Last updated2020-08-19T16:00:59



84751 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 6, #1 of 1308 🔗

Am I first today?

84851 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Achilles, 8, #2 of 1308 🔗

First across the line, first to be maligned. An old saying I just invented.

84753 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 7, #3 of 1308 🔗

According to the ONS, deaths for week 31 (25–31 July) of 2020:-

Total: 8946 (up from 8891 prev. week, down from 5 year average of 9036)

‘flu/pneumonia: 928 (down from 958 prev. week)
COVID-19: 193 (down from 217 prev. week)

‘flu/pneumonia:COVID-19 ratio is about 4.81:1 (4.14:1 prev. week), COVID-19 deaths as a proportion of all-cause deaths: 2.16%, ‘flu/pneumonia: 10.37%


84767 ▶▶ Lorenzo Basso, replying to IMoz, 2, #4 of 1308 🔗

193 deaths? That’s a lot – I thought the NHS England data was showing single digits per day as of late. Wonder where all the extras are coming from…

84770 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 2, #5 of 1308 🔗

ONS count all death certificates in E&W mentioniong COVID-19 as diagnosed by a lab (code U07.1) or clinically/epidemiologically (based on symptoms or people around the patient) (code U07.2). NHS count hospital mortality.

84801 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to IMoz, 4, #6 of 1308 🔗

or any certifictate in the pile mentioning covid

is there anything left that isn’t a scam?

85268 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to anon, 1, #7 of 1308 🔗

Not a lot…

85313 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to anon, 1, #8 of 1308 🔗

It’s basically scam, scam, scam. scam (to the tune of the Monty Python spam song).

85480 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to anon, 1, #9 of 1308 🔗

Not that much, but it’s will be hard to fiddle the total death count over the longer term.

84826 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 1, #10 of 1308 🔗

That is only for hospitals

85477 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 4, #11 of 1308 🔗

The total number deaths for the week was 1% below the five year average and that is the only statistic that actually matters. Deaths described as being Covid related are likely largely fictitious and in any event even they are down on the previous week.

84864 ▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, 1, #12 of 1308 🔗

This is interesting because there’s also a table in the ONS data that says that of people with Covid symptoms (cough, fever, etc) about 10% have Covid.

So if there are 1/5 the Covid deaths out of about 1/10 the cases, that would make Covid 2x as deadly as flu.

But those Covid deaths are inflated (for the reasons explained by Carl Heneghan– you currently aren’t allowed to recover from Covid so anyone who ever had it is a “Covid death”).

This also assumes that flu has the same number of asymptomatic infections as Covid. If Covid has twice as many then the IFRs become the same. But we don’t know the asymptomatic infection rate for flu. My guess is it’s similar.

84935 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to guy153, 1, #13 of 1308 🔗

Somewhere recently I read 15% asymptomatic for flu, so a lot lower.

85022 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #14 of 1308 🔗

Back in Feb I found a paper from 2014 from a PCR test based study done in Edinburgh that showed it was about 80pct for flu as well. I haven’t saved the link unfortunately. But basically they surveyed people all winter to see if they had flu or flu like symptoms and did PCR tests on them and way more people had flu as shown by the test than actually reported feeling unwell at any point.

85101 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sophie123, 3, #15 of 1308 🔗

Wow that’s interesting, thanks! Any research on whether or not those people were infectious by any chance?

85246 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sophie123, 1, #16 of 1308 🔗

Very interesting thanks! I just replied above before I read this…

85251 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sophie123, 3, #17 of 1308 🔗
85287 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, 9, #18 of 1308 🔗


Here’s the original paper. Guess what they found?

75% asymptomatic. 20% antibodies after a flu season (and they acknowledge openly this may be an underestimate because the threshold of the test is high and not everyone develops antibodies).

And what about transmission? As you might expect, following the Pareto principle, they estimated about 80% of the transmission is done by the 20% with the most symptoms.

A little off-message for 2020. Too bad it’s the truth.

Someone remind me why we’re expecting to find 80% seropositivity for SARS2 and jumping on every asymptomatic infection we can find as if it was the end of the world?

85291 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to guy153, 5, #19 of 1308 🔗

That NHS paper contains the following paragraphs:

This information is important, as it indicates that current surveillance systems that rely on people visiting their doctor underestimate the extent of infection and illness in the community. This, somewhat counterintuitively, can lead to overestimates of the severity of the disease (only people with the most severe symptoms are identified as being infected).

There is also the worry that people unaware they are infected may pass it on to people more vulnerable to infection, such as those with weakened immune systems.

Sounds familiar…

85506 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #20 of 1308 🔗

It sounds all too familiar. This is a way to push or even try to mandate flu vaccines. It’s my long held view, that those whose end may just have been speeded along by Covid-19 will almost certainly have been vaccinated against flu. Also many of those over 65, and perhaps some other vulnerables, were “lucky” enough to be given a so called stronger version of the flu vaccine last time around. It seems as if the oldies were being primed up to be the main victims of the coming Covid Plandemic.

86135 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Rowan, #21 of 1308 🔗

Yes yes yes! It’s what I have been saying for months. The over 60s are their target, not just here but worldwide too they’ve figured we are more of a drain on society so need to be bumped off sooner. Factor in the not so efficient NHS who is barely functioning anyway and you can see there is an all out attack on the elderly and sick. The NHS is the biggest employer and costs around 150 billion and it still wants more!

85491 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to guy153, 4, #22 of 1308 🔗

They are expecting and hoping to find low seropositivity in order to further promote or mandate Bill Gates’s extremely dodgy, but free of all liability vaccines. A great scam it certainly is.

85707 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, 2, #23 of 1308 🔗

Just don’t let the busybodies read “The Presence of The Prevalent Strain Between Epidemics” section in Ch. 15 of the Hope-Simpson book or they’ll never let anyone who ever tested positive for COVID-19 out:-

… The new concept proposes that persistent infection in carriers is produced by some such mechanism as a balance between defective interfering particles and standard virions. The balance may at times tilt in favour of the standard virions, as happens in persistent infectoin of cell cultures in the laboratory, allowing temporary escapes of infectious virus…

Preceeding that in “Interepidemic Absence of The Prevalent Influenza Virus,” Ch. 7:-

… The current concept states that influenza virus persists between epidemics by continuous person-to-person spread, albeit at a low level involving numerous asymptomatic infections…

Maybe PHE was onto something but they just didn’t know it—it is a chronic incurable disease! 😯 :-)) Welcome to the permanent lockdown!

85244 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #24 of 1308 🔗

Interesting. The thing is how would anyone know? We’ve never gone around doing mass PCR testing of people with no symptoms before. I guess you don’t need that big of a sample.

I think the “null hypothesis” is that SARS2 probably isn’t any different from any other coronavirus. There may be a bit less cross-immunity between flu viruses.

85284 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to guy153, 5, #25 of 1308 🔗

Agree with your null hypothesis! But by studying the virus’ every move they have turned it into something inexplicable and special. I’m sure exactly the same thing would happen if flu was given this much attention.

85515 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to guy153, #26 of 1308 🔗

They don’t need any samples at all, they might just lie.

85546 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rowan, 1, #27 of 1308 🔗

I suspect the “Second wave” will involve a lot of mendacity.

86145 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cheezilla, #28 of 1308 🔗

That’s a dead certainty!

84944 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to guy153, 9, #29 of 1308 🔗

If you’re ‘asymptomatically infected’ aren’t you, er, well?

84982 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 18, #30 of 1308 🔗

Up until March, that’s what I thought too.

Imagine consulting your GP:

You: “I’ve got Ebola, doctor”

GP: “Oh dear, why do you think that? What are your symptoms?”

You: “Oh I don’t have any symptoms doctor. I’ve got it asymptomatically.”

GP: “Bugger off.”

84988 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #31 of 1308 🔗

honestly I think humour might be a way out of this

hilarious btw!

85516 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to anon, 1, #32 of 1308 🔗

Humour is very welcome, but it will not get us out of the hole, that they are digging ever deeper.

84983 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #33 of 1308 🔗

Yes there is no such a thing as an asymptomatic covid-19 infection. It is just a false positive from the PCR test – viral debris in the cell from a previous viral infection.

However THEY use ‘asymptomatic infected’ to scare people

85265 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, 3, #34 of 1308 🔗

It doesn’t have that many false positives. If it did how is it that the ONS found 7x as many asymptomatic infections in April as now, and also 7x as many symptomatic ones, using the same test? I agree with you about the second part however: that the obsession with asymptomatic positives is meant to scare people. It also creates the need for the whole pointless testing infrastructure. But, since it’s there, we might as well try and learn whatever useful information from it that we can.

85519 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to guy153, 4, #35 of 1308 🔗

The obsession with asymptomatics is also to distract attention away from the lack of hospitalisations and deaths.

85710 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, #36 of 1308 🔗

I think the problem is what is defined as “asymptomatic”—is it not currently a qRT-PCR positive, a test that says it found some genes on a swab to react with—is there a decent T-cell test yet?

85814 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #37 of 1308 🔗

There are tests, but not that you can do cheaply and easily on 10s of 1000s of people.

But they have the same problem as the antibody tests. Cross-immunity from another coronavirus can be so effective that you might not end up with any SARS2-specific antibodies (or T-cells) at all. So you can’t easily tell for sure if someone was ever infected with SARS2 or not.

If you widen the test to include those other antibodies (or T-cells) it’s more of a test for immunity to SARS2, but doesn’t tell you if you have actually been exposed to SARS2 itself.

85940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, 1, #38 of 1308 🔗

And that’s the problem:- you’re supposed to use lab tests on people who present with signs/symptoms, not whimsically test population—I don’t recall any time when this was ever done—when did medicine become less evidence-based than clinical psychology?

86147 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to IMoz, #39 of 1308 🔗

Because there’s never been a Plandemic before!

85271 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Victoria, 1, #40 of 1308 🔗

Or some could theoretically be in the pre-symptomatic phase? Are people who are pre-symptomatic infectious?
If they’re pre-symptomatic, that means that they’ll develop symptoms within a short number of days.

85292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lms23, 1, #41 of 1308 🔗

Yes that can certainly be the case and you might be infectious for a day or two before you have symptoms. But I see no reason to disbelieve in asymptomatic infections as these seem to be also normal for flu.

85522 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, #42 of 1308 🔗

If they do develop symptoms then they don’t lead to hospitalisations or deaths. Nice try though.

85518 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Victoria, 1, #43 of 1308 🔗

And it might just be viral debris from some other infection, but that’s just a bonus for them.

85258 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #44 of 1308 🔗

Yes 🙂 But it affects two important issues of our time: herd immunity thresholds and IFR. When we say we reckon flu has an IFR of about 0.1%, are we including asymptomatic infections? We generally are when estimating Covid IFRs.

The truth is, as has been pointed out many times, its very hard to estimate IFR because you never know how many people were infected. People are still arguing about what the 2009 Swine Flu IFR was and there is at least an order of magnitude variation in the estimates. The only reliable measure of anything (or as close as you get) is excess deaths.

85314 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to guy153, 4, #45 of 1308 🔗

Quite so. If people are not showing up ill at hospital or indeed dying of (or even with) Covid19 there really is ‘nothing to see here’. Covid19 wards are reportedly closing all over the country even in the areas with ‘cases’ from what I understand.

85529 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #46 of 1308 🔗

You have summed it up rather concisely, but what you say will be anathema to Bill Gates, Big Pharma, Big Government and of course the BBC.

85461 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 6, #47 of 1308 🔗

Have you just told me what I think you have just told me? In a non lockdown situation, looking at flu in Edinburgh 2005 to 2011, the infection rate was 20%, of whom only 20% showed any symptoms, i.e. 4% of the population. And you would expect a case fatality rate of around 2% of those, or 0.08%. So, without lockdown, you might expect for CV19, 60M people to suffer – 48000 deaths? In other words, pretty darn close to what we have got, only WITH all the downsides of lockdown, on top?? I think I’m going to come over all Victor Meldrew in a minute…

85523 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bruno, #48 of 1308 🔗

Better late than never.

85565 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 6, #49 of 1308 🔗

Yes. That’s why this is the “herd immunity plus” strategy. First you wait for infections to peak, get that out of the way nice and early. Then you have a lockdown anyway now that it won’t make any difference. This avoids any risk of a second wave. Then you can ad lib from there, maybe mandate masks in shops, perhaps destroy the arts, it’s all good.

It’s a lot like Derren Brown or somebody. The actual trick has usually happened when you weren’t looking, before most of the patter has really even got started.

85673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 2, #50 of 1308 🔗

Like the analogy, thanks! Feeling even more bitter about cost of ‘the whole pointless testing infrastructure’ though, as well as all the rest …

85819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 2, #51 of 1308 🔗

The lockdown was by far the most harmful of all the things they did. The masks and T&T are just theatre, relatively far less expensive (even if T&T really does cost £10bn) though no less pointless.

For £10bn we could have built a base on Mars. Sometimes I despair of the human race.

85711 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, 1, #52 of 1308 🔗

Yes, ‘flu IFR includes extrapolated non- and sub-clinical infections, otherwise if you merely count clinical infections it’s called CFR 😉

This actually raises an interesting question: if they are counting “asymptomatics” as “cases,” they should be adjusting CFR accordingly, not just the IFR 😉

84754 HawkAnalyst, 3, #53 of 1308 🔗

Poundstretcher DC in Leicestershire suffered coronavirus outbreak


The Grocer can also reveal Poundstretcher owner Aziz Tayub was this week questioned by police over an allegation he failed to self-isolate after returning from a trip to Dubai and instead went to work at the Kirby Muxloe facility, which is also Poundstretcher’s headquarters.
“At around 8.55pm on Tuesday (4 August) we received a report that a man was not adhering to Covid-19 government regulations,” said a Leicestershire Police spokeswoman.
“The incident was reported to have taken place at 9am the same day at a premises in Desford Lane, Kirby Muxloe.
“An officer contacted the man at his home address. He was given words of advice and encouraged to follow the recent government regulations regarding self-isolating.”

84757 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #54 of 1308 🔗


The British Government Admits the COVID 19 Deaths are Inflated

84815 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #55 of 1308 🔗

Yes and Hancock said there would be an inquiry but it seems to have been quietly dropped.

84933 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #56 of 1308 🔗

Results are due this week I think?

86161 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to A. Contrarian, #57 of 1308 🔗

Thanks I’ll be very interested in seeing them but I fully expect a sweeping under the carpet exercise concluding with “nothing to see here”.

85531 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bella Donna, #58 of 1308 🔗

I’m sure the BBC will be keeping tabs on this one.

84760 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 33, #59 of 1308 🔗

Anyone else fancy setting up a “Non-COVID Lives Matter” campaign to highlight all the people being killed by the Gov’s and NHS’s pure focus on COVID-19?

84766 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to JohnB, 8, #60 of 1308 🔗

Good idea, sadly I don’t get the impression that many in senior NHS positions or establishment actually care about anything other than about their ‘new normal’ agenda.

84783 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, 40, #61 of 1308 🔗

I’m sick to the back teeth of these stupid selfish f*ckers now spouting their “Save grandma” or “If it saves one life”. They don’t care about anyone apart from themselves and making themselves look virtuous. They’re complicit in allowing people to die by denying them treatment by endorsing these restrictions. These people are the real killers and murderers, not those who will not wear masks or want to end this stupidity.

84799 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to JohnB, 19, #62 of 1308 🔗

Of course.
Our lockdowns were known from the start to lead to 1.4 million more tuberculosis deaths in the 3rd world (Ditiu) and tens of millions of poverty and hunger related deaths Oxfam, World Bank, common sense).
The decision makers, their advisers and the supporters of the decisions made, least of all the eticists, didn’t give a fig about those people, and still don’t.
The ethicists business now just seems to be legitimizing racism and genocide.
Only Belarus and Sweden have evaded any co-responsibility for this mass murder, or if you want to be nicer, mass manslaughter.
They should all face trial in The Hague, ASAP.

85541 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #63 of 1308 🔗

And their heads on spikes, just before the trial.

84810 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 18, #64 of 1308 🔗

The response to this virus is the apotheosis of the abomination that is “if it saves one life its worth it”

This thinking has been so prevalent over the last 20-25 years that it has infantilised society, made people risk adverse and weakened even destroyed bonds of trust between people.

What we’re seeing now is pretty much what we’ve been having for a while now but only in a more large scale and grotesque way.

If we want our society back then we must expunge that poisonous thinking and trust people once again.

85547 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #65 of 1308 🔗

The real problem is those in government, who have have taken the Bill Gates shilling.

84811 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 12, #66 of 1308 🔗

Ask them if they think they have killed anyone in the past? “Eh? No. What do you mean?” Before you wore a mask maybe you killed people with flu. Do you think you are a killer? Gives them someyhong to think about. Again, only suitable for certain types.

84963 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Basics, 5, #67 of 1308 🔗

Careful with that – they’ll just say we should wear masks forever then to keep us “safe” from flu – now that they are a-woke-n to the danger!

84865 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 11, #68 of 1308 🔗

Save Granny: never,ever visit her again. You might have an asymptomatic infection, any one of a thousand pathogen infections that could kill her. Let her rot alone in the care home entirely cut off from family. That will signal your virtue.

Why don’t grandad lives matter, by the way…

84929 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to OKUK, 4, #69 of 1308 🔗

In most people’s subconscious:

Granny = sweet little old lady knitting bootees
Grandad = smelly, hairy old git

84956 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #70 of 1308 🔗

This is scary, you know who we are!! (Except Grandad’s not all that hairy any more, especially on top. 🙂 )

84974 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #71 of 1308 🔗

Hairy in all the wrong places 😉

84980 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #72 of 1308 🔗

That’s about it – so you do know!

85031 ▶▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to OKUK, 8, #73 of 1308 🔗

Well put. Their concern for elderly relatives leads them to leave them to rot lonely and terrified in a care home. Despicable cowards.

85772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to paulito, #74 of 1308 🔗

Some Grandparents have been refusing to see their grandchildren. Or expecting them to stay out in the garden, like dirty dogs.

85549 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to OKUK, 1, #75 of 1308 🔗

Grandads are often already dead.

85010 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to JohnB, 23, #76 of 1308 🔗

I despise these selfish, ignorant cowards, who hide their selfishness, ignorance and cowardice behind their “concern” for other people. They are as responsible as any in our criminal governments around the world f or the economic destruction, the denial of medical treatment to the sick and the psychological abuse of our children. Their concern for others rings hollow as their gleeful cheerleading for the criminal restrictions, designed to suck all the joy from life, rob us of our basic humanity. I wish we could quarantine these people, live our lives apart as normal and leave them to the death in life that they seem to crave. I really ducking hate them.

85139 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to paulito, 1, #77 of 1308 🔗

Well said totally agree I hate them

85075 ▶▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to JohnB, 2, #78 of 1308 🔗

In a chilling reminder of the times we now live in, readers in comments below a sceptic article by Ross Clark on The Telegraph’s website are thanking the paper for publishing free thought rather than expecting it.

85276 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to JohnB, 7, #79 of 1308 🔗

“Save grandma” or “If it saves one life”.

My answer to those are that the NHS has already killed people’s grandmas and grandfathers by sending infectious elderly into care homes, and what about all the lives not saved by the NHS because the NHS shut up shop to everyone without CV19, and people were too terrified to go to hospital. Not to mention the withdrawal of all cancer treatment and diagnoses…

84788 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 6, #80 of 1308 🔗

Great idea. This is the REAL scandal of this horror …

84762 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 68, #81 of 1308 🔗

The video from Australia is absolutely shocking but even more shocking is the lack of public or media condemnation of the police actions (can you imagine the outrage and protests if this was a BLM protestor being treated this way). This is a young lady not wearing a mask hardly a big deal. People really need to stand up to this authoritarian nonsense.

84798 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Darryl, 6, #82 of 1308 🔗

I see them all over the sidewalks, gutters and streets of Montreal.

Last week I saw a local bus with a 5G ad poster pasted outside on its billboard. This week I saw the same bus and the billboard was empty. Too early?

84802 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Darryl, 12, #83 of 1308 🔗

Not black so nobody cares

84854 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, 9, #84 of 1308 🔗

The Aussie High Commission phone number is 0207 379 4334 .

I suggest ringing to let them know how inspiring their police behaviour and draconian nonsensical legislation are, and how acceptance of this totalitarian shite enhances their country’s image.

85061 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to JohnB, 4, #85 of 1308 🔗

I think we would be wasting our time. Absolutely no resistance from the Australians, they will have to live with the new authoritarian country they are creating. Very sad.

84870 ▶▶ John Church, replying to Darryl, 11, #86 of 1308 🔗

Agree – totally shocked by that video. That was Australia !!! Are they serious ????

84999 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Darryl, 7, #87 of 1308 🔗

My thoughts exactly. What happened to that young lady is not very far removed from what sadly happened in the US and fuelled the BLM protests. The police officer was proper strangling her.

85065 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Moomin, 7, #88 of 1308 🔗

Makes you wonder what he would have done if he wasn’t being filmed. I have a feeling she would have had a stay in hospital.

85642 ▶▶▶▶ Paul Mendelsohn, replying to Darryl, 2, #89 of 1308 🔗

….and died of covid.

85044 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Darryl, #90 of 1308 🔗

Was it the same police officers from last week?

85057 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to richard riewer, 9, #91 of 1308 🔗

I have seen lots of authoritarian police videos from Australia recently. The police chief wearing an all black uniform saying people will be dealt with if they break the draconian laws was incredibly sinister. Sadly the police seem to have full public support – unbelievable.

85051 ▶▶ Linda B, replying to Darryl, 20, #92 of 1308 🔗

The video of the Police manhandling the girl in Australia was shocking. Her only crime seems to be that she wasn’t wearing a mask. Her boyfriend claimed many times that she had a medical note from the doctor. At the very least why did the police not try to find out what the medical exemption was for. Not one of the many police who appeared on the scene asked to see the note or to telephone her surgery. ..What a dreadful dreadful advertisement for Australia –

85062 ▶▶ nat, replying to Darryl, 3, #93 of 1308 🔗

I know I know, I am signing petitions as fast as I can, calling for state premier Dickhead Dan to get the sack. Meanwhile we are told we face years of mandatory mask wearing until a vaccine is found


Have a laugh at Dan’s expense. Reporter asks him why traffic wardens are allowed to work during stage 4 lockdown/curfew. Very funny


85342 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Darryl, 10, #94 of 1308 🔗

It just goes to show that democracies are only a sliver of fear away from totalitarianism if police can act in such a way to enforce the pointless health theatre of wearing a mask in the street. That officer should be ashamed of himself.

85348 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Darryl, 3, #95 of 1308 🔗

I wish but the public are supportive of this. They’re glad that these people are being ‘taught lessons’.

86347 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Darryl, #96 of 1308 🔗

If the comments are correct in the video, she actually has a doctor’s note to say she doesn’t need one.

84764 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 42, #97 of 1308 🔗

Just posted this on my FB page:

‘I’ve just had to pick up and discard a face mask that was blowing down the road outside my garage.

If you insist on wearing the stupid, useless things then can you at least dispose of them properly?! If you believe the rhetoric then presumably they’re a potential bio-hazard since they trap so many germs, so you’re actually potentially putting other lives in danger.’

84794 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Moomin, 6, #98 of 1308 🔗

Well, they are medical waste and therefore supposed to be dealt with by incineration.

84807 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Moomin, 10, #99 of 1308 🔗

Yes, they’re really thinking of others when they toss their revolting used masks in the street aren’t they …

84939 ▶▶ annie, replying to Moomin, 3, #100 of 1308 🔗

If your dud arded mask destroys one life, it’s worth it.

84997 ▶▶ Christian B, replying to Moomin, #101 of 1308 🔗

I hope you had a bottle of sanitiser on you so you could cleanse your hands afterwards!

85142 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Moomin, 1, #102 of 1308 🔗

Seen gloves and masks littering the streets ,disgusting.

85296 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #104 of 1308 🔗

Cancelling Cancer Treatment – is there a case for negligence?
The law –
Singh LJ summarises the position in medical cases between paragraphs 83 and 89:
‘Article 2 imposes both substantive positive obligations on the state and procedural obligations.
The primary substantive positive obligation is to have in place a regulatory framework compelling hospitals, whether
private or public, to adopt appropriate measures for the protection of patients’ lives.
The primary procedural obligation is to have a system of law in place, whether criminal or civil, by which individual
failures can be the subject of an appropriate remedy. In the law of England and Wales that is achieved by having a
criminal justice system, which can in principle hold to account a healthcare professional who causes a patient’s death by
gross negligence; and a civil justice system, which makes available a possible civil claim for negligence. We note that, in
the present case, there is in fact an extant civil claim which has been brought by the Claimant against the NHS Trust
which ran the hospital (which is the First Interested Party in the present judicial review proceedings).
The enhanced duty of investigation, which falls upon the state itself to initiate an effective and independent investigation,
will only arise in medical cases in limited circumstances, where there is an arguable breach of the state’s own substantive
obligations under Article 2.
Where the state has made adequate provision for securing high professional standards among health professionals and
the protection of the lives of patients, matters such as an error of judgment on the part of a health professional or
negligent coordination among health professionals in the treatment of a particular patient are not sufficient of themselves
to call the state to account under Article 2.
However, there may be exceptional cases which go beyond mere error or medical negligence, in which medical staff, in
breach of their professional obligations, fail to provide emergency medical treatment despite being fully aware that a
person’s life would be put at risk if that treatment is not given. In such a case the failure will result from a dysfunction
in the hospital’s services and this will be a structural issue linked to the deficiencies in the regulatory framework.
At the risk of over-simplification, the crucial distinction is between a case where there is reason to believe that there may
have been a breach which is a “systemic failure”, in contrast to an “ordinary” case of medical negligence’

It is also noted that, at para. 21 in the case of Rabone v Pennine Care NHS Trust [2012] UKSC 2,
Lord Dyson said the following:
“… It is clear that the existence of a ‘real and immediate risk’ to life is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the
existence of the duty. This is because … a patient undergoing major surgery may be facing a real and immediate risk of
death and yet the Powell case shows that there is no Article 2 operational duty to take reasonable steps to avoid the
death of such a patient.”

Para. 196 of the case Lopes de Sousa Fernandes v Portugal (app. no. 56080/13), judgment of 19
December 2017, the Court (Grand Chamber) said:
“There must be a link between the dysfunction complained of and the harm which the patient sustained.”

Again at para. 196, the Court said:
“The dysfunction at issue must have resulted from the failure of the State to meet its obligation to provide a regulatory
framework in the broader sense indicated above …”

85401 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #105 of 1308 🔗

Original lockdown breached seven fundamental articles of the Human Rights Convention.
Most of them still breached. Right to travel, right of assembly, right to religious worship…
The Act doesn’t mention the right to have a face. Presumably the draughtsmen couldn’t envisage any government being so monstrous as to forbid that.

84769 Sir Gus, replying to Sir Gus, 2, #106 of 1308 🔗

I cannot get the forums to work. Using Chrome on a Mac.

84776 ▶▶ rms, replying to Sir Gus, #107 of 1308 🔗

try using another browser, re-boot, etc. without error message impossible really help. Working fine here with up to date Chrome and OSX.

84778 ▶▶ Toby Young, replying to Sir Gus, #108 of 1308 🔗

My bad. Forgot to include a link. Fixed now.

84771 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 19, #109 of 1308 🔗

The Victorian policemen and – women are prime candidates for any Milgram experiment.
How quickly Eichmann and Harrah Arendt have been forgotten.
No one has the right to obey!
Eternal shame on them, or ideally, prison.

84785 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Jay Berger, 10, #110 of 1308 🔗

A real life Stanford prison experiment. How quickly people forget indeed.

84882 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #111 of 1308 🔗

Feed them to the crocodiles.

84884 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to richard riewer, 7, #112 of 1308 🔗

What did the crocodiles do to deserve that?

85495 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, #113 of 1308 🔗

The crocodiles deserved better. Death by a thousand cuts is preferable.

84774 karenovirus, 12, #114 of 1308 🔗

3/4 million off the payroll plus 250,000 newly not self-employed.

1 million

Cheers boris, 4 months ago I actually thought you were great. Btw, what have you done with Jacob ? Stuck him in the broom cupboard with Diane & Jezza ?

84777 richard riewer, 7, #115 of 1308 🔗

Alex’s Droogs have taken over the Melbourne police force.

84779 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #116 of 1308 🔗

80% drop in apprenticeshios being started in Scotland, stugeon to hit the problem with £10 million. £2 for each head of population.

A very sickly, nay baggy, dishevelled looking sturgeon has been rolled out to the pulpit today. Not a good night’s sleep?

Now telling the nation that where you can you must work from home.

No deaths for 26 days from her own gob which yet again contradicts the rigisters of scotland death count which says at least seven deaths occurred in the early part of that period.

Any child that wants to mask up will be supported to do so.
Hand sanitizers for leaving and entering rooms, at breaks and so on.

Self isolate. Super vigilance required by schools. Asked to return home if symptoms seen. Household 14 day isolatation.

Questions now. BBC then ITV both on Football – schools are off limits clearly.
Sturgeon, “I regret that some football players are not following the guidance”. Flagrantly breaching ‘the’ guidelines … oh how calderwood echos through the ages, sturgeon can’t have priviledges footballers breaching – but sut calderwood was a blip until calferwood got out of the clutches in the only way open to her professionally. Now CMO (acting?) is putting on pretend anger – the risked the health of the POPULATION! They put at risk the return of elite sport… this is the CMO speaking not a politician mind.

Sturgeon had a little chuckle,”I don’t order the SPA to do anything”, chuckle. More hand wafting akin to kermit hands on sticks. Talking pointlessly, to take up air time? Hair do is truly awful, I’m not sure it’s hers.

CMO is outside his authority, but then there is no enforcing power to carry out what he is telling people they cannot do.
A footballer flew to Spain for a day (Greta?) Really sturgeon is not progressing in her chat. Nearly 10 minutes of football unintelligence.

Thank F. sky are leaving the conference. Drivel. And I waste of money paying a first minister and cmo wage for that.

84795 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 7, #117 of 1308 🔗

Her 6 figure salary is not reflected in her performance.

Scotland is shaping up to be one of the dreariest places, thanks to our Stupid Numpty Party.

84879 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Basics, 1, #118 of 1308 🔗

On that basis, Scotland is now officially done for.

84971 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 3, #119 of 1308 🔗

Each day I have to suffer several minutes of her hand gestures while waiting for the snooker to start. Muted, obviously.

85318 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 1, #120 of 1308 🔗

i read that but i must have had a stroke because i’ve no fucking idea what you are saying. Are you pissed?

84780 richard riewer, 6, #121 of 1308 🔗

The State is Great. Everybody kneel down and give praise. OM!

84781 Margaret, 5, #122 of 1308 🔗

Hi Toby, many thanks for yet another excellent post. Just a suggestion-several of us have posted on yesterday’s page within the last 15 minutes before “changeover”

Any chance of giving us a nod that the new post is imminent please? It may save people having to post twice. Knowing that if they waited half an hour, they could then post on the latest page would be helpful. Thanks!

84782 james, replying to james, 5, #123 of 1308 🔗

New Zealand got the RONA!

84945 ▶▶ annie, replying to james, 2, #124 of 1308 🔗

What a surprise.
And no immunity.

84787 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 12, #125 of 1308 🔗

However, the official unemployment rate is not rising because to be counted among the unemployed, workers need to be actively looking for a new job

What? Here i was thinking that unemployed meant “doesn’t have a job”. Who the heck makes up these absolutely idiotic rules?

84790 ▶▶ anon, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #126 of 1308 🔗

the number fudgers aka nudgers

84847 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to anon, #127 of 1308 🔗

This will help you to understand the numbers, it’s pretty straightforward:

84829 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 7, #128 of 1308 🔗

It was one of the many tricks brought in years ago to make the unemployment figures look better.

84839 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #129 of 1308 🔗

There is a US group called shadowstats that measure unemployment using the traditional counting methods from pre 1994.


If anyone knows of a similar site in the UK, I’d love to know.

84916 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #130 of 1308 🔗

Shadowstats! Great site, I’d forgotten about them. Yes, they add long-term discouraged workers to U6 and a rate closer to 35%. I suspect the real rate is somewhere between the 16+% of U6 and 35%. Horrifying, regardless.

84890 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #131 of 1308 🔗

That’s government Newspeak from days gone still going strong today. It’s a brilliantly successful way to confound the public.

84910 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #132 of 1308 🔗

Unfortunately, this has been true for a while. To count as unemployed in the US and the UK, you need to be actively seeking work. That was the US definition back in the late 80s when I used to teach economics in America.

As Steve says, it’s intended to make the figures look better. You can see a breakdown of U1 through U6, along with definitions, for the US here: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm .

Apparently, U6 hit a high of 22.8% but has fallen to 16.5%. I expect that we will see similar rates here once the distorting effect of the furloughs goes away.

84937 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #133 of 1308 🔗

… and where do they get these ‘actively looking for work’ numbers? Not everybody go via job centres or claim unemployment benefits.

84791 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 11, #134 of 1308 🔗

Is Jacinda Ardern wearing Coronadentures?

A very toothy smile.

84800 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #135 of 1308 🔗

Thanks wendyk, my laugh out loud moment today …. (just seen your post as I swelter in my kitchen at work!) 🙁

btw, belated Happy Birthday ….

84808 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 3, #136 of 1308 🔗

Thanks kh! PS my new bin was delivered this morning! The hills are alive with the sound of music…….lockdown themes…… 🙄

84818 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #137 of 1308 🔗

Glad to hear it. Blimey, it’s come to something when a new bin elicits such joy!

84821 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 2, #138 of 1308 🔗

Little things mean a lot-( when life is so restricted) 😐

84828 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 4, #139 of 1308 🔗

I know. I’m beside myself with excitement at my discovery of Milk & More. It’s like Xmas outside kh towers in the morning now: he’s been!

85050 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, #140 of 1308 🔗

🥛 🥛 😃

84950 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 2, #141 of 1308 🔗

If it’s got a lid, you’d better donate it to your local school. Teaching unions say schools can’t open without a bin with a lid.

84805 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to wendyk, 4, #142 of 1308 🔗

A smiling psychopath.

84840 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to richard riewer, 2, #143 of 1308 🔗

And another ‘chosen one’ with a made-up back story that does not ring true:


She is ‘ordinary’ and from a ‘state school’ like that other chosen Blairite globalist, David Miliband.

84891 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #144 of 1308 🔗

Mediocre is more like it.

84912 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to richard riewer, 4, #145 of 1308 🔗

From the wiki page

“After graduating from the University of Waikato in 2001, Ardern began her career working as a researcher in the office of Prime Minister Helen Clark. She later worked in London, within the Cabinet Office, and was elected president of the International Union of Socialist Youth.”

A sequence of long distance digital nods and winks to groom, shape and mould.

84986 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, #146 of 1308 🔗

Yes, also her dad, a policeman who ended up as a diplomat!

85134 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #147 of 1308 🔗

Her aunt a political something. Wiki has her in both new york soup kitchens and employed in NZ gov at the same time if my reading is better than my writing.

Milliband like is a good call. She was in Blairs uk gov researching.

84792 Jay Berger, 4, #148 of 1308 🔗

The Patrick Fagan article is indeed splendid and spot on.
The Victorian police confirming its observations and conclusions most impressively.
The ‘Face Masks make you stupid’ study also already observed that people, even children, commit more crimes and fall into more antisocial behavior patterns when hiding behind a mask.
And the support or non-reaction of the public has been well explained by Gustave Lebon, over a hundred years ago.

84796 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 34, #149 of 1308 🔗


Absolutely brilliant article from a Swedish doctor on how Sweden has practically eliminated Covid after 4 months, all while avoiding a state-enforced lockdown. I like this article because it is written in a very measured, rational way so fence-sitters may be more receptive to it as opposed to aggressive diatribes about how harmful lockdown is.

Once again, Sweden is embarrassing the rest of the world.

85490 ▶▶ John Church, replying to Poppy, 3, #150 of 1308 🔗

Totally agree. Brilliant article for all the reasons you state. It was extremely well timed with the news coming out from NZ that Jacinda Aherne has put their country back into lockdown.
We are at a point of inflection. A month or 2 ago everyone was castigating Sweden and lauding praise on NZ, but the truth of THIS matter cannot be hidden and as Sweden (and other countries) now start to look very normal, and as NZ and Australia continue their self destruction, it will not be possible to just gloss over these facts.

84797 jimm, replying to jimm, 4, #151 of 1308 🔗
85558 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to jimm, 3, #152 of 1308 🔗

Thanks for posting this. It is is a very good piece of work and I strongly recommend it. The doctor catalogues the dirty dealings so far about HCQ and it makes shocking reading.

We have three genocides here:

  1. The care-home deaths in almost every country, including Sweden.
  2. The people denied HCQ treatment by criminal politicians and ‘experts’ who know it works but because there’s no money in it, they push their dodgy treatments/vaccines instead, censoring, ‘cancelling’ and discrediting everyone who tries to use it or advocate for its use.
  3. The number of people who will die because they are being denied NHS treatment for non-CV19 conditions. Health Service Journal and the NHS have recently published figures which show 8.4million to 10 million people on NHS waiting lists by April next year. It will be more if they do not meet the revised targets.

How do we get this across to the brainwashed?

85881 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to jimm, #153 of 1308 🔗

This is a really excellent article – thank you.

84803 Locked down and out, replying to Locked down and out, 1, #154 of 1308 🔗

Julia Stephenson seems my kinda girl.

85590 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Locked down and out, #155 of 1308 🔗

Are you tall enough?

84806 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 24, #156 of 1308 🔗

Every day confirms Johnson and Co. are a disaster for this country. Whilst he takes photo opportunities at schools he avoids any adult confrontation proving the government to be utter cowards. The longer they draw out this farce the greater the kickback when they discover what a fraud Johnson really is. If only we had an opposition party worthy of the name, Starmer is just another hopeless Blairite waiting in the wings.

84850 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #157 of 1308 🔗

I imagine they will be in less of a hurry to repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act now….

86464 ▶▶ flyingjohn, replying to Bella Donna, #158 of 1308 🔗

Yes, Starmer is a hopeless and ineffectual Blairite, but he will be Prime Minister in just over 4 years. BoJo has handed it to him on a plate and is just keeping Starmer’s seat warm in the meantime.

84809 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 6, #159 of 1308 🔗

The Mayor of London is a sadistic con.

84813 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, 9, #160 of 1308 🔗

He needs to go. Does nothing but virtue signal, jump on every bandwagon and sticks his nose into affairs that has nothing to do with him (ex. Trump)

Whilst at the same time he has done SFA with knife crime, gangs, transport, housing – precisely the stuff that’s under his remit.

84843 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #161 of 1308 🔗

Sounds like the Mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio.

85100 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #162 of 1308 🔗


14 stabbed ,murders and 2 bodies found over last weekend both Kahn and Cressida Dick need to be sacked pronto as they both think asking people to shame their fellow citizens for not wearing masks is far more important than tackling violent crime

85171 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to tonyspurs, #163 of 1308 🔗

Yep – both useless, stupid and have misplaced priorities – the Twedledum and Twedledee of London.

85263 ▶▶ peter, replying to richard riewer, 2, #164 of 1308 🔗

He proves the motto like Boris & Cranky, scum always floats to the top

84812 Bruno, replying to Bruno, 4, #165 of 1308 🔗

The freakishly risk averse attitude to schools reopening comes in part from America, where it’s so expensive to get ill if you aren’t insured. Hence the measures advocated by Harvard below, which look capable of ensuring no child ever gets a cold again! To the child’s detriment of course, as no exposure to, or immunity from, disease is dangerous. They are likely to suffer worse effects in the end:

84905 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bruno, 4, #166 of 1308 🔗

America has a middle class that’s very different to the British one, but does share that risk averse attitude. The poor, on the other hand, just have to suck it up. They probably need schools to reopen since they can’t afford to stay home and do child care. Without even a furlough, I’m sure things are already far more dire than here.

84814 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 55, #167 of 1308 🔗

Out and about this morning posting the letters to Boris and his cohorts.

I know, waste of time and money but I feel better knowing I’ve had my rant and told them what I think of them even if they never read it. I even slept better.

Conversation in Post Office:

“You’re not wearing a mask”

Me: No I’m not

“You need to”

Me: Not going to and as a shop staff member you don’t need to either

“I’m vulnerable, I’m taking mumble mumble mumble for mumble mumble” – couldn’t hear here as I’m mostly deaf but wasn’t interested anyway.

Me: Has the Post office given you a risk assessment and told you to watch out for bacterial infections, pleurisy, low oxygen and so on?

“No but I will take the chance with a bacterial infection rather than a dose of covid”

Me: You prefer a nasty bacteria in your lungs that can be very dangerous, could kill you or take a long time to treat when you have a 99.93% survival rate for a virus that has gone from the population?

” Funny you say that, the local doctor was in here a few days ago and he mentioned a rise in bacterial infections at his surgery in recent weeks.

I shook my head, paid an left.

84824 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #168 of 1308 🔗

“No but I will take the chance with a bacterial infection rather than a dose of covid”

So many [idiots] think like that. If they only know vulnerable and bacterial infections are a recipe for getting very sick and like you say is very dangerous.

84830 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Victoria, 12, #169 of 1308 🔗

as has been mentioned before . the overuse of bacterialogical sanitisers on top of the unmitigated overuse of antibiotics over the years are going to result in mutations of bacteria for which antibiotics are no longer effective.
Then we go back to the good old days when a scratch on the finger leads to an infection for which we no longer have a cure and so your arm falls off and you die

84833 ▶▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to mjr, 4, #170 of 1308 🔗

I’ve told many this but it seems to go over their heads.

84893 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, 8, #171 of 1308 🔗

I think bacterial pneumonia kills more people than viral pneumonia…

84940 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nick Rose, #172 of 1308 🔗


86358 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Nick Rose, #173 of 1308 🔗

Yes, you are correct, it does. Fortunately, the older antibiotics are the best ones, now. There is still one antibiotic that works, on almost every bacterium, and you can make it yourself.

84845 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #174 of 1308 🔗

You should have told him that he is recycling bacteria with every breath he takes.

84856 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to richard riewer, 4, #175 of 1308 🔗

Didn’t sting sing that

85649 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stefarm, #176 of 1308 🔗

The stalkers song.

84816 Cheshirecatslave, 24, #177 of 1308 🔗

I don’t like the way the BBC is discussing wearing masks in the heatwave showing photos of people wearing them on the beach. There is no requirement to wear masks outdoors in the UK. Also the article fails to mention exemptions.

