Last updated2020-08-12T11:12:50



86025 Liam, replying to Liam, #1 of 1392 🔗


86100 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Liam, #2 of 1392 🔗

You are victorious

86119 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Farinances, 1, #3 of 1392 🔗

Yay! *Skips around room*

86845 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Liam, 1, #4 of 1392 🔗

First over the top, first to be shot…

86029 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 78, #5 of 1392 🔗

Private Eye MD: The deterioration in the quality of MD columns in private eye continues apace today, with the supposed Dr suggesting anyone not wearing a face mask is an ‘uncaring dick’. Under ‘unmasking the evidence’ on p3, in a desperate pitch to defend the use of masks, they in sequence attempt to deflect from increasing case numbers by each of the following;

‘people aren’t wearing them properly’ – Well duh, this was incredibly predictable and one of the reasons they were never recommended for public use in history before, suddenly, last month.

‘those most likely to spread are too irresponsible to wear them’ – Doesn’t even deserve a response, pure hysterical crap

‘we’re testing more people, so finding more cases’ – One of their now regular omg-they’re-so-close-to-having-a-realisation moments

‘loosening lockdown which may -or may not- have been curtailed by masks’ – Also comical… given lockdown, as far as I’m aware, hasn’t been further loosened in any meaningful way, since masks were made mandatory…

For the first time in my life, I’ll be writing to the publication to complain about this irresponsible content, for an MD to suggest anyone maskless is an uncaring dick is so incredibly dangerous and inaccurate it deserves scorn.

86034 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mark II, 41, #6 of 1392 🔗

They also, hilariously, finish with ‘MD wears a mask in crowded places on the precautionary principle (not sure if it works, worth a try, doesnt appear to do me any harm, dont want to appear an uncaring dick), but now would be a good time to do more trials or we may never know if the discarded masks in the ocean are worth it’

So, accepts there’s negative consequences of at least one kind (huge waste, ocean pollution) but distances their self from that by claiming it does them no harm – is ocean pollution in millions of masks in landfill not a problem for us all? Given they also dont know if they cause harm (at least one study and historical conclusions suggest they do) I dont see how they can suggest they’re acting on precautionary principle.

So angry about the state of their piece right now, shocking how bad it is.

86061 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Mark II, 30, #7 of 1392 🔗

“Don’t want to appear an uncaring dick”

So just a dick then?

86117 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Margaret, 3, #8 of 1392 🔗

Haha, quite!!!

86186 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Margaret, 6, #9 of 1392 🔗

An educated but unintelligent one?

86299 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to T. Prince, 10, #10 of 1392 🔗

Ah, the Cressida. A real whale of a Dick

86319 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Chris John, 8, #11 of 1392 🔗

Cressida. The ‘Moby’ of the dick world…

86089 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark II, 42, #12 of 1392 🔗

MD is written by Phil Hammond, ‘doctor and comedian’. That tells you something. We used to get Private Eye regularly and, being asthmatic, I was foolishly persuaded by his strong arguments to get a flu jab in 2018. I was unwell for 3 days afterwards and 2019 was my worst year for health ever. 3 major respiratory infections leaving me with a permanent cough. Coincidence? Who knows?

I was watching James Corbett the other night and he talks about how one of the ways demand for vaccines is created is to artificially cause shortages. In autumn 2018 I had to wait weeks for my jab as my GP surgery almost never had it in and in the end I got it from the local chemist. At least interesting!

Private Eye is managed dissent on behalf of the British Establishment and it relies on the Old Boy Network for its information, and editorial line, particularly on foreign policy. Ask Toby Young, he’ll know more! They are good on local government corruption and they’ve occasionally supported NHS whistle-blowers, I wonder if they’ve published any blowing the gaff on the Scamdemic? I somehow doubt it.

We sacked it early this year after we realised we were basically reading the same stuff every fortnight and the jokes were wearing thin.

86099 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 14, #13 of 1392 🔗

The shortage thing is interesting.

Notice how suddenly a load of high street chemists and even shops were offering flu jabs?
Create a shortage in the NHS, demand goes up, offer jabs you have to pay for elsewhere……

Nice work if you can get it. Someone is making so much money from this and it isn’t the taxpayer.

86109 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Farinances, 4, #14 of 1392 🔗

Yes, that’s exactly how it was, although I’m so ancient, mine was free.

I bet Corbett’s right: this is another way they’ll having everyone clamouring for the vaccine.

BTW, we were sitting outside last night and a near neighbour and her new lodger walked past. Such are the times we haven’t had a chat for weeks but she and the lodger are full-on LSs. Disappointingly, she wears a mask to shop so we’ll work on her.

However, despite the fact that she’s in alternative medicine, she’s really fed up that her two grown-up sons say they want the vaccine when it’s available.

86213 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #15 of 1392 🔗

Surely what the lads mean is that they want their freedom, their sport, their gigs, their social life….?

86243 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 5, #16 of 1392 🔗

Yes, of course they do! They honestly think that they will get them back and it’s heartbreaking.

86366 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #17 of 1392 🔗

Oh, just thought – and yet another way families are being divided against each other,

86661 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #18 of 1392 🔗

The old normal is never coming back and the new normal won’t last too long either. Ask Bill Gates about that. It’s all about depopulation and for the good of the planet, surely you understand, don’t you?

86751 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Rowan, 5, #19 of 1392 🔗

Tell Bill to buy a planet and get lost.

86772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to richard riewer, 5, #20 of 1392 🔗

Yeah, he can have Mercury.

86785 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DressageRider, 3, #21 of 1392 🔗

The hot side should suit him nicely.

86838 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rowan, 2, #22 of 1392 🔗

Yes it would but a slow death is more appropriate for him.

86787 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DressageRider, 3, #23 of 1392 🔗

Let’s hope that he gets Mercury poisoning and no vaccine in sight.

87486 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to richard riewer, #24 of 1392 🔗

Ah but Gates knows what the vaccines he pays to develop really contain, so I’m damn sure he wouldn’t dream of having one!

88048 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to ShropshireLass, #25 of 1392 🔗

He didn’t have his own children vaccinated, nice one Bill.

87388 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Mendelsohn, replying to DressageRider, #26 of 1392 🔗

Well the Mercury’s rising across this planet….

86788 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 1, #27 of 1392 🔗

None of that is likely to be part of the new normal.

86830 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #28 of 1392 🔗

Corbett will be right, unfortunately for all of us.

86205 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Farinances, 7, #29 of 1392 🔗

MOH was offered a free flu jab last autumn because of age and underlying health issues. He declined. He also didn’t get the flu or anything similar.
I also didn’t get a flu jab, did get a very short-lived regular common cold, followed by that weird virus that left the long-lasting cough. No idea if it was The Covid or not.
We won’t be having a flu jab this year either. Or the CV19 vaccine.

86351 ▶▶▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Lms23, 4, #30 of 1392 🔗

For those considering flu jab, worth reading study of USA veterans indicating flu jab interference increased susceptibility to coronaviruses in over 30% of veterans:

86391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ alw, replying to PowerCorrupts, 4, #31 of 1392 🔗

I have had the flu vaccination for nearly 30 years now because of repeated sinus infections and not having to rely on unnecessary antibiotics and have not had any problems since. We were also unknowingly in contact with people who some days later got Covid. No one else in our group did. Guess it is all down to each individual’s genetic make up,

86825 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to alw, 2, #32 of 1392 🔗

You ought really to be dead, best keep yourself locked down indefinitely. Not at all sure, that the flu shot is supposed to work for sinus infections, but perhaps it’s the placebo effect.

86954 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to alw, 2, #33 of 1392 🔗

Each to his own, my GP touts the flu vaccine to me each year, previously because remnant asthma, latterly dotage.
I have never taken it, never had flu (despite many poor lifestyle choices) and will not be taking vaccine for the Covid.
Cheers Bill.

87154 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to karenovirus, 2, #34 of 1392 🔗

May be wrong but I think they are on an incentive scheme: they get a payment for every patient vaccinated

87160 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to OKUK, #35 of 1392 🔗

They do. Our neighbour works in a nearby health centre and mentioned the practice gets a bung from the drug company if there is a 70% (I think she said) take up of flu jabs in eligible categories. As soon as she said that, I made up my mind not to have one this year. And will definitely not be having Bill’s jab.

86804 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, 5, #36 of 1392 🔗

Getting the flu shot seems to be a good way of hastening death. I’m fairly sure that those who have supposedly died of Covid-19 will virtually all have had the flu vaccination.

Perhaps even more sinister, is that in recent times many of the elderly and perhaps some other vulnerable persons, were given the so called super flu shots, said to be four times stronger than normal.

I’m in my mid seventies and haven’t knowingly had flu since the infamous Asian flu pandemic of 1957. I have never had a flu shot, despite continued pestering from my GP, or any other vaccination since 1965.

86963 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rowan, #37 of 1392 🔗

You are not suggesting that they screwed up the 2019 flu vaccine so they keeled over a few months later are you ?

87036 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 1, #38 of 1392 🔗

You can suggest what you like, who am I to disagree.

86110 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 24, #39 of 1392 🔗

‘Phil Hammond, doctor (!), comedian (!), brain-dead, fully paid up member of the smug, sneerocracy made up of those other smug bastards such as Hislop et al. BTW Hammond, nobody gives a shit what you think about people who don’t wear masks or anything else for that matter.

86182 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to T. Prince, 16, #40 of 1392 🔗

Hislop occupies a place well inside the cosy intestines of the BBC. Nuff sed.

86433 ▶▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Simon Dutton, 5, #41 of 1392 🔗

He got to his cosy intestinal BBC nook via the most direct route – up Auntie’s well used nether passage. Face first, which is why his ugly mug has such a ‘pushed in’ look. 💩

86113 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 15, #42 of 1392 🔗

I actually sacked it off a few years back because, like you, I found I was reading just the same stories of repeated corruption across politics and big business (and local gov) that it actually just became depressing and futile to continue reading.

I only re-subscribed at the start of lockdown, under the expectation that I’d see some investigative work into what the actual fuck is going on, some pragmatic opinions and holding those in power to account for stripping us of freedoms and liberties. I’ve been nothing other than disappointed on all counts, as the magazine has ignored it for the most part (except for the occasional realisation that a few friendly companies are pocketing big money) other than pushing the MD column to the front for the time being – the content of which has been mostly shameful apart from the odd ‘a-ha’ moment MD appears to have, following by more hysteria and unfounded statements of terror.

86171 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #43 of 1392 🔗

Toby seems to think this global fascist coup under the guise of a fake virus is the result of bumbling Boris’s incompetence 🤣

86188 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to peter, 20, #44 of 1392 🔗

Agree. I could understand his view if it was just Johnson, but it’s more or less everywhere! (NZ lockdown because of 4 new CASES!!!!) Why is it only us that sees this con job for what it is?

86840 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to peter, 2, #45 of 1392 🔗

Somewhat worrying, That was my position up to about the end of March, but then reality kicked in.

86172 ▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #46 of 1392 🔗

I stopped it four years ago when it was still publishing anti-Brexit stuff 6 months after the referendum.

86298 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #47 of 1392 🔗

Private Eye is such a nasty little rag; entirely in the thrall of Westminster and the Old Boys.
And Hislop adores the Beeb. He’s all over it.
At my provincial Grammar, he is what we would have called ‘a squit’.

And Phil Hammond is neither a doctor nor a comic as he has no talent for either.

Give up the grotty old rag and spend your money on subscriptions to alternative publications – online or hard copy – and support the new breed of writers, comics & sceptics. They need our advocacy & our pennies.

86547 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Little Red Hen, #48 of 1392 🔗

Well said!

86856 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Little Red Hen, 1, #49 of 1392 🔗

In June, I bought the Eye for the first time in twenty years or so. £2 wasted.

86432 ▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #50 of 1392 🔗

And you think this website isn’t managed dissent? Toby yet once again pulls his punches today sticking to the cock-up line when Boris’ real agenda is clear as daylight for anyone without blinkers on to see.

86452 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Digital Nomad, 7, #51 of 1392 🔗

You’re going to need to be clear about what you mean by “managed dissent” if you are going to sling that charge around here. Otherwise it looks as though all you are doing is using it as a smear term for opinions you disagree with.

I can kind of see your point, in that from your pov (presumably) arguing for cockup if there is a conspiracy would be a way to defuse suspicion of the true rulers. But to be a reasonable charge I think there’d have to be more to it than just expressing an opinion that you disagree with. As far as I have seen, there’s no censorship here and Toby, while clear about his own view, is not afraid of giving reasonable space to the alternative opinion even above the line. And while he clearly doesn’t agree with the more extreme conspiracy theorist, he also does not spend undue time bashing or abusing them.

86458 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mark, 2, #52 of 1392 🔗

Bashing Piers Corbyn is extremely unhelpful, and it sounds as if Toby is nudging us towards acceptance of both vaccination and 5G. I hope it’s a one-off.

86488 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Rosie, 1, #53 of 1392 🔗

So he disagrees with Piers Corbyn’s wider views. He’s far from alone here in that, though most of us respect Corbyn for standing up (and I seem to recall Toby saying that as well).

Is anyone who falls between supporting the coronapanic and supporting the more extreme “conspiracy” and anti-vaxx positions to be dismissed as “managed dissent”? I mean, fair enough if that’s how you see it, but I doubt it will prove very persuasive, at least until and unless Toby starts consistently bashing those positions, censoring comments pushing them, and banning their exponents btl.

86532 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mark, 4, #54 of 1392 🔗

Why are you arguing about things I didn’t say?

86602 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Rosie, #55 of 1392 🔗

I drew what I think were reasonable inferences from your comment given its context, going back to the comment mine was a reply to. If those inferences were incorrect, then that’s fine, all you have to do is correct them.(Fwiw, btw, I didn’t down-vote your comment. That was already there when I saw it.)

87421 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ H K, replying to Mark, #56 of 1392 🔗

But the so-called conspiracy theories are based on actual documents and evidence – Event 201, Rockerfeller Lockstep document, Bill Gates saying we can only go back to normal if we have a vaccine linked to a digital immunity passport, ID2020 etc.
I also belive most people are not antvax, but anti unsafe vax. You only need to look into cases of the swine flu vax. The vaccine manufacturers are indemnified, so people are understandably concerned about a coronavirus vaccine that’s been rusheed so quick and there has been no long term studies!

86559 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Rosie, 6, #57 of 1392 🔗

Bashing Piers Corbyn is extremely unhelpful” Well, I know very little about Corbyn, but what I would say is that the image he presents and some of his other views possibly make him a less than ideal candidate for the figurehead/public face of an opposition movement, if we want to persuade neutrals. Someone like Lord Sumption for example is way more suitable, or even Carl Heneghan, or Karol Sikora – they come with much less baggage. Even people like Hitchens or Dolan, who are more “mainstream” than Corbyn, arguable, are going to attract knee-jerk reactions (Hitchens for being supposedly “right wing” and Dolan for being rich and living in Monaco). I took the comment about Corbyn to mean this, rather than as a slur on his character. He deserves a lot of respect for standing up to be counted and putting his energy into this. Perhaps Toby Young could have qualified the statement a little.

86914 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Julian, 3, #58 of 1392 🔗

Let’s hope you are right – I’m very anxious about it. Not long ago there was a comment to the effect that ‘what are they doing arresting a 75 year old man’ , I’m moderately confident that was from Toby – and now changed to this. As I say, I am very worried. Piers Corbyn has been standing up against the ‘Climate Change’ lies for many years and should have earned everyone’s respect for that.

86850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Rosie, 1, #59 of 1392 🔗

I imagine he’s actually bashing another Corbyn by proxy.

86864 ▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Mark, 2, #60 of 1392 🔗

There is a line that can’t be crossed in order to maintain some ‘mainstream’ acceptance and convert more folks into seeing this all more clearly.
The C word doesn’t need to be mentioned. As everyone knows just the sight of it sends minds a closing shut and people fleeing away from just another fruit loopery site. Leave it be and keep the discussion focused on tearing down this almighty WHO-approved virus narrative.

86491 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Digital Nomad, 16, #61 of 1392 🔗

Yes, I’ve always thought that too and have posted about it in the past. I have never been under any illusion that Toby Young’s offerings could be anything else. He grimly sticks to the cock-up theory against all the evidence to the contrary and he uses expressions like ‘cases’, ‘full lock-downs’ etc without irony or quotation marks. The site provides a safety valve for sceptics but he does provide links to some good information and the occasional excellent article and he or an associate does some good analysis on some of the dodgy figures about. I ignore the MSM dross links (e.g.analysis/politics-free DT or DM rants about the awful lock-down but which won’t touch the realpolik with a barge-pole.)

Meanwhile, with the ‘cock-ups’ of nearly every country to choose to avoid, what do Kim Ung Dan and she of the Bionic Teeth choose to do? Follow Sweden, of course. Oh hang on. . . . . And we’re expected to believe this is more ‘cock-up’ or ‘panic’ are we?

I find the most annoying things in Toby’s posts to be the ‘why oh whyery’: What is Boris thinking of’, ‘What fresh hell is this?’, etc. I think we all know by now what fresh hell it is – it’s the one we wake up to every morning, tense with worrying about what they’ll pull out of the bag next.

The charitable view would be that he can’t get beyond ‘cock-up’ or ‘panic’ because he still has strong personal relationships with Government figures and he may be indulging in wishful thinking. In other words, ‘Oh silly Toby, time to grow a pair!’ Ring any bells?

At the same time I’m glad LS exists as a forum because there’s bugger-all else, really. Many of the BTL comments are really useful and there are people on here doing genuine research. I’ve learned a lot. Also, more people are using it, which may be a positive sign. Many people are also challenging MPs and councils, for what it’s worth.

Anyway, apart from Off-Guardian and UK Column, slightly different platforms but who are also prepared to recognise the enormity of what is being done to the populations of so many countries, all in lock-step, LS is a life-line for me and many others, managed or not. Apart from non-compliance and spreading the word where possible, what else have we got?

86509 ▶▶▶▶▶ flyingjohn, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #62 of 1392 🔗

There is not ‘bugger-all else’. The best forum around is https://going-postal.com/

Extremely frank language and views, extremely lockdown sceptic. If you can’t stand frank and fruity language and points of view, avoid it! I spend many happy hours a day between here and there.

86530 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to flyingjohn, 4, #63 of 1392 🔗

Thanks, I had a quick look and I think I’ll enjoy reading it. Absolutely not in the slightest bothered by frank and fruity language and I don’t mind other points of view (or people disagreeing with me).

86866 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to flyingjohn, #64 of 1392 🔗

Beauty! Thanks John

87008 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to flyingjohn, #65 of 1392 🔗

Ta for that link.
From a comment there, is it time we started shaking hands again ?

87052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to flyingjohn, 4, #66 of 1392 🔗

Yes all that may be so, but “going-postal’ is light years from being just about Covid. The enormity of what is now going on means that Covid is the only show in town. Governments across the world do not crash their economies in “lockstep”, without some massive underlying agenda. We are in very deep trouble and Covid-19 is not the the problem.

86533 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #67 of 1392 🔗

Unless and until comments are censored based on Toby Young’s views I am not sure it matters a great deal what they are, beyond the fact (not unimportant) that he’s an ally with a platform and resources who is good to have on “our” side.

86541 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Julian, 5, #68 of 1392 🔗

I wouldn’t disagree with that. It’s just that a site like this can’t really constitute any real opposition and I sense that some people wish it could, judging by the pleas for new political parties. It would be unfair to expect it to be otherwise. The lack of censorship is consistent with Toby Young’s campaign for Free Speech and to be applauded. I hope it is able to continue.

86548 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #69 of 1392 🔗

Depends what you mean by opposition. It facilitates an exhange of views and information which hopefully has a wider effect. People on here in their turn network with others and hopefully persuade some round to their point of view. That’s a form of contribution to opposition, as are Toby’s articles and other work, and those of his associates.

86566 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #70 of 1392 🔗

If we want opposition we’ll have to organise our own. KBF has a section in the forum where people are trying to get together in their local regions. Have a look there, join your local group and get organising some opposition!

Meanwhile, UKColumn is exhorting us to write to our MPs, what key questions to ask etc.
Worth a watch here: https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-12th-august-2020

The KBF forum also has som templates for general correspondence with your MPs but the UKC ones are the proably the most important right now.

86620 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #71 of 1392 🔗

Yes, I’ll have a look and we’d be up for joining local protests if there are any. People en masse are worse than sheep up here but we hear a lot of quiet dissent. People just won’t put their heads above the parapet, don’t want to ‘upset people’ etc.

We always watch UK Column and have written to our useless Tory-Boy MP several times. He was flown in to harvest the Leave votes and ousted an excellent – I know, I know! – Labour MP who was a grafter and actually had a bit of integrity, It’s anyone’s guess how she would have been on this stuff; sadly, she’d probably be signed up.

Anyway, T-B is a chocolate fireguard who loves to make meaningless grandstanding statements. After about 3 letters we got a Government cut-and-paste so-called reply from him. We now await his ‘response’ to our mask risk-assessment question.

86680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #72 of 1392 🔗

UK Column did a great section on government risk assessment today.

87043 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #73 of 1392 🔗

Absolutely. UK Column is carrying the standard in what is now a life or death fight against impending Covid martial law. We are in deep trouble.

87040 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #74 of 1392 🔗

Yes UK Column is doing a good job of meeting the Covid fiasco head on. There is no old school network holding them back.

87039 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #75 of 1392 🔗

We actually need concerted opposition, or we are dead meat.

86722 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #76 of 1392 🔗

You only have to meet these people to know that they could never organise a conspiracy.

86529 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Digital Nomad, 6, #77 of 1392 🔗

Whose dissent is being “managed”? Not mine. A wide range of opinions on display here. I am glad Toby Young has put this site together and glad he is voicing sceptical views on the platforms he has, and so I think are most of the rest of us glad. That doesn’t mean that we’re all TY fanboys or agree with all his positions on everything. As I have said before, I often don’t read what Toby writes, and just come here for the comments (sorry Toby).

Being fully aware of the ulterior motives and mechanisms at work would be useful, but unless you can make a case for how cock-up vs conspiracy is somehow diluting the message of what we collectively think the government needs to do now, I am not sure it’s crucially important at this stage. Our best hope IMO is to get the message out that the “pandemic” is really over.

86551 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 8, #78 of 1392 🔗

Toby works for the MSM. We should be extremely grateful that he has the guts to provide us with an uncensored platform here to say what we really think and help each other decypher what’s really going on. Don’t be an ingrate!

86560 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, #79 of 1392 🔗

Agree. Hope you don’t think it’s me being the ingrate….

86669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #80 of 1392 🔗

No. Anyone the cap fits ….

86858 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, #81 of 1392 🔗


86792 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 5, #82 of 1392 🔗

Frankly, I don’t think I would come here at all if it were actively pushing the ‘conspiracy theory’ end of the argument. I absolutely see the appeal of the structure that the theories give and the logical sense that they can seem to make (one of the reasons I don’t buy into them – things don’t usually make logical sense), but I don’t and can’t believe them. I have no first hand ‘establishment’ relationships and no links to MSM, but I’m a true believer in the cock up theory.

Personally, I don’t think it’s remotely fair to accuse Toby Young of providing managed dissent, but regardless, a blog focused on theories and evidence of a globalist plot would interest me not the tiniest bit.

86852 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Julian, 3, #83 of 1392 🔗

Too many cockups and too much incompetence. Too much influence of Bill Gates and his vaccine depopulation agenda. We are being played big time and the omens are not good.

86849 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Digital Nomad, 1, #84 of 1392 🔗

“And you think this website isn’t managed dissent?”

Well that should have crossed quite a few of our minds. Still up to now the site is the best of its kind and the comments are not heavily censored. Toby may even get to grips with reality in time.

86453 ▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #85 of 1392 🔗

The same thing happened to me: I am listed as asthmatic, and so every year I am invited to have a flu jab. One year I decided to go ahead and have it. That year I had really bad flu which knocked me out for a week – the only flu I can remember having in thirty or so years.

86872 ▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #86 of 1392 🔗

I had a one and only flu jab in the late 1980s. Had my worst year ever after that for colds, flu and generally feeling unwell. Never had one since and don’t intend to start now. General health good as I also avoid seeing doctors.

87155 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #87 of 1392 🔗

Private Eye stopped being satirical when Hislop took over. Compare and contrast with Peter Cook! Hislop is establishment through and through.

87394 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #88 of 1392 🔗

They were good on the Post Office computer systems scandal. But a drop in the ocean.

86138 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Mark II, 4, #89 of 1392 🔗

I agree, MD used to be good but has been getting steadily worse. I’ve subscribed to Private Eye for many years but may not renew. To some extent they’ve become just another branch of the London-centric media. They do still have some good stuff like the Prince Charles spoofs, the From the Message Boards column, and the satirical Diary by Craig Brown. They were also good on the Post Office Horizon IT scandal.

86252 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Edward, 2, #90 of 1392 🔗

Ah, the message boards: We probably liked Stokie Steve the best. Now, isn’t that where Awkward Git lives? Mind you to be fair, Stokie channels Biker more than AG or is it the other way round? Apologies to anyone reading this who doesn’t know what the **** we’re talking about!

86600 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #91 of 1392 🔗

Aha, Stokie Steve – come to Stoke and we’ll kick your fucking head in! And the guy who says things like Anyone looks at my girls I swear Ill do time. And Tim the househusband with his youngest daughter called Remain.

86623 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Edward, #92 of 1392 🔗

Family man – yes!

86357 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 6, #93 of 1392 🔗

Private Eye has done some good digging – but it exists within the narrow framework of a public school rag-mag. It will never tackle fundamental issues that really buck the ‘Fleet Street’ narrative, even when taking the piss out of the Groan.

This became obvious during the time that the MSM was making up fake ‘antisemitism’ stories and piling into Corbyn. The Eye never once stepped outside the establishment narrative.

86368 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #94 of 1392 🔗

P.S. Re. their ‘investigations’ into supposed bureaucratic corruption : they aren’t necessarily all that they seem.

I happened to know the real background of one piece of tittle-tattle that cropped up in their ‘Rotten Boroughs’ column. Journalistically, it was a really poor piece of tittle-tattle from an interest group that had an axe to grind, and which any decent journalist would have binned before passing on the Chinese whispers.

86443 ▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to RickH, 5, #95 of 1392 🔗

They have wholly lost their investigative integrity. They lost it with the early death of Paul Foot.
Move on – new & genuinely anti-establishment writing & critics are readily available elsewhere.
The P.Eye has become the Establishment and has little more heft & sincerity than light-weight Commons Bar joshing.

87392 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Mark II, #96 of 1392 🔗

Private Eye has been declining for years. Not nearly enough bite, and far too much whingeing from a leftist slant IMNSVHO

86031 stewart, replying to stewart, 54, #97 of 1392 🔗

I guess Boris Johnson has turned out as expected: all vacuous bluster and no substance.

The big problem for all of us is that the millions of us who think the lockdown approach is a disaster are politically unrepresented. Labour thinks we should have lockdown sooner and harder.

We are political orphans.

86038 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to stewart, 41, #98 of 1392 🔗

I find it curious that NO ONE on any political spectrum understands that there is a huge electorate with NO representation up for grabs.

86058 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to KBuchanan, 18, #99 of 1392 🔗

This is so true, a real vacuum
problems are, anyone who tries to fill that vacuum is immediately branded ‘far right’ and the FPTP electoral system makes it virtually impossible to challenge the political status quo. UKIP a classic example. Personally, I would love for there to be a credible alternative (Ie not Britain First or similar) to vote for, there must be millions just like me….dream team, Toby, Delingpole, Lol Fox, Kate Andrews, Farage, Hitchens, O’Neill, Trev Phillips…any other suggestions?

86153 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 14, #100 of 1392 🔗

Don’t forget Lord Sumption, Simon Dolan and Dr James Lee as well

86278 ▶▶▶▶ PD, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 13, #101 of 1392 🔗

I’d also add Sherelle Jacobs and Ross Clark from the Telegraph. Always on the money.
The entire Spiked editorial team and Douglas Murray.

86367 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 8, #102 of 1392 🔗

There are people who would be labelled “far left” who are also politically homeless. These are the old-style social democrats (not the SDP) with a belief in social justice and even, shock-horror, nationalisation. Many of these old ideas may need updating, but they are still valid ideas.

But whether on the right, left, or dead down the centre, what is painfully obvious is that all the established political parties don’t care about us, or the country, but only their own pet projects or, worse, their own personal gain.

We need parties that are pro-British and pro-British people. Too many are internationalist, or put the interests of other countries and other peoples before our own. We must look after ourselves now, because nobody else will.

86463 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #103 of 1392 🔗

No matter who we vote for sadly the same globalist agendas remain – I guess that is largely due to the senior civil servants who remain in place for decades. The British public never gets a say when our governments sign us up to life changing international treaties which often aren’t in the interest of your average citizen but to the benefit of the very top elite.

87068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Darryl, 1, #104 of 1392 🔗

Civil Servants are not remotely the problem this time around. The contrived Covid madness is clearly part of the globalist agenda and the globalists are now playing a very serious game of hardball. We are in deep trouble.

86571 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #105 of 1392 🔗

We desperately need a pro-people party right now!

86094 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to KBuchanan, 15, #106 of 1392 🔗

This is how fascist dictatorships get started. It’s worrying.
Then again, we’re already living in one, so……

86122 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to KBuchanan, 12, #107 of 1392 🔗

This is one of the arguments for refusing to vote. (There are others.) Low turnouts absolutely are noticed, and new politicians will seek to fill any vacuum.

Until we have candidates and preferably parties standing for election that are not compromised on the coronapanic, and preferably not utterly corrupt Blairite vehicles for lying opportunists like the existing ones, we have no real alternative to not voting to put our point across.

86180 ▶▶▶ Marco, replying to KBuchanan, 6, #108 of 1392 🔗

There is the Libertarian Party UK. We are trying to grow and attract members and there a lot of like minded people engaging in good conversation here that would fit in well with the LPUK.

86253 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Marco, 4, #109 of 1392 🔗

Have they made any statements on the coronapanic issue?

Have they stood any parliamentary candidates yet?

Tbh, I might vote for a LPUK candidate if one stood in my constituency, though it would be a wholly symbolic gesture (one party donkey constituency), but it would depend if it were left “libertarian” (full of woke, antiracist and internationalist dogma), or sensibly libertarian (small government, genuine free speech, policing borders).

Have they signed up to Toby’s Free Speech Union, or its principles – that seems to me to be a basic first step for anyone to be take as credible on freedom of speech today.

87074 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mark, #110 of 1392 🔗

The fight against Covid fascism will not be won by playing the democracy game. That will be a dead end, literally.

87448 ▶▶▶▶▶ H K, replying to Mark, #111 of 1392 🔗

I’ve joined the LPUK. They are against the PC woke nonsense. It’s the individual liberty, small government, free speech etc platform.
They have a website and facebook page if you what further info on their policies.
They are against the lockdown measures and are saying this is a massive government overreach

86501 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Marco, #112 of 1392 🔗

Looks interesting, we could do with a clean slate with politics.

I wonder did they support the compulsory lockdown of the healthy rather than just quarantine the ill? also wondered if you are pro choice regarding mask wearing?

86577 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marco, #113 of 1392 🔗

Do you know why Dan Liddicott has suddenly resigned?

87456 ▶▶▶▶▶ H K, replying to Cheezilla, #114 of 1392 🔗

He did issue a statement on the facebook page.
I think he disagreed with the direction the NEC were going – ie only accepting 1 view of being a libertarian rather Dan’s view of having a spectrum to attract a broader base. But to you will have to look this up yourself to confirm

86374 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to KBuchanan, #115 of 1392 🔗

I think that they ALL know this, but then THEY are the problem, not the solution.

86873 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to KBuchanan, #116 of 1392 🔗

I think Farage does (and always has).

86148 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stewart, 6, #117 of 1392 🔗

I just spoil every ballot paper now unless there is a true independent of any persuasion on the list but that is rarer than unicorn shit in this true-blue vote tory regardless neighbourhood.

At least the spoilt papers are recorded.

86384 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #118 of 1392 🔗

They are. And have to be counted because you bothered to turn up to vote. They have to ensure that the total number of votes cast equals the number of people who turn up to vote!

Remember to put a big black dot in each box though.

87013 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nick Rose, #119 of 1392 🔗

And the total of Spoiled Ballots gets read out on the telly.

86158 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 5, #120 of 1392 🔗

I will just have to continually write “NONE OF THE ABOVE” in my ballot paper until the political class take the hint.

Boris Jong Son is shaping up to be the worst Conservative PM since Chamberlain and Eden!

86209 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #121 of 1392 🔗

“I will just have to continually write “NONE OF THE ABOVE” in my ballot paper until the political class take the hint.”

They won’t.
It will simply be counted as a spoiled ballot. Until and unless everyone does it, it won’t make any difference.

86377 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Lms23, 1, #122 of 1392 🔗

Yup – and they will just call us apathetic or anarchistic.

86780 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lms23, #123 of 1392 🔗

Agree but if more than enough of us go for “NONE OF THE ABOVE” surely they will have to listen?

The cynic in me goes naaaah……

86214 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #124 of 1392 🔗

Hey, Eden and Chamberlain may not have been the brightest bulbs in the set, but they did have some principles.

86389 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #125 of 1392 🔗

Chamberlain may be. Assume you mean Joseph, rather than Neville…

87082 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nick Rose, #126 of 1392 🔗

Eden had principles, mainly fascist, but still principles.

86777 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #127 of 1392 🔗

True but they floundered when it came to the crunch.

86233 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #128 of 1392 🔗

Surely ever…?

86775 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown Truth, #129 of 1392 🔗

Unless someone in the future will turn out the worst of the worst.

87083 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, #130 of 1392 🔗

They won’t get the chance.

87077 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, #131 of 1392 🔗

No no, Boris is a much much worse. Boris is now overseeing the total demolition of the all the UK economies, on behalf of his “friends” in Davos.

86281 ▶▶ PD, replying to stewart, 1, #132 of 1392 🔗

There is the SDP. Socialist in the old sense – ie For the working classes.
Pro-Leave, pro-family.
No mention of their stance on lockdown though.

86348 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stewart, 5, #133 of 1392 🔗

I’ve been a political orphan since 1987. You get used to it after thirty years or so. And when the pennies fall away from your eyes in the political sense, you really see what arseholes ALL politicians really are. No wonder we keep getting second and third raters in charge. No bloody vision, as Harold Wilson put it.

87021 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nick Rose, #134 of 1392 🔗

Likewise, I grew up thinking I was a Conservative until they got rid of Enoch, not because of the ‘rivers of blood’, rather because he was anti Common Market. Mrs.T. revived my interest for a while until they did the same to her, bunch of tossers.
There can be no party for an anarcho-conservative.

87086 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 1, #135 of 1392 🔗

“There can be no party for an anarcho-conservative.”

 Well yes, that would have to be the case.

86380 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, #136 of 1392 🔗

To be honest – the collective of the electorate are, in the end, responsible. The nation has come to be an idiocracy where ‘I never vote’ or ‘They’re all the same’ or ‘They’re all bent’ have passed as political wisdom – until the brainless has become the actuality.

86581 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 2, #137 of 1392 🔗

“They’re all the same” and “They’re all bent” is certainly proving to be true at the moment.

87087 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #138 of 1392 🔗

Bent or stupid, not too much of a choice.

86413 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, #139 of 1392 🔗

Bluster Keaton.

87088 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to richard riewer, #140 of 1392 🔗

He would get my vote.

87061 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to stewart, 1, #141 of 1392 🔗

It’s a lot worse than that. The futile lockdowns are just a harbinger of the utter madness that is still to come. I may have said this before, but it bears repeating, we are in a fight for our very lives and right now we are losing hands down.

87126 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rowan, 1, #142 of 1392 🔗

I’ve just read the Health Passport link on Toby’s page, sounds hideous. I really do hope that wasn’t the plan all along.

86036 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 34, #143 of 1392 🔗

The ‘storming’ (walking in without a mask) of the Morrisons took place on Saturday 25th July – just after the introduction of compulsory masks in shops. Why are the mainstream media making such a fuss about this over 2 weeks after it happened? I am sure it didn’t go unnoticed by them. I guess the government is going to come out with more draconian punishments shortly.

Seriously, going to a supermarket mask free shouldn’t make front page headlines when we have just probably had the biggest ever man made economic crash in history.

86085 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Darryl, 7, #144 of 1392 🔗

Saw a video of a woman in Australia being put in a choke hold by a police thug for not wearing a mask. Not sure if this was widely reported by our honest and balanced MSM?

86108 ▶▶▶ Lorenzo Basso, replying to T. Prince, 13, #145 of 1392 🔗

I saw that, along with a load of horrible people saying she deserved it and worse. How did we get here? 🙁

86120 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 20, #146 of 1392 🔗

I often wonder that now. Went for a walk along the river last evening, rather warm and humid, no breeze. Was surprised how many other walkers were wearing masks!!!!WTF is wrong with people????

87090 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to T. Prince, #147 of 1392 🔗

Hopeless, clueless and a lot more besides. We are clearly in deep trouble.

86800 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 1, #148 of 1392 🔗

Yeah, but who were the people saying it? Probably sociopathic/psychopathic types that make up a section of the Twitterati.

86121 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to T. Prince, 17, #149 of 1392 🔗

There are other videos from Australia of car windows being smashed and the drivers being dragged out for not wearing masks in their own cars. The media have brainwashed the public to such an extent that they support brutal police action even to the point of killing people (history repeating itself again? I am sure people with say ‘it’s different this time’). Truly scary time, yet no MSM condemnation and silence from politicians on both the Left and Right!

86128 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Darryl, 4, #150 of 1392 🔗

Too busy thinking about BLM?

86150 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to T. Prince, 3, #151 of 1392 🔗

yes- from what i have seen all those assaulted by the police were white. Any link to complete MSM lack of interest?

86195 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to mjr, 3, #152 of 1392 🔗

Absolutely. Along with a frightened, compliant population. Any Ozzie’s on here with a view how Australians really view this madness?

86210 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adrian, replying to T. Prince, 32, #153 of 1392 🔗

As an Australian living in Melbourne, I am apalled and disgusted by the hysterical bedwetting displayed by our politicians and MSM over a few hundred deaths. But more disturbing has been the rapid descent into a police state and the way that has been cheered on by a largely compliant population. People with my views are very much in the minority and you risk being ostracized merely by expressing them. I feel very alone. This site has been a godsend to me. It is like the population had been completely brainwashed. Australia has long been a nanny state but the way this rampant authoritarianism had been cheered on is really frightening.

86267 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Drummerman, replying to Adrian, 22, #154 of 1392 🔗

Adrian, your ‘I feel very alone’ comment doesn’t go unnoticed. My wife said to me that being a lockdown sceptic around ones friends can feel like it’s occupied Europe in the 1940s and we’re hiding Anne Frank in the attic (and yes, that may seem like an out-of-proportion comment, but I hope you get the general drift …).

87093 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Drummerman, 1, #155 of 1392 🔗

“we’re hiding Anne Frank in the attic (and yes, that may seem like an out-of-proportion comment”

If only it were out of proportion, but it isn’t remotely so.

86344 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Adrian, 7, #156 of 1392 🔗

Sorry to see the conditions you are living under. I watched a video today by an Australian discussing the situation in Victoria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39HDIna1c6A . The police look incredibly militarised for dealing with a virus, they seem to be armed and dressed for civil disorder (or a coup) not protecting people.

87094 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Darryl, 1, #157 of 1392 🔗

There is clearly a coup in progress.

86399 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Adrian, 6, #158 of 1392 🔗

It’s what fear does to people. I had hoped more folk would be rational these days, but clearly not.

On the bright side, you won’t be alone. I’ve spoken to many people who’ve responded with “but I thought it was just me thinking this way”. That will be as true in Melbourne as it is here.

Hold fast, brother.

86439 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Adrian, 1, #159 of 1392 🔗

How did it become a Nanny State? Any ideas?

86455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Adrian, 11, #160 of 1392 🔗

Adrian, as a half Australian living in Scotland I have been astounded by the overnight authoritarianism here and in Australia, but it is a tactic they use to try to isolate non-compliant people (like a lion pack hunting prey) to disarm you and make you despair and give up. Recognize it as the challenge that evil always presents and take strength knowing there are millions who agree with you and are similarly being suppressed/silenced. Take care, your integrity matters more than being a compliant sheeple

87001 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Adrian, 3, #161 of 1392 🔗

I’m scared for the Australians. It’s shocking what’s happening in your country. I’m terrified it will come to pass in the UK next.

87097 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sophie123, 1, #162 of 1392 🔗

“I’m terrified it will come to pass in the UK next.”

And very rightly so.

86176 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Darryl, 1, #163 of 1392 🔗

To be fair, Australia was founded as a penal colony

86590 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, 1, #164 of 1392 🔗

Yes but, ironically, most of the convicts were political dissidents!

86183 ▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Darryl, 17, #165 of 1392 🔗

If I were still teaching I would be able to use all these incidents to effectively illustrate how the Nazis were able to take over so easily in Germany!

86235 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Judith Day, 3, #166 of 1392 🔗

Compare and contrast. No hang on, just compare!

86365 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Judith Day, 5, #167 of 1392 🔗

The dehumanisation of people the establishment disagrees with is a tactic we have sadly seen many times in the past – and when it is taken to extremes by the social engineers / propagandists we know it gets ugly. People sadly don’t see they are taking part in the same groupthink as previous generations have.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a modern day Sophie Scholl the way things are spiralling out of control.

86407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, 4, #168 of 1392 🔗

I’ve already had to exhort some people to “get a grip of themselves”. We’re going to need some large mental institutions for them soon.

87098 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #169 of 1392 🔗

The institutions will be full of lockdown sceptics. We are in deep trouble.

87026 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Judith Day, 2, #170 of 1392 🔗

The nazis took over Germany because the population was so scared of everything else they voted them into power. First thing they did was the Enabling Act which enabled Hitler to rule by decree, sound familiar?

87139 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Judith Day, #171 of 1392 🔗

Where did all these Uber Nazis come from? How did they end up as Presidents and Prime Ministers?

86414 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Darryl, 5, #172 of 1392 🔗

And yet, the masks cause anoxia, so you should NOT be operating a vehicle whilst wearing one.
Its the get out of jail free card if in an accident ” Yes officer I saw the other driver wearing a mask and appearing to slump monmentarily behind the wheel”
Im sure the insurance co’s will reeducate the police rapidly if it becomes a thing.

87101 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #173 of 1392 🔗

What’s going on will not be cured by insurance companies. It’s far far bigger than that. As Brian Gerrish from UK Column says, there is a now a coup in progress and the UK government is now being controlled by outsiders.

86136 ▶▶▶ Geraint, replying to T. Prince, 13, #174 of 1392 🔗

It was really disturbing. Everyone should take a look. The impunity the officers seem to enjoy in dragging then flattening this short, young woman to the ground was chilling. Thug officer even happy to give his name on video taken by distraught boyfriend. We need to be vigilant in this country…even Cressida ‘de Menezes’ DICKhead talked of shaming those without masks. Maybe she would like to see her servants soften people up a bit as well….

86201 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Geraint, 3, #175 of 1392 🔗

It will happen when muzzles become mandatory everywhere…..

87102 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to T. Prince, 1, #176 of 1392 🔗

Yes that is coming soon. Things are becoming very serious.

86411 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Geraint, 3, #177 of 1392 🔗

When she goes – which I trust will be after a long, miserable and guilt-wracked life – I’m hoping electricity will be involved somehow.

86587 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, #178 of 1392 🔗

Toby covered it in yesterday’s Update.

87023 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to T. Prince, #179 of 1392 🔗

It was here on Toby’s main page yesterday

86040 Andy Riley, replying to Andy Riley, 2, #180 of 1392 🔗

Biggles has been out again today but not for long:

86240 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Andy Riley, #181 of 1392 🔗

Wot? I’ve not been anywhere near Grantham….

86540 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #182 of 1392 🔗

one flight around Grantham then a second flight to Sywell Aerodrome at Northampton where 2 Excel Aviation Limited , the owners, have another base.
So maybe off to pastures new tomorrow.
interesting web site. they have a company excelgeospatial that does a lot of geo mapping and surveying around forestry, crops and environment using state of the art cameras. So might not be so spooky.

87103 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to mjr, #183 of 1392 🔗

Or they could just be spraying Covid-19 markers.

86043 Will Jones, replying to Will Jones, 6, #184 of 1392 🔗

Is Toby going soft – what’s this ‘full lockdown’ business? Does he support a ‘soft lockdown’? What measures does he think government should have imposed and when should they be lifted? Be interesting to know.

86179 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Will Jones, #185 of 1392 🔗

Will, perhaps time you referred him to some of your articles on Conservative Woman.

