Last updated2020-08-08T10:38:43



81162 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 52, #1 of 1097 🔗

I posted on yesterday’s LS comment section about a F***book (whoops!) thread I’d commented on where one of the responses was ‘I’d rather believe the combined wisdom of WHO than one person with a degree’.

Update – after a couple more exchanges the following comment was made “In what on earth (sic!) could you possibly have a degree when you clearly DON’T know what you’re talking about and demonstrate that you lack even basic knowledge?”

So. Stating a TRUE fact (I HAVE a degree in Microbiology!), the response is that! This is what fact and data driven arguments are met with, and one of the main reasons why emotive and emotionally driven fact free and date free narratives can be disseminated by the government, and BELIEVED!

I’m staggered.


81163 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to DavidC, 30, #2 of 1097 🔗

The irrationality is all around us. All we can do is be rational, be positive and be true to the culture of our forebears that has given us so much wonderful freedom.

81165 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 34, #3 of 1097 🔗

Sadly Johnson is being irrational, promoting negative thinking and totally destroying our beautiful legacy of freedom.

81170 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to OKUK, 11, #4 of 1097 🔗

Right on both comments, and many thanks for them!


81167 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to DavidC, 40, #5 of 1097 🔗

As someone with multiple degrees and a professional degree I can only feel your pain! My usual response to similar situations is along the lines of “a good scientist is one who relies only on his own analysis; if you choose to belive someone else’s words as to what is better for you, you are no better than a pet for which the owner makes all decisions and gives the pet an illusion of free will. And if that’s the case, we have nothing to discuss.” A wise man knows when to walk away 😉

81169 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to IMoz, 7, #6 of 1097 🔗

You’re absolutely right!. I’ve responded to that comment (and another similar one) saying that my mind is open to persuasion if they can present facts, data and links. Unlikely(!) so those are my final comments to them both, I won’t try to engage them any further. Why I should continue to be surprised by completely closed minds like that I don’t know, but I do.


81173 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to DavidC, 17, #7 of 1097 🔗

Exactly, true scientist admits the possibility of being wrong, which is why every time someone says to me “look this paper proves, let’s say, masks are useful”… So I might be wrong, I read it… then point out that the study was, for example, ruined by the unadjusted use of TamiFlu (there is one study that Royal Society relied on and they spelled out that they administered TamiFlu and didn’t bother adjusting for it, and the RS actually used that study in support of masks (well, as well as many other patently flawed ones!)) I mean seriously, wtf—you’d have thought if you are putting your reputation on the line at least you bother to read the thing yourself?!

81176 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to IMoz, 18, #8 of 1097 🔗

Spot on IMoz.

There were several occasions in the last part of my career (I describe it as doing exactly that, careering from one thing to another) where I was introduced to people, to be met with ‘Oh, you’re the legend DavidC’ (well, my surname was used!). My response was always the same , ‘Er, no, I think you mean the leg end DavidC’.

A lack of self confidence has always been the bane and downside of my career, but the upside (I think, if there is one!) has always been a questioning mind and not taking things at face value. I’d rather have the morality, integrity and freedom to think over the money and being confined to a certain way of thinking.

More fool me…


81974 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to DavidC, 1, #9 of 1097 🔗

A questioning mind is at the heart of it all! When you question, you are also liberated by mistakes you might make/made:its a process of learning!

81365 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to IMoz, 2, #10 of 1097 🔗

The Royal Society is a corrupt organisation. The clue is in the name.

81765 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Rowan, #11 of 1097 🔗


82786 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cambridge N, #12 of 1097 🔗

That Krishnawhatsit chap, spoke in favour of masking. Bent as nine bob notes.

81373 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to IMoz, 8, #13 of 1097 🔗

This is exactly what horrifies the still in sofar enlightend people since March, and why hundreds of thousands of them took to streets in Berlin last Saturday, and will do so again on 29.8.
All they want, is that alternative viewpoints, studies, research and true science by renowned experts are published in the mainstream media and acknowledged by decision makers before making their decisions, instead of just being diffamated, or ignored or censored.
And then, these experts should debate their thesis’ with the government’s ones, in public.
Those who have the more convincing arguments will then automatically and fairly have shaped public opinion and government policy by having won the scientific argument- which is currently simply not taking place and as such not existing!

The problem of us enlightend and truly liberal and truly scientific people is, that the other side is not in interested in that approach, true science, a compromise, or best-practice at all- and that most of their audience and our compatriots are judt fine with that as they have been successfully dumbed down, frightened and brainwashed by them already.
They are fanatical ideologues and leaders and part of a crowd of as such like-minded people who have thereby alone lost their ability to do critical thinking (Lebon), which makes a debate completely impossible.
We must realize that and start acting accordingly, from Corona, via climate change, BLM, cancel culture etc. to Antifa as well as to any such right-wing intolerance.

81422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #14 of 1097 🔗

Agreed, Jay

A huge part of the problem in UK academia and public service is Common Purpose. They don’t do ‘convincing arguments shaping public opinion’. This is what makes them a serious threat.

81802 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to IMoz, 3, #15 of 1097 🔗

You don’t need a degree- just critical faculties and actually to use them. As for the WHO, even if you’re prepared to accept their ‘wisdom ‘ without challenge, that doesn’t help when they contradict themselves. But that’s why there’s no such thing as they Science’ – it should be constantly evolving and updated in the face of real data

82162 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Telpin, #16 of 1097 🔗

I totally agree—quite a lot of the time, especially recently, the degree is more of an indoctrination and a hindrance than ability to critically think. It’s one of the reasons why I just set out my argument and evidence, and don’t say “listen to me because I have X degree, Y degree, and a Z degree” 😉

Luckily. I did my first degree when the tutors would tell you to f*ck off and find the answer yourself or fail; nowadays, spoon-feeding is not only the norm, but expected. Even back in 00s access to information was limites, nowadays, if you’re keen, you can easity find pretty much everything only, just need the brain to filter wheat from chaff 😉

81820 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to IMoz, 2, #17 of 1097 🔗

Yes, ‘In God we trust, all others must provide data.’

81172 ▶▶ nfw, replying to DavidC, 4, #18 of 1097 🔗

You are staggered by lies from government? I’m shocked!

81175 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to nfw, 17, #19 of 1097 🔗


I’m staggered (albeit why should I be these days?!) that a (TRUE!) declaration of my qualifications and fact and data driven arguments continue to be met with disbelief or denial by people, those same people who believe the fact free and data free narratives by the government. As for the lies by government itself, oh no, I’m never staggered by those!


81182 ▶▶ annie, replying to DavidC, 18, #20 of 1097 🔗

That moron must have a pretty agile (non)-mind if s/he can go on believing the WHO.
Masks are unnecessary for the masses.
Masks are recommended for the masses.
Sweden is wrong.
Sweden isn’t necessarily wrong.
The sun rises in the East.
The sun rises in the West.

81643 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to annie, 2, #21 of 1097 🔗

It’s definitely not a good idea to assume, as I assume the Facebook poster does, that the WHO is an utterly impartial, unbiased, incorruptible and all-knowing organisation – especially given their record with the 2009 swine flu epidemic.

81192 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to DavidC, 8, #22 of 1097 🔗

They probably have no idea what microbiology is. Probably are even unsure what biology is.

81221 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to DressageRider, 13, #23 of 1097 🔗

Is Biology the study of people who like to have sex with both genders?

81410 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DressageRider, 2, #24 of 1097 🔗

They certainly have idea of the difference between bacteria and a virus.

81210 ▶▶ mjr, replying to DavidC, 17, #25 of 1097 🔗

never been a f*c*book or twatter user before. recently i have started to look at twatter for updates on the football transfer rumours. Even on that subject some of the comments clearly show that most users are deranged .
So on important subjects such as covid . climate change .. anything really, it is so depressing that people are equally deranged and fact and logic goes out of the window,
But it is treated so reverentially. The MSM do not help. For any event BBC in particular will quote tweets from non entities as if these are incisive and important statements.. and they have let the twitter storms drive the MSM narrative.
So sad

81545 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to mjr, #26 of 1097 🔗

Quoting twitter comments should simply be against BBC rules. Every day we hear “one user tweeted… another said…” Local TV news are particularly bad at this.

81264 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to DavidC, 2, #27 of 1097 🔗

a bit off subject but, can I borrow your collective expertise;
If someone has no symptoms and are asymptomatic were they already effectively immune?
If 80% of people who get the virus are asymptomatic could it be said that over 50 million Brits already had natural immunity?

81294 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Major Panic, 7, #28 of 1097 🔗

I would say that this is what people have been talking about in terms of T Cell immunity and immunity conferred by other coronaviruses. And to my mind if you encounter a virus and shake it off without illness, are asymptomatic, you are not unwell. Some one on here wrote that at any one time we are infected with 8 to 12 viruses but not ill just fighting them off.

81415 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to wendy, 3, #29 of 1097 🔗

Thanks Wendy, yep the definition of immunity is…
In biology, immunity is the capability of multicellular organisms to resist harmful microorganisms. Immunity involves both specific and nonspecific components. The nonspecific components act as barriers or eliminators of a wide range of pathogens irrespective of their antigenic make-up.

So if 80% of people are asymptomatic then its reasonable to say 80% of the UK (over 50 million people) were already immune to covid19?

81279 ▶▶ wendy, replying to DavidC, 27, #30 of 1097 🔗

News article after article in The Telegraph and Spectator calmly and sensibly make the obvious case for following Sweden whilst here in Manchester the local authorities want to shut all pubs and bars who allow young people to mix and in Preston the council are calling young people Granny killers. Let’s hope the demonstrations in Germany catch on here ASAP. I have totally had enough of all the stupidity here. We need a strong leader in Government and if Boris can’t do it he must go.

81311 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to wendy, 7, #31 of 1097 🔗

totally agree wendy! it’s completely bonkers. our demonstrations seem to be a bit limp compared to the one in berlin recently. I’m in SW and bit far from london to attend protest and doesn’t seem to be much down here.

81348 ▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Sue, 6, #32 of 1097 🔗

Sue: Quick! I’m in the SW too. My son told me yesterday that there is some kind of demo in Plymouth today, but I don’t have any details.

81413 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Sue, 2, #33 of 1097 🔗

This is what we need! A few more sensible women in charge

81370 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to wendy, 8, #34 of 1097 🔗

Clearly Boris can’t do it. He is the reason we are where we are now.

81714 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to wendy, #35 of 1097 🔗

Let him abandon the withdrawal agreement/transition period first then resign. No way his successor could backtrack on Brexit then, if the transition period ended early due to no agreement being foreseen within the remaining period.

81827 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to wendy, 3, #36 of 1097 🔗

We don’t need another Leader we need a passionate follower of Common Sense.

82024 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to wendy, 1, #37 of 1097 🔗

Perhaps Preston council can name the grannies who the young people have killed.
And as men are at greater risk than women, aren’t they also being very sexist as well as liars??

81341 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to DavidC, 28, #38 of 1097 🔗

At least these are online conversations. What is really depressing is friends. A girl I’ve known for nearly fifty years (obviously not a girl any more, but she was when I first met her) – anything but a lockdown sceptic. Guardian reader, in fact. I wrote her a long email pointing out facts and where to find them. She replied “If you can’t cope with friends who do not share your views no wonder you fall out with your friends.” But covid is more than just a difference in views. It’s because of people’s horrifying lack of curiosity that we’re in this mess. Governments couldn’t do this to us if more people took the trouble to glance at the Internet. And covid hangs over every conversation. For example we’ve both had travel plans disrupted. But even that isn’t a neutral topic because she thinks it’s the price to pay for staying safe whereas I – don’t get me started.

81527 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Jane in France, 10, #39 of 1097 🔗

What a bizarre response from your ‘friend ‘! I note she didn’t in any way try to debate your facts/sources, going instead for you in a personal/emotional way. That’s is what you get all the time with people like that.

81835 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, 1, #40 of 1097 🔗

You can’t educate pork!

81965 ▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to DavidC, 3, #41 of 1097 🔗

I had my own family questioning what qualify ‘us’ to make a judgement! I have a Bsc in Genetics (dept. Medicine), an MSc in Biotechnologies (dept. Microbiology); other half has BSc and a PhD in Genetics and a DipM ( Marketing:Data Analysis).

I’m beyond staggered. I’m bloo.. livid!

I have a childhood friend who studied law, she is equally demonised!

82193 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Che Strazio, 2, #42 of 1097 🔗

Thank you for your comment.

I went through a ‘black dog’ phase a few weeks ago thinking ‘Is it ME? Have I missed something?’ Thanks to comments such as yours (and respect to your extra qualifications and your other half’s as well, as well as your friend’s!) and those of Lockdown Sceptics, it’s made me feel that maybe my/our viewpoint(s) ARE correct and valid. I have the benefit of being semi retired (I refer to myself as unemployable!) and thus in thrall to NO ONE, being able to base my viewpoint on what I genuinely hope is unbiased and fact driven analysis. But, by heavens, that belief has been stretched to its limit by the mass hysteria surrounding Covid-19. I have Charles McKay’s ‘Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds’ – a thoroughly recommended book even if the language is most assuredly 19th century!


82021 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to DavidC, 2, #43 of 1097 🔗

The WHO, led by a man who was the health minister for Ethiopia, who lied to the rest of the world and his own people about a cholera outbreak.
He only admitted that there was an outbreak when it spread to neighbouring countries and started killing people there. Up until then, he’d insisted it was just “watery diarrhoea” and not cholera.
The WHO also denies the existence of Taiwan.

If they told me the sky was blue, I’d want to double check for myself.

81164 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 41, #44 of 1097 🔗

That’s a wonderful shot of the beach goers. Keep packing them in and enjoy your lives!

81166 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Eddie, 20, #45 of 1097 🔗

Another way of putting it is: ”fuckem”! 🙂

81260 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Eddie, 6, #46 of 1097 🔗

Isn’t it just, a shame Toby didn’t reference the fact there was no spikes or anything the last time they all wet themselves when people went to the beach.

81658 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Mark II, 3, #47 of 1097 🔗

I thought that too… probably the most important point. If beachgoers didn’t cause a detectable rise in cases nearly 2 months ago, they certainly won’t now!

81300 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Eddie, 8, #48 of 1097 🔗

What do they expect? Government cancel all summer holidays abroad and people will go to local beaches.

81909 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #49 of 1097 🔗

Exactly. The local councils should have realised that and had facilities like extra litter bins all ready to cope. Would have been a better investment than all those ridiculous stickers and pavement-widening paraphernalia.

81315 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Eddie, 5, #50 of 1097 🔗

absolutely – i see the picture and thing ‘good on ’em’ – go and enjoy your life and poke the pathetic naysayers in the eye. I’m not much of a beach person myself or crowds and it wouldn’t be my cup of tea but for those who like it fair enough, go enjoy while you can!!

81477 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Eddie, 2, #51 of 1097 🔗

I thought it was a good example of telephoto lens use!!

81171 nfw, replying to nfw, 21, #52 of 1097 🔗

Let me see the best number I can find for the UK population is 67,920,084 https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/uk-population/ . So for 46,364 deaths that would be 0.07% or the fact 99.93% haven’t died of the Chinese Wuhan Virus Flu.

81178 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nfw, 3, #53 of 1097 🔗

According to my calculator it’s 0.0006764706%. Add another zero.

81321 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to richard riewer, 4, #54 of 1097 🔗

Or maybe you’re another one who doesn’t understand percentages. The answer is 0.068262577, i.e. about 0.07, as nfw posted!

81179 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nfw, 1, #55 of 1097 🔗

Scratch that, add two more zeros.

81271 ▶▶▶ PFD, replying to richard riewer, #56 of 1097 🔗

I would get a new calculator! You need to multiply your first number you quote above by 100 and not divide by 100!

81783 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to PFD, #57 of 1097 🔗

I multiplied 68,000,000 times .0007 and the answer was 46,000.

81180 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nfw, #58 of 1097 🔗

I just performed the same calculation online. Same result.

81324 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to richard riewer, 1, #59 of 1097 🔗

And still wrong.

81181 ▶▶ BobT, replying to nfw, 16, #60 of 1097 🔗

You are correct but a clearer way of presenting this and avoiding the confusion about percentages and fractions is that of the 67,920,084 people in the UK, 67,873,720 did not die from or with SARS CoV-2 infection.

81214 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to BobT, 2, #61 of 1097 🔗

Send that to Boris.

81335 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to richard riewer, #62 of 1097 🔗

Please don’t. It might make it more comprehensible for BJ if you told him that fewer than 7 people in ten thousand died. Except you would have told him fewer than 7 in a million. Or 42 people, if UK population c. 60M. He’d have liked that.

81343 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #63 of 1097 🔗

420! Or, if you were adding your two zeros, 7 in 100 million, or 4 people in the UK. Even better.

81380 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 5, #64 of 1097 🔗

Sorry Richard, afraid the temptation for the answer to be 42 was just too great, forgive me!

81379 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to richard riewer, 6, #65 of 1097 🔗

Boris will claim that his lockdowns have saved the rest of us. There is a turd where his brain should be.

81764 ▶▶▶▶ BobT, replying to richard riewer, #66 of 1097 🔗

Nah, he will think its his bank statement

81243 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to BobT, 9, #67 of 1097 🔗

And so far this year in England and Wales 330k people have died from other things that have nothing to do with Covid.

Also worldwide Covid deaths (with or from) make up only 2% of the total deaths so far this year

81798 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Hubes, 1, #68 of 1097 🔗

We should send them tweets , emails, instagrams and whatever else with soundtracks of people laughing hysterically. Maybe a few jokes thrown in for good measure.

81261 ▶▶ Samantha, replying to nfw, 3, #69 of 1097 🔗

Plus the 46k is about to be reduced as surprise surprise PHE have been manipulating the numbers

81382 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Samantha, 5, #70 of 1097 🔗

Knock about 46K off the total and it will be about right.

81297 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to nfw, 5, #71 of 1097 🔗

South Park 2003, SARS1, remember that one? The same LAME virus then that we are all terrified of now.
“There is only a 98% chance that I will live.”

81374 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to nfw, 2, #72 of 1097 🔗

Neither have 46,364 died of Covid-19 that is a fairy tale.

81862 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to nfw, 1, #73 of 1097 🔗

And isn’t the annual all mortality figure about 600,000, so just under 1% of the population?

81174 JimByJovi, replying to JimByJovi, 10, #74 of 1097 🔗

Somebody was talking yesterday about Cummings and his trip Up North. I was in two minds: on the one hand I was glad and hoped folk would see the “great and the good” paid it (lockdown) no never mind.
On the other, it seemed like hypocrisy to acquiesce in the face of what he did.
In the end, I came to the conclusion that we shouldn’t worry about such things – most people are idiots as has been shown recently. Anything that supports the cause (and isn’t Icke levels of batshit crazy) is a good thing – the means justifies the ends.
Last word goes to Abe Lincoln (the original Republican): “I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”

81298 ▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to JimByJovi, 2, #75 of 1097 🔗

Thanks for the Lincoln quote, Jim. So very apt for us lot in Britain at the moment. Unfortunately.

81389 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to JimByJovi, 3, #76 of 1097 🔗

Icke is much nearer the mark than most, that doesn’t bode well for our future.

81434 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to JimByJovi, 1, #77 of 1097 🔗

“Icke levels of batshit crazy” ? Do fuck off, JBJ.

81680 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to JohnB, 3, #78 of 1097 🔗

It’s an odd thing that with the honourable exception of Sweden & Balarous all governments do seem to be acting in exactly the same way you might expect a 7ft lizard to behave!

81936 ▶▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to JohnB, #79 of 1097 🔗

Maybe I’m old skool, but it’s the lizard people I have in mind. Or is that not his thing?

81989 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JimByJovi, 1, #80 of 1097 🔗

It is his thing. He has other ideas, but that’s his core principle.

There is an underlying tension here between the “unforgivable incompetence” school and the “globalist agenda” school, with something of a Venn diagram. We bump along, but there are some occasional flair ups. You’re very welcome here, but don’t always expect agreement in every particular.

81485 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to JimByJovi, 6, #81 of 1097 🔗

While I agree with the rest of it, it should be remembered that Icke has a better predictive track record than Prof Pantsdown Ferguson

81177 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 8, #82 of 1097 🔗

Good for the sunseekers!

81184 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 24, #83 of 1097 🔗

Bournemouth declared a ‘major incident’ weeks back when people dared to sit on the beach. No doubt hundreds of locals died as a result of that outrageous behaviour. Funny it didn’t get reported, though.
What have they got now, a nuclear disaster?

81187 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 21, #84 of 1097 🔗

They always do that every time people do something – VE Day, days at the beach, BLM protests. Cue a lot of doom mongering and shrieking.

And nothing has happened. The number of people getting it and dying have been decreasing day after day and yet TPTB and many people still behave as if we’re in the middle of the zombie apocalypse! Still going on and on about a “second wave” even as the economy and what makes life worth living is collapsing in front of our eyes.

81278 ▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #85 of 1097 🔗

I found this a while back so whenever I see people complaining about beach goers ect I post this graph

81976 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to tonyspurs, #86 of 1097 🔗


81226 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to annie, 11, #87 of 1097 🔗

We were out in town yesterday evening and went down to Bournemouth pier. A friend was down from London. Even at 7 it was busy on the beach. More mixing of people but not quite cheek to jowl. Was nice though. Lots of happy kids

81832 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to mhcp, #88 of 1097 🔗

Happy kids? What is this world coming to? You better start checking out how educators are brainwashing your children or else today’s children will become a new wave of future Sheeple.

81926 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #89 of 1097 🔗

I understood that in Bournemouth’s case, “major incident” meant that the council were struggling to cope with the sheer volume of people who’d arrived with cars and litter.

Manchester’s “major incident” however is something more sinister – unless they have an exceptional number of Karens and snitchers over there, in which case there could be civil war.

82271 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to annie, #90 of 1097 🔗

What would these locals tell the businesses who rely on visitors ? It’s a local shop ,cafe, boozer, chippie for local people.

81183 annie, replying to annie, 75, #91 of 1097 🔗

Been looking at comments on the Preston farce in the Daily Fail. This one is typical:

“We want our Lives back. Stop trying to pretend these measures have stopped the Flu! It has to progress through the population, as it used to. Now our lives are being wrecked because a few, a very few, die! No point in being alive like this. Lets caked [ presumably means ‘wake’ ] up or being threatened with being locked up! All to cover up the massive cock up by Stasi Govt. Where are our MPs in all this? Theyre supposed to represent us, not just hide at home allowing these stupid Fear Addicts to wreck our lives. Its not Living, being threatened with Imprisonment. In Solitary Confinement fir many of us! No better than North Korea or such Dictatorships! We are Prisoners!”

Go read and uptick, it’s encouraging!

81193 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to annie, 2, #93 of 1097 🔗


81194 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #94 of 1097 🔗

Well said. Should be circulated more!

81868 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to annie, 2, #95 of 1097 🔗

That’s well said. We shouldn’t be living in fear for a tiny extra risk of death over our lifetime. This country, like many others, has become spineless and pathetic. The worst thing about it is that if we hadn’t had Covid all the moral high ground bedwetting types would have been happy to carry on spreading the flu virus every winter.

81186 R G, replying to R G, 9, #96 of 1097 🔗

I’m 15 minutes down the road from Preston. I hope the lockdown infection doesn’t spread because it will finish off this town.

81215 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to R G, 3, #97 of 1097 🔗


81225 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #98 of 1097 🔗

Lockdown is being spoken of as a sickly purile virus in ots own right by R G. A brain virus I dare say.

Fear spreads like a virus. Only its now looking like the absurdity of these lock ups is causing immunity to lockaway peddling.

81189 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 56, #99 of 1097 🔗

Knowing what we know now, knew by 06 Feb, hands up who thinks, in any conceivable scenario, that covid 19, a common cold coronavirus, could have killed 1.5 million people in this country? And how many think a collateral death toll of 16,000 is even close to the truth?

The people writing these reports are fanatical lunatics. We have some kind of education and training system in place that is turning out the batshit crazy in their millions.

The beyond silly ‘precautionary principle’ (remember pictures of mandatory flag men walking in front of early automobiles in this country waving red warning flags?That is the precautionary principle) is being used to kill, maim and otherwise injure, mentally and physically, generations of this country’s population because no-one at a senior level within Whitehall has the balls to point out, even now, at this late stage of staggeringly obvious anticlimax, that the emperor has no clothes.

81289 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Tim Bidie, 24, #100 of 1097 🔗

Agreed. However, the cause of this brainwashing is bigger than the education system alone. As an adult over the last decade I have beensubjected to psychological training telling me to ignore what my eyes and deductive brain tell me. No longer am I allowed to have faith that 2+2=4, and if someone decides that 2+2=7 then both must be correct. Thankfully I, and probably all of you, are stubborn enough to be immune to this.
There are many attack vectors for the brainwashing. If you are stupid enough to watch soaps then that is an obvious big attack vector along with MSM “news” and comedy.
For me, I have found that work has been a growing attack vector (probably the biggest). For example, my company is regarded (and awarded) as one of the most diverse companies in the UK and equality is at their core. However, following BLM, they have now declared that they are racist organisation, and as an employee I now hear no end of it. Positive discrimination is now going to go into overdrive. Employees implicitly trust their seniors and lap this shit up. Eventually they start to automatically think the same way. I openly challenge this crap, and somehow get away with it. Note that I am myself generally liberal and against discrimination in anything other than ability.
There is a pattern that I have seen in multiple organisations. This crap at work is invariably conceived by common purpose “graduates”. The seeds were sown by new labour and they are now ready for harvest. It appears the same was happening abroad.
We have as a country been systematically reprogrammed. I regret not seeing this earlier, having assumed that everyone else hadn’t been completely taken in. Turns out that I had overrated many seemingly intelligent people.
I think we are unfortunately in the new normal and the coronapanic madness is the first big example, to be superseded by other collective madness, until someone presses the red button (perhaps to cure coronovirus).
Sorry, that ended being much more of a rant than intended.

81304 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TheBluePill, 12, #101 of 1097 🔗

I totally agree, I have been acutely aware of how the brainwashing works for literally the last 20 years. Talking about it has put me firmly in the crazy conspiracy theorist camp with everybody I know.. Well, I was right all along but I am STILL a crazy conspiracy theorist.

81338 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TheBluePill, 6, #102 of 1097 🔗

That was the intention of Blair’s drive to have 50% of children go to unversity.The majority come out as brainwashed drones and then common purpose finishes the job,by marking out leaders and brainwashing them.The soaps then push the same messages and that takes care of the working classes.Very few people are immune this spirit of the age

81376 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #103 of 1097 🔗

This is what SAGE were using 31 March:
‘Annex G: Comparison to unmitigated scenario:
In this section we show the results of comparing the total deaths expected over 12 months with the CSS as compared to the “unmitigated Reasonable Worst Case (RWC) Scenario 31st March”. This is a scenario provided to SAGE to represent what might feasibly have occurred if no changes occurred to reduce the spread of the virus, such as through social distancing measures and other non-pharmaceutical interventions. The results are shown in the table below.
Table 53 Comparison with “unmitigated RWC scenario 31st March”
Comparison with unmitigated RWC scenario
Health impact category CSS (covers 12 months from Mar ‘20 to Mar ’21) Unmitigated RWC Scenario 31st March
A. Direct impact from COVID-19 85,000 COVID-19 deaths
(12 months from March 2020 to end March 2021)
We estimate that around 67,000 of those are
excess deaths.
700,000 years of life lost.
530,000 QALYs lost
504,000 COVID-19
439,000 (410,000 to 454,000) excess deaths
4,000,000 (2,700,000 to
5,100,000) years of life lost.
3,000,000 (2,800,000 to 3,500,000) QALYs lost
Comparing this to the mitigated scenario suggests 420,000 COVID-19 deaths would have occurred if mitigations were not
put in place. Of this, we estimate that around 380,000 would be excess deaths, equivalent to 2,500,000 QALYs.
B. Health outcomes for COVID-19 worsened
because of lack of NHS critical care capacity
No impact 1,100,000 COVID-19 deaths
Up to 1,000,000 (900,000 to 1,010,000) excess deaths
11,000,000 (8,600,000 to 15,000,000) years of
life lost
7,400,000 (5,400,000 to 9,600,000) QALYs lost
These are the indirect deaths from COVID-19 due to insufficient critical care beds. We estimate up to 1.1M additional deaths, or
up to 1M excess deaths This takes into account the additional beds that were made available through Nightingale hospitals and
cancelling non-urgent care.
These excess deaths represent up to 9M to 15M years of life lost and 6M to 10M QALYs lost
It is important to note that the estimates for health impacts in Category C and D have not been developed for the unmitigated RWC. It is reasonable to assume a very significant impact Category C, as hospitals would be over-run with COVID-19 patients. The economic impacts are unclear.
Comparing the total impact across Categories A and B suggests that lives saved due to mitigations could total up to 1.5m. This estimate does not include Category C and D deaths, which without mitigation would also be higher in the short-term.
However, this is a very limited comparison and many other factors have not been considered; it is difficult to know whether mitigating the pandemic may lead to impacts over a longer term and therefore greater impacts on the economy and the healthcare system.
For further information on the methodology to estimate the excess deaths in the unmitigated scenario in categories A and B, see annexes A and B.’

81524 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #104 of 1097 🔗

The precautionary principle goes hand-in-hand with the R2P protocol. Right to Protect. This says that the international community must react to “threats”. This R2p doctrine was used to justify the sacking of Libya and Syria. “Carbon” emissions also will fall under this framework. The idea that a country is threatening their neighbours with too much “carbon” or a biological hazard will demand international intervention.

81871 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Two-Six, 3, #105 of 1097 🔗

The irony is that if the govt believed in the precautionary principle then they would have spent far more on the NHS so it was properly prepared for a pandemic, the chance of which is 100% at some point. Lockdown was probably not about precaution but naked panic and fear, and saving the govt rather than the NHS.

81944 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #106 of 1097 🔗

Doesn’t seem to have worked for either!

81956 ▶▶▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #107 of 1097 🔗

The NHS is somewhat wrecked, but unfortunately the govt is intact. Even the anti-Brexit types who didn’t trust Johnson over prorogation seem more than happy for him to lockdown the country and inflict draconian laws.

81673 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #108 of 1097 🔗

I’m struggling to imagine where they got that 1.5 million figure. Even Ferguson’s infamous prediction was only a third of that. Maybe it’s based on the average global CFR which I think is around 3.5% (still probably exaggerated and not the same as the IFR which is less than a tenth of that at most)

It feels like the precautionary principle ought to be the other way round now. There may be a small chance of a devastating second wave if all the science somehow turns out to be incorrect, or the virus suddenly mutates – but this is set against the certainty of all the social, physical mental and health, economic and cultural damage that’s being done and is only getting worse.

81914 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Drawde927, 1, #109 of 1097 🔗

You dont need to struggle, the figures are in the Annexe G to the SAGE paper which I copied in its entirety above, it’s the total of Categories A and B.

81948 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, #110 of 1097 🔗

For supposedly eminent scientists and qualified medics, they seem to have little idea how bodies and microbes actually work.
I think I could have done better just with what I learned for O-Level biology.

81190 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #111 of 1097 🔗

‘Evidence indicates markedly higher mortality risk from COVID-19 among Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) groups, but deaths are not consistent across BAME groups.’

‘It is important to note that compared to the White British population per capita deaths are markedly greater in Indian, Other Black, Black Caribbean and Other Ethnic group’

‘…and they are markedly greater in Black Caribbean and Black Other groups compared to all other ethnicities (except ‘Other ethnic group’). For example, per capita, Black Caribbean deaths are over twice those of Bangladeshi and Pakistani populations.’

CEBM 05 May 2020


‘It is known that second and third generation ethnic immigrants may not understand the vulnerability of their infants to tuberculosis and this may result in withholding consent for BCG vaccination. Similarly, infants born of a mixed marriage may not be recognised as being eligible for selective neonatal BCG vaccination.’

‘Infants of Indian sub-continental origin (ISC) were significantly more likely to have been vaccinated than non-ISC infants (ISC 70% v non-ISC 29%).’


Of course this is not proof but, if this site is about anything, it is about common sense:

‘The current evidence about BCG vaccination and prevention of acute respiratory infections is of high quality, as it is supported by results from 2 systematic reviews (one including meta-analysis) and 4 RCTs, which provide high level of evidence for prevention studies’

CEBM 23 April 2020

‘….we compared countries that mandated BCG vaccination until at least 2000 with countries that did not. To minimize any systematic effects of reporting biases, we analyzed the rate of the day-by-day increase in both confirmed cases (134 countries) and deaths (135 countries) in the first 30-day period of country-wise outbreaks. The 30-day window was adjusted to begin at the country-wise onset of the pandemic. Linear mixed models revealed a significant effect of mandated BCG policies on the growth rate of both cases and deaths after controlling for median age, gross domestic product per capita, population density, population size, net migration rate, and various cultural dimensions (e.g., individualism). Our analysis suggests that mandated BCG vaccination can be effective in the fight against COVID-19.’ 31 July 2020


81191 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #112 of 1097 🔗

This was suggested some time ago but as usual with our media nothing was followed up. Scaremongering is what they do best!

81197 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #113 of 1097 🔗

They honestly cant cope with nuanced stories, so much easier to write something sensational and wrong.

81950 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #114 of 1097 🔗

I’s because they tend to work with press releases. Lazy journalism.

81195 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 11, #115 of 1097 🔗

I have a question:

Looking at the average age of a ‘Covid’ death and range of co-morbidities, wouldn’t most of them have been in the shielding category? If so, how did they get Covid outside of nosocomial settings?

‘Official’ deaths in care homes seem to be around 15,000 and around 33,000 in hospitals:


I guess we will never know but I would love to know how many would have tested negative before attending hospital.

81217 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sarigan, 1, #116 of 1097 🔗
81220 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 2, #117 of 1097 🔗

They care homes vs hospital deaths numbers will likely also disguise a number of people who were in a care home but then transferred into hospital when they got very sick.

81951 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #118 of 1097 🔗

I thought once they got very sick they were DNR’d.

81327 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Sarigan, 3, #119 of 1097 🔗

Is the answer not simply that we don’t actually know how viruses spread? Strange as it may sound, we have yet to gain a proper scientific understanding of how viruses spread. We have some notions, but not much more.

Which is why everything is so completely incoherent. Governments have set themselves the impossible task of protecting us against a virus without having any real clue how to do it or even whether it can be done simply with the right public policy.

Sadly we are the guinea pigs in this immoral and grotesque social experiment.

81334 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to stewart, 2, #120 of 1097 🔗

We are. From what I can see, nothing will stop the spread but can only slow it down to some extent. Masks, quarantine, social distancing, lockdowns etc. None of it makes the slightest bit of difference in the long run. It is going to happen, delay all you want but you won’t stop it so work on treatments, protect the most vulnerable as best as possible, be healthy and keep living.

81455 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Sarigan, 1, #121 of 1097 🔗

A lot would have been shuttling between hospital and care home on a fairly regular basis. This is why I think it’s wrong for people to argue for ignoring how many of them tested positive for CV 19 at point of death. We need to know that it was widespread in the general population (their visitors, carers, nurses, doctors) for whom it wasn’t a big deal, to get a true picture of how that affects this frail population.

81504 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bruno, 3, #122 of 1097 🔗

Keep it out of the hospitals, treat with HCQ early on first suspicion and it is less dangerous than seasonal flu.

81636 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Sarigan, 3, #123 of 1097 🔗

None of it makes the slightest bit of difference in the long run… or in the short run.

Spain and Belgium have the strictest mask policies in Europe (must be worn indoors and outdoors) and their measured infection rates are as high as anyone else’s and have in fact increased since the mandates.

The implementation of lockdowns and masks don’t seem to correlate at all with a reduction in deaths or infections.

81954 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, 2, #124 of 1097 🔗

That’s because the lockdowns and masks haven’t been about a virus.

81496 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Sarigan, 3, #125 of 1097 🔗

Singapore got its Nosocomial infection rate down to statistical zero in March.

81803 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Nessimmersion, #126 of 1097 🔗

Thank you very much for this link – EVERYONE should read it, his conclusions on nappy-wearing are inescapable.

81847 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RichardJames, #127 of 1097 🔗

Need to spread the word, keep reposting etc

81198 Biker, replying to Biker, 66, #128 of 1097 🔗

Go out enjoy the summer and fuck the government. Line them fuckers up agains the wall and offer them choice, a firing squad or get off our fucking backs. I’ll decided how i live and where i go not you and also i’m not responsible if someone gets sick. Never have been in the past and i won’t be in the future. The government has overreached massively and i’m happy people feel this and are doing what they want. This madness must stop now. Time to fight back, no mask, no social distance, no name, no number, no tests and no fucking quarantine.

81202 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Biker, 51, #129 of 1097 🔗

Agree with you, never before have we had a narrative which states that we are responsible for other people’s health so we must totally upend our own lives to stop passing on a disease. It’s this insidious focus on saving others that invalidates the perfectly legitimate argument that health is a matter of weighing up personal risk. We are not responsible for other people’s health outcomes to the extent that the government are making out with the lockdown.

81604 ▶▶▶ Adrian Wallace, replying to Poppy, 1, #130 of 1097 🔗

Amazingly powerful statement. Couldn’t agree more.

81684 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Adrian Wallace, 4, #131 of 1097 🔗

Feeling more or less the same myself now (can’t even honestly bring myself to disagree with the firing squad bit). I don’t have any confidence in this government to get us out of this mess, or for the Opposition or most of the media to hold them to account. The only way is for individuals (and organisations) to stand up to it.

81203 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Biker, 28, #132 of 1097 🔗

Well said. We are responsible for our own lives and not for everyone else’s, as for those who bang on about “protecting the NHS” well they exist to serve us not the other way around. If they can’t cope then reform is needed to make sure they can.

81218 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 8, #133 of 1097 🔗

I would offer no choice Biker, firing squad.

81219 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Winston Smith, 10, #134 of 1097 🔗

And then they’ll get off our fucking backs.

81238 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #135 of 1097 🔗

I don’t hate these people i pity them. These fools think they know enough so they can lead us to the promised land. I’m no Moses but if you followed me you’d at least be on the road and living. I’m sick to death of them telling us one thing and millions of us ignoring them and doing what we want. Time for us who want to get at it to take control. You just need to ignore their rules best you can, tell everyone who asks your position on the matter and go about your day.

