Last updated2020-08-15T12:11:00



90005 mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #1 of 1033 🔗

first!!!! for the first time..

90007 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 10, #2 of 1033 🔗

welcome to saturday… (or groundhog day number 150ish)

90122 ▶▶ IanE, replying to mjr, 3, #3 of 1033 🔗

Yes, but as Bob Dylan sang :

“And the first one now
Will later be last”

90006 Steve Banks, 1, #4 of 1033 🔗


90009 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 101, #5 of 1033 🔗

Sorry to duplicate, but I have revised my post from yesterday, and given it a lot of updates with many more ideas I have had. This is the final version! But feel free mods to delete as I started this yesterday! As follows:

I have an idea for the Government.

They talked in the past about using the Isle of Wight as a guinea pig for their “track and trace” app nonsense. There is logic in guinea pig experiments, so here is a suggestion.

I live in Chelmsford, Essex. Population nearly 200k.

Let’s ring fence the entire place. Yes that’s right.
Bizarre, I know, but how is it crazier than the rest of the lunacy going on, seriously?!!

We have a hospital.
We have shops.
We have a cinema.
We have numerous schools.
We have hairdressers and barbers.
We have a football stadium.
We have a race course.
We have care homes.
We have big indoor shopping centres.
We are densely populated.
We have park and ride busy buses.

Let’s ring fence Chelmsford. Blockade it if you have to. Let’s do that for 28 days i.e equalling the new PHE method of counting deaths.

Now….that’s done.

Rules as follows:

-No social distancing
-No masks
-Mass gatherings actively encouraged.
-No nonsense, real life, old normal.
-No discharging of at-risk NHS patients to our care homes.
-Daily Coronavirus briefing where we confirm the zero deaths, and take questions from the public, and only ones where the questioner has a bigger brain than a pea.
-The above can include a comparison of deaths/cases with pariah states
-Ban on the use of any modern pandemic terminology e.g “new normal,” “unprecedented” etc.
-Hand washing encouraged, but no hand sanitisers.
-Schools MUST stay open all day.
-Singing in churches actively encouraged.
-All Government ministers are banned from entering Chelmsford. Anyone found to be flouting this rule will be deported to Melbourne under local byelaws.
-Anyone found entering our waters via the River Chelmer via dinghy, will be issued with a face mask, and then deported to The Wash.
-All local newspaper comments moderated to ensure no involvement from the 77th Brigade.
-Security guards at the front of shops to enforce policy. They will be encouraged to shake hands with incoming customers to thank them in advance for their kind custom.
-Ban on the use of the phrase “stay safe” on texts and emails
-Fines of up to £3200 for non compliance.
-The release of a new tracing app, to find anyone not complying with the rules.
-Public encouraged to shame those who flout the above rules.

There will be a new slogan printed, and will be stuck on walls, buses and all public places, and visible at the daily briefings:


Let’s do that for a month. Let’s be guinea pigs.

Those that don’t want to, can take a holiday somewhere or cower in their homes.

Let’s then see if we all die and end up in our hospital. I’d happily take the risk and be part of the experiment.

I know we will all come out unscathed.

A real life experiment that we can prove to the masses this whole thing is just a nonsense that is now getting seriously out of hand!

This will be named the Chelmsford Challenge.

Bring it on!

90026 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to mrjoeaverage, 26, #6 of 1033 🔗

-Mass gatherings actively encouraged.

This one’s already been done. Look at all those BLM protesters, football supporters, beach-lovers, illegal ravers… the corpses are piled high. Bring out your dead!

90041 ▶▶ steph, replying to mrjoeaverage, 15, #7 of 1033 🔗

We also have a first class cricket ground which no member has been allowed to set foot in this year. One of the many things we have paid for but can’t have.
I’m less concerned about the financial cost but fed up to the back teeth of the social and mental health costs of this and so much else.

90054 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to mrjoeaverage, 4, #8 of 1033 🔗

Not so far from Chelmsford myself and I’d be up for that!

90065 ▶▶ nat, replying to mrjoeaverage, 11, #9 of 1033 🔗

I love it, but disturbingly, a return to the old normal looks like a revolutionary idea. Too radical for the government to consider.

90154 ▶▶ annie, replying to mrjoeaverage, 9, #10 of 1033 🔗

Should be imitated all over the country.

90380 ▶▶ MRG, replying to mrjoeaverage, 3, #11 of 1033 🔗

Do you do B&B? We’ll pay whatever you ask!

90456 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mrjoeaverage, 4, #12 of 1033 🔗

Good idea and am in favour of that!!!

90657 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #13 of 1033 🔗

Brilliant! I am in Billericay next door, so can you extend it to us as well please?

90730 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #14 of 1033 🔗

It’s what they are really going to do on IOW but, since it’s an island, they will be able to keep it a secret if it all goes horribly wrong (ie no problems,) or they all die of the Covid so win/win no matter.

90746 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to karenovirus, 1, #15 of 1033 🔗

Too true!

90745 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #16 of 1033 🔗

Beautiful idea. However there are so many people that have bought the the fear narrative, you will find the majority in Chelmsford would not take part.

On a Facebook group I’m a member of for observational purposes only (it’s aim is to boycott unsafe schools and there’s over 6k members), one member posted a headteachers response to her letter about safety measures she was demanding.

In the response, the headteacher suggested meeting the parent to discuss it.

The parent and many of the group were up in arms about the “meeting”. How’s insensitive, I’d run a mile, face to face no way… you get the idea.

People are entrenched in their fear that being close to someone else is the most dangerous thing in the world. It’s excruciating to think about, but there it is.

I have absolutely no idea how you minimise that level of brainwashing.

90014 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 6, #17 of 1033 🔗

Traffic in my small city yesterday was busier than pre lockdown, today it is even worse with several gridlocked. I know some holidaymakers are going home but they go straight onto the out of town motorway.

Thing is, there are No Queues. Not Tesco, Sainsbury’s or Morrisons, what’s that all about?
12.20hrs Sat.

90045 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to karenovirus, 24, #18 of 1033 🔗

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/15/its-the-worst-ive-ever-seen-londons-west-end-struggles-to-bounce-back-covid-19 though spoilt by “ Parents Helen and Warren had taken their daughters Jasmine, 10, and Beth, 13, to the Tower of London and London Zoo. Both, they said, were “very quiet”. Reassured by the presence of hand sanitiser stations they felt their visit was “a risk, but a considered one,” said Helen.”.
Also https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/13/coronavirus-sadiq-khan-footfall-in-london-west-end-down-by-two-thirds-on-last-year

Get rid of masks on public transport and in shops and the punters will come flooding back .

90052 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to arfurmo, 7, #19 of 1033 🔗

But we must hail The Science (TM)!

90320 ▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to arfurmo, 8, #20 of 1033 🔗

But, but the wearing of masks is to give confidence and encourage people back into shops and public transport, don’t you know!

Here’s the bog-standard, dreary government response to a petition I signed:

“The Government has responded to the petition you signed –“Repeal the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English shops.”.

Government responded:

People must play their part to reduce the spread of the virus. Wearing a face covering helps this, giving people the confidence to return to shops safely, and better protects those who work in retail.

The government is telling the public to play their part and wear face coverings in order to help fight the spread of the virus, enabling further easing of national restrictions.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) usually spreads by droplets from coughs, sneezes and speaking. These droplets can also be picked up from surfaces, if you touch a surface and then your face without washing your hands first. This is why social distancing, regular hand hygiene, and covering coughs and sneezes is so important in controlling the spread of the virus. There is evidence to suggest that, when used correctly, face coverings may reduce the likelihood of someone with the infection passing it on to others, particularly if they are asymptomatic. Because face coverings are mainly intended to protect others, not the wearer, from coronavirus (COVID-19) they are not a replacement for social distancing and regular hand washing.

Since 11 May, the Government has been advising people to wear face coverings in enclosed indoor spaces, where they cannot easily social distance, and where they come into contact with people they do not normally meet.

The wearing of face coverings has been required on public transport since 15 June.

In recent weeks, some lockdown restrictions have been eased and the retail sector has reopened. As footfall increases, we want to give people more confidence to shop safely, and enhance protections for those who work in shops. The British Retail Consortium has said that together with other social distancing measures, face coverings can make shoppers feel even more confident about returning to the high street.

The Government has published guidance online which sets out when the public need to wear one and how they can make their own. There are exemptions for those who are unable to wear a face covering due to age, health, disability, and other reasons. There has been an ongoing assessment as to the impacts of the Government’s policy, including on groups with protected characteristics, that has informed decision making.

The Government is running a proactive communications campaign on face coverings to alert the public where they are now required to wear a face covering, who is exempt from wearing one, and how to wear one correctly. We are actively engaging with stakeholders including disability charities to communicate new guidance to their members as well as highlighting this message to the general public on social media and via broadcasting opportunities.

On 31 July the Prime Minister announced that the face covering regulations will be extended to cover further indoor settings such as places of worship from 8 August.

We will keep advice on the use of face coverings under review, in line with the latest scientific evidence.”

So, the government wants to give us MORE confidence to go to the shops! Who are they trying to kid? Well, whoppee do da, let’s all skip off to the shops with our naps – what could be more enjoyable?!?!

90673 ▶▶▶▶ alison, replying to HelenaHancart, 4, #21 of 1033 🔗

Really interesting that even their own justification dwells on giving confidence, and doesn’t particularly press any argument that the darn things are remotely useful. Confidence is such an inadequate and irrelevant justification for mandating anything. There might be a public health justification, in some circumstances for acting to alleviate an identified risk. How can anybody with half a brain cell think that making people cover their faces in order to get other people to shop is a reasonable justification?

I don’t know if any human rights lawyer has had a proper look at it, but I think that wearing a face covering against one’s will must amount to an interference with ECHR rights, possibly freedom of expression/ freedom of thought? If so, then the interference has to be in pursuit of a legitimate aim, and must be a proportionate means. If the chief justifications advanced by the government relate to encouraging third parties to shop and get on the bus, I struggle to see, given the remoteness of the wearing of a face covering from the intended end, and the fact that whilst the economy is important, getting people to spend is not normally an acceptable justification for interference with fundamental freedoms, how there’s a legimitate aim here. I suppose they could weasel out on the very thin scientific evidence supporting conclusion there might be protection from the virus. But this crap about confidence is at the very least an irrelevant and illegitimate aim the government have taken into account.

90742 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas Pelham, replying to alison, 4, #22 of 1033 🔗

I’m convinced it’s against UNESCO article 6 on bioethics; compulsory health interventions are not generally allowed, they have to have consent. They tried but failed to make the case for voluntary masks so they’ve decided, being as they are little fascists, simply to compulse them.

92427 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Thomas Pelham, #23 of 1033 🔗

This is why there are very loose conditions on the wearing of face masks as they must prove that they do not cause harm to health, and as no medical risk assessment has been carried out they can’t force everyone to wear them, hence the exemptions that anyone can use if they don’t want wear one. But they think people are too lazy or stupid to read the actual guidelines…which sadly, a lot of people are!

92429 ▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to alison, #24 of 1033 🔗

Thanks, Alison, my thoughts as well.

90407 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to arfurmo, 4, #25 of 1033 🔗

Well, in fairness, the top attraction at the Tower of London has always been the hand sanitiser stations.

90989 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to grammarschoolman, #26 of 1033 🔗

The stones of the White Tower are interesting (geology nerd).

90464 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to arfurmo, 5, #27 of 1033 🔗

Where I work, I’ve been surprised at how certain visitors sanitise their hands every time they passed by a hand sanitiser station.

The most bizarre was certain visitors after having gone to the toilet and washed their hands then use the sanitiser on the way out.


90598 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #28 of 1033 🔗

I mentioned this to someone the other day and pointed out that it’s like some kind of religious ritual. A kind of subconscious votive offering to the god of the little Covids.

90675 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to matt, 5, #29 of 1033 🔗

The local film center has opened up again, and to pay for one’s ticket with a credit card one must first use hand sanitizer. ???? There is no evidence of fomite or whatever retention of the virus on anything. No other shops are asking one to disinfect the card.

It is too bad because the film center is a very nice independent movie house with a great selection of films, documentaries, etc. They are allowed to have just 25 people at once, separated by six seats. I have returned a few times since they were allowed to open and basically no one was there . . . No one wants to wear a mask for two hours to watch a film. No one wants to go to the movies and the lobby is bare (normally one runs into a lot of people one knows) . . . The whole thing is cocked up and it will be a miracle if our very nice film center lasts to see another season.

91227 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Jane, #30 of 1033 🔗

I got an email from the local cinema saying they were opening again in 7 days. I looked at the offerings; all repeats of tripe.

SO! I emailed back “Thanks, but I won’t be coming back due to your face-nappies policy. Email me again when your nonsense ends.”

90738 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 2, #31 of 1033 🔗

Yeah, its like contantly making the sign of the cross with holy water at every stop in a pilgrimage site.

90018 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 20, #32 of 1033 🔗

Re-published from previous LS

Visit to local Waitrose this morning. After confirming to the Door Director that I do not have a mask he said that the police could issue me with a fine. Senior Manager was requested and he was most apologetic and said that Door Directors will receive additional training to understand that people are exempt that that is that. (Felt so sorry for the manager – when he arrived one of his lenses were fogged up, eventually he had to remove his glasses as both were fogged up)

*Door Director = not sure what to call the people guarding the door

90036 ▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Victoria, 11, #33 of 1033 🔗

“not sure what to call the people guarding the door”

How about doork(eeper)?

90047 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Malcolm Ramsay, 10, #34 of 1033 🔗

Bouncer? He certainly tried to bounce you.

90110 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to arfurmo, 8, #35 of 1033 🔗

There was one at my local Co-op this morning. Proper looking – big chap, shaved head, tattoos, the lot! I just walked in maskless and nothing was said.

90152 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Malcolm Ramsay, 4, #36 of 1033 🔗


90678 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Malcolm Ramsay, 1, #37 of 1033 🔗


90095 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Victoria, 4, #38 of 1033 🔗


90237 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #39 of 1033 🔗


90396 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Victoria, 3, #40 of 1033 🔗


90819 ▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to Victoria, #41 of 1033 🔗

Mask monitor or head prefect.

90019 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 11, #42 of 1033 🔗

Flu news from South Africa (7 Aug):


Covid news from South Africa (28 July):


Huzzah! We’ve found a cure for flu – it’s Covid!

We joined one woman, Dimpho Matau, on a lengthy walk to the back of the queue, who told us: “I’ve had headaches, diarrhoea, fever, shortness of breath, and I need to test to see if it is COVID.”

But obviously it’s not flu symptoms…

90023 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #43 of 1033 🔗

Oh goody. Can’t wait for this to happen here in the winter.

90030 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to matt, 11, #44 of 1033 🔗

Yes, I’m expecting it to happen here. Prep for a bad winter folks – and I’m not talking about the weather… Assume that what we’re seeing in New Zealand will happen here…

90169 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #45 of 1033 🔗

On the other hand, as reported by the Spectator last week (don’t know if anyone else reported it) there were 5 times more flu deaths than Covid deaths in July!


In one week alone there were more than 900 deaths. And they were reported as flu. So there is at least some hope that, once we’re in flu season, the majority of deaths from it will be accurately reported.

I assume the “Covid death” figures in this article are relatively accurate, being from the ONS, not PHE.

90521 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Mr Dee, #46 of 1033 🔗

I can’t believe we’d go the NZ route. Would we…? I didn’t think we would go down the mandatory mask route, so who knows??

90051 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #47 of 1033 🔗

So how seriously do we take her and the journalists’ suggestions? (It’s down to reductions in international travel and covid distancing etc precautions, preventing flu outbreaks.)

Both of those points are likely to be valid to some extent. We know other respiratory viruses were affected by coronapanic distancing in this country, and it’s generally been understood that flu travels north-south, and back again, seasonally.

On the other hand, it seems likely also that where they are finding or assuming covid, they just aren’t looking for flu.

90060 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, 5, #48 of 1033 🔗

But if all the covid gubbins has magically stopped flu, why hasn’t it stopped the covids?

90072 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #49 of 1033 🔗

I suppose (and I am advocating for the Devil here) the argument would be that the measures have reduced covid spread also, but this new coronavirus would always have hit much higher levels than seasonal flu would have, this year.

90409 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, #50 of 1033 🔗

Oh yes, the old “It would have been worse without it” argument, I wish I had a good answer for that one!

90415 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #51 of 1033 🔗


90680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to A. Contrarian, #52 of 1033 🔗

One possible answer: You can’t prove a negative.
So anyone who says a negative proves something is a nincompoopl

90825 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Phoneutria, replying to A. Contrarian, #53 of 1033 🔗

I painted my house pink to keep the tigers away. It worked! Haven’t seen one round here, ever.

90886 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Phoneutria, #54 of 1033 🔗

The lady who owns Plas Teg – a wonderful Jacobean mansion near me – painted the banqueting hall with whitewash mixed with the donated blood of her friends to appease the spirits of the house. True story…

90078 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #55 of 1033 🔗

Some UK background info, from the CEBM whose reputation imo has come out of this coronapanic hugely enhanced:

What does RCGP surveillance tell us about COVID-19 in the community?

90411 ▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to A. Contrarian, #56 of 1033 🔗

Other way round – it’s the flu that’s increasing, not the covid, therefore demonstrating (again) that the covid is naturally on the way out.

90022 Sarigan, 10, #57 of 1033 🔗

Surely Geneva Airport should suffer the same fate as Basel based on their ludicrous thinking?

90024 mjr, replying to mjr, 30, #58 of 1033 🔗

noticing that Toby has shown the St Johns CPR guide above,
As they say in all the best adverts. “I am not a doctor but….”

I thought the whole point of CPR was to ensure that oxygenated blood continues to reach the brain. So the instructions from St Johns are to compress the heart ( I prefer Nelly the Elephant as my singalong) and carry on ……… until what?

Not only do the instructions omit anything about getting oxygen into the lungs – the usual thing is to breath air into the lungs twice after ever 30 presses – the instructions are to put a towel over the mouth so stopping any air that might actually go near the lungs.

So in fact the whole process is useless.
Another government method for increasing the covid death numbers? .

90217 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to mjr, 10, #59 of 1033 🔗

The St. John’s Ambulance poster and Toby’s headline made me laugh hysterically. It’s brilliant comedy 😂 (if only it weren’t true!)

My 7 year old is going to ask in 10 years time, what we were all on. I hope!

90639 ▶▶▶ Ken Turner, replying to Country Mumkin, #60 of 1033 🔗

It’s not actually SJA – it’s a writeup of the protocol suggested by the Resuscitation Council = the have updated protocols in light of what they call “aerosol generating procedures” – so for instance ambulance crews now need to don level 3 PPE for a resuscitation which apparently takes at least 2 minutes 🙁

As to the breathing for the patient – that was effectively dropped for “lay person” CPR (so for instance when the ambulance service prompt you for CPR they do compression only CPR

you apparently have a few minutes worth of oxygenated blood in your arteries that basic CPR will circulate – the towel or item of clothing across the face is to apparently act as a mask to reduce the risk of aerosols being created by active (effective) CPR

90722 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Country Mumkin, #61 of 1033 🔗

It made me laugh too, and to me it really sums up the absurdity of the whole government response to Covid.

90222 ▶▶ BobT, replying to mjr, 16, #62 of 1033 🔗

When I was a young lad playing by the canal I spotted a child face down in the water. I jumped in, pulled him out, he was not breathing, so gave him CPR mouth to mouth. (He thanked me by vomiting a mixture of the contents of his stomach and a large amount of canal water all over me.)
Clearly under the new CPR rules this child would now be dead. How many drowning victims will now lose their lives if people follow these absolutely nutty new CPR rules?

90276 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to BobT, 3, #63 of 1033 🔗

ah yes but now if the lad was in the canal the emergency services would have to complete a risk assessment and would determine that it was actually too dangerous to go in the water so would wait until the lad floated to the side.

90412 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to BobT, 3, #64 of 1033 🔗

Under the new CPR rules, you’d probably have a clean shirt, though.

90246 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 8, #65 of 1033 🔗

If you don’t have a towel handy, a pillow would be effective.

90413 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #66 of 1033 🔗

Othello would have been a dab hand at this.

90686 ▶▶ Jane, replying to mjr, 4, #67 of 1033 🔗

Yes, the whole process as described is useless. The person who made up the poster must not understand the point of CPR. You are supposed to hold the victim’s nose to make sure your oxygenated air is forced into the person’s lungs. Then pump. There is zero point in pumping unoxygenated blood, as lack of oxygen to the brain for some length of time (can’t recall exact figure) will quickly result in brain damage. Even if the heart starts beating again, the victim still needs oxygenated blood. They must start breathing again. Or, you must breathe for them

So here you are looking at someone on the point of death from heart stopping and you are thinking about SARS-CoV-2???? That is like a medic refusing to treat a patient because the patient might have a cold. Covid-19 is curable. Death is not!!! WTF?

When I took CPR training I was told that once I start CPR I may/must not cease until medical help has arrived to relieve me, or I keel over myself from exhaustion and cannot continue. That is how seriously this intervention is to be taken.

It is absolute madness to promulgate the idea that you should put a towel over the face of a person who is having difficulty or has ceased breathing Suppose the heart and lungs jerk into qaction—that person needs AIR. That is why you loosen collars, etc. To remove any obstacle to life-giving AIR.


91493 ▶▶▶ David Mullen, replying to Jane, #68 of 1033 🔗

Jane your CPR training is seriously out of date. They gave up on the kiss of life at least 5 years ago. They now emphasize heart start machine, those are all over the place. The kiss of life got dropped because it probably never did achieve much and it is a distraction from CPR which is very tricky to do well but more likely to do some good.

90033 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 34, #69 of 1033 🔗

That response from the petition, why are our Government so DIM. Muzzles are not giving people confidence to use shops or buses, they are almost empty. Ministerial cars do not show them what is happening

90177 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #70 of 1033 🔗

Ministers are just front men following the playbook for the scam.

90998 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Dan Clarke, #71 of 1033 🔗

They look at the figures of retail trade going up and pat themselves on the back saying masks work to inspire confidence. My bet is online shopping has gone up, high street footfall is down and what few people they get in shops they’ll only scuttle in and out for essentials.

90037 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #72 of 1033 🔗

The World Health Organisation Hired a PR Firm for COVID – Part 2

Not All Voices Are Equal

The Hill and Knowlton prospectus points out that while the pandemic has dominated discussions, “not all voices are equal and not all are cutting through and being listened to.” The question is, who should be listened to? And, have we been listening to the best, most knowledgeable voices?

Of course, it’s become abundantly clear that the WHO thinks it should be the final arbiter of “facts” as far as the pandemic response is concerned, and social media platforms have dutifully obliged by banning, “fact-checking,” removing and deplatforming anyone presenting a different view.

I believe an argument can be made that we have not been hearing from many who truly deserve to be heard from — front-line doctors, nurses, researchers, virologists and scientists who have tried to present important data and feedback about the novel illness, its treatment, and the world’s response to it.

Many conventional doctors have gotten a rude wake-up call, as they’ve had their views and work censored and banned from the web, simply because it does not conform to the WHO’s messaging.


One recent example is that of Sen. Scott Jensen, a medical doctor. In a July 6, 2020, video, Jensen said he is being investigated and is facing disciplinary action and, possibly, loss of his medical license after an anonymous individual or individuals filed a complaint against him with the Minnesota medical board, accusing him of “spreading misinformation” and “giving reckless advice” about COVID-19. “My God, if this can happen to me, it can happen to anybody,” he says.


90117 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Victoria, 12, #73 of 1033 🔗

The “investigation” into Dr. Jensen has since been dropped, so no disciplinary action. One piece of good news!

90690 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Victoria, 1, #74 of 1033 🔗

Dr. Jensen sharply, and pointedly, questioned the CDC’s new Covid rules on filling out the Blue Form, the cause-of-death portion of the death certificate. He was intereviewed by a Fox News reporter/interviewer. When I circulated this info to my list (I knew something about the whole issue of the importance of filling out the Blue Form correctly in connection, sadly, with the deaths of both my parents) so I understood what Jensen was implying about the CDC’s change. It was a degradation of data.

So a few of my friends did the ad-hom on me: What!! You are now getting your news from Fox News???? Jensensn is a charlatan, blah blah blah.

90038 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 6, #75 of 1033 🔗

The World Health Organisation Hired a PR Firm for COVID – part 1

UN Enlists Army of Internet Trolls to Control Discussions
WHO isn’t the only organization trying to control the narrative, of course. Many other organizations are involved, all working toward the same end. The United Nations, for example, recently enlisted 10,000 “digital volunteers” to rid the internet of what they consider “false” information about COVID-19 and to disseminate what they say is “U.N.-verified, science-based content.”

The campaign, dubbed the Verified initiative, amounts to an army of internet trolls engaging in censorship in an attempt to shut down opposition and opinions that run counter to the status quo.

The major red flag to the U.N.’s campaign is a lack of detail about what constitutes a “conspiracy theory” or “cure with no evidence to back it up.” Some of the information Verified is aiming to share simply states, “If you come across a post online that makes you really angry or frightened, it’s a sign you might be looking at misinformation.”

In a statement released by the Republic of Latvia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, countries are called on to step up and support the U.N.’s mission to counter the “infodemic” that they claim is “as dangerous to human health and security as the pandemic itself:”

“Among other negative consequences, COVID-19 has created conditions that enable the spread of disinformation, fake news and doctored videos to foment violence and divide communities.
It is critical states counter misinformation as a toxic driver of secondary impacts of the pandemic that can heighten the risk of conflict, violence, human rights violations and mass atrocities.”

Ironically, in outlining the “crucial need for access to free, reliable, trustworthy, factual, multilingual, targeted, accurate, clear and science-based information,” they call on countries to take steps to stop the spread of information they deem to be false and to spread information from “trustworthy sources,” which is the U.N.’s Verified campaign.

Who’s in Charge of Truth?

The U.N.’s verified campaign is reminiscent of another self-appointed internet watchdog, NewsGuard, which claims to rate information as “reliable” or “fake” news, supplying you with a color-coded rating system next to Google and Bing searches, as well as on articles displayed on social media.

If you rely on NewsGuard’s ratings, you may decide to entirely skip by those with a low “red” rating in favor of the so-called “more trustworthy” green-rated articles — and therein lies the problem. NewsGuard is in itself fraught with conflict of interest, as it’s largely funded by Publicis, a global communications giant that’s partnered with Big Pharma, such that it may be viewed more as a censorship tool than an internet watchdog.

For example, NewsGuard announced that my site has been classified as fake news because we have reported the SARS-CoV-2 virus as potentially having been leaked from the biosafety level 4 Laboratory in Wuhan City, China, the epicenter of the COVID-19 outbreak. But NewsGuard’s position is in direct conflict with published scientific evidence suggesting this virus was created in a lab and not zoonotically transmitted.

By slapping a “fake news” label on this site, they’re not only doing a disservice to people looking for trustworthy information, but they also spread misinformation themselves. By enlisting an army of trolls to spread their own rhetoric, the concern is that the U.N.’s Verified campaign will do more of the same.


90046 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Victoria, 38, #76 of 1033 🔗

“If you come across a post online that makes you really angry or frightened, it’s a sign you might be looking at misinformation.”

So that’s proof enough for me that the BBC news website is peddling misinformation.

90079 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 17, #77 of 1033 🔗

Galileo posts on catholicchurch.com:
‘The earth goes round the sun.’
Churchmen angry.
Obviously misinformation.

90049 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Victoria, 10, #78 of 1033 🔗

Who’s in Charge of Truth?

This should read: WHO’s in charge of truth.

90692 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #79 of 1033 🔗

WHO is owned by Gates.
Gates is the most dangerous man on the planet.
Except for Melinda (snark alert).

90056 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, 16, #80 of 1033 🔗

It is time we joined Trump in defunding the WHO. Personally, I’d go a step further and do a Japan to the United Nations as well. A thorough denunciation of its usefulness (ie, none) followed by a walkout.

90061 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #81 of 1033 🔗

With his right hand he’s defunding the WHO, but with his left he’s giving GAVI extra funds. It’s a parlour trick.

90064 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #82 of 1033 🔗

We can defund one and ignore the other. There, sorted. 😉

90693 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Mr Dee, #83 of 1033 🔗

GAVI is Gates is a creature of Gates

Gates is most dangerous man on the planet (I know I am repeating myself. But it/I bear/s repeating!)

90059 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Victoria, 8, #84 of 1033 🔗


Interesting information also that BBC health receives money from Bill Gates

90063 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to swedenborg, 7, #85 of 1033 🔗

Gates Foundation. 2.2 million to the BBC in 2017/18. Why?


We are grateful to the wide range of funders, including national governments, the UN and other international organisations, foundations, corporate partners and private individuals that supported our 100 different projects in 2017/18.
Significant donors included the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the UK Department for International Development (DFID), the European Commission, several UN agencies, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation , the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency (SIDA) and the British Council.”

90084 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #86 of 1033 🔗

Huh it’s a conspiracy theory, he was just helping to re-decorate their canteen.

90088 ▶▶▶▶ PD, replying to Mr Dee, 8, #87 of 1033 🔗

He also funds the ‘fiercely independent’ Guardian, which should be rebranded The Bedwetter’s Bugle https://www.theguardian.com/info/2018/oct/02/philanthropic-partnerships-at-the-guardian

90097 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to PD, 4, #88 of 1033 🔗

Pah! It’s a….oh never mind.

90109 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #89 of 1033 🔗

BBC taking money from non government sources??
wont that affect their neutrality. (note tongue firmly in cheek)
of course the funding from european commission explains their position on Brexit.

90082 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to swedenborg, 8, #90 of 1033 🔗

If I listed all the major health organisations that receive funding from the Gates foundation I would be typing till tomorrow – I’ll start with these:

$79 million to Imperial College this Year:


$400,000,000 to WHO, making him the biggest contributor


Do you think this might give him a little influence in policy making?

Great report on Sky News:
Bill gates Pays WHO $4Billion to Declare a Pandemic


90083 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to nat, 7, #91 of 1033 🔗

Pah, It’s a conspiracy theory!

90126 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Two-Six, 11, #92 of 1033 🔗

I know, its outrageous ! Those nutty conspiracy theorists have been banging on for years about Bill Gates’ depopulation agenda and his plan to vaccinate us all with microchips. I know it’s not true because he is currently all over the media saying he has no idea where people get these crazy ideas…oh wait what’s this on his website about microchips for women to control their fertility ?


and his patent for cryptocurrency system using body activity data


and his scannable vaccine implant ?

90206 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to nat, 10, #93 of 1033 🔗

I know…..I was being ironic, great links. The thing is, if I said this to people back in say February like I did, everybody just went pah its a conspiracy theory, I trust Boris, how dare you.

Now even although it is a clear as day that Gates is one of the main drivers behind the Corona Project and he has said there will be no return to normal until we have a vaccine people still say Bah, it’s a conspiracy theory. It Kills me.

90214 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Two-Six, 2, #94 of 1033 🔗

I knew you were being ironic, Two- Six. It’s becoming clearer to some .. .but even providing links to open minded people for verification – well it’s not a popular topic.

90119 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to nat, 17, #95 of 1033 🔗

Gates pretty much owns global public health. He’s a psychopath.

90695 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to nat, 2, #96 of 1033 🔗

Thank you! I have seen similar compendiums of Gates’s intervention in Earth’s health. He is the most dangerous man on the planet.

90719 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Jane, #97 of 1033 🔗

You are welcome !

90694 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to swedenborg, 2, #98 of 1033 🔗

Gates funds many news outlets.
Gates is the most dangerous man on the planet.

90115 ▶▶ John Stone, replying to Victoria, 2, #99 of 1033 🔗

Well, the great news is that our Secretary of State for Digital, Media, Culture and Sport, Oliver Dowden is ex Hill & Knowlton.

90260 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #100 of 1033 🔗

UK Column did a piece on NewsGuard last week: https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-5th-august-2020

Very interesting investigation about the people involved in it!

90371 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Cheezilla, #101 of 1033 🔗

Yep, it’s a very sophisticated operation !

90458 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to nat, 1, #102 of 1033 🔗

Recent graduated questioning established outlets of clearly responible thought an comment – and giving them a red shield oooer! It’s just a sad waster of gretas resources the millions of pounds that are poured into the front for freespeech assasination.

Red shield is actually something to be drawn to to find out why it has been applied. I 100% have no trust in and fact checking organisation – a natural reaction.

90697 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Basics, 1, #103 of 1033 🔗

Red shield as in Rothschild??

90720 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Basics, #104 of 1033 🔗

I interesting trying to google Bill Gates now on Google, very different to a few months ago. Now all you get are the “approved sites” saying x,y,z is not true. I had to use a different search engine

90399 ▶▶ nat, replying to Victoria, #105 of 1033 🔗

I think we are in for an onslaught over the next couple of months. The second wave, BLM, the US election. We will agree to anything to be left in peace.

90039 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #106 of 1033 🔗

The World Health Organisation Hired a PR Firm for COVID – part 0

“The same PR firm the tobacco industry used in 1950 to carry on a 50-year successful strategy to have the public believe cigarettes were not addictive and didn’t cause disease has recently been hired to seek out these influencers to further their COVID-19 agenda.

The PR Firm Behind WHO’s Celeb Endorsements

  • Soft power” is a term that refers to stealth influencing using celebrities and other social media influencers
  • In May 2020, celebrities and social media influencers agreed to “pass the mic” by allowing the World Health Organization and other pandemic response leaders to use their social media accounts to share their messages
  • The WHO paid PR firm Hill and Knowlton Strategies $135,000 to seek out influencers to help build trust in the WHO’s coronavirus recommendations
  • As noted by Corbett, Hill and Knowlton Strategies was also the PR company responsible for crafting a powerful enough campaign to get Americans to rally together in support of the war against Iraq
  • Hill and Knowlton is also the very same PR firm that the tobacco industry used in 1950 to carry on a 50-year successful strategy to have the public believe that cigarettes were not addictive and did not cause cancer


90138 ▶▶ nat, replying to Victoria, 3, #107 of 1033 🔗

“…help build trust in the WHO’s coronavirus recommendations”
… hmm I wonder what the WHO are planning to recommend that they need a PR firm for ?

90040 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 28, #108 of 1033 🔗

Regular stop on the bike ride today: cinnabun cafe in windsor. Popular stop for cyclists. Last time there no masks needed, now for some reason they insist on them in the queue, then obvs you just take them off at table… A queue of cyclists wearing sweaty unhygienic masks, genius. As im still too chicken to contest I simply refused to queue and just sat at a table and ate my own food/drink with 2 buddies who think masks are dumb but do just go along with it… Fuck em, they don’t get my money for their cunty rules.

90044 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mark II, 3, #109 of 1033 🔗

You should wear a mask to cover that potty mouth of yours (Just kidding).

90050 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Achilles, 6, #110 of 1033 🔗

You’ve always lost when you resort to swearing. I know we’ve lost unfortunately already so the language filter has gone 😄

90230 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Mark II, 3, #111 of 1033 🔗

A good swear is necessary at times!

90268 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, 2, #112 of 1033 🔗

Mine has deteriorated dramatically over the last few weeks.

90043 Jon H, 1, #113 of 1033 🔗

Suggested theme tune – Safety Mask by Mediabear


90053 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #114 of 1033 🔗


“Robust T cell immunity in convalescent individuals with asymptomatic or mild COVID-19”

This important article was earlier in preprint not peer reviewed .Just published in Cell. Full article above from Karolinska Stockholm.We are lucky that Project Fear did not stop publication. T cell immunity is now a political issue in the US see link below


90090 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to swedenborg, 5, #115 of 1033 🔗

Now that is very Interesting. It seems to bear out what guy153 has been telling us about. Importance of T cells, looks like you do get decently lasting immunity (for a corona virus) , also seems to be saying there is a degree of cross immunity from previous exposure to other CVs. I hope he will comment on this.

90445 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 3, #116 of 1033 🔗

Antibodies are tiny things that stick to viruses outside cells and either stop them infecting cells (“neutralizing”) or cause other immune system cells to eat them (“opsonizing”).