86187 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 2, #186 of 1392 🔗

Here’s one: https://conservativewoman.co.uk/why-lockdown-is-useless-the-case-for-the-prosecution/

Regardless, the evidence is that the collective immunity threshold has been reached in the UK and many other countries. There are three dimensions to the proof.
Exhibit A:….
This is strong evidence that the infection rate is slowing down because it is approaching a natural limit, the collective immunity threshold, rather than due to any government intervention or change in public behaviour.

86048 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 3, #187 of 1392 🔗

The Russian vaccine is actually using two human adenovirus vectors with the S protein gene for SARS-CoV-2, pretty neat. Aren’t AstraZeneca using monkey adenovirus, how long have the effects of that been studied?

86060 ▶▶ wendy, replying to IMoz, 2, #188 of 1392 🔗

I don’t know much about vaccines, because I was born at the time of thalidomide I am hesitant about medicines, but you seem to know a bit. Do you think the Russian vaccine will be safe and effective?

86073 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to wendy, 4, #189 of 1392 🔗

If I had the choice, I’d rather be injected with a human virus (once—they use two vector delivery) that causes common cold instead of a monkey one (twice—they use single vector and repeat); but I’m not in any at risk group for COVID-19 (which is pretty much the same risk groups as ‘flu, let’s be frank here) so getting a COVID-19 vaccine for me is as useful as getting an Ebola one…

86592 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, 1, #190 of 1392 🔗

But common colds kill the young and very old. What’s to be gained?

86080 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendy, 1, #191 of 1392 🔗

Likewise grew up with thalidomide all over the telly, bloody scary but I’d already had my school jabs.

That nice Mr Putin says his vaccine is safe so what’s the worry ?

87110 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 1, #192 of 1392 🔗

Thalidomide was a drug, not a vaccine. Interestingly though, drugs are tested far more rigorously than are vaccines.

86112 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to wendy, 2, #193 of 1392 🔗

Poor man’s chloroquine

Use zinc with onions/tea/broccoli (zinc ionophores).


87105 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to wendy, 1, #194 of 1392 🔗

A Russian vaccine or a witches brew from the great depopulator and eugenicist, Bill Gates, are you kidding us? Seriously though, just say no, you don’t need either.

86092 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to IMoz, 4, #195 of 1392 🔗

Apparently Putin gave it to his daughter. (Did he really? We will never know, but still)

I have to give him props. We will not see that from our ‘leaders’.

86098 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Farinances, 4, #196 of 1392 🔗

He described her signs which are on par with reaction to a common cold infection (temperature spike to 38) and given it lasted one day (vectors don’t replicate), it sounds entirely plausible.

86422 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 2, #197 of 1392 🔗

John Gummer fed his daughter a BSE burger, I mean a beef burger, during the mad cow disease panic. Both are still with us. (Not the cow, eighteen months and it’s curtains for them. Beware the New Normal, moosters)

86819 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #198 of 1392 🔗

To be fair, the cow was probably a goner by the time it had been turned into a burger.

87112 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to matt, #199 of 1392 🔗

Very possibly.

86386 ▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 2, #200 of 1392 🔗

how long have the effects of that been studied?”

This is the crucial question. In my view, you have to be a little less than rational (to put it politely) to take a vaccine for a largely inconsequential disease, without extensive RCTs over a substantial time period – sufficient time for (a) results to be significant and (b) for proper peer review to have taken place.

86056 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 25, #201 of 1392 🔗

The truth is that if Boris had stuck to his guns and not imposed a full lockdown Britain’s Covid death toll would be no higher, the collateral death toll would be lower and the economy would be in better shape.

So true

86088 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Victoria, 15, #202 of 1392 🔗

And liberty and truth would not have been irreperably damaged.

86207 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Julian, 3, #203 of 1392 🔗

Correct. I’m what you could describe as ‘long in the tooth’ but everything I believed about society and politics has been turned inside out and back to front. My current view of the world is now my ‘new normal’…

86445 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, 2, #204 of 1392 🔗

Liberty and truth have been damaged for a long time. They are now on life support and urgently need resuscitaton. As we all do.

87113 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Victoria, #205 of 1392 🔗

But the police state agenda would have been struggling to get off the ground.

86068 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 13, #206 of 1392 🔗

Recession, entirely self inflicted by the cowardly Lion (he wishes!) in Number 10. It’s as thought the Tory Parliamentary Party has been ‘groomed’ by the Left to the point that they now actually believe the guff they continue to spout. The next stick fir them to be beaten with is exam results…they must smell Bungler’s blood in the water…

86519 ▶▶ James007, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 8, #207 of 1392 🔗

I saw the headline “Chancellor warns that recession is unprecedented”.
Rather like driving off a cliff and then warning your passengers that the car will be damaged. We are being run by people who literally dont know what they are doing.
It wouldnt surprise me if in a few years, lots of people who remained silent throughout this.. will claim that they were lockdown sceptics.

86784 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to James007, 1, #208 of 1392 🔗

It wouldnt surprise me if in a few years, lots of people who remained silent throughout this.. will claim that they were lockdown sceptics.

Rather like people in France, Netherlands, Norway claiming to be in the Resistance during WW2 when they were actually silent or even passive collaborators.

86069 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 2, #209 of 1392 🔗

Thought we were doing alright in 2003, who was it who sang
“If I didn’t see such riches I could live with being poor” something like that ?

Anyway I’m off down the pub.

86189 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 2, #210 of 1392 🔗


Off down the pub was Sham69, des neh ?

86537 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to JohnB, 2, #211 of 1392 🔗

Urry up Arry, come on…. 😁

86461 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, 1, #212 of 1392 🔗

I was a monthly subscriber to Gourmet Magazine for many years. Near the end I could no longer stand looking at all the lovely photos of everything that only the rich could afford to possess. I would then look around my apartment and think, what a dump! The contrast became so extreme that reading it was no longer a pleasurable experience. I was upset, however, when I read that it had been discontinued a few years back. John Bainbridge’s London chronicle was my favourite. I would love to reread his article on the London Number 11 bus again.

86074 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 19, #213 of 1392 🔗


 Cloth face masks offer zero shield against virus, a study shows
And this is a study from Japan!

86079 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, 4, #214 of 1392 🔗

The most hilarious part is that the Japanese department of “Stating the Obvious” managed to convince someone that it was a worthwhile study to spend money on! 😀

86077 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #215 of 1392 🔗

Describing C-19 pandemic? Wise words from the past

 “A celebrated popular delirium; because in errors, and especially in the errors of a multitude, what seems to me most interesting and most useful to observe, is, the course they have taken, their appearances, and the ways by which they could enter men’s minds, and hold sway there
“The image of this supposed danger beset and tortured the minds of the people far more than the real and existing danger.” – Alessandro Manzoni, I Promessi Sposi,1842 describing the plague and the craziness which enveloped the populace Milano 1630

86082 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, 4, #216 of 1392 🔗

Didn’t they lockdown London during the plague as well, only to discover that the “locked down” households were infecting every member in the same household and killing each other off? I can’t quite remember, but there’s bound to be stories online…

86086 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to IMoz, 4, #217 of 1392 🔗

Think so. Because they were creating ‘plague houses’ (you know where they daubed a red cross on the door) and everyone who lived inside was effectively isolated, the sick members were infecting the well members and whole families died off.

Still — they were only quarantining the sick lol. Unfortunaely they were quarantining them with the healthy. …. similar to what happened in New York

86102 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Farinances, 2, #218 of 1392 🔗

I’m sure there’s a term of art for doing something that you know or ought to know is likely to cause harm… I think it starts with an ‘n’ and ends with an ‘e’ 😉

86495 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to IMoz, 2, #219 of 1392 🔗

Haven’t learned much in the last 400 years have we?

86794 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to richard riewer, 1, #220 of 1392 🔗

literally, not a single thing 😉

87133 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to IMoz, #221 of 1392 🔗

Lockdown was a common practise from ancient tims. City walls helped of course.
During the Peloponesian wars Athens was locked down by the Spartans beseiging them. ‘Plague’ broke out and killed a third of the Athenians.

Medieval house lockins were intended to prevent further spread of the disease within the city. You either died or survived but, if you were the only one. you got to keep all the stuff.

86084 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 1, #222 of 1392 🔗

Big fan. Great book.

86083 tides, replying to tides, 7, #223 of 1392 🔗

Just back from a lovely mask free week in Croatia and very relieved to see that masks are for sale in the sweet machine in baggage reclaim at Gatwick. May just head back up to departures and buy a one way ticket to Croatia.

86115 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to tides, 4, #224 of 1392 🔗

There’s an awful lot of “mask” product to shift – I hope if people do wear a face covering they make it a home made for free one.

86091 wendy, replying to wendy, 17, #225 of 1392 🔗

Two reports for everyone:

First an update on the 94 year old who tested positive 2 weeks ago after one of her home carers had a positive test. She never developed any symptoms. She has been supported by her son and wife during her quarantine, they tested negative at the time. No one has developed any symptoms. Positive stories like this never make the media as they don’t fit the fear agenda.

Second update is about the test centre where I have been doing voluntary marshalling. It is in the northern restriction zone. I have come home early as they had only 6 swab tests booked in all day and these were all preoperative tests. These are tests people who are to undertake hospital treatment must take 3 days before admission. This test centre was doing antibody blood tests on NHS staff but this is no longer happening as the staff did not want to undertake these tests. They didn’t see the point given all the reasons antibodies might not show up. This test centre might close. Again something like this never gets reported.

The continued fear agenda I see as political, an attempt to bring the government down. This is abhorrent as it is causing suffering, sadness, loss and deaths. Someone in government must standup and take control.

86096 ▶▶ mjr, replying to wendy, 9, #226 of 1392 🔗

and sadly, if she dies of old age, she will be counted as a Covid death

86101 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to mjr, 8, #227 of 1392 🔗

Yes that’s how the stats are being counted isn’t it. At 94 she could have a fall, break her hip. People can’t live for ever. And I think many frail elderly don’t want to live for ever

86157 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to wendy, 1, #228 of 1392 🔗

just watching news about the train derailment in scotland. Looks serious. Hopefully there will be no fatalities. However am i too cynical to wonder if there are, how many have had covid positive tests and how will their deaths be recorded?

86333 ▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to mjr, 1, #229 of 1392 🔗

We should not get into insensitive territory but wouldn’t put it past NS to mention that the rolling stock is apparently 40-year old cast-offs from – England of course.

86420 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kf99, 2, #230 of 1392 🔗

The stock has been heavily refurbished and had a lot of money spent on it,much better than a lot of the new crap we have in England now.

86279 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendy, 1, #231 of 1392 🔗

True, but this valiant soul surely doesn’t want to die of neglect before her time, either, as seems to be happening to so many.

86107 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to wendy, 7, #232 of 1392 🔗

Good news on both counts!

Very encouraged about your test centre report. No wonder they are sending contact tracers to knock on doors – brandishing tests no doubt. I acrually want them to start doing this – mostly because it brings the problem to people’s doors and will hopefully wake them up. Got a stranger on your doorstep asking about your every move and offering to stick a swab into your brain cavity? No, you’re not being stalked- this is the state calling, in order to ‘protect’ you. Honestly I think most people will find this sinister.

87136 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendy, #233 of 1392 🔗

Same here , whenever I pass the testing station there is never any traffic in or out. If people were really so scared of the Covid you might expect lengthy queues but there aren’t.

86103 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 18, #234 of 1392 🔗

Sweden does not just have a smaller GDP contraction, it also has a smaller increase in government debt/GDP than all other countries.
And only the latter ‘saved’ the headline figures from dropping to -25 to -35% levels, which is the true size of decline of the private sector in most other countries.
That economic damage is also more skewed to multinational exporters there, instead of to small domestic businesses, like everywhere else.

And if everyone had done like Sweden, Sweden, and everyone else, would have gotten away with a mild recession only, and no need for any government aid programs and their resulting debt explosions.
Therefore alone, the popular argument that Sweden’s strategy didn’t work or didn’t save the economy, is plain wrong.

Anf because of that, Sweden and a handful of other countries are also the only ones who do not have the blood of millions of dead people in the 3rd world on their hands, people that weren’t killed by the virus or their countries lockdowns, but by the economic effects of our lockdowns there!

86499 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jay Berger, #235 of 1392 🔗

Now is Sweden’s opportunity to create a global financial power base.

86104 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 32, #236 of 1392 🔗

From an e-mail I’ve received, interesting studies on masks:

“As a person who went to medical school, I was shocked when I read Neil Orr’s study , published in 1981 in the Annals of the Royal College of Surgeons of England. Dr. Orr was a surgeon in the Severalls Surgical Unit in Colchester. And for six months, from March through August 1980, the surgeons and staff in that unit decided to see what would happen if they did not wear masks during surgeries. They wore no masks for six months, and compared the rate of surgical wound infections from March through August 1980 with the rate of wound infections from March through August of the previous four years. And they discovered, to their amazement, that when nobody wore masks during surgeries, the rate of wound infections was less than half what it was when everyone wore masks. Their conclusion: “ It would appear that minimum contamination can best be achieved by not wearing a mask at all ” and that wearing a mask during surgery “ is a standard procedure that could be abandoned .””

Here is the original study published on the NIH website so it’s official:


The e-mail the lists these studies:

  • Ritter et al. , in 1975, found that “ the wearing of a surgical face mask had no effect upon the overall operating room environmental contamination .”
  • Ha’eri and Wiley , in 1980, applied human albumin microspheres to the interior of surgical masks in 20 operations. At the end of each operation, wound washings were examined under the microscope. “ Particle contamination of the wound was demonstrated in all experiments .”
  • Laslett and Sabin , in 1989, found that caps and masks were not necessary during cardiac catheterization. “ No infections were found in any patient, regardless of whether a cap or mask was used ,” they wrote. Sjøl and Kelbaek came to the same conclusion in 2002.
  • In Tunevall’s 1991 study , a general surgical team wore no masks in half of their surgeries for two years. After 1,537 operations performed with masks, the wound infection rate was 4.7%, while after 1,551 operations performed without masks, the wound infection rate was only 3.5%.
  • A review by Skinner and Sutton in 2001 concluded that “ The evidence for discontinuing the use of surgical face masks would appear to be stronger than the evidence available to support their continued use.
  • Lahme et al. , in 2001, wrote that “ surgical face masks worn by patients during regional anaesthesia, did not reduce the concentration of airborne bacteria over the operation field in our study. Thus they are dispensable .”
  • Figueiredo et al. , in 2001, reported that in five years of doing peritoneal dialysis without masks, rates of peritonitis in their unit were no different than rates in hospitals where masks were worn.
  • Bahli did a systematic literature review in 2009 and found that “ no significant difference in the incidence of postoperative wound infection was observed between masks groups and groups operated with no masks.
  • Surgeons at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, recognizing the lack of evidence supporting the use of masks, ceased requiring them in 2010 for anesthesiologists and other non-scrubbed personnel in the operating room. “ Our decision to no longer require routine surgical masks for personnel not scrubbed for surgery is a departure from common practice. But the evidence to support this practice does not exist ,” wrote Dr. Eva Sellden.
  • Webster et al. , in 2010, reported on obstetric, gynecological, general, orthopaedic, breast and urological surgeries performed on 827 patients. All non-scrubbed staff wore masks in half the surgeries, and none of the non-scrubbed staff wore masks in half the surgeries. Surgical site infections occurred in 11.5% of the Mask group, and in only 9.0% of the No Mask group.
  • Lipp and Edwards reviewed the surgical literature in 2014 and found “ no statistically significant difference in infection rates between the masked and unmasked group in any of the trials .” Vincent and Edwards updated this review in 2016 and the conclusion was the same.
  • Carøe , in a 2014 review based on four studies and 6,006 patients, wrote that “ none of the four studies found a difference in the number of post-operative infections whether you used a surgical mask or not .”
  • Salassa and Swiontkowski , in 2014, investigated the necessity of scrubs, masks and head coverings in the operating room and concluded that “ there is no evidence that these measures reduce the prevalence of surgical site infection .”
  • Da Zhou et al. , reviewing the literature in 2015, concluded that “ there is a lack of sub

No surprise to anyone in sceptics and is it?

86114 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #237 of 1392 🔗

Urm. Ok that’s open and shut for me

86133 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #238 of 1392 🔗

wow good work…amazing.
So why not just wear the mask and help keep people safe? I just don’t understand where you are coming from.

86163 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Two-Six, 2, #239 of 1392 🔗

😂 Who needs a mask when I’ve got one of your badges 👍 thanks for the note too, made it more personal and supportive.

86303 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to ambwozere, 1, #240 of 1392 🔗

Glad you got them. I tried with the note.

86200 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 2, #241 of 1392 🔗

Just being awkward and I’m not in general a “people person”, 97% of them are oxygen thieves (those who read this website not included in that of course).

I read the theories about population reduction and so on, look around me especially now and think “those rich buggers who want this lot killed off, I can sympathise with that. Where and how do I join the club?”

I know, you were being sarcastic – I think the little face thingy is winking. Not up to speed on this modern texting tuff.

86306 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, #242 of 1392 🔗

I was being sarcastic, a great post for sure

86220 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #243 of 1392 🔗

Actually it did surprise me on a first reading.
But on second thoughts, it doesn’t. I’m just so used to seeing masked surgeons on TV that I automatically assumed masks were crucial.
Thank you for enlightening me!

86223 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to annie, 2, #244 of 1392 🔗

Surprised me as well but that is what it says in the study as the conclusion, pretty definite and repeatable time after time by others.

86869 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #245 of 1392 🔗

I think it’s another case of reassurig the patient!

87140 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #246 of 1392 🔗

Makes me think I’m in never ending episode of Dr. Kidare.

86456 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #247 of 1392 🔗

Wow. Great find, Awkward Git. I know just the people to beat up with it :o))

86105 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #248 of 1392 🔗


Tory candidate quits over remark

A Conservative election challenger is quitting after being quoted as wanting a “period of creative destruction in the public services.


A concept relevant to Government by Chaos. These are phychopaths.

86197 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #249 of 1392 🔗

That’s taught him/her who the real ptb are these days.

86111 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 11, #250 of 1392 🔗

Things are starting to move, very slowly and cautiously, in the right and rational direction in the German MSM:
The ultra-left TAZ published a critical article by two epidimiologists, and a mainstream media station has for the first time ever criticized the constant changes of criteria set by the government and the RKI, from ftc, via R, via 50/100000 to absolute number of cases. His conclusion:
“If you have no goal, or constantly change it, you won’t ever reach it/one!”

86198 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Jay Berger, #251 of 1392 🔗

Karl Popper had a better idea: if you have no falsifiablilty you have no hypothesis

86221 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 1, #252 of 1392 🔗

Isn’t that a basic scientific assumption?

86116 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #253 of 1392 🔗

Searching the internet I came across only one online hit and that was a newspaper in Kent that mentions the parliamentary committee on 21 July 2020 but although it gives a few quotes from Whitty from that day it doesn’t mention his biggest and greatest so I contacted the editor to ask why not.

I then came across the website of Dean Russell, MP for Watford, who boasts he is proud that fellow MPs picked him dos ere on the Health and Social Care Committee so I sent him this e-mail:

“I have had no reply from the chair of the Health and Social Care Committee Jeremy Hunt about this issue so as I found your website that says you are proud to serve on the Committee then I will put it to you:

Nowhere on your website does it mention the absolutely most important and momentous quote from CMO Chris Whitty on the 21st July 2020:

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

Why was he not challenged on this at the time by anyone on the Committee?

Why is this statement not being reported by ANY media outlet?

This one comment totally undermines and destroys the whole narrative of “following the science” to justify population lockdown and proves Sweden, Tanzania and Belarus among a very few others followed the correct course and 2000 years of medical experience dealing with these types of illnesses was the correct “treatment protocol”.

This, in effect, means that “the virus” infection rate was dropping drastically BEFORE the incarceration of the population started and that the existing precautions – wash hands properly, coughing etiquette, stay at home if you feel ill – were effectively controlling the spread of “the virus”.

It also means that the peak of the infections occurred PRIOR to the population incarceration commenced and as the average time from catching “the virus” to death has been widely stated as 23 days with the peak numbers of deaths occurring approximately 10-14 days from commencement of the incarceration it means that the imprisonment of the population and destruction of the economy has had NO effect whatsoever.

At the same Committee hearing the Chair, MP Jeremy Hunt stated “We all know that voluntary social distancing was introduced on 16 March, and it was made compulsory a week later on 23 March.”

It is ‘guidance” which has NO force of law nor is enforceable in England.

As the Chair of the relevant Committee and a Member of Parliament surely he knows that social distancing has never been law in England? If not, why not?

And why did no Committee member or witness challenge him on this statement?

Here is a link to a video I had made for me by parliamentlivetv of the relevant section of the committee hearing:

It’s 23 MB so too big too e-mail.

You can download it yourself on their website – set the start time at 10:58:00 and end time as 11:01 – their instructions are easy to follow.”

Anyone out there in sceptics land from Watford and has Dean Russell as their MP? His auto reply says he can only answer to his constituents and no-one else so feel free to send this on to him as a constituent.

I addressed it to him as a select committee member so just maybe he may read my e-mail.

86224 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #254 of 1392 🔗

I should bloody well hope so. Well written and researched!

86118 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #255 of 1392 🔗

My previous posting is awaiting approval as it has lots of links to studies on masks in it (none of which say they work) so here it is in brief:

From an e-mail I’ve received, interesting studies on masks:

“As a person who went to medical school, I was shocked when I read Neil ore’s study, published in 1981 in the Annals of the Royal College of Surgeons of England. Dr. Orr was a surgeon in the Severalls Surgical Unit in Colchester. And for six months, from March through August 1980, the surgeons and staff in that unit decided to see what would happen if they did not wear masks during surgeries. They wore no masks for six months, and compared the rate of surgical wound infections from March through August 1980 with the rate of wound infections from March through August of the previous four years. And they discovered, to their amazement, that when nobody wore masks during surgeries, the rate of wound infections was less than half what it was when everyone wore masks. Their conclusion: “ It would appear that minimum contamination can best be achieved by not wearing a mask at all ” and that wearing a mask during surgery “ is a standard procedure that could be abandoned .”

Here is the original study published on the NIH website so it’s official:


87145 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, #256 of 1392 🔗

Horrendous reading but it would at least make sense if that was the plan all along and our muppet population would go along with it just get out of this shitty government created lockdown.

87146 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, #257 of 1392 🔗

Sorry, that was meant to be in reply to Jay Berger, below.

86124 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 21, #258 of 1392 🔗

The article on the Health Passport is a must read.
Truly scary and dystopian and, apparently, already well underway!
It is of utmost importance to resist its introduction and as such first and foremost to try to stop this in its tracks ASAP.
Certainly a huge priority for immediate legal action, IMO.

86132 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #259 of 1392 🔗

It is literally straight out of an episode of “Black Mirror”!!

86159 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #260 of 1392 🔗

What’s fascinating is that one of the countries signed up to this is Sweden. Which given their stance on the virus is a bit strange. Though I”m guessing this kind of thing is years in the planning so has been around for a while waiting for an opportunity to release it.

86184 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #261 of 1392 🔗

I agree. Very scary article.

88853 ▶▶ Gwen, replying to Jay Berger, #262 of 1392 🔗

There is a legal challenge underway to stop it

86125 Malpractice, 32, #263 of 1392 🔗

I wonder how many of the new ‘cases’ are in those who have recovered from a mild or asymptomatic infection and are simply continuing to shed non viable viral matter and now being picked up incidentally by the increased population testing? Maybe they were always asymptomatic from a previous infection? Whatever the final answer when we can look back sensibly we have not seen any new sick patients in my hospital and even the national (inflated) numbers of admissions and questionable Covid attributed fatalities seem to have fallen off a cliff as well. I think the pandemic is all but over but no one has the confidence to admit it and face up to the economic catastrophe we now face.

No one else is going to go back on public transport or to the shops until these idiotic mandates on useless face coverings persist and people continue to be paid to be on holiday by the state.

None of the fellow medics in the hospital dept I work in believes face masks make the slightest difference but simply go along with the crowd in unquestioning group think under the misguided impression the public think they are effective and don’t want to rock the boat or appear to question management or politicians in public. They have lost the ability to think for themselves. All the patients I see hate them and I am happy and encourage them to remove them to facilitate communication etc. The medical establishment seems to have completely lost the plot. All dissent and the growing contradictory evidence against the lockdown from other countries is seemingly censored by the MSM and BBC.

The NHS is looking at a catastrophe in the coming months from the new waiting lists which will take months if not years to deal with if things continue as they are now.

86126 Liam, replying to Liam, 12, #264 of 1392 🔗

The fear mongering and panic porn has been turned up to 11 again in virtually every single MSM outlet, simultaneously.

But they don’t work to order or anything, oh no.

86169 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Liam, 3, #265 of 1392 🔗

I noticed that….. 🤔

86173 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Winston Smith, #266 of 1392 🔗

Funny, I just reread a certain book with a character called Winston Smith. Can’t remember what it was called…..

86192 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Liam, 2, #267 of 1392 🔗

It is??
I don’t look at or read anything in the MSM any more except for a few specific linked articles, just for the WTF?? factor.

86212 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Lms23, 1, #268 of 1392 🔗

I manage to avoid virtually all of it but it finds its way into what should be innocent pleasures like watching the sports channels or listening to music on the radio in the car.

86228 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Liam, 4, #269 of 1392 🔗

I ,isten to Classic FM, as soon as music ends, sound off, wait a bit, check, if music heard keep sound on, if not, keep sound off. I do it automatically now.

86217 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Liam, 2, #270 of 1392 🔗

Yes likewise. It’s almost as it goes quiet and someone clicks a button and reboots the fear.

We are testing more so we are seeing more cases, is that so hard for the MSM to comprehend?

Those infected are not at risk and get better.

Move on.

86129 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 19, #271 of 1392 🔗

The story about that 33 year old teacher from Florida writing her own obituary because she thinks she’ll die from Covid when she goes back to school. What in the world is she on.

“Even though she shouted from the rooftops, attempted to be unemotional, and educated herself in facts and science, she succumbed to the ignorance of those in power”

I wonder what facts she educated herself with to form the opinion that a healthy 33 year old will succumb to a virus where the average age of death is around 80 and where most people are asymptomatic.

She must get her facts from the same place as Boris.

86144 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Hubes, 11, #272 of 1392 🔗

Mental illness, nothing less.

86154 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Liam, 9, #273 of 1392 🔗

And attention seeking

86185 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Hubes, 3, #274 of 1392 🔗

I agree with the attention seeking – ME! ME! MEEEEEE!!! LOOK AT ME!

86178 ▶▶ anon, replying to Hubes, 3, #275 of 1392 🔗

33 again

86196 ▶▶ anon, replying to Hubes, 1, #276 of 1392 🔗

33 you say?

86275 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to anon, 3, #277 of 1392 🔗

Yeah, the magic number.
Ought to be 666.

86215 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Hubes, 6, #278 of 1392 🔗

Feel sorry for her pupils. What level of education must they be receiving from someone like that?

86250 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Hubes, 3, #279 of 1392 🔗

Profound stupidity.

86259 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Hubes, 4, #280 of 1392 🔗

Leave her alone. She only has a 99.9995% chance of survival.

86260 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Hubes, 3, #281 of 1392 🔗

Yet her opinion gets the headlines and continues the fear.

86130 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 29, #282 of 1392 🔗

You will be pleased to know that our quarantine ends today after we had the temerity to travel to a country which was on the good list when we left the UK but put on the naughty list the day after we arrived there.

Were we contacted at any stage during this fortnight to check that we were being good boys and girls? No

Did it make the slightest bit of difference to our everyday life? No

86194 ▶▶ anon, replying to Margaret, 2, #283 of 1392 🔗

congrats on being free again!

oh wait a minute..

86229 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 1, #284 of 1392 🔗

Glad to hear you ignored this poisonous tosh.

86140 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 6, #285 of 1392 🔗


Prof Heneghan andTom Jefferson in today’s Spectator.

Free article.

86181 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 1, #286 of 1392 🔗

Good article!

86142 Awkward Git, 15, #287 of 1392 🔗

Getting bored waiting for kebabs to marinate so looked at the WHO pages on pneumonia:


They give some facts:

  • Pneumonia accounts for 15% of all deaths of children under 5 years old, killing 808 694 children in 2017. – so why did no-one bother with these deaths EVERY year?
  • Pneumonia can be caused by viruses, bacteria, or fungi. yep, all in the mouth naturally or growing on wet sticky masks
  • Pneumonia can be prevented by immunization, adequate nutrition, and by addressing environmental factors. good nutrition? Not in the NHS vocabulary.

Mentioned again: Adequate nutrition is key to improving children’s natural defences

One line that caught my eye was:

The viruses and bacteria that are commonly found in a child’s nose or throat, can infect the lungs if they are inhaled.”

So all those muzzled, sanctimonious, moronic wankers muzzling their kids are going to be responsible for their illness.

I’m going to make a prediction here being as jaded and cynical as I am:

  • increase in bacterial pneumonia infections in children seen starting about now then rising rapidly in a few weeks
  • starts to peak about October just after schools have re-opened
  • will be labelled as coronavirus as the symptoms are basically the same
  • wrong treatment given and children die
  • big lockdown “for the cheeeeeldren” as they are dropping like flies from coronavirus when all they needed was a course of amoxicillin

I hope I’m wrong.

and this one which has some good graphs etc:


86143 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 11, #288 of 1392 🔗

I just came across this article :

“These Are Good Public Health Behaviors” – New Mexico Tyrant Governor Announces She Will Keep COVID-19 Practices in Place Even After Pandemic

“New Mexicans are enlisting legislators to call for an extraordinary session. Here’s a post from NM Extraordinary Session Facebook page (posted August 8 at 2:31 pm):

“This week, the Governor stated that she wants to continue all of her current restrictions whether we get a COVID vaccine or not.
Let’s be clear about what that means.
Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham’s orders have been made under the auspices of her executive emergency powers. The NM Supreme Court has upheld her orders because of that interpretation. Only in a crisis could an elected official get away with shutting down places of business, schools, churches, and declaring gatherings of 5 people or more a violation of the law.
That’s because under any ordinary circumstances, these orders violate the constitutional right to freedom of association.
(Governor Grisham notably made exceptions to her own rule for mass protests this summer, but has made no such accommodation for public gatherings of groups she disagrees with. The fact is that it’s the constitutional right of any group of people to publicly gather and peacefully protest, and no elected official should be picking who is allowed to exercise their rights and who isn’t.)
So why would the Governor imply that she intends to suspend the right to freedom of association indefinitely?
All this statement tells us for sure is that the Governor’s intentions are to not lift these restrictions, regardless of COVID case numbers.
A group of concerned citizens is calling for action.”

What’s the betting more state governors and other governments do the same thing, i.e. remove your freedoms permanently? In the U.S., they have the Constitution to fall back on, to fight back against this tyranny. Other countries don’t.

86152 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lms23, 3, #289 of 1392 🔗


86494 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lms23, #290 of 1392 🔗

It’s no surprise. This is why Dolan’s case here is essential. Power is a drug and hard to resist.

86149 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #291 of 1392 🔗

Looks like another one joining Yorkshire Tea in committing corporate suicide by going woke:


BTW, Yorkshire Tea in Morrisons with 50% extra in large pack going for around a fiver.

86226 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #292 of 1392 🔗

Mason Mills was discussing B&J today on the Patreon site. Apparently they have got a world of pain heading their way.

86249 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Sarigan, #293 of 1392 🔗


aren’t patreon in warm water too? some law suit with arbitration fees or something? for censorship

86793 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, #294 of 1392 🔗

Not surprised.They didn’t learn from Gillette and Yorkshire Tea – go woke, go broke

86258 ▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #295 of 1392 🔗

Please boycott Yorkshire Tea.

86272 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Locked down and out, 6, #296 of 1392 🔗

Am doing.
And there’s far better ice cream to be had than BJ goo.

86797 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #297 of 1392 🔗

Haagen Daz, Jude’s, even supermarket own brand are better!

86317 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Locked down and out, 1, #298 of 1392 🔗

Sainsbury’s does a good organic fair-traded tea. Yorkshire tea is neither of those anyway.

86796 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Locked down and out, #299 of 1392 🔗

I’d rather drink Twinings 😂

86953 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #300 of 1392 🔗

Jasmine tea with honey. Yummy!

86503 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #301 of 1392 🔗
86607 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #302 of 1392 🔗


ironically i I feel as though I would like to flee the war, torture (both side effects of the corona pschological operation) and climate change (that last ones a scam but I’d still like to flee the devotees ie corrupt gov)

do you think B&J might advise where I can flee to? that would be so nice of them. I would even buy some of their overpriced icedcream!

86802 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, #303 of 1392 🔗

Spot on!!!

86151 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 13, #304 of 1392 🔗

‘Lockdownus hystericalis’: a species of spineless organism; known for its extreme gullibility and unquestioning obedience to govt nonsense. – Causes: economic destruction

86193 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Geraint, 7, #305 of 1392 🔗

Symptoms – obtaining news and information from MSM, government briefings, antisocial media, hysteria

How to spot – wearing muzzles (gloves optional), excessive use of hand sanitiser, blocking and unfriending people on antisocial media who sprout contrary views, fretting about “second wave”, obsessive adherence to antisocial distancing measures and happily gives data for NHS T&T

Extreme behaviour – shaming people on antisocial media, calling people who aren’t wearing muzzles out, lack of compassion for those with disabilities and abused by the police as well as those suffering from discomfort from wearing muzzles.

Cure – Sadly there is no known cure yet however some experts believe that a recession coupled with job redundancy and bankruptcy could be an effective cure. If over a certain age, taxation of pension schemes and abolition of the triple lock is seen as effective.

86156 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 15, #306 of 1392 🔗

I can understand why someone in Toby’s position might be wary of endorsing a group involving Piers Corbyn in a leading position. But the trouble is these are the people taking to the streets and protesting every week and getting attention. The government, MSM and public take no notice of us on here.

If there was a Lockdown Sceptics rally based on the mainstream issues on this site I would certainly attend – and be willing to help out with. I feel if we are to win people over to our point we need to concentrate on issues such as the economy and petty diktats, people switch off if 5G or mandatory vaccinations are mentioned. Time seems to be running out.

86170 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Darryl, 5, #307 of 1392 🔗

Yes I would help. We perhaps need them in various parts of the country

86177 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, 11, #308 of 1392 🔗

I tend to think 5G is irrelevant, but I admit I am ignorant.

Mandatory vaccinations are highly relevant. I don’t want someone forcing a needle into my arm or those of my loved ones, or anyone come to that. Neither do I think any measures to make them defacto mandatory by restricting access to services and freedom if you haven’t had them are morally justifiable.

86190 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Julian, 8, #309 of 1392 🔗

I completely agree. I hate the idea of mandatory vaccinations but if the public who seem on the whole to be desperate to take anything the government tells them, if they see anything criticising the vaccine, they immediately become aggressive and hostile. The public have been programmed by the MSM to see as anyone who doesn’t take the vaccine out of personal choice as an enemy of science and evil anti-vaxxer (both which are complete lies and propaganda).

86206 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, 6, #310 of 1392 🔗

Well, I am not so sure about that. Some of the public see it like that, but I think many who are neutral might see mandatory vaccinations as a step too far. We don’t have them for anything else.

86290 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Julian, 3, #311 of 1392 🔗

I think if you asked the public this time last year and said should people be mandatory vaccinated with a rushed vaccine against a virus with 99.9% survival rate for most age groups, people would have said no.

But the weak minded have been worn down by month of propaganda much of it from organisations with links to the Bill and Mellinda Gates Foundation (such as the BBC and Guardian).

86312 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 2, #312 of 1392 🔗

Ah but this is an UNPRECEDENTED situation!

86242 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Darryl, 5, #313 of 1392 🔗

yes they haven’t quite figured out that this upcoming super duper vaccine mightn’t be so good for them

speculated a while ago but are they culling the stupid?

we’re constantly told (there are far too many of us) by the same apparatus that is pushing this agenda right now

does anyone remember prince philip’s quote about reincarnation? when asked it was something along the lines of… he would like to return as a virus and wipe out most of humanity

they really do hate us

86310 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to anon, 3, #314 of 1392 🔗

Philip does give a lot of credence to the reptilian rumours …..

86340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #315 of 1392 🔗

apparently may be adrenochrome

87134 ▶▶▶▶ H K, replying to Darryl, 2, #316 of 1392 🔗

I don’t think the covid vaccine is popular as you think. Yes there are always some that will definitely take it, but there are a growing number who will refuse it as reported in the media. Apparently there were polls saying that people who will take a covid vaccine is now at it’s lowest level in the US (i’d say it’s falling here too).
Yale Uni are doing a study on how best to convince the public to take the vaccine (basically it’s propaganda) because a significant amount of people are dead against taking this vaccine.

Del Bigtree (The High Wire) and Robert F Kennedy’s campaigning has been an eye-opener to many people!

86204 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, #317 of 1392 🔗

There won’t be mandatory vaccinations,

86208 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 7, #318 of 1392 🔗

I hope you are right but don’t share your confidence. My MP refused to rule it out. What makes you say there won’t be? Would you have predicted that this government would have enacted the measures restricting liberty that they have done, at the start?

86222 ▶▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Will, 5, #319 of 1392 🔗

Pratt Hancock would make them mandatory if he could.

86227 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 5, #320 of 1392 🔗

What would stop him from doing so? I doubt you’d get enough votes against in parliament. As I said earlier, my MP, a Conservative, refused to rule it out. That suggests to me they have been told to say that because she toes the party line on everything.

86245 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 2, #321 of 1392 🔗

then death by a thousands jabs for hancock it is then!

oh and the fucker has to be muzzled throughout too

maybe we could give him 1 a day for a thousand days.. yes that sounds more appropriate

86956 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to anon, #322 of 1392 🔗

We could make a film. Let’s call it ‘Matt of a thousand days’.

86230 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Will, 4, #323 of 1392 🔗

Yesterday the Scottish Parliament extended the Scottish covid emergency bill to Match 2021. As part of the very few questions and pre agreed ‘debate’ in the chamber it was specifically mentioned that the bill contains power to mandate medical intervention. This was poken of in the chamber as being of use for both covid19 (the term used) and also Flu.

The words were spoken by Michael Russell in response to a labour question.
This is the debate where this was spoken: https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/emergency-scots-covid-laws-extended-next-march-2939201

86265 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 5, #324 of 1392 🔗

Farewell to democracy,informed consent and free speech. The odious hate crime bill is still on the cards.

86270 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 4, #325 of 1392 🔗

It’s against the European Convention on Human Rights.

“The right to respect for private life guaranteed by Article 8 of the Convention has assumed particular prominence in the Court’s case-law on “the right to health”. The Court has interpreted the notion of private life as covering the right to the protection of one’s physical, moral and psychological integrity, as well as the right to choose, or to exercise one’s personal autonomy – for example, to refuse medical treatment or to request a particular form of medical treatment (Glass v. the United Kingdom, §§ 74-83; Tysiąc v. Poland).


86305 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 4, #326 of 1392 🔗

Yes, but such rights can always be “balanced” against other rights, and”rights”, to negate such protections. That’s how protection of political freedom of speech came to an end in Europe. We supposedly had a right to that as well. (We still have the right, of course, it’s just not protected in Europe and the UK.)

86356 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to annie, #327 of 1392 🔗

Thanks for that info.

86372 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 1, #328 of 1392 🔗

Yes thanks. We know its badly wrong. I cannot read PDFs on phone but have saved link.

I believe tgere is a huge gulf between parliament giving themselves emergency powers probably aimed at local area clusters to a full nation of force vaccination. They can cart people off to secure locations for medical assessment under UK wide covid bill powers. Children with out parents consent or presence too.

But on the main point of nationwide vaccination. They only have coercion.

86283 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Will, 5, #329 of 1392 🔗

They might not officially be made mandatory as in that they will strap you down and inject you. But they will make life incredibly difficult for those that don’t have it, via travel restrictions and restrictions on employment and perhaps even disqualification from state benefits. The Bill Gates and Big Pharma vaccination agenda is very sinister.

87138 ▶▶▶▶ H K, replying to Will, #330 of 1392 🔗

They won’t make it mandatory outright, but effectively they will by the backdoor. No vaccine? No access to sports grounds, concerts, travel, can’t enroll children in school etc.
That’s what Bill Gates has been pushing since day one of the lockdown (digital immunity certificate) – it’s called Covidpass! And in Africa they are trialling the same idea but the app is linked to a Mastercard payments system (Wellness pass).

86304 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 3, #331 of 1392 🔗

I suspect 5G is key to the “Health Passport”.
Nobody needs to download a film at lightning speed.

86354 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #332 of 1392 🔗

5G technology is apparently very good at accurate location tracking (if device use is widespread). I also understand that it will be very important for the roll out of facial recognition technology as illustrated in the BBC Office of 2025 propaganda the other day. It gives authorities and big tech an incredible amount of data on our daily movements and transactions we make (payment via facial recognition technology is here already) – we are going to be very controlled but they will sell the idea as convenience.

86362 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Darryl, 3, #333 of 1392 🔗

I’ve read reports that it doesn’t work that well if the devices are less than about 4 ft apart.

Closer than that the device can still receive/send data and not get tangled up with the other devices but that the 5G system cannot actually tell exactly what device is where other than “they are all in this little group somewhere”.

6ft is probably the minimum separation distance for the system to accurately determine individual devices real locations.

Strange how that is the social distancing separation distance as well isn’t it?

Researched 5G and EMFs a lot over the years as the wife has bad electro-magnetic hypersensitivity and there is a lot of info out there about EMFs.

87143 ▶▶▶▶▶ H K, replying to Darryl, #334 of 1392 🔗

What we’ll see with 5G is the infrastructure for a China style ‘social credit’ system in the UK (& the West) – thouse who don’t know what it is, just google it! Big Brother on steroids!

86459 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Julian, #335 of 1392 🔗

5G is totally irrelevant. It is no different from any other radio transmitter signal including 2G, 3G, 4G and all the TV and radio transmitters. It characteristics have been know for many years and although at high power levels there may be some heat damage to the body, at the power levels used by mobile phone transmitters the effects are negligible. It (or any other radio signal) has no effect on viruses of any sort.

86444 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Darryl, 1, #336 of 1392 🔗

Agree. They seem to get the numbers to attend the rally’s and also get mentioned in the news.

86457 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Darryl, 4, #337 of 1392 🔗

I don’t care who it is. Even if it’s David bloody Icke. I’ll go if it’s near me and if I can.

Being batshit crazy and right on this one issue is more valuable than being right on everything but not allying with crazy when it matters.

87144 ▶▶▶ H K, replying to Farinances, #338 of 1392 🔗

check out http://www.standupx.info to see if there’s a protest near you, so e-mail them if you want them to organise one in your area if possible

87131 ▶▶ H K, replying to Darryl, 1, #339 of 1392 🔗

I’ve been to a couple of these protests at Hyde Park (im not an organiser just an attendee). One of them was properly organised with the police and we wnet down Oxford Street and to BBC HQ to protest them too, then down to Whitehall.

Standup X isn’t Piers Corbyn’s group, but he has attended some of them to give speeches.

I know he is Jeremy’s brother, but i’m not going hold hat against Piers – he knows his stuff! He is also against Extinction Rebellion and is a climate change skeptic (I think he has a phd in meteorology).

Stand up X collaborates informally with Save our rights and Keep Britain Free, so these protests are a coalition.
Those that follow this site are free to come down and maybe print off a bullet point factsheet and advertisement to this site to give out to the public

It’s an extremely wide mix of people, young/old, various races & class. Some are deep into heavy conspiracy thoeries, others are just worried about the loss of civil liberties and the destruction of the economy. However we are all lockdown skeptics.
I think there’s another protest planned and they are trying to organise a number of doctors who are critical of the official narative to speak.
It’s a proper grass roots thing but growing extremely fast when comparing it to the first march I went to and the most recent one in London.
It’s not perfect by any means and like a political party, you may not aree with all the policies & views, but overall they are at least on the street trying to do something.
This site (among many others) is great to share as a resource once we get people’s attention at these marches, then they can to go further in details of the evidence.
You simply can’t explain the infomation on this site in detail on a protest on the street – it’s merely to get attention to the issues then having the conversation afterwards.

The reality is, as great as this site is, it’s not going to change anything on it’s own.

The vaccines are an important issue and many people are worried about the safety of it considering how rushed it is – even if they are not necessarily a lockdown skeptic!

86160 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 9, #340 of 1392 🔗

Zombies R Us here in Sturgeon land: sunny, warm and breezy here today.

Fresh air! Good for the breathing apparatus, but, about 75% are now gagged when walking about outdoors.


I’m now wondering whether this senseless and protracted obstruction of normal inhalation and exhalation might not result in a rise in upper airways infections when the annual flu season starts.

Oral and facial symptoms are already manifesting apparently.

Absolutely no evidence to support this, but it’s occurred to me recently while I’m out Zombie spotting.

