2020-08-09

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/08/09/latest-news-98/
Published2020-08-09T07:42:21
Last updated2020-08-10T09:00:50
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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82233 steve, replying to steve, 17, #1 of 1342 🔗

go to google and put in three random digits followed by ‘new cases’ and see what comes up.

Repeat this with ANY different three digit number.

See what happens each time. What are the odds! Every random three digit number returns gives a series of “news articles” with the exact same number of cases 🧐

82266 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to steve, 6, #2 of 1342 🔗

Hahaha! If I type in 999 it comes up with:

Does Googling Any 3-Digit Number Followed by ‘New Cases’ Reveal COVID-19 Conspiracy?
Also : 1 Jul 2020 – Philippines confirms 999 new coronavirus infections

If I had time, I’d do this for numbers 1-999, just to see if I can find a number that doesn’t work (how many variations are there? I am a bear of little brain when it comes to mathematics).

82649 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #3 of 1342 🔗

There are 999 variations in the in the numbers 1 to 999.

82760 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Rowan, #4 of 1342 🔗

Ha! Thanks Rowan. Of course there are. Told you I’m no good at maths…

82297 ▶▶ wendy, replying to steve, 4, #5 of 1342 🔗

It is very odd isn’t it!

82308 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to wendy, 4, #6 of 1342 🔗

The fact checking article seems to make sense of it mathematically:

“We have not typed each of the 900 three-digit numbers (100-999) into Google followed by “new cases,” …

… If each of the 50 states [US states] issued daily reports about COVID-19 cases for 200 days, that would mean 10,000 reports could contain a three-digit number of COVID-19 cases. There are approximately 19,500 municipal governments in the United States. If every one of those governments reported a daily rise in cases over this 200 days, that’s an additional 3,900,000 reports that could contain a three-digit number of COVID-19 cases. If you factor in local and national newspapers and websites (we’ll use 13,000, the number of daily newspapers in circulation in 2014; the actual number is likely much higher due to an unknown number of online news websites), that’s an additional 2,600,000 reports about COVID-19. “

82692 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mr Dee, -5, #7 of 1342 🔗

This fact checker is snopes.. I have not looked at Snopes for a long time but i recall from way back that it was fairly reliable at debunking myths and other conspiracy claims

82789 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, 7, #8 of 1342 🔗

Snopes is an establishment outlet, c.f. wikipedia.

83076 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 3, #9 of 1342 🔗

It’s also literally two people sat in their front room (Husband and wife team) — from which they attack “trolls in their basements”
Maybe they’ve hired someone to help them now 😂

83124 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Farinances, 1, #10 of 1342 🔗

And who funds them so handsomely one wonders, George…?

94972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Shelby, replying to Farinances, #11 of 1342 🔗

There actually divorced he was screwing around with someone he met on a pron site. Lol they have been charged as well. If you find the plandemic part 2 movie they talk about those 2 idiots. Lol

83049 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to mjr, #12 of 1342 🔗

Thanks for that.

83136 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to mjr, 1, #13 of 1342 🔗

… This absolutely astounded me. Here was the one of the world’s most respected fact checking organizations, soon to be an ultimate arbitrator of “truth” on Facebook, saying that it cannot respond to a fact checking request because of a secrecy agreement.

In short, when someone attempted to fact check the fact checker, the response was the equivalent of “it’s secret”…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-daily-mail-snopes-story-and-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/

82302 ▶▶ Tangelo, replying to steve, 4, #14 of 1342 🔗

Yeah 666 new cases in Spain on the 14th July (and quite a lot of other locations around the world too).

82602 ▶▶▶ Mik dale, replying to Tangelo, 3, #15 of 1342 🔗

That’s Beastly.

82715 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tangelo, 3, #16 of 1342 🔗

The Devil’s in the Details there.

82792 ▶▶ Adam, replying to steve, 1, #17 of 1342 🔗

I came across this a few weeks ago, and the mathematical problem that underlies this is called the coupon collectors problem. If you do the maths of it, given the probably hundreds of thousands of similar articles that have been written, it is actually not all that surprising that there is at least one article with xxx number of cases.

82832 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to steve, 2, #18 of 1342 🔗

I heard if you go to Google and type in Google that it breaks the internet!

82239 ▶▶ IanE, replying to HawkAnalyst, #20 of 1342 🔗

We could wake up in a cold sweat and vow never to fall asleep again!

Paywalled unfortunately – but sounds like a good Quentin Letts article!

82241 ▶▶ anon, replying to HawkAnalyst, #21 of 1342 🔗

I’ve literally just woken up from a disturbing dream.

having read your comment after Steve’s I’m a little dizzy to say the least

82303 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #22 of 1342 🔗

I’ve had one Covid nightmare. Settling down in the barbers chair as he puts the plastic bib thing on me I open my eyes to see The Dentist coming at me with a B&Q type power drill.
I screamed “I only came for a haircut !” and then woke up.

82498 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to karenovirus, #23 of 1342 🔗

I just had a crazy dream last night where alien craft were going about laying waste to my home town, knocking down high rises and pulverising everything in sight. On the ground I had to confront one of the bast***s and killed it with my bare hands.

I woke up and thought of face masks for some reason. That I find quite disturbing!

82790 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Eddie, #24 of 1342 🔗

Soft and squidgy, or crunchy and hard ?

82710 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to HawkAnalyst, #25 of 1342 🔗

If only

82242 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 8, #26 of 1342 🔗

The government know it’s all over, prison visits resume next week.
Staff are more worried about visitor born drugs from which prisons have been Covid free.

82389 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 5, #27 of 1342 🔗

So I could visit a convict but, because I’m in a mocked-down area, I can’t visit a member of my family?

82415 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #28 of 1342 🔗

Seems that way Cheezilla though Social Distancing is always d’rigour with prison visits, unless you’re delivering drugs to y’ homies.

83564 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to karenovirus, #29 of 1342 🔗

Yeah, I mean… you pretty much just explained why it makes sense.

82243 davews, replying to davews, 28, #30 of 1342 🔗

I continue to be confused on all this track and trace rubbish. As somebody living alone I can still safely say that since the start of lockdown I have never been within 1m of anybody at all for 15 minutes or more and rarely within 2m. That includes several pub meals and quite a few trips on trains and the tube. I could name none of the people I have been near, complete strangers including countless ones in Tesco. If I advertently had left my details at one of the pubs I visited and got a call from the T&T team (which I would probably ignore as an unrecognised number) and they told me to self-isolate I would treat that as an unreasonable request on the basis that even if I had been in the same pub as that anonymous person the chances of me picking up the virus from them is practically zero. Does it do anything to reduce the spread of the virus, practically zilch.

82246 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to davews, 18, #31 of 1342 🔗

I’ve been within two metres of about 4,000 people since lockdown (enclosed), still here to tell the tale

82270 ▶▶▶ Pennyb, replying to karenovirus, 15, #32 of 1342 🔗

Likewise karenovirus. Living my life as normal and not even a sniffle!

82499 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Pennyb, 5, #33 of 1342 🔗

Same here! Couldn’t even stop biting my finger nails all this time. I should have caught it ages ago.

82667 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Eddie, 6, #34 of 1342 🔗

Covid-19 has always been a Bill Gates scam and is nothing more than influenza rebranded. The real danger will be Bill’s depopulating vaccines.

82290 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to karenovirus, 4, #35 of 1342 🔗

Note that I said ‘for 15 minutes’ which was the original definition of social distancing and that used by the now failed mobile phone apps. That limits it to my train journeys into London and pub lunches (both around an hour) and the queues outside Tesco when they used to have them. It gets even more bizarre when you take some of the pubs into account which have separate indoor and outdoor eating areas – I am very unlikely to have caught it from somebody sitting outside when I am inside, but I don’t expect the pub T&T takes that into account.

82320 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to davews, 2, #36 of 1342 🔗

I take your point davews, my contacts would be between 5 – 30 minutes in enclosed spaces.
Incidentally I have two none infectionsious co-morbidities for which I did not get a letter from my GP telling me to shield for three months.
Must be wanting to get rid of me though I only trouble them once or twice a year.

82679 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to davews, 5, #37 of 1342 🔗

You’re very unlikely to catch it wherever you are. It has packed and left, just like influenza does every spring, what a coincidence. A positive PCR test means nothing at all, but that obviously suits the bunch of criminals, that are masquerading as a government.

82276 ▶▶ guy153, replying to davews, 13, #38 of 1342 🔗

Well also as the person you were supposedly within 2m of who tested positive, if asymptomatic, has about a 6.5% chance of actually being infected with SARS2, and a very low chance of infecting anyone else with it.

If she was symptomatic, the chances of her having Covid having tested positive are much higher– about 94%. But if she was symptomatic you would have noticed. And she probably wouldn’t have gone to the pub.

The whole T&T is a complete charade, total political theatre, nothing more.

82282 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to guy153, 6, #39 of 1342 🔗

Yes, theatre. It’s a fashionable way to pretend you can control the virus while not wrecking the economy, but I think the numbers you’d need to test daily to properly suppress would need to be in the millions, and we’re nowhere near that kind of capability. By the time you’d ramped it up, you’d have herd immunity.

People point at Germany and South Korea’s “good” outcomes as evidence of TTT working, but the case for that seems weak to me.

82284 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Julian, 5, #40 of 1342 🔗

How can it work when antibody studies have repeatedly shown that for every known case there are 5-10 cases that go undiagnosed?

82347 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Sally, 6, #41 of 1342 🔗

You’d have to test almost everyone, daily, forever

82689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Julian, 5, #42 of 1342 🔗

Several times a day, but it will all stop as Bill Gates rides to the rescue with his world saving and global depopulating vaccine. I can hardly wait.

82784 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Rowan, 3, #43 of 1342 🔗

While I share your dislike of Gates and seriously question his motives. What exactly do you mean by de populating vaccines? I come on here for rational discussion not more fevered hysteria. How exactly will Gates use this vaccine to de populate? Where is your evidence? Be sensible.

83054 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, 1, #45 of 1342 🔗

Thank you. Yes, Kennedy is a master of the subject and the corrupt pro-vaxxers absolutely hate him for exposing their almighty scam.

82796 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cruella, 5, #46 of 1342 🔗

The Gates philosophy is to reduce the family size of families in “the third world”, their logic is that people now have lots of children to compensate for the ones that die from disease, if they pay for vaccinations and “health care” then they will not need to have lots of children, just one or two. This is their official stance, and they have a clear goal to reduce the world’s population by 15-20%.

 Some people say that the vaccine will have stuff in it that can reduce fertility in males and females and even that there is a vaccine for a specific gender, one for men and another for females.

83058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Two-Six, 1, #47 of 1342 🔗

Gates’s polio vaccine has left 496,000 Indian children with a measure of disability and it has killed many others. Eighty percent of all polio cases now come from the vaccine that Gates has been pushing on the third world.

83094 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Two-Six, 1, #48 of 1342 🔗

I’m well aware that he is one of many powerful and influential eugencists operating in the world. I think I have said as much on this feed before. I think many ‘ordinary’ people would agree that the world is overpopulated and would support the reduction of the worlds population especially in the third world. Oddly they’re often the same people that seem so terrified of this virus and dying in general. Obviously they want there to be less people, just not them! I always thought these viruses where nature’s way of correcting the balance. Sadly our society has become perverse about death, namely to stay alive is more important than to live and die well. I just question the notion that this vaccine is going to be used to de populate. Where have you been the last 50 years, we’re doing a pretty good job of that without secret killer vaccines! Why do you think mass migration is necessary?

83052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cruella, 2, #49 of 1342 🔗

Bill Gates was brought up as a eugenicist and has made no secret of the fact that he believes the world to be massively overpopulated. Now why would he want a vaccine that actually saved lives?

82685 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sally, 3, #50 of 1342 🔗

Cases mean nothing at all. The RT-PCR test is totally unfit for purpose. It will always throw up false positives and on that basis Covid-19 can never go away, which seems to be the plan, until the vaccine.

82305 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Julian, 6, #51 of 1342 🔗

Yes because if you’re trying to find all the asymptomatic cases how do you do that? There are about 30,000 of them, but distributed all over the place. You would basically have to test everyone.

If you’re only trying to find symptomatic cases then what’s the point? Although now only about 10% of people with cough/cold/fever etc. actually have Covid (and 90% other viruses) who cares? Anyone who’s ill can stay out of trouble and tell their friends. It doesn’t really matter what virus it is.

It can work if you’re tracking one or two small outbreaks in a country that’s genuinely unexposed like South Korea because then you basically know when to start. So as you say the idea is to pretend we’re South Korea and we’re in control. But it’s a complete joke.

82400 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to guy153, 4, #52 of 1342 🔗

That’s why Tweedledone and Tweedlevee sensibly advocated herd immunity from the beginning. They knew we’d never have T&T capacity.
They even encouraged it by allowing the football matches and Cheltenham to proceed.
They were certainly “got at” – from several sides it would seem!

82690 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to guy153, 1, #53 of 1342 🔗

Testing for an illness that doesn’t exist is the real joke.

82300 ▶▶ wendy, replying to davews, 19, #54 of 1342 🔗

And the new local lockdowns reinforce that to pick up an infection you need close contact, likely domestic. Picking up any sort of infection in a shop, public transport or gallery is almost impossible. Which makes me so angry Boris didn’t have the balls to stand up to this nonsense!!! Time for business leaders to speak out – they are the only people who are going to get this turned around!

82307 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to wendy, 26, #55 of 1342 🔗

Boris was instrumental in creating and perpetuating this nonsense, at least in the UK

He has shown not a shred of interest in standing up to anything

82707 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to wendy, 4, #56 of 1342 🔗

If you think back to the ash cloud and the suspension of all aviation, it took Willie Walsh of BA to ignore the government and he sent 13 long haul flights into Heathrow to prove it was safe to fly.
The government had to back down.
I think this is different though and I think there are deeper forces at work and that approach won’t work

82332 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to davews, 11, #57 of 1342 🔗

The 2 meter social distancing guidance was brought in exclusively to pave the way for bluetooth based social distancing apps. These apps are a key demand of the global cabal that is driving this Corona Circus, the health passport. Big data gets is way and piles of cash. We loose our freedom and all our rights. Bastards.

82361 ▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Two-Six, 6, #58 of 1342 🔗

I have had a Nokia tiny mobile phone since about 2009 (not even had a new battery in it) on which the text has become hard for me to see, necessitating putting on my glasses every time someone texts me (rare fortunately). As my husband has recently upgraded his smartphone (must be at least the 3rd time) I was going to have his old one simply because it would be easier for me to see the text. I had no intention of having awful things like Wattsapp on it as then people would be contacting me much too often. However…… I am now quietly forgetting about the smartphone (it’s a pfaff sorting it out for me to use anyway) as I am thinking that having one might be the beginning of a slippery slope to being tracked and traced and goodness knows what.

82419 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #59 of 1342 🔗

Try a Doro 2404. I have one of these, big buttons, large text.

82422 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 4, #60 of 1342 🔗

I’ve still got, and use, my old Nokia stupid phone, much easier to text, phone and keep track of things, costs next to nothing.

82662 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to davews, 1, #61 of 1342 🔗

Track and trace is simply a way of bringing in a more aggressive police state. Imagine a dawn raid to collect someone the authorities don’t like. Whisked away and likely not seen again if you don’t conform.

82244 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 14, #62 of 1342 🔗

Appalling misrepresentation of Tegnell’s words here

The Guardian: Sweden’s Covid expert warns UK: opening and closing schools would be disastrous.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/09/swedens-covid-expert-warns-uk-opening-and-closing-schools-would-be-disastrous

82258 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Tom Blackburn, 40, #63 of 1342 🔗

Shameful. The media systematically misrepresent what Tegnell says.

A few months ago the headlines were that he admitted Sweden’s strategy was a mistake and should have done more what other countries have done. What he actually said was simply that they had made mistakes, particularly not dealing with nursing homes quickly enough, but remained confident that their strategy was the right long term approach.

The “problem” with Tegnell is that he is thoughtful, transparent and open to self-criticism. The way he is systematically misrepresented shows how disgusting the media is and how impossible they make it to have honest, transparent public figures who don’t measure every word.

82897 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #64 of 1342 🔗

The Grauniad is heavily funded by the Bill Gates Foundation. Absolutely everything they publish about this crisis reflects, and is tainted by, that simple fact. The rag is a wholly bought-and-paid-for propaganda arm of the vaccine industry.

83062 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Gracie Knoll, #65 of 1342 🔗

Yes, the Guardian is indeed a Gates mouthpiece, and so is the BBC which has also taken the Gates shilling.

82247 stewart, replying to stewart, 19, #66 of 1342 🔗

I’m quite sure most teachers are quite happy for schools to reopen. It’s just a vocal few that claim to be speaking on behalf of all of them that are resisting.

As is too often the case, the vocal, belligerent minority, who claim to speak for everyone, get a disproportionate amount of attention and give a completely distorted view of reality.

82310 ▶▶ annie, replying to stewart, 5, #67 of 1342 🔗

Very probably you’re right.
Again and again I observe that the vast majority of people behave as old-normally as they possibly can.

82324 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 1, #68 of 1342 🔗

They got a good kicking on the Daily Mail comments in Toby’s roundup link.

82374 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to karenovirus, 2, #69 of 1342 🔗

Yeh – but getting a kicking from the Bile is a mark of sanity and intelligence 🙂

82248 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 13, #70 of 1342 🔗

Reposting this as the new thread now up and running.

Houston, we have a problem:
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-only-half-of-britons-say-they-would-get-a-vaccine-poll-reveals-12045605

Solution: let’s just keep banging away at the ‘young people, it’s you who are killing the grannies’, and they will be shamed into getting the untried, untested vaccine and risk their lives, not just their freedoms, to save granny!

On that front, I do hope the Preston city council lead and deputy lead have been adhering to lockdown and saving their mothers. They are a disgrace and should be ashamed of themselves. As should anyone who is seeking to blame young people for deaths of the elderly, who have been murdered in the main by our wonderful NHS. Grandad, by the way, is likely to be among the 16,000 or more who have died from other causes in being denied treatment (heart attacks, strokes, various cancers).

Update on the Oxford vaccine. Suggestions of a dispute between Sarah Gilbert and Adrian Hill at The Jenner. The wheels are starting to come off?

82256 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #71 of 1342 🔗

Any links to what the dispute is, please?

82327 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to p02099003, 23, #73 of 1342 🔗

I was speaking to a nurse, who agreed that rushing through mass vaccinations would be very dangerous, as it could be years before any damaging effects were seen. She said she would not want to be vaccinated with such a dodgy vaccine herself, but feared she would lose her job if one were on offer and she refused. Surely doctors and nurses should be saying very loudly that if “safety” is what the population want a rushed vaccine is not going to deliver it, and refuse to be instrumental in putting either their own or other people’s health at risk. “First do no harm.”

82333 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gillian Swanson, 14, #74 of 1342 🔗

Medical staff routinely refuse annual flu jabs despite coming under pressure to do so.

82363 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to karenovirus, 13, #75 of 1342 🔗

Flu has not been sold as a “killer virus”. This time it may well be different. My friend certainly thinks so. After all, this particular vaccine is being sold as the solution to all our problems. I am seventy-seven. I have ignored the yearly invitations to be vaccinated against flu, and my non-immunised state has not prevented me from taking part in normal life. I have a feeling it won’t be so easy if it’s a Covid vaccine that’s on offer. Non-compliance will probably be punished by restrictions on movement and on participation in normal life.

82364 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Gillian Swanson, 7, #76 of 1342 🔗

A “new” virus was a good trojan horse – no-one would have bought this madness for flu. But they may do now.

82488 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Julian, 13, #77 of 1342 🔗

Just drafted letter to GP:

Dear Dr ***

Coronavirus vaccines

It is alarming that virtually untested vaccines are being rushed through in a panicked attempt to stamp out Covid-19, with the government ordering millions of doses from more than one candidate laboratory even before their products have been fully tested. As you know, vaccines cannot be considered safe until they have been tested repeatedly and over long periods of time. Even with the normal period of testing, tragedies occur – as, indeed, they do with other drugs mistakenly licensed as safe by the MHRA. It therefore seems rash in the extreme for the government to be proposing mass vaccination of the population with something that cannot be guaranteed free of serious long-term side effects, or even capable of significant protection against the virus.  To date, no attempts to produce vaccines for a coronavirus have been successful, and even the flu shot now regularly administered is, I understand, at most 60 per cent effective.

It is particularly surprising that the vaccine is being presented as the only way out of repeated whack-a-mole lockdowns at a time when, as stated by Dr John Lee, the most common symptoms of those testing positive for Covid-19 appear to be “no symptoms at all”.  When this diminishing virulence is balanced against the potential dangers of the proposed cure, it seems as if we may well be about to plunge into yet another massive over-reaction.

We safety-seeking people of the UK can only hope that our doctors and nurses insist on observing the precautionary principle, and that they will refuse to administer the rather dodgy vaccine which seems likely to be mandated in the near future. Please join with your fellow medical professionals in calling the government’s bluff, should they attempt to force your hands.

Yours sincerely,

82883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to Gillian Swanson, 1, #78 of 1342 🔗

May I copy and paste this wonderful rendition and summary of the current madness? In hope to spread a message…

82438 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gillian Swanson, 4, #79 of 1342 🔗

I have two ‘flu dangerous’ co-morbidities Gillian; self induced (smoking) COPD and asthmar (LOTF lol), ghastly when a child and I really Did Not want to die of Coronovirus19 induced asthma attack as foretold by the government and press.
I am happy to take my chances with self immunity conferred by frequent and full on contact with the general population.

82478 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to karenovirus, 1, #80 of 1342 🔗

So am I – and have been, since the start of the hysteria. I just hope I’m not going to be faced with travel restrictions, etc.once a vaccine is on offer …

83073 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Gillian Swanson, #81 of 1342 🔗

Travel restrictions will be nothing as compared to what the vaccine is intended to do. If enough people say no to Gates’s depopulating vaccine, they will be unable to proceed with silly restrictions. Now is the time to firmly say no and of course that includes masks. Throw them away.

82509 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Gillian Swanson, 4, #82 of 1342 🔗

This is where we must draw the line and put up a serious fight.It’s my final line in the sand for sure

83078 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Eddie, #83 of 1342 🔗

The time to fight is right now before they try to enforce their depopulating vaccine. This means no more masks. Refuse to wear them and see what happens, nothing in my case. This is a fight for our lives both metaphorically and literally.

82798 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gillian Swanson, #84 of 1342 🔗

Still, musn’t grumble …

82368 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Gillian Swanson, 6, #85 of 1342 🔗

rushing through mass vaccinations would be very dangerous”

This is patently the case. You have to be totally brainwashed or terminally dim (or both) not to understand this, and the necessity of proper double-blind (preferably) RC trialling – which, by definition takes time.

Of course – that leads you to an obvious fact : that vaccines cannot be a solution to Covid-19 – even if there were to be an on-going problem. (As opposed to the current manufactured scare)

Kerrrchingg!!!

82441 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 4, #86 of 1342 🔗

And surely, testing on young adults who are normally asymptomatic with CV19 can’t prove whether the vaccine mitigates the symptoms?
They would have to test on some old folks to prove effectiveness.

Hmmm. Methinks the youngsters will “prove” the vaccine is a roaring success against covid – though the side-effects will probably be overlooked, as they have been with statins and similar cash cows.

83092 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, #87 of 1342 🔗

Even testing vaccines on fit healthy young adults has produced some short term problems and hospitalisations.

The real danger though, will be the longer term effects on ordinary people and this aspect is not part of the trials. In any event, why are we supposed to believe that utterly corrupt Big Pharma, is honest enough to carry out its own trials and all the more so, as there is no risk whatsoever to vaccine suppliers. Governments in the UK have already agreed to fund all claims against Covid-19 vaccine manufacturing companies.

You couldn’t make this stuff up, it’s simply a bloody shambles.

82801 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 2, #88 of 1342 🔗

A cynic writes –

You have to be totally brainwashed or terminally dim (or both) to believe proper double-blind RC trialling takes place for other vaccines.

83109 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, #89 of 1342 🔗

There is, as you say, no proper double blind testing of vaccines and they are never tested against a true placebo.

To make things even cushier for the vaccine makers, governments will carry the costs of all claims made against them for the harm their vaccines will cause. Who wouldn’t be a featherbedded manufacturer of vaccines on those easy terms?

83182 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to JohnB, #90 of 1342 🔗

I think you’re right since I can’t imagine they test them against a control group who have never had any vaccines even if they could find enough unvaccinated people.

83082 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, #91 of 1342 🔗

The vaccine was always meant to be very dangerous, that is what the whole Covid-19 fiasco is all about.

82329 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to p02099003, 1, #92 of 1342 🔗

Thanks, you beat me to it!

82418 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to p02099003, 6, #93 of 1342 🔗

Sources say trials of the vaccine – codenamed ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 – found two-thirds of recipients developed headaches and a fifth became feverish.

I’d rather risk covid, thanks very much.

The enemy may be invisible but for Seán McPartlin, volunteering to take part in the Oxford vaccine trial is ‘like going to war’.
Despite the potential risks, the 22-year-old Oriel College student, pictured, said: ‘When soldiers, often no older than boys, go to war, they accept death from the moment their boots touch foreign soil.
‘They accept it because they know what they are doing is just and because it has to be done for the safety of their loved ones back at home. But while many wars are often unjust and fought for the wrong reasons, the same cannot be said for Covid.

Quick, grab the sick bucket!!!!!

82799 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #94 of 1342 🔗

Yup, the “going to war” is a very apt quote given the picture in today’s post :-))

Would it be this Seán https://uk.gofundme.com/f/get-sean-to-oxford ?

82257 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #95 of 1342 🔗

I thought the UK government and everybody involved with the UK government killed grannies, grandads, aunts, uncles, mother’s, fathers, brothers, sisters, friends

82311 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 6, #96 of 1342 🔗

No, that’s us wicked unbelievers.

82446 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to stefarm, 3, #97 of 1342 🔗

Indeed they turned into mass murderers and are instrumental in child abuse going through the roof. They are also hellbent in destroying the economy with untold misery to come.

82277 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 13, #98 of 1342 🔗

I urge everyone to write to their MP, asking them to rule out voting for any measure that would make a coronavirus vaccine complusory. Mine refused. I think we need to get this information out to the public. If I had millions I would fund a video showing people – adults and children – being held down by goons while a “doctor” injects them. People think it couldn’t happen here – but if that’s the case, why would my MP refuse to condemn it now?

82306 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, #99 of 1342 🔗

Agree. Did you see this too – likely linked, and also worrying – a Trojan horse entry?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/09/cross-party-coalition-seeks-revamp-legislation-crack-fake-cancer/

Under the guise of stopping fake cancer treatments, we could utilise this reasonable excuse to stop claims that the vaccine is dangerous etc.

82343 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #100 of 1342 🔗

I would fully expect the government and their wicked allies to resort to every trick in the book if they sense they may start losing the argument

82802 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, #101 of 1342 🔗

How would that be different to the current state of play, Julian ?

82396 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #102 of 1342 🔗

Can’t read this because of the pay-wall. How does the vaccine link in ? The policy could be multi-purpose, but (off topic) the pharmaceuticals are very keen to stop cheap, successful treatments for cancer cutting in on their huge profits from chemo, and they lump respectable treatments in with quackery. Two people are currently in prison in France for wickedly curing cancer patients, without side effects, and without killing any of them – see https://in-this-together.com/gcmaf/ . You even have to word things very carefully if you try a natural treatment – https://cancer-acts.com/our-story/ . Nobody is allowed to cure cancer, except by the orthodox (and extremely lucrative) methods.

82425 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #103 of 1342 🔗

This government is at war with its own people – except most of the people haven’t realised it yet.

82442 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #104 of 1342 🔗

Agreed but what is their purpose ? What is that old saw about eliminating all the impossible and what is left must be the answer ? Selling us to The Aliens ?

82548 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to karenovirus, 2, #105 of 1342 🔗

Or to technocracy ? Recently found this website: https://www.technocracy.news/

82691 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, #106 of 1342 🔗

No just the Americans

82335 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Julian, 2, #107 of 1342 🔗

forced medication

who is your mp?

82339 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to anon, #108 of 1342 🔗

Julie Marson

82337 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, 10, #109 of 1342 🔗

They won’t make it compulsory you just won’t be able to fly without a Vaccine Certificate, or work in a public facing job, take driving lessons, put your child in school, eat in a public place, get medical attention . . .

82342 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to karenovirus, 9, #110 of 1342 🔗

That’s the most likely scenario – de facto compulsory

82413 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Julian, 6, #111 of 1342 🔗

If the percentage of refusers is high enough, the country won’t be able to run without us and they’ll be obliged to drop it.

82428 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Bugle, 8, #112 of 1342 🔗

I used to work for a CFS/ME support Group. We knew that hepatitis B vaccine caused a really nasty form of ME. Many teachers and health workers were affected as they were asked to take this vaccine as a condition of employment. Dr Charles Shepherd of the ME Association Charity alerted the Dept of Health in 1996 and tried to get vaccine damage compensation for the victims. No recognition of this occurred and the “Yuppie Flu” campaign was intensified in the media.
If you are vaccine injured you have to prove that the vaccine caused your injury. How can you do this when our government will not release funding to do this research?

82550 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Kate, 1, #113 of 1342 🔗

Do you know how much of a delay there can be in between vaccination and side-effects happening, Kate ?

82757 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Gillian Swanson, #114 of 1342 🔗

Hi Gillian, This is not known, however the best research suggests that ill effects can show up several years after vaccination. The best research was done in France, by Gherardi and Authier. They called the condition macrophagic myofasciitis. In short, the aluminium adjuvant is walled off in the muscle but travels over time through the body inside white blood cells, eventually accumulating in the brain, where it causes fatigue, neurological symptoms and pain. This research started in 1998 and continued until about 2017. It has been shut down despite objections from the researchers and despite the quality of the research and gravity of the implications of this discovery. Gherardi and Authier found that a third of their chronic fatigue patients had MMF – a vaccine adjuvant caused disease.They diagnosed this with a muscle biopsy in the arm. If you search you can find many papers of theirs, here is a link to one.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4246686/

82450 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bugle, #115 of 1342 🔗

They will just make so many restrictions that most of us have to accept it for whatever one affects us most, just a few at a time, like resident parking permits (o/t, sorry).

82694 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bugle, 3, #116 of 1342 🔗

The mask edict is probably a test to see if we comply.

82348 ▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Julian, 5, #117 of 1342 🔗

Might be better to lobby GPs rather than MPs. They must know perfectly well that a vaccine that hasn’t been tested long-term is not safe. They should refuse to be complicit in administering it.

82350 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Gillian Swanson, 1, #118 of 1342 🔗

That’s a super idea. Thanks! I will write to my surgery.

82365 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Julian, #119 of 1342 🔗

Me too. I’ve given up on my MP. He was deputy chief whip in the Blair government.

82411 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Gillian Swanson, 2, #120 of 1342 🔗

My MP used to Alan Hazlehurst. He got caught up in the expenses scandal, claiming for gardening. But if you wrote to him, you got a proper signed letter back. I have contacted my current MP twice: no response.

82477 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay, replying to Bugle, 1, #121 of 1342 🔗

My understanding is that if you write a ‘proper’ (snail mail) letter your MP is obliged to respond. Apparently so few people do write to their MP that around nine people in a month writing about the same issue is seen as an overwhelming concern….if it’s done by ‘proper’ letter it’s probably considered an immediate and urgent concern and will be raised in parliament 🙂

82904 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to Gillian Swanson, #122 of 1342 🔗

I contacted my MP the day after lockdown asking to clarify my position in law: I was asked about ‘is it business critical vs nation critical’ but ‘I’m sure you’re doing everything possible to ensure….’
Confirmed to me that spoiling the ballot at the last elections was politically critical!

82454 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, 1, #123 of 1342 🔗

My GP Surgery sent me a text advising that the Winter Flu Jab would be in the XXXX Business Centre, didn’t say it was actually the Cattle Market, just sayin’.

82395 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Gillian Swanson, 2, #124 of 1342 🔗

They are broken reeds. But…
Can you sue a broken reed?

82355 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Julian, 2, #125 of 1342 🔗

Going by the last six months it will be done by Boris decree and MPs won’t be involved in the process.

82330 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #126 of 1342 🔗

BBC R4 9am News was reporting 16% Vaccine Sceptics because Conspiracy Theories.

82336 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 6, #127 of 1342 🔗

People who listen to the BBC are conspiracy theorists in the truest sense of the term.

82344 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Two-Six, #128 of 1342 🔗

Ha ha!

82431 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Two-Six, #129 of 1342 🔗

Have you seen this on the BBC website ?

How they envision our dystopian Covid future
https://www.bbc.com/news/resources/idt-dc2d6e2d-3ab4-42de-8d03-bb7eda5fff8e

82444 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nat, 4, #130 of 1342 🔗

UK Column ripped this to shreds on Friday.
The beeb seems very happy with its dystopian predictions.

82460 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 1, #131 of 1342 🔗

Yeah, but I persist in the interest of fellow Lockdown Sceptics since I believe I maybe immune.

82555 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #132 of 1342 🔗

Which is why all these insane measures must continue and even intensify. Basically, life must be made as miserable as possible for the population right up until the vaccine arrives and they can then hold out the carrot of everyone being allowed to get back to normal.

82250 Jonathan Smith, replying to Jonathan Smith, 4, #133 of 1342 🔗

The commentary on dating apps was interesting given that some apps are promoting the lockdown and warning people not to meet. Thus a culture of judgement builds and ways to report miscreants are established. Some apps are suspending profiles or issuing bans for breaches of social distancing rules.

82317 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jonathan Smith, 6, #134 of 1342 🔗

WLTM Lady who likes PPE and social distancing. Oooh year…..face nappies and gloves…..so sexy.

82357 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Two-Six, 3, #135 of 1342 🔗

Don’t joke… our bloody kids are going to develop these fetish’s by the truckload

82449 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, #136 of 1342 🔗

Look, my plastic gloves are PINK….Droooollll

82616 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Two-Six, #137 of 1342 🔗

Well, there was someone on here the other day who said she thought the black masks were sexy. (I’d said I thought they looked sinister.)

83026 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hoppity, #138 of 1342 🔗

That was me but I also said ‘… in a nazi/antifa kind of way’.
Would have thought the sarc was obvious.

82338 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Smith, 1, #139 of 1342 🔗

I can tell you that these messages are not stopping people meeting. Everyone I talk to on them is more than happy to meet up.

82340 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Smith, 1, #140 of 1342 🔗

Just trying to avoid getting shut down perhaps.

82648 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to karenovirus, 1, #141 of 1342 🔗

I’m sure that plays a big part, but I can think of at least two apps who have community moderators who moralise about it endlessly and even shut down fora that they think might promote actually real world meetings.

82251 William, replying to William, 6, #142 of 1342 🔗

How do you fight mental depression?

This psychosis is killing my mood.

82440 ▶▶ Graham, replying to William, 5, #143 of 1342 🔗

Concentrate on your interests and hobbies. For you it looks as if music is the thing, because of your piano icon. For me it’s reading history and learning Classical Greek. Struggling through a few lines of Homer takes me a thousand miles and many centuries from the current madness.

82494 ▶▶ Mark, replying to William, 1, #144 of 1342 🔗

As Graham says, interests, hobbies and sports. I hit people with swords (and get hit myself). Just spent a happy couple of hours doing that this morning and feel much more positive for it.

82686 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to William, 1, #145 of 1342 🔗

Golf keeps me sane and I wouldn’t watch the bbc.

82740 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to William, 3, #146 of 1342 🔗

I’ve been reading Tolstoy – managed to finish Anna Karenina and currently plowing through War and Peace, the scale of the plot and characters do force you to concentrate to keep track of the narrative.

Tolstoy also points out that people are inherently complex, there are difficulties in life but in the end, the difficulties will pass and that good wins in the end.

I have found reading War and Peace while sitting through tedious zoom chats stopped me from throwing my laptop out of the window.

82805 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to William, 2, #147 of 1342 🔗

Exercise, sleep, and nutrition are crucial.

83088 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to William, 1, #148 of 1342 🔗

I’ve found playing chess helps to calm my frazzled nerves. Only against a computer, though. I like being able to make errors and undo them without the embarrassment of a human opponent.

I’m a rubbish player in all aspects (positioning, noticing threats, anticipating ahead), but I might be improving over time. I can definitely recommend the all-absorbing focus of it all – plus it’s very abstract so a welcome respite from human society.

82253 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #149 of 1342 🔗

There are two articles which have been promoted by WHO as the most importance evidence for the use of masks in community settings during the C-19 pandemic. This policy change has then been adopted by most countries and I think these two articles are the cornerstones in this new agenda
The first article was the metanalysis in Lancet

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7263814/

This was essentially a rehash of previously observational studies and had no RCTs for C-19 and it has been posted severe criticism earlier on that article.

The second article was

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857

“Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19”
This is interesting. The main authors are Chinese working in US universities and the sole non-Chinese is Mario Molina. He was a previous Nobel laureate working in La Jolla,CA and I suppose his name was put in to increase the respect of the article.(The same “respect” has not been shown to another Nobel Laurate Michael Levitt heavily criticizing the pandemic response in some aspects). The article looks superficially impressive. But it is a total fraud. A letter from 45 epidemiologists posted a letter just some days after it was published and requested the article to be withdrawn immediately.
https://metrics.stanford.edu/PNAS%20retraction%20request%20LoE%20061820
“We are writing with deep concerns about a paper recently published in your journal, entitled “Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19.” The paper made extraordinary claims about routes of transmission, the effectiveness of mask-wearing, and by implication, the ineffectiveness of other non-pharmaceutical interventions. While we agree that mask-wearing plays an important role in slowing the spread of COVID-19, the claims in this study were based on easily falsifiable claims and methodological design flaws. We present only a small selection of the most egregious errors here. Given the scope and severity of the issues we present, and the paper’s outsized and immediate public impact, we ask that the Editors of PNAS retract this paper immediately and reassess the Contributed Submission editorial process by which it was published”“While masks are almost certainly an effective public health measure for preventing and slowing the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the claims presented in this study are dangerously misleading and lack any basis in evidence. Unfortunately, since its publication on June 11th, this article has been distributed and shared widely in traditional and social media, where its claims are being interpreted as rigorous science.As societies debate the risks of re-opening and relaxing social distancing measures, it is  crucial that decisions rely on a solid evidence base.”
As you can see these are epidemiologists (the main ones from John Hopkins) mainstream and part of the mask mantra/project fear but even they understood how bad reputation would be for their cause if this paper was not retracted. I don’t think it has yet been retracted and I think even Molina defended it.There has been discussion in the US of Chinese scientists in the US being part of destabilising US and often being government agents. This article would fuel this suspicion.

82261 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to swedenborg, 2, #150 of 1342 🔗

This is a common occurrence where a paper is publishsed and is taken as fact, in full contradiction to how other safety related issues are progressed.

Policy is made before any forethought, before any Trust but Verify. And then is there any corrective actions taken and people punished? Not a chance.

We live in the Age of the Theorists. Very often they will fit reality to their models.

82331 ▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to swedenborg, 5, #151 of 1342 🔗

Molina is on the paper because as a member of NAS he could get it published via PNAS’s Track 1 process (member submissions), rather than having it properly peer-reviewed. You can tell this because the reviewers are named in the paper. This is a procedure that is unique among academic journals.

82544 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Commander Jameson, #152 of 1342 🔗

Thank you for this revealing information.

82255 James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 25, #153 of 1342 🔗

Wonderful photos at the end of today’s blog that pretty much sums up the courage of our forefathers and the current generation of bedwetters. Not long before Armistice Day on 11th November. Are Boris and our Queen really going to wear face masks at the Cenotaph? These commemorations could well turn into a flashpoint between pro and anti-maskers. And I shall not be one to disrespect the dead of the two World Wars by turning up in a face mask, and not singing. [Too, the establishment Churches in this crisis have shown nothing but moral cowardice – just when strong leadership was called for, and the need to maintain a separation between Church and State. Where is their support for the poor, particularly those in the Third World who will die in their hundreds of thousands because of the trashing of the global economy? Shame on them.]

82309 ▶▶ wendy, replying to James Bertram, 7, #154 of 1342 🔗

I imagine they will cancel any official 11th November gatherings but they can’t stop individuals gathering at cenotaphs and singing VERY LOUDLY!!!

82260 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 55, #155 of 1342 🔗

Went to a coffee & cake place on the beach in Eastbourne yesterday. I’ve been there a few times before because the coffee is very good, and there’s been a very nice Polish girl there whom I assault with my very bad Polish. They do like people taking the trouble to have a go though, I find. She wasn’t there this time and the place had sprouted many more mask instruction signs. It’s tiny, so only one inside at a time. You pay for your order and then take it to the table area outside on the beach.

I step two feet in.

“Have you a mask?” No greeting.
“No”
“Well, can you wear one next time you come?”
“I don’t wear a mask”

Pregnant pause. This does not compute. It’s not “ok”, or “sorry”, or not even “I’m exempt”

Cogs whir – but do not mesh.

“Oh. What would you like?”

There is a clue here. Do not relax eye contact. Maintain throughout. They are on very thin ice, and they know it. I went back for a second coffee. We parted sort of friends, but she looked as though she wasn’t getting paid enough for this shit.

83447 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to James Leary #KBF, #156 of 1342 🔗

I apologise in advance for breach of your copyright, but I’m nicking that one;

“Cogs whir – but do not mesh.”

I love you – in a brotherly sense!

83516 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to James Leary #KBF, #157 of 1342 🔗

Went to the Royal Mail sorting office this morning to collect an undelivered package. The place was festooned with Covid propaganda and a big notice stating that mask wearing was compulsory from 24 July.

There were three assorted mask wearers in front of me and soon a few more were behind. The unmasked woman behind the counter was pleasant enough and if she was at all phased by seeing a naked face on the other side of the screen, she hid it well. She almost smiled as she handed me the package and for one very brief moment, it was as if not wearing masks was the new normal.

82262 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #158 of 1342 🔗

Journal of Virology.Antibodies not the sole thing for future vaccines
https://jvi.asm.org/content/88/19/11034
“Virus-Specific Memory CD8 T Cells Provide Substantial Protection from Lethal Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection”
 “Overall, our results show that SARS-CoV-specific memory CD8 T cells protect susceptible hosts from lethal SARS-CoV infection, but they also suggest that SARS-CoV-specific CD4 T cell and antibody responses are necessary for complete protection.

82283 ▶▶ nat, replying to swedenborg, 21, #159 of 1342 🔗

We are told that we won’t achieve immunity through recovering from the virus (hence the argument against herd immunity) but a vaccine made from the virus will give us immunity. what am I missing ?

82292 ▶▶▶ PAUL TURNBULL, replying to nat, 10, #160 of 1342 🔗

i have asked the very same question on my facebook and got sneered at as usual, i have asked the question in youtube comments and got told i ‘didnt understand how it works’, but again no-one actually gave me an answer…

82360 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to nat, 4, #161 of 1342 🔗

Money invested in vaccines.

82620 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to RickH, #162 of 1342 🔗

And fame (or infamy?) the prize. Lots of big egos in ‘research’.

82435 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nat, 6, #163 of 1342 🔗

It won’t give immunity – they’re already admitting that.

Theoretically it will “mitigate symptoms” for the most vulnerable group.
The fact that it will need to be repeated regularly is the clue.
That clearly isn’t immunity and those pushing the vaccine by claiming it’s the only way to achieve herd immunity are talking out of a very dirty orifice.

82507 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #164 of 1342 🔗

Not to mention that we’ve almost certainly ‘achieved’ herd immunity anyway.

82674 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to nat, 1, #165 of 1342 🔗

Billions of dollars,pounds euros etc

82263 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 44, #166 of 1342 🔗

Just been to the local rubbish tip to be confronted by a barrage of signs and instructions, things like: “staff will not help any customers” – nice, so if you are a woman trying to carry something heavy to the skip that’s at the end of the recycling bay, no-one will help you. Great!

On a more positive note, when I arrived, there was the usual “halt, who goes there?” crap in place at the entrance but, surprise, surprise, the high-viz operative was a full-on lockdown sceptic. We had a lovely chat while I waited my allotted turn, about how it was all a load of old bollocks and he relayed how he’d gone shopping in Aldi sans mask and not been challenged once. A good start to the day!

82326 ▶▶ kf99, replying to kh1485, 5, #167 of 1342 🔗

Pre-booked 15 minute slots at the tip are the ONE good thing to come out of this. No more queuing round here.

82371 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to kf99, 8, #168 of 1342 🔗

On the contrary, we (Merton) never used to have queueing (except at peak bank holiday weekends in spring/summer) and now there’s always a queue and not enough bookings available for each hour booking slots they use… Hugely inefficient.

My ‘one positive’ would be if we never see a return to the ‘cram them in like sardines’ approach many restaurants in cities had started to take over last few years.

82458 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, 4, #169 of 1342 🔗

I fear the emptier restaurants will struggle to make enough profit to survive – or eating out will become the luxury it used to be because prices will have to increase to cover lost footfall.

82399 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 17, #170 of 1342 🔗

It’s really nice that whoever runs your local tip thinks that in an apparently civilised 21st century society putting up a sign saying ‘ staff will not help any customers’ is an okay thing to do,it just about sums up how low the human race has sunk so rapidly this year.I am always prepared to help anyone who needs it,to me it is part of making existence better for everyone,in my life there have been times when I have been in dire need of help and someone has always,without having to be asked,come to my rescue and I am very grateful for that.
Signs like that are just another part of the new ‘I’m the most important ‘heartlessness that is particularly affecting the elderly and children.

82412 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 12, #171 of 1342 🔗

I know, it really is mandating cruelty isn’t it? I’m pretty robust so I managed to hoik my junk over the railings and into the skip with relative ease but if I’d been a bit frail, doing so without help would have been difficult. And, as you say, the apparent relish with which they announce these bloody diktats is disgraceful.

Like you, I would always go to someone’s aid. I was walking into work at 6 yesterday morning and saw a woman walking her dog and she was sobbing. I asked her, rather stupidly but I couldn’t think of what else to say, if she was OK. She just looked so sad, so I asked if there was anything I could help her with but she just shook her head. I hope she was OK in the end. But I won’t let this crap change the person I am even if it is changing others.

