2020-08-14

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/08/14/latest-news-103/
Published2020-08-14T09:58:06
Last updated2020-08-14T09:59:04
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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88760 MDH, replying to MDH, 4, #1 of 1222 🔗

Shall I be mother?

88822 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MDH, 4, #2 of 1222 🔗

Not if you’re a bloke! 🙂

88857 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #3 of 1222 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣

88887 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #4 of 1222 🔗

I can identify any way I wish!

89747 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #5 of 1222 🔗

If you cannot be mother, maybe you could be Prime Minster, we have not got one of those at the moment and desperately need some leadership.

89045 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to MDH, 3, #6 of 1222 🔗

Like The Avengers Mother?

88763 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 57, #7 of 1222 🔗

Johnson’s decision making is appalling and seems to be based on fantasy not fact. He needs to go!

88766 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Alan Billingsley, 52, #8 of 1222 🔗

They all need to go!

88774 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to ambwozere, 55, #9 of 1222 🔗

They all need to be trialled.
In The Hague.

88768 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Alan Billingsley, 39, #10 of 1222 🔗

Johnson is acting as bagman for Bill Gates. Now roll up your sleeve.

88925 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Rowan, 2, #11 of 1222 🔗

According to Dr Vernon Coleman it could be here, have a tomato.

89576 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to richard riewer, #12 of 1222 🔗

You go first.

88923 ▶▶ peter, replying to Alan Billingsley, 22, #13 of 1222 🔗

Incompetence my arse, this is a deliberate controlled demolition of our society. Toby is suffering a severe bout of cognitive dissonance. 😷

89048 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to peter, 1, #14 of 1222 🔗

Or you are? Who to believe? Who? Well, probably not WHO, lol. One potato, two potato, three potato, four… Eenie meenie miny mo…

89165 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to peter, 11, #15 of 1222 🔗

Yes, the supposed incompetence is meant to distract attention away from the substantive introduction of a supranational totalitarian regime, under the cover of a planned and predicted flu like respiratory pandemic.

Nearly all governments have signed up for this fake pandemic shit show and now take their orders from the “great depopulator” and avid vaccinator, Bill Gates, who now controls the WHO.

We are currently living in what make a good plot for a James Bond movie, the difference being, that there is very little prospect of a happy ending.

89452 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to peter, #16 of 1222 🔗

Robert Fripp and the League of Gentlemen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Fs-HnYiWg

89590 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to peter, 4, #17 of 1222 🔗

You can’t explain the rolling quarantine program as anything else except as a deliberate destruction of the mass travel and aviation sector.Zero Carbon anyone ?

89670 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #18 of 1222 🔗

Interesting. though I’m not convinced importing thousands of migrants (and being told we need tens of thousands more, because talented young people in this country are incapable of working in the NHS & financial industry, apparently only migrants travelling in dinghy’s & paddling pools can do that) is congruent with the minimal carbon emissions thing…!

89764 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Not Tiger Woods, 1, #19 of 1222 🔗

Mass immigration is needed to divide the country.Every heard of the kalergi plan.His dream of a brown underclass ruled over by an enlightened technocratic elite.Sounds far fetched until you realise the EU still gives out a honour in his name.Angela Merkel was a recipient recently.Immigration into this country has been running at over 500,000 a year.

88940 ▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Alan Billingsley, 20, #20 of 1222 🔗

Puts the plan in ‘plandemic’ in perspective.
Destabilise society through stacking uncertainty on doubt. Sow confusion through constant rule change. Rinse and repeat till people throw the towel in and blindly obey whatever diktats the commissars issue.

89115 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Digital Nomad, 3, #21 of 1222 🔗

Exactly!

88769 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 81, #22 of 1222 🔗

Which country in Americas has the highest death toll of C-19? US? Brazil? Mexico?

No.Peru.Highest in the world after Belgium and San Marino. But they don’t have an elderly population inside nursing homes? But they have elderly persons living in multigenerational households and more so the poorer you are.
Peru has had one of the most cruel military lockdown in the world. Mask mandate and even face shields extra in Lima Metro.

We know that most C-19 transmission occurs in household.

You don’t need to be an epidemiologist to consider that locking in poor people in multi generational setting could be more prone to transmission and deaths.
The WHO’s one size fit all lockdown has been even worse for poorer countries. Lock down is a killer.

88882 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 17, #23 of 1222 🔗

The trouble is, we’re all shouting into a vacuum of logic and science. We’d be better off handing this over to the apes to rule the planet!

89654 ▶▶▶ Paul Mendelsohn, replying to RickH, 1, #24 of 1222 🔗

Well the monkeys certainly seem to be in charge.

89050 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 9, #25 of 1222 🔗

Remember that when this is over, it is time to demand the defunding of the WHO. If I had my way, I’d sack the UN too, but we ain’t got the punch we used to!

89798 ▶▶ Colin, replying to swedenborg, #26 of 1222 🔗

Peru, may end up with the highest mortality rate, at the moment it’s not.

89875 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Colin, #27 of 1222 🔗

At the moment creeping nearer the world leader Belgium(can’t count San Marino)

88770 tonys, replying to tonys, 65, #28 of 1222 🔗

How often do we see Johnson now? He pops up occasionally on the news to ‘explain’ a policy, but there is precious little sense that he has made the decisions he is defending or that he is really still in charge in any meaningful way. The Prime Minister is a peripheral figure these days, god alone knows who is directing this madness if anyone is.

88776 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to tonys, 13, #29 of 1222 🔗

Watch UK Column. They have some ideas, mostly involving several high-ranking ex-MI6 people ……
https://www.ukcolumn.org/

89735 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #30 of 1222 🔗

Any particular episode of UK column where they explain Johnson’s absence or about these MI6 people? I find UK column raises my stress levels so I try to watch as little as possible..

89975 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, #31 of 1222 🔗

You just need to watch the BBC truth machine and you’ll be alright.

89765 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #32 of 1222 🔗

It’s excellent !

88817 ▶▶ Edward, replying to tonys, 12, #33 of 1222 🔗

Johnson reminds me of the Emperor Caligula, he’s becoming more and more mentally unbalanced. So who’s going to be Cassius Chaerea and who’s going to be Claudius?

88826 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edward, 7, #34 of 1222 🔗

Or Nero – fiddling while Rome burns.

88840 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #35 of 1222 🔗

Hopefully he’ll suffer the same fate as Galba – whose reign lasted less than a year.

88859 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #36 of 1222 🔗

I love it when I’m among people who read the classics 😎

88984 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #37 of 1222 🔗

The last refuge of the truly civilised.p!
But if you aren’t a classics person, just stick a knife into the buggers, we’ll excuse you the quotes.
Et tu, Zombe.

89056 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #38 of 1222 🔗

Like Boris Johnson??

89128 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #39 of 1222 🔗

I’ll get my coat…..

89976 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nick Rose, #40 of 1222 🔗

No I don’t.

88904 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #41 of 1222 🔗

Agree with that and won’t be surprised if that happens.

88947 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Edward, 10, #42 of 1222 🔗

and maybe he will replace Handjob as Minister of Health with a horse. Cant do any worse.

88980 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 7, #43 of 1222 🔗

The horse will probably do a better job

89023 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #44 of 1222 🔗

true = all it needs to do is respond with “neigh” to everything that De pfeffel says

89028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 1, #45 of 1222 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣

89060 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mjr, 2, #46 of 1222 🔗

Horses have bigger brains than rabbits, even rabbits powered by Duracell.

89086 ▶▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to mjr, 2, #47 of 1222 🔗

Jacinta is already busy…

89118 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to tonys, 5, #48 of 1222 🔗

We may as well have a cardboard cut out of him for all the good he is. He’s a puppet there’s no doubt about it, Gates probably has his hand up Bojo’s back pulling the strings.

89736 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #49 of 1222 🔗

What has Boris been promised for going along with all this though?

89978 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, #50 of 1222 🔗

A job with the Gates Foundation?

89263 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to tonys, 1, #51 of 1222 🔗

Isn’t he on holiday, making sandcastles somewhere?
More appropriate than bridges anyway!

88772 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 17, #52 of 1222 🔗

Someone posted a link yesterday to a brilliant youtube video regarding the notion of a casedemic. This is what we are in now. The video described previous casedemics, e.g. the panic re swine flu, and how PCR testing creates casedemics.
I’d like to suggest that we try to get this word – CASEDEMIC – out into the media, as it’s a good one word summary of what is now going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU3OibcindQ

Anyone here have the wherewithal to make T-shirts, badges, caps etc with just the word CASEDEMIC on them?

89058 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Aremen, 4, #53 of 1222 🔗

It was me. Ivor Cummins has been brilliant through this whole thing. I, too, love the term casedemic as that’s what we are suffering through at the moment.

89277 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, #54 of 1222 🔗

Brilliant video. Thanks.

88773 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #55 of 1222 🔗

The government has quietly removed 1.3m coronavirus tests from its data because of double counting, raising fresh questions about the accuracy of the testing figures.

In the government’s daily coronavirus update on Wednesday, it announced ……. The adjustments have been made as a result of more accurate data collection and reporting processes recently being adopted within pillar 2.”
The Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) said the changes affected data reported between 14 May and 12 August. …… The problem was acknowledged by the DHSC on 6 July but the tests were removed from the data on 12 August.

….. Allyson Pollock, a clinical professor of public health at Newcastle University, said: “The government needs to make clear what they mean by an adjustment and why the change has taken place. There are also big questions that should be asked about the Randox contract, and the one with Deloitte is still not published, we should really press for that.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/14/government-quietly-drops-13m-covid-tests-from-england-tally

88829 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 16, #56 of 1222 🔗

At the bottom of article they’re still bragging about how we’ve built capacity to test 300,000 a day, without ever stopping to ask themselves why or if we even _should_… when will they wake up to the farce of mass testing (at huge huge cost to us taxpayers) healthy people. It’s another scandal yet to be caught up with by our wonderful Media outlets – no surprise there either.

88868 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cheezilla, 25, #57 of 1222 🔗

All the Covid-19 data is bullshit, every last bit of it. And yet still the oppressive policies driven by this continue to intensify, almost daily, worldwide.

Is there going to be a tipping point at which the sheer scale of the lies causes the whole house of cards to collapse, or are we indeed living in a “post-fact” world where truth is meaningless?

88892 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard O, 22, #58 of 1222 🔗

I feel your latter grim diagnosis is the case.

I’ve mentioned that I’ve spent a fair time sitting around in hospitals this week. Watching masked medical staff jumping through directional, distance and mask hoops is truly worrying – because these are people who, by and large, I know through experience to be good at there pretty complex jobs, but who have been imposed upon to perform this Scary Fairy dance, against all scientific evidence and, indeed (in the case of masks) against fundamental medical ethics.

The BMA has been shocking in its response to this fakedemic.

88928 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to RickH, 14, #59 of 1222 🔗

Agreed, all our institutions have utterly failed us. I can’t think of any organisation that has performed anything but atrociously throughout. But then we should have already known that our society was fundamentally broken and rotten to the core before this. Perhaps this is the lesson that we all deserved.

89019 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, 6, #60 of 1222 🔗

Those Common Purpose dudes have performed pretty well.

89079 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 6, #61 of 1222 🔗

Indeed. We need a new Establishment, a new public sector, and new politicians.

89077 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 9, #62 of 1222 🔗

We’ve been a post-truth society for some time now. Hysterias such as man-made global warming (I’m old enough to remember the hysteria over man-made global cooling and the coming ice age) are growing more common.

However, there is always a tipping point. I knew a revolutionary Communist in the early 80’s who always cheered on Margaret Thatcher. His reasoning was that the more people who lost their livelihoods and could no longer afford their cars, colour TVs or fitted carpets, the more would turn to his way of thinking. If people kept all those things, no revolution could ever take place.

I understood his logic but, unfortunately for him, he had a crystal ball made by the same company that made crystal balls for all the other prophets.

But there is definitely a tipping point…

89607 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard O, 2, #63 of 1222 🔗

“or are we indeed living in a “post-fact” world where truth is meaningless?”

The lies will undoubtedly keep ramping up, but it’s unlikely the sheeple will ever notice, or even care if they do.

All too soon, they will be lining up, masked and two metres apart, feeling so lucky, while waiting for a shot of Uncle Bill’s toxic special brew.

We are so totally fcuked.

89227 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #64 of 1222 🔗

There’s no need to believe any one thing the UK Government says about testing. Casedemic, as someone called it above, is about inflated case numbers being used in the same was as the bogus death toll was. The article linked to below is old, but it shows how the goal posts have changed. In its last report, ICNARC said there were about 300 people in ICUs in England, Wales and Northern Ireland with Covid-19.

The Covid-19 death toll is for abusing the deranged masses; it’s the other data that’s important
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/03/the-covid-19-death-toll-is-for-abusing-the-deranged-masses-its-the-other-data-thats-important/

88780 smurfs, replying to smurfs, 52, #65 of 1222 🔗

Anyone know where I can buy a yellow t-shirt with Vernon Coleman’s mantra printed on it, as per this pic from twatter

88790 ▶▶ Aremen, replying to smurfs, 16, #66 of 1222 🔗

I suggested something similar a few days ago, which got a few upvotes, which I think would work well on T-shirts, badges or caps, or even, as the government has kindly afforded us advertising space by their “law”, printed on plain white face masks using the government’s dashed lines design:
STAY AFRAID CONTROL THE PEOPLE SAVE BORIS

88847 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Aremen, 4, #67 of 1222 🔗

up-ticks are easy peasy – its action thats the difficult bit

88848 ▶▶ Simon, replying to smurfs, 3, #68 of 1222 🔗
88861 ▶▶▶ smurfs, replying to Simon, 3, #69 of 1222 🔗

Thanks, I came across that site but choice was limited unfortunately.

There are many online websites where you can design your own t-shirt but what I don’t have is the text and chevron border in a suitable graphic to upload.

Are there and graphic designers amongst us willing to create the graphic in a suitable format for those of us who want to print it on a choice of merchandise – t-shirts, caps etc.?.

88886 ▶▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to smurfs, 5, #70 of 1222 🔗

Here you go….

88888 ▶▶▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to tallandbald, 1, #71 of 1222 🔗

It is high res. It has been compressed on here automatically.

88971 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to smurfs, 1, #72 of 1222 🔗

I prefer this one. Great.

89689 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to smurfs, #73 of 1222 🔗

I’ve given up looking for this t-shirt but did discover you can order one-off t-shirts online and provide your own artwork. So what I have done is reproduce the UK gov propaganda design with Vernon’s mantra using my limited tech/design skills.

There are numerous free online file converters if you need to convert the attached png file to another file format e.g. jpg.

This pic has the yellow background and the one that follows a transparent background.

You are free to use them as you wish.

89691 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to smurfs, #75 of 1222 🔗

Transparent background pic.

88783 kf99, replying to kf99, 14, #76 of 1222 🔗

The only good news is crowds back at the snooker this weekend. Not really about snooker, this is a test for reopening theatres in general. They’re aiming for about 300 in the 900-seater Crucible. Masks don’t have to be worn once you’re in your seat.

88797 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to kf99, 11, #77 of 1222 🔗

What? Masks don’t have to be worn in seats? Does that mean people in church under similar circumstances can take them off as well?

88802 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ed Phillips, 27, #78 of 1222 🔗

Covie is very clever. He knows he can infect you in church but he can’t in a theatre once you’ve reached your seat.

88805 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #79 of 1222 🔗

Once again I’m having very unChristian thoughts about our authorities.

89674 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #80 of 1222 🔗

Better than very clever…according to David Lammy, the virus also appears to be blatantly racist, but instantaneously can distinguish anti-racism protestors from other crowds such as those congregating for a football match.

88816 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Ed Phillips, 8, #81 of 1222 🔗

If masks prevent droplets presumably you are allowed to sing if you have a mask on… A subtle addition to the recent exemptions – those leading prayers (and presumably bible readings etc) are now exempt from the sillyness. Still weighing up whether I really want to attend our first post lockdown service next week.

88832 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to davews, 26, #82 of 1222 🔗

The singing thing is guidance. Your church should ignore it as mine does. We have adapted how often we sing but we’ve been open for 6 weeks with no problems.
Our church has said that anyone not wearing a mask is presumed to be exempt and will no-one will ask you about it.
Dave, you must go to church. When you are there all the worries will melt away and you’ll enjoy being among brothers and sisters. It’s absolutely vital that we begin meeting together.

88901 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ed Phillips, 12, #83 of 1222 🔗

As a non church-goer, I congratulate your members on sticking to sanity.

It should be a marker for all social groups – a great big figurative V-sign

89569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to RickH, 2, #84 of 1222 🔗

I agree 100%
Congregate and celebrate!

88989 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ed Phillips, 6, #85 of 1222 🔗

You SING?
God bless you!

89146 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to annie, 8, #86 of 1222 🔗

Of course. We have a higher authority that commands us to.

89475 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #87 of 1222 🔗

I absolutely love this comment and I think you’re right, many of us (whatever our spiritual belief system) have a higher calling that this nonsense.

89471 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #88 of 1222 🔗

I mentioned your comment to my OH who is a member of a COE church. He said you definitely aren’t COE or even Methodist but he thinks you’re pentecostal or something … would you mind telling me what strand of Christianity your church is because I think he’d really like to take it up with his own COE church – closed pretty much since March.

90427 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Alison9, 1, #89 of 1222 🔗

You’re right that I’m not an Anglican or Methodist. But I’m not a Pentecostal.
Presbyterian. In England.
Opening takes some effort what with doing a risk assessment and arranging the building but it has to be done. Our church found that just over 60% of the regulars were ready to come back and we’ve had a family come whose church is still closed join us. Overwhelmingly positive.

89082 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ed Phillips, 5, #90 of 1222 🔗

Covie likes religious people, but is scared of the noise snooker balls make.

88806 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to kf99, 3, #91 of 1222 🔗

Implies you need them at all points except when sitting. Madness.

88809 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 12, #92 of 1222 🔗

Because you don’t breathe when you’re sitting down.

88784 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 11, #93 of 1222 🔗

Poor Aruba at the top of the list -looks dreadful – but total number of deaths there- 3! What is all this nonsense over number of cases

88827 ▶▶ davews, replying to Alan Billingsley, 3, #94 of 1222 🔗

‘Cases per 100,000’. But the population of the whole of Aruba is only just over 100,000.

88907 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Alan Billingsley, 2, #95 of 1222 🔗

Well – if you think about it rationally (a rare skill these days) – it’s absolute proof about what we’ve been saying about the nonsense of the ‘case’ definition.

Quite good news really.

89145 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 3, #96 of 1222 🔗

It’s only good news if government see sense, but it seems they are determined not to.

88785 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 42, #97 of 1222 🔗

Been annoying people on the Daily mail website in the comments section about Boris and the increase in fines for repeat non-mask offenders.

Lots of pro-mask comments so put in my tuppence with quotes from the studies that proved they are either useless or negligible at protecting people.

Lots of down votes so posted a few more quotes and so on increasing the numbers of down votes.

I count every down vote to a fact as a point won and a little bit of annoyance to the trolls, sheeple and 77th/13th warriors trying to direct the debate.

88791 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 19, #98 of 1222 🔗

Good for you! And thanks from all of us for wading through the cesspit of DM comments for the benefit of The Cause!

88878 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #99 of 1222 🔗

Unfortunately the Daily Lie Machine uses bots in its comments section, so the “votes” are pretty well meaningless.

A bit like in our “democracy”, then.

89110 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Simon Dutton, #100 of 1222 🔗

How so? Are comments generated by bots or votes? I ask because I also haunt the DM comments section and have seen lots of posts that look like they’re posted by bots. And the swing to anti-lockdown has been quite interesting – and I’d struggle to know why the DM would use bots to upvote anti-lockdown comments.

89290 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, #101 of 1222 🔗

Maybe the more the bots post pro-lockdown, the more the real people refute them. Could actually be helping The Cause now. How ironic!

89365 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #102 of 1222 🔗

AFAIK the comments are posted by humans (whether readers or employees), but the scores are certainly subject to manipulation. It’s hard to see because the controversial comments sections fill up so quickly, but a comment can have many hundreds of votes removed or added within a very short space of time. In some cases a comment that is only 2-3 minutes old can even accrue thousands of up-votes.

89094 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Awkward Git, 16, #103 of 1222 🔗

I monitor the daily mail comments regularly to get a sense of general opinions on things outside my normal social circle (and to er get some sleb gossip). I noticed that early on in the year (March) they were very much supportive of lockdown and anyone who dissented was torn to pieces.

The situation started to change in May and now I would say that the vast majority of top ranked comments are highly lockdown sceptic. It’s been a remarkable swing in opinion. They’re not especially well informed (so thank you to awkward git for educating them) but really the view on masks and whatever is increasingly aligned with here. The government should really look at this. The tone is getting increasingly belligerent and dissent is brewing. It’s rather encouraging from my perspective….not if you are Boris though.

The only thing that raises more ire than lockdown with the DM readers are the immigrants coming across the channel. Especially now that anyone else coming from France will have to quarantine.

89247 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #104 of 1222 🔗

You can bet the farm those commenters are going to be PR operatives.
Don’t forget to remind the 77th Brigade at every opportunity that they must go to jail.

http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/06/the-77th-brigade-must-go-to-jail-part-one/

88788 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 14, #105 of 1222 🔗

May be of interest – my letter published today in British Medical Journal Rapid Responses:

Re: We can change practice—can we also change culture? Re: We can change practice—can we also change culture? Fiona Godlee. 364:doi 10.1136/bmj.l108
Dear Editor
This has been a most instructive correspondence [1] and doctors may in the near future have to consider what rational advice they can give to members of the pubic regarding a plethora of new products just a few months in development, some involving entirely new technologies. Reuter’s recently reported the words of a Trump administration official [2] :
“The fine line we are walking is getting the American people very excited about vaccines and missing expectations versus having a bunch of vaccines in the warehouse and not as many people want to get it…You may not hear a lot about promoting vaccines over the airwaves in August and September but you’ll be overwhelmed by it come November.”
The danger is, of course, that health policy is being driven for political ends and we may be about to see the first vaccine election. Also, being “excited” is no way to approach Informed Consent (supposing the vaccines are not mandated).
Likewise, in a recent House of Commons answer [5 August], Jo Churchill, Parliamentary Under Secretary for Health and Social Care told Scottish National Party Member Allan Dorans [3]:
“It is vital that a significant proportion of people who are offered take up a COVID-19 vaccine in order to protect themselves as well as other vulnerable individuals. However, there are no plans at present for a COVID-19 vaccine to be mandatory as the Government operates a system of informed consent for vaccinations.”
It is interesting that the minister states this without knowing either how the disease will develop or even the limited safety and effectiveness profiles we are likely to have for any of the products if by any chance any are licensed in time to make any difference (which should not be assumed). Meantime, while the assurance about retaining Informed Consent will be hugely welcome to a lot of people it should also be noted that offering a choice to the public is one means by which the British government might escape direct liability for potential harm.
[1] Responses to Fiona Godlee, ‘We can change practice—can we also change culture?’, https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l108/rapid-responses
[2] Carl O’Donnell, ‘ U.S. government to launch ‘overwhelming’ COVID-19 vaccine campaign by November’ Reuter’s 30 July 2020,
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump-vaccine-idUS
[3] https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2020-07-09.71891.h&s=c

88876 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to John Stone, 7, #106 of 1222 🔗

However, there are no plans at present for a COVID-19 vaccine to be mandatory as the Government operates a system of informed consent for vaccinations.”

Yeah right!

GPs are incentivised to ensure a large uptake of vaccines

From April 2021 there will also be incentive payments for achieving specified levels of vaccination coverage that will be paid via the QOF. A new vaccination domain will be added to the framework to ‘reward incremental improvements in performance’.

Practices will be paid a standardised item of service fee of £10.06 for each dose of the routine vaccinations that they administer.

Under the new system, practices that fail to reach 80% coverage will have to pay back a proportion of the item of service fees that they have received on an annual basis.

it would be a ‘huge success’ if no practice was required to repay money in 2021/22 because they had all hit at least 80% coverage.

Practices will also be expected to participate in catch-up campaigns.

The contract also sets out a range of core standards relating to vaccinations that practices should meet, covering availability of appointments, call and recall procedures and record keeping .

https://www.gponline.com/biggest-overhaul-gp-vaccination-payments-30-years-new-gp-contract/article/1673383

88881 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Victoria, 8, #107 of 1222 🔗

That whirring noise you hear is Hippocrates spinning in his grave.

88914 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Simon Dutton, 7, #108 of 1222 🔗

.. to the sound of a very old word :

“CORRUPTION”

89088 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 8, #109 of 1222 🔗

Doctors have been little more than drugs pushers for a good few years now.

89139 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ drrobin, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #110 of 1222 🔗

Vernon Coleman has written much on this (albeit he has some other views a disagree with). Nice to see his name and views mentioned increasingly.

89485 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Nick Rose, #111 of 1222 🔗

It’s sad to say it but you’re right!

88919 ▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Victoria, 4, #112 of 1222 🔗

It might be an interesting legal point that they exercise the carrot and stick coercion on GPs and claim Informed Consent is operative. In fact, no one in their right mind would agree to many of the products if they just had the risks listed in the Patient Information Leaflet as they have legal right under the Montgomery ruling of 2015 (which government perpetually ducks). Who, for example, would give their baby three doses of Bexsero Men B vaccine if they read the PIL and found there was a 3 in 1000 risk of them developing Kawasaki disease?

89408 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to John Stone, #114 of 1222 🔗

Thanks for that information.That is really a high risk of side effects of the vaccine for a still, rare disease Men B. Must be too high risk of side effects for such a rare disease.

89433 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to swedenborg, #115 of 1222 🔗

But then how sure are we that K syndrome isnt a flare up , common to both vaccine and wild virus infection, which is commoner than perhaps previously recognised? there’s a US paper I will try to find, looking at it in relation to CV19, which seemed to bear this out.

89890 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Bruno, #116 of 1222 🔗

I think KD should be reportable – we don’t know what’s happening with it. The government always sites meaningless out of date data about rates but parents need to be seriously alert to recognising signs (particularly after vaccination).

89085 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to John Stone, 1, #117 of 1222 🔗

You seem to have been following this, I wonder what you make of the fascinating treasure trove of emails linked to in Swedenborg’s post below between Anders Tegnell and colleagues in Sweden, Finland etc? What about, for instance:

‘Corona virus has an unfortunate property that gives antibody dependent enhancement (which you can google on if you do not know about it). That is, antibodies do not protect against infection but help the virus enter the cells instead where it can multiply. This is the reason why they did not succeed in creating a vaccine against SARS (SARS-cov-1). It was found that a low concentration of antibodies was not protective but instead helped the virus into the cells. Cecilia’s email shows that it was the same with the vaccine they tried to create against bovine corona. I really hope that you think about it here when you try to develop a vaccine against covid-19. I’m sure you can get around the problem.
But you unaware flock immunity zealots should have it clear to you that this can be a huge problem in Sweden. Antibodies to covid-19 decrease over time. A low concentration of antibodies helps the virus to protect itself. There is thus a very real risk that in the next few years Sweden will have a high number of younger people and children who fall ill with severe covid-19 and die or are injured for life. Since it has been known since 2003 that corona virus has this characteristic, FHM should have used the precautionary principle and made sure that as few people as possible became infected.’

I used Google translate at the top RHS of screen, it works on the text of the articles and the comments but not on the text of the emails themselves.Where’s Carrie when you need her?!

89399 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Sylvie, 1, #118 of 1222 🔗

This is just one virological opinion.There are many others that antibody level itself not so important instead T cells and a new exposure of the virus would lead to a massive increase of antibodies to stop the virus.Other corona viruses has not shown this pattern. This virological opinion is based upon the concept of dengue fever where second exposure can be delterious and problems with dengue vaccine.So there are different opinions and not being a virologist these is just a crude description.But this is much more complex now with the T cells response maybe of more importance than antibodies.
But this was a frank discussion between scientists but a leked e mail with a sentences above would of course be useful and welcome for Project Fear

89421 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to swedenborg, 1, #119 of 1222 🔗

Exactly. I thought it was worth drawing to the attention of J Stone who appears to be someone interested in vaccine/autism.
It’s difficult without being able to read the actual emails, but from what you said, it sounds like Tegnell and others were saying what any commonsense person here might. (I speculated a while back that our best strategy would be chickenpox style parties (held in my youth) for the younger ones, lots of social contact for the teens and 20s, normal life to 70, more care thereafter.)
The timeline is very interesting, seems UK were blown off course in the fortnight up to our lockdown. I can see decision making in an international hub country 6 times the size of Sweden is harder, too. Prolongation of our lockdown beyond 1 June is my personal gripe.

89450 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Bruno, 1, #120 of 1222 🔗

I am not a virologist but even with industry’s very low standards it is beyond credibility that there could be a safe product any time soon. If something has only been tested for weeks or months what can we possibly know about the long term effects? If it is only semi-effective that in itself makes it a hazard. Meanwhile, the government presses on with the flu vaccine programme without having researched the real possibility that it could increase COVID susceptibility.

89709 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #121 of 1222 🔗

Yes it is just one opinion, and as I just wrote to Sylvie, if cv19 really is a new coronavirus, how could they have known so long ago that the antibodies decrease over time?

89624 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sylvie, 1, #122 of 1222 🔗

Historically coronavirus vaccines have shown issues with enhancement. Some people have believed the reason might be antibody dependent enhancement or ADE. This is where the antibodies are sticking to the wrong part of the virus and end up helping them infect cells, sometimes other cells, or causing other issues. It happens with Dengue as swedenborg says.

But I don’t think this was the reason for the enhancement with the coronavirus vaccines.

This paper investigated in detail the problems with SARS1 vaccines:

https://doi.org/10.1172/jci.insight.123158

They found that the antibodies induced by the vaccine worked in the sense that those monkeys cleared the virus. SARS1 patients who died also had lots of neutralizing antibodies and cleared the virus. But then they had a lot of lung inflammation which is what killed them (this is often called “the cytokine storm” these days).

There was some evidence in that paper (and in earlier work done on the RSV vaccine which had a similar problem) that the problem was that the vaccine resulted in a “Th2” dominated response, which basically means biased towards antibodies and away from killer T cells.

It’s not so much that the killer T cells are necessarily helping all that much with actually clearing the virus as something to do with the “good” cytokines they’re producing (like interferon gamma) which seem to generally result in the immune system behaving itself better for this kind of disease. And it’s not that the antibodies themselves were bad, it was just the associated cytokines going haywire and resulting in uncontrolled inflammation.

This is the link to the RSV paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2593094/

The RSV vaccine was an “inactivated whole virus”. You get an actual virus, culture it, and then kill it with some chemical so it can’t replicate. You inject it and people get antibodies without getting (very) ill. Great. But because it’s dead it’s not actually getting transcribed inside cells so it isn’t waking up the killer T cell response in the same way. Antibodies are for dealing with nasty things outside cells, killer T cells are for things that have actually infected them (or started inside them like cancer).

This is where newer designs of vaccine come in, like the Oxford one and the Russian one (which are vectored RNA vaccines) and the Moderna one (which is just RNA on its own basically). With these the vaccine itself does not contain any of the SARS2 antigen. It instead gets into your cells where your own enzymes follow the RNA code and make the spike antigens. They can’t reproduce so you won’t die but it is a much better simulation of a real SARS2 infection. In the ChAdOx1 test on monkeys they found very encouraging signs that the response was not Th2-dominated:

https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.05.13.093195

“Importantly, we did not see any evidence of immune-enhanced disease in
vaccinated animals. The immune response was not skewed towards a Th2 response in mice nor in NHPs [non-human primates i.e. monkeys], there was no increase in clinical signs or virus replication throughout the study in vaccinated NHPs compared to controls and no markers of disease enhancement in lung tissue of NHPs, such as an influx of neutrophils were observed.”

89629 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, 1, #123 of 1222 🔗

Continuation as I have gone on too long and exceeded the limit for a comment:

One of the leading Chinese vaccines on the other hand, is a good old fashioned inactivated whole virus, you know, the kind that’s usually really bad for coronaviruses. This is what they wrote in their paper ( https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.04.17.046375 ):

No antibody-dependent enhancement of infection (ADE) was observed for any vaccinated macaques despite the observation that relatively low NAb titer existed within the medium dose group before infection, offering partial protection.

Right. But to be honest we weren’t really expecting ADE. Th2-dominance is more likely the cause of the problem. Anyway they reckoned that was also fine and went on to remark:

The serious pandemic of the current COVID19 and the precipitously increasing numbers of death worldwide necessitate the urgent development of a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, requiring a new pandemic paradigm.

If I was going to have either vaccine I’d take the Oxford one. But I think it’s sensible to wait a couple of years and then assess the risk again. I’m unlikely to die of Covid in that time.

There was some speculation early on in the literature that cross-immunity from other HCoVs might be making SARS2 worse, because of rumours around ADE. But there has since been a lot more evidence that that isn’t the case– that in fact it makes it much better. This should be the default assumption anyway, as cross-immunity is usually beneficial and the situation you get with Dengue is the exception rather than the rule.

If a natural SARS2 infection resulted in reinfection with ADE after antibody levels dropped as this person seems to be speculating, we would have seen that by now, as millions of people who were infected now have low levels of antibodies. It would have been very bad luck if SARS2 had had this property when it doesn’t happen with any of the other HCoVs (or even any other virus as far as I know if we’re talking about being reinfected with the same strain).

89685 ▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to guy153, #124 of 1222 🔗

If I was going to have either vaccine I’d take the Oxford one…” personally I’d be a little worried about that, after an Oxford professor said recently they were concerned about developing a successful vaccine, on the grounds it might not be diverse enough.

89710 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Not Tiger Woods, 1, #125 of 1222 🔗

Will anybody really get a choice in which vaccine they get?

89774 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Carrie, #126 of 1222 🔗

There is going to be a surreal range, by no means equivalent.

89924 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to Not Tiger Woods, 1, #127 of 1222 🔗

I don’t see how any of these products can be ethically licensed as either safe or effective on the timescales proposed – then they want to give them to billions of people despite the fact they haven’t properly been tested. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister prattles on about “brilliant scientists” and being “all out” to find a vaccine (Express today) like a rather tongue-tied Royal.

89776 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to guy153, 1, #128 of 1222 🔗

Also, this is to miss the point of the entire criminal episode. Everyone should have gone back to work many weeks ago but we are being strung along so we can all be rescued by these wonderful products long after the effects of the disease have dwindled. It’s the biggest racket the globe has ever seen.

89826 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to John Stone, 1, #129 of 1222 🔗

Yes the vaccine story in no way justifies the ridiculous overreactions and all the harm those have done and are still doing.

It is likely that SARS2 will come back every few years and having a vaccine to add to the collection of flu vaccines we use might be beneficial. But there is no reason to panic and rush it out early.

89859 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 2, #130 of 1222 🔗

Many thanks for your excellent reply.Once again expain it clearly and easy to follow.

89945 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #131 of 1222 🔗

Many thanks for this! So much exciting research to come, too. Never having had flu in my life, nor taken that vaccination till recently, I doubt I’d bother with this one.
I wonder also about individual susceptibility to these things. Anecdotally, one of my parents and one of my children share a striking inflammatory response to challenge, both natural (bee stings, mosquito bites), and to vaccination (no lasting ill effects). Perhaps a more effective response to CV19 lies in early diagnosis and effective treatment, rather than mass vaccination.
Today, 15 August, thinking of my father, who had dengue, malaria, dysentery, and cholera in the camps along the Death Railway, I do wonder whether all the effort and money going into relatively insignificant respiratory viruses is worthwhile. Some, certainly; but clean water and better sewage treatment worldwide seems a higher priority. (Maybe less air pollution too, for the good of the lungs. I notice the smell of cars all the time now, it having been so low for 4 months.)

89773 ▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to guy153, 1, #132 of 1222 🔗

Yes, but the vaccine neither prevented the animals catching the disease or presumably spreading it – this fact was suppressed until weeks into the human testing. A New York Times report in April said they had shown no signs of the disease:

“Scientists at the National Institutes of Health’s Rocky Mountain Laboratory in Montana last month inoculated six rhesus macaque monkeys with single doses of the Oxford vaccine. The animals were then exposed to heavy quantities of the virus that is causing the pandemic — exposure that had consistently sickened other monkeys in the lab. But more than 28 days later all six were healthy, said Vincent Munster, the researcher who conducted the test.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/world/europe/coronavirus-vaccine-update-oxford.html

This story was contradicted three weeks later:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8331709/Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-does-not-stop-infection-experts-warn.html

Meanwhile, billions of our money is being sunk into this product.

89829 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to John Stone, #133 of 1222 🔗

They gave the monkeys a huge dose of the actual virus so it’s not that surprising that they didn’t get complete protection from the vaccine. It probably makes a better test this way as well. If you give them a realistic viral load the antibodies might mean they hardly get infected at all and then you risk not shaking out any of the enhancement issues you’re looking for.

I think the biggest concern is still enhancement. There are encouraging signs why it should be OK, but although there are theories nobody really got to the bottom of what was going on and questions remain. What if you only start to get problems in patients who are more vulnerable anyway, a few months after the vaccine when antibody levels have dropped a bit? We’re not going to know that if we rush something out this autumn.

89861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to guy153, 1, #134 of 1222 🔗

I agree that they had to give the monkeys a substantial dose of the disease but I don’t believe they were happy with the result otherwise there would not have been the fake report in April. Or did they just lie in order to launch the next phase? You are right that there are serious practical/ethical implications – we were discussing earlier in the BMJ correspondence that children were being given nasal flu vaccine not to protect themselves but to protect their grandparents, which did not make sense because the PIL warned that the recipients should avoid contact with the immunocompromised! Perhaps, the real purpose then was simply to unload loads of products on the public at its own expense without practical rhyme or reason.

https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l108/rapid-responses

89918 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to John Stone, #135 of 1222 🔗

Yes I think they were hoping for higher antibody levels. This may be why in the human trials they gave everyone the maximum dose of the vaccine, to make sure that the antibody numbers looked good. But I think there’s good reason to think that a “Th1-dominated” response (which means fewer antibodies and more killer T) may actually be better.

They really need to just give everyone the facts and let them make their own decisions. This is probably going to become a big issue very soon when they do start rushing these vaccines out.

Thinking about that arrogant idiot Olsen some more, natural immunity has just been trialled on millions of people worldwide in the last 8 months or so and so far it seems to be working pretty well. And she wants to put more trust in the immunity from a vaccine that has only been tried (with a challenge) on about 8 monkeys?

People need to balance what is now a very well-known risk level from the disease with a theoretically smaller but much more unknown risk from the vaccines.

89949 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Stone, replying to guy153, #136 of 1222 🔗

I think people are unlikely to be adequately protected against making poor decisions by the licensing process, given commercial and political pressures. I, for example, take supplements like Vitamin C, D, zinc etc which protect against all infectious disease (and contra government experts don’t need to be trialed against COVID) but once we have all these new products it really will be roulette even if they are tested a few weeks longer than Sputnik5. If I have any choice at all I am unlikely to be persuaded to take any one of these products but I fear what it all might mean on a population level. Of course, the disease itself is only a relative known given all the background noise surrounding and it is also quite likely that it will retreat into harmlessness anyway.

89705 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sylvie, #137 of 1222 🔗

Sorry – only just seen this!
Interested in the part about antibodies to covid19 decreasing over time – presumably these are ‘old’ emails, so how did they know this so long ago???

89821 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Carrie, 1, #138 of 1222 🔗

Antibodies always decrease over time (at a somewhat slow rate for IgG). It was reported in the media like it was some special new feature of Covid that was going to result in carnage, whereas in fact it was good news: it meant that more people had been infected than their tests showed and we were closer to herd immunity.

89848 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sylvie, #139 of 1222 🔗

Just looked at that email thread in more detail. I was too busy wanting to refute it that I started on my reply without noticing that somebody called Erik had already done a great job shutting down this frightful Mikaela Olsen character.

Her email appears to be dated August 14, which is yesterday! She should have known better. She’s arguing for the “precautionary principle” but seems to take it on faith that natural immunity will somehow cause enhancement but vaccines won’t. All the evidence is the other way around.

Erik points out patiently that the UCL study showed that children, who evidently don’t get worse disease have the most cross-immunity. So antibodies probably aren’t toxic after all. He also gives a good explanation of the vaccine situation. Then, apparently regretting his decision to treat her with more politeness than she deserves, sends another reply an hour later calling her arrogant and stupid. She calls him a racist and it goes downhill from there.

88789 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #140 of 1222 🔗

We’ve just plunged into the start of a severe economic depression (despite what the MSM are calling it) and here are our esteemed leaders playing silly political games. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns!

Boris Johnson will stamp major schemes in Scotland that are paid for directly by the UK Government with a Union flag from next year, The Telegraph can reveal.
The flag will replace the European Union symbol, which has been used to denote when a bridge or road has been directly funded by Brussels.

The idea has been backed by the new Scottish Conservative leader, Douglas Ross , who said Tories north of the border needed to be “unashamed of our investment in Scotland”.

But it was greeted with dismay by senior SNP politicians, with one accusing Mr Johnson’s Government of “posturing of the worst order” and “trying to force the union flag down people’s throats”.

The Union flag will be used to highlight when UK central Government money has been spent in Scotland. It will not apply to Scottish government spending, even though a proportion of that derives from an annual block grant from London.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/13/boris-johnson-stamp-major-scottish-projects-funded-uk-government/

89092 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #141 of 1222 🔗

That’s been in the pipeline for some time. Especially given that EU contributions are usually the smallest between UK, Scottish Executive and EU, yet two flags appear on the boards, but one does not. This one has my support.

88795 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #142 of 1222 🔗

Apologies if covered before. Who is he to be talking like this –

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-bill-gates-covid-vaccine/

Bloomberg: How confident are you we’ll have a working vaccine that can be widely distributed by the end of 2020?
Gates: Well, the initial vaccine won’t be ideal in terms of its effectiveness against sickness and transmission. It may not have a long duration, and it will mainly be used in rich countries as a stopgap measure.

We’d be lucky to have much before the end of the year. But then, in 2021, a number of other vaccines are very likely to get approved. The strongest response will probably come from the protein subunit. With so many companies working on it, we can afford quite a few failures and still have something with low cost and long duration.
[…]
For years, people have said if anti-vaxxers had lived through a pandemic, the way their grandparents did, they’d think differently. Whoops.
The two times I’ve been to the White House [since 2016], I was told I had to go listen to anti-vaxxers like Robert Kennedy Jr. So, yes, it’s ironic that people are questioning vaccines and we’re actually having to say, “Oh, my God, how else can you get out of a tragic pandemic?”

Bloomberg: Given the skepticism, should a Covid vaccine be mandatory?
Gates: Making something mandatory can often backfire. But you might say that if you’re going to work in an old-folks home or have any exposure to elderly people, it would be required.
[…]
Bloomberg: How do you think this all ends?
Gates: The innovations in therapeutics will start to cut the death rate, but the true end will come from the spread of natural infections and the vaccine giving us herd immunity. For rich countries, that will be sometime next year, ideally in the first half. We’ll get out of this by the end of 2021.

Bloomberg: So we’re going to be OK?
Gates: Certainly. We’re lucky this one wasn’t a more fatal disease.

There are 6 vaccines being worked on for UK alone. Yet Gates talks as he does. Acutally it’s a written interview so the words are attributed to him – indeed the questions are attributed to Bloomberg.

