2020-08-22

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/08/22/latest-news-111/
Published2020-08-22T11:20:20
Last updated2020-08-22T17:47:22
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:05
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98436 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1 of 1168 🔗

I will let someone else be first…

98443 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #2 of 1168 🔗

Me!!

98537 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, #3 of 1168 🔗

A most ingenious paradox!

99128 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mr Dee, #4 of 1168 🔗

It is a far, far better thing I do today…

98454 Panda, replying to Panda, 76, #5 of 1168 🔗

I’m resigned to the fact now that whoever the dark globalist forces are behind this “pandemic”, they aren’t going to let us out of it anytime soon.

Despite the overwhelming evidence that this virus is much less deadly than flu, they simply replace the death figures with apocryphal tales of people getting long term health effects from the virus instead. This keeps the propaganda susceptible masses in perpetual fear and, most importantly, compliant.

I initially thought that this might have something to do with the US election in November. Trump caused an immense amount of damage to globalists in his first term and I supposed that they would try to use this phoney crisis to depose him (they certainly won’t do it via the ballot box following the BLM communist coup). Now I’m not so sure that my initial conspiracy goes far enough to explain what is going on here.

I’ll keep resisting and spreading the word, but I can’t see any way out of this in the short to medium term.

Proud to be a covid/lockdown skeptic and many thanks to Toby for giving us this platform to vent our frustrations on!

98465 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Panda, 24, #6 of 1168 🔗

You can bet that the green, Climate Cataclysm , Greta crowd will be cheering at the result of johnsons idiot quarantine ‘policy’ . He has forced the bulk of us to abandon the skies of our own choice without the need for taxation or air mile rationing and all he needs to do to extend that is to extend his grizzled Enabling Act next month.

The Special People will, of course, be exempt as they amble seamlessly through Covid free VIP lounges.

98481 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Panda, 12, #7 of 1168 🔗

Have you seen the plandemic film? It’s an extremely interesting investigative piece of work and they have of course joined some dots (we can all do that on different subjective ways of course), but it’s very interesting nonetheless. Prob worth a look, even if just for interest which can be dismissed.

98500 ▶▶▶ Panda, replying to Country Mumkin, #8 of 1168 🔗

I haven’t yet, but I will check it out this afternoon. Thanks!

98510 ▶▶▶ Humeanbeing, replying to Country Mumkin, #9 of 1168 🔗

What’s it called and where can it be seen?

98524 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Humeanbeing, 4, #10 of 1168 🔗

https://plandemicseries.com/

Your word is my command!

98563 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Humeanbeing, 1, #11 of 1168 🔗

plandemicseries.com It was on youtube and some others but got banned within 24 hours. Many millions have seen it already.

98980 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to nat, #12 of 1168 🔗

You can download it from their site and keep it permanently on your hard drive to share. They actively encourage it

98536 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Country Mumkin, #13 of 1168 🔗

Watching it in bits and pieces when I can. Great so far!

98568 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #14 of 1168 🔗

Yes you are right, I am not sure about the dot connecting conclusion but nonetheless some astonishing evidence put together. Well worth watching !

108638 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to nat, #15 of 1168 🔗

What is it about the conclusion you can’t get to grips with.

98621 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #16 of 1168 🔗

I’ll see it… yesterday saw again Outbreak with Dustin Hoffman…spot on!

98770 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #17 of 1168 🔗

I forgot to mention I posted a link for Pandemic2 on Facebook and received a notice on the post from PolitiFact Ministry of Truth to stop the spread of fake news :

Fact checking “Pandemic 2” Another video full of conspiracy theories about COVID-19

comment image

98837 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to nat, 19, #18 of 1168 🔗

Since Facebook and other media started censoring information, know one thing: If the information is censored that is exactly what we should be reading

Fact checked – what a joke. They are self-appointed and sponsored by big interests

99003 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Victoria, 3, #19 of 1168 🔗

They are Big Brother.

108639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to richard riewer, #20 of 1168 🔗

Brother Bill Gates.

99291 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Victoria, 1, #21 of 1168 🔗

Yes I think it’s a good way to make something go viral !

99113 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to nat, 4, #22 of 1168 🔗

Politifact – are they the ones that admitted Susan Rosenberg is on the fundraising board of BLM, admitted she was convicted & imprisoned on weapons charges and possession of ‘hundreds of pounds’ [their words I think] of explosives – but had the gall to fact check that it is not necessarily the same as being convicted of a terror offence?

99282 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Not Tiger Woods, 3, #23 of 1168 🔗

They do have an agenda against POTUS.

108640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carlo, #24 of 1168 🔗

Not just POTUS.

99289 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Not Tiger Woods, #25 of 1168 🔗

Unbelievable isn’t it ?

99000 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #26 of 1168 🔗

Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAZ9KCNDSek&feature=youtu.be

and other Corbett reports.

99015 ▶▶▶ drrobin, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #27 of 1168 🔗

Are you referring to this one, Country Mumpkin?

“Plandemic indoctornation” https://londonreal.tv/plandemic-indoctornation-world-premiere/

I was sceptical, and asked on here the other day if it’s worth watching. I watched it on Thursday. Someone suggested it was, and as per her comment, I’d dearly love it to be rubbish.

I note many points it makes are similar to the Corbettreport.com work which provides more extensive research and life history of Gates’ and his foundation, just one example here:
“Meet Bill Gates” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSvhPnUgyz8

…but Plandemic has intereresting details on control of narative, discussing links between fact checkers, Politifcat / Poynter, and others. As Nat notes below, links to the site result in ‘warnings’ – ironic that those producing such warnings are part of the the focus of the video.
It also covers information gleaned re Corona / Wuhan Institute Research from the world of patents, some interview with Dr Judy Mikovits and various other info. It’s a really good production values, but doesn’t have the sort of links to documenation James Corbett does.

Similar theories to points made by Dr Vernon Coleman etc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhYX8RzyMC4

I’ve worked in scientific community much of my life, and I find it rather troubling that this is the first time I’ve seen such a disjoint between fact sources and media outlets that I’ve had to go out searching for information (e.g. here, since Toby first started the site), and troubling that I consider even an element of videos like plandemic likely enough to be valid to warrant thinking about. Let alone commenting on a thread. Still; these are troubling times so there’s a first for anything.

I’m rather interested in other lockdown secptics views so keeping a general eye out over the comments to Toby’s articles. Whilst a huge group now, most have been a good intelligent bunch; neither Tin Hat conspiracy theorists nor Covid Bed Wetters.

99327 ▶▶▶▶ adele, replying to drrobin, #28 of 1168 🔗

The only thing that made me question what they were saying was the part about the CDC patenting coronavirus, it’s detection and the kit to measure it. If that’s the case, why are the primers published for all to see? Labs all over the world are producing their own tests. Maybe I missed something.

108645 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to adele, #29 of 1168 🔗

Are your deckchairs neatly lined up?

99337 ▶▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to drrobin, 4, #30 of 1168 🔗

I’m not watching Plandemic as it sounds more tinfoil hat 5g. I’m here for the practical side of the science, economic and social decay. It’s politically motivated now but I don’t think that there’s any deliberate plan and that they started with good but very misguided intentions. I don’t think that there was a cover up other than from China.

99554 ▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Caramel, #31 of 1168 🔗

why not watch it and then come to your conclusions?

99905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to watashi, #32 of 1168 🔗

Because I’ve already read summaries and know what it’s about.

100412 ▶▶▶▶▶ drrobin, replying to Caramel, #33 of 1168 🔗

Half of me is inclined to feel similarly, Caramel.

I can’t abide 5g / tinfoil hat stuff. I wish Ike would be quiet. He’ll appear at protests next weekend, and he’s what the press will report. It will make the sensible protest look ridiculous.

RE plandemic, like the fact checkers that suggest it contains false information (ironically it contains information about fact checkers), if I remember correctly, it also has a section re how comedy frames all such documentaries as 5g / tinfoil hat. In fact, specifically, it showed a comedy commenting on tinfoil hat / 5g, and then turning to plandemic. Looking at Mikki Willis’s work, I’m not sure he’s about manipulation of his audience.

Once in an ‘wow these are a farce’ mindset, it is easier to dismiss.

I’d dearly love to dismiss it, but the triangulation with other documentaries makes me consider it might be worth considering.

Like you, I’m hear for science, stats, and effects of lockdown, but part of me worries that it provides a distraction. We plot graph after graph and say ‘There. Game over Covid19’, and govt advisors can’t fail to see these figures…. yet bizarre restrictions and lockdowns continue.

Within my grey matter, the audience is still out…

108659 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to drrobin, #34 of 1168 🔗

You and your friend Caramel are beyond all hope. You are both clearly trolling. Your grey matter is a very much an endangered species.

108656 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Caramel, #35 of 1168 🔗

If the tinfoil hat fits, then you should wear it. You can’t comment on something, that you haven’t seen and expect to be taken remotely seriously.

108634 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Country Mumkin, #36 of 1168 🔗

There’s nothing in the film, that can be easily dismissed.

