Last updated2020-08-20T16:54:42



94748 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 5, #1 of 1541 🔗

King for a day.

95153 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Achilles, #2 of 1541 🔗
94777 ▶▶ EssieSW, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #4 of 1541 🔗

Please no.

But going by the pattern of Government decisions during this fiasco, you may be spot on with your prediction 🙁

95088 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to EssieSW, 7, #5 of 1541 🔗

Where I drink (which shall remain anonymous) less and less staff are wearing masks (although they are required to) saying it’s all bulshit

95294 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, 2, #6 of 1541 🔗


94855 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #7 of 1541 🔗

Of course they will!

94899 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #8 of 1541 🔗

Please stop fear-mongering! MW

94998 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Lockdown Truth, 11, #9 of 1541 🔗

As someone who has to wear a face covering at work, luckily “only for about 5h30min, I really hope not.
I come home exhausted, with a numb lower face, have developed a sore throat and sore stomach as I breath in too much CO2. I am afraid for the long term effect on my health, and am considering quitting my job for my healths’ sake.

95024 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Silke David, 7, #10 of 1541 🔗

I wouldn’t presume to tell anyone what to do, but I know I could not tolerate it for one hour let alone 5+ hours per day. I’m so sad for all of you who are being forced to decide between your job and your health. It’s diabolical what they’re doing.

95165 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Silke David, 8, #11 of 1541 🔗

Wear it just under your nose.
Or, just cut holes in it for your mouth and nostrils.
Most people don’t notice, and if they do, they don’t really give shite.
It is not worth making yourself sick.
Time for creative passive aggression.

95914 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Silke David, #12 of 1541 🔗

Can you not use the same exemptions that the public can use to avoid wearing a mask in shops or on transport? Your employer has a duty of care to you.

You may want to consult a solicitor if your employer won’t honour their duty of care. I’m not trained in the law by any stretch of the imagination, but if your employer forces you to do something that harms you, and you feel forced to leave your job, it sounds like constructive dismissal.

95278 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #13 of 1541 🔗

I’m just after reading a post in Linkedin, some guy had stuck a post on with a tick box ‘masks in shops, agree/disagree. Its got 21k likes or positive thumbs up things and 2500+ comments. This ain’t going away any time soon, and the general consensus seemed to be in the agree camp. – and I quote one loonies comments , ‘If you disagree, you’re basically a prick’… I’m flabbergasted at people..!

95757 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to shorthand, 1, #14 of 1541 🔗

That’s social media for you. Army, be the bestest.

95810 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to shorthand, 3, #15 of 1541 🔗

LinkedIn is a 100% virtue signalling platform. Everyone wants to impress everyone else as money and reputation are at stake. So it’s groupthink all the way or just plain fear of letting people know how you feel.

94756 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #16 of 1541 🔗

Hi all

I’ve asked this before and I’m still unclear.

If I tested 1,000 people who didn’t have “Covid 19” with the current PCR test how many false positives would I get on average?

94760 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Lockdown Truth, #17 of 1541 🔗

5 ish would be 0.5% false positives

95085 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to steve_w, #18 of 1541 🔗

Really? SAGE mention PHE verification showed 95% specificity. EQAs showed median 2.3% false positive range (IQR 0.8–4%). But that was back when SAGE was attempting to do science properly (3rd June 2020).

Here’s their document: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/gos-impact-of-false-positives-and-negatives-3-june-2020

Their reasoning starts getting faulty and they engage in post hoc ergo propter hoc to argue a slightly lower rate (they basically argue if you flip a coin 10 times and 7 out of those are heads, then obviously the probabily of tails can never exceed 3/10).

94764 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #19 of 1541 🔗

50ish out of 1000 would be 5%. The real number of false positives must be much lower than that based on the ONS fortnightly infection survey (the one that’s about to be expanded up to 150,000 tests a fortnight, above).
The raw result from the last release on August 14th was 17 positive tests out of 30,522. If all of those were false positives that would only be 0.056%.
Therefore specificity better than 99.944%.

94876 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 10, #20 of 1541 🔗

Trouble is that the *actual* positives don’t indicate an infective virus. The whole process is flawed beyond belief.

95179 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #21 of 1541 🔗

If you believe that all of this is a whole lotta bull then I would call Matt H’s latest announcement stalling for time, i.e., vaccines still not ready.

95392 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to richard riewer, 6, #22 of 1541 🔗

It’s all smoke and mirrors.The only statistic that matters is deaths and they are non existent.
Where is the fight back?

95812 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #23 of 1541 🔗


94827 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #24 of 1541 🔗

I think the answer is nobody knows, because the PCR test has never been tested.

94883 ▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to PWL, 5, #25 of 1541 🔗

Yep – should only be used to narrow down the infectious agent if a subject has symptoms, does not indicate infection in the absence of symptoms and should always be calibrated/backed up by a gold standard test as it’s only a proxy test.

And the gold standard test for C-19 – the PCR test!

94870 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lockdown Truth, 16, #26 of 1541 🔗

So of course our lamestream media let this one pass without challenge. On re-opening schools our associate chief medical officer of health said the following when asked about routinely testing teachers:

“If you test somebody today, you only know if they are infected today,” she explains. “In fact, if you’re testing in a population that doesn’t have much COVID, you’ll get false positives almost half the time. That is, the person actually doesn’t have COVID, they have something else, they may have nothing. It will just complicate the picture.”

A high-ranking medical office of health actually quoted as saying testing will yield false positives almost half the time and nobody says boo. So let’s ramp up testing in a population that does’t have much Covid so we can keep the casedemic going, keep people scared, and maintain a “state of emergency” so that our politicians can continue taking advantage of their emergency powers. Makes perfect sense…if you’re a psychopath.

94943 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 9, #27 of 1541 🔗

That’s what I’m worried about.

Who in the world actually knows this stuff for real?

Do you have names e.g. Nobel laureates who aren’t in bed with WHO etc?

We need to establish exactly what is being tested here because the ramifications are ridiculous. We are going to have another “lockdown”for NO REASON at all!

We have had local ones for no reason.

We have people being quarantined for no reason.

Just say they test us all – and we have nothing – 10 % show positive falsely then they will probably lock up that 10%, their family and their recent contacts – probably half the country – under house arrest or if NZ are anything to go by it’ll be relocation to camps…

95020 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #28 of 1541 🔗

The Nobel laureates, doctors and scientists who know the truth are being censored. It’s widely known that the creator of the PCR test had said it ought not be used as a diagnostic tool. All it measures is fragments of RNA that are, generally, non-infectious and are most often the remnants of this or another coronavirus. The test is rubbish and everyone knows it, and yet all we hear is more testing, more testing! The bloody governor of Ohio tested positive with no symptoms and then tested negative, but he still calls for more testing. Do you think the average person gets a follow-up test when they test positive? I suspect they’re put under house arrest immediately. Do not pass go…

95112 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #29 of 1541 🔗

Who is the creator of the PCR test?

95960 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Lockdown Truth, #30 of 1541 🔗

was it kary mullis?

95172 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #31 of 1541 🔗


Love it!

95186 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jane, 1, #32 of 1541 🔗

Lamestream media was also a good one.

95923 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to richard riewer, #33 of 1541 🔗


94759 Drawde927, 2, #34 of 1541 🔗

I like today’s Heath Robinson reinterpretation! Here’s the original: https://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/news/illustration/heath-robinson-rare-illustrations/#6

94761 Colin, replying to Colin, 21, #35 of 1541 🔗

Further to yesterday’s article about cases of covid trickling across the border into Scotland. If we are being infected by Angleterrible people you would expect the regions bordering England to have the highest number of new cases. In fact, the two health boards comprising 200,000 people have 6 cases. For August! Grampian on the other hand has 400 this month so far, and Grampian is strikingly unadjacent to the English border, indeed we’re more distant than around 85% of Scotland’s population. So I’m afraid the Prof is speaking unmitigated bollox, this is a home grown “surge”

94925 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Colin, 3, #36 of 1541 🔗

The prof specialises in unmitigated bollox. Unfortunately, the MSM never call her out on it.

95061 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Colin, 1, #37 of 1541 🔗

Perhaps she thinks Longshanks’ Warwolf is catapulting them in!

95087 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #38 of 1541 🔗

Scots wha hae wi’ Wallace bled,
English bugs will strike ye dead.
Pay ye heed to Krankie’s order,
Keep the English from the border.
English accents tire our lugs,
And we prefer our Scottish bugs.

95191 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #39 of 1541 🔗

Possibly using a trebuchet when necessary.

94765 snippet, replying to snippet, 5, #40 of 1541 🔗

How about this as a motto for the Old Normal Club? “We’re only human.”

94780 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to snippet, 3, #41 of 1541 🔗

only human ?

Nah. 🙂

95058 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 4, #42 of 1541 🔗

We’re the only humans.

94766 Sarigan, 6, #43 of 1541 🔗

From 2015:


94767 EssieSW, replying to EssieSW, 17, #44 of 1541 🔗

I see Wancock has announced they are going to test “150,000” every fornight for a ONS survey, but I wonder if that target will actually be (and what the point of this survey actually is).

I had a letter through the post last week from the NHS inviting me to take part in a similar survery on behalf of Imperial College and Ipsos MORI which went straight through the shredder. I imagine a lot of people who recieved the invitation also ignored it, so will they find 150,000 willing volunteers to stick a swab up there nose and down their throat every 2 weeks?

94770 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to EssieSW, 11, #45 of 1541 🔗

No way is Wanksock going to shove anything up my nose!

95197 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to steve_w, #46 of 1541 🔗


95723 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to steve_w, #47 of 1541 🔗

I am reliably informed by YouTube, that the politically-correct phrase is “shitweasel”. It has a most pleasing ring to it.

94772 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to EssieSW, 19, #48 of 1541 🔗

Why on earth would anyone risk being quarantined for no reason at all?

Another winner from our boy.

94786 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Simon Dutton, 32, #49 of 1541 🔗

I genuinely think there are a whole lot of very dim people out there who would like to volunteer and feel their moment of ‘fame’ for a day without fully understanding what the outcome would be – and indeed quite like to be ‘quarantined’. I have been stunned at the general lack of curiousity around these ridiculous rules and chaotic actions. The young really have reason to kick against it – and those still in employment whose employers might have a sense of humour failure about the deliberate risk to take the test. But the older generations (and I’m heading that way) seem to welcome it. Utterly bizarre. Utterly bonkers.

94889 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Keen Cook, 8, #50 of 1541 🔗

It will be interesting to see what happens when the vaccine that is going to save us all from certain death pops up just before the festive season. I bet all the eager masked morons will be queuing up down the street with their sleeves rolled up begging to be pumped with poison….

94781 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to EssieSW, 12, #51 of 1541 🔗

I’d be inclined to ‘Return to Sender’ with some choice remarks added.

94841 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to EssieSW, 3, #52 of 1541 🔗

Perhaps a possible little cash incentive could be on the table? I did hear that other countries could/would be offering this. In fact did I hear that this WAS being considered in the UK? Plenty of takers then.

94875 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to HelenaHancart, 11, #53 of 1541 🔗

As the conspiracy realists keep telling us, government assistance in the form of a universal basic income (or some such) will be contingent on doing what the government tells you. Part of the bigger plan is to keep people dependent on the government as dependency gives them the ultimate control. Call me crazy, but does anyone here think that receiving benefits WON’T at some point mean submitting to testing and taking the vaccine?

94887 ▶▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #54 of 1541 🔗

Or travelling. Or attending school. Or entering any public premises.

I mean no one is forcing you to take the vaccine but…

94896 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to DespairSquid, 6, #55 of 1541 🔗

Exactly. I said that to my wife months ago. She said I sounded like a ‘Sun reader’. She likes her foreign holidays so she’s getting a tad worried now!

94920 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to T. Prince, 9, #56 of 1541 🔗

I’ve been saying it since the beginning. Travel was supposed to be a huge part of our lives upon my husband’s retirement and being empty nesters. I could cry thinking about not being able to travel again.

94942 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 15, #57 of 1541 🔗

likewise – i could cry just thinking of staying on this miserable grey island called UK with all the sanctimonious, nappy-wearing cretins watching the bbc mantra!! (sorry having a bad/grumpy day).
Thinking of going to greece in a couple of weeks to escape!

94992 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sue, #58 of 1541 🔗

Good luck with that Sue. What ever you do don’t go to Spain, they’re desperate for a 2nd wave!


95006 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to T. Prince, 12, #59 of 1541 🔗

So we were in Spain from mid-February to mid-March to get away from our Canadian winter. We’ve been to Spain so many times and I have a real affinity for the people and the country. We were having such an amazing time, but when Italy locked down the whole country we got nervous and decided to get out of Spain ASAP at huge cost. Spain locked down the day after we left. I can’t believe that at one point I thought it wouldn’t be too bad to be “stuck” in beautiful Spain a little bit longer. OMG, we’d still be there and it would have been torturous. Now that Spain is flirting with fascism again, I can’t imagine ever wanting to go back. The bloom is off the rose. Not sure where we’d even go next — nowhere so long as masking on planes is mandatory. Most of the world has lost its lustre for me now. I really hope that changes at some point, but the longer this nonsense persists the more pessimistic I become.

94964 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 13, #60 of 1541 🔗

Honestly, that’s the bit that upsets me the most.
It’s taken years to finally persuade MOH to go on a cruise. We’re both retired now, spent the first several years running around between our parents, all of whom became ill at the same time. We spent almost as much time in hospitals as we did when working in the NHS.
We lost three parents, and my mother is in a care home with advanced Alzheimer’s.
Last year we finally went on two cruises, and loved them. We booked up two more for this year, and both were cancelled, including a rebooked cruise under the cruise line reassurance programme. So we’ve been nowhere this year.
I don’t know how much time either of us have left, and I don’t want to spend the time we do have left, and are still well enough to travel, stuck at home, or forced to wear a muzzle if we venture outside, or coerced into having a vaccination which hasn’t been properly tested, with side effects unknown.
Plus: I don’t trust the basta*** who are pushing us into this. They are known and provable liars and not the philanthropists we’re told they are.

95008 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lms23, 6, #61 of 1541 🔗

They’re psychopaths! I feel for you, of course. I know of many older people (I’m solidly middle-aged) who are becoming more and more resentful of how much time is being taken away from them. Many do not want to live like this, and they surely don’t want to die like this. As I heard Dr. Sunetra Gupta say, “This life has a pulse but no soul.” Frankly, it’s barely got a pulse now.

94991 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #62 of 1541 🔗

We had a trip booked in April with our kids and their families to celebrate her 60th….gone. We’ve booked Turkey next month instead but now that looks as though it’s about to be flushed. If bodies were piling up, I wouldn’t sound so selfish but……

95022 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to T. Prince, 1, #63 of 1541 🔗

Good point no doubt.
I’m thinking I’ve made my last trip out of Canada if this vaxx to freedom thing becomes reality.

95864 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to DespairSquid, 2, #64 of 1541 🔗

Yep! Just announced this week, in Massachusetts, that children must get flu vaccine to return to school. Even in school systems doing remote learning, the children must have the vax. I’ll bet this will just increase the number of parents who decide to home-school, further endangering the very existence of public schools. Of course working parents have fewer options .So guess whose kids get to have the jab, and any side effects or subsequent consequences. Plus, poor families suffer most from the school madness.

95202 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #65 of 1541 🔗

A new variation on the Means Test?

94891 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to HelenaHancart, 3, #66 of 1541 🔗

A friend of mind gets £25 every couple of weeks to get his nose and mouth swabbed. The irony is, he doesn’t need the cash!

95118 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to T. Prince, #67 of 1541 🔗

Kidnap him!

94928 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HelenaHancart, 4, #68 of 1541 🔗

Bribery would be a clear sign of desperation.

94862 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to EssieSW, 10, #69 of 1541 🔗

The point? If people don’t test positive the spin will be we haven’t reached ‘herd immunity’, brace ourselves for 2nd wave. If they do test positive the spin will be a ‘surge’ in cases. No matter what, we’ll be living in this pantomime for a very long time.

95063 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to EssieSW, 2, #70 of 1541 🔗

Anyone getting one should film themselves sticking the swab into a banana and returning it.

95080 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #71 of 1541 🔗

As President of the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Bananas I must register a protest at this point.
Remember how much of your DNA. you have in common with bananas, and show some respect to your little yellow relatives.

95211 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 1, #72 of 1541 🔗

Mellow Yellow.

94769 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 13, #73 of 1541 🔗

from the World Health Organisation Website

Older people and younger people can be infected by the COVID-19 virus. Older people, and people with pre-existing medical conditions such as asthma, diabetes, and heart disease appear to be more vulnerable to becoming severely ill with the virus.”

Only ‘appear to be’? Proved beyond doubt back in March I would have thought

94819 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to steve_w, 15, #74 of 1541 🔗

They are doing that lying thing again. Trying to imply that normal people, albeit with medical conditions like asthma and diabetes, are affected. In reality 25% of fatalities had dementia or alzheimer’s. Think about that: 25%! Then include terminal cancer, advanced heart disease, incapacity through stroke and all the other things the terminally ill die of. And these are people in hospitals and care homes. What are they in a hospital or a care home for? A bit of a break from doing the washing up at home??

94934 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PWL, 5, #76 of 1541 🔗

I wondered right at the beginning what medications the younger badly affected people might have been taking.

94771 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 12, #77 of 1541 🔗

The Spanish interview Toby refers to above is well worth a watch. Made my day:


94789 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Sarigan, 3, #78 of 1541 🔗

Definitely, I really hope we see more of this sort of thing from doctors/medical personnel (maybe even in the UK).

He did undermine himself a bit at the end, though, by saying the media “didn’t talk about the pandemic” back in the spring – if the Spanish media is anything like the UK media, they surely were talking about little else!

94804 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sarigan, 10, #79 of 1541 🔗

Isn’t strange how the media seem to take it personally when it’s suggested it’s not as bad as they think. Challenge is fine but they actually get angry about it. How is that conducive to finding the truth?

94806 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Achilles, 5, #80 of 1541 🔗

Did that male journo actually say he saw dead bodies and sick people on the streets??!!!

94842 ▶▶ microdave, replying to Sarigan, 3, #81 of 1541 🔗

The Spanish interview Toby refers to above is well worth a watch. Made my day

Couldn’t agree more, and I’ve downloaded it in case it gets pulled. I found it a bit difficult to follow the subtitles at the same time as watching the good doctors face – this was as revealing as anything he said!

94882 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, 5, #82 of 1541 🔗

the doctor should have Toby’s award … Best Foreign sceptic.. You could see in his attitude that he knew he was talking to an imbecile and that it was all he could do to keep calm.

94999 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sarigan, 5, #83 of 1541 🔗

Apologies for posting again (above) but wasn’t it jaw dropping how the interviewer was just desperate to twist the truth!

95010 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to T. Prince, 3, #84 of 1541 🔗


95882 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Sarigan, 1, #85 of 1541 🔗

Brilliant! The statement re no discussion of the pandemic was obviously a confusing formulation, but the journos jumped on it to discredit everything else that Dr. Benito said. The presented themselves as knowing more than he. Instead of a follow-up question on misinterpretation of the data, they attacked him. The guy attacked him. Funny how the guy took over from the gal. Benito was obviously getting the better of the dialogue. Enter guy with guilt-tripping messageing and distraction over “pandemic reporting” issue to cancel out the refreshing effect of hearing The Truth!

94774 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #86 of 1541 🔗

I often find Chinese articles confusing and difficult to follow


A study on infectivity of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers
“During the quarantine, seven patients plus one family member appeared new respiratory symptoms, where fever was the most common one. The blood counts in most contacts were within a normal range. All CT images showed no sign of COVID-19 infection. No severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infections was detected in 455 contacts by nucleic acid test.

In summary, all the 455 contacts were excluded from SARS-CoV-2 infection and we conclude that the infectivity of some asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers might be weak.”

This article is supposed to say that an asymptomatic patient did not transmit. But there were 8 with symptoms which might not be extraordinary 8/455 in the winter season but there is no discussion if alternate URI agents were tested. But then they say that their blood counts were normal (supposedly lymphocytes) and CT lungs were normal thus they didn’t have severe acute respiratory syndromes coronavirus 2.
In the earlier part of the pandemic when they didn’t have PCR test yet, they used mass CT lung investigations and this was included in severe cases definition if they had abnormal CT lung scan. But why not say directly that all these symptomatic cases in contact with the asymptomatic case were PCR test neg?

You can never trust abstracts as I found out. I read the article giving me headache and some laughs

The article is appalling poorly written. You have no date when the PCR was pos until later on in the text. Although she was asymptomatic, she was treated with interferon and antivirals without going into which drugs and how long etc Then suddenly we see that she had PCR pos 11 th Feb .

“Due to only laboratory-confirmed positive, case A was diagnosed as an asymptomatic carrier, manifested by Guangzhou Center for Disease Control and Prevention (GCDC).

“Amounting to 455 contacts – 224 hospital staffs, 196 family members and 35 patients – who had been exposed to case A in EDOU or circulated area of it became the subjects of study. ” Quite a large family considering we are in the one child family land

“Meanwhile, we obtained imaging and laboratory data from hospital staffs and patients, which of family members were not noted ” I suppose it means no records of the big family

“For laboratory test, a complete blood count was focus of attention. ” No distractions

“Nasopharyngeal swab specimens had been collected at least one time in whole people. ” Fine at least we know it was not in half people.

“All samples were processed at clinical laboratory of hospital and sent to GCDC simultaneously. ” That was quick.

“Patients and family members were quarantined for medical observation and hospital staffs were not quarantined because of standard protection, in principle. ” Good to have principles, broken?

Then they go into patients who were in contact. The conclusion was that seven of them had respiratory symptoms including fever. But reading all patients in contacts many more had fevers but it was said to be of known non-viral causes. In have read the paragraph three times and cannot still figure how they came to seven cases.

“In total, 196 family members were enrolled. The situation on wearing masks was the same as that in patients. Local CDC took charge of following up 172 among them, who were ruled out SARS-CoV-2 infection after 14-days medical isolation, as far as we know. ” My eyes almost popped out. What does this mean?  Where they or where they not PCR screened? As far as we know, give you not much confidence. But 24 (rest of family contacts) are now called escorts where these authors seem to have control of results.

But only 2 PCR tested and were negative and after 5 days quarantine they all didn’t have fever and everybody assumed neg for disease.
Finally, one family member had symptoms and 4 neg PCRs and was thought to have had tonsillitis.

Then we have hospital staff. They were presumably tested PCR all neg. All had CT except
“A pregnant nurse failed to accept a CT scan”. I hope she didn’t end up in a rehabilitation camp

“All the 455 contacts were excluded from SARS-CoV-2 infection.

94776 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #87 of 1541 🔗

Part 2
This is a false conclusion as not all were PCR tested. They have not showed any proof of it. This, in the conclusion, should send this paper into the dustbin let alone be published in Respiratory Medicine.
I then realized that the same authors have published with the same populations, also a paper on the effectiveness of face masks. That article was appalling and almost laughable that it was accepted as a serious reference in the famous meta-analysis of face masks commissioned by WHO. Quite important as all the mask nonsense in based upon this meta-analysis reportedly.
This paper is useless and can’t be taken seriously and unfortunately, can’t be an evidence of non-transmission from an asymptomatic.

94885 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to swedenborg, 8, #88 of 1541 🔗

i always find that after i have read a chinese article i feel that i need to read another soon after 🙂

94778 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 1, #89 of 1541 🔗

A hidden/ignored contamination positive rate of 0.17% would lead to authorities declaring (on average) a minimum of 17 ‘cases’ per 100,000 tests. Curiously, this is exactly the kind of rate that is being declared in many regions, and is very close to the level at which travel quarantines kick in.

From todays post, I’m pretty sure this is incorrect.
We are (still ridiculously, dont get me wrong) kicking in travel quarantines at ~20 cases per 100,000 people in the population, NOT tests…

For every 100,000 tests we’re doing in the UK I think we’re currently ‘finding’ roughly 300-500 positives, so as many as 50% of the positives could be false if it is only 0.17% false positives rate… I would’ve thought, from what I read previously though, that 0.17% is being generous to the test…

Note: I think .17% of 100,000 is 170, not 17 – just a missed 0 typo I assume, or maybe my maths is off.

94797 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark II, 1, #90 of 1541 🔗

I think .17% of 100,000 is 170, not 17 – just a missed 0 typo I assume, or maybe my maths is off.

Your math is correct. 20 cases per 100,000 is 0.02%. Not sure of the generosity of 0.17% but all 20 cases per 100,000 could easily be false positives.

94895 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark II, #91 of 1541 🔗

Phew, glad you cleared that up – I was thinking I must be mathematically illiterate!

96084 ▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Mark II, #92 of 1541 🔗

Yes, the convincing evidence presented of a 0.17% false positive rate equates to 170/100,000 (not 17/100,000). I note the error is corrected in the main article. So as you say, on that basis, half of the ‘cases’ in typical reported prevalence rates in UK are erroneous. And that does not consider those remaining ‘true’ positives that were infected more than 7-10 days before being tested, as they will carry detectable virus fragments but not be infectious. So almost no-one is walking around today in an infectious state.

94782 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 13, #93 of 1541 🔗

The Office for National Statistics’ Infection Survey will test 150,000 people a fortnight in England by October, up from 28,000 now.

Told you! There it is! Their excuse for a new lockdown. As i said, they will lock us down from September-October until June.

94788 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 9, #94 of 1541 🔗

Until June which year? If the government get away with a second lockdown, I predict it will to all intents and purposes be permanent. Multiple generations will know no other way of living.

94835 ▶▶▶ PWL, replying to Richard O, 1, #95 of 1541 🔗

You’re just going to let it happen?

94839 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to PWL, 4, #96 of 1541 🔗

Over my dead body! And I mean that literally.

94850 ▶▶▶▶▶ PWL, replying to Richard O, #97 of 1541 🔗

OK, good stuff. But I don’t think it will come to that. UK Government is actually very weak. See comment below.

95215 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, #98 of 1541 🔗


94796 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #99 of 1541 🔗

They might legislate – or issue ministerial diktats. That’s not quite the same thing.

Everyone and their dog will ignore them.

94798 ▶▶ Will, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 11, #100 of 1541 🔗

No they won’t because the population won’t stand for it and without consent the policy will be unenforceable, especially if the MSM starts to become more sceptical which, slowly, appears to be happening.

94805 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 6, #101 of 1541 🔗

We are still locked down – most people are consenting

94856 ▶▶▶▶ PWL, replying to Julian, 2, #102 of 1541 🔗

UK Government has found a level that a lot of people are ok with. This can, and will change.

94811 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Will, 2, #103 of 1541 🔗

I just can’t see a popular rebellion in anything like the numbers required to overthrow this government. Regardless, we only have a couple of months before finding out the answer.

94840 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, 2, #104 of 1541 🔗

I don’t think a popular rebellion in the pitchforks/arson sense – more going to the pub, the seaside and countryside, and to see friends/family whenever people want to.

94852 ▶▶▶▶▶ PWL, replying to JohnB, 1, #105 of 1541 🔗

Absolutely. UK Government must become irrelevant. Deny money, votes and access.


95216 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, #106 of 1541 🔗

Don’t pay the fines.

96267 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, #107 of 1541 🔗

I’m a believer in avoiding the fines in the first place. 🙂 Will use the money saved to buy more weapons.

94843 ▶▶▶▶ PWL, replying to Richard O, 1, #108 of 1541 🔗

The government doesn’t need to be overthrown – not immediately any way. People can deny it the things it needs. Money, votes, and access – and openly disobey, of course

94853 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to PWL, 24, #109 of 1541 🔗

Absolutely, non-violent non-compliance is the simplest and most effective approach. T he battlefield in 21st century warfare is primarily digital, not physical. For my part I am trying to sow seeds of doubt in every single interaction I have with family, friends and colleagues. Many of them bitterly resent me for it, and constantly complain, but I will not stop.

95016 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Richard O, 4, #110 of 1541 🔗

Good man! That is a very effective form of resistance.

95219 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, #111 of 1541 🔗

Need some first class hackers.

95528 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ snippet, replying to Richard O, 2, #112 of 1541 🔗

Here, here. I’m doing the same and it is clear that everyone is fed up. As soon as schools go back and the rain starts lashing down, everything will go back to normal, as the guidance is ridiculously impractical and parents are at breaking point.

95737 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to snippet, #113 of 1541 🔗

Yes, I keep saying to the wife since we saw that stupid Quisling advert on TV showing the idiots queueing up with their trolleys in a supermarket car park 6 feet apart. I took one look and said “Just wait till there’s two inches of snow on the ground. Then we’ll see how many shops try to keep customers outside in the cold snow and rain.” It’s a case of letting them all in, or having them all go home.

Some people have been saying that the supermarkets will try to keep people in their cars with a sort of “remote queueing” system, but the way things are going, the “browsing” element of female shopping will be completely gone. How much money did that previously put through the tills? Now I just buy exactly what I need. No impulse purchases, you know, the ones that pay for the electric lights to be on…

94857 ▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to PWL, 1, #114 of 1541 🔗

People can deny it the things it needs. Money, votes , and access

Remember that (theoretically) we’ve got to wait nearly 4 years before that option exists. And if – God forbid – it takes this long, all that will happen is very few votes get cast and this shower (or the other lot) will STILL get in, with a tiny proportion of the country having actually approved. Until there’s a change in the law requiring “None Of The Above” to be put on all ballot papers, and those votes to be taken into account, I fear nothing will change…

94938 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to microdave, 3, #115 of 1541 🔗

We can’t wait for a pointless election. Time is running out.

94978 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to microdave, 4, #116 of 1541 🔗

There was an interesting discussion on the radio this morning, where it was suggested that even with an 80 seat majority, the government could still become destabilized, if enough MPs think they won’t get voted in again at the next election. They’ll turn on Boris if they think the public’s turned against them.
For that to happen, they have to be bombarded with messages, emails, etc, from the public saying that they have no confidence in Boris or his government.
That would be the only way to get them to change. And any such public campaign has to be sufficient to drown out the noise from Twitter.

95220 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lms23, 1, #117 of 1541 🔗

Need a 21st Century non-violent, social media blitzkrieg.

95025 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to microdave, 2, #118 of 1541 🔗

Write to your MP (a paper letter is said to be more effective). Say something along the lines of: if he/she doesn’t grow a backbone and start holding the government to account you will (a) never vote again or (b), probably better, vote next time for his/her nearest rival. So, incumbent Tory, Libdem runner up last time, vote Libdem. Etc. Frankly my big toe would make a better MP than the drooling idiot I’ve got, so it hardly matters who wins the seat.

All these creeps care about is getting back in, so this is quite a good way of exerting pressure.

Edit — just seen what Lms2 says below; excellent point!

95106 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #119 of 1541 🔗

I think they will follow public opinion. But public opinion has to change. We desperately need a massively well funded media campaign, that will need to last many months or maybe years. I think it will take £millions and professionals to make a difference, because that is what the other side have had – free or paid for publicity from national and global media, “health” organisations, Big tech, Behavioural insights etc.

We have truth on our side, but it needs a nudge. I’m happy to chuck in some of my savings and I am sure others are, but it needs some benefactors from business to underwrite it

Anyone with any ideas how to make this happen, I really think it’s the only way forward unless we want this campaign to last decades

94864 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, 2, #120 of 1541 🔗

the population won’t stand for it”

Have you been away in isolation for a long time? 🙂

94812 ▶▶ Julian, replying to IMoz, 7, #122 of 1541 🔗

So this is supposedly the most dangerous pandemic since Spanish Flu, on which trillions have been wasted and lives wrecked, and it’s too difficult to say what people are actually dying of?

94869 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Julian, 2, #123 of 1541 🔗

I don’t have the time to dig around in their guide yet, but I suspect their “suspected” COVID-19 might actually mean that the person wasn’t diagnosed with COVID-19 prior to the issue of the death certificate… Otherwise why bother differentiating it from U07.2?

95227 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #124 of 1541 🔗

Another stalling tactic.

94861 ▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 2, #125 of 1541 🔗

To be fair – I think you are asking too much of the ONS at this stage. They were landed with the mess made by the confusion of death registration. There is, in reality, no way of unpicking this mess except by going through each certification within a new framework, – and even then, I doubt the damage can be undone.

94867 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, #126 of 1541 🔗

You’re partially right, but as statisticians why on Earth did they actually record things this way in the first place?! It’s a very very very daft move, epidemiologially speaking…

A week or so ago, I asked them to split COVID-19 into part I and part II on the death certificate mentions, I have a feeling they’re going to come back with a similar response because why bother keeping proper account of “pandemic”?..

94872 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 1, #127 of 1541 🔗

I take your point – but I reckon they have a practical one, too.

All I’m really saying is that the ONS is as much a victim in all this, rather than an agent of deception.

94878 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, 2, #128 of 1541 🔗

I’m not saying they’re an agent of deception, I’m just saying their doing an inept job… But then again, so do seem many: I asked the local police what the counts were for criminal damage, and criminal damage by fire, and other offences against property in the whole of their area and they came back with “we haven’t a clue because we will need to look at each crime report”… Actually knowing their data seems to be an optional extra in the various state-run “institutions,” which might explain why the various actions are so abysmally idiotic.

95068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to IMoz, 2, #129 of 1541 🔗

Keep finding and highlight gaps/failures is a valuable tool in fighting back.

Currently I’m burying myself into the blackhole of PCR. The more I get in it, the more I ask what is it testing for…
matt hancock’s interview on BBC radio 4, this morning, left me alarmed. In his waffle he said that there will be, soon, at saliva test which will deliver results in 10 mins.

If PCR testing is highly dubious, a saliva test?

95077 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Che Strazio, 1, #130 of 1541 🔗

I void my rheum on it.

95100 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #131 of 1541 🔗

I imagine you’re right. My comment was more directed at governments, and various national and international bodies who chat a lot about what a grave situation we are in but do f all to gather meaningful data to understand it better because they haven’t the interest in doing so – they are too busy pushing their agendas.

What has the government or SAGE or any of those other “experts” told us about the virus since it started, that they have learned about it? Nothing that I’ve seen. They just waffle about “we have to be careful”.

95435 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Julian, #132 of 1541 🔗

I think they (both SAGE and the State) have learned plenty, just don’t have the balls to admit to a massive inept over-reaction!

94935 ▶▶▶▶ djc, replying to IMoz, 3, #133 of 1541 🔗

Because analysing the death certificate and coding the ‘underlying cause’ of death is a process that takes time. The full figures for a complete year are published in the summer of the following year.
2019 figures published 1 July 2020:

DatasetDeaths registered in England and Wales

Annual data on deaths registered by age, sex and selected underlying cause of death. Tables also provide both mortality rates and numbers of deaths over time.


. That will show a full breakdown of causes. These are not normally shown at all on the weekly releases, the COVID19 and Respiratory figures have only been added in since March.

There is are several interesting articles on these problems from the ONS
Measuring pre-existing health conditions in death certification – deaths involving COVID-19: March 2020
A method for deciding which pre-existing condition mentioned on death certificates is the main pre-existing condition.

Analysis of death registrations not involving coronavirus (COVID-19), England and Wales: 28 December 2019 to 1 May 2020https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/analysisofdeathregistrationsnotinvolvingcoronaviruscovid19englandandwales28december2019to1may2020/technicalannex

and the process of certifying cause of death:
Completing a medical certificate of cause of death (MCCD) Guidance notes for doctors covering issues doctors often ask about, and clarifying best practice under current legislation, including the Coronavirus Act 2020.

95018 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to djc, #134 of 1541 🔗

I think you’re misunderstanding what they’ve replied with: they’ve coded COVID-19 already, and they are not going to re-code it using proper ICD-10 codes—otherwise what you’re suggesting is they will be doing the same task task twice—if they’ve already processed that data and they don’t have the breakdown, they are not going to have that at the end of the year—the data is already processed.

I think you’re also mistaken in that you think that COVID-19 is only mentioned in part I (underlying cause of death), the way I’ve read the ONS statistics guidance is that they count both mentions in part I and part II (contributing factors).

95128 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to IMoz, #135 of 1541 🔗

They were clear about this from the beginning. It was done “for transparency”.

Actually, I thought they were also count third part mentions (unsure whether it’s IIb or 3) – “also known to be present”.

95440 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to matt, #136 of 1541 🔗

Yes, they were clear about it from the begining, I stressed it when the first lot of data came out. The problem is: there is a difference between the actual data and presenting the data for public/media consumption. It seems the ONS have taken a deliberate step to remove clarity and lump everything together rendering the data not worth the bits that are used to store it… and that’s a real problem.

94983 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, #137 of 1541 🔗

It could actually mean going through a patient’s medical notes to really determine cause of death
(not all of them, just a representative number, to get an idea). I’ve read too many anecdotes of GPs recording the death as being from or with CV19, where the relatives have said the person had no symptoms of CV19….

95050 ▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to IMoz, #138 of 1541 🔗

Thank you for asking the question on our behalf.

Over a fifth of these deaths (23.0%) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19) (50,335 deaths)……In the majority of cases (46,736 deaths, 92.8%)

I thought covid related deaths were ~41000.

I not a statistician: it took me days to figure out how the NHS were reporting their deaths and I eventually made sense of it when I started matching them to the reported ones in Health Service Journal.

At the beginning I was interested in the reports of the ACE2 receptor site allegedly found in SARS Cov2, so I got really sidetracked.
Hubby and I were keeping eye on areas (BRICKS) known to have higher risk of cardiovascular diseases.

For weeks I kept a tally from worldometer in particular for Italy and the UK (Istituto della sanita’ superiore -equivalent to PHE- was very easy to follow in the early days as they were keeping records of comorbidities prevalence in covid related deaths)

The ONS way of reporting was beyond my comprehension.

95125 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Che Strazio, 1, #139 of 1541 🔗

They count all mentions of COVID-19 on death certificates, so I suspect that includes both Part I and Part II mentions (don’t worry—I’ve already asked them for a breakdown of the two, doubt they kept those stats though)!

94784 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 85, #140 of 1541 🔗

Am sure a few of the postcards recently have contained this sort of thing:

The only negative is that you have to pop a mask on in the shops and if you go into a restaurant to pay the bill. But even we have decided that it’s a small price to pay to be treated like a human being again and to have our sanity back.

Feels like _they’re_ winning and successfully grinding people down into accepting the imposition of masks in order to achieve ‘sanity’ or being treated ‘normally’ – whereas I’d say it’s not a small price to pay, and you’re not being treated normally if you’re being forced to stick a mask over your face just to go pay for a meal or go into a shop, there’s nothing normal about it.

94792 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark II, 22, #141 of 1541 🔗


94794 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mark II, 50, #142 of 1541 🔗

I agree, and will continue to boycott everywhere until such time as every single one of the regulations are abolished. If that means forever, then so be it. I cannot be around anyone wearing a mask.

94826 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 25, #143 of 1541 🔗

Agreed, it’s nauseating.

94849 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Richard O, 35, #144 of 1541 🔗

It is taking a lot for me to keep my frustration under control when surrounded by the muzzled collective,I just cannot bear the sight of them,I don’t think I can find strong enough words anymore to describe the contempt I have for most of them.

94808 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mark II, 32, #145 of 1541 🔗

Absolutely. Mask-wearing can never be normalised if you’re a sceptic.

94844 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Achilles, 48, #146 of 1541 🔗

Agreed – compulsory mask wearing was the Rubicon that should never haven crossed. Mandatory masks take us into the world of compulsory medicine, re-education camps, thought crime and persecution of the non-compliant.

94809 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Mark II, 16, #147 of 1541 🔗

In Germany, you must have a medical certificate if you want to shop maskless.
The absurdity is, that many shops won’t let you in regardless, claiming their Hausrecht to prevent you from entering in that case.
Unfortunately, you cannot even sue them for discrimination under the disability act.

94997 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #148 of 1541 🔗

sounds awful!

94838 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Mark II, 21, #149 of 1541 🔗

Absolutely right Mark,those type of comments have struck me too,any price,however small,is too high to pay for our right to live life as we did before this madness,a small compromise soon becomes a bigger and bigger one,boiling frog syndrome again.

94868 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark II, 21, #150 of 1541 🔗

This is Lockdown Sceptics. No surrender.

95656 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #151 of 1541 🔗

This is Sparta!!

94884 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Mark II, 23, #152 of 1541 🔗

Couldn’t agree more…given an inch and they’ll take a mile. I was supposed to go out for dinner with a friend on a patio the other night but the weather was looking iffy. I’ve discovered that if there’s no indoor seating option they’ll pack up your uneaten food and send you on your way. She thought there was an indoor seating option, but I said no way am I going to wear a mask to walk to my table or to go to the bathroom. Restaurants are also putting time limits on diners. So no, I will not pay full price to have my dinner packed up in the rain, to walk into the restaurant with a mask, and to be told I have to leave after 1.5 hours. In the end, she came to my place and we ordered food in. Had a 4-hour catch-up instead of 1.5 hours and spent time on my patio with no restrictions.

94893 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mark II, 24, #153 of 1541 🔗

I have asked a few people at work about mask wearing, and whilst they do not agree with them , it is just easier to go along with it. I fear many have this attitude, it is just easier.

When I remind them that the freedoms of their children and in some cases grandchildren are being taken away they do not seem to understand.

95069 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #154 of 1541 🔗

Look at it this way. When the mass starvation starts…. we eat these people first.

95072 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to TyLean, 4, #155 of 1541 🔗

Zombie Vindaloo. Now that I would enjoy.

95076 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, #156 of 1541 🔗

There’d be no taste to them even vindalood.

95154 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, 1, #157 of 1541 🔗

Or what about Zombie au vin? Or Zombie Adobo? The latter is a popular dish from my native country (the adobo that is).

95233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #158 of 1541 🔗

Hancock au vin.

95248 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, #159 of 1541 🔗

I suppose Hancock au vin would taste better than Zombie au vin

95313 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #160 of 1541 🔗

Nubbly, as the ‘stute fish said,

95449 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Mendelsohn, replying to richard riewer, #161 of 1541 🔗

Enough to turn you vegetarian

95566 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to richard riewer, 2, #162 of 1541 🔗

That man should be cooked like a lobster, boiled alive.

95312 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #163 of 1541 🔗

Would be interested in the recipe, minus zombie.

95529 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #164 of 1541 🔗
95231 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TyLean, #165 of 1541 🔗

Will they taste good?

95661 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to richard riewer, #166 of 1541 🔗

Google “Long Pig”.

Fortunately, since DDT was made illegal, we are now fit for human consumption – except the brain, which can give you Kuru. Must keep ourselves healthy.

95298 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #167 of 1541 🔗

I’ve managed to get at my sister by pointing out the mental torture all this garbage is inflicted on her two young daughters. Since then I think she’s certainly making an effort to question things a lot more.

94917 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark II, 16, #168 of 1541 🔗

Yes, that’s exactly what I thought. Just ‘pop a mask on, nothing to see here, it’s just a bit of cloth.’ No it is not normal and must be resisted! Just because you’re on a nice foreign holiday does not entitle you to try to get us to go along with other countries’ oppression and tyranny just because the weather is nicer, and it’s in a different language!

Or are we ‘Lockdown-only-slightly-sceptics’ now? MW

95663 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #169 of 1541 🔗

Just “pop it on” as if pressing your face into a filthy face-rag is a mild inconvenience, instead of a major health hazard. Fortunately, I saw a minister taking off his muzzle and putting it into his pocket for future use; here’s hoping the illness is a severe one.

94954 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mark II, 4, #170 of 1541 🔗

Yes, I thought that when I read it.

94980 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark II, 10, #171 of 1541 🔗

It’s not only not normal, it’s dangerous because there is no good reason for it. Agreeing to do things that make no sense in the knowledge that they make no sense is extremely corrosive to our mental health and to the health of our society in general. It makes other stupid and irrational behaviour acceptable and more likely.

94987 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mark II, 6, #172 of 1541 🔗


Someone asked a few weeks ago whether people would be so compliant if they were told by the government to go around with dog poo on their head because “Covid!”

95308 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lms23, 6, #173 of 1541 🔗

They would do it.
And require us to do it.

95086 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark II, 10, #174 of 1541 🔗

Agree, I’m back from our long road trip.

Said to my OH how was your first trip into the wild, strange times.

‘yep, I only wore my snood for 2 mimutes, I’d hate to wear a mask for any longer’ OH used the snood at motorway services and waited outside whilst I went into Morrisons to get pizza and beer. I was maskless.

I’m going to say masks are fucking disgusting, look disgusting and are dehumanising.

If anybody says they enjoy wearing one they are fucking liar. Driving through Edinburgh tonight all shoppers and bus travellers all masked. Depressing.

95339 ▶▶▶ alison, replying to stefarm, 3, #175 of 1541 🔗

Yup, Edinburgh is pretty bad with the masks. On the plus side, I never wear one on the bus or train, in the supermarket or in high street shops, and have had no hassle from anyone at all. There are a few others who don’t. And, entertainingly, on the late trains all the people who have had a few drinks start taking them off. Maybe we need to aim for getting people drunk on the way into the supermarket.

95157 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark II, 3, #176 of 1541 🔗

Well said. That’s why I’m still boycotting – I’ve realised I don’t really need non-essential shops, as for bookshops, well, Amazon does offer free previews as well for browsing so its not been a problem.

The museums have been a bit of a challenge but I was born and spent the first 27-28 years of my life in a country that is sadly a cultural desert but I managed. I can do so again.

94787 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 27, #177 of 1541 🔗

Although not the man in charge of the Swedish response it’s good to remind ourselves of the thinking behind their approach. No wild claims, just a simple message (my emphasis below):

The invisible pandemic – Johan Giesecke


It has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect.

Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK’s experience with that of other European countries.

Measures to flatten the curve might have an effect, but a lockdown only pushes the severe cases into the future —it will not prevent them. Admittedly, countries have managed to slow down spread so as not to overburden health-care systems, and, yes, effective drugs that save lives might soon be developed, but this pandemic is swift, and those drugs have to be developed, tested, and marketed quickly. Much hope is put in vaccines, but they will take time, and with the unclear protective immunological response to infection, it is not certain that vaccines will be very effective.

In summary, COVID-19 is a disease that is highly infectious and spreads rapidly through society. It is often quite symptomless and might pass unnoticed, but it also causes severe disease, and even death, in a proportion of the population, and our most important task is not to stop spread, which is all but futile, but to concentrate on giving the unfortunate victims optimal care .

94947 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #178 of 1541 🔗

In a nutshell!

94790 Clarence Beeks, replying to Clarence Beeks, 42, #179 of 1541 🔗

I pointed out in April the lack of a government strategy to get the country fully operational again post-lockdown, thinking at the time that it would be when, rather than if, a strategy was introduced.

Four months later and there is no coherent strategy in place – the government is still putting in arbitrary obstacles preventing the return to normality for people and businesses.

However, it’s become too easy for the government to introduce random knee-jerk measures without any kind of responsibility for the outcomes. These seem to be based on a “something-must-be-done” policy.

So, my suggestion is this:

From now on the default position has to be an immediate return to the “old normal” for people and businesses. If the government decides that it wants to bring in a particular restriction, be that geographic, or a business sector, or behavioural, or age-based, then a named government minister has to set out in writing specific reasoning for that measure.

This will state what facts are being used to justify why such a restriction is being put in place, for how long, (suggest a maximum of two weeks) and what the measurable benefits are. That document has to be signed by that minister who takes personal responsibility for the action.

As that initial period comes to an end that minister has to report on the success or otherwise of his action and justify the continuation, if any, of that restriction with data and analysis to support it.

This should also apply to every measure currently in place, such as social distancing, travel quarantine and mask wearing.

Without this change in direction we are subject to continual, arbitrary controls and restrictions, with no quantifiable measures of success, or government accountability.

94813 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Clarence Beeks, 7, #180 of 1541 🔗

That’s what should have happened from the start

The idea that locking down was the safe or standard response is the opposite of truth – it was the risky approach as it had never been done before

94825 ▶▶ alw, replying to Clarence Beeks, 8, #181 of 1541 🔗

Hopefully Simon Dolan’s Judicial Review appeal will put an end to this nonsense.

94851 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to alw, 1, #182 of 1541 🔗

The problem is that a judicial review can only judge whether an action is unlawful. Whether it is functionally reasonable is another issue.

95234 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to alw, 2, #183 of 1541 🔗

Don’t count on it. The judiciary is becoming more and more unreliable at upholding human rights.

94831 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Clarence Beeks, 4, #184 of 1541 🔗

It is a coherent strategy if the objectives are a frightened confused populace and a global reset.

95235 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, 1, #185 of 1541 🔗

They aren’t going to reset me. Too late.

95681 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to richard riewer, #186 of 1541 🔗

Absolutely; “never take away too much from someone, otherwise you will leave them with nothing to lose.”

94871 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Clarence Beeks, 6, #187 of 1541 🔗

Don’t be ridiculous Clarence! That’s far too sensible approach for this government to take. What on earth are you thinking??? !!! Ministers having to justify their actions and take personal responsibility? Never!

Wish you were Prime Minister!

95009 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Clarence Beeks, 2, #188 of 1541 🔗

Are we completely sure the government is in any hurry to return to normality?

I realise there may be a big overlap between Brexit supporters and sceptics and so may be sticking my neck out a bit here, but it could be that economic damage from this epidemic conveniently covers up any possible economic side effect of Brexit?

In the US it is being suggested quite openly that Democrat governors and mayors are unnecessarily extending lockdowns because a bad economic situation reduces Trump’s chances of reelection.

It is certainly not beyond politicians to put their personal interests before that of the population they are supposed to serve.

For Boris Johnson the calculation is simple. Politicians around the world are finding that there is little price to pay for being overcautious with the pretext of saving lives. But the responsibility for economic fall out from Brexit is entirely on him. If I was a self-serving politician, I know what I would do.

95097 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to stewart, 4, #189 of 1541 🔗

The government is not only not in a hurry to return to normality, they have no interest in doing so. Why on earth would they? They have almost limitless power, attention, lack of scrutiny and it’s all in the name of saving lives. What’s not to like, if you’re a power-hungry politician.

They will care about winning the next election, when it comes, and having enough money to buy the votes they need, but to think they have any interest in moving on or getting us back to normal flies in the face of all the evidence from their actions.

94791 Anonymoose, replying to Anonymoose, 2, #190 of 1541 🔗

I have been offered to join the ONS survey, they’re offering £50 for the first test, and £25 for any subsequent tests.

94799 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Anonymoose, 7, #191 of 1541 🔗

Great. Another way to f*ck the poor. Those with money won’t bother; those in dire need will be happy of the extra cash.

94829 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to MDH, 12, #192 of 1541 🔗

Poor but not daft. I foresee many pets/fruits/vegetables being phoned up and told to isolate.