82420 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 9, #172 of 1342 🔗

From your postings Kh I can tell you are a very decent person who would help anybody and I know there must be a lot of people out there who are the same but in the past few months they seem hard to find and those that thrive on presumed power and selfishness seem to have obtained the upper hand.

82264 nat, replying to nat, 29, #173 of 1342 🔗

There was a protest planned this weekend in Melbourne, however the police arrested the two organisers ahead of the protest and charged them with incitement. The protest has been incorrectly labelled as an “anti mask rally” but it was simply in opposition to the city’s draconian shutdown. This is really  Minority Report level dystopia, where citizens are charged with pre -crimes. I have read reports of other planned protests  being disappeared from social media.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/victoria-police-arrest-melbourne-anti-mask-rally-organisers-ahead-of-protest-c-1222910

There is a new label now being used to describe us sceptics – “covid deniers” is increasingly replacing “anti vaxxers”. It’s a master stoke in malevolence, by managing to evoke two nasty extreme right conspiracy theories – that covid 19 does not exist, and holocaust denial.

82269 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to nat, 25, #174 of 1342 🔗

Having been a “climate denier” for many years I’m not fussed. My responses is becoming “so you support the government’s policy on this? Okay so you support kids and old people dying alone and scared as well. Good for you”

82299 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to nat, 7, #175 of 1342 🔗

The narrative is now that vaccine sceptics are conspiracy theorists, because many of them also think masks are pointless. So would Dr Jenny Harries be among the conspiracy theorists?

82353 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #176 of 1342 🔗

Venn diagram of Cimate Deniers, Brexiteers and Lockdown Sceptics = ‘0’

82359 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to karenovirus, 20, #177 of 1342 🔗

I think there are some Remainers on here, who are very solid Sceptics. I welcome them. I think this is way more important that Brexit. Climate stuff I haven’t paid much attention to so I am not sure – I certainly wouldn’t say I was definitely a “denier”.

I think the most significant overlap is between sceptics and people who truly believe in freedom of speech, and I think freedom of speech/ideas is the single most important issue we face, after this virus madness. And of course they are related.

82387 ▶▶▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Julian, 16, #178 of 1342 🔗

Well I’m pleased that Remainers are welcomed here as I’ve been following this site and commenting almost since the beginning and am definitely a Remainer. Thanks!
For me the two issues are completely separate. The positive and negative effects of Brexit will become apparent over years and at the moment are mere speculation for many of us. The negative effects and the craziness of lockdown however are visible now, affecting people now, and as individuals we all have the ability to make our views known and make our own small protests where we can.
There are no positives.

82392 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Suitejb, 9, #179 of 1342 🔗

Agreed. As a confirmed Brexiteer I am willing to strain to my bosom any Remainer who opposes the current bollox.
You have been warned.

82464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 4, #180 of 1342 🔗

Strain away Annie. Go girl!
Truth is what unites us all.

82443 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, -5, #181 of 1342 🔗

I voted remain because I could see clearly the horror show that a leave vote would cause. I also quite like the idea of being in a European commune. Being able to live in Europe, use their health services, travel anywhere I wanted to go to.

That last vote was obviously going to usher in a new age of Fascism. Every member of the Tory cabinet a card carrying raving Fascist. I spoiled my ballot paper as I have done in every election.

82407 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #182 of 1342 🔗

Anyone who goes against WHO guidelines is a conspiracy theorist, including significant proportion of health professionals !

82800 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #183 of 1342 🔗

I am not a climate denier, as I am old enough to know that it is getting hotter and that winters now only very rarely happen in the UK. What’s causing these changes is altogether another matter.

However, I am a very well researched anti-vaxxer and also now a Covid-19 denier. There is no proper science that proves the infection called Covid-19 actually exists. It seems to be little more than repackaged seasonal influenza with lots of hype from corrupt government and complicit media.

Of course, the eugenicist and ardent advocate of global depopulation, Mr Bill (WHO) Gates is also very deeply involved. Bill’s vaccines certainly do have a very chequered history, but this time around, I’m sure they will do exactly what Bill wants them to do.

82811 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Rowan, #184 of 1342 🔗

I am not a climate denier

Yep, I’ve spotted weather occasionally too.

82349 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nat, 5, #185 of 1342 🔗

This is the Australia that has had a total of 250 deaths from the Covid ?

82390 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, 1, #186 of 1342 🔗

Yes !

82439 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 3, #187 of 1342 🔗

TERRIFYING !!!!!!!!

82358 ▶▶ RickH, replying to nat, 2, #188 of 1342 🔗

It’s interesting to remember that Australia historically has form in terms of totalitarian measures – aided and abetted by ‘democratic’ UK.

Remember Goff Whitlam?.

82379 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to RickH, 1, #189 of 1342 🔗

Sad but true. Having lived in both countries, I can say that the media has more freedom and independence in the UK than Australia. Accordingly, the public is better informed.

82465 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nat, 5, #190 of 1342 🔗

God help the Aussies then!

82814 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #191 of 1342 🔗

They’ll need to help themselves.

Would the Aussie army shoot fellow Aussies ?

82388 ▶▶ annie, replying to nat, 3, #192 of 1342 🔗

Hitler upis alive and well and living in Melbourne.

82717 ▶▶ mjr, replying to nat, 2, #193 of 1342 🔗

sceptic and phobic are now both words used to condemn people who do not toe the line. As mhcp says below, anyone who does not accept the Greta doctrine on climate change – anyone that queries the science or lack of it even slightly is a denier…
Same with phobias. Originally a word used as a suffix for a fear, whether rational or irrational, of things, again has been corrupted. For example i do not like certain aspects of islam – treatment of women, treatment of gays – but to criticise in anyway makes me an “islamaphobe”, Strictly (and etymologically) speaking that indicates i am scared of Islam. However I am not… I am critical of certain aspects. (Other religions are available and also subject to criticism),

82764 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to nat, 1, #194 of 1342 🔗

While people label Covid deniers as being extreme, there is little hope for the future.

The coronavirus known as SARS-Cov-2 has not been isolated or proven to exist. Covid-19 seems little more than a rebranded seasonal influenza, which has been built up by ludicrous hype from both government and complicit mainstream media.

Dig just a little deeper and you find Bill Gates waiting in the wings with his vaccinations of mass depopulation.

82776 ▶▶ Xenophanes, replying to nat, 2, #195 of 1342 🔗

We should reply in kind by referring to those following lockdown orthodoxy as ‘immunity deniers’; two can play at that game.

82809 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nat, 2, #196 of 1342 🔗

Oppose anything in the agenda, you’re a denier. Not just the holocaust.

82265 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 9, #197 of 1342 🔗

Contrary to what the MSM tell us, this is what popular beaches in Cornwall (and Devon) looked like yesterday, Saturday:
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/what-beaches-cornwall-devon-look-4407609

For those of you who can’t be bothered to click the link, very few people on them.

I think it’s wise to withhold my location on the web, but I would say that my local beach, where we had a nice picnic and swim yesterday late afternoon, here in the south west was pleasantly busy. No-one seemed to give a stuff about anti-social distancing, just keeping the normal polite spaces between groups, but inevitably coming into close contact enough to kick sand into my salad as they walked around. The pubs around the beach were teeming with people. The only second wave will be from that big posh yacht going by.

Separate topic: Zoe Covid, when it started, said there were over 2m infected people in the UK. I gave up looking at it about two weeks ago, as their self-reporting method seems a bit dubious to me. I looked last night. They estimate the total number of infected people in this country, aged 19 to 69 (?), is… 25,000! That’s one in two thousand. I checked various council areas and most came up with that proportion (I didn’t realise till recently that you can click on each locality and a pop-up appears with the estimated local rate).

82267 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 35, #199 of 1342 🔗

I was speaking to a friend who was saying that they are starting to see real issues with certain specialist procedures. They work in gastro fields involving scopes and the like.

Quite a few people now being seen have more severe stage cancers, ones that could have been dealt with, even just to prolong life for a few more years. What has happened is that procedures ear marked for say February, were delayed by standard delays. Then Covid measures kicked in and the delays were extended dramatically.

A lot of staff were willing to work but guidelines said certain PPE was needed. Other staff wouldn’t work without it due to the top down policy from managers and advice saying Covid required it. There seems to be little local verification in the NHS. All policy driven central mandate stuff that is only turned around by persistence.

Skeleton procedures then ensue causing more delays. In the last month services have been ramped up with extra agency help, to try and eat into the backlog. Problem is now that person hasn’t been seen for 5/6 months which for certain people and cancers (like bowel cancer) has meant a serious progression.

And these people are not old either.

My friend is expecting law suits to be brought.

82278 ▶▶ Wesley, replying to mhcp, 18, #200 of 1342 🔗

“My friend is expecting law suits to be brought.”
I do hope so. Any visiting lawyers want to get together a pro bono group for this?

82280 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to mhcp, 3, #201 of 1342 🔗

Doesn’t the Covid Act though claim to prevent legal action against medics and similar when lack of treatment is said to be due to the virus? This is not to say that it couldn’t be challenged in the courts however.

82356 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #202 of 1342 🔗

Lack of treatment due to the lockdown ?

82372 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Cambridge N, 1, #203 of 1342 🔗

I think it does. The counter argument would be then why didn’t the hospital quickly test this i.e evidence based medicine. Which is one of the main NHS remits.

82312 ▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 9, #204 of 1342 🔗

The more lawsuits, the sooner, the better.

82316 ▶▶ wendy, replying to mhcp, 7, #205 of 1342 🔗

I think if lawyers were to call out about group actions many many people would contact them. The personal abuses and losses have been atrocious. It seems to me to be the only way to get these thing proper publicity.

82584 ▶▶ GLT, replying to mhcp, #206 of 1342 🔗

If Simon Dolan’s case is successful then other claims much more likely to succeed.

82676 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to mhcp, 2, #207 of 1342 🔗

Thousands of heart operations have been cancelled.
One of my colleagues 30-year old partner had urgent heart operation scheduled for March. The operation got cancelled, he collapsed and died in May. It is very tragic.
And I believe there many lives lost because of cancelled operation. The hospital where the operation was scheduled was never overwhelmed with Covid.
If there was a group action my colleague would join but she will not sue by herself.

82268 Stuart, replying to Stuart, 18, #208 of 1342 🔗

It was heartwarming to see the lockdown protests. I would have attended had I known. Can you provide details of future similar events to maximise support.

I always look forward to reading the Sceptics a rare island of sanity in a sea of madness. Many thanks

82288 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Stuart, 3, #209 of 1342 🔗

Join the forum save our rights UK?

82319 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Stuart, 4, #210 of 1342 🔗

Yes I would have attended and many I know. Would be good to list any future dates on here.

82406 ▶▶ microdave, replying to Stuart, 5, #211 of 1342 🔗

I would have attended had I known

Absolutely – I was furious at finding out there was one near me. Obviously, it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the local press, so somewhere like this really needs to help promote any future gatherings.

82274 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 19, #212 of 1342 🔗

I’ve been looking forward to a camping trip in the New Forest with a group of car enthusiasts next weekend. It was all arranged weeks ago, a simple two-day affair visiting a motorcycle museum on the Saturday and then going to an event at Beaulieu on the Sunday. There were 10 people booked last week, now three have dropped out because they don’t want to be forced to wear masks. But of course, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson knows what’s best for the economy.

82313 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ben Shirley, 15, #213 of 1342 🔗

Make sure the museum knows. why the three dropped out.
Very likely the museum didn’t want to impose the rule, but we must stiffen resistance somehow.

82321 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to annie, 12, #214 of 1342 🔗

Yes I am thinking of a standard letter to drop off at places I would like to go to but won’t because of the mask mandate. Let’s all try to do this if possible.

82373 ▶▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to wendy, 2, #215 of 1342 🔗
82695 ▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to annie, 1, #216 of 1342 🔗

That’s a good idea, thanks. Mind you, the motorcycle museum has adopted a cash-only policy of its own volition so it must be a bit bed-wettery.

82819 ▶▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, #217 of 1342 🔗

Oops. I meant card-only.

82285 Alison9, replying to Alison9, 11, #218 of 1342 🔗

Yesterday the issue of long term Covid symptoms was raised and in the Swedish doctor’s blog post (link above in the main page) there is a question raised in the comments section about this and I am going to copy and paste Sebastian Rushworth MD’s answer here (hope that is Okay to do?). I think it sheds some light on this. The article is well worth a read by the way … how I envy and admire the Swedish right now.

‘The vast majority recover without complications. If you become really sick and you spend weeks in the ICU on a ventilator then there are a whole host of complications you can experience, mostly related to the fact that you are immobilized (muscle loss, pneumonia, and pulmonary embolism for example) and to the fact that air is actively being pushed In to your lungs instead of passively dragged in. These are the same complications everyone who spend a lot of time intubated risks experiencing. Apart from that, there have been reports of vascular complications, like Kawasaki disease in children and stroke in adults, but these are all very uncommon’.

82323 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Alison9, 2, #219 of 1342 🔗

Yes our media is emphasising the few bad outcomes and never mentioning most people are totally asymptomatic.

82328 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to wendy, 8, #220 of 1342 🔗

“asymptomatic” = not ill, let’s call a spade a spade, not “a sharp piece of metal capable of decapitation”

82370 ▶▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to IMoz, 5, #221 of 1342 🔗

Yes, what does it matter if everyone in the whole country tests positive if they are not ill?!!

82376 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 2, #222 of 1342 🔗

It doesn’t matter a bean!

82522 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #223 of 1342 🔗

We’re forever pointing this out to people. That, plus talking about ‘cases’ or ‘infections’ when what is meant is a positive result to a test of unreliable accuracy.

82375 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to IMoz, 2, #224 of 1342 🔗

Yes, if you are so right. Perhaps we can hope Carl Heneghan can help out with some research on whether asymptomatic folks can actually pass on the virus. It’s my gut feeling they don’t but it would be good to have some studies on this.

82377 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to wendy, #225 of 1342 🔗

Sorry the ‘if’ shouldn’t be there and too late to edit

82506 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to wendy, 1, #226 of 1342 🔗

Why would anyone need research to prove a negative? What research is there to prove that they can pass? There have been all of two reports (cf. proper studies) and both had a sample count of 1 patient , on top of that, the actual reports are risible, and I’m being polite.

82829 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #227 of 1342 🔗

All the “evidence” I’ve seen for the Asymptomatic Superspreader Myth is contact tracers asserting that they’re totally sure they traced absolutely everyone and yet somehow the virus slipped through the net. It’s closely related to the Myth that the people who have tested positive are the only people who are positive.

83016 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, 2, #228 of 1342 🔗

Did you see the report of the German doctors interviewing the Chinese patien in China over the phone? The interview went along the lines of “did you have any symptoms?”—“No,” “so it was a normal day”—“yes, I felt tired, took paracetamol with antihistamines and went to sleep”

“Aha,” the doctors said, “this proves asymptomatic spread!”

:facepalm:

82385 ▶▶ annie, replying to Alison9, 3, #229 of 1342 🔗

Don’t you get Kawasaki from riding motor bikes?

82447 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to annie, 1, #230 of 1342 🔗

Are you thinking of the Suzuki Method?

82286 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 21, #232 of 1342 🔗

Amazed Northern Ireland going the masks route…haven’t they been basically covid free for months now?? Just doesn’t add up all these countries (England included) slamming in place ridiculous mask mandates when the thing is barely present anymore.

82526 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark II, 6, #233 of 1342 🔗

Yes, funny that! Someone remind me why so many countries and states have mandated mask-wearing when there’s nothing to catch. ‘Couldn’t be anything to do with control, could it?

82293 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #234 of 1342 🔗

“Postcard from Whitby”.
It’s great to know that Whitby is doing well but the Covid Safe rail timetable means I can’t set of to my nearest, large, seaside town until 11.30am on a Sunday.

82298 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 9, #235 of 1342 🔗

And on the subject of fake photos, two weeks ago a resident of that same seaside town (old seadog type) told me that he could recognise very large amounts of flotsam on the beach which resulted from a particularly large storm three years ago which were likewise being presented as Seaside Madness.

82304 Mark B, replying to Mark B, 8, #236 of 1342 🔗

The linked article by the Swedish doctor is very interesting. Here he is answering a comment about the PCR tests:

As I understand it from the literature, the tests have a high false negative rate (why we’ve been re-testing people with a negative test result but where we still think covid is likely) but a pretty low rate of false positives. However, I don’t put much stock in what the PCR tests show on a societal level, for two reasons. Firstly, people stay PCR positive for up to two months after being infected even though they are no longer infectious, so a positive PCR test is often a sign of an old infection that is over and done with. Secondly, how much covid you find depends on how much testing you do, and the rates of testing over the course of the pandemic have varied a lot both within and between countries. This is why it makes much more sense to look at the number of deaths than the number of infections, since that statistic doesn’t vary based on how much testing you’re doing and is much harder to manipulate.

82354 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark B, 3, #237 of 1342 🔗

To which one has to add that *what* the PCR test measures is a bone of contention.

82369 ▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to RickH, 1, #238 of 1342 🔗

This was discussed on a Facebook post yesterday on the NHS page (which I am now following just to stick my Lockdown Sceptic oar in there). She was asking if the test measures “corona virus” or “covid 19”. As usual people had a right go at her. I couldn’t answer but wish I could. Can anyone tell me?

82514 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 2, #239 of 1342 🔗

Covid 19 is the name of the illness caused by SARS-CoV-2, which is the name of the coronavirus itself.

82527 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, #240 of 1342 🔗

And a tool of control.

82366 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark B, 5, #241 of 1342 🔗

You can only die once, although I suppose Boris could dig them up again and claim the 2nd wave got them.

82383 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 4, #242 of 1342 🔗

You are allowed to die once per wave.

82416 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to annie, 5, #243 of 1342 🔗

But didn’t that poor wee Muslim boy, the youngest victim in the UK at the time, die more than once?

He was also reported as dying in Portugal as well if I remember correctly as the pictures of the “victim” were identical and possibly Poland and Turkey.

82519 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #244 of 1342 🔗

yes, & I would love to get to the bottom of that story.

82761 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark B, 2, #245 of 1342 🔗

The number of deaths isn’t always that reliable either. But at least they do count everyone (or nearly everyone) who actually died. I agree that if you want to see what’s going on with the epidemic it’s best just to look at deaths, even though they’re three weeks late, unless you’re prepared to do a bit of digging and see what, if anything, you can conclude from the tests.

You can test positive after a couple of months but it’s rare. It’s an issue now because with the prevalence so low and the way the tests are being used the false positive rate, although low, is dominant.

All things considered the PCR test is pretty good (about 70% sensitive and 99% specific) but like any tool it has to be used properly.

There’s no point doing all your testing after it’s all over anyway, and there’s not much point using it to try to track an epidemic unless you make some effort to ensure your sampling is reasonably random. It’s not really much use for isolating a country like NZ because of false negatives– if you’re really trying to do that you’re going to have to quarantine all visitors anyway.

It is useful as a diagnostic tool however. If you have symptoms and test positive for SARS2 it is very likely that you have Covid-19 and this may influence treatment, although of course the doctors should bear in mind that you might have a different infection or other cause of the symptoms.

82314 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #246 of 1342 🔗

https://twitter.com/plaforscience/status/1292228482488053760/photo/1
Spain. Aragon has reported high hospitalizations. Or revolving door?
“Aragón region is now supposed to be the spark of the new explosion. High hospitalisation is aired. NEW FEAR TRICK Hospitalise and immediately discharge. Then air ONLY the first number. NEW FEAR TRICK to take some 2~0 days to arrive. Are this really hospital cases?”
 Red is discharged from hospital.Grey admitted to hospital.

82367 ▶▶ wendy, replying to swedenborg, 3, #247 of 1342 🔗

Thank you for posting all the links to research and articles. It is really helpful

82436 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendy, 3, #248 of 1342 🔗

Yes, I second that. For sure THANK YOU SWEDENBORG! Your a hero.

83081 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, #249 of 1342 🔗

I KNEW they were doing this!!

Well, I didn’t. But I felt it in my waters.

I swear to god most to the people now in hospital with ‘covid’ are enduring a very lonely stay in a hospital room with the sniffles.

82322 stefarm, 4, #250 of 1342 🔗
82345 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 21, #251 of 1342 🔗

If the virus is as deadly as the hype, how come the government has to test more than a hundred thousand people a day who are not ill in order to find cases?

82352 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #252 of 1342 🔗

… and the idea (as posited by the ICL garbage) that ‘track and trace’ provides a solution (or mitigation) – anyway – is utter, patent nonsense to any thinking person. The flaws are obvious – even beyond the fact that there is no epidemic around

Remember – in saner times – less than a year ago – the WHO (before it became totally compromised) itself dismissed it as a worthwhile measure.

Kerrrchinggg!!!?

82346 RickH, replying to RickH, 16, #253 of 1342 🔗

Just a sanity check for other Victor Meldrews who simply ‘Don’t bel ieve it’ :

At the height of the mortality spike this year, the moving average figure of deaths was at about 750 a day; the figure is now running in the single figure area, sometimes going into the teens : i.e. a decrease by a factor of about -10x. (CEBM)

The curve matches *all* curves of declining infection for Covid. There is no epidemic – and all the scary stuff is based on the equivalent of casting chicken bones – not science. The ‘second wave’ hypothesis is based on negative wishful thinking – there is no consistency in ‘waves’ emerging from epidemic spikes – and certainly no indicators of one at this time emerging from the current situation.

Schools are a particular bone of contention at present, and it is right to emphasize the lack of evidence of them being agents of spread – particularly in this situation of pretty obvious growing herd immunity.

However, I’d pick up on one thing :

some bedwetting headteachers are telling parents they’ll only be able to educate their children for half days.”

Bedwetting – perhaps – but the real problem is the clutch of stupid anti-social distancing measures advised by government that make normal functioning education impossible. These are both logistical and educational nonsense.

82394 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to RickH, 3, #254 of 1342 🔗

The doublespeak calls their reasoning “science” where it is the opposite of science.

Look at what people said in March\April.

Who was wrong? What are they saying now? Ignore it.

Who was right? What are they saying now? Do what they say.

82397 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to RickH, 3, #255 of 1342 🔗

It’s true. With the best will in the world, it is extremely difficult for schools to re-open.

82429 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 16, #256 of 1342 🔗

It’s done it’s job, the virus has killed all those who were extremely vulnerable to it. The asymptomatic and mildness of the cases in people with healthy immune systems show that we are more than capable of resisting the virus.

If I can see this then any person can see it, then the Governments and experts around the world can see it too, which shows this is nothing to do with this virus and that there is something more sinister being played out.

82500 ▶▶ Richard, replying to RickH, 4, #257 of 1342 🔗

Agreed – not sure if anyone else was listening to five live around 10am this morning (always useful to understand what enemy is thinking!) – there was an item about Tenby – lots of talk over crowding / angry queues and locals moving around before 9.30 otherwise not feeling safe. But then other guest came on and said but good news is that there are no signs of any second waves – the presenter couldn’t have cut them off faster – it clearly didn’t suit the narrative at all.

82955 ▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to RickH, #258 of 1342 🔗

I couldn’t care less about the bedwetting teachers: teachers have complained for years! As I said elsewhere in this thread, Parents are the ones with the duty to deliver an education to their children under art.7 of the Education Act 1996, they need to hold teachers accountable! Sack the lot!
People are allowed to gather in a group of up to 30 under the current law, they could share resources, etc…(Home Educators have done this for years!) Please don’t misundersand my message… I’m Pro-education: School or Otherwise! I’m Pro-socialise: School or Otherwise! Lockdown is preventing both education and social development!
My children are adults but I wish/hope they have/will have the same choice in education I was afforded and then chose for my children.

83040 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, #259 of 1342 🔗

They will call covids normal seasonal return the Second Wave so those local authorities run by authoritarian nutters will be able to impose local lockdown as severe as they like.
Included in the Second Wave numbers will be the bronchial and lung disorders caused by wearing petri dishes over the mouth for hours on end, week after week.

82362 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #260 of 1342 🔗

Friends perhaps some of you can help me out. I am struggling this morning to understand how the teachers unions will respond to ‘moral duty’ when it is promoted by a man with the morals of a sewer rat!

82378 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 11, #261 of 1342 🔗

It’s always puzzled me how an individual whose only skill is in the field of bullshit and lying has been blindly followed in this sad parade of fearful idiocy.

82380 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 13, #262 of 1342 🔗

Four of us are due to say at a very nice hotel on the south coast in a couple of weeks, in order to visit OH’s disabled cousin. We stayed there last year and it’s a big spacious place.

Just checked on their website and in particular on their Covid policy. I kid you not, there are 75 separate points in their guidelines, one of which even covers their fried eggs policy FGS!! Apparently, they will be served at the same time as toast!

i was more concerned about their mandatory mask policy in all public areas from August 8th, so have just phoned them to check. No problem at all if you are exempt. So why isn’t this made clear on their website? I made this point the other day about the notices outside shops- the bit about exemptions is always in the smallest of print. It is almost as if they don’t want you to know that you could actually be exempt.

82384 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 6, #263 of 1342 🔗

To be sympathetic – I guess businesses are caught in a bit of a trap over this.

82903 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Margaret, 3, #264 of 1342 🔗

My two most common experiences so far are that people are complete,y thrown by my turning up without a mask on – they simply cannot comprehend why someone would not be wearing one. The second experience is related, which is pure fear that my not having a mask means I am going to give the virus to them.

I am genuinely perplexed that the majority of people 2 weeks ago were happily not wearing masks & with the flick of mandatory legislation, the majority start wearing them & think that non-mask wearers are the odd ones out. Utter, utter madness.

83050 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #265 of 1342 🔗

Last week a woman asked me why I was not wearing a mask
“I’m exempt”
‘Why are you exempt?’
“Because I’m special” and walked on.

82381 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 2, #266 of 1342 🔗

Qu: excuse my ignorance but I have been blanking out anything to do with track and trace. However as this seems to be the new go-to weapon in this fight (after successful deployment of homemade face masks), how does it work? Does the COVID-19 Exposure Notification on iPhone have to be switched on?

82424 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Fed up, 2, #267 of 1342 🔗

https://fullfact.org/health/covid-19-track-and-trace-app-has-not-been-automatically-downloaded-peoples-phones/
You’d have to switch on Bluetooth and download something else, from memory. You can even delete the CV19 Exp notification by
some method explained somewhere on YouTube but it’s an extreme faff so without Bluetooth on I didn’t bother.

82452 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 4, #268 of 1342 🔗

But I’m still fascinated by the whole £10Bn/M this thing is supposed to cost. A lot of people here, who obviously know about computers, rubbished that as the cost of developing the app alone. £10Bn looked weird to me, as HMRC’s IT programme costs less than this and should dwarf it in scale (and is, arguably, of more use to government…)
Then there are said to be 27K tracers working to scripts, so not much expertise, say £15 p hr (some supervisors more, some less). £16M per week if working a standard 40 hour week (anecdotally they say they’re standing by/watching Netflix all day long)? If this started mid June, say 8 weeks in, we’ve already spent £128M on this with Serco, so the £10M figure must be wrong? Is it my assumptions or my maths?
I think it might have been AG who said they’d done an FoI request on costs – have you had any answer yet, I wonder?

82461 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bruno, 3, #269 of 1342 🔗

They probably had to try to develop artificial intelligence first in order to actually design the app as they have no natural intelligence

82524 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Fed up, 1, #270 of 1342 🔗

You have to have a T&T app installed for it to be used

82991 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to JohnB, #271 of 1342 🔗

Thanks. Good to know

83084 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Fed up, #272 of 1342 🔗

Just keep your Bluetooth off and don’t download anything

82382 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #273 of 1342 🔗

I understand the Normandy comparison but the reality there is that I’m pretty sure everyone involved on D Day were under 50 and had passed their medical.

That would mean a similar cohort from today would have a survival rate of 99.999% based on this article:

https://mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2020/06/the-extraordinary-impact-of-age-on-covid-19-fatalities.html

82393 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #274 of 1342 🔗

In the great scheme of (logical) things – the age gradient isn’t so surprising, and is actually a marker of the genera l lack of severity of Covid. Many people at the end of their lives succumb to respiratory infections – Covid triggered or not.

82501 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #275 of 1342 🔗

The trouble is, if we are going to nitpick the details of the joke the most inaccurate part is the “facing almost certain death”.

82386 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 14, #276 of 1342 🔗

Latest report from La France Profounde. Staying in a gîte in the Lot valley with 3 generations of the family. No mask all the way through Stansted, or on Ryanair flight. 2 of the flight attendants asked us to wear masks, told them we were exempt. One said have you got the paperwork, said yes (about to show him the download from Gov site but before I could he said OK!). Old chap across the aisle asked how can you become exempt as “wearing a mask is a pain in the arse” Told him about medical, psychological reasons and severe distress on wearing a mask. Sent the “I am exempt from wearing a face covering” to his mobile.

On reaching the terminal building decided to wear a mask as not worth tangling with the French authorities. All masked up in car hire place, supermarket, Boulangerie. Don’t seem to be any dissenters here in France.

Bizarre experience in a small local general store this morning. Madame on the till made me use hand sanitiser and when I tried to put some potatoes into a paper bag she got very agitated and said I wasn’t allowed to take anything off the shelves- she insisted on serving me! Shan’t be going there again but have great sympathy for these poor people who’ve been scared witless by their governments.

82409 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to DocRC, 2, #277 of 1342 🔗

But the French do that, it’s what makes going into those little general stores such a pleasant experience! The great service they provide – they love to show that they’re different to supermarkets!

82426 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to DocRC, 13, #278 of 1342 🔗

“Old chap across the aisle asked how can you become exempt as wearing a mask is a pain in the arse?”

You don’t BECOME exempt, you already ARE exempt if wearing a mask is a pain in the arse for you.

82391 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 18, #279 of 1342 🔗

Quick question for all those in sceptics land.

I am currently putting the finishing touches to an open letter I am going to send to Boris, Hancock, Starmer, Hunt, my MP and a few others.

Anyone know if Graham Brady is still the Chair of the 1922 Committee?

Also below is the start of the open letter – once sent I will post in full.

My question is is it too strong or do I go with it?

“Boris,

I address this to “Call me Boris” as you no longer warrant the respect that Sir, Mr Johnson or Prime Minister conveys.

Even the office of Prime Minister has been sullied over the past 30-50 years and no longer deserves the respect that august position once did on the world stage.

I make no apologies for any profanity that appears in this letter as sometimes there are no words sufficiently strong enough to convey my feelings in everyday modern English so sometimes it is necessary to use old-fashioned language that is adequately robust enough to describe the feelings exactly as I feel them and I hope you will understand why they are used in the context they are.

This is the second time in 21 years that my business has been utterly and totally destroyed by Government malice, incompetence and greed to meet an unknown agenda and I don’t know if I have the energy and drive to start over from nothing a 3rd time.

I have been following the “covid-19” farce since February 2020 and at no time has anything that has come from a government or local authority or from international agencies and quangos made much sense due to a complete lack of internal logic as per Government press releases, actions and so on and I would like to know why?

It has morphed from “all is OK, just wash your hands” to “it’s only for 3 weeks to save the NHS” to “a little longer to flatten the curve” to “we must wait on a vaccine or we will all die” and now is “wear a mask or kill your granny while waiting for a vaccine” and I want to know why?

What are the justifications for incarcerating billions of people, destroying the economy of the world, ripping apart the social fabric of nations, villifing the few sovereign nations that had the temerity not to follow the agenda and killing more people as collateral damage than the original virus was modelled to kill?

So far nothing that has been released into the public domain has justified it to my satisfaction so what the fuck is going on all over the world?”

A bit later on:

“Your Government, the Opposition, the Civil Service and local authorities and virtually every single MP have treated their constituents and the population of this country with utter contempt.

I know of many people who have written to their MP with their concerns over the situation and very few actually received an answer, the vast majority were totally ignored.

Those few who have received an answer, the replies generally can be paraphrased as “blah blah blah, piffle, waffle, “follow the science” do as you are told, follow the agenda and narrative, you should not ask those questions”.

The 1 (one) reply I received from my MP, Sir William Cash, was “Many thanks for your recent correspondence – please do not hesitate to contact me again on any issue where you feel I may be of assistance.”.

Not exactly answering anything or taking anything seriously is it?

Utter contempt for the electorate. It would have been less insulting for him to ignore me.

Is this because the members of both Houses of Parliament have been totally supine since February and conspicuous by their absence and lack of holding the Government to account and have just surrendered all powers and allowed the country to be governed by Ministerial diktat and edict, Twitter announcements and Statutory Instruments that have had zero Parliamentary debate or scrutiny, allowed the British Army to be used aggressively against the population (77th Brigade and 13th Signals Regiment), allowed the deliberate confusion, muddling and obfuscation between “guidance”, “guidelines” and actual law and handed over decision making to an unelected cabal of “experts” who, along with many people in positions of authority within Government and business, are all linked almost incestuously back to a couple of very, very rich individuals who have a stated agenda of their own involving vaccines, travel passes and associated paperwork, a great reset of the economy and civilisation and a new green utopia.

The “Opposition” argument consists of “lockdown should have been earlier, more draconian measures, more stringent lockdowns, more more more totalitarian creep and destruction of the country”.

Not a peep on whether any of the measures were justified in any way, shape or form and certainly no meaningful holding Government to account”

There are facts, figures, quotes etc after this as well but not expecting an answer.

82401 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #280 of 1342 🔗

I’d start with
‘OI TOSSPOT’
Apart from that you’re spot on Awkward Git

82408 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to karenovirus, 3, #281 of 1342 🔗

TOSSPOT haha that’s a blast from the past i haven’t heard that for a long time and will now become my insult of choice 🙂

82402 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #282 of 1342 🔗

I seem to remember Brady stepped down as chair of 1922 Committee during the Tory leadership election last year.
Good letter. I personally would cut out the profanities as they can just dismiss you as a thick bigot and ignore your personal heart-felt message about your business. failure due to their ridiculous ill-judged policies.

82434 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to DocRC, 4, #283 of 1342 🔗

Agree. Always keep it constructive

82405 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #284 of 1342 🔗

Way too long and repetitive for the minion who will undoubtedly read and bin.
All you need to ask is, how many millions did Bill Gates bung you?

83087 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to bluemoon, #285 of 1342 🔗

Brung ya.

82427 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #286 of 1342 🔗

Brady is still the Chair. I would also send it to Sir Charles Walker (deputy chair) – I think he has expressed concerns about the lockdown pretty early on. Similarly, Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown – he took apart Hancock’s permanent secretary at Dept of Health (he is on the health select committee, as well as senior in the 1922)

82430 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #287 of 1342 🔗

Will look them up and add them to the list I think.

82493 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Awkward Git, #288 of 1342 🔗

You, Mr Git, are wonderful!

82496 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Awkward Git, #289 of 1342 🔗

Its an excellent letter, but long.

My advice, address it as you did, ‘Dear Boris and then draw a badly drawn comedy cock underneath and sign it, best regards etc etc..

82502 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #290 of 1342 🔗

Good letter, but to get a response I’d remove the swear words, the references to 77th Brigade and 13th Signals Regiment, and change the vaccine bit as it just sounds conspiratorial.

83083 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, #291 of 1342 🔗

I copied and pasted your letter in my wordpad diary along with hundreds of other apt comments that I have read here since this site was created.

82398 karenovirus, 15, #292 of 1342 🔗

One of my many conversations yesterday (thank you for your hilarious football team reply Margaret but I only had a short while here on LS) started when a big ‘ole black man, think Southern Baptist preacher, boomed out to nobody in particular

“I wish this Virus would go back to xxxxing hell !”

This was greeted with a few grunted nods of agreement but I waited my moment before saying to him quietly
‘It’s already gone Covid’s not here anymore’.
“HUH ! ?”
Gently gave him a few ONS stats, 500k tests last week = 57 ‘positive’ from 57m population. 5 UK Covid deaths on Friday against approx 450 from cancer, no deaths in the County for 7 weeks . . . the usual.

A pleasant chat ensued during which it emerged that he’s a bit of a closet Covid Skeptic himself. I think his opening gambit was intended to get a round of approval, instead of which he got me.

I went on to explain that the only bad things happening in the country at present have nothing to do with the Covid but are the result of johnson’s cowardly extended Lockdown.
He smiled, pulled the stupid mask off his chin and put it in his briefcase.

82403 Awkward Git, 2, #293 of 1342 🔗

Found these mooching round the DHSC website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-antibody-tests/the-differences-between-coronavirus-covid-19-tests-accessible-version-of-infographic

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-antibody-tests/coronavirus-covid-19-antibody-tests

In this one is the quote:

“Antibody tests differ to virus swab (PCR) tests, which test to see if you currently have the virus.
There is no strong evidence yet to suggest that those who have had the virus develop long-lasting immunity which would prevent them from getting the virus again.
Therefore, the value of antibody tests is currently limited to answering the question of whether someone has had the virus or not”

And this quote from here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-tests-and-testing-kits-for-coronavirus-covid-19-work/for-patients-the-public-and-professional-users-a-guide-to-covid-19-tests-and-testing-kits :

The limits of testing kits Even if a test has a CE mark, it will have limitations.
A test only provides results relevant to when the sample was taken. No test is 100% reliable.
The manufacturer will make a claim for reliability when used as intended, but many other factors can also affect reliability.

82410 Awkward Git, 2, #294 of 1342 🔗

This is a droll document:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/893320/COVID-19_Infection_prevention_and_control_guidance_complete.pdf

They give themselves 2 outs right from the start as it states that the employer is actually responsible under Health and Safety legislation then later as any PPE should now be treated as contaminated waste it comes underCOSHH legislation.

basically 50+ pages saying this is what we want you to do but you are on your own if you follow it and it is inadequate.

Exactly as us sceptics have known for months and I’ve received in writing from Councils.

82414 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 1, #295 of 1342 🔗

Viner and the RCPCH have been presiding silently on a longer term basis over the collapse of the school system due to the rise of ASD and other neurological impairments:

https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4318/rr-1

https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l4564/rr-10

According to the lates Northern Ireland school census ASD had risen to 4.2% by May this year (6.9% in Belfast), 64% of cases being complex – this is probably typical of the rest of the United Kingdom only with more up to date data. Neither the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health or the Department of Health and Social Care blink, while mainstream media represent it as good news. Of course, the present social chaos helps to distract from this terrifying breakdown.

82451 ▶▶ Kate, replying to John Stone, 1, #296 of 1342 🔗

Look up “Children’s Health Defense” Robert Kennedy Jr.

82481 ▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Kate, #297 of 1342 🔗

Yes, I sometimes contribute.

82417 nat, 2, #298 of 1342 🔗

We now have AI to detect breaches in social distancing !

https://www.facebook.com/7NEWSMelbourne/videos/286203415979421/?t=16

82421 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 12, #299 of 1342 🔗

Went to watch a cricket match yesterday and was amazed to see the stupid protection measures that have been put it place.

Players not allowed to use the changing rooms so had to get changed in cars and pitch side, not allowed to use the clubhouse except to go the toilet, no handshakes, regular hand cleansing. The other thing was these players were out in the blazing sun for 7 hours, so I bet there’s loads in the UK with heatstroke this weekend.

I was playing in 2009 during the Swine Flu pandemic, we had none of this. There were players who caught Swine Flu, but everyone went on as normal. I spoke to the players of my old team and it was the same story as most other people I’ve spoken too, none of them knew anyone who’s had COVID-19.

82463 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 2, #300 of 1342 🔗

Was there a Swine Flu in 2009 ?
Sorry but it entirely passed me by.

82476 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 3, #301 of 1342 🔗

Funnily enough I was watching with my Father-in-Law who was born in 1940, and he was completely unaware of the Hong Kong Flu epidemic in 1969 that killed 80,000 in this country!

82910 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to JohnB, #302 of 1342 🔗

My parents too were completely unaware about the 1969 flu and also the Asian flu (I think) in the 1950s. My Dad keeps saying that he doesn’t know how he has survived to the age of 78, in light of all the lockdown measures!

82483 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 1, #303 of 1342 🔗

Also, on this 540,000 Swine Flu infections v 310,000 COVID-19 infections.

83816 ▶▶▶ Emma Townsend, replying to karenovirus, #304 of 1342 🔗

My brother said he phoned the government helpline, but all he got was crackling.

82887 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to JohnB, #305 of 1342 🔗

I caught swine flu at the 2009 Reading festival, either that or I had an epic week long hangover… In any case, I don’t remember anyone being worried about it, I just got given some Tamiflu and was told to rest.

82433 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #306 of 1342 🔗

Gulf War Syndrome and Corona vaccines.

Summary from yesterdays comments:
Gulf War Syndrome from a 2001 Guardian Article:

The illness known as Gulf war syndrome looks likely to have been caused by an illegal vaccine “booster” given by the Ministry of Defence to protect soldiers against biological weapons, according to the results of a new series of tests.

Scientists in the United States found that symptoms of the illness were the same for service personnel who received the injections whether or not they served in the Gulf.

The common factor for the 275,000 British and US veterans who are ill appears to be a substance called squalene, allegedly used in injections to add to their potency. Such an action would have been illegal. Squalene is not licensed for use on either side of the Atlantic because of potential side effects.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2001/jul/30/internationalnews

A genuine report suggesting illegal injecting of troops.

I am not knowledgeable about what the current research gives as the reasons for GWS. It is appropriate to look at the unexplained harms experienced 10-15 years after the Gulf War.

GSK are trialling squalene in their coronavirus vaccine.

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/gsk-makes-adjuvant-available-to-coronavirus-vaccine-project

Squalene is found in shark liver.

82469 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #307 of 1342 🔗

https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/adjuvants/squalene/Jun_2006/en/

“The [WHO] Committee concurred that fears of squalene in vaccine-inducing pathological anti-squalene antibodies are unfounded. It did note, however, that the experience of squalene-containing vaccines has been primarily in older age-groups and recommended that as squalene-containing vaccines are introduced in other age-groups, careful post-marketing follow up to detect any vaccine-related adverse events needs to be performed.”

*”Post’marketing’ follow up”*

Yet the British Gov appear to be contradicted in relation to a FOI request.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/was_squalene_used_as_an_adjuvant

The conversation thread here shows documents that Squalene was used in Gulf War vaccines.

82472 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #308 of 1342 🔗

History is repeating:

“It is very understandable why inoculations were needed at that time for the protection of our troops, however, in my opinion, the drugs and vaccines that were used was a reckless combination by way of being too hastily selected and sanctioned through government pressure and panic of which the long term health effects were clearly unknown at the time.

For the establishment to simply hide behind Crown immunity to evade justice when troops later became ill en mass was a act of cowardice and betrayal as was the establishments underhanded claim that troops gave their full consent in theater to receive this secret drug cocktail”.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/was_squalene_used_as_an_adjuvant#comment-34807

82533 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Basics, 1, #309 of 1342 🔗

Then vegans wont want to be vaccinated? Interesting.

82545 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DressageRider, 5, #310 of 1342 🔗

There’s a vegan alternative or two. Essentially a huge flock of olive trees super compressed and refinded to within a nano particle of disappearing will give the same compound/emulsion. GSK are workin on it.

Flu vaccines use eggs. So yes. It is interesting from a vegan point of view.

Have to keep raising this Gulf War Syndrome because the damage has been done there already and it is clear no effort has be spared to evade responsibilty.

82578 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Basics, 2, #311 of 1342 🔗

Thanks for the info Basics, I must admit I had forgotten about Gulf War Syndrome. It seems like about a million years ago now.

82588 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DressageRider, 3, #312 of 1342 🔗

It’s so relevant to what we face. It came to my mind after thinking about angles our media are not looking from. Feels almost deliberately forgotten. The more I learn the more I understand how bad it has been for veterans and their families.

82601 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DressageRider, #313 of 1342 🔗

Commercially, it’s cultured from yeast. Used in a lot of skincare products.

82600 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #314 of 1342 🔗

SqualEne is also secreted by our bodies, it’s found naturally in our skin and is not very stable.

It’s possible they used squalAne, which is the hydrogenated version of squalene, therefore more stable.

For use in vaccines, it has to be emulsified with surfactants. Who knows what this does when injected, thus bipassing the liver.

82630 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, #315 of 1342 🔗

Squalene has been the questioned and likely cause of harms as at 2001. I do not know the development since. It occurs in our skin exceptionally small quatities. As far as I understand it is know to be toxic but not understood what quantity is considered toxic.
One vaccine, a flu vaccine, contains it – Fluad from 2019-19 season.

82651 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #316 of 1342 🔗

“Approximately 250,000 of the 697,000 U.S. veterans who served in the 1991 Gulf War are afflicted with enduring chronic multi-symptom illness, a condition with serious consequences” – google.

“Yet research suggests that as many as 33,000 UK Gulf War veterans could be living with Gulf War illnesses. It is therefore disappointing that there has been little meaningful research regarding best practice to alleviate some of the associated symptoms. ” – British Legion.
https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/things-to-do/campaigns-policy-and-research/campaigns/gulf-war-illnesses

Consider alongside covid 19 numbers of lives altered or dead. These men were in prime condition at the time of the invasion.

82437 iainclark, replying to iainclark, 14, #317 of 1342 🔗

Sue Denim. It’s taken months but I’ve finally got it.

I thought maybe her name was Jean.

82473 ▶▶ Basics, replying to iainclark, 3, #318 of 1342 🔗

That’s so brave admitting that you just got it – must be a relief!

82516 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to iainclark, 6, #319 of 1342 🔗

after reading your comment and doing a worrying amount of more thinking I too have just got it!

82758 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to iainclark, 3, #320 of 1342 🔗

Don’t worry.
For years I never realised the funny side of my sister’s schoolfriend’s name, i.e. Lena Cross…..

82913 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Lms23, 1, #321 of 1342 🔗

My friend’s brother is Nicholas Hoare.

82448 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 7, #322 of 1342 🔗

I’ve looked a little into the concept of “second wave”. It seems to be specific to the Spanish flu, which was thus named because the allied countries in WW1 didn’t want the public to know a nasty virus was around, so kept it as secret as possible, whereas neutral Spain had no such reservations, so told its people about the risks. The second wave occurred because infected troops returned home or were deployed to other countries, plus, crucially, nurses were deployed on the front line rather than at home, so there were few of them to look after sick civilians. Without anyone to care for them, the sick had to mingle. This is a basic understanding, so I’d welcome any learned elaborations or corrections. Whatever, I think we need to challenge the inevitability of the “second wave” as I suspect it’s the fear of this, and the political embarrassment should it occur after an easing of lockdown, which is keeping this government in its lockdown-ready mode.