84819 Bart Simpson, 15, #178 of 1308 🔗

The headline just shows how much lockdown is costing us dear. The government’s harebrained scheme to get people out and about to spend money and visit our cultural treasures via mandatory muzzling has backfired. This will continue to ensure that people will continue to vote with their feet and wallets and avoid any leisure activities that involve a muzzle plus continuing to shop online or click and collect.

We haven’t seen the worst with redundancy and businesses going bust I’m afraid and it will continue as the months roll on, the longer this insanity continues.

84820 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 52, #179 of 1308 🔗

At the garden centre good to see more people realise outside is not enclosed so no mask needed but still many sanctimonious wankers around.

A few old people puffing and struggling breathing in the humid heat with a mask on.

One couple saw me and the wife unmuzzled so sneakily lowered their’s to under the nose. Later on we saw them the masks were off.

As we walked past them we saw they were looking round, very worried so I said along the lines of “don’t look so worried, you are not breaking the law as there is an exemption that says if you suffer distress or harm then you do not need to wear one and not breathing is pretty distressful and harmful plus only a policeman ask you about why you re not wearing a mask but you do not have to answer and he can’t force you so relax”.

Walked off and notice quite a few other older couples who must ahem been listening in slowly lowering their masks.

At hobby craft we were the only unmuzzled.

Chatting at the till while the wife’s material was being measured and cut she asked about exemptions as they had been told there were some but not told what, just warned not to ask anyone about not wearing a mask as the shop gets a fine.

With others listening in hanging round the tills (staff and customers) I explained the exemptions, who can ask bout them, what the fines are under the disability discrimination act including the £9000 personal liability for the staff member and then all the hazards of mask wearing.

Again in the background you could see the cogs going in some of the audience and maybe one or two and a lightbulb moment and went off to research for themselves.

All in all quite successful trip out.

84832 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #180 of 1308 🔗

Very well done AG. Proud of you. It sounds like my modus operandi-speak loudly and hope that the ear-wiggers are listening.

Was this by any chance at Bridgemere? We haven’t been there since muzzles were brought in so your report sounds very promising.

84837 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Margaret, 10, #181 of 1308 🔗

That’s the place.

Outside getting better.

Staff been told not to challenge anyone so walk straight in.

Talking loudly and let people eavesdrop seems to work quite well to eb honest.

84852 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #183 of 1308 🔗

Too bad that we can’t clone you a million fold. You have the gift of persuasion and reason.

84857 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to richard riewer, 2, #184 of 1308 🔗

Wife gets a bit pissed off with me at times when I’m doing it though.

84863 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #185 of 1308 🔗

Yes OH has to rein me in sometimes!

86361 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Margaret, #186 of 1308 🔗

Me too! (Oh, should I have used that phrase?)

85594 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #187 of 1308 🔗

Fantastic work!

84831 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 8, #188 of 1308 🔗

Anyone noticed that ‘improve you immune system’ is missing from the Government / NHS messages?

84846 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Victoria, 6, #189 of 1308 🔗

Stay indoors, reduce your vitamin D synthesis.

85459 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Victoria, 7, #190 of 1308 🔗

Yes, made me mad at beginning of lockdown. Told everyone to stay inside and deplete yourself of Vit D and compromise your immune system. What idiots!
Apparently the stupid lady doctor on ITV Good Morning gave “advice” how to protect yourself against flu this winter; Get vaccinated…
What about go out, get sunshine, eat healthy, exercise and loose some weight?
This year the vaccination will most likely be the totally wrong strain, like the last few years,

84834 Hester, replying to Hester, 28, #191 of 1308 🔗

What is happening to the “civilsed west”? The footage from Melbourne was disgusting over a mask! the same tactics as used on George Floyd and yet no one is up in arms about what has been done by these Policemen, and the Police woman who stood by and let that man sit on that woman for not wearing a mask. What a monster and what a monstrous country is Australia allowing such horrific brutal behaviour on a citizen for NOT wearing a mask. Where are our MSM in reporting this? is it perhaps because they agree with what was done to her?

84876 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Hester, 8, #192 of 1308 🔗

If someone had shown me that video in January I would have assumed it was fake. What fresh Hell is this? A county with under 400 deaths is so frightened of a young lady without a mask on. The bloody masks don’t even stop the virus FFS!

Someone posted a meme and I keep sending it to people who wear masks. I tried to post it here but content is too big. It’s a mask and virus magnified 25 x, you can imagine what it looks like.

84889 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #193 of 1308 🔗

try catbox.moe

easy to use and size shouldn’t be a problem

85185 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to anon, 8, #194 of 1308 🔗

comment image

85187 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, #195 of 1308 🔗

Thank you.

85905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Laura Suckling, #196 of 1308 🔗

welcome. thanks for the image

84903 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #197 of 1308 🔗

How about Monty Python’s the sound of a gnat sneezing at 20,000 times?

85080 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Hester, 4, #198 of 1308 🔗

Plus like…… George Floyd was a six foot ripped bloke.

That’s a TINY WOMAN.

84835 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 18, #199 of 1308 🔗

Sorry ,these jobs were not somehow ‘lost’ (which implies they were accidentally misplaced, although no one is to blame) Those jobs were thrown under the bus marked ‘Woke’, driven by a plump blonde bufoon, who despite a recent 80 seat Parliamentary majority, appears to have ‘lost’ his bottle (assuming he had some to start with, which seems increasingly unlikely) and decided that a good idea would be to move further and further towards a Blairite agenda – Conservative? Don’t make Elhelred laugh!
A lot of folk voted Tory for the first time ever last year (an 80 seat majority don’t come for free), but in the words of The Who, they, just like Ethelred, ‘Won’t get fooled again’

84894 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 1, #200 of 1308 🔗

We’ve already been fooled too many times already. This is ridiculous.

84915 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 3, #201 of 1308 🔗

‘Won’t get fooled again”

You must be joking. They were fooled first time round when it was obvious to anyone with half a brain that Johnson is a piece of primordial slime. And they’re bowing to his command now. Fooled, and fooled again. Why should it stop there?

84836 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 117, #202 of 1308 🔗

I’ve completely had enough of this. Everything should be back to normal now. It’s the middle of August. All sports and concerts should be back with full crowds. If you’re scared of a virus then don’t go. Simple. Obviously schools need to be back open properly, they never should have shut, neither should GP’s or Dentists and they need to be back open as normal. There is no need for any of it not to be. What is the actual justification now for this prolonged bullshit we are going through?

It was to prepare the NHS in March. The NHS should be more than prepared now for any increase in numbers, they’ve had 5 months (Not that hospitals have many patients in them now anyway nor would there be an increase if everything was back to normal) What has annoyed me from the start is why is it that it’s the general public’s problem that the NHS weren’t/aren’t ever prepared for anything? We fund it. We should not have to suffer because they are shambolically run.

I never thought in all my life I would ever experience the amount of absolute shit and drivel that has gone on for the last 5 months and continues to go on.

84841 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Hubes, 37, #203 of 1308 🔗

All because the government is frightened of back-pedalling. The opposition continue to miss an open goal. But then, the opposition believe in “harder lockdown, earlier” so maybe the same fear in them, too. But the bulk of the blame for the entire mess, sits on the shoulders of the government. And the cowardice of the Prime Minister.

84872 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #204 of 1308 🔗

yeah hm there’s also this communism that they’re busy rolling out

never thought I’d see it in this country. so soon at least. and blatantly imposed (in my view – clearly not the masses – none so blind as those that can’t see etc)

84918 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to anon, 4, #205 of 1308 🔗

But when they wake up… Can’t keep the scam going forever.

84946 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #206 of 1308 🔗

yes it’s difficult to see the wood for the trees right now

plus boots on faces ratcheting up (what’s happening in oz would have been UNBELIEVABLE 6 months ago)


tide goes out.

tide comes back in.

84957 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to anon, 4, #207 of 1308 🔗

Carrying with it the flotsam and jetsam of discarded masks.

85001 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to anon, 6, #208 of 1308 🔗

It always comes back in.

For years, many people have believed the reason there has never been a revolution in Britain is because of the placidity of the people here. Nothing however is further from the truth. There have been many revolutions over the centuries. The difference is that they’ve not been of the heads-in-baskets, blood-in-the-streets revolutions.

There have always been enough people with a finger on the pulse. Whether the Glorious Revolution, the Great Reform Act, repeal of the Corn Laws, State Pension, Adult Suffrage, Welfare State, the country has continuously reinvented itself. Sure, it needed a battle, but not guillotines and camps.

For sure it’s never been perfect, but what revolution ever WAS perfect?

85179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #209 of 1308 🔗

Someone told me that the British are not like the French who build barricades and take to the streets, the former expresses their views forcefully through the ballot box.

That said it might change, there’s always a first time for everything.

84919 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to anon, -6, #210 of 1308 🔗

Communism??? This is explicitly good old-fashioned rightist totalitarianism – with nobs on.

84924 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 7, #211 of 1308 🔗

Old-fashioned rightist totalitarianism is national. If it’s international, it’s Communist. Where *have* you been the past 103 years?

84927 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to RickH, 4, #212 of 1308 🔗

What’s the difference? I see the political spectrum as a torus (a American doughnut), the further right, or left, you end in the place place, the opposite of where we need to be.

84969 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #213 of 1308 🔗

I think we can all agree that we don’t like it, and more importantly that it won’t lead to improvement in human happiness or achievement. What characterises it above all is an utter lack of regard for the truth.

85000 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Julian, 9, #214 of 1308 🔗

On the demonstration in London on the 1st August I took great satisfaction in participating in the chant outside the BBC building – “No More Lies!”

84984 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, #215 of 1308 🔗

Also known as Fascism.

85074 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 4, #216 of 1308 🔗

Write ‘fascist’ on one side of a piece of paper. White ‘communist’ on the other. Pick it up with one hand on one side and one on the other. Bring your hands together. You bringing your hands together is the practical implementation of these two ‘diametrically opposed’ philosophies.
In practice, they are exactly the same thing. Boots on human faces.

Politics was doing this shit way before Christopher Nolan.

85382 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 5, #217 of 1308 🔗

Absolutely correct.
Bend rightist totalitarianism round in a circle and you have leftist totalitarianism. No difference.

85481 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to RickH, 2, #218 of 1308 🔗

State collectivism. Doesn’t matter what it’s called.

85048 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #219 of 1308 🔗

They are behaving like some children caught in a lie. And getting very irritated that they’ve been caught out.

85156 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #220 of 1308 🔗

All because the government are under the control of Bill Gates..

85264 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, 2, #221 of 1308 🔗

All because the government are under the control of Bill Gates..

That is the only scenario that makes sense

84842 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Hubes, 20, #222 of 1308 🔗

This is not going to end any time soon, and will in fact be intensifying by several orders of magnitude over the coming months. The New Normal is exactly that. I think we have until the end of this year to turn it around, and as things stand an extremely slim chance of doing so at best. After this there will be no going back.

84853 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, 10, #223 of 1308 🔗

Yep, I fear we never be back to normal unless we have the vaccine or blood on the streets. Short term all sporting events with all the crowd masked, I can’t help thinking that the last few games with those non playing staff masked were a dry run to get us used to seeing it. I can also see concerts being performed from behind a perspex screen with the crowd all masked, no singing or drinking. I for one won’t be attending the gigs next year i have re-arranged from this year with these kind of restrictions.

84883 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stefarm, 20, #224 of 1308 🔗

I think the loss of live music is particularly tragic. I spent much of my youth going to concerts. Best experiences of my life, really. All gone now for the current generation. More deaths of despair from that loss alone probably.

84936 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ConstantBees, #225 of 1308 🔗

Seems to leave only sex and drugs, Constant …

85071 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to JohnB, 4, #226 of 1308 🔗

But you can only have sex within your family bubble…

85383 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, #227 of 1308 🔗

‘Incest means keeping it in the family.’

85484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mr Dee, #228 of 1308 🔗

Wearing a mask and facing away

85149 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to stefarm, 5, #229 of 1308 🔗

Yup. Saw footage of the (lauded by the BBC) ‘first live performances’. One bloke and an acoustic guitar playing to a bunch of people that were all masked & swaying. Looked like a Zombie Hell to me. As a (now former, apparently) muso, I would hate to do that – I mean REALLY hate to do that. The whole point of live music is the connection with the audience and in that footage, well, there wasn’t one. My only comfort is that everything’s cancelled and no-one knows when (if) it’ll start again, so I won’t have to. (Hmm, did I say comfort?)

85485 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to ChrisDinBristol, #230 of 1308 🔗

Maybe Slipknot would have been a good choice for a first back gig.

85538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, #231 of 1308 🔗

A gig they had in Amsterdam was one of the last big gigs in the world pre-lockdown, I nearly went to it.

85160 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, 8, #232 of 1308 🔗

Having the vaccine is NOT the same as going back to normal… because we know what is on the way once a vaccine is available…covipass amongst other things.. Instead of no mask – no entry it will be no vaccine – no entry/job/school etc..

84855 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Richard O, 24, #233 of 1308 🔗

I agree, September and especially October is going to be the genuine test of ‘old normal’ and ‘new normal’. I am optimistic that a major credit event, plus some very angry young people, is going to call an end to this.

84866 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 13, #234 of 1308 🔗

I hope so TT. Someone yesterday said the mass redundancies have already begun. Plus Simon Dolan’s legal challenge might be interesting.

84878 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 15, #235 of 1308 🔗

Johnson has already prepped the Army for the dark winter, and he will not hesitate to deploy them on the streets for riot control. Prepare for mandatory masks everywhere, martial law, curfews, a second national lockdown, currency collapse, food shortages, power cuts, and a natural disaster (he actually warned of flooding a couple of weeks ago). Everything including the kitchen sink.

84897 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Richard O, 5, #236 of 1308 🔗

That is so depressing.

84908 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 5, #237 of 1308 🔗

Given how far we have come in the last 5 months, these are eminently realistic scenarios that have been war gamed at the top levels and spoon fed to the MSM to gauge public reaction.


The very future of humanity as we know it is at stake here, so this kind of pessimism, depressing as it is, can help us all harden our resolve to fight on.

84947 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, 3, #238 of 1308 🔗

Happy to fight, Richard. Fuck the pessimism tho’ …

84943 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 11, #239 of 1308 🔗

Not enough of them Richard. We deployed more than 20,000 troops to Northern Ireland in the 1970’s and they failed to contain one and a half million people. To fail to contain 67 million of us, you’ll need 890,000 troops.

Total armed forces personnel strength: 150,000

Not going to happen.

84955 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #240 of 1308 🔗

Plus one still clings to the belief that UK squaddies will not willingly shoot UK civilians. Maybe we’ll swap armies with somewhere really nasty, like Australia ? 🙂

84991 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, 10, #241 of 1308 🔗

The army is still one of the last patriotic institutions left in this country.I believe that if instructed to fire on British people then they would turn and depose the government.
We can only hope

85076 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #242 of 1308 🔗

Remember that the US govt. used mercenaries to quell the population in the New Orleans floods a few years ago.

85098 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mr Dee, #243 of 1308 🔗

Small mercies we are not in the European army

85110 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #244 of 1308 🔗

They usually use the National Guard, who come under the State Governor’s control, rather than the US Army, which comes under the Department for Defense.

85168 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #245 of 1308 🔗

But the 77th brigade are currently working against the people..

85105 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, -1, #246 of 1308 🔗

Not when they know a few years down the road they’ll be facing inquests and court cases. They’re neither blind nor stupid.

85500 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to JohnB, 1, #247 of 1308 🔗

They did in Northern Ireland. They just need to believe it’s the right thing. The greater good. Imagine a crack team of soldiers who have been brainwashed to believe (like most) that non-vaxxers and non-mask wearers are going to kill millions and they must be stopped.

85005 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #248 of 1308 🔗

As a whole we are a much more docile population so it could be argued that far fewer resources would be required to subdue us.

85111 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, #249 of 1308 🔗

Far from convinced of that. Might take a bit to rile us, but once riled, anything might happen.

85119 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Richard O, 10, #250 of 1308 🔗

I think we’re more likely to just ignore the gvt. en masse. Like poll tax. Although that ended badly lol

But initially, most people just won’t comply with stupid rules. It’s what the gvt. does in response that is important. Personally, seeing their reaction to BLM protests, I think they’d shit themselves and back down immediately. Well, either that or just carry on regardless, with people ignoring them en masse. Actually I think the latter is probably the most likely. Pretty likely, actually, in the long term. I can see a situation where the gvt. is just diddling along, completely disconnected from everyone else, even Parliament. We’re already there already when you tihnk about it but people are still listening currently. Won’t last forever.

The test would be if they locked down the whole country again. Then it would be 50/50, could go either way. There would either be mass non-compliance (pretty likely) or riots. I think the gvt. is doing everything it can to avoid a flashpoint like this atm – hence the local lockdowns where only relatively small numbers of people are affected. The rest of the country can easily turn a blind eye in the “I’m all right Jack” sense and compliance largely continues, whilst the gvt. get to look like they’re still ‘doing something’.

85018 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nick Rose, #251 of 1308 🔗

I read somewhere that one piece of legislation (Emergency Powers Act maybe) includes something about being able to “call up” all those with security industry accreditation i.e. bouncers and doormen which gives an extra 500 000 or so bodies to call upon to control us.

Can’t see many doormen or security guards other than a few nutters standing by the police and army when the shit hits the fan in their home town.

85028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #252 of 1308 🔗

The people in these jobs only do it for power anyway, so why wouldn’t they want more power?

85653 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, #253 of 1308 🔗

No more tips for bouncers if they join in.

86019 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #254 of 1308 🔗

They are managing to keep The Australians under control. Piece of cake.

85092 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Richard O, #255 of 1308 🔗

He’s imported more of the ‘special’ extra violent army to deal with dissenters. They’re stationed all around the country in 4 star hotels ready to charge when the order is given. Why else are they here? They have no employment skills. Our boys won’t fire on their own kind, but this lot won’t be using guns when machetes will do.

85125 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lili, 1, #256 of 1308 🔗

I know it’s hot. I recommend a few deep breaths, a cold shower and a cold beer.

85668 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, #257 of 1308 🔗

I recommend carrying a bigger machete …

85687 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnB, #258 of 1308 🔗

Ha ha, no, I’m a peaceable sort and wouldn’t look the part. I’m going to carry an even bigger graph, showing it’s all been over for 3 months, go home now children.

85162 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, #259 of 1308 🔗

Do people think he is going to copy Australia then?

85449 ▶▶▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Richard O, 1, #260 of 1308 🔗

But BLM protests will be exempt from enforcement no doubt.

85493 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Richard O, 4, #261 of 1308 🔗

There are numerous countries and US states that are basically back to old normal or never went away. There’s tons of data to point at.

We need people to stand together without violence or “conspiracy” theories (I believe most of them but it weakens our position) and just point at the EVIDENCE and say “We’ve had ENOUGH!”

87092 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Richard O, #262 of 1308 🔗

Sounds like Melbourne, Australia.

84934 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 20, #263 of 1308 🔗

The way to return to the old normal is to just do it. Ignore the bullshit and do it. We just need to be better organised…

84967 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, 25, #264 of 1308 🔗

That’s what I’m doing, both personally and at work. Been heartened by how many customers, once staunch mask-wearers, have now jettisoned the blasted things. Gel use also down and cash usage, up.

If people didn’t want normal, they wouldn’t be in here, but they clearly do (otherwise they’d be queueing outside my competitors and handing over their personal details, whilst being served by someone in a sweaty mask). Must say something … I just wish the response to the fact they’ve been totally had was more robust.

85112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 2, #265 of 1308 🔗

I agree. But one small step at a time is better’n nowt.

85173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Simon, replying to kh1485, #266 of 1308 🔗

It’s always the same, quick to implement and slow to reverse. People will slowly come around. But, it does sound that one by one we are winning :>)

85389 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, #267 of 1308 🔗

Give them time.
Count your takings.

85385 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #268 of 1308 🔗

BE the Old Normal.

85115 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #269 of 1308 🔗

I hope you’re right.

85487 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #270 of 1308 🔗

Wait until it’s cold, wet and dark and you’re queuing outside the chippy.

86331 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #271 of 1308 🔗

Yes! This is what I have been saying to my wife; wait until winter. When the small businesses are on their knees and the bills have increased due to more gas/electric being used, and the queue outside fades away on the grounds of “If you can’t be bothered to let us in out of the cold, then try selling your lunches to someone else; I’m going!”

THEN we’ll see how fast the sole proprietors and small businesses ignore this crap. We went out to a big restaurant chain this lunchtime. The staff asked us to complete the T&T form; I said “No.” The subject was instantly dropped and we were led to our table. That’s what happens when you need customers. Make it difficult for me or annoy me, and I’m going elsewhere. And you, dear member of staff, can kiss goodbye to your job.

Funny how we were treated well after that, and we, in turn, were very kind to the staff. The Old Normal.

84907 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, 4, #272 of 1308 🔗

The Nazis infiltrated Paris but the Resistance finally won the battle. If necessary we will to have organize an underground resistance movement of our own.

84917 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to richard riewer, 2, #273 of 1308 🔗

History teaches us that ultimately all totalitarian systems are defeated. The difference this time is that it is global, so the war will likely be much longer and the casualties far greater than ever before. I am completely at peace with the fact that I may not live to see this.

84930 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 2, #274 of 1308 🔗

Communism was global. It still failed. It still fell.

84954 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #275 of 1308 🔗

Significantly not in China, which became the incubator for the technocracy model that is now being rolled out globally. I sometimes wonder if the end of the Cold War was a false dawn, and the toxic ideologies that had run their course in the Soviet Union were transplanted into the West for the “long march through the institutions” that we now see in such horrific abundance, particularly in the English-speaking Western nations.

85117 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, #276 of 1308 🔗

The Chinese Communist Party changed and evolved. They knew that “pure” Communism had failed and it was time to try something else.

The fear driving all this in the West will change to contempt. Then it will fail. But I would love to know who is driving it in this country.

85391 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 3, #277 of 1308 🔗

Don’t say that.
When the collapse comes it will be swift.
We shall want you in the Sceptics’ Biggest Ever Bear Hug!

85038 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, 1, #278 of 1308 🔗

We have no major backers unlike the Resistance though. The majority of the French population didn’t want the Germans in their country, but with lockdown the majority of the population is in favour of it.

85122 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, 3, #279 of 1308 🔗

For now. The majority of the French didn’t want another major war in 1939 (or any other year). The scars from 1914-18 were still too fresh. But once the Nazis showed their true faces, attitudes soon changed.

Right now, people are still scared of the virus. The Press is already waking up to this being a spook. Bit by bit, they will turn. People too.

85639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Mendelsohn, replying to Nick Rose, #280 of 1308 🔗

Not seeing much evidence that they will turn. Time for some honest journalism to get to the bottom of who’s paying them.

85174 ▶▶▶▶ Simon, replying to richard riewer, 1, #281 of 1308 🔗

Underground would suit me fine as my place is pretty uncomfortable at the moment…

85669 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, #282 of 1308 🔗

The Resistance without Gen. Patton would not have got(ten) very far. 🙂

84844 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Hubes, 2, #283 of 1308 🔗

Hear hear

84849 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Hubes, 5, #284 of 1308 🔗

Very good post, although I would quibble with your ‘We fund it’ – in reality, We Over fund it!

85660 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #285 of 1308 🔗

Stop funding Public Health England and all of Blair’s Quangos. Defund them all.

84859 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Hubes, 27, #286 of 1308 🔗

Unfortunately, you won’t find support for this idea. The government made sure that people don’t stand together against them, but instead police eachother.

Look at the mask situation. “It’s not for your protection, it’s for the protection of others.” If it was for your own protection, then no one would give a damn if you walked around without one. You’re the one getting sick. But because it’s for everyone elses protection, now they care. You’re an antisocial psycho if you don’t have a mask. People will call you out because they believe you want to kill them. All of a sudden, the community polices itself.

You can notice this trend in a lot of other guidelines and measures. The net result is that people think that any talk of freedom is a direct threat to their lives and the lives of their loved ones. You cannot win as long as people think you want to kill them. That’s what has to change.

85512 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #287 of 1308 🔗

Frankly, my mother is 84 and I would rather she died than every child in the country must wear masks, social distance and get “tested” at school. And I love her. So there!

85661 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #288 of 1308 🔗

That is worse than devious. Psychopaths are so clever at turning logic on its head and manipulating people’s emotions and fears.

85676 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #289 of 1308 🔗

You cannot win as long as people think you want to kill them. That’s what has to change.

You mean actually kill them ?


86342 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to JohnB, #290 of 1308 🔗

Yes. Actually kill them. That’s the lie being put forward; it’s not an exaggeration. Go to any Australian News website and look at the comments section; it’s horrifying how low a once-tough people have fallen.

Fortunately, half the comments are “sceptic” types, but the other half (the totalitarian tip-toe followers) are so over the top with their agreement with these foul Australian police officers’ behaviour, that I despair for Australia (and NZ).

84867 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Hubes, 17, #291 of 1308 🔗

Very true and exactly as I feel, mad as Hell. But, what is worse, so many people cannot see the madness that has been inflicted on us all.

84926 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Hubes, 1, #292 of 1308 🔗

Me neither, it’s insane!

84968 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hubes, 5, #293 of 1308 🔗

Let’s all get a can if soray paint, find a wall, and write OLD NORMAL NOW

85006 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 7, #294 of 1308 🔗

My ‘Old Normal for Me!’ t-shirt just got a dirty look from a masked-up millenial (who ordered a decaf’ cappuccino made with oat milk …)

Doing my best to offend the perennially woke!

85365 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisW, replying to kh1485, 1, #295 of 1308 🔗

I’d like an Old Normal t-shirt. Did you make it yourself or are they available online?

85395 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 2, #296 of 1308 🔗

De-caff with oat milk ought to be actionable.
Tell ’em oat milk harbours corona.

85677 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 1, #297 of 1308 🔗

Could a triple-espresso, for example, accidentally make its way into his decaff ?

84996 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hubes, 14, #298 of 1308 🔗

Dead right.
And we could restore the HighStreet within twelve hours. Remove all the Covid shit, if you don’t like it stay at home.

86021 ▶▶ flyingjohn, replying to Hubes, #299 of 1308 🔗

I believe there is a globalist agenda led by the WEF (aka Davos) which includes, of course, Big Pharma. They stand to make millions, perhaps trillions of dollars from a global vaccine programme. But the virus is dying too soon, so they have to keep up the fear and keep us subdued and compliant, hence the mask edicts (mind control). The masks, like the scaremongering, social distancing and clapping is a sophisticated system of mind control. We are being conditioned to accept more and more authority and less and less civil liberties. It may have started as a virus and public health thing, but it’s no longer about that. It’s about central government control.

I think Johnson is being manipulated. He and his Ministers are too naive and stupid to come up with a plot like this. I hear people say that they are disappointed in BoJo and expected him to have a pair of balls. He never, ever did. He’s an empty vessel, a very good example of politicians controlled by the State, Civil Service etc. May, Cameron and Major are other good examples of puppets, but Boris is in a class of his own.

God help us.

84838 wendyk, 6, #300 of 1308 🔗
84858 guy153, replying to guy153, 9, #301 of 1308 🔗

I usually try to avoid the news as it just makes me angry, but got spammed with this:


Unbelievable stupidity that has got to be deliberate. At the heart of Scotland’s plan to go “zero covid” is this claim:

“Currently, there are an estimated 10 to 30 daily infections in Scotland, compared to 2,800 in England.”

Wait, what? Scotland has about 1/10 the population of England. How can it have 1/100 the daily infections? The ONS Covid-19 Infection Survey does not extend to Scotland so we can’t easily see.

The estimate of 2800 daily infections in England is based on extrapolating from a (random) sample in England to the whole country. They actually found 24 positives out of 28501 tests. Then they extrapolate that to the whole country and basically divide by the number of days you (usually) test positive for to arrive at the estimate of the number of new cases per day. I say basically because they use a fancy model but it amounts to that.

This is a reasonable methodology and they show you the 95CI based on the accuracy of the test and the sample size.

But the “10 to 30 daily infections” in Scotland appear to be the absolute number of daily positive tests! http://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-trends-in-daily-data/
Looks like they’re finding about 30 positive every day out of about 10,000 tests (which isn’t the same as the number of new infections per day anyway). They really think they’re finding them all? They’re actually finding more “cases” per test than England, although this probably has more to do with the test kit they’re using than the actual number.

84868 ▶▶ Julian, replying to guy153, 5, #302 of 1308 🔗

Zero covid – certifiably insane

84875 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Julian, 3, #303 of 1308 🔗

Well especially for Scotland! It’s insane enough for New Zealand but at least sort of theoretically possible. But Scotland has already had the epidemic. Words fail me.

84885 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 4, #304 of 1308 🔗

Word is the Scottish Government plan to covid zero has been worked up on the old board game Mouse Trap. A civil servant found it in St Andrew’s House and asked, “why not?”.

84869 Awkward Git, 1, #305 of 1308 🔗

Found this quite an interesting speech:


This is website:


84871 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #306 of 1308 🔗

Here is a prediction:

“XXXXXXX is preparing the public for some form of alien disclosure or invasion scenario as they struggle to stay in power, Pentagon and other sources claim. The most likely scenario for this autumn is the cancellation of the U.S. Presidential election followed by a UFO distraction, the sources say.”

In a couple of months we’ll see if this guy as right or not – and it isn’t David Icke.

84874 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #307 of 1308 🔗

I don’t get it. Is it a fake pandemic to prepare us for a real alien invasion? Or is the alien invasion also going to be fake?

84887 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to guy153, #308 of 1308 🔗

No idea, maybe we’ll find out in October.

Wonder if paddy power is takin bets on it?

84896 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to guy153, 2, #309 of 1308 🔗

fake ..if it happens

I recall this being talked about eons ago. pretty sure the footage I saw was from the 80s. Australian gentleman. talked about how his elite buddies were boasting about this scenario

they’ve been pushing the alien narrative into the public subconscious for a while now either way

84913 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to anon, 1, #310 of 1308 🔗

Space travel is sooo slow these days… 😉

84922 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Nick Rose, #311 of 1308 🔗


well I wish i could remember this chap’s name. he was pretty convincing. couldn’t get over such a thing could be staged en masse however he seemed sure it would

will see I guess

I like AG’s idea of placing a bet. would they quibble over fake / real though (and should you ask for clarity up front?)

I think I have heat stroke today. hot humid and not much wind

85665 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to anon, #312 of 1308 🔗

It was hot and humid in Montreal today as well.

84911 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to guy153, 1, #313 of 1308 🔗

Nice of the aliens to give us the heads up. Not quite sure what people will be doing though. Hiding?

84914 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #314 of 1308 🔗

being looted / neutered by the hidden hand as usual

85086 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #315 of 1308 🔗

Didn’t David Icke say the lizards have hidden their spaceship behind the moon

85613 ▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #316 of 1308 🔗

Any self-respecting alien would take one look at the world today, shrug their little grey shoulders and fly off as fast as their warp drives could carry ’em.

85702 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #317 of 1308 🔗

This would be a really great time for them to intervene.

You listening chaps? The sane portion of humanity needs defending from the insane portion. Please help us.

84873 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 2, #318 of 1308 🔗
85302 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to smileymiley, 2, #319 of 1308 🔗

I almost couldn’t believe my eyes when I read that article. I had no idea that flu deaths were now 5x Covid-19 even in the middle of summer. 928 people die in one week from an infectious respiratory disease and it doesn’t even register on people’s consciousness!

There’s a glimmer of hope here in that clearly most deaths from respiratory diseases aren’t automatically being recorded as Covid. It would seem all too easy to manufacture a “second wave” by doing so, but so far that hasn’t happened.

85380 ▶▶ annie, replying to smileymiley, #320 of 1308 🔗


84877 OKUK, 2, #321 of 1308 🔗

Russians have developed a vaccine. After you, Ivan…

84880 Awkward Git, 1, #322 of 1308 🔗

I screwed up, deleted the wrong file on one drive so hopefully this should be the link to the open letter to Boris Johnson et al if I have done it right and not screwed up again with my filing and disk clean-up:


84881 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #323 of 1308 🔗

Apologies if this BBC article has been posted already: This is what coronavirus will do to our offices and homes
Basically, it shows what life will be like in 2025, five years from now, as we continue to live the “new normal.”

Lost the will to live reading that. However, thanks to Carl Vernon for talking about it on his YouTube channel.

84886 ▶▶ Julian, replying to ConstantBees, 10, #324 of 1308 🔗

Evil bastards, whoever created and published that. F**k off and ruin someone else’s country/planet. They are not normal and not human.

84888 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Julian, 3, #325 of 1308 🔗

Yes, it is truly sickening.

85009 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #326 of 1308 🔗

And of course the main character had to be “Laila”, a non-white woman! The whole thing, and the knobheads who wrote it, is enough to make you puke.

85686 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to ConstantBees, #327 of 1308 🔗

UK Column did a good piece on it the other day as well.


84892 anon, replying to anon, 9, #328 of 1308 🔗

it is baking hot right now in the Midlands

how anyone (even healthy) can stand to be muzzled in this is truly beyond me

84899 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to anon, 10, #329 of 1308 🔗

I saw more people riding the buses without one today, so practicality and common sense started to win out.

84901 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to ConstantBees, 4, #330 of 1308 🔗


I shudder to think what the stinking tube is like right now. even without a muzzle.

85072 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to anon, 3, #331 of 1308 🔗

There’s hardly anybody on the tube, last time I used it (week ago) so surprisingly pleasant. Khan’s done a top job of bankrupting TFL, not sure what his end-game is with that.

85108 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to zacaway, 5, #332 of 1308 🔗

Now they’re saying they’re going to have to take TFL running costs out of general taxation. Over my dead bloody body, when London already gets like 15 million times the money for transport per head the rest of country does. So many reasons I feel like leaving the country right now. So so many.

85175 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #333 of 1308 🔗


85701 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, #334 of 1308 🔗

No link, I heard someone saying (on the radio) that Sadiq Twatface had asked for more money for TFL because he’s run it into the ground, and failing that he’d like it funded from general taxation thanks. Dunno where they got their info but it sounds like him

85178 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Simon, replying to Farinances, #335 of 1308 🔗

As someone who has had no support whatsoever from the government I am very unlikely to start paying taxes in any great measure, like I was before. I now have my own business so I can imagine all sorts of things I need for it that are tax deductible…

85467 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Farinances, #336 of 1308 🔗

But where to go when most of the planet has lost the plot. Possibly North Sentinel island is the only place not affected and they don’t take well to strangers!

85192 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to anon, 1, #337 of 1308 🔗

The undergroud is a ghost town. Not many people wearing their muzzles properly and some kept touching their faces and muzzles like they’re trying to breathe.

84904 ▶▶ RickH, replying to anon, 8, #338 of 1308 🔗

Yes … I’ve just been down to the local phlebotomy department to get bloods done (I always go to the experts 🙂 ).

I really felt for the staff in the hospital having to wear masks in this weather – it’s clearly uncomfortable.

It’s the only situation where I actually wear a mask myself (well-sort of. Intermittently) in avoidance of conflict with people who are genuinely ill and staff looking after them – and there is no doubt that it is an uncomfortable and harmful experience.

What the f. is up with a society that in a health context requires a reversal of medical ethics, with unproven benefit of any kind trumps definite, observable harm???

84925 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 12, #339 of 1308 🔗

With a few honourable exceptions, medical professionals have shown themselves to be largely a shower of utter shits, who will not speak out or resist even when harm is occurring.

84949 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 3, #340 of 1308 🔗

That’s untrue. I’ve had a lot of experience ofa wide spectrum over six years – and they’re certainly not ‘shits’.

The Tory Party in and out of parliament, Starmer’s Labour and the (Who?) LibDems etc.are certainly time-serving shits. And Johnson always was a turd on legs.

But the medical profession, whilst certainly not speaking out, have been put under immense pressure and brainwashing by the real excrement.

85378 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 3, #341 of 1308 🔗

That’s what Fascist totalitarianism does. Rots the brain, the mind, the morals.
Doctors and lawyers under Hitler were exactly the same, complaisant up to and including participation in mass murder. Fascism rots the humanity out of most people.
But not us.
Go on resisting. Nazism came to an end. So will this – if we hold on.

85023 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, #342 of 1308 🔗

That’s a VERY good question.

84966 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to anon, #343 of 1308 🔗

I wouldn’t know 😎

Although, training tonight is going to be fierce…….

84981 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Winston Smith, #344 of 1308 🔗

good luck training in this heat!

85003 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to anon, 1, #345 of 1308 🔗


84895 tebw100, replying to tebw100, 19, #346 of 1308 🔗

Had a wonderful experience on a train last night. I got on the train with my face nappy reluctantly attached but noticed two people near me had removed theirs. Encouraged, I took mine off too and we shared a moan about having to muzzle up. I directed them to the government’s own downloadable ‘exempt’ form. Others, hearing the conversation, asked for it too. Within a few minutes no-one in the carriage was wearing their mask; it was glorious. The guard walked through, which caused a nervous intake of breath, but said nothing. If we can get enough people self-declaring exemption, this silly law will collapse.

85104 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to tebw100, 5, #347 of 1308 🔗

Exactly. If everyone turned up at the shops without masks, what could they do about it? Refuse entry to everyone?

People are starting to go shopping in groups apparently. This is a great idea. You may need a few hours though, but in theory you could hang around outside a shop, asking people if they wanted to go in without a mask but were too afraid to do so alone. Wait a while, and collect likeminded people. Go in together. I suppose you may have to do this at small distance from the shop and not in the car park to avoid being accosted by over-zealous security guards, but it could work.

84898 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 29, #348 of 1308 🔗

I want to report that I took my first tentative steps as an exempt person today. Rode the bus to and from my allotment – the driver just nodded when I held up my exemption card. Got a laminated one from eBay with a lanyard just to help keep the idiots away. Did actually see a few people on other buses without face coverings, probably because of the excessive heat down here in Bournemouth.

Frankly, I’ve been afraid to do use an exemption card, despite increasing issues with asthma, especially after reading so many reports from people who have been harassed despite their exemptions. However, I know that more people need to stand up to this if we’re going to turn the tide. So it’s my turn now.

The bus I normally ride is very quiet, so no issues today with other passengers. I have a few days to practice and build up my courage – on Sundays I use two busier buses instead of the one I ride the rest of the week.

84909 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to ConstantBees, 7, #349 of 1308 🔗

I have still places to go without a mask, and always feel apprehensive the first time, but then it does get easier going to somewhere you know won’t challenge you.

84989 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 5, #350 of 1308 🔗

I’m not worried about the drivers challenging me. I’m more concerned about the other passengers harassing me.

Confession time: I also still speak with an American accent (born and raised there), so I’m also concerned about backlash because I’m a foreigner, even though I’m a long term resident and dual citizen.

84993 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #351 of 1308 🔗

just tell em you’re ‘murican! in your strongest accent!

just kidding. you’ll be fine. chin up!

85068 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to ConstantBees, 4, #352 of 1308 🔗

Tell the other passengers you carry a gun and it’s your right to use it as an American citizen.

84941 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to ConstantBees, 10, #353 of 1308 🔗

It gets easier the more you do it.

Well done.

84961 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #354 of 1308 🔗

And more enjoyable…..

84973 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #355 of 1308 🔗


84979 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #356 of 1308 🔗

I have to admit it was the first enjoyable bus ride I’ve had in ages. I didn’t feel like I had to bury my head in my phone to tolerate it. Actually looked out the window and admired the scenery.

84994 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #357 of 1308 🔗

How you doing today Winston?

84953 ▶▶ Will, replying to ConstantBees, 14, #358 of 1308 🔗

Good for you. Although what a disgraceful place this country has become that anyone should be so fearful about not wearing a face mask even when they have a medical exemption.

85197 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #359 of 1308 🔗

Well done and agree with the others it gets easier the more you do it.

I did have an encounter with a Karen last Friday but being assertive does help.

85446 ▶▶ DomW, replying to ConstantBees, #360 of 1308 🔗

Well done!

84920 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 8, #361 of 1308 🔗

The video of the young woman getting arrested in Australia is truly shocking. The police should be ashamed. It’s disgraceful.

85118 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Moomin, 1, #362 of 1308 🔗

It is dangerous to choke or strangle someone. It can cause a stroke as the arteries to the brain are damaged and can form clots which break off and travel to the brain.. You can die days or weeks later.

84921 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 12, #363 of 1308 🔗

Apparently the Welsh Conservatives have started a petition to get the Welsh Government (Labour!) to make face masks mandatory in shops. The Conservatives!!!!! I thought you Tories were against the state telling people what to do?

First Minister Mark Drakeford today, again, said making face masks mandatory at this time was ‘not proportionate or fair’. He said ‘at the moment coronavirus is so effectively suppressed that we don’t think it proportionate, that it is fair, to say to somebody ‘you can’t go into a shop unless you’re wearing one'” He did say it would be reconsidered if the virus started spreading widely again. Wale’s Chief Medical advisor Frank Atherton said little had changed in terms of the scientific evidence and there was little benefit to be had.

84928 ▶▶ RickH, replying to The Spingler, #364 of 1308 🔗

This cuts across the spoof politics that we suffer at the moment.

Oily Starmer isn’t fundamentally criticizing Johnson’s strategy – just tactics.

Both nominal ‘left’ and ‘right’ have been pathetically uninterested in democracy.

84942 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 2, #365 of 1308 🔗

Indeed, and how odd that Drakeford has stood so firm on masks, while at the same time coming up with lots of other nutty stuff.

85067 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Julian, 5, #366 of 1308 🔗

Yes, weird.

Toby published a piece from me many weeks ago where I congratulated my local Tory MP on signing an open letter to Drakeford condemning the continuation of Lockdown and the 5-mile rule at a time when England was opening up. I then swore never to vote Labour again. I stick with that pledge, but now I swear never to vote Tory or Plaid Cymru, who support the Welsh Tories on the mask mandate. Who’s left to vote for?

By the way, Wales is heaving with tourists, and most people are happy shopping here with no masks. It’s only a minority who are wearing them voluntarily. We don’t want the masks, and the tourists don’t want them.

85097 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #367 of 1308 🔗

Good good. I’ll see lovely Wales on Friday!

84952 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to The Spingler, 4, #368 of 1308 🔗

Conservatives have lost the plot. They won’t win the next election.

Hopefully a new political party will arise…….

84964 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Victoria, 2, #369 of 1308 🔗

They may well not win the next election, but I doubt it will be because the sceptic case wins the day. They’ll lose votes from sceptics, and lose votes from people who blame them for the unemployment, or for not locking down enough, but whoever wins won’t be following a sceptic path.

85019 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Julian, 4, #370 of 1308 🔗

Is there ever going to be another election? Or are they cancelled in perpetuity? Due to the emergency.

87117 ▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Julian, #371 of 1308 🔗

The lockdown fanatics mostly didn’t vote Tory.

