Last updated2020-08-22T17:01:28



96290 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #1 of 785 🔗

First? I am not worthy!

96292 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 93, #2 of 785 🔗

You will recall I was having an exchange with my MP about masks – here’s my latest reply to his anodyne response of the other day.

I expect no reply, and suspect that Biker with his claymore will be more effective than me with my pen:

Dear ,,,

Thank you for your response. As you are a Minister for Health, I am unsurprised at its general tenor, as I recognise that you are required to toe the party line.

However, I hope that at least you have time to consider my position.

Before 24 July (Mandatory Mask-Day) the WHO, Matt Hancock, Dr Jennie Harries, Chris Whitty and Jonathan van Tam were all on the record as saying that masks were ineffective outside a hospital setting and had a negligible impact on the spread of the virus.  Doctors of my acquaintance were threatened with fines if they were seen wearing masks in hospital corridors.

By 24 July, the virus had all but disappeared, with negligible hospitalisations and deaths. This should have been a cause for celebration. The thousands of ‘cases’ referred to now by yourselves and the media are positive tests, where the main symptom is that the testee feels entirely well!

In most cases, the virus was only ever seriously threatening to the elderly in care homes and the sick in hospitals; the eventual enquiry will doubtless reveal the number of deaths caused by the NHS’s enforced transfer of sick patients to nursing homes, and the number of nosocomial infections in hospitals – I will wager that this will account for over 80% of total deaths. However, that is not the point of this letter.

My point is that by the end of June, and certainly by 24 July, the virus had ceased to be a significant threat. Yet mandatory mask-wearing is heightening the apprehension and fear felt by the general public. We are told that it was meant to have the opposite effect – the Prime Minister said that it should encourage people to go back to work and get the retail sector thriving again.

When visiting my local supermarket at the height of the threat in March and April, I could see, smile at and talk to acquaintances. Now, it feels as if I have walked into the set of a zombie movie with silent, sullen, masked faces everywhere I look. It is no surprise that the survey in the Daily Telegraph of 18th August (Kantar Retail article) showed that only 4% of people had visited the shops more since masking, whereas 70% visited less – hardly a ringing endorsement of masking as a political strategy.

Yes, this was a political, not a medical, strategy, as evidenced by:

  • The lack of medical evidence to justify the shift in the opinions of those referred to above
  • The Prime Minister’s take on mandating mask-wearing
  • Your own comment that a loosely wrapped scarf would do the job – so it is effectively just for show

Furthermore, the available medical evidence seems to show that wearing masks increases the health risk for the mask-wearer.  This seems common sense; if you are continually breathing in your own germs and restricting your oxygen supply, this cannot be conducive to health.

My greater concern is that this ramping up of public anxiety at this stage of the game is a political stunt, and a very dangerous one. I fear that the endgame is the announcement of a ‘safe, tested and 100% effective vaccine’ at a time of the Government’s choosing. Of course, without several years of testing, the after-effects of any vaccine cannot be known, but I fear this will not get in the way of the political decision. The vaccine manufacturers will not be at financial risk from the fall-out from side-effects, as they will be indemnified by the Government. The rushed vaccine produced after the swine flu pandemic sets a worrying precedent.

You will tell me that taking the vaccine will not be mandatory, but it will not need to be; there has already been discussion of a future requirement to carry a vaccine passport without which one would be unable (for example) to travel or work. Effectively this would make the vaccine mandatory for anyone who wishes to participate in society.

If I wanted to live under a State-supervised regime, I would have emigrated to China. I do not, as I live in hope that the Government will come to its senses, change course, and apologise for its handling of the fiasco – it would probably be forgiven – or that, if not, a new broom will sweep away the current incumbents.

Yours sincerely,

96337 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to BTLnewbie, 9, #3 of 785 🔗


96350 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to BTLnewbie, 18, #4 of 785 🔗

I won’t be forgiving the government whether they apologise or not.

96397 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Montag Smith, 10, #5 of 785 🔗

I don’t know what punishment would be appropriate for them. Something quite harsh. They deserve no forgiveness. God can do that, if He wants.

96404 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 5, #6 of 785 🔗

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

96451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 1, #7 of 785 🔗

Going a bit far…

96856 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to annie, #8 of 785 🔗

Not al all. Decimation (in the Roman sense) would concentrate their minds wonderfully.

96855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to matt, #9 of 785 🔗

A just and perfect response for such impertinance, my Lord.

96422 ▶▶▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Julian, 6, #10 of 785 🔗

I wouldn’t risk publicly saying what punishment I think they deserve. Unfortunately there is unlikely to be any accountability. If they had any integrity they would already have resigned, but they won’t even accept that mild consequence.

96750 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Montag Smith, 3, #11 of 785 🔗

Trouble is, if you tell them they’ve already lost your vote then they have no reason to listen to you. You have to imply they can redeem themselves to give them an incentive.

96877 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #12 of 785 🔗

If they lose enough votes, they’re out of a job at the next election, or potentially sooner.

96854 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #13 of 785 🔗

I might be willing to forgive the government (provided the sh!tty vaccine is not mandatory or “conditional” to be allowed to do anything in our society) but I certainly won’t forgive or forget the actions of the police, particularly Dickless; the CC of Northamptonshire sticking his fat little hands into my trolley; or Derbyshire who have form on YouTube for bad behaviour towards the law-abiding public, for buzzing people with drones to chase them home.

96351 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to BTLnewbie, 15, #14 of 785 🔗

The problem for the junior minister, is that the points you raise are wholly sensible, reasonable and are backed by facts. Therefore no sensible reply supporting the government policy is possible. We should though, all write something along the lines of your excellent letter in an effort to make our dozy MPs wake up. It will obviously be a very hard task, as MPs didn’t get where they are today by clever.thinking.

96751 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Rowan, 3, #15 of 785 🔗

I think MPs have very fragile egos which manifest in an inflated sense of self-importance. I’m also pursuing my MP, the chief whip (I posted my latest missive up here a couple of days ago) and the through-line of my message was basically the implication that he wasn’t thinking for himself. Hopefully, that will jar with his own self-image enough that he’ll actually read and think if only in an attempt to debunk my position, and the evidence will then jar with his unconsidered position.

96365 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to BTLnewbie, #16 of 785 🔗

All good, especially the last paragraph, though “State-supervised” might have been strengthened to something like “authoritarian”.

96380 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #17 of 785 🔗

An excellent letter – well done!

96672 ▶▶▶ PWL, replying to BTLnewbie, -4, #18 of 785 🔗

Utterly pointless exercise.

96838 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to PWL, 7, #19 of 785 🔗

I must agree. BTLnewbie makes the mistake of assuming that his MP has a conscience. In order to ascend the greasy pole to Westminster, a man must flush his conscience down the bog very early on. The very fact that BTL’s MP has been appointed a minister is confirmation that he is also an unprincipled lickspittle; and, since he is merely a junior minister, we can add to the mix burning ambition and a desire to drag or tread down his rivals.

BTL is obviously a decent and educated person who naturally assumes that the people he or she deals with are also decent, like the many readers here who have commended his post. That, I’m afraid, is a cardinal error. We are not up against human beings here, but monsters.

96919 ▶▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Simon Dutton, 3, #20 of 785 🔗

I hear you, but a “decent and educated” man’s gotta do what a “decent and educated” man’s gotta do!

96296 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #21 of 785 🔗

Indeed you are.

Now go and collect your prize, a years supply of face masks.

96514 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to BTLnewbie, #22 of 785 🔗


96575 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to BTLnewbie, #23 of 785 🔗

Maybe not but you’re firsty!

96294 DJC, replying to DJC, 55, #24 of 785 🔗

Walking around Paris today, I adopted a new tactic. On seeing a masked zombie walking towards me, I caught their gaze, tapped my forefinger against my cheek and followed up with the circular “you are loony” maneuver next to my forehead with the same finger. Several zombies actually removed their chattel in embarrassment! I recommend it.

96316 ▶▶ yendi dial, replying to DJC, 10, #25 of 785 🔗

You saw, I am sure the crazy mask mandatory map by the mayor Hidalgo, one street you wear the mask, next, you don’t… or a BIG fine, we have lost common sense and the rebellious Parisian spirit

96327 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to yendi dial, 15, #26 of 785 🔗

where are the yellow vests – surely they should be out having a protest or two about their civil rights etc??

96666 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sue, -1, #27 of 785 🔗

Were the yellow vests just a French version of BLM or Antifa.

96752 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Rowan, 4, #28 of 785 🔗

Not unless the BLM agenda includes cheap petrol and an end to speeding fines.

96361 ▶▶▶ DJC, replying to yendi dial, 8, #29 of 785 🔗

Well this was on the Champs Elysées and the Jardin des Tuileries which are so-called “zombie zones”. Honestly people have to stand up to this lunacy it’s going beyond ridiculous…..

96336 ▶▶ watashi, replying to DJC, 1, #30 of 785 🔗

Did you get anybody reacting aggressively? I fear I would get aggression if I tried that. Might be tempted to give it a go tho

96358 ▶▶▶ DJC, replying to watashi, 3, #31 of 785 🔗

I smiled while doing it.

96862 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to DJC, #32 of 785 🔗

Careful with doing that in Germany. It was a criminal offence there when I was in the Forces.

96300 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 17, #33 of 785 🔗

I’m beyond annoyed, but that’s my usual state of being these days. My daughter is going back to her university town tomorrow and I knew she’d be under house arrest for two weeks. We’ve accounted for all of that by hiring local folks to do her shopping for her. I just found out that she also has to have 3 Covid tests during her isolation period! In what universe does it make sense to both isolate and be tested 3 times??? Don’t even try to answer. She’s supposed to not even leave the house during her prison time, and yet she’ll have to go somewhere to get her 3 tests. She jokingly asked me if she could stop in to the liquor store on her way back from testing. I’m actually all for it, but she’s not much of a rule breaker. I guess this insanity is to prove that you can’t be too “safe” (my new most hated word).

96332 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 6, #34 of 785 🔗

Not good! My job here in the UK relies heavily on Canada becoming sane, and it seems like there’s a long long way to go. Not that UK policy is in any way sane either!

96349 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #35 of 785 🔗

Yeah, don’t count on Canada becoming sane any time soon! Way more non-compliance in the UK than here.

96301 swedenborg, 13, #36 of 785 🔗


 “rcASMR/Selected cities/Under 65 Even in Tegnell’s lair, the den of evil that is Stockholm, mortality under 65 was less elevated than in Glasgow & Edinburgh where “they did everything right” (TM Fauci) ” (and London)

96303 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #37 of 785 🔗

A picture here of a UK outdoor Corona safety sign telling people to look away from each other as they pass.


96310 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Basics, 20, #38 of 785 🔗

There are no limits to this lunacy. None. Think of the most insane ideas you can, then multiply the craziness ten thousand fold. You still won’t even be close.

96333 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Basics, 5, #39 of 785 🔗

Covid victims have now developed Medusa-like abilities.

96489 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #40 of 785 🔗

I am developing the hairstyle.

96340 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 7, #41 of 785 🔗

The Doctor: Don’t blink. Don’t even blink. Blink and you’re dead. They are fast. Faster than you can believe. Don’t turn your back. Don’t look away. And most of all, don’t blink. Good Luck.

96384 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to matt, 2, #42 of 785 🔗

One of the best episodes. And also one of the first major things Carey Mulligan was in

96393 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, #43 of 785 🔗

Do you mean the film ‘Never let me go’?

96474 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Carrie, 2, #44 of 785 🔗

That was 2010. “Blink” was 2007. She was in Joe Wright’s Pride and Prejudice in 2004 but the Doctor Who episodes was a cracker and most of it is just her and Tennant. At least for me.

96492 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to mhcp, 3, #45 of 785 🔗

More her than tenant. I don’t think it’s one of the best – it’s the best.

96505 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #46 of 785 🔗


96606 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 1, #47 of 785 🔗

The IDIOTS are riding high now on a wave of unbridled power!

96304 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 31, #48 of 785 🔗

I have just read the supposed response of our Dear Leader to the GCSE students, from his holiday yurt in Scotland – or is it his father’s pad in Greece?


The following is attributed to him (on Twitter):
‘Congratulations to everyone receiving their GCSE results today. I know the last few months have been tough and this isn’t how you imagined you would be finishing Year 11, but you can be proud of how you helped to keep the virus under control.’
‘You have literally saved lives through staying at home and keeping distance from others. Thank you for protecting yourselves, your families and your communities this year. And once again – congratulations and well done!’

This is either a sick joke, or the man is sick in the head. Lord Baker has just said on Sky that Williamson was blindsided by the algorithm used by Ofqual that was ‘developed’ by Number 10. Not sure who he meant, but it certainly wasn’t Boris.

The PM is a disgrace and should be removed before he causes any further damage.

96338 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #49 of 785 🔗

sick joke and sick in the head I think.

96341 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #50 of 785 🔗

The replies are a sight to behold

96353 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #51 of 785 🔗

By that logic kids will have to stay home during every flu season to ensure they literally save lives. More evidence that we’re living on a crazy planet.

96381 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #52 of 785 🔗

I feel sorry for any kids who have grades this year because if in the future I’m looking at their qualifications I may pause if it says A levels or even degree obtained 2020.

I’ll be thinking you didn’t sit an exam? I don’t care if there are exceptional circumstances. Frankly I would rather no grades were issued so the full fuck up has real impact.

96406 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to mhcp, 1, #53 of 785 🔗

I agree. It will depend what they went onto do and how well they did it, but I would take no 2020 results on face value when hiring.

96448 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 1, #54 of 785 🔗

They must have missed at least a quarter of the course. Next year will have to be remedial – if any educating takes place next year. And results based on grade predictions are suspect by definition. Wouldn’t touch them with a bargepole.

96458 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to annie, 1, #55 of 785 🔗

They’ve been tainted now. I suspect in a year there will be legislation out to not discriminate, even though the very word means to be choosy

96518 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mhcp, 2, #56 of 785 🔗

Son 2 has just done A Levels (A*A*A). We have pressed for, and received, the subject rank orders and we are waiting for details of the methodology the school used to calculate the grades and rank order (they haven’t got one!). We suspect some jerrymandering, as the rank orders do not equate with his Mocks and other performance measures. The Ofqual algorithm was flawed, but make no mistake, teachers were not innocent bystanders in this mess. He is having a gap year anyway, and is preparing for online exams in the autumn for competitive universities and courses. To say we are unhappy with the school would be an understatement!

96495 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #57 of 785 🔗

That message is truly nauseating!!

96305 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 17, #58 of 785 🔗

Prof Raj Bhopal is an establishment Public Health figure in the UK who recently published this
He has done an interview stating that India must go for herd immunity in this Indian network Wire.

There are rumours that UK gov. is aware of his views and accept them and that face masks are just theatre for the masses. Prof Bhopal Public Health Edinburgh has consulted 20 public health persons in UK before writing the paper. You might not agree with everything in his article but the direction is clear. I suspect that this article is perhaps influencing the UK government.

96319 ▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, 27, #59 of 785 🔗

Face masks are indeed just theatre for the masses. This makes them no less objectionable, pernicious, evil and totalitarian (probably more so)

96366 ▶▶ tonys, replying to swedenborg, 2, #60 of 785 🔗

IFR’s have in all probability been revised down since this paper was written apparently in April, making a move toward a population immunity look even more like the best possible option, but as pointed out there does have to be some semblance of political leadership and honest discussion , do we really see any evidence of this I wonder?

96753 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to tonys, #61 of 785 🔗

There’s an article on CEBM about declining CFR. Presumably IFR must follow it down, but I’ve not seen any numbers on that. I suppose the problem is that we’re still reliant on models to work out how many people have actually been infected.

96476 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to swedenborg, 3, #62 of 785 🔗

Thanks for this! The first half of the interview is about population/herd immunity generally as relevant to UK and Europe. Prof Bhopal is so clear and rational. If only this interview was being cycled on 24h news. Surely it would puncture the panic balloon for many people. Going to send it on to some friends and family…

96943 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to swedenborg, #63 of 785 🔗

On vaccines:
A vaccine that is effective, proven to be safe, manufacturable in billions of doses and available globally is unlikely this year, and may take years, even decades. Proven safety is essential especially in children or young people [ 9 ]. Serious illnesses or deaths in young people following immunisation, whether coincidental or causal, could impede vaccination. In people over 70-years of age, or the immunosuppressed, where the vaccine is needed most, a strong immune response is unlikely. Efficacy of vaccines needs to be demonstrated in older groups and in those with underlying disorders.

96960 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to swedenborg, #64 of 785 🔗

and good stats for three minutes from 21.08 in the video.

96307 swedenborg, 24, #65 of 785 🔗

“California, Georgia, Florida, Nevada & Texas all had completely different re-opening timelines, mask requirements, densities, etc And yet, the 7-day avg of cases per million peaked at almost exactly the same time. How is that possible if “interventions” are so important?”
 A very clever comment. The virus seems to be outside human influence.

96308 JohnB, 2, #66 of 785 🔗


1 day to go for these dudes funding effort.

96312 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 45, #67 of 785 🔗

I’ve not posted here for a while, but have still been reading Toby’s fantastic output here most days. I’m at the point where I am dreaming about this ongoing crisis every single night. Thankfully I enjoy good mental health, but the fact that I cannot switch off my brain from trying to process every facet of this continued nightmare makes me deeply concerned for those who DO suffer with severe depression and anxiety.

And then there’s the ongoing hell of the masks. I said this on social media lately:

“Truly in the grip of mask fatigue now. They’ve become a form of wearable pollution, a facial desecration, a cotton and polyester barrier to the font of all human expression.

They’re shit, is what I’m trying to say. Take them off.”

Mercifully, I’ve found a very supportive corner of Twitter where the sentiments expressed above are always well received.

I’m just so horrified that in such a short space of time, this Government (coupled with its propaganda arm, the mendacious MSM) have essentially reduced established science to mere conspiracy theory, brainwashed millions into believing that our cherished freedoms are a threat to humanity and worst of all, the mass pumping of experimental “vaccines” into the world population is the only thing that will save us.

The only thing that keeps me going is the thought that things really do have to get worse before they get better. We WILL be free once again.

96348 ▶▶ peter, replying to Scotty87, 33, #68 of 785 🔗

Dont’ worry, the furlough will end soon and the purge will begin against those fucking treacherous cunts who have destroyed Britain.

96403 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to peter, 1, #69 of 785 🔗

Except that Simon Dolan has heard rumours that furlough is going to be extended..

96418 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #70 of 785 🔗

Interesting concept. The chaos of extending would be another effective way of extending all measures towards V Day.

96501 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 5, #71 of 785 🔗

Also beyond the US election..and likely beyond the end of the Transition period at the end of the year. Two potential flashpoint where it is politically useful to have the population locked up…

96354 ▶▶ annie, replying to Scotty87, 15, #72 of 785 🔗

We will be free.
They will pay.
Keep on resisting.

96357 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Scotty87, 8, #73 of 785 🔗

Something tells me that the volcano is about to erupt…

96364 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Scotty87, 25, #74 of 785 🔗

Amazing post! Like you, I can’t stop reading and thinking about this insanity from morning until I go to sleep. Why? Because it has infiltrated every single aspect of my life. The simplest task has become an obstacle course of idiocy to navigate and so it’s impossible not to be consumed by it. I’m at my city condo and I’m supposed to mask up the minute I leave my suite (haven’t done it and won’t do it), so short of staying in all day — which has been the case most days. Hubby does all of the shopping, but even seeing him put that diaper on his face makes me cringe. In a few days I’ll be back at our country place where I see nobody (unless invited) where I can at least have some peace and not be subjected to masked zombies everywhere. Yes, I have had bouts of depression and anxiety since this madness began because I loved my life and now, literally everything I loved has been taken away. Like you, I do think things will get worse still, though I’ve structured my life so that it won’t make much difference (I’m already locked down because I won’t mask up) and am starting to stockpile things for the next lockdown. I have to believe we will be free once again, though some days it’s hard.

96731 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Scotty87, 4, #75 of 785 🔗

Well, you’re definitely not the only one. I keeping dreaming about being a prisoner. Every night, over and over.

During the day, I’ve restructured my life to largely avoid the masked ones, but I have to ride the bus every day to my allotment – the only source of joy left in my life. I struggle not to ask people why they are wearing masks. But it’s pointless to argue with faceless, anonymous strangers.

96318 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #76 of 785 🔗

Just the start. Local press showing a list of 23 pubs, cafes and shops that are gone for good due to covid response lockdown. Some are chains many are not.


96325 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 12, #77 of 785 🔗

My local (not my closest pub, but I used to walk the dog there across the park) has gone. I suspect it’s just a convenient excuse by the owners, who are ultimately Asahi via Greenwich Meantime, but I was surprised how emotional I felt about it.

There are now no decent craft beer pubs in Greenwich. I’m tempted to chuck my job in and start one with a “swervers, bedwetters and Karens not welcome” policy.

96330 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 4, #78 of 785 🔗

Just reading about the Jolly Angler going in Manchester. Culture is lost. Was ever thus but rueful all the same. Seems to happen to the good most often.

96331 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 10, #79 of 785 🔗

If they do close the pubs in September “to let the schools go back” or if there’s another lockdown including pub closures, the British pub is dead. Gone.

96677 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to matt, 2, #80 of 785 🔗

Puritanism and Prohibition rolled into one. The English Pub will never die.

96413 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to matt, 1, #81 of 785 🔗

Which local Matt? I used to live there. Plume?

96416 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella, 1, #82 of 785 🔗

Ach no you mean the old ‘candles’ next to the Tolly?

96424 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 1, #83 of 785 🔗

Which became the Union

96555 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to matt, 4, #84 of 785 🔗

Pelton arms is not bad although haven’t been for a couple of years due to re-location.

Thing that pissed me off is that Edinburgh will be full of boarded up restaurants and pubs, I can’t see many others surviving due to the unpleasantness of having a drink in this dystopian bollocks.

96344 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #85 of 785 🔗

Just had a look and I recognise many of the places – Vapiano didn’t surprise me, the food was mediocre and I suspect the one here in London has closed for good as well.

96369 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #86 of 785 🔗

By the way both Natural Kitchen and Carluccios at Waterloo are still closed, in fact the balcony area where they are is roped off. Seemed plenty of people at Waterloo though, surely there is now demand.

96373 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to davews, 2, #87 of 785 🔗

I thought Carluccio’s had gone to the wall?

96379 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to matt, #88 of 785 🔗

Some Carluccio’s have permanently closed including the one here in our brand new shopping centre which only opened a year ago. A few have re-opened but no idea for how long. The Waterloo one still says ‘late July’.

96387 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to davews, #89 of 785 🔗

Gone, I’d guess.

96473 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to davews, #90 of 785 🔗

That doesn’t surprise me. A lot of Carluccios branches have closed.

96621 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 2, #91 of 785 🔗

I just went out for a few beers, my local local is….OK, pretty normal really. Just paying lip service to the new normal.

Another one, yer OK.

I was asked to do track n trace and I just said NO. Easy.

I talked to a bunch of corporate types who were loudly talking about covid bollocks and taking the piss, I thought perhaps they might be in the market for a few badges….They looked at me like I had two heads, still nothing unusual there, so fairly normal too.

This pub is a Michelin star restaurant normally, this side of the business is twatted but now they are doing a good trade in very very nice Pizzas.

Another thing I noticed tonight, there is a fair in town, a socially distanced fairground. Good to see a fair ground!

But, it was all fenced off, a masked security goon on the gate, you buy a ticket for £10, free rides “all night” it opens at 7:30 and closes at 9:30.

But.. No face nappies on the riders!

BUT the fairground people wore em…booo.

BUT there was loads of sporty stuff going in the park next door, loads. Judo, fitness classes, cricket, hockey football..sporty as flip….

Yer that was OK too.

96320 Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 45, #92 of 785 🔗

Quick visit to local co-op, I am the only unmasked except for staff. Saw two people do a double take on noticing I had no mask.

I often ask if any staff have been unwell and the answer is no, it’s plainly obvious by the fact the staff are always there working away, same faces week after week. I still just don’t get why this is not a light bulb moment, even if you don’t research the facts properly. Surely despite the propaganda it’s not hard to put 1+1 together!

96342 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Rabbit, 9, #93 of 785 🔗

I think it might be hard for some.

96499 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Rabbit, 13, #94 of 785 🔗

People seem so unable to use their own senses! My eyes, ears and nose tell me people are not dying everywhere.

96520 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to ikaraki, 8, #95 of 785 🔗

Ah, yes, but I know somebody who knows somebody whose brother in-law’s cousin’s entire family dropped dead of coronavirus overnight, so show some respect.

96617 ▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to matt, 2, #96 of 785 🔗

Oh, do you think that was my half sister’s friend’s cousin’s godfather’s lot? I think it might be..

96538 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Rabbit, 6, #97 of 785 🔗

I still just don’t get why this is not a light bulb moment, even if you don’t research the facts properly…” same reason why many shops in some cases literally look like they want to almost attack you for using cash, yet the BoE was quoted (in the Telegraph) as saying absolutely “no greater” risk of handling cash than many common surfaces – handles, doorknobs, credit cards…yet said shop will indicate zero risk with large numbers of people smearing their hands over plastic touch screens, handling credit, debit & loyalty cards, and touching chip & pin terminals…..

96976 ▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to Not Tiger Woods, 1, #98 of 785 🔗

Of course there is no less risk than common surfaces. People don’t tend to wipe their noses on their banknotes after all! Heck you tend to touch cash less often than those other surfaces, and notes aren’t generally left in places you could sneeze or cough onto, at least that’s my experience.

96322 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 30, #99 of 785 🔗

Back from another evening at the local pub. Parents happy to have all kids mixing and playing in the playground, no social distancing or track and tracing being enforced. I’m sure that the majority of people don’t GENUINELY want the ‘new normal’.

96324 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 10, #100 of 785 🔗

Same here, my family socialising all over the place. While those we meet up with might not be openly sceptical they must also be thinking the same thing.

96326 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #101 of 785 🔗

I’m certain that even those all for it actually saw the facts we discuss here and knew the true risk to them, their families and to “society as a whole” they would turn in an instant!

96385 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #102 of 785 🔗

Yes, we just need to make those people realise that if they don’t push back, it will be forever

At the moment they still believe it will be over soon

96323 Tom Blackburn, 5, #103 of 785 🔗

Hi all. Has anyone considered signing up as a mystery shopper and going mask-less?


