2020-08-13

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/08/13/latest-news-102/
Published2020-08-13T10:00:09
Last updated2020-08-13T10:32:55
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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87434 Simon, replying to Simon, 2, #1 of 1303 🔗

I win, but what do I win?…

87443 ▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to Simon, 39, #2 of 1303 🔗

Two weeks in Leicester.

87624 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Commander Jameson, -22, #3 of 1303 🔗

Leicester’s just fine dickhead.

88320 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to John P, 1, #4 of 1303 🔗

Aren’t you clever!

87627 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Commander Jameson, -19, #5 of 1303 🔗

Okay, mod.

Leicester is just fine. Your smug “humour” is NOT appreciated.

87550 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Simon, 3, #6 of 1303 🔗

A cruise

87819 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Achilles, 4, #7 of 1303 🔗

On the Diamond Princess.

87948 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Achilles, 1, #8 of 1303 🔗

Or Bournemouth

87993 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to David Grimbleby, 1, #9 of 1303 🔗

We’ve had ships moored off the coast in Bournemouth, including cruise ships, since the ports are full. So combine the two.

87563 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Simon, 1, #10 of 1303 🔗

Our great respect!

87570 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #11 of 1303 🔗

I don’t like crowing so I’ve sorted it Newest to Oldest just to spite Simon.

87914 ▶▶▶▶ Simon, replying to Achilles, #12 of 1303 🔗

I always search that way too

87811 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Simon, 1, #13 of 1303 🔗

One week at Butlins.

87916 ▶▶▶ Simon, replying to richard riewer, #14 of 1303 🔗

That might not be so bad. Forced encampment, have to abide by rules and can only go to the shop when allowed. Must take mandatory exercise at set times….. a home from home :>)

88433 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Simon, #15 of 1303 🔗

Good preparation for your future life under lockdown.

88546 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Simon, #16 of 1303 🔗

Second prize is two weeks.

Edit: Wow. Reading further down the comments here brings home to me just how massively unoriginal I am.

87816 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Simon, 3, #17 of 1303 🔗

24 hours, nonstop, living in Nicola Sturgeon’s head.

87867 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to richard riewer, 2, #18 of 1303 🔗

There’s plenty of room…

87917 ▶▶▶ Simon, replying to richard riewer, #19 of 1303 🔗

Now that’s going too far.

87919 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Simon, #20 of 1303 🔗

Vaccination.

87964 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Simon, 4, #21 of 1303 🔗

First prize, a week in Wuhan. Try some exotic delicacies from the wet market. Second prize, two weeks in Wuhan including a tour of the virology labs. Although these have no connection at all with the virus, of course.

88080 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cambridge N, 1, #22 of 1303 🔗

And, finally, a proper Chinese funeral, CCCP style.

88055 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Simon, 1, #23 of 1303 🔗

You win a win…it’s a win-win situation.

88057 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Simon, 4, #24 of 1303 🔗

A day watching videos of Matt Hancock’s Covid updates 😀

88322 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Montag Smith, #25 of 1303 🔗

Kill me now!

88323 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to T. Prince, -1, #26 of 1303 🔗

Would you like some COVID-19 with that? :-p

87444 James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 42, #27 of 1303 🔗

Hard-hitting factual article on BrexitFacts4EU website today:
https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_aug_con_us_virus

Extract:
‘…Have the Coronavirus numbers come anywhere near justifying the lockdown of our nation, the imposition of emergency powers, the denial of our civil liberties, the drastic shortening of lives because the NHS wouldn’t treat non-Covid patients, the closing of our schools and universities, the severe damage to the infrastructure of our cities and to our town high streets, and the utter devastation of our economy? No, the Coronavirus numbers have justified none of these.
Will we see far more deaths from other causes over the next few years as a result of the knee-jerk Coronavirus responses? Yes we will.
It really is time for this nonsense to end. We have always argued for a proportionate response. We urge the Government to look at the real figures that matter, stop the hysteria, and end this madness completely. Let’s get everyone back to work and back into education, and regrow our country again as quickly as possible…’

87933 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PWL, 4, #29 of 1303 🔗

Quote from the above. Good points:

Take a careful look at what your media tells you about “Covid-19”; does it reinforce the basic concept of the psyop, even if it quibbles about how deaths are recorded, or whether or not the disease is as dangerous as claimed? Does it say “Covid-19 is as dangerous as flu in the such-and-such age demographic”? It probably does. On the contrary, here at FBEL it is said that Covid-19 is a thing contracted by those whose upper respiratory tracts, but especially lungs express a high amount of ACE2. Certain people may happen to be more susceptible to the condition because of the state of their health terrain (and we deal with why in just a second). Does the reader see the difference? Only when one comes to the information that the FBEL reader is directed to (it isn’t invented) can one start to ask questions about why there is a prevalence of ACE2 in the body. The primary suspects for causation are the prescription drugs related to obesity, high blood pressure, and then further complications. Is it any wonder that ACE2 never gets an airing in any media when obesity – the gateway for the unsuspecting into a lifetime of medication (see the FBEL article , The beneficent NHS, where corporate-government makes a buck from population control ) – is such a gold mine for the NHS/pharma complex?

87941 ▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #30 of 1303 🔗

The ACE inhibitor link doesn’t get much attention although I am aware of it.

88200 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to PWL, 1, #31 of 1303 🔗
87446 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 53, #32 of 1303 🔗

Yesterday, that review was concluded and PHE has said that henceforth it will only record a death as being from coronavirus if it occurs within 28 days of a positive test.

Umm… stupid question, i know, but why not look at the cause of death? Cause it sounds to me like if you get hit by a bus in those 28 days, it still counts. Who makes up these rules?

87450 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 33, #33 of 1303 🔗

Because that would mean that COVID-19 wasn’t this big scary disease that they’re making it out to be. They’re not just gonna turn off 5 months of lies after putting so much effort into scaring the majority of the population, and suddenly give us our freedom back.

87523 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to JohnB, 28, #34 of 1303 🔗

And in the process admit they got it catastrophically wrong, have atomised the economy and caused hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths by closing down the health system for five months. They are in so deep now they might as well keep paddling because they can’t really cause much more damage and they might kid some fools into believing they are responsible for “beating” the virus.

87574 ▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Will, 16, #35 of 1303 🔗

‘They’re in so deep now…’ Not deep enough, they are digging deeper. Look what’s happening in Australia, look what Sturgeon’s trying to do. If Victoria can lock up its citizens for 23 hours a day with those pathetic figures (less than 250 deaths out of 5 million people) then don’t think it can’t happen here.

87690 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to HoMojo, 7, #36 of 1303 🔗

At least Australia is at the beginning of the epidemic. What they’re attempting to do is not worth it, and will probably fail, but Sturgeon definitely wins the award for monumental stupidity with her “Covid Zero” project.

87900 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to guy153, 5, #37 of 1303 🔗

Joint winner with Jacinda Ardern, who may yet win outright

88384 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Strange Days, 1, #38 of 1303 🔗

My money’s on Jacinda. Can we get odds at William Hill?

88063 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to guy153, 1, #39 of 1303 🔗

The words after stupidity are redundant.

87691 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to HoMojo, 4, #40 of 1303 🔗

If they can grab power, they will grab as much of it as they can.

88101 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to HoMojo, #41 of 1303 🔗

Mosside/Brixton/Hackney <> Victoria.

88728 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, 1, #42 of 1303 🔗

“they got it catastrophically wrong”

Perhaps not. It depends on the intention.

87518 ▶▶ Will, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 7, #43 of 1303 🔗

If you die in a hospice with covid in your system it is, somewhat ludicrously labelled as a covid death.

87522 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 15, #44 of 1303 🔗

From my experience many people frustratingly continue testing + ve for months after their original infection. No doubt this would mean some people would have had covid19 in March , never tested at time, serious RTA in July and get tested on admission to hospital . Positve test in July and die of injuries… covid death . It really is insane..

88655 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Peter Thompson, #45 of 1303 🔗

I would never have a test for Covid once you’re included in their statistics you become a Covid statistic!

87647 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #46 of 1303 🔗

Just explained that new rule to my 14 y/o son and he made the exact same comment. He could probably run PHE better than these morons.

87790 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to zacaway, 2, #47 of 1303 🔗

I have no doubt of it.

87823 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #48 of 1303 🔗

It’s another modeling technique.

87451 kf99, replying to kf99, 8, #49 of 1303 🔗

(Repost from end of yesterday’s page.)

Beeb getting brickbats from rail industry about yesterday’s accident. The train was heading back North, for example, not continuing its journey. All we got on the news was clueless speculation. People are making the connection: “what else can we believe?”

87595 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to kf99, 2, #50 of 1303 🔗

Ironically it looks like the Stonehaven train crash might be a case where anti-Covid measures actually have saved lives, indirectly… (the train presumably being near-empty)
Having seen video of the wreckage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53759972 it looks horrendous, comparable with far more severe (in terms of casualties) rail accidents in the past. If there had been more than a handful of people on board, surely there would have been more than 3 deaths and 6 injuries (the latter all minor)

87654 ▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Drawde927, 2, #51 of 1303 🔗

When I saw pictures of the crash site, and reports of the number of Air Ambulances which attended, I thought it fortunate this line hasn’t been electrified. They’d have had bugger all chance of putting down with 25kV overhead lines above both tracks…

87452 Little Red Hen, replying to Little Red Hen, 9, #52 of 1303 🔗

Toby – to renew a teenagers passport (as you needed to do) takes 9-10 days, all done. There is no backlog, there are no delays.
It is another piece of scaremongering to make us stay at home and not make the effort to travel abroad.
Daughter’s passport renewal (with new photo) applied for on the 20th July. New one popped through the letterbox on the 30th.

87528 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Little Red Hen, 4, #53 of 1303 🔗

Does the same apply to driving licences? Or is this another piece of scaremongering to prevent 17 year olds from becoming mobile and 70 year olds from staying mobile?

87551 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 10, #54 of 1303 🔗

Hello, I’m 67 and my husband is 71. We live in a hilly, rural area and do not run a car and we are both very much mobile, thank you very much! If you drive a car all the time instead of using your legs, you risk compromising your actual mobility and your general health.

88328 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #55 of 1303 🔗

Think you missed the point there MW.

87772 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 5, #56 of 1303 🔗

I think it is all part of a narrative designed & delivered to keep us in fear and under lock & key. It plays to all age groups but is bollox in reality.

I was also informed that car & van hire companies were not hiring out their vehicles as they could ‘not maintain C19 hygiene standards’.
This is also utter tripe – I have hired a van & cars three times since March without so much as a flicker of difficulty. My local car hire business has been flat out busy for months.

It’s all bilge. Just live your life as if all was normal and you know what? It becomes so.

87937 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 2, #57 of 1303 🔗

Can’t say but DVLA were crap long before covid …..

88278 ▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 2, #58 of 1303 🔗

I sign DVLA medical forms for people to return to driving. Had barely any from March to July but they’re starting to come through in normal numbers in the past couple of weeks.

87734 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Little Red Hen, 2, #59 of 1303 🔗

My daughter’s passport renewal also took a very short time. Sent application off on the 28th July, new one arrived yesterday.

87950 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #60 of 1303 🔗

Best not to tell him that now that he has forked out for a gaming laptop and his son has lifetime rights to the “remember that time Dad when you went away on holiday without me ..” tale.

87453 PAUL TURNBULL, replying to PAUL TURNBULL, 39, #61 of 1303 🔗

So if ive got this right, PHE still have the same problem but with a shorter time frame ? so from now on, if you ‘test positive’, then 27 days later you die of cancer or hit by a bus, it STILL goes down as a covid death ? its still bollox isnt it ?

87458 ▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to PAUL TURNBULL, 9, #62 of 1303 🔗

It’s a fudge both ways. There will be deaths to which covid is not a major contributor within 28 days of infection, and deaths beyond 28 days to which it is a major contributor.

There’s no really bulletproof way of attributing cause of death, but far be it from me to imply that they have implemented this deliberate fudge in the hope and expectation that some intrepid bedwetter will go and find cases of death after 28 days to prove it is underestimating the deaths, thus enabling the paranoia and panic to continue.

87466 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Commander Jameson, 12, #63 of 1303 🔗

Not forgetting of course that the test could be a false positive anyway. You couldn’t make it up… oh actually they are.

87467 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Commander Jameson, 2, #64 of 1303 🔗

If that was the plan then they missed a trick by not using Heneghan’s reported suggestion of 21 days as justification for adopting that number instead….

87474 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Commander Jameson, 3, #65 of 1303 🔗

That’s not really the case no, as is it not the case that they will test a sick person multiple times if still symptomatic etc and so they’d die within 28 days of most recent test. Happy to be corrected if that’s not the case, but I believe that’s the practice?

87461 ▶▶ Simon, replying to PAUL TURNBULL, 8, #66 of 1303 🔗

The good part of that is that there is now a great deal of uncertainty of any of the numbers. the efffects of now reducing them may make people start to think that they may still be over counting.

If it was increased people may think, and lets face it we know they will, that the total must be higher.

Either way, trust is broken and that will switch people more to our way of thinking.

87468 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Simon, 5, #67 of 1303 🔗

Anecdote =/= data, but I’ve heard two things that make me wonder whether this will be the actual reaction. The first was weeks and weeks ago when someone (a primary school teacher) was telling me that I shouldn’t believe the official story that kids weren’t dying and that she had a friend who was a nurse at GOSH who knew “what’s really going on”. The second was some bed wetting tweet quoted here yesterday (by Mark, I think) where the idiot quoted was saying that the “real” numbers were much higher than the official figures.

Both of which make me concerned that many people will just think they’re being tricked _even more_

87476 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 7, #68 of 1303 🔗

Oh yeah there are plenty of people still desperately hoping (for some reason) the figures are _worse_ and they believe it’s all being downplayed! Not sure how anyone could think that, but there you go

87489 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Mark II, 5, #69 of 1303 🔗

I think with the teachers it’s propaganda coming from the unions. Anything to stop schools reopening.

87496 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #70 of 1303 🔗

No. It’s just one aspect of the induced fear. It’s (unfortunately) genuine.

87493 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, 3, #71 of 1303 🔗

Promoting this idea that the Government is deliberately under-counting and “hiding” COVID deaths would be a job for the 77th boys

87494 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 6, #72 of 1303 🔗

Once you start lying, all credibility goes.

87700 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 1, #73 of 1303 🔗

Yes I think that’s what Guy de la B. was saying. Nobody trusts the government so will believe what they want, including that things are much worse.

88334 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to guy153, 1, #74 of 1303 🔗

“Nobody trusts the government” EXCEPT THOSE MORONS THAT WILLINGLY WEAR A MUZZLE

88771 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RickH, 1, #75 of 1303 🔗

I refuse to believe anything this lying government has to say about anything! Most certainly, what little trust I had went at Lockdown!

87473 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Simon, 1, #76 of 1303 🔗

Umm, no. Quite the opposite. People will be: “Ok, fine, you had good reason to be skeptical. But look! Now they made the numbers all better! These are the real numbers! Stop arguing!”

87770 ▶▶▶▶ PWL, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #77 of 1303 🔗

And this is what the exercise was for.

87484 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Simon, 5, #78 of 1303 🔗

Trouble is, I’ve talked to a few terrified people who believe that the government is deliberately UNDER-reporting the deaths, which they take as evidence that this government can’t be trusted and the virus is much worse than we are being told and we’re all gonna die!

87556 ▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Aremen, 11, #79 of 1303 🔗

I had a Twatter conversation the other week the poster was saying that because world deaths were 654,000 the virus was going to kill us all. I posted that the virus is less virulent now & that the number was only 0.008% of the world population.
The poster came back with that the deaths are vastly underestimated & 3,000,000 had died in the UK.
You really can’t help some people.

87599 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to smileymiley, 8, #80 of 1303 🔗

One year’s worth of normal deaths every month? Well, the mass graves should be easy to spot, perhaps he can show you. 🙂

87973 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to smileymiley, 6, #81 of 1303 🔗

I actually think you are right. You can’t help quite a few people and that’s really the shocker because you imagine that just a basic assessment of the facts would quell their fears but it really is something more than that. Its actually akin to a psychiatric disorder – a complete deviation from reality. I remain amazed on a daily basis to hear intelligent, thoughtful people talking as if C-19 is a deadly virus that you are highly likely to get from all manner of routine contact. They genuinely believe it and they just assume that you believe it too. Even people with OCD are usually aware that their obsessions are irrational and unhelpful. I’m not at all sure what will help apart from time i.e. ‘I haven’t died yet or know anyone who has, maybe this isn’t as bad as I fear?’ type questioning. I think most people are in too deep, I’m afraid. It’s like a spell or something.

88109 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alison9, 2, #82 of 1303 🔗

I’ve had similar feelings about 9-11 for nineteen years, Alison.

‘Basic assessments of facts’ vary depending on the person, the facts, the sources, and the degree of their interest/involvement.

88576 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to JohnB, #83 of 1303 🔗

I take your point JB.

88777 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to smileymiley, #84 of 1303 🔗

3,000,000!! FGS what a cretinous comment. Where do these people get their information from?

87661 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Aremen, 2, #85 of 1303 🔗

exactly – encouraged by the face nappy wearing

87786 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Aremen, 4, #86 of 1303 🔗

I love that how they say “the government can’t be trusted” then do everything that the government tell them to do and spout very single government line and slogan!

88011 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Aremen, 1, #87 of 1303 🔗

I don’t see how under reporting death figures would help the government. High death figures can be used to justify the lockdown and terrify the population.

87469 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to PAUL TURNBULL, 9, #88 of 1303 🔗

To quote Diana West: The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the Revolution.
They don’t care about accurate reporting. They care about generating as much fear as people are willing to accept.

87491 ▶▶ RickH, replying to PAUL TURNBULL, 1, #89 of 1303 🔗

Exactly.

87643 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to PAUL TURNBULL, #90 of 1303 🔗

It’s confusing, inaccurate and continues to be putting out false numbers. IF there are no other long term chronic conditions known or unknown then Covid can kill and sometimes does. Because there have been so few post morteums the clinicians (and Drs on this site please correct me if I’m wrong), have not been able to study in depth what happened to the major organs and if there is a treatment they can apply to stop it happening. It has got much better as the medics have been exposed to ill patients.

87657 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Keen Cook, 5, #91 of 1303 🔗

pressed return in error. What I wanted to continue to say was that one of my relatives (retired pathologist and seriously knowledgeable about viruses) was called back into her local hospital during the early panic and she says that some of her patients unexpectedly died when ‘they’ – the medics – thought they were on the road to recovery. She was particularly saddened to lose a mid 50s patient (overweight male) suddenly and overnight and there was nothing they could do about it – then. But what I want to see in big bold black newsprint in the MSM is the tiny numbers (what about 1700?) of people that have ‘only’ died of Covid without other contributing additional illnesses and old age. We have been appallingly served by our government, media and pubic health. Time for a reboot. BTW going to the mask free march in Hull tomorrow if anyone else is around?

88037 ▶▶ Questor, replying to PAUL TURNBULL, 2, #92 of 1303 🔗

Lets look on the bright side then 4000 people have suddenly recovered from Covid and risen from the dead? surely time to celebrate?
I suspect that when the real figures are finally totalled up another 20000 or so will be back amongst those who didn’t actually die of “the virus”. The tragedy is however the 20000 and counting who have certainly died of lockdown related causes. May I suggest some form of national memorial to the victims of government incompetence? a memorial wall with the names of every patient who died because of withdrawn cancer treatment, every shopkeeper who committed suicide…. that might just be enough to stop the politicians of the future making rash and ill considered panic decisions on the advice of disgraced statisticians

88083 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Questor, 1, #93 of 1303 🔗

Make it a time capsule and bury the incompetent politicins inside it.

88329 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to PAUL TURNBULL, #94 of 1303 🔗

Yes

87470 nat, replying to nat, 10, #95 of 1303 🔗

Thank you Toby for all the articles you have been posting by lockdown sceptics in Australia, it is much appreciated and I am very glad to know they are around.They have yet to have any affect from what I can see; I am currently in Melbourne and don’t know anyone who will believe anything other than what they see on the news. Too upset to comment on it further at the moment.

This is an article that truly alarmed me –

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump-vaccine-idUSKCN24V3KY

The U.S. government is planning to launch an overwhelming COVID-19 vaccine campaign in November.The campaign will likely be compressed into a short period of time, around four to six weeks, to eliminate any lag between when Americans are alerted to the vaccine and then they can get vaccinated, the official said during a press conference.

There is every indication this will be rolled out globally, with reports that vaccines have already been purchased by governments around the world.

The UK, for example, has already purchased 190 million vaccines, even though the trials have yet to conclude, never mind safety approvals.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839&nbsp ; (last paragraph)

The vaccine push will be supported by a clinical trial conducted at Yale University to assess the effectiveness of various messages about vaccinating to ensure maximum vaccine uptake

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04460703?term=Vaccine&cond=Covid19&cntry=US&draw=2

As you can see in this document, the primary outcome measure of the study is willingness to get the COVID-19 vaccine. The secondary outcome measures include the participants’ confidence in the vaccine, their willingness to persuade others to get vaccinated, their fear of those who have not been vaccinated and the level of social judgment of those who choose not to vaccinate, with the launch of the vaccine.

A decline in infection rates around the world would not be conducive to the efforts to persuade the public to have vaccines . But clearly governments are heavily invested in the prospect of of new cases.

87499 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #97 of 1303 🔗

Makes my head spin

87951 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #98 of 1303 🔗

Operation Warp Speed – sounds like something out of a 1960s kids tv show like Thunderbirds.

“I think it will be a very effective vaccine. That’s my prediction,” Slaoui said. “My personal opinion, based on my experience and the biology of this virus, I think this vaccine is going to be highly efficacious.”

He THINKS?
His PREDICTION??
Very worrying!

87536 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to nat, 9, #99 of 1303 🔗

This is very important information that we all need to digest. No one can complain that we were not warned in advance that this was coming in 2020. For all those who will not be taking the vaccine, we need to prepare for our greatest challenges yet, far worse than anything we have so far experienced with masks. Our ability to function at all in society (i.e. work, purchase or travel) is likely to be stripped away completely.

87601 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Richard O, 3, #100 of 1303 🔗

Not to mention public shaming.

87538 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to nat, 3, #101 of 1303 🔗

Interesting and well-considered article about rushing vaccines into use without proper testing:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/researchers-rush-to-start-moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-without-usual-animal-testing/

87602 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to redbirdpete, 2, #102 of 1303 🔗

Shocking. And effective and inexpensive treatments are banned.

87616 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nat, 1, #103 of 1303 🔗

The propaganda aspect of that roll out was posted towards the end of yesterday on LS ie early thurs am.
Very nasty 10 point summary of reasons to accept it, worth a repost but I don’t have time to and can’t copy’n’past with an Android.

87672 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, 1, #104 of 1303 🔗

Thanks for that, I will have a look for it.

87699 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to nat, 1, #105 of 1303 🔗

You will see there my bet that the UK NHS will never buy vaccine to do a complete, mass, all age range programme. Their Quality of Life Years cost benefit analysis will never come up positive for that. IF a safe , successful vaccine is ever produced, it will likely be offered to the vulnerable, like our flu vaccination is.

87720 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bruno, 6, #106 of 1303 🔗

Unless – as has already been posited, I think in the US? – they realise the vaccine is ‘too much’ for the vulnerable and is likely to result in negative outcomes (and could even kill them). Then they will foist it on the healthy population who will be charged with ‘protecting’ the vulnerable by taking a jab for the team. A little collateral damage will be acceptable among them.

I think we only have to look at the ‘I wear mine to protect you’ mask rhetoric to realise this is a possibility. In the normal world they’d strive for a flu type vaccine. That’s still the most likely scenario. But….. If They discover by doing that they’re likely to to very obviously kill the over 60s in mass numbers that they can’t hide (they’re not in care homes), and they still have millions of doses of vaccine to shift…….

87738 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Bruno, #107 of 1303 🔗

I am not sure I what you mean? According to news reports, including the BBC website I linked to above, the UK govt has already purchased 190 million doses of vaccines.

87957 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nat, 2, #108 of 1303 🔗

We know we don’t really need to be jabbed against covid.
However, they are hellbent on jabbing SOMETHING into us all.

88087 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #109 of 1303 🔗

They have jabbing us for the past five months.

87999 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to nat, #110 of 1303 🔗

That BBC link doesn’t work. Maybe they had to take it down because it was wrong.

88505 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Sylvie, #111 of 1303 🔗

Sorry about that. Thanks for letting me know. Here it is last paragraph
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839
Does anyone know how to edit their comments? I can’t find a way.

88449 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to nat, 1, #112 of 1303 🔗

It hasn’t. It has agreed to purchase them if the vaccine works. Not quite the same thing.

88506 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Sophie123, #113 of 1303 🔗

The BBC article I link to above says

These have been paid for even though it is uncertain which, if any, of the vaccines may prove effective for immunising a nation with 66m people.

I read about this in several different publications, I could find nothing about the purchase. being contingent on safety approval

87984 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Bruno, 1, #114 of 1303 🔗

Sylvie, they have already purchased enough doses to jab the entire population. We aren’t dealing with people that make cost benefit analyses, unfortunately. I think they’ll “offer” it to all of us. The question is how many of us are reluctant and just going along with the whole face mask thing because what the heck, it isn’t really that big of of a deal but a jab in the arm with a hastily “tested” vaccine against a virus that isn’t that threatening … well, it will be interesting to see how many people are prepared to ‘just go along with it’ then. I think it will flush out a fair few people who are what I call closet sceptics but I also see a lot of people who have swallowed the narrative hook, link and sinker. It’s going to be a hell of an end to an extraordinary year. Everyone, buckle up!

87995 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Alison9, #115 of 1303 🔗

No they haven’t. I doubt a dime has hit the table, except for govt contributions to research.What has happened is:

‘The UK government has entered partnerships with BioNtech/Pfizer and Valneva who are developing vaccines to protect against COVID-19. It has also secured early access to treatments containing COVID-19 neutralising antibodies from AstraZeneca, in order to treat those unable to receive vaccines, such as the immunocompromised or elderly.
As a result of these partnerships, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland could have access to enough doses to vaccinate and protect certain priority groups, such as frontline health and social care workers and those at increased health risk.
The government has secured access to three different types of COVID-19 vaccines that are being developed in the UK and abroad, which the UK Business Secretary Alok Sharma said should give the UK the most likely chance of getting access to a safe and effective vaccine at the quickest speed.’
https://www.europeanpharmaceuticalreview.com/news/123998/uk-government-secures-early-access-to-90-million-doses-of-covid-19-vaccines/

88507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Sylvie, #116 of 1303 🔗

The BBC article says ( last paragraph)

These have been paid for even though it is uncertain which, if any, of the vaccines may prove effective for immunising a nation with 66m people.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839

108170 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to nat, #117 of 1303 🔗

But it is wrong. It’s the BBC. Don’t be surprised.

88581 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Sylvie, #118 of 1303 🔗

I hope you’re right Sylvie!

87669 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to nat, 5, #119 of 1303 🔗

Don’t be surprised if online access is severely curtailed to prevent mobilisation of a push back. If you think we are alone now, think again. I fully expect all dissenting voices, web sites, online platforms will be shut down when the vaccine rollout begins in lockstep around the world.

Question is, how will we communicate and coordinate under such restrictions?

87743 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to smurfs, 3, #120 of 1303 🔗

in person? by post?

87855 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to smurfs, #121 of 1303 🔗

Maybe all external means will be stripped away or blocked.

But part of all of this thing-19 is will I consent to die from fear by reacting as if what I fear is coming is already fact?

87960 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Binra, 2, #122 of 1303 🔗

In English?

87959 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to smurfs, 3, #123 of 1303 🔗

Gotta form those local groups asap.

88195 ▶▶▶▶ smurfs, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #124 of 1303 🔗

I agree, local protest groups are the way to go. Just talking about it has its limitations so if we don’t start now we won’t have any momentum when it is sorely needed.

This is the first time in my life I have felt the need to go out and protest, damn the consequences. Failure is not an option for the alternative is not worth contemplating. I am not particularly concerned about my future, it’s my daughter and grandson who still have a full life ahead that I think about. I can’t imagine them living in an open prison system if the globalists get their way. They unfortunately live in Melbourne of all places and we know which way they are going!

Anyway, I live in Ireland and intend to travel up to Dublin a week Saturday to attend the Protest for Change gathering at Customs House. This will be the start of my new found protesting career and will give me the motivation to do something in my local town in Cork, the ‘rebel county’. Who knows how it will pan out but at least I’ll give it a good go.

87982 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to smurfs, 2, #125 of 1303 🔗

Pre-internet, people used to use bulletin board services for communication. The bulletin board would be hosted on a single separate server housed at someone’s home or business. You would then use the telephone lines to dial up the server. You can also use Telnet to connect to some of them through the Internet. Many people my age (60s) used BBSs for years.

I certainly don’t have the technical skills or a server to set up such a service, but I suspect that there are already such services in existence. You just have to find them – which is easier to do now while the internet is still available. Of course, lots of us don’t have landlines anymore, which is a prereq, but there may be other options available that I don’t know about since I haven’t kept up with the field.

88117 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to smurfs, 3, #126 of 1303 🔗

Leaflets. Posters. Graffiti. Word of Mouth.

87802 ▶▶ annie, replying to nat, 3, #127 of 1303 🔗

You’re in Melbourne?
God help you. I mean that quite literally.

87850 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to annie, #128 of 1303 🔗

Thank you !

87892 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to nat, 1, #129 of 1303 🔗

🐑 🐑 🐑 + 💉 💉 💉 = ⚰️ ⚰️ ⚰️

87894 ▶▶ H K, replying to nat, 2, #130 of 1303 🔗

Del Bigtree (google ‘The Highwire’) and Robert F. Kennedy have done some excellent journalism work exposing the safety trials of vaccines. Del won a legal case so the the vaccine tials must now be tested against a saline placebo. The vaccine co’s have tried to manipulate results to make the results look better than they really are (the opposite of how we originally recorded covid deaths).

87913 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to H K, 3, #131 of 1303 🔗

For sure. Robert F. Kennedy’s articles don’t beat around the bush do they ? Essential reading in my opinion.

87479 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 5, #132 of 1303 🔗

One of the best blogs today I must say. Thank you Toby.

In order to fix the grades crisis next week for GCSE, it’s simple.
1. Use the teachers own submitted rank order of candidates ONLY. Teachers should have taken into account t their estimated grades and all other factors in deciding this.
2. Award the grade boundaries per centre as last year, I. E. If a centre got 5% grade As or 9s, similarly this year.
3. Allow centres to appeal whole cohorts ONLY if they can prove this years cohort was significantly better than last.

Too many beaurocrats and too much data adjustment has not helped, though I blame teachers most of all. I am one. Good results = increase in pay. Massive grade inflation. Is unfair to candidates.

87807 ▶▶ annie, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #133 of 1303 🔗

It’s unfair to candidates, honest teachers, honest schools, employers (how can they trust any exam achievement?), universities (ditto) – everybody except the cheats and the corrupt s..ts in government and the exam boards who let it happen
I was a principal examiner for years and fought unremittingly against grade inflation, but with little success. In one paper I saw the threshold mark needed for an A grade drop from 50 to 42 in a couple of years.

87480 philburton, replying to philburton, 4, #134 of 1303 🔗

Has any one done any statistical research in to the change in cases to hospitalisation rate?

For example, if you take the number of identified cases in April & May, and calculate the hospitalisation rate for those cases, then compare against the same date for June & July.

It seems like we are finding 1000s of cases per week, but hospitalisation is far lower. Surely this would assuage fears of a 2nd wave, or might even tell us something about the virility progression of the virus.

87485 ▶▶ philburton, replying to philburton, #135 of 1303 🔗

E.g In April/May, if there were 50,000 cases found and 2000 hospitalisations, then that would be a hospitalisation rate of 4%.

87488 ▶▶ RickH, replying to philburton, 3, #136 of 1303 🔗

The problem is that ‘cases’ are simply people having certain bits of RNA in their system – bits that have only s possible relationship to a virus, let alone an actual infection or illness.

Thus it doesn’t form a firm basis for judging the actual level of infection.

It was never designed for that purpose.

87860 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to RickH, #137 of 1303 🔗

Don’t let truth get in the way of a good story!
/sarc

87508 ▶▶ Christopher Bowyer, replying to philburton, 8, #138 of 1303 🔗

Hi, yes I’ve recently started plotting the hospital admissions per 1000 positive tests,using figures from the coronavirus.data.gov.uk website. I’ve been doing other graphs as well (of NHS England & ONS deaths etc) & sending them to Hector Drummond to post on his website, but what with holidays etc so far he hasn’t been able to upload any of my latest graphs, which include the admission rate graphs.

I’ve uploaded the latest graph here comment image ?dl=0 As you can see, the hospitalisation rate was fairly steady up until late June, but since then has steadily fallen by 75%!

Edit – if you click the “comment image” bit, it does take you to the graph I’ve uploaded to dropbox – even though it looks like a broken link!

87510 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Christopher Bowyer, 5, #139 of 1303 🔗

Thanks for this – I think that is quite a powerful graph and ought to be wheeled out whenever people fret about “cases” – a “case” now has very different consequences for healthcare than a “case” back in March/April, and we should treat the numbers accordingly, weighted in some way.

87521 ▶▶▶▶ Christopher Bowyer, replying to Julian, 4, #140 of 1303 🔗

Thanks Julian, please feel free to use/post the graph anywhere you think it might be useful – and the same goes for everyone else! I’m not on twitter, and I’ve avoided Facebook since getting abused by lockdown zealot now-ex friends back in March/April, so the only place my graphs have been published is on Hector Drummond’s website – but if they help, please do share them!

87838 ▶▶▶ Marvin42, replying to Christopher Bowyer, 2, #141 of 1303 🔗

Excellent analysis. Glad you didn’t include the ‘suspected’ cases which Wales count as admissions which get fed into the UK total on the Govt. Dashboard and then onto the headlines of the MSM… they are so high they sometimes exceed (on a daily basis) the total number of infections found in the whole of the country in all settings – often doubling the UK daily admissions total (despite only linked to only 6% of the population).

I just cannot understand why our official numbers (UK) are so diverse from one country to the next – well paid number crunchers wouldn’t get away with this sort of thing in the private sector – it would be P45 time!

87966 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Christopher Bowyer, 2, #142 of 1303 🔗

Thanks Christopher. I’d missed your posts!

Considering there’s so much more testing going on, your graph is extremely eloquent!

88113 ▶▶▶▶ Christopher Bowyer, replying to Cheezilla, #143 of 1303 🔗

Thanks Cheezilla, that’s really kind of you 🙂 Hector’s now back from his holidays, and I sent him the Week 31 graphs on Tuesday afternoon, so they will hopefully be up on his site before too long!

I’ve uploaded the graph of hospital admissions here comment image ?dl=0 and the graph of lab-confirmed tests here comment image ?dl=0 so you can see how they compare. The hospital admissions are decreasing exponentially, as are the positive tests until late June – but then the tests start rising while the hospital admissions keep falling.

87481 Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, 8, #144 of 1303 🔗

The two sheep sign … well, here in Torquay we get plagued by complete nonsense from our local council like “two Hercule Poirot walking sticks”, “one Basil Fawlty”.

87526 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Miss Owl, 8, #145 of 1303 🔗

Oh God…jaunty humour whist our civil liberties are destroyed.

87560 ▶▶ InfiniteDissent, replying to Miss Owl, 4, #146 of 1303 🔗

I’m pretty sure it’s a joke image used by other sceptics as a criticism of the sheep-like mentality, not an official sign put up by local authorities.

You can buy the same image on a T-shirt from Carl Vernon here:

https://teespring.com/socially-distanced-sheep?tsmac=store&tsmic=official-carl-vernon&pid=377&cid=100074

I don’t know whether Carl Vernon actually created the image himself or is just using it from other sources.

88587 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Miss Owl, #147 of 1303 🔗

I thought you might be winding us up but I’ve checked it out and they did tweet that about Basil Fawlty!

87506 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to swedenborg, 5, #149 of 1303 🔗

Fauci is a curious old cove. He will be 80 this year . He reminds me of an 80 year old doctor I once worked with ; rather set in his ways, long since given up reflecting on any changes , prone to errors, slow and not really very good but given a lot of slack because he had become a part of the furniture .

87530 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #150 of 1303 🔗

I was amazed Fauci was still in such a senior position after so many administration changes and his age. Then when you look into his background and contacts he suddenly looks pretty untouchable. How much he will benefits financially from the crisis via his personal shareholdings and patents are also far from clear.

87561 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Darryl, 1, #151 of 1303 🔗

It crosses my mind tgat stimulants may be used by certain super human ever lasting polticals. There are a few suspicious ‘out liers’.

87861 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Basics, 2, #152 of 1303 🔗

Why bring in new blood when you can get er new blood!

87579 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #153 of 1303 🔗

US and especially Fauci doesn’t believe anything unless it is done in the US. He could never swallow the national humiliation that the French discovered HIV and not his disciple Gallo who wanted the patent in testing to get rich but never discovered the virus. They did not trust any non US PCR test for C-19 until after several blunders they finally got it. Many articles on T cells immunity published outside US but this one from California. And most importantly even the Director of NIH,Collins, wrote recently an article about T cells immunity in C-19.

87622 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #154 of 1303 🔗

Fauci ‘discovered’ that AIDS could be passed by casual social interaction putting the frighteners on Gays, their families and friends for years in the process.

87874 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to karenovirus, 1, #155 of 1303 🔗

Such a kindly demeanour – he could be your Godfather.

Protecting the Model, of the invested Establishment, for the Protection of the people, may look like a racket, but its really one big Family.

There is a book by Ghislaine Lanctot – The Medical Mafia – that would likely find a much more willing and appreciative readership today.

In checking I had her name spelled right I met this link:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/canadian-doctor-h1n1-vaccination-a-eugenics-weapon-for-massive-targeted-reduction-of-the-world-population/14312

Don’t let the extreme (?) wording of the link deny you the wider view.

87975 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Binra, 2, #156 of 1303 🔗

“I am emerging from a long silence on the subject of vaccination, because I feel that, this time, the stakes involved are huge. The consequences may spread much further than anticipated,” writes Lanctôt, who believes the A(H1N1) virus will be used in a pandemic concocted and orchestrated by the WHO, an international organization that serves military, political and industrial interests.
Lanctôt warns that the elite and their minions will introduce a compulsory vaccination that will contain a deadly virus and this will be used specifically as a eugenics weapon for “massive and targeted reduction of the world population.” Moreover, a pandemic will also be used to further establish martial law and a police state, according to Lanctôt, and activate concentration camps “built to accommodate the rebellious” and eventually transfer power from all nations to a single United Nations government and thus fulfill the sinister plans of the New World Order.

Hmmm. I was just suggesting this might be the real 2nd wave a couple of hours ago! When Uncle Bills says, gleefully, that we won’t miss the next one…….

87972 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, 1, #157 of 1303 🔗

Is this something to do with supporting the new vaccines? Fauci is up to the neck with Uncle Bill so I can’t believe this is as innocent as it looks.

87483 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #158 of 1303 🔗

Over the last 1-2 weeks I have been re-reading Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago and the following passages are very, very pertinent and relevant to the insane times we live in:

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good, or else that it’s a well- considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is the nature of the human being to seek a justification for his actions.

Ideology- that is what gives evildoing its long sought justification and gives the evil doer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps make his act seem good instead of bad in his own and others’ eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honours.

We have to condemn publicly the very idea that some people have the right to oppress others. In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations. It is for this reason, and not because of the “weakness of indoctrinational work,” that they are growing up “indifferent.” Young people are acquiring the conviction that foul deeds are never punished on earth, that they always bring prosperity.

87511 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #159 of 1303 🔗

I see the lockdownistas and the mask zealots very much in the second and third quote – they think they’re doing good but in reality they are very much an active participant in this evil. We have to resist them at all costs, even doing one thing like telling people that they’re exempt from muzzle wearing when we see them in obvious distress and helping them find ways to get a lanyard or boycotting companies and writing to them why, etc.Perhaps through our words and deeds, we will get through other people especially the young that they have a duty to resist and that we will never be forgiven if this tyranny is allowed to embed itself.

87810 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #160 of 1303 🔗

It’s the young that are the greatest zombies. Masked, trembling, cowardly, hopeless.

87925 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #161 of 1303 🔗

Agree. Unfortuately you get the same in the age group that ought to know better as well.

88448 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #162 of 1303 🔗

They are not shown Solzhenitsyn, especially not at University, too dangerous.

87891 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #163 of 1303 🔗

The fear-believed evil in our own heart and mind splits the mind.
Fear of hatred within is condemned to seek love ‘without’. But masking in virtue only hollows and lays waste – while seeking and finding scapegoats and enemies and threats amidst diversionary strategies of a masked agenda driven by fear of evil within.

When we cast out in story we create the script.
The projection of the hated as a means to get rid of it or to attack and deny it in others is the way to KEEP it or persist in a split mind while claiming moral necessity or justified grievance.
Jesus said ‘resist ye not evil’.
He meant – do not become defined and polarised by what you hate and fear.
He says a lot that becomes recognisable to a willingness to heal a split mind.
But it is our recognition at the heart that is key – not in appeals to authority.

Language can be used differenty – and more so in translation.

I see that what we resist, persists.
And that what we neglect or leave unused or unchosen, fades from non use.

The basis from which to accept a choice or decision wisely is wholeness.
Joy aligns in wholeness.
By aligning in our joy, is a capacity of discernment available.
But when one part of a mind is battling or coercive upon another – there is no free attention and the currently active narrative frames the response of a narrative reinforcement.

87487 Will Jones, replying to Will Jones, 7, #164 of 1303 🔗

Allister Heath’s piece is brilliant but he does seem to misunderstand that the Swedish strategy is also about reaching herd immunity:

“Politicians can react in one of three ways to a pandemic. They can do nothing, and allow the disease to rip until herd immunity is reached. Quite rightly, no government has pursued this policy, out of fear of mass deaths and total social and economic collapse. The second approach involves imposing proportionate restrictions to facilitate social distancing, banning certain sorts of gatherings while encouraging and informing the public. The Swedes pursued a version of this centrist strategy: there was a fair bit of compulsion, but also a focus on retaining normal life and keeping schools open. The virus was taken very seriously, but there was no formal lockdown. Tegnell is one of the few genuine heroes of this crisis: he identified the correct trade-offs.”

There is also still a widespread failure to appreciate that the epidemic in many badly hit countries including England had peaked and gone into decline well before lockdown or even much social distancing began, as Prof Carl Heneghan has pointed out. This is presumably due to already in mid March reaching the herd immunity threshold. The point is we did let it rip. The lockdown was far too late to help.

87503 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Will Jones, 1, #165 of 1303 🔗

There is also still a widespread failure to appreciate that the epidemic in many badly hit countries including England had peaked and gone into decline well before lockdown or even much social distancing began, as Prof Carl Heneghan has pointed out . “

Was thinking about this a day or two ago. My recollection is that very early on the figures suggested this – I floated it on Peter Hitchens’ blog in around mid-April I think, based on the decline in death numbers being too soon to be a result of the lockdown.

That fact didn’t get as much attention as it should, but I seem to recall you were on it early as well.

Then I remember there were a couple of studies questioning whether the time to death numbers were wrong for Europe (it should be longer), and this was used to cast doubt n the argument that the downturn was actually before the lockdowm, but more recently I’ve seen no references to those studies and the early downturn seems generally unquestioned. Is that correct, or just a reflection of my own closer attention to sceptical opinions?

What happened to those studies suggesting longer times to death? Or am I misremembering how it all went?

87555 ▶▶▶ Will Jones, replying to Mark, 2, #166 of 1303 🔗

Yes, this has been clear from as soon as the deaths peaked in mid-April. Not sure about those studies though I have heard the same. But if the interval is longer then that puts the peak even further before lockdown.

87640 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Will Jones, 1, #167 of 1303 🔗

Sorry, mis-wrote, meant shorter, obviously.

Just dug through my messages and found the studies in question, together with an explanatory note I copied that someone (possibly you, or someone using a similar name here) wrote here back in early May, I think:

The survey ‘Features of 16,749 hospitalized UK patients with COVID-19 using the ISARIC WHO Clinical Characterization Protocol’ finds average 4 days of symptoms pre-admission and 7 days hospital stay (all patients, both deceased and surviving). The incubation period averages 5-6 days – see the Covid-19 wiki article for references. Also in NYC the death curve lags the admission curve by 5 days. The report ‘Characteristics of COVID-19 patients dying in Italy’ found average 10 days between symptoms and death. Put this data together and you get average around 16 days from infection to death corroborated from a number of sources .”

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1

https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/Report-COVID-2019_20_marzo_eng.pdf

87703 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will Jones, replying to Mark, 2, #168 of 1303 🔗

Right, yes, that was me. I put this to Nic Lewis the other day and he came back with a helpful comment:

Unfortunately the first paper you cite gives no information about the time in hospital for those who died, so it cannot be used for estimating the time from admission to death. One commenter asked “What was the median number of days between admission and death”. The reply from the senior author was “We removed this value as it is not informative when many patients have not completed their admission.”

I’m not sure that the apparent lag between hospital admission and death curves is a fair measure of the mean delay between admission and death given that the distribution thereof is long-tailed.

I’m familiar with the Italian report you mention. You say it found an average of 10 days between symptoms and death. That is not correct. It found the median to be 10 to 12 days (depending on the date of the report). For a long tailed distribution, the average (mean) is somewhat higher than the median.

I think there was probably considerable variation between different European countries in the distribution of the time from symptom onset to death. One of the peer reviewers of the Flaxman et al paper, which used a distribution with a mean of 18.8 (changed during revision to 17.8) days, commented that European data suggested this was too low, being “smaller than preliminary estimates available from hospitalization data in Europe (about 5-6 days from onset to hospitalization, at least 2 weeks in the hospital).