84972 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 3, #372 of 1308 🔗

If you hadn’t noticed, conservative establishment Candidate B (Starmer) is already manipulated into place ready for any eventuality.

84975 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 4, #373 of 1308 🔗

You cant call Johnston of Starmer conservative.They are both blarite.

85029 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #374 of 1308 🔗

Stripe no longer matters. None of them, *none*, are doing anything to get us out of this shite. Quite the reverse.

85041 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #375 of 1308 🔗

I’ve always been very adamant that voting matters and you should always vote whenever given the opportunity. But now? In a general election there is no current party I would vote for…. not one. So I wouldn’t vote at all, which is a terrible indictment of the political system we have and the people currently representing us.

85085 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to The Spingler, #376 of 1308 🔗

A situation which has obtained throughout large parts of the world for a long time, notably but not solely in communist countries. Luckily here we still have the alternative of getting involved, agitating at local party level, making a nuisance of yourself at candidate selection meetings, spending many frustrating hours arguing with people to change whichever party you feel most aligned to. Not everyone’s cup of tea, but good to see how many here are actively bending their MP’s ear!

85077 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #377 of 1308 🔗

I’m well aware of that.just took exception to the kneeler Starmer as a conservative.

85096 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #378 of 1308 🔗

I take exception to the Conservatives being called conservative.

85424 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nick Rose, #379 of 1308 🔗

So true

84923 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 11, #380 of 1308 🔗

Boris has been quiet on the defunding the BBC issue for several months now. Do you think he might have cut a deal with them: “keep pushing our fear agenda and we will drop all that silly talk of ending the licence fee”?

84931 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Aremen, 7, #381 of 1308 🔗


84932 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Aremen, 5, #382 of 1308 🔗

Yes. The sort of deal done over dinner. Nod, wink, smiles and pleasantries. Nothing on record.

84938 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Aremen, 1, #383 of 1308 🔗

He may or may not deliver Brexit – probably he will. The rest of the agenda is probably out of the the window now. We’ll be in coronabollocks mode for many years.

84962 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, 9, #384 of 1308 🔗

Johnson is finished. He has nothing to offer this country any more.

84976 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, #385 of 1308 🔗

I agree with your second statement. Sadly not the first.

84987 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 2, #386 of 1308 🔗

He will. The Conservative Party is under absolutely NO illusion what will happen if they even think of betraying the Brexit vote again. Farage is already marshalling his troops.

85628 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, #387 of 1308 🔗

I like ‘coronabollocks’ as a general summary term. Onto the offensive – my next set of sticky labels will plaster it all over town.

84960 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Aremen, 1, #388 of 1308 🔗

The only purpose of the license fee rubbish was to put pressure on the BBC and keep them under the thumb. The poor News and Current Affairs output is all about political place-men/women doing the establishment bidding.

85066 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Aremen, #389 of 1308 🔗

Well he’s paying them to do his bidding. So yes.

84948 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #390 of 1308 🔗

“Greece announced further measures intended to curb a recent spike in infections. Visitors from Spain, Belgium, Sweden, the Netherlands and the Czech Republic will have to show proof they have tested negative for the virus before entering the country.It also announced a night curfew on bars and restaurants in major tourist destinations such as Crete, Santorini and Rhodes”
“Elsewhere, Finland said it would introduce mandatory testing and quarantine for travellers from Belgium, the Netherlands and Andorra.”(BBC)

It is getting more complicated and ludicrous by the day. Many countries in Europe have now increasing cases also in the tourist countries. Which will be the first domino to fall and stop and/or false testing, declare themselves free of corona and let in unlimited tourist travel without face nappies and social distancing?  Croatia, Montenegro or Bulgaria? Or perhaps is Italy already cheating us?(They cheated us in the first place by instituting the lockdowns). Italy’s figures look surprisingly low and stable compared to Greece, Croatia, Spain.

84958 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 14, #391 of 1308 🔗

I get the feeling that the Italians have decided they are done with it all and they want to move on, and the “cases” will not be ramped up artificially. Hopefully they are just being sensible to monitoring actual ill people. You’d think other countries would look at them, and Sweden, and be envious, and quietly move on – no need to admit you screwed up, just dial down the fear, do a minimal amount of testing in settings where it makes sense, carry on as normal.

85043 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Julian, 3, #392 of 1308 🔗

Back in February and March when we were getting those gruesome pictures from Italy, some of them now discredited, it struck me that Northern Italy had been particularly badly hit because of the extremely high levels of Nitrogen Dioxide pollution which were over the area in January of this year. The French ski resorts also lie to the west of this region. Similar pollution was found in Madrid, Barcelona and London to some extent. The south of Italy was hardly affected even though many people fled south before lockdown and I believe that during those early months, the death statistics in areas like Rome, Naples and Sicily were lower than normal. Sorry I don’t have any links for this but I remember at the time seeing these areas covered by a huge orange cloud on maps. Looking up the symptoms of Nitrogen Dioxide poisoning, there appears to be a significant overlap with Covid symptoms including the glass opacities in lungs. I know too that scientific papers have been published which recognise correlation ( but not causation) between those areas with the highest deaths and those with the highest amounts of pollution.

85054 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Margaret, 2, #393 of 1308 🔗

Also in the Northern regions of Italy they have a heavy weighting of a more elderly population than in many parts of Europe and the highest rates of smoking, especially in that age group. Yes the air pollution in those parts was recognised as being terrible. The worst in Europe.

85070 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Two-Six, #394 of 1308 🔗

Don’t they have the highest number of antibiotic resistant people too?

85624 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #395 of 1308 🔗

Smoking is said to reduce the likelihood of catching ‘covid’.

85186 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, 3, #396 of 1308 🔗

Northern Italy also has a large number of Chinese migrant workers employed in factories there…it is thought they went home to China at Christmas and then brought the virus back with them..

87120 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Carrie, #397 of 1308 🔗

Correct that is why Lombardy was badly hit.

84978 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 4, #398 of 1308 🔗

Communist China instituted lockdowns. Everybody else just said “Oh that looks like it worked.”

84992 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #399 of 1308 🔗

Everybody? For a long time the assumption was that “they can do that in China because they are a dictatorship but we can’t do that in Europe because we live in democracies.” It looks to me like Macron, the globalist, was key in pushing the Lockdown “cure”.

85091 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 1, #400 of 1308 🔗

Yes he was. Micron, as I call him.

85683 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nick Rose, #401 of 1308 🔗

I call him maquereau, French slang for pimp.
2.  (informal) (= proxénète) pimp

85026 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #402 of 1308 🔗

Lockdown would have made sense if the IFR was 3.4%, as the Chinese government convinced the WHO half wits. The Chinese deliberately exaggerated the lethality of the disease to precipitate panic in the West; who could have believed that everyone outside of Sweden would have, so gleefully, followed the PRC’s bidding.

85012 ▶▶ Will, replying to swedenborg, #403 of 1308 🔗

Maybe Italy are being very sensible and not testing people….

85020 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to swedenborg, 1, #404 of 1308 🔗

Cases? ‘Sure they’re not ‘positive’ tests?

85093 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, #405 of 1308 🔗

Agh fuck looks like I’m going nowhere in September

85627 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, 1, #406 of 1308 🔗

Lithuania is cool, my OH is there at the moment. Can recommend a couple of excellent hotels …

On the other hand, unless you’re a connoisseur of pine forests, it’s quite like nowhere. 🙂

85700 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, #407 of 1308 🔗

Tbh I’m up for visiting anywhere in that enlightened Eastern ‘region’. Dictator or no.

87125 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Farinances, #408 of 1308 🔗

Including Belarus??

85196 ▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to swedenborg, 3, #409 of 1308 🔗

In Italy Goverment offices shut in August. So perhaps the testers, the labs and track and tracer are on holiday enjoying the quattordicesima mensilita’ .
Plus, if the virus knows when you’re eating it can’t get you, maybe the virus also knows when is siesta time!

The fear factor has been on steroids over there. Any kind of skeptiscm disappeared after 4-5 weeks of lockdown (At least in Rome). Television is very often on during meals, often used as a conversation starter.

I wept when I saw people celebrating Liberation day on their balconies: no toughts at all for I patrioti, no thought for the allied troops nor for the Interned (who were conscripted and then betrayed: they were viewed worse than the jews by the Nazi).

I was asked about the vaccine this weekend…I finally managed to plant the seed of skepticism. Drugs take a minimum of 10 yrs to get onto the market because of stringent regulations. How safe is a vaccine going to be if you bypass all those regulations? Is that why the Pharma companies that produce vaccines have been given indemnity for 4 yrs?

The only fellow skeptic from the onset was a Nicola Porro (a skeptic journalist at the best of times),

85261 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Che Strazio, #410 of 1308 🔗

Is that why the Pharma companies that produce vaccines have been given indemnity for 4 yrs?

Their indemnity is forever, not just 4 years

85509 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, #411 of 1308 🔗

I’m sure you are really well aware that vaccine compensation schemes are very variable as between country and country and vaccine and vaccine, how they are funded and so on. The WHO summary of country schemes has helpfully been very recently updated, read all about it here:

84951 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 10, #412 of 1308 🔗

Populist government required to free us from the Mask Madness, the Lockdown Lunacy, the Immigration Insanity, the BBC Baloney, the Health Hysteria and the Conservative Crapulence.

84965 ▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, #413 of 1308 🔗

Johnson’s *is* a populist government – i.e. one that exploits money, prejudices and fears for power.

84985 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 3, #414 of 1308 🔗

That’s not my definition of populist! Populism is about investing in the people, respecting people as individuals and promoting resilience not fear. That said, there are plenty of things it is rational to fear and it is the duty of democratic politicians to make sure the public are aware of dangers on the road ahead.

85027 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to OKUK, 3, #415 of 1308 🔗

“Populist” has been ‘re-purposed’ to mean racist, far right and all the other buzz words. Because they don’t want the people having a say, that would never do.

85058 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, #416 of 1308 🔗

Populist = what the people want that TPTB don’t want. 🙂

Populism in its *actual sense gets it right at least 50% of the time. Probably more, actually. Populism is NOT A DIRTY WORD.

Also, what the opinion polls say is not populism 🙂
It’s……. manufactured consent? I dunno. But it’s not populism. That’s why they usually edit vox pops, because the majority of people don’t say what they want them to :oD

85152 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #417 of 1308 🔗

I’ve reached the point where I’d seriously consider voting for a racist, far right government.

That’s racist and far right by the BBC’s definition, mind, not by the definition of any intellectually honest historian.

84970 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to OKUK, 6, #418 of 1308 🔗

Agree. The Conservatives have lost the plot. Instead of saving the economy they do everything in their power to decimate it.

Labour is not a worthy opposition. They are complicit in decimating the economy and everything that go with that. According to that ‘bloke’ discussing Simon Dolan’s appeal (yesterday’s YouTube link), Labour is not challenging the narrative as they are biding their time to come into power and then use the same ‘legislative vehicles’ used for Covid to force legislation through without input from parliament. Be afraid, be very afraid.

84977 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, #419 of 1308 🔗

Quite, actions have consequences. Drive a tank through the Constitution, and others will pay attention.

84959 Biggles, 15, #420 of 1308 🔗

It looks like divorce lawyers will be winners in all of this if the experiences of two couples I know are anything to go by.

Dave is an avid walker and usually goes out at least once a week with other members of his ramblers club (usually a group of 5-6). They haven’t been out at all since March as ‘it’s just too dangerous’. His wife Karen (irony alert) is just getting on with her life as before so this is creating quite a bit of friction.

Carol works as a receptionist at a hospital so has the attitude that if she is going to get Covid, she will get it at her place of work and not in the community. As a result she is trying to behave just as before in her private life and recently went out with a group of friends. Cue huge row with her husband, who is a paid up member of the bedwetters club, as there were seven of them and they were all from different households. This in a town that currently has 5 cases from a population of over 106,000.

I suppose I should be thankful that Mrs Biggles is a sceptic.

84990 swedenborg, 7, #421 of 1308 🔗

Saint Jacinda now exporting this terrible plague?

Malaysia today reported one C-19 case imported from New Zealand

“Health director-general Datuk Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah said of the new cases, five were imported involving three Malaysians and two foreigners travelling into the country from Japan, India, Pakistan, New Zealand and Singapore.”


84995 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #422 of 1308 🔗

Hi all

Who thinks that this mess is going to drag on and on and then as we reset and build back better and greener it will merge into Zero Carbon and then that’s it.. a fifty year plan or whatever. New normal forever.

84998 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #423 of 1308 🔗

It’ll be years rather than months I fear.

85004 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #424 of 1308 🔗

Not sure they can keep it up. People are already smelling a rat.

85145 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Nick Rose, #425 of 1308 🔗

They can and they will. Far too many people are bought in, and once they are bought in, the psychological drivers to stay bought in, rather than admit they were wrong or had been duped, are powerful indeed.

85008 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #426 of 1308 🔗

I believe it’s the primary reason for this charade.

85013 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #427 of 1308 🔗

yep that’s the plan

85021 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #428 of 1308 🔗

Yep that’s the plan. Agenda 2030

85033 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #429 of 1308 🔗

Yes. This is not going away even if the virus does (if it hasn’t already). Sadly, the general public either don’t care or are too stupid to see this.

85052 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Chicot, 3, #430 of 1308 🔗

They won’t care until what happened to that Australian girl in Melbourne happens to them or a loved one.

85081 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #431 of 1308 🔗

Seems very likely. Governments around the world have been trying for decades to have this much control over the population, and now the people are begging them to do it.

As i keep saying for months now, the only people profiting from this whole situation are the marxist despots in charge of the country. Everything makes perfect sense once you realise that.

85102 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #432 of 1308 🔗

Exactly. If you assume the lockdowns and all the associated nonsense is not actually an attempt at a solution but is the end in itself, then everything makes perfect sense.

85154 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #433 of 1308 🔗

well said. sad times

85002 Paul, replying to Paul, 5, #434 of 1308 🔗

For Two-six and anyone that saw or commented on my post on yesterday’s page about the aircraft circling my town for over two hours this morning.
I sent the operator,2Excel Aviation,a polite email asking what their plane was doing today and I received the response,

We are unable to provide specific details about individual missions’

I can’t say I was surprised by this.After returning to Doncaster airport,presumably to refuel,it is back again,going round and round in circles !.

85007 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Paul, 5, #435 of 1308 🔗

That is interesting indeed….fishier and fishier

85011 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 3, #436 of 1308 🔗

try and get a photo of it with a good zoom lens
or even better at the tarmac at doncaster

85025 ▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Two-Six, #437 of 1308 🔗

You can just look it up on Flight Radar; a picture of the actual plane is included with the details.

85030 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Arkansas, #438 of 1308 🔗

That is a library photo, it wont show if there is anything “funny” going on with it

85039 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Two-Six, 1, #439 of 1308 🔗

Ah, what sort of “funny” thing might there be, were you thinking? Additional cameras, sensors, etc?

85036 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Paul, 1, #440 of 1308 🔗

Here is an article from 2017 about 2Excel running services for UK Coastguard. Our aircraft is G-BEZL so not the Navajo referred to here.


85042 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #441 of 1308 🔗

Hummm I bet these don’t come cheap…
“The two aircraft, a Beech King Air and a Piper Navajo, are equipped with multiple state-of-the-art sensors which enable the aircraft crew to spot a person in the water up to 40 miles away” it says.

85047 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #442 of 1308 🔗

Perhaps they are using image processing and AI to count face-nappies. They are like a little FLAG of compliance aren’t they? Easily spotted from the air. Perhaps the good people of some towns are a little too rebellious and need a lock-down.

85323 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Two-Six, #443 of 1308 🔗

That’s just what I had jokingly said to my wife five minutes ago !.

85521 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Paul, #444 of 1308 🔗

I wasn’t joking. I think they are using CCTV as well in a similar manner. Measuring compliance.
Could it be that the towns they are flying over have really bad CCTV or perhaps no CCTV at all due to council cuts?

Why else would they mandate masks for all if not to get the population to signal their compliance “to a new way of thinking” in such a viable manner?
It’s perfect for new wave image processing to automatically and accurately count face-nappies wearers throughout the day in any given setting.

In fact some shops are BOASTING that they have CCTV systems that can alert security if they spot a bare-faced shopper.

To go one step farther, CCTV image processing is now capable of spotting all kinds of things in crowds, fights, social distancing, aggressive behaviour, littering, smoking, it can ID people according to their gate, make assumptions about a person’s frame of mind, assess a crowd’s mood……

85056 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Paul, 2, #445 of 1308 🔗

I used to fly a bit and that looks like a surveillance pattern to me. Is Grantham a hot spot for Lockdown Sceptics? I seem to recall a King Air flying a search pattern over the Channel a few weeks ago presumably on the lookout for people in small boats. Can’t remember if it was 2Excel.

85059 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Biggles, 1, #446 of 1308 🔗

Apparently they have been using a one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A400M_Atlas to do migrant boat patrol of the Channel recently.

85198 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Biggles, 1, #447 of 1308 🔗

The same aircraft did something similar over Gainsborough, Lincolnshire on 23 July. Long lines rather than a circular pattern, again at 7,000 feet.

85358 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Dave #KBF, #448 of 1308 🔗

they did gainsborough for 2 days last week, 4 flights

85309 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Biggles, #449 of 1308 🔗

It’s more likely about the spread of a brain disease. Didn’t a strange phenomenon named ‘Margaret’ .. or .. something come from there?

85330 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Biggles, #450 of 1308 🔗

I wish it was a hot spot of Lockdown Sceptics !,the few of us there seems to be are very outnumbered !.

85090 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Paul, 1, #451 of 1308 🔗

this is link to the tracker ..
you can see it is going round Grantham again this afternoon. . Last week it spent two days flying in circles over Gainsborough, Seem to be 10km diameter circles around a central point And one day on a trip to 2Excel base at Lasham in Hampshire

85206 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to mjr, 1, #452 of 1308 🔗

So all part of that crazy privatized air sea rescue contract? The military spend endless hours training, so they might as well combine it with rescuing civilians and getting a bit of positive PR, at marginal cost – but no

85355 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to kf99, 1, #453 of 1308 🔗

not sure what flying around Grantham has to do with Air Sea rescue. Which means that 2excel have a contract to do something else …. and that is the mystery…what are they doing??

87132 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to mjr, #454 of 1308 🔗

Interesting what they are looking for.

85015 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #455 of 1308 🔗

Virtue signalling bollocks meets covidiocy.

Have you seen the signs urging you to stay 2m away from your fellow man – or is it your fellow woman? It’s a male graphic (trousers) and a female graphic (skirt) with a double-headed 2m arrow between them. So men and women must stay 2m apart! You couldn’t make it up.

85034 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 1, #456 of 1308 🔗

Getting ready for test tube babies.

85094 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, #457 of 1308 🔗

I’m surprised that they haven’t had to make non-binary social distancing signs yet.

85609 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, 2, #458 of 1308 🔗

If these are the same ones our council has been erecting, Tenchy, there is an enhancement available.

As one nears the end of one’s ciggie, one burns a hole in the male figures genital region. Then leave the butt embedded in the plastic. 🙂

85016 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 2, #459 of 1308 🔗

Gavin Williamson is useless and can’t negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

He knows full well teachers (supported by their unions) do not want to go back to the classroom. He then gave teachers an extraordinary 3% increase and failed to make it conditional upon returning to full-day teaching from September. How incompetent? Does he want to shame them back to work?

Unless teachers return in terms of their contractual obligations they should be on ‘no work, no pay’, then fired. The army (yes I know they are not qualified teachers) can then take over teaching until a proper solution has been found.

85037 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Victoria, #460 of 1308 🔗

The army are not teachers. Surely you should be advocating that their parents should look after them.

85607 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Victoria, #461 of 1308 🔗

The army ?!? Can I have some of what you’re smoking please, Victoria ?

85017 kf99, replying to kf99, 21, #462 of 1308 🔗

That Patrick Fagan article is interesting.
“The public use masks to cover their face, but it may as well be their eyes: we are sleepwalking into a totalitarian nightmare. A section of society has been screaming about fascism since Brexit, but now fascism has actually arrived, and they are cheering it on.”

85063 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to kf99, 6, #463 of 1308 🔗

I said that from the start.Your Owen Jones guardian types have labelled anything conservative or patriotic as fascist for years;now we have the real thing unfolding before our eyes they are supporting it.I knew they were stupid but hadn’t realised how much.

85082 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #464 of 1308 🔗

Your Owen Jones Guardian types ARE the fascists.

85089 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #465 of 1308 🔗

They just don’t realise it.

At least Hitler owned it.

85106 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #466 of 1308 🔗

I would have said communist but I agree there is not much to choose between them.In a communist state the means of production are in the states control.Fascism chooses a mixture of public/private cooperation.The end result is the same for the common man.Repression and control

85304 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, -4, #467 of 1308 🔗

Oh FFS – get a grip (and no – I can’t stand Owen Jones).

British fascism is homegrown in the Tory Party. Fact.

85316 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 4, #468 of 1308 🔗

British Union of Fascists led by Oswald Mosley, Labour MP 1926-31. Fact.

I’ve sort of tolerated your factionalism here, but you are by far the worst example of it. Your hatred of people on the alleged “right wing” of politics is blinding your judgement.

That vile comment you passed last night about those who voted Conservative in 2019 being partly responsible for the mess we’re in was noted. That is like saying, and equally as untrue, that those who voted Labour in 2001 are partly responsible for the 2004 Iraq War.

This is the first and the last time I’m crossing swords with you here. But you are as full of bullshit as the government you profess to despise. Goodbye.

85024 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #469 of 1308 🔗

Grade inflation is up 14%.

SNP full U-turn. Swinney stumbling on his words.

Scottish Highers are now judged on teachers estimates, where they were lowered by algorithm.

The algorithm had increased 9,000 grades from teachers estimates. They stick at the increased mark.

It was a very good year to take your Highers.

85045 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, #470 of 1308 🔗

The longer term implications of this have not been thought through, and that is before we even think how they might spin the largest year-on-year decline in standards next year. Oh, silly me, we engineer a ‘second wave’ so we can continue the teacher-based assessments next year. What’s not to like if you are an underqualified and incompetent teacher who gets to mark your own homework!

85053 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #471 of 1308 🔗

Next year’s declining results will be after the Holyrood elections. That’s convenient!

85073 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kf99, #472 of 1308 🔗

There’s a direct element of favouring 14,-17 year olds by the SNP these people are the key to unlocking independence. Much more likely to be SNP voters the younger a person is.

85247 ▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Basics, #473 of 1308 🔗

Can George Galloway rally the teenagers? Seems like the only hope left.

85060 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #474 of 1308 🔗

Agree entirely. It’s a facade of government. The coverage had an Edinburgh head teacher lined up within seconds to endorse swinney’s words. Complicity by the media. The SQA are to be reviewed according to the head teacher. It reeks in Auld Reekie.

The whole situation engineered in the first place. Deliberate unravelling of the education system under the guise of covid.

85069 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, #475 of 1308 🔗

I can’t wait for Thursday when my younger son will get his A Levels. My friend has just called me – her son is waiting for GCSEs. ‘Inside view’ – get lawyered up!

85079 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #476 of 1308 🔗

Yes this is a dry run for England. Without the cynicism of Holyrood in must be said. I feel the rage against Williamson (?) will be suitably robust. Facts are and always were this was set in motion from the beginning – clear to see. Good luck!

85103 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #477 of 1308 🔗

Thanks. We have just received an email from the school, with all manner of contact numbers for Thursday!

85300 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #478 of 1308 🔗

“Standards” – bollockspeak from the same dictionary as “Covid”

85137 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Basics, #479 of 1308 🔗

Teacher’s estimates are essentially all part of a middle class scam to get kids into better universities. To get into a university you need an offer, once you have an offer, even if you don’t actually get the grades you can usually get in. So, you persuade the teachers to inflate your projected grades. Working class parents with little experience of how university entrance works simply aren’t attuned to this and think the estimate is what the teacher actually thinks, naive! Of course, none of this matters this year, the universities will be so desperate for students in the absence of international students kids will get in anywhere with any grades.

85035 Kate, replying to Kate, 7, #480 of 1308 🔗

BBC doing its job – reassuring interpretation of the current economic catastrophe – you would think they had some shame when you think about the true impact of job losses on citizens

Also another story is headed “Employment falls” not “unemployment rises”
why, because it is less shocking that way.

85040 ▶▶ anon, replying to Kate, 5, #481 of 1308 🔗

newspeak citizen!


85087 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Kate, 2, #482 of 1308 🔗

Hey what do we expect. They called it furlough not the unemployment delayment scheme – which is what it actually is.

Sadly most people believe….words.

85690 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Farinances, #483 of 1308 🔗

Here is a brief history and evolution of the word furlough from Collins Dictionary:

85046 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #484 of 1308 🔗

Hope everyone watched that horrific video. Haver patience. That will be the UK in a little while. Authoritarianism is as authoritarianism does. Who voted for them, i wonder?

85049 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #485 of 1308 🔗

That video really was an absolute horror show. I was shaking with rage for at least two hours.

85055 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 13, #486 of 1308 🔗

Here’s the latest report from the beating heart of the High Peak:

Lovely, hot, walk over the hill, doing our civic duty by cutting back brambles as we toiled up the steep path. You could imagine you were living in the Old Normal as the few people we met were relaxed and seemed happy.

Then, Descent into Zombie Hell: Today we were the only unmuzzled out of about 12 in the Coop apart from an obviously hot and flustered old lady who had pulled her mask down, presumably to breathe. The woman on the till greeted us like old friends and said she’s waiting for her lanyard. She was unmasked anyway as were 2 other members of staff out on the shop floor.

An old lady swerved away from us in the street so we asked her nicely not to. Well, what an eye-opener! It turns out that she’s well on her way to full LS-ism, doesn’t believe a word of it all (she was dangling a muzzle from her fingers, but hey-ho!) so we had a really good chat and all agreed we must keep talking to people as this is the only hope.

Morrisons: Mental. Everyone except a few staff in muzzles apart from about 3 piss-takers i.e. not wearing them ‘properly’, taking them off as soon as they left the checkout. But here’s the thing: to use their loo you have to go through the cafe which was packed. Not a muzzle in sight and I had to pass within about a foot of several people to pass by them. And nobody seems to question how come this virus is such a clever little bugger?

On to the greengrocers and passed a clothes shop with ‘NO MASK NO ENTRY’ on the doors. I used to shop there, occasionally. No more! The owner was in there, unmasked, in a close huddle with 2 muzzled customers. Again, what a clever little virus, eh?

Anyway, in the greengrocers you stand in the door so you’re technically not in the shop. The owner was unmuzzled as was a large woman, stuffing herself with cake on her break – just thought I’d mention that 🙂 We mentioned the nasty notice and she got really arsey, saying that the council (?) had been distributing them to local shops and that they too should be displaying them. The reason – ‘ It’s for our protection: all these people coming in here out of pubs, and I’ve got 2 people at home, shielding’ No, us neither. We tried to reason with her saying that signs should mention exemptions (I was actually wearing my badge) but she stormed off in a huff. The owner, clearly exasperated with her, hates everything that’s going on but thinks Test and Trace is a really good idea. We did a job on him about that, so who knows?

More shocking, though, he has no sympathy with businesses going bust as they ‘deserved it’. He seems to have forgotten the inconvenient fact that, as a food shop, he wasn’t forced to close for nearly 3 months and has actually made a mint doing deliveries plus increased his takings since he’s expanded his shop.

It was so hot we got the bus back. Three women on it, all muzzled. We both wore badges and got a filthy look from a woman we’ve seen before. From her mad eyes, I think she’s lost the plot, which is sad to see.

So, a funny trip with some worrying aspects but, again, conversations with people seem to be key (not the large party with the cake but we’ll keep trying!)

85366 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #487 of 1308 🔗

The greengrocer sounds like an idiot. Ah well, when all of the businesses that ‘deserve’ to go bust eventually do, I’m sure a shiny new Lidl will be quite an attractive prospect for people looking to buy cheaper fruit and veg with their reduced incomes…

Perhaps he’ll think he deserves that?

85064 NickR, replying to NickR, #488 of 1308 🔗

Denmark question. Can anyone help? I wanted to go to Copenhagen for 2 days, then discovered that they’re insisting on a minimum stay of 6 days! I don’t see the rationale for this but then nothing makes sense these days. Can anyone tell me if there’s a way around this?

85083 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to NickR, 4, #489 of 1308 🔗

Go to Sweden 😉

85084 ▶▶ Basics, replying to NickR, 1, #490 of 1308 🔗

I have seen situations of escape in films where a bed is stuffed with pillows. You could arrange something creative along those lines.

85691 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #491 of 1308 🔗

Tie the bed sheets together and climb out the window.

85126 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to NickR, 1, #492 of 1308 🔗

They’ve probably rolled a dice to determine the minimum stay. Can you stay near the border (Malmo?) and cross that lovely bridge to visit?

85088 Victoria, 1, #493 of 1308 🔗

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85099 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #494 of 1308 🔗



“The OSU public health study teams canvassed 471 people in Hermiston last weekend(24th July). Forty-one of them tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. University researchers estimate that 169 of every 1,000 people in Hermiston have the virus, or 3,000 people total.
“Our results indicate the virus is extremely widespread in Hermiston and more prevalent than previous data had indicated,” said Ben Dalziel, an OSU assistant science professor and co-director of the project. “Half of the 30 randomly selected neighborhoods we visited had at least one positive participant. This means that the virus is very widespread within the community, not clustered in only a few locations.”
OSU researchers also took samples from the sewers of Hermiston and Boardman, where they found “consistently strong viral signals in both cities that have remained very high and not decreased over time,” said Tyler Radniecki of the OSU College of Engineering.
Perhaps most disconcerting: The study found 80% of the Hermiston residents who tested positive had no symptoms. That suggests the virus could be spreading among city residents to the most vulnerable people.”

Oregon has had mask mandate since 2 July. There are no reports of hospitalisations or deaths which are low in Oregon. This study was done to see the prevalence in this small town. After this “shocking” results a new stay at home order for the town.

This just shows the utter nonsense you can stop this virus at all

85297 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, #495 of 1308 🔗

The clue is in the phrase “ viral signals”.

… It’s like electromagnetic radiation being interpreted as signals from an alien civilisation.

The assumption that odd bits of amplified RNA indicate a ‘virus’ is pure hypothesis.

We’re into a medical Ponzi scheme with PCR testing.

85696 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RickH, #496 of 1308 🔗

Viral signals are becoming the new body language.

85402 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to swedenborg, 1, #497 of 1308 🔗

Also shows authorities deliberate mis-reading of findings … If 80% no symptoms and no crazy hospitalisations or deaths than the only logical conclusion should be to say : “phew, it’s nothing to worry about,let’s crack on with life” – but instead they take the most illogical path. very very odd.

85530 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark II, 3, #498 of 1308 🔗

That is similar to the findings noted by guy153 and Sophie123 above, from a 5 year Edinburgh flu survey. It showed, for flu, a symptomatic rate of 4%, without any lockdowns, obviously. This study shows 3.38% for CV19, with presumably some lockdown measures in place. So if the virus runs unchecked through your population, it runs out of steam when 4% have had symptoms. Maybe 1.5 to 2% of those die. Great. Might as well not have bothered with lockdown, then.

85107 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 6, #499 of 1308 🔗

Anyone developed the exemption shuffle yet? Unfortunately I haven’t quite got the self-confidence to go un-lanyarded in shops yet and even when I do I find myself adopting a gait faintly suggestive of a recent operation or asthmatic tendencies. Pathetic I know but I haven’t quite got the gumption to go waltzing down the aisles like Louis Spence on celebrity Supermarket Sweep yet.

85113 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Achilles, 6, #500 of 1308 🔗

Nope, I walk in, head held high, striding confidently. And it feels amazing!

85116 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #501 of 1308 🔗

Me too and I out-stare anyone who dares to look at me in a “funny tone of voice”

85127 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Margaret, 5, #502 of 1308 🔗

I find the ‘dead-eyed’, ‘1,000 yard stare’ works a treat.

85129 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #503 of 1308 🔗

Good, isn’t it?

85143 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #504 of 1308 🔗

You can get used to ignoring people with no faces; and it’s hard for them to convey their contempt with just their eyes!

85157 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to zacaway, 2, #505 of 1308 🔗

😄 absolutely!

85262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to zacaway, 3, #506 of 1308 🔗

They can’t bite!

85136 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #507 of 1308 🔗

Walk in like you’re ready to fudge stuff up!!

85166 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Chris John, 6, #508 of 1308 🔗

Yeah I think you’re right. I should walk in there like a gangsta with a beat box on my shoulder and a snow leopard on a gold lead.

85169 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Achilles, 1, #509 of 1308 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 Now, that’s the image I’m talking about!!! 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

85120 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Achilles, 5, #510 of 1308 🔗

Not pathetic at all. In that it’s brilliant that you’re going in unmasked. Do it with a lanyard when you’re good and ready. Might be tomorrow or might be in a few weeks or even months. Might even be never! Your choice!

85133 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Achilles, 5, #511 of 1308 🔗

I know what you mean… I’ve got every reason not to wear a mask… you know what makes me nervous, anxious and reticent?

The threat of some jumped up sh1t asking me to justify myself. I know I can, but I also know that there’s no reason at all why I should, it’s none of their damned business and I just don’t want a confrontation anyway, because I know it’ll taint the whole rest of my day.

85144 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to AidanR, 4, #512 of 1308 🔗

Yesterday 6 ish first time visit to Sainsbury’s since mask day (I’ve been away & am very well stocked up!) Worn their lanyard. No one said a word. Deeply depressing everyone else face covered. But v cheerful hello from shelf stacker who i recognised. She pulled down hers to chat. Checkout person no mask also v chatty. But it felt just fine.

85176 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Keen Cook, 4, #513 of 1308 🔗

Sainsbury’s is one place I’ve never had an issue with not wearing a mask… always a conspiratorial nod from the one other person in the store not wearing one… always a cheery greeting from the checkout staff and the door person.

But there are plenty of other places where I just won’t go because I’m damned sure some nobber is going to make a scene.

85270 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to AidanR, 1, #514 of 1308 🔗

That’s a totally balanced reaction.

Just ignore.

85184 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Achilles, 11, #515 of 1308 🔗

Here in Wales I hadn’t had any problems using taxis or buses since 27th July 2020, that is until today. A bus driver refused to let me on the bus – couldn’t be arsed to show him the exemption download on my phone so got off and waited for the next bus. I did take his photo and a photo of the bus registration. Complaint has gone in – I’ve cited the Equality Act 2010…we shall see. To note this was NOT Cardiff Bus – they’be been fab.

85208 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Kath Andrews, 4, #516 of 1308 🔗

Good work Kath. Interesting to hear Awkward Git’s report from a garden centre. The staff know that they should not under any circumstances challenge anyone without a mask because they know that they could be in deep doo-doo if they do (too many dos?) Your driver obviously hasn’t been house trained properly.

85215 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Margaret, 7, #517 of 1308 🔗

I shall keep you updated as to what the bus company’s response is. I sent my complaint via the company’s online form, I’ve dropped them a message on their twitter. I can’t get hold of them on the phone, so if I don’t get a response in the next couple of days, I’ll go to their offices in Cardiff and hand deliver a letter. I’m not going to let go of this, the driver was vile.

85367 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Kath Andrews, #518 of 1308 🔗

Well done. Give ’em hell.

85278 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Achilles, 1, #519 of 1308 🔗

I’ve not had anything said or even a look. I chat with the till staff and it’s as if it never happened, as if there are no masks in the shop. I know that’s not everybody’s experience, but go for it.

85320 ▶▶ Felice, replying to Achilles, 2, #520 of 1308 🔗

I know exactly what you mean. Before I got my sunflower lanyard, I kept my head down and got round the shop as quickly as possible, on edge all the time in case I was challenged. But I’ve now got the lanyard and been out twice already. What a difference it makes. For a start I feel much less tense. I no longer skulk around like a coward, but shop with confidence. It has made a huge difference to my life.

85400 ▶▶ davews, replying to Achilles, 1, #521 of 1308 🔗

Lanyards do work. Not only no questions asked in Tesco this morning, even a nice smile from a fellow unmasked customer but when I got to the checkout (girl unmasked) I got a very nice ‘good morning, how are you today?’. No comment on the halyard but obviously noticed and gave me the special treatment.

85109 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 10, #522 of 1308 🔗


7 stabbings ,murders,2 bodies found over last weekend
Both Kahn and Cressida Dick need to be sacked pronto as they both think asking the public to shame their fellow citizens for not wearing masks is far more important than tackling violent crime

85269 ▶▶ RickH, replying to tonyspurs, #523 of 1308 🔗

The thing is that both the crimes and the virus are statistically indicative of nothing unusual.

85576 ▶▶ Basics, replying to tonyspurs, #524 of 1308 🔗

Citizens need to be shaming the police

85131 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #527 of 1308 🔗

A very good piece of news! Scott Atlas is great and I’ve been watching his interviews for a while now. If only he had been on the task force from the beginning…

85191 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #528 of 1308 🔗

Yay! Scott Atlas is brilliant. Now if only BoJo would do the same in the UK… Heneghan? Gupta? John Lee? I’m sure I’ve missed some there.

85220 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #529 of 1308 🔗

It’s a potentially huge point in our favour, even though it’s unfortunate that anything Trump does and anyone associated with him will be automatically dismissed by all MSM in the UK, and by a sizeable portion of the population. But having a sceptic at the heart of things in the world’s most powerful country is a step forward.

85306 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Julian, 1, #530 of 1308 🔗

Agreed, this is both good and bad news, Scott Atlas seems like a good scientist as well as sceptic, but being endorsed by Trump is inevitably going to push the politicisation of pro/anti lockdown attitudes even further – as with HCQ – especially in the US.

87142 ▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Julian, #531 of 1308 🔗

And the CNN and NYT across the Pond.

85123 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 24, #532 of 1308 🔗

Those videos from Australia are beyond appalling. Really genuinely distressing.

There are many very valid and very private reasons why people may (a) not be able to wear a mask or (b) not feel able to interact with a person wearing a mask.

Someone who has been robbed, attacked or held by a masked assailant… someone who has been sexually assaulted while having their mouth covered… someone who’s had a stay in an ICU… any type of PTSD at all, however mild or stark… someone with claustrophobia… someone with autism… someone with asthma… that’s just scratching the surface. Even to demand these mask refuseniks explain themselves is potentially grossly unhelpful to their mental health. How is the person asking supposed to know that they’re doing harm? It doesn’t matter. Ask a lawyer about the eggshell skull doctrine.

If I say no mask, it’s no mask, chummy boy.

I hope some of the people being brutalised by these uniformed thugs get some justice and some of these pig pieces of s**t get everything that’s coming to them, in the most longlasting, personally damaging and irreversible way possible.

I’m no fan at all of the UK police, but these videos do make me count my blessings I’m in the UK and not somewhere that the police act like a conqueror’s storm-troopers even in the knowledge they’re being filmed.

85130 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to AidanR, 12, #533 of 1308 🔗

What’s more appalling is the number of people who think this police brutality is perfectly OK in the name of “safety.” Very depressing.

85140 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to AidanR, 5, #534 of 1308 🔗

That eggshell skull doctrine is interesting. It boggles the mind that compulsory masks is not some human rights violation – the government appears to have done no analysis of the potential harmful effects of this (psychological or physiological). I suppose the vague “reasonable excuse” is their get-out-of-jail card – basically makes it your responsibility to figure out if it will harm you or not – while encouraging vigilantes to to put pressure on people to comply (irrespective of any harm that may occur).

85202 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to zacaway, 9, #535 of 1308 🔗

Yes, we are doing their dirty work for them. I don’t believe that the government care whether any of us wear masks or not. They have simply put something in place to show that they are taking action but have made it as simple as possible, short of sending exemption cards through the post, to ignore their edict. It’s a win win situation for them. “Wear masks if you want to but don’t wear them if you don’t want to. Just don’t blame us”

85363 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 2, #536 of 1308 🔗

‘but if the nappied bully and pillory the un-nappied, that’s fine by us, it’s the admirable British people enforcing our voodoo edict.’

85183 ▶▶ annie, replying to AidanR, 2, #537 of 1308 🔗

Sureky this counts as inhumane and degrading treatment under the Human Rights Convention?

85407 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to AidanR, 1, #538 of 1308 🔗

My concern is we’re all on a slippy slope and rather than feel relieved I just feel it’s only a matter of time before those situations are going to be a reality here. Hope I’m wrong.

85124 Coronamoana, replying to Coronamoana, 21, #539 of 1308 🔗

The Telegraph reports that a further 6 people have died in hospital in England. It adds ‘Patients were aged between 46 and 96 years old. All had known underlying health conditions.’ Each time I look, the eldest is in their 90s or 100s. Of course, I recognise that every death is a tragedy for the families, relatives and friends of the deceased; however, surely the death of a 90+ year old cannot be unexpected. I’m not being callous but just feel we need to keep a sense of proportion. My parents died at 62 and 79, both of cancer.

85250 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Coronamoana, 9, #540 of 1308 🔗

Let’s get real. Death isn’t ‘a tragedy’. It’s part of the bargain that is living. It may be sad; may cause an immense sense of loss. But it is inevitable. Get over the fact. Deal with it – and – specifically – don’t condemn everybody else to a truncated life because you can’t deal with a small probability of it happening to you in the near future.

in short : GROW UP. 

85259 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, 7, #541 of 1308 🔗

Bang on.
All will die.
Some will live before they die.
We will.
Zombies won’t.

85267 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to RickH, 2, #542 of 1308 🔗

What I would say is that whilst the death of an old person is sad the death of a young person is a tragedy. That is why years of life lost is a very important measure when weighing up the costs of coronavirus and the costs of lockdown. That’s how we operate in society, with the appropriate balance of risk and care. Of course that’s the kind of analysis that should be undertaken in any lockdown proposal but for some reason no-one bothered and they are still not bothering.

85409 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Coronamoana, 1, #543 of 1308 🔗

Sometimes a death is a relief if a person had very poor quality of life.

85132 swedenborg, 6, #544 of 1308 🔗

“We are risking a 10-20-fold increase in mortality in those aged under 60 from COVID lockdowns compared to COVID itself. This is on top of the devastation caused to our society due to a collapsed economy with poorer health, education, sports and the arts.”


Very sensible analysis from Australia but lone voice. The hysteria is increasing in Australia. Northern Territories will block internal travel until 2022. Many voices in Australia want to imitate Saint Jacinda and immediately institute a lockdown for NSW (There are 6 unknown source C-19 patients in NSW this week)

85135 Gtec, replying to Gtec, 1, #545 of 1308 🔗

For a graphic example of how useless a face mask is have a look at this video about C-19 and face masks from Tony Heller of Real Climate Science – it’s all good, but to see just the example go to 01.18 in of the video, which can be found at:


85233 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Gtec, 1, #546 of 1308 🔗

Ha, that’s a great point! I think all Government ministers should wear condoms over the heads for the best protection (for us, from them).