96328 Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 31, #104 of 785 🔗

Been away with family & had been looking forward to seeing if other parts of the country were reacting with less conformity then where I live in Scotland. With sadness, the answer is no.

Even my husband, who is normally much more optimistic than I am, made the comment that we would go home and all our shopping would be online. Not only that, but we would not be going anywhere, where masks are required. The experience is completely soulless.

We both came back home feeling very despondent. The government will reap the whirlwind, it so clearly deserves, but unfortunately, the consequences will take many of us with it.

96339 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 17, #105 of 785 🔗

You evidently didn’t come to Wales (I’m in the north bit). Very few masks in shops. English and Scottish tourists here don’t wear masks, showing that it’s probably only the threat of fines that make them compliant. Mask wearing mandatory on public transport, but buses are half empty (and I saw a maskless mother and child on a bus today – so not total compliance). Cardiff bus drivers told by authorities recently not to challenge people hopping on not wearing masks.

96391 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #106 of 785 🔗

No, not Wales – Yorkshire, which makes it ten times worse, as you’d think their bloody-mindedness would automatically rebel.

96493 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 3, #107 of 785 🔗

I have a Yorkshire aquaintance who is extremely vocal about all this nonsense. A shame his other compatriots are not the same.

96517 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #108 of 785 🔗

Depends which part.
Some bits of Yorkshire are so full of comers-in you’ll be lucky to hear a Yorkshire accent.

96656 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Cheezilla, #109 of 785 🔗


97079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Biker, #110 of 785 🔗

Nay lad thasatta du betna that.

96359 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 7, #111 of 785 🔗

Not if we refuse to lose heart.
Only despair can defeat us. Don’t let it.
Our enemies will be our footstool. Look out your stiletto heels.

96399 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to annie, 2, #112 of 785 🔗

Am trying not to lose heart, but it is v. v. difficult in face of all the rampant idiocy.

96438 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 8, #113 of 785 🔗

Of clurse it’s difficult, but far less so if you keep away from shops.The best antidote to covid crassness is a country walk, or ride, or drive. Plenty of superb walking country in glorious Yorkshire!
And I like online shopping. All those parcels arriving, it’s like Christmas every day!

96329 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 40, #114 of 785 🔗


A sharp article from US again
“A mystery for months is how it is that so many governments in so many different places on earth could have adopted the same or very similar preposterous policies, no matter the threat level of the virus, and without firm evidence that interventions had any hope of being effective.” “In the course of two weeks, traditional freedoms were zapped away in nearly all developed countries. In a seriously bizarre twist, even the silliest policies replicated themselves like a virus in country after country.
 “I tend to resist big conspiracy theories on this subject simply because I seriously doubt that governments are smart enough to implement them. From what I can see, these governors and statesmen seem to be making things up in a crazy panic and then sticking with them just to pretend that they know what they are doing”

96386 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to swedenborg, 12, #115 of 785 🔗

It was always likely that lockdowns only happened because China did one. That seemed to seed the fear level around the world, even if the fear didn’t manifest until the virus was obviously established in other countries.

96761 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #116 of 785 🔗

And what sort of irony is that – the West adopted totalitarian measures by voluntarily choosing to imitate an authoritarian country? Why is China our role model?

96471 ▶▶ Alan Billingsley, replying to swedenborg, 7, #117 of 785 🔗

It is totally unbelievable that the leaders of virtually every country in the world have followed the same insane policies. How is it not one of these leaders has stood up and said enough is enough. Hard to explain or understand!

96521 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alan Billingsley, 5, #118 of 785 🔗

Follow the money!

96623 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #119 of 785 🔗

What use is money in a Mad Max world?

96500 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 18, #120 of 785 🔗

Not only the same policies, but exactly the same LANGUAGE – that *cannot* be coincidental.. Language generally evolves gradually over time, before a consensus is eventually come to regarding terms to use to describe particular new phenomena. But this time every language had the terms from the start – ‘new normal’, ‘social distancing’, and so on started to be used in the media in every country pretty much simultaneously.
This was all most definitely planned and decided in advance!!!

96519 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 8, #121 of 785 🔗

Yes! My son pointed out at the beginning of April that all the lockdown countries were using exactly the same words and phrases.

96550 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #122 of 785 🔗

Someone put together a video on youtube showing this, wish I had bookmarked it now..

96964 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Mendelsohn, replying to Carrie, 2, #123 of 785 🔗

It’s probably been taken down by now as have so many videos detailing the truth.

96635 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #124 of 785 🔗

Yer they do that. There are a few videos compilations of weapons of mass destruction type news stories that were broadcast aroung the globe using the exact same wording on hundreds of main stream channels, also there are clips of many news outlets using the exact same words and phrasing about all kinds of bollocks. There is lots of this on youtube. It’s amazing really. LOCKSTEP.

96681 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, 2, #125 of 785 🔗

All those words were pre-scripted.

96740 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 1, #126 of 785 🔗

There’s a prof. called David Crystal who writes popular books on the English language. You can be sure he is currently preparing one on Covidspeak. Unfortunately I won’t be able to read it because I will succumb to nausea after merely reading the blurb.

96742 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, #127 of 785 🔗
97074 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #128 of 785 🔗

Wow, he was my tutor 50 years ago. Must be getting on a bit now!

96556 ▶▶ NickR, replying to swedenborg, 16, #129 of 785 🔗

I think in addition to the politicians the people who need to examine their consciences are the medics. They know the hospitals are half empty, they know chronic patients aren’t getting proper treatment. They know the health advice about boosting immunity levels, vitamin D, zinc etc hasn’t been put out. They know that positive tests don’t lead to hospitalisations but have you heard more than 1 or 2 say this? I haven’t.

96582 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NickR, #130 of 785 🔗

Are some being bribed in some way?
Hard to believe *no* medics have family that may be missing out on treatment as a result of all the…

96765 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Carrie, 2, #131 of 785 🔗

Or threatened.

96980 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #132 of 785 🔗

I expect it is this. Many will be putting their livelihoods on the line if they whistle blow or publicly speak out.

I would not be surprised if a “don’t talk to the press” policy has not been dictated from up on high in most trusts around the country.

96912 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to NickR, 1, #133 of 785 🔗

That’s because their careers will be over if they speak out. The NHS is notorious for its’ vicious and vindictive treatment of whistleblowers.

97038 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to NickR, #134 of 785 🔗

And some of them even push vaccine that is not even approve yet.
I know they get paid bonuses for vaccinations.

96334 davews, replying to davews, 15, #135 of 785 🔗

Just back after another lovely day walking the Thames – from Woolwich to Erith. Well nice in parts, the Crossness Sewage works left me in a coughing fit.

First time all the way on train and tube maskless, wearing my ‘government issued’ exemption lanyard. Wearing a lanyard does work. Coming back a Community Officer, presumably working for British Transport Police, boarded the train at Richmond. Young chap maskless the other end of the carriage got a right grilling then the guard came out and had a word with him. Mask checker chap then walked down carriage, saw my lanyard, quick grin and not a word.

The guards seem to have recognised exemptions now. At his next announcement he said that some couldn’t wear masks and they should wear their sunflower or expemption halyards to show it. He maybe spoiled it when he said that masks protect YOU when we all know they do not.

Pub I had chosen for lunch in Erith wasn’t serving food, nice friendly landlord though who was very apologetic. May be opening for food in September – ‘but you will be dead by then’. So lunch was in the Wellington outside Waterloo. Apart from having to give my name and phone number at the door, and a rather reduced menu, it was very much normal and not a mask in sight. In fact the whole day was very much as normal once you left the trains.

I won’t have time to scan all the comment made today in the last thread.

96362 ▶▶ annie, replying to davews, 3, #136 of 785 🔗

Glad you had such a nice day. THEY hate the thought if anybody enjoying themselves, so you’ve poked them well and truly in the eye.
Hole you didn’t give the pub your real name!

96669 ▶▶ PWL, replying to davews, 4, #137 of 785 🔗

But you realise, don’t you, that you are facilitating a “produce your papers” system?

96770 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to PWL, 2, #138 of 785 🔗

Yes, but I don’t know a way around this that doesn’t lead to constant confrontations, or in my case, an inability to ride the bus. I’ve seen several other women thrown off the bus who were not wearing lanyards. I tried to stick up for one of them, but she was still thrown off.

96818 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #139 of 785 🔗

I thought that lanyards were not compulsory

96937 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to arfurmo, #140 of 785 🔗

Indeed they are not. But in the case of the mask inspector on the train yesterday it avoided any argument, a nice smile as he passed rather than an inquest. Seems to work in Tesco as well, you get a nice ‘how are you today’ from the checkout lady instead of silence – and I seem to be able to gravitate towards the only unmasked checkout for some reason.

I like to think I am observing government guidance on masks – they even give you a nice card at the bottom to print out….

96335 Simon Dutton, 5, #141 of 785 🔗

Plandemic 2 is now available:


You are also encouraged to download the movie, share with friends (especially with Believers, I would suggest!), and repost it elsewhere under a different title to thwart the censors.

96343 Dan, replying to Dan, 95, #142 of 785 🔗

I’m a London bus driver and I don’t tell anyone to wear a mask on my bus in fact I cringe even at the prospect that I might be expected to do so (polite reminder to passengers) is the official line on the internal memo we all got but both tfl and our childish mayor can fuck off I’m not there to infringe on people’s freedoms only to ferry them safely from A to B

96433 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dan, 15, #144 of 785 🔗

Three hearty cheers for Dan!

96452 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dan, 7, #145 of 785 🔗

Well done!!!

96637 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dan, 4, #146 of 785 🔗

Good job soldier!

96345 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #147 of 785 🔗

Project fear has succeeded.
Fear of health consequences from C-19 versus actual mortality data by age bracket

96523 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, #148 of 785 🔗

How about this comment?

I don’t understand what this is supposed to prove. Seems reasonable there’s be an inverse correlation between % concerned and % killed, because concern is associated with taking measures to prevent the spread of the virus. Someone help me out here


96644 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, #149 of 785 🔗

That is interesting. I am amazed that people who are employed to sell vaccines get training on how to deal with vocal anti-vaxxers….SPECIFIC TRAINING. I have downloaded this and will give it a good read tomorrow. Incredible….They have this all so worked out don’t they.

96346 Basics, 8, #150 of 785 🔗

Propaganda watch! Corbett report. Always interesting to review propaganda. This (roughly) week’s version is a cracker. He examines the downloadable WHO briefing resource for public speakers who are up against a so called vaccine denier.


The term ‘denier’ is clearly a label chosen deliberately from another era. Don’t let that put you off, it’s much broader than vaccines are bad mkay.

Corbett clearly sets down his opinion at the beginning which is reasonable – no one has any right to tell anyone to vaccinate or not, it is a personal choice.

Examining the document gives insights into how media operates and reveals some tricks and tactics public health speakers use.

The WHO resource is found here if you prefer not to watch a video critique: https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/vaccines-and-immunization/publications/2016/best-practice-guidance-how-to-respond-to-vocal-vaccine-deniers-in-public-2017

96347 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 4, #151 of 785 🔗

If only this were the worst of our problems eh? 🤦🏻‍♂️

96367 ▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 13, #152 of 785 🔗

Prawns ( let panic so inspire us)
Always carry coronavirus,
Lobsters are deadly; langoustines
Are a dead cert for quarantines.
But those nasty Covid imps
Never seem to dwell in shrimps.
So share your shrimps with your best friend,
And leave the prawns to their sad end.

96372 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 2, #153 of 785 🔗

The muse is with you this week, Annie

96396 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to annie, 2, #154 of 785 🔗

Your Ode to Cov book should be coming along now!

96429 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 4, #155 of 785 🔗

Look out for my Collected Works.

96436 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to annie, 2, #156 of 785 🔗

Annie, you are wasted on here. You need to be published far and wide! Great work 😆

96490 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RDawg, #157 of 785 🔗

A weekly column in a national newspaper, perhaps?

96470 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to annie, 3, #158 of 785 🔗

Our very own Covid Poet Laureate. Well done, Annie. You inspire us all.

96684 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Fiat, #159 of 785 🔗

You are destined for Westminster Abbey, Poets Corner.

96738 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, #160 of 785 🔗

Right alongside William McGonagall!

96529 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #161 of 785 🔗

Great stuff. You need to come out with your book of verse!

96683 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 2, #162 of 785 🔗

I just thought that it would be a good idea to have some standup comics participate on the 29th of August, 2020. Get the crowd laughing at the people who imposed this mess on everybody.

96355 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #163 of 785 🔗

Was it something I said?

96360 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Tom Blackburn, #164 of 785 🔗


96363 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #165 of 785 🔗

It looks to me like you were the two millionth and one person to ask that very question!

96376 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 2, #166 of 785 🔗

lol but I had a follow up question

96450 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tom Blackburn, #167 of 785 🔗

She probably doesn’t know the answer and is not aware of the exemptions and the Equalities Act.

96649 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tom Blackburn, #168 of 785 🔗


96368 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #169 of 785 🔗

Another museum to boycott. This landed on my inbox:

Science Museum is now open! Visit the Science Museum

We have now re-opened our doors and we are delighted to welcome you back. Head to our website to book your free museum admission tickets and find out how you can have a safe and inspiring visit .

Here’s the link to their “safety” measures:


“Safe and inspiring”?? No thanks. I would rather eat a lightbulb.

96371 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #170 of 785 🔗

The sole, singular reason for visiting the science museum is how good the kids’ bit is.

But we can’t let people touch stuff now, so that’s a no-no

96377 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 6, #171 of 785 🔗

Exactly so what’s the point?

That’s the problem now with these museums and heritage sites – the interactive stuff either has been taken away or roped off so there’s not really much to engage children even adults with the place that they’re visiting.

96378 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #172 of 785 🔗

Wouldn’t fine hour be spent examining at length ‘the science behind the safety?’ Hatching a plot as I type, suggest post 29th march bookings may be made to discuss science with the science museum.

Eating a light bulb in protest would draw things to a close admirably I’d say!

96415 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #173 of 785 🔗

Good idea. Perhaps we should challenge TPTB that run the museum about ‘the science behind the safety?’ We have a few good commenters here that could be our representatives in this debate.

That said I suspect they will chicken out if faced with the likes of Biker, Awkward Git, RDawg, Scotty87, Poppy, your good self, etc.

96453 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #174 of 785 🔗

I nothing but a bulb muncher. But your meaning is correct a bunch of LS ragtags at the door of science discussing safety, or trojan horsing their way in side then discussing. I see grand things!

96685 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #175 of 785 🔗

Junk Science Museum.

97446 ▶▶ Carlo, replying to Bart Simpson, #176 of 785 🔗

We need to right to museums to tell them we will not visit until we can go un-muzzled.

96370 matt, 6, #177 of 785 🔗


Any sensible way for those of us who are going to arrange to meet en route? I don’t know any of you in reality, obviously, but it would be good to have a representative group.

96374 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #178 of 785 🔗

Sing! Sing! Sing!

Us Welshies are happy at this news.


96375 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #179 of 785 🔗

So let’s have singing allowed in churches again then!

96389 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 5, #180 of 785 🔗

My friend in Ely diocese tells me it is being considered, so long as it’s only the choir that sings and not the congregation.
Well, it’s a start.
A poor one, but for the crawling, servile, cowardly C of E it is something.
I expect the choir sill have to sing through its face nappies.

96392 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Carrie, 2, #181 of 785 🔗

I see we have some great Wesley hymns in our service on Sunday. Pity we will just have to listen in silence

96616 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to davews, #182 of 785 🔗

Shout for joy to the Lord, all the earth.

Worship the Lord with gladness; come before him with joyful songs.

96736 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #183 of 785 🔗


96686 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to davews, #184 of 785 🔗

Lip-synching hymns.

96383 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #185 of 785 🔗

Typical BBC crap

“ Singing does not produce substantially more respiratory particles than speaking at a similar volume, a study suggests.
But it all depends on how loud a person is, according to the initial findings which are yet to be peer reviewed.”

Suggests. Depends. Not peer reviewed.

Good news bad. Bad news good.

96395 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 1, #186 of 785 🔗

Pretext for closing pubs and keeping nightclubs shut?

96398 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #187 of 785 🔗

It’s coming.

97006 ▶▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #188 of 785 🔗

I expect the UK gov will copy other countries on that front too and open them but forbid people from dancing.


96614 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #189 of 785 🔗

We don’t want choir members dying from covid ….

96382 annie, replying to annie, 13, #190 of 785 🔗

From the article on (inter alia)Australian vaccine totalitarianism:

‘In New Zealand , about 500 extra defence force personnel will be deployed to quarantine hotels, making a total military deployment of 1,200 to combat the latest outbreak in the country which saw six new cases on Wednesday.’

So: 200 soldiers to fight valiantly against each new ‘case’.
Plucky little Kiwis, ain’t they?

96388 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to annie, 5, #191 of 785 🔗

The rugby team is going to look like idiots from now on doing the haka

96394 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to mhcp, #192 of 785 🔗

If only any of the other major teams could look them in the eyes and feel superior.

96409 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to mhcp, 2, #193 of 785 🔗

In masks especially

96407 ▶▶ Edward, replying to annie, 1, #194 of 785 🔗

“Look out – there’s a virus coming towards you! Take aim – fire!”

96390 RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #195 of 785 🔗

I note the Lionel Shriver article cited above :

The crucial variable with Covid-19 isn’t ethnicity – it’s fat ‘ “

Of course. It’s not. It’s age and co-morbidities.

Hobby-horse riding is not a great response to the fictions surround us.

96402 ▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 1, #196 of 785 🔗

It’s age and co-morbidities and obesity is a major factor in many of the co-morbities. I think she’s winging it, rather than being flat wrong. I’m deeply suspicious of the direct correlation between race and risk.

96558 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to RickH, 2, #197 of 785 🔗

The ONS reports that 25% of Covid-related deaths had dementia or alzheimer’s. Those two are the top two causes of death normally. If you add all the other normal causes of death, then you account for perhaps 75% of all Covid related deaths. That doesn’t leave very many for other attributable correlations like “obesity”, unless people were obese with dementia.

96401 Julian, replying to Julian, 4, #198 of 785 🔗

The Tilbrook legal case looks promising. I skim read it and it’s quite pithy – more so than the Dolan one. Fingers crossed.

96484 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #199 of 785 🔗

Be interesting to see if Tilbrook gets a Judicial review this time – last time he brought a case he was denied one by the same judge who is due to hear Simon Dolan’s appeal – Judge Hickinbottom.

96405 Julian, replying to Julian, 10, #200 of 785 🔗

Question: From a lockdown sceptic POV, Biden or Trump?

Hitchens in hindsight I think was right that the correct answer to Corbyn or Johnson was neither, but he’s now saying the same about Biden – Trump.

I wasn’t much sold on Trump to start with and he has been a disappointment, on a lot and especially on the virus, where he has flip-flopped and been vague.

But Biden and the Democrats are 100% signed up to the coronapanic narrative. If the world’s most powerful nation goes into full panic mode, the pressure on other countries to fall into line will be immense, as will the example it sets to the public.

So I conclude from a purely Lockdown Sceptic POV, we absolutely want Trump to win.


96408 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Julian, 1, #201 of 785 🔗

I think it depends on your view of where this is all heading. If you think NWO and Agenda 21 etc. then has to be Trump as he is standing in the way. If this is all just huge error then Biden. He would quickly be replaced I think though

96410 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, #202 of 785 🔗

If this is all just huge error then Biden.” What’s your reasoning here? Is he more likely to admit the error?

96411 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Julian, 2, #203 of 785 🔗

Nope, I just think it would all be blamed on Trump and all would end pretty quickly.

96412 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, 6, #204 of 785 🔗

I would more expect Biden and co to do what the PM et al have done here – double down on the lies and perpetuate the fear

For starters it would be a good way for the President to wage war on Red states

96557 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Julian, #205 of 785 🔗

You don’t think Democrats are waging a war already in the US? Seattle, BLM protestors are demanding title of property transferred to them. Portland Oregon, absolute chaos. Adam Haner beaten senseless for his skin colour. N Carolina, 5 year old boy, Cannon Hinnant, shot because of his ‘privilege’. Jessica Whitaker, shot in the back of her head. Family attacked online for her ‘white privilege’. She leaves a young child behind. NYC 42 shootings reported in 1 week, property prices dropping around 50%…

96797 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Not Tiger Woods, #206 of 785 🔗

You don’t think Democrats are waging a war already in the US?”

Of course they are, yes. I guess my point was that the aspect of the war related to the virus would not necessarily stop if the dems win the presidency

96414 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Julian, 3, #207 of 785 🔗

Super difficult question. On the one hand, I honestly believe that covid under a democratic president would have looked a lot more like the swine flu under Obama. That said, though… it sort of depends on whether the world responded to the US or vise versa.

Certainly, the US Media wants to drag this out as long as possible in order to make life seem horrible under Trump.

On the flip side of that, though, is the fact that – not just here, but everywhere – CV19 has been the blank check for would-be tyrants. The governor of my state has declared himself a mini-emperor and is behaving accordingly. The governors of Oregon and California have ramped up their elimination of personal liberty to levels previously unheard of.

I worry that this would get even worse under a Biden administration.

So, it’s a coin toss. Either the Biden election magically heals the world and covid disappears and victory is claimed… or, Biden issues executive orders mandating masks across the entire country, and democratic governors respond by getting even worse (if you give a mouse a cookie). The left has no limiting principle.

The third option is that Trump wins and covid goes away as the media focuses on it’s next attempt at impeachment, which will carry us through 2024.

96421 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RyanM, 3, #208 of 785 🔗

Are you suggesting the Dems endorsement of coronapanic was basically a way to get at Trump?
You may be right, or it may have been partly that, but it seems to me more likely that it fits in with the way they view the world and the direction they want it to go
But I’m an outsider

96443 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Julian, 7, #209 of 785 🔗

I don’t think that all of the coronavirus was a hoax to get at Trump, no.

But keep in mind the following. Coronavirus really started to take off immediately after the disaster that was the democrat’s impeachment trial. The media has spent the past 4 years hyperventilating about how awful Trump is, and that culminated in one of the best economies we’ve seen in decades while democrats were being made to look like fools crying “russian collusion.”

It was probably not intentional in the sense that it was coordinated, but shifting the narrative to “oh, gawd, how horrible all our lives have become!” was probably something of a no-brainer. And as soon as they realized that panic sells, and that the American people were eating it up unquestioningly, it just had a snowball effect. Life is horrible under Trump, you’re all going to die… also, shut up and do what you’re told, put on a mask, etc…

Anecdotally – I made a bet with a co-worker about when covid would leave our town. Today, she told me that she hopes I’m right, but it’s looking bad. I said “what do you mean?” and she said “did you read the paper, today?” I said “no, I don’t read the paper at all,” and she related some headline about a spike in cases, etc…

So I sat down at her computer and pulled up the county CV19 dashboard and showed her the actual numbers. She was shocked. She said “you’re exactly right, it’s almost gone!” I told her that there is a spike every Monday or Tuesday, when the weekend reporting catches up, but that our deaths had fallen weeks ago and been around zero ever since.

So, why does the paper lie? I don’t know for sure. It’s not just to get at Trump. It’s partly because they aren’t interested in the truth, they are interested in the story , and panic sells. But I do think there is some component of liberals wanting life to be as horrible as possible going into November, knowing that miserable people don’t vote for incumbants.

96498 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RyanM, 5, #210 of 785 🔗

So, why does the paper lie? I don’t know for sure. It’s not just to get at Trump. It’s partly because they aren’t interested in the truth, they are interested in the story, and panic sells. But I do think there is some component of liberals wanting life to be as horrible as possible going into November, knowing that miserable people don’t vote for incumbants .”

Bear in mind that the exact same kind of media lying is going on here, and I understand in Europe, and it really isn’t about Trump there or here. There are separate agendas at play, which end up looking similar because the issues are similar.

96526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Mark, 1, #211 of 785 🔗

Totally agree. That has been my primary reason for saying it isn’t all about Trump… except… inasmuch as Trump is not important because of who he is, but what he came out of. In other words, he is not the cause, but he is a consequence… and I think you are going through the exact same thing in the UK. So no, it’s not about Trump, but it is very much a liberal/conservative worldview or a liberty/tyranny dichotomy at play, here, and the media in Europe isn’t much different from the media in the US.

96559 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Mark, #212 of 785 🔗

What’s the endgame though? if it’s a currency reset heading towards a cashless / digital future (which the Bank of England Governor has certainly suggested publicly, at least in replacement of the dollar as the world reserve currency) then a weakened Trump could become a very useful scapegoat for destroying the historic dollar…?

96990 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Not Tiger Woods, #213 of 785 🔗

The endgames are surely different for the different players…

96653 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RyanM, #214 of 785 🔗

Agenda 2030. Carbon Zero 2050, the new normal, the global reset, no bank loans for you if you don’t comply. That’s it really.

96417 ▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #215 of 785 🔗

Tricky. Despite his clownish public persona, Trump’s presidency has been far from a disaster. He’s more sceptical on balance, but he seems to have been playing the vote winning game by toning it down lately. Deliberately or accidentally, he’s a political genius, because he’s managed to make his opposition look even more shrill and unbalanced than he is. Biden is unproven and I’m scratching my head trying to work out why nobody seems to have noticed that his dementia is fairly advanced.

It hinges on the question of: to what degree is what’s happening in the US in terms of coronavirus response a deliberate anti-trump action? Sub questions being a) if Trump gets elected, does it get worse or does it go away? b) if Biden gets elected, does he abandon himself wholesale to the insanity, or does he declare it over and start getting on with things? and c) to what degree is the madness in the rest of the world driven by what’s happening in the US?

96494 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 4, #216 of 785 🔗

Biden is unproven and I’m scratching my head trying to work out why nobody seems to have noticed that his dementia is fairly advanced .”

Everyone has. It’s a standing joke on Fox that the VP pick is the real future President if the Dems win.

96655 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark, #217 of 785 🔗


96631 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #218 of 785 🔗

Just watched the VDH interview posted below by AN other lockdown sceptic, and there’s a good example of what seems to be fairly common US conservative thinking about Biden’s condition. He basically sees it as an established fact that Biden cannot govern, or even campaign properly. (VDH is a bit on the neocon side at times, but very sharp nonetheless).