What do others think?

Probably impossible to establish definitive correlation let alone causation.

86219 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to wendyk, 4, #341 of 1392 🔗

“Stupid is as stupid does” – Forest Gump, 1994

86301 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Nobody2020, #342 of 1392 🔗

That wasn’t Tom Hanks by any chance?

86165 Moomin, 3, #343 of 1392 🔗

Such sad news yet so predictable! When will the public wake up?

86166 mjr, replying to mjr, 10, #344 of 1392 🔗

it is a long long time since i did my A levels. My results were not very good. However i recall my mocks were ok. Is it too late to have the results changed so that i can have the grades from my mocks ?

86203 ▶▶ anon, replying to mjr, 3, #345 of 1392 🔗

computer says


86168 Basics, replying to Basics, 25, #346 of 1392 🔗

Absolutely brilliant ‘Government by Chaos’, by Guy de la Bédoyère. An outstanding and well founded overview of our predicament. One to save and reread. Thank you Guy.

“The UK Government is veering towards irrelevance at least to a significant proportion of the population.”

I am already there. Just a matter of how and how much to get rid of.

86202 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Basics, 9, #347 of 1392 🔗

How about a coup and take over the government?

86234 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to ambwozere, 3, #348 of 1392 🔗

I thought we were currently doing that ‘coup the coup!’ I am off to make a tshirt…

86241 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Basics, 2, #349 of 1392 🔗

Post a picture of it and let’s us know where to get one 👍

86246 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to ambwozere, 5, #350 of 1392 🔗

It’s already taking place.
But we won’t be ‘taking over’. We’ll just be ignoring them. I suppose that is taking over- taming over the running of our own lives.

86398 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Farinances, 1, #351 of 1392 🔗

Really worth reflecting on Chaos by Government.

The government are irrelevant to me. They exist purely to take from me. The take tax, the take time, they take life, the take fun, the take future. And in return they give me? Well they give me no confidence in them. Apparently they keep me safe from enemy states, but I think the government cause an equal harm. They supply water and tax sewage. Really do they do much else?

The peacefulness and community of our lives is caused be the people not by the government. It never has been. Those at arms have always out numbered those who control.

86397 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to ambwozere, 1, #352 of 1392 🔗

Boris goes on holiday at the end of the week. Will Gove stage a coup. He has been rather quiet of late.

86401 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to alw, #353 of 1392 🔗

really is he any better?

86404 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to alw, 1, #354 of 1392 🔗

The coup has already happened and it wasn’t Gove.

86175 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #355 of 1392 🔗

From last month by HMG, don’t know if it’s been on here before or not:


It’s title is: Direct and Indirect Impacts of COVID-19 on Excess Deaths and Morbidity: Executive Summary
Department of Health and Social Care, Office for National Statistics, Government Actuary’s Department and Home Office
15 July 2020

86225 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #356 of 1392 🔗

There’s a new article on Hector Drummond site that cross analyses this report with Imperial’s recent cost/benefit analysis.

86300 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NickR, 2, #357 of 1392 🔗

One conclusion that cannot be ignored is that in all these findings that while we are happy to value a lost non-Covid-19 death at £30,000 per year/life lost we are putting a value on the life/years lost to Covid-19 at between 3 and 183 times greater than this.

Doesn’t the E in the PPE degree stand for economics??!!

86868 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #358 of 1392 🔗

This got me thinking, partly because I’d been talking to someone about the requirements of my own degree (history) in terms of what papers I had to take. Specifically, I spent the whole of my final year on political philosophy (not history), so I wondered…

According to ox.ac.uk:
“PPE is a highly flexible degree which allows you to shape your own path through it: you may choose to specialise in two branches at the end of the first year, or continue with all three. You can also explore a wide variety of disciplines under the overarching headings of Philosophy, Politics, and Economics – for example, you can specialise in Sociology or International Relations by choosing the relevant Politics options.”

In other words, as far as I can work out, as long as you spend one term of your first year doing an economics paper, which could be pretty basic historical economics, you probably never need to look at it again if you don’t want to.

If I could be bothered, I could look a bit further into it – for example, the tripos system being what it is, it’s possible that you only in fact need to read two papers in your first year (the third term being clear for your part I exams), in which case I can’t see any reason you would have to study any economics at all. This last para is speculation. I don’t even know whether PPE has a 1 year or 2 year part I

86321 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #359 of 1392 🔗

It’s an astonishing assumption that those who would die from Covid-19 would otherwise have between 5 and 10 years of life remaining on average.

Surely it’s not even that complex to work it out. Take into account the current condition and medical history of the patient and cross-reference with historical data.

But, as usual, just make an assumption that helps justify the course of action.

86211 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #360 of 1392 🔗

Does anybody know the legal definition of Treason in the UK? Just curious if it is specifically against the monarchy (the sovereign) or the sovereign power (the people).

Technically Petty Treason (if still valid) could be argued that the servant (government) has killed their master (the people) or at least some of them.

There’s also the argument that the government have colluded with outside powers to inflict harm on the people in what Boris himself declared as a war.

86218 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #362 of 1392 🔗

I had a look the other day on legislation.gov.uk

All the Treason legislation is on there all the way back to 1351.


In the 1351 Treason Act it states:

“Declaration what Offences shall be adjudged Treason.”

“if a Man do levy War against our Lord the King in his Realm, be adherent to the King’s Enemies in his Realm, giving to them Aid and Comfort in the Realm, or elsewhere”

Definition of adherent:  A supporter, as of a cause or individual

In the 1848 Treason Act as in that it states as an act of treason:

“to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament”

No wonder there are reports in the independent media he is looking at revising the legislation with regards to treasonous behaviour as the current situation is verging on meeting these criteria.

There are definitely adherents to persons in this country currently trying to overthrow our system of governance and Parliament is acting overawed and intimidated or they would not be so supine in challenging or questioning what is being forced onto the general population.

86244 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #363 of 1392 🔗

I did do some digging before asking the question and couldn’t work out if much of it specifically applies to the reigning monarch. Given that they are merely a figurehead representative of the people, the wording implies that treasonous acts could be enacted upon the people.

Was just looking for some clarity.

86248 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #364 of 1392 🔗

Reading the various laws it says along the lines of “the king, his heirs and successors” so covers every monarch and so on for ever without actually mentioning them by name or sex.

86575 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, #365 of 1392 🔗

Were certain spies put to death during wars under treason law?

86980 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #366 of 1392 🔗

Supposedly the playwright Christopher Marlowe was a spy.

86297 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #367 of 1392 🔗

…he is looking at revising the legislation with regards to treasonous behaviour…

Bit of a dead giveaway!

86425 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Awkward Git, #368 of 1392 🔗

“to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament”

That would cover one specific non politician straight away!

86769 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ewan Duffy, #369 of 1392 🔗

Yep my immediate thought was a certain billionaire with lots of fingers in every sticky pie.

We thinking about the same person?

86237 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #370 of 1392 🔗

Don’t place any confidence in obscure legal reasonings to get us out of this one – that kind of thing only works if you have an honest judiciary, or an honest and free media to shame them into pretending to be honest.

And remember, this is a country in which we all spent .half a century congratulating ourselves on convicting German leaders for “the crime of aggression” and pontificating to the rest of the world about how waging a war of aggression was the ultimate crime, until suddenly the test came and it turned out waging a war of aggression wasn’t even illegal in this country. Our establishment (under numerous both “Labour” and “Conservative” governments) “forgot” to implement that particular restriction on their freedom of action.

Remember the mass outrage in our establishment, the mainstream media demands from all those who still pontificate about the crime of aggression – for other countries – for emergency legislation to quickly correct this appalling oversight? No, me neither.

That’s the kind of situation in which obscure legal reasoning is effective: when it gets our elites out of a hole they’ve dug for themselves.

86262 ▶▶ annie, replying to ambwozere, 4, #372 of 1392 🔗

Fat lot of good the masks have done, then.

86294 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ambwozere, 3, #373 of 1392 🔗

What a farce!!

86296 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #374 of 1392 🔗

Totally, if its so bad why not impose lockdown again from tomorrow, makes no sense.

86345 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to ambwozere, 3, #375 of 1392 🔗

It’s nothing but a game to the politicians. They are playing fast and loose with our lives without giving us a thought. They really are the most despicable of classes.

86232 KBuchanan, replying to KBuchanan, 7, #376 of 1392 🔗

Re mask’s just received a catalogue from a shopping company I have used in the past. Not often as the Cornish Seasalt brand is mega expensive, I see now that the outdoorsy beach combing brand sells its own unique masks!!! FFS an outdoor clothing company!

86251 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #377 of 1392 🔗

I got one 2 days ago; won’t be using them again!

86295 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 1, #378 of 1392 🔗

Do write and tell them why.

86261 ▶▶ annie, replying to KBuchanan, 6, #379 of 1392 🔗

They’ve been touting these ‘handybands’ since the bollox began. Yuk yuk yuk.

I believe one of us sceptics wrote to them, asking them to include a warning that the horrid things affirded no protection against Covid.
Nor, of course, does any ‘mask’ now being touted.

86238 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 16, #380 of 1392 🔗

I’ve been thinking about this site and it is great place to challenge, discuss, let off steam and hopefully force some change. At the risk of sounding pretentious I think one of it’s roles is also to bear witness. I think the spin on this will continue for years and it will be interesting to see what angle is taken years down the line when educating our children. We already know that stories used in the MSM to stoke fear have long since disappeared and are never retracted when proven false. Similarly, data will be rejigged, overwritten, re-categorised and re-contextualised so much that we’ll lose track of the data that was used at the time to drive key decisions. We’ll probably even get to a point where we sometimes think “Was it that bad after all?”. We need this site to show what really happened because it’s surprising how quickly you can forget.

86254 ▶▶ FatBastardMcKenzie, replying to Achilles, 3, #381 of 1392 🔗

Truly, the stories and data will suffer the fate of the seven commandments of the “Animal Farm”.

Four legs good, two legs better!

86256 ▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, 4, #382 of 1392 🔗


86291 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #383 of 1392 🔗

And to resist!

86268 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Achilles, 1, #384 of 1392 🔗

Yes, that’s absolutely correct.

86327 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Achilles, #385 of 1392 🔗

The People’s History Museum should upload my contributions to their records for posterity.

86418 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Achilles, #386 of 1392 🔗

Hear hear. Is the site backed up daily to a non-cloud secure place ?

86520 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to JohnB, #387 of 1392 🔗

I’ve printed it out because my floppy disk ran out of space. I’ll fax it to you if you like.

86513 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Achilles, #388 of 1392 🔗

That’s a good point – I believe this site will prove to be an invaluable piece of history.

86545 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Achilles, 1, #389 of 1392 🔗

A little message to the virtual zoom school tours coming through here 200 years from now. Don’t believe the lies there was a time when people knew what free travel and a true natural human was. We were lucky because we enjoyed real pubs hundreds of years old. We saw and were those characters of Chaucer. We knew what it was like to pick up and go for adventures without needing government approval and permits.

You can choose your future – but you must fight for it. That is the unfortunate consequence of evil.

When you have freedom fighting to keep it is harder than fighting for it.

86247 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 15, #390 of 1392 🔗

BBC: “Trowels in lay-bys for ‘urgent toilet breaks'” “Trowels are to be left in 90 lay-bys in part of the Highlands to help tackle problems with outdoor toileting…Last month, Western Isles local authority Comhairle nan Eilean Siar urged tourists travelling the islands in campervans to plan ahead for toilet breaks due to facilities still being closed because of the coronavirus pandemic.”


We have become a third world country and no-one (well, apart from us) is batting an eyelid. And, obviously, NOT because of the “coronavirus pandemic”: (a) it’s because of the lockdown (b) it is not severe enough to be defined as a pandemic.

But I don’t suppose there’s any chance that we would succeed in attempts to point these things out to the BBC.

86255 ▶▶ annie, replying to Aremen, 8, #391 of 1392 🔗

Ugh ugh ugh.
Council should read that useful tome How to s..t in the woods.
Everybody else should avoid Highland lay-bys like the plague spots they obviously are.

86336 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 5, #392 of 1392 🔗

Just wait for an outbreak of enteritis and water pollution.

86832 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #393 of 1392 🔗

We’re regressing backwards to the Victorian era with cholera and hepatitis A waiting in the wings.

86263 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Aremen, 11, #394 of 1392 🔗

Or maybe they could just open the toilets and employ extra cleaners to clean them everytime anyone uses them. Honestly it’s not hard to find a solution.

86429 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Aremen, 3, #395 of 1392 🔗

This is nothing new. Stopped at a lay-by months ago, before covid, to fix the lights on my trailer and was treated to an absolute stench of urine + an enormous pile of faeces. Nearly added a large amount of puke to the wonderful concoction.

86517 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Steve, #396 of 1392 🔗

Yes. Been there, felt my skin crawl too. Only fire makes areas like that feel clean and a few years rain. It’s a disgusting failure of infrastucture. Long drop out houses cost little and do you know actually improve things.

Are these shitty trowels going to be on a chain?

86510 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Aremen, #397 of 1392 🔗

So. How do you tackle a shitty covid19 trowel?

The trowels of Scotland prove to the world covid19 is a hoax, or as near as damn it as makes no odds.

87301 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Aremen, #398 of 1392 🔗

So we’re not allowed to touch toilet cistern handles and door handles but trowel handles are fine!

86257 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 10, #399 of 1392 🔗

#BorisHasFailedTheUK is now trending on Twitter (just spotted this when checking Ethical Sceptic’s page), There are a lot of tweets with this tag and most of them, even those from obviously non-Conservative voters, are focusing their ire on the economic damage.

Maybe people really are starting to wake up now…

86266 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Drawde927, 3, #400 of 1392 🔗

Would be nicer if it were #JohnsonandStarmerhavefailedtheUK, but at least it’s a start.

It’s not the beginning of the end, but it is perhaps the end of the beginning. Did someone once say something like that? Anyway, first get the responsible leadership figure out, then worry about witch hunting the rest of the criminals responsible for what has been done.

86269 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Drawde927, 2, #401 of 1392 🔗

Apart from #kbf sceptics haven’t had much success in getting anything going with regards hashtags. But how about this one… #headsmustroll ?
Keeps it broadly critical so bedwetters can get involved too if they can muster up the courage

86289 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Drawde927, 2, #402 of 1392 🔗

They’re going to have to hurry up but at least the economic consequences are starting to overtake the covid articles in the MSM.

86447 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Drawde927, #403 of 1392 🔗

I’d prefer #TheentirepoliticalandprofessionalclasshavefailedtheUK, but ok, it’ll do

86264 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #404 of 1392 🔗

Keir Starmer is basically Gary Lineker minus the crisp thefts. I find his constant tweeting of anodyne platitudes a complete turn-off. I actually think as a target for sceptics, he’d be easier to dislodge than Boris.

86314 ▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #405 of 1392 🔗

Oh no!
The words Starmer and Lineker in the same sentence. Do stop!
The virtue is so vigorously signalled by this pair of smug millionaires that I feel physically slapped about. It hurts …!!!

I shall have to go for a swift cold G&T in the garden…

86316 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #406 of 1392 🔗

Easier to dislodge in terms of convincing him over to our side? Not sure – you’d imagine a lot of his support base and fan club are lockdown, mask and safety zealots.

86479 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Julian, #407 of 1392 🔗

Every crank and nut job takes a pop at HM govt and the PM. Hell, let’s be honest, there are a few amongst our ranks. A few thousand negative comments is water off a ducks back to BoJo et al. The oh so sensitive leader of the opposition however will kneel on command.

We need a rethink.

86416 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #408 of 1392 🔗

Not a chance! Starmer is the new Blair and he is totally signed up to whatever is behind this.

86274 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #410 of 1392 🔗

here’s who is behind it:

The Pandemic Action Network, WHO, Africa CDC, CDC and CDC Foundation, ECDC, Facebook, Google, Global Citizen and 40+ partner organizations announced today the launch of World Mask Week, August 7-14, in an effort to increase the use of face coverings in public across the globe.


https://pandemicactionnetwork.org/world-mask-week/ – same old names cropping up:


Fuck ’em.

86287 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #411 of 1392 🔗

Preferably with something the size of a caber.

86766 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, #412 of 1392 🔗

And no vaseline

86446 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #413 of 1392 🔗

There are so many people whose jobs this shit actually is.

I think that’s the takeaway from this. There’s a whole industry founded on, and now making squillions off the back of, global ’emergencies’. If it wasn’t for them this wouldn’t even BE a global ’emergency’. Nobody would even have noticed.

86285 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #414 of 1392 🔗

And we thought clapping was bad!

86276 Strange Days, replying to Strange Days, 10, #415 of 1392 🔗

This is excellent 🙂

Simon Dolan :
Those ‘face coverings’ which ‘protect others’ by stopping droplets coming out? If the other person is wearing a ‘face covering’, how come that doesn’t stop the droplet coming in? Are home made face coverings using some sort of one way weave technology?

Andrew “They protect against bacteria” Elliott:
I’ve been telling people to wear two masks, the second on back to front, if they’re scared.

That way, I don’t have to

Twitter: https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1293525637723041794

86572 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Strange Days, #416 of 1392 🔗

Genuinely made this joke weeks back on these pages if you care to look! Logical isn’t it!

86280 NickR, replying to NickR, 4, #417 of 1392 🔗

I was stood in a shady spot yesterday when a vast, masked couple waddled up & stopped by me. They proceeded to pull down their masks, pull out their fags & have a smoke. Fags finished, masks up & waddled off.

86284 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NickR, 2, #418 of 1392 🔗


86292 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to NickR, 3, #419 of 1392 🔗

Should have asked them to exhale with the masks on to illustrate just how effective they are (and to ‘protect’ you from 2nd hand smoke of course).

86293 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to NickR, 1, #420 of 1392 🔗

getting covids would SO get in their way of their smoking, way too risky to chance getting it.

86424 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to NickR, 2, #421 of 1392 🔗

A bloke walked our of Morrison’s yesterday, wearing a dust mask. Dust masks only protect the wearer – against dust! No doubt he felt very virtuous but he may have wondered why 2 unmuzzled old gimmers were giggling nearby.

86549 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to NickR, #422 of 1392 🔗

That just crystallises this whole situation, together with the sheep’s reaction (and obedience) to it. F me sideways.

86282 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #423 of 1392 🔗

If you compare this section of Guy’s excellent article:

The most misused word of this crisis is ‘safety’. You hear it everywhere constantly, the endless promises that you’ll be ‘safe’ because of all sorts of nonsense like masks, miles of tape, and magic distancing. Yet in reality the total unpredictability the Government is presiding over has made us feel less safe than ever before. We now face the prospect of an endless series of knee-jerk panicked responses to any perceived uptick in cases, meaning that no community, household or business in this country knows whether or not there’ll be a sudden resumption of house arrest like in Melbourne. Nothing will cripple a nation or society more effectively. It makes any sort of planning or investment impossible. This has all been intended to create a sense that the Government is in charge but is beginning to have the opposite effect. Where is the strategy, the grand plan, the future? We are being governed by people whose vision and strategy no longer extends beyond the end of next week.

My response as I read it was that it’s obviously part of a grand plan, strategised by the infamous Nudge Unit. De Piffle, as the self-evidenced lying buffoon, is the perfect person to deliver it because people geniunely believe it’s mere incompetence – poor Boris, he nearly died, he isn’t well ….. He’s an expert liar, so he gets away with it among his deaf and blind followers. PoppyCock on the other hand is a very incompetent liar, so is generally less trusted but he has the ruthlessness to shamelessly carry on barefaced.

So, to follow that with the chilling account of the so-called “Health Passport” confirmed my deepest cynicism.

Everything that has happened has been announced beforehand but we fail to hear it. They even told us that the Nudge Unit was leading the strategy. Notice that the first official public announcement from the JBC was that many covid outbreaks are caused by mass hysteria: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/25/local-coronavirus-outbreaks-could-mass-hysteriajoint-biosecurity/

Strangely, the UK MSM didn’t pounce on that and it hasn’t been mentioned since, that I’m aware of. Instead, the hysteria has been channelled into 2nd waveitis, more testing and local mockdowns, all maintaining the fear and uncertainty. People consequently feel very unsafe and that makes them malleable – Nudge Unit successfully in action?

I can’t possibly accept the fact that this worldwide chaos is due to incompetence and panic, rather than calculated choreography.

86315 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #424 of 1392 🔗

Not sure myself which it is, but either way the men at the top are culpable.

86710 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, #425 of 1392 🔗

I have to admit to feeling an immense sense of depression after reading the Health Passport article. Things just keep getting darker and more dire. I wish I knew how we can get out of this mess.

86286 annie, replying to annie, 1, #426 of 1392 🔗

Do read this.
Read it to the very end. That’s vital.


86371 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to annie, #427 of 1392 🔗

I don’t get it. A person gave another person at the end of their tether some money to help them. Most of us on here would do that, surely? And?

86375 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to annie, #428 of 1392 🔗

I don’t understand….

86387 ▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 1, #429 of 1392 🔗

One thing she has saved is the mask that is still in its package .”

LOL! Even down and out former prostitutes have some common sense…

86288 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 9, #430 of 1392 🔗

This was covered on today’s UKColumn, incredible. St John’s Ambulance advises that if you happen across a person who is unresponsive and not breathing, YOU SHOULD PUT A TOWEL OVER THEIR FACE!
Check this out it will give you brain cancer.


86309 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 10, #431 of 1392 🔗

Yep, that’s what we were told in 1st aid refresher training a few weeks ago as well.

Training school didn’t agree but had to teach it as it was orders from PHE amongst others.

Instructor asked “if you saw your mate at work collapsed on the floor and not breathing would you do normal CPR or follow these guidelines?”

Answer – after all the piss takes about kicking him to see if he was acting, riffling his pockets, leave him there may be H2S, call his wife to see if he was well insured and did she want to collect or not etc – was no, we would not follow these guidelines but we would do the old-fashioned CPR and take our chances with a mild flu like illness.

86330 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Two-Six, 1, #432 of 1392 🔗

Sounds like waterboarding without the water.

86440 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to wendyk, #433 of 1392 🔗

That’s wearing a mask in hot temperatures. Although there is water. Your sweat.

86302 kh1485, replying to kh1485, #434 of 1392 🔗


86307 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to kh1485, 1, #435 of 1392 🔗


86318 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Achilles, 12, #436 of 1392 🔗

Oh dear just tried to post a comment and it didn’t like it, so posted a dummy one with just random letters and it was accepted … sorry … not sure why the original didn’t work.

Anyway, just been asked by a load of masked-up pensioners why I wasn’t wearing a mask and told them that no government is going to dictate how much oxygen I take in. I was told “good for you” which begs the question, why the hell were they wearing the damn things on the hottest day of the year ….

86326 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to kh1485, 5, #437 of 1392 🔗

I hope when you said that, that they all took their masks off.

86343 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to ambwozere, 5, #438 of 1392 🔗

Er … no.

It’s the meek compliance that gets me. No critical thinking, no application of common sense just gormless unquestioning obedience.

86352 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to kh1485, 2, #439 of 1392 🔗

Oh dear, can’t help some folk 🤦‍♀️

86544 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, #440 of 1392 🔗

And that is the *huge* problem we face.

86341 ▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to kh1485, 3, #441 of 1392 🔗

“Good for you..”
is Oldie speak for,
“You smug little turd. Think you’re so clever don’t you? You’ll not make old bones at that rate. Now get out of my way….”

Those wrinklies know what’s what. They live on biscuits and milky tea and believe Piers Morgan is God.

86346 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Little Red Hen, #442 of 1392 🔗

You really shouldn’t do that, nearly spat out my tea reading that! Thanks for the laugh, god how I need that right now 🙂

86842 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, #443 of 1392 🔗

Unfortunately they are far gone. I work with people like that and I’ve just given up.

86542 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Achilles, #444 of 1392 🔗

Now, that’s funny. 🙂

86322 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 2, #445 of 1392 🔗

Not going mad (though, perhaps I am …), see comment below for explanation of weird post ….

86329 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 3, #446 of 1392 🔗

There’s an empty site near the top of my road; an eyesore for many years, but now it’s littered with discarded masks.

86360 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 4, #447 of 1392 🔗

I’m seeing loads here. Had one left in my shop (yuk), it went in the bin. Still, must remember, they’re wearing them to keep us safe – yeah, right.

Loads of the wretched things here today. I don’t know how people manage it, it makes me feel anxious just seeing someone wear one in this heat.

86308 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 7, #448 of 1392 🔗

Thought for today (or perhaps that should be “hope for today”).

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson comes to the conclusion he can best serve the nation by resigning. “I got it badly wrong” says a sorrowful premier. “I hope a forgiving nation will find it in their hearts to allow me to live out the rest of my days on Rockall, where I shan’t be able to lead people up the garden path ever again.”

Johnson’s resignation stuns the nation in to realising it is finally safe to come out from behind the sofa.

Could it ever happen?

86311 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #449 of 1392 🔗

He doesn’t strike me as the type.

86313 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #450 of 1392 🔗

Depends if Dom tells him to.

86320 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #451 of 1392 🔗

Prime Minister of Rockall resigns – accepts plan to eliminate avian flu by weighing down gulls’ wings with stones was “misguided”, leading as it did to mass starvation in the bird population.

86441 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to OKUK, #452 of 1392 🔗

Didn’t think Rockall had a Prime Minister…. Uninhabited rock in the middle of nowhere that can only be landed on from a helicopter. Whether it has the virus is irrelevant, no population to infet.
(yes, know you are joking)

86353 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #453 of 1392 🔗

Never. After all it is a ‘worldwide crisis’

86405 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Ned of the Hills, #454 of 1392 🔗

Is it unacceptably old school for me to suggest passing him a bottle of whiskey and a loaded pistol?

Mind you, he’d probably spill the drink and miss with the bullet…

86616 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mark, #455 of 1392 🔗

I’m sure it is in Dom’s contract that he (Dom) has the sole right to pass such items to Boris and that Boris must use them as directed.

86885 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ned of the Hills, #456 of 1392 🔗

Gruinard Island is uninhabited due to anthrax testing.

Couldn’t he go there instead?

86323 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 22, #457 of 1392 🔗

Travelling today on LNER, I was reading my book when it dawned on me that someone was trying to attract my attention. “Excuse me… excuse me… mask…”
I looked up to see a young policeman fully kitted out in mask, walkie talkie, hi-viz flak jacket, etc.
Policeman: “Excuse me Madam can I ask you to put on your mask.”
Hoppy (looks a bit dazed, this hasn’t happened before, the trains have been unstaffed up to now).
Policeman, again, “Excuse me madam, can I ask you to put on your mask.”
Hoppy (remembering the law): “I’ve got an exemption.”
Policeman: “I see, and do you have a card or anything like that?”
Hoppy (a bit apologetically I confess): “No.”
Policeman: “And can I ask why you’re wearing a mask round your neck.”
Well this is a bit complex. Obviously, legally, I don’t have to wear one, due to distress, which is compounded of hot stifling weather, shame for my government, and also a low-grade version of Winston Smith having to confess that 2+2=5. But on the other hand, I know some people who’ve been genuinely quite scared by the Government’s publicity, especially pensioners. So if I saw a trembling old lady coming to sit opposite me, I’d put a mask on just out of courtesy, it would probably be her first time out and she’d be having to pluck up enough courage as it is.
However all this is quite hard to articulate, and while I was still sitting there, hopefully with a friendly expression, trying to sort out all these thoughts in my head and edit them into a form which wouldn’t make it sound as if I was trying to start a debate with the policeman, he clearly grew impatient, because he spoke again.
Policeman: “You’ve got a mask round your neck.”
Hoppy (reasonably confident that this is not yet a crime): “Yeah.”
And I can now report to LS that this monosyllable is all it takes! Because after ruminating for a few more moments, the copper moved off down the train! leaving me, I’m annoyed to say, rather shaken by even this tiny confrontation and with an increased respect for genuine dissidents like Solzhenitsyn etcetera.

86328 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 7, #458 of 1392 🔗

Why should you need to prove you have an exemption anyway?!!

86335 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 9, #459 of 1392 🔗

Policeman: “You’ve got a mask round your neck.”
Hoppy (reasonably confident that this is not yet a crime): “Yeah.”
And I can now report to LS that this monosyllable is all it takes! Because after ruminating for a few more moments, the copper moved off down the train !”

Excellent! Love the image that brings to mind.

Well done.

leaving me, I’m annoyed to say, rather shaken by even this tiny confrontation and with an increased respect for genuine dissidents like Solzhenitsyn etcetera .”

We Brits (I make an assumption there, obviously, and I mean it culturally in this case) have a self-image of being resistant to authority, but in reality we so rarely have to exercise it that it’s pretty atrophied. I think the government is in the process of retraining many of us.

86338 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 5, #460 of 1392 🔗

Good job you weren’t in Melbourne, though….

86388 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 5, #461 of 1392 🔗

My thoughts exactly! Why do we not see the sort of thing the gestapo stasi police get up to over there on the BBC?

86403 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to IanE, 1, #462 of 1392 🔗

The girls involved didn’t die, perhaps because they weren’t overweight drug abusing former armed robbers. If one of them had, though, would we see “mostly peaceful” riots all around the world in response?

86497 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, #463 of 1392 🔗

i am sure you have forgotten one other important thing…. just cant put my finger on it at the moment

86364 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 9, #464 of 1392 🔗

Just don’t wear one. Don’t even own one.

86436 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 1, #465 of 1392 🔗

So proud of our Police,BTP I suppose Hoppy ?,on the frontline fighting the real criminals,the thought ones that is.
It makes me bloody sick,god forbid they might actually do some proper crime prevention on the railways.
Also,in my experience of LNER now,you would be quite lucky to find more than a couple of other passengers in your carriage nowadays.
No BTP,go back to hanging around railway offices drinking tea like usual,just leave us all alone.

86614 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Paul, #466 of 1392 🔗

Ireland doesn’t have a transport police (although are growing calls for one). Whenever I hear someone calling for one, I cite the BTP and their behaviour as an example of why Ireland should not have a transport police.

86492 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #467 of 1392 🔗

It better times when wars were wars and tunnocks tea cakes were tunnocks tea cakes they would dangle you by parachute into occupied Europe to bluff, gile and luck your way to victory! Well done. Regulation hip flask required for future travel!

86324 wendyk, #468 of 1392 🔗


Not strictly relevant but I like this column

86325 jim j, replying to jim j, #469 of 1392 🔗

Just for fun – see if you can find anyone in education anywhere who can explain to you what happens with England A Level release tomorrow.
Ahh, the good times roll on.
As a matter of interest, does anyone remember the last definitive decision, challenged and defended, made in the U.K.???

86332 ▶▶ Judith Day, replying to jim j, #470 of 1392 🔗

This is what we were told, but now it has apparently all changed, so —there is no-one who knows!

‘Much of what will happen on those days is the same as every year, but a great many things are different too and you and your parents or carers may have questions about how grades have been determined.
In simple terms, your grades will reflect the professional judgement of your teachers, with potentially some adjustments made by exam boards to ensure there is a level playing field across all schools and colleges.
This is a novel way of awarding grades, but it has been carefully thought through with lots of safeguards baked in.
For example, it would have been understandable if some teachers had given the benefit of the doubt to some of their students in the circumstances, but this would not have been fair to other students.
So school and college heads had to review and sign-off the grades provided by subject teachers before they were submitted to exam boards. And then the exam boards used data about how students in the school had performed in previous tests, and how the school had generally performed in GCSEs and A-levels in the past to decide whether the grades submitted looked too generous or too harsh.
This means the grades awarded this summer are the fairest possible in the circumstances.’

86454 ▶▶▶ jim j, replying to Judith Day, 1, #471 of 1392 🔗

Yes Judith, but at least in Scotland we know the outcome – opportunistic schools cheated to try unfairly improve their students grades because they knew the process, and put in results 15% better than they should have, then gave their kids these unrealistic expectations. Those schools created this disaster but want the government to fix it. Bottom line – complete discrediting of all 2020 results.

86487 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to jim j, -1, #472 of 1392 🔗

I agree. Any feeling about how the pupils feel today? The spotlight has gone from them now. It would be good to sense how pupils are feeling as a general consensus.

92946 ▶▶▶▶▶ jim j, replying to Basics, #473 of 1392 🔗

The students made 1/2 a case and yelled their heads off, got media coverage, and won… can we do the same with lockdown/masks??

92945 ▶▶ jim j, replying to jim j, #474 of 1392 🔗

Everything is proceeding just as I have foreseen.
I mean, why is the only issue this govt is not flip flopping on clearly their most incorrect – lockdown measures and face masks?? The A Levels thing is an embarrassing fiasco, humiliating to behold! I’m not even British and it’s embarrassing me

86334 PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 2, #475 of 1392 🔗

Petition to End lockdown to prevent further economic damage :
UK economy has shrunk by 22% since March according to ONS. Can we get this petition moving, its growth seems very slow:

86383 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to PowerCorrupts, #476 of 1392 🔗

Just signed it.

86396 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to PowerCorrupts, 3, #477 of 1392 🔗

I’ve signed it but to be fair the damage is already done, I don’t know how much more damage they can actually do, it’s a complete train crash. Why the heck no one says anything I have no idea. Complete incompetence, they knew about it in Jan/Feb, could have got the NHS ready, even Nightingale hospitals in those months, no need to shutdown at all. The worst government the UK has ever known. A shameful disgrace.

86435 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Moomin, 2, #478 of 1392 🔗

Losing track of all these petitions. Another one where I tried to sign but it came back with ‘duplicate signature’

86539 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, #479 of 1392 🔗

Plus worst opposition and worst assorted others. No difference between any of ’em. Shite.

86337 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #480 of 1392 🔗

Just seen a young woman carrying her mask fastened to her elbow. Ingenious…but
of course elbows must pick ip a nice range of pathogens from arm rests, table tops, cramped toilet cubicles and the like. She’d be safer with no masks.

86427 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to OKUK, 1, #481 of 1392 🔗

Saw someone driving with their mask hanging from the rear view mirror, a lucky talisman or maybe drying in the sun.

86534 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to OKUK, 1, #482 of 1392 🔗

If she was in a ‘relevant place’ and didn’t have a ‘reasonable excuse’, she was breaking the law. I’ll get my coat…

86349 RickH, replying to RickH, 13, #483 of 1392 🔗

Guy de la Bédoyère’s latest essay is indeed a good one.
As to the tension between ‘conspiracy’ and ‘cock-up’ : I don’t think it’s a choice.

Get rid of the suspect term ‘conspiracy’ and substitute ‘network of interests’, and the concept becomes more mundane and comprehensible.

It seems pretty clear to me that, given the linguistic amendment, both mechanisms operate in lockstep to produce the anti-social mess that surrounds us.

Money from vaccines and big data/technology works seamlessly with politicians who don’t know whether it’s shit, shave or breakfast time when it comes to assessing real evidence.

86350 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 8, #484 of 1392 🔗

Get rid of the suspect term ‘conspiracy’ and substitute ‘network of interests’”

Very well put

86363 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to RickH, 4, #485 of 1392 🔗

We get the politicians we deserve, everywhere and always, and never more so than now.

This entire saga has exposed the woeful state of human consciousness, particularly in the “developed” nations, and is reflecting our collective inadequacies back at us. Not very pretty I’m afraid.

Forget all our scientific and technological advances, if we continue along the current trajectory it will be one of the lowest ebbs in human civilisation in the last 6,000 years.

86379 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard O, 2, #486 of 1392 🔗

Yes, the wilful throwing away of progress, freedom, happiness and prosperity for no good reason

86381 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Richard O, #487 of 1392 🔗

I would just amend that to “We get the politicians the majority deserve”.

86392 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to IanE, #488 of 1392 🔗

Sorry, can I just pick you up on ‘the majority’ – with the first by the post system routinely, because of the plethora of parties, in any constituency more people vote against the winner than for him/her. This is why, as has been posted elsewhere on this forum, we do not have a democracy, we have an elected dictatorship.

86472 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Richard O, #489 of 1392 🔗

Idiocracy is looking more and more like a documentary every day.

86355 JulieR, replying to JulieR, 10, #490 of 1392 🔗

I am having a discussion on Mumsnet education section about new year university arrangements. My daughter will have up to 2 hours of face to face tuition a week although her course is a science subject with a language.
I am not happy about it and asked about other universities.
A few people who work for universities replied saying they are scared to come to work and she is lucky to have 2 hours as most of them want to keep working online. Also they said that if universities open for more hours the second wave will come and kill them.
I said that average Covid death age is about 80 and fatalities numbers have been exaggerated. Nobody believes me.
Could someone post links to these 2 facts, please. I want them to read that.

86369 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JulieR, #491 of 1392 🔗

Will this do?

Revealed: Average age of Covid-19 victims is OLDER than life expectancy in Scotland as stark figures show ‘it is predominantly a disease that strikes the elderly’
For the UK as a whole, the median age of coronavirus victims is the same as in Scotland. But general life expectancy is slightly higher on average in the other home nations — 82-and-a-half for men and 85 for women .  “

86370 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JulieR, #492 of 1392 🔗

Just go on the ONS website and look at the updates or inproportion2 which has lots of nice easy to understand graphs.



These 2 sites are probably the best for finding graphs and info to give to the hard of thinking.

Swiss propaganda and others will be just a good but a lot more technical.

Or just spend a hour trolling through links on previous day’s pages, lots on them.

86376 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JulieR, 1, #493 of 1392 🔗

And for the other one:

Official UK daily coronavirus death toll could be SCRAPPED after row over PHE ‘exaggerating’ the tally by blaming it for all deaths from people who have caught it
(Awkward Git is obviously right if you are looking for considered research on the topic, but I’m working on the assumption you just want some recent mainstream media backup. If they are lefties they might get snobby about it being the Daily Mail, but just point them to the sources being reported, or tell them they can probably find the same stories in other papers).

86390 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to JulieR, 3, #494 of 1392 🔗

Gosh, one wonders what the point is of sending someone to a university with such scaredy cats teaching them!

86412 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Moomin, 6, #495 of 1392 🔗

Agree, I’d recommend doing an apprenticeship and go for the degree online while earning money and getting experience.

Worked for 2 of mine and they are doing better than every one of their mates who went to uni.

86557 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Moomin, 1, #496 of 1392 🔗

I agree. My younger daughter has decided not to go to university.

87459 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Moomin, #497 of 1392 🔗

My thoughts exactly.

86400 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JulieR, 3, #498 of 1392 🔗

I am afraid you are asking advice from a predominantly metropolitan ‘progressive’, largely south-east based clientele. They are likely to be lockdown zealots, irrespective of their professional status. The lecturers are also likely to be back on strike over pensions before long, so they have given up all pretense of getting back to normal. My son is going into year 2 of a high profile course at a leading university and has just been told, despite assurances before he signed up for an expensive flat share, there will be no tutorials, seminars or lectures aside from those online, before Christmas. They had already cancelled all formal examinations throughout the second year.

My guess is that many lecturers are soon to be sacked. They have all loaded their lecture slides and notes to online portals, and as the census day (deadline for when you have to be in post) for REF 2021 has now passed, there is no monetary value in any lecturer’s research that has not already been captured by the employer institution. They need to prepare for mass redundancies.

86562 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #499 of 1392 🔗

My daughter is also in one of the best universities in the country.
I hope many foreign students don’t come and there will be redundancies.
I also hope some universities will close. We have too many.
I told my daughter that I am not paying for an expensive flat share and she can commute. She didn’t like it though.

86605 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JulieR, 1, #500 of 1392 🔗

Agree completely, but as we will find out tomorrow, and as per Scotland, there must be prizes for all to keep the Vice Chancellor and the admin blob around him/her in the style they are accustomed to.

Unfortunately, we are just too far for him to commute, but you are right to tell her to commute if it is at all possible.

The students have been treated shockingly badly throughout this. At the very least the student loan interest rate could have been reduced to Bank rate.

87011 ▶▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #501 of 1392 🔗

My daughter can commute easily.

Last year there was a petition from students who wanted a refund because of strikes and lockdown. I listened to the discussion of it in parliament. The students put their points across brilliantly but university staff just kept saying “We work really hard and provide good education online”.
They may be working hard but the quality of online education is still poor.

86428 ▶▶ Aremen, replying to JulieR, 5, #502 of 1392 🔗

University staff who don’t know how to examine the evidence! God help us. And God help your daughter. Does she really want to be “taught” by such people? Might I suggest your daughter seriously considers abandoning university and gets herself a training in one of the trades, where she will get herself a job for life, will avoid “woke” obsessives, will get a grounding in real life, will avoid a massive debt, and will discover, from my experience, that she is surrounded by colleagues who have realised that this covid panic is a crock of shit and are trying to lead normal lives.

86890 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Aremen, 1, #503 of 1392 🔗

Unfortunately standards are getting lower and lower. I think there needs to be a culling of universities and lecturers – too many of them.

And young people should be encouraged to get a trade or go into apprenticeships – earn while you learn. If they want to go to uni, then its something they can do later when they’re older, wiser and are going for the love of learning and not simply for the sake of it.

87012 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Bart Simpson, #504 of 1392 🔗

I completely agree. That’s what I am telling my other daughter who is going into Y13. She will not be applying to university.

87562 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to JulieR, #505 of 1392 🔗

Agreed the days of mass university education and massive student debt are surely coming to an end after the disgraceful way that university students (even at top unis) have been treated.

86465 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to JulieR, 1, #506 of 1392 🔗


ONS Registered Deaths in England and Wales – Week ending 27th July
August 4, 2020

There were 217 deaths registered with COVID, but only 167 actually occurred in week 30 (an average of 24 a day).

These 167 registered deaths in week 30 equate to one registered death for every 353,987 people in England and Wales – roughly 3 deaths per million population.

In over 85s, those most at risk, COVID deaths continue to fall – 71 people died in week 30 – approximately 49 deaths per million in over 85s). This is a substantial reduction (98% fewer) than the peak in registered deaths in week 16 when 3,435 deaths occurred in over 85s occurred (approx 2,400 per million).

Of note, some deaths will not be related to active viral infection, and COVID will not be the immediate cause for all of them. Individuals could have tested positive some time ago and died from complications or from another cause and will, therefore, still have COVID on their death certificate as an underlying cause

There were no deaths in children under 14 for week 30. The last death was in week 23 (week ending 5th June) for this age group. In children aged 1 to 14 there have been five COVID deaths in the total outbreak this year – a very low risk – approximately one registered death for every 2 million children aged 1-14 (population estimate for this age band 10,004,735).

Table. Death Occurences in the week ending 27th July (week 30) and the population required for one death to occur

Age bands number of deaths 1 death per population
Under 1 year 0 none
Age 01-14 0 none
Age 15-44 3 7,482,638
Age 45-64 10 1,516,212
Age 65-74 28 210,962
Age 75-84 55 63,217
Age 85+ 71 20,386
Total 167. 353,987

The 167 registered deaths that occurred in week 30 do not match the Public Health England data, which reported 442 deaths in England alone for the week to the 24th of July. Given the inaccuracies in the PHE data set, it should be discontinued.

The page also has graphs, and the site has a lot more evidence-based data.

86480 ▶▶ NickR, replying to JulieR, #507 of 1392 🔗

This chart has some great data, it’s from Cambridge university, also look at the Cambridge centre for evidence based medicine, there’s so much. Oddly, what’s hard to find is hard data backing up the status quo argument.

86484 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to JulieR, 1, #508 of 1392 🔗

For what it’s worth, at my place the union branch argued hard for a full return to normal on-campus teaching. There is sceptical opinion among academic staff.

86834 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to JulieR, #509 of 1392 🔗

he Public Health England publish a report every Thursday evening, with lots of graphs which are not interesting, but since it began, very clearly states that most “infections” are in Care homes and that most people with a positive test are over 80. Very easy to find on the PHE website.

86359 Biker, #510 of 1392 🔗

Paul Krugman is total joke i can’t believe you’d quote him

86373 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 9, #511 of 1392 🔗

The panicky decision to call the lockdown and, it would appear, his lack of awareness about the impact on the economy suggests that he is not up to the job. To initiate project fear when he must have been told that a vaccine was a long way off and then to try and alleviate the fear with masks shows poor judgement.

86442 ▶▶ Will, replying to Andrew, #512 of 1392 🔗

There isn’t going to be a vaccine that actually achieves what they want it to achieve because, even if it actually works not enough people will take it for it to work.

86378 Antonedes, replying to Antonedes, 21, #513 of 1392 🔗

With it being A Level results tomorrow perhaps the Cabinet should be awarded their grades and awards based on their performance so far:

Rishi Sunack – The Acapulco Award for Economic Cliff Diving
Matt Hancock – The Herod Prize for helping to solve the accommodation crisis in care homes
Priti Patel – The Captain Webb Prize for her support for channel crossers
Gavin Williamson – The Frank Spencer Prize for effortless incompetence
Boris Johnson – The White Feather Trophy for throwing in the Swedish Towel

International Team Prize for bungling incompetence.