98678 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Panda, 5, #37 of 1168 🔗

Precisely. They can’t know about any long term effects given that it has not been around long term anyway. Pure tactical scaremongering.

98978 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Panda, 2, #38 of 1168 🔗

We have to be more optimistic than that

108663 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bella, #39 of 1168 🔗

There is very little room for optimism.

99410 ▶▶ flyingjohn, replying to Panda, 1, #40 of 1168 🔗

If there are any doubters about the global plan to use the Covid pandemic as cover for ‘The Great Reset’, planned by the elite (aka the 3%) at the World Economic Forum, then this 20 minute video should convince you.

https://m.facebook.com/325587657821343/posts/1171343713245729/

99411 ▶▶ flyingjohn, replying to Panda, 3, #41 of 1168 🔗

I believe there is a globalist agenda led by the WEF (aka Davos) which includes, of course, Big Pharma. They stand to make millions, perhaps trillions of dollars from a global vaccine programme. But the virus is dying too soon, so they have to keep up the fear and keep us subdued and compliant, hence the mask edicts (mind control). The masks, like the scaremongering, social distancing and clapping is a sophisticated system of mind control. We are being conditioned to accept more and more authority and less and less civil liberties. It may have started as a virus and public health thing, but it’s no longer about that. It’s about central government control.

I think Johnson is being manipulated. He and his Ministers are too naive and stupid to come up with a plot like this. I hear people say that they are disappointed in BoJo and expected him to have a pair of balls. He never, ever did. He’s an empty vessel, a very good example of politicians controlled by the State, Civil Service etc. May, Cameron and Major are other good examples of puppets, but Boris is in a class of his own.

God help us.

99602 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Panda, #42 of 1168 🔗

It is not about getting rid of the hapless Trump, it is much much bigger than that. Those “globalist dark forces” you rightly mention have planned this game changing event for years and they won’t let it go, without one hell of a fight.

The dark forces, are fronted by the eugenicist Bill Gates, and what they want is massive global depopulation. They see this as a way of saving the planet from choking on its own pollution and so allowing those left to then have what they term as “sustainable development”. The globalists do have a good point here, but they ought to set a good example and start by eliminating themselves first.

The chosen method for carrying the cull is almost certainly the long hyped Covid-19 vaccine. It will be debilitating for most and is likely to be quickly lethal for the old and ill.

Gates used to talk about a 10-15% global population reduction, but I would suggest that it’s now a safe bet, that the targets have been revised to significantly higher levels.

98455 Albie, replying to Albie, 26, #43 of 1168 🔗

Before their recent redundancies, the Guardian would have been all over that R rate/Sage want Lockdown story. Maybe the penny is dropping- lockdown means less sales and advertisers means redundancies. They’ve buried it lower down. The Jekyll & Hyde Telegraph on the other hand makes it the main item. They really need to stop this flip flopping between scaremongering and scepticism.

98459 ▶▶ PD, replying to Albie, 15, #44 of 1168 🔗

The DT, like the Graun and the BBC have taken The Gates’ shilling.

98468 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to PD, 17, #45 of 1168 🔗

I can believe that.

I’m now convinced all those in elected authority are puppets.

Must be a vaccine game if they want zero Covid. The bed wetting science advisors know they can’t achieve that.

The virus is all too obviously gone. Or where existent, is not doing harm.

98491 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to PD, 6, #47 of 1168 🔗

Is there a pie in which the Gates’ don’t have their fingers?

98497 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to stewart, 12, #48 of 1168 🔗

Yes there is – the one which was hurled into his face a few years ago.

98504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #49 of 1168 🔗

I saw that for the first time the other day.

98533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #50 of 1168 🔗

Satisfying isn’t it.

98949 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Mr Dee, #51 of 1168 🔗

It was.

98985 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Country Mumkin, #52 of 1168 🔗

Link please or reference?

99507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Bella, #53 of 1168 🔗

It was in the plandemic documentary Country Mumkin mentions above.

99048 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Mr Dee, #54 of 1168 🔗

Should have been an axe

98855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nat, 2, #56 of 1168 🔗

Yes. He hugely funded the atrocious Eat Lancet report last year. 

99302 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to stewart, #57 of 1168 🔗

No, not if the pie filling has anything to do with world health policy.

108666 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to stewart, #58 of 1168 🔗

Not many, well hardly any.

98495 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to PD, 5, #59 of 1168 🔗

Thanks so much for highlighting this very important piece of info. I had not realised these newspapers were funded in this way.

lockdown skeptics… please check these links out from PD.

Absolutely shocking…

98486 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Country Mumkin, 17, #60 of 1168 🔗

Governments have f*cked up and cause untold damage.

Many infections and few hospitalisations or deaths is the evidence.

So destroy the evidence – i.e. eliminate cases on the premise that they are too dangerous to live with.

They will never admit to it, because the reckoning would be terrible.

it’s a cover up.

98509 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to stewart, 1, #61 of 1168 🔗

Yes it sounds right. What’s your view on what will happen next? Or eventually?

98540 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Country Mumkin, 19, #62 of 1168 🔗

Who knows.

UK government can’t move alone. It has already u-turned once away from the “Swedish” strategy and won’t flop back – it would be a disaster for them. They’ve committed to being part of the international herd and will move as the rest of the international herd moves.

Media, CDCs, WHO are all 100% invested in this and would have a lot of explaining to do if they suddenly flipped.

And worst of all the idea that COVID is really dangerous and needs to be suppressed is deeply embedded in the psyche of populations around the world, not just the UK.

The only thing that I can see derailing this is a really, really bad economy. Not exactly something you want to be rooting for, but…

Bleak times. Very bleak.

98553 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stewart, 18, #63 of 1168 🔗

Plausible, but the problem is they are at the forefront of the herd galloping towards the cliff edge. There are many ways they could have reduced the harm if it were a matter of just not openly U-turning.

Stupidity like masks and quarantines could have been avoided, and the state propaganda machine turned to highlighting the economic costs rather than fantasy covid dangers, months ago, in order to shift opinion and allow further moves,.

98573 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, 2, #64 of 1168 🔗

a tactic used to good effect by the native americans
Here it is not so much a herd mentality ,. more a lemming mentality

98663 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to mjr, #65 of 1168 🔗

And then it was used against the Native Americans by the settlers.

98857 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 7, #66 of 1168 🔗

They could have trumpeted the success of their policies, highlighted the drop in fatalities etc and lifted lockdown weeks ago – if they’d wanted to.
Why are they prevaricating and playing for time? Nothing to do with a virus.

98569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to stewart, 14, #67 of 1168 🔗

Just wait until next time when there is an outbreak of something that is actually contagious and dangerous. Will anyone take it seriously? We know the story of the boy that cried wolf.. Well us older ones do.. The young ones wont as it is not on the national curriculum.
Unfortunately WHO has burnt its bridges.

98605 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to mjr, 11, #68 of 1168 🔗

Do you remember pandemics being a thing growing up? I don’t.

And yet since SARS in 2003, it seems as if every few years they’ve wanted to peddle a pandemic. Bird flu in 2005, then Swine Flu in 2009, MERS in 2012 and now COVID.

You’ve bought the idea that a lethal disease is coming sooner or later. Don’t.

98615 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to stewart, 8, #69 of 1168 🔗

No – not at all ,, I dont think a lethal disease is coming and certainly not as a pandemic . However there is always the chance of an outbreak of something (whether natural or man made ) even on a local basis and the point that i am making is that once people realise that the Covid Pandemic was a fraud then any future issue will be treated with derision .
And i am old enough to have had HongKong flu in 1968 although at the time it wasnt a pandemic… it wasnt even noticed. But i agree that in recent years the authorities are continuing to cry wolf with the latest pandemic.

98629 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to mjr, 5, #70 of 1168 🔗

Good point about the possibility of a man made disease.

In my darker moments, I wonder whether this is all preparation for biological warfare. The Chinese seem to have their population fully under control and if we don’t we are more vulnerable to a biological attack that they are.

Then I snap out of it and go back to the less terrifying ‘incompetence mixed with bad actors pursuing narrow interests’ explanation.

98653 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to stewart, 1, #71 of 1168 🔗

or chemical …. Just think of another Salisbury incident on a greater scale or the various Sarin attacks around the world I can see a scenario where in a couple of years time when people realise what the covid fraud and lockdown has cost them, precautions against such a threat are treated with contempt.
But i agree with your last sentence !

98689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to mjr, #72 of 1168 🔗

Will they wake up to the fraud? It should be obvious by now.

98668 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, 2, #73 of 1168 🔗

The New World Order is not a narrow interest.

98897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to mjr, 3, #74 of 1168 🔗

I too had Hong Kong flu, as did my mother, though interestingly we were the only two out of our family of 6 who got it. And even more interestingly out of we four siblings, I have since had flu several times, and only one other sibling has had it and she only once!! I must be an interesting case….It is only recently that I’ve realized that’s what we had, as I worked out roughly how old I must have been when we had it. I can’t even remember whether we knew at the time that it was “Honk Kong flu”, or that it was a pandemic.