81649 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Biker, 5, #136 of 1097 🔗

Pity them is right, until you see them bullying or even assaulting someone for disagreeing with them. Then the pity ends and the hatred begins.

82042 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Biker, 1, #137 of 1097 🔗

They deserve hate and worse. They have murdered thousands by their cowardice and stupidity.

81257 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 2, #138 of 1097 🔗

Why offer a choice? Well, hung or shot might be ok.

82161 ▶▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to annie, #139 of 1097 🔗

Well hung or shot?? Not sure that I like the sound of that! (insert smiley)

81396 ▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to Biker, 10, #140 of 1097 🔗

Couldn’t agree more. Look at the state of our country/the world. Most people normally dont give a shit about their own health and either live with and/or eventually die from preventable illness, preventable if they took moderate responsibility for their own health. But all of a sudden everyone has to stick their nose in and take charge of OTHER people’s health. I am responsible for my health and in part for those dependent on me at home. No one else. Leave me alone, sheep.

81419 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Biker, 1, #141 of 1097 🔗

Thank you; your comments are keeping me sane.

82039 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Biker, 1, #142 of 1097 🔗

Amen to all that and no fucking vaccine.

82222 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Biker, 1, #143 of 1097 🔗

Obviously I agree with you but it isn’t the case that people have never before been held responsible if others get sick. I worry about this because I am genuinely concerned that if the UK continues on this path it’s only time before someone is charged with recklessly infecting someone with covid.
There were rumblings of it being threatened in MSM when they covered the recent story of Belly Mujinga (google it -her death is v sad but not a crime).
The most obvious parallel is hiv – according to wiki as of June 2006 seven people in England and Wales have been convicted for transmitting hiv recklessly (under existing assault law). I don’t know about any other diseases but I fear we may be on this path.

81199 TJN, replying to TJN, 40, #144 of 1097 🔗

From the various reports from far and wide and from the comments on here, it appears to me that the lockdown and muzzle zealots – here in the UK and throughout the world – are becoming ever more hyperbolic, extremist and aggressive in their words and actions.

Meanwhile, the steady flow of facts and figures is all going the Sceptics’ way – like some massive tide flowing in among the rocks; unseen almost, but steady and relentless. And the top public comments in Conservative publications like the Spectator , Telegraph and Mail are overwhelmingly sceptical, exhibiting bitter and increasingly widespread frustration with what is going on.

The debate is becoming increasingly polarised and ugly, and yet the grounding of fact is crumbling away from underneath the zealots – which perhaps explains their increasingly illogical and erratic behaviour. Eventually, facts are always stubborn things – as is economic mathematics.

These observations suggest to me that the hysteria is simply going to burn itself out, as a ‘tipping point’ arrives.  Predicting the timing is difficult. But it is coming.

Off to the beach today! A quiet hidden-away place, so no risk of catching or spreading anything. What a fine citizen I am.

81244 ▶▶ Richard, replying to TJN, 20, #145 of 1097 🔗

Agreed – the tone of the Telegraph / Mail coverage has shifted markedly in the last few days and comments are now overwhelming sceptical. Was at a Sainsbury’s yesterday – man struggling with his mask as strong had broken. Told him not to worry – he struggled on but came up to me at the end and said was fed up with this rubbish (second person that day) – thought government had made a massive error and now trying to cover up. Didn’t know about this site but was very happy to learn about it. I feel there is a growing momentum amongst people and it just needs a focal point / person around whom to rally.

81758 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard, #146 of 1097 🔗

Yes, with the overwhelming scepticism among those majority conservative sympathisers, how long can the current administration maintain its course? Can a Conservative PM afford to loose for long the grass roots of the party?

81256 ▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, 4, #147 of 1097 🔗

Alpine, our treasured psychiatrist, can you tell us if mass hysteria does tend to burn itself out?

81326 ▶▶▶ Alpine, replying to annie, 8, #148 of 1097 🔗

Annie, it will only shift when there’s an acceptance that the losses outweigh the gains. But that also means having to bear the guilt and shame of the destruction wrecked. I don’t think we’re even close unfortunately

81388 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Alpine, 1, #149 of 1097 🔗

Guilt? Dominic Cummings? Shame? Boris Johnson??
Actually DC did admit mistakes during the Rose Garden interview, so guilt is a possibility in his case. The latter, not.

81644 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Alpine, 4, #150 of 1097 🔗

The little dark secret propping all this up is that too many people are benefiting from it. There are too many people out there who either get paid without actually working (e.g. teachers), are working less (e.g. doctors) or who have really taken to working from home and don’t want to revert (tonnes of people).

81729 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to stewart, 1, #151 of 1097 🔗

Yes, that’s a very important point, that is all too often forgotten.

81754 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 1, #152 of 1097 🔗

A very, very important point.

81897 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to stewart, 2, #153 of 1097 🔗

I don’t think it’s being continued because the average person is enjoying it. Most are desperate to get their children back in school and go out for a meal in a pub. It’s being continued because the slow Loris and his chums made a huge mistake in not doing a Sweden, and are now busily trying to make it look like it was all to save us from Armageddon.

82200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bruno, 1, #154 of 1097 🔗

Yes, but people like Ferguson and Hancock et al. are enjoying it. And, until very recently of course, a lot of people on furlough have been happy about it. And the teaching unions have a stick to work with; and every little busybody who enjoys their moral superiority bossy other people around is happy for it to continue.

82208 ▶▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to stewart, 1, #155 of 1097 🔗

A hundred times this. This is obvious when you consider that people claim it’s too dangerous to go to the office but are going to restaurants for their subsidised lunch. It’s very hard to convince someone it’s safe to go back to work when they don’t like work.

81693 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Alpine, 1, #156 of 1097 🔗

I wonder what will happen (being optimistic here saying “when” not “if”) when the overall mood eventually changes and even the BBC, Guardian etc. have to acknowledge it? Are they going to admit they were wrong (and partly responsible themselves) or simply act as if their opinion was that way all along? I suspect the latter, journalists and papers have done this plenty of times in the past and got away with it.

There’s a rather depressingly pious (literally) article in the Times today talking about putting a value on human life in the context of Christian values, and basically taking the stance that, even though we know we’re doing more harm in the long term, anything is justifiable if it saves just one life in the short term. Maybe a valid stance (for an individual) but only if you apply it to all preventable deaths! The article writer is right that all the Covid deaths are individual people with relatives, friends etc. who will miss them – but elderly people were dying from disease and neglect in care homes before Covid, and not many people in the media spoke out for them.

81743 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Alpine, 1, #157 of 1097 🔗

I’d imagined that a large number of people would simply get bored with it all, like some really naff fad that seemed to a lot of people as a great idea at the time but quickly turned sour.

If I had to stick my neck out on timing, I’d guess that six months was a natural turnaround time – which would take us to the latter part of September.

At the start of this, back in March it seemed to me that, the actual disease effects aside, as a society we were writing our own chapter for a new edition of Mackay’s Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds . It was many years ago that I read this, but as I remember the collective delusions and hysteria often seemed to have a finite burn-out time. Seventeenth-century witch-hunt scares, which the current madness reminds me of, seemed in discrete communities to burn themselves out in a few months (although they might rumble on in he background for far longer).

I’m only guessing, as should say that I don’t have any professional background in this.

If anyone on here can recommend a good edition of Mackay’s Extraordinary Popular Delusions I’d be grateful – I want to get my own copy, but there are loads of editions on Abe Books, and it’s not clear what might be the best.

81855 ▶▶▶▶▶ djc, replying to TJN, #158 of 1097 🔗

It is long out of copyright and there are plenty of free editions for download.

try Project Gutenberg

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.” Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, Charles Mackay, 1852

81953 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to djc, #159 of 1097 🔗

Yes, I’ve seen the free editions on Google Books etc.
I thought it might be good to have a nice hardback copy.

That quote always stayed with me since I read it many years ago. Very apposite now.

81307 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TJN, 1, #160 of 1097 🔗

Make sure you lie on your front AND NO BACKSTROKE!

81746 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Two-Six, #161 of 1097 🔗

Got stung by a weever fish. Bit like a covid vaccination I’d guess.

81903 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to TJN, #162 of 1097 🔗

Remedy is to stick foot in bucket of extremely hot water. Where BJ and chums should be.

81958 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bruno, #163 of 1097 🔗

Yes, so I’m told. Trouble is, I don’t generally take hot water to the beach! There were lifeguards around today and I had a chat with them. They offered the kettle but I didn’t bother. One of them told me he’s been got about 10 times.

Johnson and his friends are going to be in very hot water before long.

81323 ▶▶ Wesley, replying to TJN, 2, #164 of 1097 🔗

Classic pattern of behaviour for a crumbling case of cognitive dissonance.

They know they’re on the ropes!

81748 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Wesley, #165 of 1097 🔗

Yes, their claims are getting ever more shrill and implausible (cf. 1.5 million deaths in today’s blog). That suggests to me the stasis may be shifting.

81339 ▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to TJN, 3, #166 of 1097 🔗

I hope you’re right, but the vast majority will only change their minds when told to do so by someone in a position of authority. Sad to say, but for the big issues such as this they do not and cannot form their own opinion.

81751 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to JimByJovi, #167 of 1097 🔗

Maybe it needs a much smaller number of opinion-formers, rather than an authority figure as such?

81200 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 25, #168 of 1097 🔗

The Preston ‘lockdown’ is pretty pathetic. Like the Northern lockdown introduced hastily on 30th July, all the restrictions now are social ones – i.e. no visiting people inside their house – rather than economic ones, such as the closure of shops or pubs. I know Scotland has gone harder with its Aberdeen lockdown but we know Sturgeon likes to do things differently from England just for the sake of it and they’re about 2 months behind us anyway because of how much she’s slowed easing down.

I think that at least in England any future local ‘lockdowns’ will consist of just these totally unenforceable social restrictions that are very easy to ignore because the government knows now that it cannot afford to shut the economy down a second time, especially with furlough scheme beginning to wind down. Of course the unthinking sheep populace or those who still support lockdown will agree with the measures and see them as effective. I hope there is a robust silent majority emerging who are beginning to see through the bullshit. I suppose these social restrictions are a sign that the government know how harmful lockdown is economically (and socially/culturally as well) but still want to be seen as authoritative and powerful, controlling the situation, and obviously they still can’t admit they made a mistake locking down fully in March because that would be the end of their precious political careers!

81204 ▶▶ matt, replying to Poppy, 14, #169 of 1097 🔗

I think that’s exactly right, poppy. It smacks, to me, of increasing desperation. A knowledge that the wheels are beginning to come off while fighting a rearguard action (mixed metaphors? Not me!) in the hope that no one will notice what’s happening.

81317 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, 11, #170 of 1097 🔗


The wheels fall off, with a bang and a puff of smoke
The doors open and close on their own
The boot lid pops up and down
The bonnet blows open with a puff of smoke and a bang
The exhaust falls off
The steering wheel comes off
The brakes don’t work
The car’s interior fills up with foam
The crank handle falls off
The bumpers fall off
The windscreen wipers start wiping
The washer jets squirt
The horn goes off randomly

The clown with a mop of blond hair and a mask falls over a few times trying to get in and out the car and chases it around the arena as if under remote control doing hidden thumb pointy gestures and waving his arms about


81631 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Two-Six, #171 of 1097 🔗

. . . at least Boris won’t need any make-up

81205 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 21, #172 of 1097 🔗

Agree with you Poppy. They have lost the plot and control ages ago and all these measures smack of a desperate need to control.

I get the feeling as well that they know that its only a matter of time before the volcano erupts. The furlough scheme is winding down, measures to get people out and about spending have failed and even this latest measure to get people to visit our cultural treasures is doomed to failure. Hopefully more and more people are waking up.

81233 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #173 of 1097 🔗

Let’s look at it this way. The people running this horror show were so excited to take advantage of this opportunity that they didn’t have time to put in place the perfect group of people to carry out their plan to the fullest. This bumbling, fumbling government, unfortunately, is really not bright enough to really pull it off. Back to the drawing board. That could give us enough time to prepare for their next attack, so we must continue to resist this present BS tooth and nail and claw back as much freedom as we can now. A couple of hackers would also help a lot.

81241 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, 9, #174 of 1097 🔗

Exactly. I think the way to go now apart from raising greater awareness is continued resistance and civil disobedience on our pat.

81239 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #175 of 1097 🔗

The tipping point of ‘enough’ people waking up will no doubt be met with an ’emergency lockdown’, i.e. no travel or gatherings – with enforcement.

81242 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #176 of 1097 🔗

They can try but if more than enough people resist, it will be unenforceable. Look at antisocial distancing – hardly anyone cares now even the police who were ridiculed for enforcing it.

81277 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #177 of 1097 🔗

Hope so, Bart, but there’s just so many sheep, who would welcome it.

81646 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Poppy, 1, #178 of 1097 🔗

People who agree with measures are not just unthinking sheep. There are many out there who are benefiting from all this by getting paid and not working, working less for the same pay or working from home and loving it. They’ll believe whatever they need to believe if they can carry on in the same way.

81696 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Poppy, 1, #179 of 1097 🔗

I’m amazed (though not really surprised to be honest) that they feel they can justify, and get away with, another local lockdown. The dubious justification behind last week’s ones (see Carl Heneghan’s article on CEBM) was even mentioned in the mainstream media.

81861 ▶▶ djc, replying to Poppy, 1, #180 of 1097 🔗

There are people who have been ‘sheilding’ all this time who really have no idea what is happening other than what they get from MSM. Now they are poking their heads out and finding people who have been carrying on as normal all these months. Act normal, make it clear that they are the ones who have been fooled.

81201 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 16, #181 of 1097 🔗

Some brief additions before heading to the beach.

Covid is still raging in Wales …according to the data with 74 hospital admissions on August 5th as opposed to England with only 21 covid admissions that day . Garbage in ??


The adulation of the Victorian Premier in Australia continues . The journalists from the only Melbourne broadsheet asked the glorious leader ” how do you manage to do all this ..we are so grateful to you ”


A patient was refused assessment at a neighbouring surgery because they refused to wear a mask because of anxiety . This is against PHE guidelines. I presume they have a case for disability discrimmination under the 1995 act ; anyone know ?

81213 ▶▶ matt, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #182 of 1097 🔗

Very probably, yes – the act applies to GP surgeries every bit as much as it does to other settings. I would suggest the patient should seek legal advice, though. The link Toby provides on his page would be a good place to start, because a key will be finding a solicitor sympathetic to the position.

Ultimately, an initial solicitor’s letter will probably be enough to force the practice to back down.

81234 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #183 of 1097 🔗

It would be under the equality act 2010, and yes it is disability discrimination, patient should ask to see the Equality Impact Assessment and the Risk Assessment for their services.

81283 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #184 of 1097 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/04/doctors-criticise-barmy-rules-forcing-treat-patients-refuse/ (paywall) but includes “In a bulletin to GPs, NHS England said patients “should not be refused entry to a premises or access to care if they are unable to or refuse to” wear a face mask”. Can’t find a link to that bulletin -do we have any GPs who can help?

81206 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #185 of 1097 🔗

Great edition of LS this morning. One of the best. But how to get it read by the bedwetters? A link with a simple title – ‘ read something you won’t agree with’ ?

What do people think?… Are there any amateur psychologists that can suggest a more effective alternative?

81209 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #186 of 1097 🔗

Honestly, I think we need to choose our platform. Rehearse the facts and have conversations face to face. Find a chink and exploit it – not aggressively, but persuasively. Don’t do it online in an open forum, because there will be too many people who won’t read what’s behind your argument and will just dismiss it out of hand. My recent experience is that most people are beginning to suspect they’ve been had. If you can talk to them one-on-one you’ll get further than if you do it somewhere (like Facebook) where you’ll be shouted down by idiots who will never admit they’ve been had.

81231 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to matt, 3, #187 of 1097 🔗

It’s those types of contrary fuckers I’m aiming for. Was thinking a bit of reverse psychology but you are probably right. I’ve also found the odd lull to be effective as the constant butting of heads just builds resistance.

81236 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, 12, #188 of 1097 🔗

I’d ignore them. They’re hysterical and their opinions are a matter of faith, not knowledge. Work on people who are wavering and you’ll get further. Eventually even the total zealots will come around once nobody else is listening to them and he all of a sudden they’ll be telling you that they never believed the crap in the first place.

81246 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #189 of 1097 🔗

These bedwetters won’t ever listen whatever you say, they only work on emotion and not facts. No matter what you throw at them they will always come back with things like “but if it saves one life” or “but you’re could spread it and kill and vulnerable person”. They have been conditioned to think like this for many years by the MSM and TV programming such as watching soaps and dramas.

81281 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 5, #190 of 1097 🔗

Wonder how many of them drink and drive? Or smoke? Or engage in high risk activities, such as ‘crossing the road’?

81454 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #191 of 1097 🔗

Now now, Sam, no digs at smokers please. We are near the very top of Common Purpose’s list to be sent to the gulags.

81661 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to JohnB, 2, #192 of 1097 🔗

You should be aware by now that smoking is one of those activities that has a strongly protective effect against Covid ( Very inconvenient for the bansturbators & puritans)

82186 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nessimmersion, #193 of 1097 🔗

It has many strongly protective effects. 🙂 One of the biggest is against certain forms of arthritis.

81207 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 14, #194 of 1097 🔗

Toby tells us that our Covid death statistics are to be modified so that they are counted only if death occurs within 28 days of being tested positive.
This is still nonsense surely as it is the cause of death that is important.

81211 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bill Hickling, 10, #195 of 1097 🔗

The next step needs to be a review of death certificates to remove all of the 3rd part (Peter Thompson will be able to help by being more specific about the section on the form) “other complications known to be present” entires from the totals.

I don’t see how we’ll ever be able to go any further than that. The death certificates stand as a matter of record and the bodies have been cremated. I suspect the numbers we end up with will always be overinflated.

Also, when complete garbage like “1.5M lives saved” is being trotted out, we need to remember that every life not lost to Covid has the potential to be another life “saved” by lockdown.

81417 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, 5, #196 of 1097 🔗

It is impossible to now know how many people died of rather than with Covid.Because of a deliberate act by the government to assign Covid to any patient who was suspected of having It despite a lack of positive test.
The symptoms are so wide ranging anyone could have be classed as having it.
Even the excess mortality figures are skewed because we don’t know how many deaths are due to the lockdown itself.
We will face a fight because when they are ready the government can point to the figures and say look how bad it would have been,without all our measures.

81249 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bill Hickling, 6, #197 of 1097 🔗

Will never happen as the figures would be near zero. I take it they’ve gone for 28 days as more than likely 95%-99% of the deaths will have occurred in this short time due to COVID-19 deaths only being registered from the beginning of March, so the figures will only drop by a few hundred, rather than basing them on what the person actually died of which would significantly reduce the amount of COVID-19 deaths.

81273 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnB, 3, #198 of 1097 🔗

I don’t know what experience you have of very elderly people, although we do know Peter Thompson has. Whether in a care home or not, most will have more than one thing wrong with them all the time, to do with deteriorating organs and/or processes, plus falling over and injuring themselves ( poor eyesight, deafness so don’t hear a cyclist coming up behind them and get in their path, postural hypotension, i.e. dizziness when they stand up due to blood not getting round fast enough any longer). They go in and out of hospital on a regular basis, getting patched up and out again – until the last time, when they might die under anaesthetic at 95 as a surgeon inserts a replacement hip joint (as happened to my close relative), or of a respiratory disease contracted either in their care home or in hospital, on top of their initial reason for admission. In the former case it’s doubtful they’d be tested for CV19, although I don’t know if it became routine in all hospital deaths after 23 March?
But otherwise, if with symptoms, I think it’s right to include CV 19 on the death cert, as otherwise we’d never know how prevalent it was, or how significant especially in hospitals and care homes. I don’t think it would be right to say they ‘really’ died of whatever they were admitted for, such as a persistent urinary infection causing bloody urine, when what carried them off finally was CV 19. Or pneumonia, or flu, or whatever, if that’s what it was. Put them on the certificate, don’t ignore them. We need to know something about the contagiousness and prevalence of these things from year to year.
We know 25.6% of CV19 deaths also had dementia; it’s important to know that, so in future we can try to be extra careful how we treat them. Or not; Peter Thompson also observed here that those patients allowed to die in their care or other home setting passed away peacefully, a merciful end to a long life in those cases.

81453 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bruno, 3, #199 of 1097 🔗

Sylvie, I was talking to the OH (a nurse) about this. Cv19 should go down in the notes and supporting material if that’s possible not as a cause of death. So the actual numbers reflect reality – i.e. uncertainty

Simply if you don’t know you don’t attribute. You could still record CV19 information but it wouldn’t be a false attribution.

81465 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to mhcp, 1, #200 of 1097 🔗

I think the person certifying it is duty bound to include it on the death cert though? As otherwise, how could it be part of public health reviews and decisions taken drawing on them, which are the foundation data for the ONS stats?

81966 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #201 of 1097 🔗

It’s a notifiable disease.

81259 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Bill Hickling, 2, #202 of 1097 🔗

The trouble is that they aren’t performing autopsies (WHO guidance?) so they can’t be certain and with co-morbidities you can never really be sure which condition actually wielded the dagger. That’s why any measure is always an approximation – flu death statistics are compiled without a test too. Whether 28 days is a small enough window (arguably nobody who’s going to do from CV hangs on that long) is a reasonable question, but from our perspective anything which reduces the daily deaths to zero or near zero has to be a good thing.

81292 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #203 of 1097 🔗

Sorry, but if you’ve got an 85 year old who died in hospital with a 6 month old neck bone break which wasn’t healing, a newer urinary infection, dehydration and a positive CV 19 swab, you’re not going to perform an autopsy to find out if it was ‘ really’ CV 19 they died of. You’re just not.

81404 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Bruno, 2, #204 of 1097 🔗

I agree, but I read somewhere that the WHO actually issued guidance not to carry out autopsies where Covid was suspected. Obviously common-sense should tell you that some of these deaths aren’t Covid, but politics seems to be telling people that they have to consider them as such regardless.

81480 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #205 of 1097 🔗

I don’t have the reference to hand but think that was so for UK too. But I don’t think autopsies would have been ordered anyway, in the majority of those (very elderly, multiple co morbidities) cases, i. e. I don’t believe they would have normally taken place anyway. No point. There might have been a point for otherwise healthy young people (bus drivers, medical staff) where the diagnosis was uncertain.
I also disagree with your ‘anything that reduces the daily deaths to zero or near zero has to be a good thing.’ It isn’t. We need to know how widespread and contagious this is, how serious in what age cohorts, and so on. We need good data.

81552 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bruno, 1, #206 of 1097 🔗

Ronan Maher wrote an excellent article for Hector Drummond’s website on the changes to UK death certification and its consequences..

81208 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 30, #207 of 1097 🔗

Good morning Fellow Sceptics!

As we all know today is the day when mandatory muzzling in more indoor spaces including museums, art galleries and heritage sites begins.

We should vote with our wallet and feet and boycott these places. Crucially write to them and tell them why we’re boycotting.

If we must go and visit, use the feedback forms and surveys to let them know how we feel.

Hopefully this will wake the likes of the National Gallery, National Trust, British Museum, V&A, English Heritage, etc up and shame them for their lack of courage in standing up to the government who have done bugger all for the sector and is complicit in their destruction.

81275 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #208 of 1097 🔗

Absolutely – we have to vote with our feet. As far as possible, I’m avoiding places that require masks, e.g. instead of grabbing a sandwich from Pret or local supermarket for lunch, eat in at a local cafe instead.

81821 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to zacaway, 1, #209 of 1097 🔗

Well said and also boycott those who demand you give your details for NHS T&T!

81308 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #210 of 1097 🔗


 vote with our wallet and feet and boycott these places

81444 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #211 of 1097 🔗

Had two emails yesterday from Heritage places I support. Replied to both saying that in view of the mask policy wouldn’t be visiting until it was repealed

81822 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to EllGee, 1, #212 of 1097 🔗

Have just done the same with the British Museum – Mr Bart and I are members but have said that we won’t be visiting until “safety” measures and mandatory mask wearing has been abolished.

81212 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #213 of 1097 🔗

New song suggestion: ‘Our day will come’ by Ruby and the Romantics.

81309 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to richard riewer, 2, #214 of 1097 🔗

A change is gonna come, Sam Cooke.

82560 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to BecJT, #215 of 1097 🔗

A change is gonna come …
And when it does we’ll be ‘Twistin’ the Night Away’…

81320 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to richard riewer, 1, #216 of 1097 🔗

Tide is Turning by Roger Waters

81449 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to richard riewer, -1, #217 of 1097 🔗

Haha, careful now, that’s the motto of the IRA! Only in Irish it’s ‘tiocfaidh ar la” (chucky R La).

81458 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, 3, #218 of 1097 🔗

Am I the only one who heard ‘careful now’ in a Father Ted accent ? 🙂

82561 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to mhcp, #219 of 1097 🔗

Ruby & the Romantics beat them to it.

81216 FiFiTrixabelle, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 22, #220 of 1097 🔗

Sturgeon has been interviewed and asked why the joint statement by the UK Government and devolved nations on tacking Covid has not yet materialised. Her response is that they have been unable to agree the wording : “For reasons I don’t fully understand there seems to be, on the part of the UK government, an unwillingness to use the word elimination and I don’t really know why that is the case.”
So, confirmation that up her in SNP land we are now going for full elimination of this virus. What a joke.
Maybe, just maybe, we can take some hope from this statement that BoJo realises this is impossible.

81228 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 4, #221 of 1097 🔗

If they aren’t ever going to go down the Herd Immunity route then the only option for “Full Elimination” will be to vaccinate everyone.

81280 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, #222 of 1097 🔗

Not much chance of that happening any times soon, so speaks the man in the US who knows a bit about these things, and is personally, pretty invested (in a financial as well as scientific sense) in the bandwagon:


81494 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to JohnB, 2, #223 of 1097 🔗

If ir were eliminated there would be no need for a vaccine to protect from what has been eliminated.

81882 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to JohnB, 1, #224 of 1097 🔗

And that would assume 100% efficacy of the vaccine, wouldn’t it?

81969 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #225 of 1097 🔗

And no need for regular repeat jabs!

82080 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, #226 of 1097 🔗

The vaccine will be all about elimination, ask Bill Gates.

81229 ▶▶ matt, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 12, #227 of 1097 🔗

Is there a way to get sturgeon sectioned?

81254 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 5, #228 of 1097 🔗


81268 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to annie, 2, #229 of 1097 🔗

Fully (and finally!) eliminated.

81284 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Alec in France, 1, #230 of 1097 🔗

I’ve eliminated her. Well, people like her. Ok, what I mean is “I’ve shit ’em”.

81319 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 6, #231 of 1097 🔗

Getting rid of swinney as many are calling for would really get her jitters going. She isolated as it is with only a tiny bunker of support in her circle of trust.

Weeping comment, increasingly hyperbolic statements. Skin greasy and blotchy with sweat in press conference. Would take Bruno Ganz or Anthony Hopkins to play her in the remake.

82088 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, #232 of 1097 🔗

Anybody remember the Munsters?

82211 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #233 of 1097 🔗

a tiny bunker of support in her circle of trust.

Like Hitler.

82210 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to matt, #234 of 1097 🔗

How about a straightjacket?

81276 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 10, #235 of 1097 🔗

This is because she is being advised by the 36 year old Professor Sridhar, who is neither a doctor nor a scientist (unless you count an MPhil and DPhil in social policy), and who just happens to be a friend of Chelsea Clinton. This is what we are up against, unfortunately.

81285 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #236 of 1097 🔗

Yes, and it was Sridhar’s dept at Edinburgh Uni which got the £28million bung from Bill Gates. And Stasi Sturgeon hates Trump so it does seem the political nature of Covid is to oust the Donald.

81329 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to peter, 6, #237 of 1097 🔗

That ‘Trump hate’ is a feature on the landscape of being a good little snp follower. Trinkets in shops and homes virtue display the Democrat thinking about Trump. Trump lampoon masks and toilet brushs for sale in shop windows. This is how Scotland is, not a whisky glow sunset over miekle pap of loch flipping salmon with kilts on and bag peeps a’dronin’ some air of lament.

Got my self thinking! Are bag pipes now banned? Bags of swilling virus surely!

81681 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Basics, 2, #238 of 1097 🔗

Those of us old enough will recall when the same irrational burning hatred mixed with contempt was directed at Reagan by the same kinds of people. I suppose the Bushes got the same treatment, but deserved it more. Trump just seems to have had the dial turned up to 11 by these people.

82089 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, #239 of 1097 🔗

Not so many years ago, Scotland took its knickers off and rolled on its back for Trump when he proposed to build a giant golf resort in Aberdeenshire.
Tempora mutantur.

82213 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #240 of 1097 🔗

Nicola’s a solicitor.

81313 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 13, #241 of 1097 🔗

How spectacularly STUPID!!!

There is no way that you can eliminate a virus – even if you vaccinate every individual once a month.

The virus is here to stay, we need to learn to live with it

81332 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 7, #242 of 1097 🔗

Do we need to learn to live with it or do we need to remember how we live with viruses? I say we need to learn to recognise evil and propaganda, then we will be just dandy once more.

81366 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Victoria, -1, #243 of 1097 🔗

But look at the Dodo, we eradicated that!

81501 ▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Nobody2020, #244 of 1097 🔗

Hmm. Where do you get anti-Dodo vaccine?

81549 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Polemon2, #245 of 1097 🔗

Is this a serious question? You know that a Dodo is a bird right?

81829 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #246 of 1097 🔗

It must be much harder to eliminate a bird. Birds can fly away, but the virus just hovers in the air and on surfaces and stuff.

81972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #247 of 1097 🔗

The dodo was a flightless bird!

Also it had never met humans before and didn’t know to be shit scared of us.

81314 ▶▶ Basics, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 2, #248 of 1097 🔗

They’ll say covids will be found clinging to the heather and a full scorched earth policy is the only way to go. Then it’ll be the seaweed on the beaches….

The older-by-the-day-looking-moo spun the spinning. Based on only the words you quote it is clear she is also saying she is the reason for the joint statement to not have been presented. Her way or nothing and that is ok by her. Nihilistic nationalism is splitting her own vote. A few more weeks and she may tantrum – her language is heading in that direction as she realised this is one almighty corner she has painted herself into.

81509 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Basics, 1, #249 of 1097 🔗

Take off and nuke the whole site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

81340 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 1, #250 of 1097 🔗

It may well be that elimination isn’t desirable. If we go down the path of elimination for something like this then we are settting a very low bar for elimination of future pathogens. And once we start wel have to keep channeling resources into human interventions forever where a more natural route may have sufficed.

82090 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #251 of 1097 🔗

When did Scotland eliminate the common cold?

81516 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 2, #252 of 1097 🔗

Sticky Nurgeon

81557 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #253 of 1097 🔗

Did interviewer query ‘elimination’?

81641 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #254 of 1097 🔗

This could be interesting. Assuming Wee Krankie is telling the truth (OK, I know!!) this suggests that Johnson and co. may not yet be going along with this lunatic document from ‘Independent’ Sage:

‘Independent SAGE believes that the UK government must fundamentally change its
approach and we propose a new overarching strategic objective of achieving a Zero COVID UK, i.e. the elimination of the virus from the UK. We believe this should be informed by science and debated in public, and a proper coordinated strategy for its achievement developed with the public.


Even under the most optimistic estimates for when a vaccine will become available, it is
unlikely to provide “sterilising immunity” and in any case is very unlikely to be provided to
all individuals in the UK within the next year. ‘

Posted on here yesterday (sorry, forget who it was): https://www.independentsage.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20200717-A-Better-Way-To-Go.pdf

81702 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #255 of 1097 🔗

After reading that, my opinion of “Independent SAGE” has gone even lower!
I hope more than anything else that Johnson and co. don’t attempt to follow the chimera of “zero COVID”. That would eclipse almost everything they’ve already done, which is saying something. It doesn’t seem totally beyond possibility that they might decide on this in an attempt to show themselves as “caring more about people’s health”

Unless you permanently close our borders (and maybe not even then) “Zero COVID” is surely unachievable even with a vaccine, in the same way as we’ve never eliminated common cold viruses. But a government attempting it will inflict many more months of pointless misery and economic ruin on its people before finding this out!

81975 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Drawde927, #256 of 1097 🔗

No sane person could entertain the notion of eradicating a coronavirus.

81223 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #257 of 1097 🔗

A very interesting graph what is happening in Spain. Second wave? Enormous increase in testing.37500 cases last 14 days.60% asymptomatc 37% mild 3% hospitalization but deaths very low for now and many cases in previously not hit regions but also new cases in previously hit regions. The interesting is the CFR current last month 0.26% and if we assume this is the same since the beginning of the pandemic, what do we get? The real peak in April was 300000 and not 8000.And the total cases 10,7 million cases and that is 23% of the Spanish population. Herdimmunity?? Daily case CFR adjusted does not indicate second wave for now.

81245 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #258 of 1097 🔗

BTW not very good news for masks.The highest mask bearing in Europe and several thousands symptomatic cases.

81247 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, 1, #259 of 1097 🔗

But… imagine how much worse it would be without the masks!

81447 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to matt, 1, #260 of 1097 🔗

Dogs and cats living together

82045 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #261 of 1097 🔗

Thanks for this. It’s one to keep an eye on. There’s a possibility from the serology map that Catalonia and Valencia were not fully cooked through the first time around. But the Barcelona wastewater from Jan 2020 contradicts this and indicates they may even have had it first. I’m sitting on the fence.

81227 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #262 of 1097 🔗

1.5 million dead without lockdown now? Triple Fergoid’s overinflated number. How did they come up with that one??

81394 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to A. Contrarian, #263 of 1097 🔗

The answer is in Toby’s original post, it’s Annexe G to the SAGE paper.

81230 Tim Bidie, 11, #264 of 1097 🔗

‘W e shall fight on the beaches…..’

Our country may be coming back to us…..They took their time!

Inproportion2 Straw Poll:

‘Based on this small informal poll, general opinions on Covid have dramatically shifted against the government.

The most popular response in both groups was D:

“The govt and their experts have got the whole Covid topic completely and utterly wrong with a disastrous blanket lockdown”

And…..we know exactly where all the lunatics are!:

Respondents to the survey who were sourced by a request through twitter seem not to have changed their opinions at all.’


81232 john1999, replying to john1999, 9, #265 of 1097 🔗

If we start from a premise that hcq including combination is an effective treatment and that the powers that be have been waging an all out battle against its use costing hundreds of thousands of lives what could be the motivation? Vaccine money is not enough. It can only be to stop Trump’s reelection and the unveiling of criminality and the halt in the plot to deconstruct Western institutions and install a fascist empire. I should also say it has provided governments with the opportunity to extend their reach and power over every area of our lives. George Orwell would shudder to believe it.

81402 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to john1999, 5, #266 of 1097 🔗

Well it might be an effective treatment in some cases at some stage of their infection. It’s not a panacea. But since a quarter of UK deaths also had dementia, it might be more merciful to just give them palliative care.

81235 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 4, #268 of 1097 🔗

Coronavirus: For every three COVID-19 deaths, lockdown may have caused another two


16,000 of the 38,500 excess deaths we’re non-COVID, it reports:

“However, the report concludes 41% of those deaths were the result of missed medical care rather than the virus itself.

Of the 16,000 deaths, the paper estimates 6,000 were as a result of a “significant reduction in A&E attendances and emergency admissions”.

Another 21,000 deaths expected by next March:

“The modelling suggests there could be a further 26,000 excess deaths by March 2021 as a result of ongoing restrictions to medical care.”

Sage have had this report for over a month and sat on it:

The document was presented to the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) last month, but was only released on Friday.”

81253 ▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 4, #269 of 1097 🔗

And that’s assuming that all the ‘Covid deaths’ were directly caused by Civid, which we know to be a lie.

81408 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to annie, 1, #270 of 1097 🔗

Some excitable journalists assume ‘all the CV deaths were directly caused by CV’, Annie, I’m sure you know better. SAGE had a more nuanced paper in front of them.

81460 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to annie, 4, #271 of 1097 🔗

The odds are that there have been other infections around that have caused terminal respiratory disease in the vulnerable. It’s what happens, and it will show as a spike of deaths amongst older vulnerable people who have had an extra year of life because there was little infection last year (i.e some raised mortality this year may be a result of good, not ill- fortune).

But the problem is that we will never know, because of the lack of consistent death registration. I would be very suspicious of any numbers attached to ‘Covid’ deaths.

81495 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to RickH, #272 of 1097 🔗

More suspicious than those from flu or pneumonia ( whatever that implies, it’s a description of symptoms from a cluster of viral and bacterial infections)?

81836 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #273 of 1097 🔗

Covid figures will be inflated because presumably they tick the “had Covid” box for anyone who tested positive. But they might have had hardly any symptoms.

If you tested more people for other cold and flu viruses you would probably find a similar picture. Lots of mild and asymptomatic cases. Somebody should actually do this to find out because it would be interesting to confirm whether there’s anything special about Covid in this respect.

You wouldn’t say someone had flu or pneumonia unless they actually did have quite severe symptoms.

Maybe in the future now that PCR tests are so cheap we’ll just record all the viruses someone had when they died. Would be potentially useful data.

81237 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 44, #274 of 1097 🔗

I’ve read this site daily for months and found it about the only place for regular common sense. But in the past week I joined the Daily Mail website to try adding a few comments. Anyway a few days later and with all my posts anti lockdown, highlighting the stupidity of Boris etc, comments with an uptick versus a down tick are about 12 to 1.
Over 300 up ticks and few down ticks even when I am slating the Mails own article and highlighting the craziness of the numbers.
Maybe just maybe there are a silent majority that also don’t believe the lies and want us to get back to normal ASAP?
It’s easy to say your pro lockdown when your getting paid for nothing or allowed to work from home, but the millions on the beaches would suggest that what suits is the order of the day. Pretend to be panicked when it suits your needs, then crack on with life when it suits you as well.
Shame the government isn’t bright enough or gutsy enough to see through all the bullsh•t …..from scientists and also from the public playing the game!!! Lightweight politicians so scared of social media that they cannot do what is best for the country.

81263 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to John Ballard, 16, #275 of 1097 🔗

Exactly. I doubt all those pro-lockdowners would be so rabid in their views if their means of earning a living had been forcibly withdrawn.

81272 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John Ballard, 4, #276 of 1097 🔗

Great job JB!