It is quite possible that the time between symptom onset and death was atypically low in March and April in Italy, but I think due more to the hospital system being overwhelmed in the worst affected areas rather than to a higher proportion of more vulnerable people being infected early on. There was little change in the median age of cumulative diagnosed Italian patients between mid-April and mid-July, the median age at death increased slightly, and there not much change in the proportion of dying patients with different numbers of co-morbidities.
https://www.nicholaslewis.org/why-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-is-reached-much-earlier-than-thought-update/

He says the interval is more like 24 days, and that seems to be what Imperial College use as well. I must admit I still don’t really understand why the death curves lagged the admissions curves by about a week if the interval is more like two weeks, but the statisticians seem to think it makes sense given the other data.

88286 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Will Jones, 1, #169 of 1303 🔗

OK thanks.That discussion meant I backed off using that point for a while and depended more heavily on other data from eg Germany to make the point that lockdowns came after the downturn in infections. But as time went on and I didn’t see them used against the point, I assumed they had either been withdrawn or superceded. More recently I have taken the view that it’s pretty uncontroversial now that the infections turned down before lockdown, here and in other countries.

87520 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Will Jones, 6, #170 of 1303 🔗

Let it rip through to reach herd immunity? Social Darwinism?

Haiti did that. No lockdown(a few days in May,they gave up). Nothing.
Very quick wash through.No mass deaths. Haiti is probably as bad as it has always been.Not worse.This is a much more complex issue.

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1292486892823470084/photo/1

87998 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Will Jones, 1, #171 of 1303 🔗

Which is why Whitty and Vallance delayed lockdown for a long as they could. They were doing the right thing at the time. They turned into Tweedledum and Tweedlevee after the lockdown.

87497 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 25, #172 of 1303 🔗

What do people think about creating local branches of Lockdown Sceptics? We could meet for real, and give each other confidence and encouragement in talking to coronaphobes, as well as sharing, maybe, things like strategies, handouts and resources for talking to/giving to frightened people, as well as providing emotional support, handshakes, and even, where appropriate, hugs to each other (and that’s from someone who was not the hugging type, but I am now). I’m in the south west.

87501 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Aremen, 3, #173 of 1303 🔗

That’s what I was trying to do with “A Bit Fishy” . Trying to get locals together to change their friends, families, neighbours, etc minds one by one.

87505 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Aremen, 9, #174 of 1303 🔗

Given how reasonable the discourse is here compared to the comment trails on the newspapers, I think I’d definitely get on with a lot of the people here. And I’m not generally that sociable…

87516 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #175 of 1303 🔗

I feel the same.

87517 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #176 of 1303 🔗

Agree with this!

87671 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #177 of 1303 🔗

Ditto!

87507 ▶▶ nat, replying to Aremen, 20, #178 of 1303 🔗

Coronaphobes -I love it ! much better than bedwetters, I think, more precise.
comment image

87514 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to nat, 9, #179 of 1303 🔗

Also, more tactful. I do not like the term bedwetters, as it is mocking people with continence problems. And, frankly, as someone who initially bought into the government’s Project Fear, I wasn’t far from shitting myself in the early stages.

87544 ▶▶▶▶ tonys, replying to Aremen, 8, #180 of 1303 🔗

One term I really do not think is helpful in any context is ‘sheeple’ it is both arrogant and patronising , there may be many reasons someone does not share your views, but lumping all such people together in the same woolly flock does not help your argument along one little bit .

87566 ▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to tonys, 8, #181 of 1303 🔗

Valid point, Tonys. Apart from that, as a farm vet’s daughter it is also insulting to sheep, which in general are more intelligent and discerning than people think! (They wouldn’t approve of masks either, because sheep rely quite heavily on face recognition to distinguish individuals from each other – applies to other sheep, people, dogs and some other species they have been tested with)!!!

87815 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to tonys, #182 of 1303 🔗

Sorry, folks, but this is a sceptics’ site and we will call our enemies what we bloody well like.
What you call them, here and elsewhere, is equally your business and I won’t quarrel with it.

87954 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to tonys, #183 of 1303 🔗

Pejorative terms serve private mythology and don’t serve addressing the issue truly. (But divert to a blame agenda).
Consciously discerned language would do a lot to clarify and unify our minds – but the emotional demand to let off steam is the lack of a better option – or the indulgence of a sense of temporary reality adjustment in which the frustrated or intimidated one venets their splee amidst company that sings in the same choir.

I prefer true witness – that can of course be open to question and dialogue.
Why be framed in the narrative of false or erroneous assertions? – IE as an ‘anti’ or ‘denier’. I don’t see the support for, and the substance of, the covid-19 assertions, but I see a LOT of noise targeted to induce emotional investment by reaction – that used somewhat trusted institutions to persist in its ‘reconditioning’ that for the most part are still doing so.

The ‘political’ agenda of which has a lot of support from the identity set in managed fear and protection.
The state is a PPP under global jurisdiction. But ‘partnership’ implies free agreement rather than an offer you cant refuse.

88122 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to tonys, #184 of 1303 🔗

It’s a useful shorthand for discussing among ourselves. As you say, a tad patronising to use to someone’s face.

87938 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Aremen, #185 of 1303 🔗

Who lives the world in form but has terror stalking at his heart?

When a feared shadow is revealed harmless we laugh in relief and release – but the fear is not undone.

For many here it shifted from a virus to a top-down agenda of deceit and coercion that has set in motion (or removed the chocks) to a crash that has unprecedented change and challenge. Although near extinctions are not unprecedented nor collapse of civilisations.

88066 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Aremen, #186 of 1303 🔗

Well done for seeing the light.

87519 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to nat, 14, #187 of 1303 🔗

I am not keen on the bedwetter term myself, as it is unlikely to change any minds. Those in positions of power deserve our vitriol, arguably so do the most aggressive lockdown and mask zealots, but the neutral/gullible/apathetic masses we should probably try a less ad hominem approach on.

87524 ▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Julian, 15, #188 of 1303 🔗

Agree. We are not going to win anybody over by calling them a bedwetter. Coronaphobes, hopefully, in increasing numbers, will find their way to this site. If they find their fears being mocked they will turn away. If we show compassion towards those millions of people who have been done over by our government then they will warm to us and our messages.

87532 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Aremen, #189 of 1303 🔗

A phobia is an irrational fear. I therefore doubt that bedwetters will take kindly to that term.

87592 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Sally, 7, #190 of 1303 🔗

Yes, I agree with your criticism of me! I’d had that thought myself. Calling someone a coronaphobe is just as unlikely to win them over as calling them a bedwetter. Maybe slightly less mocking. I’ll try and think of a suitable term.

Moving sideways from this – and I think readers will like this – my son has come up with a great response if he is challenged for not wearing a mask. He intends to tell the challenger that he suffers from ovinaphobia: the fear of sheep.

87534 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Aremen, 10, #191 of 1303 🔗

Even coronaphobe is condescending. Don’t forget that these people are the majority and so encompass educated, decent people in the main. To be called a coronaphobe would be insulting and may put them off.

If you want to go out and change people’s minds then you must aim to change the low hanging fruit first not the staunch believers of the official narrative.

There will always be a loose edge like stripping wallpaper. They will already have a few questions. Answer those and they may be won over.

The more who are won over then the more who go home and seed doubt with their partner or work colleague. Then they in turn become curious, etc, etc.

We MUST change the minds of the ordinary people one by one ourselves. The MSM will never do it until they fear the people. Like that comedy (Bananas) where the news reporter had the photo on his wall and flipped it around to show whatever leader took power that day.

87581 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lockdown Truth, 17, #192 of 1303 🔗

I agree with all this, LT, and the above comments. Slagging off people who have fallen victim to the constant fearmongering will not help us. Talking to them as human beings just may help them start to see the truth. This is our task – talk to people as much as we can and spread the word.

On that subject, I might mention that I absolutely hate going in shops now and I really have to nerve myself to go on a bus. I do not in the least fear people having a go at me for not wearing a mask but I find the sight of all the blank, faceless shoppers and passengers very depressing if not enraging and I have to restrain myself from having a go at them for being collaborators with the encroaching totalitarianism.

All my instincts are to stay at home, order online, avoid the hell that ordinary life has become. We are compromising a bit by avoiding going to the largest town in the area and asking for a home delivery of some items from 2 local shops but we’ll continue to brave other local shops and supermarkets, modelling our maskless state as much as we can and as long as we’re able.

87590 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #193 of 1303 🔗

It’s intolerable isn’t it. A sea of pointlessly masked up compliant fools, everywhere. Shopping was never that great but now, well. Why bother. I bought shoelaces on ebay yesterday. I have avoided town since just before face-nappy day. I might give it a go when I feel up for a fight. However that said, there is NOTHING I want from any of the shops in town. They are all crap.

87603 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Two-Six, 11, #194 of 1303 🔗

This crap has definitely stopped any frittering away of money we used to do, not to mention it’s knocked-back what was a bit of a cafe habit when we were out shopping! It’s the businesses I feel sorry for – the decline of real shops will continue and the online giants will profit. Plus, we see far fewer people now we’re not regularly on the buses and in shops which I believe is really bad for both our physical and mental health. (Mind you, we do walk and cycle more….)

88081 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #195 of 1303 🔗

If these shops don’t make it clear in their mask demand notices that they understand there are exemptions, they’ll deserve to go bust.

87610 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #196 of 1303 🔗

I feel the same. As I’ve said here before, I’m currently taking the soft option and wearing a snood when doing essential shopping. I’m not going to go into detail, but I’ve never been mentally ill in my life before, but lockdown has damaged me seriously, and I’m trying to manage my recovery carefully, so I don’t want to risk a setback by getting into a confrontation. I’m not a coward and will gladly take people on (verbally), but I would anxiously ruminate for days over such challenges. So, I know wrongly, I feel embarrassed for myself and somewhat ashamed, as I did last night in Tesco, wandering round the shop with my face covered. I imagine people thinking “look at that tosser, just like all the rest”, but, of course, I know rationally that they are not. For one thing, I’m over-estimating my own significance! The specific reason why I’m responding to your comment is that I too see the faceless masses as corroborators and unthinking, but I reply to my own depressing thought by telling myself that they are just playing the game: almost all of them pull off their masks the moment they step out of the shops. They just don’t want to risk a £100 fine. Personally, I don’t much mind wearing the snood. I bought it for a winter trip to Iceland (the country) and I kid myself I’m still there when I use it. I get more upset by others wearing them for the above reasons. I’m in the south west, and, pleasingly, I noticed in the very quiet Tesco last night about four people not masked. That’s progress. I also noticed the store manager constantly fiddling with his mask.

87625 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Aremen, 8, #197 of 1303 🔗

I sympathise with your predicament. Nothing is easy in this situation. I know several people who don’t want to wear a mask but they go along with it because they don’t want a fine or don’t want confrontation etc. Unfortunately, this is a cop-out. If more people don’t stand up to this, the oppression will only get worse.

As a way out, I strongly recommend losing the snood and getting an exemption badge or lanyard. You have no legal need to explain why you’re exempt even in the unlikely event of being asked by a police officer. Nobody else can legally ask you and it’s illegal for anyone to challenge someone not wearing a mask.

Once you’ve done it once, it gets easier. The only horrible thing is seeing all the others!

87803 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #198 of 1303 🔗

I appreciate your suggestion. I’ve seriously considered an exemption badge, but that feels a bit like buying into the farce, accepting the government’s rules. As someone else said here, though, if the rules are stupid, then have no qualms about abusing them. I suspect, however, that the rules on exemption have been deliberately written vaguely to allow anybody to ignore/circumvent them. The gov.uk website says “where putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress”, so I certainly qualify for that one. As I said though, I’m just not up for confrontation just now in my fragile state. I really don’t know.

87818 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Aremen, 5, #199 of 1303 🔗

Do what you can.
Be free in your own mind. Everything else follows from that.

88091 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Aremen, 3, #200 of 1303 🔗

Aremen, I found your comment very touching and I totally get where you are coming from. I nearly lost it mentally when I knew the mandatory gags were going to happen. I stocked up on shopping so I wouldn’t have to go out as I knew the first couple of weeks of this would be when the zealots would be about. My first muzzle fee shop was nerve racking but fine and it’s got easier since. Today, I breezed in and answered with a smiley ‘No thanks, I don’t wear them!’

87635 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #201 of 1303 🔗

I know how you feel. I have been avoiding non-essential shopping since 15 June but the mandatory muzzling has just hardened it. I have also been avoiding museums, art galleries and heritage sites, in fact I’ve just written to both the British Museum (where I am a member) and the British Library(where I am a reader) informing them of my boycott. Funny as I work in a museum as well and I do feel sorry for our visitors especially those I see obviously in distress and very uncomfortable. What really makes me angry though are children being muzzled and I really shudder to think what damaged is being done to them and to be honest, I won’t be surprised when they wake up and they turn on the very people who betrayed them – their parents and society at large.

87732 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #202 of 1303 🔗

Yes, children in muzzles: Cruel and heartless.

87930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #203 of 1303 🔗

Our society will never be forgiven for that.

87612 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #204 of 1303 🔗

I agree , but I am not having much success changing people’s minds. It’s helpful when fellow LS post their success stories here.

87806 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to nat, 8, #205 of 1303 🔗

my success story from yesterday was first weighing out and collecting my vegetables from out local organic community farm veg collection space without a muzzle (we have ridiculously been asked to wear them, in a barn!) but then I just stood there by the entrance and smiled at people as they approached and waited their turn (only 3 allowed in at present.also ridiculous), almost everyone took off their mask to smile and talk. A few asked if they needed to wear a mask. I responded with ‘only if you want to. I didn’t’. All of the people who asked then felt bolstered enough to not wear one. I think most people just want to stay on the right side of the rules, don’t want to upset others and maybe haven’t given it any critical thought?

88130 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, #206 of 1303 🔗

‘Educated and decent’ perhaps, but they have allowed and encouraged a fascist takeover.

When speaking of them, the term is ‘Fuck ’em”. When speaking to them, obviously a more civilised approach gets better results.

88019 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, #207 of 1303 🔗

We simply need a term to symbolise “them” as opposed to “us”. “Us” is simple – we are lockdown sceptics.

I suppose non-sceptics is inoffensive and could work?

On the other hand, while many of the non-sceptics are genuinely scared because they have been successfully brainwashed and haven’t had the good fortune to discover alternative sources of trustworthy information, plenty of them are positively revelling in the drama of it all and deserve every derogatory term we can throw at them.

87962 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Julian, #208 of 1303 🔗

Name calling will help its targets justify denying credibility to the witness, messenger or evidence. But only if they want to seek and find all the justifications for persisting in their current state.
Name calling operates a masking in virtue – as the ‘judge’.
Narrative competitions run polarised identities.
Those who frame the dominant narrative farm the energy of such human batteries. Currently ‘populism and globalism’.
Name calling that is adopted and used as currency operates a ‘mind capture’. Not unlike hacking the unwary by back-door exploits so as to set up a bot-net to activate as needed.

87797 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to nat, 2, #209 of 1303 🔗

Aren’t they more “coronaphiles” as they are loving really being able to bully people about it. From what I can see it’s mainly the FBPE brigade and Europhiles using this for their own agenda, as they believe destroying the economy mean it’s more likely that our only option will be to rejoin the EU again so that the economy recovers.

87871 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to JohnB, 3, #210 of 1303 🔗

Coronafile- I like it, as you say for the bullies, the enforcers, the corona Karens. I think it’s possible to be both a coronafile and a coronaphobic at the same time; those ones in the supermarket queue giving the corona death stare: don’t stand so close to me, get back there on your corona floor spot

87854 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nat, 1, #211 of 1303 🔗

Public Health people are phobia driven neurotics.

88004 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nat, 1, #212 of 1303 🔗

Love the pic!

88187 ▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to nat, 1, #213 of 1303 🔗

‘The New Normals,’ as suggested by a writer at Off Guardian.

87642 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Aremen, #214 of 1303 🔗

sounds good Aremen – i’m in Bristol – but can travel (have campervan and can go wherever)

87716 ▶▶▶ hat man, replying to Sue, #215 of 1303 🔗

I’d go for this idea. I’m in Berkshire, wife also a sceptic, and we’d be happy to meet up with other like-minded people within reasonable distance. Also another scepticla couple up the road from us would probably take part.

87886 ▶▶▶▶ hat man, replying to hat man, 1, #216 of 1303 🔗

Cardiff, Bristol, Berkshire so far, allso ‘south-west’, though not sure how far SW. Suppose we meet up somewhere just off the M4?

88098 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to hat man, #217 of 1303 🔗

I’m in the south west too.

88305 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to hat man, #218 of 1303 🔗

Somerset..looks like there’s something about the south west and scepticism!

88197 ▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Sue, #219 of 1303 🔗

Yo. Bath. Have wheels.

87735 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Aremen, #220 of 1303 🔗

Yes please

87798 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Aremen, #221 of 1303 🔗

great idea. I would definitely be up for that.

87820 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Aremen, #222 of 1303 🔗

I would be up for that – great idea. I’m in Cardiff.

88003 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, 1, #223 of 1303 🔗

Look at KBF forum. We’re in the middle of getting the West Yorkshire people together. So far, we’ve found a suitable daytime venue. Waiting for people to respond now so we can set a date …….

Look up your local area. https://www.keepbritainfree.com/forum/kbf-local

88043 ▶▶▶ hat man, replying to Cheezilla, #224 of 1303 🔗

Thanks for that. However, nothing in Berkshire so far, it seems. I’d have to start one. OK, someone has to.

88062 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Aremen, #225 of 1303 🔗

Great idea – linking up with the Keep Britain Free supporters.

88410 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lili, #226 of 1303 🔗

It is indeed. I spend more time here, this site is unique. But the kbf got the local groups thing going first, and here in Sussex it is going well.

88393 ▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Aremen, #227 of 1303 🔗

Good idea. I’m in Wiltshire and would be honoured to shake your hand. We have to fight back.

87502 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #228 of 1303 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078949v1.full.pdf

“The Chinese version of the RT-PCR test had a conspicuous rate of false negative results, likely missing between 15% and 29% of patients with COVID-19. For a patient with a prior probability of COVID-19 greater than 18%, at least two negative test results would be needed to lower the chances of COVID-19 below 5%. Caution is advised in generalizing these findings to other versions of the RT-PCR test that are being used in diverse geographic regions”

I think Drosten’s test in Germany and other current ones all have problems with sensitivity although not of the magnitude as in the Chinese tests. New Zealand and Faroe Islands all require two negative tests to leave the quarantine. Also in clinical practice during the pandemic, clinicians never relied on one neg PCR test in a typical C-19 case and always took a second PCR test to rule out C-19.
The interesting question, reading this now old paper from April,is that the Chinese missed 20 % of the infections. Really believe that they have extinguished C-19?

87509 ▶▶ Sally, replying to swedenborg, 1, #229 of 1303 🔗

No, but we already knew that China – just like every other country – has had many undocumented infections. That’s one of the things serology studies tell us. China probably missed at least 90% of the infections.

87515 Will, replying to Will, 22, #230 of 1303 🔗

Really heartened to see the stock of the excellent Professor Heneghan rising in the MSM. The revision of the death toll still over exaggerates people who have died “from” rather than “with” covid but it is good news that people might be beginning to realise that the criteria for registering deaths related to covid vary enormously from country to country and the figures are completely unreliable. The article in the Telegraph about false positives is an excellent piece of clear journalism that made it clear and explicable to my ten year old son how testing is unreliable when done in such high numbers with so little actual virus left.

87525 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Will, 19, #231 of 1303 🔗

The governments all over remind me of children who were deprived of playing with new toys: they got a new toy, now they just can’t put it down and it’s the only toy they’ve got!

Clinical practice is out of the window altogether: you don’t test people for a disease unless they present with signs or symptoms of that disease. That’s the end of it!

87533 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to IMoz, 22, #232 of 1303 🔗

If the virus is so deadly, why do the government need to test over a hundred thousand people a day who are not ill in order to find cases?

87539 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #233 of 1303 🔗

Indeed—so deadly that you need to have a sophisticated test to determine whether you actually have it!

87554 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #234 of 1303 🔗

If you only tested people who were ill in hospital you would just be proving that the disease is almost gone as the numbers are falling off a cliff.

Testing allows them to create the narrative of a second wave.

Testing will also be used to conflate flu and Covid come November.

87582 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #235 of 1303 🔗

Actually, it doesn’t look like they are conflating colds and flu with covid in the official stats currently. Thankfully.

87665 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #236 of 1303 🔗

If the disease has simply disappeared then the politicians can’t take credit for “beating” it; indeed it will make it even more explicit that the Swedes were right all along..

87634 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, #237 of 1303 🔗

Autopilot and wilful confirmation bias. You’ve got a narrative – God forbid it’s a fiction.

87662 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #238 of 1303 🔗

And why are scientists advocating deliberately infecting people with the disease to test a vaccine? As for the new nonsense about long term impacts, obviously none of these people have ever had a proper, lose a stone and a half dose of the flu…

88400 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Will, #239 of 1303 🔗

You bring up a good point. Those vaccines might end up creating another virus or a new wave of infections different than Covid-19. We must refuse all attempts to vaccinate us. A categorical no way José.

88445 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #240 of 1303 🔗

Because they love to pretend that they are concerned with your well being and wasting your tax monies at the same time.

87546 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Will, 3, #241 of 1303 🔗

What is slowly becoming apparent is that for all the pomp and circumstance of scientific theory, scientific reality is a lot more ‘ugly’ and down to earth.

One being: If you don’t have the right tools to measure stuff don’t be saying you know things when you don’t.

87629 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 1, #242 of 1303 🔗

It’s even simpler : know what you’re measuring.

Such as : don’t assume that strings of RNA indicate a viral infection.

87817 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Will, #243 of 1303 🔗

He’s great. I sent him an encouraging email the other day and got a reply!

87904 ▶▶ H K, replying to Will, 4, #244 of 1303 🔗

The Telegraph is one of the very few papers that is actually trying to challenge the official narrative!
Sky News Australia (Alan Jones) has been really good too!

87527 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 13, #245 of 1303 🔗

The madhouse in going into overdrive in New Zealand. If you want to see a real life horror film watch St Jacinda in action. All covid+ people are moved into ” quaratine sites ” with their close family members.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=223078

87543 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Peter Thompson, 16, #246 of 1303 🔗

This is the only logical conclusion when you set a “one life is too many” approach to a virus. Jacinda has set the terms and been lauded for it in the MSM but now she and the New Zealand people have to live with the long-term implications of such a simplistic approach.

87557 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Achilles, 3, #247 of 1303 🔗

I wonder what NZ’s ‘flu mortality is at present…

87588 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Achilles, 18, #248 of 1303 🔗

Saving lives at all costs is utterly immoral and unnatural, and has never been what human societies and civilisations have done throughout the whole of history. Plus it doesn’t work, making it doubly immoral.

What’s happening in NZ is pure evil.

87822 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, 1, #249 of 1303 🔗

Spending the rest of eternity giving terrified glances over their shoulders.

87541 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 10, #250 of 1303 🔗

Of course it is obvious now that HandyCock’s decision to enforce masks in shops was based on what looks like a slower declining death toll, if we are to give him any credit for anything (please redirect your rotten tomatoes!)

But now it looks insipidly stupid

87589 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to mhcp, 3, #251 of 1303 🔗

I thought it was all and only about making people feel safer to shop. I am sure BJ said so.

87618 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to DressageRider, 9, #252 of 1303 🔗

He gave two reasons when announced to the HoC.

One was a weasil worded argument that some evidence now exists that they may possibly reduce transmision. Maybe.

The other was, as you say, to increase confidence in people using the high street. They probably had an Imperial College computer model showing that 500,000 extra people would go to the local shops rather than buy online if the law was introduced. Unfortunately, due to a bug, the model crashed when trying to calculate the number of people who decided to no longer bother. So they just assumed it would be zero.

87639 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DressageRider, 7, #253 of 1303 🔗

Actually, one moment’s thought would have seen that as a monumentaly stupid hypothesis : widen use of a symbol of fear to reassure people!

88079 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #254 of 1303 🔗

Hence proof that it’s a psy-op!

87768 ▶▶▶ microdave, replying to DressageRider, 4, #255 of 1303 🔗

I thought it was all and only about making people feel safer to shop

But both my sister and a near neighbour have said that (anti) social distancing in shops now seems to have gone out the window – as if people are SO convinced that muzzles give them protection that any, previous, sensible measures are no longer needed…

87825 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to microdave, 2, #256 of 1303 🔗

Sensible? shrinking in terror from anybody less than six feet away from you?
Do you remember how the ludicrous six-foot rule was derived?

87977 ▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to annie, 2, #257 of 1303 🔗

Sorry, not the best choice of words! By “sensible” I meant not breathing down other peoples necks, and just keeping some distance – the sort of thing the Swedes were doing without being ordered.

88051 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to microdave, 1, #258 of 1303 🔗

Fair enough.
Brits never did like to get too close to other people.It ‘s built into us.

87542 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 24, #259 of 1303 🔗

My OH has been out and about on his bike buying eggs from local farms this morning. He met an elderly LS who we’ve become friendly with since this rubbish started. She is the widow of a doctor and she told him that people used to phone day and night and her husband would always go out even if it seemed minor because ‘they sound worried’. She says she is grieving for the NHS, as well she might. So many people have no idea that it is as good as gone and will not be coming back.

She also told him that her NHS worker daughter won’t even enter her garden – they have to meet in the park. Our friend described her as ‘brainwashed’. Her son, meanwhile, has come over regularly even during the first few weeks and he always hugs her. She says she’s struggling but always glad to talk to the likes of us! OH told her we’re struggling too and there are two of us.

Speaking of brainwashed, he then went in the PO. The owner, cringing behind his plastic screens with his visor on is someone we would have considered at least a close acquaintance, if not exactly a friend. He greeted OH coldly as if he barely knew him but didn’t challenge his maskless state. We assume that’s because his 2 co-workers have told him we’re exempt but he obviously regarded OH as a pariah for putting him in such terrible danger. How Is it going to be possible for people like him ever to recover?

To be a bit more cheerful, we are now determined to carry out our plan to load up the touring bikes and head for the (Welsh) hills next week, cycle-camping. We really need a break now, having been banged up here for 5 months and never going further than bloody Marple (once!) All we need to do is sort out a route with open and welcoming campsites en route and maybe a pub or 2 that hasn’t gone the full coronapanic. Please wish us luck!

87646 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #260 of 1303 🔗

Enjoy. There’s little enough around!

87726 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 2, #261 of 1303 🔗

Cheers!

87545 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #262 of 1303 🔗

The sturgeon daily puke has now become political. The recent train tragedy is currently been spoken on in concerned hushed tones. I am sick to deatb her muscling in on the nations daily life. At least westminster got that right.

Today. The return of the R!

National R rate is 1.3 according to the un named model she is spouting at us. Don’t we wear masks in shops what is she talking about? Key word ‘model’.

Noticing her right eye seems possible under stress.

Orkney cluster. Didnt catch numbers. Clusters are inevitable and prove our test and trace works wonders. Don’t unduly alarmed but don’t be complacent. This virus will spread quickly…

Blah pubs … blah… hospitality. Considerable risk … house parties 8 people from 3 housholds only under 12 you cant get within 2 metres above no, no.

Its harder for us to enforce inside peoples homes. We have evidence unspecified that the virus doez like a boogie in the lounge with sharon from next door.

PPE. Scotland will be making its own 223 sugical masks. Skull and bobes 233. Other masks being made and saving money too… gee why did you not do that before pissing our money up the wall.

3 points done blah facts blah stil stil still rule of threes.my god she is boring.

If you are outdoors it may well be around you so think about that and how you will act. Mental image of performance dance.

Covid briefing covering a train incident. This is now a sinister daily nannying of the nation. Political and oppressive.

87578 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #263 of 1303 🔗

Questions just happening now… this is daily it is a horror shop. Just told the nsyion Westminster need to either give more borrowing powers to Scotland or else send a money transfer. Sturgeon would help but cannot.

87655 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 1, #264 of 1303 🔗

It’s a good measure of an idiot : talking R numbers when they haven’t a clue that it’s a soft theoretical concept, whilst *never* looking at the available hard data.

87678 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to Basics, 1, #265 of 1303 🔗

Can we just separate from Scotland and let them get on with their stupidness.

87712 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 3, #266 of 1303 🔗

Just fucking ignore her. Ignore every word that comes out of her tartan cakehole.

87827 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 2, #267 of 1303 🔗

Do not ask
If people in the crashed train were masked.
They were
I will swear.
The train may have derailed
But the corpses’ face masks never failed.

87547 commononsense, replying to commononsense, 8, #268 of 1303 🔗

I thought you might be interested to read the response I received from my local MP regarding an email I sent her asking why the government (and indeed the world) were continuing to scare the living daylights out of everyone, and failing to notice the generation of global poverty, death, and misery that is on the doorstep. I’ve had to post it over 2 posts as I seem unable to post two photos at a time. Incidentally the 2 responses I previously received (both by email) were:1st: a heartfelt personal plea to give tattoo studios a date to restart. (My daughter has her own studio) which was met with an email stock reply which only got my back up even further; 2nd:a letter in support of a campaign to try and get our local lido open, which was met with an email which was considered and conciliatory, but still missed the point, and really shouldn’t have got the time of day; and now this actual letter. I feel a letter may have been sent as it is harder to share? I particularly like the start of paragraph 8 that states, ‘Lockdown has also ensured a speedier economic recovery,…’ but I guess the letter is dated 10th August, so the government couldn’t possible have known that our economy had shrunk by 20% (so far) by the following day.

87663 ▶▶ RickH, replying to commononsense, 11, #269 of 1303 🔗

“Lockdown has also ensured a speedier economic recovery”

I think that this is about as Alice Through The Looking Glass as you can get.

I mean …. there’s bullshit and then there’s … Cuckoo!

87936 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to commononsense, 2, #270 of 1303 🔗

The reply shows that our MPs are not of this world – they’re either from another planet or galaxy.

88089 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #271 of 1303 🔗

They have long tails and vertical pupils.

87548 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #272 of 1303 🔗

From Heath’s piece:
They can do nothing, and allow the disease to rip until herd immunity is reached. Quite rightly, no government has pursued this policy, out of fear of mass deaths and total social and economic collapse . “

Was this fear plausible at the time? There was never really any convincing (non-modelling) suggestion that this was a disease that could cause mass deaths (depending on what you mean by that term of course) or societal collapse. Obviously you could make up scenarios in which that could happen, but the most plausible assumption in February backed up by the early data from China (interpreted reasonably) was that this was a flu-level disease.

This is not just hindsight, it was said at the time by experts (such as Wittkowski) who, with hindsight, were the best guides to how we should have responded.

You can certainly argue that government should take a precautionary approach to some degree, and in that light I don’t strongly object to the conclusion that Sweden’s approach was probably correct. but even Sweden has lost out quite a lot by undue fear.

Seems to me if we had adopted an aggressively unfear-based response, refusing to change behaviour much except around specifically known vulnerable groups such as care homes and trying otherwise to keep calm and carry on as much as possible, and actively looking down on people who spread fear, it’s unlikely we would have suffered much more from the disease than we did or will (though it would have been compressed in time), and we would have been infinitely healthier as a society coming out.

By now, nobody except some medical analysts reviewing the data would probably even be particularly conscious that anything much had happened.

87553 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mark, 9, #273 of 1303 🔗

“out of fear of mass deaths and total social and economic collapse”

Which is exactly where we are right now 🙄

87565 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Mark, 10, #274 of 1303 🔗

Absolutely not plausible. The Chinese CDC released a large data set in late February (almost 80,000 patients) and the Italian government released a smaller data set early in March. Both showed very clearly that severe illness and death from Covid-19 have a very strong age gradient and that the vast majority of these cases have pre-existing conditions. There is no way anyone could ever have predicted societal collapse, mass deaths etc having seen this data, and the IFRs that were written up in a SAGE document of 2 March show that the government knew this.

87707 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 4, #275 of 1303 🔗

If this fear was ever plausible it was plausible for a month, MAXIMUM.

Then the facts flooded in and all demonstrated a mild flu-like epidemic in most countries, a bad flu season in the hardest hit places. Doesn’t even qualify as a pandemic in my head- if it does tecnically, it shouldn’t (the WHO have declared another another pandemic fraudulently imo).

TPTB routinely ignored these facts in favour of the narrative that justified their initial overreaction and none of them have the leadership props (except Norway and Denmark and perhaps Italy in a roundabout way) to admit their mistakes.

88394 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Farinances, #276 of 1303 🔗

The facts flooded in – see my post above – very early, way before lockdown.

87549 commononsense, #277 of 1303 🔗

page 2

87558 HoMojo, 13, #278 of 1303 🔗

Reading that article in The Quadrant it strikes me that Victorians (or perhaps even the whole of Australia) ain’t gonna get their democracy back until they take it back. And if that means annihilating the careers of these cockroaches then it’s no less than they deserve. (Actually prison is what they deserve.) It’s patently obvious to anyone with a modicum of common sense that they are using Covid as a cover for a fascist coup. When the flu is killing more than Covid and these measures are in place you know something is wrong. The State is using violence against its people, how’s that going to pan out?

87567 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #279 of 1303 🔗

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again.

We need to make a list of who said what before this happened and in the early days.

Then look at who was right and who was wrong.

Then look at who the government is listening to or following now.

Then call them out and maybe take action.

At least Hancock has listened to CH. That’s a start.

87593 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #280 of 1303 🔗

It’s quite easy the whole of Parliament and the entire MSM media bar Peter Hitchens Toby Young Alison Pearson and Sherrelle Jacobs.All Guilty

87606 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #281 of 1303 🔗

Sounds shockingly sweeping, but it’s not far from the absolute truth.

87571 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #282 of 1303 🔗

Tory backbenchers are finally sharpening their knives! Interesting recent report in the DT live section:

Conservative MPs have warned that Downing Street is getting “the guillotine ready-made” for Gavin Williamson, amid the chaos over today’s exam results.

…. Tory MPs warned that if the chaos was not resolved, Mr Williamson’s job could be at risk.

One said: “Clearly they are getting the guillotine ready-made. However I think things depend on grades and appeals, and also school return in September… and whether it becomes a big mess. The mocks change came at lastminute.com and should have been done weeks ago.”

A former minister said: “He’s clearly seen the chaos in Scotland and is trying to move to prevent that scenario. Instead he’s just made himself look panicky and incompetent.

“In short, he’s justifying his own sacking… the question is how scared Boris Johnson is of him – he’s bloody nasty when he’s in a corner.”

A third backbencher added: “It’s a farce, it’s a disgrace and Gavin Williamson should hang his head in shame and resign. He was a useless Defence Secretary and even worse Education Secretary.

“You can forgive Track and Trace, you can forgive PPE, because we were dealing with things we have never dealt with before, but we deal with exams every single year… and we have had six months to get it right.”

The bit about de Piffle being scared of him doesn’t say much for our country’s illustrious leader, does it?!

87585 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #283 of 1303 🔗

Part of me is encouraged because dissent has been so lacking that any dissent seems positive now, and if they dissent about stuff like this then maybe they will move on to the most important issues.

But my gut feel is that we should not be encouraged, because this isn’t significant dissent on the central issue which is, in short, we should have done what Sweden did and we should now be doing what Sweden is doing, and we are a million miles from that, and UK Govt is fully signed up to the coronapanic agenda.

87604 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 6, #284 of 1303 🔗

I prefer not to make the best the enemy of the good in this regard. They’re all guilty and if we can nail one on any basis we should do so. Never forget, never forgive.

But also, when people get sacked they sometimes get bitter or vengeful, and lash out. That’s when we are more likely to find out about some of the dirty laundry covered up under collective responsibility.

87607 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #285 of 1303 🔗

Let’s hope we see some of that

87668 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 2, #286 of 1303 🔗

I fear that you’re right, Julian. Besides which, people are now innocculated with the Fear/Panic virus.

87901 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, #287 of 1303 🔗

Again – total agreement. Williamson is a safe diversion – the snotty little test in the playground. And exams aren’t the issue – only one symptom.

87903 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, #288 of 1303 🔗

Sorry ‘ test’ is ‘twat!

88097 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #289 of 1303 🔗

I agree. The whole exam debacle is a very convenient diversion while they plan their next scare tactic.

88385 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #290 of 1303 🔗

One said: “Clearly they are getting the guillotine ready-made.

Kind of him/her to demonstrate how education has failed people.

87572 commononsense, replying to commononsense, 3, #291 of 1303 🔗

page 2 again

87583 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to commononsense, 9, #292 of 1303 🔗

Every sentence of this filth is literally diabolical. Diametrically opposed to the truth. A small crumb of comfort is that anyone in the political hierarchy who thinks they are doing the right thing by defending their superiors is going to get thrown under the bus along with everyone else.

87611 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to commononsense, 13, #293 of 1303 🔗

“Lockdown has also ensured a speedier economic recovery” WTF!?

The lockdown caused the economic collapse you fucking moron.

Sorry, but that’s the stupidest thing I’ve read today.

87660 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #294 of 1303 🔗

It also contains the standard face mask nonsense. Interesting read, as this is my local MP.

88099 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Castro, 2, #295 of 1303 🔗

MP = Mendacious Pillock?

87580 DressageRider, 11, #296 of 1303 🔗

The Tales from the Madhouse blog post by Gary Sidley is excellent (see link in Toby’s peice above). I was just browsing comments underneath it and found this, posted by ‘Kelly’:

“For those doctors and nurses, all healthcare professionals, there is a protest on 29th August 2020. They are delivering a letter to Downing Street for lockdown and restrictions to be lifted – needs hundreds to turn up to stop this madness!In small numbers they can be dismissed but not in their thousands.
Each person in NHS and any health care setting needs to stand up and be counted against these draconian measures that will only get worse as they boil us slowly in the pan.”

I hope, hope, hope…………

87584 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #297 of 1303 🔗

I guess this is when they tell us the next stage, Jan 2021:

https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/about

87597 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #298 of 1303 🔗

“MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000 IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE”.

Current world population = 7,800,000,000.

Required reduction = 7,300,000,000.

Seems totally fair, just and dignified.

God help us.

87617 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Richard O, 2, #299 of 1303 🔗

Assume all the people on the WEF will be first on the list to be culled? Maybe they should set an example.

87632 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to zacaway, 2, #300 of 1303 🔗

Those at the top are having way too much fun to sacrifice themselves, but s ome of the lower level staff in the WEF will be for sure.

87677 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard O, #301 of 1303 🔗

…. the World Economic Forum will draw on thousands of young people in more than 400 cities around the world (the Global Shapers Community)…

That’s why people over 45 will be redundant. They’re the ones who will question and oppose.
Well, theoretically at least. If their reaction to the covid fiasco is anything to go by they won’t question at all, they’ll just grab their towels!

The cull has only just begun and if you haven’t read 1984, now’s the time to do so because it’s the script.

87706 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Richard O, #302 of 1303 🔗

I’d be interested to know where this quote is from

87765 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Jonathan Castro, #303 of 1303 🔗

Georgia Guidestones.

It’s a weird monument in Georgia, USA, which is covered in these kinds of statements. To my knowledge, the person who commissioned it’s construction is not known.

87658 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #304 of 1303 🔗

If there is one critical lesson to learn from this crisis, it is that we need to put nature at the heart of how we operate. We simply can’t waste more time,” said HRH The Prince of Wales.

Considering that Big Ag and Big Pharma are key players in this, it’s hard to see where “nature” will get a look in!

87591 A Heretic, replying to A Heretic, 46, #305 of 1303 🔗

The economist has got the wrong end of the stick. I’m not frightened to leave my home and I’d happily go back to my office tomorrow if it were the same as it was back in March but I’m not going anywhere that needs a mask and I’m sure as hell not going back into a “socially distanced, mask wearing, queue to use the facilities” office when I can work happily from home.

87598 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A Heretic, 9, #306 of 1303 🔗

Totally agree.

87600 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to A Heretic, 22, #307 of 1303 🔗

Exactly. People working from home are getting some unfair stick. Like you say a lot would happily go back to the offices if they were either a) actually allowed and/or b) the offices were normal and not depressing, antisocial over the top “Covid safe” monstrosities.

87609 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Hubes, 12, #308 of 1303 🔗

I hate it. I have no division between my work and my now non-existent social life.

I used to walk to work, which gave me a nice bit of exercise every day and a good way to clear my mind.

Working from home was alright for the first fortnight, when I realised I could get a lie in and do chores at lunch etc. but the novelty has long worn off.

87630 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #309 of 1303 🔗

I’ve loved it, but feel bad for you and for my colleagues and all those who don’t like working from home. It suits some, but not all, and it should not IMO be imposed by employers. We’re planning to offer staff the choice.

87638 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Julian, 4, #310 of 1303 🔗

I’m all for flexible working practices. Other than getting teams and colleagues together at least some of the time, flexible options solve all kinds of issues.

I wouldn’t mind if I was out of the office half of the time, for instance, but the permenance is what I’m having difficulty with.

87633 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #311 of 1303 🔗

Yeah I miss the routine of getting up early and going into the office and seeing people. Before this I was working from home 1-2 days a week, which was good. All the weekdays blend into one now it’s 5 days working from home.

87666 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #312 of 1303 🔗

totally agree with you – it’s nice to have the option but working from homw all the time and work/home all blur into one never ending existence within the house!
our office is open now but optional to go in. We don’t have many employees about 100, and only about 4 are choosing to go in on any one day so not a great take-up. I went in for first time this week and was lovely and quiet and aircon was great in the heatwave and caught up on some gossip with the IT crew!! 🙂 Nice to have a change of scenery.

87608 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to A Heretic, 12, #313 of 1303 🔗

Workspaces now are psychologically damaging to sceptics. Not to mention the damage to your tongue from all the biting you’ll be doing while Karen from accounts says she won’t send her kids back to school in September.

87626 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Achilles, 8, #314 of 1303 🔗

I speak to colleagues very little other than on work matters now, for exactly this reason. It’s easier to avoid awkward conversations if you’re working remotely. I am one of the bosses so feel it inappropriate to rant at staff.

87641 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Achilles, 2, #315 of 1303 🔗

I remember early March when we were still in the office and people were beginning to panic. I was finding myself saying on a daily basis “will you shut the fuck up about Covid, I’m sick of hearing about it”

87615 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to A Heretic, 11, #316 of 1303 🔗

My boss asked me just yesterday how I was feeling about returning to the office – said I’m happy to return to Normal or continue to work from home – but the “New Normal” (masks, distancing & all the myriad rules) sounds depressing and anti-social to me. He agreed – so perhaps if people keep feeding this kind of thing up the chains it will eventually sink in with the powers that be.

(However, I avoided getting into any kind discussion about scepticism – seems reasonable enough to say how I feel without debating the necessity of the rules. They keep telling us they care about employees feeling after all.)

87636 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to zacaway, 8, #317 of 1303 🔗

Our staff are saying similar things, and would welcome it if staff said they didn’t want us to put distancing measures in place – though the big bosses at our place would never stand for it sadly.

A lot of them who say they prefer the office don’t want to come back until things are “normal” and seem to expect this to happen soon. I keep telling them it won’t.

87656 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Julian, 9, #318 of 1303 🔗

We got a 1-5 survey of how confident are we to return. My ‘not at all confident’ answer was obviously due to the masks and general silliness, but no doubt they assume it’s fear of the virus!

87686 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to kf99, #319 of 1303 🔗

Yep – had similar surveys – there is never an option to say you’re not a bedwetter, but just don’t want to return with all the nonsense rules.

87730 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to kf99, #320 of 1303 🔗

We didn’t ask our staff for reasons, or levels of confidence, just about what they would prefer to do long-term.

87623 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A Heretic, 6, #321 of 1303 🔗

I’ve formally refused to consent to the new “Covid-safe” workplace policies which were distributed to all employees a couple of months ago.

Only a second wave will prevent me from being forced to resign for refusal to return to the office. No worries whatsoever then!

87689 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Richard O, 6, #322 of 1303 🔗

It’s completely illogical to tell people their office is now so hazardous that PPE etc is mandatory, but it is also perfectly safe so is reasonable to force people back there to work (especially if you were never hired to work in a hazardous environment in the first place). Constructive dismissal?

87771 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard O, 5, #323 of 1303 🔗

Ask for their risk assessment then rip it to shreds – lots of ammo on here.

Use the Health and Safety legislation and ask for proofs their mitigations will work and for the science behind it.

Remember Prof Dingwall said social distancing was “conjured up out of nowhere” and there is no scientific evidence anything stops a virus. Not acceptable for a risk assessment, there must be proof the mitigation will work – for example do not stand under a suspended load. The proof – if it falls then if you are standing clear you will not be hit, it’s as easy as that.

Under HS&E legislation if you do NOT agree to a risk assessment you have the right to refuse to work and then write your own risk assessment and use those mitigations to prove you are working safe.

As long a long a you can prove you have thought about the risks and documented same you are covered.

The government cannot or will not supply the science behind their decisions and I have it in writing from councils they have no risk assessments etc from either themselves or central government.

87791 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #324 of 1303 🔗

Use the Health and Safety legislation and ask for proofs their mitigations will work and for the science behind it

And also demand to see proof that wearing masks for long periods doesn’t cause any side effects – which, of course, they do…

87695 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to A Heretic, 7, #325 of 1303 🔗

Choice is key. 😊

I’m back in the office when I don’t have to be (which isn’t as much as both our offices are now open- only one was before) but am blessed with a sceptic boss who thinks anti-social bollox is bullshit. Strange, you’d think IT workers would be all board with working from home but many of them seem to hate it because they’ve spent much of their careers having the option and turning it down- and have chosen to work for my boss who favours an office presence (evem if most of the stuff we do is remote). It’s interesting, I think only a few people with health issues and one pregnant lady are still at home out of us, and there’s about 60 of us.