86385 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Antonedes, #514 of 1392 🔗


86891 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Antonedes, #515 of 1392 🔗

Don’t forget:

Neil Ferguson – The Book of Revelation Award for his apocalyptic computer modelling that would put St John to shame.

86382 Edna, 1, #516 of 1392 🔗

Sorry if this has been posted before, but it is an excellent video and explains the limitations of the PCR test. In German with English subtitles. Howard Steen’s reply to a post by Carl Henegan

86393 Bruno, replying to Bruno, 5, #517 of 1392 🔗

Oh dear, the top heavy and suspiciously intrusive UK test n trace system is getting into its stride, full of the usual management speak blether:
(According to a press report today, operatives have so far failed to contact more than 10 people each per week. Yet the Serco contract, for first contact low level tracing only, cost £108M, is up for renewal on 23 August, could extend for another period, est cost £410M. )
I know nothing about organising a proportionate ( cost to threat) system in today’s world. But the Edinburgh GP 5 year study, 2005-11, to test flu incidence and asymptomatic rates etc seemed about right. Where’s the project management, what are the expected benefits to be realised, KPIs for this juggernaut?
AG, what’s the quickest way of winkling the costings out of government which support of the figures released to the press?
How can we stop it? Or, if it’s so ultra necessary, have an effective smaller sampling scheme via GP surgeries instead?

86410 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bruno, 2, #518 of 1392 🔗

Serco CEO is Rupert Soames, brother of Nicholas Soames, and grandson of Winston Churchill – enough said!

86431 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #519 of 1392 🔗

Rupert not direct descendant of Churchill?

86561 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bruno, 1, #520 of 1392 🔗

You can look on the Government’s various contracts websites, there are a few and different departments run individual ones and there’s a central one as well.

These tells you the contract cost – either to bid or awarded.

I’ve deleted the links I had from a while back – I got one from a friend about PPE contracts for the Shrewsbury and Telford hospitals.

Apparently at the height of the pandemic in April they issued a contract for masks that worked out at 23 masks per hospital per day for the contract duration but the mask they specified was not available from their preferred contractor – ha ha ah – and searching the internet for it t tand been done away with.

We both thought this was done deliberately so they could turn round and say “look no PPE available, fucking central government again” when each health authority is responsible for it’s own PPE, not whitehall.

I know the DHSC has a contract’s site as its as on here about the vaccine doses being bought, management contracts for that contract and so on.

This is a central NHS contracts site as an example:


86609 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bruno, 1, #521 of 1392 🔗

Try on here:


Just found it again.

86870 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Awkward Git, #522 of 1392 🔗


86808 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #523 of 1392 🔗

The flu survey was in theory a different thing. T&T isn’t supposed to involve sampling or be a survey, it’s supposed to find everyone infected and their contacts, or at least about half them, depending on whatever the fashionable mythology is.

That’s why they base everything on absolute numbers of cases rather than positive ratios. According to the story we’re supposed to believe, those basically are all the infections because they’re supposed to be tracking them all.

Actually with their positive rate 10x higher than the ONS, if you treat it as a random sample, they’re finding about 600 out of 30,000 new infections per day 🙂 I think the ONS figure of 3000 new infections per day is reasonable, the T&T sampling is fairly random, and their test specificity is about 99.5%. It is in fact a survey, but the ONS one, which we already have (and which probably cost much less as well), is much better.

On these assumptions they’re probably only finding about 1% of the actual infections (and half their contacts). But I really want to know how many of the positives they’re finding are asymptomatic to get a better estimate of the specificity (if it’s much higher than the ONS 60% it implies their test is less specific). The ratio of symptomatic negatives would also be very informative about selection bias in the testing, because that’s the alternative explanation for why they’re finding a higher positive rate.

Iceland managed to quarantine about half of contacts and kept things at 10 dead out of 300k population without a lockdown ( https://www.covid.is/data ). That’s the proof that it is possible. But they were doing it during the actual epidemic where it has much more impact and is less skewed by the false positive rate.

86889 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #524 of 1392 🔗

Many thanks! I can see it will be interesting to know those things. wondering if it’s worth £400M to find out, in present circs, for just one of a number of respiratory viruses in circulation? Or might it be extended to others?
I don’t see that people will be honest about their contacts, either, like they are with AIDs as it was a killer; so you have to have the tracking by app, and that is also a bridge too far for me, hate the idea that we are so tracked already!

86930 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #525 of 1392 🔗

The ONS Covid-19 Infection Survey is much better quality data. I think they might call that “Pillar 5” or something. I doubt that it costs very much either.

To do it properly it has to be random (which ONS is) and it makes a lot of sense to ask about symptoms and report on that as well. Then you don’t need all that big a sample. 25,000 is OK.

The ONS are doing a great job. I think it would be really interesting to test for the other viruses as well using the same samples. Would not add much cost and we could learn a lot from it.

ONS do report that of those with Covid symptoms only 10% are actually positive. Encouraging sign that we have a high level of herd immunity to Covid. But would be good to know what the other viruses going around are.

The T&T stuff looks much more characteristic of knee-jerk government incompetence and poor value for money.

86990 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #526 of 1392 🔗

Yes, AIDs, deadly, around since 1986ish, absolutely why not try to eradicate that first, attacks the young by definition.
The poor VFM of T&T looks attackable. And the vagueness round the role and objectives of the Joint Biosecurity Centre raises my hackles. I’m so reassured by the idea that this whole edifice will be encouraging ‘left field thinking’, ‘innovation sprints’ and other gobbledegook.

86936 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #527 of 1392 🔗

Speaking of AIDS it is an infinitely better candidate for eradication through contact tracing. You’re much more likely to remember the contacts since you have to share rather more with them than a bus ride, and the virus is much more deadly. And yet we never have. And idiots like Sturgeon talk about “Zero Covid”.

86394 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #528 of 1392 🔗

An excellent tweet from Carl Heneghan on PCR testing. https://twitter.com/carlheneghan/status/1293533126229139468
It is so reassuring to have a high level technical professional on the sceptics side.

86438 ▶▶ Will, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #529 of 1392 🔗

I am just starting to develop a bit of optimism that the Germans might just come to mankind’s rescue and call a halt to all this madness.

86474 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #530 of 1392 🔗

This is a “must watch” for those wanting to get up to speed on the basics of PCR testing, and why it is so flawed as a diagnostic tool, leading to these meaningless figure, which in turn are used to justify nonsense measures.

In fact, this whole medicine-based shambles is almost a simulacrum of the misuse of PCR – a reckless chain of supposition.

86395 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 12, #531 of 1392 🔗

I was meant to be taking some time out from everything and taking a holiday, but after the awful experience arriving I feel I need to come back and just let it out before putting it all to the back of my mind. Travelling from UK to Portugal, expected worse in the airport, wearing a mask basically under my nose, falling down every so often, made friends with a few behind doing the same. Sadly a majority going along with it but on the plus side distancing was pretty much non existent and security and the rest of the time was very efficient and not bad. But then we get to the plane. Immediately hostile EasyJet attendant barking at me to put my mask up properly. They then had an argument with some.one without a mask exempt letter, who eventually gave in but hopefully will be going straight to complaints and possibly court. Very unpleasant 2 hours with it on, much drinking and eating to deal with it. In the airport the other side no staff made anything of a mask half off. Police in visors and nothing else, something told me they really couldn’t care less. And then the second worst part was supermarket shopping. All the signs like in the UK, masks compulsory, stand 2 metres, shop only as long as necessary, don’t touch your face sanitsise yada yada. 99.99% compliance, and proper compliance too, everyone wearing masks correctly, none like in Britain just going along with it for the ease. It seems they genuinely all believe it protects them, as such no leaping out of the way, people very happy to invade personal space, even elderly. This was a slight improvement, as was no security to queue up outside, however obviously the preference is no masks and no distancing. Had to get out of the shop quickly after I popped the mask under my nose for all of 30 seconds and a woman came and scolded me and told me to put it on properly. Obviously the Portuguese government has succeeded in turning the country into its own self governing state of semi bedwetters who think that a mask makes them invincible. Anyway, off to enjoy the sun now and hopefully forget about the troubles the world is in. With any luck won’t have to go out for a few days, except maybe venture to the beach in the hope that people aren’t masked up there, if so…..

86408 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Youth_Unheard, 4, #532 of 1392 🔗

It’s a very religious country. The more religious, the more terrified of dying and the more likely they are to do anything that will delay them going to hell.

86518 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to TheBluePill, #533 of 1392 🔗

Which seems odd given the Catholics and other Christians in my family are totally opposed to everything, fully signed up lockdown sceptics!

86563 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Youth_Unheard, #534 of 1392 🔗

Good for them. It was a generalisation and there are obviously going to be a lot of exceptions. Maybe your family happen to think they are going to heaven.

86409 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Youth_Unheard, 9, #535 of 1392 🔗

They comply as they are scared of their federal (central) police and the violence the police resort to very quickly with full backing of those in power and the corrupt courts. Think Spain Italy, Australia, most of South America.

It wasn’t that long ago Franco and Mussolini were in power and it is still remembered.

Although it is diminishing rapidly England’s Police are still pretty much civilians with extra powers and we are not that scared of them, apprehensive maybe but not scared, and our justice system is reasonably OK all things considered compared to most and better at giving you a fair trail and shake at the stick than most round the world for all it’s faults.

86402 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #536 of 1392 🔗

I’m fed up with this.

More fear porn from the BBC on the LIES about testing/cases/surges.

How do they get away with this?

They are presenting the last dregs of deaths from the illness as the start of a new wave.

86423 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #537 of 1392 🔗

Picture yourself years from now sifting CVs of applicants. BBC journalist. It thins the pile of CVs automatically. Helpful, fast, no effort. Bin.

86430 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #538 of 1392 🔗

Government propaganda stenographers. Just doing their job.

86406 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 14, #539 of 1392 🔗

The latest mask fabric is virus sized.
All you have to do is drape a piece of knicker elastic over each ear, then tell bedwetters the mesh is very fine to catch viruses and you have to be very intelligent to see it.
( Sort of like the emperors new clothes)

86419 ▶▶ anon, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #540 of 1392 🔗

I like this.

I’m going to try something similar

approaches shop unmuzzled…

…basket of muzzles thrusts into view

“would you like a mask sir?”

“no thanks!”

points finger to mouth / nose…

“this one’s just fine! only just put it on!”

86450 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Nessimmersion, #541 of 1392 🔗

A string vest?

87151 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to NickR, #542 of 1392 🔗

A g-string.

86486 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to arfurmo, #544 of 1392 🔗

I’m sure he’s cia.

86415 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 4, #545 of 1392 🔗

One thing I’m wondering. Why is Putin going along with this?

You can be pretty sure that their new vaccine is a placebo. Maybe our government had that hissy fit a few weeks back because Russians were hacking virus research to find out if all the other vaccines were a fraud too.

86417 ▶▶ Julian, replying to TheBluePill, 4, #546 of 1392 🔗

Perhaps he thought it was easier than trying to convince his people that they should move on with life

86434 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to TheBluePill, #547 of 1392 🔗

To keep on good terms with China is my guess.

86437 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to TheBluePill, #548 of 1392 🔗


86449 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to TheBluePill, 10, #549 of 1392 🔗

I think we’re at the stage where a large section of the population would believe you if you said the vaccine could be delivered by app:-

“Hi I’m vaxy,do you want to be safe? Hold the short end of the phone where the microphone is to your wrist and click the “Vaccinate me now!” button….[phone vibrates]…Congratulations you have been vaccinated and can now remove your mask! Would you like to set a reminder for your 6 month booster?”

86462 ▶▶ Mark, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #550 of 1392 🔗

I’ve wondered that also, because early on I hoped he would go the way of Bolsonaro and Lukashenko, but instead he and Russia went full coronaphobia. A real shame.

One possibility is that he simply fell for the fear, like so many other senior politicians and power figures around the world. He’s a human being, and just another political leader (albeit an unusually competent one), not an evil genius.

86535 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to TheBluePill, 4, #551 of 1392 🔗

Putin is going along with it but Russian people are not.
They are not having this vaccine. Although masks are mandated in some big cities on public transport and in big shops not many people actually wear them.
Nobody is going to tolerate any lockdown and everything is now opened. Even theatres and cinemas.
And the media in Russia are not talking about a second wave.

86421 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #552 of 1392 🔗

The land where Covid Zero is the doctrine currently infecting the terminal decline of the economy has a recovery plan. Unemployment at a rising 4.5%, higher than the rest of the UK, Scotlands recovery plan is for fairer jobs and well-being, may be a little green too.

Definition of what ‘well-being’ is famously unknown (and therefore shiftable by rhetoric of the day).

Fairer jobs. Cuckoo, and what?

£50million pounds is being spent to engender a green recovery (equally shiftable).

And so £10 per head of population spent on recovering the job market. Thank god for the government recovery plan.

86481 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #553 of 1392 🔗

We are having a… trumpets and fanfare … “well-being economy”.

Get used to it, it has been chosen for us.

86554 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 2, #554 of 1392 🔗

Huh well being…that’s a bit rich from these psychopaths that have done more to turn us into a nation of psychotic hypochondriac and lockdown lunatics that surpasses any expectations they must have had of their capabilities back in March…..They have done more to DESTROY people’s mental health en-mass that anything short warfare.

86426 Sarigan, 4, #555 of 1392 🔗

4000 travel SME businesses in severe financial distress. 1% of 520,000 SMEs in distress across all sectors!


86448 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #556 of 1392 🔗

Don’t Live Your Life in a Bubble

A letter to the Younger Generations:


86467 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Sarigan, 5, #557 of 1392 🔗

Fantastic rallying cry for my generation. I really want to do something to help end this madness but I feel like I have no platform. Right now, small individual acts – going maskless, leading life as normal, socialising with people, weighing up individual risk, and seeding sceptical views in those who may be wavering – seems like the best way to effect change.

86475 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Poppy, 2, #558 of 1392 🔗

If you are confident to do so, I would share that as much as possible. It does not come across as ‘Conspiracy Theory’ and is a well written piece,

86498 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Poppy, 1, #559 of 1392 🔗

That’s already a lot. More than what most are doing.
Your actions will spread.

86505 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Sarigan, #560 of 1392 🔗

The unfortunate thing is: for most part, the generation to which that letter is addressed can only process information 140–280 characters at a time, there are exceptions, but rear.

86508 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to IMoz, #561 of 1392 🔗

Nail. Head. Impact.

86522 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to IMoz, #562 of 1392 🔗

got a reply before I could edit, so might be rear, but definitely rare 😉

86527 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Sarigan, 1, #563 of 1392 🔗

Just read this article, probably the most articulate summing-up of the whole political/social mess as well as the facts about the virus, that I’ve read so far. Definitely worth sharing to as many people as possible.

I really hope that if anything good comes of all this it will be that people are more aware and less tolerant of political and media corruption and incompetence. It’s something that up to now everyone’s just tolerated as an inescapable feature of modern society, unless it personally affects their life. Now it affects everyone!

AIER have had some very good articles lately. In particular this one
does a very good job of refuting the current official US narrative on lockdowns and rising cases, contrasting it to the actual facts and statistics.

86555 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sarigan, #564 of 1392 🔗

What a great article and one for everyone whatever age you are.

86674 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sarigan, #565 of 1392 🔗

Another excellent piece from AIER, one of my favourite sources lately. Strangely I thought I was fairly risk-averse but compared to the flock of doomers all whimpering behind their sofas over a demographic-relative cold, I now may as well be a crazy aldrenaline junkie!

86451 Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 3, #566 of 1392 🔗
86469 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 6, #567 of 1392 🔗

Yes, probably the strongest statement yet by any MP. Let’s hope there are a few others who share his views who will now be encouraged to join him.

86470 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 2, #568 of 1392 🔗

I hope that this gives some of the other MPs who have been keeping quiet the courage to stand up, surely they are not all spineless jellyfish

86496 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 8, #569 of 1392 🔗

I suppose this makes.him the least moronic MP.

Gee, who would have thought that locking people in their homes and shutting down the economy would have had a terrible economic impact. We needed to actually go through with the experiment for these idiots to realise it was going to cause problems?

Good for him that he’s realised they’ve screwed up. Now he can resign. The whole lot of them need to resign and call an election so we can get a new lot in. This current lot is completely compromised.

86715 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #570 of 1392 🔗

I’m so chuffed one of them has spoken, I had to congratulate him:


86460 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 11, #571 of 1392 🔗

Common sense for youngsters, top tip No 71:

‘……the big important question is: what are you actually trying to do and what are you doing to achieve it?

If the answer is ‘Protect Society’ and the method is ‘Destroy Society’ then you probably are doing it wrong.’

86476 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Tim Bidie, #572 of 1392 🔗

X-Files Season 7, Episode 21 “Je Souhaite:” Mulder asks genie for peace on Earth, didn’t quite turn out how he expected…

86466 Tim Bidie, 5, #573 of 1392 🔗

Common sense for youngsters, top tip No 395

‘If most people suffering severe symptoms from covid 19 are immunocompromised, at least consider it possible that a lot of jolly nice other people may very well be immune’

86477 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 13, #574 of 1392 🔗

So after being up until 04:30 this morning mopping out the house after last night’s storm over Edinburgh I had the need to visit Sainsbury’s and home store & more later this morning. Breezed through Sainsbury’s maskless sad to report 95% customer maskage, few stares but I was enjoying the freedom and being as tired and pissed off as I am I wasn’t in the mood for any confrontation. Man on the till was a miserable twat but he was fully masked on a very warm day.

Next stop home stores & more for mops.

‘Welcome sir, we have a 1 way system throughout the shop’

‘good for you’ off I ambled.

“Sir sir, can you sanitise your hands, we have a sanitiser here’

‘I’m allergic’ off I went smiling, they really don’t know how to respond to non conformists and she was clearly stumped.

I was enjoying myself so much I popped into PC world and bought a pair of headphones, in and out like a sour plum.

Barring the real bedwetters with full glovage and maskage everyone masks up going in and as soon as they leave the shop take them off or are fiddling with them constantly. Woman in front of me was clearly suffering as she pulled it away from he face to take a breath.

Oh and our wonderful landlord visited early this morning and this afternoon to survey the damage, no masks no talk of impending covid doom, no problems, nice adult face to face conversation.

86619 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to stefarm, 3, #575 of 1392 🔗

Good for you is a great response to somebody telling you they have some bullshit system in place.

86671 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Hubes, 2, #576 of 1392 🔗

Twisted her melon as I didn’t fawn over her and the store providing a completely safe environment from a virus that follows the highway code.

86902 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 1, #577 of 1392 🔗

Good for you for stumping the person at the door. Bet he was so used to people just meekly complying that he didn’t know how to react when you said that you’re allergic.

86478 Bella, replying to Bella, #578 of 1392 🔗

Dunno if this has been posted elsewhere, sorry if it has. It seems the tyranny is spreading

86483 ▶▶ anon, replying to Bella, #579 of 1392 🔗

can you check that link?

86489 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to anon, 1, #580 of 1392 🔗

worked for me.. goes to an Anna Brees you tube showing a quarantine pass.

86490 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to mjr, #581 of 1392 🔗

OK thanks – I’ll try again

86485 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 15, #582 of 1392 🔗

I don’t understand why so many people are complaining about having to wear masks, say how stupid the logic (and law is) and then ask why the government is doing this. It’s deliberate mind control, it’s nothing to do with health or with safety.

I believe there is a globalist agenda led by the WEF (aka Davos) which includes, of course, Big Pharma. They stand to make millions, perhaps trillions of dollars from a global vaccine programme. But the virus is dying too soon, so they have to keep up the fear and keep us subdued and compliant, hence the mask edicts (mind control). The masks, like the scaremongering, social distancing and clapping is a sophisticated system of mind control. We are being conditioned to accept more and more authority and less and less civil liberties. It may have started as a virus and public health thing, but it’s no longer about that. It’s about central government control.

I think Johnson is being manipulated. He and his Ministers are too naive and stupid to come up with a plot like this. I hear people say that they are disappointed in BoJo and expected him to have a pair of balls. He never, ever did. He’s an empty vessel, a very good example of politicians controlled by the State, Civil Service etc. May, Cameron and Major are other good examples of puppets, but Boris is in a class of his own.

God help us.

86507 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to flyingjohn, 13, #583 of 1392 🔗

Like David Icke has said, the WEF/Davos/Bill Gates folks are the psychopaths running the show and the politicians are simply useful idiots. There’s no way hapless politicians could have, in coordination, trashed the world economy and locked down billions of people at the same time. Once the fear took over in both the politicians and the public, and any death was not to be tolerated, the globalist agenda could be advanced. It’s insidious and evil.

86625 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to flyingjohn, 1, #584 of 1392 🔗

Yes I would go along with all you say and of course it is clear that we the public are now in very deep trouble, as the government continues an outright war of attrition against us.

As for Boris he is in a class of his own and he must be the globalist cabal’s dream PM, playing the incompetent buffoon, so as to distract the public gaze from the totalitarian state that is being rolled out under our very noses. I would repeat that we are in very deep trouble, that cannot be said too often.

86493 Rowan, replying to Rowan, 14, #585 of 1392 🔗

There’s only so many cock ups, that can be just about tolerated, before we ought to get suspicious. It is now well past the time to ask loudly, whether the all too obvious appearance of a government in total disarray, is actually the intention of Boris and his team of misfits and chancers.

The ploy of deliberate gross incompetence would serve to distract attention away from the very sinister side of what’s going on with Covid-19. Under the radar all the trappings of a totalitarian state are now being methodically put into place.

We are being played, on the grand scale by a government, that is cynically playing the fool.

86543 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Rowan, 5, #586 of 1392 🔗

No one is this incompetent

86556 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #587 of 1392 🔗

Putting my support behind what Rowan and mr Palmer say.

86574 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #588 of 1392 🔗

Just completely out of depth in a bottomless sea? I think the whole machinery is falling apart and like Humpty Dumpty can’t be put together again in any meaningful way. I have fallen out of sync with my country and cannot see a way back. Have you noticed that the PM is absent from much of daily MSM? What is he doing? Does anyone know?

86612 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #589 of 1392 🔗

I don’t think you have quite got the message.

86712 ▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Rowan, 1, #590 of 1392 🔗

Hum. Trying to maintain optimisim that not all is totally f***d. Hard given the evidence.

86500 NickR, replying to NickR, 19, #591 of 1392 🔗

If asked “why no mask?” The best response seems to be, “there are exemptions, you know!” If you feel uncomfortable making a false claim this allows your questioner to infer rather than you imply an exemption, seems to be foolproof.

86506 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to NickR, 9, #592 of 1392 🔗

I like it. Even if you have a genuine exemption there is no need to give any detail though – if it’s health related it’s between you and your doctor, full stop.


86511 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DavidC, 12, #593 of 1392 🔗

Every ‘exemption’ is ‘genuine’. Wearing a mask is definitely distressing and creates observable harm.

86538 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to RickH, 6, #594 of 1392 🔗

Exactly. The govt exemption guidelines are so broad that they basically apply to everyone.

86599 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DavidC, 6, #595 of 1392 🔗

If you feel that a mask would affect your well being then you should simply exempt yourself from participating in this senseless ritual.

86718 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DavidC, #596 of 1392 🔗

Do we have doctors anymore?

86516 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to NickR, 7, #597 of 1392 🔗

There is an official government card to print off. It is free and you don’t need a doctors note.

If plod asks, just say “this is the official exemption card. I was told by the doctor to print one off for health reasons”. Technically as long as a doctor on here (or elsewhere) has suggested it then it is 100% the truth.

86523 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to NickR, 9, #598 of 1392 🔗

If the person asking is not satisfied you could remind them, that they are not entitled to know anything more than that and that discriminating against someone with a disability is very likely to be an offence in law. That being said, I have yet to be questioned by anyone on my regular unmasked trips to several different supermarkets.

86536 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rowan, 7, #599 of 1392 🔗

The worst I get is pointed stares. To which I reply with a smile and sometimes a thumbs up. Thumbs up reserved for the most dedicated Karens, who you can identify from the way they hover whilst giving the pointed stare. These people don’t shrink from contact as you would expect a genuinely scared person to – they actually prolong it in order to shame you. The thumbs up sends them into a rage that even their face nap can’t hide. It’s beautiful.

Have a feeling it would be a lot worse on buses and trains. Hence I’ve been avoiding them.

86546 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Farinances, 9, #600 of 1392 🔗

We’ve been on an occasional bus. We have had a couple of stares but no worse and, like you, we just smile at them. I might add a thumbs up next time!

87153 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #601 of 1392 🔗

Tell them to get well soon.

86553 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Farinances, 9, #602 of 1392 🔗

Went on my first buses today and no one batted an eyelid, including the drivers. On one journey there was another muzzle-free passenger present. Been on loads of trains. Only on one occasion I have had anyone say anything and that where people were worried I’d be caught by the cameras. I educated them and they all turned out to be really fucked off with it all too and one of them took her mask off and bagged it.

86672 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to TheBluePill, 11, #603 of 1392 🔗

Today was my second day with exemption card in hand. My normal bus is usually almost empty. Today there were four passengers, including me. Another woman was maskfree, no exemption card in sight. A second I’ve seen before. She used to carry a scarf and cover with that, but today she was sitting uncovered with a mask in her hand. Yet another woman boarded, exemption paper in hand. Finally, a masked man boarded. Once he saw four women without masks, he slipped his down while he was sitting.

Truly amazing to be sitting on an almost normal bus. The driver wasn’t masked either.

86558 ▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Farinances, 1, #604 of 1392 🔗

I hope you smile beatifically above your raised thumbs. That has been known to make the Karens actually combust.

And, still smiling, mouth the words…’I love oxygen…’ as they slide to the floor….

86582 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Little Red Hen, 2, #605 of 1392 🔗

I think my smile is more demonic but yes, I try to look as shit-eatingly smug as possible.

86578 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Rowan, 6, #606 of 1392 🔗

Tesco said I have to bring in proof of why I’m exempt next time I go. I haven’t been back since as I don’t want to give them any money.

However, while writing this just now I’ve just decided I’ll go in and walk around for a bit without buying anything!

86631 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #607 of 1392 🔗

I don’t think they can do and demand that, yet.

86658 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #609 of 1392 🔗

You do not need to provide proof, nor do you have to explain what your exemption is. Not even to a police officer – they can ‘direct you to wear a face covering’ or ‘direct you to leave the shop’. There is no mention in the law about explaining or proving, only that there are exemptions.

86678 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #610 of 1392 🔗

I agree. Tesco is wrong. No proof or explanation required.

The official information is quite a ways down this page: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

Glad I’m not ordering online from Tesco. Haven’t set foot in a shop since masks were made mandatory.

86727 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #611 of 1392 🔗

That action needs a swift email to Tesco customer services, reminding them of your rights, and the penalties they face.

86635 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Rowan, 8, #612 of 1392 🔗

Got questioned the first time by the shop clerk.
I said I was exempt.
He asked why?
I said, that’s none of your business.
He said, I am just asking in case someone else asks why you don’t wear a mask.
I said, that’s none of their business either.
Study the regulations.

86677 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NickR, 1, #613 of 1392 🔗

Or be sarky: “Your powers of observation do you credit.”

86504 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #614 of 1392 🔗


Scientists are apparently concerned about lack of testing for the Russian vaccine, and quite right too.

But a UK vaccine, previously touted to appear as early as September (just 2 or 3 weeks from now) would of course be 100% safe, and anyone refusing to take it is a dangerous anti-vaxxer…

86514 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #615 of 1392 🔗

I said earilier: the Russian one uses two human adenoviruses as vectors, the AstraZeneca, I think, use a monkey adenovirus and need two shots…

86528 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #616 of 1392 🔗

How dare the Russians do it first?

By it, I mean not only finding a ‘working’ vaccine (we shall see on that score), but finding one in record time, not testing it properly, and giving to millions of people yaaaay!

86565 ▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, #617 of 1392 🔗

Yes good to remember 3 weeks flatten curve, vaccines by September and a full V shaped recovery. All spoken at time of need for the official line. All communicated to us and forgotten by the media.

Each one of these individuals will have contracts of employment stating ‘best’ ‘higest quality’ service to the people. Each of the not worth putting out if on fire.

86660 ▶▶ guy153, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #618 of 1392 🔗

Yes seems like the Guardian are being sore losers in the vaccine race. I thought the Oxford vaccine (almost the same design as the Russian one) was also going into preemptive production?

Enhancement is the big risk I agree but I don’t think it’s ADE specifically but caused by immune system imbalance. The problem is even phase 3 trials and/or challenge trials won’t really prove it won’t happen. It might be something that’s more likely to affect someone with a poor immune system in the first place, perhaps after the initial antibodies from the vaccine have gone down. Lots of unknowns.

Will be amusing to see the Guardian change their tune when the Oxford vaccine is ready. It will be wonderful and safe in spite of being very similar (spike protein RNA inside an adenovirus)

86731 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to guy153, 1, #619 of 1392 🔗

Yes, I think they’ve made millions of doses of the Oxford vaccine already, but I might be wrong.

86512 tonys, replying to tonys, 22, #620 of 1392 🔗

Sky news running around Manchester finding pubs and cafes that are not following ‘the rules’, youngish journalist reports they had to leave one bar because they ‘didn’t feel safe’ . How utterly vile these people are.

86524 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to tonys, 10, #621 of 1392 🔗

It wasn’t the virus they were scared of.
It was the locals.

86526 ▶▶ Mark, replying to tonys, 9, #622 of 1392 🔗

Tbh, there are pubs in Manchester where I wouldn’t “feel safe”, and I grew up there (and in fact actually I wasn’t safe in some of them and got bruises to prove it). Surely they didn’t actually mean they were scared of catching The Virus!? It still staggers me every time I encounter someone willing to admit to such idiocy in public.

86515 tallandbald, replying to tallandbald, 12, #623 of 1392 🔗

Daily Fail with the fear porn about cases “surging” falling on deaf ears again.
I like this particular comment…

77 really ??.. are those genuine deaths, or most probably the made up deaths, assumed deaths misreported deaths or delayed deaths … Oh forgot we are going to be given three different daily death tolls soon … just to confuse us a bit more .. another controlling technique

86521 ▶▶ anon, replying to tallandbald, 1, #624 of 1392 🔗

77 you say?

86531 ▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to anon, #625 of 1392 🔗

Commenter’s point about today’s article. I was only interested in the comments and which way they were swinging.

86552 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to tallandbald, 1, #626 of 1392 🔗

yes sorry I realised that.

it wasnt really a question for you

it’s just these pesky numbers that keep popping up.

33 77 etc

they really do keep popping up.

almost like a nod to those in the know

86567 ▶▶▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to anon, #627 of 1392 🔗

I have noticed that come to think of it…. Almost like when you are trying to come up with a false number it is an unconscious thought to arrive at these double digit numbers..

86713 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to anon, #628 of 1392 🔗

Good old US of A had a bad case of the “33s” either last week or the one before, loads of news programs reporting 33 new deaths, cases or other things related to the pandemic. It really was rather comical. Bacofoil hat on.

86861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #629 of 1392 🔗

I’m pretty sure they do this to

-mock the ignorant
-invoke helpless anger amongst plebs who’ve figured it out
-hat tip / lol to those in the know

there’s deeper / basic programming involved too

86666 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to tallandbald, 1, #630 of 1392 🔗

I do my best to help the swing in the correct direction. Never read the DM until recently, but now I comment on as many articles as I can, or at least until my blood pressure starts to rise. Lots of commenters are wondering if there are paid government agents trying to swing public opinion. Can’t disagree.

86655 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to tallandbald, 1, #631 of 1392 🔗

Article is https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8619125/UK-announces-11-coronavirus-deaths-early-count-taking-total-number-victims-46-639.html . Yes all 77 died of Covid, not with it . Total number of infections 345000. Yes 345000 people all walking around infected -not a single one will ever recover. 1009 today down from 1148 yesterday. Cue headline “Infections fall 10%” err not.

86725 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to arfurmo, #632 of 1392 🔗

Can’t they get it through their heads that a one-day trend is NOT a trend?

86525 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #633 of 1392 🔗


Hilarious. Track and trace should be shut down immediately, it’s obviously a huge vector of disease.

86580 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #634 of 1392 🔗

Or in the Who document (as they all like to quote WHO) Not Recommended in any circumstances – Contact tracing. Quality of Evidence – very low (unknown).

86639 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to A. Contrarian, #635 of 1392 🔗

There’s one social distancing ambassador.

God I hope I never return to work although ironic the social distancing ambassador can’t be traced

“but I’ve not seen him for a few weeks – I think he’s on holiday.”

86641 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to stefarm, #636 of 1392 🔗

got lynched.

like the milk monitor

snitches get stitches

86665 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to anon, #637 of 1392 🔗

Maybe he is at the ambassador’s party eating ferrero rochet

86721 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to stefarm, 3, #638 of 1392 🔗

My friend has just been made Covid Officer at the gym where she works… Sadly she’s all for it.

The social distancing ambassador has socially distanced himself so successfully that he can no longer be found.

86570 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to mjr, 5, #640 of 1392 🔗


86584 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Lockdown Truth, #641 of 1392 🔗

thankyou…. i couldn’t remember which detective it was

86595 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to mjr, 4, #642 of 1392 🔗

I don’t even know what fucking day it is

86596 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to anon, 1, #643 of 1392 🔗

Me neither, seriously. I have to think hard.

86604 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to mjr, 2, #644 of 1392 🔗

It couldn’t be worse if they tried.

Oh wait, it was of their making.

86613 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to mjr, 3, #645 of 1392 🔗

The problem with elected Ministers is that they have no clue over the area they are responsible for: he thinks this is unprecedented, anyone with a grain of intelligence and a vague knowledge of economy foresaw this in March! If the thinks this is unprecedented, wait till next quarter’s data is out!

86633 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to mjr, 2, #646 of 1392 🔗

He may be Dishy Rishy but he’ll quickly become Shitdish

86634 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to mjr, #647 of 1392 🔗


86688 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 1, #648 of 1392 🔗


86719 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to mjr, 2, #649 of 1392 🔗

There are so many puzzling aspects of the government response to this pandemic, but a total inability to see this coming is perhaps one of the most bizarre.

86926 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, #650 of 1392 🔗

I think that this is all an act – they knew full well what they were doing, it was deliberate.. Enough MPs attend Davos and other international forums where such decisions are made..

86761 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mjr, 2, #651 of 1392 🔗

He doesn’t give a shit – look at his face, he can hardly stop the smarmy smirk from breaking out.

86916 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 1, #652 of 1392 🔗

Needs a history lesson stat!

86564 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #653 of 1392 🔗

Returning to the Simon Dolan Court Case challenging the government’s handling of the coronavirus epidemic, part of the government’s case was that the precautionary principle (PP) applied:

’10. In deciding how to respond to the pandemic, and, critically, how to protect the fundamental Article 2 rights of the population, the Government has had to make a series of judgment calls, based on the best scientific evidence and advice available to it at any given time.

11. It has, for obvious reason given the scale and severity of the threat posed by the virus, proceeded on a precautionary basis. Fundamental rights, including the right to life, are at stake. Evidence as to the characteristics, transmission and effects of the virus have been and, although understanding has developed at pace, remain uncertain.’

PP in English Health & Safety (H&S) Law derives from eu law, article 174 of the EC treaty on the environment, extended into H&S in 2000 then incorporated into English H&S law by a ‘Mr Blair’, whoever he was……

The House of Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology considered PP as long ago as 2005.

In view of the ongoing debate surrounding the use of the precautionary principle we decided to include it in our terms of reference for this inquiry. We explored its application, primarily at an EU level…’

Their conclusion?

‘…..in view of the lack of consensus over its meaning and application, we have found little practical use for the precautionary principle.’


‘…. the Government maintained that the precautionary principle “is valuable in dealing with uncertainty”, although it went on to make clear that, in practice, the principle is “interpreted as a flexible precautionary approach” which should be adopted alongside other research and monitoring and that “highly restrictive or expensive precautionary interventions should be reviewed on a regular basis in the light of research findings and new data.” This approach to practical application appears wholly sensible, but does not support the case for the retention of a precautionary principle .

In our view, the terms “precautionary principle” and “precautionary approach” in isolation from any such clarification have been the subject of such confusion and different interpretations as to be devalued and of little practical help, particularly in public debate. Indeed, without such clarification and explanation, to elevate the precautionary approach or principle to a scientific methodology, which can be proved or disproved to have been applied in any particular case, is both unrealistic and impractical. It also provides ammunition for those seeking to promote an overly cautious approach to innovation or exposure to any risk at all.


‘….expensive precautionary interventions should be reviewed on a regular basis in the light of research findings and new data.’

The British taxpayer pays huge sums in taxation for its representatives to provide effective government.

This they have clearly failed to provide, disregarding their own carefully deliberated and sensible advice.

It is a measure of the magnitude of their dereliction of duty that recourse to law is the only avenue now available for redress, for the entire 65 million plus population of this country and even then only on appeal.

Our whole system of government, legal system, has failed us, been found hopelessly wanting, subject, only, to appeal.

The fact that the appeal will not take place until 28th September yet further underlines the obsolete inutility of both governmental and legal systems in England.

Thousands have died and are still dying before their time as a direct consequence of this unending sequence of massive and grotesque incompetencies.

In such urgency, how can consideration of redress take so long?

86583 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #654 of 1392 🔗

What is the Americanism ‘judgement call’ doing in any professional discussion of English law?

86627 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #655 of 1392 🔗

1. The recent case of R (Parkinson) v HM Senior Coroner Kent, Dartford and Gravesham NHS Trust and Dr
Hijazi (Interested Parties) [2018] EWHC 1501 (Admin) provides a helpful summary of the relationship
of Article 2 of the ECHR to coroner’s inquest proceedings.
2. Singh LJ summarises the position in medical cases between paragraphs 83 and 89:
‘Article 2 imposes both substantive positive obligations on the state and procedural obligations.
The primary substantive positive obligation is to have in place a regulatory framework compelling hospitals, whether
private or public, to adopt appropriate measures for the protection of patients’ lives.
The primary procedural obligation is to have a system of law in place, whether criminal or civil, by which individual
failures can be the subject of an appropriate remedy. In the law of England and Wales that is achieved by having a
criminal justice system, which can in principle hold to account a healthcare professional who causes a patient’s death by
gross negligence; and a civil justice system, which makes available a possible civil claim for negligence. We note that, in
the present case, there is in fact an extant civil claim which has been brought by the Claimant against the NHS Trust
which ran the hospital (which is the First Interested Party in the present judicial review proceedings).
The enhanced duty of investigation, which falls upon the state itself to initiate an effective and independent investigation,
will only arise in medical cases in limited circumstances, where there is an arguable breach of the state’s own substantive
obligations under Article 2.
Where the state has made adequate provision for securing high professional standards among health professionals and
the protection of the lives of patients, matters such as an error of judgment on the part of a health professional or
negligent coordination among health professionals in the treatment of a particular patient are not sufficient of themselves
to call the state to account under Article 2.
However, there may be exceptional cases which go beyond mere error or medical negligence, in which medical staff, in
breach of their professional obligations, fail to provide emergency medical treatment despite being fully aware that a
person’s life would be put at risk if that treatment is not given. In such a case the failure will result from a dysfunction
in the hospital’s services and this will be a structural issue linked to the deficiencies in the regulatory framework.
At the risk of over-simplification, the crucial distinction is between a case where there is reason to believe that there may
have been a breach which is a “systemic failure”, in contrast to an “ordinary” case of medical negligence’
3. It is also noted that, at para. 21 in the case of Rabone v Pennine Care NHS Trust [2012] UKSC 2,
Lord Dyson said the following:”… It is clear that the existence of a ‘real and immediate risk’ to life is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the
existence of the duty. This is because … a patient undergoing major surgery may be facing a real and immediate risk of
death and yet the Powell case shows that there is no Article 2 operational duty to take reasonable steps to avoid the
death of such a patient.”
4. Para. 196 of the case Lopes de Sousa Fernandes v Portugal (app. no. 56080/13), judgment of 19
December 2017, the Court (Grand Chamber) said:
“There must be a link between the dysfunction complained of and the harm which the patient sustained.”
5. Again at para. 196, the Court said:
“The dysfunction at issue must have resulted from the failure of the State to meet its obligation to provide a regulatory
framework in the broader sense indicated above …”

86568 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 25, #656 of 1392 🔗

Back from the dentist…. I know I said it was yesterday… but I’m getting old!!!
So, ring the bell to be allowed in (can’t let any riff raff to enter) dental assistant opens door.
My wife & I step back!! A really warm welcome…. Muzzled, visored, aproned & pointing a temperature probe at us! This is going to go well!
Dental assistant, ” I need to take your temperature?”
Me, ” Why”
DA ” Because I have to”
Me ” Why”
DA ” Because I have to”
Me ” I haven’t got a temperature”
Wife ” If I had a temperature of +38 degrees I’d be home in bed”
DA ” I have to or you can’t come in”
Me ” Do we have to wear a mask?”
DA ” Yes”
Me ” We’re not”
DA looks aghast
ME ” We are exempt”
DA ” OH… Have you Asthma?”
Me ” You don’t need to know, I don’t have to tell you anything. That’s discrimination”
DA ” Err.. I wasn’t discriminating against you”
Me ” That’s how it sounded”
DA ” Well I wasn’t”
Me ” Take our Temp then”

We were both 37.5.

Got inside the portal, DA ” You have to sanitise your hands”
Wife did, I pretended. Inside to the reception, 1 other person in at the other end of the room. Elderly lady, no mask, the receptionist had mask, behind 5 foot plastic screens, constantly touching & pulling down from her mouth.
Both had to sign the I Pad , then had gel sprayed onto our hands!
Wife went upstairs first, receptionist still pulling at her mask. ” you don’t have to wear it if you are distressed”
“I have to”
Me ” No you don’t”
This went on for a bit then I pulled out this on my phone,

The list of premises that remain excluded and where face covering is not required is:

  • Premises (other than registered pharmacies) providing wholly or mainly medical or dental services, audiology services, chiropody, chiropractic, osteopathic, optometry or other medical services including services relating to mental health.

“I didn’t know that, can you show that to the Dentist?”
I said I would. She then said that she has to wear a mask to stop her transmitting the virus.
” Have ypu got it?
I asked if she knew that the infection rate for Leicestershire is less than 11 / 100,000 & that the average for the EU including the UK is 24 / 100,00. she didn’t know.
I told her to look at the Lockdown sceptics site. She said she would.
My turn for the dentist, As soon as I walked in the dentist started to tell me that she was following what the NHS told her to do. I said that what the DA had asked us at the door was discrimination & that she shouldn’t be telling her staff to ask. I showed her the law governing masks, she didn’t know & said she would look into it.

Well of course no drilling or water allowed due to us all being killed by covid aerosol.

Finished & the dentist asked again what the site was.I told her it was on the Gov.UK site & is easier to read on Law or Fiction.
I might have got them to start questioning!

All told an utter mess. Dental training, you would have thought that they should be questioning everything.
Hopefully for our next 6month check up it might be different?
Not holding my breath!

Sorry it’s a bit long, but had to get it out!

86586 ▶▶ anon, replying to smileymiley, 3, #657 of 1392 🔗

good for you

I remember when people revered doctors dentists etc (the former being almost worshipped – think basil Fawlty ‘ahhhh two doctors?!)

after this fiasco I don’t see how anyone can look up to them

86591 ▶▶ Edward, replying to smileymiley, 7, #658 of 1392 🔗

They call themselves professionals but they haven’t checked the legislation which applies to them.

86593 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to smileymiley, 1, #659 of 1392 🔗

What if you have a severe toothache and you need a filling?

86601 ▶▶▶ tonys, replying to Tenchy, 5, #660 of 1392 🔗

They’ll pull it out instead, welcome back Middle Ages it’s been awhile!

86611 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to smileymiley, 10, #661 of 1392 🔗

Interestingly there was a representative of the dental practise governing body on the radio earlier this afternoon. He was basically saying that whilst there is a theoretical risk from certain aerosol generating procedures, in practise there is no evidence of any transmission of the virus to/from dentists anywhere in the world. He went on to say that the rules being forced upon them in the UK are far stricter than any other country. They are lobbying the government to attempt to get them to follow reality rather than the totally theoretical risk

86618 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to The Spingler, 3, #662 of 1392 🔗

An attempt to get the government to follow reality has no chance.

86698 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to The Spingler, 3, #663 of 1392 🔗

A friend had an emergency appointment with his dentist on Monday, not bad as he has been waiting since April!

This friend seems to be getting tired of this non sense, rather than sceptical, was asked to remove his hat and put it into a Tupperware box where upon it was sprayed with something, he sarcastically asked if the dental assistant wanted his shoes and socks as well, the assistant said not thanks, as if my friend had asked a serious question.