82462 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Aremen, 4, #323 of 1342 🔗

I’m not sure anyone really knows but the Spanish flu was 10 to 100 times more deadly than Covid. In Samoa I believe it killed 70% of the population. Clearly at the end of WW2 there was unprecedented movement of peoples and millions were exhausted, suffering PTSD and malnourished or starving. The “second wave” was associated I think with the demobilisation of troops but that is from memory. The Spanish flu was a real “plague”.

82468 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to OKUK, 7, #324 of 1342 🔗

The world has had a sort of general herd immunity caused by massive international travel in the last 50 years or so. It’s not like it was at the end of WWI. Like those cases of European settlers/explorers causing indigenous populations to die in vast numbers. Or the Martians in War of the Worlds!

82470 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to OKUK, 1, #325 of 1342 🔗

I believe that, unlike COVID-19, it also caused high mortality among the young.

82525 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #326 of 1342 🔗

It did. Because the previous flu epidemic had been the winter of 1890-91, so anybody born after this winter would have had no exposure to it.

82575 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, 3, #327 of 1342 🔗

The problem with ‘Spanish ‘Flu’ is that it happened a hundred years ago – and a lot is not actually known about it – particularly the role of the preceding war and its after-effects, and whether the ‘two waves’ were both from the same viral infection.

It is interesting that Covid fantasists are using an infection from a hundred years ago – in very different circumstances – to bolster the Fear factor today.

82788 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 3, #328 of 1342 🔗

Also quite a lot of the deaths were from secondary bacterial infections for which they didn’t have antibiotics.

They possibly also killed a fair few people with megadoses of the new wonder drug of the time, which was aspirin.

82582 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to OKUK, #329 of 1342 🔗

If you root through the internet and youtube, bit chute, vimeo, brighten enough there are some really good documentaries and websites about Spanish Flu and they all debunk the mainstream beliefs about it.

There is a lot known about it, just not in the foreground.

82609 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to OKUK, 2, #330 of 1342 🔗

The second and third waves of Spanish flu were either different viruses or the original one mutated – not resurgences of the same infection.

Deliberately or otherwise, the media repeatedly uses “second wave” inaccurately to refer to resurgences of Covid, usually in localities that haven’t been exposed much or countries which locked down before the virus spread through enough of the population.

Another, probably better historic comparison to Covid was the “Russian flu” of the 1890s, which was also a coronavirus, with similar symptoms, and is probably now one of the viruses that cause the common cold.

82475 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Aremen, 5, #331 of 1342 🔗

I’ve posted this multiple times on here, but it’s widely believed the second wave of Spanish Flu was down to the misuse of Aspirin when treating those infected.

82497 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to JohnB, 10, #332 of 1342 🔗

Absolutely. A case of do as you’re told … the medical authorities know best.

From history.com:

“With no cure for the flu, many doctors prescribed medication that they felt would alleviate symptoms… including aspirin, which had been trademarked by Bayer in 1899—a patent that expired in 1917, meaning new companies were able to produce the drug during the Spanish Flu epidemic.

“Before the spike in deaths attributed to the Spanish Flu in 1918, the U.S. Surgeon General, Navy and the Journal of the American Medical Association had all recommended the use of aspirin. Medical professionals advised patients to take up to 30 grams per day, a dose now known to be toxic. (For comparison’s sake, the medical consensus today is that doses above four grams are unsafe.) Symptoms of aspirin poisoning include hyperventilation and pulmonary edema, or the buildup of fluid in the lungs, and it’s now believed that many of the October deaths were actually caused or hastened by aspirin poisoning.”

82511 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gossamer, 4, #333 of 1342 🔗

I remember watching a medical documentary about Aspirin and Heroin which were discovered within weeks of each other. Heroin was initially the safe drug that was prescribed to people, and Aspirin wasn’t as it was bad for people to use!

82581 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #334 of 1342 🔗

Ah but heroin was imported via some very dodgy political shenanegans, whereas Europeans had been chewing on willow twigs for centuries.

82577 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gossamer, 1, #335 of 1342 🔗

Wow, I didn’t know that!

82517 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Aremen, 3, #336 of 1342 🔗

Correct conclusion, but the troops returning from France had not yet been exposed to it, and they were the ones to get hammered. Quite right that the obsession with “second wave” comes from this period.

82553 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Aremen, 7, #337 of 1342 🔗

The CEBM group put the whole thing in perspective in this article :

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-epidemic-waves/

Currently, there is no evidence of any ‘second wave’ this year, and previous ancillary spikes are of dubious origin, given the number of infective agents involved.

82570 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, 5, #338 of 1342 🔗

I think the corona 2nd wave is a complete fabrication, designed to keep the lockdown measures in place and, for whatever twisted reason, to further damage our social fabric and the economy.

82607 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #339 of 1342 🔗

I’ve had so many conversations with frightened people who just blurt out, and it’s always the same way they speak, blurting it out, “There’s going to be a second wave!”, and when I ask them why they reply, typically, “because of these idiots who…[insert latest mass gathering]”. There is not a hint of self-doubt. It’s spoken as if beyond question.

82754 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Aremen, 2, #340 of 1342 🔗

Then the second wave should have happened by now.

Question: do all the people saying this believe the media and government unquestioningly on anything else?

82637 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #341 of 1342 🔗

Very true.We have a virus so deadly that we have a government actively seeking out new cases,with people who are blissfully unaware they have it.
Whatever this is about,it is not a deadly new disease

82453 Margaret, 7, #342 of 1342 🔗

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/U.K./johnson-scotland-two-week-staycation-a4520176.html

”All my happiest holiday memories are of holiday vacations here in the U.K., bucket and spade jobs or whatever and I thoroughly, thoroughly recommend it and I’m sure that people will have a great time over the summer”

He forgot to add, “ But whatever you do, don’t go to the beaches”

82457 Victoria, 29, #343 of 1342 🔗

Great headline in DM

Why Sweden, pilloried by the whole world for refusing to lock down – with schools staying open and no face mask laws – may be having the last laugh as experts say Stockholm is close to achieving herd immunity

82467 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 8, #344 of 1342 🔗

I understand that “liberals” are an easy target, but I do take exception to the “And Finally…” today. I am liberal and am also opposed to masks and the rest of this nonsense. So portraying people like me as someone who is hiding behind the sofa wearing a mask is sheer nonsense. If you want to encourage more Guardian readers like myself to consider the evidence more carefully, it might be a good idea not to call us names.
I suppose it’s my fault for thinking that this site is populated entirely by those who are open-minded. Besides, every person on the buses I rode today was wearing a mask. Unless they, too, are all liberals, you might want to check that characterisation.

I really don’t need anything else to be annoyed about.

82474 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to ConstantBees, 21, #345 of 1342 🔗

The Guardian is no longer “liberal” in any meaningful sense. It opposes free speech, promotes group rights, supports imprisonment of prople for their political views, opposes the universal right to defend yourself in a fair trial, and backs state control of the economy among many other illiberal tendencies.

I agree with Concrete that the old politics is over.

82486 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to OKUK, 4, #346 of 1342 🔗

An interesting perspective, OKUK, but one that seems full of buzz words that may mean something to regular readers of different publications, but also full of concepts that I am not familiar with, nor am I interested in.

It would be nice if we could find common ground in opposition to the lockdown, rather that attacking people of different political persuasions and life experiences.

83755 ▶▶▶▶ rational actor, replying to ConstantBees, #347 of 1342 🔗

If you want to oppose lockdowns and mask mandates, that is all the common ground you need. If you ability and willingness to consider evidence is contingent on people being nice to you I don’t see why anyone should pander to that. Your inability to laugh at yourself is also unfortunate.

This is why progressives ruin everything they touch: everyone has to agree with them all the time or they threaten to stop playing and take their toys home, so people who just want to get on with the business at hand end up being far too accommodating. Please stop whining.

82491 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 4, #348 of 1342 🔗

The old political parties are moribund, and that’s been true for a while now. Labour hasn’t represented indigenous labour for a generation or more, and the “Conservatives” have’t been meaningfully conservative in that time either. That doesn’t mean the underlying basic realities of left/right, radical/conservative no longer have any meaning, though of course the particular alliances and borders shift as always.

82549 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, 6, #349 of 1342 🔗

The Groan was captured by the establishment in about 2007, when the Scott Trust became a limited company.

It got rid of a clutch of genuine investigative journalists, took up a place on the ‘D Notice’ censorship mechanism and since then has been a channel for seeding its general output with security service/establishment propaganda.

For anyone who was politically awake (no matter what their persuasion), the constant attacks on Corbyn with falsehoods and sheer propaganda smelled to high heaven as a controlled initiative – and we are seeing the same sort of channeling with Covid-19 Scary Fairy fictions.

As an illustration – it was no accident that two ex-MI6 head honchos were funneled through the Groan to make up stories about Corbyn. Current Covid-19 fictions are pretty obviously coming out of the same ‘security’ stable. It ain’t about our security – that’s for sure, as anyone who pays attention will realise.

82713 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to OKUK, 3, #350 of 1342 🔗

“Liberal” is the wrong term for most on the Left, including the Guardian. They’ve become any but liberal, except when it comes to spending other people’s money, and sex.
The classic liberals, e.g. Dave Rubin, Carl Benjamin, i.e. those who defend free speech, prefer small government, freedom, etc, get called alt-right.

83116 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lms23, #351 of 1342 🔗

I used to subscribe to the air mail weekly Guardian here in Montreal, Quebec in the 1970s. I considered it moderately left of centre and enjoyed their anlalyses of international politics, their well written book reviews, film reviews, music, short subject articles. Not any more.

82479 ▶▶ hat man, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #352 of 1342 🔗

Don’t worry, that graphic probably came from the USA, where ‘liberal’ means something different. I feel sure most of us commenting on this site would be in favour of liberalism = freedom.

82508 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hat man, 2, #353 of 1342 🔗

It certainly came from the United States. The troops making their landfall are wearing American helmets.

82480 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #354 of 1342 🔗

I think the meme was made by an American.
They therefore meant “liberal” in today’s “Neo-Liberal” sense.

82482 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #355 of 1342 🔗

It’s amazing to see people catching up. This is how I’ve felt since 2000.

82485 ▶▶ Mark, replying to ConstantBees, 9, #356 of 1342 🔗

I would suggest you probably should just accept it as part of this site’s political philosophy, not take it personally, and disregard it. After all, Toby has never hidden his conservative political leanings, and he has repeatedly noted that his criticisms of lefty coronapanickers don’t apply to the many sceptics from the political left here, for whom we all have full respect.

Indeed, it’s reasonable to argue that lefty sceptics deserve more respect for resisting the herd, because it is clear (and Toby linked some studies showing exactly this early on), that there is a definite correlation, albeit far from total, between political stance and views on the coronavirus, with those on the right more likely to be sceptical and those on the left more likely to be behind lockdown and masks. This is broadly reflected in the way institutions have lined up, with for instance the most hardline anti-herd immunity and pro-lockdown etc from early on having been bodies like the Guardian, BBC, trade unions and academics, all heavily left wing.

Politics complicates the issue here in the UK, where a nominally “conservative” government panicked and went with the lockdown etc, resulting in quite a few party loyalists thinking it was their duty to support it. In the US it’s much clearer, because Trump has been pretty mixed in his messages, but Democrats have been hardline panickers and Republicans mostly much more sceptical.

That “And Finally…” poster is almost certainly American in origin, I’d say.

The argument that more Guardian readers would stay if Toby suppressed that kind of joke is pretty weak, because the average woke-ista would have conniptions over his views on the BLM scumbags anyway and probably call for him to be sent to prison merely for expressing them, if they could, anyway.

82536 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 15, #357 of 1342 🔗

It has been said before, but the old political order is over.We have an authoritarian government supported by an opposition who only oppose to say the government should have been more authoritarian.
They are assisted by all the broadcast media and printed press with only a few outspoken columnists not toeing the government line.
This is replicated worldwide so the enemy we face is not only our own government.
We desperately need and have for a number of years,is a party to stand up for the rights of the British people,and to protect us against the policies of foreign governments and corporations.

82556 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #358 of 1342 🔗

Yes, the old political order is over, but as I pointed out above, that mostly means that the parties are moribund and no longer represent what they say they represent, or anything much beyond the self-interest of the hierarchies. But this has been true for decades now, it’s just been made starkly clear by this coronapanic to people who hadn’t noticed. Those like me who were aware of being disenfranchised over the past few decades had noticed already.

82557 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 14, #359 of 1342 🔗

Multi-national corporations who forget there’s a line between advice and dictating policy; supra-national organisations whose first loyalty is to themselves (some branches of the UN, EU, NGOs, etc); and scientists who believe people exist for their wacky experiments are our enemies.

Personally, I believe the time has come to replace our entire establishment. Every last part of it has let us down and let us down badly. What I see happening in Melbourne today, I can see happening here tomorrow.

This transcends party politics, whether you are regressive, progressive, liberal, conservative or radical. Our personal liberty is now facing a threat far more pernicious than that from any foreign enemy. This threat comes from within and MUST be purged if freedom is to survive.

And without freedom, we truly have nothing.

82603 ▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #360 of 1342 🔗

All the above 3 posts (and Lisa from Toronto, below) more or less sum up my own feelings… I feel we (the general public) have been massively let down both by the so-called conservative government and so-called liberal left-wing media. I’m sure the current situation has just amplified fundamental problems that were already there, but I have to say that I was far too complacent or dismissive about them until this year.

And I really agree that this totally transcends (or should do) both party politics and ideological tribalism. I would far rather side with those whom I might not totally agree with about the EU, public services vs. privatisation, etc. but who have a healthy scepticism of lockdown and are willing to look up the facts for themselves , than with media “progressives” who enthusiastically embrace authoritarianism and the stifling of people’s lives and livelihoods if it suits their political/social agenda, and take “the science” as gospel even though it originates from the advisors of a Government they would normally criticise at every opportunity.

Really not sure who I would vote for now but I don’t think I’d want to give my vote to anyone who doesn’t give a solemn promise never to repeat the mistakes of 2020 again, whatever the circumstances!

82612 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Drawde927, 1, #361 of 1342 🔗

I think that Brexit actually shifted something in us all especially when we saw how politicians actively tried to cancel the vote.

Many Remain and Leave differ by only a small amount. There was much less polarisation than we thought. Many wanted change and the difference was just about how it was done. Of course arguments and tribes form out of the smallest things. Just look at the latest mask v anti-mask.

In all this though I have sensed that we want much less nannyism, better taxation (not necessarily more), better opportunity (not equity) and most importantly a political class that puts British people first. I’m not English. My OH is not European. We are both citizens though. And I believe in what this country can do.

But right now it’s cunt-try. And lots of it

82565 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #362 of 1342 🔗

In a nutshell!

82541 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, #363 of 1342 🔗

I would suggest you probably should just accept it as part of this site’s political philosophy,”

Depends whether you take the issues around Covid seriously – or just want to bang on about various unrelated political obsessions favoured by Daily Bile readers.

82551 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #364 of 1342 🔗

On the contrary, I think. This is Toby’s blog, and if he chooses to bowdlerise his opinions to maximise the number of people not offended, I think it’ll just end up being a chore for him, and lose any sparkle.

But it’s up to him, of course, in the end.

82734 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mark, 2, #365 of 1342 🔗

The government and its leader are not conservatives. Most would be more at home in the Liberal Democrat party (which is neither liberal or democratic, going by its actions during the Brexit shenanigans), and are probably only in the pretend-Conservative party because they stood more chance of being elected.
The current Tory government were elected by both conservative and Labour voters. Both sides are now thoroughly disgusted by the actions of the Cabinet so far. I cannot see any way that it can repair the damage it’s done to the country or to its reputation. Many conservative voters will simply refuse to vote in any future election, and Labour voters will go back to Labour, and I can’t blame them.

82537 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #366 of 1342 🔗

I’m a liberal too (or was – who knows what I count as now, far-right probably) and I thought it was funny! Not sure what that says about me… but we wouldn’t be left with any humour or comedy if we couldn’t risk offending anyone (cf cancellation of Fawlty Towers, Little Britain etc). I take your point about not alienating Guardian readers however.

82739 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #367 of 1342 🔗

The Guardian has been doing a very good job of alienating the majority of people in this country. There have been too many articles for too long about how racist we all are, and everything we like is either colonialist (HP sauce) or came from slavery (barbeques) and no, I’m not joking. Those were real articles.

82554 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #368 of 1342 🔗

I thought using the word liberal makes it much less postable, therefore less effective. I think using Brits would have been more useful.

82559 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #369 of 1342 🔗

Ah – American helmets ie US meaning of liberal, aparently – see posts below.

82573 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, #370 of 1342 🔗

Yes, the best UK equivalent would be “lefties”, probably.

82574 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #371 of 1342 🔗

I hear you. I would have called myself a liberal up until all of this nonsense, but now I’d label myself a classical liberal. I’ve always felt politically homeless as I’m super liberal in the social arena and more conservative in the economic arena. However, in these crazy times I’ve been keeping some strange bedfellows relative to my “old” self (of 6 months ago). I cancelled my Washington Post subscription, only keep the New York Times for the puzzles, have subscribed to the Wall Street Journal (not sure I’ll keep it as there’s a fair bit of bedwetting there) and The Spectator. I’ve become a “conspiracy theorist” or, as James Corbett calls us, REALISTS, as I can find no other explanation for how a handful of people locked down billions of people and trashed the world economy in mere months with nary any pushback. As others have pointed out, the cartoon is US in origin and, indeed, liberals in the US are overwhelmingly pro-lockdown, follow the “science,” make the vaccine mandatory. I’m just on whichever “side” cares about freedom, civil rights, and a return to the old normal. Take pride in being a liberal who is a critical thinker! Like others, I also think political labels are becoming less and less meaningful.

82580 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #372 of 1342 🔗

I think there are only 2 political labels – woke with is the standard idiocy and awake which all are on here.

82746 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #373 of 1342 🔗

Have you watched Karlyn Borysenko, who was a Democrat up till about a year ago? Now she’s an enthusiastic Trump supporter. I’m expecting her to appear with a MAGA hat any day now.
She’s a behavioural psychologist, I believe, who advises companies in team building, etc.

https://m.youtube.com/c/DrKarlynBorysenko/videos?disable_polymer=true&itct=CBIQ8JMBGAEiEwiF0rTkxY7rAhVMcRYKHX1qCpI%3D

https://gen.medium.com/ive-been-a-democrat-for-20-years-here-s-what-i-experienced-at-trump-s-rally-in-new-hampshire-c69ddaaf6d07

82705 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #374 of 1342 🔗

Many people now see negligible difference between the Tories and Labour.

Labour has moved much further to the left, and the Tories have followed them.

83855 ▶▶ Emma Townsend, replying to ConstantBees, #375 of 1342 🔗

It’s just a meme.

I’m a liberal – I believe in no censorship, free speech, free association, etc and lean left. Always have.

I don’t take memes literally – they’re just jokes after all. Nobody died here.

82487 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 10, #376 of 1342 🔗

Not sure if this has been posted before but a very interesting read,

https://covid19-country-overviews.ecdc.europa.eu/

Basically says that the whole of the EU & UK have infection levels on average of 24 / 100,000.
Makes a mockery of antisocial distancing, lockdown & mask wearing.

82489 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to smileymiley, #377 of 1342 🔗

The whole of the EU? Wow

Wonder what the US is

82504 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to smileymiley, 3, #378 of 1342 🔗

Morning smiley. The whole thing is a nonsense now. About saving face and/or increasing the income of the usual suspects…

82490 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 15, #379 of 1342 🔗

Hooray! Genius move on the skeptic dating forum.

I kid you not, I was on a date last Sunday and discussion of this farce came up and I went very light with my views but I don’t think she liked my “we haven’t we all been wearing masks during flu seasons in the past?…I mean, we’ve all “killed granny” by helping to spread the flu at some time in our lives.”

Haven’t heard from her since and I’m good with that for sure. She’s evidently locked in the fear and still won’t go inside restaurants.

82492 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Eddie, 5, #380 of 1342 🔗

Yet another thing to add to the very long list of things that makes me unattractive to men
Yay

82495 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Farinances, 4, #381 of 1342 🔗

I wouldn’t say that myself 🙂

82669 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Liam, 1, #382 of 1342 🔗

😘

82505 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 5, #383 of 1342 🔗

On the other hand, I’m sure I read somewhere on LS that scepticism is skewed male/female, with women tending to be more in favour of lockdown etc. So you might find you are in a seller’s market, as far as dating sceptic men is concerned…

82515 ▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Mark, 6, #384 of 1342 🔗

Nah, I reckon it’s about 50:50. A lot of blokes (including many whom I used to like and respect) are cowering behind the sofa for the foreseeable future.

82520 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Gossamer, 1, #385 of 1342 🔗

Well for my own personal experience the numbers of sceptics are just too small to make any plausible assessment. I just have a vague recollection of some sort of study on the topic being mentioned here. Might be mis-remembering of course. Certainly there are plenty of women commenting here.

82614 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Mark, #386 of 1342 🔗

I`m sure there are lots of women on here?

82678 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to watashi, 1, #387 of 1342 🔗

😉

82673 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, #388 of 1342 🔗

I think it’s prob more 50/50, but men are more likely to tell people about it/ obviously rebel (not wear a mask).

82735 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, #389 of 1342 🔗

Had a quick browse through some Mori pollling and looks like you’re closer to the truth than I was – there seems a fairly consistent tilt towards men being sceptical in most answers, but it’s just a few percent. Pretty close to 50/50. And I’m sure you’re right that there will be a difference in willingness to speak up that will tend to exaggerate what difference there is.

82878 ▶▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Farinances, #390 of 1342 🔗

I agree. I think unfortunately women are just more likely to be hesitant about speaking up for fear causing upset.

82890 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 2, #391 of 1342 🔗

i wish that was true in my case – I can’t keep my gob shut and bore strangers to death with how this is all a nonsense!! And pissed my family off also!! ha:-)

83042 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sue, 1, #392 of 1342 🔗

Likewise. Plus at work…they are really not OK with me airing my opinions.

82986 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #393 of 1342 🔗

In actual fact, on the antilockdown demos there is a preponderance of women – possibly because they are concerned about the vaccine and their children.

82540 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 2, #394 of 1342 🔗

Nah, only to sheepmen. It’s a very fast and effective way of weeding out unsuitable candidates.

82503 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Eddie, 11, #395 of 1342 🔗

I had a not dissimilar argument on TripAdvisor recently. Because I was sceptical of the efficacy of masks someone decided to trot out the Typhoid Mary example to try and shame me for not wanting to wear one. When I pointed out that we’ve all been a potential Typhoid Mary in our lives during flu seasons they couldn’t counter that. It’s as though they believe Covid is somehow different, and one person even claimed the comparison to flu is ignorant because the way you die from Covid is supposedly worse. Whatever is going on is in those people’s minds is nothing to do with analytical thinking, it’s availability bias created fear dressed up as morality.

82538 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Montag Smith, 3, #396 of 1342 🔗

Anyone who thinks that typhoid is similar to a Corona virus is pretty stupid – starting with the fact that it’s a bacterial infection.

82542 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 3, #397 of 1342 🔗

Ah but the scary headlines tend to overlook that minor point.

82675 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #398 of 1342 🔗

That’s what I use. How is giving flu to a granny any different? Yet nobody gave a f* about that last year

82680 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #399 of 1342 🔗

I have to say, though, I don’t know of anyone who ever died from influenza, and I’ve been around a while.
The Donald said the same thing, but knew six people who’d died from CV19, which is five more than me.

82882 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Lms23, #400 of 1342 🔗

You almost certainly do…it’s just that it’s wasn’t the primary cause of death so a Doctor wouldn’t necessarily have even thought to tell you or put it on the certificate.

82510 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 22, #401 of 1342 🔗

Guys,

I went to an independent Persian restaurant in Kingston last night called Narenj. It was 100% free of any Covid nonsense. Exactly the same as pre-lockdown. Not a hand sanitiser, sticker, arrow or anti-social distancing measure in sight. Oh it was wonderful!

From my observations, the bigger the brand, the more severe the restrictions and stupid measures.

So I say go forth and support small and medium sized businesses. Avoid using Am*zon and help local independent businesses do their thing.

Oh and on the subject of Amazon. Urrrgh to those TV adverts. Soooo sooo cringe and virtue signalling to the max.

You’d be forgiven for at least suspecting maybe it was Jeff Bezos who let the virus out of the lab to begin with! 😂

82534 ▶▶ RickH, replying to RDawg, 5, #402 of 1342 🔗

You’d be forgiven for at least suspecting maybe it was Jeff Bezos who let the virus out of the lab to begin with!”

Well – it’s not quite as straightforward as that – but the link is, indeed, big corporate money. It’s pretty obvious.

82535 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RDawg, 8, #403 of 1342 🔗

From my observations, the bigger the brand, the more severe the restrictions and stupid measures.

I’ve noticed that too. It must be their advisors because the little businesses are much easier targets for EHO bullying.

That or it’s pure virtue signalling!

82512 Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, 12, #404 of 1342 🔗

I posted this very late last night (I don’t really do things like sleep these days … can’t imagine why). But it’s too good to miss, so I’m reposting.

It looks like Australians are not as universally docile as their media would have us believe. A tremendous bit of backfiring on the part of 9 News Melbourne … just brilliant. And hilarious.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157805903537756&id=518267755

82752 ▶▶ nat, replying to Gossamer, 2, #405 of 1342 🔗

So funny! Made my day.

82513 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #406 of 1342 🔗

Good parody of the fear and safety culture we’re living in:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lcX9HBG4L34&t=10s

82532 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Montag Smith, 3, #407 of 1342 🔗

JP rocks!

82539 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #408 of 1342 🔗

He’s nailed the coronapanickers’ philosophy right there:

In any given situation, imagine the worst case scenario that could happen and then believe it’ll happen because you thought of it and then protect yourself from it .”

82568 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Mark, 2, #409 of 1342 🔗

We should all live in bungalows to eliminate the risk of falling down the stairs, something which a lot of people die from 😀

82579 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Montag Smith, 3, #410 of 1342 🔗

It’s not an urban myth.

Woman I knew, late 50s, and a few too many gins one evening, went upstairs and fell coming down, fractured skull and dead when she hit the bottom.

I found out when I called the office on the Monday morning for a scheduled call and couldn’t get hold of her.

82672 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Awkward Git, #411 of 1342 🔗

And a neighbour of ours (lived on our very small housing development, but we didn’t know him) who also fell down the stairs when drunk and was killed.

82518 adele, replying to adele, 2, #412 of 1342 🔗

Does anyone know of a compilation of irrefutable facts listed anywhere, with sources if possible? It would be very helpful if we had this to easily share.

82521 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to adele, 8, #413 of 1342 🔗

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

This is one that I send to people who want facts.

82523 ▶▶▶ adele, replying to Sarigan, #414 of 1342 🔗

Brilliant, thanks!

82531 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 1, #415 of 1342 🔗

This one is an essential source & the ‘InProportion’ site a useful addition.

82547 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 1, #416 of 1342 🔗

Plus the Oxford Centre for Evidence Based Medicine – Prof Carl Heneghan and colleagues.

82583 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #417 of 1342 🔗

Very much so, although it’s somewhat different in intent.

82530 ▶▶ Mark, replying to adele, 7, #418 of 1342 🔗

In addition to the Swiss site mentioned by Offlands, I’d also include this one:

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/

That first graph there currently is great ammunition, showing that after adjusting for population we’ve consistently had no greater deaths this year than in 2000. I like to ask coronapanickers if they remember the great Plague Year of 2000 when we locked down and all hid behind our sofas. No? Me neither.

82543 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 7, #419 of 1342 🔗

To advance the strategy further, the response is usually “ah but if we hadn’t locked down….”, which is when you roll out prepared info on Sweden, and other evidence that lockdowns generally did nothing.

82668 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mark, 2, #420 of 1342 🔗

Based on a computer model which has been likened to a random number generator, and when predicting an earlier pandemic (SARS? Swine flu?) was out by a mere 70,000,000%.

82608 ▶▶ steve, replying to adele, #421 of 1342 🔗

This article shows the current “Uk crisis” is actually 8th in the last 27 years In size of peak and that’s including all the extra people who died because of the NHS closing the doors

https://hectordrummond.com/2020/07/17/another-jaw-dropping-graph/

82528 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 2, #422 of 1342 🔗
82529 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 3, #423 of 1342 🔗

and … with all that rigmarole, she forgets to pay!

82546 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to kh1485, 5, #424 of 1342 🔗

Sickening waste of single use plastic. But I bet they are really proud of themselves.

82552 ▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to kh1485, 3, #425 of 1342 🔗

LOL! I think I’ll stick to the DIY haircutting clips!
I can’t wait for the video about ‘going to a tanning salon!’ 😀

82591 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 4, #426 of 1342 🔗

No disabled clients, obviously.
And all that plastic waste – makes me angry!

82625 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #427 of 1342 🔗

That’s another part of the hypocrisy. We were all being berated into using less plastic, etc, then CV19 comes along and it all goes out of the window.

82558 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 9, #428 of 1342 🔗

COVID-19 Vaccine Delivery – Gates – Quantum Dot Tags
Now, aside from using entirely novel manufacturing methods like messenger RNA (mRNA), DNA and nanoparticle genetic engineering technology, some of the COVID-19 vaccines being fast tracked to licensure also will be using novel vaccine delivery methods.

One new type of vaccine delivery, which the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has funded and promoted, uses a microneedle array rather than conventional injection. The microneedles are equipped with fluorescent quantum dot tags . The resulting invisible mark can then be read by a smartphone equipped with a special sensor.

“This is definitely something that Bill Gates has been pushing,” Fisher says. “He has been pushing not only that everybody in the world has to get all these vaccines, but also that governments need to be able to track [people’s vaccination status].

Certainly, this type of administration of a vaccine is a double bubble because not only do you get the vaccine in the person, but you also are able to track them … They’re determined to somehow implant, or in some way have our bodies carry our vaccination records …

They’re going for it all right now … the American people are going to have to really take a look and figure out, do they want to give up their civil liberties for an illusion of safety? It’s really an illusion of safety.”

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/08/09/barbara-loe-fisher-vaccines-covid-19.aspx

82562 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, 9, #429 of 1342 🔗

Yep, that’s what they want. The dots under your skin, like a tattoo, fluoresce under UV, so all you have to do is JUST stick your hand in there please, (scan) thank you, on your way. Down the disco, in the airport, at the supermarket, in the cinema, down the pub, at the entrance to your flat, before you go to sleep and when you wake up.

82569 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 3, #430 of 1342 🔗

Any idea why biometic tagging isn’t suitable for the same purpose? Iris scan or finger print. A digital register is also possible that way. Gates appears to have a preference for tattooing his reference into my skin. Why?

82567 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 6, #431 of 1342 🔗

A ‘nicotine patch’ with micro needles able to inject vaccinations and leave an invisible unique ‘tattoo’ (barcode) in the skin. In death camps of the third reich the nazis forced tattoos on the victims/prisoners.

I believe there is no need to comment further. Just keep in mind the sick smirk that Gates has in his interviews.

I wonder what life experiences stunted his deveolpment into a good human being. Was it before or after his obscene wealth was accumulated?

82687 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #432 of 1342 🔗

A tattoo needle penetrates 1.5 to 2mm into the skin. The microneedles would surely have to be at least as long, so I can’t see the patch theory working.

82697 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, #433 of 1342 🔗

You can see footage of the method if you search.

82774 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #434 of 1342 🔗

The needles are made of sugar and are 3D printed, they dissolve and leave the dots

82736 ▶▶ nat, replying to Victoria, 1, #435 of 1342 🔗

Many people mentioning this vaccine have been censored on the Big Tech platforms for “fake news” but it’s hiding in plain sight.

82563 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #436 of 1342 🔗

Quote of the day “Herd immunity is not a strategy but a proven scientific phenomenon, and to deny that is as silly as denying gravity. “ Martin Kulldorf,Harward

82564 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, 5, #437 of 1342 🔗

Gravity?? Huh, sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

82595 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 4, #438 of 1342 🔗

You’ll bee claiming that the earth isn’t flat in a minute. Jeez!

82749 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 2, #439 of 1342 🔗

Worse than denying gravity. Here is another quote, from Arthur Eddington:

The law that entropy always increases, holds, I think, the supreme position among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell’s equations — then so much the worse for Maxwell’s equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation — well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation.

The second law of thermodynamics is why everyone ends up at herd immunity, whether they like it or not.

82937 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to guy153, 1, #440 of 1342 🔗

Excellent point!

83339 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DressageRider, 1, #441 of 1342 🔗

It’s well-known however that the second law of thermodynamics is merely “guidance” compared to government diktat. So it certainly can’t be herd immunity.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare

Interesting how the government timed every intervention perfectly– masks, the Leicester lockdown, contact-tracing of half of 1% of those infected– to achieve those nice smooth curves, as if the process had been herd immunity. But of course that was never their strategy, and, as we know, 95% of the UK population are still susceptible (and about 1% of 80% of them will die if we take our foot off the brakes).

82566 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 7, #442 of 1342 🔗

The “Coronavirus and the Sun” article by Richard Hobday was an interesting read, but it made me think when I spotted the date it was written (March 10)!
If more people had taken this message on board back then, we might not have had the soul-destroying “stay at home or die” messaging, park closures, etc. during some of the best spring weather in decades.

82587 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Drawde927, 2, #443 of 1342 🔗

On the contrary,the social distancing measures had been so successful that the peak of the infection had already been reached.
London was a ghost town well before lockdown’which was a political measure implemented for whatever reason,it definitely wasn’t scientific
.Be wary of these revisionary pieces which I’m sure we will see many more of in the coming months.

82593 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 8, #444 of 1342 🔗

I agree entirely that lockdown was almost certainly pointless anyway, but a lot of people didn’t think/know that then. If the authorities (and opinion-forming media) had realised earlier that infection outdoors (especially in sunny weather) is incredibly unlikely, we might have escaped the most draconian aspect of the lockdown.

I’m lucky to live in a semi-rural area with plenty of footpaths where you can walk for ages without meeting anyone, and I also enjoy cycling, so took no notice of these regulations anyway, but I did feel for those stuck in urban centres with parks as their only open spaces, and unable to escape the scrutiny of neighbours (“I’m sure you’ve been out more than than once today!”)

Of course, the way things have been going over the last few months it feels like the authorities aren’t interested in any “science” that doesn’t suit their agenda, and the same was probably true back in March!

82572 Awkward Git, 19, #445 of 1342 🔗

Was out and about, wife fancied food out but our normal haunts have not re-opened and she did not fancy the inquisition at the door everywhere else we saw.

Ordered on the Nando’s website for collection as this is probably her favourite eat-out place. Our local one is still take-away only. We would buy a nice crusty loaf on way home and turn the chicken into a nice spicy chicken and salad sandwich for supper with beer – lovely.

Lots of stuff came back about masks, what to do at arrival at restaurants and so on.

Turned up about 10 mins early and sat in car park watching.

Apart from one pair of 20 something sanctimonious wankers with matching muzzle accessories everyone else went to the door unmasked, walked in, collected food and left.

Our time slot came (need to make sure it’s cooked, undercooked chicken is day on toilet), walked in unmasked, no questions, no strange looks, gave name, handed bag of food and left. Nothing like on their website.

Now all they need to do is sort out dine in.

82585 Che Strazio, replying to Che Strazio, 14, #446 of 1342 🔗

The images going round about what schools would look like are horrifying, add the masks, test-trace-isolate… this is full blown child abuse.

Many parents, in England and Wales, don’t realise that it is their legal duty to provide a child with an education by ‘regular attendance at school or otherwise’. (Art 7 of Education act 1996)

Parents have the right to withdraw the priviledge bestowed upon teachers to educate their children and regain control of their education.

The Home Education (NOT Home schooling) groups are big and have been exponentially growing for years. There are thousands of resources out there, including dedicated online support.
https://www.educationotherwise.org/index.php/current-legal-status

(I hope at some points teachers will realise that, if you can teach children online, there will be no need for so many educators!)

82594 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Che Strazio, 16, #447 of 1342 🔗

The importance of schools is social as much as educational.

In fact, I would argue that the main aspect of child abuse resulting from the closure of schools and lock-up in general has been the deprivation of normal social experience and the perversion of normal human interaction (anti-social distancing etc.)

82615 ▶▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to RickH, 7, #448 of 1342 🔗

I agree with you.
Months of lockdown will have had profound consequences on babies and children. It will not surprise me to see an explosion in stunted cognitive, verbal and communication skils. (To mention just but a few problems).

82586 DressageRider, replying to DressageRider, 6, #449 of 1342 🔗

There is a wonderful H M Bateman cartoon called Afraid to Live. If you don’t know this genius cartoonist then please do take a look:

http://www.hmbateman.com/gallery/strip-cartoons.htm

Basically, this timid man refuses all risky objects and to participate in risky events, such as a ride in a car, only to go to his bed and have the ceiling fall on him! Seems a very apt metaphor for today’s situation. You will have to scroll the cartoons on the link to find it.

82598 ▶▶ davews, replying to DressageRider, 25, #450 of 1342 🔗

This morning in our church Zoom service the preacher based his sermon on the Jesus walks on water parable (Matthew 14) and its risks relative to Covid. Afterwards I emailed him these comments:

I am a natural risk taker. When I was a design engineer I always had confidence my designs would work even though the worst case parameters in datasheets suggested they might not always do so. I am not aware I was ever caught out.

You look at the risks involved in the walking on water parable. The risk of drowning in this case would be pretty high there, probably 1 in 5 or so. And the chance of getting out of the problem by walking on water 1 in a million…

The chance, at current prevlance, of being near somebody infected with COVID is, pessimistically, 1 in 1,000. The chances of me catching it from them is say 1 in 10,000. The chance of me having a really bad episode of the illness or even dying is probably around 1 in 100,000. That is a risk I am prepared to take!

My reluctance in getting back to church is nothing whatsoever to do with risk but rather the dracononian rules our government has laid down which make it now not an enjoyable experience, personally or spiritually. Being made to sit well apart, not allowed to sing or chat
over coffee afterwards, and now even worse told to wear face masks, is not the sort of worship I wish.

Putting risks into perspective is what it is all about. I am not sure what Jesus would have made of the situation we are now in.

He has not replied yet, but I think this puts it in perspective.

82611 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to davews, 1, #451 of 1342 🔗

Very good reply.

82618 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to davews, 11, #452 of 1342 🔗

“I am not sure what Jesus would have made of the situation we are now in.”

There’s a bit in the New Testament (can’t remember where exactly) in which Jesus at least gives the virtue signallers a good verbal thrashing. He states that when you’re fasting, you shouldn’t be going around looking deliberately haggard and showing off how gloriously pious you are. Instead, you should just groom yourself, cut out the sanctimony and carry on as normal.

He evidently had no patience whatsoever with (to use a phrase I’ve seen on this forum) “performative piety.” I think of that whenever someone posts up a mask selfie and actively boasts about the discomfort.

82773 ▶▶▶ felix, replying to davews, 4, #453 of 1342 🔗

Agree entirely. It verges on sacrilege,our herding and muzzling in churches by the largely atheistic controllers who want us to worship gov.and believe everything it says. Will we every again be able to see the faces of our fellow parisioners, to sing or even to recite the responses without having a warm bacteria-rich mesh in front of our mouths? I doubt it. No, I will not partake in this anti-Christian ritual.

82701 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to DressageRider, 2, #454 of 1342 🔗

Absolutely agree, a wonderful cartoon.

“Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose”!
DavidC

82589 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #455 of 1342 🔗

Protests live now Dortmund

https://youtu.be/dUQWy8xrEDU

3100 watching.

82638 ▶▶ alw, replying to Basics, 5, #456 of 1342 🔗

We need civil disobedience and protests in UK

82671 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to alw, 4, #457 of 1342 🔗

We’re doing our bit for disobedience here.
The protests are coming. People need to link their protest groups together. We’re still too disparate so comunication isn’t as effective as we need.

82590 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #458 of 1342 🔗

48 more cases in Scotland announced on Sunday.

At this rate we’ll be waiting forever for Herd Immunity.

82605 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #459 of 1342 🔗

The question that no one will ask her during her terrify the nation address tomorrow is ‘Is this the first time these 48 people have been tested?’ If answer is no then follow up question is ‘When were they last tested and if so was it negative?’. I suspect answer will probably be yes to first of these so once again a panic situation being created about 48 people who potentially became infected months ago and their immune system fought it off almost immediately with no symptoms.

82655 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #460 of 1342 🔗

48 is a terrifying number. Only hope is a stricter than Melbourne lockdown , indoor mask wearing and glove wearing.

82779 ▶▶ felix, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #461 of 1342 🔗

We don’t even know what they are testing for. There will be no such thing as “zero cases” if fruits like pawpaws test positive for covid19. It’s a control tap which can be turned on or off at will by the World Economic Forum’s proxies. Heaven help us all.

82592 RickH, replying to RickH, 24, #462 of 1342 🔗

I was struck by this passage from ‘a Swedish doctor’s perspective’ (referenced above) :

“In total covid has killed under 6,000 people in a country of ten million. A country with an annual death rate of around 100,000 people. Considering that 70% of those who have died of covid are over 80 years old, quite a few of those 6,000 would have died this year anyway. That makes covid a mere blip in terms of its effect on mortality.

That is why it is nonsensical to compare covid to other major pandemics, like the 1918 pandemic that killed tens of millions of people. Covid will never even come close to those numbers.”

Seems a pretty good summary of the situation underlying the stupid Scary Fairy Dance.

82645 ▶▶ IanE, replying to RickH, 3, #463 of 1342 🔗

Yes – if only the MSM would take this up!

[If you are reading this, BBC, it would be a great chance to destroy your hated enemy, Johnson! Hint, hint.]

82781 ▶▶▶ felix, replying to IanE, 1, #464 of 1342 🔗

When has the MSM ever troubled the clowns who are running this psy-op?

82596 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 13, #465 of 1342 🔗

Based on the inevitable “second wave” that they’ll base entirely on Annual Winter Flu numbers, along with talks about the vaccination being ready for November/December – I have a theory that whether Christmas is under lockdown or not will be based on some arbitrary vaccination take-up percentage. “We need x% of the country to be vaccinated otherwise we won’t be able to remove the lockdown for Christmas.” You think the harpies are bad now? Wait until your refusal to be vaccinated with god knows what results in ruining “their Christmas!”

82599 ▶▶ DRW, replying to John Galt, 4, #466 of 1342 🔗

Ironically if they try that and it has to be stopped because of bad side effects (as with several other rushed vaccines) with no compensation then that might finally wake up the sheeple.

82604 ▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to DRW, 3, #467 of 1342 🔗

Yeah, you could be right. However, the worry is that they’ll just blame the side effects on Covid rather than the vaccine. “Oh yeah, so we’ve added these symptoms to the list…”

82606 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to DRW, 3, #468 of 1342 🔗

You think they’ll admit to or allow people to know about bad side effects, or if any will be picked up quickly enough??

82634 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Lms23, 1, #469 of 1342 🔗

It would probably be initially brushed off. But if millions were effected then I expect word would get round.

82643 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to DRW, 2, #470 of 1342 🔗

Might thin the ranks of sheeple a bit too!

Every little helps.

82647 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to DRW, #471 of 1342 🔗

I think you mean ‘affected’!

DavidC

82650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to DavidC, 2, #472 of 1342 🔗

Ah yes, my mistake.

82661 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to DavidC, 2, #473 of 1342 🔗

Or even “afflicted”….

82664 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, 4, #474 of 1342 🔗

Most people don’t know about the ineffectiveness and bad side-effective effects of statins, though they have been well-publicised for the last 12 years.

82684 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, #475 of 1342 🔗

But statins haven’t been pushed as widely and aggressively as this will soon be.

82711 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to DRW, 1, #476 of 1342 🔗

So true but statins have been subversively ‘pushed’ on to anyone whose cholesterol levels are even slightly off. My Dad was on statins for a while and still being precribed for them after illness and being peg fed liquid nourishment directly into his stomach, hence his whole food intake was completely different and with no fats!

Mum told me about problems Dad was having with cognitive functions, we took him off them and he improved markedly, albeit he did develop a couple of forms of dementia later but at least they weren’t being exacerbated by statins. I won’t touch them – if there’s ever a problem with cholesterol I will modify my diet.

DavidC

82657 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 6, #477 of 1342 🔗

The plain fact is that people stupid enough to accept an under-tested vaccine that has, with this process of indemnification, been shown to be suspect from the start, will not be sharp enough to make the necessary connections.

82597 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 8, #478 of 1342 🔗

James Delingpole’s June 1, 2020 interview with Dr. John Lee is worth watching again. Dr. Lee just said, around minute 37:10, that there are a hundred thousand million times more viruses than the number of cells in our body.

82644 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to richard riewer, 5, #479 of 1342 🔗

I read an article a couple of weeks ago, research shpowing that we breathe in something like 100 million viruses every day, around 1500 different ones in circulation in the air. That’s before one considers bacteria, fungal spores, pollen etc etc.

82617 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #480 of 1342 🔗

When will it end? Sanity will not come from the Western European states. It will most likely come from one of the Eastern European Ex-Communist states. And most likely from a semi-corrupt half-authoritarian state. The leader of that state X, would find that reporting positive Covid-19 cases will not result in anything good for his country. On the contrary.
Even if the pandemic has died down, hospitals not overflowing and the total deaths normalized again, the country is not rewarded for reporting current C-19 cases. What can be done? Fiddling the figures and cover up. It has been done for ages in reality and we have it mentioned even in fiction (Thomas Mann’s “Death in Venice”).
The leader will naturally inform WHO and EU that tests and counting of C-19 cases is ongoing. But either the tests are stopped or easily fiddled with ( PCR tests) just returning neg results. A sudden improvement of figures and as reward the country is not quarantined. A flow of businessmen and tourists will come into the country. There they can enjoy a mask less non-social distancing society and how they are going to enjoy it.
In the worst-case scenario, someone contracts a sniffles during such a visit. This could always be blamed on meeting a Chinese in one of the international airports and anyhow impossible to prove contagion in court. After sometime the neighbouring countries will imitate this success story. Finally, the ruined Mediterranean tourist nations will be the first dominoes to fall.
Covering up has been done recently. In Ethiopia. A cholera epidemic was not reported to WHO but classified as childhood diarrhoea. The health minister in charge of this operation was a certain Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. Reported being promoted to Director of WHO and in charge of the C-19 response.