His view is that the Biden/Harris ticket is the Democrats’ way of addressing their particular inherent problem – an old guard of relatively moderate establishment party grandees who are too powerful to overthrow and an unelectable but highly energetic hard left party faithful. The former (Biden) will reassure voters and win the election by not being Trump, while the latter will stay loyal because they know their real fellow ideologue Harris will be in power shortly after the election.

So the Democrat Party hierarchy and its media accomplices will carry Biden over the line, and then undermine him and get him set aside as incapable of ruling. Basically using the 25th Amendment as they made noises about doing against Trump at one point, but this time full of faux pity and regret.

The discussion of Biden’s condition starts at around 11:40 into the interview, with the interviewer expressing his own view:

Victor Davis Hanson On The Covid Pandemic Response, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden’s Health And November .

96754 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #219 of 785 🔗

Thanks for that. Interesting. Very plausible.

96419 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 4, #220 of 785 🔗

Agree. I also think a second-term Trump will be very different to a first-term Trump – he will be more hawkish (although hopefully without the military zeal of the neo-cons). I agree with Jeffrey Gundlach that Trump will win (silent majority). Kamala Harris was the wrong choice for Vice-President – she does not speak to the ‘people of colour’ – and Biden has blotted his copy book with many with his previous (condescending) comments. The more Democrat women who speak out that Biden is great, in full knowledge of his perv tendencies, the worse it plays.

96430 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #221 of 785 🔗

I tend to hope he will win and be more conservative and more consistent. And yes, no more wars please. To be fair, he’s started fewer than some of his predecessors

96465 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 2, #222 of 785 🔗

Exactly. I recall a conversation with a very woke, politically active friend (don’t ask!) four years ago, and recall she was aghast when I said the main problem with a Hillary win would be that we would have full-scale war in the Middle East.

96488 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #223 of 785 🔗

That was my assumption, if Clinton had won. Trump did enough sabre rattling and bombing to keep the neocon nutters in their box, and pulled out of the Iran deal, but never seemed interested in going over the line. Clinton was the type to giggle about murdering enemy leaders.

96657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark, #224 of 785 🔗


96527 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #225 of 785 🔗

Which could easily have led to a war with Russia since they are allied with Assad in Syria.

96457 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #226 of 785 🔗

I feel that there is a very strong possibility of a silent majority. Blame media overreach, which is exactly what happened in 2020, when Obama got a free pass for 4 years, and then they gave up all pretenses with Hillary. BLM and CV19, essentially… people in the middle are made extremely uneasy by both of these things, and liberals have shown their hand. But these are also people who don’t tweet about it or wear maga hats… but they get to vote in private, even if they put the stupid black square on their facebook profiles.

96475 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RyanM, 1, #227 of 785 🔗

My worry is the postal voting and the possibilities that offers to rig the whole election in favour of Biden – is anything being done to stop that happening?

96496 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Carrie, 4, #228 of 785 🔗

I live in WA state. In 2008, we had an election in which the Republican won by a narrow margin. The state did a “recount,” and miraculously found thousands of mail-in votes in the trunk of a car… all of which happened to be for the democrat.

I do believe in voter fraud, and I also believe it happens primarily, if not exclusively, on the left. This is not because I’m distrustful of the other side… it is just a product of self-selection. Unions are virtually all on the left, the media is all on the left, etc…

But – consider that Hillary still managed to lose, and there have not been many more corrupt families in the US than the Clintons. So, corruption can only work on the margins. Unless it’s close, you cannot fake it.

96562 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #229 of 785 🔗

Very telling that news reports showing interviews in the US (with African-Americans) they clearly are struggling seriously to find someone on team Harris…one pointing out that she is all establishment and there is no hope with her. Another pointed out her record when California AG & she balked when ordered to free prisoners from exceptionally minor charges, many minorities & African-Americans were among these groups, she called them a good source of “cheap labour!”

96423 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Julian, 5, #230 of 785 🔗

Without doubt Trump has been the strangest President in US history.

He blows hot and cold for me with virtually every policy decision. Defunding the WHO, then funding GAVI. Recommending hydroxychloroquine, then putting the US military on standby to distribute the Covid vaccine in a “forceful way”. Withdrawing from the Paris climate treaty, then presiding over the largest expansion of the money supply in US history.

Despite all this, I would still prefer a second Trump term to Biden. The Democrats are completely insane and have been thoroughly infiltrated by communists. If they get in, I don’t think the USA will survive as a nation state. We will see Balkanisation into regions and probably a civil war.

If I’m being honest I don’t think there is actually going to be an election on 3rd November. Trump is going to be the last president. Naturally I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

96427 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard O, 4, #231 of 785 🔗

We will see Balkanisation into regions and probably a civil war.”

It seems to be going that way.

I’m an outsider but it looks to me like the federal govt has ended up with far more power than was the original intention, and that part of the point of the US, which was people who wanted to pursue their own way of doing things with minimal interference, has been lost

96428 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, #232 of 785 🔗

Last time this theory was tested, it didn’t work very well for anyone.

96434 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, #233 of 785 🔗

Excuse my ignorance, which is close to boundless, when was this?

96440 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, #234 of 785 🔗


96481 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #235 of 785 🔗

Turns out a voluntary union is no longer necessarily voluntary once you’ve signed up to it (EU enthusiasts please note).

96513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, #236 of 785 🔗

The growth of government is always a lobster trap, at whatever level.

96442 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Julian, 4, #237 of 785 🔗

My friends in the States tell me that the Federal government under Trump is a paper tiger. The schism between the red/blue state governors in response to Covid (e.g. Kristi Noem in South Dakota versus Andrew Cuomo in New York) has widened an already vast divide into an unbridgeable chasm.

Notice how the governors (and their equivalent in other countries) have become far more prominent political figures this year. If you had asked me in January who any of them were I would not have been able to name a single one. To me this is a cultural shift which presages the breakup of Western nation states. The same applies in the UK of course.

The big thing about the USA of course is that the citizens are armed to the teeth. If a civil war breaks out it will be an absolute bloodbath. Not good.

96454 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Richard O, 1, #238 of 785 🔗

conservatives are armed to the teeth… I’m not sure how much of a blood bath it would really be.

96461 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to RyanM, #239 of 785 🔗

Very true, and I can testify to personal evidence of this. One friend who is (albeit very broadly) a conservative lives in a rural area and owns 30 guns with 50,000 rounds of ammunition. Another is a liberal who lives in a big city and to my knowledge has never owned a gun in his life.

96479 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard O, #240 of 785 🔗

But most likely conservatives will be divided with those unwilling to resist authority being turned against those willing to resist, demonised (whether they are or not) as “far right”, “racist” etc.

96485 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Mark, #241 of 785 🔗

Also true. That is why CV19 is an eye-opener. Go to National Review and look at what this “conservative” think tank is saying… it is absolutely awful. I had always hoped that the mere fact of gun ownership would stop a tyrannical government (or a civil war), but CV19 has given me some pause…

96482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Richard O, 1, #242 of 785 🔗

I am one of those conservatives with about as many guns (though several are collector’s guns, like my 1920’s walther mod. 9) and multiple thousands of rounds… and I carry a pistol most days (granted, that is partly job-related). I don’t know of any liberal friends with guns. In fact, I had one funny interaction with a liberal acquaintance, where it came up that I owned guns, and she said “remind me to never let my kid go to your house.” As if the guns would grow legs and seek him out. Liberals are afraid of guns for the same reason they are terrified of CV19. Ignorance.

96504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to RyanM, 2, #243 of 785 🔗

I had one of the most enjoyable days of my life with the gun owner. We drove out into the middle of nowhere with a wide variety of weapons and did target practice at random objects in the landscape. Not a soul to be seen for miles in all directions. We were drinking beer throughout as well. Probably the most free and safe I have ever felt. Not a popular opinion where I live, but I couldn’t care less.

97486 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Richard O, 1, #244 of 785 🔗

I grew up in Montana, and that was my life. Two weeks ago, my family drove up to Montana (12 hours from where I live in WA) and there were two days that I spent with my two boys (6 and 8) where we did nothing but sit by a lake for about 6 hours, fishing. We caught several rainbow trout, brought them home, and fried them for dinner. It was absolutely beautiful – not a human being as far as you could see, and the three of us just fishing for the whole day. Now that was a welcome break from the covid madness that has swept the world, and a good reminder of what our lives are supposed to be like. And my boys absolutely loved it. Even after six hours of fishing, they were upset when we had to leave.

96539 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RyanM, #245 of 785 🔗

Liberals are afraid of guns for the same reason they are terrified of CV19. Ignorance.

One of the great coinages from your gun prohibition debates: hoplophobia.

I used to shoot pistols here when it was practical to do so. Those days will likely never return.

96584 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #246 of 785 🔗

I’m not so sure. Whichever way the current bollocks finally comes to an end, things will be different in quite a few ways.

96651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 1, #247 of 785 🔗

Nice to be optimistic, but I see no route to a return to our old robust culture. “We” collectively (our nation’s ruling elite classes, and the culture they set) are now basically US Democrats – scared to take responsibility for personal protection, unwilling to allow others to do so for themselves, refusing to condemn criminals and let them face consequences that their choices earn for themselves, as irrationally frightened of weapons as we are collectively easily panicked about other theoretical or remote threats.

96459 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 5, #248 of 785 🔗

Your point about the new prominence of politicians is crucial.
Suddenly, legions of squalid nonentities, petty, talentless little closet Nazis, mini Hitlers, sneaks, bullies and cowards have been turned into godlike figures who can make the zombie millions grovel at their feet.
Covid is the best thing that could possibly have happened to them.
Covid gone ( as it will) and the gallows awaits them.

96477 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to annie, 4, #249 of 785 🔗

Great comparison. I am reminded of the Gauleiters in the Third Reich. They had extraordinary powers and ran their areas like medieval fiefdoms. Crucially, they reported directly to Hitler so could completely bypass the inner circle of Himmler, Goering, Goebbels, Heydrich etc. They were all mediocre men who would have otherwise led completely undistinguished lives. And fucking sadistic, murdering bastards.

96491 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Richard O, 5, #250 of 785 🔗

It is human nature, and those people are everywhere. All across the US you can read about people “reporting” on businesses who don’t force mask compliance. In my town, a lady walked all through a grocery store, taking pictures of anyone not wearing a mask and posted these to the newspaper’s facebook, which they published! Cowardly citizens who are eager to turn on each other have never been in short supply, and today is no different.

96687 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RyanM, 2, #251 of 785 🔗

Someone should have grabbed her phone, thrown it on the floor and stomped on it. Problem solved.

96659 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 1, #252 of 785 🔗

This is to do with the mayoral agenda. CIty states, all feeding into central government, who feed into world government structures. No more nation states. A world government. The UK has “re-purposed” it’s self already. The UK column covered this in depth recently. Central government, right down to the street level.

96662 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 1, #253 of 785 🔗

Also, the idea that badly trained and equipped armed resistance can counter the government is ridiclous.
They have air power, Apache helicopters, bombers, ground attack aircraft, the ARMY. Yer any resistance will be dealt with EASILY.

96688 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Two-Six, 1, #254 of 785 🔗

Urban guerilla warfare.

97490 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Two-Six, 1, #255 of 785 🔗

While this is true, you assume that the army would be inclined to fight citizens, and also that the army could effectively do so when ordinary civilians are thrown into the mix. Consider the problems they’ve had in the middle east. Also – the point of an armed resistance in the US wouldn’t be to defeat an organized army, but to make it politically impossible to take certain actions against the citizenry.

98055 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #256 of 785 🔗

Like in Vietnam ?

96449 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Richard O, 1, #257 of 785 🔗

🙂 No, there will be an election in November. Trump may very well win… and he may very well lose… but there will be an election.

96565 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Richard O, #258 of 785 🔗

Agree with your points. Though don’t forget lots of Democrats recommended hydroxychloroquine – not for anybody else, but for themselves. Such as Paul Vallone New York). Karen Whitset said she’d be dead without it. One time VP hopeful pick Amy Klobuchar, ferociously trashed Trump for mentioning it…she did not ferociously attack her husband for mentioning it, nor taking it, it was one of the first things he made sure he got when he had symptoms.

96426 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Julian, 5, #259 of 785 🔗

At the start of this, I wish I had started a note book / journal, if I had done, it would have been titled ‘things I never thought I would say’…still feels a bit weird saying this (given before this I always thought I was a left of centre liberalist type) – yep, I want Trump to win. If Biden got in, he would be soon found to be unfit for office due to his dementia and killery and big mike would step up – eeh Gods!!!

96486 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kath Andrews, #260 of 785 🔗

Nicely put.

96455 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #261 of 785 🔗

Trump *is* a total dick.

But even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

The problem is that the alternative is totally abysmal.

It’s a problem of comparison – not of a need to revise the assessment of Trump.

96456 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Julian, #262 of 785 🔗

Victor Davis Hanson on “The Case For Trump”

His book of the same title is very good too.

Blurb from above interview:

How did blue-collar voters connect with a millionaire from Queens in the 2016 election? Martin and Illie Anderson Senior fellow Victor Davis Hanson addresses that question and more in his newly released book, The Case for Trump. He sits down with Peter Robinson to chat about his motivation to write a book making a rational case for those voters who chose Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton.

96462 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, #263 of 785 🔗

Trump. Because a decision between the two must be made.
Search creepy joe.
Absolutely not much of a choice for the 300(?) Million possible candidates. Trump appears to have done less war than recent democrats. There’s a sense of you know what you are getting with trump. Biden appears to be not mentally well at times from the little I see.

Is biden seen as unleashing woke left on steroids? That is a reason to not go his way.

Lastly, I’ve picked up a distancing from the clintons are they finally toxic?

96567 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Basics, #264 of 785 🔗

They’ve been fighting in court to get the Secret Service records of at least 25-26 trips by the Clintons to Epstein island. If Trump makes it to a second term I suspect all bets are off……

96463 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 2, #265 of 785 🔗

Question: From a lockdown sceptic POV, Biden or Trump ?”

Trump,obviously. The Democrats have pushed the panic button at every opportunity, and will continue to do so. Trump’s instincts were sound on it, just like Johnson’s were here, it’s just neither of them had the brains or the character to resist the panic and the political winds blowing for lockdown.

Hitchens in hindsight I think was right that the correct answer to Corbyn or Johnson was neither, but he’s now saying the same about Biden – Trump .”

If you are asking whom to actively support, that might be reasonable – the lesser of two evils is still evil. The answer is to throw your support to a third party or withhold it until a worthy recipient comes along. But that’s a separate question from which is the least worst result, and in that case neither is not a viable response, unless you think it’s an improbable tie.

Johnson was clearly a less bad result than Corbyn, if only because the Labour Party is far more dangerous than the “Conservative” Party. The latter are politically correct, but mostly in a weak, lily-livered manner, rather than the enthusiastic totalitarianism of Labour apparatchiks. And obviously a Corbyn win would have seen Brexit sabotaged.

In the US, Trump is clearly far less bad than Biden (actually Harris because Biden is, as you say, incapable and in reality it’s the Democrat VP that is the real candidate). Harris is particularly poisonous, and the Democrats are like Labour here, fanatically “woke”.

And there’s the ultimate argument for Trump – it will annoy incredibly all the people who most desperately need to be annoyed – the arrogant, slimy, corrupt, sanctimonious, woke-obsessed globalist elites who still can’t believe they not only lost to Trump but haven’t managed to get him out despite all their dirty tricks and lawfare.

And, of course, Trump won’t get anything done (that’s generally a good thing as far as central government is concerned) because the Dems control the judiciary and the media, pretty much. Whereas Harris will have the courts and media in her pocket from the start. Any resistance will have to be on the streets, not within the establishment as it was against Trump..

96466 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 3, #266 of 785 🔗

Biden is creepy – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H5NJZMDumY
(clip is a compilation from a photo session where he touches *masses* of young girls inappropriately)

96483 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, #267 of 785 🔗

Yes, he certainly is creepy, and possibly worse in Tara Reade’s account. ‘Slick Willy’ also has a pretty unpleasant past in that regard too. Trump may have said several unpleasant things, but saying and doing are quite different. It seems most Democrat women cannot distinguish – their hate for Trump is so extreme they are prepared to overlook it.

96512 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Julian, 2, #268 of 785 🔗

More interesting to me than Trump/Biden is in retrospect Johnson/Corbyn. I think Boris & me would agree on this, Corbyn every time! He & McDonnell would never have borrowed as much as Sunak. Corbyn would have been in an unstable coalition with Sturgeon, the price being IndyRef2 so Jocks off, NI off.
Same jokers advising on covid so same balls up.
Coalition would unravel by spring 2021, Boris in on a landslide. Fantasy politics, so easy.

96515 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Julian, #269 of 785 🔗

Doesn’t matter. Same result either way. Any way – the fixed result will be Trump wins, followed by a tide of riots from antifa goons, heralding martial law.

96703 ▶▶ rational actor, replying to Julian, 1, #270 of 785 🔗

American here. Vote Trump.

Biden has already said that he wants the whole country in facemasks for 3 months. Apart from the fact that he does not have the authority to do this, as it is a state matter, he is not discussing any evidence that would support this wild idea. It is also simply loopy to think that a country as large as the US should be subjected to a single unvarying policy where batflu is concerned. North Dakota and Florida have little in common, so why should they be subject to the same public health regime? This is why federalism exists in the first place, but Sleepy Joe apparently knows better.

There’s also the fact that Joe is off his tree and in no way fit to be president. He is going to be subject to manipulation by whoever gets hold of him first, so by voting for him one would really take a chance on who would be de facto president. Oddly enough the media don’t cover what a friend of mine calls obvious elder abuse in shoving Joe in front of cameras and making him talk. I guess this would come down to how lucky you feel.

96771 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Julian, #271 of 785 🔗

I loath Trump, but he is good entertainment value and he hasn’t started any wars. For the first time I heard this morn I heard Biden speaking and I thought what a pleasing voice – for an American male. So I’m a bit indifferent twixt the two – but obviously I’ve not thought deeply enough.

96946 ▶▶ peter, replying to Julian, #272 of 785 🔗

Trump nailed it at the very beginning; calling it out as a hoax but the TV networks done a job on millions of minds so he had to vitrue signal the zombies.

96971 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 1, #273 of 785 🔗

I say no difference probably. From a general point of view, not being American and with no right (correctly so) to vote in their Presidential Election, it’s a matter of supreme indifference who wins. Diplomatically, as an ally, and as a trading partner, we have to deal with whoever wins as a country, whatever you think of them in private.

And the same goes for every other country too. This is why you do not involve yourself in another country’s election, civil war, or duel at twenty paces – however they settle things – but just make friends with the winner.

96420 Klein, replying to Klein, 16, #274 of 785 🔗

I’ve now gone 10 days barebacking into every establishment, haven’t had a word spoken to me.
I’m definitely shopping less though – at this time of year I’d spend a good bit of time in garden centres looking for plants, can’t be arsed with the hassle now.
Interesting anecdote – I was in B&Q buying some sealant, and heard my name. It turned out to be a fella I played football with, real nice guy. He actually took his mask off completely to talk to me, and was almost embarrassed to have had it on.

Another mate of mine said he was in a shop in a more ‘rough’ area, and not one person in the shop out of about 10 people had a mask on.
We share daily bareback updates – twice he’s been in a shop with no mask and there’s been a couple of peelers in there, they didn’t say a word to him either time. I imagine they’d prefer to stay out of it..

96541 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Klein, 3, #275 of 785 🔗

Could be a whole new genre opening up for going ‘commando’.

96671 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Klein, 2, #276 of 785 🔗

Coppers came into my favourite Covid relaxed transport cafe the other day, they went to the takeaway counter for coffees, unmasked.

96425 annie, replying to annie, 5, #277 of 785 🔗

Our town has two ugly electronic signboards on its two approaches. Just now they read


Infuriating, nauseating, I give them two fingers whenever I pass them.But they wouldn’t have put the warnings up if people in Tenby hadn’t been ignoring the soc. dis. crap, which they have.
So notices not all bad.

96472 ▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 4, #278 of 785 🔗

Temporary motorway signs used to be floodlit by power from car batteries. The practice was stopped once it was realised folk were pulling over to take the batteries home as a spare. Can you make use of the generator Annie?

96509 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 2, #279 of 785 🔗

It’s a thought!

96511 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 2, #280 of 785 🔗

I always enjoy Tenby dangerously, clambering about the rocks near the fort.

96561 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #281 of 785 🔗

Aha! It’s you I see defying death daily!

96571 ▶▶ Klein, replying to annie, 1, #282 of 785 🔗

I’ve seen one: “Face coverings – wear one for everyone”
Gonna start giving them the finger now, good idea.

96431 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #283 of 785 🔗

My Carl Vernon “Man to sheep” t shirt has arrived!!! Looking forward to wearing it.

Am unable to post a photo of my tee here but here’s the link to see what it looks like and if you want to buy one:

96446 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #284 of 785 🔗

Mine has shipped and looking forward to wearing it also.

96510 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sarigan, 2, #285 of 785 🔗

Brilliant I need that t shirt! I’m booked for his No Sheep allowed tour in Sept/oct.

96432 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 27, #286 of 785 🔗

The rather flimsy ” evidence ” used to justify mandatory face masks is they ” might ” protect another person . Even the shrillest propagandist for mandatory masks knows not to claim that they offer any protection to the actual wearer . I see it as rather strange then ,when walking in the open air when I come across one of these masked zombies. I often wonder what is going through their minds . I think most of them are trapped in a mental loop ; stuck in March 2020 . The hysteria has deeply engraved their minds.

One of the saddest sights to me in the last fortnight was to see a masked 4 year old child with their masked parents in the surgery. I read that in Washington DC the Mayor had mandated masks for children over the age of two. This is worse than arbitrary insanity it is child abuse.

There is however a little ray of hope. The authorities in Wales have held the line against mandatory face masks for over 6 weeks now. It might not last but the longer it does the more confidence it gives to those who view mandatory face mask as a absurd over reaction which has no justification.

96441 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #287 of 785 🔗

Bus update from Cardiff – my complaint with the bus company I shall name as ‘not Cardiff Bus’ is still rumbling on…I will pursue this to the end even though I suspect they think I may drop it. I won’t. Caught a bus today in to work with ‘not Cardiff Bus’ and the driver challenged me for not wearing a mask etc – but, once I explained the law (in a neutral, calm, matter of fact way, showing him the gov legislation on my phone) he was super reasonable – not much of a win, but a little something.

96460 ▶▶ court, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #288 of 785 🔗

Wales is my only salvation at the moment. I try to get over the bridge once a week just to wander around Chepstow or Monmouth and remember what my own market town in England used to be like.

96502 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to court, 2, #289 of 785 🔗

I’m thanking my lucky stars I moved back here from the east midlands a few years ago…

96572 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to court, 1, #290 of 785 🔗

me too – i’m going over the bridge from bristol to cardiff on saturday to have some semi normality while shopping…thank god they scrapped the bridge fees!! 🙂

96497 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #291 of 785 🔗

Flimsy evidence for asymptomatic spread(and face maks)
Transmission of 2019-nCoV Infection from an Asymptomatic Contact in Germany
 This was published very early on in the pandemic. Published in the prestigious New Eng J Med. Now in the medical literature of transmission of C-19 from an asymptomatic. Impressive. Authors got one tick box more for their CV. The problem is that it was not true. A journalist interviewed this visiting female Chinese business partner. She had had slight illness with low grade fever in Germany but wanted to fulfil her business schedule. It just became worse on the flight back. Don’t have a current link for this news item but no comment on this in the published paper.

96503 ▶▶ matt, replying to Peter Thompson, 12, #292 of 785 🔗

I just wanted to say that I’m aware that you’ve had to field a good deal of anti-medic abuse here and you don’t often get a lot of support. I generally don’t post a reply to what you say because I never feel the need to argue with or add to what you’re saying, though I appreciate it. Keep fighting the good fight with the rest of us.

96530 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 5, #293 of 785 🔗

I’ll second all that. Peter Thompson is one of the names I expect quality content from when I see it here. (In fairness, there are quite a few).

96435 alw, replying to alw, 10, #294 of 785 🔗

Went to Tesco Metro today to buy some milk. Everyone wearing masks 😭 . No milk so went to corner shop further down. No one wearing masks and plenty of milk.

Later attended funeral at crematorium where rule was for masks. Very few wearing including undertakers.

96674 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to alw, 1, #295 of 785 🔗

Seems to be a common theme, corner shops & convenience stores relaxed about masks bigger stores less so.

97036 ▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to karenovirus, #296 of 785 🔗

My experience too. Before the mandate the only place I saw people masked up were the bigger stores (places like B&Q, Costco etc).

Last week during the 33 degree weather my local Tesco lost power to it’s fridges so I walked round to a corner shop nearby and the owner was stood outside no mask on because of the heat, exchanging pleasantries with me and 2 women walking in, one was wearing a mask the other was not, and the one wearing it quickly took it off in a relieved manner. If I was a gambling man I’d say the majority in stores only wear them out of fear of being fined.

96437 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #297 of 785 🔗

I have written to our local Norfolk MP about the EDP article. And referred him to figures that I have too. And demanded to know what is going on and why someone would make such absurd claims.

96506 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #298 of 785 🔗

Excellent. It’s just ridiculous they are promoting this kind of scare mongering – particularly when the last six weeks or so have been full people here on the coast – busier than most people can remember – where’s the second wave !!

96728 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Richard, 2, #299 of 785 🔗

Thank you. I take it you are also in Norfolk. Lucky us as it’s is beautiful.

I was chatting to friends last night who are the same mindset as me but hadn’t realised they could exempt themselves from mask-wearing nor did they know about lockdown skeptics.

One of my friends doesn’t go to supermarket due to masking, so we have agreed to give unmasked together. And we will chat and laugh and smile on our way round. I’ll report back.

I wonder if pairing and grouping up for unmasked trips could be good. Not to be vigilante. That will just cause them and us, but just to model behaviour and peacefully be exempt and quietly share knowledge of exemption with others.

96734 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #300 of 785 🔗

Excellent idea. People behaving like human beings. The zombies have forgotten what that is like.
Can a zombie ever be re-humanised, though?

96439 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #301 of 785 🔗


 The best summary of the situation in Spain 20 th Aug as regards the new cases. More cases 96% mild or asymptomatic. Very nice presented  data by Jose Gefaell

96447 ▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, 2, #302 of 785 🔗

In your opinion, what is going on in Spain? It looks like the beginnings of an epidemic wave in areas that didn’t have the epidemic first time round, but at the same time, there’s no hospitalisation (nearly).also curious as to how the seasonality can be so out of kilter.