87711 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to A Heretic, 10, #326 of 1303 🔗

One of the 20 odd measures that have been introduced in my office (I won’t name where) includes…and honestly I am not making this up and I quote..”when passing in circulation areas turn your head to face away from oncoming colleagues until they have passed”. This is clarified later in the ‘protocols’ with the following, “ establish clear routes throughout the workplace to maintain 2m social distancing. Where this is not possible I.e. walking amongst decking stations where staff are working, staff should take the following steps to:

  • advise colleagues that you are about to walk past them and ask that they face away from you as you do so.”

The 25 page document continues in this vein.

we are not allowed to sit next to, opposite or behind anyone so office capacity is currently 10%.

So yes, I too will continue to work from home for as long as possible and the other alternative seems to be to sit there with a bag in my head and carry an air horn warning system

87727 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Roadrash, 6, #327 of 1303 🔗

Brilliant! I think my office has topped that though with a rule that you cannot exit the building via the fire escape, when the fire alarm goes off, without wearing your face mask.

In addition, one lift is designated the “fire lift” which disabled (or mobility impared) people may use instead of the stairs in the event of fire. The new COVID-safe rule is only one disabled person at a time may use this in an emergency, so you don’t catch the corona on your way out. I guess if there is more than one person they have to draw straws to see who goes first?

87799 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to zacaway, 1, #328 of 1303 🔗

That sounds much like the picture someone posted recently of 4 stickers on a lift floor, directing all occupants to face the corners, (presumably) to avoid the risk of inhaling any nasty virus. I wonder if there is supposed to be a “dedicated” button pusher?

87832 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to microdave, 1, #329 of 1303 🔗

Good point. They’ll have to bring back dedicated lift operators to press the buttons. Obviously wearing a full hazmat suit.

87991 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to zacaway, #330 of 1303 🔗

They’ll have to bring back dedicated lift operators to press the buttons

That reminds me of a true story – a few years ago I was sharing a multi-story car park lift with several others. As we reached an intermediate floor a synthesised voice announced which level it was. A blonde lady (sorry to any who might be reading) piped up: “Is there really someone saying that each time?” To this day, I’m not sure if she was joking or not…

88111 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #332 of 1303 🔗

Great clip. Thanks for the laugh.

87932 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to zacaway, 4, #333 of 1303 🔗

so standard rules for evacuations is dont go back for coats , phones, computers etc. Just leave immediately. However if you forget your mask, of course you must go back inside the burning building to get it. Thats ok.. masks make you indestructable.. thats why Batman wears one.

87788 ▶▶ PWL, replying to A Heretic, 2, #334 of 1303 🔗

What happens when work cracks out the Swastikas and the portrait of Der Fuhrer, and insists on everyone taking part in the morning Seig Heiling – and no more working at home where the party can’t inspect your loyalties? Going to quit?

87858 ▶▶▶ A Heretic, replying to PWL, 5, #335 of 1303 🔗

Thanks to their own stupid rules they can’t get more than 33% of the staff into the building on any given day. We’re split into 3 weekly groups as they also need to spend the entire weekend “deep cleaning” the place (whatever that is) before a new group is allowed in.
They’ve already confirmed the next review of the stupidity will be in November and have strongly hinted it will carry on until at least next spring so I’ve got a while yet before I need to practice my Seig Heiling.

87594 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #336 of 1303 🔗

Yesterday, the official covid death toll was adjusted from 46700 to 41,300

Here’s another 3,600 to knock of the offical death toll!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/12/almost-10-per-cent-deaths-attributed-covid-19-not-related-coronavirus/

Nearly 10 per cent of coronavirus deaths reported by Public Health England (PHE) were not related to Covid-19, a report shows.

….. On Wednesday, the true extent of the problem emerged when PHE published a report showing that 3,664 people who had been included in 40,160 English coronavirus deaths did not have Covid-19 on their death certificate.

It is also now clear that England’s death rate has been diminishing far faster than official figures showed.

….. Experts said the figures explained why the daily death toll for England remained stubbornly high throughout June and July, in contrast to the other devolved nations and despite the Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures showing that deaths were rapidly falling.

The numbers have now been adjusted, and it now appears that England may have had its first Covid-19 death-free day on August 6.

Thank goodness the MSM are finally pointing out that the plandemic is about done.

However, I have noticed that, certainly in today’s Grad and DT, the focus has moved from “cases” to numbers tracked and traced – or not!

Also, the Grad used to have a scary coronavirus section which has completely disappeared. The DT still has theirs, though it isn’t full of scary graphs and local case maps but some questioning articles, like the Sarah Knapton one cited by Toby and a story about Tim Martin’s demand to see Prof. Pennington’s evidence.

Have a look in your chosen rags and see if it’s a trend.

So, not enough covid around to report on? I wonder what they’ll scare us with next …….

87620 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #337 of 1303 🔗

There are the coming seperation issues to deal with once covud is flogged to death and no more. The fear is a comfort to people. Without it many will struggle.

87682 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #338 of 1303 🔗

And very encouraging from comments section – genuinely feels like tide turning now.

87715 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard, #339 of 1303 🔗

Interesting that it’s now sporting a “coronavirus cases tracker” map, slap bang in the middle of the article.

87924 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, #341 of 1303 🔗

Sorry, not got a chosen rag. Ditched the MSM – via whatever medium – back in January.

88125 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #342 of 1303 🔗

Ironically, I didn’t go anywhere near the MSM before the election.

Once the plandemic began, I’d have a look at the Grad’s headlines (no paywall, no ads), then fortunately found OffG, then here.

Reluctantly I took an introductory subscription to the DT so I could follow the many links that Toby posts. That expires at the end of this month. It’s good to see the reporting is becoming less fearmongering and more questioning.

87605 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 7, #343 of 1303 🔗

Is thebuptick in infections not also due to increased mask wearing?
I’ve seen more than a few references to the strong correlation between mask wearing in public and infection rates increasing, i.e. masks increase unhygienic behaviour.

87614 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Nessimmersion, 7, #344 of 1303 🔗

‘the uptick in infections is almost entirely due to increased testing and nothing to worry about’. Toby Young – above. The media call them ‘infections’ but it is unlikely that (m)any of them are actually ill, let alone at risk of death.

Now as for masks, I believe they are more likely to cause bacterial infections so we’ll see how much of an issue this is in the future and whether anyone getting sick from wearing a mask will be counted as a ‘coronavirus infection’ Place your bets.

87760 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #345 of 1303 🔗

Masks = ‘Germ Blankets’, taken from ‘anon’ so feel free to use.

87621 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nessimmersion, 8, #346 of 1303 🔗

Masks definitely seem to increase unhygienic behaviour from what I have seen, though I think it’s unlikely at this stage that that will translate into increased coronavirus positives as the virus is so rare now, especially in the UK.

87761 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 5, #347 of 1303 🔗

Watch the bacterial lung and mouth infections and pleurisy sky rocket though.

87756 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #348 of 1303 🔗

They said ‘increases risky behaviour’, naturally I thought of Dogging but they only meant decreased Social Distancing.

87619 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 18, #349 of 1303 🔗

So, If a healthy person were stupid enough to have a covid test that turned out to be positive and they are asymptomatic (as 80% of people seem to be)

and then that person were to be unlucky enough to die by; attempting to put on their trousers, hit by lightning (lots of it about at the moment), drowns, commits suicide, or one of the other infinite ways that we can perish – then that will be a covid death?

87664 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Major Panic, 9, #350 of 1303 🔗

A healthy person with no symptoms who voluntarily takes a Covid test deserves to perish within 28 days

87698 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Hubes, 3, #351 of 1303 🔗

natural selection….

87746 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hubes, 3, #352 of 1303 🔗

Nobody is, my local testing station is only getting 20 punters a day, mostly sent in groups by their employers.
Everybody else is too canny (see your comment) or can’t be arsed.

87776 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Hubes, #353 of 1303 🔗

Ah mate, a good hearty chuckle I just had! Off to work I go now…cheers!

87800 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Major Panic, 1, #354 of 1303 🔗

Yes, this was a known thing at the beginning.

Hiding the truth in the lies, all part of the coronavirus swindle: Eddie Large and 568 others:
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/04/hiding-the-truth-in-the-lies-all-part-of-the-coronavirus-swindle-eddie-large-and-568-others/

87631 Guirme, replying to Guirme, 36, #355 of 1303 🔗

Just had a thoruoghly dispiriting visit to an almost empty Cafe Nero in the centre of Perth. Coffee was served by the stony faced assistant in paper cups and my croissant in a paper bag; no china, no cutlery. Proferred cash but told I had to pay by card. When I paid I was then told by the stony faced but unmasked assistant that I should be wearing a mask and wouldn’t be allowed in in future. The fact that we were there to eat and drink in the premises was irrelevant. Meanwhile my wife who was sitting waiting at a table pointed out to the member of staff that the table needed cleaned (crumbs, and detritus of previous occupant). Stony faced assistant stated that there are cleaning products available and my wife should clean it herself!

We have used Cafe Costa a few times recently without being masked and have enjoyed reasonable coffee served in china cups with proper china plates and real cutlery served by pleasant staff. Long after this covid paranoia is over we will still remember this awful experience and clearly will not patronise Cafe Nero. Do these companies really wish to go out of business?

87649 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Guirme, 16, #356 of 1303 🔗

I’m beginning to think many companies really have a death wish and so we should grant that wish by voting with our feet and wallet and boycott these establishments.

87650 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Guirme, 14, #357 of 1303 🔗

They sound thoroughly miserable and unwelcoming. Maybe remind them about Disability Discrimination/Equalities Act, or pop in (unmasked) and drop off a copy of the Law or Fiction handy guide to how much there fine could be?

87673 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #358 of 1303 🔗

*their* fine. Sceptics are sticklers for correctness.

87687 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #359 of 1303 🔗

No we’re not.

Pilkunnussija.

87714 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Farinances, 3, #360 of 1303 🔗

And yet, you spell the name of the legendary Zargozonian folk-poet exactly right!

88041 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #361 of 1303 🔗

Aargh, why bother, just lend them a razor as a quicker way to cut their own throats.

88128 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #362 of 1303 🔗

Who cleans up after them?

87676 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Guirme, 8, #363 of 1303 🔗

Obviously, a poor customer service experience. Interesting that Nero recently sent me a “free coffee if you buy anything” voucher. However, I’ve found that my mental health suffers too much if I go near any place with social distancing, so I haven’t used it. Sounds as if I made the right choice regardless.

87697 ▶▶ davews, replying to Guirme, 12, #364 of 1303 🔗

“Meanwhile my wife who was sitting waiting at a table pointed out to the member of staff that the table needed cleaned (crumbs, and detritus of previous occupant). Stony faced assistant stated that there are cleaning products available and my wife should clean it herself!”

I find that incredible. In all the eating places I have been in recently (mainly pubs, I am not a coffee shop person) the staff have been meticulously following cleaning routines. Always thoroughly cleaning table tops after customers leave. I was surprised in one pub where they also disinfected the seating and even wiped down their plastic menu cards before putting back on tables. To expect customers to clean the table tops before using them is disgusting.

88454 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to davews, 2, #365 of 1303 🔗

It used to be Bring your own bottle (wine). Now it’s bring your own disinfectant and J Cloth.

87744 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Guirme, 3, #366 of 1303 🔗

I prefer independent coffee shops

87781 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Victoria, 2, #367 of 1303 🔗

Yes, kh’s sounds good, just a bit too far away from me unfortunately.

87774 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Guirme, 2, #368 of 1303 🔗

This kind of experience would get them forever banned from my patronage. Never to go back again.

87785 ▶▶ Aremen, replying to Guirme, 9, #369 of 1303 🔗

Forgive me for interfering, but I thought I’d call the Cafe Nero in question. I read out your post and the comments underneath, with a reference to the website, to the manager, Lisa. She said she knew the gentleman in question. I suggested that she seemed to want to go out of business and that I was trying to help her by giving information about what was being said about her branch on the internet. I asked how a person was supposed to eat a croissant and drink coffee whilst wearing a mask. She told me it was “the law” that people had to wear a mask whilst at the counter placing their order. Being in England, I don’t know whether that’s true of not. A quick google tells me it’s not, but the law may have changed. I asked her whether there are exemptions to this requirement. She said “if someone has asthma”. I echoed “asthma?”. She elaborated “or other disabilities”. I asked “what are these other disabilities?”. She said she was going to end the call because she wasn’t prepared to have an argument. I said I’m not arguing, I’m asking her questions and repeated “what are the other disabilities?”. She hung up.

87841 ▶▶▶ Guirme, replying to Aremen, 4, #370 of 1303 🔗

Thanks Aremen, happy for you to be involved. “She hung up” rather says it all about their customer care attitude. I am not aware of any such law and certainly it has not been how other coffee shops and tea rooms that we have been in have operated.

87846 ▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Guirme, 5, #371 of 1303 🔗

Phew! Glad you’re OK with my interfering. I thought I might have overstepped the mark. She did ask me to repeat the name of this website, which I did do carefully. Who knows, we might have a convert in the catering industry in Perth by the end of today. In which case, hello and welcome, Lisa!

87926 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Guirme, #372 of 1303 🔗

one of those places that thinks that customers interfere with the smooth running of the operation. Bit like hospitals and surgeries,,, and train companies,, and …… i could go on .

88042 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 3, #373 of 1303 🔗

… libraries.Librarians hate those ugly gaps where readers have dared to take a book out.
No danger of that here, we aren’t allowed in the library at all.

87804 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Guirme, 2, #374 of 1303 🔗

It’s not going to be over. The companies think you will keep coming. Will you?

88599 ▶▶ MRG, replying to Guirme, #375 of 1303 🔗

Dining pub near us, Sutton Hall just outside Macclesfield, part of the TRG, does the contact detail tracing and so on with gusto. That’s the trouble with a big chain.
Details taken by computer at the main door, all staff in visors, customers not allowed anywhere near the bar, one-way system.
Totally devoid of atmosphere inside.
To add insult to injury they’ve increased the price of Timothy Taylor Boltmaker from £4/pint pre-lockdown to £4.50!
That hurts this Yorkshireman.
I feel sorry for the young staff.

88814 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to MRG, #376 of 1303 🔗

I wouldn’t visit any Establishment that treated me like a biohazard.

88796 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Guirme, #377 of 1303 🔗

You can understand why it was empty! A good way to go bust!

87637 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 25, #378 of 1303 🔗

Quick retail report, maybe old hat now, but worth it to encourage anybody still shy about going naked.

Weekly shop today, Home Bargains, Asda and Aldi. One other maskless shopper in HB and one in Asda. No looks, no comments whatsoever. In Aldi, till girl came to take her seat and greatfully took her mask off.

Any feeling of “I’m the only one without a mask” quickly turns into “What are all you fools doing that for?” You chat to the checkout staff and it’s like nothing is different. I honestly don’t feel a thing.
Just do it.

87651 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Sam Vimes, 12, #379 of 1303 🔗

Yep same here. I just go in and shop as normal. I’ve even stopped thinking to myself wtf are the people doing with masks on. They can keep on wearing them forever for all I care now.

87653 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Hubes, 6, #380 of 1303 🔗

PS, parked my trolley next to a freshly discarded mask.

87674 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #381 of 1303 🔗

How fresh was it ?

87681 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 7, #382 of 1303 🔗

Well, I could breathe through it just fine…. Kidding! Looked very clean, maybe used once, but just chucked on the floor in the trolley park. They are so socially conscious, these zealots, aren’t they?

87701 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #383 of 1303 🔗

I don’t know if you saw a post of mine a while ago – I calculated that, at 3.5 grams a mask, if 1 person in 4 disposed of one disposable mask a day, that would creat 64 TONS of waste masks a day. And that didn’t include anything else such as empty hand sanitizer bottles, disposed hand wipes etc. People are absolutely so blind to the consequences of their actions.

I read a great article the other day about the human microbiome (happy to dig it out if anyone wants to read it) – it said that there is probably 200 times the amount of human microbiome genetic material than the human genetic material itself and that the microbiome has been estimated to weigh about 5 pounds! 5 pounds of bacteria viruses and other assorted microbes on and in each of us!

DavidC

87709 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, 2, #384 of 1303 🔗

I recommend this book:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spontaneous-Evolution-Positive-Future-There/dp/1848503059/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3U5FPR3O84BSF&dchild=1&keywords=bruce+lipton+books&qid=1597325063&s=books&sprefix=bruce+lipton%2Caps%2C197&sr=1-3

Fascinating explanaiton of how the human body is a collection of symbiotic and co-operating cells, including bateria etc. Fascinating stuff, lightened by Bhaerman’s humour.

87713 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DavidC, 1, #385 of 1303 🔗

Microboniams now! Why has Andy Burnham let me become infected with that? We need to close the pubs…

87939 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Sam Vimes, #386 of 1303 🔗

Lol!

88039 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, #387 of 1303 🔗

If you are a bacterium or a virus, a human body is just a comfortable home. Probably the best use for zombies anyway.

87728 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DavidC, #388 of 1303 🔗

Yep, about a clenched fistfull as I helpfully explained to a woman who had seen suchlike figures in a documentary.
Dunno if I was strictly accurate but it made for a splendid hand gesture.
“About this much”.

87745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, #389 of 1303 🔗

A clenched fist is often the best explanation for them 🙂

87970 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to DavidC, 1, #390 of 1303 🔗

Just when we thought we were getting a grip on plastic waste this horror comes along.

87694 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #391 of 1303 🔗

I saw one yesterday with either blood on it or lipstick. Either way disgusting

87731 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stefarm, #392 of 1303 🔗

Seaman Stains,
Sorry.

87740 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, #393 of 1303 🔗

<frantically tries to tipex “I could breathe through it” off screen…>

87652 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Sam Vimes, 25, #394 of 1303 🔗

From a slightly different perspective I was at an M4 services in Wales this morning. Masks of course not mandatory in Wales still. I went inside, maskless but lots of what I presumed to be English tourists on their way to West Wales for the weekend, all going inside putting masks on. I got a number of ‘looks’ from the masked people (most people I talk to have no idea the rules are different here in Wales). I went back to my car and then, just because, I thought I’d go back inside again, to flaunt my naked face to the English invaders. More disgusted looks. One woman stared at me as if I was bludgeoning her Granny to death right there outside Costa Coffee.

What joy!!!!

87659 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to The Spingler, 8, #395 of 1303 🔗

Good stuff! The more flaunting of naked faces in front of the cowardly, the better.

Clearly when it comes to our people visiting Wales, we ain’t sending our best (to coin a phrase).

87721 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mark, 5, #396 of 1303 🔗

Actually, the tourists from England I’ve encountered here in North Wales have been lovely. Once they realise they don’t have to wear a mask in a shop, it becomes part of their holiday experience! One tactic you can try, as I have done – let the incomers know they don’t need to follow the indoor mask rules in Wales. Unless they are zealots, who I believe are a minority, they will be happy to take them off. Communication is key…

87737 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mr Dee, #397 of 1303 🔗

Is your first name Afon, Mr. Dee?

87675 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #398 of 1303 🔗

Absolutely, Sam, couldn’t agree more.

Didn’t have time to post this earlier, but this morning I went bare faced and alone into two shops.

In Dunelm, I breezed past the mask and hygiene monitor with a big smile. She returned the smile and said nothing. I doubt if she even saw my badge.

In a large, out of town B and M, the big notice about masks also said there were exemptions for “people with breathing difficulties and non visible disabilities” so bonus point there for B and M.

No-one gave me a second glance in either store. Why? I like to think that more and more sheeple are cottoning on about the exemptions and are no more likely to look at me without a mask than if I was in a wheelchair.

Both stores are like big sheds with tin roofs. It was unbearably hot in both.

87736 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, 3, #399 of 1303 🔗

2 young women in masks in the convenience store today, each had an unmasked child so I could see the puzzled looks on their faces as they stared after me.

87753 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #400 of 1303 🔗

Puzzled is a good start!

87752 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Sam Vimes, #401 of 1303 🔗

Never old hat Mr V. I love these uplifting stories from my fellow brethren

87644 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 14, #402 of 1303 🔗

It’s great that Carl Heneghan and Jason Oke’s work has resulted in a change of the duration of the Covid-19 positive test. However, it still doesn’t rectify the ‘Death by Covid-19/Death from Covid-19’ problem or the fact that if someobody dies within the 28 day period (again, using the ‘run over by a bus’ example) from something else, it will still show Covid-19 as the cause of death.

A bit anecdotal but a friend of mine whose Father was admitted to hosiptal in the later stages of cancer earlier in this fiasco tested negative on admission, ‘caught’ it and tested positive and later died. At the top of the death certificate? Covid-19.

DavidC

87670 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to DavidC, 4, #403 of 1303 🔗

If some way could be found to strip out those deaths as well, maybe we could lose half of the remaining “COVID” deaths.

87680 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to ConstantBees, 9, #404 of 1303 🔗

I think about the poor souls who were sent back from hospitals to care and nursing homes and then locked down. I think that was governnemt mandates murder, no less.

DavidC

87684 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DavidC, 7, #405 of 1303 🔗

Absolutely. What else could you call sending an ‘infection bomb’ into a closed environment full of vulnerable folk?

87685 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DavidC, 6, #406 of 1303 🔗

Euthanasia.Get rid of the useless eaters and bump up the death rates at the same time.These people are satanic.

87717 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DavidC, 1, #407 of 1303 🔗

What would you say to the NHS manager who decided to send Covid patients, whose kidneys had been wrecked on ventilators, into the Dialysis
unit of another hospital whose patients are sealed in normal times and were considered especially vulnerable to the Covid ?
What might you say if you knew that hospital #1 had it’s own underutilised Dialysis Unit ?

87719 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to karenovirus, 1, #408 of 1303 🔗

I’d ask if they had opted out of the organ donation scheme or were they still “in” under the new way of doing things?

Kill people off, take their organs as it is now opt out – good scam.

Just a bit more personal than kill them off, take their house under the equity release small print.

87679 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to DavidC, 5, #409 of 1303 🔗

Presumably, if Carl Heneghan and Jason Oke hadn’t flagged this up, PHE would still be at it?

I’ve often referred to this as the ‘numbers game’. When someone in authority initiates a policy, the numbers generated have to be in line with the policy, otherwise the initiator looks stupid. As BJ went for the nuclear option, the numbers would have to be huge to justify what he did, but unfortunately they aren’t. And with PHE not able to cook the books they look even worse.

87704 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Biggles, 2, #410 of 1303 🔗

Spot on Biggles. It’s going to be (almost?) impossible to get the true picture of what has really happened because the underlying data is now so compromised and dirty one way and another.

DavidC

87751 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to DavidC, 1, #411 of 1303 🔗

Do you not think that might have been the deliberate ploy all along? Give PHE enough rope to hang themselves confident in the knowledge they would relish the opportunity.

87683 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to DavidC, 9, #412 of 1303 🔗

This is what Italy did and their total ended up at 12% of what it was.

So in reality I reckon our ‘true’ covid total is only in the realm of 4k.

Which makes the lockdown all the more batshit crazy.

87645 microdave, 9, #413 of 1303 🔗

How are these people supposed to critically report on their briefs when they don’t appear to have even a basic understanding of subject they are reporting on?

Which, sadly, applies to virtually the entire government…

87667 karenovirus, 12, #414 of 1303 🔗

Road Report.
I had thought that the astonishing levels of traffic (small city, large hinterland) earlier this week might in part be the result of 50% free grub but it is just as busy today with a normal morning rush hour, still busy in and out of the town at lunchtime.
Even cars going into County Hall which is a novelty.

Massive commercial ‘Farm Shop’, carpark rammed, exterior queues for different departments no masks, extensive children’s play area heavily used, no masks.
Rural Car Boot Sale back in its Thursday slot a sea of unmasked faces (locals mixing with visitors oh nooos).

Large seaside town, not nearly as busy as it should be on a sunny August late morning.
Again no masks except one elderly couple sat outside their beach hut with masks and plastic gloves.

By the river a modern development with restaurants, cafes and bars on the ground floor facing a piazza, think St. Mark’s without the Venice. It’s as though the Covid never was. Extra furniture on the public .
square, quite busy and very relaxed.

The nearby area of redundant port buildings turned over to equatic and marine sports has been dead of late but today a group of children were getting kitted out with life jackets to go for an adventure on the river.
Bless.

87688 Will, replying to Will, 11, #415 of 1303 🔗

Joyful discovery of a wonderful fishmongers today in Borrowash near Derby. Operating out of the door but the shop is tiny and no concerns about masks needing to be worn in the doorway and I suspect the fishmonger is Lockdown sceptical!!! If you are in the area pay “Finest of Fish” a visit!!!!

87763 ▶▶ Simon, replying to Will, #416 of 1303 🔗

I used to live in Borrowash, was quite a nice place to be.

87779 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Simon, #417 of 1303 🔗

My in-laws live there. I’ll give them a heads-up about the fishmonger.

87773 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Will, #418 of 1303 🔗

Same with Zuvufish in Tickhill.

88371 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #419 of 1303 🔗

First time I’ve seen a Fish recommending a fishmonger. 🙂

87821 ▶▶ microdave, replying to Will, 1, #420 of 1303 🔗

Operating out of the door but the shop is tiny and no concerns about masks needing to be worn in the doorway

Just like Albert’s Fish Bar in Holt, Norfolk. I’m not going to apologise for giving them a plug – as other establishments are being mentioned here. They do superb chips (I can’t vouch for the fish, but other comments are favourable), and they actually PREFER cash for orders under £10!

88071 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to microdave, #421 of 1303 🔗

No need to apologise – sharing the details of those who deserve our support is part of the purpose of this site.

88169 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Andrew Fish, #422 of 1303 🔗

In which case, I’ll add the Wheatsheaf Pub in Wetheral, near Carlisle. Just been there for a meal and not a mask in sight. Absolute bliss.

87692 Awkward Git, 4, #423 of 1303 🔗

Found these recent videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn0V5uItsVc&feature=emb_logo – in German but with subtitles, over 600 doctor’s question covid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1qTi6GKIhU&feature=emb_logo – again in German with subtitles, Parliamentary Inquiry into covid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI9K-pq0zhk&feature=emb_logo – about Rockefeller lockstep

87693 Will, replying to Will, 42, #424 of 1303 🔗

Excellent article by Ross Clark behind the Telegraph paywall. Worth a read in full but this quote was really heartening:

“ There is a moral here. If you are a country whose economy relies on UK tourists, don’t test more people than you need to; let those very mild and asymptomatic cases go unrecorded. If you are resident in Britain and value your freedom to meet relatives, go down the pub and so on, think twice about getting yourself tested – your reward may well be to have your whole town locked down.”

87724 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 9, #425 of 1303 🔗

let those very mild and asymptomatic cases go unrecorded” suspect and hope Italy is doing exactly this. Conte said they can’t afford another lockdown.

87775 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, 2, #426 of 1303 🔗

There is another way of looking at this though. The more asymptomatic and mild cases are recorded, the more people (should) realise that, like so many other unremarkable respiratory viruses, it’s (probably) pervasive at the moment, or was. And nothing to worry about if you’re normally healthy.
Having said that, I ignored the invitation to do swabs generated from Imperial, for a mass survey, or might have been Kings, couldn’t be bothered.

87934 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bruno, #427 of 1303 🔗

Also true, though if Italy did that it might reassure their own population (or it might not) but it would mean they’d get put on the naughty step which would screw up their tourist industry.

87952 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Bruno, 2, #428 of 1303 🔗

I think the key word here is “should”! Currently, the media (or most of it) is still presenting all new “cases” as something dangerous and scary, regardless of whether they’re mild, asymptomatic, the result of virus RNA from an infection weeks/months ago, or even just a false positive.

87978 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 4, #429 of 1303 🔗

Nobody who had a lockdown can afford another one. It was a one shot, last-gasp try to contain a virus now endemic. Game over.

88369 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #430 of 1303 🔗

It was a one shot, last-gasp try to contain a virus now endemic.

You’re very kind, Nick. More like a planned first step towards a global fascist state.

88793 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to JohnB, #431 of 1303 🔗

It was certainly planned, of that I have no doubt.

88792 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, #432 of 1303 🔗

A couple of months ago Italy admitted it had over cooked the Covid figures. Its taken this country a few months more to admit the same thing.

88786 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Will, 1, #433 of 1303 🔗

100% in agreement. Don’t be tested, it just encourages the Covid nutters!

87702 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #434 of 1303 🔗

Why is this “young person” attending the big WE Forum “Great Reset” summit? Look what her company does…

https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/about

Victoria Alonsoperez, Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Chipsafer, Uruguay, and a Young Global Leader

https://www.chipsafer.com/about

87708 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #435 of 1303 🔗

Yep, all the different threads starting to come together – as long a you are awake enough to see it.

87718 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #436 of 1303 🔗

Chipsafer is a platform that can track and detect anomalies in livestock behaviour at any time and place with the aim of isolating the outbreak of such anomalies as soon as possible.”

This comments section is most definitely an anomaly in livestock behaviour!

87725 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #437 of 1303 🔗

<cheesy ‘nice’ muzak>

You wear a seat belt because you care, and want to be safe.
You wear a mask because you care, and want to be safe.
You have your pets microchipped, because you care, and want them to be safe.
Now, you can make the next step in caring and being safe, because that’s what you want..
A Chipsafe microchip in your earlobe is almost undetectable, and can be fitted at the same time as your Coronavirus test….

87741 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #438 of 1303 🔗

Yep, I was thinking change cattle to humans and it’s ready to go.

Maybe this is part of the £400 million investment in a bankrupt satellite company is for?

Too jaded and cynical?

87749 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #439 of 1303 🔗

You really can’t be. Not any more.

87758 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, #440 of 1303 🔗

Nice to know it’s not just me.

I know I’m not paranoid.

Paranoiacs just think the world is put to get them.

I know the world is out to eat me so not paranoid.

88460 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #441 of 1303 🔗

About 5 years ago some muppets, in Sweden I think, agreed to be chipped just to make it easier to get into a nightclub and get served at the bar. FFS.

87750 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #442 of 1303 🔗

Also Bernard Looney, Chief Executive Officer, bp, United Kingdom

Seems a very apt name

87757 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, #443 of 1303 🔗

A fascinating concatenation of capital.

87705 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #444 of 1303 🔗

Had an idea for a Theme Tune but I’m not nominating it officially since its cruel.
For all those whose companies are going broke thanks to lockdown.

Harry J. & The All Stars
‘ The Liquidator ‘

87723 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #445 of 1303 🔗

Great tune!

87710 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 27, #446 of 1303 🔗

Here is the latest in my battle with the Coop regarding their failure to highlight exemptions to mask-wearing in High Peak stores. Please note that Charlotte seems to have such contempt for Coop customers that she can’t even be bothered to proof-read her email (all those question marks). Also, I must be getting old but I object to ‘Hi Miriam’!

My response is below hers.

Hi Miriam,

Thank you for your email and my apologies for the delay in response to you.

The health and safety of Co-op colleagues, customers and members is our priority.

In line with new laws set out by the Government, it is mandatory to wear a face covering to cover the nose and mouth when shopping in Co-op stores in Scotland from 10th July and in England from 24th July.

This is clearly communicated through store signage, but it is the responsibility of all non exempt customers to ensure that they are in adherence with the new legal requirements. I have passed on feed back for you about the message not being clear enough in store so we can get this looked into for you.

If there’s anything else we can help you with, please do not hesitate to respond to this email.

???????Kind regards and best wishes,

Charlotte

Member & Customer Services

=============

Dear Charlotte,

Thank you for your response to my email of 5 August.

Unfortunately, I consider it to be inadequate. I hardly need reminding of the mandatory mask requirement in shops as this is what all my correspondence with the Coop has been about! I have now wasted considerable amounts of my time emailing Customer ‘Care’ about the Coop’s lamentable approach to mask exemptions and being fobbed off; now it seems the buck has been passed yet again.

Since the focus of all my correspondence has actually been about the Coop’s failure to make it clear that exemptions from wearing masks apply to many people and that exempt people should not be challenged by either staff or other customers, forgive me if I’m not assured on the 12 August by a vague promise to pass ‘feedback on for me’. For me? Really?

The mask mandate has been in force since 24 July and the Coop has done little or nothing to reassure people who need to shop in your stores that they will not be bullied or harassed for not wearing a mask. I already know that this has taken place in two stores and it’s not hard to imagine that it’s universal. All it takes is a simple exemption notice in the doorway along with the mandatory mask one which you had no trouble putting up in short order.

Mask-wearing for people with health issues has been shown to be dangerous, for some people, very much so. I have witnessed people in obvious distress trying to comply with this mandate. Despite your claim, the health, safety and well-being of your customers seems to be of little or no concern to the Coop. In other words, this claim is meaningless.

Please could you stop fobbing me off and obtain an immediate promise from whoever is in charge, that exemption notices will be put up in High Peak Coop stores with immediate effect.

Yours,

87729 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #447 of 1303 🔗

Do. Not. Mess. With. Miriam.

87733 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #448 of 1303 🔗

Watch it, you! 🙂

87759 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #449 of 1303 🔗

Do they not play the pre-recorded message that I heard in a Co-op that urged customers not to hassle non-mask wearers? It was very good and put me right at ease.

88174 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ed Phillips, #450 of 1303 🔗

We’ve got that in our Coop too – made me more relaxed about going in.

88203 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 2, #451 of 1303 🔗

To Ruth and Ed. Apparently there is a recorded message but it’s inaudible in all 3 of our local stores as I’ve pointed out to them in my previous correspondence. ( I guess the PA systems are crap.)

All I’m asking for is a simple notice on the door!

88461 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ed Phillips, #452 of 1303 🔗

There are pre-recorded messages (using a soft, female voice) for public transport in Montreal which requests that you put on your mask once you get on the bus or metro car. Social distancing is impossible on the buses, though, its cheek by jowl and standing room only most of the time. Like rush hour in Tokyo. That’s when I decided to re-acquaint myself with my bicycle for the rest of the summer.

88035 ▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #453 of 1303 🔗

Your persistence is awesome!

87722 Eddie, 7, #454 of 1303 🔗

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to social distancing! I want one of those signs now!

87739 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #455 of 1303 🔗

They’ve just found three positive cases nearish to me. 3 nightshift workers all nicely isolated and contacts tracked now.
I guess that means they might not lift the local mockdown. 🙁

Found out from my MP’s fb page. The comments are very disheartening. A couple of sceptics, one trying his best with facts and links, being shot down in flames by someone who’s had it and is still “greatly suffering”, plus loads who are convinced it’s worse than flu. Lost cause I’m afraid.

87742 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #456 of 1303 🔗

Are they really ‘cases’ i,e, ill or just people who’ve tested positive, whatever that’s worth? Bad luck, anyway. It’s about time people made the connection between getting tested and getting locked-down. Vain hope, I’m afraid.

88140 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #457 of 1303 🔗

Bloody testing!
No cases tested positive in the whole of Kirklees today though.
Ridiculous numbers game!

87754 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sarigan, 1, #459 of 1303 🔗

Meanwhile, back at our very own Public Health Act…

87792 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #460 of 1303 🔗

I was already suspicious when they started talking about Public Health rather than National Health some years ago, reeks of socialism.

87796 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 2, #461 of 1303 🔗

Can’t be arsed looking now, but pretty sure it’s full of ‘removing/detaining infectious persons’ shit. Even the masks in shops law has a clause about Police using ‘reasonable force’. It’s all there, just waiting.

87789 ▶▶ EssieSW, replying to Sarigan, 1, #462 of 1303 🔗

WTF? They have, what, 3 cases?

88144 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #463 of 1303 🔗

The woman’s clearly a psychopath!

87748 kf99, replying to kf99, 8, #464 of 1303 🔗

Neil Oliver yesterday. There are other things to be afraid of apart from Covid-19
From about 8:30 but all worth listening to obviously. He’s definitely a skeptic.

88182 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to kf99, 1, #465 of 1303 🔗

He is – he ‘had’ to resign from National Trust Scotland (or some such organisation) for not towing the party line and not being politically correct, including not kow-towing to the SNP. He is great!

87755 Simon, replying to Simon, 12, #466 of 1303 🔗

My poor mother who is in her mid seventies has consumed nothing but the BBC for years and has been terrified to the point she was isolating. She’s had no underlying health conditions at all and has been fine for years…..

But, she has started to come around bit by bit, but its taken months. Anyway, I digress.

She was saying things like new normal, and how its going to have to be like this forever. To which I replied that’s the end of the human race.

It’s impossible for people to meet and procreate and therefore there will be no more people. I mean sex from a 2m distance is absolutely impossible unless you are a whale…..

So, I have a hypothesis… people will bring us out of this. Single people will want to go out and have sex with other people. Ok, maybe not just single people. But especially younger ones who would normally be going out wanting to pull. Celebacy won’t last forever.

I was thinking of suggesting Toby launches a Lockdown Sceptics Hookup site, but I’ve had a look at the dating one and maybe he has already 😉

87795 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Simon, 5, #467 of 1303 🔗

Does she remember Hong Kong flu? Did life change forever after that?

If she’s anything like my parents (70-odd) they don’t even remember it happening, despite being 18 and off to university the year it struck.

87805 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #468 of 1303 🔗

Is that the one that occurred in 1957?

Nope don’t remember it and I was ten. The secondary school I went on to attend in 1958 had a third of it’s pupils off with flu in the influenza epidemic of 1957. It did not close. All the staff had just gone through a war what was an influenza epidemic to them?

87829 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #469 of 1303 🔗

Think it was Asian flu in 57, Hong Kong in 68/69.

87843 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to A. Contrarian, #470 of 1303 🔗

Thank you for the clarification.

88158 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #471 of 1303 🔗

Both my parents were ill with the HK flu. I remember they spent a couple of days in bed and my brother and I coped but don’t remember anything more about it. There certainly wasn’t a huge drama. They got ill, they got better, life went on.

88354 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, #472 of 1303 🔗

Those were the days…

87887 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #473 of 1303 🔗

1957-1958 Asian flu pandemic
1968-1970 Hong Kong flu pandemic

88464 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to p02099003, #474 of 1303 🔗

68-70, first years of high school, I remember it being on the telly but far too busy having fun to take any notice.

87824 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #475 of 1303 🔗

I was in my second year at grammar school in 1968 and don’t recall a thing and yet I remember things like the Aberfan tragedy, two years prior to that.
i have to confess that I did have brown knickers in 1968, but they were part of the school uniform!

87830 ▶▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #476 of 1303 🔗

I was 5 yo in the winter of 68/69. I do remember my mom being laid up at home for a week or so after New Year and being told I couldn’t go into her bedroom for a hug because she had brought HK flu home from work! But I also remember going away to Belgium – my first time abroad – with my parents a few weeks later so it couldn’t have been life-threatening nor were the borders shut.

I came across an old newspaper in her shed about 15 years later from Jan 1969 which had an inside page devoted to the epidemic. It was very matter of fact but in no way comparable to today’s fear porn.

Just different times I guess. That generation still had childhood memories of WW2 deprivations so a flu epidemic was probably not such a big deal.

87896 ▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to LGDTLK, 5, #477 of 1303 🔗

It was life threatening – 80,000 people died in a population of 55 million – it’s just back then they had a sense of proportion AND it was an age of freedom where a domestic coup would have been unthinkable.

87833 ▶▶▶ Simon, replying to A. Contrarian, #478 of 1303 🔗

Funnily enough she doesn’t. Didn’t have enough impact I guess…

87889 ▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #479 of 1303 🔗

Woodstock took place during the Hong Kong flu. That generation made of stronger stuff.

87893 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #480 of 1303 🔗

I caught both the 57 and 68 bugs. And wouldn’t want them again. Generally far worse than Covid. But life went on.

I’ve only done the detailed calculation from 1993/4, but even in that period, there have been seven or eight years with worse mortality – without accounting for the fact that this past year was in great part merely the trigger for death amongst a larger than usual vulnerable population, a lot of whom would have died within the year anyway.

Going back over my whole lifetime, I guess that there will have been at least two dozen worse seasons of mortality.

So – as said – what the f. Is this pantomime about if it’s definitely not about health and disease? – which it clearly isn’t.

87929 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to RickH, #481 of 1303 🔗

Rick, If you haven’t done so, take into account population changes as well. The UK population has increased about 14% since 2000 (if we believe the official figures).

DavidC

87928 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to A. Contrarian, #482 of 1303 🔗

Same with me. I’m pretty sure I had HK flu (very bad and hallucinations) but Mum neither remembers the flu nor me having it! It was just another infection and I had time off school until I was well enough to go back.

I’ve had flu three times – like Rick below, it’s not NICE!

DavidC

87835 ▶▶ microdave, replying to Simon, 1, #483 of 1303 🔗

It’s impossible for people to meet and procreate

If peoples faces are obscured, surely that must also reduce the likelihood of getting together in the first place? Although I suppose there will now be cases of “Love at first sight” which will quickly dissolve when the masks come off…

87847 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to microdave, 1, #484 of 1303 🔗

I dunno, I’m getting more interest from tinder now that my selfie has a mask.

87931 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Cicatriz, #485 of 1303 🔗

I’ll have to try that then!

88030 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to microdave, 2, #486 of 1303 🔗

There were those
Who said Maisie had an ugly nose.
I couldn’t see the nose.
My passion rose.
But the death
Of our romance was her bad breath
Which got through the mask –
A very easy task.

88031 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to microdave, 1, #487 of 1303 🔗

I’ll stick with my tried ‘n’ tested paper bag thanks.

87905 ▶▶ Will, replying to Simon, 1, #488 of 1303 🔗

Single people didn’t stop having sex, the rate of STIs didn’t DUP during lockdown. That 30% admitted anonymously to breaking lockdown indicates that the majority probably did and the virus has died out because we have reached herd immunity exactly as Professor Levitt said we would if we didn’t lock down too early.

88025 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Simon, 7, #489 of 1303 🔗

Not just single people, or even young people necessarily. Bear with me, overheard in a shop recently, a middle-aged couple in the queue before me:

Shop Assistant (SA): Haven’t you got a card sir?
Male customer: I haven’t got a bank account, only cash.
SA: How do you get your money? It’s all paid into bank accounts these days.
Male customer: It’s paid into my wife’s bank account.
SA: Oh I see. [Turns to Female customer] You have a card then, Madam?
Female customer: I’m not his wife.

87762 PWL, 2, #490 of 1303 🔗

The Public Health England adjusted reckoning of Covid-19 is a straw man. Covid-19 is a pneumonia with a specific cause. The official death toll is way off because it’s an aspect of a psychological operation, not a reflection of anything real.

Track and Trace, and the difference between Covid-19 and “from/with coronavirus”:
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/05/track-and-trace-and-the-difference-between-covid-19-and-from-with-coronavirus/

.

87764 MDH, replying to MDH, 14, #491 of 1303 🔗

Just got this response to my lambasting the government’s ridiculous masks in galleries law over at The Times:

Why ridiculous? Are you also a immunologist as well as a sociopath?

We’re so far from defeating this attitude. Still, don’t give up!

87783 ▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to MDH, 6, #492 of 1303 🔗

I bet your armchair abuser was always a nasty little Hitler. I am delighted that you further provoked their ire. Keep it up!

They are never going to love you so what have you to lose…?

87784 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to MDH, 6, #493 of 1303 🔗

Naw. Give up. (Especially online). The people who are like this are irredeemable and not worth wasting your time on (again- especially online).

Spend your pennies on the Comfortably Unbothereds- or those people who know it’s all bullshit but are just going along for an easy life. They make up the vast majority of mask-wearers /antisocial distancers and are very easily brought round with a little push.

87766 PWL, 4, #494 of 1303 🔗

People need to start making such connections:
“Once, collect scrap metal; now, wear a mask”: http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/08/once-collect-scrap-metal-now-wear-a-mask-when-is-uk-government-going-to-pay-for-its-crime/

87769 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #495 of 1303 🔗

Health Service Journal today
Exclusive: Lockdown patch sees surge in ‘excess deaths’
By Tom Norton13 August 2020
The rate of “excess deaths” in Leicester and Leicestershire was significantly higher than anywhere else in England in the most recent five-week period, according to official statistics.

Sadly, the detail is stashed behind a rather high paywall but I get the gist allright.

87808 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #496 of 1303 🔗

Yes. Interesting compared to Leicester Mercury news today:

“NHS bosses say no patients with coronavirus have died at the Leicester Royal Infirmary, General or Glenfield hospitals for more than a fortnight.
The University Hospitals of Leicester NHS Trust (UHL), has said the last person with the virus to pass away while being cared for at a city hospital was on July 27.”
Also
“The trust also says that despite infection rates in the city remaining several times higher than the national average, few Covid-19 patients are being admitted to the city hospitals.”

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/no-coronavirus-related-deaths-reported-4421239

Still not allowing visits to relatives in hospital.

87872 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lucky, 3, #497 of 1303 🔗

One word : Nonsense.

87876 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to RickH, 2, #498 of 1303 🔗

I’m in Leicester. I read you were in hospital. Are you allowed visitors where you are?

87777 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 11, #499 of 1303 🔗

Coronavirus poll: Only 42% of Americans say they will take the vaccine, a new low

If you were to take the mainstream media (MSM) at face value, you might assume a COVID-19 vaccine is the “magic bullet” needed to stop the current coronavirus pandemic.

The thing is, far more people are wary about vaccines and a vaccine mandate than the media wants to admit.

According to their results, only 42 percent of Americans said YES to this question . This is a HUGE drop from just two months earlier, when 55 percent of Americans polled said they would get a vaccine.

And the more people are educated about the potential dangers about the coronavirus vaccine push, the more people will be willing to say no…making it all that much harder to push yet another vaccine mandate on our country.

https://www.naturalhealth365.com/covid-19-treatment-3514.html

87787 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Victoria, 3, #500 of 1303 🔗

Good to hear, though maybe poll a bit biased based on who sponsored it?