82681 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #481 of 1342 🔗

Former communist Eastern European countries will be wary of risking whatever handouts are coming their way from the richer countries of the EU. I read somewhere about a proposal from Spain some months ago that handouts should be bigger for those countries “worst affected” by the crisis. Advisable to play the victim. Much less hard work than dealing with flows of businessmen and tourists.

82785 ▶▶▶ felix, replying to guy153, #482 of 1342 🔗

strangely, people in ex-“Communist” countries who now find themselves in the EU seem very trusting of their proxy governments in covid times. did they learn nothing of living under tyrannies?

82619 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #483 of 1342 🔗

Dr John Lee was recently interviewed by Brendan O’Neill on Spiked 11 days ago, July 28, 2020. Has not changed his tune.

82652 ▶▶ RickH, replying to richard riewer, 3, #484 of 1342 🔗

John’s just stating a simple fact. Which is why PCR testing is such a suspect process, involving the initiation of a chain of events to supposedly link a particular bit of RNA debris to an infective agent.

82719 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to RickH, 2, #485 of 1342 🔗

There’s also no indication of the number of amplifications, whether the same number is being applied nationally or whether they just keep going until they find something or nothing. It’s not even for the specific VIRUS, it’s just for (a) fragment(s) of genetic material which may not even be unique to SARS-Cov2.

DavidC

82787 ▶▶▶▶ felix, replying to DavidC, #486 of 1342 🔗

yup, testing is a godsend to the globalists now they have temporarily run out of sick people to kill off. that’s why we’re being frightened by the constrant refrain of the controlled MSM, how many new ‘cases’ there are. It’s hopeless. And the idiots want to get tested…

82621 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 35, #487 of 1342 🔗

Just been to a beefeater for lunch with the father in law who we haven’t been able to visit for six months. He is disabled and lives 100 miles away.
Despite sensible guidance on restrictions and not having to wear a mask- wouldn’t have gone there if we did- it was dead. I would guess 80 percent quieter than normal.
The government lies and panic have killed the economy.
On Friday I was in Truro, Cornwalls biggest shopping town, not to shop as I won’t until masks are abolished, but for a couple of pints in my local. Never seen the place so dead. You could have fired a shotgun in the main shopping street and not hit anyone.
I’m not sure what was sadder, the muppets wearing masks when outside when not in shops, or the shops inundated with rules on masks and queuing when empty.
Well done Boris, head muppet.

82629 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John Ballard, 22, #488 of 1342 🔗

Lets hope that the bastard masks are suffocating what little life shops have left in them and they fight back and get the bastard government to drop the rules on compulsory face nappy wearing.

82623 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 7, #489 of 1342 🔗

Most of the studies that were presented to the governmnet were not Peer Reviewed.

82646 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to richard riewer, 2, #490 of 1342 🔗

Like the Lancet ones…?

82700 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Castendo, 5, #491 of 1342 🔗

I don’t think the Imperial College modelling was peer reviewed, it’s insane!

82756 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Moomin, 2, #492 of 1342 🔗

Common sense alone should show that model was pure BS.

82750 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Castendo, 3, #493 of 1342 🔗

Which ones? I can think of at least one Lancet study that not only was peer-reviewed but also retracted…

82626 Will, replying to Will, 2, #495 of 1342 🔗

Strikes me as very similar to a Labour policy at the last election….

82632 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Will, 7, #496 of 1342 🔗

“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

82628 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 22, #497 of 1342 🔗

Would somebody just fucking shoot Andy Burnham? Thank you.

82635 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #498 of 1342 🔗

Waste of a good bullet; hemp, on the other hand, is re-usable!

82663 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to IanE, 4, #499 of 1342 🔗

Well, I’m all for sustainability of course.

82753 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to IanE, 1, #500 of 1342 🔗

No, no. Once a rope has been shock loaded, it can’t be reused.

82771 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, #501 of 1342 🔗

“But, during the emergency period…”

82985 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, #502 of 1342 🔗

Yep, we need to carry out many experiments, to accurately determine a rope’s longevity.

82775 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Nick Rose, #503 of 1342 🔗

Dianne won’t mind, she’s gonna get tied with that hemp and given concrete boots (size 8, both left foot) and left to tread water under Westminster bridge like a true Hackney Hippo 🦛

82688 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #504 of 1342 🔗

A troubled individual. 100% of his interviews are from behind a laptop.

Bedwetter.

82631 IanE, replying to IanE, 12, #505 of 1342 🔗

More and more, it feels to me as if this is all about Carbon Zero. We are to be fed and clothed, housed, ‘educated’ and permanently anchored in tiny little boxes – all services supplied by internet with the only cars available being hopelessly expensive, limited range electric cars whilst public transport has been destroyed – other, of course, than the pointless and insanely expensive HS2.

Who runs the country? Bozo the clown prince!

82636 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to IanE, 1, #506 of 1342 🔗

But true carbon zero for buildings would mean more planning restrictions, not fewer.

82641 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to DressageRider, 1, #507 of 1342 🔗

If you want to build a carbon zero home, solar powered of course, with EV charging points and water reclamation, there is a big rubber stamp getting inked up right now. Anything else…forget it.

83143 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Two-Six, #508 of 1342 🔗

How about a Carbon Zero government?

82653 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to DressageRider, 3, #509 of 1342 🔗

No, it would mean SMALLER buildings and removal of the chance for local authorities to stop said developments.

Carbon Zero does not, by the way, mean reducing CO2 production; it means more chances to transfer wealth from the poor to the super-rich.

82670 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to IanE, 1, #510 of 1342 🔗

The next big thing is turning office blocks in industrial estates and shops in town centres into sustainable living flats. 15sq meters of space for a single person is what they think is sustainable.
I am not too sure what you mean about the transfer of wealth thing,can you elaborate?
Carbon taxes?

82696 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DressageRider, #511 of 1342 🔗

Not if the objective is Smart Cities, build more in cities, flattening vast areas to build high rise building, then move everyone from the countryside which become designated nature sites to offset carbon.

82791 ▶▶ felix, replying to IanE, 2, #512 of 1342 🔗

er no, the World Economic Forum runs the country, any country, the elected puppet shoving the Davos doctrine down the throat of each and everyone one.

83138 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to IanE, #513 of 1342 🔗

Greta Thunberg’s handlers.

82633 swedenborg, 4, #514 of 1342 🔗

https://twitter.com/alexkx3/status/1292389617300365312/photo/1
This is an interesting US chart. COVID Deaths as a % of State Population by latitude of state capital. One can see the enormous spike in New York in March April and the death spikes later in the Southern states but much lower. But why Louisiana spiking early like the Northern states? Somebody gave the answer. Mardi Gras in New Orleans 25th Feb. Lots of New Yorkers down there. Ideal for spread.

82640 RickH, replying to RickH, 2, #515 of 1342 🔗

The term ‘liberal’ has so many contradictory meanings that it has become meaningless.

But when I see the term ‘Planning Reform’, coupled with ‘red tape’, I reach for my metaphorical gun : it usually means cutting out that noisome process called ‘democratic process’. The Blair government embarked on it, driven by pressure from the big business of the development industry, and on the basis of highly suspect ‘review’.

I haven’t had time to read this consultation document in detail yet, but, given the record of this lot on democracy and civil liberties, I’m already smelling those sewer rats again.

I spent a number of years chairing a planning committee at one time in my life, and have a pretty fair grasp of the complex issues involved – where the dictatorial NIMBY becomes the campaigner against restrictions on ‘freedom’ in two successive breaths.

The thing is – true democracy involves conflict and its resolution, not simplistic diktat from on high, or simple concessions to vested interests and pressure groups.

82656 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, #516 of 1342 🔗

Liberal means “loose with rules” or “permissive” or the opposite of authoritarian. In a political way it doesn’t mean much to me. Liberal has a totally different meaning in the USA. The Liberal bit in the The Liberal Democrats don’t mean politically liberal to me in the way it means something to people in the USA, It’s just its a term that sort of doesnt mean anything to me. If anything, I read Liberal in an orwellian double-think kind of way naturally anyway and I read authoritarian. What they say is nearly always an inversion of the truth.

82660 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, #517 of 1342 🔗

I think we make the same point. The term has lost any clear and defining meaning in the political sphere.

82666 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, 1, #518 of 1342 🔗

Humm I guess so. Especially as we are now so far away from anything even resembaling any kind of freedom, or liberty.

82693 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RickH, #519 of 1342 🔗

Read Barbara Tuchman’s ‘The Proud Tower’.

82642 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 12, #520 of 1342 🔗

Experience From Other Countries Show Lockdowns Don’t Work
https://www.aier.org/article/experience-from-other-countries-show-lockdowns-dont-work/

The idea of closing down society with draconian lockdown policies is an experimental concept that is not based in reality. They are tools to be considered to slow the spread of cases so that hospitals can prepare and should not be viewed as a way to eliminate the virus. Never before has any pandemic been countered by shutting down all of society. The problems associated with such a policy quickly outweigh any of the marginal benefits. Furthermore, preventing cases is far more difficult than preventing deaths. In fact, it may be near impossible given how contagious the virus is and how lockdowns have had little effect while decimating society. A better response would be mitigating deaths and severe cases by focusing on increasing hospital capacity. That is something that we can actually control. Attempting to control a force of nature is not something that can be done easily, if at all. Support a proper response by empowering the healthcare sector, not politicians and bureaucrats. It is foolish to attempt to solve a medical problem with politics.

82658 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #521 of 1342 🔗

The healthcare sector has already been empowered, that’s why we’re in this mess.

82659 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to richard riewer, 6, #522 of 1342 🔗

Idiots have been empowered WAY beyond their abilities too. Millions and Millions and Millions of them.

82698 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to richard riewer, #523 of 1342 🔗

No. The healthcare sector (politically managed) was told what to do, and they did it. My observation is that they did it efficiently – i.e. crass stupidity executed to the letter.

It was the empowerment of Johnson and the associated Tory spiv cadre that got us into this mess. Blame where blame is due – and that blame partly falls on (a) anyone who voted for Johnson as Party leader when his track record (or lack of) was well known and (b) do. anyone who voted for him in the GE.

The suicide was democratically formed – an elimination of democracy by vote.

82721 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to RickH, #524 of 1342 🔗

That´s what is called the 1933 protocol.

82726 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 7, #525 of 1342 🔗

I never voted for Johnson having experienced his time as London mayor but I don’t think you can blame those Tory voters for this.No one even in their wildest nightmares could have envisaged this.
Labours response would have been the same if not worse.
I agree the buck stops with this government despite external pressure.They were elected to serve the British public and instead have enslaved them

82751 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #526 of 1342 🔗

The same I suspect. Or as near as dammit.

82807 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #527 of 1342 🔗

The same, but I suspect they would have enjoyed it more. Completely agree that this has nothing whatsoever to do with party politics. I can’t forgive the current government but I see nothing whatsoever to convince me that labour would have done any better.

82743 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, #528 of 1342 🔗

And (c) do. all those from “opposition” parties who’ve not said a dickie since lockdown was announced, except for “should have been harder and earlier”.

The healthcare sector has been politically managed ever since 1948. Time to leave the party political bullshit behind Rick, the entire establishment is guilty and/or unfit for purpose. ALL of it.

82745 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #529 of 1342 🔗

Oh, and (d) do. anybody who voted for those “opposition” parties represented in Parliament.

At least I voted Brexit Party, who aren’t represented in Parliament. My conscience is clear. However, I think your hatred of the Conservative Party is clouding your logic.

82778 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to RickH, 1, #530 of 1342 🔗

Those who work in the healthcare sector are responsible for their own actions like anyone else. If you are ordered to take actions that will obviously lead to harm and you carry them out anyway you are responsible for that harm at least as much if not more so then those giving you the orders.

82654 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 10, #531 of 1342 🔗

The Droplets? Droplets drop, they don’t stay suspended in air. It’s called Gravity. Newton anyone? So, there you are, walking around the supermarket stepping on virus droplets and distributing them everywhere along the floor on the bottom of your shoes. Then outside on the sidewalk, then in your car, your homes, a café, garden center, etc. They follow you everywhere. Arrghh!

82665 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to richard riewer, 13, #532 of 1342 🔗

Mandatory foot masks…

82714 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sam Vimes, #533 of 1342 🔗

Bamboo? Crepe soles? Spongy rubber? Hobnail boots? Dutch shoes? Sandals for the hippie bedwetters. Guccis?

82744 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to richard riewer, 1, #534 of 1342 🔗

Since 1934 it has been known that respiratory aerosol droplets either drop down or evaporate within seconds (use your faviourite search engine to look for “Wells evaporation–falling curve.” This whole “the Science” bullshit is utterly non-scientific! 😉

82682 IanE, replying to IanE, 11, #535 of 1342 🔗

“Quarter of a million over-50s ‘will never work again’ after coronavirus” – something that always struck me as equally damaging collateral as the consequences for school/university-leavers looking for jobs! Now, if only that were to include Bozo and Handjob.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/quarter-million-over-50s-will-never-work-coronavirus/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

82699 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to IanE, 10, #536 of 1342 🔗

If true this is heartbreaking and devastating. When will people wake up and start to push back?

82720 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Moomin, 9, #537 of 1342 🔗

There is no sign of such.

All the complacent self-congratulation about VE Day blown away by later generations in six short months.

Quite an achievement – if you like that sort of thing.

Me? I’m f.ing livid on behalf of my parents and grandparents.

82729 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 3, #538 of 1342 🔗

Seconded.

82912 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to RickH, 1, #539 of 1342 🔗

Me too!

82723 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Moomin, 4, #540 of 1342 🔗

Furlough winding down might encourage some focus.

82730 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, 7, #541 of 1342 🔗

Furlough ending and P45s will be the wake up call. I’ve said this all along.

82733 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #542 of 1342 🔗

There will be more job losses in the pipeline, I seriously doubt that the mandatory muzzling has gone down well in boosting visitor numbers. Plus furlough ending soon. Very worrying.

82765 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #543 of 1342 🔗

My pitchfork is sharpened.

82837 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #544 of 1342 🔗

I think its not just you whose your pitchfork that’s sharpened. There’s probably more…..

82704 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to IanE, 10, #545 of 1342 🔗

This is something which affects my wife & myself directly.

She lost her job in April and has been searching for similar work since 22 April, the day she was told that her contract was to be terminated, the work she was doing was site based, and could not really be carried out remotely.

It is grim out there, she applies for work most days, has had a few telephone or Zoom type interviews, but non of these opportunities have gone any further.

Admittedly we are not close to any of the big conurbations, but she is willing to travel, possibly up to two hours each way per day.

Employment agencies she has got work from in the past are admitting that companies are just not looking for people, indeed, agency staff themselves are still furloughed.

55 years of age and on the scrap heap.

82795 ▶▶ felix, replying to IanE, 1, #546 of 1342 🔗

stage 2 will involve getting ride of these useless eaters

82683 PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 9, #547 of 1342 🔗

Oxford University: Hydroxychloroquine ”could still have benefit against Covid-19′
Hydroxychloroquine is being ‘discarded prematurely’ and could still have benefit against COVID-19, leading researchers from University of Oxford say undertaking a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study of the antiviral medication. They aim to enroll 40,000 healthcare workers to determine if hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine can prevent COVID-19 ( COPCOV).

“Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have a very good safety record in the treatment of malaria and rheumatological conditions over the past 60 years. Billions of treatments have been given,” said Professor Sir Nick White, COPCOV Co-Principal Investigator.

“Concerns that they might cause heart arrhythmias are not supported by the evidence from the randomised trials in COVID-19, and in rheumatological conditions hydroxychloroquine has actually been shown to reduce the risk of heart arrhythmias. There is very strong evidence that the doses being evaluated for prevention in the COPCOV study are safe,” White added.
‘I don’t think there’s been a more politicised and controversial medicine than hydroxychloroquine.”
Reported at:
https://thenationalpulse.com/politics/h … ematurely/
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/researc … 19_1346544
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53679498

82747 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to PowerCorrupts, 2, #548 of 1342 🔗

My father knew Sir Nick White and I have met him on a number of occasions. Head completely screwed on the right way and hugely inspirational man. He will be listened to I think.

82856 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to PowerCorrupts, #549 of 1342 🔗

As per previous LS article:

82702 Riffman, 4, #550 of 1342 🔗

Just ‘back’ from prison after daring to go to a country with 2.5m people and 63 infections (currently with none in hospital). Last few days were tough but a ‘normal’ and very pleasant breakfast this morning in Wetherspoons with no pressure to confirm to any sort of nonsense. Didn’t bother with the tracing form as no bother there either. Thank you WS’s.
Full masking in Lidl unfortunately, but glad to see nothing in street unlike Tenerife. Cyprus next month with a dreaded poker up my nose beforehand to keep somebody happy..oh well 😳 . Any imprisonment after that will be back burner.
Keep smiling. Increasing number of common sense articles out there. Latest from Ivor Cummins terrific sense .

82703 richard riewer, 3, #551 of 1342 🔗

On August 7, 2020 The Richie Allen Show, at minute 31, announced a news bulletin from the Foreign Office. Their cat has retired and will soon be chasing small rodents in the countryside.

82709 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #552 of 1342 🔗

Corona street funiture increase.

Those 2 metre queuing stickers on pavements. A further development around at least the wider city centre has seen new stickers placed on pavements beside pedestrian crossings. The message tells people not to press the crissing button after 9pm or before 7am(?).

These stickers are white. A waste of money and greta of arcs environment. They will scuff and be worn away by mid winter.

The only point as far as I can see is to visually alter the city environment during corona measures. To leave no part of our experience untouched by control.

82728 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 1, #553 of 1342 🔗

That could be to try to stop needlessly stopping the traffic or perhaps saving carbon, a vehicle will make more carbon when pulling away than if it kept going. Perhaps switching the lights on and off uses or makes more carbon, somehow. Bad for dolphins anyway.

82732 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Basics, 2, #554 of 1342 🔗

Many of those crossings are on an automatic time sequence anyway – button pressing does nothing except encourage pedestrians to hang around and wait.

82712 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 7, #555 of 1342 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8608301/amp/DAN-HODGES-new-working-class-voters-getting-schools-vital-Brexit.html

Dan Hodges veers towards the sceptic argument generally. But the most depressing part of this article is the seemingly general acceptance of Joe Public that the “second wave” is inevitable if not already here. This is the result of drip drip drip MSM propaganda that – as everyone here knows – bears little scrutiny. Difficult to see how our facts can have any sustained cut through when these ideas are so deeply ingrained.

82718 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to LGDTLK, 2, #556 of 1342 🔗

Yes. I find it frustrating that, even when common sense is being weilded, people still talk as though there’s a viable virus circulating in our midst. It’s an unthinking habit, but the record needs to change!

82725 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #557 of 1342 🔗

Sometimes I get pulled up for being scathing about individuals’ intelligence in swallowing the propaganda.

But perhaps that’s right – the blanket distortion is remarkable. If you’re not used to looking hard at such narratives, how do you get your bearings?

82738 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to LGDTLK, 6, #558 of 1342 🔗

If you repeat something often enough they will believe. Once they have belief, facts are irrelevant.
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”
Joseph Goebbels .

82899 ▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to Polemon2, 1, #559 of 1342 🔗

That sent a shiver up my spine……..

82716 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #560 of 1342 🔗

Hmmmmm!

Research found that around one in three routine consultations for outpatients could be done online, saving the NHS nearly half a billion pounds every year.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/08/moving-hospital-appointments-online-would-save-million-days/

A NHS Trust has conducted 8,700 virtual appointments for over 1,000 Covid-19 patients in just two months, as the pandemic allowed the “red tape” around healthcare innovation to be cut.

….. “The culture has changed, (patients) don’t want to come to hospital (as) they perceive this institution as a dangerous place and, actually, rightly so,” said Dr Andrew Barlow, Clinical Lead for Respiratory Medicine at the Trust.
….. Doctors have cut their appointment times from 12 minutes down to one per patient , freeing up more time to spend with those who require more specialised care, they said.

  • “Hello Mrs Smith. Can I just check your name, date of birth and postcode? ………..”
  • “That’s fine. How are you?”
  • “A lot better, thank you doctor.”
  • “That’s excellent. Goodbye.”
82724 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #561 of 1342 🔗

There has been a problem about the way in which services are used – any time in A&E shows that.

But this is no way to re-balance the system.

82727 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, #562 of 1342 🔗

Cheezilla I think this is the same doctor referred to in The Telegraph piece.

https://finder.bupa.co.uk/Consultant/view/72121/dr_andrew_barlow

82783 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #563 of 1342 🔗

Yes, works at West Hertfordshire Hospital.

Wankock’s job is to convert as much of the NCS to AI as possible. Here’s more from the DT article:

Last year, Matt Hancock said that the current model of outpatient services is “outdated, wasting too much time and causing too much inconvenience for patients”.

In April, Sir Simon Stevens, chief executive of NHS England, said that the health service should “lock in” changes made during the coronavirus pandemic to reduce face-to-face outpatient appointments by a third by 2023-24.

82722 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #564 of 1342 🔗

Around minute 35, August 7, 2020, Richie Allen goes on a rant. Around minute 41
Nicola S(tasi) tells us about her latest restrictions. Not to be missed. This woman is bonkers.

82870 ▶▶ felix, replying to richard riewer, 2, #565 of 1342 🔗

Great rant. Yes indeed, nobody is SICK. If you’re wearing a mask, it tells me that you’re sick. So what are the mask wearers going out and about, not lying on the couch? The “asymptomatic spreader” is the biggest hoax going. Why can’t people see that? If I’m asked why I am not muzzled up, I’ll say nicely that I’m perfectly healthy, thank you very much.

82731 Jane, replying to Jane, 5, #566 of 1342 🔗

Look at the 2:00pm update on
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-uk-cases-deaths-update-local-lockdown-latest/
Malawi, late for the pandemic to get a foothold and only now reaching its peak, is handling it betetr than the UK did. A tiny place in Africa now with its strongest restrictions yet is still treating the people beetr than the UK did at peak panic.We’ve been beaten by somewhere as small and poor (and if I rememebr rightly not so long ago quite war-torn) as Malawi of all places.

82821 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Jane, #567 of 1342 🔗

Yes, but the good citizens of Malawi die at a younger age than we do. The temperature in Malawi is invariably warmer than here. They aren’t so packed in cities. They don’t have care homes & those care homes they do have aren’t seeded with infected people.
The 2 aren’t comparable.

82737 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #568 of 1342 🔗

https://player.fm/series/the-richie-allen-show/the-richie-allen-show-friday-august-7th-2020
Jimmy Krankie, No Queuing, No shouting, Public Health, World Order 2.0. Starting around minute 30. Public Health Fascists. Bow down to neurotic hypochondriacs!

82808 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to richard riewer, 1, #569 of 1342 🔗

What a disgusting human being she is, problem is majority of people in Scotland are buying the bile that comes out of her mouth

82822 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to stefarm, 3, #570 of 1342 🔗

Yup https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1320636/Nicola-Sturgeon-news-poll-Scottish-independence-snp-boris-johnson-holyrood-latest

How on earth is there huge support for someone who has wrecked Scottish hospitality and imposed huge restrictions on inhabiitants?

82914 ▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to stefarm, #571 of 1342 🔗

She’s an absolute train wreck. But what’s our option? Boris? He is after all speaking a lot of sense just now….

83255 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to shorthand, #572 of 1342 🔗

That is the complete situation summed up to perfection.

82741 James Leary #KBF, 11, #573 of 1342 🔗

It’s as if TPTB have arrived recently through a wormhole in space, or from Mars (AckAck!), or some other alien place; have just set foot on this planet, sniffed the air, looked about them, and declared, “well, that’s got to stop, for a start”. All this ‘socialising’, gathering in groups, and …. gulp …. ‘procreating’. God alone knows what terrible diseases and causes of …. gulp again …. death there may be festering out there. It’s an absolute wonder this filthy lot made it out of the sea, or down from the trees, or wherever… without ‘guidance’.

And can you just imagine SAGE advising a fledgling gas industry in 1785 when it was first envisaged to pipe gas into the streets and even into people’s homes to light, warm, and cook with? Something that needs serious PPE to go anywhere near? The merest sniff can kill you? Get a bit of it released by accident and it will explode, killing tens of thousands? We would have spent the last 250 years shivering in the cold, eating cold rice pudding, and not being employed in industries that used harmful heat. Better to have been safe than sorry. It’s about saving lives, especially old people who might fall asleep near a naked flame. Far better to wrap them up in sacking when it gets cold, and feed them cold gruel. And children? Around a Bunsen burner? Are you joking? Go and stand over there in the dangerous corner with Jimmy Savile. (He smoked cigars, you know).

SAGE is there to protect defenceless people, who can’t be expected to understand the ‘science’ behind gas, and suchlike. It’s for their own good. And whilst you’re there, throw another government grant on the fire, would you? I’ve just felt a bit of a shiver. People marching over my grave, probably.

82742 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 16, #574 of 1342 🔗

Jubilant DM headline https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8609261/Britain-records-ten-coronavirus-deaths-preliminary-figures.html

“UK coronavirus cases jump by 1,062 – the biggest daily rise since June 25 – almost exactly a fortnight after Boris Johnson predicted a second wave in two weeks”
Strange that it coincides with the introduction of face nappies in shops. Headline should be “Masks in shops leads to jump in UK coronavirus cases”.

82748 ▶▶ Edward, replying to arfurmo, 5, #575 of 1342 🔗

And the idiotic article tries to make a connection with the numbers of people on the beaches this weekend – with the usual misleading photos. To be fair they do go on to mention the current low numbers of deaths.

82755 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to arfurmo, 9, #576 of 1342 🔗

Ah,- cases. Must have been doing some more testing then.

82782 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Polemon2, #577 of 1342 🔗

Lol!

DavidC

82803 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to arfurmo, 5, #578 of 1342 🔗

Apparently the test positive rate has risen from 0.60% this time last week to 0.61%… so a negligible rise at this point. Obviously testing has increased yet again. Why is this never even mentioned as a factor by the MSM?

82804 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #579 of 1342 🔗

Just read that apparently WHO have said that a test positive rate under 5% means the virus is under control?! They’ve kept that very quiet!

82812 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #580 of 1342 🔗

They do. But I’m afraid that this government just cannot find its feet. Time for them to go.

82877 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #581 of 1342 🔗

Could have the same effect as the R number though – unachievable goal due to T&T.

82871 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #582 of 1342 🔗

Because it doesn’t fit with the fear narrative

82759 Nick Rose, 1, #583 of 1342 🔗

Yes, all part of an ongoing process. Every government leaves us with less democratic accountability when they leave office. The emphasis is in a different place each time, but every single one has continued the power grab.

As I keep saying, the whole Establishment is unfit for purpose.

82762 stefarm, 11, #584 of 1342 🔗

I’ve been in a contemplative mood today so this could be post 1 of 3

I’ve seen the absurdity of our situation today. Went for a stroll with OH and walked past MC Donald’s drive through/restaurant.

People who were ordering food from the screen thingys all masked standing 10 foot away from people sitting down eating their food not masked. It’s going to be a long winter

82763 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 15, #585 of 1342 🔗

Post 2 of 3.

Went out yesterday with OH to visit my future sister in laws, my OH hasn’t seen 1 sister since February.

Lovely day hugs and kisses all round.

2 sisters are going to Manchester for a weekend, they said they are not worried about lockdown are just going to go, ‘put on our masks and just go for it yay’. Hmm, I thought didn’t say anything else. In next breath both said hope they don’t catch ‘it’ between now and then and are waiting for the vaccine before they can get back to normal.

Me, nod, nod, you can both have my shot, knock yourself out. In next breath both laughing how we will be turned into zombies once we’ve all had our dose.

People have to be convinced that 99.9% of us are not going to die and the virus is gone or we have reached herd immunity or it is so benign we won’t know we have it.

It’s going to be a long winter

82984 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #586 of 1342 🔗

I don’t cope well with what you describe here. I don’t know the correct way to describe. Half awake but totally asleep. All half awake bits programmed in via media – how else to account for the lack of full comprehension. Thanks for posting Steven, helpful to read.

82766 Dave Tee, replying to Dave Tee, 7, #587 of 1342 🔗

The Government has shown its willingness to micro-manage this pandemic with intrusive legislation, so as to save lives. Now, we know that underlying ill-health, including obesity and other ‘lifestyle’ illnesses, is a factor for fatalities from the virus, and indeed Boris has indicated a wish to deal with the problem of obesity itself. So why not take these policies to their logical conclusion? Those individuals who are registered with their GP as having a BMI within a certain range, or having type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure, could be blocked from ordering any calorie-dense/starchy foods online from the supermarkets and from dial-a-pizza and booze-to-your-door services. The technology involved would be a piece of piss to arrange.

So let’s be having you, Boris. Come on. It makes as much sense as anything else you’re doing at the moment.

82780 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Dave Tee, 5, #588 of 1342 🔗

Dave, the vast maority of it has not been LAW, it’s been rules and regulations (which are not LAW) together with NLP and ‘in your face propaganda’.

Obesity, underlying ill health are risk factors for ANY disease and yet we’re not being sold the idea that these are specific risks for Covid-19. What a fecking farce, and it’s even worse it’s that other f word, you know, the NAUGHTY f word!.

“Ride me sideways, that was another one!”

DavidC

82830 ▶▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to DavidC, 2, #589 of 1342 🔗

Indeed, David.
My comment was tongue-in-cheek and I was interested to see what anyone here might make of it, given the neutral way in which I expressed it.
My point is, that once you allow the authorities to dictate the comings and goings of your daily life, there is no end to what they will do. Supposing the Govt held a press conference tomorrow and said: fat people are destroying our beloved NHS (“protect our keyworker heroes!”). There are plenty of people in this country who would support the refusal of treatment to fatties. This kind of vicious cultural politics is where we are at, right now. It’s part of the reason that lockdown has been made possible.

82941 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave Tee, #590 of 1342 🔗

, so as to save lives.

Mwah ha ha ha !

82767 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #591 of 1342 🔗

I’ve just taken out a trial subscription to the Spectator, so that I don’t keep finding myself on the wrong side of a paywall when investigating links posted here.

The first article I explored is this one by Martin Kulldorff (not the one cited by Toby today) and I was pretty incandescent after reading it. Here are some snippets, see what you think – if you’re over 60 you might want to watch your blood pressure:

Open or close? Open the schools and close the pubs? Open bowling alleys but not skating rinks? Allow open restaurants but not wedding receptions? Britain is playing musical chairs with different services and businesses, but the whole game is misguided and without any scientific epidemiological basis. To open society gradually is certainly wise, but how do we pick one over another?

Covid-19 is a terrible disease, and the primary goal should be to minimise deaths. How is this done? The key is age. The risk of Covid-19 mortality varies more than a thousandfold between the oldest and youngest members of society.

The pandemic will not be over until we reach herd immunity, ….. as stated by the world’s foremost infectious disease epidemiologist, herd immunity is ‘the only way we can reduce the risk to the vulnerable people in the population’.

Back to the musical chairs. With this in mind, we could open skating rinks that are mainly used by younger people, but not the bowling alleys, with their older clientele. That would be a small step in the right direction, but to minimise mortality, one must go all-in for the age-based strategy. We must do the opposite of what was done last spring, when schools were closed while sick patients were sent to nursing homes.

So yes, we can open schools, but teachers older than 60 should work from home, where they can help by grading exams and essays. Yes, keep the pubs open, but those in their 70s should stay away for a while. Yes, open the bowling alleys, but skip the senior league. Yes, let kids skate with their parents, but record their pirouettes for grandparents to watch at home. And yes, open all restaurants, but only offer take-out to older folks. The point is, open society for the younger generations, and when they have generated herd immunity with only modest risks to themselves, older people can come out as well.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/herd-immunity-is-still-key-in-the-fight-against-covid-19

82777 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #592 of 1342 🔗

Incandescent about sums it up!

The Martin Kuldorff I looked up is a PhD biostatistician. Does he understand microbiology or epidemiology? “Covid-19 is a terribel disease” – WTF?! It has killed (if we believe the figures) 0.07% or thereabouts of the UK population IF we believe the attribution of Covid-19 in all those cases (I don’t). Around 600,000 people die each year in the UK. Those who’ve died WITH Covid-19 will have comprised an element of that 600,000 anyway! We won’t know how ‘bad’ it’s been until we have the full year’s data set but I don’t think it’s going to be anything other than marginally worse than the 5 year average (which itself has been slightly lower than normal anyway!). We have been back below the 5 year week on week average for the last SIX WEEKS!

It just goes on and on and on and…

DavidC

82810 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #593 of 1342 🔗

Who the hell is he to say that people must be protected whether they like it or not? All measures should be voluntary. Give the public all the information on who exactly is at most risk and let every individual decide for themselves how much risk they are comfortable with.

82813 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #594 of 1342 🔗

Just another person over-complicating things because they’re not exactly sure what they’re trying to achieve. The message should be simple. Society should be opened up in full with encouragement of hygiene, self quarantining when symptomatic, encouragement of WFH where possible, and ensuring proper procedures are followed in care homes. That’s it.

Then you just need to publicise vulnerable categories of people and allow them to decide what further measures if any they wish to take.

Then rather than testing they just need to monitor hospital admissions, use extra capacity as required and only look at further restrictions if we look like becoming overwhelmed ( based on actual data not domesday modelling).

This needs to be done as soon as possible so we can get as close to herd immunity (if we are not already there) before the NHS has to deal with it’s usual winter demands

83013 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Achilles, 1, #595 of 1342 🔗

You’re right. It really is that simple.

82962 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #596 of 1342 🔗

I don’t have a subscription to the Spectator, but from comments here it appears that publication has a pretty fierce debate going on internally, publishing some of the best anti-panic pieces alongside abominable stuff such as the piece you referred to there.

I suppose that’s healthy, and if all our media outlets did the same people might have had a chance to decide for themselves rather than being propagandised into a state of terrified conformity.

82768 stefarm, 29, #597 of 1342 🔗

Post 3 of 3

We are living a lie.
Lying to ourselves that the virus is going to kill us
Lying to ourselves that a second wave is coming
Lying to ourselves that masks are going to save us
Lying to ourselves that a vaccine will save us
Lying to ourselves that Boris is going to save us
Lying to ourselves that the new normal is fun
Lying to ourselves that working from home is fun
Lying to ourselves that being furloughed is fun
Lying to ourselves that living in fear is fun
Lying to ourselves that the UK government is doing it for us
Lying to ourselves that we are saving our grannie

It’s all 1 big fucking lie.

It’s going to be a long winter.

82769 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 40, #598 of 1342 🔗

Dear Boris,

I hope you have a lovely holiday in Scotland with Carrie and Wilfred and that Wee Kranky doesn’t make life too difficult for you (not). I’m sure that your time there won’t be ruined by knowing that you have to quarantine for a fortnight when you return home, as has happened to so many of us peasants, but never mind, we can’t have it all.

I realise that the last few months have been a bit busy for you and you won’t have had much time for reading or listening to audio books so I hope you won’t mind if I suggest a bit of holiday reading for you.

What about starting with something with an international flavour such as the Swiss Policy Website? It is packed with interesting information and it gives you chance to refresh your foreign languages with plenty of articles in German and French..

You could follow this up by flexing your brain with some maths; may I recommend the Covid-19 In Proportion site? There are plenty of juicy graphs for you to digest there and it will help you relax once you realise that things were never as bad as they seemed. The Euromomo site too, will help you see that all this has been a non event.

If your eyes get a little tired, you could intersperse the reading with listening to a few well chosen podcasts; Dr John Lee is well worth hearing or for an American insight, try Professors Michael Levitt or John Ioannadis, they are very good too.

It would be remiss of me not to point you in the direction of Lockdown Sceptics where you will find a lot of serious and well researched information as well as opportunities for a real good belly laugh (mostly at your expense, I’m afraid)

Anyway, I do hope that you will follow my suggestions so that when you return, refreshed, invigorated and thoroughly educated in all things Covid, you may realise what a massive cock-up you have made. Perhaps then we can all look forward to you doing a massive U Turn and us all getting back to the old normal,

Yours sincerely,

Margaret

PS Don’t forget to send us a postcard.

82770 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Margaret, 4, #599 of 1342 🔗

You should so send that. Brilliant.

82824 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 3, #600 of 1342 🔗

You assume Boris has a brain.
Pity.

82826 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, #601 of 1342 🔗

Well said. You should send it.

82942 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Margaret, 1, #602 of 1342 🔗

Haha good one, but as I understand it’s an working exchange holiday. He’s coming up here to entertain us for 2 weeks and guess who you’re getting…. 😉

83220 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to shorthand, 2, #603 of 1342 🔗

Oh, please God no!

83909 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Margaret, #604 of 1342 🔗

It will be bad actually very bad, but absolutely no worse, than before.

82772 Adam, replying to Adam, 6, #605 of 1342 🔗

Had a quick look at the dating thing on the forum (even considered posting) but noticed it started being spammed, and has now, understandably, been taken down. Bloody lockdown zealots can’t resist encroaching into every aspect of people’s lives, even into a space created for sceptics to get away from the zealots.

82865 ▶▶ felix, replying to Adam, 1, #606 of 1342 🔗

77th brigade in action

82793 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #607 of 1342 🔗

Has anybody considered starting a ventriloquist act now that masks are in?

82797 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, #608 of 1342 🔗

Not heard a ventriloquist since the one on the radio gave up once TV came in.

82806 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #609 of 1342 🔗

Peter Brough, ‘Educating Archie’. True British artistry, it got us through the war – ventriloquism on the radio! Doesn’t seem that daft just now…

82844 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, #610 of 1342 🔗

That’s the chap. Didn’t last long on TV though, folk could see his lips move…

82825 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #611 of 1342 🔗

Gottle o geer, gottle o geer

comment image

82847 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #612 of 1342 🔗

Talking of ventriloquists… Where IS Gates’ left hand???

82875 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #613 of 1342 🔗

Where do you think?

82982 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, #614 of 1342 🔗

He looks as though he may have jaundice. His body shape is not healthy. Sedentary lifestyle.

82815 NickR, replying to NickR, 15, #615 of 1342 🔗

I’m quite a keen cyclist. A couple of friends got hold of the £50 bike repair vouchers, very handy to subsidize the cost of a brake bleed or whatever. The idea that any of these vouchers will get an obese citizen on a bike is laughable, they’ll all get swallowed up by middle class cyclists. It’s just like the cycle to work scheme, you get your tax back & no VAT on a bike. The only result is that bikes that previously cost £1500 now cost £1000. I don’t believe anyone got a bike who previously didn’t have one because of this scheme. If the government really want to get the obese out & exercising they need to do better than this

82816 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to NickR, 4, #616 of 1342 🔗

How about banning cars.

82818 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 6, #617 of 1342 🔗

No thanks.

82820 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 4, #618 of 1342 🔗

That’s the agenda. Initially making it a monumental pain in the bum to drive anywhere, fines for letting your engine idle, parking restrictions, traffic calming, road narrowing, cycle ways, road closure for cyclists in rush hour etc, Probably just plain old travel restrictions too.

82874 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #619 of 1342 🔗

Interesting because back in Thatcher’s job destruction era, Tebbitt said if you couldn’t find work in your home town, to “get on your bike” and find some elsewhere.

Of course that was after they’d persuaded many people to saddle themselves with a mortgage in areas where it became impossible to sell your house. Genius!

However, the upshot was that many more people did start accepting the need to drive at least an hour each way to get to work – especially as British Rail was being systematically undermined at the same time.

Can’t quite see that working out by pushbike, especially in my neck of the woods where the hills are very steep and the rain is often heavy.

82907 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #620 of 1342 🔗

Interesting because back in Thatcher’s job destruction era, Tebbitt said if you couldn’t find work in your home town, to “get on your bike” and find some elsewhere.
Of course that was after they’d persuaded many people to saddle themselves with a mortgage in areas where it became impossible to sell your house. Genius!

Let’s just recall the actual history, because I lived through it and remember it quite well. Tebbit said that in 1981, after leftist riots that some fools blamed on unemployment but were actually the usual kind of riots – thugs seizing an opportunity to engage in thuggery. His absolutely correct and legitimate point was that we have had many periods of massive unemployment and people who weren’t thugs hadn’t rioted in them, they’d gone looking for work.

The Conservatives under Thatcher had only been in office at that point for two years. Far from having “ persuaded many people to saddle themselves with a mortgage “, the two years in question had involved one of the steepest recessions and rises in unemployment in history as the massive inefficiency caused largely by trade unionist power-grabbing and obstructionism that had crippled this country through the 1970s was unravelled. I can assure you that not many mortgages were being taken out by ordinary people in those two years.

That’s pretty much what Thatcher had been elected to do by the British people, though just as with the coronapanic today many had not really absorbed just how much internal damage the 1970s had already done to the country on top of what was obvious.

I don;t blame you for not knowing the true history of that period, because the BBC and most of academe has been run since them by phobic Thatcher-haters who actively rewrote and propagandised a false view of it with an almost demonic persistence and systematic zeal. If you want to get an idea of how much the average BBC employee or academic in the 1990s, 2000s and 2010s hated Thatcher and fanatically lied about her, watch US media people talking about Trump. Similar kind of fanatical hatred and derangement.

But anyway, the history is absolutely not as you portrayed it there.

82911 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 1, #621 of 1342 🔗

Heh, got my first mortgage in 81. But agree with the rest, Mark. 🙂

82915 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 2, #622 of 1342 🔗

🙂 You were one of the lucky ones, John.

82918 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #623 of 1342 🔗

It didn’t feel like that once the interest rate got into double figures ! 🙂

82923 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, #624 of 1342 🔗

Ouch! Not many fixed raters back then as far as I recall.

83152 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to JohnB, 1, #625 of 1342 🔗

Most of my generation can’t get a mortgage because we’re too busy paying one of your generation extortionate rent. So stop moaning.

83467 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cruella, 1, #626 of 1342 🔗

a) I’m not my generation’s keeper.
b) Where the fuck was I moaning ?
c) You fall easily for this divide and rule shit, Cruella.

82936 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Mark, 1, #627 of 1342 🔗

Thanks for the correction. Thatcher rescued the UK from terminal sickness under Labour and the Unions. That’s why so many people attended her funeral.

82909 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 1, #628 of 1342 🔗

Tricky one. Most people are fairly attached to their motors, even those willing to mask up.

And while I do pedal around Sussex back roads on occasion, Aberystwyth where my mum lives, is a tad far to cycle. 🙂

82843 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, 1, #629 of 1342 🔗

Or simply encouraging public transport and walking.

82866 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #630 of 1342 🔗

Hey I’m disabled. No car and I’m in genuine lockdown.

82868 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #631 of 1342 🔗

Cars are liberation. Stop the ordinary person from owning cars, or having their foreign holidays, and you’re several steps nearer a revolution. Of the bloody sort.

82869 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #632 of 1342 🔗

yes, I am not advocating banning cars. Just wanted to highlight what I think will happen. The Netherlands are way down this road already.

82930 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #633 of 1342 🔗

If they try to take our cars, I’m driving mine to Downing Street. You’ve seen Lethal Weapon, haven’t you?

82817 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to NickR, 8, #634 of 1342 🔗

My husband and son are both skilled manual workers. In their jobs they know a lot of unskilled and semi skilled people on low incomes. The number of people who have had a bike on a government cycle to work scheme, sold it and treated it as a source of cash cheaper than a pay day loan you wouldn’t believe! Personally I admire their ingenuity!

82823 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to NickR, 4, #635 of 1342 🔗

How about not encouraging people to work from home, use cars rather than public transport, and eat out to “help the economy”. How about opening gyms and sports venues before pubs and restaurants? Just a few thoughts there.

82916 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #636 of 1342 🔗

Pubs are enormously more important to the national psyche than gyms. Imho, of course.

I’m not including sports venues, as everyone knows how important, illustrious, and significant are places such as, ooh, I dunno, Anfield !

82827 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to NickR, 4, #637 of 1342 🔗

I saw a very obese person cycling up a steep incline up the Berwyn Hills today, in the blistering heat too! I have to say I was very impressed! If this policy just makes one obese person fit and healthy, it’s worth it… 😉

82828 ▶▶ James007, replying to NickR, 3, #638 of 1342 🔗

Completely agree. It makes no sense at all!
People are obese for lots of reasons, and bike repair being £50 too expensive is not one of them.
Lockdown has done rather a lot to encourage obesity. Mental health is a driver of the choices we make. Locking people up in flats, making them afraid to go out will make them less healthy (obvious).

Another factor is a lack of basic skills in cooking and nutrition. Some children from poor families are not cooked for and go to take aways every day. I did not learn to cook at school or at home. Once I figured out how to look after myself my health improved.

82831 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James007, 3, #639 of 1342 🔗

I couldn’t cook anything until I got to about 19 or 20. Food was just an annoying distraction to me then. I am pretty good now though. Going veggy for a few years really helped my cooking skills.

82833 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to James007, 4, #640 of 1342 🔗

Lockdown has done rather a lot to encourage obesity. Mental health is a driver of the choices we make. “

Exactly. It’s not exactly joined-up thinking to push bikes (ha ha) and then screw every other form of activity and f. peoples’ mental health at the same time.

But -there again – that’s an intelligent perception – which doesn’t stand much hope in a time/nation driven by idiocy.

82842 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 8, #641 of 1342 🔗

Lock people in their homes and stop them from going to work, then they have nothing to do except stare at the TV all day, eating chocolates and whatnot, and drinking beer.

Surefire recipe for disaster!

82834 ▶▶ Mark, replying to NickR, 20, #642 of 1342 🔗

How about the government stops thinking it is part of its job to make people behave in particular ways, and limits its roles to national defence and border security, together with basic law and order?

We are in the shithole we are now because some idiots dreamed up some kind of duty on the part of government to protect people from death by natural causes.