95160 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 1, #193 of 1541 🔗

Won’t be surprised if someone takes the piss and tests a book say the Bible and it turns up positive as well.

94818 ▶▶ alw, replying to Anonymoose, 6, #194 of 1541 🔗

Why would you want to take the test?

Too many false positives.

Paying you to take a test. It’s you the taxpayer who is paying with your hard earned cash. No such thing as a free lunch.

95238 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to alw, #195 of 1541 🔗

Don’t do anything they want. Ignore them. Make them cry and throw tantrums.

94823 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Anonymoose, 4, #196 of 1541 🔗

Take the money and test any pet, fruit or vegetables you may have nearby at the time.

94833 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 24, #197 of 1541 🔗

My cactus has Covid,
My cactus is sick.
And if you’ll believe that
By God, you are thick.
The silliest sight
That I’ve ever een
Is my poor little cactus
Now in quarantine.

94847 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 2, #198 of 1541 🔗

Possibly your best yet…

94866 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to annie, 7, #199 of 1541 🔗

A cactus is for life not just covid

95239 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #200 of 1541 🔗

During the 2008 U.S. election campaign there was a woman who called herself suzycolorado. She was an expert at creating limericks about Sarah Palin. They were hilarious. You remind me of her. Keep up the good work!

94950 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Anonymoose, 1, #201 of 1541 🔗

Is that being paid for with magic money?

95055 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Anonymoose, 1, #202 of 1541 🔗

If it was the ONS I would cooperate and I don’t think they will quarantine you.

If it’s the government or Hancock’s new Waffen SS or whatever his new PPE replacement is called they’re getting swabs of cheese from the fridge.

95240 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to guy153, #203 of 1541 🔗

Give them some Stilton.

94793 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 21, #204 of 1541 🔗

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it probably is a ………

If you do not have a temperature, or a cough, or an aching body then you don’t have covid

Anyone ever heard of asymptomatic flu? No? Why not do you think?

(a) Symptoms….positive test… symptoms ….hospital?…..treatment?…..recovery or death?
(b) No symptoms…..positive test,,,, no symptoms

(a) make sense
(b) makes no sense at all

Occam would require that it’s proved that the tests are accurate before it’s possible to move on to any other theory

95054 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Cecil B, 1, #205 of 1541 🔗

You can have an asymptomatic infection with an influenza virus.

It’s not flu. It’s an asymptomatic infection. The same with SARS-COV2. You can be infected without having Covid.

95129 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to guy153, 5, #206 of 1541 🔗

This is true. I researched it when I heard how many people allegedly got flu each year and wondered why, in my late 40s, I’d managed to avoid it given its prevalence every year. And everyone always says “oh you KNOW when it’s flu. If you can pick up £20 it’s not flu” and I have never been THAT ill.

Reality is I have probably had it but asymptomatically. Or with very mild symptoms. Which was self-diagnosed as a cold.

So I propose we treat COVID like flu. If you’re well enough to pick up £20, then it’s just a cold. Otherwise it’s flu or COVID and you can PCR that if you are desperate. But otherwise just stay home with a lemsip.

95291 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sophie123, #207 of 1541 🔗

Yes I learnt this from you the other day about the ~75% asymptomatic for flu. As you say it explains a lot.

95302 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to guy153, #208 of 1541 🔗

i can’t find the Lancet link now, but this NHS link describes the study

95556 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sophie123, #209 of 1541 🔗

That’s the one yes.


I’ve saved the pdf now before I lose it again 🙂

95241 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cecil B, #210 of 1541 🔗

Occam was a clever lad. The shmucks in the Johnson government are not.

94795 Stephen, replying to Stephen, 56, #211 of 1541 🔗

This is getting surreal.

Old Normal: I feel ill so I go to see a Doctor. The doctor diagnoses me and recommends a cure. Or the doctor needs a test to help them diagnose me and then recommends a cure. If I might be infectious then I am also recommended not to go out so as not to spread the virus. Sensible.

New Normal: I feel fine. But I must wear a mask just in case I have the illness, even if a mask has zero demonstrated impact. Matt Hancock also tests me anyway just in case I have the virus too. The test then finds a fragment of a virus or potentially falsely diagnoses it. There is no “cure” needed because I am not ill but I must quarantine anyway. Based on multiple test results of this type and as a “precaution” the government then decides to close down whole cities. This is based on the possibility that all these well people with positive test results may pass on whatever has been found to other people, who might then become unwell.

At the same time, no one has been able to show with any sensible evidence that any of these government measures actually do anything to reduce the prevalence of the disease, even if it is still in circulation. We also know that these poorly thought through policies are all creating unwanted consequences that will cause death too.

This is sheer genius. Like something out of Kafka. It will never end until a little child notices that The Emperor is wearing no clothes. We have a test, fear and case pandemic.

94821 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stephen, 4, #212 of 1541 🔗

Not “ will cause death too” they are causing death.

95252 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, 3, #213 of 1541 🔗

Death merchants.

94951 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stephen, 9, #214 of 1541 🔗

Meanwhile, if you feel ill you’re probably not going to be able to see a doctor …..

94996 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Stephen, 5, #215 of 1541 🔗

I have never experienced an Old Normal like that in the UK…usually it’s take paracetamol, stay hydrated, try honey & lemon etc. GPs basically play the odds and take a punt that you’re almost certainly not seriously ill. If it turns out you are and end up at A&E then you might get tested.
The only time I have ever been given any recommendations to stay isolated not to spread anything before now was norovirus.

94800 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 8, #216 of 1541 🔗

This graph, produced by the Govt , shows the overstated deaths they have now accounted for. The red bits are the overstated ones. This is just another, unbelievable piece of manipulation they have been caught out on. https://t.co/yUIPWnt1l8


95244 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to smileymiley, #217 of 1541 🔗

Send it back to them and tell them to try harder next time.

94802 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 29, #218 of 1541 🔗

It is so obvious what is happening. The health professionals don’t understand the virus and can’t account for the data. They have now become engaged in a quest to understand the virus, in a real world live experiment that coopts the entire population into the test. They have completely lost sight of the original objective.

We now have a £300 billion bill for something that, on the face it, happens normally with flu every few years.

If this were a business venture, the whole operation would have been shut down. As it is, they will probably all get knighthoods for services to public health.

There’s a good chance that £300 billion would have achieved a great deal more in terms of public health if spent on diabetes, obesity, cancer, education etc. This is pursuing a medical chimera for the sake of it, now.

94959 ▶▶ Will, replying to WhyNow, 13, #219 of 1541 🔗

I don’t think the medical chimera is being pursued for the sake of it, it is being pursued as part of a deeply cynical exercise to cover up the utter folly of the lockdown policy and to claim credit for “victory” over the second wave which doesn’t exist.

95053 ▶▶ guy153, replying to WhyNow, 2, #220 of 1541 🔗

Rather more than a “good chance”, a dead cert.

95078 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to WhyNow, 3, #221 of 1541 🔗

Most doctors don’t understand how shit comes out of their own assholes. Hence why they perpetually have their heads rammed up there trying to figure it out.

Seriously though, there is a tiny handful of absolutely brilliant physicians in the world. The rest are excellent students who otherwise couldn’t figure out how to screw in a light bulb if a textbook didn’t break it down into 12 steps.

94814 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 4, #222 of 1541 🔗

A question about PCR tests.

I’ve read that the tests-and they are legion, cannot differentiate between a fragment of dead virus, the result of someone being ill several weeks ago, and a living virus capable of reproducing and causing health problems.

If a positive test picks up a dead fragment of Coronavirus and that person is tested again in a couple of weeks, won’t there still be traces of the dead virus inside them and won’t they still test positive?

I’m trying to get my head around this.

94822 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Margaret, 6, #223 of 1541 🔗

The designer of the PCR test never thought it should be used for daignosis due to its limitations, but it still gets used anyway.
According to OffGuardian, fact checkers dispute this because he was talking about a test for HIV, even though it works in principle the same way for any virus.

94832 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Margaret, 7, #224 of 1541 🔗

The trouble is Handcock and Co are basing policy on a pretty rubbish test. Kary Mullis who invented the PCR reaction said it was never intended or suitable as a diagnostic test. An unknown false positive and false negative rate, picking up viral fragments as well as active viruses, no gold standard test to calibrate it with are just a few of the problems!

94859 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to DocRC, 2, #225 of 1541 🔗

Does that mean it’s possible to keep on and on testing positive because they will keep on finding dead fragments of virus?

94957 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Margaret, 4, #226 of 1541 🔗

I think swedenborg linked to a study that found a maximum 83 days between symptoms and a positive test – because fragments were hanging around in the person’s nose.

Here it is: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.25.20162107v2

Maximum duration of SARS-CoV-2 RNA shedding reported in URT , LRT, stool and serum was 83 , 59, 35 and 60 days , respectively.

95255 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Barney McGrew, #227 of 1541 🔗


95037 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, 3, #228 of 1541 🔗

Possible but unlikely. Very few tests are perfect. It’s all about probabilities.

The PCR test is about 70% sensitive and 99% specific. This makes it very useful in some circumstances but you have to be careful to interpret the results properly in the light of prior probabilities.

Fussing over asymptomatic positives when prevalence is very low at the end of an epidemic is meaningless and pointless. You get too many false positives.

The test is also no good for keeping covid out of a country that didn’t have it (like the NZ of Ardern’s imagination) because of the. 30% false negative rate.

Using the test as part of diagnosing covid in someone who had symptoms however could be very useful.

94837 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 3, #229 of 1541 🔗

Essentially, a PCR test makes assumptions about the relationship of an RNA fragment and a live, infective virus.

The flaw is in not recognising that this is an assumption – that may not be correct in many cases.

94902 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Margaret, 5, #230 of 1541 🔗

Good point Margaret and something I’ve thought about too. It’s clear that there is something to be found otherwise countries showing low or no positive cases would be expected to return higher and non-zero numbers.

We should remain objective and not simply dismiss it as the test being useless.

The way I see it is that somebody testing positive today (usually younger and healthier) is not the same as somebody testing positive in March (older and ill enough to be hospitalised). However the government are acting as if they are the same.

94936 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #231 of 1541 🔗

That only applies if those countries that are returning low/ zero numbers are actually testing people in any sort of number.

If a country is sensible, such as Denmark or Finland, and requires the most rigorous proof of a covid death so they respectively and miraculously, end up with comparable or greater excess deaths than Sweden, which has much looser death certification protocols, whilst having fewer covid deaths, do you really think they would be so naive as to test the bollocks out of a perfectly healthy population? Sorry but I cannot see it. I think the Italians are being fairly cute as well.

Handcock is ramping up testing to try and “prove” the existence of a virus that has disappeared so he and his pig headed boss can claim credit for “beating” said virus.

95042 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #232 of 1541 🔗

It is extremely unlikely that there are no real infections in England.

My estimate is that out of the 600 or so positives they find per day around 40 are true positives (but the total number of people actually positive if you tested everyone is probably around 30,000, with 3000 new infections per day and about 3000 recoveries.)

So there are many more infections than they’re finding, but most of what they’re finding aren’t real infections.

It’s like looking for quite a lot of needles spread through a very large haystack. What you find is mostly straw but there are still a lot of needles in there.

So the argument is a little nuanced. They get all excited about the 600 which is both an overestimate (because only 40 are real) and an underestimate because the real number is more like 3000 (because they would need to test everybody to find them all).

95142 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 1, #233 of 1541 🔗

And if you tested everyone, you’d find 45,000

95282 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #234 of 1541 🔗

I reckon they’d find about 300k if it was the government “Pillar 2” tests as it looks like they probably have about a 0.5% false positive rate. But we can’t estimate this very accurately as they don’t report important information like the asymptomatic ratio.

But that would be 30k new “cases” per day which is about the same as your 45k so yes that sounds about right.

95316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 1, #235 of 1541 🔗

300k? Jesus. They need to lock us down NOW – that’s more than in March!

95021 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Margaret, #236 of 1541 🔗

You are quite right, unfortunately this could go on for weeks. I read about an old man in Wuhan, back in March or so, who had a positive test, showed no symptoms. He tested positive for several weeks, and unfortunately his whole block of flats therefor had to isolate, and he of course, too.

95030 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, #237 of 1541 🔗

Yes but the longer you wait the less less and likely it becomes that you will test positive.

When you’re actually properly infected, a week or after catching the virus, you will have a 70% chance of testing positive. A couple of weeks after you’re better that drops to probably less than 1% and then continues to drop after that. Eventually, after several months, the chance will be almost zero. Everything’s getting gradually washed out of your body all the time.

94815 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #238 of 1541 🔗

Something really stood out to me in this piece. Worldwide devastation and…430 Australians. He, like most leaders, talk as if the only option was to self destruct in the process of avoiding this virus (not even attempting to manage it):

Global report: Australian PM backtracks on plan to make coronavirus vaccine mandatory

With governments around the world anticipating resistance to compulsory inoculation from anti-vaxx groups and a sceptical public, Scott Morrison said on Wednesday morning in Sydney the aim was to get 95% of the population to have the jab and that he was “expecting” that it would be compulsory except on medical grounds.

“I would expect it to be as mandatory as you can possibly make,” Morrison said in a radio interview. “We’re talking about a pandemic that has destroyed the global economy and taken the lives of hundreds of thousands all around the world, and over 430 Australians . So, you know, we need the most extensive and comprehensive response to this to get Australia back to normal.”

94836 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #239 of 1541 🔗

Australia will never be back to normal at that rate.
Unless ‘normal’ means totally devoid of meaningful human rights.

94874 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to annie, 7, #240 of 1541 🔗

They mean normal in Australia circa 1790.

95263 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Achilles, #241 of 1541 🔗

Before the convicts first arrival?

95262 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #242 of 1541 🔗

They never have been normal, they’ve been winging it for hundreds of years.

95084 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #243 of 1541 🔗

Translation: we need to justify acting like shit-flinging morons. Better to risk severely damaging the population with barely tested vaccine than admit they fucked up. These people need to be skinned alive in a public forum.

95258 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #244 of 1541 🔗

over 430 Australians

Out of 26 million. Geez!

94824 PWL, replying to PWL, 7, #245 of 1541 🔗

“Some people do not display symptoms when they are infected so the daily totals are an underestimate of the amount of infection that is around.”

See, this looks to be all wrong. I am currently working on a piece (to appear here: http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/ ) using an academic source that states that more than 90% of symptomatic cases show viral pneumonitis. Basically, if you’re infected with SARS-COV, as rare as that might be, you know about it.

95012 ▶▶ guy153, replying to PWL, 2, #246 of 1541 🔗

If 90% of symptomatic infections had pneumonia I would expect the IFR to be much higher. This was a recent study in Iceland (where they did some of the most testing during the actual epidemic) reporting on the spectrum of symptoms:


But whatever happens in 90% of symptomatic cases is not relevant to whether you would know you had it. That depends on how many cases are asymptomatic.

94828 RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #247 of 1541 🔗

I’m interested in the rehearsal of this olsd chestnut :

There are few among our political elite and the supporting Senior Civil Service who have STEM degrees “

… as an explanation of governmental incompetence.

It doesn’t stack up. Those with STEM degrees have been prominent in constructing the mythology leading to the Covid political measures.

There are plenty of ‘scientists’ who seem incapable of grasping the basics of scientific inquiry – a necessary precursor to judging ‘The Science’ in all its contradictory aspects. In short : remember masks; remember PCR testing.

For an illustration of the distinction, have a look at this illuminating argument :


94845 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to RickH, 3, #248 of 1541 🔗

The BBC was constantly rolling out Sir David King, former Chief Scientific Adviser and Emeritus Professor in physical chemistry at the University of Cambridge, to argue that the lockdown should be sooner, harder and longer.

94854 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to WhyNow, 13, #249 of 1541 🔗

And the man responsible for incinerating millions of healthy animals on the basis of a, back of a fag packet, model supplied by another CU next Tuesday, Neil Ferguson….

94906 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, 7, #250 of 1541 🔗

You’re both spot on.

One of the real eye-openers of this Panicdemic has been the number of (obviously) technically accomplished holders of STEM degrees and doctorates who stumble around blindfolded in what should be the precursor : the nature of scientific method, examination of data, basic probability and logical analysis.

The most obvious example is that of Ferguson and Co. who played around with a black box computer model without validating at the most basic level either input or output.

94939 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 7, #251 of 1541 🔗

You are missing the point. It is the job of the decision makers in receipt of the model output – ultimately the PM and Cabinet – to interrogate the model, dataset and output before making a decision. The ‘scientists’ often have an agenda – they are political animals – as do the funding bodies. It’s a bit like a City analyst with a ‘buy’ recommendation on a company whose investment bank employer is the main adviser to the company. As an investment institution do you take the analyst’s word without questioning whether his recommendation is tainted by the corporate relationship? Google Henry Blodget/Merrill Lynch.

94974 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #252 of 1541 🔗

It is just not realistic to expect a politician to evaluate conflicting scientific advice and reach an independent judgement. That’s what the senior civil servants should do. They should be able to provide two or more solid well-researched options, with simple decision criteria.

94990 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to WhyNow, 3, #253 of 1541 🔗

If you are being asked to make a decision of the magnitude of the one Johnson faced in March, I absolutely would expect any worthwhile leader to require considerably more persuasion than Johnson evidently needed.

What was the cost side of the cost/benefit analysis for lockdown?

Why was he unable to recognise at once that Ferguson’s bullshit failed to pass the most casual of sniff tests? Why was he unable to go outside the groupthink bubble of scientists and find credible voices to warn him how nonsensical it was?

You don’t need to check every step of a scientist’s calculations to raise questions and seek answers to them from independent sources.I’m not Mrs Thatcher’s hagiographer, but I don’t believe for a second that she would have allowed herself to be led by the nose by these second raters. I don’t think even Blair or Brown would have, either, unless they saw opportunities for personal and political profit in it. Wilson certainly wouldn’t. Not going to commit on Cameron, Major, Callaghan or Heath – they were all pretty half-witted themselves.

95002 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to Mark, -7, #254 of 1541 🔗

Thatcher would be too busy molesting kids with Savile and Dominic Lawson.

95060 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 1, #255 of 1541 🔗

I think that Ferguson was used to give cover for the lockdown as the decision had already been made.

95007 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to WhyNow, 1, #256 of 1541 🔗

You cannot get a free pass on evaluating conflicting advice on something so fundamental to the future of the nation. A total abdication of responsibility, in my view.

95428 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RickH, #257 of 1541 🔗

Like a Data science or business analysis degree ?

94886 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 10, #258 of 1541 🔗

While it is clearly not the case that only STEM-based graduates are capable of holding the ‘scientists’ to account, it is almost certainly the case that those responsible for making decisions (Boris & Co) were lacking in the basic analytical skills and experience that tend to follow from a STEM-based background. In my view it is highly unlikely that Margaret Thatcher would have allowed the ICL ‘model’ to have been adopted without interrogating both the model and the dataset herself, and certainly would not have entrusted that task to someone such as Dominic Cummings’ interpretation of it.

94914 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #259 of 1541 🔗

the basic analytical skills and experience that tend to follow from a STEM-based background.”

Clearly such skills do not necessarily ‘tend to follow’. That has been comprehensively shown in this disaster (I’ll leave aside comments on Thatcher’s limited thinking skills 🙂 )

94921 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 2, #260 of 1541 🔗

Which Government ministers, charged with the task of making political decisions, have STEM backgrounds and what examples are you using to cast Thatcher’s thinking skills as ‘limited’?

94989 ▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, #261 of 1541 🔗

Yes. As discussed before you can have STEM or any other degrees and still be a muppet.

Perhaps the best example is Devi Sridhar. She is really a challenge to Hanlon’s Razor. Can she really be that stupid? Or perhaps just drunk on power now that she gets to be witch doctor in chief of Scotland.

95017 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, 2, #262 of 1541 🔗

I agree, but would also question Devi Sridhar’s STEM credentials (2 years of Biology between the ages of 16 and 18) before migrating to social policy.

96311 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #263 of 1541 🔗

Social Policy=Social Engineering.

94830 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #264 of 1541 🔗

Retail Report

Happy to report that a visit to my local filling station only resulted in one person masking up before entering the mini supermarket area to pay for fuel.

You would have thought someone driving a LandRover Defender would have been a bit more anti-mask, but obviously not, even the Waitrose driver paid for his fuel completely bare faced.

94933 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #265 of 1541 🔗

use a ‘pay at pump’ filling station – maybe the larger supermarket ones – i use tesco pay at pump to avoid having to go into the shop…

94949 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sue, 4, #266 of 1541 🔗

I’ve got no problem with anyone who wants to wear a mask, wearing a mask. They are just not for me, besides the people who run the cash registers at the fuel station will be out of work if we all go down the pay at till route.

94846 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #267 of 1541 🔗

Twitter has been used by the government to cause needless panic and slavish adherence to a futile and profoundly illiberal set of measures designed entirely for propaganda purposes.

How it works:

The government pushes out messages via ‘GDS’, the government digital service. Grovelling secret agent stool pigeon tweets tweet away across the land, racing each other to be the most obsequiously oleaginous in retweeting the ‘GDS’ propaganda and, hey presto, 17 million other tweets leap to the government’s every command

This secret society of government stool pigeons is secretly known by all the very secret people as the SSS (Soshlmija Stockholm Syndrome) but is really just a bunch of silly old tweets.

An early stool pigeon:


95273 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #268 of 1541 🔗

We have to find a way to intercept the GDS messages and insert our own. Time for a new codebreaking initiative, like Enigma in WWII. Any Turing-like geniuses out there?

94848 alw, replying to alw, 26, #269 of 1541 🔗

Out having a meal at a local restaurant here in a London last night because we were meeting with friends…arranged a long time ago and not because of Rishi’s so called incentive. Place packed, social distancing ignored, people queuing and waiting outside to get a table, no social distancing and no bedwetters. Celebs and media personalities there too also ignoring regulations enjoying life as it should be lived. The people are speaking.

94858 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to alw, 3, #270 of 1541 🔗

Same in our pub, except no C.A.M.P

PS. How can you bear to be in the same room as ‘celebs and media personalities’ (whatever they are). I would not be able to stop vomiting

94900 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Cecil B, 1, #271 of 1541 🔗

Always interesting to see their other persona.

94873 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to alw, 10, #272 of 1541 🔗

Was drinking in Bloomsbury last week, total opposite experience. Zealots manning the doors, getting aggressive when you tell them you are opting out of track and trace, and their hand de-moisturiser. Got shouted at for standing around 3m away from an empty bar to see what beer they had. Was much worse than most places in the Midlands. In fact every place I went to claimed to have never had anyone opt out of track and trace, FFS Londoners, come on, sort it.

94898 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #273 of 1541 🔗

Most of population of Bloomsbury live in densely packed properties.

94945 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to alw, 2, #274 of 1541 🔗

Well, they evidently are dense.

95168 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to alw, #275 of 1541 🔗

Bloomsbury is mostly a ghost town anyway. Hardly anyone lives there.

95288 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #276 of 1541 🔗

Just the ghosts from a hundred years ago.

95286 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #277 of 1541 🔗

Charles Mingus playing Duke Ellington’s Mood Indigo:


96085 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richard riewer, #278 of 1541 🔗

I love Mingus!

(Face) Rag Waltz would seem appropriate too?

94863 Mark, replying to Mark, 25, #279 of 1541 🔗

“Midtown Manhattan, the center of business in NYC, is empty. Even though people can go back to work, famous office buildings like the Time-Life skyscraper are still 90% empty. Businesses have realized that they don’t need their employees at the office.
In fact, they’ve realized they are even more productive with everyone at home. The Time-Life Building can handle 8,000 workers. Now it maybe has 500 workers back.
NYC has never been locked down for five months. Not in any pandemic, war, financial crisis, never. In the middle of the polio epidemic, when little kids (including my mother) were becoming paralyzed or dying (my mother ended up with a bad leg), NYC didn’t go through this.
Summary: Businesses are remote and they aren’t returning to the office. And it’s a death spiral — the longer offices remain empty, the longer they will remain empty.
In 2005, a hedge fund manager was visiting my office and said, “In Manhattan you practically trip over opportunities in the street.”
Now the streets are empty.

This is similar to the conclusions drawn in discussions here about London. These two centres are perhaps going to be among the worst hit, because they are the places where the numbers and rents paid are among the highest. That’s going to take the stuffing out of some of the most highly valued property markets in the world, and it’s going to affect investment funds, insurance companies, pensions and many other businesses dependent on property management and office occupation.

We’ve barely seen the beginning of the consequences of the panic response to covid.

This is not to say what should have been done or should not have been done. That part is over. Now we have to deal with what IS.

All very well to say “time to move on and not argue about past mistakes”, but some of us might prefer not to let the perpetrators escape unpunished, and the lessons go unlearned, ready for the next potential health panic.

On the contrary, let’s absolutely talk about what should have been done, what should not, by whom, and why. Let’s first, not forget, and second, not forgive. Otherwise it will all happen again.

95089 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, 5, #280 of 1541 🔗

Exactly. We should say it again and again, loud and clear:


95155 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 4, #281 of 1541 🔗

In mid March I was in my local (now closed and gone forever). It was after most companies had started at least trialing having all of their people working from home, but before everyone had been told to go home. At the bar was one of the regular barflies and we had a brief conversation. He worked (works?) on one of the trading floors of an investment bank and his whole floor was working from home.

Slight side-story, but relevant: an acquaintance of mine made an absolute fortune in the 00s. He had been a BT engineer and he had worked out how to shave nearly 2 seconds off the speed of an electronic trade. He then sold this improvement to the banks in succession at a fraction of a second each time. Goldman got 0.1 seconds, then Morgan Stanley got 0.2 seconds then Barclays got 0.3 seconds… and so on. He never needed to work again and I doubt his grandchildren will ever have to work because of how valuable those little 10th of a second parcels were to the investment banks. Faster trades are more profitable trades.

Anyway, I was surprised that a trading floor could possibly work from home and I said this. Nope. Not a problem. Everything was working just fine.

Another story. Up to only a very few years ago, it would be a regular occurrence to have to go into a client office, potentially to sit on my own in one of their meeting rooms, just so I could have a video conference with people who worked for that client in other parts of the world. Video conferencing systems just weren’t inter-compatible, you see. Today I had 3 video conferences with 3 different client organisations involving individuals in 7 different time zones and I did it on my laptop in my study at home.

I suppose that my point is that our domestic infrastructure- in major cities at least – seems to have got to the point where there are no technological bars to working from home. This has mostly happened without me noticing – until the last few months.

I’ve gone into the ins and outs and the implications of what’s happening with London here before and I hate it both on a practical and an emotional level, but I’ve become resigned to it.

The death of the major corporate office was always going to happen one day. What we’ve seen is an acceleration of the process by about 10 years in 5 months. I gather New York is pretty similar I gather Paris is not – La Défence, I’m told is nearly as bustling as it used to be (well, not right now, but was before the holidays and is expected to be again after la rentrée) Milan I haven’t had a chance to ask about yet. Madrid’s dead – but Madrid’s always dead in August. Why is Paris (ghastly hell-hole that it is) surviving while London is dying?

95242 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 2, #282 of 1541 🔗

While it is surely possible – from a basic technical perspective – that traders, salesmen and analysts can all work from home (although high frequency trading depends on physical closeness to the server), I cannot see it being a sustainable proposition. Husband was a commodities trader and shares this view. I’m not sure how compliance works and then there is the inevitable need for interaction between sales and trading, between different bits of trading (cash and derivatives). It’s a good idea for analysts to be separate from sales and trading – Morgan Stanley put the analysts in their own rooms when it moved to Cabot Square in the early 1990s – as trading floor noise can be a distraction and impromptu interactions with investment bankers might be better in ‘private’. I had coffee yesterday with a friend whose husband is CEO of a bank, and he is on the verge of ordering everyone back to the office due to lack of communication (those bits that matter, but which cannot be communicated on Zoom calls etc). Knowing salesmen and traders, my bet will be on the desire to be back in the office by September – the run up to bonus time will focus the mind!

95249 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #283 of 1541 🔗

Proximity to the server is certainly an advantage, in the same way that physical proximity to the exchange used to be an advantage when communication relied on runners, but I wonder whether massively increased connection speeds are limiting that advantage.

You make a good point about compliance – it must, surely be a worry. But what you say is encouraging. I walked from Blackfriars to Aldgate a couple of weeks ago on a Wednesday. I probably saw about 200 people – and almost all of them were standing outside pubs. I gather Lloyds has one floor operating. All of the offices looked empty.

95287 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 2, #284 of 1541 🔗

Trading floor politics heats up on the run-up to Christmas – out of sight, out of mind – they will be heading back soon, fear not!

95295 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #285 of 1541 🔗

Ex analyst here. Compliance is a big issue, but the bigger one in what is essentially a gussied up sales job, is that client interaction is now all virtual. And though you can sustain existing relationships remotely, it’s incredibly hard to build new ones. Or train juniors. This will be the death of what is, at the end of the day, a relationship driven business.

95304 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sophie123, 1, #286 of 1541 🔗

Agree. I was also an analyst, and team lead. Terrible for the next generation. Internal ‘chatter’ for sales and trading is important for capturing the other side of trades etc. Yes, also, how do you get new business.

95315 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sophie123, 1, #287 of 1541 🔗

My role is sales focused and I completely agree. Luckily for me, most of my relationships are established, so it’s not the biggest worry, but people move roles and it is next to impossible to really build a relationship with someone you’ve never met face to face.

95301 ▶▶▶▶ snippet, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #288 of 1541 🔗

Remote working is great for mid-career and upwards, but you can’t train people remotely. I can see many jobs turning into two or three days a week in the office having meetings, mentoring junior colleagues and team building, with the remainder wherever you wish, be that in the office or at home. How this will be staggered across the working week and across organisations is the interesting bit. I can see busier than old normal on Tues, Wed, Thurs due to everyone wanting to avoid commutes near the weekend. This may then even out over time as public transport gets more crowded mid-week. It will also be interesting to see how easy it is to stagger days in the office between working parents. Oh, and the train companies will resist 2-days-per-week season tickets, as it will hit them hard.

95345 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to snippet, 2, #289 of 1541 🔗

Funnily enough, this is what I suggested to my team today, from September. We have new starters who are struggling (how do you learn an organisation remotely?! You can’t), juniors who need to watch and learn, but most of all I need my external contacts to be able to meet face to face again. Ridiculously we can only meet in bars and restaurants now. Hard to discuss sensitive corporate matters in those settings.

95352 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #290 of 1541 🔗

Good points, and an interesting discussion from all the contributors in this sub-thread. Bandwidth is clearly a key (as indeed the writer quoted, James Altucher points out) but how the issues raised concerning limits to home working for finance workers will be dealt with will determine how quickly things go downhill I suppose. A lot of jobs are going to be AI’d anyway, I suspect, mid-term, as we move towards the mooted “singularity”..

The thing is that there is a huge difference between a slow shift allowing new interests to emerge, and the crash change we have just seen as a result of the coronapanic. Altucher points out the loss of so many of the other attractions of living in NY, all the cultural and social highlights. With those in place, it would be much easier to attract new people in and to sustain the city economy, but with such an abrupt crash, and if a lot of those are unable to reestablish themselves, it seems likely there might be real depressions in store for these cities.

Good question as to how Paris, Milan, Madrid will go. Frankfurt also.

Perhaps the cities that are also seats of government rather than just business and cultural centres will fare better? So London, Paris, Madrid, better than NYC, Frankfurt, Milan?

95380 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #291 of 1541 🔗

Pfft to Frankfurt. I lived there for 4 years – it’s a village by comparison with the others. Population of 650,000 and it’s a cultural desert, with nothing to recommend in its architecture either (the alte Oper is quite nice, but that’s about it). Most of its 2M working population live in the villages of the Taunus hills surrounding it.

London is unusual on that list because there’s such a stark divide between City, West End and Westminster. I assume that the West End will revive at some point, but I suspect it will be slow. If Tigress is right, there’s hope for the city because once the banks go back, it will force life back. Actually, if the banks start standing up and saying “bollocks to social distancing, you’ll all be at your desks by 8 and you will like it” that could make a very quick difference.

Speaking to a client at a… er… major tech manufacturing firm the other day, they’ve been told that white collar jobs won’t be expected back in the office until at least June of next year. Globally. I’ve had no indication that my company is opening any of its UK offices, well, ever, actually, but I assume it will happen at some point.

95456 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, #292 of 1541 🔗

Met a chap last week who had been working from home as IT Support for provincial police HQ. He’d just been promoted to the single role that required his actual presence on site, not a happy bunny.

95293 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mark, 3, #293 of 1541 🔗

The Mayor of New York is a criminal.

95355 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to richard riewer, 2, #294 of 1541 🔗

Not going to contest that one…

95694 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Mark, 6, #295 of 1541 🔗

I will never forgive the bahaviour of the various authorities responsible for this. Northamptonshire police threatening to search your trolley. Derbyshire police screaming at people to go back home instead of walking in the fresh air. Council staff in the Wirral trying to forbid people from walking round a seaside pool.

And where on earth do I begin with the reasoning behind stopping people from using indoor swimming pools! FFS, they are bathing in disinfectant!

94865 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #296 of 1541 🔗

Boris reminds me of another favourite story of mine. The General Election win must have made him feel like a god, but he bleeds like any man:

The Man Who Would Be King

Both sides take him to be a god, though in fact the missile was stopped by his leather bandolier. Victory follows victory, with the defeated added to the ranks of the swelling army. Finally, nobody is left to stand in their way and they are summoned to the holy city of Sikandergul by the high priest of the region. He sets up a re-enactment of the arrow incident, to determine whether Dravot is a man or a god by seeing whether or not he bleeds. When his shirt is torn open, they are amazed to see the masonic tag around his neck. It contains the sacred symbol left by Sikander (their name for Alexander the Great), who had promised to send a son to rule over them.

Hailing Dravot as king as well as god, they show him the royal treasury, which is full of unimaginable amounts of gold and jewels that are now all his. Carnehan suggests that they leave with as much loot as they can carry as soon as the snows have melted on the mountain passes. Dravot, however, is beginning to enjoy the adulation of the locals, settling their disputes and issuing laws, and even dreams of visiting Queen Victoria as an equal. He is also struck by the beauty of a girl called Roxana, the name of Alexander’s wife, and cancels their pact to avoid women, saying he will marry her in order to leave the people an heir. When she is reluctantly brought to him, he tries to kiss her, but she, terrified that the touch of a god means death to a mortal, bites his cheek. Seeing him bleed, the people realise he is only human and try to grab the English impostors.

95458 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, #297 of 1541 🔗

Got the DVD, second hand.

94877 microdave, replying to microdave, 25, #298 of 1541 🔗

A few weeks back I mentioned the shop & post office at Ranworth Staithe, in Norfolk. I paid another visit today and was rather concerned to see 2 metre distancing stickers and a couple of handwritten notices asking people to wear a mask. I walked straight in, bought an ice cream and asked the owner if he had been “Got At” since my last visit – his reply: “Yes”. He then told me someone from the council had turned up and proceeded to lecture him for several minutes about all the things he needed to do, before the owner pointed out to said “official” that he was NOT wearing a mask! Apparently that was the end of the visit, and he’s just complied to keep them off his back. He doesn’t, however, give a damn whether customers follow “The Rules”…

95047 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to microdave, 3, #299 of 1541 🔗

One of the bosses that I once worked for explained to me, as a youth, that “Rule are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men”

95349 ▶▶ gina, replying to microdave, 1, #300 of 1541 🔗

North Norfolk District Council officials have been doing the same to publicans and shop keepers around Stalham and North Walsham.

95702 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to microdave, #301 of 1541 🔗

I have been saying this for the last two years; we are gradually reducing our compliance with all laws/rules/official advice. Since the EU really got going, we have become more and more like France; the centre makes laws/rules/gives “advice” and the French ignore the lot.

The UK, once a place of almost complete probity as far as police, customs & excise, taxes, consumer law, is gradually losing all of this. Watch out for the HMRC being caught letting drugs through for a kickback. That will be the beginning of the end.

Whether you feel this is a good or bad thing, of course…

94879 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 10, #302 of 1541 🔗

Presumably you’ve seen the bemused Spanish doctor trying to explain to the news anchor that they might be blowing things out of proportion a tad


94892 ▶▶ Will, replying to Lucan Grey, 8, #303 of 1541 🔗

This clip has made my day. It is quite brilliant. I imagine the poor doctor has probably lost his job for speaking the truth…

94956 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #304 of 1541 🔗

Loved the way the female presenter had to bring in a colleague to help out. The doctor just ploughs on bless him.

94966 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to bluemoon, 5, #305 of 1541 🔗

Male interviewer: “We’ve lost control, haven’t we?”

95013 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #306 of 1541 🔗

I loved that moment. Don’t know about Spain, maybe it happens more there, but here our TV pundits are not used to articulate people with balls to stand up for themselves – they simply don’t know how to handle it. It reminds of the moment on Question Time when Hitchens said Cameron hated his own supporters (which was obviously true). The look on Justine Greening’s face is priceless.

95144 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to bluemoon, #307 of 1541 🔗

It’s the moment casinos change the dealer when a punter is winning too much.

95090 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #308 of 1541 🔗

Bless him…..he just destroyed those two news anchors.

94880 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 18, #309 of 1541 🔗


Well Hancock, if household transmission is the reason for not wearing masks in an office

A) why is it needed in a shop?
B) you’re screwing up kids back to school argument?

Put the spade down – surely you’ve learnt, put your spade down and stop digging the hole you are going to fall into again!

94890 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Country Mumkin, 11, #310 of 1541 🔗

No excuse? How about working in a hellish dystopia of his creation surrounded by undead order followers in face nappies?

Assuming masks are permanent, I for one will never be setting foot in a corporate office again.

95317 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, #311 of 1541 🔗

Face nappy zombies. Ugh!

94915 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #312 of 1541 🔗

You make it seem like he doesn’t know what he is doing. He does. He’s got used to bossing people around and doesn’t want to stop.

95094 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #313 of 1541 🔗

Rather tone deaf Lieutenant Gruber is (sorry have turned all Yoda here)

He says that there’s no excuse for people not to return to work. Then why make it difficult to do so?

Has he not realised that he’s responsible for huge swathes of Central London and the City being a ghost town?

If he wants people to return to their desks then abolish all antisocial distancing, get rid of all the pointless “Covid safety” theatre and stop all talk of “bubbles” or rather gulags and let people get on with life.

It’s not rocket science.

94881 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 14, #314 of 1541 🔗

The best of only having access to only the first part of articles is a blessing as it could stop reading more of the nonsense. There were two references today by Toby to Spectator Ross Clark about why we were not wearing face masks during the height of epidemic and why now.
But it is not that he is against face masks. He is lauding several countries in Europe which made face masks compulsory early and suddenly couple them with low mortality. He has no idea what he is writing about. There are much more appropriate examples just now of enormous outbreaks despite facemasks in Peru, Argentina etc. Also, the European countries he quoted are many, ironically, experiencing quite more cases now like Greece and Czechia. This apart from the blind admiring of Asian countries having success with facemasks is utter nonsense as they have been hit with influenza like everybody else. This apart from Ross Clark’s complete ignorance that there is no evidence that face mask work for protecting against virus or stopping transmission.

These journalists, late comers to lockdown sceptic having fun of the inconsistency with the UK advice about masks doesn’t impress me, if it is based on such bad judgements.

 The other article by Chis Snowdown about PHE seems also rather cheap and shallow. That is probably a much more complex issue. Naturally the leaders of PHE have done mistakes like the death data but PHE was correct in not advising masks which Snowdown now thinks is a good idea. There are rumours that PHE was a scapegoat convenient now because of the death data but there could be more interesting disagreements. PHE is a bureaucratic organisation with bureaucrats at the top but down under there are still may able bodied persons well versed in communicable disease control. It was absolute correct to stop contact tracing when the numbers went up fast. The same thing was done in the swine flu pandemic abandoning contact tracing when the numbers explode. It is impossible to do, in such a situation, whatever this professional journalist’s opinion. People in the know further down in the organization might not have agreed to the government mad mass testing scheme and there are multiple rumours about this. It is convenient now for the government to scrap the only body which might have dissenters.

94912 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to swedenborg, 2, #315 of 1541 🔗

I loathe this government, but what do you expect them to do? PHE failed abysmally. They seem to be run by the same sort of people that run the National Trust now. Woke, interfering, overpaid agitators for controlling and improving the pleb’s lifestyle, rather than protection and preservation which is their remit.

94946 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #316 of 1541 🔗

But below in PHE there is a big group of experts in communicable disease control
which seem to have not agreed with mass testing and that could be a hidden excuse to get rid of it.But otherwise agree that the top is abysmal but the worst thing was that persons in communicable disease control was not in control of PHE

94982 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #317 of 1541 🔗

There was a very interesting link posted yesterday by Carrie about PHE:



Supports the purge of dissenters idea.

94888 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 10, #318 of 1541 🔗

If you haven’t you must watch the interview with the Spanish doctor linked to by Toby. A priceless take down of the hysteria-generating newscasters.

94901 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Bill Hickling, 2, #319 of 1541 🔗

Muy bien. Although I feel the good doctor might not get invited back, and the YTS assistant that put him forward may be before The Inquisition as we speak. And NOBODY expects ….

94913 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Bill Hickling, 1, #320 of 1541 🔗

He was brilliant,and a bit of honest speaking really annoyed the make journalist, didn’t it?

94973 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Bill Hickling, 2, #321 of 1541 🔗

Toby also linked this blog yesterday. Well worth the read if you didn’t catch it. Sums up the mass hysteria whipped up by MSM brilliantly.

94897 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 17, #322 of 1541 🔗

I’m interested in the piece by the Covid Civil Servant. The amazing thing is that it is normal in the higher echelons of the Civil Service for people to move departments fairly regularly. Thus Sally Collier has been Chief Regulator of Ofqual since 2016. Her previous roles include:

  • Chief Executive, Crown Commercial Service
  • Managing Director, Government Procurement Service
  • Director of Procurement Policy and Capability, Cabinet Office

She showed her mettle in the A level algorithm debacle and she’s had 3 years in the current job to acclimatise. Imagine how effective she’d have been if the music had stopped just before the Covid effluent hit the fan rather than in 2016 and she’d just moved to Ofqual!

It got me thinking about applying this principle of musical departmental chairs to other walks of life. I was an NHS GP for 35 years. I now work as a Racecourse Medical Officer, providing pre-hospital trauma care to Jockeys- I previously combined the two roles. But to be a GP involves 3 years of training on top of the 6 years at Medical School plus 1 year of “house jobs” and the trauma care requires attending a specialised course accredited by The Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh. How would it be if I were to be moved to cardiac surgery or neurosurgery next week? Not convinced the patients would benefit.

Can you imagine James Dyson hiring someone who’d studied PPE to engineer his vacuum cleaner, or JLR to take on a Modern Languages graduate to design a new electric drive chain? No me neither!

But it’s apparently OK for Civil Servants and indeed Ministers to move around from one Department to another at neither of which they have any clue what they are doing. Hancock is demonstrating this very well as is Gavin Williamson. They are both clearly out of their depth and almost certainly being advised by career civil servants who are in a similar state of (un)grace!

94952 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DocRC, 4, #323 of 1541 🔗

I bet you could wing it as the CMO in Scotland though – he’s a dentist!

94963 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #324 of 1541 🔗

Don’t know the Scottish chap but don’t suppose I could do a worse job than Chris Whitty- I don’t live in an Ivory Tower and I’m not a mate of Ferguson’s!

94962 ▶▶ Mark, replying to DocRC, 2, #325 of 1541 🔗

The writer says “It is fashionable for civil servants to claim that you do not need specialist knowledge to solve a complex problem”, but in truth my impression is that this was always the philosophy in the top levels of the civil service through the halcyon years of the mid-C20th. Elite and classically educated high performers were expected to be able to turn their hands to whatever task was required, and expertise was available in the lower ranks when needed.

94977 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Mark, 3, #326 of 1541 🔗

I’m sure you are right. However but be able to take advice from someone in the lower ranks you have to be able to grasp the subject matter. Not convinced that the senior civil servants at the DoH with their Greats or PPE degrees from Oxford who are advising Hancock & Co have any clue about science (otherwise Ministers wouldn’t be talking about The Science as if there were such a thing)!

95104 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DocRC, #327 of 1541 🔗

Traditionally, civil servants came from Cambridge. The politicians came from Oxford.

95110 ▶▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to matt, #328 of 1541 🔗

Perfect synergy. The Fen Polytechnic and The Eton Middle Common Room!

94984 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to DocRC, #329 of 1541 🔗

This is the heart of the problem, and we really need to get to the bottom of this. It creates a breed of people who manage problems, not solve them.
Prime example is NHS Digital. Have a look at the bios of the leadership. Extraordinary!

95023 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to WhyNow, #330 of 1541 🔗

Yes, but the Chief Exec Sarah Wilkinson was Head Girl of her school and was a member of the advisory board of The Computing Department at Imperial College……

94904 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 7, #331 of 1541 🔗

Report from South of France. It’s good news and bad really.
Good news is that in France anti-social distancing is totally ignored. There are 1m markers on the floor but everyone completely ignores them. Saw one outdoor restaurant with screens between tables but that was the exception. In most French towns, muzzles are mandatory everywhere, but perhaps 30-40% ignore this (but it varies at different times, almost like a chain reaction of non-compliance). The town I am in introduced muzzles shortly before I arrived, and for the first day or two the busy bodies kept telling you that you needed a muzzle, but they don’t bother now as it is a lost cause.
Sit down at a restaurant or bar, indoors or out and the muzzles can come off – Covi knows not to attack. Public transport has no distancing, trains are packed with Parisians heading south for the holidays.
Bad news is that in shops, indoor attractions and public transport you have to wear your muzzle. Wearing it below the nose doesn’t seem a problem though. Also market areas mandate muzzles. Saw some police politely asking a market shopper to wear their mask, it’s not agressively enforced as far as I can see, so long as you have a muzzle with you.
We did go to one little town on the coast and that seemed far more rebellious. There, hardly anyone wore muzzles, even some of the shop keepers. The authorities shut businesses down for non compliance so these people are really defiant.
It feels as though the French are more aware of the nonsense than the British. Their government isn’t as weak and pathetic as ours, for example they have no muzzle exceptions, where in the UK the government have made it possible for pretty much anyone to be exempt. The French are compliant for now but it feels more likely to swing to disorder than the UK. Superior BBC brainwashing seems to have paid off.
Funniest covid madness moment was a woman removing her muzzle to saturate it in her alcohol gel. Wonder how long before a smoker manages to self-immolate via this accellerant strapped to their snout. Again, there is going to be some contention to win a Darwin award this year, so many applicants.
Overall I would still recommend a holiday in the south of France, even though the madness is here, the lack of anti-social distancing is a pleasant experience.

94918 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to TheBluePill, 5, #332 of 1541 🔗

The French have access to the videos of Professor Didier Raoult, of hydroxychloroquine fame. Some of these get over a million views. I don’t think in the Anglo Saxon world there is any medical doctor with the stature of Professor Raoult who is actually involved in treating patients. I believe it was Professor Raoult who advised Macron to insist that French children went back to school for two weeks before the summer holidays. He has to be careful though and not advocate any actual law-breaking because the other members of the horrible scientific council would like nothing better than to bring him down.

94931 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to TheBluePill, 5, #333 of 1541 🔗

Wonder how long before a smoker manages to self-immolate via this accellerant strapped to their snout.

That is just a ridiculous suggestion. And entirely possible.

94941 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #334 of 1541 🔗

I shall not sympathise.

94970 ▶▶ guy153, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #335 of 1541 🔗

You may also get rather drunk from the alcohol fumes if you do that.

95269 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to guy153, 1, #336 of 1541 🔗

Maybe that was the intent?

94905 Jane in France, replying to Jane in France, 6, #337 of 1541 🔗

I see that an entire primary school class in Glasgow along with their teacher is to self-isolate for fourteen days after a pupil tested positive for covid. The kids are to be issued with iPads for remote learning. And Nicola Sturgeon has decided to extend the Aberdeen lockdown for a week against the wishes of the council leaders. Amid all this, support for independence has risen to 54 per cent. Comments in The National all take the view that the Aberdonians have nobody but themselves to blame. They shouldn’t have gone to the pub while the killer virus was raging.

94923 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jane in France, 3, #338 of 1541 🔗

Expect this in every school, come September. I think in England, 2 tests will equal an ‘outbreak’ and bingo! Oh, the hapless fools, eh? MW

94924 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Jane in France, 2, #339 of 1541 🔗

Many of those pub-goers will have been teachers. I missed my chance on Monday but am highly recommending anyone who does see a teacher in a pub in the next few weeks, to takes a picture.

95113 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jane in France, 1, #340 of 1541 🔗

Who is testing these children, the school teachers or parents. FFS do not get tested.

96313 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stefarm, #341 of 1541 🔗

Just Say No.

94909 mjr, 11, #342 of 1541 🔗

Sheep Report
Went to do my weekly shop. Central Shopping centre.. Very disappointed to see so many people wearing masks – not just in the shop but between shops. Aldi no problems being unmasked.
Also visited building society. Had to wait by the entrance. There was hand sanitiser and posters but no suggestion i needed to use it. Told to go stand on the marker inside to wait for cashier. Staff all unmasked. I was unmasked. no problem.

94910 Sarigan, 2, #343 of 1541 🔗

The Horrendous Damage of Lockdown


A telling piece with links to the effects of LD on health, education, poverty and abuse.

94911 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #344 of 1541 🔗

We’re often told that prevention is better than the cure. How does that square with the destruction of economies around the world?

If the economy wasn’t important in the first place then why are they trying to rescusitate it now?

If it is important then why did they wreck it?

94922 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #345 of 1541 🔗

We’re also often lectured about the “precautionary principle”, but somehow that didn’t apply to an unprecedented global gamble with the economy and the societies that all our lives and well-being depend upon, in the face of a disease we already knew from experience in China and elsewhere was nothing more than a bad flu epidemic at worst..

95039 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #346 of 1541 🔗

All I can see is further destruction.I.e.
Arbitrary quarantines and face masks in shops.2 decisions that look like purposeful destruction of whole sectors

95108 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Nobody2020, #347 of 1541 🔗

A good start

94919 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 5, #348 of 1541 🔗

Reminder to sign petition (already 81,182 signatures)

Prevent any restrictions on those who refuse a Covid-19 vaccination

94930 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Victoria, 3, #349 of 1541 🔗

Thanks for re-posting. I’ve signed, but the link needs to be put in front of the readers here as often as possible.