When he final got in the chair for his tooth to be repaired, he questioned the dentist about all the palaver with sprays and floor mopping etc.

Dentist said it was to cover them legally, in case anyone claims they caught the virus whilst at the dentist.

The floor was mopped as soon as my friend moved around the dental surgery, he said thankful the stairs are carpeted otherwise they could have has an health and safety issue with wet stairs.

86717 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dave #KBF, #664 of 1392 🔗

But but… what if someone catches it from the carpet?!

87166 ▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Dave #KBF, #665 of 1392 🔗

“cover them legally” Ever considered doing a risk assessment on that? OTH the risk of a patient choosing to go elsewhere is also very low due to poor dental services across the country. Overall, patients don’t matter, dentists do whatever they like.

86630 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to smileymiley, 2, #666 of 1392 🔗

It’s more that in other countries they’ve been doing full dental treatments. Apparently Covid is choosy as to nationality

86920 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, #667 of 1392 🔗

Yes, oddly Swedish dentists seem not to be imposing any more hygiene rules than normal – at least my dentist hasn’t been..

86642 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to smileymiley, 4, #668 of 1392 🔗

At my private dentist the madness finished at pressing the doorbell for entry. After that it’s normal service. The dentist is a sceptic.

86662 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #669 of 1392 🔗

I wish I knew if my dentist is. My upcoming check is only the second one at this practice, and I’m afraid that it may be more like smileymiley than yours. I’ve already postponed the appointment once, but I’m tempted to postpone it again. However, I’m becoming more and more convinced that sanity isn’t going to return any time soon.

86648 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to smileymiley, #670 of 1392 🔗

How to make life difficult in one easy step…

86569 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #671 of 1392 🔗

I got a letter from my GP today. My asthma review is due:

‘Due to the current Coronavirus situation all appointments will be telephone consultations’

I normally do a peak-flow test (where you breathe hard down a tube), get weighed, blood-pressure tested etc. How can the practice nurse deduce from a telephone consultation how well/badly my asthma is doing? I assume she just has a tick-sheet with basic questions on it such as how often I tell her I’m using my inhaler.

86573 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #672 of 1392 🔗

She is going to ask you to do some heavy breathing down the phone.

86579 ▶▶ anon, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #673 of 1392 🔗

ask the useless buggers why the hell they are carrying on like this

if they are genuine medics they know this is BS


maybe a sarcastic question, ‘so do I put the face covering on before inhaling?’ (lots of heavy breathing / fidgeting and a quick push on the inhaler if you can manage it)

86597 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to anon, 10, #674 of 1392 🔗

I will go with your first suggestion 🙂 as I’m definitely going to have a go at challenging this. They must know, on some level, that they’re colluding with this shit-show. I’m don’t have asthma badly but people with much more serious conditions are being failed and these collaborators need shaming.

86637 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #675 of 1392 🔗

good for you. apply pressure if you can. I think this will play on them. especially if a few more do the same thing

oh and of course they bloody know, pathetic creeps! these godheads have been worshipped too long!

sorry rant over…

I really would consider doing something (feigned as following the rules like a good Brit) that they might be shocked at in an over the phone ‘consultation’. mask based obviously. maybe talk a bit louder too and ignore them if they start shouting , ‘no don’t do that!’ maybe the mask / inhaler routine.

86598 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #676 of 1392 🔗

If we’re not getting the full service then it’s time to reduce our taxes.

86610 ▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #677 of 1392 🔗

You paid in all your life for this service and this is what you’ve got. Telephone conversations with your GP; “111” – people on minimum wage reading from a script. Don’t present at A & E. Consult your pharmacist. Waiting lists for God knows how long.

I have savings and if ill health should strike I won’t be troubling the NHS. Which is presumably what they’re banking on.

87158 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Dave Tee, #678 of 1392 🔗

More leisure time to create dancing videos.

86621 ▶▶ Tempest John, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #679 of 1392 🔗

I was due annual COPD review early June. I enquired when this would happen. Was told someone would be in touch by post (?). Not happened yet. I’ll just have to look after myself! It’s a large practice but on passing the staff car park, there are very few vehicles present! Not going to ask where they all are.

86679 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tempest John, #680 of 1392 🔗

Unfortunately I have been to see a GP twice during this farce. Our practice normally have 4 permanent & 2 locum GPs occasionally supplemented by GPs in training. I have seen a max of 2 GPs at the site during lockdown.

The site is almost shutdown, ordinarily people would be getting bloods taken etc. Non of that seems to be happening.

87159 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tempest John, #681 of 1392 🔗

At the beach?

86624 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #682 of 1392 🔗

Unfortunately an asthma review is something that we cannot do in an urgent care centre, if we could we would. I am seeing patients who have had their problems for weeks or even months and should be managed by their GP as we cannot order any tests. There are times when I’ve had no alternative but to send to A&E.

86636 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to p02099003, 2, #683 of 1392 🔗

It must be really difficult to be in your position. My asthma review would normally be at the GP’s surgery. It’s not urgent – it’s no big deal but it might be a different story if I get another respiratory infection, come the winter.

I can’t see any reason why all GPs can’t be operating normally now. Surely health professionals of all people can see that the risk to them (or anyone else) is negligible but the growing waiting lists and lack of primary care is actually killing people.

I don’t mind too much for myself but it’s the principle. People with serious health conditions are just being fobbed off and as Guy de la Bedoyere reports, if you’re over 70 with something that might make you go blind, well, tough!

My husband’s annual leukaemia screening, already postponed for 6 months, will be by phone on 11 September and he’s still waiting for our GP to sort out taking his bloods before then. So far, silence.

86841 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #684 of 1392 🔗

My GP practice decided, out of the blue, to institute temperature checks at entry. If abnormal appointment will be cancelled until I’ve been for a test.
I wrote to them protesting at how ridiculous this was – there are many reasons for having a high temperature.
My letter completely ignored. Thinking of complaining to the Clinical Commissioning Group next and then looking at options to change GP.

86854 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Polemon2, #685 of 1392 🔗

Good luck, you do right.

86995 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #686 of 1392 🔗

I think BecJT has a lot of knowledge on that.

86576 Drawde927, 2, #687 of 1392 🔗

I hope the “Government by Chaos” article gets read by at least a few politicians. A very well-written and damning summary of the current state of the UK, almost a counterpart to this one https://www.aier.org/article/dont-live-your-life-in-a-bubble/ from the USA.
Even if they disagree with its points, it just might open their eyes to the effect of their actions and how they’re perceived by a steadily growing number of people!

86585 Nic, replying to Nic, 7, #688 of 1392 🔗

More testing more cases , but deaths falling notice the comments in the newspapers are getting more sceptical , how much longer can they keep this scam up ?

86588 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nic, 11, #689 of 1392 🔗

It’s running out of steam. Watch them start to get frantic. Invest in popcorn.

86594 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 15, #690 of 1392 🔗

I hope so, watching this shit-show fall apart will be like watching the best thing ever. Ever.

86606 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 4, #691 of 1392 🔗

I have looked forward to this moment Mr Johnson; I intend to enjoy it to the full.

With apologies to the scriptwriters of For Your Eyes Only .

86649 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #692 of 1392 🔗

“History isn’t kind to men who play god”. How’s that, not even out yet!

86617 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nic, #693 of 1392 🔗

I’ve noticed that, not that the MSM are taking any notice of the comments.

86589 zacaway, 15, #694 of 1392 🔗

Saw this well written personal account against masks:

Choice quote:

This is my body and nobody gets any say in any part of it. Not the government, not the police and certainly not a Karen in the veg aisle.

86603 Lockdown Truth, #695 of 1392 🔗


I forgot to attache the graph showing deaths in DR Congo which made the whole post a bit pointless. Revised version here .

86608 ExtremelyNaughtyBoy, replying to ExtremelyNaughtyBoy, #696 of 1392 🔗

Thoughts on ignoring the travel quarantine? Is it legally enforceable? Does anyone do spot checks? Is the fine ‘up to £1000’ but really just a telling off? Are there any loopholes?

I’m in a country that looks at risk of being added to the naughty list but shall not be staying at home for the last two weeks of the UK Summer in any case.

86652 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to ExtremelyNaughtyBoy, 3, #697 of 1392 🔗

A chef returning to Guernsey has just been fined £2k because he stopped to buy milk on his way home, the shopkeeper recognised him and grassed to the police.

Disgraceful – what sort of society have we created. The chef should set up a crowd funder, I’d bung him £20 to help pay the fine.

86758 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to The Spingler, 1, #698 of 1392 🔗

Stasi East Britain

86922 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to The Spingler, #699 of 1392 🔗

Depressing. Its like the Soviet Union under Stalin.

86711 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to ExtremelyNaughtyBoy, #700 of 1392 🔗

My colleague came from Estonia in June and had to quarantine. Nobody checked. She walked her dog every day.

86629 ▶▶ Will, replying to p02099003, 6, #702 of 1392 🔗

Now that is a tragedy. Hopefully Imran who had the guts to open up from lockdown when he saw the terrible damage it was doing will be able to get to grips with this.

86622 Biker, replying to Biker, 20, #703 of 1392 🔗

i thought i’d write my obituary

Biker rode fast died slow. He didn’t give a fuck, smoked, drank, took drugs and sought the company of loose woman. He was doing fine just living and then the Chinese made Flu released on the world resulted in him being bored to death and he just faded away to dust. Some say he rides a ghost bike in the sky, fucking angels and smoking weed with Bob Marley, others say he still lives and can be found up a mountain in a little shack. Either way he’s dead now and it’s all the fault of some little wong tong fucker who wanted to stop Trump from showing the world how China is a giant fucking concentration camp and they make all the shit we buy in our shops.

1970 to ……….

86632 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 1, #704 of 1392 🔗

I like it 👏

86645 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Biker, 15, #705 of 1392 🔗

OK, can see a trend developing.

Laura, born in the 1960’s enjoyed a carefree childhood, riding her bike, roller skating in the road and walking to school. Many times she injured herself (in one case suffering severe concussion) but was never taken to A&E.

On reaching adulthood, she travelled extensively (sometimes alone) and suffered no harm. She smoked, drank and had sex with men she probably shouldn’t have.

Reaching her 50’s she still managed to keep active. Until, in 2020 she gave up on life after the ‘Great Flu’ stopped her gym, yoga, social life, travel and everything else that made her life worthwhile.

Sadly, she quietly faded away.

1961 to……..

87015 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Laura Suckling, #706 of 1392 🔗

as a fifty year old man i admire a woman of your experience is still fucking men she shouldn’t.

86646 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, 10, #707 of 1392 🔗

His rebel spirit lives on in all us sceptics. And the roar of his Triumph can be heard throughout the land…

86745 ▶▶ peter, replying to Biker, -2, #708 of 1392 🔗

Bill Gates is Jewish not Chinese

86626 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 21, #709 of 1392 🔗

A bit of a rubbish day on our holiday, today. In a charming market town with the ladies in my life keen to go into various shops, all of which are plastered with Covid-tastic warning signs as though they are a positive feature. They are prepared to don the masks in the incredible heat and go through with it. Me, I declined and said I’d go to a pub. But the pubs had warning signs like “Do not lean on the bar”, or “Wait here while we take your details for T&T”, “Use our app for payment”, so I just sweltered in the heat and waited until we could go back to the car. My daughter is furious: “It’s the same for everyone; you can’t change it, so why can’t you just put on the mask?”

Now very depressed. This really is spoiling my life. And just so weird seeing everyone else walking around with damp rags hanging from their wrists, ready to put them on without any hesitation, giving their tacit approval to the ‘policy’. The mask already resembles reading glasses or the carrying of a brolly; a fact of life that people might lightheartedly grumble or joke about, but in no way resent carrying.

86647 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #710 of 1392 🔗

You should have come to Wales for your hols!

Just back from local supermarket. A few, maybe two, masked up but the rest of us mask free and happy. Long may it last. I’m dreading the day Drakeford caves into the massive pressure being put on him to follow England

86628 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 5, #711 of 1392 🔗

Hurray! Deaths with Covid 19 have fallen off a cliff -by 5377 to be exact. About time too.

86720 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Margaret, #712 of 1392 🔗

Does that mean we have to retract any sympathies we may have mistakenly given to the families of those who died? This would bring the deaths in line with all other causes that were ignored throughout this time.

86638 Awkward Git, 3, #713 of 1392 🔗

I found this interesting:


You need to see his graphs to fully understand why the comments are as they are but as you’re an intelligent bunch you’ll have good idea why anyway.

As author asks himself:

But the really interesting question is this. If countries like the UK and Italy had taken the Swedish approach, instead of messing up the economy and people’s lives for months on end, would the end result in terms of COVID cases and deaths have been much, or indeed any, different? Looking at the Swedish graph during March and early April, I’m coming to doubt it.

The comments on Luxembourg’s strategy:

Now, that’s an epidemic management strategy I like. Use the first peak to work out exactly what the limits are on your health care resources. Then relax the lockdowns bit by bit, and don’t worry about how many new cases you get, until you are getting near the limits of your resources. If that does threaten to happen, re-introduce the most effective lockdown you have available.
“Genius, Holmes!” “Elementary, my dear Watson.”
So, they unlocked everything on July 16th. On July 19th, they re-introduced “Restrictions on medium size gatherings (11-100 people).” The effect, if I can believe my graphs, seems to have been both instant and spectacular. So, as the Blavatnik data tells (but my graph cuts off the day before), they unlocked again on July 28th. Well done the Letzebuergesch! (That’s what they call themselves in their own language). And now, they know they can do the same thing again if they ever need to.
It’s a pity that buffoons like Boris Johnson don’t have ideas (or even advisors) as good as these.

On Japan:

So much for the idea that Japanese formality and their less physical ways of socializing would keep them safe from the dreaded COVID! But kudos to the Japanese for not panicking. Yet, at least. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out.

Final comments:

So, have the COVID lock-downs been cock-ups – or even, perhaps, fully-fledged snafus? The evidence from much of the world points, in my view, to the answer Yes.

It remains only for me to castigate the UK government for all the crap they’ve thrown at us in this “sceptred isle” over the last five months. ….Some heads may roll, I expect. But not nearly enough.

86643 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #714 of 1392 🔗

Well, well. First black mark for Wetherspoon’s. Went with Lady Sybil this lunchtime, to meet the brother in law. Ominous short queue at door. Asked by door person to fill in T&T, there and then.

SV: “It’s voluntary, we don’t have to”.
Staff: “Yes you do, you can talk to a manager if you like…” At this point, a boy came over;
Manager(?): “You need to fill in the form”
SV: “Government guidance says it’s voluntary”
Manager: “Head office have said we have to do this, I can’t let you in if not, it’s my job, blah…”

We were meeting the BiL, so I filled it in – fake of course, and illegible because my hands were shaking with anger. Manager guy then pulls it out of the box “to check it – you need to put the time on”.

Played along for quiet life, but would have left if not meeting someone else.

I didn’t know if it really was Wethy’s policy, but I certainly suspected the influence of ‘Shut the Pubs’ Burnham. Either way, Wethy’s and Burnham are acting against Gov guidance – and that’s all it is, guidance. Maybe the Sky News thing factors into it as well.

On reflection, it may be worth playing along (false info, of course) in order to keep Burnham’s hit squads at bay and our pubs open, but I’m certainly going to drop a line to Wethy’s, pointing out they are overstepping, but understanding they are in a cleft stick.

Once home, I checked the ‘W’ website, and the FAQ has been updated today; what used to be in effect “we won’t make you complete the form” now reads:

NHS Test and Trace is an important tool for the NHS in the fight against the spread of COVID-19 – and we encourage all customers to complete a form.

Note, no mention of condition of entry.

Anyway, BiL turned up, no one on door, walked straight in! Of course, if they really wanted to do it right, they should have stopped us meeting with someone form outside our household…

So, we had our discounted grub, and as we left, I saw that a notice had appeared on the door re: ‘No T&T, no entry’. It will cause ridiculous queues at busy times, and it will all have been wasted when Burnham spits his dummy anyway.

You will be stunned to hear that there is a testing centre just over the road.

It can be got round with false info, but it’s yet more mission creep* from Mayor Killjoy. I will defer judgement for now.

*(going forward, obviously 😉 )

86685 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #715 of 1392 🔗

I believe, and have for some time, that there is a nasty Temperance undercurrent in this country that is rearing its head, and the British pub is very much in its sights. The British pub is, well, British, and part of our heritage. There is some bad behaviour, of course, and much of the problem stems from the lack of control over the distribution of alcohol that emerged after 1992 (the compliance date for the so-called Beer Orders) when the traditional brewers lost their market – and political – power.

86689 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #716 of 1392 🔗

I’ve thought for a long time that “they” want pubs closed for good as it’s the last place you can meet face-to-face and actually talk without being monitored and find out that you are not alone and feeling like you do and start tormenting trouble.

How many revolutions have started in pubs or drinking dens?

86701 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #717 of 1392 🔗

Yes, that too.

86904 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #718 of 1392 🔗

It seems that our phones now listen in to our conversations if you not not switch off certain settings… in a pub though, there will be a lot of background noise which would prevent a phone from picking up what you are saying. So that may be another reason why they want to close pubs..

86994 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, #719 of 1392 🔗

I’m not a phone junkie, it’s a tool to me, that’s all. I got a new phone a few months ago. I moved from Android 4 to 9 in one go, so quite a lot was new. I was working my way through, turning shit off as I discovered it, but when someone on a tv advert said “OK Google”, and my phone responded – I knew I had to work harder.

87017 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sam Vimes, #720 of 1392 🔗

I have several phones, a LGG5 and a MotoG. Neither one is connected to a network anymore since I was cancelled in early June yet I still get messages from Google. They are built into the operating system.

86799 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Sam Vimes, #721 of 1392 🔗


If someone does not wish to share their details, or provides incorrect information Although this is voluntary, please encourage customers and visitors to share their details in order to support NHS Test and Trace and advise them that this information will only be used where necessary to help stop the spread of COVID-19.
If a customer or visitor informs you that they do not want their details shared for the purposes of NHS Test and Trace, they can choose to opt out, and if they do so you should not share their information used for booking purposes with NHS Test and Trace.

86925 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Sam Vimes, #722 of 1392 🔗

Very disappointing from Wetherspoons …. gradually everything is conforming, it’s all going the wrong way.

86644 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 6, #723 of 1392 🔗

First line of this piece in the DT

“Spain’s coronavirus lockdown was the strictest of all – and it worked.”

But the article goes onto say how cases have been accelerating now lockdown has been lifted.

Maybe I’m being dense here but that surely means the draconian lockdown didn’t work, all it did was press the pause button?


86651 ▶▶ Julian, replying to The Spingler, 1, #724 of 1392 🔗

I suppose it depends what you mean by worked. If the intention was to “pause” while a cure/vaccine was found or hospital capacity ramped up, I suppose it could have worked a bit. If by worked you mean made the virus disappear for good, by some magic, then obviously not. This is the fundamental problem with lockdowns that to be fair Ferguson admitted but wasn’t really talked about openly – there’s no exit strategy other than a vaccine.

86700 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to The Spingler, #725 of 1392 🔗

How did it work? They had similar deaths per million to the UK (which didn’t lock down hard or early enough, has the highest death count in Europe etc etc) and more deaths per million than Sweden (which has been disastrous, they should have locked down like everyone else, etc etc).

86781 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to The Spingler, #726 of 1392 🔗

Spanish infections are back up into the 000s, but no increase in deaths. This is what’s important. It appears, touch wood, to be positive test results of asymptomatic people. Like almost everywhere else.

Claiming lockdowns work is clutching at straws. MSM and political class have been caught out. Serves them right.

86897 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Spingler, #727 of 1392 🔗

Is it possible the new rise in infections is due to people wearing masks?

86650 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #728 of 1392 🔗

Hospital admissions. Scotland. In a week.

Hospital admissions: week ending 5 August: 3 COVID-19 patients were admitted to hospital.


3. Three. 1+1+1.

Population 5.5 million plus tourists.

No deaths.

260-265 in hospital, underlyings.

2-4 in ICU.

86656 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Basics, 1, #729 of 1392 🔗

Ah! – but how many cases? How are they doing?

86675 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ned of the Hills, #730 of 1392 🔗

Scottish numbers: 12 August 2020
47 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 1.0% of newly tested individuals.

11,878 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results.

They have cooked up a schools opening story today with a school cluster of 8 pupils. Only it wasn’t a cluster at the school because the positives were already isolating and so never actually went to the school. Chip paper.

86726 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Basics, 1, #731 of 1392 🔗

Thank you.

Similar stats in the Auld Sod. 40 new cases today. 4 hospital admissions (two days ago that is – the stats come in late for that). 1 Death.

Cases very much on the rise, but the admission and mortality curves remaining fairly asymptotic.

86756 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ned of the Hills, #732 of 1392 🔗

As written about at length the tests depend on which way the wind blows.

In hospital rates are stable at 260. No death and few admissions, nearly zero in icu. All data is Scot gov based which is contradicted by NRS. Same conflict between PHE and ONS data in England.

86714 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, #733 of 1392 🔗

I’m glad they’re not acting like New Zealand at least.

86653 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 3, #734 of 1392 🔗

URGENT. There is a new HUGE RISK raising it’s head today.

This new 1000 new cases per day threshold that suggests “acceptable incidence”.

Has anyone got the testing per day metrics to hand to put come context around this?

We are clearly testing more and more each day and guess what this is now being used to I assume find more draconian ways to lock us all back down, as we are finding cases that will remain in the general population as it builds herd immunity.

So on the day when recession is the headline the MSM grab this and create more for the masses.

Who is really driving this agenda as I feel trapped.

86657 ▶▶ Julian, replying to hotrod, #735 of 1392 🔗

The data is here, though today so far they seem to have updated the cases number but not the total tests number. If you take the two together you can see the % positive which is the only figure that matters if you’re trying to monitor a trend over time


87078 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #736 of 1392 🔗

According to this, today’s positive tests numbered 1,009.


Somewhat nitpicky! Must be the new R-number equivalent.

86654 Edna, replying to Edna, 9, #737 of 1392 🔗

Just read SmileyMiley’s post about a visit to the dentist and thought I’d describe mine.

I use a private dentist and was supposed to have had a check-up in April, but that was, of course, cancelled. They later rang to offer an appointment in June, but said I would have to wear a face-covering. When I said couldn’t, they suggested I make an appointment for August “when we should be back to normal”!! So that’s what I did.

I rang them a couple of weeks ago to check on the face mask situation and was told I’d have to wear one. I said I was exempt so the receptionist then said she’d have to speak to the dentist and they’d get back to me. The dentist rang and asked about my being exempt. I was very polite and said I wasn’t going to explain but that if it was going to cause a problem, I’d cancel the appointment as I didn’t want to make a fuss.

Dentist said it wasn’t a problem and I would have to stay in my car when I arrived and they would ring when I could go in. I would have to go in through the patio doors (the dentists is in a house, luckily my dentist is on the ground floor!). So that’s what happened and there was no hand gel, no temperature-taking and both the dentist and the nurse were very friendly. They both wore masks and gloves. Dentist used a face-shield whilst checking my teeth but then took it off and chatted to me. The only thing I had to do was rinse with a foul tasting mouth wash, no idea why! I then left through the patio doors 🙂

Much better experience than I feared.

87075 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, 1, #738 of 1392 🔗

And very good to know, thanks!

86659 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 17, #739 of 1392 🔗

Noticed my water pressure had dropped dramatically. Phoned the water comppany. Apparently, a bunch of yobs have acquired a key and have been going around the area turning on the hydrants.

The Police said they can’t do anything about it.

WTF?!! So they can answer lockdown snitchers but can’t help to prevent a real potential health crisis.

Welcome to the new abnormal!

86667 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #740 of 1392 🔗

It’s called ‘anarcho-tyranny’.

86670 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #741 of 1392 🔗

Oh yeah, no one available for burglaries, car theft, etc. Just the same as they are right on it’ for thought crime on social media but cannot come out to any real crime.

86928 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #742 of 1392 🔗

Not surprised. Its like with Mr Bart’s allotment which has been broken into, called the police but they said the same thing – can’t do anything about it.

Their priorities have always been misplaced sadly.

87295 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Bart Simpson, #743 of 1392 🔗

Surely they’ll come if you use the age-old “If you can’t come I’ll start disciplining them myself – now what weapon shall I use…”

86663 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 13, #744 of 1392 🔗

Swedish bedwetters, shocked and angry that Tegnell’s reasonable approach worked and is paying off now, demand that the now obviously so futile and disastrous foreign bedwetting approaches, incl. the useless masks, are introduced as a precaution there ASAP.

You cannot make this up!
Lord, please give me, and Tegnell, strength.


86683 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #745 of 1392 🔗

Fears of a resurgence. What do these loonies think will cause this resurgence, given they had no real lockdown?

86728 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #746 of 1392 🔗

“Some scientists and academics say the improving situation has created a window of opportunity to correct the failings of the past.”

“Failings of the past”, FFS! What bloody failings? Sweden got it almost spot on – just the care homes being an issue.

86831 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tenchy, #747 of 1392 🔗

Apart from the care home mistake – don’t change ANYTHING!

86771 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jay Berger, #748 of 1392 🔗

Time will tell.

86664 Laura Suckling, 5, #749 of 1392 🔗

Just came back from visit to local shop where usually no one is wearing masks. Two other customers both masked. One lady about my age (58) and one young guy probably 15. No horrible looks or comments but sad. I hope they are just doing the accepted thing and not zealots.

86668 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #750 of 1392 🔗

Just stating the bleeding obvious here but please share if you can to get the message across to the doomers…

86686 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown Truth, #751 of 1392 🔗

Nice. Ideally you’d want one showing trend of cases as a % of tests done.

86826 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Julian, 1, #752 of 1392 🔗

I’ve done that elsewhere but this is for the person on the street ideally. Cases as a % is going into complicated territory.Whereas this is just simply showing that a rise in cases isn’t showing a rise in any of the “nasty” stuff.

86983 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, #753 of 1392 🔗


86676 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Sam Vimes, #755 of 1392 🔗

Flipping hell! Must be a lovely atmosphere.

86682 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Laura Suckling, 3, #756 of 1392 🔗

I know we talk about sheep, but this is a cattle market!

86981 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #757 of 1392 🔗

Great minds …..!

86992 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, #758 of 1392 🔗

That’s an honour, Sir.

86684 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #759 of 1392 🔗

That is sad as…..no way will I ever go to an event like that.

86691 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #760 of 1392 🔗

I honestly don’t think I will be going to another gig ever again. Disgrace

86723 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #761 of 1392 🔗

Hahahahhaha. The country is full of wankers.

86814 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sam Vimes, #762 of 1392 🔗

Seems incredible it’s not a very well done hoax….

86828 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #763 of 1392 🔗

… just show some respect m8, mouthing off like an idiot…I have two friends who died, and I couldn’t even go to their funerals or vist them in hospital…just consider yourself lucky… people have died and far more than what is shown in the official statistics

Amazing- someone mentions the rarity of dying of this disease and there’s always some obnoxious loudmouth throwing abuse at them and claiming (of course, because you can’t be righteous in modern western culture unless you are a victim, or at least connected to one) to be doing so out of supposedly justifiable outrage because they “knew someone who died”. As if that changes the numbers….

86843 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark, 3, #764 of 1392 🔗

The “I know somebody who has died thing” is the stock put down for any covid descent. However if you get a chance to ask who they knew who died it is almost always an old person who was nearly dead anyway or a bloke at work or somebody in the village or the next village or a woman in town. The covid dead take on an almost mythical position in people minds.

86931 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, #765 of 1392 🔗

Mad. No thanks.

86978 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #766 of 1392 🔗

Looks like a cattle market!

86681 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #767 of 1392 🔗

Did the brutal arrest of a young woman in Melbourne for not wearing a mask get any coverage in MSM? (I’m a bit cut off from News where I presently be.)

86824 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mark B, 2, #769 of 1392 🔗

Yes the YouTube comments on the original were depressing.

86875 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mark B, #770 of 1392 🔗

Thanks for that. So not a George Floyd moment in the world of MSM.

A friend of mine’s father was a policeman. He was long retired when I met him. I asked him had he ever been assaulted.

“Just the once,” he said, then he chuckled. “By a woman.”

“Did you take her to court?”


“Why not?”

“‘Cos I’d of looked daft. Me a big strapping chap and her a small woman.”

Who’d have thought an Aussie cop would take such a different approach?

86822 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Ned of the Hills, #771 of 1392 🔗

I saw in the comments early on a UK national asking for permission to use the footage but I don’t know what happened. Can’t remember which paper.

86687 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 12, #772 of 1392 🔗

Staggering testing results.

So we are testing between 160k and 200k daily and we are seeing ~1000 positive results.

That’s means between 159 and 199k are not positive.

But who on earth are all these people being tested?

Are they actually feeling unwell and going for tests?

And hence what is up with these people if they don’t have the virus but are still going to be tested?

86692 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to hotrod, 5, #773 of 1392 🔗

Saw this on Simon Dolan’s page.


“To put today’s 1,148 new cases into context. Just 96 of them (8%) were ill or a healthcare worker (pillar 1). The other 1,052 are not sick and have no clinical need for a test.”

I haven’t verified it however.

86993 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to A. Contrarian, #774 of 1392 🔗

He seems to be saying that 100% of those tested in Pillar 2 are asymptomatic, because if you weren’t you’d be in Pillar 1.

If this is the case then it’s fairly safe to assume that a maximum of 6.5% of those positive in Pillar 2 are actually positive. It’s actually going to be slightly lower than that but I haven’t worked it out yet.

86696 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to hotrod, 4, #775 of 1392 🔗

I also recall about 6 weeks ago the daily stats used to split out the positive ‘cases’ to adjust for those that had been tested more than once. It suddenly stopped at the point at which testing was ramped up. If what some have said – that the PCR test cannot distinguish between live and dead viral fragments – is it possible that the same worker tested weekly could be counted as 6 or so positive ‘cases’?

87303 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #776 of 1392 🔗

The test can find dead fragments, but not reliably . It will happen often enough to create a significant number of false positives now that prevalence is so low. But it’s still very unlikely (although possible) that a single person would test positive 6 weeks in a row.

86699 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to hotrod, #777 of 1392 🔗

They’re going door to door in places

86707 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #778 of 1392 🔗

Does the public have to re-learn the basic phrase “F.Off”?

86733 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Lockdown Truth, #779 of 1392 🔗


86974 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 1, #780 of 1392 🔗

Because the pillar 2 tracers, who’ve cost the taxpayer millions, have only been managing to contact about one person per month.

86743 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #781 of 1392 🔗

Best of luck with that if they knock on my door.

86887 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #782 of 1392 🔗

There is no legal obligation to answer or let testers in, is there?

86975 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #783 of 1392 🔗

Possibly – 1984 Act seems to have it all covered.

86768 ▶▶ Ajb, replying to hotrod, 1, #784 of 1392 🔗

Professional footballers, club staff etc. and presumably other sports people have to be tested once or twice a week to be allowed to play, whether they want to or not.

86886 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 1, #785 of 1392 🔗

Can’t understand why people do not seem to have understood that getting tested (unless you’re seriously ill) merely leads to your area being locked down…

86898 ▶▶ davews, replying to hotrod, 1, #786 of 1392 🔗

Just back from an outside chat with a group of friends. One of them is involved in the film crew industry. To safeguard the stars in the set (paid many thousands a day) all the members of the crew (a main and a back up one) are CV tested every single day. Not sure how many are in the crew, but if this pattern is repeated all over the country it will account for a lot of those 160k tests. If one person in the active crew tests positive that crew has to isolate and the back up crew takes over. No one has tested positive yet…
When talking about the test he had 100% confidence that a positive result was indeed positive for infection.

When we got talking about masks (film crew chap has to wear them all the time) my other friend produced his exemption halyard from his bag, a 100% sceptic.

86690 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 8, #787 of 1392 🔗


Howard Steen on Twitter.”@carlheneghan. The use of PCR testing to count ‘cases’ is a major scandal. These tests are not designed as diagnostic tests. They cannot confirm an active infection. See expert witness testimony to this fact from the German Corona Committee evidence gathering. https://t.co/dr3CPBljm9”/Twitter

Well worth a listen. It has English subtitles.

86695 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 1, #788 of 1392 🔗

Yes – it’s been flagged up already – but worth a reminder for anyone who wants to get a grip on the fiction that is ‘testing’ and ‘cases’.

86716 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to RickH, #789 of 1392 🔗

Sorry, must have missed it!

86736 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Margaret, 1, #790 of 1392 🔗

Now blocked by twitter!!

86820 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Margaret, 2, #791 of 1392 🔗

They’re only doing it so they can create their increased “cases” narrative. No other reason. It suits them.

86693 court, replying to court, 6, #792 of 1392 🔗

Everyone seen this? I had to go to the St John Ambulance website to check its authenticity!

86694 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to court, 4, #793 of 1392 🔗

Insane isn’t it

86697 ▶▶ RickH, replying to court, 4, #794 of 1392 🔗

Yes – it would have been a spoof this time last year.

86702 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to court, 10, #795 of 1392 🔗

So are they deliberately saying “obstruct the airways”?

86704 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 4, #796 of 1392 🔗


86708 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, 3, #797 of 1392 🔗

Sometimes one sees shit and starts to wonder if they are an idiot or it really is the other side!

86754 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to IMoz, 3, #798 of 1392 🔗

In fact, why the towel? If they’re not breathing, how are they going to be spouting covid all over you?

86760 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #799 of 1392 🔗

Maybe it’s symbolic for “throwing in the towel” on this one?

87275 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, #800 of 1392 🔗

In fact where’s the towel coming from?

86853 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to IMoz, 1, #801 of 1392 🔗

Like the Ozzie Victoria police force choking out SWF in the road?

86703 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to court, 11, #802 of 1392 🔗

This advice cannot stand. It’s madness.

86709 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to court, 3, #803 of 1392 🔗

So that’ll add another few lives to the collateral damage…

86732 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #804 of 1392 🔗

Is there a doctor in the house who can offer a professional view?

86750 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Telpin, 6, #805 of 1392 🔗

not a doctor but CPR trained (not current though—back in my “youth” I trained as a rescue diver) but when we where trained it was always ABC (Airways–Breathing–Circulation), they’ve now added virtue-signalling DE (Disability–Exposure) but that’s utterly irrelevant to saving someone’s life when you happen to even crack some ribs in the process…

86959 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to IMoz, #806 of 1392 🔗

I did a mountaineering-based First Aid course many years ago. Mountaineering in that the guys running it were climbers but they enacted loads of different scenarios including car crashes.

ABCDE actually had A twice. The first was A = Assess Danger to Oneself.

If it was okay to proceed then:

A – Airway,
B – Breathing,
C – Circulation,
D – Deformity,
E – Everything else

86812 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Telpin, 2, #807 of 1392 🔗

See my response above, I’m a nurse practitioner.

86740 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to court, 9, #808 of 1392 🔗

If I happen across somebody who may be a total stranger and who I believe I can save, I’ll take the risk using the traditional way, thanks all the same.

86957 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #809 of 1392 🔗

And what will happen to any first-aider who saves a life by using mouth-to-mouth?
Drummed out? Pilloried?Arrested?

86749 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to court, 2, #810 of 1392 🔗

Not just them but all 1st aid training providers been told to follow this protocol.

86752 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to court, 13, #811 of 1392 🔗

That. Is. Horrific.

Leave someone to die just in case you save a theoretical life in the future by taking the minuscule risk that they have covid, you might catch it and pass it on?

If people follow this advice they should be imprisoned for murder. And I bet they’re the ones currently shouting the loudest that people wearing masks are granny killers.

86816 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #812 of 1392 🔗

If the first aide is also a registered healthcare professional then they have a duty to intervene to the limit of their knowledge. As all healthcare professionals have to have basic life support then they cannot walk away.

86961 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, #813 of 1392 🔗

NOT wearing. But point taken.

86765 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to court, 2, #814 of 1392 🔗

Maybe it would have been simpler to say if they need resuscitating, just let them die.

86790 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to court, 3, #815 of 1392 🔗

About 10,000 people in the country are “cases” about one in 6,700.

IF THEY HAVE IT and you catch it and you’re fit and under 50 you have a 99.9995% chance of surviving.

I’d let them die. It’s not worth the risk…

86811 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to court, 1, #816 of 1392 🔗

We’ve been told that CPR is not an aerosol producing procedure, however MTM rescue breathing is a definite no; if a person needs ventilation then we should use a bag, valve, mask. CPR is usually sufficient to oxygenate a casualty. Does this mean that a person who’s choking is not treated?

86848 ▶▶ watashi, replying to court, #817 of 1392 🔗

I find this very hard to believe. how can this be possible?

86883 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to court, 1, #818 of 1392 🔗

When they say ‘to the tempo of ‘Staying alive’ do they mean to imagine you are repeatedly saying those words, or do they mean to the tempo of the BeeGees song of the same name?!

86969 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to court, 3, #819 of 1392 🔗

I sent this to my son, who noted that if you don’t have a towel handy, it would be good to use a pillow …..

87274 ▶▶ Basics, replying to court, #820 of 1392 🔗

Have shared with nhs staff. No reply yet. They are busy.

87320 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to court, #821 of 1392 🔗

Nice! Now we must let healthy people die and wait for an ambulance that might only arrive in hours……

86705 PD, replying to PD, 14, #822 of 1392 🔗

“There are plenty of people who think this Government, indeed almost any government, is hell-bent on a systematic plan to destroy individual liberty, force people to be vaccinated, inject them with chips, monitor social media accounts, use algorithms as a mechanism of control and to do it all with the cynical efficiency of a Bond villain.
Others think governments are exercises in accidental chaos, masked by spin, staggering from one crisis to another, fuelled by individual self-interest, opportunism and chronic disorganization.”

The optimist in me would like to agree with you Toby, but it seems there are many (especially left leaning) governments and devolved administrations who are hell bent on snookering the private sector in the name of ‘keeping the public safe’ from Covid.
We know through yours and many others tireless research that Covid is nowhere neaar as dangerous as has been portrayed and that the mortality and infection rates don’t justify the severely restrictive reactions. Particularly in light of knowing who is most at risk and how best to protect them.

I sense that ‘the long march through the institutions’ has left us vulnerable to a Marxist coup. All our public bodies are staffed by those of a left wing persuasion and they uniformly believe that lockdown is the correct strategy.

Tedros Adhanom at the WHO is a Marxist, he therefore has no desire to see private sector businesses return to old normal.

Another worry is how many of those occupying seats at the top table of this crisis have been sponsored by the Gates Foundation. WHO, GAVI, MIT’s quantum dot dye research, Ferguson at Imperial, The BBC, The (fiercely independent) Guardian.

The lack of scrutiny from media platforms such as the BBC is understandable, but the Guardian have barely uttered a peep of dissent against the man they oathed nly six moths ago. Most troubling though is the restriction of any medical narrative that runs counter to the views of the WHO which are eagerly taken by the giant tech platforms. I am concered that their modus operandi has shifted from one of organically sharing the ideas of their subscribers to one of pushing woke narratives onto all.

The fact that the World Economic Forum have already coined a phrase for this era as ‘The Great Reset’ gives it all an air of a fait accompli. It looks almost certain that we are all going to be substantially poorer, we are all going to be riding bikes more often and jet travel will again be the preserve of Alan Whicker, Joan Collins and Led Zeppelin.

I know this may seem like an unhinged rant, but I feel uneasy and detect an undercurrent of subterfuge.

86748 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to PD, 2, #823 of 1392 🔗

That’s how I feel.

Toby is slowly awakening to it but not quite at the tipping point yet.

86755 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #824 of 1392 🔗

Toby is wide awake but plays devil’s advocate for those just coming out their coma – and his bosses at the Telegraph.

87054 ▶▶ Carlo, replying to PD, 1, #825 of 1392 🔗

Thats how I feel.

86706 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #826 of 1392 🔗

BIG NEWS on death rates!

86724 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #827 of 1392 🔗

Posted the graph on my fb page and it vanished almost instantly. Can’t allow the truth on there!

Someone had noticed that any pro-meat posts were disappeared too! Plant-based diet is a Big Pharma/Big Agri dream – heavily sponsored by Uncle Bill.

86734 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #828 of 1392 🔗

I don’t use Facebook. I started a new Twitter account yesterday with a new angle. Tagged one tweet to Donald Trump and promptly got restricted. But I ca’t un-restrict my account without a second mobile number. Who has two phones? So it’s censorship by any other name.

86946 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #829 of 1392 🔗

I don’t do twitter.

I didn’t do facebook homepage stuff previously. Other than a being in a couple of really good forums, I steer well clear of fb.

Nowadays, I try to post one lockdown sceptic picture or headline with link per day. I have at least a couple of loyal followers who pass them on.

86746 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #830 of 1392 🔗

Son is asking:

Since he’s started posting plenty of sceptic stuff on Facebook on the whole covid-19, Bill gates, Zuckerberg, censorship, chemtrails, 5G, NWO, vaccines, world economic forum, and so on that is discussed in depth on here he’s noticed his samsung phone lights up whenever he starts talking to people then shuts down when he goes quiet.

He’s swears someone is listening in to these sceptic conversations – he’s in Poland at the moment.

He’s also noticed what I told him a few years ago – example, him, his girlfriend’s family are going camping at the weekend. he mentioned “sleeping bags” and 10 ins later adverts and pop-ups about them started appearing on his phone.

Warned him but I was a nutter. Now he says he’s getting cheap Huawei phone.

Happening to anyone else?

86762 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #831 of 1392 🔗

I have heard this is a thing. I haven’t seen it at work myself. I think this does happen and its not unusual. No idea what apps are involved with it. I know virtually nothing about smart phones. Especially Android ones.

86770 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Awkward Git, #832 of 1392 🔗

I forget the details now but there were a couple of times I thought something like that had happened to me. I’ll pay more attention now.

86947 ▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Awkward Git, #833 of 1392 🔗

Regular occurrence. We play a game as a family. We repeatedly mention some object, eg fridge freezer, and lo and behold, pop ups appear, usually on my wife’s phone, for some strange reason.

86952 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, #834 of 1392 🔗

Wow! I don’t get any ads on my phone, I’m glad to say.

87837 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #835 of 1392 🔗

He’ll get ads for things made in China instead …

86729 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #836 of 1392 🔗

Kin ell, that’s some difference!!

86735 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #837 of 1392 🔗

12% down!

86747 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #838 of 1392 🔗

This is interesting, nearly all the recent deaths have been post-28 days so have been excluded, there is basically no one dying any more.

86774 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #839 of 1392 🔗

Yes. Mind you. Why would they do this now?
Unless they knew they were about to be exposed.
They’ll keep pushing the cases but it’s a joke.

OR they want it as low as possible so the October spike will look more scary…

86844 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #840 of 1392 🔗

the latter sounds most likely

86874 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #841 of 1392 🔗

Might be a combination of the two – isn’t Simon Dolan’s case due to heard in mid-Sept?

86789 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to A. Contrarian, #842 of 1392 🔗

Is the revised data, with retrospective adjustments, available anywhere? I can’t find it on the govt websites.

86791 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tenchy, #843 of 1392 🔗

link in my post above but doesn’t have full data.

86855 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Tenchy, #844 of 1392 🔗
86966 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DressageRider, #845 of 1392 🔗
86955 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #846 of 1392 🔗

The actual NHS stats confirm that.

86862 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #847 of 1392 🔗

So it further emphasises we should have been back to normal much much sooner. The level of managability even if you believe the narrative was April.

86730 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #848 of 1392 🔗

Off topic.

Why would the UK Government take a £400 000 000 million stake in this bankrupt satellite company?:


86738 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #850 of 1392 🔗

Because they are, in effect, unaccountable to anyone or anything, and they have a bottomless pit of money. Oh, and they are institutionally vacuous.

86739 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #851 of 1392 🔗

God alone knows, but is it like the ferry company that didn’t have any ferries?

86744 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DressageRider, 3, #852 of 1392 🔗

Or any experience of operating ferries.

86753 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Dave #KBF, #853 of 1392 🔗

yes, forgot that bit!

86938 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DressageRider, #854 of 1392 🔗

Ayanda Capital and unusable face masks.

87265 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DressageRider, #855 of 1392 🔗

Remember the ferries!

86742 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Awkward Git, #856 of 1392 🔗

Internet delivery? Maybe they are thinking about sacking BT

86757 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #857 of 1392 🔗

Is Chris Grayling involved?

86759 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DressageRider, 1, #858 of 1392 🔗

Do not let him near anything, he will break it.

86783 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #859 of 1392 🔗

Definitely nothing to do with surveillance

86805 ▶▶ anon, replying to Awkward Git, #860 of 1392 🔗

because they’re really just a low level faction of a hidden supra-national cabal that really rules over us through death empires sorry corporations using phony debt instruments assigned from birth and they’re all fucking in on it?