82881 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Mark, 1, #643 of 1342 🔗

I watched a documentary about Britain’s fattest man. I think he was from Peterborough. He died before he was 40. He’d never done a day’s paid work in his life yet we, the tax payer had given him sufficient benefits to house himself, get round the clock care & eat himself to 70 stone at which point he died.

82888 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to NickR, #644 of 1342 🔗

Pass the sugar-puffs

82892 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to NickR, #645 of 1342 🔗

OK. And?

82898 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Mark, 1, #646 of 1342 🔗

… & it makes the tax payer an enabler. At some point someone needs to call a stop & say this isn’t right, you need to take responsibility for yourself we will not keep feeding you until you explode.

82932 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to NickR, #647 of 1342 🔗

Yes, but it seems to me the point is to stop the enabling, not to add a further layer of state interference and control on top to correct the problems caused by the first layer.

82933 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Mark, 1, #648 of 1342 🔗

I agree.

82836 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NickR, 2, #649 of 1342 🔗

Subsidising standing desks would make a massive difference, reduce arthritis, diabetes and high blood pressure, but no, bike vouchers which like you say no one will use.

82872 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to JohnB, 2, #650 of 1342 🔗

Oh, they’ll use them, just not the people they were targeted at. The fit have got fitter & the fat have got fatter!

82922 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #651 of 1342 🔗

How could I nap at work ? Cruel and unusual, that one.

82935 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to NickR, 3, #652 of 1342 🔗

They need to make sure that public facilities are open to get people out and about. A lot of what’s stopping people from going out and enjoying green spaces are the toilets being closed allegedly due to the virus. If they’re closed Coivd 19 should be the least of their worries, rather it should be Hepatitis A, Cholera, UTI and IBS.

82981 ▶▶ Basics, replying to NickR, #653 of 1342 🔗

The scheme is ridiculous in the extreme. A tokenistic way for the government to waste 8 million quid. Better spend on really vulnerable people. Without the infrastructure for weak/nervous cyclists it’s not a transport option. That costs much more.

People are wearing masks and have stayed at home for four months scared to death. One overtake by a loud lorry or a close car and this mindset does not get on a bike again. And then it rains.

82835 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #654 of 1342 🔗

Interesting observation:

At any given normal time, Knightsbridge and South Kensington stations are always busy especially during the weekends and summer holidays as tourists flock to Harrods and families go to the Natural History Museum.

Today however on our way to and from Chiswick, both stations were dead, South Kensington even more as no one got off or boarded from this station.

Looks like the mandatory muzzling has really put people off visiting both the Natural History Museum and the V&A.

Thanks a lot Boris Jong Son and Lieutenant Gruber!

Does anyone think that they will now wake up after this latest failed attempt to get people out and about?

82839 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #655 of 1342 🔗

Was it an attempt to do that? Or just another incompetent shambles resulting from a desire to continue this experiment in social control?

82846 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RickH, 14, #656 of 1342 🔗

Your guess is as good as mine. One would have thought that if they really wanted to get people out and about they would go “as you were before 23 March” and not inflict on us Soviet style shopping practices and mandating that everyone should muzzle themselves. It’s bonkers and there will be hell to pay.

82840 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 15, #657 of 1342 🔗

I really hope that the face-nappy edict has made a huge dent in any recovery that might have happened after lockdown, one that is very noticeable and easy to measure.

82850 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, 14, #658 of 1342 🔗

The fact that many shops will lay off staff and close more outlets after 24 July shows that the face nappy edict hasn’t worked. It will be interesting how many museums and heritage sites will start handing their staff their P45!

82858 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #659 of 1342 🔗

They probably want to digitize and 3D map the entire museum, every artefact recorded in 3D so now visitors can save the planet and do VR museum tours. No need for an actual museum.

82859 ▶▶▶▶ felix, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #660 of 1342 🔗

can’t wait to go looking round a museum in a mask, not!

82857 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Bart Simpson, 24, #661 of 1342 🔗

Had mask wearing been a public health issue we would have had to wear them months ago but we all know that it was not. It has been a purely political move to try to get the economy going again.

The problem for the government is this: those who have not dared to put their head out of the door for months may now be tempted to venture out again, but those of us who have been doing bare faced shopping for months are now refusing to bow to the mandatory muzzles edicts and will not go shopping for anything but essentials. To further complicate matters, it implies that it is still not safe because the virus is lurking around every corner. We have reached an impasse. It really is a stalemate.

82861 ▶▶▶ felix, replying to Margaret, 9, #662 of 1342 🔗

masks are a permanent feature of life in the far east. there is no way back now, the controllers must be pissing themselves at how compliant the idiots are.

83001 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to felix, 2, #663 of 1342 🔗

No, not everywhere and not all the time in the Far east.
I was in Hong Kong in November 2018 and didn’t see any masks .
They wear masks when pollution levels are high.

82862 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Margaret, 13, #664 of 1342 🔗

Only these bozos could make a really bad situation worse…

Best to just lift ALL the restrictions. When people aren’t dying in the streets, then the terrified can re-emerge. If they don’t, there’s nothing we can do for them. Another set of court cases for the government to fight.

82867 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 10, #665 of 1342 🔗

Agree. And given that this government refuses to admit that they’ve screwed things up, they will simply find other ways to force us into shops or visit cultural institutions such as those harebrained proposals to tax online purchases.

As I’ve said several times here, the only way that this will end now is by violence and perhaps this mandatory muzzling in museums and other indoor venues will be the straw that will break the camel’s back.

82906 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Margaret, 21, #666 of 1342 🔗

The real motor for the economy is the lengthy weekend trip to the shops. People aren’t going to wear an uncomfortable mask for three or four hours going from shop to shop at a retail park or a shopping centre. They will stay at home or pursue leisure interests that don’t require mask wearing. Whoever advised the PM that mask wearing will speed economic recovery is a total twat. ..

82929 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to OKUK, 6, #667 of 1342 🔗

Agreed. The closure of the BullRing John Lewis (only built a few years ago) is the ultimate example of that.

82978 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Margaret, 6, #668 of 1342 🔗

I appreciate your comment Margaret because I come at masks from a different understanding of the reasoning.

I honestly see the purpose of masks to be about keeping the pretence of viral peril up until a vaccine. I don’t sense the idea of sparking the economy as being the priority – it’s too lame even for a surface plan. I cannot believe the psychology of issuing a talisman to those so feared to not venture out is an economically calculable plan.

If the economy continues to depression then what options are left down that route? All masks more be worn ever tighter to our faces. It is an absurdity from an economic perspective because it lacks modulation and is a one time effort. Once decreed masks are on or off.

The extensions of mask wearing has all been based on alleged increase of peril. Not to restart more of the economy. It reality each extension has been to increase compliance and control.

With the 50/50 will have a vaccine poll today it may be interesting to observe any increase in physical barriers – masks, gloves, soaps, whatever the mandate. They need to make life impractical for us so that vaccines uptake is higher.

83210 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Basics, #669 of 1342 🔗

“I cannot believe the psychology of issuing a talisman to those so feared to not venture out is an economically calculable plan”

Have to disagree with that Basics. As lockdown was eased, the economic bounce back just did not happen quickly enough so the government tried another tack. Even Dawn Butler on the opposition front bench described the move as psychological-helping people to feel safer. Why wait so long to implement them otherwise?

83274 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Margaret, #670 of 1342 🔗

I agree mask wearing is political but don’t think it has much to do with getting the economy going, even if that’s the reason they give for it. I think they know full well that it will have completely the opposite result.

82959 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #671 of 1342 🔗

There’s a diktat that queues must not form. Hence bookings for pubs. Museums also require booking. This will create a horrible chill to life, everybody with an appointment.

82968 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 6, #672 of 1342 🔗

Basically its making what makes life worth living so unbearable. When I went to see the Titian exhibition last Monday, it was such a dystopian and depressing experience that I told the staff member who asked me if I was returning that I wasn’t coming back “not until October and/or when this insanity has been abolished.”

82970 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #673 of 1342 🔗

Think it will be November – after the US election.

82973 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bugle, 1, #674 of 1342 🔗

Oh gawd…..not looking forward to the run up of that.

82980 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bugle, #675 of 1342 🔗

Wouldn’t surprise me at all.

82993 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bugle, 1, #676 of 1342 🔗

Think it’ll be never unless there is an uprising.

82838 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 19, #677 of 1342 🔗

Finally, I found where I saw the only “benefit” of ubiquitous masks:

… Masks are visible reminders of an otherwise invisible yet widely prevalent pathogen and may remind people of the importance of social distancing and other infection-control measures…

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

Translating into English: “Remain afraid of the thing you can’t see! Very afraid!” Incidentally, the same study said masks are a useless infection control measure 😉

82845 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to IMoz, 18, #678 of 1342 🔗

The masks have seemed to make people WAY more scared than they were before. It’s very noticeable, especially the hand sanitizing and distancing with some people. It like they think the virus is even more everywhere and dangerous than it was two weeks ago.

82848 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Two-Six, 3, #679 of 1342 🔗

Obviously the hypothesis holds 😉

82851 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 16, #680 of 1342 🔗

Somebody said to me yesterday that they weren’t going into town again because people were “too close to each other and too many”, and because she “valued her life”.

Teeth grind.

82852 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 18, #681 of 1342 🔗

Perhaps they think they are living in a film and its way more interesting than anything else that has every happened to them.

82854 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Two-Six, 10, #682 of 1342 🔗

You’ve hit the nail on the head, it’s a real live Netflix adventure for them, attention grabbing.

82885 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to stefarm, 5, #683 of 1342 🔗

Well it did feel like a zombie apocalypse movie whilst driving around delivering for the first couple of weeks after lockdown began. No one on the pavements, no noise, hardly any vehicles, just delivery Vans and cops for the most part.

82889 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve, 4, #684 of 1342 🔗

It was just like an evil spell had been cast over everything

82934 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to Steve, 1, #685 of 1342 🔗

I live in the country quite remote anyways, but still, first few weeks cycling was strange. I’d be cycling 20 or 30 miles on main roads and not see 1 car, not 1 person. The strangest thing though was going by houses and the people having their gates shut. Not sure why, but that really wierded me out….

82952 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to shorthand, 1, #686 of 1342 🔗

We always shut the gate to keep the cyclists out ! 🙂

82965 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to JohnB, 3, #687 of 1342 🔗

Wise move. We’re nosey fuckers and will steal garden furniture.

82977 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ justanothersceptic, replying to shorthand, 1, #688 of 1342 🔗

Anyone who can move a significant-sized piece of garden furniture on a bike is doing pretty impressively if you ask me! 🙂 More seriously: I’m no cyclist but I love to hike and I have been amazed by how few people I have seen walking in lovely places in lovely weather. Sad. I mean, I enjoy having large chunks of country to myself (yesterday: 15 miles, met 2 couples hiking in total) but it seems unfair. I would have thought that the risk of official buggeraboutery and swab-based nasal (cranial?) violation would put some reasonable folk off flying and encourage them to try to find somewhere nice in the UK where nobody bothers you – but apparently not.

82967 ▶▶▶▶▶ justanothersceptic, replying to Two-Six, 4, #689 of 1342 🔗

OK (delurking here – but this community has been a lifeline – thank you all)… this (two-six’s suggestion) is a point that I hadn’t thought of, but is interesting to me. Are lockdown-sceptical people more likely to be people who have done SOMETHING, anything, remotely interesting with their lives that means they’ve had to take some personal responsibility and weigh up risks vs rewards… while people who’ve dull-ly dodged decisions and had all their rewards out of risk-managed tins are more easily frightened?

(I freely admit my risk evaluation is a bit laxer than societal norms, so I might not be the best placed to judge)

83146 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Two-Six, #690 of 1342 🔗

Bird Box or Face Cloth.

82921 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #691 of 1342 🔗

Here’s that ubiquitous phrase again: For fuck’s sake!

83000 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, #692 of 1342 🔗

She’s the only one that does.

83036 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #693 of 1342 🔗

Yes indeed, got a round robin email yesterday from someone I knew fairly well some several years ago. She lives in a local lockdown area and was complaining, that a few doors down the road, they were having drinks in the garden with a few friends. Some clown on the mailing list, who I don’t don’t know, said she should call the police. I replied saying that, that would be one way of getting a brick through the window. These curtain twitchers are as hopeless as they are clueless.

82919 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Two-Six, 2, #694 of 1342 🔗

Yes indeed, I feel that same kind of vibe. Like we’re still in the worst of it despite being the middle of summer

82924 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 3, #695 of 1342 🔗

Government told them, “There is a tiny benefit…” and “You’re doing it to protect other people…” And yet, clearly, they think it’s all got much worse, because we have to wear masks now, and a mask protects me. Of course, that’s not what the gov intended…is it?

82853 ▶▶ felix, replying to IMoz, 3, #696 of 1342 🔗

yup, masking up is much better than ‘washing your hands for 20 seconds” [which only clowns would have done in the first place] as a control mechanism.

82879 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to felix, 3, #697 of 1342 🔗

Masks are as useless as hand sanitising in the fight against what we are told is a respiratory illness. That is the gold standard science. Entry through the eyes is as unproven as the SARS-Cov-2 coronavirus.

82886 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Rowan, 3, #698 of 1342 🔗

Sorry I couldn’t resist,
BUT WHAT ABOUT ANAL ENTRY??

82891 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Two-Six, 6, #699 of 1342 🔗

Sticking a finger up the backside and walking round would certainly reduce the number of mask-wears fiddling with their masks 😉

82926 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 6, #700 of 1342 🔗

Maybe dinner first?

83047 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Two-Six, #701 of 1342 🔗

Each to their own.

83148 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Rowan, #702 of 1342 🔗

Well you’re not touching mine.

82908 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to IMoz, 4, #703 of 1342 🔗

From what I’ve observed universal mask donning seems to make people feel they are immuned from any further risk once they walk out of a shop and ‘social distancing’ goes ou the window..

82931 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IMoz, 1, #704 of 1342 🔗

It’s the equivalent of hiding behind a cushion while watching a horror film.

83141 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to IMoz, #705 of 1342 🔗

But that’s not true is it. When people wear them they think they’re invinsible and don’t distance at all! They also constantly touch their faces with their dirty hands.

82841 James007, replying to James007, 16, #706 of 1342 🔗

Enjoyed our mask-free trip to Debenhams this afternoon. No lanyards today, just confidence. Most of what we looked at was at least 50% off, some items 75%. Reminds me of the last crash, when the January sales started in the Autumn.
Shopping was difficult because of son’s obsession with going up and down escalators, but felt good to be out and about. Only downer was there were no baby change facilities available for obvious reasons.

82849 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James007, 10, #707 of 1342 🔗

FREE YOUR FACE!

82860 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Two-Six, 6, #708 of 1342 🔗

Only saw one other face. The staff had visors on, and we got a couple of smiles. I think they were pleased to see us.

82863 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James007, 12, #709 of 1342 🔗

I know, it’s just crazy isn’t it. The compliance is staggering. What the hell has happened to people?

82958 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Two-Six, 4, #710 of 1342 🔗

That could become a trending hashtag. #FreeYourFace

82855 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to James007, 5, #711 of 1342 🔗

You know its bad when the sales are still ongoing. Until this year summer sales ended by mid-July.

82873 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to James007, 6, #712 of 1342 🔗

“Only downer was there were no baby change facilities available for obvious reasons.”

Glad you enjoyed your trip, but am not at all sure why babies have to forego changing.

82884 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rowan, 7, #713 of 1342 🔗

No sensible reason, I’m sure.

If you have a baby with you, you’re not going to spend a few pleasant hours browsing and impulse buying in Debenhams, including a pleasant pause for coffee and a cake, are you?

They don’t help themselves, do they?!

82893 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #714 of 1342 🔗

A lady on the till saw me try to go in and maybe heard my sigh when I saw the covid closure notice. She kindly offered to get it opened up, and made a phone call. The only part of the phone conversation I heard was “right, not even for baby change… ok”
At least she tried.

83044 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to James007, 1, #715 of 1342 🔗

Which is more than her manager did. How do these people hold a job down.

82876 Morse, replying to Morse, 18, #716 of 1342 🔗

I’m based in Wales so no shop muzzles thankfully, but this happened today.

Had a bizarre experience in Footlocker store today. Walked in, wife and son already went in a few minute ahead. Standard muzzled door guard (young female, 19/20 I’d say) on the front door. Then the usual “Halt who goes there” diatribe.

Door Guard ” Can you use the hand sanitzer please”.
Me “No thanks, I am allergic”
DG: `awkward pause as this seemed to stump her and then “Well can you make sure you don’t touch anything!”
Me: Err OK

The noticed the DG speak into Walkie Talkie.

Walk over to my wife and son on the other side of the shop where another shop assistant stood, happen to turn and look back at the door guard to see her looking at the shop assistant and pointing at me. Assistant then proceeds to follow very closely while keeping eyes on me the whole time, in case I dare spread the lurgy onto the nearest shoe. It felt quite unnerving. Like I was a shoplifter. WTF is that all about? Absolute insanity.

I proceeded to then go back to the front and just watched the zombified masses doing as they were told and sanitize, heard a few comments saying my hand are dry and do I have to only to be told yes you must. Like lobotomised automatons they all obliged.

Anyway walked into a rival shop, no issues at all, all the staff were muzzled though, talked to one who had to constantly pull the mask down to speak to us. It it wasn’t happening in front of you, you wouldn’t have believed it.

All in just astounding. Couldn’t wait to leave the shops, a thoroughly depressing experience.

High street is doomed for sure.

82948 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Morse, 10, #717 of 1342 🔗

If the retail sector is happy to assist in hastening their own demise,so be it.To be honest as a person in their fifties I am a bit sick of teenagers and people in their early twenties standing in shop doors ordering customers about,quite a few of them are rude about it aswell,shops that are operating in this way can go to hell.

82963 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Morse, 12, #718 of 1342 🔗

That’s why I’ve been boycotting the High Street for nearly two months now. I just couldn’t stand the treatment that the shops are inflicting on their customers and looks like the feeling is now mutual with people staying away and would rather buy online or at a pinch do click and collect.

If this is the final nail in the coffin of the High Street, I shan’t shed tears for them – they were the architects of their own destruction through their spinelessness and cowardice.

82999 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #719 of 1342 🔗

Agreed.

83137 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Morse, 2, #720 of 1342 🔗

Being treated like a criminal, can’t imagine why you didn’t lap that up. All these minimum wage, one GCSE tits being given a modicum of power. Rule number one: treat customer like shit, customer not come back.

82880 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 21, #721 of 1342 🔗

The main reason masks are still being pushed:
https://thecritic.co.uk/face-masks-make-you-stupid/
“As if Piers Morgan feverishly promoting them weren’t evidence enough, here are the facts on why you absolutely, categorically should not wear a face mask. They make you suggestible; they make you more likely to follow someone else’s direction and do things you wouldn’t otherwise do. In short, they switch off your executive function – your conscience.”

82949 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #722 of 1342 🔗

If there is anyone who hasn’t read (and saved) this article, it is an absolute cracker.

82894 BobT, replying to BobT, 3, #723 of 1342 🔗

Near the bottom of the article, linked below, is a photo of children at school in a bomb damaged building soon after the nuclear blast in Hiroshima.
Have a look and compare that with the photo of a Covid safe classroom (above the line here) where the teachers, according to their unions, are afraid to go back to work.

https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-53648572

82925 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BobT, 2, #724 of 1342 🔗

Different valuing of education, versus assessment of risks. In societal terms, moral damage versus physical damage?

82939 ▶▶▶ BobT, replying to Mark, 3, #725 of 1342 🔗

There was no assessment of risk there. Half the population of the city were killed, most of the buildings flattened. All of it covered in radioactive fallout, no electricity, no water and probably not much food….yet the education of children was paramount and must go on regardless of any risk.

82947 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BobT, 1, #726 of 1342 🔗

Exactly. They were calamitously damaged, physically, and yet in some senses their society was still healthier than ours.

82895 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #727 of 1342 🔗

Faeroe Islands has hit a world record with the highest testing in the world per million inhabitants. They have tested 15 % more than the population of 49000.Only Luxembourg has also tested more than its population but per capita still below Faeroe Islands.
These tiny islands did not have a single case recorded for almost 3 months. Then, in middle of July, a single visitor from Denmark tested pos but quarantined and no further spread. Only restricted countries are allowed entering and all visitors have to have two tests with 6 days in between and children under 12 exempted. In the beginning of August two visiting trawlers from Russia and Lithuania resulted in 42 cases(mostly asymptomatic) on these ships and 2 hospitalized. They have all left. These boats were all cordoned off and restricted access. A few days after they left a yearly national festival event took place in the open in the streets of the capital. Now about 37 cases have been found linked mostly to this event and a few others to a private party.
Some of the minor islands in the archipelago now would like to have an internal quarantine as they have mostly elderly population. Faeroe Islands is very dependent on income from visiting foreign trawlers. No deaths and no one hospitalized.
How on earth is New Zealand with 100 times more people and also less isolated islands going to be C-19 free for the future?

82966 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 2, #728 of 1342 🔗

Pass.

Next question.

83010 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to RickH, 3, #729 of 1342 🔗

I fully accept that this type of information only interest a minority. However, if we all commented whether a blog comment was interesting or not, this blog would be unreadable.

83055 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, #730 of 1342 🔗

It won’t be. They can pray, I suppose, but reality always wins in the end.

“A king is strong, wine stronger and a woman even stronger, but TRUTH conquers all.”
Knights Templar saying.

83192 ▶▶ Biker, replying to swedenborg, 2, #731 of 1342 🔗

Can the New Zealanders not get some of them fat fucks who tattoo themselves to jump up and down and do a silly dance to ward of the evil virus? I’m pretty sure that’ll work. If not maybe they’ve got a special medicine man person who knows what special combination of dandelion root mixed with lamb blood will help. I’ve also heard Africans are having great success in treating Aids with beetroot and sex with virgins, has anyone gave these people a call? Failing all that i see the Church of England have banners outside their churches saying “Try Praying” maybe that’ll work.

82896 Two-Six, 1, #732 of 1342 🔗

Tonight live at 9:30 ((probably) with live chat, probably) Mark Windows
https://windowsontheworld.net/live-shows/
Get the low-down on Agenda 2030, the global melt down and other hot topics.

82900 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #733 of 1342 🔗

They’ve Planned This For Years – COVID-1984
Your Body is Their Weapon – We’re all Patients Now
As a follow on to Polly’s “Is This Torture?” video, (here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yk3x ) she discusses the way The Medical Tyranny is turning us all into Chronic Illness Outpatients. She relies on an excellent article by Sam Vaknin called “The Body As A Torture Chamber” and applies his arguments to what is happening with the #Pandemic response.

https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/theyve-planned-years-covid-1984

82905 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Victoria, 1, #734 of 1342 🔗

I’ve a simple double barreled shotgun and some shells…(urbanite farmer) some of my Rancher friends can lend me some extra Winchester rifle… the ones they use to hunt wild boars..

83096 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Victoria, #735 of 1342 🔗

Both of Polly’s videos are excellent…in a horrible way! Glad a few Canadians are speaking out.

83135 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Victoria, #736 of 1342 🔗

Why do you write sections as titles?

83190 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Cruella, #737 of 1342 🔗

dude is trying to sell you something, maybe Kale tablets for better bowel moments or spiritual cd’s to help you relax or homemade candles to ward of evil fucking spirts, who knows but i do love a good retard

82901 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 2, #738 of 1342 🔗

From Lockdowns to “The Great Reset”
https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/lockdowns-great-reset

83188 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Victoria, 1, #739 of 1342 🔗

Lol, there’s a fucking dumb ass link if i’ve ever seen one. Jesus that website is clearly a grift for the hard of thinking cunts who think they know secret stuff. Let me ask you, do you really believe there is a secret cabal that plan on taking over the world secretly but have let some information slip so people can see it and then tell everyone? If i were planing on taking over the world you wouldn’t know about it.

82902 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #740 of 1342 🔗

MHancock under the bus?

Knives out for Hancock over Cobra failings Friends of Health Secretary reject claims he failed to get a grip on the crisis when chairing Cobra meetings before Covid crisis took hold

https://bit.ly/3gLawr5

82943 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #741 of 1342 🔗

As someone commented yesterday … “Friends” ?!?

83053 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, 1, #742 of 1342 🔗

“Grip?”

82917 Steve, 18, #743 of 1342 🔗

So while picking up the keys for my van earlier, a customer approached me and said ‘I left my mask in the car, do you think anyone will mind’. I gave a cursory look round, no staff wearing masks and at least a 1/2 dozen or so unmasked or chin wearers in the store, then said ‘nah’. Never seen a guy look more relieved…

82920 JYC, replying to JYC, 12, #744 of 1342 🔗

I’ve not been on the site since Friday, so this might have been picked up already. The front page of yesterday’s Telegraph (in Scotland anyway) had a picture of Scottish school pupils protesting against the Scottish Qualifications Authority’s farcical handling of exam results. All the protesters, apart from one, are fully masked.

I’m not arguing that exam results are unimportant. However, the irony of the young protesting about these when the most totalitarian measures in our lifetimes have been imposed on the country over the last few months, without scrutiny or challenge, seems to have passed them by.

82927 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JYC, 8, #745 of 1342 🔗

People say they care about others until they’re the ones being affected. Then it’s all about them.

83187 ▶▶ Biker, replying to JYC, 2, #746 of 1342 🔗

you’ve hit the nail on the head bro. When even the kids are buying this shit we’re fucked. You can’t imagine the Punks wearing masks while they pogo’d around to God Save The Queen and her fascist regime, can you?

82928 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 20, #747 of 1342 🔗

I’m afraid we have to get a bit tough about this. Let’s assume the Teachers Union have a legitimate concern about infection in schools. OK. So their jobs are redundant. That’s regrettable, but if they really don’t think it is safe to teach in schools, then clearly there is no longer a role as a school teacher.
On the other hand, there may well be a public health concern about transmission via schools. Any parent is entitled to keep their child at home. But, of course, the parents will not receive full pay if they claim they need to stay at home for the children.
I suspect this is not about infection at all. It is about free money for not working.

82950 ▶▶ kf99, replying to WhyNow, 3, #748 of 1342 🔗

Time for “Reaganomics” (air traffic controllers etc)

82961 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to kf99, -2, #749 of 1342 🔗

Uh? Sounds as good a solution as a poisonous vaccine.

82972 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 7, #750 of 1342 🔗

So you don’t agree with sacking people for refusing to do their jobs for no good reason? Seems to me an ultimatum saying “enough of this nonsense, back to work or look for another job that you’re not too frightened to do” would be a pretty reasonable approach, especially as we are about to have a period of high unemployment thanks to the fearmongering many of these teachers have enthusiastically contributed to.

And presumably the teachers who haven’t contributed to the fearmongering by hanging out on social media accusing dissenters of being selfish granny-haters who want to cause a “second wave” by reopening schools will be the ones willing to get back to doing the job they are paid to do.

83184 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mark, 1, #751 of 1342 🔗

To be fair teaching isn’t a job. All of them fuckers are in the “job” for the pay, holidays and pensions with many of them enjoying the pumping of left wing conformism into the minds of the dumb fucks that goes there. It’s no coincidence that almost everyone is stupid once they’ve been at school.

83104 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 1, #752 of 1342 🔗

Wot Mark said

82990 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to WhyNow, 2, #753 of 1342 🔗

School heads are between a rock and a hard place, I’d say. Parents on the one hand who are naturally fearful, given the propaganda they’ve been subjected to, and the standard, OTT, in your dreams, guidance issued by central government schools are supposed to conform to:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/guidance-for-full-opening-schools
As Ferdinand Mount (from Thatcher’s Policy Unit, worked on poll tax) recently wrote, ‘The centralisation of power is integral to the Johnson government’s project to restore the old ‘elective dictatorship’.
The attempt to remove local input to planning decisions is yet another example.

83091 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #754 of 1342 🔗

Slightly chillingly, when I found the link to Mount’s piece, written in early February! (paywall, in the wake of Brexit), he also wrote:
“Johnson is described as ‘governing like a pragmatic centrist’. He lets it be known that he sees himself as a sort of reincarnated Michael Heseltine, ‘a Brexity Hezza’. These early months, even years, are typical of authoritarian regimes settling in and seeking to gain the confidence of voters nervous of what they have let themselves in for. It is painful to recall the dewy-eyed reports that foreign visitors brought back from early visits to the dictators of the 1920s and 1930s.

Well, it may not come to that. Under the pressure of events, the Johnson government, and others in the same mould, may back down towards normality, or be replaced by genuinely centrist leaders. But what is clear is that this is not a continuation of Thatcherism at all. There are not many hymns being sung to the free market and deregulation, no reluctance to intervene, to splash public cash (or at least promise to splash). Every opportunity is taken to avoid being tagged as ‘austerian’ or ‘neoliberal’. In its hectic tone, its personality cult, its flattening of the surrounding political landscape, this government is, at the very least, not ordinary.”
And, presciently, he wonders if it might turn into ‘tar free fascism!’

83171 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bruno, 2, #755 of 1342 🔗

Can you imagine Maggie exhorting people to wear useless face nappies? Can you imagine her wearing one?
Not that she’d have let things get anywhere near the present omnishambles. We’d have been the second Sweden.

83186 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 2, #756 of 1342 🔗

Every time i hear her name i get a tinge of sadness that she is no longer here to hep us out. Instead we have to suffer at the hands of mediocre people so bland they want to reek havoc on the world as punishment. Look at Johnstone for instance, a posh voice, a slightly better grasp of grammar than your average punter and the man thinks he’s Churchill. We live in a world where smart people are harder to find than a corner shop without a grooming gang.

82938 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 17, #757 of 1342 🔗

https://twitter.com/yinonw/status/1292505497006874624/photo/1
Updated graph from Hawaii who have had one of the world’s longest lock down. Also early mandated masks first indoors than outdoors. The virus doesn’t care and an explosive rise. Mask fanatics would always say, it could be worse. But this is repeated in the world wherever the virus now is in ascendance. How can anyone think that a respiratory virus can be stopped by masks?
“Mask mandates immediately preceded the spike. Mask mandates precede and correlate with spikes in many places. Obviously, we can’t claim causation, but there’s a strong case that mask mandates are at the very least completely ineffective, and at worst actively counterproductive”

83446 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to swedenborg, #758 of 1342 🔗

Mask mandates precede and correlate with spikes in many places.

82940 Basics, replying to Basics, 20, #759 of 1342 🔗

An unpleasant article here about snitching on a pub by a restaurant.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/fed-up-restaurant-owner-shares-18741483

If anyone does click through and read, just step back a little and consider this article written 6 months ago. It is astounding.

The article directly continues the pattern of villanising young people socialising. This is something that appears to be coming from SPI-B nudge unit behavioural psychologists.

From my observation it seems a command has been issued to the effect that social gatherings of young people must be shamed with the ultimate aim of discouraging all gatherings where strangers can meet freely. This happens to be one way in which resistance to the oppression could take root, but that is a coincidence surely.

82953 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Basics, 8, #760 of 1342 🔗

Hope this virtue signalling cnut suffers a significant drop off in business.

82992 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #761 of 1342 🔗

Thanks for posting onats. Makes me more convinced the edinburgh live writting was ‘crafted’ to an agenda. Glad you put things straight. Snitching restaurants that make up stories don’t get more customers. Not able to access zuckerbergsbook after saying politely what my thoughts were earlier in the year.

The crowd will be back to spoons i would imagine.

82960 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #762 of 1342 🔗

My word, the reporting reads like a load of BTL comments in the Mail or the Torygraph!

82997 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #763 of 1342 🔗

Lol. Do you read The Telegraph? It’s full of sceptics BTL. Many of them are regularly here too.

82976 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Basics, 5, #764 of 1342 🔗

Fairly robust response to the FB article posted by the local newspaper, The East Lothian Courier. Any Lockdown Skeptics, please add to the criticism of this rag’s journalism on Facebook if you have time. “This story is a huge misrepresentation of the true story. The fire alarm was activated by a group who were refused service and asked to leave the premises for not complying with the pubs social distancing policy inline with government guidelines. Due to the behaviour of a few, the whole pub needed to be evacuated. We have a capacity of 139 down from 400. The people left the pub in an orderly fashion and monitoring of the situation was in place by the staff and managers on duty. The people outside were waiting in their own groups to return as we already knew the alarm had been triggered deliberately. All groups were asked to come back into the pub one at a time as soon as the alarm system was made safe and reset. We have implemented social distancing measures that far surpass the expected standard. Licensing police visited last night and were very happy with the operation and we have had visits from other government officials who have all been more than happy with the provisions that we have applied. As of Friday, we no longer allow any queues at our front doors and a manager is on the door open until close to ensure occupancy is not breached. We have a test and trace system in place ensuring all customers are accounted for when entering the premises. In regard to “how Wetherspoon treat their staff”, all members of the team throughout every pub were furloughed throughout the closure and all staff were paid as normal. All staff in my pub have since returned to work and everyone is happy to be back.
Please ensure that all the facts are correct before publishing damaging stories in the future. I would like this article removed as it is simply untrue and miss leading. This is not the first story which had been written to deliver a reaction that is simply unnecessary. Regards, David Black (Pub Manager).”

82944 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 2, #765 of 1342 🔗
82945 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, 1, #766 of 1342 🔗

Err, cctv / masks ?

82951 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, 1, #767 of 1342 🔗

I can’t think of another rational reason why Morrisons would pay for a mobile police CCTV unit…

82975 ▶▶ Cassandra, replying to IMoz, 4, #768 of 1342 🔗

Only an anecdote but I shopped there this morning. No mask and nobody batted an eyelid. But I was literally the only unmasked in the store!

83133 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Cassandra, 2, #769 of 1342 🔗

Everyone in Lidl was wearing a mask today, all the staff too. I got a lot of evil stares. Stupid, fat, white mice, every one.

82989 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to IMoz, 2, #770 of 1342 🔗

Whilst Morrison’s may support one of their local police forces, I honestly cannot see they would let a vehicle park outside and chase off customers.

Maybe someone has it in for Morrisons?

82996 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #771 of 1342 🔗

Entirely plausible. But if you consider that most hypocondriacs zealously actually want masks to be worn, I don’t see why you’d think that such move would drive those “worshipers” away.

83003 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to IMoz, 1, #772 of 1342 🔗

On my visits to Morrison’s they are 100% nappied so no further enforcement needed.

The picture & story just seems odd.

83012 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to IMoz, 4, #773 of 1342 🔗

Found a bit more info about the Morrison’s sponsored CCTV van.

Seems it can be drafted in where a store has problems, odd that one police force would hand over a vehicle to another force, but it can be used where stores have trouble.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/morrisons-drafts-hi-tech-security-15507995

Is it being used to check mask usage? Or could it be that masks are being used by criminals to do a bit of masked shop lifting, and Morrison’s want that stopped?

83032 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #774 of 1342 🔗

Plausible, but don’t Morrisons have external CCTV? It could be a deterrent, but just seems bizzare

83037 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to IMoz, 1, #775 of 1342 🔗

I am tempted to contact Morrison’s HO tomorrow and ask what the purpose of cctv van and addition door staff are for.

83093 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #776 of 1342 🔗

Go for it, the instinct is to ask why they think the numerous cctv they already have all over is insufficient 😉

83156 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #777 of 1342 🔗

Shop lifters almost certainly, same here months ago before major rebuild that made a big improvement. Locally excellent and minimal paranoia, click and collect not so good so Sainsbury’s for duration.

83169 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #778 of 1342 🔗

How will CCTV identify nappied shoplifters?

83206 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to annie, #779 of 1342 🔗

And yet cameras and nappies are everywhere in China.

83130 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to IMoz, #780 of 1342 🔗

Bloody hell. That is chilling.

82946 JYC, replying to JYC, 1, #781 of 1342 🔗

Toby – did you see the article in yesterday’s Telegraph (page 9) – “Washington scientists believe face masks could save 67,000 lives”? Any thoughts?

82954 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to JYC, 6, #782 of 1342 🔗

More evidence-free prophecies from “believers”?

82964 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to JYC, 4, #783 of 1342 🔗

Mask magic! All done with smoke and mirrors – and the media.

83102 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JYC, 1, #784 of 1342 🔗

I saw a cloud that looked like Elvis, we are all
Saved !

83126 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to karenovirus, 1, #785 of 1342 🔗

I saw that! Thank God!

82956 JohnB, 6, #786 of 1342 🔗

Apropos of absolutely nothing …

Relaxing with a coffee in the pedestrian precinct, noticed a couple of large-ish teddy bears had been left outside the Red Cross shop. Being incorrigibly juvenile, they were soon on a bench, engaged in making baby teddy bears. 🙂

82957 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 37, #787 of 1342 🔗

If ten years ago someone had told you that in ten years’ time the UK government would be putting the population under lockdown, enforcing mask wearing, not letting children go to school, and deliberately allowing the destruction of millions of jobs would you have called that person a conspiracist, a fantasist, a liar, a lunatic? Probably! Makes you wonder what horrors are in store for us in another ten years.

82971 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to OKUK, 11, #788 of 1342 🔗

Same here in Portugal.
What gave/give me the shakes was how the Catholic Church was ‘bought’ and how the elders were/are being treated… scared, with masks, no chairs for them outside shops to wait…
We are definetly dealing with very powerfull animals …

83167 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Castendo, 2, #789 of 1342 🔗

Churches will criticise governments if it involves no possible risk to the clergy. E.g. protesting because a serial killer on the other side of the Atlantic has been put on death row.
If they are in any way affected themselves, they will grovel.
The Church of England is the chief groveller. Nauseating. When they meet the God they don’t believe in, they’re going to have a lot of explaining to do.

83918 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, #790 of 1342 🔗

Like the rest of us they will be meeting God much sooner than they would like.

82998 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to OKUK, 10, #791 of 1342 🔗

Just had that same conversation with my mother, only my reference point was 6 months ago, not ten years. Even when this is acknowledged, they still believe that these measures are in place because of good intentions. There is a trust in authority that older generations possess that my generation simply does not have. The younger generation however is the one that worries me the most though. Where is their skepticism? It was taken for granted that you would look for an alternative truth when I was young.

My mother is really down at the moment – 75 years old and feels her life is being taken away from her. She has never broken the law, so not wearing a mask doesn’t sit well with her, even though it causes her discomfort and anxiety. I have told her she is exempt and should say so if questioned but instead she will shy away and avoid the shops (and anywhere else where they are mandated) unless absolutely necessary.

83100 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Howie59, 6, #792 of 1342 🔗

The younger generation has been drummed into conformity by social media.

83437 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to karenovirus, #793 of 1342 🔗

Agreed
And they don’t admit it.
When my daughter says Better to be safe than sorry I say Safe from what? Then she repeats the mantra that I could be ill but not know it and infect other people.
After a few arguments I stopped talking about it. She doesn’t see it the way I see it and I cannot change it.

83937 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, #794 of 1342 🔗

Yes, taking the population as a whole, there are still too few who will openly ignore the lockdowns, social distancing and the mask wearing stupidity. However, the more that flout this arbitrary nonsense, the more it will emboldens others.

83077 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to OKUK, 4, #795 of 1342 🔗

“Conspiracy theorists” are the new realists. I’ve been listening to and reading material from people I would have dismissed as conspiracy theorists six months ago, but these folks (e.g., James Corbett, David Icke) have been predicting what’s happening now for years. They’re on the record, so I guess that makes them prescient rather than conspiratorial. It’s disheartening how many people have lost any ability to think critically and question the narrative.

83097 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #796 of 1342 🔗

That’s the David Ike who survived on YouTube for years but got cancelled just at the start of lockdown?

83947 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, #797 of 1342 🔗

When Youtube cancels someone, you know that they were getting too near to the truth. Some excellent Icke interviews can be seen at the London Real website. They are very long and I find them best watched at 1.5 x normal speed.

83912 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to OKUK, #798 of 1342 🔗

Ten years? There’s only about two years of the new abnormality left for most of us.

82974 RickH, replying to RickH, 26, #799 of 1342 🔗

Had a conversation earlier with a close family member – working in the theatre (filming – because of no live performances).Masks insisted upon by the house administration – all day.

Physical consequences : dire.

Any health professional recommending their general us in other than very specific circumstances is corrupting their profession. It’s as simple as that. Harm v. Benefit = No Contest – they are harmful and have no observable benefit.

82987 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to RickH, 1, #800 of 1342 🔗

My inlaw is a senior IT working for Ageas, unlike his (dumb) young colleages he was all eager to work on office.. this week he was called remote again because they are remodeling the building or some xhit like that…

82979 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #801 of 1342 🔗

Have you seen this one from Carl Vernon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4aDf3drQPY&t=15s
The airline ad is positively teeth curling!

83059 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Cheezilla, #802 of 1342 🔗

It wasn’t a SNL sketch was it? Was it really real?

83095 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, #803 of 1342 🔗

Remind me not to use Turkish Air anytime soon.

82983 Bella, replying to Bella, 8, #804 of 1342 🔗

Well one of my local watering holes from which I have just returned – a well appointed hotel – had no masks at all (apart from some staff – mandatory?) two weeks ago but now are full of masks a la pageant or mardi gras. Dunno if they are grockles visiting from planet zog but it makes me laugh that they walk through the foyer to the terrace with masks on and, immediately outside, take them off. Because this virus is so intelligent it doesn’t want to go outside. Once outside they deposit the masks in their snot ridden pockets or handbags contaminated with god-knows-what until they venture inside again. I saw this dance about six times tonight performed by about a dozen people in a hotel which is virtually empty and after three drinks I began to feel so aggressive towards the bed-wetters I had to come home. These people think there’s more danger now than ever. If they’re that scared why aren’t they staying at home?

82988 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Bella, 3, #805 of 1342 🔗

I’ve stopped to try to rationalize the irrational we are fed in…
I care about ’em next move and how to deal with it…

82994 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 10, #806 of 1342 🔗

Well today was interesting.

I had a roast at mum and dad’s with my aunty and uncle. Same aunty and uncle who got sent the tests from Imperial or Oxford or somewhere.

Anyway, something we may not have known…..

They are gonna be testing the vaccine (all the vaccines? A few of them? Who knows) all over the country, it seems like. Or at least, all over the north 🙄

My uncle has signed up to be a guinea pig. I avoided faceplanting the table by laughing nervously and saying “rather you than me”. He looked decidedly shocked that I wasn’t up for being experimented on like a lab animal. Anyway, at least I got to ask some questions.

His trial is based in Harrogate hospital. (Place of the defunct Nightingale). According to him they are also wanting volunteers in Leeds and York.

Is this happening everywhere I wonder?

I asked him when they will call him up. He said unknown- vaccine obviously not ready yet. I’m fond of my uncle but he is a bit of a cock so I will piss myself if he gets side effects. But hey- it may never happen. Watch this space, updates forthcoming.

83004 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Farinances, 1, #807 of 1342 🔗

This reminded me of Pandemrix: https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3948

83017 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Farinances, 4, #808 of 1342 🔗

Is it bad that I feel the same about your uncle? I have never met him so am in no position to call him a cock, but I would however like to see him grow a 6th finger as a result of the vaccine trial. I’m sure in the normal world he’s a lovely bloke and I’d probably buy the man a pint. This however is the new normal and as such, I no longer give any benefit of the doubt to members of the zombie apocalypse.

83027 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Howie59, 2, #809 of 1342 🔗

He’s not a lovely bloke believe me. Don’t feel bad, I don’t and he’s *my uncle 😂

But yeah. This could be interesting. They will wonder why I keep ringing them up and asking about their their health lol

83043 ▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Farinances, 2, #810 of 1342 🔗

I have say, I have never wished ill on anyone. And I suppose this is our biggest weakness and their biggest strength. It is the human side of most people which is being preyed upon by these control freaks to push this lunatic agenda.

FWIW, my uncle died from a viagra overdose. His death has been really hard on the family.

83067 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Howie59, 1, #811 of 1342 🔗

Oh no 😐 that can’t be good.

Indeed. I read the story of some kid from Oxford uni doing the trials and he was a genuinely community minded soul. Although he was making me nauseous with his war comparisons. Likening it to conscription etc.

It’s like ok my guy, calm down
Godspeed. Try not to grow another head. Didn’t sound like they were paying him either.

83165 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Howie59, #812 of 1342 🔗

Do they make coffins the appropriate shape? Like the y-shaped one they used for the Essex girl?
(Apologies to any female Essex readers. You may pull down my statue if you want.)

83022 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 2, #813 of 1342 🔗

Useful to be getting insider info though :o))

83024 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Farinances, #814 of 1342 🔗

I hope your uncle does not suffer any side effects, very community spirited of him to be a human guinea pig.

83030 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #815 of 1342 🔗

I think he’s being a dumbass but hey.

Trust me he’s not doing it to be community minded- he’s doing it to be immune first (or so he thinks). He’s never done anything community minded in his his life.
— The literary character I would most liken him to is Ebenezer Scrooge.
I can only hope the first guinea pigs are more like him than the genuinely community minded, so if any bad things happen they happen to self-interested twats.

83046 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Farinances, #816 of 1342 🔗

🤣

83090 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Farinances, 1, #817 of 1342 🔗

I would happily be a guinea pig if dying and a novel medicine was in the offing but not in your uncle’s circumstances.

83108 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to karenovirus, #818 of 1342 🔗

I didn’t mention the 99.95% chance of survival thing.
Knew he wouldn’t care. He’s more interested in the % chance that people he knows will think he’s heroic. Wonder what that will be.

83117 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Farinances, 1, #819 of 1342 🔗

It’s likely to be 100% survival with zero side effects as it could be just water and they would claim that it works.

Nobody would be any the wiser.

83197 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Nobody2020, #820 of 1342 🔗

At this stage a saline injection would do the job, if anyone actually gets the rona they can write it off as the cold it has now become.

83051 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Farinances, #821 of 1342 🔗

Yorkshire? They must be paying.

83060 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #822 of 1342 🔗

Apparently not.
(This guy is a millionaire. He’s not doing it for the money. He’s doing it for the virtue signalling kudos).

83086 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Farinances, 1, #823 of 1342 🔗

Not come across it in the southwest. Our Nightingale is being used for the backlog of cancer cases (or so they say, there is precious little traffic in or out).