98667 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, 5, #75 of 1168 🔗

If countries around the world keep fiddling about with infectious bacterias in labs then the next one might be hundreds of times more devastating. A Super/Ultra Virus.

98858 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #76 of 1168 🔗

You’ve forgotten the power of the propaganda machine already?

98662 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, 1, #77 of 1168 🔗

Didn’t Dickens write a novel with the word bleak in it?

98698 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to stewart, 3, #78 of 1168 🔗

I’m hoping for some dissent from Tory MPs and perhaps leadership contenders (Michael Gove?) once Parliament reform next month… it seems beyond insane that they’re taking a “summer break” at the minute, but everything at the minute is insane so I shouldn’t be suprised.

I suspect there will be some pushback in US Republican states, even before the election, now that the virus is starting to subside there again.

98588 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #79 of 1168 🔗

2 years of wakamole quarantine /lockdown while Johnson and his crew flail about trying to get out of the quagmire they created through ineptitude.

98945 ▶▶▶▶ Wesley, replying to John Stone, 1, #81 of 1168 🔗

A commenter has pointed out they have accepted a large grant from the Gates Foundation, so no wonder.

98581 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PD, #82 of 1168 🔗

The Covid advertising thrup’ny bit as well.

99298 ▶▶ nfw, replying to Albie, 2, #83 of 1168 🔗

Imagine, if you can, a virus so deadly you have to be tested to know if you have had it? Well, we live in Rod Serling’s Twilight Zone everyday now thanks to stupid politicians who want more power and control and can’t admit they were both wrong and lied to us.

98456 Commander Jameson, replying to Commander Jameson, 34, #84 of 1168 🔗

I recently led a training session on Zoom for German oncologists. There was quite some discussion on what sensible precautions to take to mitigate the covid infection risk in these vulnerable patients, many of whom are taking meds that specifically impact the immune system (with obviously not good implications should they get covid on top). No talk of giving up on treatment altogether, just how to switch things around.

German cancer patients are still being diagnosed and treated. Why is it, apparently, so difficult in the UK?

98463 ▶▶ Panda, replying to Commander Jameson, 33, #85 of 1168 🔗

That’s encouraging news to hear from Germany. My wife is a consultant anaesthetist in the NHS and I can confirm that she spent four months doing absolutely nothing.

They put all the anaesthetists and surgeons doing onto specialist covid teams, where my wife’s job was to roll patients over from their side to their front. She treated a grand total of 3 covid patients in four months (at a usually extremely busy London hospital) Meanwhile, her usually packed oncology lists were empty.

They are resuming with life threatening surgery now, but in order to catch up or even stand still with the elective surgeries, it will take around 3-5 yrs.

98471 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Panda, 13, #86 of 1168 🔗

It’s great to hear these real life stories from the front line. How does your wife feel about the situation?

My cousin in law also does the same job as your wife. And my dentist friends sister also the same job. They concur.

98492 ▶▶▶▶ Panda, replying to Country Mumkin, 62, #87 of 1168 🔗

Hi. My wife began, like most of the NHS, believing that this virus was a sort of bubonic plague. This – we now know – was as a result of hysterical reporting coming out of Italy by media and their own health service. The situation in Italy was never as serious as it was initially portrayed.

She very quickly realised that this was not another 1918 flu type situation and the only people that appeared to be at risk were elderly obese men, many of whom had darker skin tone. It did kill some of these people in her hospital when their only treatment strategy was to put people suffering from the virus on ventilators (my wife thinks this treatment method probably killed them although they didn’t know it at the time). They now use anti inflammatory drugs and zinc to manage this and nobody has died from covid in months.

Now she is just angry at what the government is doing and the myriad of overreactions we’re seeing. She isn’t political at all, she genuinely just wants to help people and make them better and, ironically, the government is hellbent on making this much harder than it needs to be.

98522 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Panda, 7, #88 of 1168 🔗

Hi Panda 232

Thank you so much for sharing your wife’s story. She sounds lovely and realistic.

I’ll try to get some more info from the two anaesthetists I know and share also.

My GP friend is very different and has behaved in a very authoritarian manner toward me and others I’m terms of risk, how we should behave, where we should go etc. It hasn’t been pretty awful to interact with her.

Thanks again
CM

98564 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Country Mumkin, 11, #89 of 1168 🔗

Is there no way that all these excellent NHS people can get together and exert some
pressure?

98578 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 16, #90 of 1168 🔗

No, from care assistants to senior consultants they have been threatened with career ruination if they spill the beans about what is and is not going on.

And what happened to whistleblowers being protected?

98583 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to annie, 7, #91 of 1168 🔗

This needs some serious and organised documentation. These people need to be talked to, their stories taken down, and published, under aliases if necessary, and then circulated to all in authority and the media. Just seen Karenovirus post .. I stress . Under aliases with identity confirmed for genuineness but anonimity guaranteed

98593 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to mjr, 4, #92 of 1168 🔗

There is a new website listed in today’s roundup called questioningcovid. Lots of whistleblowers there, including an ICU doctor from NY, claiming the ventilators were killing patients

98672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nat, 8, #93 of 1168 🔗

Some people were saying that ventilators were dangerous as early as last April.

98673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to richard riewer, 2, #94 of 1168 🔗

Yes it was a while back that the NY doctor was claiming that.

99300 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to nat, #95 of 1168 🔗

Erin Marie Olszewski is her name btw.

99415 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to Carlo, #96 of 1168 🔗

They mean Dr Cameron Kyle-Sidell.

98905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to mjr, 1, #97 of 1168 🔗

This one is a nurse from a Devon hospital speaking out anonymously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOIbqIRkD6w

98917 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to annie, 17, #98 of 1168 🔗

Mmm I think it is time for me to add my pennyworth.It is six months since I last attended a large doctors educational meeting. These are generally very agreeable and as well as some good lectures you do catch up on the local gossip. At the time in the MSM news we had three main stories; Idlib ( whatever happened there in the end ? ) , the Diamond Princess starring David and Sally Abel , and the Trump impeachment attempt . I do remember at the meeting with about 60 other doctors the Covid19 issue was never mentioned and ” lockdown ” belonged to repressive Chinese regimes.

My scepticism dates from this period as we already had the data from the Diamond Princess and also Iceland soon after. it was never going to be the Bubonic plague. The pantomine since then which has been media generated

There are quite a few medics who covertly add their contribution to the skeptics site and I thought the community psychiatrist ‘s from yesterday was a pleasure to read, There are some commentators who ask why aren’t the medical profession speaking out. From my conversations there are large numbers of us who are sceptical ( including nearly every surgeon ) but reluctant to ” go public ” .

The reason for keeping mum is fear. We all are in the public eye, there are websites with all our biographies and pictures . There are also sites called “rate my doctor ” and google review of surgeries. The mask fetischists and lockdown fanatics are to be found all over social media and any medic who questions the received opinion would soon feel the wrath of the martinets.

Anyway to end on a cheery note. I read today that even in New Zealand there are intelligent people who question lockdown and mandatory masks . The world will return to sanity.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12358696

98935 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #99 of 1168 🔗

A few months agoI would have felt understanding of this viewpoint. Now I just wish someone on the inside had the balls to stand up and tell it like it is, forego the comfortable consultant salary and put the poor sods who are literally dying because of this first.

99002 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Emma, 9, #100 of 1168 🔗

Would you really throw your career away if you had done years of training ?I suspect not .Three interesting medics to follow are Prof Karol Sikora , Prof Carl Heneghan and Dr Ron Daniels . They chip away at the hysterical media lies and are effective at combatting the narrative . All three cop a lot of abuse on social media.

99194 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #101 of 1168 🔗

Suspect away. I’m familiar with the specialists you mention of course, I just wish all doctors had the same integrity.

99305 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Peter Thompson, #102 of 1168 🔗

There are Ivor Cummings and Suneetra Gupta as well.

98670 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Panda, 2, #103 of 1168 🔗

The Italians are such an excitable people.

99308 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to richard riewer, #104 of 1168 🔗

Well half-Italian myself I wonder is Panda’s wife Italian by any chance??

98856 ▶▶▶▶▶ NappyFace, replying to Panda, 2, #105 of 1168 🔗

Thanks for the insight into an NHS professional’s true views.
Would be good if more of them made their views known.
Whatever is really going on at the moment, it’s terrifying.

98473 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Panda, 16, #106 of 1168 🔗

Modern medical practice cannot be a one disease only lane. There is always a trade off. It is shocking to hear your description .A disastrous response to the pandemic in all its aspects.

98484 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to swedenborg, 6, #107 of 1168 🔗

Absolutely agree. I’m also very very appreciative of hearing real life stories from the covid wards.

98574 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #108 of 1168 🔗

Not many stories coming out of empty wards, especially those co-opted from other departments.