I don’t know just thinking aloud there

87834 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to anon, #861 of 1392 🔗

Thanks Bill …

86859 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #862 of 1392 🔗

Because they bought into the hype that part of OneWeb can be repurposed for a GPS like service. To keep the Uk’s capability.

But that’s a very large deviation from the scope of the current satellites

86741 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 1, #863 of 1392 🔗

Throw Dan to the crocodiles.

86948 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, #864 of 1392 🔗

Pauvres bêtes!

86764 Steve Martindale, 2, #865 of 1392 🔗

Hello, poor old soul that I am it is hard to keep up in this fast changing world, I seem to recall there was some talk about a Covid conference at which Professor Sunetra Gupta was going talk, but I can’t now find any reference to it? Can anyone provide some info or a link? Thank you.

86767 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 12, #866 of 1392 🔗

Some American airlines are now mandating face masks for all passengers aged 2 (yes 2!) and over, with no exemptions for anyone with any health conditions. What is going on over there? They have gone crazier than we have…

86773 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #867 of 1392 🔗

That’s bonkers and they’re asking for trouble when something bad happens and they get sued.

86786 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #868 of 1392 🔗

Yes they’re absolute zealots by the look of things. Alaska Airlines and American have mandated them for everyone aged 2 and over, and Delta have stated publicly that anybody unable to wear one for medical reasons should ‘consider staying home’. As someone who works in the industry I find this absolutely terrible, it’ll only reduce global passenger numbers further.

86943 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #869 of 1392 🔗

Well looks like they’re eagerly committing corporate suicide. Not shedding any tears for them when they go bust.

86776 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 5, #870 of 1392 🔗

Two…holy crap, that’s insane

86807 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #871 of 1392 🔗

They’re batshit in (some parts of) America. The only places more batshit currently are Spain and Australia.

86809 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 4, #872 of 1392 🔗

(And probably New Zealand again)

86827 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Farinances, #873 of 1392 🔗

Worrying times when ‘the land of the free’ can stoop so low!

86933 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #874 of 1392 🔗

Land of the think-they’re-free!

86945 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #875 of 1392 🔗

No can do. Brain dead.

87826 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #876 of 1392 🔗

Most thinking Yanks haven’t been flying for years. They recognised Homeland Security for what it was on day 1.

86851 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #877 of 1392 🔗

There is a school of thought that those countries “closest” to the U.S will be acting in similar ways. For an event with such deep global social and economic significance, it must be a given that intelligence services are heavily involved and the U.S, UK, Canada New Zealand and Australia are part of the Five Eyes intelligence alliance.

(below is an excerpt from a post in Off Guardian):

The pandemic has some landmarks and signposts.

Bill Gates- America.

Tony Fauci- America.

Event 201- America.

Propaganda and all scripts for all countries taking part printed in – America.

Johns Hopkins University ( Rockerfeller and Gates sponsored)- America

All instructions ( self isolation / masks/vaccines) – America

86964 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Humanity First, 1, #878 of 1392 🔗

There’s plenty of trouble coming from Europe and GB – I don’t think it’s helpful to contribute in the ‘let’s blame America for everything’ song. Neil Ferguson is British as is the Behavioural Insights team – so too the BBC and Common Purpose, and the global centre of the ‘Climate Change’ agenda is here too. The three best sites I know of are also American. For example, this item on how China is using AI to manipulate public opinion, and anti-Trump hysteria.

86778 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 14, #879 of 1392 🔗

How about this as an example of the dystopian State in which we now live:

The Telegraph (paywall – non paywall material shown):


A man was fined £2,000 for buying a bottle of water after he visited a newsagent when he should have been self-isolating.

Chef Sanjeev Kumar, 31, had agreed to isolate for two weeks after arriving at Guernsey Airport from Southampton.

During the 10-minute walk from the airport to a hotel on Rue des Croise, where he had been working for the past two years, Mr Kumar stopped off at a shop to buy the drink.

However, the hotel’s housekeeper recognised him in the Forrest Stores newsagents and informed authorities. Police officers later found Mr Kumar in a chalet at the hotel, where he admitted he had been in the shop.

Judge Graeme McKerrell, at Guernsey Magistrates’ Court, ordered Mr Kumar to pay a fine of £2,000, saying a clear message needed to be sent that any breach of the regulations would not be tolerated….

Have a look at the comments (non paywall). When I last checked, every single one of them supported the victim.

86782 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tenchy, 8, #880 of 1392 🔗

How can we start a fundraiser. I’ll chip in. We’re all in it together. Fuck the authorities.

86944 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #881 of 1392 🔗

I’ll chip in too. Gladly.

86829 ▶▶ anon, replying to Tenchy, 4, #882 of 1392 🔗

I’m calling BS on this

media stories like this are to fan the (dying) fire

fear / anger = primary motivators..

86839 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 2, #883 of 1392 🔗

I thought you were allowed to get provisions on your way home, before starting the isolation period?

86865 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Tenchy, 3, #884 of 1392 🔗

The prosecutor said he should’ve used the public drinking fountain at the airport. His defence team should’ve been all over that suggestion! And the hotel housekeeper at the hotel he worked at grassed him up. Horrible rat. Fancy doing that do a colleague over something so utterly trivial. I hope he gets retribution- bide his time until the grass thinks all is forgotten….as long as it takes.

86958 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Tenchy, 2, #885 of 1392 🔗

Is the housekeeper descended from a WW2 collaborator?

87814 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DJ Dod, #886 of 1392 🔗


86779 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #887 of 1392 🔗

I’m sure it’s been done but does anyone know if anyone has debunked Wancock’s claim that 70% more shopkeepers die of Covid than the rest of the population? If so, can you point me towards it? Thanks

86795 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #888 of 1392 🔗

Sylvie is your gal. The calc was technically correct, but it related to just 107 deaths nationally.

86798 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, 10, #889 of 1392 🔗

Yep. I wrote some of this myself in a letter to my MP and I copied some of it from somebody on here, probably AG it was that good.

Here are the bones of it:
I was rather dismayed to see that the main tenant of your argument you used to support the compulsory wearing of face masks in all shops was based on the statistic that “ The death rate among shop assistants is 75% higher among men and 60% higher among women than in the general population.”

Allow me to enlighten you to how this statistic was produced.

*****this is the bit I copied*******

I have now had an opportunity to review the source of the statistics you quote. The data is wholly inadequate to justify a policy which, quite literally, changes the face of the people in whose interests you govern. The data is being used (I may say abused) to justify a policy decision that has already been taken.

The ONS study looked at deaths among men and women of working age (20-64 years old) up to 25 May. That does not equate to a death at work or a death caused by working conditions **.

The ‘excess death’ ratios you quote (75% for men and 60% for women) are a comparison with deaths among the whole population, most of whom were workers who were confined to their homes during the period under review or people who are not in employment. A comparison with all those who were out and about, working, would give radically different statistics.

The absolute numbers of deaths among workers in the ‘sales and retail assistants’ sector are small – 43 men and 64 women, among a total of 4,761 deaths in the ONS study. When compared with the other occupations in the survey, the deaths of both men and women in the sector appear to be not far off average, if I interpret the graphs in the report correctly.

In terms of deaths per 100,000, male sales and retail assistants came behind (for example) ‘bookkeepers, payroll managers and wages clerks’. Female sales and retail assistants came behind ‘National Government administrators’. Yet I hear no call for bookkeepers and administrators to be specially protected.

** The report says in its summary: “Our findings do not prove conclusively that the observed rates of death involving COVID-19 are necessarily caused by differences in occupational exposure.”

86803 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Two-Six, 1, #890 of 1392 🔗

Did you get a reply to that?

86847 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #891 of 1392 🔗

yer she said some old bolox about some old bolox

86867 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 3, #892 of 1392 🔗

Sorry that was a bit flippant. I can’t find her reply right now so I can’t type up what she said. I think I might have accidentally wiped my butt on it and flushed it down the bog. Perhaps not, I will have a proper look in a bit.

86906 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cicatriz, #893 of 1392 🔗

OK This is what she said in reply:

Dear Two-Six,
May I start by offering my sincere apologies for the absence of a reply to your later dated 12/05/20. Unfortunately, my office and I have no record of this letter. Post was redirected during the lockdown period (causing some delays), but should you wish to send them in, please do not hesitate to do so.
With regards to your most recent correspondence, the sources I had quoted were offered to the House of Commons by the Secretary of State, Matt Hancock, as I am sure you are aware. I am also aware, and indeed concerned, at the recent revelations over Public Health England’s calculation method for deaths. I welcome the Secretary of State’s instruction that this matter should be urgently reviewed and I hope more accurate figures will be forthcoming.
I continue to agree that the wearing of face masks is a necessary measure for us to take to help our public health and support those most vulnerable to infection from the virus as they come out of shielding from the start of August. Furthermore, the efficacy of its use in a public space is widely accepted and I believe that this is a policy which will help ensure that businesses can be placed on a sustainable footing by helping to reduce the virus’ general circulation.
You may be aware that there are exemptions for individuals with certain physical and mental health conditions and the non-wearing of a mask should not be challenged unless this is a reasonable last resort.
Whilst an extraordinary piece of legislation, the Coronavirus Act was passed with full scrutiny and due procedure and has measures which both Houses deemed adequate to ensure that it is not employed excessively. I believe that this remains a necessary piece of legislation to form our approach proportionate to the risks of the virus across a number of measures, including bringing NHS staff back from retirement and allowing the greater reallocation of manpower where necessary.
Parliament is able to hold the executive and other agencies fully to account about the use of powers and the Government has been transparent by the use of its powers throughout. This Act is also subject to a sunset clause and MPs will express their view to the legislation fully every six months.
Thank you for taking the time to write to me.

With best wishes


86976 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Two-Six, 4, #894 of 1392 🔗

Yeah, I stopped reading at “widely accepted.”

Another lying MP

86810 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Two-Six, #895 of 1392 🔗

Great thanks!

86871 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 1, #896 of 1392 🔗

Thank you for the compliment but that one wasn’t one of mine.

Someone may be out to get us both now.

87035 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Awkward Git, #897 of 1392 🔗


87033 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Two-Six, #898 of 1392 🔗

Happy for my reply to be treated as “so good it could have been from AG” – praise indeed 😊 .
And no, I never got a response from my MP – seemed to shut him up.
NB the data is now weeks out of date.

86880 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #899 of 1392 🔗

Basically trying to come to a conclusion to prove a point from a ridiculously small sample of data and whilst technically correct is very bad statistics.

86972 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to dpj, #900 of 1392 🔗

I think the sample was quite big. If you ask how many people work in shops and then say suppose we took a random sample that size what are the chances we would find the same results? The chance is very low because the sample is big. The number of dead people is small. But that isn’t the sample. So I think it was “statistically” significant if not actually very significant.

87038 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to guy153, #901 of 1392 🔗

But bookkeepers and Government administrators were at higher risk.
So the stats were convenient nonsense, really.

87300 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BTLnewbie, #902 of 1392 🔗

All it ever showed was correlation not causation. Bookkeepers? I suppose they’re better at assessing risk so that’s why they catch Covid a bit more 🙂

86801 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 33, #903 of 1392 🔗

Mega victory guys.

I’m currently listening to my Dad laying down the sceptic law on my aunty on the phone.

He is giving it good. This is awesome. The word is spreading!

86815 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Farinances, 4, #904 of 1392 🔗

Is she accepting it?
What actual facts are being discussed?
If she budges – please tell us what helped sway her.

86818 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Lockdown Truth, 23, #905 of 1392 🔗

I don’t know, I can’t hear her, only him.

Sounds promising though.

He’s gone from

a) Tests being crap
b) ‘Seek, and ye shall find’
c) A ‘spike’ = 14 cases
e) They won’t let anyone go on holiday cause they want people to spend here
f) Currently he’s talking about Rishi and the fact everyone thinks he’s a hero but he’s actually bankrupted us with Commie Lite™

86919 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Farinances, 2, #906 of 1392 🔗

Great stuff. I take it this is the auntie who wants to volunteer herself to vaccine trials along with uncle cock?

86923 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 1, #907 of 1392 🔗


86806 Bella, replying to Bella, 7, #908 of 1392 🔗

“Authorities have increased fines for repeated rule breaches as Melbourne endures a deadly virus second wave.” BBC report linked in Guy de la Bedoyere article. Note the adjective ‘deadly’. Fear, fear, fear

86813 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bella, 5, #909 of 1392 🔗

I’m pretty sure they would fail their journalism exams for being inaccurate with that word. Deadly implies death. Lots of death. Maybe they could get away with it because it’s technically deadly for *some people…. but not for 99% of people….

86821 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Farinances, 3, #910 of 1392 🔗

But in this case has there even been one death? If it is all false positives (as it most likely is) then the question doesn’t even arise.

86823 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #911 of 1392 🔗

Hey, yeah, has there been even one death?
Probably not. So they would definitely be failing then.

86968 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #912 of 1392 🔗

Probably a higher proportion of real positives in AU although it is still early days for them. But it’s very likely they will have an epidemic of SARS2 in the near future.

To put things in perspective Germany actually had drive thru PCR ready during the epidemic and it was peaking at about 20% positive per day (at which point false positives are not a big issue).

UK was so late the highest the ONS ever found was 0.34% when they started in April. And it’s now 0.05%.

86817 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Bella, 3, #913 of 1392 🔗

“second” wave lol

86833 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #914 of 1392 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53755067 on misinformation causing death.

86836 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to p02099003, 3, #915 of 1392 🔗

Part of the big misinformation propaganda campaign.

86924 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #916 of 1392 🔗

All produced by a single corporation – Beebskyteteevee – which employs only qualified reporters from the School of Non-Journalism, trained in ignoring the bleedin’ obvious.

86894 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to p02099003, 4, #917 of 1392 🔗

…recent polling in the United States showed that 28% of Americans believe that Bill Gates wants to use vaccines to implant microchips in people

The far-out theories are used to smear people like us. We may, in fact, be more aware of the concepts of immunology than Neil Ferguson ( not an exaggeration) but people like the BBC are able to tar us all with the same brush. Questioning the lockdown and masks etc. is seen as just as crazy as thinking that we are going to have microchips implanted in us. Lord Sumption and Michael Levitt are implicitly smeared as ‘conspiracy theorists’.

As far as I can tell, the thing about Bill Gates and microchips was something to do with putting RFID tags on syringes..? This may have been misinterpreted by excitable people as a plot to implant microchips into us. This misunderstanding could be corrected by simply stating the true facts, but mysteriously the ‘conspiracy theory’ is allowed to flourish without correction.

86835 Cheezilla, 8, #918 of 1392 🔗

Just back from Aldi weekly shop.
All shoppers masked – except me.
Doorman had mask pulled below nose and mouth.
3 out of the 4 staff on the shop floor weren’t wearing masks.
No spraying this week, thank goodness. Hope it was a bit of one-off zealotry!

86837 Will, 7, #919 of 1392 🔗

“And figures for deaths in England for the most recent week of data – 18 to 24 July – will drop by 75%, from 442 to 111.“

Is the worm finally starting to turn.

86846 annie, replying to annie, 12, #920 of 1392 🔗

Can’t read article because of paywall, but at least somebody seems to have noticed the hell our old people are going through:


Don’t kill granny – her care home will do it for you.

86863 ▶▶ Liam, replying to annie, 7, #921 of 1392 🔗

You can read any Telegraph panic porn article by hitting the Escape key twice as the page is loading.

86876 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to annie, 13, #922 of 1392 🔗

I’ve been making this point for several months. Old people in care homes have been deprived of contact with loving family, and with visiting entertainers and petting animals. Rather than comforting smiles, the staff present anonymous mask. It is all so demoralising that it must be causing early deaths.

86884 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to OKUK, 3, #923 of 1392 🔗

It must be

87034 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to OKUK, 2, #924 of 1392 🔗

While my grandmother was almost 101, she’d been in lockdown since the end of February and kept telling my mom she was ready to die. She went downhill fast as life had become so miserable — and she was in a private, high-end retirement home. If the actual virus isn’t killing old folks, the reaction to it most definitely is based on my own family’s experience.

86921 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 6, #925 of 1392 🔗

Heartbreaking article!

Helen Wildbore, the director of the Relatives and Residents Association, suggested attempts to protect the vulnerable sometimes forgot about their social needs.
She told MPs: “Sadly, many of the callers to our helpline have been telling us that the current situation in care homes is now very much like a prison, with such restricted visiting, residents unable to leave the grounds of the home, and limited interactions with other residents and staff.”

So cruel!

86941 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #926 of 1392 🔗

Cruel like not allowing even closest family to be with a dying person in hospital.
Cruel like keeping sorrowing friends and relatives away from the funeral.
Cruel like killing cancer patients by malign neglect.
Cruel like hiding from all patients behind an online barrier.
Cruel like the foul, beastly, sodding NHS, god of the zombies.

86962 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to annie, 3, #927 of 1392 🔗

Yet again, something that should have been obvious to everybody right from the start.

86913 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #929 of 1392 🔗

So the difference it is more marked in June, July and August.
For example, under the old system, 2,086 deaths were reported in England. With the 28-day cutoff, this number is 574 – nearly a quarter of what was previously reported.
The last two days illustrate the difference this change makes. As opposed to 100 deaths reported on the 11th of August, 11 would now be reported, and today, whereas 72 were reported there are only 15 under the new system.

Thank goodness someone in the MSM is starting to reveal the truth!

87188 ▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #930 of 1392 🔗

The Resuscitation of the Five Thousand. A miracle! A miracle!

86860 Richard Huddlestone, 5, #931 of 1392 🔗

Just read the ridiculous safe sex advice from Terence Higgins Trust in the Telegraph & Argus, however the comments left are hilarious.

86877 Liam, replying to Liam, 15, #932 of 1392 🔗

I’m in a bit of a “can’t take this shit anymore” kind of mood tbh.

86878 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Liam, 6, #933 of 1392 🔗

I know how you feel.

86903 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Liam, 4, #934 of 1392 🔗

You can. I’ve been there many times over the last few months, and will no doubt be there again at some point, maybe soon, but it always passes, just not as quickly as I would like.

86935 ▶▶ annie, replying to Liam, 2, #935 of 1392 🔗

Try ‘won’t” instead of ‘can’t’.

86988 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Liam, 2, #936 of 1392 🔗

Chill out and have a wank, it’ll be fine*

*unless you are 75+ with co-morbidities

87116 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Liam, #937 of 1392 🔗

Stick your head out the window and scream it

86879 Liam, replying to Liam, 10, #938 of 1392 🔗

“But I don’t want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin.”

86881 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Liam, 4, #939 of 1392 🔗

Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

86882 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #940 of 1392 🔗

Yes. I claim the right to be unhappy.

86893 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Liam, 3, #941 of 1392 🔗

You have that. Currently in spades.

86939 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to matt, 3, #942 of 1392 🔗

Not according to the rainbows in the windows around here. The instructions include, “Be Happy”, “Be Kind”

86979 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Liam, 4, #943 of 1392 🔗

Drink. Gerls. Feck. Arrse!

86888 Cambridge N, replying to Cambridge N, 9, #944 of 1392 🔗

Went shopping in Tesco’s. Bloke behind me at the checkout staggering with big basket. I looked round for a ‘Next customer’ thingamajig so he could unload all his stuff onto the conveyor belt without it getting mixed up with mine.

Guess what? They’ve taken them all away because of carownervirus.

‘Following the science’, eh.

86895 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Cambridge N, 17, #945 of 1392 🔗

My neighbour has just bought two Audi Q4s, a Ford Kuga, three Suzuki Vitaras, five Range Rover Evoques, and a Robin Reliant van.

Yes, it’s as we feared, he has carownervirus .

86934 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #946 of 1392 🔗

Like it! Like it!

86965 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to annie, 5, #947 of 1392 🔗

John Travolta thought he had it.

But it was only a Saturday night fever.

86900 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #948 of 1392 🔗

If you’d time to get your shopping confused, so they had to be sorted through the till – and if a succession of people did that – I bet the separators would magically reappear.

86907 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cambridge N, 1, #949 of 1392 🔗

Where have you been, they have been gone for weeks now! only one customer allowed per moving belt thingie.

86909 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DressageRider, 2, #950 of 1392 🔗

Aldi had loads, as normal.

86917 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to DressageRider, #951 of 1392 🔗

Not shopping in Tescos ;-).

87628 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DressageRider, #952 of 1392 🔗

Our local Waitrose has loads too.

86892 Humanity First, 1, #953 of 1392 🔗

Looks like a lot more people have bought into the WEF-sponsored great “Reset” of global societies (unless it was already in the works) … is it too cynical to think the focus on “mental health” is the gateway for big Pharma to invent and sell more addictive and mind-altering drugs to greater numbers of people?

(Apologies if link has been posted previously)


86896 Liam, replying to Liam, 9, #954 of 1392 🔗

I’m pretty drunk so please indulge me in the Brave New World quotes. If you haven’t read it, do.

“Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth.”

86899 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Liam, 6, #955 of 1392 🔗

And “One believes things because one has been conditioned to believe them.”

86905 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Liam, 1, #956 of 1392 🔗

I think that’s inscribed on the wall of the BBC TV centre, next to a statue of Huxley who also advocated Big Pharmacy developing a drug, soma, to induce happiness in the population at large. But I might be wrong… 🙂

86910 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to OKUK, #957 of 1392 🔗

You might be thinking of Orwell? Apologies if I’ve missed any nuance I’m a bit pissed.

86915 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Liam, 2, #958 of 1392 🔗

‘The Orwell quote outside New Broadcasting House, reads: “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” ‘

86918 ▶▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Cambridge N, 4, #959 of 1392 🔗

Quite near the statue of Prospero and Ariel by Eric Gill. A man who had sex with his sisters, daughters, and his dog. I’m not making this up. Defund the BBC.

86927 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Liam, 2, #960 of 1392 🔗

Yes, but is the statue any good?

86929 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to matt, #961 of 1392 🔗


86937 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to matt, 3, #962 of 1392 🔗

Eric Gill’s work is of surpassing beauty. He’s an extreme case of needing to acknowledge that humanity is capable of glorious achievements and also deeply flawed.

86940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Rosie, 1, #963 of 1392 🔗

Tell that to the BLM crew.

86950 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Rosie, #964 of 1392 🔗

It’s the BBC hypocrisy, not the statue that is the problem.

86977 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to OKUK, #965 of 1392 🔗

🙂 Understood, the topic happens to be one that interests me.

86982 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Rosie, -1, #966 of 1392 🔗

Find me a person that didn’t like Jim’ll Fix It as a child, I’ll find you a liar.

87129 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Rosie, 1, #967 of 1392 🔗

So the morals of the artist have no bearing on the beauty and quality of the art? How interesting. If only we could find other such examples of possibly odious human beings who created things that could nonetheless enrich the world around them.

87187 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, #968 of 1392 🔗

No, they don’t. None whatsoever.
You can judge the morals of the artist as much as you like, but they are totally irrelevant to the artistic quality of his or her work.

87095 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Liam, #969 of 1392 🔗

Oh FFS! What illogic.

86942 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Liam, 3, #970 of 1392 🔗

It was a bit of a leg pull. The BBC have cheek in abundance putting up a statue to Orwell. Orwell hated the BBC and thought of it as an organisation dedicated to spreading misinformation e.g. about empire, class and the Soviet ally. He drew on his BBC experience in writing 1984 -Room 101 was a BBC reference.

86949 ▶▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to OKUK, #971 of 1392 🔗

Reread it this week.

86960 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Liam, 1, #972 of 1392 🔗

‘The Ministry of Truth’.

86911 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Liam, 2, #973 of 1392 🔗

Drunk is OK, sometimes it is needed in the current climate.

87258 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Liam, #974 of 1392 🔗

Are quotes from “Brave New World” apt? Surely quotes from “Not So Brave New World” would be more apt. But then I admit it hasn’t been written yet.

86901 Nicky, replying to Nicky, 4, #975 of 1392 🔗

Good to share this onwards – a powerful message to those mask zealots out there https://twitter.com/BritainFree/status/1293580862118862850?s=20

87317 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nicky, #976 of 1392 🔗

Great tweet. Copied a section below, so powerful.


Why should I prove it [Exempt]? Why is your safety my responsibility? Why should I trade my mental health for your irrational fear? A fear perpetuated by the media, medical community and government? Make no mistake, anti maskers are not simpletons set to destroy you. They understand the numbers and the bigger picture and have conviction enough to stand up knowing they will be punished by way of law and now society. Why don’t you spend 10 minutes and engage with someone who won’t wear a mask? Ask them, say you want to understand and you may learn something.

Many of us don’t agree with lockdown either an will choose to fight against it. Don’t ask me how I feel saying this to someone who has lost a person to Covid, it is a tragedy, we all know that. The question, however, is uneducated and designed to manipulate. I will ask you what you will say to the children who watched their mother beaten and abused for months and finally killed because of the lockdown.

What will you say about the rise of child abuse during lockdown? Elderly people actually starving to death too afraid of going out? The cancer going undiagnosed? The deaths of those who sought to protect the NHS because they didn’t want to bother them and died as a result? The rise in suicides? What do you say to their families?


86908 quodcumque, replying to quodcumque, 9, #977 of 1392 🔗

Hello. I grumbled here a few days ago about being asked to wear a mask in church. For some reason, I find the attempt to mandate how people dress during a religious service especially pernicious. If anybody is interested, I arrived half an hour early with the intention of slipping quietly into a pew unchallenged. Surprisingly, nearly half the available seats were already occupied (every other row was roped off), and by people who’d clearly had the same idea as me. Out of thirty or forty, there were four in masks. Things evened out eventually so about half were masked but many who were initially masked removed theirs.

Less positively, at a Co-op petrol station this evening I was asked if I had a mask. I said I was exempt and was asked if I had a card. I said no and was told I should. The manager interposed at this point and said I didn’t need one, as I simultaneously said the same thing. She was embarrassed and apologetic and said she was still getting used to the rules, and of course I told her it didn’t matter. I suppose the good thing is she won’t challenge anyone else. The worrying thing is the thought that after several weeks I must have been the first person she was in a position to challenge. Are these things now basically universal in some parts of the country? Apart from shopping among lots of drunk people on a Saturday night, I haven’t seen anyone without, but then I’ve hardly been in a shop.

87009 ▶▶ Basics, replying to quodcumque, 4, #978 of 1392 🔗

I am interested. You have given an account of how a part of our traditional life has been altered. I feel it is important to share and record these events. Thank you.

86912 Mike Collins, 31, #979 of 1392 🔗

Excellent FB post from Wythenshawe, a large housing estate in Manchester. I can’t help but think that there are lockdownsceptics everywhere….

With highs of 33° expected AGAIN today, it’s time to ask “could the government have done more?” Downing Street knew about this heatwave weeks ago and have done nothing. Shipments of 400,000 pairs of Speedos and 500,000 bikinis, sun cream and Cornettos have reportedly been sent back as unsafe after media claims the shipment was quarantined a month ago and Boris did nothing.
Karen from civic said, “We just don’t know if it’s safe to go outside and sunbathe because we can’t function or think for ourselves. Boris hasn’t told us either way and all my obese kids need ice cream and sweets, the Hubby can’t get out to rob anyone so we’re out of lager and weed, I blame the government entirely”
Meanwhile, anti- heat protesters dressed in thick jumpers chanting “cold lives matter” have marched on London, Big Ben has been removed and a giant Mint Feast put in its place by protesters.
The BBC reported earlier, ‘clearly the sun has come out and Downing street have done nothing to prevent it.’
A second heat Wave in wythenshawe expected to hit the UK in 4 weeks time .

86932 Dave #KBF, 3, #980 of 1392 🔗

Vernon Coleman is on form this evening:


86951 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 6, #981 of 1392 🔗

UK Plunges into Recession
Heckuva job, Boris!

86998 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to richard riewer, 2, #982 of 1392 🔗

But, how has this happened?

87186 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, #983 of 1392 🔗

A complete and utter surprise.

86967 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 14, #984 of 1392 🔗

A tiny success this evening, talking to a lady a few doors up the road. Usual stuff from me re scandal of false info from govt, then she said “what about protecting the vulnerable?”. Kicked that around, then I realised that she is probably a bit left-leaning (which is ok, before anyone jumps at me!), so I told her that millions are going to die in the developing world due to charities not being able to fund projects, eg polio and TV, due to the effects of lockdown. She said “oh, I hadn’t thought of it that way”. From little seeds…

86973 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Aremen, 4, #985 of 1392 🔗

Thanks for the info, always good to read of successes. I discovered a fellow realist at the allotment today, which was a great relief.

87185 ▶▶ annie, replying to Aremen, #986 of 1392 🔗

Little seeds, indeed. Let’s sow ore and more.
Seeds can take time to sprout. Don’t give up if there’s no immediate result.

86970 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 25, #987 of 1392 🔗

The ever reliable Professor Heneghan has posted on the dodgy death data. As an example: “As opposed to 100 deaths on the 11th of August, 11 would now be reported; today, whereas 72 were reported, only 15 will be reported under the new system.” This government and its so called advisors truly are a bunch of fucking cretins.

86984 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Hammer Onats, 19, #988 of 1392 🔗

I suspect Carl Heneghan and his team will now move to another part of the data series, and point out the obvious flaws. There is so much more to go on. The ‘genuine’ deaths from CV, stripping out those killed by the NHS through inappropriate use of intubation (medical negligence), care home scandal (genocide), recommending people stay at home when they should have gone to A&E (management failure), would take the number to less than 20k, and possibly closer to 15k.

86991 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 13, #989 of 1392 🔗

It is a scandal. And am so grateful to Carl Heneghan. He has a very good article in the Spectator about the uselessness of the PCR tests!!

I hope he can help get us out of this mess.

87047 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to wendy, 5, #990 of 1392 🔗

I emailed him today to implore him to carry on! Got a reply to say they’ll keep at it.

87127 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #991 of 1392 🔗

The brief blog post of a few days ago, pointing out the extraordinary difference in CFR between UK and… Er… anywhere else was the start of that, I think.

86971 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #992 of 1392 🔗

A friend sent me a lovely belated birthday present knowing that I love to read – a Waterstones gift card.

So I went online and ordered two books that I’ve long wanted that are now on paperback and opted for click and collect as I didn’t want to pay delivery charges. I chose Hatchard’s in Piccadilly as my collection point.

Went today to collect my order – staff didn’t bat an eyelid when I didn’t sanitise and wasn’t wearing a muzzle. Got my order with no problems at all.

Hatchard’s is my favourite place to browse books but now I just can’t be bothered.

Unsurprisingly the shop was so dead. I could fire an AK-47 in the shop and hit only the books and not a single human being.

Makes you wonder how they’re faring as even the Piccadilly flagship store further up was also dead.

86986 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #993 of 1392 🔗

If they have noticed a fall in numbers since masks they must speak out. I am sure people are avoiding shops etc because of the mask mandate it such a horrible experience to see people in masks and to wear one.

87005 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendy, 2, #994 of 1392 🔗

I think its been bad since they reopened on 15 June. A colleague went to a Waterstones branch that day and she was the only customer.

I suspect that started the fall and the mandatory muzzles has made it worse in terms of lack of customer footfall.

It will be interesting to hear if the staff have been feeding this back to head office.

87046 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #995 of 1392 🔗

Waterstones were one of the more zealous in terms of anti-covid measures, I seem to remember. They saw fit to stick primary school-style social distancing dots all over the pavements outside their shops in anticipation of the queueing masses who never materialised.

87213 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #996 of 1392 🔗

I did write to them early on to let them know that I was boycotting them and got fobbed off with a patronising reply that customers were expecting to feel safe and that Rishi Sunak had visited their store.

And yes the queueing masses never materialised, bet people just voted with their feet and wallets and went online instead. Failing that, went to Amazon instead.

Their CEO a few years’ ago was whining about Amazon’s dominance and with their zealous anti Covid measures driving away customers, they won’t be able to blame Amazon if they do go bust.

86985 Adam, replying to Adam, 11, #997 of 1392 🔗


Statistical quirk? Surely she means elementary A-level, or maybe first year undergraduate, mathematics? These epidemiologists need to be taken to a dark corner somewhere to have Bayes’ theorem and base rate fallacy beaten into them.

87000 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Adam, 1, #998 of 1392 🔗

Hopefully this type or article will help push back the fear levels. If only Boris could get a grip of all this and stop more damage being done.

87007 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to wendy, #999 of 1392 🔗

One can hope

87085 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Adam, 2, #1000 of 1392 🔗

Johnson is the epitome of a hope so vain it is in the area of total delusion.

Why would a lying, narcissistic wastrel hold out hope??????

He’s the f.ing author of this shambles.

86987 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 13, #1001 of 1392 🔗

There’s a weird thing going on where, I think, the (elected) government tries to argue it’s case with the broadcast media (well, BBC and Sky).
They don’t have to persuade us. We don’t have much choice. We either vote for the blue guardians or the red guardians. But they do have to persuade the media, otherwise they get given a hard time.
So, whereas any sensible person can see that the virus is not that unusual, and that the reaction to it is hysterical, nevertheless the government is involved in a delicate negotiation with the media not to be accused of being complacent, of relaxing too early, of killing people.

87003 ▶▶ wendy, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1002 of 1392 🔗

Oh if only Boris could stand up to this type of thing! The more he doesn’t the more damage and likely death he is allowing to happen. His government was elected not the media who are trying to bring him down.

87081 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to wendy, 3, #1003 of 1392 🔗

Oh perrrlease!!!

Poor little Boris??? Where have you been during the emetic rise of this narcissistic grandma-flogger?

87089 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to wendy, 3, #1004 of 1392 🔗

On the contrary the media as a whole have steadfastly swallowed the government line.They have been a disgrace and even now as the economic disaster begins to bite there is still little resistance.

87194 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1005 of 1392 🔗

They have been repeatedly bought by constant Covid advertising, they won’t bite the hand that feeds them.

87065 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 4, #1006 of 1392 🔗

The government have used the media throughout this crisis.There are documents to show they did this by using the media,to publish hard hitting stories,to scare people who were not sufficiently afraid.
A newly elected government with an 80 seat majority doesn’t need to worry about the media.

87071 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1007 of 1392 🔗

Its a strange idea that the government controls what the BBC chooses to broadcast.

I think a more likely scenario is that the public services disclose information e.g deaths from Covid, that suit the agenda of the BBC.

The government (our 120 elected ministers) are rather powerless against the public services and the BBC.

87079 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1008 of 1392 🔗

Get real. The political control of the BBC (inevitably giving support to the establishment) has grown and grown – both through appointment of political surrogates and through the threat over the license fee. That’s before we get to the dogging circle around Westminster and Whitenhall.

87080 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 3, #1009 of 1392 🔗

Mmmm the threat of defunding the BBC wouldn’t have had an impact.
Also the government was the biggest advertiser in the print media for 3 months from March/April.He who pays the piper.

87204 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1010 of 1392 🔗

They were following SAGE advice that people did not feel sufficiently affected to obey lockdown properly.

87076 ▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1011 of 1392 🔗

No. The captive media is a willing victim, caught in a net of mutual interest.

The result is that many of the public then become supplicants.

86989 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #1012 of 1392 🔗

Ooft the BBC is a thing of disgrace. The ten o’clock flag ship news giving the report of death count cooked books. Essentially reporting – However you count them people have died’ the new way to count the dead starts tomorrow. Rotten. But the soul of the BBC ghouls must not be up to much, with cumming boris hancock for leaders the glorious presenters, reporters and producers look absurd.

86997 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Basics, 12, #1013 of 1392 🔗

Elderly and sick people do die and died die every year, no one made this much fuss before. I am sick of this no one must die dead end we have get into.

87006 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendy, 5, #1014 of 1392 🔗

7000 thousand deaths lopped off the PHE figure. It requires a bit more journalism than simply suggesting folk have died. Who counted them badly, why, why change now and so on. The story is that the UK is the outlier by a large margin. Why has our establishment over-egged the pudding by so much? But our news at 10 sells a line using a personal tragic story of loss.

The producers aren’t even trying to get good. Its just lazy propaganda as we all know.

87157 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to wendy, 3, #1015 of 1392 🔗

In order for no one to die, no one can live. It is the law.

87247 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to OKUK, 1, #1016 of 1392 🔗

In a nutshell!

87073 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 3, #1017 of 1392 🔗

The BBC left decent News and Current Affairs reporting in a ditch way back in the fog of propaganda.

I tend not to listen, but caught an amazingly sanguine item about the barmy extension of mask-wearing in France. It was total shite in terms of examining the real issues from an evidenced standpoint.

87193 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 2, #1018 of 1392 🔗

Is anybody surprised by the number of people saying they have stopped watching the news because it’s so depressing/all propaganda?

87257 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, #1019 of 1392 🔗

I think the figures ‘watching’ whatever they are don’t discriminate between people who watch and believe and people who watch and study the depths they plumb. There must be many who are wide awake laughing at the whoppers.

By the way is it 4000 or 40,000 counter devices across the nations living rooms that the viewing figures are derived from. Like the detector vans, I have never seen a counting device. To get one may suggest a bias.

86996 wendy, replying to wendy, 13, #1020 of 1392 🔗

Article in the Telegraph about the sad situation in care homes.

For my family it is over 5 months and we are still not able to see my 87 year old father except through locked double glazed patio doors. Any slight improvement will be 30 minute distanced visits outside in a gazebo with Perspex between us. Though each family must choose one person only to be the regular visitor. So anyone else with have to continue the patio doors visiting. For us that includes Dads 83 year old sister. It is too sad and depressing. The more the fear goes on the more the human losses will be.

So much more could be done, testing of visitors, personal risk screening- most older people have been shielding and go no where so are no risk. So much unwillingness to try.

87004 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to wendy, 3, #1021 of 1392 🔗

Heartbroken for you.

87019 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to wendy, 2, #1022 of 1392 🔗

I observe the existence of Satan, but where is God?

87063 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ossettian, 2, #1023 of 1392 🔗

In UK Borisova, Satan is god.

87067 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ossettian, 4, #1024 of 1392 🔗

Watching us – from a distance!

87183 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ossettian, 1, #1025 of 1392 🔗

He’s there, suffering with the victims in the care homes. He will repay.

87020 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to wendy, 7, #1026 of 1392 🔗

That’s simply cruel and insane. Even here in Canada — the world’s #1 killer of people in LTC homes — my mom was able to see her mom in June. The rules were ridiculous and kept changing, but she was able to see her until she died a few weeks ago. She was almost 101, but she kept telling my mom she was ready to die as life was just not worth living any longer. She’d been in lockdown since the end of February with no end in sight. I’m so sad for you.

86999 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1027 of 1392 🔗

Bbc scotland news at 10.30pm “Almost all councils have now opened at least some of their schools”. The judge at Simon Dolans case was obviously mistaken ruling that the schools never were closed.

87062 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 7, #1028 of 1392 🔗

By and large, the judge was right – schools were kept open for the children of ‘essential workers’.

The interesting thing is that these children were below the radar, and never suffered from anti-social distancing measures.

… and nothing happened.

87191 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, #1029 of 1392 🔗

They were also supposed to be for vulnerable children but in 4 months they only catered for 10% of them.

87249 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #1030 of 1392 🔗

I disagree. If the schools are opening now. If you parent happened to be a freelance flower arranger and you showed up at school you were turned away. The school was closed for you.

87002 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 2, #1031 of 1392 🔗

This just reads as if it’s been written by Whitehall:


87064 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, 2, #1032 of 1392 🔗

It’s a load of bollox, whoever wrote it.

87010 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #1033 of 1392 🔗

New Zealanders are quiet, thoughtful and polite in contrast to their larrikin cousins across the Tasman however they do have a prissy irritating smugness as well which grates. The media in New Zealand are 100 % behind St Jacinda in her nutty efforts to eradicate this deadly virus.

Curiously the new community cluster have no contacts to any ” filthy foreigner ” who may have had the virus. this leaves two possibilties .

Either there are a lot more undetected cases in NZ


as some public health ” experts ” have said in NZ the virus came in on a frozen food container…cue calls for all imported products to be decontaminated ( I jest not )


87016 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Peter Thompson, 12, #1034 of 1392 🔗

Meet Jacinda Ardern. She’s like Trump, except instead of blusterous tweeting about closing off the borders, kicking out foreigners, and delaying elections, she actually does it. All to cheers and acclaim from our garbage news media”

87025 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1035 of 1392 🔗
87218 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #1036 of 1392 🔗

This morning they have dismissed frozen food and undetected virus circulating and now it is border failure


87057 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #1037 of 1392 🔗

Yes – I fear NZ is living a delusion.

87060 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #1038 of 1392 🔗

There were mutterings about it getting in via freight.
It would be interesting if they banned imports. They’d have to eat their sheep, which would be bad news for the plant-based diet lobby!

87181 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1039 of 1392 🔗

Freight or fright?

87156 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #1040 of 1392 🔗

I lived next door to Kiwis for several years. One thing they are not is quiet, Possibly quieter than Australians but that’s hardly much proof of anything.

87014 swedenborg, 8, #1041 of 1392 🔗

Successful Elimination of Covid-19 Transmission in New Zealand

This article published 7th Aug in the prestigious New Eng J Med hasn’t aged well

87018 Brian D, 9, #1042 of 1392 🔗

Perhaps a novel way of dealing with future lockdown type policy in a more enlightened world would be that any government which enacts policies to limit freedoms automatically sets a clock to the next election, say a halving of the time it was due already… that might make them think twice.

Or any rules created by circumnavigating usual scrutiny carries the automatic imposition that the minister enacting the legislation is obliged to resign from the cabinet within a year and not allowed to hold any cabinet post for the remainder of the term in office.

87022 helenf, replying to helenf, -5, #1043 of 1392 🔗

So Toby, are you anti the coronavaccine or not? Perhaps time to nail your colours to the mast. If you truly are a coronavirus sceptic, wouldn’t you say that a mass (mandatory?) vaccination programme is completely unnecessary, and perhaps could cause more harm than good?

87024 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to helenf, 6, #1044 of 1392 🔗

The website is called lockdown sceptics not corona vaccine sceptics and Toby can decide for himself later when any possible vaccine is produced..

87028 ▶▶▶ helenf, replying to Peter Thompson, -1, #1045 of 1392 🔗

Don’t you think the 2 are related?

87029 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to helenf, 2, #1046 of 1392 🔗

No .

87031 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #1047 of 1392 🔗

I’m sorry, but if you support mandatory vaccination as the way out of this invented crisis, you’re not one of the good guys.

87037 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Ossettian, 10, #1048 of 1392 🔗

That is called a straw man argument. I have not said I support mandatory vaccination programs. I think you are trolling.

87032 ▶▶▶▶▶ helenf, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #1049 of 1392 🔗

I didn’t say corona vaccine sceptic, I said coronavirus sceptic, and I think his posts more than support that contention. In that he knows as we do that this so called virus is not something to be hysterical about. So why would a vaccine be needed? Particularly a rushed one, that’s got to be much more about making money than saving lives.

87045 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ helenf, replying to helenf, 1, #1050 of 1392 🔗

Down vote? To what exactly?

87066 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to helenf, 4, #1051 of 1392 🔗

I think plenty of people would take a vaccine for the common cold if there was one. It’s quite possible to think it’s unnecessary AND think it would still be helpful given our present situation. I’m in that category. I may not get it myself, but I’d be happy if it shut people up and made it undeniable that this is no longer an “emergency.”

87111 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RyanM, #1052 of 1392 🔗

I’ve heard this sort of argument elsewhere. Reinforce the myths and they will go away?

I think not.

87150 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RyanM, 5, #1053 of 1392 🔗

Are you under the illusion that a Covid vaccine would make old people’s lungs more healthy? If not then do you dispute Darwinian evolutionary theory? To me it’s obvious that a successful vaccine for Covid will just create space for another pathogen which will lodge in old people’s diseased lungs.The newly evolved pathogen might be far more deadly than Covid.

87030 ▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Peter Thompson, #1054 of 1392 🔗

Well, yes, he can decide for himself.

And then he can tell us what he’s decided.

And, in turn, we can decide how to judge him.

87056 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ossettian, 7, #1055 of 1392 🔗

Why would anyone judge Toby- or anyone else here for that matter? What exactly are you and helenf playing at?

87058 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1056 of 1392 🔗

Must have wandered in off Twitter

87149 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #1057 of 1392 🔗

True, it’s for Toby to decide but this is definitely another fork in the road.

To approve of the vaccine is to go along with the illusion that we can prolong the lives of the old and vulnerable indefinitely. A vaccine that eliminates Covid will create space for new, potentially truly deadly, pathogens that could kill millions of healthy young people,

87178 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 1, #1058 of 1392 🔗

Just like it’s useless chasing urban foxes away, they will just be replaced by another, always been with us always will, at least the Covid turned out to be relatively tame.