81443 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to John Ballard, 7, #277 of 1097 🔗

I think it’s the realisation that the money is running out. Redundancy rumours for companies are probably starting or in some cases (Like Bart S’s place) actual meetings about it.

And to contrast that, the council workers, politicians, teachers etc all on full pay.

81508 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to mhcp, 1, #278 of 1097 🔗

Because without them continuing to be paid to collect your bins, maintain the flood barriers, work out how to preserve adult and child social care with holes in budgets of billions, and so on, you’d have a breakdown of civil society. I don’t want to live in Beirut.

81607 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Bruno, 2, #279 of 1097 🔗

Except that they are not the ones “working from home”. The bureaucrats always try to protect their own jobs by hiding behind the people who are actually doing the work.

81873 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to WhyNow, #280 of 1097 🔗

You need both. Someone has to keep track of the money, organise the work schedules, do the forward thinking and the back up admin. Why do you think the computer industry is such a phenomenal success, and there’s a terminal on every desk?

81838 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John Ballard, 3, #281 of 1097 🔗

Well said. Many of these lockdownistas won’t be singing the praises of lockdown for long if the government has to raid their pensions to pay for all the free money they have been throwing away like confetti.

81240 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 79, #282 of 1097 🔗

I had a meeting with Tory Chairman on Thursday evening. I must preface this by saying I like him, respect him, and he is a good person. However, he was just about to jet off to his house in France, so I alarmed him by telling him about potential quarantine, as he could not break it due to his position and profile, and it would damage his business. Landed blow 1.

Secondly, we were just chatting about all this, and he’s still clinging to ‘it’s just politics’ and in the end I just said, ‘we’re beyond that now, this is about what is morally right, there is no way Boris can ‘spin’ his way out of this any more, the damage its doing is just immense. It needs to stop. Lawyers are galvanising, this is the biggest infringement of civil liberties ever seen, it’s not good’. Landed blow 2.

I’ve also written to the chairman of the 1922 Committee (on someone’s recommendation here, thank you) imploring him to do something to get these nutters’ hands off the tiller. I politely laid it out in its gruesome glory. This is killing and ruining people, it’s wrecking the economy, my rights are inalienable, and the law belongs to the people not the government etc etc. I suggest everyone does the same. I’m changing tack, we need to pressure sceptical Tories and back benchers, I think the pressure needs to come from inside the party.

81251 ▶▶ annie, replying to BecJT, 16, #283 of 1097 🔗

Well done you. Keep pushing.

81255 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 23, #284 of 1097 🔗

Agree. Husband cancelled his membership, and wrote to CCHQ, local association and MP (he is a minister who ‘inherited’ the seat, and really a LibDem, in our view). No response.

81322 ▶▶ elliotsdad, replying to BecJT, 15, #285 of 1097 🔗

My local Tory Mp is next to useless I’m afraid. I have written to her numerous times sending links for evidence against lockdowns and on the last occasions even citing my inability to get an hospital referral appointment even though there have been no covid deaths in my local hospital for over 2 months. All she could say was that the HandCOCK ordered reopening of the NHS (NCS more like) backin April and that things are opening up (though obviously not in my case) and to see if my GP could suggest an alternative centre!! I even accused her and her Government of only caring about Covid deaths. Her response? To assure me that this wasn’t the case!! Laughable doesn’t even begin to describe it.

81330 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to elliotsdad, 7, #286 of 1097 🔗

My local MP is useless too. You can write to Sir Graham even if you are not one of his constituents

81331 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to elliotsdad, 11, #287 of 1097 🔗

They need to feel PRESSURE, and the tide turning away from them, they think this is popular. It might be, but those people don’t write to them! So sorry about the GP, my 85 old dad is having the same issue. It’s a scandal.

81342 ▶▶▶▶ elliotsdad, replying to BecJT, 8, #288 of 1097 🔗

My GP has been great actually, I’ve had several phone consultations and even a face to face one (all next day), when I didn’t wear a face mask and when questioned by the receptionist I just said the Dr asked me in for a quick throat swab test (non covid!) anyway and that was that. I even had a chest x-ray at a local centre which was – wait for it – EMPTY.

81414 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to elliotsdad, 7, #289 of 1097 🔗

My MP is useless too – doesn’t even reply to messages. And he’s the chief whip…

81328 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to BecJT, 13, #290 of 1097 🔗

I wrote to Sir Graham Brady too Bec and got a very quick and quite encouraging reply. I have put both letters in the forum under ‘Politics …’ for the record. I would recommend that others do the same too.

81333 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Cbird, 7, #291 of 1097 🔗

Great, he’s not replied to me, but I’ve seen from the press that he’s being more vocal and asking difficult questions so I’m hoping he’s getting lots of correspondence. There must be a grown up somewhere to inject some realism into this madness.

81621 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Cbird, 3, #292 of 1097 🔗

Sir Brady politely replied to me too. He`s not even my mp (no replies from him).

81978 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cbird, 1, #293 of 1097 🔗


81451 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to BecJT, 5, #294 of 1097 🔗

Wrote to my MP as the leading light in the Red Wall MPs and reminded him what the 1922 Committee is capable of. Doubt if he’ll reply but you have to keep trying

81544 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to BecJT, 4, #295 of 1097 🔗

Apologies if this has already been posted – I had a day off the forums yesterday as I was mentally exhausted..

I just found this, which may explain why the government are still pursuing lockdown strategies: https://greatgameindia.com/belarus-world-bank-coronavirus-conditions/

Basically it is a condition of them getting money/loans etc from the World Bank. If they do not do as they are told (ie impose ever stricter controls on the population) then they get no money – which obviously they need in order to have any chance of rescuing the UK’s financial situation..

There are lots of interesting links from this one, as an aside..

81589 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 5, #296 of 1097 🔗

I said that was happening ages ago. Held to ransom by the world bank unless we comply with the lockdown.

81692 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 2, #297 of 1097 🔗

Great stuff, Bec. Probably my biggest two disappointments in this whole nonsense were the failures of two groups to apply any effective pushback to this disastrous panic – “Conservative” backbenchers and grassroots members, and big business and investors.

Most of the other disappointments – Johnson’s and the “Conservative” hierarchy’s performance, failures by courts, journalists, Opposition, big tech, were all groups I had little real hope for, once the Johnson government had proved the suspicions about their mettle to have been correct.

81782 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to BecJT, 2, #298 of 1097 🔗

I’ve had a sympathetic response from Sir Graham Brady too. altsale@parliament.uk

81248 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 24, #299 of 1097 🔗

Quick update from the High St: Ha ha ha, funny how impending financial hardship has concentrated the mind of the owner of our local soft furnishing shop: traffic lights gone, queueing system: abandoned, limited nos of customers inside instruction: abandoned. Is this the start ….?

Hope my fellow LS are bearing up. I’m having a crap time with my ‘lovely’ internet provider who is adding an extra layer of hell to my life. Manage to read the occasional comment at work but that’s it as no service at home until mid-August. Like having an invite to a great party but not being able to attend!

Today’s t-shirt: ‘Old Normal for Me’

Right, gotta get back on the front-line of coffee and scone production and running the gauntlet of people whose day is ruined, not by the response to the COVID terror, but because they can’t have exactly what they want!

81250 ▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 2, #300 of 1097 🔗

Dealing with the public really makes one live the human race, doesn’t it?
As fir the zombie race…

81262 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 16, #301 of 1097 🔗

Update as the customers haven’t materialised yet. Another maniacal laughing session from me: apparently those little-Hitler hairdressers, who insist that their poor mug customers sit outside before their disease-ridden bodies are permitted access to the hallowed portals of Mr Teazy Weazy Rip-off Hairdressers, now have to stump up £100 to the local council for use of the pavements as a waiting area! There is a god …!

81296 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, #302 of 1097 🔗

On the internet issue. I have had several largish isdues with my providers (2). Usually bomb proof. But not now. I mention since my mind wonders if these difficulties of service are not an atempt to counter free speech.

Could be just bad luck. Worth a mention to see if all other LSs are enjoying ISP fault free.

81301 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Basics, 2, #303 of 1097 🔗

Thanks Basics. No, it’s because I wanted to switch providers. Original provider not allowing access (despite being given 5 weeks’ notice) to new provider (should have gone live on 4th July) and then trying to stiff me for another month’s bill and because I have refused to pay, they have cut me off. Thanks for the info’ anyway … kh

81252 swedenborg, 3, #304 of 1097 🔗


Not very good news for mask fanatics.Hawaii. Mask mandate and cases.

81258 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 20, #305 of 1097 🔗

Well after a lovely week of normal living in Norway a sharp snap back to gloom as we’re getting ready to leave just now. Conversation turns to covid with the taxi driver as they’ve had this cruise ship with some cases, an English woman who lives in France in our group joined in too. ‘who in their right mind would go on a cruise atm anyway?’ she said, to which I replied well I would – what exactly are you so scared of?

Norwegian taxi driver is just casually dismissing the entire cruise industry for years, ‘my daughter has a heart disease and this is much more dangerous than flu, that’s a fact!’ she asserted after I had pointed out its ridiculous to continue like this when most people unaffected and death ages etc. At this point its hopefully as once people emotional there’s no reasoning, what was more disturbing was the 33yr old English woman, perfectly healthy ‘I don’t know what to believe now, I’ve heard so many different things’, tried to point out it’d not a religion with beliefs there are just cold hard facts, most of us have no risk and its overblown… ‘well I’ve read some young people have died too’

I wanted to scream. Both of them just accept this is ‘going to go on for years’ and even ‘bill Gates says it’ll be 2022 before we have a vaccine so at least until then’ – idiots are prepared to sacrifice life for years til a vaccine for a this flu comes along. It’s mental, but that is what we’re up against… Honestly feels hopeless

81266 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark II, 13, #306 of 1097 🔗

It seems fitting to make mention of a recent TV interview posted on here in which Gates casually mentioned tgat he is having regular calls with Fauci to discuss plan and strategy. Who is gates to be doing such a thing?

Here’s the link someone else posted https://youtu.be/V8i4hwbsj_I
I think it gives an excellent recap on the sickness and evil of gates. Even excluding the commentary the gates interview on US msm is included for own judgement. The interviewer appears to look uncomfortable with the concepts gates in describing.

He is a sicko. Why the folk in the Norwegian taxi cannot see that is a curosity that psychologist will spend years explaining. Mass psychosis.

81368 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Basics, 4, #307 of 1097 🔗

The thing is none of these people, who are this far gone (and I think this is still a majority of people) will believe the truth unless it’s uttered by their chosen hero, be it Boris, or vallance, Cummings, starmer or sturgeon – it has to come from a single person that they decide they believe above any facts or figures we might present.

81384 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 1, #308 of 1097 🔗

21.30 onwards – Boris and Whitty
Interesting analysis of the Berlin protests following that

81539 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 3, #309 of 1097 🔗

That is a great video!
And as you say – who is Gates to be discussing plan and strategy – the man has ZERO medical qualifications.! Makes me so mad!

81493 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Mark II, 3, #310 of 1097 🔗

This “well, I’ve read some young people have died too” reply is one of the most stupid things I’ve ever heard (and there’s a lot of stupidity going around at the moment”. So many people have absolutely no understanding of statistics and probability. If your only criteria for something being a risk is that it has a non-zero probability of happening, you would never leave your house, as there is a non-zero probability of you being run over, knifed to death by a psycho or killed by a meteorite falling on your head.

82085 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Chicot, 1, #311 of 1097 🔗

But if you stay in your house, the roof could fall in, the gas might leak, the chip pan might catch fire, the computer might blow up in your face, you could be strangled by your bra or your trousers or fatally injured by a tea cosy, or the monster that lives under the bed might come out and get you.

81265 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 2, #312 of 1097 🔗

Good Morning everyone – I am out for the day! However for those who would like to direct the nation and have a bit of time on there hands, what do you think the UK policy should be at the moment? I will check in this evening to see how the policy is looking!
I suspect within the Lockdown Sceptic group there will be differences of opinion!

81270 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Steeve, 11, #313 of 1097 🔗

My first policy change would be to remove the mandatory mask wearing rule inside shops etc – I would still have some restrictions concerning social distancing.

81363 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steeve, 10, #314 of 1097 🔗

Get rid of the bastard masks NOW!.

81483 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Steeve, 4, #315 of 1097 🔗

All anti-social distancing achieves is slowing down herd immunity. Scrap all of it and let people make their own choices and decide what level of risk they are comfortable with.

81295 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Steeve, 16, #316 of 1097 🔗

Warn the over-65’s who are in frail health that there’s a nasty virus going round and they should take care.
Tells the over-65’s in good health, those of working age and children that there’s very little to fear from this virus, and they should carry on as normal, but taking normal health precautions if they have cold or flu symptoms.
…er, that’s it (Ed).

81344 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Steeve, 16, #317 of 1097 🔗

Scrap all rules.
All of them.

Simples. Stop paying the media to fearmonger. Start fining them every time they do.

All future policy centred around shielding care homes and setting up proper old fashioned ‘flu wards’ in hospitals. Winter season preparation.

81347 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 10, #318 of 1097 🔗

Oh and stop plugging vaccines for seasonal diseases. Start a programme of education advertising for good health as winter comes re: vitamin D, zinc, vitamin c, time outdoors, a hug is health!

Start studying and using HCQ and zinc (plus any other methods with validity) on covid patients. Restrict use of ventilators and use CPAP machines instead.

81350 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 9, #319 of 1097 🔗

And for God’s sake- OPEN THE SCHOOLS!!

81361 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Farinances, 6, #320 of 1097 🔗

Open the schools now, forget about the summer holidays.

81392 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Two-Six, 2, #321 of 1097 🔗

No thanks. I’m away with my kids at the moment. Would be a pain in the bum to have to head home to get them back to school. 17th August would be fine.

81418 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Farinances, 5, #322 of 1097 🔗

Start a programme of education advertising for good health as winter comes re: vitamin D, zinc, vitamin c, time outdoors, a hug is health!

If we’ve really just gone through the last 6 months to protect the NHS, then why hasn’t there been a publicity campaign to spread this message?

81584 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #323 of 1097 🔗


81383 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Steeve, 8, #324 of 1097 🔗

Replace SAGE with actual scientists. Get Heneghan, Lee, Gupta etc onboard to promote real normality with sensible guidelines for the vulnerable.
Cancel all WHO funding too.

81439 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 3, #325 of 1097 🔗

Wholeheartedly agree. I’m not sure how the assorted rag-bag of poor scientists was chosen – except, perhaps, on the basis of their brown noses.

They have been dangerously wrong at every point.

81526 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to RickH, #326 of 1097 🔗

Er at least one of them was “chosen” (ie offered up) because he was so poor in his prior role. “Promoted” away from his opportunity to cause any moe damage…or so it was hoped…

81899 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DRW, 1, #327 of 1097 🔗

Reform the NHS as well. Stop the worship of the Church of the NHS and get rid of their privileges in terms of discounts, freebies, etc

81423 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Steeve, 2, #328 of 1097 🔗

Have a draw for politicians. The loser gets caned publically. And I’m talking Indonesia style caning here

81425 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steeve, 10, #329 of 1097 🔗

Interesting question.

Basically – not a lot other than normal behaviour where there is no significant infection around (as now).


  • Certainly – bin those stupid face-nappies.
  • Leave it to vulnerable individuals and carers to operate non-hysterical safeguarding procedures.
  • If you have symptoms – do what you should do, and keep away from other people
  • Hand hygiene does no harm and probably is a good idea generally
  • Open all venues and have no restrictions. Let natural immunity (already at a high level) continue to do its work.
  • Keep shaking hands and hugging.
  • Open all schools to function normally with no measures involving child abuse in place.
  • Stop wetting your knickers
  • Remember what this government has done, and act appropriately
81433 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #330 of 1097 🔗

Oh – I forgot some ‘don’ts’ :

  • Don’t sign up to any quick and dirty vaccination programmes. They are unnecessary – and potentially dangerous – scams.
  • Stay well away from contact tracing apps. – (another kerrrching!)
  • Don’t feed the beast of unnecessary testing – it’s pointless. (kerrrching! again)
81267 Basics, replying to Basics, 18, #331 of 1097 🔗

Travel is not a luxury. It is a right.

81305 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 8, #332 of 1097 🔗

A mere human right. We din’t have those any more.

81359 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 3, #333 of 1097 🔗

Deeper. It is a universal right.

A swift or swallow doesn’t have more rights than me.

81269 Stephen Hoffman, replying to Stephen Hoffman, 17, #334 of 1097 🔗

A grieving father whose wife died in childbirth conspires with his overzealous, servile household staff to turn his only son into a crippled invalid and keep him sheltered and isolated in his room forever, in order to preserve the memory of his dead mother. This is the plot of Frances Hodgson Burnett’s beloved children’s book, The Secret Garden . Everyone must mask up before being permitted in the presence of the closely-guarded child-prisoner.

We are the child, and our beneficent father, the all-loving state, looks out for us by reducing us to obedient cripples during the corona pandemic.

Agnieszka Holland’s 1993 movie-adaptation of the book contains some images of mask-madness that are striking and even chilling in the light of current events. The head housekeeper is played by the great Maggie Smith. Here is just one of the many chilling images from the film, which amounts to and indictment of shocking child abuse.

(PS: Check out Agnieszka Holland’s latest film, Mr. Jones, about the New York Times cover-up of the 1932 Soviet famine-genocide in the Ukraine, the Holodomor .)

(PPS, I tried to post a screen-grab of the best masked-cattle image from the film, but the comments section won’t let me.)

81353 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Stephen Hoffman, 1, #335 of 1097 🔗

Omg, yes!
That’s one of my favourite books, don’t know why I haven’t made the comparison yet!

81456 ▶▶▶ Stephen Hoffman, replying to Farinances, #336 of 1097 🔗

Here is the screen-grab of the image I was trying to post. The film is full of such unforgettable images.


81985 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stephen Hoffman, #337 of 1097 🔗
81905 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Stephen Hoffman, 1, #338 of 1097 🔗

Wowza!!! That’s a good point.

The book was one of my favourites and the 1993 film was one of my inspirations regarding the possibility of studying in the UK. Your post reminded me of the sinister overtones of the film and the eerie parallels now.

81274 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 8, #339 of 1097 🔗

Latest news from Ireland, as this week’s scripted local lockdown lunacy is implemented by the unelected government:


Three counties were placed in lockdown after workers tested positive in a number of meat processing factories.

TAOISEACH MICHEÁL MARTIN has said a “nuanced and more sustainable” approach to re-opening the country is needed. “We all need to understand that this virus is still a deep, urgent threat,” Martin said. “It is merciless and unrelenting. It won’t be a case of moving forwards step by step.”

So , unravelling that bit of verbal genius, I assume that will be one step forwards and two steps back?

There has been some backlash – Headline on thejournal.ie today:

‘High degree of anger’: Concerns over compliance as ‘arbitrary’ county boundaries used to impose local lockdownLocal TDs have been reacting to the latest restrictions imposed on Laois. Offaly and Kildare.
Oh, and just for good measure the lunatics have also decided to enforce muzzle wearing for secondary school pupils and staff. It was stated in the media that “Unions have largely welcomed the move.” – of course they have.

Have a nice weekend.

81288 ▶▶ Basics, replying to godowneasy, 9, #340 of 1097 🔗

Would a slogan on a mask such as ‘This is STUPID’ see pupils or teachers suspended I wonder.

Are those schools mandating a change of mask for each 40 minute session. Bio hazard bins in place. Risk assessed the breathing in of fibers from masks. Hand washing to be regular within class rooms?

By god I hope the true natural spirit of fight comes out in those oppressed children. They will instinctively find this is wrong.

81303 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 3, #341 of 1097 🔗

If worn during PE (if they still do PE), a mask could kill them. Unlikely, but has happened in China.

81351 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 6, #342 of 1097 🔗

The International Edinburgh Festival is online this year. Weedy and limp. The performances recored or live. The ballet or modern dance performers are masked. As is a solo Cellists – can cellos die of covid? Can I die from appaling virtue signalling? Back on point, those dancers wearing a mask – made me wonder what is in store for the Tour De France peloton.

81421 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to godowneasy, 1, #343 of 1097 🔗

I wonder what Micheal’s nickname will be – Brian Cowen’s was BIFFO (Big Ignorant Fucker From Offaly)

81525 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to mhcp, 1, #344 of 1097 🔗

I haven’t been in Ireland long enough to have a great insight but, from what I’ve seen so far, the word moron has to be in there somewhere?

81282 Stephen Hoffman, 1, #345 of 1097 🔗

Here is just one of many screen-grabs of masks fro the film: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3350010025019880&set=a.434558263231752

81287 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 9, #346 of 1097 🔗

Is it possible that we have pretty much all had the c19 cough and now the positive tests (excluding false ones) are just the virus coning around for another go but getting kicked to touch by our educated immune system?

81378 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Major Panic, 3, #347 of 1097 🔗

Yes this is certainly possible and I’ve wondered about this. Based on observations of antibody levels it looks like you might in theory be able to get a mild reinfection after only two or three months especially if the first infection was mild.

But there has not been a single documented case of a detectable reinfection and certainly what we’re seeing in the UK with testing is entirely consistent with everyone still having complete sterilising immunity from the first time around. So I think this is more likely.

You would expect a constant low level of completely new infections as the population is not static. The epidemic itself also has a long slow tail so we may not be quite at the final equilibrium level yet.

81427 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #348 of 1097 🔗

What would be the process for detecting and documenting a re infection, guy153? What would you see in the swabs/blood?

81466 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 2, #349 of 1097 🔗

If someone tested PCR positive, then got better and tested negative, and then sometime later (3 or 4 months, a year, etc.) was PCR positive again, that would be evidence of some kind of reinfection. Obviously you’d be looking for a decent sample of people this happened to to rule out false positives, anomalies etc.

If you did test positive most people wouldn’t go back for another test in 3 months. But many would– as someone was saying if you want to go to Croatia you need a negative test less than three days old.

Maybe this just hasn’t happened yet, but out of 20 million tests or so done world-wide, and with more and more people requiring tests for things, you might have expected it to if sterilising immunity only lasted a couple of months. I’m sure if there’s even a hint of it happening the media will pick up on it 🙂

We no doubt will see this happening eventually, but maybe it takes a year or so.

Swedenborg posted a link the other day about N antibodies vs Spike antibodies. The Spanish antibody tests were looking for the N ones, which have a shorter half-life (probably because there are more of them to start with– but then the test threshold is higher). But the spike antibodies (especially the RBD ones but other bits of spike work too) are the ones that actually neutralise the virus, and they had a much longer half-life. So you could be negative for N but have plenty of S antibodies still, and not get reinfected. “N” and “Spike” refer to the bits of the virus the antibodies are sticking to.

Here’s the link: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.07.16.20155663 , see Figure 2 especially.

It’s interesting actually that you get more N earlier and and a bit less of the (more effective) S later. The way it works is the first antibodies your body finds that match (randomly, but weighted by similarity to previous infections) start getting produced, and you start fighting the infection with them as soon as you can. But over the next few days you continue to develop more specific and effective antibodies in a process called “affinity maturation”. One of the reasons you end up with fewer of them is they are more effective– once you’ve cleared the infection you stop producing them. But the mechanism that keeps IgG antibodies sticking around gets saturated above a certain level– so those later, more effective, antibodies are the ones that have a longer half-life. They’re like that bottle of whisky in your drinks cupboard that has been there for ages because you only use a small amount at a time (well so one hopes) and it doesn’t take up much space. It’s a beautifully “designed” system.

81521 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to guy153, 2, #350 of 1097 🔗

Thank you for these great answers.

If someone is asymptomatic because of previous exposure to covid 19 or similar corona-virus/viruses, is it reasonable to suspect that they give off a far lower viral load than someone who becomes quite ill from the virus – and are therefore likely not particularly infectious?

81568 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Major Panic, 2, #351 of 1097 🔗

Yes I think that’s certainly reasonable. But there’s a tradeoff because if you’re quite ill you’re more likely to stay at home and therefore infect fewer people that way.

81576 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to guy153, 3, #352 of 1097 🔗

So ill people stay at home until better and well people chuck your masks in the bin and crack on with life – could someone tell Boris!

81534 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 3, #353 of 1097 🔗

Great, many thanks!

81416 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Major Panic, 1, #354 of 1097 🔗

Also the original idea was “if lots get it can we handle it?” The answer to that has been Yes from March. You could argue that it was always that.

We’re not in Kansas anymore

81290 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 35, #355 of 1097 🔗

I was on Brighton beach yesterday – lovely day out and the local business were very happy to see us. I did notice loads of photographers out with their zoom lenses, presumably trying to snap a contrived picture of the “over-crowded covidiots”. For comparison, here’s what it really looked like:

comment image

81318 ▶▶ Tangelo, replying to zacaway, 21, #356 of 1097 🔗

Yes people naturally distance themselves anyway. You wouldn’t just plonk your towel down right next to someone you’ve never seen before.

81405 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tangelo, 4, #357 of 1097 🔗

Good point.

81412 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tangelo, 2, #358 of 1097 🔗

You haven’t been to Bournemouth when it’s heaving. You literally plonk your towel down where you can

81337 ▶▶ Basics, replying to zacaway, 5, #359 of 1097 🔗

I’ve seen the togs out with their lens at the beach here. T &T keeps my camera phone at home these days, but if some one can catch the long shots being taken that woukd be a good image to get. We all know they are manipulating these images. Also the lack of spike after the beach, protests is now a realisation most people have.

The press can prevent 1.3 million people marchibg being widely know about. They can easily suggest an out cry about people at a beach. But really, is there an out cry?

81386 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to zacaway, 3, #360 of 1097 🔗

Is the haze of viral load above the beach goers being destroyed by the strong UV light from the sun?

81428 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to zacaway, 4, #361 of 1097 🔗

Well done. I live by the beach ( East Coast ) and have seen the crowds come and go. Yesterday was really busy, but even so, most people are in their groups.

Notice none of the press are using drone images

81911 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to zacaway, 2, #362 of 1097 🔗

That’s how its has always been – Covid 19 or no Covid 19. The media like to exaggerate and use dodgy camera techniques to shock and mislead people.

81291 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #363 of 1097 🔗

Northern Folks. There are quite a few newspaper articles about what you can and can’t do uunder local lockdown. I thought it would be helpful to collate and summarise these in a handy FAQ format, so here it is:

Q: What can I do during local lockdown?
A: Do anything you want to do!

Comes with free theme tune too:


81299 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #364 of 1097 🔗

Ah I thought your link would be to ‘Go where you wanna go” by The Mamas and Papas, mid 60s I think.

81440 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #365 of 1097 🔗

Manchester council is threatening to shut pubs and bars that don’t comply. Perhaps bring it on and the protests with soon get going here. Preston council think calling young folks granny killers is cute? FFS. More laws to be broken for me today. Such fun being a criminal

81293 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 7, #366 of 1097 🔗

If some people manage to avoid the virus, and therefore their immune systems will not have had the latest virus update, are these people potentially more vulnerable to any new nastier coronavirus that rocks up in the future?

81302 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Major Panic, 1, #367 of 1097 🔗

Not necessarily. There is no such thing as an immune system in the sense it is a single amorphous blob. It has several layers, with the top layer being the primitive innate system and the deepest level is the adaptive system.

81355 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Major Panic, 1, #368 of 1097 🔗

There’s a good chance of that yes.

SARS2 came from bats and apparently found it rather easy to infect humans right off the hop. There’s form too: the closely related SARS1 came from bats 17 years ago. Most if not all of the other coronaviruses that infect humans also came from bats.

Those bats and their viruses are still around. The bats are not wearing masks or using wing sanitizer. They don’t care about the 2m rule. They’re aren’t lining up in carparks to swab each other or locking each other down. Their viruses are mutating away.

The next virus to jump to humans from animals is therefore quite likely I would say to be a close relative to SARS2, and usually, the closer the better from the point of view of cross-immunity.

There is no guarantee of course but this is how things have evolved and our immune system is adapted to keeping up with whatever’s happening in the virosphere.

81306 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 6, #369 of 1097 🔗

There have been some good slogans for T-shirts etc but I remember a few weeks ago someone posting an image of the Ascent of Man from ape to human but with a sheep added. I’ve been trying to find it but have failed so far.

Can anyone else recall this?

81360 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to arfurmo, 1, #371 of 1097 🔗

Thanks, that’s it! This will wind up some sheeple I have the misfortune of knowing.

81992 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, #372 of 1097 🔗

I love these!

81409 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Biggles, 6, #373 of 1097 🔗

Saw one at the first London demo:- ‘I tested positive for common bloody sense’.

81310 Stephen Hoffman, 3, #374 of 1097 🔗

Here is a screengrab from movie I posted about 15 minutes ago:


81316 Pennyb, replying to Pennyb, 23, #376 of 1097 🔗

Visited a hairdresser yesterday for a much needed cut – horrendous experience. Temperature taken on arrival, my handbag had to be placed inside a disposable bag, then I was asked to sanitize my hands, then put on a disposable robe, face mask and gloves. As I was already beginning to overheat I refused the gloves stating there was a danger I may faint and that would be more problematical for them to deal with. The whole experience is one I won’t be repeating and this hairdressers will have no further business from me. There was only one other customer in the spacious salon at the time. Completely and utterly ridiculous and far from being a relaxing experience, it simply made me angry. Had I not been in such dire need, I would have walked away at the first sign of the temperature checker. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

81346 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Pennyb, 7, #377 of 1097 🔗

Especially since raised temperature has a poor specificity, any number of conditions can cause raised temperature, and not necessarily infection. I would be more concerned if they had a client who had a low temperature.

81400 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 5, #378 of 1097 🔗

Absolutely. We are living in Bonkers Land.

81532 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to p02099003, 4, #379 of 1097 🔗

Yes, pity the poor woman who experiences a ‘hot flush’ just at the wrong time..

81356 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Pennyb, 9, #380 of 1097 🔗

IME you need to find a mobile hairdresser. They are technically not obliged to follow all this shit as they are in your premises (I think). Mine has a visor thing she never wears (sceptical – good woman – and she has an auto-immune disease!) but carries for paranoid customers’ sake. Doesn’t make her customers do anything.

81367 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Pennyb, #381 of 1097 🔗

Grow dreadlocks

81372 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Pennyb, 5, #382 of 1097 🔗

Sounds like the rubbish here. Look on the bright side, perhaps your council will slap them with a licence fee for having outdoor seating like ours is: re. my post below … I bet you paid through the nose aswell for this awful service.

81375 ▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to Pennyb, 6, #383 of 1097 🔗

I’ve said it before but next time someone tries to take your temperature ask to see a calibration certificate for the thermometer.
I was working in Singapore when this kicked off and they used a non-contact thermometer to check people coming into the building – typical result for me should’ve led to me being rushed to hospital for treatment of hypothermia!

81387 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JimByJovi, 4, #384 of 1097 🔗

No temperature taken, no access to apple store here. The blacked masked door security goons told me this as they went about killing the apple brand.

81403 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 9, #385 of 1097 🔗

killing the apple brand”

… well, that could be the start of a proper recovery. 🙂

81842 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to RickH, #386 of 1097 🔗

too many fanbois.

a lot are snowflakes too

so only too happy to mask up and be ritually shot buy a big dude with a mask on (blm anyone?) to receive the apple

there’s occult symbology going on with covid I’m sure

I’m not that good at spotting it though

81381 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Pennyb, 2, #387 of 1097 🔗

Could a covid facts info sheet be useful after such experiences. Slipped under a door or posted without reply address.

You are right to boycott imo.

81325 Alison9, replying to Alison9, 9, #388 of 1097 🔗

Front page of the DT today, covid safe grouse shooting to commence on the 12th complete with social distancing and face masks – picture of group of country gent types with what appear to be tweed masks (matching their outfits)!

Two observations – tweed is surely one of the last fabrics you would chose for a face mask – highly ineffective and itchy. This is one for the cameras, no way they’re staying on once the shooters are out on the moor.

When will the madness end? No end in sight, I’m afraid.

81371 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Alison9, 5, #389 of 1097 🔗

Mental. Isn’t tweed pretty water-proof (and air proof)

81918 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Alison9, #390 of 1097 🔗

I reckon they would have a hypoxic or hypercapina attack before managing to bag any grouse.


81996 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, #391 of 1097 🔗

Hopefully that will cause them to bag each other!

82073 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, #392 of 1097 🔗

It’s a put-up job by the grouse.

81995 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alison9, #393 of 1097 🔗

Those people are so thick-skinned they won’t notice the tweed muzzles!

82315 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Alison9, #394 of 1097 🔗

Yes, well I hope these shooters die of asphyxiation and the birds escape

81336 Jay Berger, 2, #395 of 1097 🔗


The real reason for the media and establishment fatwa against HCQ, of course.

81345 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #396 of 1097 🔗

The Germans have sent the jury out for deliberation on their approach. One juror has returned their verdict (I believe this one is peer reviewed):

A phenomenological approach to assessing the effectiveness of COVID-19 related nonpharmaceutical interventions in Germany

6. Conclusions This study finds clear evidence of a decline of SARS-CoV-2 infections in Germany at the beginning of March 2020, which can be attributed to relatively small nonpharmaceutical interventions (cancellation of mass events) and voluntary behavioural changes. A trend change of infections from exponential growth to decay was not induced by the “lockdown” measures but occurred earlier. Additional impacts of later NPIs cannot be clearly detected

81399 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #397 of 1097 🔗

Of course, the truth about Lock-Ups is now firmly established – except in the minds of the venal and the stupid (two groups currently in lock-step).

However, this phrase needs correcting : “ A trend change of infections from exponential growth to decay” – the growth of infection however never was, and never is, ‘exponential’.It doesn’t happen – it’s an illusion gained from looking at a small part of an overall curve when an infection is in a stage of growth. Any decent epidemiologist should know that – only bumbling modelers don’t (if the cap fits ….).

81513 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to RickH, 2, #398 of 1097 🔗

Excellent point thanks, embedding the scary ‘e’ word has been a great propaganda success.

81352 stewart, replying to stewart, 3, #399 of 1097 🔗

This is not a conspiracy theory, simply an observation.

China has demonstrated so far to have a level of social control and autarchy that permits it to control and suppress a new biological threat, like a virus, without much economic or social disruption.

Western liberal democracies (or what is left of them) have shown they definitely don’t.

That’s an uncomfortable thought when considering the growing geo-political tension between China and “the west”.

81385 ▶▶ Mark, replying to stewart, 1, #400 of 1097 🔗

That’s a more complicated question than it might appear, however.

Did China actually “ control and suppress a new biological threat, like a virus, without much economic or social disruption”? I’m not sure that’s correct, on several counts.

Then there’s the question of whether a liberal democracy (insofar as we are still either of those things, and for whatever they are worth in practice) could “control and suppress” such a threat.

Consider this; if this disease really had been as killy as ebola, how would our response have been different? Yes, our government and media reacted hysterically, but the reality is that people from the first saw through it to some extent, because the info was there from the start to refute such ideas.

Personally, I think the effectiveness of the response would have been much greater had the threat been real. Clearly a deadly new disease on that scale is the nightmare scenario, but I see no convincing reason to suppose that the Chinese response would necessarily have been more effective at limiting the damage.

81393 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 7, #401 of 1097 🔗

The thing is that this is a pandemic of the mind, not the body, and there’s some very murky stuff going on that drives it at different levels and originates from a number of interest groups

81809 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #402 of 1097 🔗

Agreed. I don’t tend to see the hand of Chine behind that, though. Seems pretty self-inflicted to me.

81593 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark, 1, #403 of 1097 🔗

I think you are missing the speed and efficiency with which Chinese authorities are able to (a) detect and (b) move to contain a new biological threat. This is real and makes them much more capable than us in dealing with these threats.

Their ability to do so rests on a level of control of its population and relevant agencies and now also of its borders that leaders in western countries could only dream about (for now) and which those of us on here fear are coming.

The broader point though is that China is doing what Chinese do very well which is to manoeuvre its way into a position of leverage. They’ve quietly occupied the South China Sea with military bases. In just over a decade, they’ve implemented the most extensive and profound internal surveillance system in the world. They are rapidly rebalancing their economy away from trade towards internal production and consumption. And they have successfully tried and tested their response to a biological attack.

Meanwhile here in the west we are in the middle of an existential crisis. We are unclear of who we are and what we stand for. Our governments are adopting the actions of totalitarian regimes and we are all turning our backs on the principles of freedom and individuality which have served us so well.

In short, the Chinese (government) know what they are about and have a plan and we are in an existential crisis.

81745 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stewart, 1, #404 of 1097 🔗

The Chinese still had an uncontrolled epidemic of this not very dangerous disease, that turned over at its peak in much the same way ours did, and there’s a suspicion that where they supposedly didn’t it was just because they didn’t bother testing and put deaths down to general respiratory illnesses. Plus there’s widespread distrust of Chinese figures anyway. So as far as I can see there’s no evidence they can easily contain viruses of this kind. Least of all “without much social and economic disruption” – on the contrary they have faced very significant disruption to both.

The Chinese are taking their place as the globally dominant power replacing the US, a process that will most likely occur over the next decade or two, hopefully without a major war as usually accompanied such shifts pre-nuclear peace. We will have to come to terms with that, much as the world had to come to terms with US dominance in the C20th and British dominance before that. What I see no signs of them being is evil geniuses different from any other human government in history. Corrupt, dangerous, scheming, mass murderous, yes – as are all governments, very much including ours and the US.

81825 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to stewart, 1, #405 of 1097 🔗

Your fundamental point is a good one, but it misses a number of things. I’ll limit myself to two quickish ones, because otherwise I’ll be writing this all day.

The first is that the fundamentals of the Chinese economy still rest on offshored and outsourced manufacturing. This supports them both through large scale employment opportunities and through the opportunity to steal IP. I’m directly aware of at least 2 high-tech US firms who are quietly, but rapidly moving their (substantial) China-based manufacturing facilities into other, more politically acceptable countries as a result of this crisis and I’ve no doubt that many others are also doing the same. This isn’t a killing blow, but it will hurt China without a doubt.

The second (on the other side) is the degree to which China has colonized the third world and done so without anybody paying very much attention. Where we and the EU and the US have given unconditional aid (mostly swallowed up into the bank accounts of dictators), China has bought up their natural resources.

But yes, we’ve created from nowhere an existential crisis in the face of an existential threat (hint: I’m not talking about a virus).

81354 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 22, #406 of 1097 🔗

Morning fellow sceptics! It’s your intrepid travel correspondent reporting (maskless) from Stansted airport on our way for a holiday with all offspring and grandchildren- 13 of us from 4 households.