B-cells make antibodies. CD4+ T-cells (aka “helper” T-cells) help them. Both of these cells make “memory” copies of themselves that stick around for years. If you find CD4+ T-cells which everyone has found it means your body remembers how to make the antibodies .

Antibodies are a very efficient way of clearing a virus (one B-cell can make 2000 of them per second). They will stick around in your blood for a few months, maybe a year. If you still have the antibodies you usually have “sterilizing immunity”– you won’t even get ill at all. But after a year or two or more you still have the memory cells, and will probably get reinfected a bit, but will get better much more quickly.

There is another kind of T-cell, called a “killer T-cell”, “aka CTL (Cytotoxic T Lymphocyte) or “CD8+ T-cell”. These kill cells that are infected with viruses (or that have cancer or are otherwise knackered in some way). They don’t involve antibodies. Everyone found these too. They may be important in recovering from viral infections but it’s quite likely the antibodies do most of the work. On the other hand if you only have antibodies and no killer-T, which you would be unlikely to get from a natural infection, but might end up with after some kinds of vaccines or treatments, that can make matters worse (it definitely does for SARS1) by promoting a cytokine storm, even though the antibodies still work at clearing the virus.

The Buzzfeed story is creating the straw man that T-cells/antibodies are some kind of either/or, and then pointing out that killer-T cells are not a miracle cure. Nobody said they were but nobody found any evidence for killer-T memory in the absence of helper-T memory. Bottom line: if you have the Ts, you have a big head-start on making the antibodies so you will get better and it will be fine.

The problem is it has been being presented this way in the skeptic press as well (and I’ve tried to correct Toby on it a few times!). It sounds like people are saying “never mind you don’t need antibodies you can use T-cells”. You very likely do need antibodies, but you will make them. T-cells are an integral part of the antibody system.

The T-cell studies show two things: long-term memory and they are suggestive of cross-immunity. But until the UCL study we didn’t know how good that cross-immunity would be– it might have just been “opsonizing”. But it turned out to be neutralizing which is the best case scenario.

It’s also important to be clear on the logic. If you had just had the results of these T-cell studies and hardly any infections it would indeed be a gamble to rely on that (not that you have much choice). But what we actually have is a situation where in many places (Sweden, UK, NY are three examples) the epidemic has pretty clearly died out due to herd immunity but serology studies looking for very SARS2-specific antibodies are showing anywhere between 5% and 20%. How do we explain the apparent contradiction? Cross-immunity is the missing piece of the puzzle, and we have good evidence that it exists and is effective.

90470 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #117 of 1033 🔗

Thanks! (I didn’t bother to open the BuzzFeed link, can’t be bothered with US argy bargy.)

90595 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bruno, 2, #118 of 1033 🔗

Personally, when it comes to this stuff, I just hang around till guy explains it to me.

90162 ▶▶ ted, replying to swedenborg, 4, #119 of 1033 🔗

Sigh. I was loathe to open the Buzzfeed link, and was instantly rewarded with the usual political posturing from that site. T-cells are now a right wing conspiracy, they report.

90174 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to swedenborg, 3, #120 of 1033 🔗

News, research etc. relating to T cell immunity have been appearing at a steady rate over the last couple of months, ever since the first findings published in early June (I think) but not much coverage in the mainstream media as far as I know.

A reply to one of James Todaro’s tweets ( https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD ) made me laugh out loud, as it mirrors my own feelings precisely:

so any good/positive news on COVID is now labeled “right wing”, lol? ok, liberals….this is exactly why a lifelong liberal such as myself has pretty much had it with y’all.

90273 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, 2, #121 of 1033 🔗

The buzzfeed is a seriously egregious piece of “journalism”!

90057 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 17, #122 of 1033 🔗

People are dying to ”save the NHS”

90062 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 28, #123 of 1033 🔗

Speaking for myself, I want my tax money back and I’ll take my health elsewhere. Bollox to the NHS.

90070 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #124 of 1033 🔗

Same here, Nick

90476 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #125 of 1033 🔗

Yeah, can we get a discount for not using the NHS?

90091 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Major Panic, 10, #126 of 1033 🔗

No, people are just dying. The NHS never needed saving.

90149 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #127 of 1033 🔗

But the people did.

90058 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 18, #128 of 1033 🔗

Still Face Experiment Demonstrates Early Facial Recognition


Children are also experiencing distress from adults wearing masks . This short video demonstrates the role that facial expression plays in infant interaction. It’s called the “Still Face” experiment, which was first performed in 1975 by Edward Tronick, Ph.D., who continues to conduct research on how a mother’s stressful behavior may affect the emotional development of infants and children.

The study may be one of the most often-cited in developmental psychology. Further investigations into infants’ abilities to differentiate emotional expressions have revealed that within the first six months, babies learn to recognize emotion and distinguish physical characteristics associated with those emotions.

In one study, scientists found that babies spend more time looking at the mouth of an angry face just after hearing a happy voice. The researchers believe this is a reaction to hearing something different from what they’re seeing and that it may demonstrate the ability at an early age to understand emotional information based on what is heard and seen.

Educators have long known that many young children have difficulty when masks are worn. At some elementary schools masks aren’t allowed during Halloween, as the children become stressed. Kang Lee, Ph.D., from the University of Toronto, says that children don’t have full facial recognition abilities until they’re about 14 years old.

Until that time, children see individual features rather than the entire face. When adults and children use masks, it becomes more difficult for children to recognize individuals and understand emotional signals . This is especially difficult for children on the autism spectrum who often have trouble understanding and reading nonverbal cues.

Young children also look to their parents and caregivers to interpret new situations. This reliance on facial expressions and even tone of voice is distorted by a mask, and may make it challenging for them to regulate their response. Psychologists call this “social referencing” and it develops in children through the early preschool years.

90071 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Victoria, 17, #129 of 1033 🔗

A few years ago, I was in M&S. A Blind woman with a guide dog was walking through with her dog, the dog was behaving in a weird way and the woman didnt know why and looked distressed. I could see the dog looking at the mannequins which have only eyes, no features and the dog was actually trying to get behind the woman. I explained what was happening, she was grateful to be told what was happening as she said her dog, as they all are, is normally so good. Like the children, I wonder what animals think of the world now.

90077 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #130 of 1033 🔗

Yes, poor dogs…..I bet it is hard for some of them. I wouldn’t be surprised if more people are getting bitten by dogs.

I had a retriever once, we were walking down the street about pubs shutting times, and a guy we sort of knew started to mess about and act threatening towards us, he was pretty drunk. He was joking but his body language and tone of voice was strange. Our dog who was the most lovely animal ever instantly growled, bared teeth, raised hackles and got ready for a fight. I have never seen her do that before. That was interesting that was.

90165 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Two-Six, #131 of 1033 🔗

He wasn’t joking.

90080 ▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 7, #132 of 1033 🔗

As if any human being didn’t know.
Zombies are not human beings.
Zombies have Zombie children.

90280 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 3, #133 of 1033 🔗

Child abusive psy-op, with long-term serious consequences! Anyone who wears a face nappy is a collaborator.

90066 Cristi.Neagu, 22, #134 of 1033 🔗

Can you imagine that some people sat in a meeting and discussed if it’s better to risk a very small chance of infection with COVID followed by a subsequent small chance of death, or if it’s better to 100% suffocate on the spot, and they decided that dying right then and there is better than 0.006% chance of dying from the virus?

If this were a just world, we wouldn’t be worrying about hospitals being filled to capacity. We’d be worried about prisons being filled to capacity, with all these criminally incompetent people in charge of the country

90067 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 62, #135 of 1033 🔗

The most common symptom of Covid-19 is that you feel just fine. A huge number of those now being absurdly listed as ‘infected’ with this disease are perfectly healthy. The spread of Covid-19 is based on two factors: 1. How dense the population is and 2. How dense the population is.

90074 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #136 of 1033 🔗

That’s given me a good laugh. I need it – been away for the last few days dealing with the disaster that is this year’s A Level results for son number 2!

90075 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #137 of 1033 🔗

Commiserations, we can only hope the dimwits running this show get their comeuppance sooner rather than later.

90076 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 15, #138 of 1033 🔗

My husband – a statistician – has challenged Williamson to come to the HoC, and take MPs through the algo, line-by-line.

90147 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #139 of 1033 🔗

Loud rumblings in the press about the A level farce.
I’ve been working in public exams for forty years and I knew exactly what was going to happen from the start.

90081 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 16, #140 of 1033 🔗

There was a link in a previous comments thread for From Behind Enemy Lines in which the really good point was made, that mask wearing in shops is actually the responsibilty of the store policy. Yes you can use the exemption card but that is still within store policy. The police are called if there is enough of a rucous about not adhering to store policy.

So it really does come down to voting with your wallet. If you have to go in and you do use your exemption pass/clause whatever, just get in get out. As has been happening strangely enough.

The first major retailer to realise this or enough customers calming saying no thanks I’ll take my money elsewhere, the less this will be enforced.

90176 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to mhcp, 4, #141 of 1033 🔗

I wonder if businesses will start to be more vocal once the Government isn’t paying them to furlough their employees anymore? Currently maybe they feel taking a stand will put them in an even more precarious position.

I remember a while ago (think it was mentioned on Toby’s blog) an interview with the head of a pub chain (can’t remember who, or which chain, but it wasn’t Wetherspoons) who was very sceptical and critical of the government’s policy – and the interviewer basically said, in as many words, “how can you say this sort of thing when the goverment is giving your business so much money?”

90205 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Drawde927, 6, #142 of 1033 🔗

Hugh Osmond

He stuck it to them, articulate and fearless

The interviewer didn’t know how to handle it

Him, Dolan and Luke Johnson are the biggest names from business that I am aware of who are declared sceptics

90248 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 3, #143 of 1033 🔗

Rocco Forte and I think the Yank rocket/electric car guy.

90257 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #144 of 1033 🔗

Ah, Elon Musk, yes. I would like them all to get together and jointly fund a Vote Leave style media campaign to get the Truth about the virus out there. It’s easy for me to say, but I like to think if I had spare tens of millions I would happily spend them in attempt to save humanity.

90285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #145 of 1033 🔗

Absolutely, me too.

You’d think they’d have started months ago, in self defence.

90395 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #146 of 1033 🔗

I did email Luke Johnson along these lines, got a somewhat non-commital response. Maybe they are doing something on the quiet.

It may be worth contacting the others to suggest the same thing

I wouldn’t expect any one person to fund or organise the whole thing, but it simply won’t work without someone underwriting the start of it to the tune of £££££

Without wishing to sound melodramatic, anyone who bungs in a lot of money, effort and risks reputation, and manages to make some things happen, will go down in history as a hero (hopefully).

90325 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 1, #147 of 1033 🔗

I may be more inclined to believe he is a sceptic of he stopped launching the 5G satellites.

90390 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Awkward Git, #148 of 1033 🔗

Well spotted ! He thinks it makes him look cool by being a bit of a rebel. He’s a showman.

90392 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to nat, 1, #149 of 1033 🔗

Yes, possibly not “sound”

90393 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Julian, #150 of 1033 🔗

I think he wants to be all things to all people. I big fake.

90397 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to nat, 4, #151 of 1033 🔗

Probably right. I get better vibes from Dolan and Johnson, don’t know much about Osmond but he spoke well when I heard him.

I think Sumption and Hitchens have been the most consistently eloquent advocates for the sceptic cause though.

90361 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Drawde927, #152 of 1033 🔗

That’s very good point. I’ve wondered that too. They’ve been bribed to comply with government policy. Hopefully the gloves will come off in October.

90085 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 25, #153 of 1033 🔗

Bit hit and miss out and about this morning.


  • Apart from my wife and I only 2 other unmuzzled in Tesco, 1 holding her exempt lanyard and card in front of her like a sacred object to deter vampires and one woman who had taken her mask off to talk on her mobile while shopping
  • only 1 person actually met my eye and he looked like he wanted to rip his mask off but hadn’t worked up the courage to do so yet. Rest would hurriedly look away and hope we never notice them looking
  • 9/10 were wearing the masks incorrectly, had it below their nose, had big gaps at the sides, had modified it so it only had 1 top strap that went around the head and the bottom was flapping free, were constantly fiddling with it, they were many dirty and sweaty and so on
  • still quite a few of those recalled KN95 Chinese knock-offs being used
  • Bensons for Beds duty manager was anal about mask wearing and the 2 m social distancing
  • everywhere was very very quiet but doesn’t make sense as cars on the road higher than it has been so people must just be driving round and round but going nowhere or popping across the border to Wales to do mask free shopping (few weeks ago the Welsh were coming to England for some freedom, now it’s the other way round. What a farce).


  • when challenged by the duty manager about not wearing a mask he backed down big time, got really apologetic when I explain that I was deaf (true) and he either took off his mask and spoke to me normally or get someone else unmasked to come over and speak to me
  • I asked if he knew that there were lots of exemptions under the law. He said company had told them to ask people about mask wearing but not “challenge” them – this lead on to me explaining that even the Government had advised not to do this, how easy it is to fall foul of the disability discrimination laws, laworfiction have a nice toolkit ready for people to follow to be able to take on and win against anyone who challenges them, personal fines bigger than for the company and so on
  • asked him in front of his 2 sidekicks that were working today if the company had given them a risk assessment for the mask wearing while dealing with customers as this was a major change in how they had to work, health and safety law says they must and that the people doing the job and to agree it is correct. They said no, no risk assessment shown them. Oh ho, Company broken the law, lucky I’m not a HSE Inspector isn’t it? I asked do they know why the company cannot give a risk assessment? they said no. Easy, there is no evidence that mask wearing works so it cannot be put into a formal risk assessment as a mitigation as there is no supporting evidence so the risks assessment is worthless, check it out for themselves.
  • Also asked them if the company had warned them about all the things things to look out for, max time to wear a mask, wash hands if they touch the mask, use soap and hot water not sanitiser as works better, used masks are classed as contaminated waste (they are under the PHE/NHS guidance I read last week, comes under COSHH as well), bacterial lung infections, mask mouth, headaches, low oxygen levels blah blah blah and they said no – oh ho company broken the law again, not looking good if I was an inspector really is it and as store duty manager he is now on the hook for not challenging the company and not ensuring his staff are adequately trained, getting worse and worse.
  • ditto for social distancing plus this is guideline and I have it in writing from the local council it is not law, not enforceable, they have no powers to enforce it and that central government has not supplied them any scientific research at any point to back-up any of the safety/health claims and that premises must be run using the health and safety legislation, not public health, so this comes full circle back to the risks assessments and proof needed for mitigations.
  • Tesco till supervisor heard me chatting to the checkout operator as she had explained that they had been told that mask wearing is totally voluntary but as she had been serving some oldies she put it on to put them at ease. I mentioned about the recalled KN95 mask notice and that some people were still using them – the lady at the next till for one – so supervisor asked me what this was about. Told her about the recall notice from HSE that was issued as they are being sold as PPE but they have no BS/EN certification and the Chinese had lied so billions have been recalled. She said she would tell everyone she saw wearing one about this and promptly went to chat to the lady in the other queue who looked shocked that things like this could happen.

Bit of a mixed outing really.

90092 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #154 of 1033 🔗

Good job you weren’t in an Asda with shopper Eve Whitty https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/asda-issues-new-face-mask-22524307

90100 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to arfurmo, 8, #155 of 1033 🔗

Amazing how the Mirror will publish that pro-narrative propaganda but won’t publish anything anti-narrative or controversial isn’t it.

90108 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to arfurmo, 9, #156 of 1033 🔗

The comments nearly made me need yet another new laptop! I really cannot believe the absolute ignorance of so many in the UK. How this country has even made it to 2020 baffles me.

90112 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to arfurmo, 14, #157 of 1033 🔗

Read the link – with that surname she’s not related to our CMO is she? Too much of a coincidence I guess?

Anyway thought I’d stir up trouble and sent the editor this:


Just read your “article” abiout a disgruntled shopper wanting ASDA to do more to enforce wearing a mask.

Totally pro-narrative and basically propoganda and psychological progarmming is all that it is.

How about printing something really important and doing some proper journalism and holding out totallitarian governemnt to acocunt for a change like my open letter to Boris Johnson:

(attached my letter here)

Or how about some of the proof that wearing a mask does not protect you or others :

(put in those studies from a few days ago).”

Not expecting much from them but what the hell.

90172 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to arfurmo, 15, #158 of 1033 🔗

My comment. Remember this is the Mirror, so have slanted it politically. There, I’m posting as “niccolo”.

Wow, so everybody must wear muzzles because some people are frightened of going out. I suggest, Ms Whitty, that you blame the MSM and the government for their unceasing propaganda for that. This corona epidemic, if indeed it ever actually reached that level, is over.

Masks, especially as we return to autumn and winter, will not help. They do not prevent the spread of any virus (read the box your masks come in), especially after half an hour or so wearing it, by which time the material is damp and as a consequence, ineffective. Mask wearing can even make matters worse if you are ill by increasing the viral load. When we exhale, we are expelling waste from our body. Catching it in a mask and inhaling it again is akin, and just as dangerous, as eating your own faeces.

I find it surprising that [the Mirror] supports an unnecessary intervention by a Tory government, to try and dig that Tory government out from a hole they dug for themselves.

Let’s see how badly it gets slagged off.

90278 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #159 of 1033 🔗

When commenting on the Daily Fail/Wail I like getting down votes, means I’m hitting a nerve and annoying the righteous.

90349 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, #160 of 1033 🔗

Always love it when someone goes off on one. Always a result.

90125 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #161 of 1033 🔗

Mixed for me as well on my usual Saturday food shopping. Seem to be more mask wearers on the streets but still only about 30% and I think most of those are wearing them for the shops and just keeping them on in between. I saw an alternative to the usual practice when not covering the face, namely move it up on to your greasy forehead rather than down to your sweaty chin. In my usual haunts the staff now recognise me, I’m probably “the guy with the exemption badge”. No hassle or dirty looks from anybody at all. I do take care to avoid invading people’s space. A few non-wearers in the shops, mostly oldies who may have become aware of exemptions but a few hopefully rebellious youngsters – we need more of them. Sainsbury’s shelf stackers mostly unmasked, but security and checkout staff masked.

90134 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #162 of 1033 🔗

You are my hero

90143 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sophie123, 8, #163 of 1033 🔗

Mine too.
Send us a million Awkward Gits!

90175 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 2, #164 of 1033 🔗

So long as they are on our side, I’m good with that.

90242 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 2, #165 of 1033 🔗

Send us a million Awkward Gits!

In my weak moments, I pity them. Then I remember – they’re trying to govern us…”

90288 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to annie, 4, #166 of 1033 🔗

Wife says one of me is more than enough.

More than that and we’ll probably destroy the world.

90251 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #167 of 1033 🔗

Great stuff. I see where you get your moniker from!

90294 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #168 of 1033 🔗

Good work! Several more enlightened people about now. Hopefully they’ll talk to others ……

90481 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, #169 of 1033 🔗

Well done for your thorough evangelisation efforts on behalf of the Gospel of Lockdown Scepticism and Anti-Muzzle Wearing.

90086 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 41, #170 of 1033 🔗

I had upsets with 2 shopkeepers in two days. I try to be understanding and considerate, but as someone who has not been taken in by the propaganda, I sometimes forget.

I hardly go out anymore as it is so difficult to gage how to behave. In our area the numbers are and have been very low, and going to the market today, seeing a third of people walk about in the fresh air with face coverings gives me anxiety and makes me angry.
I can almost understand people who go along with it as it is easier. But every fibre in me screams NO!

90106 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Silke David, 9, #171 of 1033 🔗

I haven’t been into town or shops since mask day, one or two if I really had to go in them.
The world is suddenly full of Charlies.

90652 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Two-Six, 1, #172 of 1033 🔗

Prince Charlies.

90123 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Silke David, 19, #173 of 1033 🔗

That’s because every fibre in you is correct:

World’s Top Epidemiologists – Masks Don’t Work!


Instead of ordering people to “mask-up” under penalty of fines or jail time, scientists and public health officials should get back to playing their most important role: developing sound research on which people can freely make informed decisions.”

90181 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #174 of 1033 🔗

Freely. Oh, for the days. Hopefully soon.

90141 ▶▶ annie, replying to Silke David, 10, #175 of 1033 🔗

Every fibre in you is sane.
Just keep away.I do.

90299 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Silke David, #176 of 1033 🔗

Just “going along” inside is one thing but sporting them outside when not mandated is something else entirely.

90855 ▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to Silke David, 2, #177 of 1033 🔗

Anger and anxiety – pretty much how I’ve felt since house arrest began.

90087 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #178 of 1033 🔗

There was some discussion about the Tory manifesto and covid in recent BTL on the previous blog. So I decided to check out the key points and see if they are on track.

Here’s what I found, mostly from a beeb article but some from the DT. Read from under my cynic’s hat, some made me laugh out loud – though they’re not at all funny under the circumstances.

On the whole I’d say they’re pretty much on track – though I’m not keen on where it’s heading:

  • the Chancellor, has promised the biggest spending increase in 15 years
  • cut national insurance by £460 a year for millions of taxpayers.
  • Increase the number of nurses by 50,000
  • get Brexit “done” in January
  • several billion a year of extra spending,
  • Pensions will rise by at least 2.5% per year
  • No-one will sell their home to pay for care
  • Reach net zero by 2050
  • £6.3bn on 2.2 million disadvantaged homes
  • Introduce a points-based immigration system
  • Continue the roll out of universal credit
  • Create 250,000 extra childcare places
  • Freeze of tuition fees
  • top of the Tories’ transport list is a promise to build a new rail line linking Manchester and Leeds.
  • and by singling-out funding of £2bn for potholes and a further £29bn for roads, the Conservatives are more at ease than the other main parties in reaffirming their commitment to the car as a predominant mode of transport.
  • look into the constitutional power balance


No mention of all the new hospitals, though they probably assume the nightingales have covered that.

90114 ▶▶ hat man, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #179 of 1033 🔗

What’s a ‘disadvantaged home’? One with half a roof?

90168 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #180 of 1033 🔗

look into the constitutional power balance ” They’ve certainly done this one

90089 Northern Chubs, replying to Northern Chubs, 28, #181 of 1033 🔗

Lockdown Sceptics is great, but even that didn’t escape my complete withdrawal from anything news based. It’s pretty good. I feel a lot better. I recommend it to everyone.

But after nine days, I thought I’d take a peek back at the world and discover New Zealand gulags, St John’s Ambulance assassination techniques and government manipulation and mismanagement of covid-1984 data.

So it’s at least as mad as nine days ago. I’m not surprised, just a little sad that the world is still grossly insane. I’ll try 18 days now.

90103 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Northern Chubs, 7, #182 of 1033 🔗

Every day in every way you are getting better and better.

90093 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 13, #183 of 1033 🔗

As a small business in the stricken travel industry, can I please ask kindly for a few moments of you time to sign this letter to Sunak and Shapps:


90101 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 2, #184 of 1033 🔗


90116 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, #185 of 1033 🔗

Thank you

90130 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Sarigan, #186 of 1033 🔗

Also signed

90137 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Sarigan, #187 of 1033 🔗


90140 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 2, #188 of 1033 🔗

We are behind you in your courageous battle against such odds.

90146 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to Sarigan, #189 of 1033 🔗


90171 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Sarigan, #190 of 1033 🔗

Done 👍

90180 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, #191 of 1033 🔗

Done, happy to support a fellow small business-owner.

90184 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sarigan, #192 of 1033 🔗

Done, with pleasure.

90187 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Sarigan, #193 of 1033 🔗


90274 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, #194 of 1033 🔗


90312 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, #195 of 1033 🔗


90374 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sarigan, #196 of 1033 🔗

Done. Best of luck to you

90486 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, #197 of 1033 🔗


90096 DRW, replying to DRW, 15, #198 of 1033 🔗

Paying for an epidemic of stupidity: http://archive.vn/KbXGG
“We’ve handed control of our lives to a clown car packed with idiots who have wasted billions trying to defeat this virus. They will never admit it was all for nothing.”

90107 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to DRW, 13, #199 of 1033 🔗

Australia 450 deaths from Covid. Economy crashed to the tune of $450 billion…..easy to do the math on that one

90132 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to T. Prince, 7, #200 of 1033 🔗

Every one’s a billionaire!

90716 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to IanE, #201 of 1033 🔗

But they can’t spend it.

90185 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, 3, #202 of 1033 🔗

We’ve got a clown car packed with idiots in the UK too!! In fact, we seem to have three all at once!!

90353 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #203 of 1033 🔗

Indeed, for an aussie-centric article it speaks some universal truths.

90615 ▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 1, #204 of 1033 🔗

Most of the comments on the above article are refreshing!y sceptical. But how about this prime bit of bullshit?

‘Basic statistical fact: the virus takes, on average, one year off the life of everyone on the planet, in every age group.’


90627 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, #205 of 1033 🔗

I’ll wait for someone who knows maths better than I do to deal with this one, but even using some very generous figures for life expectancy, I’m getting a number closer to 3 days.

90653 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #206 of 1033 🔗

According to who? W.H.O.?

90098 Tophattingson, replying to Tophattingson, #207 of 1033 🔗

For anyone here that prefers reddit over forums, there is a new anti-lockdown UK-focused subreddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/ukantilockdown/

90164 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tophattingson, 1, #208 of 1033 🔗

Just had a quick look at it. It’s very light on the concept of free speech, with the usual “forum rules” militating against it. Not for me, I’m afraid.

90350 ▶▶▶ Tophattingson, replying to Tenchy, #209 of 1033 🔗

If you have something related to lockdown which you feel the present ruleset would make difficult to discuss, feel free to bring it up at any time. The ruleset is intended to minimise off-topic discussions or users raging at each-other, not to get in the way of relevant topics.

90102 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 13, #210 of 1033 🔗

Can anyone from NZ explain why the toothy one is so popular? To me she always looks a bit ……mad

90104 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to T. Prince, 3, #211 of 1033 🔗

And anorexic

90129 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Two-Six, 3, #212 of 1033 🔗

Tyrantosaurus Ano. Rex !

90159 ▶▶ Mark, replying to T. Prince, 5, #213 of 1033 🔗

Telegenic “progressive” “minority” media darling presumably. Positive discrimination on steroids. Not the first and certainly won’t be the last around the world.

90161 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to T. Prince, 1, #214 of 1033 🔗

Somebody said she’s a protege of Tony Blair. Can’t remember where I read it – I’ve read so many things – getting tired…

90223 ▶▶ Basics, replying to T. Prince, 5, #215 of 1033 🔗

She’s chosen by the globalist cabal. A witchcraft of careful marketing would have got her to the place she is now. That and the tailored fit to a nudged NZ population. That’s my best guess, cannot say I’ve followed the rise to the extraordinary abuse of power.

90235 ▶▶ TyRade, replying to T. Prince, 2, #216 of 1033 🔗

solid support from the cannibal community

90654 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TyRade, -1, #217 of 1033 🔗

Let us hope that she ends up on their supper menu one day.

90105 Phoneutria, replying to Phoneutria, 22, #218 of 1033 🔗

I would like to know why Boris and the other idiots in government continue with this lunacy. Individually there are some clever people, not least Boris himself, with his upper second in Classics. But collectively they are as astute as a lobotomised earthworm.

it seems more than obvious that the disease is over and there is good evidence to show it won’t come back in any meaningful way. So why carry on trashing the economy and destroying the lives of young people forever? Here are few possibilities.

Incompetence. Probably the most likely.

Doubling down on irrational, pointless restrictions in an effort to convince voters that earlier irrational, pointless restrictions had some validity. My personal favourite.

Because all the other major European Leaders are headless chickens, Boris has to be one as well. Ignoring Sweden, of course, which is the only beacon of hope discernible in this madness.

Pandering to the masses, all with the mindset of Private Fraser, who seem to think that C19 is another Black Death and we’re screwed unless a vaccine comes along pdq. This isn’t leadership in any meaningful sense.

They’ve all bought shares in companies making face nappies. Not entirely frivolous on that.

Fear of making a wrong decision and that letting everyone go back to normal would indeed cause a spike in deaths. We should also hold onto our armchairs in case gravity fails and we float off into space and, again, demonstrating zero leadership.

Do they have an exit plan at all? If so, let’s hear it. Oppressive silence continues….

90113 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Phoneutria, 19, #219 of 1033 🔗

The fact that this charade is a world wide ‘phenomenon’ makes it seem more like a plan. Nothing makes any sense anymore

90118 ▶▶ John Stone, replying to Phoneutria, 6, #220 of 1033 🔗

Because they spend all their time grovelling to Bill Gates.

90120 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Phoneutria, 6, #221 of 1033 🔗

The Bumbling Boris Buffoon is being shepherded along by a leading member of the British Communist Party – so some are certainly achieving their goals…


90163 ▶▶ matt, replying to Phoneutria, 16, #222 of 1033 🔗

My money’s on incompetence throughout, failure of courage and leadership at the beginning and your last point about fear of getting it wrong now. There’s no reason to believe that lockdown restrictions worked, that the disease has many people left to kill, that it has unusually appalling long-term effects, that masks make any difference at all, or that there will be a second wave – but there’s a non-zero chance of all of these things. Therefore, stopping trying to manage the country like all of those things are true risks things going wrong and Boris being blamed. He’s paralysed by fear.

The moron.

90166 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 9, #223 of 1033 🔗

I find it hard to believe that at least some of them are not paralysed by fear, other than fear of being found out to have over-reacted and doubled down.

I know they might not be the brightest bunch, but it’s not that hard to understand the dangers are nothing like what was predicted. I’m sure some of them are very well aware of the truth, and of what they are doing, but they like the power, the attention, and want to hang on to all of that for as long as possible.

They have taken every opportunity to increase the fear and panic, not the opposite.

And I am sure SAGE, independent SAGE, and the various other pseudo-scientific and pseudo-medical bodies know very well it’s all BS.

90173 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 5, #224 of 1033 🔗

Not fear of the dangers of the virus, fear of being held to account if anything goes wrong. You can make a very strong case based on the emerging evidence that the virus is petering out, will become endemic and wasn’t anywhere near as much of a problem as we were led to believe in the first place and (in my opinion) a much weaker case based on the evidence of the opposite. Nonetheless, as I say, there’s a non-zero chance that it’s the second way.

90201 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 7, #225 of 1033 🔗

Fear of being held to account if anything goes wrong, yes, makes sense.

Trouble is, things HAVE gone HUGELY wrong and continue to do so, but they either don’t notice or don’t care. Probably because no-one is holding them to account.

I struggle to accept that there are not a substantial number of MP including Cabinet ministers who have a fair idea they’ve messed up big time and they ought to stop now.

90224 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, 4, #226 of 1033 🔗

Watch Cummings’s Rose Garden interview again. Towards the end, a journalist asks if he thinks he’s made mistakes. An expression passes over his face, very briefly, before he says something like yes, he’s sure there have been mistakes. He knew then, 25 May. Which means Johnson did, no wonder he looks the way he does now. Which means quite a few more know they’ve messed up, big time. Probably wishing they’d either stuck with a modified herd immunity strategy, or lifted lockdown sooner.

90252 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bruno, 3, #227 of 1033 🔗

They MUST Reap what have sown.

90315 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #228 of 1033 🔗

“ Trouble is, things HAVE gone HUGELY wrong and continue to do so“
Yes, but they think they’re getting away with those things

90389 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 1, #229 of 1033 🔗

Indeed. They are getting away with them, for now. I’m no great lover of the current Labour Party, or any of the others for that matter, but if we assume the majority of sceptics are on the right (I may be wrong and wish in no way to detract from our brother and sister sceptics who consider themselves to be on the “left”) then if we desert the Tories in droves, and they lose the next election, it MIGHT lead to some positive changes.

90178 ▶▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to Julian, 12, #230 of 1033 🔗

I think that governments are collectively in a state of mass psychosis.

They are now in so deep that psychologically they have to believe their own propaganda. The big problem is that they are trying to play an impossible role: protecting humanity from a virus is like trying to hold back the waves. But it’s a role they cannot now get out of easily.

In the UK I believe that they know that performance so far has been shambolic. So they are now praying that they can look good by having a better result relative to everyone else when the alleged second wave comes. It’s madness but I can see why that would motivate them.

Reality is that there are no good outcomes. The virus is not good and I am not desperate to catch it. On the other hand, hiding for ever just means that the sands of life run out, given that death will always come eventually anyway. It does seem that the virus has run its course, and we need to stop hiding. Life always involves navigating a portfolio of risks: this virus is now just one more of those.

Am planning to read Barbara Tuchman’s The March of Folly about past errors by governments in history. It might give some insight as well.

90200 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Stephen, 3, #231 of 1033 🔗

Maybe most of them believe it. I don’t know anyone who’s been in that kind of role personally to know whether they are deluded or cynical. It seems improbable they can all be so deluded, but maybe power does funny things to people.

90660 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Stephen, #232 of 1033 🔗

Have you also read ‘The Proud Tower’, the ‘Guns of August’ or ‘A Distant Mirror’?

90197 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Phoneutria, 11, #233 of 1033 🔗

Incompetence, and terror of being seen as “uncaring”. You could see that earlier in the year when they were visibly shaken over PPE and the hysterical reaction to herd immunity. They were bricking it and had no idea what to do. I’m afraid this is always a problem when you pick yes wo/men as your cabinet, and yes wo/men as your advisers.

There won’t be an exit plan. They blundered into this through a mix of panicked firefighting, vague threats from the continent (especially Micron), and WHO “advice”. When you’re jumping around with no clear plan of action, the exit strategy is the last thing on your mind. Unfortunately for us.

90203 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #234 of 1033 🔗

Why would they want an exit plan? What’s in it for them?

90234 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 8, #235 of 1033 🔗

Well at some point they have to halt the downward plunge and cut their losses. Otherwise it carries on until they hit the absolute bottom, which in political terms involves former leaders hanging upside down from lamp posts.

Though with zeros like the present political elite (all parties), it’s possible the exit plan is just “cling on, hope for the best, and pray everyone forgets what they’ve done when we are all trying to deal with the fallout”.

90249 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #236 of 1033 🔗

I think the reckoning won’t come for definite until we get nearer the next election. They will want some money in the coffers to buy votes to keep them in power, assuming that simply having saved us from the virus won’t be sufficient. But given that banjaxing the economy is what most other rich countries are also doing, they might get away with it.

90254 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mark, 3, #237 of 1033 🔗

Yes, beginning to think there may be a ‘Ceausescu moment’ although without the summary execution probably. Boris outside No10 realising that sound is not, after all, the applause of a grateful nation.

90497 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #238 of 1033 🔗

I think the exit plan will be forced by an angry populace. While I’m having a hard time getting certain colleagues to stop looking at the MSM and start asking difficult questions they do agree that rioting is a definite possibility as the unemployment and bankruptcy rates go up.

90297 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Phoneutria, 7, #239 of 1033 🔗

Global Reset. Pre-planned. Just ask the World Economic Forum.

90309 ▶▶ Drummerman, replying to Phoneutria, 6, #240 of 1033 🔗

Re your comment, ‘not least Boris himself, with his upper second in Classics’ … Enoch Powell was awarded a double-starred first in Classics, from Cambridge, and taught himself to speak Urdu, Welsh, Portuguese …. Boris isn’t in the same league and he’s showing it.

90316 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Drummerman, 4, #241 of 1033 🔗

Youngest professor in the commonwealth at the outbreak of WWII and the only person to be promoted all the way from private soldier to general officer in the course of the war. Whatever else he might have been, he was not stupid.

90429 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Phoneutria, 2, #242 of 1033 🔗

Sorry, upper 2nd in Classics, that is quite a low bar, LOL

90111 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 3, #243 of 1033 🔗

Any chance of you running for PM!!! Only common sense I’ve read in nearly six months…

90368 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to John Ballard, #244 of 1033 🔗

John, who are you referring you here?

90121 swedenborg, 12, #245 of 1033 🔗


Panama stopped HCQ when WHO warned about it. Then reinstated it. Striking that deaths fall before cases. But this is from a banana republic. Although also from Costa Rica same picture with HCQ(not so much banana republic having the best social system in Latin America and a non lockdown country).
Nothing for BBC as this is a discredited drug.