87873 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, #501 of 1303 🔗

Yes – good point.

87778 karenovirus, 5, #502 of 1303 🔗

Anyone come across a good Downfall/Covid spoof ?

Hitler/Boris “You told me the proles
were too stupid to see there was no fucking Virus !”

Cummings/Heidrich “they’re all thick as shit, they will beg to take the vaccine if you promise them lots of drugs or sex.”

87782 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 15, #503 of 1303 🔗

Brilliant summary Toby.

Hope people caught Professor David Spiegelhalter on Radio 4, the Today programme at 7.37am

I suggested in the comments earlier that people in the LS world contact BBC journalists, to make sure they had listened to what the Professor said. Maybe an onslaught of emails to MP’s. I wondered if things like Spiegelhalter’s words on the flagship Today programmme might carry more weight than endless scientists pitting statistics against each other. I’ll be emailing Sir Graham Brady, who seems sceptical.

This is what he said: “PHE reported 72 deaths on August 11. If you look at NHS England the figure reported is 1 death. That might go up to 5. The claim of 72 is just nonsense. People have been watching this daily figure and haven’t realised just how ridiculous it is. Our death rate is going to plummet by 80-90% tomorrow”. (he then goes on to explain how, by the same measure, Scotland’s figures should go up)….Nick Robinson asks if this is why we are more cautious as a nation, less likely to go to work than any other European nation, the danger is we are over-reacting (!!)… He replies by saying we’ve done really badly, high death toll but “the current communication of risks and deaths is vital. Communication has been so poor….the PHE dashboard has been terrible. The BBC have been just as bad. On the news last week they said on average 58 people die every day from the virus.  That’s terrible. It was about 15-20. The media has been responsible for not reporting the figures responsibly, increasing people’s anxiety unnecessarily.”

Robinson concludes by saying “must do better”!!

87853 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Marie R, 3, #504 of 1303 🔗

This is great to see. Scotland’s reporting systems appear as opaque as everwhere else for political gain.

Just drawing attention to the farce against the agenda messaging is a triumph. A beginning of more to come I hope.

87793 Matt Mounsey, replying to Matt Mounsey, 5, #505 of 1303 🔗

Whilst the government’s revising down of the death figures are a small step in the right direction, they shouldn’t lend legitimacy to these propaganda figures.

What does “deaths involving Covid-19” have to do with anything? How do we know they didn’t die with several other coronaviruses in their bodies?

We need autopsies to determine the cause of death. Otherwise there will always be Covid deaths because people will die after a false positive on the PCR test. We need to utterly reject these figures and pour scorn on anyone that cites them to influence people and policy.

87828 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Matt Mounsey, 4, #506 of 1303 🔗

No you don’t need autopsies. Just read the ONS figures instead, where the figures for deaths with only CV19 on the certs are recorded. I can’t be bothered to look them up again, but about 3 weeks ago there were 556 in the 79-80 age range, 448 in the over 80, 3 in the under 20, and a couple of hundred sprinkled along the range 20-70. This is what people wittering on about the ‘real’ deaths mean.
PHE is a creature of the Lansley reforms to the NHS which has not covered itself in glory in this debacle.

87844 ▶▶▶ Matt Mounsey, replying to Bruno, 5, #507 of 1303 🔗

But the ONS figures are meaningless. They cite any death where the patient tested positive on the PCR or even just had respiratory symptoms as a Covid death. Due to the false positives and the relaxed standards of certification that were put in place only for the “emergency period”, we’re never going to eliminate this virus and the saga will continue throughout the winter months.

We need to take Russia’s lead and do autopsies to show that the virus has been eliminated. So we can get on with our lives rather than let the government and media panic mongers run amok.

87883 ▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to Matt Mounsey, 3, #508 of 1303 🔗

They don’t want us to get on with our lives. That’s the point of the whole scam.

87961 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Matt Mounsey, #509 of 1303 🔗

.

87968 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Matt Mounsey, 1, #510 of 1303 🔗

As I have pointed out before on this site, if, to take a typical example, you had at the height of the epidemic an 87 year old in hospital or care home with a broken neck bone which hasn’t healed for 6 months (& won’t, ever), so has been in a neck brace that long, a persistent urinary infection, is now dehydrated and possibly also has dementia (25.6% of the 40+K deaths did) , and then they finally die, with a new dry cough, chest pains like glass shards and fever, frankly you are not going to cart off the body to a special bio secure autopsy room (they don’t even have any to the international standard in Italy) to see what happened in their lungs. As a compassionate doctor, who knows ‘there’s a lot of it about’ (which there was, and is, except it isn’t doing most folks any harm) you are going to issue a death cert, including on it CV19, as you must since it is a notifiable disease, along with the other contributory conditions, and let their grieving relatives get on with conducting a sadly distanced funeral. I would not, frankly, take Russia’s lead on anything whatever.

88127 ▶▶▶▶▶ Matt Mounsey, replying to Sylvie, #511 of 1303 🔗

The reason I would suggest that this situation is different is because of the drastic measures the government have taken.

Even you as a doctor are citing the “40+k deaths”. Well, what does “40+k” mean? Because the government and media are telling us that 40+k people have died of this disease and not making the distinction to dying with the Sars Cov-2 virus in their bodies. As I’m sure you know there are many viruses in any given person’s body.

Whilst I’m sure you are correct that the proper and decent thing is to send the body on the way to the family, there is a far more pressing need to establish the true virulence and lethality of this new threat BEFORE taking drastic action. Furthermore, now that the virus is on the wane and there are much fewer deaths, surely it makes sense to actually establish the cause of death rather than start locking down parts of the country because of a few more cases and so-called deaths.

Finally, to suggest that a policy decision is unwise because of the country that initiated it shows obvious unprofessional bias. The policy is good or bad on its merits.

88002 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Matt Mounsey, #512 of 1303 🔗

No they do both. Sylvie gave the numbers.

The virus will never be eliminated anyway. The only reason to do autopsies is for research purposes to understand the disease better. Some have been done for this purpose.

There are various ways to estimate the impact of the virus. Deaths with Covid and deaths where in the opinion of a doctor or two Covid was an insufficient but necessary part of unnecessary but sufficient conditions of death are both recorded, as are excess deaths. Excess deaths is not perfect but is probably the best one to use, although all have some information content.

87888 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Matt Mounsey, 4, #513 of 1303 🔗

Autopsies and inquests were effectively banned by the legislation.

87912 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to p02099003, #514 of 1303 🔗

and you wonder why

87801 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #515 of 1303 🔗

For those in Greater Manchester, a look at Burnham’s twitter thing will show you he’s going all out to maintain the fear, push test and trace (including home visits), preferably shut the pubs if he can, and now wants people to be paid for two weeks while they isolate.
To do all this, he needs your personal details – your future is in your hands. Well, a bit of it is.

87840 ▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #516 of 1303 🔗

Burnham was a fully paid up member of Blair’s post 9/11 dystopian vision – 56 day lockup of suspected terrorists, permanent retention of DNA of anyone arrested – innocent or not, mandatory ID cards. So he has form. Whilst loathing lockdowns of any sort, I am deeply apprehensive about devolving these powers to local mayors and council leaders. They tend to be elected on low turnouts so largely lack any real democratic mandate and like Burnham and Khan cleave to an authoritarian, nannying style of governance which is anathema to most of us.

87849 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to LGDTLK, 2, #517 of 1303 🔗

Give our local lot power, and they will just want to use it, whether necessary or not. Tinpot Hitlers.

87863 ▶▶▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #518 of 1303 🔗

We’re out in Sutton Coldfield on rhecedge of the green belt – reluctantly part of the Birmingham CC area. Labour run. – although we have a local West Midlands Mayor – Andy Street – who’s a bit of a Boris fanboy. Also surrounded by Labour met areas Sandwell and Wolverhampton. There have barely been any cases in our leafy suburb but I suspect if there’s some manufactured “spike” in one of the more densely populated inner city suburbs we’re going to find ourselves swept up in a local lockdown much like what has happened in Greater Manchester.

87908 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to LGDTLK, 1, #519 of 1303 🔗

He is also the ultimate career politician, his own political interests come first, not those he represents. A most slimy individual, devolving extra power to such a type won’t end well.

87809 richard riewer, 1, #520 of 1303 🔗

Revised figures, eh? What’s that all about? More jerking us around? Sadists.

87812 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 8, #521 of 1303 🔗

Update from Dublin. Went to Argos to collect a new phone (Argos are operating sales by reservation only) with a person at the door asking if I had a reservation before directing me into the store. I was expecting to be asked about a mask but wasn’t. Most customers were masked.

Got home and started setting up the phone – Google Play Store suggested I download the Covid tracking app 🙁 (I declined).

On the plus side, my lockdown supporting Dad, in local lockdown in Kildare, is proposing to break the lockdown at the weekend to travel to his holiday house! Strangely though, he hasn’t told me (the family skeptic) – I found out from my sister, whose husband he is planning to travel with!

87848 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ewan Duffy, #522 of 1303 🔗

Virgin Cellular cut me off from the internet on my LGG5 early last June and I still get Google messages. The most recent is a data usage warning message. I even get Google messages on my MotoG and I haven’t been connected with Fido for four years.

88023 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #523 of 1303 🔗

Here’s wishing him a pleasant stay in his holiday home.

87813 Bruno, replying to Bruno, 8, #524 of 1303 🔗

That’s so sweet, PHE pulled off a complete Colette Bowe moment there, surely no one believes it took more than 10 minutes of computer time to correct the figures. They’ve been waiting for weeks in someone’s (figurative) desk drawer for the exam results to come out, surely.

87842 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bruno, 3, #525 of 1303 🔗

Yep. I posted my guess at what the database SQL query would be a couple of weeks ago.

In all likelihood, all kinds of different queries would already exist to get different views of the data. They were cherry picking.

And of course, as you say, waiting for a good day to bury inconvenient news.

87852 ▶▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #526 of 1303 🔗

Exactly what I thought. At 7 years retirement after a career in IT I reckon I could have knocked up the necessary SQL in half a day. And you’re bang on about burying the news. This should be the biggest story out there today yet you’d be hard pressed to find any mention of it on the main news websites. I’m no conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer, 5G whatever but increasingly it seems to me that there is an agenda to keep the fear level ratcheted up.

87831 Stephen Biddle, 7, #527 of 1303 🔗

Notice how the BBC reports the reduction as a percentage. This after they list two numbers, both over 40,000. They are playing this down, and can spend ages today talking about A level ‘exam’ results from exams that didn’t take place.

87836 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #528 of 1303 🔗

Great article!
Face Masks: What Does The Science Really Say? .
.
Face Masks Studies Are Ignoring the Real World

Studies done in ‘real world settings’, such as hospitals, tend to conclude that face masks, especially cloth masks and surgical masks are ineffective or offer no scientifically significant benefits. Yet when learning about the effectiveness of face masks, we usually read about lab studies where participants are coughing to a petri dish instead of examining real world effectiveness and real world use in real world settings.

All we hear is that wearing anything is better than something. Many suggest that even wearing a bandana or scarf is okay. However, when you look at the science this seems to be not true or at least not that simple. Yes, research shows that face masks can reduce the forward-spreading of droplets and aerosols, however, the same aerosols and droplets can escape on the sides of the masks. Face masks cannot spread the escape and entering of single viruses from the air. Due to moisture, airflow, and trapped droplets, face masks, especially cloth face masks, may even increase your risk of infection.

One recent headline was tooting the benefits of wearing face masks and their potential to reduce the spread of COVID-19 by 75 percent. That sounds great, doesn’t it? It does until you look at the actual research. The study was done on hamsters. Some hamsters were infected with the virus and were placed in cages next to the cages of healthy hamsters. In some cases, there was a surgical mask between the uninfected and infected masks.

Even though it seems that the masks lowered infection rates in hamsters, this is not a real world study. We are not hamsters living in cages separated by face masks. We are human beings living our lives, working, studying, socializing, and doing activities indoors and outdoors. Face masks do not separate us, they are merely on our face if and when we choose to wear them.

Lots more

https://drjockers.com/face-masks

87868 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Victoria, 2, #529 of 1303 🔗

Do masks have an effect?

As I’m in Ireland I’m following closely what impact the masking edict is having here.

The edict was announced on the 15th, July – but actually didn’t become law until the 10th August – most people seemed to respond as though it was instantly the law on the 15th July when it was announced.

The weekly number of “cases” are now four times what they were before the edict! So seemingly no success there. Though I suspect “cases” are very much a product of testing.

Hospital admissions seem to be increasing. They were low to begin with – only 2 – in the week up to the edict and 3 in the week after. But last week they’ve risen to 19.

Deaths – they appear to be decreasing. From around 10 in the week of the edict – to 3 or 5 last week. (Sorry for being impressive but the figures are presented in a muddled fashion on the Irish Government’s website.)

Make of that what you will.

87881 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 4, #530 of 1303 🔗

But the main thing is that infections are at such a low level that the whole idea is barmy, anyway. Because figures of ‘cases’ are so exaggerated, you would have to have close contact with thousands of individuals to come across a real Covid virus.

88021 ▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 3, #531 of 1303 🔗

Many masked zombies look exactly like hamsters.
With apologies to real hamsters, who are nice little guys on the whole.

87839 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 19, #532 of 1303 🔗

Just been to my local Sainsbury’s in keighley. It was depressing, it was pretty busy and I was the only person, and I mean the only one, without a face mask. Some guy pointed to me and said ‘wear a face covering’ but I didn’t say anything as I got the impression that he had some mental health issues. It was depressing though, I am shocked by the compliance. Then on way home we had to stop at the pelican and there was a guy waiting to cross with mask under chin, he pulled up the mask to cross the road and then pulled it down again on the other side! What’s all that about? I’m a southerner living in Yorkshire and I’m always told about soft southerners and Yorkshire grit, well, I don’t see much Yorkshire grit in keighley.

87862 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Moomin, 10, #533 of 1303 🔗

Depressing isn’t it.

I’ve just had a work call with a colleague tbh I try to ignore her but I was trapped, she was droning on about how people should be wearing their mask properly ‘they don’t even cover their nose!! We need a baby shark song, you know a catchy tune so people don’t forget HOW TO WEAR A MASK blah blah winge winge it’s only a mask no big deal…’

Hmm I said.

87986 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Moomin, 2, #534 of 1303 🔗

Try Whitby/Saltburn-by-the-Sea area. Was there yesterday and saw only three face guards, no masks, at Saltburn. Whitby did have masks but only signs reminding of the government recommendation…which they wouldn’t be enforcing. Have to admit to admiring a face shield with jewels stuck on. If you have to wear one for work at least wear it with style and a big smile

87845 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 7, #535 of 1303 🔗

Never mind Emily Morgan on ITV if you want to be really irritated try listening to Dr Sarah Jarvis on the Jeremy Vine R2 lunchtime show. She has been Miss Catastrophe from the very start and she was banging on the other day about other Covid effects that sounded just like post-viral fatigue.

87902 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Bill Hickling, 6, #536 of 1303 🔗

Can’t stand that bitch Jarvis. Worse than Dr Hilary for doom-mongering.

87983 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Gillian, 3, #537 of 1303 🔗

I was always amazed she knew soddin’ absolutely everything about all medical conditions, so do I it’ s called Dr. Google.I imagine it is hers too!

88049 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 2, #538 of 1303 🔗

Your words represent my thoughts exactly about these two. Both have a repellent manner not commensurate to how they perceive themselves. Not balanced individuals, not ones I would trust with health matters.

88053 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Basics, #539 of 1303 🔗

Serious question, why and how do the bad ‘uns always seem to rise to the top. Why cant there be a real meritocracy? Sorry for undergrad type question, but I am genuinely curious.

88224 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to DressageRider, #540 of 1303 🔗

The bad’uns lie better, and are less concerned about whether something they need to say to get ahead is actually true or not.

88274 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DressageRider, #541 of 1303 🔗

Simple anthropology. Say 5% of us are psychopaths. The rest of us have empathy. All that is needed to propel into ‘leadership’ is a lack of empathy. At every point on a career path empathy restricts.

The old way and clear way of saying the same thing is those with sharp elbows get to the front.

It appears to be a glitch in the human species as natural as order and entropy; a natural conflict that gives life dynamism. You see it in other animals too.

88164 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Basics, 1, #542 of 1303 🔗

…not ones I wouild trust.

Stop there, it’s more accurate.

87907 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bill Hickling, 5, #543 of 1303 🔗

Can’t listen to that program especially when Dr Sarah Jarvis is on. No dissent is allowed and she cuts people off in the middle of a sentence Dr Jarvis is a pharmaceutical shill. She has a nutritional qualification but sneer at it and at anything non-pharmaceutical, also firmly believe the vaccine dogma and advocate it.

Post viral fatigue is well known for more than 40 years and people get that after a particular serious viral attack. It is NOT new and NOT linked to Covid-19 only. Shame on her.

88016 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bill Hickling, 3, #544 of 1303 🔗

They tell me that
You get more Covid if you are fat,
But whether you are thin, average or very stout,
It always makes your hair fall out

88068 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bill Hickling, #545 of 1303 🔗

Simon Dolan has called her out on Twitter several times.

Thank God I don’t have a telly so I don’t have to watch the abomination that is breakfast TV.

88199 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #546 of 1303 🔗

Watching breakfast tv isn’t actually mandatory.

Never watched any but I’ve always thought it must be a pernicious way to start the day.

88202 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #547 of 1303 🔗

Used to watch it back at uni for the weather reports – that was it. Then moved into a house that had no telly and never looked back since.

88207 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bill Hickling, 1, #548 of 1303 🔗

Hate her. Would gladly meet her at a dark spot.

87851 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 1, #549 of 1303 🔗

Net Zero.

87856 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to richard riewer, #550 of 1303 🔗

Maybe this whole thing is a dry run for it.

87857 TyRade, 6, #551 of 1303 🔗

Learn to count, stop buggering up the data, save lives

87859 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #552 of 1303 🔗

A couple of items from The Telegraph live feed giving conflicting views on the so-called second wave:

UK ‘does not have enough herd immunity’ to prevent a second wave of Covid-19

A health [“]expert[“] has warned there is not currently enough immunity within the population of the UK to prevent a second wave of infection.

Dr Lilith Whittles, postdoctoral researcher in infectious disease epidemiology at Imperial College London, said calculating the infection rate – known as R – on a regional level is going to be “our best signifier” as to whether a second wave of coronavirus has started.

She agreed that the quick and proper management of local outbreaks would be the UK’s best way to prevent a second wave, and that not doing this could lead to a “similar-sized” peak to the peak seen in April.

Speaking on the results of the largest study on home coronavirus antibody testing, led by Imperial College London, Dr Whittles said: “We’re nowhere near the level of population immunity that we would need to prevent the occurrence of a second wave.

“In a worst-case scenario of a second wave we could see a peak of a similar size to the first.”

But then:

New data suggests the UK is not at the start of a second wave of Covid-19

The UK is not at the beginning of a second coronavirus wave, and is still trying to end the first, new data suggests.

There were 1,434 daily new cases in the UK on average over the two weeks up to August 8, excluding care homes, according to the latest Covid Symptom Study app figures.

The latest figures are based on the data from 10,988 swab tests that were taken between July 26 and August 8.

The latest prevalence figures estimate 24,131 people in the UK currently have symptoms of Covid-19, a figure that has remained stable nationally.

Tim Spector, professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London, told the PA News agency:

It’s encouraging to see that the numbers are coming down slightly across the UK and that the isolated outbreaks in the North of England appear to be well contained so far.

This is further confirmation that we aren’t at the beginning of a second wave and rather, still trying to end the first. The figures also suggest that the outbreaks we are seeing in other countries such as Belgium, France and Spain aren’t having an effect here in the UK yet.

On top of this, the hot weather which caused concern by making many flock to crowded beaches and parks doesn’t seem to be having the predicted negative impact.

Overall, we are pleasantly surprised by the figures this week, which are back down to the early July levels and hope that the good news continues.

So I wonder what the actual situation is?

87864 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, 9, #553 of 1303 🔗

OH, she works for Imperial College – no conflict of interest there then.

88201 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #554 of 1303 🔗

R for red herring too.

87865 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 6, #555 of 1303 🔗

“calculating the infection rate – known as R – on a regional level is going to be “our best signifier”

What a f.ing know-nothing. There seem to be a significant proportion of those who have studied epidemiology in a narrow sheltered world who have a tremendous overestimate of their ability, and a corresponding low level of general scientific skills.

William Farr must be turning in his grave.

87870 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #556 of 1303 🔗

P.S. Spikes and stochastic variation with low numbers are indicators of nothing. Simple basic probability – and ‘second waves’ are not certain concomitants of epidemics by a long chalk. Once again go to CEBM for good information.

87877 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 4, #557 of 1303 🔗

R rate reintroduced to guide narrative. No coincidence. I feel psychologically nudged today. 1.3 R here in krankies uptopian land of horrors. That’s headline news, because one model suggested it today.

Keep an eye out for more R.

Returning to R rates feels like a stale idea. Are they struggling against short attenion spans to keep their illusion going.

87906 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, 1, #558 of 1303 🔗

W.M. Briggs did a great piece on the R value a month or two ago. I can’t find the link now but if I do I will post it.

The R value (whether it’s R0, ‘the R value’ or ‘the real time R) is meaningless without the CFR or case fatality rate. There’s a hell of a difference between an ‘R value’ of, say, 2 and a CFR=0% and R=2, CFR=100%!

DavidC

87909 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 3, #559 of 1303 🔗

Spot on – R rates + Cases = Fictions.

87866 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 4, #560 of 1303 🔗

Another week, another doom prophecy from ICL. Sponsored by…

87869 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Tenchy, 10, #561 of 1303 🔗

Not sure where these jokers at Imperial have been over the past few months…up their own rectums maybe? However they keep conveniently ignoring all the studies on T-cell immunity and calculating population immunity from antibody rates. Just adding to the dross coming out of this failed institution!

88235 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to DocRC, #562 of 1303 🔗

Seriously – how can supposed experts in a field at this level just repeatedly ignore such important and widely disseminated and accepted, relevant data, and not just get openly laughed at when they make assertions that are clear nonsense?

87875 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tenchy, 10, #563 of 1303 🔗

And if there is not enough herd immunity, whose fucking fault is it? (Rhetorical)

87897 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 8, #564 of 1303 🔗

“Speaking on the results of the largest study on home coronavirus antibody testing, led by Imperial College London, Dr Whittles said: “We’re nowhere near the level of population immunity that we would need to prevent the occurrence of a second wave.”

So if the herd immunity threshold is much higher than where are are now, how do they explain that infections are not rising exponentially, as they were before lockdown, given we have largely opened up?

87911 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #565 of 1303 🔗

Silly boy! Masks, of course!

87918 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, 4, #566 of 1303 🔗

Because it’s summer. Even though it’s not seasonal so we can’t be complacent. But watch out because WINTER IS COMING!!

87923 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #567 of 1303 🔗

Once again, it’s not like the flu except when it is.

87910 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, 8, #568 of 1303 🔗

If we’re “nowhere near” the level of population immunity we need she needs to explain why the second wave hasn’t happened yet even though restrictions were lifted some time ago, why there are 5x more deaths from other viruses, and why only 10% of people with Covid symptoms are testing positive.

Evidently in the current state of people’s behaviour viruses can spread. Perhaps less than normal for this time of year, but nothing like enough what you would need to suppress a highly infectious virus to which 95% were still susceptible.

It is clear that susceptibility has to be lower than the antibody studies indicate. There are several plausible reasons for this: We know there is substantial cross immunity from other coronaviruses, and that the levels of antibodies are not that high for that long especially in cases of mild infection. This does not mean people are not immune (they still have memory cells). If they did lose immunity we would expect to have seen many cases of confirmed reinfection by now.

87920 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to guy153, 1, #569 of 1303 🔗

Have these points ever been put to the “experts” by anyone in the MSM? I can’t recall ever seeing it.

So is it plausible that in places like the UK, Spain, Germany, France and so on, there’ll be a continuing ‘background’ of infections for a very long time?

87940 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 1, #570 of 1303 🔗

Like nits. Big deal.

87971 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, 3, #571 of 1303 🔗

Yes there will be a background level of infection everywhere for the foreseeable future. It doesn’t die out completely because new hosts keep being born.

NL63 for example is another coronavirus that came from bats. It also binds to the ACE2 receptor and can cause a nasty viral pneumonia.

We can estimate how long ago the original pandemic was from the number of neutral mutations in its genome from its relatives. It works out to around 1000 years ago.

Every winter a few people get NL63. Also in the summer only fewer. Some die. Even in New Zealand. The R number of NL63 has been about 1 since the time of the Norman conquest. SARS2 has just joined the club.

87980 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to guy153, 1, #572 of 1303 🔗

Thank you! My next question is, do young children become infected and recover from a huge number of these viruses en route to adulthood, (and humanity needs to keep passing them around in youth), so most people have contracted NL63 and recovered already? Or are just a few very old people unlucky enough to contract it, and if so, why?

88310 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sylvie, #573 of 1303 🔗

Good question. I think what probably happens is we all get reinfected with them every few years but usually only mildly as we have memory T and B cells so quickly recreate the antibodies.

The first time you have each one as a child it’s probably worse. And when you get old you tend to get colds worse again as your immune system is getting a bit tired (“immunosenescence” it’s called).

Most of the T cell studies found cross reactivity to SARS2 in about half of people. So why only half if you can have this from any HCoV? You’d think most people would have had all the HCoVs at some point but maybe not. Or perhaps the immune memory of the other HCoVs is not always so strong as they are less severe.

Basically you keep cloning B and T cells until you get better and some proportion of them become memory cells. So you should generally end up with a stronger memory of the bad ones.

The recent UCL study that found the actual humoral cross immunity seemed to be saying the S2 epitope (the bit of the spike that the antibodies stick to) was conserved across all the HCoVs but perhaps some are better than others as a natural vaccine against SARS2.

And of course there may be more HCoVs out there that we’ve all been getting infected with for thousands of years that haven’t been discovered yet. We only found NL63 in 2004 because SARS1 had got our attention.

The other reason you can get reinfected is the virus mutating but I think coronaviruses do this quite a bit less than the influenza ones.

87997 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to guy153, 3, #574 of 1303 🔗

Yes, thanks also. I thought it would be the case that coronavirus is here to stay, like so many other infections, and this should not be a problem for mankind. However, the future does not bode well, given the global hysteria and paranoia we are now witnessing – see NZ, for example. I get depressed sometimes thinking that the futile attempts to eradicate this disease will go on indefinitely, alongside mask wearing and antisocial distancing.

88093 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Tenchy, 4, #575 of 1303 🔗

I suspect those futile attempts to eradicate the disease will very soon be submerged by more urgent concerns about debt default, credit worthiness of major international companies, unemployment, and in the UK’s case, delays and shortages of imports after Christmas.

88162 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Tenchy, #576 of 1303 🔗

The same as the common cold; and I’ll ignore it in the same way.

88318 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, 2, #577 of 1303 🔗

Hell will freeze over before anyone actually eradicates this virus. Even with a vaccine.

Viruses can be eradicated but they need to have shorter incubation and be more severe.

Sturgeon and Arden can come back when they’ve eradicated HIV, Ebola, TB, Malaria, Dengue and Zika. Then we’ll talk.

88000 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to guy153, 5, #578 of 1303 🔗

What’s more, it has been fairly clear since the data from the Diamond Princess were first published in mid March that only a small proportion of the population were susceptible. MID MARCH!! So why all the panic? Bonkers

87915 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 12, #579 of 1303 🔗

People have been “flocking” to beaches and parks throughout spring and summer because there’s been bugger all else to do. I think it’s about the sixth time that disaster has been predicted, and not arrived, as a result.

88206 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Tenchy, #580 of 1303 🔗

Side note, what is a “home antibody testing”?
I thought you need a blood test for that? Or is it a drop of blood like testing for sugar levels? Of course that does not give an accurate picture!

88343 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, #581 of 1303 🔗

Lilith ? They’re not even trying to hide this satanic shit anymore.

88409 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, #582 of 1303 🔗

We could, we might … All vague pronouncements. They just like to keep talking about it even if there is nothing to talk about. Fills up the air time.

87878 AMZ, replying to AMZ, 3, #583 of 1303 🔗

Holy shit…

https://mobile.twitter.com/_reddpill/status/1293400780167208960

Someone please wake me up from this nightmare…

87880 ▶▶ Liam, replying to AMZ, 4, #584 of 1303 🔗

She really is a horror.

87882 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to AMZ, #585 of 1303 🔗

I saw that earlier and after watching it closely i think it is fake. I think it is dubbed. The speech is not matching the lip formation even if you factor in a time delay on sound/movement. IMHO!

87884 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to tallandbald, 1, #586 of 1303 🔗

You could be right. There are some strange facial expressions there from the saint. However, I wouldn’t put it past them to do such a thing, even if it doesn’t make any sense to have such a regime.

87899 ▶▶▶ AMZ, replying to tallandbald, 3, #587 of 1303 🔗

“ Meanwhile, Saint Jacinda has announced that anyone who tests positive in NZ will be forced to quarantine in a government managed facility”. Given that they’re doing that I wouldn’t be surprised if they held people longer than the 14 days.

87985 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to AMZ, #588 of 1303 🔗

Sounds that will really encourage people to get tested.

87946 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to tallandbald, 1, #589 of 1303 🔗

Her speech never matches her lip pattern with the size of her bloody teeth. They spend most of the time trying to escape her mouth from what I can tell!

88013 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #590 of 1303 🔗

She’s a closet vampire.
Maybe out of the closet now.

88024 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to JohnB, #591 of 1303 🔗

Oooh, I find that S-O-O-O sexy!

DavidC

88040 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 2, #592 of 1303 🔗

Ahh! The chosen controller of NZ. It was the teeth wot dunnit.

88054 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to AMZ, 2, #593 of 1303 🔗

WOW, this is incredible. Detained for up to a month “in a facility” What a psycho bitch. Her teeth come from hell too.

88145 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 2, #594 of 1303 🔗

There was a time when imprisonment without trial was an affront to human rights.
Remember those?

88412 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #595 of 1303 🔗

Amnesty International?

88226 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AMZ, #596 of 1303 🔗

but see the tweet further down that twitter
https://mobile.twitter.com/bat_soup_crazy/status/1293864004280922112

amusing

87879 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 15, #597 of 1303 🔗

The assumption is that 60 % of the population will be infected with the high R value for C-19 before it is finished. The epidemiologists want us to believe that their clever lockdown and/or social distance measures will reduce the number of infected and we are left open to next attack unless immunized. Why not test this with reality and see how much deaths we would have if the C-19 went unhindered in the population? Let us take three examples where the most part of the pandemic went unhindered and in one case absolutely without any control at all, natural experiments
Pakistan 220 million with 60% HI and IFR 0.3% 396 000 deaths IFR 0.01% 13 200 deaths
Reality 6600 deaths
Egypt     100 million with 60% HI and IFR 0.3% 180 000 deaths IFR 0.01% 6000 deaths
Reality 5000 deaths
Haiti        11 million with 60% HI and IFR 0.3% 19800   deaths IFR 0.01% 660 deaths
Reality 172 deaths
Even using a very low IFR (unrealistically low according to many experts) not even then in the example of Haiti (which had an absolutely unhindered pandemic) would we reach 60%.
Why not accept that there must be some form of resistance in the population whether we can assess it or not with antibodies or other measures?
And if we accept IFR 0.01% or even lower so we can reach the famous 60% level we have reduced the mortality of Covid-19 to a nothingburger.

87895 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 12, #598 of 1303 🔗

This is a very good illustration.

I actually think IFR probably is about 0.01% and HIT around 50 or 60%. But of course IFR varies quite a bit with the age and/or comorbidities of the population.

But prevalence as measured by serology tops out at about 20%, and IFR measured by serology usually works out at more like 0.03%.

20% serology and 75% asymptomatic (and 0.01%) is also about what you end up with a flu season.

As we now know cross-immunity means you can clear the infection with different antibodies for related viruses (plus of course all the other immune subsystems, like killer T cells, innate immunity, etc.) that the test won’t detect and this is probably the reason for low serology and high asymptomatic rates both for flu and Covid.

A severe infection, even if you have some cross-immunity, will probably result in some SARS2-specific antibodies as well. This is why when the antibody tests are calibrated they usually end up with more like 70% sensitivity. But in the real world it seems to be quite a bit lower (as various studies have shown, including the one in Lübeck). This is so-called “spectrum bias”.

If there really had been no cross-immunity to SARS2 it would have been a lot worse– IFR and HIT would both have been much higher.

AFAIK Fergie is still maintaining 0.9% IFR and 95% of the UK susceptible. This is patently ridiculous.

87927 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to guy153, 1, #599 of 1303 🔗

Very good, both. Good analysis.

87956 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, 1, #600 of 1303 🔗

There’s one problem with HIT estimates: it assumes there’s no cross-reactive immunity, which we know is not true 😉

87965 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #601 of 1303 🔗

I think you include the cross immunity in the calculation. We usually have some degree of cross immunity to most things so this comparing like with like.

The reason NL63 is “milder” than SARS2 is just because we’re used to it. It might seem like it would be clearer to characterise the viruses separately from the hosts. But it just doesn’t work like that. So I think we should accept that HIT and IFR are functions both of the virus and the host population.

88033 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, 1, #602 of 1303 🔗

If you do, then 60% HIT makes no sense. If memory serves me right, 60% is what was initially speculated back in March. After that, in May, I think, it was shown that there is cross-reactive immunity, and the team who demonstrated it advanced the hypothesis that that immunity was present in 40–60% of the population.

In any event, I think given the spillover and the pandemic, HIT is a redherring: SARS-CoV-2 now has a natural reservoir—humans, and no matter what you do it will contribute to some deaths. The best way to deal with it is through natural ‘inoculation’ (i. e. get infected when you’re healthy) at a young age, something that despite all evidence people are stupidly refusing to do because “WHY DON’T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN???”

88105 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to IMoz, #603 of 1303 🔗

Yes, that is what I was wondering about above where I asked what we know about the viruses children shake off en route to adulthood, and what age and characteristics mark out those who still die of, say, NL63? Oddly, my posts are currently being held up for approval so don’t know if it’s surfaced yet – they don’t have any links or anything, don’t know what I’m doing wrong??

88160 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Sylvie, 1, #604 of 1303 🔗

Everything you want (and probably don’t want) to know about HCoV-NL63: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2918871/ 😉

88413 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to IMoz, #605 of 1303 🔗

Thanks! Led me on to more stuff, it seems children do die of CV19 according to one recent US study across 26 states, 4 of 186. (2%), seems a high rate compared to UK, but obesity, ethnicity etc not in the abstract which is all I can access:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32598831/

88734 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Sylvie, 1, #606 of 1303 🔗

Only 49 children under 15 has died of C-19 according to CDC

https://twitter.com/tlowdon/status/1293947746521620480/photo/1

88681 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #607 of 1303 🔗

Thanks for the link, some interesting things in there: “Of the rare findings, a group has reported the association between HCoV-NL63 and Kawasaki disease […] However, others fail to report on this association”.

And then, “SARS-CoV infections appear to stimulate cross-reactive antibody responses to other human coronaviruses, including HCoV-NL63”, citing this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1287763/

Just to remind everyone, we’re talking about a ~1000 year old virus here that was discovered in 2004.

88703 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, #608 of 1303 🔗

Just to clarify that because it may be misleading. They found that SARS1 antibodies reacted against other HCoVs but they didn’t think this happened the other way round. The main concern seems to have beeen to develop a specific serology test for SARS1.

All the same this cross reactivity should have been a clue (and no doubt was) that we might find some level of cross immunity which indeed have for SARS2.

88264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #609 of 1303 🔗

I suspect that about 50% of the population have had a mild infection with SARS-COV2. The cross immunity is only “sterilising” in a majority of children and a minority of everyone else (probably anyone who had a recent relatively severe HCoV infection).

Basically what I’m saying is I would not be surprised to find that if you had PCR tested everyone every day from January until now the total number who were ever positive would turn out to be about 50%.

Germany (who had PCR tests at the peak) were getting as high as 20% positive in drive thru PCR. Since you’re positive for a couple of weeks (usually) this probably adds up to about 50% of everyone positive at some time.

88295 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, #610 of 1303 🔗

I would have thought that cross-reactive immunity is stronger in adults as they had far more exposure to various forms form the coronavirdae family.

I’d go furher than you on the PCR: I wouldn’t be surprised if the same person would get alternating results if tested numerous times.

A positive PCR is simply not indicative of an infection—axiomatically to be infected you have to have the disease caused by an infectious agent! What is happening now, is that various people seem to employ post hoc ergo propter hoc logic: we detected something that resembles a gene of an infective agent therefore you have an infection therefore you’re diseased… In the pre-COVID-19 world: you seem ill; let’s see what is causing it; ah, it’s this infectious agent!

88348 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #611 of 1303 🔗

It appears to be much stronger in children though. This is the paper:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.14.095414v1

They do test people multiple times sometimes and sometimes find +, – +. But this is because the test has low sensitivity.

After you’ve got recovered it’s very rare to still positive. But probably still a relevant source of false positives once prevalence is very low.

88424 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, #612 of 1303 🔗

I’ll read it properly tomorrow, it’s far too densely typeset to be read at this time of night, but I don’t see anything about the description of the cohort demographics at a first glance.

Nice to see the 60 year old patient getting IgG response that I figured a lot of people would be getting.

Have you seen any ROC curves for these tests, I can’t seem to locate any?

88653 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #613 of 1303 🔗

That paper is the most important cross-immunity study I’ve seen. Figure 4C shows the dramatic age distribution.

Note that that doesn’t mean people in the older age groups don’t have memory T and B cells giving some cross immunity. But the children actually had neutralizing antibodies from HCoV infections (presumably in the last few months to a year). This is the best explanation yet for why so few of them get ill.

This page has a nice graphical Bayes theorem calculator at the top: https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1808

And a thing they called a “leaf plot” a bit further down which looks like basically the same thing.

87969 ▶▶ Will, replying to swedenborg, #614 of 1303 🔗

Out of interest, what is the situation in Haiti now, has the virus worked its way through the population and disappeared?

88012 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Will, 1, #615 of 1303 🔗

It’s a very young population, this presumably slews the figures?

88058 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to annie, #616 of 1303 🔗

I imagine Ferguson would probably put it down to Voodoo…

88143 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Will, 2, #617 of 1303 🔗

No, it’s this country that us being ruled on voodoo principles. Voodoo masks, voodoo science.

88064 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Will, #618 of 1303 🔗
87885 Dave #KBF, 9, #619 of 1303 🔗

Retail Report

Mrs Doubting had a trip to the optician today, I had been when they reopened in June, but that was before mask became de rigueur.

She said to me before I left for work this morning that she was not looking forward to wearing a mask and the door being locked as she walked into the shop, she had been told in the appointment telephone call “masks are on £1 each.”

I said do what we do when we go to the supermarket tell them you are exempt, if questioned.

Anyway waited for allotted time slot, door unlocked, in without mask, no questions at all, which Mrs Doubting was grateful for. She used her own special bottle of hand sanitiser 😉

Overall not a bad experience, optician and her assistants all masked, etc, that is down to the individual, employer etc. etc. This is an independent optician, not part of a chain.

Then on to Lidl & Waitrose. Sadly most people both staff & customers apparently masked, although Waitrose slightly more than Lidl.

87898 Lisa from Toronto, 6, #620 of 1303 🔗

New video from Ivor Cummins on the “Casedemic” — the epidemic ended a long time ago. Really excellent!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU3OibcindQ

87921 Tim Paton, replying to Tim Paton, 12, #621 of 1303 🔗

Just had some strange news about care homes. My 89 year old Mother In law has gone downhill during lockdown and is now in need of full time care. She lives on her own and the shielding and lack of social contact has finally got to her. However the new rules on care homes means that if she goes into a home she will have to isolate by not leaving her room for a full 10 days. Even if she has had a test on the day she goes into the home. I think having to spend 10 days on her own in a new room will finally finish her off. Madness just madness….

87955 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tim Paton, 8, #622 of 1303 🔗

Is there any way you can get a part-time caregiver to help her out and keep her in her home? My recently deceased grandmother was locked down since early February and her life became so miserable she had no will to live. Never mind isolating for 10 days upon arrival, my grandmother was isolated for months! And this was a private, high-end retirement home. No social interaction with the other residents and meals left outside her door for MONTHS. I think they may have opened the dining room again a while back, but residents couldn’t even sit together so it was simply eating a meal somewhere different from their room but still isolated. My mom was unable to visit for months. I know it may not be possible for your MIL to stay in her home, but if there’s any way you can make it happen I recommend it. I can tell you from personal experience that if she’s struggling now, she won’t last long in a care home. I agree with you — it is madness.

87988 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 9, #623 of 1303 🔗

That’s appalling. Prisoners are treated better than that!

88142 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sophie123, 3, #624 of 1303 🔗

Farm animals are treated better than that.

88026 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #625 of 1303 🔗

They’re not allowed to impose solitary confinement on prisoners for that long, as it causes mental health problems. Ask Tommy Robinson….

88252 ▶▶▶ Tim Paton, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #626 of 1303 🔗

thanks Lisa. yes we already have a part time carer. We are looking for full time. The care home told me that even if one of their residents leaves the premises (pops down the road for a newspaper) they then have to isolate for 10 days !!

88381 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tim Paton, #627 of 1303 🔗

They tried that at my grandmother’s place as well. If she needed to leave for a doctor’s appointment then she’d have to quarantine. The sad thing is she was pretty much quarantined anyway so it wouldn’t have made a whole lot of difference. Then the government tried to get all visitors to be Covid tested every 2 weeks just to spend one hour a week with their loved one. As if 13 days after a negative test you couldn’t be positive! Thankfully that didn’t last long. My mom had a few outdoor visits and then, finally, one indoor visit before my grandmother passed away. I’m glad to hear you’re trying to find full-time care for your MIL. Best of luck!

88073 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Tim Paton, 6, #628 of 1303 🔗

Similar experience with my mother. It’s not madness, it’s abject cruelty

87922 Cheezilla, 25, #629 of 1303 🔗

Shop report:
Last week, I went to Aldi and they were spraying so much antibacterial junk about that it made me feel ill. I wrote and complained that, had I been asthmatic, it would definitely have triggered an attack and I pointed out that they were endangering the health of their customers and staff with excessive and unnecessary precautions. As this had never happened before, I asked if this was new policy because if it was I’d appreciate a headsup so I could find somewhere else to shop.
This was the reponse I received:

Dear xxx
Thank you for contacting Aldi Customer Services.
As the current situation is unprecedented, we are reviewing all customer feedback, ensuring we are taking the necessary steps as a responsible retailer to provide help and support where we can. Please be assured I will pass on your feedback.
Please find a link to our website where you can find out more about what we are doing in relation to Coronavirus – https://www.aldi.co.uk/covid19
Thank you for your support and we look forward to your continued custom.
Yours sincerely
xxx
Customer Service Advisor

To which, I replied:
Dear xxx
Thank you for your rapid boilerplate response to my letter.
I have looked at the link and there is no mention of liberal spraying with stinky antibacterials, which are a potential health hazard. No mention of spraying at all, in fact.
I’d appreciate a proper reply to my letter now.
Thank you.

Result: A further email, asking for a convenient time when they could call and discuss it with me. Which took place this afternoon.

A very chirpy young lady had clearly read my email properly and, with lots of empathy, extended profuse apologies for my experience. She asked if I still had the till receipt so they could contact the store manager to ascertain the till operator. I hadn’t kept it, but assured her that I went last night and there was no evidence of spraying, all was the pleasant experience I’d come to expect, so maybe it was a touch of excessive cleaning zeal.
She gave me some spiel about customer safety and I pointed out that, as the staff couldn’t escape it, it was more hazardous for them. She said she’d contact the storemanager and make sure it didn’t happen again.
As she was bringng the matter to a close, I asked if I could raise another matter with her. I noted that the facemask sign says: “Please wear a face covering” and how nice that it wasn’t aggressive, like some shops. I then asked if it would be possible to point out that some people are exempt from wearing masks. She was straight on it and said that she’d take it up with management and see about getting the signs amended.

So, brownie points to Aldi for customer service. Let’s hope they follow through!

87942 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 9, #630 of 1303 🔗

300 people tested “positive” at Greencore factory in Northampton. Can anyone here with any influence ask a media type to follow this up and see how many of these 300 are ill or become ill? This seems like our Diamond Princess moment: a discreet group of people who supposedly will all become gravely ill (if you happen to be an employee there reading this – you won’t). So if 300 have got it and none (few) are ill, then surely that’s big news… Surely…
Greencore supply M&S sandwiches. That will be M&S doomed then: workers might have coughed on the sandwiches. How long can coronavirus survive on prawns? But you should be OK if you wear a mask whilst eating your M&S sandwich.

87945 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Aremen, 6, #631 of 1303 🔗

They would have all been wearing masks to make up the sandwiches, whoops.

88001 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Aremen, 3, #632 of 1303 🔗

Quick duck duck go search found this.

As you will probably be aware, the Northampton area has seen a rising number of confirmed cases of COVID-19 over the past couple of weeks. Unfortunately, a number of our Greencore colleagues have been impacted and our thoughts are with them.

Link has been removed.

88193 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Aremen, 2, #633 of 1303 🔗

In Germany they got 1500 positive PCR tests from workers at the meat processing plant.
3 were ill.

88232 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Aremen, 1, #634 of 1303 🔗

Which reminds me of the 120-odd cases at the AS Green farm in Malvern, back in mid-July. What happened to all of them I wonder? Death and destruction? Or back picking the purple sprouting? I think I can guess which.