94975 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Victoria, #350 of 1541 🔗

Expect you’ve already done this but if you could contact Hitchens, Dolan, Luke Johnson, Hugh Osmond, Peter Ebdon, Matt le Tissier on Twitter, they all have lots of followers and could re-tweet

94926 JustMe, replying to JustMe, 8, #351 of 1541 🔗

I’ve heard that mask exempt badges and lanyards are being handed out, for free, at Morrisons in Huddersfield. I will try and check out this story tomorrow.

94927 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JustMe, 6, #352 of 1541 🔗

They’re following in the footsteps of Tesco and Sainsbury’s who have been handing out the sunflower lanyards for hidden disabilities.

95048 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #353 of 1541 🔗

Likely they were losing business to Tesco and Sainsbury’s, hence this move..

95049 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 4, #354 of 1541 🔗

Very likely as well given the amount of social media shaming that Morrisons were subjected to after horror stories of unmuzzled customers being turned away or being asked for a doctor’s note.

94929 ▶▶ anon, replying to JustMe, 16, #355 of 1541 🔗

they should hand them out to all their floor staff too.

poor buggers

94932 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to anon, 12, #356 of 1541 🔗

I’ve spoken to a lot of staff in supermarkets they are in the main hugely ignorant and misinformed (media I guess)

younger ones in my experience don’t even seem or appear to be able to contemplate the idea of NOT wearing a muzzle

94967 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to JustMe, 11, #357 of 1541 🔗

Shops beginning to cotton on that mask wearing is not in their best interest?

94979 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Margaret, 11, #358 of 1541 🔗

On line grocery shopping since the face nappy rules, is a revelation. I have two weeks to refine selections to the absolute essentials which has reduced the spend by nearly twenty percent which I spend in the butchers, fishmongers and small greengrocers. Tesco’s loss is the independent shops gain.

95032 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to JustMe, 4, #359 of 1541 🔗

I had a customer yday, female with her son(?), wearing sunflower lanyards, and the boy had a sign attached to it, she not. I was about to ask if they are “exempt lanyards”, but she was wearing a muzzle. Confused…

94937 Tophattingson, replying to Tophattingson, 5, #360 of 1541 🔗

‘Morality pills’ may be the US’s best shot at ending the coronavirus pandemic, according to one ethicist

This idea would backfire in a hilarious way.

Let’s imagine a world in which opponents of restrictions were indeed given this selflessness-maximising psychoactive substance to “correct” their behaviour. And we’re not going to use the weak, vague suggestions given in the article, but instead an absolutely flawless substance that only maximises selflessness and has no other effects.
Well… you’ve made a few million people perfectly selfless, but you’ve not made them rewrite their views of the restrictions.
There is indeed a tragedy of the commons issue, except the political campaigning one matters here. All “supporters” of some position wants that outcome but they don’t individually want to do the heavy lifting to achieve it. Time commitment, financial commitment, and in the case of culture war charged issues, willingness to lose family, friends, jobs etc. Giving a few million anti-restriction people the maximum selflessness pill, the only thing you would ensure is their inevitable political domination when they all sell their house and start pulling 22 hour days to bring an end to whatever issues they think are the greatest causes of human suffering, which is quite likely to be the coronavirus-related restrictions.

94940 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Tophattingson, 5, #361 of 1541 🔗

Any ‘ethicist’ promoting the idea of something like that has no idea what ethics are.


94944 dpj, replying to dpj, 13, #362 of 1541 🔗

I haven’t seen this posted already on here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53820225
It claims this is one example of misinformation being shared online:

2.4 million views for an article claiming quarantine harmed public health”

Lots of reputable sources including mental health charities would say otherwise and claim that is a very true statement.

94976 ▶▶ mjr, replying to dpj, #363 of 1541 🔗

But dont you realise that what the BBC says is like the Koran. Every word is true and cannot be contradicted

94953 Caramel, 3, #364 of 1541 🔗

Posting the Plan B videos again because they’re great and aren’t getting much press. https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/videos/

94955 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 8, #365 of 1541 🔗

So have I got this right? Boris, in order to save his own sorry arse, is planning two more years of emergency powers.

94960 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bugle, 23, #366 of 1541 🔗

The Nazis needed a fire at the Reichstag as a pretext for suspending their democratic institutions indefinitely.

Johnson only needed a cold.

95000 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bugle, #367 of 1541 🔗

Yes – but that’s just for starters of course!

95045 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, 1, #368 of 1541 🔗

Sorry, has that been announced officially? If so I have missed it..

95120 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Carrie, 1, #369 of 1541 🔗

It’s in Toby’s content. “And finally…”

94958 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 54, #370 of 1541 🔗

More loony bollocks from my bf’s university.

He’s just received more details of his accommodation’s Covid policy and his ‘social bubble’ of 15 people. If anyone in that bubble tests positive for SARS-CoV-2 (regardless of whether they have symptoms, so it would be a ‘positive’ case only and not an actual infection, like we’re seeing with all these bloody ‘spikes’ around the country) then the entire bubble has to isolate for 14 days. They are not allowed to leave their rooms for any reason, not even food shopping or exercise, and because he’s in catered accommodation, food will be brought up to him. He knows of another accommodation block which is self-catered and they have been told that the university will not bring them food, instead they have to stock up like a nuclear bunker if one member of the bubble tests positive and they have to isolate.

My bf is paying over £7000 (yes, that’s how much his accommodation costs for the year) for the privilege of potentially being in a fucking prison. This is just utterly insane. I can’t even begin to imagine how physically and mentally unhealthy it is for young people not to get any exercise for or even fresh air for two weeks. This is one of the things which has really pissed me off about this whole ‘pandemic’ – rather than focusing on individual risk and how the individual can reduce that risk by eating healthily, exercising and getting enough sleep, thereby strengthening their immune system, the focus has all been on draconian measures which have been dreamt up by an OCD sufferer which are actually detrimental to health, such as locking healthy people away. Total madness.

94968 ▶▶ peter, replying to Poppy, 20, #371 of 1541 🔗

It’s called fascism.

94971 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Poppy, 7, #372 of 1541 🔗

Just say no

94981 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Poppy, 9, #373 of 1541 🔗

I hear you! My daughters are in the same boat. One is going back to her university town on Friday and will be under house arrest for 2 weeks. We’re paying local folks to keep her in groceries so she doesn’t starve (she’s in her own apartment). The other is a teacher candidate who is supposed to be back in the classroom 2 days a week. She just moved and lives alone and is terrified — not of the virus — of being under house arrest if a kid tests positive. We’d have to come back to the city from our country place and take care of her food needs for 2 weeks. She’s a student teacher, so no pay if she can’t do her paid work as a tutor. I hate being here but we only have 1 car so I can’t be left alone in the country with no car. She’s hoping she can do her practicum online, but we’ll have to wait and see what her university says. Meanwhile, the government, school boards and teachers’ unions are still fighting about how to open schools in a few weeks so we’re not sure if/when kids will even be back in the classroom. Oh, and it’s mandatory masks for all! Just another reason I don’t want her in a classroom. I feel for your bf — this is total lunacy.

95014 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 12, #374 of 1541 🔗

How awful, it’s just a total mess isn’t it? All these restrictions cause everyone so much grief and inconvenience for no good reason. My bf reckons universities are introducing these fascist restrictions in order to stay marketable to international students (big cash cows for unis) who may have come from countries with draconian measures, such as China, and be expecting the same restrictions here. Since when did a Western democracy model itself on a communist dictatorship?

95034 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Poppy, 14, #375 of 1541 🔗

Since 23rd March in U.K.

95071 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 5, #376 of 1541 🔗

Since when were British universities staffed by bedwetting morons?

95140 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to annie, 4, #377 of 1541 🔗

Since the Soviets infiltrated the HE institutions in the 60’s…….

95213 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 7, #378 of 1541 🔗

Since they were turned into businesses rather than centres of academic excellence.

95102 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Poppy, 5, #379 of 1541 🔗

Who is going to check they are not leaving accomodation?
Nobody checks if people quarantine after coming from Spain.

95668 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to JulieR, 3, #380 of 1541 🔗

Yes, I can see a lot of Googling SAS sneaky-beaky videos on how to exfiltrate your accommodation and then infiltrate back in afterwards. Extra points for getting a carry-home pizza back without anyone smelling it.

AND NO, it’s not irresponsible; a face-mask will protect all other people perfectly, the government says so!

95103 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Poppy, 8, #381 of 1541 🔗

Since about March. I honestly can’t see these mental measures lasting for very long. When I was of university age, (late 80’s) these rules would have lasted about half a day with a lot of the students I met and the idea they could be enforced would have been just silly.

These days…hummm I heard from a lady I know who has kids in a school, aged about 11 or so, her child got detention FOR WEARING THE WRONG COLOUR SOCKS…perhaps this is why they know students will follow the rules, especially if they come from China or somewhere else that is very authoritarian.

A nasty situation for sure. I don’t know what I would do. If it was my first year, a no brainer, defer until madness goes away but if it was my last year I would feel compelled to stick it out. WOW, this really is just madness, the idiots really are in charge now.

95223 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 2, #382 of 1541 🔗

I’ve been shocked at the draconian detentions that were handed out to my (very well-behaved) granddaughter once she started secondary school.

Presumably they’re not allowed to do lines any more, so they are kept after school, which means the parents who picked up younger siblings 90 minutes earlier, have to trail back to collect the 11 year-olds – or ask Grandma to do a detention taxi run.

The silly thing is that surely writing out “I must remember my PE kit” 100 times would be more effective than just getting your homework done in school.

95210 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Poppy, 2, #383 of 1541 🔗

Since it ceased to be a democracy.

94986 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Poppy, 14, #384 of 1541 🔗

If I were him I would withdraw from the university course with immediate effect. It’ll only serve to saddle him with unrepayable debt and whatever qualification he is aiming for will be worthless in a dystopia. Plus by the sound of it he is seriously endangering his physical and mental health purely by virtue of attending.

95001 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Richard O, 9, #385 of 1541 🔗

Fortunately it is his final year in the hellhole. His parents have paid for part of it so he isn’t in as much debt as the average student. He feels the need to struggle through until the end but I have begged him to consider living at home or with me and then commuting given how most of the course is online now.

95011 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Poppy, 5, #386 of 1541 🔗

Ultimately it’s his call. Thinking back to my student days I cannot imagine having to face a nightmare like this at such a young age.

If we can somehow get through this and come out the other side with our humanity, I think your generation may end up being considerably tougher than all its predecessors going back as far as WW2.

95083 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Richard O, 2, #387 of 1541 🔗

I was at boarding school in the 1970s and believe you me we found a way of getting out of the building at night. Subversion and escapism might not be the best way to tackle this, but I cant imagine all those healthy athletic students actually staying put.

95226 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DressageRider, 1, #388 of 1541 🔗

No CCTV in the 70s though.

95043 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 6, #389 of 1541 🔗

For his mental health I think he would be better off living at home or with you!

95056 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 6, #390 of 1541 🔗

He’s probably better getting out of that hall or residence, errrr, prison.

95101 ▶▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #391 of 1541 🔗

Sadly the university imposes a hefty fine for backing out of its accommodation. Still if I were him I’d pay that fine to dodge this dreadful fascist bullet and live at home but I think he’s worried about running up cost in train tickets to uni for his (few) contact hours, plus he lives quite a way away from the uni so it’s not terribly practical unfortunately.

95176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 2, #392 of 1541 🔗

You and your boyfriend have my sympathy. Unfortunately he’s caught between a rock and a hard place. If money were no object, I’d happily help out.

95028 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Poppy, 4, #393 of 1541 🔗

Tell him to use Open University or another online degree instead.

Cheaper and more respected way of doing it.

Plus he can still work and earn money to pay the fees.

95675 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #394 of 1541 🔗

Yet another unintended consequence. If everything is now online, then why not? I can see an enormous destruction of the better Universities, as the only reason to go there was to “sit at the feet” of a master in your subject. If you can’t do that, you might as well do the whole thing online at infinitely less expense.

96229 ▶▶▶▶ Splendid Acres, replying to RichardJames, 1, #395 of 1541 🔗

Agree the OU is just as good, if not better, Studied with them myself.

I worked in the HR department of a University, a six week temp position that was extended to over a year covering different desks.

In recruitment once, we had an application from a gentleman with 11 GCSEs at A, 4 A Levels at A and a First from Oxford in Classical Studies. I knew such people existed (Morse, anybody?), but never saw the paper proof before. He had applied for an associate lecturer position (you go on the books but may never be called).

I knew from the start he had zero chance at an interview, let alone a cruddy zero hours job.

If you want an eye opener, check out the academic achievements of the lecturers. 2nd class degrees and strings of BCD grades.

Ostensibly, this is so lecturers can identify with students who struggle with the subject. In reality, the staff can be cowed.

Universities have gone the way of big business. It’s mostly about turnover.

As an undergraduate, you don’t sit at the feet of the master, you get nudged along by academic mediocrity.

95070 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 8, #396 of 1541 🔗

A cast-iron reason to drop out.
Start over. Study with the Open University instead.
They can’t imprison you. And they have years of experience in distance learning. And their tutors are brilliant. I used to be one, which proves it!

95099 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to annie, 1, #397 of 1541 🔗

I think if he were starting uni now he would do this, but he’s in his final year now so he reckons that he may as well tough it out until the end. He got a First in his second year results and is doing a valued degree at a top UK institution, so it should be worth it, but what degree is going to be worth the paper it’s printed on in the economic armageddon that approaches us?

95232 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Poppy, 2, #398 of 1541 🔗

If he found himself in the situation where he was supposed to quarantine, he could go straight home or to you and work from there, as it would make no difference to his classes.
The people in his bubble need to set up an early warning system between themselves.

95143 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Poppy, #399 of 1541 🔗

Is this his first year at uni? If so, I really feel sorry for him, and the other students who are forced to accept this, and all the other garbage, that’s being thrown at them, including so-called “virtual freshers’ week” – FFS. If I were a student hoping to start uni this year I’d be taking a gap year, without a doubt.

95147 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #400 of 1541 🔗

Sorry, I see from other posts it’s his final year. Best bet is to ignore the “rules”, and don’t agree to any testing.

95321 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Poppy, 2, #401 of 1541 🔗


95665 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Poppy, 1, #402 of 1541 🔗

The idea of locking you up indoors, is to ensure that you reduce your vitamin D3 levels to a dangerous level, so that the mild flu-like disease will kill you instead, or cripple you for life.

94961 Caramel, 16, #403 of 1541 🔗

So Australia will be amongst the first to get the vaccine and the Prime Minister wants to make it mandatory. We’ve had so few deaths and cases so the harsh restrictions so it would make more sense to give it to a hard hit country. It’s a catch-22 for the sheep because they don’t want to get a rushed, mandatory vaccine but what the f did they think the end game was. The Premier of Victoria has hinted that lockdowns will be extended because not enough people aren’t getting tested so goal post no. 57 has been shifted. Maybe the reason for less testing is because you restricted people’s movements and closed everything and an increase in cases is an excuse for them to lock us down further.

It is easier to travel between countries in Europe than it is to travel between states in Australia because of the border closures.

94965 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 12, #404 of 1541 🔗

Two questions today. Is the tear supposedly shed by St Jacinda because she broke the NZ constitution, or is it because she got found out?

And secondly where is Boris? Has he slipped across the border for a holiday in Scotland and been incarcerated by the Scottish fishwife in the dungeons of Edinburgh castle in some belated reprisal for what happened to the young Mary? Or has the strain of presiding over the most monumental breach of human rights in England since the Normans harrying of the north, finally caused him to lose what sanity he had left and now the country is being run by Gloss Footballs? (think opposites).

Either way I wouldn’t shed a tear.

94994 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Old Bill, 2, #405 of 1541 🔗

The brain replacement has led to rejection symptoms as Bozo’s body is not used to any (even evil) thought processes.

95203 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, #406 of 1541 🔗

We rebellious Northerners had at least given the bastard Normans cause to quell us by salting our fields.

De Piffle, on the other hand has no such excuse – unless this is his idea of levelling up.

94969 swedenborg, 3, #407 of 1541 🔗

Another hard to swallow Chinese article used to say that asymptomatic transmission possible


They describe 24 patients but in the discussion “These asymptomatic cases were mildly ill”.Another startling contradiction “None of the 24 cases developed severe pneumonia as of Feb18, 2020, and only 5 cases showed typical symptoms during hospitalization” Also these 24 patients were all treated with antiviral medication many with side effects. Doubts that anyone really was an asymptomatic. They then describe the transmission. Not convinced they can prove that (Case 13) really was transmitting the disease to his wife during a hospital visit. There is no discussing of an alternative route of infection as a plausible explanation. A serious author would have gone in to much more detail to exclude that.
In short very thin data to say that asymptomatic (they all were still mildly ill!) really proved that they transmitted.

94985 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 3, #408 of 1541 🔗

I was amused to see this article today: https://www.metro.news/quack-and-trace-as-pub-bars-donald-duck-locals/2116636/

Annoyingly, I can’t find an e-mail address for the pub. My good friend, Jethro Q. Walrustitty, would like to give them a piece of his mind.

95005 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Ben Shirley, #409 of 1541 🔗

Well, it is reassuring that there is a little resistance.

95026 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Ben Shirley, #410 of 1541 🔗

They are on Facebook if you want to send them a message or comment…

95044 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ben Shirley, #411 of 1541 🔗

Did you see the picture under it? As I was scrolling down, I was trying to work out what it was supposed to be. Could it be a young man pretending he’s not peeing down his leg?

The explanatory headline is disgraceful!

95075 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ben Shirley, #412 of 1541 🔗

A couple of things – first, they say that it’s a legal requirement but I’m pretty sure it isn’t. Or perhaps it is in Wales? Second, the assertion that they have people with health issues who need protecting. I assume they mean staff and customers, in which case track and trace surely won’t protect them because it identifies an infectious person and their contacts after the event? By which time anyone in the pub at the time will have been exposed.

94988 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 8, #413 of 1541 🔗

Even in Spain the MSM don’t want to report the truth. 7 minute must watch


94993 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to T. Prince, 1, #414 of 1541 🔗

Yes, Toby linked to it above and several others have here today. It cheered me up no end.

95040 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 1, #415 of 1541 🔗

Yes, especially when you see this which is seriously scary…
‘No jab, no pay’

(Posted on yesterday’s thread a couple of hours ago, just before today’s came up, but thinking a lot of people might have missed it)

95073 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Carrie, 3, #416 of 1541 🔗

Wow, didn’t David Icke say this would happen about 3 months ago?

95079 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #417 of 1541 🔗

Watch his interview on the London Real site from mid-March. It’s prescient.

95096 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Laura Suckling, 3, #418 of 1541 🔗

You know the world is fucked when David Icke is taking sense

95185 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #419 of 1541 🔗

Ha, ha, very true!

95109 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #420 of 1541 🔗

He said this would happen 20 years ago.

95187 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Two-Six, #421 of 1541 🔗

But I didn’t believe him!

95377 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Two-Six, #422 of 1541 🔗

He said a lot of things 20 years ago of which a very great percentage have been way off the mark. One I recall was traffic wardens having the authority to come into your home without needing a warrant when the police were outnumbered in the ensuing social unrest. Traffic wardens ffs!

95655 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Bella, #423 of 1541 🔗

I wouldn’t count this out.

96262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, #424 of 1541 🔗

A lot of things.

Go on then, that’s one so far.

95361 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Laura Suckling, #425 of 1541 🔗

Many years ago Laura. He quite likely repeated it about 3 months ago.

95092 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #426 of 1541 🔗

This isn’t new, the draconian “No jab, no pay” has been law since 2015! It was passed into law in the Social Services Legislation Amendment (No Jab, No Pay) Bill 2015

95192 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to JohnB, 1, #427 of 1541 🔗

Yes, but that would have been for well established vaccines (still don’t agree with it). This will be for a very rushed and inadequately tested vaccine that no one could possibly know the long term side effects of.

95267 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Laura Suckling, #428 of 1541 🔗

That law does not have any statement about “ well established vaccines”. If the COVID-19 vaccination is added to the “v accination schedule”, then children need to have it otherwise their parents will lose benefits.

The “No jab, no pay” only applies to children too, not adults, and mainly children from poor backgrounds as the “No pay” relates to those receiving benefits payments, not payment from employment.

95296 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to JohnB, #429 of 1541 🔗

Even worse then.

95347 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #430 of 1541 🔗

What do you make of this, also from Australia today? https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6182527315001 Seems like Dan Andrews’ lockdown is on very shaky ground because he lied about the reason for it and has now been caught out on the figures…

95497 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, #431 of 1541 🔗

Throw Dan to the crocodiles! Chomp!

95066 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to T. Prince, 1, #432 of 1541 🔗

That doctor was brilliant!!! He explained facts in a clear and concise manner, not to mention his facial expressions were priceless.

95374 ▶▶ Bella, replying to T. Prince, #433 of 1541 🔗

Hilarious. Doesn’t matter how she spins it the doctor has got her number

94995 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #434 of 1541 🔗

Posted from earlier – sent the complete thing to Toby among others and he has answered.

Just got my last FOI request back from the DHSC about the PCR tests they are using
Some really interesting comments in it such as:

– do the tests you are using detect only “covid-19” as stated in the Coronavirus legislation:
“coronavirus” means severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)?
The test is for SARS-CoV-2 RNA.
– or does it show positive to all the coronavirus family of viruses?
Just SARS-CoV-2 RNA.
– supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.
SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). my highlighting so no justification provided for isolating people regardless if their test is positive.
Patients can have SARS-CoV-2 RNA before onset of illness, during the illness and after resolution of symptoms (all variable periods). The result has to be taken into context of symptoms present.
They also provide a link to a document by Health Technology Wales which in answer to this question:
– the official policy/guidance from DHSC to the various bodies who are following the above policy. I can confirm that the Department holds information relevant to your request. As the information held by the Department is in the public domain, we will under Section 21 of the FOI Act (information accessible to the applicant by other means) refer you to the published source, a summary of evidence on the accuracy of the test,


It does include a few gems such as:

  • We identified 39 individual studies and one pooled analysis reporting outcomes including diagnostic accuracy, detection rates and the time taken to obtain test results. We carried out quality assessment of the studies and judged the majority to be at risk of bias in one or more aspect of their design or conduct, which means their results may not be reliable. So not too accurate then these studies?
  • Some studies did not include methods of confirmatory/differential diagnosis to validate the test results obtained (e.g. the proportion of likely false positive and negative results). A pooled analysis estimated the sensitivity of an initial RT-PCR test result to be 89%, using results of repeated RT-PCR as the reference standard. So does this mean that there is an estimated 11% false result?
  • There are important gaps in the available evidence on the effectiveness of tests for the presence of SARS-CoV-2. Studies of virus testing in asymptomatic patients, or in specific populations such as healthcare workers are limited in number and there is no evidence on the validated diagnostic performance of the tests beyond their use in the hospital setting. So pretty useless then?
  • a true assessment of the accuracy of RT-PCR test results is very challenging, and using these RT-PCR for validation mean the same issues apply to the results of antibody tests studied in this way. so the test has lots of problems with accuracy and the antibody test cannot be used for doublechecking the results due to these inaccuracies? again not too useful a test if it has so many accuracy problems?

At least they have answered truthfully and reading between the lines I come up with “it’s all bollocks and we cannot accurately test for it to tell if anyone has it”.

95004 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #435 of 1541 🔗

Nice work AG!

95003 arfurmo, 4, #436 of 1541 🔗

Something wrong here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8643313/Britain-records-15-coronavirus-deaths-preliminary-toll.html but no use of word “terrifying” despite there being 812 infections. What would St Jacinda or Kim Jong Dan do with numbers like these?

95015 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 19, #437 of 1541 🔗

Shopping trip:

Went to buy some bathroom flooring today.
Roadworks everywhere – laying cables ready for 5G. Saw one muzzled person outside, woman late 50s early 60s. Everyone else behaving perfectly normally.

At the carpet shop, the owner was out on the forecourt cutting carpet lengths. I waved and set off towards the vinyl section.
“Have you got a mask?” he shouted over, conversationally.
My mind blanked. Mask, what mask? Oh yes!
“I’m er (what’s the word?) exempt” I replied.
“That’s fine” he said and went back to his carpet cutting.
He joined me, equally muzzle-free, in the vinyl section, which is essentially a narrow corridor. We were literally shoulder to shoulder having a perfectly normal conversation.

Aldi tonight ……

95019 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #438 of 1541 🔗

Isn’t it amazing that this behaviour is now classed as subversive. Stop the world I want to get off.

95074 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, 7, #439 of 1541 🔗

Don’t. Stay on, subvert, carry on the fight.

95464 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #440 of 1541 🔗

I’ve got an hour to wait in my car dealer service reception tomorrow, been told I’ll need a mask or wait outside.
Subversion awaits (lawnotfiction pdf at the ready)

95027 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 34, #441 of 1541 🔗

Think I may have won a small victory for us sceptics but hard to tell.

My wife has a friend who runs a small fish and chip shop. A few months ago we visited just after they had reopened and she said that the council had visited an given her a verbal OK to reopen as she met the guidance.

At the time I did explain that guidance is not law nor enforceable etc etc – you all know it on here as it’s been covered lots of times – but she wouldn’t believe me as she is one of those who always knows better regardless but as the wife has known her longer than me and it’s our 23rd wedding anniversary on Saturday (29 years in total) I thought discretion is the better part of valour so leave it and keep the peace.

Today we were in town and popped in for lunch.

Got chatting and the wife’s friend asked what I had been up to as she knows how I get when I get bored and start to get myself into trouble.

Told her I’ve been in legal wrangling with councils including her local council, FOIs etc and sort of winning and getting really interesting answers and so on most of which have been on here.

Anyway she said that the council EHO and been round and had a few issues with her not enforcing masks, social distancing etc so she asked for the written notice signed by a JP as per Public Health legislation and where does she claim the compensation as per the law? – as I told her 2 months ago she should do.

Council nazi said it’s under health and safety legislation, not public health, and the council could only advice, not enforce as this was not under their remit and left.

She let slip that she remembered what we had discussed before and quoted it the best she could remember.

She knows I’ve done lots of risk assessments and so on so she asked if I could write her one to cover the guidance from government.

Told her NO, I couldn’t as the government has no science to back up their guidance or if they have it they refuse to issue it, what I can find rips their arguments to pieces and so on but I could give her a “cover note” on why a risk assessment could not be written based on evidence available.

She said thanks but not necessary, she will tell the council this if they ever turn up again and then give me a call if needed.

I enjoyed today anyway.

95035 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #442 of 1541 🔗

Good work!

95111 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #443 of 1541 🔗


95029 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #444 of 1541 🔗


This is important news published US data

 “It appears that the excess death count during the COVID-19 outbreak in the 25-44 age bracket cannot be wholly attributed to the virus. Less than half can be accounted for by current COVID-19 numbers from the CDC (which may be lagging). It is unlikely that deaths in this age bracket are related to other common COVID-19 comorbidity conditions. It is likely that these are deaths related to suicide, despair, alcohol and drug abuse, and violence; collateral effects of various public policy mitigation measures. One can reasonably conclude that the lock-downs and stay at home orders may have had significant negative effects. This is a cursory analysis and will be refined as data becomes more complete.
8000 died of C-19 10 000 died of lockdown.And calculate quality of year lost!

95033 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to swedenborg, 6, #445 of 1541 🔗

“Collateral effects”. I knew that one day that would come back to bite us. How many of us sat apathetically through foreign wars whilst our governments tore the shit out of countries and called it “collateral damage”.

95036 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, 1, #446 of 1541 🔗

The same happened in England (not Scotland, nor NI) : z-score of 7.87 in Week 12, when all EuroMOMO countries had normal z-scores of 2–4 (scroll down to z-score and select age group 15–44, then shift the time frame to 2020): https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

95038 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #447 of 1541 🔗

According to this reuter report China does not count asymptomatic cases as confirmed cases


95328 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to swedenborg, 1, #448 of 1541 🔗

How inscrutable.

95041 p02099003, 4, #449 of 1541 🔗

What appears to have been forgotten about Peru and Argentina is that they are in the Southern Hemisphere and the infection rate is following a trajectory commensurate with their geographical location. Peru following a more tropical trajectory and parts of Argentina following a trajectory associated with higher latitudes. The same applies to South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

95046 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 1, #450 of 1541 🔗

Partial reason for below average deaths: just looked at EuroMOMO database for the UK (E+Sc+NI (don’t know why Wales isn’t there)), and the z-score for 65+ is below average, 45–65 “normal”, but 15–44 on the rise again approaching “substantial increase.” Gessing the pool of vulnerable elderly has been exhausted!


95057 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to IMoz, 1, #451 of 1541 🔗

I was going to ask the same question about Wales.

In fact I was going to bring up the same point concerning the 15-44 bracket in England. You beat me to it! They’re not Covid related deaths – so evidence of the murderous policies of this poor excuse for a government?

95518 ▶▶ Will, replying to IMoz, #452 of 1541 🔗

15-44 back out killing each other with knives and in cars I assume.

95051 Aremen, replying to Aremen, #453 of 1541 🔗

Someone has posted on here today that Morrisons in Huddersfield (a town close to my heart but not to my home) is giving out free lanyards. Two questions:
Are these lanyards, as I understand the word, just the things you hang a badge on, or do these have words on which say “mask exempt” or some such, or do they include the badge?
Does anyone know if other branches of Morrisons, esp here in the south west, are doing the same?

95067 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Aremen, 1, #454 of 1541 🔗

I believe they’re handing out the sunflower lanyards which is bright green with sunflowers all over it.

95127 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, 1, #456 of 1541 🔗

I understand that Sainsbury’s have been doing the same.

95052 NickR, replying to NickR, 2, #457 of 1541 🔗

I’ve just copied this clip from Prof Michael Levitt demolishing some guy from Imperial, very much worth watching…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7167&v=_1u_yworTco&feature=emb_logo

95081 ▶▶ matt, replying to NickR, 2, #458 of 1541 🔗

It’s over 2 hours long and with the best will in the world I’m not going to find the time. Any chance you could point me to the best bit(s)?

95117 ▶▶▶ Klein, replying to matt, 1, #459 of 1541 🔗

Its at about the 2 hour mark

95206 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Klein, #460 of 1541 🔗

Found it in NickR’s post above. Very good stuff.

95332 ▶▶ GLT, replying to NickR, #461 of 1541 🔗

Toby has a transcript of this interview on this site somewhere.

95059 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #462 of 1541 🔗


Death by ventilator Remember April? Ventilator,ventilators.

“Our finding that IMV itself is significantly associated with ICU mortality (pOR 16.46, 95% CI 4.37-61.96) coupled with subgroup analyses showing regions with higher ICU mortalities coincide with regions with higher IMV rates (USA, UK, Italy) are notable because it questions the benefits of IMV as well as the wisdom of public policies emphasizing ventilator availability in coping with the pandemic.”

95116 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, 2, #463 of 1541 🔗

My understanding is that the standard of care was to bypass the usual cpap/bcpap and jump straight to the ventilators

95124 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, #464 of 1541 🔗

IMV? Intubated Mechanical Ventilation?

95135 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Two-Six, 1, #465 of 1541 🔗

intermittent mandatory ventilation

95137 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Two-Six, 2, #466 of 1541 🔗

Invasive Mechanical Ventilation. But means the same 🙂

95369 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to guy153, #467 of 1541 🔗

Thank you

95193 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Two-Six, 4, #468 of 1541 🔗

Increased Mortality Vehicle

95064 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 29, #470 of 1541 🔗

Having fun with sheeple on Daily Fail comments.

My first comment on the story about how many positive tests were found:

From a FOI answer I received today – “- supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated? “SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). ” Exactly as us sceptics have been saying for months now, positive test means absolutely nothing. Pass it on.

Then my follow-up comment:

Why the thumbs down? This is from Government under a Freedom of Information Request so it’s the TRUTH – positive test means zero, nada, zilch, nothing so ask yourself why the pretence in MSM and from authority it does? 77th/13th/paid trolls earning overtime?

Time to put down the wine and relax, job done for today, trolls and sheeple annoyed.

95121 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #471 of 1541 🔗


95123 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #472 of 1541 🔗

You’ve had a good day AG!

95134 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #473 of 1541 🔗

How do I make a FOI request and whom shall I annoy first?

95303 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Thinkaboutit, 2, #474 of 1541 🔗

I am still waiting for an answer to min. Asked for the breakdown of expenditure for the £10billion spent on track and trace.

Most Gov. departments have a FOI section.

95306 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, #475 of 1541 🔗

Oh! Share that one if/when you get an answer, please. I still can’t find a way to believe that number. Would love to see a pathetic attempt to justify it.

95405 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Awkward Git, #476 of 1541 🔗

Good for you Git!


95082 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #477 of 1541 🔗

Dido Harding reminds me of Alan Yentob – has a catalogue of failures in the BBC which if he was in ITV or Channel 5 or any other commercial station would get him sacked but no, the Beeb keep moving him around to the point of even creating a post just for him – “Creative Director”

Harding is the same. She presided over that fiasco where TalkTalk’s customer data was severely compromised and the company had to pay a massive fine to the Information Commission. Then she’s involved with the test & trace scheme that is found to have violated GDPR as well as there are rumours that the data collected has been sold to third parties or even stolen. Now she’s in charge of this new body and I won’t be surprised if she’s proven to be crap at it yet again.

No wonder we’re so screwed if we keep having incompetent nincompoops like Harding running the show.

95404 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #478 of 1541 🔗

Also don’t forget her husband is on the 1828 advisory board which calls for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system and for Public Health England to be scrapped. The latter has already happened.


95091 gina, replying to gina, 4, #479 of 1541 🔗

It may already have been mentioned but this is a survey which will feed into House of Lord’s commitee on life post covid. Takes 15 minutes to fill in.Its on Simon Dolans Twitter feed.

95183 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to gina, 1, #480 of 1541 🔗

Done. Most enjoyable, obviously many answers quite scathing.

95311 ▶▶▶ gina, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #481 of 1541 🔗

Yes, lots of heavy banging of the keyboard.

95285 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to gina, 2, #482 of 1541 🔗

Done today , made me feel better getting it on paper where it might be useful . I quite enjoyed it

95309 ▶▶▶ gina, replying to janis pennance, #483 of 1541 🔗

Me too.

95367 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to gina, #484 of 1541 🔗


95095 NickR, replying to NickR, 4, #485 of 1541 🔗

Sorry, my earlier post highlighting Levitt taking an Imperial guy apart doesn’t always open at the right point, go to 1hr 59 to see the top stuff.
…Open at 1:59

95114 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to NickR, 5, #486 of 1541 🔗

Watched it all and realised what the problem is. The premise is wrong, a “case” is not as dangerous as thought. And there they sit, the boys from Imperial and play with models, pretty much like the climate change boys. It is a computer game. Destroy real lives while modeling with selected factors. Real life is not an issue even. The only high IQ guy there was Michael Levitt.

95126 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to BJJ, 6, #487 of 1541 🔗

Michael Levitt -very high IQ plus common sense plus articulate. The Imperial guy, none of either! No contest.

95732 ▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to DocRC, #488 of 1541 🔗

Agreed and judging by the room he usually zooms from, he looks as if he might lead quite a normal sort of life rather than just live in academia.

95131 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to BJJ, 4, #489 of 1541 🔗

The imperial plonkers think computer games are real life.

95338 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Thinkaboutit, #490 of 1541 🔗

I remember watching a BBC doc on young people addicted to comuter video games. They didn’t mention the people from Imperial College and other computer driven modeling centres..

95366 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to richard riewer, #491 of 1541 🔗

I bet Ferguson was an annoying WOW stat nerd who everybody hated and couldn’t play his character properly.

95158 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BJJ, 4, #492 of 1541 🔗

One things I took from it was that those apart from Levitt were definitely the “common purpose” type.

95247 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BJJ, #493 of 1541 🔗

They also have started from a position of 100% susceptibility in the population.

Levitt, TCells, spot on

95398 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to NickR, #494 of 1541 🔗

Thanks Nick, when I saw the duration of the video I didn’t pursue it – now you’ve given the relevant start point I’m definitely going to take a look.

I think you mean 1:59:00 though!


95098 Hugh, replying to Hugh, 8, #495 of 1541 🔗

I’m glad to read about the event in Trafalgar Square, however it’s a little difficult to get to for some of us, and I was wondering if there is anything else planned more locally for those of us in the North. Also is anything being planned next Monday the 24th to mark the first month? If it was up to me I would like to see a stand being made every month until this nonsense is over. To be clear – the nonsense of compulsory face coverings to access basic necessities etc.). I understand they had a weekly event for some organisation or other earlier this year! 😉

95119 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hugh, 2, #496 of 1541 🔗

There are local sections on the KBF forum and some are getting regular meetings organised.
It’s not an ideal way to communicate at first because it’s up to people to keep checking out their local section.
We have a daytime meeting planned in W Yorks for the 26th.

95204 ▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to Cheezilla, #497 of 1541 🔗


95327 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #498 of 1541 🔗

If you set up a kbf private forum, email notifications for each post are available.

95105 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 13, #499 of 1541 🔗

Our local paper always carries a “wanted” section which shows photos of local criminals who have been shoplifting, selling drugs etc and asks for help in their capture. The only problem is that most of the offenders are now masked!

95130 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Margaret, 3, #500 of 1541 🔗


95107 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #501 of 1541 🔗

Had lunch today with another friend (thanks Rishi!). The rain meant that there were less people eating out however the restaurants had more people than the shops.

Hardly anyone was going in to the likes of Primark, H&M, Zara, Sports Direct, etc.

If supermarkets are seeing a dramatic decrease in footfall as Toby mentions above, it seems like the “nonessential” shops are even in worse shape.

What are the odds that huge swathes of Oxford and Regent Streets will have loads of “to let” signs before the end of this year?

95325 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #502 of 1541 🔗

The world is going to hell in a handcart ! We must make a stand !!

Fewer, ffs.

95344 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #504 of 1541 🔗

Are non-Scots allowed to vote?

95542 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to richard riewer, #505 of 1541 🔗

Give it a go. In the past i have heard that political petitions are stripped on all those not on electoral roll but I don’t know if true. I think it’s about numbers primarily.

15k is equal to last summers final Independence march on Holyrood. Police figures suggested slightly less.

95122 NickR, replying to NickR, 30, #506 of 1541 🔗

I’m working on some data from the NHS bed occupancy data, all public domain stuff and other data on deaths in care homes, at home & hospitals.

  • It looks like 78% of all the people who died in hospital got infected in hospital.
  • I think we can pretty sure that virtually 100% of all care-home fatalities became infected in their care home.
  • Most of the long-term ill who caught the virus and died in their own home caught it from a visiting carer.
  • Of the 22% of hospital admissions who caught the virus outside hospital quite a chunk of them were people coming from care-homes where they had already been infected.

When you boil it down it looks like 90% of fatalities caught the virus in either hospitals or care homes!
Then think about that, is it really surprising? The average age of the dead is over 80, 95% had at least one co-morbidity, but it also means that probably only something like 4,000 people died after catching the virus outside of the health care system.
We now know a lot more how to avoid it and treat it. It’s quite hard to get this data but I do think that this is a fundamental question we should be asking, just how many people actually died of this thing who weren’t already in the health care system. I think not many.

95132 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to NickR, 7, #507 of 1541 🔗

You’re quite right. Covid is a nosocomial infection so avoid hospitals and nursing homes; in fact don’t get banged up anywhere, especially on return from Spain and France!

95133 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to NickR, 5, #508 of 1541 🔗

You’re entirely correct—it seems that all State “epidemiologists” were busy with computer models and it didn’t occur to any of them that hospitals would be a transmission vector. As for the second, I think the Lord Advocate in Scotland is investigating deaths in care homes there…

95139 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to NickR, 10, #509 of 1541 🔗

Also the system of care for the elderly was just terrible before covid.

With underpaid overworked mobile carers popping to do the bare necessities as fast as possible because they had to rush of to do another person after 15 mins.

There was almost no care easily accessible for people who are almost well enough to go back home after being in hospital so they stay in hospital.

All the old council run care homes and sheltered accommodation facilities was shut down.

Well established communities of old folk and their old folk houses were allowed to fade away.

Care cost everything that the cared for ever owned in a very short time.

Care homes have become a cash cow for off-shore investment companies to systematically strip assets of everybody in the UK.

Many care homes operate by moving all the old folk into day rooms to manage them, stuffy over heated, falling asleep in front of the telly all day.

The Police and Ambulance crew were becoming the primary care givers for many elderly people in the UK.

Yer lets protect the old people shall we. FFS. Such bollocks.

95521 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, #510 of 1541 🔗

At the very start I said in my blog that some civil servant, somewhere, must be rubbing his or her hands with glee as s/he totted up the number of frail old people whose expensive care would now be unnecessary, as they were being conveniently removed.
It’s quite certain that s/he exists.

95146 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to NickR, 7, #511 of 1541 🔗

Thanks. Great work. The powers that be know this, but are just hoping they can fool enough of the people for enough of the time to keep this going. Paying them to remain ignorant, of course, helps perpetuate the myths. We really need the hospital doctors and nurses to speak out on mass in the public interest, and NOW.

95199 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #512 of 1541 🔗

Yes. I don’t think it is a cover up, in the literal sense. I think it is an unwillingness to see the obvious, leading to increasingly complicated ways of making it appear less obvious.

95149 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to NickR, 8, #513 of 1541 🔗

So, to summarise, the NHS and care industry killed most of them.

95166 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #514 of 1541 🔗

National HEALTH Service?
CARE industry?

95178 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Miss Owl, #515 of 1541 🔗

That should be the No Health Service (courtesy of someone from Twitter)!

95397 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #516 of 1541 🔗

Nebulous Health Service.

95209 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Miss Owl, #517 of 1541 🔗


95237 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Miss Owl, #518 of 1541 🔗

No. Don’t overstate.

95394 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #519 of 1541 🔗

Clap! Clap! Clap!

95522 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 1, #520 of 1541 🔗

Do they treat that?

95167 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to NickR, 9, #521 of 1541 🔗

Also notable that Singapore got its Nosocomial infection rate down to statistical zero in March, by mostly ignoring the mask bollocks & being absolutely rabid about handwashing in their hospitals.
Basically they assumed in hospitals it is primarily contact transferred like Norovirus or Polio.
We are slowly coming round to that view in the west, just a pity thousands have to die while the experts catch up.


95184 ▶▶ matt, replying to NickR, 3, #522 of 1541 🔗

Nick – this is great stuff. When you’ve finished the analysis, please share widely!

95189 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to NickR, 5, #523 of 1541 🔗

This is the heart of the matter. It is not “with comorbidities”. It is “terminally ill”. 25% of all Covid deaths had dementia or alzheimer’s. And they were ill enough (with dementia or alzheimer’s) to be in hospital, where they caught the infection.

This is the health service shutting down normal society to try to stop the spread of infection in… the health service.

95236 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, 3, #524 of 1541 🔗

This is the point. A large proportion died because they were at the end of their lives for a range of the normal causes. And many of those had lived for a year beyond expectation.

95201 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to NickR, 1, #525 of 1541 🔗

And there’s a reasonable case for arguing that shutting down the health service has saved lives.

95689 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to WhyNow, #526 of 1541 🔗

It has; look at the number of Sudden Infant Deaths in the USA. The drop in deaths is absolutely stunning and is due to the far lower numbers of children being vaccinated.

96183 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, #527 of 1541 🔗

Definitely not overall.

95348 ▶▶ NickR, replying to NickR, 2, #528 of 1541 🔗

Avoid the nosocomial (easier said than done) infections & you have a mild flu season death toll!
We won’t end up with a better health service by bankrupting the country.

95136 ikaraki, replying to ikaraki, 22, #529 of 1541 🔗

So I would like to say sorry to everyone here, especially those who took the time to respond when I was seeking advice a week ago. I gave in.

Unfortunately the difference between taking home £1000 per month or not is just too vast so I have had to start wearing a mask in work now. To counter act having to wear a mask I will now be truthful as sin when speaking to customers, with my new favourite to reply when asked by people if they can come in (work still has signs, more now big boss is back) say I don’t have an SIA licence and they can come in if they want. FYI – because yes, it works, yes, it has been done in my work, yes, it was suggested, yes, you could argue… – I do not wish to claim disability or health issues, morally have and want to right now. I felt terrible when caught by surprise in a Glasgow McDonalds I responded ‘I’m exempt’ to the question ‘do you have a mask?’ yesterday, made the decision for me. Things may change though, very angry and lots of health issues stem from prolonged time in such mental states, gotta be a study somewhere… I made my stand. The midge net resulted in me getting sent out the shop, now wearing a black Buff. Want to name and shame, but see above, need my income and scared of reprisals. Was not quiet about any of the events of the previous week to anyone, customer or not.

To people have taken to create a community here, you have given me hope that, regardless of the end result of this latest global panic, there will be individuals of sound mind willing to resist. To those who replied a week back, I truly do appreciate the time took to get back to me. You have given me so many ideas, and I will implement some. I think you all will be glad to know I now have a new machine, it gets very hot, creates loads of nasty smoke, and is the start of a business, run on my terms. Investigated public liability insurance, qualifications, sole trader status, have secured funding, traded some work for a practice space, written plans, got expenses records going, finalised a price structure, bullshit free, my industry. Pissing off my current employer can take second fiddle, the energy I have is now being put into something for me. Plan for two decades time is an electric arc furnace, time to see what I can really make of myself.

95151 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to ikaraki, 14, #530 of 1541 🔗

There is no way that YOU should be apologising ibaraki. None of this is your fault. You cannot help the fact that we have an incompetent government who make decisions based on how popular they think it will make them, who have no concept of what a positive test actually means and who think that wearing a germ riddled muzzle on our faces will get us back to work and to get shop.

None of us will judge you here.

95307 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Margaret, 3, #531 of 1541 🔗


It is obscene how much that view pervades life. Came out my manager’s mouth last week, ‘it is the image we project’, or some such. Today was less civil.. You’d think with me ignoring all rules since March that the customers would very quickly make up their minds if they wanted to deal with me, by my count 100% were willing. Seems like my city isn’t the village I think it is or the shop doesn’t have a ‘negative’ image. Now telling customers that come in without a mask and fumble to put it on to leave it off if they want, that there is no need, completely up to them.

95359 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to ikaraki, 2, #532 of 1541 🔗

What if we all write to your shop manager and tell him what a charlie he is? I will write to him no problem.

95363 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Two-Six, 2, #533 of 1541 🔗

He is probably illiterate. Cretins are hard to offend.

95393 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Richard O, 1, #534 of 1541 🔗

Yes, doesn’t understand some basics that’s for sure. When I had the misfortune of dealing with him today his most used reasons were ‘I was only told x time ago’, ‘I was given the incorrect information’ and ‘[reading from law and trying to apply it selectively]’.

95387 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Two-Six, 2, #535 of 1541 🔗

Well, if I remember, I may name drop here when I get my final pay.

95156 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to ikaraki, 9, #536 of 1541 🔗

I admire your honesty. You were forced into an impossibly difficult position by the spineless cowards around you. These are the unseen effects of such appalling and unnecessary policies. I just hope that you get to have the last laugh.

Great idea to start building for future self-employment. What greater incentive could there be to make a success of your endeavour than freedom from idiots?

95292 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Richard O, 2, #537 of 1541 🔗


I will when I get to hand in my notice. Should probably put a deadline on that one..

Yup, liking the incentive!

95162 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ikaraki, 3, #538 of 1541 🔗

Don’t beat yourself up. Maslow’s first step always takes priority. Everything else builds from there.
Good luck with your venture.

95276 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Cheezilla, #539 of 1541 🔗


Interesting hierarchy, seems to like there is a systematic removal or threatening of the foundation blocks.. Might add myself to the map when everything is in full swing.

95164 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to ikaraki, #540 of 1541 🔗

I think everyone has their entry points to push back on this, it doesn’t have to be hero stuff. Small actions matter to help your own state of mind too, whether you feel forces to follow measures in other areas.

I was thinking today a small thing to say to friends who are distancing or wearing masks, offer a hug/embrace when saying goodbye. Say something like “Hugs Not Masks” as you do. Let them know your view is coming from one of positivity. Even say it to your customers as they ask you about mask wearing policy. Maybe leave the hug out. That’d be plain weird. Lol

95707 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #541 of 1541 🔗

A friend of mine and I ostentatiously shake hands in front of other members of the public.

95180 ▶▶ matt, replying to ikaraki, 4, #542 of 1541 🔗

Chin up and don’t beat yourself up. Your first duty is to yourself (unless you have kids) and paying for food and keeping a roof over your head and having the self-respect that comes from employment trumps pretty much anything else.

We’ll beat them in the end and things will get better – never despair.

95266 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to matt, 1, #543 of 1541 🔗


No kids so just got myself. It does give a sense of worth, I get to channel that money into my own venture. Things will get better, will endeavour to help make that so.

95195 ▶▶ Mark, replying to ikaraki, 2, #544 of 1541 🔗

Good luck with your plans for the future.

Re the rest, it’s hard to criticise anyone for being flexible in the face of a loss of livelihood, as long as they give in grudgingly. Discretion can be the better part of valour, and it can be better to live to fight another day from the stronger position of being employed and earning.

95257 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Mark, 1, #545 of 1541 🔗


Having my job threatened in that way really did give things perspective. Feel I have a better understanding of those who end up in these situations, doing what is necessary to get money.

95280 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to ikaraki, 1, #546 of 1541 🔗

No judgements from anyone here for doing what you have to do to survive! I think that’s why some here feel it’s important we fight the good fight because we know not everyone can. I have no job to protect, I’m not an influencer, and I have zero social media presence so I can “afford” to buck the system, and yet even I am finding it very difficult because where I am there’s 100% compliance. You have no need to apologize, it’s the tyrants who have brought this upon us who should but won’t.

95342 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #547 of 1541 🔗


I’ll just have to adjust to life, for a short while, as a sleeper agent, ha! Usually the obvious one, this monkey got tricks though. Gonna be hard to accomplish but had the thought to never allow myself to be in this position again, need to always have what I need to survive and be able to fight for it. Then I can help good causes fully.

95264 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to ikaraki, #548 of 1541 🔗

You have my full support.

95331 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Kath Andrews, #549 of 1541 🔗


95281 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ikaraki, 1, #550 of 1541 🔗

Agree with all the replies here. You fought the good fight and you lost a battle but not the war.

He who runs lives to fight another day and hope that your ideas become the start of something big.

95326 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #551 of 1541 🔗


Wrote the above reply before seen your comment. Sigh.. But yes, fully agree! Will get on it, Ikaraki Industries could have a vocational school for sceptic’s kids. They’ll be ‘working like slaves’, yet somehow always on a lunch break. Ideas time of the evening..