98487 ▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to Panda, 17, #109 of 1168 🔗

Absolutely. Does anyone suspect that the innumerate Oxbridge PPE graduates in charge of the country are assuming that you can do nothing for 4 months, but not a problem because you can just do it twice as fast for 4 months afterwards and Bob’s your uncle.

You can see the realisation dawning in the cabinet room: “Cripes, you mean a service that runs at 98% capacity isn’t capable of running at twice its usual speed? But how can that be?”

98505 ▶▶▶▶ Panda, replying to Commander Jameson, 5, #110 of 1168 🔗

Ha! Absolutely spot on! They are throwing money at them to work overtime on extra lists, but it’s a bit like trying to stop the tide coming in.

98561 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Panda, 4, #111 of 1168 🔗

They commandeered my local Nuffield for the Covid, never used it, now being used for non Covid backlog work.

98586 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, 3, #112 of 1168 🔗

maybe they finally find a use for all the nightingale ward capacity which they never used… Can the government quickly train all the soon to be unemployed retail workers to be doctors ? That may be a government plan !!!!

98708 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 3, #113 of 1168 🔗

I had a look at my nightingale, style may not be important but it’s all held up with scaffolding and held together with sellotape.

98848 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 2, #114 of 1168 🔗

But they did promise us 40 new hospitals …..

98512 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Commander Jameson, 18, #115 of 1168 🔗

My wife is a senior nurse. There has been a scaling up of external (private agency) services to break the backlog. Yet the guidance on PPE is still idiotic.

It seems to be controlled by management rather than sense. She deals with aerosol generating procedures, of which for many years and with patients with various conditions, masks were not worn unless the specific procedure required it.

But now it’s like the past experience never happened.

The guidance is ramping down but not fast enough. The hose of money has been turned on for private agencies ( a lot of which are good). But the thinking seems to be throw as much money as possible at something. And this is when the national debt is now over 150% GDP.

Madness

98567 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mhcp, 8, #116 of 1168 🔗

My mum was a lifelong nurse who was delighted when nationalised in 1946 but became so disillusioned when the bean counters took over she retired early and spent 5 years ignoring ‘Return To Nursing’ begging letters.

98557 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Panda, 5, #117 of 1168 🔗

Same here in SW, some emergency oncology, clinical work eye ( but no in patients ), no orthopaedics or haematology etc. A&E still deserted.

98501 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Commander Jameson, 7, #118 of 1168 🔗

German children have to wear masks in school. All day. As young as 8.

Swings and roundabouts.

98508 ▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to stewart, 10, #119 of 1168 🔗

German healthcare providers are not subject to government diktat in quite the same way as the NHS. The schools are (and yes, the mask rules, differing in different parts of the country at different times, at different places in the school, are causing as much confusion in the UK).

As usual the problem is when government sticks its oar in.

98543 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Commander Jameson, 9, #120 of 1168 🔗

Have a friend whose 8 year old is masked all day in school. (Teachers can be unmasked so they can be heard, apparently). He is livid and desperate.

98535 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to stewart, 14, #121 of 1168 🔗

It depends where in Germany you live. Most countries are considering/mandating it for upper schools, and then not during lessons, as it does influence the intake of oxygen and the ability to concentrate.
Vey active parent organisation working against it, for example reporting head teachers for assault/causing actually bodily harm.

98852 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, 8, #122 of 1168 🔗

Child abuse!

98986 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, 1, #123 of 1168 🔗

Really? F Merkel!

98549 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Commander Jameson, 3, #124 of 1168 🔗

I know someone who goes for Dialysis 3 times a week so equally vulnerable. His treatment and routine have continued exactly as before except that he was once given a single mask, two months after lockdown.

98842 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Commander Jameson, 1, #125 of 1168 🔗

Protecting the National Covid Service.

98843 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Commander Jameson, #126 of 1168 🔗

That’s because we have the No Health Service!

99206 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Commander Jameson, 3, #127 of 1168 🔗

I have been appalled on so many levels by the spinelessness of our medics. They appear to have stood by while their profession & reputation has been trashed. Professionals need to be very careful when they lose trust. Teachers lost trust when they started going on strike in the 70s. Once you stop behaving like a professional you stop being treated like one. Doctors will never recover from abandoning their patients.

98457 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 5, #128 of 1168 🔗

That group of Zero Covid MPs should go to Madagascar to demand to know why it isn’t bubonic plague and the get Ferguson to tell them how to do it, he’s the expert after all.

98674 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, 7, #129 of 1168 🔗

We come into contact with all sort of viruses that we can’t even measure every day.
We are all germ carriers and the insides of our bodies are full of weird and wonderful stuff. Like the digestive tract.

98704 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, 1, #130 of 1168 🔗

Yes, about a fistfull as I happily informed someone years ago.

98705 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #131 of 1168 🔗

Should read “why it (Madagascar) isn’t bubonic plague free…”

98458 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 19, #132 of 1168 🔗

All Party Parliamentary Group Recommends a ‘Zero Covid’ Strategy

A bedwetting group of MPs, led by Liberal Democratic leadership hopeful Layla Moran

has urged the Government to commit to a ‘zero Covid’ strategy.

You cannot eradicate this virus. How difficult is out to understand?

98598 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, #133 of 1168 🔗

Apparently it doesn’t even mean eradication:

https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1290959396642656257

People misunderstand Zero COVID/elimination strategy -> it’s about stopping community transmission within borders & quickly identifying imported clusters to keep numbers low. Less virus = more normality.

Zero Covid actually means “some covid”, or, as I would normally call it, “endemic covid”, or “herd immunity”. It turns out Devi has been agreeing with me all along. We’re just arguing over semantics.

98607 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 6, #134 of 1168 🔗

So they call it “ Zero COVID/elimination strategy “, but it doesn’t involve elimination or zero? Are these people willfully perverse?

Seems more plausible they got ridiculed and are now backtracking frantically, but to check you’d have to plough through too much of their turgid nonsense.

98617 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 15, #135 of 1168 🔗

Yes. It’s Stalinism at its most cynical. It reminds me of Zero Carbon. This gives me an idea. How about Covid Credits? The rich could pay the poor to be locked up and wear masks and this could generate wealth for everyone. What could possibly go wrong?

98646 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 3, #136 of 1168 🔗

LOL! I’d love to see the Labour and LibDem parties turning intellectual and moral somersaults on that one

98625 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to guy153, 12, #137 of 1168 🔗

“When I use a word ,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “ it means just what I choose it to mean —neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice , “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master— that’s all.”

98796 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Victoria, 8, #138 of 1168 🔗

The team of Bill Gates funded witchdoctors “advising” Her Majesty’s Dictatorship, understand perfectly well that you cannot “eradicate” a virus. However, their Pharma bought-and-paid-for careers, and their forthcoming gigantic backhanders from the Gates Foundation provide the reason for them deliberately pretending to not understand elementary microbiology. As for HM Dictatorship itself, Boris and the other puppets have no option but to go along with Agenda 2030, as demanded by their globalist Overlords. The strategy for this Agenda requires the usual abandonment of reality e.g. there are now 57 genders and a specific virus can now be completely eradicated. Oh, and Elvis is still alive on Mars.

98861 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 4, #139 of 1168 🔗

They can’t understand because they’re idiots and lack even basic common sense. How they got into Parliament is a bleeding mystery although they’ve had their share of imbeciles, morons and idiots for the last 800 years!

Layla Moran is a Class A idiot who should be held up as an example to all young girls and women that they should NOT be like her.

99072 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Victoria, 3, #140 of 1168 🔗

This group of tossers should be eradicated

98466 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 56, #141 of 1168 🔗

I no longer consider myself British.

I now have no affiliation with the country that my parents and grand parents literally fought for

In one week in March we became Nazi Germany in the 1930’s. This is a wrong that can never be righted

I no longer consider I have an obligation to obey any of the laws of the land.

I feel no obligation to contribute to this country in any way

98479 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cecil B, 48, #142 of 1168 🔗

I consider myself British. I don’t consider those who have implemented these rules or who acquiesce to these rules as British. I consider it the duty of all British people to resist, disobey and right the wrongs forced upon us.

98499 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Cecil B, 20, #143 of 1168 🔗

Jeanette Rankin was a Representative in the US Congress. She is famous as twice have voted against US wars (World War 1 and World War 2).In the World War 1 she had 50 more on her stand but after the Pearl Harbour attack she was the only one voting against Roosevelt’s war declaration.
But in UK 2020 not a single one voted against the Corona Act. I thought the British would have at least a few mavericks around and vote against. No. The Reichstag parallel must be a national embarrassment.

98506 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cecil B, 18, #144 of 1168 🔗

Well, I do consider myself British: it is just that Britain no longer exists. Quite a paradox!

98532 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to IanE, 28, #145 of 1168 🔗

Britain exists here – on Lockdown Sceptics! I regard this site as our green and pleasant land, while we are in temporary exile.

98542 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #146 of 1168 🔗

Hear, hear. True Britain has gone underground.
TEMPORARILY.
We’ll be back.