83112 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to karenovirus, 1, #824 of 1342 🔗

Well that’s interesting! It makes sense. They’re up already – at least use the bloody things for something!
Saw some footage the other day of builders dismantling the Birmingham NEC Nightingale. Guy filming it was one of the builders, he was like “Here we are taking all this down again, what a waste of money!” Lol

83181 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Farinances, -2, #825 of 1342 🔗

i despise your uncle and wish nothing but harm from his vaccine upon him

83476 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Biker, #826 of 1342 🔗

Harsh, but I don’t blame you

82995 Two-Six, 3, #827 of 1342 🔗

Tonight Windows on the World show: Covid Wars

https://www.spreaker.com/user/markwindows/covid-wars

This is the document he was talking about:

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/pubs_archive/pubs-pdfs/2017/spars-pandemic-scenario.pdf

A 2017 “SPARS” pandemic scenario.

Another blueprint for current times.

83002 Rick, replying to Rick, 47, #828 of 1342 🔗

Phoned my GP. She asked what the problem was. I said “I think I have flu” She asked me for my symptoms. I said ” I don’t have any”
She said ” If you don’t have any symptoms you don’t have flu.”
So I said “Could it be something else then”
“Like what” she asked.
“TB?” Apparently not. “Ebola?” Absolutely not she assured me. “OK maybe I have broken my femur?”
She was silent for a second “Does your leg hurt?”
“Which leg?” I quizzed.
“The one you think is broken.”
“No”
“What about the other leg?”
“What has my other leg got to do with it?” She was clearly not taking this seriously…
“Have you injured your leg?”
“Don’t think so unless it’s broken then I suppose I have.”
“You would know if you had broken your femur” She explained.
“How?”
“Pain, swelling bruising, loss of sensation in your lower leg, unable to walk”
“So like broken leg symptoms?”
“YES!” Getting exasperated.
“No not a fucking tickle, thought we were on to something there” I said. “Back to flu then?”
“Don’t mention flu again are we clear?”
“Why not”
“Because it is old and it only kills thousands of people every year so hardly worth my time”
She was not going to be defeated. “I think it’s Covid 19?”
“How would I know?” I asked.
“Do you have any symptoms?
“No”
“OK I think we can safely say you have Covid 19!” She said in a triumphant exclamation.
Not so fast Dr I thought “So it could be flu after all?”
“It’s not the fucking flu, stop going on about flu you haven’t got any symptoms of flu so its not flu. The only thing you can have is Covid 19, it’s the only illness that you can have without any symptoms or poor outcome”
“I’ve lost my job, does that count as a poor outcome?”
“No, your job loss was a sacrifice to save mine. I’m referring to a health outcome from having a symptomless illness.”
“If I haven’t got any symptoms why does it matter what I have?”
“Because we need all the fucking numbers we can get”
“What if I’m just making this up and I don’t have anything?” I enquired.
“It doesn’t matter, I’ve still recorded it on your notes and will need to notify the case.”
” When will I get better?”
“What from?” She asked.
“Covid 19″
” I thought you said you didn’t have any symptoms?”
“I don’t”
“If you don’t have any symptoms you are already better.”
“Fucking miracle Dr. Praise be to the NHS. One phone call and I’m already better from this Covid thing before I even knew I had it. Now about the flu…”

83006 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Rick, 1, #829 of 1342 🔗

WTF…

83011 ▶▶ BobT, replying to Rick, 7, #830 of 1342 🔗

Rick, that was fucking brilliant.
Comedy always was the best way to sort things out.
Can I nominate you for the job of making everyone laugh their way out of this shit we are in.

83020 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Rick, 1, #831 of 1342 🔗

Really good!

83021 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rick, 2, #832 of 1342 🔗

😂 😂 😂

83033 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Rick, 2, #833 of 1342 🔗

Way too close to reality to be satire!

83041 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Rick, 1, #834 of 1342 🔗

👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

83080 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rick, 1, #835 of 1342 🔗

Thank you for that Rick best laugh of the day.

83129 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Rick, 2, #836 of 1342 🔗

I think you missed the point somewhere. 😁 Covid 19 has every possible symptom, which is why everything is covid 19. Didn’t you get the memo? 😂

83905 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Steve, #837 of 1342 🔗

And then again it’s Covid-19, when there are no symptoms at all. Doctoring has never seen so easy.

83163 ▶▶ annie, replying to Rick, #838 of 1342 🔗

Post it on Arsebook.

83194 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Rick, #839 of 1342 🔗

Brilliant… so funny 😂 I

83005 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 4, #840 of 1342 🔗

Just seen this on the DT. No mention that most of the 30,000 could be validly exempt. The article ignores the possibility of exemptions except fleetingly (and obscurely) at the end.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/08/police-have-reminded-nearly-30000-travellers-wear-face-masks/

More MSM articles peddling the mask nonsense.

83008 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Ozzie, 2, #841 of 1342 🔗

I’m just glad that so many aren’t wearing them!

83019 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ozzie, 5, #842 of 1342 🔗

Have to say that we’re two weeks into the mask nonsense now, and we’re seeing infections increase, even the percentage of positive tests is creeping up. Too much of a coincidence, masks=more infections!!

83075 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #843 of 1342 🔗

Masks will cause plenty of bronchial and respiratory infections = Second Wave.

83120 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #844 of 1342 🔗

No dear, more testing =more cases.

83180 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #845 of 1342 🔗

the single reason for the masks is to spread disease. Anyone wearing one will get sick, without a doubt. Remember everything they do they do it to fuck you up. They want you sick, they want you scared, they want the days of your life to do with as they see fit. All the tests are fake, without a shadow of doubt.

83512 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Ozzie, #846 of 1342 🔗

Just dropped my daughter off at a fairly small station, police car in car park.

83007 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 9, #847 of 1342 🔗

Rats spreading Covid?

My next door neighbour knocked on my door this morning to tell me she had seen a rat on her patio last night. Liz is a 100% masked up, socially distanced, scared stiff individual who sees the ‘virus’ around every street corner, in every shop doorway and swirls about every person she now does her utmost to avoid. She was most disturbed at the appearance of this animal and asked me if I had seen it. ‘No’ said I ‘the last time I saw a rat in my garden was around fifteen years ago’. ‘I haven’t seen a rat before and I’m really worried’ she replied. I did my best to placate her with comments like it’s only nature, they’re not really different to Squirrels (of which we get plenty) and one every few years hardly constitutes an infestation. I’m afraid my calming words fell on stony ground. ‘Yes, but it’s different now, there’s a virus around and rats are notorious for spreading plague and the like’. What can you say? Not only is she at war with the entire world for threatening to infect her with a variant of the common cold but it would appear that her garden, which has so far been a haven of safety in a mad world is now yet another battlefield with the sighting of a rat.

I fully expect her not only to wear her mask when she ventures out but to don knee high galoshes over her shoes to protect from the covid infested vermin that she now imagines are patrolling our gardens and streets just itching for an opportunity to do their dirtiest.

I see the funny side of all of this, I think it’s a tremendous hoot. My neighbour, unfortunately, is deadly serious and I’m afraid that her paranoia and perilous state of mind are going to take some time to get back to normal—if they ever do.

83014 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #848 of 1342 🔗

I would suggest she not come near the store where I work in the early hours of the morning. The rats have been really active since lockdown near the bins (fewer takeaways being dropped I suspect) and they’re really big ones too.

83018 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve, 5, #849 of 1342 🔗

I saw a young seagull (full-sized but still with some brown plumage) attempt to swallow a pigeon whole, feathered and still alive. This was in Chester city centre, maybe about June. Again, the lack of discarded takeaway food has probably caused near starvation in the city’s herring gull population.

83025 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #850 of 1342 🔗

Bastard birds have all flown to Wrexham instead – wake me up at 5am every morning.

83028 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #851 of 1342 🔗

There’s a few by me, but I live on your estuary. The gulls like jumping around on the metal chimney cowls, which is noisy… As you say, they like to start early.

83038 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #852 of 1342 🔗

I’m on an estuary too and was delighted when the gulls fled out to the cliffs during the lockdown. Now visitors are back munching take aways around the harbour, and so are the bloody gulls!

83070 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to bluemoon, #853 of 1342 🔗

They’re always here. Or not far away.

83064 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #854 of 1342 🔗

Having to revert to crappy old fish again.

83031 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #855 of 1342 🔗

Saw a herring gull despatch a large sausage in about two seconds the other day so I can believe a whole pigeon is a possibility!

83069 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, #856 of 1342 🔗

It was having a good go. The last sausage I saw a herring gull eat was a jumbo sausage that rolled off my tray of chips. Down in one. I hope the ruddy gull got his giblets burned.

83079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nick Rose, #857 of 1342 🔗

lol!

83162 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #858 of 1342 🔗

Their natural food is battered fish, chips, pasties and purloined ice cream
I actually saw lots of them following the plough earlier. They must be desperate.

83298 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to annie, #859 of 1342 🔗

That’s good news on the plough, I havent seen that for years and years and assumed it was because the soil was less alive with worms due to chemicals, but maybe the gulls departed for another reason. If they are now following ploughs again, then that means the soil has something to offer them, which I find encouraging (soil = life).

83201 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Nick Rose, #860 of 1342 🔗

I’ve seen a seagull swallow a very large dead rat whole, take off with the tail hanging still out of it’s beak, then regurgitate it from mid-air, bombing it into the canal below. They will attempt to eat anything.

83525 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nick Rose, #861 of 1342 🔗

Gulls are pretty nasty normally though. I can recall in happier times seeing a woman walking her chihuahua (or some similar horrible yappy little dog) near Cardiff town hall when I was walking home and a gull was quite aggressively swooping them. She was in heels ( 🙄 ) and was shrieking like a banshee trying to shield her head. I’ve no doubt it wanted to eat the dog – perhaps it was a well educated gull, knowing that the Aztecs bred chihuahuas to eat…

83034 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve, 2, #862 of 1342 🔗

Don’t kids have air rifles any more these days?

83039 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Mark, #863 of 1342 🔗

Yes, but they shoot out car windows.

83074 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Mark, #864 of 1342 🔗

Not in Preston town centre. The Police might get concerned…

83089 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, #865 of 1342 🔗

…says the Voice of Reason

83324 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, #866 of 1342 🔗

Snarky! Presumably something I’ve written has upset you. Join the queue – it’s a long one.

It’s a bit comical, though, for any one of us here, united as we are essentially only by being outside the bounds of mainstream reason and regarded as outliers and unreasonable dissenters on the key issue of the moment, to be throwing that particular kind of snark.

83565 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, #867 of 1342 🔗

Just realised I assumed sarcasm, when it could be straight. If I leapt to he wrong conclusion, I apologise. Hair trigger.

83023 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #868 of 1342 🔗

Rat strolled – yes strolled – past my step-son and me while we chatted in the garden, midday a few weeks ago. In tried to call out my dog, who’se usually an excellent ratter, but it was too hot for her and she couldn’t be bothered. Rat slinked away smugly. This lockdown is having all sorts of consequences in the animal as well as the human sphere.

Have you seen the images of the monkeys in lockdown India? – so dependent on tourists for food that they have begun to divide into small tribes and fight each other for the best feeding spots in the cities. When I first saw that video, I thought – monkeys first, humans next…

83072 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #869 of 1342 🔗

A woman told me how much her dog liked all the extra attention during furlough but now she’s back at work the dog is going nuts.

83035 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #870 of 1342 🔗

There’s a very mangy-looking fox (half bald) around here, which trots around the streets in broad daylight as if it owns the place, and has even ventured inside people’s houses, much to general disgust and horror. Someone told me that they have struggled hugely during lockdown due to the closure of restaurants and takeaways – no more easy scraps to find. I guess it must be similar for rats.

83057 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #871 of 1342 🔗

Rats are cute.

83063 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Harry hopkins, #872 of 1342 🔗

Tell Liz her cat has probably got the Covid.

83066 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to karenovirus, 1, #873 of 1342 🔗

That would be cruel for the cat, sounds like Liz may well get the cat euthernized

83068 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #874 of 1342 🔗

Why not freak her out completely: suggest wait till mosquitoes start multiplying and spread it through blood?!

83119 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #875 of 1342 🔗

How in hell has she survived so long?

83009 annie, replying to annie, 33, #876 of 1342 🔗

Just to say: Don’t be disheartened by the zombies, folks. They don’t matter.
We are the Resistance in a conquered and occupied country.During the war, the Resistance in many countries had to operate in the midst of compliant cowards seeking only a quiet life, many quite willing to betray a resistance person to the Nazis for half a dollar. The Resistance knew that. They must have.
We’re not doing it for the zombies. We’re doing it because it is the right thing to do.
Evil must be resisted because it is evil.

83015 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 6, #877 of 1342 🔗

Spot on Annie, as usual. Once the masses smell the wind changing, you might think we never were the few, but the many.

“No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.”
Mary Wollstonecraft.

83045 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to annie, 1, #878 of 1342 🔗

Sometimes a lesson has to be taught. Publicly. Pour encourager les autres.

83061 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 3, #879 of 1342 🔗

I’m still puzzled by the large numbers of mask compliant people who, when you talk to them, agree that it’s all nonsense.

83071 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to karenovirus, 7, #880 of 1342 🔗

People are conditioned to obey the law. It’s why people go along with even the worst regimes.

83110 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to karenovirus, 1, #881 of 1342 🔗

But they have made a Pascalian Wager.

83161 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bruno, 1, #882 of 1342 🔗

Destination hell.
Their choice.
Lots if clergy among them. Just as in the medieval depictions.

83118 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to karenovirus, 4, #883 of 1342 🔗

Social conformity, herd mentality. This inspires a lot of decisions people make. This is not new but now enhanced and perpetuated by SM.

83029 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 9, #884 of 1342 🔗

Just watching the Stanford Prison Experiment. It’s uncanny how similar this experiment is to what is happening in society at the moment. Those who don’t wear masks are the prisoners, whilst those who call out and shame those who don’t wear masks have embraced their authoritarian role and the power they have gained.

83048 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to JohnB, 2, #885 of 1342 🔗

I did think yesterday that things were getting like the film Das Experiment, a similar kind of film, same ideas etc. It could spiral out of control once the plebs refuse to play ball and our ‘rulers’ double down to save face. The lack of political opposition means this could happen I think. Dark times.

83056 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #886 of 1342 🔗

San Francisco reopens Gay Bathouses (not for the squeamish) ‘to aid cultural and economic recovery.’

Schools and Churches remain closed.

83098 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to karenovirus, 7, #887 of 1342 🔗

Gay Bathouses, where those pesky bats hang out…

83113 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Bruno, #888 of 1342 🔗

Hahaha!

83142 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, 1, #889 of 1342 🔗

There’s lots of thing hanging out there but they aren’t bats!

83170 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bruno, #890 of 1342 🔗

oops, posted very late at night

83115 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to karenovirus, 2, #891 of 1342 🔗

I’ve heard about this economic theory…it’s called the daisy chain stimulus package I think.

83065 richard riewer, #892 of 1342 🔗

More like The Road to Ruin.

83085 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #893 of 1342 🔗

All these ministers and their chief, Boris, should join a knitting society. They are experts at spinning out yarns.

83107 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, 1, #894 of 1342 🔗

No I would recommend they join their local Horticultural Society.., then they can lay out their vegetables on a plank and pretend they are a government.

83111 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 1, #895 of 1342 🔗

Lol Portland Agricultural College

83122 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to karenovirus, 2, #896 of 1342 🔗

According to Portland Agricultural College growing food for humans is “nutrientist” ie based on an oppressive ideology that assumes humans should have more access to nutrients than other organisms such as flies, slugs and cockroaches.

83099 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 1, #897 of 1342 🔗

Radium was very popular in the early 20th Century. Put in cosmetics, food and just check out the rest here:

https://timalderman.com/2020/05/01/horrific-20th-century-quack-medical-devices-that-contained-radium/

83103 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, #898 of 1342 🔗

Yes … they were “following the science” at the time…

83121 ▶▶ Edward, replying to richard riewer, 1, #899 of 1342 🔗

Mesmerism, phrenology, eugenics – all thought to be “science” once.

83139 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edward, -4, #900 of 1342 🔗

Our Toby is a eugenics supporter, isn’t he?

83179 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to JohnB, 4, #901 of 1342 🔗

you say that like it’s a bad thing. I can think of plenty people who should have been drowned at birth

83202 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, #902 of 1342 🔗

🤣

83237 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to JohnB, #903 of 1342 🔗

Judge for yourself. Toby did a programme for the BBC about it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b08lgq9n

83175 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Edward, #904 of 1342 🔗

Sweden was one of the last countries to give up on eugenics, 1970’s from memory.

83101 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 6, #905 of 1342 🔗

Protecting the NHS has now been replaced by protecting Grannies. Sky morning news in Preston today.

83144 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to richard riewer, 8, #906 of 1342 🔗

It’s now a full blown religion. Though shalt not sin is the current message.

Wear a mask or go to hell. There is no place in heaven for the unvaccinated and unmasked carriers of death.

83105 Nobody2020, 8, #907 of 1342 🔗

Something I read below got me thinking about pension planning. When you take out a pension or have a review the adviser shows you some projections.

If your pension grows at a certain rate you will have x amount in your pot. They’ll usually show you 3 possible outcomes with a disclaimer that they’re for illustration purposes and past performance isn’t a guarantee of future performance.

And it struck me that epidemiological models are simply illustrations of possible outcomes dependent on a certain level of growth. They are no better than pension advisers, they don’t predict the future.

Boris et al have been sold a dodgy pension plan and are now embezzling from the UK coffers to try and plug the shortfall.

83106 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 4, #908 of 1342 🔗

Here’s an interesting objective metric: Sweden has way more “cases” per 100K but far fewer deaths per 100K than in the UK (roughly twice the cases, half the dealths!), and Spain’s cases are out of control, yet deaths aren’t:-

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

83114 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IMoz, 1, #909 of 1342 🔗

When they first started testing they were only doing it for people who were sick in hospital. A large proportion of those people died.

Now they’re testing healthy people who are less likely to die but are still expecting the death rate to be the same as before when they were testing sick people.

83132 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nobody2020, #910 of 1342 🔗

How does that differ between the counties?

83140 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IMoz, 1, #911 of 1342 🔗

I’m talking about the UK but judging from how countries are acting many are in the same mindset.

Logically the current number of positives would have to be multiples higher in order for the situation to match when deaths were at their peak.

83357 ▶▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to Nobody2020, #912 of 1342 🔗

This is good though as every asymptomatic person they find via testing causes the IFR to go down. When the IFR is proven to be no worse than Flu the whole charade will have to end.

83123 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 6, #913 of 1342 🔗

No talking in the classrooms. No answering questions. Wear a mask. Wash your hands. It never ends! Put a microphone on every desk so we can hear the students speaking. One for the teacher, of course.

83127 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, 1, #914 of 1342 🔗

Don’t worry about the microphone… every last character of anything typed online in the UK goes through GCHQ (it’s one of those things ministers refuse to answer any questions about, so you know it’s true).

83153 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to richard riewer, 4, #915 of 1342 🔗

I’m so glad I don’t have young kids anymore. I would likely be forming a pod and hiring a teacher. Having said that, my oldest daughter is in her last year of teacher’s college and I’m hoping she doesn’t get placed in a classroom, which is supposed to happen for two days a week in September. I don’t want her wearing a mask all day. The younger is at a university that will be holding classes, so she will likely be forced to mask up but at least her classes are no longer than one hour. Like most young people, they may not like it but they will do what they need to do. They’re adults so my influence only goes so far, sadly.

83168 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, 2, #916 of 1342 🔗

Discipline freaks dream. We were always getting shouted at to wash our hands and stop talking, 1960’s infants.

83176 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #917 of 1342 🔗

I don’t remember being told to stop thinking, though. When did that come in?

83178 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #918 of 1342 🔗

Not so sure Annie, I seem to remember doing a lot of repeating.

83125 Hugh, replying to Hugh, 8, #919 of 1342 🔗

Got my reply from sir Graham – will be working to ensure the restrictions “do not continue for any longer than is strictly necessary”.

I hope so. Last week alone, two sporting institutions here in the North (Droylsden f.c. and Belle Vue greyhounds) gone to the wall cos of all this. One wonders how much will be left if this madness continues many more months. I just hope he retains some influence in his party, I’ve said for a while he’d make a decent PM. Maybe one day…

83134 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Hugh, 10, #920 of 1342 🔗

Love the typical brush off response—what exactly is “any longer than is strictly necessary,” where exactly is that objectively defined in a quantified way?

83151 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Hugh, 6, #921 of 1342 🔗

Like until the curve is flattened???? Where is the goalpost going to be moved next? Necessary restrictions are a moving target. It seems to me that as fewer and fewer people get sick and die more and more humiliations are heaped upon us.

83166 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hugh, 6, #922 of 1342 🔗

Biker posted an extensive list the other day of all the nice things that make life pleasant for people, amateur sports clubs, Church/village hall groups, the Scouts, drama companies, many of these will fail and it will take a while to get them back.

Destruction of what David Cameron called Civil Society, perhaps that was johnsons plan all along.

83128 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #923 of 1342 🔗

Riots in Minsk, Belarus. It’s just as well they’re not under lockdown. Imagine if this was Melbourne, the Australian army would be machine gunning them down.

I wonder if the UK government will make a hypocritical statement about the importance of democracy and freedom.

Reports of pro-democracy protests across Belarus tonight and extraordinary scenes in Minsk in particular. It seems that, this time, the people of Belarus aren’t willing to settle for a rigged election.

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1292569890545635328

83164 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, #924 of 1342 🔗

Having had a relatively easy time with the Covid (Swedish model) they’ve got time to worry about Democracy.
Their President rules by decree, who does that remind me of ?

83177 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #925 of 1342 🔗

It just got 2nd billing on BBC R2 6am news quite anti regime.

83208 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #926 of 1342 🔗

“the people of Belarus aren’t willing to settle for a rigged election.”

Helped by massive doses of external propaganda and dirty deeds interference, undoubtedly.

The problem for Belarus is that they face the usual massive destabilisation inteference from the US sphere that all vulnerable non-compliant countries face, plus now no countervailing assistance from Russia because of their drifting apart from their Russian former-ish allies. They could go the way Ukraine did, but Russia will intervene more openly this time. Of course it’s a in win for the anti-Russians..Either Russia loses another key neighbour which is then used against them, or it faces more demonisation and another massive propaganda hit.

83396 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Nobody2020, #927 of 1342 🔗

People in Belarus have had enough of dictator Lukashenko.
It is mostly young people who are protesting. They have nothing to lose.
In smaller towns police was on the side of protesters.
Lukashenko left the country last night, must be scared for his life.

83444 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, #928 of 1342 🔗

You stand against the global vaccine bollocks at your peril.

83145 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 4, #929 of 1342 🔗

1 Billion people infected with the flu last year.

83147 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, #930 of 1342 🔗

And?

83149 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to richard riewer, 4, #931 of 1342 🔗

Any death is one death too many unless we have a vaccine. In which case those deaths are acceptable.

83661 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Nobody2020, #932 of 1342 🔗

Or if it’s due to an indefinitely postponed cancer screening, cancelled operation, domestic violence, incarceration, neglect, suicide or poverty. Those deaths are also acceptable.

83150 richard riewer, 1, #933 of 1342 🔗

Listen to Dr Vernon Coleman, second part of R Allen’s June 30, 2020 podcast. Shocking. Part one on pedophilia as well.

83154 Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, 7, #934 of 1342 🔗

Oh, FFS! Just when you thought it couldn’t get any lower… “A Florida teacher wrote a mock obituary for herself to protest the state’s plan to reopen schools in the autumn amid the coronavirus pandemic.”

The “obituary” itself is nauseatingly egotistical. And here’s another teacher further down the article:

“What if one of those kids gets COVID and takes it home to their grandma or their parents and that parent dies. Can you imagine the stress and trauma that will cause on somebody?”

No comment. I’m still spluttering.

Probably worth pointing out … this comes from one of the Australian media outlets that’s totally lost the plot. Enjoy 😠

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/the-virus-took-hold-teacher-writes-own-obituary-c-1227474

83160 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gossamer, 2, #935 of 1342 🔗

There’s worse out there, I’ve seen mock children’s tombstones on a similar theme
(salty cracker YouTube I think).

83329 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gossamer, 1, #936 of 1342 🔗

“No comment. I’m still spluttering.”
I hope you are wearing a mask

83450 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Gossamer, 2, #937 of 1342 🔗

Who cares is the answer to that. Grandma’s die of viruses, caught from someone, somewhere a lot. Do you wake up at night thinking “Did I pass on a virus today that might make it’s way to a old lady and polish her off”? Of course not, because unless you’re coughing in her face you can’t be held responsible for what you accidently, unwittingly transfer. With this kind of thinking there is no way out of this. Not to mention, transmission between asymptomatic people is very rare anyway and this virus ain’t all that deadly. Bloody morons, she should be put in charge of the stationary cupboard.

83652 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Cruella, #938 of 1342 🔗

I wouldn’t trust any of that lot to be in charge of a stationery cupboard.

83655 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, #939 of 1342 🔗

I stil can’t get over her self-eulogy. Just in case we were in any doubt as to how wonderful she is.

83155 richard riewer, 4, #940 of 1342 🔗

At approximately the 1 hour and thirty minute mark with Dr Vernon Coleman on the Richie Allen show, June 30, 2020, Dr Coleman called Matt Hancock a conspiracy theorist and a terrorist. Ooh la la!

83157 richard riewer, 8, #941 of 1342 🔗

Rebel. Resist. Overcome Tyranny.

83158 richard riewer, 6, #942 of 1342 🔗

Give Dr Vernon Coleman your support:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPB415zjs

83159 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 18, #943 of 1342 🔗

Mood is down, mask fever is heating up in my town. Weeks ago I was so proud of the low number of mask ‘cases’ I had been witnessing locally.
This past weekend shattered all that. This s**t is seriously trendy now.
Can’t wait to get called out for going bare faced.

83172 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Eddie, 7, #944 of 1342 🔗

Try sticking to the smaller stores. If B.C. follows the pattern around here they relax about masks quickly. The trendy virtue signallers would like the bigger audience of larger outlets.

83173 annie, replying to annie, 22, #945 of 1342 🔗

Somebody earlier mentioned the NEJM. article in face nappies. Thought it was worth quoting the second paragraph in full. Bear in mind that they were originally talking about all healthcare workers, not the whole bloody population: :

‘We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.’

83174 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 14, #946 of 1342 🔗

I find redefining masks as facial petri dishes works wonders on people’s perceptions

83195 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 3, #947 of 1342 🔗

That’s great. Mind if I use that?

83196 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 9, #948 of 1342 🔗

Of course not.
BTW, the article was if course referring to prolonged contact with an infectious person. We know that virtually nobody is an infectious person.

83284 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 2, #949 of 1342 🔗

Be my guest !

83372 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to karenovirus, 2, #950 of 1342 🔗

I don’t think the homemade items people are wearing should be called masks. They are face rags with zero quality control, worn in a multitude of fashions, including as chin hammocks, zero protocols over maintenance and usage including hygiene (for example should they be boiled?). They must stink after being used over a hot weekend. Why can’t the scientists take a random sample post use and see just what bugs they are a breeding ground for. I find them repellent.

83185 ▶▶ wendy, replying to annie, 14, #951 of 1342 🔗

I am so disappointed that Boris wasn’t big enough to stand up to this – it’s like he’s just let anyone push him about. If he can’t stand up to factions trying to make trouble he has got to go. When are the business leaders going to speak?

83239 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to annie, 7, #952 of 1342 🔗

I saw this reply to a WSJ article regarding masks:

“the only way to ascertain the efficacy of face masks in the real world is to do randomized trials.” Nevertheless, hundreds of millions of Americans are wearing masks made by unregulated manufacturers and are given no training on proper usage. Wearing a mask isn’t without risk; this needs to be weighed against the reward.
Contrast this with the hydroxychloroquine debate. After 65 years, HCQ is one of the safest drugs in common use. There is also strong evidence that, when used with azithromycin and zinc very early in the course of a Covid-19 infection, HCQ results in a milder and shorter disease with lower morbidity.
In both cases, masks and HCQ, we are told the data is anecdotal. Yet governments require or advocate the use of masks while limiting access to HCQ. Why is anecdotal evidence good enough for masks but not for HCQ?
Alan Herman, Ph.D
Camarillo, Calif.
Mr. Herman was chief scientific officer at Coherus BioSciences (2011-18)

83287 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sarigan, 1, #953 of 1342 🔗

The precautionary principle is very selectively applied.

83643 ▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Cicatriz, #954 of 1342 🔗

Something far more sinister. The extreme suppression of HCQ, the bullying of medics, the censorship of proponents such as America’s Frontline Doctors, the reclassification of HCQ as a poison and the severe penalties for unauthorized usage (e.g. massive fines and up to 6 months jail in Queensland, Australia) should ring alarm bells.

Professor Harvey Risch from Yale offers some compelling clinical data re. the efficacy of HCQ:

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

As does Dr Simone Gold (who was fired from her job after speaking out as one of America’s Frontline Doctors):

https://mobile.twitter.com/drsimonegold

83183 wendy, replying to wendy, 17, #955 of 1342 🔗

A friend just sent me a link to Andy Burnham, mayor or Manchester, quoted on the BBC saying he will shut pubs if the government can’t improve track and trace. Photo showed him at a church service for Covid victims. Had me spitting blood. Did anyone attend a church service in bad flu years!!!

Got me looking how Sweden do track and trace. Initially it was done by their health officials but in July they asked the individuals with a positive test to get in touch with their own contacts. I then had a look at some of their public health information – factual and encouraging that it’s only a mild illness, not to be worried.

All this made me wonder what we have come to. Authoritarian, fear mongers. I really do feel quite despairing for the future of our country. Sweden must be looking at all the madness with incredulity.

83191 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to wendy, 26, #956 of 1342 🔗

As a retired manager it annoys me that the handling of this virus has been an abject failure of project management. In practice It seems to be mostly the unproductive headless chicken management style.
There has been no clear acknowledgement as to whether they are trying to totally eradicate this disease, which is probably impossible and would totally wreck the country.
Or do they have a containment strategy? in which case what is it? what is the end game? and what does success look like?
At the moment serious hospital cases are very low, deaths are low and we are chasing our tails on test results, many from people who are asymptomatic!
So, from a management point of view what are we doing? why are we doing it? and when do we declare a successful end? and how do yous sell this policy to a frightened public?
Poor management of this virus is costing us dear.

83193 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Steve Martindale, 13, #957 of 1342 🔗

I can only see one way out of this mess for ourselves and for government and that is for Boris to say the Imperial college modelling was wrong, they did their best but over estimated the danger of the virus, it was partly a miss judgement that continue too long because of his own illness. If he did this and came clean with the information people would understand and forgive and be so relieved to get on with their lives.

If he doesn’t do this and let’s the factions trying to bring the government down continue to cause more fear, there will be more deaths and further damage to the economy and the government will be discredited, perhaps may fall?

83198 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendy, 11, #958 of 1342 🔗

Unfortunately Boris and co won’t do that. They don’t want to admit that this has been all a big mistake.

They will try to cling on for dear life and impose more diktat on us. Until people won’t be able to stand for it any longer and take matters into their own hands.

As I’ve said several times now, this won’t end peacefully but rather violently.

83200 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #959 of 1342 🔗

Do you think that it’s likely the Conservative Party will take control somehow and replace him and change direction or will there likely be some kind of a collapse?

83216 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendy, 4, #960 of 1342 🔗

Very likely. Any sensible people in the Conservative Party should know that this will be harming them long term and could even make them unelectable for years and years.

83214 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #961 of 1342 🔗

normally the view is , if youre in a hole, stop digging. Johnsons view seems to be “the shovel isnt working, get a JCB back hoe in “

83217 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 3, #962 of 1342 🔗

Spot on. He doesn’t seem to have any plan at how we get out of this at all.

83233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #963 of 1342 🔗

Conservative party really do need to take some control or remove him. It can’t just be people on this site who can see the virus isn’t so bad, other rational people can read Carl Heneghan and Sunetra Gupta etc. if they could be brave enough to do a critique of how Sweden has coped and say we must try this now. More and more imposed restrictions can’t lead to a good place. Freddie Sayers on unherd has written a good piece just now. Could it be the Conservative party find Sweden too left leaning to use their example?

What I know is that if this fear and authoritarianism isn’t stopped it will lead to more sadness and losses.

I just want it to end.

83238 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to wendy, 3, #964 of 1342 🔗

“Sensible people in the Conservative Party”. If you’re talking about the Parliamentary party, there may be some but they’ve been keeping very quiet. I can’t see anyone challenging the PM, as his majority is so huge. Maybe in a few years time. Not now.

83285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Julian, 1, #965 of 1342 🔗

Are we on our own then? Perhaps when schools do go back and bad things don’t happen, as they won’t, things might be clearer for everyone to see. I wonder has Boris just followed France with the masks thing, north European countries are not doing it. Is France so powerful to us in terms of imports exports route?

83434 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #966 of 1342 🔗

What the flying fuck suggests to you he has any intention of ‘getting out of this’ whatsoever ?

83291 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, #967 of 1342 🔗

Anyone remember GBH, the Alan Bleasdale drama series?

83295 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #968 of 1342 🔗

100% right. A crisis requires crisis management, which needs training and experience (my job, pre-retirement).
As soon as I saw BJ offering daily briefings I knew this wasn’t being sensibly managed – you don’t offer that hostage to fortune when you don’t know where your next step might take you.
The situation called for some military input at the outset (not troops on the streets, but officers in Cobra meetings) – yet all they used the military for was to build, highly efficiently, several unneccessary field hospitals.

83429 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, #969 of 1342 🔗

So, from a management point of view what are we doing? why are we doing it? and when do we declare a successful end? and how do yous sell this policy to a frightened public?

1) Imposing tyranny
2) We’re the bad guys
3) When resistance is no more
4) No need to sell if they’re brainwashed

83230 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to wendy, 1, #970 of 1342 🔗

Where did you find the Swedish PH info? Is there a link to online sources please?

83281 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Mr Dee, #971 of 1342 🔗

I just googled Swedish Covid policy.

83288 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendy, 2, #972 of 1342 🔗

I love the way these people are happy to remove from ordinary folk that which they don’t use themselves. It really makes my day, here in happy world. I fervently wish them all dead.

83304 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #973 of 1342 🔗

If pubs do close, folks will just start up illegal drinking places to gather.

83325 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendy, 1, #974 of 1342 🔗

We will, won’t we?

83330 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #975 of 1342 🔗

You may get the Christmas you desire. Sorry, but you’ll have to read between the words.

83328 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendy, #976 of 1342 🔗

Tegnell and Giescke certainly are!

83189 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 7, #977 of 1342 🔗

“It is hardly possible to overrate the value, in the present low state of human improvement, of placing human beings in contact with persons dissimilar to themselves, and with modes of thought and action unlike those with which they are familiar.”

‘(Mill) worried, though, that capitalism could inflict spiritual damage that would be harder to fix. The pressure to accumulate wealth could lead to passive acceptance of the world as it was—what Mill’s disciples call the “tyranny of conformity”.

‘Mill loved the idea of a country founded on liberty, but he feared America had fallen into precisely this trap. Americans displayed “general indifference to those kinds of knowledge and mental culture which cannot be immediately converted into pounds, shillings and pence.” Following Alexis de Tocqueville’s premonitions, Mill saw America as the country where there was less genuine freedom of thought than any other.’

‘the views of the majority stifling individual creativity and thought. Those who challenged received wisdom—the freethinkers, the cranks, the Mills—might be shunned by “public opinion”. Expertise could be devalued as the “will of the people” reigned supreme.
The upshot was frightening. Paradoxically individual freedom could end up being more restricted under mass democracy than under the despotic sovereigns of yore. Mill famously refers to this as “tyranny of the majority”. But he worries just as much about middle-class “respectable” opinion as working-class ignorance.’

https://www.economist.com/schools-brief/2018/08/04/against-the-tyranny-of-the-majority

The tyranny of the majority has been a concern of political thinkers for hundreds of years.

I have seen it in action banning hunting, no peer reviewed evidence cited, ever, in support of a ban. Others, notably the London School of Economics, have railed against it regarding Brexit.

But no-one has come up with a watertight solution. Probably the nearest to a solution is the federal system of the United States. The mobility of the U.S. workforce is significant. If you are a Republican in a locked down Democratic party run state, it is relatively straightforward to simply relocate to a Republican run state.

How does that translate to the United Kingdom?

More localism…the roads south across the Scottish border will shortly need resurfacing as the flood south wears them out…..including a more local health service. Sweden and Germany have shown us the way.

And that, in its turn, means that any new political party could do worse than form up as a loose affiliation of strongly independent local candidates united in strategy, divergent in the application of that strategy as it applies to differing local circumstances…..

83244 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #978 of 1342 🔗

That’s what I love here.
You wouldn’t get a disquisition like that BTL in the Mail or DT 😊

83425 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tim Bidie, #979 of 1342 🔗

How does that translate to the United Kingdom?

We need to reclaim our right to carry semi-auto Heckler & Kochs …

83199 Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 3, #980 of 1342 🔗

Not sure if this petition has been posted before:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442

“Prevent any restrictions on those who refuse a Covid-19 vaccination”

83203 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Rabbit, 2, #981 of 1342 🔗

Signed it. I am more worried about being forced to be vaccinated. Though if that were attempted I am sure there would be a legal challenge, so perhaps let’s get going with that.

83209 ▶▶▶ Rabbit, replying to wendy, 2, #982 of 1342 🔗

Agreed, perhaps Toby could link to this one each day just like the one to stop the use of masks in shops (but couldn’t see that one here today). That one doesn’t have as many signatures and the signed count does not seem to greatly increase.

83222 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Rabbit, 1, #983 of 1342 🔗

I have signed that one. It would be good to get more people to do it.

83231 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to wendy, 5, #984 of 1342 🔗

As a healthcare professional undertaking any intervention requires that consent is obtained from the patient. To continue without verbal consent or clear implied consent would be assault and battery under common law. If a patient refuses treatment despite having explained the benefits of such treatment then that is their unalienable right under the mental capacity act. Everyone over the age of 16 is considered to have capacity to make their own decisions unless it can be shown otherwise (there are distinct criteria) if they do not have capacity then an advocate for them can consent or otherwise on their behalf. The only exception where a person can be treated against their will is under the mental health act, an involuntary section. If a person is unconscious then obviously life threatening conditions can be treated without consent, but that would not include preventive treatment like a vaccination.
If I were doing SARS-COV-2 vaccinations and someone refused then I COULD NOT administer the vaccine under common law AND my code of professional conduct.

83242 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to p02099003, 5, #985 of 1342 🔗

The problem is they can now change the law overnight and with no parliamentary scrutiny. All under the guise of the “emergency”.

83259 ▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #986 of 1342 🔗

However, it is not statute law, it is common law; I.e. has already been presented to a court. Also, they cannot overrule a healthcare professional’s code of professional conduct as the registration bodies have been given statutory responsibility. There’s also the common law duty of care. There would a flood of law suits to both the U.K. Supreme Court and the human rights court in Strasbourg.

83262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to p02099003, 2, #987 of 1342 🔗

Thanks. That’s at least slightly reassuring.

83326 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to p02099003, 1, #988 of 1342 🔗

👍

83349 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #989 of 1342 🔗

Guess we’d see what happens when they march all the judiciary down to get their mandatory vaccines and all the parliamentarians.

83269 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to p02099003, 3, #990 of 1342 🔗

“undertaking any intervention requires that consent is obtained from the patient.”

If wearing a mask is an intervention, (and who in favour of masks could argue it is not, in that they think it does some good), that surely throws up a very interesting legal issue?

83361 ▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to p02099003, 1, #991 of 1342 🔗

This is true, to change this intrinsic element of health care would be so profound. I just can’t see it happening. I know mandatory vaccines have existed in the past but long before the rules of consent were established or the MH Act was drawn up.

83234 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to wendy, 3, #992 of 1342 🔗
83236 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to wendy, 6, #993 of 1342 🔗

There was a survey that said 5 out of 6 UK people would willingly take the Covid 19 vaccine, that would be 83% of the population. In that case I doubt they would need to consider compulsion. They will struggle to find enough vaccine for 83%.

83418 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, #994 of 1342 🔗

Didn’t yesterday’s poll say 50% would refuse the new vaccine ?

83258 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to wendy, 6, #995 of 1342 🔗

They won’t make it mandatory.You will just find your everyday life restricted without it.

83280 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #996 of 1342 🔗

Yep. Not mandatory, just that you will have to have it. “We didn’t say it was mandatory”; “It was a recomendation”; “Guidance” etc.

83327 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #997 of 1342 🔗

Amounts to compulsion in Law.

83573 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nick Rose, #998 of 1342 🔗

How? There’s no legal sanction, such as a fine. No teeth.

83365 ▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #999 of 1342 🔗

Nope, that won’t happen. That is coercion and is also forbidden in healthcare. Enough people will be willing, only a percentage need to be for it to “work” so then we’ll be allowed to choose. Obviously there will be a lot of emotional manipulation just like there is every year for the flu vac but that’s all.

83204 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 22, #1000 of 1342 🔗

Here are my early morning thoughts:

When this crapfest first started, we were witnessing the first stirrings of spring. Now the first signs of autumn are appearing – horse chestnut trees losing their leaves here …

I just also want to acknowledge the kindness of some who are making this bollocks *just* tolerable. The guys from a second hand shop who delivered some furniture recently with no fuss, no masks and nothing different to usual; Milk & More who I now use because my local shop is just so bloody awful. They also deliver compost which is great because I had a hideous experience at my local garden centre several weeks ago. And, I know this is sad, but I am deriving simple pleasure from seeing milk bottles on my doorstep every other morning. Thank you Milk & More and second-hand furniture shop …

83213 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 15, #1001 of 1342 🔗

Agree with you.

I’ve long been convinced that this crisis has brought out the worst in people not the best. However there are small pockets of hope – from the fellow sceptics here, the lovely staff in the various food places I’ve been to and that bloke who fixed our window blinds back in April who was already convinced then that the figures were being faked. This too will pass……

83235 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #1002 of 1342 🔗

I know. There are definitely those enjoying their figurative as well as literal day in the sun! But, I am keeping a mental note of all those who have treated me like diseased scum and those who have retained their humanity.

83275 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, #1003 of 1342 🔗

Oooh, are they going “in the book”?

83320 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1004 of 1342 🔗

I don’t have a book. However, like Annie, I do have a list. A growing list.

83323 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1005 of 1342 🔗

No, but I will remember those who have treated me like scum for no other reason than to display their perceived moral-superiority.

83261 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1006 of 1342 🔗

Yes, this will pass – but how many of us will pass before the country recovers???

83315 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1007 of 1342 🔗

Brought out the worst in people and encouraged to behave this way by our own government and at least one Chief Constable .

83221 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to kh1485, 12, #1008 of 1342 🔗

I have often thought that it seemed very convenient the lockdown started just as we enter a period of ok to great weather. But then that doesn’t necessarily stack up in comparison with other countries.

Thanks for the milk and more recommendation. After a quick trip to Tesco this weekend, I think I would rather avoid as much as possible now. I would say approximately 100 customers at the time. Only myself and one other not masked (aside from most of the staff). I don’t understand why people are also putting them on as they get out of the car and often wearing them on exiting the shop all the way back to the car. I even saw at least two people still wear them as they drove off.

83227 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Rabbit, 5, #1009 of 1342 🔗

You’re welcome. They sell absolutely loads of stuff and the milk is really nice. Not as cheap as supermarkets but, quite frankly, for the convenience factor, I reckon it’s worth it.

On the mask thing, we have customers who put a mask on to walk through our shop on their way to the outside seating and then remove them when they sit down! None of this bears any scrutiny whatsoever!

83277 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 2, #1010 of 1342 🔗

They are doing exactly, eggs-pigging-zactly, what they have been told. Sad.

83286 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Rabbit, 2, #1011 of 1342 🔗

They are brainwashed and don’t realise they are now owned by the state.

83205 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 17, #1012 of 1342 🔗

So, I’m in the Bradford/Keighley area and I just sent this to my MP:

I trust that you are well.

Further to our previous correspondence, I just wanted to get in touch and say that I have been encouraged by the fact that you have been challenging the local lockdown restrictions that were arbitrarily and unnecessarily imposed by Matt Hancock over the North West (see here, for example, for reasons why reporting cases is pretty meaningless https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-cases-in-england-arent-rising-heres-why/ – this report was written by the same Professor who revealed that PHE has been over reporting Covid deaths, which led to the investigation into PHE’s reporting of Covid deaths).

Whilst I don’t think you go far enough, since you still seem to think that restrictions are necessary in some places and you seem to think that we should adjust to a ‘new normal’, it is good that you are finally starting to at least question what this so called Conservative government is doing to our beloved nation.

You may recall from my previous correspondence that I said the following:

‘It is becoming increasingly clear that these measures are endangering, jeopardising and costing more lives than they are purportedly saving, equally, among other things, in terms of physical deaths, mental health problems, physical abuse and the terrible damage that is being inflicted on our economy and the short, mid and long term damage that is being inflicted on the NHS, for example.’

Therefore, you may be interested in this article that shows how many extra deaths have been caused by lockdowns, not to mention the catastrophic economic consequences caused by the government’s inept handling of the situation.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-lockdown-may-have-indirectly-caused-16-000-excess-deaths-study-12044923

Anyway, I may never persuade you that lockdown policy is wrong, but I would like to thank you for at least starting to challenge the poor decision to lockdown our area again. I do not know of anyone who supports or understands this decision, even amongst the most hardened lockdown supporters.

Kind regards,’

Hopefully he’ll start to see that this is all a load of nonsense!

83219 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Moomin, 4, #1013 of 1342 🔗

I’ve been considering writing a complimentary email to my local authority praising our director of public health for not getting sucked into the Stockholm syndrome that other local chiefs appear to have succumbed to…..

83311 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1014 of 1342 🔗

It’s a shame they haven’t! If they paid attention to what is going on in Stockholm, we’d all be in a much better place!

83249 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Moomin, 4, #1015 of 1342 🔗

I have also written to my MP Geoffrey Cox (Torridge & West Devon), he was on holiday last week and is due to reply this week. As a legal man he is a master of the non reply so I am not too hopeful but you have to try.

83265 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Steve Martindale, #1016 of 1342 🔗

Yeah, we must keep trying.