95305 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to ikaraki, 2, #552 of 1541 🔗

This is what ‘they’ are relying on, that eventually people will have to give in and wear a mask, in order to put food on the table and survive. It is a war of attrition…eventually they wear us down. Next it will be the vaccination – either have it or have no job, just like was announced in Australia today – ‘no jab – no pay’…

95320 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Carrie, #553 of 1541 🔗

Did not see that news story yet, will look into it, thanks.

Yup, I am aware, the Coronavirus Act 2020 and all that comes with it needs repealed. I tried as much as I could in my work and friends to spread the view, my sphere of influence is small, but have lost the battle, shame ‘they’ seems to be most people. The next will be after I start my own business and someone calls me up over how I run it, the war is not over.

95323 ▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to ikaraki, #554 of 1541 🔗

Didn’t even see the law, in 2015.

95520 ▶▶ annie, replying to ikaraki, #555 of 1541 🔗

You’ll do wonderfully with your new machine I’m sure! Go it! Good for you!

95138 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #556 of 1541 🔗

A truly shocking article in the express yesterday – SNP Government instructed the Scottish tourist cabal not to attract English tourists.


Pointing this out as Covid has been used as a paltry political opportunity by Sturgeon to hit out at the English nation, and seems not to have an indifferent regard for Welsh or Northern Irish. It is disgusting and many, many here think so too.

Boycott Sturgeon’s Scotland. – the Salmond inquiry looks like it will do a good bit of damage to the cult. There is a split already with Joanna Cherry being kept out of her favoured role. SNP is turning upon itself – as you do mid black death, never mind the people.

95148 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 6, #557 of 1541 🔗

A week in Wales is sounding very tempting. Was hoping to return to NW Scotland, but maybe the Bank of England pound is not wanted by the Scottish Government.

95163 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #558 of 1541 🔗

Wales is fantastic. So is the NW, good luck to you whichever you do. You’ll find respect and decency up there in Locharber – Sutherland, it’s a long way from Holyrood.
The tattie bogle was going to replace the filthy pound at one stage not sure where the fantasy is now – it is tiresome to keep track of the latest demands. I am ready to dance up and down on graves as required that’s all I know.

95198 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #559 of 1541 🔗

Yep, it’s not too bad here. Plenty of people coming her on holiday at the moment. No masks in shops. First minister said recently ‘nothing wrong with lots of people on the beaches.’ Bit drizzly here but we have castles and wilderness which look atmospheric in the rain, and the pubs are open again to help you dry out. Also noticed an article today saying bus drivers in cardiff told not to challenge unmasked passengers. Tourism here doing great at the moment I think.

95253 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #560 of 1541 🔗

Hi Mr Dee, would you please give me a link re: bus drivers in Cardiff told not to challenge unmasked passengers – I put in a major complaint (still ongoing) against a bus company in Cardiff – NOT Cardiff Bus – who have been great (for unlawfully challenging) me for not wearing a mask – reported this to the police also – police were very supportive.

95290 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #561 of 1541 🔗

Found it – Wales Online….the piece was the usual nonsense bollocks, but the headline is great “Cardiff bus drivers told not to challenge passengers who don’t wear face masks”

95353 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Kath Andrews, #562 of 1541 🔗

Good Job there soldier!

95519 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #563 of 1541 🔗

Here in Pembs, the nappy notice on our bus stop says that ‘out of consideration for other passengers, you are asked to wear a face covering’. Not exactly draconian.

95208 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, #564 of 1541 🔗

..to helpfully add Scotland entered recession officially today.

95527 ▶▶ Will, replying to Basics, 1, #565 of 1541 🔗

I hope you are right.

95536 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Will, #566 of 1541 🔗

Keep an eye on the inquiry. It may be survivable by niknak because tge comittee is a SNP activist – chosen goon. But there’s a direct fracture between Salmond and Sturgeon followers. SNP supporters are sick of trans, woke, hate bill, etc.angendas – they’ve realised it’s a weird ideology they are being asked to believe. It is happening in the more thoughtful support. Not at the truely intellectual level because the SNP does not possess that. Also keep a check on haggard appearance sturgeon seems to be having personal difficulties sleeping.

95141 Ovis, replying to Ovis, 7, #567 of 1541 🔗

What is going on? Some answers:

On yesterday’s entry I posted my take on how and why our leaders have brought us to this point, and a number of people were kind enough to comment and raise some challenging questions. Here are my attempts to answer.

1) Edward rightly pointed out that it is pretty naff (my words, not his) to offer a national petty political explanation for what is patently a global phenomenon. He asked what I thought explained the phenomenon beyond the UK. I think there may be no single explanation, except that in every case it is driven by the most vacuous and unprincipled tactical politics. In America, for example, Covid like BLM has become a form of voter intimidation on behalf of the Democrats. That is not to dismiss the possibility of some deeper conspiracy but, as I do not have any information about such I could not discern between clay and the proverbial in that field. All I suggest is that it is possible to explain the phenomenon in terms of national politics, albeit that political elites and situations undoubtedly interact.
2) I also read that Macron had threatened Bojo. But lockdown kills 200, 000, tanks the whole economy and wrecks the basis of our social contract. What was the threat? Nuclear war? Don’t we have a deterrent, at that rate?
3) I certainly do not pity the poor Tories or see them as victims of Labour, the media etc. I think a vote for them at any time in the future from this point is an act of voluntary complicity.
4) Wendy asked why the Tories would alienate their own supporters in this way. To that I think the answer is simple. We have nowhere else to go. They can ape Labour for free; anyone who dislikes it will still have to reward the Tories, in effect, with their votes. It’s genius. The smart money would bet on Toby himself playing Judas goat and leading us back into the fold at election time. That said, the smart money can be wrong.
5) Miriam, I did find the article interesting even though, as you correctly divined, I am a right-bleating sheep. The implication that Corbyn was a real alternative is questionable though, given that many Tory voters well in advance of lockdown felt they had voted Conservative and got Corbyn. That in itself smells bad, without any recourse to the lizard people. It is curious that non-bullshitters across the political spectrum feel homeless, and willing within limits to set up home with each other.

95169 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Ovis, 2, #568 of 1541 🔗

Wendy asked why the Tories would alienate their own supporters in this way. To that I think the answer is simple. We have nowhere else to go. They can ape Labour for free; anyone who dislikes it will still have to reward the Tories, in effect, with their votes. It’s genius. The smart money would bet on Toby himself playing Judas goat and leading us back into the fold at election time. That said, the smart money can be wrong .”

Can’t guess where Toby might go, obviously, but it is certainly the case that the “Conservative” Party is run by Blairites who assume that conservative voters have nowhere else to go and that they therefore are mostly safe to continue the politically correct, collectivist NHS-worshipping leftward drift that has served them well for so long.

They are vulnerable to a challenge from the right, as brexit single issue parties showed in the past couple of elections, which is why in the end they caved on that issue (though there were tactical issues there as well, such as the blundering Cameron’s mammoth, hubristic blunder in calling a referendum because he could not imagine actually losing it)..

The solution can only be to set up a new more genuinely conservative party to replace them.

Trad leftists face the same issue with the Blairites who have taken over their own party. They thought they could retake their party, but the Blairites were not purged and simply sabotaged it from within, in collaboration with the Blairites embedded throughout our establishment after 23 years of unbroken Blairite rule.

There is a tactical parallel between the situations on each side, though it isn’t simplistically symmetrical, because there can be no real dispute that this country has been shifted dramatically to the left over the course of the past century or so.

I feel a single new party will not work for everyone, because contrary to the oft-stated mantra here, left and right are not meaningless, they do have real force, and in the end people from each side will not be able to work together for long.

At the moment, I’m mostly just waiting for the new party/parties to manifest. The BBC must be dismantled as well.

95175 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #569 of 1541 🔗

“Cameron’s mammoth, hubristic blunder in calling a referendum because he could not imagine actually losing it“
Minor point, but you have the sequence slightly wrong. Cameron called the referendum because his manifesto said he would. He included it in the manifesto because he could not imagine actually winning a general election and assumed he would have to drop the referendum as part of a new coalition agreement with the Lib Dems.

95274 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 2, #570 of 1541 🔗

Fair point. I recall considerable debate about motivations at the time. Either way, the central point stands – Cameron being one of the toweringly incompetent PMs of modern times, now obviously totally outclassed in that regard by Johnson of course.

95277 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #571 of 1541 🔗

Yes. Thought his record would stand a bit longer actually. Live and learn.

95329 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, #572 of 1541 🔗

May took over him,Johnson has done them both,Blair in his sights and he hasn’t had a year yet

95358 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #573 of 1541 🔗

Can’t say May really impinged much on the radar in any sense. Blair wasn’t incompetent. Evil and personally morally corrupt, but that’s a different matter.

95371 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mark, 1, #574 of 1541 🔗

Whatever you made of Thatcher (I am not a fan), she definitely had gravitas, purpose and vision. In other words, genuine leadership qualities. The Tories never recovered from ditching her.

All the incumbents since then have been markedly inferior, and in Johnson we have reached the absolute nadir.

95407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, #575 of 1541 🔗

The Nadir of Inferiority. What an epithet!

95384 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #576 of 1541 🔗

May wasn’t incompetent. She was uncharismatic and didn’t really believe in the job she’d been given. Under other circumstances she would have been roughly fine. Pointless, not incompetent. Incompetence is also not something you could accuse Blair of. I have a long list of things you could accuse Blair of, but that’s not on it.

95638 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, #577 of 1541 🔗

It wasn’t incompetence I was referring to.It was the unfitness for the post of Prime Minister and the damage they wrought.
We have been badly governed for over a hundred years by the way, it just seems to have got worse in the last 20.

95212 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Mark, 2, #578 of 1541 🔗

I think you are right. They are vulnerable to challenge from the right, if such a thing can be got off the ground without immediately being hijacked or destroyed by the meedja.

But UKIP c2011-2016 was interesting. It brought lefties and righties together on the basis of supporting democracy, and enabled really productive conversations with each other rather than past each other. It left me with the sense that we have rather a lot in common. I think there is some mileage in us not mindlessly slaying each other. (I know you were not proposing that ).

95283 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ovis, #579 of 1541 🔗

Yes, UKIP was able to do that because the single issue united both sides, a bit like fighting the coronapanic does here, but that is unlikely to be the case for a future party. Vague notions of restoring liberty won’t last long in the heat of real politics.

95170 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ovis, 1, #580 of 1541 🔗

Personally, I think you’ve more-or-less nailed it. Read the blog post though (I think Toby linked it yesterday, but someone has linked again below) on the role of the media in constraining the government on this. I would imagine it applies in spades around the world – and having watched the Spanish doctor link, it looks like it almost certainly applies to Spain.

95173 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Ovis, 1, #581 of 1541 🔗

Thanks for the name check and responding to my point. Maybe what we are seeing is different “flavours” of the same phenomena across different nations, with national politics having an effect but not the sole consideration. In the USA the presidential election even in normal times overshadows things for at least a year before it takes place.

95190 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Edward, #582 of 1541 🔗

Not at all. Thankyou. Same question to you though. Do you think there is a single uber-explanation? If so, what is it and how does it work?

95246 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ovis, #583 of 1541 🔗

An over-arching and grand alternative explanation is relatively straightforward to construct, and virtually any action or event can be easily woven into its fabric with little or no modification. I have followed many practitioners of this work for years, and will continue to do so with great interest, but not to the exclusion of all other possibilities.

Something extraordinary is clearly happening in our society. The sum total of our individual actions will produce a collective result, and in our case too many individuals over generations have shunned principles that should guide us for wealth, power, comfort, expediency and so on.

All civilisations eventually suffer this fate and collapse, so I propose this is what we are witnessing. Ours seems infinitely more complex, and in need of Byzantine explanations, by virtue of mass electronic and digital media. Otherwise this is nothing new.

95260 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard O, 1, #584 of 1541 🔗

The appeal of the conspiracy theory (and I’m not using that phrase to taunt or upset anyone, just as a convenient shorthand that everyone understands) is that it makes sense out of unconnected events that don’t seem to make sense. We like things to make sense. And the amount of information available to us nowadays makes it very easy to tie facts together. So yes, you’re right.

And you’re definitely right that this is a staggering crisis for “western civilization”. I would prefer to believe that it’s not collapsing, but we’re certainly doing our best to make sure it does.

95289 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to matt, 1, #585 of 1541 🔗

Our requirement to make sense of the world with a coherent narrative has existed ever since we first gathered around fires in prehistory. You could argue that this is what defines us as human beings. All belief systems, from the first cave paintings to science today, are ultimately founded on this need. Bloody fascinating stuff when you take a step back from the mayhem.

95299 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, #586 of 1541 🔗

anyone who dislikes it will still have to reward the Tories, in effect, with their votes.’ – you’re presuming we will be allowed to vote again – as things stand, I am beginning to doubt there will ever be another election ‘allowed’…

95336 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, #587 of 1541 🔗

By then we should be on our 5th or 6th wave.Nice excuse to suspend a general election

95337 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #588 of 1541 🔗


95375 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #589 of 1541 🔗

There’s a comedy sketch in there somewhere. Will it be Covid-19 Wave 6 or Covid-24 Wave 2?

95324 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Ovis, 2, #590 of 1541 🔗

I’m not sure it will work next time. The only reason people like me voted Tory last time was because the Brexit Party wasn’t running in my constituency.
I won’t be voting LibLabConGreen again. Either back to a small party like UKIP, or a spoiled ballot paper.

95498 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ovis, #591 of 1541 🔗

Does Macron have some dirt on Boris? Eh?

95145 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #592 of 1541 🔗
95152 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #593 of 1541 🔗


95182 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #594 of 1541 🔗

The mind boggles as to what they meant by that!!! 🤷

95271 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to arfurmo, 4, #596 of 1541 🔗

Looks like it will be spoiled by that person who didn’t feel “safe”

He should have just stayed at home then.

95229 ▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #597 of 1541 🔗

You have to keep in mind that that building also houses the centre of lockdown zealotry, The Guardian…

95261 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Toby Pierides, #598 of 1541 🔗

That did cross my mind……

95259 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #599 of 1541 🔗

Will this madness ever end? It seem like the dream ticket for overzealous H&S types.

For years we have tried cram more & more people into buses, trains, planes, bars, restaurants, nightclubs & shops.

All of a sudden we do not need to do this we can space people so far apart that we cannot enjoy normal human interaction.

95268 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #600 of 1541 🔗

Exactly. And they keep banging on and on about making art and culture accessible for all hence the cheap tickets (that cost far less than to go to a cinema) and now with antisocial distancing, the tickets will be so expensive that no bugger would be able to afford them.

They cynic in me would say that’s what they want – keep the riff-raff out by spacing people so far apart that the audience will be forced to shell out more money, all in the name of “safety”

95150 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #601 of 1541 🔗

Weekly Aldi trip. Busier than normal for 8pm-ish on a damp Wednesday. I’d say about a third of customers were unmuzzled – usually it’s only me. No frantic checkout spraying either!

At the meat section, no anti-social distancing was observed between me and a guy who was wearing his face nappy under his chin while we were both rummaged through the same bit. Just normal polite behaviour.

Before Aldi, I’d dropped off a return parcel at my local post office – yes we have one of those precious things and it’s open till 10pm every night because most of the shop is a grocers. It was busy and only a couple of customers were masked – two older white people. All the S.Asians were unmuzzled, plus me and a young white woman.

Interaction with both the postmaster and the Aldi checkout girl was smiley and perfectly normal.

Yesterday, I went to the park. It was busy and, as usual, there wasn’t a muzzle in sight.

95188 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #602 of 1541 🔗

I wish I could say the same about my local Aldi in Silsden. I went in on Friday and I was the only one bare faced (I prefer to say normal)! It was busy.

95243 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #603 of 1541 🔗

This has been noted by others – The (commie) BBC reported that Handjob said UK ‘not considering’ compulsory face masks in workplaces ….which means it’s likely to happen (I will never wear one though, regardless) – just wanted to say that it’s accounts of normality like this that I find so helpful, thank you.

95245 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Kath Andrews, 6, #604 of 1541 🔗

To put my comment in context, bad day, face masks in work really bloody worries me 🙁
Not that I will EVER wear one.

95411 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to swedenborg, 1, #606 of 1541 🔗

It’s the cat’s meow!

95161 Jane, replying to Jane, 11, #607 of 1541 🔗

Re “had for making policy decisions around coronavirus because it helped it understand how the disease was spreading.”

Positive test results do NOT mean “the disease is spreading.” Can’t these idiots get it into their tiny heads that SARS-CoV-2 is not the disease covid-19?.

The virus is not the disease.
The virus is not the disease.
The virus is not the disease.

Write it down one hundred times before you leave this classroom. Oh, nobody in the classroom . . .

Dammit, the higher the number of positive tests, the BETTER. Why doesn’t someone call these idiots on this? We are trying to achieve herd immunity, right? It is the same in the USA. “Spike of positives” is pretext to go into stricter lockdown and jack up the masking, to . . . what? What is left? Going to the loo with nappy on? Having sex with nappy on? Oh, already went there. Pretty soon everyone will have to wear full latex in order to do anything at all.

95171 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jane, 1, #608 of 1541 🔗

I’m sure some of our esteemed MPs would relish mandatory latex.

95177 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Richard O, 1, #609 of 1541 🔗

They invented it

95214 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Richard O, 1, #610 of 1541 🔗

Bet they would, dirty buggers!

95414 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, 2, #611 of 1541 🔗

A spate of new fetish clubs opening up could become a boost for the economy.

95200 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jane, 2, #612 of 1541 🔗

That was one of the eye openers for me around April time. The way it was being reported I just assumed CV-19 was like a common name for the disease, like flowers and their Latin names. Even that small clarification took me to some places that revealed just how much of a mess the response to this has been.

People don’t go further than headlines for the main unfortunately. I tried to share Carl Henegens article on false positives on a “progressive” local polticial forum where the opening post was a BBC item on measures being reintroduced here in Northern Ireland tomorrow. We have 2 people in hospital with CV-19, none in ICU.

The posts got immediately removed. This is what we are dealing with. I’ve been a member of the forum for years and it’s the first time I’ve seen that. This is what we are dealing with.

95334 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jane, 1, #613 of 1541 🔗

Now your talkin

95174 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 6, #614 of 1541 🔗

Incidentally, one of the researchers’ findings, duplicated numerous times in other studies, is that the secondary attack rate was highest in household settings. Does this mean that locking people down in their homes, making transmission within households much more likely, may not have been such a good idea? Who would’ve thunk it!

Matt Hancock apparently didn’t thunk it.

95181 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to richard riewer, 7, #615 of 1541 🔗

At the start of all this people coming into hospitals became infected, they got tested and the numbers just kept adding up.

Then as more people came into hospitals, they too became infected, they were also tested and the numbers kept adding up.

The most ill people were put on ventilators that ended up killing them faster.

As people came to hospital, they got infected, became ill and died on ventilators.

And the numbers kept adding up…

95207 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to richard riewer, 3, #616 of 1541 🔗

He doesn’t seem to be able to think at all.

95517 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 1, #617 of 1541 🔗

Sure,ply explains the situation in e.g. Peru. Crowded apartment blocks, poor ventilation, large extended families locked in together…

95196 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #618 of 1541 🔗

One for the resident LS Risk Assessment Spotters Club.

“East Lothian headteacher ‘sorry’ for forcing pupils to eat lunch in the rain
Pupils at the school were forced to stay outside in ‘torrential’ rain due to social distancing rules”


The shameless head teacher even uses those favourite primary school excuses, “everyone else was doing it” and “we just got carried away”. Cruel, thoughtless, idiotic, brain dead educator.

95205 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 7, #619 of 1541 🔗

I always thought Family Fortunes was representative of the general level of intelligence in regular people. I’m beginning to think they were actually the brighter people selected for TV.

95475 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #620 of 1541 🔗

Lol. But then Guardian readers are supposed to be better educated than the average citizen and they are way more in favour of disease-causing masks and death-inducing lockdowns!

95343 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, 7, #621 of 1541 🔗

These are the same See You Next Tuesdays who wouldn’t protect the kids if the enemy soldiers came to shoot them all. They’d run for the hills. I despise them.

95357 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Basics, 6, #622 of 1541 🔗

Yes, yes it was very wet. All over the central belt, east to west, drove through it all.

Absolute scum.

95217 LockdownIsTheDisinformation, 1, #623 of 1541 🔗

Bit of a sinister finding here:
Avaaz, that company where the girlfriend ofDr Lockdown/ Prof Pantsdown works is now filing complainnts to faecesbook about how, among the usual crap the sucker-borg’s platform shows, it has been showing medical quackery. No doubt there is plenty of quackery advertised on the book of faeces, but given the involvement of that “global activist org” in reporting this I fear it is trying to make us lockdown sceptics look like disinformation too. The lockdown abuse of our rights looks more and more conspiratorial each passing day.

95218 IMoz, replying to IMoz, #624 of 1541 🔗

Oh NO!

Children are at risk for severe COVID-19. Public health authorities and clinicians should continue to track pediatric SARS-CoV-2 infections. Reinforcement of prevention efforts is essential in congregate settings that serve children, including childcare centers and schools.

buried in the text:-

Among 222 (38.5%) of 576 children with information on underlying medical conditions, 94 (42.3%) had one or more underlying conditions (Table). The most prevalent conditions included obesity (37.8%), chronic lung disease (18.0%), and prematurity (gestational age <37 weeks at birth, collected only for children aged <2 years) (15.4%)

The Table is quite interesting as well.

CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports (14th Aug 2020)

95224 ▶▶ matt, replying to IMoz, 3, #625 of 1541 🔗


Why are effectively not children dying or ending up in hospital in the US OR ANYWHERE ELSE?

95228 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to matt, 2, #626 of 1541 🔗

Precisely, I think the CDC is stretching facts… just a bit…

95221 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 4, #627 of 1541 🔗

In these times, serious questions need to be asked about “Science” and “Scientists” as it seems that for the majority of people just hearing these two words is enough to accept everything said in their names as 100% gospel. (This belief in “Science” as the sole and most authentic source of truth is called “Scientism”).

Joe Rappoport as usual does ask these questions:

“In the realm of so-called science, there is a veritable army of self-styled experts in charge, who say, “Of course we know what we’re doing when we discover a new virus.” And that, they think, is enough.
It isn’t.
It especially isn’t, when the issue is a claim of a global viral pandemic; and repressive containment measures are being imposed, which are destroying countless jobs and businesses and lives. All because of a story about a new virus.
We’ve heard the phrase, “the science is settled.” But settled for whom? Time and again, it turns out the purveyors of pseudoscience have a political or commercial agenda that is driving their assertions. They posture, they scoff at critics. They refuse to step forward and engage in honest and prolonged debate. They censor counter-arguments.”

Full article definitely worth reading:


95526 ▶▶ Hugh_Manity, replying to Humanity First, 3, #628 of 1541 🔗

Whenever the phrase  “the science is settled” is used, you can bet your bottom dollar there is a political agenda at work. The phrase is the exact opposite of what science actually represents.

95603 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Hugh_Manity, 4, #629 of 1541 🔗

There used to be a classic phrase used on Horizon programmes: ‘Scientists used to think …….. but now we know’. Always made me annoyed because the science is never settled. I am a scientist by the way.

95222 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 7, #630 of 1541 🔗

Why weren’t we wearing masks at the start of the crisis? ‘ – And here’s Ross Clark in the Spectator posing a question to which he knows the answer

Not a very good article, though. He cherry-picks just a few countries in order to suggest that early mask adoption would have been advisable, and he very much implies that compulsory masking is a good idea. If you’re going to do the comparison game, why not include all places that either did or did not mask? When broaden your search, he effect of masks diminishes almost entirely. Even if you can show a modest improvement in outcomes, I don’t think it comes anywhere close to justifying compulsory masking, and that is something I’d like to see more widely discussed.

95225 ▶▶ matt, replying to RyanM, 9, #631 of 1541 🔗

Yes – I think Toby is being too kind to a colleague linking this one n

95351 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 3, #632 of 1541 🔗


95230 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to RyanM, 14, #633 of 1541 🔗

The whole things is premised on the nonsense idea that if it saves one life, it is without question worth it.

As you say, even if you could guarantee me that the entire population being forced to wear masks could ‘save’ 100 lives (how anyone could prove that is unknown) I’d still not agree that compulsory masking is desirable or acceptable. Regardless of numerous individuals not finding them an imposition, they without question have negative impacts beyond just ‘reduces my oxygen’ in the wider context of society & the environment etc that are just never talked about or considered, for some reason.

95279 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Mark II, 8, #634 of 1541 🔗

Here is a thought experiment for your mask-wearing friends. Assume that masks work. Now, we also know that if masks do work, they work better on clean faces. So, we’ve established that the slight increase in protection that masks offer (if they work) is worth government edict and criminal offenses for non-compliance. By that logic, so does virtually any marginal increase in protection. So, do you support compulsory shaving? A ban on beards?

I’ve gotten 2 responses to this. 1) no response. Ignore the question. 2) the lie: “Of course I would support that if it means we could open up” (to which I replied: “why haven’t you shaved your beard, then?”)

People say that mandated masks is no different from mandated pants… ok, let’s accept that ridiculous comparison. What is the limiting principle? Where do we stop?

95297 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to RyanM, 8, #635 of 1541 🔗

Haha mandated pants and other terrible attempts to compare other things with masks.

My favourite being: You wear a seat belt don’t you? Er yes, when I’m driving a car… not when I’m just walking around minding my own business (which is the same as walking around whilst uninfected with a mask on). How that one took off is beyond me, deliberate stupidity I can only assume.

95314 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Mark II, 8, #636 of 1541 🔗

I’ve heard that one a lot. I just can’t get through to some people that I know, what my objection to wearing a mask is.

Its not just the fact that they are ineffective, its the compulsion and the shaming aspect. Also, there is absolutely something degrading about covering ones mouth.

I don’t know if you’ve watched the Handmaid’s Tale (spoiler alert) but in series 3 the heroine goes to another city where the handmaids not only wear the sort of nun’s habit but a mouth covering too. Underneath the gag their mouths were stapled with metal rings – it was horrific.

The point is the women were to be silenced.

95335 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Laura Suckling, 10, #637 of 1541 🔗

I think masks are my biggest bugbear in all this. They are degrading and humiliating and a symbol of compliance. Plus, you cannot see how someone is reacting to you. I made a joke to the GM of my local hotel the other night because I’d paid my bill (to him) but the next day the staff wanted to charge me again as there was no record of me paying. I had the receipt so there was no issue and the staff just nodded knowingly that xxxx had done it again, he doesn’t get the till, he’s the GM. When I came to pay him the for that session I made a gentle joke about not charging me twice again and because of his mask I had no idea whether he was offended, amused or indifferent. I had to ask: fortunately he was amused but ffs how are we supposed to read nuance if we can’t see people’s faces?

95340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Bella, 1, #638 of 1541 🔗


95360 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bella, 5, #639 of 1541 🔗

A friend of mine has Aspergers and already struggles to communicate with people when their faces are uncovered, with faces covered it is a problem, as you describe.

Having to ask what someone what their reaction is not easy or comfortable.

95368 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #640 of 1541 🔗

Newborns seeing their mum in a masks on the regular as well, that must have an impact on their development as its all about facial communication. You only get one shot at that during that time in their life

95482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Bella, 3, #641 of 1541 🔗

Aye Bella, It’s like I’m surrounded by mannequins. I rely on fine observation and reading people’s body language and all that is just POOF! gone when I look upon a masked human being. Eyes without a face, such a sad state of affairs.

95408 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark II, 6, #642 of 1541 🔗

My go to response to the seat belt analogy these days is this:

If they told you seatbelts are only mandatory in certain parts of town or on certain roads would you question if they were really necessary in the first place?

96043 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, #643 of 1541 🔗

From that idiot who suddenly popped up from the Royal Society when face nappies were first threatened.

95300 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RyanM, 8, #644 of 1541 🔗

Do they mandate pants?

There are laws that oblige you to cover your private parts in public, but they don’t say how you should do it. I never thought the face would ever be included on the list of “naughty bits”.

I’ve never actually been able to have a proper debate about masks in person with anybody, because everyone I’ve spoken to immediately agrees that it’s stupid.

And then the next day, they put a mask on to go into Sainsbury’s.

The point, anyway, has nothing to do with convenience and nothing to do with equivalence to any other item of clothing. The point is – the government does not tell me what to wear (or what not to wear). And if the government wants to tell me what to wear, it needs as a minimum to be able to show some pretty irrefutable evidence that what they’re requiring is vital. And I still wouldn’t like it.

95364 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RyanM, #645 of 1541 🔗

A friend told me her paramedic colleague has been ordered to shave his beard so that the masks they have supplied will fit. The beard prevents a snug fit.

He’s digging in his heels apparently and refused.

95373 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RyanM, 9, #646 of 1541 🔗

Exactly. Mandatory masks takes us into a whole new territory – Tyrannyland. Thousands of people die early deaths from drug and alcohol abuse. Why not have compulsory weekly blood tests if it “saves lives”? There is no logical objection if you accept compulsory mask wearing.

95376 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to OKUK, 4, #647 of 1541 🔗

Obesity causes high blood pressure, diabetes, joint problems etc. Why not a compulsory weekly weigh in, or fridge check?

95388 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #648 of 1541 🔗

Or a mandatory time locked mask for fatties?

95319 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mark II, 5, #649 of 1541 🔗

This business of “if it saves one life” is absolute bunkum. The repost is to state that reducing the speed limit in built-up areas to 15 mph would obviously save a significant number of lives, but we don’t do that – why not?

95322 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tenchy, 5, #650 of 1541 🔗

Not driving at all would save lives. Anyone proposed that?

95333 ▶▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Bella, 3, #651 of 1541 🔗

Exactly! But it is also clear that the very rushed introduction of driverless cars will have more “safety” as one of its biggest justifications.

Removing humans from many spheres of (previously human) activities is clearly on the “agenda”….according to some (i..e multizillionaires and their controlled corporations) humans are bad for the planet…

95569 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tenchy, #652 of 1541 🔗

Indeed. An abomination that has blighted our lives and deserves to be consigned to the dustbin of history if humanity is to survive.

95362 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark II, 4, #653 of 1541 🔗

Exactly. We could save thousands of lives by requiring state funded trained driving advisors to accompany each of us when we drive our cars. Would that be justified? Of course not but it would probably be cheaper than wrecking your country’s economy to “vanquish the virus” and probably on a par with mandatory masks in terms of destroying our civil liberties.

95275 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to RyanM, 2, #654 of 1541 🔗

I agree it was disappointing. Ross has had a good war overall but this was not his best outing by a long shot.

95284 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 9, #655 of 1541 🔗

It is the classic conservative cop-out by bargaining for your own freedoms that never should have been taken to begin with. Just let me out and I’ll put on the mask!

At the risk of hyperbole, these seem like the sorts of bargains that history has taught us to avoid at all costs.

95350 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to RyanM, #656 of 1541 🔗

Clark sounds like a complete twat. If he’s not going to use rational argument, I don’t see why I should!

95356 ▶▶ freedom_not_fauci, replying to RyanM, #657 of 1541 🔗

I’d say that given that the article bashes the lockdown concept as stupid it is still good. masks might not be much to our liking, and they don’t plausibly seem that effective, but if the coronanist panicking morons can be made to think a mask is the magic cure rather than a lockdown then that must be progress.

95386 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to RyanM, 2, #658 of 1541 🔗

I get the Spectator regularly and read mostly of it avidly. I always skip Ross Clark. Presumably I discovered his twattishness long before Covid was more than s twinkle in Bill Gates’ eye.

96041 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RyanM, #659 of 1541 🔗

Yes, I thought that was a dodgy article for Toby to have cited.

95250 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #660 of 1541 🔗

The properly useless Devi Sridhar strikes again. Can she do anything but up-chuck stupidity? Remember Scotland cunning Covid Zero plan – well architect in chief of the plan, the dimly witted Devi only comes out with the truth of the matter, and the immediately follows through by telling us it’s about ‘reducing risk of cases’. Okay, gotcha now what do you mean?

To emphasis: Devi says – “There will never be no risk- it’s about reducing risk of cases emerging in school.”

There will NEVER be NO RISK. So whos for a pointless vaccine then?

Devi Sridhar
Parents keep asking me about schools: look at what’s happening where you live, local community transmission, local new daily cases & testing positivity. Based on that, make an informed judgement. There will never be no risk- it’s about reducing risk of cases emerging in school


Testing positivity = professor speak for ‘positive tests’. Was it Slow black, Sloe black fishing boat bobbing sea Dylan who suggested its a fool who adds words where less will do?

Make an informed judgrment yet we are told not to make informed judgements about so much how could anyone guess on this point we are to make an informed judgement. If we judge the school isn’t safe do we keep our children away? No, we are not allowed to do that by law. So in actual fact Devi is producing brain scramble risable junk as public health messaging..

She does not have to cognitive capacity to focus upon public messaging – her brain is too full of itself. Truly immature messaging – perhaps thats why the cult tend to like her for now. It will be good to see her suffer when the ego stops being fed.

95330 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 4, #661 of 1541 🔗

This is so disingenuous it makes me want to vomit. The Scottish administration and the government in general have gone out of their way to remove and distort the ability of the populace to assess risk for themselves and now she’s asking them to do just that?

95379 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, 1, #662 of 1541 🔗

“She does not have to cognitive capacity to focus upon public messaging – her brain is too full of itself. Truly immature messaging”.

Amen to that.


95251 Chris Bullick, 5, #663 of 1541 🔗

Can anyone tell me what the testing endgame is? The ultimate official testing wet dream appears to be to test everyone every day. But why? The nearest thing I’ve heard as an explanation is from the deranged Hancock who said that it was so we can “introduce the right measures”. Like what? Can anyone think of one measure that our cowardly government has introduced that has had a clear objective or benefit (to be kind, preventing the NHS being overwhelmed might have been one – but we know now it wouldn’t have happened anyway).

As with everything that has occurred since the desperate hunt for ‘cases’ is designed to sustain the sense of fear in the public and maintain the impression that the government is ‘controlling’ something.

To me the virus is like a Tsunami. You can try to hold it back, but it will surge through every country with no respect for boundaries. It’s going to come and it’s going to go. So the best thing is to manage its passage. Floridian Keys dwellers have learnt that the best defence against hurricane-driven tides is to build your house on stilts. The water will come and it will go. At about the time of UK lockdown wise old scientists like Michael Levitt, Professor of Structural Biology at Stanford were saying: “Protect the vulnerable but encourage the spread of the virus by children, let it run its course throughout the population”. The best policy must be to manage the passage of the virus. Don’t encourage it, but don’t try to completely stop it either.

Perhaps our deluded leaders think that they might just be able to eliminate the virus through all this maniacal testing, tracing and documenting. But as the most ardent proponents of this control-freakery in Victoria state in Australia and New Zealand find, they might destroy freedom, democracy and their economy in their efforts. But they won’t stop the virus.

95254 Paul, replying to Paul, 6, #664 of 1541 🔗

In a village near to me there is an old red telephone box that for years has been used as a small lending library where you can leave and borrow books,not now you can’t,it’s been closed ‘to prevent the spread of covid’,even though it remained open over the past few months.

95256 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Paul, 3, #665 of 1541 🔗

Covid Madness

95469 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Paul, 3, #666 of 1541 🔗

Local government Officers trying to be important.

95265 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #667 of 1541 🔗

As Toby is sharing his smoked salmon supplier I would like to recommend Bradley’s Fish and Kittows Quality Meats to those who are choosing to shop on line instead of at the supermarket.

95571 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #668 of 1541 🔗

Would recommend this butcher as well for those boycotting physical shops:


Currently has loads of good offers.

95270 Aremen, 3, #669 of 1541 🔗

Clever beggar, the Covid. We go for a walk regularly in a local village here in the south west. One pub has only had its garden open since the great re-opening. But tonight, it’s persisting down, so customers can go inside. The Covid will not strike if it’s raining, so the customers are safe.

95272 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 15, #670 of 1541 🔗

I went to Sainsbury’s today and saw the biggest number of non masked people. A lady in her late 30s with kids in tow who had a lanyard and with whom I exchanged a conspiratorial smile, a girl in her 20s shopping with a masked friend and a grungy looking teenage girl of about 18. Also a lot of Sainsbury’s middle aged and older women workers were also maskless. I was surprised as women are often the most zealous (I’m a woman btw). Clearly mask novelty is wearing thin in Derbyshire.

In another piece of good news, I’m happy to see our Pizza Express is one of the few to have survived the cull.

95310 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #671 of 1541 🔗

Ah, another in Derbyshire. We do seem to be a fulcrum of sanity.

95390 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Ovis, 4, #672 of 1541 🔗

I too am in Derbyshire

95418 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 7, #673 of 1541 🔗

There are a lot more women sceptics than I would have expected – they may even be in the majority. It gives me hope!

95488 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #674 of 1541 🔗

Indeed, my wife is a staunch sceptic and just goes about her business unmuzzled without letting the general situation get her down, despite being at risk of redundancy. She doesn’t even talk about ‘lockdown’ etc very much, just ignores it. I admire her for being able to put it to the back of her mind whilst being non-compliant!

I’m annoyed by the situation 24/7, and am in a continual state of stress, despite also ignoring all government diktats. Perhaps the female brain can cope better with this SAGE psy-op!

95577 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #675 of 1541 🔗

Not my female mind, sadly. I am more like you: in a state of constant distress at the loss of my liberty

95760 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Barney McGrew, #676 of 1541 🔗

Is being a Woman Lockdown Skeptic a bit like being a WPC?!

Surely their emotional, irrational brains would be the first to be bamboozled by the Corona Cult…. It’s almost as though there’s not actually such as a thing as a male mind and a female mind….

Mind you, maybe we could recruit some Trans Activists to our side if we told them that in addition to making it less likely you’ll die of covid, being a woman also means you’re more likely to be a skeptic!

96045 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #677 of 1541 🔗

Not sure I follow, but possibly you have assumed something that wasn’t being meant? What I was thinking was that ‘conspiracy theorists’ are usually men – and easy to write off as such in our misandrist culture. In contrast, if women are equally aghast at the world’s reaction to Covid, then at least it makes it a more obviously-respectable point of view that can’t be dismissed as easily. If women are thinking it, too, then maybe I’m not a tinfoil hat-wearing saddo after all.

95579 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #678 of 1541 🔗

Well done!! I wish I can say the same in my neck of the woods but perversely, there has been more unmuzzled people in the underground, at least from my local station.

96036 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #679 of 1541 🔗

Good start!

95318 Bella, replying to Bella, 6, #680 of 1541 🔗

Another useful ally. I think people have mentioned John Ward before (The Slog) but this is the first time I’ve seen his sister site

95341 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bella, 6, #681 of 1541 🔗

I’m a big fan of John Ward. A staunch libertarian and freedom advocate. Always on my weekly checklist.

95346 freedom_not_fauci, 1, #682 of 1541 🔗

Just saw in the telegraph, on the subject of Mandatory Vaccines:

“It would be unenforceable and not appropriate,” said Fauci.

Funny that, he’s against mandating something which might work, vaccines are the only reliable tool aganst viruses, but was happy to mandate an utterly useless and terribly damaging lockdown. Making anything mandatory is bad, but a mandatory prick in the arm (hopefully they’d have the sense to make this a patch not needle vaccine anyway and hence be able to post it to africa without need for a cold chain supply route) is of no significance compared to the crime of making it mandatoryto: stay at home, lose your job or business, lose contact with your friends and family… Fauci is such a hypocrite, if he can recognise that vaccines are better not being mandatory (but definitely a good thing to have avilable free to all who want), why can’t he see that locking everyone down against their consent was wrong?

95354 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #683 of 1541 🔗

There has been some discussion about the possibility that there will be a local lockdown in Oldham even though it is agreed that the death rate is low and there are few if any Covid cases in hospital. So, presumably the whole hoo-haa is based on dodgy pillar 2 test results (so called cases)? Which begs the question who is getting tested and why?
Is there any element of compulsion with people getting tested as part of their work?
Otherwise voluntarily getting tested seems like an invitation to dig your own grave. Wild horses would not drag me anywhere near an NHS test/trace centre.
Why are people getting tested?
I guess if we started a ‘don’t get tested’ campaign it would be ruled out by twitter/facebook etc.

95365 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #684 of 1541 🔗
95382 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #685 of 1541 🔗

It might not have much to do with the numbers but all people die to have more serious hospital treatment, cancer, operations, must have a test 3 days before treatment. These people have no choice. Could they be boosting the false positives. Also care home staff and residents are being compulsorily tested and home carers. Could these be boosting false positives? Perhaps some employers are insisting on tests so these might boost false positives. The more tests the more false positives. I heard people are going door to door in places like Blackburn and Bradford asking people to get a test. Not sure if that is true.

other than that I think people will be getting the message to not volunteer for a test and to be more devious and lie more.

95400 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to wendy, #686 of 1541 🔗

die should read due … sorry too late to edit

95370 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 14, #687 of 1541 🔗

Handy Cock’s Brilliant Solution to Ending the Covid Crisis ???

Dunno why Toby didn’t just have a picture of a syringe and needle !!!

I think that once the Govt gets an extension on the upcoming sunset clause we’re all for it. I think that’s all that’s preventing these jokers from turning the screw right now. They’re just buying time for the kill shot, is full on surveillance state with annual mandatory vaccines.

It’s alright writing puff pieces for the DT but it’s getting us nowhere fast. Giving us 10-20 links of covid sceptical articles for 4 months is all well and good but if there’s no political power to back it up it’s a pointless exercise. Toby obviously has links but I see nothing to suggest he’s on the case and using them.

As much as I like the site, it’s just feeling like Groundhog day each time I visit now, yet more evidence reinforcing what we’ve all known for months. I’ve subbed the site several times in the past but I don’t feel it’s getting us anywhere.

Expect I might need a tin hat for the above but I’m more interested to now if there’s any MP’s or Media Organisations close to breaking ranks? If there’s not we’re all well and truly fucked, sceptical website or not 🙁

95378 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to NonCompliant, 26, #688 of 1541 🔗

I totally agree. But I don’t see any way out of this.

I was in a pub tonight. Not too bad – it could have been a lot worse. But I saw people in masks who didn’t need to be. And I saw one bloke physically leap backwards when he realised there was already someone in the gents’.

I never knew that I was brave or anything like that, but my fear of the ‘virus’ is zero . My contempt for these cu*ts is total.

95385 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #689 of 1541 🔗

To the phantom downmarker: tell us your definition of a “case”, what constitutes a “spike”, and give your estimate for the PCR false positive rate, and we can have a discussion about what that means. We could then move onto the elementary mistakes in Neil Ferguson’s models.

95391 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #690 of 1541 🔗

I see an upmark. Suspect the site is playing up.

95403 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to matt, 1, #691 of 1541 🔗

It was -1 for a while…

95389 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #692 of 1541 🔗

May I ask you have you always had no fear of the virus or did you just become more cynical as more facts emerged? I’ve never been afraid of it for myself just for elderly and vulnerable people.

95401 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Laura Suckling, 8, #693 of 1541 🔗

Your inference is correct. To start with, I was very scared of this new plague – ironic, because no one else seemed to be worried by it in January. But by March, I knew the basics, and I had put it into context: it wasn’t much worse than flu, and in some ways it was better because it didn’t seem to be affecting younger people.

95515 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Laura Suckling, 7, #694 of 1541 🔗

I’m approaching ‘elderly’, but I’ve never feared the virus even for a split second. I didn’t worry about SARS either, or mad cow disease. I know panic-mongering rubbish when I meet it.
Yesterday we watched a Timewatch documentary on the Black Death, which examined the interesting theory that the Death was not bubonic plague but an unknown viral, haemorrhagic disease that eventually just disappeared. In 1346-60 (about) it’s estimated to have killed a third of the world’s population.
And it didn’t just pick on the elderly.
Sense of proportion…

95642 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #695 of 1541 🔗

Same. Utter contempt for the mask wearing idiots.

95381 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to NonCompliant, 8, #696 of 1541 🔗

Agreed. Been thinking similar. I do think it is forming though. At present it feels a bit like howling at the moon, but pressure is building, and when the inevitable happens and large numbers of people start feeling real pain, and start asking the necessary questions, we will have the momentum. Who will form and lead a coherent political movement is not clear as yet, but there are enough smart and politically savvy people on our side to make it happen. Reason always triumphs in the end. It is the human condition.

95395 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to NonCompliant, 13, #697 of 1541 🔗

The vast majority of people I attempt to engage with invariably respond with a combination of the following:

  1. Repeat state and media propaganda scripts ad nauseam, regardless of any facts presented.
  2. Ignore my statements as if I never even spoke or wrote them, like they cannot comprehend the sequence of words.
  3. Never give an inch in defending the scripts in point 1).
  4. Superficially acknowledge my argument, then immediately revert to the scripts in point 1).

Given this level of brainwashing and the resultant intransigence, we are currently fighting a losing battle. How can we possibly effect political change if all the people around us, including people we have known for years, are unchangeable?

95399 ▶▶▶ Klein, replying to Richard O, 8, #698 of 1541 🔗

The economic fallout, and when tough questions start to be asked – I kind of think it will be the start of a wave, then there will be no place to hide.
THe govt won’t admit the mistakes, but they won’t have to. It will be plain to see.
Or it could be wishful thinking. I have had a couple of whiskeys 😀

95402 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Klein, 5, #699 of 1541 🔗

Lockdown Sceptics + Beer = Medicine. Even if nothing ever really gets accomplished by any of us, that is reason enough for me to keep coming back.

95457 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 5, #700 of 1541 🔗

Indeed. It’s nice to know there are other sane people about.

95406 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Klein, 2, #701 of 1541 🔗

The masses won’t blame the government; they’ll turn on the ‘Covidiots’.

95454 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #702 of 1541 🔗


95676 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to OKUK, #703 of 1541 🔗

A ‘covidiot’ fights back!

Man knocked unconscious at London railway station amid row over face masks
William is heard saying “you’re not wearing one either”…
In response, the man turns around and walks away from his pram shouting “don’t f****** start on me” and punches William, knocking him to the floor unconscious.


95409 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Klein, 9, #704 of 1541 🔗

Agreed. It’s still a couple of months to the end of the furlough scheme (though there’s some talk of extending it), but already the job losses are piling up, such as the 7000 at M&S. There will be lots more.

95453 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Edward, 6, #705 of 1541 🔗

Precisely. The UK economy is heavily oriented to services and that is exactly the sector the government are attacking with their “Feel the Fear” policies. We are about to enter an economic death zone. The latest figures on inflation are also v worrying but to be expected – we have money chasing lower output.

95608 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edward, #706 of 1541 🔗

Talking to someone from Rolls Royce yesterday, he was saying they’ve laid off or are in the process of laying off 6,000 staff. Also, I asked if they were back working in the offices, he told me that staff have been told to work from home for the rest of the year.

95644 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Edward, #707 of 1541 🔗

My aunties neighbour lost his job last week.

95415 ▶▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Klein, 3, #708 of 1541 🔗

By the time unemployment hits in a big way we’ll in a full on surveillance state unless the Govt loses the 1st sunset clause vote in September.

95452 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to NonCompliant, 3, #709 of 1541 🔗

Like we’re not already! Lol You think the government aren’t monitoring this site?

95460 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 3, #710 of 1541 🔗

I wonder if 77th Brigade even exists. This might in itself be a propaganda phantom to sow seeds of discord in places like this.

95466 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, #711 of 1541 🔗

I think playing 3D chess is difficult enough as it is without introducing a fourth dimension!

95647 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, #712 of 1541 🔗

They do exist. They are very real.

96005 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard O, #713 of 1541 🔗

Are you suggesting that those awful bigots who post BTL in the Torygraph are real?!

95451 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Klein, 1, #714 of 1541 🔗

I agree Klein – that is exactly how things change. Neville Chamberlain never said “That Adolf pulled the wool over my eyes” but he began rearmament in earnest.

95412 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Richard O, 2, #715 of 1541 🔗

Exactly that mate which is why I’m saying it’s getting us nowhere. Anyone who is reachable is already on the same page. The rest (sheep) will only follow if some notable MP or Media Organization splits from the heard. Without that we’ve all had it. The Govt gets past that 1st sunset clause it’s game over.

95420 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to NonCompliant, 11, #716 of 1541 🔗

The government can do whatever the fuck it wants, we are already in an authoritarian system, and it was game over on 23rd March. This feels like a coordinated global attack on humanity itself, and on an incredibly aggressive timeline like nothing we have ever seen. The odds of overturning it are slim to non-existent. Which is part of the attraction actually. Remember how we Brits used to favour the underdog, even though they invariably got pulverised? Well right now we are an ant trying to defeat the Death Star. Or maybe Keith Deller vs Eric Bristow in 1983.

95447 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to NonCompliant, 2, #717 of 1541 🔗

OK, well no point on continuing to keep posting here then is there- unless you are trying to demoralise people.

95448 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, #718 of 1541 🔗

I was adding to the demoralisation until 20 minutes ago!

95459 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, #719 of 1541 🔗

I haven’t seen any comments from you trashing this site. That’s what so called Noncompliant is doing.

95463 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 1, #720 of 1541 🔗

This site is a lifeline. Let us for a second imagine an LS Post-Covid conference, with Toby Young as the master of ceremonies.

The conference will be held in Nuremberg. Appropriate eyewear will be provided for the accused.

95465 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 3, #721 of 1541 🔗

“Tony Hall, you are accused of leading a criminal propaganda outfit that was used to criminalise law abiding citizens, devastate the economy and shut down children’s education. How do you plead? “

95467 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 3, #722 of 1541 🔗

“On the counts of the indictment, of which you have been convicted, the Tribunal sentences you to death by mask, goggles, gloves and visor.”

96006 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard O, #723 of 1541 🔗

And you’ll have to subsist entirely on food parcels comprised of biscuits, spam and UHT milk.

95417 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 7, #724 of 1541 🔗

And yet, and yet…

The Covid Train must hit the buffers of reality. I think it already has but it’s a slow motion crash.

It took a good 5 years before the British public gave up on interwar Appeasement.

Hoping this won’t take as long, given the full breaking wave of economic disaster is not far off.

95585 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, 2, #725 of 1541 🔗

They will change their tune once they’re directly affected via the following:

  • redundancy then having to go on the dole because they’re not going to find a new job immediately
  • bankruptcy
  • tax raid on pensions and abolition of the triple lock

Those people you described above are in denial not only because they’ve been brainwashed but because this current crisis isn’t really affecting them. Sure its a bit of an inconvenience but its not really a problem because they live in nice areas, have big houses and gardens and have the wealth and means to cushion them from the hard times for now.

95637 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #726 of 1541 🔗

Good point. For such people the quality of their lives might have actually improved in the last 5 months, particularly for senior directors who have got to know their spouse and children for the first time (and have found them to be agreeable).