First of all Boris and his Merry men have been hugely successful in screwing the travel industry; I’ve never seen the airport so quiet- we used to have a holiday house in France and used to travel to Carcassonne frequently. We got through security in 5 minutes with no-one in front of us in the queue. Looking at the departure boards I would guess there are fewer than 25% of the flights I’d expect in August- all the flights between 10.45 and 16.00 are on 3 screens. At least half the seats in the departure lounge are unoccupied.

Sadly apart from temporary removal of masks whilst eating and drinking, I’ve only seen one other person without a mask. No-one has challenged me or the current Mrs DocRC about our lack of masks and no funny looks – many people look away.

81357 ▶▶ annie, replying to DocRC, 12, #407 of 1097 🔗

Have a great time, show your faces, live it up!

81358 Ross Hendry, replying to Ross Hendry, 17, #408 of 1097 🔗

The so called “idiots” flocking to the beaches still retain the sense common to most of humanity – sunlight is the best disinfectant AND sunbathing is pleasurable into the bargain.

This sense has been absent from the word go among our leaders and pathetic bedwetters everywhere. Let these plonkers have their masks, gloves and social distances if they must but count the rest of us out.

81691 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Ross Hendry, 1, #409 of 1097 🔗

Not into beaches myself, despite living in Bournemouth, but 2 or 3 hours on the allotment gets me plenty of that sunshine disinfectant. Plus the earth on my hands will probably kill any nasty bugs floating around.

81364 annie, replying to annie, 21, #410 of 1097 🔗

Non amo te, Sabidi…

Oh how I loathe the zombie race,
Its dead-eyed, noseless, mouthless face.
I wish that it were not a sin
To smash that stupid face right in.

81760 ▶▶ DomW, replying to annie, #411 of 1097 🔗


81377 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 33, #412 of 1097 🔗

My son was talking yesterday to his lifelong mate who moved to rural Victoria, Australia, a few years ago. Note: rural Victoria: the outback. Now this mate is a beer swilling, lairy, one-of-the-lads type of fella. He told my son he’s in favour of the severe lockdown there, because he’s terrified of getting the virus. My son, exasperated, said “Mate, your brain has gone soft. You are surrounded by lethal snakes and spiders, but your terrified of something which is unlikely to do you any harm!”

81390 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Aremen, 13, #413 of 1097 🔗

That’s precisely how it works – bypassing all critical faculties and pressing the button of irrational phobia.

81391 ▶▶ annie, replying to Aremen, 12, #414 of 1097 🔗

Yes, it’s a curious disjunct. My riding instructor is the same. Thirty-something, healthy, fit, goes kayaking in white water, absolutely fearless with horses, quakes at Covid.

81503 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to annie, 1, #415 of 1097 🔗

It’s mad. I’ve had all of my worst injuries from horse riding. Worst in the sense that they took many months of recovery. And these were just falling off and hurting something or pulling my shoulder out. That one was on an ex-police horse (17 hander), brilliant animal. But I’d be riding for 2 years and still learning. He saw a shadow when we were doing our jumps and all he did was side step briefly. I’d just tightened the reins a touch. Didn’t think anything of it until the next day I felt like I’d been run over.

Horses are fantastic but like you say, it’s a live animal and you can get hurt or killed

81943 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 1, #416 of 1097 🔗

And yet I ride.
I know the risk.
I take it.
I live.

81435 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Aremen, 8, #417 of 1097 🔗

I’m assuming this is a fairly young man. This baffles me, surely everyone knows by now that unless you’re elderly or have a serious health condition, you are very unlikely to get seriously ill.

I was thinking about this the other day and it could be something that has come to be known as safetyism. When we were kids we were allowed to go to the park on our own, walk to school etc. Now, almost all kids are driven everywhere for fear of being abducted (no more likely than in the past, just reported more), or being run over, OK lots more traffic. Trouble is, they never learn road safety as we did or street smarts.

Going on to further education, they now can’t hear from anyone who has a different opinion from themselves without wilting like week old flowers.

Maybe that’s the problem.

81462 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Laura Suckling, 9, #418 of 1097 🔗

I agree. Safetyism is a serious condition and can be brought on through over exposure to social media and the MSM.

On the flip side, I became infected with skepticism.

I think I contracted it at an early age when I was taught science at school. Then, I struggled to reconcile what I had been told at all the church services I had to attend up until the age of 15. Did God create us or did we really descend from apes?

My skepticism became progressively worse as I got older, but really took hold when Tony Blair became PM and took us to war in Iraq on the basis of non-existent WMD and a sexed-up dossier that began the downfall of the BBC.

My skepticism has now become uncontrollable and no amount of propaganda from the MSM can do anything to alleviate it.

My symptoms do however subside somewhat through regular sessions with Lockdown Skeptics anonymous. I am truly grateful and can now see myself continuing these daily sessions for the rest of my life.

81471 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Howie59, 3, #419 of 1097 🔗

Yes, I think we can safely say, all here are infected – thank goodness for that!

81499 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Laura Suckling, 12, #420 of 1097 🔗

Yes, his mate is 31.

It’s the Nanny State, and the snowflake culture. “I must be protected from, well, anything! Anything which offends me, frightens me, challenges me, makes me feel uncomfortable.

Except the things I want to carry on doing, like smoking skunk, dangerous sports, etc, in which case you are violating my freedom and disrespecting me”.

81395 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 11, #421 of 1097 🔗

‘Starmer overtakes Johnson as voters’ choice of prime minister’

Well that’s a shot in the arm for those of those who want to see an end to this madness!—Just what we’ve been waiting for I’m sure!

Apparently, we now have a Labour leader who is only too happy to ‘kneel’ and likes being photographed next to a cast member from Star wars whom the great British public would prefer to the very worst Prime minister this country has ever produced.
Hardly a ringing endorsement for Starmer. More like: anyone but Johnson and seeing as Starmer is leader of the Labour party it would seem to be him.

Our political party system is well and truly bust. Where are the Franklin Roosevelts, the Winston Churchills? towering statesmen who came to the fore when their countries were in great peril. Our country is in great peril and we have Johnson being overtaken by Starmer in the polls! It’s enough to make any sane person weep.

81411 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #422 of 1097 🔗

Yup, pretty dire! I practically spelled out to him what to do in a letter I sent months ago, instead he continues to support the government. He wouldn’t have acted any differently and might have even made things worse, supporting the teaching unions more for one thing.

81441 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #423 of 1097 🔗

Never believe the polls.

81484 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #424 of 1097 🔗

All pretty predictable. The engineering of Corbyn’s replacement (using wholesale press propaganda as was rolled out again for Covid) was to create another establishment-friendly puppet – not an ‘opposition’ in any real sense.

This isn’t about party politics, or the quality of Corbyn – it’s just about the way the control that we see visibly now in relation to Covid operates.

The sewer rats are stinking all over the place in British politics.

81397 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 37, #425 of 1097 🔗

Yesterday, I apparently shocked two people “to the core” by expanding on a reader’s comment I saw in the Spectator which suggested that the reason we’re in this mess is the existence of the NHS. I went as far as suggesting that the lovely, cosy, traditional NHS might end up being the catalyst that results in the breakdown of society and, who knows, civil war, starvation, riots, sickness, a fascist government.

In this ‘crisis’, the government has used the NHS to, effectively, blackmail the population (“Save the NHS”) and has used it as an excuse to remove individual autonomy. Over-70s cannot choose to live out their final years as they see fit because if they indulge in ‘risky’ behaviour, they might end up taking up beds in Our NHS. The NHS has a quasi-religious function as well as delivering health care, and a government acting in bad faith can exploit this. The clapping ritual – and abuse of people who chose not to clap – was chilling.

And there’s something similar with the BBC. Because it’s a national broadcaster, and again has this quasi-religious function, it ends up unable to broadcast anything but, effectively, government propaganda. Sure, it thinks it’s giving the government a hard time by suggesting that the lockdown should have been brought in sooner etc., but the government is laughing at it. The BBC cannot do anything but agree with the principle of the lockdown itself, and the taking away of the people’s autonomy, because of its position as national broadcaster.

It wasn’t my aim to suggest that the NHS and BBC are bad per se. Merely that it may turn out that their existence results in extremely ironic consequences.

81430 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #426 of 1097 🔗

I fully agree with you. The NHS is also not fit for purpose. During lockdown people did not have access to non-covid health care. We still struggle to get access to required healthcare. How can we trust a healthcare system that can open and close the ‘access’ at will?

People think they have access to free health. No they don’t. It is not really free, people think the Government pay for it. Guess what, it is taxpayers money.

Health care is also rationed, you might not get the treatment you need and sometimes you will need to wait for 2 years before you can get it.


  • You are critically sick with Covid, but the NHS we will not treat you with HCQ Plus Zinc
  • You are critically sick with Sepsis and risk losing your life or limbs but the NHS will not treat you with Dr Marik’s protocol of Hydrocortisone, Intravenous Vitamin C and Thiamin
  • We want to be healthy but the NHS will not be proactive by optimising our vitamin D levels
  • We want to be healthy but the NHS will not fix nutrient deficiencies, in fact nutrition is not even ‘covered’
81522 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 8, #427 of 1097 🔗

As it is often said, the NHS is such a great system that *no other country* has chosen to try and replicate it!!!

81572 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, 1, #428 of 1097 🔗

NHS treatments get a cost benefit analysis (QALYs). If you disagree with it you can go private. And buy your own vitamin and mineral supplements. No harm in the placebo effect, either, it’s a useful thing.

81789 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Victoria, 2, #429 of 1097 🔗

Before all this bullshit hit the fan, I’d been advising my physical therapy clients that we would all have to become our own doctors in the near future. The NHS would collapse sooner or later. (Now we know: sooner!)

That time has now arrived. Big Time!!!

A doctor may be needed for A&E, crisis management, and diagnostic testing, but for the treatment of chronic (long term) illness – which takes up at least 80% of all healthcare – any reasonably intelligent person can take care of their own type 2 diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, autoimmune disease, migraines etc. etc.

Even cancer treatments can be done by the person themselves, with outcomes probably at least as good as conventional “cut, burn & poison”. (My old acquaintance the late Gerald Green, a self taught herbalist, cured many “sent home to die” cancer patients with an inexpensive regime of herbs and diet. His book “Breaking Through the Untouchable Diseases” is still available.)

There are tremendous resources in terms of books and YouTube videos, often written/presented by qualified medics or other professionals.

I learned this lesson over 30 years ago when some fairly simple self-help advice I gave to clients suffering from conditions ranging from schizophrenia to rheumatoid arthritis to ulcerative colitis to migraine to psoriasis, resulted in a complete turn-around of the problems which had defeated the best efforts (IOW the Magic Patent Pharma Pills) of their hospital consultants. (I did this as a “freebie” for these clients while sorting out their bad backs.)

These days, with the internet, people can find all this stuff out for themselves and become their own physicians.

As I said above, any reasonably intelligent person can do this. Unfortunately, as we have seen, reasonably intelligent people are in short supply, and most people are helpless without their White Coated Authority Figure to do their thinking for them.

82334 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Gracie Knoll, #430 of 1097 🔗

Excellent advice, well said.

81436 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #431 of 1097 🔗

Isn’t it interesting though how it’s like this here, and yet countries with an arguably way more ‘left-wing’ socialised system of government (Scandinavia! ) have survived unscathed?

I find it so interesting. It’s the politicisation I think. In Sweden the health service is just the health
service. It serves its people. Here, the health service is the golden calf of political discourse. It is holy. It wins and loses elections.

Difference is the political system. A system where nobody really ‘rules’ (PR) versus an adversarial one where one has to use national ‘assets’ like the NHS politically to gain and retain power.

81523 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 9, #432 of 1097 🔗

The Swedish healthcare system is also adapted and to a large extent governed regionally..

It is also contributory (with limits so no one pays more than a set maximum per year which in my area is 1150 kr per year). If you have greater needs in a particular year then treatment becomes free above the set maximum. There are systems in place to limit wastage and make sure people value it. Eg, even if you are on benefits and therefore not paying for treatment yourself, you *do* have to pay if you just fail to turn up for a booked appointment. People get fined if they miss booked appointments (without cancelling in advance), and the benefits system will not pay such fines!

My mum used to work in outpatients clinics in the UK and she said that on any day as many as a quarter of patients just did not turn up..

81566 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Carrie, 3, #433 of 1097 🔗

Ah that actually makes sense. So Sweden disincentivises people just wandering in by having to pay a small amount. But then for the less often more important stuff you’ve already paid.

81474 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #434 of 1097 🔗

Hobby-horses are fine – but they go nowhere.

It isn’t the fundamental nature of the NHS or the BBC that’s the problem – it’s the distorting political influence on them.

The real drivers of this come from big global capital – not public enterprises.

81778 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #435 of 1097 🔗

It isn’t the fundamental nature of the NHS or the BBC that’s the problem – it’s the distorting political influence on them.

On the contrary, it is precisely their fundamental natures that make them problematic.

The BBC is a problem because it is grossly enlarged by having a secure state-mandated income flow, and it has a credibility as a supposedly unbiased national institution (that we have seen over the coronapanic is the opposite of reality) that makes it especially damaging as a purveyor of propaganda.

The NHS similarly is inherently damaging because it collectivises the cost of healthcare, allowing people to argue that people taking risks with their own health are “harming others”. If healthcare were funded by genuine charity rather than coerced “charity” that would not be an issue. It also gives rise to a centrally controlled monolith that is extremely vulnerable to disastrously counterproductive central government dictats, as occurred in this case.

Certainly there are countervailing benefits to the NHS (less so the BBC), but claiming these inherent negative aspects don’t exist is just wrong. Though you can of course argue that you don’t see them as negatives, since many people actually love central authority control, and many also love excuses to dictate how others live their lives.

81587 ▶▶ Mike Collins, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #436 of 1097 🔗

Roll on the inquiry, although I doubt a sceptic will be involved. I’m sure it will praise the NHS to the hilt despite the fact they they were the reservoir of infection that killed most over the over 80’s.

81747 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #437 of 1097 🔗

I can’t disagree about the NHS, although as an American, it pains me to think of the UK with an American-style system. I’ve lived with that monstrosity (and have permanently damaged joints as souvenirs). And I’d hate to see as many sick poor people out and about as you typically see in the States – I’m talking untreated facial tumours and the like.

But the NHS is Brits’ Achilles’ heel. All that ride in taking care of the majority of the population – which is now disappearing as people realise how many people have been left to their own fate.

82325 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Barney McGrew, #438 of 1097 🔗

Even Private Eye called it a National Sickness Service

81398 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 24, #439 of 1097 🔗

Went out last night, Me and Mrs 2-6 were pleased to see a pub we used to go to for Sunday Lunch has opened again. In we went, all looked pretty normal, two pints of Ice Cold Guiness please, bar lady pours out nearly two full pints, they didn’t take cash…..We had no cards….No beer for us…..

The pub was almost empty, two less customers. FFS

Went down the road to an out of town pub, closed, went back into town, went to a spoons, terrible, the line for the bar was HUGE, stretching outside and round the corner a 40 min wait to be served.

Town is terrible, all the pubs are crap, masked up waitresses doing table service bookings required, at the spoons, order with their spoons app, which registered you with the NHS track n trace.

What is the point of going to a pub? No chance of talking to people.

We went to a local park, loads of kids out and about having fun in the dark after midnight.

81407 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Two-Six, 3, #440 of 1097 🔗


81426 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Two-Six, 5, #441 of 1097 🔗

Ice cold Guinness.


81431 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 1, #442 of 1097 🔗

Hmmm, I haven’t been forced to use the Wethy’s app so far, I’ve paid cash with no hassle. However, it might change round here. Just had trouble posting something, if I can get it on, it will explain.

81482 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #443 of 1097 🔗

we weren’t forced to use the app but it would make getting drinks so much easier. The penalty for not using the app is considerable in waiting times for a pint.

81507 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 1, #444 of 1097 🔗

Good news. The wait is a pain, but maybe the queue at Wethy’s shows people were refusing the other joints?

81510 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, #445 of 1097 🔗

More price related I’d expect

81563 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Two-Six, 1, #446 of 1097 🔗

And they didn’t think to mention the card-only policy when you arrived! Gonna be quite a few wasted pints.

81401 microdave, replying to microdave, 16, #447 of 1097 🔗

Can someone explain why people who clearly aren’t bothered about anti-social distancing, or wearing muzzles on the beach, suddenly become totally compliant when they go shopping? Is it because there isn’t (yet) any compulsion to do so?

81424 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to microdave, 9, #448 of 1097 🔗

Yep. This is what’s so ridiculous about it. One week, they’re perfectly happy not wearing anything. The next, it’s a rule and they’re all obeying. Not only that, many of them are legitimising something they weren’t doing voluntarily the week before! by shaming others who aren’t doing it.

But then again, honestly I think the
true mask Karens are a minority. The vast majority are just followers scared of being fined
Which explains why most of us haven’t had any (too) negative
encounters when going maskless

81520 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 3, #449 of 1097 🔗

Seriously, if masks are imposed on outside areas such as beaches, I think people will not comply – it will be just too uncomfortable. And all the young who are doing it to virtue-signal are also an age group who tend to be obsessed with their appearance – who wants a half-tanned face with mask lines?

81740 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Farinances, #450 of 1097 🔗

There’s a British expression that comes to mind. (I’m American and a dual citizen).

“Go along to get along.” Not something you’d expect to ever hear in the States.

81406 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 16, #451 of 1097 🔗

If the highly anticipated devastating second wave did not materialise after the beaches were packed during sunny spells over the last few months – why would it appear now?

81464 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Major Panic, 3, #452 of 1097 🔗

People not wearing their masks, obviously. Never mind we didn’t have the rule back in the days of the great catastrophe of Bournemouth (which never happened). When you haven’t worn your mask to shop and subsequently go to the beach, well you’re 50% more likely to pass on the virus.

And what I have typed above makes about as much sense as the stupid rules we are living under today.

81556 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #453 of 1097 🔗

A lot of those very same people who were mixing on the beach wear masks in shops.

81569 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to mhcp, 1, #454 of 1097 🔗

So they aren’t covid bedwetters but they also aren’t brave enough to be the odd one out….

81627 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Major Panic, 1, #455 of 1097 🔗

Not only that. They were semi naked sweating it out on the beach then walk into a shop with a mask on

81818 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to mhcp, 2, #456 of 1097 🔗

Mask and speedos is a good look. Classy.

81628 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to mhcp, 2, #457 of 1097 🔗

I bet they do. Could be they just don’t want the ear bashing from the Karens though. Must be really horrible if your name is Karen at the moment.

81581 ▶▶▶ Mike Collins, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #458 of 1097 🔗

You’d have to walk past 5000 people to find 1 possible infection. If you’re under 60 the risk of dying from it is about the same as being run over. Grow up, get rational, the countries going to ruin.

81635 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Mike Collins, 1, #459 of 1097 🔗

If only other people realised this. I encountered my first ‘swerver’ for a while yesterday and a mask wearer in my local shop. Sadly, both young women.

81779 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mike Collins, 2, #460 of 1097 🔗

More like 1,900 people than 5000?:
Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), based on household surveys, reveal that from 27 July – 2 August about 1 in 1,900 individuals had Covid-19, with 3,700 new cases per day.

The figures are lower than in the previous week (20-26 July), when about 1 in 1,500 individuals were thought to have Covid-19, with 4,200 new cases a day. But they remain higher than 13-19 July when 1 in 2,000 individuals were thought to be infected, with 2,800 new infections a day.
But the numbers are so low anyway it’s not worth putting money on…

81420 Jay Berger, 5, #461 of 1097 🔗


Why the PCR tests are bogus.
Meaning that all decisions taken upon their results were and are completely

81429 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #462 of 1097 🔗

The story is changing.
Long Covid is being recognised as a medical condition. That is all the debilitating long term effects of a covid infection are now to be diagnosed as long covid. Including stress and anxiety. There is an evil bastard out of liverpool who is the poster boy for this latest shift in the narrative.
Firat 10 minutes of this describe what is happening. Richie Allen msm sources included:

Important development.

81446 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 9, #463 of 1097 🔗

FFS. In that case I have Long Flu From 2018 🙄 🙄

Close the fucking country down every flu season to protect my ass.

81450 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Farinances, 8, #464 of 1097 🔗

Close the world down, just in case.

81448 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Basics, 8, #465 of 1097 🔗

Gotta keep that fear going……It’s not as if, if your have a serious virus you ever get some fatigue and other symptoms afterwards is it? No, it is something special to do with the Covid.

81463 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Basics, 2, #466 of 1097 🔗

You’ve just noticed. We’ve been in Clown World for the last year

81530 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mhcp, 2, #467 of 1097 🔗

Not just noticed. This has been much much longer in the making than a year.

81506 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 4, #468 of 1097 🔗

So, when you go to the doctors with stress, anxiety, depression and panic attacks, the previous method of just prescribing random anti-depressants will now be replaced with “this is classic long COVID, you need to have the vaccine and this will resolve all your issues.”

Quite obvious to see where this is going.

81565 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Basics, 1, #470 of 1097 🔗

I’ll have a listen to that, thanks. I had noticed this change in the narrative over the past couple of weeks.

81585 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Basics, 1, #471 of 1097 🔗

Just listened – really really worth it.

81730 ▶▶ Felice, replying to Basics, 1, #472 of 1097 🔗

Ironically, I have 2 friends who, many years ago, got a nasty virus whilst living in Brunei. Although they recovered from the virus without too much trouble, they were then laid really low with ME for months on end. Would the doctors take any notice? No, just told them to stop malingering. About 10 years later, same with another friend.

So when the hype started up about the long term effects of recovering from a bout of a severe virus, I had a hollow laugh and thought that maybe, at long last, doctors just might start to take ME and PVFS seriously.

Now I’m worried it’s going to go too far the other way…..

81987 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Felice, #473 of 1097 🔗

Yes. ME sufferers have had many many years of not being believed by doctors and therefore others.

82015 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #474 of 1097 🔗

I’ve had ME for over 30 years. I was very lucky that my GP was great – though he couldn’t help me other than by writing sick notes when needed.

Significant that the evil Simon Wessely, the CBT psychologist who caused so much suffering for ME patients, was involved in this SAGE document:

81432 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 21, #475 of 1097 🔗

Who the fuck does this prick think he is?

Mystery shopping’ will be used in Greater Manchester as part of targeted enforcement against pubs, bars and restaurants failing to follow new lockdown restrictions.The region’s mayor Andy Burnham has received reports that some licensed premises are failing to take the details of customers to comply with contact tracing rules.

While the public has been urged to report any non-compliant businesses, the authorities are planning to employ people to pose as secret shoppers to follow up on any complaints.
Under the new restrictions announced by the government last week separate households are not allowed to visit indoor venues together, including home visits.
Staff working at the establishments will not be expected to ‘interrogate’ people to check if they are in the same household or bubble.

Speaking at a press conference yesterday (Wednesday 5 August), Mr Burnham announced that there will be targeted enforcement on those found to be repeatedly flouting the restrictions.
He said: “If pubs are failing to take people’s details when they arrive, and we are receiving lots of reports that it’s still variable, then we will use targeted enforcement or mystery shopping to ensure all premises are maintaining the right procedures.”

Last time I looked, T &T was voluntary, according to government (non-statutory) guidance.

81438 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 19, #476 of 1097 🔗

Ooh, there’s more!

Enforcement will also stretch to home visits should the evidence back it up, added Mr Burnham.

Try it, pal. Make my day.

81445 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #477 of 1097 🔗

Hope Tim Martin speaks out and some others. Perhaps the more draconian the measures the sooner the protests and tide turn.

81457 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendy, 4, #478 of 1097 🔗

IIRC (can’t be arsed looking again), the new ‘guidance’ for the Naughty North doesn’t change anything about T&T. And the new law doesn’t mention it, either, it only relates to homes and gardens. So what is Burnham basing his diktat on?

81519 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #479 of 1097 🔗

He’s basing it on people being too stupid to know the difference, and scaring them into complying..

81533 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 1, #480 of 1097 🔗

As usual.

82017 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #481 of 1097 🔗


81492 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to wendy, 3, #482 of 1097 🔗

‘spoons has a box of chits and pencils at door and a box to post them in on way out. ‘Reasonable measures’, the bar staff aren’t PCSOs.

81500 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #483 of 1097 🔗

And that’s fine by me. You can obviously ignore it, or lie. Wethy’s have discharged their responsibility. But if councils or Burnham’s hit squads lean on ’em, who knows? There’s the big hammer – ‘licensing’.

81551 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #484 of 1097 🔗

Find the mystery shopper’s chit and send the boys round.

81502 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendy, #485 of 1097 🔗

Why would he speak out, him and Boris are big chums.

81786 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 2, #486 of 1097 🔗

He made his views clear back in March, when it might have actually counted. Since then he’s had to cave in, but it’s pretty obvious he thinks it’s a load of bollocks.

Wetherspoon’s Tim Martin attacks coronavirus ‘lockdown’
JD Wetherspoon Chairman Tim Martin has criticised the government’s measures to limit the spread of coronavirus after the tougher guidance hit his company’s share price.

Martin said the government had made an error by telling people not to go to pubs or restaurants. He said Prime Minister Boris Johnson should have stuck to his plan to build “herd immunity”, which suits the UK’s “robust instincts”.
He issued his statement after the company’s shares lost a fifth of their value in morning trading after Johnson issued his guidance. At 12:09 GMT Wetherspoon shares had edged back slightly to 596.5p but were still down 16%.
Wetherspoon’s maverick founder said the prime minister should copy the Netherlands’ approach, which accepts that most people will get the virus. A “lockdown” of activity for 12 weeks will result in a further outbreak of infections in July, he said, citing comments from a professor at Imperial College London.
“The Dutch approach has the additional advantage of being in tune with the robust instincts of the nation,” Martin said on Tuesday. “This is evidenced by Wetherspoon sales which have been positive in the last few weeks in spite of storms and health scares .””

Credit where it’s due.

81468 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #487 of 1097 🔗

This is gonna be like poll tax.

Everyone is gonna ignore everyone in power. – Eventually anyway. We will end up with a situation where the gvt. is saying things, the public is taking absolutely no notice, so they threaten the public, the public take even less notice, they can’t enforce it, and the whole country becomes a nation of law breakers.

Which basically means we’ve kicked them out of power and they’re just stood ranting on podiums but nobody’s listening.

81531 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Farinances, 4, #488 of 1097 🔗

That’s happening now in people’s personal lives but they have a hold over the business world and public bodies.

81682 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #489 of 1097 🔗

Public bodies are a lost cause – but quite frankly they have bene for decades. We can live without them until they turn.

Business is what needs swaying but the only thing that’s gonna do that is money continually falling down the drain. Which is happening on a daily basis so….. we’ll see how long they can hack it before collapsing. By collapsing I mean just not enforcing any of the rules at all. – This is already happening actually but they’re still keeping up the pretence for now.

81677 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 3, #490 of 1097 🔗

It’s happening. Just veeeeeeeeeeeeeery slowly.

81791 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 2, #491 of 1097 🔗

The difference from the poll tax is that there is no opposition party willing and able to exploit and foment resistance. Note that it’s a Labour politician doing this latest abomination, and Labour’s criticism throughout has been that the “Conservatives” didn’t lock down soon enough or hard enough.

81479 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #492 of 1097 🔗

So they’re going to pay people to grass while others have had their pay cut. Fantastic idea Andy, nothing like efficient use of tax payers money

81517 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #493 of 1097 🔗

Exactly, it is guidance, not law – so won’t they be acting illegally if they try this?

81537 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #494 of 1097 🔗

Would that by any chance be the same Andy Burnham who (as Health Secretary) presided over the Stafford Hospital Scandal ?

81541 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #495 of 1097 🔗

It’s certainly the same one that’s cosied up to Oldham Council to water down grooming gang enquires.

82016 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #496 of 1097 🔗

Yes. Can’t really pin this one on de Piffle and Poppycock.

81437 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 16, #497 of 1097 🔗

Any bets for how long it will take the majority of the population to realise that there’s something “a bit fishy” going on?

Just been into B and M with OH and grandson. We were the only three in there unmasked-apart from all the staff that is. Doesn’t it ever occur to the muzzleots that the staff there are in contact with far more strangers than they are during the course of a day but they don’t have to wear a mask. Will they ever ask why not?

81442 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 10, #498 of 1097 🔗

No, you see the plastic screen protects them, and it keeps working as they walk back to the warehouse or to the next till. Honest.

81497 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, 15, #499 of 1097 🔗

Talking to a lot of folk around where I live they all seem to feel that something is wrong, but they have a mental block about doing anything about it. I think it’s a British problem, that they’re too embarrassed to say it and stand out from the crowd, and not wanting to cause any trouble.

81668 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to JohnB, 1, #500 of 1097 🔗

The larger part of the problem these days is that people fritter most of their energies online. Exorcise themselves, and actually do nothing.

81639 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Margaret, 3, #501 of 1097 🔗

Apologies if other have already posted links to this article, but reading the comments on this Daily Mail article, it certainly sounds like some kind of critical mass has been achieved.

Lockdown ‘killed two people for every three that died of coronavirus’: 16,000 people in the UK died in five weeks as hospitals shut down to deal with COVID while 25,000 died from the virus
Lots of angry folks out there.

81452 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 4, #502 of 1097 🔗

I really dislike the term “bedwetter” as a term of abuse. To have this problem would be a misfortune and doesn’t help the excellent case.

81472 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to John Stone, 12, #503 of 1097 🔗

I dislike the term “granny killer”.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire- or in this case, murder with piss.

81988 ▶▶▶ Old Mum, replying to Farinances, 1, #504 of 1097 🔗

Yes, I am a granny and 57 yo – I trust my immune system!

81475 ▶▶ wendy, replying to John Stone, #505 of 1097 🔗

What could be used instead?

81490 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendy, #506 of 1097 🔗

Pants shitter?

81562 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to JohnB, #507 of 1097 🔗

Masked Morons?

81705 ▶▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to T. Prince, 2, #508 of 1097 🔗

cottonfaces ?

81865 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to DomW, 1, #509 of 1097 🔗

I do like ‘cottonfaces’. Makes me laugh.

81774 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, #510 of 1097 🔗

Shit trousers

81514 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendy, 3, #511 of 1097 🔗


81615 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, #512 of 1097 🔗


81561 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to John Stone, 3, #513 of 1097 🔗

Do you really think the Guardian are suddenly going to take notice of what we are saying if we drop the term “bedwetter”?

81637 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Chicot, 1, #514 of 1097 🔗

I doubt Guardian readers are haunting the pages of this site (well, except for the bold few like me, but I’m anti-lockdown). But it’s almost impossible to engage their readers in discussion anymore – almost all COVID-related articles do not allow comments.

81828 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to ConstantBees, #515 of 1097 🔗

I’ve enjoyed the Guardian for over 60 years, although must say I did have a wobble when they went over to lower case for alsatian dog, cardigan, cheddar cheese, french windows, swiss roll, wellington boots, yorkshire pudding and many others. Not to mention champagne and scotch. And of course nowadays their younger writers seem to think ‘different to’ is acceptable. Never realised until lockdown, and moving to electronic version, that they allowed readers to comment on articles, other than by writing a letter. A mistake, I think.

81575 ▶▶ Mike Collins, replying to John Stone, 1, #516 of 1097 🔗

Buck up John, you’re not on a woke website this is lockdownsceptics. Try the garundian, they’ll love you and make you feel welcome.

81598 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to John Stone, 3, #517 of 1097 🔗

I agree that name calling sends it down to that level of less mature discussion. It’s hard not to go there though but I seriously think we should limit the derogatory labeling. We’re being called anti this and denier that and we need to stay above that level of divisiveness. I sure do like Lisa’s term Maskholes though!!

81600 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John Stone, 2, #518 of 1097 🔗

I agree, it doesn’t really sum up the brain washed hypochondriac mentalists that believe the Corona bolox.

How about lockdownistas, lockdown zelots, hypochondriacs, covid believers, people who are “on message”, or fucktards.

81672 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Two-Six, 1, #519 of 1097 🔗

Covysterics is my person favourite, and own coinage – I think.

But I still like bedwetters. It really captures an…. image 😉 of these people I think is probably largely accurate.

81603 ▶▶ watashi, replying to John Stone, 3, #520 of 1097 🔗

how about the brainwashed ?

81683 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to watashi, 2, #521 of 1097 🔗

Brainwashed works, unthinking people etc.

Calling folks names only entrenches divergence. It isn’t bright, I am guilty as anyone. Much better to use repect to win arguments.

There is a need for a term to describe the limp lettuces which is meaningful without being derogatory in my view.

82054 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to watashi, #522 of 1097 🔗

Zombies.The living dead.

81609 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to John Stone, 1, #523 of 1097 🔗

What about ‘nappy wearers’. Sums up the mask worn on face and the fact that you won’t wet the bed if you wear one on your nether regions. Obviously, grown ups don’t need one for their bottom half (unless they have true incontinence).

81660 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to John Stone, 1, #524 of 1097 🔗

I piped up about just that 2 or 3 weeks ago. Has made no difference.

81670 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Hoppity, 1, #525 of 1097 🔗

John and hoppity I agree.

81678 ▶▶ DRW, replying to John Stone, 3, #526 of 1097 🔗

The reddit sceptics simply call them “doomers”.

81735 ▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to DRW, 3, #527 of 1097 🔗

I didn’t realise I’d sparked such a conversation. “Doomers” seems pretty good.

81797 ▶▶ Mark, replying to John Stone, #528 of 1097 🔗

I tend to use panickers or coronapanickers, when there’s a need for tact.

But there’s a place for tact and there’s a place for rabble rousing. Bedwetters falls into the latter category, I think. You’re correct in your point that it can be and is used by others to try to discredit the site and its inhabitants, but I genuinely don’t think that’s been much of an issue so far. W have always been basically beyond the Pale anyway. Chasing respectability when you are being painted as uncaring selfish granny killers is pretty futile imo.

81810 ▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Mark, 2, #529 of 1097 🔗

If you want to change people’s minds it doesn’t seem to help much apart from anything else, but it also reminds me of school in an unpleasant kind of way. Better to win the argument by being more reasonable than being more unpleasant, when there is plenty to be reasonable about.

81840 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John Stone, #530 of 1097 🔗

I don’t disagree with anything you say there, it’s just I think it doesn’t cover the whole issue and doesn’t necessarily address what this site is really about. Early on, this site was more about reassuring people that they were not alone, and were not insane, when there were so few open dissenters around and the government and entirety of the media was basically gaslighting us pretty much in unison. That, and rallying anger against what was being done to us. Then the use of the term helped rally the troops, I think, though it was certainly alienating for some. Still does, but that might be less of an issue today.

81939 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Mark, #531 of 1097 🔗

Yes, well I have obviously wandered in at an odd time…

81945 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John Stone, #532 of 1097 🔗

Vanity Hammocks?

81459 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 6, #533 of 1097 🔗

So has anyone seen the death total go down yet? Has anyone seen any reporting of the ‘nobody recovers from covid’ admission on tv?

Doesn’t look like it has gone down. When will it? In like two months?

And when it suddenly goes down by …. 5k? Or something, how will they explain that on the bbc?

81487 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #534 of 1097 🔗

The 28 day conditions will more than likely only lower it by a few hundred. When you think there’s only been registrations for 4 months and most died between April 1st and May 31st, the only a 2 month period, it won’t change that significantly.

81669 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, #535 of 1097 🔗

I thought I read it was going down by about 4…something…k?


81518 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Farinances, #536 of 1097 🔗
81461 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 6, #537 of 1097 🔗

Lovely day in Edinburgh today, roads are busy and people out and about. Cue lockdown next week as too many people have been out enjoying themselves.

P.s. who in their right mind wears a mask on a bus in 70deg heat.

81634 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stefarm, 1, #538 of 1097 🔗

Someone who doesn’t want to get thrown off said bus. I’ve seen it happen twice where I live. Women both times.

81473 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 41, #539 of 1097 🔗

I think with the coming Autumn and into what may just be a Winter of Discontent, the one burning question will be “How do we get these bastards out?”. For any politician now is the time to get your story in order as if doesn’t matter what the official rules say, there is going to be a forced election.

Currently many in the population seem to think that the government has done a good job, saved lives. But it only takes a small percentage of change for a cascade to happen.

Personally the ugliest thing has been letting people die alone. I mean if you are dying of TB you still can get in wearing a suit.

The causal cruelty of it.

That’s what actually gives me distress about the masks. I don’t mind people wearing a mask if you choose. But forcing it on people, the mask becomes a political symbol. It becomes an insignia.

81476 ▶▶ wendy, replying to mhcp, 5, #540 of 1097 🔗

Yes it is the stories of sadness and loss that are the worst part of it for me and will go on and on whilst all the second wave and winter deaths crap continues

81481 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, 14, #541 of 1097 🔗

One problem is there’s is no viable alternative. If we get the government out, and the opposition take over then we get a party that wants a even stricter measures put in place, and didn’t think the existing measures were strong enough.

There’s no political party that isn’t anti lockdown. Even Farage is a bed wetter when it comes to COVID-19, so to me there seems no options.

81488 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 12, #542 of 1097 🔗

That’s right. None of them have challenged this, not for it’s severity, stupidity, collateral damage or even just plain old red vs blue. Who could you vote for, really?

81590 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #543 of 1097 🔗

So true! It really speaks of where this is coming from. No push back in Canada either…the official opposition hasn’t opposed a darn thing.
And all the mainstream media is on board too and pushing the single narrative hard.

81489 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to JohnB, 8, #544 of 1097 🔗

No change is possible without a new political party.

81511 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #545 of 1097 🔗

I felt this with Brexit too. The old guard have to go, they no longer represent the people they claim to represent, any of them.

Unfortunately our first past the post system makes that very unlikely (look at how many votes ukip/brexit got over the years, yet never got a single seat).

81515 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 11, #546 of 1097 🔗

There is no opposition party. That is the frightening truth. This is a one-party state in effect – it’s now just the nodding heads that change.

That’s the reason (as I’ve mentioned elsewhere) why the campaign against Corbyn was so frenetic and wildly propagandised beyond reasonable political argy-bargy. He wasn’t under control and within the narrow spectrum of permissible establishment views.

You can have any political views that you want, whether you are a Corbyn hater or a Corbyn acolyte. But one thing’s for sure – you aren’t allowed real alternatives when you actually make your choices. That’s far too dangerous – and democratic.