88823 ▶▶ davews, replying to Basics, 17, #143 of 1222 🔗

I am not fundamentally against vaccines. But share the views of many, I don’t want a medically under-tested shot against something I don’t think I am at risk of in the first place. It will be interesting how they handle the flu vaccine this year at our surgery – normally just a turn up and get it clinic but with the front gate still firmly locked who knows…

88854 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to davews, 10, #144 of 1222 🔗

It is not just about this vaccine – it is about the principle of mandating all vaccines

88969 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 7, #145 of 1222 🔗

It’s about both. The Mengele Society needs to be opposed.

88865 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to davews, 6, #146 of 1222 🔗

I’m not fundamentally against surgery but I am totally against FGM!

89581 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to davews, 4, #147 of 1222 🔗

I don’t have children and will never be a father so it’s not my issue whether parents vaxx their kids or not. Not my business at all.
I will fight to the death for my freedom to not have a syringe jammed in my arm for this particular cold virus. My preventive medicine is about diet, exercise and tapping into the power of the mind. My immune system doesn’t need help from a for-profit multinational drug company thank you very much!

89714 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 3, #148 of 1222 🔗

It would have been interesting if the interviewer had asked Gates which of the vaccines he would be taking!!!

89715 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Carrie, 1, #149 of 1222 🔗

Gates’ doctor said (some years ago, I believe) he did now allow his children to be vaccinated.

89717 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Not Tiger Woods, 2, #150 of 1222 🔗

I know! But it would have been good to see Gates try and wriggle out of answering the question!

88800 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #151 of 1222 🔗

What is it about Public Health Chiefs?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/13/eat-out-scheme-muddles-covid-messaging-says-leicester-health-chief

The public health chief managing the Covid outbreak in Leicester has raised concerns over the government’s “eat out to help out” scheme and called for more localised testing and tracing.
Prof Ivan Browne, the director of public health at Leicester city council, said the messaging around Covid-19 needed to be clearer, given the potential for the infection rate to take off once more.
“This has not gone away, it is still here,” he said at an online event hosted by the Royal Society of Medicine.” “I have huge issues with things like eat out to help out. I understand the economic issue of it, but when I am walking up my road and I am seeing people queuing up, it is a concern.
“We have just got to get a very clear narrative of where we are, be in control, be cautious, make sure that we are not giving this virus the opportunity to pass on – because it will.”

We can’t blame de Piffle and Poppycock while idiots like this are in charge on the ground – and there are a lot of them about!

88852 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 19, #152 of 1222 🔗

NEVER EVER do a Covid-19 test (the test is unreliable and many false positives).

Want a lockdown

get a Test

88879 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Victoria, 7, #153 of 1222 🔗

Hear, hear!!

89716 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 2, #154 of 1222 🔗

That little slogan – ‘want a lockdown – get a test’ is something we should be sticking up everywhere!

88995 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #155 of 1222 🔗

What a miserable git.
What a miserable life he must lead.
Now he’s trying to make everybody else’s equally miserable.
There’s a lot of them around.
Whatever they say, do the opposite.

88810 Miss Owl, 5, #156 of 1222 🔗

I don’t really understand why PHE/NHS has reduced the number of deaths. Looking at the PHE website, updated 12 August, so on the date the numbers went down, it states:

b. There are 2 definitions of a death in a person with COVID-19 in England, one broader measure and one measure reflecting current trends:
1) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and either died within 60 days of the first specimen date or died more than 60 days after the first specimen date, only if COVID-19 is mentioned on the death certificate
2) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and died within (equal to or less than) 28 days of the first positive specimen date

So a death in a positive-test person who died either 60 days ago, or more than 60 days ago, or less than 60 days (anyone else losing the will to live?) with C-19 mentioned on the death certificate? Plus ANYONE who dies within 28 days of a positive test.

What about all those people who died in care homes and GPs couldn’t even be fagged to turn up, leaving it to the unqualified with socks for facemasks who ‘estimated’ what they’d died from? Will these numbers be added back in? Were they ever included?

So the 5k reduction is a totally arbitrary figure designed to pacify sceptics, no?

88811 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #157 of 1222 🔗

Coronavirus: All New Zealand’s confirmed COVID-19 cases to be put in quarantine facilities from now on

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/coronavirus-all-new-zealand-s-confirmed-covid-19-cases-to-be-put-in-quarantine-facilities-from-now-on.html

Internment camps – ran like, say, care homes? Go and die there?

15 minute video of what a 2020 stasi state looks like. See you in the Gulags folks, UK covid Act gives them the right to take you to such a location if they ‘suspect’ you to have corona.

Again apologies if this was covered yesterday, I haven’t been able to keep up.

88819 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Basics, 10, #158 of 1222 🔗

News from my NZ relative is that a family in a ‘camp’ with ‘guards’, ‘escaped’, they were chased and ‘captured’, going to court next day where they hoped for a lenient sentence as they were there for a funeral, but the general opinion was a stiff sentence as a warning. It caused quite a lot of excitement, not a lot going on down there now.

88963 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #159 of 1222 🔗

I think we start changing the language – even more than ‘internment camp’ does.

‘Concentration Camp’ seems appropriate – concentrating ‘undesirables’ away from ‘healthy’ society.

88820 ▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 9, #160 of 1222 🔗

can boris be put in the gulags? doesn’t he have corona?

good god we’re screwed

88812 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 43, #161 of 1222 🔗

On Gov.UK they have Mask Exemption PDF’s to put on your phone and to print out. Hancock repeating in Parliament that masks give people confidence to shop and use public transport, while shops report footfall drop and transport runs around basically empty, obviously not seeing it from his ministerial car.

88824 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dan Clarke, 24, #162 of 1222 🔗

And museums and heritage sites not exactly swamped with visitors either. Went past South Kensington station last Sunday – platform was empty, no-one exiting or boarding the tube and to think both the Natural History Museum and the V&A were already open!

88902 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #163 of 1222 🔗

Difficult to get them to see the big picture though isint it, in their ivory towers

88910 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #164 of 1222 🔗

Not only that but our politicians must come from another planet or galaxy altogether.

89492 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, #165 of 1222 🔗

It is most certainly not Planet Claire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOjAzI5zALo

89179 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #166 of 1222 🔗

I’m cancelling my membership of galleries, museums etc until they grow some and tell the govt to p*** off.

89425 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to alw, 5, #167 of 1222 🔗

I’ve written to a few of them telling them that I’m boycotting them until this insanity is over or they grow some backbone and tell the government to stop killing the museums and heritage sector.

88873 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #168 of 1222 🔗

Buses round here are back at their old 20 minute or so frequency. I make a point of looking at them – they all have 2 to 4 people on.

88896 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #169 of 1222 🔗

Same here, still Hancock trots out the same old nonsense.

88912 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #170 of 1222 🔗

Even saw one bus in my area where there were no passengers at all.

89127 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #171 of 1222 🔗

Some buses here in Bournemouth are running with more passengers but services are still reduced, so it’s hard to know if that’s the reason.

I rode again today with my exemption card. Another maskfree woman, but also a bizarre sight on the way home – a man with a visor on plus a chinstrap mask. I have to admit I was staring at him for most of the journey. Happily from a seat at the back of the bus.

89682 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #172 of 1222 🔗

On the flip side, there is a mini boom coming in terms of car sales. A couple of friends & acquaintances in the industry have told me sales in the industry are skyrocketing since the mandatory masks on public transport; some showrooms reporting 1 months’ typical sales (pre-covid) are now happening in 1-2 days.

89782 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Not Tiger Woods, 2, #173 of 1222 🔗

I can tell that car usage is up. The air quality here in Bournemouth has been getting worse and worse over the past few days. Of course, some of that is the heat wave, but the smoggy haze is aggravated by the number of vehicles. So much for concern about the vulnerable. Those of us with lung conditions suffer more from vehicles emissions but no talk of restricting their use – nor would I ask for that consideration.

88815 snippet, replying to snippet, 62, #174 of 1222 🔗

Do face masks cause you severe distress?
Do you live a reasonable life?
Do you enjoy random acts of normal kindness?
Do you make evidence-based decisions?
Do you respond to risks proportionately?
Join the Old Normal Club.
Everyone welcome!

88998 ▶▶ annie, replying to snippet, 6, #175 of 1222 🔗

Wow! I’m putting that in my car window! Big letters!

89026 ▶▶▶ snippet, replying to annie, 15, #176 of 1222 🔗

Thanks. It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that the silent majority are fed up with the current situation and the fact that they have no political representation. I’m hoping the Old Normal Club will be very popular.

89314 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to snippet, 6, #177 of 1222 🔗

The Old Normal Club.

I LIKE IT!!!

89447 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to snippet, 3, #178 of 1222 🔗

Count me in!

88821 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 49, #179 of 1222 🔗

My friend is currently in Europe and will be driving back to this country next week. She sent me a message this morning. “France on the quarantine list. Fuck them. I’m not self isolating for 2 weeks”

88831 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Hubes, 24, #180 of 1222 🔗

Our daughter and her family plus friend and son have decided they’ll continue with their camping holiday in France, starting on Sunday. Good for them!

88843 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Hubes, 20, #181 of 1222 🔗

Ignore the quarantine. I had friends who returned from the USA (via Canada) during the early months of the Lockdown. They were supposed to quarantine, but no one checked on them.

88846 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Hubes, 6, #182 of 1222 🔗

Makes a lot of sense. Increased infections but not increased hospitalisations/deaths and we know PCR tests are not reliable and have a lot of false positives.

88834 Awkward Git, 5, #183 of 1222 🔗

Cannot find the clip with Michael J. Ryan the WHO spokesman by himself stating it’s time to remove people from families and homes from a few months ago but it is mentioned on this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ5Xo3NAUE0&t=0s

Prophetic or New Zealand following orders?

88835 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #184 of 1222 🔗

Having read the Wall St Journal article, I’m now puzzled. We already have MSC’s in our body. Evidently more MSCs are helpful under certain conditions.

If they’re a natural treatment, then it sounds wonderful. However, I’m intrigued as to where the administered MSCs are being produced. From animal “donors”? Will they be cultured like lab-grown meat? Any of you scientists have suggestions?

…. one of the most promising therapies for Covid-19 patients uses “medicinal signaling cells,” or MSCs, which are found on blood vessels throughout the body.

In preliminary studies, these cells cut the death rate significantly, particularly in the sickest patients. With a powerful 1-2-3 punch, these cells eliminate the virus, calm the immune overreaction known as a cytokine storm, and repair damaged lung tissue—a combination offered by no other drug. This type of regenerative medicine could be as revolutionary as Jonas Salk’s polio vaccine.

…. In one pilot study in March, doctors at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York treated a dozen severely ill Covid-19 patients on ventilators with MSCs. Two infusions modulated their hyperactive immune systems, and 83% of those patients survived.

…… MSCs were first identified and named by Prof. Arnold Caplan and colleagues at Case Western Reserve University in Ohio nearly 30 years ago. To translate this discovery into therapies, Mr. Caplan and I in 1993 launched Osiris Therapeutics, Inc. which developed this MSC into the world’s first approved systemically delivered cell therapy. During early years of scientific inquiry, Mr. Caplan and colleagues discovered that MSCs monitor and protect virtually every vessel in our bodies—the 60,000 miles of vessels that transport oxygen, nutrition and waste to and from every one of our cells.

When a MSC detects an infection or an injury to those vessels, it transforms into a factory to recruit and pump out immune-modulating and vessel-repair agents. These cells ameliorate crippling and deadly conditions when traditional chemical or biochemical drugs fail. The number of potential uses is enormous. MSCs are being tested on more than 900 different human ailments. Mr. Caplan describes these cells not as a “wonder drug,” but as a wonder drugstore.

88844 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #185 of 1222 🔗

calm the immune overreaction known as a cytokine storm

That is exactly what optimised Vitamin D levels do

88838 Aremen, 2, #186 of 1222 🔗

How do I post a graphic (jpeg)?
It’s an image of STAY AFRAID CONTROL THE PEOPLE SAVE BORIS

88839 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 16, #187 of 1222 🔗

Grrrr. Have just received a letter from the House of Commons. Ooh, thought I, it’s a reply to my request that the Department of Transport provides a health and safety assessment on mask wearing which I had asked my MP to provide. You may recall from previous posts, I had received two replies without any sign at all of a H and S policy attached, just the usual blurb about mask efficacy and government rules about wearing them.

Well the letter did involve transport, but it was a round robin letter from the MP hoping to restore the local rail service and setting up a petition for reopening. As our son has also received one, I assume that it has been sent to all constituents.

As an MP, the lad is really doing his best for the local area, I admit, but in these times local transport is NOT my priority, or anyone else’s, I would imagine. I just want to know when we can all get our lives back, stop having to wear face nappies and when we can get the economy working again.

Then there’s the cost involved of sending these letters…………

88849 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Margaret, 13, #188 of 1222 🔗

“I just want to know when we can all get our lives back, stop having to wear face nappies and when we can get the economy working again.”

Agreed Margaret, planning anything now is impossible. I’m literally existing sorry living one day at a time now. It’s very draining.

And what is it with MPs and sending letters? I emailed my MP twice and both times he sent a letter back. Admittedly the letters are getting shorter but usually if you get an email you respond with an email.

89131 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Margaret, 5, #189 of 1222 🔗

Part of getting the old normal back includes local transport. It’s easy for car users to forget the thousands (millions) of us who rely on public transport. That was how we go to work shop, have a day out, etc. etc. Now we’re second-class citizens dealing with reduced services and the inability to enjoy a simple, relaxed day out.

I want an end to gob rags as much as anyone and, of course, we need the economy functioning, but it seems like a chicken and egg kind of thing. Those of us without cars need transport for our economy to function. And despite the fact that I could easily afford to buy one, I refuse to get one simply because the government has decided to abuse transport users.

89327 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #190 of 1222 🔗

They’re making it hard for car users too.

My local council have blocked off the road to my bank, so disabled drivers can’t get anywhere near it!

It also means there’s no access to a lot of town centre parking spaces for anyone.

Nuts!

88842 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 20, #191 of 1222 🔗

Listening to Mike Graham and how London is a ghost town. A lot of people are afraid to come in on public transport.

If there was ever a moment to highlight the idiocy of all this, it’s now.

CoronaPhobia will be the end of civilisation at this rate.

Unless a blood sacrifice is made

88870 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to mhcp, 32, #192 of 1222 🔗

Many are not afraid but just can’t deal with masks and social distancing nonsense

88877 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Victoria, 11, #193 of 1222 🔗

I’m really not convinced it’s many. I think we on here are a small minority (though growing), I think the majority just begrudgingly accept it (shown both in NI and England by the minimal take up when not mandated) and there’s a minority (bigger than us though shrinking) who are genuinely shitting the bed on a daily basis terrified of everything.

London is a ghost town cos companies arent forcing people back to work because they can’t be dealing with making offices ‘covid secure’ at their own expense, when everyone office based can work from home, as it turns out. Than in turn will drive hospitality and retail to the brink, and then even less will go in. That’s my theory anyway.

88890 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark II, 7, #194 of 1222 🔗

That’s pretty much it, Mark. It would be great to think that loads of sceptics are out there, refusing to go along with the shite, but the fact is the majority are made up of two types: those that just think it’s the right thing, and those that genuinely think you will die with out a mask. Fear of death, albeit unfounded, is a powerful motivation.

88958 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #195 of 1222 🔗

Fear of death + fear of breaking the law + fear of social stigma. That’s a lot stacked up on the conform side.

89133 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Victoria, 3, #196 of 1222 🔗

I agree. From what I’ve seen on the buses in Bournemouth, there are plenty who seem to be going along to get along. Masks stuffed in pockets, pulled down to expose the nose as soon as possible, riding on the top deck with mask off (only on to get past the driver).

89202 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Victoria, 6, #197 of 1222 🔗

I live in London and won’t use public transport as I don’t want to be in a carriage/bus with people wearing germ ridden face masks. Have only worn a mask once and that was at the hairdresser but wore under my nose. Have done all of my shopping mask free as have many others.

88921 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mhcp, 10, #198 of 1222 🔗

I have been to Central London several times and work in one of the museums in the area and he’s not wrong about describing London as a ghost town.

It doesn’t help that the vast majority of people have not gotten back to working on site – that creates a domino effect which spills over into the retail and hospitality sectors.

It’s not only people who are afraid but more importantly people who don’t want to and are fed up with being treated like lepers or typhoid Marys. Plus with the country now officially in recession and more and more joining the ranks of the unemployed so eating out, shopping and visiting museums are increasingly being seen as luxuries that people can ill afford.

89453 ▶▶ Lili, replying to mhcp, 6, #199 of 1222 🔗

It’s not coronaphobia, people don’t want to wear masks. If they removed all the nonsense things would get back to normal.

88845 Major Panic, 9, #200 of 1222 🔗

”The voiceless need a voice” – where’s our Alan Jones common sense on our UK TV screens?

88850 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #201 of 1222 🔗

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7107403/ Influenza-like Illness Incidence Is Not Reduced by Influenza Vaccination in a Cohort of Older Adults, Despite Effectively Reducing Laboratory-Confirmed Influenza Virus Infections
“Vaccination reduces the number of influenza virus infections but not the overall number of ILI episodes: other pathogens fill the gap. We suggest the existence of a pool of individuals with high susceptibility to respiratory infections”.
This was published 2017.Prophetic?

88856 ▶▶ watashi, replying to swedenborg, #203 of 1222 🔗

prophetic indeed.

88864 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 2, #204 of 1222 🔗

How much more true is that of a virus that exists mainly in the collective imagination.

89114 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to swedenborg, 2, #205 of 1222 🔗

Ha! I was speculating this was the case to my husband only an hour ago, after seeing how Japan’s bad flu year was followed by lower COVID deaths. And how the increase in “cases” now is not resulting in more hospitalisations.

I looked at the stats from ONS earlier in the summer. On average over the years they give data for (back about 20 year IIRC) 8pct of the over 65s die from ILI and pneumonia each year. In the past 5 years it has been lower than average, giving a “backlog” of about 50,000 susceptible people who would have died if the rate had remained at 8pct. So it was hardly surprising we got hit hard in the U.K.

88855 Aremen, replying to Aremen, #206 of 1222 🔗

How do I upload a jpeg graphic onto the comments, please?

88880 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Aremen, #207 of 1222 🔗

I think you can use the link icon to the right of your comment or press the picture icon under the comment box.

88883 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Aremen, #208 of 1222 🔗

You need to be logged in and the icon will appear bottom right of the dialogue box.

88858 Aremen, replying to Aremen, #209 of 1222 🔗

I tried to set up a login account so that I could post a graphic, but now I can’s get on at all! Help please.

88891 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Aremen, #210 of 1222 🔗

I think you need to give it a few minutes to get sorted out then try reloading the page and logging in.

88862 RickH, replying to RickH, 19, #211 of 1222 🔗

“… according to Carl Heneghan and Tom Jefferson , the standard PCR test is an unreliable diagnostic tool because of false positives.”

Just to be clear on this – the CEBM group is always (and rightly) cautious in the way they present evidence – unlike the numerous publicity tarts promoting Covid.

The thing about the PCR test is that It is not a suitable diagnostic tool, and the term ‘fals positives’ is a polite way of saying ‘random noise’.

You can find better details on this elsewhere, but essentially the process picks out scraps of RNA supposedly asociated with a specific virus ( not an actual virus; not symptoms of infection; not symptoms of illness) The RNA is then used to create DNA which is amplified by a recursive process of reproduction – and Hey Presto! – the end result is identified as an infection. It was meant for research, not diagnosis.

So – the whole process is a pack of cards that can easily collapse at the falsification of the first assumption in the chain – i.e the relevance of a scrap of RNA.- let alone at later stages.

The whole ‘case’ thing isn’t built on sand, it’s built on shite – before we get to polite terms like ‘false positives’.

88866 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to RickH, 8, #212 of 1222 🔗

So true. PCR test is unreliable and lots of false positives

88863 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 44, #213 of 1222 🔗

Well, I am currently on a TGV to the south of France. Fuck the government. I won’t incriminate myself but I’m sure you can guess how much I will respect the quarantine.

88874 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to TheBluePill, 16, #214 of 1222 🔗

I don’t blame you. The whole thing is farcical. They’re now deliberately destroying our holidays, the cynic in me believes its all linked to the climate warming zealots.

89684 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #215 of 1222 🔗

Maybe…though some of the climate warning zealots are actually arguing we need to import tens of thousands more migrants from Europe & the middle east, so they can contribute literally tens of billions to the economy. I’m sure the mass movement of so many people won’t emit any carbon…

89000 ▶▶ annie, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #216 of 1222 🔗

Go to it.

89067 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #217 of 1222 🔗

That’s the spirit!

88869 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 12, #218 of 1222 🔗

The UK government has signed deals for a further 90 million doses of coronavirus vaccine.

The vaccines are being developed by the Belgian pharmaceutical company Janssen and the US biotech company Novavax.

It means the UK has placed orders for six experimental vaccines, taking its potential stockpile to 340 million doses.

In theory, there should be enough for everyone in the UK to get five doses. Most of the vaccines require only two.

With most vaccine trials ending in failure, the government is effectively hedging its bets, hoping that at least one of the vaccines it has purchased proves safe and effective.

The price being paid has not been revealed.

88875 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #219 of 1222 🔗

F.ing ludicrous. A vaccine for the common cold would make more sense.

89721 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 3, #220 of 1222 🔗

Vitamin D supplementation for the population would cost a fraction of the price…

88884 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #221 of 1222 🔗

Backhanders galore!

88909 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #222 of 1222 🔗

The one they used in 2017/18 resulted in around 30,000 deaths from flu related, because they picked ‘the wrong one’. Dispensable, that’s what we are.

88924 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #223 of 1222 🔗

Hi dan do you have source for that?

89042 ▶▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to anon, 1, #224 of 1222 🔗
89132 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Marie R, #225 of 1222 🔗

thank you

89965 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Dan Clarke, #226 of 1222 🔗

The 50K ‘excess deaths’ are from all causes. Not just flu. As Nick Stripe of ONS observed, the unusually cold winter had something to do with it.

88938 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #227 of 1222 🔗

and we’re paying for it? shocking.

88945 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #228 of 1222 🔗

More taxpayer paid subsidies for the health mafia..

89007 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #229 of 1222 🔗

Nat and Alison – I remarked yesterday that I doubted that any money had been laid out yet by NHS for the vaccine options entered into, over and above contributions to research. The second link Nat sent me did work, thanks, and BBC did indeed report that the deal was ‘paid for’. So I’ve requested the BBC’s evidence for this in the usual way at the bottom of their page, & will pass it on when I get it. I expect you and they are right though, money has changed hands!

Nat wasn’t impressed by my lack of enthusiasm for following Russia’s lead on vaccines, or anything at all. I’m afraid what was in my mind was much like one of the BTL comments from the BBC page:
‘Last novel liquid that came to UK from Russia did not prove beneficial to health….’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772650

89121 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sylvie, 1, #230 of 1222 🔗

Don’t believe the BBC. Funds handed to drug companies by organisations like BARDA will help pay for Ph3 studies. I don’t think any government is so daft that they will pay upfront for a vaccine that hasn’t been shown to work and hasn’t even been produced yet (though given how stupid governments are, I am not going to stake any money on that)

These are supply agreements so that drug companies don’t make millions of doses of a vaccine at a governments behest, and at cost to their profits and share price, only for the government to say “oh guess what? The virus has gone away and wasn’t actually that dangerous anyway so thanks for spending hundreds of millions, but we will save the money to support our decimated economy instead” (which is what they should be saying)

If there were no supply agreements, I don’t think you’d see an awful lot done in terms of vaccine development.

89181 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Sophie123, #231 of 1222 🔗

That’s helpful, thanks. Sort of how I imagined was the case, but as you say, anything now seems possible, given the PPE payments etc!

89267 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Sylvie, 1, #232 of 1222 🔗

Sylvie I didn’t see you comment about the Russian vaccines, I had a look for it now and couldn’t find it, there are so many comments. I am certainly not in favour of the Russian vaccines though – I see today it has been approved after being tested on 38 people !

89342 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to nat, 1, #233 of 1222 🔗

Ah, must have been someone else, I may have been a bit tetchy in the heat I’m afraid!

88872 RickH, replying to RickH, 26, #234 of 1222 🔗

a new paper for the Organisation of Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) has found that world leaders simply copied each other’s lockdown policies back in March”

Fascinating : bone-headed group think as the reason for shutting down the world.

The quality of political leadership and thought is in the toilet – across the world. This is a far more serious pandemic.

88889 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to RickH, 2, #235 of 1222 🔗

Not all nations shut down their world though – see China!

89083 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #236 of 1222 🔗

Not all – just the large majority!

88906 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 4, #237 of 1222 🔗

Yes, and sadly I’ve seen “everyone else was doing it” used as a defence, on this forum…

89423 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, #238 of 1222 🔗

I haven’t seen it used as a defence, I’ve seen it used as an explanation in response to the “if it isn’t a globalist takeover, how do you explain every country acting in lockstep?” question. I’ve done that myself. I’ve also repeatedly pointed out that “if Johnny jumped off a bridge would you do that too?” is one of the oldest parental ripostes in the book. Because doing something just because someone else does it is stupid.

89687 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Julian, 3, #239 of 1222 🔗

“everyone else was doing it” – also known as the Lance Armstrong defence. 🙂

88893 Gman, replying to Gman, 23, #240 of 1222 🔗

I have spoken to a large number of people over the last few weeks to try and convert them to the cause and I am finding a very similar response – which is that yes it all does seem a bit nonsensical and it does seem the virus is not that dangerous but we need to get on with it and follow the rules.

Whilst this is completely maddening I have tried to work out why any sane person would believe this and I think the biggest issue is nobody with any authority is speaking out – the odd scientist/commentator is just seen as an outlier.  I think a summary of this would be:

Universities/Scientists/Labour – mainly left leaning and see this as a great way to get rid of a Tory government and/or press the reset button to rebuild the world economy in their preferred image.

Religious Leaders/Celebrities – scared of being seen as uncaring and would be attacked en-masse by the Corona Nazis

Big Business – majority see the long term benefits of reduced competition in the future, the chance to rip up regulations and have access to a cheaper more desperate workforce.

Big Tech – Have never made more money or been as powerful

Government – Cant admit they have made a catastrophic mistake and/or in the pockets of big business & big tech – see above.

Who is left to represent the silent majority who think this whole situation is ridiculous but go along with it because they think they must be wrong due to nobody from the above sections of society speaking out?

88953 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gman, 7, #241 of 1222 🔗

Agree with all that you said although I find Big Business in cahoots with all of this bizarre because its not only SMEs that are in trouble but many big businesses as well. Some were already in trouble long before this crisis and the lockdown only accelerated their demise.

However you’re right that certain big businesses do stand to benefit especially with a desperate workforce swelled by those coming from sectors that have been decimated by this and could take years to recover.

89080 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Gman, 9, #242 of 1222 🔗

Totally agree with the experience you have outlined in your first paragraph; your explanations, however, probably miss the key point : most people simply want to avoid conflict and want a peaceful life. They might not believe the propaganda in the absolute sense – but they just want life to go back to being what it was.

Of course – we see the flaws in this analysis, but don’t underestimate the psychology.

Then you have to add in the plain dumb factor 🙂

89253 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Gman, #243 of 1222 🔗

It’s the same reason why this site is very much a rock for people to come and hide under. People don’t know that they don’t have to be led. As seperate individuals, acting in their liberty in their daily lives, they can make changes.

http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/

88894 IanE, 8, #244 of 1222 🔗

Fascinating graph of French deaths. On May 19th (or thereabouts) it looks as if 200 people rose from the grave ( minus c. 200 deaths!). Strange, but true!

88895 Edna, replying to Edna, 6, #245 of 1222 🔗

I really liked this link in to-day’s roundup:
A positive test does not make you a COVID-19 case ‘ – Interesting post from Sean Walsh for Conservatives Global

Made me think of “O what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive”. The government has lied so much that there seems to be almost no way out for them. Let’s hope, for all our sakes, that they find a way.

88900 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Edna, 7, #246 of 1222 🔗

I hope ( probably being over optimistic) that when the wasters that make up the H.O.C get back from their summer jollies they might actually start questioning this nonsense. Hopefully they will have been bombarded by their constituents (I know my MP has) and will do their bally jobs! I also suspect that Gove will be on manoeuvres to get Boris out and himself in.

88968 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to KBuchanan, 4, #247 of 1222 🔗

Being optimistic here but hopefully the rising economic pain of de Piffle and Poppycock’s brainwaves will undo them soon enough.

88897 tallandbald, replying to tallandbald, 9, #248 of 1222 🔗

I posted this further down the page but not sure if anyone visits there now…
For those that want it. High resolution graphic is available. It gets compressed on here.

88917 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to tallandbald, 1, #249 of 1222 🔗

I could do with a sticker for my car rear window

89504 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Major Panic, #250 of 1222 🔗

It sure beats honk if you love Jesus. Much more relevant for the time we live in.

88935 ▶▶ Aremen, replying to tallandbald, #251 of 1222 🔗

That’s more or less what I was trying to upload! See my comments re being unable either to post or upload a graphic.
Excellent!

88937 ▶▶ anon, replying to tallandbald, #252 of 1222 🔗

Try catbox.moe

88941 ▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to anon, 4, #253 of 1222 🔗

comment image

89269 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to anon, #254 of 1222 🔗

I tried catbox.moe after your suggestion – it works well, thank you

88948 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to tallandbald, 2, #255 of 1222 🔗

Excellent! I would like a copy to print out and stick on my visor when I visit the docs for an impending appointment. They absolutely insist on the wearing of face “coverings” no exceptions, no matter what, so this should do nicely. Sick of it all now, and not in a covid way either.

88898 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 4, #256 of 1222 🔗

https://thecritic.co.uk/does-it-all-up-to-you/

Another good one from The Critic

88934 ▶▶ kf99, replying to wendyk, #257 of 1222 🔗

Very good. But on theme of putting stats into context, no-one (Not even the critic ) seems to question GDP as some be-all and end-all. Plus I’m not sure if other countries figures can be relied upon?

89369 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 2, #258 of 1222 🔗

So, instead of 42,072 deaths in England, the figure has been down-scaled to 36,695. Incidentally, the change now means that the UK has a similar death rate per head of population to Italy and Spain and is not the great outlier that the raw data (and popular perception) believes to be Britain’s outstandingly poor performance.

Less susceptible to modification will be the UK’s GDP collapse. But that is, in part, influenced by a lack of consumer and business confidence. And how can that confidence return if Britons think the virus has already killed 7 percent of the country, the equivalent of 4.7 million people?

88899 Caroline Watson, 7, #259 of 1222 🔗

The comments under the BBC article about hospital admissions in ‘hotspots’ are very interesting. The tide is very clearly turning against ‘lockdown’ and masks and against the deification of the NHS. These are not conspiracy theorists or extreme right wingers; they are the people of middle England who decide elections.
Starmer needs to stop indulging the teaching unions and the BLM ‘activists’ and start listening to ordinary people in ordinary towns outside London, particularly those who run or work in small local businesses. He also needs to stop listening to the middle class Labour leaders of urban councils who are clearly perpetuating this situation to acquire additional funding from central government. The funding available to areas given a special status, like Greater Manchester, is something that needs to be exposed, as does what they are spending it on. Newcastle is taking the opportunity to ruin the city with cycle lanes!

88905 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #260 of 1222 🔗

So in the UK we over counted tests by 1.3 million but in California the computer glitches and forgot to add in 300K positive test results.

At least there the Director in charge of that has resigned, fallen on her sword and so on is the official story.

https://www.thewrap.com/california-public-health-director-sonia-angell-resigns/

I wonder if the truth behind it all is that they kept the number of positives lower to make it seem more deadly than it really was?

Wonder if any of our lot have that sort of honour?

88908 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #261 of 1222 🔗

I doubt any of our idiots will resign over this, they’ll just find someone else to take the blame.

88911 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #262 of 1222 🔗

Hello all

I have been invited to a Facebook Group that wants to boycott return to school in UK. So I have accepted the invite so I can observe without comment. There is literally NO point in commenting in there as you’d look like a troll!

You will not believe the content. If any of you with kids fancy joining to take a peek here is link https://www.facebook.com/groups/657607021743154/
There are 6.6k members.

There some sort of post from ‘independent SAGE’ that asks ‘what would you need for kids to get back to school’? And the answers… well I will leave it to your imagination. I just hold my head in my hands (after banging it against the wall!).

It’s AWFUL!!

88915 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Country Mumkin, #263 of 1222 🔗

I suspect there is a very strong correlation between families in that group and the kids I don’t my Cholsey hanging around with anyway.

88931 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Recusant, #264 of 1222 🔗

Indeed, though you feel sorry for the kids of those parents

88927 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #265 of 1222 🔗

Just been on their Twitter page and they’ve got a link to a map that shows all the educational establishments with Covid cases. Apparently there are 102, no idea out of how many of course it doesn’t say. But a nice little map with red flags all over it would induce a fair few people to want to support them.

https://www.boycottunsafeschools.co.uk/school-covid-cases

88936 ▶▶▶ GrowYourOwn, replying to ambwozere, 2, #266 of 1222 🔗

This casedemic has amazing powers to scare people and stop them thinking rationally.

88929 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #267 of 1222 🔗

Kids won’t be going back in September, we’re halfway through August now and there’s zero preparation been done. I doubt whether they will go back at all this year.

88962 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to JohnB, 6, #268 of 1222 🔗

Plus an awful lot of teachers seem to take their summer holidays in France so will have to “quarantine” for 2 weeks.

89375 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #269 of 1222 🔗

I’ve been suspecting that. Time’s definitely running out – unless they can go back a la old normal. Doesn’t sound like the Karenmums will let them though.

89692 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #270 of 1222 🔗

No, the Karenmums won’t let them, I suspect…saw a comment from one earlier today on a news item saying she’d support them writing the school year off until it’s “guaranteed” for every child to be safe. Of course notwithstanding a child could be hit on the head with a stray golf ball flying over the fence, or fall on a pummel horse in PE lessons and hit themselves in an inappropriate area, attempts to ‘guarantee’ kids safety, this could well carry on in perpetuity. Then wait until they realise their kids are 22 and still waiting to take their GCSE’s….!

88930 ▶▶ GrowYourOwn, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #271 of 1222 🔗

Just tell them the schools are back in Scotland with no issues. I know some children are wearing masks but the majority are just being kids and enjoying mixing with their friends. It’s great to see.

88993 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #272 of 1222 🔗

Try a 77 brigade style trojan horse. Go along with it all – not in the right place, create friends, gather followers and respect. Become an influencer. Then at the correct moment put in an irrefutable comment that will make the group fracture. Just a though – i haven’t the skill or patience to do that, but it might pass the time.

89040 ▶▶ Will, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #273 of 1222 🔗

The frightening thing is that these idiots have actually bred and passed on their stupid genes.

89047 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #274 of 1222 🔗

Joined!

88913 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 16, #275 of 1222 🔗

I am of the opinion that the leaders of this world are generally plonkers. In the past we may have had some great men/women, but they are long gone.

88939 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #276 of 1222 🔗

Standards in government are very low now just like everywhere else unfortunately.

88949 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #277 of 1222 🔗

I reckon smart, talented people don’t generally want to go into politics. Plenty of others things they can do that don’t attract all the vitriol that politicians of all stripes get. That mostly seems to leave it to the thick-skinned (and thick-headed) who often have a penchant for bossing people about.

88973 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to zacaway, 5, #278 of 1222 🔗

Smart, talented people reckon that they have better things to do with their lives and if they want to make a real difference they have long sussed out that politics isn’t the way for them to do that.

It’s the talentless and thick (plus unattractive) who end up in politics, its not for nothing that politics has been dubbed as “show business for ugly people”

88985 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #279 of 1222 🔗

Basically, politics attracts the kind of people who couldn’t get that kind of money doing anything useful.

88988 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #280 of 1222 🔗

Agree with that. Full salary and you don’t have to pay for anything – charge it all to expenses. Its living the Life of Riley on a massive scale.

89380 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #281 of 1222 🔗

Not plonkers. Ambitious sociopaths more like.

88916 Major Panic, 8, #282 of 1222 🔗

Cometh the hour, cometh the man (or woman) – please please cometh….

88918 Klein, replying to Klein, 23, #283 of 1222 🔗

Went into the off license there maskless, other woman in there was maskless too – as was the girl behind the till. Was like an oasis of normality.

Incidentially me and a mate are calling it ‘going bareback’. I’ve gone bareback into various establishments since it was made ‘mandatory’, haven’t been questioned once yet. Everyone I see with a mask is nearly always fiddling with it, they fish it out of some pocket before they go in to a shop. Surely fiddling with it and then touching things defeats the purpose of it?

88955 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to Klein, 15, #284 of 1222 🔗

Of course. The gov uk information page on these disgusting things gives no less than seventeen bullet points on how they should be worn. Obviously nobody does all this – the whole thing’s a farce, or would be if it was funny. They have nothing to do with health. It’s about oppression,

89696 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Klein, 1, #285 of 1222 🔗

After the fiddling with it & then touching things, you forgot the – smearing their hands all over the same chip & pin terminals. Even the Bank of England warned earlier in the year, hard surfaces like counters, handles, debit cards, [& card terminals] could potentially become a source of transmission..

88920 Mark T, replying to Mark T, #286 of 1222 🔗

Looking for some help, pls. Where can I find CoVid hospitalisation RATE information? Even with the dubious claims of spikes in infections, what is the rate of hospitalisations for those infected relative to March / April? The absolute current infection numbers are lower from those times and so are the absolute number of hospital admissions but how about the RATE?

If the rate is lower, there can be several possible explanations:

  1. It’s simply a demographic that is less vulnerable to health and life worries that is catching it,
  2. The virus is mutating to something less serious / deadly,
  3. The actual number of infections months ago was way, way, waaay higher than confirmed number because testing was so low.

Or maybe some combination of all 3? In any case, less hospital admissions (both outright and as a lower rate relative to cases) is positive any way you look at it but I can’t find anything that shows the RATE is lower.

Help, pls!

(As an aside and related: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772459 )

88926 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark T, #287 of 1222 🔗

The best I can suggest is (as usual) from the CEBM :

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-uk-hospital-admissions/

88933 ▶▶▶ Mark T, replying to RickH, #288 of 1222 🔗

Thanks – that has great info on the absolute number but not necessarily the rate. If it’s just a matter of maths (ie take the absolute number of admissions vs the amount infected at the time) then so be it – but I’d think that someone would have done that already somewhere on the site if it was that simple!

Infection numbers themselves aren’t irrelevant by any means. But if hospitalisation (and death) rates are falling, I think that is significantly more relevant than anything else. But I’m struggling to get that info (oddly).

89052 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Mark T, #289 of 1222 🔗

You might just have to get anecdotal evidence from hospital employees? I don’t think that they want us to know! There are currently 16 covid patients in Leicester hospitals (1 of which is in intensive care) And the “case” numbers and tests have been published if you can do the maths?

89068 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark T, #290 of 1222 🔗

Perhaps track the CEBM sources (they will be official) – even see if Jason Oake, their chief statistician can help.

But you may find that you do indeed have to work the numbers yourself.

89148 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark T, replying to RickH, #291 of 1222 🔗

I’ve sent a note requesting info from CEBM – will post here if / when I receive a response.

88922 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #292 of 1222 🔗

The news about what has happened in care homes, around the world is nightmarish, also the fact that cancer research has been put on hold during this. Covid has provided the leaders and cabals of the world with the tools to enforce many of the controls they’ve wanted to do for years and an article in the Telegraph shows how they can manipulate it by a statistical quirk so it never officially ends.

89698 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Dan Clarke, #293 of 1222 🔗

I have a feeling everything will be ok just as soon as the Presidential election is over & Biden can emerge from the basement…

88932 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 4, #294 of 1222 🔗

I hope I’m not stealing Two-Six’s thunder here but our favourite Piper Navajo G-BEZL of 2Excel has been to Grantham twice already today.

There is a photo of it online that shows a sensor mounted under the nose. Would like to have a poke around in the cabin to see what they have in there.

88954 ▶▶ anon, replying to Biggles, 1, #295 of 1222 🔗

Do you know what the sensor is or might be?

Or any idea what on earth they are up to?

89021 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to anon, #296 of 1222 🔗

I can’t really comment on the sensor but it is strange that it has been over Grantham so often. The pattern is a circular orbit which is different to a survey operation. Mapping normally comprises a series of straight lines to cover a set area.

89031 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Biggles, 1, #297 of 1222 🔗

true… the pattern is very much like those followed by police helicopters when they are searching a small area for a miscreant in hiding

88992 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Biggles, 1, #298 of 1222 🔗

saved me checking .. It went back to base in Northants on wednesday then back up to Doncaster to return to the Grantham circuit yesterday and today.
I did post a couple of days ago some info about 2-Excel. They do a lot of land survey photography and i think the plane has a hi-res camera in a hemispherical mounting under the nose comment image ?ssl=1
However i an intrigued to know what is so interesting in Grantham

89260 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mjr, 1, #299 of 1222 🔗

Thats a camera under the nose. Humm interesting….I bet they are counting face-nappies.

89274 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to mjr, #300 of 1222 🔗

So would I,I live there !

89419 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #301 of 1222 🔗

Is HS2planned anywhere near? Could be geological?

89005 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Biggles, #302 of 1222 🔗

On third run now

89032 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biggles, #303 of 1222 🔗

It comes up on Companies House website under these:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05391365 – 2 Excel Aviation Limited

It is listed as being under a charge from a bank so it’s used as collateral or has a loan outstanding:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05391365/charges

89033 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #304 of 1222 🔗

From their website:

With the ability to fly a full range of technologies, from synthetic aperture radar, electro-optic and infra-red turrets and cameras, to lasers, datalinks, and a wealth of antennas across the radio frequency spectrum, Special Missions provides specially designed solutions to clients’ needs across a breadth of operations.”

89155 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, #305 of 1222 🔗

banks will have a charge on the planes ..

88942 wat tyler, replying to wat tyler, 3, #306 of 1222 🔗

Hi All .Just joined after watching for months.Think we need to start getting our message out to the general public more .was wondering if anyone on here selling good stickers or posters and what the messages are? Ive just been thinking .THE VOICELESS NOW HAVE A VOICE .with the lockdown sceptics web address or NO MASKS ,NO LOCKDOWNS ,NO SOCIAL DISTANCING and the web address. what do people think ? any ideas ?

89004 ▶▶ Julian, replying to wat tyler, 2, #307 of 1222 🔗

Lots here and doubtless lots of others are active on social media, writing to MPs, local and national government, medical authorities, talking to friends and colleague, going maskless, public protests. So the message is going out, just not as much as it needs to. Simon Dolan and Keep Britain Free and doing good work, and there’s another organisation called StandUpX doing similar things.

What’s a lacking is a political party behind this (no hope) or a more co-ordinated effort. I keep thinking we need a billionaire sponsor to bring in some paid organisers and buy media space to get the message out, but the richest sceptic I can come up with so far is Luke Johnson.

89008 ▶▶ Basics, replying to wat tyler, 3, #308 of 1222 🔗

Hello Wat I was calling for you months ago!

89363 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Basics, #309 of 1222 🔗

Thanks mate. Its time to party like its 1381

89011 ▶▶ Basics, replying to wat tyler, 2, #310 of 1222 🔗

Car window signs.

89055 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to wat tyler, 5, #311 of 1222 🔗

I’ve just created a poster with the help of Cheezilla and Major Panic, both regulars on this forum. Watch this space…

88943 Lucky, 5, #312 of 1222 🔗

Thanks to Toby for all the Round-up links, especially Alan Jones

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6180738886001

Can we have one of these please?….(sigh)

88944 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 32, #313 of 1222 🔗

There’s a local little independent coffee shop near me that managed to stay open for most of the lockdown and the OH and I used to stop by along our daily state-sanctioned walk to get a take away coffee and nibble (no masks back in those carefree days when people were actually dying from covid).