95396 ▶▶ wendy, replying to NonCompliant, 20, #727 of 1541 🔗

I know it feels like there is not much impact from this site but we are all looking at articles and research we wouldn’t have found on our own and each day I tell someone about some thing, perhaps about Carl Heneghan etc. It must be having a small effect in other ways, support fro each other, sharing links, more people reading and telling others. More confidence to break laws. A sense that we are not on our own. Small things but beginnings of a shift.

95413 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to wendy, #728 of 1541 🔗

Absolutely spot on Wendy.


95423 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to wendy, 10, #729 of 1541 🔗

Double tick. We sceptics are not just contrarians. We examine the evidence. If someone shows me the evidence I am wrong, I change my mind. That’s how we learn.

The great thing about scepticism is that we are open to the evidence. The more we share, the more we learn, the stronger the case.

95430 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to WhyNow, 10, #730 of 1541 🔗

Exactly… back in January I was quite open in considering what it was we were facing. As a matter of principle I didn’t trust anything the the Chinese Government were telling us but I was prepared at that point to accept we might be facing a novel pathogen on a Spanish Flu scale – a devastating virus that might cut s swathe through healthy people.

As the crisis unfolded I became more and more sceptical as I read up on coronaviruses and pandemics while tracking what was happening in real time. Most sceptics here ignore the narratives and follow the evidence.

95650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to OKUK, 1, #731 of 1541 🔗

I was prepared to give the official narrative that covid was dangerous for about two weeks back in February. It became clear that is wasn’t that dangerous to most people. I was also aware of “THE AGENDA”. I was calling out the corona hoax back then.

95730 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to OKUK, #732 of 1541 🔗

well said

Most sceptics here ignore the narratives and follow the evidence.

95425 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to wendy, 2, #733 of 1541 🔗

Exactly Wendy – big or small, the effect is positive. Why gripe about that unless you are actually trying to undermine lockdown scepticism?

95416 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to NonCompliant, 3, #734 of 1541 🔗

Farage started his political career in 1992 after the Maastricht Treaty was signed. It took him 22 years until the European Elections of 2014 to have any significant impact on the political landscape, and he started out with a base support of millions of naturally Eurosceptic British citizens.

We are starting from nothing, with a minuscule fraction of 1% of the population, and are only 5 months in.

95438 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 2, #735 of 1541 🔗

As I have suggested here many times we need a new political party that will represent the interests of UK citizens as they understand them. A key priority of such a party would be to dismantle the Covid State.

95441 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 3, #736 of 1541 🔗

I think I came up with a good coinage there: the Covid State – an illiberal coercive apparatus representing the interests of the medical mafia, Big Pharma, tech billionaires, control freak academics, the Far Left and regimes that bear us ill will.

95523 ▶▶▶▶ Hugh_Manity, replying to OKUK, 1, #737 of 1541 🔗

I have, for the last twenty years, advocated that people should vote for any party other than from the mainstream. But who should you vote for? ANY new party will immediately face the whole might of the establishment against it in order to discredit it. And as we know, people fall for the propaganda.

95422 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to NonCompliant, 13, #738 of 1541 🔗

Beware defeatist trolling.

I am sure the vast majority of people here understand what we are up against. But Toby’s site is a beacon in a dark landscape. Why would any lockdown sceptic talk it down unless their real purpose was, shall we say, unfriendly?

95426 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to OKUK, 3, #739 of 1541 🔗

Well said.

95429 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 4, #740 of 1541 🔗

I feel defeatist multiple times every day, so I wouldn’t blame anyone for expressing that openly here. I have already done so on multiple occasions. As long as we hold the line and make our contribution, we are having an effect. My mood has changed from 10 minutes ago, see my other posts in this exchange. It’s nuts.

If someone offered me the chance to return to the Old Normal right now, with no memory of 2020 ever having happened, in all honesty I would have to think about it. Something really special is happening that is intoxicating and addictive. I’ve never had more energy or been more alive than in the last 5 months.

95433 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 3, #741 of 1541 🔗

The old Chinese curse was: “May you live in interesting times.”

95439 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 3, #742 of 1541 🔗

Very much so. And it’s also a blessing.

“You don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone” also springs to mind. Anyone over 40 (as I am) will know this, viscerally. I used to hate commuting, but what I wouldn’t give now for getting on a lousy, packed, delayed Southern service to anywhere. Or standing at a sweaty, uncomfortable easyJet departure gate, desperately needing a piss, wondering if the 3 hour delay displayed on the app is estimated or actual.

95443 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 2, #743 of 1541 🔗

Lol! I am sure we would all love to go back to complaining about the dearth of sunbeds around the pool!

95516 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, #744 of 1541 🔗

Moral: never throw in the towel!

95478 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Richard O, 2, #745 of 1541 🔗

Wow your last paragraph is an eye opener, ringing true to me as well. I have this feeling deep inside that for once in my life I will soon be making a stand that is final and non-negotiable. Right now I’m really enjoying my everyday life until that time comes.

95479 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Eddie, 3, #746 of 1541 🔗

I’m deadly serious as well, it really is that intense. I only need a maximum of 3-4 hours sleep a night. My ability to absorb, process and recall information has increased a hundredfold. It feels like brain capacity that has lain dormant for decades is being reactivated. What a trip.

95432 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, 11, #747 of 1541 🔗

Lockdown sceptics,Peter Hitchens,UK column and off guardian have provided what has been severely lacking in the MSM.
By holding the government to account and providing evidence based rebuttals they have kept the flame of truth alive.

95444 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #748 of 1541 🔗

Indeed and so shame on much lauded so called journalists like Tim Shipman who have stoked the fear-fire. They have been active players in this drama. They can’t shrug off responsibility for their part in causing the breakdown of our economy, education system, health service and cultural life.

95840 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to NonCompliant, 1, #749 of 1541 🔗

What to do?

I keep pushing the Anti Lockdown Rally next Saturday, but don’t have much info about it.

95372 freedom_not_fauci, replying to freedom_not_fauci, 2, #750 of 1541 🔗

That article at


is a very good one. We are now seeing that all the countries which locked down as tight as the coronanists begged for are getting second waves of pandemic, and second waves of panic. Those which didn’t lock down, or locked down in a way which was thankfully ineffective, are seeing only minor and rare local spikes (the main differences between non-lockeddown and ineffectively-lockeddown being not in regards to viral spread but in that only the former have any economy or human rights left). The message is that if you lock down hard, you lock down FOREVER. I’m sure that north of the border the Stasi Nannying Party have realised this, they’re terrified about English cases arriving because they realise, but won’t admit, that by abusing their people worse than the (already unforgivable) crooks running England did they’re going to be in fear of a second wave forever*.
*even after a vaccine is ready, if there ever is one, should the evil Nicola get her way

95703 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to freedom_not_fauci, 1, #751 of 1541 🔗

If it doesn’t work, lock down harder.

If it still doesn’t work, lock down even harder.

95383 court, replying to court, 14, #752 of 1541 🔗

Got guilted into going the chemist attached to the GP this morning to get a prescription for my wife. Straight in maskless, no questions. Felt good.

This evening I went out with her without the kids for the first time since the new year. Walked through Cabot Circus in Bristol to get to the restaurant. They had a small sign at each entrance ‘must wear a face covering’ but this is an open air shopping center with a suspended roof – there’s no way it was the ‘law’. Seems everyone else agreed as didn’t see 1 person with a mask. Loads of young people walking around being normal. Great to see. Was a pleasure to go to a full restaurant with no rules explained upon entrance, just nicely spaced tables with a card and a biro to fill in T&T but completely optional.

95512 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to court, 3, #753 of 1541 🔗

Just a quick thought on a bit of minor civil disobedience to disrupt t+t, but if biros are left on tables to fill in the form, why not ‘borrow’ the biro. That way the next group to use the table won’t find it easy to fill the form. And the establishment won’t be able to afford to replace ‘lost’ byros.

96000 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #754 of 1541 🔗

Bit mean to the establishment who are being as lax as possible!
Better the biro and its empty cards simply lie there all day untouched.

95410 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 11, #755 of 1541 🔗

Saw the deputy leader of Aberdeen City Council on BBC Scotland “The Nine” tonight. Brave woman indeed. The council are very unhappy about Sturgeon’s decision to extend the Aberdeen city lockdown for another (I think) 2 weeks. The council are trying to communicate sensibly with the SG to get the latter’s plan for an exit strategy from the lockdown (what infection figures will “satisfy” SG enough to end lockdown?) but getting nowhere. Dissent at an official local level definitely in the air. The council woman from Aberdeen got a very hard time from the pert young madam questioner in BBC Scotland studios in Glasgow (a right-on Sturgeon supporter and pro lockdown fanatic, as befits BBC Scotland) but held her ground admirably. Is the mood turning against Sturgeon and SG?

95472 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gillian, #756 of 1541 🔗

Aberdeen is Unionist country I believe.

95419 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 36, #757 of 1541 🔗

In Norfolk this week, and have to say it is generally worse than the Lake District. Lots of masked up people. Been to Lidl, Sainsbury’s and Tesco’s in Hunstanton and was the only unmasked shopper each time. Been to the Co-Op in Snettisham, as our ‘local’ a few times and had an interesting altercation today. Went into buy some baked beans to go with breakfast and saw a guy, late 50’s, maybe early 60’s with a ridiculous bandana on up to just below his eyes. I saw him give me a bit of a ‘look’ as I got the goods. He queued up before me, and started doing a bit of a dance as the person in front of him moved to put their things in a bag. I kept to the ‘respectful’ distance, but as he was at the till he looked at me and shook his head. I let that go. But then he looked at me again and let out an audible and quite deliberate sigh. I then said loudly enough for him and everybody else to hear ‘Have you got a problem?’ He replied ‘Why aren’t you wearing a mask?’ I said, ‘I’m exempt, have you got a problem with that?’ I think he was surprised by my directness and mumbled something about ‘that’s ok, I don’t have a problem’. I said, ‘Good, although if you don’t have a problem, why did you say it in the first place?’ He moves off and I put my beans on the counter. The (unmasked guy) serving me just smiled at me and shook his head. The young woman behind me in a mask smiled with her eyes and I felt immediately better. The point is though that this is all totally unnecessary. I don’t give a fuck, and actually enjoy it to an extent, (although I still feel a bit nervous each time I go into a shop) but the way they are turning people against each other is horrific. I’m not angry with the guy in the shop today, he is probably genuinely fearful. I’m angry with the lying bastards who have made him like that.

95473 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #758 of 1541 🔗

Great point you made there Chris. I too don’t blame the people for being whipped up in this frenzy. Gov’t and mainstream Media are the enemy

95511 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Eddie, 8, #759 of 1541 🔗

Led by Fetida Dickhead. That creep was doing exactly what she told them all to do.

96120 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, #760 of 1541 🔗

Why is a senior police officer inciting violence and law-breaking still in a job? Oh. . . . . . MW

95486 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Chris Hume, 7, #761 of 1541 🔗

I flit between not being angry with people because they have been whipped into a frenzy of fear by the government/media, to being annoyed that they can be so stupid to believe that something like a bandana can eradicate respiratory illness.

95540 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Chris Hume, 8, #762 of 1541 🔗

Well done Chris 💪🏻

I enjoy shopping in supermarkets maskless, more than before.

I am however, angry with that guy, and anyone like him. They are perpetuating this whole clown show, he would be the first person to cast the first stone, shout ‘SHE’S A WITCH’ or imform on Anne Frank. I have a problem with that.

I wish I was where to witness you taking him down a peg or two.

96124 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Winston Smith, #763 of 1541 🔗

I can’t let him off either. He’s not only a collaborator, he has chosen to act like an unpaid goon. And doing all this while wearing a bloody bandanna! MW

95684 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #764 of 1541 🔗

Quote: “but the way they are turning people against each other is horrific.”

Exactly what the foul Cresida Dickless said she hoped would happen. “We intend that people will police each other…” or similar words.

95421 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 15, #765 of 1541 🔗

Why do I torture myself? I made the mistake of replying to a thread on the New York Times web site. While I provide reference after reference to studies on the uselessness of masks (BMJ, NEJM, Annals of Internal Medicine, etc.) and challenge the posters to find me ONE RCT demonstrating the efficacy of face masks in preventing the spread of viruses, what do I get? I’m a Karen who belongs to QAnon! I said to that brilliant mind, “I didn’t know the British Medical Journal and New England Journal of Medicine were arms of QAnon! Thanks for that brilliant insight.” I keep going back and replying, “I’m still waiting for that RCT on how face masks will save us.” Still more vitriol — I should be ashamed of myself, etc., etc. Please remind me not to waste my time with these maskholes!

95424 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #766 of 1541 🔗

People who say masks work don’t even know what they are saying. Ask them, in what way do masks work exactly?

The best that anybody can say is that masks have an effect. How much of an effect is unproven in the context of disease control.

To say they work is basically meaningless and as useful as saying trousers work.

95437 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #767 of 1541 🔗

I know there are ZERO randomized controlled trials that demonstrate face masks works so I know they cannot meet my challenge. They don’t even try. It’s “the science” says, doctors smarter than you say, there are all kinds of studies (where?), and then they resort to personal attacks. We’ve got our work cut out for us…

95470 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #768 of 1541 🔗

Don’t bother with the Yanks, Lisa. Their lifelong exposure to propaganda is the heaviest in all the free world. The Empire creates its own reality and their citizens just gobble it up.

95509 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Eddie, 4, #769 of 1541 🔗

Well, not all of us. 🙂

95695 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Eddie, 1, #770 of 1541 🔗

Tish. In the US of A, you can shoot someone who tries to jab you without consent.

96087 ▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #771 of 1541 🔗

There was such a thing, back in the day, as the flying pickets – mobile pickets who used to travel to join a group who were picketing (during the Miner’s strike I think). Maybe we need to form a flying picket type group – all descending on the same comments page and flooding it with LS type comments. The psychology of it would be interesting to observe because as you’ve demonstrated here, it can be quite dispiriting to stand alone against a group even when you are 100 per cent sure you’re in the right.

Maybe people can suggest a few suitable sites we can focus on?

95477 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #772 of 1541 🔗

But they are wearing the mask to save You Nobody2020 !

95476 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #773 of 1541 🔗

The battlefield of WW3 is digital, and you are on the front lines.

Consider that many of the people you are debating with are political operatives. Their job is to demoralise you. On the balance of probability CCP, 77th Brigade and NSA are responsible for a significant proportion of the hostile reactions to anything you post, especially on mainstream forums like the New York Times.

Sure there will be genuine haters out there, but Peter Hitchens summed these up perfectly: “I assume that these assailants are the sort of people who spend their lives in basements quietly converting sugary, fizzy drinks into human lard.”

95427 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #774 of 1541 🔗

I wish that I could fly to London for the 29th of August, 2020.

95436 ▶▶ gina, replying to richard riewer, 1, #775 of 1541 🔗

I wish you could too.

95442 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to richard riewer, 2, #776 of 1541 🔗

Same! Won’t fly with a mask so it’s a non-starter.

95468 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #777 of 1541 🔗

Ditto here. One day I will return to the UK and it may be via boat

95485 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #778 of 1541 🔗

Just do as I have done and eat/drink throughout the flight, problem solved, no mask required!

95487 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #779 of 1541 🔗

Is alcohol still being served on flights? Many a long haul journey has been comfortably endured courtesy of beers and wines.

95557 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Richard O, 1, #780 of 1541 🔗

Yes. Flew back from Barbados on Monday. I ate and drank while awake and nobody pestered me to put a mask on while asleep (damned if I were going to wear one all night). So really it’s just getting on and off.
There is still booze but the catering on BA has gone to ratshit. Why does COVID mean plastic glasses? And an inability to heat meals? suspect BA trying to claw back money wherever they can.

95495 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #781 of 1541 🔗

That might work on a short flight, but I’d be sick if I ate my way from Toronto to London!

95506 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #782 of 1541 🔗

Pretend… empty bottle and rice paper snacks.

95993 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #783 of 1541 🔗

Chocolate peanuts or raisins. Just chew one when someone walks past ….

95534 ▶▶▶ Graham, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #784 of 1541 🔗

No need for a mask. I flew to Iceland and back last month barefaced, wearing an exemption badge, and had no trouble. Out on BA, back on Icelandair.

95535 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Graham, 1, #785 of 1541 🔗

Ooooohhh… that’s good to hear. Love Iceland. Maybe another trip is in the offing in that case. Is everything normal there? (normal from an Icelandic perspective – I mean they have an officially sanctioned pagan temple and a penis museum in Reykjavik). ).

95434 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #787 of 1541 🔗

I think Swedenborg may have already posted this study but somebody made a nice visual for it:

Contact Settings and Risk for Transmission in 3410 Close Contacts of Patients With COVID-19 in Guangzhou, China

95445 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #788 of 1541 🔗

Nice to see studies confirm what you already know through … proper science! I think SAGE should try some of the latter… 😉

95446 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #789 of 1541 🔗

an interview with Zeb Phoenix. At minute 28 Zeb announces that Chris Whitty had received a 31 million pound donation from the Gates Foundation. As well, he was soon to become a member of the executive board of the W.H.O. It goes on for many minutes. Vallance’s name is also mentionned.

95720 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to richard riewer, 1, #790 of 1541 🔗

Confirmed my suspicions.So the UK is doing what Gates wants us to do

95450 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 5, #791 of 1541 🔗

8 minutes into the interview, starting at minute 28, still going strong. 37 people make up the committee advising the government and 35 of them have ties, monetary or otherwise, with the Gates Foundation. No conspiracy here.

95455 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to richard riewer, #792 of 1541 🔗

Wow. I’m not surprised but I am surprised, if that makes sense!


95635 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to richard riewer, 1, #793 of 1541 🔗

The only two people on the 34 strong SAGE committee that haven’t been paid directly by Gates are Vallance, (GSK) and that woman who is paid by Microsoft.

95461 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 1, #794 of 1541 🔗

I urge all of you to listen to this April 23, 2020 interview of Zeb Phoenix on the Richie Allen Show.

95471 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, #795 of 1541 🔗

It’s Zed, not Zeb.

95599 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, 1, #796 of 1541 🔗

Zed’s dead baby, Zed’s dead!

95462 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 11, #797 of 1541 🔗

The crisis we are in was made principally by politicians. The route out of the crisis is a political one. We need a broad alliance party that will challenge the maskist-lockdownist movement on every point.

Toby Young is well placed to bring such s party into being.

95490 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to OKUK, 2, #798 of 1541 🔗

Maskist-Lockdownist. Marxist-Leninist updated for the 21st century.

95505 ▶▶ Nicky, replying to OKUK, #799 of 1541 🔗

Apologies if this has been posted earlier but overall result of this straw poll may be indicative if widely shared? https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1296056136756531201?s=20

95722 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to OKUK, 1, #800 of 1541 🔗

We want our rights and liberties back.
Also to weed out all the corrupt politicians and civil servants that receive backhanders (money, jobs, etc)

95822 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Victoria, #801 of 1541 🔗

Anti lockdown rally 19 Aug 2020

95987 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PastImperfect, #802 of 1541 🔗


95474 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #803 of 1541 🔗

The following text just arrived from my GP Practice.
‘You are now eligible for the pneumococcal vaccination, we have the vaccine in stock…”

WTF is that?

95480 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to karenovirus, 6, #804 of 1541 🔗

I had a recent telephone appointment with my doctor over something else (a skin tag that had changed sensitivity and colour but was diagnosed, from photos, as being benign) and I was offered the same thing.

Indeed, WTF. And what for? It’s not the flu season, we are not into what will become, inevitably, the ‘second wave’ (purely because we have a flu season EVERY YEAR!) and there is not, as far as I’m aware, a pneumococcal infection doiung the rounds, so WHY?

Suffice it to say, my response was a polite ‘No’.


95489 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to karenovirus, 4, #805 of 1541 🔗

“You’re going to get the Covid-19 vaccine come what may. We’ll call it something else if we have to. Hell we’ll even pay you for it. Just take the vaccine. It’s just a little prick….”

95492 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to karenovirus, 2, #806 of 1541 🔗

Isn’t it a vaccine for the type of Strep that causes “common” pneumonia?

95493 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to IMoz, 6, #807 of 1541 🔗

Been hearing about a lot of cases of this due to mask wearing. So people are depriving themselves of oxygen in order to protect themselves from something they will later be injected with.

Today’s virtue signalling maskholes will be tomorrow’s Big Pharma bottom line. Pin cushions for any and all vaccines, followed by the drugs required to ameliorate their side effects.

95496 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Richard O, 5, #808 of 1541 🔗

Action – reaction. Lockdowns and stress depress the immune system, so as people feel sicker and sicker they look to traditional medicine for “treatments.” The vaccine uptake will be better if people are scared, immuno-supressed, and feeling crappy.

95503 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #809 of 1541 🔗

Happily Lisa I am neither scared nor feeling crappy. They usually invite me to take Winter Flu jab which I decline, likewise this pneumococcal thing.

95502 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to IMoz, #810 of 1541 🔗

No idea, that’s why I’m asking you lot.

95980 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, #811 of 1541 🔗

I would guess so. Isn’t that treatable with antibiotics when necessary?

96144 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, #812 of 1541 🔗

Theoretically, but you also get complications which is what causes pneumonic deaths

95508 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 6, #813 of 1541 🔗

They phoned me with that one.
I hung up.

95532 ▶▶ davews, replying to karenovirus, 1, #814 of 1541 🔗

I had that last year. It is a one-off jab given to over 70s to reduce the dangers from pneumonia. I did wonder earlier in the year whether it would help if I were unfortunately to get COVID. You should get it – along with the shingles one that you will also qualify for.

95538 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to davews, 2, #815 of 1541 🔗

I’ll look out for shingles one thanks.

95553 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #816 of 1541 🔗

Zostavax? It’s about 50pct efficacious and lasts about 3 years. Worth it probably because chances of getting shingles are so high.

I would also get the pneumococcal one if I were eligible: it’s been around for several years. Not heard anything dodgy about it. And if everyone is going to panic every time somebody gets a respiratory infection this winter, because of COVID, I would want to reduce my chances of getting drawn into that shit show.

95563 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sophie123, #817 of 1541 🔗

Thank also for that, starting to change my mind.

95560 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to davews, #818 of 1541 🔗

Thanks for that, I’m 62, never even thought of shingles.

95589 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to karenovirus, 1, #819 of 1541 🔗

I may be wrong about the age they start offering the pneumonia shot – I was offered it last year when I had the flu jab – I am 71. Shingles is always given during your 70th year so you don’t qualify for that yet. Both had no side effects.

95610 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to davews, #820 of 1541 🔗

Perhaps it’s because I have COPD and legacy asthma.
Which, as an o/t aside, was supposed to have made vulnerable to the Covid but statistically did nòt.

95537 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 2, #822 of 1541 🔗

I was offered and had this last year (29th August), one-off and very effective from all I read. I didn’t bother with the offered flu vaccine and shan’t this year either. Worth doing your own research on pneumonia jab, I decided it was worth it. Some family history including youngsters, I’m still alive and no pneumonia.

95784 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to karenovirus, #823 of 1541 🔗

The flu jab has been around for some years. Each year the vaccine is adjusted based on the previous years’ virus variation. It usually gives no problems – I have had no reactions. If it is available now, I would get it – at least you know it cannot have had any anti-Covid elements added.

95481 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 12, #824 of 1541 🔗

Finally dug up what I was long looking for, but from the oncology field “The benefits and harms of breast cancer screening: an independent review”:-

However, there is a cost to women’s well being. In addition to extending some lives by early detection and treatment, mammographic screening detects cancers, proven to be cancers by pathological testing, that would not have come to clinical attention in the woman’s life, were it not for screening – called overdiagnosis. The consequence of overdiagnosis is that women have their cancer treated by surgery, radiotherapy and medication, but neither the woman nor her doctor can know whether this particular cancer would be one that could possibly lead to death, or one that would have remained undetected for the rest of the woman’s life.

Putting together benefit and overdiagnosis from the above figures, the panel estimates that for 10 000 UK women invited to screening from age 50 for 20 years, about 681 cancers will be found of which 129 will represent overdiagnosis, and 43 deaths from breast cancer will be prevented. In round terms, therefore, for each breast cancer death prevented, about three overdiagnosed cases will be identified and treated.


Now translate that into the overdiagnosis of COVID-19 and the collosal damage that that is causing!

95483 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to IMoz, 1, #825 of 1541 🔗

Super reference and ‘WOW’.


95494 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to IMoz, 8, #826 of 1541 🔗

So right! That’s why I only see a doctor if I’m ill and have refused all screening tests despite the pressure. Third leading cause of death in the US is medical error! I can only surmise it’s an issue everywhere.

95504 ▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #827 of 1541 🔗

I am the same Lisa. No screening for me. Acute medical care excellent in uk I think but longer term care/rehab and community support very poor with an over reliance on medical and pharmaceutical interventions.

95484 karenovirus, 12, #828 of 1541 🔗

Toby’s lead story about Wankcock ramping up random testing.
South Korea did that the week before our lockdown.
They randomly tested X,000s and found that a large proportion of them, primarily young, had already had the Covid and not noticed.
S. Koreas death rate went from horrible to not very much. It was this that originally inclined me towards Skepticism.

95513 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nfw, 3, #830 of 1541 🔗

Guardian shouting today
“Sweden had worst 6 month death toll for 150 years”.
So would we all had we not been in WWs 1 & 2, which Sweden wasn’t.

95549 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 9, #831 of 1541 🔗

According to Max Planck Institute Sweden’s all cause cumulative deaths (adjusted for population) from week 40 (2019) to week 23 (2020) were below the 2007-19 average. More fake news from the tax-dodging, slavery-supporting Graun.

95584 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to karenovirus, 3, #832 of 1541 🔗

This is typical manipulation of data in Project fear. There were 55000 deaths in 1869 in Sweden due to one of the last European famine. The population was 4 million today 10 million.In fact there was more deaths in 2015, 60000 as you can see above. In the age group < 65 there has been no pandemic in Sweden as the total death is even a bit lower compared to last 5 years. This fake or distorted data was published in a Swedish paper, picked up by Project fear and circled around the world by Guardian. As idiotic as Piers Morgan’s Blitz deaths but Big Pharma more or less control MSM.

95699 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, #833 of 1541 🔗

Unless they can show what would have happened in Sweden had they locked down then any such comparisons are irrelevant.

95620 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to karenovirus, #834 of 1541 🔗

Propaganda, pure and simple.

95696 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to karenovirus, #835 of 1541 🔗

If you set out to run a sub 4hr marathon and achieve it then it’s a success.

Just because somebody comes along and says you failed because somebody else ran a sub 3hr marathon does not make you a failure.

Sweden set out to flatten the curve and achieved it, it was a success. Just because somebody comes along and says they failed because some other country got less deaths does not make them a failure.

95700 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, #836 of 1541 🔗

no we wouldnt – we are still short of the death tolls for the big flu years .. But yes – Sweden has had a remarkably safe history

95499 BobT, replying to BobT, 8, #837 of 1541 🔗

A few days ago I proposed that this sheep vs sceptics thing is a chess game between emotion on one side and logic on the other and that the game is lost to the emotional side. I went further and suggested that the only way out of this is that the the world as we know it reaches rock bottom before a recovery can happen (just like recovery from a drug addiction).
Perhaps we do need a ‘new normal’ but not the one which involves face coverings, distancing, sex in masks, or child abuse in schools, nor the WEF or Gates’ version.
But do we want the ‘old normal’ back again?
The ‘old normal’ of the past 50 years has allowed the banks and corporations to become way more powerful than the people or the governments who represent them. Wealth has been concentrated into the hands of a few while the ordinary folk have had their working lives reduced to effective slavery. Many people are on minimum wage or the new fangled zero hours contracts and others are employed by huge service industry corporations in tedious, boring, meaningless jobs with little or no opportunity for improving their lot.
In the ‘old normal’ education standards have been brought down to the lowest common denominator. The harder working and smarter students have to put themselves in debt for a large portion of their lives to pay for their education unless of course they are lucky enough to be the offspring of the 1%.
In the ‘old normal’ the burden of government regulation has stifled innovation so that our young people cannot start their own business without begging financial support from ‘angel’ investors (the Devil’s assistants) who will eventually screw the young entrepeneur, further concentrating the wealth in the hand of the already rich.
In the ‘old normal’ the UK has more surveillance cameras than any country in the world. The state imposes large fines or imprisonment for what used to be minor offences. There are privatised traffic wardens given powers by the state to collect fines and make money. The government contracts many services to a few large companies who pay their staff subsistence wages hence further increasing the wealth inequality.
In the ‘old normal’ the UK has destroyed its own industrial base in favour of cheap imported goods leaving the country vulnerable to global shocks and predation.
In the ‘old normal’ people who work in cities sometimes spend a quarter of their waking lives on trains, buses or sitting in traffic jams.
In the ‘old normal’, rights and freedoms have been slowly eroded, from having to wear a crash helmet on a motorcycle or a seat belt in a car to not being allowed to smoke a cigar. Drinkers are now pariahs, heavyweight people are shamed, the elderly are packed off to care homes because their family cannot be arsed to look after them.

I could go on, but the ‘old normal’ is not as good as it may seem and I do see an opportunity to forge a new one.

95500 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to BobT, 16, #838 of 1541 🔗

I don’t disagree that there were problems with the “old normal.” But none of those can be redressed by draconian lockdowns, denying people without Covid medical care, trashing the economy and throwing millions of people out of work, mandating intrusive treatments like tests and vaccines, pitting citizens against each other, censoring opposing viewpoints, etc. Fascism will not make any one of those very real problem you’ve laid out better. Like you, I’d like to see something better than the “old normal” but not at the expense of freedom. On that I’m sure you would agree!

95507 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 18, #839 of 1541 🔗

I want the old normal back. It wasn’t paradise, but it was paradise compared with what we’ve got now,

95975 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #840 of 1541 🔗

Agree. The old normal had become increasingly pernicious over the last couple of decades. However, I like the direction the new normal is taking us even less.

95510 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BobT, 8, #841 of 1541 🔗

My Old Normal would go back to red phone and letter boxes, coppers with helmets, corner shops, Concorde and a proper Conservative Party; but we can keep the computers, smart phones and nicer cars

95531 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to karenovirus, 5, #842 of 1541 🔗

No no no! Get rid of smart phones. Bane of society – and one of the reasons why we’re in this mess, in my opinion. I smashed my old one with a lumphammer because it was taking over my life. Not missed it at all.

95533 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #843 of 1541 🔗

My old normal will include trying to arrange a meeting with a friend, them being two hours late, me having no way of contacting them because mobile phones weren’t invented yet, and standing round Piccadilly Circus in a snow storm watching the world bustle by.

95543 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #844 of 1541 🔗

Being the only punctual person in the world was even more of a pain before the mobile phone.

95565 ▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to karenovirus, 5, #845 of 1541 🔗

Hold on there… Nicer cars??? What planet are you on? Give me a Ford Zephyr dripping with chrome, sensuous curves and dynamic fins over a modern box of crap any day. Better yet, take me back further in time to the days of the coachbuilder’s art! A Rolls-Royce torpedo by Barker, a Bentley sportsman’s coupé by Gurney Nutting, a Talbot-Lago ‘teardrop’ coupé by Figoni et Falaschi, a Lancia cabriolet by Bocca, a Delage skiff by Labourdette, a Hispano-Suiza landaulet by Chapron, a Minerva sedanca de ville by Hibbard & Darrin! Make Beauty for Beauty’s sake the aim for society!

I want something designed by an artist’s hand, not by computers. I want something to be designed with beauty as its ultimate goal, not strangled by meddling safety legislations. I want something built by skilled craftsman, not by indifferent robots. I want an engine and running gear I can maintain myself with an annual service and basic tools, not a system of unhelpful computerised gimmicks that only a main dealer can repair (for an extortionate fee) when they go wrong.

The Devil take your modern cars (and your smartphones)! Other than that, all the best to you…

95617 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #846 of 1541 🔗

If we’re going back to an old normal I’ll pick&mix which bits I like. You, of course, may do likewise.

95643 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ben Shirley, #847 of 1541 🔗

Perhaps I should have said more reliable cars.
My mate inherited his dads Zephyf, used to go in it for Teddy Boy reunion nights at Crocs nitespot Rayleigh Essex late 70s

96111 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to karenovirus, #848 of 1541 🔗

Fair enough. In a properly libertarian state, i.e. without health and safety legislation, it would be perfectly possible to revert to old-fashioned styling attitudes while still using modern technology for the running gear.

95750 ▶▶▶▶ Simon, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #849 of 1541 🔗

I’m with you there, I much prefer driving older cars. I always thought I was born too late.

However, modern motorcycles are great.

95625 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BobT, 6, #850 of 1541 🔗

I used to find the old normal pretty depressing for many reasons. I have opted out of the world almost totally at least 10 years ago. I felt like an alien before covid. Alienated. I have often thought that we need a new normal, Obviously without the EVIL elements. A kinder more equitable one that respects people, pays them properly, doesn’t grind people down under relentless pressure. A new normal that will have quite a few elements of this new normal. Working from home, less commuting, more cycling, a 3 day week, a proper work/life balance, better housing, even the Universal basic income.

I long for a government that makes me feel like they care and are kind. A government that makes me feel like I can genuinely get meaningful help from. A government that isn’t just totally EVIL.

However I am stunned at how they have done this to us. With such malice and cruelty. I am surprised but then I was aware that the people who are running the show are some of the most evil people on the planet.

95501 karenovirus, 4, #851 of 1541 🔗

My Google news feed includes
Todays seems to be declaring that melting tundra (mmgw) will release locked up Plague and Anthrax which is gonna kill us all. In fact the article is dismissive of several such claims in the past decade.

But it goes on to decry the “dangerous experiments” which involve blowing up tons of the stuff in the open desert.

If they do manage to ‘accidentally’ release Plague and Anthrax who thinks a little panty mask will help?

@ Ashleigh Cowie 19th Aug 2020

95514 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 12, #852 of 1541 🔗

There have been a lot of references to ‘Animal Farm’ on this site.

But I think the Teletubbies series was a great deal more prescient.

It’s all there:

Tinky-Winky, Dipsy and Laa-Laa march on a Hill counting to 3 then they run away. The Teletubbies watch some children learn about the number three.’

‘Po plays with the levers and buttons on the control panel inside the Tubbytronic Superdome.’

‘Laa Laa decides to dance a secret dance after receiving a naughty sausage transmission. Every time the others return, Laa Laa pretends to be asleep.’

‘The Teletubbies try to make some Tubby Custard but the Tubby Custard Machine doesn’t work’

‘Po rides on her scooter in circles before the Magic Windmill spins and the Teletubbies watch a mother who is a doctor and Po has too much Tubby Custard and she gets Tubby Custard tummy.’

‘Inside the House the Teletubbies crawl through the Arch one by one. Then they watch some Children going for a long Walk.’

‘Tinky Winky has fun jumping on a hill. The Teletubbies watch some children going for a walk to look for dandelion clocks to blow.’

‘The Teletubbies have fun creeping round the column in the Tubbytronic Superdome before watching some children doing gymnastics.’

The Teletubbies join in a game when a Voice Trumpet sings “The Grand Old Duke of York”. ‘

And it turns out that the Teletubbies are running the United States as well!


95541 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #853 of 1541 🔗

Brilliant, could you do one for the Magic Roundabout please?

95524 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 20, #854 of 1541 🔗

There seems to be a bit of desperation creeping in with some Covid politicians, they need to keep this circus going until they get a vaccine so they can then claim a great victory for themselves. With death rates low and hospitals below capacity, the only way they can do this is with testing. There is now huge pressure on people to get tested and many are obliged to as part of their employment or to get medical treatment.

In Pendle they are now going door to door and to shopping centres to push testing

In Australia they are threatening to continue the lockdown because too few people are getting tested.

There now seems to be plenty of evidence that even when your immune system has ‘zapped’ the virus, the test can pick up RNA fragments and declare you +ve many weeks later. This plays right into the hands of the politicians who want this thing to continue until the magic vaccine arrives.

I expect the politicians would love to make testing mandatory but so far nobody has, although some are coming close to this approach. Unless people have been following sites like this they will probably just think oh well if it keeps them happy I’ll get tested, what harm can it do?
I think we need to do all we can to spread the word, do not get tested, it will only cause problems and prolong this Covid circus, getting tested is like digging your own grave.

95678 ▶▶ ChrisW, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #855 of 1541 🔗

In Australia they are threatening to continue the lockdown because too few people are getting tested

And if more people get tested they’ll find more cases and use that as a reason to continue lockdown. Heads they win, tails we lose.

96163 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Martindale, #856 of 1541 🔗

They are wearing us down with stupid restrictions and rules, in order to make people so desperate that they eventually agree to regular testing and tracking – which is what the government wanted to achieve in the first place,,

95525 Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 2, #857 of 1541 🔗

Apologies if anyone posted this already but this is a very good video of a Spanish doctor on TV telling the truth and the studio team try to refute what he is saying.


It has subtitles and I don’t speak Spanish so I can’t confirm the subtitles are correct.

95539 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Rabbit, 4, #858 of 1541 🔗

He sums up the mass hysteria very well

95548 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Rabbit, 3, #859 of 1541 🔗

Great interview. The hysterical journo at the end could only refute his claim that the media weren’t all over it at the outset by screaming that they have been all over it then and ever since. Nothing about the entire rest of the interview. Priceless

95564 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Rabbit, 2, #860 of 1541 🔗


95576 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Rabbit, 4, #861 of 1541 🔗

‘Struth. All those terrifying images been shown at the same time – like a disaster ‘movie’. All new to me as I rarely watch T.V. The only disaster I see about me s people wearing face masks.

95578 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Rabbit, #862 of 1541 🔗

My apologies to you rabbit, I just posted this after you. He is an impressive and articulate Doctor.

95583 ▶▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Basics, #863 of 1541 🔗

No problem, the more that see this the better, already shared link with sceptical and non-sceptical family members!

95530 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 20, #864 of 1541 🔗

I will repeat what I have said here on numerous occasions. There is only one game in town; the infections in hospitals and care homes and the disastrous practice of shifting infected patients into care homes

The government and the NHS are responsible for many unnecessary deaths

This from an article today by the BBC about relatives complaining about the neglect and deaths of their loved ones in care homes

“The prime minister has said there will be an independent inquiry but now is not the time.

The Welsh Government has said there should be an independent inquiry into its handling of the pandemic, but as part of a UK-wide probe.

A spokesman said: “The first minister has already indicated his support for a future public inquiry.

“For now, our focus remains on ensuring everything is done to protect people in Wales through the pandemic.”

So there we have it. Keep the sham pandemic narrative going for as long as possible to distract attention from what really happened

Track and trace, face masks, quarantine, PHE, second wave, etc, all flim flam to keep the fake narrative going and avoid scrutiny

95545 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Cecil B, 13, #865 of 1541 🔗

Spot on. That is EXACTLY what has been/is/will continue happening. We need to get people in a position to do so, to start asking for numbers of deaths from Covid 19, picked up by the general public from day to day activity in settings other than care homes and hospitals. The numbers will be very low. All this social distancing, masking, ‘household bubbles’ nonsense is designed to get people to think that this is a uniquely contagious and deadly disease. It was only the wise actions of Government that prevented it from running amok and slaughtering millions. Those of us who already see through all the charades and nonsense are being portrayed as the ‘enemy within’ who are selfishly undoing much of the good work and complicit in murdering people by failing to comply with simple ‘good manners’ like wearing a mask.

95546 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Chris Hume, 4, #866 of 1541 🔗

It occurred to me overnight that the problem with demonstrating that the overwhelming majority of transmissions occurred in institutions, is that it gives ammunition to the argument that lockdown works to stop transmission in the community.

95551 ▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to matt, 8, #867 of 1541 🔗

They (and prisons) are the most ‘locked down’ places in the country at all times. Full of really sick people, and in care homes, sick, old frail people. At the height of the ‘spread’there were still ‘mass gatherings’, people were still crowded into trains, and in offices and factories. People were still going to the pub. Nobody was wearing cloth over their faces. If it’s so deadly and so virulent in normal settings and amongst healthy people as to justify all these outrageous ‘measures’ where were the mass hospitalisations and deaths? It is all nonsense and they know it.

95559 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #868 of 1541 🔗

I know it and I know they know it. You seem to think that mere “facts” are important in justifying lockdown. If it can be conclusively shown that most deaths were caused by infections picked up in hospitals and care homes, it would seem obvious to me that this meant that you need a heavy viral load to pick up an infection strong enough to cause a significant problem, meaning that community transmission is either very rare or, more likely, rarely a problem. I’m just pointing out that those particular numbers can be spun by the other side of the argument.

95552 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to matt, 4, #869 of 1541 🔗

C dif, UTI’s. Nora virus, etc, previously where have the epi centres of these infections been?

Hospitals and care homes.

So when a new one turns up was it really a good idea to shuffle the deck of the infected and contagious?

95550 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, 2, #870 of 1541 🔗

I agree absolutely.

For completeness the pulpit troll pencil topper that is sturgeon spoke out last week to declare now is not the time for an inquiry. We are mid pandemic and so the civil servants haven’t yet burnt all the records.

I cannot recall the order of her pulpit speech and the Sunday Post’s(?) breaking of the carehome manslaughter details.

95612 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Cecil B, 1, #871 of 1541 🔗

NHS data distinguishes between hospital admissions where the patient is admitted because they are I’ll with covid symptoms and those who while an in-patient is diagnosed as covid. It seems likely that nearly all of this 2nd lot have acquired the infection in the hospital. Currently people admitted with a pre-existing diagnosis constitute 14% of covid patients. What’s more a big chunk of these patients admitted with a covid diagnosis appear to have come from a care home!
I would be interested to know how many people, if any, contract the infection in the community, get I’ll, go to hospital, die/discharged? I suspect it’s a vanishingly small number.

96159 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cecil B, #872 of 1541 🔗

Track and trace is to ‘soften us up’ for the regular testing that will be part of the China-like app deciding who we are ‘allowed’ to meet and where we are ‘allowed’ go in the future..

95544 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #873 of 1541 🔗

The worrying evidence that local lockdowns in England have not worked well
The evidence in some places does not look good


95939 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #874 of 1541 🔗

There is no denying the effectiveness of the UK’s first lockdown.

In achieving what exactly?

95547 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #875 of 1541 🔗

The Coronavirus Control Plan the Welsh Government will use to bring in local lockdowns in Wales
A new control plan has been published – this is how it works


95568 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #876 of 1541 🔗

They’ve slipped in mention of face coverings there as a tool, which is disappointing given Wales has at least avoided pretending they’re of any purpose so far.

Either way — further talk of local lockdowns etc for a non existent threat, all it takes to trigger is an increase in cases, they never once suggest it would take an increase in actual healthcare requirements and they throw in the lingering threat of a return to full lockdown.

Collection of scumbags running the show, they’re gonna hold this threat of lockdown and restrictions over us for ever now, they’ll be the new <100ml liquid into the airport.

95936 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, #877 of 1541 🔗

Which was a great excuse to take a 50p bottle of water off us so we could replace it with an identical one for £2.

95554 Biker, replying to Biker, 37, #878 of 1541 🔗

Bloke called me a cunt yesterday for not wearing a mask as i was leaving a supermarket so i turned round and stood right in his face without a word spoken by me he cowardly turned away shitting himself so i followed him back into the store and stood right next to him, he then kept moving so i kept moving and he ran up to the customer services desk for his safety. I then told him that i’ll be waiting for him when he leaves and we can discuss his assessment of me. So i did just that, i waited for him to leave. He came out of the store and when he saw me standing there he looked very worried indeed. He shouted he’d called the cops, still saying nothing i took out my phone took a photo of the dude and said it won’t be hard to find out who you are. I offered up an opportunity for this fucker to apologise which he didn’t take so i informed him politely we’ll meet again, this time not in front of cameras where we can discus this like men.
Off course i could give two shits about a bawbag like that but more and more the poor excuse of humanity that is passing as British these days are turning into creeps who demand everyone submit. Our once great nation is not only full of people from god knows where who shouldn’t have been allowed any where near our country and it’s own people who’ve become disgusting lackeys of an illegal government that has declared itself sovereign and removed the Queen and took power for itself where upon cunts like Boris Johnston who are in the pay of the secret government are turning us over to the one world government. This right now is more dangerous than the 2nd world war. It feels like we’ll lose our country and the people will not realise until it’s too late.
I know most of us are grunters and i accept that, after all we need stupid people to do the stupid jobs so my life could be easy but i underestimated the level of dumbness, i’m taken aback by it all. Right now we are living under occupation by a one world government and to be brutal i think we’re fucked. I don’t think we can win. Those of us against this will be easily destroyed. Give up, don’t fantasise that things can get better. We’re not getting out of this alive. They’ve came for us and they’re not going anywhere. The government isn’t British and we’re not going to be allowed to be brits any more. I can see a time coming where British people will take up arms against the government, armed revolution. These people doing this to us aren’t playing and think nothing of killing as many people as it takes.

95573 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to Biker, 15, #879 of 1541 🔗

Of all the people on this forum, he picked the wrong one to call a c**t!!!

95582 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 1, #880 of 1541 🔗

“Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed.”

You did that.


95606 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Biker, 6, #881 of 1541 🔗

Nice one. Glad I didn’t call you a C*&t. I think your right Biker. We are in big trouble.

95909 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Two-Six, 2, #882 of 1541 🔗

Big Trouble In Little Britain

95609 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Biker, 15, #883 of 1541 🔗

I had a similar encounter with a woman in Sainsbury’s over social distancing, pre masks. I put myself in her way all round the store having first given her a lecture on social distancing facts and figures. I think some people see a woman in their fifties and think they can bully them but It’s not advisable to judge this book by its cover. In my younger days at work my nickname was Strongbow because if you annoyed me 2 arrows immediately embedded themselves in your desk in the form of barbed comments!

95615 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #884 of 1541 🔗

haha me too! i’m in my 50s, built like a brick shithouse (do they still use that expression??) and have been known as ‘bruiser’ in my younger days!! 🙂
If someone had a dig at me in the supermarket i’d hate to see my reaction as may not be able to control myself, though my inner voice would be saying ignore the tosser and walk on…:-)

95645 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Sue, 5, #885 of 1541 🔗

And me! No outdoor gigs this year so I have repurposed my Docs as supermarket wear; a great boost to my confidence and added height, although I am already taller than most. It works, no one has confronted me but if they do I shalll say in my very best Lady Bracknell tones ‘I presume you are aware that some people are exempt’ and walk away.

95927 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Strange Days, #886 of 1541 🔗

Don’t walk away – let them do that!

95624 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 5, #887 of 1541 🔗

Never give up! Fuck ’em all!

I liked your reaction, silence is powerful, I’ve used that before with positive results.

I would have asked to repeat himself, but louder.

Cheers fellah

95630 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Biker, 4, #888 of 1541 🔗

We are so outnumbered there’s only one thing to do. We must attack.”

Sir Andrew Cunningham, First Sea Lord, 1943-46

95690 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Biker, 5, #889 of 1541 🔗

Brian Gerrish on UK Column often refers to this traitorous regime as a government of occupation. Peter Hitchens pointed out the other day that anyone who wondered how they might have behaved in totalitarian systems now have the answer. With complete subservience and active collaboration.

Without the compliance of the masses, there is no government authority. In my mind the order follower has always had more moral culpability for evil than the order giver. So getting in this guy’s face and sticking it to him is exactly how this war needs to be waged.

95713 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Richard O, 1, #890 of 1541 🔗

“…for we are many, and they are few…”

95704 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Biker, 4, #891 of 1541 🔗

‘W e can discuss his assessment of me ‘, I bloody love that phrase Biker,polite but full of intended menace !.I hate those cowardly shits like him,very brave running off to customer services like a little girl (no offence to little girls meant,they’ve usually got more about them that that wanker).Every time my wife has had hassle or abuse from other customers it has always been when she is on her own,it has never happened when I am with her,the complete spineless cowardice of these arseholes makes me sick.

95709 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 3, #892 of 1541 🔗

Good one Biker. I’m still waiting my first confrontation like that. I will just laugh, then sneer. Just carry an air that I know something which they don’t and I’m not about to tell them. Which is true.

‘Claustrophobia, there’s too much paranoia
There’s too many closets, so when will be fall?’

I recall either Jones or Lydon explaining that ‘closets’ were dumb people.

95904 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to TJN, 2, #893 of 1541 🔗

It’s amazing how little grief you get. I’ve had a dude at the garage let the door swing in my face but he could just have done that because he wasn’t paying attention i don’t know. You do get the eyes though. I’ve had a few eyes with a frown too. Wankers the lot of them.

95942 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 1, #894 of 1541 🔗

Anyone with a muzzle I make a point of not even looking at them. So I’ve no idea if I get eyes or not. If they want to debase their humanity that’s their affair.

People with original thoughts and ideas interest me, not automatons.

96165 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Biker, #895 of 1541 🔗

‘removed the queen’ – have read that before somewhere – is it true? Proof?

95555 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #896 of 1541 🔗

Australia: Authorities Give Themselves Power to Remove Children From Parents to Ensure COVID Compliance

95592 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #897 of 1541 🔗

The same is true in the UK. They can also demolish your house.

Let’s get these and the other draconian laws erased from the statues.

Next month they want to extend their powers for two more years.

I wonder if Toby still really believes it is a cock-up?

95602 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #898 of 1541 🔗

Have you got more details on what they need to do to extend their powers next month? Ta!

95664 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #899 of 1541 🔗

Sorry, no. They will no doubt find some excuse for doing so.

The Anti-Lockdown Rally on the 29th August needs to be much more widely advertised. And we need to let the MPs know what we want them to do.

95607 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to PastImperfect, 5, #900 of 1541 🔗

The emergency laws in the UK were published a week before the Lockdown. I read them then. It was the Sunday before the lockdown – I woke up at 2am, and couldn’t get back to sleep so read the different news sites. There was a new article in the Guardian referencing the Coronavirus Act and its powers, and I went to the link to skim through the act. Horrified! The next morning, I looked for that Guardian article – no trace of it. Removed from the Guardian website. News of the Act had been buried. That’s the moment I became a Lockdown Sceptic.

And don’t tell me this Act has been rushed through. It was perfectly formed a week before the Lockdown. How long before that had it been drafted?

95688 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #901 of 1541 🔗

Rushed through the paliament, as no one bothered to read.

One of a long sequences of documents that had been readed long before use, such as the patriot act.

95600 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Mr Dee, #902 of 1541 🔗

Is this true?

95605 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #903 of 1541 🔗

Well, Paul Joseph Watson, the author of the piece, is considered a conspiracy theorist by his detractors, but he gives examples of the legislation. It’s Section 25 of the COVID-19 Emergency Response Act 2020 .