99840 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, #147 of 1168 🔗

How?

98686 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mr Dee, #148 of 1168 🔗
99053 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to richard riewer, #149 of 1168 🔗

Was on the school syllabus back in the day, no longer I fear.

99316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DressageRider, #150 of 1168 🔗

Great poem.

98519 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cecil B, 24, #151 of 1168 🔗

We are still British,it’s just that we have become political dissidents through no fault of our own.We have been subject to a coup and if the government gets its extension of 2 years in September,then its goodbye to the Britain that we knew.

98529 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #152 of 1168 🔗

Could you point me to details on the extension, if you can, please? I need to write to my MP about it, and need to be armed with the facts – I’ve tried searching on t’Internet, but to no avail.

98595 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #153 of 1168 🔗

I think it is to do with whoever is organising the protest in London next week. It was a claim on their flyer. Others have picked up on it and run with it, myself included. But other than that, I can find nothing.

98754 ▶▶▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #154 of 1168 🔗

I first read it in regards to one of the reasons as to why the Simon Dolan’s case was dismissed but I think is embedded in the Corona Act 2020 section 98 ‘Six month parliamentary review’ (I’m no lawyer)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/section/98

98556 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cecil B, 4, #155 of 1168 🔗

Unfortunately, every country is just as bad or worse. Every country bar Sweden, Belarus and perhaps one or two others we don’t know about are committed to this insanity of eliminating COVID by any means and at whatever cost.

99309 ▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to stewart, #156 of 1168 🔗

Some US states as well plus there are many other countries not going so crazy.
But yes many are are quite a bit worse.

99844 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to stewart, #157 of 1168 🔗

They think that eliminating the people will get of the coronavirus. You know, it might just work.

99133 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, #158 of 1168 🔗

That’s a tad bleak Cecil. Britain isn’t just the current crazed loons in government. Many people have been opposed to them from Day 1.

“The King and the Land are one !”.

98475 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 11, #159 of 1168 🔗

I work in a cafe, and sometimes have a -short – opportunity to talk with customers about C. I try to avoid it to not bring the mood down. I always point out that we are recording positive PCR tests, not illnesses. Most people do not have a clue what the difference is, and sadly there is not enough time or inclination to get educated (by me).
As well, as most of my information is from German sources (my home country), i sometimes lack the vocabulary, so I look forward to get the english version of Sucharit Bhakdi’s book, Corona Fehlalarm, in September. Although I still need to find a non Amazon distributor.

98697 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Silke David, #160 of 1168 🔗

Ask Toby Young or James Delingpole if they can give you some names.

98480 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 32, #161 of 1168 🔗

Just back from the Costcutter/Post Office on the corner. About half a dozen customers, 3 staff, and absolutely not a mask in sight! Big smile from the lady behind the Post Office counter. Ha! In your face, SAGE people

98526 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 19, #162 of 1168 🔗

100% maskless in my convenience store,
Chicken or egg? Do the mask averse drift there or the locals unmasking?

98923 ▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to karenovirus, 5, #163 of 1168 🔗

I saw one maskless person in the Co-op today, but none in Waitrose (Oxfordshire). I actually think that it’s the wealthier and more highly educated people who are complying the most. I only have one A-level, and only just….

99010 ▶▶▶ Kathryn, replying to karenovirus, 5, #164 of 1168 🔗

Yes, same here in our local convenience store/post office. No masks, or social distancing, been a haven of normality (mostly) for months thank goodness.

98482 stewart, replying to stewart, 41, #165 of 1168 🔗

More lockdowns.

The government’s malice and stupidity is relentless.

THE VIRUS ISN”T ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS AND IT CAN’T BE CONTROLLED.

When the hell are these people going to get these two crushingly obvious facts into their thick skulls?

It’s like the politicians and generals in the first world war continuing to throw body after body at enemy guns when the tactic had long been shown to be pointless.

The cretins just won’t admit they got it wrong and other people’s lives just don’t matter enough to them.

98493 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to stewart, 26, #166 of 1168 🔗

If they admit it was wrong then the full financial impact will be on them. And no-one wants that. This is the problem. As long as you can fight an imaginary foe and have people convince themselves that mandated mask wearing and the like are fine then the misdirection can continue.

Just don’t forget.

98530 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to mhcp, 9, #167 of 1168 🔗

Not just financial, also the deaths caused by lockdown.

Interesting point about the zero covid story was that the vaccine is no longer being presented as the light at the end of the tunnel, even though that did seem like the logical end of the narrative. Maybe they have realised the politics of that may be more difficult than hoped.

98560 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Ovis, 14, #168 of 1168 🔗

They know the vaccine isn’t coming any time soon.
WHO announced yesterday they hoped this crisis would be over within 2 years.
Boris Johnson is looking to get a 2 year extension of his COVID laws.
Pharma needs more time…

98585 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to mhcp, 7, #169 of 1168 🔗

The government also have a sniff of a chance of convincing the utterly credulous that they are responsible for stopping the “second wave”. It would necessitate even more damage to the economy and our health systems but when the country is already so deep in the mire what is another 50 billion on the national debt, or another 30000 collateral deaths.

99166 ▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Will, 4, #170 of 1168 🔗

I think that is exactly what they are doing. Realising that they totally messed up, the idea is to portray themselves as ‘saviours’ by preventing the mythical ‘second wave’. They are also trying to ferment discord by blaming those who ‘didn’t comply’ as being the cause of the problem. I find it all disgraceful and unforgivable.

98701 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to mhcp, 3, #171 of 1168 🔗

Stop giving them excuses. They don’t deserve any. None.

98539 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 10, #172 of 1168 🔗

I posted yesterday about a chat with a long term music events promoter. I expressed doubts about the speedy arrival of an effective and safe vaccine.

He told me that his industry was in close talks with the government who insist that such a vaccine is nearly with us.
“I hope so or my industry is dead”
I replied ‘you should tell the government that a mosh pit is the ideal way to create herd immunity and so help the vulnerable long term.’

Nice chap but living wishful thinking.

99007 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, 1, #173 of 1168 🔗

They are swatting at invisible flies.

98496 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 20, #174 of 1168 🔗

Rachel Johnson’s article is fantastic, except for a slightly sour note at the end where she undermines her earlier enthusiasm for “adventure”.

By his mid-twenties, her father had “taken an iron-ore carrier to Brazil, ridden a motorbike from Oxford to Afghanistan”, but apparently Brexit is going to deny her children such opportunities – which is odd, seeing as her father’s escapades all took place before we joined the EU.

Post-Brexit, her kids might have to fill in a form before travelling through Europe or something, so clearly it’s now out of the question.

She also says she would block Toby Young on twitter, but I am pretty sure he wouldn’t block her. Why can’t these people be nice?

98517 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #175 of 1168 🔗

I didn’t fill in any forms when travelling widely through Europe pre Common Market except for the Socialist Republics and they only did it make sure they got my hard currency.
The only time you saw a queue at Passport Control was when a coachload of school kids all wanted their passports stamped.

98706 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, 2, #176 of 1168 🔗

I remember Nothing to Declare and Freddy Laker.

98550 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #177 of 1168 🔗

Amusing contrast between the idiocy about brexit supposedly meaning people can’t do things they did before the EU existed (well highlighted, by the way) and the intelligent approach to the safety obsession problem we have.

This latter attitude is one I would have hoped was part of Johnson familial culture and would be Boris Johnson’s core approach as well, before he was faced with the decision and went the other way.

I still suspect he knows on some level that he panicked and failed his country, and just can’t see a way out of it that doesn’t involve admitting the truth.

Hopefully it grinds his conscience for the rest of his days, as I hope Blair’s lies do his.

98863 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #178 of 1168 🔗

Yes, Blair definitely looks to me like a man who has trouble sleeping at night, as opposed to, say, a smug, self satisfied egotist with a messiah complex and no sense of remorse.

99043 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 3, #179 of 1168 🔗

Hope springs eternal. On the one hand, your latter description does seem apt. On the other, I have seen him looking pretty haggard at times.

98507 Ovis, 11, #180 of 1168 🔗

Does Ms Moran now support the only migration policy consistent with zero covid?

98511 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 8, #181 of 1168 🔗

Can someone point out a politician or journalist who actually understands what R means?
How it is arrived at, what is its significance and how easy is it to make it up to suit your agenda. A statistic plucked out of someone’s Rsole.

99380 ▶▶ Lorenzo Basso, replying to karenovirus, 1, #182 of 1168 🔗

If the R number has been dangerously above 1 all this time, why has the proportion of positive tests been steadily decreasing this entire time? Another dodgy computer model? I can scarcely contain my shock!

98513 Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 12, #183 of 1168 🔗

Another depressing shopping trip this morning, although the sunny and windy weather on my bike ride into town woke (in the proper sense…) me up well and truly. I went in Waitrose and the Co-op and still can’t believe how many people are complying and wearing masks. I saw just one person in the Co-op not wearing one. The assistant at the till was masked, face-shielded and was wearing gloves!! I had a job to hear what he said.