87027 ▶▶ Mark, replying to helenf, 2, #1059 of 1392 🔗

If you truly are a coronavirus sceptic

Toby’s a lockdown sceptic, surely?

Not necessarily a coronavirus sceptic, so it’s not necessary that he should oppose a vaccination, mandatory or not. Though there are plenty of reasons to oppose a mass vaccination, and even more reasons to oppose a mandatory vaccination of any kind.

Be interesting to see if he’s willing to nail his colours to the mast on this one, though (can’t recall if he’s made any firm statement either way in the past).

87041 ▶▶▶ helenf, replying to Mark, #1060 of 1392 🔗

Yes it would be interesting. How would you justify “no” to masks and lockdowns but yes to vaccination, especially of people for whom the so-called virus posed little or no risk (which is over 99% of the population, so I believe).

87108 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to helenf, #1061 of 1392 🔗

Interesting. So do you think there’s something of a trap here for Toby?

87245 ▶▶▶▶▶ helenf, replying to Mark, 3, #1062 of 1392 🔗

My question isn’t intended to be a trap. A vaccine is coming, and already arrived in Russia. I think people need to start thinking about what side of the fence they sit on with regard to the coronavirus vaccine. There will be no long term data on its effectiveness or safety. It will be pushed on the population, the vast majority of whom have nothing at all to fear from Covid. And the drug companies will be exempt from any liability when we start to see some people having adverse effects. They stand to make billions while we get injected with some experimental shit, that will have god knows what short and long term effects, that we didn’t need in the first place. What’s wrong with promoting our own natural immunity? Oh yes, there’s no profit to be made in that, and we can’t be controlled by big brother if the solution is within us.

87256 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to helenf, #1063 of 1392 🔗

I’m not convinced a mandatory vaccine is a real threat for the reason that producing and rolling out sufficient to vaccinate those that want it could take years. But maybe I’m being naive.

87648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to helenf, #1064 of 1392 🔗

Willing to bet that the NHS will never fund a mass vaccination programme i.e.all ages, it will never pass their QALY test. Maybe an option for the oldies. And diabetics etc.

87051 ▶▶ RickH, replying to helenf, 11, #1065 of 1392 🔗

It’s a non-question.

The issues are about the need, efficacy and the safety of a vaccine.

  • On the need – that is highly questionable, since the virus is mild for most of the population. Targetted vaccination might be justified.
  • Efficacy is obviously important, given the variable record of ‘flu vaccines. If both need and efficacy are low – why waste resources (unless you’ve got shares in pharmaceutical firms). Efficacy will also take time to establish.
  • Safety is key. Anyone taking a dose of a new form of vaccine (which most won’t need) without adequate safeguards really does need their bumps felt – particularly when the industry has been absolved of responsibility for any failure. Safeguards are mainly about adequate Random Control testing which, done properly will take years (by definition) – which is a bit questionable on the basis of what is known about this virus and its disappearance (probably related to higher levels of immunity than predicted).

Briefly : this isn’t about being a ‘pro’or ‘anti’ ‘Vaxxer’ – it’s about reality. The nonsense about a useful rushed vaccine is totally detached from reality – and clearly driven by the generation of profit, aided and abetted by incompetent government decisions.

What is clear is that there is a sub-campaign of propaganda aimed at scaring people into endorsing the mistake of an illusory quick-fix.

It’s a totally stupid idea in this context.

87152 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 4, #1066 of 1392 🔗

Agreed – and actually I think there are very few people who want a vaccine for everything and very few who want no vaccines for anything.

There is however a huge amount of simplistic pro-vaccination propaganda in the MSM that no one is allowed to challenge. It’s not just in the news that we find this extreme bias – it’s also worked into soap dramas. In soapland no child has ever been damaged by a vaccine.

87179 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 4, #1067 of 1392 🔗

What people want is a return to normal. You can’t blame them for snatching at anything that appears to promise that.
You can blame them for being too cowardly to just return to the old normal anyway. If everybody did that, our Fascist oppressors could do nothing about it.
Whether or not you are anti-vax, the old normal is the only way out. Live it, as much as you possibly can. Here and now.

87184 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #1068 of 1392 🔗

Seems quite simple to me, produce a vaccine if you are able, you can take if you want, don’t Illegally mandate it for me, thanks.

87182 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 1, #1069 of 1392 🔗

Scared of the Covid or scared of getting lockdown by diktat again ?

87042 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1070 of 1392 🔗

The Soviet Union finally collapsed on itself. So did Nazi Germany. It can be done and it must be done. Any history buffs here who could explain how it happened?

87053 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to richard riewer, 7, #1071 of 1392 🔗

Their examples don’t really give us a lot of hope.Nazi Germany didn’t collapse on itself, it was conquered by an alliance of 3 major world powers after 6 years of war and millions of dead.The Soviet Union only collapsed after 70 years.Some people cite Chernobyl or the invasion of Afghanistan or the arms race but it was probably just the short comings of a Marxist command economy unable to sustain the Soviet empire.

87055 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #1072 of 1392 🔗

That is a reasonable summary – and the differences between the two instances also need to be noted.

The important thing is timescale – in neither case did it just ‘happen’ overnight.

87072 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 8, #1073 of 1392 🔗

I think our situation is similar to 1930s Germany or 1917 Russia.We are on the cusp of something evil and we don’t have a lot of time to stop it.

87107 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1074 of 1392 🔗

It’s a very loose parallel, even tho’ I agree with your use of the term ‘evil’, and the complicity of the population in elevating it to power.

87119 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1075 of 1392 🔗

Historical parallels are never exact but I think 1917 Russia is relevant…the Russian intellectuals tolerated the terrorists over many decades and eventually terror became the method of governance. The problem in Russia was not so much the malign and murderous Bolsheviks as the well meaning intellectuals with their search for perfect justice in preference to real incremental improvement.

87123 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, 9, #1076 of 1392 🔗

My point is that a fascist state is taking root before our eyes and we haven’t got much time to stop it.Think how many freedoms we have lost already and if we lose our freedom it will be a long time before we experience it again.

87096 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1077 of 1392 🔗

Whilst it is true that Germany was finally defeated by a powerful military coalition there is also plenty of evidense that the confident ideologues of 1940 no longer believed in the superiority of their ideology. Hess, Himmler, Goebbels and Goering all sought to deals with the allies as a whole orm

87109 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, 2, #1078 of 1392 🔗

Apart from Hess they all sought a deal in 1945 when even the most committed Nazi could see the war was lost.

87118 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1079 of 1392 🔗

Started earlier than 45. There were plots to kill Hitler don’t forget. It was Stalingrad that delivered the fatal blow to the belief system.

87177 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 3, #1080 of 1392 🔗

The plots never involved more than a brave minority. After the failure of the Stauffenberg plot, most of the leaders died, some of them horribly. Today, their memory is honoured.
Sometimes you have to try to fight utter evil, whatever the cost, simply because it’s the right thing to do. You may never see that evil defeated, but you were part of the struggle.

87167 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1081 of 1392 🔗

I was in Ukraine a few years before the collapse. Things around the tourist areas were modern and clean but 1km away the most modern piece of kit in the shop was an abacus, mind you the babushkas were wizards at using them klickety-klik.

87084 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1082 of 1392 🔗

They both stopped believing in their world view. The Germans were beaten at Stalingrad by a people they considered their inferiors. When the western democracies raced ahead in the creation of material prosperity, in the 50s and 60s that undermined the Communist worldview fatally given its Marxist ideological basis.

87100 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, 3, #1083 of 1392 🔗

The Germans weren’t beaten because they stopped believing in Nazism.They were eventually defeated because of the overwhelming superiority of the allied armies in men and material.Economonic might wins wars and sustains empires.

87114 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #1084 of 1392 🔗

The key was the tremendous sacrifices in people and places made by the USSR in resisting Hitler on the Eastern Front. I don’t think that we’ve got an equivalent ally!

87115 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1085 of 1392 🔗

I think it’s reasonable to say that the Japanese never abandoned their ideology and were defeated purely by force of arms. But that’s not true of the Germans. They did gradually abandon their world view. To take just one example, the rocket scientists at Peenemunde like Von Braun who had originally been enthusiastic servants of the Nazi cause by the of the war were debating whether they should align with the Soviets or the Americans. By the end of the war Goebbels was lamenting the failure of the Nazi to embrace class war. I could list thousands of examples of former zealots abandoning the central tenets of their ideology in Germany.

87121 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, 1, #1086 of 1392 🔗

Even Hitler felt the Germans didn’t deserve to continue as a people as the Russians had proven themselves the stronger race.They all still fought to the bitter end as Germany was reduced to a smouldering ruin.

87147 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1087 of 1392 🔗

Not true. They were enthusiastically surrendering in the West in the last few months often against explicit orders from central command,

87381 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, #1088 of 1392 🔗

That was because they didn’t want to fall into the hands of the Russians.My general point is correct.Germany was conquered from without by a coalition with overwhelming superiority,not through a collapse of morale

87587 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1089 of 1392 🔗

Possibly a boo boo, given how many Eisenhower killed in the camps.

87168 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1090 of 1392 🔗

They were beaten because they did not have a four engined bomber capable of flattening Britains manufacturing base.
Russia moved theirs beyond the Urals in that big was slave labour states can do and of course Germany had no way if reaching America.
The combined economies of the Allies were × 8 that of the Axis powers.

Also nazism is rubbish.

87586 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1091 of 1392 🔗


87124 ▶▶ matt, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1092 of 1392 🔗

The first took nearly 80 years, the second 12. These are not the case studies you are looking for.

87169 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, #1093 of 1392 🔗

Yugoslavia fell in on itself after the death of just one man, didn’t turn out well.

87044 Lockdown Truth, 2, #1094 of 1392 🔗

Can any of our Scottish readers share this around social media to try to get the word out?
It explains why an increase in cases is not a bad thing. Basic stuff for us here but it could help change someone’s mind… ta

87048 richard riewer, #1095 of 1392 🔗

Just interviewed on the Richie Allen Show, August 12, 2020. Andy Wakefield.

87049 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, -2, #1096 of 1392 🔗

Andrew Wakefield 1986 The Act: What The Government Don’t Want You To Know About Mandatory Vaccines86,091 views •

  • June 24, 2020

Save for later
Listen to the podcast

87069 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to richard riewer, 4, #1097 of 1392 🔗

Sorry, that guy is a total charlatan. If I’m going to be a lockdown sceptic, I’m going to be an Andrew Wakefield sceptic squared.

87104 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Recusant, 3, #1098 of 1392 🔗

On what basis do you say that? From MSM information that also tells you lockdowns and masks save lives? Or from your own research? If it’s your own research presumably you can supply links.

87122 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to OKUK, #1099 of 1392 🔗

I just found this:
Another charlatan? No idea.
and this from the New York Times in 1986, Presdient Reagan signing a bill on exporting drugs that were not tested in the U.S.A. to other countries:

87196 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to OKUK, 1, #1100 of 1392 🔗

On the basis that he fabricated a study into MMR vaccine without telling anyone he had a financial interest in a company that competed with it. The guy is a total fraud. Playing the “MSM” card doesn’t make him right.

87203 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Recusant, #1101 of 1392 🔗

Total fraud, or just a fraud?

At the start of the triple MMR vaccine story, there was a not insignificant number of number parents with children with bowel issues and/or autism. Wakefield looked into it and it was interesting.

At the same time, you, has a parent, could only access the triple vaccine, not individual vaccines. However, Blair, when asked on TV, did baby Leo receive the triple vaccine, he strenuously refused to comment, stating that baby Leo was entitled to his privacy (even though the Blairs have parading him round in front of the cameras the previous weeks/months).


87577 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Recusant, #1102 of 1392 🔗

Sadly, all you’re doing here is repeating the MSM card.

87207 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 5, #1103 of 1392 🔗

Andrew Wakefield has had a long career fighting against vaccine harms. The MMR issue was placed at his door – he spoke out about safety concerns. The media and pharma have spent decades destroying his reputation.

It remains to each of us to decide who and what we find to be correct. Without looking into the link above, Andrew Wakefield has lately been explaining the absolute dangers inherent with RNA vaccinations, emphasisng how final the RNA method is if it does cause unknown harm. There’s no going back from genetic modification. He’s also has given a really informed suggestion about reasons for the progression from cultured vaccines to the new technology.

Without listening or reading somebody is it right to discount them? Perhaps people have read him an have decided he is wrong in his comments. Discredited by a discredited media and pharmaceutical industry. I would guess words were taken from context and even lies were written.

87128 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Recusant, 4, #1104 of 1392 🔗

Please watch his interview with Brian Rose before assuming he’s a charlatan. I was agnostic on Wakefield but have since come around after actually hearing him speak and watching Robert Kennedy Jr. as well. Given how the MSM has censored Nobel prize winners and other top scientists in the last 6 months, keep an open mind to the idea that Wakefield was blackballed because he was a threat to big pharma and the government.


87141 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #1105 of 1392 🔗

Robert Kennedy Jr is brilliant in my view. His father took on the Mafia and we know what happened to him and his brother… RFK Jr
is just as brave – just a different Mafia.

87148 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to OKUK, 1, #1106 of 1392 🔗

Fully agree.


87199 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to OKUK, #1107 of 1392 🔗

He may have taken on the mafia but that had nowt to do with his eventual murder. Ditto his brother.

87198 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1108 of 1392 🔗

Bobby Kennedy wants to repeal the First Amendment so he can arrest people who dispute that climate change is caused by humans.

Bobby Kennedy is not your friend.

87246 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Recusant, #1109 of 1392 🔗

“Bobby Kennedy is not your friend.”

Let’s just think for a moment. You are ‘telling’ another person who isn’t their friend. Just step back and think about that.

Perhaps there are more reasonable ways to express what you would like to say.

Apologies for ‘ ‘ I cannot italicise.

87197 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Recusant, #1110 of 1392 🔗

“that guy is a total charlatan” – how so?

87322 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to Winston Smith, #1111 of 1392 🔗

Recusant is projecting.

87576 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Recusant, -1, #1112 of 1392 🔗

Nonsense Recusant. You’ve been brainwashed.

87248 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to richard riewer, -1, #1113 of 1392 🔗

Surely, Wakefield was struck off for falsifying data, not for having inconvenient views?

87268 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #1114 of 1392 🔗

The MSM have brainwashed us into believing this. Having listened to Wakefield himself I now believe him to be a man of great integrity. It is shocking how we have been (and are still being) lied to. Check out interviews where he can speak for himself, and make your own mind up.

87374 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Kate, #1115 of 1392 🔗

Quite often when you listen to snake oil salesmen you end up believing in the power of snake oil. Look at Wakefield’s publication history with the same scepticism you should apply to the government. He falsified data for a paper without telling everyone he stood to gain financially from the alternative.

87332 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1116 of 1392 🔗

My Lockdown crazy COVID mental cousin once tried to tell me that Andrew Wakefield was HAROLD SHIPMAN. He got them mixed up…That’s true that is. He was going on about anti-vaxxers and said something like oh yes and you know that discredited anti vaxx doctor Harold Shipman…..

87050 Snarly, replying to Snarly, 4, #1117 of 1392 🔗

One for all you iphone users. Does any one have the Coronavirus special coverage in the apple news feed? It appears under channels in the following list. It seems that unlike other items it can’t be removed. If you tap edit, coronavirus is the only item not to get a red delete roundel. The reason I’m asking is that my daughter who is extremely anxious at the moment is bombarded with the worst of the scare-mongering covid stories which is having a devastating effect at the moment, even though I’m telling her it’s a load of bullshit. She relies on the newsfeed for other things so not using it is not really an option. Obviously it’s an odious way to get more people brainwashed with this agenda. If anyone can find a way of switching it off, we would be so grateful.

87091 ▶▶ jim j, replying to Snarly, 6, #1118 of 1392 🔗

I wrote to them to complain about how lopsided the coverage “chosen by the editors” really is. It’s a bit spooky/unsettling how consistent the digital media behaviour is. No, I couldn’t find a way to get rid of it either.

87106 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Snarly, 6, #1119 of 1392 🔗

The globalist control over media is insiduous and mendacious. The USA desperately needs a 21st century equivalent of their anti-trust legislation to cut the media giants down to size and control their monopoly activities.

87164 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 2, #1120 of 1392 🔗

Hopefully Mr Trump will see to that if re-elected.

87310 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Snarly, 3, #1121 of 1392 🔗

I know this is difficult but tell her SHE NEEDS TO STOP USING HER PHONE. Get her a old style crap phone that does calls and texts NOTHING ELSE. If she wants to go online, do it with a PC or a laptop so at least she can have some control over the junk she gets bombarded with. Reading news from her phone’s news feed or even from Windows 10 due to the way it funnels news and advertising at the user, now is guaranteed to give people mental issues. It is supposed to.
I have an iphone and using Safari is just totally TOXIC with the advertising and pop ups I never use it. I just do not understand WHY PEOPLE USE SMART PHONES AT ALL really. Reading stuff on them is hard, typing stuff on them is a monumental pain in the butt. WHY??

87342 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1122 of 1392 🔗

With you on that one 2-6 !!!!

87340 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Snarly, 1, #1123 of 1392 🔗

why would anyone want an apple news feed on your iphone.. ??

87573 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Snarly, #1124 of 1392 🔗

Of course not using a smart phone is an option. Rejoining the human race is always an option.

87175 ▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, #1126 of 1392 🔗

How do our medical experts here respond to it?

87070 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1127 of 1392 🔗


Harvey Reisch Prof Epidemiology Yale Univ.
Strong defence of HCQ but only in outpatients and for those over 65 or any in risk groups
Interesting the attacks he is getting from colleagues and Fauci. Important information that FDA supposedly a federal agency get one third of its funding from pharmaceutical companies.Reisch has published several articles in mainstream medical journals about early HCQ treatment.

87135 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1128 of 1392 🔗

FDA, supposedly a federal agency, get one third of its funding from pharmaceutical companies.
Most likely thanks to President Barack Obama.

87099 RickH, replying to RickH, 4, #1129 of 1392 🔗

Note that the CEBM has just put up a paper on the revision of PHE’s Covid death counting :

The one issue it doesn’t cover is the validity of PCR tests as a diagnostic tool.

87192 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to RickH, 3, #1130 of 1392 🔗

CEBM have separately covered this issue and Carl H tweeted about it yesterday; https://twitter.com/carlheneghan/status/1293533126229139468
I think they find that their work is better noted and reported if they stick to one specific item at a time.

87130 Mark, replying to Mark, 4, #1131 of 1392 🔗

This Daily Mail story reads like a targeted hit-piece aiming simultaneously at maintaining the smear campaign against Sweden and renewing the disastrously successful propaganda campaign against the concept of herd immunity that, back in February and March, basically ensured we would be unable to respond rationally to this latest cold virus.

Disturbing. As much as anything because it was beginning to look as though they might be forced to give up on the anti-Swedish campaign. However, it could be that the renewal of the mainstream media propaganda campaign against the concept of herd immunity is a sign that reality is starting to reassert itself in this regard.

Only 15% of Stockholm residents caught coronavirus despite no Swedish lockdown in blow for hopes that herd immunity will combat the disease

Herd immunity does not work as a Covid strategy, research suggests.
Sweden, which never imposed a national lockdown, claimed herd immunity would protect its population.
This tactic would have meant so many people contracting and becoming resistant to Covid that it would no longer spread.
But analysis by University College London suggests the nation is way off hitting that goal.
Only 15 per cent of the population in Stockholm, the capital, have been infected so far, according to antibody testing.
Some 60 per cent would be needed to acquire herd immunity.
Sweden, meanwhile has seen infection rates and deaths far higher than its Scandinavian neighbours.
As of June 23, it had recorded 5,161 deaths – 511 per million of the Swedish population.
That is about ten times higher than those in Norway, which had 45 deaths per million and Finland, which had 59 deaths per million.
And five times higher than Denmark, which had 104 deaths per million.
But, notably, not as many deaths as in the UK, which at the same point had seen 637 deaths per million.
The British Government came under fire in March when its scientific advisors revealed they were also exploring the idea of herd immunity.
Sir Patrick Vallance, the Government’s chief scientific advisor, said on March 13: ‘Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission, at the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it.’
The researchers, writing in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine, said Sweden’s strategy has been to rely on people’s ‘individual responsibility’ to curtail the spread of the disease.
This follows the Swedish sociocultural concept of ‘folkvett’ – the common sense of the people as a collective.
Lead author Professor David Goldsmith said: ‘It is clear that not only are the rates of viral infection, hospitalisation and mortality (per million population) much higher than those seen in neighbouring Scandinavian countries, but also that the time-course of the epidemic in Sweden is different, with continued persistence of higher infection and mortality well beyond the few critical weeks period seen in Denmark, Finland and Norway.’ He added that in these countries, rapid lock-down measures brought in from early March seem to have been initially more successful in curtailing the infection surge and thus the malign consequences of Covid-19 on the country as a whole.
Professor Goldsmith added: ‘We in the UK would do well to remember we nearly trod the same path as Sweden, as herd immunity was often discussed here in early March.
‘Right now, despite strict – but tardy – lock-down in the UK, and the more measured Swedish response, both countries have seen high seven-day averaged Covid-19 death rates compared to other Scandinavian and European countries.’ Interestingly infection rates in London and Stockholm have been similar.
Antibody tests suggest 17 per cent of those in London have been infected – similar to rates in the Swedish capital.
So while a lack of lockdown measures in Sweden seem to be linked to higher infections and deaths than their Scandinavian neighbours, locking down in the UK has not protected this country from a similar fate.
Experts last night said the concept of herd immunity as a protective strategy had been flawed from the start.
Dr Simon Clarke of the University of Reading, said: ‘Natural herd immunity, generated by letting Covid-19 sweep through a population, may have been an appealing notion to some because of the lack of a lockdown or curbs on people’s freedoms, but it was nothing more than an idea which lacked supporting data.
‘The Swedish experience of attempting to achieve this, compared to other Nordic countries responses, resulted in much higher numbers of infections and deaths per capita, in addition to a prolonged outbreak.
‘These findings should prove a salutary warning, that appealing concepts and theories require supporting data when people’s lives are at stake and should not be used to fit pre-conceived na

87137 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 8, #1132 of 1392 🔗

Contemptible non-journalism.

87161 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, 3, #1133 of 1392 🔗

Their readers do not seem to be falling for it.
“So the headline says 15% have had the disease now but the statistics in the article say 17% had had it in April, I would have expected the % to go up not down !”

87174 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 10, #1134 of 1392 🔗

Er …so they had this deadly, ferociously infectious disease among them and didn’t run away shrieking and hide and STILL only 15 in every hundred of them caught it?
What does that tell us about lockdowns?

87190 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #1135 of 1392 🔗

The sheer dishonesty of current journalism is no surprise in the Bile – but it is now the general standard.

Do you clock the hypocrisy in that last sentence?

87297 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, #1136 of 1392 🔗

Clock it? I copied it to my clipboard and pasted it here:
Dr Simon Clarke of the University of Reading, said: ‘Natural herd immunity, generated by letting Covid-19 sweep through a population, may have been an appealing notion to some because of the lack of a lockdown or curbs on people’s freedoms, but it was nothing more than an idea which lacked supporting data.”

87559 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #1137 of 1392 🔗

Do these people not have friends, go to the pub, have kids in schools, go shopping, etc ? Not sure what my reaction would have been if living next door to ‘Dr’ Clarke.

87439 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #1138 of 1392 🔗

Yes, the crowning turd on what is basically a piece of propaganda thinly disguised as reporting.

87200 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark, 7, #1139 of 1392 🔗

Dr Clarke at Reading is the round faced beared goto guy, by Sky particulsrly. As mentioned yesterday he has no trouble on live TV casting people as anti vaccers – then immediately saying Russias vaccine IS rushed as it takes years to develop safe vaccines – then saying the UKs vaccine attempts are brilliant, expect them within months. His university page has him as a microbiologist with no recent publications found.

87288 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, 2, #1140 of 1392 🔗

He’s horrible. Always spouting alarmist nonsense.

87564 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, #1141 of 1392 🔗

Only an associate professor. s.r.clarke@reading.ac.uk

87162 BobT, replying to BobT, 21, #1142 of 1392 🔗

In a normal world, PHE overstating the total number of recorded deaths with Covid-19 by over ten percent would be considered an abject failure of their responsibility.
Now, according to Prof Carl Heneghan (my hero), PHE’s method counts 100 daily deaths instead of a real 11. This statistic has fed into decision making processes which affect the lives of millions (or even billions if you include the effect on the lives of peoples outside the UK) This is not just abject failure of responsibility but it is criminal in the worst way. Certainly it is gross negligence on the part of PHE and maybe worse.
The PHE boss has issued a typical spin rersponse while at the same time admitting that they were previously overcounting on purpose. BBC has brushed it off as unimportant and nobody except the readers here are up in arms.
Obviously, I do not live in a normal world.

87171 ▶▶ RickH, replying to BobT, 11, #1143 of 1392 🔗

My pet poodle is applying to the BBC as a journalist. It reckons it’s a piece of piss carrying bulletins from the government in its mouth.

87163 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 19, #1144 of 1392 🔗

Local Online News headlines this morning.

Total UK Coronovirus death toll revised down by 5,000 following review of figures.

No new Covid deaths in (main) Hospital for 11 weeks.

6 new UK Covid deaths in UK yesterday, none in our region.

UK in steepest economic depression among major global economies.

Doubts raised over the future of local family owned bakery whose 12 retail outlets have remained closed since the start of lockdown.

It ain’t working out well is it Bozo ?

87173 ▶▶ RickH, replying to karenovirus, 9, #1145 of 1392 🔗

You think he gives a toss?

87202 ▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1146 of 1392 🔗

Bbc 10 news last night had the figure reduced by 7000.

87235 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #1147 of 1392 🔗

Under-exagerating still.
BBC R4 8am news about to start, wonder what nonsense they’ll try today.

87165 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 3, #1148 of 1392 🔗

What do people know about the supposed greater risk of transmission through singing? I believe it’s a load of nonsense but does anyone have links to any studies?

87170 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Moomin, 16, #1149 of 1392 🔗

Studies? Studies? What ever are you thinking?

We’re so SAGE we don’t do studies. We do magical thinking.

87172 ▶▶ annie, replying to Moomin, 12, #1150 of 1392 🔗

A sane clergymen (a rara avis indeed) told me that a trained professional singer can send breath a couple of feet ahead of her when singing at full blast.
As for those of us who merely love to sing, officially we can’t because singing causes ‘exhalation’.
In other words, stupid jerks who do not know the meaning of the word ‘exhalation’ have the power to utterly silence the singing voice.
I have tried to get my choir to. meet and sing out of doors, but the faithless feebles won’t try it, Although quite a few of them sang the Welsh national anthrm ( which is about freedom and preserving your identity, and specifically mentions singers) during the NHS clapperies. They make me sick.

87176 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Moomin, 3, #1151 of 1392 🔗

It’s based on an assumption, in the same way they assumed smokers would die of the Covid in droves when it’s rather the reverse to their dismay.

87552 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, #1152 of 1392 🔗

Know what you mean, karen, but as a smoker am not dismayed in the slightest. 🙂

87201 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Moomin, 12, #1153 of 1392 🔗

I am not sure about full studies but there have been some reports;
My wife plays the flute and is concerned that similar worries are raised about wind instruments. There again you can only spread it if you have got it!

I went swimming this week for the first time since lockdown, Chagford outdoor pool, lovely spot but of course the changing rooms are shut and you have to change in the car park! Which on Dartmoor in a heat wave is not too much of a problem but might feel different in January! The swimmers were mostly fit and bronzed through spending lockdown out and about in the Devon sunshine and swam fast, I could hardly keep my designated 5m swimming distance. The idea that any of these people represented such a public health risk that you could not open the changing rooms was laughable.

87234 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #1154 of 1392 🔗

And you are in chlorine which kills the Cobid dead.

87215 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Moomin, #1155 of 1392 🔗

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

87344 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Moomin, #1156 of 1392 🔗

We all know it’s 10% bullshit. One of the ways to destroy the community.

87180 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 14, #1157 of 1392 🔗

Looking at the deaths figures after the reduction, it becomes clear that the misreporting was responsible for the majority of deaths since July. The UK previously seemed to have a much higher lingering death rate than compatible countries. No longer is that true.

Lots of the zombies do occasionally use worldometers to top up their panic levels. Surely now even they will start to see that this “horrible” virus is far less dangerous than crossing the road.

87189 ▶▶ annie, replying to TheBluePill, 9, #1158 of 1392 🔗

No, they are not human, reasoning is far beyond them.

87217 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to annie, 3, #1159 of 1392 🔗

They have been *made* to be like that through the breakdown of any semblance of honesty in media and politics.

I know you can argue that they could be different in terms of looking at the evidence, but propaganda is powerful.

87223 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 8, #1160 of 1392 🔗

Also, now that reported deaths are averaging only 10 per day, wouldn’t it be possible for someone with the investigative abilities to probe every single death (i.e. do the job that Whitty and co should be doing). I have a sneaky suspicion that the remaining 10 per day may all be deaths that just happened to have had a positive test in the prior 28 days. After all, they are probably busy testing care home occupants every month in the hope of chalking them up as a covid death when the inevitable happens. If it turned out that literally no one is being killed by it, surely the madness would have to stop.

87284 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #1161 of 1392 🔗

No – because cases!!!

87341 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to TheBluePill, #1162 of 1392 🔗


87205 ▶▶ annie, replying to BJJ, 3, #1164 of 1392 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

87231 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 6, #1165 of 1392 🔗

This may become the icon of moronic cretinism, just as the Melbourne girl in a choke hold will become the icon of mindless brutality.

87209 ▶▶ RickH, replying to BJJ, 4, #1166 of 1392 🔗

Absolutely f.ing bananas!

87328 ▶▶ mjr, replying to BJJ, 1, #1167 of 1392 🔗

looking at the page, and the zoom screen that shows the 6 participants. i see that 5 are dutifully wearing masks whereas one lady is not wearing a mask and seems to be attempting to wear a cat. She might have something here. We know how useless masks are and that a cat probably has the same effect in preventing infection
comment image

87335 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #1168 of 1392 🔗

but seriously, the point being made is that it is being done to show that it is more important to be seen to be virtue signalling than there being any medical or therapeutic affect for wearing a mask … but i will go for the cat option anytime if it comes from puss to shove

87359 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mjr, #1169 of 1392 🔗


87206 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 18, #1170 of 1392 🔗

Gutted this morning. Eldest son was told yesterday that he is being made redundant. He only started this job less than a year ago and has been furloughed for some, but not all of the time. It is a firm of accountants and business developers with five offices in the Midlands-business developers? Don’t make me laugh.

87210 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 21, #1171 of 1392 🔗

Very sorry to hear that and am angry on your behalf. This should never have had happened, Boris et al should really take a long hard look at themselves. They have not save any lives, instead they have wrecked millions of lives.

87212 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Margaret, 9, #1172 of 1392 🔗

I’m very sorry to hear this Margaret.

87229 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 3, #1173 of 1392 🔗

So very, very sorry.
Keep fighting. Bear witness.
They will pay.

87254 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Margaret, 2, #1174 of 1392 🔗

Sorry to hear that. I know how it feels and hope he finds a new position soon.

87431 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Margaret, #1175 of 1392 🔗

Sorry to hear that, Margaret. The vital thing for him is to not allow it to affect his confidence, to recognise that in this he’s affected by big political and economic forces and it’s most likely nothing to do with his own abilities. More opportunities will come, though it might take some time.

87208 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #1176 of 1392 🔗


Marijuana use has increased in the last decade, with an 8% rise from 2011 to 2013. In the United States, more young adults use marijuana than any other illicit drug, with 52% reporting use within their lifetime.’

U.S. National Library of Medicine 01 June 2015

The largest study of the effects of the main ingredient of cannabis has shown definitively that it can cause short-term paranoia.’

‘The study, funded by the Medical Research Council (MRC), is the most in-depth investigation ever of the paranoia-inducing effects of the main psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, THC (Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol).’

Medical Research Council/University of Oxford

‘Twitter provides a platform for neurotic people to share their fears.’

‘Twitter remains dominantly focused on the world’s ills in a way that can decimate a person’s sense of efficacy and replace it with profound despair.’

‘A recent study from the University of Chicago found that “the mere presence of one’s own smartphone reduces available cognitive capacity.” And a recent New Republic article asked journalists whether they could live without Twitter. The answer was uniformly “no,” although many people acknowledged that life without Twitter would be “better.”

The Atlantic 19 July 2017

‘The permanent campaign comprises a complex mixture of politically sophisticated people, communication techniques, and organizations—profit and nonprofit alike. What ties the pieces together is the continuous and voracious quest for public approval.’

‘Less obvious are the thousands of orchestrated appeals that are constantly underway to build and maintain favor of the certain publics and targeted elites for one or another policy cause. Thus, while some of the endless appeals for public approval are quite direct, many others are so indirect that “the people” and their thinking are mere fodder for framing issues and controversies for elite consumption.’

‘The Permanent Campaign and Its Future’
American Enterprise Institute and The Brookings Institution 2000

Add mass ingestion of harmful chemicals to Twitterati, add a dash of the political theory of ‘The Permanent Campaign’ (the antithesis of political leadership) and we arrive at where we find ourselves today.

87326 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tim Bidie, #1177 of 1392 🔗

Nice tune.
Dope makes you paranoid – known since the 70s at least.
Twitter is nasty.

87355 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, #1178 of 1392 🔗

Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean they are not out to get you

87426 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1179 of 1392 🔗

Nice. That would be right up Peter Hitchens’ alley.

87211 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 9, #1180 of 1392 🔗

Death statistics vastly overstated and testing compromised by false-positive results. What further evidence does one need of the incompetence of our public officials. Surely this wasn’t deliberate to keep the fear going?

87214 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bill Hickling, #1181 of 1392 🔗

It’s not ‘public officials’ in that general sense that are the problem – it’s the Tory spivs in government and their satraps.

Blame where it belongs.

87241 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 3, #1182 of 1392 🔗

Thank fuck for conservatives because if it were left to lefty tossers like you i can’t imagine how fucked we’d be, maybe like the 70’s or worse.

87337 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Biker, -1, #1183 of 1392 🔗

Ha ha, the three day week was under a Conservative government. Harold Wilson was an intellectual giant beside this shower. I actually remember the 70s, unlike you I bet.

87419 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, #1184 of 1392 🔗

I remember the 1970s as well, and I well remember that the three day week and our economic and social problems in general were caused by a global oil shock on top of years of trade union arrogance and state run business inefficiency. Just as there are hundreds of thousands of people today who think they have a job because of state furlough subsidies, there were millions in the 1970s who only had a job because the taxpayer was keeping the business afloat, and it was as unsustainable then as it is now.

That’s why Thatcher was elected in the end to clean up the problems that Heath and the “Conservatives” of the time had been too weak to deal with.

The only good thing that I recall Wilson ever doing was keeping us out of Vietnam. Credit where it is due. Otherwise, in political terms Labour was the cause of the country’s descent into “sick man of Europe” status in the 1970s. the “Conservative’s” admitted failure was basically being too weak and incompetent to resist them and the union thugs manipulating them.

87596 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, -1, #1185 of 1392 🔗

Sorry but there was massive inefficiency in private business too. You’re from Manchester, I was appalled visiting the C19 machinery in cotton mills there, at the time, whilst the Japanese were investing in kit with a water borne weft. Complacency rampant, failure to invest. Agree the problem was perpetuated by Labour propping up failing companies and out dated technologies. Just like this government looks like trying to prop up civil aviation, the High Street, and HS2.

88538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Bruno, #1186 of 1392 🔗

what has private business got to do with you. Id some business man is making a mess of his business that’s his lookout and nothing to do with the government or it’s slaves

88537 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Bruno, #1187 of 1392 🔗

i remember and i remember labour and i remember state education and it looks like to me you’re a fine example of the kind of braindead nonentity i’m talking about.

87216 Biker, replying to Biker, 32, #1188 of 1392 🔗

Out playing in Portobello last night. Pubs full, restaurants full, cafe’s full, beach hoaching with hot women and musclebound dudes. No social distancing, no mask, not even on any of the bar staff. Everyone having a jolly old time. No one there gives a fuck about this virus lie. Everyone there knows that this virus is as fake as a Tony Blair smile. The media need to start telling the truth. We’ve been going there all summer the place is mobbed day and night and we’ve had zero problems with their fake virus. It’s almost like it doesn’t exist. How do the lying bastards in Government square the fact that hundreds of thousands of people have been down here over the months having a good time, drinking dancing playing sports, having fires, kissing and fucking (probably) and not a single case, anywhere? Clearly the media and folk like Sturgeon have shown their true colours and are trying to build the Forth Reich. They are evil people. Boris looks cute with his podgy body and his squiffy hair and his plummy voice but it’s all a cover because he’s a dictator. Horror shows like Sturgeon are so vile they want to destroy everyone in the name of “safety” and she’ll kill you to achieve this. Most people don’t believe the bullshit and are doing what they want. If only someone from politics would stand up and represent us they’d win a landslide in an election. Remember just because people are wearing these masks in shops don’t mean that most people don’t hate this and aren’t behind what’s happening. When will fuckers like Johnstone and Sturgeon get their jack boots off our throats? and when will we have had enough and fight back? When will one of the faggots at the BBC stand up and be counted? When will one of our MP’s make a stand? If i were a MP i’d stand up and fight these bastards day and night and become the hero the British people need.

87219 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Biker, 2, #1189 of 1392 🔗

“Most people don’t believe the bullshit and are doing what they want. If only someone from politics would stand up and represent us they’d win a landslide in an election.”

That’s touching- and patently wrong.

This lot got *voted* in.

87221 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to RickH, 10, #1190 of 1392 🔗

Where’s the opposition been these past 4 months?

87224 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1191 of 1392 🔗

My one of it has been noticeably silent about the Covid, and everything else for 4 months. Used to think of as a good mp, even for a socialist.

87244 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1192 of 1392 🔗

Jeez a good socialist. How the fuck can you think such a thing? These people are the worst of humanity.

87281 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, #1193 of 1392 🔗

Help! Being got at by Biker !

He’s always been a very conscientious constituency mp. Most people know someone he’s helped against Them be that thePolice , NHS, the council or school whatever.

87306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to karenovirus, #1194 of 1392 🔗

just because he’s smiling while he’s got his hand in your pocket don’t make him a decent person.

87226 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 4, #1195 of 1392 🔗

Yes but we didn’t vote them to establish rule by diktat, via twatter.

87232 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1196 of 1392 🔗

But the incompetence and dangers were obvious to anyone paying attention.

87238 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, -1, #1197 of 1392 🔗

The idea that you’re paying attention is laughable.

87282 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, #1198 of 1392 🔗

Before the last election?

87237 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 3, #1199 of 1392 🔗

i’m not wrong and most people don’t give a fuck because i’ve been all over the country and saw it for myself, oh and fuck off with your patronising bullshit you tedious tosser. Is that touching enough for you wanker

87290 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 1, #1200 of 1392 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

87220 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 1, #1201 of 1392 🔗

I’m with you Biker!

87225 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 7, #1202 of 1392 🔗

Dunno the answers to your questions. But people having a good time is the dynamite that will blow the foul buggers up.

87277 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 3, #1203 of 1392 🔗

Why oh Why oh Why aren’t people who do MUSIC setting up gigs and raves EVERYWHERE?

87305 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, #1204 of 1392 🔗

That’s two tickets, then…

87351 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, #1205 of 1392 🔗

Yer The Criminal Justice Act saw to raves didn’t it. Banning illegal processions and gatherings which were characterised “by a series of repetitive beats”. Michael Howard did that one.

87495 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, #1206 of 1392 🔗

Really? So that’s military bands etc. err – banned then.

87319 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, #1207 of 1392 🔗

fucking (probably)

It’s only a probability in Scotland, eh ? 🙂

87222 swedenborg, 9, #1208 of 1392 🔗

New national lockdown ruled out in Poland despite rising COVID-19 cases
“There is no talk today, with the rising number of infected people or very high number of those who are still infected, of coming back to closing the economy,” he said.

87227 RickH, replying to RickH, 14, #1209 of 1392 🔗

I’m up and about (and bored) at this time because I’ve had to come into hospital.

What fascinates me, sitting here observing is the mindless way in which this now absent virus is dictating so much – utilisation of space, wearing of masks, sticking pointless swabs in orifices etc.

Those responsible for such crass perversions and waste of resources need to be made to pay.

It is incredible how mass delusion is dictating things.

87233 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to RickH, 3, #1210 of 1392 🔗

Rick, are you seeing the ’empty wards, idle staff’ that we hear about?

87243 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Sam Vimes, -2, #1211 of 1392 🔗

Rick see’s things alright, through his commie glasses

87253 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, 1, #1212 of 1392 🔗

Ooh, Mr. Biker, you are awful – but I like you.

87262 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Biker, 3, #1213 of 1392 🔗

I can read the MSM if I want nonsense.

87298 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, -2, #1214 of 1392 🔗

as a socialist you’re too fucking stupid to know how stupid you are. Fuck off

87302 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Biker, 2, #1215 of 1392 🔗

Get a room guys

87260 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1216 of 1392 🔗

No – not that, although the effect of the reduction of capacity ( not down to ward staff) is probably having an effect still. I’m in an assessment ward that has reduced from 4-2 beds.

I was at another hospital yesterday, and the same applies – although the idiocy of cancelled appointments has eased.

I feel for the staff having to wear masks all the time – especially in yesterday’s temperatures.

87236 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 1, #1217 of 1392 🔗

Are the porters wearing masks ? Ours don’t.

87263 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1218 of 1392 🔗

I think so – but there aren’t many around at the moment.

87409 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1219 of 1392 🔗

It’s a vitally important point that we as a society tend not to properly take on board. All that wasteful theatre, wasted space, wasted effort, it all represents a colossal drop in productivity, in pursuit of a delusion, a fear fantasy.

A big drop in productivity means a big drop in wealth, ultimately. Where we are doing things for the state, it costs more to get them done. Where we are doing things for business, they are more expensive, and worst of all where we are competing with other countries that don’t engage in the same suicidal nonsense, we will flat out lose business.

Coronapanickers especially on the left (and believe it or not Rick I am not saying this as a snide dig at you here, you are as obviously not a coronapanicker as you are of the left) will argue that questioning this is “putting money ahead of lives”, but as we all here know, ultimately money is lives.

87513 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #1220 of 1392 🔗

“Where we are competing with other countries that don’t engage in the same suicidal nonsense.. ” That’ll be our notable competitors Sweden and Belarus then. Or were you maybe thinking that US will come out of its health trance shortly?

87228 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1221 of 1392 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.03.20167395v1 Viable SARS-CoV-2 in the air of a hospital room with COVID-19 patients
“Findings – Viable virus was isolated from air samples collected 2 to 4.8m away from the patients. The genome sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 strain isolated from the material collected by the air samplers was identical to that isolated from the NP swab from the patient with an active infection
Not good news for mask fanatics

87269 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, #1222 of 1392 🔗

Woo big deal eh? A viral particle in the air….one of 100Brazillian that are around us everywhere all the time.

87291 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1223 of 1392 🔗

Just one more argument that this respiratory virus can not be stopped and we must learn to live with it i.e .normalize life as we have done after all flu pandemics

87230 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1224 of 1392 🔗

Andy Burnham has dynamite proof that there has been an increase in testing:


87240 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Sam Vimes, #1225 of 1392 🔗

Check out the replies, depressing.

87251 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark II, #1226 of 1392 🔗

Oh, yeah. A few sceptics, but lots of sheep.

87242 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1227 of 1392 🔗

Best reply to that “what should it be at for us to feel/be safe”?


87252 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to matt, 2, #1228 of 1392 🔗

I have come to loath Andy Burnham.

87267 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendy, 1, #1229 of 1392 🔗

I loathed him FIRST!

87266 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, #1230 of 1392 🔗

“Wear face coverings when out and about” AND *Praying hands” what a Charlie

87239 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #1231 of 1392 🔗

Do off duty police wear masks in shops and anywhere else the rest of us are supposed to?

87261 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #1232 of 1392 🔗

I’ve seen some do and some don’t.

87278 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, #1233 of 1392 🔗

I’ve only seen not. But they are exempt anyway.

87316 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, #1234 of 1392 🔗

True that.

87318 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1235 of 1392 🔗

Off duty still exempt?

87321 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 4, #1236 of 1392 🔗

No. They are subject to the law the same as everybody else. We cut the head off a king to show nobody was above the law. Seems to me that the lesson needs relearning :o))

87408 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, #1237 of 1392 🔗

How’s your average covid going to work out on or off the meter?

87490 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, #1238 of 1392 🔗

Woops, missed the off duty bit. It was a quick post before going shopping – and I forgot my mask too…

87613 ▶▶▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Basics, #1239 of 1392 🔗

Possibly, depends if the exemption works the same way as an Orange Badge, as these can often be assigned to the person who shops for the recipient, who can then use it to do their own shopping. A lip reader may be exempt at all times if the rules are applied in the same way.