Check it out for yourself:


95632 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Mr Dee, #904 of 1541 🔗

As others have said, it is true here…..all part of the master plan…..who am I kidding, they don’t have a plan, they’re making it up as they go along! httpp://www.laworfiction.com/2020/08/test-trace-and-detain/

95659 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #905 of 1541 🔗

First raised by the WHO spokesman in a press briefing back in April so been part of the plan all along.

95724 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #906 of 1541 🔗

UK is now ruled by diktat via twatter under an Enabling Act of which Hitler would have been proud.

95561 Will, replying to Will, #907 of 1541 🔗

Quick question, is the ONS fortnightly swab test the same as the PCR test used for pillar 2 testing?

95581 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Will, 9, #908 of 1541 🔗

No. The ONS find 0.05% positive out of random testing, so their specificity must be at least 99.95%. They also report a roughly constant asymptomatic ratio of about 60% implying specificity is even better.

Pillar 2 find more like 0.5% positive, keep changing the rules about who is supposed to have a test, the tests are done by private companies, they don’t publish the data properly (or might not even ask who is symptomatic).

Most likely their test is about 99.5% specific. But there may also be selection bias in who’s going for tests. If only symptomatic people were going for tests they would find more like 10% positive though. So why not tell us the asymptomatic ratio? It would give us so much more information.

The ONS know what they’re doing and publish their results properly. Pillar 2 are essentially useless. Their main purpose seems to be to justify government narrative (local lockdowns etc, the T&T charade) and to hit asinine targets for numbers of tests ministers have set for themselves so they can say they’re “doing more testing”.

95648 ▶▶▶ Athanasius, replying to guy153, 1, #909 of 1541 🔗

Thanks, this is useful.

95590 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #911 of 1541 🔗

I’d certainly not normally be amused by this, but quite frankly the 2 dickheads pestering station staff and being tragic enough to film it, deserved that. A shame that the guy doing it will end up being charged no doubt, for snapping and having a serious punch on him, I highly doubt he expected the guy to get knocked out immediately tho given the way he casually strolled away kind of doesn’t come across as the sort of person who cares. Hopefully the video gives others pause for thought before pestering people about masks – such a stupid thing to get in a fight over

95598 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #912 of 1541 🔗

Got what he deserved for being an obnoxious busybody.

95633 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Winston Smith, 11, #913 of 1541 🔗

A genuine case of provocation.

The government needs to see where this mask nonsense is leading and put a stop to it by getting back to the path of sanity. People will get killed (when someone punches a man like that it’s a lottery whether he suffers a bloody nose, a concussion, or even dies, any of those can result and there’s no real control of the outcome).

And while the tossers badgering people about wearing masks are to blame for that particular incident, it’s the government and Johnson personally who are responsible for the situation they have created.

95567 Basics, replying to Basics, 17, #914 of 1541 🔗

Spanish Doctor on mainstream news puts the entire situation across in TV news interview. The tv news producers scramble male news presenter to smear the doctor. You can see the how the propaganda machine operates – it is far from impressive. Their illusion is only millimetres (16ths) thick.

The doctors facial expressions are priceless. “We need to vaccinate against fear”.


95570 ▶▶ Will, replying to Basics, 10, #915 of 1541 🔗

I am convinced that there is a similar sentiment amongst many of the UK medical profession but they daren’t say it.

95572 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Will, 17, #916 of 1541 🔗

They ***ing need to say it.

95587 ▶▶▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Basics, 7, #917 of 1541 🔗

Agreed, you would hope if enough highly respected doctors and consultants came forward it might trigger others speaking up. They can’t sack all of them!

95588 ▶▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Basics, 10, #918 of 1541 🔗

And the fact that they haven’t makes them equally complicit alongside the government and the media.

95595 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Basics, 6, #919 of 1541 🔗

Quite – you know what they say about good men doing nothing!

95575 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 11, #920 of 1541 🔗

it’s a great interview. The dude that pops up shouting at the Doctor is a right wanker. He’s the kind of media dude that doesn’t think for himself and believes every word given to him to read out. He’ll be lunching with ministers where he’ll be told what to say. Everyone in the media that isn’t criticised by them is a bought and paid for shill. The likes of Toby and Peter Hitchens and not many more who are in the media not selling the new world order are only there because so far they’ve not stared killing journalists but that could change, easily.

95597 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Biker, 2, #921 of 1541 🔗

Sad, but so true.

95619 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Biker, 3, #922 of 1541 🔗

Yes, a total wanker, a complete gilipollas . Loved the doctor’s expression at the end.

95580 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 4, #923 of 1541 🔗

Damn, you beat me to it.

‘We need to vaccinate against fear’

Exactly what I was going to say 😉

95919 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, #924 of 1541 🔗

That’s a great slogan!

95594 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Basics, 5, #925 of 1541 🔗

Thats an awesome interview, thanks for posting. That media shrill at the end actually having the temerity to argue with a doctor who was serving on the ‘front line’ says it all. ‘We’ve lost control..’ – yes you have. Bout time too.

95692 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 1, #926 of 1541 🔗

What a brilliant excerpt : the one telling about the Emporer’s new clothes, and the uninvestigative journalist fraternity getting would up when they are called out.

Love it.

95911 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #927 of 1541 🔗

“You’ve lost control!”
He’s not kidding, LOL.

95574 Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, 5, #928 of 1541 🔗

A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. However, there is a chance a positive result means that you have antibodies from an infection with a virus from the same family of viruses (called coronaviruses), such as the one that causes the common cold.

95591 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Laura Gallagher, 15, #929 of 1541 🔗

And those other common cold antibodies can actually protect you from Covid, and might even be there in response to an actual SARS2 infection.

Basically your body is going to start by rummaging around in the tool drawer for anything that works. If it finds a 3/4 inch spanner left over from the last common cold when it really needs a 19mm never mind, that will do the job.

If the infection goes on a bit longer it’s more like to actually go out and buy the 19mm as well. But there’s no guarantee that if you don’t find the 19 the person didn’t have Covid.

95616 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, 6, #930 of 1541 🔗

Good analogy, thanks.

95631 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to guy153, 3, #931 of 1541 🔗

Apparently the immune system is now useless and should be disregarded because it doesn’t stop everyone from dying.

95652 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #932 of 1541 🔗

Vaccines use the immune system to do their job for them.

Just do the best you can to fortify your immune system.

95586 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 16, #933 of 1541 🔗

“But now old friends are acting strange
They shake their heads, they say I’ve changed
Well something’s lost, but something’s gained
In living every day”

Joni Mitchell

We may suffer now for the truth we’ve spoken, but what’s the point of joining the resistance after the war is over, anyone can do that

95604 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Cecil B, 20, #934 of 1541 🔗

I was only thinking yesterday there are a lot of people who in a few years will claim they always thought lockdown was a bad idea and that they never wore masks. We will be like the SAS: 10 times as many people claim to have been in the regiment than ever actually were! They will steal our valour! 🤣 🤣 🤣

95611 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 11, #935 of 1541 🔗

Yep, that’s bang on. Been thinking that for a very long time.

Even the ones who wore muzzles will say they did so only because it was the ‘law’, but that they never believed in it themselves.

Months ago now on this site, in my parody of Toby’s Shed (where he writes his posts) which I said would be a site of pilgrimage in decades to come, I concluded:

And people will like to think that had they been lockdown, back in 2020, they too would have had the wit and gumption to see through the fraud for what it was, and that they too would have made their stand. The vast majority wouldn’t, of course: they would have followed the herd, like almost everyone else.’

I do often wonder if there is much worth saving. Then again, ’twas ever thus. There always has been the herd and the free-thinkers. Of course, the latter will always be in the small minority, and perhaps evolution had to design it that way.

95788 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to TJN, 2, #936 of 1541 🔗

Much as I have issues with the work of Kahneman (like many psychologists he appears to be working out his issues by projecting them onto the populace at large) there is something in his system 1/system 2 brain theory. Basically, because reason is slow, evolution has led us to favour quick decisions based on pattern-matching (if it looks like it might be a sabre-toothed tiger, run) and a degree of post-rationalisation to cover our intellectual modesty. Thus, most people will simply follow the herd on the assumption that somebody else has made the judgement for them and convince themselves they made a rational choice. It’s a reasonable model and mostly fits observed behaviour.

Where Kahneman makes his mistake (well, one of them at least), however, is that he entirely precludes the possibility of learning. In his world, if every time you followed the herd half of them died it wouldn’t change your behaviour – you’d still follow them next time. Perhaps he would, I don’t know, but I don’t think most people are like that. I think that experience shapes our interpretation of patterns such that, when a small boy cries wolf for the third time (why is it always three times?) with no wolf in evidence, we view the matter with more scepticism. For Kahneman, of course, this story doesn’t scan – our aversion to risk means we would still believe the boy – but I’m not so sure.

Free-thinkers are perhaps, in a large part, those who have seen wolf cried once too often and learned to ignore the call (perhaps taking modest precautions in the event of a positive result), but in an era where wolves and sabre-toothed tigers aren’t a constant threat there will also be a contingent who manage to learn without the bloody experience of past failure and have thus educated their pattern matching from a position of relative safety.

95935 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Andrew Fish, #937 of 1541 🔗

I’m not a psychologist at all, so can’t really comment on findings such as this.

But I do think that most people are intellectually lazy and are comfortable only when in the herd.

As Jonathan Swift remarked, ‘c redulity is a more peaceful possession of the mind than curiosity’.

95593 mrjoeaverage, 18, #938 of 1541 🔗

Funny the things you learn on this excellent blog. I never knew until today that Chris Whitty was on the Executive Board of the WHO. It is on the WHO website, but not on his .Gov biography, which is surprising as you would think in that profession, that would be the pinnacle of your career. I must have been living in a cave when that happened! I’m surprised there was no media coverage of this. Or maybe there was, and I was living in a cave at that point too! But in any case, I guess it shows to some extent who is making the decisions in the UK.

95596 Mr Dee, 5, #939 of 1541 🔗

Pam Popper – reports on a twitter account that circulated, for a person who never existed – the tweets charted that fictional person’s death from Covid.

The fictitious person’s twitter account received condolences from academics who claimed to have known her… what!?

It’s easy to create fear from fiction.


95601 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 22, #940 of 1541 🔗


The papers only report on incidents were the mask wearer is the victim. I’m not advocating violence but the man and his friend were harassing a rail employee who was exempt and demanding to know why. I don’t blame her for snapping at them. They then started on a random stranger who belted one of them. I can understand why the guy snapped tbh. I don’t start yelling at random people when I see them fiddling with their masks and then fondling the goods in the supermarket. I don’t question the decisions of parents who have masked their tiny children. So why do some mask wearers feel the need to confront me?

Interesting story from my husband who is anti mask but also asthmatic and with a broken nose which surgery failed to resolve that means he can barely breathe through it. Him and another trucker were queuing to pay in a petrol station yesterday. A woman in the queue with a small masked child said “mummy why aren’t those men wearing masks!”. Mother (a skinny late 20s) says “because they are selfish”. My husband responds that he’s exempt but they are ineffectual and unsupported by the evidence anyway. Woman “starts muttering then the child turns round and says “are we going to die?” The other driver leans over and gently says “Yes m’duck. We are all going to die. Eventually.”

95614 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #941 of 1541 🔗

‘The papers only report on incidents were the mask wearer is the victim. ‘

To be fair, the BBC recently did report on a woman victimised for not wearing a mask: (which surprised me to be honest):


95626 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #942 of 1541 🔗

I think though that was because her sister made a huge fuss and she was clearly disabled. Attacks on and harassment of dissenters and those with non visible issues are ignored if not outright encouraged. This is the doing of Cressida Dick and Hancock who have encouraged the public to police mask compliance. This guy has now earned himself a punch in the gob for sticking his oar in. It’s no wonder people who can’t wear masks are increasingly avoiding shops. What on Earth right did this man think he had to aggressively harass a rail employee? That should be the real story but if he hadn’t been punched we’d never know about that part. 2 men shouting at a woman (who clearly would be exempt as her employer wouldn’t have allowed it). In any other circumstances the media would portray them as the bad guys but now he gets to play the victim.

95636 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 16, #943 of 1541 🔗

Cressida Dick is possibly the most disgraceful creature ever to sully public office in this country.

95717 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Liam, 2, #944 of 1541 🔗

Considering she’s chief of police yes I agree. The fact this stupid creature is still in office doesn’t improve my opinion of this government.

95698 ▶▶▶ Lorenzo Basso, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #945 of 1541 🔗

I’ve read numerous reports in various places of people being victimised for not wearing a mask. My mother who is anti-mask won’t go anywhere that she’s required to wear one as she fears she’s going to be attacked or abused. I must confess rather than being pleasantly surprised that the BBC is covering this sort of thing, I just see it as an extension of the fearmongering.

95711 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 7, #946 of 1541 🔗

My stepson wears a mask whens he goes into England to do shopping because he feels intimidated by both other shoppers and shopkeepers.

That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin .”

95715 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lorenzo Basso, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #947 of 1541 🔗

I’m a life-long Tory voter. Never again, as far as I’m concerned…

95621 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #948 of 1541 🔗

The guy who was knocked out and complaining wasn’t wearing a mask!

95629 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to JohnB, #949 of 1541 🔗

Are you sure? I thought the photo was the attacker?

95641 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #950 of 1541 🔗

In the video, he clearly wasn’t wearing a mask. To be fair, I’d really appreciate another angle to see the punch in more detail.

Also, the guy filming it saying “I’m not moving him, I know what to do”, whilst demonstrating clearly that he doesn’t know what to do. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

95712 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Winston Smith, 5, #951 of 1541 🔗

In the good old days your friends would come to your aid in such situations. These days they stand around filming it for posterity.

95729 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #952 of 1541 🔗

In this video it’s clear that he had a mask on but it gets knocked clean off by the punch (you can see it in the background).


95777 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Chicot, #953 of 1541 🔗

To be fair, I’m interested in the strike the itself. You don’t actually see the impact, where did it land? It’s just off camera.

95920 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #954 of 1541 🔗

“victim” bleeds from the mouth and it seemed to be a good right hook to the jaw. serves him right, it is amazing how something like this, with legitimacy seemingly bestowed by authority, turns arseholes into little hitlers who think they have the right, authority and superiority to enforce rules (sorry .. guidelines!)

95613 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 21, #955 of 1541 🔗

it was said that if God didn’t exist, it would be necessary to invent him. The human condition means we yearn for something beyond the existential, something intangible to believe in. Something bigger and beyond us. And for 2000 years we had Christianity.

Then it died.

But the need remained. Anything would do. Anything bigger than us, that we couldn’t see, smell or touch. A belief. We have to have beliefs, and we have to believe as a group. It gives comfort and strength if there’s a whole bunch of us that believe in the same thing. First there was Christianity, now there is Covid. And my, are there devotees! The real Christian outliers, the true believers, those just that bit better at believing than the others had to have a sign to show the rest how believing they were. Virtue signalling we call it now. With Christianity it was stigmata – essentially self harming to produce the bloody signs of the cross or crown of thorns on the body. Now it’s masks. Same mental shit, different times. Rest assured, just mask wearing won’t be enough soon. There will have to be bodily injuries to prove how the worship of the Covid God is done better by some than others. And as for the non-believers …. crucifixion will be too good for them. There will be inquisitions ….. Islam will start to look like a good idea.

95658 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to James Leary #KBF, 6, #956 of 1541 🔗

Nietzsche was right, when God is dead we have to become our own god. We dont make a very good job of it, apart from the bossiness and smiting.

95833 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to James Leary #KBF, #957 of 1541 🔗

Bondage S&M suppliers doing a roaring trade in whips yet ?

95618 Ned of the Hills, 7, #959 of 1541 🔗

Toby reports above about the new restrictions the Irish government has brought in this week due to an increase in ‘cases’. He writes:-

“As of Noon (Tuesday) the total number of cases in Ireland is 27,499 and the total number of deaths 1,775.”

Focusing on the month of August perhaps gives a better idea of the present disparity between cases and mortality.

There have been 1,482 cases so far this month.

And so far this month 8 deaths. (This is my tally following the government’s daily website bulletins)

Up to the 17th there were 30 hospital admissions (again my tally).

Since the masking edict on the 15th July “cases” have soared (most likely due to testing as Toby say) – but the mortality rate appears to have declined.

95622 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #960 of 1541 🔗

Excess Cardiac Arrest in the Community During the COVID-19 Pandemic Now these articles are coming.
 Just look at the graph cardiac arrests.Seems like an epidemic?

95628 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #961 of 1541 🔗

Lockdown casualties.

“The number of people in Denver who died of cardiac arrests at home in the two weeks following the statewide stay-at-home order was greater than the total number of people who died of COVID in the city during that time.”

95672 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, 1, #962 of 1541 🔗

Must’ve be unique to Denver and nobody saw it happening. Oh wait…


95627 TJN, replying to TJN, 25, #963 of 1541 🔗

Been away for a couple of days, up to the Midlands. It was only on the trip that it occurred to me that this was the TJN family’s first venture of the deep South West since before lockdown – anything much worth leaving here for was closed anyway, and we can quite happily keep ourselves occupied here in isolation.

On the M5 we stopped, as we usually do, at Gloucester Services – the Farmshop place that sells some nice stuff (at premium prices). Not recommended right now. Just about everyone not eating (in a separate area) was muzzled. Including staff, many of whom seemed very unhappy indeed. Maybe it’s because we were unmuzzled and spreading disease. I don’t know. When I insisted on paying cash for a couple of small items the assistant put on a latex glove to take the plaque-ridden note.

Usually, as service stations go, these two on either side of the motorway are reasonably pleasant. Not now. Only call in if you absolutely have to, want a laugh, or just enjoy the ghoulishly surreal.

To see all those muzzles made me feel almost physically sick, literally.

95634 ▶▶ Liam, replying to TJN, 12, #964 of 1541 🔗

Funnily enough Gloucester services was my first experience of a masked environment, a couple of days after the ghastly edict came down from on high. A similarly nauseating experience, saw two other people without them.

95639 ▶▶ Sue, replying to TJN, 5, #965 of 1541 🔗

that’s a shame as i make a point of stopping at gloucester services if heading that way – they have a great butchery section and those hot sausage rolls in the takeout coffee place are pretty good too (though expensive!!)
I haven’t been since maskmadness has set in – will try and avoid…

95697 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Sue, 12, #966 of 1541 🔗

Yes, good produce, sourced locally if the adverts are to be believed. Premium price, but that’s ok to break up a journey. To tell the truth, normally I don’t mind being the only unmuzzled person, and it wasn’t that that I was bothered about this time. I can’t put my finger on it, but there was something unusually miserable and even sinister about the place.

There appeared to me to be far fewer people than usual, especially in the shops bit. So I guess their business model will be in need of revision, and all those local suppliers will need additional outlets.

Some of the staff we really quite unpleasant though. Perhaps it’s the enforced muzzle wearing. One (not an unpleasant one) was making a point of talking really loudly and slowly through his muzzle, so I guess he was fed up with having to repeat himself. A girl at the food checkout (also not one of the unpleasant ones) actually pulled her muzzle down when talking to us, and she look very hot and flustered underneath.

Our society is sick, and it isn’t with covid.

95738 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TJN, 3, #967 of 1541 🔗

It REALLY IS A SICK SOCIETY. It’s been like this for a long time. I was acutely aware of this a long time ago. I have found myself walking about in Tescos with mysterious tears in my eyes long before COVID hit. I put it down to the cold wind or something….

95754 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Two-Six, #968 of 1541 🔗

Maybe a bit of serious economic adversity will jolt it out of its stupor.

95793 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to TJN, 2, #969 of 1541 🔗

i think it’ll get worse when the shit really hits the economy and jobs in the weeks to come, coupled with colder weather and the constant misery and propaganda from the msm and government. Dreading it!

95813 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sue, 2, #970 of 1541 🔗

yer, however it’s just beyond bad now so a little more bad won’t make that much difference….It’s beyond f*£$ed already.

95646 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to TJN, 12, #971 of 1541 🔗

Yep, everyone barring me masked at the motorway services on the A1. Entrance for the toilet next to the eating area, all masked going to the toilet, 10 foot away unmasked stuffing their fat faces full of KFC and burger king.

My OH – this is bollocks, makes no sense. Welcome to my world.

95640 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 15, #972 of 1541 🔗

Does Mrs Dick need to make a statement about the risks associated with ‘over shaming’

Perhaps she could point out that all ‘shaming’ should be proportionate.

How about a government agency to issue ‘shaming’ guidelines?

Or perhaps her and the dictator should issue face nappy wearers with tasers

The guy who got knocked out needs to say a huge thank you to Mrs Dick

95651 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Cecil B, 13, #973 of 1541 🔗

I’m thinking about starting a “Dick Out!” campaign but it might be misinterpreted.

95657 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Achilles, 2, #974 of 1541 🔗

It’s nice out…

95660 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Achilles, 10, #975 of 1541 🔗

Johnson Out! Hancock Out! Dick Out!

Has a certain ring to it does it not? The escalation of explictness is quite poetical

95662 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Strange Days, 11, #976 of 1541 🔗

Why not just reduce it to “All dicks out”?

95667 ▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Margaret, 2, #977 of 1541 🔗

As a sentiment 100% yes, although I do like the scansion of the longer version

95673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Strange Days, 7, #978 of 1541 🔗

“Tits” out works fine as well of course. Let’s keep it inclusive.

95674 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Strange Days, 7, #979 of 1541 🔗

“All public officials whose name incorporates one or more slang terms (whether English or American) for a penis should be removed from office now!”

Yeah, needs work…

95677 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #980 of 1541 🔗

Doesn’t bode well for Members of Parliament.

95679 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Strange Days, 8, #981 of 1541 🔗

Lockdown Sceptics – working to get the dicks out of our government.

95710 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Strange Days, 2, #982 of 1541 🔗

12 more and they could start a PEN15 club.

I’ll get my coat…

95797 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Strange Days, 2, #983 of 1541 🔗

A good chant for the 29th ! 🙂

95736 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Achilles, #984 of 1541 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

95682 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Cecil B, 4, #985 of 1541 🔗

Perhaps Dido Harding could become head of the Shaming Standards Agency?

95774 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #986 of 1541 🔗

I read that the Acronym Research and Standards Executive suggested Agency for Shaming Standards

95649 Mark, replying to Mark, 14, #987 of 1541 🔗

The truth according to the Guardian:

Sweden records highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020


(per karenovirus and Swedenborg, below)

Is it any wonder people who get their ideas about the world straight from the mainstream media are so delusional?

95680 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 4, #988 of 1541 🔗

The title of ‘MI6 House Journal’ is very apt for The Groan – i.e a channel for government – Cabinet Office propaganda into one part of the public domain.

95794 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #989 of 1541 🔗

6 ? Or 5 ?

95701 ▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to Mark, 6, #990 of 1541 🔗

That Guardian headline is particularly ugly because, barring deaths caused by war (which obviously will distort things) and depending on how badly they were hit by Spanish/Hong Kong/Asian flu the same thing is probably true of virtually any country significantly affected by covid 19. But they don’t mention any other country.

It is entirely possible to accept that covid 19 has a burden of death which is undoubtedly greater than an average year, and probably in most countries greater than a typical bad flu year, and still view the measures taken to combat it as grossly and criminally disproportionate.

95719 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Stuart Barker, 6, #991 of 1541 🔗

In reality the death numbers for covid probably aren’t historically significant in the vast majority of countries, when you account for population increase. I bet there’s almost no country where, population adjusted, you would have to go back more than a few years, a decade at most, to find a higher death year, and certainly the calculations in that tweet about Sweden suggest that’s the case there, if they are correct.

But of course, as the Guardian knows full well, most people just glance at the headlines.

95818 ▶▶▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to Mark, #992 of 1541 🔗

Indeed, I deliberately didn’t deal with the fact that they hadn’t populated adjusted either! Even on their unadjusted terms the headline is grossly misleading.

I’m not sure it helps our case, however, not to acknowledge that the burden of death from COVID19 is, broadly speaking, as bad as or a little worse than a bad flu year (particularly in countries which, for whatever complex reasons, have been more badly affected); it’s just not the orders of magnitude worse that would be needed to justify the policy decisions made in response to it.

95835 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stuart Barker, 1, #993 of 1541 🔗

Much of the burden of death has been caused by lockdown and government policy with regard to the frail elderly.

95745 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 3, #994 of 1541 🔗

It’s the sheer consistency and persistence that is the problem. I do get the impression the BBC and Guardian have been the worst, but there have been no UK outlets that have been outright sceptical, though some have been a little more open to occasional dissent..

95653 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 22, #995 of 1541 🔗

Waiting on a bus, bus stops at my stop, all on it muzzled.

Bovine animals being transported to the slaughterhouse. You can see it in their eyes. Scary.

Bus driver gave me a thumbs up and a wink. Must be nice to see a face for a change. Maybe he is 1 of us.

On a side note Leith walk is being dug up, jcb’s, holes and diggers everywhere. All the men working close and standing close together. Twats walking past masked up.

95714 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 6, #996 of 1541 🔗

Bovine animals being transported to the slaughterhouse. You can see it in their eyes.

A perfect description. Several other commenters have also noted how mask uptake and zombie behaviour has markedly increased this week. I think the culling is about to begin very soon.

For me, these people are already dead. Their bodies do not contain a human consciousness. Empty vessels, fully evacuated.

95734 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 4, #997 of 1541 🔗

Yes they are already DEAD. I felt this ages ago.

95832 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #998 of 1541 🔗

Slow acting poison from the MSM and especially the beeb.

95654 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 36, #999 of 1541 🔗

Woke up feeling arsey today so e-maild to hand jobs and !unt the Chair of the DHSC parliamentary select committee cc’d to Boris and my MP.

Don’t expect much back from any of the twats but makes me feel a bit better:

Matthew John David Hancock
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care

Jeremy Richard Streynsham Hunt
Chair of the Health and Social Care Select Committee

I have received and answer to a FOI request back from your department, the DHSC, about the PCR tests they are using and what the results mean.

One of my questions and the most important:

-supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.

The answer:

SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). Patients can have SARS-CoV-2 RNA before onset of illness, during the illness and after resolution of symptoms (all variable periods). The result has to be taken into context of symptoms present.

So my question to you both in your positions as Secretary of State for Health and as the Chair of the Parliamentary Committee on Health and Social Care is:


They also provided a link to a document by Health Technology Wales which in answer to this question:

– the official policy/guidance from DHSC to the various bodies who are following the above policy. I can confirm that the Department holds information relevant to your request. As the information held by the Department is in the public domain, we will under Section 21 of the FOI Act (information accessible to the applicant by other means) refer you to the published source, a summary of evidence on the accuracy of the test,


It does include a few notable gems such as (the paper’s original comments in blue with their updates in umber and with my notes in red):

We identified 39 individual studies and one pooled analysis reporting outcomes including diagnostic accuracy, detection rates and the time taken to obtain test results. We carried out quality assessment of the studies and judged the majority to be at risk of bias in one or more aspect of their design or conduct, which means their results may not be reliable. So not too accurate then these studies?

Some studies did not include methods of confirmatory/differential diagnosis to validate the test results obtained (e.g. the proportion of likely false positive and negative results). A pooled analysis estimated the sensitivity of an initial RT-PCR test result to be 89%, using results of repeated RT-PCR as the reference standard. So does this mean that there is an estimated 11% false result?

There are important gaps in the available evidence on the effectiveness of tests for the presence of SARS-CoV-2. Studies of virus testing in asymptomatic patients, or in specific populations such as healthcare workers are limited in number and there is no evidence on the validated diagnostic performance of the tests beyond their use in the hospital setting. So pretty useless then?

a true assessment of the accuracy of RT-PCR test results is very challenging, and using these RT-PCR for validation mean the same issues apply to the results of antibody tests studied in this way. so the test has lots of problems with accuracy and the antibody test cannot be used for doublechecking the results due to these inaccuracies?

So basically as admitted by the DHSC you are using tests that are “unreliable” to say the least, have no reference standard to double check the accuracy against and that have results that means nothing medically?

And yet you still pump out the continuous propaganda that whole swathes of the population have to be put into isolation and incarceration based on these tests and results.

An explanation would be very much appreciated by myself and many other people as there has been absolutely nothing coming from Government for months now that makes any kind of sense.

Yours in growing exasperation and disgust.

95666 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1000 of 1541 🔗

Well done!

95670 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1001 of 1541 🔗

Excellent. It’s the false positive figure that is important when the proportion of positive tests is so low. If they give figures (mean, and maybe maximum for any particular test house..?), they are going to be similar to the number of positive test results anyway, thus discrediting their results; if they can’t give figures then that also discredits their results.

It is also important that we force them to acknowledge that the raw number of “cases” does not mean there is a ‘spike’ if the number of tests is rising at the same time.

95691 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1002 of 1541 🔗

One of the Socialist parties in Northern Ireland are calling on increased lockdown measures today due to a “spike” in deaths. Their exact language.

There has been one death in about 3 weeks. Its either extremely lazy, awful understanding of statistics or downright fear mongering to gain political capital. It is no doubt the third. They are relentlessly pursuing the fear agenda, calling for all sorts of restrictions when nothing is happening. There are 4 people in hospital with CV-19, none in ICU.

Warp speed insanity. Lockdown measures announced this afternoon

95981 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1003 of 1541 🔗

I am distanced from it and so “spike in deaths” is an absolute hoot of insane lunacy. Masterful!

It sounds like the title of a death metal B side.

And then that ‘spike’ = one soul.

These are dangerous people. Dangerously contemptful.

95671 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1004 of 1541 🔗

As said – well done. Confirmation of the speculative nature of any connection between ‘identified’ RNA strands and an actual viral infection.

It would be a case of ‘I couldn’t get my breath’ if it was a new revelation, rather than a confirmation of what we actually know.

Any bets on the number of headlines that will contain this information for the public? 🙂

95706 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1005 of 1541 🔗

AG, Would you be able to copy to the Mayors of Leicester, Oldham and other towns in the frame, and their Health Chiefs, so they can mount a defence against lockdowns? You or someone had a pic of the Public Health woman for one of these councils recently? Well done!

95669 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 27, #1006 of 1541 🔗

Just been into Aldi with my five year old grandson.

Apart from the faceless zombies, two things depressed me:

They are still announcing special shopping hours and support for the NHS. Sorry but that should no longer be applicable, even IF it should ever have been sanctioned in the first place.

A young mum walking round with two young girls, both under eleven, with one of them muzzled. I looked first at the young muzzled one then gave her mum my most disapproving look (I have a collection of these) When they reached the checkout, the muzzle had been removed.

95685 ▶▶ Sceptic-on-Sea, replying to Margaret, 17, #1007 of 1541 🔗

It is so sad.

My six year old has taken to questioning loudly as to why other children are masked when out and about.

It is surprisingly effective. She has caused more than one “unmasking” too!

Maybe we all have something to learn from the power of a simple “Why?”.

95829 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sceptic-on-Sea, 3, #1008 of 1541 🔗

Give that girl a gold star – or several!

95873 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sceptic-on-Sea, #1009 of 1541 🔗

What do you say? “Because HER mummy is overcome with irrational fears” or similar? Or just shake your head sadly and say “I really don’t know….poor girl”

95687 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Margaret, 16, #1010 of 1541 🔗

Margaret, I pointed out something similar on yesterday’s thread, and suggested that this bandwagon is being kept alive by a certain type of mum intent on muzzling their little girls, entirely unnecessarily. As a mother of boys, and with a circle of female friends who nearly all have sons, this scares me. At school, all of our sons suffered from the woke, snowflake, Greta-loving, teacher-endorsed ‘feminisation’. I class myself as a feminist, and supporter of equality of opportunity. If young girls are conditioned to consider matters such as muzzling as somehow ’empowering’ in the same way that saving the planet secures them virtue bragging rights that gets them to a seat of power, I have spent a lifetime struggling to establish my rights and to get what I deserve for absolutely nothing.

95743 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, 8, #1011 of 1541 🔗

I’ve had to practise my disapproving looks a lot. My wife tells me I’m not allowed to punch people …

95753 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to JohnB, 1, #1012 of 1541 🔗

😂 😂 😂 😂 👍

95831 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, 1, #1013 of 1541 🔗

My husband tells me the same!

95827 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, #1014 of 1541 🔗

Good for you! Sometimes I wonder if the young kids want to be like their mums and older siblings though.

96047 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Margaret, 1, #1015 of 1541 🔗

I saw a mum with two under-11 boys, all masked, outside a children’s school uniform shop – I think they were waiting to be allowed in. Anyway I gave the mum a dirty look. Mind you, some say that’s my normal expression! 🙂

95683 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 24, #1016 of 1541 🔗

Complaint to the ASA.

OFCOM want an individual complaint sent to each broadcaster individually and a reference number from them before they will deal with it.

From a FOI to the DHSC about tests they are using. Q : supply the justification that a positive test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated. A: SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). Any broadcast, TV show, news show, advert says a positive test is the same as having the virus is a deliberate misrepresentation of the truth.

95686 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1017 of 1541 🔗

Go, AG, go!

95693 smurfs, replying to smurfs, 22, #1018 of 1541 🔗

We all know where this medical dictatorship is headed and time is not on our side. We ought to therefore project our voices beyond this echo chamber and the discussions over the idiotic rules and regulations, the casedemic, latest medical research, etc., as it is just wasting precious time when we should be looking at the bigger international dynamic we face.

Our struggle to be heard could benefit greatly by adopting the peaceful protest strategies of the French Yellow Vest movement i.e. the use of decentralised local protests focused on a common goal, or goals, under a unifying banner or symbol such as the yellow vest. Heck, why not just hijack their idea. No need for a national or international grand plan or leadership, just a feet-on-the-ground grassroots effort that will be hard to shut down.

Imagine the collective impact we could make nationally and internationally if every sceptic here found one or two like minded people and began protesting with placards, for example at their local shopping center every Saturday. I am convinced it would not be long before frightened sceptics are drawn to the cause by our public defiance, swelling our numbers and reach, something the media and politicians would not be able to ignore for too long.

All we need is a public forum – such as the one on LS – to bring all of us together until a single umbrella where we can discuss peaceful protest ideas, share success stories in our respective locales/countries, and draw on the inspiration of others for support and motivation.

In my 50+++ years on planet earth I have never felt to urge to protest, even when I lived in a tinpot banana republic, so this is a new experience for me. Nevertheless, the current dilemma we face is so dire that to do nothing now would be akin to rolling over and accepting the new normal like the faceless drones have done. I for one do not want to live my remaining years like that, and as it is only going to get worse I would rather go down fighting than live in hell like the plebs in the movie ‘ Snowpiercer ‘ (spoiler: it does have a David vs Goliath ending).

We literally have under a handful of months to make a difference, so what do you all think – fight, or flight to acquiescence and the promised land of new normal?

You / we need to decide soon.

95705 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to smurfs, 3, #1019 of 1541 🔗

In themselves, protests have very little effect on whatever the current establishment decides to do. I go back to the CND marches, anti nuclear demos, give peace a chance sit ins, take back the night marches, anti Vietnam war demos – none of which had the slightest effect on policy. Then I became a cynic.
What they do do, however, with sufficient MSM coverage, is wake up the general population to the idea that there’s something wrong in the air. And if they see that, without direct coercion or challenge, then there’s a chance they could take on board a new way of thinking…..

95739 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to bluemoon, 8, #1020 of 1541 🔗

Then I became a cynic.

I started out a cynic. Then I finally decided to give demonstrating a chance and went on the one against the Iraq War – one of the biggest history. Result? Ignored.

Pretty much confirmed that my cynicism about demonstrating had been correct.

Though as you suggest, there might be a case for them now. Because rather than trying to force policy in the face of disagreement on a widely discussed issue, it’s a matter of trying to break through an elite consensus that is effectively smothering any dissent.

95747 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #1021 of 1541 🔗

Demonstrations in themselves are not going to do the job, but as you say they may get the issue more noticed.

I know I keep harping on about this but I think we need a privately funded, professionally run information campaign to start to turn public opinion round. It may get shut down, but I feel it’s the only hope of getting out of this in months/small number of years rather than decades. Otherwise we’ll have to emigrate.

95759 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 3, #1022 of 1541 🔗

I agree, obviously. I suspect there’s been a general assumption that this is for a limited period and so there’s no point in making significant or long term investments to fight it. Also, wealthy individuals are human too and as subject to the effects of fear propaganda as the rest.

The longer things look like going on the more likelihood there is that things of the kind you suggest will materialise.


95769 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 4, #1023 of 1541 🔗

I wish I moved in those circles. I’ve contacted Luke Johnson and Simon Dolan but not had much of a positive response. It’s awkward because one is asking someone to put a lot of their own hard-earned money into something that may well fail and make them a pariah. It’s easy for us to say what we’d do in their shoes. I am sure a lot of people on here would happily devote what spare time and money they have to help, but it’s different to organising it yourself. KBF seems to be the most organised, but needs to do a lot more. A lot of people, people I always thought of as intelligent, seem happy to ignore this in order to stay sane, and assume it will go away. I keep telling them they are wrong and why I think that, but they usually just shut down. It’s partly self-preservation.

95875 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #1024 of 1541 🔗

A lot of people, people I always thought of as intelligent, seem happy to ignore this in order to stay sane, and assume it will go away.”

This is my experience also. Even to the extent of being willing to accept a rushed vaccine – simply on the basis that it will just allow things to get back to normal.

These are people who are on the sceptical part of the spectrum, and who will question why what was a limited short-term strategy to prevent the health services becoming overwhelmed is still continuing. But they just want it to all go away : anger about the blatant infringement of civil rights doesn’t (sadly) figure very high in the priority list.

I have also reflected on the Iraq demonstration – which was a pretty impressive event if you were there, which also united a lot of people of varying views. There is nowhere near that current level of active protest, I’m afraid – let alone any chance of it working.

95768 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Mark, 3, #1025 of 1541 🔗

The ‘not in my name’ march had me in tears, despite my cynicism. I wasn’t able to attend but was moved by the obvious strength of feeling especially in the young. And we all know what happened then.

95836 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Mark, 4, #1026 of 1541 🔗

You’re right that protests aren’t likely to make the government/establishment change their minds if said minds are already made up (e.g. Iraq War).

However, as bluemoon above says, they might influence the general public. Some might just become more entrenched in their views, but those who were already feeling resentful or doubtful about the situation, just might be encouraged to see that many other people feel the same way, and be willing to join them.

In my opinion demonstrations should stick to the facts/statistics vs. government/media misinformation angle, and avoid any “conspiracy” angle (Bill Gates, 5G, NWO etc.) , The latter will not only turn off many people who might otherwise be persuaded, but also give the media plenty of ammunition to dismiss all sceptics as “libertarian conspiracy theorists” or “far-right”, as happened with the Berlin protests where the media deliberately focused their attention on the fringe political groups taking part in the protest.

95846 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Mark, 3, #1027 of 1541 🔗

The difference is that the Iraq War did not need the compliance of the public in order for it to take place. In this case, many of the measures like mask-wearing and social distancing simply will not work if the public refuse to comply. If we can persuade enough of the undecided to come over to our side and start refusing to obey these nonsensical edicts, we can begin to unravel this thing.

95866 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Chicot, #1028 of 1541 🔗

Did the riots help kill off the Poll Tax? Or was it mass non compliance? Or something else. We can maybe learn from this

95879 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sophie123, 1, #1029 of 1541 🔗

It was the confluence of a number of factors – but the key one was political self-protection. It was a vote loser.

We are too far from a GE for that to be significant.

96132 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to RickH, #1030 of 1541 🔗

Not only that but all the other major parties are fully on board with the lockdown. Their only disagreement is with the details, not with the policy itself. With the poll tax there was at least some opposition in the Houses of Parliament and another party to vote for if you disagreed with it. What party can we vote for to end the lockdown even if there was an election tomorrow?

95728 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to smurfs, 1, #1031 of 1541 🔗

I was thinking along similar lines.

95731 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to smurfs, 6, #1032 of 1541 🔗

There is no saving those who have bought the lies. Given that this is such an overwhelming majority of the population, by extension there is no saving our society. Perhaps our job is simply to survive this onslaught with our consciousness intact so that we can transcend this place when our time comes.

Dismiss this as metaphysical/spiritual nonsense at your peril. The forces that brought us Covid-19 and are now implementing the technocratic slave state solution are the same that have pushed the materialist/reductionist world view since the mid-19th century.

95772 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard O, 3, #1033 of 1541 🔗

There is no saving those who have bought the lies.” You may be right, but I think it’s worth a try. People were easily persuaded of this, and I know a lot of “normal” people (by which I mean people who don’t have political agendas) who have bought the lies but would be much happier to put all this behind them if only they could be persuaded it’s all a load of BS.

95783 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Julian, 3, #1034 of 1541 🔗

Don’t get me wrong, I try every day. As you say, there is definitely a significant minority of people left who are going along to get along. Convert these people and we have a large enough group to make a difference. Don’t waste time with the rest who really believe in the masks etc.

The problem is time. I get the feeling it’s shit or bust in 2020.

95819 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard O, 5, #1035 of 1541 🔗

Agreed on not wasting time with the hard core fanatics

Not sure about the time frames

Humans do adapt to things, but they also have a strong social instinct

A lot of people ar expecting this to be over soon, the key thing is when they realise it isn’t, which way will they jump

95741 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to smurfs, 2, #1036 of 1541 🔗

Like-minded people are already getting together but we need to be careful not to have lots of disparate groups, as numbers mean strength.

StandupX has local meetings every weekend in some areas.

Keep Britain Free has a section on its forum where people can join together locally. One group is already large and very active, including successfully distributing thousands of leaflets.


The West Yorkshire group is embryonic but growing. Join your local group – or start one if necessary.

95752 ▶▶ Bella, replying to smurfs, 5, #1037 of 1541 🔗

Well fight of course. But you’re going to have expect to combat totalitarian tactics like they’re employing in Victoria, Australia. Who wants to be the first under the bus? It’s lonely out in the front.

95776 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bella, #1038 of 1541 🔗

Despite the exceptionally bleak outlook, if I thought that there was absolutely no chance of turning this around then I would gladly throw myself under a bus today. Death is infinitely preferable to lifelong total enslavement. Even if it means total annihilation (which I am also perfectly willing to accept despite my comment above).

Like others here I have always had deep reservations about the efficacy of physical protests. I think we will be forced into such action, and into direct confrontation with agents of the state, simply by virtue of being on the run to avoid the vaccine at all costs.

95766 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to smurfs, 1, #1039 of 1541 🔗

I engage on the subject of covid/lockdown as often as possible, quite gently but have charts to hand on my phone. Most agree that the masks/lockdown are stupid but carry on regardless.
I expect that was the reaction to ant-appeasers in the late 30s.

95770 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1040 of 1541 🔗

Talking of the 30s brings to mind the Jarrow march. That was effective.

95782 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to bluemoon, 2, #1041 of 1541 🔗

Come on, follow the Geordie boys, they’re marching for our freedom now.


Now, yes now is the hour!

95791 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to smurfs, 3, #1042 of 1541 🔗

I think you’re right to want to get our ideas out to the general public as it’s the only way forward and we must leave the ghetto. I know that where I live in the south west there are people out quite often with placards at the weekend .The only proplem I have with joining them is there placards are all about G 5 and bill gates and I’m against the lockdown because I believe it a disproportionate attack on our liberties and verging on a dictatorship locking people in their homes and telling us when we can go out and who we can visit and what we must wear on our faces. I believe if we are going to connect with thousands if not millions we should stick to the civil liberties route as it’s the only way to get everyone on board . In arguing with people I follow hitchens train of thought on the lockdown and on covid it’s self I stick to the ideas of Henaghan and Dr Lee . I believe are ideas are breaking through (although much too slow for me) . Mike Graham on talk radio is giving a great platform to hitchens and Karol sakoria each week . I speak to people all the time I believe many people are now realising that the threat from covid is now more or less over . There are probably a hell of a lot more on our side than we realise .All the opinion polls are just online and in no way represent the views of society .we can get out of this we just need to get our tactics right .

95862 ▶▶▶ smurfs, replying to wat tyler, #1043 of 1541 🔗

I agree it will not help to adopt issues, whilst factually correct, may be deemed extreme to those with a nervous disposition.

Focusing on arbitrary diktats such as masks etc and the introduction of conditional / mandatory vaccinations will probably be good enough to drag the masses with us.

95837 ▶▶ snippet, replying to smurfs, 3, #1044 of 1541 🔗

I think the return of schools combined with the rain will force a lot of families to go back to normal. When you’re trying to live life and herd children in wet weather, OCD hygienic behaviour goes out of the window. I can see a lot of potential for conflict when expectations collide and just hope that old normal politeness wins the day.

95888 ▶▶ RickH, replying to smurfs, 1, #1045 of 1541 🔗

A couple of slightly optimistic encounters today as straws in the wind.

Had a good natter with the window cleaner, who obviously comes across a lot of different people by virtue of his job. He has become very critical and aware of the mental impact on many of his older clients, and is sick of his mother being too afraid to make physical contact.

Then with my daughter-in-law’s father, who has every reason to be extremely cautious, as a sufferer with COPD, and has been sheltering – quite wisely during the real epidemic. But is now heartily sick of the deprivation of real life, and is venturing out more widely.

Perhaps it’s these gradual shifts, and the reinforcement of the idea that all this imposed deprivation is pointless that will win the day as the message gets spread.I expect many of you do exactly the same – just gently feed in scepticism (rather than go on a full-scale rant) whenever the opportunity arises.

95708 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 6, #1046 of 1541 🔗

BBC back onto European stats this morning, highest numbers since April and so on.

Can anyone explain this to me?

If the virus has “gone” how can this still be the case?

Our narrative to non-sceptics falls down if we see rises doesn’t it?

95716 ▶▶ Sally, replying to hotrod, 8, #1047 of 1541 🔗

Does it? It just means that herd immunity hasn’t been reached in most places. Lockdowns, if they do anything, delay and prolong this process. The prolonged process of achieving herd immunity and the prolonging of mitigation measures also prolongs and increases all the collateral economic and social damage. It possibly even increases the total number of virus-related deaths, because the vulnerable members of the population are exposed to risk for much longer before herd immunity is reached. I don’t see how it undermines the skeptic argument at all.

95721 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to hotrod, 10, #1048 of 1541 🔗

Cases are going up because more testing is being done seemingly. Seek and ye shall find. Mortality rates tell a different story. (c.f. what I’ve been after saying below)

95725 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to hotrod, 3, #1049 of 1541 🔗


95727 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #1050 of 1541 🔗

Are you sure? I am a woman and know some like-minded sceptical women. I for one certainly do not relish all this nonsense. enough already.

95756 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to watashi, #1051 of 1541 🔗

I am one too but I was actually referring to the news presenters.

95773 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1052 of 1541 🔗

They’re paid to be airheads.

95903 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1053 of 1541 🔗

I would suggest the news readers are highly skilled in various dark arts. No morals, obviously, but evil rather than stupid.

95726 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to hotrod, 6, #1054 of 1541 🔗

I think we just have to be careful with terminology. Herd immunity doesn’t mean the virus is “gone” it just means it can’t spread in an exponential way and can now just be classed with the other viruses that circulate around. So when Toby says it’s gone that can be misleading. People will still die from it and there will probably be seasonality fluctuation like the flu but it’s no longer an uncontrollable or out of the ordinary threat to public health. As Sally says the suppression strategy also means you can expect some larger regional variations and spikes of deaths (caveated by counting methodology) where herd immunity has not been established yet.

95790 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Achilles, 5, #1055 of 1541 🔗

In statistical terms it has gone.More people dying of flu now.
It’s just desperate governments around the world trying to maintain fear and control.
It never was a uncontrollable or out of the ordinary threat to the public.

95807 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1056 of 1541 🔗

I agree with all that but if you say it’s gone and there are figures saying people are still dying from it then you leave yourself open to criticism from people not looking at it from a statistical viewpoint (which has been the whole problem all along really). It’s probably better to say the threat has gone.

95733 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to hotrod, 5, #1057 of 1541 🔗

See ivor Cummings on “casedemic ”


Also, carl heneghan on radio 4, Today programme, 7.40 this morning saying false positives could be as high as 50%. Unfortunately Martha Carney didn’t go on to ask what could be driving increased positive tests- not ill people- in Leicester, other countries etc. Plus increased testing

95762 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Marie R, 2, #1058 of 1541 🔗

I doubt if anyone has died of Covid in Leicester since their lockdown. They found a spike of cases there by bumping up the number of testing stations from 1 in early June to 8 come July.

95808 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1059 of 1541 🔗

16 deaths in the whole of the UK yesterday.
28 new “cases” in Leicester.

95744 ▶▶ Will, replying to hotrod, 4, #1060 of 1541 🔗

Highest numbers of what and relative to what. The best graph I have seen is the excellent Heneghan one showing the rate of “infections” asa percentage of tests taken.

95746 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to hotrod, 5, #1061 of 1541 🔗

What they are not reporting because it doesnt quite fit the narrative is that world ‘cases’ for the last 3 weeks are currently at a bumpy plateau, today a slight downard tick. World daily deaths are also ticking down and may also hit a plateau. I am keeping my fingers crossed that despite the fact that such big population countries such as India still have rising cases, this could be the beginning of the end. See Worldometer for the 7 day averages.

95755 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DressageRider, 2, #1062 of 1541 🔗

India, 50,000 deaths as gleefully reported by the beeb, no mention of Indias 1.3 billion population.

95764 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1063 of 1541 🔗

25,000 people die every day in India

95767 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1064 of 1541 🔗

Over 30,000 people died by drowning in India in 2018. They should fill in all rivers and lakes, and wall off the coast.


95778 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Liam, 1, #1065 of 1541 🔗

Don’t suggest it, they will get the concrete mixers ready….

95751 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to hotrod, #1066 of 1541 🔗

See Toby’s link in round up last week, FT, 2 graphs showing large rise in cases, no rise in deaths. Simple.

95779 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to hotrod, 6, #1067 of 1541 🔗

Majority of “cases” in 20-40 age bracket.As societies have opened up more people have become “infected”
The reality is they are ramping up the testing and finding people with no symptoms,who are not ill and have traces of something in their system,also using a dodgy test and the death rate is non existent.

95841 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to hotrod, 5, #1068 of 1541 🔗

3 points:

1) Stop watching the BBC.

2) “Cases” doesn’t really mean anything. The person could be asymptomatic, have a mild case, a severe case, had a case but is now fully recovered, or could even be a false positive.

3) Just presenting the case numbers (as the BBC does) without telling us how many were tested is absolutely meaningless. If you test 1000 people 1 week and then 100,000 people the next week, guess which week will show more “cases”. The case number by itself tells you absolutely nothing about whether the number of infections is going up or down.