96487 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to matt, 2, #303 of 785 🔗

Probably the repressed by lockdown of first wave now in less affected regions also internal tourists infecting Baleares and Canaries,Younger and milder.The Italian Inf Dis lead is soon to publish an article saying the virus has mutated and milder but still old age deaths in Spain but no excess death

96524 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, #304 of 785 🔗

Is that second point true? Coronaviruses don’t mutate quickly. Are we just looking at the reaping being finished?

96547 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to matt, #305 of 785 🔗

Also heard that.But the Italian Inf Lead is to publish paper saying it is milder C-19.We’ll see if this meas mutation

96525 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to matt, 7, #306 of 785 🔗

Where there’s been a 1st wave that’s blown itself out, London, New York, North Italy, no 2nd wave. Where there’s been a suppressed 1st wave, South West England, provincial Spain, southern Italy, New Zealand, the 1st wave might revisit.
Should have been hosting Corona parties for kids all summer to protect the grannies.

96534 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to NickR, 2, #307 of 785 🔗

I more or less have been. Sadly, I live in London, so it’s made no difference.

96570 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to NickR, 2, #308 of 785 🔗

To be fair I doubt there’s many New Yorkers left in the city for any second wave to go…apparently crime is so rife that some stores are reporting that bulletproof vests and personal protection gear is on backorder!

96629 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 3, #309 of 785 🔗

Don’t know if you saw my post early where I had been speaking to a doctor on the front line. This seems to fit in with what he was saying about the virus now behaving different to the virus in March & April. Whereas whatever they did to treat it in March & April did not work such as oxygen therapy and they were helpless to stop people dying, the same treatments for people admitted to hospital are now working and the virus seems much milder.

96444 swedenborg, 6, #310 of 785 🔗

 “More evidence of covid low detection and wider underreported spread. Implication >> lower actual risk of death New Delhi, India’s large capital city of at least 20 million. > 29% seroprevalence > 4,235 reported deaths > 99.93% survival rate

96464 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #311 of 785 🔗

I wrote to me MP today. Got a proper and fast reply – and he’d looked at the link. Good man!

Here’s my email:

Dear Jason McCartney
I’d like to draw your attention to this article by Carl Heneghan and Jason Oke from Oxford University’s Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine:
Their arguments apply universally, but are particularly pertinent to areas in local mockdown.
Please can you tell me how many beds are currently occupied by Covid19 patients in [our local hospital]?
Thanks in advance for putting forward our case when the local restrictions are reviewed again tomorrow.
Yours, xxx

Here’s his response:

Dear xxx,
Thank you for your email and passing on the article.

According to the link in the article you sent there were 5 covid patients at the last count in the two hospitals covered by our Trust, HRI and Calderdale. I would expect they would just use one ward across the trust for all patients in the area covered, to keep down the risk of transmission with such low numbers.

Hopefully we will get some good news tomorrow.

Kind regards,


96620 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #312 of 785 🔗

There are 650,000 people in the area. Total 5 in hospital!

96628 ▶▶▶ Heading home, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #313 of 785 🔗

Also been a reader on this site from the beginning. Also in kirklees. I wrote to Mr. Macartney when the mandatory masks in shops came in. He replied though not sympathetically. Including his rather arrogant remark re losing our future vote that he didn’t need them till 2024 anyway!

97158 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Heading home, #314 of 785 🔗

My house’s previous owners told me he was an idle git who never missed a phot-op.
I’ve therefore been quite impressed that he replies personally to my emails, rather than sending a boilerplate response. Maybe the local mockdown has focused his mind! At least he lives in his constituency.

96467 Ovis, replying to Ovis, 41, #315 of 785 🔗

Spent much of the day at a heavily masked up venue with my children and wife’s family. I was the only adult bare face. The sight of so many faceless people made me feel ill. It played on my asthma, and brought on a sense of physical frailty and impending doom of the kind supposedly associated with heart attack.

Walk in the open this evening, conversations with bare faced dog walkers and others out for a stroll. I realised part way round, to my genuine surprise, that I now felt well.

The psychological impact of these dehumanising compliance rags is real and toxic.

96533 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ovis, 1, #316 of 785 🔗


…. I’ve been out today for the very first time.
I felt like a lad as I walked down the road,
Then I met Old Jones and he said, ‘Well I’m blowed!’
My word you do look queer!

96564 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, #317 of 785 🔗

There’s a famous seaside place called Blackpool, that’s noted for fresh air and fun …. he should go there!

96622 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James Leary #KBF, #318 of 785 🔗

To poke sticks at lions?

96733 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #319 of 785 🔗

He was trying to put a mask on Wallace.

96706 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Ovis, 4, #320 of 785 🔗

“dehumanising compliance rags”

This is the best way of putting it!!

96866 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Ovis, 5, #321 of 785 🔗

I agree. I can’t deal with the faceless people, so I avoid the shops even with my exemption card. It triggers the PTSD that I thought I managed to overcome a few years ago. I was attacked from behind by a person whose face I did not see. Masked people now leave me feeling under attack.

Long-term psychological issues mean that I have essentially cut myself off from almost all human contact – that wasn’t necessary until this insanity arose. I thought I could live some kind of relatively normal life, but that is not to be unless things revert to the real normal. And even then, I don’t know how easy it would be to find my way back from this position of trusting no one.

I walk through a cemetery every day on the way to my allotment. An old one, so really quite a lovely and peaceful place. At least nature is consistent, even in its inconsistency, with storms and high winds down here on the south coast.

96469 NickR, replying to NickR, 20, #322 of 785 🔗

Delighted to report that my 92 year old neighbour brought us a delicious chicken & ham pie from the butchers at Fladbury today. Ted has, when not driving a 200 mile round trip to Harpenden to see his dsughter, has been doing sterling service keeping the craven youngsters of the town stocked up with essential provisions. Thank heavens for Ted, without redoubtable national service veterans like him I worry that many in the town may have succumbed to malnutrition by now.

96507 ▶▶ annie, replying to NickR, 4, #323 of 785 🔗

God bless Ted!

96532 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to annie, 4, #324 of 785 🔗

He’s a very nice chap but watch out if you’re driving up/down the M40 every 2nd Wednesday, true to his military service he takes no prisoners.

96543 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to NickR, 8, #325 of 785 🔗

My grandmother was the kind of person who never had an accident, but saw plenty in her rear view mirror. God bless Ted and his kind.

96480 Tenchy, 9, #326 of 785 🔗

Here’s the latest scaremongering article from The Telegraph (paywall):


No prizes for guessing what’s causing the increased number of positive tests.

However, this link was provided in one of the comments (no paywall) – comments which are, incidentally, almost all sceptical:


Very interesting.

96508 JYC, replying to JYC, 10, #327 of 785 🔗

We took a delivery in Edinburgh today. The young (well, younger than I am) delivery man did not have a mask and was unconcerned about how close he needed to stand to me when bringing in the package. It was all pleasantly normal. (I won’t name the company in case of unintended consequences.)

96516 ▶▶ matt, replying to JYC, 9, #328 of 785 🔗

Some 10 year old (I exaggerate) turned up at our door at lunchtime today with a mask ‘round his neck and a tabard that read “I socially distance”. He was selling energy. Needless to say, we didn’t buy any energy.

96522 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, 3, #329 of 785 🔗

Oi! Sparky! No!

96528 Ovis, replying to Ovis, 16, #330 of 785 🔗

We are often told that mandatory face masks are comparable with seat belts in cars. Obviously, that is rubbish. Seat belts are useful, masks are not; seat belts cause no physical harm under normal circumstances, face masks do. I could go on.

Perhaps a more justified comparison is with the (as yet speculative) mandatory insertion of a courgette into your rectum as a precondition of entering a shop, public transport, etc. (The equivalent of the N95 in this thought experiment is a marrow). As with masks, there is no evidence that putting a courgette up your bottom does not help limit the spread of coronavirus, so if you fail to do so you must be a selfish granny killer. There would, as with masks, be that shared sense of ‘taking it for the team,’ of ‘people must play their part,’ as it were. And of course, one can easily imagine the feelings of courgette compliant shoppers, waddling through the aisles, upon seeing a shopper who considered him/herself to be exempt. What makes that antisocial person think s/he is better than us? It’s the law you know! Granny killer!

96531 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ovis, 9, #331 of 785 🔗

Sorry, exempt. Piles.

96546 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ovis, 4, #332 of 785 🔗

For your safety and convenience….mandatory 5G butt plugs (iPlug recommended) which monitor your temperature, heart rate and blood pressure 24/7. Data relayed in real time to the nearest NHS Contact Tracing team. Install a handy app on your smartphone in order to request removal at specified times according to the last 4 digits of your NI number.

96601 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 3, #333 of 785 🔗

See…I was right compulsory butt plugs for all! “Wanted bottom inspectors required by Waitrose for customer screening, CRB check required £10 PH must be able to wear a visor and facemask for an 8 hour shift.” call Waitrose HQ for more details.

96610 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Two-Six, 2, #334 of 785 🔗


96668 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, #335 of 785 🔗


96563 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Ovis, 3, #336 of 785 🔗

I saw someone post what they thought was a delightfully witty meme on FB earlier

‘After seeing how some people wear their masks, I now see how contraceptives fail’

Mask = condom

Perhaps if you were being told to wear a condom at all times _just in case you had sex without knowing_ the comparison might work better.

96579 ▶▶▶ Klein, replying to Mark II, 2, #337 of 785 🔗

‘After seeing how some people wear their masks, I now see how contraceptives fail’

The dumb fuck doesn’t realise that it is part of the reason that they’ve never been recommended to the public before – because they just won’t be used correctly, as well as being useless.

96732 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark II, 5, #338 of 785 🔗

Sex leads to conception which leads to birth which leads in the long run to death, which might be the death of a granny.
If you have sex, you’re a killer.

96596 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ovis, 3, #339 of 785 🔗

I am sure I mentioned the use of anti-covid butt plugs before. I am sure Fauchi advocated their use back in June.

96673 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ovis, 4, #340 of 785 🔗

Seatbelts are only mandatory on b-roads and junctions that are opposite a charity shop. This is because modelling has shown that you are less likely to fly through your windscreen in the event of a crash in those specific situations.

Nope, the comparison just doesn’t work.

96699 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ovis, 2, #341 of 785 🔗

On booking some work on my car at a large main dealer, I was told I’d need a mask to use the waiting area. Didn’t of course and neither did the other three using it, or any of the staff.

96535 snippet, replying to snippet, 14, #342 of 785 🔗

My stock response to pro face maskers is to ask them how many colds and flus they’ve had in their life. We have almost certainly all been in a chain of transmission that has killed someone.

96705 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to snippet, 1, #343 of 785 🔗

Yes this is the best reasoning to slap them around with. Years and years of being involved with killing grannies

96793 ▶▶ Julian, replying to snippet, 3, #344 of 785 🔗

The danger is that they will decide that what we did in the past was a mistake and we now know better.

A more compelling argument is that saving lives at all costs is unjustifiable. The problem is that some people don’t value their freedom as highly as they value the opportunity to feel virtuous and see that imposed on others.

96536 snippet, replying to snippet, 14, #345 of 785 🔗

Report from central London:
I’ve been working at the office since early June and things are starting to get a lot busier this week. Big queue in Pret today, with 50% masks and full tables without masks. No physical distancing. My guess is that workers are starting to come in from the suburbs and are dutifully wearing their masks. I don’t think it’ll be long before they give up on that once they see how few locals wear masks.

96540 ▶▶ matt, replying to snippet, #346 of 785 🔗

What part of central London, if you don’t mind me asking?

96544 ▶▶▶ snippet, replying to matt, 2, #347 of 785 🔗

Old Street.

96552 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to snippet, 1, #348 of 785 🔗

Thanks. Gives hope.

96554 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to snippet, 2, #349 of 785 🔗

Oh good; my brother lives there! Hopefully he will ditch his mask 🙂

96717 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #350 of 785 🔗

I know someone who lives there too, a work colleague.

97053 ▶▶ John Mirra, replying to snippet, #351 of 785 🔗

Good news! I hope it is normal when my office opens again.

I am convinced that many obsessing over the masks are those who are just coming out of hiding. Everyone who has been working throughout the “pandemic” will have gotten over the exaggerated risk by now unless they religiously bought into it.

96537 nfw, replying to nfw, 2, #352 of 785 🔗

Of course left wingers in their desire to grab power know better than real experts : https://realclimatescience.com/2020/08/anders-tegnell-wearing-masks-is-very-dangerous/

96594 ▶▶ A Heretic, replying to nfw, 2, #353 of 785 🔗

“because it gives the impression it is safe to be in crowded rooms or on public transport”

sigh. Even their response is still a complete overreaction.

96542 Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 31, #354 of 785 🔗

Received a letter today from my travel insurer, policy due to renew next month.
Under the new terms they will not cover cancellation claims caused by any coronavirus e.g. due to travel restrictions imposed by the government, or cancellation by the airline or tour operator.
But they WILL cover medical expenses should I contract the virus and require treatment while abroad.
Which means they’ve done the math and concluded that the disease itself is a manageable, insurable risk, but society’s response to it is not.

96545 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 6, #355 of 785 🔗

Staysure do both. It is the one I recommend to clients and they will now provide medical cover against FCO advice to travel. The Covid cover is no more expensive than usual policy.

96548 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #356 of 785 🔗

If tour operator, they are liable to pay and the insurers have washed their hands of all packages. The Package Travel Directive of 2018 had no measures for force majeure and is what has screwed the industry royally.

96549 ▶▶ matt, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 6, #357 of 785 🔗

You’re spot on. As it turns out, actuaries aren’t stupid.

96551 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to matt, 1, #358 of 785 🔗

They certainly aren’t

96553 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 4, #359 of 785 🔗

Odd… but not stupid.

96676 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #360 of 785 🔗

Most revealing thing, of many, I’ve read all day, thank you.

96560 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #361 of 785 🔗

Curious little web-stumble that appears to perhaps be where some of the £10bn went. Nufield Foundation research. Three week study into how to build public trust into the track trace app.


The curious question they chose to study was: Under what circumstances do citizens think that technological solutions like the COVID-19 contact tracing app are

Curious since it appears to ask how the environmental circumstances around the app need to be in order for public adoption of a given app. Perhaps my reading is off, in any event the for learning outcomes from the study did not quake shakes.

The study used 28 (two and eight next to each other) people to guide findings. Curious money sponge or sound research.

96566 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 14, #362 of 785 🔗

It does not take £10Bn to develop an app.

You can engage all of the consulting services you want around developing the app and add in the cost of them – it does not cost 10Bn to develop an app.

If you’re massively profligate, then over the course of 3 months, you could maybe spend £10M. Maybe. Including money spent on ‘research’ and ‘consultancy’. If you get stupidly expensive firms involved, stretch it to £15M. Your procurement would have had to have failed utterly to get to 20.

It simply is not possible to spend £10,000,000,000 in that space of time on developing an app and I don’t care how important the app is and I don’t care what functionality challenges you face and I don’t care what research you do and I don’t even care if you’re throwing in all of the employment costs for 25,000 test and trace employees and the IT platform that they’re supposed to be using, IT CANNOT BE DONE.

Reasonable costs for 25,000 contact tracers at a generous £20k salary, including an excessively generous (given these people are apparently mostly working from home) multiplier for on-costs of 1.4 is £700M for a year. You could beef that up a bit with agency fees, but…

You CANNOT get to £10Bn without an eye watering level of corruption or a stupefying degree of stupidity.

Rant over.

96577 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #363 of 785 🔗

£10bn is easily got rid of. Have you not seen brewsters millions? And that was 1980s!

96581 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, #364 of 785 🔗

Great film… but Even Brewster couldn’t have pulled this off.

96593 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #365 of 785 🔗

John Candy was the secret weapon… don’t forget.

Keep an eye on football club purchases…

96599 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #366 of 785 🔗

Could explain the Newcastle shambles …

96605 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JohnB, 1, #367 of 785 🔗

Anybody here want to buy Newcastle United for £9.999Bn?

Thought not.

96642 ▶▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Basics, #368 of 785 🔗

Brewster only spaffed a piffling 30 million.

96588 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #369 of 785 🔗

Another way of looking at it. The four learning out comes. I wouldn’t have payed £20 each for them if they included a free coffee and biscuits in their presentation of findings.

Of course something is up with £10bn. The question really is why settle on the numerals 10 why not 11 or 9? Something picked that number.

96611 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to matt, 1, #370 of 785 🔗

A huge infrastructure project lasting for years might cost £10 billion, a quickly cobbled together software project could not, as you correctly say.

96618 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Edward, #371 of 785 🔗

What about tech support? If they knew tge app was going to be as buggy as hell, maybe a large call centre was included?

96650 ▶▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Edward, 1, #372 of 785 🔗

Have a look at this for the most expensive things ever built:-

1) Egyptians have not had a pay rise in 4,500 years.
2) HS2 costs more than the International Space Station.

96678 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Edward, 2, #373 of 785 🔗

Both of our new aircraft carriers combined are only costing £7.6 billion. There is no way an app is legitimately costing more than that.

96743 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Steve, 1, #374 of 785 🔗

And both aircraft carriers are also far more effective than the app in the fight against Covid.

96763 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to matt, #375 of 785 🔗

This really needs to be investigated. I agree with you completely that this number stinks. I hope this is a case of someone making up a big number to impress the sheep. If it is real money then it is the heist of the century.

97072 ▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to matt, #376 of 785 🔗

Rant accepted!

It does beg belief. I have worked on government funded projects in the past that total budget was orders of magnitude less, and orders of magnitude more important to the preservation of life. That’s in the range of developing a new plane.

Given the exisiting work done by Google, Apple and others on contract tracing a project could have cost fractions of the £10Bn.
As you say in your rant, you might be able to push the cost to the tens of millions knowing how expensive and ineffective the contractors our government hires, but tens of billions is ludicrous, and screams corruption.
Personally I think there needs to be billion pound fines and years of jail time for those responsible for this fiasco. That money could have been better spent during this pandemic, and if reality was that COVID was the next Ebola in terms of lethality and this blunder happened I am sure the heads would have rolled quicker than it takes “Bozo the Clown” Johnson to lie.

96680 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #377 of 785 🔗

O/T but re Nuffield, they commandeered my local Nuffield Hospital for the Covid, it was never used but it is now taking NHS patients with non-covid conditions. Dunno what their paying customers are doing

97080 ▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to karenovirus, #378 of 785 🔗

In the Nuffield trust I believe only 1 patient died with COVID. At least my last check of the NHS England provided data confirmed this.

96787 ▶▶ smurfs, replying to Basics, 1, #379 of 785 🔗

My guess is a large chunk of the reported Track & Trace spend is going on expensive private consultancy firms to build out the covipass-type immunity passport infrastructure that is going to be rolled out alongside mandatory vaccinations.

Are there any sceptics working for Ernst & Young, PwC and such like that are willing to confirm this?

96568 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #380 of 785 🔗

I’ve been wondering what a gaggle of the masked ones reminded me of. It’s a sort of white, pink & blue version of this.

96569 ▶▶ matt, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #381 of 785 🔗

No – must be something else. They have more expressive faces.

96627 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to matt, 2, #382 of 785 🔗

True – but ‘they all look the same to me’

96573 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #383 of 785 🔗

“look there is a human there who isn’t wearing a mask”

96595 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to James Leary #KBF, 6, #384 of 785 🔗

The Planet of the Apes storyline is much more believable than the one we are currently embedded in.

96704 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to OKUK, #385 of 785 🔗

A great comparison indeed, got me cracking up OKUK. The humans in Planet of the Apes didn’t have to wear masks but they definitely know they’re captives, unlike the freedom surrendering masses of today’s ‘normal’

96603 ▶▶ Edward, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #386 of 785 🔗

The apes are less unattractive.

96639 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Edward, #387 of 785 🔗

And far more intelligent.

96604 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #388 of 785 🔗

A gaggle of masked ones. Brilliant.

Anyone else have their own collective noun. 10 upvotes from me for the best one.

Mine is “A submission of muzzlers”

96630 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Howie59, 1, #389 of 785 🔗

Is that ‘Submission’ the novel by Michel Houellebecq? I used to think that was exaggerated dystopia. Not any more. It would almost be a good outcome. For some.

96646 ▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to James Leary #KBF, #390 of 785 🔗

It wasn’t, but thank you for the book reference. Looks like a very interesting read which I will now pursue.

96730 ▶▶ dpj, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #391 of 785 🔗

This is what I see every time I see a group in masks. The Covid Collective ‘Wear A Mask, Resistance Is Futile’ comment image

97394 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to dpj, #392 of 785 🔗

You will be masksimilated

96574 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #393 of 785 🔗

Same nationalists doing the same stunt getting the same response. Same lack of condeming from SNP leaders. The twist this time is Devi Sridhar name and intellect is used.
The airport condemned the action – 250 jobs have gone at the airport recently.


“Activist stages protest at Edinburgh Airport demanding English tourists do not travel to Scotland
A banner reading ‘England Stay Out of Scotland’ was unfurled, which has been used at transport hubs and borders in the past few months.

“Activist Sean Clerkin said: “We are doing today’s protest to continue our call to the Scottish Government to close the border and all ports of entry for non essential travel from England to Scotland to protect the people Of Scotland from COVID-19

“Professor Devi Sridhar of Edinburgh University in her comments recently in the New York Times wrote ‘Scotland and Northern Ireland have looked ahead at the coming winter and made a concerted plan to minimise community transmission……But neither nation has control over its borders because they are parts of the United Kingdom.

“‘So both now face a stream of incoming infections from England and Wales.”

96590 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 4, #394 of 785 🔗

I’m not clear on where this woman came from. She’s not the chief medical officer of the chief scientific officer, is she? If not, what the hell is she doing?

96608 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 4, #395 of 785 🔗

Scotlands gotogal. Public health lurvie appointed in April to aid the Scottish Government response yo the bigger C than the big C. The ‘job interview’ would have been interesting as would the advertising for such a role.
Seems to have filled the cool aunty role left by calderwoods demise.

Meaning a direction entirely oppositely akin to running exactly contrary to really good scientific principles. NeueScience so to say, progressive.

I believe stamina is something they thought she might pick up on the job. Yet to kick in.

96607 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Basics, 3, #396 of 785 🔗

“Minimise community transmission” – that’ll be another lockdown then.

96615 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Edward, 2, #397 of 785 🔗

In thinking of returning to real life out of where we are now. I think we may need to set true standards to stop lockdowns or tge fear of lickdowns becoming acceoted.

The line sold about UN was to ensure war could never happen again – obviously not a good thing to have another UN forced upon us. But this looming lockdown needs to be outlawed, we cannot thrive with it. It is a constant power a few have over the great many.

96638 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Basics, 5, #398 of 785 🔗

You kind of have to laugh tho… look at the stage of the dickhead with his banner, stood on top of a closed car park on his lonesome and STILL so terrified he’s got a little mask on and his little DIY virus cardboard cutout – bless. You’d think he’d escaped from a mental institute.

96729 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark II, 1, #399 of 785 🔗

The whole of Scotland is a mental institute.

96726 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 1, #400 of 785 🔗

So Northern Ireland is a nation now?

96576 NickR, replying to NickR, 1, #401 of 785 🔗

Prize for the best collective noun for a group of mask wearers.
Me first: a gloom of mask wearers?
A flock?
An idiocy?
An anonynimity?
A collaboration?
……. surely someone can do better?

96578 ▶▶ matt, replying to NickR, 1, #402 of 785 🔗

A pandemic?

96598 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #403 of 785 🔗


96580 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to NickR, 4, #404 of 785 🔗

I’ve been using maskholes to describe them.

96702 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #405 of 785 🔗

Lisa is and already was the winner with maskholes. We need Hitchens to fire that one up on his Twit feed!

96583 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to NickR, 2, #406 of 785 🔗

A morgue?

96690 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, 1, #407 of 785 🔗
96585 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to NickR, 1, #408 of 785 🔗

A fluck?

A herd?

A morass?

96586 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NickR, 1, #409 of 785 🔗

An oblivion ?
A depression ?
A misery ?
A squalidity ?

96587 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NickR, 4, #410 of 785 🔗

a masquerade?

96933 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Carrie, #411 of 785 🔗

I was going to add this one. Fits the bill very well without being (too) obviously insulting

96589 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to NickR, 1, #412 of 785 🔗

An open prison?

96592 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to NickR, 3, #413 of 785 🔗

An asphyxiation

96692 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ovis, 2, #414 of 785 🔗


96609 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to NickR, 1, #415 of 785 🔗

A gloom?

96626 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Richard O, 1, #416 of 785 🔗

Ignore the above I keep missing your existing entries!

A shuffle?

96834 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Richard O, #417 of 785 🔗

Isn’t it a gloom of accountants? Like a rash of salesmen?

96612 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NickR, 2, #418 of 785 🔗

How about “Herd Conformity”

96613 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to NickR, 3, #419 of 785 🔗

Missed your post as I was busy down the thread posting the same.

Mine is “A submission of muzzlers”

96694 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Howie59, 1, #420 of 785 🔗

Muzzled Sheeple.

96625 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to NickR, 1, #421 of 785 🔗

It’s religious – so a congregation?

96725 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to James Leary #KBF, #422 of 785 🔗

Quite fitting. The word comes from the Latin grex , which means ‘a herd’.

96741 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, #423 of 785 🔗

Really! Interesting. Thanks!

96632 ▶▶ assoc, replying to NickR, 1, #424 of 785 🔗

A moronecy, or perhaps just an idiocy

96633 ▶▶ Basics, replying to NickR, 1, #425 of 785 🔗

A concern

96640 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to NickR, #426 of 785 🔗

A pan***ic

96658 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to NickR, 3, #427 of 785 🔗



…of mask wearers.

96664 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to NickR, 1, #428 of 785 🔗

A mime of mask wearers

96667 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #429 of 785 🔗

Just thought of another one.

A moot of mask wearers

Moot – having little or no practical relevance, typically because the subject is too uncertain to allow a decision

People also often use the word mute in error which in this case would also be appropriate.

96670 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to NickR, 1, #430 of 785 🔗

An Eclipse of maskers

96698 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NickR, #431 of 785 🔗

A masturbation

Guardian headline in my Google news feed
‘Burberry launches £90 mask range’.