90124 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 33, #246 of 1033 🔗

There is a happy land – not so far away……… watching TV World Snooker and there are spectators, cheering, shouts of come on Ronnie and no masks, in the football field next to our house they are getting ready for another village football match, if it is like last week then here too there will be spectators, cheering and no masks. You can terrorise some of the people all the time and all the people some of the time but you cannot terrorise all the people all of the time. I do start to feel that a sector of our society and perhaps not the sector you might have expected, have realised that ‘the Emperor has no clothes on’ and are having no more of it. We just need some of the media to pick up on this and start to question the Covid hoo-haa and we might start to see a slight change? ………….. we live in hope.

90133 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 12, #247 of 1033 🔗

Yes, never lose hope. Live, breathe, think normal.

90151 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve Martindale, 11, #248 of 1033 🔗

Not wanting to put a downer on the hopey stuff, but:

Ronnie O’Sullivan criticises ‘irresponsible’ decision to allow crowds into final
Of course being a great game player doesn’t mean you can’t be a functionally thick conformist as well..

90202 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 3, #249 of 1033 🔗

When I switched on before the match started, the cameras were filming O’Sullivan arriving at the Crucible. Wearing his mask. It was obviously him, so he wasn’t wearing it to hide from fans.

90718 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Mark, #250 of 1033 🔗

I think these high earning athletes/entertainers are more susceptible to getting in line with the official narrative, after all, they have pretty excellent lives and probably fear death more than any of us regular folks. They’re living the good life and we must all put our lives on hold to protect them further.

90155 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #251 of 1033 🔗

The  Criterium du Dauphine is on ITV4. Admittedly some spectators have masks but most don’t. All the motorhomes, some with UK plates, can be seen roadside. Everybody is there just to admire supreme road cyclists-just as they normally do. The Tour de France is next and hopefully people watching will remember what a good time can be had with a naked face.

90127 DRW, replying to DRW, 7, #252 of 1033 🔗

I’ve been trying to keep my thoughts up by planning for a June 2021 holiday, when we’ll be hopefully back to the real normal. Sadly I once naively thought we would be by this June but if we’re still in this dystopian nightmare by then I really will be finished.

90139 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to DRW, 10, #253 of 1033 🔗

Let me know if I can help with the planning. Discounts for all sceptics!

90199 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Sarigan, 5, #254 of 1033 🔗

Not after any discount, but perhaps you could publish your firm’s website address? Happy to support any ‘normal’ businesses for future travel plans.

90226 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, 2, #255 of 1033 🔗

Would be good to give us a way to contact you (iirc you have given out an email address before, but I didn’t note it down at the time). I’m not planning any foreign trips in the near future, and my kids do their own stuff these days, but if and when I might be looking to do so I’d want to give my business to a sceptical travel agent, and you’re it as far as I’m aware, basically.

90228 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark, 3, #256 of 1033 🔗

I can be reached at offlands@protonmail.com and from there can provide full contact details etc.

90277 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, #257 of 1033 🔗

I’ll make a note of that this time…

90500 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, #258 of 1033 🔗

Have noted it. Thanks a lot

90145 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to DRW, 9, #259 of 1033 🔗

Okey dokey – prediction: 2nd Lockdown in the Winter 2020 due to panicked incompetence, government will fall in Spring due to popular discontent, we’ll have a strong, no-nonsense leader rising from the ashes – and the country will be picking itself out of the ruins in Summer 2021 – so go for it – plan your holiday for June. My wife and I are. If you can survive this Winter, you’ll be ok.

90167 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #260 of 1033 🔗

I sincerely hope that you are right 👍

90209 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #261 of 1033 🔗

Not convinced there will be another full lockdown. That was a one shot, last ditch attempt that clearly failed. Not even local lockdowns we’re having now are anywhere near as strict as the one we suffered from the 23rd March.

90313 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #262 of 1033 🔗

I suspect the economic depression with overshadow any lockdown.

90344 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #263 of 1033 🔗

My thoughts – they just can’t afford another one. I think this is one reason – perhaps the main reason – why they’re shoving the decision making powers onto local authorities.

90148 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to DRW, 6, #264 of 1033 🔗

We were hoping to plan an around the world trip but our fascist government and other EU leaders have something else planned for us!

90131 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #265 of 1033 🔗

This total death data from Sweden week 1-21 of age >70  according to home care, institutional care or those not belonging to these groups is very revealing. 2020 weeks clear excess due to C-19 deaths except in fit > 70 living at home without help. This has been discussed before that fit > 70 might not have that high mortality of C-19.


90287 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to swedenborg, 2, #266 of 1033 🔗

I don’t know about Sweden but the average life expectancy for someone going into a UK care home is only 2-3 years anyway. Which is why it can be unwise to follow financial “advisers'” pleas to sink their assets into purchasing annuities, to pay their fees.

90135 swedenborg, 7, #267 of 1033 🔗


“A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers”
Then the letter of the authors 2020 in light of the C-19 epidemic published 30 th March


This is important as a RCT which showed 2015 that cloth masks was dangerous and not effective for HCW. The authors response 5 years later clearly warn HCW to use cloth masks. If this was not good for HCW how can it be useful for the general public?

90136 Fred, replying to Fred, 9, #268 of 1033 🔗

Sutton Hoo, to my memory from about 10 years ago, has a public footpath running right past the mounds anyway. I suspect one could have wandered along it, and made a detour to see mre of the mounds, at any time during the illegal lockdown and done so totally unopposed. If indoor stuff isn’t open there’s no point prebooking a all, park round the corner, walk the footpath, there is f* all that the high-vis hitlers can do.

90179 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Fred, 10, #269 of 1033 🔗

What would King Raedwald have thought about this Woe of Britain? What curse afflicts his once-proud Anglian warrior-race? In the face of a mere malady, they have become laggards in courage, weapon-droppers and shield-huggers. Truly, he weeps with fury in the Hall of his Ancestors…

90211 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #270 of 1033 🔗

I feel like there should at least be some catapult flinging of plague and pox ridden severed heads, but perhaps that is an art of a different era.

90220 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mr Dee, #271 of 1033 🔗

Some of us still have swords (and shields, as a matter of fact), at least….

90253 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mark, 3, #272 of 1033 🔗

I’ve got a nice spiked flail (true!). I think we’ve got enough volunteers for an army now…

90271 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mr Dee, #273 of 1033 🔗

I actually collect antique swords. Probably got about 100 or so, but not all in a usable state.

90317 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #274 of 1033 🔗

Better than pitchforks?

90347 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, #275 of 1033 🔗

Mostly. At least, after 20 mins with a belt sander. Have to be a damned good reason for it, though……

90232 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Fred, 1, #276 of 1033 🔗

We went there last year. TBH we were very disappointed. Overrated!

90160 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Bella Donna, 12, #278 of 1033 🔗

Poor Didier Raoult ,the HCQ doctor from Marseilles. He was frozen out of the medical establishment in France, received death threats from Gilead reportedly. His idea of early HCQ was taken up in the Southern Mediterranean countries. And look at their death rates compared to France and Belgium.

90183 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to swedenborg, 5, #279 of 1033 🔗

The death rates in African nations are also stunningly low, though they do tend to have far younger populations than Western nations.

90192 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #280 of 1033 🔗

What happened in Morocco? Did they go crazy like we did? Total lockdown and bastard masks every where? I know Morocco fairly well, I might have to go and live there. I think they did go covid crazy too didn’t they?

90229 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Two-Six, 5, #281 of 1033 🔗

They used Hydroxychloroquine! It works if used at the beginning of the illness and not when the patient is gasping his last breath!

90156 Hivemind, replying to Hivemind, 2, #282 of 1033 🔗

Would you please put a warning when a site is behind a paywall. I wanted to read the article in the Australian, but it wanted money.


90318 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hivemind, #283 of 1033 🔗

Or pull out some relevant quotes.

90158 swedenborg, 6, #284 of 1033 🔗


Also an important study just published in full print (earlier in preprint not peer reviewed) in Science

“A mathematical model reveals the influence of population heterogeneity on herd immunity to SARS-CoV-2

Herd immunity is now hot stuff in the US politics so appreciate that Project Fear/Big Pharma has not blocked it. They discuss reduced herdimmunity,anathema for Fauci et al

90170 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 16, #285 of 1033 🔗

A majority of the people voted for Brexit. They were sick of being told how to live by the European Parliament. Now, you’re getting the same shit from your ‘let’s get Brexit done’ PM, Boris Johnson, and his ministers.

90193 ▶▶ Julian, replying to richard riewer, 6, #286 of 1033 🔗

Indeed. It’s perhaps a lesson that one should select leaders more on character than their declared policies. Not that there’s often an appealing choice.

90218 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 3, #287 of 1033 🔗

Ideally, we’d vote for a representative in local groups where things can be done on a human scale , and then all the elected representatives would get together somewhere and elect one from among themselves based on superior character and abilities, as well as policies, to lead them as first among equals.

.Now there’s radical conservatism (sic) for you…

90238 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #288 of 1033 🔗

I’m reminded of Hitchen’s answer to a question about democracy, in which he expressed some interest in the idea of a person having multiple votes, as outlined in the book “In the Wet” by Nevil Shute:

“Perhaps the most interesting (and enduring) feature of the book is the “multiple vote”, seen as a necessary reform of democracy . A person can have up to seven votes. Everyone gets a basic vote. Other votes can be earned for education (including a commission in the armed forces), earning one’s living overseas for two years, raising two children to the age of 14 without divorcing, being an official of a Christian church, or having a high earned income. The seventh vote, which in the book is awarded to David Anderson for his heroism, is only given at the Queen’s discretion by Royal Charter.
Plural voting was possible in Britain in the past. Until the late 1940s, the graduates of all British universities sent representatives to Parliament, and property owners could vote both where they lived and where they owned property; a university-educated property owner could therefore have three votes. The graduates of the National University of Ireland and of Trinity College are still represented in the upper house of Ireland’s parliament. Mark Twain had used the idea of multiple votes for merit in his short story “ The Curious Republic of Gondour “.”

90244 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, 7, #289 of 1033 🔗

You could indeed make an argument that all MPs should have had to do a minimum 4 year slog as a county or borough councillor before being allowed on a selection list. That would bring some of them nose to nose with the unglamorous reality of finances and local life they’ve never had to deal with before. Would cut out a few for whom it would be too boring, there’s a place for boring but competent in public life.

90269 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, 7, #290 of 1033 🔗

Mainly I’d just like to end political parties. All of them. Vote for a constituency representative based on competence, character and general attitudes, rather than trying to micromanage national government.

I tend to apply Adam Smith’s dictum about tradesmen to politicians when they organise:

People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public

90292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, 2, #291 of 1033 🔗

Which does sort of work right at the bottom of the local government tier, lots of Independents who are known to locals for running the cricket club, church choir, litter pick or whatever, nonparty affiliation. But it’s a real lottery in terms of getting people with appropriate skills.

90304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, 4, #292 of 1033 🔗

You don’t really need “appropriate skills” to be an MP, or even a government minister. That;’s what the civil service are for.

Obviously it’s handy to have experienced businessmen, doctors, professionals, civic leaders etc in the Commons, but hopefully those are the kinds of people that constituencies would mostly elect, given no party structure to shoehorn compliant tools into partisan seats.

Mainly it’s character and general good sense we should be looking for.

90328 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 2, #293 of 1033 🔗

People of character and common sense would ask for advice, then evaluate it according to their principles.

We have an arrogant buffoon planning to build a bridge between Scotland and Ireland and funding an unnecessary rail line, while existing necessary lines need urgent attention.

90357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #294 of 1033 🔗

I feel right now I could be persuaded to vote for a Competence Party, if the candidates had all got to show they’d had a proper job first and not made a mess of it!

90182 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 5, #295 of 1033 🔗

Shadowgate: Illusions of Conspiracy no more

The deep state data collection and use, opinion manipulation, the coup against Trump, the probable influence behind the George Floyd riots in the U.S. and UK, the defund the police narrative and who stands to benefit and profit, i.e. companies behind the AI replacement of law enforcement, backed by the UN and Interpol, i.e. robots and AI instead of police men and women.

This could very well be behind the whole global pandemic hysteria, and why government action across the globe makes no sense.
Toby doesn’t think there’s a conspiracy. I would suggest this documentary says otherwise, and who’s behind a lot of it.

I’m sure this video will be removed soon, so watch it while you can.
Oh, and the journalist who made this documentary has been arrested, along with her husband.

Short promo video:

90188 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lms23, #296 of 1033 🔗

What were the circumstances behind their arrest?

90298 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Victoria, #298 of 1033 🔗

Weaver is a familiar name , to longtime US regime watchers. Coincidence?

90291 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mr Dee, #299 of 1033 🔗

Not sure. She was told that a grand jury had agreed an indictment. She and her husband have apparently been charged with burglary, I would guess for possessing some documents or something.

90261 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lms23, 2, #300 of 1033 🔗

Just watched it.

Psychological warfare / get in people’s minds, what push their button / what drive them nuts, link to data such as health, social media, finance, know your darkest fears and sway their thoughts / more stuff in the news Fake or fabricated than true / predictive behavioural profiles using your details / etc

Censorship-resistant link

90267 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lms23, #301 of 1033 🔗

I don’t know about arrested, more like “disappeared” describes it better.

Hopefully they don’t get arkancided.

90376 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to Lms23, #302 of 1033 🔗

Thanks Lms2. That’s a brilliantly constructed documentary giving some context to what is happening around us.

90186 AMZ, 14, #303 of 1033 🔗


Best part “ Those young and healthy people who currently walk around with a mask on their faces would be better off wearing a helmet instead, because the risk of something falling on their head is greater than that of getting a serious case of Covid-19”

90189 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #304 of 1033 🔗

The Basel airport debacle.

“The Government’s incompetence is bottomless.”

It is not incompetence. Anyone who thinks there is no pattern to all of these decrees and diktats may like to take a few moments to realise tgat every aspect of this ‘incompetence’ just so happens to negatively affect people. Gavin Williamson, John Swinney, they both knew exactly the nature of the exam crash months ago. Both outcomes were allowed to reach breaking point with tears and no doubt self harm. Nothing incompetent about it. These are smart, clever people acting deliberately.

90191 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 11, #305 of 1033 🔗

The Basel thing might be incompetence, but it’s not all incompetence. It is cowardice, malicious vanity, lust for power, dishonest self-preservation. Human weakness, yes, but if you seek power and know your decisions affect lives then it’s arguably evil if you are knowingly making decisions not based on logic but on saving your own skin.

90198 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 5, #306 of 1033 🔗

Chance would say that at some point the random incompetence would favour people over authority. This has not occured.

90216 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Basics, #307 of 1033 🔗

I don’t know. I’m with Julian on this point, obviously, but I think you need to beware of confirmation bias on that.

90434 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark, #308 of 1033 🔗

Happy to keep an open mind. Aware of bias. I’m a simple person. Anything that I remotely did in the order of magnitude we have going on I would expect to be hung for. None of what I see is an error by an oh so good but hapless man/party. I am even quite surprise how some folk appear to hold out reluctance to accept there is intention behind the chaos. Even the plans tgey are unfolding and putting to action are long in the tooth.

90221 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, 7, #309 of 1033 🔗

I’m going with evil, which they are!

90471 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #310 of 1033 🔗

That’s my impression, too. Evil is loose and on the rampage. Pure evil, with corrupt and stupid humans as its agents.
Fight it. Doesn’t matter how, just fight it. Never give in.’It is very hard for evil to take hold of the unconsenting soul.’ (Ursula K. Le Guin))

90474 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, 1, #311 of 1033 🔗

I think they are acting deliberately, I don’t think they are either smart or clever

90833 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, #312 of 1033 🔗

I mean in the sense they are smart and clever enough to understand the consequences of their actions.

They are not dimwits.

90190 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 17, #313 of 1033 🔗

This is now getting a bit sick:


Aside from the actor imploring young people ‘not to kill his mom’ by going out and enjoying themselves, it is laced with misinformation from Canadian politicians implying that young people are/will die in the thousands.

They are over-egging this in the extreme – desperate, and it will backfire!

90194 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #314 of 1033 🔗

Ready and willing the back fire. These names of folk I’ve never heard of hopefully will be remembered by their audience. An actor thinking so much of their fame get involved in health matters does no improve their King Lear. Desperation yes.

90204 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 14, #315 of 1033 🔗

I’d say I’m embarrassed to be a Canadian, but I’d be embarrassed to be just about any nationality other than Swedish right now. Ugh!

90219 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 8, #316 of 1033 🔗

For the first time I am embarrassed to be British!

90241 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #317 of 1033 🔗

Don’t be embarrassed about being British – be embarrassed for all of these people going along with this nonsense for being un-British.

90255 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #318 of 1033 🔗

Our government is the pits! I wish we could overthrow it! We don’t deserve such utter fools!

90377 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #319 of 1033 🔗

By definition – they’re British.

90233 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #320 of 1033 🔗

Spot on from Portugal

90666 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #321 of 1033 🔗

I saw a government sponsored Canadian Ad around a month ago about a young man around 21 who claimed that he had Covid-19. He urged everybody to follow the government’s guidelines. We paid for that public service ad.

90196 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 29, #322 of 1033 🔗

God, I have bloody heard it all now. Load of punters just turned up and they wanted to move one of my outside tables further into the park to get away from other customers on a nearby table (which is already about 6′ away). When will this effing insanity end. They are now hosing themselves down with the evil gunk and sporting lovely flowery face masks. I tell you, it won’t be long before I lose it!

90208 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 11, #323 of 1033 🔗

Ask them if they want you to relocate the table to the local park where herds of wildebeast sweep majectically across the, whatever! Just wow! Basil Faulty was ahead of his time! How do you cope?

90250 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Basics, 5, #324 of 1033 🔗

What did you expect to see from a Torquay hotel bedroom window? 😀

90667 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #325 of 1033 🔗

Basil Fawlty?

90210 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 10, #326 of 1033 🔗

You should say, “See that bench over there, across the park, go and sit there. Cheers!”

90215 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Two-Six, 16, #327 of 1033 🔗

Well, I’ve just had a flowery mask-wearer arse-ache because I’ve closed for the day and she couldn’t get in. She thought it was terrible that she couldn’t get a coffee. I agreed it was terrible that we had closed, I mean I’ve only been on my feet now for ten hours. What a bloody lazy git I am. God, some buggers really need a problem ….

90243 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to kh1485, 4, #328 of 1033 🔗

Didnt you know she was coming? .. Hadnt you planned for it? Hey you could be PM

90339 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 3, #329 of 1033 🔗

We had a prat turn up as we were locking up one evening,he was most put out that we wouldn’t re-open especially for him,’I couldn’t get here sooner,I’ve been at work all day’ was his response,I was very pleased when one of my staff turned to him and said ‘we’ve been at bloody work all day too and we are bloody going home now’ !.

90511 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, #330 of 1033 🔗

I usually get that at work – huffing and puffing just as we’re shutting down visitor entrance area or have shut down and then angry that they’ve missed last entry. Then try to argue with me: “but your museum closes at half past five so why can’t you let me in?” I would reply “However last entry was quarter past four and its now quarter to five so sorry mate.”

90629 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #331 of 1033 🔗

Why not let them in for 45 minutes ?

90225 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to kh1485, 5, #332 of 1033 🔗

Glad I have a job where I don’t have to deal with the general public or fuckwit oxygen thieves as I nickname them.

Lucky escape for me not taking on pub/restaurant in March so the son could get his act together learning how to be a proper head chef/owner/restauranteur.

Maybe when this is all over, one day.

90231 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #333 of 1033 🔗

Sorry, don’t mean to sound like a total misanthrope but the general public are trying at the best of times and the COVID crap adds a whole new dimension of stress … We were two staff down today and no-one cuts you any bloody slack …

90266 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to kh1485, 6, #334 of 1033 🔗

Don’t apologise, a good rant works wonders – especially when the general public are involved.

Just when you think you’ve seen it all your re proved wrong.

90356 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 1, #335 of 1033 🔗

Gibbs’ Rule No 6: Never say you’re sorry, it’s a sign of weakness.

90207 Mr Dee, 13, #336 of 1033 🔗

“We are so outnumbered there’s only one thing to do. We must attack.”

Sir Andrew Cunningham, First Sea Lord, 1943-1946

90212 TyRade, replying to TyRade, 11, #337 of 1033 🔗

Covid ate my homework – a teaching moment
Struck me that there are three lessons from the school exam results ‘crisis’ (you won’t see reported in the MSM):

  1. ‘Teenagers did not get what they think they deserved’. Welcome to the real world. Life is not fair. A life lesson, then.
  2. Teachers have congenitally overegged estimates of results for decades. Now there is “institutional bias’ for you, right there.
  3. ‘I got more than one grade worse than teacher told me’. Welcome to the world of statistics. Harsh that you should discover there’s a second moment to statistical distributions (the standard deviation) as well as a first (the average, downgrade in this case). But since you’d never learn in school that the world is more than averages, at least you get it now (good and hard).
90227 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to TyRade, 9, #338 of 1033 🔗


Jeremy Clarkson did his usual “well, I got three ‘U’s and I did OK” spiel and then he added “and I didn’t need the government to give me three ‘A’s either”

90331 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to TyRade, 1, #339 of 1033 🔗

It strikes me that if they also are intent on personally holding Boris responsible for their marks, maybe they don’t deserve them if they can’t do the slightest bit of research to find out who *actually* graded and moderated the marks.

90463 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to TyRade, 3, #340 of 1033 🔗

I’m not with you on this, I think our people have been badly let down in all this. And if I was downgraded simply because my school had performed badly, I’d feel life was unfair. At least if they’d sat the exams, there would be some sort of levelling justice.

90213 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 19, #341 of 1033 🔗

Reading yesterday’s piece about world leaders all following each other reminded me of the children’s TV quiz game back in the day, called Runaround. The young quizzers indicated their answer by running across the studio to an area commensurate with their answer. They then had a second opportunity to confirm their answer having noted where everyone else ended up. Needless to say it was very common for the children to move to the place where the majority were. Only the bravest stayed where they were. If I remember rightly those who retained their independent thinking were Swedish but I may have made that last bit up….

90240 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Fiat, 4, #342 of 1033 🔗

Boris Johnson is Mike Reid.

90340 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Fiat, 3, #343 of 1033 🔗

The Government’s reactions seem more like Tiswas with the Phantom Flan Flinger in charge and the rest of Parliament doing the dying fly.

90236 Suitejb, 7, #344 of 1033 🔗

So is France going to retaliate and enforce quarantine on visitors from the UK and if so when? It would be handy to know as we are planning a trip shortly and can cope with UK quarantine but obviously not in France. But silly me, neither Boris nor Macron gives a toss about causing inconvenience or uncertainty amongst tourists and those catering for tourists. It’s all points scoring like silly schoolboys!
If we cancel that’s 3 hotels and 2 gites that will lose money as all have a cancellation clause, as well as restaurants and shops. I dare say we won’t be alone in doing this.

90239 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #345 of 1033 🔗

What do we make of this? Intrigues Old ‘red, but something smells off at the same time??


90282 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 6, #346 of 1033 🔗

What intrigues you, ‘red?

My take on it is thus….
No issues with the logo – I’ve always thought we (sceptics) should have co-opted BLM when that was at its most fashionable. Purely because it would have been the smart move at the time. As for the mission….

StandUpX Mission
We are Peacefully Questioning the Narrative

90327 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #347 of 1033 🔗

I know so close but no cigar when 5G gets brought in to it!!! Otherwise totally on board.

90342 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #348 of 1033 🔗

5G is part of the surveillance tracking thing, therefore relevant.
Unfortunately it can act as a red herring in a lockdown protest because anti-5G people have already been successfully dubbed conspiracy theorists and tend to be dismissed without being heard.

90369 ▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Cheezilla, -1, #349 of 1033 🔗

Ah I see, not that it causes covid but allowing more surveillance, I hadn’t thought of this. However I’m still personally for 5G given how sure internet speeds are in the UK!!

90469 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Youth_Unheard, #350 of 1033 🔗

If speed is your only concern, then go ahead. I’d look into it a bi more before endorsing it though.

90384 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #351 of 1033 🔗

I wonder if they could be persuaded to quietly drop that bit, for a while, until we’ve got some kind of sanity back

90487 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #352 of 1033 🔗

The 5G protest thing is a state managed psy-op within a psy-op. It is being used to throw a whole load of lockdownskeptics into the conspiracy theory looney cul-de-sac where they can be tied in with a draw string and thrown in the conspiracy theory canal and drowned.

That said I do think there is a very real issue around health and radio waves in general, especially the use of mobile phones next to your head and wifi everywhere especially in schools and in close proximity to your body.

Also having powerful mobile network transmitters near housing and schools I think is a bad idea for health reasons. The fact is that the standards for safety of mobile phone use is very very outdated. There has been no research done at all on the safety of mobile phone use as far as I am aware although it would seem to me that all kinds of head/face/oral/brain/and kneck cancers are being caused by mobile phone use.

Letting anybody under the age of 15 to use a mobile phone next to their head is asking for trouble. Personally I never hold my phone next to my head and talk, I use it like a speaker phone. A good friend of mine died from a rare brain cancer last year, he loved being on his phone, he was a very popular guy. It would seem to me that the type of brain cancer he had is on the increase….

90723 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #353 of 1033 🔗

Who successfully dubbed them as conspiracy theorists? Hmm?

90569 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Tom Blackburn, #354 of 1033 🔗

Red smells hard left

90664 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #355 of 1033 🔗

Red might be right. I wish we could get over old left/right concerns on this nonsense though.

90245 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 20, #356 of 1033 🔗

Normalcy makes me happy – but shows what a ridiculous time we are living in.

Quick trip into Tescos – it’s Wales so no masks required. Disappointing to see around 50:50 masked to non masked wearers but this Tesco is literally within spitting distance of the English border and half the town is in England, so perhaps the little sheep like English don’t realise no masks necessary here. Have to say most of the masked are young – so perhaps it’s more about wokeness?

Anyways I did my shopping, came out, put shopping in my car and was trundling my trolley to to trolley stand when I was accosted by a smiling lady on her way into the store who asked if she could take my trolley to use. No – OMG the handle must be infected with plague, no leaping out of the way so we didn’t breath plague on each other. It was like life used to be. I handed her the trolley, we smiled an almost conspiratorial smile and went on our way.

There are many of us out there!!

90256 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to The Spingler, 13, #357 of 1033 🔗

My brother and I met his new next-door neighbour yesterday. We all shook hands! What an uplifting act of defiance it was.

90265 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to The Spingler, 5, #358 of 1033 🔗

Wednesday drove to Machynlleth (by accident). The Wednesday market was thriving. Everyone behaving normally – tourists and locals alike. Very few muzzles. If I didn’t know otherwise, I would never have thought society was teetering at the brink of a ‘Second Wave’ (though I’d have asked myself why a few weirdos were masked up – Comic Con convention perhaps?)

90300 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #359 of 1033 🔗

How do you drive to Machynlleth by accident? There’s only two roads: coast road and Newtown road…

90310 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #360 of 1033 🔗

Who goes to Machynlleth deliberately?
It’s a place you go through .

90454 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, #361 of 1033 🔗

Actually there’s quite a pleasant place called Plas Talgarth just down the road. Stayed there. Plus, of course, the alt technology centre

90504 ▶▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, #362 of 1033 🔗

The street market is great especially the Indian street food lady in her mobile van. 🙂 I go there once a year usually en route to the wonderful, inspiring Dyfi Osprey Project that has sadly been locked down since March and won’t open till next year, causing them to lose an entire year’s revenue. 🙁

90599 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Melangell, #363 of 1033 🔗

Do ospreys carry the virus or something?

90622 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #364 of 1033 🔗

Owain Glyndwr liked it, I hear.

90324 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #365 of 1033 🔗

My wife and I got in the car and drove in a random direction. No sat nav or map. Great fun! Not been there before (not past Bala anyway) so the roads were completely new to me.

90522 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mrs Two-Six, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #366 of 1033 🔗

The Mach Loop is a series of valleys, notable for their use as low-level training areas for fast jet aircraft and propeller-driven aircraft. Between the towns of Dolgellau and Machynlleth. It is awesome!! Me and Two-Six sat on the side of a huge hill (last year) with loads of other people and had the most exciting time watching these jets roaring past us. A real thrill. Mach Loop is among the few places in the world where photographers can see combat aircraft flying below them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INcWJYFvSkQ

90526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mrs Two-Six, #367 of 1033 🔗

There is a really nice camp site in Machynlleth too.

90373 ▶▶ davews, replying to The Spingler, 3, #368 of 1033 🔗

Disinfecting trolley handles amuses me. Our Tesco has a table outside with sanitiser and J-cloths for cleaning the trolleys. But since you have just got the trolley out of the rack you have already touched the handle so probably already infected yourself before you clean it. I just walk straight in and avoid the hand sanitiser as well.

90259 Castendo, replying to Castendo, 1, #369 of 1033 🔗


watch while you can…
We are dooomed…

90262 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Castendo, 2, #370 of 1033 🔗

Definitely prophetic that’s for sure.

90264 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 11, #371 of 1033 🔗

In todays news … the total number of people in the UK ( population 68 million ) who died with or of covid19 in the last 24 hours is …3 . ( three ) .


So why are we continuing with this pantomine ?

Could be worse I suppose. In New Zealand an expert called ” Siouxie Wiles ” with red hair has called for the country to go into stage 4 which means complete lockdown , house arrest 24/7 apart from food shopping


90272 ▶▶ annie, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #372 of 1033 🔗

We a!ways knew the NZ smugness wouldn’t last.
Pity any sane Kiwis, though.

90284 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #373 of 1033 🔗

Ah, but did they die directly because of CV19, or with it???

90724 ▶▶ nat, replying to Peter Thompson, #374 of 1033 🔗

an expert called ” Siouxie Wiles ” with red hair  – sounds like a warning that if I click on the link I am going to get some leftist woke bollocks

90270 annie, replying to annie, 25, #375 of 1033 🔗

Does anybody else remember a TV programme called That’s Life , with Esther Rantzen?

A regular feature was the Jobsworth Award, given to some person reported by a viewer as having acted in a way that was gratuitously obstructive and stupidly inflexible, because to act sensible was ‘more than my job’s worth’.

I now propose a weekly Zombie’s Worth award for the most egregious bit of. Covid stupidity turned up by our intrepid members over the last seven days.
This week I propose to divide the award between the plonkers in Wisconsin who mandated masks for Zoom meetings , and the cretins in St David’s who require them on a RIB trip because it’s public transport . I think those two are equal, but unequalled.

Unless, as Esther used to say, you know different…

90275 ▶▶ Edna, replying to annie, 4, #376 of 1033 🔗

I remember the programme well and I second your two nominees 🙂 !

90279 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to annie, 2, #377 of 1033 🔗

No but I remember the Archie Bunker show…

and the world today is being run by Mike and Archies daughter…

We are soo fked…

90671 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Castendo, 1, #378 of 1033 🔗

Those were the days!

90283 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to annie, 4, #379 of 1033 🔗

Great idea Annie. I’m with you on those 2 awards, but there have been so many reported here you’ve got a tough job ahead of you!

90295 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to bluemoon, 3, #380 of 1033 🔗

Definitely a great idea, maybe Toby could feature this on his blog once a week.
I agree both of the above are hard to match for lunacy, though the first one (Zoom meetings) is arguably more sinister than absurd, in its attempt to “normalise” mask-wearing in every interaction with other people, even when virtual.
The second (boat trip), on the other hand would probably win the Jobsworth Award as well!

90351 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, 4, #381 of 1033 🔗


90441 ▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, 2, #382 of 1033 🔗

The Zoom one is unbeatable really – except wearing them in your own home when you live alone

90518 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #383 of 1033 🔗

Great idea – a bit like We Got A Problem channel on YouTube’s “Shit Weasel of the Week”, Toby can ask us for nominations then have a vote then the one with the most votes is crowned “Zombie Worth of the Week”, it will end up becoming more prestigious than the Oscars, Baftas, etc

90597 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #384 of 1033 🔗

We could do a ceremony, with celebrities and glitz and Toby opening a little envelope and a statuette of a nappied zombie and the tearful winner being interviewed by a servile BBC reporter…

90672 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #385 of 1033 🔗

On Skype.

90743 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #386 of 1033 🔗

Plus have a red carpet and interviews and goody bags.The whole shebang,

90815 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to annie, #387 of 1033 🔗

The mandated masks for zoom meetings – that definitely gets my vote!

90281 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 4, #388 of 1033 🔗

Useful mask tips from The Viz

90321 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #389 of 1033 🔗

Bloody hell – is Viz still going! Great stuff!

90335 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Mr Dee, #390 of 1033 🔗

Anyone wearing a mask will not understand the distress that Johnny Fartipants causes when he lets one go.

90417 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 1, #391 of 1033 🔗

I get Viz on subscription

90554 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, 1, #392 of 1033 🔗

Is Millie Tant still there or is she (he?) now esconced in the higher reaches of the teaching unions .

90558 ▶▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to mjr, #393 of 1033 🔗

She ran off with Student Grant 😜

90286 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #394 of 1033 🔗

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.13.249433v1 “Ex vivo detection of SARS-CoV-2-specific CD8+ T cells: rapid induction, prolonged contraction, and formation of functional memory”
 Another new study discussing the role of T cells in the immunity

“This was confirmed in a longitudinal analysis of acute-resolving infection that demonstrated rapid induction of the SARS-CoV-2-specific CD8+ T cells within a week followed by a prolonged contraction phase that outlasted the waning humoral immune response indicating that CD8+ T-cell responses might serve as a more precise correlate of antiviral immunity than antibody measurements after convalescence. Collectively, these data provide new insights into the fine specificity, heterogeneity, and dynamics of SARS-CoV-2-specific memory CD8+ T cells, potentially informing the rational development of a protective vaccine against SARS-CoV-2.

90311 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to swedenborg, 3, #395 of 1033 🔗

There seems to be a disturbing trend in the US, at least, to discredit the T-cell theory as “misinformation” – most notably that Buzzfeed article that, taking the politicisation of the pandemic to a new low, described it as a “right-wing theory”). There’s some discussion on this on James Todaro’s Twitter page, https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD .

Surely this amount of scientific evidence can’t be suppressed, but it’s very worrying that people are attempting to do so.

90383 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Drawde927, 1, #396 of 1033 🔗

“Right wing”. Please send these nutters to another planet, they are not human!

90289 JulieR, replying to JulieR, 17, #397 of 1033 🔗

I am so angry about the masks so I just called my friend who is a GP.
I said “Please, give your honest opinion if masks protect from Covid”.
She started “Apparently, they do”.
I said “No, please, give me your own opinion as a doctor’.
She said “I think they do protect from Covid”.
I said “Why were we told in April and May that masks are useless”.
She said “They didn’t know much about the virus”.
I said “Did you see how people use masks? The majority use disposable masks many times, stick them in their pockets, then breath their gems”.
She said “It’s ok, they breath their own gems”.
I gave up.
Then I said “What do you think about the vaccine? Will you have the vaccine? Will you get your children to have the vaccine”
She said “Yes, I will have the vaccine. We should have the vaccine in October. Of course, my children (teens) will have it.”
So I said “You think it will be safe? They are only testing it on healthy people? They said they wouldn’t take any responsibility for problems”
She said “Pharma companies always say that”
Then she started talking about second wave that is coming bin October and rise in cases and repeated all the government propaganda.
I despair.

90290 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to JulieR, 16, #398 of 1033 🔗

Without meaning to sound rude, your friend doesnt sound like a very switched on Dr…

90302 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Mark II, 8, #399 of 1033 🔗

She is either a not very good doctor or is scared to voice her opinion.
I am not sure I want to be friends with her.

90305 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Mark II, 13, #400 of 1033 🔗

Also I said to her that how fair is it that people are not getting proper health services now. She said that some GPs are scared to get Covid. I replied that the average Covid deaths age is 82 and 40 and 50 year olds have nothing to be scared about. She agreed.

90303 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JulieR, 10, #401 of 1033 🔗

I talked to a totally brainwashed GP too, it was stunning. He was a true believer. Incredible.