81528 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 7, #547 of 1097 🔗

One party government since 1997.Farage is controlled opposition,any time he has a chance to make a real difference he backs off.If he had stood his candidates in the last election we wouldn’t have this shower of shit in charge

81546 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to RickH, #548 of 1097 🔗

Just out of curiosity, do you know what Corbyn’s view on all this is? I know his brother, Piers, is a sceptic.

81553 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to zacaway, 11, #549 of 1097 🔗

I like Piers, he kept on talking in Hyde Park even though he was arrested 3 times. One time, 6 policeman carted him off to the Police van (one elderly man with a megaphone). The following week the Police were either running away from or taking a knee for the BLM ‘protesters’.

81601 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to zacaway, 3, #550 of 1097 🔗

Jeremy is all for it, keeping the workers safe, not putting workers lives at risk for profit etc.

81543 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to JohnB, 1, #551 of 1097 🔗

True. All we can do is hope to have checks and balances. The Law of Hamurrabbi gets some stick but it does require Skin in the Game.

The alternative are different newer parties – but that requires momentum. What tends to happen in crises is polarisation – happened in Northern Ireland. The main parties hollowed out leaving Sinn Fein and the DUP

81578 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to mhcp, 9, #552 of 1097 🔗

Agreed. Go ahead and wear one if it makes you feel safer but don’t dare to force one upon me.
I’ve not felt one bit unsafe since this cycle began and I’m still confident that my immune system is all the safety I need.

81620 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Eddie, 3, #553 of 1097 🔗

It’s amazing isn’t it. It’s not the mask it’s the intent. There’s a funny graffitti in Bournemouth saying “Covid is an IQ test”

81633 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to mhcp, 1, #554 of 1097 🔗

I live in Bournemouth. I’ve got a picture on my phone of graffiti that says “Did we just applaud the DEATH of the NHS???” It was in a subway under the main road right next to Bournemouth University. I thought it would probably disappear and sure enough, it did. There was a lot of other graffiti there as well, but strangely, that one was the only one cleared. I’ve wondered about sending it somewhere, but wasn’t sure where was appropriate.

81666 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #555 of 1097 🔗

Sounds like one for Twitter! (And here, post it to us!)

81689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Farinances, #556 of 1097 🔗

Don’t use Twitter (the devil’s spawn). Can’t see how to post it here. Any guidance would be appreciated.

81708 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Farinances, 6, #557 of 1097 🔗

Let’s see if I figured it out (thanks to zacaway for showing the way, if this works).

comment image

82201 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to mhcp, #558 of 1097 🔗

“Covid is an IQ test”

That’s great. Wish I’d come up with that.

81478 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 26, #559 of 1097 🔗

My stepson’s just told me about his night out last night. His first since the lockdown began. Went to a bar first. Only weird thing was the temperature zapper at the entrance. No track and trace. Didn’t notice social distancing inside. All normal. Went onto a club. Again no track and trace . Club was heaving. Exactly the opposite of social distancing! Only thing that was different was no karaoke and dance floor closed. No singing or dancing allowed in puritan Wales! He told me first taxi he and his friends stopped on way home didn’t let them in as they had no masks. Second one let them in maskless. Driver told them he thought the lockdown was a load of rubbish and the virus a big scam. My stepson told him all the stuff I’ve been telling him about this nonsense (I’m impressed he’s been taking in all my ranting) and the driver was so pleased that he wasn’t the only sceptic in town. All in all he had a very almost normal night out! And people were buying him shots all night – bonus!

Also check out the main article on the Wales Online website about Tenby. Very, very encouraging from a sceptic point of view. Though there’s another article there about a dickhead doctor recommending wearing face masks on the beach. Oh just do us a favour and piss off.

81491 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, 15, #560 of 1097 🔗

You’d have to be worried about consulting a doctor whose level of knowledge was such as to think that mask-wearing in the open air was a good idea!

82048 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, #561 of 1097 🔗

There must be some doctors who haven’t had the last vestiges of common sense trained out of them. Few and far between though.

81940 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #562 of 1097 🔗

I live and work in Tenby. Saw four nappies today, two if them Asian so obviously lost their faces. long time ago.
Everything else normal, stupid soc dis notices apart, A lovely sunny day by the sea.
Screw the Covinazis.

81529 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to BJJ, 4, #564 of 1097 🔗

What a safe cheap treatment for covid 19 with 100% success rate that would mean we don’t need a vaccine….

Its doomed!

81602 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Major Panic, #565 of 1097 🔗

Don’t think this treatment for worms, lice, scabies has been used to treat anyone with CV 19 yet. So nil success rate so far.

81611 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bruno, 2, #566 of 1097 🔗

was the doctor on the clip lying?
he seemed to be saying it had been, extensively.

81759 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Major Panic, 1, #567 of 1097 🔗

Right, now found this trial in US very recently on some very sick patients. See the comments though, they don’t seem to even know how many were given 1 or 2 x12 mg doses. And they were being given other drugs at the same time. So hard to see which made what difference.

81830 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #568 of 1097 🔗

Quite a small number of patients but it seems reasonable that it would work a bit. Probably like afifavir, remdesivir or HCQ.

HCQ seems to have been politicised on both sides and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

81843 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 2, #569 of 1097 🔗

Yeah. Politicised drugs eh? But then the US always seems as exotic as India to me.

81540 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to BJJ, 2, #570 of 1097 🔗

Wait for the denouncements from the usual suspects as confirmation that it is effective!

81512 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #571 of 1097 🔗

I keep wondering what virologists/immunologists/people who generally study this stuff have been doing for years. I remember one particular discussion I had with and expert in this field and ended up telling him to take his head out of his textbooks and start looking at reality:
Why antibodies may not be the key to beating coronavirus
Worries over waning antibodies may be overblown, as growing evidence shows a role for T cells in the coronavirus immune response.

It’s a process that has evolved over hundreds of millions of years, and all the different arms of the immune system generally work together seamlessly.

81538 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #572 of 1097 🔗

I was aware, early on, that immunologists know this stuff but epidemiologists don’t. In fact, epidemiologists don’t want to know it. If they did, their models would be ‘wrong’. Their ‘SIR’ model cannot allow for such subtlety. And nor can the concept of ‘R0’. ‘R0’ is supposed to be a fixed value for the duration of the epidemic, and in conjunction with the basic SIR model produces the supposed herd immunity threshold. And if immunity is not a fixed, binary thing (e.g. detectable antibodies), it is meaningless to a standard-issue epidemiologist.

Here is some proof:

If you start watching at about 2.04.10, you’ll hear Imperial College modeller Samir Bhatt categorically equate immunity with serological antibody testing. If 5% of the population shows antibodies then in his mind, 95% of the population is still as wide open and ‘susceptible’ as on Day 1. He is completely unaware of the other mechanisms in the immune system.

And it works the other way round, too. I could find you a discussion where an immunologist defers totally to ‘the modellers’ when it comes to working out the herd immunity threshold, even though with a little looking around they would realise that the modellers exist in their own, isolated, fantasy world and know nothing about the immune system.

81571 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #573 of 1097 🔗

Epidemiology as a discipline has experienced a lot of damage from the ‘modelers’ who are subject to the GI>GO syndrome big-time. Which wouldn’t be so much of a problem if mistakes were taken as a learning opportunity – which, given the Ferguson/ICL record clearly isn’t the case.

On the other hand, good epidemiologists like Wittkowski, who have called it right at an early stage, have actually been censored!

81804 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #574 of 1097 🔗

I suspect you’ve probably seen this one already, where an immunologist basically talks sense, because it’s been linked here a few times. But I’ll post it here anyway just in case, and for any readers who haven’t yet seen it. Highly recommended:

Ep91 Emeritus Professor of Immunology…Reveals Crucial Viral Immunity Reality

81535 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 27, #575 of 1097 🔗

Saw this post on Quora yesterday.


I don’t reject the science, but mask mandates feel authoritarian to me. I fear they will be in place forever, even after a vaccine as some hardliners seem to want. Will we be able to throw away our masks next spring?

Most popular answer (1,400+ upvotes):

I would be less concerned about the authoritarian angle if I were you.

Authoritarian states hate masks. Masks prevent the state from easily identifying individuals in the street, limit the effectiveness of pervasive CCTV, and provide cover for anti-authoritarian activities.

Watch out for the people who want to ban masks, not those who want to mandate them. The anti-maskers are the natural authoritarians.

Seriously? Have we really reached this level of Orwellian logic?

The guy who posted that answer is a prolific contributor, so much so that I suspect he is an agent of the UK state’s troll-farm (aka 77th Brigade ).

81548 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to zacaway, 7, #576 of 1097 🔗

“Watch out for the people who want to ban masks, not those who want to mandate them. The anti-maskers are the natural authoritarians.”

Now in what world does the above make sense?

As you say, it is really Orwellian speak.

“Freedom is slavery”

I just don’t get this way of thinking, it’s not thinking at all. I bet these are the same people who when questioned about loss of any form of privacy – I.D. cards, having your private conversations recorded, your emails read, say, “if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear”.

Every time I heard that I wanted to scream, and sometimes did (not in public).

81567 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Laura Suckling, 7, #577 of 1097 🔗

Their answer also only makes sense if you live in an authoritarian state, which we supposedly do not. So their answer is completely irreleavnt, and we should have the freedom to choose whether we do or don’t wear masks.

81622 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to JohnB, 6, #578 of 1097 🔗

Trouble is, they want to live in an authoritarian state because they think it’s safer.

Quote by Franklin, more pertinent today then ever :

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

81550 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to zacaway, 3, #579 of 1097 🔗

Freedom of choice is a bit different to wanting masks banned.

81554 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #580 of 1097 🔗

Good point, not heard anyone say they want them banned.

81937 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #581 of 1097 🔗

The sight of a nappied numpty makes me sick, but it’s their choice if they want to look nauseating.

83273 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nobody2020, #582 of 1097 🔗

Note the slight of hand in the argument:

people who want to ban masks

Nobody is advocating this position – they have created a false dichotomy (mandate vs ban masks) in order to exclude the real alternative which is simply a free choice for the individual to make.

81555 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to zacaway, 3, #583 of 1097 🔗

Ghislaine Maxwell is believe to be one of the most prolific posters on Reddit, behind the Maxwellhill account that accounted for over a third of all posts.

These sites are all about brainwashing so you can well believe the 77th have a good foothold in there.

82351 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to zacaway, #584 of 1097 🔗

A police line up of suspects in masks!

81547 stefarm, 22, #586 of 1097 🔗

Just been chatting to my neighbour, i mostly chat to her husband and I think he is a sceptic as he keeps saying to me ‘i remember you telling me about how it’s funny how all of the postman, shop workers, police aren’t dead, the more I think about it it is strange…’ etc etc I’ve also told him to Google agenda 21.

Anyhoo I was asked by her about a party yesterday in one of the neighbouring gardens, it ended late, lots of singing etc.

I said yeah, a bit noisy but good to hear people enjoying themselves and hope they don’t get grassed up as the covid police will be round to which she smiled.

She then said all those people who could be spreading it.

Told her don’t worry, it’s gone there is no danger, if anyone does get ‘it’ they won’t even know.

Minor agreement with raised eyebrows.

I then said the only virus is the little ginger woman in charge, to which she wholeheartedly agreed (like most people I talk to do).

Point I’m trying to make is we need people to think it is gone, if they do there will be more voices not accepting all of the brainwashing.

81558 Paul, replying to Paul, 8, #587 of 1097 🔗

A few of the small shops in my town are operating with the fear that they have liability if customers don’t wear masks,one owner said he doesn’t care if customers wear one or not but he is worried about the police or council fining him.
I’m sure I read that the shop isn’t liable for non-masked customers.

81560 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Paul, 2, #588 of 1097 🔗

Only a policeman, PCSO or Govt/Council official can enforce it, from what I remember of the law.

81597 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #589 of 1097 🔗

My understanding is that no-one can *enforce* it: if you are exempt from wearing a mask, under the government’s own ‘reasonable excuse’ guidance, then no, the police (and certainly not some local council operative) cannot require you to put on a mask.

The shopkeeper, however, is perfectly within his rights to refuse to serve you, and/or refuse you entry to his premises, so long as he is not breaking the terms of the Equality Act, although he would be hard pressed to prove he is not if you state that you are exempt (and you needn’t even carry any exemption badge/note/whatever).

81630 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #590 of 1097 🔗

Perhaps a bit rushed, what I meant was Police/PCSO/Official are the only ones that can ask you to explain your exemption, and then – say – you were just refusing, they can enforce *the law* and ask you to leave or whatever. No, they can’t force you to wear a mask… yet. Mr. Burnham might have other ideas, though!

81701 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #591 of 1097 🔗

I wonder if that’s even true though. I thought that any health issues are between you and your doctor, NO ONE else has the right to know about them unless you want to tell them. They can try to persuade you to leave but unless you’ve committed a criminal act in the shop (or wherever) and the shop has called the police in they CANNOT arrest you for not wearing one if you say you have an exemption – and I would suggest even if you DON’T say you have an exemption. I could be wrong but the wearing (or not) of masks is defined by rules and regulations, NOT legislation (i.e. LAW).

To be clear, I agree with what you’ve written but I don’t think you have to explain ANYTHING about why you are exempt. I would, just to be on the safe side, know WHICH of the exemptions you want to say apply to you.


81971 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DavidC, #592 of 1097 🔗

Have a look at the actual legislation, DC. It’s there, honestly. Not that we care, though.

81606 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Paul, 4, #593 of 1097 🔗

Shops are not liable for any penalties for having non masked up customers in their shop.

81559 kf99, replying to kf99, 9, #594 of 1097 🔗

News from the railway industry. Wolmar’s quite a prominent commentator.

” If this pandemic goes on without a vaccine or a cure, and continues at a low level for months if not years, what will be left of the rail industry? Even I as a train lover would not be able to justify spending billions on a system that no one uses. “

81579 ▶▶ RickH, replying to kf99, 9, #595 of 1097 🔗

This ‘pandemic’ has – of course – gone inn any real sense. What is left is generated artificial panic.

81625 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to kf99, 3, #596 of 1097 🔗

Along the lines of “don’t waste a good crisis”, I’ve wondered if the government sees this situation as an opportunity to turn the public against the NHS and get rid of bus and rail services. Quite a good outcome, at least from their perspective. Not great for those of us who love trains and local bus services.

81642 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #597 of 1097 🔗

I have got to the stage of being prepared to listen to any explanation of this egregious behaviour. Normal political/constitutional restraints have been abandoned – as has rationality.

I reckon there’s a confluence of overlapping interests – from the influence of global capital, through the seizing of opportunity, to the operation of simple incompetence and dumb stupidity.

81716 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to kf99, 1, #598 of 1097 🔗

and HS2?

81734 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to DressageRider, 6, #599 of 1097 🔗

HS2? I’ve lived in Birmingham and Manchester and can see no reason for that abomination to go forward. We need decent trains that serve the regions, not ones designed to make more people commute to London.

82037 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, #600 of 1097 🔗

London’s becoming a ghost town anyway.

81564 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 30, #601 of 1097 🔗

Anecdotes from Sturgeon-land: recommended shop-Savers; friendly welcome; when I showed my badge the lady in charge stopped to ask me about any hostile reactions or unpleasantness: she was genuinely interested.

When I told her I’d been lucky, she related the trouble which a much younger exempt customer has had: apparently this girl has been bullied and insulted not by shop workers but by her fellow citizens!

The Savers lady thinks that younger folk are being singled out by the Covid Brown Shirts:( my latest name for the gagging confraternity).


Savers is an excellent discount shop though.

Secondly, surreal encounter at our library with one of the assistants: I put books through the letter box, but she saw me, opened the door, and asked me to collect my books and put them on the nearby trolley.

Then,she pulled mask up from her neck, and told me that returned books could not be handled by staff and would be quarantined for 14 Days from return date :(obviously book handling is now a potentially lethal manoeuvre!).

Thirdly, visit to friend who is a social distancing enthusiast; pleasant time in her garden with another friend. As normal as can be expected nowadays.

But, what completely bamboozled me was the behaviour of her neighbour, a well educated and intelligent bloke whom I’ve got to know reasonably well over the past few years: he and his wife shop for my pal and are generally helpful, obliging and civilised.

This man is now absolutely terrified: he has apparently declared that, being 57, he could catch calamitous covid and die!!!

This utterly irrational behaviour is completely beyond me; even while the evidence continues to show that this is not The End Of Humanity As We Know It,formerly well balanced, educated folk are displaying a form of fear-driven OCD.

This is the second example of such ridiculous panic which I’ve encountered recently.

I’m older and poorer than both of them and I’m not afraid, just increasingly exasperated.

81577 ▶▶ RickH, replying to wendyk, 15, #602 of 1097 🔗

formerly well balanced, educated folk are displaying a form of fear-driven OCD.”

I think one of the major reasons for despair is this fact – the incontinent and baseless fears have taken over the ability to think rationally.

Now- I know that there’s a reason for this in evolutionary terms – for a short spell. But this extended shut-down of critical faculties amongst so many seemingly intelligent people is far more scary than any known virus.

81591 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to RickH, 4, #603 of 1097 🔗

Quite so; and these folk have influence-both in assets, wealth and voting patterns.

81594 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to RickH, 5, #604 of 1097 🔗

I’d like to know if they are on full pay, though. It is very easy to be “utterly terrified” if you are at home on full pay, when the alternative is having to go back to work.

81616 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to WhyNow, 2, #605 of 1097 🔗

Both are affluent, with, as far as I know, substantial assets.

81647 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to wendyk, 7, #606 of 1097 🔗

Allowing yourself to be brainwashed into continuing terror of the virus is a luxury that, amazingly, hasn’t been open to shop-workers, bus drivers and the rest of the low paid of society, even at the ‘height’ of the scamdemic when they might actually have caught the virus.

Now shop-workers have been forced into muzzles in many stores, adding insult to injury.

81652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #607 of 1097 🔗

Quite right, and I’ve attempted to show how this nonsense is driving an economic and social divide which will continue to play out.

All the workers whom I encountered today were either gagged or wearing space helmets.

Our bin men don’t wear masks, though how long this will last, remains to be seen.

This morning,while with my two friends, I recounted details of yesterday’s superb comments from psychiatrist ‘Alpine’: the rise in severe mental illness, loss of support, need for sectioning for those in extremis etc.

The 2 pals looked pensive but they’re not going to change until given ‘permission’ and an assurance that bodies will not fill the streets.

81638 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, 3, #608 of 1097 🔗

Put the blame where it belongs – on the Spiv snake-oil salesman in blue.

Most people I know who have been working at home or on furlough are not keen on it, and would like to get back to proper work.

Faux-envy and resentment projected on people isn’t any more a pretty sight than Covid panicdemic. The induced fear that I see is definitely real.

81580 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendyk, 12, #609 of 1097 🔗

We need a placebo vaccine otherwise these people will die a very lonely paranoia induced death.

81583 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to stefarm, 1, #610 of 1097 🔗


81614 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to stefarm, 2, #611 of 1097 🔗

During the early days of the Troubles in Belfast, a priest would do a mass absolution by waving his hands and sprinkling holy water over people. He’d run in and run out. Then curfew would come and the subsequent gun battles.

81935 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, #612 of 1097 🔗

Who cares if they do?

82126 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to annie, #613 of 1097 🔗

Not me

81710 ▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 5, #614 of 1097 🔗

Books deadly. Post and junk mail not.
14 days for books
Shoes…24 hours
Corona Virus can live of surfaces for 72 hours they keep telling us.

I think what I see there is the sun setting on libraries.

81715 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, 2, #615 of 1097 🔗

I saw some figues a while ago – viruse survive for longer on plastic surfaces than they do on paper – and we’ve all recently started using ‘plastic’ notes! Great work BoE!


81724 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DavidC, 1, #616 of 1097 🔗

Survive is more accurate tgan my ‘live’ of course. 14 days is a healthy tea break before relending a book to the public for err own the damn thing in the first place!

82229 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to DavidC, #617 of 1097 🔗

Interesting…funnily enough the first thing I’ve always done with my library books every since I was a child is peel off those disgusting plastic covers that are filled with other peoples debris and enjoy the lovely feel of the paper.

81750 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 1, #618 of 1097 🔗

The library workers are worried that the council might soon impose cuts and closures, claiming to be following ‘the science’.

81570 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #619 of 1097 🔗

Preston have a new official slogan:

“Don’t kill granny”

81574 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Nobody2020, 17, #620 of 1097 🔗

well open the fcukin hospitals back up then!

81582 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nobody2020, 21, #621 of 1097 🔗

Saw the head of council (mayor?) interviewed on Sky. Who do these people think they are – some two bit trumped up local bureaucrat. The only people who have killed granny are our politicians, and those responsible in NHS England for sending them to certain death in a care home. The attack on the young is a disgrace.

81588 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #622 of 1097 🔗

They should be fact checked and censored because the probability of it happening is likely to be tiny.

81697 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #623 of 1097 🔗

Spot on. I think it’s tragedy and a CRIME that the government told hospitals not to take people in from nursing/care homes and to send BACK people from hospitals to nursing/care homes. Oh, and then force those homes to lock down. To me that was MURDER by the government. Despicable doesn’t even begin to describe it.


81592 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #624 of 1097 🔗

“…because she’ll die alone”

81596 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #625 of 1097 🔗

Not very imaginative though.

81618 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #626 of 1097 🔗

“Don’t kill granny”

keep being classy Preston…

82020 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, #627 of 1097 🔗

That’s ok, I’m only looking to kill grandads!

82181 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #628 of 1097 🔗

Oi !

81573 Stephen Hoffman, replying to Stephen Hoffman, 1, #629 of 1097 🔗

I’m trying to register for Lockdownskeptics forum. But when I receive the activation link in my email, it only takes me to an error message: “Information – The activation key you supplied does not match any in the database.” There is no activation key visible anywhere on the error message page.

Does anyone know how I can get help?

81613 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Stephen Hoffman, #631 of 1097 🔗

I don’t recall having to register separately for the forums.

81799 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to karenovirus, #632 of 1097 🔗

You have to sign back in again – same username and password as here.

Problem I had was, even though it asks for “mail address or username” it really means username. I tried with email address a couple of times and no dice.

84202 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Stephen Hoffman, #633 of 1097 🔗

Try to register then check your email for the verification link.

81586 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 19, #634 of 1097 🔗

I suspect that attitudes towards lockdown are very much affected by whether a person is at home (I won’t say working) on full pay, or not.
Many many jobs is the large bureaucracies (public or private) are unnecessary. They don’t require you to do anything much. However, they have the inconvenient characteristic of requiring you to turn up. If you don’t even have to turn up, it’s paradise! A few tricks of the trade will keep you looking busy, while giving plenty of time for gardening, odd jobs around the house, family time with the children.
And to think you are doing it for a worthy cause is the icing on the cake. You really would not want anyone to spoil the party by going back to work and demonstrating there is no need to stay at home.

81595 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to WhyNow, 3, #635 of 1097 🔗

Same here in Portugal… it’s basicaly all classes of civil servants public or too big to fail companies with secured jobs and retired people bowing to whatever State says…nothing new under the sun.

81617 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to WhyNow, 11, #636 of 1097 🔗

I am working from home in decent, steady job (private sector) but hate it and resent the unnecessary lockdown all the more because of it. I am really busy but it takes me ages to get anything done (e.g. scanning and emailing things to my secretary with explanation rather than just taking things to her and having a quick chat). Plus I am constantly aware that I cannot do important parts of my job anything like properly (e.g. training juniors, discussing difficult issues etc.). No – it is not the same over zoom. Most of those I work with feel similar to me – we are out there. I have to admit that I am now instinctively suspicious of anyone who says how much they like working from home. I absolutely do not see how anyone can possibly think that they can do their job anything like as well from home unless they do something utterly mindless. There are many companies who would love to get people back but fear of bad publicity, being perceived as putting staff “at risk” or being sued by someone who gets the flu after feeling “pressure” to return to work are genuinely big factors to consider. There needs to be a clear government message that employers can point to to defend the position that things are safe and that there is no need for people to carry on working from home unless they are specifically vulnerable. Sadly, that message is not there and I cannot see it coming any time soon.

81624 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jenny, 3, #637 of 1097 🔗

With you 100% I hate working at home.

81629 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Jenny, 4, #638 of 1097 🔗

My idea is not that people working from home are in favour of lockdown. It is that people in favour of lockdown are likely to be people working from home on full pay.
The next time I hear someone arguing for full lockdown, I want the interviewer to ask them if they are working from home and on full pay.

81667 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to WhyNow, 2, #639 of 1097 🔗

i think i don’t meet your hypothesis – i work from home full time on full pay and hate the lockdown. To be fair i worked a fair bit from home before anyway so is an extension of that, but it’s very lonely and no differentiation between home and work.
Our office is open but have to book a desk, wear masks if moving around the office (which is my biggest issue though i see the company is mandated to do this), and there’s hardly anyone in, so doesn’t seem worth it.
Might see next week just for a change of scenary.

81675 ▶▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Sue, #640 of 1097 🔗

Who is mandating the company to force muzzles on those around, please?

81775 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Sue, #641 of 1097 🔗

I would like to know why your company is mandated to do this too please

81688 ▶▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to WhyNow, 1, #642 of 1097 🔗

Ah – point understood! I would agree with that one! And I would agree with the idea of the interviewer asking!

81805 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jenny, 2, #643 of 1097 🔗

I’ve been home based for about 3 years now. I have (or had) access to a couple of offices, but have very, very little reason to go in, partly because I work for HQ, not for the UK business, so nobody else in those offices is a colleague in a meaningful sense and none of those people are the people I could productively meet with except once in a blue moon. I’m very used to working remotely from an office and from my team – even my PA is the other side of the Atlantic, so handing over documents and having a quick chat has never been an option. It is possible to learn to use the tools you have to get a close approximation to being in the office with your team (assuming you have the right tools), but I agree it isn’t the same and isn’t as immediate.

The big difference is that, as most of my job is client-facing, I used to travel once every 2-3 weeks, almost always abroad and meeting the same people over Teams and communicating with them by email is nothing like as useful as meeting them face to face. My big worry is that that kind of behaviour will never be normal again. Not only will the cost of a flight be so much higher than it used to be and so the business case will be much harder to justify, but the clients will think it’s strange of me to consider jumping on a flight to Germany for a 2 hour meeting, when we could just do it by Teams.

I’ve realised recently that everything I really enjoy about my job has completely disappeared, leaving me with irritating drudge work.

81599 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 16, #644 of 1097 🔗

Good piece by Martin Kulldorf.
Herd immunity is still key in the fight against Covid-19


The pandemic will not be over until we reach herd immunity, either through a vaccine or through natural infections. Herd immunity is not a strategy but a proven scientific phenomenon, and to deny that is as silly as denying gravity. With the right strategy, we can even use it to save lives.

Under the vaccine scenario, the right strategy is to protect the elderly and other high-risk groups until they are protected by herd immunity, while the younger generations keep society afloat. Under the second scenario of natural immunity, the right strategy is to protect the elderly and other high-risk groups until they are protected by herd immunity, while the younger generations keep society afloat. If these two strategies sound about the same, they are.

81612 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Nobody2020, #645 of 1097 🔗

The 1 mil £ question is: who computes (cook) those numbers?

81632 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #646 of 1097 🔗

Under-tested vaccines of a dubious origin have a greater risk IMNSHO than any quotidian virus – particularly one that is a rare species in the real world.

If they weren’t a risk, why would the government issue an indemnity relating to side effects.

81703 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RickH, 4, #647 of 1097 🔗

I’ve been wondering why it’s not considered safer just getting the virus when we know that for most people it’s relatively mild vs taking a vaccine for which we know nothing of the possible long term negative effects.

81713 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #648 of 1097 🔗

I asked my Mother about the ‘diease parties’ when we were very young and when she was young. Parents would take their children to diseased children to allow their own to cacth the disease and a) get it over with and b) develop the herd immunity (although they wouldn’t have known about it or called it that).

I do remember being vaccinated against polio but even for polio the risk of complications was actually quite low. Most of the biggest changes with regard to disease have not been the result of vaccines but rather dramatic and good changes in public health.


81725 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to DavidC, 3, #649 of 1097 🔗

The irony being that those diseases are probably far more dangerous than this virus.

81605 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 17, #650 of 1097 🔗

Just been into Aldi for the first time since lockdown as they wouldn’t allow OH and Into shop together then, so we stopped going.

Two things made us laugh out loud.

One was the floppy Perspex screen to separate our queue and the queue for the next till. It was hung from the ceiling with a large gap above it and a smaller gap below it-ideal for a high flying or limbo dancing virus.

Two was the maskless member of staff in Aldi uniform going around doing her OWN shopping. How does the virus know when she is working?

On a plus note, there were definitely a few more naked shoppers today.

81619 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 4, #651 of 1097 🔗

One of the Aldi’s I go to has that hanging screen. Always reminds me of an abbatoir.

81610 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 31, #652 of 1097 🔗

In my view today is the that the worm turned.
Hardly any on-street mask wearing, none at all in my one visit to nearby convenience store. Of course the weather helped.

Over the course of a dozen conversations talk invariably turned to the Covid/lockdown, sometimes instigated by me, sometimes not. All of them ended in versions of
“It’s all bollox’

81650 ▶▶ Lili, replying to karenovirus, 5, #653 of 1097 🔗

Heartening. Love all these ‘out in the real world’ reports.

81654 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to karenovirus, #654 of 1097 🔗

Not where I am… 🙁 Massive increase in outdoor mask wearing…

81674 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to karenovirus, 10, #655 of 1097 🔗

Eldest son went to buy his teams new football shirt this morning. There was a bit of a queue to enter the shop. Guess what was the most commonly used phrase amongst these die-hard supporters?
Yes “It’s all a load of bollocks” and they weren’t discussing the increased cost of the new shirt either.

81623 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #656 of 1097 🔗

Bull-Hanson is on the case again:


81655 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Dave #KBF, #657 of 1097 🔗

My favourite Viking, after Ragnar Lothbrok.

81932 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, #658 of 1097 🔗

Is that hairybreeks?

81823 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Dave #KBF, #659 of 1097 🔗

Not come across him before, but I like the cut of his jib.

The only problem is that I’ve been watching a slightly weird Norwegian comedy series, Norsemen, where the actors and actresses are clearly all Norwegian but speak English, with that same fascinating Norwegian accent. So Bull-Hansen just distractingly reminds me of some of the characters in that series.

81626 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 6, #660 of 1097 🔗

Stopped this morning at a small village store in Buchlyvie, Stirlingshire on passing through on way to Stirling. Usual signs on entrance door saying masks compulsory. I went in masked,unusually for me, as I don’t like to take the hospitality of these wee shops for granted and it’s more daunting to deal with belligerent masked customers in a small community shop than in my usual large, more anonymous suburban superstore environment. Friendly young guy serving without mask at the (only) till and no perspex screen. Two local teenage boy customers half-heartedly pulling their t-shirts up to cover their mouths but they stopped the pretence when being served at the till. One adult male customer unmasked. Felt good.

82105 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gillian, #661 of 1097 🔗

Hope you haven’t made the unmasked folk feel bad …

81640 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #662 of 1097 🔗

I’ve obviously got too much free time, cos I’m inventing ‘Covinundrums’ – little lockdown benders, just for the sake of it.

So, I meet up with five guys out doors, that’s ok here in the wild, wild North West. But, I have secretly arranged for five other friends to come up, one at a time and swap with one of the original five, who then walks away.

At no time are we more than six, so that’s ok, but I’ve now met with ten people and thus doubled my risk of getting the deadly disease (that one that you can have without knowing).

Against the rules, but not! Can’t figure how many times I’ve killed Granny, though.

81645 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, #663 of 1097 🔗

If your concerned about not killing granny – then stay away. It’s your choice born of ignorance – but don’t ask me to subsidise it with deprivation of liberty.

81690 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to RickH, 1, #664 of 1097 🔗

Apart from it being ‘you’re’ and not ‘your’, I’ve read your comment three times and I’m still not sure of what point you’re trying to make.


81776 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DavidC, #665 of 1097 🔗

Oh dear – do you suffer often from buttock-clenching concern with obvious typos? Could be Covid 🙂

As to the ‘granny’ remark I was responding briefly to the satirical remark about not adhering to the rules being equated with ‘killing granny’. The sort of rationale being used is in this knicker-wetting argument is an arse-about-tit idiocy that – if you believe in it – suggests everybody should pay for your irrational fear and pat you on the head rather than you taking action yourself.

I think I’ll go and slit my wrists now.

81648 Drawde927, 2, #666 of 1097 🔗

Never heard of Bournbrook Magazine before, but their article (linked at the end of today’s update) sums up a lot of my feelings and suspicions as to how the current shutdown of civic + cultural life suits some elements of the media “establishment” all too well.

81651 Victoria, 10, #667 of 1097 🔗

The America’s Frontline Doctors Website is available again.

The “White Coat Summit” that was held by America’s Frontline Doctors (AFD) in Washington, D.C., created a firestorm of controversy, resulting in not just the event itself being censored from the internet but also the entire AFD website , which was quickly pulled by hosting platform Squarespace. And the reason for the latter, we now know , is because the AFD website is full of evidence exposing the criminal campaign by Big Tech and Big Government to censor all legitimate cures for the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19).

American life has fallen casualty to a massive disinformation campaign. We can speculate on how this has happened, and why it has continued, but the purpose of the inaugural White Coat Summit is to empower Americans to stop living in fear.’


81653 Victoria, 1, #668 of 1097 🔗

The Oxford Internet Institute, a department of the University of Oxford, has released a new study claiming that it benefits society to censor conservative-leaning news websites like The Daily Caller and PJ Media because they publish “junk news and disinformation.”
Entitled, “Follow the Money: How the Online Advertising Ecosystem Funds COVID-19 Junk News and Disinformation,” the paper takes a closer look at what types of advertising and Search Engine Optimization (SEO) create funding for the types of websites that Big Tech has been censoring lately.


81656 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 34, #669 of 1097 🔗

Oh dear, another lot of mask-wearers scarpered when we asked a fellow-LS customer (and one with a sense of humour) whether he still had the virus. They couldn’t get out quick enough! Oh, aren’t we bad 😉

81687 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to kh1485, 7, #670 of 1097 🔗

Bad but very, very funny! Good for you!


81784 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to kh1485, 2, #671 of 1097 🔗

Brilliant I love reading your posts KH

81931 ▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 1, #672 of 1097 🔗

You naughty people! 😂 😂 😂 😂 😵

81955 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #673 of 1097 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣

Best laugh I had in ages!

81657 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 18, #674 of 1097 🔗

Meanwhile on tbe other side of the pond, US doctors warn of another danger to wearing masks:
” The new oral hygiene issue — caused by, you guessed it, wearing a mask all the time to prevent the spread of the coronavirus — is leading to all kinds of dental disasters like decaying teeth, receding gum lines and seriously sour breath.
Now that dentists have reopened their doors, they’re having patients show up with a nasty set of symptoms, which the doctors have dubbed “mask mouth.””

81662 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nessimmersion, 13, #675 of 1097 🔗

This is what gets me, that people don’t realise that exhaled air is a waste product and needs to be expelled. And that restricting oxygen to your body is going to have myriad adverse effects.

81663 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #676 of 1097 🔗

I knew THAT would happen

81676 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #677 of 1097 🔗

after me, 3, 2, 1…


Danger Mouth, Danger Mouth…

81685 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #678 of 1097 🔗


81694 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nessimmersion, 7, #679 of 1097 🔗

Hahahahahahha halitophobia!!!

81700 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Farinances, 7, #680 of 1097 🔗

bad breath, mask acne and low level hypoxia. What’s not to love!?

81846 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Fed up, 6, #681 of 1097 🔗

And looking like a twat thrown in for good measure.

81768 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #683 of 1097 🔗

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of the psy-ops book and do some honest fear-inducing propaganda : the DANGER of masks; the PSYCHOLOGICAL HARM of lock-ups; the CHILD ABUSE of masking and socially distancing children; the DESTRUCTION of immune systems and GREATER VULNERABILITY TO DISEASE in general.

81659 Edward, 16, #684 of 1097 🔗

Good to see that the number of comments on this site now regularly exceeds 1000 daily (currently 479 at 2.45pm) and there are a lot of new names posting quite substantial and well-argued contributions.

Just some anecdotal stuff from me today. Slightly more unmasked shoppers in town, probably because of the hot weather and maybe awareness of exemption is increasing. Entry monitors at the shopping centre look extremely bored with their pointless task. I wasn’t on a bus but noticed a few unmasked on passing buses.

81664 JulieR, replying to JulieR, 18, #685 of 1097 🔗

A report from the beach in The Hague. The beach is just as packed as Bournemouth beach. The town is empty everyone is on the beach.
Went to Delft last night. The town centre bars and cafés were packed.

I have seen a few buses and trains and everyone on them were wearing masks. I was surprised as I have seen somewhere that Dutch government said that masks are useless. Maybe it wasn’t Dutch.

No masks required in shops at least.

81679 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to JulieR, 9, #686 of 1097 🔗

Go Holland!

81665 Winston Smith, 4, #687 of 1097 🔗


Choose if data from your health records is shared for research and planning.

Not bloody likely!!

81671 Sikboy, replying to Sikboy, 27, #688 of 1097 🔗

Anecdote from today in Sheffield.

At the butchers and shock horror, the butcher saw a good friend of his and shook their hand. Some level of interpersonal contact returning and it was nice to see.

Small steps!

81704 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sikboy, 4, #689 of 1097 🔗

I would expect nothing less in Sheffield.

81761 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sikboy, 4, #690 of 1097 🔗

Well we have a bit of a resistance up here at the top of our road here. One of us has been regularly fuming for a well-known weekly (right from the start), the odd daily article and doing a few interviews as well, whilst I keep churning the data and trying for a few converts.

We have been shaking hands, mixing freely and absolutely taking no notice of the surrounding idiocy since May. There’s nary a mask in sight – although some decide to make an unconvinced token gesture in shops. The common epithet is ‘Bollocks!’

81686 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 40, #691 of 1097 🔗

For mild amusement

81706 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #692 of 1097 🔗

Now that the cat is out of the bag… 😉

SARS-CoV-2 is actually a BSL-2 agent, guess what, respiratory protection is not mandated at BSL-2… You just use a biosafety cupboard for aerosols

81707 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nessimmersion, 10, #693 of 1097 🔗

I am going to take a tea strainer with me next time I go shopping and hold it up to my breathing holes if I get any shit from anybody.