96727 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to NickR, 1, #432 of 785 🔗

An imposition

96739 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to NickR, 1, #433 of 785 🔗

An ignominy of mask-wearers.

96778 ▶▶ mjr, replying to NickR, 2, #434 of 785 🔗

An arsewipe

96800 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NickR, #435 of 785 🔗

A littering

96839 ▶▶ NickR, replying to NickR, 1, #436 of 785 🔗

A zealotry?
A compliance?
A wetbed?
A drip?
A confluence?
A betrayal?
A quisling?

96602 swedenborg, 1, #437 of 785 🔗

This is a true scale of pandemic taking into account serology testing. Spain but not incorporated the latest deaths

“When results of serology surveys are also incorporated, graphs start to look like this. Note that serology can also miss some of those who got the infection early, because antibodies against the N protein wane more quickly”

96619 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #438 of 785 🔗

Congratulations Project Fear US Gallup assessment how many died in age groups
 “This from a Gallup poll is really the definitive proof of how catastrophically bad the media coverage of covid has been. Americans believe that young people have represented 40 TIMES MORE COVIDD DEATHS THAN THE REALITY”.

96724 ▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #439 of 785 🔗

And they all died in the deadly town of Somewhereelseville.

96624 adele, replying to adele, 1, #440 of 785 🔗

Saw this today from an ex colleague in response to this ridiculous analogy on fb:

I actually saw a meme from a friend today today that said,
If you didnt wear a mask for Tuberclosis, Whooping cough, Influenzea, common cold..
…Then why wear one now?

I was utterly disgusted by this.
Technically not wearing a mask is a threat to health and life, therefore I reckon it should be like manslaughter or GBH…. 🤬

Why arent people getting such a simple messsage

I honestly couldn’t believe what I was reading. People are so deeply convinced that I just don’t know where to start with them. Exasperating.

96737 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to adele, 8, #441 of 785 🔗

That leaflet’s advice might work for people living in a lunatic asylum but not elsewhere. Clown planet.

96801 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #442 of 785 🔗

Zombies are living in a lunatic asylum.

97220 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #443 of 785 🔗

It only makes sense if streams of piss come out of your mouth & nose.

97524 ▶▶▶▶ adele, replying to Sophie123, #444 of 785 🔗

🤣 🤣

96844 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to adele, 1, #445 of 785 🔗

FAIL! Both of you with pants will get wet (pee). Yuck.

96634 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #446 of 785 🔗
96641 ▶▶ adele, replying to Basics, 3, #447 of 785 🔗

Report it as abuse. They’re trying to inflict their hysteria on children all over the country.

96697 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 3, #448 of 785 🔗

Pathetic tossers wallowing in victimhood.

96735 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Basics, 3, #449 of 785 🔗

For a start they’re using the old death figures of 47,000. So they’re basing their fears on a death toll that includes at least 5,000 deaths that are now officially regarded as fake. If they can’t be bothered to do a little research, like I did, to discover for themselves that their children are completely safe, then I have zero respect for them. They should home school their children and leave the classrooms free for kids like my daughter who have no fear of this virus and who are desperate to learn, to mix with other kids and to live life normally.

96782 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #450 of 785 🔗

I have to say that the truly fearful are welcome to skulk in their homes for the rest of their lives if they wish. So long as they recognise that the rest of us are free to live our lives as we decide, too. I suspect that after a few weeks, their numbers will dwindle away to nothing.

The one thing that has truly infuriated me in this “crisis” is the expectation that we must move to accommodate their view, but we’re treated as criminals when we express our view.

Like you, I have zero respect for them.

96978 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #451 of 785 🔗

This letter tell me as a country we are f*cked and will never get back to normal.

“A holistic zero-Covid approach” – how can that be expected of any virus or illness?

96636 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #452 of 785 🔗

Has everyone here heard of ‘ash cash’?
“Ash cash” payments, as they are known by medical staff, are considered one of the perks of the job. Tales of junior doctors vying with each other to fill in the forms, for which they receive £73.50 a time, are legion. A junior doctor who blogs under the name “The Daily Rhino” has described ash cash “as the house officer’s privilege, it is the fund for Thursday night drinks all over the country”…. Currently, the bereaved’s family pays the fee.

I don’t suppose similar hard cash incentives are being paid to doctors who toe the Covid line, fill Covid in on the death certificate, etc.?

96654 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #453 of 785 🔗

As I understand it, GPs get vaccine incentive payments.

96695 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to OKUK, 1, #454 of 785 🔗

They get medication samples all the time.

96696 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 3, #455 of 785 🔗

GPs are paid incentives for all sorts of things resulting in over-medication in some instances, Statins for one.
Mine failed to get his incentive when failing to persuade me to give up smoking.

96701 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #456 of 785 🔗

Nice one K! 🙂

96723 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #457 of 785 🔗

I thought ash cash was what they paid the doctor after a cremation. For issuing yet another false death certificate for which the cremation destroyed the evidence.

96772 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #458 of 785 🔗

Sorry to break this, but if it’s public sector (“free” cash), there will be corruption. It was ever thus with “other people’s money”.

96643 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #459 of 785 🔗

These videos are worth watch, if just to confirm what a mess we are in:


96647 ▶▶ David, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #460 of 785 🔗

Please spread this link (and watch the must-see documentary) before the website is hacked.

96648 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #461 of 785 🔗

The BBC says:
France has reported a sharp rise in the number of coronavirus cases – 4,771 – up a thousand on Wednesday’s figure.
It is the first time more than 4,000 daily cases have been seen since May.
Meanwhile Spain, Germany and Italy have also recorded their highest numbers of cases since late April or May.

What infuriates me is that last week the BBC published a couple of articles that showed cognisance of the flawed concept of using raw “case” numbers to determine the state of an epidemic (flawed on many levels).

In my world, once I realise an undeniable truth in a ‘light bulb moment’, there is no going back. However, the BBC clearly regards the truth as a very fluid, malleable thing.

96652 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #462 of 785 🔗

For the BBC the truth has its uses but they are always, always much more interested in the narrative.

96660 richard riewer, #463 of 785 🔗

Just finished watching Robert Altman’s 1980 film Health, with Lauren Bacall. Glenda Jackson and Carol Burnett.

96661 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 11, #464 of 785 🔗

My regular call for Toby to start a new political movement.

And here’s s little history lesson… it is often claimed that the SDP of the 1980s is proof that you can’t beat the first past the post system. This is nonsense. The SDP were polling over 50%….it was the Falklands War – which hugely boosted support for the Thatcher government – that did for them.

The impact of the SDP show that there is nothing sacred about the FPTP system.

If a new political party could be formed that attracted people like Rod Liddle, Peter Hitchens, Trevor Phillips, Julia Hartley-Brewer,, Allison Pearson, Brendan O’Neill and so on they could produce a political earthquake. I truly believe there are 20 million adults in this country prepared to go out and vote to save the country they love – but which they are told it is wrong to love, day in and day out, by the. BBC, Sky and ITV.- if only there were a party prepared to tell the truth.

96663 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to OKUK, 6, #465 of 785 🔗

Rod Liddle

I don’t think so!

96665 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #466 of 785 🔗

Yep he’s not been good on Corona but he’s been good on highlighting a lot of BS in UK politics. Political parties are always compromises or broad churches.

96786 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 2, #467 of 785 🔗

Compromise, yes, but last I heard, Liddle’s stated position on lockdown was that it must have been the right thing to do because everyone else was doing it. For me, that’s a red line.

96819 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #468 of 785 🔗

But you are never going to get a party that has nobody in it you dislike/disagree with. As long as the official party stance on lockdown is “never again” and “it was a disastrous error” a few dissenters on that point wouldn’t matter (and he’d soon cave in I suspect, anyway).

96947 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, #469 of 785 🔗

Yes, that’s a good point.

96874 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Barney McGrew, #470 of 785 🔗

Agree he’s turned into a bed wetter

96675 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to OKUK, 2, #471 of 785 🔗

There is no point on voting properly. Spoil your ballots they are counted..
Any new party will have no chance.

FPTP is terrible, it means we have a one party state for ever, regardless of political colour. PR would be better and the Lib Dems totally messed it up with their stupid preferential vote thing.

The biggest betrayal ever with the Lib Dems….and the tuition fees thing..and the cannabis thing, and all the other things they back-tracked out on.

Who ever you vote for government always wins.

96679 ▶▶▶ PWL, replying to Two-Six, 2, #472 of 785 🔗

Yes, the UK Government always wins. Don’t even spoil a ballot paper. It signals as much consent to be governed as a valid vote.

Attorney General Funbags says: Brawndo’s got what plants crave; Voting changes politics for good

96693 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 2, #473 of 785 🔗

Spoiled papers are counted and announced by the Returning Officer on live telly, would be interesting if they tipped the balance or even came top in a by election = “stuff the lot of you”.

96722 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #474 of 785 🔗

I remember a story about the last election in Soviet Russia before its collapse. In each place there was only one candidate, the government one of course, and in one place at least, he still lost.

96747 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to OKUK, #475 of 785 🔗

Brewer is awful, if the BBC offered her a job she would be as left as Andy Marr within a day.

96767 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, #476 of 785 🔗

I had great hope for the SDP: pro-Britain and pro-British people it started out looking really, really good. And while few parties were going to win against Thatcher post-Falklands in 1983, my suspicion is that what did for the original SDP was when they merged with the corpse of the Liberal Party. Because then, instead of standing for something, they stood for nothing.

96813 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to OKUK, #477 of 785 🔗

It sounds like you’re actually talking about the current incarnation of the SDP, of which Rod Liddle is a paid-up member. They’re a bit left for me economically (although seemingly that puts them to the right of even the Conservatives these days) but they do essentially occupy the space socially that you describe.

96682 PWL, replying to PWL, #478 of 785 🔗

ACE2. You’ll probably never have heard of it, but it’s really important right now.

SARS-COV to ACE2 binding and the dangerous Covid-19 truth

96691 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PWL, #479 of 785 🔗

Bit too dense for me I’m afraid, any chance of a precise?

96707 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to karenovirus, 2, #480 of 785 🔗

I believe what it’s saying is that cv19 may be caused by certain prescription drugs. That would be fairly easy to research, if so.

96712 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 1, #481 of 785 🔗

Thank you RyanM

96719 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to PWL, 3, #482 of 785 🔗

This got quite a lot of traction back in March (my husband is on ramipril so I paid a lot of attention), but then the concern seemed to dissipate and people were told not to discontinue medication. What happened?
Dont give me a big pharma conspiracy: these drugs are all off patent and cheap as chips and no Big Pharma makes a penny off them

96748 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Sophie123, 1, #483 of 785 🔗

Also on Ramipril. But I thought it was only an issue if you seriously caught it.

96821 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to PWL, #484 of 785 🔗

Ramipril is an ACE inhibitor and is used to treat high blood pressure and heart failure. It is also prescribed after a heart attack.

Doctor, Why do I have high blood pressure?
It is known today that 95% of all cases of high blood pressure are completely preventable & reversible.


96689 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 10, #485 of 785 🔗

Is the media backtracking on the Covid/lockdown (=cl) ?
On Thursday I paid particular attention to BBC Radio 2 & 4.

Hourly news bulletins on both stations, nothing.

7am-8am R2, lightweight banter usually interspersed with ‘how to have fun with your hamster in lockdown!’. Today not a bit of it.

8am-9am R4 Today Programme, not a single cl item, just the unspoken backdrop to exams debacle and a bit towards the end of a general attack on Trump by an American politico.

9am-10am R4 Science/general interest slot, no cl items for a change.

10am R4 Woman’s Hour, no cl items on the menu just for once.

10.30 R2 Ken Bruce Pop Quiz. our Ken always asks the contestants how lockdown is going for them but not today.
He’ll also throw in a few “well enjoy the picnic Louise: don’t forget the Social Distancing now ! Lol”. Didn’t do it today.

12.00 midday R2 Jessica(?) Phelps (for holidaying Jeremy Vine). Always has at least one, sometimes all 3, phone in segments devoted to Covid/lockdown, today not one.

This almost total and sudden lack of interest is clearly not by accident, it is controlled.
In an earlier thread @LS two explanations were suggested.

1) the media have realised the whole Covid ship is sinking fast and are jumping, Daily Mail perhaps but the BBC?

2) Covid lockdown is being put on the back burner in order to have a greater impact in a few weeks when ‘Second Wave It’s All Your Fault Lockdown!’ Is splashed all over the media once again accompanied by another tranche of government advertising to keep the press afloat a bit longer.

96700 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to karenovirus, 8, #486 of 785 🔗

Reminds me of when the BLM protests erupted worldwide and Corona just vanished from the MSM’s top spot for a couple weeks. I thought it might be over then the full press of CASES, CASES, CASES was introduced to get things back on the boil.

96715 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to karenovirus, 10, #487 of 785 🔗

Listening to that much BBC cannot possibly be good for your health.

96755 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Thinkaboutit, 1, #488 of 785 🔗

Pete Towsend defence

96791 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 1, #489 of 785 🔗

Took me a couple of minutes, as I was thinking of music, but now I get it.
Police will be round shortly to impound your radio. 🙂

96789 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Thinkaboutit, 2, #490 of 785 🔗

I cannot listen to Ken or Jeremy without puking

96842 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, #491 of 785 🔗

Jeremy was fronted by Vanessa who worried us about a woman with a spider living in her ear

96871 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, #492 of 785 🔗

And Ken treated us to more smut Divine Comedy, National Express, the “arse” version.

96900 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cecil B, 1, #493 of 785 🔗

I can’t think about listening to Jeremy or Ken without puking.

96718 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 9, #494 of 785 🔗

Ever the optimist, I too wonder if this huge oil tanker of Covid madness is getting a tweek on the tiller? A day or two ago I heard Johnny Diamond on BBC World at One talking to an Oldham councillor about a possible lock-down in Oldham, he asked them how a lock-down could be justified if nobody was dying and nobody was being admitted to hospital? Their reply was that it clearly was not and that the rise is cases was due to a lot of young people getting tested whilst older and vulnerable people had enough nous to avoid the pubs, the raves and the crowds and have a quiet beer in their backyards while this hoo-haa passes by.
Wow I thought for this outbreak of rational common sense they and Oldham will all be doing double time on the naughty step but so far so good.
Maybe Dominic Cummings has now got his political eyesight back and realised that there is a limit to how far they can drag this sorry circus and is looking for a way out?

96785 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #495 of 785 🔗

A medical chappy speaking twixt 7.30 and 8 this morn (Friday, 21st, August) said all cases mattered because in five to six weeks (I think he said five or six weeks) it will feed into higher mortality figures – albeit the cases they are presently coming up with are possible all young and asymptomatic.

96792 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #496 of 785 🔗

But that should be in 2 – 3 weeks time, not 5 – 6. The average time from first symptoms to death used to be 14 days. I just read that on the Worldometers site from studies in China.

96803 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to DressageRider, 4, #497 of 785 🔗

The people now being identified with the virus won’t be dying, they’re not ill at all, at all. They’ll just be passing it on. Of course they could pass it on tomorrow and that person could demise. So why the five to six week prediction? I dunno? He should have been asked.

96845 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ned of the Hills, #498 of 785 🔗

Because by then we will have forgotten he said it.

96927 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, #499 of 785 🔗

I’ve been tracking cases, hospital admissions and deaths for the past eight weeks.

In the first week in July cases were at their lowest – 65.

In the second week in July they doubled – 132. In that week there were 9 deaths.

In the week just gone – i.e. five weeks on – there have been 3 deaths.

(Two weeks on it was 11 and three weeks on it was 1)

But perhaps you have to be a fit and healthy ‘case’ to have an impact five weeks on?

96863 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DressageRider, #500 of 785 🔗

Been like that since March.

96847 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, #501 of 785 🔗

That Councillors main fight will be against his own paid officials.
Probably Cummings who came up with the wheeze of passing responsibility to them thus avoiding the final fallout

96858 ▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #502 of 785 🔗

I think you mean a quiet prayer or a goat slaughter in their backyards rather than a beer.

96720 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 2, #503 of 785 🔗

I do hope you’re right.
But do you habitually imbibe all that BBC covvie poison?
And you are still sane?Golly gosh!

96849 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #504 of 785 🔗

No, Annie, see my defence below “just for research your honour”.
I have an excellent very local radio station that plays great music of all types and very little chat.

96721 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to karenovirus, 7, #505 of 785 🔗

Hopefully what we are witnessing is the beginning of a curious phenomenon called the memory hole. This time next year anyone insisting that a lockdown happened will be treated by the msm as being as deluded as us lockdown sceptics are considered at present.

96758 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Mr Dee, 22, #506 of 785 🔗

I think that we need to take a trip down Memory Lane instead.


“We need to flatten the sombrero”
Wash your hands singing “Happy Birthday” twice
The “cough into your elbow”
The “clear all the hospitals”
The daily briefings
The “most people will not get Covid-19”
Not enough PHE equipment
The not-up-to-standard PHE equipment
We need more ventilators
We don’t need more ventilators
We need more hospital beds and mortuary space
We don’t need them now
Test, test, test
The five pillars for testing
We can’t get enough tests
These tests are contaminated
All those “important people” who broke lockdown
The R0 numbers
The five levels to get out of lockdown
The traffic lights system
Schools will be closed
Schools were “not closed” for the purposes of the Judicial review
Schools will open for everyone before the end of term
Oh sorry, no they won’t
The clap for carers
The Track and Trace
The 750,000 volunteers
It’s safe to go to Spain
Oh no it isn’t
“Masks are useless” from Hancock, Harries, Whitty, Tams, Vallance
Masks are mandatory.

and so on and so on, ad infinitum

They might hope that we won’t remember all of this, but we will.

To quote Mark’s favourite saying,

”Never forget, never forgive”

96841 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Margaret, #507 of 785 🔗

Excellent post.

96853 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, #508 of 785 🔗

Screen shot that, thank you.

96760 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #509 of 785 🔗

Or even the reverse ferret.

96783 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mr Dee, 19, #510 of 785 🔗

Lockdown is still happening. It never stopped. What we have now is arguably marginally better that 23rd March, but what we have now can never be accepted, and we are a million miles away from normal. I would argue what we have now is WORSE than 23rd March, because people are now starting to consider this as normal, whereas what we had on 23rd March everyone knew would be temporary. I take the gradual reduction in virus related news on the BBC to be a bad thing, in that it gives people the idea this is normal. I strongly doubt it represents any shift in BBC opinion.

96830 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Julian, 3, #511 of 785 🔗

Exactly – until you have to get to the bar through a crowd, with lots of excuse me and squeezing through we are NOT back to normal

96860 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #512 of 785 🔗

Which would have been the case had Johnson ended lockdown after 3 weeks.

96914 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 1, #513 of 785 🔗

Exactly. They could have easily said, “we have done it, well, done everybody ok lets carry on now, sorry about the disruption to your lives”. They could of even done this after a few months, like at the start of June and got away with it. They might even be able to pull it off now…incredible

96745 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to karenovirus, 2, #514 of 785 🔗

The exams that never were guarantees interest from the middle class parents. Just a weeks respite from the next wave of fear to be unleashed.

96746 ▶▶ davews, replying to karenovirus, 1, #515 of 785 🔗

Going on this morning about people desperately trying to get back from Croatia on Today. Did I mishear, 200,000 positive tests in a day there?

96749 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to davews, #516 of 785 🔗

Yes I heard about Croatia 7am news, still absent from the chat shows.

96962 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to davews, 1, #517 of 785 🔗

No, just 255 positive tests in a day, they’ve only have just over 7,000 positives in total!

97043 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, #518 of 785 🔗

Thanks for that skipper, feeble reason for putting Croatia in detention

96898 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 3, #519 of 785 🔗

I hope your wrong about point 2. I have noticed that the other day, no mention of covids on BBC R4. It was the first time I have listened since March but it was surprising. I think they are unscrewing the fear valve a bit.

96744 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 10, #520 of 785 🔗

The Czech Republic announced a few days ago that muzzles would be reintroduced from September until March. However the Czech PM has just overruled it. Apparently he wasn’t informed of the announcement.


Great news, but expect CZ to be punitively added to quarantine lists in retaliation for going against the flock.

96769 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to TheBluePill, 6, #521 of 785 🔗

Interesting.The obscure organisation masksfor all seems to have its headquarter in Prague.But it is probably funded by Western money.

96973 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 1, #522 of 785 🔗

That organisation is scary. They have face masks on their profile pics on their website for their members.

Its sheer insanity.

97125 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #523 of 785 🔗

Masks4All has come up several times on this site. I forget the details but they have been around from the start and are definitely dodgy, headed by a young ‘entrepreneur’ (wide-boy to you) and having links to the WEF and big pharma. MW

96756 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 16, #524 of 785 🔗

In the DT today:

“Covid hospital admissions inflated at height of pandemic”

Key points:

Hospital admissions for Covid-19 were over-reported at the peak of the pandemic, with patients who were taken in for other illnesses being included in outbreak statistics, it has emerged.

An investigation for the Government’s Science Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) found that people were being counted as Covid hospital admissions if they had ever had the virus, and were added to those being admitted directly due to it.

96759 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sarigan, 10, #525 of 785 🔗

Quelle surprise!

96762 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 9, #526 of 785 🔗

How many more “SAGE quietly confirms something that anybody who has been paying any attention has known all along” headlines do you think we’re likely to get?

And at what point does someone put 2 and 2 together and work out that a proportion of these people who were admitted to hospital for non-Covid reasons will subsequently have died of their non-Covid illness and have been counted in the Covid death statistics?

96764 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to matt, 8, #527 of 785 🔗

Hi Matt, the sooner the better! Hopefully this will gain traction. They inflated deaths, they inflated test numbers and now we’re learning they inflated hospital admissions!

96774 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Moomin, 7, #528 of 785 🔗

The problem is partly that bedwetter groups are showing each other reports confirming their own prejudices in the other direction, and are convinced the numbers are higher/were suppressed etc. and there’s inevitably going to be a “second wave” There’s always plenty of confirmation bias on these complex issues.

Not saying the truth isn’t with us, just that it’s a complex enough and confused and propagandised enough topic that there’s plenty of scope for continued obfuscation, delusion and confusion.

96781 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #529 of 785 🔗

True, though I think there are neutrals who are in neither group who are persuadable given exposure to the right messages often enough, if it seems to them to mean that life can get back to normal, which is what they want. The hardcore don’t want to go back, but looking at people’s body language when I am out and about, lots of people do.

96788 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 3, #530 of 785 🔗

Yes, it’s about winning over enough of the honest middle ground, and that will happen. But we should be under no illusions that the other side has no ammunition left.

96824 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mark, 1, #531 of 785 🔗

Yes, a scientifically-literate (or so I thought) friend of mine is convinced that the numbers were systematically under- reported. He seems to think that the aim of testing is to catch every infection, and the false negative rate means that many have been missed. He, of course, knows someone who is now off work long term sick having had ‘Covid’ but tested negative. He thinks that the government failed at the start with testing, and that it was a week too late imposing the lockdown. He is convinced that the true scale of the epidemic is much higher than the statistics show.

It’s a completely different perspective from our own.

96876 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #532 of 785 🔗

Different as in deluded. No shortage of them, sadly.

96892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #533 of 785 🔗

I have heard this narrative from quite a few people now. The government are under-reporting the deaths and trying to cover them up, about locking down too late. It’s pretty common.

96961 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #534 of 785 🔗

Know your enemy (even if he’s your friend off the particular issue).

96869 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 6, #535 of 785 🔗

Agree Mark. I’ve said a few times now, I think the only way out of this is for a significant number of senior hospital doctors and nurses to come out on mass (a press conference) to state the facts and the consequences of all the lies. This, plus an additional set of ‘brave’ CEOs doing what Charlie Mullins did a couple of weeks ago. The private sector masses on furlough need to be starved out. Once they have been starved out, there will be so much anger towards the public sector work-shy there will have to be mass sackings, plus removal of their over-generous pension rights – starting with the heads of quangos, universities and hospital trusts.

96766 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, #536 of 785 🔗

Actually, having pressed “post comment” it straight away occurred to me that it doesn’t matter a damn. Other countries have massively written down their death numbers, but have persisted in doubling down on the post-pandemic madness anyway (Italy, Ireland). Don’t see why it should be any different here.

96775 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to matt, 3, #537 of 785 🔗

It depends on the nature of the populace and the political system. We have a fairly cynical populace/media and an adversarial political system, which theoretically means that as you get more noises off in the media (which seem to be considered a proxy for public opinion), somebody in the political class is going to see a personal opportunity in riding that wave. In countries with a government stitched up by PR or with compliant media it’s far less clear what could trigger a change of direction.

96828 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #538 of 785 🔗

I would change that to had.
The political/media class are as one on this and there is no questioning of the fundamentals on lockdown.

96865 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #539 of 785 🔗

That was true at the beginning, but it has shifted over time. The Telegraph and the Spectator are both a lot more sceptical now and there are sceptical pieces appearing in other papers too. The weather is changing and all it will take is for someone well-positioned to see advantage in jumping on this bandwagon.

96809 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to matt, #540 of 785 🔗

If anyone of them died they’ll be in the Covid death count, won’t they? They were a Covid admission, so Covid was presumably on their medical record. I guess some of them could have been removed in the recent cull.

As you say it probably wouldn’t make a whit of difference, though.

96799 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 1, #541 of 785 🔗

My flabber has never been so gasted.

96757 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #542 of 785 🔗

What was the final outcome of obesity and Covid19? It was all the rage two weeks ago to be telling people to lose 5lbs. What became of all that?

Interested to know any perceptions of the final result on this topic. It seems to me the story has totally vanished and was a political way to bridge from whatever story ran before to the exam scandal.

96768 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Basics, 2, #543 of 785 🔗

No change that I can see, supermarkets still doing offers on chocolate biscuits etc, McDonald’s still advertise lots on TV. I haven’t seen an explosion of any more than the normal number of people out jogging either.

96779 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Rabbit, 1, #544 of 785 🔗

Thanks. So I haven’t missed anything. Really feels like it was a diary filler to keep the headlines covid. Now currently simmering ready for the great Autumn return.

96777 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 3, #545 of 785 🔗

There was an ad on the telly last night from the NHS or whatever featuring lots of largeish people doing exercise and eating fruit, presume it was in aid of some kind of anti-obesity drive, and I think it mentioned the virus.