Today the OH went in, maskless, to get our regular order. Unfortunately the Gruppenführer who owns the place asked OH if she had a mask – who replied that she forgot it. She was told that she cannot be served then, unless she goes outside and hollers in her order. OH scoffed and just walked out, vowed never to return again. Repeat customer lost, permanently.

What’s even more galling is the owner wasn’t even masked at all herself. Bloody hypocrite!

I think this is how it’ll have to be – business that take it upon themselves to enforce the oppression should be boycotted. Only way to get things to change.

88950 ▶▶ Edward, replying to zacaway, 21, #314 of 1222 🔗

Stand at the door waving a £20 note and holler “Not for you!”

88961 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Edward, 5, #315 of 1222 🔗

Brilliant!

89002 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to zacaway, 3, #316 of 1222 🔗

Another one with a death wish – boycott so that we can grant their heart’s desire to go bust.

89424 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to zacaway, 2, #317 of 1222 🔗

Find someone who deserves your custom.
Next!

88946 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 20, #318 of 1222 🔗

https://www.newsweek.com/sweden-emails-anders-tegnell-johan-giesecke-herd-immunity-coronavirus-1524847
https://emanuelkarlsten.se/tegnell-mejlen-sa-fick-flockimmuniteten-faste-hos-folkhalsomyndigheten/
https://emanuelkarlsten.se/tegnell-mejlen-berattelsen-om-johan-giesecke-och-folkhalsomyndigheten/

Sorry the last two links in Swedish but are the principal information in the Newsweek article.There is a full fledge attack at the moment on the Swedish epidemiologists for not accepting face masks and want a change of the tactic and/or change of narrative and call it semi lockdown. The Swedish media and academic world are now inundated with demands to follow WHO and use masks and more align with MSM Big Pharma script and Project fear. They will succeed. There is no way the Swedish government can resist as they paradoxically is one of the most PC globalist government in the world.Always surprised that the government gave so much leeway to their epidemiologists. Most likely the last remnants of a previous social democrat ideology, which after the war gave free reign to technocrats and medical expert to build up the Swedish health system, child health system, vaccinations etc without interference of politicians. This old fashioned national social democracy has long been gone and replaced by the universal PC setup in place all over the world.MSM has now got hold of e mails and reports about the sometimes, jocular tone in the emails in this “highly male dominated hierarchy”. Prof Giesecke refer to his “boys” in the frontline. The usual media distortion of e mails sent to Tegnell by colleagues in the Swedish medical establishment. An elderly, retired physicians e-mailed about a suggestion, if in this C-19 pandemic, there could be use of “the chicken pox parties”. He described that this happened in 1950s 1960s so he suggested as now the disease was mostly mild in younger, perhaps they could recommend to have the cases in hotels and mingle to spread the disease to achieve immunity more rapidly. This friendly advice from an old retired Swedish doctor sent in good faith to the Chief Epidemiologist has now been picked up by media and is already used in the US, as a sign that Tegnell is a blood thirsty social Darwinist. This was just a proposal and a good advice sent with the best intentions and Tegnell did not even consented. They also try to dig up more dirt on retired Giesecke’s role in the whole response suggesting money is involved in his consultancy role and that his wife, a retired Anaesthetist had an economic interest in one of the field hospitals that was set up. The long knives are up in Swedish media. Also interviews with all the usual academic rivals in the press, all demanding masks for all. Sweden will fall soon.

88960 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to swedenborg, 17, #319 of 1222 🔗

It will be so sad if they do succumb – would have thought they have enough ammunition (success of not having a full lockdown) to fight this MSM narrative.

88982 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 21, #320 of 1222 🔗

Depressing. One would think all the usual coronapanicking suspects would be utterly discredited in Sweden, of all places, having been so wrong for so long.

But these global elite internationalist scumbags seem to be able to bring endless pressure on anyone and anything standing up to them, until they win. It’s similar to the way the woke-ists always, always seem to get apologies out of their targets.

That’s basically why the almost as rare as rocking horse s**t defeats for the globalists – Brexit, Trump’s win, Sweden resisting the coronapanic lockdown frenzy – generate such vicious hatred from the globalists, who are completely unused to not getting their way, and such support from people who might not even like the particular cause much. It’s just so nice to see the people who always get their way, not getting their way, occasionally.

89035 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to swedenborg, 21, #321 of 1222 🔗

This is just about the most depressing thing I have read in several months. If Sweden ends up stepping in line with the rest of the world ( despite the virus having virtually disappeared there now ), there really is no hope. Up to now Sweden has been a beacon of sanity and reason, and a hard-to-ignore example to the rest of the world that the herd immunity strategy might actually work.

It doesn’t surprise me at all that there are elements of the Swedish media taking this line, but what about the general public? After reading articles like this https://unherd.com/2020/08/why-sweden-is-different-when-it-comes-to-covid/ I find it hard to believe they’re as dumbed-down, passive and obedient as the British public seem to be at the minute. Surely after having largely supported Tegnell, Giesecke etc. they’re not all going to just line up to wear masks and cower in fear of a “second wave” because the media tells them to?

89362 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Drawde927, 2, #322 of 1222 🔗

Sorry to depress. In the beginning of the pandemic there was support for the strategy although some dissenting voices. These were not dominant despite the high death rates. Paradoxically while the figures now look very good, more negative opinion coming forth in MSM. The face masks all over the world have increased the pressure in MSM that every country must follow this in solidarity. Remember that WHO declared this week the mask week and Swedish politicians have slavishly followed UN directives. Therefore the sudden digging up of e-mail communication, smear campaign as MSM wants the masks now. The population will follow whatever the politicians are going to say about the pandemic just like in all European countries (except Eastern Europe)

89377 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 3, #323 of 1222 🔗

Depressingly Norway, Denmark and Finland are introducing masks on public transport 🙁

89370 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 6, #324 of 1222 🔗

Hope not – huge numbers of regions have zero patients in intensive care here and most regions have 5 or fewer patients in hospital at all – there is NO justification for masks now..

89420 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Carrie, 4, #325 of 1222 🔗

100 % agree.

89730 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #326 of 1222 🔗

Next Monday’s stats are likely to show a number of Swedish regions with zero hospitalised patients with Covid – today there are several regions that have only 1 or 2 and these people may have been discharged from hospital by Monday night when they publish the new stats. How do you think they will ‘sell’ the wearing of masks here then? Swedes may generally be compliant, but they are not stupid!

88951 Saved To Death, replying to Saved To Death, 21, #327 of 1222 🔗

Just been out for some fuel, bread and milk. Went to Morrisons first because they have a fuel station when entering a lady with mask and visor who is normally on the tills being particularly zealous about rule following was standing at the door with the security guards. She ran after me and said ‘Do you have a face covering?’, I said I am exempt she continued ‘Do you have your exemption card’ I replied I do not need to present an exemption card, she started ‘Oh but…’ when I cut her off and just said I will go to another supermarket. She followed me a little as I was leaving saying ‘oh its OK’ or something – I did not really listen though.

Went to Lidl and did my shopping mask less and unharassed. I will be cancelling our online orders with Morrisons.

The only other time so far my lack of mask has been mentioned was when I was paying for fuel up north – the guy said next time remember your mask. I just said dont worry there wont be a next time.

I does not seem we will be able to keep up mask resistance for long though I expect changes in laws and increases in fines to make it harder to refuse along with the list of mandatory mask location endlessly growing.

Out of roughly 20 people I saw in lidl only 1 had no mask but thats better then what I saw up north, must have seen 100’s in supermarkets over our few days holiday but not a single maskless shopper.

88956 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Saved To Death, 20, #328 of 1222 🔗

It’s all the children wearing masks who are clearly under 11 that breaks my heart. I honestly thought people would rebel during the heatwave but no. Clearly they are all fine with this for what 3 months, 6 months, a year, the rest of their lives?

88965 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to KBuchanan, 16, #329 of 1222 🔗

I don’t think young children like their parents wearing masks either for them being able to see their parents face helps them feel secure. I agree with you an I think those parents are unfit.

The mask demands and compliance makes me really angry. I have not yet been harassed by another shopper and I think the extreme anger I am suppressing on every shopping trip may help here as my wife says I look like I want to kill someone.

89001 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to KBuchanan, 8, #330 of 1222 🔗

I said the same to my wife this morning,if the 36 degree heat around here didn’t persuade them that masks are a stupid idea then nothing is going to.

89009 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 9, #331 of 1222 🔗

Funny how during the heat, I’ve lost count of people touching their faces and fiddling with their muzzles. One woman was holding her muzzle away from her nose every 10 seconds to try to breathe. Clearly she was having issues and should not be wearing them.

88964 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Saved To Death, 10, #332 of 1222 🔗

The exemptions will stay. Do not give up

88970 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Victoria, 4, #333 of 1222 🔗

I will not give up easily – even if the exemptions are removed I will persist but I have a feeling they will at least become much more strict if not removed entirely. Once ‘the science’ ‘shifts’ and says masks are harmless but save us from covid the gov will have their justification. Like all we have seen so far that justification need have no basis in reality.

89703 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #334 of 1222 🔗

Pretty sure the WHO still have vids online from a couple of months ago, saying that masks may give you confidence but offer little practical resistance and therefore should not be mandatory..

88999 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Saved To Death, 5, #335 of 1222 🔗

I agree,I expect the law to change soon and the use of exemptions to be made more difficult.
I went in the Co-op this morning maskless,no problems and the staff were friendly,only one other bare faced customer though,very disheartening indeed.

89099 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Saved To Death, 25, #336 of 1222 🔗

Hate to say it but I can see the wearing of masks anywhere outside being made mandatory before xmas.

OH and I are off down south tomorrow to visit my parents, what should be a wonderful trip is putting me on edge. I shop maskless but I need to get a bus to pick up our hire car tomorrow (normally take the train but we don’t want the hassle of maskholes), I haven’t been on a bus since this all started and I’m dreading being turned away at the car hire firm for not wearing a mask.

My OH hasn’t been to the shops throughout, she is a sceptic although not as vociferous as me as it is her way of dealing with the situation and I think she thinks things will change overnight. We are both taking a snood each to wear if confronted at motorway services. I can just about stand to wear a snood for a 5 minute loo break. To see people wearing the disgusting masks makes me angry, sad and distressed. I kick myself sometimes as I’m a fit 42 year old who has played sport at a decent level and was a debt collector for years so I’ve experienced confrontation. I catch myself saying to myself just wear one you tart (probably a hate crime me saying that to myself) but I know it’s wrong in everyway conceivable to wear one and I do have a genuine case to be exempt as it causes me distress as evidenced by this post.

People do not realise this is only the starter and the main course is yet to come so playing along isn’t going to help. I am genuinely worried for my and our future.

Sorry about that needed to get that out.

89437 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Saved To Death, 5, #337 of 1222 🔗

This ramping up the fines speaks of of desperation, I think they
feel people are waking up to the bollox.

88952 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 33, #338 of 1222 🔗

I just heard a virologist on World at One (BBC radio 4) trying to explain away why in Oldham they have quite a few cases but no one calling 111, seeing doctors, going to hospital or dying. She tried to say this was an indication of the success of current measures, that it was still dangerous & that young people had died, could get ill etc. She then said that just because you’d been infected didn’t mean you wouldn’t get it again. There’s been no case of anyone getting it twice! Clearly, if no one’s ill then it isn’t much of an illness. The questioning is so inane, I really despair of how the medics continue to spin this thing without a thought to the consequential costs.

88957 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Marie R, 11, #339 of 1222 🔗

That’s how The Science (TM) works, it’s unfalsifiable. If there’s nothing, then it worked. If there is, then it would have been worse without it.

88967 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Marie R, 20, #340 of 1222 🔗

We are no longer listening (or watching BBC), much better for our mental health.

89704 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Victoria, 1, #341 of 1222 🔗

I don’t know.. Just a couple of weeks ago I was watching a BBC reporter ask the real probing questions: “What do you mean when you say R-rate? can you explain that one again?” & perhaps my personal favourite [to the Chancellor] “do you think they’ll be a recession this year?” all that time at journalism school clearly well spent.

88979 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Marie R, 5, #342 of 1222 🔗

I think that three discipline must have a ‘health warning’ now, given the unscientific rubbish being promulgated by members of these areas of employment (I avoided the word ‘expertise’):

  • Virology
  • Epidemiology
  • Public Health
89016 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RickH, 5, #343 of 1222 🔗

They should be downgraded and put under the “quack” category to join the following:

  • astrology
  • alchemy
  • phrenology
89441 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #344 of 1222 🔗

These are more accurate…

89653 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #345 of 1222 🔗

You’ve studied them then, Bart ?

(Tip of the hat to Isaac Newton there).

89018 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Marie R, 5, #346 of 1222 🔗

Listening to and watching the BBC is hazardous to one’s health.

So is the rest of the mainstream media.

89022 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Marie R, 11, #347 of 1222 🔗

We are experiencing the Big Lie. They are committed to keeping it going otherwise their game is up!

88972 Paul, replying to Paul, 53, #348 of 1222 🔗

A friend,in her seventies,had an accident on Monday involving a fall,it turned out she had broken several ribs.Another of her friends rushed her to the emergency department at our hospital (downgraded to an ‘urgent care centre’ under cover of Covid regulations),they were ‘greeted’ at the door by a security guard,who seeing her predicament fetched a wheelchair.However,once inside,before anyone had even attended to her, a nurse barked ‘you need a mask on in here’,my friend told her she was exempt because of a chronic lung condition and showed an exemption card,the nurse replied ‘that’s not valid in here,no exemptions on NHS property’,shoved a mask at her and implied if she didn’t put it on she wouldn’t be treated !,all this happening whilst my friend was screaming in agony with pain.She was taken to triage and the nurse there was shocked that she had a mask on and said,’for god’s sake !,you can take that bloody thing off !’.
This is an unbelievable way to treat an injured person who was in extreme pain and distress,it seems every last bit of human decency and compassion is rapidly being removed from society,all part of the ‘big’ plan I suppose.
I am livid to hear of my friends treatment and I am composing a letter of complaint to the head of the NHS trust,which is of course pointless,every other letter I have sent to different companies etc.during this madness has been ignored or answered with condescending platitudes.

88974 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Paul, 18, #349 of 1222 🔗

Get in touch with Simon Dolan or Francis Hoar as well, they’re always happy to hear stories of this nature.

88976 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to ambwozere, 6, #350 of 1222 🔗

Yes,that’s a good suggestion.

88987 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Paul, 13, #351 of 1222 🔗

Or Peter Hitchins. Basically just get the message out of what’s actually happening rather than the picture painted by the government.

88975 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Paul, 17, #352 of 1222 🔗

Send a copy of this letter to Toby, Simon Dolan (for his twitter page) and Anna Brees (video narrative from your friend).

88990 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Victoria, 1, #353 of 1222 🔗

Do you know the email for Toby Victoria ?,I did have it but can’t find it now !.

89457 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, 1, #354 of 1222 🔗

Toby always posts it at the end of his “shameless begging bit”

Meanwhile, here it is: lockdownsceptics@gmail.com

88983 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 11, #355 of 1222 🔗

Disgusting, though good for the second nurse. I wonder if these people would like their own elderly mother/father treated in this way …

89020 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to kh1485, 8, #356 of 1222 🔗

Both my parents have passed on but if either of them had been treated in this way I’d have been arrested for what happened next! Dad suffered with emphysema and mum had heart trouble.

89078 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella Donna, 14, #357 of 1222 🔗

I’m so sorry to hear about your parents. I’ve wondered what I would have done if my Mum had still been alive. I think I too would have been arrested! But my concern would be that she was so in thrall to what the doctors said, that she would have been terrified into submission by the fear-mongering. My only comfort now, and I tell her this when I go to her grave, is that she is out of all this and doesn’t have to suffer the consequences of what is happening now.

It’s quite a potent question to ask (as I found out) when I finally secured meetings with representatives of the NHS, responsible for my mum’s ‘care’ (it took me 10 months of non-stop badgering). I had to be strong (for her) but I managed to reduce several of them to tears when I relayed what had happened to her. And I asked them “how would you feel if this had been your Mum or Dad?” Of course, they couldn’t really answer but I hope it concentrated a few minds because next time, it might well be their Mum or Dad.

89984 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to kh1485, 2, #358 of 1222 🔗

Crocodile tears, I would bet.

89460 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 1, #359 of 1222 🔗

Maybe the first nurse didn’t have a mother or father, just crawled out from under a rock.

89983 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to kh1485, #360 of 1222 🔗

“I wonder if these people would like their own elderly mother/father treated in this way …”

I expect they would do. Brains are in short supply in the NHS as well as elsewhere.

88991 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Paul, 18, #361 of 1222 🔗

I object to paying taxes for this wretched, failing (and now purely political) institution. Cowards, liars and in some cases murderers by proxy.

89103 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard O, #362 of 1222 🔗

No – it’s not ‘failing’ despite all the hobby-horse riding here.

What is faling is the political control – starting with a an extremist Tory government led by a transparent liar who nobody with a brain should have voted into such a position. Then below that, you have the hand-me-down grace-and-favour management creating a service in the image of their masters.

But, no – it not failing.

89466 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #363 of 1222 🔗

I didn’t vote for the transparent liar!
Lansley and *unt should join him at the stocks too.

89988 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 1, #364 of 1222 🔗

It has failed miserably since the end of March. The political control should be resisted.

89010 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Paul, 11, #365 of 1222 🔗

How can two nurses have different rules in the NHS no wonder there is so much incompetence! A complaint should be made to the Director of the hospital!

89017 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #366 of 1222 🔗

Frankly, that would be a waste of paper, ink and a stamp. All you get is management-speak, meaningless platitudes and insincere smarm. I know, from bitter experience, the high-ups don’t give a damn …

89586 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to kh1485, 1, #367 of 1222 🔗

Sue them. Nothing concentrates minds like a solicitor’s letter.

89147 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #368 of 1222 🔗

Then the sensible, humane nurse will get into trouble whilst the Irma Grese wannabe gets promoted….

89012 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Paul, 14, #369 of 1222 🔗

so a triage nurse – thinking medically- orders her to remove the mask. the “nurse” in reception orders her to wear a mask or not be admitted and treated .
Not only is this inconsistent but it also worrying that the receptionist is actually giving bad medical advice. Is this bad training? Bad processes, Bad instructions?
Do the letter to the trust and state that it is being copied to the relevant people (add MP and other media – local newspaper etc ) as per the other comments

89015 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to Paul, 13, #370 of 1222 🔗

Sadly such cases are very depressing and do leave you wondering about common decency and indeed common sense. However I do find that often a bad experience is balanced by an unexpected good one. This morning in a small town that we do not know particularly well (somewhere different for a walk) we had some negative moments with mask zealots but then discovered a little record shop where the unmasked owner was happy to chat to us in a completely normal, friendly and human way. I do find that there is real warmth in interactions with those who like us are unmasked. The zealous empty vessels may make the most noise and we who are very anti mask are still a minority but I believe that the middle ground which goes along with mask wearing for a quiet life is not particularly pro mask and would gladly throw them away. We need to stay strong and keep working at it.

89229 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Guirme, 2, #371 of 1222 🔗

Yes, I think that’s also my considered view. Sometimes I’m near to despair when I read of places with 90% masked outside, as it would seem that compulsory masking everywhere outside the house is on the way. But I think the majority wear them in shops for a quiet life and as soon as they go outside they pull the mask down or stuff it in their pocket. Compulsory masking outside would, I hope, meet much more resistance. I have drafted a letter to my MP and others for immediate sending if compulsory masking outside is proposed.

89025 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 10, #372 of 1222 🔗

I think you should send that to Simon Dolan and Anna Brees as well apart from the relevant recepients. This sort of thing should be highligted, its appalling that the NHS has forgotten the first rule of medicine: first do no harm.

Hippocrates is now spinning in his grave.

89030 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Paul, 18, #373 of 1222 🔗

I’ve come to the point of hating the NHS.

89051 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Liam, 14, #374 of 1222 🔗

Have done for years, but never with such intensity as now.

89061 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 16, #375 of 1222 🔗

I did two and a half years ago when they treated my mum like she wasn’t even human.

As Mark says, “Never forgive, never forget” and I never will. Old Blondie in Downing St. can have as many effing clapathons as he wants, but I will always hate the NHS for what they did then and for what they are doing now.

89091 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 10, #376 of 1222 🔗

Our daughter works in a hospital,she’s not a nurse though,she has told me of the lack of care,patience and at times cruelty that she has witnessed nursing staff inflict on patients in the dementia ward.There have been times when she has gone to the shop and bought,out of her own money,some things that some of these poor people have needed but the nurses would not get for them.I told my daughter that I was proud of her for doing this.
It seems that a lot of the nursing staff regard all non-medical employees as beneath them,which is ironic as some of the surgeons and consultants think the nurses are a long way below them !.

89111 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 9, #377 of 1222 🔗

Your poor daughter and how kind of her to do that. The people who showed my mum and me great kindness were the porters who wheeled her bed to a really grim ward. They were so gentle and kind (and I thanked them for being so). This was in stark contrast to the doctor who joked over my dying mum’s bed and what was galling about that is that I didn’t feel I could say anything because I didn’t want them to hurt her. On that ward, there were several older ladies who were quite clearly senile but all they wanted was a smile or a bit of kindness which the nurse on duty did not provide. She just barked at them and spoke to them as though they were naughty children. Really, really horrible.

89271 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 3, #378 of 1222 🔗

Funnily enough my daughter is a porter !,she came home just now and told me how rude the A&E nursing staff had been to her today.

89152 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Paul, 8, #379 of 1222 🔗

been that way ever since they made nursing a graduate entry … seemed to lose the requirement for having a caring nature

89470 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 6, #380 of 1222 🔗

A few years’ ago I was buying some make up for a job interview and the make up artist helping me told me that she was a former nurse. When I asked her why she left, I half expected that she was going to say “crap pay” or “just wanted a career change” but no she told me that she left when they made nursing graduate entry and noticed the change which in her opinion was not for the better. “It wasn’t the same profession I trained for,” she said.

89476 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, 1, #381 of 1222 🔗

That’s the problem with hierarchies. No respect.

89203 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Liam, 5, #382 of 1222 🔗

Ditto. It’s clear now why they had everyone (not me) clapping for the first two months. They knew the criticism would be coming but now people like us criticising the NHS are “deniers” or “anti-NHSers”

89246 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Liam, 2, #383 of 1222 🔗

Me2 A collection of proper Charlies. I don’t trust the NHS at all. I hope I never need to have anything from them again.

89141 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Paul, 15, #384 of 1222 🔗

That stupid bitch on reception might want to read the law. There is no law that says you have to wear a face covering in any medical setting and even if there were the same exemptions would still apply. Complete fucking idiot. There are however laws that say you can’t discriminate, harass or refuse to provide a service to somebody who requires it.

From the Equality Act

A service-provider must not victimise a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service.

I would encourage your friend to prosecute them for violation of the equality act.

88981 ambwozere, replying to ambwozere, 11, #385 of 1222 🔗

Here’s a sceptical celebrity, Denise Welch. Kirsty Alsop is somewhat sceptical too. Just need more of them to question what’s going on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/home?locale=en-gb

89027 ▶▶ Liam, replying to ambwozere, 7, #386 of 1222 🔗

Matt le Tissier is another.

89064 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to ambwozere, 1, #387 of 1222 🔗

Peter ebdon is another one.

88994 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 16, #388 of 1222 🔗

I imagine a lot of places like Thornbury are being disfigured by covid signage, by the local councils. Clevedon, near where I live, has had a variety of signs stuck around all over the place, although my recent foray into the town showed some had disappeared (for now). Face-rags are common here, the population average age is higher in North Somerset so there are plenty of very old, vulnerable and other assorted bed-wetters. I feel helpless at times. I don’t go out in the area very much, certainly not into the shopping-streets….no point. Most everyone is obeying their Masters, although whether they’re all happy about it, I doubt…heard one young-ish woman grumble to her children as she left a chemist shop, about her mask, “hang on a minute, let’s just get this thing off…” and removed it rapidly, displaying considerable relief.
I do all my posting via online stamp purchase and getting carriers to collect any parcels I may need to move. Food shopping….online, plus local “outdoor” shop and collect in carpark in farm shop. Thank goodness we, as a two-some, have very few other needs to go out for.
The whole thing seems endless. Even in emails I get hammered about “how we’re taking care of you in the covid crisis” ….I couldn’t give a stuff. It’s in our faces day in day out, week after month. We’re all going to need psychotherapy after it’s all over…if we can afford it.

89059 ▶▶ annie, replying to thedarkhorse, 14, #389 of 1222 🔗

Get your psychotherapy here!
Remember that sanity is not statistical. And that all revolutions start quietly. And that all great advances in scientific understanding have been viciously opposed by those currently in power.
Just NEVER DESPAIR.

89081 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to annie, 6, #390 of 1222 🔗

I know you’re reply is for someone else, but as someone who is currently getting their psychotherapy from here, I want to thank you for it.

88996 Mark, 29, #391 of 1222 🔗

I keep expecting people to stop being actually afraid and start just obeying for form’s sake, but this literally incredible, absurd actual fear of what is basically a fantasy keeps reappearing.

It has been truly an eye-opening testament to the sheer power of what propaganda can do when the state and big business and social elites are all pushing in the same direction and using fear. They can literally make most people believe that black is white. Have done so.

88997 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #392 of 1222 🔗

This article from Unherd sets out the truth about care homes which to my mind confirms the world’s governments’ intention to kill off as many over 60s as they can.!

https://unherd.com/2020/08/how-covid-exposed-the-worlds-lack-of-care/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3

89006 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #393 of 1222 🔗

It has been alleged East Kilbride NHS Hospital instructed senior staff to place DNARs on all admissions over 45. This was spoken by UK Column on Monday 10 Aug.
I’ve not been able to source the claim. The NHS Staff were told of disciplinary action if they spoke out.

89136 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Basics, 6, #395 of 1222 🔗

I tire of this kind of unsourced silliness which ends up discrediting rational objections to this massive mess when we’re in. It’s simply not credible. There’s an easy way to debunk this, do a FoI request on the health authority concerned and see how many patients over were resuscitated during the period. The number won’t be zero.

You can also ask yourself why there was such a rapid expansion of ICU facilities at the outset of the panic. Was that because the mysterious ‘they’ wanted maximum fatalities?

89154 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Smith, 4, #396 of 1222 🔗

We have to stay rational, else we’re as bad as the people who’ve caused the problem! The truth will out eventually.

89225 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Jonathan Smith, 4, #397 of 1222 🔗

Yes. They ramped up the production and use of ventilators which were later shown to be killing people.

Whistleblowers were ignored and vilified.

89355 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #398 of 1222 🔗

45????? That is madness..

89494 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #399 of 1222 🔗

But it fits with the recent headline that the over 50s will never return to work.

89003 MDH, replying to MDH, 33, #400 of 1222 🔗

Just received a letter from my mum’s care home. Three pages to say… nothing much really. It seems they are allowing visitors, in the garden, and for 15 minutes pre-booked. Not much use to my mum, as she is bedridden and hasn’t been outside in about three years.

You get to the end of the letter and it says.. in fact the home has to remain closed until the end of August because of a “case” in late July. I wonder if I’ll ever be able to see my mum again, except when she’s on her deathbed. And even then, I doubt it.

No-one is taking any responsibility for this disgraceful state of affairs. No-one. Have they no shame? No decency? What have we come to as a society?

Everyone wearing a mask in the street, everyone doing the Covid shuffle, is contributing to the continuation of this nonsense – complicit in the denial of the most basic freedoms to their fellow citizens. My mum might as well be in prison, or dead. She has dementia and can barely see or hear.

I really am at the point of despair. One day, hope will be gone. And then what?

89014 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to MDH, 19, #401 of 1222 🔗

On my darkest days (today not being one of them thankfully) I have come to the conclusion that there are only two ways out of this:

  1. Death
  2. Lifelong total enslavement

Take your pick.

89036 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Richard O, 17, #402 of 1222 🔗

I’m an old radical at heart, so despite hoping for a peaceful retirement before all this shite, maybe revolution is the Third Way…

89046 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to MDH, 20, #403 of 1222 🔗

I won’t be leaving here without a fight. There are also aspects that are perversely enjoyable and amusing e.g. the exposure of our entire civilisation as the complete crock of shit that it has always been. We are so privileged to bear witness to this first hand, regardless of how it turns out for us individually and collectively.

89057 ▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to MDH, 7, #404 of 1222 🔗

Well it’s the first way reversed really, kill before being killed

89456 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to MDH, 2, #405 of 1222 🔗

Hopefully people are slowly seeing thru the shite, Great speech by young girl on the steps of St. Georges Hall Liverpool, People go mad collectively and become sane individually.

89501 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MDH, #406 of 1222 🔗

When you ain’t got nothing, you got nothing left to lose.

89330 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 4, #407 of 1222 🔗

3 Resist.
4 Resist.
5 Resist.

If you give up, the filth have won. Don’t let them.

89498 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #408 of 1222 🔗

Yes!
Vive la resistance!!

89024 ▶▶ Liam, replying to MDH, 10, #409 of 1222 🔗

Sickening and absolutely enraging. My heart goes out to you.

89037 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MDH, 12, #410 of 1222 🔗

Jesus wept.

Many people have lost their humanity, its disgusting.

89076 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #411 of 1222 🔗

It seems like the majority have Bart,I have seen and heard so much today that has made me angry and broken my heart in equal measures

89089 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to MDH, 11, #412 of 1222 🔗

Is your Mum a self funder? If yes then I’d seriously consider stopping payments. She and you are not getting the service you are paying for and her human rights are being withheld. Tell them no more payments until you get to see her.

89113 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to MDH, 6, #413 of 1222 🔗

Have look at the Government’s guidance etc to acre homes – I did post a link to it last week I think as someone else was having similar problems.

It basically says that care homes have to look at them welfare of patients/residents when deciding on visits and that takes precedent if no visits causes them harm.

89191 ▶▶ alw, replying to MDH, #415 of 1222 🔗

Again get in touch with Simon Dolan or Francis Hoar:
simon@keepbritainfree.com

89329 ▶▶ annie, replying to MDH, 5, #416 of 1222 🔗

NEVER lose hope. Get angry.
I would go to the care home, demand to see your mum, and if refused, shout blue murder. Record everything that happrns and send the recording to your MP, to Simon Dolan, to Peter Hitchens, and put it on you tube if you can.

89013 Marie Larsson, replying to Marie Larsson, 3, #417 of 1222 🔗

World Leaders “Copied Each Others’ Lockdown Measures” – New Paperlink to paper: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/08/10/2010625117

89322 ▶▶ annie, replying to Marie Larsson, 4, #418 of 1222 🔗

That was screamingly obvious from day 1. Everybody else was in the team, so ickle baby UK had to be in it too.
What’s important to stress is that the copycats were copying a brutal communist dictatorship. And by God, they copied well. Australia in particular, ugh.

89029 Tinxx, 2, #419 of 1222 🔗

Join the dots…
Name the 5 countries with the most absurd restrictions and apparently incoherent strategies. Now think of a common collective term for these same countries increasingly used by the media over the last couple of years . In the words of the (commoner) Berkow….. “…the Ayes have it the (5) Ayes have it!

89034 Allen, replying to Allen, 4, #420 of 1222 🔗

The entirety of the phony narrative hinges on the validity of the PCR tests. As that is proven to be unreliable and a diagnostic fraud the narrative crumbles. The increase in testing is only a part of the fraud.

So Why Are Cases & Hospitalizations Continuing to Rise?
It is important to understand the difference between SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19. The scientific name of the new strain of coronavirus is SARS-CoV-2. After much naming instability, the disease caused by this new strain is called Coronavirus Disease 2019 or COVID-19.

Thus, it is important to realize that once testing is done to determine whether a person is positive for SARS-CoV-2, the patient must then have symptoms consistent with COVID-19 before being counted as a COVID case.

Professional medical training and practice dictates that for a person to be diagnosed with an infection, they must have lab evidence of the infection AND symptoms to support the diagnosis.

This distinction is very important as a person can have detectable levels of the SARS-CoV-2 virus and NOT present with any symptoms. This is possible in the case of a person who had contracted the virus as much as 6 weeks prior, gone through natural adaptive immunity processes to defeat the infection, and now has harmless remnant proteins still present in their body.

For example, an individual may test positive for Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) and not have AIDS. Similarly, an individual may test positive for SARS-CoV-2 and not have COVID-19.

In order for a case to be classified as COVID-19 there must be symptoms to support the diagnosis by a licensed professional. Lab testing alone and symptom evaluation alone violates accepted professional standards for differential diagnosis in medical practice.13
In addition to what is stated above, there are several factors to consider regarding why we are seeing increases in cases and hospitalizations in addition to what was stated above:

  • The dramatic increase in testing;
  • Contact Tracers diagnosing Americans as COVID-19 positive without examination, evidence, or even being required to speak to a patient as allowed for by the CDC’s April 14th adoption of the CSTE’s position paper;
  • June 13th CDC changes to hospital guidelines for testing in hospitals that creates the opportunity for the same patient being counted multiple times as a new case;
  • Confirmed & Probable COVID-19 hospitalized cases being counted as COVID-19 cases regardless of the reason for their admission into the hospital.


Increases in Testing
comment image

This graph shows how the number of PCR molecular tests processed continues to increase almost daily. Monthly Testing Averages:

  • April – 167,477 people tested per day;
  • May – 345,361 people tested per day;
  • June – 547,480 people tested per day;
  • July – 696,396 people tested per day thru July 12th.

More people are testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 per day, and thousands more people are being tested per day. Due to the significant increase in number of people being tested, the overall percentage of people testing positive dropped from a peak of 19.6% on April 12th to 7.8% on July 12th.

Changes In Hospital Testing Protocols & The Inclusion Of COVID-19 Probable Hospitalizations

With the abundant availability of PCR molecular testing, most hospitals in the country have adopted the policy of testing all hospital admissions for the SARS-CoV-2 virus upon admission to the hospital regardless of why that person is being admitted.

People admitted for elective surgeries are required to be tested. People admitted for injuries or accidents are being tested. People in need of care for chronic comorbid conditions are being tested, and so forth.

If a person tests positive for presence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, regardless of symptom presentation or reason for admission, they are now officially counted as a COVID-19 hospitalized case. This change in policy, never undertaken before, makes it now almost impossible to distinguish between people being admitted for COVID-19 symptoms and people being admitted who simply tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, but are being admitted for reasons other than COVID-19 symptomatology.

As a result, under this methodology of data categorization, hospital numbers have risen and will continue to rise until there are substantive changes to how data is being reported that allows everyone to clearly distinguish between the two vastly different new patient scenarios.

More here:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/if-covid-fatalities-were-90-2-lower-how-would-you-feel-about-schools-reopening/?fbclid=IwAR36Dm6y6tjRImqdSSU2N57y6gIDqLhBiTyjJkXmcXMGqhtCbOLJ9fUV7_Y

89039 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Allen, -8, #421 of 1222 🔗

Yeah, we know all that, your new point is?

89120 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sylvie, 6, #422 of 1222 🔗

I think it’s a very useful summary.

89250 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lms23, -2, #423 of 1222 🔗

For the USA.
The poster doesn’t make clear that the figures and graph aren’t relevant to the UK. Numbers of hospital admissions, CV19 testing regimes are driven by completely different financial incentives there and do not apply to the UK. I wondered if he had a better point to make.

89509 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #424 of 1222 🔗

Some of our members are from the US.

89350 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sylvie, 1, #425 of 1222 🔗

I didn’t know that anyone who went into hospital and tested positive was counted as a “Covid hospitalisation”. If true that’s gratuitous destruction of what would otherwise be meaningful data.

89354 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, -3, #426 of 1222 🔗

Exactly, it’s a poster from the USA, but unless you’re alert to their spelling conventions (ize for ise) or expand the teeny writing in the graph you don’t know it !

89381 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 1, #427 of 1222 🔗

Interesting to know about the USA as well though.

I usually use -ize myself but not to the extent of fighting Android over it if I’m using the phone.

As does Prince Charles apparently and he often has to defend his decision.

89531 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to guy153, 1, #428 of 1222 🔗

“As does Prince Charles apparently and he often has to defend his decision.”

Does he not have a flunky to correct things like this 😉

89645 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Ewan Duffy, #429 of 1222 🔗

HRH is right though. -ize is good English English, soon to be the King’s English no less. Any respectable dictionary will confirm this.

89407 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, -2, #430 of 1222 🔗

That’s what I like, a small and unexpected addition to my sum of knowledge!

89510 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, #431 of 1222 🔗

It becomes obvious as you read it. What is your problem?

89525 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 1, #432 of 1222 🔗

I’ve always assumed it, though now I think about it I have no evidence. The only thing I can point to is the wording of the presentation of the numbers,which is along the lines of “people admitted to hospital with a positive test” with no mention of Covid symptoms. I may be over-cynical.

89140 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Allen, 4, #433 of 1222 🔗

HIV isn’t a good example of asymptomatic infection to use, since everyone infected will 1) Never eliminate the virus their body and 2) will go on to develop immunodeficiency unless treated with daily antiretrovirals. For the vast majority infection with SARS covid 2 is temporary causing at most minor symptoms and often absolutely nothing at all.

89041 ambwozere, replying to ambwozere, 15, #434 of 1222 🔗

Just read my employers return to work guidance, I’m now officially depressed.

“All staff and students are expected to wear a face covering when not in their classrooms/offices/designated work area. Face masks will be provided although you are welcome to use your own covering if you prefer. We recognise that some people will not be able to/are exempt from wearing a face covering and we are looking at a discreet way of identifying these individuals to safeguard them from constant, embarrassing challenge.”

Now as someone who has deliberately been avoiding anywhere where I would have to wear a mask/covering this is unwelcome news. Not necessarily unexpected but unwelcome and leaving me unsure as to how to deal with it.

I don’t particularly want a medical exemption put on my work record/HR file. Arghh.

89062 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to ambwozere, 1, #435 of 1222 🔗

Is that British university?

89105 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to JulieR, 2, #436 of 1222 🔗

FE college

89069 ▶▶ Paul, replying to ambwozere, 13, #437 of 1222 🔗

looking at a discreet way of identifying these individuals ‘,like a big sign saying ‘unclean’ for instance ?.

89071 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Paul, 13, #438 of 1222 🔗

Big yellow star?

89075 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #439 of 1222 🔗

Sorry my thought exactly.

89074 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Paul, 7, #440 of 1222 🔗

Suggest a bell or a yellow start to be worn.

89106 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Paul, 5, #441 of 1222 🔗

I thought that, why should that person need to be identified.

89349 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, 3, #442 of 1222 🔗

Since when was an employer allowed to force you to disclose your medical history and tell your colleagues?

89706 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, #443 of 1222 🔗

Take them to the Human Rights Commission, if it still exists. The one in Quebec stinks.

89070 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to ambwozere, 15, #444 of 1222 🔗

Don’t they have to provide risk assessment for wearing masks?
If it is Ok to sit in the classroom without a mask what is the difference if you don’t have it on in the corridor? They must provide answers.

89108 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to JulieR, 4, #445 of 1222 🔗

Yes that’s a good point, they’re working on the theory of “bubbles” for the students, guess they’re not aware they’re probably all mixing outside of college anyway. And the same for staff if you work in a staffroom with 7 others these people are in your “bubble”. I suppose outside of the “bubbles” you’re potentially mixing with others even though you still have to socially distance and follow the wonderous one way systems around the buildings.

89518 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JulieR, #446 of 1222 🔗

Distancing!

89073 ▶▶ MDH, replying to ambwozere, 5, #447 of 1222 🔗

Are you in a union? If it’s anything like mine it’s probably towing the party line, but it is there to protect your rights and dignity in the workplace. The “discreet way of identifying” thing is, IMHO, the very definition of undignified. Complain.

89101 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to MDH, 2, #448 of 1222 🔗

I’m not in the admin Union, never had any need to be.

89095 ▶▶ annie, replying to ambwozere, 7, #449 of 1222 🔗

So Covid doesn’t spread in classrooms, offices or designated work areas?

89102 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to annie, 9, #450 of 1222 🔗

Well we know it’s a very clever considerate virus.

89104 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to annie, 6, #451 of 1222 🔗

Covid is a very clever virus in that it becomes more infectious at certain times of day or even weeks and at other times it ignores you completely.

89479 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #452 of 1222 🔗

And it seems to choose a date at will to strike.

89520 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #453 of 1222 🔗

Not at will. Whatever the government has decided.

89109 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to ambwozere, 2, #454 of 1222 🔗

Survey says: Wear a Yellow Star

89129 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to ambwozere, 5, #455 of 1222 🔗

The face covering campaign has really taken on a life of its own.

Wish we could be so effective in the anti-bullshit campaign, alas – a lot less money involved on this side.

89144 ▶▶ tonys, replying to ambwozere, 2, #456 of 1222 🔗

Just don’t challenge anybody, constantly or otherwise you puffed up mask nazi’s and then no one will be embarrassed.

89195 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to tonys, 1, #457 of 1222 🔗

There will be an expectation I’m sure for staff to challenge students who are not wearing masks. We’re supposed to challenge them if they’re not wearing their lanyards (safeguarding reasons).

89521 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ambwozere, #458 of 1222 🔗

Would you object to wearing a lanyard? Solidarity with the students …..

89477 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ambwozere, #459 of 1222 🔗

I don’t think an exemption because you can’t wear a muzzle will go into your work record/HR file. I’m claiming exemption because I can’t wear a muzzle even the visors at work and I seriously doubt that’s in my file.

89516 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ambwozere, #460 of 1222 🔗

We recognise that some people will not be able to/are exempt from wearing a face covering and we are looking at a discreet way of identifying these individuals to safeguard them from constant, embarrassing challenge.”

That is illegal! Huge fines involved.

89043 Toby Pierides, replying to Toby Pierides, 22, #461 of 1222 🔗

Visit to local library (actually happened today):-

Gestapo Entrance Guardian:
“What is the purpose of your visit?”

Us:
“I’m sorry?!”

GEG:
“What do you want to do here?”

Us:
“Er, borrow some books…That’s what people do here, right?!”

Got a feeling that this reaction had more to do with us both wearing mask exemption lanyards accompanied by sardonic grins…

89096 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Toby Pierides, 6, #462 of 1222 🔗

We had a similar problem when we went to the library I was so enraged to be treated as if I was a plague carrier I told him in no uncertain terms I will not be using the library ever again and I won’t be!

89044 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 5, #463 of 1222 🔗

The government continues to return to the Ferguson clique’s poisoned well.

89053 ▶▶ Julian, replying to richard riewer, 10, #464 of 1222 🔗

They have to, or admit they were wrong.

89049 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 9, #465 of 1222 🔗

The Care Home scandals. Manslaughter or Murder?

89054 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to richard riewer, 9, #466 of 1222 🔗

Definitely Murder. You don’t put infected people in with vulnerable elderly citizens unless you want to harm them!

89063 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to richard riewer, 8, #467 of 1222 🔗

Murder (malice aforethought) – it was intentional, in my view.

89072 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to richard riewer, 8, #468 of 1222 🔗

Murder and it didn’t just happen here either.

89090 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Chicot, 10, #469 of 1222 🔗

In fact a world wide decision seems to have been taken to cull us. The masking is just being used to make life as difficult as possible because its medically proven to not stop viruses. The politicians must be laughing their socks off at the masses meekly wearing their masks like cowed slaves. What we need is a massive collective push back. Building a scaffold outside Parliament might focus the power mad cowards attentions.

Bill Gates and his father were proponents of population control.