83207 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 8, #1017 of 1342 🔗

Sorry, me again. Sadly I can’t post a photo here any more, but I reproduce the wording from our …. LIBRARY! Jeez ……

Entry for Children’s Only

Please wait to come in

Max. 6 People

incl. children

83211 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 8, #1018 of 1342 🔗

Jesus wept. That’s all I can say.

If libraries do go bust, they only have themselves to blame.

83212 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #1019 of 1342 🔗

These are our books and our services.

83215 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 8, #1020 of 1342 🔗

Agree. However if people vote with their feet and boycott them they will have to change.

83228 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 15, #1021 of 1342 🔗

I know. Every day, when I think the absurdity and crapiness can’t exceed what went the day before, along comes this!

83232 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 9, #1022 of 1342 🔗

Its just becoming even more and more Kafkaesque. Even Kafka wouldn’t believe what’s going on.

83263 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #1023 of 1342 🔗

Ours is ring up, say what “kind” of books you like – not a particular book, easily reserved online – and they will “choose a selection”, which you can then go and pick up, once you have been hosed down etc. You will be stunned to hear I haven’t bothered.

83283 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1024 of 1342 🔗

Oh ffs!

83404 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1025 of 1342 🔗

Here too, I was thinking of the fun categories I would give them to go and choose from as in Woodworking and Politics, or Classical Literature and Waste Management.

83224 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to kh1485, 6, #1026 of 1342 🔗

I’m so angry

83226 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to kh1485, 10, #1027 of 1342 🔗

For a library the English is pretty bad!

83240 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kh1485, 6, #1028 of 1342 🔗

Our library will only allow 15 mins browsing time, and all the seating areas are closed… so that’s it for my 6-year-old, who likes to spend at least an hour there perusing the shelves and reading in a comfy spot. Not to mention the masking issue…

83256 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1029 of 1342 🔗

In my library, we are not even allowed to browse – or select books remotely. The only thing we are allowed to do is request a bundle of books of a particular type, with no guarantees of what will be picked for us to pick up at some later date.

The idiocy is truly monstrous, and we have to pay insanely high council tax for such ‘favours’!

83266 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to IanE, 1, #1030 of 1342 🔗

Just posted essentially the same thing, IanE. Didn’t see yours.
Naughty North West by the way.

83253 ▶▶ Julian, replying to kh1485, 2, #1031 of 1342 🔗

You need to be logged in to upload images

83278 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, #1032 of 1342 🔗

Thanks for the heads-up Julian, didn’t realise – oops!

83272 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to kh1485, 9, #1033 of 1342 🔗

Just shut them down and sack the staff.Libraries are no longer places of learning – they are stuffed full of crèches, sing-songs and other pursuits that cause noise. And the non-fiction books are so out of date they should be in a museum.

83282 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #1034 of 1342 🔗

Exactly. I remember the library I used to go to in the 80s, austere wooden-pannelled place and as silent as the grave. And woe betide you if you brought a book back late. Managed to get all my revision done in peace though, and got myself my first boyfriend there (bugger wanted to crib my economics homework!).

83394 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Hammer Onats, #1035 of 1342 🔗

Their funding has been more than decimated by ‘austerity’. Books are so last century as well. It’s all about the internet innit?

83296 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, #1036 of 1342 🔗

Here’s the photographic evidence (thanks Julian!)

83301 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 2, #1037 of 1342 🔗

children’s what?!

83308 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to bluemoon, #1038 of 1342 🔗

Children’s section of the library I assume.

83341 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Nick Rose, #1039 of 1342 🔗

Oh ta.

83386 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to kh1485, 2, #1040 of 1342 🔗

OMG – that apostrophe !

83218 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 15, #1041 of 1342 🔗

I think that getting all children back to school in September is Boris’s last chance saloon. He knows this, hence the article in this weekend’s newspapers. Failure to do so means that so many parents will be unable to return to work because of child care issues (even though it has always made me angry that schools are equated with child minding.)

Any parent knows that it is impossible to hold a zoom meeting without running the risk of a small child running in at any moment and creating chaos.

His time is running out.

83225 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Margaret, 16, #1042 of 1342 🔗

I guarantee you he doesn’t give a sh*t

83229 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Margaret, 3, #1043 of 1342 🔗

His time is running out before what happens?

83252 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Julian, 1, #1044 of 1342 🔗

There are just three weeks left of the “summer holidays” in England.

83267 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Julian, 1, #1045 of 1342 🔗

Can you say more – I need some hope some one is going to talk some sense.

83355 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Julian, 1, #1046 of 1342 🔗

Who/what would fill the void?

83246 ▶▶ James007, replying to Margaret, 10, #1047 of 1342 🔗

He has been pretty slow on the issue of children’s educationfor some time, so his comments come quite late in the day. Also you are right without schooling, some parents earning ability is significantly reduced.

On all we have seen since March, it’s incredible to me that a leader with a such a huge majority, can be such a vacuous, jittery, coward.

83268 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to James007, 3, #1048 of 1342 🔗

Yes just this. I don’t understand him.

83305 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to James007, 5, #1049 of 1342 🔗

Because he’s also a charlatan. Several Conservative commentators – Peter Oborne springs to mind immediately – were shouting about exactly this during the Conservative Party leadership campaign.

83247 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, #1050 of 1342 🔗

You ever done a Zoom meeting Margaret?

83251 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to JohnB, #1051 of 1342 🔗

No but my son does them regularly and my grandson has interrupted him on numerous occasions. Why do you ask?

83250 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Margaret, 6, #1052 of 1342 🔗

He is going to use the re-opening of schools as the excuse to renege on the relaxation of ‘measures’. Pubs will be closed again, masks made compulsory in all circumstances, etc. If you don’t go along with it, you’re a monster who doesn’t care about children. It is obvious that his aim is to keep the economy shut down. I wish I knew why.

83257 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1053 of 1342 🔗

The more he gets bogged down in education issues, the more he looks like the English (not UK) PM. Which just boosts Sturgeon’s ratings…

83271 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1054 of 1342 🔗

Businesses must speak up. Please!

83345 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1055 of 1342 🔗

To distract from the huge recession we have entered, did enter in Feb. You know the can we kicked down the road the last time…. remember that?

83408 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1056 of 1342 🔗

If only a few people has suggested it is a planned global reset, with control as one of its prime objectives. 🙂

83497 ▶▶ GrowYourOwn, replying to Margaret, 1, #1057 of 1342 🔗

Scottish schools are returning tomorrow. If they remain open the next three weeks then the unions in England won’t have a leg to stand on. However, if the schools up here close again for some imaginary reason then the English schools won’t re-open.

83223 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #1058 of 1342 🔗

Compulsory wearing of masks outdoors in Paris??

Look at the current death rate in response to the increase in “cases”… NONE!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

83243 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #1059 of 1342 🔗

Oh boy! Coming to a UK city/area near you!

83245 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Moomin, 4, #1060 of 1342 🔗

Yes but it won’t be the powerless Councilors doing it, rather power crazed local government officers.

83270 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1061 of 1342 🔗

Councillors around here are power crazed weaklings – enablers of the power crazed inepts in the LA.

83292 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Basics, 3, #1062 of 1342 🔗

Well Preston Council calling young people granny killers is not looking hopeful. Andy Burnham in Manchester continuing the fear and wanting more draconian measures. I think they will be worse.

83297 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendy, 1, #1063 of 1342 🔗

At least now we know how the “opposition” would be treating us.

83319 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to wendy, #1064 of 1342 🔗

Seriously, when did he say this?

83350 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Moomin, 1, #1065 of 1342 🔗

At this rate I will never leave my house again.

83260 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Lockdown Truth, 17, #1066 of 1342 🔗

honestly this is my biggest fear that we are going to be muzzled going out the front door. I can dodge it with a quick scoot round the supermarket and actually no-one has challenged me, but imagine going for a walk and wearing a mask – just ain’t going to happen.
To be honest i am developing a phobia of seeing masked people, and wearing something over my face and i’m no sissy by any means. I’ve printed the gov exempt piece of paper but doesn’t look convincing.

83264 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Sue, 11, #1067 of 1342 🔗

I understand, I find it really disconcerting seeing people in masks and knowing that my friends and family all go along with it.

83294 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Moomin, 7, #1068 of 1342 🔗

Yes it is horrible. And we know it is pointless. So sorry about your lack of support from friends and family. I am lucky to live with a senior nurse and have doctor friends who think it is all ridiculous. A few friends I have stopped seeing. We need to support each other on this site because a lot of us do feel low spirited from time to time.

83317 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, 3, #1069 of 1342 🔗

Guy in Wethy’s yesterday got up to leave, put mask on to go outside in the fresh air. Of course, this was Darwen, the plague city.

83276 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sue, 6, #1070 of 1342 🔗

Me too, I hate it and just seeing people wearing them makes me uneasy. It is coming, nic Jong un is going to do it and all of supermarket staff will be taking our names or CCTV will be watching us. I’m dreading it.

83403 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 1, #1071 of 1342 🔗

With our thoughts, we make the world.

83300 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sue, 4, #1072 of 1342 🔗

If we go down that route, just remember to carry no ID and do not speak to the boys in blue, or even answer any questions. They might arrest you, but if you do not give your name, they cannot charge you.

83302 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Sue, 6, #1073 of 1342 🔗

No way would I wear a mask in our village just to go up the road and post a letter, or purchase stuff from the village shop which, incidentally, has arranged itself so that it is “outdoors”. Nor indeed would I set off on a six or seven mile walk wearing a face-rag.

83307 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sue, 14, #1074 of 1342 🔗

They can F off if they do decide to make us wear them outdoors. That’s my absolute limit. They can arrest me every single day if they want to. It’s just not happening.

83313 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1075 of 1342 🔗

I’m obviously dead against, but it’s already happening, the sheep are doing it themselves. It’s a natural reaction to them, to think that a mask will protect them from breathing in the deadly virus. And yes, they think their front door stops it too.

83358 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisW, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1076 of 1342 🔗

Absolutely, that would be the point that I go from skirting around the rules to outright ignoring them.

83376 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sue, 1, #1077 of 1342 🔗

I feel the same Sue!

83380 ▶▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Sue, 1, #1078 of 1342 🔗

Hi Sue, what about exemption cards from etsy

https://www.etsy.com/listing/833029582/2-x-face-covermask-exemption-card-travel?ref=landingpage_similar_listing_top-1&frs=1

(although they’re only offering to sell in packs of 2 now at a slightly higher price).

I can say that they definitely look real – and easy enough to hold in your hand whilst shopping, if you’re nervous like I am.

83463 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to HaylingDave, #1079 of 1342 🔗

thanks HaylingDave – they look quite good. But heck these companies are making a buck out of this – well i guess that’s the free market for you.

83393 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Sue, 5, #1080 of 1342 🔗

When my other half goes out proudly displaying his ‘I am exempt’ badge, he gets asked a lot about it by other ‘civilians’ who find it difficult to wear masks but have no idea that they could be exempt.

I spent some time yesterday, having ordered some clear plastic holders via Mr Bezos’ excellent next-day service (50 for under a fiver, complete with pin and clip), printing out Government exemption cards from the gov.uk website. We shall take a few each time we go out, and quietly hand them out. I’ve also printed the exemption blurb from the same website on the back so people know these are ‘legal’.

83293 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #1081 of 1342 🔗

The whole western world, except Sweden and some American States, have totally lost the plot.

83321 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #1082 of 1342 🔗

Germany has introduced compulsory mask wearing by pupils, even during class!
And most parents are happily swallowing it, although doctors have been critical.
Peak insanity cannot be that far off, that’s for sure.

83353 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1083 of 1342 🔗

I don’t think people who protested in Berlin will swallow it

83346 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #1084 of 1342 🔗

Face masks are the adult version of a security blanket. Tell em Linus:

83241 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 2, #1085 of 1342 🔗
83254 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Moomin, 9, #1086 of 1342 🔗

I think teachers should tell the unions that they’re going back, no ifs and butts. If this standoff goes on teachers will find themselves replaced permanently by online/digital teaching and a P45 on their doorstep. They need to stop fannying around and get back to save their job!

83303 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Moomin, 3, #1087 of 1342 🔗

The govt are trumpeting the PHE report on coronavirus in schools (the largest in the world apparently). There is little evidence that the virus is transmitted in schools, and apparently opening schools is “one of the least risky things we can do” when it comes to easing lockdown.

So why do we need to close the pubs then?

83310 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1088 of 1342 🔗

That’s easy. We can only allow so many people to have a life at any one time. Various groups in society will have to ‘rotate’.
Pardon? How long, what? Oh yes, of course this would be permanent…

83279 Moomin, replying to Moomin, #1089 of 1342 🔗

Hi, what is Toby’s email to send him relevant information?

83289 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Moomin, #1090 of 1342 🔗

Think you click on a link in the main article above to send things to him.

83316 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Nick Rose, #1092 of 1342 🔗

Thanks.

83299 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 3, #1093 of 1342 🔗

Just a couple of thoughts and probably stupid questions.

Does antibacterial gel kill a virus.

If somebody has had ‘it’ can they get ‘it’ again or infect anyone, if not why would someone need to wear a mask. I could say I can’t kill your granny as I’ve had it, something to tell the plebs if they ask.

83306 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 4, #1094 of 1342 🔗

If you don’t have it – you might get it. If you’ve had it, you could get it again. If you have no symptoms, you could still be a deadly carrier. If it goes away, it could come back.

Got it yet?

83312 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to stefarm, 6, #1095 of 1342 🔗

Alcohol based gels would kill viruses but who cares?

The official line is that they don’t know how long immunity lasts but Sweden haven’t found anyone who has had Covid twice. The human immune system has developed over millions of years and there are cells which constitute an immune memory-they allow us to mount a quick immune response to a pathogen (virus or bacterium) we have met before. Why Covid should be any different is a mystery to me!! All part of the dissemination of disinformation going on at the moment.

83332 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to DocRC, 2, #1096 of 1342 🔗

The official line about not knowing how long immunity lasts is based on “the Science” where the “the Scientists” have “forgotten,” if they ever knew, that the primary adaptive responce of the immune system goes down after a novel infection, but when a re-infection happens, the secondary adaptive response is usually even stronger (pick any decent virology or immunology book and there’ll be a lovely graph to show just that 😉 )

83337 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IMoz, 3, #1097 of 1342 🔗

Amnesia is not a widely reported symptom of this virus but it seems to have affected even those who’ve not had it.

83364 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1098 of 1342 🔗

Indeed, but talking bullshit is a widely reported symptom of cretins and frauds, I believe 😉

83352 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to DocRC, 2, #1099 of 1342 🔗

All part of the ongoing denaturalisation of humans.

Natural forms of communication – voice, gestures – are becoming increasingly obsolete and replaced by electronic and computerised forms. (Hell, here we are typing away, right?)

Similarly, I suspect the medical and pharma industries are looking to first enhance our immunity with synthetic elements – like RNA vaccines – and perhaps eventually override and replace our immune system altogether. Might be a while, but I’m sure that’s what the tech “visionaries” have in mind.

83480 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DocRC, #1100 of 1342 🔗

Soap will do the job better – and is one measure that does generally have benefits and little downside. But that’s not really about Covid now, since it’s such a rare phenomenon.

83333 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, 2, #1101 of 1342 🔗

You could use hand gel multiple times a day forever or get the virus, statistically have no ill effects and at worst be immune for a few weeks months before you might be at risk again. You might even be immune for years.

I know which one I think is the smarter choice.

83430 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nobody2020, #1102 of 1342 🔗

I’m past the point where I just about want the virus so I can tell all the morons that I’ve already had it so I’m not going to be taking any of their stupid measures to reduce risk (not that I have been mind, beyond what an ordinary hygienic human being would do anyway). The trouble lies in confirmation – I don’t trust the pseudo-test, and I’ve probably had some sort of coronavirus cold in the past so I’d probably not get ill with this one anyway so would have no way of knowing – maybe I’ve already had it 😕

83370 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to stefarm, 2, #1103 of 1342 🔗

There hasn’t been a single proven case of re-infection anywhere in the world. That points to long term immunity. My guess is it’ll be like other coronaviruses. It will mutate into less virulent strains and some of us will catch it from year to year etc.

83456 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1104 of 1342 🔗

It would only need one case and they’d be able to claim that it’s possible.

83504 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to stefarm, #1105 of 1342 🔗

No antibacterial only useful for bacteria, does not kill viruses.

Same as a cold/flu, yes you can’t get it again but it is because it has mutated and you are not ‘immune’ to the new strain. However if you have optimised levels of vitamin D3 and very healthy your body might be able to fight it and prevent infection or be able to fight the infection very well.

Re Granny kill statement – best response “I am exempt”. If you really want to convince someone you could explain that Granny would hopefully improve her immune system, but that all of us fight lots of viruses (including the whole spectrum of current Corona viruses), bacteria and pathogens on a daily basis, not just Covid-19.

83626 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, #1106 of 1342 🔗

Just on if someone has already had it, can they catch it again. What you have to realise here is that the people catching this and being the most significantly affected are people with underlying illnesses and very weak immune systems. I think these people could catch it again as they are immuno compromised, but if you have a totally normal immune systems then I can’t really see that you would catch it twice.

83309 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 16, #1107 of 1342 🔗

I’m really struggling today.

4 weeks ago, I have a major meltdown, self-harm etc. I got over that, but I can’t see the the end to this insanity.

My wife has gone to work and I’m sitting in the kitchen, working at my computer, tears streaming down my face.

I my wife was ventilated in the swine flu epidemic, multi-organ failure etc, luckily no long-term side effects. However, I was not so lucky. Probably PTSD, I put myself into risky positions where somebody could get hurt. To cut a long story short, the inevitable happened, police called, nobody got badly hurt.

I’m scared that my already fragile mental health will take a massive hit because this insanity is, if anything, getting worse not better.

I’ve tried stopping visiting this website and news websites and, short term, it works. But not long term.

Me and Julia bask in the glory of visiting out local supermarkets unmasked, but at some point, a overzealous would-be vigilante will have a go…….

Sorry to whinge 😔

83314 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Winston Smith, 5, #1108 of 1342 🔗

Hi Winston, try and focus on the positives, we can get through this. As a Christian I’d be happy to pray for you.

83371 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Moomin, #1109 of 1342 🔗

Thank you Kevin, that means a lot.

83483 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #1110 of 1342 🔗

No worries, I’ll be praying for you. It comforts me that prayer is the one thing that never can be restricted since it can be done anywhere, anytime and in our heads!

83318 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Winston Smith, 13, #1111 of 1342 🔗

Hang in there, mate, I can tell you I was in the kitchen this morning and yelling my head off at all the stupid bastards who have landed us in this mess. The house was empty, fortunately, bar me. However I imagine the neighbours would think I’d overcooked myself. I just wish, so much, that people would start getting angry. But they aren’t. They are obediently following all instructions, accepting everything they are told. Just what will it take to wake em up? I think the coming financial tsunami will play a large role. I do think it is one of just a few things that might help lift the coma. We need a critical mass.

83342 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to thedarkhorse, 11, #1112 of 1342 🔗

It’s coming. Every time they do something else, equally stupid as everything else they’ve done, more come over. We now get well over a thousand comments here every day. And how many lurkers are there compared to those who post? There are protests, admittedly small, popping up in all the major cities. Sceptics are starting to meet each other and exchange ideas. Some of us are lone wolves and prefer to act alone (there are reasons for that).

Slowly, too slowly perhaps but it is a beginning, the tide is turning.

83374 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nick Rose, #1113 of 1342 🔗

I hope so

83347 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to thedarkhorse, 9, #1114 of 1342 🔗

I am most upset with the young generation. My daughter just accepted 2 hours face to face tuition at London University without being angry. But I have decided that I will not pay for a new rent contact as she can commute from home once or twice a week.
That will be a shock to her when I tell her later this week.

83379 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to JulieR, 2, #1115 of 1342 🔗

I hate what’s happening to our children, I’m getting so angry on their behalf, because they don’t seen to be.

83474 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1116 of 1342 🔗

Looking at our four – I am surprised at their (relative) calmness and acceptance, coming from four young adults who are passionate about many things concerning morality and society.

But I also understand : they have to get on with life; they have to cope with work – such as it is.

I can’t say to them, honestly, that my anger and offense at what is being perpetrated is a better way of coping or surviving.

The evil of the SPI-B offensive is hard for them to understand; they feel it will pass and stupid (rather than evil) people will get back in their box.

83439 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to JulieR, 2, #1117 of 1342 🔗

2 hours face2face contact a week – doesn’t sound much for the £9k fees they charge!!

83373 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to thedarkhorse, #1118 of 1342 🔗

thank you

83604 ▶▶▶ Luckyluke1976, replying to thedarkhorse, #1119 of 1342 🔗

Agree. However, the people that got us in this mess (hint: It’s not Boris, Macron, Mark Rutte or Merkel) might be bastards, but they are not stupid. They know exactly what they’re doing. Creating a public psychosis, taking away personal freedom, then giving the impression of reopening only to revert to tyranny. It’s designed to break us down little by little. Panic, desperation, abandon, hatred for fellow citizen, it’s all worked out in dictatorships in the past. But if we don’t obey, there’s nothing they can do. This is not Pol Pot’s Cambodia or Stalin’s Russia. That’s why they rely on sheeple. Critical mass will be reached when stupidity meets poverty, i.e. massive layoffs coupled with visors, gloves, goggles and diapers. If you can have 1 million people on the streets in Germany, UK, Netherlands, Serbia and others in spite of a constant barrage of lies by MSM, the end of this vile social experiment cannot be far. And once the emperor is naked, it will all come down like a house of cards.

83322 ▶▶ James, replying to Winston Smith, 5, #1120 of 1342 🔗

I understand you. I think of this as psychological and economic warfare. Just like the world changed forever after World War 1, I can’t hold on to the future being the same as the past. I’ve been helped by reading about Stoicisim and the prayer ‘Give me the strength to accept things I cannot change, courage to change things I can and the wisdom to know the difference’.
Finding some kind of meditation, spiritual or philosophical practice has helped so much. Otherwise the stress overwhelms. Good luck on your journey 🙂

83381 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to James, #1121 of 1342 🔗

thank you, Rumi helps

83331 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #1122 of 1342 🔗

Are you in touch with any local dissenters (other than your wife, if she agrees with you on this)? I think this kind of virtual interaction, while infinitely better than thinking you are alone in your dissent, is ultimately no substitute for direct human interaction with someone you can agree with at least on this issue, and talk things through with, perhaps think up some direct action.

83400 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mark, #1123 of 1342 🔗

My pals at training are all like me, the senior grades all trained throughout this madness, almost like a underground fight club….. It’s helped a lot.

My wife is a complete sceptic (wrong word really) and she is the reason that I haven’t done something stupid already.

83562 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1124 of 1342 🔗

Yes, forgot you are a martial artist. That’s definitely a big help imo.

83348 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #1125 of 1342 🔗

I highly recommend arranging to meet someone from this site or maybe attend KBF meeting? Talking face to face with like-minded people is fantastic for mental well-being. I also recommend hypnosis/meditation. The Calm app has helped me through many a tough time.

83401 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Sarigan, #1126 of 1342 🔗

thank you

83667 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sarigan, #1127 of 1342 🔗

Skeptics Anonymous

83369 ▶▶ Felice, replying to Winston Smith, 8, #1128 of 1342 🔗

I had a melt down recently (when the threat of face masks was first mooted) and my daughter has had several (she lives alone and a hour 2 hour drive from us).
What helped me was to do something as normal as possible. I’m fortunate in that I live near open countryside, so a walk has helped greatly. Not so good if you live in a city. My daughter lives in Sheffield, where there are lots of parks, and she found it helped to go and watch the ducks and ducklings at some point every day.
Another huge help after my melt down, was when a friend called and we went and had coffee together. We sat outside – she got the coffee, masked, and then we sat and chatted for an hour and it felt soooo good.

On the mask side, download the exemption card. It sounds as though the thought of wearing a mask is causing you severe distress. Buy a sunflower lanyard as that is so obvious and should make people think twice about challenging you. And if they do, just wave it at you and walk away. If you have mentally prepared yourself and practised as to how you will respond when challenged – a calm ‘I’m exempt’ and walk away – it might help.

I feel for you, I really do.

83412 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Felice, #1129 of 1342 🔗

Thank you Felice

83382 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #1130 of 1342 🔗

I did notice you went absent after showing signs of deterioration. I could tell from your posts that things weren’t good.

I’m sorry I didn’t say anything. I’m not particularly empathetic to even those close to me. Hang in there is all I can say. It’s only been a few months although it almost seems like a lifetime.

83414 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nobody2020, #1131 of 1342 🔗

Thank you, that means a lot. No apologies necessary, I know that people care.

83392 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Winston Smith, 5, #1132 of 1342 🔗

You’re not whingeing. I bet there’s a lot of this going on behind closed doors, only most people don’t go on LS. I should think you’re just the tip of the iceberg.
A friend in prison tells me they’ve been on 23 hour lockdown since it started (we don’t hear much about this) and he’s seen any number of self harming cases, attempted suicides etc. One man stopped cleaning himself, his clothes had to be disposed of as a biohazard.
Mikhaila Peterson was saying in an interview, if you lock up a lot of animals in cages for months, what do you expect?
My prison friend gets by with black humour and watching a lot of nature programmes. I guess I get by by writing to him. He keeps me sane.

83440 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #1133 of 1342 🔗

Thank you, hopefully I won’t be joining your friend in prison.

83402 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Winston Smith, 8, #1134 of 1342 🔗

I know. It’s one horrible situation that we are in. Yes it just keeps getting worse. It’s relentless. The best option is to try to opt out. I know it feels like you have “lost” or have failed to stop the madness by “giving in”. However it does help. Try to say to yourself that the people will eventually realise what is going on and do something to stop it. Have faith in them even although it hard to do that right now.

What is playing out is a scripted global business plan. I don’t know if that help but it does put what is happening into context. More fool the idiots who think its about a virus.

Let them enjoy their servitude in their hot sweaty face nappies.

83441 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Two-Six, #1135 of 1342 🔗

thank you

83421 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #1136 of 1342 🔗

Hi Winston,
Do you need company? Whereabouts are you?
I m sorry you re feeling so crap. I have good days and bad.
I have 3 children so staying in the moment for them is what helps
me the most. That and switching off the computer and getting out
into nature. Are there people nearby that you can talk/walk/swim with?
sending hugs

83435 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to watashi, #1137 of 1342 🔗

Thank you watashi, my wife left for work this morning and I started working at home, it hit me that I felt so dreadfully alone.

This has helped.

83428 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #1138 of 1342 🔗

bro you sound to me like you’re taking life too seriously. Ain’t nothing you can’t handle. I’m still having the time of my life, why shouldn’t you? Don’t fall into the trap of believing you can be cured of whatever it is you think makes you like your post suggests. It’s just a reality tunnel you’re in. You can change it any time you like. Why choose to be miserable when that sucks? choose to be something else. You are the imagination of yourself.

83449 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 4, #1139 of 1342 🔗

Jesus Biker, you’ve hit the nail on the head!

You are my inner voice.

Right, fuck this, I’m going to get things done and enjoy myself!

83448 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #1140 of 1342 🔗

As a part reassurance – many, many individuals are suffering from psychological symptoms. It’s not just you or your history.

Some people manage to put it out of mind – and they have a point, because facing the reality of the loss of control and the degradation of an entire society isn’t easy – or necessarily healthy.

But many of us don’t find that a technique that works, because it contradicts our basic knowledge and sense of self and society. And it’s a hard road to deal with the brainwashing of people that we know and the corruption of some of the basic taken-for-granted aspects of moral and social life.

Even convinced and convincing contrarians feel this psychological pressure.

It’s not just you.

83458 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to RickH, #1141 of 1342 🔗

I know that really, thank you.

83451 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #1142 of 1342 🔗

You can get through this. I’ve had days where everything seems hopeless and the thought of harming myself has been very strong, but I’ve got through them and you can too. Just remember you are not alone in this and whatever the authorities throw at us we are stong enough to handle it, even if sometimes it feels like we can’t and won’t ever be able to.

83460 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to DomW, #1143 of 1342 🔗

Thank you.

83457 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1144 of 1342 🔗

Thank you to all of you, all of your responses helped.

83334 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 9, #1145 of 1342 🔗

I keep asking myself this question:

Why, if the government really wanted everyone to wear a mask, do they make it so easy for us to opt out?

  1. You go to the government website
  2. You select the card exemption page
  3. You print it out
  4. You don’t need a doctor’s note
  5. You carry it with you everywhere you go.
  6. No one is allowed to challenge you about why you have this card
  7. You don’t have to be disabled/have a serious illness to have this card. It isn’t like the Blue Badge scheme. You won’t get prosecuted for using it wrongly
  8. The government knows people will take advantage of the scheme.

Any suggestions?

83338 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 5, #1146 of 1342 🔗

Arse covering, in the full knowledge that most will comply anyway. If they do it, brilliant, if they don’t, well we tried but obviously there are exemptions…

83464 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Sam Vimes, #1147 of 1342 🔗

Completely agree. Perhaps masks should have “This mask is covering this government’s arse” printed on them.

83344 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Margaret, 5, #1148 of 1342 🔗

To keep up the facade of liberty

83354 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Margaret, 4, #1149 of 1342 🔗

Hi, yes I agree about the facade of liberty – but actively encourage a climate of public shaming to deal with the non-mask wearers.

83363 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Margaret, 9, #1150 of 1342 🔗

I believe the most plausible argument is one that has been made here by a number of commenters, namely that the government know there is no real danger from the disease. It’s all about theatre and manipulation. They introduced the compulsory masks because they needed to get people back out to start getting the economy moving, to try to halt the ongoing damage their panic response has caused, but they can’t admit the absence of danger from the disease because that might make people question their own role in panicking. They thought that masks would make people feel safe because supposed precautions were being taken against the supposed danger, and it would also give them a feeling of control over the risk, because it puts supposed protection in their own hands.

Even on that basis, it’s incompetent because it actually has the opposite effect. Seeing masks all around and seeing the government impose unprecedented compulsory “emergency” measures actually reinforces people in their false belief that there is real danger, and the evidence is too unconvincing for people to really believe in masks as a protection.

But competence is not a feature of this government, nor is real intelligence or wisdom on the part of the individuals composing it, nor those advising it.

Nor, it’s important to recall, are those things features of any of the mainstream opposition parties or political groups, all of whom basically share the delusions of the government in this regard and most of whom want to push them even harder, not relax them.

Anyway, this theory addresses the inherent contradiction between the supposedly emergency nature of this measure and the almost complete absence of real enforcement. They could easily have made the law require a doctor’s letter to be carried to permit exemption, and contested any human rights based moves against it by pleading necessity and emergency, but they didn’t.

83436 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #1151 of 1342 🔗

Both the malfeasance and incompetence arguments work to explain the manufacture of this fictional narrative.

How does a government that has splashed out a pile of speculative dosh on an unnecessary and unproven/untested vaccine get out of the hole that it has dug for itself?

83468 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 2, #1152 of 1342 🔗

I think the amount spent on vaccines is a drop in the ocean next to the economic costs alone that they’ve imposed directly by their panic reaction.

83367 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Margaret, 3, #1153 of 1342 🔗

Because it’s not a necessity for safety, just a nice idea. Many people go around saying it might help but don’t question whether it’s actually necessary.

They’re quite happy for laws to be passed on the basis that it’s a nice idea.

83413 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Margaret, 4, #1154 of 1342 🔗

You don’t need even a card. All you need is the courage to say that you are exempt, that and nothing more.

83536 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #1155 of 1342 🔗

Agree DDS and that’s how I started off but no-one questioned me then, so by wearing a visible sign, there are far more opportunities for me to make quite a few Damascene conversions, which is my aim.

83601 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Margaret, #1156 of 1342 🔗

Those needing rounding up at the appropriate time self identify saving much valuable time and money.

83664 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1157 of 1342 🔗

Yes that too, since obviously we are the perfect mark in our surveillance society.

83649 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, #1158 of 1342 🔗

It’s to make you believe you still have free will.

83660 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, #1159 of 1342 🔗

It’s because they wanted us fighting in the aisles about who is exempt and who isn’t, those fights would be all the rage on Twitter and distract from the governments ineptitude.

83335 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #1160 of 1342 🔗

The massive obstacle that we sceptics face, and the enormous power of that obstacle to the government, can be packed into two, eight word sentences:

“If I get the virus, I will die.”
“If I wear a mask, I am protected”.

They, the Sheeple, hold those ‘truths’ to be self-evident.

83351 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #1161 of 1342 🔗

Many years ago, during a comedy/news radio programme discussing satellite dishes festooning houses, the late great Alan Coren said that he actually rather liked them because they indicated to him that there lived in those houses people he would want nothing to do with.
I’m starting to feel the same about mask wearers.

83360 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1162 of 1342 🔗

You mis-quoted “their” logic there, instead of:-

If I wear a mask, I am protected

it is

If you wear a mask, I am protected

And if you ask them why, it’s Emperor’s New Clothes all over again!

83384 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to IMoz, 3, #1163 of 1342 🔗

They think they are protecting themselves, it’s clear from the way they wear them while walking down an empty street. Completely wrong of course.

83368 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1165 of 1342 🔗

It’s an ideology and that is a very hard mindset to change.

83427 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #1166 of 1342 🔗

Masks are quite literally the tin foil hats of 2020… ironic that is is, of course, mask wearers that accuse *us* of being tin-foil hat wearers for not believing all the garbage.

83336 AMZ, replying to AMZ, 3, #1167 of 1342 🔗

Apologies if this has been posted but why is MSM not reporting this?!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/09/daily-covid-death-count-could-scrapped/

Holy crap …

83343 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to AMZ, 6, #1168 of 1342 🔗

Not enough fear level left in the figures so, like toddlers, they drop that particular “toy” and wander around trying to find another to scare us with. It’s pathetic.

83658 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to tallandbald, #1169 of 1342 🔗

That’s what the holiday destination wakamole is all about, get us worrying about cases all over the world since they can’t find enough here.

83423 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AMZ, 2, #1170 of 1342 🔗

Note this, tho’ :

“Meanwhile Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, reportedly holds the view that excess deaths are the best measure to use”

Which is a nonsense, since – as, again the CEBM team has shown – ‘excess deaths’ are another modelling projection and can vary according to what form of regression or comparitor is used :

In some years excess deaths will seem better or worse depending on the comparator used – comparing with the year with the least deaths, for instance, would inflate the excess.”

“accounting for the yearly variations suggests there are 31,417 excess deaths so far in 2020, which is much less than the 54,000 predicted using the 5-year average.”

… are two extracts from two of their papers on the subject

Given the complete shambles that has been made of accurate death registrations, and thus the causal attribution to Covid, we are thrown back on the logical extension of William Farr’s recognition that all-cause deaths are the only realiable indicator.

As, I’ve said before, ‘excess deaths’ are simply a figure that represents the actual error when a projection is tested against reality. Any reasonable time series shows how death rates vary in both long- and short-term periodicity, such that, for instance, a short five-year baseline can give an entirely misleading impression.

That is particularly true at the current time, where it is clear that the trend mortality is beginning to generally rise again after a period when it has been unusually low.

83340 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1171 of 1342 🔗

‘Countries with Covid rate of 20 per 100,000 to be added to UK quarantine list’
https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/382263/countries-with-covid-rate-of-20-per-100000-to-be-added-to-uk-quarantine-list

I wouldn’t plan on going anywhere based on those criteria and increased testing! 1 in 5000!

83356 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1172 of 1342 🔗

Deaths have fallen off, hospitalisations have done the same. Now we have ‘cases’. When new cases fall off, do you think they will go for ‘previous cases’? You know, “There are X many people who have recovered, but may still harbour the virus, so it could come back, and eat the world” type of thing?
They will have to think of something to keep it going.

83378 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1173 of 1342 🔗

Don’t worry, they’ll switch to flu from covid!

83424 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to IMoz, 7, #1174 of 1342 🔗

That’s the nightmare scenario, as well as the next logical step.

We have been pointing out the insanity of reacting to a flu-like disease as though it’s much more dangerous, pointing out that we should treat covid like we do flu. But the logical counter is that we don’t treat flu seriously enough.

Once the precedents have been established and people have been accustomed to living like hygiene obsessives, it won’t be a big step to hiding from flus and colds in the same way. All the same exaggerations and irrationalities apply in much the same ways. And the truth is that plenty of people have been wanting that previously, they’ve just been unable to break through the wall of common sense that has been smashed by the coronapanic. And of course there’s plenty of money to be made by many already very wealthy and powerful interest groups by making routine diseases into medical emergencies.

And the more we hide from the routine diseases, the more dangerous they actually are, because that’s how our immune systems work.

83385 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1175 of 1342 🔗

They’ll move to “potential” cases. Back of the fag packet calculation of how many they think have had it, how many old people still at risk, blah, blah. Just Imperial Modelling reworked.

83540 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Achilles, #1176 of 1342 🔗

I hate to say it but I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, I can imagine it now all over the news and press conferences of how we need to be vigilant at all times for the potential of outbreaks…

83657 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #1177 of 1342 🔗

Next will be horror stories about ‘Contacts!’
“Each suspected Case might have had up 15 contacts; that could be 1,500 just yesterday or up to 550,000 a year, just like that nice Professor Ferguson predicted”.

83399 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1178 of 1342 🔗

Fairly simple idea : discourage foreign travel, and fewer people will learn what a shit country this has become (even tho’ a few destinations are also pretty shit at the moment).

Sweden on the ‘verboten’ list? Work it out.

83359 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1179 of 1342 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53690711

There have been between 1 and 3 deaths per day in Vietnam in the last week.

Easily done with the most modest of repurposing of other causes of death.

Has Vietnam taken another helping from the new Trillion dollars of aid the IMF announced on Friday?

83416 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #1180 of 1342 🔗

The way the BBC reports that as if we should be looking up to this shows how far free society has fallen in such a short time. Read this bit, they’re not critical of such draconian actions, but why they’ve got the horrendous toll of a whopping 10 people dead instead. Life as we knew it is well a truly over, the UK is no longer a free society in the true sense. Our biggest broadcaster now has us aspiring to and praising authoritarianism.

“It quarantined and tested anyone who entered the country in government facilities, and conducted widespread contact-tracing and testing nationwide.

So what went wrong?”

83362 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 15, #1181 of 1342 🔗

This thought may have been shared on here before (it certainly wasn’t my insight, so I must have read it somewhere); if so, apologies.

To those enthusing about the “new normal” and how great it will be to work from home, we should point out to them that whilst it might be wonderful to no longer have to commute into the big cities, since they can do their job over the internet, it will soon dawn on their bosses that their jobs can be done over the internet from Bangalore or the Philippines, instead of Hemel Hempstead or wherever, for half the wage. This equally applies to teachers.

83388 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Aremen, 13, #1182 of 1342 🔗

It is my contention that ANY job that can presently be done, full time, over the internet will at some point cease to exist. A.I. will see to this.

I don’t think people have realised it yet but the only really important jobs are those that can’t be done by or with a computer. Think, builders, nurses, engineers, road builders, maintenance workers, sewerage engineers, refuse collectors and manual and physical workers of all kinds. If you can presently do your job from home it is—and I don’t intend to demean the work that people presently do from home—mostly shuffling numbers and passing info around from person to person.

If you need your roof fixed you can’t get it done from someone working at home.

83640 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Harry hopkins, #1183 of 1342 🔗

Many years ago I overheard a conversation between a group of tradesmen in the pub. They had some sort of share buying club and were exploring their next move.
The last chap to voice his opinion said “Buy Newcastle Brewery”
‘WTF ? why ?’
“You will never, ever, be able to get pissed on the internet.”

83411 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Aremen, 6, #1184 of 1342 🔗

I just pointed this out to our Business ‘Improvement’ District chairwoman. All these people banging on about how they are enjoying working from home won’t be as smug when their jobs are transferred abroad. She reckoned it wouldn’t happen – “companies won’t do that …. and education is far superior in the UK” And this response is why I don’t rate her ability to have any kind of involvement in making decisions that affect the town’s businesses.

83646 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, #1185 of 1342 🔗

15 years ago a local chap had built up a successful business manufacturing up market garden statuary in the village he grew up in.
Although the boss he was one of the boys with the 15+ local workforce some of whom had been to school with him.

Then he caught the offshoring bug, laid off his workers and set up shop in China.
Obviously no longer popular in the village he went on to lose his shirt in China ending up with just the copyright to his early designs.

83695 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, #1186 of 1342 🔗

Karma. I think our BID chairwoman is incredibly naive to think that companies won’t cut costs in this way. Our council has said that they aren’t even considering their office staff going back until March next year. Probably eyeing up selling the very attractive council offices for re-development (that’s what they did with the police station!).

I used to work in the City years ago and outsourcing was very popular. It was also disasterous in that efficiency and accuracy was hugely compromised. I spoke out about it (sort of whistle-blew) and lost my job as a result.

83419 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Aremen, #1187 of 1342 🔗

Yep

83432 ▶▶ davews, replying to Aremen, 1, #1188 of 1342 🔗

Retired now. but in my earlier job as an electronic design engineer the job simply could not be done from home. It needed loads of specialist test equipment in laboratories, clean rooms, and moreover talking to military customers under the official secrets act. OK, that was many years ago. But I guess it comes down to nowadays we no longer design and manufacture in this country so those kind of jobs are getting much rarer. But sending secret documents over a domestic internet connection surely must be a no go.

83443 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to davews, 1, #1189 of 1342 🔗

The electronics industry has been whittled down to bare bones here in Scotland. Design work can be done abroad where labour is a fraction of the cost. IP and licensing are generally what the industry consists of now. You only need a handful of engineers to know their stuff and be able to show people around the world how to use your design software.

83366 Klein, replying to Klein, 8, #1190 of 1342 🔗

Morning…well its finally happened; masks mandatory in N.I from today in shops.

People don’t want this here, judging by the amount of people I saw yesterday going in and out of a couple of petrol stations while out on the motorbike. About 5-10% wearing masks, if even.

They’ve made them mandatory because they didn’t like the fact that people were just ignoring them.

I won’t be wearing one, but must admit I’m anxious about the first time I go in without. I’ll only be buying essentials and garden centre stuff – anything else will be bought online.

I’m in a relatively small town and hardly anyone has worn them up until now – but can some of you with more experience in shopping in England or Scotland give me some tips / details on your experiences – how to deal with different situations?

The funny thing about this is that I do actually have OCD – though its well controlled through medication.The masks and obsessions with sanitizing seem to me to be a classical compulsion to combat fear and a feelings of uncertainty.

83375 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Klein, 3, #1191 of 1342 🔗

Most of the big chain supermarkets over here are fine, and are not chasing people. Smaller places seem to vary more, dependent on owner I guess.

83407 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Klein, 4, #1192 of 1342 🔗

Yes reading their justification for it was surreal – ‘we’re making this mandatory because you didn’t do it enough when we pretended it was optional’ is what it essentially boiled down to. Given 5-10% take up when optional, and tiny tiny numbers, there is zero scientific justification (as always) and yet now the entire population suffers.

83415 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Klein, 3, #1193 of 1342 🔗

i don’t even think about it now, i don’t even notice the mask wearers any more either. I’m back to just getting my messages like before.

83417 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Klein, 2, #1194 of 1342 🔗

Same as biker, no mask no real bother from the cretins however I have only been to the supermarket once a week.

83471 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Klein, 1, #1195 of 1342 🔗

Staff at bigger stores will have been briefed not try and enforce it, if you can self identify as Exempt a shopkeeper may not enquire about your Disability, you do not need Dr.s note, the same applies should the police get involved but they won’t.

If the shopkeeper bars you entry after being told you are exempt he/she is guilty of Disability Discrimination. They will have received no advice about this so it might be nice if you did so, pleasantly

83478 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1196 of 1342 🔗

Oh, and as for anybody else sticking their oar in it is no more their business than the colour of the shoes you are wearing, or not.

83481 ▶▶▶▶ Klein, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1197 of 1342 🔗

Thanks :-).

I’ve downloaded that pdf on my phone anyway as a ‘last resort’.

83515 ▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Klein, #1198 of 1342 🔗

I have yet to use it but I am keeping one of these with my other cards when I go shopping. It is a cheap insurance policy

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/833029582/2-x-face-covermask-exemption-card-travel?ref=search_srv-2&frs=1

83624 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Klein, #1199 of 1342 🔗

I wear an exemption card when shopping, and so far it has been fine. Quite soon I’ll probably just keep it in my pocket as backup if needed.

83377 stewart, replying to stewart, 13, #1200 of 1342 🔗

One more nail in the coffin of freedom and democracy today: free speech advocate and billionaire Jimmy Lai arrested in HK together with employees of his newspaper under the new Chinese security laws.

Most people will feel this is far away from us, but it isn’t. Our government has already adopted Chinese totalitarian practices – lockdowns and micro-management of our daily lives, compulsory masks.

“Hate speech” laws and regulations are already suffocating free speech. 100% digital currency is around the corner, which means total financial control of every individual via the banks.

The western world doesn’t just import Chinese goods anymore, it is importing Chinese totalitarian government.

83387 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to stewart, 1, #1201 of 1342 🔗

If, say, the Russians, were paying someone in the UK to instigate riots, would you oppose the arrest of that instigator?

83410 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to IMoz, 2, #1202 of 1342 🔗

People here generally don’t understand that our government interfering in other countries’ affairs is just as cynical and obnoxious as the reverse. They just think it’s “promoting freedom” or some such, and the groups that are “on our side” are necessarily good.

83490 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Mark, -1, #1203 of 1342 🔗

People forgot what actually started the HK riots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Poon_Hiu-wing

83495 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to IMoz, #1204 of 1342 🔗

Yes I would oppose it, for a simple reason. Who gets to decide what constitutes instigation? “Instigate a riot” sounds very simple and straight forward but it isn’t. I’ve seen comments on this site about taking things “into our own hands” etc. Is that instigation? Is a half joking, half serious comment about armed insurrection instigating a riot?

Ultimately I don’t trust anyone making judgments for all of us about what constitutes instigation.

83496 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to stewart, -1, #1205 of 1342 🔗

How about receiving funds and using those funds to directly counsel, procure, air, or abet, because that’s what I think the Chinese’s problem with that guy are…

83391 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to stewart, 2, #1206 of 1342 🔗

It is astonishing how the government have been so willing to implement it & how easily they have got away with it. It is truly the actions of a totalitarian state where individual freedom has been cast aside.