I suppose it’s a bit more constructive than making people wear masks forever, though anything that comes from the govt/NHS now I treat with suspicion

96802 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, #546 of 785 🔗

Thanks. So maybe more genuine than I was considering. I agree about no trust in NHS public health. It is the department of behavioural nudge.

96816 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Julian, 1, #547 of 785 🔗

It’s all part of the push to absolve government of blame. It’s the people’s fault, you see. The lockdowns, quarantines etc. have to continue because some people haven’t been behaving themselves. And the ones who died were too fat, etc. etc.

96822 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, #548 of 785 🔗

How about state sponsored physical jerks?

96945 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #549 of 785 🔗

If they had spent a tenth of the money that has been wasted on personal trainers and dieticians for everyone, the health benefits would have been huge – not that I personally relish more nannying from the state

96817 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 4, #550 of 785 🔗

Fat people are funny. I find them physically repugnant and yet fascinating all at once.The huge bellies and man tits and woman with that huge FUPA dangling between their legs like the Rolling Stones tongue logo. I also love hearing their excuses for being fat and why they can’t do anything about it when we all know the only reason they are fat is because they are lazy, greedy and self obsessed. I’m afraid when i see a fat i think mandatory work camps where we starve these fuckers back into human size.

96831 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 1, #551 of 785 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

96840 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 3, #552 of 785 🔗

I laugh out loud when I really fat people wearing masks. I’d love to get into a conversation with them about relative health risk management, but they’ve waddled off by the time I’ve stopped laughing. 🙄

96880 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #553 of 785 🔗

People who smoke wearing a mask does my head in. Smoking will kill them for sure, much more reliably than the covids they are worried about catching.

96910 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Two-Six, 2, #554 of 785 🔗

Yes but smoking gives protection from Parkinsons, Coronavirus and who knows what else.
So smokers are much less likely to get Wuflu in the first place.


96915 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Two-Six, 5, #555 of 785 🔗

I could point you to evidence that smoking doesn’t kill you and it is in fact a lie. The filters kill you. The clowns in government claim through spurious research that it’s bad for you but it’s not. These are the same clowns behind the virus, you can’t trust them on anything whatsoever. Fibre from the filters put on the end of tobacco for health reasons (see how they always do these things for your own good, why would you object?) get lodged in the throat and lungs and that’s what develops into heath issues. Straight up tobacco is a gift from the universe to give you something to do while you wait around to die. Mix it with weed and you can open the 5th circuit of your brain to experience the rush of chemicals your body makes just as you’re about to depart this life. Mix it with drink and you can a speedy all action party high that seems to make life slow and fun for a few hours before some impish devil visits the next day and hangs around for a while to remind you how impertinent it is to imagine life is fun. Smoke it after sex so you can feel like it is still the 70’s and you’re Jack Reagan lying in bed with a tart from the night before. It’s greatest use however is how it fires the imagination of those of us who create. No filter, just like life.

96891 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #556 of 785 🔗

I object purely on aesthetic reasons.
As i wander the garden sampling the delights and pondering the spooky nature of all things i see the overeaters from the corner of my eye and it spoils the view. I see their attrition, their enfeeblement and fear and it reminds me that one day i will die. The horror of life draped over the shoulders of the overweight to be carried around like a sandwich board declaring the end is nigh. Though i don’t judge them for it. Who am i, a mere speck of dust, to scrutinize anyone for anything?

96773 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #557 of 785 🔗

To help LS brain cells fire up for the day here is a tweet from a scientific advisor to both the Scottish Government and SAGE (via DELVE). Stiff coffee it is not:

Devi Sridhar
7 Aug
Re-opening safely is like a game of snakes & ladders except there are no ladders, only snakes- and we’re all tied together in the game so that even if a small number don’t comply with rules to advance, we all go backwards & down the snake.


96776 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 4, #558 of 785 🔗

This woman must be stopped.

96784 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to matt, 2, #559 of 785 🔗

I just threw a six, does that get me another thirty minutes out in the sunshine?

96798 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, #560 of 785 🔗

I you have the strength to drag the mob with you.

Here’s another! It caught my eye because yesterday I wrote about professor speak being the sign of a fool – and her she is “positivity testing” again then going on to explain herself allow within the limited characters of a tweet.

3 Aug
Testing positivity= number of people testing positive / number of people tested. Number of tests done not useful for this metric. WHO says under 5% is decent.

96827 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #561 of 785 🔗

23 july
Ireland can’t get to zero without N.Ireland which relies on Scotland pushing to zero which relies on England driving infections low which relies on Wales. The two islands need to cooperate bc they either all win together or all lose together. None can go it alone & keep #s low.

So by the guru devi logic of logics it all rests on the Welsh! How about that – rooting for you Wales!

“None can go it alone & keep #s low.” But Nipoleon is covid zeroing in any case.

Covid Zero is an independent SAGE plan as far as I can work out from Sridhar’s tweets. (!)

96878 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 2, #562 of 785 🔗

How can they go for zero covid? It’s impossible.

96810 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to matt, 2, #563 of 785 🔗

I’m afraid once we let them out the bedroom it was always going to end badly

96796 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Basics, 3, #564 of 785 🔗

You can still win with no ladders!!!

96780 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #565 of 785 🔗

Tony Blair was the worlds greatest apologist. He never actually apologised for anything he did, but would willingly appear centre stage to apologise for the past mistakes of others.

Like many psychopaths his faux sincerity made him ideal for the role

So, Baroness whatever her name is has been deployed

Once the summer rioting season is over, hard up will announce the mistakes that she has ‘discovered’ in PHE’s handling of the sham pandemic.

The charge sheet will list

1 The slaughter of the innocents in the care homes
2 The lockdown, which caused so many more deaths, and the trashing of the economy
3 The fact that PCR tests are not worth the paper they are written on and just prolonged the agony

There will be calls for a police investigation, which will be granted, adding at least another six years to the process

There will be media denouncements, show trials, and public humiliations

When all the trials, enquiries etc are over (2035?); the Dictator will be wheeled out to apologise for the evil PHE visited upon us

96808 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Cecil B, 2, #566 of 785 🔗

reads like the script from as yet an unwritten episode of Yes Minister

96790 Nicky, replying to Nicky, 7, #567 of 785 🔗

So just heard Toby is going to be on question time tonight, usually avoid it like the Covid plague as it is generally full of bed welters and apologists for politicians supportive of MSM propaganda but may give it a try tonight- Good luck Toby!

96795 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nicky, 2, #568 of 785 🔗

Good grief. I haven’t bothered watching QT in many years. Perhaps time to break the habit, as a one off.

96959 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, #569 of 785 🔗

Or listened to Radio 4, for that matter. The fact I had forgotten which was on Friday is evidence of my bona fides here….

96805 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Nicky, 1, #570 of 785 🔗

The presenter will interrupt him every few seconds to break his train of thought and derail any chance of his making an effective point, but better than nothing I suppose .

96811 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nicky, 2, #571 of 785 🔗

Thanks for the tip!
(I think it’s actually Any Questions on Radio 4 at 8 o’clock).

96825 ▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to Barney McGrew, #572 of 785 🔗

My apologies of course it is! Shows how long it’s been since I’ve watched question time too! Yes heard the plug on radio 4 whilst getting ready for work. I think he’s been invited under the FSU banner but am hoping he’ll get something in about LDS if he is not cancelled

97005 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Barney McGrew, #573 of 785 🔗

Great! I’ll be able to listen. I’ve no access to BBC television where I am.

96794 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #574 of 785 🔗

Given the suggestion from karenovirus below that the BBC is losing interest in pushing the panic with much enthusiasm, is it now time to start responding to every new coronapanic measure with a straightforward refutation: “but there is no epidemic!”?

This has been true for some time of course, but the fearful were always able to say “but it might come back” in response. As that gets less and less likely or relevant, should we just move to straight, open refusal to play their game?

Ideally, eventually there might be a few honest journos who would present the same assertion to any minister/scientist/public figure etc announcing new fear measures.

96882 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 6, #575 of 785 🔗

I agree that it’s a good line of attack.

The BBC isn’t losing interest, IMO. They think they’ve won (and for now, they are right). If they see support for the coronanarrative flagging, they will ramp it up again. For now, we’re in the new normal (the continuation of lockdown by any other means) and NOT reporting on it is a way of reinforcing that THIS IS HOW THINGS ARE NOW AND SHALL ALWAYS BE THUS. It’s as dangerous as continued focus on it, IMO.

We are still in lockdown, 100%.

97060 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Mark, 1, #576 of 785 🔗

On South East local news last night there was a short report on “where we are now with Coronavirus”. The first part consisted of young female reporter showing charts of the numbers of decreasing cases in Kent – down 94%. All good and true, no fear messages. Nothing about people in hospital or deaths. The 2nd part consisted of more senior reporter sitting with presenter across table (they sit slightly nearer together now I have noticed), giving a nothing burger spiel which made little sense, however the general point of it was that ‘it has gone’ but ‘people are still scared’. Both of which is true. It could have been presented better by some GCSE media studies students, however the underlying message was clear to me, the reporters know that it has gone but they are bending over backwards to keep at least part of the script in there, but that this is becoming impossible as it makes the reporting quite contradictory hence the rather incoherent discussion of it. Considering how much they have obsessed over the personal stories of those with the virus, and clapping the NHS, etc etc, I was surprised and also struck that we maybe have turned a corner with the local BBC news.

96804 Biker, replying to Biker, 12, #577 of 785 🔗

Brothers and Sisters, Comrades, Ladies and Gentlemen, Kings and Queens, Boys and Girls let us pray.

Our Father who art someplace, somewhere, i’m not sure but lets just say heaven for the sake of argument
Hollow be thy name
thy virus come
thy will be glum
from a lab in Wuhan as it is in heaven
Give us no more rules nor our daily masks
and forgive us the sceptics
as we forgive those who are sceptical against us
and lead us not into regulation
delivery us from vaccination
for ours is the kingdom
Albion is our song
for ever and ever
So long

96807 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 3, #578 of 785 🔗


96806 Geraint, 7, #579 of 785 🔗

Toby: More power to your elbow tonight on QT. No pressure 🙂 but remember you are voice for hundreds of thousands , millions who think the state has far overreached itself with the lockdown Bullshit! Best wishes Geraint

96812 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #580 of 785 🔗

Looks like Toby will be the token sceptic on Any Questions tonight. All the best Toby. You’re a brave fella.


96823 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #581 of 785 🔗

I can’t imagine this will be anything other than a stitch up. Hope Toby can present arguments in a nice rational and clear way but doubt I’d be able keep control of composure and thoughts when being systematically attacked. Bet dating but will get brought up as line of ridicule to make things seem like a jolly old joke

96836 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #582 of 785 🔗

Toby speaks very well. Cant wait to listen tonight. Go Toby!

96870 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, 1, #583 of 785 🔗

I might EVEN listen to it. I need to Steele myself for the pain that is coming.

96867 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #584 of 785 🔗


96814 swedenborg, 5, #585 of 785 🔗


“Asked about the March 15 massacres sentencing in court next week, Ardern said she couldn’t say much to ease the difficulties for families attending the case. She hadn’t decided whether to watch the sentencing.
Bloomfield said some people had been granted exemptions to travel out of Auckland to attend the sentencing, but none from managed isolation facilities.”

Interesting the Chief Health Officer thinks attending a sentencing so important that they are no risks of spreading this deadly disease and giving them permission like essential workers but not giving permission for the poor beekeepers which led to deaths of 2 million bees. But this is PC NZ.

96815 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 4, #586 of 785 🔗

So, disaster capitalism. There is so much money being made, and more will be made as we clear up this mess. I’m not into conspiracies, but I do think this is an opportunity. A bit like Haliburton and the ‘rebuilding’ of Iraq, 9/11 was a massive business opportunity. Do we think they are now milking this for all it’s worth? Cummings and his ‘creative destruction’ really worries me.

96833 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to BecJT, 2, #587 of 785 🔗

Oh how I wish I could cash in with a consultancy firm earning £500k the way Dido Harding’s consultancy firm did – but I don’t have the right connections. Will have to work hard for my money.

96843 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 2, #588 of 785 🔗

What, exactly, was he doing at Barnard Castle?

96894 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #589 of 785 🔗

Still wondering this – sure there is more to it…

96954 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 2, #590 of 785 🔗

Yes, and we need to know whether it was official government business or other!

96820 AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #591 of 785 🔗

COVID Response Is All Cost, No Benefit
Government officials’ interventions for COVID-19 have been strategically one-sided and myopic. Many leaders, in response to the perceived virus threat, completely abandoned rational considerations to lower overall suffering and death. In a blind focus intended to “stop the virus,” officials recklessly locked down billions of people globally with little to no debate, while ignoring the cost factor, an indispensable half of a “cost-benefit” analysis in calculating any solution.

More here:

96826 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 7, #592 of 785 🔗

Nick Ferrari on LBC covering a story about a primary Head in MK requiring all but reception children to wear masks at school. Wish this was a bad dream. Can only hope this is stopped – surely parents will not agree to this?

96829 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #593 of 785 🔗

TOBY should help relevant parties to take this case to Court

96835 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #594 of 785 🔗

In Oz they are talking about unvaccinated children not being able to attend state school

96852 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Dan Clarke, #595 of 785 🔗

Insane! Though I suspect and very much hope that covid-19 will have burned itself out long before a vaccine is ready. Not, I suppose that it would make a difference to maniac governments with an agenda I can’t begin to fathom.

96851 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Charlie Blue, 10, #596 of 785 🔗

I read the article in Mail online last night. Think the Head is mentally ill and needs to be sectioned for his own, and society’s benefit.

96875 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #597 of 785 🔗

Maybe it will come to that, but if enough parents resist it could be stopped at ground level for now and it strikes me that it is important that more of us recognise that we are not completely powerless in all this. My sister has been terrified throughout and is still saying “I hope you’re staying away from people” to me, despite me being a slim, healthy early 40s. However, there is no way she would send her 5 year old back to school masked.

96885 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #598 of 785 🔗

Agree. In the Mail article it said some of the parents were investigating changing schools. Others were in full agreement. People need to get a grip!

96893 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #599 of 785 🔗

Here in Sweden schools went back on Monday – so it will be interesting to see what effect that has on rates of hospitalisation here in another week or so. I suspect very little, as kids have been socialising with each other all summer anyway. Also as yet the weather is still warm and sunny 🙂

96920 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Carrie, 1, #600 of 785 🔗

Scottish schools have been back over a week now…..

96909 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #601 of 785 🔗

Just found the article. Dear God! Worse than I imagined. . Perhaps some of the staff will vote with their feet too.

96930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #602 of 785 🔗

It says in the article that the move is partly to protect vulnerable staff, so likely it is unions who have pushed for this..

96999 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Carrie, #603 of 785 🔗

Good point. I am completely in favouring favour of minimizing risk for those who are genuinely medically vulnerable, but not at everyone else’s expense. I would be in favour of supporting those groups financially if it meant that everyone meant that everyone else could crack on. . I suppose the problem is that now feelings are king there would be a backlash from those who simply felt vulnerable. I wonder what would usually happen in flu season for a teacher who was immunocompromised, for example?

96890 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #604 of 785 🔗

It’s on Simon Dolan’s Twitter..

96832 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #605 of 785 🔗

So the panic and chaos seem to be deliberate in a precursor to (Blair) when you are all vaccinated you can go back to pre March days. ‘Tony Blair Institute for Global Change Towards a Covid 19 Vaccine Strategy’

96879 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #606 of 785 🔗

We will never be back to pre March days unless there is a massive shift in public opinion and a political reckoning

96966 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Julian, 6, #607 of 785 🔗

I have certainly noticed a change, albeit slow, in recent weeks. Mostly in and around the realisation that cases are a product of testing. The rabbit hole awaits them.

So I am hopefully. The behavioral nudge marketeers have over played their hand I feel.

97047 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #608 of 785 🔗

Me too. The ship started to turn almost a month ago.

96895 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #609 of 785 🔗

I still don’t understand why they would want to vaccinate us. For a start, getting to that point will have destroyed much of the wealth that Big Pharma previously accrued, so even if they make ‘billions’, it will be a shattered economy they’re trying to spend it in.

And what will it be worth? $10 per human, so $70 billion dollars total? Maybe they get to do it every year. Hardly worth destroying the global economy for!

And if the whole thing is about control, or turning the world socialist and green (I could believe that), then the vaccine is likely to release us from that control, encouraging us to return to our old sinful ways.

Why bother with the vaccine part of it, unless they genuinely think the epidemic was ‘real’ and they want us to return to the Old Normal, or alternatively they now realise the whole thing has been a disastrous mistake? For the former, they would need the vaccine to work, for the latter, any old placebo would do.

Unless vaccinating the global population itself is the objective… Why would they want to do that?

96923 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #610 of 785 🔗

Because even Bill Gates admits the vaccines are likely to kill 700,000 people. There are good hints out there that the one given to young people will contain a sterilising agent to further depopulate the planet although this effect will only become apparent in 7 years’ time.
.Not only that, but it is a move towards a Chinese-style system of credits – once your vaccination status is part of a passport then they can stop you travelling with spurious false quarantine notifications (ie ‘you have been in contact with an infected person – you must quarantine for 14 days’).
You will have zero privacy because the requirement to carry your phone on you at all times (with a tracking app) means you (and for example also your purchases) will be constantly monitored…

96936 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Carrie, 1, #611 of 785 🔗

Good points. The sterilisation idea is quite far out there – but possible!

I see what you’re saying about the phone app thing. In this case, the annual vaccination would be a theatrical performance. The net result would be the same as the idea of testing every two weeks, but less disruptive.

96940 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #612 of 785 🔗

I first heard about the sterilisation thing on that govote youtube channel. but have seen it other places as well. Gates is known for having put sterilising agents into vaccines before – he got rumbled when it was noticed in at least one of his vaccination programmes, that they were only vaccinating females of child-bearing age and younger…

96948 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 3, #613 of 785 🔗

We also know from several studies, that people who have had flu vaccines become *more* vulnerable to other coronaviruses. They are already saying that the ‘vulnerable’ will get the CV19 vaccine first – are they trying to create another ‘vulnerable’ group to pick off in any subsequent ‘pandemic’? Bill G has already said people will take it seriously ‘next time’ (and laughed when he said it – grr…)

96939 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #614 of 785 🔗

The rich and powerful in poor countries are still rich and powerful. It often doesn’t seem to bother them.

From a rational basis, I would rather be rich and powerful in a rich country, but we don’t always act rationally – and if being rich and powerful in a poorer place means you can hang on to riches and power without scrutiny, it’s a tradeoff many may be willing to make.

97085 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Julian, 1, #615 of 785 🔗

The rich and powerful in poor countries are still rich and powerful. It often doesn’t seem to bother them.

But one of the perks it gets them is that they come to the West and enjoy the fruits of a wealthy society. If the whole world goes Third World (possible) then they’ve lost a hell of a lot regardless of whether they have their own, personal solid gold toilet.

96951 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #616 of 785 🔗

BIg Pharma is just one of the groups hitching their wagons onto the Corona train. There are many others. The Corona Project is a product of big banks primarily, it’s a global business plan. The new normal, Agenda 2030 sustainable development goals. The 4th industrial revolution. The global reset.

Vaccines are just a little part of it all.

96955 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, 1, #617 of 785 🔗

Vaccines are just a little part of it all.’
But to my mind a big part, given their potential to do so much harm. Especially when produced at warp speed and without the opportunity to properly test for long-term side effects..

97054 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, #618 of 785 🔗

As I’ve long said, these theories always have an internal logic that works, but as soon as you look at the strategic reasons, they all fall to pieces. I’m a sceptic, not just about Covid, but about everything. Half a century of experience has taught me that.

96837 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #619 of 785 🔗

Interesting quote from Bill Gates in CNN
“And now, you know, we executed our lockdowns less nationwide and with less fidelity than other countries. So, we’re paying a pretty dramatic price, and not just in deaths. We also pay it in terms of the economic toll, which is up in the trillions.”
So a more effective lockdown Peru style would have been less costly And saved more lives

96888 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 4, #620 of 785 🔗

On whose authority is he using this ‘we’???

96846 bluemoon, replying to bluemoon, 1, #621 of 785 🔗

Just heard there’s an online group
which is gathering strength.
Haven’t looked at it myself.

96848 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to bluemoon, 3, #622 of 785 🔗

The whole of Parliament is rotten as are most politicians if they see Control as an option

96850 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to bluemoon, #623 of 785 🔗

Link says it is not registered

96905 ▶▶▶ smurfs, replying to Victoria, #624 of 785 🔗
97039 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to smurfs, 1, #625 of 785 🔗

All right, took a quick peek, and exactly as I feared. Exchanging one gang of fascists for another. Dim diolch.

97034 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to bluemoon, #626 of 785 🔗

Those motives are other than just Covid related. Will give that one a miss, thank you.

96857 Victoria, 10, #627 of 785 🔗

SCAMDEMIC SCIENCE: Coronavirus “cases” are medically meaningless, yet being used to justify weaponized lockdowns to destroy humanity

But I’ve got news for the corrupt medical establishment: Testing positive for a virus does not create a “case” of illness.

As every doctor and virologist knows, a “case” is only established when a person has:

1) A symptomatic expression of illness

2) The presence of an identified pathogen that is known to cause such symptoms

Merely carrying a virus is not a “case.” If that were true, then the vast majority of Americans would right now be diagnosed with “cases” of influenza, and we would be in a media-declared influenza pandemic panic.


96859 tonys, replying to tonys, 12, #628 of 785 🔗

Oh god ,I have just seen an advert on ITV by Vistaprint for their masks ‘range’ and it is absolutely horrifying. Masked up children, little more than babies, a commentary explicitly claiming masks are an expression of human solidarity. I am genuinely shocked, where the hell are we heading with all this?

96861 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to tonys, 6, #629 of 785 🔗


96868 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Victoria, 8, #630 of 785 🔗

Have just told Boden not to send me any more brochures and e-mails, having received their latest one touting face masks.

96886 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, #631 of 785 🔗

Bombard their social media with negative messages!

96969 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Margaret, 1, #632 of 785 🔗

There is a good Boden like company called woollovers who don’t try and flog face masks.

96864 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to tonys, 2, #633 of 785 🔗

Hell in a handcart

96887 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to tonys, 2, #634 of 785 🔗

Use social media to give as much negative feedback as possible…

96896 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to tonys, 3, #635 of 785 🔗

Yes, they are creeping into the adverts now. Saw one for Vodafone – zombies posing as human beings. (TV at friend’s house – I don’t switch mine on anymore). In that ad they were adults. The one you have seen is indeed deeply, deeply disturbing.

96901 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lucky, 4, #636 of 785 🔗

There’s a weird TV ad for CocaCola here in Sweden which has definite ‘nudging’ messages about doing things differently and travelling less..Not sure if people are noticing it because it is subtle..But no doubt they will ‘turn up’ the messaging in due course..

96913 ▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Carrie, 1, #637 of 785 🔗

If Darren Brown can nudge someone to pick a red cup, what hope is there when the full force of advertising is brought to bear….

96917 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Fiat, #638 of 785 🔗

Derren. Pesky auto correct

96918 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fiat, 1, #639 of 785 🔗

It would be helpful if Toby could reveal the likely agenda tonight, and pre-warn people in advance of the advertising and ‘public information’ tactics which will be used to ‘sell’ the vaccine, then hopefully that might awaken more people.
If you know what is on the horizon you are more likely to spot it when it comes into play..

97062 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Carrie, 1, #640 of 785 🔗

They have done a couple in uk ….. an “ arent we all nice and good and working together ” a few months ago and a new one with “ George the Poet ” recommending the new normal. Nauseating
oh and by the way this stuff rots your teeth and makes you fat… so we might save you from covid treatment but we’ll make you need the dentists and the doctors

96902 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to tonys, 5, #641 of 785 🔗

Just wait until the soaps are back on TV. The plot will be all about vaccines with the extras walking around with masks on. I don’t watch them but unfortunately a lot of people do.

BTW I fucking hate the Vodafone advert showing the masked up woke’s skipping about having fun.

The ‘influencers’ will be out in force soon, nudging us into the big V.

96967 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to tonys, 2, #642 of 785 🔗

I saw that in my inbox and complained to their head office. Still await a reply. Sainsbury’s and next are also pushing them so have unsubscribed to them. Hit them in the pocket.

96872 Jay Berger, 7, #643 of 785 🔗

Peru is a perfect example for the validity of Michael Levitt’s and Udi Qimron’s assessment that lockdowns kill MORE of the VULNERABLE people than staying open instead (nit to speak of their collateral damage and deaths):
“Moreover, efficient protection of high-risk groups is possible only for a limited period of time: The longer the time, the harder it is to prevent their exposure to the virus. Therefore, paradoxically, it is precisely lockdowns and restrictions that slow the building of herd immunity, which in turn is needed to stop the epidemic and protect high-risk groups. In the long run, such policy can lead to excessive mortality.”

96873 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 5, #644 of 785 🔗


Tom Woods: “They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

Well, here are a few that show what the “new normal” will look like in some American schools” (see link)

The psychological damage being done to these children is incalculable. It’s pure child abuse, and all parents should resist this with everything they have. It cannot be allowed to continue.

96884 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, 5, #645 of 785 🔗

Look at this one, in the UK: https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1296686303929675776
Horrific – hope all parents boycott the school..

97112 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #646 of 785 🔗

Of course they won’t! They will applaud this and comply because it means their (never at risk) children will be ‘safe’. Not only is the Head Teacher mentally ill, so are the parents who will go along with it. MW

96881 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 9, #647 of 785 🔗

A German state minister, Karl Jisef Laumann of NRW, admitted on TV yesterday that they wouldn’t have locked down, if they had known then what they know now.
He also stated that they couldn’t have known that ICU’s stayed so empty just because they asked hospitals to defer any non A&E procedure.

I, and others, are speechless in light of that openly admitted stupidity, ignorance and criminal neglect, but even more so about the lack of outrage about it, and about the ever increasing acceptance and desire for even more restrictions by the vast majority of the population.

96889 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Jay Berger, 9, #648 of 785 🔗

A retired German Epidemiologist that was in charge in Germany until recently. (Thai descent from memory, which is why it stuck in my mind) said in February that this infection was a nothing burger. So don’t accept the pleading of hindsight – if they had listened to the wisdom of the wise, we wouldn’t have gone through all this stupidity.

96941 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #649 of 785 🔗

I remember him, he was censored away down the memory hole wasn’t he?