We live in a hamlet in Oxfordshire, and after I got home, with the sun shining and the wind blowing and the back door and windows open, a lady I know who used to live in the neighbouring village, came to said back door and asked if I was still doing sewing jobs (I am). I couldn’t believe she was standing there in the sunshine wearing a mask, and also was clearly keeping her distance from me. Sadly she told me her husband has got cancer, so perhaps she has some strange idea that she must be super duper careful, but I thought that actually for her own health she would have been better off breathing in the fresh air of today than being muzzled.

Oh, and this is well worth watching – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHi6qccp0aY

98518 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 5, #184 of 1168 🔗

The link is a nurse in a Devon hospital speaking out about Covid, how wearing masks can make you feel ill, and the empty beds etc.

98869 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #185 of 1168 🔗

Thanks for the link, currently listening

98520 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 2, #186 of 1168 🔗

Thanks for posting the link to the video. the channel is a new one for me.

98527 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 30, #187 of 1168 🔗

If someone in a mask tries to talk to you, always – always! – ask them to remove it, claiming you cannot understand them. If they refuse, cut off the conversation.

It’s these little bits of resistance and non-compliance that we need to start utilising now.

98545 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 11, #188 of 1168 🔗

Mr Dee, you talk plenty sense, keep on posting!

98716 ▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to Mr Dee, 9, #189 of 1168 🔗

When I’m in the supermarket I always talk to as many masks as possible. I smile and do all the small talk and chit-chat that I always did as it is they that have changed, not me

99333 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #190 of 1168 🔗

Matches exactly what I know to be the situation in my local main hospital.

This brave nurse might have added that they were not required to wear masks all day long until the government made that decision, without consulting the NHS, 2 months after the danger, such as it was, had passed.

98514 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 16, #191 of 1168 🔗

Masks as articles of faith.

I’ve been looking at articles and Tweets by Prof Trish Greenhalgh (referenced by Swedenborg yesterday as a prominent ‘masker’). There is a trail of argument and counter-argument ** between her and Carl Heneghan, and her and Graham Martin, and it seems to me that the science is ambivalent.

It comes down to a school playground ‘whose side are you on?   I do
not choose the side of TG, who proudly boasts a BLM hashtag on her Twitter name,
and seems strident and unlikely to brook dissent.

There is now an article in BMJ by one of her acolytes, Helene-Mari van der Westhuizen, which says in brief that we should move away from medical arguments and focus on making mask-wearing the cultural norm.
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3021

For a policy of public masking to succeed, negative depictions of
the social meaning and moral worth of face coverings need to be actively
reframed. Given that the main purpose of face coverings by the public is source
control, wearers could be depicted as altruistic or even as protectors. This
could create new symbolism around wearing, making, and distributing face
coverings that is based on social responsibility and solidarity against a
common threat”

This is a becoming a matter of rival faiths;
I fear that we non-maskers are in a significant minority and at risk of
religious persecution.

**Too many references to list here, but I will try in a separate post below

98570 ▶▶ annie, replying to BTLnewbie, 19, #193 of 1168 🔗

Like burkas. A symbol of oppression.

98584 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 7, #194 of 1168 🔗

It is almost funny how so many politicians hated and wanted to suppress the wearing of burkas before they hit on this great way to shut everyone up! MW

98713 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 6, #195 of 1168 🔗

All the Quebec political parties were ranting and raving abouit face coverings 6, 7 years ago. They even wanted to ban people wearing sunglasses from using bus transport.

98715 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 9, #196 of 1168 🔗

How many feminists who were screaming about the subjugation of Muslim women are now pro mask?

98810 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 8, #197 of 1168 🔗

Objectifying, dehumanising

98580 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to BTLnewbie, 17, #198 of 1168 🔗

I do not agree that this is ‘playground’ stuff. We’re not talking about two arguments of equal merit and there is far too much at stake. Professor Greenhalgh and her students are participating in and perpetuating a nasty government psy-op that is keeping those they have brainwashed in masks, not for their health but to keep them compliant and fearful. Professor Heneghan is almost a lone voice trying to inject sanity into a sea of propaganda.

It does not help that Johnson recently announced the fake news that not wearing a mask carries a £3200 fine. It’s another clever psy-op because the fine is still £100, reducing to £50 if you pay up. The fine would double for ‘repeat offences’ up to the maximum. Of course, nobody needs to be fined in the first place if they have 2 brain cells to rub together and reports are that very few actually have been.

I agree that masks are a symbol of a cult but we shouldn’t fall into the trap of becoming victims. We are currently in a minority but we keep fighting. MW

98714 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #199 of 1168 🔗

I think we discussed this before, MW; the plebs now really think you get fined £3200 for not wearing a mask. Just like you need a doctor’s note for exemption and ‘common law wife’ is a real thing.

98729 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #200 of 1168 🔗

Yes, I’m sure it has been mentioned before but I thought it worth repeating for anyone new who’s not aware. We have now met a few people who have been feared by the big fine into mask compliance. Your other examples are good by the way! MW

98679 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to BTLnewbie, 9, #201 of 1168 🔗

This “social conformity” aspect of mask wearing has been discussed right from the start, I remember a BBC article (this was back when I could bear to read the BBC) about why some countries have a history of mask-wearing during epidemics and Westerners don’t.

I was unconvinced by the effectiveness of masks anyway (knowing how small viruses are) but reading this sort of paternalistic “the little people ought to be persuaded what’s best for them” BS totally and irrevocably convinced me that I would never wear one, as a matter of principle.

98741 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Drawde927, 4, #202 of 1168 🔗

The new site Toby links to, Questioning Covid, seems pretty good. My eye was caught by this article:

https://kellybroganmd.com/masks-have-you-been-captured-by-this-psyop/

Someone was questioning the provenance of the site earlier on this thread. It appears to be a platform for dissident views. I doubt it gets much funding from ‘Pearly’. MW

98710 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #203 of 1168 🔗

The Quebec government has already initiated this approach and are now putting up posters around the streets of Montreal showing proud Mask Wearers, full of Solidarity, Respect, Conviction and Courage. And we’re paying for them.

98772 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to richard riewer, 7, #204 of 1168 🔗

It’s all very sinister. Someone posted on here yesterday about a TV ad in UK showing masked families, with voiceover – “This is not a mask, it is a sign of solidarity” and so on.

98816 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lucky, 5, #205 of 1168 🔗

More shared vocabulary. Internationally co-ordinated psy-op.

98775 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to BTLnewbie, 7, #206 of 1168 🔗

Makes me want to vomit. You know an argument is on thin ground when you can’t convince people based on logic/rationality and must resort to virtue-signalling and shaming those who don’t comply.

99216 ▶▶ NickR, replying to BTLnewbie, #207 of 1168 🔗

We help a Syrian family to learn English & assimilate. The father told me that with all the masks he felt almost at home. He also commented on how English people all followed the government rules & seemed scared. I wasn’t quite sure if he was joking or not?

98523 Proudtobeapeasant, 6, #208 of 1168 🔗

I have totally gone off Radio 4, but will get off here now and go and listen to Toby!

98525 JulieR, replying to JulieR, 23, #209 of 1168 🔗

I am sitting on a plane in Luton airport. I went through security and boarding without a mask. Nobody said anything about it.
Everyone was wearing masks except in cafes. Virus is avoiding cafes.
I was asked to put mask on on the plane but it is on my chin. Nobody cares.

98548 ▶▶ annie, replying to JulieR, 3, #210 of 1168 🔗

Have a good trip! Get a good tan on your chin!

98565 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to JulieR, 1, #211 of 1168 🔗

Same at Bristol, but then mask Karen flight attendant policed it like a hawk on the easyJet flight!

98918 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Youth_Unheard, 6, #212 of 1168 🔗

The flight wasn’t too bad as I took the mask off after a few minutes having it on my chin until we landed. The crew couldn’t care less.
Passengers were taking their masks off for food and drink so nobody cared about anyone’s masks.

98634 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to JulieR, 2, #213 of 1168 🔗

Use it as an eye mask to help you doze off, if it’s a long flight.

98784 ▶▶ Richard, replying to JulieR, 11, #214 of 1168 🔗

Update from Norfolk coast ! Compliance still too high but interestingly the tone of a lot of the signs in shop windows has changed a lot – from screaming “no mask no entry” to please wear a mask but we know there are medical exceptions (often taking a couple of goes to get there). Local farm shop today none the staff masked – number of customers allowed into shop has doubled and worker on the till couldn’t have been friendlier. Just a guess but suspect they have all seen the reduction in footfall / trade since introduction and are now trying to soften message to get people in. Maybe the odd sceptic has got to them too.

98829 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to JulieR, #215 of 1168 🔗

You rock Julie!!