85257 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to zacaway, 2, #547 of 1308 🔗

And elsewhere, to stop them reproducing their nasty little selves.

85138 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 30, #548 of 1308 🔗

Today I have had to turn down the opportunity of getting together again with a small society. Just after lockdown, a little craft group I belong to was forced to close, just like countless thousands of societies and activity-groups round the country.
Today the organiser contacted me with a view to re-starting the meetings. They were normally held in a small side-room at a nearby fruit/veg and garden centre. However, she said that the shop owners were insisting on the use of masks, even to walk the thirty yards through the centre to reach our old work-room. She also said they might insist on the group wearing masks throughout the two-hour session that we would normally have.
You can easily work out my response to that. It seems likely that the group will die; many of the remaining members are over 70, indeed over 75 and some of them had already stated that they didn’t feel “safe” to attend, even WITH masks.

This mask obsession is sinister. Within the garden centre is a cafe, where people sit unmasked. Yet a little crafting group is made to wear masks simply to walk through and reach a certain room. It is a sad day for me; I am losing touch with folk I’ve known for over twenty years. But I will not compromise.

85182 ▶▶ annie, replying to thedarkhorse, 10, #549 of 1308 🔗

You’re in the right.
Compromise on this and we’re lost.
Your scaredycats are trusting in voodoo.

85236 ▶▶ RickH, replying to thedarkhorse, 5, #550 of 1308 🔗

“This mask obsession is sinister”

Indeed. Indeed. 

85315 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #551 of 1308 🔗

I wonder if you can’t find at least a handful of like minded people with whom to form a new craft group. Until you ask, you’ll never know if there are others of you who feel similarly. I don’t blame you for not compromising — I am in the same boat. I have a friend of 20+ years who has lupus and was crazy with the hand sanitizer before Covid. Her rules for getting together are not OK with me. I bent to her wishes once, but I won’t do it again. She may have more reason than most to be frightened, but her anxiety fuels my anxiety and I just can’t sanitize my hands before petting her dog or wear a mask and not touch anything to use her washroom dedicated to her diseased guests. This Covid craziness is so polarizing, but that’s part of the plan I’m afraid. I hope you can find a little group within your group.

85371 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #552 of 1308 🔗

Can you meet in each other’s houses?
A lot of things on this forum have been described as ‘tragic’, and I think the loss of many hundreds of small social groups such as yours really is tragic.

85664 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to thedarkhorse, #553 of 1308 🔗

I fear this is likely to happen to our group, although we have been meeting in each other’s gardens. I am hopeful that we may move inside into people’s houses come the bad weather. We’re in Scotland and so far Krankie hasn’t allowed our community hall to reopen, but like you, mask-wearing is a deal-breaker.

85141 nat, replying to nat, 4, #554 of 1308 🔗

Meanwhile is Thailand, Covid has killed 58 in a population of 70 million.
Yet kindergarten children are made to wear masks as sit in seperate perplex boxes. In that scorching heat !

comment image

85146 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to nat, 18, #555 of 1308 🔗

That is child abuse.

85150 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to nat, 9, #556 of 1308 🔗

A whole world of totally freekin mental

85211 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to nat, 5, #557 of 1308 🔗

Bonkers and appalling!

85293 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to nat, 1, #558 of 1308 🔗

That cannot be real – it must be staged. Why a mask AND a perspex screen?

85308 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to nat, 3, #559 of 1308 🔗

I guess bars on the cages wouldn’t make for good optics…

85352 ▶▶ Paul, replying to nat, 1, #560 of 1308 🔗

Clown planet

85147 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 33, #561 of 1308 🔗

Earlier this afternoon, I found myself preaching the gospel according to LS to two poor souls that I found wandering about in the wilderness of the local shop. One, a black lady came in maskless and announced to the whole shop that she couldn’t wear her mask any longer as it was too hot for her. The other, a young mum, kept pulling her mask away from her face. I pronounced them both to be exempt because it was a cause of great distress to them and told them to go forth and seek out the government website where they would find treasures beyond price, in the shape of government exemption cards.

85153 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Margaret, 8, #562 of 1308 🔗

You’re doing the Good Lords work.

85163 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Achilles, 5, #563 of 1308 🔗


85180 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #564 of 1308 🔗

Amen, amen.

85212 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 7, #565 of 1308 🔗

Amen. Good work in spreading the Gospel of Lockdown Scepticism with special focus on the Epistle of Muzzle Exemption.

85349 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Margaret, 2, #566 of 1308 🔗

Praise be sister,do not falter in your spreading of the righteous message.

85148 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 15, #567 of 1308 🔗

New Zealand … oh dear. Any intelligent sceptic back in May would have said that the tracing app would never work, quarantine for 2 weeks would be quickly abandoned and the rona would be back in NZ despite Queen Canute- Jacinda s best efforts. I thought late August which is the coldest time of the winter , but I was a little wrong on timing.

The rona this winter in NZ will follow a trajectory akin to Victoria ; do some testing in the Care Homes Jacinda you will find a lot more cases there ! NZ like Victoria has some advantages ie not so many multi generational households and population density is less than Europe . It does however have a problem of obesity, an ageing population and a significant BAME commuinty.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the ” progressive ” media. after all 2 days ago the Guardian and Independent had fawning articles about NZ and the country being rona free for 100 days. I suspect the media will still seek to protect the image of the world’s living saint, Saint Jacinda of NZ.

85221 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #568 of 1308 🔗

There was a time when this sort of fainting at the sight of a mere virus would have been labelled for what it is ; Paranoid Cowardice

85229 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #569 of 1308 🔗

As an addendum – I’ve just caught an item on Bletchley Park.

Can you imagine the sort of ‘scientists’ who back Lock-Up ever being able to sort a real problem as those at Bletchley did?

The contrast in quality is so startling

85240 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #570 of 1308 🔗

Can we stop with the Queen Canute? Canute had common sense.

85243 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #571 of 1308 🔗

Technically she’s Queen Anti-Canute.

85151 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 10, #572 of 1308 🔗

What a load of utter crap, above, in Toby’s section from someone called Julia Stephenson, who writes about Love in the Time of Covid: If you are a Brexiteer you are often on the same page regarding many other issues, including lockdown, so it is a shortcut to finding someone with whom you’re compatible.

Not quite. I am, or was, an ardent Remainer (now a Rejoiner) and I’m also an arch lockdown sceptic. To my mind, the fundamental issue here, and the one that brings more people together, is freedom. Brexiteers were hell-bent on giving up freedom – and I’m talking personal freedoms here – whereas Remainers mourn the loss of it. Lockdown scepticism is all about freedom, as is free speech, and it’s these two key issues that put people on the “same page”.

85155 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Tenchy, 4, #573 of 1308 🔗

I agree… it’s very strange but the lines drawn by covid have been pretty much perpendicular to those drawn by brexit.. the wetbeds and the drybeds each have a fair split of brexiters and remainers.

Sadly that means having seen half of my social circle disappear over the last few years, half of what remains is also out of the window now.

But this is exactly what the state wants… people unable to depend on each other can only depend on the government, however much they know the government just wants to milk them for taxes and then make them go away quietly.

85161 ▶▶▶ Squire Western, replying to AidanR, 2, #574 of 1308 🔗

I disagree. I find the overlap between Leavers and Lockdown Sceptics to be pretty nearly exact.
P.S. Good luck with the ‘repointing’ campaign – you’ll need it 😂

85172 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Squire Western, #575 of 1308 🔗

Interesting that our experiences differ… I don’t doubt your findings, but I assure you mine are equally true to my experience.

No idea what you refer to by “‘repointing’ campaign” I’m afraid…

85193 ▶▶▶▶▶ Squire Western, replying to AidanR, #576 of 1308 🔗

Sorry that was my ‘spell-checker’ and the lack of an ‘edit’ button. I meant ‘rejoining’ (the EU).

85201 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Squire Western, replying to Squire Western, #577 of 1308 🔗

And it was really aimed at ‘Tenchy’.

85188 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Squire Western, 5, #578 of 1308 🔗

That’s pure wishful thinking – confirmation bias. Give it up. It gets in the way of the key issue of the day re. the virus myths.

85217 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Squire Western, 10, #579 of 1308 🔗

I think it is a little more complex than that. There is definitely a strong overlap between a certain type of leaver and sceptics, but it isn’t exclusive. I suspect the type of leaver who loves Europe and hates the EU is likely to be a sceptic – because they value democracy, freedom and culture – the things that are now threatened. To me the EU is a similar threat to this lockdown shite but less urgent. The leavers who hate foreigners, are probably hiding under their beds right now.

Similarly for the remainers who are sceptics, who likely have the similar motivations as this type of leavers, but maybe haven’t attached as much importance to, or doubt the anti-democracy of the EU.
I am a leaver and I chose that for the right reasons, but I do acknowledge that the majority of leavers probably chose it for the wrong reasons.

The key thing is that the people here may be from different side of the Brexit debate, but the commonality is that we probably all thought Brexit through and made our decision, rather than picking a side because a celebrity told them to.

85232 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TheBluePill, 4, #580 of 1308 🔗

I really struggled with leave or remain. It was a very hard decision to make for me. On the one hand the over-reaching totalitarianism of Europe was really starting to make itself present in my life and curtail my freedoms. The drone laws stopping me from flying all my RC models and drones. The insane Tobacco Product Directive impacting on my vaping with its myriad of stupid rules. For those reasons alone I wanted “out” but I could see the benefits of being “in” and the disruption that it would cause with a leave vote. I knew “Europe” wasn’t going to let us go easily and destroy their European Project. Mrs Two-Six voted leave, so we cancelled each other out anyway so it’s irrelevant. Now I think in or out is rather irrelevant as we are now under a global governance structure.

85241 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Two-Six, 6, #581 of 1308 🔗

Yep. You thought about it and weighed things up. That’s what us sceptics have in common, rather than just being leavers or remainers.

85350 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TheBluePill, #582 of 1308 🔗

The EU is an Undemocratic technocratic despotism.sound familiar

85376 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #583 of 1308 🔗

Just as we escape from it we get our own infinitely worse version of it. Heads you lose, tails I win. The EU actually seems pretty paralysed by coronopanic at the moment, maybe they have realised that the are no longer the big boys at this anti-democracy game.

85414 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #584 of 1308 🔗

It was only the branch office of the American empire.We get our orders direct now

85462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -2, #585 of 1308 🔗

Yes. The uk is sooo much more advanced – we import a European family to be our rulers through the ‘royal prerogative’ in parliament = Johnson.

Sooo ‘free’!

85165 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tenchy, 21, #586 of 1308 🔗

The one thing that I’m not too keen on on this site is the seeming assumption that everyone on here is right-wing and pro-Brexit. I am neither. I no longer care about Brexit as I believe what is going on with the removal of people’s freedoms is way more important. I think it would be far better if we could avoid potentially divisive issues like Brexit as we are few enough as it is at the moment without dividing ourselves further.

85189 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Chicot, 10, #587 of 1308 🔗

Same here. Voted remain, previously considered myself moderate left wing. And I agree, Brexit seems like nothing compared with what’s going on now.

85194 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #588 of 1308 🔗

Tend to agree, this is most important issue since WW2 arguably, maybe along with freedom of speech

85205 ▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Julian, 4, #589 of 1308 🔗

Also the same here. The free speech issue isn’t unconnected, either, given the way social media have been removing so-called “misinformation” like the US Frontline Doctors video!

85224 ▶▶▶▶ Seamonster, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #590 of 1308 🔗

For sure. Brexit or not is an irrelevance to torching the economy and civil rights.

85248 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #591 of 1308 🔗


85697 ▶▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #592 of 1308 🔗

Would have been astonished last year if someone had told me that “Brexit” is like nothing compared to what’s coming! But sadly, that’s how it is now. And there’s likely worse to come I fear.

85209 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Chicot, 7, #593 of 1308 🔗

Very much so. Both Brexit and this Virus shite cut across the simplistic left/right dimension of politics.

I am of what is traditionally termed the liberal ‘left’ (a very heterogeneous category) – but I am also a believer in liberty and proper democracy (not majoritarianism).

So, just to blow any simpleton’s ideas out of the water – I despise the sell-out that is The Groan; I despise Starmer and his capitulations; I am not particularly enamoured of the fake BLM capture of the racism agenda; I am at odds with ‘lefty’ Brexiteers and have a pragmatic wish to be fully involved with Europe whilst working to demolish its authoritarianism …. and so on. I am also as ashamed of much of the left’s failure on this current assault on civil rights – as any decent human being who is a Tory will be of the Johnson government.

This issue is too important to be diverted into dead-beat political preconceptions.

85290 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Chicot, 2, #594 of 1308 🔗

Exactly the same here.

85272 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Tenchy, 2, #595 of 1308 🔗

I don’t think you have to be aligned with any political position to be able to spot madness. Just a few functioning brain cells.

85341 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tenchy, -1, #596 of 1308 🔗

Brexit was about freedom.the only freedom the E u gave us was the ability to travel freely in the E U.hows that going?
It’s now irrelevant by the way

85388 ▶▶ davews, replying to Tenchy, 1, #597 of 1308 🔗

A very strong Brexiteer and an equally staunch Lockdown Sceptic. No truth whatsoever in her suggestion.

85596 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, 1, #598 of 1308 🔗

Brexiteers were hell-bent on giving up freedom

I must have missed the eu restoring our right to bear arms. Do you have a link, Tenchy ?

85158 Squire Western, replying to Squire Western, 30, #599 of 1308 🔗

I must say I’m looking forward to watching how Australia and New Zealand try to extricate themselves from the hole they’ve dug themselves into. Every time they relax the lockdown, case numbers will start to rise again. Then they lockdown once more. Just how long this is economically and politically sustainable will be interesting to see.

85394 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Squire Western, 2, #600 of 1308 🔗

Seems every western government have suddenly found the previously mocked magic money tree.

85494 ▶▶ John Church, replying to Squire Western, 1, #601 of 1308 🔗

Indeed. They cannot escape the sunk cost fallacy they have gotten themselves into and it tragic to watch their destruction.

85164 mrjoeaverage, 15, #602 of 1308 🔗

I’m very sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I just read something online that I thought would be good to share.

If you can drag yourself over to Bill Gates’ Twitter feed.

If you then scroll down to 19 December 2019.

He says:

“What’s next for our foundation? I’m particularly excited about what the next year could mean for one of the best buys in global health: vaccines”

The timing of the tweet is perfect.

Anyway, I don’t recall seeing this on here, but sharing just in case.

85181 AMZ, replying to AMZ, 1, #603 of 1308 🔗
85190 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to AMZ, 3, #604 of 1308 🔗

“That’s why the Trust recommends not kissing, wearing a face mask during sex and favouring positions where you’re not face-to-face.”

85210 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Two-Six, 6, #605 of 1308 🔗

Exactly what my wife’s been suggesting for years.

85218 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Achilles, #606 of 1308 🔗


85231 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Achilles, #607 of 1308 🔗

Stop it!

85222 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Two-Six, 1, #608 of 1308 🔗

There was a time when the Terence Higgins Trust had cred

85593 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, #609 of 1308 🔗

There was ?

85225 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Two-Six, #610 of 1308 🔗

I’m hesitant to post this here (due to the gross content) but it is funny:


85447 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, #611 of 1308 🔗

Let’s forget being human. We’re into VIRUS WRESTLING!

(And I thought in my yowth that condoms were a bit of a drag!)

85195 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to AMZ, 6, #612 of 1308 🔗

How romantic, how erotic. Has anyone seen Demolition Man? There is a scene where the stars are having some kind of virtual sex. That’ll be next, no contact, no Love, no virus.

85200 ▶▶▶ Simon, replying to Laura Suckling, 4, #613 of 1308 🔗

Funny, I watched that amongst other 90s dystopian future films several weeks back as I thougt it would amount to good training…

85207 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Simon, 2, #614 of 1308 🔗

It surely is, sadly.

85204 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Laura Suckling, 4, #615 of 1308 🔗

Actually the birth rate for women under 20 has plummeted in recent years, largely a function of youngsters not going and getting drunk and having sex but sitting at home having virtual socialising and presumably sex. I guess this was due to the fear youngsters have of getting raped, assaulted, abducted, terrorised, and now catching the rona. Every little helps in reducing the world population don’t ya know.

85254 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Two-Six, 2, #616 of 1308 🔗

Also the morning after pill, available from GPs when they were open

85199 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to AMZ, 7, #617 of 1308 🔗

Another thing, there is going to be a generation who has a mask fetish. Seriously, that’s how sexual fetishes start.

85203 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to AMZ, 3, #618 of 1308 🔗

I’m sure New York and Georgia have issued the same “information sheet” in past weeks with the same advice in the same wording and phrasing and if you search hard enough more will come to light.

All in lockstep and broadcasting exactly what they are told to.

85214 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Awkward Git, #619 of 1308 🔗

It has been a long time since I read 1984 but wasn’t there an ‘anti sex league’?

85219 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Laura Suckling, #620 of 1308 🔗

That was “Brave New World”, Huxley

85230 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Two-Six, 1, #621 of 1308 🔗

No, certainly 1984. Brave New World advocated casual sex with as many partners as possible.

85239 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #622 of 1308 🔗

yer your right they had test tube babies in incubators in BNW didn’t they.

85242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #623 of 1308 🔗

Yep it’s 1984 – I reread 1984 last year. Well worth another look…so many telling parallels including TVs that can spy on you, the memory hole and of course narrowing of permitted language so as to control thought.

85282 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to OKUK, 5, #624 of 1308 🔗

It has long been called a cliche to refer to something as Orwellian.

Well, when I read 1984 over 40 years ago I had no idea it would be coming true.

The language police – tick, the book burning (well statue toppling and cancellation culture) – tick, snitching – tick, surveillance cameras – tick, mass adoration – tick, anti sex or anti relationship hype – tick, indoctrination of children – tick….and need I go on?

85286 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #625 of 1308 🔗

The ‘book burning’ can be equated with the Youtube cancel culture – it’s the smothering of information that doesn’t toe the party line.

85288 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Mr Dee, #626 of 1308 🔗


85704 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mr Dee, #627 of 1308 🔗

No need for matches or lighters. Do it online.

85338 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #628 of 1308 🔗

You forgot the rewriting of history.It is so prescient when you think of the mask edict.for 4 months we didn’t wear masks then suddenly we have to,and people think they magically protect them,instantly forgetting the last 4 months.
Orwell was a genius.

85374 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #629 of 1308 🔗

Yes, another tick. He certainly was.

The quote “ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever.”

Someone (not me) posted If you want a vision of the future, imagine the wearing of a mask on a human face – forever.”

Was correct.

85705 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Laura Suckling, #630 of 1308 🔗

“imagine a boot stamping on a masked human face – forever.”

85703 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Laura Suckling, #631 of 1308 🔗

Go ahead. Go on. It gets worse.
The only book that I have read that left me terror stricken.

85253 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Laura Suckling, #632 of 1308 🔗

Yes, the Anti-sex League advocated the production of children by artificial insemination. Lots of fun.

85234 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Laura Suckling, 3, #633 of 1308 🔗

Yes- and a two minutes hate now replaced by the BBC news headlines.

85238 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to OKUK, 1, #634 of 1308 🔗

Two minutes hate and 24 hours of fear mongering.

85328 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Laura Suckling, #635 of 1308 🔗

Yes it’s members wore a red sash.Julia was a member

85223 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to AMZ, 4, #636 of 1308 🔗

No, it couldn’t be any more stupid. It’s ultimate stupidity and beyond. And when they refer to faeces as “poo”, you know you’re reading the words of a simpleton.

85227 ▶▶ EssieSW, replying to AMZ, 2, #637 of 1308 🔗

What the actual…tell me people are not taking this seriously?!

I give up.

85255 ▶▶▶ AMZ, replying to EssieSW, 3, #638 of 1308 🔗

Yup. I gave up after seeing that article together will all the madness that is going on at the moment. Pretty down …

85319 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to AMZ, 1, #639 of 1308 🔗

Who on earth would write this crap and expect someone to take it seriously.

85331 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to AMZ, 5, #640 of 1308 🔗

“Masturbation, using sex toys or participating in phone or online sex are recommended as the safest options.”

A bunch of w*nkers. Literally!

85362 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cambridge N, 1, #641 of 1308 🔗

The BBC has fallen a long way…

85445 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cambridge N, 4, #642 of 1308 🔗

There was a time when masturbation made you go blind. Mind you, we didn’t wear masks then

85339 ▶▶ anon, replying to AMZ, 2, #643 of 1308 🔗

for health and safety reasons I am unable to visit the bbc website

is there a name put to that article?

assume comments are verbotten?

85213 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #644 of 1308 🔗

Posted this on another site, about Ferguson’s “model”:

“Have a feeling that the dodgy computer model didn’t even exist until after people started asking to see the code. My suspicion is that the number plucked out of the air was the assumption that 0.9% of the population would die if no interventions were made, reducing to a bad flu year level if interventions were made. Sounds like a classic ‘come up with something to show government policy is working’ scenario.

A bad flu year is a reasonable null hypothesis level, and it appears that this is what happened in many places. For some a less than bad flu year. When we discover how badly the books were cooked with regards to Covid deaths, perhaps it wasn’t even that bad here.”

I put it forward as a theory why the numbers were so far out, but it’s been bugging me all day. Thoughts anybody, or am I straying into tinfoil hat territory? Feel free to be brutally honest. (Not that I expect anything different!)

85216 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #645 of 1308 🔗


85249 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #646 of 1308 🔗

The model contains a lot of code (several thousand lines). Even though it is of low quality I don’t think it was knocked up in a couple of weeks.
But you are right in the sense that the code released was not the code that was used to create the model outputs that were used for the March report. After Ferguson committed to release it proper programmers were brought in to tidy it up. Full details in Sue Denim’s report:

85360 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andy Riley, #647 of 1308 🔗

Something stinks about it, lol. Maybe he started with one or two assumptions…

85256 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #648 of 1308 🔗

Wasn’t the code based on a model for the flu virus itself so not really applicable to this “new virus”

85356 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Margaret, #649 of 1308 🔗

Kind of hoping that he’s used that as his null hypothesis, and that is more or less the actual numbers we’ve got. It’s the ramping up of the do-nothing scenario I’m wondering about.

85260 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #650 of 1308 🔗

I think a lot of the projections were based on the incidence and death rates on the Diamond Princess cruise liner…an absurd approach similar to extrapolating from an outbreak of gastro enteritis on a cruise liner to gastro enteritis figures for the whole of the UK.

85351 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, #651 of 1308 🔗

Except Ferguson’s projections were much worse than the Diamond Princess. In fact, if they had used the D. Princess numbers we might not be in the mess we’re in! lol According to Worldometers, 13 of the 3,711 souls aboard died which equates to 0.35% (1.8% of the 712 *known* infections, which is still lower than the 3.4% ifr rate claimed at one point for the UK!)

I’m not sure where he got his numbers from, which is why I’m wondering about which came first…

85417 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, #652 of 1308 🔗

This was before the Diamond Princess, I think.

85329 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #653 of 1308 🔗

The 0.9% never came out of the model. I don’t think they claimed it did. It was an assumption based on very early evidence from China supposedly.

The rest of the model was a shambles and essentially useless. But yiu can replicate the 500k dead figure from the 0.9% IFR and R0 which I think they assume was about 3 or 4 it something equally ridiculous.

It’s just dead = IFR * (1 – 1/R0) * population size.

85359 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to guy153, #654 of 1308 🔗

This is why I was wondering if the 0.9% is the number he pulled out of the air…

85554 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nick Rose, #655 of 1308 🔗

They pulled hundreds of numbers out of the air. I had a look at the “cleaned up” version of the program they released (cleaned up weirdly by none other than John Carmack for some reason whose other famous program was also called “Doom”) and it has hundreds of parameters trying to model reality in very close detail to predict individual effects like closing schools etc.

The problem with this is error propagation. If you estimate error bars for each of the parameters what are the error bars on the result? You usually do this with some math called the “delta method” but you cannot apply that to a computer model that is all over the place (it needs you to be able to take derivatives and use Taylor series) and they made no attempt to do this obviously and anyway it’s probably impossible.

A basic SIR model only has two parameters. Infection rate and recovery rate. This means you can explore a few combinations and fit them to the data. This is exactly what Gupta did in March to make a very well argued case that starting earlier and being less fatal fit the data just as well as starting late and being more fatal.

But if you have 100 parameters, and even if you just want to experiment with “high” and “low” values for each one that’s literally zillions of combinations (about 10^30). So this makes the model completely useless where actually the much simpler model has a use. It was also coded like crap but it would have been garbage anyway. Basically a fun student project that nobody should have actually funded.

85566 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #656 of 1308 🔗

Can someone explain to me how, if the Ferguson model was based on the flu virus, which from the Edinburgh study 2005- 11 showed that 4% of the population have symptoms when flu runs wild, of whom 1-2% may die, it was ever a possibility that the model suggesting 500K deaths could ever have been anywhere close?

85601 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 1, #657 of 1308 🔗

One of the assumptions (justified at the very beginning) was that because it was a new virus there would be much greater susceptibility. But we’ve recently discovered there is quite a bit of cross immunity.

It was also thought to be about 10x more deadly but I’m not sure that assumption was ever justitified.

Tegnell assumed a 1% clinical attack rate in his paper that appeared very early, based on data from China and possibly Korea, and that seemed to be a safe maximum. In other words that 1% of the population may turn up needing some sort of health care.

85638 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #658 of 1308 🔗

Thanks. I suppose my question was much the same as Nick Rose’s wondering about the ramping up of the do nothing scenario, had not properly understood his.

85364 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #659 of 1308 🔗

They call it modelling but really all it is is an equation and some assumptions on how certain actions affect the parameters (notably R0) within the equation.

as Guy153 provides below: dead = IFR * (1 – 1/R0) * population size

If the assumed R0 is 3 then closing pubs might change R0 to 2.5

That’s it. And they call it modelling.

I call it guess and check with more emphasis on guess and not a lot of check.

85412 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #660 of 1308 🔗

It’s simple GI > (+ Garbage Coding) > GO.

The problem is lack of proper peer review and a proper feed-back loop.

Basically – crap science. It’s pretty simple.

85492 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #661 of 1308 🔗

How is the composition of each year’s flu vaccine decided on? Does modelling play any part? There have been studies showing that flu vaccines actually *increase* the chances of people succumbing to future coronaviruses, so how can they be sure that anyone is actually ‘saved’ by having a flu vaccine?

85715 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Carrie, #662 of 1308 🔗

By WHO. Try this, there’s the report and FAQs in links further down:
Not modelling like the Imperial model, apparently. Don’t know enough about it to know about probability of lives saved by vaccination annually.
Para 13 about the banks of animal viruses maintained in case of need in the event of a pandemic might interest you, though.

85226 Bart Simpson, 9, #663 of 1308 🔗

With all the talk about the Church of the NHS, there was something I observed during my Crystal Palace trip last Saturday.

The good thing about going by bus is that you go past large swathes of South London where you see the areas where the haves and have nots live.

The have nots area looked depressing with run down council states and housing that looked like it had seen better days. High street also depressing with chicken shops, vaping shops and others shut down for good

The haves area – beautiful and well maintained houses with chi-chi high streets populated by gastropubs and independent coffee shops.

The most stark contrast related to this current situation however is the presence of rainbows and “thank you NHS” posters plus BLM ones.

Guess where you can find these NHS and BLM posters.

85228 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #664 of 1308 🔗

As predicted sunset clause in the emergency bill was meaningless. Scottish bill covid extented to March. Just. Like. That.


Buried by exam news?

85595 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Basics, 1, #665 of 1308 🔗

Just another couple of months after that and Nicola will be in a position to postpone the Holyrood elections due to the ‘state of emergency’….

85235 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 1, #666 of 1308 🔗

Read and weep https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53733657 . Compulsory face nappies in a school in that hotbed of Covid

85289 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to arfurmo, 1, #667 of 1308 🔗

I used to work in secondary school teaching maths. I cannot imagine teaching wearing a mask. I don’t believe teenagers will be wearing them all the time. Will they be sent out of classroom if they take a mask off?

85403 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JulieR, 4, #668 of 1308 🔗

Precisely – it’s a total nonsense … and child abuse.

85486 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JulieR, 1, #669 of 1308 🔗

What happens if a child passes out due to wearing a mask? On Simon Dolan’s Twitter account there is a post from a paramedic saying that in the cases of child collapse the paramedics were not to do anything but wait for backup in the form of people effectively wearing hazmat type protection.. So will teachers intervene and/or remove a child’s mask if they faint? Will they be liable if a child collapses or worse due to wearing a mask?

85520 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Carrie, #670 of 1308 🔗

Hazmat protection? Why, for God’s sake?

85418 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to arfurmo, 1, #671 of 1308 🔗

Cacatopian, demonic, and psychotic

85237 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #672 of 1308 🔗
85275 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 6, #673 of 1308 🔗

I’m not claiming any expertise, but this chimes with comments made by Luc Montagnier, formerly of the Pasteur Institute, who won the Nobel prize for his work on discovering the HIV virus. A team of researchers in India – at prestigious institutions – sequenced the viral RNA very early, and pointed to 4 distinct areas with HIV-like sequences, which they concluded could not have happened by random mutations. Their work (discussed on ZeroHedge back in early February) was rounded on and they withdrew their paper. French intelligence reported some form of ‘leak’ from the Wuhan lab in early October last year. CIA appears to have confirmed this. Nobody has suggested it was deliberate but enough independent and genuine scientific experts seem to suggest it was a lab-modified virus, possibly related to a vaccine programme at the Wuhan lab.

85321 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #674 of 1308 🔗

When that Montagnier story came out I did a little investigation and downloaded the genomes of various human coronaviruses and HIV, and wrote a program to compare them.

As expected I found lots in common between the human coronaviruses, especially between SARS1 and SARS2, but nothing in common between SARS2 and HIV longer than 4 codons, which is just noise. In fact HIV has more in common with SARS1. It’s just chance. I don’t think it’s a chimera. It would not be possible to hide the putative HIV insertions as anyone can sequence the virus, and lots of people outside China have.

It may have escaped from a lab of course. That part doesn’t seem particularly unlikely.

85379 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to guy153, #675 of 1308 🔗

I’ve seen an interview with Mullis saying that Montagnier was unable to point him to any paper proving that HIV causes AIDS. Is that possible? It surprised me as someone with only superficial understanding of the topic.

85533 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #676 of 1308 🔗

I don’t know what the controversy is here but have heard that Mullis didn’t think HIV caused AIDS. I imagine there was more uncertainty and some competing theories around the time AIDS was first discovered. But you would think there would have been enough cases by now to have settled the question.

85479 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, #678 of 1308 🔗

From what I remember from the Indian paper, they suggested there were 4 nucleotide sequences, but that it was unlikely that could have happened by chance given their specific locations on the genome. This was what Montagnier was saying, and notwithstanding an ‘investigation’ following an urgent question to the European Parliament, he doesn’t appear to have retracted what he said.


85526 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #679 of 1308 🔗

If you take any two virus genomes and shuffle them up at the codon level, and then compare them, you find a handful of 4 codon sequences in common and no more. This is the null hypothesis. If there were insertions from HIV 10 codons long or so in SARS2 but not in other viruses that would start to be very suspicious. But there aren’t.

4 codons is just 4 amino acids. I don’t know what useful part of the structure of HIV this is supposed to correspond to. I’m not buying it.

85597 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, #680 of 1308 🔗

This is from the paper:

‘The first 3 inserts (insert 1,2 and 3) aligned to short segments of amino acid residues in HIV-1 gp120. The insert 4 aligned to HIV-1 Gag. The insert 1 (6 amino acid residues) and insert 2 (6 amino acid residues) in the spike glycoprotein of 2019-nCoV are 100% identical to the residues mapped to HIV-1 gp120. The insert 3 (12 amino acid residues) in 2019- nCoV maps to HIV-1 gp120 with gaps [see Table 1]. The insert 4 (8 amino acid residues) maps to HIV-1 Gag with gaps’

Not sure if this is correct or not, but several researchers seem to have considered it significant?

85804 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #681 of 1308 🔗

Do you have a link to the paper? I did not find anything longer than 4 amino acids in the two genomes (which is easily explained by chance).

The claim of 12 and 8 is more alarming… but they say there are “gaps”.

85285 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Tenchy, 13, #682 of 1308 🔗

I have always thought that covid was a lab escape, but an accident.

I looked into virology a few years ago and was shocked by what was capable of being done in the way of creating and patenting, not just viruses, but also the methods used to manipulate them. There are huge sums of money to be made in bioengineering and the scientific techniques necessary have advanced massively in the last thirty years.

The mistake was in allowing the patenting of viruses. Once modified they are called “inventions” and the commercial exploitation of this part of the natural world has left us all less safe. Huge sums have been invested in searching for supposed viral threats, viruses that could not mutate into threats naturally. But if you claim that they might, hey presto! you can manipulate them and see if your invention has commercial value, either medically or as a bioweapon.

Most of the funding has come from the military budget.

This can explain all governments’ overreaction to the pandemic. They would have been told this was a lab escape by the security services, and no-one could have been sure what the impact would be. I thought it odd that they claimed right from the outset that covid was new and no-one had any immunity and treated it as an emergency. How would they know that? There are many coronaviruses, you could only be sure no-one had prior exposure if you knew or suspected where it came from.

Also no government can be honest with their population about the true cause. They are all doing this research and are as bad as each other. China is no worse. If we cannot be honest about this we are at risk of future escapes, lockdowns, and denial of our freedoms.



85386 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kate, 3, #683 of 1308 🔗

“They would have been told this was a lab escape by the security services, and no-one could have been sure what the impact would be.

That would provide an explanation for the massive over-reaction.

It also – if true – illustrates the need not to be jerked around by the military and the security services. Both are interest groups.

85311 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tenchy, 5, #684 of 1308 🔗

Dolores Cahill is firmly of the opinion that it was created in a lab. To me, it seems a pretty huge coincidence that Covid-19 should first appear in a city with a lab doing gain-of-function research into Coronaviruses.

85384 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Chicot, 2, #685 of 1308 🔗

Agreed. It either came from the lab or it’s one hell of a coincidence.

85483 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #686 of 1308 🔗

The timing, coming straight after event 201 and followed by a post by Bill G about vaccines being the thing to invest in over the next year, is *highly* indicative that it was all planned – no coincidence. Also that document about 2 worldwide planned pandemic exercises needing to be completed by Sept. 2020…

85245 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #687 of 1308 🔗

Controversy regarding grades in Scottish exams. The major issue is that the grades have been assigned based on…


Which is apparently unacceptable.

85252 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #688 of 1308 🔗

Yes and we know the massive pitfalls using modelling – prof Pantsdown and his ridiculous numbers

85266 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 23, #689 of 1308 🔗

One pernicious aspect of this pandemic response is the taking away of any notion of courage in the face of the virus. In normal times, a person who didn’t worry about flu, and struggled in to work while ill would be regarded as a minor hero. Indeed, as we see in reports about the new rapid test that can distinguish between Covid and flu, this attitude still prevails: if the test shows you ‘just have flu’ you don’t need to self-isolate, apparently.

But the person who laughs in the face of Covid is a pariah; a selfish granny-killer; a right wing lunatic more interested in money and their own pleasure than simply keeping on keeping on – an attitude that used to be celebrated.

85299 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #690 of 1308 🔗

Cowardice is rewarded

85377 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #691 of 1308 🔗

… but nobody’s suggesting ‘laughing in the face’ – there’s a lot of sense in isolating yourself if you are infected . Too many people go to work and spread colds when a day in bed would be more sensible.

It’s a sense of proportion and appropriateness.

85421 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to RickH, 1, #692 of 1308 🔗

You are right. I didn’t express it well. I am thinking of the person who laughs in the face of the virus as being the person who lives with the threat of Covid in the same way they do with flu i.e. it doesn’t change their behaviour. But that flu victims who spread their load around are regarded as heroes, compounding the hypocrisy.

85570 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #693 of 1308 🔗

And, as the Speccie Covid-19 update reported today: In the week ending 31 July, these are the tallies for cause of death (as measured by mentions on death certificates): influenza and pneumonia, 928; Covid-19, 193. What’s more, this isn’t new: more people have been dying of the flu than Covid-19 since the middle of June.

85753 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #694 of 1308 🔗

Never before in our history has abject cowardice been touted and embraced as a virtue.

85273 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #695 of 1308 🔗

This theory actually has some merit although the article does imply there are “multiple layers of proof” despite it being only a theory. The theory of course is nothing more than getting the virus at a low level might be good to build some immunity. The final conclusion therefore has to be…it’s ok to get the virus for immunity:

Masks Worn Amid COVID-19 May Lead To Form Of Immunity

Masking may turn a very scary disease into a milder infection, which then might provide you and the people around you with some kind of immunity.

85279 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #696 of 1308 🔗

The Virus is not dangerous to society. Neither are “infections” or “outbreaks”. Very, very few people have trouble with this virus, and 50% of those who die would have died soon anyway.

85372 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BJJ, 3, #697 of 1308 🔗
  • nor ‘very scary’, ffs.
85305 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #698 of 1308 🔗

More pro-mask-mandate propaganda. Guess who funds her organisation?

Ignore this crap – the epidemic is over!

85344 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #699 of 1308 🔗

It actually backs up the argument that masks won’t stop you getting the virus. It’s merely a sneaky way of trying to find another plausbile justification for wearing them.

“Oh we knew they don’t work but they might do this instead…”

85357 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #700 of 1308 🔗

Masking may turn a very scary disease into a milder infection, which then might provide you and the people around you with some kind of immunity.

I have never heard such a load of nonsense in my life. How utterly rubbish are these scientists or have they been paid off or both?

85444 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #701 of 1308 🔗

Would the author then advocate open carry as an armed populace reduces petty crime?

Or how about restricting abortion to only the medically necessary? 98% are lifestyle choices resulting in over 200,000 deaths.

It is very strange how saving lives is priority for one thing but not another.

Or we could let people be adults and get on with it

85586 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, #702 of 1308 🔗

An armed populace reduces non-petty crime too, mhcp.

(John Lott maybe the best analysis of this stuff, for those who’d “Like to know more”.).

85456 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #703 of 1308 🔗

Thanks for posting this. It’s a retrospective justification of an ad hoc policy, where Covid zealots attempt to leverage lockdown sceptics’ own superior knowledge against them.

The authors don’t, in fact, know whether ‘masking’ gives the appropriate level of inoculum to provide asymptomless development of immunity. In fact, we already have evidence that the virus died out with the vast majority of ‘victims’ experiencing minimal symptoms long before the government’s pathetic, but devastatingly totalitarian, gesture of making everyone cover their faces. We most likely already had ‘community immunity’. With the virus gone, the masks-give-inoculation theory is garbage.

If they want to inoculate everyone with a minimal dose of the virus (‘variolation’) via mask wearing, then they should do the research to show that we don’t have a near-optimal situation without masks. They need to show that evolution hasn’t created the layout of our faces for a reason – it may not even be a case of maximal protection for the individual, but for the family, or the species.

But for Covid, as we probably have herd immunity already it is pointless speculation.

Obviously they can use this ‘theory’ to justify perpetual masking, ready for the next epidemic. They must wonder why nature didn’t give us fibrous flaps over our noses and mouths if it is such a good idea.

85274 DRW, replying to DRW, 43, #704 of 1308 🔗

Good evening sceptics. We may be just like-minded strangers, but in another sense friends. In that sense, I want to tell you about a personal experience throughout all of this.

Last year I began a promising relationship with someone I met in my current job. We got on really well and speaking to them was one of the highlights of my day. We spent a lovely day together in Cardiff just before Christmas. Deeply saddening remembering that was less than a year ago and now not knowing if we’ll ever get to do that again (Although you probably could have something similar in Sweden). I was looking forward to enjoying more time together but I haven’t seen them again since our office closed in March and now really regret not doing more with them earlier.

We have kept in touch since then and they have been a real asset in these insane times. Like me, they became a sceptic but has stayed optimistic and I’m really grateful for that. We both still want to achieve things, travel to places and get experiences. But they’re convinced that maybe next year, they will be possible again and how I should think of each day being one more day closer to that. They reckon that covid’s world tour is now probably waning, that the American vote and final Brexit deadline could be key points (only about four months to go) and that countries will eventually be actively promoting tourism in the next few years to recover their battered economies.

There have been several times I’ve just not wanted to live anymore because of the hell we’re now stuck in. But their influence has been winning that conflict and I’ve kept going. And hopefully we’ll meet in person again quite soon.

I’m still deeply upset at losing at least a year of my still young life over something as stupidly overblown as this, nor can I express my sheer hatred for the protagonists of this misery. But for now, my friend is something still worth holding on for.

85280 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to DRW, 13, #705 of 1308 🔗

Good for you. Friendship is indeed something worth holding on for. They can never take that from you. Be strong, fight back, and never give in. We’re all with you, here.

85281 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to DRW, 13, #706 of 1308 🔗

The precious time wasted for those who should be spreading their wings and experiencing new things is one of the many cruelties of this destructive blind alley our so called leaders dragged us down. The Lost Generation. We must bring this to an end.

85283 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to DRW, 13, #707 of 1308 🔗

Which is precisely why people should continue to work outside homes, in offices and other places.
Most people meet their partners in work, as I did. Cutting them off from that, and keeping them isolated at home is going to be very damaging for society.

I would suggest you two arrange to meet up somewhere. Keep in contact, and meet in person.

85294 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to DRW, 9, #708 of 1308 🔗


Like you, I’m really struggling with this while nightmare scenario. I resent missing out on my life, particularly as I have missed out other years, due to my stroke and my wife’s illness.

I too hate. I’m trying redirect my anger, my energy, into something positive, getting fitter and my training.

It will be alright in the end, and if it isn’t, it’s not the end yet. You have the reserves to see it through and your friend can help.

85327 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Winston Smith, 20, #709 of 1308 🔗

Both young and old are resentful about time stolen from us. My husband retired just over a year ago and we had all kinds of plans to travel and keep enjoying the life we had. We’re mid-50s and these should be our best years. I know of people in their 70s and 80s who are equally, if not more, resentful as they don’t know how many years they have left. And I’m really pissed off for my kids whose lives have also been upended and for whom the world may never be free like it has been for us. I have hopeless days as well, but if we give up than they win. That’s what’s driving me. You will see your friend again! Keep communicating and try to stay strong.