96916 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #651 of 785 🔗

Easy to ‘apologise’ and plead ‘ignorance’ *after* you have achieved your real objective, ie to kill off the elderly, further reduce the population by killing other vulnerable individuals, and also to scare the population into submission. Plus wreck the economy in order to achieve other objectives, and further a move to a cashless society..

96924 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 6, #652 of 785 🔗

In fairness, Carrie, Germany did not do this. They have a barely noticeable death toll from the virus and one of the reasons is that they did, whatever the reason, succeed in keeping the virus out of the elderly and vulnerable part of the population.

As for cashless… I’ll have to look into it and it’s an interesting question. Germany has always been a hugely cash-based economy and very resistant to plastic and digital transactions. I’ll try and find out whether that’s been changing.

97013 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 2, #653 of 785 🔗

Germans like stable money, and have a special terror of inflation. This has been ingrained ever since the 1923 crisis. I doubt if there are any Germans alive now who can remember that firsthand, but every German schoolchild knows how that all ended.

97025 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #654 of 785 🔗

My German ex-girlfriend’s grandmother was terrified when they switched to the Euro. She thought she was going to have to withdraw all of her Deutschmarks from the bank and convert them into Euros before depositing them again. She’d had to do that at least twice before in her life.

96883 Gerry Mandarin, 2, #655 of 785 🔗

Having read Toby’s column on ‘A’ levels results I will repost the famous Ronald Reagan quote for the scariest nine words one can hear.

“I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”

96897 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #656 of 785 🔗


Six weeks jail for hugging a friend

“A Whangārei painter has been sentenced to six weeks in jail for entering a quarantine facility and hugging a friend who was in isolation after returning from abroad.”
“To make matters worse, the judge said Welsh briefly embraced his friend which was a serious breach of isolation rules.
“This was not an example of people under severe stress because of a family death or some other reason. You knew full well about the quarantine rules and was not just content with talking to him, but hugged him as well.”

96908 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 3, #657 of 785 🔗

Outrageous! Methinks this sentence is designed to quash any dissent from the draconian (nonsensical) ‘rules’…

96938 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, 5, #658 of 785 🔗

WOW how horrible. What the hell has happened to NZ. I have been aware for a long long time, since the 80’s that the deep state try out social policies in NZ first, then roll them out here. Especially policies that have an element of psychology wrapped up in them.

96950 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to swedenborg, 4, #659 of 785 🔗

Can this be a case for Amnesty International?

97003 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #660 of 785 🔗

I thought that Mr Dee, then remembered there’s a reason I cancelled my membership subscription this year…

97024 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #661 of 785 🔗

Nah when you read the article, he was actually jailed for 6 weeks for failing to stop his car when police tried to stop him. The charge for breaking C-19 quarantine rules was dropped cos ‘it was laid incorrectly’.

96899 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 6, #662 of 785 🔗

I’m a bit perturbed by the fact that the English Democrats are offering masks for sale….admittedly with the cross of St George on…for their fundraising. Isn’t it a bit of a conflict, considering that Robin Tilbrook is linked via advert with this website and also the “Coronavirus Act is null and void” CrowdJustice fundraiser? Or am I missing the point?

96904 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #663 of 785 🔗

Maybe they’re only intended to be worn in case of potential police shutdown of a protest (on the basis of not wearing masks), ie only in cases of absolute desperation? Or maybe it is a concession to the vulnerable (but pro English democrat) who have yet to be convinced that masks make no difference?

96911 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to thedarkhorse, 8, #664 of 785 🔗

I’m of the view that this shit show transcends politics. It’s not really helpful having people jockeying for position to shape the new normal by introducing political angles when they are not there.

96998 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #665 of 785 🔗


97016 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #666 of 785 🔗

If they can make money out of it, they will. If the Brexit Party farce didn’t make it clear enough, there’s not a political organisation out there that isn’t just trying to make a few bob for it’s dear leaders – no matter their stated goal. The ones claiming to be by the people for the people standing up for freedoms yadayada, they’re all the same.

Seeing all these fashion brands, sports teams, political groups and everyone else bringing out branded masks just to make a quick £ really shows what a shallow world we’re living in.

96903 Achilles, 10, #667 of 785 🔗

Just had an email about a new London show:-

“Doctor Who: Time Fracture will allow audiences to be drawn into a story with Daleks, Cybermen and more, in a new immersive experience.”

Tempted to write back that I’m already in it, they just need to change the title to “The W.H.O: Mind Fracture”.

96906 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #668 of 785 🔗

Got this one through the Daily Fail “we don’t moderate” censorbot on this story (can’t be called a report can they anymore):


“It wasn’t a mistake or an oversight. It was deliberate to increase the fear. Same as the easing of standards to allow falsifying of cause of death on death certificates – as stated as a fact on the ONS and UN WHO website.”

96931 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #669 of 785 🔗

Surprised going through the comments put on the story – amazing how many people are saying it’s been a scam all along.

What a change.

96970 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #670 of 785 🔗

Yes they are great and definitely favour the conspiracy theory

96997 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #671 of 785 🔗

The tide started to turn last month. About the time this site began to attract a thousand comments a day.

96907 Tim Bidie, 6, #672 of 785 🔗

Some interesting remarks on here as to what made individuals sceptical in the first place.

For me:

A paper written in 2017 made it clear that the common cold was more dangerous than influenza to the elderly and infirm:

‘Unexpectedly Higher Morbidity and Mortality of Hospitalized Elderly Patients Associated with Rhinovirus Compared with Influenza Virus Respiratory Tract Infection’

Further research showed up any number of earlier papers, including this one, from 2011

‘The new respiratory viruses or viral strains include influenza A virus H5N1 and H1N1, MPV, SARS-, NL63- and HKU1-CoV, HBoV, HRV-C and –D…’

‘The ultimate clinical significance of the new respiratory viruses is still poorly unknown in the elderly population but probably these infections are greatly underestimated…..Serious outbreaks have been reported in long-term care facilities.’

So the medical profession well knew that Influenza Like Illnesses including common cold viruses were demonstrably more deadly to the elderly and infirm than influenza many years before 2019, which makes the hospital clearances in Britain and the way in which they were conducted so much more incompetent.

And then

23 Jan 2020:

‘We talked to Dawn Bowdish, the Canada Research Chair in ageing and Immunity at McMaster University in Hamilton, about coronavirus, why the elderly are more likely to die from it and what we’ve learned since the SARS epidemic of 2003.

Speaking of vaccination, will vaccines be developed for this virus?

Sure. One of our best-case success stories for getting a vaccine made quickly came from the Ebola outbreak. We went from having tens of thousands of people being sick to quickly using pre-existing research and technology and getting a vaccine that works.
Unfortunately this family of viruses seems to be evading our ability to make good vaccines. Researchers are actively studying this family of coronaviruses but we don’t have anything after the research stage right now. But as these outbreaks become more and more common, there’s more money going into funding the research so we can be prepared for the next big pandemic.

And the SARS outbreak would have been the impetus?

Absolutely. We’re very interested in this collection of viruses because they seem to have such a huge potential. SARS was 2003, and this is like a blink of an evolutionary eye.’

So no question, either, but that the medical profession saw covid 19 as a way to get more funding into coronavirus vaccine research.

Vaccine research is useful to mankind. BCG vaccination is a good example.

The buck stops with governments for their incompetence and illiberal, quite possibly illegal, measures that they have taken, whether or not they have been manipulated by the medical profession and associated businesses….but that manipulation undoubtedly continues……

96921 Alpine, replying to Alpine, 44, #673 of 785 🔗

I wanted to share a few experiences from my work.
I’m a community psychiatrist, working closely with GPs, in the UK.
So far I have not worn a mask. I think they’re dehumanising.
Not long ago I met a young woman with her GP in a joint consultation. The GP knew I would not be wearing a mask, so she didn’t either, and the young woman took hers off when she came into the room. Within minutes it was possible to explore more about the young woman’s past. She welled up and told us she’d been sexually abused in childhood. This is the first time she had told healthcare professionals. I don’t think such a conversation could have happened if we were wearing masks (and certainly not over the phone/by video).
Another day I was leaving a GP practice where I had been working and overheard a patient having to shout into the intercom to tell the reception staff what he needed. He was not allowed into the building, despite a large perpex barrier erected at the reception. It was humiliating for him to give out personal details with passers-by able to hear. So much for confidentiality! In the end he stormed off in anger- no surprise, given he was being treated with little respect and humanity.
Another day, at another GP practice, I was about to join another GP for a joint consultation. The GPs met me in the corridor and said ‘oh, we have to wear masks’, I said ‘I won’t wear one. I can’t do my job properly with one’. She didn’t insist. Patient came in, wearing a mask. GP was also wearing one, I was maskless. Within a few minutes the patient asked if she could take her mask off. I said ‘of course’. Almost at the same time the GP also took hers off and suddenly we were three human beings in the room and the patient could tell us about her experience of having been taken hostage by the Taliban and we could link this to her emotional and bodily suffering. It was painful and human.
Recently I was also on ‘section duty’ (where we go round to do mental health act assessments for people who are very seriously unwell and may need involuntary hospitalisation). I attended assessments on a psychiatric ward and at a busy teaching hospital on a medical ward. Almost all the staff I saw in both settings wore masks, and there was an eerie, anonymous, uncaring atmosphere. I did not wear a mask anywhere and no-one said anything. However what I noticed is that as I looked at people and engaged with them, those wearing masks would naturally begin to pull them down, to smile and become human. It was very empowering. I think the patients were able to trust me more, and for one young woman there was enough of a therapeutic rapport established that we avoided sectioning her. She shook our hands at the end of the assessment!
I know that to some extent the degree of freedom in following through on my convictions is given to me by my role as a consultant. But I would encourage others to keep persisting in making use of our whole face to establish connections with others. You may find it has a very powerful humanising effect! It can be quite moving. I’m going to carry on, one interaction at a time.
I get much encouragement from reading these pages and comments. Thank you.

96929 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Alpine, 16, #674 of 785 🔗

I really don’t understand how medics everywhere aren’t loudly complaining and resisting mandatory masking. This is so serious. Where is any resistance from the professionals?


96944 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Two-Six, 13, #675 of 785 🔗

Exactly and it is so profoundly against everything a medic should stand for, holding patients hostage to compliance with a pointless symbolic gesture, before they can have potentially vital medical advice or treatment.

97093 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark, 1, #676 of 785 🔗

And which they must know causes physical and psychological harm. Where are their morals? MW

96934 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Alpine, 10, #677 of 785 🔗

In the supermarket unmasked (only shop I go to & as little as possible) I always smile at everyone & noticed children -who look worried when they see me -then smile back & look better! Faces are windows?

96949 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Keen Cook, 7, #678 of 785 🔗

I’ve been making it a point to smile cheerfully at everyone I encounter – even fleetingly – since this debacle began back in March, in order to try to help people feel less afraid in a world where fear is encouraged. I too find smiling has an infectious effect. (The downside is I’ve now got a permanent rictus grin.)

96974 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Alpine, 10, #679 of 785 🔗

Thank you for that considered non-rant; I fear that we all tend to just let off steam with the frustrations of the evil and inhuman absurdity of the current situation.

I am a frequent flyer in terms of the Health Service. Without the expertise of a great range of staff, I would not have survived the last six years – so I have little patience with generalised anti-NHS rants.In the US I would be broke, and probably dead.

I have watched this non-crisis unfold in hospitals from the very first of lock-up, and sensible hand-hygeine was instituted. If you wanted to clear the decks – then it was done very efficiently in the Trust here.

But that’s the point : the decks remained cleared long after the need had gone – and staff commented that they had rarely had less busy time. But the decks remained cleared. Worse, staff and patients were forced into wearing face coverings – despite their unproven usefulness and proven discomfort (at minimum). My conversations with staff confirmed their discomfort at the end of every day. The most absurd incident was sitting in a clinic next to a chap with COPD – in a mask. Note – the mask edict was implemented long after the infection was on the downward slope, as if it was suddenly, like Dracula, about to emerge from the grave.

Then, of course – the GP. I have a practice that has served me brilliantly when I have needed it. Now? It’s like trying to get into Fort Knox, with the enforcement of face coverings that clearly contradict the basic medical ethics around the harm/benefit equation.

Anyone who suggests this current situation is actually a logical response to the Panicdemic is having you on, I reckon – given the lack of any sane and proportionate medical rationale for most of the measures (at best). At worst, they are Mengele-type experiments that have no connection with the health of the victims. I put it at that level.

What I still find staggering is the way that the medical professions have bowed down to this nonsense regime – cowed into submission by propaganda and hierarchy, when it all flies in the face of the basic medical framework of ethics.

Thus I find myself using a quasi-religious term that normally refrain from using : ‘Evil’.

97000 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to RickH, 2, #680 of 785 🔗

Well said Rick. You can most definitely be a fan of the NHS in theory but be utterly aghast at the farce it has been the last few months.

97046 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 2, #681 of 785 🔗

I think there has to be a distinction between ‘the NHS’ as a service and ‘the NHS’ as the politically appointed/controlled administrative structure that is ‘NHS England’.

It is clear that the latter has imposed a dictatorial fiat on staff.

96977 ▶▶ covid_skeptic, replying to Alpine, 4, #682 of 785 🔗

Thank you sharing your stories. In Sydney the other day where masks are not required, I saw a mum wearing a mask tending to her baby in the stroller. And I thought that poor baby looking up her mum with that mask.

96922 mjr, replying to mjr, 11, #683 of 785 🔗

Dental services…
I have just been talking to my dentist, who i have not seen since last year and where i am now many months beyond when i should have had a check up. Fortunately i havent had any problems and whilst they would see me with an emergency they are not carrying out any routine and preventative work.
I specifically wanted a prescription from them for high flouride toothpaste (which is not available without prescription). This is something they recommended over a year ago. In the circumstances, and with this being a beneficial treatment, one would expect that they would write a prescription and put it in the post (as they have done before).
BUT NO! They are no longer doing this. They will not issue a prescription without seeing me, and they will not see me due to the Covid as it is not an emergency.
I tried the doctor but there is a demarcation issue so they cannot prescribe.
So my dentist is stopping me from using a treatment they recommend . Madness

96926 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to mjr, 4, #684 of 785 🔗

Like my dentist, they want you to pay £95 for an ‘emergency appointment’. Mine lasted 3.5 minutes.

96935 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mjr, 1, #685 of 785 🔗

Where on earth are they getting their money from? Unless they are getting money from the govt, I can only think they are still dealing with the backlog of the most serious issues from while they were closed. However, my dentist saw me for a routine check and hygiene appointment SEVEN weeks ago.

97008 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to mjr, 1, #686 of 785 🔗

Cavities: Symptoms, Causes and Support Strategies https://drjockers.com/cavities/

97023 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Victoria, 1, #687 of 785 🔗

Hi Victoria… I know you are keen on the alternative approaches!. It does make interesting reading and i think i follow most of that guidance anyway. I am just annoyed that the dentists are following such a warped process and depriving me of something which i do think is therapeutic . And also as it is on prescription it costs me nowt!!

96925 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 27, #688 of 785 🔗

The great crime is not the decision to go for lockdown – the Gov made a safety first judgement call with a lack of data – but the fact that when it soon became clear that we were not faced with a great plague they chose to pretend that we were rather than admit their mistake and go into reverse. They were prepared to fiddle figures, pump out fear inducing information and curb civil liberties in order to convince the unemployed, homeless, bankrupt and countless number of non-corvid ill that their suffering was the sad unavoidable result of a fight against a terrible virus rather than an a catastrophic Gov cock up.

96928 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Andrew, 12, #689 of 785 🔗

…and they’re still doing it.

96932 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Andrew, 19, #690 of 785 🔗

I think the decision to go for lockdown was also a great crime, as no cost benefit analysis was done, and an unprecedented measure with unknown consequences was undertaken. But that was a crime perhaps punishable by being banished to political obscurity and kept away from power forever, as unfit to govern.

The greater crime is the cover-up, a crime whose punishment must surely be more severe.

96963 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 7, #691 of 785 🔗

Agree. Worse still, the lockdown decision was made based on the modelling from a team with a well-established and well-known track record of massively over-estimating deaths in other viral and disease outbreaks, Moreover, the prime decision maker – Boris Johnson – would appear to have taken the decision having relied on the summary of ‘evidence’ provided by Dominic Cummings, a person who is neither elected, nor an expert in interpreting scientific evidence.

97150 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #692 of 785 🔗

Here are some of the useless predictions Ferguson made. 2005 he said 200 million would die of “bird Flu”, 440 people died, 2009 he said “swine Flu” would kill 65000 in the UK, 457 died, 2001 Ferguson said that 6 million healthy farm animals must be slaughtered and incinerated in huge festering piles all over the UK. A decision that is now considered to be deeply flawed. 2002 Ferguson predicted that 50000 would die from BSE or 150000 if it broke out in sheep, 177 people died.

96982 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 5, #693 of 785 🔗

Agree, but they would have got away with it if they’d ended the lockdown at the end of that first three-week period.

96989 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #694 of 785 🔗

They are still getting away with it. But even the three-week lockdown was immoral, and stupid.

97068 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #695 of 785 🔗

I agree, if schools had gone back after the Easter holiday and restrictions lifted with just robust advice to wash hands, stay at home if ill and additional precautions for vunerable groups it would have been OK, Not wonderful, still expensive but no exam fiasco and the economy would be in reasonably decent shape. In the long run, and quite possibly short term as well, there would be less deaths and less suffering as normal medical services would have resumed.

It cannot be proved but Sweden is strong evidence in favour.

96942 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Andrew, 18, #696 of 785 🔗

I think that it’s worse than that. They actually doubled-down on the original analysis – i.e. went in the opposite direction.

Remember (as has been said here) – a lock-up of unknown duration had never figured in any plan for dealing with an epidemic – even one of much greater severity (and this one was already downgraded in March). The only rational was for one of as short as possible duration to prevent health services being overwhelmed at the peak (and, in the event, this didn’t happen).

Now we are approaching the six-month mark; there is no epidemic; deaths have been within the normal range for a high infection years (only at the 3rd quartile in terms of a quarter of a century) – and yet we still have unheard of restrictions in terms of social activity and face coverings etc. that are sinister in the extreme.

Remember none of this is recommended in previous planning documents.

It has become the case that the propaganda-induced amnesia and compliance amongst the population has become the most evil domestic event of my lifetime.

96957 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RickH, 4, #697 of 785 🔗

Someone also posted up some analysis here yesterday on the % of cases where the virus was contracted in a care home or hospital. It was around 70%. If that is the case, an inquiry into that alone would be enough to blow this government wide open

97029 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #698 of 785 🔗

Looking at it coolly, however – even that mortality in care homes was partly a feature of a much higher than usual vulnerable population than resulted from many escaping death the previous year because of the exceptionally low level of infection.

In fact, we have, for the last decade, been going through a period of low mortality, which may have saved more elderly and infirm individuals for a longer period than would normally be the case.

In this situation, any sudden infectious disease spike would be expected to cause high mortality amongst that group – which it did.

97200 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to RickH, #699 of 785 🔗

Yes. It appears more likely that the simple change of how old people were treated – put back into homes to clear beds – rather than stay in the hospital was what led to the spike. Any infectious disease like you say would do the same thing.

96993 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 4, #700 of 785 🔗

Can anyone think of a more evil domestic event in the history of this country? Witch trials? Civil wars?

97109 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, #701 of 785 🔗

No. Perhaps the land reform clearances acts that caused thousands of Scotts to starve or the fabricated” Irish Potato Famine”. Both of those things were very evil.

97161 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, #702 of 785 🔗

To which can be added English enclosure – and the various predations of religious totalitarianism over history.

97177 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie124, replying to Julian, #703 of 785 🔗

The reformation? And the back-and-forth that followed. Nobody’s been burned at the stake over this (yet)

97069 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 2, #704 of 785 🔗

‘It has become the case that the propaganda-induced amnesia and compliance amongst the population has become the most evil domestic event of my lifetime.’

Absolutely right. MW

96981 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andrew, 4, #705 of 785 🔗

All they had to do at the end of that first three weeks, was point out that they now had the Nightingale Hospitals ready, time to go back to normal, here’s what you must do to protect yourselves (hand-washing, keeping a reasonable distance, and the like) and take all the steps you can to protect the vulnerable groups.

97021 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #706 of 785 🔗

The Nightingales were only ever equipped to treat those with ‘pure’ cv19 when it was expected that otherwise healthy people would be dropping like flies in Spanish flu style. The plan was always that anything more complex would need ‘proper’ hospital care. It was obvious early on that they were therefore both white elephants and red herrings, but admitting that would have undermined the fear narrative.

96983 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Andrew, 6, #707 of 785 🔗

The thing is they knew we were past the peak in infections before they went to lockdown on March 23. When questioned in a parliamentary sub-committee Witty admitted that the R rate was below 1. He would have known that once you get past the peak in a pandemic curve, infections/deaths will decrease almost as quickly as they increased. So the whole thing was based on a lie, the NHS was not in any danger of being overwhelmed.

97018 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Biggles, 2, #708 of 785 🔗

They couldn’t have known that the peak of infections had passed until several weeks after the peak of infections had passed. The relatively low testing capacity at the time meant that there was no positive diagnosis until the point of hospitalisation – this was when the PCR tests were being used properly to confirm a diagnosis when symptoms were present. The peak of deaths was around 8th April. This means that the peak of hospitalisations should have been around 1st April (this should be verifiable; I haven’t looked at it, I admit). A fall in 999 calls and hosspitalisations would have been the first indicator that infections were falling. And it would have taken a week or so to be sure that the falling numbers were an actual trend, rather than just statistical noise.

97033 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, #709 of 785 🔗

That’s right – except that, of course, we now know that the PCR test is a very rough and ready diagnostic tool.

97050 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 1, #710 of 785 🔗

Indeed. But the problem with it at the moment is that it’s not being used to confirm an observed diagnosis, it’s being used to hunt down invisible covids, symptoms or no. When it was only being used to test people being admitted to hospital with observable symptoms that made it very likely they were suffering from the disease, the results were a useful confirmation (though still not 100% accurate). That was when the tests were relevant.

The tests would also have been relevant if they had been used to check whether anyone had SARS 2 _before_ they were sent out of hospital into a care home. That would have been a good time to exercise the precautionary principle (and by using multiple tests to eliminate false negatives)

97122 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to matt, #711 of 785 🔗

There is this NHS dashboard which shows the 111/999 triage rate against ‘cases’. It is quite fun to play with as you can isolate different districts. However what they dont spell out is whether that is ALL triages, (e.g. chicken pox) or whether they are keeping a separate count of those people presenting with corona symptoms.


97083 ▶▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to matt, #712 of 785 🔗

OK, fair enough. In that case I don’t understand why Witty answered as he did in the parliamentary sub-committee.

97087 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Biggles, #713 of 785 🔗

He didn’t say they knew it at the time. He said that it now seems clear it was happening. Retrospectoscope and all that. Unfortunately, they don’t at any point seem to have used the retrospectoscope to work out that they got things badly wrong.

97059 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Biggles, 2, #714 of 785 🔗

By the way, a thought just occurred to me on this.

The peak of infections occurred some time (a few days) before 23rd March.

Based on the post here yesterday which worked out that >70% of the transmissions that led to infections that led to death occurred in hospitals and care homes, that seems to me strongly to suggest the following:
The “clearing of the decks” in the hospitals in the weeks running up to lockdown, not only led to the high number of care home deaths, but also in fact actually led to the majority of infections that caused the deaths in any setting.

97017 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Andrew, 5, #715 of 785 🔗

the Gov made a safety first judgement call with a lack of data

No, they panicked because they abandoned existing scientific advice on how to respond to a pandemic that had already become established, ignored advice dissenting from that of their limited circle of groupthinkers, failed to treat that groupthink advice with the caution it required (especially the modelling based advice that was by definition unreliable and a known exaggeration), and absolutely failed to carry out a proper multidisciplinary cost/benefit analysis for the decision.

That decision was at the least criminally negligent.

It was already apparent in February, let alone March, that we were not facing a disease significantly worse than a bad flu season.

96953 swedenborg, 2, #716 of 785 🔗


One of the first studies, retrospective, showing that HCWs in Massachusetts had less severe symptoms later in the pandemic supporting that the virus has attenuated.

“Our study provides epidemiologic support for the hypothesis of possible attenuated viral virulence regarding clinical severity. We found cases infected later in the pandemic were less likely to sustain a complication. Later cases were also more likely to have headache, which may portend a more favorable course”

96956 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 9, #717 of 785 🔗

Have you noticed how the government is now doing a lot of takeaways?

They took 5377 deaths from the sum total
They took 1.3 million tests out of the equation
Now it looks like they’re going to have to subtract lots of hospital admissions.

96972 ▶▶ steph, replying to Margaret, 6, #718 of 785 🔗

My hope is this is preparation for saying “We reacted in good faith when we had little or incomplete information. Now we know we have done really well and can ease off the restrictions much more quickly than anticipated. We will of course be keeping a close eye on matters in case it flares again”.
Call me a hopeless optimist. I’m not, I’m depressed as hell and really believe this is cock us rather than conspiracy and the powers that be are too scared to take any opportunity to climb down.

96975 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to steph, 2, #719 of 785 🔗

Cock up, obviously

96958 covid_skeptic, replying to covid_skeptic, 5, #720 of 785 🔗

I talked with some friends in the USA today. Unfortunately they are covid believers. They don’t question wearing a mask.

What drives me crazy is when they say “WE have a lot a cases”. or “WE have been doing really good with covid by wearing masks”. It is like they are brainwashed into owning it – I am not sure what it is.

96987 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to covid_skeptic, 2, #721 of 785 🔗

Cognitive dissonance rules. That’s why so many people are bonkers. MW

96965 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #722 of 785 🔗


“Remember there is a pretty high floor under hospitalizations because they now test everyone through the door and code them COVID if it comes back positive. The CDC reports that 25.7% of COVID-coded hospitalizations among women aged 15 to 49 are pregnant.

These pregnant women are not hospitalized for C-19 in the absolute majority of cases. They are just stamped as C-19 cases (and categorized as C-19 hospitalization case) being admitted for other reasons most likely pregnancy related.
This must also be happening in the UK and Europe so beware of hospitalizations C-19 figures in the urrent wave.