89138 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #470 of 1222 🔗

If you want to artificially bump up the death toll then what better way than to ensure that the most vulnerable people in society are infected? Remove the care home deaths and the labelling of more or less everything as “Covid” and suddenly the Covid death count doesn’t look anything like as scary.

89345 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, #471 of 1222 🔗

On the subject of BG, I saw a couple of posts on Twitter that ‘kiddy porn’ had been found at his house yesterday morning – anyone else see those?

89707 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bella Donna, #472 of 1222 🔗

We need some armoured tanks.

89725 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Chicot, 1, #473 of 1222 🔗

Right. Some places on the east coast of the US played a blinder – health officials removed their friends & loved ones from the nursing homes, before ordering the transportation of sick & covid-19 patients to be put in them. In Pennsylvania, families are finding out have little right to complain about this policy; on the grounds the chief Health officer is a trans woman..therefore every complaint against her is turned around on the family, and they can be investigated for a transphobic hate crime.

89087 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to richard riewer, 1, #474 of 1222 🔗

Murder.

89130 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to richard riewer, 2, #475 of 1222 🔗

Genocide, or war crimes.

89143 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to richard riewer, 3, #476 of 1222 🔗

Crime against Humanity. It wasn’t like this risk wasn’t already known.

89174 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to richard riewer, 2, #477 of 1222 🔗

I’m afraid it is definitely manslaughter. The people making the decisions are essentially chess players that can only think zero moves ahead. The focus was clear the hospitals, result not contemplated until it happened. Zero-strategy short-term thinking by bumbling incompetent psychopaths.

89621 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #478 of 1222 🔗

I wonder.
Caring for the elderly, whether in ‘homes’ (= prisons) or in the ‘community’, is very expensive. There were complaints about it all the time before the present bollox started.
Killing off the elderly and blaming Covid, which can’t be sued, indicted, investigated, fined or sacked, is a very, very convenient way of cutting down that crippling expense. And they’re still at it, killing with neglect, calculated cruelty and mental torture. Think of all the money they’re saving.

89781 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to annie, #479 of 1222 🔗

You are assuming that they give a shit about care homes being expensive. They don’t. The only thing they really care about their personal troughing potential. They have no interest in public finances or they wouldn’t be doing things like pissing ten billion pounds up the wall on T&T. They are too stupid to pull off a conspiracy to kill old people.

89065 Basics, 8, #480 of 1222 🔗

NZ camps. If you refuse to be tested you will never leave. Here’s a video of Ardern giving her rules with a smarm and a smile. Hand gestures of a very young and media influenced person.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1293400780167208960

89066 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 15, #481 of 1222 🔗

Jason McCartney MP 35 m ·
No change to the household restrictions across Kirklees, will be reviewed again next week.
So separate households still can’t mix indoors or gardens apart from support bubbles.
Will use local data to continue to make the case for areas with no cases to have restrictions eased.

There were NO “cases” in the whole of Kirklees yesterday and only one on Wednesday.

To top it all, my son has just learned that his mountain-biking trip to the Alps is going to fall through because of the latest political silly business and he can’t get fully refunded. He noted that they’re bringing it in just in time to scupper a lot of holidays at the bank holiday weekend.

I’m absolutely fuming now!

89100 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #482 of 1222 🔗

Sorry to hear about your son’s plans… I’m fuming with you!

Did they give any reason at all for not changing the Kirklees restrictions?

89126 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #483 of 1222 🔗

They never explain their irrational decisions, so doubt it. And when they do ‘explain’ them, it’s just lies.

89528 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #484 of 1222 🔗

Apparently there was an “uptick” in Kirklees infections.

I sent this to my MP:
50 positive test results out of a population of 450,000 seems a very small “uptick” to me.

12-08-2020 0
11-08-2020 1
10-08-2020 24
09-08-2020 11
08-08-2020 14
Source: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Kirklees

To his credit he checked out the link.

89142 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #485 of 1222 🔗

Same in my part of Calderdale but even if there were ‘cases’ piling up right left and centre it would not justify one iota of this insane lockdown

89529 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to tonys, #486 of 1222 🔗

They’re like a cat tormenting a mouse.

Because they can.
Cruel psychopaths!

89093 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 17, #487 of 1222 🔗

From ONS: “COVID-19 was the third most frequent underlying cause of death in June 2020 (after Dementia and Alzheimer disease and Ischaemic heart diseases), with 7.1% of all deaths (2,525 deaths) due to COVID-19; this was a large decrease compared with the proportion seen in May, when COVID-19 was the most frequent underlying cause of death and accounted for 21.6% of all deaths.”

So, unless there has been a dramatic change in the distribution of causes of death, we can draw two conclusions:
1) 80% of people died of something else
2) Of those attributed to Covid in May, around 70% had Dementia, Alzheimer or Ischaemic heart diseases.

It seems obvious to me that this change in June was actually due to correcting a misdiagnosis.

I am also curious how the lockdown has reduced the incidence of dementia, alzheimer, heart disease, cancer, and stroke as a cause of death, to below their five year average, for each of them. The only possible conclusion is that Covid displaced all these other diseases as the reported cause of death. Either that, or Covid is a cure for dementia.

89107 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to WhyNow, 1, #488 of 1222 🔗

I suspect that a significant number of people in those categories were already culled in April.

89164 ▶▶ annie, replying to WhyNow, 3, #489 of 1222 🔗

It isn’t, but all the dementia has migrated to the government.

89097 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 71, #490 of 1222 🔗

Sad comment to Francis Hoar’s mask article from Toby’s links. The sceptics are growing in number but so are those who’ve had enough, and they’ll be the next ones to start questioning!

To walk around near empty high streets, and being forbidden to enter by most small retailers because of a lack of a face mask, utterly beggars belief. They are slowly dying for lack of trade, yet are so zealously over reacting to the miniscule threat that they will stop a customer with money to spend from entering their shop. My poor daughter was even refused service in a small gift shop because she only had cash and they would not accept it. She is 10 years old for god’s sake. What message is that teaching anyone?

Today it is hot so the local high street is completely bare of shoppers as face coverings are just far too oppressive. To think that a conservative government is overseeing this complete madness. I cannot see this recession ending any time soon -in fact I am more despondent each day that this assault on our liberty continues. Genuinely unable to stay positive at all, especially when I am indeed confronted by strangers, often with the worst fitting piece of cloth over their faces, shouting at me to not be selfish and wear a mask. Not be selfish? We are struggling to hang onto a small family business and are unable to pay for most bills we now face. We have lost around 70% of our personal income this year for a virus that would almost certainly have caused no more harm had we left lockdown completely by now. And all in the name of keeping the country safe. I don’t think I am selfish at all in now not wanting to wear a pointless scarf round my head. Like most people I have given enough of my life and my joy and my dreams to this pointless pantomime.

89119 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #491 of 1222 🔗

I suspect people are going to start standing in the doorway, taking out some money and waving it.

“Do you want my money then? Well I’ll not be wearing a mask”

Just watch. People will be incentivised

89158 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #492 of 1222 🔗

I thought cash, being legal tender, had to be accepted by businesses. Is that not the case, or maybe it never was?

89175 ▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Tenchy, 6, #493 of 1222 🔗

”Legal tender” only applies for settlement of debts where a court order has been made. A shop or indeed anyone can specify how they wish to be paid. Unfortunately, there is no law to say a shop must accept cash.

89634 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hammer Onats, #494 of 1222 🔗

Notes used to contain the wording “Legal tender for all debts, public or private”. Or similar. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago that quietly disappeared.

89732 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Tenchy, 1, #495 of 1222 🔗

A business has the right to refuse any legal tender, though obviously they will not give you the goods.

Have come across similar myself – Lots of places refusing cash, quite bizarre when the BoE said earlier in the year, using cash is “ no greater [risk] than touching any other common surface, such as handrails, doorknobs or credit cards…” and the Bank for International Settlements published a paper (Covid, cash, and the future of payments) in which they stated: “ To date, there are no known cases of Covid-19 transmission via banknotes or coins. The fact that the virus survives best on non-porous materials, such as plastic or stainless steel, means that debit or credit card terminals or PIN pads could transmit the virus…”
https://www.bis.org/publ/bisbull03.pdf

89163 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #496 of 1222 🔗

Be strong, shout back at them. Do they want the country to go broke? Who’s going to look after their precious NHS then? Do they want cancer patients to die? Lots you can shout. Shout it. Deafen the filthy gits.

89356 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #497 of 1222 🔗

And there is the reason the UK is suffering a worse economic downturn than other countries.
We are vastly overstocked with bedwetters, Karens and gauleiters.

89098 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 14, #498 of 1222 🔗

Here is an excellent therapy for any extreemly frustrated sceptics out there who find posting in here just isn’t enough…

Its helping me a little as I’v just stuck one in my car rear window.

open the banner I’ve pinched from above into a new tab, print it in landscape – I had to change ‘scale’ in ‘more settings’ to ‘customised 87’

comment image

I feel much better for now and am looking forward to driving around delivering food this evening – while spreading the good word

89124 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Major Panic, 7, #499 of 1222 🔗

Problem is I don’t want to save Boris, he’s part of the problem.

89125 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to ambwozere, 1, #500 of 1222 🔗

erm…. keh?

89156 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to ambwozere, #501 of 1222 🔗

great, what is it you do want to do, can I help?

89484 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to ambwozere, 1, #502 of 1222 🔗

It’s me who came up with the phrase, and others have kindly turned it into the excellent graphic. I designed something similar in my amateur way, but, thankfully, I couldn’t upload it.
I think none of us want to save Boris. We are being ironic! By remaining afraid and by Boris controlling us, he remains in power. If we refuse to be afraid, and, by using things like this sign, encouraging others to be unafraid of the vanishing virus and of the government, then Boris can no longer control the people and be seen as the **** that he is (and I voted for his party!) and thus he will be finished.

89161 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to Major Panic, 4, #503 of 1222 🔗

It should be “SAVE LIES” instead of lives. Would make more sense.

89167 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to RDawg, 3, #504 of 1222 🔗

excellent – well I’ve just printed off what was available as a banner – if someone produces a better banner I’ll print that off and desplay it in my car – at least its doing something, how ever tiny – better than doing FA

89170 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Major Panic, #505 of 1222 🔗

Just need to find a company that can print guerilla stickers. I’ll buy them.

89112 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, #506 of 1222 🔗

I’ve been searching for the exemption lanyard link and cannot find it. Help please.

89123 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bella Donna, #507 of 1222 🔗

If its for Hidden Disabilities someone posted on Twitter that they’d run out and were awaiting more to arrivem

89149 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to ambwozere, 1, #508 of 1222 🔗

Thanks.

89137 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #509 of 1222 🔗

Sainsbury’s are giving away the sunflower lanyard for free.

89150 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Margaret, 1, #510 of 1222 🔗

Really? I’ll pop there then, thanks.

89631 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Bella Donna, #511 of 1222 🔗

Ask at their customer service desk. They just get it for you.

89153 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #512 of 1222 🔗

Or just print out the government one or download it to your phone.

89116 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 24, #513 of 1222 🔗

Great quote from Cuomo:

‘Isolate people but really isolate the vulnerable people. Don’t isolate everyone because some people, most people, are not vulnerable to it.’

It’s only taken him nearly 6 months to work this one out…

89740 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #514 of 1222 🔗

Cuomo is great.. waxing lyrical about his reduction in incarceration rate of violent criminals in New York – while shootings in 2020 are almost identical to the last 2 years. ADDED TOGETHER.

89122 Suitejb, 35, #515 of 1222 🔗

It’s remarkably easy to instill fear and anxiety in people. I volunteer one day a week in an office in a nearby town where there has been a cluster of cases in a large factory. A number of organisations use our office and many staff have been working at home so the place is very quiet and perfectly adequate protection is in place.
The other day I received a phone call from one of the staff – in view of the local outbreak – to re-assure me that my working environment was safe, all processes were in place to ensure minimal risk, he didn’t want me to be worried, they were keeping an eye on the situation etc etc.
I hadn’t been remotely worried before, but when I put the phone down I found myself thinking for a moment, ‘should I be worried’? Obviously I shook myself out of that thought but it made me realise how the site of a mass of people wearing masks also makes me think there is something to fear. It’s a clever psychological trick that I’m not falling for!

89135 Jane, replying to Jane, 20, #516 of 1222 🔗

My son just heard his term abroad in a french university is cancelled as it is not ‘essential travel’ according to the FCO. So education is not essential?
this Government is completely incompetent, it’s just a mystery why they are behaving in such a bumbling inept way. They have ruined my son’s year and now his future employment prospects will be blighted for who knows how long.
why aren’t there more protests about this? Why do people still believe this virus is so dangerous?

89151 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Jane, 7, #517 of 1222 🔗

Really sad, as a linguist the time abroad is essential. I’ve no idea why people won’t protest. I live in the fascist north west and no one is up in arms about the two week extension to restrictions.

89309 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jane, 5, #518 of 1222 🔗

Because people are fools. And knaves. And brutes. And they will pay dearly for it in the end.

Could your son do a postgrad year in France maybe?Or something of the sort? Bonne chance, n’en démordez pas, on les aura!

89686 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Jane, #519 of 1222 🔗

Tell your son to organise student protests. I told my daughter to do it if she is not happy with next year university arrangements but I doubt she will.
Students were protesting in large numbers for BLM but will not protect about their future because in is not supported by social media.

89157 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 1, #520 of 1222 🔗

Going to pizza express for dinner tonight. Any ideas what to expect covipanic wise?

89176 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Moomin, #521 of 1222 🔗

If Leeds, give the waitress a big tip, it could be my daughter!

If like Beefeater, one way in, one way out, ask to go toilet. A lot of cleaning and waitress will put tray on table for you to take plates off. There may be a smaller than normal menu?

89240 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 2, #522 of 1222 🔗

It’s Skipton. Have to eat outside as going with a friend but in this weather that’s fine. Soooo angry at Hancock and the dept of lies (health)!

89745 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Moomin, #523 of 1222 🔗

Healthy lies.

89177 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Moomin, 1, #524 of 1222 🔗

MADE WELCOME! MADE TO FEEL SAFE!! ENJOY!!!

89182 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Moomin, #525 of 1222 🔗

Bruschetta followed by a pepperoni pizza, bottle of beer

89188 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Moomin, #526 of 1222 🔗

It wasn’t too bad. Much better than Ask. They at least had music. Ask was like the atmosphere in a doctor’s waiting room.

89241 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Lockdown Truth, #527 of 1222 🔗

Thanks for the replies

89361 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Moomin, 2, #528 of 1222 🔗

Look out for blokes on other tables that don’t sweat!

89376 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Moomin, 2, #529 of 1222 🔗

We went with friends the other night – was actually a decent experience. Besides the irritating paperless menus (you have to scan a QR code and get a digital menu up – what if a patron doesn’t have a smartphone or is not dining with anyone who has one?) it was a refreshingly normal experience. No horrendous plastic screens between tables or one-way systems.

89389 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 2, #530 of 1222 🔗

Another reason for killing off the elderly is because fewer of them own smartphones..

89744 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Moomin, #531 of 1222 🔗

Covipanic pizza. Blecch!

89159 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #532 of 1222 🔗

Is it all about 7.5 billion people accepting their dodgy vaccines?

89160 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #533 of 1222 🔗

That and lifelong poverty/economic dependency for those that “survive”.

89273 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #534 of 1222 🔗

Could be- perhaps not all about – but ‘Kerrr-chinnngg’ does rule the world.

89351 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Dan Clarke, #535 of 1222 🔗

Who’s going to pay for 7.5 billion vaccines? Especially now they’ve kiboshed the global economy.

89162 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 13, #536 of 1222 🔗

Just ventured into our local town, Loughborough, not been for sometime but had to go to the bank for a statement. Needed an up to date one for our solicitor with regard to our house move.
A most depressing sight in town. 95% muzzled in the streets.
Had to wait outside the bank with 2 staff on the door masked and gloved, there was only 1 teller on the counter, so a lengthy wait. Didn’t know until today but the bank has gone back to its 3pm closing time. The manager came to the front of the bank, unmasked, we were ushered in & directed upstairs. We had already told one of the door staff that we needed the statement so think they were trying to get thru the queue.
Anyway, upstairs & a member of staff was taken aback that we were there & was hurriedly putting her mask on. “You don’t need to do that for us” we said.
She stopped & heaved a huge sigh of relief. We were taken into a small room & sat at a desk with a perspex screen between us. “I can move that out of the way if you’d like” she said. It didn’t bother us. We then proceeded to have a lovely conversation about things in general. I thanked her for being normal, she said that there was little chance of us catching anything there!
Well that was great to hear.
On our way out I commented about the early closing & the madness of Covid she replied that it wasn’t going to end anytime soon & lockdown was bonkers!
Back outside & still 90% muzzled… sad again.

89166 ▶▶ annie, replying to smileymiley, 10, #537 of 1222 🔗

But there are these sane people, like your advisor, lurking, just longing for change. We show them it can be done. You don’t need to wear a filthy rag over your mouth. Neither do they.
Stick at it.

89543 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to smileymiley, 3, #538 of 1222 🔗

Muzzled outside before it’s mandatory is extremely worrying!

89615 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #539 of 1222 🔗

It’s sucking on the dummy.
Some big babies just never grow out of it.

89168 annie, replying to annie, 12, #540 of 1222 🔗

To a Zombie
by
Annie Burns

Great slobbran, cowran, tim’rous beastie,
O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!
Wi’ endless squowk o ‘virus spreadan’
And sik like prattle!
I am sae fain tae bash thy heid in
Wi’ murd’ring pattle!

I hate tae see Zombie dominion
Has broken down all social union,
An’ justifies that ill opinion
I have of thee,
Thou poor, thou grovellan’ worm’s companion,
Sae fou’ tae see!

I doubt much if thou hast a face:
Nae mouth, nae nose, a mere blank space,
Greetin’ wi’ fear o’ human kind,
Thou hideous devil!
What ghastly poison’s in thy mind,
What sink o’ evil?

But Zombie, think just once again:
A’ thy false thinkin’ may be vain:
The best laid schemes o’ Fascist men
Will gang agley
An’ leave thee nought but grief an’ pain,
For a’ they say!

For I am blest, compar’d wi’ thee!
Fause terror only toucheth thee:
But Och! I forward cast my e’e,
In constant hope,
An’ forward lookin’, I can see
For thee a rope!

89178 ▶▶ Edna, replying to annie, 2, #541 of 1222 🔗

Absolutely brilliant! Thank you!

89187 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to annie, 1, #542 of 1222 🔗

Witty, poignant and apt! It made me smile.

89201 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to annie, 1, #543 of 1222 🔗

Great stuff! Thank you. My favourite poem ever and you have done it proud. I’m sure Rabbie would be delighted!

89772 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to annie, #544 of 1222 🔗

Aboon them a’ ye tak your place, wonderful, thank you. Would love to see your version of ‘The Tay Bridge Disaster’.

For the harsher we our lockdowns do make
The less chance we have of the whole thing being proved a fake!

89169 ikaraki, replying to ikaraki, 11, #545 of 1222 🔗

Well time for another update from a Scottish shop, not so good this time.

General manager is back after isolating since the end of March. Get asked into the office and told I must wear a mask when serving customers, no ifs, buts or maybes. I am not exempt, and will not sully those who are by claiming I am, so the end result is a mutually agreed suspension without pay for three days for me to gather my thoughts and decide what to do, as currently I refuse to wear a mask. Looks like the options are wear a mask when serving customers (they won’t move to an area of the business where I don’t need one, go figure, obviously not as valuable an employee as I thought) or to leave an find another job (not looking so easy given the current climate).

Any idea, thoughts, suggestions, advice or inspiration?

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck!

89173 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to ikaraki, 6, #546 of 1222 🔗

If you can support yourself financially without working for a reasonable length of time, then stick to your guns and resign. Do not be bullied into submission by these people. In my opinion, the price of wearing a mask is way too high (physically, psychologically and even spiritually) to sacrifice your principles for financial expediency.

89184 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Richard O, 10, #547 of 1222 🔗

I can survive short term, and have a set of skills that should ensure some employment prospects, but I would be asking favours rather than living off my own back.

I agree that getting bullied into submission is wrong, even had my Dad and brother saying I should just wear one. Not even going to start on the discussion there..

Glad to hear you feel the same about sacrificing principles!

89205 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to ikaraki, 5, #548 of 1222 🔗

It’s important, it really is. You will be degrading and demeaning yourself in ways that will be extremely expensive in the long run if you submit. Fuck everybody who is pressuring you to comply.

I am fortunate in that I have enough savings to live for at least a year (hyperinflation notwithstanding) without income. Also, I can work effectively from home, and have a very good relationship with my employer whom I have been with for 20 years. All the choices I made to stay single and avoid financial burdens over many decades are now reaping tremendous rewards. Now I know why I made these decisions. It was all leading to this.

89270 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Richard O, 4, #549 of 1222 🔗

Thanks, the bubbling of the regret I know I will feel if I submit has already appeared. Been very tiring the last few months, being so opposed to the current nonsense and trying to highlight those views to my sphere of influence has taken it out of me. Need to purge that weakness.. Ha!

It is a shame that if I earn X I will spend X + 1, oh and I lost the oil and gas job (got my morality back the same time though, definite win).

89280 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to ikaraki, 8, #550 of 1222 🔗

The legal advice you have been provided with here by other contributors speaks for itself, and is a wise approach. Make this as expensive for your employer as you possibly can (energetically if not financially). It does make a difference.

Stay strong, you are absolutely in the right. The choice before you is partaking in a Satanic black magic occult transformation ritual for pecuniary gain versus standing steadfastly in the truth and letting the chips fall where they may.

89315 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Richard O, 4, #551 of 1222 🔗

I can definitely waste their energy, never thought of it that way..

Yup, better advice so far than anything I’ve had from family and friends.

89207 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to ikaraki, 11, #552 of 1222 🔗

Mason mills is saying masks gone in 8-10 weeks and that was two weeks ago…Stay strong.

89217 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Two-Six, 5, #553 of 1222 🔗

It would be lovely if true, but seems highly improbable given every other signal from this and other governments. Why on earth should we believe “Mason Mills”, who strikes me as a hoaxer?

89233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Julian, 1, #554 of 1222 🔗

Hehehe, did wonder about that account, the bio is (or was, not looking again) very arrogant and pompous!

89323 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #555 of 1222 🔗

Mason Mills – whatever one thinks of him – does seem to provide accurate info.. Am still waiting for his predictions re the migrant boat farce to come true though…

89560 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 1, #556 of 1222 🔗

He did say the date the mask mandate was coming in on before it was announced officially.

89885 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #557 of 1222 🔗

Hmm. Arguably not hard to predict, lots of people knew. Anyway, I strongly doubt masks will become optional any time soon – they have a review in 6 months and a time limit of a year, no widespread rebellion, half the planet doing it and worse, no opposition in parliament, have publicly stated they will be here for the long term, have just increased fines for non-compliance, have quietly widened it from shops to everywhere indoors, and how on earth can they back out of it and have any credibility now they have said we’re saving lives with them – none of these are signs of moving in the right direction, quite the opposite. Also highly likely that MANY businesses, venues, TOCs, etc etc will mandate them because their employees and unions (noisy minority) will demand them. Another Pandora’s box that the evil bastards opened without knowing how to close.

89218 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Two-Six, 1, #558 of 1222 🔗

Ah, mission creep, all to familiar with that. Dunno but maybe I’ve just learnt to see it. No matter how much I say it, people around me just don’t see it.

89230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to ikaraki, 2, #559 of 1222 🔗

Sorry kinda misread your comment.. Thought about getting time off until the law says we don’t need to wear masks but I don’t trust any timescales. All I see is mission creep.

89297 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Two-Six, 3, #560 of 1222 🔗

That must be when we get the vaccine then. I can hardly wait.

89300 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to guy153, #561 of 1222 🔗

Hehehee..

89319 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, #562 of 1222 🔗

But does that mean only because that is when they will introduce the vaccine?
Out of interest, do you pay for his info? I note the prices are already going up – also that there are now free places on the more expensive of his memberships – makes me wonder if people are dropping out because the info is not worth it…

89605 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, #563 of 1222 🔗

I don’t pay and I don’t do twitter. I have my sources 🙂
Actually it is interesting hearing what MM has to say, it’s the only possibly insider view on the machinations of these government psychopaths. I have no idea if what he says is true but hearing his assurances about mask being for 8 to 10 weeks was the best news I have heard for months.

89608 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, #564 of 1222 🔗

So is there anything else that Mason has been saying that you can reveal Two-Six? Good or bad? Those paying have to observe some rules of Mason’s re confidentiality, so I understand, but you said you’re not paying, so you do not…

89366 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #565 of 1222 🔗

Mason “fuckiing” Mills, are people still falling for his horseshit!

89373 ▶▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Two-Six, 1, #566 of 1222 🔗

He also said back in April that masks would make a good Christmas present…

89384 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, #567 of 1222 🔗

Correct!

89414 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Poppy, 3, #568 of 1222 🔗

How twisted would you have to be to buy someone a mask for Christmas!

89411 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Two-Six, 1, #569 of 1222 🔗

Why on earth would they be? That takes us to the beginning of November – the start of the flu season, and prime time for second wave panic.

It’s annoying that he’s no longer on Twatter. I’m not willing to sign up to his new platform.

89180 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to ikaraki, 20, #570 of 1222 🔗

It clearly causes you distress so you ARE exempt. That is my position too. Just thinking about being forced to wear a mask makes my chest tighten and I want to hit people – distress.

89183 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #571 of 1222 🔗

As you are distressed then you can threaten them for discrimination and that £5,000 fine or whatever it is. Get in touch with Stephen at laworfiction.com

89189 ▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #572 of 1222 🔗

Thought about speaking to a lawyer about it on the drive home, seems like my employer has a number of options they are not willing to take. I will get in touch, there is also the number at the bottom of this blog, will try them too.

89558 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to ikaraki, #573 of 1222 🔗

It may be worth going down the discrimination route, but the legislation covers discrimination against disabilities and other protected characteristics. You would be severely stretching a point to try to include distress caused by wearing a mask in that.

Constructive dismissal seems to me a better bet, though. If there are options where they could put you in a role where you wouldn’t have to wear a mask but they refuse to consider them then you have a case.

Either way, in all likelihood, your employer would settle before your case ever got near a court – too expensive and too much hassle not to.

Only you know how important it is to you to stick to your principles and only you know how easily you can afford it if you lose your job, but if you do decide to stick to your guns, don’t go down without a fight.

Speak to a lawyer though. I don’t know if the ones Toby links to at the top of the page have an HR law specialist, but if they do, they’d be a good bet.

89244 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #574 of 1222 🔗

Yes – good way forward.

89186 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #575 of 1222 🔗

Hmmm, interesting. Will look at the Scottish legislation again the now and check the wording. Work are asking for a doctor’s note in that respect, but on reasonable terms with my practice.

89204 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to ikaraki, 9, #576 of 1222 🔗

You don’t need a doctors note. Your employer is full of SHIT. You cannot get a doctors note.

89208 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Two-Six, 2, #577 of 1222 🔗

Yup, mentioned that. Took the right option and got time to think, meeting was left amicably.

89211 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to ikaraki, 8, #578 of 1222 🔗

Try not to get to upset. This is just insanity. He is insane for demanding this. It is also very cruel and he is a bully. You are right he is VERY VERY wrong. The law is on your side. However I don;t think it will come to that. The law is very clear. If he pushes this he is in some very hot water almost immediately. He might even have put himself in some very shady legal territory already.

89215 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Two-Six, 7, #579 of 1222 🔗

Luckily didn’t. Bit of a hothead, and have gone a bit shouty and angry in the shop a few times (not over this whole fiasco, more on people being idiots in a workshop), so that was the expected result from my manager. Wanted to give him what for, got a mad adrenaline rush but reigned that in.

Wish I had recorded the conversation, might have to in the future. Formal legal advice is my next step.

89232 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to ikaraki, 5, #580 of 1222 🔗

Make sure you either record (and let him know you are recording) or have a trusted person there present with you for any future conversations.

89236 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Sarigan, 1, #581 of 1222 🔗

Good information.

Did hear of a meeting at work where someone was asked specifically if they were recording, and told not to if they were.. Was a disciplinary matter I believe.

89279 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to ikaraki, 2, #582 of 1222 🔗

Try Citizens Advice or ACAS.

89298 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Suitejb, #583 of 1222 🔗

Will do.

89212 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to ikaraki, 2, #584 of 1222 🔗

My manager didn’t even reply, had mentioned previously in the meeting about having a word with his doctor about wearing a mask. His doctor that he has for a lung condition..

89198 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #585 of 1222 🔗

Thanks, your comment on exemption and suggestion of legal advice have got me thinking better again.

Looked at the statutory instrument again, lo and behold, they have changed the wording. Still, definitely mentions ‘severe distress’ and I don’t know about you but the potential loss of employment leading to no earnings is filling me with worry, concern, anger and despair. Luckily have Monday and Tuesday off so will be on the phone to some legal professionals.

89332 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ikaraki, 2, #586 of 1222 🔗

they have changed the wording’ – what a surprise..not..
We need to keep a close eye on all legislation now that they seem to be changing it at will, at a moment’s notice, without announcements..

89242 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #587 of 1222 🔗

Totally agree – it’s distressing physically, and that causes mental distress.

No excuses – exemption.

89272 ▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to RickH, 1, #588 of 1222 🔗

Thanks. On looking again they’ve changed the legislation (or from my memory have) to include a more expansive exemptions section..

89316 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to ikaraki, 9, #589 of 1222 🔗

Yes – and I’m not exaggerating to suit.

For the last three days, I’ve been in hospital for varying periods of time. Although the stupid blanket mask policy totally pisses me off, I decided some time ago that, in health-related situations, I wouldn’t waste time arguing the toss, even if I did chuck in the odd caustic comment. (I do drop the mask a lot of the time, however)

However – this does allow me to speak from experience. Apart from being a waste of time and space in the current situation, I can say, quite unambiguously that :

Masks are physically inhibiting of normal breathing (causing hypoxia and hypercapnia – by definition); they are uncomfortable – particularly if you wear glasses. And, as a result, they cause mental distress.

It is a reversal of basic medical ethics to propose an intervention where demonstrable harm is greater than any established benefit. The communal benefits in the current situation of low incidence of a virus are vanishingly small, even if the most optimistic slant is put upon the evidence (thus the abandonment by the Norwegian health authorities).

I rest my case 🙂

89190 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to ikaraki, 2, #590 of 1222 🔗

Urgh I know how you feel, seen my employer’s return to work guidance and that includes wearing face coverings luckily only in corridors, not the actual office. So I’m far better off than you but still don’t want the stress of mask wearing at all.

89206 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to ambwozere, 2, #591 of 1222 🔗

My Mum had the same, and it is ridiculous what she has to do. It is her dream job and she is only in one or two days a week so she has decided to put up with it. It is a shame she needs to come back into that, luckily in most other settings she is won’t bow down.

Gonna be hard going back into that for yourself, looks like you’re not going to be needing much time out the office, they’ll love your productivity!

Different for me, been open since we were allowed, a few days after lockdown.

89197 ▶▶ Liam, replying to ikaraki, 3, #592 of 1222 🔗

This is utterly sickening.

89209 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Liam, 3, #593 of 1222 🔗

Aye, depending what happens may start a ‘businesses that force employees to wear masks’ map to juxtapose the ‘small businesses that have re-opened’ one here..

89200 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to ikaraki, 4, #594 of 1222 🔗

WOW, poor you. I would say stick to your guns. You are a shop worker and you don’t need to wear a mask. You don’t need to claim exemption.

However if they do force you to disclose any hidden disability, that is Description against your hidden disability and you are protected by the Equalities act. There is a strong legal case to be made here that they will not want to embark on if pushed. Your boss sounds like a proper Charlie but he is subordinate to the higher ups. If its a big chain you work for they should be on your side too. I would take it up the tree immediately as far up as you can go.

I would also resist this and get legal advice. I think all you will need is the confidence to smack the bastard with some law in a well written letter.

Check this link:
http://laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

89219 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Two-Six, 3, #595 of 1222 🔗

Thanks, got myself time to get some legal advice and write a letter. Need it all done for Wednesday at 09:00.

89301 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ikaraki, 2, #596 of 1222 🔗

Remember Toby isoffering help with legal advice on this very site.

89317 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to annie, 1, #597 of 1222 🔗

Ta

89214 ▶▶ Mark, replying to ikaraki, 2, #598 of 1222 🔗

These are difficult, absolutely individual decisions, so I wouldn’t want to push you in any particular direction. One aspect that might be worth exploring if you can get legal advice
(I am not a lawyer) would be whether you can claim for constructive dismissal if you choose to stand your ground and get sacked.

In ordinary times, if an employer forces a change in t&c on you, you have the option to quit and claim constructive dismissal. However, I have no idea how that might interact with the coronapanic dictats, or what the current law is generally, so you should definitely get some employment law advice if you are thinking of going that way. If you are a trade union member they would usually provide that. Otherwise CAB I think can do so.

89221 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 2, #599 of 1222 🔗

At the least, if you do choose to stand your ground and they threaten you directly with the sack, you can let them know your intention would be to claim constructive dismissal. Probably best to make them sack you rather than quitting, but again you should get proper advice on that.

89256 ▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Mark, 2, #600 of 1222 🔗

I think there will be another meeting or two in the next few days with some of my colleagues. The one person I know who will stand up with me unfortunately doesn’t speak to customers so can probably get round it that way.

‘Tis an interesting one, definitely want to get them to sack me if it comes to it, but shall see what formal legal advice is.

89265 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to ikaraki, 3, #601 of 1222 🔗

Proper advice definitely.

Just checked and I was misremembering the tactical aspects of it – it’s constructive dismissal if you leave because you can’t accept a change of conditions, unfair dismissal if they sack you without good reason.

https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructive-dismissal

On the face of it, the issue would be whether the tribunal would accept forcing you to wear a mask as reasonable on their part, either way.

It might even be better to quit and go straight for constructive dismissal. But as noted, proper advice is essential.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

89275 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Mark, #602 of 1222 🔗

Thanks.

89252 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Mark, 2, #603 of 1222 🔗

Definitely going to be getting some legal advice, see what happens there. Constructive dismissal is interesting, in the meeting I proposed getting moved within the business to where masks are not required, that was met with a stern no.

Not a union member, unfortunate thinking on it now.

89216 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to ikaraki, 4, #604 of 1222 🔗

Good for you. We all need to hold out for as long as we can, and even though we risk losing our friends and our incomes, our reward is freedom and a satisfied conscience. I’d say we’ve got the better deal.

89235 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ben Shirley, 3, #605 of 1222 🔗

Easy to say – not easy to do for many.

I can sit on my arse preaching righteousness because I’m an Old Fart and a free agent. Many aren’t in the same position, and given the level of coercion, will find it very difficult.

I would hope that there may be a recourse to law or tribunal – but it can cost, and isn’t quick.

89249 ▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to RickH, 3, #606 of 1222 🔗

Thirty years old with no savings, house or other assets, so screwed there.

On a minimum wage job that requires a reasonable level of mechanical proficiency, employer making all the demands (including me having to recently fight to get 4 / 3 on / off rather than 5 / 2), and stretched to the max with lack of time, supplies and management.

All I’m thinking is the current job isn’t worth it, even if life will suck (only a bit more though) if I’m unemployed. Shame my degree and experience weren’t helping at the start of the year when I was job hunting. Time to test the waters again I suppose!

89259 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to ikaraki, #607 of 1222 🔗

Clarification, been at the shop a year and a half, not half a year as my penultimate sentence may imply.

Shouldn’t make a difference when it comes to employment law, but it can…

89283 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to ikaraki, 2, #608 of 1222 🔗

Unfortunately you do not have protection from being dismissed….unless you can show that you have been discriminated against for sex, race, disability etc. You only acquire protection when you have been employed for 2 years

89288 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Marie R, #609 of 1222 🔗

That’s a good point and renders my suggestions about unfair/constructive dismissal irrelevant in this case.

89294 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Mark, 1, #610 of 1222 🔗

Still, can mention unfair / constructive dismissal on the way out. One or two of my colleagues who don’t want to wear masks (but will ‘cos the law / company says) have worked their for more than two years.

89292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Marie R, 1, #611 of 1222 🔗

Ah..

Thanks for the heads up! Gonna be an interesting week.

89243 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Ben Shirley, #612 of 1222 🔗

Swinging that way. Still not seen any good evidence to dissuade me from my current thinking, and most people I speak to tacitly agree but comply regardless.

89258 ▶▶ Paul, replying to ikaraki, 4, #613 of 1222 🔗

You have been placed in an impossible position,like being asked do you want to be strangled or hung ?,I agree with Richard O,if you can afford to,tell them to stick their job up their arse,if you are forced to be muzzled it will be soul destroying and against all of your principles.
It is a very difficult situation and I have great sympathy for you.

89289 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Paul, 6, #614 of 1222 🔗

Definitely feeling like it! Think I’ll go for hung, probably more public, let everyone see, also the rope might snap..

Was willing to anti social distance, was willing to take time off work to avoid travelling between two urban centres, was willing to speak to my friends using phone etc., was willing to change my activities to mitigate against injury (adrenaline is a hell of a drug), emphasis on the was. From the Friday of announcing the pub closures to the Monday of lock down that was. I do not accept lock down (the final straw), I do not accept forced medical treatment, I do not accept suspension of routine medical procedures, I do not accept forced muzzling.

Sorry for the rant.. Looks like I will hate myself if I cave this time!

89359 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to ikaraki, 1, #615 of 1222 🔗

It’s easy for me to think I’d tell my employer to stuff it and just walk out but would I stick to my guns if it were to suddenly happen tomorrow?
Tough one brother, I hope you find a way out that works for you.
I suggest maybe a simulated panic attack on your first day wearing a mask at work

89524 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ikaraki, #616 of 1222 🔗
89171 Cheezilla, 1, #617 of 1222 🔗
89172 Klein, replying to Klein, 13, #618 of 1222 🔗

Just watching some videos of Prof Carl Heneghan – god bless this man

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC25-gYYgupNNLTVQoS6Y-dw/videos

The first 5 videos are recent – he talks about endemic / zero covid , risks for age, masks

89224 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Klein, #619 of 1222 🔗

A good link.

89282 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Klein, 10, #620 of 1222 🔗

The masks one is a particularly damning review, in which he reveals the UK gov apparently expected to see a 40% reduction in transmission in 2 weeks of mandating masks, but case numbers have gone up (probs just due to loads of tests, but seeing as they like to claim correlation = causation, we can too) — funny how MSM have failed to pick up on this giant failure of mask policy. The same applies to French numbers since they made masks mandatory — coincidence or are masks actually creating more transmission (as the science originally said they would!!) ? We’ll never know anyway, as they just make them mandatory in more and more places regardless.

89311 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mark II, 5, #621 of 1222 🔗

That’s actually checkmate.

If the drop wasn’t seen in the numbers the policy is wrong.

If the claim (which is correct) that no increasing cases is just an artefact of more testing and the relative number is not increasing, then the policy is also ineffective.

89286 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Klein, 3, #622 of 1222 🔗

Heneghan has a YT channel! Nobody told me. Time for some binge watching.

89385 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 2, #623 of 1222 🔗

Have you read the FoI private emails between Tegnell and colleagues, linked by Swedenborg above, also worthwhile I thought?

89185 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #624 of 1222 🔗

Saw TWO different people driving cars today wearing masks and nobody else in the car!

Who are they protecting?

89223 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 12, #625 of 1222 🔗

Johnson.

89295 ▶▶ annie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #626 of 1222 🔗

It makes them feel secure, like a baby sucking a dummy,

89302 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #627 of 1222 🔗

Then other parties insurance if they are in an aaccident.
” Officer I saw the other driver was wearing a mask and appeared to slump momentarily behind the wheel,”
Driving while impaired!

89532 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #628 of 1222 🔗

I would give them a wide berth as they could end up like that bloke in the US who crashed his car in a tree because he was muzzled and lost consciousness.

89754 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lockdown Truth, #629 of 1222 🔗

The environment?

89192 Recusant, replying to Recusant, 27, #630 of 1222 🔗

For anyone in France, enjoy your hols. My two weeks quarantine after coming back from Spain finished today. Nobody contacted me, nobody cared. Stay there and enjoy having France to yourself is my advice.

89199 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Recusant, 2, #631 of 1222 🔗

Thanks, Recusant. We still have a little over a week in France and plan on enjoying our time. Do you have any advice about the passenger locator form? Does anyone check these?

89261 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Ozzie, 2, #632 of 1222 🔗

My form was checked when I arrived at Heathrow by the Border Force. As far as I can tell, the only information they can actually verify is your name, DoB and passport number.

89222 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Recusant, 1, #633 of 1222 🔗

Why not just say ‘F. that for a game of soldiers’? And carry on regardless.

89193 Bigland, replying to Bigland, 17, #634 of 1222 🔗

Today, after a trip to a local Beefeater in Oxfordshire (where their one way system forced me to walk past every single customer just to get to the toilets – the direct route wouldn’t have taken me past anyone), I had a routine eye check-up at Specsavers. I will say, the staff were extremely polite and friendly. Beyond that, it’s the most uncomfortable I’ve been since lockdown started; I felt like a leper.

I was greeted at the door by someone in mask, shield and apron, who asked me to pop my mask on. I said I didn’t have one, and that I was exempt, but she must have missed the last part as she reached for a box of masks beside the door. I said I was unable to wear one, to which she said, “ah, you’re exempt. That’s okay.” She went off back inside leaving me waiting outside. She brought me some rather fetching black disposable gloves. I was permitted entry once I had these on.

I think I was the only one in there without a mask. All staff were kitted up like they were cleaning up a murder scene. I can’t be sure how differently I was treated to masked customers, but I noticed written in large capitals at the bottom of my notes was “NO MASK”. The optician asked why I could not wear a mask, to which I replied it caused me distress. He said he would have to conduct the test with the door open and the fan going, presumably to blow my germs out into the main area to infect everyone else instead. If I wished to tell him anything confidential, I had only to say and he would close the door. I said as little as possible and with my chin down to my chest as, by this time, I was starting to believe I had the full-blown lurgy.

Again, I’d like to reiterate the staff were friendly, helpful, and I came away satisfied with the actual eye exam and advice I had been given. But being the only person there with a fully visible face was most disconcerting, and a couple of times I felt a growing compulsion to just leave. Not an experience I’m keen to repeat.

(Cue: ‘Shouldn’t have gone to Specsavers’ remarks…)

89213 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bigland, 3, #635 of 1222 🔗

Independent is always better

89237 ▶▶ PaulC, replying to Bigland, 8, #636 of 1222 🔗

Can’t believe you were asked why you could not wear a mask.
My answer would be:
‘I do not believe I have to share my private medical history with a complete stranger’.

89293 ▶▶▶ Bigland, replying to PaulC, 4, #637 of 1222 🔗

That was certainly the answer in my head. I’m just not very good at confrontations, at least with people I’m engaging with “professionally”, shall we say. I’m sure I would have found it easier to be brusque with Joe Public. I’ll have to keep working at it. But I was really taken aback by how “suited up” everyone there was – didn’t expect that at all.

89251 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bigland, 13, #638 of 1222 🔗

The staff might have been friendly but the way you were treated was disgraceful.
Just how much more are we all going to put up with ?,when are enough people going to stand up and say ‘enough of this shit,this is lunacy ?.
I’ve had the usual ‘just following orders’ line from staff of businesses I have been in but I really do think a lot of them are actually fully on board with it all and as long as we keep going and spending our money it will continue.
If it was announced it could all be stopped tomorrow I think a high proportion of retail businesses and staff would just carry on with the nonsense for ever more,they have been made so fearful of the bogeyman I just can’t think of anything that will restore their normal mindsets.