98528 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 3, #216 of 1168 🔗

Interview with Mr Bhakdi. https://youtu.be/u0cIaQwAw2A
Sucharit Bhakdi über COVID-19 Impfung und Immunität – Untersuchungsausschuß ACU-www.acu2020.org 2

https://yt3.ggpht.com/a/AATXAJx_tfVH36FhTovH0ZoQRo9eGOQ5zTIQzvu54WSy=s88-c-k-c0xffffffff-no-rj-mo
Prof. Dr. med. Sucharit Bhakdi

Warum sind über 80% der nordeuropäischen Bevölkerung von vorn herein gegen SARS-CoV-2 ausreichend geschützt? Menschen unter 65 Jahre sind zu über 99% immun. Eine Impfung birgt für sie ausschließlich Risiken und keinen Nutzen. Gen-basierte Impfstoffe sind für alle Menschen brandgefährlich.

Es handelt sich hier um ein Interview für den Außerparlamentarischen Corona Untersuchungsausschuss (ACU), dem ich angeboten habe, als Sachverständiger zur Verfügung zu stehen. Es ist ein Re-Upload von der Originalquelle: Außerparlamentarischer Corona Untersuchungsausschuss (ACU) https://acu2020.org/hearings/

Die Aktualisierung der Buches “Corona: Fehlalarm?” zum Thema Immunität/Impfung ist in der neuen englischen Version erhalten, welches auch zusätzliche Quellenangaben und noch mehr Details enthält. In der deutschen Version wird dieses Kapitel in der nächsten Auflage aktualisiert.Die Zusammenfassung der Themen Immunität und Impfung wird demnächst auch auf der Homepage unseres Buchverlages Goldegg kostenlos als pdf zum download bereitgestellt werden.

98597 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Silke David, 4, #217 of 1168 🔗

Google translation (please do feel free to improve any dodgy aspects of the machine translation):

Why are over 80% of the Northern European population sufficiently protected against SARS-CoV-2 from the start? People under the age of 65 are over 99% immune. Vaccination bears only risks and no benefits for them. Gene-based vaccines are extremely dangerous to everyone.

This is an interview for the Extra-Parliamentary Corona Investigation Committee (ACU), to which I have offered to be available as an expert. It is a re-upload from the original source: Extra-parliamentary Corona Investigation Committee (ACU) https://acu2020.org/hearings/

The update of the book “Corona: False Alarm?” on the subject of immunity / vaccination is available in the new English version, which also contains additional sources and even more details. In the German version, this chapter will be updated in the next edition. The summary of the topics of immunity and vaccination will soon be available as a free PDF download on the homepage of our book publisher Goldegg .”

98531 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 18, #218 of 1168 🔗

NHS data shows in the UK about 300 people under 60 with no known medical conditions have died with/from covid19.

Statistics on reported road casualties in Great Britain for the year ending June 2019 shows there were: 1,870 reported road deaths.

So, if my maths is right, an under 60 healthy person in the UK is SIX TIMES MORE likely to die in a road collision than from covid 19

98547 ▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 10, #219 of 1168 🔗

Let’s push a few swerving zombies under buses and help keep the
statistics favourable.

98612 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 5, #220 of 1168 🔗

No need to push. In my experience, they seem perfectly happy to jump.

98644 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 6, #221 of 1168 🔗

One swerved towards my car, as I was leaving Chester about 40 minutes ago, swaying onto the road to avoid a group of pedestrians in front him. I played chicken with him. It was his choice between me and the Covids, and I won.

99025 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 3, #222 of 1168 🔗

Earlier this summer one woman panicked when she saw me and swerved into the bicycle path to avoid me just when a bus turned the corner. Three seconds later and she would have had a far worse shock. I was sitting down on a concrete step at the time, drinking espresso laced with O’Casey’s Irish Cream and listening to Wes Montgomery and Jimmy playing ‘Night Train’.

98712 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Major Panic, 3, #223 of 1168 🔗

I was just looking at those figures earlier. It’s an average of 5 deaths per day, plus 70 ‘serious injuries’ per day. So, they are more worried about catching a bad cold than getting a real injury or maybe losing a limb.

98538 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #224 of 1168 🔗

Sent my FOI request answers about PCR tests to the City Mayors/Councils of Oldham, Leicester, Birmingham, Walsall, Manchester and Aberdeen.

Not one reply so they are all playing along with the game no matter what the “mayor” says.

I even called the leader of Walsall’s appearance on Central News an embarrassment to the council.

No answer about the open letter to Boris Johnson nor from the Parliamentary Committee on Health and Social care.

No answer from WTTC, FSB, Trentham Estates, Cunard/Carnival, BBPA, Fox, Sky Australia, the newsaccess or OFCOM, ITV, BBC, Sky News with official complaints etc so no-one gives a flying fuck they are being suckered.

I think they are all part of it now.

Toby was sidelined and basically ignored yesterday, no surprise there.

98721 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, #225 of 1168 🔗

Not even our Universe is forever.

99221 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Awkward Git, #226 of 1168 🔗

I thought the Oldham council leader was very sound in an interview this morning. He said testing had gone up!

99332 ▶▶ adele, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #227 of 1168 🔗

It’s driving me mad that no one is being held to account over any of this.

98541 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 6, #228 of 1168 🔗

Oh boy here we go with another ‘expert’ keeping the doom and gloom going
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8653639/Covid-present-FOREVER-warns-SAGE-scientist.html

Comments section impressive though

98571 ▶▶ annie, replying to Eddie, 12, #229 of 1168 🔗

Piles and piles of likes for sceptical comments – more than 1000 in one instance.

98778 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 13, #230 of 1168 🔗

I like this one:

Tony Benn once said always ask this when dealing with people in a position of power. “What power have you got. Where did you get it? In whose interests does it serve? To whom are you accountable? And how do we get rid of you?”

98790 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #231 of 1168 🔗

I think he gave the example of Bill Gates in that quote . How can we get rid of him?

98802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nat, 5, #232 of 1168 🔗

Know any snipers?

98838 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #233 of 1168 🔗

heh heh !

98575 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Eddie, 13, #234 of 1168 🔗

These pseudo-scientific twats are undermining their own case. If Covid wee to be ever-present, then we need to shrug our shoulders at this mild disease and just get on with life without wasting time with pie-in-the-sky vaccines that aren’t merited by such an infection.

98594 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 8, #235 of 1168 🔗

Indeed. There’s a kind of intellectual momentum that carries these people forward with one obsessive focus, to pile idiocy upon foolishness, even as the facts change to make it openly absurd (or in this case, even more patently absurd than it always was).

“When the facts change, I change my opinion” is all too rare an approach.

98631 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Mark, 4, #236 of 1168 🔗

I know, right? There’s no shame in it….”what? Well this new information changes EVERYTHING!” Is an understandable reaction.

It’s a travesty when people become wedded to an idea contrary to all emerging evidence. You see it often enough with the police, determined to prove people guilty, and now with politicians….but it should never happen with scientists.

98642 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sophie123, 4, #237 of 1168 🔗

Turns out scientists are human beings too…

But as you suggest, it’s kind of against the fundamentals of science in a way that it isn’t for other areas. It really is worse for supposed scientists to be that way, surely?

98862 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Mark, 5, #238 of 1168 🔗

Here’s the problem: science has been hijacked by big business and politics.

It’s the new system of “religious” control. Just as the Church hijacked the beautiful teachings of Yeshua ben-Yosef, bastardised them, and thereby built itself an empire of wealth and power, so has the scientific method been kidnapped by those who seek profit and control.

In generations gone by, “what the priest says” or “what the Pope says” was taken as unchallengeable Truth.

Now the same tactics are used when “science says” whatever Big Business or Big Government wants it to say in order to fleece our hard-earned income or remove our civil rights.

In this scamdemic, I have ONLY trusted the findings of independent scientists. Any scientist in the pockets of Big Pharma, Big Tech and especially the Gates Foundation, is bought and paid for and NOT to be believed without doing your due diligence. These people ultimately work for a clique of multibillionaire shysters who either want to make money off all us mugs, or take away our freedom.

99200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Mark, #239 of 1168 🔗

Nah, climate science has been doing it for 30 years or more, it’s the norm now – concensus dontcha know (= groupthink = fr**d)

99252 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Mark, 1, #240 of 1168 🔗

” Science ” can never be as objective as it wants you to believe, it will always be a mess of subjective bias..

98764 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Eddie, 3, #241 of 1168 🔗

‘This is a virus that is going to be with us forever in some form or another and almost certainly will require repeated vaccinations,’ he said.
‘So, a bit like flu, people will need re-vaccination at regular intervals.’
The scientist also warned that it is ‘possible’ the virus will get ‘out of control’ again, but said more targeted measures can now be used instead of a generic lockdown.

GRRRR!

98874 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #242 of 1168 🔗

No, people do not “need” re-vaccination at regular intervals – the Pharma industry “needs” to sell us their product at regular intervals.

We already have a flu vaccine. In 2017-18 we had 50,000+ excess UK deaths, attributed to flu. In a population where most people get the flu jab. Wow. Impressive. The wonders of “science”.

Perhaps what people really “need” is to get their vitamin D levels optimised, get out in the sunshine, breathe fresh air, and stop eating junk food.