85325 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, 4, #710 of 1308 🔗

And keep holding onto it. We’re living in strange times, but they will pass. They always do. 🤞

85354 ▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #711 of 1308 🔗

Communist rule in Russia lasted longer than the average Russian lifespan.

85415 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ossettian, 3, #712 of 1308 🔗

You’re not cheering me up 🤣

85750 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ossettian, #713 of 1308 🔗

But it ended.

85369 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DRW, 4, #714 of 1308 🔗

That was an inspiring read so thank you.

Over the last few months I’ve seen many people I know in a different light and I’m beginning to have doubts if some of those friendships will survive this. However I believe that some of them will and will emerge stronger and deeper.

Sounds like this friend of yours is one to hold on to – keep up that friendship and keep fighting.

85398 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to DRW, 2, #715 of 1308 🔗

That was a marvelous contribution, thanks DRW!

85450 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to DRW, 7, #716 of 1308 🔗

What a great contribution – comments like these are some of my favourites, I love reading about the human side of things. It’s everlasting values such as human spirit, love and friendship that these bastards will never crush. As long as we always hold those values in our hearts, the people who have caused all this damage can never win.

85573 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Poppy, #717 of 1308 🔗

Thank you all for your responses, it really does mean a lot.

85582 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, #718 of 1308 🔗

You could have spend the year learning about personal pronouns when writing in English …

85751 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #719 of 1308 🔗

Sadly that’s what the yiung have been taught, hideous though it is.

86162 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #720 of 1308 🔗

A chance to read other books, question what they have been taught, and improve their writing skills, all at once ! 🙂

But yes, I realise you are right Annie. If we ‘call it out’ though, there is always hope.

85603 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to DRW, 2, #721 of 1308 🔗

DRW, thank you for sharing your story. My father, like many other young men in their early twenties, was captured during WW2 and spent 3.5 years in hell in the Far East. His family and girlfriend, my mother, did not know for a long time if dead or alive, nor the horror of their circumstances. I promise you, this does not compare. 5 months won’t seem so significant 3 years hence.

85615 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #722 of 1308 🔗

Oddly, I’ve not reflected on this before. But I’ve always known that underweight, ill fed young men in appalling circumstances can still survive multiple bouts of malaria, dengue fever, cholera, dysentery etc and that the young human frame is robust. It probably colours my attitudes.

85749 ▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 1, #723 of 1308 🔗

Your friend is right. This nightmare will end. Like all nightmares, it feels as if it will go on for ever, but it won’t.
Despair is the only enemy that can’t be overcome. That’s why it is identified as the sin against the Holy Ghost, the one for which there is no forgiveness.
Keep your friendship, keep hope, this WILL end.

85277 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 17, #724 of 1308 🔗

Manchester. I thought it was on a mini-lockdown. But my step-daughter’s gone there today with her boyfriend, to go shopping in the Trafford Centre. She’s just told me it’s very busy, and there’s several people not wearing masks. Just feels like a normal city-break for her.

Are the Mancunians simply ignoring the local lockdown? Is the media exaggerating the effect of the lockdown there?

85301 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #725 of 1308 🔗

Hmmm, Manchester. I’ve just watched news footage of the Live Events march today. A silent protest by people working in the live events industry; roadies, cleaners, box office staff, you name it. All protesting because they feel ‘left behind’. And of course, it’s the actions of this government that have put them where they are… So why was every fucking one of them marching in the open air WITH A MUZZLE ON?
We really are doomed.

85322 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #726 of 1308 🔗

Pathetic! It’s hard to have much sympathy with willing zombies. Maybe they thought they’d get more sympathy if they virtue-signalled.

And anyway, what? Left behind in the bale-out stakes? Or left behind? I think that applies to all of us not to mention our children and our grandchildren.

85295 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 11, #727 of 1308 🔗

The GOV.UK site is still peddling nonsense:

‘The most important thing we can do is to stay alert, control the virus, and in doing so, save lives.’


If you go to the bottom of that page, it asks you if the page is useful(!). On replying ‘No!’ the website then asks you if you would like a feedback form.

For all those seething away, filling in that brief feedback form is a lot of fun, somewhat therapeutic…..and a thank you comes back from the cabinet office…….

85298 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #728 of 1308 🔗

That’s you on ‘the list’….

85310 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #729 of 1308 🔗

Don’t tell ’em your name…..oh, hang on….

85312 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #730 of 1308 🔗

And me!

85581 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Tom Blackburn, #731 of 1308 🔗

at this point we’re all on a list

85591 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to anon, 1, #732 of 1308 🔗

A pseudonym would’ve been the smart move

85353 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #733 of 1308 🔗

‘The most important thing we can do is to stay alert, control the virus, and in doing so, save lives.’

The missing message is: Improve your immune system

85373 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 5, #734 of 1308 🔗

And get as much Vitamin D from the big yellow thing in the sky – its free and easy.

85747 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, #735 of 1308 🔗

Ach no, just keep that virus on the lead. Control it. Yeah.

85746 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #736 of 1308 🔗

They got an earful from me.
And I’m proud to be on the list.

85303 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #737 of 1308 🔗

Talk of stronger measures in Oldham…

85326 ▶▶ Will, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #738 of 1308 🔗

Who are these idiots getting themselves tested?

85307 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 31, #739 of 1308 🔗

The video on today’s page showing a woman being arrested in Melbourne is very disturbing. There is a great paradox in the way the police officer behaved. If his brutal handling of the woman was proportionate to the health hazard she posed he wouldn’t have done it – he’d have been too terrified to come within a hundred yards of her.

85468 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #740 of 1308 🔗

The video was shocking. My blood was boiling all afternoon after watching it. He showed total disregard to the woman’s well being that it wouldn’t surprise me if he is exposed as a domestic abuser!

85816 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Ned of the Hills, #741 of 1308 🔗

Yes but he was wearing a mask so the deadly virus couldn’t touch him. The ‘Science’ has confirmed this. Just like it knows when you are sitting down to eat or getting a take away. The virus is both deadly and highly intelligent. Be scared, very scared.

85317 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 23, #742 of 1308 🔗

The video from Melbourne is truly shocking.
Bear in mind that the police response is always a choice on their part. If you have a burglary, they may send someone round a few weeks later. If you report a crime in progress, they may respond or they may not.
In this case, the Melbourne police seem to send a full squad to subdue a girl who is not wearing a mask. I cannot think of a more cow-brained response. It is the calm sadism of the State exerting its prerogative to control the citizens. It is truly disgusting and I never thought I would see that in a developed country.

85324 ▶▶ Will, replying to WhyNow, 4, #743 of 1308 🔗

It is certainly not “cow” brained, most cows would be considerably more intelligent that your average Aussie copper.

85334 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Will, 4, #744 of 1308 🔗

I just can’t put myself in the mindset of the policeman attempting to restrain a girl. He had his hands round her throat. Then he put his arm between her legs and tried to roll her over. Then he sat on her. It was disturbing that a man can do that and think it lawful.

85579 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to WhyNow, 1, #745 of 1308 🔗

Hope they sent his underwear for forensic analysis …

85333 ▶▶ mjr, replying to WhyNow, 2, #746 of 1308 🔗

practising for when they get taken over by China (given that Australia is a major source of raw materials and the chinese dont really give a stuff about what anyone thinks)

85577 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to WhyNow, #747 of 1308 🔗

Aussie High Commission – 0207 379 4334 . Many different avenues of approach are available.

Mind you, a country with a song called “Tie my kangaroo down, sport” …

85332 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 19, #748 of 1308 🔗

This is getting really serious now.
All the little people are going to lose their jobs: the people doing unglamorous jobs, in catering, retail, tradesmen, salesmen, hospitality, construction. All the people that actually provide the tax revenues that fund the teachers, the civil servants, the quangos, the judges, the social workers.
We are going to have a State that has launched itself off into orbit. Free of commercial gravity, all those paid by the State will float on magic money. They no longer work for us. We work for them.

85399 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 4, #749 of 1308 🔗

To think last year we all mocked Corbyn and his magic money tree.Little did we know about the huge forest in the back garden of No.11 Downing St

85475 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #750 of 1308 🔗

Out of interest, what do you think Corbyn would have done in this situation? With Diane Abbott in charge of the finances?!

85514 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 6, #751 of 1308 🔗

She would have borrowed twelvtyonetrillionbillion, Andrew…..

85537 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, #752 of 1308 🔗

best laugh for ages ha!

85619 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, 1, #753 of 1308 🔗

She wouldn’t have been. Don’t even think Corbyn would have appointed her Home Secretary…but who knows? McDonnell would have been Chancellor.

85410 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to WhyNow, 2, #754 of 1308 🔗

Trouble is, without those tax revenues, the teachers, civil servants, quangos, judges, social workers, NHS, armed forces all follow the tax providers into oblivion.

85420 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #755 of 1308 🔗

They really don’t seem to know this. They think that the government can rustle up a few extra hundred £ billion when it wants to.
I think the problem here is that we know we need doctors, nurses, firefighters, the “front line”. But there are an awful lot of “back line” people hiding behind them who think their job is secure. They really don’t care very much if a deliveroo Dad has no pay packet. “He should have joined a Union” is their attitude.

85662 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to WhyNow, 1, #756 of 1308 🔗

I am a public sector worker and as I have been out of work myself I have every sympathy with those out of work. I detest other public sector workers with an I am alright attitude when it comes to other workers losing their jobs. I remember discussing this on this site some time ago about the amount of tax revenue lost due to lockdown. Vast sectors of the economy have been shut for months on end which means lost corporation tax revenue. Furloughed workers have not been paying income tax and this will continue if they loose their jobs.

85335 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 24, #757 of 1308 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8616483/Rise-anti-maskers-protests-against-face-coverings-gathering-pace-Britain.html Extract
“Worryingly for the government trying to promote the wearing of masks, the protest group’s public Facebook page shows it is converting other people to its views and cause.
One mother called Gemma Munro told them: ‘I really want to thank this group for giving me the strength and courage to stop wearing that stupid mask” . Of course the comments are predictable.

85368 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to arfurmo, 6, #758 of 1308 🔗

This is great!

85436 ▶▶ Julian, replying to arfurmo, 2, #759 of 1308 🔗

Let’s all get on there and put some favourable comments in…

85525 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to arfurmo, #760 of 1308 🔗

The comments are censored, predictably. I’ve seen the DM do it before. So much for free speech.

85560 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lms23, #761 of 1308 🔗

Don’t think so. Lots of anti-mask comments with up ticks.

85903 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to annie, #762 of 1308 🔗

That makes a change, then.

85336 tonys, replying to tonys, 12, #763 of 1308 🔗

I keep scouring this site and others like the Speccie every day in the hope of seeing something that points to a route out of this nightmare, but it seems a vain hope at the moment, despite the mounting evidence of the disastrous consequences of the lockdown it seems not to register at all with any arm of government. Has anyone seen anything that gives grounds for optimism?

85393 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to tonys, 14, #764 of 1308 🔗

No I don’t but the one little thing we can be grateful for is Sweden as we have a living and breathing example of another way. Sure the MSM have tried every trick in the book from condemning it to denying it to just ignoring it, but it still sits there, an inconvenient truth that no amount of doublethink can make disappear.

85406 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to tonys, 8, #765 of 1308 🔗

There are more sceptical articles in the press. Maybe only a small ray of sunshine, but it is giving me a little more hope.

85408 ▶▶ Julian, replying to tonys, 5, #766 of 1308 🔗

I see a lot of people out and about who clearly have zero fear and have moved on, but are probably a bit apathetic and go along with govt nonsense rather than protesting. My hope is that boredom, winter, unemployment and seeing other countries doing better than us and getting back to normal will start to push public opinion onto a saner course. Meantime the evil govt and media are working against us.

85454 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Julian, 2, #767 of 1308 🔗

I’ve felt it for a few weeks now, we need to be more co-ordinated, there are so many voices out there and some great sites, but we’re all a bit separated, it would be great if there was one platform from which we could make our point…sorry rambling now

85716 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Kath Andrews, #768 of 1308 🔗

Ramble all you want. Don’t hold back, you might have some ideas that none of us have thought of yet.

85428 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to tonys, 7, #769 of 1308 🔗

Not when I see a Co-Op that has a real, operating traffic light system for regulating entry to the shop. Not when I see an English Heritage customer Land Rover sectioned off with internal screens between each seat. Not when a person in their twenties mumbles incoherently through their mask when jumping out of my way in a street, in the open air. All three today.

85502 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Fiat, 1, #770 of 1308 🔗

if I got the chance with my hayfever i’d sure like a ride in that landrover

85572 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Fiat, #771 of 1308 🔗

You’ve got to laugh.

(Soon it’ll be mandatory …).

85717 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Fiat, 1, #772 of 1308 🔗

Some of the public benches in Montreal have been separated into three sections with metal bar arm rests. You can still sit beside each other, almost elbow to elbow, but you can’t slide over and give your partner a hug anymore. Next they’ll put seat belts on them. There is also a station with instructions on how to wash your hands, etc. At the bottom of the poster it tells us to have a nice day. Pfftt!

85544 ▶▶ annie, replying to tonys, #773 of 1308 🔗

The existence of this site, fir a start.

85571 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to tonys, #774 of 1308 🔗

They don’t have arms. They have tentacles.

85604 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to tonys, 2, #775 of 1308 🔗

Yes… last few weeks I’ve been out and about, across North East Wales, North Wales, Chester … quite a chunk of territory, and the majority of people I’ve seen – must be numbering very many hundreds – are not wearing masks and have given up on social distancing. I do not watch tv or read the papers, but conclude that the reporting is very different from the reality, at least in my part of the world. I think most people regard all these edicts with a healthy dose of indifference, except where there’s a threat to their wallet – a fine for non-masking indoors for example.

85337 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #776 of 1308 🔗

Sky News have gone undercover to spy on people supposedly under lockdown in Manchester catching 8/10 pubs they visited out for not enforcing guidelines. I’m pretty sure they’ll be showing this for days to come.

85347 ▶▶ anon, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #777 of 1308 🔗

erm aren’t they scared of CORONAVIRUS?

you know being a locked down area and all

85472 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to anon, 3, #778 of 1308 🔗

Think the coronavirus act specifically exempts the media from lockdowns? Fairly sure the BBC are exempt anyway..

85498 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Carrie, #779 of 1308 🔗

at this point I can tell you’re not joking

do the bbc get this phony essential worker discount too?

85510 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to anon, 1, #780 of 1308 🔗

Not sure – if I remember rightly it was on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed that I read that the BBC had a specific exemption from lockdown in the legislation.. Note also that they were all managing to get their hair cut when no one else could..
I do believe that some media (BBC anyway) were classed as essential workers, though not all media in general, as some radio presenters did their shows from home..

85370 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #781 of 1308 🔗

SPI-B social shaming sprang into my mind. Complicit media.

85404 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #782 of 1308 🔗

Snitches get stitches.

85340 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 19, #783 of 1308 🔗

I’ve just tried to discuss the Australian police video with my mother. Her response? “Well, if they want to enforce the rules, maybe they need to come down hard on the rule-breakers to make people take it seriously?”

That is coming from someone who herself doesn’t act believe in the necessity of wearing masks in public. How can anyone excuse the behaviour of the police in that video? How can anyone reason with such unflinching stupidity (sorry, Mum)?

85343 ▶▶ anon, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #784 of 1308 🔗


decades of it in the UK

thanks bbc et al

85375 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ben Shirley, #785 of 1308 🔗

Good grief!!!

That said if I mentioned this incident to my family overseas they will say the same thing as your mum. Unfortunately they’ve swallowed the propaganda whole as well.

85345 Gladiatrix, 5, #786 of 1308 🔗

I see Simon Dolan has been allowed an appeal, by the end of September so HMG will be able to argue that as the lockdown is over, there is nothing left to be reviewed. He, and Toby, would be far better off bringing a prosecution for misfeasance in public office and misfeasance of public funds against Boris et al. I can’t believe that such an unevidenced interference with the British people’s way of life has been imposed by a Conservative government.

85346 AllieT, replying to AllieT, 7, #787 of 1308 🔗

So enjoyed hearing about the ‘normality’ & common sense prevailing in the North East today and particularly liked the pic of my birthplace Tynemouth. Have been an adopted Southerner since 1986 & am married to a cockney we live in Berkshire & thankfully Covid nonsense is not OTT here despite the shop muzzling, but am very annoyed by the prospect of wearing a muzzle to church. The Pastor will be getting an email ….

85381 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to AllieT, 4, #788 of 1308 🔗

I was in Newbury yesterday and over the weekend. It’s a sorry sight – numerous closed shops and only about half the number of people you’d normally expect. Unfortunately some of the High Street businesses appear to be committing commercial suicide. There’s a restaurant called Bill’s in the town square. It has loads of seats outside and we were going to eat there. However, the waiter informed us that we’d first have to go inside (wearing a mask) to be temperature checked and provide “our details”. What utter madness is this, when we just wanted to sit outside!! Needless to say we went somewhere else.

Also worth noting, I estimate about 10% of people in the town were wearing a mask outside! It seems it’s only a matter of time before this becomes compulsory. Heaven forbid!

85423 ▶▶▶ AllieT, replying to Tenchy, 1, #789 of 1308 🔗

Haven’t been there in a while. Must admit I’m not a town/city centre girl preferring our smaller local shops. In our road & immediate district no sign of masks apart from pulled on/ripped off at local shops yet not wearing in shopping centre where we are also lucky to have open air markets. Most of our elderly neighbours have carried on dog walking & visiting local shops throughout lockdown yaaay!

85441 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to AllieT, 4, #790 of 1308 🔗

Newbury was a bland boring run-down corporate theme park with lots of empty shop units, probably about 40-50% with a few big empty restaurants and pubs units closed as well even before COVID1984. Now the empty shop units are at about 60% perhaps worse.

After the closure of a number of Vodaphone offices in town in the early 2000’s and then the closure of the Bayer head quarters in town in about 2016 or so the town has really gone down hill for retail. There was a boom in coffee shops and a trendy new cafe/bars opening up which did very well, full with young people with cash to burn and like eating out over drinking in a pub. Quite a new thing in recent years. The pubs have taken a hit too.

There was a fancy new and very very expensive shopping center, almost a new street built a few years ago with a Flagship John Lewis and a Debenhams store. There was some kind of lease/loan aggrement that helped fund it all for the next 100 years or something. It has a load of posh shops in it but a lot are now shut down or soon will be.

Coupled with an out of town shopping centre which is also terrible and expensive parking, charges nobody want to shop in Newbury.

There was certainly an air of decay around town pre-covid and financial depression and hardship.

I would imagine the people you saw out and about are locals just going to tescos and wot not, old scared locals with their face nappies on. Not a wider cross section of the community who presumable just avoid the town centre because it is totally crap. There is no point on going there at all really. I think people avoided it anyway even before COVID1984.

85466 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Two-Six, 1, #791 of 1308 🔗

I remember the town only from my old treehugger days….

85503 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #792 of 1308 🔗

Ahh those were the days, if only Newbury could raise the kind of resistance to authority like we had during the 3rd Battle Of Newbury. It was EPIC.

85508 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Two-Six, #793 of 1308 🔗

Like it!

85598 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Two-Six, #794 of 1308 🔗

Castle wood camp. One of the last to go. Resisted to the last tree…

85626 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mr Dee, #795 of 1308 🔗

Actually remember those tweed wearing young intellectual Oxford guys that “stepped in” and began to run Earth First and how they really took over the protest?

That was a weird thing….

85625 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Two-Six, #796 of 1308 🔗

That’s sad, when I knew it, the weekly covered market before Christmas, the auctioneer would parade along a raised stage with trays of giant Melton Mowbray pork pies, and Stilton cheeses, for auction. And there were racks of game, too. But that was in the 70’s.

85629 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bruno, #797 of 1308 🔗

I think that covered market is a Slug and Lettuce now.

85651 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Tenchy, 4, #798 of 1308 🔗

I’ve just done an Asda survey about wearing masks – a fair few respondents in their comments thought that masks should be worn at all times when outside. It is heartbreaking to read that.

85745 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #799 of 1308 🔗

Babies love their dummies.

85361 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, #800 of 1308 🔗

Does anyone know where I can find a graph of the % positive tests in the UK (i.e. % people testing positive), ideally updated regularly? I can find separate graphs of number of tests performed and number of positive results – both showing slight increases – but nothing with both combined to give the real picture.

85405 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #801 of 1308 🔗

No. I made my own using the testing and cases data from here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

85387 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #802 of 1308 🔗
85392 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #803 of 1308 🔗

On that page is a link to another page:


The first line is scary “The worst of the pandemic is yet to come and the world has reached a defining moment.”

85432 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #804 of 1308 🔗

They must think we’re fucking stupid – I’ve gone through a lot of that WEF shite – it is truly sickening! We must resist this madness!!! I could rant forever, but won’t, it’s been a bad day 🙁

85465 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #805 of 1308 🔗

More like ‘we are going to release another virus imminently, that is more lethal’ – Bill G did say in that interview that people *will* take it seriously *next time*. Anyone who still thinks this is not planned needs their head examined..

85396 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #806 of 1308 🔗

I especially like point 4:

Build genuine connection – distance is the danger
What, like antisocial distancing?

85504 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Tenchy, 1, #807 of 1308 🔗

The muppets behind this are deluxe fuckwits!

85397 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #808 of 1308 🔗

Utopian nonsense as ever.

85419 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #809 of 1308 🔗

Facemasks are an INTEGRAL part of their psy-op.


That video was full of them. They are almost a key part of this change in mindset they want.

They are deeply psychologically disruptive and corrosive to human interaction at a very fundamental level. De-Humanising. They are a must be. Globally. Everything is geared up to promote the wearing of them. It’s just incredible that a tiny group of people could force the whole world into this madness.

85438 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Two-Six, 7, #810 of 1308 🔗

After not being allowed to get on a bus today I do feel a bit worried. No problems at all from 27th July. What worried me about today though was my reaction, my combativeness, I don’t like confrontation but I made my objections to the driver and took his photograph…pre all of this madness I would not have reacted like that 🙁

85453 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Kath Andrews, 4, #811 of 1308 🔗

This is how they break you. I reccomend reading Solzhenitsyn.

85458 ▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to BJJ, 2, #812 of 1308 🔗

Cressida Dick said, the Police cannot enforce the Face Mask rules. We must rely on people shaming each other into clompliance.

85540 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to BJJ, 2, #813 of 1308 🔗

Fetida Dickhead.
Head on a spike on London Bridge.
Wearing a mask.

85684 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to BJJ, 1, #814 of 1308 🔗

“Cressida Dick said, the Police cannot enforce the Face Mask rules.”



85473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to BJJ, 1, #815 of 1308 🔗

I will definitely read his work – thank you.

85562 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #816 of 1308 🔗

Solzhenitsyn was in favour of resistance, physical if necessary. “How we burned in the camps …” is a great summary quotation.

85759 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Kath Andrews, #817 of 1308 🔗

You can get in informed precis at Jordan Peterson on YouTube

85564 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BJJ, 1, #818 of 1308 🔗

WTF ? “This is how they break you”.

May I suggest you don’t give them any more helping hands ?

85758 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BJJ, 1, #819 of 1308 🔗

Youngsters don’t know about Solzhenitsyn, even at the University.

85460 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Kath Andrews, 13, #820 of 1308 🔗

Don’t worry about your response Kath,the people who are pushing others into out of character actions are the ones in the wrong.You have done the right thing in defending your rights,if we don’t push back in any and every way we can this present lunacy will become permanent.I have been pushed to the edge as well and probably as you do,I have a strong sense of right and wrong,what is happening now is wrong,simple as that and I for one will not let it stand.

85471 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Paul, 8, #821 of 1308 🔗

Thank you so much for that. I just can’t comply with this. I’m giving my exemption lanyard to a colleague of mine tomorrow (he really does not cope with confrontation and who can blame him and there’s nothing wrong with wearing one if you feel you need to). There was something about today, I could have shown him the exemption I had on my phone but I just thought ‘no’. Thank you again for your comment.

85719 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #822 of 1308 🔗

Pretend that your deaf. Use some sign language. Make funny noises.

85563 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #823 of 1308 🔗

Normal people do not take well, initially, to confrontation. After a while, if pursued sensibly and calmly, it becomes second nature. 🙂

85390 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 43, #824 of 1308 🔗

My 15-year old daughter thinks she hates my Covid scepticism – “Dad, it’s just a piece of cloth”, etc. As reported yesterday, she was mortified when I was thrown out of an English Heritage shop.

But there’s one gift she doesn’t even realise we have given her: her fear of the virus is zero, nada, zilch. She has friends who have hardly left their houses for five months, but while our daughter feels able to mock us for our seeming obsession with celebrating every bit of normality we encounter, she is sharing with us our full engagement with what remains of normal life. I don’t know whether, one day, she will remember that.

85452 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #825 of 1308 🔗

You are a great parent.

I often wonder what my parents would be like, had I still been younger. I’d like to think I’d still have spotted this for what it is, but it may have taken me longer. Now I’m leading my parents into the light, so it feels like. I’m enjoying it. Wonder what would have happened though had I been 15. So clearly you have done a great job with her.

85489 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Farinances, 7, #826 of 1308 🔗

It’s very kind of you to say so, Farinances. I have recently wondered whether my daughter regards me as the standard-issue, tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist of popular culture. But then I realised that even if she does, she has, despite herself, inherited my complete, utter lack of fear of the virus – or rather my inability to see it as anything other than something we have to live with.

As to whether my own parents would have gone Covid-hysterical I can’t be sure. I think I could have persuaded them otherwise.

Unfortunately, my wife’s mother has drunk the Covid Kool-Aid, and it is leading to some tension in the family.

85505 ▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 35, #827 of 1308 🔗

My 6 year old today:
“Daddy, when will lockdown finish?”
“I don’t know, sorry.”
“If the government says it will last for ever, we should fight the government. I will use a sword”.

Good lad.

85536 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 2, #828 of 1308 🔗

I’ll give him one.

85539 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 2, #829 of 1308 🔗

And my axe….

85548 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to matt, #830 of 1308 🔗

Wow! Brilliant 🙂 There may be hope after all.

85556 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 1, #831 of 1308 🔗

Be kind to the lad – inform him about firearms. 🙂 🙂 🙂

85781 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 1, #832 of 1308 🔗

Your 6 year old gives me hope 🙂

85535 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #833 of 1308 🔗

She will. And she’ll be grateful. And she’ll drive her mates to distraction with ‘As my old dad always says … wise old bird is my dad.’

85557 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #834 of 1308 🔗

Well done Barney. (I look forward to your deconstruction of the “It’s just a piece of cloth” bollox next week … ).

85569 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #835 of 1308 🔗

A marvelous observation. Thanks for sharing!

85411 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 17, #836 of 1308 🔗

Thought I would put a few thoughts together. Thanks for comments given from a question I asked a few days ago.

Policy Changes, digressions and a final question.
1 Abolish the mandatory wearing of masks in shops and all other public indoor areas immediately.
2 Open up schools early – Definitely no masks-normal as possible-this will kick start children’s slowed down immune system and help to achieve herd immunity. To be on the cautious side you could encourage parents to maintain the 2 meter distancing for new friendships made at the school gate for the first 21 days of term but allow children to interact normally. Teachers-just get out there and teach!
3 Encourage good personal hygiene including hand washing. Seems a paradox to the above but is good practice in a general sense.
4 A more nuanced approach in regards to shielding and the vulnerable. Policy and decisions will be based on facts rather than fear. Allow people to evaluate risks and how best to start living a more normal life. Liaise with leisure companies to find how this can be best achieved i.e. Ten Pin Bowling Centres.
5 More emphasis on maintaining a healthy immunity system. The importance of spending time outdoors, vitamin C & D and the importance of social interaction! Heck another paradox!
6 The media should not be the propaganda arm of the government-the onus is on journalists to report the facts through investigative journalism. Covid 19 has been generally reported on through a very narrow lens and alternative narratives have been silenced especially on MSM.
7 In a very broad sense the NHS should evolve and develop not only from the top down approach i.e. implement the latest fad/policy. It should also evolve and develop from best practice that is achieved at community and hospital practice level etc. Best practice say on a surgical ward in York could then be rolled out nationally. This would help develop more robust channels of communication and consistency of practice that results in a more mature relationship between management and practitioner level.
8 The fact that potentially infected patients were discharged into people’s homes i.e. Care Homes plus the stopping of patients ongoing treatment i.e. cancer treatment does highlight a major problem within the health care structure lines of communication and administration. There appears to have been a very top down authoritarian approach taken in the initial ‘fight’ against the novel virus Covid 19. It would seem that alternative voices and approaches were silenced.
9 Cancel all WHO funding and reform SAGE. How experts could stand in front of the nation for our daily update and then at some point almost casually say that they needed to include deaths outside the hospital setting is incredulous! Though clearly a nasty virus struck the nation and especially the most vulnerable, no context was ever given to the majority of other deaths that took place on a daily basis. Very little publicity was given to the side effects of closing down the NHS in such an abrupt way. Very little publicity was given to how deaths were certified in nursing homes and the community.
10 Testing – How much money have we spent testing?? And is it really effective in the control of the spread of the virus? Cases have now replaced hospital admissions and deaths as the criteria for imposing local restrictions. That also has been done in nonchalant way! The use of positive covid 19 tests results in this way enables the Government both national and local to enact unprecedented restrictions on people’s movements and can shut down businesses overnight all under the guise of controlling/defeating the virus. This maintains an element of fear amongst the population at large which is not proportionate to the actual threat posed by the virus. This in turn allows the government to act in an undemocratic manner with policies that suffocate the social fabric of society like an invisible straight jacket, which the government can tighten and loosen as it sees fit. It remains to be seen if there will be a breaking point if this strategy continues long term.
10 This brings me onto the vaccine-If the Government continues its current trajectory the logical conclusion is that it will continue to loosen and tighten the straight jacket until the virus is defeated! However to rely on testing alone means that the virus can never be fully defeated because there will always be false positive test results. Following this scenario the Government could at some point roll out a national vaccination programme to protect the public from a threat that no longer exists i.e. – The virus just got tired and gave up infecting people!
Final point below

85416 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Steeve, 11, #837 of 1308 🔗

11 In the final analysis the question we all need to ask ourselves is “How do we want to be governed?” It is feasibly possible that someone may die earlier because of Covid19 in a more nuanced approach to control the virus. However as long as that decision was made freely, without undue interference and force, surely that is better than the alternative which seems to be allowing government to control more and more aspects of our lives -this approach may also cause people to die earlier than expected from policies that  give the appearance they are for the common good.
At this juncture of our nation perhaps the most important questions are not about our physical health but are concerning “How we want to be governed?”

85434 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Steeve, 8, #838 of 1308 🔗

We need a new set of countries for people who want to be governed minimally. Or a new set for those who want to be controlled. Let’s see who does best. I know where my money is. They’ll be begging us to be let in.

If you took the half a trillion or whatever it is we’ve spent on this bollocks and spent it on, say, eliminating obesity – personal trainers and dieticians for everyone – the number of quality life years gained would be orders of magnitude greater than anything these covid measures have done.

85497 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Julian, #839 of 1308 🔗

Can you imagine if we rounded up fat people and demanded they go running to lose weight?? There would be outrage! But if we tell everyone they can’t work, and so have no wage, that’s OK because it is non-judgemental.
This could only seems reasonable at the BBC (and at PHE (and at the Treasury (and in Parliament (and and and))))

85463 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steeve, 11, #840 of 1308 🔗

Something needs to be done about the number of people in government and positions of influence (CMO, CSA etc) who have direct financial links to Bill G and Big Pharma, because they are clearly not impartial. Also the way friends of the government have been awarded contracts (with no limits on the money given to them) without those contracts going out to tender.
The coronavirus act needs to be repealed with immediate effect, so that we cease being government via statutory instrument..

85476 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, #841 of 1308 🔗

Can’t disagree with that.

85517 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 3, #842 of 1308 🔗

There are also some highly dubious links – husband and wife teams – that raise questions. Dido Harding/John Penrose MP and Kate Bingham/Jesse Norman MP.

85782 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #843 of 1308 🔗

That sort of thing should never be allowed. Funny how this practice, common in third world banana republics has made its way here too.

85757 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 2, #844 of 1308 🔗

And a MASSIVE reduction in the government and public sector. The whole lot have let us down, so perhaps time to take a machete to the over-bloated useless sector. If you’re not frontline (doctor, nurse, porter, teacher, soldier, sailor, airman, policeman, ambulance driver, fireman and the ilk) then you might need to find a new job…

85413 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 23, #845 of 1308 🔗

I think it is time we turned the question. Instead of asking: “what will you do to protect us from a dangerous virus”, we should ask: “where is the evidence this virus is unduly dangerous”?
It is not the number of Covid deaths. Those are a fiction. It is not the number of excess deaths. Those don’t exceed many flu years. It is not good enough the claim it would have been worse without lockdown. You may as well argue it would have been worse without summer.
So what is the evidence that this virus requires the shutdown of normal life? What is it? After all, if it’s that obvious it should be clear to everyone.

85427 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to WhyNow, 10, #846 of 1308 🔗

What is the evidence that the SARS-Cov-2 coronavirus, which has never been isolated, actually exists? Is the great global depopulator, Bill Gates taking us for a ride, so that we will clamour for his highly experimental, hardly tested, free of all liability and likely genocidal vaccines?

85451 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Rowan, 2, #847 of 1308 🔗

One might well ask – clearly this is in some way different to other viruses, in that the lung effects do seem to be unusual – it took time before doctors got a handle on how to treat it.. and people *have* died from it. It seems too much of a stretch (given the way that nearly *all* governments have responded as if to a pre-prepared script) to believe that it is just some random new mutation of the ‘normal’ flu. And especially the timing, coming so soon after event 201.. My suspicion is that it did come from a lab, and was deliberately released, but exactly *what* it is, I do not know..

85474 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, 5, #848 of 1308 🔗

No, Carrie : mainly vulnerable people at the end of their lives have died from it. For the majority of the population, it’s mild.

85507 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 4, #849 of 1308 🔗

I realise that! However if you follow the early reports, governments were initially led to believe/told to report that the lung effects required ventilators. But then doctors worked out that there were other things going on to do with the blood..and that ventilation was often the worse thing you could do for any seriously-ill patient (young or old).
I interpreted Rowan’s post as questioning whether or not there *is* even a new virus at all, and I do think that it is likely a new one or new variation (otherwise doctors not in on the scam would have immediately known how to treat it). Where there has been deception is in how serious it is – which, as you say, it isn’t, unless you are old or have other co-morbidities..

85511 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Carrie, 4, #850 of 1308 🔗

Our understanding of viruses is rudimentary. There is no treatment, no cure, and no effective vaccine.
This is actually true of a lot of medicine. We tend to treat symptoms. We understand very few causes and we have very few cures.

85482 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Carrie, 8, #851 of 1308 🔗

This isn’t really the case. The first evidence we had of a real malignancy was the report of people dying in ICU in Italy. We then had the same from New York. Mortuaries overflowing, etc. Hence all the talk about buying ventilators
But this turns out not to have been true. They were mainly the very elderly, and they were contracting it IN the hospital. Nearly everything we have been told about the virus turns out not to be true. I don’t mean that in a conspiracy sense. Just that the media have intentionally not given us accurate facts. It suits them to have a sense of hysteria.

85552 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to WhyNow, #852 of 1308 🔗

Be interested to hear an explanation of what this sentence actually means …

I don’t mean that in a conspiracy sense.

85756 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, #853 of 1308 🔗

Seems to mean not pre planned, a series of events whipped up by the media.

85748 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to WhyNow, 1, #854 of 1308 🔗

They are just spinning it out so that those state induced hospital and care home deaths seem like ancient history and maybe something unrelated will come along to excite our interest.

85469 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Rowan, 1, #855 of 1308 🔗

Never isolated? I don’t believe that…

85470 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to OKUK, 1, #856 of 1308 🔗

As far as I understand it, it’s true. Not been isolated. Hasn’t met Koch’s postulates

85488 ▶▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to watashi, #857 of 1308 🔗

I am beginning to wonder about that. These names they give to viruses are a bit of a fiction. The name assumed we know enough to isolate a particle of matter with a particular effect. It could just be that we don’t really understand how a virus works.

85501 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to WhyNow, #858 of 1308 🔗

agreed! have you read ‘virus mania’ by Torsten Engelbrecht?

85430 ▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 9, #859 of 1308 🔗

No-one has ever been able to explain it to me. There’s a fixed idea that was planted by early scenes from China and Italy that it’s highly dangerous and there’s no immunity, which fed into Ferguson’s model. That fixed idea is proving hard to shift despite real world evidence that points in a completely different direction. In any case, even had it been as dangerous as Ferguson’s model suggested, the shut down was unjustifiable UNLESS the value you place on human happiness, freedom and economic wellbeing is incredibly low.

85528 ▶▶ annie, replying to WhyNow, 2, #860 of 1308 🔗

Zombies don’t need evidence in order to be terrified.

85422 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #861 of 1308 🔗

Meanwhile in New Zealand , Jacinda has restared the social experiment with predictable results. https://twitter.com/MattManukiaTVNZ/status/1293143807198822400

85425 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #862 of 1308 🔗

Well 3 weeks to flatten the curve is now 5 months here. 3 days in NZ may well turn out a wee bit longer.

85620 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #863 of 1308 🔗


“But an unnamed business with three sites across Auckland with links to the airport is now closed with one worker testing positive and several others falling ill”.
More coming? Sudden interest to test busdrivers at the airport transporting visitors to isolation sites

85429 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #864 of 1308 🔗


“Do facemasks protect against COVID‐19?”
From Australia. Published in June and some top names from Australia. No support for facemasks

“The public might wear masks to avoid infection or to protect others. During the 2009 pandemic of H1N1 influenza (swine flu), encouraging the public to wash their hands reduced the incidence of infection significantly whereas wearing facemasks did not. There is no good evidence that facemasks protect the public against infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID‐19.”
“During the pandemics caused by swine flu and by the coronaviruses which caused SARS and MERS, many people in Asia and elsewhere walked around wearing surgical or homemade cotton masks to protect themselves. One danger of doing this is the illusion of protection. Surgical facemasks are designed to be discarded after single use. As they become moist they become porous and no longer protect. Indeed, experiments have shown that surgical and cotton masks do not trap the SARS‐CoV‐2 (COVID‐19) virus, which can be detected on the outer surface of the masks for up to 7 days.”
“Thus, a pre‐symptomatic or mildly infected person wearing a facemask for hours without changing it and without washing hands every time they touched the mask could paradoxically increase the risk of infecting others.”
“Because the USA is in a desperate situation, their Centre for Disease Control has recommended the public wear homemade cloth masks. This was essentially done in an effort to try and reduce community transmission, especially from people who may not perceive themselves to be symptomatic, rather than to protect the wearer, although the evidence for this is scant. In contrast, the World Health Organization currently recommends against the public routinely wearing facemasks.” (It was published 16th June and WHO changed advice but have they done that in writing or unofficially?)

85532 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to swedenborg, 8, #865 of 1308 🔗

Masks are to show your love and obedience to Big Brother they have no effect on viral transmission

85543 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to 6097 Smith W, 2, #866 of 1308 🔗

Sadly, I’ve come to think mandatory mask wearing is what most people want. If their governments don’t make it compulsory they think they aren’t being safe-guarded enough. So if politicians don’t implement the policy they fear not being elected.

85550 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #867 of 1308 🔗

Just doesn’t cut it.

Johnson has 4 years to an election, and a big majority. Any rationalising of their actions cannot use this as an excuse.

85568 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #868 of 1308 🔗

The Governments could sort it out tomorrow if they wanted to (or they were allowed to by whoever is pulling their strings). All they’d have to tell people is that we have ‘defeated the virus’ and that everyone needs to get lots of fresh air and build up immunity because ‘the science has changed’. I’m sure SPI-B could oblige with some tailored scare-mongering about mask-induced bacterial infections.

Meanwhile, back on Clown Planet. . . . . . Do you really think there will be another election after the Great Reset has made them redundant?

85685 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #869 of 1308 🔗

Even if they let us vote again we will only have a pre selected supporter of the great reset to elect.
The only hope is a new party but how that would gain traction with the power of the established media arrayed against it.
This crisis has revealed the power of the MSM allied with a authoritarian government.

85608 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #870 of 1308 🔗

Don’t agree. Governments could point to masses of evidence that state clearly masks don’t work. (And did back in Spring). They want compliance.

85760 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #871 of 1308 🔗

people don’t want to wear masks.

they have been brainwashed (through a brutal fear campaign) into thinking they do

85433 anabila, #872 of 1308 🔗

(309) 306-0292

85435 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 31, #873 of 1308 🔗

On Sunday a police officer (CID) from Lower Saxony, Germany held a brilliant speech at a demonstration against Corona restrictions and how emergency legislation is contravening German laws in the Grundgesetz. Laws that were made to prevent a 2nd Third Reich.
He was fully aware that it would have consequences, and yes, he has been suspended. The authorities have 3 months to conduct an enquiry. Even the unions condemn that he publicly voiced a critical opinion. It is a brilliant speech, every word considered and fully researched arguments.
The compliance by all authorities in Germany is shocking, but luckily more and more people wake up and start to defend their right to think for themselves and the freedoms which were put into law after 1945.
What is happening in Germany is scary, and we need to stand up in Britain to show bumbleboris we will not participate in this new world and show solidarity with citizens in Australia and Germany

85439 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Silke David, 1, #874 of 1308 🔗

Have you got a link?

85617 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Julian, 1, #875 of 1308 🔗

I haven’t been able to find anything in English on this, but here’s a link to a report on the NDR website:


It confirms that the police officer has been suspended, and that the police union has condemned his actions. He reportedly criticised the ‘blind obedience’ of the police, which he felt was reminiscent of the Third Reich.

The article doesn’t report further on the content of his speech, but it is still on YouTube (for the time being, at least):


85442 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Silke David, 2, #876 of 1308 🔗

Even scarier is the fact that it is happening almost everywhere – including as revealed above in 4-cases New Zealotland.

85496 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, 4, #877 of 1308 🔗

New Zealotland – great name!

85464 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Silke David, 1, #878 of 1308 🔗

where can we read/hear his speech? thank you

85559 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Silke David, 1, #879 of 1308 🔗

That officer deserves a medal rather than a suspension. At least it wasn’t with piano wire (tasteless Nazi reference, which I seem to be doing more and more often these days).

85742 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Edward, 2, #880 of 1308 🔗

Yep, the Third Reich used to be ab interesting, though disturbing, historical study. Now we’re living in it.

85437 IanE, replying to IanE, 8, #881 of 1308 🔗

The lobotomy link was fun! Reminds me of the old joke, ‘Anyone tries to give me a lobotomy, I’m gonna give them a piece of my mind!’