96968 ▶▶ Sally, replying to swedenborg, 6, #723 of 785 🔗

This routine testing will also sustain the death toll. Any of these patients admitted for non-Covid reasons who tests positive and then dies for reasons related to their other condition will be added to the death toll. Thus keeping the pandemic going …

96986 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Sally, 3, #724 of 785 🔗

Yes indeed, new depths are plumbed as we go further through this. One wonders how evil it will get. NZ, Aus and China, or worse?

97048 ▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to Sally, 1, #725 of 785 🔗

The other day I did this calculation on the death toll. Imagine you test every person in India and you come back with, say , 400 million people testing positive (not unlikely given serological surveys). Let’s say you count as a COVID-19 death if you die within 2 months of a positive test, and the death rate from all causes is about 8 per 1000 per year, that is ~1.33 per 1000 per 60 days. You’d get at least 530 thousand deaths ’caused’ by COVID-19 in India alone. Applying this logic to the entire world, you could get a few million deaths ’caused’ by COVID-19 just by testing.

96979 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #726 of 785 🔗

Only when I read this blog did I realise that I lived through the Honk Kong flu

I was 12/13 at he time, my parents didn’t even tell me, and I have no recollection of it. None of my five brothers and sisters ever mentioned it. No-one at school mentioned it

On a point of law:

As I understand it an authorised person’ which includes a PCSO or anyone authorised by the local authority (so it could include the local binman); has power to arrest me, detain me, and force me to undergo a medical procedure (a test)

They have power to detain me indefinitely until I provide a negative test

Is this true?

96984 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cecil B, 3, #727 of 785 🔗

That’s how I understand it. Shocking isn’t it?

96992 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DressageRider, 2, #728 of 785 🔗

Yes – it is a violation of the very foundations of a free and democratic society.

96985 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 3, #729 of 785 🔗

On the point of law, yes, that was my reading of it.

96994 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Cecil B, #730 of 785 🔗

You also lived through the Asian flu pandemic of 1958, although you, like me, were too young to know about it.

97019 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 3, #731 of 785 🔗

I knew about it, and caught both viruses – the first more seriously than the later one.

I wouldn’t wish a bad dose of influenza-type illness on anyone. But it’s one of the risks of life that we’ve always taken in our stride with sensible counter-measures.

97045 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to p02099003, #732 of 785 🔗

I recall having had bad flu as a child and spending christmas day in bed – so i must have been quite ill. It is only now that i think of how old i possibly was that this was likely to have been the Hong Kong flu of 1968/9. I think i was the only one in the family

96988 p02099003, 1, #733 of 785 🔗

I am going to submit an FOI to my local acute NHS trust (University Hospitals of Leicester) to request:
a) The number of patients admitted who tested positive for SARS-COV-2
b) The number of patients admitted who tested positive fo SARS AND who showed signs and symptoms of CoViD19
c) The number of patients admitted into ITU with serious signs and symptoms of CoViD19, e.g. ARDS, abnormal clotting, other inflammatory symptoms
d) a breakdown of a – c on a week by week basis as well as total numbers

This may be skewed slightly as Glenfield Hospital is a UHL hospital but covers a wider area as a cardiorespiratory centre.
If everyone on this forum did the same for their local acute trust then a truer picture would emerge, assuming that they withhold the information as not in the public interest or other get out clauses in the FOI legislation.

96991 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #734 of 785 🔗

I try not to listen to Blair but his statements do shine a light on the Greedy Blair Institute for Global Change closely linked to the Gates Foundation when he says, mask wearing will be here for some time until we are all vaccinated and we can go back to pre March days, when vaccinations will be frequent to keep Covid away. I actually think there is something seriously wrong with the man

97002 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #735 of 785 🔗


97012 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to T. Prince, 1, #736 of 785 🔗

Seems to be a necessary qualification for the role of PM these days.

96995 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #737 of 785 🔗

Looking into DELVE, which is part of the Royal Society:


This is their “facemarks study report”:


They are a data analytical group so no need for medical people, just data analysis.

Few gems from the “report/study” if you can call it that”

  • A series of controlled experiments in a hamster SARS-CoV2 transmission model
  • the majority of SARS-CoV2 infected individuals remain asymptomatic throughout infection. and “the index animal was “masked”’ – WTF?
  • There are no human controlled trials on the efficacy of universal mask use in stemming SARS-CoV2 transmission.
  • However, the conclusions of this study are not supported by the presented evidence , as summarized by a number of scientists requesting a retraction by the authors.

Underwhelming to say the least was my first and second impression reading through it.

Like the 6 countries study on diets it’s cherry picked data with what does not meet your preconceived ideas being ejected and not included – ergo, not mention of the 15 or 16 reals studies done using humans in surgical settings that contradict their finding completely.

97015 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #738 of 785 🔗

I think all new scientific studies that posit the efficacy of masks must have a huge question mark over them now. It has already been decided politically (and globally) that masks are useful and now scientists are trying to justify the policy, not the other way around. Even scientists who genuinely want to find out the truth will consciously or subconsciously err on the side of the prevailing zeitgeist with the political, social and of course financial pressures they will be under.

97049 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Achilles, 6, #739 of 785 🔗

Masks are a cult. They were never about safety. Nasty of me but I await with kindly interest the epidemic of mask-related ailments and how it will be spun. MW

97058 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #740 of 785 🔗

They’re a very successful part of the psy-op.

97090 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #741 of 785 🔗

AN INTEGRAL part of the psy-op.

96996 swedenborg, 2, #742 of 785 🔗

https://twitter.com/ifihadastick/status/1296659157215518722/photo/1 .

More data on excess deaths in age group 25-45 Tennessee

 Died of C-9 80 Excess death 468 What epidemic  died the other 388 of?
The epidemic of lockdown suicides, drug over dose? We don’t know yet but must be the explanation The CDC chief being so serious about suicide deaths and now pressing for school openings etc.
The interesting thing is that under 25 no excess death (also milder C-19) and also no apparent excess deaths in older age groups in Tennessee.
The excess deaths in this age group is devastating if you calculate years lost compared to average age C-19 death.

97001 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 6, #743 of 785 🔗

So, this ‘pandemic’ killed over 430 (!) Australians and tanked the economy to the tune of 450 BILLION dollars!!! Yes Toby you’re right. It is VERY sinister that this twonk wants a pseudo compulsory vaccination programme. FFS SAKE, WAKE UP AUSTRALIANS .

“I would expect it to be as mandatory as you can possibly make,” Morrison said in a radio interview. “We’re talking about a pandemic that has destroyed the global economy and taken the lives of hundreds of thousands all around the world, and over 430 Australians. So, you know, we need the most extensive and comprehensive response to this to get Australia back to normal.”

97009 ▶▶ RickH, replying to T. Prince, 9, #744 of 785 🔗

a pandemic that has destroyed the global economy”

No. An incompetent / evil political response that has destroyed the global economy.

97026 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to RickH, #745 of 785 🔗

Sorry didn’t read far enough below to see your comment.

97040 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to RickH, 6, #746 of 785 🔗

It’s gone beyond incompetence a long time ago. I would suspect everything being done now is social engineering and remodelling the global economy. Truly Evil.

97014 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to T. Prince, 3, #747 of 785 🔗

Politicians are the world’s best liars, 430 Australians shock horror, now how about the figures for how many died of cancer, heart disease during the same period.

97022 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to T. Prince, 6, #748 of 785 🔗

A pandemic has not ‘destroyed the global economy…’ – what has destroyed the global economy has been the govt and media response to said ‘pandemic’.

97106 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to T. Prince, 1, #749 of 785 🔗

I wonder if Australians really believe that pandemic destroyed their economy not Australian government.

97148 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to T. Prince, 2, #750 of 785 🔗


 My daughters school just called me & said I have to come pick her up… Because she sneezed. They said their policy is if they see a ‘mild’ symptom then children must stay home for 2 weeks & cannot return until I present them with a negative covid test result. She’s 7yrs old.
From Australia

97165 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 1, #751 of 785 🔗


97188 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to swedenborg, 1, #752 of 785 🔗

I see they’ve upped they’re training to be medically competent. Wonders never cease

97234 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to swedenborg, #753 of 785 🔗

maybe just an allergic reaction to idiotic teachers

97376 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to swedenborg, #754 of 785 🔗

Oh my word. Their country is truly going down the tube if the people allow this much longer

97007 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 1, #755 of 785 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8647387/Poll-Two-thirds-parents-intend-send-children-school-month.html Let’s assume that you are genuinely scared of sending your kids back because you had believed that what the Goverment told you about the virus. The Government therefore needs to start producing graphs showing the risk per age group and quoting the more likely to be struck by lightening statistic. But how do they do this politically without saying “we got it wrong”?

97051 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, #756 of 785 🔗

They pull some more false stats out of the hat, get their highy paid experts to conjure up a study and by the time it’s revealed as yet another fudge, the kids will have been back for weeks, no-one will have died and it will be a storm in a teacup.

97010 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #757 of 785 🔗

Telegraph reporting that hospitals admissions were over reported at height of pandemic. The whole thing is a scam

97032 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #758 of 785 🔗

The numbers game, it’s great until people discover what you’ve been up to.

97041 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #759 of 785 🔗


Hospital admissions for Covid-19 were over-reported at the peak of the pandemic, with patients who were taken in for other illnesses being included in outbreak statistics, it has emerged.
An investigation for the Government’s Science Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) found that people were being counted as Covid hospital admissions if they had ever had the virus, and were added to those being admitted directly due to it.
Government figures show that, at the peak of the pandemic in early April, nearly 20,000 people a week were being admitted to hospital with coronavirus (see graph below), but the true figure is unknown because of the problem with over-counting.

…. On Thursday night, experts warned that the miscalculation was particularly concerning because the number had been used to reflect the current state of the epidemic.

…. Prof Heneghan said: “This really does need sorting out as we go into the winter, otherwise we get into this noisy position where we can’t understand what’s going on. There will be loads of people coming in with different conditions who have survived this, so it’s a huge problem. It’s clouding our judgment as to whether the disease is having a significant impact.”

There are also wide discrepancies between NHS England admissions data and that reported daily by the Government.

…. Prof Heneghan said it was possible that in hotspot areas, such as Oldham (see video below), there was now nobody in hospital with an active infection, but it was impossible to tell from the way the data was being recorded.

97070 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #760 of 785 🔗

I’m beginning to wonder whether Heneghan and CEBM are being used here. He’s unpicking the numbers that have driven the fear piece by piece (which is great), but if the government want to try to rewrite the story to start getting things back to normal without taking the blame for their overreaction (I know opinions vary on whether they do in fact want that) then this is a great way to do it.

“You can’t blame us, guv – the numbers we were being shown made it look much worse than it actually was. Thank goodness for that Heneghan fellow, eh? Without him we might still be too scared to get on a bus and go to work.”

97098 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 2, #761 of 785 🔗

I’m just happy that the CEBM data and analysis is finally getting the air-time.

I don’t, however, think that the full implications are coming home to the general public. Let’s face it, the evidence that this is a manufactured Panicdemic has been on the table for ages – and it’s made FA difference.

97116 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 1, #762 of 785 🔗

I’m also pleased it’s happening, And also frustrated that the things he’s pointing out are things we’ve been talking about here for months, though credit to him for doing it so calmly.

Nothing in the official numbers has changed enough yet for it to change the narrative, but he’s chipping away slowly. First we reduce the death numbers by changing the rules back to something more sensible than they originally were. This has had the effect of making it look like the epidemic was over much earlier than it previously looked like is was. Now we take a chunk of the numbers of hospitalisations at the peak and throughout. That will have the effect of making it look like the situation was never quite as bad as it had seemed in the first place. The next logical step will be taking the people who were admitted for non-Covid but tested positive and then died for non-Covid reasons out of the death figures. And then looking at the actual death certificates to separate “from and with”.

I’m just saying that, if (I realise it is “if”) you want to get to a position where you can say to the country “gosh, what a balls up. Lucky we got rid of PHE, eh? Anyway, thanks for bearing with us – as you were, everyone” this would be a neatly subtle way of doing it.

97020 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #763 of 785 🔗

I got this from the Chair of my Craft Club. Great news! Craft Club can start again in September. Oh but:

For Craft Club to run again, there will be several changes and guidelines.

By entering the building you will confirm that you do not have Covid 19 or have been in recent contact (14 days) with someone who has. [how the fuck will I know this? Presumably I need to take a test every day along with everyone I’ve walked past in the last 14 days. Should I carry a notebook and a mobile testing kit, do you think?]

You will have to wear a face mask, use the hand sanitiser, maintain social distancing and put your name and contact number in the Track and Trace book.

Craft Club will have to meet in the main hall. There will be no extra cost. The small tables will be 2m apart and only 2 households at any one table.

You will have to bring all your own craft equipment and refreshments.

We will have to submit a risk assessment. I can do this when we know if sufficient of you wish to return.

[] there will now be a longer time between classes to facilitate cleaning etc.

Please can you kindly let me know whether you wish to come back to Craft club in September.

The Centre rules include:

7 Two metre markings will be placed on the floors.

8 The male and female toilets will be closed with only the disabled space in use. This allows for the restriction of queuing and for the toilet to be locked while allowing emergency access from the outside. [WTAF?]

9 [] The books [popular swap and drop system] will be moved from the main room to the small room and access will be on a one way in and out system one person at a time. Disposable protective gloves will be provided. Groups that have booked the small room will be offered the use of the main room at no extra cost.

10 The kitchen will be closed. Disposable plastic cups will be available for emergency use in the event of someone needing water. Users will need to bring their own refreshments.

As I am the club secretary, I have sent the following reply to her (It contains a lie actually, I don’t believe that they needed to make it this bad but the Centre is run by Nazis and zealots so I’m surprised they didn’t dream up worse!):

Thank you for this information.

I wish to make it clear that I fully understand that the Community Association trustees are complying with the current Government guidelines in what is being imposed on hirers and users and that they feel they have no choice but to abide by them.

However, I do not wish to attend Craft Club or any other activity in the Community Centre under these oppressive circumstances.

My position as the secretary of Craft Club is now clearly untenable and I therefore, regretfully, tender my resignation. I would be happy to sign anything needed to this effect e.g. for bank purposes.

I wish everyone well. I have missed Craft Club and other social activities very much. I continue to hope that sanity and rationality will return to this country before we lose everything we hold dear.

Best wishes

Can you imagine the joy of sitting sewing/knitting etc at separate tables in a mask, no brew and biscuits, everything sanitised to fuck? Toilet locked. This is a new low for our village and our community and I feel sick at heart because I know everyone else will just go along with it. This sheer insanity and the fact that they clearly don’t see it has probably scared me more than anything so far. MW

97028 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #764 of 785 🔗

So sad MW. I hope you can find a saner group to play out with.

97030 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #765 of 785 🔗

Thanks Cheezilla! Sadly, I don’t think there’s much hope round here. The High Peak has gone Karen Central and even most people who don’t believe the lies are just going along with it all for a quiet life.

Apart from AlanG, without whom life would be unbearable, a couple of local LSs and my ‘friends’ on here and a couple of other sites, I honestly don’t know what I’d do. None of our old friends understand and they don’t even want to. MW

97067 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #766 of 785 🔗

They HAVE been busy reading ‘guidance’, haven’t they? That first bit is from the ‘detention of infectious persons’ diktat. Full marks for research… and for being wankers, too.

97089 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #767 of 785 🔗

I feel for you. The orchestra I play with is just in the process of deciding whether to recommence rehearsals – within the strictures of the barmy ‘guidance’ which means, at best, that half the complement can meet together at any one time, whilst wind players are a dangerous component because they use their breath!

But beyond that, there is a sort of grateful acceptance of the inevitable that I find so depressing – instead of a massed chorus of “WTF!???”

Now – there are some of us who are members of the Old Fart’s Club who might have a genuine issue of assessing risk in relation to a respiratory infection (and that assessment would be pretty positive at the current time). But a large proportion of the membership fall in the under-40 age bracket, where there now is no sign of any mortality or of significant danger.

It was bad enough when Blair decided to bomb Bagdhad. Now the government is carpet-bombing our own country.

97095 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to RickH, 1, #768 of 785 🔗

Ah but remember the under 40’s have been told it’s their fault if Granny dies.

97111 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 4, #769 of 785 🔗

Leave it to Granny (and Grumpa) to f.ing decide if there’s a problem, and take appropriate action – is the answer.

97166 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 1, #770 of 785 🔗

The feeling is mutual, Rick II. We were both in an orchestra too. There is no sign of it re-convening and we’re not not hopeful. The last email from our hitherto robust conductor, some weeks ago, referred to ‘this awful virus’ and we’ve had a couple of bedwetting emails from colleagues. Even if people wanted to meet, conditions like the above would mean we couldn’t bear to be part of it.

I’ve been a musician of some sort all my life (even earned my living as a piano/organ player at times) and I’ve only recently stopped playing the French horn in favour of the viola. The idea that anyone is any danger from a wind-player’s breath – I don’t answer for the sound 🙂 – is total bollocks. All wind players know this and it was confirmed by a study done by the Vienna Philharmonic, back in May, for God’s sake!:


This also applies to singers which is why the ‘no-singing’ rule would be so cruel and pathetic even if there was a virus to catch these days. Ignorance, fear and tyranny rules and most people just cheer it on.

In 2003-6 when we held a vigil on a busy street corner every week against the Iraq war, people used to shout abuse at us such as ‘But he’s killing his own people!’. People just cannot see the irony, can they? MW

97221 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #771 of 785 🔗

If people want to be slaves, it’s impossible to free them.
Alternative, possibly underground, groups will spring up.

97331 ▶▶ Lili, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #772 of 785 🔗

Can people invite others to their own houses instead? The bedwetters can stay at home and the others can enjoy crafting again with tea, biscuits and the whole shebang.

97071 NickR, replying to NickR, #773 of 785 🔗

Interesting findings from the Zoe covid symptoms monitoring app. I think I’m right in saying it’s the world’s largest realtime survey. 1.6m people have contributed to their survey on diet & exercise during the lockdown. I suspect it’s a bit a of a self selecting group skewed to middle class engaged people but the results are still really interesting. Essentially it finds that people who’ve snacked, drank more & exercised less have put on about 3kgs & those who’ve drank less, snacked less & exercised more have lost about 2kgs each. A 5kgs delta is a lot! The vulnerable put themselves more in harm’s way, the less vulnerable become, well, less vulnerable.

97121 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to NickR, 2, #774 of 785 🔗

Lots of it is to do with stress. People react differently to stress.
I have been feeling stressed for months and have lost about 3 kg without any changes to the diet or exercise.
Some people over eat when stressed.

97206 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to JulieR, #775 of 785 🔗

same here

97077 Achilles, 2, #776 of 785 🔗

On the bright side, it’s Friday. #graspingatstraws

97082 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #777 of 785 🔗

This is a more detailed version of a post I put up earlier this morning.

A medical chap speaking at 7.48 this morning (Friday, 21st, August) on Radio 4 spoke of asymptomatic cases amongst young people being of concern because they would inevitably result in hospital admissions of more vulnerable people in five of six weeks time.

He cited what has happened in the southern states of America as bearing out what he said.

Anyone know what state or states he’s referring to?

He talked about “an increase in prevalence amongst a younger population”. Has this actually been tracked? Cases amongst younger people as opposed to older people and how that later might appear on hospital admissions?

He surely wasn’t mange it up was he?

97091 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ned of the Hills, #778 of 785 🔗

Florida and Texas were the ones where an increase in cases was highlighted in the media. I’m not aware that this actually led to an increase in hospitalisations/deaths however. It hadn’t last I checked.

97169 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, #779 of 785 🔗

‘cases’? MW

97404 ▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #780 of 785 🔗

In Leicester the asymptomatic cases which started our local lockdown were found in mid June. They then tested more and more and more people which is why Leicester is still in local lockdown now. Cases aka well people with positive tests remain at the same Very low steady rate. However in all that time (so now 2 plus months), hospital admissions and ITU admissions have continued to be really low and have fallen and continued to fall. Leicester has had no deaths from covid in nearly 3 weeks…
The same story as Manchester etc and all the other local lockdown places…

97132 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #781 of 785 🔗

Went into my local national craft shop today, wearing exemption lanyard, lots of masked sheep in, but at the check out there is a big sign telling them to remove their mask if they are buying scissors or glue, which the elderly man next to me had to do. The masked sheep will be the death of our Free Society.

97154 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dan Clarke, #782 of 785 🔗

UK Society been dead for the last 20 years.

97195 ▶▶ anon, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #783 of 785 🔗


people are giving away their freedoms

because a stupid sign tells them.

this is an eye opening display of how well the brain washing has worked. I’m lost for words.

how about this one:

Walk off the cliff for COVID
-Face coverings are mandatory
-Orderly queues
-Look away if you see another face
-Close your eyes and walk through the dark curtains as fast as you can manage

97175 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #784 of 785 🔗
97561 Edna, 2, #785 of 785 🔗

Very good piece in the DT by Sarah Knapton (behind a paywall I think)


Coronavirus death rate continues to fall – despite more positive tests

Research shows that, if there had been a correlation between rise in cases and deaths, fatalities should have risen to around 35 per day

Instead, deaths are hovering at around five with the numbers declining all the time, suggesting Britain may soon experience its first day with no deaths at all.

Carl Heneghan is quoted:

“”Admissions data should be driving our response now, not case data. You could have 1,000 people and if there are no admissions then you’re building up a population that is resistant to create breaks in the transmission chain when you get to February and March.

“However, what has happened is the rapid increase spooked everyone and now they are in this mode where it is the precautionary principle and people are trying to negate a risk which isn’t out there right now.

“It’s time we had a chief epidemiologist who is responsible for the production and oversight of the data.”


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69Two-Six1, 2, 6, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 3, 0, 3, 3, 1, 2, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 5, 16, 1, 0, 3, 0
66DJC55, 8, 3
65Mr Dee5, 17, 3, 3, 0, 2, 2, 2, 1, 0, 1, 8, 3, 7, 4, 7
63RickH3, 3, 10, 2, 18, 3, 0, 0, 2, 3, 1, 9, 1, 2, 2, 4
63Mark5, 0, 4, 1, 3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 0, 7, 3, 1, 2, 0, 9, 2, 13, 5
62Basics88, 1, 8, 4, 2, 3, 2, 0, 0, 4, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 4, 2, 1, 2, 0, 5, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1
60Ovis41, 16, 3
57Rabbit45, 10, 2
54NickR16, 2, 3, 7, 20, 4, 1, 0, 1, 0
52Lisa from Toronto17, 6, 25, 4
45Montag Smith18, 6, 9, 12
45Bart Simpson8, 1, 0, 7, 0, 0, 20, 6, 1, 2, 0
38Ruth Sharpe31, 5, 2
36Lockdown_Lunacy6, 30
35Nick Rose1, 0, 4, 1, 0, 1, 10, 2, 0, 1, 0, 2, 1, 1, 2, 5, 4
34Cheezilla2, 3, 1, 0, 5, 8, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 2, 0, 1, 0, 1, 4, 0, 1, 2
33peter33, 0
32Snake Oil Pussy31, 0, 1, 0
31OKUK0, 6, 1, 1, 7, 2, 11, 3
31Victoria101, 0, 5, 2, 6, 0, 6, 1
30Margaret22, 8
30snippet14, 14, 2
30Sarigan2, 1, 2, 1, 6, 1, 1, 16
29Achilles10, 212, 4, 1
28Dan Clarke2, 3, 3, 7, 3, 7, 3
28RyanM3, 7, 1, 1, 4, 1, 0, 1, 1, 5, 1, 1, 2
27Peter Thompson27
27Biker0, 4, 5, 2, 2, 2, 12
26Tom Blackburn511, 2, 8
26Barney McGrew2, 3, 3, 5, 6, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1
26MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG00, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 6, 8, 3, 1, 0
26karenovirus2, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 3, 3, 2, 0, 1, 10, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0
23Richard O5, 4, 0, 2, 4, 4, 2, 1, 1
22mhcp2, 2, 5, 1, 0, 2, 5, 1, 3, 0, 1
21davews2, 0, 15, 0, 2, 1, 1
19Klein16, 1, 2
17Awkward Git7, 6, 4
17Cecil B0, 2, 2, 7, 2, 4
17Charlie Blue3, 7, 0, 4, 1, 0, 2
16Jay Berger79
16Sue15, 1
16Eddie4, 1, 0, 2, 1, 8, 0
16richard riewer02, 2, 0, 2, 2, 0, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1
15ikaraki13, 2
15tonys2, 1, 12
15watashi1, 5, 9
15ConstantBees4, 2, 2, 2, 5
15mjr2, 1, 11, 1, 0, 0
15Andrew Fish3, 3, 4, 0, 0, 3, 2
15Mark II3, 0, 5, 2, 1, 2, 2
14Rowan15, -1
14Kath Andrews0, 5, 9
12Simon Dutton57
11Gerry Mandarin29
11AN other lockdown sceptic20, 9
11BeBopRockSteady1, 6, 4
11James Leary #KBF0, 3, 2, 1, 1, 4
10Keen Cook10
10yendi dial10
10TheBluePill0, 10
9Steve Martindale9
9covid_skeptic4, 5
9Dave #KBF6, 3
9stefarm4, 5
9T. Prince3, 6
9Not Tiger Woods6, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 2
8steph6, 2
7Alan Billingsley7
7Nicky7, 0
7Biggles6, 0, 1
7Winston Smith1, 3, 3
7Ned of the Hills0, 1, 4, 0, 0, 2
6Strange Days6
6Tim Bidie6
6Country Mumkin4, 2
6Lms231, 5
6RDawg4, 2
6Sally0, 6
6Seansaighdeoir0, 6
6Nobody20204, 0, 1, 1
6Edward0, 1, 1, 1, 3
5anon0, 5
5Howie592, 0, 3
5Sam Vimes3, 1, 1
5Fiat3, 1, 1, 0
5DressageRider0, 1, 1, 0, 3
4Sophie1231, 3
4adele1, 0, 3
3arfurmo2, 1
3KBuchanan1, 2
3JohnB2, 0, 1
3JulieR0, 1, 2
3RichardJames0, 0, 2, 0, 1
2A Heretic2
2Paul Mendelsohn2
2Bella1, 1
2nottingham690, 2
2Jonathan Palmer1, 0, 1
2PWL-4, 4, 2, 0
2John Mirra1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
1Doctor Y1
1Heading home1
1Locked down and out1
1rational actor1
1JohnB0, 1
1smurfs1, 0