90314 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Two-Six, 15, #402 of 1033 🔗

Without being too specific, I worked with GPs for many years. Many of them are pretty thick. They are really glorified technicians who were told throughout medical school that they were the crème de la crème and many believe it. Don’t get me wrong, some GPs combine their technical knowledge with humanity, compassion, wisdom and common sense, in which case they offer a superb service to the sick. We can all think of GPs who fit that description. Many are very narrow minded. Having been told that they are special, and being treated by most people as special, they become narcissistic, and so will listen to no one’s views other than those which chime with their own. In other words, I took GPs off their pedestal years ago.

90338 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to JulieR, 6, #403 of 1033 🔗

I have a GP friend who is exactly the same. I empathise 😊

90435 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #404 of 1033 🔗

Most GPs know diddly squat about PPE

90381 ▶▶ Julian, replying to JulieR, 10, #405 of 1033 🔗

Intelligence comes in various forms. The ability to question things you are told, and decide for yourself, is a form of intelligence that doesn’t necessarily correlate with other forms. I know lots of “well-educated”, “intelligent”, “high-IQ” people who have swallowed everything whole and won’t and don’t listen to reason, and lots of people who don’t conform to the stereotypes or categories listed who almost instinctively know when someone is selling them a line of BS.

90406 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Julian, 5, #406 of 1033 🔗

GPs are generalists (hence G) and are not necessarily reliable on specialist topics. Some years ago I had a knee problem. The GP thought it might be an arthritic condition, but I went to see a physiotherapist who quickly diagnosed a cartilage problem, suggested an exercise routine, and correctly predicted that it would improve slowly.

90520 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JulieR, 3, #407 of 1033 🔗

Jesus wept. Makes you lose faith in the medical profession innit?

90293 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #408 of 1033 🔗

Countering the Second Wave with Facts, not Misconceptions
Important article from Michael Levitt with suggestion for Israel to quickly and safely reach herd immunity


90296 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #409 of 1033 🔗

For past 25 days Israel follows our advice, adding 1,500 cases/day. Likely half way to saturation. Smart country!Nice to be helpful!”

90323 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, #410 of 1033 🔗

Perfect to download and add to your phone, to show to those that need “nudging”. Easy for anyone to read, with a clear, common sense argument 👍

90326 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, #411 of 1033 🔗

I like the term ‘bald spot’, that’s another addition to the lexicon.

90362 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to swedenborg, #412 of 1033 🔗

Best piece I ve read for a long while

90301 Allen, replying to Allen, 25, #413 of 1033 🔗

Whatever the number of Covid tests the UK, or any, gov’t over or under counted or stashed in a cabinet or inflated with steroids is completely besides the point.

What needs to be hammered home is that EVERY SINGLE PCR TEST IS INVALID.

PCR tests and Rapid Express tests for Corona Virus are a diagnostic FRAUD. None of these tests measures the actual viral load- that is not what they are designed for. None of these tests actually tell you if you have an infection. Infection means you have an active virus and it’s replicating. The viral load is an amount that would cause an immune reaction and would hence make you sick. None of these tests can do that- they are NOT diagnostic tests.

The inventor of the PCR tests, Kary Mullis, stated all of this quite clearly. The entirety of the Covid swindle is founded on the legitimacy of these illegitimate tests. All Covid deaths and cases are suppose to be determined by these tests (even that we know not to be the case- just “presumed” is often good enough) so once the fraud of these tests is widely known and understood the entire narrative crumbles.

And all of our policies are being developed based on this hugely flawed and unreliable testing system.

Focus on these two items:- the scientific fraud of the PCR test as a diagnostic tool and the overall age of those who died (nursing homes and pre-existing conditions added) as you talk to any doubters and you will have success in exposing this scam.

AVG Age of “Death by Covid”:

Austria 80+ years Source EMS;
Canada 86 years Source HCSC;
England 80+ years Source NHS;
France 84 years Source SPF;
Germany 82 years Source RKI;
Italy 81 years Source ISS;
Spain 82 years Source MDS;
Switzerland 84 years Source BAG;
United States 80 years Source CDC;
Sweden 86 years Source FOH

A “global pandemic” is certainly not defined by age of deaths EXCEEDING the normal lifespan with no young healthy people are affected.

90306 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Allen, 2, #414 of 1033 🔗

Who cares. Stay safe!

90472 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #415 of 1033 🔗

There I go again…naughty naughty me….Great post

90589 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Two-Six, 1, #416 of 1033 🔗

Don’t lose the 2-6 mojo, Two-Six

90308 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Allen, 4, #417 of 1033 🔗

You are right. Great post

90319 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Allen, 3, #418 of 1033 🔗

Yep. I’ve been aware of this since about mid-March. At least now we can all talk about this without being automatically labelled a nutter. Excellent post.

90329 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #419 of 1033 🔗

Ditto but very few listened back then and even fewer now.

90425 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Awkward Git, #420 of 1033 🔗

Disagree. More are now (at least in my circle.)

90333 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Allen, 3, #421 of 1033 🔗

Really good point – claiming some relevance for PCR tests is like talking about being ‘a bit pregnant’.

90364 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Allen, 1, #422 of 1033 🔗

It’s not true that every single PCR test is invalid. The test has a sensitivity of about 70% and a specificity of about 99.5% at finding RNA from SARS-COV-2 and only SARS-COV2. It can sometimes find fragments of virus in recovered people but I’m including this in this specificity estimate.

PCR tests of asymptomatic people have very little use. But it is a very good test for diagnosing a patient who is ill.

90367 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 2, #423 of 1033 🔗

But it is a very good test for diagnosing a patient who is ill.”

Not really – a crap test is a crap test. You have to eliminate all other possible infective agents, given the lack of specificity of ‘Covid’ symptoms.

90402 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 4, #424 of 1033 🔗

According to ONS, about 10% of people with the usual cold/flu like symptoms (cough, fever, etc.) are positive for SARS2.

This puts the test back on the map. If the prior probability that you have Covid is 10%, then with a sensitivity/specificity of 70%/95%, a positive test means you have a 94% chance of having Covid, and a negative test a 3% chance of having it. That’s a useful diagnostic tool and can be used to inform treatment, especially because, as you say, the symptoms are the same as for a whole bunch of other things.

But in the wider population, where the prevalence is 0.05%, a positive test (assuming we don’t know whether you have symptoms, or you don’t) only means you have a 6.55% chance of being infected with the virus (and negative means 0.02%). This is not very useful information.

It’s not really the test’s fault– the root cause of the problem is really trying to control an epidemic that was over several months in the past.

90433 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 3, #425 of 1033 🔗

Absolutely correct. Pillar 2 testing should cease. They could build up more intelligent surveillance like testing sewers in metropolitan areas. Testing anonymously every 10 th swab etc and rely on PCR test for clinical ill people but also use viral culture for important situations to exclude C-19

90382 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to guy153, 2, #426 of 1033 🔗

The real problem is that as the number of tests increases and the number of symptomatic people drops the number of false positives increases (I.e. the specificity falls) whilst the number of false negatives decreases (the sensitivity increases).

If you are infected with herpes zoster you don’t get diagnosed from a test for the virus but by signs and symptoms of the associated illness (chicken pox). If the chicken pox spots have crusted over, you’re no longer infectious but will still test positive for herpes zoster AND will continue to do so for the rest of your life (the virus takes up residence in your nerves and can be retriggered as shingles).
The number of positive tests is being reported as an analogue for the number of cases.

90405 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to p02099003, 2, #427 of 1033 🔗

Yes this is exactly the problem, although I have some terminology quibbles.

The specificity is defined as the percentage of positive test results you would get if you tested 100% true positives.

If there are very few true positives in the population you’re testing you will indeed get a higher ratio of false positives to true positives. But according to the definition, the specificity is the same.

Specificity and sensitivity are properties of the test, defined in terms of the results you get against “gold-standard” true positives and true negatives.

And I agree a positive test should not be called a “case”– a case usually means someone who goes to the doctor.

90431 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to guy153, 2, #428 of 1033 🔗

Yes, a positive test shouldn’t be called a ‘case’ but that’s part of the whole scam and was deliberately used to distort and thus to enhance the fear porn

90479 ▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to guy153, #429 of 1033 🔗

Sensitivity is the ability to detect positive results and specificity is the ability to detect negative results. 100% sensitivity gives 0 false negatives and 100% specificity gives 0 false positives. 75% sensitivity suggests a 25% false negative, whereas a specificity of 99% suggests 1% false positives.

Measuring the presence of a fever is 100% sensitive but it has a poor specificity for the cause of the fever. CoViD19 gives a person a fever. Person A has a fever. Does person A have CoViD19? Maybe or maybe not. It could equally be tonsillitis, shingles, ear infection, influenza or any number of viral, bacterial or parasitic infections.

90579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to p02099003, 1, #430 of 1033 🔗

Yes or sometimes not even an infection at all. You can get a fever from welding galvanised metal and breathing in the zinc fumes.

90583 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to guy153, 3, #431 of 1033 🔗

Which proves that all welders have Covid. Goes with the job. Occupational hazard.

90590 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, 2, #432 of 1033 🔗

Especially the ones who recklessly take their welding masks off to go shopping.

90432 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to p02099003, #433 of 1033 🔗

But is SARS Cov 2 definitely latent in human cells so you will always test positive for it, like herpes zoster?
Or is it like other corona viruses, which I thought didn’t lie dormant in the cells in that way? And if it is latent and/or persistent, would it be detectable from the nasal/ oral swab, or only from a blood test? I’m trying to understand if you’re saying that, once you’ve been infected, you’ll test positive for life – which I had not thought?

90443 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #434 of 1033 🔗

As otherwise, how do you get to test negative and be allowed out of hospital? Maybe you just meant you could test positive for a month or so, but have actually recovered?

90451 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 1, #435 of 1033 🔗

No I don’t think it’s like herpes (which hides in your neurons of all places), although I have seen even this speculated in the fear porn media. If it was I don’t think you’d find it with PCR until it resurfaced again. It’s overwhelmingly likely that it’s just like any other coronavirus (although perhaps the disease is a bit more severe).

90461 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to guy153, 2, #436 of 1033 🔗

If herpes hides in neurons, all politicians and zombies are presumably immune to it.

90490 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to guy153, #437 of 1033 🔗

I used herpes as an extreme example as it is well known that you cannot be free of the virus once you’ve become infected, it lies dormant, no symptoms until something triggers it.

90525 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to p02099003, #438 of 1033 🔗

I’m not a biologist so struggle to keep up. I take from this that, yes the PCR test is good to see if what is causing your symptoms is Sars Cov2, (so RickH is wrong). But on the other hand, CV2 doesn’t hang around forever, so you might test positive for a couple of months or so after you’ve recovered, but no longer.
How is that a ‘false’ positive? You may not be infectious any more, but the test is correctly still identifying the virus, it’s just that you’ve already got better? You’d have to adjust for some positive tests representing a few people who have recently recovered if what you really want to know is how many in a population are infectious, but presumably that can be estimated?
I was thinking that there were ‘false false’ positives, i.e you’ve never been infected by Sars cov 2 at all, but there’s a % of test samples that are indeterminate, or contaminated, or something, and so it looks like an infection is present, when it is not really. And that that was what the false positive % represented. Is that wrong?

90574 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 1, #439 of 1033 🔗

If you contain whole virus particles that are capable of infecting cells and test positive that’s a true positive.

False positives come from contamination, user error, and bits of smashed up viruses in recovered patients.

You could say the latter wasn’t technically false since the test works by looking for little bits of viruses not the whole thing. But it’s the whole thing you want.

If you were looking for Cinderella and identifying her by her shoes then if you just found the shoe that wouldn’t count as having found Cinderella herself.

90869 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #440 of 1033 🔗

Excellent, thanks, just an uptick doesn’t do justice to it!

90489 ▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Bruno, #441 of 1033 🔗

I wasn’t suggesting SARS-COV-2 remains latent, just trying to demonstrate that a positive test without symptoms cannot be considered valid.
SARS-COV-2 could remain in your mucosa, nobody knows. It’s likely to be present in the environment for a long time, after all people can still become ill from H1N1 influenza virus, which was the virus that caused the 1918 pandemic.
Herpes (both simplex and zoster) is an extreme example as it does lie dormant in the nervous system, you can never be cured of cold sores. My analogy was that if a person who has had chicken pox when they were 5 years old and is tested for zoster aged 60 then it would show positive but they’re not infectious, but would count as a positive result and added to the numbers in a fictional future.

90600 ▶▶▶ Allen, replying to guy153, #442 of 1033 🔗

Send me the study that has isolated and purified the ever-elusive SARS-COV-2 virus. Hint- it doesn’t exist.

90386 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Allen, 4, #444 of 1033 🔗

What I am puzzled by is the fall in deaths from dementia, alzheimer, heart disease, cancer etc. How does a virus cause there to be fewer cases of these?? Obviously the people dying “with Covid” are the same people who would have been dying from these usual causes. Just change the death certificate and you have an epidemic.

90496 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to WhyNow, #445 of 1033 🔗

If a person has displayed symptoms that could be CoViD19 then it has to appear on the death certificate. Originally, deaths in care homes were certified remotely by a GP who didn’t either have to know or see the deceased providing there was someone present who recognised death. If there was a hint that the deceased had exhibited symptoms of CoViD19 then it would go on the certificate, irrespective of the actual cause. Don’t forget that there have been no autopsies or inquests.

90533 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to p02099003, #446 of 1033 🔗

I don’t know where you get that piece if misinformation from:
‘The coronial system of death investigation has continued to function during the COVID-19 pandemic; at John Radcliffe Hospital (Oxford, UK), we did 67 autopsies on behalf of Her Majesty’s Coroner of Oxfordshire during the first 2 months of the lockdown period. This number was significantly lower than that during the same period in 2018 due to a reduction in coronial autopsy requests following sudden natural deaths (appendix). Review of autopsy reports enabled the determination of the relative contributions of undiagnosed COVID-19 and lockdown restrictions on deaths. Of the 67 autopsies done at our hospital during the first 2 months of lockdown, only two autopsies identified COVID-19 that was undiagnosed before death. More frequently, reduced access to health-care systems associated with lockdown was identified as a probable contributory factor (six cases) or possible contributory factor (eight cases) to death. These causes included potentially preventable out-of-hospital deaths such as acute myocardial infarction and diabetic ketoacidosis, in which patients contacted the health services by telephone and were advised to self-isolate at home rather than attending hospital. Direct reference to financial or work pressures caused by COVID-caused 3 if the 10 suicides’…
I imagine other hospitals are also doing autopsies too, given the number of teaching and university hospitals in the UK engaged in active research?

90594 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bruno, #448 of 1033 🔗

So lockdown was implicated in 17 out of 67 deaths – close to a quarter – and of those 17, refusal of necessary medical attention is likely to have been a, if not the, contributory factor. Yes?

90863 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to annie, #449 of 1033 🔗

Yes; and then on the other side, as is shown in that interesting graph in the appendix, (comparing their same period 2018 autopsies with those in the 2 months of lockdown), there were 65 deaths from unexpected natural causes requiring autopsy in 2018 but only 20 in lockdown.

90932 ▶▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Bruno, #450 of 1033 🔗

“cause of death” is proving to be an elusive concept, in the context of the very elderly.

90394 ▶▶ gina, replying to Allen, #451 of 1033 🔗

https://vimeo.com/443416775 – I found this very helpful as I don’t have a science background and am trying to understand what a PCR test actually is and how they are done. It didn’t help my temper any though…

90307 Andy Riley, replying to Andy Riley, #452 of 1033 🔗

To the data experts here.
Is there a source of raw data for tests carried out by week and local authority? (or better, day and ward)

90352 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #453 of 1033 🔗

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing and https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases

There are download options on the graphs and maps that get you the raw data

The cases one is friendlier as it shows the case data by area with the area name as well as the code

The tests one just seems to have the area code, guess you might need to get that from the cases sheet, hoping the codes are the same

90322 Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 16, #454 of 1033 🔗

I discovered this week that our library had re-opened, so I went along. All I ended up doing was returning the one book I had got out back in the spring through the letterbox. This was because on the door was the usual nasty intimidating stuff about masks, and about Track and Trace. The notice said that everyone entering the library had to fill in a T and T form. Oh, goodbye library then, I thought…..I’m not filling that in. Then I emailed Oxfordshire County Council about this because I couldn’t see why going in the library was any more risky than going in a shop. The manager of my local library emailed me back and said (of course) that they are following government guidelines, but –

“The filling in of the forms is voluntary but we are urging everyone that comes into the building to do so, to ensure that in the event of a second spike the NHS are able to more accurately follow the path of the virus.”

I checked the guidelines and found that filling in the form is indeed voluntary. I bet a lot of people don’t know that. I certainly didn’t. So I’ll go to the library, maskless of course, and proudly tell them I’m not filling in their form.

90457 ▶▶ annie, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #455 of 1033 🔗

Or fill it in with the address of the Covizealot you hate most.

90330 swedenborg, 4, #456 of 1033 🔗


Spain: First wave completing or second wave?

Spain doesn’t make it easy to understand the increasing of cases they are reporting .In this slide the lower part shows in dark green the symptomatic cases and light green asymptomatic. Grey are unknown. At least you can see the majority seem to be asymptomatic but there are substantial symptomatic. The most confusing is the table showing suspected cases in primary care(light blue) and in hospital(dark blue).No idea of definition of hospitalized suspected. Clinical case admitted with symptoms or screening of hospital patients?. At least the hospitalized category doesn’t seem to increase.
Then the Spanish government have other slides of patients admitted to hospital and admitted ICU over 7 or 14 days and also cases with symptoms over the last 7 days(not shown here). There you can see people hospitalized and ICU and also deaths. There has been suspicion before of quick discharge in hospital.
These figures are produced everyday in Worldometer and if you want headache, free to download and analyse.

90332 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #457 of 1033 🔗

Do you think all of the health, education, supply and statistical quangocrats know that the game’s up and if we ever get a democratic government again, there is going to be a call for a weeding out biblical proportions? They have proved to be useless at the one testing task they have had since WW2. Better decisions would have been made by tossing a coin, which doesn’t cost a king’s ransom like they do. They can’t really afford to let us go, can they? Democracy will have to be wrested from their (if necessary) cold dead hands.

90360 ▶▶ Julian, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #458 of 1033 🔗

I am sure a lot of them know they have been spinning BS, but suspect many of them feel very secure as they are surrounded by equally mendacious, politicized colleagues.

90334 Bella, replying to Bella, 14, #459 of 1033 🔗

Government’s response to mask petition: “We will keep advice on the use of face coverings under review, in line with the latest scientific evidence.” In other words;l “We are waiting for the nature of masks or the virus or both to change to such an extent that it completely nullifies what we said back in April when we suggested masks were a bad idea.”

90354 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 5, #460 of 1033 🔗

I can’t see any real reason for them to ditch masks now. The measure seems to have broad support, or at least no loud opposition, and the downsides for them in terms of looking incompetent and admitting the danger is past are HUGE.

I suppose they could be motivated by the economic consequences, but in general they’ve been more frightened of looking like they value money over lives than of ruining the economy.

90365 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 6, #461 of 1033 🔗

I can’t see any real reason for them to ditch masks now.”

Agreed. They’ve established that a large majority of the population can be led by the nose, and will swallow all sorts of fictional shite. The venal and the stupid can rule Britannia.

Why would they stop now?

90424 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, 2, #462 of 1033 🔗

If they can’t ditch masks and they become a feature for the rest of our lives I sense serious trouble. People are going to start asking questions about quality of life and when they haven’t got the means to provide for themselves they ain’t gonna give a toss about masks. Slowly they’ll get there are too many anomalies. Maybe that way lies revolution.

90460 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, #463 of 1033 🔗

Revolution or we’ll all become institutionalised

Let’s hope human social instinct triumphs

It is strong in many, weak in others (weaker than it used to be I think)

90336 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 9, #464 of 1033 🔗

Quick update in Portugal, shopping much more unpleasant than UK as you WILL be accosted for not wearing an appropriate mask perfectly at all times by either a shop worker or other brain washed citizens.

90355 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to Youth_Unheard, 4, #465 of 1033 🔗

Yes, here in Portugal 90% of citizens appear to be mask zealots. I’ve seen people wear them alone in cars and when running.

90358 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to jrsm, 3, #466 of 1033 🔗

So many countries I’ve had to cross off the list in such a short time. Oh well, guess I will have time to visit all the places worth visiting after all…

90385 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Youth_Unheard, 9, #467 of 1033 🔗

“In Bergerac, France,masks are to be worn, outdoors, 2 days a week, Wednesdays and Saturdays. Seen enough yet?

I think this comment is brilliant

 There’s a silver lining: smart kids develop intellects by encountering great stupidity at a young age. It irritates your brain like a grain of sand, and the pearl you grow around it is rationality. I bet COVID-19 hysteria is growing some incisive little thinkers.

90391 ▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to swedenborg, 2, #468 of 1033 🔗

Well that mask order in France is really absurd. Here in Portugal people seem to have conserved most of their reasoning abilities except when it comes to COVID-19. Every arbitrary mandate regarding COVID-19 is unquestioningly accepted, because it is ‘necessary’. Several people have died from neglect in a care home, and after this was discovered, their deaths were still attributed to COVID-19, but no one seems to have any problem with that.

90421 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to swedenborg, 8, #469 of 1033 🔗

My daughter at 9 is already a fervent anti-masker, with zero fear of this ‘virus’. I’m proud of her! With people like her in the world there’s hope for the future.

90455 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #470 of 1033 🔗

Three cheers for her!

90453 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #471 of 1033 🔗

During the worst of the bollox, one local farm shop advertised its new, limited opening times, including

Sundays: closed owing to Corinavirus.

The thing obviously likes running to a timetable.

90337 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #472 of 1033 🔗


Illustrative world map to be shown at Imperial College Public Health Course part 2

90343 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 2, #473 of 1033 🔗

All worth it if it saves just one 90 year old life. Except it didn’t even do that. Good video here about NY by Wittkowski. Among other things he estimates 30k care home Covid deaths caused by hysteria.

I didn’t know they were getting as high as 60% positive rates in PCR either.


90348 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to swedenborg, 2, #474 of 1033 🔗

No mention of massive unemployment and businesses going bust. Not enough space on the map, given all the other negatives that are shown.

90341 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 12, #475 of 1033 🔗

That’s it we are doomed https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8630725/Britain-records-five-Covid-deaths-UK-tally-41-363.html . I’m off to sit in my garden shed , muzzled up hoping that the virus doesn’t act like a heat seeking missile and get me. “ The rising numbers of positive tests have ignited fears that the virus is rebounding and sliding out of control. “. Seriously whoever writes this must be laughing as they do .

90346 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 1, #476 of 1033 🔗

DM readers love to play the Isn’t It Dreadful!!!! game.

90372 ▶▶ Julian, replying to arfurmo, 1, #477 of 1033 🔗

I hope they are not laughing – I hope they believe it. If they’re laughing then that’s sinful.

Some good sceptic comments on there, along with the usual rubbish.

90345 swedenborg, 1, #478 of 1033 🔗

“16 Possible Factors for Sweden’s High Covid Death Rate among the Nordics”
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3674138 Only available in abstract.From “dry tinder”,immigrants,sports break earlier and to Stockholmers travelling to Alpine regions .

90359 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #479 of 1033 🔗


“Let me tell you a story. It’s about six passenger flights from Wuhan that led to an unprecedented global disaster. These six flights help to explain why the entire world was gripped by fear, with consequences that we’ll be living with for many years to come

An absolute twitter read for people interested in Neil Fergusson

 If this is really true it is almost unbelievable

90366 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 1, #480 of 1033 🔗

Very interesting. I can’t see which papers of theirs he refers to in the various Tweets, but this one is certainly authentic:

Report 7: Estimating infection prevalence in Wuhan City from repatriation flights


90663 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Julian, 1, #481 of 1033 🔗

How on earth could Fergusson think that six plane loads of foreigners in Wuhan could be representative of people exposed to C-19? The first rule in epidemiology is to look out for bias. These westerners or Japanese evacuees from Wuhan could never be representative of Wuhan population. They all lived probably secluded, not mixed much with Chinese, most likely never ventured into markets etc. This is such a bias of an unrepresentative population exposure for this virus. And he based his whole doomsday scenario on that bias. And the most fateful thing is that Levitt e mailed him with his calculations for “Diamond Express” suggesting another problem IFR. He did not respond to his email. And the whole world’s response is based on that figures.

90363 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 11, #482 of 1033 🔗

Hello, sorry things move on so fast here that I loose touch, I think this link was posted earlier today;
Regarding herd immunity?
Quite a hard read, Just wondered if anyone had gone through this enough to know the implications? As far as I got ploughing through it; was that with the lock-downs in Leicester, Aberdeen and the North of England, they were actually counter-productive as, so long as hospital cases were not rising, giving the virus free asymptomatic rein would build up effective herd immunity in that sector of the population and protect us for the future months. Is that the implication?

To put it in colloquial terms; non vulnerable people having a good time in the local pub, and maybe spreading this virus about a bit is a very good thing, builds herd immunity and that introducing lock-down is bad for public health?
Have I got that right?

90370 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Martindale, 10, #483 of 1033 🔗

I’ve not read the report, but everything I have read and the evidence from actual data around the world backs your arguments. I guess the issue would be if SOME of those people developed symptoms which then infected the vulnerable. But a lockdown doesn’t prevent that (unless you lock down forever) only postpones it.

Unless you believe in miracle vaccines, herd immunity with a close eye on protecting the vulnerable and preventing healthcare from being overwhelmed was and is the only sustainable, sensible, morally justifiable strategy.

90494 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Julian, 2, #484 of 1033 🔗

Mind you, I’m completely fed up with mathematical models what with Ferguson and the climate ones.

We have PLENTY of real data now that shows:




90683 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #485 of 1033 🔗


90388 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #486 of 1033 🔗

YOUR CRAZY, you are killing people!!!!!!!!

90423 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Two-Six, 1, #487 of 1033 🔗

Hello, I am afraid I do not seem to recall seeing your name before on this site? I think if you examine my original post you will see that I was asking a question and I am perplexed as to how asking a question can lead to an accusation of killing people?
But anyway on the subject of deaths, for the last 7 weeks the total number of registered deaths in England & Wales has been below the 5 year average. Analysis so far has been that in the lock-down areas there has been no rise in hospital cases let alone deaths and so I would have to say I really do not understand your comment?

90426 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #488 of 1033 🔗

He (or she) is taking the piss

90467 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mhcp, 2, #489 of 1033 🔗

kind of..yer

90450 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #490 of 1033 🔗

Two-six has been with us since FOREVER.

90580 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 1, #491 of 1033 🔗

We are in this site with Two-a six. We have always been on this site with Two-Six

90466 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #492 of 1033 🔗

I know, sorry…An ill judged comment. I will stop doing things like that, I know a comment can be taken literally. I was just highlighting your very sensible commentary with a typical crazy main stream response to act as a counterpoint to your wise recommendations.

Perhaps I am just sick to the back teeth of comments like this I need to type them to highlight their absurdity to a wider audience…I dunno. I laugh as I type crap like this.

90473 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #493 of 1033 🔗

Two-Six is our 1984 badge man! He was being ironic.

90448 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #494 of 1033 🔗

Sounds like common sense. Remember when we had that?

90468 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #495 of 1033 🔗

That’s what the doc argues in the Ivor Cummings video.

90375 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #496 of 1033 🔗

From Sweden.All these cases are in the officially C-19 deaths in Sweden but only 15 % was C-19 the direct cause of death. Wasn’t that the exact figure from Italy early on?

“Östergötland region has audited the journals of those who died with C-19. in care homes or at home. At the point of audit this was 122 individuals ie ca 51% of total c19 deaths in the region. Of those 122: 111 had multiple comorbidities, 11 had milder comorbidities. About half of the deceased were 88+ years old.C-19 was deemed direct cause of death in 15% of cases, contributing in 70% of cases and other illnesses were deemed cause of death in 15% of deaths”


90387 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, 3, #497 of 1033 🔗

THAT’S TERRIFYING !!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOCK IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!

90378 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 50, #498 of 1033 🔗

The whole family went out today for an alfresco lunch at the waterside cafe at a nearby reservoir. Children ran up and down, played football, rolled down grassy mounds, chased dogs. People picnicked, laughed and joked, walked and talked.
On the playground, children and parents ignored notices about numbers or social distancing or hand sanitising and simply had fun.

For a few hours, the virus no longer ruled us, the world felt almost normal.

And for those few hours, for the first time in months, I felt at peace with the world.

90398 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Margaret, 21, #499 of 1033 🔗

Lovely. I think we should remind ourselves that there are a LOT of people, who, while not being active sceptics or mask rebels, are not afraid of some deadly virus and have moved on. There is hope.

90685 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #500 of 1033 🔗

The Crystal Method, Keep Hope Alive:

90400 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Margaret, 16, #501 of 1033 🔗

I have a 6-year-old and I can confirm that playgrounds are generally great. The terrified wouldn’t dream of taking their children somewhere so dangerous, so the vast majority who do go seem to behave normally. I haven’t seen a single parent expect their child to social distance and my daughter has played closely with lots of other children with no complaints.

On the other hand, a couple of weeks ago in the woods in the middle of nowhere, she started to help another child build a den and the mother asked us to remove her because she wasn’t “distancing”!

90438 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #502 of 1033 🔗

she started to help another child build a den and the mother asked us to remove her because she wasn’t “distancing ”!”

Ye Gods! Was out with the wife today and agreed we had been fortunate indeed in the timing, in that our four offspring are grown up and independent, but no grandchildren yet. What a time to have to worry about children and to deal with parents with attitudes like the one you describe! Let’s hope we are at or near the end of this collective insanity.

90485 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, 4, #503 of 1033 🔗

I didn’t have a go at her because she was very polite about it and I hate confrontation – but my facial expression and body language would have left her in no doubt!

90586 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #504 of 1033 🔗

It’s complicated, dealing with such situations with young children present….

90577 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #505 of 1033 🔗

Mine are 6 and 8. I haven’t seen a single parent remotely worried about distancing since about May and we’ve been – as Jonathan van Tam would say – “tearing the pants out of it” when it comes to getting the kids out to meet their friends and make new friends.

90584 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 2, #506 of 1033 🔗

You’ve done right, then. But I suspect there are a fair few parents about like the one Contrarian describes, they just aren’t making their presence felt other than online, like the ones in the groups described below calling for school boycotts because of “the danger”.

90607 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #507 of 1033 🔗

Forgive me if I fail to weep for them.

90608 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 2, #508 of 1033 🔗

Indeed. Weeping for their children would be appropriate.

90616 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #509 of 1033 🔗

Well, true. But the number of tears would need to be adjusted for the level of parenting one might expect them to have had under the best of circumstances.

90447 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 5, #510 of 1033 🔗

Good for you!
You see, not everybody is a zombie. Far from it. Normal is there, waiting.They can’t stop it for ever.

90379 assoc, replying to assoc, 7, #511 of 1033 🔗

If the figures on worldometers are correct there are 930 patients in hospital with covid, and there about 120,000 hospital bed in the UK.
Can these figures really be correct, and if they are how many empty beds are there today?

90444 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to assoc, 2, #512 of 1033 🔗

I could well believe it. The equivalent in the Republic of Ireland is in low double digits but local lockdowns exist in 3 counties and ridiculous face mask rules have been introduced. The only good news is that the Chairman of the Irish Tourist Board resigned after breaching guidelines to not undertake non essential overseas travel by holidaying in Italy!

90452 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to assoc, #513 of 1033 🔗

930 is the number on the UK Gov site.

90401 Eddie, 7, #514 of 1033 🔗

‘Call ambulance then suffocate with towel’
I just erupted into that special kind of laughter, joyous and prolonged!
Hallelujah! this site is the only thing keeping me sane nowadays

90404 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 9, #516 of 1033 🔗

We are all sceptics here, but can anyone think of a way to interpret the data and conclude that the virus is unusually dangerous? i.e. a way to present the opposite argument to the one we make here.

I’ve had a go, but I get stuck. The media narrative is easy, but the data narrative is harder.

Media narrative is: lots of deaths in April, then lockdown with fewer deaths, so need to be careful with releasing lockdown.

Data narrative is: spike in deaths in April above 5 year average, deaths nearly all occur in hospitals and care homes, and nearly all the terminally ill, then lockdown, then hospitalisation with Covid falls but deaths also fall from all other causes. Deaths from flu and pneumonia continue at their normal rate despite the lockdown.

How does a virus get to be so selective in hitting only those who are terminally ill with dementia, cancer etc?? And how do flu and pneumonia continue to kill people despite the lockdown?

I can’t see of a way to interpret the data and conclude that the virus is a deadly threat. On the other hand, I can’t see an obvious way to explain the spike in deaths in April. The only way I can see to explain it is as a novel virus to which all but the terminally ill have quickly developed their own immunity.

90419 ▶▶ Michael C, replying to WhyNow, 2, #517 of 1033 🔗

Very pertinent points and very interesting challenge!

90436 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to WhyNow, 1, #518 of 1033 🔗

It’s easy. 1 infected person is equivalent to everyone in the world infected due to exponential growth. Since we don’t know who that 1 person might be then we should act as if everyone is infected and assume that the 1% of people the virus might kill (70M people) will die at some point in the future.

By assuming these people will die, any action taken, even if it’s just standing on one leg, and nobody dies then we can assume said actions saved all those lives.

So 1 infected person is equivalent to 70M people dead unless action is taken. That’s how deadly it is.

90449 ▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 4, #519 of 1033 🔗

I haven’t seen anything that suggests it is anything like as dangerous as was originally thought, and Sweden, Belarus, Pakistan and Haiti and other places that appear to be close to herd immunity seem like fairly incontrovertible evidence that it is not.

I think it exists, and it has ended some people’s lives earlier than they would otherwise have ended, by an average of probably months – that’s the April spike (probably skewed by some lockdown related deaths).

By the end of the year, we should have a better picture – look at all-cause mortality and compare to previous years. It may be one of the worst in recent decades, but nothing unprecedented.

90475 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Julian, 2, #520 of 1033 🔗

But let’s imagine it is a readily identifiable disease. Let’s say those who catch it turn green and there is no mistaking it.

There was a spike in April, but it only killed the already terminally ill. Now, hardly anyone is turning green, but deaths from dementia, heart disease and cancer are all DOWN, while deaths from other infectious diseases like flu and pneumonia continue at the normal rate.

One possible explanation is that it was a novel infection, and the hospital treatment actually killed the patients. Now they have stopped using ventilators, fewer people are dying.

Just looking for a plausible explanation of the data.

90493 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to WhyNow, 2, #521 of 1033 🔗

I think it quickly culled the highly vulnerable – assisted by the official policy of exposing them to it.
It clearly made some people very ill but most people have had minor symptoms, if any.

90556 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to WhyNow, #522 of 1033 🔗

Are you looking at the ONS stats?
There, 25.6% of the Cv19 deaths also had dementia on the death cert, possibly with other things (co morbidities) as well. It’s a notifiable disease, so must go on the cert where found along with other things. For public health surveillance. These will be in the ONS stats as deaths ‘with’ CV19. You can’t count them twice, so yes, that does reduce the number of dementia, heart disease, cancer deaths in those stats. It matters when you’re trying to track how serious a new disease is, how widespread, etc. But you still know all the causes of death, so if you need to know how many people died ‘with dementia’ you could pull out those figures, too.

90573 ▶▶ matt, replying to WhyNow, 2, #523 of 1033 🔗

I’ve been through this myself before, because I decided that _surely_ SAGE and so on must be seeing something that I hadn’t seen and so maybe I was looking in the wrong places.

All I could get to was: it’s clearly either more infectious than a bad ‘flu or more dangerous to the health compromised, or both. The excess death numbers are within the range, but they did happen over a much shorter period of time than the same deaths in a bad ‘flu season.

I could find no reason for anybody who was reasonably healthy and under the age of about 75 to worry about it.

I could find no justification for the level of panic, but have to concede that I’m looking through a retrospectoscope.