88333 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Miss Owl, #635 of 1303 🔗

“Two further workers who tested negative have left the farm and are being contacted by their employment agency to ensure they are self-isolating.
“This is in addition to three people who left the farm previously, who have all confirmed with their employment agency that they are self-isolating.
“A number of workers have completed their period of self-isolation and will be able to resume their daily activities. These workers will be able to return to work or leave the farm…
A group of agricultural workers who travelled into the UK by private coach, including some of the workers who went on to work at AS Green and Co, were being followed up.
Another group of workers travelled to the site on a flight bringing agricultural workers to the UK. The council said as an additional precaution, those travellers are also being followed up.
Seventy-six workers on the flight who travelled onwards to other farms in England have already been offered testing and no further cases have been identified to date.
Public health partners in Scotland have been notified of a further group of 63 workers on the same flight who travelled onwards to Scottish farms in order that they too can be followed-up appropriately.”
Birmingham Mail

88414 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Miss Owl, #636 of 1303 🔗

Ask the news source that broke this news what was the aftermath. Any followup or was it just a slow news day.

87943 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #638 of 1303 🔗

Heads Up – Government desperate to get a higher infection rate (and all your details), and maybe further lockdowns!!

Letter from NHS / Department of Health & Social Care / Imperial College London / Ipsos MORI dated 12 August 2020

Take part in a COVID-19 testing research study

We are writing to invite you to take part in an important study to measure the prevalence of COVID-19. The study is being conducted by Imperial College London and Ipsos MORI, an independent research organisation, on behalf of the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC).

The study will help the Government work out how many people may have COVID-19 in different areas of the country. We would like you to take part even if you have already been tested for Covid-19. The test may indicate whether you currently have the Covid-19 virus . We have chosen your name at random, and participation is completely voluntary.

[Registration instructions]

….. The package [test] will be sent by Royal Mail and should arrive between 21st August and 1st September. The test is a swab of your nose and throat and will be returned to a laboratory (by a courier who collects the completed test from your home) for analysis. The result from this test will be sent to you within one week.

There will also be a short online survey that asks about you, including your health and any Covid-19 related symptoms you may have had.

Thank you in advance. Your sincerely

Additional information [typed only 2 of 7]

What test will you send?

We will send you a “swab test” of the nose and throat. The test is of a high clinical standard. The test may show whether you currently have the Covid-19 virus (although test results are not 100% accurate). It does not show whether you have had the virus in the past. This will help us to assess how much virus is circulating across the county including people who do not have any symptoms

Your Privacy

Your swab test results will be passed to Ipsos MORI and Imperial College London to link to the information in the questionnaire. All questionnaire information will be kept confidential by Ipsos MORI, and approved Imperial College London staff and researchers. Nobody will be able to identify you in any published results. If your test is positive (suggesting that you currently have Covid-19) we will inform NHS test and Trace so they can contact you.

If you agree, Imperial College London may link the results to other health information that the NHS holds about you. The linkage would be done by the NHS

87947 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Victoria, 6, #639 of 1303 🔗

I was going to use the naughty F word!

They won’t get any help, DNA or any viral fragments from me (and, by the way, we all carry bacteria, viruses and other microbes on and in us – ALL of us!).

DavidC

88415 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DavidC, #640 of 1303 🔗

I think it was Dr. Vernon Coleman who remarked that we carry 1.5 kg of bacteria in our bodies.

87949 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Victoria, 7, #641 of 1303 🔗

Straight in the bin

87963 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Victoria, 5, #642 of 1303 🔗

This is the second time they’ve done this: I got a similar letter in June.

88118 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Ossettian, 2, #643 of 1303 🔗

Yeah, binned it twice now. What’s the odds of 2 of us having had this out of maybe 1000/5 =200 people commenting on this site? (comments/ possible frequency, to arrive at persons )?
Bit like working out the IFR from the number of tests when you don’t know how many tests related to the same people, perhaps…

87990 ▶▶ Bob, replying to Victoria, 6, #644 of 1303 🔗

Maybe we could all try swabbing boiled water and then see what the returned results are!

88032 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, 14, #645 of 1303 🔗

This is ridiculous, how can any sample taken at home by an ordinary person EVER be held to be accurate and NOT BE CONTAMINATED with loads of other genetic junk????

Just imagine, “ok get the swab out the thing, hold it by the end, oops wrong end, damn I forgot to wash my hands, better get some gloves, I will stick down on the table for a sec…Can I borrow your gloves luv? Can’t find them? You had them in the car, after you went to Tescos, must be on the floor of the car….hang on, OK gloves on, oops dropped it in the dog bowl , ok oops wrong end again, No Fido don’t lick it….OK here we go….Up the nose, ouch that hurt OK, that will do”.

Such Bollocks. Mrs 2-6 got one of those invites, straight in the bin…

88038 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 4, #646 of 1303 🔗

Paw paw the test.

88211 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #647 of 1303 🔗

Try an avocado this time – right colour.

88135 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Victoria, 5, #648 of 1303 🔗

Nobody will be able to identify you….[but] if your test is positive, we will inform NHS Test and Trace [so that they can make your life a misery].

Straight in the bin. I always also turn off my Bluetooth module on my mobile unless I’m actually driving so that the T&T can’t operate.

…Imperial College London may link the results to other information… So your privacy goes straight out the window. You would be mad, completely mad, to take part in this.

88188 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Victoria, #649 of 1303 🔗

About as useful as a DBS check or HIV test. THAT MOMENT you might be in the clear. Go shopping an hour later, win the lottery and bump into someone who coughs into your mouth.
What a waste of resources!

88441 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Victoria, 2, #650 of 1303 🔗

Send me one, send me one PLEASE.

I will stick it in some artichoke juice and send it back.

You can bet your life I’ll be filming the entire process, and me getting my result.

87944 HoMojo, replying to HoMojo, 3, #651 of 1303 🔗

I know this was posted somewhere else here today but I can’t find it now, too many comments (which in itself is encouraging, given that I’ve been coming here since it’s inception and witnessed a huge increase in traffic.) This video is quite an eye opener, but be patient with the translation and the quality. Doctors saying the whole thing is a scam so it’s in danger of being taken down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn0V5uItsVc&list=TLPQMTMwODIwMjCPvlHH4Mytag&index=1

Their website http://www.acu2020.org is also essential for those here who thin this is much more than global incompetence. Bookmark it, it is part of the fight back.

87987 ▶▶ Bob, replying to HoMojo, 1, #652 of 1303 🔗

Why are they all wearing white coats in the briefing?! We should be basing are judgement of their arguments on their content rather than from inferred authority.

88010 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bob, 1, #653 of 1303 🔗

Why not.
It’s a symbol of who they are and what they represent, and counters the pronouncements from politicians.
They’re frontline doctors, not suits in an office somewhere, like Neil Ferguson, coming up with nonsense predictions.

88052 ▶▶ watashi, replying to HoMojo, #654 of 1303 🔗

Thank you, Very powerful.

88214 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HoMojo, #655 of 1303 🔗
87953 DJ Dod, replying to DJ Dod, 3, #656 of 1303 🔗

Interesting to note the change in tone from the CMO in Scotland now that getting kids back to school is a priority. For example:

‘The number of hospital admissions of those with a positive case has shown a sustained decline since April. From 25 June to 15 July there was on average one admission per day. From 10 to 19 July there were 0 confirmed patients admitted to intensive care; in the latest week (to 2 August), 2 new Covid patients were admitted. There has been a sustained decline in the number of deaths per week where Covid is recorded on the death certificate. There has been no such death for 21 consecutive days up to 6 August. SAGE’s consensus view, as of 5 August , was that the value of Rt in Scotland was between 0.6 and 1.0.’

So why are still in ‘lockdown’?

From ‘School reopening: scientific evidence August 2020 – Chief Medical Officer note’

More on why there’s nothing to worry about here:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-preparing-start-new-school-term-august-2020/

87958 ▶▶ guy153, replying to DJ Dod, 7, #657 of 1303 🔗

Explicitly claiming they have had success “suppressing the virus”. Probably the most bare-faced lie I’ve seen from a government so far in all of this.

87974 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to guy153, 3, #658 of 1303 🔗

I think we’re going to be hearing that with increasing regularity from now on!

88027 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DJ Dod, 3, #659 of 1303 🔗

Not to contradict you at all. Just to record the fact alongside your post. Sturgeon today used R 1.3 from a model she claimed represented the current situation.

As I said not a contradiction. Just what we are faced with.

Her tone matched what you say. No cause for undue alarm she dictated. A month ago lives would have teetered in the balamce. But today, no.

87981 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to guy153, 3, #660 of 1303 🔗

How many of these bastards believe the lies and how many know they are lying?

88255 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Julian, #661 of 1303 🔗

The secret of being a good liar is to convince yourself. But now that I look more closely it is actually true that “Scotland” has suppressed the virus. Specifically it is the immune systems of the good people of Scotland that have done it.

88439 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to guy153, #662 of 1303 🔗

I’m gonna say it.

Could that be partly because Scotland is less ‘ethnically diverse’ than England? ;P

88640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Farinances, #663 of 1303 🔗

There’s absolutely no reason to believe the situation in Scotland is any different to that in England though 🙂 It’s just the ONS don’t test Scotland for some reason so we don’t know.

87996 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 9, #664 of 1303 🔗

Probably the most bare-faced lie I’ve seen from a government so far in all of this .”

And let’s face it, that’s no mean achievement, considering the competition.

88076 ▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to guy153, 4, #665 of 1303 🔗

I guess they are trying to say that they have killed it. Not quite sure how they did that but it would be good if the MSM asked them.

88070 ▶▶ Stephen, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #666 of 1303 🔗

The English government is not as quick or smart as the Scottish government. Still panicking about small numbers of cases in the North West.

My guess is that in a couple of weeks or so they will be giving similar messages when they realise that the school opening process is not likely to go to plan.

87967 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #667 of 1303 🔗

Fake Pandemic Re-Run: Similarities Between 1976 Swine Flu and 2020 COVID:
https://thefreedomarticles.com/same-fake-pandemic-similarities-1976-swine-flu-2020-covid/

88020 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Sarigan, 2, #668 of 1303 🔗

Offlands,
A very good article and though provoking.

One of the points raised at the end of it, I must admit, hadn’t crossed my (and should have!) – namely that any vaccine, whether it works or not, whether it contains toxins or not, bypasses ALL the body’s own protective system (nasal filtration, mucous membrane, the skin itself, coughing(!)) and its microbiome (and the various protective parts they play in fighting off disease or helping to develop resistance or immunity) and goes straight into the bloodstream.

I’d hazard a guess that Jenner’s original smallpox innoculations didn’t include all the preservatives, adjuvants, non human cellular material and other crud that the modern vaccines do.

DavidC

88126 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to DavidC, 2, #669 of 1303 🔗

It didn’t. Modern “vaccines” are utter filth compared with the original versions.

88300 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RichardJames, 1, #670 of 1303 🔗

Any thinking person who reads a list of modern vaccine contents, and doesn’t think “They’re taking the piss” is beyond hope.

88408 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to RichardJames, #671 of 1303 🔗

I was being a bit ironic! I agree with you!

DaviC

88222 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, #672 of 1303 🔗

That’s why I’m basically anti-vax.

88327 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to DavidC, 1, #673 of 1303 🔗

when they call us up for the vaccine go to the appointment and ask the nurse for a written full list of ingredients, a full test report for the vaccine, the risk analysis and contraindications, liabilities etc before accepting having something injected into your body. Well by the time that is provided, and it won’t be the allocated 10mins timeslot will have expired. Walk out and say when you can provide all the relevant information then i’ll consider the vaccine.

87976 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 15, #674 of 1303 🔗

I am curious. If somebody dies of this virus are we all now responsible? It is probably impossible to pinpoint the person or persons that initiated the chain of infection leading ultimately to death. But by not doing everything we possibly could at every moment of every day then does this mean that we have failed collectively as a society?

It seems to me as if this is how things are being framed.

87979 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #675 of 1303 🔗

Yes, very good point. An excellent illustration of the madness underlying a lot of the measures and positions being taken.

88008 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #676 of 1303 🔗

There was a report yesterday on msm television giving the account of a care worker who had tested positive and ‘unknowingly’ gone between homes working away, also visited her elderly mother in a a third carehome. Her mother had died of covid as had some in the other care homes she had been working in. The report included the lady talking to the reporter supposedly haunted by the very possiblility she had ‘killed’ all these people. Oh woe the regret this lady had if she had only known. She must have known it was a dangerous practice to mix carehomes, if she didn’t her manahers ought to have known.

Personally I had little time for the regret because without proof who is to say the care worker’s mother hadn’t passed it on to the care worker originally.

The implication is clearly there that we are murderers now for being alive. But societies laws are not up to finding guilt even if such a burden has newly tried to be foisted upon us.

It is absurd.

88084 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Basics, 4, #677 of 1303 🔗

Absolutely. The cause is not directly attributable. It’s not like deliberately infecting someone with HIV or a drunk driver killing someone. If you extend the logic being applied it would be the same as saying if you don’t give money to the Red Cross you’re responsible for someone dying in Africa. “They could have been saved if it wasn’t for your selfishness”

88326 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Achilles, #678 of 1303 🔗

Or a supermarket selling a chicken and the buyer dying from food poisoning because they didn’t cook it properly.

88186 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #679 of 1303 🔗

The only granny killers are those people that blindly follow the useless government rules, instead of advocating and demanding a managed herd immunity strategy with special protection for the most vulnerable.
https://medium.com/@staceyrudin/anti-lockdowners-take-a-stand-23250fec0416

88217 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #680 of 1303 🔗

It reminds me of something the late DJ John Peel once said. He had been an early supporter of Marc Bolan’s band Tyrannosaurus Rex, who later went on to great success as T Rex. However Bolan was unable to cope with that level of fame, his life became a bit of a mess and he ended up dead after crashing his car. Peel wasn’t arrogantly thinking that Bolan owed his success solely to Peel’s early support, but he said it had crossed his mind that maybe without that support Bolan would not have died in that way. But Peel then forced himself to dismiss that thought, quoting King Lear’s “That way madness lies”.

88280 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Edward, 1, #681 of 1303 🔗

I’ve just checked and it was actually Bolan’s girlfriend driving the car which crashed. But it doesn’t change the point.

88219 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to Nobody2020, #682 of 1303 🔗

“It seems to me as if this is how things are being framed.”
Yep. We’re all being framed!

87989 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 7, #683 of 1303 🔗

I’m trying to avoid shopping as much as possible, but I’m waiting for the moment when a guard sprays me with sanitiser or insists that I can’t go in without being sprayed. I will:

  1. Ask to see the ingredients of the sanitiser
  2. Ask to see their COSHH document for the substance
  3. Ask to see their risk assessment for the use of the sanitiser
  4. Tell them that I am Muslim* (which I am not) and that they have just put alcohol on my body, which is a violation of my faith
  5. Then maybe accuse them of assault by putting the alcohol on my body without my consent

*Apologies to any Muslims if I have unwittingly caused any offence. It may be that saying I am Muslim when I am not is a wrong thing to do in your faith, in which case, I won’t do that. I’ll think of something else to say: That I am a member of the Plymouth Brethren, to whom alcohol is evil, or that I am allergic to alcohol, or that it interacts with some strong medication and they may need to call a doctor or some such.

87994 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Aremen, 11, #684 of 1303 🔗

I think the hand sanitiser fad in shops has died out, just like the one way bollocks, queuing and eventually the masks. All completely pointless and all completely ignored by the sane at all times.

88006 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Hubes, 3, #685 of 1303 🔗

So true – but it does give one a guide to the mental health of much of our population.

88009 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Hubes, 9, #686 of 1303 🔗

At my tourist attraction we are forced to offer hand muck and most people use it, apparently unconsciously, except when they set small children down and plaster them with it.
I put the bottle in as inconspicuous a position as possible, I water the gunk down, I tell people not to bother, I tell them they’re preparing bacterial Armageddon, I tell them it doesn’t kill Corona, but a lot of them seem to be participating in collective obsessive-compulsive behaviour.
Then they go swimming and the foul muck gies straight into the sea.

88028 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to annie, 15, #687 of 1303 🔗

It’s part of their madness routine now. Like queuing. I went to Sainsbury’s the other day and there was a bloke standing out the front waiting to go in, only thing was there was nobody telling him to queue. He was voluntarily queuing. I walked past him and straight in. He’s probably still there now waiting to be waved in.

88056 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Hubes, 9, #688 of 1303 🔗

It’d make a good Monty Python sketch. The Ministry of Silly Queuing.

88293 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hubes, #689 of 1303 🔗

Queue jumper !!!

88029 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to annie, 5, #690 of 1303 🔗

It doesn’t. Soap and water is much better, the soap helps to break the lipd capsid of the virus, alcohol won’t do that.

DavidC

88060 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bob, replying to DavidC, 2, #691 of 1303 🔗

Ethanol does dissolve lipid bilayers though:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3526990/

88407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bob, #692 of 1303 🔗

Noted and thanks for pointing out Bob.

DavidC

88129 ▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to annie, #693 of 1303 🔗

Yes, that’s it – collective OCD.

88292 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #694 of 1303 🔗

Have you actually tried offering “Hand muck ?” ? 🙂

88096 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Hubes, 2, #695 of 1303 🔗

Definitely seeing people ignore them and most of them look like its been the same bottle for weeks now.

88147 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #696 of 1303 🔗

Bit like a harvester salad bar

88212 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Hubes, #697 of 1303 🔗

My husband has taken to testing them all and then making comments about how they compare – he does not hold back & so far people have gone along with it!

88007 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Aremen, 11, #698 of 1303 🔗

If anybody sprays me with anything without my consent, I will treat it as the assault it is and act accordingly.

88175 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Aremen, 3, #699 of 1303 🔗

In May I entered a local shop which sells loose foods and environmentally friendly products, to be immediately confronted by the owner and then sprayed with sanitizer without my consent. I was so surprised I did not realise what she had done until later. Of course I will never set foot into her shop again.

88198 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Silke David, 3, #700 of 1303 🔗

If anyone sprays me with any kind of disgusting chemical without my consent I am afraid they will regret it,likewise if they shove a thermometer in my face.

88282 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Paul, 4, #701 of 1303 🔗

Spray me – which is assault – and watch your nose spray.

88225 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, 1, #702 of 1303 🔗

I don’t think the supermarkets are so bothered now. Certainly the hand sanitiser has vanished from the entrance to Aldi. Most people had got to the point where they just walked straight past it anyway.

You probably won’t have a problem. If you get a Karen on the shop door, tell them you can’t have it because you’re allergic, and if they insist, take pleasure in finding an alternative, more reasonable shop.

88284 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #703 of 1303 🔗

I don’t really see anyone sanitising the trollies and baskets either.

88311 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #704 of 1303 🔗

Not for a couple of weeks. And they’ve started chaining up the trollies again too.

Crazy that the sanitizer actually made some sense but they’ve stopped using it and the pointless and unsanitary muzzle fad has replaced it.

88314 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #705 of 1303 🔗

In the beginning B&Q were forcing you to take a trolley (for social distancing…yeah right) and at the entrance were spraying and giving to each customers. Quite a lot of manpower and hassle to collect the trolleys and spray etc. It lasted about 2 weeks !! 🙂 Hopefully all the other stupid measures will follow suit, including masks.
Just been to tesco naked (not literally but maskless) – no-one took any notice of me. Though i went to B&Q earlier (no i don’t live in there lol) and lass on the door said “do you have a mask” – to avoid controversy i just pulled my bandana up for all of about 30 seconds. But the idiocy of this the staff don’t wear masks – so if there was any merit/benefit to wearing then should apply to all including staff, although wearing for a shift would be incredibly difficult. I didn’t want to give the young girl a hard time as she’s only doing what she’s been told to do.

88290 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Aremen, #706 of 1303 🔗

I think if you say you are a Muslim, you’re in for the rest of your life. Not keen on apostates.

88530 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Aremen, 1, #707 of 1303 🔗

say what you like about islam it’s a free country and criticism of a made up load of old bollocks is allowed.

87992 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 20, #708 of 1303 🔗

Nick Cave, today, on ‘cancel culture’:

“As far as I can see, cancel culture is mercy’s antithesis. Political correctness has grown to become the unhappiest religion in the world.
Its once honourable attempt to reimagine our society in a more equitable way now embodies all the worst aspects that religion has to offer (and none of the beauty) – moral certainty and self-righteousness shorn even of the capacity for redemption. It has become quite literally, bad religion run amuck.
Cancel culture’s refusal to engage with uncomfortable ideas has an asphyxiating effect on the creative soul of a society.
Compassion is the primary experience – the heart event – out of which emerges the genius and generosity of the imagination.”

88154 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, #709 of 1303 🔗

Same with most dogmatic ideologies that are unable to adapt, because this particular ideology is already “perfect”. Right up to the moment it goes wrong of course…

88176 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Mr Dee, #710 of 1303 🔗

Strong, well chosen words!

88231 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Mr Dee, #711 of 1303 🔗

Well said Nick Cave. It would be interesting to know his views on the Australian police. It’s difficult to find anything humorous in that situation, but since many Australians are descended from convicts, are their police descended from the prison guards? Or the other way round?

88307 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edward, #712 of 1303 🔗

Ironically, many of the original convicts were political dissidents.

88438 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mr Dee, #713 of 1303 🔗

I’ve always loved this weird and wonderful man. Nice to know he is sound.
Bit like Marilyn Manson. Looks mental, when you hear him he’s the most sensible person alive.

88005 Jack, replying to Jack, 32, #714 of 1303 🔗

Here we go again:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/13/oldham-brink-full-lockdown-coronavirus-cases-surge/

Katrina Stephens, the director of public health for Oldham Council, said a full lockdown could take place in “days rather than weeks” unless people adhered to rules .

It’s always the ‘peoples’ fault, never that the rules are wrong or the whole strategy is flawed.

88014 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jack, 18, #715 of 1303 🔗

whole strategy is flawed” That’s the thing the amazes me most – once you’ve accepted some basic facts, it’s blindingly obvious that herd immunity is the only viable approach to this, unless you believe in miracles or want to end meaningful human life forever. A child could grasp this.

88017 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 9, #716 of 1303 🔗

‘A child could grasp this.’ Yes – but show me an MP with such sophisticated cognitive abilities!

88036 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to IanE, 5, #717 of 1303 🔗

MPs must be very sophisticated – they have the ability to switch their cognitive abilities off when they need to go along with bullshit to get/stay in power

88059 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to Julian, 22, #718 of 1303 🔗

I really agree with a comment that Peter Hitchens made about Johnson. Politicians are getting intoxicated with taking “decisive” measures.

Andy Burnham is a classic example. Mayor is really a non job. He feels powerful now writing to supermarkets to “tell” them to enforce mask wearing and also criticizing publicans. But, as we know, the clinical evidence that masks even help is very weak or non existent.

But he can feel important, decisive and powerful now. What is going on is now starting to become evil. I for one have seriously had enough of this nonsense.

88065 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Stephen, 10, #719 of 1303 🔗

I think that desire to be at the centre of attention, to be important, is one of the things fuelling the enthusiasm among leaders everywhere for prolonging this. Human weakness.

88289 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 1, #720 of 1303 🔗

Celebrity culture meets local politics?

88471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #721 of 1303 🔗

Hubris.

88074 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Stephen, 6, #722 of 1303 🔗

… and, of course, the role of City ‘Mayor’ was never determined by a democratic constitutional process. It’s another example of arbitrary executive power and execution.

88110 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to RickH, 5, #723 of 1303 🔗

And don’t forget Burnham was (and probably still is) one of the biggest advocates of ID cards, for which I will never forgive him.

88262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, 3, #724 of 1303 🔗

At least his surname gave us a clue as to what to do with them …

88312 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Stephen, 1, #725 of 1303 🔗

The position of mayor has been identified as important to the globalist aims. City regions taking over from nation states. Burnam is working in that realm. It’s more sinister than an ego taking hold of a city.
Mark Windows for more and better explanation.

88050 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, 7, #726 of 1303 🔗

Ending meaningful life is what they want to do

88067 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 13, #727 of 1303 🔗

Even when you understand the immense solid front of propaganda, it is indeed amazing how many are immune to the blindingly obvious wrongness of the establishment narrative.

As you say Julian – it’s really not difficult to unpack the facts. I do have some experience of medical statistics, but I am essentially using very basic research, mathematical, statistical and general logical thinking skills and observation to pick out the *real* narrative – whilst a bevvy of PhD’s, Professorships and O.B.N credits seem unable to rise to that level. Some Epidemiologists, Virologists and Public Health specialists have done the credibility of their areas no favours at all by betraying such unbalanced – and sheer crap – scientific skills.

Above all, it’s quite easy to see that it’s the band of contrarians who have been shown to be correct – time after time after time – as data comes in.

And yet ….

88172 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to RickH, 2, #728 of 1303 🔗

You don’t need to have a degree in physics to grasp that masks simply cannot work, just accept math 101, or that they can’t make any difference as per probability calculation 101.
And yet….

88022 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Jack, 16, #729 of 1303 🔗

As ridiculous as any lockdown is, it is partly the people living there that are contributing to this. When the fuck are these halfwits gonna realise that they need to stop getting tested.

88034 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Hubes, 5, #730 of 1303 🔗

How I wish I were a billionaire right now. I don’t know what the budget was for the Brexit campaign, but a billionaire could have funded it. Think what a similar campaign might achieve on this topic. Anyone know any sceptic billionaires? Kirstie Alley seems like a sceptic from some of her tweets, but she’s not rich enough.

88046 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Julian, 4, #731 of 1303 🔗

I bet Bernie Ecclestone is a sceptic. There is no way he’d have the whole F1 paddock masked up like zombies if he was still running it.

88114 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Hubes, 2, #732 of 1303 🔗

And the drivers – some of them – wouldn’t be ‘giving it the knee’ either.

88137 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Tenchy, 4, #733 of 1303 🔗

No he wouldn’t allow that at all and I think he’d allow fans too.

It’s utterly ridiculous that the drivers have to wear masks. Thing is everybody gets tested there every day on a race weekend. If they are “positive” they aren’t allowed in the paddock. So why the fuck is everybody masked up. That’s what having Americans in charge will do I suppose.

88209 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Hubes, 2, #734 of 1303 🔗

i just caught a bit of a US baseball match this evening … and saw a New York Mets batter hit the ball and run to first base wearing a mask under his chin. i couldnt be bothered to think of the logic being applied there,

88228 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to mjr, 1, #735 of 1303 🔗

I saw a bit of the nba the other day. One of the coaches had a mask on whilst sitting on the bench nowhere near anybody, but when he needed to talk to any of his players or the refs he took it off. So no mask when you are right next to somebody talking to them. Mask on when you are sitting on your own.

88418 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Hubes, #736 of 1303 🔗

Absurd. I watched a Stanley Cup Hockey match last night. Empty seats but canned cheering when the home team scored a goal. And way above, up near the rafters, the organist played a cheery tune.

88721 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Hubes, #737 of 1303 🔗

He may well be though I have not seen any definite sceptic pronouncement from him.

The richest declared sceptic I can think of is Luke Johnson, net worth £220M. I wonder if he’d be prepared to fund an opposition movement?

88112 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Hubes, 3, #738 of 1303 🔗

Never. I just saw a woke NHS advert telling all sheeple to get tested. So they’ll be queueing up outside the testing centres tomorrow.

88165 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Tenchy, 3, #739 of 1303 🔗

Yep. Two of their favourite things. Queuing and testing. Tossers

88044 ▶▶ Stephen, replying to Jack, 17, #740 of 1303 🔗

The best comment in the article is the oblique comment that hospital admissions are not going up.

This must be the first illness in history for which we have systematically tested people with zero symptoms, described those as “cases” and then decided to quarantine whole cities based on that. It is definitely innovative.

The quote from Katrina Stephens is shocking. I do wonder what on earth a director of public health for Oldham even does in “normal” times.

This is so misguided. The virus will do what it does and it will go away just because we choose to hide. Do people like her really think that we should operate like this for the next decade?

88047 ▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to Stephen, #741 of 1303 🔗

“Not” go away because we choose to hide…..

88151 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Stephen, 4, #742 of 1303 🔗

Funny thing is, when people wake up, they’ll be looking for someone to blame other than themselves. Invest in popcorn, it’s going to be entertaining.

88205 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #743 of 1303 🔗

Invest in scaffolding and rope that’ll be even more fun

88836 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bella, #744 of 1303 🔗

That’s more like it! 👍

88266 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stephen, 2, #745 of 1303 🔗

I do wonder what on earth a director of public health for Oldham even does in “normal” times

Draws a large publicly-funded salary and spreads the gospel according to Common Purpose ?

88270 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 3, #746 of 1303 🔗

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh ! The fuckers have an ‘Association’ –

Association of Directors of Public Health (ADPH)

88131 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jack, 8, #747 of 1303 🔗

Excuse my language, but I hope the people of Oldham tell their council to fuck right off.

88355 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #748 of 1303 🔗

Have a look at his twatter thing. It’s like Life Of Brian: “How should we fuck off, oh lord?”

88260 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jack, #749 of 1303 🔗

The glamorous Ms Stephens addresses her subjects –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg2-4BB40_8

88288 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #750 of 1303 🔗

Oh dear!

88316 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, #751 of 1303 🔗
  1. That’s two weeks old, which is a lifetime just now.
  2. The whole thing is a bunch of cunts telling you to do without that which they don’t use and wouldn’t miss

No apologies for gross language.

88015 IanE, replying to IanE, 9, #752 of 1303 🔗

Nice to see Allister (not Alastair by the way) Heath’s first two paragraphs posted here. I sent these to my MP first thing this morning – with a suggestion to read the full article and, especially, the utterly damning Top Comments!

I don’t expect any response of course – but the odd slap in the face for MPs is essential if we are ever to achieve anything!

88168 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to IanE, 4, #753 of 1303 🔗

True.
MPs and MSM journos must first sense that the ship they were on is sinking, and that they need to jump off it in oder to stay afloat henceforth.
Interestingly, an older study is being referred to again in some circles, as to where it is sufficient that just a bit more than 10% of the population have to start to vigorously disagree with the mainstream opinion to bring about a sea change or reversal of that opinion.
Which is why I will definetely be in Berlin on 29.8.!

88061 IMoz, 3, #754 of 1303 🔗

Could always rely on McAfee to stick it to the state: https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1293900305818701826

Someone retweet this @ Dolan 😉

88069 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #755 of 1303 🔗

More new problems for St Jacinda

“The Covid risk has extended to Auckland’s North Shore after a primary school student tested positive, sending their school into lockdown.
Two Noel Leeming stores on the North Shore have also been told someone who tested positive had visited over the weekend.
A further two schools in Māngere East have confirmed cases of the virus, as does Auckland’s Manukau Institute of Technology.
It is unclear if the cases are linked to the 17 confirmed cases of community transmission or new ones.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12356436

88157 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, 4, #756 of 1303 🔗

Eradication was and is always only a fool’s strategy.
It was and is against history, nature, experience, what’s necessary for humans immune system and long term survival and it was and is completely dependent upon the uncovered cheque of a 100% effective vaccine being bankable soon.
No one cognizant of all this and/or of
Bayes would have ever attempted it.

88220 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to swedenborg, #757 of 1303 🔗

Is that the Manuka Honey Institute of Technology? What about bees as the vector? Birds?
I wonder if you can lay bets on the NZ deaths, I’d say about 4K on a population around 10% of UK?

88257 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, #758 of 1303 🔗

Pop’s a fair bit less than 10% of UK’s, and they probably won’t stuff up protecting their elderly and vulnerable like we did. I’d go for 1000 deaths if it gets going properly. What’s the stake?

88276 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Mark, #759 of 1303 🔗

Ha ha, I might have to look at their age profile first…

88388 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mark, #760 of 1303 🔗

If they go for HCQ trifecta pills as a prophylactic and follow the protocols they could get death rates down to f*** all.
Depends if they are more interested saving lives or bullying the peeps.

88469 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #761 of 1303 🔗

Ha ha, I might have to look at their age profile first…

88616 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, #762 of 1303 🔗

If the stakes are high enough, demographics too. I don’t know if maoris are inherently more vulnerable (I suppose nobody does, yet), but they do tend to the hefty side…

88075 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #763 of 1303 🔗

I’ve not been taking much notice of the stupid and confusing limits on how many households can meet in a tent on a Tuesday, or alternatively in a shed on a Friday. But I’ve just had a look because a friend was insisting that we can’t meet in multi-household groups even outside. But the regs seem to imply that we can have as many as 30 people inside a house but only 6 people from two households can meet outdoors? Or have I got that wrong? If not, it’s nonsensical!

Not sure even Wankock would know the details if pressed.

88082 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 22, #764 of 1303 🔗

Also this part is disgusting:

At this time, we still advise that people from different households avoid close contact so childcare should only be provided if it is possible to socially distance from your grandchildren.

Socially distance from your grandchildren?? There are no words.

88086 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to A. Contrarian, 14, #765 of 1303 🔗

Evil

88103 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #766 of 1303 🔗

All of it is disgusting

88138 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #767 of 1303 🔗

Anybody who follows that ‘advice’ should be sectioned.

88248 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, #768 of 1303 🔗

I wonder whether there is a name attached to that piece of advice …

88085 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 15, #769 of 1303 🔗

Who gives a f.k? We’ve a circle of family, friends an neighbours who have treated the whole thing with disdain ever since the peak did what peaks do and vanished.

In the end, spreading obvious contempt and ridicule may be a useful weapon.

88104 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, 8, #770 of 1303 🔗

Sadly lots of people I know give many f*ks, my BIL for example is refusing to see us next weekend because he’s staying with his parents and if we turned up, there would be three households which is “against the law”. And lots of the social groups my home-educated daughter used to attend will not start up until the law changes. I know a few dissenters, but distressingly few.

88191 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #771 of 1303 🔗

Yes – I do know, and I realise that my gung-ho mock question was an expression of our (relatively) fortunate situation. It doesn’t alter the generally depressing framework, and you are absolutely right that beyond the simple social mixing, there is a vast range of things that are simply not happening.

The degree of ‘I’m only following orders’ is incredibly depressing.

88088 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #772 of 1303 🔗

‘You gotta go where you want to go
Do what you want to do
With whoever you want to do it with’
Apart from the areas that are on the Covid naughty step, My understanding is that the Police will only act on gatherings of over 30 people, other than that keep rocking in the free world, I hope you have a good meet-up.

88106 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #773 of 1303 🔗

That’s the problem, the meet up won’t happen because this friend and many others won’t go against the guidance/law.

88251 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #774 of 1303 🔗

Let’s face it – it’s not ‘the law’ in any known sense. It’s a way of getting round proper law.

88256 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #775 of 1303 🔗

You’re just California Dreamin …

88102 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #776 of 1303 🔗

The idiotic legislation says gatherings of 30 are permitted inside your house and outside. The even more pointless guidelines still says only 6 people outside I believe. It’s all fucking drivel and should be disregarded by everybody.

5.—(1) During the emergency period, unless paragraph (3) applies, no person may participate in a gathering which—
(a)consists of more than thirty persons, and

(b)takes place—

(i)in a private dwelling, including a houseboat,

(ii)on a vessel, other than a houseboat or a vessel used for public transport, or

(iii)on land which satisfies the condition in paragraph (2).

88108 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Hubes, 4, #777 of 1303 🔗

So is the 30 in your house/garden a legal thing, but the 6 outside only guidance?

I just don’t get it. Don’t give a fig myself, but when others are refusing to break either laws or rules (interchangeable in their minds) then there’s nothing I can do.

88115 ▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #778 of 1303 🔗

Yep. That’s correct. 30 is in the legislation for the places that aren’t currently in “lockdown” in this country. Not sure what it legally is for those places.
That 6 is the guidance is from when it was 6 in the law and they just couldn’t be bothered to update it.

88124 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Hubes, 11, #779 of 1303 🔗

Give you one example from the Naughty North West. Well, Greater Manchester, actually, but I’ve never lived there, I live in Lancashire.
Met up with the brother in law the other day, for a pint and a bite on his birthday. Now that’s not allowed, according to the ‘guidance’ – we mustn’t ‘socialise’. Nor can he come to our house, not for five minutes. BUT!! He’s a retired joiner, and if he comes to our house to “do work” that’s fine! He can come every bloody day for two weeks as a ‘workman’. And that is the state of the law in this country.
Fuck em.

88161 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #780 of 1303 🔗

It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous isn’t it. Wasn’t there some bullshit at one point that you could only meet one person from another household outside?? What the fuck was that all about. I can’t believe anybody followed any of the rules.

88281 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #781 of 1303 🔗

Yes. My cleaner can come – with her her son in tow – but I can’t see my own son or my granddaughters. Madness!

88302 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, #782 of 1303 🔗

That’s right, according to the rules, Cheez. I don’t think for a minute that you would break them.

88133 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #783 of 1303 🔗

No idea, do what you want. If your mates don’t want to join in, sod them. They are crap mates. You can meet who you like.

88265 ▶▶ microdave, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #784 of 1303 🔗

Not sure even Wankock would know the details if pressed.

Here’s a 3 part video of Wancock being interviewed, in which he repeatedly shows that he doesn’t understand his own “Rules”:

https://twitter.com/Dr_Drekkle/status/1290558761443168256

88279 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to microdave, #785 of 1303 🔗

Mutt Poppycock!

88351 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to microdave, #786 of 1303 🔗

What a prat.

88077 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 9, #787 of 1303 🔗

Hypochondria , the new blockbuster film from the National Health Service, Public Health England and their many Quangos. Over 30 years in the making. This year’s Academy Award frontrunner for best picture and best role by a supporting actress- PM Boris Johnson’s significant other. The Guardian called it a masterpiece of ,,, special effects. Coming soon to a theatre or drive-in near you.

88150 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to richard riewer, 1, #788 of 1303 🔗

A ‘Must See’.
Literally.
Sadly.

88078 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 24, #789 of 1303 🔗

I want to scream. Just been out to a lovely country pub which used to be our local before we lived abroad. Normally we have a pleasant chat with a group of folks whom we’ve got to know over the years-we have different politics, different views on Brexit etc but a love of the same football team so politics don’t matter.

We went to chat with them after our meal and there was a chap there we didn’t recognise. Talk got onto Covid and our “quarantine”. We expressed the opinion that the whole thing had been a shambles. He vehemently disagreed and thought that Boris has done a really good job and had certainly helped out his business.

We quoted all sorts of facts and figures, told him about the useless tests, the numbers, average age of death, how many more will die because of lockdown etc. He just wasn’t having any. His mother was eighty and he was glad that she had followed all the rules AND he knew two people who had died who were nowhere near eighty.

The sad thing was that his very limited personal experience had coloured his entire view of what had happened. I really do despair.

Can I scream now?

88094 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Margaret, 4, #790 of 1303 🔗

Help yourself.

88107 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Margaret, 14, #791 of 1303 🔗

“Boris has done a really good job” should not be a phrase than anybody sane utters

88273 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, #792 of 1303 🔗

Tis a phrase often found BTL in the Telegraph.

88149 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Margaret, 8, #793 of 1303 🔗

Welcome to the club.
On the bright side, I had a good conversation with my barber today, and he agreed with me that this is a terribly mismanaged scam.
But then, as an Iranian Kurd, he has seen worse, and as such a much better BS detector than 99% of the people currently alive.

88421 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jay Berger, #794 of 1303 🔗

Yeah, experience counts for a lot. Reading about it or seeing it on the news is not the same as really experiencing it firsthand.

88245 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, #795 of 1303 🔗

Which team ?

88525 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to JohnB, 1, #796 of 1303 🔗

Port Vale!

88090 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 23, #797 of 1303 🔗

You have to ask when this lunacy is going to stop. I’ve copied a link to a 2014 NHS article that confirms that 77% of people with flu are asymptomatic.

https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practice/three-quarters-of-people-with-flu-have-no-symptoms/

So why are two viruses that equally kill the old and frail treated so differently? Flu victims are running at 3 to 4 times Covid victims? Why are we still in lockdown?

88092 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mike Collins, 17, #798 of 1303 🔗

Flu also kills very young children, including toddlers and babies. Thank God we’ve had none of that with Covid. But again, it begs the question: Why are we will in lockdown?

88095 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Mike Collins, 16, #799 of 1303 🔗

Because it’s a scam and they’re using C19 as a cover

88116 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Mike Collins, 14, #800 of 1303 🔗

Help, I might need therapy, I am supposed to be a free thinking , rocking in the free world, new man and yet at the moment the only politicians who seem to have the bottle to stand up for sanity seem to be Trump and Bolsonaro!
We seem to be governed by a bunch of pusillanimous, cowering, scaredy cats, The Government said it wanted to; flatten the curve, save the NHS and save lives, well job done, hurrah, now time for the Government to pull out, we no longer need Government involved with Covid. We have nothing to fear but fear itself, time for Government to run the country and let the people take responsibility for sorting out the tail end of the virus nonsense.

88244 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #801 of 1303 🔗

& Lukashenko . Guy really has not received the credit he deserves.

88383 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to JohnB, 1, #802 of 1303 🔗

Interesting how the BBC is in full attack dog mode on Lukashenko now.
They must have received orders to force him to comply with muzzles and paranoia.
Funnily enough they’ve got a lower death rate than here as well.

88434 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #803 of 1303 🔗

They (BBC/CIA/WEF/WHO) seem to be staging a ‘colour’ revolution, even to the extent of importing people from the Maidan in Kyiv.

88268 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Martindale, #804 of 1303 🔗

Wankock used the slogan protect the NHS at the beginning of this week. If that’s their priority we’re stuffed!

88299 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Cheezilla, #805 of 1303 🔗

‘Protect’ = lock it up till it withers and dies, like the rest of the population

88136 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Mike Collins, 4, #806 of 1303 🔗

That’s really interesting Mike and something I would guess that most of us didn’t realise. So Covid is no different in that respect to flu in that a similar proportion are asymptomatic? By the way did you notice that some of the researchers came from Imperial College London?

88177 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Margaret, 4, #807 of 1303 🔗

Some of us discussed this last night, can’t remember who posted it. With say 20% getting infected, 80% of those are asymptomatic, so 4% of population (60M) get symptoms, in UK means 2.4M with symptoms. Death rate say 2%=48K deaths. Nearly there.

88208 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #808 of 1303 🔗

Maybe on the Pareto principle?
‘Some cases of super-spreading conform to the 20/80 rule, where approximately 20% of infected individuals are responsible for 80% of transmissions, although super-spreading can still be said to occur when super-spreaders account for a higher or lower percentage of transmissions. In epidemics with super-spreading, the majority of individuals infect relatively few secondary contacts.’

88181 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mike Collins, 3, #809 of 1303 🔗

Because people aren’t allowed to die until there is a vaccine. Just like flu.

88100 DressageRider, replying to DressageRider, 16, #810 of 1303 🔗

Remember that we were all questioning the survey that said 96% of people were wearing a mask outside the home? Well I tracked down the actual survey reported on the ONS website and this is what it says:

“This section includes some headline results from Wave 20 of the Opinions and Lifestyle Survey (OPN) covering the period 5 to 9 August 2020. The full results will be published in Coronavirus and the social impacts on Great Britain on 14 August 2020 .
Figure 3 shows that the proportion of adults wearing a face covering in the previous week at some point when leaving the home remained at 96% for the second consecutive week. This follows an increasing trend after face coverings became mandatory on public transport in England on 15 June, in Scotland on 22 June, and in Wales on 27 July. Face coverings became mandatory in shops and other enclosed spaces in Scotland on 10 July, and in England on 24 July.
Further breakdowns, such as the situations when a face covering was worn (for example while shopping) and by the countries of Great Britain, will be available in Coronavirus and the social impacts on Great Britain published on 14 August 2020 .”

Those little words “at some point” were left out of the MSM reports!

Source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronavirustheukeconomyandsocietyfasterindicators/13august2020#social-impacts-of-the-coronavirus-on-great-britain

88121 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to DressageRider, 14, #811 of 1303 🔗

It’s called lying by omission. Our mainstream media are now practised liars.

88123 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to DressageRider, 8, #812 of 1303 🔗

Wow well spotted. That’s just TERRIBLE.

88141 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to DressageRider, 5, #813 of 1303 🔗

Great bit of tracking! Many Thanks !

88119 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 8, #814 of 1303 🔗

Watching 24 Hours in A and E last night, the episode featured an old lady close to death. She had lung disease. Her family were told to be careful not to make her anxious as that could worsen her condition and possibly have fatal consequences.That got me thinking…maybe there was a strong element of mass hysteria in the national Covid story. What could be more anxiety-inducing for people with lung conditions than seeing grim-faced presenters and reports on so called trusted channels like BBC, Sky and ITV telling them there was a deadly plague-like virus on the loose which could kill half a million in the UK.

88132 ▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 11, #815 of 1303 🔗

It was deliberately induced mass hysteria.
With confirmed zombies, it has proved impossible to disinduce.
You had to be a fool to believe the propaganda, mind.
Most people are fools.

88148 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to OKUK, 5, #816 of 1303 🔗

Yes, I believe this happened as well. A nurse who volunteered in the busiest hospital in Queens, NY used her phone to recored conversations, patient charts, etc. (all protecting the privacy of course) and what she saw was terrifying and, frankly, criminal. She also believes that the symptoms people were presenting with were absolutely as a result of fear and stress and, more often than not, these people were put on ventilators and died. She’s quite convinced many of them never had Covid. I saw the interview with her on Dr. Mercola’s site a while back if anyone is interested in her story.

88120 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #817 of 1303 🔗

A James Corbett suggestion for talking about the cognitive dissonance of industrial indemnification –

All oil manufactures have been given indemnification against all future oil spills and environmental damage the cause.

No, wait, not oil companies – pharmaceutical companies have been indemnified against all future harms they cause.