89306 ▶▶▶ Bigland, replying to Paul, 2, #639 of 1222 🔗

Hopefully Specsavers was like this because it’s a large chain, and Management has passed down the line exactly how they want their staff to behave. As Victoria suggests above, maybe independent opticians are better. I don’t have to pay for my eye tests, but I may just shop around for any glasses I might need.

89264 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Bigland, 2, #640 of 1222 🔗

You normally send a specimen to a Path Lab! Surprised you were you allowed in! Strange place to do eye tests! ‘Should have gone to Specsavers’

89344 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Bigland, 3, #641 of 1222 🔗

Great report Bigland…I’m laughing out loud while I ‘work’ at my desk…dark humour score 10/10!
Feeling sorry you all have to go through this crap on a daily basis but I just love how you all roll with it and lay out your experiences here. Cheers to all!

89559 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bigland, #642 of 1222 🔗

Can Specsavers please explain how wearing gloves “instead of ” a face covering makes you “safe”??
Best joke today if it wasn’t so sad.

89565 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bigland, #643 of 1222 🔗

I used Specsavers once, about six years ago. The staff were great but it was like being in a cattle market and a very depressing eexperience.

I go to a small local chain now. Very civilised. I just checked their covid policy. It mentions masks and hand sanitizer, which I’d have expected.

89194 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #644 of 1222 🔗

Someone (sorry) from Oldham just on radio news saying “Positive tests are up in Oldham, but people are not ill” [my summary]. On BBC radio!! Unfortunately, he mentioned ‘asymptomatic’, which of course tanslates as ‘granny killer’. But it’s something.

89210 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #645 of 1222 🔗

Asymptomatic is a false positive

89254 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Victoria, 2, #646 of 1222 🔗

Or debris from an old infection.

89285 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DRW, 1, #647 of 1222 🔗

I think we’re calling that a false positive.

89284 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, 3, #648 of 1222 🔗

Minor and insignificant correction: asymptomatic is about 94% likely to be a false positive.

89318 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to guy153, 2, #649 of 1222 🔗

Just listened back to it. I think we might be missing something here, he was on our side.

Sir Richard Leese, leader of Manchester City Council said “In Oldham, cases have doubled, but hospital admissions have halved, and calls to 111 are very low. All the evidence suggests people in Oldham, and indeed in Greater Manchester generally, who are testing positive have either relatively low symptoms or are asymptomatic .”

I think he meant it as “have no symptoms”, i.e. it’s not a problem.

What I meant was that the ‘A’ word is assumed by the sheep to mean ‘deadly hidden killer’.

89196 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #650 of 1222 🔗

People were led into this and can easily be led out by a coordinated campaign. But the government CLEARLY don’t want it to end!

89482 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #651 of 1222 🔗

Absolutely! If they wanted it to end, they’d never have introduced muzzle-wearing.

89220 Sarigan, 3, #652 of 1222 🔗

Week commencing 10 Aug – 21 patients with Covid out of over 5mill patients within RGCP & RSC network (0.04 per 10,000):

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTU5ZDE5MGYtMzUzMy00ZjRmLTg4MGEtMTM3ZGJiZDNhODFkIiwidCI6IjZiOTAyNjkzLTEwNzQtNDBhYS05ZTIxLWQ4OTQ0NmEyZWJiNSIsImMiOjh9

89226 Tim, replying to Tim, 3, #653 of 1222 🔗

One of the most encouraging graphs on the https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ site was the daily Deaths graph. It showed a steady and remorseless decrease in deaths, even before the fake Covid-19 deaths were excluded. Not any more. Quite rightly they are now only showing deaths where Covid was diagnosed in the last two days, but the historical curve has gone! We can no longer see the context.

This government has once again found a brilliant way of obfuscating good news!

89238 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tim, 3, #654 of 1222 🔗

i assumed it was a temporary issue. Is it permanent! If it is then FFS! Next there will be no info about hospital admissions or ventilators. The ONLY data will be for “cases”.

89239 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Tim, 2, #655 of 1222 🔗

But this is the trouble with that straw man adjustment. The death tally is bogus all ways around, and all day long. However, it has been reinforced by some supposed candour.

http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/05/track-and-trace-and-the-difference-between-covid-19-and-from-with-coronavirus/

89248 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tim, #656 of 1222 🔗

The old data can be downloaded here I think:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths

89228 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 18, #657 of 1222 🔗

First ever mask challenge today. Walking into Morrison’s, I think there were three! people on the door, I say I think, as I didn’t look at them. Got just past, when a woman called out “Do you have a face covering for me?” I glanced back and gave a look that (hopefully) said “Why ever would I ?”. What I actually said was “I’m exempt, thank you”, without breaking stride. “Ok, then”, said She. Job done, but I hate that “for me” shit.

89268 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to PWL, 11, #659 of 1222 🔗

That would be surrender, PWL. I stood my ground and it worked. It lets them know that we are here, and we are legion. I must admit, I felt quite affronted, as if they’d said “what do you want, you twat?” or something 🙂

89308 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to PWL, 3, #660 of 1222 🔗

Excellent article!

89328 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #661 of 1222 🔗

You are really made to feel like a criminal walking into Morrisons (Teesside Park). Almost every time we’ve been recently there’s a security yob filming you with a green flashing body camera. Bloody bastards.

89333 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tenchy, 3, #662 of 1222 🔗

I’m sure they have to have your permission to film you… It’s another thing that’s got forgotten.

89348 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #663 of 1222 🔗

No they don’t. Sorry.

89599 ▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Nick Rose, #664 of 1222 🔗

Then play their game, and film them as you walk in!

89577 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #665 of 1222 🔗

I didn’t particularly like Morrisons before but reading your reports on here makes me determined to avoid it!

I’m very happy with my local laid-back Aldi. Apart from tissues, wine and dog kibble for the foxes and hedgehogs, I only buy fresh food, so they have all I need.

I get my dairy and household stuff from Abel&Cole.

89572 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #666 of 1222 🔗

Answer – “Don’t you have your own?”

89245 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #667 of 1222 🔗

So, are gigs back on from this weekend?

89276 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #668 of 1222 🔗

As long as you are socially distanced and wearing your mask…

89296 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sam Vimes, #669 of 1222 🔗

Live music is good for the soul. Pray tell, are you speaking the truth or just being glib?

89307 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #670 of 1222 🔗

gigs were supposed to be be on two weeks ago. My local pub landlord said that bands would be back on soon, that was two weeks ago.

89325 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Two-Six, 5, #671 of 1222 🔗

I’m already greeting people in the pub with handshakes, hugs etc. It’s high time to start fucking having it at a gig as well and I LOVE IT that the bedwetters are missing out on life

89331 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #672 of 1222 🔗

Make no mistake, Tom, I want gigs like there’s no tomorrow, but do you really think they will let them be normal? The new, extended list of mandatory mask venues includes ‘concert halls’ etc.
Having said that, if 200 folk turn up to a Motorhead tribute band and all say “I am exempt”, well, that might be interesting! A bit of ‘pre-organisation’ wouldn’t be difficult in these social media days…

89358 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #673 of 1222 🔗

Exactly. It’ll be like when the pubs reopened.

‘Yeah, Yeah, I promise to socially distance and behave’.

2 Strongbows later = threatened to be kicked out for not socially distancing and not behaving.

89538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tom Blackburn, #674 of 1222 🔗

Strongbow? Is that a drink or fizzy lemonade?

89578 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #675 of 1222 🔗

As long as you’re organised in groups of 30, you’re perfectly legal.

89324 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #676 of 1222 🔗

Wouldn’t be surprised if everyone has to wear a mask and stand in a circle drawn on the floor, band playing behind a perspex screen or each in their own perspex box. No singing no drinking no dancing.

89334 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 1, #677 of 1222 🔗

Anything is possible. Anything.

89255 Dan Clarke, 1, #678 of 1222 🔗

Can I have dental treatment without a mask?

89257 Cheezilla, #679 of 1222 🔗

Seems appropriate:

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89266 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 11, #680 of 1222 🔗

If this IS really a Boris power grab then why are other parties following his lead?

Also is someone really suggesting that every political party in the world is on this as a scam, except Sweden of course.

Surely what we are seeing is gross incompetence dealing with a complex situation.

I can’t believe Boris wouldn’t change track IF he thought it would be a vote winner.

Likewise Starmer.

89281 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to hotrod, 9, #681 of 1222 🔗

That’s the issue – the sheer volume of bedwetters.

89287 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #682 of 1222 🔗

I think “we” as a sceptical group need to steer away from some global Gates led conspiracy as it is losing us the arguments.

This is a crisis that has been impacting globally and most countries have dealt with it poorly.

Our government need to take stock and think how to win the next battle in getting back to normal and living with the risk.

So does the opposition.

The best approach wins the next election.

89291 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to hotrod, 10, #683 of 1222 🔗

Agree that the conspiracy stuff doesn’t help.

89305 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to hotrod, 4, #684 of 1222 🔗

Agreed

89320 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to hotrod, 14, #685 of 1222 🔗

I don’t personally especially believe in a pre-orchestrated, co-ordinated conspiracy, neither any longer do I think it beyond the realms of possibility.

But it cannot be denied that Gates, Big Pharma and various other bodies globally have their own agendas that they are taking the opportunity to pursue.

In the short term I am not sure it matters that much. What matters is getting the truth out there about exactly how dangerous or otherwise this virus is, and what the reasonable options are for living with it, and persuading our fellow citizens of the merits of our case.

I agree that with many neutrals, pushing the conspiracy angle may not be helpful, but there are those who strongly believe it to be the case.

But, cock-up or conspiracy, the main players in the decisions made really need to be gone before we can properly move on from this. So unless a convincing apology can be obtained from some who’ve been less instrumental in the madness I would say the whole Cabinet needs to go. There has certainly been a national-level conspiracy between government and their senior advisors and medical leaders to create fear and confusion, to perpetuate the madness rather than steer us out of it, to save their careers lest the public realise they’ve been had. The PM and most of the others cannot be forgiven for that, or ever trusted with anything ever again.

89341 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 14, #686 of 1222 🔗

The trust is gone. The compact between me and the State is broken irreparably. I will not be co-operating with it or its officers or its representatives in any capacity whatsoever again.

89367 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #687 of 1222 🔗

Me neither

89472 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RDJ, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #688 of 1222 🔗

I completely agree. I think our representatives forget that they should serve the people and not the other way round. Lost faith in all three major parties as most politicians seem to be really mediocre. Think they should have their salaries reduced seeming as their decisions affect the livelihoods of millions in a negative way

89500 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #689 of 1222 🔗

Me neither , my trust is shattered.

89493 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Julian, 2, #690 of 1222 🔗

Conspiracy assumes that the people in charge are do much brighter & more effective than they are. It’s just a complete shambles, there’s no great mind at work here.

89526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to NickR, 2, #691 of 1222 🔗

If there’s a conspiracy I tend to think our national leaders are being manipulated rather than active co-conspirators

I think it only matters to know which if it changes the way we approach getting us out of this

89554 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 5, #692 of 1222 🔗

You have to question why all western governments bar Sweden are all incompetent in exactly the same way.

89881 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #693 of 1222 🔗

Possibly, though you could put that down to copying each other, lack of originality, and the natural order of things – humans like power, governing through fear gives you easy power, propaganda creates fear. It’s not exactly a new playbook they are following.

If I had to put money on it I would say the PM etc are not “part” of “this” but some of the scientists, academics, quangoites and advisors probably are part of whatever “it” might be.

89756 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, 1, #694 of 1222 🔗

Gates, Big Pharma, the W.H.O., China and Public Health groups around the world are all part of the truth out there.

89336 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hotrod, 12, #695 of 1222 🔗

The one thing our mandarin-based bureaucracy has never understood is that for an economy to function most efficiently, you need people to be as free as possible to act under their own initiative, without having to look over their shoulders every three seconds. They must also see the rewards of either their labour or their risk, and not see it all sucked away to line an already bloated bureaucracy. Some of what they do is necessary, and so is regulation up to a point. But what we’ve been seeing over the past 25 or so years is just ridiculous.

For some time now, bureaucrats have been allowed to “interpret” regulations, and that interpretation carries the full weight of law. We must return to law being decided by parliament, not bureaucrat. And that has led to where we are now, rule by diktat. The leash is not only too heavy, but it is strangling the dog to death.

As we are seeing, right now.

89723 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to hotrod, 1, #696 of 1222 🔗

Most countries have dealt with it poorly and in the same way.That alone should set alarm bells ringing.
I agree we are on shaky ground when we talk about conspiracies because by their nature they are secret,and but I have no doubt that something very unpleasant is going on behind the scenes.

89755 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to hotrod, 1, #697 of 1222 🔗

I suggest that you go to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation site and check out their 23 year history. It’s a bit like shorthand but it will give you a good idea about their global network.

89299 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to hotrod, 8, #698 of 1222 🔗

Can’t believe mass unemployment is a vote-winner, maybe the tide will turn once the furlough tap is turned off. Unless Boris is planning to just keep bunging people (their childrens’ future) money indefinitely.

89303 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to zacaway, 2, #699 of 1222 🔗

Too many whoppers would gladly lose their jobs to be a martyr and live in “interesting times”

89310 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to hotrod, 9, #700 of 1222 🔗

There are psychopaths in the shadows dictating policy, e.g. the communist woman on the Sage committee who has been pushing the masks.

89390 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Castro, -2, #701 of 1222 🔗

Forget the odd ‘communist’.This is a coup by the extreme right (who aren’t that different).

89398 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 2, #702 of 1222 🔗

No it isn’t.

89434 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #703 of 1222 🔗

You mean you wish it wasn’t.

Get real.

89326 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hotrod, 10, #704 of 1222 🔗

It’s a power grab all right, not necessarily for just Boris. The opposition aren’t barking over it because they would dearly love to rule by SI too. It’s the Statutory Instrument that is the real problem here. The lockdown itself is sheeple politicians copying each other and, rather more depressingly, China. The loss of rights concerns me because we had a similar thing in WW2 and it took 20 years before we got all the rights and liberties back. And even then, it’s debatable if we were freer afterwards than we were before.

Politicians cannot be trusted to do what’s right, unless – as you correctly point out – they believe there’s votes in it for them.

89335 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 10, #705 of 1222 🔗

If you can continue to make people believe there’s a deadly danger from which only the government can protect them, you can make people put up with all kinds of nonsense, even stuff that actively harms them, and you don’t need to work that hard to gain their votes or their compliance – just keep the fear going by using every dirty trick in the book – more testing, masks, local lockdowns, talk of a second wave, we’re miles away from herd immunity, dominate the media, 77th brigade, silence NHS workers, senior police encourage public shaming, use social media.
I don’t know if they intended it, but I think they realised quite early on how much control they had, and they like it, and they have NO intention of letting up.

89401 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Julian, 5, #706 of 1222 🔗

You are exactly right. Fuelling the fear helps the government in 2 ways — it prolongs the power grab that they’ve come to crave and it deflects from their initial cock-up. This applies to all the governments who over-reacted, but what’s really disconcerting is how governments at the local level are abusing their power as well.

89404 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #707 of 1222 🔗

Anybody with power will abuse that power given the chance. Sadly, that’s how people are.

89403 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #708 of 1222 🔗

I agree. But people eventually see through it. Only a matter of time before the screw up and make the wrong push.

89882 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, #709 of 1222 🔗

Hope so.

89589 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Julian, #710 of 1222 🔗

I think they realised quite early on how much control they had

Wasn’t BoJo reported (quite early on) to have admitted he was surprised how easy it was to take peoples liberty away. As far as I’m aware It’s not been officially denied, so I think we can assume it’s true…

89393 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #711 of 1222 🔗

DWP have always operated via SI for preference , get a vagueish Act passed then colour it in later.

89400 ▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, -1, #712 of 1222 🔗

why are other parties following his lead?”

Because the same forces have manipulated time-serving establishment ciphers into leadership of other parties. They can relax now that Starmer is the safe alternative. You only have to look to see how he is doing his masters’ bidding, and working not to ‘oppose’ in any but the most superficial sense.

Why do you think the establishment network was so keen to spread similar false Scary Fairy propaganda about Corbyn – who, whatever else, was independent-minded.

It’s The Guardian that always gives the best insight into the workings of the real establishment machinations (if you decode it).

It’s not rocket science.

89595 ▶▶▶ microdave, replying to RickH, 2, #713 of 1222 🔗

Because the same forces have manipulated time-serving establishment ciphers into leadership of other parties

Common Purpose – remember their moto used to be “Leading Beyond Authority”. Strangely, that is no longer mentioned on their website, but the old version can still be found on The Wayback Machine…

89637 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to hotrod, #714 of 1222 🔗

Not sure I understand the conspiracy. What’s the end game and what do all the myriad players involved in what would have to be a complex multinational and institutional plan get out of it? Seems a bit too Austen Powers for my vote.

89737 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Fed up, #715 of 1222 🔗

Whether it was started deliberately doesn’t matter anymore.Its undeniable that this is no longer about a virus which is no more dangerous that seasonal flu.
There seem to be different forces working behind the scenes to change things,which is the definition of a conspiracy.

90011 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to hotrod, #716 of 1222 🔗

You do not need everyone in on it. All you need is a handful of people to guide events and lots of “useful idiots” who just go along with it without thinking. Take for example the general population of the UK. All the polls show huge support for virtually any draconian measure proposed. Do you think that these people have done their homework, have evaluated all the available scientific evidence, have studied the history of pandemics and are able to put the severity (or lack of) of Covid in context? Of course not. Most of them have simply listened to what they are told by the (hugely biased) mass media and accepted it at face value.

I believe most politicians are like that. They don’t bother to listen to dissenting scientific opinion and simply go along with what they are told by the WHO. Once you get 1 or high-profile governments going down the lockdown route, you get a stampede of governments doing the same thing and any governments doing otherwise get vilified (Sweden) or are put under financial pressure to fall in line (Belarus). As for the WHO themselves, they are hopelessly compromised. Their largest donor is the US, which is stopping donations. Their next largest donor? Bill Gates…

89278 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #717 of 1222 🔗

Ladies and Gentlemen, it’s time to get a beer. Cheers!

89405 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #718 of 1222 🔗

Good health, Sam.

89304 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 22, #719 of 1222 🔗

Worrying reports from several professionals today about adverse effects of masks: dental nurse, podiatrist and pharmacist all suffering from facial skin eruptions, caused by trapped moisture and exacerbated by present hot weather.

Is this really necessary? Health professionals are now complaining but soldiering on in increasingly adverse conditions.

Dentists are also finding that the obligatory PPE layers are likely to cause heat stress. I spoke to one today , who told me that yesterday’s reduced work load made her very hot and uncomfortable.

And a plastic space helmet must compromise the eye- hand coordination required for safe dental practice.

We need the equivalent of a Guiness Book of Records list of greatest political cock ups and this would be at the top of the top ten.

89312 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendyk, 25, #720 of 1222 🔗

It’s insane. WHY AREN’T PEOPLE FIGHTING BACK?????????????????

89313 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Two-Six, 14, #721 of 1222 🔗

No idea. The sheer volume of mask wearers in the shops is depressing.

89321 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Two-Six, 15, #722 of 1222 🔗

I honestly don’t know, but this is going to lead to a whole stack of entirely predictable problems.

89357 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Two-Six, 4, #723 of 1222 🔗

Because there is no leadership. They’re all in on the scam. They don’t seem to realise that it’s Custer’s last stand for TPTB. They have all proved to be useless at doing what they are paid for. Governing needs to be farmed out. We can manage our own executions.

89383 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, 2, #724 of 1222 🔗

Well – Sorry to state the bleedin’ obvious – but the same ‘People’ actually voted in the majority for the lying, narcissistic wanker that is now calling the shots. It was a mark of collective stupidity – even if you didn’t much fancy the alternative. Would you put a paedophile in charge of an orphanage?

This is mass suicide as much as anything.

89392 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 5, #725 of 1222 🔗

That’s a bit of a straw man argument. Would you put the friend of this country’s enemies in charge of the country? Given the silence of your beloved choice of political party over what’s gone on, any reasonable observer can conclude they would have acted in exactly the same way .

Once again, you repeat the false argument that if you voted for this government you voted for what’s going on. Like anybody knew Corona was coming. Or how the government might react if they did know.

Before you say it, politics is no longer a two horse race, and I have not voted for any mainstream party since 1987. Those who continue to vote for the LibLabCon are misguided in my opinion, but they aren’t suicidal. Neither are they stupid.

89430 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, -1, #726 of 1222 🔗

I think the biggest ‘enemy of the country’ that I’ve seen (objectively, rather than in confected stories in the same propaganda sheets that promote this Panicdemic) is Johnson – courtesy of the Tory Party.

If you voted for this government – just own up to your mistake. It was pretty obvious, although I understand your need to make excuses for such a crass error of judgment.

My comments, BTW, weren’t a commercial for Corbyn – just (to put it at it’s lowest) a statement of the clear massive misjudgment of those that backed the current dangerous fraud – whose lying venality was well known (to the marginally conscious) well before Corona raised its head.

89459 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to RickH, 10, #727 of 1222 🔗

This is unfair: I voted for Bojo, with reservations, as the best of a bad lot.

Corbyn would have been a disaster, a view shared by everyone I know, regardless of affiliations.

Crass error of judgement? Why so accusatory?

We had no idea that this panicdemic would befall us, and those of us who voted for Leave had endured 3 years of prevarication from Mrs May’s administration.

As to biggest enemy, what about the SNP, with their endless grievances, their sniping and spinning and the Sturgeon cult.

Yes, our politicians are a disgrace but your criticisms are unjust.

89478 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 2, #728 of 1222 🔗

He won’t get it, WendyK. Just ideologically blind to any other point of view. Apparently you’re guilty of something that might happen in the future as well as in the past if you don’t vote for his pinko mates.

I think that for myself the time has come to ignore RickH; he’s made that vile accusation before.

89487 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to wendyk, #729 of 1222 🔗

It’s an interesting question, would Corbyn/McDonnell have dared borrow do much as BJ/Sunak?
I rather think a Corbyn/Sturgeon coalition would have shuffled the Jocks off, got shot of NI, not borrowed so much, been blamed for whatever covid disaster would have unfurled (probably exactly the same as under Tories). Unstable alliance would have collapsed in a year & BJ would have come in in summer 2021 as an all conquering hero.

89491 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to NickR, #730 of 1222 🔗

An interesting analysis.

89464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 8, #731 of 1222 🔗

The entire political class are the enemies of the British people.Not a murmur from them as our liberties are being taken and our prosperity is being destroyed for a generation.
The old politics is dead.You are either for freedom or slavery.

89580 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #732 of 1222 🔗

Not a murmur from them as our liberties are being taken

Not entirely correct – early on in this debacle (March the 23rd to be precise) Steve Baker gave a short speech in the commons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_51gGZKTyc

While he was agreeing with the need for restrictions – and remember, at that time, much less was known about CV – he nevertheless implored BoJo not to let this “Dystopia” continue for one minute longer than necessary. I don’t think ANY MP’s have said something comparable since…

89600 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to microdave, 2, #733 of 1222 🔗

But Steve B has pretty much been silent ever since then…

89708 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to microdave, #734 of 1222 🔗

1 MP in March,pathetic.The entire political/media establishment are guilty.

89465 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, #735 of 1222 🔗

I voted Brexit Party. As I said, don’t start playing that game or you can go fuck yourself with a pinless hand grenade.

89473 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 6, #736 of 1222 🔗

I agree it was a mistake to vote for the current government, which I did, but I contend it would have been equally mistaken to vote for the alternatives. Unless you are arguing that Corbyn is of sounder character than the PM – sounder enough to have dealt better with this virus?

89488 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Two-Six, 2, #737 of 1222 🔗

It’s a question of organising. I’m ready but don’t know how to go about it

89652 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Bella, #738 of 1222 🔗

Bella, I think the most effective way would be for Keep Britain Free or Lockdown Sceptics (or BrexitFacts4EU to produce a punchy factual A4 leaflet (similar to BrexitFacts4EU one-pagers factsheet 1 : https://facts4eu.org/brexit_fightback_initiative ) with the main arguments:
I would include – a comparison between flu deaths and Covid deaths, the question why hasn’t Lockdown or social distancing been effective in controlling flu deaths, Chris Whitty’s confession that the virus was in decline ‘well before’ Lockdown, the hidden government report of April that Lockdown could kill 200,000 in the UK, that 400,000 cancers referrals delayed, the million who will be unemployed/die in the Third World, the trashing of the global economies and coming unemployment/recession, the disproportionate expenditure ($1 billion AUS$ for each Ozzie Covid-death), the destruction of civil liberties, etcetera.
This would be set up so we could either download it ourselves, or be of good enough quality for a professional printer to download and produce.
[With the Brexit leaflet I got a local printer to print off 3000 copies (160 gsm paper, A4 folded in thirds) for about £120. I then delivered them to all houses in our area (about 100 per hour). People even wrote to the local papers saying they were so pleased to get good information on Brexit that was not available from political parties or the MSM who all dealt in spin, not facts). It was very helpful to change peoples’ views on Brexit in this Pro-EU area of Surrey]; and I think this would be the best way to get Our ‘sceptics’ message across – they cannot so easily ignore an independent factual document put through their door; and it is more permanent than some temporary fluff on a TV channel or one article among many in a newspaper.

Perhaps Toby will pick this comment up and organise something we can all print off, or have printed off, and then distribute door-to-door – perhaps in an alliance with other ‘sceptic’ sites – thus widening the distribution – but making sure it is factual, and not ‘opinion’, nor moving into different agendas or ‘conspiracy’ territory.

89666 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 1, #739 of 1222 🔗

I have just emailed BrexitFacts4EU to propose this. Hopefully they and Toby can put their heads together to produce something factual we all feel confident in printing off and distributing door-to-door.

89353 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to wendyk, 5, #740 of 1222 🔗

Dental nurse the other day had full gas mask on FFS.

89360 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #741 of 1222 🔗

FFS

89486 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #742 of 1222 🔗

My dentist said he had to wear some weird gas mask thing to do fillings, he wasn’t keen, strange as he usually drills with abandon, very rich these guys!

89374 ▶▶ RickH, replying to wendyk, 2, #743 of 1222 🔗

Is this really necessary?”

Of course not. Do you need to even ask the question?

89444 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to RickH, #744 of 1222 🔗

It’s a rhetorical question! !

89527 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendyk, 5, #745 of 1222 🔗

I’ve been mulling and might be going a bit cuckoo but bear with me.

All the supermarket workers wearing masks cannot be healthy on an 8 hour shift.

Give it a few months higher rate of illness, workers off, supermarkets under staffed = supermarkets shut or open for fewer days/hours = rationing etc etc…..

89547 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stefarm, #746 of 1222 🔗

Exactly!

89539 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 6, #747 of 1222 🔗

They’re medical professionals and should be fighting back. They are experiencing first hand the consequences of the adverse effects of masks and its frustrating that they’re not saying anything. Are they waiting to be say sued by someone who is a victim of their botched attempts at treatment simply because the masks/visors compromised their effectivity at delivering that treatment?

They shouldn’t wait until something really bad happens. They should be speaking out now!

89555 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #748 of 1222 🔗

I honestly don’t know, but at a guess would say that they’re being pressurised by their various professional bodies.

Codes of conduct, professional standards, threats of being struck off , complaints from lockdown- lover patients,etc.

Unless the protests reach critical mass and solidarity, I doubt that many will speak out.

89571 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 1, #749 of 1222 🔗

Therein lies the rub, the majority have been scared into submission and given the way things are going, sadly I think you’re right.

The only way now I think that people will wake up from their torpor is a massive earthquake.

89337 tonys, replying to tonys, 15, #750 of 1222 🔗

The head of public health in Calderdale has just informed bbc look North that there are more cases in the district now than in March or April, which is possibly the single most stupid comment I have heard since March or April.
With these massive idiots in charge I am afraid we will never get out of this .

89339 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to tonys, 2, #751 of 1222 🔗

Surely that’s a downright lie?

89346 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tenchy, 1, #752 of 1222 🔗

Can’t be right!

89347 ▶▶▶ tonys, replying to Tenchy, 5, #753 of 1222 🔗

I can only presume she is so stupid she has no understanding of the impact of the huge increase in testing, or she’s lying I don’t know, but it’s quite unbelievable.

89386 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to tonys, 2, #754 of 1222 🔗

Stupid and lack of understanding. A statistic is a piece of wood in her mind, probably.

89562 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to tonys, #755 of 1222 🔗

Don’t understand basic statistics, let alone complex ones.

In fact, just don’t understand basic logic:

  • Only testing people with symptoms in the Spring will cause selection bias
  • No randomised testing in the Spring will prevent accurate CFR and infection rates
  • Only reporting positive results without the number of tests will prevent context
  • Having no numbers for prevelance in Sprint will provide even less context to the new results

This process is garbage. The data is utterly meaningless, it is inconsistent and therefore valueless.

I wonder how many of our parliamentarians have a triple digit IQ. I’m guessing, not many.

89368 ▶▶ RickH, replying to tonys, 5, #756 of 1222 🔗

I fear – sadly – that a qualification for employment in Public Health is the removal of the brain.

89588 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #757 of 1222 🔗

I’ve been coming to that conclusion recently!

89378 ▶▶ Nic, replying to tonys, 3, #758 of 1222 🔗

More cases , then there must be more hospital cases then!
But there are not and this is the same nation wide , so what is happening?

89382 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to tonys, 1, #759 of 1222 🔗

The only thing worse than giving power to a bureaucrat is to give power to a petty bureaucrat.

89418 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, #760 of 1222 🔗

I reckon giving testing to private companies for profit outstrips it.

89462 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, #761 of 1222 🔗

Say what you like about that, but they’ve proven rather more efficient than the moribund public testing facilities. By several factors.

89611 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #762 of 1222 🔗

Or just a petty Hitler in a shop or doctor’s reception.

89387 ▶▶ Alan Billingsley, replying to tonys, 1, #763 of 1222 🔗

That’s because they were carrying out very few if any tests then!

89391 ▶▶ NickR, replying to tonys, 1, #764 of 1222 🔗

Well of course he’s correct, however, he’s forgetting that back then they’d tested about 3 people in Calderdale, now lots will have been tested. So, absolute numbers the same. At some point in march there were as many cases across the UK as there are now but then it was rising now it’s falling. The guy is scaremongering.

89402 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to tonys, #765 of 1222 🔗

How can we add her to the list if you don’t include her name, Tony’s ? 🙂

89481 ▶▶ Bella, replying to tonys, #766 of 1222 🔗

These people are stooges. Don’t think they realise the consequences of what they are saying for themselves if an uprising gathers momentum

89338 wat tyler, replying to wat tyler, 46, #767 of 1222 🔗

HI Everyone im trying to get my head around using the technology as never good with computers and first time joining any discussion on line. But just wanted to say a lot of people on here seem very disheartened and i understand why but we must not forget there are loads of people out there feeling like us they just dont have a voice or know about sites like this ,all they hear is the nonsense coming from the media and social media. we need to come together all of us on here and get the message out .I personally dont agree with a lot of the [and please i dont mean to be rude ] conspiracy stuff but i believe we must put all are differences aside and work together to liberate our society .I think the most important fight right now is the mask issue as i believe a lot of people resent it and realise it is unnecessary but 1 dont know about exemptions and 2 are scared of the police and fines.So i talk to every one i meet and have already pointed about 20 people towards the exemption cards .I know a lot of people say we shouldnt use them and i agree we should only use when challenged but just having it there give the less confident a moral boost. I have now been on two 5 hour train journeys with no hassle and smaller ones visited all the main supermarkets ,waterstones,john lewis,marks and spencer and many more smaller shops and not had to show the card once .also noticed many of the smaller shops ie tesco express and corner shops have many people without masks ,so a lot more people resisting than many realise. what i want to do by ingaging on here is to find positive ways to take our ideas to the mainstream .what i would love to see is proper demonstrations with Peter Hitchens ,DR John lee,Suntra Gupta Toby Young and Carl Henaghan on the stage.So Toby if youre reading this please give it some thought .Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble and i dont get back to everyone who finds this interesting ,its just im shit at tech and am trying to work out how to use the site and also just writing this took an hour.Anyway glad ive taken the plunge .Total support to everyone on this site .Chin up we can win .

89371 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to wat tyler, 7, #768 of 1222 🔗

Hi! Great post and I agree completely – well coordinated demonstrations would be great with notable persons on the stage! We will win!

89468 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #769 of 1222 🔗

Thanks Kath lets hope Tobys listening.

89379 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to wat tyler, 7, #770 of 1222 🔗

Welcome! I often wish I were in the UK as there are far more people defying the mask edict than here in Canada. But I’m thinking about going to a meeting tomorrow organized by a homegrown group called Hugs Over Masks. They do have placards and the like because we’re limited in the number of people who can congregate unless it’s a “demonstration,” but it’s become more of a social event for like-minded people. I’ve been hiding out at my country place but had to come back to Toronto today so may very well join the group and talk with people who aren’t hysterical for a change. Anyway, thanks for your uplifting post!

89474 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #771 of 1222 🔗

Thanks Lisa hope you meet some like minded people.It only takes one or two to work with and you can get a lot done .

89410 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to wat tyler, 3, #772 of 1222 🔗

A man after my own heart Wat. Don’t worry, it took me weeks to find out how to post a link. Even now I think I do it in a very convoluted way. I’m sure there must be a shortcut.

Glad to hear that you have already pointed 20 people towards the exemption cards. I managed 5 today, 3 of whom were complete strangers. They were all very grateful because, as you said, they didn’t think the exemptions could apply to them. In this case ignorance certainly is not bliss.

89461 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Margaret, 3, #773 of 1222 🔗

Hi margaret thanks.Yes i think its one of the most practical things we can do at the moment and is something we can all do each day .I dont believe for one moment the general public want this.we went from 95% not wearing to 95% wearing .They are only complying because of fear of the police and no knowledge of exemption.Once they see their not alone they will join us.

89439 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to wat tyler, 4, #774 of 1222 🔗

Wat Tyler! My hero! I’ll gladly follow your march to London. I’m off to hammer my ploughshare into a sword right now…

89505 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #775 of 1222 🔗

Thank you Mr Dee ,Im just an ordinary bloke who wants to try to take things forward.Enjoying sharing ideas with you and everyone else.Also glad you have a sword as its always best to be prepared.

89463 ▶▶ Julian, replying to wat tyler, 2, #776 of 1222 🔗

Yes I am disheartened and not at all optimistic because the powerful forces against us are many and have been building their strength over decades.

But will keep battling and will stay sane because it would be wrong to let them win.

We could do with a billionaire to employ some full time strategists and staff to run a big media campaign to get the truth out there.

89495 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Julian, 3, #777 of 1222 🔗

Hi Julian i dont think we need a billionaire although money always helps most campaigns.what i think we need as i said above is Toby to get the big names against the lockdown to come together for a one day event and speak as one voice.It would attract massive attention and the mainstream media could not ignore it.Also we couldnt be wrote off as crackpots with such well respected voices. our jobs could be to promote it in everyway possible leading up to event.

89878 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to wat tyler, #778 of 1222 🔗

There are very few big names against the lockdown, and the chances of getting them to speak together are slim, the event would not be well attended and even less well reported. The BBC have reported on none of the demos that have happened in the UK, though they did report (unfavourably, misleadingly) on the Berlin protests. If the “big names” wanted to appear on a platform together I think they would have done already. For something like that to work, we need many more supporters than we have currently and we need to soften up the ground among the general public first, with the same kind of relentless repetition of the truth as the government has employed with their lies.

89483 ▶▶ hat man, replying to wat tyler, 2, #779 of 1222 🔗

Excellent suggestion, That is what has been happening in Germany. People turned out in huge numbers to hear and be inspired by leading authorities speak out against the lockdown measures.

89522 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to hat man, #780 of 1222 🔗

Thanks Philip I have seen the videos from germany and yes thats what we need.I Think if we could get some of the names i suggested above it would be very hard for the media to smear us as far right or conspiracy theorists .we need to be as broad based as possible .Lets home Tobys listening.

89503 ▶▶ Edward, replying to wat tyler, 2, #781 of 1222 🔗

Welcome, wat Tyler, good to see you here, keep reading and posting. Don’t worry about rambling or literary style, your views are coming across loud and clear!

89508 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Edward, 2, #782 of 1222 🔗

Thank you Edward glad to be on board.

89545 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wat tyler, 4, #783 of 1222 🔗

Welcome Wat and well done for doing your bit in spreading the Gospel of Lockdown Scepticism as well as the Epistle of Anti- Muzzle Wearing.

89927 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Bart Simpson, #784 of 1222 🔗

Thanks Bart.

89609 ▶▶ annie, replying to wat tyler, 4, #785 of 1222 🔗

Welcome! Great post.
I’m not into conspiracies either, but I do believe in pure, diabolical evil and it is abroad among us now. Every act, every thought, that resists it is a blow for good.
Don’t be disheartened. But remember that people come here when they’re feeling low, or angry, to vent their feelings among friends.
Welcome again!

89940 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to annie, #786 of 1222 🔗

Thank you Annie .Im not disheartened in the least and glad to be here . i dont believe in evil forces but the reason im here is seeing a kid of about 5 in a pushchair in a mask and that made me think what the hell has happened to our society and those in charge are completely and utterly responsible for this .so i want to do whatever i can to bring this madness to an end.

89620 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to wat tyler, 1, #787 of 1222 🔗

Excellent & well thought out first post.

89941 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Dave #KBF, #788 of 1222 🔗

Thank you Dave.

89340 Will, replying to Will, 21, #789 of 1222 🔗

After the most extraordinary final frame of the world championship snooker semi final between Kyren Wilson and Anthony McGill how lovely to see the two fantastic sportsmen foregoing the dreadful elbow bumps and shaking each other’s hands properly. A true mark of respect and sportsmanship.

89352 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Will, 2, #790 of 1222 🔗

I had no idea this tournament was happening. Been watching it religiously for 17 days every year since the mid-80s. I will not do so for one second now, because it would mean using the BBC.

89364 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Richard O, 2, #791 of 1222 🔗

Think it’s on Eurosport

89372 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #792 of 1222 🔗

Good call, Eurosport usually upload decent highlights videos on YouTube (I don’t have a TV).

89417 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard O, #793 of 1222 🔗

You need to separate News and Current Affairs output (captured) from the majority of the BBC.

89428 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to RickH, 2, #794 of 1222 🔗

No they have wrecked everything they do. Even TMS is hard going now. Comedy dire, Sport a shadow of it’s past, documentaries full of climate fantasy. Nothing good they do.

89438 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to nottingham69, 2, #795 of 1222 🔗

Watched the highlights of the test match yesterday on BBC4.2 ethnic women and Mark Rampakash as the presenters.There is no escape from their wokery.

89523 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #796 of 1222 🔗

I’m done with cricket now, can’t even tell you if we’ve won any matches lately.

89651 ▶▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to nottingham69, #797 of 1222 🔗

Well, off topic, but I think TMS is doing very well at the moment. Some fine commentators like Isa Guha and Michael Vaughan, and vastly improved sine they put old donkeys like Henry Blowers out to pasture.

89643 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Will, 1, #798 of 1222 🔗

They will have to watch their backs, social distance police will be popping round for a visit.

Cannot have any of these friendly exchanges.

I wonder if they agreed to shake hands before the match or did it on the spur of the moment?

89343 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 15, #799 of 1222 🔗

North West folk ahoy!

This is a part repeat from a conversation lower down, I think it’s worth putting it up top:

Radio 2 news, 5 pm.

Sir Richard Leese, leader of Manchester City Council said “In Oldham, cases have doubled, but hospital admissions have halved, and calls to 111 are very low. All the evidence suggests people in Oldham, and indeed in Greater Manchester generally, who are testing positive have either relatively low symptoms or are asymptomatic .”

He was on our side! I think he meant ‘asymptomatic’ as “have no symptoms”, i.e. it’s not a problem – NOT the usal sheep definition of ‘deadly hidden killer’.

89415 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #800 of 1222 🔗

He just needs to go a bit further and point out that such testing tells you zilch in terms of infection.

89388 James007, replying to James007, 10, #801 of 1222 🔗

Back from a Hoburne holiday. What a relief to get away from home for a few nights! We had fun and our son was able to swim again for the first time since February. I’ve never seen him so happy. Trying to find some leisure pool somewhere that is properly open. All pools I’ve seen are lane swims only.
On the first day the one-way system round the building (taped lines of the floor, arrows and no-entry signs) was a bit bewildering, as was the procedure for booking the children’s play area and the pools. There were few guests around.
The masked staff seemed friendly, and I imagined they were smiling.

Masking was mandatory everywhere we went, but we didnt wear masks once. Only on 3 occasions were we challenged, and there was no problem when we explained we had an exemption.
The wierdest mask situation was on an open-air miniture steam railway. One carriage per family, every second carriage was left vacant, PVC screens had been erected between each carriage, and the whole train was disinfected between trips. Yet masks were compulsory for all.

It was amusing to watch a member of staff going round the children’s play area wiping every surface with a wet wipe before it opened.

Marwell Zoo were very strict with covid security. We got there early and almost had the place to ourselves for half an hour. Sadly no train but had a great day.

The only bad thing about the holiday was having to come home.

89412 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James007, 18, #802 of 1222 🔗

The wierdest mask situation was on an open-air miniture steam railway. One carriage per family, every second carriage was left vacant, PVC screens had been erected between each carriage, and the whole train was disinfected between trips. Yet masks were compulsory for all.”

I don’t think we’ve seen such a comprehensive belief in witchcraft and magic for centuries.

Some people really are that thick!

89394 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #803 of 1222 🔗

https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/ ‘Covid 19 has accelerated out transition into the age of the Fourth Industrial Revolution.’ Prince Charles is playing a big part in this, the man who likes to fly by helicopter wherever he goes, who lives in castles, who gives millions to his son for another mansion. The hypocrisy goes on with the rich wanting the rest of us to save the planet for them.

89517 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #804 of 1222 🔗

Can’t have the plebs doing what ‘we’ do. Just let them ride bikes.

89396 MadJock1, replying to MadJock1, 36, #805 of 1222 🔗

Hi,
First time posting here although I’ve been following the site for a few months. The entire mask situation is the thing I’ve found, and continue to find, the most difficult to deal with on a practical level and I simply can’t believe that the majority of people are happy slapping a nappy over their mouths. Today I have some, admittedly unscientific (possibly making it more valid), evidence to support my view. After over 30 years in what was once the Aviation Industry I stared working for a fairly large FE / HE college at the beginning of the year. Each week on the College staff intranet they have a “Quick Poll”. This week the question was “Would you still go to the cinema given the new requirement to war a face mask?” Results as follows :

Yes definitely 28 (15%)
Possibly 39 (21%)
Probably Not 48 (26%)
No 63 (35%)

So out of 178 people only one in about 6 are genuinely happy to be muzzled. Even putting the most “optimistic spin” on the result over one third of people are being put off by having to be muzzled. No wonder retail is bleeding to death and hospitality is on life support. When will the cretins in government get it through their thick heads that masks are both a public health and economic disaster area.

89429 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to MadJock1, 16, #806 of 1222 🔗

Footfall in shops and on transport is way down yet Hancock still thinks it gives people confidence to slap one on. Yes when will they get it through their thick heads

89593 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #807 of 1222 🔗

Problem is, the more people shop online, the sooner they will axe cash – and all online payments can be tracked too..

89635 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Carrie, 1, #808 of 1222 🔗

As has effectively almost happened in Sverige, even before carownervirus.

89702 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cambridge N, #809 of 1222 🔗

Are you in Sweden too? You can still pay with cash where I live..