81712 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Two-Six, 3, #694 of 1097 🔗


81717 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 2, #695 of 1097 🔗


81695 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 24, #696 of 1097 🔗

walked around the shops with my teenager off-spring. We were both unmasked. No questions asked. However, it would be nice for this mundane task not to feel like an ordeal.

81813 ▶▶ matt, replying to Fed up, 7, #697 of 1097 🔗

Or indeed, it would be nice for a mundane task not to feel like a hard-won moral victory every. bleeding. time.

81698 DRW, 3, #698 of 1097 🔗

A great cartoon to put things in proportion (it’d be even better population adjusted):

81709 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 6, #699 of 1097 🔗

Notice how there is no live stream of the protests currently happening in Germany on Youtube, like there was last week………..

81720 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Farinances, 1, #700 of 1097 🔗

Any numbers?
Is ruptly showing?

81721 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Farinances, 1, #701 of 1097 🔗

I did find this Sputnik video though:

81763 ▶▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to DRW, 1, #702 of 1097 🔗

Came for Soviet-era space hardware, left disappointed.

81711 tonys, replying to tonys, 11, #703 of 1097 🔗

Just thinking back to the first signs when it started to become apparent that our politicians had got it all so horribly wrong; for me it was during the daily briefings when every snarky, fear spreading ‘gotcha’ question received the same sort of unctuous feeble Uriah Heapish ‘that’s’ a good question Laura/Beff/ Robert response. Never any pushback, never a sense that these people were really on top of this, just fear and cowardice and is there anyone more dangerous than a coward trying to look tough?

81722 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to tonys, 10, #704 of 1097 🔗

It’s pretty evident when a strategy to combat a virus is based on nothing more than a slogan (save the NHS), it’s not really much of a strategy at all.

At what point is the NHS sufficiently saved to be able to declare mission accomplished?

And these people think they’re worthy to Govern.

81737 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #705 of 1097 🔗

It for them yet to define what saving a national health service actually means.

If saving was to prevent overwhelming the service then that supposes an overwhelmed system collapses to total failure. This senario would not happen, the system would load to capacity then surplus would not benefit.

So with an overwhelmed health service would civil disobedience have cause mass panic? Trying to stuff suffering loved ones into an over crowded system causing damage and clogging infrastucture.

What logic is their to saving the nhs as an action. It appears to be based on false/unproven implcations of an overwhelmed system.

81744 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 12, #706 of 1097 🔗

Well – it’s interesting that there was only one coherent reason for short-term, more general, quarantine – and that was to prevent overload on the system when little was actually known.

That was actually a reasonable precautionary argument.

However, it was pretty soon clear that the was no such overload, and that the virus was fairly mild for most people (we know the exceptions). Hospitals were generally exceptionally quiet, having been emptied of other patients. Far from overload, there was under-employment.

But the original rationale was totally subsumed with toys-for-boys being implemented for the sake of it.

In fact, my perception is that the emerging evidence about the virus (lack of general threat and predictable disappearance) has been in inverse proportion to the generation of the artificially-induced fear needed to keep the anti-democratic power game going.

82099 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #707 of 1097 🔗

That was actually a reasonable precautionary argument.

Meh. Quarantine is for sick people.

‘reasonable’ means different things to different folks, I guess. To me, it was always clearly bollocks.

81757 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #708 of 1097 🔗

What gets me is that there is no such thing as the NHS in the sense that people think of it. It isn’t a tangible object, but a means by which our healthcare is paid for. All hospitals are separate entities who are paid out of the NHS pot to provide certain services for the local population.

81718 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 15, #709 of 1097 🔗

We know that the Government knew that their actions would cause people to die.

The burden was on the Government to prove that any actions taken justified the killing of tens of thousands of its citizens.

I know it’s impossible to prove something wouldn’t happen, but if this was a court case the defence would need to provide a convincing argument based on the balance of probabilities. Is “a reasonable worst case scenario” justification for killing people?

The situation now is very different to the situation back in Feb/Mar, yet our governments continue down a path that kills people using the same “reasonable worst case scenario” as an excuse.

81859 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #710 of 1097 🔗

I don’t know if this would be covered under a specific law (I’ve been told before that the government are relatively immune to prosecution anyway), however there is a parallel with the use of reasonable force in self defence.

“In England and Wales, anyone can use “reasonable” force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. Householders are protected from prosecution as long as they act “honestly and instinctively” in the heat of the moment.”

So let’s say the government are protecting others. The reasonable force defence would be the justification to cause harm to citizens on the basis that they are preventing a greater harm. As long as the government were acting “honestly and instinctively” in the heat of the moment then the actions taken could be considered reasonable.

However, the threat is now vastly diminished. The government are continuing the harm relative to the previous threat and not the current threat. It can no longer be considered “in the heat of the moment”. Current actions can no longer be considered “reasonable” if they are causing greater harm than they are preventing.

NB. The justification for lives saved is based on the R number and assumed IFR. At the peak the R number was around 2.5 to 3.0 and an assumed IFR of 1.0. This was the basis of the 500k deaths “reasonable worst case scenario”. If R is currently 1 (or close to 1) and the IFR is closer to 0.5, then using the same equation there are no more lives being saved and therefor no more justification to cause any further harm.

82096 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, #711 of 1097 🔗

‘in the heat of the moment’ is a split-second thing, not a matter of hours/days/weeks in comfy offices in Whitehall.

81719 Basics, replying to Basics, 25, #712 of 1097 🔗

So. You’ve spent the past four odd months working from home. You’ve enjoyed it actually after the intital shock of the change in routine. So much so that you realise you don’t need to be in your city office to keep your role functioning. It’s completely possible to work without the commute. It follows therefore that now you should relocate from the commuter belt to a small idyllic village with milk churns and roses. Sell up and move to a better life.

And then you realise if you can work from home there are people in other homes around the world who can do your work cheaper.

It’s the principles of migrant labour but without the rubber dingy bit in the middle. Work from home, competition for your position is now global.

81728 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Basics, 14, #713 of 1097 🔗

Exactly. But the realisation is so so slow. They’re all enjoying the lovely weather a bit too much.

81756 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kh1485, 5, #714 of 1097 🔗

Maybe when companies start to introducing systems which monitor how productive someone from home is being, those working from home may want to go back to the office.

81942 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Dave #KBF, #715 of 1097 🔗

Do you really imagine they don’t already do that? How long have you been retired?

82092 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, #716 of 1097 🔗

Most people get more done wfh. Quite a few have to be told to ease off, for their own wellbeing.

81738 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 16, #717 of 1097 🔗

Call me crazy but I used to assume that the main reason people got paid £50000+ a year for a job was because they had to get up at the crack of dawn, commute into some town or city, go to an office, stay there all day on your best behaviourwith people you probably hate doing something that bored the living crap out of you and do it 5 days a week for ever and ever.

Now what would be the reason to pay people that much for sitting about at home doing zoom calls from a paddling pool?

81755 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Two-Six, 10, #718 of 1097 🔗

I hope a risk assessment has been carried out for using a laptop whilst being in a paddling pool?

We do not want any injuries now do we.

82033 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Dave #KBF, #719 of 1097 🔗

I used to wonder who watches snooker in the middle of a weekday… now it’s me… recommended to sceptics actually – no masks, no knee taking, no “stay safe” and not even a “thank you nhs” anywhere to be seen

82093 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 1, #720 of 1097 🔗

I’m worth it, 2-6. 🙂 Hope to upgrade paddling pool soon.

82235 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Basics, #721 of 1097 🔗

Was anyone else nauseated by the homespun narrative that was peddled about LD? That we all returned to a simpler, purer way of life, baking soda bread and making our own soaps. The stats from NSPCC paint a slightly less rosy picture.

81723 IMoz, 2, #722 of 1097 🔗

HA f-ing HA! I wonder what those “safety concerns” are, given what the kits actually are, perhaps contamination? — https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-randox-test-kits–2

possibly related: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8532929/Half-million-Covid-testing-kits-Randox-recalled-checks-revealed-not-sterile.html

81726 Cambridge N, replying to Cambridge N, 10, #723 of 1097 🔗

Trip to garden centre today reminiscent of a mixture between a crime thriller and a kindergarten.

“Stop there!”

“Do not approach any closer!”

“Drop your weapon!”

“Keep your hands where I can see them!

“Last till on the left for me.”

“In you go.”

“Are we paying by card?”

“Come along now.”

(Only one of these added for comic effect)

81752 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cambridge N, 10, #724 of 1097 🔗

Sounds like the place I went to a few months ago. Voted with my wallet, never again …

81727 DoesDimSyniad, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 23, #725 of 1097 🔗

Some will have seen from my comments that I am currently stuck against my will in the plague capital Melbourne of the People’s Democratic Republic of Victoria. On my walk today (used to go every day, but the anxiety from seeing masked covidiots everywhere has seriously lessened the enjoyment – and the length) an old man walking his dog muttered as we passed ‘You should be wearing a mask’. I’m thoroughly sick of this nonsense so I yelled after him ‘I’m exempt, not that it’s any of your business’. He didn’t respond, but I don’t know if he felt ashamed (I’d like to think so), or if he was just deaf!

81731 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 5, #726 of 1097 🔗

Amen brother!

81732 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 8, #727 of 1097 🔗

There will be people who resent having to wear a mask and seek to blame those who don’t wear them for prolonging their misery.

81733 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #728 of 1097 🔗

I hadn’t thought of that, though the irony is that the silly old fool is probably exempt himself! My mam says not to antagonise the elderly (generally good advice) and that he’s probably scared, but I think his reaction goes against that view. I’d expect someone scared to say nothing and shy away, not mutter under his breath.

82050 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #729 of 1097 🔗

Yes, that’s how stupidity works.

81736 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #730 of 1097 🔗

Probably deaf, sad to say. Is it true that less than 500 people have died (in the whole of Australia) and they’ve locked down the whole state for that?

81742 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Laura Suckling, 3, #731 of 1097 🔗

Less than 300 actually, most (but under 200, though probably a bit over by tomorrow) in Victoria. 85% of those deaths are from care homes, only 3 are under 50 (two men in their 40s and one in his 30s, though I haven’t been able to find out where in Australia they died)

81749 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 9, #732 of 1097 🔗

It’s utter madness! How are your fellow Australians failing to riot? And I’ve never got the wearing masks outside thing anyway. I don’t know how you’re keeping sane to tell the truth.

81762 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Laura Suckling, 9, #733 of 1097 🔗

I just can’t wait to leave the country. I hate it, I just want to be back in the UK with my fiancé (not that he’s there at the moment either – he works on a cruise ship, which is currently on its very slow way back to Southampton, in Genoa, though he was stuck in Dubai for months). Leaving is banned without an exemption from the Department of Home Affairs, and because we are not yet married I can’t imagine I’d be granted one.
I barely am to be honest. It doesn’t help that I’m on my own entirely, as my mam (whose house I’m in till I can leave) is staying with my grandfather to care for him, as he is dying from metastatic pancreatic cancer. It’s very aggressive, so even in normal times it’s doubtful anything could have been done, but I cannot see him. With the police overstepping their legal (as opposed to authorised) powers so greatly, if I am to see him I need to pick my time carefully.

81766 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 3, #734 of 1097 🔗

I should have said, there are meant to be protests on this weekend by the ‘sovereign citizens’. I am avoiding news like the plague (!) so I haven’t heard more. If I didn’t want to emigrate I’d join them, but it wouldn’t look good to have even completely bogus criminal charges against me is my thought.

81769 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #735 of 1097 🔗

Yeah, best keep your head down in that case.

81772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Laura Suckling, #736 of 1097 🔗

My thought precisely. It makes things doubly frustrating, as I can’t really do anything either to protest or to leave.

81887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #737 of 1097 🔗

Hang in there as best you can. I’m very disheartened by what’s going on in Victoria and I see the writing on the wall. I’m going to start slowly stockpiling essential items as I do believe we will end up in a hard lockdown at some point in the fall or winter — likely more draconian than the last one. Canadians are sheeple of the first order, so I don’t foresee a huge movement arising to stop it from happening. I don’t blame you for keeping your head down and staying out of trouble — gotta play the long game.

82052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #738 of 1097 🔗

What about the economy and people losing jobs?
Is Canada rich enough to pay the unemployed?

82062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JulieR, #739 of 1097 🔗

No country is rich enough to furlough the masses indefinitely. Crashing economies seems to be part of the depopulation plan.

81767 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 3, #740 of 1097 🔗

So sorry, what a f***ing nightmare.

82063 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Laura Suckling, #741 of 1097 🔗


82057 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Laura Suckling, #742 of 1097 🔗

They can’t be sane or they would be rioting. The nonsense has to stop.

82053 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #743 of 1097 🔗

What about their co-morbidities and of course people die every day even in Australia.

82069 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Rowan, 2, #744 of 1097 🔗

Most of them in care homes as I said, so it’s pretty obvious those ones all had comorbidities (my view is a care home is where you go when one foot is in the grave, though obviously not all in that situation end up there, if only because their families know about the horror stories, which are generally all too true). They’re not retirement villages after all. And yes people do die every day in Australia, that many by lunchtime on some days I wouldn’t wonder.

There’s no sense of perspective being shown at all, as the death toll from coronavirus needs to be ten times higher to even roughly equate to a mild flu in Australian terms. I’ve noted elsewhere that last year’s bad flu season killed about 4000 (3855 doctor certified which is expected to be between 80 and 89% of the overall total, probably released next month). And about 60 MILLION people die from all causes globally in a year too, so just no sense of perspective.

82103 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #745 of 1097 🔗

For interest’s sake, doctor certified deaths from all causes in Australia for 2019 numbered 146,798, largest number (more than a third) being from cancers, then circulatory diseases, respiratory diseases, and mental/behavioural disorders (mainly dementia).

81867 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #746 of 1097 🔗

I think that’s the wrong logic though. A lockdown is stupid either way but a lockdown when you’ve only had 300 deaths and when a vaccine might be only a few months away is much less stupid than when the virus has already burned through your population.

I don’t think it will work or be worth the cost. But it is at least a gamble with a potential win. The UK lockdown on the other hand was 100% futile.

81916 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to guy153, 1, #747 of 1097 🔗

By that logic you’d have to keep the whole of Australia shut down (as in no flights in) until the vaccine is available. I have serious doubts about a vaccine being a few months away. And, when there is no vaccine and they do open up, it’s going to be the same as in the UK.

However, I get your point about the virus having burned through the population here and in other countries (which it most certainly has).

82014 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #748 of 1097 🔗

Even if the vaccine is available it’s still a hell of a gamble. It’s a measure of how mad the world has become that we’re talking about a choice between futile insanity and merely reckless insanity.

The correct and ethical thing for the government to do is just tell people the truth and let them decide what they want to do.

82079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to guy153, #749 of 1097 🔗

The vaccine will be a dead cert, not a gamble..

82076 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #750 of 1097 🔗

Covid-19 is at a minimum 99% scam. The vaccine will be a 100% scam.

82095 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #751 of 1097 🔗

That’s basically what New Zealand is attempting. It won’t work in Australia now because of Victoria (although Australia’s CMO has said it wasn’t a viable strategy anyway). The April/May wave (HA!) was just people coming back from abroad and a small number of contacts. It didn’t noticeably get into the wider community (the actual first, and presumably only, wave) until Premier Daniel Andrews screwed up the hotel quarantine by hiring untrained security guards (a notoriously corrupt industry in Victoria) instead of using the Australian armed forces like everywhere else. It’s in the community now, and no doubt lockdown and masks will make it spread faster, since that seems to be what happens. Probably for the best in the end – gives them less excuse to keep Australia shut.

82071 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to guy153, 1, #752 of 1097 🔗

Do you really believe that the answer to Covid-19 will be a highly experimental, hardly tested, liability free vaccine, courtesy of the great depopulator and eugenicist, Bill Gates?

81890 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #753 of 1097 🔗

Surprised you went, DDS!

82082 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #754 of 1097 🔗

I’ve been here a while due to the obvious difficulties revolving around my fiancé’s job as a cruise ship manager. Was last in Cardiff last year and I really miss Wales, though I guess lockdown there without my fiancé would have been very difficult, more so than here till this Stage 4 (police state/dictatorship) nonsense started in Melbourne.
The whole of it is really a very long and complicated story, and I’ll be very glad to put it behind me when these bastard governments will let me 😩

81739 Cambridge N, replying to Cambridge N, 11, #755 of 1097 🔗

“We are keeping you safe.” (Sign in restaurant).

Hmm, so no mention at all about the risk of an asteroid hitting the Earth, or the Earth spiralling down into the Sun, or instant death from freezing air caused by climate change as we learnt from the film The Day after Tomorrow , or blokes getting sepsis and dying through a zip malfunction after a few drinks. What are they doing about these risks, never mind this Covid? Nothing!

“We are keeping you SAFE-ISH”, I think!

81773 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Cambridge N, 15, #756 of 1097 🔗

When did it become anyone’s duty to keep us safe. I thought it was ‘not to cause us harm’?

81816 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Fed up, 20, #757 of 1097 🔗

As a f*cking grown up male, 35 years as a fire fighter, I DO’NT WANT OR NEED anybody to ‘keep me safe’. If other grown ups need to be ‘kept safe’ by someone or something else, then they must have the mental age of an infant

81863 ▶▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to T. Prince, 7, #758 of 1097 🔗

I agree, particularly if their idea of safe involves me wearing a halitosis inducing face rag.

81741 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 25, #759 of 1097 🔗

This is really starting to tick me off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-53706436 now youngsters are being labelled granny killers, to try and restrain them.
This report is full of misinformation and half truths.
It has never, ever been said that children and young people cannot become infected.
It has never, ever been said that people from darker skinned ethnicities are more likely to become infected than white skinned people.
What is true is that young people are less likely to have a serious illness from the virus than older people, with children having the smallest risk.
Also, what is true is that people with darker skin are more likely to have a serious illness at a younger age than people with white skin. However, people from BAME are more likely to develop chronic conditions like diabetes at an earlier age than their white counterparts.
Finally, if all of these people are testing positive for SARS-COV-2 virus then it means there’s herd immunity and should be a cause for celebration not a reason to continue with the lockdown.

81753 ▶▶ Basics, replying to p02099003, 10, #760 of 1097 🔗

The fumes from sage SPI-B nudge evils are causing me to choke on this one. Young folk, couldn’t be that the nudge vampires that there’s a healthy morale in young people could it? Young people might have noticed the lack of friends dying, That no one has even a cold in tgeir circle of friends.

Yes the nudge ghouls have suggested to increase feeling of social consequence and caution in the 16-25 year old age groups. To be done by peer to peer pressure no doubt.

81777 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #761 of 1097 🔗

They have Greta Mark II lined up for that one – to appeal to the sweet young things (middle class, metropolitan type):


Just in time for the new school term – assuming they allow the kids back!

81817 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #762 of 1097 🔗

Do you know I stopped my self from going on about them sending out their bats, oops, sorry dim wit influencers to infect the young because I felt a bit wordy. Greta of arc 2 will be a flop as all sequels are.

Wherever has greta deserted to when the world needed her to count down 12 years to 11… ?

Shes being seen through by all but the most blue petery of young folk. I believe a behavioural muscalculation was the hard press eebeegeebeeies (the fun spelling) of the corona. The followers of greta may have realised their are reasons adults are required things to look after them and generally help out in times of trouble.

81888 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Basics, 1, #763 of 1097 🔗

There appears to be few adults left.

81780 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 8, #764 of 1097 🔗

Indeed. I am not prone to violence, but I can’t help feeling that if all the SPI_B lot walked under a bus society would register a net benefit.

They are contemptible shits – the spawn of Goebbels.

81819 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 2, #765 of 1097 🔗

Agree and endorse your sentiment especially Goebbels. Be very proud yourselves SPI-B thats all youve got. A life of loneliness awaits you.

81785 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 12, #766 of 1097 🔗

If anything, you overstate the dangers! It is, in practical comparative terms, non-existent – like the moral intelligence of the SPI-B group or the integrity of Johnson.

A quick scan of the CEBM death data is enough to show this, and as a grandad, I don’t want to be f.ing patronised by these professional liars – and if I am incapable of taking sensible risks, I may as well be turning my toes up anyway – because I’ve effectively stopped living at that point, and opted for being an empty shell.

81837 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to p02099003, 11, #767 of 1097 🔗

I do not live with or even near my ‘granny’ for a start and I don’t go out of my way to go near the elderly/vulnerable. Beyond those basic actions I’m not responsible for anyone else’s health.

It’s a truly reprehensible slogan, smacks to me of the old method of divide and conquer. Pit the generations against each other, just like with Brexit.

81893 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Poppy, 1, #768 of 1097 🔗

Society is being split across pretty much all known axis now. At some stage everyone will hate everyone else.

81770 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 17, #769 of 1097 🔗

Follow-up article on what Dr Fauci said on a podcast yesterday:


What is interesting is the chart – shows the declining percentage of Americans who would be prepared to have a vaccine. It is now less that 50% overall – only 37% of Republicans, and just over half of Democrats.

It’s going well for the Gates vaccine strategy!

81771 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #770 of 1097 🔗


81794 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #771 of 1097 🔗

I know you can never rely on polls/surveys, but if such a high percentage of Democrats, never mind Republicans, are wary of a vaccine, maybe there is some hope!

The decline in percentages is interesting, it suggests that people are increasingly aware of the safety issues of a rushed vaccine (along with the possibility that it might not be needed in most states by the time it’s available)

81811 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #772 of 1097 🔗

Thanks for posting this. Much needed glimmer of light.

81851 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #773 of 1097 🔗

Nice, but not surprising, to see that Republicans have more sense!

81881 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #774 of 1097 🔗

I’m afraid there will be a shift if Biden wins in November. A lot of people are saying they won’t take any vaccine that comes to market on Trump’s watch because they believe he’d not hesitate to injure or kill people to win re-election. I’m no Trump fan and can’t disagree there, but it’ll be the same poison no matter who wins the election! The sheeple will just perceive it to be safer.

81967 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #775 of 1097 🔗

I’m not a big fan of Trump either but what you see is pretty much what you get. Biden, however, is another matter – what you see will not be what you get! Trump odds have been narrowing over the last few days and Biden’s have been going out a fraction, possibly after his latest gaff on African Americans. Small changes, but interesting at this stage. It will be interesting to see the response to his VP pick.

82060 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #776 of 1097 🔗

I can’t understand all the plaudits for Biden, nor that he is the Democrat nominee, given that he is literally demented (i.e. has lost his mind). His VP pick is pretty much guaranteed to take over as President in very short order should he win. I can’t say I’m a Trump fan but he is better than the alternative. Like the UK and Australia the US seems to work on a political system where you need to vote for the least bad (Conservatives, Liberals, Republicans respectively), which unfortunately and obviously means you don’t often get good government, just one not as abysmal as the alternative (sometimes barely not 😵 ).

82281 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #777 of 1097 🔗

Sorry, but it’s not Trump who’d do that. How would killing people win him re-election??
It’s the Democrats who have sent covid elderly into care homes from hospital (Andrew Cuomo, New York, Gretchen Whitmer, Michigan), who have undermined and underfunded the police and seen violence and murder skyrocket.

The people saying that about Trump are deluded. It was Trump who suggested using HcQ to treat CV19, and those who hate him have been happy for people to die rather than admit he might be right.

82107 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #778 of 1097 🔗

If they get Biden they get his VP in reality. Dude has dementia.

Word is it will be someone like Kamala Harris who will basically just be a stooge for Hillary Clinton….

Honestly I’d vote for Trump any day over Biden getting in.

81781 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 14, #779 of 1097 🔗

Preston Council are appealing to youngsters to anti-socially distance with the slogan “Don’t Kill Granny”. Well, firstly, let’s have them for sexism: what’s wrong with not killing grandad?
More importantly, is there anyone on here local to Preston? Can you get any juicy stats on withdrawal of social services to older people in Preston due to lockdown, and subsequent increased risks of death, and, likewise, ask whether the local NHS trust might have possibly killed any grannies by stopping routine medical care?

81788 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Aremen, 14, #780 of 1097 🔗

As a slogan it’s reprehensible.

81793 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 12, #781 of 1097 🔗

As I’ve said lower down – it’s a f.ing insult to intelligence. The stupid bastards who came up with it are the ones who need to get a life – along with a lot of other qualities, whilst we Old Farts capably look after ourselves.

81878 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, #782 of 1097 🔗

They need to get Life…

81790 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Aremen, 11, #783 of 1097 🔗

The authorities have got a bloody nerve with that one! Could have been squarely aimed at Gove, Hancock et al but no…. it is the kids of Preston.


81800 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Aremen, 1, #784 of 1097 🔗

Does anyone know where this came from? It is in all the papers but I can’t locate a source.
I have seen a suggestion that it came from the local Director of Public Health but I can’t find anything relevant.

81801 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Aremen, 2, #785 of 1097 🔗

Well I do remember right at the beginning of this whole farce, one of the customers I was delivering to complaining to me that her husband had been discharged prematurely from hospital with no indication that he was well enough to be discharged.

81959 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Aremen, #786 of 1097 🔗


82404 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Aremen, #787 of 1097 🔗

Surely Granny ,and Grandad were killed off early doors when chucked back from hospital to the ‘care home’.

81787 wendyk, 3, #788 of 1097 🔗
81792 Marie R, #789 of 1097 🔗


Found this in the comments after the Daniel hannan piece. Shocking description of what’s going on in care homes

81795 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 17, #790 of 1097 🔗

Went to Wilko today (prefer not to, but no point shooting myself in the foot). I confess to wearing a snood, but, in my lockdown-induced fragile mental state I cannot face conflict. I complained to the guard on the door that they were not answering the phone when I rang to ask about stock, and she gave a very telling answer, telling in the way she linked two separate issues together. Verbatim, she said “We have a lot of staff off sick. But we don’t have to wear masks”. I said that was interesting as I had read [here] that staff in shops were going off sick with respiratory illnesses after being ordered to wear masks. Clearly, she or her colleagues have already linked sickness absence with mask-wearing.

81875 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Aremen, 3, #791 of 1097 🔗

Be interesting to see what happens if those going off sick because of masking problems sue Wilko’s.

82121 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Aremen, 1, #792 of 1097 🔗

Hmmm…. Had a few very summery days and a lot of staff are off “sick”. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence

81796 wendyk, 1, #793 of 1097 🔗


The crusaders knew a thing or two about ‘staying safe’; perhaps one of these would satisfy those who favour The Man In The Iron Mask level of protection. //:0 //:0

81806 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #794 of 1097 🔗

Someone posted this earlier about treatment with Ivermectin in severe C-19 cases


But they might be much more effective in prophylaxis and early treatment


“The FDA-approved drug ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro”
Ivermectin is an inhibitor of the COVID-19 causative virus (SARS-CoV-2) in vitro.
A single treatment able to effect ~5000-fold reduction in virus at 48 h in cell culture.
Ivermectin is FDA-approved for parasitic infections, and therefore has a potential for repurposing.
Ivermectin is widely available, due to its inclusion on the WHO model list of essential medicines.

Then this


Australia Professor Thomas Borody’s strong advocacy of ivermectin+zinc+antibiotic: “It looks like the coronavirus is very simple to kill”

Then this

Ivermectin to be used in Uttar Pradesh (Uttar Pradesh 204 million)

Bad news for Big Pharma. The whole project fear, project mask is built upon emergency authorisation by FDA and this cannot be in place if there is an easy treatment. If there is an alternative, the whole thing will fall like a house of cards and loss of profits. We can assume just as for HCQ that Big Pharma will instruct MSM/BBC, WHO, etc to do its best to stop this dangerous development of ivermectin.

81808 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to swedenborg, 1, #795 of 1097 🔗

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

81812 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, 2, #796 of 1097 🔗

Looks set to be the next victim of the big money coalition and its mouthpieces.

81815 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to swedenborg, 3, #797 of 1097 🔗

Charge Big Pharma with criminal negligence and them to Devils Island.

81850 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to swedenborg, 7, #798 of 1097 🔗

They’ll probably do a trial where they administer ivermectin to patients at toxic doses and then announce that it’s too dangerous to use.

82040 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Chicot, 1, #799 of 1097 🔗

Yes, the same as trialling HCQ without Zinc and Azithromycin and then saying it didn’t work.

82259 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to swedenborg, #800 of 1097 🔗

As long as Trump doesn’t recommend it, it might stand a chance of being used.
The best thing Trump could do is say that it’s harmful. The left will fall over themselves to prove him wrong.

81807 Cheezilla, 4, #801 of 1097 🔗

Calling anyone in West Yorkshire who’d like to meet up.

We’re trying to organise ourselves into an active group via the Keep Britain Free forum. We need ideas for somewhere with free parking that isn’t covid-crazy.

Look for us in the community section: KBF local>KBF North>West Yorkshire and join us!

81814 richard riewer, 3, #802 of 1097 🔗

If those shmoos want to rant about how much obesity costs the NHS each year ask them how many hundreds of billions of pounds that they have cost the UK since March 2020.

81824 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 14, #803 of 1097 🔗

Don’t shop at Waitrose. I’ve just heard that at one of their stores in Cheshire, somebody called the police out to two ladies who were not wearing masks properly. Pathetic. I thought the police had said they weren’t going to get involved? Cheshire Police obviously have nothing better to do.,

81848 ▶▶ anon, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #804 of 1097 🔗

a waitose employee?

81879 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to anon, 3, #805 of 1097 🔗

Probably a virtuous shopper as I don’t think this particular store have bothered before.

81892 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #806 of 1097 🔗

There should be a way of dealing with the snitchers!

81963 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #807 of 1097 🔗

I think they should be marched to the town centre and shot (with apologies to Herr Flick of the Gestapo)

81949 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to CarrieAH, 6, #808 of 1097 🔗

All this has certainly put paid to those British national stereotypes: ‘fair, stoical, free-thinking, bloody-minded individualists, etc etc).

The Panicdemic has shone a spotlight on many who would have, in alternative realities, become the police informants, Gauleiters, ‘Denunciation’-ers, etc.

There’s a good recent Triggernometry podcast in which Neil Oliver talks extensively about human nature and our ‘inner Concentration Camp Guard’, lurking there in all of us.

The worst (cerebral) thing about this (for me) has been the requirement for a complete re-write of those quintessentially ‘British’ characteristics I have, until now, long admired and felt proud of.

82074 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to GetaGrip, 1, #809 of 1097 🔗

We can never look down our noses at the Europeans over their behaviour in the 2nd world war

81826 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 31, #810 of 1097 🔗

Otley–Saturday afternoon.

I went for a walk into town this afternoon first stop Waitrose. Breezed in with no mask picked up a basket and proceeded to get my favourite chocolate, some baked beans, nuts and good walk around the place. Pleased with my notoriety of being the only customer without a mask but nobody said a dickey mint. Staff a mixture of masked, unmasked and one visor. Near the end of my shop I passed a young female assistant stacking shelves with no mask. I couldn’t resit paying her a compliment: ‘Nice to see a real face’ I beamed and after her initial surprise she gave me such a lovely smile not only with her face but with her eyes. Lovely reaction.

Next stop ‘Teales’ a local baker of nice bread and cakes. I’d noticed the other day in passing that they had a notice in their window saying: ‘You must wear a mask to enter—no mask no service’. I was determined to challenge this. In I went (no mask) and politely asked if it was OK to come in without a mask. ‘Yes, what would you like’. This sort of took the wind out of my sails and I said: ‘An iced bun please, but I was a bit put off by your notice’. ‘That’s all right’ she replied, ‘we got it off the internet, we serve anybody’. Paid for my iced bun by cash, gave her a big smile and left with the words: ‘a better sign would read: Please wear a mask if possible’.

My next stop was the Junction pub. Haven’t been here for a while but I was curious as to how things were panning out in this famous Otley hostelry. Went in the door and there were four other customers in front of me, all at the bar. A small table was there with pieces of paper to sign your name and ‘phone number and a box in which to place the completed slips. No supervision and it was up to you whether or not you bothered but I’ve been waiting for just such an opportunity. ‘Harry Hopkins’ was to be my non de plume but I’m afraid I just couldn’t resist and signed ‘Matt Hancock, H of Commons and added my ficticious ‘phone number. My half of Timothy Taylor Landlord went down a treat and my visit was altogether very pleasurable.

Anyone who knows Otley will know that the river and park are lovely and that on hot days rowing boats and pedillos are crisscrossing beside the bridge. The river bank was crowded and the queue to hire the boats was long. I stood and watched as a pedillo came near the river bank and after the family of four had alighted a crewman gave ONE seat a quick squirt (spray hardly noticeable) from a pump action sprayer. Playing ignorant I asked: ‘whats that for’? ‘It’s a sanitiser’ said the pleasant young man. ‘Sanitising for what?’ I continued. ‘It’s the virus, we have to do this’. ‘Is it anti bacterial’ I continued. ‘Couldn’t tell you mate we get it off the council’. ‘Well, if it is anti bacterial it won’t be much use against a virus, do you have to buy that stuff’? ‘Yes we do, the council sell it to us’. ‘If it’s only an anti bacterial sanitiser you would be just as well saving your money and spraying the boat with water’ I ventured. ‘Yeah, we’ve thought about that’ came the reply which conveyed to me the fact that they were going through the motions in full knowledge of the uselessness of it all.

The government may think that they have scared the population rigid and there is no doubt that they have succeeded in some quarters—notably Guardian readers and BBC watchers—but I’m coming round to the opinion that with more and more people the penny is starting to drop. I’m off to Whitby on Monday for a few days by the coast, if what I hear is true I’m sure to have a good time.

81834 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #811 of 1097 🔗

Good report.

On the ground it does sound like people are waking up to this scam.

81841 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #812 of 1097 🔗

Great work. Be ready next time…

Park Farm Cottage
Fornham St Genevieve
Bury St Edmunds
IP28 6TS
Phone: 01284 701 807
Email: matt@matt-hancock.com

82104 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to TheBluePill, #813 of 1097 🔗

Past few days I’ve been using this.


81869 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #814 of 1097 🔗

Only non muzzled person in Asda Otley this pm apart from the staff but no comments or glares. Pleasant time at Spoons. The Old Cock opens 17th Aug. Haven’t been in the Curious Hop recently but when it fully reopened the owner was in full muzzle and before it closed he had somewhat blanched when I said the virus should let rip so that we could get it over with . I may of course be misjudging.Last time I was in Junction , one way system and the T&T was very unoptional. I’m sure Hugh Janus enjoyed his beer that day.

81902 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 1, #815 of 1097 🔗

Sounds like the Junction has relaxed a lot!

81900 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #816 of 1097 🔗

Great report thanks. Sounds like an enjoyable outing.
The people in the bakery should get this year’s prize for thickest thickos.
I hope the boat people get away with their minimal compliance. Maybe they should start burying the stuff in case the council decide they’re not getting through enough.
Have a good time in Whitby.

81912 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #817 of 1097 🔗

Last time I was in before muzzle day it was cash only .Hope it has stayed that way.

81960 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #818 of 1097 🔗

Maybe we’ll be able to full face smile at each other. We’re there from Monday as well

81994 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #819 of 1097 🔗

Another heartening report. Lovely.

81831 Marie Larsson, replying to Marie Larsson, #820 of 1097 🔗

The estimate of Years of Life Lost (17 years on average) due to Mortality as a result of contracting COVID-19 seems far too high.

81845 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Marie Larsson, 3, #821 of 1097 🔗

The numbers are skewed dishonestly in all directions.

81853 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Marie Larsson, 12, #822 of 1097 🔗

Given that the median age of a COVID-19 mortality in E&W is 80+, I’d say it’s not “far too high” but pure bullshit

81901 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to IMoz, 2, #823 of 1097 🔗

I noticed earlier today while looking at the Australian data that while the median age of the ‘cases’ has dropped, from 45 to 38, since the start of July, the median age of death has actually risen, from 80 to 82, over the same period. Make of that what you will.

Also worth noting is the horrendous flu in Australia last year (Japan was similar I have heard though I have no figures for it). Official doctor certified deaths from flu last year was 3855 (full total probably around 4000 but won’t be available for another month or two), while it would seem to be typically about a thousand or so less than that. South Australia alone had 120,000 laboratory confirmed flu cases (presumably actual cases – that is to say, ill – not like this coronavirus farce). I have not seen figures for Australia as a whole or other states. Meanwhile there have been a bit over 20,000 ‘cases’ of coronavirus Australia-wide to date (most asymptomatic of course, so not cases at all), and under 300 deaths. It would be interesting to see if other countries with recent horror flu seasons (which does not include the UK by the bye, as in the five year period they use for averages I understand that not one was severe) have also been similarly untouched (by any objective criteria) by coronavirus. Too bad Japan seems to have been pretty measured, while Australia has gone insane, so I know which will likely be much better off sooner rather than later.

82006 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #824 of 1097 🔗

The PCR is being grossly mis-abused, even if taken outside of Mullis’ intent, I can’t remember where I read, so could be European CDC or the NHS, but you’re supposed to test patients who present with symptoms, not just everyone en masse. To top if off, some time between the Swine ‘flu and COVID-19, RT-PCR has graduated from presumptive to confirmatory!

82047 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to IMoz, #825 of 1097 🔗

It’s not even a test really, and that I guess is the common sense behind only using it on those with symptoms. No one’s bothered in these past months to try to develop an actual diagnostic test either. It beggars belief!

82013 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #826 of 1097 🔗

Thanks – nice data re the argument my son is having with friends re “Covid less lethal than flu”.

81891 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marie Larsson, #827 of 1097 🔗

Shouldn’t that read “as a result of the lockdown” ?

82254 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Marie Larsson, #828 of 1097 🔗

Considering that the average age for CV19 deaths is higher than life expectancy, I’d say it’s definitely too high.

83131 ▶▶▶ Marie Larsson, replying to Lms23, #829 of 1097 🔗

Maybe a clue, but it possible with, even with all the comorbidities. Relevant data is missing though. One problem: The care home reality has no weight. Still data of life expectancy after moving to a care home exists and the proportion of deaths is known(at least the excess).

Ex Sweden (I don’t have the data from UK, but surely not that different):
– median lenght of stay : ca 2 years (2,8 years in England )
-ca 1/3 of residents die within a year
– proportion of Cov19 related deaths: 47%

81833 Marvin42, replying to Marvin42, 1, #830 of 1097 🔗

I keep a little spreadsheet of my own… looking (from govt. dashboard) the hospital admissions for Wales seem remarkably high recently (all of July and Aug at least) compared to England – considering its population is only about 6% of England’s….