83397 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 4, #1207 of 1342 🔗

All these years Lab/Lib Dems have pretended they were for liberal policies in the face of Tories chipping away at our freedoms (the snoopers charter, banning porn etc) at it turns out all the Tories had to do was take a leaf out of the Simpsons and screech ‘won’t somebody think of the children!’ and blather on about it being for our own good and grannies health that they take away everything from us.

That they’re all equally culpable in this is probably the most worrying thing – there is no where to turn and no one to represent us… and yet still the vast majority of the public are cheering their own demise. The only person I’ve managed to ‘turn’ is my Mum, who now sees that it’s mostly bullshit, but both her (and my wife, as it happens) still bow to the mask mandate for fear of fines – which is probably very common. I’ve simply not been in a shop since it came in, though wish I had the courage of others on here to do it, I have no ‘real’ exemption to fall back on should anyone really bother me – very mild asthma [no pump needed regularly], I do have eczema which the mask would exacerbate and they without doubt make me angry, but I’d probably struggle to justify exemption on any of those grounds.

83461 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark II, 7, #1208 of 1342 🔗

The trick is to understand the worst that can happen and accept it. I’ve yet to wear a mask, don’t wear an exemption “permit”, and haven’t had any problems yet. But if they come, I’ll deal with them.

There are two potential things that could happen if you don’t wear a mask in a supermarket (where the staff have now pretty much all been told not to question people). First, there could be a confrontation with another customer. Those you can deal with as you would any other possible public confrontation – escalate or deescalate as you prefer.

The second is that in theory (my impression is that this is vanishingly rare, and may not be happening at all) you could be confronted by police. If so, just tell them you are exempt and who you are and refuse to tell them anything else. In particular, decline to say why you are exempt and explain that you understand you are not required to do so because the information’s private. You’re more likely to suffer from telling a lie to the police than refusing to give them information. The worst they can do is issue you with a ticket. You can either pay it or refuse and go to court (and past experience suggests such cases might end up not being pursued anyway), but it’s no more than a speeding ticket, unless your job makes you unusually sensitive to minor convictions. If that’s so then just make sure you leave before any confrontation gets up to where police might attend.

In the end, you will most likely have plenty of opportunities to deescalate and walk away, if that’s what you prefer.

In this case, I think you really do have little to fear other than the fear itself.

83477 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mark, 1, #1209 of 1342 🔗

I’m envious of your confidence but hopefully I will get round to doing it soon.

I’ve always hated confrontation of any kind. Though I have to deal with it sometimes through no choice of mine (as a cyclist I’ve had people quite literally drive their car at me on the wrong side of the road, deliberately cut me up etc and then get out to scream at me for no reason) it usually leaves me physically shaking – a bit of both adrenaline & fear I guess. My fear is some jumped up loon who is so convinced I’m a potential threat to their life will end up literally shouting at me in the middle of a shop, whilst walking away there would be an option, the embarrassment & humiliation is an unpleasant thought. I know it’s unlikely, but it’s a lot more likely than any of us dying of Covid itself haha!

83488 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark II, 2, #1210 of 1342 🔗

This was posted here yesterday, it’s quite good at pointing out the error of allowing fear to rule us:

How to Be More Afraid!
I know it’s easy for me to say it and a lot harder to do it, but… just do it.

Most likely nothing bad will happen. If the worst does happen, how bad is it, really? Does it help to reason that you are making the same mistake as the coronapanickers here? (I mean in terms of logic, obviously unlike them you aren’t inflicting massive damage on society).

Take an exemption printout with you first time. It might give you additional deescalation options should you feel the need for them.

83499 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Klein, replying to Mark, 3, #1211 of 1342 🔗

Hi Mark – spot on. It is something I learnt in regards to overcoming OCD. The only way to do so is expose yourself to the fear / uncertainty.
I’m going to get a coffee and visit the shop in a bit, and face the fear! Thanks mate

83503 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Klein, #1212 of 1342 🔗

Shabash, mate!

83633 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Klein, #1213 of 1342 🔗

It’s their fear Klein, don’t be a prisoner of it, as someone said here a while back.

83537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Mark II, #1214 of 1342 🔗

You can always try following this toolkit as well, giving you all the info you need to back you up
http://laworfiction.com/2020/07/face-covering-litigation-threats-and-administrative-headache/

83635 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1215 of 1342 🔗

Yup, got the pdf of the rules

83629 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark II, #1216 of 1342 🔗

Just be brave the first time MarkII, then it’s like riding a bike.

83485 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark, 1, #1217 of 1342 🔗

It doesn’t matter if you do get a ticket from the cops, its like a parking fine or driving in a bus lane or dropping litter. A fixed penalty notice. No criminal record.

83615 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, #1218 of 1342 🔗

I would go to Court for non payment of fine, I would then produce medical evidence of my conditions = Case Dismissed.

83383 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 7, #1219 of 1342 🔗

I wonder how many are now wearing masks to hide their mask-induced sores, dry skin, candidiasis, contact/perioral dermatitis, etc?..

83390 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to IMoz, 4, #1220 of 1342 🔗

Like QE1 whose lead based makeup caused her terrible skin conditions that had to be hidden with. . .

83398 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1221 of 1342 🔗

That sounds like a great business plan! 😉

83389 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #1222 of 1342 🔗

I have noticed a lot of broken windows on my daily walks recently. Pure speculation but I think mask wearing has emboldened people to do such things as vandalism and other petty crimes under the guise of anonymity. It can only really escalate.

Another unintended consequence?

83479 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1223 of 1342 🔗

Mrs 2-6 was working in her care home in peak lockdown and a masked up hoody smashed in the windows of the care home while they were inside with a baseball bat and ran off. Cops thought it was related to another flat, either the guy got the wrong flat or he did their windows to show he could do the target flats windows too. Another flat in the same block got targeted a short while later too. Obviously Mrs 2-6 was very traumatised. Just horrible for her.

Yes masked-up windows smashing I think is on the up.

83614 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Nobody2020, #1224 of 1342 🔗

Last week I saw four youths on two motor cycles illegally riding across a public park. They were all masked up using black scarves across the lower part of their faces.

83405 Aremen, replying to Aremen, #1225 of 1342 🔗

Hopefully, my many previous posts on here have established my anti-lockdown credentials. I say this because I’ve copied below a pro-anti-social distancing, pro-mask document which I think readers will nevertheless find interesting. This was given to me by a neighbour who has fully bought into the “we’re doomed” mindset. I have scanned it as a pdf, un-pdf’ed it and corrected some of the grammatical mistakes both in the original and caused by the un-pdf’ing process to make it readable. The wording is still clumsy in places. I say this because I’m suspicious of it. The grammar and syntax are poor. It may therefore be a spoof circulating the internet. Nevertheless, the notions in it seem worthy of consideration, even if the concluding exhortations are not what we would agree with.

A professor of pharmacy at U of Toronto sent this clearly worded update to his family.

For this pandemic there’s a greater chance of survival for those getting infected 3 months later, like June 2020, than those who got infected 3 months earlier, say February 2020. The reason for this is that Doctors and scientists know more about COVID-19 now than 3 months ago, and hence are able to treat patients better. I will list 5 important things that we know now that we didn’t know in February 2020 for your understanding.

1. COVID-19 was initially thought to cause deaths due to pneumonia – a lung infection – and so ventilators were thought to be the best way to treat sick patients who couldn’t breathe. Now we are realizing that the virus causes blood clots in the blood vessels of the lungs and other parts of the body; and this causes the reduced oxygenation. Now we know that just providing oxygen by ventilators will not help, but we have to prevent and dissolve the micro clots in the lungs. This is why we are using drugs like Aspirin and Heparin (blood thinners that prevent clotting) as protocol in treatment regimens in June 2020.

2. Previously patients used to drop dead on the road, or even before reaching a hospital, due to reduced oxygen in their blood – OXYGEN SATURATION. This was because of HAPPY HYPOXIA – where even though the oxygen saturation was gradually reducing, the COVID-19 patients did not have symptoms until it became critically less, like sometimes even 70%. Normally we become breathless if oxygen saturation reduces below 90%. This breathlessness is not triggered in Covid patients, and so we were getting the sick patients very late to the hospitals, in February 2020. Now, since knowing about happy hypoxia, we are monitoring oxygen saturation of all covid patients with a simple home use pulse oximeter and getting them to hospital if their oxygen saturation drops to 93% or less. This gives more time for doctors to correct the oxygen deficiency in the blood and a better survival chance in June 2020.

3. We did not have drugs to fight the corona virus in February 2020. We were only treating the complications caused by it… hypoxia. Hence most patients became severely infected.

Now we have 2 important medicines:

FAVIPIRAVIR & REMDESIVIR

These are ANTIVIRALS that can kill the corona virus. By using these two medicines we can prevent patients from becoming severely infected and therefore cure them BEFORE THEY GO TO HYPOXIA. This knowledge we have in JUNE 2020… not in February 2020.

4. Many Covid-19 patients die not just because of the virus, but also due the patient’s own immune system responding ln an exaggerated manner called CYTOKINE STORM. This stormy strong immune response not only kills the virus but also kills the patients. ln February 2020, we didn’t know how to prevent it from happening. Now in June 2020, we know that easily available medicines called Steroids, that doctors around the world have been using for almost 80 years, can be used to prevent the cytokine storm in some patients.

5. Now we also know that people with hypoxia became better just by making them lie down on their belly – known as prone position. Apart from this, a few days ago, Israeli scientists have discovered that a chemical known as Alpha Defensin, produced by the patients’ white blood cells, can cause the micro clots in blood vessels of the lungs; and this could possibly be prevented by a drug called Colchicine, used over many decades in the treatment of Gout.

So now we know for sure that patients have a better chance at surviving the COVID-19 infection, in June 2020, than in February 2020, for sure.

Going forward, there’s nothing to panic about Covid-19 – if we remember that a person who gets infected later, has a better chance at survival, than one who got infected early.

Let’s continue to follow precautions, wear masks and practise social distancing. Please distribute this message, as we all need some positive news…

83445 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Aremen, 6, #1226 of 1342 🔗

That is an example of corona horror propaganda and is worthy only of the bin. 80 % of people who are infected are asymptomatic .

83454 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #1227 of 1342 🔗

It’s true though that you’re more likely to get better treatment now than before. It does indeed totally fail to point out how many people are only mild or completely symptom-free (ie – immune) which is where it becomes deliberately misleading.

But everything that is stated renders that last sentence complete garbage. Why should anyone continue to wear masks and stay away from each other if there are, by what is said before, now reliable treatment methods?

83538 ▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Mark II, 2, #1228 of 1342 🔗

Yes, I know!
“there’s nothing to panic about Covid-19… Let’s continue to follow precautions, wear masks and practise social distancing” FFS!
The neighbour who gave me the document (printed out for her by someone else) is elderly, has asthma, is overweight, and is frightened. She relies on buses to get about. She hates wearing a mask, so has decided to buy a visor instead (is that an allowed alternative to a mask on buses?). I asked her why she is wearing a mask, other than that she has to. She said “to stop me from getting the virus” (which of course is not the government’s stated purpose, which is to stop the wearer from infecting others). I said “Do you think the virus only travels in straight lines? It will go up your visor”. I also pointed out immediately, in an attempt at reassurance, that, according to Zoe Covid, only 25,000 people in this country are currently infected. But it’s like talking to a brick wall. And she is a very highly educated graduate (of the old school, when university degrees meant something). As with so many others, she just glazes over when I try and challenge the basis of her fears. I suspect mask-wearing for many is totemic, not just virtue signalling: it’s as if the presence of the mask, no matter how useless or how ill-fitted, will somehow magically ward off the virus. The virus will look at the person and say “Ah! Mask! I’ll go and infect someone else”. A bit like the cereal advert: if you put on the jogging kit you will get fit.

83585 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Aremen, 1, #1229 of 1342 🔗

That’s exactly how it works. A totem, a lucky charm, a fetish, voodoo.

83610 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Aremen, #1230 of 1342 🔗

If there was an epidemic going on like the one we had a few months back, a visor would probably work better than a mask. It will stop droplets better and neither works if the virus is airborne. It’s also less unpleasant and less likely to be harmful.

83590 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Peter Thompson, #1231 of 1342 🔗

Classic Chi-Com/Big Parma black propaganda. Pushing all the ‘right drugs’ (statins for bonus points!). Just enough snippets of truth to draw you in, like fragments of RNA in a PCR test.

83592 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Peter Thompson, #1232 of 1342 🔗

Right but all those things are true or close enough for the 0.5% or so of infections who need hospitalisation. I thought the prone position thing was known about before Covid actually.

83596 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to guy153, #1233 of 1342 🔗

I think the point Peter is making is that by focusing on this small subset people reading it will think this is the norm for everyone.

83605 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nobody2020, #1234 of 1342 🔗

Yes the document, which seems to have been intended to reassure people, should have mentioned that if you get infected you only have a 0.5% chance or so of needing any of this.

83609 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Peter Thompson, #1235 of 1342 🔗

And others here may find this shocking, but to be brutally honest, if I were 83, the mean age of UK deaths (not quite there yet!) I would prefer to be treated for pain and enabled to die in peace of lack of oxygen, than pumped full of steroids, laid prone, and/or put on an oxygen line.

83465 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Aremen, 2, #1236 of 1342 🔗

…Aaaaaaaand we had this on our research website months ago. Mainstream doctors are not only the last to know about treatments (becoz its not evidense-based sience, innit) but also because their administrators (who really need to be hanged, but of course will evade all responsibility, hiding behind the surgeons and nurses who are actually doing the work) won’t let them use cheap and effective treatments because they are “waiting for the much more lucrative vaccine”.

83406 Paul, replying to Paul, 13, #1237 of 1342 🔗

I don’t know if I am reading too much into it but in my part of the East Midlands there has been a large rise in the number of emergency vehicles,mainly Police cars,tearing about all day with sirens blaring.It is happening all day long and often involves a small convoy of vehicles,the strange thing is there are never any reports of accidents or incidents and believe me there are some real busybodies around here who never miss a thing and always post it on social media.
This started happening a couple of weeks or so ago around the same time as the government fear project started to step up again,the same thing started happening at dawn on the first day of lockdown in March and lasted for a couple of weeks.To me it seems like a way of maintaining a high level of fear in the public,even I am starting to find the wailing of sirens around town all through the day,every twenty minutes or so,a bit disconcerting

83420 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Paul, 4, #1238 of 1342 🔗

Nothing would surprise me.

83426 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Paul, 6, #1239 of 1342 🔗

Near the start of the lockdown I saw a bunch of police around and stopped to ask what they were up to. I was reassured that they were just staking out some travellers with a view to beating them up. Business as usual. My impression was they were a bit bored as initially crime went down. I suspect they will be soon be quite busy though.

83433 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to guy153, 2, #1240 of 1342 🔗

They aren’t nicking anyone because the courts can’t process them….

83455 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Paul, 2, #1241 of 1342 🔗

The week before lockdown and 2-3 weeks into it Ambulances were driving around, not at speed, with sirens blaring despite there being little and soon no other traffic about.
I did not see any parked outside nursing or private homes.
Nor were they going to the hospitals, the designated but uncommissioned emergency morgue or the Covid recovery hotel.

I concluded they were being used to keep lockdown population in a state of fear.

83472 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1242 of 1342 🔗

We still get them regularly here and I am determined to follow one soon and see just where they go and what they do.

83493 ▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1243 of 1342 🔗

Just what I was thinking: someone with a dashcam who spots one should tail it for an hour or so. (And perhaps if feeling brave, after realising it’s just driving around making a noise, knock on the window when parked and ask what the deal is.)

83511 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Arkansas, 3, #1244 of 1342 🔗

I have ordered a dashcam. I will do this.

83459 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Paul, 6, #1245 of 1342 🔗

Same here. There are more sirens round here by a factor of…… Ten than there ever were before corona. I’m fairly sure that what the doctor whistleblowing said about empty ambulances being driven around is true. (They are ambulance sirens, not police or fire).

83462 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Paul, 4, #1246 of 1342 🔗

The same thing has been happening in Edinburgh: suddenly lots of ambulances making lots of noise, throughout the day and early evening, as of about two weeks ago.

83492 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Arkansas, 2, #1247 of 1342 🔗

Hmm, I noticed that in Edinburgh. Wow a fellow sceptic near me, apologies if any you live in Edinburgh too

83574 ▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to stefarm, 1, #1248 of 1342 🔗

I’m sure there are quite a few of us about. Lots of unofficial sceptics partying on the Meadows and at Portobello, for example.

83469 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Paul, 4, #1249 of 1342 🔗

Same thing up here in Norfolk – hearing more sirens than ever before and seeing more ambulances around on the roads

83486 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Paul, 3, #1250 of 1342 🔗

i thought the same that seemed to be more sirens during the lockdown!
It wouldn’t surprise me if they put up speakers for a public address system to indoctrinate the plebs with controlling messages!

83409 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 11, #1251 of 1342 🔗

https://omni.se/illegala-skovlingen-skjuter-i-hojden-under-pandemin/a/K3OVMG

ft.com/content/b72e3969-522c-4e83-b431-c0b498754b2d

According to this article according to satellite survey the illegal deforestation has increased 77% since the beginning of the pandemic. The local economies in poor countries have collapsed and people must survive.(Mike Barrett,Scientific Chief,WWF) Thank you, WHO,Ferguson and your models.

83489 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1252 of 1342 🔗

This is the most depressing news, but sadly very predictable. No-one seems to be able to do any kind of joined up thinking.

83523 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1253 of 1342 🔗

Exactly. Their foolish, blind interference has led to hardship here , God only knows what things are like in countries who are already poor.

More ammunition for the courts. That’s the only silver lining. Our politicians must be held to account for what was done here. The academics responsible MUST be held to account for the misery their stupidity has inflicted upon the world.

83422 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1254 of 1342 🔗

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/09/900490301/covid-19-may-never-go-away-with-or-without-a-vaccine?t=1597052274682

“Vineet Menachery, a coronavirus researcher at the University of Texas Medical Branch, told NPR’s Weekend Edition that one of the more likely scenarios is that the spread of COVID-19 will eventually be slowed as a result of herd immunity. He said that he’d be surprised “if we’re still wearing masks and 6-feet distancing in two or three years” and that in time, the virus could become no more serious than the common cold.”

83431 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1255 of 1342 🔗

he’d be surprised “if we’re still wearing masks and 6-feet distancing in two or three years” “

Let’s hope he’s right. But he’s probably basing that on his medical opinion rather than on politics.

83438 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Julian, 3, #1256 of 1342 🔗

There will another cold/flu virus to worry about by then…

83466 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Julian, 9, #1257 of 1342 🔗

Let’s hope there’s still a functioning society by then.

We’re covid-free but have a million homeless, ten million unemployed and a million excess deaths from all-causes. Let’s give ourselves a pat on the back for getting through this together.

83475 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Julian, 1, #1258 of 1342 🔗

I hope he’s wrong. It needs to stop now!

83442 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1259 of 1342 🔗

2 or 3 years? That’s all right then!

83452 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #1260 of 1342 🔗

Seems like Sweden has acquired herd immunity in 2-3 months. Never work masks. Don’t get taken in by the pro mask propaganda.

83473 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #1261 of 1342 🔗

You think my comment meant that I was taken in? 🙂 🙂

83506 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1262 of 1342 🔗

Do I detect a bit of sarcasm there???

83508 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to IanE, #1263 of 1342 🔗

Moi? 😉

83482 ▶▶ stewart, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1264 of 1342 🔗

It’s already not more serious than the common cold for most people, so no need to wait.

83484 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1265 of 1342 🔗

COVID-19 will eventually be slowed as a result of herd immunity.”

It’s happening already – the common shape of death/hospitalisation curves certainly didn’t arise from governmental wisdom.

83522 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 2, #1266 of 1342 🔗

Especially with the different levels of intervention in different countries. If any of those were effective, it would show in the graphs. The only thing that shows is countries with very sparse populations have a stop-go chart.

83627 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, #1267 of 1342 🔗

Yes, months ago. If course it’s not a single event but you could see deaths slowing down in Spain immediately after the lockdown, well before the three weeks it “should” have taken. I was telling all my friends this and the next day one of them sent me a link to the Gupta paper. That showed sites referencing it which is how I found Lockdown Skeptics 🙂

83509 ▶▶ IanE, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1268 of 1342 🔗

Wow – does he really believe the mask-wearing is about Covid?

83453 Awkward Git, 1, #1269 of 1342 🔗

Found this video.

Bill Gates goes on about how him and Fauci talk a lot, the 1st and 2nd wave of vaccines, what to open when, getting people to wear masks etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX_jYEI6Z3Q&feature=emb_logo

83470 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #1270 of 1342 🔗

If anyone still thinks Johnson is actually in charge of anything or the Trump v Biden election will have any relevance to the Global Reset, watch this:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/IPtTpAoVQLLs/

Bill Gates was recently asked what he would do if he was President. His reply was as incoherent as you’d expect.

James Corbett spells out the reality: Why would Gates want to be the President of the USA when he (and a few others) already has control of whoever sits in the White House (and most other seats of ‘government’)?

Corbett thinks we have a very small window of opportunity now and that our only hope is non-compliance, starting with, for example, refusing masks, then vaccines etc although he says you have to draw your own lines in the sand.

He says everyone needs a plan for how they are going to cope with what is in store for us (AI, mass-surveillance, no civil liberties or society, everything online, UBI) and the implications for trying to carve out any existence outside the ‘matrix’.

He’s persuasive and I think not burying our heads is actually liberating. It clears the mind and strengthens our sense of purpose!

83510 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1271 of 1342 🔗

More on the same topic in this article here:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/davos-great-reset/5715515

83487 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 11, #1272 of 1342 🔗

OK, so OH and I are trying to get round to all the local supermarkets to test the waters re: mask wearing. Oh we do lead exciting lives!

We are giving Sainsbury’s today a 9 out of 10.

Big notice outside about wearing face coverings but no mention of exemptions. Pointed this out to the lady greeter who told us that they made regular tannoy announcements to this effect. Yes they did and it was done in a clear loud voice, unlike the muffled, garbled one in Asda the other day. Well done!

OH noticed a sign by customer services advertising free sunflower lanyards, which is excellent, but point deducted for the fact that few shoppers will need to use customer services and therefore will not see it, so there needs to be a lot more of these notices scattered around the store.

Have noticed that hand sanitising requests are fast disappearing. Can’t remember the last time I was requested to sanitise as I entered a shop. The sanitisers are still there but are no longer policed.

Next stop a bakery with several local branches. Unmasked warrior behind the counter said that she liked my badge. Once again, fellow sceptics, I took the opportunity of pointing her in the direction of the government’s own website. It earned me a beaming smile and a “You have a really nice day “ response.

Might try Tesco tomorrow.

83502 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Margaret, 5, #1273 of 1342 🔗

Your lives sound about as exiting as ours, Margaret! 🙂 Thanks for the update and the pioneering work. (Maybe you saw my post about the effect of my badge after your experiences persuaded us to start wearing them after all. La lutte continue! )

83507 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Margaret, 7, #1274 of 1342 🔗

Good news on the sanitiser front (that’s the only reason I would wear a mask, so I didn’t have to inhale the noxious fumes).

Been told by a customer (who I put onto wearing the exempt lanyard) that he is asked regularly where they can be bought. It’s starting slowly, but I think the resistance is growing. Just wish it had started several months ago.

83535 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to kh1485, 4, #1275 of 1342 🔗

Hi kh. That’s good news about your customer. Perhaps word of mouth will increase exponentially just like the virus didn’t. Keep up the excellent work!

83579 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Margaret, 1, #1276 of 1342 🔗

Thanks Margaret. Trying my best!

It’s funny, he tells me that people sidle up to him and are almost conspiratorial when they ask where he got it from, but it’s good news that they do!

83557 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 1, #1277 of 1342 🔗

I’m missing a trick here. Why’s it good news if he’s asked regularly where they can be bought? Surely that means more people are interested in buying the muck?

83569 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella, 2, #1278 of 1342 🔗

I think he means the lanyard, pesky ‘)’.

83571 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1279 of 1342 🔗

Yes I did!

83539 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Margaret, 6, #1280 of 1342 🔗

Thanks for the update Margaret!

It’s your story and others’ on here which give me the strength to walk in to shops unmasked – I have severe anxiety about masks, and also about confrontation … sorry, I am just slightly flawed in that respect.

And as I approach a store entrance and the anxiety starts to swell, I think back to the daily updates on here and fragments of stories go through my head, and all of a sudden, I’m in with a basket and down an aisle.

I hope at some point, the need for daily inspirations such as this disappear (as has Covid), but for now, I thank you and everyone else for posting!

Cheers and have a fab. day.

83555 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to HaylingDave, 5, #1281 of 1342 🔗

HD never ever think that you are even the slightest bit flawed. My fear of masks comes from going to the dentist’s at an early age-my aunt worked there- I still have flash backs of the gas mask being put over my nose and mouth and can still smell the awful rubber smell mixed in with the gas. I think I was about five at the time.
I could wear a mask if I chose to, but I don’t on both counts.
Onwards and upwards my friend.

83582 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Margaret, 1, #1282 of 1342 🔗

Oh god, I remember those – school dentist …. awful.

83563 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to HaylingDave, 2, #1283 of 1342 🔗

Nobody can be blamed for being apprehensive about confrontation. The zombie herd is a ghastly and unnerving sight. But they are also tremendous cowards. Sod them, tear up that horrible nappy, you’ll be fine!
Whatever you do, you are one of us.

83570 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to HaylingDave, 1, #1284 of 1342 🔗

You only have to get all braved up the first time, then it’s a doddle.

83586 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Margaret, 1, #1285 of 1342 🔗

Our Sainsbury’s has been great all through lockdown and beyond. I wrote to the manager to thank the staff for their calm and friendly manner during lockdown and asked about the stores approach to masks. I promptly got an excellent letter Saying that it was NOT the role of staff to police masking and that they were well aware that some customers could not wear masks, the reasons being none of their business.
Like Margaret’s store they also regularly make a clear announcement to that effect.

83491 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1286 of 1342 🔗

“The Good (But Not Great) News About T-Cells and Herd Immunity”
Important article from MSM but now giving a very nuanced story and well worth reading. Great balanced journalism.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/08/reasons-for-covid-19-optimism-on-t-cells-and-herd-immunity.html?__twitter_impression=true

83498 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1287 of 1342 🔗

A bit of a mixed bag of an article, typified by it’s comments about Karl Friston – implying that his important interview for ‘Unherd’ emerged from the ‘dark web’.

Of course, Friston is actually a massive brain with a proven track record in mathematical modelling – unlike the cave-dwelling troglodytes represented by Ferguson et al.

His comments on the underlying variables related to the virus are fascinating, and have a lot of face validity – unlike the simplistic and *wrong* predictions made by the bog-standard epidemiologists that the article seems to credit with wisdom.

83494 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1288 of 1342 🔗

The funny thing about herd immunity is that the effects are compound. Every person that becomes immune reduces the pool of hosts until a critical mass is reached. Even if immunity is short term it is enough to enable the Herd Immunity Threshold to be reached within a relatively short period of time.

NPIs are generally binary in effect. For example, once you stop lockdown or wearing a mask the effect (if any) stops.

As with compound investments the sooner you start on Herd Immunity the greater the gains in the long term.

83501 swedenborg, 2, #1290 of 1342 🔗

“The Coronavirus Is Never Going AwayNo matter what happens now, the virus will continue to circulate around the world.”

Another article in MSM (Atlantic) saying things she might have picked up at LockDown sceptics!

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/coronavirus-will-never-go-away/614860/

Tide changing? These type of articles in MSM not found earlier

83505 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1291 of 1342 🔗

Well, that was upsetting. I just had a customer bring his PC round to me to sort out and he was wearing a bastard face nappy. I was really hoping he wouldn’t but he feckin did. I am still shaking. Still I kindly gave him both barrels and he kindly removed it.

FFS.

I almost told him to take his PC away and find another PC fixer. Lucky for him he was a nice thoughtful caring fellow.

83514 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1292 of 1342 🔗

Good moniker – I was inspired to look up two, six and discovered my ignorance of nautical parlance. Most appropriate for any group effort here!

83517 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to IanE, 1, #1293 of 1342 🔗

Nautical parlance? 🙂 How you mean?

83520 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1294 of 1342 🔗

“Two, six, heave …” used to coordinate team efforts – perhaps I misunderstood your name then?

83551 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to IanE, 3, #1295 of 1342 🔗

LOL yer I like it but no it’s not why I have this name. I have had it for AGES, I started using it way back when I was into a game called “Comanche 3” a helicopter game. The main protagonist’s character had a call sign of Griffon Two-Six. I liked it and started using it. It was neutral and non descriptive of anything but perhaps the connotations of “Too Sick” made me like it even more.

I am the original and best Two-Six. Many have followed, lots of Rappers actually…:-)

83567 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, #1296 of 1342 🔗

Must admit I’d read it as “Two Six… Heave” as well. It’s a gunnery thing from the days of cannon broadsides, because Number Two and Number Six in the gun crew were responsible for heaving the gun so the muzzle was pointing out from the gun port.

The gun moved backwards naturally when it was fired…

83591 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, #1297 of 1342 🔗

Ahhhh nice….

83593 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Two-Six, #1298 of 1342 🔗

I thought it was something to do with half a crown (two shillings and sixpence) – showing my age.

83518 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Two-Six, 9, #1299 of 1342 🔗

Good for you. I’m doing the same here.

Just had a customer (came in from outside and got gloved-up like Alvin bloody Stardust in order that she didn’t catch anything from my skuzzy shop) ask me how I was. You know what, when I said my usual “apart from living in a dystopian nightmare, I’m fine thanks” she just said “oh dear” And off she tootled in her neoprene face-mask, completely oblivious to what my point was. Again, what gets me is the lack of anger ….

83533 ▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1300 of 1342 🔗

Well done.
Got any more badges?

83547 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 1, #1301 of 1342 🔗
83558 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1302 of 1342 🔗

Good-oh, order’s in.

83566 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 1, #1303 of 1342 🔗

YAY!

83587 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1304 of 1342 🔗

NestaFattyBoulder??? lol
On the way!

83513 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1305 of 1342 🔗

A depressing portrayal of exactly where we are heading:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/08/10/invasion-of-the-new-normals/

83521 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1306 of 1342 🔗

Quite – I would love to believe (as I would have decades ago) that it could not happen here.

83526 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1307 of 1342 🔗

Good Article, although not what I see around me, with life going in completely as per ‘old normal’. The thing about those sponges who soak up each new fad, is that they get bored quickly and look for the next new fad.

83550 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1308 of 1342 🔗

Hopefully the next new fad will be ripping someone elses mask off.

83519 DressageRider, replying to DressageRider, #1309 of 1342 🔗

Is this just me, but I think the global number of cases may have peaked. If you look at the John Hopkins university site:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html

Daily cases bottom right.

What do you all think?

83542 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DressageRider, #1310 of 1342 🔗

I get a login page…

83548 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to DressageRider, #1311 of 1342 🔗

well usually when cases peak and start to drop down we go into lockdown…

83524 tallandbald, 7, #1312 of 1342 🔗

https://twitter.com/ninnyd101/status/1292196481940828161

“No Mask” march going on ….. Hurrah!!

83527 Sue, 2, #1313 of 1342 🔗

hi – for anyone interested …the academy of ideas is holding a series of talks via zoom with a number of presenters. I attended the last one which was related to the virus and future etc and was interesting debate with Q&A etc. It has Claire Fox who I think is involved and sounds to talk a lot of sense (in my opinion)

There is an event tomorrow evening on ‘cancel culture’ link below, it’s free (donations appreciated though) and can get tickets on eventbrite.

http://academyofideas.org.uk/events/can_we_cancel_cancel_culture#.XzEobihKiUl

83528 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #1314 of 1342 🔗

BREAKING NEWS JUST ON RADIO!
Some illegal immigrants have tried to come into the country in small boats, even though we have the deadly virus! It started just this week, but the PM and Home Sec are looking at how to protect us! Thank goodness they are nipping this in the bud.

83541 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sam Vimes, #1315 of 1342 🔗

I think they are monitoring things:

https://www.radarbox.com/data/flights/RRR4998

83529 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 12, #1317 of 1342 🔗

Are we going to see the minutes from the SAGE meeting that brougbt in mandatory masks? The scientists explaining why they had changed their minds, giving details of the groundbreaking research that meant the advice of 100 years had to reversed.

83545 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Andrew, 5, #1318 of 1342 🔗

I’m still waiting for my MP to send me an update from the Department of Transport regarding their risk assessment on wearing masks for long journeys. The first one they sent was all about their perceived efficacy of masks-not what I asked for at all. I want to know about all the gory bacterial infections, pustulating skin rashes and bursting mouth ulcers that come with wearing a muzzle.

84248 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, #1319 of 1342 🔗

I asked a Traffic Cop about that, he just said blankly
” we don’t wear them “.

83530 TJN, replying to TJN, 28, #1320 of 1342 🔗

Just out and thought I’d call in at two supermarkets to get the lay of the land down here in deepest Devon. I was the only unmuzzled prole in both shops, which is sad.

As I was leaving the second one I saw something which I found distressing, and have immediately emailed my MP, Geoffrey Cox, about it.

Dear Mr Cox,
I’ve just returned from a brief visit to a Tesco in your constituency – unmuzzled of course.

At the entrance there was an old lady, frail and bent over, explaining to one of the assistants that she couldn’t hear people talking when she was wearing a mask, as it covered her ears. Her muzzle didn’t cover her ears; but I suspect she actually means she can’t hear other people talking through their own muzzles, although she doesn’t fully understand this.

Try to imagine, if you can, walking in her shoes just for a few moments. She probably lives alone, and perhaps about the only time she sees smiling faces, hears people talking, or exchanges greetings and a few brief words, is when she goes shopping. And now that’s been taken from her.

And she probably has no idea that by wearing a muzzle, and rebreathing what should be exhaled air, she’s compromising her own respiratory health. This is just one minor anecdote in, as Johnson’s hero put it in another context, this ‘abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science’ in which we now live.

‘Perverted science’: that about sums it up. A perversion and abuse of science.

As far as I know, you have said and done about this outrage absolutely NOTHING. You are thus complicit in it. Were I you, I couldn’t live with myself.

Yours till next time,
A former Conservative voter.

83532 ▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, 9, #1321 of 1342 🔗

Good. Well said.

83534 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, 2, #1322 of 1342 🔗

Yes, indeed. But guess what….?

83543 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TJN, 3, #1323 of 1342 🔗

I said pretty much the same thing to my MP and all I got was a load of old bollocks back.

83544 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to TJN, 1, #1324 of 1342 🔗

Great letter.

83584 ▶▶ Steve, replying to TJN, -3, #1325 of 1342 🔗

Why do you think that old ladies are morons?

84231 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Steve, 1, #1326 of 1342 🔗

I don’t, and that’s not what I said.

83531 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 6, #1327 of 1342 🔗

Regarding the impact on university students my student daughter has just sent letters to Starmer, the Universities minister and shadow minister. She would like to forward to TY as testimony of how the new draconian restrictions being proposed by universities are hugely impactful and damaging for young university students. Could anyone tell me what email address she should use? Thanks

83556 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Julian, #1329 of 1342 🔗

Thanks v much Julian – will let her know

83549 annie, replying to annie, 13, #1330 of 1342 🔗

A real dialogue, overheard. Beckett could not do better.

Boss: You’ve got to keep wiping this stuff over the machinery.
Mechanic: OK.
Boss: It’ll wreck it, mind.
Silence
Mechanic: Shall I just pretend to wipe it, then?
Boss: OK.

83561 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to annie, #1331 of 1342 🔗

Brilliant, ‘I Contain Multitudes’

84240 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #1332 of 1342 🔗

Russian Communism, You pretend to pay us, we pretend to work.

83553 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1333 of 1342 🔗

https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/tegnell-sagar-munskydd-i-tysk-intervju-farligt/ Tegnell interview Bild Germany “ Strange considering the amount of masks used around the world that there are no studies showing how they have any effects. Indeed, the very mask wearing countries like Spain and Belgium have now increased infections. Carrying a mask gives you a false sense of security so you are relaxing the social restrictions and other hygienic routines.It is very dangerous to believe that masks will solve this problem”

83560 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1335 of 1342 🔗

We’re also seeing increased infections in Japan. Quite a large increase. There has thankfully not been a corresponding increase in deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

83581 ▶▶ Steve, replying to swedenborg, #1336 of 1342 🔗

So… are they imagining people wearing masks and rolling around in a bath of used needles or something?

I’m pretty sure that people who wear masks won’t be the ones refusing to take other precautions. I’m pretty sure it will be those refusing to wear masks who’ll refuse to take other precautions.

83577 mjr, 1, #1337 of 1342 🔗

MONDAY’S EDITION IS NOW AVAILABLE
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/08/10/latest-news-99/#comments
Dont be late!

83597 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1338 of 1342 🔗

Just look at this shit. Warning it will give you brain cancer:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53688259

Absolute charlies

83654 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1339 of 1342 🔗

I wonder why they don’t allow comments…

DavidC

83744 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to DavidC, 3, #1340 of 1342 🔗

FFS. Is this the lead up to masks in outdoor places too!!! I hope there will be rioting!!

84233 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, #1341 of 1342 🔗

My mum worked as a nurse with a consultant dermatologist in the 60’s. He thought it a nice idea to present his staff with copies of his authored text books for Xmas.

I spent happy childhood hours exploring my parents bookshelves ever wary of coming across those books with b/w photos of the most hideous & disgusting skin conditions.

84502 Anji, #1342 of 1342 🔗

Yes…I think I’m skeptical about all this pandemic situation. Everytime I listen to the news… it’s always about Covid-19! It is making me sick and tired, minus the virus of course! One can’t say who is saying the truth…is it a case of rock and scissors? Well, I really hope all this disappears as fast as it appeared! Godspeed to all!!

Users

203 users made 1,286 comments today.

LikesUserPostsReplies
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115Sam Vimes22, 4, 0, 13, 1, 1, 2, 3, 6, 0, 2, 1, 1, 0, 2, 7, 1, 3, 4, 6, 4, 5, 10, 3, 5, 7, 2
107Julian6, 6, 26, 7, 13, 4, 0, 9, 1, 20, 3, 2, 3, 7, 0, 0
102Nobody202088, 12, 1, 6, 8, 1, 8, 1, 1, 4, 4, 1, 7, 3, 2, 0, 7, 3, 1, 1, 11, 0, 4
99OKUK1, 4, 21, 21, 4, 37, 2, 3, 0, 0, 2, 1, 2, 0, 1
98swedenborg4, 210, 0, 3, 6, 9, 9, 9, 3, 17, 11, 5, 3, 7, 0
97stefarm4, 11, 297, 5, 1, 15, 10, 2, 6, 3, 0, 2, 2
93IMoz1, 1, 8, 1, 2, 3, 1, 19, 3, 6, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 6, 1, 2, 4, 0, 10, 2, 1, 5, 0, 4, 1, -1, -1, 7, 1
86Basics4, 4, 2, 5, 3, 0, 0, 3, 3, 6, 0, 4, 7, 0, 2, 0, 0, 6, 3, 20, 2, 10, 2
84stewart40, 19, 2, 5, 13, 0, 5
83richard riewer3, 0, 1, 4, 8, 63, 0, 0, 0, 0, 8, 2, 7, 0, 0, 0, 6, 10, 0, 3, 2, 3, 1, 6, 6, 4
75Moomin5, 10, 1, 2, 17, 0, 10, 8, 0, 11, 2, 0, 0, 5, 4
67James Leary #KBF1155, 0, 1
67nat2, 70, 21, 29, 3, 1, 1, 2, 1
64mhcp2, 25, 35, 1, 1
62IanE0, 3, 2, 7, 7, 12, 3, 11, 3, 8, 0, 3, 1, 1, 1
60Gillian Swanson23, 13, 13, 1, 2, 2, 1, 5, 0
58davews28, 4, 25, 1
58Awkward Git2, 2, 19, 15, 18, 1, 0, 7, 3
55Lockdown Truth2, 3, 3, 7, 7, 5, 0, 6, 16, 6
54A. Contrarian5, 5, 7, 4, 3, 5, 2, 6, 14, 3
52Mark II8, 21, 7, 2, 4, 4, 1, 5
51Victoria293, 4, 9, 4, 2, 0, 0
50Margaret0, 15, 1, 0, 9, 0, 0, 11, 4, 5, 5
49Paul17, 9, 10, 13
47Rick47
47Gossamer1, 0, 10, 6, 12, 11, 0, 7, 0, 0, 0
45Jonathan Palmer0, 4, 0, 3, 1, 1, 4, 15, 2, 7, 2, 6
44James0073, 16, 6, 9, 10
44Eddie0, 5, 4, 15, 2, 18
44Farinances3, 0, 0, 2, 5, 0, 5, 1, 0, 2, 10, 2, 1, 2, 0, 1, 1, 0, 2, 1, 6
41Aremen9, 7, 8, 15, 0, 2
40Rowan1, 0, 6, 5, 5, 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 2, 3, 0, 6, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
39Steve185, 2, 7, 0, 7
39Sarigan8, 2, 4, 7, 4, 2, 5, 3, 4, 0
36Steve Martindale26, 6, 4
35John Ballard35
35Tyneside Tigress13, 1, 0, 7, 8, 6
35Sue22, 17, 0, 9, 2, 3
33guy15313, 6, 0, 2, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0
31felix4, 1, 1, 0, 0, 2, 1, 2, 1, 7, 9, 3
29TJN28, 1
28Lms233, 2, 3, 2, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 2, 5, 1, 3, 2
27DavidC2, 0, 1, 5, 2, 0, 5, 10, 2
26RDawg22, 4
26bluemoon3, 2, 7, 2, 0, 2, 0, 10
25James Bertram25
25DocRC14, 5, 6
25Che Strazio1, 0, 0, 3, 14, 7
25MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG2, 1, 6, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 7, 5, 0
25DressageRider1, 1, 2, 5, 1, 6, 1, 0, 2, 0, 2, 1, 2, 1, 0
24Margaret24
24Winston Smith0, 1, 0, 16, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 1
23Drawde9272, 6, 7, 8
23Tom Blackburn14, 3, 4, 2
23Mr Dee6, 0, 4, 4, 3, 5, 1
23Cruella3, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1, 2, 4, 0, 2, 1, 1, 2
22Harry hopkins9, 13
22Hammer Onats8, 5, 9
22arfurmo1, 2, 3, 16
22Biker2, 0, 1, 2, 1, 2, -2, 3, 4, 6, 3
21Steve Hayes21
21Nessimmersion0, 21
21WhyNow1, 20
21kf995, 6, 3, 3, 4
20Ben Shirley19, 1, 0
20NickR0, 15, 1, 1, 1, 2
19thedarkhorse6, 13
19Lisa from Toronto5, 0, 4, 4, 6
19Castendo2, 1, 11, 1, 3, 1
19Dave #KBF10, 0, 2, 1, 4, 1, 0, 1
18Morse18
18Stuart18
18Wesley18
18Suitejb16, 1, 1
17Peter Thompson6, 11
17Polemon22, 6, 9
17Rabbit3, 2, 12
17Bruno2, 4, 2, 1, 1, 7, 0, 0
16John Galt13, 3
16Howie5910, 4, 2
16p020990033, 5, 8
16JulieR2, 2, 0, 0, 3, 9
15Pennyb15
15Montag Smith11, 2, 2
14iainclark14
14Proudtobeapeasant6, 2, 5, 1
13JYC12, 1
13tallandbald76
13BobT3, 3, 7
13ConstantBees1, 8, 4
12Andrew12
12Achilles10, 2
12Klein8, 1, 3
12Bugle6, 2, 0, 3, 1
11HaylingDave1, 4, 6
11Alison90, 11, 0, 0
11DRW4, 1, 2, 0, 4, 0
10PAUL TURNBULL10
10smileymiley10
10Cicatriz1, 9
10Bella1, 8, 1
9PowerCorrupts9
9AngloWelshDragon8, 1
9Chicot1, 8
9Dave Tee7, 2
9Kate8, 0, 1, 0
8Felice8
8Hugh8
8Mark B8
8Richard4, 4
7LGDTLK7
7Tim Bidie7
7Adam1, 6
7Lili3, 4
7Arkansas2, 4, 1
6Gracie Knoll6
6HawkAnalyst6
6Jay Berger6
6William6
6Barney McGrew0, 6
6Major Panic6, 0
6Telpin6, 0
6mjr1-5, 2, 8
6Edward5, 1, 0, 0, 0
6Fed up2, 0, 2, 1, 1
6shorthand0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 3
5alw5
5ChrisW5
5Commander Jameson5
5Graham5
5hat man5
5Hoppy Uniatz5
5James5
5Jane5
5microdave5
5Miss Owl5
5Sally5
5Gerry Mandarin2, 3
5Jonathan Smith4, 1
5justanothersceptic1, 4
4Cassandra4
4Dan Clarke4
4Liam4
4Ned of the Hills4
4Ozzie4
4Riffman4
4Tangelo4
4BTLnewbie2, 2
4Cambridge N3, 1
4DoesDimSyniad0, 0, 4
4Ruth Sharpe3, 0, 1
3AMZ3
3dpj3
3JohnB3
3Mik dale3
3tonyspurs3
3watashi0, 3
2DomW2
2NonCompliant2
2Xenophanes2
2adele2, 0
2anon0, 2
2Lockdown Truth2, 0
2RichardJames0, 2
2Will2, 0
1Gillian1
1GrowYourOwn1
1Jay1
1Laura Suckling1
1matt1
1Saved To Death1
1Sophie1231
1John Stone1, 0
1Nigel Sherratt1, 0, 0, 0, 0
0Anji0
0BJJ0
0Chris John0
0Country Mumkin0
0GLT0
0Lockdown_Lunacy0
0Luckyluke19760
0PaulParanoia0
0rational actor0
0Shelby0
0steve0
0Strange Days0
0TheBluePill0
0Emma Townsend0, 0
0Hoppity0, 0
0JohnB0, 0
0SweetBabyCheeses0, 0
0Youth_Unheard0, 0
-3Steve-3, 0

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