85499 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to IanE, 7, #882 of 1308 🔗

Better a bottle in front of than a frontal lobotomy……

I’ll get my coat….

85455 aposoukh, replying to aposoukh, 2, #883 of 1308 🔗

Dear Editor, I have published a book on Covid response. I am not sure if there is a way to submit for review if possible. https://www.amazon.ca/-/fr/Alex-Posoukh-ebook/dp/B08FGB2W19/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_fr_CA=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=covid+2020&qid=1597095200&sr=8-1

85578 ▶▶ anon, replying to aposoukh, 1, #884 of 1308 🔗
85457 Richard Hoskins, replying to Richard Hoskins, 28, #885 of 1308 🔗

Harassed by a policeman for not wearing a facemask in York station at 8 o’clock this morning. As usual nowadays hardly anyone in the station at this time of day. I asked him what law I was breaking and the idiot told me not to argue. This shows what a pathetic state our country is in when the worst prime minister ever is ordering police to annoy commuters on their way to work

85527 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Richard Hoskins, 5, #886 of 1308 🔗

Bet he wasn’t wearing a muzzle

85741 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to 6097 Smith W, 2, #887 of 1308 🔗

Police are exempt from the Covid, says so in the regs.

85545 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Richard Hoskins, 3, #888 of 1308 🔗

My sympathies…the bus driver who wouldn’t let me on the bus wasn’t wearing a muzzle either (also, no perspex screen). I despair…

85575 ▶▶ anon, replying to Richard Hoskins, 2, #889 of 1308 🔗

if you have fire in your belly

i would continue to ask the question next time

85743 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard Hoskins, 1, #890 of 1308 🔗

Haven’t heard much about Police enforcement but a chap who lives up in the hills told of Police on Mask Friday staking out a remote A road service station, noting maskless drivers going in to pay for fuel then nicking them on the way out. Issued ten fines apparently.

85769 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to Richard Hoskins, 1, #891 of 1308 🔗

You should have insisted he answered your question. You had him by the bollox if he couldn’t reply.

85513 Edward, replying to Edward, 8, #892 of 1308 🔗

Marstons pub visit today (Bridge Inn, Duffield). Had to wait at the door while a customer in front conducted complex negotiations about possibly booking a table possibly for 7 people possibly later in the day. Eventually it was my turn, “please use hand sanitiser”, I pretended to comply. Track & trace notice with various options all involving a smartphone (mine was at home). Shown to a table outside, quite busy but several free tables. I was expecting somebody to come and take my order but eventually it dawned on me that I had to go to a wooden hut or booth and place my order there, to be delivered to the table; cash accepted. My pint of beer finally arrived about 20 minutes after I arrived at the pub – I drank it in about 10 minutes! No masks on any customers or staff. One way arrows but the staff almost have to ignore them as they move around among the tables. I don’t see that their complex system is any “safer” than allowing customers to queue (distanced) at the bar. So, 8 out of 10 for atmosphere, 4/10 for efficiency though the staff are friendly enough and the delays weren’t all their fault. Would I go back? – yes, but I’m not rushing.

85542 ▶▶ Questor, replying to Edward, 6, #893 of 1308 🔗

There seems to be a suicidal trait in many small businesses that ought to know better…a publican that makes buying a drink or ordering a meal awkward has no place in the hospitality industry. Perhaps evolution will create a better class of service post-covid? One can only hope. I have taken to driving an hour over the border to Wales for basic shopping and a meal out….and despite the fact that I am “hideously English” the traders there seem to appreciate my custom. Still the odd place where there are too many “do not enter, beware of the dragon” signs on the door but for once the Welsh Assembly have got the face masks issue right.

85737 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Questor, #894 of 1308 🔗

l had thought that hospitality businesses reopened after complying with instructions from LA Covid Gaulieters.

But they have to ‘self comply’, searching around where they can to see what measures they need to put in place to be Covid Safe should an inspector call (or they get grassed up).
Clearly some establishments will try to get away with as little as possible, others will go completely OTT

Staff at my increasingly relaxed Transport Cafe suddenly started wearing perspex Visors, probably arrived late for Reopen Day but they were soon gone.

85600 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edward, 1, #895 of 1308 🔗

Always been a good pub. Last ate their before Xmas, good food and beer there.

85524 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #896 of 1308 🔗

I’ve though of a way out of all this!

We should urge Mr Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to consult “Uncle Joe’s Handy Guide to Mass Control” – the last chapter:- “The Doctors’ Plot”.

The chapter was unfinished I know but there’s enough in it to provide the essential guide lines needed. Blame it all on these Professors who’ve provided “the science” – they all have Phds – so they are all ‘doctors”. It was all a dastardly plot to ruin our economy – and how well they succeeded! They are all agents of a foreign power – i.e. China. Treason shows trials – abject contritions. They are all incarcerated for 90 years (or worse) and we get on with our lives!

85732 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ned of the Hills, #897 of 1308 🔗

And those few remaing Drs did the right thing in the end, let him lie in a pool of his own piss for hours.
( not that I would wish that on our own Dear Leader).

85534 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #898 of 1308 🔗



Second wave? A great way to look is to have the death curve upside down the case curve. In Spain you clearly see now many cases and few deaths all due to increased testing. The second link for some other countries France Belgium Denmark and Czechia

85551 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to swedenborg, 2, #899 of 1308 🔗

The Spanish deaths data looks a bit odd. The cases have been rising steadily for a few weeks (I was there a fortnight ago, loved it and had a great time), but deaths were pretty static until August 10th, when there were 73, up from 0 the day before, which is quite a leap. Maybe it is about to go exponential again, but the deaths data looks very spikey for Spain, I’d almost go so far as to say the way it is reported is almost worthless.


85588 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Recusant, 3, #900 of 1308 🔗

You will find a registrar of deaths in some back of beyond place in Galicia , e mailed a list that he has had for months and had forgotten to send. I think the fraud of PHE is worse though as the fraud is intentional.

85599 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Recusant, 1, #901 of 1308 🔗

I noticed that also but no clear picture if it was the previous wave or the current cases mainly in Aragon.There are other strange things in Spanish reporting suspected cases in primary care and suspected cases in hospital.Then there is symptomatic and asymptomatic which still seem to be the majority.In short very confusing especially the massive deaths for one day.

85770 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to swedenborg, 1, #902 of 1308 🔗

I was in Aragon, it’s a big place, there was no outbreak near me. I recommend it.

85606 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Recusant, 2, #903 of 1308 🔗

Any big change like that, from 0 to 73, is almost certainly an artefact, most likely due to dodgy reporting.

85646 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #904 of 1308 🔗

Try telling that to ‘the believers’ though!

The whole data gathering and attribution of ‘death by Covid’ is an absolute mess and is going to make any accurate analysis of Covid-19 almost impossible.

If I’d been in charge of this, from the beginning I would have ensured that the data collected was as accurate as possible. No remote death certificates where the patient hadn’t been tested (for antibodies or antigens in the blood, not PCR testing), no sending back of patients to nursing homes, basically signing their death warrants (I still maintain that this has been government mandated MURDER).

But then what do I know? I don’t work for WHO, Imperial College or CDC. I’m only an individual with no ties to big pharma, I’m not in reasearch where my continued funding relies on doing the ‘right’ research and I’m anle to look at data objectively. That desn’t count for anything these days.


85681 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DavidC, 3, #905 of 1308 🔗

That’s because you are looking at things the wrong way.The data collection is skewed because it is meant to give high numbers of deaths due to Covid.This intensifies the fear and enables the government to get in with their true purpose.When that trick loses its potency they move onto cases with a suspect test and inflate those with increased testing;add masks to maintain fear and control,mix in quarantines and local lockdowns.
This is not about a virus,even by their own standards the epidemic is over.

85688 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #906 of 1308 🔗

Oh, I realise that Jonathan! Your comment ‘This is not about a virus’ really hits the nail on the head.


85689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DavidC, 1, #907 of 1308 🔗

People I talk to now cannot work out what the government is doing as there is no logic to it.
Once you realise it’s not about the virus then it make sense.Uk column describe it as a phycological attack on the UK population.

85712 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #908 of 1308 🔗

To soften you up for the Brexit debacle, rationing etc.

85731 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Recusant, #909 of 1308 🔗

There was a plane crash but everyone died with the Covid.

85553 Edward, replying to Edward, 5, #910 of 1308 🔗

As some people have already suggested, the next winter cold & flu season will probably be lumped together with Covid-19 to give an excuse for continuing mass masking and other dubious measures. In the emailings I get from organisations like Glasgow Concert Halls and Birmingham Town Hall/Symphony Hall, they’re now promoting large events from spring 2021 but nothing before then. It looks as if they’ve been given the nod that such events will be allowed by that time but not before. As for football, clubs at the higher and lower levels are publishing their fixture lists but are non-committal about when crowds might be allowed back.

85767 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to Edward, 1, #911 of 1308 🔗

Tbh I wouldn’t hold out much hope for next year either.

85555 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #912 of 1308 🔗

Those bottom-feeders at the World Hell Organisation have been making further pronouncements, this time about dentistry – from The Telegraph live feed:

WHO recommends delaying routine dental work due to virus risk

The World Health Organization has said that routine, non-essential dental work should be delayed until COVID-19 transmission rates drop sufficiently, cautioning against procedures that produce aerosol spray from patients’ mouths.

The WHO said check-ups, dental cleanings and preventive care could be postponed, as it released guidance for dentists on how to minimise the risk of transmission during the coronavirus pandemic.

The United Nations health agency said now that dental services had begun to resume in many countries, several procedures could be done in a way that minimised aerosol, or micro-droplets that hang in the air.

“WHO advises that routine non-essential oral health care – which usually includes oral health check-ups, dental cleanings and preventive care – be delayed until there has been sufficient reduction in COVID-19 transmission rates from community transmission to cluster cases,” the guidance says.

“The same applies to aesthetic dental treatments. However, urgent or emergency oral health care interventions that are vital for preserving a person’s oral functioning, managing severe pain or securing quality of life should be provided.”

The pain and agony many people must have gone through, having been denied dental treatment, doesn’t bear thinking about. They do seem to have relented, according to the last paragraph. That’s bloody good of them, I must say! However, I’m sure the words “urgent or emergency” will be used to ensure we don’t get proper dental treatment for as long as possible.

85605 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 6, #913 of 1308 🔗

So you can’t have a check up? Just have to wait until you notice a rotten tooth, by which time it needs pulling? Medieval.

Surely dentists won’t survive this financially?

85612 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #914 of 1308 🔗

My dentist sent me this:
” We have worked relentlessly to redesign our patient experience to ensure the care and services that we provide you are not compromised. As part of this new experience, we have now installed air purifiers.
To enhance your safety we have invested in a state of the art dental air purifying system. DentAir draws in harmful matter from all corners of the room.”


“Following new guidelines, we have updated your patient journey. Our aim is to continue to keep you safe while delivering exceptional patient care. ”

85621 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Two-Six, 5, #915 of 1308 🔗

“patient experience”, “patient journey”? Bullshitters.

85622 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 3, #916 of 1308 🔗

oh yes corporate new-speak

85623 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, #917 of 1308 🔗

Tenchy drop me a line: two-six@twang.co.uk

85659 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Two-Six, 1, #918 of 1308 🔗

I’d rather the harmful matter stayed safely in the corners of the room, thanks!

85875 ▶▶ davews, replying to Tenchy, 1, #919 of 1308 🔗

I was due a six month check-up and hygienist on the day of lockdown. First postponed to June then cancelled – ‘possibly in December’. Since my last check-up in October the two loose teeth they had been trying to keep with extra hygienist work have fallen out. My teeth do need hygienist cleaning every six months. You can imagine what a state they will be in when I do finally get round to seeing them. All this in an area where the covid rate is well down and the chances of the WHO infections are in effect nil

86039 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to davews, #920 of 1308 🔗

I’m lucky I was able to complete my hygienist treatment before lockdown but am long overdue for a routine check up and cleaning. I was told before lockdown that I am way down the list to be seen and God knows when that will be.

85561 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #921 of 1308 🔗

Silly little Reading uni man on Sky News. Dr Simon Clark. Sounding off about the sour grapes he has towards the Russian vaccine announcement. Angrily dismissing what he called ‘anti vaxxers’ by saying vaccines do work and they are effective. In his next breath he was saying there has never been a corona virus vaccine and it will take years to develop a safe one.

Communication pro vaccine ramping up after the recent 50/50 poll.

With dupicitous little performances by talking heads like him sceptics will win out. The best threat Dr clark had was to end by saying its going to be years of social distancing until a vaccine is found. Years.

Sky news will keep phoning him for his chuckling little manner. He’s no less complicit in the breaking down of civilisation than the rest. I am not on your side Dr Clark.

85640 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, 5, #922 of 1308 🔗

Stupid question I know, but is he aware of the efficacy of existing vaccines. None of them are 100% effective, I think I’m right in saying (from memory) that the flu vaccines have a 60% effective rate.

I’ve had people lambasting me because my degree is ‘only’ a mid tier Univerisity degree and not from Stanford or others, therefore I know nothing. My riposte that I don’t know everything but I know more than nothing has been met with, amongst other things, personal insults, and stating that I’m the unknowing knower in the Dunning Kruger effect.

It’s actually quite funny that while I retain some knowledge of my degree subject but acknowledge that I don’t know everything it is met by people who know nothing but think they know everything! This is classic ‘lemon juice robber’ which started Dunning Ktruger on their work! The lemon juice robber was a thief in the USA in the 90s who was apprehended almost immediately because he was on bank’s CCTV and was flummoxed because he’d smeared his face with lemon juice and therefore thought he was invisible (since lemon juice is used as an invisible ink). The Dunning Kruger effect is where a person who has a little knowledge about something tends to overestimate their knowledge or abilities, whereas people who have a deeper knowledge tend to underestimate what they know because they (wrongly) assume that other people have an awareness closer to their own than actually exists.

85647 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DavidC, 3, #923 of 1308 🔗

As the present shambles has shown – a PhD from (wherever) coupled with enoblement is no guarantee of basic scientific analytical skills.

These skills are not synonymous with technical dabbling in recondite areas, and they are not difficult to acquire – an essential understanding of rationality, logic, the principles of hypothesis testing and the framework of probability and statistics – coupled with an ability to synthesize evidence into a coherent picture.

It is clear that the Mask & Lock-Up brigade never managed the first chapter of the book on these key issues, their grasp of evidence (let alone policy implications) is so lacking.

85667 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to RickH, 3, #924 of 1308 🔗

Agreed. Some of the reasons (there are others) I didn’t pursue academia after degree level was a feeling that getting a grant and funding was likely to be dependent on doing the ‘right’ research rather than doing the right research. That and the feeling of maybe getting to know more and more about less and less. Maybe naive but those were some of the reasons. I worked in microbial pathology after Uni although I didn’t finish my career there.

I still feel that having a degree from a good mid tier University gave me the knowledge and skills to undertsand the majority of information and the skills to find out more if I need to and understand that extra information. I could be wrong but I don’t think I am.

But then the unkowing knowers, who know a little and think they know a lot, don’t think about things the same way.


85574 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #926 of 1308 🔗

From CDC
Per CDC guidelines the epidemic threshold is crossed when a disease causes more than 7.2% of the total weekly deaths. COVID became a CDC defined epidemic in the 1st week of April and stopped being one in Mid -June.

85643 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 3, #927 of 1308 🔗

The CEBM noted while ago that there was now no ‘epidemic’ as officially defined.

Today, they have another illustration of the farce of PHE numbers.

And some gullible buggers are still thinking ‘Masks’!

85730 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to swedenborg, #928 of 1308 🔗

Most people still think Pandemic means the disease will be more severe if they catch when all it means is its occurring in a certain number of countries.
Can a declining Epidemic still be Pandemic?

85580 Che Strazio, replying to Che Strazio, 63, #929 of 1308 🔗

I had a most heartbreaking and enraging experience whilst shopping tonight.
An elderly lady, shopping with her two grandchildren under 11, was wearing a neoprene mask over her mouth but under her nose. She was clearly in distress. Just as I was about to catch up with her, the security alarm went off at the exit. The staff went through her bags twice and stopped short of searching her handbag. I waited for her outside.

It turned out she has COPD and diabetes, survived 2 heart attacks, she is coeliac, she is on 29 medications, her glasses keep steaming up and she is the main carer for her very poorly husband.
She knew she must be exempt but couldn’t find were to order her lanyard (I gave her mine) and she had been bullied in the previous shop into buying 2 masks for £5.

I could barely keep the tears back as I explained the law and I asked my husband to write down on scrap piece of cardboard laworfiction.com as my hands were trembling.

I can’t bare to think how elevated her heart rate must have been whilst her bags were searched, plus the mask.

I don’t know how much of an impact my husband and I made on people whilst being in the middle of an arcade but 12 people were unmasked in the next shop.

By the time I got to Sainsbury’s the tears had turned into anger (my husband called it “THE BASTARDS!”) and I was ready to share my experience with an unmasked young lady who said “That is so sad! It’s amazing how many people don’t understand the law!” (Close to 100% of staff was ignoring antisocial distancing and masks; we were the only 2 without a fac covering amongst customers).

Husband and I decided that we will print a large number of copies of the law, alongside a short brief page of salient points in the law to carry with us. And if needed will start donating lanyards.

Thank you Lockdon Skeptics!

85585 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Che Strazio, 13, #930 of 1308 🔗

Well done for doing a good job. We need to keep spreading the Epistle of Against Muzzle Wearing

85616 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #931 of 1308 🔗

Lets try to get a few main bullet points to go on an anti mask leaflet it needs to be A5 size 5 point MAX the points need to be bullet proof convincing, short and easy to understand

85618 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 7, #932 of 1308 🔗

1: You don’t have to wear a mask, you are exempt.
2: You don’t have to have a doctor’s note or justify to anybody but a police officer or a designated “public health official” why you are not wearing a face mask.
3: Everybody has a reasonable excuse not to wear a face covering, this is:
“To avoid harm or injury, or risk of harm or injury” to yourself or others
4:Face coverings are USELESS at stopping viruses and will make you ill

Its tricky…..

85728 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, #933 of 1308 🔗

Police have to ask Your Permission to access your medical history.

85788 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, 2, #934 of 1308 🔗

That’s a good start – “severe distress” is something we should emphasise too

85787 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, #935 of 1308 🔗

Good idea.

85633 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Che Strazio, 13, #936 of 1308 🔗

I’ve been having some ‘interesting’ exchanges on F***book (I’ll let you fill in the aterisks!) today with some muzzle zealots.

It’s too long to go into the whole farce but it got to the point where I said that my Mother and a friend of hers were out for a coffee last week. Mum is asthmatic (she uses an inhaler) and is exempt from wearing one (going by the rules and regulations). Her friend, wearing a mask, was sweating and having obvious problems breathing. Mum told her to take her mask off.

When I recounted this in the F***book exchanges, saying that they had abided by the government and venue rules and regulations (whatever I may think of them!), the response was, I quote, “Fuck the rules! They shouldn’t be out if they have health problems” This was from someone who had previously written that because a number of his family have additional health risks, everyone else should wear masks. The obvious question of ‘Well, if your family members are so at risk, maybe they shouldn’t be out?’ remains unanswered.

85644 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to DavidC, 7, #937 of 1308 🔗

I have had this said once to my face and once on Facebook. Sadly, this is a prevalent attitude.There is no doubt that non-mask wearers are now being actively discriminated against.

I have just filled in a survey for Asda about wearing masks and have said this. I then looked down at the comments – only the fist couple of dozen, but they were all in favour of wearing masks – even those who said they have asthma and it makes their breathing funny. The majority think they are doing the right thing by protecting other people and it will only be until a vaccine comes along.

On this very small sample of Asda shoppers, their is a mountain to climb.

85648 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 5, #938 of 1308 🔗

The problem with having a rational mind and trying to analyse something as objectively as possible is very difficult when met with a wall of unthinking irrational hysteria. And that’s precisely what we’re up against. There are three levels of psychological interraction – child, parent, adult. Trying to maintain the adult position is very difficult when to other person/people is/are stuck in the child position.

In my F***book interractions today, trying to shift the adult (me) and my ‘opponent’ (child) to and adult-adult position was met with ‘You’re being arrogant and condescending’!

‘There’s none so blind as those who won’t see’.

85948 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to DavidC, 2, #939 of 1308 🔗

You cannot reason with a fanatic, least of all with one who identifies himself as a part of a crowd of fanatics.
It was and is our, the enlightened folk, mistake to try to do that.
Whether on Corona, wokeness, gender issues, climate change, nuclear power, BLM or socialism etc..

85729 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DavidC, 2, #940 of 1308 🔗

The easy exemptions were always about getting us fighting in the aisles to distract us from the disaster that is lockdown.
Don’t think fighting on f***book really counts but well done DavidC.

85738 ▶▶ annie, replying to Che Strazio, 2, #941 of 1308 🔗

‘I knew we stood in Hell.’ (Wilfred Owen)

85583 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 25, #942 of 1308 🔗

Just watching Sky undercover report on pubs in Manchester. I hope the team (Katerina Vittozzi) and Sky are pleased with themselves when the landlords lose their licence, have to pay fines, and many employees lose their livelihoods. Shame on you Sky.

85592 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 21, #943 of 1308 🔗

Yet more disgraceful behaviour from Sky. Zero condemnation of the BLM protesting and rioting at the height of the supposed COVID activity, but instead take the cheap shots at people enjoying themselves at the beach with their families.

This type of reporting shows them to be no different than the Stasi. They were glorifying the Turkish Test and Trace a few days ago, who are just the Turkish Stasi working for Erdogan to no doubt remove those who oppose his.

They are joke journalists, they should be reporting what is happening with our hospitals, killing people.

85610 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to JohnB, 5, #944 of 1308 🔗

Well don’t buy their product. (Not suggesting you have personally.) I never have and have just dumped the BBC

85727 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella, 1, #945 of 1308 🔗

Wish I could remember the exact date many years ago when decided not to renew my telly licence.
Each year I could be feeling a warm feeling of satisfaction for yet again defunding them.

85678 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #946 of 1308 🔗

Yes Eff Off Sky Lies…what effing hypocrisy after we’ve seen their staff break social distancing live in TV countless times!

85946 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #947 of 1308 🔗

At least Sky will also lose them as subscribers.

85584 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 7, #948 of 1308 🔗

I drove past a testing station in my home town of Darlington on two occasions today and was very pleased to see there was no one there. Might get away without a lockdown yet as I’m sure they will be lining up somewhere in the north east at some point.

85637 ▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Biggles, 4, #949 of 1308 🔗

I’m un-scientifically monitoring the one in Chesterfield, it appears unutilised currently which can only be a good thing. I’ll report if I notice an uptick in use.

85650 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Sikboy, #950 of 1308 🔗

Lol! Dare I say it…’Go for it!’


85695 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Sikboy, 2, #951 of 1308 🔗

Aaaargh!! Uptick spotted

85739 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Eddie, #952 of 1308 🔗

Have an uptick for observation.

85736 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sikboy, 1, #953 of 1308 🔗

We have a drive-in place near Carmarthen. Drive in, stick your arm out of your car window, get tested, get a free Covid pen. (Not sure about the last bit.)

85726 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biggles, 2, #954 of 1308 🔗

Last time I heard (from an ‘informed source’) our local testing station was getting twenty punters per day, mostly in groups sent by their employers. Nobody else can be bothered.

85587 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 23, #955 of 1308 🔗

The man’s a genius:


‘I screwed the economy, but I have a plan’. He needs to be sectioned for his, and our good, and as soon as possible.

85611 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #956 of 1308 🔗

Pressure on Sunak to extend the furlough yet again I see. When will it ever end?

Johnson thinks that by saying the same word three times, everything will be OK. But why stop there? I propose that we “Build, build, build, build”. That means 33% more building than his original plan so things will be 33% more OK, right?

85635 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #957 of 1308 🔗

The comments were brilliant.

85636 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #958 of 1308 🔗

It’s like having Baldrick in charge.

85675 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 4, #959 of 1308 🔗

Something will turnip…

85674 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #960 of 1308 🔗

He’s clearly mentally unbalanced either as a result of his PTSD or via his mother’s bipolar genetic heritage.

85602 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 16, #961 of 1308 🔗

Finally a country sees the light: Bangladesh to stop providing daily updates on infections & death . Health minister says the disease is under control and decreasing, which seems to be correct. BBC disapproves More countries will follow?

85634 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, 11, #962 of 1308 🔗

Hold on, it can’t be controlled. The only way is eradication. These crazy fools will kill the human race.

85655 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #963 of 1308 🔗

Lol! Brilliant!


85735 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #964 of 1308 🔗

Won’t apply here, the human race has been superseded by the zombie race,

85682 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 4, #965 of 1308 🔗

Who would have thought that Bangladesh had anything to teach us. .. it seems they do. Well done!

85725 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to swedenborg, 4, #966 of 1308 🔗

I thought Pakistan had given up on Lockdown altogether weeks ago because they simply could not afford it economically.
Result on spread of the Covid? Not a lot.

85614 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #967 of 1308 🔗


The number of people in French hospitals with Covid-19 rose by 34 to 5,045 over the weekend, the nation’s health ministry announced on Monday.

On Tuesday, however, it leveled out again as 33 people with Covid-19 left hospital, leaving 5,012 patients in hospital according France’s health ministry website.

So hospitalisations rose for one day, and then dropped back to where they were the very next day? And this is major news?!

85724 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #968 of 1308 🔗

A few weeks ago it was discovered that hospitalised death rates had improved from 6% to .5%.
Had they found a miracle cure (if so they might have told). Had the Covid suddenly mutated to be less deadly?
Or were they hospitalising people who didn’t need to be there to bump up the numbers and give them story to scare us with.

85789 ▶▶ mrjoeaverage, replying to A. Contrarian, #969 of 1308 🔗

It does seem quite unbelievable, considering we were supposedly “behind France,” that they should have five times more people in hospital that we do. Sounds like the French have a different way of instilling the fear factor!

85630 Nobody2020, 5, #970 of 1308 🔗

I was curious and had to check if people are still dying. What a relief it was to find out they are:


Nearly 160k deaths globally today and over 36M this year. Official death toll for COVID19 is just over 5600 today and 740k YTD.

I’m just glad the majority of people died a proper death and not from COVID19.

85631 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #971 of 1308 🔗

So serious is the situation in NZ that the opposition leader suspended her election campaign and will be “seeking an explanation and clear answers about the situation we now find ourselves in”. I don’t think I would like to see the reaction if somebody actually died.

Mayhem in New Zealand as panic-buying and traffic chaos sweep the country after Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced tough lockdown over just FOUR virus cases – as mayor calls for calm

New Zealanders had been enjoying the return of their usual freedoms after an autumn lockdown proved effective in eliminating the deadly virus.

On Tuesday night, they were told those freedoms would be put on hold.

Opposition Leader Judith Collins on Tuesday night said there was ‘clearly a failure’ in the government’s response to the COVID-19 crisis.

‘This will come as a shock to all New Zealanders who believed what we had been told – that we had got on top of this virus. It is disappointing that it is once again in our community,’ Ms Collins said.

85641 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #972 of 1308 🔗

Listening to the blessed Jacinda now. She is upping testing dramatically …. expect 50-100 cases to be found by next Wednesday !


85666 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #973 of 1308 🔗

There must be a lot of grave-spinning going on at ANZAC cemeteries currently.

85771 ▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #974 of 1308 🔗

“New Zealanders had been enjoying the return of their usual freedoms after an autumn lockdown proved effective in eliminating the deadly virus.”

Surely, what we can now see is that the autumn lockdown was in fact not effective in eliminating the virus?

85944 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #975 of 1308 🔗


They still don’t (want to) get it.
This guy, and Prof. Gupta, do.

85632 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 29, #976 of 1308 🔗

Just been watching the awe-inspiring spectacle of the lightning storm in the distance.

Made me ponder how insignificant the machinations of these maniacs are – those who are trying to tame Nature by making us behave in ways unnatural to the Human spirit. They think they have won already, but they stand at the precipice of their own defeat. All we have to do is resist, resist and resist again, until their house of cards collapses.

Look at the spirit shown by that young girl arrested in Melbourne. She never stopped fighting that uniformed fiend who was pinning her down. She never stopped repeating that she would not comply, even when the reinforcements came and tried to bundle her into the back of a van. She is an example to us all.

85656 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #977 of 1308 🔗

Nice post Mr Dee.


85658 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mr Dee, 8, #978 of 1308 🔗

Resist a little, resist a lot – it matters not a jot as long as you resist and persist.

85734 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 4, #979 of 1308 🔗

Spot on.
Future books on the Great Insanity will have that appalling image on the cover. It will become iconic, like the famous photo of the girl in Vietnam fleeing an air attack.

85645 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, -5, #980 of 1308 🔗

Don’t kill Granny.

85652 ▶▶ RickH, replying to richard riewer, 7, #981 of 1308 🔗

Well – I’m Grandpa, and this f.up is killing my life.

85670 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, 14, #982 of 1308 🔗

I’ve got a new snappy slogan:

“Don’t prolong Granny’s life unnecessarily in ways which will cause her extreme misery, discomfort and depression and particularly don’t pursue vaccines for novel pathogens that will likely result in even more lethal pathogens finding an entry point into our communities.”

85733 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 4, #983 of 1308 🔗

No good using words of more than one syllable.

85654 OKUK, 13, #984 of 1308 🔗

Once again, Deborah Cohen appears to be the sole Voice of Reason at the BBC – another decent Newsnight report from her, this time on “Kiwi Whackamole”, which allowed for some sceptical voices about NZ’s “Zero Covoid” policy.

85657 RickH, replying to RickH, 12, #985 of 1308 🔗

One outcome of this shambles is that it at least confirms that my low opinion of the current generation of politicians isn’t just a sour-puss’s unthinking generalisation.

It is really, really hard to find any of real quality and ability. I’ve found more snowballs in my garden this week.

85663 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 16, #986 of 1308 🔗

We are in a sorry state. Not a single MP has spoken up clearly and unambiguously against the Mask Madness – despite the science being so dubious and the civil liberties argument being so obviously against enforced mask wearing. Not one out of 620 plus.

85679 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, 10, #987 of 1308 🔗

I agree. But there is another angle. Since Mr Toad’s suspension of parliament, followed by the violation of Human/Civic Rights in the Covid ‘enabling legislation’ and its emergent regulations, we have see the fakery of all the ‘unwritten constitution’/’Mother of Parliaments’/ ‘Home of Democracy’ crap – and what lies underneath the flummery.

The easy imposition of totalitarian measures illustrates that the physical decay of the ‘Palace’ (note the term) of Westminster symbolises a deeper constitutional rottenness.

At least this sad period has stripped away gross delusions about the true state of the country, and the illusion of ‘checks and balances’ of a tinsel monarchical system that has never grown up.

85680 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 3, #988 of 1308 🔗

There is a simple and useful formula here:

It is culture that guarantees freedom, not constitutions.

85755 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to OKUK, 4, #989 of 1308 🔗

So true okuk. And when people are bored of their mask-wielding moral superiority, i think we will see expression of regret, remorse and realisation in culture. Artistic culture. I sense that our creativity (I believe the UK to possess latent innovation and creativity) will be unleashed at some point.

85723 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 3, #990 of 1308 🔗

My, usually very good, MP has not said a word about anything for the past 4 months. He used be all over the place on local media, BBC R2 and 4.
Perhaps he is limiting himself to television which I do not watch.

85671 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to RickH, 7, #991 of 1308 🔗

Ooh, Rick, you are so right!

I think back to the days of Michael Foot and Anthony Wedgwood Benn. One may not have agreed with their politics but they were people of integrity and conviction. Compare that with Blair, Cameron, Johnson, Starmer and the rest…phew. I don’t have ANY political affiliations EITHER way but I do think Corbyn had some personal integrity – unfortunately the sharks got him. A shame there aren’t more like him where, even if one disagrees with their politics, one can respect them as individuals.


85693 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DavidC, 1, #992 of 1308 🔗

You are right. For many years I was involved in politics, and learned the hard way the truth of Churchill’s dictum that the opposition was in front – and the enemy behind.

But I never felt the current despair over the ascent of short-trousered (and gym-slipped) neophytes that now infest the Commons.

I knew a succession of three MPs in the constituency in which I lived – and observed a notable decline in quality of the third – who succeeded in the Blair years. Predecessors were people of real substance and depth; the latter an Islington tourist.

There were always shits around. It happens and comes with the territory. But also a lot of good people – such that I could work quite happily with the Tory opposition leader on issues where we could agree.

I’ve spent a lot of time defending the pursuit of politics against the usual lazy crap about ‘They’re all the same’ etc. – because they never were. But I find myself now in the position where I am making such generalisations about the occupants of the Commons benches.

As to Corbyn – I might have some reservations about his leadership skills – but, yes, I do exclude him from my generalised vilification. It is, perhaps, most significant that the establishment wet their pants at the thought of a genuinely honest politician – thus all the fictitious crap that was thrown at him, courtesy the propaganda organs that are now promoting the Covid myths. When you have two head honchos of the MI6 establishment singing in harmony with The Groan – you know you’re dealing with big-time black ops lies.

85776 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to DavidC, 1, #993 of 1308 🔗

I think it was on the Peter Hitchens talk show that Starmer was discussed with the conclusion that he was not blue or red just beige.

85692 Hugh, replying to Hugh, 6, #994 of 1308 🔗

Help please.

I am rather keen to have crowds back at sporting events by October – when it is hoped our season will resume, so that there will not be mass liquidations of sports clubs below elite level – on an internet forum, I even said that this could be dependent on Covid-19 deaths continuing to fall, as they have been for months in the UK. I would be willing to also set aside a section of the stadium with social distancing for those who felt particularly vulnerable whilst allowing the rest of us to mingle as normal. But inevitably someone suggested that if we abandon “social distancing” in the coming months at sports events, we could have second and third waves for 2 years like the Spanish flu, or something. What should in fact be done, and when can we go back to normal, and what if there never is an effective vaccine? Are we stuck like this forever, or only for a few years? And are Scotland Yard, Peking etc. really monitoring this site?

85694 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Hugh, 3, #995 of 1308 🔗

Two words :

Vaccine. Kerrching!

85708 ▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to RickH, 2, #996 of 1308 🔗

Well, I said do you want this to continue until there is a vaccine if there ever is a vaccine, and some other things I’ll probably regret when I sober up. I’ll see what happens…

85709 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Hugh, 15, #997 of 1308 🔗

See guy153’s comment above, this is what has happened: ‘First you wait for infections to peak, get that out of the way nice and early. Then you have a lockdown anyway now that it won’t make any difference. This avoids any risk of a second wave. Then you can ad lib from there, maybe mandate masks in shops, perhaps destroy the arts, it’s all good.
It’s a lot like Derren Brown or somebody. The actual trick has usually happened before the patter has even started…’
The virus had maxed out its possible effect, burned through pretty well all the susceptible population already, no chance of a ‘second wave’, not in England anyway. Go back to normal with impunity.
Come winter there may be some new viruses about, there usually are. The over 70s will get offered a flu virus cocktail vaccination as per usual, might help if medics have actually predicted which ones are prevalent that year. Or you can take your chances. If you get out and about in the sun, eat well, don’t smoke etc etc you’ll probably get better naturally from most infections until you’re too old for that to happen any more, then you die. The End.

85798 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 3, #998 of 1308 🔗

I think it’s clear that the UK now has herd immunity– we have had around 30,000 active infections distributed all over the place for many weeks now as behaviour returned to relative normality. That would have broken out into near exponential growth if there were still a large susceptible population.

We probably have herd immunity with a reduced threshold though. Pre-lockdown measures such as hand-washing and staying at home when ill have the potential to cut R0 in half. This means that if you stopped doing that, you might have a second wave, and end up at double the total you had before. Whatever we were doing, and whatever difference it made, some of it may have been before the peak. If that were so then if we went right back to the “normal” behaviour of this time last year, there would be a correction.

We can see from data like this: https://syndromictrends.com/metric/panel/rp/percent_positivity/organism/main (and I think there is similar data for the UK done by the RCGP) that respiratory viruses are back up to about half their “normal” levels for this time of year. This reflects the behaviour changes.

But I can’t see us going back to “normal” behaviour over night anyway.

The equilibrium level is higher in winter, so we can expect to see a rise in infections then. But already other viruses are infecting people at 10x the rate of SARS2. A lot depends on what happens this winter. People will continue to be careful, but if we continue to see other viruses, particularly a different coronavirus dominate this winter, then we can truly declare that SARS2 was over before the winter, and expect it to come back in a few years.

85762 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Hugh, 5, #999 of 1308 🔗

You may not have seen this BBC article, but apparently what we have now is supposed to last indefinitely (the scene described is in 2025): This is what coronavirus will do to our offices and homes
I’m not sure that attempts at appeasement of the coronaphobic will work. We are looking at permanent loss of live music and sports events. Hopefully, young people will care enough about this to fight against it. I’m older, but I recognise that the loss is tremendous.

85907 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, #1000 of 1308 🔗

I gave up live events decades ago but cannot imagine my teenage years, 20’s or 30’s without them.

85773 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Hugh, 6, #1001 of 1308 🔗

Interesting, I had had a similar thought, open theatres and sporting events with a normal area for all who do not consider themselves vulnerable and a separate area with all the precautionary bells and whistles for those who are concerned. The Government then only need to act if hospital cases and deaths start to rise.
If people are very vulnerable e.g. very old or cancer treatments they would probably not be going anyway.
I do feel that if we allow the vulnerable to protect themselves and have suitable measures in places for institutions susceptible to nosocomial infections (hospitals, care homes etc.) then we can scrap all this nonsense for the majority and get back to normal life.
I do feel that this is the sort of approach that the Boris of a few years ago would have made but as Mrs Thatcher would probably say of him if she was still around he’s ‘frit’ and has no confidence to make a bold decision.

86057 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Hugh, #1002 of 1308 🔗

There are lots of reasons to expect no significant “second wave”, but lots of the kinds of effects you get from having an endemic virus of this kind added to the already existing similar cold viruses will surely occur and be claimed as “second waves”. Local flare ups where populations were isolated from the original epidemic, or where numbers of vulnerable have increased again until a change in behaviour or season allows a brief epidemic, perhaps minor mutations (usually in the direction of less killyness) etc. Guy153 explains the situation well, as usual.

The problem is that it’s hard to see a practicable way of getting the truth across in the kind of situation you describe. There is no simple “killer point” that can be put across to win such debates, because there are always counters that can be put to any particular point made, which can in turn be countered but often that requires reference to further science or analysis, and you end up losing the attention of the audience.

85699 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 12, #1003 of 1308 🔗

When I walked in to the supermarket yesterday a young man sprayed my hands then asked me if I had any symptoms. I growled at him and kept walking. He shouted the same question at my back. I think a good reply would have been are you a doctor? Do you have a degree in medicine? Got a thermometer? Where’s your stethoscope? But that’s how they spread the lockdown, by enlisting non-specialist people to do their dirty work. The PM, the government, ministers, doctors, SAGE and health officials, journalists and bedwetters should all come out of their foxholes and ask us face to face instead of hiding behind their proxies.

85722 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1004 of 1308 🔗

I have gone out of my way to be patient and polite with staff doing, or asking me to do, stupid things because the Covid.
After all they are only obeying orders, that young man would have tested said patience especially if he appeared to be enjoying it.

85806 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1005 of 1308 🔗

Something would have sprayed from his nose, had that been me.

85706 richard riewer, 2, #1006 of 1308 🔗

Anyone here take up the challenge of writing a satirical Greta Thunberg cookbook/guide to Green living?

85713 Gillian, #1007 of 1308 🔗

85714 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #1008 of 1308 🔗

So the gaslighting continues with “increased hospitalisation in France”, responding to the dawning in the general population and media that increased testing = increased cases but no increase in hospitalisation. Obviously the machinery of lies had to be mobilised to squash this sombrero of understanding. And sure enough…the increased cases in hospitals in France is because they have started testing more people in hospital in France. It’s not because more people are being hospitalised with covid.

85902 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1009 of 1308 🔗

Increased hospitalisation got sussed weeks ago, shove more not very ill people into hospital and there’s your headline. Surprise surprise recovery rate goes up.
That’s why it’s now all about The Cases.

85720 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 5, #1010 of 1308 🔗


Another good one from The Critic

85721 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 3, #1011 of 1308 🔗

The many pertinent conclusions are rather spoilt by too many academic references, with the result that the whole piece resembles a first year undergrad essay.

(I remember doing this!)

Nonetheless, its examination of the epidemic levels of anomie brought on by this dystopian disaster is spot on.

85761 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to wendyk, 2, #1012 of 1308 🔗

Also found mention of a story I’d missed: “The Daily Mail recently reported that British women feel more aggressed by men since mask mandates have come in.”

Also interesting that I saw a third woman refused entry to a bus yesterday for not wearing a mask – the same day that I saw many people on board not wearing masks, especially on the top decks (probably came in with one on and took it off when they got upstairs).

85768 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to ConstantBees, 7, #1013 of 1308 🔗

In an earlier conversation I reported a troubling conversation with a lady who works at our local Savers: a young woman -a regular customer and exempt, with badge-told her that she’d been shouted at and intimidated in the street, but not in shops.

Human behaviour at its worst; reminiscent of the mobs which terrorised germany in the 30s, and more recently in Mao’s China and many other places.

85815 ▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to wendyk, 2, #1014 of 1308 🔗

But masks are not mandatory outside in the street! People are becoming so horrible because of this.

85845 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #1015 of 1308 🔗

Only if they were horrible to start with. Formerly, civilised society kept them in check. Totalitarianism is guaranteed to bring out the very worst in people.

85897 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 1, #1016 of 1308 🔗

Probably looked weak and vulnerable, the bullies know they are on camera in the shops.
I’m 6’2 and wear Dr Martens, nobody shouts at me !

85763 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to wendyk, 1, #1017 of 1308 🔗

Good article 👍🏻

86004 ▶▶ RickH, replying to wendyk, #1018 of 1308 🔗

A good article. There needs to be an accounting for this willed social/psychological damage. But the media float around uselessly and willfully pumping out a daily diet of justification.

It isn’t just the obvious issue of individual isolation. We have a wide and strong family and circle of friends and neighbours who have all been ignoring the egregious measures supposedly in place in the private sphere. ‘Bubbles’? – F. off. ‘Social distance?’ Go screw yourself, Boris…. etc.

But … but … the damage inflicted on the life of society in general is manifest in the psychological state of everyone, with depression, anxiety ad anger mounting.

This is really serious.

85777 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to MaxPower, 5, #1020 of 1308 🔗

Why are there no testing stations for flu, with a full test, trace and isolate system in place?