88146 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Basics, #818 of 1303 🔗

Pharmaceutical companies have NOT been indemnified against all future harms they cause:. https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/5/10-081901/en/

88601 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sylvie, #819 of 1303 🔗

They have. Astra Zenecaare on recent record explaining it. It widely known to extist with government having standarised amounts they pay out £120,000 in uk for a serious harm or death.

88134 swedenborg, 18, #820 of 1303 🔗

Interesting to compare Faeroes Islands and New Zealand. Both isolated islands antipodes. Both with excellent health systems. Both were affected first wave in April but then both free from community transmission for almost 3 months. Then suddenly both having community outbreaks almost simultaneously.
Faeroes islands 45 000 inhabitants NZ 100 times more. Faeroes Islands outbreak now is related to Russian sailors infected a few locals and then a big outbreak in the indigenous population related to a big national annual feast. The Faeroes islands PM has the following problem.

The annual feast was allowed by him as there were just a few cases quarantined at that time. He thought it would be safe. He has now 114 active cases 0.2% of the population and 1000 persons in home quarantine (no camps as in NZ) that is 2% of the population. No hospitalizations so far and 35%  are 20-30 years old and mostly non retirement age.

Think about St Jessica with an outbreak where she was personally responsible for, had 11000 active cases,100.000 persons in quarantine. What does the Faeroes Islands PM do?
He is opening all schools in the Islands next Tuesday 7000 pupils. Some arrangements of school class size, testing all teachers, parents to drop off children at certain places but no facemasks for children or ridiculous rings as in Scotland. The Faroe Authorities taking a decision to mitigate but not lockdown and trying to survive economically by living with the reality they cannot keep the virus out. Reading some fragments from their press conferences show remarkable pragmatic and realistic persons in charge. Replacing the SAGE team with them would improve things directly.
You need political courage to do this in a small community where many people are related. They have problems with a few islands with very old people where they don’t want the virus to appear.
He is doing several mitigation measures but not economically destroying things. Sometimes in public health you have to do things in order to seem to do things for the public but at the same time not destroying the society. The authorities have realized that there is no way of stopping this virus and herd immunity is the only thing to stop it. They are now fine tuning the response for this purpose although perhaps not explicitly stating that.

Boris Johnson, Jessica Ahern or Prime Minister Bárður á Steig Nielsen? For me the choice is obvious.

88139 Bart Simpson, 1, #821 of 1303 🔗
88152 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #822 of 1303 🔗

I see the collective noun for “experts” appears to be a “panel”. Based on what we’ve seen and heard of these people I suggest a better one would be a “shithole of experts” (other suggestions welcome).

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/13/lifting-coronavirus-restrictions-too-early-would-be-a-disaster

There’s no paywall here (how could The Guardian ever charge for the detritus it publishes), but I’ll draw attention to this statement:

The group said targeted government support for businesses and workers would be needed as the economy restructures to accommodate physical distancing requirements, smoothing the transition to a “new normal” in which coronavirus remains a risk without a lasting vaccine.

So there you have it. These “experts” want to keep the hysteria and paranoia going indefinitely.

88159 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tenchy, 2, #823 of 1303 🔗

I prefer a shag sack of experts…

88240 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Will, 3, #824 of 1303 🔗

A delusion of
A mutual admiration of
An arrogance of

88452 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, #825 of 1303 🔗

A shitshower of experts.

88153 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 3, #826 of 1303 🔗

Daily Mail stirring the pot https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8624327/Face-coverings-lower-Covid-19-death-rate-5-effect-doubles-medical-masks.html . Telling bit is “ The authors found the best combination was prioritising the elderly and infectious cases. This reduced deaths more than random mask-wearing in the public.” So headline doesn’t match article.

88183 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to arfurmo, 6, #827 of 1303 🔗

“He and Hsiao-Han Chang, of the National Tsing Hua University in Taiwan, used mathematical modelling to examine the impact of face mask use among the general population during a coronavirus outbreak.”

Mathematical modelling – so extreme bullshit then.

88155 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #828 of 1303 🔗

You are all wrong and this Forbes article tells you why:

You Must Not ‘Do Your Own Research’ When It Comes To Science

https://archive.is/uWkeA

“Research both sides and make up your own mind.” It’s simple, straightforward, common sense advice. And when it comes to issues like vaccinations, climate change, and the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, it can be dangerous, destructive, and even deadly.

88166 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #829 of 1303 🔗

The article continues:
The reason is simple: most of us, even those of us who are scientists ourselves, lack the relevant scientific expertise needed to adequately evaluate that research on our own. In our own fields, we are aware of the full suite of data, of how those puzzle pieces fit together, and what the frontiers of our knowledge is. When laypersons espouse opinions on those matters, it’s immediately clear to us where the gaps in their understanding are and where they’ve misled themselves in their reasoning. When they take up the arguments of a contrarian scientist, we recognize what they’re overlooking, misinterpreting, or omitting. Unless we start valuing the actual expertise that legitimate experts have spent lifetimes developing, “doing our own research” could lead to immeasurable, unnecessary suffering.
It continues on the link above.
—-
Quite an article. My natural attitude is to evaluate expert opinions myself. I often find they are nothing special. Often I find expert opinions to be extraordinarily dangerous.

88173 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 10, #830 of 1303 🔗

Can we submit this material for the “Most patronising article in the history of the universe” award?

88185 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 5, #831 of 1303 🔗

It’s a winner isn’t it!

88180 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, 2, #832 of 1303 🔗

Especially where those ‘expert opinions’ are influenced by hubris at being an ‘expert’, keeping a job, conflicts of interest or massive funding by certain foundations.

My background was in science, I know there’s a lot I don’t know, but by having an inquiring mind and hopefully being free of outside bias (I’m not discounting personal biases, we all have those, but by having an awareness of it one can try to be as objective as one can) because my job doesn’t depend on keeping with a narrative, my conclusions are hopefully ‘cleaner’.

88259 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #833 of 1303 🔗

“doing our own research” could lead to immeasurable, unnecessary suffering.

So those “experts” in SAGE were obviously not advising but doing their own research, considering the immeasurable, unnecessary suffering they’ve caused.

88340 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, 1, #834 of 1303 🔗

So if even scientists lack the expertise needed to evaulate the research, where does The Science come from?

88170 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 5, #835 of 1303 🔗

LOL! How about this statement (my emphasis):

But that requires a kind of transformation within yourself. It means that you need to be humble, and admit that you, yourself, lack the necessary expertise to evaluate the science before you. It means that you need to be brave enough to turn to the consensus of scientific experts and ask, legitimately, what we know at the present stage. And it means you need to be open-minded enough to understand that your preconceptions are quite likely to be wrong in some, many, or possibly even all ways. If we listen to the science, we can attempt to take the best path possible forward through the greatest challenges facing modern society. We can choose to ignore it, but if we do, the consequences will only increase in severity.

Yes, let’s turn to those noted experts at ICL, especially Professor Ferguson, who is never wrong.

88190 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 2, #836 of 1303 🔗

Oh a fine selection Tenchy Sir!

88218 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, 2, #837 of 1303 🔗

I’m sorry – that’s creepy. That’s religious indoctrination

88263 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #838 of 1303 🔗

If we listen to the science, we can attempt to take the best path possible forward through the greatest challenges facing modern society. We can choose to ignore it, but if we do, the consequences will only increase in severity.

We obviously got the through the looking glass version.

88236 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #839 of 1303 🔗

Couple of weeks old. I remember swearing at Ethan Siegel at the time, can’t be arsed to do so again. Well, ok then, – Twat !

88242 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 1, #840 of 1303 🔗

New to me and please it’s helped you pass another happy moment.

88657 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, #841 of 1303 🔗

Prof Pantsdown and SAGE made sure we will never ever believe ‘scientists’ again

88156 Bella, replying to Bella, 6, #842 of 1303 🔗

Can anyone tell me why football clubs haven’t gone bust? Given their dependence on gate receipts. Just asking. Don’t understand nada

88171 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, #843 of 1303 🔗

Footballers graciously took a hit in their pockets. Handycock didn’t. The now vanished P Morgan established that back in the days of daily rage for the nations breakfast. Nudge on toast this morning…

88196 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 6, #844 of 1303 🔗

Morgans beloved arsenal continue to pay Ozil £200000+ per week for sitting on his backside (not much of a hit there) yet make 50+ non playing staff redundant …..

88230 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, #845 of 1303 🔗

Invincible nastiness.

88239 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, #846 of 1303 🔗

Without the non playing staff these hyperinflates aren’t going to have a pitch to spit on. The lower leagues look so precarious to a casual observer, good luck to them.

88189 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Bella, 7, #847 of 1303 🔗

Big clubs are not dependent on gate money.. it it tv and sponsorship and now that has started again, they are still getting that money,
However some of the championship sides and those below that level are struggling . hence they stopped their seasons months ago to minimise costs. They will suffer and many will go out of business.
And as to the players, same applies..those on premiership wages are ok, those in the lower divisions who may only earn £hundreds a week are struggling

88210 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to mjr, #848 of 1303 🔗

Thank you everyone

88216 ▶▶ Will, replying to Bella, 3, #849 of 1303 🔗

Premiership football clubs make so much money out of TV and merchandise that actual bums on seats are the icing on the cake, obviously nice but not existentially important. Lower down in the leagues, actual paying supporters are considerably more significant as a revenue source.

Other sports, especially rugby, are not in such a clever position and have had to cut their cloth, quite considerably, accordingly.

Push is coming to shove already in horse racing with trainers and owners pulling out of the sport although I cannot help wondering whether covid happens to be a convenient excuse….

88277 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bella, 3, #850 of 1303 🔗

Contrary to what’s said in some of the other replies, I believe most premier league football clubs are run on fairly tight margins (but not small budgets) thanks to the rather inflated pay packets of the players, which go up and up and up year on year. As such, whilst gate receipts dont make up a majority of most top clubs earnings, they still make up a sizeable portion. A lot of the biggest clubs are financed by billionaires & the others can afford to scrape by for a season without gate receipts.

Lower down the league system there will be clubs struggling, some will have asked players to take a cut, some won’t.

My club of choice, Arsenal, take £100m a season (if I recall) from gate receipts so it’s a huge huge hit to finances, they’ve got most players to take a 12.5% pay cut, laid off 55 non playing staff (needless, their wages combined is equal to one players salary for a few months) and the directors took cuts too. They’re banking on fans being allowed to return from the new year, if our moronic government (and those around the world) continue to ban mass gatherings beyond that, there will be significant disruption to clubs of all sizes. A few countries are allowing up to a few thousands fans again now (and belarus never stopped), so I’m not really sure why the UK thinks its so fucking special so as we’re STILL limited to just 30 bloody people.

88163 microdave, replying to microdave, 21, #851 of 1303 🔗

3 stories in the Mail I’ve just looked at:

Northampton faces lockdown after nearly 300 workers at a sandwich factory test positive for coronavirus

Face coverings lower the Covid-19 death rate by 5%, study claims

Covid-19 is 12 times deadlier than the flu

The comments (at least the “Newest” that I’ve seen) rip these to shreds, for instance:

Funny how they never mention the number of people out of those who a) actually had any symptoms or b) needed to go hospital.. Since July 4th have hospitals been inundated with Covid patients? NOPE. yet the farcical nonsense goes on. Boris take the hard hat off and wake up. Stop the fear

5% of 13 deaths isn’t even one, so no lives were saved today using that theory. Let’s stop this nonsense then. We don’t make cars drive at 5mph to save a couple of lives a day, there has to be a level of risk

But you don’t test someone for flu and if they get run over by a bus 3 weeks later put on death certificates they died of flu like they do with Covid

88179 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to microdave, 17, #852 of 1303 🔗

I don’t have a DM account to post a comment, but I have seen the actual study on “face coverings”… You’ll never guess what! It’s another idiotic “study” based on mathematical model that is divorced from reality and is contradicted by numerous Randomised Controlled Trials!

Here, we use mathematical modeling to examine the epidemiological impact of face masks, considering resource limitations and a range of supply and demand dynamics…

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17922-x

In other words: “let’s start with the (demonstrably false) premise that masks work… churn the model… Et voila—our model shows masks work!”

88234 ▶▶▶ microdave, replying to IMoz, 4, #853 of 1303 🔗

And from my last last link:

Imperial College London carried out study involving over 100,000 volunteers

That would be the same Imperial College London where a certain Prof Neil Ferguson is based. I don’t think I’ll be paying much attention to this “Study”…

88243 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to microdave, 2, #854 of 1303 🔗

… and which receives massive funding from the pharmaceutical industry.

88258 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, #855 of 1303 🔗

plus you-know-who!

88254 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to microdave, #856 of 1303 🔗

100,000 volunteers?!

88309 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to microdave, #857 of 1303 🔗

… and the finger-prick test is placed in the wrong place on the finger—do not do what is shown in that picture, you’ll get a big “ouchie!”—half way between the nail and the pad is a way less painful place! (you actually squeeze on the pad to collect the blood at the tip, but we’re getting too technical here) 😉

88497 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to microdave, #858 of 1303 🔗

Given that they’ll have no live students where did they get the supposed 100,000 volunteers from ?

88337 ▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to IMoz, #859 of 1303 🔗

WTF are supply and demand dynamics? Is that an aeronautical term?

88342 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to HoMojo, #860 of 1303 🔗

Idiotic way of describing a change in supply and demand (cf. ‘statics’ to mean constant supply and demand, no, I’m not making it up, I’ve seen that used)—I really can’t stand papers that use complex words to mean simple things for which there are simple words. Intelligent people don’t do that, trust me, they actually want others to understand what they’re trying to tell you.

88671 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to IMoz, #861 of 1303 🔗

You don’t have to be a paid subscribe to have a DM account. I really recommend people posting sane comments like the one quoted. I’ve seen increasing numbers of anti-lockdown posters since I started posting about a month ago. More voices would be helpful.

88250 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to microdave, 3, #862 of 1303 🔗

5% of notalot is notalot!

88267 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #863 of 1303 🔗

And at significant psychological, social, economic and environmental cost to boot.

88331 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to microdave, 1, #864 of 1303 🔗

At this rate the entire country will be locked down by September.

88473 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to microdave, 2, #865 of 1303 🔗

The comments on the ‘deadlier than flu’ one are amazing. Some have over 1k likes!

People are getting it. I feel…..ennervated 🙂

88496 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to microdave, #866 of 1303 🔗

Good Covid kickers those Mail readers.
Oh look, it’s another food processing place (sandwich factory) which will be perfect for the Covid since it’s permanently winter inside.

88167 Dave Tee, 13, #867 of 1303 🔗

Meanwhile, The Madness still reigns unabated amongst our Christian leaders but there are one or two shining exceptions, especially across the Pond. Bishop Donald Degrood of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, has now reinstated what we Catholics call the Sunday Precept: “you must attend Mass on Sundays”. There are of course exemptions for those who are “at risk” and also for the Terminally Terrified – who are nonetheless advised that they should “discern whether or not their fear is morally justifiable or inordinate”. Good for him.

88184 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #868 of 1303 🔗

We had a romantic notion of loading up our touring bikes and pedalling off to Wales next week. When I started looking for sites and friendly pubs (hmm) it hit me that I had forgotten that between the High Peak and Wales is my home county, Cheshire, where there’s a big factory producing all the Karens.

I wasted about 2 hours online trying to find a campsite which was a) open, b) with toilets open, c) that takes tents. Even a favourite campsite near Llangollen, rough and ready normally, home to biker rallies etc is closed to tents. Anyway I finally found one at Marbury, near Whitchurch, which would serve as our first stop (quite a long cycle) and then I looked at the local pub, THE SWAN AT MARBURY – I name and shame you!

Under a tab, ‘Safely does it’, I found this gem sorry it’s so long but it’s all so brilliant, I just had to share it. The emphasis is mine:

[PART 1

I know I’m biased but I really do think pubs are important. Closeness with your family and friends and eating and drinking together is part of the fabric of life and keeps our souls nourished and in equilibrium. We need contact with other human beings, especially our loved ones. Or at least most of them. (Beer’s good too)

So here we go – an essential service resumes. We’ve tried to keep it as much like the Swan of yore but we have to follow Boris’ rules as well as trying to manage our little business through the financial quagmire. I think the key to this is common sense. The country has been hit by a deadly virus and even though it’s not as bad as we first thought it could flair up again so we need to be sensible and take precautions. We have carefully read HMG’s guidelines, which are actually down to earth and sensible , and this is what we have decided to do:

Changes to opening hours
This is actually not to do with physical safety but with financial safety. Whilst we ease ourselves back into trading we will only be opening Tuesday to Sunday. Food will be available all day as usual, from 12-9pm Tuesday to Saturday and 12-8.30pm on Sundays. We will be taking part in the Eat Out to Help Out scheme on Tuesdays and Wednesdays from Tuesday 4th August.

Bookings
It’s best to book your table in advance, preferably through our website but we can also take bookings by telephone.  We ask you to follow the household Government guidance about groups of no more than 6 people from any household, or no more than 10 people from two households. We won’t be able to check who’s who so we trust you to do the right thing.

Getting into the pub and social distancing
In these times i t’s not wise to be close to each other. A virus will find it harder to find you if you’re over there.

We ask you to use the proper front door when you arrive at the pub, that is the one on the road. We know many of you have never used it before because it’s round the corner from the patio door but it’s actually a nicer entrance so you might well take to it. If you need a step-free entrance ignore that guidance and use the patio as both entrance and exit.

Once through the door, someone from the staff will take your drink order and help you to find your table. We have made sure that all our tables are safely distanced.

Government Track and Trace scheme
Boris has asked us to get details of our customers in case there’s another outbreak locally. This seems sensible to me so we will keep the booking contact as the main contact and trust that you can supply HMG with all other people in your party if needed. We won’t keep this information for longer than we are asked to by the authorities and we won’t give it to anyone else. We respect our customers privacy and will not exploit the situation.

Cleaning
Our housekeeping team do a really good job of keeping the pub clean even in normal times. I’m always proud of how the place looks. During these Covid days we have extended the cleaning hours to allow common contact surfaces to be cleaned every day. In addition to this we will have cleaning throughout the day. It can’t be perfect, viruses are tenacious little devils, but it all helps. CONTD

88227 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #869 of 1303 🔗

Hyperloquacity precipitates cerebral malfunctioning.

88249 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, #870 of 1303 🔗

Only too true!

88301 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #871 of 1303 🔗

From the Department of Obfuscatory Verbiage

88346 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark, 4, #872 of 1303 🔗

Drink. Feck. Arse. Girls.

88241 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #873 of 1303 🔗

i t’s not wise to be close to each other. A virus will find it harder to find you if you’re over there.

Best laugh I’ve had all day!

88365 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Cheezilla, #874 of 1303 🔗

Lovely image.

88330 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #875 of 1303 🔗

Covid days?? They’re really caught up in it all, aren’t they?

Two pages of rules just to go to the pub? No thanks.

88629 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to A. Contrarian, #876 of 1303 🔗

Precisely what we said. We’ve gone back to the drawing board with this trip.

88667 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #877 of 1303 🔗

Good luck with the trip, if you can find a way to do it. Since I would have to use the trains to go anywhere, I’ve given up any thought of travelling this year. I’ve got my exemption card, but it’s still dire to use public transport. And then the queuing and the booking and everything else coronaphobic just puts me off the whole thing. So it’s the allotment every day. No boost for the economy, but a boost for my (fading) sanity.

88192 davews, replying to davews, 8, #878 of 1303 🔗

Our MP, James Sutherland, was on Talk Radio this afternoon. Although clearly supporting Boris he strongly supports just getting back to normal and accepting the virus. He is our new MP after the last election, previously we had Andrew Mackay and Philip Lee, you will remember both of those so maybe it is third time lucky! Not had reason to contact him and it does seem he is probably a sceptic but reluctant to declare it formally. He is currently holidaying in France so guess just a little concerned at being quarantined.

88215 ▶▶ RickH, replying to davews, 8, #879 of 1303 🔗

Although clearly supporting Boris …”

The mark of a dickhead – whatever else.

88718 ▶▶ Julian, replying to davews, #880 of 1303 🔗

Although clearly supporting Boris he strongly supports just getting back to normal and accepting the virus.” Hard to see how those two positions are compatible.

88194 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #881 of 1303 🔗

THE SWAN AT MARBURY, PART 2. (Run by a pair of cartoon characters, see bottom.) The quote from Henry V just slays me:

Table Service
Our staff will do their best to keep a safe distance where possible during service. Cutlery will be placed in tankards on your table, and will be replaced after each sitting. Alongside this, salt and pepper shakers and table surfaces will be sanitised regularly through the day. We will be looking after you at your table, so please do not go up to the bar to order your food or drink. Individual use menus will be found on the table, then recycled and replaced after each sitting. Every menu will have a QR code so you can scan it and read the menu on your own device if you so choose.

Bar Service
The principle is that we’re going to have table service so you don’t need to go to the bar. Tom and I are devastated that we can’t have people huddled around the counter, it’s so lovely to have all those people chatting with one another. After all this is a large part of what a pub is about. However we must be sensible so we’ll be discouraging this but have instead devoted the whole of the far end of the pub’s tables for drinkers.

Patio
We’ve never booked outside tables and we won’t be doing so now but you are more than welcome to sit outside where there will be full table service. Again, please resist visiting the bar and instead wait for a member of staff to come over and take your order, whether it be drinks or food.

Toilets
We have thought about having some sort of system for marshalling people using the loos but have decided that we should trust you to keep social distancing in the toilets, and toilet corridor. It should be fairly easy as there’s plenty of room. We will be cleaning the high touch points at least every hour.

Payment
Pay by contactless card if you can or perhaps one of those smart phone apps. We will take cash if we need to.

Feeling unwell
If you feel unwell, or are in contact with someone showing COVID symptoms, please give us a call and we will happily rearrange your reservation for another day when you are feeling better.
and finally

Let me remind you of the end of Henry V’s rousing speech before the battle of Agincourt. You know the one, “Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more ….” , that finishes:

“I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game’s afoot:
Follow your spirit; and upon this charge,
Cry ‘God for Harry! England! and Saint George!’ “

It’s probably a bit over the top for the village pub reopening but we are both very excited to be back.

Cheers, Tom and Jerry.

88221 ▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #882 of 1303 🔗

‘Even so quickly may one catch the plague.’

88493 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #883 of 1303 🔗

Sounds like they are doing their best in trying circumstances.

88628 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, #884 of 1303 🔗

What, writing all that drivel?

88204 Country Mumkin, 3, #885 of 1303 🔗

See the comments from “Kelly” in the article Toby referenced above Takes from the madhouse link from Toby above. http://www.talesfromthemadhouse.com/a-tale-of-two-tyrannies-psychiatry-and-the-public-health-response-to-coronavirus/ . There’s a march on 29 Aug. Anyone know anything about it? 🙂

88213 RickH, replying to RickH, 16, #886 of 1303 🔗

Whist in hospital today (a place, before anybody moans about the NHS, where I have never had anything but superb care), I came across the massive absurdities imposed on all parts of our lives – particularly at this non-epidemic stage of a mild virus.

I have a variety of pretty serious health issues that need fairly regular attention. As a result of the proper functioning of he NHS, I have been kept alive and in reasonable health for six critical years.

But now – as those proper services are starting up again, these serious issues are dwarfed by stupid provisions to deal with the fictional threat of Covid. Yesterday I had a review of a scan that was three months late.

I say all this as one of those rare individuals who might actually turn up my toes with an infection. But nothing justifies :

  • the blanket enforced wearing of masks that are objectively harmful and of little benefit
  • sticking unwelcome swabs up your nose and down your throat in the chase for a rare virus that can’t even be found with certainty by the test. (The auxillary who handed me the swab also donned a 1-use visor, FFS. Cost implications?)
  • Pointless one-way systems designed to dodge a virus that (a) might be carried by 1-in- ?-thousands of people whose paths you cross and (b) can’t be securely identified as an infection by the tested swab.
  • Waiting areas and wards using space ineffectively as a result of anti-social distancing

Of course – none of this is new stuff – just quotidian fuming. But, as Victor Meldrew would say …………

88223 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #887 of 1303 🔗

Whist in hospital today

Prefer bridge myself, but whist is ok …

88229 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to RickH, 2, #888 of 1303 🔗

Its like the establishments have lost their minds although most are run by Common Purpose grads, so it does explain a lot.

88238 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to RickH, 1, #889 of 1303 🔗

Hope all goes well RickH, Viva la Revolucion,

‘Into the Dungeon with evil men
The people has risen we’re free again
Come out of the closet
Come out of the hole
Come out of the woodwork
Come into the fold
Rebels and fighters, a license to kill
Unite with the bandits down from the hills
Open your windows
Open your doors
Open your minds…’
Etc.

88247 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #890 of 1303 🔗

https://youtu.be/vvWEKhGU6X4
Showing my age, maybe Rick remembers it too.

88378 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bruno, #891 of 1303 🔗

Liked it Sylvie! A bit O/T, I still have original copy of this. The title certainly describes the politicians et al!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=35&v=CHssoYSb1G0&feature=emb_logo

DavidC

88491 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, #892 of 1303 🔗

The one way system in one of are hospitals is so bizarre that wheelchair users are exempted.

88233 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 11, #893 of 1303 🔗

Toby doesn’t think this blog is having any impact on public opinion. This would be difficult to assess, but a look at the Sun comments tonight below the report about Northampton revealed they were almost all cynical about the virus and sceptical about the government’s policies.

88237 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Bugle, 1, #894 of 1303 🔗

I wonder if anyone might think again if they were to watch:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/HzWis8DdHL3H/

88253 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to PastImperfect, 4, #895 of 1303 🔗

I think a lot of people are thinking again anyway.

88269 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bugle, 7, #896 of 1303 🔗

A lot more than before. They’re starting to smell a rat, they’re starting to wake up.

“You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time [Karen-types spring to mind here], but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.”

88294 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bugle, #897 of 1303 🔗

What would increase this blog’s impact on public opinion?

88297 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 4, #898 of 1303 🔗

More swearing?
Kitten pictures
Naked ladies
Football results
Pictures of cars
Puppies
Make up tips
ummmmmm I am really pushing the envelope here

88490 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, #899 of 1303 🔗

Joining the Volkswagen class action if pop up ads are anything to go by.

88541 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 1, #900 of 1303 🔗

That isn’t its purpose. It’s for us, to strengthen, console and encourage us.

88489 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bugle, #901 of 1303 🔗

Much the same in the Mail on any the Covid/lockdown articles.

88662 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, #902 of 1303 🔗

Yes, and the best thing to do is to get in and comment freely on those articles. I do my best to participate every day.

88246 Will, 3, #903 of 1303 🔗

Behind the paywall but Fraser Nelson’s Telegraph article is a must read even if it is highly likely to send your blood pressure through the stratosphere.

88261 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #904 of 1303 🔗

France, Malta and Netherlands added to quarantine list.

88271 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Sarigan, 1, #905 of 1303 🔗

Family still there. Oh b***r

88352 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #906 of 1303 🔗

0400 on Saturday is the deadline. I am currently 4395th in queue for Eurotunnel website to try and get clients back.

88429 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, #907 of 1303 🔗

Dieppe-Newhaven it is then …

88488 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, #908 of 1303 🔗

If someone swims The Channel will they have to quarantine?

88608 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, 1, #909 of 1303 🔗

seems to be plenty of spaces available in small inflatables

88272 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, 3, #910 of 1303 🔗

Have they taken Sweden off or are they still sulking?

88349 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark, 3, #911 of 1303 🔗

Still sulking

88296 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 1, #912 of 1303 🔗

Has anybody been busted for breaking travel quarantine?

88360 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Two-Six, #913 of 1303 🔗

One person, I think.

88431 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, #914 of 1303 🔗

The guy in Guernsey ?

88487 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sarigan, 1, #915 of 1303 🔗

That’ll teach the Dutch to let schools reopen for full month with no problems.

88704 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Sarigan, #916 of 1303 🔗

Quote
It’s a reversion to Europe of the 1700s. Peasants stay in their own county unless they have permission from a nobleman to travel.Governments must get a boner just thinking about wielding so much power.

88275 6097 Smith W, replying to 6097 Smith W, 6, #917 of 1303 🔗

France proving the effectiveness of masks

88283 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to 6097 Smith W, 11, #918 of 1303 🔗

I bet Johnson’s response to the collapse in UK GDP will be….mandatory masks 24/7 everywhere, including in the home. He can set up a new Ministry of Masks (MoM) and solve unemployment with a new 5 million strong Mask Task Force (MTF) to ensure total compliance.

88287 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 3, #919 of 1303 🔗

“What a splendid idea Fwah fwawaaah, British Mask For British People!”

88291 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Two-Six, 4, #920 of 1303 🔗

The economy will be saved by masks as a new chain of megastores will spread across the land: MASKWORLD.

88321 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Richard O, 3, #921 of 1303 🔗

And we can all take vacations on Mask Island, next to the Garbage Patch in the Pacific Ocean.

88345 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lucky, 1, #922 of 1303 🔗

How dare you!

88486 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard O, #923 of 1303 🔗

Is there a recognised hierarchy of “my mask is more stylish/compliant/expensive than theirs”?

88298 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Two-Six, 8, #924 of 1303 🔗

God save our gracious Mask!
Long live our noble Mask!
God save The Mask!
Send it victorious
Happy and glorious
Long to reign over us
God save the Mask!

88303 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 1, #925 of 1303 🔗

lol, I suggest you disengage from all this for a bit, do some gardening 🙂

88306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Two-Six, 3, #926 of 1303 🔗

Great idea, although I don’t have a garden. If I did however, would I be required to wear a mask?

88389 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, #927 of 1303 🔗

Not yet.

88427 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, 5, #928 of 1303 🔗

I nailed a mask on my apartment door just the other day. Now I’m fully protected indoors.

88485 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard O, #929 of 1303 🔗

They tried that in Spain early in their lockdown, recruited tens of thousands from the unemployed to become Covid Compliance Marshals, I expect most traffic wardens would love that job.

88285 Allen, replying to Allen, 39, #930 of 1303 🔗

AVG Age of “Death by Covid”:

Austria 80+ years Source EMS;
Canada 86 years Source HCSC;
England 80+ years Source NHS;
France 84 years Source SPF;
Germany 82 years Source RKI;
Italy 81 years Source ISS;
Spain 82 years Source MDS;
Switzerland 84 years Source BAG;
United States 80 years Source CDC;
Sweden 86 years Source FOHM

A “global pandemic” is certainly not defined by age of deaths EXCEEDING the normal lifespan with no young healthy people are affected.

I will offer up just a few broad comments and put details to them if you wish:

1) There is no excess death toll due to virus- that death toll is due to policy shifts and attribution to “Covid” is patently false when not outright administrative corruption by health officials;

2) Above “excess” death toll is an artifact of nursing home mismanagement- 60% of “covid deaths” from nursing homes + or – 3%- once that is taken away we have near record numbers of low mortality rates in country after country;

3) The average age of “Covid deaths” worldwide EXCEEDS the normal lifespan of citizens of those countries- that being 81 years old with on average 2.5 comorbidities- think about that;

4) Average number of weeks of life lost due to “Covid” is a mere 1-3 weeks and that’s without consideration of having died “from” or “with”;

5) PCR tests used to determine “cases” are a diagnostic fraud- inventor of PCR test, Kary Mullis, asserted PCR tests were not designed for diagnostic purposes;

6) Cases which are determined by flawed PCR tests are purposefully juiced up in numerous ways- want details?- this is not simply more tests=more cases we are talking medical and institutional fraud- why did the CDC change years old policies on March 24th, April 14th and June 13th with each change designed to increase number of “positive” test cases;

7) The WHO changed it’s definition of pandemic in 2009. Why? What preceded this in 2007?

8) In the annals of pandemic since the year 350 this one ranks 23rd out of 24 in overall deaths as a percentage of population worldwide. The swine flu pandemic of 2009 (coincidentally the same year the WHO changed that definition) ranks 24th. These two pandemics are several hundred (thousand in some cases) % points lower in mortality rates than past pandemics- how did they even make the cut;

9) The “deaths from Covid” are from a specific demographic- pandemics are noted to impact mortality rates of a broad demographic. That demographic is not merely the elderly but the most fragile of the fragile of the elderly who could die from any infection in their condition;

10) “Deaths from Covid” are from specific locations. Pandemics are defined (supposed to be) by cutting across a wide swath of geographic regions. This pandemic has the habit of only impacting densely populated areas and more specifically the elderly in those areas and more specifically nursing homes- in the US for example if we eliminated just the deaths from NJ and NYC nursing homes we would not be having this conversation. In Italy same would be said if we eliminated deaths from elderly in Northern Italy- same elsewhere Belgium, spain, Canada, Sweden etc.;

The above 10 points are the short list.

If people would stop wearing masks and stay off the internet and cable news for a week no one would know there was such a virus in existence.

You can’t stop living the lie until you stop telling it.

88373 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Allen, 6, #931 of 1303 🔗

Here’s the scary thing (as if there aren’t already enough scary things!) — with so many elderly folks dying this year there’s a good chance there will be many fewer deaths of the elderly this upcoming flu season. This happens regularly when a particularly bad season is followed by a milder one and, therefore, many fewer deaths (and vice versa — more deaths the year after a mild flu season as happened this year in many countries). So this coming flu season more kids and younger people will die — as is ALWAYS the case with the REGULAR flu vs. Covid — but the cabal will claim that the virus has mutated and is now killing off younger people and children! What an insidious way to keep the fear going. Hospitalizations will rise, as they always do during the winter months, but somehow collective amnesia will kick in and nobody will remember that the regular flu kills hundreds of thousands of people every year.

88483 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #932 of 1303 🔗

Hospitalisations are rising by putting people in there who don’t need to be. It’s a way of bumping up the numbers without actually lying and is why recovery rates are remarkably high these days.

88825 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #933 of 1303 🔗

I think this virus was a deliberate ploy to kill as many older people as they could. They are considered uneconomically viable. Anyone who thinks the government is a benevolent institution who actually cares for the people needs their heads examining.

88382 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Allen, 2, #934 of 1303 🔗

Allen, regarding point 2 – I wouldn’t blame the nursing homes. I DO blame the government, IT mandated that no patients be admiitted to hospitals from nursing or care homes, IT mandated that all nursing/care home patients in hospitals be returned to the nursing/care homes, IT mandated that those nursing/care homes be locked down.

The staff, almost universally, had no knowledge of viral disease, were confronted by something unknown where they scared out of their wits and were left almost to their own devices to try and cope with it. It was murder by the government and I make no apologies for using that term. It was disgraceful, immoral and horrible.

88828 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to DavidC, 2, #935 of 1303 🔗

They also badgered families into signing DNRs.

88406 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Allen, 1, #936 of 1303 🔗

That’s an impressive and thought-provoking list. Thanks.

88482 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Allen, 2, #937 of 1303 🔗

Indeed, how can UK still be included in the Pandemic since it’s not even Epidemic here now, if it ever was.

88540 ▶▶ annie, replying to Allen, 2, #938 of 1303 🔗

Live.p normally. As normally as you possibly can.
Normality is a corrosive acid eating away at the terror.
Small holes, then big holes. Keep at it.

88304 Badgerman, 8, #939 of 1303 🔗

Well, that’s my annual holiday fucked over by these utter morons masquerading as a government. I have spent the last months coping with this lunacy like everybody else and working my nuts off to keep the SME I work for afloat. Enough already. I am ashamed to have voted for Boris Johnson. Am now politically homeless. These supine spineless idiots need to be swept away.

88308 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 9, #940 of 1303 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53772735 fine for not wearing muzzle max over £3000 . What is this obsession with their wearing?

88315 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to arfurmo, 8, #941 of 1303 🔗

They’re just jealous of the success masks are having in Spain and France, so they are making sure that the UK is not lagging behind! 😉

88344 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to IMoz, 1, #942 of 1303 🔗

Well yes, there’s success for them to look to! It’s a terrible state this country has come to though!

88377 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to IMoz, 6, #943 of 1303 🔗

Indeed, there is a correlation between how fascist a country is in enforcing muxzzle wearing and o of cases.
Clue – Sweden doesn’t see any point in them- will someone shove this down the govt cretins throat so they understand

88317 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to arfurmo, 8, #944 of 1303 🔗

It’s making me so fed up, its so provably pointless when such little prevalence even if they were able to actually prove their effectiveness in the first place – which they havent been able to do. And yet, everywhere keeps fucking hammering down on the bloody things.

And now hairdressers & other close contact service providers have to wear BOTH a mask AND visor for fuck sake!!!

88319 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Mark II, 7, #945 of 1303 🔗

Because both are demonstrably protective against aerosol transmission! It’s both sad and cretinous when someone sees medical personnel wear something but they never enquire as to the reason why those people are wearing it in the first place… Ironically, pre-COVID-19, the use of masks in surgical theatres was being questioned; now: masks for everyone!

88386 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to IMoz, #946 of 1303 🔗

IMoz,
Are you sure? I think they are useful with droplets but much less so with aerosols, where the ‘droplet’ size is very much smaller.

One of my old school mates is a retired dentist. I asked him about masks when this whole thing kicked off. His reponse was that he had to change them for every patient and that after twenty minutes or so they were usless (dampness etc). He also pointed out that they were for the benefit of the patient so that no droplets or particles were dropped onto the patient (he was a dentist so victim might be a better word! Joking aside he was an excellent dentist) and that they were of no benefit at all to him.

88338 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark II, 5, #947 of 1303 🔗

Violent insurrection.

88347 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #948 of 1303 🔗

Yes please, when do we start!

88401 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendy, #949 of 1303 🔗

See if you’re in striking distance: https://www.standupx.info/

88442 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sam Vimes, -1, #950 of 1303 🔗

Anyone coming here and calling for violence has to be put on the watch list of agent provocateurs or Far Left/Right infiltrators. No one who loves this country will be calling for civil war to make things even worse than they already are.

88422 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Mark II, #951 of 1303 🔗

But for client, in 13th Aug ‘rules’ we are ‘permitted to remove a face covering’

if required in order to receive treatment or services, for example when getting a haircut

I’ll let everyone know this is now ‘permitted’ in ‘the rules’

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

88325 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to arfurmo, 7, #952 of 1303 🔗

Simple:

  1. Compliance test
  2. Psychological transformation ritual
  3. Guarantor of the second wave due to bacterial lung infections (in tandem with hand sanitisers)
88332 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Richard O, 14, #953 of 1303 🔗

The funny thing about hand sanitisers is that they dry hands. What happens with dry hands? Skin cracks. What happens when skin cracks? The dermal protective layer is compromised. What happens when the dermal protective layer is compromised? You get the idea… and then it’ll be a great idea to introduce mandatory gloves 😉

88339 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to IMoz, 6, #954 of 1303 🔗

The ruling elite get a real kick out of people doing all the damage to themselves. They are laughing at us.

Heard a personal anecdote this evening about a man in the USA who went blind in one eye due to overuse of cheap hand sanitiser made in China. Amazon refunded his $100, so all’s well that ends well.

88363 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Richard O, 2, #955 of 1303 🔗

Incidentally, some hand sanitisers are found to be using methanol instead of ethanol/IPA, Canada had issued some recalls; sounds like that guy got methanol, it’s known to have happened before: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4222078/

88402 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, #956 of 1303 🔗

… which will lead to fungal infections. Nice!

88405 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #957 of 1303 🔗

Yes. 2020 has been a classic for bacteria and fungi.

88476 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Richard O, #958 of 1303 🔗

Yes. Always been fascinated by them. Shame about the human delusions.

88477 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard O, #959 of 1303 🔗

+ bronchial disorders.

88356 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to arfurmo, 8, #960 of 1303 🔗

£3000 fines for fucks sake. I hope they don’t remove the exemptions. This is intolerable. It really is.

88416 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Two-Six, 2, #961 of 1303 🔗

They’re tying themselves in knots now – brilliant – some of latest 13th Aug advice on gov uk copied and pasted (repetition theirs)

Face coverings are not required in restaurants with table service, bars, and pubs. If removing your face covering to eat or drink in an indoor premises with a café or designated seating area, then you can remove your face covering in this area only.
Face coverings are not required in restaurants with table service, bars, and pubs. If other indoor premises have a café or seating area for you to eat and drink, then you can remove your face covering in this area only. You must put a face covering back on once you leave your seating area. If removing your face covering to eat or drink in an indoor premises with a café or designated seating area, then you can remove your face covering in this area only.

Also
If necessary, the police and Transport for London (TfL) officers have enforcement powers including issuing fines of £100 (halving to £50 if paid within 14 days).

Exemptions remain the same, plus very clearly:

Exemption cards Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.
Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.
This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law.
Access exemption card templates

It’s worth a read: (?!)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

88450 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Lucky, 6, #962 of 1303 🔗

So, basically, if you’vve got a shop, right, just pepper it with sit down tables. Spread them out evenly around the shop so there is no ‘designated seating area’. The whole place has table ‘service’.

Encourage people to browse your wares and maybe take a seat every now and again. Always have a kettle boiling. Ask everyone who sits down if they want a free cuppa. Get some people you know to always be sitting somewhere like ‘customers’, amongst the actual customers.

Bobs your uncle. No muzzles needed.

88455 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Farinances, 1, #963 of 1303 🔗

Love it! There was a place like this in Leicester… once…

88478 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lucky, 1, #964 of 1303 🔗

That’s nuts,several paragraphs telling what we must or mustn’t do until ‘unless you don’t want to and you don’t have to say why’.

88357 ▶▶ Mark, replying to arfurmo, 17, #965 of 1303 🔗

Under current guidance, people who refuse to wear a face covering where it is required face a £100 fine, which can be reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days.
The new enforcement measures will see that penalty repeatedly doubled for subsequent offences, up to a maximum of £3,200 .”

They really are determined to make people really hate them, aren’t they?

Never forget. Never forgive.

Anyone who suffers penalties from these laws is absolutely justified in punching in the face any current MP should they meet him or her, however many years down the line.

88361 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mark, 3, #966 of 1303 🔗

£3,300 would have made more sense. Or £6,660.

88417 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Richard O, #967 of 1303 🔗

Indeed

88589 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, 1, #968 of 1303 🔗

33. Once again.

88376 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Mark, 9, #969 of 1303 🔗

I am still not scared and not going to wear a mask

88380 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to JulieR, 11, #970 of 1303 🔗

Same here, I’m convinced that I have more chance of winning £3,200 on the lottery than bumping into a police officer who will actually issue a fine like that, and I don’t even play the lottery! Just not very scary, sorry Boris!

88403 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #971 of 1303 🔗

I haven’t seen a police car since April …..

88658 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #972 of 1303 🔗

They’re all down here in Bournemouth. I see lots of them every day driving around town. Often with sirens blaring. Add the helicopters flying over all the time and it gets to be a bit much (I live a short walk from the beach).

88479 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #973 of 1303 🔗

5 or 6 uniformed Police Officers came into the local cafe a couple of days ago, stood at the takeaway counter so they should have been wearing masks but then sat down so that’s all right then.

I might have overheard “Can I borrow the mask Sarge, need to go for a leak”
“Well be sharpish lad, Frank needs to go too”.

88548 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 3, #974 of 1303 🔗

I have almost daily (indoor – NHS building) contact with Plod. Neither they nor I mask up. They aren’t bothered.

89537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Tom Blackburn, #975 of 1303 🔗

It isn’t good enough that they aren’t bothered; they can still turn on us if they are sufficiently “butt-hurt”.

88411 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Mark, 4, #976 of 1303 🔗

fascist state being enacted!! I thought all the sheeple were compliant with the face masks so why increase the penalty??
Boris has to go pronto – where is the opposition to this draconian measures??

88419 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Sue, 3, #977 of 1303 🔗

Sadly 🙁 there is no viable opposition

89541 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Kath Andrews, #978 of 1303 🔗

Yes, the opposition are much worse!

88437 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Sue, 1, #979 of 1303 🔗

It hasn’t increased. It’s been like this for ages.

89535 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Mark, #980 of 1303 🔗

I will say this to all police, pcsos and all council gestapo. “Never forget. Never forgive.” I also say to the police, we will never forget the way you behaved towards us, the citizens who pay your wages, sifting through our shopping trolleys and the like.

88370 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to arfurmo, 13, #981 of 1303 🔗

I don’t believe anyone will be fined so much. I will continue not wearing a mask.
There was no risk assessment done by the government in regards to masks in public places.
If police want to fine me I will make it really public and will sue the government.

88420 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to JulieR, 7, #982 of 1303 🔗

Simply need to stay strong and stand by your exemption reason. Mine is ‘distress’ and that is as genuine as hell. Even seeing people wearing masks really disturbs me and I just know I can never wear one myself.

88435 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to JulieR, 1, #983 of 1303 🔗

Agree

88480 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JulieR, 2, #984 of 1303 🔗

Make sure to show no one your medical records, if so exempt, until it gets to Court which won’t be anytime soon as they have 5 month lockdown backlog to deal with first.

88387 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to arfurmo, 2, #985 of 1303 🔗

This is getting very worrying now.

88404 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, 1, #986 of 1303 🔗

It will be what you make of it.

88395 ▶▶ Paul M, replying to arfurmo, 13, #987 of 1303 🔗

Nah. I’ve not, but do keep an exemption card in my wallet just in case. As do others.

My anxiety levels are sky high, but I was just fine pre covid.

This is state terrorism of the uk population.

Our MPs are complicit for not having the guts to bring this farce to an end

88462 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Paul M, 3, #988 of 1303 🔗

“State terrorism” sounds dramatic but it’s a fair summation of fact: the State has been seeking to put the population at large into a state of terror.

88539 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 1, #989 of 1303 🔗

Seeking?They’ve done it.

88399 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 7, #990 of 1303 🔗

Bollox. According to the guidelines, everyone is exempt if they choose to be!