I’ve seen nothing since to change my mind, other than that the current numbers are even less concerning than the numbers available in April/May

90408 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #524 of 1033 🔗

Three pictures from a mad world


Lunchtime primary school US


School cleaning South Korea


 Thai children in day care

Anyone seeing these pictures must understand the sheer lunacy for a disease that doesn’t affect children.
Institutionalised child abuse. Punishable by prison.

90465 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to swedenborg, 5, #525 of 1033 🔗

It is child abuse…. there’s a strange group on Facebook that is suggesting boycotting “unsafe” schools.
It’s full of fearful mums. All of whom love the safety precautions. They definitely don’t see it as child abuse. They see it as safety and protection. I find it abhorrent.

90491 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #526 of 1033 🔗

A part of me wishes they would just boycott. Along with the bedwetter teachers. Then the rest of us can carry on as close to normal as possible. 50% full school is no skin off my nose as long as my kids are back.

90514 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #527 of 1033 🔗

The group (I’m snooping without comment) has a lot of members that will deregister kids.

Agree better for them to boycott. I feel so sorry for them all. All whipped into a frenzy. They’d say the same about us skeptics though wouldn’t they…

90410 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 8, #528 of 1033 🔗

I live in a quiet village in the south west. Yesterday, I saw a healthy looking middle-aged man walking his dog, fully muzzled (the man, not the dog – funny how things have changed). No one around but me. I wanted to ask him re his muzzle, but thought it might be rude, as, after all, he may have some medical condition he wishes to keep private. But then I thought, no, we are told masks are to protect others from the wearer’s toxic breath, so his reason can’t be – can it? – that he has a medical condition which means he should wear a mask owing to having a health vulnerability, so there would be no risk of my violating his medical privacy. He must have reason to think his breath must be dangerous to others, in which case I think I have a right to know, especially as his mask looked useless. Or he does indeed think he’s wearing it to protect himself, in which case he needs educating. I hereby commit on this site to having a word with him as and when I next see him.

90442 ▶▶ annie, replying to Aremen, 3, #529 of 1033 🔗

Let us know what the old …. says!

90414 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #530 of 1033 🔗

One of the commenters in OffG made an interesting observation:

I wonder whether the quarantine in place since today for people travelling notably from France and the Netherlands is not to counter the anti-measures protest planned for Aug. 28 in UK? Because if you count the days from 15, then basically the 28 would be your last day of quarantine. Possibly this is to prevent any the 500 000 apparently vacationing in France from taking part, as well as making it harder for anyone from the continent from going to UK to join the march since through France is a main way to go, and in the NL Schipol airport is a major hub, and thus possibly another common way of going to UK…
I wonder if the quarantine then will be lifted end of Aug. or early Sep. and the reason given that children must get back to school…

So, simple power-weilding nastiness, thwarting protesters, or both?

90517 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #531 of 1033 🔗

Could it be that UK tourists are caught in a spat between the UK and France over the migration of illegals across the channel, i.e. use C19 as cover to hit their tourism industry until they do more to stem the flow? Just a thought. Anything is possible in this topsy turvy world.

90523 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to smurfs, 3, #532 of 1033 🔗

That’s possible.
However, I’m not convinced they are “illegals.” I think a lot of them are asylum seekers from places like Syria and Sudan. Many have been tortured or have witnessed their families being massacred. Poor souls have surely gone through enough.
Only 4,000 of them in total since January, apparently. A civilised country ought to be able to deal with that, especially as we have lots of room for 1 million invited to come from Hong Kong.

90565 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #533 of 1033 🔗

I’m not convinced they are “illegals.” I think a lot of them are asylum seekers from places like Syria and Sudan . ”

Of course they are illegals, and economic migrants, by definition, unless we’ve suddenly acquired a border with Syria or Sudan while I wasn’t looking.

If you want to sympathy monger for them, do it at the expense of the Turks or Italians or French or whoever it was who failed to deal with them as supposed refugees when they first arrived in those countries.

And don’t use the criminal offer our rulers have made (at the nation’s cost not theirs, as usual) to bring in a bunch of chinese immigrants just because of an irrelevant historical connection as some kind of leverage to impose more self-harm on the nation. If there’s any debt over Hong Kong it’s owed by Hong Kongers to Britain for providing them with a far, far better place to live for generations than they would have had without British involvement. Alright if you say that’s cancelled by the fact that we had our own reasons for doing it, but sentimental nonsense about supposed duties of care are just that – sentimental bollocks, and exactly what you’d expect from a manipulative buffoon like Johnson..

90610 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #534 of 1033 🔗

Calm down, dear. I doubt there’ll be much self harm inflicted, no more than from the HKers who’ve been coming here for years, to set up Chinese takeaways. Plus a few millionaires. As for the 4K in boats, since this country steadfastly declines, quite rightly, to issue ID cards to its citizens, we have no idea how many people come in and out illegally in any year. It’s all done by some sort of mathematical modelling based on surveys at ports of entry. Now where have I heard the phrase statistical modelling before?

90630 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, 1, #535 of 1033 🔗

Gosh, you mean in your opinion (as someone who thinks immigration is good) more mass immigration won’t do us any harm? Well, that’s all right then.

Back here in the real world, mass immigration (it’s almost always about the numbers, not the individuals) increases diversity, which by definition reduces the cohesion and shared values that are the essence of a nation state, and contributes to reduced public trust. But hey, don’t suppose you’ll suffer any pf the consequences, at least not in the short term. Don’t suppose you had any sympathy for the many thousands who have suffered already either – those nasty racist thickos deserved what they got for being racist thickos.

90709 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #536 of 1033 🔗

England has always been a pretty porous state, due to being conquered several times up the Norman Conquest, then ourselves conquering and trading round the world. It’s wishful thinking to imagine otherwise. Scotland, Wales, Ireland, less so. But then they might disagree about the extent to which they share England’s values. Heck, we might even disagree about which values we share, given our history of often bitter religious, political and class differences, playing out still even in our own lifetimes. Fair play, humour, understatement, stiff upper lip, maybe, although our masters seem to have jettisoned some of those recently.

90919 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, #537 of 1033 🔗

“Pretty porous” is completely different from facing sustained mass immigration.

I gave the numbers here the other day – Britain has never in the past thousand years faced anything approaching the current ongoing flood of divisive diversity. That you doubtless believe otherwise is because you have been propagandised every bit as much as the coronapanickers have, but on a much more sustained basis.

And being a cohesive nation does not mean being without disagreement, any more than families are always in harmony. But when you introduce new division and difference on large scales, you increase the likelihood and cost of disharmony and make the possibilities for consensus much less and much more limited. The result is a requirement for authoritarian control. That’s already been exhibited in this country by the need to restrict freedoms of speech and of association in order to suppress “racist” dissent, to protect and sustain mass immigration.

It’s always a numbers game. Individuals are (mostly) fine, small amounts of diversity is fine, in fact arguably the real benefit its advocates invariably claim. Large numbers are bad and very large numbers catastrophic.

Hence the general truth: mass immigration is inherently a bad thing.

90416 Laura, replying to Laura, 55, #538 of 1033 🔗

Does anyone else feel true despair? My weekends feel hopeless, as I go to figure out what to do with my two-year-old. All my old joy – museums, culture, restaurants, travel – has been stolen. This feels endless and like there are absolutely zero competent people at the helm. I will not go back to a museum, of which I was a member of 6, until the insane mask policy is gone. My job – which I am successful at – is on the edge, because I work in travel and it has been stolen from us and talked about as the devil, though most “cases” are now passed along at home – no one notices. My parents haven’t seen my kid in a year. I just cried for 30 min straight today. I hate my kid seeing me and everyone in a mask. I hate “safety” measures. I truly feel hopeless.

90420 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Laura, 20, #539 of 1033 🔗

Laura, Hang in there, you are among friends. Things will get better!

90428 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Laura, 12, #540 of 1033 🔗

It must be really hard with a toddler – on the positive side is at 2 years old they won’t remember much about it in the future. Hang in there and never forget even the crappiest times come to an end. My hope is when the fools get back in to parliament there may be some questions at least.

90430 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Laura, 12, #541 of 1033 🔗

Less time wearing mask – If asked – say it frightens your child!
Beach Good
Parks Good
Bike ride?
Good local café
How come your child has not seen your parents?
Pub with a swing?

90499 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Steeve, 10, #542 of 1033 🔗

Laura, Steeve is correct go without a mask, if whilst in a shop you are asked by anyone why you are not masked it is non of their business, you are exempt.

IF and it is a big IF you were to be asked by a police officer why you are not wearing a mask, you are doing it because your child is frighted when you are masked. Only 33 tickets have been issued in England for non mask wearing, I suspect the people who got tickets pushed the police enough to write a ticket.

This is only a little thing but if you child feels better so will you.

90503 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #543 of 1033 🔗

Only 33 tickets….That’s re-assuring for sure. But 33!…hummmm

90437 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Laura, 18, #544 of 1033 🔗

I know how you feel Laura, everything we valued has been taken away to be replaced by a walking dead replicant version. It’s the knowledge that it’s so unnecessary that makes it even more painful too.

90753 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to tonys, 2, #545 of 1033 🔗

I wonder which is worse: fearing the virus and therefore believing the ‘measures’ are necessary, or having no fear of the virus* and therefore knowing it’s all an unnecessary, self-inflicted catastrophe.

*Technically, I should think that for most of us it’s accepting that we have to live with the virus – if it exists.

90439 ▶▶ annie, replying to Laura, 21, #546 of 1033 🔗

We all hate masks.
We all hate the poison cult of bogus safety.
At least you aren’t deluded by them. Isn’t that good? It’s certainly a big, big bonus for your child.
But don’t lose hope. This will end.
Maybe you and your son can start your own museum if everything that’s still good about where you live?

90446 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Laura, 33, #547 of 1033 🔗

Laura, I know its horrible. It’s insane. I don’t despair because I am a pretty optimistic person and even although this situation has gone on for nearly 6 months it’s still only a blip in time.

The evil crazies that had brought this calamity down on our heads are giving it their very best shot. They only have one cartridge, one form of ammo, a cartridge that fires FEAR and LIES. The range of their ammunition is not that far, it runs out of energy pretty quickly.

The wheels are starting to fall off their train and they will not be able to stop the tide as it turns against them. This is why they demand masks, to perpetuate the fear, to perpetuate the myth of Corona virus.

None of them can’t stop the time, the tide, or a virus. What is happening isn’t about a virus it’s about global politics and power struggles. It would seem these issues are being fought out with a made up virus. At least they aren’t working out their differences with real warfare just psychological warfare. At least the power is still on and Tescos has food in it. Be thankful for that at least.

Stop shopping, stay away from zombies, go camping, cycle, drive out the countryside, make a fire, cook some food on it, make a swing, go swimming. Make a new space for yourself and screw these crazy fools who think all this is a good idea. They will learn the hard way what fools they have been soon enough.

Stay Sane!

90477 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 8, #548 of 1033 🔗

Absolutely spot on! The best medicine for Sceptic’s Syndrome!

91331 ▶▶▶ Paul Mendelsohn, replying to Two-Six, #549 of 1033 🔗

“Stay Sane!” Genius! That should be the mantra we all say when told “stay safe” as the new normal “goodbye”

90459 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Laura, 10, #550 of 1033 🔗

Hi Laura

Big hugs to you. I’m a mum of a 7 year old. It’s is hard enough being a mum to a toddler without what we have going on. I feel how difficult it is for you right now.

I find the more I think about what I don’t have, the more oppressed I feel. What some of the others are saying sound like good ideas. Biking, swimming, anything creative. Perhaps a visit to a local park if you’re in a city.

Any play groups you can drop your child to in order to get a break? Do you have support?

This will pass. All difficult things do.

Take care. I will be thinking of you.

X x

90696 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Country Mumkin, #551 of 1033 🔗

I bicycled past a city run neighborhood swimming pool just before noon today. All the parents and their children (at least 50 altogether) were lined up along a fence, waiting for permission to enter the swimming pool while pool guards were walking around inside doing very little. I don’t know how many people were being allowed to enter at a time but I’m almost sure it wasn’t all of them in one go. Maybe I will pass by tomorrow and take some more observations.

90703 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to richard riewer, #552 of 1033 🔗

Ours is still flippin shut, so is the concrete 70’s boating pond in the park, the towns best assets

90462 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Laura, 8, #553 of 1033 🔗

Two year-olds are usually very physical. They want to enjoy their bodies by running around, rolling down grassy slopes, poking in soil or sand, paddling, splashing in puddles, finding caterpillars, watching ducks ……

Find somewhere to explore and enjoy in nature. It will do you both good.

90483 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Laura, 6, #554 of 1033 🔗

Yes, I feel true despair as well and I don’t have a toddler to take care of. So I feel for you and am sad for all of the kids who are being screwed over. Mine are 19 and 23 and I’m plenty worried about them, but I don’t have a daily grind with respect to taking care of them and figuring out how to keep things somewhat normal for them. Others have offered useful suggestions; all I can do is commiserate! My husband and I were supposed to be child-free and living the good life now, but we’re absolutely blessed compared with most so I try to keep things in perspective. Just know you’re not alone.

90501 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Laura, 6, #555 of 1033 🔗

When I’m out of ideas with my kid, she enjoys choosing one of these activities:


Don’t wear a mask or if you want to avoid confrontation get an exemption card. If you want to escape maskers for a bit, come to north wales for a break – masks not mandatory in shops and its almost normal here.

90505 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #556 of 1033 🔗

Mr Dee you are really selling North Wales to me.

90519 ▶▶ Olive, replying to Laura, 7, #557 of 1033 🔗

It will get better. It simply has to. But we all know how you feel. Good days and awful days. Days when you can see through it – others when it is heart crunchingly unfair and desperate. Joy has indeed gone – along with manners and reason. I agree. But, as others have told me on this forum, you have to just believe (even if if feels like a lie to yourself) that it WILL get better….. Today is a better day for me, for just having gone for a long walk with the dog. But I know tomorrow may feel hideously unfair again. We have to roll with it, for the sake of making the future better for the kids. But I know its hard and, well, quite frankly, unbelievable that we have all come to this………
All very best.

90661 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Olive, #558 of 1033 🔗

“It will get better. It simply has to”

If you don’t mind, I’m going to steal that and say it to myself every day.

90527 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Laura, 8, #559 of 1033 🔗

I understand how you feel. Like you I enjoy museums, culture and travel but Mr Bart and I have been boycotting them due to the insane antisocial distancing and muzzle wearing.

I heartily echo all the other replies here – hang in there, stay positive and do things where you don’t have to wear a muzzle – spend time in the great outdoors, dine al fresco.And if you must do non essential shopping, do it with your head held high and say that you’re exempt (which is true as muzzles can cause severe distress to a child and even to you). You have the power not to let this insanity take over your life.

90535 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Laura, 3, #560 of 1033 🔗

Laura, it will get better – as others say ditch the mask and get put into the countryside – don’t know where you are but can strongly recommend Norfolk coast – it’s definitely possible to forget about the madness and there’s lots of things for kids to do. We have nen incredibly lucky to be able to shield our daughter from most of this up here.

90570 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Laura, 3, #561 of 1033 🔗

Teach your children well,
Their father’s hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picks, the one you’ll know by.
Don’t you ever ask them why, if they told you, you will cry,
So just look at them and sigh
And know they love you.

Just make things special for them and because they love you it will be special and they will remember. Unless you are in a lock-down area the only laws the police are enforcing are no gatherings of over 30 people and must wear a face mask in shops etc. unless you are exempt and they seem happy with the exempt cards as noted on this site. If you cried for 30 mins you are anxious and are therefore exempt from wearing a mask.
Nothing I can say about your job, the Government have destroyed many people’s jobs, I just hope something works out for you.

90581 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Laura, 2, #562 of 1033 🔗

Hi, thinking of you and, as others have said and will feel, you are among friends and not alone.

90591 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Laura, 4, #563 of 1033 🔗

Laura, on TV this morning they interviewed a lady who was 9 when the Japs overran Singapore in 1942, she and her mother and sister were interned in Changi Jail for 3+ years. Food mainly rice, facilities absent, regime brutal. But what she remembered best was playing with her sister and little friends with some sort of ball, and the day a guard brought them some raisins to have with the rice. Because she was with her mother, she seemed unscathed. You can do this.

90593 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Laura, 5, #564 of 1033 🔗

I cried today. I really despair.
I was in central London yesterday around Bank area in the afternoon. Nearly all the shops and cafes were closed. I have heard that most financial companies and bank are not going back to their offices until at least January. That means many cafes, shops and restaurants in the city will close and many people will lose jobs.

90502 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #566 of 1033 🔗

This is excellent and really worth a watch.

90507 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to ScooBieDee, 14, #567 of 1033 🔗

He always is. His face stil annoys me though.

It’s interesting how he dials his scepticism up and down depending on the interviewee. He was very careful on a couple of occasions with this chap.

One note – the doctor’s comment on masks, along the lines of “remember that the person next to you might be out of the house for the first time since March, so wear a mask out of respect for that person.” If that had been the message, rather than an enforced mandate, I might be prepared to wear one in a shop, but as it’s been imposed on me (and as I know that the fear of the person next to me is artificially created by the people who are trying to force me to wear one) I think differently.

90516 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 2, #568 of 1033 🔗

My son was taking the respect line – though I suspect that will have gone now his mountain-biking trip to the Alps has been scuppered by the quarantine!

90440 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #569 of 1033 🔗

What would you tell your children (or any child) if they ever ask you “why didn’t the world stop to save Grandad from dying of cancer (input anything other than COVID)?”

90510 ▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #570 of 1033 🔗


90478 ScooBieDee, replying to ScooBieDee, 16, #571 of 1033 🔗

From the USA, here’s one to try…


It ask you a few questions. So for example,

[1] “Have you been within 6 feet of a person with a lab-confirmed case of COVID-19 for at least 5 minutes, or had direct contact with their mucus or saliva, in the past 14 days?” Let’s say NO.

[2] “In the last 48 hours, have you had any of the following NEW symptoms? Check all that apply.” Let’s say you select ONLY “headache”.

Result = “Based on what you described, here is what we would recommend: Contact a health care provider within 12 hours. Your answers indicate that you have possible symptoms of COVID-19 or that you’ve been advised to get tested by a public health official. Based on this information, you should speak to your health care provider. ”

A headache! Good grief!

90480 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to ScooBieDee, 17, #572 of 1033 🔗

These last 6 months have been one long headache.

90492 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to ScooBieDee, 4, #573 of 1033 🔗

And, from Ireland,


“200 more cases of Covid-19 ‘deeply concerning'”

Note, DEEPLY CONCERNING. A little bit of digging shows the test positive rate has been decreasing over the last seven days, with the seven day average = 1.2%. During the same period there have been an additional 46,900 tests performed. In the last 24 hours an additional 10,653 tests, with 200 positive, giving a 24hr test positive rate of 1.9%, to be factored into the current average of 1.2%. DEEPLY CONCERNING!!! Give me strength.

90508 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #574 of 1033 🔗

I ticked I had no symptoms, hadn’t been near anybody but I said I had been instructed to take a test by a public health official, it still said I should get tested immediately Crap, how do I find a test centre, quick!

90509 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Two-Six, 1, #575 of 1033 🔗

You’ll probably get a knock on your door…

90513 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, #576 of 1033 🔗

I really really hope not

90575 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, #577 of 1033 🔗

Your state us Deeply Concerning.
You are, in fact, Quite All Right.

90568 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #578 of 1033 🔗

Just done the assessment…my answers indicate I have possible symptoms of COVID-19. Eeeek

Answered yes to “Trouble breathing, shortness of breath or severe wheezing” and “Muscle aches” which was true when I ran 20km this morning 🙂

90571 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to smurfs, 6, #579 of 1033 🔗

Trouble breathing? Shortness of breath?
Take your soddin’ face nappy off.

90482 annie, 8, #580 of 1033 🔗

Another weird thing about zombies.
They can feel enough attraction to another person to want to have sex with that person, while at the same time assuming him or her to be the vector of a horrible killer disease that must be countered by obliterating both faces, plus other precautions innumerable.
Seriously weird.

90484 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #581 of 1033 🔗

How to socialise…

I’ll never forget this farcical article written by a doctor from a kids programme called operation ouch.

Read it and give yourself a side splitter 😂


90488 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #582 of 1033 🔗

Yes I remember hoping I would never be invited to any party hosted or attended by the writer or anyone like him

90498 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #583 of 1033 🔗

“This virus is unpredictable and dangerous – significantly more dangerous than other viruses that circulate in the UK. We have to have quite a high level of paranoia about it.” says the BBC’s resident psychotic hypochondriac.

90506 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Two-Six, 16, #584 of 1033 🔗

Yes, its so dangerous that 83% of people exposed to it in the perfect incubator, the Diamond Princess, either didn’t catch it or were asymptomatic, that includes people sharing the same cabin with a sufferer for 2 weeks.

90578 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Two-Six, 2, #585 of 1033 🔗

I just wish the ‘ministry of truth’ would just fuck off and disappear forever.

90515 ▶▶ Klein, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #586 of 1033 🔗

haha what a fucking clownshoe

90530 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #587 of 1033 🔗

Is the article serious? “I f you’re thinking of inviting a 70-year-old overweight man, I would consider having quite a detailed conversation about the risks they were prepared to accept.”
“You need to find some way of measuring. You could get a two-metre pole, a bamboo cane, a tape measure or a broom or whatever you can improvise with, hold it and spin around in a circle – everyone needs to be able to do that without knocking into each other.” “If you are a man who’s older and overweight and don’t think you’ve had the virus, I would say bring your own cutlery and bring your own coleslaw.””Even then, remember it’s not a risk-free zone. Probably the toilet paper is going to be contaminated – you are definitely taking a risk by doing this.”

90547 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to arfurmo, 2, #588 of 1033 🔗

You spin round with a pick axe handle measuring the distance. You knock out your guests. Can you sue the bbc for writing an article which has taken on the role of thinking for you. In my opinion the writer should be fired. Defund them.

90532 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #589 of 1033 🔗

LOL! Bloody hilarious. I especially like his comment “”We have to have quite a high level of paranoia”. Yes, of course we do! What a tosspot.

90689 ▶▶ Klein, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #590 of 1033 🔗

had another read after a few drinks – this bit is hilarious

“If you’re having people in your garden, you need to do everything you can to signal to them that things are not back to normal and to help them feel safe and you feel safe.

You could ask your guests to set their alarms for every 45 minutes or every hour in a staggered way, then everyone could wash their hands when their alarm goes off. If you’re hosting, say to everyone “we’re all going to wash our hands once an hour”.

Absolutely fucking laughable

90707 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Klein, 5, #591 of 1033 🔗

If I was actually listening to a real person talking like this I would be incredulous, scathing, furious and probably after a few shandys quite fighty. I would be asked to leave the party for sure. How can this guys take himself seriously after writing crap like this. I mean seriously. Like SERIOUSLY….Is he still employed by the bastard BBC?

90717 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #592 of 1033 🔗

I can only assume this is deep, deep satire from the BBC. Well done to all involved.

90495 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 21, #593 of 1033 🔗

Been out for a hike / walk in The Lincolnshire Wold today with Mrs Doubting.

We only saw a few people during the three hour walk, non of them masked, no junping out of our path.

It almost felt like good old normal.

Whilst humans can try to make us change how we live, once we are away from towns and cities nature takes over and we can forget about the current nonsense for a short space of time.

Highly recommended, get away from towns & cities even only for a few hours.

90524 ▶▶ Klein, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #594 of 1033 🔗

A good hike in the mountains or forests helps massively I find

90566 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #595 of 1033 🔗

Nature is as she always was. Only zombies are vile. Get away from them.

90614 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Dave #KBF, 9, #596 of 1033 🔗

I’m stuck in foul Melbourne so it’s not possible for me I’m afraid. The best I’ve got is this or that park which will invariably be crawling with zombies. I can’t even walk when I want to anymore because of their curfew 🙄 So I’m just not at all, as it horrifies me. My exercise consists of using weights as a sort of resistance for a ‘rowing’ action, which because they’re reasonably heavy weights and I’m not muscle bound, it gets my heart rate up nicely too. I miss walking but just can’t with those masks – my being exempt doesn’t help with the anxiety of seeing others wearing them. Knowing that the police will happily brutalise anyone they feel like also does not make the concept appealing, though I will have to venture out soon to get a new prescription – I dread the thought! Frankly I could cope with the curfew and the rest of it much better if they just got rid of the masks 😫

90625 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 6, #597 of 1033 🔗

We can only sympathise, I’m afraid.
When historians write the tale of the Great Insanity, Melbourne will figure prominently as the acme of what human – or rather inhuman – stupidity and evil can achieve.
You will be there as a witness. Cadwch yn gryf!

90632 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to annie, 1, #598 of 1033 🔗

Can’t wait to be out of here. Horrible place, made worse by such appalling government corruption and mismanagement. And before anyone self righteous goes down voting me for criticising the colonial backwater that is Australia, I will note I was born and bred here, much to my long-time despair, so if I can’t criticise it for the dump it is, who can? Wales adopted me (so my friends tell me 🙂 ) and I just want to get back. It would be very nice to be able to hear and speak Welsh again, other than to myself at least.

90636 ▶▶ Emma Townsend, replying to Dave #KBF, #599 of 1033 🔗

Beautiful place, ain’t it? It sometimes literally takes my breath away.

90512 Klein, replying to Klein, 22, #600 of 1033 🔗

Evening all

Just a wee mask update from my wee town in N.Ireland. I’ve actually seen mask use dwindle already since Monday.
Went into the off license bareback again for wine, grumpy old woman on her way out, no mask though. Guy at the till friendly as usual.
The corner shop across the way that does great ice cream, had a look in the window and not one mask from about 8 customers; the staff were bareback too. Some clown went in with a mask shortly after though.

A mate said he was in a real busy motorway garage, and 75% were going bareback. Maybe this place has more spine than I thought…

90529 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Klein, 7, #601 of 1033 🔗

My journey home from work today was rather surprising as there seemed to be less muzzle wearers. Its the first time since I wasn’t the only one unmuzzled.

90543 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Klein, 2, #602 of 1033 🔗

Long may it continue. But just you wait… if there is even the slightest upturn in cases, they’ll get the snitches and sneaks out in force!

90811 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Klein, #603 of 1033 🔗

Is your “wee town” in northern Ireland a ‘republican’ town. Here in the deep South I’m not detecting much of a rebellion at all. For a state established by rebels you’d think there’d be a bit more.

90981 ▶▶▶ Klein, replying to Ned of the Hills, #604 of 1033 🔗

Nah its very much the other sort!!

90528 GetaGrip, 3, #605 of 1033 🔗

Reading the Spectator – excellent article by Kate Andrews ‘False Economy’ – which was a ‘hmm, yes indeed’-fest, and very good for the soul.

But there’s also one about the looming resurgence of the Scottish Independence issue – and a 74% covid-issue-handling approval rating for the First Monster.

So, it needed The Cure – Just Like Heaven, at 90 dbl, plus a Very Large one, or three to be honest, to get the blood pressure and Furiousometer back into the green.
A good weekend, as far as poss, to all!

90534 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #606 of 1033 🔗

That visitor’s experience in Sutton Hoo is unsurprising given that so many museums, art galleries and heritage sites have roped off swathes of their attraction especially the interactive areas which tends to be a hit with families. Which actually makes visiting a waste of time and not worth the money that people have forked out.

Its the same where I work and as a result many visitors don’t really spend a load of time now. Whereas in the past families would spend lots of time given the variety of interactive activities we offer.

90540 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #607 of 1033 🔗

Common purpose will connect public health to culture establishments via a few key posts. The pattern of behaviour by these organisation is one of altering our lives.

90557 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 5, #608 of 1033 🔗

They have been supine and cowardly over these measures that have been the cause of low visitor numbers and decreasing footfall in their allied services such as catering and retail. Yet they’ve been jumping on bandwagons such a BLM.

I have written to a few museums to inform them of my intention to boycott them while this insanity is raging. I’m sure I’m not the only one who have told them that I’m voting with my feet and wallet and staying away.

90735 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #609 of 1033 🔗

The National Unworthy of Trust have been crawling and grovelling from day 1. Even their outdoor properties now have one- way systems. But I have the satisfaction of knowing I am no longer a member, and I told them very clearly why I am not.

90751 ▶▶▶▶▶ up north, replying to annie, 4, #610 of 1033 🔗

First time posting!
I too wrote to them about a one way roped garden visit and then withdrew membership. The visit made me sad and upset and I was no longer going to pay for that experience!

90804 ▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to annie, 2, #611 of 1033 🔗

They were completely pozzed long before the plandemic was unveiled. Rainbow badges for volunteers, all that.

90537 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 12, #612 of 1033 🔗

Is it time to turn the tables on the bedwetters? Most easily brush off excess cancer deaths, suicides etc as they feel they’re engaged in behaviour “for the greater good”. Quite often I’ve been called a eugenicist for raising concerns that the lockdown is a killer.

Well now the figures are in reverse, I think it’s high time to get personal with an attack on the zealots’ core beliefs ie. that they are good people. Maybe an appropriate hashtag eg. #apatheticaboutcancer

90544 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tom Blackburn, 14, #613 of 1033 🔗

You are absolutely right. While I try not to waste time and patience commenting on MSM fear mongering articles, today I couldn’t help supporting someone who was stressing about his “elective” surgery being put off indefinitely. I now always use scare quotes around elective because what is now elective will be urgent soon enough. I’ve said from the beginning of all the insanity that the so-called “good” people were always privileging some lives over others. Same with the false choice between the economy and saving lives — there is no saving of lives without an economy. As time passes it will become very clear that the lockdowns and the hysteria will have killed and maimed far more people than Covid ever could. This is one argument I don’t back away from, so I think you’re quite right that we should point this out as often as possible.

90560 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #614 of 1033 🔗

I’ve had people tell me “it should be people before profit” to which I would always retort “without profit there would be no life”

90601 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #615 of 1033 🔗

The thing is, our stance wins on people and profit arguments

91105 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Tom Blackburn, #616 of 1033 🔗

I’ve been calling people “selfish” for insisting on lockdown over lives for quite a while, especially on the Daily Mail. I have to admit I’ve taken it up a notch lately.

90538 Dave #KBF, #617 of 1033 🔗

Mike Williams (Sage of Quay) is an American sceptic.


90539 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #618 of 1033 🔗

Had Toby ever said how many hits this site generates? From my experience of message boards, for every one poster, there are usually another nine readers who just like to ‘take it in’.

90549 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, #619 of 1033 🔗

I’ve seen 2.5M views quoted. That doesn’t equate to 2.5M individuals though.

90550 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, 5, #620 of 1033 🔗

That will be me clicking refresh

90603 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Two-Six, 1, #621 of 1033 🔗

We’ll call you 1M, me 1M and then there’s the rest.

90553 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to matt, #622 of 1033 🔗

Is that per day, week?

90576 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tom Blackburn, #623 of 1033 🔗

I think that was a total about 6 weeks ago since it started

90656 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to matt, #624 of 1033 🔗

Not sure if it was London Calling or elsewhere but I remember 25,000 hits a day.

90567 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #625 of 1033 🔗

I am of the belief, well hope, that a lot of people look at this site. Maybe many don’t post comments, I know I only do after a couple of gins and feeling especially brave (don’t really do social media and it always feels a bit weird posting stuff – like now) – bit of a Luddite in me ways.

90588 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #626 of 1033 🔗

Well in Kath! Even a small contribution is much appreciated

90592 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Eddie, 1, #627 of 1033 🔗

Absolutely. Nice one for getting involved Kath…

The beauty of this board is you can post any old nonsense and within an hour, it’s gone.

90604 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Tom Blackburn, #628 of 1033 🔗

As I just said to Paaaw – and thank you!

90602 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Eddie, 5, #629 of 1033 🔗

Thank you! I do struggle posting stuff – I’ve been a committed lockdown sceptic since mid April (something just clicked, weird, long story) feels great posting me thoughts – thank you – all of you. Was just thinking back to those horrible times, especially in April and May, if it wasn’t for this site, I’m pretty bloody sure I would have gone completely insane – thanks again!

90611 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Kath Andrews, #630 of 1033 🔗

Keep coming back! I imagine we’ve all of us got at least a couple of gins inside us by this stage of the evening.

90621 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to matt, 1, #631 of 1033 🔗

3 pints of strongbow and half a box of wine

90631 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, #632 of 1033 🔗

Er… 4 strong beers. Unless I left an empty can somewhere else.

90635 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #633 of 1033 🔗

This should be about the time you start telling us how much you love us all, shouldn’t it? 🙂

90647 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #634 of 1033 🔗

I’ve just remembered the two over there on the kitchen counter that I had while I was cooking, so I’m past love and into fightin’.

Probably bedtime.

90643 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to matt, 2, #635 of 1033 🔗

I’m worried about your consumption, matt.

2 strong gins and/or 4 strong beers is nowhere near enough to elicit a spiritual response to lockdown scepticism. One recommends at least 40 units to get a nice, chilled out, angry online presence and enlightened nastiness.

90752 ▶▶▶ up north, replying to Kath Andrews, 4, #636 of 1033 🔗

I’ve been looking at this site for a while but too nervous to post until now!
It’s been so encouraging to read views similar to my own since so few around me seem to care. As all of us, I have many personal experiences of loved ones in care homes not being seen, cancelled appointments, mental health, lost work and rearrangements of daughters wedding to a fiasco with masks, few visitors and no post ceremony celebration. All in all …..

90791 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to up north, #637 of 1033 🔗

Welcome to the real world, Fed up.

90541 smurfs, replying to smurfs, 5, #638 of 1033 🔗

I’ve been distracting myself for the past couple of hours by listening to music from the past, volume 10.

Anyone remember Billy Idol, ‘Eyes without a Face’? He must have foreseen the future with mask zealots amongst us when he penned the chorus lyrics…

“Eyes without a face
Got no human grace,
Your eyes without a face”

“Your eyes without a face
Such a human waste,
Your eyes without a face

And now it’s getting worse”

Official music video

90552 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to smurfs, #639 of 1033 🔗

Just had a listen on Spotify, years go rolling back.

90559 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to smurfs, 1, #640 of 1033 🔗

That is weird…but true

90585 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to smurfs, 1, #641 of 1033 🔗

The new official theme song of this mess, I love it.

I was out and about early this morning walking in our huge city park known as Stanley. Even at just before 7am with not a human in sight there were masked walkers out and about. We apparently had 90 cases in our province (5mil population) yesterday so it must have been a morning of extra vigilance for some.

90756 ▶▶▶ smurfs, replying to Inlakesh, #643 of 1033 🔗

Two great videos. Had an overwhelming sense of claustrophobia wash over me watching Freakshow though – hard to watch in the current climate.

90542 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 4, #644 of 1033 🔗

Ivor for Prime Minister, he listens to the real experts so NO second wave


90546 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to T. Prince, 4, #645 of 1033 🔗

Yep, this link was posted earlier and it is EXCELLENT. Ron Daniels is a bit soft on masks but overall it is really worth a watch.

90545 aiden, replying to aiden, 5, #646 of 1033 🔗

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

90734 ▶▶ annie, replying to aiden, #647 of 1033 🔗

We are the best snd we do NOT lack all conviction.

90551 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Two-Six, 4, #649 of 1033 🔗

Only northern towns are allowed to go into local lockdown. But not busy seaside resorts.

90562 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #650 of 1033 🔗

Huummmm, funny that. Perhaps being a hub of the railway network brings in more covids that are carried on the wind that follows trains. Swindon does have the M4 pretty close to it as well, I bet there are thousands of people breathing out their windows as they drive past which must surely be sucked into town by cars.

There must be some emerging science about this or something that is driving the heightened alert levels.

90587 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Two-Six, 1, #651 of 1033 🔗

A SAGE member got dumped years ago with an XTC record on in the background?

90605 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Two-Six, 1, #652 of 1033 🔗

Swindon isn’t really much of a railway hub these days. Cardiff has much better rail links for instance. My sister lives there (Swindon that is) but is currently on holiday near (12mi from) Aberdeen. She opined that Swindon could well have a local lockdown, but as she’s not currently there she doesn’t care at this stage. She’s too far from Aberdeen to be caught in that lockdown, though it was implemented before her holiday started.