85795 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Gillian, 3, #1021 of 1308 🔗

Agreed, and why did hospitals and GP surgeries take no protective measures in previous years?

85812 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1022 of 1308 🔗

Sadly that might come, now, to justify the coronapanic. They are stopping at nothing to hide the truth.

85752 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 5, #1023 of 1308 🔗

Not sure if this has already been posted (apologies if so) but did anyone spot in the DT yesterday a small piece hidden in the article ‘Impulse buys disappear as mask rules hit high street’. It was a small piece saying that anti mask activists (StandUpX) stormed a supermarket to berate shoppers for wearing muzzles. Was this reported anywhere else? How did the shoppers and the store react? It was a Morrisons store in Peckham – was anyone there?

85754 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #1024 of 1308 🔗

Really weird – can’t find it in the online article but it’s there on the DT App in yesterday’s edition…

85811 ▶▶ Julian, replying to HelzBelz, 7, #1025 of 1308 🔗

I have mixed feelings about “berating shoppers for wearing muzzles”. I tend to think that’s not what should be happening, and won’t lead to a good outcome. I think we should stand up for the freedom NOT to wear masks, and point out the dangers and uselessness of doing so, and berate people only for berating those who don’t.

That said, people wearing masks when they don’t need to do annoy me, especially the young, who cannot all be vulnerable.

85821 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Julian, 3, #1026 of 1308 🔗

Doesn’t sound like they were picking on individuals – berate was the word used in the piece. It says they were walking the aisles with megaphones saying things like masks are bad for you, don’t submit to the propaganda, think for yourselves etc.

85764 anon, replying to anon, 7, #1028 of 1308 🔗

what are the options for removing an illegitimate government in the uk?

(parliament too)

85775 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to anon, 4, #1029 of 1308 🔗

Gunpowder an option. Where is Guy Fawkes when you need him?

85783 ▶▶ matt, replying to anon, 8, #1030 of 1308 🔗

There are none, in effect.
Technically the Queen can dismiss parliament, but it’s a purely ceremonial power, used only when parliament votes to dissolve itself and go for a general election. If she tried to use the power independently, it would trigger a constitutional crisis that would mean the end of the monarchy, very probably.
Parliament can hold a vote of no confidence, which would force a change of leadership (or at least a leadership election), but they won’t and “no confidence” wouldn’t necessarily force a general election anyway. Parliament is supposed to hold the executive to account, but obviously they have no interest in doing so.
The courts can rule against the legitimacy of executive decisions and legislation, but they haven’t. As far as I can see, the next opportunity for this to happen would be the Simon Dolan case. The question will be whether the judge in the case is able to be genuinely impartial – in which case I can’t see how he could possibly find that the last few months have been lawful – or whether he’s bought into the fear agenda and is prepared to accept that civilization should be run on the basis of the precautionary principle and in slavish obedience to “The Science”. If the latter, we have a real problem on our hands.

85803 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, 4, #1031 of 1308 🔗

I think we have the real problem. ‘The Science’ has been redefined as what the pet (hired) experts say; no evidence-based argument will be listened to, so a judge would, you guessed it, ‘follow the science’. Parliament are happy to go on holiday in the midst of a monstrous imposition on the people of this country, and opposition et al have said nowt. Be afraid, be very afraid.

85831 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1032 of 1308 🔗

The judge, in theory, will be intelligent, educated and trained and experienced in listening to the balance of the arguments and making a rational decision. All of which would be a big tick. The problem is that recent history has shown that the 21st century judiciary has also been stuffed with former human rights lawyers and is unashamedly political. That has the potential to be a big black mark.

Both Science and The Science are what they are. The judge in theory shouldn’t be expected to make a decision on whether this virus was enough of a threat to justify the measures taken against it – we don’t want a decision that says that lockdown etc was a _disproportionate_ reaction, we want a decision that says that lockdown etc. was per se constitutionally unacceptable. To say that it was disproportionate is to set the precedent that there are circumstances under which the executive should be permitted to effectively suspend the constitution and incarcerate the population (along with all sorts of other draconian measures) by diktat.

86023 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #1033 of 1308 🔗

The problem is that it’s easy to argue that there must be a reserve power for government to do precisely that. If we hypothesize a disease with the infectiousness of common respiratory diseases and the personal consequences of ebola, say, then you are actually facing the kind of existential threat to the nation that could justify the measures the government took.

[Such a disease is fantastically unlikely, but nobody could say it’s actually impossible, and you could hypothesise way such a thing could come into being by design or mutation. It does no good to say that it would not last long in nature because it would run out of victims, because it would only die out after taking down our civilisation and leaving rump, isolated populations in the ruins to rebuild.]

I would argue that as a matter of policy we should refuse to allow for such possibilities, and we should make these kinds of actions by government flat out illegal in any situation, ruat caelum. Then at least it would force the government to knowingly break the rules to do what is necessary if it were ever to arise. But lawyers and political theorists don’t like such arguments. They prefer to allow for legal ways to deal with such hypotheticals. And further, they will always find other rights to “balance” against rights used to justify constitutional bans on government actions It would be easy to see arguments based on such situations being used to justify a constitutional basis for emergency actions of the kind we’ve seen, especially if the court is inclined to find ways to find in favour of the government or the lockdown.

86127 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, #1034 of 1308 🔗

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Like the distancers, sanitisers, and maskers ? No ta.

85890 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, #1035 of 1308 🔗

The Queens representative in Australia removed Gough Whitlams Government (1990’s ?). Fortunately for their constitution and The Commonweath the electorate agreed and voted in the former opposition.

86131 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, #1036 of 1308 🔗

Or at least so those who counted the votes said …

85910 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, #1037 of 1308 🔗

Parliament evolved to keep the sovereign in check.Now the sovereign is just a figurehead the executive takes the place of the sovereign and we end up with an elective dictatorship.

85912 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1038 of 1308 🔗

It’s actually worse than that now.We have rule by decree announced on Twitter

85955 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1039 of 1308 🔗

The Queen can still both remove the Government and refuse to sign statutes into law but She’d better get it right or Charlie could be robbed of his inheritance.
She could invite Toby to form a Government if he persuaded her he could command a majority in the Commons.

86037 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to karenovirus, #1040 of 1308 🔗

In practice though she could never act unless there were already a very substantial body of opinion backing her, in which case it’s highly unlikely that the “Conservative” backbenchers would not act anyway in most situations.

The Queen has no effective role in protecting the nation, constitutionally, any more. The real (and important) remaining role of the Monarchy is to keep the pomp and the ceremonial position of Head of State out of the grubby, contemptible hands of politicians.

It was some tiny consolation back in the Blair era that the arrogant, lying little shit still at least had to bow to someone else in the country, even at the peak of his power and hubris.

86051 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, #1041 of 1308 🔗

It’s been done in a Common Law country within living memory, see my comment about Australia just above (below?)

86093 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to karenovirus, #1042 of 1308 🔗

Yes, but that was in a situation where a controversial government was vulnerable to it. It was still a risky gamble, but in the end all that was a stake was Australia.

In this country, if the Queen were to act against the Johnson government it would just mean most likely the end of the monarchy, because the vast majority would have no sympathy for it. The hard fact is that hardline sceptics are a minority, and probably quite a small one at that. If we become a majority, we will find plenty of opportunists in the “Conservative” Party willing to lead a Parliamentary coup against him.

85960 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #1043 of 1308 🔗

Correct. Although parliament as a check on the monarchy hasn’t actually been particularly relevant since William III. At the risk of writing a dissertation-length post, every part of the constitution (which is actually a very clever set of checks and balances) has failed, mostly as a result of badly conceived tinkering and societal changes over the last few decades. Parliament – especially but not only the opposition – should be a check on the executive. It isn’t. The upper chamber should be a check on the elected chamber. It hasn’t been. Public opinion should inform the direction of their elected representatives – it turns out that public opinion is easily manipulated and appallingly badly informed. The press should help shape public opinion by aggressively checking the thinking and the competence of the government – they can’t be bothered because fear and sensationalism sell more papers and attract more viewers. In turn, by the way, the executive should be a check on the tyranny of the majority by making their own decisions and having confidence that good government ultimately leads to electoral success, whatever the public thinks today. They haven’t, because blowing in the wind of the latest opinion poll is less scary and takes less effort. As a final backstop, the monarch should be our last hope to stop the executive from descending into tyranny. But effectively, she now can’t.

It’s a complete collapse that’s been building for years. We can hope that this crisis leads to a serious and considered rethink, but I don’t have a lot of confidence.

85965 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, #1044 of 1308 🔗

Just to add – the courts also have a role in testing the constitutional legitimacy of executive and parliamentary actions. So far they’ve failed to do so and we have learned from the recent past that they only seem really interested in this when it suits their own agenda (which they should not have).

86095 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to matt, #1045 of 1308 🔗

Very good summary. Someone like Charles Moore needs to write a book about it – unless you fancy doing it yourself!

86137 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, #1046 of 1308 🔗

… mostly as a result of badly conceived tinkering and societal changes

Some would, sadly, consider it very well conceived tinkering.

86277 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #1047 of 1308 🔗

I think the area we need to first consider is the use of the Statutory Instrument (SI). This tool exists for emergency measures which are needed right now, rather than following due process which is the normal route to enacting new laws.

Where this falls down is where government uses SI to govern. Hasty legislation is usually bad legislation, and legislation based on pure emotion is ALWAYS bad legislation.

Law is not about grey areas. Either a thing is lawful, or it is not and the use of SI’s is lawful. The real question here is whether it is constitutional or not to govern by SI, which empower officials who really ought not have so much power without democratic accountability and scrutiny, which is sadly missing from ALL our Corona legislation. Many of these officials’ decisions may even prove illegal. This is the minefield that gave the Police pause, because SI does not overwrite Law. One of the most famous examples of this in recent years was the Gina Miller case concerning “meaningful” vote.

In short, SI has been used to allow government by ministerial diktat, and this is an area of government any reformers ought to inspect first. Yes, SI may well be a necessary instrument at times, but it should not be used for everyday governing.

85765 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #1048 of 1308 🔗

Silly basic question really but when the media report Covis cases, what is a case? You can find a definition here; https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/surveillance/case-definition but I am not entirely clear whether a case by that definition means all or just some of the criteria? I get the impression that a case, as reported on the news, is just a +ve test result with no medical/clinical assessment, is that correct?
If people have a +ve test result but no symptoms how does it justify being counted as a case in medical terms?

85778 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #1049 of 1308 🔗

As far as I can tell, a case is any positive result for SARS-COV-2 virus with or without symptoms of CoViD19. This is based on information published in my local newspaper the Leicester Mercury. It is the increased testing that is being used as a cudgel for local lockdown.

85779 ▶▶ anon, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #1050 of 1308 🔗

yes i believe that is correct

tests are inconclusive too

the media is whipping people into a frenzy with their lies and misrepresentation

I still see so much fear in people in my area. if only they knew or were able to reach a state of mind where they could rationalise

there are very dark forces at play

85802 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to anon, 1, #1051 of 1308 🔗

It is definitely positive tests only that are being defined as cases. See https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton/burton-care-home-suspends-family-4415637 third paragraph onwards.

85997 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #1052 of 1308 🔗

‘Case’ now means detection of a random bit of RNA that is alleged to indicate the presence of a virus. It is not related to illness.

85766 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1053 of 1308 🔗

Vernon Coleman got cancelled off my YouTube feed and for the first time since lockdown he has not posted a new vid for three days.
Next to be cancelled outright.

85774 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1054 of 1308 🔗

He said last week that he is only posting new videos Sundays and Wednesdays.

85879 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gillian, #1055 of 1308 🔗

Thank you, Gillian, missed that.

85846 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to karenovirus, #1056 of 1308 🔗

You can find him elsewhere. e.g.Rhodium Channels | Brand New Tube
But he hasn’t posted for a few days you are right.

85780 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 47, #1057 of 1308 🔗

Here is a comment from an article in the Telegraph yesterday about job losses as a result of the lockdown. This sums everything up. Thanks to the author Douglas.

A storm is coming indeed ! In more ways than one. The fall-out from these four months of unnecessary lockdown are only just beginning to be appoarent.
The economy is wrecked and will take decades to overcome. People dying in thousands as a direct consequence – far far more than any directly due to this low-fatality grade Covid virus. Unemployment and businesses going bust . . .on and on . . more and more damage the half of which you ain’t seen yet !
And why? All because of the unbelievable incompetence of a pig-headed Boris and his useless government !
His decision to impose lockdown is the biggest political and very real blunder of modern times for this country. It is as stupid and inneffectual as Chamberlain ‘s ‘Peace in our time’ blunder . .waving his useless bit of paper after Munich !
“Squash the sombrero” was Boris’ chant on camera . . . and was as big a blunder as Chamberlain’s:
. . . there was NO danger to the NHS as since proven;
the NHS was NOT overwhelmed; the pandemic was controlled without Nightingale hospitals;
. . .the virus followed a normal epidemic trajectory and is now spent. Herd immunity is with us already to a large extent because 80% of the population were already immune to start with due to T cell immunity to Covid-like viruses;
. . .there will be NO “second spike”; the virus is now established as a normal endemic disease throughout the world and will come and go exactly like seasonal flu.
This debacle has been, and continues to be the biggest political mistake in my lifetime, the consequences being catastrophic for the people of this country . . .I think on a par with a warlike assault from a belligerent power – but in this case self-inflicted by an insane government.
Douglas Denny

85784 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Gillian, 9, #1058 of 1308 🔗

Should Boris be….

a) fired
b) imprisoned
c) shot

Your vote?

85786 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Winston Smith, 14, #1059 of 1308 🔗

a then b then c

85838 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to anon, 4, #1060 of 1308 🔗

Also stabbed and hanged. The good old threefold death routine.

85899 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to annie, 1, #1061 of 1308 🔗

After the hanging, what about the drawing and quartering?

85790 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #1062 of 1308 🔗

a) now!

Trouble is-who would replace him? I dread to think.We need someone with moral courage and enough clout to see off Sturgeon and the mendacious MSM.

Any suggestions? I’m genuinely interested.

85832 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to wendyk, 5, #1063 of 1308 🔗

Lord Sumption

85847 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1064 of 1308 🔗

Or, if he refuses, Screaming Lord Sutch. We need a sane person in charge.

85884 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to wendyk, 11, #1065 of 1308 🔗

Replacing him will be easy.

comment image &f=1&nofb=1

86032 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to wendyk, 3, #1066 of 1308 🔗

Sunak or Gove maybe. Of the realistic candidates. They are guilty too in my book, but maybe a bit less so.

85792 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Winston Smith, 8, #1067 of 1308 🔗

Exiled to New Zealand, with permanently closed borders. He will be bored shitless there for the rest of his life. Which won’t be long unless he loses some of those excess kilos.

85801 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Gillian, 3, #1068 of 1308 🔗

I like that idea. There’s a certain poetic justice to it. Otherwise I would like to think we have some laws here that cover what has been done. If we do, they should certainly be applied.

86054 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gillian, #1069 of 1308 🔗

Better St Helena – just like Napoleon.

85799 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #1070 of 1308 🔗

Is option “a” fired as in “at the stake”? If so then definitely that one.

85826 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #1071 of 1308 🔗

d) be made to wear a mask for the rest of his days.

85943 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1072 of 1308 🔗

and blue gloves and a freekin visor

85844 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Winston Smith, #1073 of 1308 🔗

a and b, Neds d while b.

86047 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Winston Smith, #1074 of 1308 🔗

All of the above plus defenestration before the shooting.

86097 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Winston Smith, #1075 of 1308 🔗

Just Boris? Can I have the rest of the Establishment please? All of it?

85785 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Gillian, 2, #1076 of 1308 🔗

low-fatality grade Covid virus


85791 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Gillian, 2, #1077 of 1308 🔗

National responses to the pandemic .

I agree that the government has allowed itself to be misled by the health professionals. The same has happened across the world.

I cannot imagine the opposite scenario: in March, the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser tell the government they need to impose a lockdown or everyone will die – and the government says “No, my guess is it’s a harmless bug”. Come on, that’s just not credible.

85800 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to WhyNow, 11, #1078 of 1308 🔗

Whitty is on record from the very beginning saying most of us wouldn’t get this virus throughout the whole epidemic. Of those that did, most wouldn’t know they’d got it. A few would need a day or two in bed, some might need hospital treatment, a tiny proportion would need intensive care but recover and a very few people would die.

85805 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Margaret, 1, #1079 of 1308 🔗

He said the fatality rate was estimated at 4%. It isn’t tenable now to argue that the health professionals were NOT demanding lockdown.

And the rest of the world? Was the government responsible for all those too? The lockdowns in France, Italy, Spain, Portugal: all more severe than here and all the work of Boris?

It is a global hysteria. Look at what is happening in Australia and New Zealand!

85810 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 1, #1080 of 1308 🔗

It is global hysteria, but how does that excuse reckless action? Or are you saying it’s acceptable for a PM to be hysterical? Isn’t this more or less the Nuremberg Defence?

85827 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Julian, #1081 of 1308 🔗

Of course not. But if you want to blame the government, you would have to a) explain why everyone else across the world did the same and b) have a plausible scenario where the government did something different back in March.

I’m not defending the government. What they are doing is crazy. But it would be simplistic not to look across the world and see the same happening everywhere. The forces of hysteria are much bigger than a single government.

85851 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to WhyNow, 3, #1082 of 1308 🔗

To be fair, this is lot in this. Governments across the world have done the same. But those governments aren’t accountable to us, and it doesn’t absolve Johnson et al.’s incompetence and dishonesty.

To diagnose and deal with the problems here, we surely do need to recognise that the same problems have been exhibited throughout most of the Western World.

a plausible scenario where the government did something different back in March’: that one’s easy: Sweden.

85866 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, 2, #1083 of 1308 🔗

And Belarus.

85979 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to TJN, 1, #1084 of 1308 🔗

“‘ a plausible scenario where the government did something different back in March’: that one’s easy: Sweden .”

And indeed that was broadly our policy until the crucial week in March when it was thrown away in a contemptible panic response.

86123 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 2, #1085 of 1308 🔗

It was panicking in the face of a rapidly increasing death rate and the sniping from the MSM. Of course, the government may well have unleashed the MSM monster themselves, I’m sure we’ll learn the full truth of that one day.

This does not excuse the government or, indeed, any other part of the establishment for the mess. People themselves look to their leaders for leadership in times of crisis and found none. No wonder they’re still a bit on the dazed side!

Even among those who sought peace in 1940, there was no (obvious) panic from the government. Churchill may have been unique when faced with no allies outside the Commonwealth and a few Free forces, half our trade and supplies being sunk in the Atlantic, an enemy air force about to bomb our cities, AND a serious cash flow problem, but he did not panic. Nor did he allow others to panic. 

86134 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, #1086 of 1308 🔗

Indeed. This, I think, is the measure of the real personal failure of Johnson at the crucial moment.

85878 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 4, #1087 of 1308 🔗

The peak of the infection had already been reached before lockdown.
To absolve our government because others went into lockdown is ridiculous.
I can’t explain where the pressure came from to lockdown because I wasn’t privy to it but I know it wasn’t scientific and for an alternative course of action one word.

86139 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1088 of 1308 🔗

The government was facing whichever way the wind was blowing strongest. This is not the first government to be found lacking in its crisis management. Cameron with the floods, Blair with food and mouth, Major with BSE, and in a different era, Heath and Callaghan with the unions, were all found wanting.

86067 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to WhyNow, #1089 of 1308 🔗

agree global hysteria. But Boris and co are responsible for failing to exercise leadership once it was clear that the NHS would not collapse. Failing to get schools back before summer break, failing to get NHS to deliver the services we all pay for as well as the introduction of pointless face coverings which may (more likely will) cause unnecessary suffering to a vast number of people. Please feel free to add to the list.

85841 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 2, #1090 of 1308 🔗

The classic Nuremberg defence was ‘only following orders’.

86146 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #1091 of 1308 🔗

Unless you were Speer of course. “I accept responsibility but am not responsible. It was him! Him! Sauckel!!”

85854 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1092 of 1308 🔗

Have you got a link for Whitty saying the fatality rate was 4% please? I can only remember China saying it was 3-4% in the early days but then it revised that number down considerably when it realised that more people had been infected than they first realised.

85862 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Margaret, 2, #1093 of 1308 🔗

I remember Whitty saying most people won’t get it. He have a numerical value. He then went on to unpack the likelihood like a series of Russian dolls – if you are fit and healthy you may only get a sniffle but a tiny group will need medical attention. Of those who do a really tiny group will need to go to hospital. Of those an even smaller group will need a drip…and so on.

85882 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 1, #1094 of 1308 🔗

Yep he said it least twice.once for the whole nation in the cabinet press conference.ive saved it on my phone just to remind myself and send to relatives who have been overly frightened by the government

85864 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Margaret, #1095 of 1308 🔗

It would be an extraordinary re-writing of history to believe that Johnson caused a lockdown against the advice of the health professionals.

85880 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 1, #1096 of 1308 🔗

Read the sage minutes.They go up to March 18.
I think you are the one rewriting history

85865 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, 1, #1097 of 1308 🔗

Before our lockdown S.Korea randomly tested thousands of young people and found a great many of them were Covid Survived, thus greatly reducing their fatality rate.
That’s when ‘they’re started saying immunity may not last very long.

85858 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to WhyNow, 3, #1098 of 1308 🔗

I don’t see it as hysteria at it’s core. There are many countries who did not go headless chicken. There is a pattern surrounding which have turned most hysterical. The globalist G20 ones in particular.

The chaos causing politicians cheer led the whipping up of hysterial reaction. Connected by the societies, clubs and globalist organisations – the WEF, the UN/WHO, Foundations, etc. and scholars with rich patrons.

There is no feeling of organic natural reation to the problem of an new, but not overly deadly virus. The reaction globally has been contrived and co ordinated.

85998 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1099 of 1308 🔗

It isn’t tenable now to argue that the health professionals were NOT demanding lockdown

It is nothing like as simple as that. If you read the notorious Imperial College report that was so profoundly wrong and did so much harm, even that didn’t suggest the full lockdown that was ultimately put in place, presumably because they didn’t consider there was any plausible possibility of enacting it effectively and on a sustained basis):

Combining all four interventions (social distancing of the entire population, case isolation, household quarantine [ of cases, not the whole population ] and school and university closure) is predicted to have the largest impact, short of a complete lockdown which additionally prevents people going to work.

There was a complex and very interesting feedback interaction at the crucial time between politicians, media and the particular experts and “influencers” that were being listened to, in which the groupthink evolved to grossly exaggerate the fears and to persuade themselves that increased measures could be justified. They are all culpable, but the politicians have leadership responsibility here.

86106 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to WhyNow, #1100 of 1308 🔗

Hysteria and, for some ungodly unknown reason, adopting tactics employed by Communist China to “combat” the virus.

85926 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Margaret, #1101 of 1308 🔗

Didn’t that video get censored on YouTube for promoting such heresy?

85809 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 10, #1102 of 1308 🔗

I’m not sure “everyone else did it” is much of a defence, neither is “he told me to do it”. It’s the politicians job to evaluate all the evidence, and make a decision based on the effect on the country as a whole. The scientists’ remit is narrower. For starters, they admitted no cost benefit analysis was done. That in itself is inexcusable. What’s been done since – doubling down and introducing bullshit theatrical measures, knowing that the “danger” is nothing like what may have been originally believed – cannot be excused at all.

In any case, no-one say “everyone will die” and neither is anyone saying the response should have been “it’s a harmless bug”.

The PM & co must shoulder most of the responsibility for this. They sought high office, and came up short. That’s how it works.

85824 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Julian, -1, #1103 of 1308 🔗

The idea that a UK government, alone across the world, would decide not to lockdown is fanciful.

We should concentrate on the present. Government needs some help from the public in seeing that this was all an hysterical overreaction.

85839 ▶▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to WhyNow, 6, #1104 of 1308 🔗

The lockdown was for three weeks to reduce the peak of cases and buy time for the NHS to cope. A cost-benefit analysis, if done at the time, may have decided that this was credible.
It was becoming clear that the IFR (calc by Ferguson 0.9%) was overstated.
Mid-April was Gov’t’s opportunity to get the country back to normal, and they blew it.

85872 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BTLnewbie, 7, #1105 of 1308 🔗

Should have said after 3 weeks ‘the worst is over, back to work everyone, thanks for saving the NHS, oldies and vulnerable can keep shielding until they feel safe.’

85921 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1106 of 1308 🔗


85840 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to WhyNow, 7, #1107 of 1308 🔗

Well Sweden didn’t. It just takes a bit of intelligence and fortitude. That’s the least I expect from a leader. It also means having the guts to be unpopular for a while and weathering a storm.

Not saying it’s easy but there was a choice and there still are choices and he continues to make the wrong ones.

85869 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to WhyNow, #1108 of 1308 🔗

How much of the rest of the world followed our lead, especially Commonwealth?

85886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1109 of 1308 🔗

The whole world didn’t lock down.Japan Sweden.The world bank offered Belarus money to lockdown but they refused it.

86059 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, #1110 of 1308 🔗

Hardly alone. Just in a minority.

I am very much concentrating on the present – we’d be better off without them – they should apologise publicly then p*** off.

As regards helping them, I think they know very well it was a hysterical overreaction, and far from being hapless victims of public hysteria they deliberately helped whip up that hysteria AND CONTINUE TO DO SO AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY.

I just don’t buy the line that they are trying to get out of this.

86155 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #1111 of 1308 🔗

It’s the continuous doubling-down and digging that hole ever deeper that is the most disappointing aspect of this. If they’d come back on 14th April to say that they’d achieved what they set out to do with the lockdown, then I could have accepted they meant what they said.

But they didn’t, they doubled-down.

They lied.

85990 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 2, #1112 of 1308 🔗

Agreed. What is totally inexcusable is the now, when it is clear that there is no epidemic of this relatively mild virus, and no sign of that fiction – a ‘second wave’. Everything is being sustained by stories about statistically insignificant ‘cases’ that ate based on a highly questionable test.

Arse-covering is the kindest interpretation.

86006 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #1113 of 1308 🔗

The PM & co must shoulder most of the responsibility for this. They sought high office, and came up short. That’s how it works.

Exactly so. Never forget. Never forgive.

But after that is established and accepted, then there is plenty more blame to go around. This has been a self-inflicted disaster on an almost unprecedented scale. You could argue that only the decision to enter WW1 compares in terms of sheer gratuitousness combined with scale of consequences. And like WW1, there’s a case to be made that it highlights the failure of an entire national elite. WW1 resulted in their being swept out of power wholesale. Difficult to see how that can be achieved in this case, though.

At the time of WW1 there was the socialist movement waiting in the wings, and they basically did the job. [I don’t say that was necessarily a good thing overall, I merely observe that it happened.] I see no similar movement waiting in the wings now.

Which leaves us with a discredited, incompetent and soon to be wholly discredited establishment and a looming economic and social disaster. Not a good situation.

85813 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to WhyNow, 10, #1114 of 1308 🔗

There’s discussion down below somewhere of the increasing number of credible voices who are saying that the virus was engineered. Someone (sorry – forget who) suggested that, if this was known at the time it might explain the panic reaction we have seen around the world.

Initially I thought that made sense, but now I don’t think I do. The key point is those couple of weeks when the decision went from “social distancing, wash your hands, herd immunity” to “everybody gets locked up now!” If the government and SAGE thought they were potentially dealing with a lethal bio weapon, herd immunity would never have been considered as an option.

The SAGE minutes seem to me to place the blame squarely at Johnson’s door (with a helping left over for Ferguson). I find it hard to see anything compelling to persuade me that it was anything other than a half-informed panic reaction to a terrifying (fictional) potential death toll and media pressure to lock down.

Johnson suffered a failure of courage in the face of enemy fire. Johnson didn’t have the gumption to stick to his guns on herd immunity, realizing that he would be blamed if it turned out to be a disaster. As it’s become clearer that the disaster was never going to have happened, he’s been engaged in an ever more desperate and ever more disastrous attempt at arse-covering. The irony is that, in trying to avoid loss of popularity by being seen as the PM who let half a million people die, he’s ended up presiding over a far worse disaster than would ever actually have taken place in the first place. He’s mostly managed to hide from the blame for that so far, but he can’t forever.

85820 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to matt, #1115 of 1308 🔗

And France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany? All locked down because of Johnson’s lack of courage? It’s just not realistic. Much as we’d like someone to blame.

The fact is, we have found that governments across the world have overreacted to hysterical media and health professionals.

85842 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to WhyNow, 5, #1116 of 1308 🔗

Domino effect. China did it and the WHO said that was great and exactly the right response. The media narrative _everywhere_ became that it was the right thing to do. That’s why Conte did it. This strengthened the panic in Mass and Social Media and pressured subsequent governments in turn. It’s not just a failure on Johnson’s part but, I think, a sign of the failure of western civilization. We’ve allowed our cultures and our institutions to become tired and venal.

85894 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 3, #1117 of 1308 🔗

We followed all those countries into lockdown.
Covid was downgraded as a very serious disease in March.
The government knew the truth before lockdown.
It was a politcal decision not scientific.

86065 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, #1118 of 1308 🔗

I don’t think “everyone else was doing it” is a credible defence for the leader of a sovereign nation with an 80-seat majority and no looming election, politically or morally.

There are many to blame, but the political leaders of my country are top of my list, with regard to this country.

86164 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to WhyNow, #1119 of 1308 🔗

That doesn’t mean we had to be one of them.

85843 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 4, #1120 of 1308 🔗

I agree. It has been playschool throughout – no way to protect people from a deadly bio weapon. This is not how things are done under Bio Weapons. You don’t decree masks two weeks on Wednesday four months after the peak.

The same playschool we saw happen around the Skripal affair. Police at the edge of the cordon in normal uniform, PHE England telling the public to use baby wipes if needing to clean Novichock off skin and to double bag Novichock clothing then take to a laundrette for cleaning!

Also, corona/Covid19 was found in Spain (Barca?) in April 2019, elsewhere to if I remember correctly.

85885 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #1121 of 1308 🔗

I still remember 1960’s public information films in the cinema telling us to hide under the kitchen table in the event of a nuclear attack, usually got laughed at since we knew that wouldn’t do us any good.

86191 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to karenovirus, #1122 of 1308 🔗

A good place to be to kiss your arse goodbye though :o))

85876 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, #1123 of 1308 🔗

Medics definitely knew something was on it’s way a good two months before it arrived, not from DoH more likely international jungle drums on Doctor chat rooms.

86167 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #1124 of 1308 🔗

When I first heard that half million number of projected deaths I nearly died laughing. It was so utterly preposterous that I knew immediately it was a lie. Not a mistake, or a miscalculation, but a lie .

They were lying then, they are still lying now.

85871 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 4, #1125 of 1308 🔗

It was the government that instituted the lockdown despite the scientific advice.The sage minutes show that they were content to see the results of the social distancing measures,that had been introduced.
Lockdown was a political act.

85853 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Gillian, 1, #1126 of 1308 🔗

We seem to make a habit of this type of blame. The government is a total of 120 ministers, nominally in charge of public services. When things don’t go the way we want, we sack the 120 and get a different 120. Meanwhile, the public services carry on much as before, unelected and unaccountable.

Do you think the public health professionals and the BBC will be held accountable for the hysterical overreaction to a mild virus? No, I don’t either.

86070 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, #1127 of 1308 🔗

Do you think the public health professionals and the BBC will be held accountable for the hysterical overreaction to a mild virus? No, I don’t either.”

They should be. But the buck stops with the PM. Otherwise what’s the point of leaders? They are usually a disappointment, and we are all weak humans. But they sinned. It wasn’t and isn’t just a mistake. Even if you take the “following other countries” defence, you could choose to follow countries that appear now to be more pragmatic e.g. Italy.

86199 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #1128 of 1308 🔗

Or who have now ended their lockdown, eg Norway

85855 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Gillian, 1, #1129 of 1308 🔗

The amazing thing is that Boris and his henchmen are doing this sh*t to their own children and loved ones. Sure, they’ll not be troubled by extremes of unemployment, starvation, lack of medical care and so on, but nevertheless their lives are being ruined just like ours. As many of us have begun to realise, even a comfortable home can still be a prison if you can’t leave the house without encountering conflict and tyranny.

It’s the petty officials zealously doing the politicians’ bidding who are going to suffer most. They and their families are not in the same, privileged category as Boris and his many children. They won’t be able to get top notch dental treatment in a private, discreet clinic but will end up having their teeth pulled out alongside everyone else. They are doing this to themselves.

Teeth won’t matter soon, anyway. To keep everyone safe, liquid food will have to be consumed by straw through a small, safe, hole in the mask.

86052 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gillian, #1130 of 1308 🔗

Great comment. Should be circulated more widely!

85793 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 10, #1131 of 1308 🔗

Teachers Conspiracy

I wanted to mention this hearsay from a teacher friend who works in an academy whose CEO Head is a member of Gavin Williamson’s Headteacher Advisory Panel.
She told her staff in March April to massively overestimate grades because the Minister and the DFE did not know what they were doing and she felt they could force through estimated grades. So they did.

Honest teachers – you will now be judged failures and your pupils will look worse as a result.

85822 ▶▶ Basics, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #1132 of 1308 🔗

That Afvisory Panel would be like a Common Purpose picnic – the perfect positions to losd with NLP.

There’s an amount of distracting chaos to be realeased tomorrow to keep the braying masked mob amused for a further week or so. With the economic results today it feels like the propagandistas are going to work especially hard to keep the braying masked mob onside.

85794 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 25, #1133 of 1308 🔗

I can’t take much more of this shit. Almost every “fact” that comes from the media or politicians is a lie or distortion. Take this one from BBC:

“Coronavirus cases in France have nearly doubled in the past 24 hours as Prime Minister Jean Castex warned that the country had been going “the wrong way” for two weeks.”

A cursory glance at the data shows that the figure for the last 24 hours is actually the second lowest of the last seven days. Because Monday saw a large decrease they spin Tuesday’s figures as a huge increase. Not that the false positive count is of any import anyway.

Why is no one apart from us spotting this for themselves and why is this industrial-scale lying being permitted without challenge?

85797 ▶▶ Julian, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #1134 of 1308 🔗

False positives + positive tests probably from more testing, largely of the healthy. I wonder if the general public really believe that the “cases” quoted now are equivalent of the “cases” quoted while the curve was going up, when a fair few of those cases were actually rather ill. I like to think not.

85825 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #1135 of 1308 🔗

It’s the politicians’ desire to put the worst possible interpretation on the figures that baffles me.

85833 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, #1136 of 1308 🔗

Spreads the costs over larger numbers.

85981 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, #1137 of 1308 🔗

Well – if the truth was accepted, the rationale for all this nonsense, and the control that goes with it, would disappear.

85929 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #1138 of 1308 🔗

We on here obviously knew this was the only logical result of lockdowns, and that there is no logical way out without them admitting mistakes.

You lockdown, it stops it spreading so quickly, you relax measures, cases pop up a bit. Quelle surprise. If it’s been the wrong direction for 2 weeks, we should start seeing an increase in deaths for France… I won’t hold my breath.

As a cyclist, I’ll be bloody livid if they use these case increases to cancel the Tour de France for a 2nd time this year!! About the only sporting joy possible this year is watching the racing, after they absolutely destroyed football by banning any fans (why no one is querying why you can’t let 20,000 into a 60,000 capacity stadium at the very least is beyond me) and the twats in the UK have banned bike races I could actually take part in completely. The twits at my regular 5-a-side team are still terrified of returning – great way to get the nation healthy Boris – ban sporting competitions.

85962 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 2, #1139 of 1308 🔗

Regarding “ why no one is querying why you can’t let 20,000 into a 60,000 capacity stadium at the very least is beyond me”. I think this is down to the perceived issue of legal action in case there was an outbreak and it was linked back to them. My local non league side is the same, we only get 100-200 fans a game and the stadium could easily accommodate 2,000 but there is too high a risk to the club to re-open the gates in case an infection was linked to them.

Also, we did play a match a few weeks where fans were allowed because the oppositions ground was within a public park. You should’ve seen the backlash they got from the idiots on social media because fans were there, it was the usual “you’re killing people, “utter stupidity” “COVIDIOTS”, “here comes the second wave”, etc. There is some absolute idiots about and this country will never get back to normal as they are the voices that are being heard.

86041 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, #1140 of 1308 🔗

I’ve said before what is needed is a Covid indemnity all round, come to.our whatever at your own risk (with exceptions for recklessness by the providers), but that would require johnson to admit there was not much risk in the first place.

85796 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 45, #1141 of 1308 🔗


Johnson Boris

School report 2020

POLITICS: A very disappointing year. Boris has made very little effort in this department and in fact has been absent for most of the classes. If he is to improve on his poor showing, he needs to ensure that he ups his attendance rate to 100%. He has shown very little grasp of key issues such as conservatism and totalitarianism. Estimated grade:D

BIOLOGY:Boris has shown a total lack of knowledge and understanding of the human body. His work on the immune system was well below the standard expected at this stage of the course. He must not rely on others to provide him with answers but must engage in more thorough research on his own behalf. Estimated grade: E

STATISTICS: Boris’s grasp of the very basics of this subject is appalling. He still insists on using an abacus to work out complex mathematical processes with the result that outcomes are grossly exaggerated. Estimated grade:Unclassified

PSYCHOLOGY: Oh dear. Where do I start? Boris has shown very little understanding of the human psyche. He plays to the gallery too often during these classes and as a result has made some glaring errors in his assumptions. Much more critical thinking is required. Estimated grade E/F

ECONOMICS: Withdrawn from examination. This came as a shock to Boris who was under the impression that he was doing quite well in this subject. As his economics tutor, I beg to differ.

General comments.

Boris’s performance in all subjects has been woeful. We all had such high hopes for him in his early days at Westminster School for the Criminally Insane but sadly, those hopes have not been fulfilled. Boris needs to turn over a new leaf, rid his head of nonsense and not allow himself to be distracted by others.

B. Rexit. Headteacher.

85807 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Margaret, 5, #1142 of 1308 🔗

Brilliant Margaret! Should be sent to Westmonster.

Could you do one for Hancock’s Half Hour as well?

85808 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Margaret, 1, #1143 of 1308 🔗

Thanks Margaret – a wonderful start to the day that made Mrs BTL and I giggle 😊

85828 ▶▶ anon, replying to Margaret, #1144 of 1308 🔗

brilliant. provided a much needed chuckle!

85829 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, 3, #1145 of 1308 🔗

Best laugh of the day thank you Margaret.

Just as well the school does not grade P.E., his lack of effort is clear from his stature

85957 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1146 of 1308 🔗

Yes, it’s funny – but also with its serious undertones very true. Margaret has hit on something here.

He’s intellectually lazy – the absolute antithesis of a Churchill or Thatcher.

86033 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, 1, #1147 of 1308 🔗

That’s the reason it’s funny, dark humour hitting close to the bone.

86339 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to karenovirus, #1148 of 1308 🔗

Like most of the best humour.

I wonder whether that’s why Lockdown Zealots don’t do humour – they don’t like the truth, or at least subversive truth.

85834 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 3, #1149 of 1308 🔗

Send him on to the Fetida Dickhead University of Applied Fascism. Should do well there.

85849 ▶▶ Geraint, replying to Margaret, 7, #1150 of 1308 🔗

ENGLISH: Boris insists on twisting meanings of sentences and using illogical constructs to make points, that simply fail to stand up to even the most basic scrutiny. He needs to learn to construct an argument that holds water and be able to defend that in a coherent manner. Finally the use of obscure Latin quotes, picked for effect, is not necessary and is not an indication of intelligence.

85982 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, 2, #1151 of 1308 🔗

I think that with a report like this, expulsion is in order.

86062 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 1, #1152 of 1308 🔗


HISTORY: Boris has shown a clear lack of understanding of history. He has demonstrated a lack of nuance and awareness of the past and how it was different to the present. Focusing too much on Churchill but has failed to apply Churchillian ideas; has not paid attention to lessons about Chamberlain and Eden as well as Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Estimated grade: Massive Epic F

85817 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 9, #1153 of 1308 🔗

I’m going to the dentist this morning. A tooth fell out, probably due to having no red meat fed to me by this government. Organising it was like a Mormon applying for a job shagging the scientologist’s sacrificial goat. And £95 to be issued with a QR code to get through the locked door. Fucking insane. I hope they are prepared for mega piss-taking. I may have to be sedated.

85932 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James Leary #KBF, 8, #1154 of 1308 🔗

I just wrote to my dentist’s practice manager:

Thanks for the reply Karen,

I have sent a few in reply to your marketing mail-outs but this is a first reply I got.

I hope what I said isn’t going to “get me in trouble” but honestly I feel that the measures to control a virus are ridiculous in the extreme. I have no idea why dental practices in the UK and the BDA have not stood up to these incredible restrictions on how dentists operate let alone allow all dental practices to be shut down totally for 3 months.

This was nothing short of extremely cruel and very very damaging.

Especially as firstly SARS2-Cov is less dangerous than flu, it’s not the black death, most people who get “it” won’t even know they have it.  Hardly anybody in the UK has “it” now, we have reached “heard immunity”.

Of the unlucky few that do “catch it” a tiny proportion of them might feel slightly unwell, a smaller proportion of them might be substantially unwell but will recover with no problems with no medical intervention needed. Only a tiny proportion of people who contract SARS2Cov will actually need any kind of medical support and an even smaller number of them will die.

The numbers are in reality TINY. The ONS revised their data recently and only about 3700 people in the UK have died of SARS2Cov who had no co-morbidities since January until about July this year. The rest of the ONS and even the NHS data is ridiculous unreliable and cannot in any way be trusted in my opinion.

The way death certificates were completed gives huge scope for large errors in reporting the causes of death of people. This data is now under review by the government it is so badly collected. The PCR test is also ridiculously unreliable. The new “cases” being detected are probably false positives. If they are not false positives most people who test positive are free from any symptoms.

I feel it is important to resist “the new normal” it is clearly an insane response to a relatively harmless virus. People who “catch it” only have a 99.4% chance OF NOT DYING after all, just like it’s sister virus SARS1CoV. Which was actually a big non-event at the time.
I could post plenty of hard data here to back up what I am saying but there is so much of it I really can’t be bothered.

Unbiased facts about the SARS2CoV virus are very hard to find as just about everything that goes against “The Official Narrative” is being brutally censored.

However you might want to check out these few web sites to start with for more information. They are the best out there right now for unbiased facts about “The Virus”.


I will not wear a mask. It’s pointless and totally insane. A fabric face covering will do NOTHING to stop any kind of viral pathogen and the stupid masks people wear are almost as useless.

They are also bad for your health in many ways. I am willing to speculate that even now your practice will be seeing a raised level of bacterial mouth infections due to mask wearing. Obviously there is going to be a epidemic of bacterial throat and lung infections too.