89432 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to MadJock1, 16, #810 of 1222 🔗

Welcome! The data you have provided is more sound than anything provided by the state or media, and is a very revealing sample.

A psychiatrist posted a comment on here last week describing what we are witnessing as monomania ( exaggerated or obsessive enthusiasm for or preoccupation with one thing), which I think describes it perfectly.

The UK government’s only response to the economy being in freefall is….to expand and intensify the regulations on the wearing of masks. Biden is making a federal universal mask mandate a central campaign pledge for his Presidential bid. This is mass psychosis manifesting at all levels of our society.

89490 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Richard O, 4, #811 of 1222 🔗

I completely agree that it’s a monomania. A previous example was the obsession of the media with Trump (of whom I am not a fan, let me say). BBC4 had a daily feature “The first 100 days” which is apparently an American thing about what a new president does in his first 100 days, and when that was over they had “Beyond 100 days”. Other parts of the media were likewise obsessed. But this mask thing takes monomania to a new level.

89458 ▶▶ Bella, replying to MadJock1, 5, #812 of 1222 🔗

Because they want us on our knees

89604 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, 1, #813 of 1222 🔗

Tough, they won’t get us.

89573 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MadJock1, 9, #815 of 1222 🔗

Welcome. I work in the museums and heritage sector and footfall is way down where I work and other museums that I have walked past. Unfortunately the cretins in government are not of this world, they come from another planet and have not gotten into their thick skulls that mandatory muzzling has been another nail in the coffin of retail, hospitality and heritage.

89397 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 33, #816 of 1222 🔗

I posted a couple of days back about my friends father who has not been being tested to see if his cancer was under control and now only has a few weeks left to live as it has spread throughout his body during the the five months of lockdown.

I have now been talking to a retired friend that I have known for years, and he was telling me that the exact same thing happened to his ex-wife who died 2 weeks ago and he was at her funeral this week.

This must be widespread throughout the country and the NHS reduced services are killing loads of people such as those with cancer, heart disease, kidney failure, those needing transplants, and i guess lots of people with sepsis as that is usually not diagnosed even without a lockdown.

I know no-one that has been infected with or died from/with COVID-19, but now I know two people that the lockdown has killed!

89409 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 11, #817 of 1222 🔗

This is beyond dispute. Although, in my case, a scan and review of cancer was not a critical issue, it was delayed for three months – and could have been.

89413 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to JohnB, 11, #818 of 1222 🔗

Shameful doesn’t begin to describe it. These deaths will not be reported and no media outlet will be writing glowing obituaries for these folks. Unless you die of Covid, you don’t count.

89426 ▶▶ tonys, replying to JohnB, 9, #819 of 1222 🔗

My father has advanced liver cancer, he has had one telephone appointment with his consultant since March, zero treatment in effect from rNHS.

89436 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 5, #820 of 1222 🔗

This is a friend of a friend. I didn’t know her. She started feeling ill at the start of lockdown and I think she was being treated for pneumonia, with remote GP access only she didn’t go and see a doctor, she got more and more ill until she had a crisis and got ambulanced away. They found it was advanced liver cancer, she died very shorty afterwards aged 47.

89442 ▶▶ peter, replying to JohnB, 12, #821 of 1222 🔗

Toby wants you to believe this is just incompetence. Bollox, this is wholesale murder of our loved ones.

89451 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to peter, 6, #822 of 1222 🔗

They REALLY HAD TO get those death stats up didn’t they. Without all that extra effort they they put it the death rate would have been PUNY and INSIGNIFACANT.

Nowhere near good enough to launch and float the Corona Boat on.

89506 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to peter, 2, #823 of 1222 🔗

I Think this information is important: (also posted elsewhere)

https://www.sott.net/article/438937-ExposeBillGates-Day-of-Action-2 (9:35 shows web of health money)

We need to gather an army to combat the SS (77th Brigade). We should advance into enemy territory and take the fakers on in overwhelming numbers. My son suggests the “Daily Mail” as a start.

89542 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to peter, 3, #824 of 1222 🔗

No one is this incompetent

89507 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to JohnB, 6, #825 of 1222 🔗

But nothing is more important than Covid. This is getting very serious now. How many people have died or were not offered timely (possibly life saving treatment) from the NHS?

89567 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to JohnB, 2, #826 of 1222 🔗

Anyone with right knowledge of the law know if there is a chance of this being class-action lawsuit (since that’s now possible in the UK) against the NHS?

89636 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #827 of 1222 🔗

Not possible for that I think. More under consumer law than this. But we can bring thousands of individual cases that will cripple the government from any action for decades.

Unless they settle up of course.

89700 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cicatriz, #828 of 1222 🔗

I may be wrong but I’m sure I read somewhere that the NHS has been given indemnity during the Covid crisis.

89598 ▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 2, #829 of 1222 🔗

Keep a record. You will be a witness in the murder trial.

89632 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to JohnB, 3, #830 of 1222 🔗

My colleague’s partner had urgent heart operation scheduled for March (referred last August). The operation was cancelled, he died of cardiac arrest in May, age 30. It is tragic. His brother wants to sue NHS but I am sceptical he will achieve anything.

89699 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JulieR, #831 of 1222 🔗

Please let Francis Hoar and Simon Dolan know about this – useful for their appeal case..

89677 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to JohnB, 1, #832 of 1222 🔗

Cancer will be one of the big winners from this crisis. As well as delays in treatment, funding and facilities for research have been decimated. Lost three friends to cancer during the lockdown, none to Covid.

90258 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to JohnB, #833 of 1222 🔗

I posed that last point on the DM just a few minutes ago:

Here’s two questions for you. I’m curious since I really don’t know how people will respond. 1. How many people do you know who have had the virus? 2. How many people do you know who have or are about to lose their jobs? Interesting to see which number is bigger.

One response of more job losses than COVID sufferers. 10 upvotes; 1 downvote. We’ll see how it plays.

89406 Carausius, replying to Carausius, 22, #834 of 1222 🔗

Covid Limerick time

So France has been knocked off the list
It’s time for us all to resist
Tear that mask off your face
Shouting: stuff track and trace
Two fingers with a flick of the wrist

89596 ▶▶ annie, replying to Carausius, 9, #835 of 1222 🔗

If the buggers can quarantine France
It is time for good folk to advance,
Shouting ‘All you fuck off,
It’s no more than a cough!’
And we’ll stick to that sensible stance.

89416 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #836 of 1222 🔗

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/doctors-lay-out-plan-to-punish-people-who-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-there-is-no-alternative

“August 11, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) – A coronavirus vaccine should be mandatory, and tax penalties, higher insurance premiums, and denial of many government and private services ought to be considered for those refusing the shot, three doctors argued in USA Today on Thursday.”

89422 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 17, #837 of 1222 🔗

With the proliferation of such blatant psychological coercion, in direct contravention of multiple international treaties and national laws, scientific method and all basic common sense and decency, it is no surprise that many of us (myself included) cannot help but conclude that there is a much darker agenda at play here.

89435 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 4, #838 of 1222 🔗

Just people of “scientific” bent who think everybody else inhabits one of their petri dishes. Doctors are always suggesting nonsense. Wasn’t too far back SOME doctors were suggesting the NHS should treat absolutely everybody everywhere in the world.

Bonkers obviously, but best ignored.

89449 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #839 of 1222 🔗

My MP refused to rule out making vaccines mandatory. She doesn’t appear to have a mind of her own so expect she was told to say that.

Bonkers? Maybe.
Evil? Yes.
Best ignored? You’re welcome to ignore it, but I’m taking it quite seriously.

89499 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Julian, 1, #840 of 1222 🔗

I would too. Who is your MP?

89512 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Laura Suckling, #841 of 1222 🔗

Julie Marson

89533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Julian, 1, #842 of 1222 🔗

Well, in your place I would be sending a strongly worded letter to her c.c. to BoJo. She is, to my horror, a conservative! WTAF!

89867 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Laura Suckling, #843 of 1222 🔗

She’s had a dozen strongly worded emails from me. Most have had no response. A couple have been replied to, with boilerplate replies. The only one where she went a smidgeon off narrative was wrt Cummings, who she clearly disapproves of, but didn’t come out and say so. Sad. She’s not a conservative. She’s an MP in the Conservative party. Not the same thing, sadly.

89872 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Laura Suckling, #844 of 1222 🔗

I emailed by local doctors with the same question and said they could not comment but would be guided by the NHS etc. So I basically took that to mean they would follow orders, and that it’s not a moral line in the sand for them. I have written to the GMC ethics committee now, currently awaiting a response.

89680 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Richard O, 2, #845 of 1222 🔗

It’s not even a “conspiracy” theory to posit that there is a much darker agenda at play. For it to be a conspiracy it would need to be hidden, but Bill Gates has come right out and stated that his goal is to vaccinate everyone on the planet and to have our vaccine history embedded under our skin to be scanned. Just check out his comments on a vaccine passport as a condition for engaging in public life. I’ve linked before to The Corbett Report’s documentary “Who is Bill Gates?” and it’s all out there in plain sight. He pretty much owns global health, so we have reason to be afraid.

https://www.corbettreport.com/gates/

89431 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Basics, 4, #846 of 1222 🔗

Do you know how Islam spread so quickly in the former provinces of the Christian Byzantine empire, following its conquest by Muhammad’s generals? Imposition of taxes on those members of the populace who refused to embrace the new religion.

Judging by the contents of this article, this may well be how the new order will be imposed, swiftly and without dissent, on our populations.

Me? I’ll choose to be one of the pariahs rather than play their infernal game…

89455 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, -5, #847 of 1222 🔗

I think that, Christianity has been more of an imposed infection than Islam.

89469 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to RickH, 3, #848 of 1222 🔗

I think most people would agree that all religions have had their less than edifying moments. Even blessed Buddhism has been responsible for some horrible sh’t in Burma.

89480 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Will, 16, #849 of 1222 🔗

Covid-19 bears all the hallmarks of an organised religion and/or cult. Never thought I’d see anything like it in my lifetime.

89515 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, 5, #850 of 1222 🔗

I’m currently listening to a podcast about Scientology, scarily similar to the cult of covid.

89594 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 4, #851 of 1222 🔗

Devil-worship.
With voodoo ( masks).

89514 ▶▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to RickH, 6, #852 of 1222 🔗

Nonsense.

Christianity spread through Europe more by conversion than conquest.

I’ve noticed tjht there’s something seriously wrong with you, both intellectually and morally., illustrated by your belief that the tyranny we’re experiencing is a consequence of voting Conservative at the last election.

89625 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ossettian, #853 of 1222 🔗

Hear hear. From a non-Conservative voter.

90531 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ossettian, #854 of 1222 🔗

Denial doesn’t cut the mustard. You protest too much :

  • The current dire state of civil society has occurred at the command of a Conservative government, led by a known morally corrupt narcissistic individual installed by the Conservative Party.

I don’t excuse any fellow travelers in this mission – including the pathetic non-Opposition parties. But first blame where blame belongs. Particularly when the dangers – if not to be specifically forecast – were very clear after previous attempts to corrupt the democratic process.

  • As to the imposition of other belief systems – I again hold no candle for any of them, and don’t care much for theocracies in general. I was just pointing out obvious fact that other theocratic hierarchies tend to the same forceful imposition of ideology. That’s pretty obvious in the history of domestic impositions of Christian dogma at home, and in the imposition by conquest in the Americas and Africa.

You’re quite entitled to your predelictions and prejudices, but incontinent ad hominen frothing at the mouth when an counter-perspective is stated isn’t impressive – more an endorsement.

89467 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #855 of 1222 🔗

For info thiscame to my attention from a share of a share. Jim Corr of the Corrs (yes!) Tweeted it out. Jim is very active in fighting back. He deserves a mention and credit.

89546 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 1, #856 of 1222 🔗

Jim Corr, Matt le Tissier and Peter Ebdon. It’s not going very well is it?

89597 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #857 of 1222 🔗

It’s not. But these guys deserve a thanks for their bit. Each of them showing more metal than vast numbers, seen like tgat they are impressive.

89626 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #858 of 1222 🔗

I visited, had a read, left a comment.

89496 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Basics, 5, #859 of 1222 🔗

Hang on a second, whatever happened to “First do no harm”?

This is getting out of hand now. Who is checking for conflicts of interest? How many high profile people or organisations have associations with you know who?

89563 ▶▶ Michel, replying to Basics, 1, #860 of 1222 🔗

These doctors should be dismissed at once!

89427 Basics, replying to Basics, 21, #861 of 1222 🔗

Criterium Du Dauphine. Full professional peloton stage racing through the Alpes. Water, Sweat and substantial heavy breathing in close proximity to each other. The Tour de France to come later in the month. These stage races are noyorious for stringing out athletes immune systems making them vulnerable to infection and illness.

It is a glorious uplifting spectacle to see the alpine scenery full of cycling colour.

What a farce the lock down is. My mind goes to krankie the disgusting human being saying she wants to weep at the sight of people enjoying a beach. She needs to be properly tried as soon as possible.

89440 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 1, #862 of 1222 🔗

Are there spectators?

89446 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 5, #863 of 1222 🔗

Just reported on them! Yes. Catch the race on itv4+1 or itv4 7pm tomorrow.

Now we have the press interviews .. it is not F1 no mask on rider he needs to breathe.

Press scrum.

89551 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, #864 of 1222 🔗

or ITV hub .. all three days so far …… i hadnt realised it was on..

89443 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #865 of 1222 🔗

Large crowd roadside too. Boulting comentator clear has been briefed to say all crowds are social distancing which they most certainky are not.

89445 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 2, #866 of 1222 🔗

Ah good to know. Tough lot, those cyclists, and cycling seems a bit less afflicted by posturing nonsense than most other sports.

89448 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 3, #867 of 1222 🔗

Its astonding its not banned from tv. France is a banned country afterall.

Ah now a rider interview with mask. Stupid looking idiot.

89454 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #868 of 1222 🔗

Arrgh! Masks all over. At least Gary Imlac dry humour is able to take the piss – “the horrors of human contact” – I think thats pretty good for the size of audience his words reach.

89591 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 4, #869 of 1222 🔗

It’s the Bad Puritan. (There were good puritans, honest God-fearing folk).
The Bad Puritan is notoriously haunted by the terrible fear that somebody, somewhere, might be having a good time.

89489 Aremen, 9, #870 of 1222 🔗

Everybody: please download, save and print the sign displayed earlier today by Major Panic.
comment image

89502 GetaGrip, 17, #871 of 1222 🔗

Normally quite chipper on Fridays, but not today.

Scotland (being on the naughty step) has to endure Sturgeon’s ‘tightening up’ of Regulations ensuring the hospitality sector comply with her Track or Treat rules, implemented today.
So that set the tone for the day.

Driving to work this morning I made a schoolboy error of switching on the radio, just in time to hear Nick Ferrari expressing surprise that’s lots of people who get the virus don’t have symptoms – really?! followed by a Public Health Specialist at Edinburgh opining that ‘but we still need to be cautious, because we don’t know the longterm effects!’

Jesus wept.

I’m no PH specialist, but perhaps a reasonable starting point, on the basis of past experience, the evidence so far, and not being a fuc*ing lemon, would be that the ‘long-term effects’ will be along the same lines as other coronaviruses and respiratory viruses in general? So the vast majority will be fine, some post-viral syndromes, and the few unluckies/susceptibles with Acute Resp Distress Syndrome sequalae.
So in the great scheme of the human condition, nothing to see here, move along, and step away from the PCR test unless you want your town locked down again by those political and medical intellectual giants who, God help us, are ‘in charge’.

Then I had a Swedish patient.
I was looking forward to bonding over his government and country not being a bunch of clueless Covid bedwetting wet-wipes. My opening shot of ‘So Sweden approached this like grown-ups, eh?’ was met with ‘ah well they’ve had a lot of deaths, comparatively, you know, so….’
End of chat.
Mind you, it’s the one time I’ve been grateful for wearing a face sieve, because he didn’t catch my mumbled, hidden groan of ‘oh for f*x sake…’

We have a trip booked to the Algarve in October.
I was reasonably optimistic that we’d squeak this in after the ‘hit’ and before the winter Covid vs Flu season’s fixture got underway.
But now it’s obvious that if 3 completely asymptomatic spotty teenagers in Lisbon test positive in October my holiday is fecked.

89511 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #872 of 1222 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20081893v3
Individual variation in susceptibility or exposure to SARS-CoV-2 lowers the herd immunity threshold
This was not accepted in the scientific paper because of the following reason
“Given the implications for public health, it is appropriate to hold claims around the herd immunity threshold to a very high evidence bar, as these would be interpreted to justify relaxation of interventions, potentially placing people at risk.” .
 No idea if this paper should not be published because of lacking scientific rigour. But not published because of this?

89549 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 2, #873 of 1222 🔗

That’s appalling politicization of science. Good thing we all just read the preprints. What matters is what they say and what evidence they give not the imprimatur of The Lancet or whomever. Do you know where they were trying to publish it?

89606 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, #874 of 1222 🔗

Sorry I have no idea.Just found this on Gomes twitter account

89656 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #875 of 1222 🔗

Fortunately I don’t think these attempts to suppress science work any better than trying to suppress a highly infectious repository virus.

They’ve been trying this for years with climate science, also highly politicized, but it’s not hard to find both sides of the argument.

89513 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #876 of 1222 🔗

https://youtu.be/X-OnxDDoF-I

Communist Covid Zero and Boris string puller Susan Michie. A short compendium. 10 mins.

89622 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #877 of 1222 🔗

We need zero Michie and the elimination of SAGE.

89519 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 13, #878 of 1222 🔗

On this site we are preaching to the converted.

We need to gather an army to combat the SS (77th Brigade). We should advance into enemy territory and take the fakers on in overwhelming numbers. (My son suggests the “Daily Mail” as a start as he get too little support there.)

89552 ▶▶ Roger Pearce, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #879 of 1222 🔗

Yes. Sites such as this and conversations such as this are vital. But we need to DO something. I am distressed by the lack of effective political opposition. I remember the Countryside March, for example. Why aren’t there a million people marching against this far more serious and sinister programme? Or are the great majority too brainwashed? If so, I despair.

89618 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #880 of 1222 🔗

I find if you denounce them as trolls they seem to evaporate without arguing.

90247 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to PastImperfect, #881 of 1222 🔗

The DM varies. Some articles are full of sceptics. Others, not so many. Right now the articles about people aborting their holidays in France are full of people saying “they should have known” and “no excuse.”

89530 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 28, #882 of 1222 🔗

On the health front line this week I have dealt with the mask question.
I had telephone triaged a patient who didn’t wish to wear a mask in the clinic . I said that was fine with me which was surprising to the patient ( they expect all doctors to be mask zealots ) ; we have a seperate consulting room near the entrance no problem . Personally I would prefer to see all patients without masks however I would be denounced to the CCG if I did.

The keenest zealots are often sadly the reception staff ; maybe its the 24/7 coronaporn on the TV. I must admit one did message me to say if I was OK seeing a maskless patient .

Another patient this week told me about terrible scenes he had seen in the town where there were crowds who weren’t social distancing and the second wave was coming . They were expecting me to reinforce their viewpoint . I changed the subject and moved onto the weather.

89534 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #883 of 1222 🔗

Why didn’t you put her straight and say we have almost certainly attained heard immunity and that there is a chance of about 1 person in what about 1200 now who might have “it” and the chance of getting “it” from them is tiny, and the chance of getting ill if you do get “it” is tiny, so don’t worry about it

89641 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Two-Six, 14, #884 of 1222 🔗

I didnt put her ” straight ” about herd immunity for the obvious reason that after 5 months people have become so indoctrinated by the BBC/ Sky / Media point of view that I would have been denounced . It would be akin to someone in 1916 London saying that maybe the first world war wasnt such a good idea .

89540 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Peter Thompson, 11, #885 of 1222 🔗

GP receptionists maximising small amounts of power. Who’d have thought?

89566 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Tom Blackburn, #886 of 1222 🔗

as new as marching forward…

89667 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #887 of 1222 🔗

In my fortunately limited dealings with the NHS I have usually found that medical staff do a good job but administrative staff such as receptionists range from OK to useless.

89550 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #888 of 1222 🔗

As an aside, I visited the Magistrates Court today. In a professional capacity, obvs. Masks through the entrance / waiting area. Told in no uncertain terms to get it off in front of the judge.

89665 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, #889 of 1222 🔗

Judge or magistrate ?

89617 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #890 of 1222 🔗

GP reception staff seem to be recruited on the basis of their Nazi tendencies.

89642 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #891 of 1222 🔗

No most of the receptionists , nursing staff and health care assistants I work with are actually lovely people.

89695 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #892 of 1222 🔗

You are their employer – of course they will be nice to you 😉

89697 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #893 of 1222 🔗

I have no doubt they are but as a patient who has no option but to visit the hospital weekly, I can tell you that from a patient’s perspective it has become a hostile, dehumanising environment. I dread going now – the aggressive greeting at the entrance- what are you doing here, where are you going and where’s your appointment Letter couldn’t make it feel less like the public service it’s meant to be. Why aren’t the staff speaking out?

89797 ▶▶ Will, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #894 of 1222 🔗

My daughter, who has developed calcinosis on top of her JDM during this fiasco, and I bumped into our general paediatrician while we were in hospital for physio last week. It was in the empty reception area and I could see he was itching to touch my daughter to gauge whether her lumps had changed but he then thought better of it lest someone comment as he wasn’t in full PPE. I am fairly certain he thinks this whole business is a nonsense but he looked genuinely scared of following his instinct as a clinician. How counter productive and also how profoundly sad…

89536 wat tyler, replying to wat tyler, #895 of 1222 🔗

Hi again everyone .I replied to Edward,Philip P, Julian, Mr Dee, Margaret ,Lisa from toronto,Kath Andrews .All my post say awaiting approval . please tell me if im doing something wrong ?. Have to go out in a minute and want to know if their getting through .

89863 ▶▶ Julian, replying to wat tyler, 1, #896 of 1222 🔗

If you’ve only recently set up an account, it takes a while to approve. Then all your comments will appear. Meantime you are best off commenting without logging in – the only thing I know of that you are not able to do without loggin in is to post images.

89914 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Julian, #897 of 1222 🔗

Thanks Julian they have all appeared ,guess it just takes a while to come through.I will get the hang of it.

89544 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #898 of 1222 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.09.20171249v1
Gigantic study from Iceland
Results: From January 31 to April 30, 2020, a total of 45,105 individuals (12% of the Icelandic population) were tested for SARS-CoV-2, of whom 1797 were positive, yielding a population incidence of 5 per 1000 individuals. The most common presenting symptoms were myalgia (55%), headache (51%), and non-productive cough (49%). At the time of diagnosis, 5.3% of cases reported no symptoms and 3.1% remained asymptomatic during follow-up  Conclusion: In the setting of broad access to diagnostic testing, the majority of SARS-CoV-2-positive patients were found to have mild symptoms. Fever and dyspnea were less common than previously reported. A substantial proportion of patients did not meet recommended case definitions at the time of diagnosis.

89660 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to swedenborg, 1, #899 of 1222 🔗

Only 3% asymptomatic? That seems very low, compared to what I’ve heard elsewhere (50-80%). Surely that rubbishes the mask argument?

89673 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #900 of 1222 🔗

But in the article is decribed rather complictated that they estimate the asymptomtic true rate 30%. There was also testing of two types in the study and cases came from both,one cohort of clinical cases presenting and the other screening of population similar to pillar 2.Rather diffcult read but I’m sure it will be quoted as a correct estimate of symptoms of C-19 in future books.

89548 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 34, #901 of 1222 🔗

The data seems to be clear that Covid was a passing panic. No shame in that. I would panic if ebola, or the plague, or a novel and possibly artificial virus were about.

But now we have got the point where public health officials and academics, aided and abetted by the BBC, are just pushing nonsense. There doesn’t seem to be anything to stop them. I think the politicians are terrified of being accused of killing people. All these other negative consequences don’t seem to matter.

I think we have learnt two things. The idea of life as a balance of risks has no traction. The idea of cost benefits versus life likewise. We are simply rabbits in the headlights when the health professionals and academics tell us that “people will die”. It’s like a disaster movie, except that millions of real people will lose their livelihood.

89557 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to WhyNow, -4, #902 of 1222 🔗

You saying “passing panic”.

If that is the case why do France have 12000 new supposed cases today?

I am sceptic too but I’d like to understand how to explain that to someone who is worried about this.

Where are these so called 12000 people catching it from?

Yes increased testing but are they just finding that these people have had previously as they clearly can’t all be ill.

But that begs the question why they are being tested if they are not ill.

89564 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to hotrod, 7, #903 of 1222 🔗

12k cases… prolly bullshit…

89574 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Castendo, 1, #904 of 1222 🔗

What does that mean?

89664 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to hotrod, #905 of 1222 🔗

Excrement from a male bovine.

89602 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to hotrod, #906 of 1222 🔗

On Friday, France reported 2,846 new coronavirus cases in 24 hours – the highest number since lockdown restrictions were eased.
The seven-day average increased to 2,041, marking the first time it has surpassed 2,000 since 20 April.

89610 ▶▶▶ Joseph Collins, replying to hotrod, 6, #907 of 1222 🔗

It’s a corona virus and you don’t catch it. We are a petri dish for these viruses, they are part of the human condition & we need each other. You can test positive for these viruses at any time without being ill in any way nor infectious.

89614 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 3, #908 of 1222 🔗

Why ARE they being tested if they’re not ill? That’s the point!

89630 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to hotrod, 9, #909 of 1222 🔗

It’s fairly straightforward. The so called cases being reported are just results from the utterly unreliable and totally unfit for purpose RT-PCR test. These alleged positives cases do not mean that people are ill, or will become ill, or that they are infectious.

Hospitalisations and deaths “with” Covid-19 are now extremely low. Total deaths from all causes have been running below the five year average for the past seven weeks in the UK.

Clearly for much of the world at least, Covid-19 is now, and possibly always was, an almighty scam. The very real concern is, why are the bastards doing it.

89805 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Rowan, 1, #910 of 1222 🔗

I think that the other thing worth pointing out here is:

if we assume that France has reached herd immunity, this does not mean that everyone in the country is immune and so no one can catch it. It means that a sufficiently large proportion of the population has a sufficient level of immunity that the virus will continually come up against an immune person when it tries to spread and so the spread will be very slow.

However, viruses very rarely completely disappear (though SARS 1 seems to have done). It will be kicking around in society forever, infecting a few people all the time and more and more of those people will have some degree of learned immunity, meaning that it will become milder over time. What you end up with is just another one of multiple “common cold” type viruses circulating through the population doing very few people very much harm at all.

89649 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to hotrod, 2, #911 of 1222 🔗

They are being tested because you increasingly have to be to access hospital treatments and other services. Employers like Amazon are increasingly insisting staff get tested. That’s how people with no symptoms get nailed by the test. That and false positives.

89712 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to hotrod, 4, #912 of 1222 🔗

We are in a very odd position. We can point to evidence that PCR test false positives may be as high as 2.3%.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895843/S0519_Impact_of_false_positives_and_negatives.pdf

We can point to evidence that PCR tests are positive up to 83 days after infection due to spurious, non-infectious viral debris:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.25.20162107v2

And yet we are portrayed as conspiracy theory nutters. No. The nutters are the ones who see ‘surges’ in the inevitable results from increased rates of testing, or the testing of unrepresentative, self-selecting clusters of people.

89801 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to hotrod, #913 of 1222 🔗

Anyone can request a test now without having to obtain a medical prescription for in in France, so you get loads of curious people, hypochondriacs, and those with a slight sniffle or a headache. There is also mass testing in workplaces of people being performed who are at work and fit and healthy.

The lockdown restrictions have to be justified, so the only way to do this is to test healthy people as they know that this will produce lots of positives as the tests are unreliable, but by doing this it allows them to maintain their agenda and put more restrictive laws into place.

89613 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to WhyNow, 3, #914 of 1222 🔗

and the millions not being treated by the National Covid Service.

89553 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #915 of 1222 🔗

Retail report:

Went to my local Co-op for the first time since mandatory muzzling, got in without any problems. It was very quiet and apart from me, the only one not muzzled were a few of the staff.

They did have the PA of having to wear a face mask although please show consideration to those who are unable to wear them due to being exempt.

Its good that they do that as I think they’re the only supermarket who have done that.

Due to the bad weather, the main road in my area was rather dead – ditto public transport hardly anyone going in and out the underground station and for every bus I walk past there would be at least only 2-3 people.

89646 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #916 of 1222 🔗

Sainsbury’s broadcast a loop message about respecting those unable to wear a mask our socially distance. On the one hand it protects us from attack, on the other hand it does make me feel a bit “special needs”!

89804 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #917 of 1222 🔗

Not heard that in my local Sainsbury’s but then again its a small one and the staff and customers are laid back. I suspect I will hear that when I go to a big one.

That said well done to Sainsbury’s for stating that people who can’t social distance should be treated with respect. That was one thing I was trying to get across certain thick people during my return to work training.

89556 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #918 of 1222 🔗

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-whyhttps://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why

A well written article why Africa has been less affected. But the virus has been widespread in studies done with surprising number of seropositive in Mocambique, Malawi and Kenya.

89619 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, #919 of 1222 🔗

404 on your link, this might work..

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6505/756

89668 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to PoshPanic, #920 of 1222 🔗

Thanks

89627 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to swedenborg, 3, #921 of 1222 🔗

Just maybe the prophylactic effects of widespread HCQ use?
Taken widely in malarial zones, so people still catch the virus but show no symptoms?

89671 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Nessimmersion, #922 of 1222 🔗

Perhaps but probaly many genuine asymptomatic or mild cases

89561 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #923 of 1222 🔗

All quoted from edinbutgh live:

Edinburgh coronavirus conspiracy group barred from the Meadows by council

The group were holding a stall in the popular Edinburgh public park when they told teen girls wearing face masks it was ‘akin to wearing a swastika’

“They’re entitled to their own opinion but when that opinion can start to possibly endanger people I think that’s when you’ve got to say something.

“If people took what they were saying to heart it could endanger their lives.”

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-coronavirus-conspiracy-group-barred-18772763

89803 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 1, #924 of 1222 🔗

“They are entitled to their own opinion, but not to express it in a public place”

89568 MadJock1, replying to MadJock1, 8, #925 of 1222 🔗

Just been reading this about the dire, and worsening, state of the aviation industry in Europe thanks to the ongoing lunacy on travel restrictions.

https://www.avitrader.com/2020/08/14/covid-19-impact-worsening-within-europe-warns-iata/

The key comment is :
In June it had been estimated that nearly six million aviation-supported jobs were at risk, that figure now has been revised upwards to seven million . “It is desperately worrying to see a further decline in prospects for air travel this year, and the knock-on impact for employment and prosperity. It shows once again the terrible effect that is being felt by families across Europe as border restrictions and quarantine continue. It is vital that governments and industry work together to create a harmonized plan for reopening borders,”

Remember those job figures are just for Europe. However, I must say that I don’t think some (most) airlines and airports are doing themselves any favours by introducing / accepting measures to keep travellers “safe” which make the prospect of flying less appealing that root canal surgery without anaesthetic (if you could find a dentist that would still do it). They should be arguing not just for the removal of cross border restrictions but the removal of requirements for masks, temperature checks, repetitive disinfection and all the other garbage that has been introduced in the name of “safety”. Actually, on the subject of genuine passenger safety I wonder if anyone has looked at the implications of mask wearing if the cabin depressurise and people need to use real masks – oxygen ones – both in terms of the ability to don them PDQ and then the amount of oxygen getting through whatever else the passenger has smothered themselves with.

89579 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MadJock1, 7, #926 of 1222 🔗

I bet they haven’t looked at the oxygen mask/face-mask thing at all. I would expect if they did they would not allow passengers to wear facemasks. Following a de pressurisation people have very little time to get the oxygen mask on. Messing about with a face mask would be valuable time lost. Also in an evacuation, would they hinder escape from an aircraft. Seconds count in this situation, literally seconds between a huge disaster and everybody getting out. What if somebody got their face masked pulled over their eyes in the panic, fell, blocked the isle….

Anyway the agenda is to destroy air travel to save the planet from carbon, so they don’t care. They want the aviation industry to collapse. Airlines are like STATUES to these enviro fascists.

89587 ▶▶▶ MadJock1, replying to Two-Six, 4, #927 of 1222 🔗

I agree 100% on both counts. The issue of evacuation had crossed my mind especially as the authorities are already looking at revising the certification requirements to address the fact that the self loading cargo habitually try to take their bags with them – add the masks and you could be looking at a lot of dead bodies if an aircraft burns. On the climate change mob one of the first things I thought when this entire panicdemic stared was that they had a hand in it or were at the very least making as much out of it as they possibly could. As far as I’m concerned this was proved beyond all reasonable doubt when it came out about who Ferguson was shagging.

89644 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to MadJock1, 4, #928 of 1222 🔗

I think you two are getting a bit carried away here. Masks are a pain and an unnecessary encumbrance to daily life and I don’t wear one but the idea they present a risk in exiting a plane is a bit OTT. Aircraft are full of flammable and/or cumbersome crap we bring on board from scarves to laptops, coats to cuddly toys. People are far more likely to find the aisle blocked by someone who has lost their spectacles or someone insistent on saving their designer handbag than by a discarded face mask. When we get bogged down in things that will never happen we just make ourselves look as paranoid as the bedwetters.

89743 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #929 of 1222 🔗

Perhaps we are getting bogged down however it is a serious point. The airline industry is paranoid about safety and everything that happens in a plane is risk-assessed. I think that they have not risk assessed face nappies in planes. Just for the increased risk of hypoxia induced issues with passengers and the elevated risk of heart attacks and strokes would put them off mandating them I think. Also the issue of Oxygen masks is significant. They really do need to be in place immediately or unconsciousness will ensue pretty fast.

89601 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MadJock1, 3, #930 of 1222 🔗

They should be arguing not just for the removal of cross border restrictions but the removal of requirements for masks, temperature checks, repetitive disinfection and all the other garbage that has been introduced in the name of “safety”.

Well said. I would say this not only for aviation but for all sectors in general – this is all simply theatre where they’re spending money in the name of “safety” that they don’t have (given the lack of income over the past few months). Not to mention that masks and repetitive disinfection has serious consequences for our health and immune systems whilst temperature checks are unreliable and people who do them half the time don’t even know how to interpret what these thermometers tell them..

89639 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to MadJock1, #931 of 1222 🔗

I would suggest if you have a cabin depressurisation and oxygen masks dropping from above even the biggest Covid bedwetters will realign their priorities. The fact nobody is thinking about the issue suggests everyone in the industry knows that masks are purely performative and when there is a real emergency passengers will discard them and grab their oxygen masks.

89657 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MadJock1, 2, #932 of 1222 🔗

The problem is, the airlines think that people want all the crap (sadly, plenty do). And if they’re still not flying, it must mean that they need to add yet more crap to make them feel even safer. Just like Hancock supposedly thinks that masks will give people the confidence to shop again… That one worked out well for him, didn’t it?

89724 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, #933 of 1222 🔗

Or, there’s a clear plan to cull 95% of the airline industry. Airlines don’t get much of a say

89570 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #934 of 1222 🔗

Scottish jury trials will now be streamed into cinemas to allow for jurors to social distance.

Not a joke. Why is a cinema required and not just any other hall?

89585 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 1, #935 of 1222 🔗

For show

89612 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Two-Six, 6, #936 of 1222 🔗

As the jurors have to be screened.

89663 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Rowan, 3, #937 of 1222 🔗

You’re projecting …

89877 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #938 of 1222 🔗

See edinburgh zoo drive in – are trials going to soon be drive in affairs?

89575 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, #939 of 1222 🔗

Anyone know if theres an anti mask protest tomorrow?
I’m eager to go if there is….

89583 ▶▶ Carlo, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #940 of 1222 🔗

Dunno 29th is the big one.

89592 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A Meshiea, 2, #941 of 1222 🔗

https://www.standupx.info/

Scroll down to events.

89647 ▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Cheezilla, #942 of 1222 🔗

The lineup for 29th is just awesome!!

89582 Carlo, replying to Carlo, #943 of 1222 🔗

Who here is coming on the 29th??

89584 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carlo, #944 of 1222 🔗

Is that the doctor’s march in London?

89603 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #945 of 1222 🔗

Apparently Kirklees has an Outbreak Control Board.
I was heartened to read this:

The Board believes it is important to note that Kirklees is in a different position from many of the local authorities who were made subject to these new restrictions at the same time. Data released late last week showed the rate of infection in Kirklees had reduced by a third over the preceding week. Only one other local authority in this group also saw a reduction in infections and that was an area with a higher rate than Kirklees. If this weekly reduction becomes a trend, we question whether these restrictions are a proportionate response to local circumstances. For that reason, we call on government to clarify its criteria for communities to enter and exit these measures as a matter of urgency.

89701 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, #946 of 1222 🔗

the rate of infection in Kirklees had reduced by a third over the preceding week.”

What a patent load of old nonsense, illustrating the fictional nature of these ‘outbreaks’.

89616 Paul, replying to Paul, 8, #947 of 1222 🔗

I don’t like this virtual reality simulation,can we stop it and try a different one ?,perhaps the one we had in February ?.

89659 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Paul, 7, #948 of 1222 🔗

We are ruled by Boris the spaffing Johnson, Matt Handcock and a police commissioner called Caressida Dick. This is a crappy porn film for mask fetishists.

89623 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, #949 of 1222 🔗

A holiday idea, for anyone brave enough at the moment…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uro9d0qufUY

Seems like there’s a growing number of these parodies doing the rounds

89628 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to PoshPanic, 7, #950 of 1222 🔗

I would rather BBQ my bollocks than go to Disney, even before COVID.

89633 Mark, replying to Mark, 5, #951 of 1222 🔗

600,000 tests, 11,633 positive test results in France

False positive rate 1% would give 6000 “cases”. False positive rate 5% would give 30,000 “cases”.

Are we saying that the test data are consistent with there being no covid19 in France atm (not saying that is the case, just that the test data alone would be consistent with that hypothesis being true)?

89640 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 3, #952 of 1222 🔗

Yes, easily. There’s no guarantee that the test is better than 98% specific.

Of course it’s exceedingly unlikely that there is no SARS2 in France but all we can reliably conclude is that there is very little.

A useful data point that nobody tells you except the ONS is the asymptomatic ratio. If more than 60-80% of your positives are asymptomatic then that’s a good sign your test specificity has run out of steam.

89658 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Mark, 13, #953 of 1222 🔗

Am I correct in thinking that getting a Covid test is still voluntary unless it is part of your work e.g. medical and care home staff. It rather begs the question of why, if you have no symptoms, your would get a Covid test? Wild horses would not drag me anywhere near a pillar 2 test centre.
At the core of this and as far as I am aware, the UK has no stated policy on test results. (so called cases). A death is a death, someone in hospital with serious symptoms is a case but what is a test result with no symptoms? what does it mean? We do not know, we have never been here before, we have never tested for asymptomatic flu in the summertime and so we have no comparison. So we are gathering all these results and do not really know what they mean and when we take action based on test results we have no idea of what is the criteria and what is the end-game.
In management terms at least the mantra ‘flatten the curve, protect the NHS & save lives’ was a clear project objective and we have now achieved it (at great cost). But the current situation of reacting to test results is headless chicken management of the worst sort, no understanding, no clear objective and no defined end game.
The news has just featured an item on UK people in France dashing for the Channel ports to get back to the UK before the quarantine deadline kicks in. A sort of bizarre re-run of Dunkirk! You would certainly not let anyone in this Government Run the local whelk stall!

89662 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #954 of 1222 🔗

Excellent point about the difference between having a clear objective and merely reacting to events. Let’s keep publicising that one.

89681 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #955 of 1222 🔗

In management terms at least the mantra ‘flatten the curve, protect the NHS & save lives’ was a clear project objective and we have now achieved it (at great cost). But the current situation of reacting to test results is headless chicken management of the worst sort, no understanding, no clear objective and no defined end game.

Agree about the current situation – Toby characterises it well, above, as a kid at the wheel of a racing car.

Worth bearing in mind that the original stated goal (before the dramatic shifting of the goalposts to suppression) of “ flatten the curve, protect the NHS & save lives ” was actually achieved immediately it was stated, because we now know that the peak of the epidemic passed before lockdown was implemented, and there was actually never any danger of even approaching NHS capacity, let alone exceeding it.

That this has never been announced by the government reflects the fact that opportunists in and advising the government who wanted policy instead to be suppression took advantage of the compliant situation created by fear-mongering propaganda and behavioural insight “nudging” manipulation to shift the goalposts, increasing the costs inflicted on the country catastrophically.

We are still paying the costs of that policy shift and will be for many years to come.

89694 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Martindale, #956 of 1222 🔗

How come people are being employed to do tests, money is being spent on this and meanwhile no one can get treated for any other illness..?

89722 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Carrie, 1, #957 of 1222 🔗

There is huuuuuge money being made for private companies carrying on P2 tests. It is now in their interests to ensure the government continues.

89739 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #958 of 1222 🔗

“But the current situation of reacting to test results is headless chicken management of the worst sort, no understanding, no clear objective and no defined end game”.
This is because the END GAME IS SECRET. It’s to use the excuse of a virus to transform the world. So this is why the goal post keep moving, 3 weeks to flatten the sombrero turning into 6 bastard months!

This is the SCAM that is The Corona Project. Mass testing keeps the ball rolling when every other metric of measuring the COVID DISASTER is showing clearly that SARS2-Cov a big nothing burger.
This is operation F*&k the world and they aren’t finished yet by a long chalk.

89824 ▶▶ Colin, replying to Mark, #959 of 1222 🔗

For a while we were getting less than 0.5% of tests coming back positive in Scotland, this suggests that a one percent false positive is on the high side. However I think the PCR test is still much more sensitive than it needs to be, it’s only run weekly for health workers which allows ample opportunity for you to get infected and infect others.

90068 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Colin, #960 of 1222 🔗

Thing is the sensitivity of the test obviously varies according to how it is carried out, and this can vary from place to place and from time to time.

The point made here repeatedly, though, is that it’s fine for certain purposes but it’s not fine for mass use in situations of very low prevalence if the results are then going to be presented as representing numbers of actual illnesses.

89638 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 33, #961 of 1222 🔗

I have an idea for the Government.

They talked in the past about using the Isle of Wight as a guinea pig for their “track and trace” app nonsense.

I live in Chelmsford, Essex. Population nearly 200k.

Let’s ring fence the entire place.

Yes that’s right.

Bizarre, I know, but how is it crazier than the rest of the lunacy going on, seriously?!!

We have a hospital. We have shops. We have a football stadium. We have a race course. We have care homes. We have big shopping centres. We are densely populated. We have park and ride busy buses.

Let’s ring fence Chelmsford. Blockade it if you have to. Let’s do that for a month.

Now….that’s done.

Rules as follows:

No social distancing
No masks
Mass gatherings
No nonsense, real life, old normal.
No discharging of at-risk NHS patients to our care homes.

Let’s do that for a month. Let’s be guinea pigs.

Those that don’t want to, can take a holiday somewhere or cower in their homes.

Let’s then see if we all die and end up in our hospital. I’d happily take the risk and be part of the experiment.

I know we will all come out unscathed.

A real life experiment that we can prove to the masses this whole thing is just a nonsense that is now getting seriously out of hand!

89676 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to mrjoeaverage, 7, #962 of 1222 🔗

Can I come??? I’d happily take part in that experiment.

89729 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #963 of 1222 🔗

ME2!

89678 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to mrjoeaverage, 4, #964 of 1222 🔗

I said the same thing for Bournemouth, Poole and Christchurch. It’s a contained area. Just get on with it.