88313 Paul E, 18, #991 of 1303 🔗

However it’s clear there can sometimes be serious side effects to coronavirus infection, look at Boris, it’s clearly attacked his spine as he has become an invertebrate since!

88324 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #992 of 1303 🔗

Burnham dead yet?

88341 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #993 of 1303 🔗

Don’t we just wish

88358 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sam Vimes, #994 of 1303 🔗

What’s happened?

88392 ▶▶▶ Paul M, replying to Tenchy, 3, #995 of 1303 🔗

He’s still breathing and spouting his GM empire buiding nonsense.

He really does need to wind his neck in.

Thinks he’s invincible, but we ‘should’ be having elections next year – really hope a strong independent will rise up and wipe this ignoramous of the map.

I’m in Bury. I despise the man.

88335 smurfs, replying to smurfs, 7, #996 of 1303 🔗

Not suggesting this as a theme tune but it kind of sums up how I’m feeling at the moment – “I Won’t Back Down” by the late great Tom Petty

88353 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to smurfs, #997 of 1303 🔗
88336 Tom Blackburn, 2, #998 of 1303 🔗

Telly retuned / most non-BBC channels now out of service.

88350 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 16, #999 of 1303 🔗

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-bill-gates-covid-vaccine/?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-businessweek&utm_medium=social&utm_content=businessweek

From a Bill Gates interview Bloomberg News

“This is an age of science, but sometimes it doesn’t feel that way. In the test tube, hydroxychloroquine looked good. On the other hand, there are lots of good therapeutic drugs coming that are proven to work without the severe side effects.”

This is a complete nonsense “severe side effects”. Just shows the fraud. This man is completely ignorant that millions of people have been taken HCQ for many years without any serious side effects for malaria and autoimmune diseases. Naturally there are a few side effects but nothing which would exclude its use as an outpatient drug for C-19 in risk groups. This man has no medical knowledge about this. The whole setup of this man as expert about virus diseases is ludicrous. He’d better stick with computer viruses.

88359 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1000 of 1303 🔗

He was rubbish with them too

88362 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1001 of 1303 🔗

He’s a psychopath. Family ties to the eugenics movement, which explains a lot.

88432 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1002 of 1303 🔗

Like father, like son.

88423 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1003 of 1303 🔗

It’s amazing how these silicon valley and speculator types who claim to be scientific rationalists are driven by demons. Their most feared demon is the Trump Devil. They will say anything, do anything, as long as they feel the Trump Devil is being beaten back. For all their many billions of net worth they are truly pathetic. I do actually believe that Gates, Zuckerberg, Soros and the rest would prefer a million kids in Africa to die than Trump should win the Presidential election.

88430 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to swedenborg, #1004 of 1303 🔗

Bill Gates is a computer virus!

88446 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1005 of 1303 🔗

No Bill, Bill…… come on. This is an age of “THE Science”. Get it right mate.

88456 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1006 of 1303 🔗

The World Is Not Enough, starring Bill Gates as Kill Gates. You can’t fault these guys for persistence and motivation. Their worldwide takeover this year has been absolutely breathtaking, one of the most spectacular coups in recorded history.

88475 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to swedenborg, #1007 of 1303 🔗

One reason Africa was not the time bomb as predicted. Used against malaria for decades.

88511 ▶▶ Will, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1008 of 1303 🔗

My five year old was on hydroxychloroquine for just over a year and, aside from the horrible taste the side effects were negligible. Interesting that Gates does acknowledge that hydroxychloroquine does have a positive impact though.

88570 ▶▶ Basics, replying to swedenborg, #1009 of 1303 🔗

It is well known across Africa, likeUK adults might know of paracetamol or some other common udeful drug. In Nigeria at least the sale of HCQ was stopped about 2013 for no reason that i’m aware of. It was liked across the population as a reliable cure for malaria.

This info was told to me by a Nigerian friend.

88364 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1010 of 1303 🔗

Since lockdown “easing” is to continue again from Saturday, does that mean Boris has given up on the Second Wave, for now at least? Will he be begging us to go back to work and spend all our money again until a few more cases sends him into another panic and we come to an emergency stop? Any bets on how long we’ve got?

88367 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1011 of 1303 🔗

I’ve just read what the new ‘easing’ is, it amounts to basically nothing, as far as I can tell – plus he’s increased the muzzle fines and increased the amount of muzzle stuff workers need to wear.

88396 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, #1012 of 1303 🔗

Easing? Looking glass stuff again!

88472 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, #1013 of 1303 🔗

He’s going to free up bouncy castles, masked only, sanitised after each use.

88501 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Mark II, #1014 of 1303 🔗

Fines have not increased. Same as before. Check gov uk

88666 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lucky, #1015 of 1303 🔗

That’s what I thought, the fine structure hasn’t changed has it? Its’ still the same as it was before right?

88368 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, #1016 of 1303 🔗

Lockdown continues until 31st March 2025 according to the World Bank planning document I’ve seen circulating. Not sure if it’s legit, not been able to find the source link yet.

88374 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Richard O, #1017 of 1303 🔗

What? I hope that’s not real!

88375 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1018 of 1303 🔗

I first heard about it from Max Igan (The Crowhouse), and have seen it corroborated second hand from other sources. Not definitive yet. But it does jive with the BBC piece from last week about life in 2025 (“as weeks turned into months, and months turned into years”).

88379 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Richard O, 1, #1019 of 1303 🔗

Wouldn’t surprise me 🙁

88390 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to A. Contrarian, 11, #1020 of 1303 🔗

Considering the shitshow for unemployment heading into September I doubt he and all this will last. The wheels are starting to come off. Mask wearers are finding them impractical, uncomfortable and in the case of my OH, who wears them for her healthcare job, is allegic to certain types.

No risk assessment, no systematic assessment, just idiotic models.

The estimates are between 1 and 3 million unemployed and we have already hit over 700,000 since March.

Plus you are now being given £1000 for every employee you keep on for the months of Nov, Dec and Jan. You get the payment after Jan. The minimum salary those employees should earn is £520.

Which means you will be keeping people on just to prolong the agony.

88391 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to mhcp, 5, #1021 of 1303 🔗

Johnson will be put out to pasture when the time is right. For now he is serving his masters very well indeed. Sadly, absent a genuine popular rebellion, the alternatives in the current political landscape are all equally bad or even worse.

88397 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mhcp, 3, #1022 of 1303 🔗

We had 4m unemployed in the 80s and we never recovered socially.
The number 6m has already been bandied about and I suspect this is conservative.

88425 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1023 of 1303 🔗

Indeed. The right to work and contribute to your society is a basic human right. The Lockdown Lunatics are taking us to a very dark place.

88474 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mhcp, 2, #1024 of 1303 🔗

700,000 is just the formerly employed, there are also +/- 250,000 no longer self-employed.

88366 swedenborg, 3, #1025 of 1303 🔗

Hard lockdown versus smart closure two neighbouring countries Argentina Uruguay
Compare deaths per million rolling 7-day average

https://twitter.com/ChGefaell/status/1293921630167728128/photo/1

88372 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 5, #1026 of 1303 🔗

Worth posting widely as well if somene can post the graphic:
https://www.lockdowntruth.org/post/scotland-s-second-wave

88398 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1027 of 1303 🔗

Awesome!

88426 Lucky, replying to Lucky, 1, #1028 of 1303 🔗

Latest (13th August) gov uk face covering ‘rules’ – ha ha – especially How to Wear a Face Covering (“ if a thing’s worth doing it’s worth doing well…. .”.) ha ha… as if…

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

88534 ▶▶ annie, replying to Lucky, 5, #1029 of 1303 🔗

Nice touch:

“Emerging evidence suggests that the risk of transmission may be reduced by using thicker fabrics or multiple layers. However, the face covering should still be breathable.”

If they hadn’t added that, sheeples would be dropping dead in every street!

88536 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to annie, 4, #1030 of 1303 🔗

Is this another example of gaslighting? How can you 1) increase the layers/thickness of fabrics and 2) breathe?

88428 assoc, replying to assoc, 10, #1031 of 1303 🔗

The fact remains that, almost uniquely, one cannot recover from Covid in England.
Many of the people who died within 28 days of testing were terminally ill – but they all go down as Covid deaths, even if they were hit by a bus.

88467 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to assoc, 1, #1032 of 1303 🔗

Ancient history

88481 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Lucky, #1033 of 1303 🔗

Read the news – any news

88514 ▶▶ Will, replying to assoc, 1, #1034 of 1303 🔗

How someone who dies in a hospice can be registered as a covid death is beyond comprehension. I very much doubt such a scenario wouldn’t arise in Denmark or Germany hence their lower Covid “death” rates.

88436 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 10, #1035 of 1303 🔗

There is huge disparity in mask wearing between local shops and big supermarkets. I experienced this today. Busy village store, only maybe 10% wearing masks (there was a long queue and I was able to observe how many donned masks). But when I was in the big supermarket mask wearers were probably 98%. I think a lot of this is down to perceived risk of Police intervention. People are rightly perceiving the risk of police intervention in their local shop as being close to zero.

88440 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to OKUK, 6, #1036 of 1303 🔗

They should be perceiving the likelihood of police intervention in any shop as close to zero if all they are doing is shopping.

88458 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lucky, 3, #1037 of 1303 🔗

It’s the wisdom of crowds. They have correctly assessed that confrontation and police intervention is much more likely to occur in big supermarkets.

88465 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to OKUK, 1, #1038 of 1303 🔗

Sorry I live in the UK (or is it England now?) Where do you live?

88522 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lucky, 1, #1039 of 1303 🔗

Has there been any police intervention?

88443 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, 3, #1040 of 1303 🔗

Yup. Stay local, be a yokel, don’t get badgered by rozzers or Karens. Everybody wins.

88453 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Farinances, 8, #1041 of 1303 🔗

I’ve moved from wearing a mask as chinstrap in supermarkets to going totally maskless.

Haven’t had any hassle so far and the feeling of freedom is nice.

I have a sense that while many of the Masked would cheerfully like to strangle me, they are now much more aware of the exemption category and fear being accused of persecuting a disabled person. So they refrain from comment. It’s good to know so many people who hate free speech are dying to say something but fear the consequences.

Of course only a matter of time before the government introduce a scheme of medical certification for exemptions. They will of course try to reduce the number of exempt people.

88526 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 5, #1042 of 1303 🔗

Doctors won’t see you, they’ll have to ‘examine’ you online, how the hell will they know if you have a hidden disability or not? What if it’s a psychological problem?

88563 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to annie, 3, #1043 of 1303 🔗

stick underpants on your head, pencils up your nose and say wibble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2DCExerOsA

88444 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 7, #1044 of 1303 🔗

Any ideas on strategies for when it’s made mandatory everywhere? Since 23rd July I have only left my flat to go outside and smoke a cigarette. Amazingly in Victoria State Kim Jong Dan has exempted smokers from wearing a mask whilst they are smoking.

What a life!

88447 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 2, #1045 of 1303 🔗

Presumably there are exemptions and the likelihood is they have to be quite broad. Check where you fit in as an exemption.

88451 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 9, #1046 of 1303 🔗

If I’m ever challenged mine will always be “severe distress”. Which is actually true, I feel physically sick and psychologically disturbed every time I see someone shuffling towards me wearing one.

88457 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 4, #1047 of 1303 🔗

Same here – totally genuine. And when I had to try one for family reasons I found it unbearable.

88459 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 5, #1048 of 1303 🔗

I’ve managed to avoid it altogether thusfar. And I’ve not once used hand sanitiser, had my temperature taken with a laser gun or been poked with the deep brain probe yet.

88565 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to OKUK, 1, #1049 of 1303 🔗

same with me. the only time i have worn a mask was at my barbers the day after they were allowed to open and only to mollify him as he was worried about the mask gestapo. I still keep it in my pocket. And i found that suffocating . Hence i also use the distress exemption and tell anyone that will listen that i will not wear a mask and explain why.

88463 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Richard O, 5, #1050 of 1303 🔗

I feel exactly the same way. I have to go back to the city tomorrow for a week and I’m dreading it. As soon as we drive in and I see the maskholes wearing them outdoors I feel my anxiety level go way up. Since my last trip back the city has mandated them inside condo buildings, but this is where I draw the line. I will not wear one to go in and out of my building. As I’ve mentioned the compliance rate in Toronto is 150% (100% indoors as mandated and another huge number of idiots wearing them outside where they are not “yet” mandated) so I will get huge push back. People claiming exemptions here have been refused service and I’m not sure I want to get into a pissing match given my husband is willing to do all the food shopping. I’ll wear my protest mask (the one I wrote PLACEBO on) for the few errands I have to do myself. I feel physically ill the second I put that dam thing on my face but can handle it for very short bursts. On the plus side, I’ll be eating on a patio with my best friend who I haven’t seen for 7 months and visiting my parents who are normal. Once the children are moved I will be relieved to head back to my 60 acres in the country.

88470 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #1051 of 1303 🔗

Any ideas on why North America has been the global epicentre of the mask madness? I have a few theories:

  1. You have experienced greater peace and prosperity for a longer period of time than anywhere else in the world. This is the first time a society-wide “crisis” has been experienced for generations, and gullible citizens are thrilled to get the chance to participate in something greater that transcends their individual affairs.
  2. This is WW3, but not as we expected it to be. The arena of combat is primarily psychological, and the ultimate aim is to take down the West in general and the USA in particular to end its global hegemony once and for all.
88498 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Richard O, 2, #1052 of 1303 🔗

I agree with you 100%. Your first point boils down to “we’re soft.” Yes, we have not had the same kinds of existential threats as former generations and so we don’t have any backbone. There’s also the culture of “saftey-ism” the explains the fear and compliance of the younger generations. A Canada-specific point is this: we pride ourselves on not being America and so we’re all full of ourselves at how much better we’ve done “containing” the virus. Of course in the US there are far more people pushing back against the mask mandates, but the political polarization there has made mask wearing a Democrat vs. Republican issue. Here in Canada there’s a “we’re all in this together” ethos and those of us who aren’t buying it are labeled knuckle dragging, grandma killing, Trump supporters (I despise the man). I’m fully expecting a Melbourne-style hard lockdown here in the fall or winter, unfortunately.

88503 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #1053 of 1303 🔗

I’m still struggling to get my head around Melbourne as the gold standard of Covid fascism. This is the city of “Neighbours, everybody needs good neighbours, with a little understanding, you can find the perfect blend….”.

From what I’ve heard from friends in the USA, the Blue States are 100% mask fanatics. Only Iowa and South Dakota have not mandated them state wide.

Health and Safety was the Trojan Horse that we allowed to infect our culture over decades. What we are currently bearing witness to is its apotheosis. As a smoker I have been going out of my way for years to warn people that the incremental elimination of smoking from public life since the mid-1990s was a social engineering experiment whose methods would eventually be rolled out to the whole society. I had no idea that it would be global in scope and implemented in less than 6 months.

88516 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1054 of 1303 🔗

Take away Communist run NE USA and statistically USA has done better than Canada. Give me Trump over your boy every day and our buffoon.

88532 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to nottingham69, #1055 of 1303 🔗

But Trump is pro-mask,isn’t he? Or have I missed something?

88584 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 2, #1056 of 1303 🔗

He’s moved to being lukewarm pro-mask, but started out being ambivalent/anti. His early statements amounted to “apparently you should think about wearing a mask. Can’t see me doing it, personally”. This fed the politicization of the bloody things, with the mask/no mask debate becoming a neat way of signalling anti/pro Trump preferences. If Trump thinks it’s a bad idea it must be good… etc. As usual, this then bleeds into UK herdthink for no obvious reason.

88610 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #1057 of 1303 🔗

And note that our “Conservative” Party leadership is firmly on the Democrat side of the issue. Not openly in support of the Democrats obviously but not purely coincidentally, either.

88500 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard O, 1, #1058 of 1303 🔗

They think it gives them ‘agency’s over the Covid.

88533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Richard O, 2, #1059 of 1303 🔗

I don’t know about 1, but as to 2, the USA part of North America has been fading for years. As a relatively privileged American, I started see real slippage by 2000, although cracks were visible before that.

It was largely self-inflicted as corporations moved manufacturing abroad from the 80s on, a movement that the population (unintentionally) encouraged by eagerly buying the cheaper products. By 2000, it was a real struggle to find any every day consumer goods manufactured in the US anymore, despite searching for them. I found it ironic that little American flags that you could buy in shops were made in Vietnam.

The population became increasingly economically insecure as incomes slid relative to inflation. More and more people working two or more part-time jobs. In 2008-9, the extent of corruption in the economy became pretty obvious.

The US is using more and more of its resources in a vain attempt to hold on to its empire abroad and control its people domestically. The virus is just the coup de grace; the collapse has been baked in the cake for a while.

88966 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ConstantBees, #1060 of 1303 🔗

I found it ironic that little American flags that you could buy in shops were made in Vietnam.

They do like their psy-ops …

88568 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Richard O, #1061 of 1303 🔗

i think USA particularly is far more polarised than most countries. Because there is still a very “right wing” (for want of a better term) population, a very woke liberal culture has developed in the cities since the 60s and it is these who have taken up the covid crusade

88594 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, 1, #1062 of 1303 🔗

Yes, the woke-ists are similar in both countries, the real difference is that in the US they still have genuinely more or less conservative powerbases and therefore some genuinely conservative politics still, even at the national level.

That ceased to be the case in this country decades ago, or at the latest perhaps with the Cameron regime as Hitchens suggests.

We are politically like a US NE state that is a Democrat stronghold, where the arguments are between moderate left Democrats and hard left Democrats, only here they are split between “Labour” and “Conservative” parties. It’s very noticeable that modern “Conservative” Party leaders are much more comfortable with Democrat politicians than with Republicans, generally, though obviously they have to work with the latter as well.

88765 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Mark, #1063 of 1303 🔗

I remember someone pointing out that the only reason the US appears more Right-leaning than UK is that they have a much higher proportion of rural vs urban dwellers. And of course all those rural states get equal representation in a federal system.

A federal UK doesn’t solve that for anyone sitting in upland England, Highland Scotland or North Wales.

88499 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1064 of 1303 🔗

Maskholes LOL

88531 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1065 of 1303 🔗

Yes, it’s such a relief to get a dose of Nature!

88529 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 1, #1066 of 1303 🔗

Ditto me. Makes me heave.
Went to buy a new super-primitive mobile. Confronted by a ghastly nappied numpty in black mask. Said sorry, I couldn’t look at him while he was noseless or hear him while he was mouthless.
He disappeared up the back passage, and reappeared a minute later maskless. Nice-looking chap snd knew it. Had a beard.

88558 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, 1, #1067 of 1303 🔗

Was that his own back passage?

88656 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, #1068 of 1303 🔗

Me2

88468 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Richard O, #1069 of 1303 🔗

He needs the tax, as always.
My Sri Lankan local store owner tells me tobacco and alcohol tax are that countries 2 largest sources of revenue even more so now with no tourism.

88466 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, #1070 of 1303 🔗

Same here almost since day one, hopefully some mask averse shoppers might notice and give the independents their custom in future.

88484 richard riewer, 1, #1071 of 1303 🔗

‘Kill Bill’.

88494 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1072 of 1303 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyE9cJ0w1hk
Dr Vernon Coleman latest video talk on vaccines.

88495 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to richard riewer, 4, #1073 of 1303 🔗

“Thank you for watching an old man in a chair”. National hero.

88502 karenovirus, 1, #1074 of 1303 🔗

One of our Premier Inns shows signs of life, some new sun umbrellas in the patio area.
I’ll try it for breakfast this morning if it’s not too covidphobic. Unlike most this one was never self service because of the nature of the building.
Another one is having extensive building work, perhaps restructuring the building to be likewise.

88504 richard riewer, 2, #1075 of 1303 🔗

More Dr. Vernon Coleman. On Zombies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2PdP_vD-wc

88508 Eddie, replying to Eddie, #1076 of 1303 🔗

I’ll take new cases for a thousand please Alex

88509 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Eddie, #1077 of 1303 🔗

Not quite 1000 it seems

88510 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Eddie, #1078 of 1303 🔗

There that’s done it

88512 Will, replying to Will, 5, #1079 of 1303 🔗

This is on the BBC!!!!

Fewer hospital patients in Covid-19 hotspots https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772459

88513 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Will, 4, #1080 of 1303 🔗

And are we surprised except that it’s the BBC ? someone’s going to get a bollocking.

88527 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1081 of 1303 🔗

Heartening that they are, at long last, giving a modicum of publicity to a vaguely positive narrative. There is a link in the article to another one which cites Heneghan, now if we could just get Sunetra Gupta into the mainstream…

88560 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1082 of 1303 🔗

Good grief .. next they will be saying that this hot weather is because it is summer and that voting brexit does not make you a racist …

88515 Panda, 4, #1083 of 1303 🔗

We’re going to South of France on holiday next month, the ridiculous bed-wetting UK government quarantine won’t be stopping us. Just trying to find ways to undermine and subvert this farcical situation. Does anyone know if driving across the border (via ferry) is still considered a ‘voluntary quarantine’ by the French authorities? Does anyone know if they are they even checking? I doubt border force even have enough staff to check everybody coming back into the country in any case, but does anyone actually have any first hand experience?

88517 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 4, #1084 of 1303 🔗

Just found out about this article in USA Today: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/06/stop-coronavirus-compulsory-universal-vaccination-column/3289948001/

I don’t know how influential these two doctors are, but if “coronavirus” vaccines are made compulsory in the US, it will most likely start a civil war.

88518 ▶▶ Will, replying to ConstantBees, 6, #1085 of 1303 🔗

I think it would in the UK as well. Anybody who would vaccinate their child with a vaccine that has been developed this quickly would need their heads examined and I am not anti vaccine by any stretch of the imagination. Can’t see Johnson’s current mistress allowing her child to be vaccinated.

88520 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Will, 3, #1086 of 1303 🔗

I was thinking of the fact that probably half of the US population is armed. In recent years, even more liberal people have been arming themselves. When I lived in Indiana not too long ago, one of my work colleagues, a mild-mannered older woman, told me that she was armed, which did surprise me.

88903 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ConstantBees, #1087 of 1303 🔗

Rationally, older women have a greater need to tool up than younger men.

88544 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Will, 3, #1088 of 1303 🔗

You do have to give permission for in-school vax at moment. I’m not anti vax but agree I don’t like the idea of vax with short devt. I’m against un-necessary Vax.

Flu doesn’t seem worth it to me. They can only capture 30% or so of strains.

Not sure what to do if they take away services if un vaccinated.

88519 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #1089 of 1303 🔗

Compulsory medication is outlawed by something from the UN, can’t remember any details.

88521 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1090 of 1303 🔗

Every human rights convention.
But do are all the other freedoms ripped away by lockdown.

88524 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to annie, 1, #1091 of 1303 🔗

The militarization of the police in America pre-dated the lockdowns.

88528 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, #1092 of 1303 🔗

They get first dabs when the actual military offload surplus kit.

88535 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1093 of 1303 🔗

Absolutely! I was shocked when I first started seeing them using said kit. Happily I witnessed it on video, and not in-person. I stay as far away from American cops as possible. Friends of mine had dangerous run-ins with psychotic police many years ago. I hate to think what they’re like now, especially with psychological “training” to help them use this equipment on their own fellow citizens.

88523 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1094 of 1303 🔗

Human rights are not an issue in the US. The increasing militarization of the police and the extreme assaults on people there by the police would overrule any human rights laws from outside the country.

As a native-born American (I live in the UK now), I can tell you that Americans do not believe that any restrictions can be placed on the US by outside bodies.

88542 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 23, #1096 of 1303 🔗

He’s gone stark raving bonkers.

That was my first reaction on seeing the news flash up on my i-pad this morning about Boris doubling the fines for REPEATEDLY not wearing a mask-interesting to see how that will be policed-will we each have our own mask monitor?

I calmed down once I’d scrolled through the comments and found the one from Lucky with a link to the government website:

“Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.

Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a HOME MADE SIGN. ( My emphasis)

This is a personal choice and IS NOT NECESSARY IN LAW.”

A sort of Carte Blanche then?

I‘ve been saying this from the moment that masks were introduced. The government don’t really want you to wear a face covering otherwise why make it so easy to not comply?

Face masks are nappies for covering the government’s arse.

88543 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 14, #1097 of 1303 🔗

Its basically doubling the fear to make people comply and not bother to know their rights. Its appalling and shocking how many companies, institutions and people who don’t even bother to check the exemptions.

88545 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #1098 of 1303 🔗

And even if they did, so many are authority fearing. My husband complies. He was bought up in a strict authority fearing manner. He is very risk averse!

88572 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #1099 of 1303 🔗

Even Mr Bart is who is a sceptic wears the muzzle on public transport as he’s afraid of being fined and thinks that both of us couldn’t be exempt. I did ask him what about a couple with both asthma? Or one who has COPD and another with PTSD? Or what about someone who is hearing impaired and another who has to translate?

88607 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1100 of 1303 🔗

That’s the problem, we are being ruled by fear and ignorance. OH has a lanyard and I have a badge. We “claim” exemption for different reasons. No-one has ever questioned us, nor will they. May I be allowed to grant Mr Bart his exemption please?

88613 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1101 of 1303 🔗

Eh? Both my other half and I are medically exempt and we do not wear masks. Even if we didn’t have conditions we would both exempt ourselves on the grounds of distress which is actually genuine. Mr Bart doesn’t need to risk a fine. Download and print a card from the government website, it doesn’t give any reason, ‘just says you’re exempt.

88747 ▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Bart Simpson, #1102 of 1303 🔗

Isn’t the fine for refusing to wear rather than not wearing one? Which makes me wonder if the worst thing would be having to politely say “sorry I forgot” through gritted teeth…

88580 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1103 of 1303 🔗

Agreed. Surely the first thing you would think is “What?? How do I get out of this shit?”

88549 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 7, #1104 of 1303 🔗

If you read this contemptible document, don’t forget to send them some feedback. Space at end of the page.

88552 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, 1, #1105 of 1303 🔗

What age is reason not to comply ?

88554 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1106 of 1303 🔗

Under 11 I think… For now. in the good old US of A I think it’s only under 3s

88553 ▶▶ Will, replying to Margaret, 5, #1107 of 1303 🔗

There are two reasons for face masks, firstly so the government can signal its virtue to the bed setters, not that it will actually win them any votes. And secondly so it can claim credit for “beating” a second wave when nature has already done the job and the virus has disappeared. As for the bacterial infections, sickness, diarrhoea etc that is going to spread as a result of everyone touching their putrid mask covered faces all the time? Collateral damage….

88555 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Will, 8, #1108 of 1303 🔗

At the moment tho the increase in cases in France and the UK (not that it matters, as we all know here) happen to correlate very nicely with the introduction of mask mandates 😂

Obviously their solution to it is more masks

88569 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Mark II, 5, #1109 of 1303 🔗

I don’t think masks actually increase (or indeed decrease) the spread. What they can do, however, is increase the viral load – someone carrying the virus is forced to reinhale rather than emit the virus – which can turn a minor infection into a major one (source: https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/369/bmj.m2003.full.pdf )

88590 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #1110 of 1303 🔗

Did you notice the name of one of the contributors to this was Susan Michie, Professor of Health Psychology? We all know about Susan, don’t we?

88597 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Margaret, 1, #1111 of 1303 🔗

That one’s passed me by. What should I know?

88622 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Andrew Fish, #1112 of 1303 🔗

She is what was once termed a ‘tankie’, a long-term hardline Stalinist. I don’t use the term lightly or metaphorically when she I say she is evil.

Health Psychology is brain washing, for your own good of course (vomit)

88804 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Strange Days, 1, #1113 of 1303 🔗

I noticed she’s a psychologist rather than a virologist, so I suspect she’s not responsible for the part of the paper about viral load. Worrying, though, how many of these extremists seem to be in positions of influence. Probably explains why Government policy over this outbreak seems to be designed to do as much damage to society and economy as possible.

88562 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Margaret, 11, #1114 of 1303 🔗

The mandatory wearing of masks is a political decision as Deborah Cohen stated. The political pressure comes from the US and the CDC ( a highly partisan body now focussed on the November election ) . Biden has called for the wearing of masks everywhere in the US outside the home. Expect the pressure to increase in all western countries.

88618 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Margaret, 12, #1115 of 1303 🔗

I am quite sure that what they want is to demonstrate that they have total control of the population. The extraordinary compliance with the mask mandates shows them that they are achieving it. I do not believe they care anything for covering their arses. The stakes are much bigger than that.

Notice how they are upping the ante, bit by bit. Local lock-downs which are not getting lifted, more cruel and irrational mandates e.g. masks as well as visors for hairdressers, masks on children, huge fines for ‘illegal’ gatherings (protests?) We are now in a police state and those wearing masks demonstrate that have been brainwashed into welcoming it for their ‘safety’.

88651 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #1116 of 1303 🔗

WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO SEE THIS AND STOP COMPLYING FFS ?????????

88680 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1117 of 1303 🔗

A little walk round the block (I am doing far more of those at the moment just to get out of the house). A family and young kid on the way to our local Tesco. Adults not wearing masks (presumably that will be later) but 9 year oldish son had one on and clearly proud of it. One of these days I am going to stop one of these little lads, ask him his age, and say ‘you can have one of these exemption cards as well’. Totally nuts.

88833 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to davews, 1, #1118 of 1303 🔗

Careful now, davews. I always feel an urge to speak to parents of masked children, but have controlled this.

People get quite intense when their ‘parenting abilities’ are called into question in any way.

88649 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Margaret, 1, #1119 of 1303 🔗

AT LEAST the bastards haven’t removed the exemption and they have made them clearer and extended them to include wearing a home made badge and not having to provide written evidence.

88830 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, 2, #1120 of 1303 🔗

Face masks are nappies for covering the government’s arse.

They’re a compliance indicator.

88547 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 8, #1121 of 1303 🔗

More craziness from Sturgeon-land, where the dementedly fearful wear gags in the open air and then discard them on pavements!!:

a friend rang yesterday to suggest a visit to a nearby beauty spot,where we could walk and enjoy the countryside.

One snag: the other friend-a lockdown adherent-had qualms about 3 people travelling in the first friend’s car!!!

Back to the drawing board: how will the frightened one deal with the trade offs?

Enjoyable trip with 2 pals, neither of whom are lethal plague carriers, or choose the safer option.

I’m now having great difficulties in controlling my exasperation.

88556 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wendyk, 5, #1122 of 1303 🔗

Leave the bedwetter at home. How do you like those apples?

88577 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1123 of 1303 🔗

Yep, tell them you are going and they can come or not. As a bonus, they will be able to see afterwards that you are still alive, and they are still foolish.

88564 ▶▶ Mark, replying to wendyk, 3, #1124 of 1303 🔗

[Edit, clearly I misunderstood your comment, so this reply does’t apply here. Doh! That’s what I get for commenting first thing, pre-coffee. Imagine if you will that you had written that your friend was insisting, say , that you wear masks or travel in different cars….]

 It’s a genuinely tricky one if they can’t be persuaded. In the past I’ve always been tolerant and flexible on political issues in the personal contact sphere, disliking campaigning “cancel culture” type zealots, who are almost always of the left. I’ve lost lots of contacts, social and otherwise, during my life, over politics, but it has always come from them, not from me. I’ve taken the view that personal contact is far more important than mere politics.

Over this, I’ve for the first time in my life taken the other view. I believe that conforming to coronapanic theatre is so damaging in itself – every person who conforms to these literally stupid measures or gives them any credence reinforces the fear that is both the root and the main active mechanism in the disaster we are living through – that it’s important enough to take some stands even in personal life.The last issue as direct and important as the coronapanic, imo, was the Iraq War, and I didn’t do this even for that. In that case, people who backed it were wrong, clearly, but their individual actions made little difference to what the US and British governments were going to do.

Certainly I can understand the counter argument – I’ve always been very irritated by priggish lefties who make little personal stands on issues that are both controversial and so big anyway that individual actions make no effective difference. But this case is different imo – it’s a direct political issue where our actions are immediately relevant.

So in that case in our shoes I would decline to make alternative arrangements that pander to the patently false idea that there is any meaningful risk in travelling together.

But it’s obviously a decision only you can make for yourself. Every case of this kind is individual, both from person to person and case to case.

88643 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark, 2, #1125 of 1303 🔗

The brainwashed fools who believe all the Corona bullshit are DANGEROUS.

88573 ▶▶ NickR, replying to wendyk, 3, #1126 of 1303 🔗

Put them in the boot?

88631 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to NickR, 1, #1127 of 1303 🔗

Like it! And thanks to all for suggestions.

88787 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to wendyk, 2, #1128 of 1303 🔗

They could stick their head out of the car window, doggy style?

88841 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to A. Contrarian, #1129 of 1303 🔗

A good one, but the pesky pathogens might be airborne! All that fresh air streaming past might be deadly!

88550 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #1130 of 1303 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYTuPbZwMOM

We are all now just passengers on the who, eu, westminster, hollyrood, public sector gravy train…..which will lead, eventually, if unchecked, to queues, ration cards, (more) ‘special status’ perks for senior public officials and so on…….and that could be by the end of the year if another ‘lethal’ (for real or from another China, via who, induced panic) virus turns up.

You Westerners don’t understand us at all. You can’t use terms like ‘upper class’ and ‘middle class’ here. Everything depends on the status of the organization that appoints you. The Academy of Sciences nomenklaturam are good, but the party’s is better.’

Dr. Alexander Zinoviev, author, mathematician, 1981.

He may have been correct, but we seem to be getting the hang of it surprisingly quickly….

88551 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #1131 of 1303 🔗

On the Soviet system, I recommend ‘Black Sun’ by Owen Matthews. The author has part Russian ancestry and has a home in Moscow.

He’s written a number of books about Russia and its various incarnations.

88557 Ovis, replying to Ovis, 19, #1132 of 1303 🔗

Why double down on compliance rags? Because they’ve just been humiliated (a bit) on the death stats. The priority here, indeed the sole government objective now, is to show us all who’s lord mayor and stop the proles from getting uppish.

88574 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ovis, 6, #1133 of 1303 🔗

Well, it was always about control, for sure.

88586 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Ovis, 6, #1134 of 1303 🔗

How many fines have been issued? What about the exemptions? I actually think this is meaningless drivel. De Pfeffel at his most piffling. Fiddling whilst Rome burns.

88559 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 30, #1135 of 1303 🔗

Sorry, it’s me again.

OK so what would YOU have done if you were Boris?

I was asked this question yesterday in the middle of a heated pub debate with someone who was defending him.

These were my answers:

  1. I wouldn’t have let Neil Ferguson within a million miles of me following his disastrous Mystic Meg predictions of previous years. ( Like many people, the guy with whom I was arguing didn’t know anything about Prof. Pantsdown)
  2. I would have asked for a broader range of opinions than those presented to me: Michael Levitt for example, who said way back in March that Ferguson had been out in his predictions to the power of 10 or 12, or John Ioannadis who described this as “a fiasco in the making.” Both have been proved to be correct.
  3. I would have looked at the Chinese data released in February which showed the age profile of 80,000 people who had died with Covid or the Italian data in March and would have ascertained that this virus affected predominantly older, more vulnerable people, so I would have made their protection my priority instead of killing them.
  4. I would have looked at the data coming from the floating Petri dish, the Diamond Princess, on which I have actually travelled (ironically around Australia and New Zealand) to ascertain the rate of infection and the lethality.
  5. I wouldn’t have shut schools since it was known early on that children were unlikely to be affected badly.
  6. I would have looked at the political leanings of the members of SAGE and wondered if they had the country’s best interests at heart.
  7. I may well have given the NHS three weeks to prepare for a possible run on its resources but then opened everything up again.
  8. I would not have told the country that it was three weeks to flatten the sombrero then moved the goalposts so that five tests (remember those?) needed to be satisfied before lockdown was eased.
  9. ?
  10. ?

Anyone want to add more?

88566 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Margaret, 11, #1136 of 1303 🔗

I would have regarded and treated people as grown-ups.

I would have ignored the mainstream media.

I would not have left Hancock in post – as a non-entity, he would have proved inept even in normal times. He’s been utterly floundering in all this.

I’d have made a cup of tea and sat back for a bit. And read some history.

88567 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 8, #1137 of 1303 🔗

Oh, and I’ve have read Mackay’s Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds .

88575 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Margaret, 6, #1138 of 1303 🔗

I would not have produced tons of conflicting guidance making businesses attempt to convert their premises into fortresses against an undetectable microscopic foe (aka Covid Secure)

I would not have introduced the insidious concept that individuals going about their normal business are now responsible for anyone else’s health

88579 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Fed up, 8, #1139 of 1303 🔗

And of course face masks would have been actively discouraged

88578 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Margaret, 11, #1140 of 1303 🔗

I would have gone full on Churchillian, and insisted on keeping societal respect focused on those who deserve it – those who keep calm and carry on in the face of difficulties such as a new kind of cold, and attacked head on those who foolishly think it’s “selfish” to try to keep things running for everyone’s benefit. That would have been the genuinely conservative and trad British approach. I would have implicitly believed that ultimately if I took that stand enough of the people would back me to push through, and also that if not then it was my duty to try and to go down fighting, if necessary, against the cowards who would surrender to panic.

I would also have carried out an immediate purge of any cabinet members and advisers likely to weasel in the face of the fight to come (not against the disease, but against those who would panic in the face of it) – probably Cummings for a start, given the rumours of his obsessive personal issue with this disease, and turned the propaganda and behavioural manipulation resources.at the government’s disposal to generating fortitude in the face of this disease.

Given all that I see no reason why we could not have come out as well as Sweden did, and Johnson could have achieved his dream (of which he proved pathetically unworthy) of being a great leader of his country.

88600 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Mark, 6, #1141 of 1303 🔗

Made HCQ available to Health professionals and ten to the general public.

89395 ▶▶▶ Newmill Mark, replying to Mark, 1, #1142 of 1303 🔗

When, eventually, the hysteria dies down and the people wake up and survey the wreckage I think Boris will be seen as a tragic figure, as well as a clown.  Despite his obvious and plentiful flaws he had an unlikely but clear opportunity to act like his beloved Churchill – he could have followed his first, correct, instinct to “be like Sweden” and emerge as a hero who took a decision that was unpopular with the masses (remember appeasement was the clear will of the country at the time) but completely vindicated by events.  But as we know that requires character, strength of will and any number of other qualities that the despicable charlatan lacks.

88588 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Margaret, 10, #1143 of 1303 🔗

Told Archbishop of Canterbury he’d be sacked if he closed churches.

Admit the mistakes (even at this late stage) rather than trying to bluff a way out.

88598 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Margaret, 12, #1144 of 1303 🔗

I would have called in the various devolved head honchos and made the argument that this should have been dealt with as a public health matter with a unified approach for the entire UK.

Instead we have the endless divisive point scoring, border area shenanigans and the rise of the SNP.

The mask recommendations should have been made voluntary.

Refusal to wear a mask should never, never have been subject to imposition of fines.

Essential health services like dentistry, optometry, chiropody, podiatry and others should not have been shut down for so long, nor in such a draconian and inconsistent manner.

The over reliance on emotional incontinence and virtue signalling, which led to the inane cultish celebration of ‘our NHS’ should never have been introduced and encouraged.

I would have invited a delegation from Sweden to Westminster for an open discussion of the merits of the Swedish strategy.

Conquering of endemic mass hysteria by public and frequent, acknowledgement of the vital role played by the many poorly paid workers who have not fallen ill,despite prolonged and necessary contact with the public: care assistants, shop staff, delivery drivers,security guards, postal workers etc.

Universities should not have closed.

88742 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to wendyk, 2, #1145 of 1303 🔗

Agreed. Should have made it clear that any crisis big enough to get the military involved is clearly not a devolved issue. Holyrood effectively had control of part of the UK Armed Forces (maybe they still do?) Extraordinary when you think about it.

88617 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Margaret, 7, #1146 of 1303 🔗

I would not have released daily ‘death’ figures or published the day of registration chart. Figures yes, but in a non alarmist format that clearly showed that most deaths were with not of.
I would not have allowed doctors to put Covid on a death certificate without good reason

88642 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Margaret, #1147 of 1303 🔗

And what’s great about your list is that nothing on it required hindsight

88808 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to stewart, 1, #1148 of 1303 🔗

Thanks Stewart, I didn’t want to be accused of being wise after the event.

88661 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Margaret, #1149 of 1303 🔗

What has happened to the Five Tests and the traffic lights?

88677 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Margaret, 2, #1150 of 1303 🔗

I would have done a complete 360 analysis of the impact of lockdown scenarios based on time and severity – evaluate impact on economy, jobs, health, psychological, society etc to determine whether the disease justified the lockdown impacts. We’re finding now that it doesn’t!

I’d get a range of different scientific views not rely on a dodgy Ferguson whose track record was blemished to say the least. In fact exclude him altogether. Also understand their bias/political leaning as would influence the recommendations.

I’d not release the older folks from hospital direct into care homes – stupid when they knew they were vulnerable. I’d have ensured the care homes/older were properly shielded.
I’d have kept the health service open for the priority cases and segregated virus patients in separate virus centres

I’d have shut travel from most affected areas Wuhan/China, Milan etc

I’d have ensured correct statistical analysis which was accurate and correct, and consistent.

I’d have been honest and transparent with the people – those daily briefings were evidence that they hadn’t got a clue and excruciating to watch them flounder and bullshit “save the nhs” and “follow the science” nonsense. I’d have got a decent spokesperson who at least sounded credible!!

88561 Basics, 2, #1151 of 1303 🔗

380 million doses of corona vaccine have been purchased by UK gov for the UK. 6 vaccine types. One of the vaccines is being produced in UK.

Population 70 million 50% of whom have said no to your untested dangerous vaccine.

All of us are paying for a long tome for this.

In USA on vaccine msnufacturee that has been funded by US Gov money has announced it will charge $3000 a course of Covid19 vaccine treatment. The vaccine was developed by a private company with state money
https://mobile.twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1291091194827726848

88571 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 18, #1152 of 1303 🔗

Hello, I’m your handy Translato-bot:

“The best available scientific evidence [ we found someone who will say what we want ] is that, when used correctly [ you don’t know how to do this ] , wearing a face covering may [ hardly scientific ] reduce the spread of coronavirus droplets in certain circumstances [it’s just about possible, but unlikely in the real world ], helping to protect others [ we know you will think it’s a gas mask ].”

88603 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1153 of 1303 🔗

I saw that and quoted it on the NHS Facebook page. I just don’t know how people can be so ignorant as to think face masks actually do any good, and when I say ignorant i don’t mean that in an insulting way, just that I wonder how they can not have understood that they really don’t do much at all, if anything.

88582 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #1154 of 1303 🔗

£10k ‘on the spot fine’ for illegal gatherings. Is that proportionate? Police by consent is over if it ever was. Shown with illegal raves in mind but oh oh it also will apply to any future protest.

88602 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 7, #1155 of 1303 🔗

Sounds like pre-emptory move against possible civil unrest.

88818 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1156 of 1303 🔗

Unlikely the thought of a fine will deter anyone planning on riot, arson, looting, or destruction.

88604 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Basics, 2, #1157 of 1303 🔗

All done through Statutory Instruments I presume?

88583 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1158 of 1303 🔗

This will be the pattern everywhere in Europe. Localize and delegate. Pin the blame on local authority instead of the national government which has ruined the country with the response. They think it will less costly this way. Will the fear mongers in MSM abide or press for national ones again?

“The French government on Friday declared Paris and Marseille and its surrounding area high-risk zones for the coronavirus, granting authorities there powers to impose localised curbs to contain the spread of the disease.”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-france/paris-marseille-named-as-high-risk-covid-zones-making-curbs-likelier-idUKKCN25A0LC

88612 ▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1159 of 1303 🔗

Further down the page, I sneeringly posted a tweet sent to Andy Burnham asking what level the positive test numbers needed to be for people to “feel/be safe”.

I stick by the sneering, but if you turn the intent of question around I think this is an important thing we need to know. How much Covid is too much Covid? It clearly has nothing to do with healthcare capacity anymore, but rather, either percentage figures or absolute numbers in the population appearing to be infected. But at the same time, it doesn’t seem remotely clear what the trigger point is for deciding to be concerned enough to “impose restrictions”. As in Guy de Bedoyère’s essay in yesterday’s page, this appears to be arbitrary and chaotic, which makes it a disastrous policy, that can only compound the problems caused by the disastrous government of most of the western world over the course of the last 6 months.

88585 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1160 of 1303 🔗

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/nz-covid-19-oubreak-spread-beyond-auckland-with-12-new-confirmed-cases

“Health Minister Chris Hipkins said there were 12 confirmed cases of local transmission and 1 probable, following the shock reemergence of the virus in Auckland on Tuesday. He said 2 of the infections were found in the North Island town of Tokoroa, around 210 kilometres south of Auckland.
The infections outside Auckland come despite a strict lockdown, including masked police blocking roads to seal its borders.
All of the cases so far are connected, they are all part of 1 Auckland-based cluster, that’s good news. We’ve seen no evidence of a Covid-19 case outside of Auckland that is unrelated to the cluster we are dealing with.”

The genie is out of the bottle. In the cluster, yes, but 200 km from Auckland. St Jacinda has prolonged lock down for Auckland 12 days, what is she going to do with the rest of the country?

88619 ▶▶ IanE, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1161 of 1303 🔗

The rest of the country should be considering what to do with St Jacinda!

(I have one or two ideas on that issue.)

88624 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1162 of 1303 🔗

12 days now is it? I did have a little chuckle when I saw her defenders in twitter stating ‘ffs people it’s only 3 days, get a grip’… The same pattern repeats itself and these morons parrot the same lies each time. ‘its only for 20mins whilst you shop’, ‘its only for 3 weeks to flatten the curve’ etc… When will the cretins realise they’re being lied to endlessly? Power man dictators all over the world.