If your practice manages adopt a less insane approach to patient care and can avoid treating all your patients like a bio-hazard then I will happily return for my check-ups and my hygienist treatment. Which incidentally is LONG over due now. I was supposed to attend in March. Thankfully I have no dental issues right now.

I really hope sanity will prevail and we can all “get back to normal” soon.

Yours Sincerely


85934 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1155 of 1308 🔗

Yes she is ACTUALLY called Karen. lol

85980 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, #1156 of 1308 🔗

honestly I was really hoping her name wasn’t Karen

great letter though

85941 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, #1157 of 1308 🔗

That will go way over Karen’s head but it’s a good summary of the main points, mind if I keep it for reference?

85985 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, #1158 of 1308 🔗


85818 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 11, #1159 of 1308 🔗

Even more worrying than the present Covid hysteria is the fact that the health guardians have now got their teeth into control of the public, and they will not let go.

There is never going to be an “It’s all over” moment. Governments have now accepted that they are responsible for ensuring that no-one ever gets ill, at any cost. After Covid, it will be the next “health emergency”. And why stop at health? We can have a food emergency (free school meals), an energy emergency (free heating), a jobs emergency (free jobs).

85850 ▶▶ Adam, replying to WhyNow, 6, #1160 of 1308 🔗

Agree. That is why I keep telling people that this government needs to be squarely and firmly removed from office at the next election to dissuade future governments from enacting similar measures in the future. Politicians need to know that they cannot do this to people with impunity, or it will happen again.

85857 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Adam, 4, #1161 of 1308 🔗

Replaced with what, there’s no Sceptic Churchill in view.

85863 ▶▶▶▶ Albie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1162 of 1308 🔗

I agree. Labour with the unions will be even worse. That said, I get the feeling Starmer may, just may, personally not be a bedwetter. At his first PMQ he immediately asked about lockdown exit strategy which most hysterics wouldn’t have dreamed of asking from their spot under the safety of their beds. I sensed he wanted to be more forthright about lockdown but with him being new to the job he didn’t want to irk Labour voters so soon. Especially as he’s trying to get Corbynites on board, they are the most pro-lockdown, tell us what to do, wear masks forever, of everyone.

85891 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Albie, 7, #1163 of 1308 🔗

Stop voting if there’s no acceptable choice
Spoiled ballot paper
Allow a freedom and truth loving party to emerge
Hitchens approach

85931 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 4, #1164 of 1308 🔗

SPOIL THEM BALLOTS, it’s the ONLY HOPE. They are counted.

85933 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1165 of 1308 🔗

Would be interesting if Spoiled Ballots got a majority at a by election

86076 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to karenovirus, #1166 of 1308 🔗

Exactly. It wouldn’t change the result, but would raise eyebrows concerning the legitimacy to govern.

85973 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, #1167 of 1308 🔗

… but don’t count. Keep real.

86030 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, #1168 of 1308 🔗

But the numbers are declared by the Returning Officer live on telly for all to see.

86075 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1169 of 1308 🔗

If you just want to replace the “Conservative” lockdowners with “Labour” lockdowners, Rick, just say so openly. I don’t think you are fooling anyone.

85901 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Albie, 3, #1170 of 1308 🔗

Is that the same Keir Starmer who was straight on his knee during the BLM protests?

86078 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1171 of 1308 🔗

Nobody in Parliament stood against this nonsense. None to trust in it, but who to trust out of it?

85908 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1172 of 1308 🔗

Don’t know. But we need to send out a strong, clear message to politicians at the next election not to do this to us again, otherwise they will. I intend to not vote — I shall ruin my ballot paper.

86081 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Adam, 1, #1173 of 1308 🔗

Dolan is the only hope here. If his appeal fails, then we now we live in a dictatorship, no matter how soft.

85971 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Adam, 2, #1174 of 1308 🔗

Since the opposition parties were absolutely complicit, in fact their main criticism throughout has always been “why not harder and faster?”, voting this party out and voting say Labour in would just be interpreted as approving of their criticism that the lockdown was correct but the implementation was bad/slow.

At the moment, the only option is not voting, which does not have no effect, but doesn’t have a strong, direct or immediate effect. Much better would be for parties to arise on the right of the “Conservative” Party and left of the “Labour” Party that actually meaningfully resist the establishment consensus. That will take time to develop, but if there were to be a drop off in support for the established (corrupt) Blairite parties then new parties would arise to fill the vacuum.

However, remember we (sceptics) are a tiny minority, so straightforward democratic action is not a solution for us at the moment anyway. We would have to first increase our numbers by education and campaigning, and second act as minority lobby groups do to leverage the influence we can bring to bear.

85896 ▶▶ Basics, replying to WhyNow, 1, #1175 of 1308 🔗

Public Health has been prepped for years to be put into this position of being all powerful. The emergency bill confers some constable powers to selected public health professionals. Public health is not a profession to be trusted.

The Dutch police have been in touch with police scotland under an international effort to learn best practice for policing public health. This has 15 or so nations involved in the project.

85939 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #1176 of 1308 🔗

SAGE should be renamed
The Committee of Public Safety

86087 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to karenovirus, #1177 of 1308 🔗

Politburo more like.

85923 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to WhyNow, 1, #1178 of 1308 🔗

They’ve realised that everyone will just happily die at home to keep the hospitals nice and empty for “emergencies”, so they will definitely want to keep it going.

85823 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 3, #1179 of 1308 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53741851 Stockholm and London are similar despite London lockdown and Stockholm not

85830 ▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, 2, #1180 of 1308 🔗

Big surprise.

85835 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to p02099003, 4, #1181 of 1308 🔗

I suppose this is as close as we’ll get at the present time to the BBC admitting that the Swedish strategy didn’t result in masses of deaths and actually wasn’t that bad at all. However the tone of the article still seems cautious and implies that the UK did the right thing by going into lockdown instead of pursuing the herd immunity strategy. Also disappointing last paragraph – ‘The research suggests the Swedish strategy failed to generate widespread protective immunity‘ – and nothing on T-cell immunity.

85859 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Poppy, 5, #1182 of 1308 🔗

I wouldn’t be surprised if that nonsense was written with a crayon.

85836 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to p02099003, 3, #1183 of 1308 🔗

This is important as it relates to wearing masks and things like that. Masks may help reduce the spray of droplets but that is very different than saying that masks reduce the spread of a virus in the population (which is the reason you wear it).

Systematic risk compensation in multi-variate systems. A very real reality that sadly does not fit into the simple cause-effect way of thinking.

Best expressed by someone trying to get fit and walk more, taking the lift to a floor that sells Stairmasters.

Or going outside for a smoke while wearing a mask.

Compensation of risk in one thing often causes loosening in another

85852 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mhcp, 3, #1184 of 1308 🔗

Read somewhere @LS that with a mask droplets get expelled sideways from the mask which is why surgeons face directly at the patient if they cough or sneeze.
Not much help to those alongside.

85861 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1185 of 1308 🔗

Yes. The micro aerosols go out the side then hang in the air. The greater risk is contact and in fact what is lovingly called the oral-fecal route.

So if a mask causes you to touch your face more then transmission by contact goes up.

Of course these are small probabilities and there are other ways for you to become infected.

The general principle is that unless you have characterised a system you can’t predict impacts of onw thing as systems organise based on efficiency. Plus your model of the world is limited and gives rise to Black Swans.

85870 ▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1186 of 1308 🔗

Of course. Otherwise they would blow up and go down like a balloon as you breathe.

85877 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1187 of 1308 🔗

It’s not just that but as you breath the trapped particles soak into the mask and eventually find their way onto the surface of the mask. At that point every time you exhale you spread whatever was previously on the surface of the mask.

85883 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 11, #1188 of 1308 🔗

Masks are essential to save lives. And it’s so easy! You can just wear it under your chin, or even hung from one ear and it still works! I’m pretty sure you can just have it in your pocket, too, but that might only be from the 8th of August. And those people that don’t wear masks, and haven’t done since lockdown started, well they will surely die anyday now…

85888 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #1189 of 1308 🔗


Masks are essential to save lives when mandated . Otherwise saving lives is optional.

85892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #1190 of 1308 🔗

No, no, you’ve misunderstood. The timing of the mask mandate is absolutely critical. In order for masks to be effective, they must be compulsory and the mandate must come in at the precise moment when virtually nobody has the virus and just before the weather starts to get hot again. Preferably it should also happen at the exact moment that people are starting to spend money on shops again.

85900 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, 5, #1191 of 1308 🔗

It’s very technical, isn’t it? I don’t think we are meant to understand, really. I’m just glad our government are doing the right thing and keeping us safe.

85928 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mhcp, 1, #1192 of 1308 🔗

Smoking through a mask MIGHT help a bit with Lung Cancer

85950 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mhcp, 7, #1193 of 1308 🔗

Yes, risk compensation and transmission complexities do make the whole idea of mask wearing to reduce spread probably nonsense. Though as we’ve discussed here before, it would arguably be worse if they do have any effect in reducing transmission, because that would mean reducing our collective immune system effectiveness against not just this latest coronavirus, but all respiratory diseases, meaning all such diseases would become less prevalent, but much nastier when caught. Ultimately, we could end up with a self-fulfilling situation where the obsessive avoidance of low level diseases makes those diseases dangerous enough that it makes sense to avoid them.

The result of that would be that we would finally fully become a society in which hygiene obsession and contact avoidance would be everywhere, and a whole raft of ordinary coughs, colds and sneezes would be fully medicalised, with drugs and vaccines used on a much wider basis to deal with them.

A conspiracy theorist could see in that sufficient cui bono to hypothesise a big money conspiracy, I suppose.

And of course a future new coronavirus or other kind of respiratory virus that arises will then cause real devastation until drugs or vaccines were developed to control it, because we would have sabotaged the main thing that prevented this one from being a real problem (response aside). We would in effect have created the conditions for a real respiratory pandemic disaster out of fear of a fantasy one.

86007 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mark, 2, #1194 of 1308 🔗

Maybe. But then you often get a flu virus from yourself not from others. You carry around dormant viruses all year then you give yourself a stress event, or due to the weather, experience one. You get sick as your body deals with that without keeping the virus in check. It’s the germ versus the terrain argument.

We walk around with Strep everyday but don’t often get a sore throat.

So I don’t think we are going to be reducing virus “transmission” or produce more deadly viruses just yet. There’s too many transmission vectors and way to get ill.

86010 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mhcp, #1195 of 1308 🔗

‘Dormant viruses ‘. Would that explain the recently discussed episodes where people isolated for weeks on end (ice stations/ships) suddenly find themselves infected ?

85848 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to p02099003, 1, #1196 of 1308 🔗

And on the telly/radio version in pained surprise “despite lockdown !?”

85860 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1197 of 1308 🔗

The amazing thing is they think the data is negative when it actually shows, as does the evidence of a swifter drop off in infections in the capital, that London has already achieved herd immunity, just like Stockholm…

85919 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1198 of 1308 🔗

It’ll be the covidiots what done it, all that sitting on beaches, we told you so.

85924 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1199 of 1308 🔗

But not the peaceful BLM protesters, obviously.

85954 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1200 of 1308 🔗

I believe “mostly peaceful” is the Official Truth position, citizen. Report to your nearest BBC reeducation camp for a Doctrine Refreshment course.

86013 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, #1201 of 1308 🔗

The Ministry of Truth have cancelled ‘mostly’, report yourself Citizen

85867 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to p02099003, 4, #1202 of 1308 🔗

Sort of not bad for the beeb although I’d hardly say that the Swedish strategy was to let the virus “sweep” through the population.

Of course they’re deliberately coming at it backwards. Implying Sweden have failed because their antibody levels aren’t higher than London, rather than directly admitting that lockdown made no difference.

And they still don’t seem to have heard of T cells.

85963 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1203 of 1308 🔗

Patent distortion and arse-about-tit logic, as you say. The general standard of BBC journalism is appalling – apart from Deborah Cohen (?). They simply peddle the preconceived line without any attempt to go and do some basic invesitigative journalism.

Anyone who reports on the subject of immunity at this time without discussing the T-cell factor is, quite frankly, not worth their pay in bent washers. Similarly the tendency to cover up the hard data on Sweden’s relative success without general lock-up and masks.

86020 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 1, #1204 of 1308 🔗

They.must know that come January they won’t be able to hide the, probable,
fact that overall mortality for this year will be much the same as usual (apart from the suicides and domestic abuse murders)

86027 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #1205 of 1308 🔗

Cohen has been pretty solid.

85873 ▶▶ stewart, replying to p02099003, 7, #1206 of 1308 🔗

I wonder if the government oil tanker is finally turning.

Trump’s press conference yesterday was very interesting. In very clear terms said 3 very interesting things:

  1. He emphasised the protection of the elderly
  2. He suggested that evidence showed the US was building its immunity
  3. He said that the medical profession now had a range of effective therapies against the virus.

I don’t want to get too hopeful, but it seems as if we are finally beginning to come around to the Swedish approach.

Unfortunately, even if true, it will be slow and the back track on masks will be even slower as they won’t want to admit they were wrong on everything.

85986 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stewart, 4, #1207 of 1308 🔗

This will likely coincide with the appointment of Dr Scott Atlas to lead the health response, someone who doesn’t prescribe to the mainstream lockdown narrative.


85874 ▶▶ guy153, replying to p02099003, 3, #1208 of 1308 🔗

So after repeating the usual half-truths and myths about immunity they end with a quote from some idiot completely unrelated to the story:

“The research suggests the Swedish strategy failed to generate widespread protective immunity, said Dr Simon Clarke of the University of Reading, who is not connected to the study.”

The torrent of illogic is most amusing. So he’s saying if you don’t lockdown you don’t get herd immunity anyway? Never mind that this isn’t even wrong, if it were somehow true then why did we need a lockdown?

85913 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to guy153, #1209 of 1308 🔗

Because this one goes up to 11

85964 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 1, #1210 of 1308 🔗

Fatal illogic : alleged antibodies = immunity.

86005 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to guy153, 1, #1211 of 1308 🔗

Such nonsense – lets think of silly reasons (i.e no herd immunity) to bash Sweden. Early on, think it was an Israeli group predicted that Covid-19 will behave exactly like other new virus outbreaks – high infection rates then it burns out

86024 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Victoria, -1, #1212 of 1308 🔗

Israel, almost as bad as Donald man

86028 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to guy153, #1213 of 1308 🔗

Let’s get on there and fill the comments section up

85889 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to p02099003, 8, #1214 of 1308 🔗

Surprised BBC covering it at all, however the article is of course trying to paint Sweden in the worst possible light, as always pretending like it *must* be compared to Nordic neighbours instead of vs others, and picking which types of numbers to use, and failing to point out Sweden now has no excess deaths for time of year vs their average…

“In the UK, more than 46,500 people have died in a country of more than 66 million.
In Sweden, there have been more than 5,500 deaths in a country of 10 million, which is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations.”

Typical BBC fear-spin on what _should_ be a positive conclusion of how Sweden has performed – no acknolwedgement of lack of deaths in general population, choosing to count deaths vs size, then making that negative, failing to point out how the % anti bodies was from April, rather than up to date, no mention t-cells…. basically another attempt to discredit Sweden, tho at least they’re finding it harder to do.

85911 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark II, 2, #1215 of 1308 🔗

Comparisons with other countries are mostly meaningless. However specifically with the Nordics, a comparison is only meaningful if we know what Sweden’s result would have been if they locked down like the other countries or the other countries didn’t lock down like Sweden.

Sweden may well have ended up with a similar number of deaths had they locked down. Unless we know this then comparison with other countries that took a totally different path are useless.

85922 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1216 of 1308 🔗

Precisely, the only thing we do know based on real life data is that Sweden did no worse than many countries that did lockdown, in terms of deaths, and that in order to achieve that they didnt trash their economy and abandon all sense and all personal freedoms that I previously thought everyone valued highly.

85970 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 4, #1217 of 1308 🔗

failing to point out Sweden now has no excess deaths for time of year vs their average…”

… and that in terms of all-cause mortality (the only stable indicator), Sweden does as well as Finland and Denmark in terms of deaths per million.

The BBC is now operating at the level of the tabloid press.

85949 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 1, #1218 of 1308 🔗

London and Stockholm/ England and Sweden are not in the least bit similar when you dig into the figures.

85856 Adam, replying to Adam, 17, #1219 of 1308 🔗

Well thank you very much to the selfish lockdown zealots and bedwetters: we are now officially in recession!! Part of me hope it hurts, because the zealots and bedwetters deserve the pain for their stupidity — I’ll reserve all my sympathy for the sceptics who are the collateral damage in the coronapanic.

85920 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Adam, 7, #1220 of 1308 🔗

Depression, it’s a greater than 10% decline.

86071 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Adam, #1221 of 1308 🔗

They will do a U turn once they’re hit in the pocket and stomach – redundancy, bankruptcy, unable to find jobs and for those rich pensioners their pensions being raided through tax and the abolition of the triple lock.

85868 Sam Vimes, 12, #1222 of 1308 🔗

Seems Morrison’s Cafe is doing the 50% deal every day of the week. The increased footfall, combined with ‘mask on to walk into the store – mask off to go into cafe – mask back on to leave cafe’ shenanigans should be interesting for the sheep. Plus, snot rags on tables, which are of course not a health risk, when compared to The Deadly Virus ™.

85887 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 11, #1223 of 1308 🔗

As I write this I am listening to Carl Heneghan on the radio 4 More or Less programme, brilliant, a must listen https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000llw2 Should be compulsory listening for the Government, SAGE etc. More or less seems to be the only BBC programme that come closest to critically examining Covid hoo-haa.

85895 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1224 of 1308 🔗

Thanks for the tip – I’ll listen to later using my iPad. Right now I’m going off for a plod – but not in Martindale Mr Martindale – such a fondly remembered images comes to mind when I think of the place – the old church and the reading room. I hope you’ve been there yourself?

85914 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1225 of 1308 🔗

Thanks, been there several times and signed the book – great place.

85893 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1226 of 1308 🔗


From NZ.Saint Jacinda to blame frozen food like China?But more cases coming?

“We know the virus can survive within refrigerated environments for quite some time,” Bloomfield told a media conference. In Auckland, authorities are testing a cold storage unit where one of the infected family members worked for the virus(??).
The city—the largest city in New Zealand—is under a “level 3” lockdown, requiring people to stay home except for essential trips, while officials attempt to trace the virus.
Members of the infected family had traveled to a local tourist site and another member had gone to work, where other staff are now showing symptoms”

85898 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1227 of 1308 🔗

Let’s be like Dick Dastardly and Muttley…

86042 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, #1228 of 1308 🔗

Trouble is, Klunk is the Prime Minister.

85909 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1229 of 1308 🔗

They seem to clutch at any straw to maintain the lie and keep in power. Its winter in New Zealand so its the colds and flu season too, they’ll keep this going for some time!

86482 ▶▶ Lili, replying to swedenborg, #1230 of 1308 🔗

“We know the virus can survive within refrigerated environments for quite some time,” Is this another warming up exercise for the ‘muzzles outside at all times’ diktat coming down the wire when the weather gets colder?

85904 Little Red Hen, replying to Little Red Hen, 34, #1231 of 1308 🔗

Some sweaty interfering idiot used the ‘mask = seatbelt’ analogy towards my bare face yesterday.
I looked at their damp, cotton rag and asked to see its MOT equivalent.
They looked (I think they looked) supercilious and so I asked again if they had a certificate proving the efficacy and safety of their handmade face-nappy, like I received annually for my car’s seat belts.
They drifted off, pulling at their sweaty face nappy and then, horror!, pulling their sweaty pants out of their sweaty buttocks. I called after them, ‘Lovely! Your hygiene levels are up their with my neighbour’s fox-poo-rolling dog. But at least he doesn’t demand I join in!!’

Happy sweaty Wednesday folks. The Masked Morons are really suffering. Hooray! Thank you God…! 😁

85906 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Little Red Hen, 9, #1232 of 1308 🔗

The sweaty hypoxic idiots

85915 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Little Red Hen, 6, #1233 of 1308 🔗

Any more ‘accessible’ word for Petri Dish ?

85925 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to karenovirus, 7, #1234 of 1308 🔗

We call them ‘Petri-masks’ in our house….amongst other less scientific / more abusive things…

85927 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1235 of 1308 🔗

I think petri dish is an excellent comparison with face nappies.

85930 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #1236 of 1308 🔗

But the great unwashed don’t know what a petri dish is, ‘germ farm’s perhaps.

86022 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1237 of 1308 🔗

‘germ flannel’ perhaps?

85936 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1238 of 1308 🔗

The sheep would understand ‘test tube’ better. Still a bit clangy.

85935 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #1239 of 1308 🔗

Nice one!

85959 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #1240 of 1308 🔗

Good thinking on the spot, delivering that v effective riposte! Sort of thing I would think of two minutes after the altercation ended!!

85969 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to OKUK, 4, #1241 of 1308 🔗

Ahhhh… but have you been honing your ‘riposte’ skills with acerbic, sceptical, judgemental and quick-witted teenage children?
I have.
For years.
They do not give any quarter….

(I do love them. Mostly…)

86008 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Little Red Hen, 1, #1242 of 1308 🔗

Plus you can always use your teenagers to practise self-defense, pain compliance, maiming, etc. 🙂

85972 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Little Red Hen, 5, #1243 of 1308 🔗

Give me a fox poo rolling dog instead of most humans any day !.

86072 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Little Red Hen, #1244 of 1308 🔗

Well done!!!

85916 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 19, #1245 of 1308 🔗

For those reading this who are Christians and are wondering whether their churches have reacted correctly to the government edict, you should read this by Joe Boot of the Ezra Institute:


Here is a quote:

What has become even clearer in recent months is that we are entering an era (likely protracted) of struggle for the freedom of the church in Britain, not just with the state and its bureaucracy, but with Christian leaders themselves, some of whom are emerging as committed apologists for the secular state and its egalitarian agenda ………. There has never been a shortage of cultural leaders ready to support and advise falling down before the image of the absolutist state when the music plays – to obey the state without question – it is always the Daniels and his three friends ready to pray despite the king’s edict, or refusing to bow down to overreaching political power, who are in short supply. Tyranny frequently wears the smiling face of public health and safety, and always claims to be in the best interest of ‘the people,’ which makes the complacent, indolent and cavalier attitude of some Christian leaders regarding church closures incomprehensible.

85917 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Basileus, 11, #1246 of 1308 🔗

I’m not religious at all, but we can all get on board with that message, perfectly articulated.

85937 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Basileus, 2, #1247 of 1308 🔗

Thanks, Basileus. A sobering message, which I have shared further.

85938 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Basileus, 2, #1248 of 1308 🔗

I read it yesterday. It is truly excellent.

85945 ▶▶ ChrisW, replying to Basileus, #1249 of 1308 🔗

Good discussion on the same subject here:


86002 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basileus, 1, #1250 of 1308 🔗

Post C of E but I remember enough to take that on board. We need more Onward Christian Soldiers like him.

86064 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Basileus, #1251 of 1308 🔗

Yes, I’ve been in touch with Christian Concern to thank them for their stance and for Joe Boot’s articles. Some in the independent body that I belong to seem to be going down the secular state apologists route. I’m in the process of writing a blog in response to it. It all sounds very good, with Romans 13:1 ‘ Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.’ being used to support the argument to do what the government says, which under normal circumstances I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with. However, we are not in normal circumstances and I think that Romans 13 is being used to hide behind and is being used to conceal passive acceptance of what is going on and a lack of courage to stand up for the truth and the well being of church members, namely telling them they don’t need to be so afraid or adjust their lifestyles so much.

85918 Brian, 10, #1252 of 1308 🔗

Foundation Furniture Ltd in Bridgend has gone into administration
under Price waterhouse Coopers they have started laying of people. Beginning with 40 choosing those not entitled to redundancy money. I know two of them but they will not be showing up on the unemployment or universal credit statistics as they are returning to there native Romania. The loss from spending from all the immigrants that return home will effect the economy. I would not be surprised if the expensive furniture making equipment will be asset stripped and the welsh grants written off. As happened when the mines were closed in Wales. After the 2008 crash the banks started recalling in loans and putting in financial advisors and auditors that asset stripped many previously going concerns. Where there’s muck there’s money.

85942 swedenborg, 3, #1253 of 1308 🔗

M Gabriela M Gomes .
One  of the scientists involved in the immunity of C-19
Very sensible twitter thread about C-19 pandemic and immunity and our response


85947 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #1254 of 1308 🔗

This is real not satire


Golf: Masks worn by athletes at all times, except when taking a shot. Use of hand sanitizer recommended before and after each hole and after a round and when going out to, and coming in from, the course. Masks must be worn on bus at all times to/from events

 So we’re looking at players potentially taking off and putting on their mask 70-100 times per 18 holes? That seems way more unsanitary and unsafe than just allowing them to golf unmasked considering it’s outdoors and they’re adolescents

85978 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1255 of 1308 🔗

My belief is that masks have have been enforced to increase infections, not reduce them. From wearing one, and my observations of other shows that you touch your face multiple times when wearing one, putting on, and taking off, so whatever is on your hands will eventually make it’s way into your eyes, nose or mouth.

It’s a backdoor way of obtaining herd immunity.

85983 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 3, #1256 of 1308 🔗

I have a feeling you rar right about this, either that or its something way more sinister.

85992 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1257 of 1308 🔗

the psychological impacts of being muzzled seems to be lost on the masses

servitude, dehumanisation and all out submission to a defunct and sick state come to mind

how is this lost on people EVEN with the propaganda I just cannot fathom

86001 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to anon, 4, #1258 of 1308 🔗

Makes some people think they are helping humanity, some feel morally superior, others think it makes them safe and anyway its compulsory innit.

85999 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 3, #1259 of 1308 🔗

I’ve thought it was to deliberately cause infections that could be presented as the elusive Second Wave.
Your suggestion that it’s a ‘backdoor way to obtaining herd immunity’ is interesting, shows the contempt in which they hold us but at least it’s not so cynical.

85996 ▶▶ hat man, replying to swedenborg, #1260 of 1308 🔗

You are, if you’re in the USA. Worth mentioning

85951 annie, replying to annie, 18, #1261 of 1308 🔗

Masked vampire warning to shoppers

Compulsory mask wearing is proving a boon to Britain’s vampire community, Tanith Nonose of the Ministry of Disinformation and State Covid Terrorism revealed yesterday.

‘The mask makes it impossible to identify vampires from their most distinguishing characteristics – their teeth – and that is making it easy for them to prey on the rest of the population’, said Ms Nonose.

‘We estimate that about 25% of the people in supermarkets are vampires, and the numbers are rising exponentially with each fresh vampire attack. And they may be lurking anywhere in the store. Don’t count on them hanging around the fresh meat counter: we know they are causing confusion by pretending to examine free-from and even Vegan products.’

What can we do to protect ourselves?

‘It is essential to keep away from other masked shoppers. If any masked shopper approaches within ten metres of you, scream blue murder. Always hang a string of raw garlic round your neck before setting out for the shops. And always keep a stake and mallet handy.’

What about crucifixes?

‘Don’t make me laugh. The Church and all its symbols lost their power as soon as the bishops started licking our lockdown arses.’

. What if somebody else thinks I am a vampire and screams blue murder?

‘Take your mask off. Don’t worry, you’ll be quite safe from Covid. We all know that masks are entirely useless against Covid anyway; we only make you wear them so as to keep you nice and terrified.’

Can I get Covid from a vampire bite?

There’s no evidence, but probably yes. In any case, if you die from a vampire bite or anything else, you will be put down as a Covid death anyway, so what the f..k?

85966 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to annie, 1, #1262 of 1308 🔗

Please send that to a radio or tv station! 😂

85968 ▶▶ Paul, replying to annie, 2, #1263 of 1308 🔗

Oh dear Annie,as if we didn’t have enough to worry about !.Does that mean 74% are the walking dead and 1% are us,the normals,survivors of the apocalypse ?.

85977 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to annie, 3, #1264 of 1308 🔗

Apparently COVID19 causes the blood to clot around the lungs so fangs may become useless as feeding off an infected victim would be more like eating a black pudding than drinking a Bloody Mary.

Fangs but not fangs.

85994 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #1265 of 1308 🔗

Brilliant Annie, I’m tempted to visit a joke shop to get some Dracula Fangs with which to startle ‘no mask’ would be shamers.

85952 tonys, replying to tonys, 26, #1266 of 1308 🔗

Getting mightily sick of tv presenters getting snarky about job losses and our shiny new recession, do they think they bear no responsibility for spreading the fear that caused this catastrophe on us in the first place? They are truly despicable people, many of them may well personable in their daily lives but collectively they are part of a machine responsible for thousands of deaths. The ‘banality of evil’ exemplified.

85956 ▶▶ Paul, replying to tonys, 7, #1267 of 1308 🔗

I hate every last one of them with their smug,patronising,’we’re just like you’ attitudes.
The frightening thing is that most people seem to love them !,morons.

85967 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to tonys, 7, #1268 of 1308 🔗

Couldn’t agree more! If they were an arsonist they would be saying: “It’s not my fault. I only lit the match. I wasn’t there when the house burned down. “

85988 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to tonys, 1, #1269 of 1308 🔗

Bad enough hearing them smarming on the radio but, not having a telly, I don’t have to see them at it.

85989 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to tonys, 6, #1270 of 1308 🔗

Could not agree more. From their comfortable secure jobs they create mayhem, and revel in the disaster that results.

85953 Little Red Hen, replying to Little Red Hen, 11, #1271 of 1308 🔗

This is from my daughter’s school. It is in their FAQs about the return to school in September. It’s very sensible.
The bit below it worries me though – the peer pressure can be huge in secondary schools.
I shall reserve judgement until September and my daughter tells me how it’s actually going. Then I will find out whether the teachers are logical adults or whinging windbags…

“Public Health England does not (based on current evidence) recommend the use of face coverings in schools. This evidence will be kept under review. They are not required in schools as pupils and staff are mixing in consistent groups, and because misuse may inadvertently increase the risk of transmission. There may also be negative effects on communication and thus education.”

Based on this guidance, students do not need to wear a face mask. However, they are welcome to do so if they wish.

85961 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #1272 of 1308 🔗

You can see where this is going and what the reality will be,if the teenagers around here are a measure to go by then it will be muzzles for everyone.

85975 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Paul, 5, #1273 of 1308 🔗

That is my worry too.
Mine will hold their own but the other pupils don’t necessarily come from naturally disobedient households such as mine.
If there is peer pressure, I will a make it a big issue with the head & governors. It will be a case of bullying / discrimination. Hard for a school to defend.

86473 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Paul, #1274 of 1308 🔗

Exemptions can be downloaded from everywhere. And you can google pictures of slaves in masks from the 19thC – that should put them off.

85984 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Little Red Hen, #1275 of 1308 🔗

I imagine that “the usual boys” will have a new game of whipping off the girls masks in the playground, and the sissy boys, leaving them weeping on the asphalt.

86017 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1276 of 1308 🔗

Georgie Porgy, pudding and pie
Stole girls’ masks and made them cry;
When the boys came out to play
He stole theirs too, he’s funny that way.

85958 swedenborg, 2, #1277 of 1308 🔗

Predicting the Trajectory of Any COVID19 Epidemic From the Best Straight Line


This is Michael Levitt preprint 30th June. For the mathematicians to judge.

85974 swedenborg, 3, #1278 of 1308 🔗


Interesting article about BCG vaccination booster before the C-19 outbreak in UAE

Results: 71 subjects received the booster vaccination. This group had zero cases of positive COVID 19 infection. 209 subjects did not receive the vaccination, with 18 positive PCR confirmed COVID 19 cases The infection rate in the unvaccinated group was 8.6% versus zero in the booster vaccinated group. (Fishers exact test p-value=0.004)

Conclusion : Our findings demonstrated the potential effectiveness of the booster BCG vaccine, specifically the booster in preventing Covid-19 infections in an elevated-risk healthcare population.

85976 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1279 of 1308 🔗

Our plane is on the move again, right now…

85987 ▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, #1280 of 1308 🔗

wth are they up to?

85991 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to anon, 2, #1281 of 1308 🔗

Its just landed Doncaster after doing a loop of Grantham.

Seriously does anybody know of Grantham’s CCTV status? Does it have WORKING CCTV?

85995 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1282 of 1308 🔗

fully working when there aren’t any trrrrrist atax happening as far as I know

86014 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Two-Six, #1283 of 1308 🔗

The CCTV is a moot point here,they claim it works 24/7 but a few incidents over the years have proved this not to be true.

86011 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to anon, 2, #1284 of 1308 🔗

Probably just surveying for mass grave sites. Second wave and all that.

86471 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to anon, #1285 of 1308 🔗

Bringing in more of the migrant army?

86012 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1286 of 1308 🔗

I thought I heard it earlier,it might have scuttled off as a thunderstorm was approaching from the south,it missed us though.
It is starting to unnerve me a bit,I’ve never seen a plane doing this before,even the military aircraft around here get fed-up after a couple of passes !.

85993 Will, replying to Will, 15, #1287 of 1308 🔗

Headline in the Telegraph saying 9/10 pubs are not observing the ludicrous rules and guidelines yet, remarkably there has been no increase in calls to 999 or 111, no increase in pillar 1 positive tests, no increase in hospital admissions and hardly any increase in actual cases after 6 weeks of pubs being open. If a scientist was observing the data they might say the rules appear to be a touch pointless!?!?

86000 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Will, 2, #1288 of 1308 🔗

This sounds like it may be based on the Sky News covert operation that found 9/10 pubs didn’t ask for peoples personal details.

86009 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1289 of 1308 🔗

Only been asked at one pub. Wrote down D. Duck and gave our childhood phone number

86003 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Will, 3, #1290 of 1308 🔗

The scientists and establishment really seem to resent seeing people not acting like slaves to the state and enjoying themselves. Every sunny weekend they moan about beach goers. It is going to be a harsh miserable winter if we don’t reduce the influence of these people. Look forward to Australian police state tactics.

86045 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Will, 1, #1291 of 1308 🔗

It depends who the scientist works for! If they work for the government they’d just ignore the objective evidence.

86015 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, #1292 of 1308 🔗


This just published Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine article questions Sweden’s strategy.They are still requiring 60 % herd immunity

Four months into the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden’s prized herd immunity is nowhere in sight

86016 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1293 of 1308 🔗

How do they explain the fact that Sweden is largely open for business and deaths and cases are largely gone?

86055 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Julian, 2, #1294 of 1308 🔗

They can’t explain that.They can’t even explain that when a pandemic peters out by definition herd immunity must have been reached .That doesn’t exclude a second wave later when more elderly non-immune have been accumulated.But to say they have not reached herdimmunity when the pandemic has died down is a contradiction.Crazy to say 60% nobody knows but the pandemic has gone some form of stable immunity has been reached whatever our limited tests tell us.

86018 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 9, #1295 of 1308 🔗

I believe there is a globalist agenda led by the WEF (aka Davos) which includes, of course, Big Pharma. They stand to make millions, perhaps trillions of dollars from a global vaccine programme. But the virus is dying too soon, so they have to keep up the fear and keep us subdued and compliant, hence the mask edicts (mind control). The masks, like the scaremongering, social distancing and clapping is a sophisticated system of mind control. We are being conditioned to accept more and more authority and less and less civil liberties. It may have started as a virus and public health thing, but it’s no longer about that. It’s about central government control.

I think Johnson is being manipulated. He and his Ministers are too naive and stupid to come up with a plot like this. I hear people say that they are disappointed in BoJo and expected him to have a pair of balls. He never, ever did. He’s an empty vessel, a very good example of politicians controlled by the State, Civil Service etc. May, Cameron and Major are other good examples of puppets, but Boris is in a class of his own.

God help us.

86044 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to flyingjohn, #1296 of 1308 🔗

Not manipulated, but paid off

86053 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Victoria, 1, #1297 of 1308 🔗

or blackmailed if need be

especially when they go too far

even for the corrupt scoundrels in charge

86046 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to flyingjohn, 3, #1298 of 1308 🔗

Just remember “The May Bot”‘. Look how she was totally neutered, powerless, absolutely useless as a PM. Doing what she was told, saying what she was told to say, every day for years.

86050 ▶▶ RickH, replying to flyingjohn, 3, #1299 of 1308 🔗

I think that’s a fair summary – although there are overlapping areas and levels in any explanation.

I have always been suspicious of simplistic ‘conspiracy’ – type explanations for social/political phenomenon. But, as I say to those who are equally suspicious of conspiracists, reduce the explanation to :

  • “Cui bono?” and ‘Follow the money.”

… and you have a much less weird category of explanation.

The Sherlock Holmes saw :”When you have eliminated the impossible, what is left, no matter how improbable, is the solution” is always a good guide, too.

… and the interest and influence of big global money – Pharma, Technology and Data, Finance – certainly provides a part of any explanation – especially when you check out networks and histories.

Then you have the lower level stuff – compliance, self-importance, social status, power – and sheer stupidity – operating in various spheres.

Then , of course – sheer group think amongst pretty mediocre political brains, jerked around like puppets, that have never seen any wider context or vision.

The phrase ‘the banality of evil’ seems entirely appropriate

86066 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to flyingjohn, 1, #1300 of 1308 🔗

Definitely can see Big Pharma keen on this with all the money to be made from a vaccine… however, if they kill the golden goose that’s going to pay for it in the process (global recession rapidly approaching) they may have shot themselves in the foot.

86026 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, #1301 of 1308 🔗

Looks like another one joining Yorkshire Tea in committing corporate suicide by going woke:


BTW, Yorkshire Tea in Morrisons with 50% extra in large pack going for around a fiver.

86035 ▶▶ anon, replying to Bart Simpson, #1302 of 1308 🔗

what did Yorkshire tea do?

(guessing this is where, ‘get woke go broke’ comes from? hadn’t figured out what that meant so far..)

86141 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to anon, #1303 of 1308 🔗

They said on their Twitter account that those who don’t support BLM shouldn’t be drinking their tea.

86502 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bart Simpson, #1304 of 1308 🔗

Oh dear. Have they seen the film of George Floyd’s arrest?



86049 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 7, #1305 of 1308 🔗

This lockdown is a system failure across the world. The ingredients are:

  • natural human fear of disease
  • a very large industry of health professionals, across the world, who see their role as guardians of public health, not administering to individual need – e.g. clean water, vaccination programmes, contraceptives, HIV programmes
  • a malevolent manipulative media
  • magic money.

We have always accepted a world where elderly people get infections and they die. Now, suddenly, we are supposed to stop our normal activity so that no-one dies.

It is as clear as daylight that the vast majority of cases were likely to happen from one form of infection or another. That’s what elderly people die of: sepsis, bacterial infections, pneumonia, flu.

Even with the rare cases of children and younger adults, it is not at all clear that this is more than the usual random noise in any sample.

If we don’t turn this around, it won’t stop at Covid. After this, the public guardians will be on to the next “emergency”.

86063 ▶▶ Mark, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1306 of 1308 🔗

For some reason you forgot “cowardly, incompetent, cynical politicians prepared to lie to and manipulate their nation’s population”.

Is there a reason you seem here to systematically try to protect the leaders from responsibility for their decisions?

86090 mjr, replying to mjr, 2, #1307 of 1308 🔗

WEDNESDAY’S page has now arrived

The UK economy and this page are now closed . Please pick up your P45 as you leave the building

86273 ▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to mjr, #1308 of 1308 🔗

That’s very goood…. 😁


193 users made 1,261 comments today.

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38Silke David7, 31
38tonys12, 26
38Bella Donna0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 24, 6, 4
37Rowan1, 4, 2, 4, 0, 1, 4, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0, 2, 5, 1, 10
34paulito38, 23
34Kate9, 1, 4, 7, 13
34Bruno6, 2, 0, 4, 1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, 0, 0, 15
32Chicot5, 1, 21, 5
32Squire Western2, 0, 0, 30
29Peter Thompson15, 5, 3, 6
28Richard Hoskins28
28Steeve17, 11
28Mark II1, 1, 2, 1, 8, 4, 11
26Adam6, 3, 17
256097 Smith W12, 8, 5
25arfurmo1, 24, 0
25kf993, 1, 21, 0, 0
25Steve Martindale1, 6, 7, 11, 0
24Biggles152, 7
24Steve10, 7, 7
24Ruth Sharpe1, 5, 7, 0, 4, 7
23Mark2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 2, 1, 1, 2, 7, 4, 2
22Cicatriz6, 2, 6, 1, 7
22Lms231, 1, 7, 13, 0, 0
21zacaway5, 3, 6, 5, 1, 1
20Linda B20
20BJJ14, 4, 2
19Ben Shirley19
19Ethelred the Unready1, 18
18tonyspurs8, 10
18mjr12, 0, 1, 1, 2, 2
18Lockdown Truth2, 0, 0, 1, 4, 1, 5, 5
17Tom Blackburn4, 2, 5, 5, 1
16stefarm4, 10, 2
15John Church11, 3, 1
15bluemoon4, 7, 2, 2
15Fed up2, 13, 0, 0
15Bella2, 1, 4, 1, 2, 5
15mhcp4, 1, 3, 5, 2, 0
14The Spingler12, 2
14Tim Bidie11, 3
14Edward1, 8, 5, 0
13HelzBelz2, 5, 3, 3
13IMoz7, 2, 2, 0, 1, 1
11Montag Smith10, 1, 0
10IanE2, 8
10James Leary #KBF9, 1
9Fiat7, 2
9flyingjohn0, 0, 9
9Hugh1, 6, 2
9p020990035, 1, 3
8AllieT7, 1
8nat3, 1, 4
7BTLnewbie6, 1
7ChrisDinBristol5, 2
7Drawde9272, 1, 4
7Gerry Mandarin1, 4, 2
6Cambridge N5, 0, 1
5Simon0, 1, 0, 4
4Country Mumkin4
4Keen Cook4
4AMZ1, 3
4Eddie2, 2
4TJN3, 1, 0
3Andy Riley1, 2
3Recusant2, 1
3davews1, 1, 1
2Digital Nomad2
2Ed Phillips2
2Lorenzo Basso2
2Sir Gus2
2DJ Dod1, 1
2John Smith1, 1
2JulieR1, 1
2Nic1, 1
2Paul Mendelsohn2, 0
2watashi1, 0, 1
1Chris John1
1Dave #KBF1
1Locked down and out1
1Miss Owl1
1Old Mum1
1Alison91, 0
1Arkansas0, 1
1ChrisW1, 0
1Cheezilla1, 0, 0
1RichardJames0, 0, 0, 1, 0
0Christian B0
0hat man0
0Nigel Sherratt0
0Steve Hayes0
0Toby Young0
0NickR0, 0
0Lili0, 0, 0, 0
0Carlo0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0