For example Admissions for August (1 – 5th )

1st August – Eng: 57 Wales: 29
2nd August – Eng: 74 Wales: 35
3rd August – Eng: 58 Wales: 29
4th August – Eng: 60 Wales: 65
5th August – Eng: 21 Wales: 74

Is there something odd about their reporting of admissions (e.g. extremely delayed?). Would have expected the admission numbers to be between 0 and 3 by now.

Reported Deaths for Wales are single figures and often zero for at least the last month or so…. like Scotland – something not adding up for me here.

Happy for someone to point out the obvious thing I may have missed… but I continue to lose confidence in the numbers reported…

BTW – the admissions are way higher than positive tests in Wales by day too – that can’t be correct can it?

81839 ▶▶ matt, replying to Marvin42, 3, #831 of 1097 🔗

The following link is from the BBC – so shoot me, it was the first one I came across with usable graphs. Do take it with an appropriate pinch of salt, however.


What strikes me about it is that Cardiff and Newport have the curve we have come to expect (cities, high population density), the rest of wales doesn’t seem to. You have a relatively low level of deaths bumping along.

I don’t know where these hospitalisations have come from, geographically, but I wonder whether the relatively rural parts of Wales have in fact been held back from experiencing the first wave proper and that’s the effect that we’re seeing here.

Someone who knows what they’re talking about will no doubt correct my cod-science speculation.

81852 ▶▶▶ Marvin42, replying to matt, 2, #832 of 1097 🔗

Thanks Matt and Guy… So much data! I guess it was the fact that daily Covid hospital admissions for Wales seems to be actually higher than England so many times in recent weeks when I would have expected them to be much, much lower given the difference in population…

Then Noticing that Welsh Reported Positive Cases on many days being LESS than their reported Admissions (Wales Only)…. made me think how can over 100% of Infections become hospital admissions, when for other countries is is more like 0.5%….

I’ll dig through the data you linked to when I get a mo. All I can say is that if I had provided numbers those on the Govt. Dashboard I would have lost my job long before now!

81857 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Marvin42, 7, #833 of 1097 🔗

I’m wondering if one of the reasons the government appear to be basing everything on absolute numbers of positive tests is because according to the Ministry of Truth we’re all going for tests all the time, they’re finding every single “case”, tracing contacts, and keeping our 95% susceptible population safe.

In reality they’re tracing about half the contacts of about 1.3% of the cases and this is having no effect on anything other than to be annoying.

81886 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 4, #834 of 1097 🔗

Bluntly – in the great scheme of things, and life in general – it’s insignificant bollocks. We are at a level where the numbers are below any sensible threshold for analysis, and random factors take over.

81844 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Marvin42, 2, #835 of 1097 🔗

You need to scale the number of positive tests up to the whole population (assuming it’s a random sample or close to, which it often isn’t)

The ONS data is the best and they estimate around 3000 new infections per day. Idk if that’s England or the UK but close enough. If about 50 of those get hospitalized that’s 1.6%. A little on the high side but not unreasonable. My suspicion however is that there are still some care home outbreaks and so some of the hospitalizations are coming from a different population.

81894 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 2, #836 of 1097 🔗

The key questions are (a) about what exactly is being ‘identified’ by dubious tests and dodgy analysis, (b) how this relates to hospital admissions, which will be for a number of reasons in reality and (c) does it have any significance (the important question)

What we do know is that there is no significant epidemic around at the moment. It’s the Monty Python parrot.

81910 ▶▶▶ Marvin42, replying to guy153, 2, #837 of 1097 🔗

I think I have got to the bottom this… in the data about section, Wales is detailed as:

Wales data include confirmed and suspected cases, and are the numbers of admissions to the hospital in the previous 24 hour period up to 9am. The numbers of admissions are not comparable with other nations.”

I think the word “suspected” is the key. That is must be why their reported admissions are many, many times more than the rest of the UK… e.g.

81883 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marvin42, 2, #838 of 1097 🔗

According to here, Welsh hospital covid admissions have been dropping steadily. Down from 116pd last week, to 96 yesterday. That’s from over 200 at the beginning of July and 300 in June:


81849 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 19, #839 of 1097 🔗

So, the completely normal pub where I had a lovely meal with Mr & Mrs Two-Six is now closed. Apparently a non local complained that not enough measures were in place. The owner confronted the manager (and licensee) and requested more measures to be implemented. He refused and it got heated, he walked away and with that the licence so the pub cannot operate. Fair play for standing his ground but so so sad.

81854 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, 3, #840 of 1097 🔗

Who’s the owner? (Assuming it’s corporate).

81856 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark, 5, #841 of 1097 🔗


81872 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 4, #842 of 1097 🔗

That self-righteous snitch should be pilloried!

81884 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 2, #843 of 1097 🔗

FFS that’s so bad. There was nothing wrong with the way that pub was running. What could they have to complain about?

81898 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 4, #844 of 1097 🔗

What do they have to be scared of let alone complain about? Some people should not be allowed to walk this earth.

It was my escape to normality.

81934 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 1, #845 of 1097 🔗

Hopefully the landlord will open it up again. I can’t see anybody would have any sort of case against him. Perhaps he just thought he couldn’t be bothered with it any more for what little reward he was getting.

81938 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 2, #846 of 1097 🔗

Hope so. The owner doesn’t live in the country, just hope it can open again soon and be normal like before. May apply for a drinks licence and apply for the job. Rename it The Sceptical Arms.

81921 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Sarigan, 2, #847 of 1097 🔗

Well, that’s just great! Some out of town Karen instead of frequenting another pub (more to her – or his – let’s not be sexist, liking) decides to put someone out of business. What kind of arsehole would do that?

Well done to the manager though.

81860 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, 14, #848 of 1097 🔗

“While a third added: ‘My worst nightmare, even before COVID. Too many people. We will never get over this virus if people are this stupid. Just because it’s hot doesn’t mean you should all pack a beach & not socially distance.’”

Jeez. We will only get over the virus if it disappears naturally or when we accept it as a fact of life like flu and that no matter what we do there will still be some cases and deaths from it.

82100 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #849 of 1097 🔗

Was this that silly Karen who went to the beach only to leave because there were too many people there? Newsflash love, you’re a person on the beach.

“You’re not stuck in traffic. You are traffic”. (German proverb- or was it an Audi ad?)

81864 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #850 of 1097 🔗


This is one of the articles used in the Lancet study where they concluded that masks might be a good thing. I will not criticise the Chinese authors calling SARS-Cov2 a sister to SARS-Cov1 but it sounds rather odd to use . Let’s give quotes and my comments

“Due to the uncertainty of clinically confirmed cases, only participants with a positive nucleic acid test result on real-time reverse-transcriptase–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) assay of nasal and pharyngeal swab specimens were considered cases” Perhaps begs the question what they meant with clinical confirmed case. Confirmed with what (as not PCR test)?.No explanation.
“Patients or members of the public were not involved in the design, conduct, reporting or dissemination of the research.” Strange phrase. Top-secret?
“The earliest patient who had been in close contact (within 1 m) while taking the weakest precautions was presumed to be the most likely source of infection.” In Queen’s English???
“The protection standards for infectious diseases in China was graded into three levels according to the following criteria: Level 1 protection: white coat, disposable hat, disposable isolation clothing, disposable gloves and disposable surgical mask (replace them every 4 h or when they are wet or contaminated); Level 2 protection: disposable hat, medical protective mask (N95 or higher standard), goggles (anti-fog) or protective mask (anti-fog), medical
7 protective clothing or white coats covered by medical protective clothing, disposable gloves and disposable shoe covers; Level 3 protection: as for level 2 protection replacing the goggle (anti-fog) or protective mask with a comprehensive respirator or higher-level respirator with an electric air supply filter (positive pressure head cover).” I am getting dizzy by the definitions
“To protect privacy, the hospital names were hidden in this article. All living infected medical staff members responded to this study. Information on the doctor who died was obtained from his family members and colleagues.” Glad that dead staff members didn’t responded would be rather spooky.
“There were 16 hospitals that have treated a total of 59 patients with craniocerebral disease who were subsequently diagnosed with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19.” What? Cerebral Covid-19? Or just nosocomial infected neurosurgical patients? Clarification please.
“There were 54 neurosurgeons and 66 nurses who were infected with SARS-CoV-2, including 60 males (50.0%) and 60 females (50.0%)” Bingo. Seldom see that exact number.
“The first occurrence of COVID-19 in this population was reported on 8 January 2020, with the number of confirmed cases reaching its peak on 19 and 29 January.” The single peak were on different dates?
“Of the 120 infected staff, 119 did not use standard protective measures at work before infection, which means that only one was infected during the period under level 2 protection.” So they didn’t have level1,2,3 at all? Perhaps interesting to explain what in China is normal protection if not level 1,2,3
“In this case series, one medical worker died of COVID-19, and thereby, the fatality rate was 0.8%. He was a neurosurgeon above fifty in Wuhan.” Why not exact age?
“The high number of cases among the medical staff members prompted us to analyse the causes of nosocomial infection and to provide a reference to the local authorities fighting the communicable disease.” Dramatic?
“On 20 January, the National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China classified the COVID-19 as a class b infectious disease and adopted control measures for class a infectious diseases.” Rather strange. Clarification?
“The diagnosis of this disease was difficult due to the diversity of symptoms and a lack of nucleic acid testing” Not evidence in this study as you said earlier all were diagnosed with PCR test
“They fought on the front line using level 2 protection and were isolated in specific hotels at rest” Describing medical staff not soldiers I hope.
“The virus has spread into other continents, including Northern America, Southern Asia and Europe” Have you heard of the new continent Southern Asia?
“In view of China’s successful experience in fighting the epidemic, strong control and social distancing policies may have played significant roles in reducing the rate of virus transmission.” A little post Maoist applause
“Our study has limitations” Couldn’t agree more
This type of publication was used as a reference in the Lancet article which now guides WHO recommendation of facemasks.
This paper should be in the dustbin instead of used as reference in a Lancet article with such a great impact.

81917 ▶▶ GLT, replying to swedenborg, 1, #851 of 1097 🔗

Thanks for taking the time it took to go through it!!

81866 Hypatia, replying to Hypatia, 15, #852 of 1097 🔗

Had a lunch out….first time since March. Very exciting!
But not what I would call normal. We were made to sanitise our hands before we could enter the courtyard to sit outside, then given a menu and a contact card to record our details. Our waitress was wearing a visor, but not a mask. We made our choices, which were brought out on a tray. We had to serve ourselves from the tray, and were told we had to load our dirty plates on it after use.

The food was lovely, but it all felt so….what is the word? Forced? As though we were being tolerated? As if we might put the staff and other people at risk? Hard to describe really.

Other people wandered in, some with masks on, others without. The most self righteous wore theirs until they had actually sat down at the table. I identified those as the people who have been made most afraid of “the virus”.

It was a very hot day, and many people did look uncomfortable as they wandered about with a piece of cloth on the lower half of their face. My other half and I didn’t put one on and we were not challenged anywhere – although to be fair, we didn’t bother with any shops. The majority of people in the street were unmasked, I’m pleased to say.
This was a small touristy type place in the south west, by the way.

81915 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Hypatia, 7, #853 of 1097 🔗

It is amazing how much variance there is. Went to a pub for lunch today where the only thing that was different was a track and trace book, which they stated was mandatory until I educated them that I could opt out. Everything else was totally normal.
On the other hand I recently went to a country ice cream/dairy farm place (also cafe, gift shop etc) where they insisted you muzzle up to get a coffee from the coffee shop (until I educated them about exemption) and they tried to take track and trace details at an outside ice cream stand!
Strangely the sheep don’t seem aware of the difference, they just go along with whatever they are told is required.

81928 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to TheBluePill, 4, #854 of 1097 🔗

Amazing it was only a couple of years ago that businesses were in meltdown because they did not want to get things wrong with GDPR, now it seems they are after every bit of data, scraps of paper, with name & address details freely floating around.

I dread to think how much data is ending up in the rubbish without being destroyed.

Maybe a good question, what are your processes for secure control of the data once it is in your care and secure disposal once you have finished with my data.

82098 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave #KBF, #855 of 1097 🔗

False details all the way 😆

81870 RickH, replying to RickH, 14, #856 of 1097 🔗

I was browsing my bookshelves, and realized that, over time, I had collected three books focusing on ‘Fear’ as a social phenomenon.

They all grew out of a growing awareness of (to put it bluntly) knicker-wetting as a dominant social fact.

The earliest, Frank Furedi’s ‘Culture of Fear’ was written around BSE time – 1996/7. It is amazingly prescient in describing (remember – over 20 years ago) the mutation of normal risk assessment into the concept of being always ‘at risk’ as an existential state.

We seem to be living in the culmination of that social pathology that has grown into a monster from that time on.

81874 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, 4, #857 of 1097 🔗

Fear is used as a political tool.

81877 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, 5, #858 of 1097 🔗

Indeed. But it only succeeds to this extent because of a long-growing social pathology.

81933 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, 1, #859 of 1097 🔗

It’s been incubated for the last 20 years.

81947 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to RickH, 2, #860 of 1097 🔗

I read that Furedi book at the start of this fiasco. This whole ‘we need to eliminate all risk, however small the probability’ started 20-30 years ago according to him. Great read and helped me a lot. I recommend the following Christopher Booker books also on how we got here:
Groupthink https://tinyurl.com/y2e4f7w6
Scared to Death https://tinyurl.com/y2ol22r2

81876 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 21, #861 of 1097 🔗


This is ludicrous! ONS claims that 96% of adults are “wearing masks outside their home”. Not where I live they’re not!

It then goes on to claim that 95% are wearing in shops, and 85% on public transport. So 1% take them off to go into a shop, and 11% take them off to use public transport, if 96% initially left the house with one on?!

81880 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #862 of 1097 🔗

No one here either.

81885 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #863 of 1097 🔗

How are The ONS getting their data? We know the other data is reported via NHS etc, do they have a secret army of data collectors out on the streets? If so they aren’t doing a very good job.

Found the data but seems to only be a bullet point, not actual data.

81904 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #864 of 1097 🔗

where indeed?

sounds like utter bullshit

81908 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #865 of 1097 🔗

The 96% etc. data is based on:

Source: Office for National Statistics – Opinions and Lifestyle Survey

81929 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dave #KBF, #866 of 1097 🔗

Aren’t all surveys Opinions surveys?!

81930 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #867 of 1097 🔗

Indeed they are but I bet the telegraph are not telling their readers that the 96% figure is based on a survey, rather than hard data.

It is from The ONS so it must be good.

82038 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #868 of 1097 🔗

Should have been reported that 96% of people claim to wear a face mask outside in ONS survey – headline could have been: Up to 96% of Survey Respondents Lie About Mask Wearing!

81889 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to A. Contrarian, 14, #869 of 1097 🔗

When they start bullshitting you know they’re losing the battle

81895 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #870 of 1097 🔗

yep… time is on our side…

81941 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #871 of 1097 🔗

The ONS couldnt possibly scrape that sort of data. Someone would have to be counting people through all the doors in every shop in the land, it’s not possible.

81946 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #872 of 1097 🔗

Yes – that’s pure bollocks, having observed a fair number of random samples during car journeys of varying lengths.

82008 ▶▶ Wesley, replying to A. Contrarian, #873 of 1097 🔗

Fake news. Or just clickbait.

82097 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, #874 of 1097 🔗

Proof that surveys and polls are bullshit.

82116 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to A. Contrarian, #875 of 1097 🔗

99% of criminals also claim to be law abiding citizens.

81896 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 20, #876 of 1097 🔗

I spend some time most days on the beach. Its been busy lately, although not as the media would have you believe, people have always sat with their own friends and family, social distancing is an evil concept. No masks around, which is the reason I go. People of all ages, on the beach, at the cafe, all as it has always been. The media are trying to cause rifts and stir up trouble, they are the problem. I don’t think anyone would think of covid now if they didnt bang on about it.

81907 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #877 of 1097 🔗

Of course not.

81961 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #878 of 1097 🔗

We wouldn’t even know about it. The media and government have wrecked the country and people’s lives – the media for click bait and the government to look important.

81913 Nobody2020, 3, #879 of 1097 🔗

Nice little piece on lockdowns and risk:

The risk game by Paul Chase

Paton reviewed the effectiveness of lock-downs in reducing cases of, and deaths from, covid-19 by taking a rational look at costs and benefits. Given the huge economic cost of lock-downs as well as costs associated with postponed operations, children not in school, and the rise of depression and anxiety in the population, he argues the benefits would need to be considerable to justify such costs.

81919 Castendo, replying to Castendo, 20, #880 of 1097 🔗

Post from bum fuk cattle town Portugal (near Spanish border)
No one wears masks unless going on places like Mayor House or Supermarkets…. they see the whole affair like another ‘Lisbon’ fad.. those simple folks are completely out of the loop…
No one gives a xhit… and by the way.. that no smoking rules inside restaurants or bars, no one gives a xhit either… you can smoke wherever you want..

I run a beef op there but I ‘still…’ live in Lisbon..

81925 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Castendo, 5, #881 of 1097 🔗


81957 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #882 of 1097 🔗

Yea, like people rationalising everything in a local way…

81920 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #883 of 1097 🔗

PHE on facemasks sorry if posted before


PHE discussing of facemasks

“The literature search was limited to evidence drawn from COVID-19 published between 25 March and 5 June 2020. The studies identified provide weak evidence based on their design (no RCTs and no prospective cohorts identified), quality (risk of bias in observational studies; modelling and laboratories studies provide only theoretical evidence) and publication status (15 out of 28 studies were non-peer-reviewed preprints;). In addition, the observational studies did not provide detail on the types of masks used or on compliance and do not permit a distinction between source control and prevention”

81922 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to swedenborg, 18, #884 of 1097 🔗

fuk the institutes of studies
At my age, I won’t wear a muzzle for a illness with an IFR of 0,1-0,2 %
and that’s that!

81924 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Castendo, 4, #885 of 1097 🔗

I agree

82044 ▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #886 of 1097 🔗

Masks are voodoo.
Our government is using voodoo to terrorise zombies.
When’s the next plane to Haiti?

81923 Mark, replying to Mark, 20, #887 of 1097 🔗

Laurence Fox: The Battle of Our Time is a Defence of Britain & Its Values and a Return From Covid-19
Some encouragingly sceptical noises coming from the hero of the hour.

Good enough for me. He might not be politically perfect from my pov (but who ever is), but I’ll march behind his banner if the insurrection begins.

81964 ▶▶ Aremen, replying to Mark, 2, #888 of 1097 🔗

Could Laurence Fox be the high profile celebrity our cause needs to grab the attention of the masses? What do you think?

81973 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Aremen, #889 of 1097 🔗

On the one hand, yes he’s articulate and definitely sounds as though he’s seen through the panic. On the other hand, he’s very much got woke issues that could be very distracting if he were leading an anti-coronapanic movement specifically.

If it were a case of a twin-headed movement where he rallied the centre right and conservatives while someone else rallied the ones on the left, that might work.

I’m just saying I’d back him for Supreme Leader anyway.

81981 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Mark, 1, #890 of 1097 🔗

Thanks for that. Worth listening to

81927 Dan Clarke, 8, #891 of 1097 🔗

It does seem like a ‘social experiment’ and a competition to see which country can win the ‘lowest emissions of the year’ prize (Davos the theme [to make 2020 zero emission year). Also ‘Event 201’

81952 Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, 59, #892 of 1097 🔗

Hi everyone,

To add to all the tens of thousands of words I’ve written on this topic over the past few months (and boy, it’s draining) I’ve drafted the following. It’s a kind of mission statement which I’m planning to use on social media, individual correspondence, etc.

Feel free to use it, tweak it, add links and extra data if you wish. Others on this forum have made their excellent posts available for sharing, so this is just my two pennies’ worth.

As follows:

Globally, liberal democracy has crumbled into totalitarianism. In the UK, and elsewhere, there are no longer any checks on executive power – no matter how absurd and self-contradictory its manifestations. There is no Opposition; Parliament is in a coma. The media have forsaken their independence and become government mouthpieces rather than instruments of scrutiny. Propaganda (using every psychological trick in the cult leaders’ playbook) is everywhere we turn. Censorship is rife, dissenting voices are vilified, and the public are openly invited to turn on one another – whether by snitching on neighbours or shaming the unmasked.

The measures taken by government have damaged us both physically and mentally. Much of this damage is irreparable.

Since March, they’ve destroyed livelihoods and small businesses; denied NHS treatment to the sick (the same NHS that we’re exhorted to worship with religious fervour); denied citizens the basic right to unlimited fresh air and exercise; trashed children’s education; trapped those who suffer domestic abuse; forcibly isolated people from one another, condemning the most vulnerable in society to weeks of extreme loneliness and neglect; and ultimately created a society in which, where we used to see human beings, we now see walking biohazards and recoil in disgust from a naked face.

And all this … for what? For a disease which, according to best available data, has an overall survival rate of at least 99.75% (akin to flu). A disease which for the vast majority is so mild they are not even aware they have had it; many others appear to have natural immunity. A disease for which, due to changes in the death certification process as well as the statistical fraud which Public Health England have admitted to, the official death figures have been grossly over-inflated (and even so, are *still* lower than the estimated 50,000 excess flu deaths of 2017-18). A disease which, according to all available data, peaked before lockdown and whose virulence in the UK has now virtually flatlined. A disease in which, globally, there appears to be a direct correlation between severe lockdowns and high mortality (and mandatory masking is woefully ineffective at reducing the apparent rate of infection – as well as running the risk of hypoxia, hypercapnia, and the continual re-inhalation and fingering of one’s own germs).

Yet society is too ignorant, gullible, innumerate, scientifically illiterate, politically naive and non-media savvy to realise what has taken place – or even care. The Romans spoke of giving the masses “bread and circuses” to keep them docile and compliant. Bread and circuses have now become Deliveroo and Netflix. But the principle remains the same.

The “new normal” which we are never allowed to forget, whether at home, out shopping, or in the pub where we are forbidden from socialising with anyone at another table … is this living? How long are you willing to tolerate this? Until Christmas? Next Spring? Indefinitely? Until the Vaccine-Messiah becomes available (whether or not it has undergone the requisite years of safety checks)? Constantly looking over our shoulder, never knowing when our leaders will decide to lock us up again?

Because I assure you: freedoms willingly given up are not easily restored. Learn the lessons from 20th Century history, and never again utter the words: “But it could never happen here.” It’s already happened.

81962 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Gossamer, 4, #893 of 1097 🔗

100% but who can you vote for?
Only ‘right wing’ (Catholic law and order ones) are against this madness…

81968 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Castendo, 11, #894 of 1097 🔗

I’m totally disillusioned with the whole Westminster cohort, and feel that nothing short of a total “deep clean” (ha!) and overhaul of the Commons will do.

I remember our Poppy said she’d always considered going into politics. Poppy, are you still up for it? I don’t think you’d have any problems in forming a core base of supporters 🙂

81986 ▶▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Gossamer, #895 of 1097 🔗

dunno… i’m just a rancher here.. with 2 kids in London…and the Pope is a joke…

82289 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Castendo, 1, #896 of 1097 🔗

Pope Francis is a disgrace, as are most of the Bishops and Cardinals. No mention that closing churches is unacceptable and outside of civil authority. Nothing about the need for people to go to mass and receive the sacraments. Just total subservience to this new order.

A few weeks ago while delivering groceries I stopped by a small house in the village of Houghton, a large plaque above the door said that St Edmund Arrowsmith used to say mass there before his arrest and execution. Those saints and martyrs must be turning in their graves at the disgraceful behaviour of the modern church.

82035 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Gossamer, 2, #897 of 1097 🔗

I agree I will not vote for any party that is in Parliament.

81998 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Gossamer, 4, #898 of 1097 🔗

A brilliant summary – thank you.

82005 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #899 of 1097 🔗

Cheers Miriam. There are some fantastic writers on this forum, and it’s nice to add something to the … I don’t know – shall we call it the Library of Testimony?

82068 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Gossamer, 4, #900 of 1097 🔗

I would also point out that our so-called leaders were warning that there’d be no return to normal back in March, as lockdown started. How could they have been so sure of that, before they really knew how deadly the virus was, or wasn’t.
And there was Grant Schapps, giving away £2bn of our money to councils for more cycle lanes while we were all shut away in our homes, and while businesses were going under – the epitome of fiddling while the economy and society burned.

81970 Bart Simpson, 24, #901 of 1097 🔗

Mr Bart and I went to Crystal Palace park today so it meant travelling to South London where to get to said park, one needed to take the bus from Brixton. Interesting to note that not many passengers were wearing muzzles, the driver just waved me through (I was wearing my exemption lanyard though) and I suspect that not only do bus drivers don’t enforce it but given that Brixton is a tough area, you wouldn’t want to mess with the people there (that Karen who gave me grief yesterday would probably have been beaten up if she tried to pull the same stunt she attempted at me in a no 432 bus).

Crystal Palace park – very normal save for 1-2 people wearing muzzles. Was gladdened by two sights:

  1. A birthday picnic where there was shaking hands and hugging
  2. At the ladies’ toilet, saw a mother and her child washing hands – kid picks up the hand sanitiser but mother snatches it away from her saying “no, no, that’s not the proper way to wash your hands. Here’s the soap” I muttered at silent “yeessss!” as I saw the mother supervising her child’s hand washing.

Also was surprised by Lambeth Coucil’s adverts about preventing the spread of the virus – basically telling people to use tissues to catch sneezes and washing hands with soap and water. No antisocial distancing, no muzzles, no hand sanitiser gunk. It’s a far cry from the doom mongering ones in my local council.

On the way home, passed by Trafalgar Square and no queues outside the National Gallery. Looks like mandatory muzzling is driving away people.

81977 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 23, #902 of 1097 🔗

Tonight’s quiz question:

How do you 77th Brigaders give themselves away when they go shopping?

Unless I get at least 10 likes for this I will not post the answer! 🙂 🙂

81984 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #903 of 1097 🔗

Dunno… may be this is one?

81991 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to smurfs, 2, #904 of 1097 🔗

Blimey, that was quick. 🙂

Nice try, Smurfs, but no.

The dead giveaway is the camo mask. This is the truth. Spotted today in Whaley Bridge, no less.

Army, be the bestest!

82018 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #905 of 1097 🔗

Us 77th Brigaders never give ourselves away, oops!

82028 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, #906 of 1097 🔗


82067 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #907 of 1097 🔗

They are aged about 24, they turn up on a £3500 racing bike with a carbon fibre frame, buy £1000 of shopping send it back to base in a taxi and leave 1000 compliant forms in the comments box.

81979 Keen Cook, replying to Keen Cook, 14, #908 of 1097 🔗

Quick update on travel to UK returning from France (which in rural Aquitaine ‘feels’ pretty normal except for mask-wearing everywhere). Busy restaurants & markets. A lot of people staying in local accommodation coming down from Belgium, Holland and from within France. Not so many Brits.
Jet2 Bergerac to Leeds Bradford – all masked. A very large lady mid 40s with an equally large teenage son put 2 masks on herself in the departure area before boarding and covered herself with gel. I had to look away otherwise I was going to tell her the risk to her life of chronic Type 2 diabetes and the subsequent problems for ever was much much worse than her chance of getting Covid. Coward that I am, I didn’t.
I confess I wore a mask (only over my mouth) as putting it over my nose makes me feel peculiar. Ripped it off in Leeds and marched through a very empty airport (where is everyone?). Clipped on medical exempt badge. Got on bus with happy bus driver and nobody else. He was unmasked and said he was only filling in for the interim bus company because the usual one has gone into administration. Young lad tried to board the bus on the way to centre of Leeds – first thing he said in the door “I haven’t got a mask”. The driver said ‘are you exempt’ (helpful hint I thought) but the lad said no and didn’t get on. I almost offered him my grubby one.
Train station quite busy but weird one-way system to get to far platforms. 3 carriage train to Hull (usually 2) for social distancing according to the driver. Middle carriage no air conditioning. I was the only passenger in that carriage (I like being warm) and I slept soundly till Selby! No-one asked about my ticket or commented about my face.
Airport very quiet. Train very quiet. What on earth is going to happen to transport? Everyone has taken to their cars?
Better than expected journey both ways. I know some on this site think wearing an exempt badge is a cop out, but I don’t like confrontation and the sheeples are ‘only’ doing their job (and may also want to keep it at all costs). But it works like a dream. No masks for me in the UK.

82155 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #909 of 1097 🔗

The roads are definitely busy, back at pre lockdown levels especially on routes to holiday destinations

82167 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #910 of 1097 🔗

I normally work at Heathrow Airport as a Licensed Aircraft Engineer. I say normally, as since Johnson decided to close down my industry, I’ve had to take up a job on nights at a supermarket distribution centre which pays a fraction of my normal wage. The airline industry has been destroyed.

Anyway, to my point. Airports have been absolutely dead since the middle of March. I remember sitting there looking at the ever decreasing arrivals from my airline, until the flights dropped down to almost none (from 12 per day to 3). At that point I felt my livelihood drifting away. It’s bad situation.

This was a direct result of project fear. Prior to International governments panicking, flight loads were holding reasonably steady, despite the news from China.

82206 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #911 of 1097 🔗

I flew a few days ago, came back into Britain from a European country. The British international airport was completely dead. Hardly a soul about. Baggage hall had nobody in it. One person at Passport Control. Whilst it was lovely having my own airport and a half empty plane, this cannot continue. Heads must roll for what has been done to our country.

81980 Jacky Bell, replying to Jacky Bell, 47, #912 of 1097 🔗

Excuse me while I rant before I have even finished today’s post. The President of the Royal Society of Surgeons is clearly an idiot who has never heard of Sweden or Japan, either that or he is shit scared of the postmortem. Some of us repeatedly alerted our friends in the media to the deaths that would be caused by locking down – not because we are ‘super forecasters’ but because we are not thick.

My daughter recently attended a socially distanced, outdoor event with drinks – formally known as a party (when fun was allowed). She met an ambulance worker who said they were told to avoid bringing people to hospital and it played on his mind because, as he drove away, he knew some of the people he left behind were going to die.

Can I ask the President of the Royal Society of Surgeons if he thinks the ambulance drivers left morphine or were people left to die in their homes, in agony, in order to save the NHS? Just as those with dementia died believing their families did not love them.

The powers that be, did not just turn to the ‘dark side’ during this episode, they took us back to the dark ages. How can anyone claim the NHS was not overwhelmed when people died at home sometimes in agony because they were being refused treatment. If that’s a fully functioning NHS the bar is set too low.

I know this site is really hard work but I hope Toby keeps going because the brutality of what we did must be exposed and heads must roll.

81993 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jacky Bell, 19, #913 of 1097 🔗

Yes, it’s genocide and they should be at The Hague – Boris, followed closely by Hancock, Simon Stevens, the CSO, CSA, Cummings, the rest of the Cabinet, and the heads of all the various medical bodies that have been absent in action.

82009 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jacky Bell, 3, #914 of 1097 🔗

Thank you for writing. Messages like your are central to our collective cause.

I am not certain I am of the same species as an ambulance driver who chooses to remain quiet in such circumstances. But I don’t know the full situation and know paramedics must have a huge moral courage just to do their job.

The high-ups are the equals of third reich criminals.

82041 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 1, #915 of 1097 🔗

Coronavirus Trials begin soon.
Keep the evidence rolling in. It will hang them.

81982 swedenborg, 11, #916 of 1097 🔗



 “On lockdown success Enclosed nuns LIFESTYLE is the hardest social isolation possible. We all consider a tough sacrifice and considered the epitome of social distancing Well, 10 out of 11 enclosed nuns has showed CV positive test Does isolation works?!
(They are asymptomatic) (Don’t ask why tested)

81983 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 24, #917 of 1097 🔗

Thank you again, Margaret! I put the exempt badge to the test today and got a result. 2 people in the nearest Coop without muzzles plus a bloke with his t-shirt pulled up over his mouth. When he came out, we (i.e. husband) and I were giggling and he said, ‘I keep forgetting my mask’. I pointed to my badge and his eyes lit up. ‘Where do you get one of those?’. I said I’d sent for it but he could print one himself from Govt and other websites. He said ‘Is having a brain a reasonable excuse?’. Guess what our answer was! 🙂 ‘Turns out he’s a total sceptic but has obviously found opposition when trying to convince other people. He was delighted to meet us and we encouraged him to keep going as he’s not alone and other people are slowly waking up. (I hope).

Usual good conversation with our wine-shop sceptical mate but walking home we met our next-door neighbour. She has heard that ‘numbers are going up in the High Peak because people work in Manchester and they’re ‘getting it ‘ ‘ Oh boy. Hopefully it’s Arsebook Hysteria (she lives on it) but we’re not burying our heads. Collective punishment is here to stay and it could well be our turn next. Sod ’em.

Another thing she told us is that if a school has 2 ‘cases’ it will be considered to have an ‘outbreak’ and will have to be closed. A ‘case’ is a child with ‘symptoms’ who then has to be quarantined along with their whole family (presumably following that oh-so-reliable PCR test.) If true, no school is going to stay open beyond the first week or so because any symptom of anything is going to be the Black Death and they’ll get their positive results, no problem. Cue more people losing their jobs because they can’t work for 2 weeks or even longer.

81990 ▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #918 of 1097 🔗

I wonder how long school teachers will take to realise that education can be delivered by a ‘platform’ that does not require a ‘full team’ of teachers!

81997 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Che Strazio, 5, #919 of 1097 🔗

The problem is, an individual teacher has no power to stop this nonsense. Some of them, probably in the minority unfortunately, are tearing their hair out and just want to get back to normal. The Government is blaming the unions but I don’t believe this is the whole story.

82049 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #920 of 1097 🔗

It is actually probably the majority.

82078 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #921 of 1097 🔗

On what basis?

Their representatives seem remarkably impervious to their own members’ opinions if that’s the case. If you are correct, that suggests teachers collectively must be profoundly stupid – so stupid they’re somehow unable to communicate their supposed desire to get back to normal to their own union representatives.

Tempting as that is to believe, having dealt with plenty of them during the course of raising four children to adulthood, it seems more likely, especially given the widely expressed opinions of plenty of teachers, that the bulk of them are either cowards, or enjoying their situation, or both.

My suspicion is that you are allowing wishful thinking to influence your analysis, there.

82026 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Che Strazio, 1, #922 of 1097 🔗

I forgot to say in my answer that I think that you are correct. ‘Teaching’ will be streamlined and automated and the teachers sidelined. Curricula will be further homogenised.

Successive school closures will be used to advance this agenda. The unions do not realise it but they are helping bring this about by bleating on and on about ‘safety’.

82059 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #923 of 1097 🔗

The union bleaters will be fully aware of their role. All part of the plan, innit ? 🙂

82119 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #924 of 1097 🔗

Similar process to occur with GPs. The more digital working they do the more AI systems are learning how to take over from patient doctor contact. Hancock made a speech about some of these aspects to GPs recently. I beleve tge hall knew the implications for their profession. Aopolgies no link. Search hancock speech to gps royal soc(?) Or similar.

82147 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #925 of 1097 🔗

absolutely – could have all online lessons (pushing the government mantra) and save the trouble of having teachers!! children could have local centres for tutorials and extra tuition and maybe sports if the kids are luckly.
Hard to believe but if the unions keep up their resistence this is what will happen, and the same with universities.
All go digital and AI – welcome to the future with very little social interaction!!

82064 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Che Strazio, 1, #926 of 1097 🔗

Too long.

I work in a school and talking to teachers about the possibility that the future could need fewer teachers and more use of MS Teams for teaching, with less face to face teaching they just cannot see it.

I can.

82001 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #927 of 1097 🔗

Great write up Miriam! Great news and awful news all at once

81999 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #928 of 1097 🔗

sign the petition to repeal the coronavirus act

82061 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Dan Clarke, #929 of 1097 🔗

already done… couple of weeks ago now

82070 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dan Clarke, #930 of 1097 🔗


82000 Castendo, 5, #931 of 1097 🔗

Can we all agree that this ‘new normal’ enchilada, is lame and booring…

82002 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #932 of 1097 🔗


This is a rather well written report for the general public from an ER doctor in Stockholm(photo of him not normal PPE but joke a la Peter Hitchens)
“Practically everyone who was tested had covid, regardless of what the presenting symptom was. People came in with a nose bleed and they had covid. They came in with stomach pain and they had covid.
An interesting observation. In the explosion of cases probably many asymptomatic infected presenting with other symptoms just were diagnosed in the screening. This could explain the high hospital infection rate. Massive asymptomatic infections at the same time as symptomatic infections.

“ Everybody who works in the emergency room where I work has had the antibody test. Very few actually have antibodies. This is in spite of being exposed to huge numbers of infected people, including at the beginning of the pandemic, before we realized how widespread covid was, when no-one was wearing protective equipment.
He is probably correct about non antibody based immunological protection and also the observation that for those who say that herd immunity was not reached, where are the patients?
His statement about highest death rate not quite correct, high but not highest

82027 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to swedenborg, #933 of 1097 🔗

It’s interesting that there was a 10 fold increase in respiratory deaths. By that measure alone you could get the impression Ferguson’s model would apply.

But I wonder if a lot of that is the care home effect or more exactly, putting infected people back into a vunerable population. Sweden did admit that the introduction of infected people back into the care homes wasn’t a great idea. I know people have looked at New York and seen the same effect.

82055 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to mhcp, #934 of 1097 🔗

Not just New York. Michigan as well, if I remember correctly. Both states run by Democrats, none of whom have admitted to making that mistake.
Has Hancock acknowledged how awful the decision was here?

82072 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to mhcp, #935 of 1097 🔗

Lots of other reasons.Badly trained staff in care homes working in multiple locations.Visitors allowed in the beginning of the pandemic.I think that was the main reasons for the severe outcome of Covid-19 among the elderly especially in Stockholm.

82043 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Major Panic, #937 of 1097 🔗

That sounds properly promising

82004 Basics, 9, #938 of 1097 🔗

Bannatyne publicly says Sturgeon has a hidden agenda. Regardless of what he is or his motives are – he has said what needs to be said. A critism that gives people a talking point and a way of starting to discuss wrongs.

“In a separate tweet, Bannatyne wrote: “Unfortunately many people in Scotland are suffering due to @NicolaSturgeon but she has the power.