89683 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #965 of 1222 🔗

Good idea from an Essex boy (Upminster) now exiled in the north west blockade!

89820 ▶▶ Colin, replying to mrjoeaverage, #966 of 1222 🔗

I’ve wanted this for Scotland since at least June. Shut the southern frontier and then abolish all the restrictions within Scotland, just let this thing rip. At least us natives could get a normal holiday in our own country. What would transpire is an upsurge on “cases” but strangely no surge in hospital admissions. Well I can but dream, this would require an ethno nationalist state, rather than the current parcel of woke anglophobes.
Incidentally we now have a 200 case “surge” in my hometown Aberdeen but no hospital admissions. Nic Sturg un is still “furious” though.

89648 swedenborg, 6, #967 of 1222 🔗

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122459555/coronavirus-former-cook-islands-prime-minister-dr-joe-williams-in-hospital-with-covid19

Cook Islands is semi-independent of NZ and even more isolated islands.

“Former Cook Islands prime minister Dr Joe Williams, 82, a distinguished medical practitioner in Auckland, has been admitted to hospital with C-19.
His medical practice was near the Americold cold store at the centre of the new community-transmission virus cluster in New Zealand.
The practice is used by many Auckland Cook Islanders, prompting concern about the risk to others in the community – and about the 41 people who were meant to be returning on this afternoon’s flight.
This set off an avalanche of fast-moving events between the two countries”

So now air flight cancelled and spat between the two countries as Cook Islands have no C-19.
So perhaps time to isolate Cook Islands from NZ. This is getting more weird by the day.

89650 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #968 of 1222 🔗

Aaaargh!

89720 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #969 of 1222 🔗

Best summary of 2020 I’ve read so far …

89742 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to JohnB, 1, #970 of 1222 🔗

Sums 2020 up perfectly.

89655 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 9, #971 of 1222 🔗

Why is there no analysis on testing. Who is being tested, why are they being tested, where are they tested, what symptoms have they got, % confidence of test etc. Don’t think we will get it. But at the end of the day why test at all when the bottom line is that hardly anyone is dying or being hospitalised. Just what are the benefits??

89679 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Alan Billingsley, 12, #972 of 1222 🔗

Carl Heneghan at the CEBM has raised a number of issues on testing and has alerted us that a team of lawyers in Germany are planning a legal challenge to Covid testing. It is a shame because PCR testing is essentially a very useful, powerful and important diagnostic tool but needs understanding, insight and experience to use well but in my view it has been abused with Covid mass testing.
Effectively mass covid testing has become a medieval witch hunt, we find witches everywhere but then instead of burning the witch we burn our sanity, reason and our economy.
We should be running this with logical rational reasoning instead the whole thing is being run on febrile, hysterical panic fed by test results which nobody really understands.

89690 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Alan Billingsley, 2, #973 of 1222 🔗

Benefits to government – mass DNA database of the population..

89741 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Carrie, 3, #974 of 1222 🔗

Well they are certainly collecting plenty of material. Work colleague described the process of having a swab first poked down his nose until he almost vomited, then down his throat.

Sounds delightful.

Why anyone would volunteer, I do not know.

89750 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #975 of 1222 🔗

Yeah I’ll not be allowing that in my facial orifices whatsoever

89780 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Eddie, #976 of 1222 🔗

Could be worse, could be per rectum. Wonder if that would deter the sheeples.

89661 DJ Dod, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #977 of 1222 🔗
89675 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to DJ Dod, 1, #978 of 1222 🔗

OMG, I wasn’t expecting that! Best laugh I’ve had all day.

89763 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to DJ Dod, #979 of 1222 🔗

Requires face fck.
Unfortunately I wont participate

89672 Yawnyaman, 2, #981 of 1222 🔗

History demonstrates that it is surprisingly easy to accustom a nation or people to slavery..

89688 James Leary #KBF, 9, #982 of 1222 🔗

They (men in grey suits) are waiting for Boris to load himself up with even more shitcans which he will carry when he’s heaved out. I do wish they would hurry up.

89693 4096, replying to 4096, 27, #983 of 1222 🔗

At my wits’ end. I’m starting another year at university in Sept and it’s all going to be online. When will this insanity finally end? Why does it just keep going on and on? How can so many people be so docile and so stupid?

89718 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to 4096, 1, #984 of 1222 🔗

1) The Zen dudes might suggest it has already ended.
2) Human stupidity, or malice, or …
3) You clearly have many more people to meet.

(Whatcha studying ?)

89752 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to 4096, 8, #985 of 1222 🔗

My daughter is going back as well, but at least she’s going to have some in-person instruction. She goes to a really small university in a small town in Nova Scotia (Canada). We started paying rent on an apartment back in May, so we were going to send her back no matter what, but were very pleased that the school decided to open. Having said that, they’ve given the professors the option of how they want to teach. Despite there being one case in the whole province as of today, it appears a majority won’t be back in the classroom. We feel fortunate that she’ll have half her classes in person, which is more than most university students will get. And with one case, they’ve mandated masks everywhere. It’s insanity and like you, I have not idea how so many people can be so stupid all at once.

89794 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to 4096, #986 of 1222 🔗

A student told me he is expecting on line lectures but tutorials in lecture halls sounds like fun.

89711 Not Tiger Woods, 1, #987 of 1222 🔗

are people waiting for an instruction from Boris…” yes. Little while ago on the news, I saw people literally saying, almost quite literally, “Near my house I have a wooded area & a park. I don’t know where I can go to walk. do I go the woods or the park? I don’t know where I can go to do my exercise. do I go to the woods or the park? the Government haven’t been specific.”

“I think I may have symptoms, been sneezing a bit lately. Do I use a handkerchief, or a tissue? Boris didn’t make it clear. And if it’s a tissue, must it be one of those extra large ones, or am I allowed to make do with a pocket of handy andies? Boris hasn’t mentioned the handy andies…”

89713 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 3, #988 of 1222 🔗

Someone below asked why would anyone without symptoms get tested. I know I certainly wouldn’t and I know of no-one directly or indirectly that has.

So, here’s a question. Who on the thread knows of someone who has been tested?

According to government reporting, there have been a total of 5,051,751 pillar 1 and 6,419,674 pillar 2 antigen tests performed. This adds up to just under 11.5 million tests, or one in six of the population.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public#antigen-tests-pillars-1-and-2-uk

I suspect few, if any of us, know anyone who has been tested, just like very few of us know anyone who has contracted the virus.

So, are these yet another set of manufactured figures?

89719 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Howie59, 4, #989 of 1222 🔗

Unfortunately I know plenty
2 x middle ages guys from cycling club, both took kids + wife along – both were cos a kid had ‘a temperature’ (no, I dont get it either)
1 x 26yr old colleague before travelling to Italy today (took test start of week – so, er, pointless) – cos of ‘going to see my mum, dont want to take it over to her’
1 x 25yr old cousin + his girlfriend – cos they were going to see our grandmother, even though she’d already had it in April.

All of them voluntarily going along, all negative, all wasting ~£120 of our taxes for each test & all utterly needless.

89760 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mark II, 15, #990 of 1222 🔗

These people are sealing their own fates, as well as our own. Only a lunatic would get tested voluntarily.

I know a pensioner couple, both pushing eighty, who got tested last week. They went because sometime next year they want to visit their son in Austria, who has a new baby.

This is what happens when people watch the BBC.

89726 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Howie59, 4, #991 of 1222 🔗

I know one person, she phoned in sick to her care job, said she had a sore throat, her boss flipped her wig and said she needed to go for a test. it was negative. We know her fairly well and we were crappin ourselves that we would get tracked…Silly lady….Her chappy got tested too.

89728 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Howie59, 2, #992 of 1222 🔗

I know three people, all tested negative.

One had a temperature, one works in a care home so has to get tested weekly & the third one was offered the chance to get tested as part of some university study.

Why anyone would volunteer to get tested I do not know.

89751 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Howie59, 7, #993 of 1222 🔗

Friends of ours became grandparents last month and the new parents insisted that they and other family members be tested before visiting them and the baby. A friend of my daughter’s was going on a camping trip with some buddies and one of them insisted the rest get tested before the trip. The others had the good sense to say no, so the bedwetter stayed back. So based on my very small sample set, a fair few people are getting tested because someone else insists they do and not because they have symptoms.

89762 ▶▶ commononsense, replying to Howie59, 5, #994 of 1222 🔗

A friend of mine works in admin at a private hospital. everyone is tested weekly. At the start a couple of her colleagues tested positive but were asymptomatic. I have often wondered if all these weekly tests are included in the testing figures. There must be thousands of repeat tests done weekly at all sorts of facilities.
Also, 2 close family members have just received letters asking them to take part in the ONS randomvoluntary covid testing programme. Needless to say both declined the invitation.

89793 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Howie59, 1, #995 of 1222 🔗

Some care workers and nurses that I know since it is compulsory, weekly.

89807 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Howie59, #996 of 1222 🔗

In discussion before it was suggested, fairly reasonably, that multiple tests on the same case/person may be happening. Perhaps two or three used to create a confirmed hospital case.

89816 ▶▶ Coronamoana, replying to Howie59, 2, #997 of 1222 🔗

The daughter (a nurse) of a friend of mine was unwell right near the beginning of all of this. It was diagnosed as tonsillitis but after a week or two, she was tested and confirmed positive. Four family members living with her were subsequently tested and all proved negative.

My daughter was given a blood test through work a couple of weeks ago and was told she had antibodies.

A friend working in a private hospital is tested weekly and has always received a negative result.

A family member showing strong symptoms back in March/April was denied a test, being told it wasn’t necessary.

Make of this what you will! Nothing makes any sense to me!

89727 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 17, #998 of 1222 🔗

Tough day today. Sick of living like this. Need a glimmer of hope things are gonna be ok…

89731 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RDawg, 5, #999 of 1222 🔗

Barcelona conceded 8 goals this evening. Gotta be up there with portents like ravens flying out of trees, three witches predicting death, etc.

89734 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to RDawg, 9, #1000 of 1222 🔗

If you can, take a few days off and take a break in North Wales. I’ve travelled extensively the last few weeks and its about 85% normal here at the moment…

89748 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to RDawg, 10, #1001 of 1222 🔗

Wish I could help, but it’s been that kind of day for me as well. Had to leave my country haven and come back to the dystopian city, which always puts me in a terrible mood. The minute I see the masks everywhere I become anxious. Then had to tell a friend of 20+ years that I can’t see her for the time being because I can’t handle her Covid protocols. She has lupus, so I understand her concerns, but last time I saw her it was outside only (I had a back full of mosquito bites), had to sanitize my hands before petting the dog, could only use “guest” washroom but had to wear a mask and not touch anything (suffice it to say, I did not use the washroom), and then was given a flashlight to use for getting back to the car from the backyard and her husband took it from my “dirty” hand with a Lysol wipe. So no, I won’t be dealing with that again. I won’t be going out much this next week, but do get to see my best friend for the first time in 7 months and will visit my parents. I love my city place so it makes me very angry that I don’t enjoy being here and that the city is such a depressing place now. Hopefully you and I will see a glimmer of hope tomorrow…

89757 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 6, #1002 of 1222 🔗

Wow! Just wow! That is quite some rigamarole.

89767 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to RDawg, 5, #1003 of 1222 🔗

She doesn’t even like that anyone has to enter her house for any reason, but she knew nobody would visit if there was no washroom available! She’s bought an outdoor heater to extend the visiting season, but come late fall she’ll be truly isolated unless she decides to assume a modicum of risk.

89778 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 8, #1004 of 1222 🔗

She has condemned herself and her husband to a living death.
Let them have it.
Being horrified at the ghastliness of our towns and cities is proof that you are human. You are alive. You have kept your soul.

89787 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1005 of 1222 🔗

Don’t ‘be a prisoner of their fear’, get out and about as much as possible, show them you don’t care.

89812 ▶▶▶ Colin, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #1006 of 1222 🔗

As was noticed back in April, Lupus sufferers in Italy just weren’t dying at the same rate as other folks, some heretics ascribe this difference to the medication they take, HCQ. So your pal may have less to fear from Covid than us ordinary mortals.

89749 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to RDawg, 23, #1007 of 1222 🔗

I’ve had a crap day also…got on the bus today (in not so sunny Wales) out of…I guesstimate 25, I am the only unmuzzled one 🙁
On a lighter note, had a horrible experience on Tuesday 11th – posted it – another bus company (not Cardiff Bus who have been great) wouldn’t let me on the bus because I wasn’t wearing a mask……submitted a complaint to there said company – they are taking it very seriously (glad I took the driver’s photo). I did not want to waste police time, but after speaking to friends about how shaken I felt, not wanting to ‘waste police time’ sound stupid’ etc and despite massive reservations – I did report my experience to the police – they were fab. Took it very seriously, the officer I spoke with told me that they can go out and arrest him now (Public Order offence)…I was shocked as to how seriously the officer took it. I don’t wan’t to go down that path, yes, I did feel bullied, intimidated and the rest of it, but nothing I can’t handle, I am earnestly pursuing the complaint with there said bus company and they seem to be taking it very seriously and there has been timely communication. I just hope that their drivers have the actual law explained to them and don’t inflict their bullying on some other soul.

89758 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Kath Andrews, 10, #1008 of 1222 🔗

Good for you! Gotta clamp down on the Covid bullies.

89759 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to RDawg, 8, #1009 of 1222 🔗

Yay! The bloody irony is that, minutes before, I had spoken to a friend who had been really struggling wearing a mask on the bus – he contends with COPD, emphysema and anxiety – he had no idea that he was exempt and I said ‘you can have my exemption card, I’ll bring it in tomorrow’. Then this, I did feel a bit weird ringing the police, had to mull it over for a few days, but they took my complaint very seriously, was shocked. The bus company (have to stress not Cardiff Bus) seem to be taking it very seriously also.

89791 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Kath Andrews, 4, #1010 of 1222 🔗

They are taking the Police very seriously.

89953 ▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Kath Andrews, 3, #1011 of 1222 🔗

Printed out exemption badge yesterday & given it to elderly frail friend who was struggling. Text back last night “wore your badge everywhere including co op and no one minded thank you”. Now her (even older) cousin thinking of getting one. Good thing I’ve got a stack of plastic badge holders. Always knew they’d come in handy!

89955 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #1012 of 1222 🔗

Good. I tried to convince an elderly customer yesterday, who was nervous of having to wear a mask in the supermarket, that she could exempt herself. Her daughter muscled in and said that she would be insisting her mother wore a mask saying “we don’t want this thing finishing you off” The look of alarm on her mother’s face was dispiriting to say the least.

Gave a spare lanyard to one of my Saturday staff who said she’d tried a mask on but it affected her breathing. She was thrilled that she could exempt herself.

Spreading the word, little by little …

90034 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, #1013 of 1222 🔗

I’ve printed out six exemption cards and put them in plastic wallets for relatives and friends over the past two weeks and they are all pleased to have them,it has made shopping much better for them.
I am constantly surprised at how many people are completely unaware of exemptions and continue to suffer behind muzzles.

89768 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Kath Andrews, 5, #1014 of 1222 🔗

Way to fight back!!!! Good for you.

89771 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1015 of 1222 🔗

Thank you! 🙂

89779 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Kath Andrews, 9, #1016 of 1222 🔗

Shocked? Don’t be.
How many of our police are as horrified as we are at this repulsive Fascist bullying, I wonder? Not the Fetida Dickheads, but decent men and women. .Maybe a lot of them would like to strike a blow for the other side.

89901 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 1, #1017 of 1222 🔗

Fetida Dickhead, lol 🙂

89973 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to annie, #1018 of 1222 🔗

The officer I spoke with came across as thoroughly decent – he couldn’t have been more supportive 🙂

89788 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Kath Andrews, 4, #1019 of 1222 🔗

That’s very encouraging, I was expecting the Police not wanting to be involved from either side.
But the driver IS discriminating against your Disability.

90099 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1020 of 1222 🔗

I’ve been becoming very anti-police since the sunbathing nonsense, but on reflection I’m sure there are still plenty of decent officers and Kath’s story supports that..

89900 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #1021 of 1222 🔗

Wow. A little bit of sense.

89769 ▶▶ commononsense, replying to RDawg, 10, #1022 of 1222 🔗

so sorry you are feeling so sad. it is a very strange time we are living in. but look at how many folk are simply carrying on with their lives.. all those families on the beaches, not giving a 2nd thought about the virus. All the people who have gone on holiday to spain and france. If enough of us ignore the stupid laws, that cannot be policed anyway because there aren’t enough police, the government will have to stop making unenforceable laws, and we can all get on with rebuilding the flippin mess that they’ve made. and you never know, some good may come of the lockdown. I’m hoping that butchers, bakers, green grocers etc will return to our high streets and that folk working from home will use the shops in the time they are saving from their commute. I’m hoping that home working will at last mean a more equal distribution of work and wealth around the whole country and not just be foccussed in the South East. and I’m hoping that more small enterprise in craft and manufacture will start up, because folk are gong to have to be really resourceful in the financially constrained years ahead, and it seems that there is a huge willingness to invest time into hand making things right now, and a market for those products. We may even use more local barter systems as actual cash is going to be scarce. I am hopeful for the future, I hope I have helped convey a little hope to you RDawg

89792 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to commononsense, 3, #1023 of 1222 🔗

Sadly homeworking is more likely to be redistributed to the third world rather than around the country.

89906 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to commononsense, 1, #1024 of 1222 🔗

In my very very rare moments of optimism I feel some of these things in the future might actually be a good thing. I have often thought that we do need to change how society works as it was very very broken and harmful to a lot of people in many many ways. However the cruelty, scale, speed, scope and the purely evil nature of the disruption has left me stunned.

I never thought they would do this to us. Not like this. I never thought that they COULD do this to us.

I would be all for a lot of the societal changes if they were not being driven by some of the most evil people on the planet.

89738 nfw, replying to nfw, 11, #1025 of 1222 🔗

How do we get the message across to the great unwashed that increases in “cases” does not mean increases in deaths? Once upon a time it was about “flattening the curve” with regard to deaths. Golly gosh gee that happened so now “the narrative” is about flattening the curve on “cases”. Of course what they’re not telling the Karens and Chads is that a “case” just means “positive” result, not a death.

It’s obvious the more “testing” you do, the more “cases” you are going to find. So what? Let’s try it for TB shall we, especially for all those illegals entering the UK?

89786 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nfw, #1026 of 1222 🔗

Show the Financial Times graphs in yesterday’s LS main page.

89895 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to nfw, 2, #1027 of 1222 🔗

The overwhelming problem we face is that “ I will die from this ” is fixed in the heads of the plebs. ‘Death’, ‘Case’, ‘Infection’, ‘Test’, ‘Spread’ etc all mean the same to them.

89746 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1028 of 1222 🔗

Where are the “at risk” areas of local lockdown measures at the moment?

89761 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #1029 of 1222 🔗

Roll the dice. Does it make any sense otherwise?

89785 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1030 of 1222 🔗

Those with the most power crazed Local Government Officers.

89898 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1032 of 1222 🔗

With all the crying about the beaches here in Bournemouth, I’m surprised that we don’t seem to be on the list. Seems like we should be near the top.

89753 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 5, #1033 of 1222 🔗

I live in Montreal, Quebec, Canada and just a few minutes ago I wondered if there were any skeptical articles written up in Montreal about this BS. I found one.

https://www.iedm.org/the-flawed-covid-19-model-that-locked-down-canada/

They mention a link between Ferguson and the World Health Organization.

89766 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to richard riewer, 4, #1034 of 1222 🔗

Yes, Ferguson is compromised for sure. Everywhere I look, all roads lead to Bill Gates and big pharma. If you’re interested in another organization that is sceptical, to put it mildly, check out Vaccine Choice Canada. I joined after reading the Canada Day note by Ted Kuntz, VCCs president. They, with 7 other co-plaintiffs, have mounted a legal challenge to Covid measures in Ontario Superior Court. I sit in on their weekly Zoom calls and it’s just nice to see and hear from others who are on the same page. Denis Rancourt volunteers his time with them — he’s the scientist who has reviewed all the mask research and has written a few position papers. Lots of great information on the site.

https://vaccinechoicecanada.com/media/press-release-legal-challenge-to-covid-19-measures-filed-in-ontario-superior-court/

89796 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1035 of 1222 🔗

It would be interesting to have some links to Canada’s equivalent of UK’s Parliamentary Committee discussions, SAGE papers etc which led to your country’s decisions? Canadians always seem so level headed, especially by comparison with your big neighbour.

89770 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 20, #1036 of 1222 🔗

The Boris Johnson Tory government has cancelled the lives of millions of people.

89777 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 9, #1037 of 1222 🔗

And they haven’t even noticed.
Must have been pretty feeble lives to start with.

89783 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to richard riewer, 16, #1038 of 1222 🔗

“I have never accepted what many people have kindly said, namely that I have inspired the nation. It was the nation and the race dwelling all around the globe that had the lion heart. I had the luck to be called upon to give the roar.”
Winston Churchill
‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself’ President Roosevelt

And what did Boris Johnson say? ‘oh dear that fierce Nicola Sturgeon (who reminds me of matron at school) was cross with me and so I had to make all the British Holiday Makers in France run for home like a bunch of scaredy cats so they can whimper in their wood sheds then maybe old witless Whitty will be pleased with me for once?’
Pathetic; at a time when we need our Joan of Arc, our Churchill, our Boedicea our Roosevelt, what do we get ??????????? polite words fail me!

89784 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #1039 of 1222 🔗

Majority response to Jeremy Vine (actually Vanessa Phelps) show ‘Escape From France’ phone in.

“Serves them right they should have known greedy selfish going on holiday with country in crisis deserve to be quarantined make sure they are. . .”

89790 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1040 of 1222 🔗

It is weird how this hoo-haa has brought out this strange aspect of some characters where they seem to want to wallow in angst, misery and suffering. It reminds me of a rhyme my late father in law used to say (sarcastically) at such times;
here we sit in grief and pain
over the road they suffer the same
but next door (ha-ha) they suffer more’

89811 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1041 of 1222 🔗

I don’t suppose the high earning presenters made any effort to point out the ridiculousness of that attitude? That a. What crisis? And b. Wtf should you be punished for a holiday?

89844 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark II, 1, #1042 of 1222 🔗

Sounded like Cybil Faulty ‘oh I knoww…’

89892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1043 of 1222 🔗

Did Feltz let them speak at all? The show should be called Vanessa Feltz Talks Over…

89899 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #1044 of 1222 🔗

What do we get? A totally broken, dishevelled, downtrodden, humiliated, exhausted, demoralised physical wreck of a man. A man who has no authority to do anything and a mandate to just obey and repeat what he is told to do and say. Boris has been reduced to the level of a door mat, with everybody wiping their feet on him.

89814 ▶▶ Mark, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1045 of 1222 🔗

Indeed, and they must suffer for it. But never forget that they did it with the enthusiastic support, pushing even, of the Labour and other establishment opposition parties.

Otherwise the anger will be used merely to elect the other half of the dysfunctional, even evil, political establishment again, and nothing will change.

89789 Mr Dee, 6, #1046 of 1222 🔗
89795 WhyNow, 13, #1047 of 1222 🔗

Hans Rosling talks about the human fear instinct. “These fears are hardwired deep in our brains for obvious evolutionary reasons…You can spot stories in the news about them every day”. “physical harm… captivity… contamination: by invisible substances that can infect or poison us”. “Fears that once helped keep our ancestors alive, today help keep journalists employed”. “If we look at the facts behind the headlines, we can see how the fear instinct systematically distorts what we see of the world.”

Covid, in a nutshell.

The broadcasters have always manipulated the news like this. Politicians respond to it, and also try to manipulate it. Why? Because we allow ourselves to be influenced by it. See all those gullible people wearing masks? That’s the electorate.

89799 Barney McGrew, 14, #1048 of 1222 🔗

The mainstream narrative:

Little green men in the form of a ‘novel’ virus have invaded and are intent in taking over our bodies. Without a drastic response, the world will end.

Their evidence? Mainly eye witnesses who saw it on TV happening in an Italian hospital, and a mate who knows someone who knows someone who had it happen to them. Also, someone created an artist’s impression using a computer.

And I suppose the crazy conspiracy theorists have had plenty to say on the matter?

Well, they say that there’s a logical explanation for it all. The little green men are really just an illusion and that actual scientific evidence shows they’re not taking over the world. Completely bonkers, obviously.

89800 JohnB, 23, #1049 of 1222 🔗

Just seen a headline which shows what a farce this supposed virus is:

A 54-year-old German woman has been fined $12,745 for breaching a court order by going shopping, taking a taxi and going for a walk in the park after testing positive for the virus.

This is a strange killer virus which we keep being told is so potent but doesn’t even affect the host so badly that they can go about their normal daily life and even exercise.

If you get the common cold a lot of the time you’re bed ridden, and can’t carry out normal tasks and exercise, but with the miracle COVID-19 everyone just continues as normal.

89802 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 30, #1050 of 1222 🔗

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “ Repeal the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English shops. ”.

Government responded:

People must play their part to reduce the spread of the virus. Wearing a face covering helps this, giving people the confidence to return to shops safely, and better protects those who work in retail.

The government is telling the public to play their part and wear face coverings in order to help fight the spread of the virus, enabling further easing of national restrictions.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) usually spreads by droplets from coughs, sneezes and speaking. These droplets can also be picked up from surfaces, if you touch a surface and then your face without washing your hands first. This is why social distancing, regular hand hygiene, and covering coughs and sneezes is so important in controlling the spread of the virus. There is evidence to suggest that, when used correctly, face coverings may reduce the likelihood of someone with the infection passing it on to others, particularly if they are asymptomatic. Because face coverings are mainly intended to protect others, not the wearer, from coronavirus (COVID-19) they are not a replacement for social distancing and regular hand washing.

Since 11 May, the Government has been advising people to wear face coverings in enclosed indoor spaces, where they cannot easily social distance, and where they come into contact with people they do not normally meet.

The wearing of face coverings has been required on public transport since 15 June.

In recent weeks, some lockdown restrictions have been eased and the retail sector has reopened. As footfall increases, we want to give people more confidence to shop safely, and enhance protections for those who work in shops. The British Retail Consortium has said that together with other social distancing measures, face coverings can make shoppers feel even more confident about returning to the high street.

The Government has published guidance online which sets out when the public need to wear one and how they can make their own. There are exemptions for those who are unable to wear a face covering due to age, health, disability, and other reasons. There has been an ongoing assessment as to the impacts of the Government’s policy, including on groups with protected characteristics, that has informed decision making.

The Government is running a proactive communications campaign on face coverings to alert the public where they are now required to wear a face covering, who is exempt from wearing one, and how to wear one correctly. We are actively engaging with stakeholders including disability charities to communicate new guidance to their members as well as highlighting this message to the general public on social media and via broadcasting opportunities.

On 31 July the Prime Minister announced that the face covering regulations will be extended to cover further indoor settings such as places of worship from 8 August.

We will keep advice on the use of face coverings under review, in line with the latest scientific evidence.

Department of Health and Social Care

Is anybody able to go through this with a fine-toothed comb and counter these official statements with facts and figures that prove them incorrect? I will eventually, but it’ll have to wait a week or so. There is a lot here that is stated as fact, but is actually not evidence based. Throughout the statement, no fully-referenced evidence is given to back-up the claims. Why not? Surely this would be an easy thing to do?

The sheer arrogance that I am expected to take their claims at face value is infuriating. Do they think I’m so stupid that I’ll read this and then say to myself: “Oh! Well I’m convinced. Silly me! I’ll strap this facial strait-jacket round my gob and shut up about everything. Good thing the government can do the thinking for me!”

89806 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #1051 of 1222 🔗

As Carl Heneghan has said, why was there not the expected 40% drop in infections after 2 weeks of mask wearing.

https://youtu.be/QNI2ocgosgA

89905 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark B, 2, #1052 of 1222 🔗

Don’t worry, there will be by next weekend, 2 weeks after masking in all indoor public places. And if not, it must mean we need to wear them outdoors…

89907 ▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1053 of 1222 🔗

And at home

90128 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to 6097 Smith W, #1054 of 1222 🔗

NEVER!!!!!!!!

89808 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mr Dee, 33, #1055 of 1222 🔗

There is no hint whatsoever of “We regret that it is necessary to impose such a drastic, dehumanising requirement on society. We appreciate that everyone will suffer some inconvenience, unpleasantness and potential illness as a result. Some people will suffer disproportionately due to health issues and disabilities and may not be able to wear a face covering; we regret the impression that we have given that it is the public’s duty to “shame” these people, with the unjust, potentially violent consequences that will follow for some of the most vulnerable people in society. We regret that the face covering is, conveniently, a de facto badge of compliance and that wearing it implies that the wearer supports the government and its policies. We regret that we have not put a time limit on the requirement, nor specified any criteria regarding when it can be lifted. We regret that the prime minister once actually used the words “ breathing God’s fresh air like any other freeborn Englishman” and was elected partly because of this impression of respecting individual freedom. We regret that he has, in fact, deferred all power to unelected petty officials and ‘scientists’ with their own political agendas.”

89886 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #1056 of 1222 🔗

Their answer to petitions that ask them to stop something is always “Yeah, we’re not going to do that”. When they debate them, the result is always “We’ve talked about it – still not going to do it.” It’s that simple.

89809 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Mr Dee, 37, #1057 of 1222 🔗

Confidence to enter shops? They must be joking. An item associated with criminality especially in a retail and banking context, I find the whole sea of covered faces so disturbing I have not been inside a shop for three weeks, what about my confidence? It’s a replacement for actual leadership and an attempt to avoid what we all know, this has been a gigantic disaster.

89909 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to tonys, 1, #1058 of 1222 🔗

the footfall and spending figures must back you up otherwise they would be headline news

89810 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #1059 of 1222 🔗

So your reply is basically the timeline of when and where compulsory masks were introduced and the usual vague ‘there is some evidence they may work’. Reminds me of a typical standard email response when you email a company that completely fails to address any of the points in your message. 🤦‍♂️

89838 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to dpj, 3, #1060 of 1222 🔗

Probably hoping you would get bored so not read it all to the end.

89813 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #1061 of 1222 🔗

You beat me to it Mr Dee!

Bad enough having the politicians lie to us, but for the bureucrats who write this stuff to lie as well…

A big reset coming, just not the one they’re hoping for.

89828 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #1062 of 1222 🔗

The politicians’ lies are written for them by the bureaucrats.

‘A politician is the devil’s quilted anvil;
He fashions all sins on him, and the blows
Are never heard: …’

(Thanks to Wetherspoon News for improving my education late in life)

89815 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Mr Dee, 17, #1063 of 1222 🔗

I was about to post the same thing myself as the email above arrived this morning.

”In recent weeks, some lockdown restrictions have been eased and the retail sector has reopened. As footfall increases, we want to give people more confidence to shop safely and enhance protections for those who work in shops. The British Retail Consortium has said that together with other social distancing measures, face coverings can make shoppers feel even more confident about returning to the high street”

Five points:

  1. The BRC seem to have slit their own wrists. Any news on footfall this week?
  2. Is there any traction to be gained by us all writing to the BRC to explain that their idea of masks making us feel even more confident is akin to having to wear a bullet proof vest to go shopping?
  3. If this is about enhancing protection for those who work in shops, why are masks a rarity for staff in those shops which I have visited? Don’t staff “want” to be protected?
  4. ”There is evidence to suggest WHEN USED CORRECTLY ( my emphasis) face coverings may reduce the likelihood of someone with the infection passing it on to others, particularly if they are asymptomatic”. Where is that evidence though in the form of RCTs and has asymptomatic transfer finally been proved beyond doubt?
  5. ”There are exemptions for those unable to wear a face covering due to age, health, disability and other reasons. What are these “other reasons” they talk about. How will people know if they fall under the category of “other reasons”?

Glad to read that they are communicating with stakeholders and disability charities though. Let’s hope that the message gets through to more and more people so that face mask wearing becomes the exception rather than the rule.

89850 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Margaret, 8, #1064 of 1222 🔗

If a person is asymptomatic then can’t have CoViD19 (disease) although they could be infected with SARS-COV-2 (virus).
From a medical point of view no symptoms = no disease.
A diagnosis of infection by herpes zoster is based on fever plus blister like rash, Chicken Pox, you don’t test for herpes zoster.
A diagnosis of poliomyelitis is based on symptoms not a test for the virus.
Actually it’s a good job that the Victorians couldn’t test for the polio virus, otherwise we’d still be in lockdown instigated by Benjamin Disraeli or Robert Peel, as polio was endemic!

90025 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to p02099003, #1065 of 1222 🔗

You may nevertheless be shedding the virus, even if you have no symptoms. As did care workers in care homes.

90144 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, #1066 of 1222 🔗

So let’s do the job properly and stop sending care workers into care home shall we?

89817 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #1067 of 1222 🔗

The repeated phrase ‘people must play their part’ speaks volumes about the motivation here. We must all be visibly implicated, made visibly complicit, in the catastrophic decision to kill 200,000 (by the government’s own estimation), trash basic civil liberty, and tank the economy for precisely no benefit of any kind. By forcing public visible participation and apparent support, this horrendous clusterf**k is transfigured into a unifying national effort under the guidance of our new Churchill. And of course, we are invited to unite against those who will not ‘play their part’ (rather than against those who chose this catastrophe ). In other words, it’s Johnson in his hole, digging.

89818 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, 18, #1068 of 1222 🔗

“Is anybody able to go through this with a fine-toothed comb and counter these official statements with facts and figures that prove them incorrect?”

I doubt it, for the simple reason that there are few facts in their argument, if any at all.

They say that “There is evidence to suggest that, when used correctly, face coverings may reduce the likelihood of someone with the infection passing it on to others, particularly if they are asymptomatic”
This is true. There is evidence to suggest this. There is also evidence to suggest that it is complete bunkum and plenty of evidence to suggest that nobody actually uses them “correctly” outside a hospital ward or an operating theatre. They can fall back on the fact that the WHO now recommends the use of face covering, where they didn’t before – and we can point out that it looks likely that they changed their advice because of political pressure.

They say “The British Retail Consortium has said that together with other social distancing measures, face coverings can make shoppers feel even more confident about returning to the high street.” This is true, they have said this. On balance, it seems unlikely to me (and to many here) that facemasks can do anything except make the experience of shopping consciously weird and put many people off shopping, but I suspect there are indeed also some people for whom the fear factor is reduced if people around them are wearing masks. I suppose the question would be – where does the balance lie? Are more people put off going to the shops because of the mask mandate than are encouraged to shop? There are no numbers available to check this, I don’t think and the numbers that are available can be argued either way. From the limited numbers I’ve seen, footfall has indeed increased since the mandate came in, but slightly and still nowhere near same time last year. Would it have increased more if masks weren’t mandated? Who knows?

I think that the whole thing illustrates the problem with petitions as a mechanism. You don’t get airtime and you don’t get a chance to debate. You can set up a petition with a snappy title, but the title says “the government should do x”. The government then has a chance to reply by saying “we don’t want to do x because…” and there’s no right to respond or to rebut their arguments.

The argument against mandatory masks relies on the idea that there should be a very high bar of proof for a democratic government to mandate anything at all (the philosophical argument against lockdown is exactly the same). The response to the petition ignores that argument and simply says “our job is to defeat the covids, it’s possible masks might help and anyway they might make the bedwetters happier to spend money, therefore masks. And here’s a side helping of collective responsibility to try to make you feel ashamed for no wearing a mask.” It’s a facile argument because they’re not engaging with the debate, just like with everything else.

89825 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 25, #1069 of 1222 🔗

And I’m kicking myself for not realizing this earlier, but it’s just occurred to me that masks are in fact just another dead cat. Our fundamental issue here is that the lockdown measures – in sum or individually – are disproportionate and totalitarian and that a democratic government has no right to enact these catastrophic impositions.

The government comes along and says “mandatory masks” and we’re so appalled by this _specific_ imposition that we (and the few louder voices in the media) spend most of our time complaining about the mask mandate. This allows us to be painted as “anti-mask protestors” and so we can be easily dismissed as selfish people who are complaining about a minor inconvenience that “might save lives”. For us (and for e.g. Simon Dolan and Peter Hitchens) masks are just the latest in a string of humiliations, but we’re all of us busier complaining about them than anything else. Clever. Sumption actually clocked this – he’s refused to engage in the mask debate, because he spotted it for the distraction that it is.

89840 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, 6, #1070 of 1222 🔗

So mandatory that any half arsed excuse exempts you from it.

89853 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to karenovirus, 9, #1071 of 1222 🔗

Well, exactly. I’ve said several times before that the exemptions drafting and process just proves the government don’t really care whether or not we wear masks. Annoyingly, I hadn’t previously clocked why. The apparently arbitrary timing and nature of the mandate wasn’t at all arbitrary – it’s supposed to be senseless because it means that those opposed to the lockdown burn energy and column inches concentrating on it.

89866 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to matt, 7, #1072 of 1222 🔗

karenovirus and Matt. You’ve both hit the nail on the head. I’ve likened it to a magician’s distraction techniques.
Every time I engage with someone about face masks, I stress that the government really don’t want everyone in masks otherwise they would demand medical exemption certificates as they do in Spain.

89893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Margaret, 3, #1073 of 1222 🔗

I don’t disagree but they would have to open GP surgeries for people to get medical exemption certificates.

89919 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #1074 of 1222 🔗

While I’m here Doc would you mind looking at my gastric ulcer? (not).

89908 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 3, #1075 of 1222 🔗

Well I think they do care, but they don’t want to fall foul of anti-discrimination laws because this would alienate a lot of people who otherwise support masks, and it’s much easier to leave it loose and get shops and peer pressure and propaganda to enforce it.

I don’t think there’s anything too wrong with focusing on this as a very visible symbol of the wider problem, and I don’t think many/any of those campaigning against masks think that if we win that victory then it’s over.

It’s one step on a long road.

I hate shopping but I would like one day to go back into a shop, so I’d take relaxing this restriction as a start.

89916 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to matt, 1, #1076 of 1222 🔗

I guess I am not alone but I am exempt for at least four of the listed reasons and have no hesitation in using them. There are loads of people out there, especially asthmatics, who are in a far worse situation than me yet they all insist on putting on the silly masks even though they hate them.

90153 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to davews, #1077 of 1222 🔗

More fool them!

89917 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, 1, #1078 of 1222 🔗

I’ve always thought it was to get us fighting in aisles about who is and who isn’t exempt. Ain’t happening.

90031 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to matt, #1079 of 1222 🔗

Better late than never.

90029 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to matt, #1080 of 1222 🔗

Maybe not a dead cat, they bounce. Ooh look, a squirrel, rather.

90150 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #1081 of 1222 🔗

Most of the policies have been dead cat distractions.

89843 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to matt, 1, #1082 of 1222 🔗

“From the limited numbers I’ve seen, footfall has indeed increased since the mandate came in, but slightly and still nowhere near same time last year. Would it have increased more if masks weren’t mandated? Who knows?”

Are we able to compare footfall rates over the same period between the same shops (e.g. WH Smiths/Waterstones/Currys etc) in England, where masks have been made mandatory, and in Wales, where they are not? Where do we get these figures from?

89849 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #1083 of 1222 🔗

I don’t believe so, no. That would require individual chains to be publishing their own footfall data, which I don’t think they do (except, perhaps in their annual reports).

It’s a fool’s game in any case, in my opinion. Short of a very large scale attitudes survey that produces completely objective data (impossible or at least hugely unlikely) analyzing footfall data doesn’t help. Footfall down? People are still scared. Answer: more masks. Or people are facing significant economic uncertainty “caused by the virus” and so they don’t want to spend money. Answer: still masks plus look what a good job Rishi is doing with the economy.

Apart from carrying on going maskless, I think we need to start completely ignoring this detail of the debate and get back to the big picture. As I said below, it’s a distraction and while we concentrate on it, the government wins the bigger argument.

89857 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to matt, 7, #1084 of 1222 🔗

If the individual chains are collecting their own data and it supports the conclusion that masks are damaging their income (the ability to compare England and Wales could be useful here) then they may make representations to government or publicise the fact. That would be helpful.

For me, masks aren’t just a distraction. My wife is partially deaf and masks cut her off from society.

89868 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Andrew Fish, 10, #1085 of 1222 🔗

I think that the problem the large chains have here is that 1) the masks issue is intimately tied up with virtue signalling and politics. Putting on the mask and criticising those who won’t have become acts of faith among a large chunk of people. The chains won’t want to be seen to be going against this for fear of PR implications and 2) they most likely also don’t know for sure what is actually causing the changes in footfall numbers, so won’t want to lobby one way or another unless or until they do.

And I completely understand your point about masks being a real problem in certain circumstances (for your wife, for example). I’m not saying that they aren’t on their own a real problem and I personally resent the hell out of them. I’m only saying that we need to bring the LS narrative back to “lockdown bad, including masks” as opposed to “masks bad, and by the way lockdown”.

89897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Andrew Fish, 5, #1086 of 1222 🔗

Masks cut everyone off from society.

89948 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to matt, 1, #1087 of 1222 🔗

So if we get back to the big picture what should we do? What steps should we be taking?

89854 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to matt, 3, #1088 of 1222 🔗

As there is evidence that even in an operating theatre the wearing of masks does little to maintain the sterility of the operation, and It was even suggested that the wearing of masks in the OR be stopped. There’s a certain kudos associated with the wearing of surgical garb.

90008 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to matt, 3, #1089 of 1222 🔗

It is equally possible that the spread of coronavirus may be limited by standing on your head and breathing through a straw while licking dog dirt. There’s no evidence to the contrary …Tomorrow’s news today?

89823 ▶▶ Alan Billingsley, replying to Mr Dee, 10, #1090 of 1222 🔗

Why are shops still mainly empty and pubs and restaurants full? – clue – masks!

89833 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Alan Billingsley, 7, #1091 of 1222 🔗

And people do not look scared in the pubs and restaurants!

89841 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steeve, 5, #1092 of 1222 🔗

The people who are not scared go to pubs and restaurants.

89873 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1093 of 1222 🔗

My observation is people do not look scared going into shops either! My estimation was about 85% did not wear masks before mandated! My conclusion is that most people wear them for an easier shopping experience with the bonus you might also save a life! It’s all very subtle and that is the scary bit!

89842 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Alan Billingsley, 2, #1094 of 1222 🔗

This may help us – if, after the eat out to help out scheme ends, it remains the case that restaurant sales look like they’re recovering and retail sales aren’t, the penny may drop with some of the brighter MPs (there must be some). I know of at least one restaurant which is going to use the eat out to help out thing later in the year at their own expense – November is their quietest month and the impact of the scheme has been so pronounced they think it will give them a bit of a boost.

89883 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Andrew Fish, #1095 of 1222 🔗

Morrisons are doing it seven days a week through August.

89837 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1096 of 1222 🔗

Thanks for posting this mr dee, I was going to do the same thing and ask the same questions once I got my computer on (currently on phone). No supporting evidence is provided, indeed evidence shows that footfall has decreased since masks were introduced. The reply is just more lies and spin.

89879 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #1097 of 1222 🔗

The sheer arrogance that I am expected to take their claims at face value is infuriating. Do they think I’m so stupid that I’ll read this and then say to myself: “Oh! Well I’m convinced…

Yes, Mr. Dee, they do think you are that stupid. Of course, you are not, but sadly, very, very many are. That’s how they get away with this.

89904 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #1098 of 1222 🔗

The phrase “play your part” makes me want to scream. Straight out of the SPI-B How To Nudge instruction book.

89912 ▶▶ davews, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1099 of 1222 🔗

Well that reply was more or less exactly what we expected. Just regurgitation of all the stuff we know already. What a waste of time all these petitions are.