87250 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 19, #1240 of 1392 🔗

Let me get this straight. Hancock, during one of his half hours, said that shop workers are 75% more at risk from dying with Covid-19 than other workers. Yes, yes, we know that his figures were completely wrong, even Mr Big of M and S said so.

Why is it then, that In virtually every shop I’ve been to so far, the shop workers are not wearing masks? Admittedly, when some of them first reopened, there were quite a few with masks or visors but this has gone by the board.

Do they have suicidal tendencies or have they had a lightbulb moment? I’d be interested to know.

How long will it be before customers have their own lightbulb moment?

87276 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 7, #1241 of 1392 🔗

Sure you know this, Margaret, but the law exempts shop workers from wearing masks. You see, The Deadly Virus ™ is a clever little blighter that knows if you are staff or not.
You would think there would be a light bulb there for the cattle, but seemingly not…

87294 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Margaret, 12, #1242 of 1392 🔗

Margaret, his figures were completely right, the male shopworker rate was 175% of that of all males. The trouble was, he was only talking about 43 male shop worker deaths in total, at the time! That’s what happens when you’re dealing with very small numbers, a jump from 1 death to 2 is a 100% rise, sounds scary – but are you scared? Me neither. Ben Goldacre used to write entertainingly about this in relation to medicine.

87299 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bruno, 7, #1243 of 1392 🔗

It’s even worse! When you go from 1 death to 2, you then have 200% of the original deaths. When modelled, that means 134 million people in this country will die!

87333 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1244 of 1392 🔗

Yep. You can play around with this a lot if you want to mislead. E.g. show relative risk reduction to exaggerate the apparent benefits of a treatment: if four people out of 1,000 will have a heart attack within the year, but on statins only two will, that is a 50 percent reduction if expressed as relative risk reduction. But if expressed as absolute risk reduction, it is a reduction of just 0.2 percent. That’s one of Ben’s. He’s at the CEBM now, I cannot understand why he isn’t writing furiously about this every day. But he was appointed head of some body to examine all UK NHS data by Matt Hancock not that long ago, so maybe a case of establishment capture?

87373 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1245 of 1392 🔗

How to Lie with Statistics by Darrell Huff

This book, first published some 60 years ago, should be required reading, possibly as part of the GCSE Maths course. All the nefarious trickery he exposes and explains is in daily use by the media, and not absent from a worrying number of scientific papers.

87383 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Strange Days, 1, #1246 of 1392 🔗

I have a copy of that book. I first came across it at school where we had an excellent mathematics teacher who would go outside the syllabus on occasion.

87353 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, 4, #1247 of 1392 🔗

I have been using the same small Tesco and large co op most days since lockdown, not one new face has replaced a Covid Fallen because there have been none.

87354 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, 3, #1248 of 1392 🔗

Because wearing a mask for 20m while you do your shopping is a PITA. But wearing one all day if you work there is really going to get old fast. I don’t think the shops are buying into this. Most of them have probably told their staff it’s optional.

It’s also a reassuring signal to unmasked customers that they aren’t going to be told off at least not by the shop staff.

Yes you’re right it’s obviously all completely illogical of course.

87424 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to guy153, #1249 of 1392 🔗

Must confess Nick that I had to look up your acronym PITA-a bit slow on the uptake this morning. IMHO (I’m into acronyms in a big way now!) masks are certainly intended to cover the government’s arse, big time.

87498 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Margaret, #1250 of 1392 🔗

What is it?

87255 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 19, #1251 of 1392 🔗

Professor David Speigelhalter on the Today programme at 7.35ish, rubbishing PHE’S daily death toll (75 and it was actually 11) and then rounded on the BBC as having reported atrociously on the whole affair. Worth a listen

87264 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Marie R, 7, #1252 of 1392 🔗

Aye, it were refreshing to hear. In truth the total adjustment,10%, bain’t be that much – but it seems to be having a great impact on the margin. What will register with the great British public is that the figures are dodgy. Or will it?

87270 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Ned of the Hills, 12, #1253 of 1392 🔗

If you look at Carl Heneghan’s follow-up in the Spectator there’s a graph which shows how the figures diverge over time. At the peak of the disease there was very little difference between the reported deaths and the deaths post-adjustment; now, however, the difference is stark. In other words, the death rate has fallen much faster than reported. If that message becomes more widespread, the public may understand that the danger such as it was has passed.

87338 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #1254 of 1392 🔗

Whilst the chart makes it easy to see how much BS there is in the figures, the only reason you can’t call BS back in May/April is that the deaths fell within the arbitrary 28 cut off, there’ll still be a huge over count going on in the earlier months as Covid was slapped on every death certificate regardless of real cause then too. When you couple that with the huge reduction in medical care & social care (as well as isolation from family etc) back at the beginning of the farce, it is no wonder a huge number of old people started dropping dead – that they may have tested positive for Covid within 28 days of their death doesnt make the figures any more accurate.

Unfortunately it’ll be impossible to prove that one, so suspect Carl & his colleagues wise to focus on forcing a cut off for now.

87349 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Mark II, 3, #1255 of 1392 🔗

I agree, the figures remain at best problematic. At least now, however, they are a great deal lower (75% reduction of Covid deaths in the last week) which means it’s much easier to persuade people that getting back to normal won’t be a death sentence. That should tilt public opinion and – assuming the polls aren’t completely stitched up – give the Government an incentive to start unwinding the restrictions.

87363 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #1256 of 1392 🔗

Government an incentive to start unwinding the restrictions.” – They already have a huge incentive – to stop tanking the country, but they appear to have a bigger incentive to continue this nonsense, we’re just not aware of exactly what it is. There are lots of theories on here, of course, and I guess we’ll find out which one is right when it’s too late.

87366 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Mark II, 1, #1257 of 1392 🔗

Perhaps give them cover would have been a better term. As long as they believe (whether genuinely or erroneously) that the populace approve of the distancing measures they won’t change them. I think they’re doing a bit of a Jim Hacker with the opinion polls: “I am their leader – I must follow them.”

87390 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark II, #1258 of 1392 🔗

Define “real cause”. In the over 70 cohort where the deaths occur.

87429 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bruno, 1, #1259 of 1392 🔗

The thing that actually killed them, you’ve tried this before Sylvie – it’s not a hard concept to grasp.

87569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark II, #1260 of 1392 🔗

It seems however really hard for you to grasp that respiratory viruses routinely finish off old people with on average 2-4 co morbidities.

87345 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #1261 of 1392 🔗

The figures were really dodgy. To be getting 75 deaths a day when infections are so low would have meant the IFR was around 2.5% or that we hadn’t quite done burning through care homes yet.

12 deaths per day is still too many. I would expect it to be about 3 based on 3000 infections per day. I think we do still have some care home deaths biasing things. Will be interesting to see what PHE say with the new methodology.

87357 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 2, #1262 of 1392 🔗

It’s an interesting point. They’ve been regularly blanket testing in care homes – staff and residents – although I think I saw that they’d stopped now. They’ve also been finding a lot of asymptomatic infections among the over 80s as a result. One fact of life is that people die in care homes. As a result, whatever the cut off date you apply to counting a positive test subject who dies as a Covid death, you will inevitably end up with a not insignificant amount of over counting.

87369 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 1, #1263 of 1392 🔗

Especially if you keep blanket testing old people for it, and especially in care homes.

I’ve just had a quick look at the data

It shows that in 2018 144,652 people aged 80+ died… which works out at 392 per day. So sure, if you can get enough of them to show as having tested positive for Covid, it’ll give you a nice steady drip of people dropping dead within 28 days of that test, regardless of what killed them.

87358 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to guy153, 3, #1264 of 1392 🔗

I don’t think we’ll ever have genuine figures. What we will have, however, is a shift in the narrative – newspapers are now picking up on Heneghan’s work on PCR accuracy – which is what we need to get out of this mess.

87371 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #1265 of 1392 🔗

I think people need to be careful about that though. The problem with the PCR test is just that, even though the specificity is very good, you need near-perfect specificity when the prevalence is so low.

I don’t think the case is helped by people quoting Mullis and saying it’s a “meaningless” test, can’t be used for diagnosis, implying that it will regularly detect virus fragments in recovered patients. It makes them sounds like cranks.

It’s a good test, with limitations like any other, but right now is the wrong tool for the job. If your wood-chisel breaks because you’re trying to open a tin of paint with it it’s not the chisel’s fault.

87404 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to guy153, 1, #1266 of 1392 🔗

That was rather Heneghan’s point. The false positive rate becomes more of a problem the less prevalent the disease becomes.

87531 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Andrew Fish, #1267 of 1392 🔗

Yes Heneghan obviously knows what he’s talking about. The risk is that the argument gets characterised by the opposition as “PCR tests are NBG” which is an extreme view and easy to debunk.

87396 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #1268 of 1392 🔗

Define “genuine figures”. There’s nothing false about loads of old people dying in care homes with CV 19 positive swabs. Just goes to demonstrate how contagious it is, how little was done to prevent it getting into care homes because that wasn’t understood at the time, and indeed how hard it still is to prevent its spread via lockdowns. Which we do need to know.

87401 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Bruno, #1269 of 1392 🔗

I don’t think you can define genuine figures, which is why people are still complaining after yesterday’s announcement that the numbers are still bunk. Unfortunately, like so many things in life, there’s no simple answer and you’re left with what Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen call “lies to children” – simplified representations for consumption by people who can’t take a nuanced argument.

87422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Bruno, 1, #1270 of 1392 🔗

“There’s nothing false about loads of old people dying in care homes with CV 19 positive swabs.”

Care to unpack that with details?

Is it that contagious? Is it that deadly?

What are the actual figures, I’m not sure anybody really knows?

Loosening the restrictions for signing the death certificates, no post mortem and mandatory cremations suggest that some people don’t want the truth to get out.

87575 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Winston Smith, #1271 of 1392 🔗

Contagious, yes. Deadly – only to a certain group. Mandatory cremation?? Where?

87271 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #1272 of 1392 🔗

I fear not on the basis of experience. The gullibility seems endless, backed by the most egregious propaganda that I’ve ever seen.

Journalism in the real sense is almost dead.

87352 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to RickH, #1273 of 1392 🔗

I did write:-

“What will register with the great British public is that the figures are dodgy. Or will it?”

I added the last three word in because as I wrote the sentence before I recalled an even worse debacle with the figures in Ireland. See:-


The discrepancy did nothing though to undermine the population’s confidence in the country’s doomsayers. No doubt because it was hard to fathom – I still haven’t fathomed it!

87365 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1274 of 1392 🔗

It’s worth noting that Carl Heneghan published a paper a few weeks back about the problem with false positives. This was pretty dense and would have gone over the heads of the lay public. Since then he was distilled the sense of it into much more intelligible pieces in the Spectator and this has been picked up by the Telegraph, who have further simplified it. If this pattern continues then we will get to the point where the Daily Star has an easy to follow graphic which explains the problem and the public will understand.

Since we have a somewhat different press culture than Ireland, this may explain why the same hasn’t happened there.

87380 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Andrew Fish, #1275 of 1392 🔗

I’ve copies of the Spectator going back four or six weeks – will I find what Mr. Hensingham has said in one of those issues? Much thanks.

87386 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1276 of 1392 🔗
87272 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Marie R, 3, #1277 of 1392 🔗

Yes young Robbo was a little non-plussed. The professor did rather bail out when Robbo gave him the chance at the end of the interview to tell us the real picture now.

87279 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Marie R, 5, #1278 of 1392 🔗

Sorry Marie – just seen your post and listened to this too. It was just after 8am news. Almost cheered when he criticises the BBC reporting too! Nick Robinson’s ‘ could do better’ really doesn’t cut it. Carl Heneghan was also on More or Less yesterday – the voice of sanity as always…it’s beginning to look a little more hopeful?

87292 ▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to Telpin, #1279 of 1392 🔗

Perhaps the 8am bit was a precis of what was said at 7.37…listen to it in full

87259 swedenborg, 5, #1280 of 1392 🔗


AUCKLAND:NZ is mulling to extend the coronavirus lockdown in Auckland after health officials said the coronavirus cluster in the city had grown.
National health director-general Ashley Bloomfield said a high school student in Auckland had tested positive, taking the number of confirmed infections to five, with another four probable cases.

87273 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 18, #1281 of 1392 🔗

Unbelievable- Today on Radio 4 actually interviewed an academic on risk from Cambridge University who was scathing in his criticism of both PHE and the BBC’s and MSM’s reporting of death figures – all of which he said had resulted in unreasonable fear. He called PHE’s reporting ‘ridiculous‘. Of course we all know this already but very, very slowly the BBC can no longer ignore the reality of the figures and is having to allow more critical voices. Of course no real ‘meal culpa’ moment but nick Robinson did end the piece with the words ‘could do better’. That’s an understatement! Listen to it on iPlayer just after 8am news item this morning.

87286 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to Telpin, 2, #1282 of 1392 🔗

The full interview was at 7.37am

87313 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Telpin, 10, #1283 of 1392 🔗

When the BBC realise that they can now show Boris killed about as many people as possible by going into lockdown, most of the excess deaths being non-covid, and that the virus isn’t the black death and we over reacted; it will give them a big stick to hit the government with.

87315 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 14, #1284 of 1392 🔗

But some of us will remember who stoked the overreaction. MSM have as much blood on their hands as government, politicians in general, and the failed public institutions behind them.

87334 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 5, #1285 of 1392 🔗

You’d hope so. But having been the biggest cheerleader for the panic themselves such a big turnaround would take some chutzpah even for them.

87339 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 6, #1286 of 1392 🔗

I have a nasty feeling that when the BBC changes their tune (along with the rest), there will be a total failure to acknowledge it was ever different. We are at war with government tyranny and the erosion of liberty. We have always been at war with government tyranny and the erosion of liberty.

87346 ▶▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to matt, 3, #1287 of 1392 🔗

We have always been at war with Eurasia

87478 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Recusant, #1288 of 1392 🔗

And carried on trading with them. It’s what men do.

87348 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 2, #1289 of 1392 🔗

I can’t see the BBC changing their tune on covid, unless they really get backed into a corner. I think it suits their agenda too well.

87364 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 4, #1290 of 1392 🔗

We’ll see. Personally, I think they’ll trot out whatever message is going to pull the viewers in as long as it can be spun to suit the woke agenda. I can see the story “the government lied to us, manipulated us and turns out not to have been able to manage a piss up in a brewery” being quite an exciting story for a few days, until it turns out that someone, somewhere has been saying that “trans women” are not actually women.

87393 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #1291 of 1392 🔗

My experience of the BBC and the enemy class in general inclines me to believe that matt has the right of it here. They absolutely will turn on a dime and shamelessly reverse their own position (so long as it doesn’t adversely affect any woke agenda issues), if it makes for an exciting story that they can attack a Conservative” government with. They will push the “didn’t execute well enough” line until it becomes impossible to sustain and then they will probably transition to just “uncaring, incompetent Tories sacrificed millions of jobs” line when the big issue is the economy.

Things will look as different in a year’s time as they did a year ago. Neither the BBC’s siding with Blairites against Corbynites in the official left’s civil war for control of the “Labour” Party, nor the BBC’s tactical alignment with the government of the day to push coronapanic changes the underlying truth that the BBC institutionally (the vast majority of people who are employed there as managers, editors, journallsts) vote Labour or LibDem and hate the “Conservatives” with a vicious passion. Always have and presumably always will, because the BBC will have to be effectively ended before those Augean Stables can possibly be cleaned out.

87405 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #1292 of 1392 🔗

Yeah but you must admit, it would be terminally boring if it were stuffed instead with the journalistic equivalent of Grayling. And would be the death of comedy.

87440 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Bruno, #1293 of 1392 🔗

Beeb getting brickbats from rail industry about yesterday’s accident. The train was heading back North, for example, not continuing its journey. All we got on the news was clueless speculation. People are making the connection: “what else can we believe”

87454 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, #1294 of 1392 🔗

I’d absolutely take boring over systematically politically biased.

In fact, I’d make the case that state-funded news and analysis should be required to be boring. All the flashy and emotive stuff is basically manipulation.

As for comedy, BBC/lefty comedy has been dead for some time now. Conformist dogma isn’t a good basis for comedy.

87471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #1295 of 1392 🔗

Well I liked ‘This Country’. And the Detectorists.

87280 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 7, #1296 of 1392 🔗

So let me get this straight, if you look at the graph in this article for daily cases and deaths in France, cases are up and deaths have flatlined. Surely that shows that things aren’t that bad doesn’t it?


87283 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Moomin, 9, #1297 of 1392 🔗

More cases and fewer deaths would mean the virus is less lethal.

87285 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Kate, 8, #1298 of 1392 🔗

Or that testing has increased and that the increased cases are false positives.

87289 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Andrew Fish, 8, #1299 of 1392 🔗

If you believe (as governments around the world seem to) that every positive test is a genuine infection and the deaths don’t increase as recorded infections do, then the infection fatality rate can only go down.

87329 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 2, #1300 of 1392 🔗

Yes this is the irony. If we take Pillar 2 positive rate at face value (as a random sample) we get an IFR of about 0.04%. So which is it? Either T&T is junk or the virus is nothing to worry about, by the government’s own data.

The truth is T&T is junk and the IFR is probably about 0.1% as we know from other sources (it’s probably about half or lower of what seroprevalence estimates give you).

87325 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #1301 of 1392 🔗

Some of them (probably about 10% or so very rough estimate) might be real positives as well of course. There obviously are going to be some real positives in France. Since they’re plotting absolute numbers not ratio of positive to number of tests it’s completely meaningless and doesn’t tell us if there has been an increase or not.

87336 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to guy153, #1302 of 1392 🔗

If that’s 10% of the overall positive tests, then – depending on the increase in testing and prevalence of the disease – it’s entirely possible for the increased cases to be all false positives. As you say, without measuring positive results against total tests we have no way of knowing.

87367 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Andrew Fish, #1303 of 1392 🔗

They all act (as do the UK gov) like the absolute number of positive infections is the total number of cases, because they want to pretend like they’re in control of everything.

But of course in reality it’s a sample– the ONS estimate of 3000 infections a day in UK is reasonable. But T&T is finding about 600 (of which probably only about 40 are real positives anyway, but this is impossible to know, partly because their methodology is so bad and they don’t tell us obvious things like the asymptomatic ratio).

87287 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Kate, 4, #1304 of 1392 🔗


87293 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kate, 3, #1305 of 1392 🔗

The other factor is that ‘cases’ don’t equate to actual infection and illness ( see the stuff on PCR testing)

87331 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 2, #1306 of 1392 🔗

Yes they should stop calling all positive tests “cases”.

87324 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Kate, #1307 of 1392 🔗

Or that people have developed ‘community immunity’ due to repeated low level exposure to low doses that have produced minimal symptoms.

87307 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Moomin, 3, #1308 of 1392 🔗

BBC was making out that newer cases affecting younger people was a bad thing as though they were gonna die like the oldies did. Probably the same in France.

87360 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1309 of 1392 🔗

Sigh, it already happened when Italy announced it was finding 38 year olds with the virus, shock, horror, via increased testing. The correct response should be “oh goody, they’ll be gaining immunity” . I’m wondering if CV19 is like human syncytial virus, another respiratory one, where everybody gets it before the age of 5 and recovers, mostly undamaged, and it’s not much trouble in the population thereafter? Views, any medics here?

87368 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #1310 of 1392 🔗

Yes, come to think of it, why aren’t people drawing the comparison with this sort of virus? I realise that CV19 is having the nasty new blood clotting effects in lungs in some older frail subjects, but then you get bad things in old people with other respiratory viruses. Once this sort of thing has run wild through children, you don’t have a naive population and everyone stops panicking?

87407 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bruno, #1311 of 1392 🔗

There’s also the consideration of the baseline levels. Flu happens all year round but the impact is manageable.

Seeing numbers go up has to be considered in absolute terms rather than relative terms. Sadly perspective appears only to be something learned in Art History

87323 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Moomin, 1, #1312 of 1392 🔗

See what happens in three weeks. If deaths go up following infections then it’s real. If not then it’s just increased testing (my money is on the latter but I haven’t looked at France in detail).

87378 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to guy153, 2, #1313 of 1392 🔗

We’ve had something of a heatwave across Europe and excess mortality is often driven up by heatwaves. The US have had extreme heatwaves in southern states, many with climbing “Covid” death rates. Will the same happen in France? Hope not, but I wouldn’t bank on anything right now.

87387 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #1314 of 1392 🔗

Exactly. It is impossible to genuinely unpick Covid deaths from any other kind of deaths at the moment and that will continue in to the winter flu season. The Covid agenda will not be dismantled by data unfortunately, it will run as long as people want it to, consciously or subconsciously (through confirmation bias).

87330 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Moomin, 5, #1315 of 1392 🔗

I see from the article it has been used to justify bringing in more masks in Paris. Also Brussels has gone Aussie/US style crazy on the masks now too – all outdoor places it reads like.

None of these bellends in charge, nor the media reporting on it, pointing out that masks _weren’t_ widespread when the cases & deaths plummeted after April, of course. Now though, despite the continued lack of any clinical evidence, masks are just accepted (my media, the sheep) as an ‘essential’ tool for everyone to use.

87375 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mark II, 1, #1316 of 1392 🔗

That’s the great puzzle (the puzzle of the muzzle) why this mania to put people in mask when cases and deaths were plummeting?

If it has any health benefits there is certainly a great ‘dis-benefit’ – it breeds paranoia.

I’ll answer my own question. It is intended to make the populace feel secure and go about living normally.

The opening of schools is going to be an acid test as to whether it creates security or insecurity.

87296 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 7, #1317 of 1392 🔗

I have emailed a few health journalists at the BBC. (It’s their name, with . between first and second name, @ bbc.co.uk). Perhaps we should all do this (or someone here will know of more influential people), and rather than bombard with the usual papers, a Swiss doctor etc, we should quote Speigelhalter directly, on the flagship Today programme and say that there is a reckoning coming and they are part of the problem (or substitute your own diatribe)

87308 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Marie R, 2, #1318 of 1392 🔗

Good idea. Do you know any of their names?

87327 ▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to Telpin, 2, #1319 of 1392 🔗

Look on the health bit of bbc website. Nick Triggle, Noel Titheradge, but a trawl should reveal much more senior news people. I’m going to post later, one Toby has done today’s posting, to get maximum number of readers, verbatim what Speigelhalter said

87343 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Marie R, 6, #1320 of 1392 🔗

Triggle has been one of the less bad ones. Deborah Cohen, who has done some good stuff on Newsnight, is not staff I think but freelance. If you google her, you’ll find her website and a contact email address, which she does look at (at least she answered the email I sent her). She was the one that broke the story on the WHO mask decision being political, and also did a very good piece on Leicester which basically showed the whole thing was a sham. She’s also active on Twitter and does reach out with questions about stuff.

87309 James Leary #KBF, 20, #1321 of 1392 🔗

’For my family it is over 5 months and we are still not able to see my 87 year old father except through locked double glazed patio doors’

Every time I read something like the above, every time I see or listen to really good music being played to a full concert hall, every time I see replays of the Stokes heroics last year to the sound of full stadiums, then I want to kill, literally kill all the venal incompetent politicians and all the useless self appointed ‘scientific’ experts who are making us linger in this purgatory in an attempt to save their own useless arses. Why do we put up with this? What is WRONG with us? There is only one solution, or we are theirs forever.

87311 swedenborg, 1, #1322 of 1392 🔗


“The three headed monster of my Covid cartoon is real and represents a major threat to our lives and human society as we knew it. This very insightful and detailed analysis helps us appreciate what is going on.”

Great cartoon again.Splendid.

87312 Stephen, replying to Stephen, 23, #1323 of 1392 🔗

Excellent article by Guy de la Bédoyère.

Fully agree that the role of government is meant to be about reducing uncertainty through a consistent legal / policy framework, not adding to it.

The “governments” in the UK (plus many others) see themselves in the role of King Canute. They want to hold back the waves. But the virus will do what it does. Just like the waves do. Their inability to control the waves has then led to the constant changes of direction as they flail around rather than just admit that this is an impossible task. They then grasp at the mirage of miracle solutions such as Track and Trace (this seems to work properly nowhere), apps (a classic 21st Century thing) and a vaccine (without discussing that proper tests inevitably take years because that is how long side effects may take to show up).

As it becomes more apparent that they have lost control then we will see a ratcheting up of the petty rules (masks, local lock downs etc.) and possibly even more draconian enforcement efforts. Governments that have no real control tend to be the most violent ones in history. Governments that have control do not need to be violent. Melbourne is now a test case for this. The evil of dictatorship always starts with perceived protection of the population from threats. Cromwell was the “Lord Protector”.

To some extent one gets the government that a society deserves. So we are all partially culpable. However, the lack of leadership and unwillingness by government to talk rationally about trade offs has been the most disappointing aspect of this. Either we hide for ever, hope for a vaccine (when, will it be safe etc.?.) or we get on with life before we all die anyway of something else.

The media have not helped but one senses that this government just lacks moral courage. That must come right from the top. It is the first time in our history when government has actively contributed to the general sense of societal panic rather than focusing on helping people to get through it. For that, they deserve to go down in history with total ignominy.

87350 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Stephen, 4, #1324 of 1392 🔗

Remember Canute was actually *making* point that there are some things you can’t control. Would Mr Toad had the same wisdom.

87389 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to RickH, 1, #1325 of 1392 🔗

Canute is a prime example of the wrong message being taken as most people haven’t re-read the story.

Same as Uncle Tom, who’s the hero that strives through adversity and never loses his morals

87512 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Stephen, #1326 of 1392 🔗

Agree wholeheartedly, Stephen

87314 Dan Clarke, 7, #1327 of 1392 🔗

Is it a Global ‘exercise/pandemic’? which David Speigelhalter has said will take years to analyse and did it follow on from Event 201 which was a virtual exercise. What is happening now has been vigorously disputed as the ‘reality’ event. Also Agenda 21 which is already happening, a Global sustainability plan which already is national around the world and then down to regional. How far your region takes it is entirely up to those who run the region, as we can see already. What is ‘sustainable’ in your area too, do they mean the people too?

87347 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #1328 of 1392 🔗

Yale University study underway to identify most effective messaging – advertising campaign for the Vaccine

The idea that the vaccine promotion might be more “overwhelming” than what we’re used to is further supported by a clinical study 5 on ClinicalTrials.gov, the aim of which is to identify the most “persuasive messages for COVID-19 vaccine uptake.”

1)Personal freedom message — A message about how COVID-19 is limiting people’s personal freedom, and how society, by working together to get enough people vaccinated, can preserve its personal freedom.

2)Economic freedom message — A message about how COVID-19 is limiting people’s economic freedom, and how society, by working together to get enough people vaccinated, can preserve its economic freedom.

3)Self-interest message — A message that COVID-19 presents a real danger to one’s health, even if one is young and healthy, and how getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the best way to prevent oneself from getting sick.

4)Community interest message — A message about the dangers of COVID-19 to the health of loved ones: The more people who get vaccinated against COVID-19, the lower the risk that one’s loved ones will get sick. Society must work together and all get vaccinated.

5)Economic benefit message — A message about how COVID-19 is wreaking havoc on the economy and the only way to strengthen the economy is to work together to get enough people vaccinated.

6)Guilt message — A message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one’s family and community. Therefore, the best way to protect them is not only by getting vaccinated, but to get society to work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then a test question asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don’t get vaccinated and then spread the disease.

7)Embarrassment message — A message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one’s family and community: The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the embarrassment they will feel if they don’t get vaccinated and spread the disease.

8)Anger message — The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one’s family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. It then asks the participant to imagine the anger they will feel if they don’t get vaccinated and spread the disease.

9)Trust in science message — A message about how getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the most effective way of protecting one’s community, that vaccination is backed by science: If one doesn’t get vaccinated that means that one doesn’t understand how infections are spread or you are one who ignores science.

10)Not brave message — A message which describes how firefighters, doctors and front line medical workers are brave: Those who choose not to get vaccinated against COVID-19 are not brave.


87356 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Victoria, 5, #1329 of 1392 🔗

i think it reads so much better and makes more sense if “lockdown” is substituted for “COVID-19” in paragraphs 1-8 and then ignore paras 9 and 10 and lose any reference to vaccination

87361 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Victoria, 6, #1330 of 1392 🔗

Virtue signalling is the new ‘whatever’, clap for the NHS, bad if you dont, wear a muzzle for the other people, bad if you dont, eat out to ‘help out’, bad if you refuse to etc etc.

87362 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 2, #1331 of 1392 🔗

So medicine and ethics are being reduced to advertising, and Yale enhances it’s academic credibility by measuring the effectiveness of lies to help Big Pharma?

87372 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, 6, #1332 of 1392 🔗

This is just horrible. They have got ALL the bases covered haven’t they.
This is beyond evil. The level of psychological manipulation is staggering. When are people going to wake up to this and switch off??

87376 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Victoria, #1333 of 1392 🔗

As long as the antithesises to these messages and the thesises they are based upon are just ignored, censored or diffamated, rather than being discussed to find synthesises, I pass on each of them, in particular on 9/because it can then by definition not be valid, rather, it’s opposite is and will remain true.

87377 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Victoria, 6, #1334 of 1392 🔗

a test question asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don’t get vaccinated and then spread the disease.

Little snippets like this are an interesting insight into the ‘aggressive conformant’ mindset. It’s the same as the reported trolling on Toby’s dating site where it is assumed that lockdown sceptics know they are more likely to be diseased than everyone else.

The aggressive conformant doesn’t understand that people in the independent-minded half of the “four quadrants of conformity” are not just playing a contrarian game or indulging in slogan-based politics. They aren’t so shallow that they are going to feel ‘guilt’ for the consequences of not rushing into a vaccination that will have been developed by people on the same, stupid continuum as Neil “two pounds eleven” Ferguson.

87379 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Victoria, 2, #1335 of 1392 🔗

Turn every one of those upside down would be more like it

87382 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, 4, #1336 of 1392 🔗

When possibly the commonsense message would be Corona virus parties for the under 5s, music festivals for the teens and twenties with plenty of mingling of body fluids, normal life for the healthy under 65s, take your choice if you want any promising looking vaccine for us oldies, like we do at the moment with flu. But then we’re not in the US.

87385 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Victoria, 4, #1337 of 1392 🔗

I’m surprised that “My Body My Choice” hasn’t been more popular. You are sacrificing your health and wellbeing for others.

The same argument is used for abortion, where the health and wellbeing of a woman is her choice not yours.

Doesn’t matter that critics of widespread abortion (200,000 + cases a year in the UK) state that the systematic effects (less children) has an impact on society.

No, My Body My Choice.

I’m not against abortion. But there’s a society level conversation that isn’t being made but for some reason is being made for Covid.

87445 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, #1338 of 1392 🔗

Thank you Victoria. A brilliant find and a timely post. This is the direction of the battle for the coming season.

How futile each of the ten treatments are – each undone by pointing out it is the response that cause all the issues not the virus.

Really good to share these explanations when dressed up for presentation.

People really value having adverts and messaging unpicked for them.

87370 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1339 of 1392 🔗

Disappointing to hear Margaret MacDonald* just now on a rubbish beeb R4 programme about post Covid leadership.
She is normally sound on most things but ended with “when we come out of the Pandemic crisis we will enter a financial crisis and then of course there is the climate crisis….”

Boy child presenter saying “Johnson did…”
I don’t think much of him either sonny but I’m not a BBC presenter, he is The Prime Minister respect the office.

* Toronto Uni, History.

87395 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1340 of 1392 🔗

Noticed a change in MSM today.Some change to climate alarmism as the fear factor of Covid fades

87397 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #1341 of 1392 🔗

Covid could be our chance to win the climate battle. Dodgy models and scientists, no evidence, complicit MSM, the mantra of the supranationals looking for collectivist solutions, banning dissent. It’s the exact same.

Show the person on the street the similarities and it could turn opinion.

87399 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #1342 of 1392 🔗

It IS the same thing. It IS the Same people behind both things. The World Economic Forum and others.

87425 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1343 of 1392 🔗

So true.The climate scam wasn’t working so they found a new one

87433 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1344 of 1392 🔗

It’s been suggested that the uptake of vaccines wasn’t working out for these globalists and so this Covid reaction was a desperate measure to get better uptake and adoption among the peasants. Rememeber GAVI mission to ensure healthy markets for vaccines. While I have no evidence to support this I do like the thinking that what we are encountering is desperation on behalf of the globalists, their plans going awry.

87438 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Basics, 1, #1345 of 1392 🔗

I like the thinking but they are patient and have so much power! Any thoughts on my comment a few up from here about ‘climate change’?

87462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Rosie, 1, #1346 of 1392 🔗

I have taken the link and will give it some thought. The climate varies from covid in that the ingrainedprogramming is decades old with the climate. It is the same bamboozle of science and the censoring of critical thinking debate.

The resource you have written is excellent in it’s place. How to get people to find and read. I would work on sign posting to it with a few sharp points. Or another alternative would be to use one topic and present that as a flyer. Call to action would be to visit your page, request PDF etc.

Sort of narrowing the wedge to meet people in their own life.

QR codes can be useful.

You could send your link with a covering paragraph to independent content providers – they may well bd greatful to cover you and your pamphlet as content for their own work.

87537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Basics, #1347 of 1392 🔗

Many thanks. I’ve come up with a three-point summary and will put that on at the top. I’ve tried a few independents and not heard back, or only minimally. Need to do stuff for an hour then hopefully continue the conversation. I’m hampered by poor IT skills and lack artistic skills as well.

87568 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Basics, #1348 of 1392 🔗

OK, I’ve put up the three-point summary, on the top of the home page. The whole thing is written to avoid the ‘Conspiracy Theory’ accusation (no mean feat).

87428 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #1349 of 1392 🔗

Global corporates are just looking for money, not ‘collectivism’.

Think Covid. Think ‘Kerchinggg’.

87430 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1350 of 1392 🔗

Hi Lockdown Truth. The climate battle ‘ought’ to be easier to win because the absence of science, logic and reason is still easier to prove, and because it ought to be in the realm of rational debate and not ‘you’re a Granny killer if you don’t wear a mask’. So I wrote a booklet along these lines, but I’ve no idea how to promote the booklet or put it to work. If you (or anyone) can advise I’d certainly like to hear. It’s here both as text and as a PDF https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/

87436 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1351 of 1392 🔗

More Greta?

87417 ▶▶ RickH, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1352 of 1392 🔗

Johnson deserves no respect – he demeans the human race, let alone the office.

87441 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to RickH, 2, #1353 of 1392 🔗

Agree, but the BBC ought to be putting in the formalities.

87504 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, #1354 of 1392 🔗

It’s not for that boy to demean The Prime Minister in a job like his

87492 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, #1355 of 1392 🔗

Oops Margaret Macmillan, knew I’d messed it up but got distracted by work stuff for a while.

87384 stefarm, 15, #1356 of 1392 🔗

Cycled past a tattoo parlour this morning, big sign on the door.


Another one for the hope you go out of business list.

87391 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1357 of 1392 🔗


“PCR tests pick up virus remnants and fragments of an infection recovered-from long ago: Two Chinese Patients Test Positive Months After Virus Recovery

 One patient had recovered from C-19 six months earlier.
Interesting the spin in BloomBergNews(MSM) is the possibility of reactivation of infection (Project fear part 2)
The above suggestion more likely or false positive. But why is not virus isolation done in the case to give us the solution? The Koreans did it with over 300 cases when they produced the report that fragments could be found in PCR tests up to 8 weeks.

87416 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, #1358 of 1392 🔗

Yep. PCR test not a diagnostic tool. But it comes up with the results ( if you want to give the Scary Fairy a treat)

87398 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1359 of 1392 🔗

Covid clutters our streets and councils waste our money.

As mentioned previously Edinburgh council has being carrying out a campaign of large white stickers to areas around pedestrian crossings. The message is don’t press the button between 9pm and 7am – the crossings are on automatic timers. Thoughtfully the council have introduced corrugated plastic and zip ties by repeating the message at finger tip level as well.

Today I spotted the reason – Covid19. The finger tip level signs have a black covid19 of doom logo tucked in one corner.

Covids have now been fully trained to use pedestrian crossing, you can see them crossing like a family of ducklings.

For those thinking this was a greta of arc measure. It isn’t!

87400 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 6, #1360 of 1392 🔗

Have COVIDS evolved to be able to have a sense of time now too? This is truly a worrying development.

87411 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #1361 of 1392 🔗

I cannot post pictures. But wish i could.

87457 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, #1362 of 1392 🔗

You need to log in proper to post a picture, up at the top

87464 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #1363 of 1392 🔗

Good clue! Thanks. Thought I was logged in!

87403 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Basics, 8, #1364 of 1392 🔗

Also handy to know the virus knocks off at 9pm. After a 14 hour shift that little guy needs a break.

87455 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Basics, #1365 of 1392 🔗

Also in Edinburgh, they are rushing through extensive street modifications – closing some roads, widening pavements, and so on – without proper consultation and declaration, claiming they are to allow people to better adhere to social distancing (they do evasively word it as “this will allow” rather than “we’re doing this because of”). In fact, these rapid programmes are a mix of things that they wanted to do anyway, to work around other developments and also for local implementation of the global “active streets” programme to make us all UN-sustainability-healthy and suchlike.

Now, I actually quite approve of some of the changes personally, but I hate that ad-hoc, ever-evolving, opportunistic “say anything that comes to mind to get people to go along with something or at least not object” approach to things.

This has been the hallmark of government and corporate communication over this whole period, of course, where the same measures are subject to ever-shifting justifications to maintain them (“save the NHS”, “flatten the curve”, “death numbers”, “R numbers”, “case numbers”, “covid zero”… “good citizen?”). In fact, you could completely ignore the statistical digging around and, just by the way the communications were handled, tell that something was “off”.

Perhaps “street smarts” are often more beneficial than “technical mindset”, then, because being too wedded to the latter – to “disproving” things and then making decisions, to “solving” the problem presented to you without first doubting the very fact that it has been presented in the first place – demands that you waste time investigating and debunking a never-ending evolving stream of new assertions, in situations where assertions and explanations are in bad faith.

87465 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Arkansas, #1366 of 1392 🔗

Lesley Mcinnes does not act for the people. She dances to a different drum.

The choking of streets is long planned. The covid socially distanced pavements are a clear joke, no one is stepping out into the coned road space to civid shuffle. Lunacy in broad daylight.

87472 ▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Basics, #1367 of 1392 🔗

It is actually extremely embarrassing, the coned-off area thing. As you say, everyone is just walking about as normal now, and the “Spaces for People” signs zip-tied to the lampposts are just reminders of how ridiculous the councils are and have been.

87402 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1368 of 1392 🔗


All confirmed community cases to be sent to special facilities and not as during previous lockdown staying in their homes.

87406 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1369 of 1392 🔗

Evil fascism

87437 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Julian, 3, #1370 of 1392 🔗

From a US tweet (still some sharp-witted left there)

“One of liberalism’s biggest triumphs was convincing courts that individual liberties-including sex and lifestyle choices-are more important than public health concerns, whether imagined or real (and there are both) Weird to see today’s “Liberals” take the side of masks/lockdowns”

 Remember beginning of AIDs epidemic? Right wing and religious zealots wanted to quarantine them.
And now the liberals are applauding NZ and Melbourne forceful respone.

87412 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1371 of 1392 🔗

Anybody would think that this is a serious infection like Ebola, rather than one that just scrapes into the CDC category 2

87413 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1372 of 1392 🔗

March them off to camp :/ These are countries in the supposedly Free World…

87414 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark II, #1373 of 1392 🔗

FEMA camps in the US getting ready to accept all the homeless due to evictions for non-payment of mortgages and rent is the rumour now.

87432 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Awkward Git, #1374 of 1392 🔗

All our homeless are in hotels like the asylum seekers.

87410 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1375 of 1392 🔗

Sky news two talking heads live. Both discussing telegraph article, ‘In Sweden’. One lady has just said exactly what we all know massive scare mongering by government causes death and killing of economy. Not cut off… very different tone. Gave a robust voicing of the culpability of the government and it’s ‘experts dimwits evils’.

Segment called The View. Sky news.

87415 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Basics, #1376 of 1392 🔗

Can’t find it, any chance of a link?

87420 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Moomin, #1377 of 1392 🔗

Sorry no. Was on live came in half way through. 10.30am Im guessing it started for 15 mins. Catch on plus one?

87427 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Basics, #1378 of 1392 🔗

OK, thanks. Sorry I didn’t realise it was live.

87449 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Moomin, #1379 of 1392 🔗

If you watch Sky News live on YouTube you should be able to rewind the feed. It was within the last half hour (11:12am now as I type)

87418 Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, #1380 of 1392 🔗

Interesting that the BBC actually completely removes comments; not just ‘This comment has been removed because it broke … blah blah’. I commented about the 77th Brigade being out in force on some article about Australian covid, and although my comment is still in my BBC account, it is nowhere to be found in the actual comments.

87447 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #1381 of 1392 🔗

As a state funded operation the BBC should be tightly controlled as to what they can censor in terms of public comments. It should be restricted by statute somehow to prevent it using censorship for manipulative political (broadly defined) purposes. It should be an overriding stated principle that being “offended” is not grounds for censorship, obscenity aside.

But obviously that is directly against the spirit of he times, in which censorship “for the Greater Good” is seen as acceptable and normal, and we pretend it’s somehow not a suppression of freedom of speech.

88045 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 1, #1382 of 1392 🔗

Jeopardy needs to be created for people who seek to deprive others of their free speech rights. It should be a punishable criminal offence.

87423 Moomin, #1383 of 1392 🔗

And I see they’ve further scuppered the chances of our young people. I knew this would happen, I don’t even know why they cancelled exams!


87435 Dan Clarke, #1384 of 1392 🔗

So was it just bad management?

87442 Nobody2020, #1385 of 1392 🔗

**New page is up**

87500 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1388 of 1392 🔗

Bit behind the times isn’t he? Perhaps he has been wearing his mask over his eyes?

87475 ShropshireLass, 1, #1389 of 1392 🔗

Excellent essay by Guy de la Bédoyère. I’ve copied and pasted it into a Word document and emailed to several friends and a couple of relatives. Hope they take the time to read it. Might also share on my FB page, though I have noticed most FB followers only seem to manage to read 3 consecutive sentences at most!

87535 Telpin, 3, #1390 of 1392 🔗

I’ve just returned from University College hospital ( for weekly blood tests). Their new system – which seeks to make everyone book in advance on line – ‘ to minimise people from coming to hospital’ , as part of the ‘new future’ ( words actually used) has ended up creating chaos. Hospitals have become a hostile environment as far as patients are concerned. You get accosted at the entrance by full PPE clothed security – ‘what are you here for? Do you have an appointment?’. If, like me, you’re there on a standard order for weekly bloods, it’s a hassle each time just to get through the door. Then a temperature test and mandatory mask and waiting in two separate areas before being allowed to proceed to the blood clinic. This bit was utterly farcical as, Carry on style, one nurse shouted at another nurse at the other end of the corridor’ How many waiting’ ,’9.’, ‘OK – sending another 2 through‘. Then another wait outside the phlebotomists area as the nurses struggled to manage a combination of the new online pre booked appointments and ad hoc patients like me and anyone else who was coming direct from any of the outpatient clinics ( just opened up). Those had to take a ticket. There was a separate nurse managing the tickets( full time). Is this really what we want our nurses your be doing rather than frontline care? The whole system is a mess and is grossly inefficient as blood test time varies so significantly- just 1 min if you’re just having a single test. so online booking just creates an unnecessary backlog. The fact that everyone in the hospital environment is now masked also makes them very unpleasant places to be. I don’t know if others have found this , but the effect is deeply corrosive and dehumanising. It’s the opposite of a therapeutic environment. Feeling deeply dejected that I have the prospect of having to subject myself to this every single week. What’s most notable is that although the number of cases and admissions have gone down to well below pandemic levels, each time I visit now, a new co – Vid procedure has been introduced. I dread to think how much time money and resource is now dedicated to this. And god forbid any one would have the good sense to carry out a cost benefit analysis. And all this on a day when it’s being reported that more than 50k patients are waiting for operations etc ( up from around 1k last year). It’s a mad mad world.

88072 A. Contrarian, #1392 of 1392 🔗

I’ve not been taking much notice of the stupid and confusing limits on how many households can meet in a tent on a Tuesday, or alternatively in a shed on a Friday. But I’ve just had a look because a friend was insisting that we can’t meet in multi-household groups even outside. But the regs seem to imply that we can have as many as 30 people inside a house but only 6 people from two households can meet outdoors? Or have I got that wrong? If not, it’s nonsensical!

Not sure even Wankock would know the details if questioned.


199 users made 1,390 comments today.

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4Richard O4
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