“It is obvious that @NicolaSturgeon has a hidden agenda.””


82007 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #939 of 1097 🔗


 Florida in the big outbreak now subsiding. CFR going down for all age interval incl. over 65 substantially. Better treatment or weaker virus?

82029 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 1, #940 of 1097 🔗

How are they defining a “case”? If a positive test counts as a case you can get the CFR as low as the IFR just by doing more tests.

82066 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 1, #941 of 1097 🔗

I suppose they use the CDC defnition. Many asymptomatic would drive down CFR but they have had an uptick of pcr + as percentage of all PCR tests done as well as increase in hospitalizations and ICU beds although all is now downwards so they had a genuine outbreak. But younger and many more asymptomatic included driving down the numbers.

82152 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to swedenborg, #942 of 1097 🔗


82010 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 26, #943 of 1097 🔗

Well folks, you’ve done it again. I visit this site daily and spend a great deal of time reading the always enjoyable comments section. This is by far the best website on the planet. Cheers Toby!!

I’m thinking we need to come together and demand political asylum complete with our own new country. Call it Skeptopia or something. They could erect huge walls around our new country to protect the neighboring countries from the 18th or 19th wave of Covid, surely to be blamed on wee Skeptopia (with all of its covid denier citizenry).

Just imagine, we could all enjoy life again while every other country around us continues the covid merry-go-round from hell and yearning for any kind of normal to appear again. Seriously we’re going to soon need our own country to keep our sanity.

82036 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Eddie, 4, #944 of 1097 🔗

Or at this rate, a new planet.

82110 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lms23, 8, #945 of 1097 🔗

Why not just persuade the maskers to live underground and leave the upper world to us diseased and dangerous ones?

82122 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #946 of 1097 🔗

And we can call the two countries “Old Normalia” and “New Normalia”. Guess which one will be the most fun to live in?

82136 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Achilles, 2, #947 of 1097 🔗

Normalia Normalia, so good they named it twice!

82249 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Achilles, 1, #948 of 1097 🔗

Normalia is now just a legend. A golden age that shall never be seen again…

82151 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, 1, #949 of 1097 🔗

Elon Musk will be there to greet us.

82114 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Eddie, 3, #950 of 1097 🔗

Could we have a beach with an ocean pool? 🏊 😊

82191 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Girl down Under, 1, #951 of 1097 🔗

Our economy will solely focus on mask production for export 🙂

82011 swedenborg, 7, #952 of 1097 🔗


Map showing closed(red),partially(light red) closed and open(blue) schools in the World.2nd Aug

This must be the most grotesque decision ever done.

82012 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 18, #953 of 1097 🔗

I thought British comedy was dead, but I just saw an advert on Sky F1 and it said “Sky News, News without an agenda”

The writers of that are comedy geniuses!

82034 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to JohnB, 1, #954 of 1097 🔗

Perhaps they just mean they make it up as they go along.

82056 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to JohnB, 3, #955 of 1097 🔗

Sky News Australia has Alan Jones, however. His diatribes on this whole issue have been excellent.

82112 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Gossamer, 2, #956 of 1097 🔗

Along with Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones is one of the best commentators in this country. However he is not liked by the msm and his followers are considered nut jobs. He had been on morning radio for years always presenting his arguments with well researched and independent points of view. Occasionally he would draw the ire of some by making an inappropriate comment or two, usually from the PC brigade. I really miss listening to him on the radio, a sensible voice in a world of madness.

82086 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, #957 of 1097 🔗

Sure it wasn’t “any gender”? That would make more sense.

82111 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to JohnB, #958 of 1097 🔗

Akin to this drivel from the website of the vile BBC:

“The BBC is recognised by audiences in the UK and around the world as a provider of news that you can trust. Our website, like our TV and radio services, strives for journalism that is accurate, impartial, independent and fair.

Our editorial values say: “The trust that our audience has in all our content underpins everything that we do. We are independent, impartial and honest. We are committed to achieving the highest standards of accuracy and impartiality and strive to avoid knowingly or materially misleading our audiences.

“Our commitment to impartiality is at the heart of that relationship of trust. In all our output we will treat every subject with an impartiality that reflects the full range of views. We will consider all the relevant facts fairly and with an open mind.””

82150 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cambridge N, #959 of 1097 🔗

Well I would never have guessed at all that, but if the BBC say so then it must be right. Good to know.

82019 Will, replying to Will, 3, #960 of 1097 🔗

Looks like Handcock is finally fucked.

82025 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Will, #961 of 1097 🔗

Why do you say that?

82058 ▶▶ anon, replying to Will, #962 of 1097 🔗

go on..

82143 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to anon, 3, #963 of 1097 🔗

This ?


Knives out for Matt Hancock

“Health secretary Matt Hancock is being blamed in Whitehall for a series of poorly focused Cobra meetings at the start of the pandemic which hampered early attempts to fight the virus.

He has been accused by senior government figures of failing to get a grip on the crisis when he chaired a series of Cobra meetings before the Covid-19 crisis took hold – a claim strongly denied by Mr Hancock’s friends.”

82146 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to DomW, 3, #964 of 1097 🔗

He has friends?!!!!

82102 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Will, #965 of 1097 🔗

Please tell us!

82108 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Will, #966 of 1097 🔗

The suspense is killing me….

82022 Edward, replying to Edward, 15, #967 of 1097 🔗

This idea that we have to conduct ourselves by wearing a mask so as to protect other people’s health – does it also mean we can whip cigarettes out of their mouths and confiscate cakes from fatties?

82031 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Edward, 3, #968 of 1097 🔗

Hmmm. Why not? It’s the same logic…

82032 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Edward, 4, #969 of 1097 🔗

Yes, and patrol the biscuits and sweety isles at supermarkets to stop fatties and save the nhs

82046 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Edward, 3, #970 of 1097 🔗

I volunteer to be cake monitor.

82084 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Edward, 3, #971 of 1097 🔗

Right, I’ll be the choc bar monitor then!

82094 ▶▶ James007, replying to Edward, 1, #972 of 1097 🔗

Yes it’s like lifestyle risk is being socialised.
Worrying as I doubt the government and those that advise them have much idea about obesity and how to reduce it. It’s more complicated than making fast food a bit more expensive, and offering tax payer funded bribes. People make choices for all sorts of reasons.
It wouldnt suprise me if we see more complely ineffective policies, like tax payer funded gym memberships and fatty food taxes.

82140 ▶▶▶ BobT, replying to James007, 5, #973 of 1097 🔗

Yes, Government imposed restrictions in the name of safety or lowering risk are nearly always counterproductive.

The little Casribbean country where I live has very few of these restrictions.

No drink driving laws, yet our annual road death tally is 6 per 100k while in the USA its 12 per 100k.

Cigarettes are untaxed and cost about GBP 1.50 a pack yet most people do not smoke (except herb!)

Alcohol is untaxed and cheap but we have no more drinking problems than anywhere else.

We have no Health and Safety requirements at work yet we have very few accidents. In 35 years of running my construction company the worst accident was somebody missing a nail and hitting their thumb with a hammer. We do use common sense to improve our safety though.

I could list more but to most ‘Westerners’ this would all seem counterintuitive because everyone has become accustomed to their government’s policies. My fear is that these present restrictions imposed in the name of coronavirus will also become the norm and entrenched as society’s rules permanently and for absolutely no good reason.

82142 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to James007, 1, #974 of 1097 🔗

You think the government actually cares about our health?

82134 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Edward, 2, #975 of 1097 🔗

Happy to take on chocolate eclair watch…

Where does it end? Pointless mountaineering banned? Skate boarding? Not sure how I feel about boxing and rugby. We’ve already banned heading footballs. What kind of cocoon will be allowed and who is choosing it. It’s a steep and slippery slope from cake monitor to mandatory exercise classes governed by fit bit heart activity.

By the way, I consider the hive mind explosion in mass participation sporting events to have fostered in part the unquestioning uptake of diktats. Much more prevelant in recent years. Tracked back to Cram and the 1980s London Marathon.

82178 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #976 of 1097 🔗

Banned heading footballs ?! You’ve not been watching Sadio and Virgil this season, have you ?

Tracked back to Ancient Rome, circuses.

82252 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #977 of 1097 🔗

Im talking about football so already outside comfort zone and now you throw me a googly of Ancient Rome!
But yes, heading footballs has been banned in Scotia. If you are under some age and then at another age you are only allowed to head on match day. Not a joke. A micro managment of life. As I say I’m not too sure where/how/why/where and how again that leaves boxing or rugby.

82190 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Edward, 1, #978 of 1097 🔗

Chasing down bad drivers and pulling them from their cars would also be applicable

82194 ▶▶ BobT, replying to Edward, 6, #979 of 1097 🔗

Now, I am a little porky and I smoke a lot so it is your civic duty to take these things from me. But then I am also 6’3″ an built like a brick shithouse….so just try it mate!

82207 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Edward, 5, #980 of 1097 🔗

What I find insulting about this concept of Covid-Secure is how paltry they assume our ambitions and aspirations are. That all we want out of life is to be ‘safe’ at all costs.

82023 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, #981 of 1097 🔗

Just watched Official Secrets, makes you never want to believe a politician again

82030 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Dan Clarke, #982 of 1097 🔗

Go with that. Assume they’re lying, it’ll save being disappointed later.
Was the film any good? Don’t tell me about the plot, as I’m saving it to watch in the next day or so.

82075 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Lms23, #983 of 1097 🔗

Yes it was good and interesting, very

82051 Allen, 1, #984 of 1097 🔗

Would like to hear from some folks here- is this consistent with what you have been seeing in the UK and if so would you have any other links/references/stories that corroborate this- UK Lawyer speaking about a care home whistle blowers account of euthanasia in a care home:


82065 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #985 of 1097 🔗

Sensible piece in the Washington Post:

“Forty percent of people with coronavirus infections have no symptoms. Might they be the key to ending the pandemic?“


82091 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sarigan, 2, #986 of 1097 🔗

Forty? Where did they get that from? Isn’t it more like 80?

82133 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Farinances, 1, #987 of 1097 🔗

It’s a start!

82077 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 17, #988 of 1097 🔗

I feel nauseous posting this as it just seems like more click bait from the DT, but here goes.


The comments however make me physically sick. Heres one example.

“Fat people should be isolated and only be provided with low cal food delivery rations – fruit and veg etc.

Problem solved!”

Fucking fascist fuckwit

82083 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Howie59, 4, #989 of 1097 🔗

To be fair, though, the most popular comments are all scathing, and rightly so.

82101 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Howie59, 6, #990 of 1097 🔗

Staying indoors will really help to improve their health, won’t it?

Seriously, does anyone really believe that anyone has contracted the virus whilst out walking in the open air?

82120 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #991 of 1097 🔗

Apparently all the maskholes in Toronto who wear them outside for no good reason, which is why I’m holed up in my country place where I don’t need to see a soul. As for the article, couldn’t read it but I get the idea. As someone who is healthy and 55, I fully expect my husband (who is in the best shape of his life) and I to be “encouraged” to lock ourselves up for the foreseeable future. And that’s with a whopping 70 new cases in Ontario today (population over 14 million).

82131 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #992 of 1097 🔗

maskholes, he he, nice one 😏

82141 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #993 of 1097 🔗

Does anyone seriously believe that Covid-19 isn’t just influenza rebranded?

82189 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #994 of 1097 🔗

This is what boggles my mind to no end. I have always – and I mean always – have caught colds from sick co-workers who come into work and expose me to their germs for a couple days or so. Stuck indoors with infected people and chances are high you’ll soon be suffering from the same virus. Everyone knows that.

But now we have super cold virus covid which hangs in the air wherever there is air, and can swoop in on un-suspecting human targets like a swarm of hornets. I mean why else would you wear a mask outside if you didn’t think this was true?

I am so bewildered at the sight of masked people walking alone outside. I just encountered a few earlier today and yelled “noooooooooooooooo!” out the window as I drove past. Please, somebody tell them it’s safe to be outside!

82204 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #995 of 1097 🔗

Yes cos we all got thinner in lockdown, not!

82081 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #997 of 1097 🔗

Just watched ‘Children of Men’, thought I was watching a documentary at some points.

82087 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 1, #998 of 1097 🔗

That was probably a mistake. It’s a very scary film. Even scarier now. I remember at the time it left a lasting impression and I wondered if the future would look like the film. It’s almost does. Especially the visors the cops wear.

82106 TPFR, replying to TPFR, 11, #999 of 1097 🔗

Hello. I thought I’d share my own experience of the last couple of weeks. I refuse to cover my face for the same reason I refuse to stand outside and clap for the NHS or display a rainbow flag in my window: it’s so clearly about forcing people to declare support for a cause, and it’s a horrible infringement of civil liberties. I’ve mostly shopped online and I’ve written to my MP, a health minister, explaining my thoughts. Two weeks ago was my first experience of breaking mask rules, with a car mechanic, and with me the only customer. Not at all awkward. Last week I visited a corner shop. The shopkeeper is a friendly Indian man who never attempted to enforce a one-way system or limit the number of customers in his shop and seemed to have limitless supplies of flour, tomato purée and hand sanitiser when these things were in short supply elsewhere. I was disappointed to see him in a mask with a screen and a notice saying only three customers were allowed in at a time. He was perfectly friendly and didn’t say anything about my lack of mask but I was embarrassed and felt I was taking advantage of his better nature. Others were masked. Tesco Express this evening, somewhere in the home counties, was very different. About twenty people, most looking like they’d made the best of their Saturday nights and only four in masks. There were some conspiratorial smiles but otherwise it felt almost normal. I’d happily go back. Sadly church is not easy for us Catholic lockdown sceptics. That I am being asked to choose between missing Mass and being conscripted into the covid cult is simply intolerable. I can’t convincingly lie to “stewards” who know perfectly well I’m not legally exempt. I shall see what happens tomorrow.

82113 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to TPFR, 4, #1000 of 1097 🔗

Can the stewards know all hidden exemptions such as distress and anxiety?

82129 ▶▶▶ TPFR, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1001 of 1097 🔗

Probably not. But I’m a bad liar. And I’m uncomfortable doing it with people I know personally, and who will work out the motives. It’s probably not an option. I might be able to slip in half an hour before and sit somewhere inconspicuous. But how has it come to this!?

82132 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TPFR, 2, #1002 of 1097 🔗

They don’t want you, so why bother? Say a prayer at home and make sure they get a brass farthing from you in future.

82139 ▶▶▶▶▶ TPFR, replying to Rowan, 1, #1003 of 1097 🔗

Oh dear. Any full answer to that is going to be very off-topic. “They” aren’t a monolith. And if staying at home and saying a quiet prayer were a straightforward alternative the churches (all of them) would look very different.

82176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TPFR, 1, #1004 of 1097 🔗

smaller ?

82202 ▶▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to TPFR, 6, #1005 of 1097 🔗

You are not lying. Reg 4 provides a reasonable excuse of severe distress. This is subjective and for the enforcement authorities to disprove. If you are contemplating foregoing church so as NOT to wear a mask, how does this not suggest severe distress? I am using this excuse. I believe a number of others on this site are doing likewise. It is not easy. But if you believe, as I do, that there is zero credible medical justification for the mask, that they will cause a number of minor and in some cases severe reactions then being forced to wear one is an act of aggression against me and submitting to this diktat would be an act of self-harm. My distress is real.

82118 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TPFR, 5, #1006 of 1097 🔗

Encouraging news about your Tesco metro, I think many bare-face shoppers come out to play at night. I went into my little onestop (Tesco) to post a parcel, bare-faced, all other shoppers were nappied-up. So was the cashier lady, with one on her chin, behind a screen. She has worked in there for years, she wasn’t happy at all with my bare-faced cheek pulled her little black mask up and typed angrily into her package registering thing.

Hummm, poison.

82145 ▶▶▶ TPFR, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1007 of 1097 🔗

It’s why I wish there were a way of sharing these experiences and finding the easiest places to shop, which actually deserve our money. I haven’t said where the Tesco was in case I get the staff into the trouble but it must be the same everywhere late in the evening.

82177 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TPFR, 1, #1008 of 1097 🔗

Each chain seems to vary depending on their local management, TPFR.

82156 ▶▶ RickH, replying to TPFR, 8, #1009 of 1097 🔗

‘Exemption’ isn’t about legality – and it applies to everyone if you wish to claim it, since masks obviously and rationally cause you distress, and they incontrovertibly cause discomfort and inhibit normal breathing.

82157 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to TPFR, 7, #1010 of 1097 🔗

Go to Mass, if you feel uncomfortable wearing a mask go without, the only person judging you will be your god, not the steward at the door, not your priest.

Have strength.

82198 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1011 of 1097 🔗

Well said.
Meet your God face to face.

82232 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to TPFR, 1, #1012 of 1097 🔗

As well as the “distress” exemption, another exemption is:

“to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others”

Wearing a mask risks harm, or injury, to my own physical health. Government should not oblige me to self-harm.

82109 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1013 of 1097 🔗

Here’s something for you to try … go to google and put in three random digits followed by ‘new cases’ and see what comes up. Then try again with different three numbers. See what happens each time. What are the odds! I put in 958, Japan had 958 new cases. Every three digit number returns results with new cases.

82115 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Basics, 1, #1014 of 1097 🔗

Just did that, a new place or country comes up every time with the number, manufactured or what

82117 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 2, #1015 of 1097 🔗

Basics that has been happening for some months, maybe even from March.

82123 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, #1016 of 1097 🔗

Algorithm fix is it? I tried four digits and top result was a covid result – even though the random figure I chose was not the number of new cases in the search result.

82127 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 1, #1017 of 1097 🔗

Would not put it past them.

Anything to keep the fear alive.

82125 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, 3, #1018 of 1097 🔗

Would love to believe this one and it does happen but surely just down to probability and the limited number of 3 digits options and huge number of reports over a 6 month period??

82148 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, #1019 of 1097 🔗

Planet sized brain to work it out please! Four digits ‘6821 new cases’ picked at random. Something is up with that result – it prioritises new covid cases over other results even though the number is relating to active cases.

82135 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 1, #1020 of 1097 🔗

Whatever number I type in, before completion the top hit is new cases. So, basically type in a number into search and it suggest new cases.

82291 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to PoshPanic, #1021 of 1097 🔗

It might be a Google thing, i.e., it’s suggesting that new cases is a very common search term.

You can’t trust Google.
Try typing in “men can” and “women can” and see what it suggests as most common search terms. It’s a deliberate algorithm manipulation, highlighted by Project Veritas.

82137 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 7, #1022 of 1097 🔗

If I put in zero does that mean we can call this hoax off and go back to the good old days

82163 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Basics, 1, #1023 of 1097 🔗

Yep + every time – the number 33 also proves popular

82164 ▶▶ steve, replying to Basics, 1, #1024 of 1097 🔗

That’s really creepy!

82168 ▶▶ Bigland, replying to Basics, 1, #1025 of 1097 🔗

Wow, I’ve yet to find a 3 digit number that doesn’t return a “xxx new cases of coronavirus” headline in the first 10 results, even using duckduckgo.com. Every permutation of 958 seems to work, for example. I’m sure there’s some reasonable statistical explanation.

82124 Yawnyaman, replying to Yawnyaman, 4, #1026 of 1097 🔗

Just watching ITV News stating that a further 55 people had died from coronavirus today. Clearly accuracy is not their strong point. This preceded a simpering account of increased lockdown measures. Critics of the BBC should remember that commercial tv newscasters are as biased and also more stupid.

82128 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Yawnyaman, 7, #1027 of 1097 🔗

Indeed but we don’t have to pay them to legally watch live television.

82130 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Yawnyaman, 3, #1028 of 1097 🔗

“It comes after Public Health England revealed the number of people to have died in hospitals after testing positive for coronavirus had risen by 16.
In England, the total number of confirmed reported deaths in hospitals now stands at 29,401.
The patients were aged between 67 and 100 years old and all had known underlying health conditions apart from one 91-year-old.
Twelve deaths were reported with no positive Covid-19 test result.”

82153 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1029 of 1097 🔗

PHE – ah – so that’s OK then. The ultimate authority on accurate figures. 🙂

I reckon we have a perfect illustration of the way tests are used to inflate Covid figures to include those with terminal illness.

82138 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Yawnyaman, 5, #1030 of 1097 🔗

Just looking at the claimed figures.

If 55 people have died of/with cv19 today, why were only 15 of those in hospital according to latest figures?

Surely if someone is critically ill they would be rushed to hospital, we know hospitals have capacity because since 16th March they cleared out everyone they could.

Maybe the people dying are poorly people who are being ignored by our beloved NHS.

This makes me so angry.

82154 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1031 of 1097 🔗

And 12 of those 15 in hospital with no positive test! The only one not to die with underlying condition was 91, not being callous but I would say that is an underlying condition in its own right.

82149 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Yawnyaman, 2, #1032 of 1097 🔗

From the same source, no doubt, that brought you the Magic Money Tree – the Magic Death Registration Tree.

Grown to order.

I think I’ll depend upon CEBM data for the contextual picture.

82144 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 5, #1033 of 1097 🔗

A few snippets –

my OH flew to Lithuania yesterday. No issue going maskless at LGW, nor with getting on the plane itself. Sadly, once airborne, the other passengers kicked up a fuss, and staff asked her to put a mask on to keep them quiet. She has a medical exemption.

Saw a woman in Waitrose wearing a mask that looked like something out of a sci-fi movie – big filters or similar on each cheek. Made her look like an ant. 🙂

Fewer people masked in the street today – one family with 5 masked kids did upset me a lot though. Also one or two oldies with walking frames were masked up too.

82158 ▶▶ Edward, replying to JohnB, 8, #1034 of 1097 🔗

It’s obvious, except to government idiots, that there’s no point in giving complex nuanced instructions to the general public. They just hear “mask good, no mask bad” and if they’re of an obedient or unenquiring nature they’ll put masks on themselves, their kids irrespective of age, probably dogs and cats too if they could.

82159 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Edward, 6, #1035 of 1097 🔗

The government don’t want nuanced messages – or they wouldn’t be employing platoons of Goebbels acolytes.

82160 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, #1036 of 1097 🔗

Just a theoretical thought re. variables underlying between-country differences in Covid deaths.

Perhaps intelligence levels in the population correlate inversely. 🙂

82165 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, #1037 of 1097 🔗

Funny you should say that, one of the “mask” Case-Control Studies that the Royal Society used (utterly crap study) did have a significantly lower odds ratio for infection with “Education” cf. “mask” 😉

82166 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 4, #1038 of 1097 🔗

How many mask changes were mandatory on the flight? Clearly the airline knows best having risk assessed the situation to over rule medical exemptions. They are gold standard at LGW, so how many changes were facillitated by their on it staff.

Not you John… these things piss me off how bloody stupid these authorities claim to be.

82174 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 4, #1039 of 1097 🔗

No problem Basics. 🙂 I don’t think the airline crew were bothered, until a number of passengers started moaning and their ‘passenger disturbance/riot/drunk/fighty’ training took over.

I’d pursue it, but don’t want to prejudice OH’s return flight. Hang on a sec …

82169 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, 4, #1040 of 1097 🔗

I’m actually considering requisitioning a proper battery powered respirator when I am going to fly just to prove a point of what is adequate aerosol protection and if that distresses the passengers too bad… Just can’t decide whether to go for a clinical/lab sealed faceshield with that go a full “ebola” hood for the effect…

82170 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to IMoz, #1041 of 1097 🔗

I assume the power is to provide positive pressure to keep the nasties completely out?

82171 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1042 of 1097 🔗

Indeed—positive pressure, and the filter medium is so fine you actually need power to suck the air through it 😉

When I discovered NHS procedures didn’t require negative pressure isolation for COVID-19, the case was pretty much closed for me as to the virulence!

82173 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, #1043 of 1097 🔗

Where would one acquire such kit, please, IMoz ?

82179 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, #1044 of 1097 🔗

just google for ‘hood papr’

82180 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, #1045 of 1097 🔗

Ta. You can fork out $1300 for just the hood, never mind battery, pump, etc. !


A bit much just for havin’a larf. 🙁

82182 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, #1046 of 1097 🔗

Yup, that why I used “requisition” cf. buy 😉 but that sounds a bit too much—sounds like the price of an industrial helmet (unless they jacked the prices up Stateside) I think you can buy the whole set with enough single use speares in the UK for about a grand, not that that’s much cheaper 😉

82184 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, #1047 of 1097 🔗

That was the top one – with a plastic visor !

82185 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, #1048 of 1097 🔗

Good old capitalism 😉

82172 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 9, #1049 of 1097 🔗

How could I forget …

Saw one old boy (I am in receipt of state pension) wearing a pointy mask on top of his bald suntanned head.

Very fetching !, I encouraged.

Thank you, I’m thinking of setting up as a milliner, he said. Enormous grin ….

And outside Waitrose I spotted a queue of 7 or 8 people all dutifully walking through the string-enforced queuing system. (There was no queue.).

First one to solve the maze gets a piece of cheese, I shouted, as one does.

They all did a sort of mental-doubletake, and as one dipped under the string to form a line up to the door. Worryingly, I feel I may have replaced one form of conformity with another. 🙂

82175 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1050 of 1097 🔗

Gulf War Syndrome from a 2001 Guardian Article:

The illness known as Gulf war syndrome looks likely to have been caused by an illegal vaccine “booster” given by the Ministry of Defence to protect soldiers against biological weapons, according to the results of a new series of tests.

Scientists in the United States found that symptoms of the illness were the same for service personnel who received the injections whether or not they served in the Gulf.

The common factor for the 275,000 British and US veterans who are ill appears to be a substance called squalene, allegedly used in injections to add to their potency. Such an action would have been illegal. Squalene is not licensed for use on either side of the Atlantic because of potential side effects.”


A genuine report suggesting illegal injecting of troops.

I am not knowledgeable about what the current research gives as the reasons for GWS. It is appropriate to look at the unexplained harms experienced 10-15 years after the Gulf War.

82205 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Basics, #1051 of 1097 🔗

Another opinion here:


82209 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tim Bidie, #1052 of 1097 🔗

Thanks Tim I believe the link you give addresses your hard drive in error? I cannot read PDFs to be sure. I am interested to learn more about GWS.

82238 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Basics, 1, #1053 of 1097 🔗
82245 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kate, #1054 of 1097 🔗

Squalene – was blamed in 2001 at least, and may still be for causing harm to 30% of all Gulf War veterans.

Wikipedia in 2020 claims GWS cause is unexplained. I wonder what the story was that took Squalene from public pages of blame and into trials for warp speed vaccine cooking.

Thank you kate for that info. It feels like there is much more dirt to uncover here.

82272 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1055 of 1097 🔗

To add GSK has an address in Bernard Castle. Since Bernard Castle was the setting for the notorious day trip eye test drive.

82183 Gossamer, 3, #1056 of 1097 🔗

This, from Australia, is hilarious. And heartening. And yes, heartbreaking in parts. But I’m so glad that more and more people are wise to what’s going on, and willing to speak out.


82187 Eddie, 3, #1057 of 1097 🔗

Oh heavens! My usual grocery store was just, for the first time ever, filled with more masked than full faced shoppers. Oh no, nooooooooooo! All voluntary.
I guess they must be pounding home this directive on the local MSM (I wouldn’t know, can’t watch it for a second)

82188 Hugh, replying to Hugh, 8, #1058 of 1097 🔗

I see there has been some discussion about the lack of political options. I suspect that it will be up to us to do summat if owt’s to be done. Obviously don’t oppose lockdown sceptic politicians at elections, but if there’s a by-election and all the candidates are lockdown zealots, we should go for it big time (it only costs a few thousand to stand doesn’t it?) The like’s been done before you know, I recall a council election where a big supporter of a “congestion charge” was standing and the locals were dead against it – he got trounced. And in the North East, a referendum on a “regional assembly” was opposed by a poorly funded ragtag bunch who used a giant white elephant helium balloon on the Tyne Bridge quite effectively – you don’t have to spend big bucks as long as you get people’s attention with a message that resonates. I once solved a local parking problem with strategically placed water bottles, posters on them printed off at the library (those were the days!), and a lot of time sitting out on the street explaining to people what I was doing. People mostly back off as long as you’re reasonable, and by the time the council intervened, the problem had more or less gone, at minimal cost to me, and none to tax payers.

I would suggest that a few hundred strategically placed posters around a bedwetter’s constituency during an election saying, for example, that over 100,000 children are expected to starve to death this year as a result of lockdowns, compared to the tiny number of children who have died from that bug that’s been going round, might make a few voters choke on their cornflakes, so to speak.

Over to the experts…

82192 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Hugh, 8, #1059 of 1097 🔗

Toby needs to seriously consider bringing together his concerns about erosion of Free Speech, Lockdown dictatorship and the spread of Marxist idiocy together in a crowd funded Free Citizens Party.

82195 Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, 15, #1060 of 1097 🔗

From NHS Twitter feed: “It might be slightly more uncomfortable in the warmer weather, but it’s still vital you continue to wear a face covering in shops and on public transport.”

Is the NHS trying to sign its own death warrant? When the litigation claims for hypoxia, hypercapnia and pleurisy start rolling in, things will get very interesting.

Fortunately, the comments are not very complimentary 🙂


82197 ▶▶ annie, replying to Gossamer, 15, #1061 of 1097 🔗

Vital? Rubbish.
Not content with killing thousands by neglect, the foul NHS now rules the sheeple by lies.
Vomit vomit vomit.

82196 Arkleston, replying to Arkleston, 4, #1062 of 1097 🔗

Atmospheric oxygen is the most important need humans have, even more important than food.


82199 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Arkleston, 12, #1063 of 1097 🔗

Anyone who has a rudimentary grasp of psychology will also say that socialisation is also a basic human need.

82203 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 14, #1064 of 1097 🔗

Sorry, I’ve been busy and cannot keep up with the volume of comments on this site and so my apologies if I am repeating stuff but anyway;
Yesterday village football resumed here in North Devon, lovely afternoon, around 50 spectators, including children, no face masks, plenty of cheering, who won? a big victory for sanity and common sense!
But whilst watching I was thinking; in the areas of the UK subject to these local lockdowns has there been a rise in Covid deaths or serious hopital cases? or has it all been done on test results (so called cases)?
If it is all related to test results, do we know what usually happens with colds and flu in the summertime? Maybe they spread asymptomatically during the summer and thus impart some protection for the coming winter, the much derided herd immunity.
If that is the case then you could argue that summertime lockdowns are more harmful than letting nature take its course? just a thought maybe the sun has gone to my head?

82215 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to MaxPower, 8, #1066 of 1097 🔗

That’s an excellent article by the Sunday Times, with proper reporting. Thanks for linking it Max. The virus has gone, after a month of social interaction, pubs being open, etc. has not resulted in any further hospital admissions.

82218 ▶▶▶▶ MaxPower, replying to DressageRider, 5, #1067 of 1097 🔗

Couldn’t believe it when I read it this morning – long overdue and hopefully will be the first of many

82219 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to MaxPower, 4, #1068 of 1097 🔗

Thank you for this link, pretty clear. It would appear that there is no logic to the current madhouse.

82279 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MaxPower, 2, #1069 of 1097 🔗

Wow they even talk about herd immunity being reached. I thought that was a dirty word. What’s happening?!

Has Boris read this?

82296 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1070 of 1097 🔗

I doubt he works on a weekend!

82423 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to DressageRider, #1071 of 1097 🔗

Or on a weekday.

82216 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #1072 of 1097 🔗

This article that Toby linked to yesterday covers in some detail the Leicester situation. Essentially, no deaths no increase in hospitalisations.

82214 Ned of the Hills, 9, #1073 of 1097 🔗

In the Irish Republic there have been more ‘cases” in the last week than in the whole of June.

I strongly suspect this is a case of; – “Seek and ye shall find”

98 cases were found on Friday and they locked down three counties. Mostly workers in a meat factory who were clearly tested.

174 cases yesterday. (Located where? – I don’t know as I didn’t listen to the news)

Numbers for hospital admissions come in late. But when 69 cases were identified on Thursday there were only three hospital admissions. So I suspect the great majority of cases are the result of testing.

A single death from/with Covid was registered on each of the last three days. Before then there were eleven days with only one death registered.

This testing malarky is, I fear, going to be the spur for lots of panic and lots of lockdowns. Which would not be possible to generate, at the moment for certain, if the focus was on numbers dying and hospital admissions.

82227 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Gillian, #1075 of 1097 🔗

Yes, but the sad bit is that so many sheeple take it as gospel!

82220 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 5, #1076 of 1097 🔗

And reboot “Wave 2” scare story.

Sense from MSM again that “someone” is getting worried that the country has started to see through this charade.

The government must now be panicking as soon as you have lost the “herd” then that’s it.

Ironically creating herd immunity in the process.

Oh and looks like Hancock has been thrown under the bus.

82224 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to hotrod, 3, #1077 of 1097 🔗

which bus, where? do tell!

82225 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to DressageRider, 5, #1078 of 1097 🔗

Quite – I should like to go and catch it!

82275 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to hotrod, 1, #1079 of 1097 🔗

Please can someone explain the Hancock thing. I need to know whether to crack open the chanpagne.

82294 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to A. Contrarian, #1080 of 1097 🔗

I found it further up – apparently he is being accused of incompetance in chairing the COBRA meetings.

82221 Mike Collins, 15, #1081 of 1097 🔗

Coronavirus: Redundancies rise fivefold as pandemic hits jobs

is it any wonder that the sheeple of this country struggle to understand what’s happening to them when Ben King at the BBC thinks that it’s the ‘pandemic’ making people redundant, not the lockdown strategy adopted by our bed wetting Government?

82223 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #1082 of 1097 🔗

De Tocqueville 1835:

‘In America, the majority draws a formidable circle around thought. Within these limits, the writer is free; but woe to him if he dares to go beyond them……He gives in; finally, under the daily effort, he yields and returns to silence, as though he felt remorse for having told the truth.’

‘The influence of what precedes is still felt only weakly in political society; but its harmful effects are already noticeable on the national character of the Americans. I think that the small number of outstanding men who appear today on the political stage must be attributed, above all, to the always increasing action of the despotism of the majority in the United States.’

‘There is, moreover, a great difference between doing what you do not approve or pretending to approve what you do; the one is done by a weak man, but the other belongs only to the habits of a valet.’

‘If liberty is ever lost in America, it will be necessary to lay the blame on the omnipotence of the majority that will have brought minorities to despair and will have forced them to appeal to physical force. Then you will see anarchy, but it will arrive as a consequence of despotism.’


Drawing on De Tocqueville, any new party, to succeed in this country, might comprise a loose confederation of local independent candidates.

The house of commons was at its best when comprised of those not dependent on government stipends, so considerably more independent of mind.

82613 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Tim Bidie, #1083 of 1097 🔗

That last sentence is true of so many things theses days…such as research scientists being dependent on grants or funding to do their ‘research’.


82228 James McKeon, 4, #1084 of 1097 🔗

https://aip.asn.au/2020/06/open-up-our-country-sign-the-open-letter/ .

This is a link for any Australians who wish to sign an open letter to our heads of Australian governments to reopen the economy and take a different approach to COVID. The letter has been propagated by The Australian Institute for Progress.

James McKeon.

82230 Tyneside Tigress, 16, #1085 of 1097 🔗

Houston, we have a problem:


Solution: let’s just keep banging away at the ‘young people, it’s you who are killing the grannies’, and they will be shamed into getting the untried, untested vaccine and risk their lives, not just their freedoms, to save granny!

On that front, I do hope the Preston city council lead and deputy lead have been adhering to lockdown and saving their mothers. They are a disgrace and should be ashamed of themselves. As should anyone who is seeking to blame young people for deaths of the elderly, who have been murdered in the main by our wonderful NHS. Grandad, by the way, is likely to be among the 16,000 or more who have died from other causes in being denied treatment (heart attacks, strokes, various cancers).

82231 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #1086 of 1097 🔗

240 Belgians vs. Bill Gates, Neil Ferguson and the Belgian state


Apologies if already mentioned on LS this court case is news to me. Good luck to them.

82240 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Basics, 4, #1087 of 1097 🔗

Criminal as well as civil claims.

82456 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Basics, #1088 of 1097 🔗

But notice this snide bit of reporting in the article. They just couldn’t resist it, could they?

‘Verstraeten, who claimed he had contracted Covid-19 himself, repeatedly compared the coronavirus to the flu, and brushed off the high death rates of the ongoing pandemic as comparable to those of a “severe flu” saying it was “complete nonsense” to say that the novel coronavirus was “killer virus.””

82234 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #1089 of 1097 🔗

Nicked from Going Postal…thanks to Mrs Raft…
Hargreaves Lansdown issues calm but cautioning briefing for anyone who thinks vaccines are an automatic ticket to riches.
“But the reality is that even expert virologists can’t predict who’s going to come out on top. Drug and vaccine development is difficult, time consuming and costly. A number of complex and unpredictable stages makes the costs and likelihood of failure high – especially when it’s being developed at break neck speed.
Even once they’ve been developed, vaccines require extensive testing to make sure they’re safe – particularly for a vaccine which could end up being given to billions of people in a relatively short space of time.”

82273 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #1090 of 1097 🔗

They’ve got round that one though, by simply deciding to miss out the extensive testing part. Who needs safety? Other than from The Virus of course.

82236 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1091 of 1097 🔗

Oxford scientists are having a public spat over whether or not to artificially infect human subjects with the virus for vaccine testing purposes.

No need to be awed by these stuffed lab coats, their profession is a laughing stock. Think stones and beatles or oasis and blur. It’s at that level of desperation now they need false passions to produce boring stories that are a diversion from the actual meat and potatos of the thing.

Inside at least one national rag today.

82295 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, 1, #1092 of 1097 🔗

I think a certain M. Hancock should be first in line. Or maybe B. Gates?

82610 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, #1093 of 1097 🔗

Has the virus actually been isolated and regrown in the laboratory? Not as far as I’m aware.


82287 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #1094 of 1097 🔗

Here’s a good piss-take of the culture of fear and safetyism the pandemic has unleashed:


82445 Margaret, 1, #1096 of 1097 🔗


” All my happiest holiday memories are of holiday vacations here in the UK, bucket-and-spade jobs or whatever, and I thoroughly, thoroughly recommend it, and I’m sure that people will have a great time over the summer”

He forgot to add, “ But whatever you do, don’t go to the beaches”

82455 Nobody2020, #1097 of 1097 🔗

**Sunday Edition is available now**


194 users made 1,065 comments today.

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