89939 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1100 of 1222 🔗

Interesting how much emphasis is given to shopping. Wearing mask is perceived as aiding an increase in footfall. Personally I see it as an aid to maintaining paranoia. We’ll be seeing shortly how that aids the re-opening of schools.

89819 Albie, replying to Albie, 21, #1101 of 1222 🔗

I wish a law could be passed that prevented the worldwide media from reporting increased positive tests in anything other than % increase terms. Of course there will be an increase in positive results if the number of people being tested is also increased. 6 months ago I’d never have guessed I’d be explaining basic mathematics to people in my life I assumed were intelligent. Propaganda is detrimental to intelligence, clearly.

89834 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Albie, 4, #1102 of 1222 🔗

I had to explain to a senior BT technician the significance of the 2 FT charts (cases v deaths) on Toby’s main page yesterday.

89869 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Albie, 2, #1103 of 1222 🔗

I have numlexia and even I can do the maths

89822 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 25, #1104 of 1222 🔗

Eight fifteen on a Saturday morning and already a number of us have posted or ‘liked’ posts. You are obviously just like me-Lockdown Sceptics is the first thing I reach for when having my morning cuppa.

89831 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Margaret, 4, #1105 of 1222 🔗

Its the clarity of thought I am impressed with!

89836 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Margaret, 13, #1106 of 1222 🔗

It’s an addiction…

No seriously, the world is going full-on clown planet on us (I love that phrase – thank you Carl Vernon), and so everyone here is keeping everyone else here sane.

89864 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Margaret, 13, #1107 of 1222 🔗

I an addicted to this blog and the comments. The only show in town. I just keep hanging in here for ANY good news.

89827 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #1108 of 1222 🔗

A true humdinger of an article here.

Parliament Appears To Have Deposed QEII of Sovereignty

https://www.thebernician.net/parliament-appears-to-have-deposed-qeii-of-sovereignty/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

“[…] more facts would have to come to light before I could even broach the subject of a treasonous Parliament, I decided to carry on researching the matter, until the events of COVID-1984 revealed that Parliament was acting with what the constitution deems to be prohibited royal powers.

“From which juncture is has become increasingly obvious that the UK government has ever since purported to exercise national sovereignty in the interests of Bill Gates, GAVI and the WHO, as per the sustainable development agendas 21 and 30.

“This was enough to convince me that I’d seen enough to reasonably conclude that Parliament had created unaccountable government, upon its assumption that such an act could be deemed lawful, on the ground that it has declared itself sovereign in a statute.
[…]
“It is therefore simply not arguable that changing the nation state of Britain from a Parliamentary democracy, with a monarch bound to uphold the Common Law, to a totalitarian, unaccountable dictatorship, does not comprise the most serious constitutional changes imaginable.”

89880 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 1, #1109 of 1222 🔗

Said the same in my letter of last week – she’s been usurped.

No surprise, not one reply the than auto-replies from anyone about it.

89913 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1110 of 1222 🔗

It has been recognised for what it is. By yourself and others. This is at least something to start.

The vast majority, myself included, could not begin to see the breaches of constitution – too complex without lessons or a lifetime of experience. As mhcp writes, none of this is taught to us The People – to my mind a purposeful omission. The core of our freedoms undiscussed by all under 18 at least.

There appears lawful ground to overthrow the government. Interesting point about all those services that swore an oath to the Queen.

89891 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Basics, 6, #1111 of 1222 🔗

It’s funny. From the side of the fence (Catholic) were I’m from in Northern Ireland, schools don’t really teach the ins and outs of William of Orange’s reign. They don’t do the Battle of the Boyne, which is odd as there are nuances. One of which is the Bill of Rights.

It was only later when at university that you start to read up on these things.

The statement about “parliament being sovereign” I suspect was added because of the EU definition. But as he points out it can’t be without overturning centuries of Common Law.

Which is also why the rule by diktat (SI) is so worrying.

With a nod to Northern Ireland again, the whole place was ruled by Emergency Powers for many years, powers that ignore parts of the Constitution including Habeus Corpus.

I never thought I’d see them nationwide

89830 Albie, replying to Albie, 23, #1112 of 1222 🔗

One tactic that seems to work in getting the brainwashed to open their minds is just casually chatting one on one. But don’t appear too earnest or go down the conspiracy theory route or they will switch off. Point out how terrible it is that cancer patients had treatment delayed, how heart attack deaths increased due to people fearing overwhelming the NHS. If you you have a mobile phone handy show a basic graph of how French deaths have not increased at all, as I did yesterday to someone who told me they had shot up. I acted dumb, instead of saying “they really haven’t you know!”, and found the graph showing they were negligible. ” oh look, they were high in April but look now, hardly registering as a line”. Calmly does it, act a bit dumb, then conveniently find supporting evidence, of which there is an abundance.

89832 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Albie, 8, #1113 of 1222 🔗

Excellent advice.

89856 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Albie, 6, #1114 of 1222 🔗

This. The sceptical R rate seems to increase far more effectively in the real world, face to face, than it does online, especially social media. I’ve also noticed how quickly some people are folding in the face of peer pressure. Once they see friends acting normally, they very quickly forget the Rona rules.

89884 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Albie, 5, #1115 of 1222 🔗

I tell them that we’re being taken over by unknown forces and we’re all gonna be starved to death because that is gonna be better than the coming climate change disaster. I then say all these years you’ve been telling me about climate change and not realised that while you say you believe it you’ve ignored it but since you believe it it must mean shit’s gonna get bad real soon. How soon is now for you? It’s gonna be Biblical. Nothing but the complete destruction of society. So wearing the mask to me is about as much use as them signs outside churches these days that say “Try Praying”. Can’t wait really.

89835 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #1116 of 1222 🔗

And the flock was shepherded safely home from France by the faithful Collie, ‘Wee Nippy’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1nHNtZ148I

89871 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #1117 of 1222 🔗

Bad lad.

89839 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1118 of 1222 🔗

New Zealand thought police interrogating social media users about their posts.

A short 2 minute video of NZ police going to the address of a man who’s social media comments are critical of the government. Free speech?

He was very wise to say he doesn’t ‘understand’.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FinallyFreeUSA/status/1229442440110780420

89862 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 2, #1119 of 1222 🔗

Rozzer was on the back foot though. He felt far from comfortable.

89865 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1120 of 1222 🔗

I felt the cops life had not turned out so well as he had hoped – all that struggle and career to take him to that doorstep to carry on like that. The cop needs to take a look at his life and work out where it went so wrong. Good news is he can take choices to turn his life around.

89951 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Basics, 1, #1121 of 1222 🔗

That happens here, people have lost their jobs for stating facts.

89845 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 5, #1122 of 1222 🔗

Here’s interesting, had to tell (other than by Piers C apparent involvement) if it’s The Left or The Right behind it…which in itself is fascinating to Ethelred, who has long considered that Left and Right form a circle and finally meet somewhere around the back…

https://www.rt.com/uk/498075-standupx-anti-mask-covid/

89851 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #1123 of 1222 🔗

Figured out that circle thing when looking at facism v communism, History teacher went with it, General Studies not so (think he was from a polytechnic).

89860 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1124 of 1222 🔗

My old GS teacher used to say that Fascists shot you from hate and the Communists shot you for love, but the end result is still a dead body.

89887 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #1125 of 1222 🔗

This is why Camus talks of needing an “endless watch on ourselves” lest we turn into monsters. You only have to look at your old mates advocating for the army on the streets and enforced vaccinations to see how normal people can turn. Think he called it revolution with limits (or similar)

89950 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1126 of 1222 🔗

The only thing positive coming out if this is, that more people in the countries who sofar felt that their folk would always be immune to falling for totalitarianism are now recognizing that they are just as susceptible.
In turn, the average people who did fall for this in the past, from Italy/Germany&co via Iraq/Iran&co to Russia/China&co, must and will from now on be seen in a different, more neutral, light by the, more enlightened people and less biased historians, in those
countries.

90094 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #1127 of 1222 🔗

Totalitarianism is like any form of extremism. It doesn’t matter at that point which way your ideals lean because the end result is pretty much the same, especially for the man on the street.

89855 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #1128 of 1222 🔗

Two cheeks of the same backside

89847 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 17, #1129 of 1222 🔗

The government of this country gives every appearance of having been taken over in a bloodless coup.

The Prime Minister wanders around, irrelevant, shell shocked, contradicting himself with every second utterance, as though someone is controlling him, feeding him the party line after he makes a series of feeble little rebellions.

Government policies bear no resemblance to the manifesto that the electorate voted for, far more resemblance to the manifesto of the defeated far left party.

The absurd domestic covid by numbers game must emanate from the joint biosecurity centre (JBC) led by a statistician and epidemiologist…..with a PhD on Bayesian methods for identifying outliers.

But the JBC is controlled by Baroness Harding, granddaughter of Field Marshal Sir John Harding, who, you will all recall, together with Field Marshal Sir Gerald Templer, brilliantly won a war in Malaya (P.M. Churchill).

Overseas, the key foreign policy matter, Brexit, is being managed by the individual recently promoted to head up the National Security Council.

Three powerful characters in the three key positions responsible for this country’s covid 19 policy, orchestrated in the interests of our ongoing ‘cold’ war with Europe; ‘realpolitik’

No wonder the PM looks shell shocked. Hopelessly outgunned, he has lost control.

But the winning of wars requires good intelligence, ‘the other side of the hill’

Until these outstandingly competent individuals start working with good data rather than the nonsense that they get from the vested interests of Public Health England, Bayesian methods will be of no use to them, and the victory they seek more expensive than even King Pyrrhus could afford.

Masking, a product of hilariously incompetent behavioural science dogma, if they continue to follow it, will first make them a laughing stock and then ensure electoral disaster.

Is that coffee I smell on the morning air?

‘“Rise like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number
Shake your chains to earth like dew
We are many, they are few”

Percy Bysshe Shelley The Masque of Anarchy

89874 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #1130 of 1222 🔗

Looks like Sage is a Cabal, re the vaccine and the other is sustainability, Agenda 21/30. Also the level playing field of the world currencies.

89876 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1131 of 1222 🔗

The same Baroness Harding who presided over the Talk Talk data breach … Inspires confidence, not!

89937 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 2, #1132 of 1222 🔗

We got hounded by scam callers after that, for quite some time. The call screening thing they finally brought in stopped it dead, but it shouldn’t have happened at all, of course. Call screening might be especially useful just now, though 🙂

89942 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1133 of 1222 🔗

My sympathies. We get them at work all the time (despite paying for call screening).

Yes, as was discussed on yesterday’s page, jobs for the boys (or girls in this case). The more useless you are at your job the higher the likelihood of getting a better gig somewhere else!

89959 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 2, #1134 of 1222 🔗

Oh yes, promoted out of harm’s way, the old story. As I said, the Talk Talk call screening has stopped ’em dead, comes with the landline package. I think BT have the same system, too. Maybe worth a look?

89972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, #1135 of 1222 🔗

Ta.

89963 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, #1136 of 1222 🔗

Government policies bear no resemblance to the manifesto that the electorate voted for, far more resemblance to the manifesto of the defeated far left party.”

I love the way that this coup by the egregious far right is excused by casting the Tory Party’s elected lying narcissus as a helpless victim of an imagined communist plot.

You’ve got to laugh.

89980 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1137 of 1222 🔗

LOL! It’s that fantasy “far right” again.

The knee taking, NHS worshipping, communist employing, big government, union kowtowing, immigration loving, political correctness enforcing “far right”. The wokest fascisti in history.

89982 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 2, #1138 of 1222 🔗

Here’s the thing, Rick.

I couldn’t disagree with you that the party in power in this country is at least nominally “of the right” as they are the Conservative Party. I agree with you that the electorate ought to have seen through Johnson for the weak-willed narcissist that he is (I absolve myself of no blame here. I didn’t vote for him, but only through happenstance because I was on the other side of the Atlantic on Election Day and the trip couldn’t be delayed and was organised at too short notice to arrange a postal ballot).

But

For your point to hold that this is a far right coup, you would need to show that anything that the government have done can be characterized as “far right” and preferably that the responses of the other, leftist governments of the world have been better. Preferably also that Corbyn would have handled the situation differently, but I acknowledge that a counter factual is impossible to prove.

That totalitarianism and the dictatorial impulse are completely neutral in terms of the left/right political spectrum ought to be a given. Yes, there have been totalitarian fascist/far right governments in our recent history (Hitler, Franco… etc) but there have also been totalitarian communist/far left governments (Stalin, Pol Pot… etc) and in fact, you could make the case that before this current debacle the _only_ totalitarian states in the world (eg China, N. Korea, Argentina) were “of the left”, though Myanmar is an awkward fly in that ointment. There are no sins that the right has perpetrated over the years that the left can’t also be accused of.

From my perspective – and I would be interested to hear yours if you disagree – the worst parts of the government actions that aren’t purely totalitarian in their nature have been more closely leftist than rightist. They have nationalised the payroll of the country. They have sought to subsidise entire sectors of the economy. They have completely abandoned fiscal conservatism. They have imposed state control on our lives in the service of a state entity based on a Stalinist funding model. I fail to see any “far right” policies – unless you can argue that draconian rule by diktat is purely a rightist agenda.

And in terms of the other governments, if we look around we see at least as many leftists indulging in the hysterical imposition of ever-increasing powers as we do rightists. The Blue States are more extreme than the Red, broadly speaking. Look at New Zealand. Look at the political affiliations of the Victoria state government and so on. Or China.

You could argue that none of these are truly left wing, but I don’t see how you can do that and argue at the same time that the British Conservatives are truly right wing. Or at least, I don’t see how you could do it and still keep a straight face.

90004 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 1, #1139 of 1222 🔗

Apologies – momentary brain fart. Venezuela, not Argentina.

90157 ▶▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to matt, #1140 of 1222 🔗

One of the reasons I divorced myself from the ‘left’ recently was because of that very clear tendency towards authoritarianism and totalitarianism. I divorced myself before in the Blair years and re-married in the Corbyn regrouping. I have witnessed Corbyn in action at a constituency level and I don’t believe in the slightest that he has those authoritarian instincts, unfortunately a lot of his lieutenants do/did and there are/were still enough Blairites drinking from the trough who have that authoritarianism tendency. Burnham in Manchester being a prime example. If the ‘left’ doesn’t stand for liberty then it can take a hike as far as I’m concerned.

89852 2 pence, 3, #1141 of 1222 🔗

Friday Night Live on Nevsky in St Petersburg, Russia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwylhQdvM80

89858 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1142 of 1222 🔗

A month or so ago there was a local announcement about a series of drive live music gigs would happen at the show ground. Shortly after this was cancelled apparently due to social distancing issues the press recorded. At the time it felt social distancing was an excuse for poor ticket sales, these were international bands. Today the poor ticket sales appear to have been confirmed.

Today the press are reporting Edinburgh Zoo are now showing drive in movies with the unque usp that you can get fast food delivered to your car. All socially distanced of course. The thing that jumps out at me is how very very small the Zoo’s tv set is, perched on a fence along way away.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/gallery/sneak-peek-new-drive-cinema-18769722

90073 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1143 of 1222 🔗

bring your own binoculars!

89870 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 4, #1144 of 1222 🔗

Apologies for mentioning this if it has already been noted.

Yesterday, I was speaking to a customer who was thrilled to be part of an ONS survey. It started off every week but is now every month, whereupon he and his wife provide swabs and blood samples. They get paid £50 each for the blood samples alone (didn’t manage to find out what sums are involved for the swabs). He was absoutely delighted to be raking in such sums. My first thought was that I would be concerned about the quid pro quo aspect of this arrangement.

89888 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to kh1485, 3, #1145 of 1222 🔗

An ONS survey? oh. I know people in there; wonder if I can find out anything.

89911 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 1, #1146 of 1222 🔗

A nurse told me of being volunteered into a “survived the Covid immunity test”.
This means two visits to another hospital 40 miles away in her own time and they won’t even pay the train fare.

89928 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to smileymiley, 1, #1148 of 1222 🔗

Thanks. I’m obviously very naive, I didn’t think they’d be bribing people with yet more taxpayer dosh. Still, good way to collect DNA!

89936 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 3, #1149 of 1222 🔗

Yes, you are also paying for every A level appeal going. Williamson has decreed that his problem is to be paid for by you.

89944 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Basics, 3, #1150 of 1222 🔗

It was ever thus. They cock-up, we pay …

89889 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1151 of 1222 🔗

30 odd years ago Prince Philip said: “In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving overpopulation.”

Remarks when speaking to when speaking to German news agency Deutsche Press Agentur.

What a vicious bastard. Just something to keep in mind as his ‘face’ is being spread about today to virtue signal VJ day. Here’s more of his face they don’t spread about so much (red circle).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167585/amp/Philip-Nazi-funeral-day-sister-lunch-Hitler-TV-documentary-reopens-painful-chapter-duke-s-family-past.html

89894 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Basics, 8, #1152 of 1222 🔗

If he was so concerned about overpopulation, perhaps he should have set an example …

89903 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to kh1485, 6, #1153 of 1222 🔗

I believe that the royals live for 800 years. They’re some kind human hybrid from ancient times. They then take their DNA when they’re near the end and make themselves again in a nice young fit girl. Not a lot of people know this but when William becomes King he’ll be know as King Arthur that’s why his mother is buried in a lake, she’ the lady (Diana) in the lake. William was Lord Mountbatten. Mountbatten who no doubt was Henry the 8th or someone like that who was King Arthur in the beginning. It was around the 6th century that the whole total destruction of society last occurred. There seems to be some kind of reset that happens every now and then. Maybe this is it now.

89935 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Biker, 1, #1154 of 1222 🔗

Plausible.

89902 Julian, replying to Julian, 7, #1155 of 1222 🔗

Some early morning arithmetic:

This lot, from KCL: https://covid.joinzoe.com/ have an app that they claim 4m+ people use daily to report symptoms.

They combine this with data I think from ONS/PHE/etc (actual tests, other data) to estimate UK wide figures

Let’s assume it is vaguely accurate

Their current estimate (revised weekly) of new daily SYMPTOMATIC infections is 1,434, and their current estimate of numbers of people who have it now who are SYMPTOMATIC is 22,198.

So if we take the daily figure and create a ratio from it using the current UK population ( 67,886,011 ) we get 1 in about 34,400. If we then apply that ratio to the number of tests done yesterday ( 169,857 ) we get about 3.5 people who would likely have been symptomatic. The headline figure reported from testing of “cases” was 1,400. Granted you could say SOME of the testing was more targeted as some of those will have been people feeling ill enough to want to be tested (or admitted to hospital with symptoms).

At any rate, most of thse 1,400 cases are not feeling unwell at all. Very different from the “cases” reported at the start of this, almost all of whom were feeling ill enough to go to hospital.

Nothing new here, just a different way to illustrate how the “cases” figure is meaningless without a good deal of context which is not provided to people.

89910 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Julian, 11, #1156 of 1222 🔗

We know that ‘spikes’ in Leicester & Aberdeen led to no increase in hospitalisations, the same was announced about Oldham yesterday. It’s an odd illness that’s defining characteristic is that no one’s I’ll!

89915 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to NickR, 9, #1157 of 1222 🔗

I am pretty sure I had EBOLA for the last few weeks. It’s hard to say if that was what it was.

89921 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 8, #1158 of 1222 🔗

I’ve got bubonic plague. I’m unaware of any symptoms, but I just identify as suffering from it.

89926 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1159 of 1222 🔗

That’s very funny.

89929 ▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1160 of 1222 🔗

I’ve got everything. Teeth, skin, viruses …..

89933 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1161 of 1222 🔗

Get tested and let’s get back to what we love…

89966 ▶▶ Aremen, replying to Julian, #1162 of 1222 🔗

I’m no mathematician, but I think you’ve got your sums wrong. I get 67,886,011 divided by 22198 to be 3,058. So infection rate is 1 in 3,058. However, Zoe Covid’s stats are only for people aged 20 to 69, so you’ve got to reduce your population size considerably. I can only go by ONS stats re the numbers of people in the UK in each age group, but the ONS has age groups which don’t correspond to Zoe Covid’s cohort. There are about 10m children and about 5m over 75. Roughly another 3m over 69. Let’s call it 50m. 50m divided by 22198 gives an infection rate of 1 in 2252… roughly.

89996 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Aremen, #1163 of 1222 🔗

Thanks, but my 1 in 34,000 was for the DAILY figure (so 67M / 1434) and I was comparing this with the daily figures from the govt. But I take your point about age groups.

90035 ▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Julian, #1164 of 1222 🔗

Ok. Yes. Point taken re daily rate.

89920 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1165 of 1222 🔗

I don’t have a Times subsciption so I can’t read https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/oi-anti-maskers-stop-ruining-my-rom-com-0w5jj8jgh in full (and not asking for it to be copied) but the gist seems to be “Your virus can’t get through a face rag but it can get through mine-so put yours on”. Can’t they design masks that aren’t one way? Then the worried can wear them .and the non worried don’t have to.

89946 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to arfurmo, 4, #1166 of 1222 🔗

Having to have more contact with S-I-L than is good for me at the moment because M-I-L needs a lot of help.

She just loves medical issues and is the sort of person who “enjoys” illness. When I told her that OH and I both had mask exemptions but told her I wouldn’t discuss why,
she nearly had a dickie fit.

“They’re not for you but to protect others if you cough or sneeze”. Excuse me, but I’ve never made it a habit of mine to cough and sneeze over anyone and anyway those paper masks are useless, it says so on the tin.

” Oh I’ve made my own and it’s got three filters”

Need a few suggestions to combat her take on masks. Any offers?
I’m afraid, for family reasons F.O is out of the question!

90002 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Margaret, 3, #1167 of 1222 🔗

I don’t think it is worth the bother Margaret,she seems too far gone to me,
Oh I’ve made my own and it’s got three filters ”,give me strength !,you’re right she’s another one enjoying all of this.

Does that mean she’s getting three times less oxygen in and three times more CO2 retained ?,or is the mathematical formula more complicated than that ? !,or is she just completely crackers ?.

90032 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, #1168 of 1222 🔗

Just don’t sneeze, whatever you do, or she’ll have a total meltdown.

89922 Roger Pearce, replying to Roger Pearce, 5, #1169 of 1222 🔗

I’ve just posted this on the Telegraph:

The apparently frightening spike in confirmed new cases in France is largely owing to a statistical anomaly. In week 33, France recorded 11633 new cases. But in the previous week, it recorded a negative total of 8384. The apparent spike is simply a statistical correction (‘données consolidées’, according to the weekly summary dated 13 August)

89931 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Roger Pearce, 1, #1170 of 1222 🔗

33 13 11633

My cynical eye looks and wonders, are they special numerals. Something like the da vinci code or a statistical anomaly. https://youtu.be/tNL0XODSMwU

89989 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, #1171 of 1222 🔗

My cynical eye looks and wonders, 8384. Very nearly 4242/2…

89932 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Roger Pearce, 2, #1172 of 1222 🔗

Absolutely – any half-competent statistician knows the uselessness of looking at short intervals to extract a signal from noise.

89923 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #1173 of 1222 🔗

If I were in a Public Health position I would be worried of the rapidly increasing C-19 numbers in several European countries. Although many are false positives and the clinical cases are mild, younger and mostly not hospitalized, I would be worried of spread that might trickle into vulnerable segments of the population. I would think if one of our public health actions recently could have been a grave mistake. Face masks. Can they spread the disease directly or indirectly by changing the behaviour?

In the rush for face masks nobody considered many aspects. People constantly fiddling with the fingers on their mask. Badly fitted masks. Different quality of masks. Change of behaviour and reduced handwashing. Face masks giving you false sense of protection and more risky behaviour.

Any serious study on the use of face masks would include multiple variables to be tested like quality of face masks, how to put on properly, change of mask on a daily basis, influence on handwashing, influencing of going into crowds. In short, all these factors would be factored in. And a control group not wearing mask and both cohorts exposed during the same stage of the pandemic. That would be a properly RCT study. None has been published yet on C-19 but we have up to 8-10 RCT studies in influenza not showing any effect of face masks.

Without proper evidence, instituting face masks in this low phase of the pandemic in Europe and seeing rising numbers should ring alarm bells just observing these figures in Europe, now almost all countries with mandated mask. And at the same time observing no influence of face masks in the rising numbers of C-19 in many countries experiencing the peak now. (Not even considering the somewhat inconsistent advice to the public of masks not necessary during the peak of infection and deaths in April but now supposedly in the end of pandemic)

89930 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1174 of 1222 🔗

rapidly increasing C-19 numbers”

“Numbers”? What numbers?

= “Cases”? – i.e mainly not illness.

That’s the trouble with incontinently distorting the numbers game in so many ways and stoking up hysteria. If I was a public health official, I would be beating myself up about my susceptibility to panic and hyperbole.

I would also be logically more concerned about seasonal ‘flu.

As to the ‘vulnerabe population’ – that population is simply and normally vulnerable : the age-related deaths attributed to Covid – even where accurate – were part of the life-end mortality that would have occurred this year through many agents, after a preceding dip in mortality. Note the mean age.

Face masks don’t need another false alarm to invalidate their general use.

89967 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to RickH, 2, #1175 of 1222 🔗

I agree with you that the public health response has been hysterical, inconsistent and counterproductive. Agree that most of the figures are distorted and true cases are far lower. But I would not deny that there are some genuine cases occurring with hospitalizations and even ICU. This is occurring in Aragon, a province in Spain not hit much in the April pandemic. I stated just a hypothetical situation where the public health official very easily could dismiss the use of masks as a meaningless or even dangerous advice and get rid of it.

89974 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1176 of 1222 🔗

Perhaps – but, as to numbers – all within what would be considered normal variability given the mild on-going circulation of an infection.

89964 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1177 of 1222 🔗

The problem is the consistent use of ceteris parebus (all things being equal) – the Theorists wet dream as to the systematic impacts of a localised effect. Problem is the Nature doesn’t work that way. It never has. We have the madness of crowds precisely because of persistence effects and minimisation of energy.

Another great example is the Travelling Salesman problem (also called Hamiltonian Circuits). The idea is to work out at a system level what is the minimum distance a salesman will travel so that he visits each city in a network. There is no unique solution in general unless you force restrictions on the system. What you find is that at a local level there are inefficiencies – salesman needs to travel a few times to a town to reach others.

But the system is optimised. What this means is that often you have to make certain things inefficient at a local level, or just leave them be and figure out what local things you can tweak to get the result.

And it’s been known now for quite some time, the most effective things are to wash your hands more, don’t overcrowd if you can (and by that I mean sardine like) for a prolonged period, and maybe look after the elderly with other issues a bit more.

But all these diktats? They just show that we have a bunch of people acting like kids with guns. And driven by the fallacy that local effects always lead to system effects

89977 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 1, #1178 of 1222 🔗

“… we have a bunch of people acting like kids with guns.” – or any new toys.

At root is simple statistical innumeracy and lack of understanding.

90027 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #1179 of 1222 🔗

and sociopathy!

89934 swedenborg, 3, #1180 of 1222 🔗

https://thespinoff.co.nz/covid-19/14-08-2020/the-capitals-covid-scare-that-wasnt/

St Jacinda’s difficult world. Travellers from NZ testing positive after returning to their home countries. How to handle or not handle this embarrassing question. This in Wellington with no C-19 cases yet. From a ramen shop.
“He said the person was asymptomatic when they visited, but have later tested positive. The Ministry of Health later confirmed what Boote had been told was correct – a Japanese traveller, who left New Zealand on August 8, had visited the restaurant in Wellington. They tested positive after leaving the country.”

89938 RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #1181 of 1222 🔗

Is this a spoof, or are the modern Mengele’s really riding this high on the wave of Covid?

‘Morality pills’ may be the US’s best shot at ending the coronavirus pandemic, according to one ethicist”

https://theconversation.com/morality-pills-may-be-the-uss-best-shot-at-ending-the-coronavirus-pandemic-according-to-one-ethicist-142601

89956 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to RickH, 4, #1182 of 1222 🔗
89961 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1183 of 1222 🔗

Here’s the author:

Parker Crutchfield Associate Professor of Medical Ethics, Humanities and Law, Western Michigan University

My research in bioethics focuses on questions like how to induce those who are noncooperative to get on board with doing what’s best for the public good. To me, it seems the problem of coronavirus defectors could be solved by moral enhancement: like receiving a vaccine to beef up your immune system, people could take a substance to boost their cooperative, pro-social behavior. Could a psychoactive pill be the solution to the pandemic?”

Moral enhancement is the use of substances to make you more moral. The psychoactive substances act on your ability to reason about what the right thing to do is, or your ability to be empathetic or altruistic or cooperative.”

“Another challenge is that the defectors who need moral enhancement are also the least likely to sign up for it. As some have argued, a solution would be to make moral enhancement compulsory or administer it secretly, perhaps via the water supply . “

89968 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1184 of 1222 🔗

No words, awful, awful, awful.

89969 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #1185 of 1222 🔗

Boil the water before drinking it. Or buy bottled water. Looking to me that university scientists must be struggling with their students if they regard this as moral.

I do hope the sentencing at the Corona trials will involve lots of rope.

89998 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1186 of 1222 🔗

And I’d like to see Parker Crutchfield’s live trial. Just from a moral perspective of course!

89995 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1187 of 1222 🔗

Lovely,who’s version of morality would that be then ?.

89999 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Paul, 1, #1188 of 1222 🔗

I guess they have specially-brewed woke pills that enforce woke ideas, but suppress other (non-woke) popular ideas?

90021 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, 1, #1189 of 1222 🔗

The prof’s ideas about ethics and humanities are along way from mine!

90017 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1190 of 1222 🔗

And the military has been forcing enhancements like vaccines or “uppers” upon soldiers for a long time.

That’s all right then!

89993 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to RickH, 1, #1191 of 1222 🔗

This warped, twisted approach to “sanity” is what I fear the most. We are basically being touted as insane aren’t we … theoretically you could imagine a scenario where we are all incarcerated. That is totalitarian eugenics. I hope that the “bio-ethicists” really are not in on this, or at least not taking advantage.

90015 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #1192 of 1222 🔗

What if researchers developed and delivered a moral enhancer rather than an immunity enhancer?Moral enhancement is the use of substances to make you more moral. The psychoactive substances act on your ability to reason about what the right thing to do is, or your ability to be empathetic or altruistic or cooperative.

Wow – lobotomy in a pill!

89943 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1193 of 1222 🔗

YouGov poll – my title ‘little Scotlanders’

Four in ten Scots don’t think English travellers should be allowed in without quarantining

Politics likely plays a role. The majority of 2019 SNP voters (54%) want English travellers to stay away, while just 19% of Scottish Tory voters say the same. Likewise, ‘Yes’ voters from 2014 would block English tourists by 52% to 36%, while these figures are largely reversed among ‘No’ voters, who support allowing English tourists to cross the border by 55% to 30%.

Welsh and Northern Ireland figures are lower.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2020/08/13/four-ten-scots-dont-think-english-travellers-shoul

Visitors from further afield are less welcome, the survey suggests, with more opposition than support for allowing unrestricted travel for Danish, Swedish, German, Spanish, Italian, Chinese and American tourists.

Over 1000 people took part – I don’t know who payed for the survey.

89986 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Basics, 5, #1194 of 1222 🔗

They should keep Boris up there in quarantine for a few weeks/months – apparently he’s on holiday in Scotland.

89990 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Basics, 4, #1195 of 1222 🔗

Everyone turning inwards and pathetic, no no don’t let those strange foreign folk from the next town along in…this is a local village for local people.

89947 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 16, #1196 of 1222 🔗

Done my (tiny) bit to de-fund the BBC. Finally got my refund after ditching my licence 8 weeks ago! (delay blamed on our old mucker COVID). I bet they wouldn’t have left it that long if the debt had been the other way round.

89957 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to kh1485, 4, #1197 of 1222 🔗

Well done, you’ll feel better for it (14 years TV free).

89960 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 10, #1198 of 1222 🔗

Thanks. I already feel liberated from the continual propaganda. Even before the COVID terror landed, I was sick of the constant finger-wagging and nannying (climate change and myriad other issue-driven drivel). Even my beloved ‘Gardeners’ World’ wasn’t immune, though I did tend to watch that purely for Nigel!. I wish I’d done it years ago and knowing I am north of £150 richer each year is a bonus!

90013 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 2, #1199 of 1222 🔗

I bought a Firestick for £35 and I was already a Prime member, so there’s plenty for me to watch for £80 per year, plus a lot of other perks. There are some excellent serials.

There’s a lot of rubbish of course, bad taste is popular as Pevsner said – but that applies to normal tv in spades anyway. Best thing, my viewing isn’t hacked to pieces with adverts.

90028 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1200 of 1222 🔗

Thanks Cheezilla.

What’s struck me by not having a telly is how much my life used to be dictated by what was on. Got so much more stuff done and am enjoying revisiting my CD collection! (very behind the times at kh towers!)

90195 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #1201 of 1222 🔗

Best decision my wife and I made when moving into our new house after getting married was not to bother with a TV licence. Don’t miss if at all.

90055 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, #1202 of 1222 🔗

I don’t have a telly but might get a licence just to put them to the trouble of refunding me, ta for the idea.

89952 Jon Doe, 2, #1203 of 1222 🔗

Link to paper on OECD countries adoption of lockdown:

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/08/10/2010625117.full.pdf

89962 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1204 of 1222 🔗

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.full

“A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers”

 Then the letter of the authors 2020 in light of the C-19 epidemic published 30 th March

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.responses#covid-19-shortages-of-masks-and-the-use-of-cloth-masks-as-a-last-resort

This is important as a RCT which showed 2015 that cloth masks was dangerous and not effective for HCW. The authors response 5 years later clearly warn HCW to use cloth masks. If this was not good for HCW how can it be useful for the general public?

89987 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1205 of 1222 🔗

The blue surgical masks are no good either unless changed every 20 minutes (As per an article in the Sidney Times from 2003 when Sars was around) Now do you suppose the people wearing those blue face masks change them every 20 minutes or when they become damp?

89991 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to KBuchanan, 6, #1206 of 1222 🔗

They roll them up, stick them in their pockets and the incubate, they put them on again, and revitalise culture, like making bread….Mummmmm

Then they strap it to their stupid zombie faces and suck up the heady brew of viral particles and bacteria.

90003 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1207 of 1222 🔗

Liberally spiced with fungus.

90012 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1208 of 1222 🔗

Humungis Fungis

90048 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #1209 of 1222 🔗

Nope they put them in their pocket till tomorrow as I did with snot rags after school unless mum sorted it out.

89979 Graham, replying to Graham, 11, #1210 of 1222 🔗

A very short postcard from Hay on Wye, town of a hundred second-hand bookshops. My son and I went there two days ago (Thursday 13th August). The main car park was almost full – a couple of hundred cars, I think – and the town was packed with people shopping and eating at tables outside cafés. Quite encouraging at first. I started to go into a bookshop but paused when I saw a table with hand sanitiser and the usual roll of blue paper and a sign telling me I had to sanitise before coming in. I was going to go in and ignore the sanitiser when my son said, “No, Dad, we can’t go in there” and pointed to a Black Lives Matter poster by the door. My son isn’t white (I am white and my wife is black) but hates BLM for the poison it is, as does my wife.

We walked on to another bookshop and were told by the lady at the door to put face masks on. I refused, said I was exempt, and a discussion ensued of which I couldn’t hear much of the other side because of her mask and the perspex screen. I pointed out that we were in Wales, where no masks are needed in shops, and she said she was just a minion and that it was the owner’s wish. What sort of person calls herself a minion? I pity her lack of pride. I pointed out that we could self-certify as exempt, and told her I wasn’t going to put an unknown liquid on my hands either, and to her credit she let us in. It turned out to be a very good bookshop, and good value too (I suppose having so much competition helps) and we spent about £36.

On the way to Hay I had seen my first masked car driver. So that wasn’t a myth after all.

89981 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Graham, 6, #1211 of 1222 🔗

It’s Booth’s bookshop that insists on facemasks (the one with the red front and green glazed tiles), or did a couple of weeks ago. A shame because, as you say, it’s an excellent bookshop. But it has lost my custom after my visit a couple of weeks ago.

90042 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Graham, 1, #1212 of 1222 🔗

Independent shops will have been given no advice about the madk regs ie not their job to enforce it and illegal to question your Disability.

89985 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 14, #1213 of 1222 🔗

Visit to local Waitrose this morning. After confirming to the Door Director that I do not have a mask he said that the police could issue me with a fine. Senior Manager was requested and he was most apologetic and said that Door Directors will receive additional training to understand that people are exempt that that is that. (Felt so sorry for the manager – when he arrived one of his lenses were fogged up, eventually he had to remove his glasses as both were fogged up)

90001 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #1214 of 1222 🔗

Door Director? WTF!!

90016 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1215 of 1222 🔗

Don’t know what else to call them

90069 ▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Victoria, #1216 of 1222 🔗

Ingress supervisor

90020 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, #1217 of 1222 🔗

Waitrose? Say no more …

89992 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 6, #1218 of 1222 🔗

”First do no harm”

Is it fair to say that the purveyors of the fraud known as ”the science” along with ‘public health experts’ in the UK have done a great deal of harm and achieved next to no good with their interference in our lives?

Would we have faired better without them?

89994 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Major Panic, 7, #1219 of 1222 🔗

A great deal of harm, that’s an understatement

89997 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1220 of 1222 🔗

They really don’t care who gets hurt do they?!

Grant Shapps sowed confusion on Thursday night by apparently giving out the wrong information, suggesting the quarantine measures would be coming into force on Sunday when, in fact, they are doing so 20 hours earlier.Shapps said during a TV interview that people arriving in the UK from France would have to isolate for 14 days from Sunday, but the move is actually coming into force at 4am on Saturday.
Meanwhile, in a swiftly deleted tweet referencing the imposition of the measures, Shapps declared at 10.45pm on Thursday: “It’s Saturday at 4am, meaning that anyone returning on Sunday onwards will need to quarantine.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/14/grant-shapps-slight-slip-sows-confusion-over-france-quarantine-rules-covid-19

Bastards!!

90000 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1221 of 1222 🔗

Says convicted internet fraudster Grant Shapps

90010 mjr, 1, #1222 of 1222 🔗

SATURDAY has arrived … welcome and enjoy.
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/08/15/latest-news-104/#respond
and remember .. dont be cynical.. 🙂

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51KBuchanan2, 7, 6, 20, 4, 7, 5
51Edward12, 21, 2, 2, 4, 4, 5, 1
51Lockdown Truth5, 4, 0, 20, 7, 8, 4, 3
49karenovirus0, 1, 4, 4, 4, 3, 0, 3, 5, 1, 3, 6, 2, 1, 5, 4, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1
48MadJock136, 8, 4
48TheBluePill44, 2, 0, 0, 2
47richard riewer3, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 5, 9, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 5, 20
46Peter Thompson28, 14, 4
46Steve Martindale13, 12, 16, 5
46Major Panic9, 84, 1, 14, 1, 0, 3, 6
45Aremen2, 917, 16, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0
44Albie21, 23
44Carrie1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 3, 2, 2, 3, 3, 6, 2, 1, 3, 0, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 3, 2, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 2
41Saved To Death21, 16, 4
40Kath Andrews7, 23, 8, 2, 0
38Liam18, 7, 10, 3
38A. Contrarian24, 3, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5
38stefarm25, 1, 0, 2, 5, 0, 5
38mjr110, 3, 1, 1, 0, 14, 8, 0
37Suitejb352
37Marie R1, 1, 33, 2
37RDawg4, 17, 6, 10
36Klein23, 13
34peter22, 12
34Winston Smith0, 7, 1, 6, 7, 13
33mrjoeaverage33
33Will2, 4, 21, 3, 3
31davews8, 3, 17, 1, 2
28MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG4, 24
27409627
27Recusant0, 27, 0
27Lucky515, 6, 1
26Ovis7, 16, 3
25Jonathan Palmer4, 1, 1, 5, 1, 0, 8, 0, 2, 3, 0
23Gman23
23JohnB23
23Jonathan Castro9, 14
23Bigland17, 4, 2
23John Stone14, 4, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0
22Carausius22
22Toby Pierides22
21Drawde92721
21guy1531, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 3, 3, 1, 3, 2, 0, 3
20Digital Nomad20
20Jane20
20Simon Dutton11, 1, 8
19thedarkhorse16, 3
19Sophie12316, 2, 1
19JulieR1, 15, 0, 3
19tallandbald5, 1, 9, 4
19Not Tiger Woods12, 2, 0, 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
18James Leary #KBF94, 5
18hotrod11, 10, -4, 1
17GetaGrip17
17Tim Bidie17
17DRW4, 11, 2
17PastImperfect2, 2, 13
17ConstantBees0, 3, 2, 5, 3, 0, 0, 1, 3
16Mark B16
16smileymiley13, 3
16Laura Suckling3, 6, 1, 1, 5
16NickR2, 0, 1, 11, 2
15commononsense5, 10
15Steeve1, 2, 7, 1, 4
14kf9914, 0
14Country Mumkin12, 1, 1
14Nessimmersion7, 4, 3
14JohnB0, 3, 5, 1, 5
13Guirme13
13IanE85
13Chicot8, 5, 0
13Moomin7, 1, 2, 0, 1, 2
12dpj12
12alw6, 6, 0
12Andrew Fish3, 7, 2
12David Grimbleby5, 2, 2, 3
12Dave #KBF2, 1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 2
11Graham11
11nfw11
11The Spingler11
11Biker5, 6
11p020990038, 3
11anon9, 1, 0, 0, 1
11Eddie2, 4, 1, 3, 1
11PWL3, 2, 0, 2, 4
10James00710
10Jonathan Smith6, 4
10Nigel Sherratt0, 6, 4
9GrowYourOwn2, 7
9Ethelred the Unready2, 2, 5
8PaulC8
8Tyneside Tigress8
8Edna6, 2
8Tenchy2, 4, 2
8AngloWelshDragon2, 2, 4, 0
8Sarigan35, 0, 0
7Caroline Watson7
7Castendo0, 7
7HoMojo7, 0
7A Meshiea0, 0, 7
7Bella0, 2, 0, 5
6Hammer Onats6
6Joseph Collins6
6Lili6
6Lms236
6Ossettian6
6arfurmo3, 3
6Roger Pearce1, 5
6PoshPanic0, 0, 6
5Miss Owl5
5Ben Shirley1, 4
5Margaret2, 3
5Keen Cook0, 3, 2
5Colin0, 0, 0, 5
4Allen4
4RDJ4
4Biggles4, 0
32 pence3
3Howie593
3Marie Larsson3
3Nic3
3Simon3
3Telpin3
3Tim3
36097 Smith W2, 1
3Poppy2, 1
3Yawnyaman21
3Alison92, 1, 0
3microdave0, 0, 2, 1
2Coronamoana2
2DJ Dod2
2DressageRider2
2drrobin2
2hat man2
2HelenaHancart2
2janis pennance2
2Jon Doe2
2Lockdown_Lunacy2
2nottingham692
2Ozzie2
2Snake Oil Pussy2
2Tinxx2
2Cicatriz0, 2
2watashi0, 2
2nat1, 1, 0
1BecJT1
1Cambridge N1
1DavidC1
1Ewan Duffy1
1Michel1
1Ned of the Hills1
1Paul Mendelsohn1
1RichardJames1
1Steve1
1Thinkaboutit1
1James Bertram0, 1
1Carlo1, 0, 0
1Bruno0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, -2, -3, -2, 2, 2, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0
0Fed up0
0Gerry Mandarin0
0Silke David0
0SweetBabyCheeses0
0Andy Riley0, 0
0Mark T0, 0, 0
-5Sylvie1, 2, -8

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