95859 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to hotrod, #1069 of 1541 🔗

If you look at Europe wide data the same trend can be seen. Daily deaths are bumping along around 500, yet cases are going up in line with testing.


There’s a decent graph there. You can see the EU counties and the rest of Europe converging to the current rate. Deaths have been in and around current rates since May.

So when they say deaths are spiking in Eastern Europe, that’s fine, but the virus is just progressing from a lower base as it seems to have taken hold at a later stage.

If course, comparing counties or summary stats for regions comes with huge caveats. They are certainly overestimated

95943 ▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to hotrod, #1070 of 1541 🔗

comment image
Not seeing much of a second peak in the data myself.

95718 Ned of the Hills, 6, #1071 of 1541 🔗

So far this month 8 people in the Republic of Ireland have been registered as dying from Covid. When did they become infected? (Sin é an ceist – That’s the question.)

There were in Ireland at the end of June more than 25,000 ‘confirmed’ Covoid cases. Of which, less than 30 could have died in July.

In the natural course of events it might be expected a dozen or so people out of 25,000 will come to the end of their days every month. Are these the ones now being counted?

Does anyone know?

95735 Edna, replying to Edna, 18, #1072 of 1541 🔗

I had an appointment at a new hairdressing salon this morning, at 9 a.m. At 8.40 a.m. they rang to say that as a friend of one of the stylists had tested positive for Covid, they would have to reschedule my appointment 🙁 I expressed my disappointment and she said that they had to let everyone know and yes, it was a shame. I said that I would have happily gone anyway but that I understood. After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing in the conversation, it turned out that if I was happy to, they were happy for me to go in! I said I would have been happy even if it had been the stylist doing my hair that had tested positive!

So off I went on a lovely sunny morning to the salon. Haven’t really been out around shopping areas much recently and I was dismayed to see quite a few masked people walking around. Got to the salon and walked in. It was empty and the owner asked me if I had a mask (I’d said when I made the appointment that I was exempt) and my heart sank a bit. I blithely said I was exempt and showed him the lanyard so he said OK, come and sit down. Another client came in and I gathered from the conversation between her and the owner that the salon had cancelled all appointments for to-day because they all had to go for a test. The other person was there because she had said she wasn’t bothered (but she did wear a mask). Both the owner and the stylist who did my hair had face shields and masks (even though it’s not yet law that they have to wear a mask).

The stylist who did my hair was very relaxed and at one point lowered her mask because I said I couldn’t hear what she was saying. I did mention that she needn’t wear it on my account but I think she said that the boss wanted them to. She also cut my hair very well, I was very pleased.

And, they don’t take cards, only cash or cheque! A vastly more pleasant experience than at my previous hairdresser’s. So I made another appointment with her and I can’t see that I’ll go back to my previous hairdresser.

95748 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, 5, #1073 of 1541 🔗

Great find! I suppose they’ll have to be seen all masked up to keep the local dragons off their backs.

95758 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1074 of 1541 🔗

That’s what I thought too (about the masks). I feel so sorry for them though; the girl cutting my hair had to keep fiddling with her mask because it didn’t fit very well.

95742 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #1075 of 1541 🔗

Oh dear, dear, more ‘unintended consequences’ of wearing masks have come to light:



But don’t worry, if this happens to you it should not stop you wearin’ a damn mask. Jessica has answers for you so you can go right on making yourself sick. Just look at her outstanding credentials. Jessica, a hero of our time!:

Jessica Migala is a freelance writer in the Chicago area. She focuses on lifestyle, health, fitness, and nutrition, and has written for O, The Oprah Magazine, Women’s Health, Health, Eating Well, Runner’s World, and more. Jessica and her husband recently traded city living for the ‘burbs, giving their two young boys and beagle, Millie, more space to run around. To her, a healthy lifestyle means having cookies in the morning and balancing that with vegetables later in the day. She graduated from Syracuse University with a bachelor’s degree in magazine journalism. Find her at JessicaMigala.com.

95749 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #1076 of 1541 🔗


95802 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to DressageRider, 2, #1077 of 1541 🔗

Mummm candida….In your mouth. Lovely. BRING IT ON!

95885 ▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #1078 of 1541 🔗

Here’s how to vet rid of the bloody acne.
Burn your bloody mask.
As you are of course a moron, I will add that it is advisable to take the mask off before you burn it.

96162 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #1079 of 1541 🔗

Made me spurt my coffee – thanks Annie. 🙂

95761 Dan Clarke, 15, #1080 of 1541 🔗

The media are trying to kick off the 2nd wave agenda, they won’t be happy until they do.

95763 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 10, #1081 of 1541 🔗

Had a very interesting conversation with a friend who is a Doctor last night, who a few weeks before the lockdown was on the front line fighting the COVID-19 infection. at the time what he told me really scared me and made me exteremely anxious about what was to come. What he told me then was as follows which comes from a post I put on a forum back then:

“Trying to fight COVID-19 is like flying a plane whilst still trying to build the plane” He also said that “anyone over the age of 55 is f*cked!”, he gave me an example that yesterday day he was treating a 56 year old with no underlying illness who was admitted with COVID-19 and he has no chance of survival. All the media is reporting that you are only at risk of death is you have underlying illness, he says this is not true at all as it is severely affecting both the healthy and those with underlying conditions. One of the things that shocked me the most was that he said that “his father is 81 years old and that from what he has seen that he believes if he catches it he is as good as dead.”

Now I met up with him for the first time yesterday since then and what he had to tell me was completely different to back then. He was saying that back in March when people were admitted to the wards and ICU, nothing they did to treat them would work to save the patients. He says now though this has completely changed and that when patients are admitted the treatments work such as Oxygen therapy which had no effect whatsoever back in March, and that they don’t actually understand what has caused this change.

He used to be an Army doctor and had been in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he said that back in March & April that the hospital was like a battleground with them being helpless in helping patients who would just die, and that a lot of the Doctors and Nurses were suffering PTSD, but the NHS has nothing in place to help staff cope with PTSD unlike in the Army where they provide support for people. He said fortunately he’s been able to take a few weeks leave now to recover as they’re so slack now, and he said they’re hardly treating anyone at the moment at the hospital he works at

So, from what he’s saying the original virus seems to have gone, or it has mutated and changed into a much milder form.

95789 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to JohnB, 18, #1082 of 1541 🔗

Well I think it’s also safe to say that he was maybe guilty of being somewhat hysterical back in march. his claim that anyone over 55 is fucked, whether with or without underlying issues, is simply not borne out in the data showing who died _with_ it, let alone of it.

95799 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 3, #1083 of 1541 🔗

I can understand the hysterical reaction back then when nothing you did would save a patient.

The main point is that this now isn’t the same virus as back then, and w e do not seem to be hearing anyone else telling us this, it seems to be being hidden from us and instead we are being led to believe it is still as potent as back in March & April.

95800 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #1084 of 1541 🔗

And that a second wave is coming ….

95801 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #1085 of 1541 🔗

Yeah, spot on.

95811 ▶▶▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to JohnB, 10, #1086 of 1541 🔗

Well, except the problem is front-line clinical staff don’t make good witnesses. By definition they only see the worst cases so they do not have a good overall picture.

Sadly they make great TV fodder…

95824 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stuart Barker, 1, #1087 of 1541 🔗

But they know what treatment works and what doesn’t as they’re the ones administering it.

95855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, 1, #1088 of 1541 🔗

In the early days they did not know what treatments worked, hence the shift from mechanical intubation in favour of oxygen saturation plus dexamethasone. Moreover, the stay put advice was exactly the wrong advice for a meaningful number of people who did not improve by day 7/8 (Boris, for example). If the doctors who have spoken out in the US and France are correct, it is possible to stop most, if not all, potentially serious cases at day 5/6 by a simple and cheap cocktail of HCQ, azithromycin and zinc. How many of our doctors were considering this at the time?

95868 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1089 of 1541 🔗

Came across this article from Carl Heneghan’s department. Back in May they were saying there was very weak/ no evidence for efficacy of HCQ….

95905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DocRC, #1090 of 1541 🔗

Thanks. The US doctors were saying there were no peer-reviewed studies with the full cocktail, and in an outpatient setting (ie. prior to being at death’s door/in full cytokine storm mode).


96716 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to JohnB, #1091 of 1541 🔗


95848 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 1, #1092 of 1541 🔗

Yes – remember Farr’s statement about everything but death being merely inference – and the analysis of overall deaths certainly do not bear out that uniformly grim picture from March as one that applied generally (see the CEBM historical data). Deaths actually peaked in April (8th) – and it was clear that the gradient of mortality rose steeply from about 70-75, not 55.

It’s a classic illustration of the problems of observing a very biased population and translating it into general terms.

95849 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to RickH, 1, #1093 of 1541 🔗

Or of just making stuff up.

96015 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark II, #1094 of 1541 🔗

That sort of thing was all over the media at the time. Dead victims covered in bolis and ulcers, dying by drowning with lungs full of putrid puss.
Straight out of a medieval plague manual.

95845 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, 4, #1095 of 1541 🔗

A few words of caution regarding the friend, and his perceptions of things in March. As an army doctor in a war zone, his experience is particular types of battlefield injuries, which are of course, highly visible/obvious. Yes, soldiers die of other things in war zones, such as accidents and illness, but again, largely obvious and known. Soldiers are generally fit, young and active. A 55 year-old in ICU suffering from the virus in March/April, might not have been obviously suffering from no underlying health conditions, but that is not the same as not suffering from either an undiagnosed health condition (early onset diabetes, heart condition) or indeed, a lack of fitness and obesity.

95854 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1096 of 1541 🔗

I get the hysterical stuff, it was all new back then, so very understandable.

The main thing is the difference between the virus then and now, and that it seems to be completely different with treatments working now for it that didn’t at the beginning. This is a big reason why death rates are so low, and we’re not being told anything about this. Also, we’re still having the vaccine pushed at us, when it looks like the virus can be treated by therapeutics now.

95865 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, 2, #1097 of 1541 🔗

Agree. Difficult to distinguish between ‘the virus has mutated to something less deadly’, and ‘all the vulnerable have already died so the virus is less deadly’. You would have hoped ‘the scientists’ would be running their discriminant analysis models of big datasets to determine which. Of course, if the end game is the vaccine – and that is my view – then perhaps better to not find out!

95899 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to JohnB, 1, #1098 of 1541 🔗

I’m not sure the virus is that different though. People are sequencing it all the time so we should know. I’ll see what I can find.

95856 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to JohnB, 1, #1099 of 1541 🔗

That’s interesting and reflects what some other doctors said a month or so ago. Reports from Italy, the UK and US I think.

95858 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark B, 2, #1100 of 1541 🔗

And ties in with how it seems to blow itself out after about 2-3 months in every country.

95901 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to JohnB, 1, #1101 of 1541 🔗

That’s just herd immunity.

95765 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, -29, #1102 of 1541 🔗

I guess this Glasgow Herald reader won’t be buying a lottery ticket: Thanks Colin, it’s good to know that Corona is not lethal. I wish I could write on here what I think of you and your idiotic statement.
I had Corona for 8 weeks, my cousin was in intensive care for 12 days.
My brothers father in law and his sister died from Corona in the same ward 4 days apart.
My uncle and two cousins died of it, yet none of them lived anywhere near each other.

As I said its good to know that in your opinion Corona is not lethal. Maybe it needs to devastate your family to change your mind.

95771 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Hammer Onats, 17, #1103 of 1541 🔗

No way is that person telling the truth

95775 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 10, #1104 of 1541 🔗

Ignore shills.

95781 ▶▶ Luckyluke1976, replying to Hammer Onats, 16, #1105 of 1541 🔗

All my friends, dogs and cats, neighbors and passers-by died of corona. Even the pigeons were falling off the sky. Sorry but your story sounds phony. Most of us here, at my work and all my friends do not know anyone that knows anyone that died of (or had) corona flu.
So either you are unbelievably unlucky to have incurred all those casualties around you (and I’m really sorry for you if that’s the case), or you have made things up knowing that you don’t need to prove it here.I strongly suspect the latter.

95785 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hammer Onats, 14, #1106 of 1541 🔗

To lose one family member, Mr Hammer Onats , may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose five looks like carelessness

95798 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to JohnB, 3, #1107 of 1541 🔗

Five out of how many? – a hundred extended family members perhaps.

When the national the mortality figure is less than 1 in a thousand Hammer’s family has been astonishingly misfortunate.

And who is Colin? and why this reference to the Glasgow Herald? Looks like a post originally drafted for elsewhere.

95803 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ned of the Hills, 7, #1108 of 1541 🔗

Looks like a standard bot response. Probably being posted all over Facebook, Twitter, Parler, etc.

95796 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #1109 of 1541 🔗

So WHAT ELSE WAS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? How OLD WERE THEY? Come on, lets us know that at least.

95804 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1110 of 1541 🔗

Don’t waste your time, it’s not a real person.

95826 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1111 of 1541 🔗

Their main underlying illness was that they were fictional.

95806 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Hammer Onats, 9, #1112 of 1541 🔗

It looks to me as though Hammer Onats has just copied a comment that he saw in the Glasgow Herald, and the comment was presumably in reply to something posted by ‘Colin’ in that paper. So nothing to do with Hammer Onats and his family and shared with us because it doesn’t quite ring true?

95839 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Edna, 1, #1113 of 1541 🔗

Hammer gonads would seen to be the answer here.

95869 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Edna, 1, #1114 of 1541 🔗

That is what I thought also.

95874 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1115 of 1541 🔗
96713 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Sarigan, #1116 of 1541 🔗


95809 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #1117 of 1541 🔗

You’re either the unluckiest man in the land or downright full of it.

95916 ▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Andy C, 2, #1118 of 1541 🔗

It’s not example of the idiocy that appears in newspaper forums – don’t shoot the messenger!

95929 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hammer Onats, #1119 of 1541 🔗

Your spoof was a little too successful Hammer Onats do you really see such outlandish claims on social media ?

95930 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1120 of 1541 🔗

Karen, it was a genuine comment I copied from The Herald. I should have made it clears I was mocking the poster. Cheers.

96714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Hammer Onats, #1121 of 1541 🔗

That’s awesome, Hammer. We should all have stories like that for these posters, no?

(I don’t doubt the guy knew someone with covid, though. A friend told me of a coworker whose wife got sick and recovered, and who now walks around in a shirt that says “my wife died of covid-19.”)

95910 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #1122 of 1541 🔗

Don’t get excited guys, I’m simply posting an example of the lying idiots that post on newspaper forums.

95965 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #1123 of 1541 🔗

They’re more than likely CCP or CybernNat bots just trying to play on the emotions and sucker more people in.

95925 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #1124 of 1541 🔗

Spoke to a chap today, just back to work (mental health) after shielding (diabetes).
He told me his dad had died of Covid. I asked how old ?
82, so I outlined the age profile of the dead.
I further asked ‘any underlying conditions?
No not really, just dementia.
Nobody had told him that dementia is one of the prime co-morbidities for death by Covid.

96711 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Hammer Onats, #1125 of 1541 🔗

That’s horrible! But masks are just as bad. I had a cousin whose ears fell off due to lost circulation from the elastic of his mask. The prosthetic ears he got were made of a material that his body rejected, which caused a horrible infection. That infection gave my cousin vertigo, and while he was quarantining in his home, he stumbled backward, crushing the knee of his pet pitbull, who, in it’s agony, lashed out at my poor aunt, ripping a gash in her throat. The ambulance arrived too late, and in his hurry, the EMT slipped on the pool of my dear aunt’s blood, smashing his head against a recently stuffed elk head that my uncle had just that day retrieved from the taxidermist. The horn impaled his scull and he was killed instantly. My uncle, in his grief over my aunt, shot himself with the very rifle he had used on the elk. The bullet was a full metal jacket and passed right through my uncle’s heart, out his back, through the window and into the head of a priest who was two houses down, performing an exorcism. Unfortunately, the demon had not yet been banished from the neighbor girl, but was emboldened. It caused her to arise from bed, and then to grasp her pet cat with both arms, and with it’s demonic strength, rip the cat in half! In the throes of it’s demonic laughter, the demon failed to notice the window now shattered by my uncle’s bullet. Tripping over the dead priest, the demon possessed girl fell from the window and onto the pavement below, snapping her neck.

But I suppose that guy still advocates mandatory masking.

95786 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 7, #1126 of 1541 🔗

I wonder if football might help. I can’t see either the rich clubs nor the fans putting up with empty stadiums for much longer. Fans might start asking “Why?”.

95816 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Aremen, 8, #1127 of 1541 🔗

Football clubs and sport in general, at the elite level, seems to have been taken over by virtue signalling folk. They may not believe what they come out with, but I think they wouldn’t want to be seen as being horrid or money-grabbing.

The fans are undoubtedly pissed off, at least some of them, but they don’t really have a voice, and they can watch it on the telly. Elite sport behind closed doors on TV is all about making life appear normal when it isn’t. Opium for the masses.

95828 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Julian, 5, #1128 of 1541 🔗

I suspect elite-level sport get most of their money from TV and advertising, rather than fan tickets, though this is just a guess. So, much like online shopping giants vs. high street shops and small businesses, it’s the medium- and small-scale sports clubs that lose out the most.

It definitely feels like there’s a strong element of “bread and circuses” in the push to get TV sport back up and running as soon as possible.

95872 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Drawde927, 3, #1129 of 1541 🔗

If you look at a stadium with a 60,000 capacity in the premier league. If the average ticket costs £50, then clubs are losing £3 million straight away, and that doesn’t include drinks, food, programmes, etc. Then their in the loss on hospitality at the stadium. You also, have the knock on affect for business in the local area, no one is going the pub after the match, no one popping in for fish and chips or a takeaway pre or post game, and then there is the local businesses that help to maintain the stadium.

The financial impact on a town or city is massive.

95887 ▶▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to JohnB, 1, #1130 of 1541 🔗

Look at my club for example spent best part of a billion quid building a new stadium and investing in the local infrastructure can’t see Daniel Levy waiting much longer without revenue, mind you I haven’t watched a game since the restart bending the knee for BLM done it for me and I’m not the only one

95893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1131 of 1541 🔗

Agreed, not going to watch any more football until that nonsense stops

95921 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to tonyspurs, #1132 of 1541 🔗

Surely the only way to stop that is to attend and boo the kneetakers or at least turn your back.

95951 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1133 of 1541 🔗

I honestly believe after talking to match going fans of different teams if those games had been played in front of the fans instead of behind closed doors it would of been a one off gesture

95963 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1134 of 1541 🔗

It’s the only way they have got away with it.

95941 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #1135 of 1541 🔗

Same here.The sight of Graeme Souness grovelling when the plane flew over Man City was enough for me.It is bad enough when the women footballers are on
the panel.Sky sports subscription cancelled.

95962 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1136 of 1541 🔗

Same here, although I think some of the women footballer like Alex Scott are good pundits as they don’t have history with a team like Souness, Carragher or Neville, so aren’t biased.

95889 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, 1, #1137 of 1541 🔗

Agreed, yet clubs do not protest (publicly). Protest from business has been minimal – the odd individual, BA, Ryanair, but little else I have seen. Have the bosses bought into the narrative, or are they just afraid to look greedy and heartless? Either way, it doesn’t help us much.

95959 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 1, #1138 of 1541 🔗

I think it’s because all these clubs and companies are so woke now, and afraid to go outside of the wokeists, otherwise the media jump on them.

96029 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Drawde927, #1139 of 1541 🔗

Ian Holloway of Grimsby Town (Football League 2) said that about 40% of their income is from gate receipts and a further 10% from hiring out the function suite. So they need to get the crowds back to have any long-term future. In the top divisions gate receipts are less significant as they get a lot from TV and sponsorships. I think it was announced recently that levels below National Leagues North & South (the sixth tier) are regarded as recreational sport and public attendance will be allowed. So it might be Matlock Town or Ilkeston Town for me in the new season!

95938 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Basics, 2, #1141 of 1541 🔗

It certainly does match– that is one of the primers they’re looking for and it is in chromosome 8 like he says!

One of the comments on there pointed out that since the test is RT-PCR it’s only looking for RNA, not DNA. But if that gene happened to be being transcribed the test might find it… idk what that gene is actually for.

Also most of the tests are looking for a couple of matches not just one. So it could be a rare source of false positives.

95944 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to guy153, #1142 of 1541 🔗

Thanks for answering guy. It’s helpful to get a knowledgeable opinion. It’s quite a finding in thst case then.

95792 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 12, #1143 of 1541 🔗

Someone told me yesterday Boris was in Scotland. However I’ve just heard his father Stanley was holding a birthday bash in Greece. We’ll be waiting to see if he sports a tan on his next photo shoot op.

95805 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #1144 of 1541 🔗

they keep mentioning that greece is next in line for quarantine (aka house arrest). they announced croatia today i think – if boris is in greece maybe they are waiting for him to return before introducing the quarantine…??? Just a thought!!
I’m keep a close eye on greece as i may book last minute hol to a quiet spot early sept – but not sure of the travel hassle with masks etc and likely quarantine on returning which as i work at home is not really too much of an issue.
But two weeks away from this nasty little island to swim in turquoise seas and bit of windsurfing and red wine could be a winner!! 🙂

95863 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sue, 3, #1145 of 1541 🔗

Greece looks like it will make the cut this week as cases have dropped below the ridiculous 20 per 100,000. Most ‘cases’ are in Mykonos so one would hope for a non-blanket ban if they do add Greece. Perhaps some common sense but we know there is none of that. Croatia looks set to be added to the list later today. I have clients flying out on Saturday but they are going any way if the flights don’t cancel.

95870 ▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1146 of 1541 🔗

Depends i Stanley is in Mykonos….

95876 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1147 of 1541 🔗

thanks offlands – greece is so spread out between all the islands etc but if there is a quarantine you know it’ll apply to the whole country regardless as rationality or common sense doesn’t enter into the equation by our controllers.
Sounds in greece they’ve imposed some restrictions on some islands but not too onerous e.g. restaurants/bars having to close by midnight – may piss off some younger folks but not too restrictive. We’ll see will have to make a decision in next week or so…

95795 Andy C, replying to Andy C, 15, #1148 of 1541 🔗

I’ve just got home from Marks and Spencer. Everybody looked so miserable there except for the one other unmasked customer I saw. Fortunately, there were no dirty looks or snide comments to report this time, though.

95814 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Andy C, 13, #1149 of 1541 🔗

This is definitely a recurring theme today. The masked looking totally dejected and miserable.

Reckon this is one of the psychological effects of prolonged wearing that the government were banking on to demoralise the population. Evil genius.

95817 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 22, #1150 of 1541 🔗

there is NO OTHER REASON to force mask wearing. It is to demoralise people. It’s psychological torture. We are in Guantanamo bay.

95815 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Andy C, 13, #1151 of 1541 🔗

Is it time for my Masks & Spenders joke? No? OK then.

96083 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Achilles, #1152 of 1541 🔗

Argh you beat men to it!!

95820 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Andy C, 17, #1153 of 1541 🔗

I just got back fro click and collecting at Sainsburies, a little blond woman in a 4X4 was loading in her shopping from the C+C and she was wearing a mask and gloves..what the fuck is wrong with people??????????

95892 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1154 of 1541 🔗

this is a very good question

96234 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to anon, #1155 of 1541 🔗

Well, two kinds if people use CandC, or rather, one type of person and one type of zombie.
The person is so nauseated by the faceless zombie ghouls in the store that s/he opts for CandC.
The zombie thinks that every other zombie in the store will be breathing instant death on him/ her, so opts for CandC with mask and gloves.
I’m the one chatting to the CandC staff while I load up – nice set of youngsters at my Tesco’s.

95894 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1156 of 1541 🔗

Gov’t: “Masks have a slight effect in protecting others.”

Sheep: “Gov’t say we will die if we don’t wear masks, it must have got worse…”

95823 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Andy C, 8, #1157 of 1541 🔗

On a slightly more positive note, I visited my local general store/mini supermarket (independent) this morning and saw two other non-masked shoppers for the first time (no badges or lanyards either).

95851 ▶▶ dorset dumpling, replying to Andy C, 2, #1158 of 1541 🔗

Also been to an M&S today, no staff wearing muzzles, a couple with visors and the obligatory screens. Saw a couple of other bare faced adults but, more worryingly, young children masked up

95852 ▶▶ James Lawrence, replying to Andy C, 5, #1159 of 1541 🔗

Surely that should be ‘Masks and Spencer’ ARF!

95912 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Andy C, #1160 of 1541 🔗

Good, I hope they get depression

96016 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Andy C, #1161 of 1541 🔗

Aldi this morning, all customers masked except for me and a young Asian woman. Most staff masked though some just below the nose. I went to a checkout being opened for use, nice lady on the checkout started with mask, pulled it down below nose, then maybe noticing me unmasked she pulled it down below her mouth. Small victory, two humans interacting normally.

96082 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Andy C, #1162 of 1541 🔗

Masks and Spencer ;-D

95821 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 19, #1163 of 1541 🔗

My SiL has just posted on her fb page:
Should the Scottish Government pandemic briefings continue?
Silly SiL voted yes.
Here’s what her friend posted:
Definitely yes – they are the only ones where you get clear directions and answers.

God help us all!

95908 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1164 of 1541 🔗

Pretty sure I persuaded 3 people today that the government are lying to us in collusion with the press.

96321 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #1165 of 1541 🔗

Keep up the good work. SiL is a lost cause.

95825 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #1166 of 1541 🔗

In OZ apparently children need to be vaccinated to have childcare etc. So vaccination verification to live your life seems to be what they are leading to, how can the Pharma industry ie Gates etc have got such a hold on lives.

95834 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Dan Clarke, 11, #1167 of 1541 🔗

Far too many of the Worlds leaders have their “price” it would seem, plus they clearly have zero humanity/soul. Now I like being as comfortably off as the next person but could not imagine selling out my own Countrymen (imperfect as they may be) for ANY price. Maybe that’s why I’m not a politician?

95884 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to KBuchanan, 4, #1168 of 1541 🔗

There are huge stakes involved here. Trillions are passing hands. People murder each other for a tenner. I wouldn’t be surprised if very nasty threats are being issued regarding families etc.

I know somebody who had his children’s lives threatened over a business deal. I also know somebody else who threatened somebody’s children’s lives for a ransom. He went to jail. (He’s not a friend or anything. I did business with him once and then somebody told me what he did!)

These were for relatively small sums of money. What would go on for trillions?

96170 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1169 of 1541 🔗

Maybe this is why a lot of media focus has been shifted to Australia – they’ve decided it will be easier to enforce the CV vaccine there, since other vaccinations in order to obtain certain services are already mandatory. Once it is mandatory in one major country – especially an English-speaking one- it will be easier to ram it through elsewhere – or maybe that is Gates’ reasoning anyway…?

95830 Ewan Duffy, 9, #1170 of 1541 🔗

Shopping in Lidl yesterday (Dublin) and other than children, was the only non-mask wearer in the entire store 🙁 I also felt like the only grown up!

On the work front, the company I work for has pushed back our return to the office date from 1st September to 5th October.

95838 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 26, #1171 of 1541 🔗

A visit to the swimming pool in 2020: Drive to pool. Mask off. Enter reception. Mask on. Get changed. Mask off. Swim. Pop out for a wee. Mask on/off?! Swim. Mask off. Get changed. Mask on. Sit down in swimming pool cafe. Mask off. Get up to order food. Mask on. Eat food. Mask off. Leave through reception. Mask on. Step outside. Mask off. Go home. Cry.

95842 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Achilles, 5, #1172 of 1541 🔗

That just sums up the ludicrousness of it all, does’t it? Hope you enjoyed your swim though 🙂

95843 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Edna, 8, #1173 of 1541 🔗

I’m afraid it was purely imaginary as I won’t be going swimming until the madness is over!

95844 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Achilles, 4, #1174 of 1541 🔗

Ah, I see! I don’t blame you at all!

95850 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Achilles, 1, #1175 of 1541 🔗

Was thinking of starting swimming again (local leisure centre). Are all sports facilities mask-mandatory now, except while doing sports?

95853 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Julian, 2, #1176 of 1541 🔗

I don’t know but of course what we’ve found here is that different establishments seem to take wildly different approaches to the same guidelines, often exceeding them, so I think you can only know by contacting the leisure centre.

95896 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Julian, 2, #1177 of 1541 🔗

Doesn’t matter. Just go in without a mask.

95877 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Achilles, 1, #1178 of 1541 🔗

I’ve really missed the swimming, especially taking the kids along. The best time and easiest parenting.

95857 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Achilles, 4, #1179 of 1541 🔗

They are trying to drive us mad! Because they are mad.
The mask thing is a total joke, so IMO the best thing to do is just treat it like a joke.

Which you seem to be doing.

Please don’t let the mask madness keep you away from swimming. One of the best things you can do for both mind and body, IMO. Don’t let them win! At least the pool and the cafe are open! That is something!

95897 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Jane, 4, #1180 of 1541 🔗

I’m not so sure that’s the best approach. I don’t want to support the “new normal” because then it will become permanent. I’d rather stay away from places that enforce the masks etc and go to places where it is not required/enforced (like my local cafe instead of Greggs) – as harsh as it is, I think the only way to make things change back is to ensure the “new normal” does not work.

95950 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to zacaway, 7, #1181 of 1541 🔗

I agree. Other than for absolute essentials, I won’t participate in Covid theatre. I won’t eat inside a restaurant when you must wear a mask to walk to your table and then can take it off. Mask back on again if you need the washroom and back off again at the table. And then back on again to leave the restaurant. This virus is far more clever than the idiots who make the rules it seems.

96317 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to zacaway, #1182 of 1541 🔗

It’s important to be seen without a mask whenever possible. Triggers others to copy you.

95895 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Achilles, 8, #1183 of 1541 🔗

What an obedient virus. It’s so intelligent – knowing at what points to leave you alone.

95898 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Achilles, 10, #1184 of 1541 🔗

my kids swimming classes started 3 weeks ago. week 1. wait outside in masks, teacher comes out, file in 1 by 1 etc

week 3 – no masks, no waiting, everything back to absolute normal. the leisure centre is a haven of sanity.

95900 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Achilles, 5, #1185 of 1541 🔗

A woman told me of taking her child swimming, among ther things she said no showers allowed.
Last time I went to a public pool you Had to take a shower or no entry because of The Germs. Has Covid seen The Germs off too ?

95956 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1186 of 1541 🔗

Covid is the king (or queen!) of all germs! We bow to Covid. Apparently hospitals don’t acknowledge any other germs either — unless you have Covid, you’re on your own.

95860 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1187 of 1541 🔗

Coronavirus: Millions of bees starve to death as beekeepers held up at COVID-19 checkpoints
“Kang said after the new lockdown was first announced he assumed that beekeepers would be treated as essential workers and allowed to travel freely to do their jobs as they had during alert level 4 earlier this year.
However, beekeepers currently need a letter from the Ministry of Health to prove they have been granted permission to travel.”

95861 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to swedenborg, 11, #1188 of 1541 🔗

Bees pollinate our food supply.

Another front in the total war against humanity. Fuck me these guys are serious.

95867 ▶▶ Edna, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1189 of 1541 🔗

The utter stupidity of this regulation is really beyond belief. If the people of NZ applaud the NZ government in doing this, then they all deserve what happens to them (possibly no food next year).

95871 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Edna, 7, #1190 of 1541 🔗

Only it won’t be them who suffer. New Zealand is relatively rich, so no doubt they’ll import food, pushing up global prices and leading poorer nations to take the pain.

95881 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Andrew Fish, 7, #1191 of 1541 🔗

Very true. Another casualty of the First World’s obsession with this damned virus.

96314 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, #1192 of 1541 🔗

Apparently this is a related article:

Liquid sugar. Definitely a treat but hardly an essential food item.

95878 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 8, #1193 of 1541 🔗

I’ve just seen this tweet of a young child who has taped his face up.


I find this extremely disturbing, and everybody should be ashamed for allowing our children to become this paranoid that they are now doing this.

6 months ago, you would be very concerned if a child was doing this, now it is normal.

95880 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 5, #1194 of 1541 🔗

When he tries to pull the tape of…he will only do this ONCE

95883 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 5, #1195 of 1541 🔗

Gonna end up with a whole heap of mental health issues in a few years time.

95906 ▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to JohnB, 2, #1196 of 1541 🔗

He’ll probably join the LibDems.

95891 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 1, #1197 of 1541 🔗

Used to do that as a dare at school usually on the arms, sometimes more sensitive places but never once the face.

95922 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to JohnB, 9, #1198 of 1541 🔗

That is horrible. It has been really hard to educate my son that, whatever the MSM say, there is nothing to worry about. Luckily, we are now at the stage of joking about it all. We shared a laugh at the “return to school” handbook emailed to us today. I am not blaming the school – they have to be seen to impose this long and paranoid list of precautions. However, it is heartening to know that my son and his friends are already texting each other about the best ways to get round any restrictions and are exchanging views on who might be a “wettie” and actually take things seriously.

95948 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Jenny, 4, #1199 of 1541 🔗

I’m guessing that masks are not mandated at your son’s school? They are in my province for grades 4 and up, but there’s a fair bit of pressure to extend the mandate to all children. I’d be keeping my kids out of school if I still had young ones. My university child will have to mask up but at least her classes are only 1 hour long and only 2 of the professors are even coming back to teach in person. My eldest is a student teacher and is supposed to be in the classroom 2 days a week. I’m hoping she does her practicum online as I hate the idea of her having to wear one all day and policing kids who ought not be wearing one. Makes my blood boil.

96002 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jenny, 1, #1200 of 1541 🔗

Good for them. Children’s peer pressure knows no bounds. I remember doing what parents and teachers told me to, usually, but only because I had to.
The only people whose Approval I saught were my schoolmates.

96309 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #1201 of 1541 🔗

Trying to copy his mum?

95886 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 24, #1202 of 1541 🔗

On the bright side, lunchtime visit to the convenience store.
Let an unmasked (=um) woman out of the door, um guy at the counter, 2 um ladies in the post office area, 2 staff likewise. I caused an unrelated delay and when I turned to go there 3 um people calmly waiting.
We looked at each other in some confusion.
100% non compliance YAY !

95955 ▶▶ watashi, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1203 of 1541 🔗

I want to shop there!
In my town today it was market day, so fairly busy. Also sunny but that didn’t seem to bother those going muzzled (a fairly large percentage I would say)
I was the only one unmuzzled in pet shop and card shop, which had a flock of muzzled ones in. No one asked, except in library, was pleased to tell library lady (not muzzled) that I was exempt. Lots of people giving me and my 3 unmuzzled young ones a very wide berth. Only encountered 4 pavement jumpers though. Maybe slightly down on last week?

96306 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #1204 of 1541 🔗

Huge smiles all round I hope!

95890 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 13, #1205 of 1541 🔗

Passed a bus while stopping at lights. All passengers masked apart from young mother with her baby. Good for her. A child needs to see its mother’s smile.

95902 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1206 of 1541 🔗

She wasn’t glued to her phone I hope

95915 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to karenovirus, 6, #1207 of 1541 🔗

No not at all – the opposite – interacting and playing with her child.

95907 wendyk, 9, #1208 of 1541 🔗

Another anecdote reflecting the sheer Blue-Peterish craziness which prevails up here,thanks to the latest diktat from Holyrood: I’ve just spoken to a local beautician who runs what was until March ,a very successful, long established salon, with many loyal customers.

All facial treatments which require access to the mouth, cheeks,chin and neck have been suspended, masks now being mandatory. Consequently, 60-70% of her business has vanished, and the therapist who works with her is now on a 3 day week.

The trainee who was longing to come back on a part time basis cannot do so for the foreseeable future.

Needless to say, these rules do not apply to beauty salons in England.

Added to the farcical constraints placed on dental practices, which I wrote about recently, this indicates the depths to which normal business life has now sunk, all thanks to She Who Must Be Obeyed and the Holyrood Heidbangers.

How will we ever escape from this ?

The gauleiters in Holyrood on their protected salaries ned to do some serious thinking. What a hope!!

I’m disgusted.

95913 Awkward Git, 6, #1209 of 1541 🔗

Feeling really arsey after reading what the WTTC has written to Governments so sent them an e-mail, some of which you’ve seen:

part 1

“I have just read your letter to governments and I must say what a lot of unmitigated, unsubstantiated, unfounded twaddle to put it mildly and you are not representing your member’s best interests.

The letter by Gloria Guevara, WTTC President & CEO https://wttc.org/COVID-19/Government-Hub/Global-coordination-to-save-the-sector

I travel extensively for business and pleasure, or I used to until March 2020 anyway, spending up to 10 months away from home a year and during my enforced time at home have followed “government science” very closely and the longer this farce goes on the more out of step with reality most Government’s actions and their “science” are becoming.

Your measures will not entice me to travel unless I absolutely must as they go against any sort of enjoyable experience that we all like to have on vacation.

Your first 3 lines and my rebuttals:

Wearing a mask: This should be mandatory on all modes of transport throughout the entire traveller journey, as well as when visiting any interior venue and in locations where there is restricted movement which results in close personal contact and required physical distancing cannot be maintained. According to medical evidence, such measures can reduce the risk of the spread by up to 92%.

To date there have been zero Randomised Control Trials that I can find that show mask wearing has anything other than either a negligible effect or zero effect in stopping any virus but there is mounting evidence that shows an increased risk of detrimental effects on the wearer.

The Government of the UK cannot supply any scientific evidence to support their mask wearing legislation and neither can any other authority including by FOI requests.

Here are 15 different studies over 40 years that show the ineffectiveness of masks in a medical setting:

Neil Orr’s study , published in 1981 in the Annals of the Royal College of Surgeons of England. Their conclusion: “ It would appear that minimum contamination can best be achieved by not wearing a mask at all ” and that wearing a mask during surgery “ is a standard procedure that could be abandoned .””

Here is the original study published on the NIH website so it’s official:
Also there are these studies:

  • Ritter et al. , in 1975, found that “ the wearing of a surgical face mask had no effect upon the overall operating room environmental contamination .”
  • Ha’eri and Wiley , in 1980, applied human albumin microspheres to the interior of surgical masks in 20 operations. At the end of each operation, wound washings were examined under the microscope. “ Particle contamination of the wound was demonstrated in all experiments .”
  • Laslett and Sabin , in 1989, found that caps and masks were not necessary during cardiac catheterization. “ No infections were found in any patient, regardless of whether a cap or mask was used ,” they wrote. Sjøl and Kelbaek came to the same conclusion in 2002.
  • In Tunevall’s 1991 study , a general surgical team wore no masks in half of their surgeries for two years. After 1,537 operations performed with masks, the wound infection rate was 4.7%, while after 1,551 operations performed without masks, the wound infection rate was only 3.5%.
  • A review by Skinner and Sutton in 2001 concluded that “ The evidence for discontinuing the use of surgical face masks would appear to be stronger than the evidence available to support their continued use.
  • Lahme et al. , in 2001, wrote that “ surgical face masks worn by patients during regional anaesthesia, did not reduce the concentration of airborne bacteria over the operation field in our study. Thus they are dispensable .”
  • Figueiredo et al. , in 2001, reported that in five years of doing peritoneal dialysis without masks, rates of peritonitis in their unit were no different than rates in hospitals where masks were worn.
  • Bahli did a systematic literature review in 2009 and found that “ no significant difference in the incidence of postoperative wound infection was observed between masks groups and groups operated with no masks.
  • Surgeons at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, recognizing the lack of evidence supporting the use of masks, ceased requiring them in 2010 for anesthesiologists and other non-scrubbed personnel in the operating room. “ Our decision to no longer require routine surgical masks for personnel not scrubbed for surgery is a departure from common practice. But the evidence to support this practice does not exist ,” wrote Dr. Eva Sellden.

part 2 to follow

95917 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1210 of 1541 🔗

Part 2:

  • Webster et al. , in 2010, reported on obstetric, gynecological, general, orthopaedic, breast and urological surgeries performed on 827 patients. All non-scrubbed staff wore masks in half the surgeries, and none of the non-scrubbed staff wore masks in half the surgeries. Surgical site infections occurred in 11.5% of the Mask group, and in only 9.0% of the No Mask group.
  • Lipp and Edwards reviewed the surgical literature in 2014 and found “ no statistically significant difference in infection rates between the masked and unmasked group in any of the trials .” Vincent and Edwards updated this review in 2016 and the conclusion was the same.
  • Carøe , in a 2014 review based on four studies and 6,006 patients, wrote that “ none of the four studies found a difference in the number of post-operative infections whether you used a surgical mask or not .”
  • Salassa and Swiontkowski , in 2014, investigated the necessity of scrubs, masks and head coverings in the operating room and concluded that “ there is no evidence that these measures reduce the prevalence of surgical site infection .”
  • Da Zhou et al. , reviewing the literature in 2015, concluded that “ there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination .”

If they do not work in a controlled medical environment used by trained personnel how will their use by the general public work?

There are plenty more studies that can be read and recently the world’s leading epidemiologists issued a statement challenging Governments on this issue and said that masks were not effective for stopping the spread of viruses.

Please explain the rising numbers of bacterial lung infections, mouth infections and what US dentists have nicknamed “mask mouth” that are appearing since the start of the worldwide drive to get populations to wear masks plus the increasing psychological feelings of detachment from society that mask wearers feel. I look forward to your explanation.

Please explain why countries that have been wearing masks for longer than the UK and in more places than the UK still have rising numbers of “positive tests”. Surely if masks worked as you claim then cases should drop to zero and stay there within weeks of the commencement of general mask wearing?

Where did you get the 92% figure from?

Quote from the 2019 WHO publication that has never been superseded, in the section about mask wearing:

“there is no evidence that this is effective in reducing transmission”

Mask wearing is purely political decision making and has no basis is published scientific fact as of date.

Testing and contact tracing: We need governments to invest and agree on extensive, rapid, and reliable testing, ideally with results available in as quick as 90 minutes, and at a low cost, before departure and/ or after arrival (symptomatic and asymptomatic would-be travellers), supported by effective and agreed contact tracing tools. The application of one or multiple tests, with the second after five days, will help to isolate infected people.

Again, from th e 2019 WHO publication that has never been superseded: “Active contact tracing is not recommended in general because there is no obvious rationale for it in most Member States. Quality fo evidence very low”

Quarantine for positive tests only: Quarantine for healthy travellers, which only serves to damage the economy, should not be necessary if testing is in place before departure and/or on arrival, and effective containment measures are taken five days later. This can replace blanket quarantine in a more targeted and effective way significantly reducing the negative impact on jobs and the economy.

Recently I received a FOI request back from the UK Department of Health and Social care about this very subject so here is what they told me:

My question:

-supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.

The answer:

SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). Patients can have SARS-CoV-2 RNA before onset of illness, during the illness and after resolution of symptoms (all variable periods). The result has to be taken into context of symptoms present.


Part 3 to follow

95947 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1211 of 1541 🔗

A couple of things…first, what most people don’t know about masks in hospital settings, particularly in the OR, is that there is more oxygen being pumped into the air to compensate for the masks. Second, I made the mistake of trying to present facts on a New York Times thread yesterday and cited the only RCT on medical vs. cloth masks that was published in the BMJ in 2015 (cloth masks are rubbish) and one of the mask zealots linked to a recent “opinion” piece in said journal by the original authors who have now come out and said the public should wear masks. Their own study was very clear that neither type of mask prevented the spread of viruses (though medical masks were better than cloth) among HCW who use PPE properly, and yet now they are clearly politicizing the issue or have been pressured to contradict their own work. This is really scary.

95971 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #1212 of 1541 🔗

I know I’m pissing in the wind but I’m feeling really belligerent today, it keeps me away from the TV plus it’s my way of fighting back as at the moment going out and doing violence is not the right thing to do.

It may come to it in coming weeks/months but not at present.

95991 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1213 of 1541 🔗

It wasn’t a mistake trying to present facts, it made you feel better so its therapy or something similar.

You never know, one person may read your comment and research further.

I found out a long time ago you cannot change a person’s mind by facts or force or browbeating but you can lead them to information that they then may read and inquire further and change their own minds.

Trying to change people’s opinions is like pushing a balloon through wet cement, most times you will just burst the balloon trying but just occasionally you can make a small impression that lasts once the cement goes hard and just before the balloon pops.

96020 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1214 of 1541 🔗

Don’t fight with logic – fight first with emotion.

If you are supporter of having everyone wear masks you:

  • Support people (including granny) dying alone
  • Support medieval dentistry
  • Support child abuse
  • Support medical negligence
  • Support the destruction of your local economy and pension

I’m sure you can think of others.

Use that first and then use logic when there’s a chink. You must engage the limbic brain before anything. Don’t feel bad that you have to resort to such tactics – you did not initiate engagement

96227 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 1, #1215 of 1541 🔗

Are happy to allow the needless deaths of cancer sufferers.
Are happy to banish every kind of collective celebration from society.
Are happy to turn human beings into faceless ghouls.
Want to see an end to trust and co-operation among human beings.

95918 Awkward Git, 4, #1216 of 1541 🔗

Part 3:

They also provided a link to a document by Health Technology Wales which in answer to this question:

– the official policy/guidance from DHSC to the various bodies who are following the above policy. I can confirm that the Department holds information relevant to your request. As the information held by the Department is in the public domain, we will under Section 21 of the FOI Act (information accessible to the applicant by other means) refer you to the published source, a summary of evidence on the accuracy of the test,


It does include a few notable gems such as (the paper’s original comments in blue with their updates in umber and with my notes in red):

We identified 39 individual studies and one pooled analysis reporting outcomes including diagnostic accuracy, detection rates and the time taken to obtain test results. We carried out quality assessment of the studies and judged the majority to be at risk of bias in one or more aspect of their design or conduct, which means their results may not be reliable. So not too accurate then these studies?

Some studies did not include methods of confirmatory/differential diagnosis to validate the test results obtained (e.g. the proportion of likely false positive and negative results). A pooled analysis estimated the sensitivity of an initial RT-PCR test result to be 89%, using results of repeated RT-PCR as the reference standard. So does this mean that there is an estimated 11% false result?

There are important gaps in the available evidence on the effectiveness of tests for the presence of SARS-CoV-2. Studies of virus testing in asymptomatic patients, or in specific populations such as healthcare workers are limited in number and there is no evidence on the validated diagnostic performance of the tests beyond their use in the hospital setting. So pretty useless then?

a true assessment of the accuracy of RT-PCR test results is very challenging, and using these RT-PCR for validation mean the same issues apply to the results of antibody tests studied in this way. so the test has lots of problems with accuracy and the antibody test cannot be used for doublechecking the results due to these inaccuracies?

So basically as admitted by the DHSC they are using tests that are “unreliable” to say the least, have no reference standard to double check the accuracy against and that have results that means nothing medically?

And yet the Governments of the world still pump out the continuous propaganda that whole swathes of the population have to be put into isolation and incarceration based on these tests and results.

An explanation would be very much appreciated by myself and many other people as to why you think a “positive test” requires quarantine of that person and possibly persons they have been in contact with as there has been absolutely nothing coming from Government for months now that makes any kind of sense.

95924 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 10, #1217 of 1541 🔗


Considering our apalling local rag has pushed the fear porn line continually since the start this is actually a reasonably well-balanced piece. I’ve noticed that most of their recent doomster articles have generally been met with widespread derision online so maybe they’re adopting a more nuanced approach.

Also interesting to read the total disconnect between front line medical personnel and the unelected public health quangocracy. For the PHE goons and local authority gauleiters the “second wave” is now their sole reason to exist and is thus presented as fact regardless. This no longer about public health but just a massive arse- covering excercise.

Sadly there is a high level meeting between these morons and Hancock taking place today to discuss which naughty step measures can be put in place to avoid a local lockdown here. Seems as though this time they’re going to get all their ducks in a row to prevent the backlash they got from Leicester and Greater Manchester.

96302 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to LGDTLK, #1218 of 1541 🔗

Dr Ron Daniels, an Intensive care consultant at Birmingham Hospital:
“The amount of testing is going up, so there are more cases. The positivity rate is also going up (the proportion of people testing positive, proportionate to the number of tests). But there are no deaths, and very few people becoming critically ill, even five weeks after lockdown measures were eased,” he said.
“There may be more cases in the community, but people are not getting sick.”

Let’s hope the MSM are starting to post more stuff like this!

95926 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 16, #1219 of 1541 🔗

On my fairly regular visits to local Morrison’s-no alternative here-I’m the only bare faced customer.

A few of the till ladies aren’t gagged either, but everyone else looks utterly miserable.

No eye contact, facial expressions impossible to interpret,so low level distrust and anxiety, compounded by discomfort.

Another acquaintance told me yesterday about her mounting skin problems; mask induced dermatitis.

Is this conducive to normality ,trust and optimal mental and physical well being? No, it isn’t!!

95932 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendyk, 17, #1220 of 1541 🔗

No it isn’t it’s just sick. Depraved. It’s evil. It’s destructive to humanity. It’s corrosive. It’s toxic.

Seriously. If my behaviour caused so much harm to others around me I would rightly so be judged to be worthy of widespread shunning and ostracisation.

95999 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1221 of 1541 🔗

Evil. Diabolical.
If anybody still doesn’t believe there’s such a thing as pure evil, they only need to go round one of these zombie shops. Antechambers to Hell. Like the schools described in another post. At least the old Catholic doctrine offered infants a gentler non-life in limbo.

95933 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to wendyk, 17, #1222 of 1541 🔗

NOT Normal. I will never be convinced that this is “new” normal or any kind of normal. It’s dehumanizing and humiliating, but I guess that’s the point. I hate to say it, but we need for huge numbers of people to develop health problems from constant mask wearing.

95957 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to wendyk, 12, #1223 of 1541 🔗

I’d call it psychological warfare being conducted upon the public, all in the name of protecting them.
“I’m beating you for your own good. No, I’m not enjoying it.” (Much).

95994 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to wendyk, 7, #1224 of 1541 🔗

Have just been to their local branch myself.
Bad News : Every other customer was masked as were 50% of the staff
Good News : No one way system, no one seemed bothered about distancing, no one dodged me, no dirty looks and a happy moment when a member of staff mopping up around the perpetually leaking fridges removed his mask, smiled and gave me a thumbs up.

95928 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1225 of 1541 🔗

off topic a bit but Bill gates getting flustered:



We’re getting to him now.

95937 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1226 of 1541 🔗

Oh, he’s a real piece of work that one. If you want to get to know him even better, watch Who is Bill Gates? on the Corbett Report web site or Plandemic 2 on the London Real web site.

95985 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 6, #1227 of 1541 🔗

He’s a real nasty piece of shit.

If I met him in the street I’d risk life in jail just to wipe that smug smirk of his fucking face – along with some others if I met them – I feel that belligerent today.