90620 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 3, #653 of 1033 🔗

Very factual. The reality is ant town can end up with extra measures if enough excitement is whipped up (and they aren’t London).

90762 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Two-Six, 1, #654 of 1033 🔗

Every country is going loco.

90555 TomFaz, 12, #655 of 1033 🔗

Frontline Hull City Centre: Attended the rally in Hull today, organised under the StandUp X banner and local offshoot WakeUpHull who apparently can be be found on Facebook, with pics and vids in due course. Piers Corbyn’s lot so not exactly my natural home, but well worth supporting in their anti-mask stand. Maybe just over 100 of us gathered, a good mix of ages, and friendly as indeed Hull folk usually are. Sadly cometh the hour cometh the rain and drizzle. We loyally stuck it out as three speakers attempted to raise our spirits but the wider square had emptied and the few passers-by were hardly inclined to stop – not many converts from the public will have been won today. A minor interruption was two masked morons attempting to take centre stage with an anarchist style banner “accion antifascista”, lack of oxygen to the brain having apparently caused them to confuse Hull 2020 with Barcelona 1936. A march around the centre followed which may have attracted slightly more interest. As they say, from small acorns…

I live out of town and this was my first Saturday visit for a long while. Of the city centre in general I’d say some 10-20% of people were wearing masks in the street, including many young children. Many shops shut, many with “no mask, no entry” signs, none of which seemed to be doing much business apart from MacDonalds. On the plus side I had no bother being maskless in the various shops I did enter, and was positively welcomed in the Post Office – a notable contrast to my local branch run by a particularly grim Karen. The proportion of unmuzzled shoppers was much higher than in my visits to local supermarkets in recent weeks.

90561 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 11, #656 of 1033 🔗

Woodstock prog on PBS – hundreds of thousands jammed together during a much more vicious pandemic that this pantywaist cough. Well I guess this must be a parallel universe because mankind must have died out. Didn’t it?

90563 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James Leary #KBF, 7, #657 of 1033 🔗

I think LSD protected those guys back then

90564 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #658 of 1033 🔗

Didn’t get enough NHS clapping in this year? Then come to big clap on Hogmanay in Edinburgh and virtue signal your hearts out. I’m unclear if any but Scottish are welcome given the recent YouGov poll showing how unwelcome anyone from outside Scotland is. Never the less buy your ticket for an event that was cancelled but is now back on. I think it’s fair to say Underbelly are despised by most locals after years of aggressive commercialisation.


90572 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 7, #659 of 1033 🔗

“There are also plans for a new ‘static’ torchlight procession which would focus on honouring the work of the NHS during the pandemic.”

Yuck. Another psy-op, not a party then.

90613 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 5, #660 of 1033 🔗

Torchlight procession. Seriously? Didn’t the Nazis go in for torchlight processions?

90626 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #661 of 1033 🔗

Seriously. And it was just dreamed upout of nowhere a few years ago. You walk with a flaming tourch to a very creepy area of the city Carlton hill. Historical creep not recent time reputation.

This year’s twist is it’s a static procession because covids like moving targets. Like T-rex if you keep really still they can’t see you.

90700 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #662 of 1033 🔗

NHS projected onto the castle walls….I bet and a weird dance on a big screen done by children being chased by a funny man with goat head and wings who run into a hospital and are SAVED

90582 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 3, #663 of 1033 🔗

Do we have to bring our own kitchen implements to bang together or are they provided?

90733 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #664 of 1033 🔗

No banging ir bonking allowed.

90684 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Basics, 8, #665 of 1033 🔗

I think we should demand a refund for all the services we haven’t received which we allegedly pay our taxes for such as NHS (GP practice and dentist still closed) and education (17 weeks with nothing but work sheets and the occasional inspiring video of teachers pratting around urging students to stay SAFE).

90596 Eddie, 11, #666 of 1033 🔗

“Do everything you can to signal to friends that things are not back to normal”

Does this include grabbing them around the throat, shaking them violently and screaming THINGS ARE NOT BACK TO NORMAL!!!

90606 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #667 of 1033 🔗

Sorry, I know, it’s the Daily Express.

But even so, here’s a good read for you from our good old Richard Madeley!


Don’t agree about the face masks bit though…

90659 ▶▶ wendy, replying to mrjoeaverage, 10, #668 of 1033 🔗

Sounds like Richard has been having a read of some of the articles Toby has put up on the right here. Is it going to turn soon? I can report that no one seems to be paying any attention what so ever to the northern lockdown rules. People have stopped listening to the Government and it’s advisers.

90699 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to wendy, 7, #669 of 1033 🔗

Listening to Simon Dolan and indeed David Icke (had dismissed David Icke for a very long time, but the interviews with Brian Rose are really good – I would say worth a watch), Not going to ramble on, but both commentators (Simon and David)…say – just don’t do it, ignore the ‘rules’ and all of the bollocks, just ignore it all. Of course, if a place of business isn’t open, you cant go and the restrictions around health care – care homes and visiting rules – I am truly lost for words. Don’t know what to say about the health side – it is too shocking and abhorrent. My understanding is – is that it it takes 3,5% of a population to get rid of a govt. Wholesale, en mass civil disobedience. Copying Simon – just don’t do it ‘the choice is ours’……..
PS Please forgive what may come across as naivety – but I do believe that a way out of this is mass civil disobedience – don’t do it

90701 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Kath Andrews, 4, #670 of 1033 🔗

Yep, its easy really, don’t comply. If everybody did it….bing end of nightmare. It’s like stopping smoking, its easy, don’t smoke.

90702 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 5, #671 of 1033 🔗

The problem is….the brainwashing

90705 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Two-Six, 3, #672 of 1033 🔗

I was really worried posting that – just eaten 4 custard creams in panic that
I would be judged…it’s true though – where one can – and it is not always possible (especially around health and welfare …hmmmmmm – want to say murdering c””ts etc,) – just don’t do it. Anti social distancing, chemical filth on your hands – can’t visit friends, family …yadda – and ad finitim – if everyone ignored this (getting communism through the back door etc etc malarkey), I do believe it would fuck off.

90713 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #673 of 1033 🔗

I have read pretty much all of Icke’s books since the first one he wrote right up to the last one. That’s quite a few. I have seen him “live” twice. I used to watch all his videos until it all just got too scary.

Yes he did say people shapeshift into lizzards but he was coming from a pretty strange point of view about reality that he was just trying to understand. I do also think he had a mental breakdown due to the Ayahuasca he took. It’s a very powerful hallucinogen and can easily trigger psychotic episodes.

He has also been systematically discredited by MSM and continues to be discredited. This has taken on a whole new light now hasn’t it?

We know why they want to shut him up, because what he says is right, accurate, well researched, well presented and very very popular.

His 3rd last book “The Trigger” is about 911. It’s incredible, the details involving everything to do with 911 are incredible. All the little bits of information that was seeping out at the time that people were scraping together and holding up for view that was discredited, manipulated, censored, misrepresented, hidden and memory-holed are all in there.

It’s a very scary must read and will help anybody understand a little better why we are where we are now.

Sure you might not agree with some of what he says but then that’s how we form our ideas isn’t it? We take in information, process it, keep it or reject it. That’s healthy It’s interesting.

I would say don’t be ashamed of saying you find him interesting. He really is a very very perceptive human being and his message is sound. For the betterment of mankind. In my opinion. Yes everybody should watch that Rose interview on London Real. It was very good and particularly good for the un-initiated to take on-board.

90721 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Two-Six, -1, #674 of 1033 🔗

You are having a laugh, surely? Was it perhaps the ‘lizzards’ wot done 911?
Here’s another effort by David Icke: “Children of the Matrix: How an Interdimentional ( sic. ) Race Has Controlled the Planet for Thousands of Years – And Still Does Paperback – 31 Jan. 2017″

90757 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Two-Six, #675 of 1033 🔗

Half way through The Trigger now. It’s a weird mixture of Icke and Hitchens that led me down the path of lockdown scepticism very early on in this fiasco. I find Icke’s spiritual beliefs interesting – a form of modern Gnosticism, an adaption of the ancient concept of the Archon – the false god – as the enslaver of divine humanity.

90708 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Two-Six, #676 of 1033 🔗

You are right

90736 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to wendy, 4, #677 of 1033 🔗

I stopped off in Ilkley (Bradford metropolitan) yesterday to visit friends which is supposedly not ‘allowed’. Can confirm that as far as I could tell, nobody is paying a blind bit of notice. Good.

90704 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to mrjoeaverage, #678 of 1033 🔗

I have not heard the Daily Mirror mentioned yet. Did they go out of business?

91087 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to mrjoeaverage, #679 of 1033 🔗

Right below that is this story: https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/1323439/jeremy-clarkson-face-mask-shouted-at-top-gear-the-grand-tour-news-latest-update

I cannot stand Jeremy Clarkson, but this is ridiculous.

91098 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to mrjoeaverage, #680 of 1033 🔗

Hundreds of comments under that article now. Almost all of them anti-lockdown.

90609 Mark, replying to Mark, 39, #681 of 1033 🔗

Peter Hitchens still full of righteous outrage about the coronapanic and what it has been used to inflict upon us. Preach it, Brother Hitchens:

PETER HITCHENS: My suspicion is that the wrecking of the economy and the state-sponsored panic of these times has killed more people than Covid ever did

“Actually, I have had enough. So should you have had enough. The time has come for real discontent, or there will be no end to our mistreatment and humiliation by this Government.

To call these people incompetent would be to pay them an over-generous compliment. We shall see in a minute what might be a better word.
Everything about the figures we are given has been fraudulent and wrong. We will never know how many people were listed as Covid deaths in this country, whose true cause of death was something else.
Even the fatuous Health Commissar Matt Hancock had to accept that for months, his department had been publishing bilge as if it was information.
I promise you here that, when sanity and respect for facts once again resume their reign in this country (if they ever do), then it will prove to be far worse than that.
My suspicion is that the wrecking of the economy and the state-sponsored panic of these times has killed more people than Covid ever did, and the research on this is piling up too, though the BBC would prefer not to mention that either.
If these figures are right (and I believe they will be vindicated by hard research), the Government’s flailing panic killed two people for every three who died of coronavirus – and that is assuming the Covid death figures are not inflated.
The scale of this error is so great that the mind turns away from it. Add to it the slow but relentless destruction of the economy and the catastrophe in the schools, and you have even more to weep over.
It recommended: ‘The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging.’
So the hidden persuaders went to work with their doom-laden warnings, their house arrest, their claims that we are all toxic to each other, and their swollen death tolls.
Now they seek to keep up the anxiety levels by trying to make us wear loose, soggy muzzles.
And here we are, perhaps for ever, unless we begin to show a bit of spirit. Remember how we used to boast about how unflappable we were, with our ‘Keep calm and carry on’ posters. “

90612 ▶▶ Klein, replying to Mark, 16, #682 of 1033 🔗

Peter Hitchens is a God damn Saint.

90623 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Klein, 27, #683 of 1033 🔗

I suspect he’d find the suggestion embarrassing (and I wouldn’t want to try to put it to him to his face), but while I have had my disagreements with his views on some issues (not the coronapanic) I don’t dispute his intelligence, character and experienced wisdom.

But his performance during this coronapanic has definitely qualified as genuine “national treasure” material, if that term could be used seriously. He would, if these things were judged on true merit and worth to the nation, be in the House of Lords and be in receipt of appropriate honours. He was early and consistent in pointing out the unclothed condition of the Emperor.

90637 ▶▶▶▶ Klein, replying to Mark, 16, #684 of 1033 🔗

Yeah there are a good few things I disagree with him on, but I genuinely think he’s a man of principle.
He’s been top notch throughout this whole corona panic.
It was right at the start when I was scared shitless and heard his first talk radio interview, thought he was a bit nuts but started checking out some of the stuff he was saying, and some of the scientists like Sucharit Bhakdi

90617 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 28, #685 of 1033 🔗

the Government’s flailing panic killed two people for every three who died of coronavirus

And considering the likely very significantly younger average age of those killed by the government, their own preferred measure of life years will probably show they caused more loss of life than the virus – already. And the toll from interrupted healthcare and economic decline has barely begun to manifest.

Never forget. Never forgive.

90644 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Mark, 23, #686 of 1033 🔗

A senior nurse tells me regularly of frail very elderly patients perhaps in heart failure and dying, no Covid symptoms but a Covid test is done on all inpatients, if they test positive their death is recorded as with Covid and is another addition to the Covid death figures. But these deaths are not due to Covid in anyway at all.

90698 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to wendy, 13, #687 of 1033 🔗

This is disgraceful, UK and western world populations seem to be generally blind to the deception being carried out.

A work colleague told me on Friday that she still has not been to visit her mum in a West Yorkshire care home as the care home management keep coming up with reasons for her not to visit. She last saw her 80 something year old mum in early March.

90727 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #688 of 1033 🔗

Vicious, callous cruelty.

90677 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Mark, 5, #689 of 1033 🔗

I do not intend to. Ever

90726 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 1, #690 of 1033 🔗

Never. Never.

90618 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mark, 10, #691 of 1033 🔗

Top man, Mr Hitchens. His ‘good night grown ups’ was manna from heaven during deepest lockdown.

90619 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Mark, 18, #692 of 1033 🔗

This heartless smashing of the simple pleasures of thousands is a futile act of spite”. This is exactly how it seems to me too.

90706 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to HelzBelz, 11, #693 of 1033 🔗

They are punishing us. For what reason I have no idea. They are immature, tyrannical, sadistic bullies.

90624 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark, 9, #694 of 1033 🔗

Yer this shit show makes all the keep calm and carry on bolocks look really really rubbish now doesn’t it?

90633 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Two-Six, 11, #695 of 1033 🔗

Turns out we weren’t,or rather perhaps aren’t any more, the people we thought we were.

“Keep calm and carry on” and “stiff upper lip” became “panic and hide under the covers” and “if it saves one life” and “keep safe, above all”.

90638 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mark, 5, #696 of 1033 🔗

“be a shithouse”
“stay at home”
“judge and kill others through my actions”

90665 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tom Blackburn, #697 of 1033 🔗

The proud mottoes of Cool Britannia and the legacy of Blairism..

90645 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 9, #698 of 1033 🔗

Long winded. Sorry, but –
Early on in this debacle, a (former?) friend of mine coopted a WhatsApp group that had previously been about failing to make arrangements to meet for a beer as a place to share “amusing” lockdown related snippets, photos and jokes. Sometime near the end of April he shared a video: scene one. Caption “Italy”. Siren goes off. Chap dives onto the bed and hides under the duvet; Scene two. Caption “Germany”. Siren goes off. Chap (same chap) jumps into the wardrobe and closes the door; Scene three. Caption “UK”. Chap (same chap) seen grinning while washing his hands with Stevie Wonder’s ‘Happy Birthday’ playing in the background.

I replied “oh, fuck off” because I was in a dark place at the time. And then I realised that I didn’t have the energy to explain that “wash your hands a bit more often and try to keep your distance a bit” was in fact clearly the right strategy and that following Italy and Germany into lockdown was a horrific error and how could he, an intelligent man, for a moment think otherwise and, most importantly, IT WASN’T FUNNY.

So I left the group immediately after the fuck off.

Haven’t spoken to him since.

90650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to matt, 7, #699 of 1033 🔗

You did the right thing matt. Zealots will NEVER gain friends through their actions, only lose them

90668 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 5, #700 of 1033 🔗

There will be room for plenty of historians and social scientists to write theses on the cultural bases of the coronapanic in various countries, but especially in Britain I think.

90729 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 6, #701 of 1033 🔗

It will be the biggest academic circus ever. The biggest study of human evil ever conducted.Even the Nazis will take second place. They didn’t succeed in enslaving the entire world.

90728 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 4, #702 of 1033 🔗

As the jobs go crashing into oblivion, of course every zombie affected will say, ‘Well, it’s worth it if it saves one life.’

90747 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #703 of 1033 🔗

They won’t say that once they’re the ones hit on the pocket and stomach.

90634 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Mark, 8, #704 of 1033 🔗

Screenshotted it, I think this was back in May… – a photo of lots of lefty woke blm c^^ts and lefty media shite kneeling to the ground and Hitchens standing up – stoical and gracious. Would post the image…but don’t know how to – Peter Hitchens is a legend.

90651 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #706 of 1033 🔗


90655 ▶▶▶▶ Klein, replying to Kath Andrews, 6, #707 of 1033 🔗

taking the buttock 😀

90662 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Kath Andrews, #708 of 1033 🔗

It was a great pic and a great moment, though he insists (and I believe him) that it wasn’t quite as it seemed. Regardless, he still displayed panache in his handling of a situation that would have sorely rattled most of us.

90681 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Mark, 2, #709 of 1033 🔗

Bloody good photo – and no, nothing is what it seems, i will always remember that photo though, important stuff….rattled… as they/we all may say on occasion..losing the fucking will to live

90682 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Mark, 1, #710 of 1033 🔗

Sorry, feeling sorry for myself…thank you for your comment

90628 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 2, #711 of 1033 🔗

A question’s been going through my mind today, I don’t know if anyone can help.

Does anyone know EXACTLY what the PCR test is testing for? It can’t be the whole virus (that’s not what PCR tests, it tests for protein fragments) and if the whole virus hasn’t been isolated, grown and its antigens determined then it can’t be a specific SARS-Cov2 anitgen. And if it’s a fragment that’s common to SARS-Cov1 (the two are obviously related hence their respective names!) then it isn’t necessarily SARS-Cov2.

Grateful for any information, thoughts or feedback.


90646 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DavidC, 5, #712 of 1033 🔗

I’m pretty sure the viral genome has been sequenced, quite early on by Chinese scientists. From my understanding there are several different PCR tests, each testing for different sections of the genome supposedly unique to SARS-Cov2. I read an interesting article a while back, comparing the tests to looking for a tiger. Some tests just look for 2 sections of DNA (in the tiger analogy, claws and a tail), some for stripes and a tail, and some for claws, tail and stripes (ie 3 sections of DNA). Obviously if you identify all animals with claws and a tail as tigers, you’re wrong. So not all tests are equivalent.

90674 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #713 of 1033 🔗

A. Contrarian,
Thanks for your response, that’s an interesting analogy with the ‘claws and tigers’. To get the specific viral genome, it would require isolation of the virus itself and growth is some medium to concentrate the virus (viruses are quite difficult to culture) from whence a definitive genomic sequence could be done. The PCR is doing nothing like that, it’s amplifying fragments. Are those fragments common to other coronaviruses (I note your comment about the supposed uniqueness to SARS-Cov2)? How do we know the fragments are unique? Is the PCR looking for spike protein or viral RNA fragments and if it’s the RNA (which is normally conatined within the capsid does this mean that some destructive process is used to break out the viral genome or does it mean that the virus has entered the mucosal cells of the nasopharyngeal cavity so that the swab can pick them up? That being the casethen a positive test will mean a psotive infection (which is NOT what’s being said).

I read a while ago that so far SARS-Cov2 has fulfilled none of the Koch’s Postulates (Isolation, Culture, Reinfection producing the same set of symptoms – there is a fourth I’ve forgotten for the moment), I don’t know if that’s still correct.

If I find anything I’ll certainly post it here. I find myself asking more questions!


90884 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to DavidC, 1, #714 of 1033 🔗

I believe the virus can only be grown in very specific conditions and the skills needed (using foetal trachea cells) were all lost when the ‘great Landsey’ Reforms early 2000s closed down the superb Public Health Laboratory Services and replaced them with the Health protection agency which morphed into PHE. The PHLS were truly world class set up in WW2 and retained and resourced. A great deal of expertise & knowledge was lost. This was a catastrophic mistake & IMO has allowed the current crisis to unfold as it has.

90943 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DavidC, #715 of 1033 🔗

Found this


Not sure how it fits with the theory that the virus hasn’t yet been isolated however.

90966 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DavidC, 2, #716 of 1033 🔗

I think we need to be careful with the Koch’s postulates point. It’s true that they haven’t been fulfilled for this virus, but it’s also true that 1) a novel coronavirus has been identified and its genetic sequence has been mapped, 2) something has been causing a not-insignificant number of deaths among the elderly and the vulnerable around the world and 3) evidence of the RNA of the novel coronavirus has been found in a large number of these excess deaths.

Let’s not play on the edges of the idea that the virus doesn’t exist. It almost certainly does and we don’t want to expose ourselves too much to tinfoil hat accusations, because that allows us to be dismissed too easily.

90739 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #717 of 1033 🔗

The sophistication of the answers already given to this question are a clear indication of the problem with current mass testing for Covid. The PCR test is a highly sophisticated diagnostic tool which when used with skill and understanding can be very useful. However, it has been hi-jacked by the politicians and the health tyrants and is being used as if it was a red/green stop/go traffic light type test, which it is not.
It is an insult to the inventor of this test and to those who developed it that it is being used to produce all these figures which are now being used to drive unjustified panic and over-reaction and make lots of money for the mass testing companies.

90792 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Martindale, #718 of 1033 🔗

What a SCAM

90809 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #719 of 1033 🔗

One minor point, the inventor stated that it was never meant to be a quantitative diagnostic test but a qualitative test.

90710 ▶▶ gina, replying to DavidC, 2, #720 of 1033 🔗

https://vimeo.com/443416775 – I listened to this yesterday – recommended by Prof. Carl Heneghan.

90711 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to gina, 2, #721 of 1033 🔗

Thanks Gina. Anything recommended by Carl Heneghan is definitely worth investigating!


90641 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #722 of 1033 🔗

Got to say I will be glad to see the back of the Putin image at the bottom of todays update.

90642 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Dave #KBF, #723 of 1033 🔗

Same here. You’ve got to laugh though.

90679 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tenchy, #724 of 1033 🔗


90670 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Dave #KBF, #725 of 1033 🔗

Decent pair tbf

90676 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #726 of 1033 🔗

They’re not his though, his are pierced…


90648 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #727 of 1033 🔗

Thank you all for signing the #Save Travel letter, it is truly appreciated

90688 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, #728 of 1033 🔗

What is the link again please?

And have you put the link in the forum? The forum seems to be gaining some popularity now.

90649 richard riewer, 1, #730 of 1033 🔗

Insidious infiltration.

90669 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, #731 of 1033 🔗

A little reminder of when you overlook values….


90687 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tom Blackburn, #732 of 1033 🔗

Good old Boris.

90691 Basics, 3, #733 of 1033 🔗

Scottish hospital numbers have fallen by 20 or so after a long period of 260-265 covid19 cases languishing – likely with underlying issues keeping them in. No deaths so this decrease of 20 are discharges. Tiny numbers but worth remarking given the circumstances.


Scottish numbers: 15 August 2020
51 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 1.1% of newly tested individuals.
0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive.
3 people were in intensive care last night with confirmed COVID-19.
244 people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19.
15,323 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results.

These Scot Gov figures routinely haven’t matched the ROS figures.

90712 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #734 of 1033 🔗

A board game like Monopoly based on all this bullshit. Could become a hit and give us plenty of money to take these !@$@$@# to the courts.

90725 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 5, #735 of 1033 🔗

Go into lockdown. Go directly into lockdown. Do not pass Go. Do not collect any human tights.

90732 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 7, #736 of 1033 🔗

Sorry, rights. But you are probably not allowed tights either.

90768 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to richard riewer, #737 of 1033 🔗

Surely The Game of Life No-Life

90714 Two-Six, 1, #738 of 1033 🔗

Well what a top Saturday night. Cheers!

90715 peter, 2, #739 of 1033 🔗

Blue murder > incompetence theory

90731 annie, replying to annie, 4, #740 of 1033 🔗
90759 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to annie, 1, #741 of 1033 🔗

Kind of got to laugh at this point.

Symptoms for the magical virus can be seemingly anything, everything or absolutely nothing. But rest assured we must be terrified

90766 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark II, 7, #742 of 1033 🔗

One of the most common symptoms is opening your eyes after a nights sleep and finding out you’re alive.

90740 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #743 of 1033 🔗

There is a Facebook group with over 6k members. It’s aim is to “boycott opening unsafe schools”

I feel extremely sorry for the members who are still strongly committed to the fear narrative and can any see a slow turn to the truth (admission of case and death over stating) as a lie. They believe the new information is there to convince them to send their children to the unsafe schools. Here’s is the latest article they are up in arms about https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53795439?fbclid=IwAR1RooQuKuyBSQ-nDvVBXmwet5aLHkvuugnLruPkg-BS8KG7IAp65bUKIAs
I’m up in arms about it for a different reasons… it’s # tagline (see article for details) is suggesting our schools are now safe (insinuating they weren’t … which is of course what this Facebook group believes). They want masks, they want PPE, screens round desks, no touching, part time school. You name it, they want it!

Here’s is some anonymised comments from the Facebook group.

As you can see, this level of brainwashing is impossible to turn around.

90741 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, #744 of 1033 🔗

And another pic as could only post one above …

90749 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #745 of 1033 🔗

And one more …

90755 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Country Mumkin, 10, #746 of 1033 🔗

The government has really done a number on these poor sods.

90771 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #747 of 1033 🔗

“The danger is we can easily become complacent and compliant.”

Somebody needs to grow a pair from the sound of it…

90782 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #748 of 1033 🔗

And they are not compliant at the moment, of course.

90784 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #749 of 1033 🔗

Obviously no evidence to suggest these particular ones are but those are the kinds of message I would expect from 77 brigade.

90758 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #750 of 1033 🔗

My god the parent who fails to recognise the insane psychological damage they are doing to their 9yr old with their life of fear.

90765 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Mark II, 5, #751 of 1033 🔗

I went to some gardens on my holiday. Queueing for admission standing on 2m markings. I saw a mother absolutely scream at her son (looked about 8) for walking beyond the line, forcing him to apologise.
It’s so sad isn’t it.

90781 ▶▶ annie, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #752 of 1033 🔗

With parents that stupid, the kids are probably too stupid to benefit from education anyway.
Great, it means smaller classes for the kids whose parents have brains and bottle. And no bedwetting talk ’cause the bedwetters won’t be there.
One presumes that mummy and daddy bedwetter have no jobs to go to and so can provide 24/7 childcare.

90802 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #753 of 1033 🔗

The thing is: Like this “group” here, we are all sceptics, we post sceptical stuff, and we live on here because all we read is sceptical stuff. We like it. We need it. We will not tollerate any of this fear nonsense. Facebook groups are the same, they attract people who all think the same. They will not tolerate any departure from the groups ethos. Both examples are echo chambers, where we say something and we get backed up by people who think the same and this makes us happy.

So a Facebook group that is dedicated to keeping kids out of School because of the dangers of covids is going to hit fever-pitch hysteria and STAY there. Everybody in it re-enforcing the hysteria and getting likes for the most outrageous examples of fear, victimhood, and unreasonable panic will see group members rewarded. The trajectory for fear-mongering goes off the charts.

90887 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Two-Six, 1, #754 of 1033 🔗

You put your finger on an important truth. It’s vital to remember that such criticisms apply to oneself as well. For years I read the Guardian and BBC mostly (online) because I felt it was vital to understand what the other side’s arguments are. And occasionally one is forced to recognise one’s own error somewhere and modify one’s opinion. If you stay too much in an opinion bubble, you lose that corrective and ultimately lose touch with reality.

90936 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Country Mumkin, #755 of 1033 🔗

No one is forcing them to send their kids to school. Why don’t they home educate if they’re that worried? Presumably anyone shielding is either not working or working from home anyway.

90744 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #756 of 1033 🔗

So are we, effectively, ‘going socialist’? The government will have impeded free enterprise to such an extent that it can no longer happen. Millions will lose their jobs, the food supply will dry up (I saw a chilling comment this morning pointing out that “clusters” are most often being ‘found’ in food manufacturing facilities, presumably resulting in their being closed down) and there will be nothing left but for the government to take charge of the economy. ‘Furlough’ is part of the way there already, obviously, and UBI is being talked about a lot. Anyone who thinks they’re going to find new opportunities in this (maybe become a PPE tycoon) will have to understand that everything they earn will be up for grabs by the government so it can be given to people sitting at home without jobs, too scared to leave the house.

90769 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #757 of 1033 🔗

It’s going to take two generations to put this nonsense from government panic right. I suspect the “clusters” are found a food processing plants, simply because these are companies who do not want their product “contaminated” by Corona. I don’t blame them for taking precautions, but the reaction to it is a tad hysterical.

90878 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #758 of 1033 🔗

Yes. But remember these are “far right” socialist collectivists, because our government of Blairite leftists happens to wear a “Conservative” costume.

90748 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #759 of 1033 🔗

This is appalling:


River Island should be ashamed of themselves!

90785 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #760 of 1033 🔗

Look at the comments.

90750 Tim Bidie, 6, #761 of 1033 🔗

Excellent! The NSC has tasked Field Marshal Sir John Harding’s granddaughter and the Joint Biosecurity Centre to grip public health England. Expect PPE to be in short supply over the next few months as most of the nation’s supply is used to mop up the blood on the lavish public health England administration office carpets……where all the epidemic preparation money went……..

Forgive me….I realise this sounds quite mad…..but it does begin to seem as though the grown ups may be taking charge……?

It’s not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It’s the hope I can’t stand…..’


Anyway, a good time to take over..because, as the splendid Swedenborg has pointed out, a study in UAE has demonstrated that BCG boosters work well against covid 19


after a big study showed a significant correlation between countries with good coronavirus outcomes and BCG vaccination programs


In any case, there are now several cures for covid 19:


and hydroxychloroquine

The sheer drivelling nonsense propagated by so many people of reputation who really should have known better has long been apparent to the large numbers of us for whom Nivaquine was a standard prophylactic against malaria, taken non stop for months on end with few apparent ill effects.

Although ‘mental problems’ are listed as a potential side effect………

90754 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 30, #762 of 1033 🔗


Coronavirus: Appetite grows for home working and local lockdowns
King’s College London (KCL) has been tracking attitudes during the pandemic. Results from a survey reveal that 86% believe that, until a vaccine is found, workers should be able to decide whether they returned to the office. Experts said the results show people are prioritising public health over the economy and their social lives. A total of 87% of people questioned said that they would accept local lockdowns being imposed in the future, with 85% saying they would accept their own local area being subject to such limitations.”

Give me strength. I can’t believe we are now nearly FIVE MONTHS into this lockdown (three weeks to ‘flatten the curve’ right?!) and the BBC – meant to be an impartial, measured, truthful broadcasting institution, now nothing more than a propaganda arm for the government – is STILL fallaciously saying that public health and the economy are mutually exclusive. Those who think the economy is separate from health have never lived in poverty, or had to scrape by from day to day, or been deprived of food or sanitation. It’s absolutely astonishing. I refuse to believe that at this late stage of the charade that the British people are still falling for this crap – I’ve seen many more sceptical comments on social media and just out and about generally. I suspect this ‘research’ by KCL may have focused on a biased sample (like a lot of surveys) and this story has been pushed by the government into the MSM to try and gauge support for more local lockdowns in the future. October still isn’t here though; I wait with bated breath, because what goes up must come down at some point.

Toby was right about the ‘collapsing skyscraper’ syndrome – this madness is truly bottomless.

90760 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Poppy, 11, #763 of 1033 🔗

BBC doesn’t tell us how many respondents there were to the survey, nor how they were selected by KCL. Not even conducted by experienced pollsters.

If people still haven’t twigged that you cannot separate economy from health, we only need point them in the direction of countries such as Haiti and Pakistan (just two examples) who ended their lockdowns because they just could not afford to keep them going.

On the bright side, Peter Hitchens’ stance has hardened, somewhat. The clue is in the third sentence:


90772 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #764 of 1033 🔗

this is the BBC.. if on the news they do a quick vox pop they will show interviews with 3 members of the public wearing masks and saying how good it is.. But we know they have ignored a dozen people without masks .

90761 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Poppy, 3, #765 of 1033 🔗

Latest government policy confirmed, surely now they’ve seen this survey it’s more local lockdowns because the public are itching for them! Just like opinion polls putting biden in a massive lead, there is no way that this many people want their freedoms taken away and the local economies crashed for the sake of it.

90799 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Youth_Unheard, 4, #766 of 1033 🔗

Its softening us up, my belief is that the government will try to drag this out until at least spring in the hope that power crazed local government officers will impose local lockdowns (recently devolved to them) because they just can’t stop themselves and so by the time public anger boils over it will be directed at local rather than National government.

Might even see Boris on telly ‘well it’s their responsibility but it seems a tad OTT to keep Leeds in lockdown because a chap saw someone sneeze last month’

90941 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to karenovirus, 2, #767 of 1033 🔗

The government intend to keep this going well beyond spring – they intend this to be the ‘new normal’ that means forever.

If public anger has not boiled over by now – given how transparent the lies are and how completely their essential liberties have been violated which is what will destroy their prosperity permanently – then I do not see it ever happening.

90763 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Poppy, 13, #768 of 1033 🔗

The tendency of the media to double down is as understandable as that of government. The media owns this shit show. They demanded every destructive measure. Now as the lockdown deaths multiply along with the economic carnage, the narrative could quickly turn against our professional opinion formers. They are in too deep to turn back now.

90778 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ovis, 2, #769 of 1033 🔗

It is turning.

90796 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ovis, 4, #770 of 1033 🔗

They need prison. Examples need to be set for all the professional dross that has show itself by silence through all of this.

90770 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Poppy, 5, #771 of 1033 🔗

Am I right in observing that the article is based on a study but doesn’t provide any link to the actual study?

90777 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #772 of 1033 🔗

You are correct, standard practice when wool is being pulled over eyes.

90779 ▶▶ matt, replying to Poppy, 7, #773 of 1033 🔗

One of the few long-term changes to come out of this that I think is now completely inevitable is the trend towards hugely increased home working. There’s been a general push for quite some time in the direction of ‘telecommuting’ but it’s been slowed by reluctance on the part of the employee (presenteeism to signal how hard working and valuable you are is very difficult when you’re not in the office) and the employer (there’s been significant nervousness about the problem of keeping an eye on the worker to make sure they’re actually doing something). Forcing a situation where virtually everybody in an office-based role has been working from home for several months has probably pushed the situation on about 10 years from where we were in March and I’d be very surprised if any company wanted to turn back the clock very far.

First of all, I’d say that I’d be very surprised if even most people who are saying they don’t want to go back to the office are actually worried about doing so, so much as they’re actually happier with working from home and don’t want that to change.

There are significant benefits for the employee (saving time and money on commuting and on lunch; more flexible working hours; potentially more comfortable surroundings) and the employer (reduced real estate costs). It’s also true to say that your average open plan office is actually a very inefficient workspace – too many distractions and interruptions and too little opportunity to shut oneself off and really concentrate.

The British workforce has for a long time had a productivity problem and home working may go some way to solving that. It allows for more – and potentially more productive – working hours per employee and it potentially makes each employee more _profitably_ productive because it reduces the real estate cost associated with each individual having a desk.

However, there are also many negatives – and as with so much that has changed recently, unfortunately they mostly accrue to the young, especially the first-jobbers. People learn their trade and become effective by watching and learning from their longer-in-the-tooth colleagues (learning both how to do it and clocking the ‘we’ve always done it this way’ mistakes for the mistakes that they are). Younger people, especially ones who have moved to a city for that job, socialise heavily with their colleagues. They form friendships and romantic relationships this way. There have been studies that have suggested that a more sociable workplace makes the under 35s more productive day to day. Us over 40s probably have a larger property that we share probably only with our families and are more likely to have (or be able to afford) more dedicated space to work in (and our social networks are probably more established and are less reliant on colleagues). A 20-something May very well have no choice but to work sat on their bed with their laptop on their knees in a flat share, with their flat mate doing the same next door. Not ideal.

There are also enormous knock-on effects in terms of the commercial property market, in terms of the associated sectors dedicated to servicing the property market and in terms of the domestic real estate market. And then there are associated cyber security implications, we will potentially be a real headache.

It’s been pointed out here that it will also have knock on effects in terms of outsourcing and offshoring of jobs (why pay someone to sit in their house in London doing a job when you could pay someone to sit at home in Bucharest to do the same job?). I think that’s likely tru, but only to an extent. The process of offshoring or automating roles has been well underway for quite some time. This may shift over time, but there is a good deal of inertia here and I can’t see a significant number of extra jobs being lost overseas in the short term.