88591 Ned of the Hills, 3, #1163 of 1303 🔗

People who have been fined several times for not wearing a mask when using public transport are to receive heavier fines. So ’twas said on Radio 4’s news this morn.

How many ‘offenders’ are we talking about? Half a dozen? – two? – one?

I asked this because I recall a while back hearing that on the rail network only 13 fines had been issued in a fortnight.

Some concept of the numbers involved are needed to understand the thinking behind this.

It smacks of totalitarianism – rather than a measured measure to ensure public health.

If it is meant to curtail the spread of the virus to what extent is it imagined it will do so?

Are passengers noticeably begining to rebel? Has it been been done to encourage the others not to – as Voltaire might have said.

88592 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 28, #1164 of 1303 🔗

Thankfully wildlife conservation work has now resumed and so I was out working on the Torridge headwaters yesterday and have not followed the messages on this site. I think some people have questioned whether this discussion page does much good, preaching to the converted and disappearing after a day?
So just writing to say I do benefit from this discussion page, it gives me the knowledge and confidence to raise issues with others and hold my corner in a discussion, I have done some tweets and replies to tweets and been liked, re-tweeted and followed (spooky feeling!). So in a way we are the ‘sceptics virus’ if each one of us spreads the word, sceptic cases will rise, a sort of R rate for sceptics, except that I do not think you ever recover from scepticism, it just grows………………… we live in hope.

88605 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Steve Martindale, 9, #1165 of 1303 🔗

I spread the word whenever I can. Expressed my views to someone last night. They were so grateful to actually talk with someone who hadn’t bought into the madness. One convert at a time.

88625 ▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to Fed up, 3, #1166 of 1303 🔗

Me too, sent emails to sister in Cumbria (where I like to think people are sensible) and best friend with best links….john lee YouTube video (tho long), a swiss doctor, Carl henegan at cebm, speigelhalter on Today programme yesterday, bbc report from November 2018 saying excess winter deaths 2017-18 50,000.

88606 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #1167 of 1303 🔗

Very glad to hear that your vital work has resumed; I’ve been worried about the dire consequences for wild creatures.

88615 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Steve Martindale, #1168 of 1303 🔗

Steve – are you up in the north of Cox’s constituency then?

I’m towards the south, so a long way apart!

88646 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to TJN, #1169 of 1303 🔗

Village of Dolton, south of Great Torrington.

88650 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Steve Martindale, #1170 of 1303 🔗

I know Dolton. Pass through it sometimes. I’m down near Tavi.

88638 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #1171 of 1303 🔗

Absolutely, there’s very much a place for preaching to the converted. Boosts morale, allows exchanges of information, tests arguments, reassures people that they are not alone.

88647 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Steve Martindale, #1172 of 1303 🔗

Infect away, good man

88593 Anthony, replying to Anthony, 22, #1173 of 1303 🔗

Hairdressers now have to wear facemasks under their visors from 15/08.
My wife is a hairdresser and she’s said that this will be almost impossible to do all day. She suffers from anxiety and already finds it difficult to see due to glasses steaming up (being able to see is quite an important part of this job). Currently working non-stop without any breaks to get rid of back log. The thought of wearing a mask continuosly has reduced her to tears.

Another restriction plucked out if thin air for no reason.

88596 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Anthony, 12, #1174 of 1303 🔗

Exemption. Quite simple.

88609 ▶▶▶ Anthony, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #1175 of 1303 🔗

That’s what I’ve told her she must do. I feel sorry for all other hairdressers though. A lot of them are on their feet non-stop in hot humid conditions. A mask, glasses and a visor is just too much.

They should all seem exemptions

88626 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Anthony, 4, #1176 of 1303 🔗

Absolutely, they must, for their own health.

88683 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1177 of 1303 🔗

Is it commercially possible to be exempt? It’s possible a loss of custom will result by not wearing double layers of visible faux barriers. If the customers are buying the brainwashing. Exempt yes.

88801 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Basics, #1178 of 1303 🔗

She may have to play it by ear but exempt is exempt.

88885 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Basics, #1179 of 1303 🔗

The loss of each bed-wetting customer will be more than made up for by those women who are delighted to have their hair done in the “old normal” manner.

I am a regular customer at an out-of-the-way cafe. To my surprise, as soon as they realised I hated this nonsense, not only did they stop asking me to sign any T&T shite, but they stopped asking anyone else.

My mere presence caused the cafe to become “sceptic” for the time that I was there. I suspect that this place may start to realise that, in a country area, their business comes from the sceptic end of the market.

P.S. Two buiders have just walked in. Heavy boots, t-shirts, hard hats, no masks and breezed past the T&T table. They did sanitise their hands, of course; they were builders who actually work for a living.

88611 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Anthony, 10, #1180 of 1303 🔗

Dreadful! How can this nonsense possibly benefit small businesses and encourage more customers to visit?

Stress related symptoms making life a misery for ever more people.

I’ve already cancelled a planned appointment because of these arbitrary rules.

88627 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to wendyk, 5, #1181 of 1303 🔗

Me too. I think hairdressers will have to consider going mobile to survive.

88779 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #1182 of 1303 🔗

Yes – there must be loads of people like me who won’t go to a salon any more.

88621 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Anthony, 2, #1183 of 1303 🔗

What about those customers who have perms or shampoo and sets? Surely they can’t be expected to wear a mask whilst under a hairdryer? It’s bad enough if you had to wear one for a blow dry.

88630 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Anthony, 6, #1184 of 1303 🔗

HMG haven’t even done a full safety and risk assessment to ensure our safety when wearing masks. They do not give a toss about the safety of us.

See latest UK column that covers it in more detail.

88675 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Anthony, 2, #1185 of 1303 🔗

This is still guidance, not law, isn’t it (getting tired of looking these up every five minutes)? There’s a case on Simon Dolan’s page about a hairdresser who fought off local council Hitlers, I think her handle was VickyInTheUK.

88696 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Sam Vimes, #1186 of 1303 🔗

I honestly think hairdressers could be key to this. They are essential to so many. I take an action to write to 10 hairdressers with this information about Vicky and the govt guidelines re exemptions. I’ll choose popular busy hairdressers where demand outstrips supply. Anyone else want to do this?

88717 ▶▶▶ Anthony, replying to Sam Vimes, #1187 of 1303 🔗

Cheers – I’ll look into that

88749 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Sam Vimes, #1188 of 1303 🔗

Yep. Just guidance. Why are so many people taking the guidance as law. Guidance can be ignored completely. The law has various exemptions for everything that can be used by everybody if they choose to, so can also be ignored completely.

88595 Winston Smith, 2, #1189 of 1303 🔗

Grant Schapps on R4, bit of a kicking?

88614 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #1190 of 1303 🔗

The tsunami of facemasks will reach the Nordic countries very soon incl.Sweden. Facemasks is now a pure political issue and with Biden endorsing it and CDC Trump’s corona team fuelling it. MSM is now pro mask. Sweden’s politicians and MSM will not stop this and press for it in every Nordic country .MSM has an enormous influence also there. We might have perhaps a more relaxed attitude to face masks only in Eastern Europe. And face masks is not proven effective and some points to increase transmission. But MSM and Big Pharma want a free advertisement for vaccines and they are going to get it.

88726 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1191 of 1303 🔗

And face masks is not proven effective and some points to increase transmission

I don’t think people should play this game. The problem with masks isn’t whether they ‘work’ – especially when the virus isn’t even here any more. If you quote ‘science’ then the authorities will simply create or select ‘science’ that shows they do ‘work’. The real issue is that they are an inhuman abomination, and that the people promoting them are either focused on a single ‘metric’ and don’t know what the wider side effects will be, or are authoritarian zealots who want to control everyone with a visual badge of compliance – all their wet dreams come true.

88736 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1192 of 1303 🔗

Agreed. H & S at work is an accepted concept, with PPE in the building trades and all the rest of it. But I can’t think of another occasion when what you wear as a member of the public has been a legal issue before.

88620 Ned of the Hills, 8, #1193 of 1303 🔗

People who have been fined several times for not wearing a mask when using public transport are to receive heavier fines. So ’twas said on Radio 4’s news this morn.

How many ‘offenders’ are we talking about? Half a dozen? – two? – one?

I asked this because I recall a while back hearing that on the rail network only 13 fines had been issued in a fortnight.

Some concept of the numbers involved are needed to understand the thinking behind this.

It smacks of totalitarianism – rather than a measured measure to ensure public health.

If it is meant to curtail the spread of the virus to what extent is it imagined it will do so?
Are passengers noticeably begining to rebel? Has it been been done to encourage the others not to? – as Voltaire might have said.

88623 AMZ, replying to AMZ, 9, #1194 of 1303 🔗

It comes as the government introduces bigger fines for failing to wear a mask in places where it is compulsory.”

WTF?! So the virus is “levelling out” but fines for not wearing masks are going up! What next curfews like Australia? Quarantine camps like New Zealand?!

88633 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to AMZ, 1, #1195 of 1303 🔗

Where is the quote from~?

88632 PaulC, replying to PaulC, 17, #1196 of 1303 🔗

Just tried to get an appointment at my local surgery to have my right ear syringed as have gone totally deaf.
‘Not one of the proceedures we are doing at the moment’.
‘Can you tell me why?’
‘Debris could fly out’
‘Does the debris have corona virus?’
‘Don’t know. It might do.’
‘So I just have to stay deaf?’
‘Yes. I can put you on our waiting list for when we start this proceedure again’.
‘How long will this be?’
‘Don’t know’.

Give me peace!

88634 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to PaulC, #1197 of 1303 🔗

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/LUGGUARDS%C2%AE-Stream-Removal-Syringe-STERILE/dp/B07JN43JQD/ref=sr_1_13?crid=1G2H06DNF70V4&dchild=1&keywords=ear+syringes+for+removing+ear+wax&qid=1597391914&sprefix=ear+syringe%2Caps%2C303&sr=8-13

Sorry about length of link, but, this will solve the rpoblem and restore your sanity.

I’ve suffered for many years and bought one of these when the madness started.

It works.

88639 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to wendyk, 1, #1198 of 1303 🔗

Can I think you also for that link. ‘Tis tinitus I have in my left ear – since October.

88660 ▶▶▶ PaulC, replying to wendyk, #1199 of 1303 🔗

Thank you for this. I have been putting olive oil in and can generally get the wax out myself using a rubber water syringe – but not this time.

88670 ▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to PaulC, #1200 of 1303 🔗

Try sodium bicarbonate ear drops available either via a pharmacy or from Amazon. Works better than olive oil at softening wax.

88775 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DocRC, #1201 of 1303 🔗

Every single one of those treatments just blocks up my ears twice as badly and nothing comes out at the end of it all. I’ve given up for now, you get used to being deaf and it can be handy at times (“Where’s your mask?” etc). Besides, a lot of GPs don’t do ear syringing at all any more, some places will suck it out with a sort of vacuum cleaner-type gizmo I think. I read something about it well before covid, where people were being forced to pay £120ish per ear to have them done privately, because it’s no longer an NHS service.

88635 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to PaulC, 2, #1202 of 1303 🔗

Yet you can get this done if you pay to hire an entrepreneurial medic or nurse to do it. The NHS is hiding behind the sofa.

88637 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to PaulC, 1, #1203 of 1303 🔗

Olive oil drops in it for a week. Or earsolve or similar. Get large 50ml syringe from Ebay. Hopefully you have someone who can gently squirt warm water in your ear. Otherwise, it is possible to do it yourself. I’ve done hubby’s ears for years, he gets blocked up all the time.

88685 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #1204 of 1303 🔗

I would be carefull doing it yourself or getting somebody to do it for you. You can burst your eardrum fairly easily I have hear this from a few nurses now.

They stopped using the syringe thing about 15 years ago as it was too dangerous and they all use a special ear syringe, a pumped electric thing that regulates the pressure accurately.

Also anti ear wax drops have UREA in them which is very irritating to skin after a short time. I have tried it and it really messed up my ear skin.

Olive oil is good but you do need to hose out the gunk, I found going swimming a lot helped to dislodge my ear gunk in the past.

88641 ▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulC, 8, #1205 of 1303 🔗

Infuriating the way so many medical professionals have so meekly caved in to such obviously absurdly disproportionate nonsense, as an excuse not to do their jobs.

88668 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to PaulC, 2, #1206 of 1303 🔗

In addition to the recommended olive oil drops in ear treatment, also consider increasing your omega 3 levels

Ear wax accumulation is associated with Omega-3 deficiency
https://vitamindwiki.com/Ear+wax+accumulation+is+associated+with+Omega-3+deficiency

88684 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Victoria, 1, #1207 of 1303 🔗

Well said. A spoonful of ground linseed each day-originally tried for another reason-has helped significantly.

If you see this PaulC, buy some linseed as well as the syringe.

88798 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to PaulC, 1, #1208 of 1303 🔗

Paul, I find that Otex drops are a big help with ear wax. You can get them in most pharmacies.

88636 Mark, replying to Mark, 10, #1209 of 1303 🔗

Coronavirus: Trump clashes with Biden over whether to require masks in US
Biden full on maskhole, Trump hiding behind States’ rights.

Trump clearly started out (as so often) with the right instincts in relation to masks – he didn’t like them. Unfortunately he was coerced by political necessity to give them at least half-hearted backing because the massive media propaganda meant most American were either full on coronapanic zealots or “it can’t do any harm” collaborators.

It’s really very sad that the conservative media (such as it is) and party establishment couldn’t get strongly behind the argument that masks have no clear impact on disease spread but absolutely are harmful because they do spread fear of the disease.

Instead, as so often we have leftist zealots pushing nonsense, and divided conservatives failing to resist properly. Pretty much the story of the C20th/C21st so far in the US sphere.

88652 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark, 1, #1210 of 1303 🔗

Unfortunately, Biden had played a good hand here (politically). He, or more likely his carers, have found a crack in the Trump position.

Trump doesn’t believe in masks but has been forced to advocate for them. So now he is trapped between going full mask and alienating his hard core base or going full anti mask and alienating moderates who all buy the mask BS. And if he half arses it, he’ll appear political, which spoils his no nonsense image.

He is snookered on this one.

88663 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stewart, #1211 of 1303 🔗

Indeed, although I think in the sense that they had a good hand dealt to them and are proceeding to exploit it.

88644 James Leary #KBF, 16, #1212 of 1303 🔗

First they stole our freedom under the guise of controlling Covid ‘deaths’, and that seamlessly morphed overnight into Covid ‘cases’ in the country, then into ‘areas & towns’. Now they are upping the ante and doubling down on control because of what’s happening (or not) in somebody else’s country.

Who do you think it is that decides which country is next on the ‘uptick’ roster, pour encourager les autres?

I used to laugh at the world conspiracy theories. Now, it’s quite simply the only credible explanation.

An uprising is the only way to test the theory, and if foreign armies pile in to ‘aid’ TPTB, we will know for sure.

‘First they used Manhattan, then they used Berlin’. L Cohen.

88645 swedenborg, #1213 of 1303 🔗

Blamegame.UK or Australia?

“Health Minister Chris Hipkins said genome testing suggested the new virus outbreak had originated in Britain or Australia, but officials were still investigating how the family in Auckland contracted it”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-newzealand/new-zealand-reports-more-covid-19-cases-ahead-of-lockdown-decision-idUKKCN2593AZ

88648 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 13, #1214 of 1303 🔗

After reading the article about the appalling way PHE has deceived the British public by deliberately inflating Covid deaths why haven’t any of them been arrested? Still on full pay are they?

Toby thank you for this website it’s an oasis in a storm!

88659 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #1215 of 1303 🔗

…and the feeble excuse was they didn’t want to miss any. What, by counting a load of people who didn’t die from it! Is that what passes as science these days? These numbers have been fundamental in ruining peoples lives and livelihoods, removing civil liberties, causing avoidable cancer deaths, etc. and they treat them like a GCSE science project. Not to mention if it hadn’t been scrutiny from outside they wouldn’t have even been called out on it. This isn’t a game.

88674 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #1216 of 1303 🔗

The other thing is, if you were this incompetent in any other sphere of work, you would be sacked.

88678 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 4, #1217 of 1303 🔗

The phrase “good enough for government work” is widespread for good reason.

88701 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to kh1485, 4, #1218 of 1303 🔗

You’d be sacked AND possibly liable for huge sums (depending on line of work). If I fucked up a clients software project this bad there’d be major consequences for my boss (well, his little company & by extension him) and myself. Amazing how at the ‘top’, there are never consequences.

88708 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark II, 4, #1219 of 1303 🔗

Indeed, they’re like football managers, there’s always another job no matter what the level of incompetence.

88709 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to kh1485, 3, #1220 of 1303 🔗

Haha quite!! Politicians and Health chiefs – the Harry Redknapps of the public sector world.

88799 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 2, #1221 of 1303 🔗

It’s not incompetence. It’s following orders.

All the difference in the world.

88713 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mark II, 2, #1222 of 1303 🔗

In fairness (I say this also as a software dev), getting the exact desired figures out of the database would be something agreed during analysis and design. It would be quite quick to determine the figures weren’t correct and it would be easily fixed (it’s almost certainly a change to database query or updating filter; something that won’t take 4 months).

I think, but will definitely concede I may not be right, that PHE was doing exactly what the government wanted and created a convenient plausible deniability trapdoor for Hancock. As soon as those figures are questioned, Hancock can slope his shoulders.

I’m certainly not disagreeing that PHE is utterly incompetent though.

88837 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1223 of 1303 🔗

Are we all software devs waiting for the compiler up here at this time of day?

88871 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Andrew Fish, #1224 of 1303 🔗

LOL 🙂

88676 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #1225 of 1303 🔗

PHE Should be disbanded immediately and it’s directors suspended on no pay untill a court hearing where they should be charged with a range of charges.

88691 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #1226 of 1303 🔗

It’s not really surprising. The last couple of decades have seen any number of scandals, Iraq, Libya, grooming gangs, the financial crisis etc. that have caused untold damage to people and non of the people responsible within government, or authority, have been held to account.
If the government mandated vaccination and it killed half the populace, I still doubt any responsibility would be taken.

88803 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1227 of 1303 🔗

You’ll be expecting policepeople to be found guilty for shooting innocent people in cold blood next. 🙂

88654 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 16, #1228 of 1303 🔗

Amazing how MSM continually brainwash us.

2 presenters on radio talking about what makes them feel happy. 1 presenter explains sitting with his father in his garden having a beer. Lovely. In the next breath ‘a socially distant beer of course’

MSM makes me sick, forever turning the screw and spreading the message.

88664 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stefarm, 8, #1229 of 1303 🔗

DT Parliamentary sketch writer told of his son being asked that question at school.
“Eating custard creams”
‘What makes you unhappy ?”
“not eating custard creams”
‘If you are unhappy what do you do to make yourself happy?’
“…eat some custard cream”.

88688 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1230 of 1303 🔗

That is some sound logic.

88689 ▶▶ davews, replying to stefarm, 4, #1231 of 1303 🔗

Turned on Talk Radio just before 8am. They were discussing the A level results and interviewer chatting to a girl who was upset that her results had been downgraded to less than required for her university. University course was going to be media studies or whatever. At which point the lady interviewer spent several minutes saying ‘why on earth do you want to go into journalism, there are far better jobs out there. PLEASE chose a different subject’. Honestly that sort of behaviour from the media is the limit, she should be discussing the subject under hand, not trying to tell her interviewee she is wrong.

88698 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to davews, 2, #1232 of 1303 🔗

It’s interesting that someone in the media is telling someone looking for work in the media to not do it.

My first reaction thought was the obvious jump to an accusation of hypocrisy, shortly followed by wondering if the media cake was getting divided a little too thin.

However, I do wonder if it’s a tacit acknowledgement that there is something a little rotten in the media world and it was more of a genuine warning.

88707 ▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1233 of 1303 🔗

It’s to do with diluting the quality of what used to be a profession. Thousands of barely literate brainwashed automatons flooding a diminishing employment market is hardly to be desired. Reminds me of the joke saying “You piss-heads are giving us alcoholics a bad name”.

88693 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to stefarm, 2, #1234 of 1303 🔗

Particularly as it was almost certainly not true. I seriously doubt they actually remained 2m apart but saying “socially distanced of course” at the end of a statement about what you’ve been doing has become the modern day equivalent of saying “bless you” after a sneeze.

88699 ▶▶ Sue, replying to stefarm, 4, #1235 of 1303 🔗

I can’t listen to the radio much these days for all the propoganda pushed subliminally by the presenters or the adverts – makes me too angry.
I was given an Alexa recently, (though have been a bit poo poo about these for security reasons etc), but it does have benefit for music and i just say “Alexa play me music” and hey presto music with no propoganda, no presenters spouting their views, no news, no ads – works for me!

88705 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sue, 7, #1236 of 1303 🔗

My radios got turned off in late March. Everything that is on them is POISON! I also haven’t watched any TV since then either. Everything that is on it IS POISON!

88757 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Two-Six, #1237 of 1303 🔗

agreed! it’s all poisonous propaganda. stay well away.

88665 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 6, #1238 of 1303 🔗

Amazing set of charts from Christopher Bowyer in today’s Hector Drummond post: https://hectordrummond.com/2020/08/14/week-31-graphs-from-christopher-bowyer/
To me the most shocking are the location & cause of death charts towards the end of the post. For about the last 3 months deaths in hospitals have been significantly trending below the 5 year average for deaths in hospital, but the real shock is to be found in the excess deaths in care homes & deaths at home. In care homes of the excess deaths more died from non-covid causes than died with covid! There’s no reason to suppose that a significant proportion of the ‘covid’ deaths didn’t also die of the causes that killed the ‘non-covid’ residents, probably; neglect, dehydration, depression etc. The same is true of deaths at home. There was a massive increase in deaths at home but only about 15% of those excess fatalities were covid positive, and this is going on still.

88673 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Marie R, 7, #1239 of 1303 🔗

I Went to see a customer just after peak lockdown and they had “an old guy” in their neighbouring flat who had died, alone, in his room and NOBODY realised until his stinking corpse became too my to bear. He had died about 3 weeks previously. I think this has happened A LOT.

88697 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Marie R, 5, #1240 of 1303 🔗

Also of concern is the treatment of the elderly in care homes.
There were numerous cases prior to lockdown of negligence, cruelty or callousness towards the residents, caught by vigilant family who noticed things during visits.
That control on staff behaviour no longer exists.

88672 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1241 of 1303 🔗

I don’t like the way Covid ‘measures’ are celebrated by ordinary people. Businesses sell them as a feature. In an outdoor cafe yesterday, the owner showed a family to a table saying “Ah yes, this one’s been cleaned”.

I don’t want to know that. It’s like telling the customer all the details of what was found in the toilets last night, or the sell-by dates of the food they’re serving. Some things are better left unsaid.

In a hellish vision at another outdoor establishment, I saw a youth in a face mask with a bucket and brush, going round scrubbing wooden tables and seats as customers left them, leaving everything wet and presumably smelling of disinfectant, ready for the next lucky punters.

88753 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Barney McGrew, #1242 of 1303 🔗

I hate it too.

88867 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Barney McGrew, #1243 of 1303 🔗

I make a point of gently advising staff (as they can’t do much about it) that I visit a cafe because they don’t excessively overdo the staff PPE.

88682 swedenborg, 15, #1244 of 1303 🔗

Canaries was the last part of Spain with no compulsory face masks outdoors. That has changed today. Canaries’s economy 40 % from tourist industry. The pressure was too much from central government and a frightened population willing to a local suicide.
Only a country with no facemasks will be the only one to attract tourists in the long run. Montenegro? Croatia? Bulgaria? The Mediterranean tourist countries will continue with face nappies in a willing and easily duped population until the whole thing collapses when the money runs out.

88686 NickR, replying to NickR, 7, #1245 of 1303 🔗

A friend just told me he’d just paid a big builder’s bill, the builder had asked for cash coz all his subcontractors were furloughed!

88716 ▶▶ Basics, replying to NickR, 5, #1246 of 1303 🔗

A friend in the trade is aware some sites were/are active and collecting furlough. It appears, they say, there is a very easy system to collect double pay.

88687 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 11, #1247 of 1303 🔗

The whole world has been used as a hostage to the US politics. The pandemic will end 3rd Nov. If you were not a conspiracy theorist, each day makes it more difficult to resist. A very good read.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/08/13/the_attempted_covid_coup_of_2020_143952.html

88700 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1248 of 1303 🔗

The USA “Democrats” are just ONE group hitching their wagons onto The Corona Project Train.

88722 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1249 of 1303 🔗

The global coronapanic was in full flow before the US election began to impinge all that much on events, but it;’s certainly true that as the US campaign has heated up it has increasingly exported politicised coronapanic around the world, especially to US sphere countries such as the UK and EU.

With billions spent and the results affecting vital interests all around the world, it’s no wonder that US Presidential politics is integrated into politics and governance throughout the US sphere and beyond. So it might be that the coronapanic will end when the Presidential election ends, but if so then most likely only because it will have been kept going artificially to serve political purposes in that election.

Equally possibly the coronapanic will still be going then, though it might lose some US-sourced heat, because governments will still desperately be trying to avoid any admission that they trashed the world for nothing, and will be looking to ramp up fear again as the northern hemisphere respiratory virus season returns.

88690 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 22, #1250 of 1303 🔗

My first mask-less foray into Tesco yesterday passed with ease. Went in, exempt lanyard in hand (but not visible), shoulders back, ‘don’t mess with me’ look plastered on my face (though I felt the anxiety rise as I walked in but didn’t let the buggers see that), got what I wanted, went to the self-service till, paid with (OMG) cash. Left. Got dirty look from masked-up customer: reciprocated.

88695 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to kh1485, 10, #1251 of 1303 🔗

Don’t slink around. Look as though you are looking for a fight. Eye contact first. Haven’t had a single problem – yet. If you need a prop, carry a clipboard. Always works.

88706 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to James Leary #KBF, 7, #1252 of 1303 🔗

baseball bat is also useful! 🙂

88710 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #1253 of 1303 🔗

Love the clipboard idea!

88729 ▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to kh1485, 4, #1254 of 1303 🔗

Police uniform works as well they don’t need a muzzle on duty but they never bother when going Greggs for more donuts

88746 ▶▶ watashi, replying to kh1485, 2, #1255 of 1303 🔗

Congrats! I had a similarly ok experience in a petrol station. Exempt badge in pocket just in case, no one commented. Guy that came in after me also unmasked.

88752 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 3, #1256 of 1303 🔗

Also dress smartly even if its just a tailored shirt, trousers/skirt and comfortable but smart shoes. I do that quite a lot and some people think I’m a manager of some sort and steer clear away.

88778 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, #1257 of 1303 🔗

Thanks Bart. I must confess I thought of you all as I went in …

Can’t spend as much time on LS as still have no internet at home (old provider in a snit because I dared to switch, so ongoing dispute right now and having to snatch the odd moment at work!).

88860 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Bart Simpson, #1258 of 1303 🔗

Or they think “Oh, someone assertive!” and steer clear.

89084 ▶▶ Lili, replying to kh1485, 1, #1259 of 1303 🔗

Wonderful, although I would have given that customer a beaming smile and said something chatty and friendly. We have to win these people over.

88692 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #1260 of 1303 🔗

Very bad news for New Zealand, and for mask wearers everywhere:

These results provide an explanation for enigmatic observations that viruses with very high genetic identity can be found in very distant and different environments.

The highest relative deposition rates for viruses were associated with atmospheric transport from marine rather than terrestrial sources.’

‘There is evidence that bacteria and viruses can remain viable after atmospheric transport, which is consistent with the wide dispersal of microbes across very distant ecosystems. Hence, significant downward fluxes of bacteria and viruses from the atmosphere may have effects on the structure and function of recipient ecosystems. Rather than being a negative consequence, this deposition provides a seed bank that should allow ecosystems to rapidly adapt to environmental changes.’

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41396-017-0042-4

Oh, so the wide spread of viruses on the wind has been going on for millenia, and is actually a good thing for adaptable ecosystems/species? And which is one of the most adaptable species…….?

But everyone already knew that…..except for those affected by harmful chemicals finding solace from incipient paranoia on twitter……

88715 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1261 of 1303 🔗

I think gates has the answer sewn up. He has invested in sun blocking technologies – yes our sun, the big one in the sky. So it will be a simple fix to UVA and UVB the virus out of the sk…. hang on there, isn’t that what the sun does already better that gates and for free? Wasn’t it agreed that viruses are not fond of sunlight and fresh air. It all feels a little like acid rain all over again. Now my cogs are turning, corona is acid proof. I expect to be told soon that corona wears red underpants outside its blue leggings.

With this new found study it is clear all glacial and Ice cap drilling and exploration ought to be stopped until viral security of operations can be arranged. Don’t want them unlocking coronas bigger brother now do we.

It used to be said in the early 80s that by the time a person reached 40 years of age that person would have breathed the same molecules of oxygen as Jesus. I don’t know if this was debunked. It’s a nice thought so I kept it.

88755 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1262 of 1303 🔗

That’s fabulous. St. Jacinda should weep.

88758 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1263 of 1303 🔗

When will these idiots realise they can’t control nature. It’s the same when a volcano erupts and people want to know how to stop it ever happening again. It drives me mad that humans think they are more powerful than nature.

88694 microdave, 2, #1264 of 1303 🔗
88702 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #1265 of 1303 🔗

if you have a twitter account complete the survey

How many people do you actually know, that died OF COVID? And I mean know, not a friend of a friend etc
*None
*One
*Two
*More

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1293922044581744640

88712 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Victoria, 2, #1266 of 1303 🔗

Oh, do relay the results of that survey.

In my case maybe I’d put down one. My chum’s brother-in-law whom I met once. He was in his mid eighties and died in a nursing home. Though I think there has to be a question mark as to whether he had the virus.

88743 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Victoria, #1267 of 1303 🔗

none

88751 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Victoria, #1268 of 1303 🔗

None

88711 Ossettian, replying to Ossettian, 21, #1269 of 1303 🔗

Just back from my weekly trip to Asda in Corby.

Most staff unmasked. I won’t give money to supermarkets that force their staff to damage their health and humanity.

10 unmasked customers compared to 3 last week. Similar number not wearing them properly, in 2 cases just covering the chin.

Fewer masked children

88724 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ossettian, 8, #1270 of 1303 🔗

Yes it’s clear mask wearing has been on the wane over the last week or so – hence the government’s hysterical response, proposing yet more draconian punishments for the non compliant.

88737 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to OKUK, 4, #1271 of 1303 🔗

I get the impression that there are many technocrats and social engineers enjoying their new powers. It gives them a once in a lifetime chance to carry out behavioural experiments on the population. I also think some really enjoy getting people they dislike submitting to them.

88744 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to OKUK, 1, #1272 of 1303 🔗

I’ve missed that. What are the newest draconian punishments?

88764 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to watashi, 1, #1273 of 1303 🔗

Increasing fines for refusing to wear a mask, up to a limit of £3000.

88781 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Ossettian, 3, #1274 of 1303 🔗

Good to hear that from your neck of the woods. I went to our lovely (near) normal pub the other evening. No masks to be seen anywhere on the streets, and it was busy, and certainly none in the pub! My brother who does not wear a nap, reported that more and more people have been going napless at the giant Sainsburys where he shops. Only 33 (the magic number) fines have been issued so far on TFL, but Boris want to increase the fines for persistent offenders. All starting to sound a desperate now. BTW, the government hasn’t bothered to carry out a medical risk assessment and provide proof that mask wearing will not cause harm to health. I’ve written to my MP and UK Column have tried to get a response regarding this but nothing. So I shall carry on re-mask-less (sorry!)

88714 PastImperfect, 1, #1275 of 1303 🔗

Good, quick, elucidation of the dangers of masks a little after 7:30
https://youtu.be/UDoP-Sgimvg

88719 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 12, #1276 of 1303 🔗

I have just watched a video on Susan Michie one of the SAGE advisors. She is fanatical about getting ‘Covid’ cases to zero so I can’t see anything other than a very bleak winter ahead. She is an outspoken communist party member and has spoken publicly about hating Boris Johnson and other senior conservatives – so I am not surprised she seems keen on destroying the economy via harsh measures! Why won’t they change some of the advisors? it’s madness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-OnxDDoF-I

88720 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Darryl, 7, #1277 of 1303 🔗

How shocking that a person with a scientific credentials is so clueless: You cannot eradicate a virus.

88739 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Darryl, 4, #1278 of 1303 🔗

Why have such a harsh critic as an advisor!!??

88740 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to stefarm, 5, #1279 of 1303 🔗

It seems madness. I am not convinced she wouldn’t like the country in ruins – she will certainly be out campaigning for a far left government to solve the problems she has in part caused.

88756 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, #1280 of 1303 🔗

Why can’t you “see” her in prison, out of a job, or subject to widespread public disgust ? Gotta try harder, Darryl ! 🙂

88723 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #1281 of 1303 🔗

Why Aren’t We Promoting Health to Combat COVID?

It’s an unfortunate fact that health officials and pandemic response authorities, by and large, are completely ignoring the role a healthy lifestyle plays in the COVID-19 pandemic, focusing instead, almost exclusively, on the necessity for a vaccine.

According to Reuters, the U.S. government is planning to launch an “overwhelming” COVID-19 vaccine campaign come November. An unnamed “senior White House administration official” is quoted saying:

“The fine line we are walking is getting the American people very excited about vaccines and missing expectations versus having a bunch of vaccines in the warehouse and not as many people want to get it. You may not hear a lot about promoting vaccines over the airwaves in August and September but you’ll be overwhelmed by it come November.”

But is a vaccine really going to be the answer people are hoping for? For example, many have bought into the mainstream narrative that masks are here to stay until or unless there’s a vaccine, and getting vaccinated would mean the end to mask mandates.

Considering the fact that neither masks nor vaccines offer significant protection against the virus, chances are such hopes will get dashed. Maria Elena Bottazzi, a COVID-19 Vaccine developer at Baylor College of Medicine, recently warned that social distancing and face masks will likely still be required even after a vaccine becomes available , as the vaccine will not offer 100% protection against infection.

So, don’t be fooled. Vaccines will be in addition to what we are told to do now, not a replacement. Even Moderna’s CEO Stephanie Bancel stated that if the vaccine reaches 90% effectiveness, which is a beyond overly optimistic projection, people with high-risk health conditions will need to continue wearing masks.

In addition to not necessarily removing the “need” for masks and social distancing mandates in the future, the novel mRNA vaccines being developed against COVID-19 may also be an autoimmune disorder disaster in the making, as explained in “ The Well-Known Hazards of Coronavirus Vaccines ” and “ Gates Tries to Justify Side Effects of Fast-Tracked Vaccine .”

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/08/14/how-should-we-combat-the-coronavirus.aspx

88732 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Victoria, 3, #1282 of 1303 🔗

Good health in America only seems to be possible via Big Pharma. I believe they are the most medicated people in the developed world but also the most unhealthy.

Can’t believe so many Americans seem to believe good health comes via a needle. They should sort out their diets and do some exercise.

88748 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, 1, #1283 of 1303 🔗

That’s told ’em !

88733 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 4, #1284 of 1303 🔗

The important issue is simple : a widespread dangerous infection named “Covid” does not exist.

Thus vaccines and other measures to counter it are a waste of time and space, and, as in the case of rushed, undertested vaccines, positively dangerous.

88761 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Victoria, 4, #1285 of 1303 🔗

“People with high-risk health conditions will need to continue wearing masks.”

But I thought we were supposed to wear masks to protect others, not ourselves? Because we care?

88725 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 1, #1286 of 1303 🔗

Just stumbled across this from another comments board (man I get so little work done thanks to stressing endlessly about the state of the country!) but it is a truly fascinating read – a write up of what I believe is a sitting of German parliament inquiry into corona-crisis. Not sure if posted before or Toby has posted, apologies if it is old news to anyone

https://thdrussell.blogspot.com/2020/07/second-session-of-german-coronavirus.html

88730 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark II, 4, #1287 of 1303 🔗

Great link thanks.

We know we are infected when our throats hurt or we have a runny nose. Which virus we might have caught isn’t the issue; we stay at home and wait for it to pass. But the argument that there is a new a dangerous pathogen afoot was used to test as many people as possible; enormous effort to learn almost nothing.

88738 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Victoria, 2, #1288 of 1303 🔗

Never worked anywhere that sore throat or runny nose kept people away from work- in any case, those are also
the symptoms of hay fever so not a guide to anything.

88759 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to OKUK, 2, #1289 of 1303 🔗

Exactly – during the winter, half the workforce would be off at any one time if they stayed off with typical cold symptoms. And schools would be permanently closed. This will be a big problem this winter I think. Anyone with even the mildest symptoms will have to stay at home (and probably be forced to take The Test). Still, we can relax, because as long as it’s “just” flu they’ll be free to spread it around and infect granny like normal.

88727 Victoria, replying to Victoria, #1290 of 1303 🔗

Glutathione Deficiency May Be Associated With COVID Severity

A glutathione deficiency may be at the root of severe illness, as it leads to significant oxidative stress, lung inflammation and multiorgan failure with COVID

One scientist linked glutathione deficiency with many of the comorbid conditions that raise COVID-19 severity, including age, diabetes, gender and smoking

The researcher also found data indicating that glutathione deficiency can impact your ability to synthesize vitamin D, another risk factor for severe disease

NAC supplementation, foods rich in glutathione precursors, aerobic exercise and strength training can help support healthy levels

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/08/14/glutathione-deficiency-linked-to-covid-severity.aspx

Note: N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is also an excellent add-on when trying to quit smoking or drinking

88731 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Victoria, -2, #1291 of 1303 🔗

How is this relevant?

88735 djc, 2, #1292 of 1303 🔗

PHE reporting of COVID-19 deaths: technical summary

The conclusion from the review was that the vast majority (88%) of COVID-19 related deaths occurred within 28 days of the first positive specimen date, and that for those deaths 95% have a mention of COVID-19 on the death certificate. The proportion of deaths with a mention of COVID-19 on the certificate decreases for deaths with a longer interval between the first positive specimen and date of death; however this is 73.4% for those with an interval of 29-42 days and 48.1% for those with an interval of 43-60 days between specimen date and date of death (

On 12 August 20201 , the number of deaths in people with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 without a time limit applied was 42,072 deaths. Applying a time limit of 60 days or COVID-19 on the death registration results in in a total of 40,404 deaths being reported; a reduction of 1668 (4%). Applying a 28-day time limit results in 36,695 deaths being reported; a reduction of 5377 (12.8%).

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/908781/Technical_Summary_PHE_Data_Series_COVID-19_Deaths_20200812.pdf

88741 watashi, 3, #1293 of 1303 🔗

Have you guys all signed this one?;
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442
(prevent any restrictions on those who refuse a covid-19 vaccination)

88745 JohnB, #1294 of 1303 🔗
88750 Winston Smith, 6, #1295 of 1303 🔗

Surely, anybody with a functioning brain can see that this isn’t about health?

I’m trying to recruit somebody from Italy and every step is getting more difficult and laborious.

I’m have a(nother) bad day 🙄

88754 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1296 of 1303 🔗

Just look at them! Sickening!!
comment image ?imwidth=640

As someone pointed out yesterday, real sheep have very expressive faces.

Did you find that you instinctively homed in on the one who’d lowered her muzzle to use the phone?

88762 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1297 of 1303 🔗

I find it a horrific sight, all the more so because I know that for whatever reason these people are masked up it is not to keep them ‘safe’.
I have not been inside a shop for three weeks now, nor will I while this madness is upon us, I hate even to see it never mind participating myself.

88767 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to tonys, 2, #1298 of 1303 🔗

Me2

88807 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to tonys, #1299 of 1303 🔗

same here!

88978 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to watashi, 1, #1300 of 1303 🔗

It is very unsettling seeing a masked population. But I suggest that LockdownSceptics have a duty, whenever possible, to get out shopping sans masks. Sets a good example. Keeps pressure on retailers. Etc.

88782 Cheezilla, 1, #1301 of 1303 🔗

Aaargh! Still some good stuff to catch up on here but the new Update is now online ……………………………>>>

88794 Basics, replying to Basics, #1302 of 1303 🔗

Apologies if covered before. Who is he to be talking like this –

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-bill-gates-covid-vaccine/

Bloomberg: How confident are you we’ll have a working vaccine that can be widely distributed by the end of 2020?
Gates: Well, the initial vaccine won’t be ideal in terms of its effectiveness against sickness and transmission. It may not have a long duration, and it will mainly be used in rich countries as a stopgap measure.

We’d be lucky to have much before the end of the year. But then, in 2021, a number of other vaccines are very likely to get approved. The strongest response will probably come from the protein subunit. With so many companies working on it, we can afford quite a few failures and still have something with low cost and long duration.
[…]
For years, people have said if anti-vaxxers had lived through a pandemic, the way their grandparents did, they’d think differently. Whoops.
The two times I’ve been to the White House [since 2016], I was told I had to go listen to anti-vaxxers like Robert Kennedy Jr. So, yes, it’s ironic that people are questioning vaccines and we’re actually having to say, “Oh, my God, how else can you get out of a tragic pandemic?”

Bloomberg: Given the skepticism, should a Covid vaccine be mandatory?
Gates: Making something mandatory can often backfire. But you might say that if you’re going to work in an old-folks home or have any exposure to elderly people, it would be required.
[…]
Bloomberg: How do you think this all ends?
Gates: The innovations in therapeutics will start to cut the death rate, but the true end will come from the spread of natural infections and the vaccine giving us herd immunity. For rich countries, that will be sometime next year, ideally in the first half. We’ll get out of this by the end of 2021.

Bloomberg: So we’re going to be OK?
Gates: Certainly. We’re lucky this one wasn’t a more fatal disease.

There are 6 vaccines being worked on for UK alone. Yet Gates talks as he does. Acutally it’s a written interview so the words are attributed to him – indeed the questions are attributed to Bloomberg.

88813 ▶▶ nat, replying to Basics, #1303 of 1303 🔗

Who is he to be talking like this? Precisely

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24Nessimmersion7, 0, 1, 6, 5, 5
24Lucky5, 2, 0, 0, 0, 3, 0, 0, 2, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 6, 1
23Mike Collins23
23Sarigan1, 1, 10, 1, 5, 2, 3
22Steve Hayes22
22JulieR9, 13
22Dan Clarke6, 14, 2
22Jay Berger3, 0, 2, 4, 4, 1, 8
22Simon2, 0, 0, 0, 8, 0, 12, 0
22Andrew Fish5, 9, 0, 0, 0, 5, 1, 1, 1
22Ned of the Hills3, 81, 2, 0, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2
21Major Panic18, 3
21Moomin19, 2
21Bruno1, 2, 4, 8, 0, 0, 0, 4, 1, 1, 0
20Little Red Hen9, 5, 6
20LGDTLK2, 10, 2, 6
19Ovis19
19Barney McGrew5, 12, 2
19TJN11, 8, 0, 0
19watashi32, 3, 8, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0
18Paul E18
18Bella Donna0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 2, 13
17PaulC17, 0
16Paul M13, 3
15Bugle11, 4
15Margaret2, 13
15AMZ3, 3, 9
15Country Mumkin33, 9, 0
15Sophie1231, 0, 5, 9
14MDH14
14Tim Bidie6, 8
14PWL2, 41, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2
13Dave Tee13
13tonys8, 5
13smurfs5, 1, 7
13matt5, 2, 2, 4
12arfurmo3, 9
12Tim Paton12, 0
12Christopher Bowyer8, 4, 0
12Strange Days5, 0, 7
11Lockdown_Lunacy11
11smileymiley11
11commononsense08, 3
11Jonathan Palmer5, 6, 0
11Will Jones7, 2, 2
11Sally0, 1, 10, 0
11Kath Andrews0, 0, 3, 7, 1
11Alison91, 3, 6, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
10assoc10
10Nigel Sherratt10
10Roadrash10
106097 Smith W6, 4
10DocRC10, 0
10NickR3, 7
10Matt Mounsey5, 5, 0
10Tom Blackburn23, 0, 5
10Eddie70, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
9Dave #KBF9
9DRW4, 5
9Miss Owl8, 1
9Bob6, 1, 2
9PastImperfect11, 1, 6
8Ewan Duffy8
8ShropshireLass8
8Badgerman80
8Lms237, 1
8Keen Cook2, 0, 5, 1
8RichardJames1, 0, 5, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
8Sylvie0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 4, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0
7Bill Hickling7
7Stephen Biddle7
6Gillian6
6TyRade6
6Cambridge N4, 2
6DJ Dod3, 3
6H K2, 4
6wendy1, 4, 1
6Silke David1, 0, 2, 0, 3
5Biggles5
5FrankiiB5
5Steeve5
5Jonathan Castro5, 0
5Montag Smith4, 1
5p020990031, 4
5David Grimbleby1, 1, 3
5Lili0, 0, 3, 0, 0, 1, 1
4InfiniteDissent4
4Liam4
4Panda4
4Richard4
4Snake Oil Pussy4
4Drawde9272, 2
4philburton4, 0
4Binra0, 0, 2, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0
3HelenaHancart3
3Paul3
3Proudtobeapeasant3
3redbirdpete3
2AngloWelshDragon2
2djc2
2Ed Phillips2
2EllGee2
2Marvin422
2Questor2
2nottingham691, 1
2TJS1232, 0
2Edward1, 1, 0
2T. Prince1, 0, 0, 1, 0
1Biker1
1EssieSW1
1Gracie Knoll1
1ianric1
1JohnB1
1Mark B1
1Newmill Mark1
1thedarkhorse1
1WhyNow1
1ambwozere1, 0
1Kristian Short1, 0
1hat man0, 1, 0
1stewart0, 0, 1
1Ruth Sharpe0, 0, 1, 0
0Chicot0
0Fiat0
0MRG0
0NorthumbrianNomad0
0tallandbald0
-41John P-22, -19

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