96039 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Awkward Git, #1228 of 1541 🔗


96133 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #1229 of 1541 🔗


Alleged picture of Gates as a child. Quite probably a victim of generational abuse.

95940 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1230 of 1541 🔗

This was from a couple of weeks ago, I wonder if the news anchor still has her job.

96055 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1231 of 1541 🔗

Nora O’Donnell is a pretty big name so she’s still got her job. Pretty impressive for the MSM.

95931 kf99, 8, #1232 of 1541 🔗

The future…

“crackle..we’re now arriving at Glasgow Sturgeon Street..”

“Mummy, why is it called that?”

“In honour of our first president all those years ago. Do you know what she was famous for?”

“Oh – was it for getting rid of that nasty virus that was killing everyone?”

“Yes, that’s right. We can go and look at her statue if you like…”

95934 Thinkaboutit, replying to Thinkaboutit, 15, #1233 of 1541 🔗

Perhaps a glimmer of hope. Just emailed my local hairdresser re their mask policy. My previous hairdresser interpreted all the rules to the nth degree and it terrified me. Abuse, I call it.
The new hairdresser said me not being masked will be fine. I’ll take a peek in later and make an appointment.

96086 ▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Thinkaboutit, 2, #1234 of 1541 🔗

My dentist also said it was fine me not being masked! 🙂

95945 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 18, #1235 of 1541 🔗


And here we have it. The largest metrpolitan area in the country is now on the naughty step thanks to about 300 “cases” in a population of 2.6m. No obvious hopitalisations or deaths but we have to be saved from ourselves. Please Toby can’t you and some of your like-minded colleagues get across this before it’s too late. I genuinely believe there’s enough scepticism locally to put a stop to rhis.

95968 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to LGDTLK, 8, #1236 of 1541 🔗

Sent my letter to Hancock and Hunt about testing to the Lord Mayors of Oldham, Birmingham, Leicester and Stoke-on-Trent.

They may actually read it and have some true facts to try and counter the stupidity coming from central Government and their Public Health Departments.

96044 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1237 of 1541 🔗

AG, can I suggest you include Andy ‘Shut the pubs’ Burnham, mayor of Greater Manchester? He’s a right killjoy.

96089 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1238 of 1541 🔗

Done just for the hell of it.

The mayor of the west midlands combined authority gets contacted via local councils it says on his website so that is done already.

96105 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1239 of 1541 🔗

Great stuff.

96259 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1240 of 1541 🔗

Sent to the Aberdeen City Council as well to stir up shit in Sturgeon Land.

95974 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to LGDTLK, 3, #1241 of 1541 🔗

Those 300 cases are the heroes creating the hard immunity need to protect the vulnerable.
Yeah internment sounds good.
Was this a local or central government decision?

95946 Margaret, 20, #1242 of 1541 🔗

Let’s hear it for the car and cycle enthusiasts. Just been into Halfords. Almost half of the customers were unmasked and most of the staff too. I’m hoping the more people see us coming and going normally without being challenged, the less they will end up wearing muzzles.

95949 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 55, #1243 of 1541 🔗

Well just had the arrangements for my daughters school this year. No contact sports, no assemblies, no singing, no group playing of musical instruments, no lunchtime or after school clubs, no overnight trips, no mixing with children from other years. 2 metre zone for teacher or teacher can wear a visor, one-way system, track & trace system.

Boris, Whitty, Ferguson, BBC et al. Just so you know, and for the removal of any doubt, you are scum.

95953 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Achilles, 11, #1244 of 1541 🔗

I am very rarely speechless.

95954 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Achilles, 15, #1245 of 1541 🔗

It’s bloody awful. An outrage. I do hope the us for them campaign and campaign about safe return to school works.

95958 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Achilles, 11, #1246 of 1541 🔗

I’d put money on schools not reopening. Unions have Borista by the balls and are squeezing hard.

95973 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 10, #1247 of 1541 🔗

I think ours will re-open and then promptly go to online as “cases” are reported. It’s a recipe for disaster.

95979 ▶▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 9, #1248 of 1541 🔗

Teachers will say how important it is that children are educated. Working hard with government to get the schools open. At the last minute it will be that unfortunately due to a very small but vital issue, they have to further extend their summer holidays on 100% pay.

96010 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 6, #1249 of 1541 🔗

You are not being fair to teachers. My relative is a teacher she is very distressed by being forced to teach online, she wants to be in the classroom with her pupils.

96012 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Kate, 8, #1250 of 1541 🔗

They need to vote in some more moderate union leaders.

96027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kate, 1, #1251 of 1541 🔗

Exactly. Stick the blame where it belongs – with this Tory government and its once darling narcissistic liar – intent on inculcating this incontinent fear in the whole population

96040 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to RickH, 3, #1252 of 1541 🔗

No, it’s not ‘The Tories’, that pisses me off. It’s all of them, every colour, every stripe, they are all to blame. Incompetent, lazy, corrupt and in some cases, downright evil!

Don’t be a child, they stopped caring about values years ago. I would vote for anyone who had any integrity no matter the political party.

96071 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to RickH, 2, #1253 of 1541 🔗

Hmmmm! FWIW I’ve always voted Tory as the least worst option (I actually support the “Leave Me the Fuck Alone” party). Not any more – my ballot paper will be spoiled from now on. But to claim the “evil Tories” are any different from the parties on the left – who demanded faster, harder and more draconian lockdowns in the style of Melbourne and New Zealand is somewhat disingenuous.

96119 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1254 of 1541 🔗

I understand that that’s what will happen here in the UK. Two ‘positive’ PCR tests and it will be called an outbreak and the school will be closed. BTW, this is not actually to do with unions, stupid as they are. MW

95990 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 6, #1255 of 1541 🔗

What he should do is sack all those unwilling to go back to school and behave as normal, i.e. pre-covidmania.

But he’s Boris, so he won’t.

95992 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 5, #1256 of 1541 🔗

Cant have him by the balls if he’s no where to be found.

96025 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Mark II, 2, #1257 of 1541 🔗

Or, his balls have been removed

95969 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Achilles, 10, #1258 of 1541 🔗

Can only register my disgust at what that school and others are choosing to do.

Not at all the point I know, but theres’s a lot of cost saving going on in removing that lot. I mention because we are all hearing how covid is causing public service debts to increase.

Another not the point but – what are teachers to do when physical intervention becomes required to prevent injury say. Children do have accidents, some of which can be prevented as soon as noticed.

96274 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1259 of 1541 🔗

Hopefully they’ll revert to their natural human instincts and forget about antisocial-distancing in the moment.

95972 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Achilles, 12, #1260 of 1541 🔗

We’ve got all that and mandatory masks too! Sounds more like prison than school, but since we’re all in prison now why leave the kids out? Let’s call it what it is: child abuse.

95989 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 9, #1261 of 1541 🔗

Unfortunately, aided and abetted by too many willing parents.

96031 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lms23, 7, #1262 of 1541 🔗

I completely agree — parents of young kids seem to be the biggest bedwetters of them all. No amount of “safety” seems to satisfy them. Between them and the teachers I don’t think there will be much school happening in person this year. And I’m not bashing teachers — many would go back in a heartbeat and some I know won’t go back because of mandatory masking. If I were a teacher I wouldn’t go back because of masking — for myself it’s a non-starter, and I wouldn’t take part in child abuse by policing the masking of children.

95996 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 11, #1263 of 1541 🔗

I never thought a Pink Floyd video would become reality but it looks like this coming school year will resemble this joyless classroom (but sitting farther apart)
comment image &f=1&nofb=1

96037 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Eddie, 2, #1264 of 1541 🔗

Eddie, brilliant!

96286 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Eddie, #1265 of 1541 🔗

We don’t need no thought control!
Very apt.

95976 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Achilles, 10, #1266 of 1541 🔗

Beyond bleak. I also understand that in many areas children’s professionals such as speech and language therapists, occupational therapists counsellors and psychologists will not be allowed in school this coming term. 2 friends have told me their employers forbid them going on site because it is not safe. Safe for whom? Apparently they can do their jobs via video. My friends disagree and feel they will be letting children down.

95984 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Achilles, 5, #1267 of 1541 🔗

I wonder how much of that is compulsory, I.e. a rule from government and how much of it is guidance?

95988 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Achilles, 8, #1268 of 1541 🔗

As per my comment regarding masks: Its psychological warfare against the population.

I’m not surprised, and had anticipated that it might be worse after reading the new school normal in Quebec.

96034 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lms23, 5, #1269 of 1541 🔗

All the provinces are caving in to the maskholes. Child abuse on a mass scale. Quebec and BC I thought might have bucked the trend, but alas they are seeming to capitulate as well.

96017 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Achilles, 8, #1270 of 1541 🔗

Utter utter scum – meanwhile private schools press on with minimal fuss and changes (my daughter attends one). What they are doing to state kids is just terrible

96069 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Richard, 3, #1271 of 1541 🔗

Completely agree. Son also at private school. Minimal fuss and changes – enough to, presumably, keep the insurers happy. What they are doing to most state school children is beyond cruel.

96024 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Achilles, 3, #1272 of 1541 🔗

So, nothing that may make the learning experience more enjoyable then.

96059 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Achilles, 8, #1273 of 1541 🔗

We got the “return to school handbook” through as well. In all fairness they have obviously done as little as they can get away with and I am impressed. They have also warned us that this is a boys’ prep school which is predominantly boarding so perfection cannot be expected – excellent! Son and his friends have been frantically texting each other on (a) how to break the rules; (b) who will be a “wettie” and want to stick to the rules; and (c) how to wind up those identified as “wetties” by terrifying them with fake coughing etc. I know I should take him to task for (a)-(c) but, instead, I am bursting with pride!

96064 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Jenny, 4, #1274 of 1541 🔗

Well done to your sons and his mates – fighting the good fight… There’ll be medals waiting for them after it’s all over, and they’ll have pride of place in the victory parade.

96219 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1275 of 1541 🔗

I’ll come and line the streets.

96272 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Achilles, #1276 of 1541 🔗

I suppose there is a tiny cherry in there if the kids don’t have to wear muzzles.

95952 Gerry Mandarin, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 18, #1277 of 1541 🔗

Went for a drink in MK. Partner signed herself honestly. They then explain one way system in pub.

order drinks from bar lad. Go to sit down. “Can’t sit there, too close to other people”. Where can we sit. Landlady looks around, “there is no-where free inside but you can drink outside in the rain.”. Can’t we just drink at the bar? that wasn’t allowed. Choice, In front of pub or garden. We chose the garden.. We then had to hand our drinks back to be poured into plastic beakers.

Not an experience I will be having again.

95964 ▶▶ hat man, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 3, #1278 of 1541 🔗

Worth saying which chain this pub belonged to, if it wasn’t a free house.

95977 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to hat man, 3, #1279 of 1541 🔗

Not sure if it was a chain. It’s one that is on the canal. Not going to identify it further as the landlady looked only mid 20’s and not her fault.

96103 ▶▶▶▶ hat man, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 2, #1280 of 1541 🔗

Landlady decides to enforce voluntary measures and it’s not her fault?

True, if the pubco decided for her, so I think it’s always helpful to know if the pub belonged to a chain and if so which one.

96269 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gerry Mandarin, #1281 of 1541 🔗

I’d have been inclined to give them their drinks back – out of the glass!

95961 PWL, replying to PWL, #1282 of 1541 🔗

Ever heard of ACE2? You should have, by now.
SARS-COV to ACE2 binding and the dangerous Covid-19 truth

95995 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to PWL, 1, #1283 of 1541 🔗

I hardly understood about 10% of that! I did try.

96275 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DressageRider, 1, #1284 of 1541 🔗

The idea is that some of the drugs people take to treat high blood pressure, diabetes and some other things might end up making Covid worse. It’s a plausible theory.

ACE2 is an enzyme on the surface of some cells whose job is to regulate your blood pressure down. It also happens to be the hole in the barbed wire fence which the SARS2 viruses use to get into cells.

The blood pressure drugs are also trying to lower your blood pressure by intervening in the feedback loop that ACE2 is part of. So you end up with more ACE2. And that means more places for the virus to infect your cells, which you would expect to mean you’re more likely to get pneumonia in the first place and that it’s likely to be worse.

It’s certainly true that we’ve seen a high correlation with high blood pressure and severe disease in Western countries where most people with high blood pressure are treating it. So it’s not actually that high any more, but there will be more ACE2.

ACE2 getting blocked by the viruses, and therefore not doing its job, may also be responsible for some of the oxidative stress and blood clotting issues that causes people to die. And people with high blood pressure or diabetes are more prone to this to start with. This wasn’t mentioned in that article but is a reason why those conditions might make Covid worse that has nothing to do with the medication.

96008 ▶▶ Kate, replying to PWL, #1285 of 1541 🔗

Virologists have been working hard over the past twenty years to get bat coronaviruses to attach to that very same receptor. Looks like they succeeded.

96255 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Kate, 1, #1286 of 1541 🔗

Human coronavirus NL63 has been infecting humans via ACE2 for about the last 1000 years.

96221 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PWL, #1287 of 1541 🔗

From the Science article there is perhaps some assistance to an answer to the question, can Covid-19 sufferers be asymptomatic? In the past, it has been reasoned hereabouts that infection must present itself in symptoms, otherwise there is no infection (i.e. the PCR test results generally produce false positives). Apparently, more than 90% of symptomatic cases will present viral pneumonitis, which shores up the implicit connection. That being said, around 80% of symptomatic cases recover without deterioration. And so the Science article confirms the fact that Covid-19, when it is not countered by an immune response, is a rare illness requiring hospitalisation to prevent deterioration to death, and so the ICU figures produced by ICNARC (where some 4400 people have died of Covid-19 in and after critical care) are indeed the best indicator of a real Covid-19 death toll.

96266 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #1288 of 1541 🔗

I wondered right from the beginning if prescribed medication made some people more susceptible. The BP drugs would fit the bill nicely.

95966 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 33, #1289 of 1541 🔗

It seems a number of members thought my Glasgow Herald post was an attempt to support the government’s stupidity. It was actually to show how stupid some posters on newspapers are.So, here is the post again, but this time with the robust reply!

The Post
“It’s good to know that Corona is not lethal. I wish I could write on here what I think of you and your idiotic statement.
I had Corona for 8 weeks, my cousin was in intensive care for 12 days.
My brothers father in law and his sister died from Corona in the same ward 4 days apart.
My uncle and two cousins died of it, yet none of them lived anywhere near each other.

As I said its good to know that in your opinion Corona is not lethal. Maybe it needs to devastate your family to change your mind.”

The Reply
“Give it a rest John, grow up and educate yourself. Everybody has Corona in their bodies if you amplify the results of the PCR test they are using. You are saying you have had SEVEN family members who had Covid-19 of which FIVE died except you and your cousin?
Let’s see if you’re confident and brave enough to list the names and ages of those who died as well as their underlying health conditions prior to death. The name of the hospital your cousin was in also please.
You cannot have a cold for eight weeks. The only thing you are suffering from John is hypochondria and attention deficit.”

95967 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Hammer Onats, 5, #1290 of 1541 🔗


95998 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #1291 of 1541 🔗

That’s some pretty bad luck. Five people in one family died of it. Counting aunts, uncles, cousins etc. 0 out of about 30 in my family have had it.

96052 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Cicatriz, #1292 of 1541 🔗

0 out of everyone in mine (40 plus people..in different countries)

96056 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to watashi, #1293 of 1541 🔗

John obviously got our share

96065 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1294 of 1541 🔗

A close relative released with it from hospital where they had been since lockdown due to newly diagnosed leukaemia. Was very unwell with it (2-3 weeks) but even with greatly compromised immune system survived. However one does wonder why if it was so deadly and it was caught in hospital they were released to infect the rest of the household? Who btw did not catch it.
None of this makes sense

96009 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Hammer Onats, 6, #1295 of 1541 🔗

That John sounds like a chap on my road,him and everyone in his family,who are spread out all over the uk,have had it,his daughter ended up in ICU.He apparently recovered just by going for a walk everyday !.To top it all he says he is a carer and has personally seen twenty people in my town die of it,funny how the ONS map shows a total of four deaths in the whole of my area.Needless to say,he doesn’t want to hear anything I have got to say,I now go out of my to avoid him !.

96074 ▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Paul, #1296 of 1541 🔗

A neighbour kept on about the number of deaths in this area until I pointed out that only one death from C19 had been registered on the ONS interactive map.
“What map?”
“The one on the ONS site on the internet”
A few days later she is now on about the number of deaths in a town 13 miles and a lot of countryside away!

96030 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #1297 of 1541 🔗

That socked it to him! He was probably a troll.

95970 karenovirus, 11, #1298 of 1541 🔗

Having problems with my cars brakes yesterday so phoned to book a preliminary investigation with Main Dealer.
He asked me if I would be waiting I replied
“I won’t have to wait outside will I?”
No sir you can use the waiting area but you’ll need a mask
Told him I’m medically exempt to which he replied ‘that’s fine’.

Used the sanitizer just to show willing, read the usual Covid rules, walked though the waiting area. 3 solo unmasked guys waiting each in his corner. Unmasked woman at Service Reception made no comment about masks as I handed her my key and took my corner in the waiting area.
Top marks so far.

Only downturn is the fearporn on the telly in the waiting area, BBC woman bleating on about Rising Cases.

Is spent much of today taking note of beeb Radio covid coverage, very strange full report tomorrow.


95978 tallandbald, replying to tallandbald, 26, #1299 of 1541 🔗

Enjoyed this comment on the Daily Fail article about why Doris has not given his adoring public the photo of his holiday like his predecessors have done before him.

“Come on. He isn’t in Scotland. How can anyone think, for a minute, that he is in a tent in Scotland in rain and gale force winds with his 3 month old baby? He’s off in the Caribbean, living it up on a private yacht benefitting from the largesse of people he has awarded contracts to. Can you image Winston Churchill disappearing for days on end during the war? Or Margaret Thatcher taking weeks off as Boris has since he became PM. Thatcher used to only get 3-4 hours sleep a night because the job of prime minister was so all demanding. Boris looks like he’s only awake 3-4 hours a day.”

95982 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to tallandbald, 7, #1300 of 1541 🔗

That’s definitely a great point made!

95983 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to tallandbald, 11, #1301 of 1541 🔗

Rumour that he is in a Greek island with his father who is hosting a family birthday party.

96028 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 3, #1302 of 1541 🔗

Hah you’ve beaten me to it.

96203 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 2, #1303 of 1541 🔗

Where are the paparazzi when you need them?

96026 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to tallandbald, 4, #1304 of 1541 🔗

There’s a rumour he is in Greece celebrating his father’s 80th birthday.!

95997 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1305 of 1541 🔗

Using parlance of the moment, she doesn’t just contaminate north of Hardrians Wall.

Devi Sridhar
19 Aug
I sit on Royal Society DELVE group feeding into UK SAGE, have attended UK Cabinet Office advisory meetings, work closely with WHO & UNICEF & on Scottish Govt Advisory Group (from April). But media only picks up that last role & not the others.


96001 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Basics, 5, #1306 of 1541 🔗

Oh dear,someone’s feelings a bit hurt then ?,ha,ha,ha.

96007 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Paul, 2, #1307 of 1541 🔗

It’s at that level yes!
Thought it worth sharing as it is another tentacle to SAGE.
DELVE. – report on face masks to UK gov 19 June.

96013 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1308 of 1541 🔗

DELVE whos who. Spot the connections each name is live-linked https://rs-delve.github.io/people.html#action-team

Action Team
Alex Archibald
Andrei Paleyes
Avishkar Bhoopchand
Axel Gandy
Azhar Hussain
William Browne
Bobby He
Bryn Elesedy
Caroline Wagner
Chris Chiu
David Ellis
Doug McNeall
Fiona Culley
Genevie Fernandes
Guy Harling
Gwenetta Curry
Harpreet Sood
Helen Greatrex
Inès Hassan
Jessica Montgomery
Kevin Donkers
Lois King
Marcel Behr
Mark Troll
Maxine Mackintosh
Michael Campbell
Michael Hutchinson
Miqdad Asaria
Neil Lawrence
Nenad Temasev
Niall Robinson
Nicholas Latimer
Nigel Field
Richard Wilkinson
Sang Woo (Daniel) Park
Sarah Filippi
Sheheryar Zaidi
Stephen Hansen
Thiemo Fetzer
Ulrich Paquet
Vasco Carvalho
Yee Whye Teh
Working Group
Alison Simmons
Anna Vignoles
Aziz Sheikh
Carol Propper
Devi Sridhar
Frank Kelly
Majid Ezzati
Neil Lawrence
Nigel Field
Paul Edelstein
Peter Diggle
Rachel Griffith
Rupert Lewis
Simon Burgess
Tim Besley
Yee Whye Teh
Steering Committee
Anne Johnson
Bryan Grenfell
Charles Bangham
Daniel Kahneman
Demis Hassabis
Devi Sridhar
Julie Maxton
Lalita Ramakrishnan
Neil Lawrence
Nick Stern
Nigel Field
Sylvia Richardson
Tim Gowers
Venki Ramakrishnan
Yee Whye Teh

96019 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 5, #1309 of 1541 🔗

Far too many to write a coherent report. I did start reading it, gave up and poured a beer while broccoli and cauliflower cheese inside a yorkie pud cooking instead for tea, More enjoyable, Maybe later.

Let me guess, one common theme running through them all who is a billionaire?

96033 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1310 of 1541 🔗

Here’s the report written by them:

"DELVE group publishes evidence paper on the use of face masks in tackling Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic

04 May 2020

Face masks could offer an important tool for contributing to the management of community transmission of Covid-19 within the general population, according to Data Evaluation and Learning for Viral Epidemics (DELVE). The multi-disciplinary group convened by the Royal Society supports a data-driven approach to learning from the different approaches countries are taking to managing the pandemic.

The group’s analysis suggests that the use of face masks, including home-made cloth masks, could reduce onward transmission if widely used in situations where physical distancing is not possible or predictable such as busy public transport, shopping and other potentially crowded public or workspaces. This contrasts to the standard use of masks for the protection of wearers. This is thought to be particularly important because a significant fraction of infected people are asymptomatic or presymptomatic and will not know that they are infectious." Cont at link above.

To give an idea of tge expertise of DELVE here is a list of positions held by the DELVE Working Group (machine learning is AI):

Professor of Statistical Machine Learning at the University of Oxford.

Professor of Economics of Political Science, LSE.

Professor of Economics at the University of Bristol.

Chief Science Policy Officer at the Royal Society.

Research Director, Institute for Fiscal Studies, and Professor of Economics, University of Manchester

Professor of Statistics, Lancaster University

Professor of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, UPenn

Director of the Centre of Molecular Epidemiology and Translational Research at the Institute for Global Health at UCL.

Professor of Machine Learning at the University of Cambridge.

Chair in Global Environmental Health at Imperial.

Professor of the Mathematics of Systems, University of Cambridge

Professor of Global Public Health at Edinburgh

Professor of Economics, Imperial

Director of the Usher Institute at Edinburgh University.

Professor of Education at the Faculty of Education, University of Cambridge, a Fellow of the British Academy, a trustee of the Nuffield Foundation and a member of the ESRC Council.

Professor of Gastroenterology, University of Oxford

96058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Basics, 2, #1311 of 1541 🔗

I was just about to write that DELVE is the group of “scientists” who don’t know the difference between a CCS and an RCT!..

96139 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, #1312 of 1541 🔗

Not many microbiologists or virologists there!


96196 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DavidC, #1313 of 1541 🔗

Google’s DEEPMind is represented by a co founder
Demis Hassabis.

DEEPmind has done award winning work into stuctures of proteins. They are also involved with implementing AI into large datasets, including id scrubbed NHS data sold to them – iirc.

96179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 5, #1314 of 1541 🔗

I’ve made this point before and no doubt I will make it again, but…

Bill Gates has more money than anybody could ever need, is retired and his hobby is infectious diseases and the idea of eradicating them through vaccination.

If you can find me a credible institution anywhere in the world that invests research time into either infectious diseases or vaccines that does not have any funding directly or indirectly from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, then I will be amazed.

If you can find me a virologist, immunologist or epidemiologist with any level of credibility who does not work for or is not connected to an institution that takes funding from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, I will be amazed.

This does not make Bill Gates Ernst Stavro Blofeld.

96189 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to matt, 2, #1315 of 1541 🔗

No it doesn’t but his confirmed and multiple comments about depopulation if he gets vaccines right and the advance “warnings” that come true defiantly makes him a suspect.

96208 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #1316 of 1541 🔗

Well said! I missed this the first time. There’s also not much money in vaccines or the third world so it’s good someone is doing this. I’ve even forgiven him for Excel.

96233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, 4, #1317 of 1541 🔗

If Gates really wanted to help people, he’d provide clean water for everyone, worldwide.

That he hasn’t speaks volumes.

96241 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #1318 of 1541 🔗

Exactly – there are so many *truly* beneficial things someone like him (ie with limitless financial resources) could have done for people in poorer countries…

96228 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #1319 of 1541 🔗

I’m not sure there was an insinuation that we have a super criminal of science fiction against us. There is a pattern to say that private money is being used to change how our nations are – and is doing so without discussion or consent. That’s quite important.

Once a person’s hobbies involve me without consent a line is crossed. A hobby does not cross borders surrepticiously and fund all manner of experiments on other humans, paid or not.

Not personally being in a position such as Gates myself I’m not certain but I’m able to imagine my moral compass operating in such a way that things like transparent consultation would be a feature of philanthropy. Where the agencies that I fund do not have people such as Adhanom leading them.

Would it not be morally right to actively not dominate the global health sphere? Monopolies are never beneficial.

Indeed a real contribution to world health would be to erase corruption not compound it.

96298 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, #1320 of 1541 🔗

The inference here is very often that he is indeed a super criminal. Not from you, necessarily.

You’ll not find me arguing for compulsory vaccination and I agree, that would cross – take a great stride over – a line. But I’ve never seen Gates urging compulsory vaccinations. I’ve seen an awful lot of talk that that’s what he’s doing, but all I’ve ever actually seen is him promoting them.

Regardless, yes, he could have focused on clean water and sanitation- and lots of people are doing that – but he didn’t. He focused on this.

I don’t think he’s any kind of saint, but nor do I think he’s the devil. He’s just a man with a lot of money, splashing it around to be gratefully accepted by scientists who are always on the lookout for funding.

96150 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #1321 of 1541 🔗

Bastard, I’m really hungry now …

96167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, #1322 of 1541 🔗

Sorry but it was lovely.

96066 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Basics, 3, #1323 of 1541 🔗

All I can say is that so many of these committees seem to me to be too big to actually get anything done! The most effective committee is less than 12 people.

96199 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DressageRider, -1, #1324 of 1541 🔗

PIgs in a trough.

96095 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 2, #1325 of 1541 🔗

Picked one at random, no others chosen at this time:


Links to Bill Gates via UCL and Wellcome Trust and Royal Society.

96157 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1326 of 1541 🔗

You can smell him from three clicks away!

96173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1327 of 1541 🔗

Picked another one completely at random:

Vasco Carvalho

Again linked to Gates via Royal Society.

Looks like DELVE is financed by gates via the Royal Society:

Vasco Carvalho delve

as it’s put on one link “ Professor Vasco Carvalho and Dr Flavio Toxvaerd are among the authors of a Royal Society DELVE Initiative Report “

From the Royal Society website:

Royal Society publishing policies meet the guidelines set down by a range of major funders including the Wellcome Trust, Research England, NIH, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

so no conflict of interest then.

96176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1328 of 1541 🔗

Brilliant AG. Delve into Delve.

Wellcome Trust is an interesting entity that pops up at times.

96236 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #1329 of 1541 🔗

Interesting you chose him, AG – I actually know Guy – taught him in Sunday school many moons ago!!!! Not seen him for many many years though…

96149 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #1330 of 1541 🔗

Heh. Lalita Ramakrishnan is the daughter of the Royal Society twat.

96160 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #1331 of 1541 🔗

You see… the connections are there – worth just listing the names.

96222 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1332 of 1541 🔗

Just having a minor meltdown in shock, saw a name on that list that I recognised, so clicked the link and went to his bio – and it *is* the person I know of that name – taught him in Sunday school (!!!) many moons ago and he is still recognisable (he had a cleft lip which is a bit of a giveaway, despite it being well-repaired)…
Am reeling in shock now…and wondering if/what I can usefully do with that information. He is part of the ‘Action group’ on that list – Guy Harling is his name…

96230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #1333 of 1541 🔗

Congratulate him and support him. We are all just trying to get along.

96072 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Basics, 1, #1334 of 1541 🔗

Three people on that list are individuals of the highest integrity, to my certain knowledge.

96109 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cambridge N, 1, #1335 of 1541 🔗

I’d like to know their personal opinion, then?
Or are they fools of the highest integrity?

96114 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to annie, #1336 of 1541 🔗

Not fools, no. Why the sneer?

96113 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cambridge N, 1, #1337 of 1541 🔗

They must have left it behind then. MW

96115 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1338 of 1541 🔗

What makes you say that? Because you don’t agree on the group’s masks view? Nor do I; doesn’t have any bearing on their integrity.

96180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #1339 of 1541 🔗

Naturally, I don’t agree with its view but I used the word ‘integrity’ because you did.

I think their integrity can be brought into question because the report they have put their names too relies on slender evidence for its recommendations and yet is:

a) Recommending protracted mask-wearing by the public to prevent viral transmission based on this scant evidence.
b) Oblivious to any risks involved in long periods of enforced mask-wearing by members of the public when there is ample evidence of this.
c) Happy to make spurious comparisons with other safety measures such as seatbelts and crash helmets without much if any supporting evidence


c) Openly reliant on behavioural science in order to foist this measure on the public.

96237 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1340 of 1541 🔗

Agree Miriam – as I wrote above, Guy Harling was born with cleft lip and palate so you’d think he would be really interested in properly researching the cons of masks, given that children with this condition usually have breathing issues..

96169 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cambridge N, 1, #1341 of 1541 🔗

That’s great. And they know a thing or two about masks – cotton – and the mass wearing of them?
I know one is less than impressive. The balance of specialisms seems curious to me. But perhaps this is intentional. With other groups specialising in other areas.

96181 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1342 of 1541 🔗

Checking out the references, this one caught my eye:


Page no longer exists!

96240 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #1343 of 1541 🔗

Take the ‘CNA’ off the end of the URL.

96003 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 5, #1344 of 1541 🔗

Oh dear, what a pity, who gives a fuck?

yah boo sucks as well.

Bill gates stooge deserves all she gets.

96014 ▶▶ A Heretic, replying to Basics, 5, #1345 of 1541 🔗

She left out the most important one – she’s a fucking clueless idiot.

96032 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, 4, #1346 of 1541 🔗

She is a thirty odd year old biology graduate (fair enough). I have two good friends (now retired), the husband a dentist and his wife a GP. He is dismissive of masks (‘They protect the patient from droplets, not the wearer, I had to replace them for every patient and after twenty minutes they are useless’). In their whole working careers they never encountered anything like the Spanish, Asian or Hong Kong flu.

And now we have a young person (in relative terms) who, again, will never have encountered the BIG flus, is completely over reacting to something which, in all rational analysis, is no more than a medium to bad ‘flu’ season, and doesn’t understand the difference between deaths, cases and positive test results.


96172 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DavidC, 1, #1347 of 1541 🔗

Professor at 27. Now, don’t get me wrong there are brilliant minds that sparkle among the dross.

96174 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 1, #1348 of 1541 🔗

Not just cream that floats to the top.

96004 Mark, replying to Mark, 5, #1349 of 1541 🔗

Re the Guardian propaganda piece posted earlier, here’s the exact same propaganda story in the Daily Mail. Someone in government making sure all the population is covered? Or just coronapanickers on the staff of each paper taking the opportunity to copy each other’s fearmongering propaganda?


96011 ▶▶ anon, replying to Mark, 6, #1350 of 1541 🔗

all news originates from the ministry of information citizen

96018 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #1351 of 1541 🔗

Does anyone have access to the correct figures so we can post them in the comments?

96035 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, 1, #1352 of 1541 🔗

The statement may well be true (though Swedenborg disagrees way below).

Most of the rest of Europe took part in WWs 1 & 2 with high numbers of dead as a result, Sweden did not.
Had it done so the screamy would be
Sweden’s highest 6 month death rate since 1944, just like everywhere else.

96038 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to karenovirus, #1353 of 1541 🔗

Thanks. No links in Swedenborg’s posts

96046 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #1354 of 1541 🔗

You can try :


… and play around with comparisons. But one keeps head-butting this dodgy word ‘cases’. Finding all-cause mortality is more difficult.

96060 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #1356 of 1541 🔗

Thanks. Doesn’t show it broken down by month. One would really need to compare the same periods, or wait until the end of the year.

96108 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #1357 of 1541 🔗

If you adjust for population and extrapolate 2020 so far to the end of the year (which will obviously overestimate) it only comes out about 10% higher than 2018, so the likelihood is that it will come out at similar to or less than 2018 by year end.

96194 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Julian, #1358 of 1541 🔗

yes, they have the highest population ever so you would expect every year to be the highest (discounting natural internannual variability)

look here

under excess mortality

Oct-May deaths is above the average by as much as last year was below it. Look from 1900 and it can be seen but is not an outlier

96161 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to RickH, 1, #1359 of 1541 🔗

About on track. Two thirds of year over, just over two thirds of the annual mortality. If it ends up above the average it won’t be by much.

Our economy on the other hand…

96118 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #1360 of 1541 🔗

Not easy to get sub-year figures, as you’ve noted below, but the issue really is the misleading and dishonest headline, because even if the figures are correct it means nothing without adjusting for population increase.

As the tweet linked by Swedenborg below shows, if you do that Sweden had more deaths in the same period in 2015, never mind 150 years back!

96137 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mark, 2, #1361 of 1541 🔗

Repeat for Daily Mil


This is typical manipulation of data in Project fear. There were 55000 deaths in 1869 in Sweden due to one of the last European famine. The population was 4 million today 10 million.In fact there was more deaths in 2015, 60000 as you can see above. In the age group < 65 there has been no pandemic in Sweden as the total death is even a bit lower compared to last 5 years. This fake or distorted data was published in a Swedish paper, picked up by Project fear and circled around the world by Guardian. As idiotic as Piers Morgan’s Blitz deaths but Big Pharma more or less control MSM.

96281 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, #1362 of 1541 🔗


These type of news spreads quickly over the world.Above France.Big Pharma has control over media and combined with low IQ journalists
without any fact checking a story goes fast these days

96021 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 4, #1364 of 1541 🔗

Although incestuous networking has a role to play – particularly since the elimination of the greater part of investigative journalism and the substitution of an echo chamber – a lot of this is deliberate propaganda.

I picked up that something smelly was going on when I saw the same techniques of exclusion, distortion and lying that had been used in the Beb/Groan’s coverage of Corbyn emerging in their coverage of the virus (You don’t have to be a Corbyn fan to recognise the disconnect between a narrative and the reality – and the simple statistics of coverage). This set me off on analysing basic mortality data to see what the actuality of the virus’s impact was (i.e that the ‘Covid’ epidemic was nowhere near a disaster of plague-like proportions – there had been seven worse years in the past quarter of a century)

Once you get tuned into the propaganda lines being promulgated, you begin to recognise the techniques.

96092 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 5, #1365 of 1541 🔗

Very good points. It’s nearly all propaganda with a good dose of lazy cut-and-pasting. AG and I have doubted just about everything the mainstream puts out for decades. I’m not sure how but Agenda 21 got past us and we didn’t see this one coming! We were aware of WEF/Davos and possible skulduggery but not this.

We were prepared to go along with ‘flattening the curve’ for about a week and then we started to see what the Govt and media were doing. We don’t watch TV or use social media but it wasn’t hard to get the gist online. Actually, warning bells should have rung for us when all the lefty academics we know were screaming for lock-downs and they started ‘self-isolating’ when they were perfectly healthy. Some still are, actually.

We cast around for real information and found, to our bemusement, that the only people questioning this obvious psy-op were right-wing libertarians. When I told AlanG that Toby Young was running a really good blog and that I was finding useful material on it his reaction was pretty interesting! But then he started looking himself. Now he even posts here, occasionally, especially when his favourite message board, run by a hysterical medic, went full Coronaphobic bonkers. So here we are, born-again right-wing libertarians (not really) but happy to be out of the silo and exchanging views with a wider range of people than before. So, some good can come of nearly anything 🙂

Anyway, what is absolutely doing our heads in at the moment is that people who have made a career out of questioning the mainstream media – Media Lens, Greg Philo from the Glasgow media group, Craig Murray, Jonathan Cook and others – have all caught the Covid Derangement virus and are still cowering under their beds. They will not go near it in their writing.. The London Review of Books, previously an excellent source of book reviews and leftist political analysis has also gone the full Coronaphobe They can’t seem to apply their own techniques to this unprecedented and perilous situation which threatens everything we and they hold dear and you can’t reason with them. It’s as if they are watching it happen but not seeing it at all.

We wonder if they are waiting for some kind of ‘Bonfire of the Tories’ crossed with a ‘New Green Dawn’. If they are, I think they’ve got a big shock coming to them as I, for one, do not see anything leftist about what’s in store. And, yes, I know many on here think it’s a Marxist plan. Whatever you call it, it looks totalitarian to me. Anyway, if anyone can explain the phenomenon of the above, when all the lefty analysts can do is talk drivel about ‘risk’, ‘eradicating the virus’ blah, blah, I would be really grateful! MW

96051 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark, 2, #1366 of 1541 🔗

Comments are good on The Daily Fail article!

This does not include 2020 but useful:


Also, will be interested to see final year figure (these do not take population growth into account):


For current:


96090 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark, 1, #1367 of 1541 🔗

The question isn’t the highest in how long but rather the highest by how much, especially compared to an average.

If it isn’t by much, then who cares how far back the last max was?

96094 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark, 1, #1368 of 1541 🔗

Just as well Sweden did what they did otherwise it could have been much worse.

96096 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark, 3, #1369 of 1541 🔗

The government is so desperate to bash Sweden re Covid

Sweden demonstrated that lockdowns, masks and vaccinations are unnecessary, so there has been a concerted propaganda effort by totalitarians to bash and ignore Sweden’s success. If the public understood the situation in Sweden, they would not put up with the tyranny from their own governments. http://www.youtube.com/watch

96211 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, #1370 of 1541 🔗

Those stats are stupid – if you look at the death rates for the last few years (rather than a 6 month period) you’d be pushed to spot the current ‘pandemic’..

96022 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1371 of 1541 🔗

NHS: Neurotic Hypondriacs Syndrome

96042 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1372 of 1541 🔗

Nazi Hell System.

96049 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1373 of 1541 🔗

Not Healing Symptoms

96057 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1374 of 1541 🔗

Nicely Helping Satan.

96023 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #1375 of 1541 🔗

I copied this extra t from the Critic because it further confirms something weird is going on in some people brains.

What they smoking
Totally normal customer Kusi Kimani has accused Marks & Spencer of “covert racism” after discovering a brown bra on its website had been labelled “tobacco”. Ms Kimani told Mirror Online: “I saw it about two weeks after George Floyd’s death and it was particularly raw to see at that time.” If you’re still baffled what’s actually offensive, Ms Kimani said it was the negative connotations of tobacco that could offend “a young girl who is already uncomfortable with the colour of her skin”. As anybody knows, children always hate doing the things they’re told not to do like smoking, and they don’t – you know – think it’s totally cool.

96155 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #1376 of 1541 🔗

Must be so exciting for these sad, empty lived wokeists when they suddenly find something to be offended about. “At last! Victimhood!” The Holy Grail of 21st century humanity.

I suppose we should be happy for her (or zhe, or whatever the current term is).

96078 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to richard riewer, #1378 of 1541 🔗

back in February I was reading the reports coming out of China and the nickname of the illness was the telephone disease.

Wonder why?

Oh look, a down vote as well for Richard.

96053 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, -2, #1379 of 1541 🔗

Forget 5G for the moment and ask yourself whether damage has already been done with 4G and the preceding Gs.

Fertility rate: ‘Jaw-dropping’ global crash in children being born

  • By James Gallagher Health and science correspondent 15 July 2020


96061 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1380 of 1541 🔗

2nd and 3rd generation of people brought up and living on processed food

96063 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to richard riewer, 7, #1381 of 1541 🔗

That drop has nothing to do with fertility, and everything to do with educating women. It has been known about for a long time as well. I remember reading a book at least 10 years ago about peak humanity and what the downside of that curve will bring in terms of shrinking economies. Japan is a very interesting case study as they have little inwards migration.

96106 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to DressageRider, 2, #1382 of 1541 🔗

and increasing wealth.. As people get wealthier – and this is for example wealthy by african or indian standards, family sizes reduce.

96297 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to mjr, #1383 of 1541 🔗

Yes, that too. But the main one is education of women and reliable methods of birth control which are easy to access.

96067 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1384 of 1541 🔗

What a surprise, mention 5G or EMFs in other than a positive light and out come the down votes no matter which forum you mention it on.

No real surprise.

From someone who’s wife has serious electromagnetic hypersensitivity all I can say is research it away from the mainstream – same a this vaccine and cover and green narrative – and you maya actually be surprised.

96070 ▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1385 of 1541 🔗

Just before the accusations of tin foil hat wearing emerge, it’s worth having a read of this paper from The Lancet.


It relates to our cumulative exposure to non-ionising radiation over time and how close we are to workplace exposure limits already – all the time .

Many of the safety studies look in isolation at the additional exposure and not the aggregation.

Some foil is looking pretty good to me right now…

96097 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to DespairSquid, 3, #1386 of 1541 🔗

I’d rather wear a tinfoil hat than a mask. I’m a conspiracy realist.

96104 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1387 of 1541 🔗


96135 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1388 of 1541 🔗

Oestrogen from the contraceptive pill in the domestic water supply, and poor diet will have had a much bigger effect on fertility.

96152 ▶▶ Mark, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1389 of 1541 🔗

Bang goes another of the scaremongering disaster warnings from those wanting to manipulate us into radical “solutions” that just happen to suit their agenda.

Endless population growth goes in alongside all the rest, including the new ice age, the malthusian impossibility of feeding the word, peak oil, Y2k, and the coronavirus plague disaster, and most likely to be joined by catastrophic global warming.

Cue scaremongering about how we are all doomed because populations will age and there will be nobody to pay taxes and we’ll all supposedly be desperate for mass immigration to trash our societies (most of those already flagged up by the reliably manipulative BBC in that piece).

In reality, it’s good if populations decline a bit, once the economic changes are addressed, people can already work for much longer, work is progressively less physically demanding, and birth rates can undoubtedly be manipulated upwards as they’ve been manipulated downwards for decades, just by making it more attractive to have children (which is something human beings tend to do naturally, left to themselves).

96054 Mr Dee, 8, #1390 of 1541 🔗

“We this for the people, for our families, for our patients … We have a lot of evidence that it is a fake story all over the world…”

“640 DOCTORS, CV19 IS A GLOBAL SCAM”– See video and presentation. The 640 doctors at this conference are further backed by more doctors in their countries.


The speaker is Heiko Schöning , doctor and member of the initiative “Doctors for Enlightenment”.

The doctors’ website:


Corona has kept the whole world in suspense for months. Corona concerns us all. Many of the measures taken by the government to fight the disease from COVID-19 are disproportionate and harmful to the population. Since no independent committee of inquiry has yet been convened, the extra-parliamentary corona committee of inquiry, ACU for short, was announced on May 31, 2020 in front of 5,000 people in Stuttgart. The ACU was also referred to in the June 20, 2020 issue of the weekly newspaper with the highest circulation, “Democratic Resistance”.
This Corona Committee stands for well-founded, free and broad education for all citizens on a multimedia basis. In addition, information is provided internationally in several languages ​​in order to achieve the broadest possible range.

96062 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 24, #1391 of 1541 🔗

A few weeks ago, I e-mailed my MP to protest against mandatory masks. Without repeating the whole e-mail, to summarise, I expressed my concerns about the creation of a totalitarian state, denounced the claim that the government was following the science by pointing out the many faults with Professor Ferguson’s fantasies, explained that as rational people we must be prepared to accept very small risks in our day-to-day life and then announced that, although I would never adhere to this particular law, I was by no means a criminal.

I have just received a reply. I am genuinely impressed by how patronising my MP thinks she can get away with being.

Dear Ben Shirley,

Thank you for getting in touch regarding your concerns over civil liberties and their being impinged upon in the name of Covid related regulations. While we disagree about the necessity of such measures – I think the lockdown actions taken by the government have been broadly correct thus far – I hope that you’ll draw some comfort from this: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-major-supermarkets-refuse-to-enforce-face-mask-rules-despite-police-pleas-12035409

While it is now illegal to go into a shop without face covering, the amount of shops that are refusing to enforce the rule, and police forces who don’t have the resources to do so, suggests that totalitarianism is not upon us yet! As I’m sure you’re aware, whether you disagree with them or not, many people are very scared about the situation we are currently in. I would urge you to show them kindness and respect by being considerate to their wishes and comply with the minor inconvenience of occasionally donning a facemask, although, as you can see above, I don’t think that your failure to do so will see you sent to the gulag.

Best wishes,
Your MP

1) Shops are refusing to enforce the rule not out of any benign feeling towards dissenting attitudes but because they do not wish to tempt any lawsuits that may arise from a breach of the Equality Act 2010
2) Totalitarianism is a manifestation of certain political ideologies. The fact that the police is not sufficiently equipped to enforce the ideology does not mean that the ideology doesn’t exist.
3) I agree in the need to show kindness and compassion towards those with bed-wetting tendencies but I will do this by refusing to indulge their irrational fears and gently nurturing them towards a healthy state of mind governed by reason.
4) Australia and New Zealand.

But what the hell, I’m preaching to the converted.

96073 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ben Shirley, 5, #1392 of 1541 🔗

At least you got an answer even if it is a load of old bollocks.

96107 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1393 of 1541 🔗

True – most of mine to my MP don’t get an answer, leaving me furious. Mind you, his single reply to one of mine left me incandescent!

It is now hard to see any solution other than civil war.

96077 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ben Shirley, 17, #1394 of 1541 🔗

I would like bedwetters to show compassion and respect towards me by not demanding something of me.

The difference between bedwetters and sceptics is that we don’t want anything from them other than to be left alone whereas they want to force people to do something they want.

Doesn’t sound very compassionate or respectful of them, to be honest.

96080 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Ben Shirley, 3, #1395 of 1541 🔗

It’s an odd argument for an MP – you’re doing something illegal but the shop will turn a blind eye seems to be what she is saying.

96093 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #1396 of 1541 🔗

So basically it’s only for our own incompetence and lack of resources that we are not yet living in a totalitarian state, but we’re trying our best to get there. Does that sum it up?

96121 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Ben Shirley, 4, #1397 of 1541 🔗

“I hope that you’ll draw some comfort from this: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-major-supermarkets-refuse-to-enforce-face-mask-rules-despite-police-pleas-12035409

It infuriates me that these supposedly intelligent people just don’t understand the harm they do by passing stupid laws that are then widely ignored and bring the whole concept of law and order into disrepute, never mind the discord it introduces directly into society between decent people who want to obey laws because that’s what one should do and other decent people who recognise the harm done by these stupid laws and choose to resist them..

Should disqualify them from any role in government, straight away.

96068 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 2, #1398 of 1541 🔗


Don’t know if it has been posted before, but it’s saying what we LS members have known all along.

96205 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to smileymiley, #1399 of 1541 🔗

Great interview. Bit surprised though that they did not disguise her voice – fairly sure someone will recognise it and expose her..

96075 Steve Hayes, 2, #1400 of 1541 🔗

The President of Italy’s Infectious Diseases Therapy Society has felt it necessary to point out that people with Covid 19 should not be treated with antibiotics. This is beyond satire.

96076 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 9, #1401 of 1541 🔗

Heneghan continues to scream into the wind for us


If only they’d take his advice on board, everything he says is reasoned and logical, always.

96142 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, #1402 of 1541 🔗

I sent the link to my MP and asked him to find out how many covid cases are in our local hospital – the local mockdown is to be reviewed tomorrow.

96079 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #1403 of 1541 🔗

10 March 2020
‘We’re not prepared’: coronavirus could devastate homeless communities
The lack of a coordinated coronavirus strategy for homeless communities could be catastrophic for sick and older people already struggling to survive in tents and overcrowded shelters in California, advocates warned.


16 August 2020
Coronavirus hasn’t devastated the homeless as many feared

More than 200 of an estimated 8,000 homeless people in San Francisco have tested positive for the virus, and half came from an outbreak at a homeless shelter in April. One homeless person is among the city’s 69 deaths.


96091 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mr Dee, #1404 of 1541 🔗

Mr Dee, Great link, However you can delete everything after the ? in the bottom link – all the information that follow is what can be used to identify you

96101 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Victoria, 1, #1405 of 1541 🔗

Really? Thanks!

But I don’t really care if I’m identified. They’ll know soon enough, if they don’t already. Effing M Effers.

96100 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1406 of 1541 🔗

so 1 person in 8000 died. And as this population is homeless, it is likely that there may be underlying issues such as ill health through substance abuse

96110 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to mjr, 2, #1407 of 1541 🔗

Bear in mind the MAJORITY of this people probably have underlying health issues.

Also it’s a subset of society where there is NO social distancing, NO hand hygiene, NO masks. So where were the deaths? We were told that if we lived like that, a huge proportion of us would die.

This fact concerning the homeless has blown the lid off it all for me, once and for all. Scamdemic. Plandemic. Whatever you want to call it – that’s my position from now on, unless anyone can persuade me otherwise.

96116 ▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to mjr, 4, #1408 of 1541 🔗

I also suspect they kept clear of hospitals where aggressive drug treatments and invasive ventilation were the approved “treatments” in the early days.

96126 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to DespairSquid, 1, #1409 of 1541 🔗

Excellent point.

96081 richard riewer, #1410 of 1541 🔗

The interview with Mads Palsvig took place on December 16, 2018. He mentions the word New World Order and describes the plan around minute 29.

96088 Edward, #1411 of 1541 🔗

Moderately encouraging results from a survey of those on the mailing list of a local organisation which puts on live music in pubs, allowing for some selection bias.
62% are ready to attend live events, subject to the current precautionary policies in pubs.
22% are not yet ready but expect to be in two months.
15% currently are only willing to watch at home via live streaming.
1% are not ready for live events or streaming.
This is in the Midlands. It contrasts with the cowardly behaviour shown by the larger organisations and particularly those in London, as described by our regular contributor Bart Simpson.

96098 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1412 of 1541 🔗

Oh look who received $200 000 in April 2020 from the Gates Foundation:

Date: April 2020