90793 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, 3, #774 of 1033 🔗

For two to three years we have no significant rush hour on Fridays
I put this down to loads of people negotiating one day working from home and mostly choosing to do on a Friday, for some reason.
When I left London 30 years ago Friday was already known as POETS day.

90805 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to karenovirus, 2, #775 of 1033 🔗

And Thursday became the new Friday, partly because of that and partly because you may as well have your hangover on the company time.

90797 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 2, #776 of 1033 🔗

A good analysis. Another place where the age divide is apparent is commuting. People in their 40s buy a house and have a family. Then they lose their job and get another one 50 miles away, but it’s too much trouble to move, the kids are already in a school they don’t hate that much, etc. So they resign themselves to slowly wearing a Vauxhall Zafira-shaped groove in the M40. For these people it would be greatly preferable to work in their conservatory and save three hours a day. But if you’re young you just move to where the new job is and it’s actually more fun to mooch into work on a bike or on foot where you have a proper desk, a better computer, and a water cooler to hang around complaining about work with your friends.

A potentially bigger problem, or change at least, is that actually these days a lot of people are only working for essentially cultural reasons. One day somehow we need to end up like Star Trek with no money and people doing things because they want to. Not clear how we get there though.

90812 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 7, #777 of 1033 🔗

Yes, 40-somethings probably have had a longer commute and so will welcome this more. This is partly for the reasons you say, partly because your bigger house with a garden for the kids is more affordable the further out of town you go and partly because they’ve probably already had more WFH rights as they’re more trusted and so the commute isn’t 5 days a week anyway. This has obviously benefited them during lockdown (again – more space; more outside space).

Housing affordability and how it changes is going to be really, really interesting over the next few years. Will people start moving even further from the office they nominally have to go to a couple of times a month? If so, will that depress house prices in more central locations? What are the implications of that for a nation that currently has a huge proportion of its net worth tied up in heavily leveraged real estate? What do we do with the empty office space if offices only need to be half the size or less to deal with a mostly absent workforce? Do we turn it into flats? Will people want to live in converted commercial real estate in the centre of a city when they don’t actually need to work in the centre of a city? What knock on effects will that have on real estate prices in turn?

I’m going to stop now. When you start disappearing down the rabbit hole of the interconnected economic implications of what’s going on here, it can become overwhelmingly terrifying.

90849 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to matt, 3, #778 of 1033 🔗

There is also a huge amount of economic activity based around facilitating the mass commute to work. The knock on effect of losing this would be pretty big.

90924 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #779 of 1033 🔗

But is that useful economic activity? Could all those people be doing something more valuable than selling sandwiches or driving commuter trains or whatever? Is anyone “modelling” these kinds of things, or is it just heads in the sand

90930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to kf99, 1, #780 of 1033 🔗

It’s only useful economic activity if it is of use to people. So if nobody needs hundreds of trains to be running, it’s not useful to have hundreds of people driving trains. Arguably, having hundreds/thousands of people driving trains and selling sandwiches is redundant in any case, because both things can be automated. The reasons they haven’t been already have to do with 1) unions and 2) human preference for human service and human intervention and 3) cost

91003 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to matt, 2, #781 of 1033 🔗

There is a lot more to facilitating the mass movement of people than driving trains or making sandwiches, much of which is highly skilled and could not yet be automated.

People commute in various ways, and many industries and their supply chains would be decimated, possibly to the point where it would no longer be comercially viable to offer any service at all, or certainly not for a ‘reasonable price’. Much of airline industry for example relies on business travel with tourism being the icing on the cake.

How would you suddenly redeploy all of these people involved in mass travel to something ‘more valuable’. I don’t think you can in the short term. The knock on effects would even reach your local garage who would be changing fewer brake pads and tyres.

More generally, my point is that the mass closure of physical workplaces would have such an impact on all of the industries that have grown up around them, that the economic hit would be massive. It would probably be big enough to cause a recession in itself, and then adversely affect the businesses that closed their offices, and therefore the people working from home. Full circle!

91017 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #782 of 1033 🔗

I’m not suggesting it’s either likely or desirable, just that a lot of it is technically possible. And yes, I agree with you. The implications are complex, phenomenally wide ranging and frankly mind-boggling when you start burrowing into them. And – by the way – many are directly impacting my job and have been for the last 6 months, so I’m very acutely aware.

91116 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to matt, 1, #783 of 1033 🔗

Absolutely, the can of worms that has been opened is huge. It’s mind boggling in the extreme and I have no idea where we’re going to end up!

91133 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #784 of 1033 🔗

Agreed. If feels almost like 1980s industrial decline again but now coming for the white collar workers and the services sector. What will be left this time around?

90874 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 1, #785 of 1033 🔗

The wider cultural implications are also huge in that regard, in that it reduces massively the amount of general social interaction, so that’s going to have to be replaced somewhere. Perhaps neighbourhoods will become more important again, as people spend more time in them.

And as you imply this will provide new impetus for the universal basic income type policies that have been just beneath the surface for a while. But that also has big implications, and the science fiction writers aren’t necessarily correct in their guesses as to what the results will be (In fact, bearing in mind that science fiction famously dates faster than any other form of fiction, it’s pretty much certain they are all mostly wrong imo)..

90984 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark, 2, #786 of 1033 🔗

I bet almost EVERYBODY here has been sent a letter asking them to join Community social media networks. This is the future, Communitarianism, a STASI is being rolled out on the back of community networks.

91120 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, #787 of 1033 🔗

UBI may be one way to get there but I think work and life are also converging from the other end. We can see this in the use of language. In America now you would no longer say that being a chimney sweep (say) was your job. You’d instead say that you were passionate about chimney sweeping.

90895 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to guy153, 2, #788 of 1033 🔗

Another good analysis with which I agree.

I also suspect that people who are currently working from home are only saving money because they are still being paid their ‘big city’ wages, which would have covered their commuting and lunch costs. If wfh becomes more widespread, people stop commuting as much and companies look to cut costs, these workers will surely see their wages reduced. Unfortunately wfh uses up more electricity/gas at home, especially during the winter, and I don’t imagine companies will subsidise these costs. Workers may soon find that wfh saves less money.

90814 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, 6, #789 of 1033 🔗

People should look into “working from home software”, its pretty scary the way it logs everything you do. It can measure your mouse activity, how long you spend thinking about what to click on, how often and what you click on, your work flow, it can give access for your boss to remotely observe you, your screen, what you type, how many errors you make and correct, the web pages you visit, screen caps, what applications you open, how long you use them for, every email and SM thing you do…Its very very intrusive. I wonder how many people will be willing to work from how when they find out that they are checking into a virtual high-security prison ever morning.

90824 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, 2, #790 of 1033 🔗

well said and I suspect most people don’t realise this.
virtual prison indeed..

91049 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Two-Six, 1, #791 of 1033 🔗

So only use the work laptop when working from home. Get your own laptop and use a VPN for personal stuff.

90838 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 1, #792 of 1033 🔗

I think we also need to review what causes the “productivity problem”. It is not necessarily that individuals are unproductive, just that some parts of an organisation are unproductive.

As an example, does a company need four layers of management when two would do? In my experience, layers of management proliferate when someone wants to ensure the blame stays away from his/her own desk. A large company I know complained of significant gaps in its management team, yet its productivity overall improved at the same time. And investigations showed that this was not merely coincidental, which brings me to…

As another example, do employees face interruptions to their workload? Are there excessive meetings, or meetings that involve people who do not need to be involved? Are there company regulations that interfere with production? Is there excessive management interference?

Are there methods that can be used to enable employees to work “smarter”? Is the software they use up to date and efficient? In physical jobs, is tooling up to standard? Are there ways to lighten the physical load so employees do not tire, or do not tire so easily?

Are employees empowered? Is there a no-blame culture? Do employees feel safe to speak out about either bad practices, or suggestions to improve the workspace. Yes, there are always a few who are going to bend this for assumed advantage. But as a final point the vast of majority of people do not come to work to do a bad job .

Just my penn’orth.

90885 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #793 of 1033 🔗

Good points. A couple of responses:
– from experience, it’s very difficult to manage more than about 6 direct reports effectively. Most managers nowadays are “player-managers” with jobs to do as well as directly managing their employees and managing people can be very time consuming (depending on the people and partly depending on the amount of pastoral care they need). This is one of the reasons that management layers proliferate, but not the only reason.
– excessive meetings are a problem, unquestionably. Meetings are often another example of the mentality behind presenteeism – if my diary is completely full I must be really worthwhile and I also get to complain virtuously about not having the time to do my actual job during the working day. Management also has a tendency to generate meetings for a similar reason.
– there is a correlation between flexibility of labour regulation and productivity of the workforce, but it’s not necessarily what you would expect. The UK is more productive per employee than the US (which has pretty much the least productive workforce and the most flexible labour laws in the world). France is more productive per employee than the UK. Part of the effect seems to be that, when it’s easier to fire people, it’s easier and less risky to hire people and so you’re more likely to hire an extra person to pick up extra workload than you are to try to squeeze every morsel of productivity out of the workforce you do have
– investment in tools and automation is related to the last point above. The more productive you _need_ your workers to be in an individual basis, the more likely you are to spend money on tools to help them or replace them. This is one of the reasons we (and the US) have had such low employment until Q2 of this year. Simply easier and less expensive short-term to get people in to do repetitive and boring jobs than to automate the jobs or buy tools to facilitate people doing them more efficiently

90862 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #794 of 1033 🔗

Good summary. The implications for both commercial and residential property alone are going to be massive economicallv, because those have been significant drivers of our economy for decades now.

90888 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to matt, 5, #795 of 1033 🔗

I agree with everything you’ve said. But it makes me sad to think of a move towards increased home working – everyone isolated in their own bubbles at home, decreased connectivity and socialisation. I am in my early twenties and I hate the idea of home working. I recently worked in an office and had to work from home for part of lockdown and I absolutely hated it, mainly because I lived alone and relied on the office for some of my social life. I also felt very ‘siloed’ stuck at home all day, unable to draw a distinction between home and work life. I now have a job which simply cannot be done from home (retail/hospitality) so all these home working zealots rub me up the wrong way even more.

The only people who want to work from home most or all of the time are time-poor adults with families, or people who hate their jobs. They should be careful what they wish for, because as you say, if their job can be done from home, why not from India for a fraction of the cost?

91036 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, #796 of 1033 🔗

It’s true that this crisis has speeded up trends that were already happening.Working from home,less use of cash,less business travel,remote meetings etc.
The problem with this is that it destroys a lot of the economy and with the 4th Industrial on the horizon even more jobs with be lost to A.I. and automation.
That leaves the powers that be with a problem,a whole lot of more useless eaters.
I think that the control and security grid that is being implemented at the moment is to forestall any restistance to our new normal.

90823 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Poppy, #797 of 1033 🔗

Another take https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8631783/Britons-accept-local-lockdowns-Covid-vaccine-survey-finds.html bit that gets me is being content not to attend live sport . Really?

90764 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #798 of 1033 🔗

Back from a week’s holiday at the coast. My wife and I both agreed that it was ‘diminished’ by the Covid stuff.

But I think that most people we saw were carrying on as if this is just a temporary blip. 99% wore their masks seemingly without resentment – or even seeing it as a partially positive thing, allowing them to choose one in their football team’s colours, for example.

Two out of four of the village’s pubs were closed, seemingly permanently. Other establishments were serving takeaways only, from serving hatches.

Families still seemed nervous of getting too close to other families when passing on the pavement, but the general vibe was that of the normal seaside holiday.

Putting myself in the position of one of our government officials, I would be worried. Many people are not completely miserable; some people are still running businesses despite the artificial obstacles; families are still having a reasonably good time. Surely this must be stopped.

90774 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #799 of 1033 🔗

Don’t tell ’em Pike!

90889 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #800 of 1033 🔗

It will be stopped. They are not just going to end their destruction of our economy and subjugation of the population.

90767 Adam, replying to Adam, 16, #801 of 1033 🔗

Toby’s article in the Telegraph in the French quarantine being a sledge hanmer to crack a nut is as usual, bang on the money. And, if you plot the French cases as a fraction of daily tests as I have done, the trend is that are DROPPING still, not rising.

90773 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Adam, 6, #802 of 1033 🔗

And that, I suspect, is the same everywhere in Europe. Including here.

90775 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #803 of 1033 🔗

But the fear, panic and paranoia pandemic is still going full blast!

90821 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 1, #804 of 1033 🔗

Yes :o((

90985 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to annie, #805 of 1033 🔗

Got to keep the fear alive, that’s what this entire farce is pivoted around.

90967 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Adam, #806 of 1033 🔗

More of a nut to crack a sledge hammer (completely useless, the hammer does, at least, squash the nut).

90776 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 17, #807 of 1033 🔗

An apology to all those who responded so kindly to my rant about the woman who came to my shop after I had closed and basically accused me of being a slacker (and all the other really kind responses, especially the ones about the way the NHS treated my late mum and Paul, if you are there, I’m sorry for how your daughter is treated at work – porters do an un-sung brilliant job and, in my sad experience, they could have taught the doctors a thing or two about empathy).

You must all think “blimey, that kh is a right bugger, she doesn’t respond to our comments” Unfortunately, I am having real problems with my internet supplier at home (in fact, I have no phone line at all and haven’t had for the past three weeks!) so can only post during my time at work and that time is limited.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to you all (the original comment is so far down thread now so I thought I would post this at the top). You guys really are keeping me going and thanks so much Toby for the platform. This site is brilliant – the info’, the laughs – some on here really could give the fab Andrew Lawrence a run for his money. Which prompts to me to ask, where is Insp’ Det’ Serg’ Constable Peter Piss-Pott of Twat Valley Police …..?

Thanks again everyone ….

90789 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 5, #808 of 1033 🔗

I’ve been busy and missed your thread, one thing our Porters do is accompany Doctors who want to visit the morgue since they, the Doctors, are not allowed to go there on their own, wonder why that may be.

90798 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 2, #809 of 1033 🔗

Really? If you’re saying what I think you are saying, that’s scandalous …

90834 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 3, #810 of 1033 🔗

They are scarred of dead bodies? I was a hospital porter once upon a time, the best job I ever had.

90870 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 3, #811 of 1033 🔗

Think it’s more to do with tampering with evidence as alluded to by kh1485

90881 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 4, #812 of 1033 🔗

A hospital porter story, It was nearly lunch time, the highlight of my portering day, got a bleep to attend the mortuary to go and do something, pick up a thing can’t really remember. in I went and oooh deary me, a corpse all burned on the table, I only saw the head, a guy who was in a car crash. That put me off my lunch. The thing is it was a set-up, almost all the other porters and maintenance staff knew that I had been sent in there because they knew of the nasty corpse. They were just messing with me…Oh how we laughed.

Those guys…

90801 ▶▶ anon, replying to kh1485, 2, #813 of 1033 🔗

if you have a relatively modern mobile phone you should be able to create a WiFi hotspot on it to use at home until your internet is sorted

you’d need a mobile signal at home and worth checking how much data you can use (usually a reasonable amount included if you subscribe though payg would work too)

90808 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to anon, 1, #814 of 1033 🔗

Thanks anon for the info’. I am one of those dinosaur types who just has a crappy old Nokia (just a telephone and text thing). I am *hoping* my internet will be restored later this week.

90828 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 3, #815 of 1033 🔗

You might be able to find in a junk shop a wind-up internet machine. They had them in the war, they wound this handle, vvvrrrr-vrrrrr-vrrrr and the internet came on.

90847 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to kh1485, 1, #816 of 1033 🔗

Ok well some of the older phones do actually support this, could be worth checking. usually in the WiFi settings somewhere

90854 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to anon, 4, #817 of 1033 🔗

Most old Nokia basic phones don’t even have wifi. I also belong to the dinosaur brigade. Hey ho, it also means you cannot use the track and trace app as no blutooth either.

90859 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to davews, 3, #818 of 1033 🔗

Exactly. Mine’s one up from two baked bean cans and a bit of string!

90860 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to davews, 1, #819 of 1033 🔗

ok well thought it could be worth checking. I’ve got some old phones kicking around and was surprised a few of them had this feature

v wise to carry an older text / phone only mobile when you’re out and about!

90979 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to davews, 1, #820 of 1033 🔗

Ah the wonderful days of the Nokia 3200.

90996 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dave #KBF, #821 of 1033 🔗

3200! Just like the fine 🙂

90852 ▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 3, #822 of 1033 🔗

Pisspot may be on leave, or hunting the barefaced through the urban jungle.

But here is theincomparsble Andrew having a swipe at Ben and Jerry’s:


90873 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, #823 of 1033 🔗

Thanks Annie for the link. Andrew Lawrence wonderfully savage as always!

90908 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 3, #824 of 1033 🔗

Don’t worry about it Kh,you are working long hours and having to deal with the zombies everyday on the frontline so even without having your phone cut off I’m surprised you’ve got any time for yourself !.
I agree this site has been a godsend,there are only three things that have keep me from going over the edge in these past months,Toby’s site with the brilliant discussions between like-minded souls from the detailed breakdowns of statistics and laws,the anecdotes from interactions in the ‘real’ world and especially the humour and kindness,then there’s Carl Vernons Youtube videos and finally my five mile walk in the countryside with our dog at dawn everyday although getting soaking wet on the way home this morning did take the shine off a bit !.

90780 mjr, replying to mjr, 15, #825 of 1033 🔗

Last night C4 showed the film World War Z. The premise of this film is that an unknown virus that turns people into ravenous zombies who obviously spread the virus around the world at great speed in the usual zombie way – eating people.
Spoiler alert. People (Brad Pitt actually) realises the zombies ignore people who have a fatal disease or condition (as being a bad host) so they infect everyone with a different virus (or bacteria – i lost the plot a little) so the zombies ignore them.

Now 2020… in the real world we have a virus that rushes around the world that is slightly fatal to a small proportion of the population, and for most people causes a slight cough or is unsymptomatic. WHO, governments and MSM turn the population into Zombies by infecting them with fear and misinformation. To cure this they will infect everyone with a different virus .. (called a vaccination)..

the parallels!!!!!!!

90788 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 1, #826 of 1033 🔗

I have that on file but didn’t pay it much attention because it’s based on a comic or computer game.
Must give it another look thanks

90830 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to karenovirus, 1, #827 of 1033 🔗

It’s based on a book and the book is actually really good. Much better than the film IMO.

Resident Evil might be the one you’re thinking of that’s based on a game. Not a bad film but if we’re honest it’s just a zombie splatterfest with none of the social commentary.

90851 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 2, #828 of 1033 🔗

That suits me fine. The social commentary just annoys me anyway – just another way for champagne socialists and elite wokeists to propagandise the population.

A big part of how we got to where we are.

90858 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to guy153, #829 of 1033 🔗

Thank you for that, I’ll watch it while sobering up later !

90841 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mjr, 4, #830 of 1033 🔗

Hollywood only exists to pump out propaganda and brainwashing. Most films are “pre-programming”, to set the scene, or sow seeds to enable or unlock agendas. Just look at all the virus movies that have been made. Loads of them. They have worked so well, real life is like a movie script and people can’t tell the difference any more.

90864 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 1, #831 of 1033 🔗

The Chinese invented a new pictigram for Hollywood woke posturing translates as ‘white liberal shit’.
China is now the world’s biggest consumer if cinema movies so wake up Hollywood.

90914 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to mjr, 2, #832 of 1033 🔗

The film I think most resembles the current state of affairs must surely be Shaun of the Dead…

91865 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, #833 of 1033 🔗

The ground floor flat in Shaun… was on my way to school for 7 years.

91009 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to mjr, 3, #834 of 1033 🔗

One particular Zombie film that got my attention was Doomsday which I watched only a few months before all this happened. I think this is what NZ has been trying to achieve isolating the rest of the world from itself.


In 2008, an unknown killer virus, known as the “Reaper Virus”, has infected the country of Scotland. Unable to contain the outbreak or cure the infected, the British government builds a massive 30-foot wall that isolated Scotland from the rest of Great Britain. Whilst the quarantine was deemed a success, the extreme method employed by the government destroys diplomatic and economic relations between the UK and the rest of the world. Now a pariah state, the UK collapses into a dystopia, rife with unemployment, civil unrest and extreme economic turmoil.

91866 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, #835 of 1033 🔗

Yes, got that too, great movie.

90783 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 11, #836 of 1033 🔗

I decided yesterday not to introduce the Covid in any conversations I might have and also not to immediately come out as a sceptic.
From 9 or 10 such only one ended with my interlocutors view unchanged, she has diabetes so fair enough but she had no mask despite us being indoors.

A public transport manager told me (it’s a bit third hand) “My brother-in-law works in admin at the hospital, they were told early on that anyone who Came Into Contact with a Covid patient and who subsequently died were to be reported as Covid deaths.

A woman told of a friend who still refuses to let her child use the reopened playground outside her front door. Her reason for believing them still to be dangerous:
“Must be else why were they locked up for so long, stands to reason don’t it”.

8 out of 9 people thought masks were bollox and maybe Covid was/is too.

90787 ▶▶ matt, replying to karenovirus, 12, #837 of 1033 🔗

“Must be else why were they locked up for so long, stands to reason don’t it”.

We blame the MSM and the explicit government propaganda for generating the fear, but don’t underestimate the degree that the lockdowns and the draconian rules themselves played in raising the panic levels. “If they’re doing this, it must be bad!”

90844 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 6, #838 of 1033 🔗

Exactly so. Same reason that masks actually increased the levels of fear, rather than reducing them (if that was, as suggested, the government’s aim in imposing them).

90800 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 4, #839 of 1033 🔗

An exaggerated yawn when hearing the words ‘second wave’, works well

90790 Basics, replying to Basics, 26, #840 of 1033 🔗

It’s just happened! A maskless face spotted in the aisles of a supermarket I was in. I don’t shop frequently but it has been a long time coming.

90794 ▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 10, #841 of 1033 🔗


I saw one on Friday too. long time coming as you say..

90803 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Basics, 16, #842 of 1033 🔗

I was really pleased to hear a recorded tannoy announcement at Sainsbury yesterday asking customers to be respectful of others not wearing a mask as they may have hidden disabilities. That’s really positive and all shops should make this known in notices on the door.

90817 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Albie, 6, #843 of 1033 🔗

I’m kinda missing the buzz of 2-3 weeks ago when it was ‘once more unto the breach dear friends’.
Easy Peasy now

90820 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Albie, 10, #844 of 1033 🔗

I wish there was a tannoy announcement saying that people should just be respectful of others’ right to uphold their own personal liberty, in that we should be free to not wear a mask purely on that basis.

90836 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 7, #845 of 1033 🔗

As the current panic has shown, we have no such right in this country (or rather, the right we have is not respected by the government and the political and media elites in general).

Which means imo we need a new government and new political and media elites.

90877 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Mark, 4, #846 of 1033 🔗

A new court system as well to prosecute the old government, political and media elites appropriately.

90994 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #847 of 1033 🔗

Indeed, they’ve failed us as well so far.

91183 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Watt, replying to Saved To Death, #848 of 1033 🔗

How about a court system complete with Jury! Remember them. Took a fair few centuries to establish, then washed away one wintry day in March. Oh well.

90845 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 10, #849 of 1033 🔗

Tannoy should be ‘it’s all bollocks really so suit yerselves’.

90856 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 4, #850 of 1033 🔗

That’s what I say to my customers, though not over a tannoy!

90947 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 9, #851 of 1033 🔗

Hello, I am applying for the position of ‘Person who stands outside cafe shouting “It’s all bollocks”. I have considerable experience in public abuse matters, and don’t play well with others.

90957 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, #852 of 1033 🔗


91186 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Watt, replying to Sam Vimes, #853 of 1033 🔗

I hear you! I will be right there in the queue!

90807 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Basics, 18, #854 of 1033 🔗

Went into CoOp with sister yesterday, barefaced of course. Weren’t sure we could shop together but decided to go for it. So had 2 other barefaced ladies spotted at the till. Double bingo!!

90827 ▶▶ PaulC, replying to Basics, 10, #855 of 1033 🔗

Saw 2 maskless people in Lidl yesterday – again never seen this before. However woman in front of me at the checkout asked me why I wasn’t wearing a mask; I was totally shocked and just pointed at my lanyard. Should have asked her who she was to ask me.

Q: Does anyone in ‘authority’ have the right to know the reason we are exempt?

90839 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PaulC, 5, #856 of 1033 🔗

Not sure if the Police are allowed to ask but they certainly cannot ask to see your medical records short of Court.

90922 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to karenovirus, 3, #857 of 1033 🔗

The guidance says something like only an official, such as a police officer or public health official can ask for the reason of your exception.

I think even then you do not need to go into fine detail; chest complaint, asthma; COPD, stress, mental health, autism, lip reading, etc. etc.

Be polite, say you are exempt, only tell an official, acting in their official capacity (not someone in a shop claiming to be a PC) what your issue is.

They want us to use these exemptions or they would have made the regulation so tight that few people could find a reason to not be masked.

Do not be afraid of the new £3200 fine, that is for extreme breaking of the rules such has holding an unofficial rave, or similar type of event.

90993 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #858 of 1033 🔗

The £3200 is the maximum the no facemask penalty can rise too after doubling each time its issued to the same person.

The fine for organising a gathering of 30 or more people which they claim is to be used for situations like an illegal rave although much more likely to be used against those organising anti lock down protests is much higher – £10K or something cannot remember the exact figure.

91002 ▶▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Dave #KBF, #859 of 1033 🔗

make sure you video any exchange as evidence.

90940 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 2, #860 of 1033 🔗

Pretty sure (without going through it again) there is no provision in the law for anyone to ask about your exemption definition. A ‘relevant person’ can ‘Direct you to wear a face covering’ or ‘Direct you to leave’.

90865 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to PaulC, 4, #861 of 1033 🔗

A: No. It’s between you and your doctor.

90882 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to PaulC, 3, #862 of 1033 🔗

If I am harassed by a member of the public I intend simply to suggest they call the police and leave me alone.

90883 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to PaulC, 1, #863 of 1033 🔗

I would’ve said,’never mind my face mask,how long have you been without the use of a functioning brain ?’.

90927 ▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Paul, 11, #864 of 1033 🔗

Some woman asked my 75year old Father in Law why he wasn’t wearing a mask he told he “because I’m not as F**g ugly as you ” she soon scuttled off,haha I could of told her that won’t go well he’s an old school South Londoner not afraid of anyone

90934 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #865 of 1033 🔗

Love it,good for him,sounds like a bit like my dad,no nonsense old school.

90946 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #866 of 1033 🔗

We need more like that not like one person I questioned last week, why are you wearing a mask? Because it is easier, I am a follower. I know this person has reduced lung capacity following an accident in the military.

Is this what we have become.

90950 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Basics, 4, #867 of 1033 🔗

Yesterday I saw a young couple and their two children all shopping together! And all maskless. I said to the young woman “Nice to see another non-mask wearer!” to which she replied “Oh I just can’t wear one!” I was rather hoping she might have been more forthright though….

91065 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Basics, #868 of 1033 🔗

I’m seeing more on the buses here in Bournemouth. Still not many but a few. Usually without any visible exemption card (I’m still using mine).

90795 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 11, #869 of 1033 🔗

I asked recently how many people had been fined for twice not wearing a mask on public transport – after it was announced such fines were to be increased.

The Daily Mail provides a sort of answer:-

“it emerged at the weekend that just 33 fines have been issued since June 15. This was despite the fact that police had stopped almost 30,000 people to warn them for not covering their faces.”

Mail Online 15th, August.

So the maximum number of people fined more than once can’t be higher than 16 – I suspect the true number is none at all.

So a scale of fines is being introduced to tackle a problem that probably doesn’t exist – and if it did it probably wouldn’t be needed anyway.

Consider. The scale of fines is to run thus:- £100, £200, £400, £800, £1,600, £3,200 Bingo! It ends there seemingly. Six offences – total bill £6,200.

(Perhaps there is some legislation that prohibits success fines being more than double?)

How many offenders are thought to be out there prepared to tot up a bill of £600 (six offences at £100 a time?) but not £6,000? Such recalcitrants are surely just as likely to stick two fingers up at £6,000 as they are £600?

But it provides a punchy headline:-

“£3,200 fines for shunning face masks”

Passengers will now think they face £3,000 fine for not wearing a mask on a bus train.

And as to that 30,000 figure – are we to take it that the transport police are filling in daily tallies?

90806 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Ned of the Hills, 13, #870 of 1033 🔗

Just the sentence Police warning people for not covering their faces is enough to send a chill through my bones

90810 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Ned of the Hills, 8, #871 of 1033 🔗

Don’t see how any fines have been issued. The Regs are unenforceable in respect of anyone who has read the reasonable excuses in Reg 4. How can the police know if your severe distress is real or not as its subjective.

90816 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Fed up, 15, #872 of 1033 🔗

You have to assume that the people being fined are contrarian buggers who simply tell the police that they won’t wear a mask, so piss off. I rather admire that, but I don’t think I’ll be going down that route if it ever comes to it.

90818 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Fed up, 14, #873 of 1033 🔗

i think Awkward Git said this several days ago, if one of us awakened ones have the misfortune to be issued with a fine by an overly zealous copper, the best strategy would be to not pay. The good people on this site can chip in for the best barrister and we can get our day in court!

90832 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Fed up, 7, #874 of 1033 🔗

Yes. Seems unlikely they’d want this to be tested in court atm, for a number of reasons.

90907 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Fed up, 1, #875 of 1033 🔗

That will be my plan…

90829 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Fed up, 7, #876 of 1033 🔗

The process presumably is that they issue you with a penalty notice if they don’t believe you have a legitimate excuse, which you either pay (effectively admitting the offence) or don’t, in which case the prosecuting authorities decide whether to bring you up before a magistrate to convict you of the offence.

If they don’t choose to drop the matter (which will be mostly a matter of policy in this case I suspect, though it could be based on particulars of the individual and of the case), then you would have to go to court to persuade the magistrate that your excuse was true and within the lawful reasons for not wearing a mask, so the magistrate would have to decide if your claim of “severe distress” or “asthma” or whatever is convincing or not. At that stage things like medical records would presumably be admissible.

90835 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, 6, #877 of 1033 🔗

That’s after they have dealt with a 5 month Court backlog because they are still not functioning.

90837 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to karenovirus, 3, #878 of 1033 🔗

Good point.

90840 ▶▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Mark, 13, #879 of 1033 🔗

Yes I believe so. Though I’m not sure what medical records will be available for severe distress as none of us have previously been forced to cover our faces and the doctors have been effectively shut since this started.

90843 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fed up, 3, #880 of 1033 🔗

It would be doubly interesting as the courts insist on face nappies when being brought through security

90900 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Fed up, 3, #881 of 1033 🔗

Doctors have been instructed not to get involved with any form of exemption letter etc. so we all have to make our own determination as to wether we have reason to be exempt.

Also interesting that “33” tickets have been issued, has anyone seen anything about an actual person who has received a ticket? I would have thought MSM would have loved to push the fear of getting a fine for not being compliant.

91233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Dave #KBF, #882 of 1033 🔗

33 you say?

90978 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Fed up, #883 of 1033 🔗

It would come down to the magistrate’s opinion, so it would probably be up to you to bring in a medical expert or records in your defence if you wanted to, presumably.

90929 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark, 1, #884 of 1033 🔗

Just guessing here, Mark, but isn’t it a fixed penalty notice? So, if you don’t pay up, isn’t it then just a simple matter of non payment, i.e. it doesn’t get as far as what your exemption is? Never had a fine, or lived in this mad new world before, so I dunno.

90987 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sam Vimes, #885 of 1033 🔗

As I understand it, it would depend whether you just ignore it, or contest it. Because otherwise it would be explicitly giving police powers to punish without a trial. I presume the theory is that if you don’t contest it you are implicitly accepting the fine.

Things like speed limits, penalty notices etc are all basically to make life easier for police and authorities.

90933 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mark, #886 of 1033 🔗

I think magistrates can make some sort of attachment to earnings/incomes order. Only if you live on ‘private means’ or are self employed can you avoid paying. Then, I believe, they can put you in prison.

90968 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Ned of the Hills, #887 of 1033 🔗

Yes that’s right… as everyone around for the Poll Tax rebellion in the early 90s will know.

90992 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ned of the Hills, #888 of 1033 🔗

Only if you ignore the ticket or contest it and lose in court, I think (though I’m no expert and would obviously defer to one on this).

90925 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Fed up, 4, #889 of 1033 🔗

They aren’t even empowered to ask about details of your exemption, just to “Direct you to wear a face covering” or “Direct you to leave the store”. Oh, and “Use reasonable force” when doing it, hmmm.

90813 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Ned of the Hills, 11, #890 of 1033 🔗

Are these people who are receiving fines making some sort of stand? Otherwise why not say “I’m exempt”

No proof needed.
No need to explain why.
No need to even carry anything to prove it, according to the government website.

I wonder if the police ever ask them if they are exempt or do they simply go ahead and fine them. I suppose it would be regarded as a leading question!

91177 ▶▶▶ Watt, replying to Margaret, #891 of 1033 🔗

Living in London, I have not worn a mask since early in this BS. Well before the ’24/7′ edict. I have not yet been challenged in the tube or elsewhere, except one time in a pharmacy, where my answer was understood and accepted. That aside, surely we should be marching to ‘lockdown cities’ and setting them free. It will be ‘us’ next, don’t forget!

90831 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #892 of 1033 🔗

The public transport manager I mentioned a little earlier here also told me of being with his British Transport Police mate who pointed to “that guy is the only person I have given a (no mask) fine to and it was because he spoke to me like a complete knob”.
He did not expect it to be paid.

90920 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #893 of 1033 🔗

To get to one fine, you would have to:

Go into shop/bus without mask
Be challenged
Say you refuse to wear (not exempt)
Be asked to leave
Call Police
Police actually turn up
Negotiate with Police
Refuse to wear mask
Refuse to leave store/bus
Get fined.

All that, for one fine. And then do it all again? Instead of just saying “I’m exempt, thank you”?

The repeat fines are not going to happen, but what will happen is (as mentioned) the sheep now think it’s an instant £3200 fine for one offence, just like we all have to wear masks and wearing one will save your life, and you have to give T and T details by law.

They know what they are doing.

90995 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #894 of 1033 🔗

Good breakdown of the lengths people will have to go to to collect a fine for not obeying the face mask directive.

90822 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 8, #895 of 1033 🔗

Now for the paranoid question. If you have a swab taken from your nose and mouth, which you do yourself and so is voluntary, then those swabs may contain SARS-COV-2 but what they definitely contain is your DNA, what is happening to that DNA?

90842 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to p02099003, 11, #896 of 1033 🔗

Don’t know, don’t care.

I will not submit to an assault on my person for no justifiable medical reason.

90892 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to p02099003, #897 of 1033 🔗


91035 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to p02099003, 1, #898 of 1033 🔗

I am not sure that being driven into a form of mental illness where you have an irrational fear of a virus and as a result submit to an unnecessary medical test can be described as voluntary.

90826 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 19, #899 of 1033 🔗

How many people here think that it is inevitable that masks will be imposed at all times ‘when in public’? Surely it’s coming. The Big One. The Gold Standard of visible oppression. The final nail in the economy’s coffin. It’s what they want.

I can picture Boris on the telly – in NHS branded mask – intoning…

“…Let us not throw away all the hard work we have put in so far. The magnificent British people have done brilliantly, but sadly our efforts have not been quite sufficient, as my good friend, the indefatigable boffin, Professor, er, Whitty! can attest. He tells me that we can fight this virus, but only if we all pull together, my friends.

And that is why, today, I am instructing you, the stalwart people of this precious isle, to wear a mask at all times when out in public. Keep those sniffly mouths and noses under cover! It’s a small price to pay, my friends, to defeat an enemy whose guile and cunning is exceptional – but is not, mes amis, invincible…”

90846 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Barney McGrew, 28, #900 of 1033 🔗

Boris can say what he fucking likes, I won’t wear one and don’t care about the consequences. I want fresh air and I intend to have it, any way I can.

90848 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to thedarkhorse, 19, #901 of 1033 🔗

I too am amazed at people still accepting the government’s authority. They can bring in any law they like and I will be largely unaffected.

90910 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #902 of 1033 🔗


90850 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Barney McGrew, 18, #903 of 1033 🔗

They will have tazer me to put a mask on me!

90894 ▶▶▶ Watt, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #904 of 1033 🔗

Careful there Winston. I would not put it past these trigger happy barstewards!!

90942 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Watt, #905 of 1033 🔗

I’ll take a couple down with me 😇

90853 ▶▶ anon, replying to Barney McGrew, 22, #906 of 1033 🔗

Boris can go fuck himself

90857 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #907 of 1033 🔗

If that was their wish could it then ever be possible for a politician to be seen not wearing a mask? Their own desire not to impose that on themselves will hopefully save us.

90866 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Ned of the Hills, #908 of 1033 🔗

They will be exempt

90868 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Ned of the Hills, 10, #909 of 1033 🔗

I hope to goodness that you’re right; it really doesn’t bear thinking about, having to wear a mask at all tiems.

90913 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #910 of 1033 🔗

Yes, politicians will be exempt, of course. Just like the police are now.

90964 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Ned of the Hills, #911 of 1033 🔗

I’d love to see the whole of parliament masked up.

90973 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Thinkaboutit, 4, #912 of 1033 🔗

I would prefer just to see them in prison although I think only capital punishment is suitable at this point.

90861 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #913 of 1033 🔗

This is certainly a lever on Boris’s control panel, the one covered in biscuit crumbs, milk and dribble, next the button that is covered in melted chocolate with a lego brick stuck on top of it that says DO NOT PRESS!. Obviously he has no idea what that button does but he is too scared to try it.

Madatory facemasks everywhere….I really really hope not. They cannot be THAT EVIL CAN THEY??

90867 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, 20, #914 of 1033 🔗

Yes its inevitable that is as plain as day. The saddest part is the vast majority will comply without fuss and plenty will be willing to enforce upon others. My opinion of the bulk of the British people could not be lower at this point.

90880 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #915 of 1033 🔗

Does not happen shops, yet.

90896 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to karenovirus, 1, #916 of 1033 🔗

What does not happen?

91868 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Saved To Death, #917 of 1033 🔗

MOPs trying to enforce masks on others

90871 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #918 of 1033 🔗

Daily Mail: Former Supreme Court Judge LORD SUMPTION says Britons know a rudderless ship when they see one.

90905 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #919 of 1033 🔗

Britons would be falling all over themselves to scuttle their perfectly seaworthy ship and all the lifeboats in the middle of the arctic ocean if Boris came on TV and told them it would help save lives and the NHS.

90872 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #920 of 1033 🔗

This is the almost inevitable outcome of the current ‘witch hunt based policy’ model in which our masters are helplessly entangled.

90875 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #921 of 1033 🔗

Unfortunately I see it happening soon,there is an increasing number of morons already doing it in my part of the country anyway and I always seem to be the only bare faced customer in every shop I go in.
They can stuff every new edict they come out with up their arses,I will simply ignore them just like every other pronouncement they have made since March.

90876 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #922 of 1033 🔗

My ‘go fuck yourself’ stare is now well practiced though rarely used.
My genuine, though not disabilitating, reasons for my exemption will remain my business until my day in Court.

90898 ▶▶▶ Watt, replying to karenovirus, #923 of 1033 🔗

Court? Where’s one of those to be found, these days?

90879 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #924 of 1033 🔗

The plethora of usless idiot experts would need to message out contrary advice based on non existent scientific evidence. Can that be done effectively? Surely a model will need to be cooked up.

90890 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #925 of 1033 🔗

It’s certainly a possibility, though I think it would be unpopular – at least much less accepted than the current laws.

90891 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #926 of 1033 🔗

Stopping at motorway services yesterday was an interesting study of human behaviour. A queue of people waiting to be admitted to the building, all dutifully donning their mask, very reminiscent of an oppressed people lining up for slaughter. I, unmasked walked in nobody said anything, majority of people know it is all bollocks but follow the rules. Parents asking their children ‘johnny, put your mask on for the lady’. My OH a bit belwidered as it was her 1st experience of it. She wore her snood loosely covering her face, as soon as she got inside and could see people eating without a mask and masked standing 10 foot away she took her snood down as it dawned on her the complete idiocy of it.

Masks were being taken out of pockets and dutifully adorned, taken off as soon as outside, back in the pocket for the next time.

There was a stall outside selling masks, people buying them. No question of whether they are safety tested, what they are made of, if the fabric or print (all colours and psychedelic patterns) is toxic.


Driving through se London (my old manor) wouldn’t know a virus is with us, no masks, adults playing football together, sitting in the park, not wearing masks on buses. Same as in the Kent village my parents live, pubs were busy, people socialising in the garden. Camp site next to my parents house full of families camping, kids playing, barbecues. Lovely to see.

Get rid of masks, stop the shit on the news and back to normal overnight.

Everybody I’ve spoken to in the last 24 hours have had enough.

90918 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #927 of 1033 🔗

I feel like the moment has passed – for now. Boris’ brief second wave panic seems to be (briefly) over. But the moment they cook up a second wave, I think it’s a possibility. I genuinely think that a lot more people will be pissed off about it if it does happen, however.

90949 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #928 of 1033 🔗

I have been asking people if they are wearing the mask because they think it protects themselves and others or because they are being told to. 90% have answered because they are told to. Moment of bemusement when they realise that is a pleasure to behold.

90893 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 11, #929 of 1033 🔗

I think we should look more on the bright side. Social change happens in sudden leaps, not small steps, and this Covid has given the impetus to a great leap forward.

It has revealed that work really can be voluntary. We are culturally accustomed to thinking that work is a kind of duty or necessity. Covid has shown that most of the population don’t need to work at all. Of those that do work, the awful stress of getting up early, commuting, having to look busy, juggling with child care, is a thing of the past. A simple daily video call replaces all of this.

Elected governments are clearly an inappropriate mechanisms for managing these global events. They are the cause of a lot of confusion and divisiveness. Public servants and academics are much better able to organise affairs to our benefit. Just look at how rapidly this virus has been eradicated in those countries without an elected government. Elections cause paralysis and dissent, when swift action is needed.

Our health has improved enormously. Deaths from all the normal causes, such as dementia, alzheimer, heart disease, all forms of cancer, are way below average. If we preserve lockdown it is conceivable they will disappear entirely.

Wars have almost entirely stopped. It is quite difficult to fight a war in a mask and, frankly, what’s the point?

Exams are a thing of the past. Nasty, distressing and awkward. It is clear now that teachers can award results and, who knows, in future it may not even be necessary to attend school.

All in all, this Covid is a blessing in disguise. Just stay at home and enjoy the movie.

90916 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to WhyNow, #930 of 1033 🔗

Is this meant to be humour?

90939 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Saved To Death, #931 of 1033 🔗


90958 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #932 of 1033 🔗

Sailing so close to the edge of plausibility in this insane season is what makes it so funny.

90897 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 9, #933 of 1033 🔗

The state broadcaster says that parents are mounting legal challenges against erratic exam awards that threaten their children’s futures.

The state broadcaster says that 500,000 people headed for France and are now heading back again (without mounting any legal challenge), all wearing face masks that they believe will protect them against a global pandemic which means that their children have no future.

Is it just me or can anyone else see a few fundamental inconsistencies here?

I know nothing about media organisations but isn’t there supposed to be something called an ‘editor’ who is supposed to check that bilge dressed up as nonsense on stilts is not broadcast using taxpayers money?

For the sake of the entire nation’s mental health, not to mention our image overseas (‘the madman of Europe’), Andrew Neil has to be the next bbc chairman

90902 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #934 of 1033 🔗

We are doomed if it is Nicki Morgan. An inside job if ever there was one.

90938 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, #935 of 1033 🔗

Brillo or Morgan? No sign of intelligent life there, then..

90937 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 7, #936 of 1033 🔗

Had some family discussion about the exam problem yesterday – and, yes, I pointed out that it isn’t a problem with exams that can be solved at all in this current insane situation. It’s a problem with the whole framework of an imaginary epidemic that isn’t, and the acquiescence to an outrageous power grab.

Children and students should never have been out of schools, and this problem isn’t going to go away until the absurdity is binned. No use moaning at a retarded juvenile education secretary.

90954 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 4, #937 of 1033 🔗

Yes, people are happy to support panic policies until they have to face personal consequences, then they start to moan.

Children basically missing half a year’s education at a crucial time results in less well educated children. So we’ll just apply similar grades so it looks as though they are just as well,educated and we can pretend nothing happened. No exams to establish how able or well educated they are requires basically arbitrary guesswork to try to apply the old merit-based systems to the new situation. The ones who lose out resent it. Who’d’a thunk it, eh?

90960 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Mark, 1, #938 of 1033 🔗

Funny thing is, students are very woke and all for “social justice”. Which means equality of outcome, not opportunity. But tell them at the end of the course that in the name of “justice” they all get the same marks, theyll cry ” That’s unfair”.

90988 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #939 of 1033 🔗

Don’t watch it, don’t pay for it.

90899 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 22, #940 of 1033 🔗

Guys, just broke my boycott of Waitrose (only supermarket within walking distance and needed an emergency ‘thank you’ pressy for a mate who is cooking me dinner tonight).

Anyway, stood there mask-free (lanyard firmly in back pocket, not visible). Was waved in, though nearly told off for using “dirty” basket! I went in, shoulders back, head held high proudly sporting my ‘Randle McMurphy’ t shirt! Wasn’t approached once. Perhaps because I gave off a ‘don’t mess with me look’ Or perhaps because my DIY haircut makes me look like Robert Smith of The Cure.

Boy, that felt goooood!

90909 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to kh1485, 9, #941 of 1033 🔗

Fuck ’em

90915 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to kh1485, 8, #942 of 1033 🔗

That’s the way to do it KH. Stand proud & tall!!

90917 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 5, #943 of 1033 🔗

Like it Kh !,I sometimes imagine a face to the posters on here,you are now forever Robert Smith !.

90944 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 5, #944 of 1033 🔗

I do look a bit of a state!

Paul, bearing in mind our hospitality tales of woe – got to tell you this. So, we’re in the middle of a shit-show at the moment aren’t we? Just had one punter ask if we do …. froth art on our cappuccinos! My new favourite regular (Giovanni from Brazil) who takes no prisoners and is as LS as I am, said (and forgive language here but I thought it was funny) “hey I can do some art, I can piss in it. I mean I ask you, effing froth art …

90962 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 2, #945 of 1033 🔗

If you could do a froth ‘face covering’ on the top, that would help to stop the virus, see?

90971 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #946 of 1033 🔗

I’ve got two in now who would probably fall for that argument!

91132 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, #947 of 1033 🔗

Charge extra ! Masks, ‘NHS’, WHO logo – prices graded according to ludicrousness of the request. 🙂

90928 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to kh1485, 5, #948 of 1033 🔗

Remember when you were taught to cope with a difficult situation/ interview by imagining that the other person was stark naked? Why do you think I go around supermarkets with a big grin on my face?

90955 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Margaret, 2, #949 of 1033 🔗

It also works if you go around saying to yourself “Hancock is a twit”. ( supply your own fruitier version for greater effect).

90961 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Thinkaboutit, #950 of 1033 🔗

Ah but he has exercised unreasonable power over more gullible humans. That could elicit a worried frown.

91051 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Thinkaboutit, 1, #951 of 1033 🔗

I always try to remember that supermarkets are literally the only place where mask zealots get to feel empowered. And I won’t even allow them to have that 😎

90983 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to kh1485, -9, #952 of 1033 🔗

Wow.You should be awarded the VC.What a hero.

90901 Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 17, #953 of 1033 🔗

Just read in the Sun online.PHE is to be wound up.I thought that’s good news.Then read it is to be merged with track and trace to become National Institute for health Protection.Very Orwellian.Hancock said it will help us deal with the “ Pandemic”.What pandemic there is not even an epidemic.These bastards will never willingly give up the power they taken over us.

90904 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #954 of 1033 🔗

What they don’t tell us is that exactly the same type of people will be doing exactly the same type of job, but with a special focus on preventing the last disaster.

90921 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to WhyNow, 1, #955 of 1033 🔗

Harding was mentioned.Was n’t she involved in another fiasco

90952 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #956 of 1033 🔗

talktalk hack, progress by falling (failing) forward EU style

90953 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #957 of 1033 🔗

TalkTalk – which sums it all up really.

90926 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #958 of 1033 🔗

You’re quite right. Any organisational change advocated proposed by this bunch of evil spivs and fireplace salesmen needs to be regarded with the utmost suspicion.

As you say – the name is entirely Orwellian – although I doubt that Hancock has the nous or education to understand that faux-pas.

90956 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #959 of 1033 🔗

A senior minister told the Telegraph: “We want to bring together the science and the scale in one new body so we can do all we can to stop a second coronavirus spike this autumn.
“The National Institute for Health Protection’s goal will be simple: to ensure that Britain is one of the best equipped countries in the world to fight the pandemic.”

91040 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #960 of 1033 🔗

It’s the PHE’s fault
It’s Leicester’s fault
It’s protesters’ fault
It’s Spain’s fault
It’s beach-goers’ fault
It’s Greater Manchester’s fault
It’s covidiots’ fault
It’s Piers Morgan’s fault
It’s Piers Corbyn’s fault


91055 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #961 of 1033 🔗

Big boys made us trash the economy and then ran away… honest.

90903 Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #962 of 1033 🔗

Help please! I don’t know what I’m doing wrong but I subscribed yesterday to “new replies to my comments” but instead got all the new replies i.e. hundreds!! Can anyone tell me what I might be doing wrong?

90912 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #963 of 1033 🔗

Deleted comment.

90948 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #964 of 1033 🔗

This isn’t a forum, so isn’t as sophisticated. Actually I didn’t realise that button existed – best not to press it then?

90906 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #965 of 1033 🔗

Sage out of touch and entirely misjudge reality of people. In the Groan today:

“Documents released by the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) warned that in areas with vulnerable or marginalised communities local interventions could make people feel stigmatised, damage trust in government and lead to social unrest.”


90911 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Basics, 1, #966 of 1033 🔗

Ghettoes. Now there’s an idea!

90923 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Basics, 6, #967 of 1033 🔗

From what I saw on a cycle trip in parts of rural Merseyside yesterday trust in government is totally gone. People have made their own mind up about risks which leaves the question of what is the government for?

90970 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to wendy, 3, #968 of 1033 🔗

As far as one can see their job is solely to make us plebs life horrible.

90965 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 1, #969 of 1033 🔗

Well, well. I must be a ‘marginalised community’ then. Fancy that.

90931 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 15, #970 of 1033 🔗

I feel great today folks. Loads of energy. Best I’ve felt in years. I checked what could be causing this and from what I’ve read I think I’ve got bloody covid.

90945 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Hubes, 2, #971 of 1033 🔗

TY has pointed out that covid symptoms are more like a hangover so you must have the new novel novel rona.

90969 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Hubes, 4, #972 of 1033 🔗

Symptoms include, but are not limited to: breathing, pulse, pants on, curtains open, effects of gravity etc…

90935 wendy, 6, #973 of 1033 🔗

Carl Heneghan has retweeted research on T Cell immunity, not shown up using the blood tests for antibodies, meaning community immunity is likely to be above the 6.5% suggested by ONS and the imperial college research published earlier this week.

Question of if you mount a T Cell response to encountering a virus whether you are infectious to others is under consideration.

All good news.

90951 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #974 of 1033 🔗

Increased pressure on Swedish epidemiologists. In an article in one of the biggest newspapers in Sweden 26 academics and scientist from Sweden warn the authorities that children can spread C-19 as shown in the US, Israel and South Korea.

“As children can transmit, and also be critical ill, and at the moment it is still unclear if even a mild infection might have consequence for their future health, we should already now at the school start take actions to reduce spread. We suggest that face masks should be carried at schools and that specially vulnerable children should have home education”

There are many important names signing this article, some obviously rivals but they are all influenced by Project Fear from the US. The pressure is increasing every day.


90974 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, 1, #975 of 1033 🔗

As UK Column pointed out last week, they’re coming for our kids.

91020 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Cheezilla, #976 of 1033 🔗

Yes. But these academics and scientists live in an ivory tower with no knowledge about the situation in schools. There a many kids with autistic problems, heard of hearing which would be devastated by mask wearing. And I assume 20% of Swedish pupils barely speak Swedish how are they going to learn the language from a teacher wearing a face nappy? But even with so many convincing PC arguments against face masks this would still be squashed by the Project Fear.They have the money and influencing media worldwide.

91123 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to swedenborg, #977 of 1033 🔗

Once you step out of line, they go after you.

Sweden and Belarus are the two clearest examples of this taking place.

90959 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 12, #978 of 1033 🔗

Have just read the Lord Sumption article someone has posted below.

”In February, at the outset of the current crisis, the government was warned in clear terms by its scientific advisors that aggressive isolation policies would merely ‘push all transmission to the period after they are lifted, giving a delay but no substantial reduction in either peak incidence or overall attack rate’

I must admit that I had forgotten this in all the noise.

What it says to me is that:

a. We have been kicking the can down the road from the very beginning.
b. The policy of zero Covid espoused by Wee Kranky and St Jacinda is simply unattainable
c. There are bound to be local outbreaks where people test positive-whatever a positive test tells us, that is.

Lowering the crown of the sombrero but forever extending its brim!

90963 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Margaret, 6, #979 of 1033 🔗

That’s all OK because it was never about protecting people from a virus.

90975 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Margaret, 4, #980 of 1033 🔗

To be fair to Ferguson et al, they never claimed anything else if memory serves

It was always about postponing

They envisaged continuous lockdowns and relaxations, to protect the NHS, until there was a vaccine

They never had any other exit strategy

What they got wrong was estimating too high an IFR and they continue to deny the existence of prior immunity/resistance despite evidence from Sweden and elsewhere

And of course the lockdown, which continues, was never defensible anyway, neither from a moral nor practical public health standpoint

91000 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Margaret, 4, #981 of 1033 🔗

I think that this is right. The ‘hiding under the stairs’ policy has just delayed the inevitable.Namely that this virus will do what is was going to do, and all we’ve effectively done is delay it’s progress and destroyed our economy etc in the process. There is no second spike,wave or whatever, this is just the ebb and flow of transmission caused by lockdown and artefact in data from increased testing.

90972 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #982 of 1033 🔗

Apparently Coronavirus could travel five metres through air, study finds

…. The scientists were able to isolate infectious particles of the virus at a distance of up to 4.8 metres from patients being treated at the University of Florida Health Shands Hospital.
This is significantly further than the advised two metre social distancing rule, which the researchers say provides a “false sense of security” and could lead to many more people being exposed.

…. Given the virus could still be isolated in the air samples, the scientists believe this means the risk of transmitting the virus indoors is far higher than previously thought.
The study concludes: “With the current surges of cases, to help stem the Covid-19 pandemic, clear guidance on control measures against SARS-CoV-2 aerosols are needed.”

Well that should stop them going back to school!

90977 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #983 of 1033 🔗

And Hazmat suits in and outside your home!

90986 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #984 of 1033 🔗

So, those of us that breathe are all dead then. And have been since about January. Bugger me, I missed that.

91030 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #985 of 1033 🔗

Absolutely this!!! I would guess these are bits of virus with no potential to infect anyone.

90999 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #986 of 1033 🔗

It’s behind a paywall so let me just say that it says that it is unclear if what is found would in fact infect anyone.

91033 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to arfurmo, 2, #987 of 1033 🔗

But it adds to the fear factor agenda. I know of someone who is ironing their newspaper after delivery to ensure no virus!!!!!! Another person who won’t touch anything another person has touched for fear of infection. FFS when will is stop!!!

91050 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendy, 2, #988 of 1033 🔗

It’s astonishing how it has worked, isn’t it Wendy? “I will die if I get it” is firmly fixed in their heads. And yet they are probably smokers, drink drivers or habitual speeders, whatever. That’s what we are up against. It will take a lot to shift their mindset.

91319 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, #989 of 1033 🔗

The government won’t bother about a detail like that. They’re obviously desperate to maintain the fear factor and this is another excuse.

91095 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #990 of 1033 🔗

It’s no good sitting on the toilet seat,
The crabs in here jump 3 feet
But if you think that’s bloody high
Go next door where the buggers fly!

School Toilet Door, c. 1973

90976 zacaway, #991 of 1033 🔗

The legal challenge to the lockdown and related measures is progressing but still looking for donations if you are willing & able:

Currently seems like the best chance we have to hold the government to account.

90980 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #992 of 1033 🔗

Excellent video here. Lengthy, but lots of links to other sources of information.

Denmark Says ‘No Benefit’ To Masks…

91069 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #993 of 1033 🔗

Yeah, well Denmark’s just mandated masks on public transport …

90982 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #994 of 1033 🔗

North West Note:

Posted the other day about Wethy’s insisting on T&T details as condition of entry, which had “Come from Head Office”. That was Middleton, in the Dominion of Burnham.

Visited the Todmorden one yesterday, no hassle at all, nobody on door, plenty in. So it does seem to be a Greater Manchester thing, no doubt in fear of Burnham’s hit squads, even though it goes against Gov (non statutory) advice. Having said that, Calderdale are also on the naughty step, so I would have expected similar behaviour, but maybe they don’t have a twat like Happy Andy.

Final proof will be next time I visit my local Wethy’s, which falls under Grossen Manchswitz.

91026 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #995 of 1033 🔗

Are the Manchester spoons asking for proof of ID? If not we can still lie. I don’t know anyone who is putting their real details on the T and T forms and these people include nurses and doctors!!! I am sure this must be so nation wide but it is not reported in the media!

91317 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendy, #996 of 1033 🔗

For those too thick to think of using false id, the media aren’t exactly going to enlighten them.

90990 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 11, #997 of 1033 🔗

Dear Boris,
You can not hide from reality for ever.

The Boris Johnson legacy will be, by far, the most damning of any British prime minister ever in history.

The ‘Boris Johnson’ name will forever be associated with; catastrophe, failure, cowardice and incompetence.

The direct opposite of how Winston Churchill is remembered.

91004 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Major Panic, 4, #998 of 1033 🔗

Sad but true – I think that is a just judgment. I say that as someone who was strongly supportive of Boris in the past.

91008 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to OKUK, 2, #999 of 1033 🔗

Well I’ve always voted Conservative, and have always wanted out of the EU – but I never wanted Boris

He puts himself above everything/one else including his country – he is a dangerous mistake

91012 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Major Panic, 7, #1000 of 1033 🔗

He’ll be remembered as a fucking useless waste of space.

90991 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1001 of 1033 🔗

Next stage coming in Tennessee in nice flowery language:


Mentions a few times this phrase “ conducting child wellbeing checks” .

Sounds ominously like door-to-door checks and taking the children if you don’t agree with what they say.

91006 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1002 of 1033 🔗

You’ve got to laugh at the utter bilge some people write:

The department’s strategic plan, Best for All, prioritizes the whole child as one of three priority areas.

The “whole child”. What, as opposed to just his foot or something?

Essentially, the entire article was industrial strength hogwash.

91028 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1003 of 1033 🔗

Yep and worded so that it means whatever they want it to mean and as it is from the Tennessee State Government it’s not an article but official policy.

Under this someone can turn up unannounced at your house to perform a “child wellbeing check”, claim the child’s wellbeing is not up to standard as they are hungry/fat/not doing schoolwork/whatever is trumped up and then off goes the child without the parents being able to do anything about it.

Knowing people from Tennessee I’ve worked with over the years I don’t think it will be long before one of the door knockers gets shot then they will come escorted by armed police and it escalates.

Hope I’m wrong though.

Scotland has a similar law as they have each child assigned to a government “named person” who is supposed to check the children under them welfare, education and so on and which uses the phrase “ detention in secure accommodation”.

And without a trial as well, just on the say so of the “named person” who has listed it as necessary under the child’s plan – a “targeted intervention” as it’s called.

There’s a trick to reading what things mean as opposed to what they say. This is one example, a great one to practice on is the UN Agenda 21 document or the “New Green Deal” – lots of rose-tinted phrases, flowery, unthreatening language and so on until you realise what it all means which is something completely different.

90997 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 2, #1004 of 1033 🔗

I’m always trying to find reasons to be optimistic. Here’s my latest attempt. It seems to me that the government will be hoist by its own petard (whatever a petard is). Well, we know it will be ultimately. That’s just a matter of time and how much damage has to occur before. But, in the short term, it seems it is going to have to put out two contradictory messages: Message 1: Schoolchildren are safe. There is no danger from the virus; Message 2: We are all in danger, so put your masks on and, if you are in certain towns, do not mix with others.
So, which is it? The line of “children are safe, adults are in danger” is hard to hold. I sense that the government is desperate to get the children back to school (they’ve launched a campaign today), so they may have to start a campaign telling us we are not in as much danger as we were.

91016 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Aremen, 2, #1005 of 1033 🔗

Lets hope so, it can’t come soon enough. They should start unwinding the fear immediately. FFS

91018 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Aremen, 4, #1006 of 1033 🔗

I really do hope so as the reasons are not trivial – the longer the heightened fear goes on the longer people will suffer. The recent articles in the press about care home residents being in an almost prison like situation. So called locked in for their own good. Sadly folks living in care homes are coming to the end of their lives so to deprive them of their family is so inhumane.

91001 Aremen, #1007 of 1033 🔗

Is there some kind of moderator here? I’ve been posting for weeks without trouble. Two or three days ago (the days blurr, as you all know, amidst this shit) I tried to add a graphic to my post. I had read that to do that you need to be logged in. I tried that. I assumed I would need to subscribe or have an account. When I tried that I was told I need a paasword. I set that up, but then was told that my username was already in use (yes, by me!). Failed to set up an account. Now my every post is “Awaiting for approval” for a good while. Any advice?

91005 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1008 of 1033 🔗

Our Government is being advised how to influence our behaviour by a leading member of The Communist Party of Britain.

Is this leading member of The Communist Party of Britain also using her expertise to influence how we are governed?

91015 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Major Panic, 4, #1009 of 1033 🔗

Which rather confirms the general political leanings of the “Conservative” Party hierarchy. They find the attitudes and beliefs of a communist pretty familiar and unobjectionable – generally pc and woke, collectivist, cynical about patriotism and religion, supportive of big government and centralised authority etc

91007 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1010 of 1033 🔗

In one comment thread I saw may name mentioned dbaout fixed penalty notices.

Here is the relevant quote from the gov.uk page on cautions, fixed penalty notices etc:

“Yes, here is the bit from there relevant page on gov.uk:

Penalty notices for disorder Penalty notices for disorder are given for offences like:

  • shoplifting
  • possessing cannabis
  • being drunk and disorderly in public

You can only get a penalty notice if you’re 18 or over.
You’ll be asked to sign the penalty notice ticket. You won’t get a criminal conviction if you pay the penalty.
You can ask for a trial if you disagree with the penalty notice. You’ll get a bigger fine if you don’t ask for a trial but don’t pay the fine.”

If offered a FPN do not accept a this is an admission of guilt and then not paying means increasing fines.

Refuse to accept it and take your chances in going to court if it ever gets that far.

A while ago I read somewhere a report that basically said the chances of a contested FPN getting to court is very low as it’s not worth the cost and time to deal with. Depends on the “political motivations” behind the case and if they want to make an example of you, get a test case done so it can become common law and precedent and so on.

Then in your defence you can start on asking for Government’s evidence to justify the law, quote the relevant bits of the ECHR and UN Human Right’s Charters about refusing medical treatment as masks are being used for “virus protection” which is medical etc.

Then offer as your defence the relevant studies and so on showing masks are not just a negligible safety/medical device but positively dangerous – exemption about “harm” then come into play as a bacterial lung infection is definitely harmful.

That’s what I would do if ever offered a FPN.

91011 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1011 of 1033 🔗

Everybody could just say they nearly drowned when they were younger and now anything covering their nose and mouth causes them severe distress. I honestly don’t see how anybody who’s looked at the legislation and didn’t wanna wear a mask could ever get a fine.

91029 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1012 of 1033 🔗

If offered a FPN do not accept a this is an admission of guilt and then not paying means increasing fines.

This is where I tend to question your otherwise fine points, but I’m unsure of the situation.

As I understand it, there is no admission unless you tick the “admit and pay fine box”. Taking the ticket in itself doesn’t constitute any admission, otherwise, though possibly you would then be pursuable for non-payment if you didn’t notify them of an intention to contest it, not sure about that. All it does is save the authorities from having to arrest you and charge you in the normal way, surely?

I’d want formal advice from a criminal lawyer on this, I think.

My intention anyway atm, is to take the notice and tick the box saying the alleged offence is contested and wait to see if they choose to test it in the magistrate’s court.

91074 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, #1013 of 1033 🔗

Yep, you’re right.

As long as you do NOT tick the box which says you admit you did it you’re refusing the FPN. Same thing whether you take it or don’t, you’ve still refused it.

By taking it even to send it back means you’ve given your details and all FPNs issued go to a central database and then sorted out there depending on whether you pay within the time limit or don’t pay on time an get a bigger fine and so on.

This is mentioned on the guidance from the Police College to their members a month or so ago.

https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/understanding-the-law/Documents/COVID-19-Face-coverings-080820.pdf – even gives the central e-mail address they go to for processing.

There are only a few times that you MUST show identification to a Police Officer in the UK. These are driving offences (you must be able to prove you are qualified to drive the vehicle you are driving), shotguns and firearms (you must be able to prove you have a relevant certificate to own the weapon you have in your possession), selling alcohol (you must be able to prove you have the relevant licence to sell alcohol). There a couple of others but all in a similar vein – you mast proved you have the relevant certificate/licence to do what you re doing if a licence/certificate is required by law.

You don’t have to for the majority of stops for whatever reason and you can refuse to show identification – they can then find an excuse to arrest you, DNA, fingerprint, rifle your pockets and so on.

The idea is to make it as hard as possible for them to get you into court so it’s better for them to give up than to try and chase you as that costs money.

There was a really good blog that stopped years ago written by a serving then retired policeman that said all the things to make it as hard and as awkward as possible for the CPS to justify a case against you.

Pity it’s not around any more as it had lots of useful stuff on it like for example you are spoken to or taken in along with someone else for fighting, his advice – get in first that they called you a homosexual – hate crime, trumps all – and you were defending yourself regardless of what is said by anyone else then say the police were too rough in handling you, complain about everything and so on.

As this ex-policeman said you make a big enough fuss then it’s not with the hassle of dealing with you for something minor so either they or the CPS give up on it.

91103 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, #1014 of 1033 🔗

his advice – get in first that they called you a homosexual – hate crime, trumps all

Yes, this is now routine, especially for any racial minority member who is involved in a dispute with someone white. I’ve seen it happen with my own eyes, and it’s also routine in court. The most egregious cases are when killers claim it as supposed mitigation when the victim is not around to defend himself, such as this egregious case:

The court heard Gill punched Mr Young after the victim allegedly made a racist remark.

91111 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #1015 of 1033 🔗

Good stuff, except that magistrates courts do not set precedents.

91119 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Awkward Git, #1016 of 1033 🔗

Then I hope you would bring it to the attention of this site and I have no doubt that we would all be happy to pitch in to get you a QC defence lawyer.

91010 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 5, #1017 of 1033 🔗

Brace yourselves. We are told that kind and “caring” people wear a mask, and that those who don’t (those who “follow the science”, if I dare use that abused phrase) are inconsiderate, selfish and uncaring. Last night, I heard a horror story which brought tears to the eyes of my close relative who told me this. He had been in the company of a 95 year old (yes, 95) blind woman, who is the full-time carer for her disabled elderly son. She had been verbally abused on several occasions for not wearing a mask when she goes to the shops. She told my relative that she wants to die, as life like this is not worth living. And these are supposedly “caring” people who are abusing this 95 year old blind carer and driving her to consider suicide.

91048 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Aremen, 1, #1018 of 1033 🔗

This is truly horrible. I’m so sorry to read this. Do these zealots not realise the damage they are doing? Just bullying, horrible behaviour.

91060 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Aremen, 3, #1019 of 1033 🔗

Those who choose to enforce the laws of fascist tyrants are evil not caring. They are the problem. Without such people the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Boris and co could not have caused anything like the harm that they have and will do. They deserve to be treated with contempt.

91104 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #1020 of 1033 🔗

But we mustn’t call them ‘bedwetters’. Or ‘sheeple’.

They are publicly abusing a 95 year old blind woman. But we mustn’t call them nasty names.

91274 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 1, #1021 of 1033 🔗

Let me just help you out, there, JohnB. “Yer a bunch of fucking cowardly, sick twats”. There you go, mate, I said that, not you.

91014 Margaret, 3, #1022 of 1033 🔗

This morning I watched the video of the German lawyers who are gathering evidence against the German government’s actions over Lockdown. They were discussing the PCR tests and a virologist was giving evidence.

I’m definitely not a scientist-always hated the subject at school-but throughout all of this, I have tried to get my head around what these tests show. Forgive me if this information has been posted before.

The virologist said that there are probably at least 300 varieties of this test being used by various laboratories, hence the different cut-off points for the number of cycles needed to show a positive result. (Not sure if this figure of 300 is world wide or just in Germany)

Any lab can easily create these tests, they are the bread and butter work for them and not just regarding this virus. So basically any post grad scientist will be familiar with them.

It struck me that governments worldwide have place so much faith in these tests that they have destroyed their own countries as a result.

On a side note, where is Angela Merkel hiding? Haven’t heard anything from her for ages. Has she retired?

91022 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #1023 of 1033 🔗

Retail Report

Mrs Doubting has just nipped into Waitrose, possibly 30% of customers not masked, this is the highest number of people without masks since 24th July implementation day. She also said most people now completely ignoring the in store one way system.

However the store are still cleaning baskets & trolleys before use, but no door discriminator.

91199 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1024 of 1033 🔗

Given people’s hand washing habits ( usually nonexistent) cleaning handles of trolleys and baskets is sensible even when we don’t have Covid around. Hand washing is the one recommendation that makes sense.

91301 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Thinkaboutit, #1025 of 1033 🔗

It was the first and was already proving effective before they introduced the draconian nonsense guaranteed to weaken our immune systems!

91024 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1026 of 1033 🔗


This is the policy which is in UK law right now and Matt Hancock is surely itching to reach for the second we get a handful more cases. It seems schools are the real danger on how widespread and ridiculous it could get. What they keep going on about, starter, unions, even half the conservatives, is an “effective track and trace system” for schools. But what they fail to say is that this is so disruptive you may as well stay in lockdown. A child coughs? All kids within several metres in the class told they must go home and get tested, and their families also must isolate for 14 days and get tested. And if you refuse, they have the power to “use reasonable force” if you decide you don’t wish to isolate in a “specified place” by a constable or other enforcement officer. Truly scary stuff. Following in St Jacinda’s footsteps I expect.


91027 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1027 of 1033 🔗

This is a good time to loose ALL your friends and start living an totally independent life.

91054 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #1028 of 1033 🔗

The kids will not be sent home they will be taken to the testing and detainment facility directly that is how they will get the parents there.

91257 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #1029 of 1033 🔗

The kids will be in permanent rolling 14-day isolation as far as I can see. Coughs and colds are more or less permanent in primary schools over the winter. No meaningful education can take place under those conditions. And haven’t they threatened to close a school completely if more than 2 kids test positive?

91053 Cheezilla, #1030 of 1033 🔗

Latest Update now available —–>>>>>

91071 NickR, #1031 of 1033 🔗

PHE may get wound up (they wind me up) but this is meaningless, everyone just TUPEES over to the new entity & it all continues with the same people.

91216 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #1032 of 1033 🔗


Dublin yesterday. The bedwetters are calling for an investigation 🙁 Personally, I believe that the participants should be congratulated for holding the restrictions in contempt.

91311 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1033 of 1033 🔗

Personally I shall not ever be bothering to visit the place. B’fhear liom a bheith a ól sa chuineas.


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