Not a profitable line of advice, unfortunately.

98919 ▶▶ annie, replying to Eddie, 3, #243 of 1168 🔗

SAGE numpty says Covid is here for ever.
MPs and Krankie say Covid must be eliminated.
Impasse.

98544 PWL, 15, #244 of 1168 🔗

“Residents in those areas are not allowed to socialise with anyone from outside their household, as of midnight tonight.”

Utter tosh. I wouldn’t be told what I can or can’t do if I were those residents. In fact, I would organise gatherings of big males in anticipation of the police sticking their Nazi noses in.

A twitter encounter with a zealot from the cult at the forefront of tyrannising the country (an equivalent of the Nazi SS)

98551 sam, replying to sam, 12, #245 of 1168 🔗

there is a big rally on sat 29 aug in Trafalgar Square as part of an international protest
Piers Corbyn will be speaking and Dolores Cahill amongst others

98726 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to sam, 1, #246 of 1168 🔗

Invite standup comics as well.

98552 nat, replying to nat, 5, #247 of 1168 🔗

I have been looking at Questioning Covid , the new international website for sceptics, posted in today’s roundup. It has a large collection of video testimonials from doctors, nurses and other health experts and whistleblowers. I have seen many of them but to see them all in one place is very powerful. A great place to send those who are starting to question …

98577 ▶▶ stewart, replying to nat, #248 of 1168 🔗

How did you tag the link so it opens in a new window?

98589 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to stewart, #249 of 1168 🔗

I just cut and pasted it from the round up above.

98655 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to stewart, 1, #250 of 1168 🔗

Right click on it and select ‘open in new tab’. MW

98760 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, #251 of 1168 🔗

For Windows? Right click the link and you have a menu. The top option is to open the link in a new tab.

98587 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to nat, 1, #252 of 1168 🔗

It does seem to have some interesting material (although not much there yet), but I question characterising it as “international”. All the links I’ve opened have been to videos by Americans. For those who aren’t familiar with it, OSHA stands for Occupational Safety and Health Administration, part of the US federal government. American is not the world.

98590 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, #253 of 1168 🔗

Oh, apologies if any of the speakers are Canadian, but I checked most of the links and the speakers I followed up on are American.

98681 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to ConstantBees, #254 of 1168 🔗

Okay I was being lazy -I just cut and pasted Toby’s description of the website.

98761 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #255 of 1168 🔗

Maybe because it’s new and starting to grow?

98608 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to nat, #256 of 1168 🔗

Lots of interesting videos but nowhere does it say who runs this site.

98690 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Polemon2, 3, #257 of 1168 🔗

That’s true. I wonder if it is supposed to be anonymous ? I know in Melbourne two lockdown protest organisers were arrested before the event and charged with incitement. There is a huge effort worldwide to quash dissent.

98752 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to nat, 2, #258 of 1168 🔗

Fantastic! Thanks! Another link to add to my growing library.

98554 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #259 of 1168 🔗

Guess where Layla Moran “studied” mathematics before coming an MP?

You got it: Imperial College London. No link to our favourite billionaire there then is there? Also Brunel University which is linked to Bill Gates in 2013.

Dad worked for the EU his whole life.

From what I can tell she’s never had a job except teaching physics for a few years she never meant to do from what I can tell in this interview:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/17-from-17-layla-moran-on-her-anarchism-and-the-demise-of-british-politics_uk_5a142720e4b0c335e99742ac?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAA1YueMXfh1TI5JUflqs9ZEbpf5TgKRk09wrDPItXbmYERd0pY2BmtXl8HJsYZuf4UVMwxuFF4R–J6BQmJAO3p3tffD2-9SOxEeKcwWdIO34mz3uxMJHVXijFtjNSJleo7tw9Qmy5v6QrsksNwB8AKc90SlDnwCv4iNfA_Z3mh5 .

98559 ▶▶ nat, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #260 of 1168 🔗

Yeah, Bill Gates donated $79 million to Imperial College this year – it’s done a lot to improve the quality of our lives hasn’t it ?

98609 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #261 of 1168 🔗

Hey I studied at Imperial and I’m a sceptic. Back in the day, they did train us to be proper scientists. Open minded, analysing the data and constantly questioning.

I am not sure when it all went wrong. I graduated over 25 years ago.

98804 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sophie123, 4, #262 of 1168 🔗

I think ICL as an institution will rue the day it took the Gates vaccine shilling in much the same way as neighbour LSE did for the Gaddafi shilling. Some great people and departments at both, but the senior management team just a little too fond of money!

98944 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #263 of 1168 🔗

They made a pact with the devil and I think they’re credibility is shot.

Defund Imperial College!

99233 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #264 of 1168 🔗

Moles are no longer a problem of the secret service. Now they’re everywhere.

98555 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #265 of 1168 🔗

Just listening to TalkRADIO, I do not know who the presenter is but the guest is Robert Rinder of “Judge Rinder” TV show? who apparently had cv19 early on in the pandemic.
These are not exact words he said that the illness was not nice, but you would not wish it on your worst enemy, but the media talking up the death rate every day was worst than the illness.

He then went on to say that “anti-vaxers” are dangerous.

98572 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #266 of 1168 🔗

Yep, judge rinder. The ‘influencers’ are starting to come out of the woodwork.

98558 Hannahbanana, replying to Hannahbanana, 20, #267 of 1168 🔗

My grandma is still yet to be given any clear treatment or care plan for the pancreatic cancer diagnosis she received 1 month ago.

The diagnosis came off the back of some scans and tests done when she self-admitted to A&E 2 months ago, feeling extremely unwell.

She had in fact been feeling unwell for months, deterred from seeking medical attention to ‘protect the NHS’. My grandfather and Aunty finally forced her to go.

She wants to visit family in Japan (and have the holiday that was stolen from her in March) but this will mean that any chance of chemo cannot begin until late October due to the 2 weeks of quarantine she will have to have, both when she arrives there and when she comes back.

I don’t know how different things would be if things had been picked up sooner without the ‘crisis’, we never will.

I have tried to wake her up so she can live a little in the short time she has left instead of cowering in isolation, but she is too brainwashed to see that. It is heartbreaking.

98576 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hannahbanana, 20, #268 of 1168 🔗

From an old Dr Who story I read as a child:

‘There is no dishonour in dying, but there is a terrible shame in giving up life.’

98604 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to annie, 1, #269 of 1168 🔗

Yes – a good quotation as an indictment of our present society.

98616 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to annie, 4, #270 of 1168 🔗

A thousand thumbs up from me. Exactly how I feel

98703 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Hannahbanana, 1, #271 of 1168 🔗

Sorry to hear about your grandma. Is she Japanese? As far as I’m aware they are not letting any foreigners into the country at the moment. How is she getting around that?

98562 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #272 of 1168 🔗

The links to useful resources which are posted on here need a permanent location, perhaps I brief description and the link, so that these very useful references can be referred back to without having to search past LS pages.

Maybe in the forum, or on a separate blog or web page?

98591 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #273 of 1168 🔗

Someone needs to step up and volunteer to do the cataloguing. Perhaps you, DoubtingDave, since you’ve mentioned the need?

98620 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #274 of 1168 🔗

Posting from an Android I am very selective when clicking links as the return normally takes me back to Toby’s page and I have to work my way to back where I started.

98756 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, #275 of 1168 🔗

If you post a useful resource here, you should also post it in the forums so it can easily be found.

98776 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #276 of 1168 🔗

This seems like a really good moment to mention that when I have donated to this site I’ve always had a personal message from Toby (sent from an iPhone, so presumably his own) which suggests to me that they run this site on a shoestring so just a hint to anyone considering it, I’m sure all financial contributions would be very grateful received . Go to the SHAMELESS BEGGING bit at the bottom of the latest page. It is really simple.

In response to your comment, I expect they’re run off their feet with this but it sounds like a good idea.

98566 Mark, replying to Mark, 10, #277 of 1168 🔗

A bedwetting group of MPs, led by the Liberal Democratic leadership hopeful Layla Moran, has urged the Government to commit to a ‘zero Covid’ strategy.

A selection of our “elite” (in status terms alone) who seemingly have never heard of diminishing returns and have no understanding of the concept of cost versus benefit.

98582 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mark, 4, #278 of 1168 🔗

cv19 is here, and here to stay, whether real or make-believe it is here and we have to live with it.

Maybe we ought to be paying more attention to the likes of TB, which is on the rise but the population are no longer inoculated to get protection against it.

Who could ever trust a politician or anyone with a position of power after the last few month?

Layla Moran interview with Iain Dale on LBC I listened to it live when it was broadcast and something shocked me at the time, not related to cv19, will have to watch the video to remind me. I know I should never be shocked by anything any politician has to say.

Found it she is a supporter of Universal Basic Income, but only after the start of cv19.

98618 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #279 of 1168 🔗

I had a TB jab at school and remember it being spoken of with fear by the oldies but as something in theit recent past.
It was far more serious than Covid attacking all and sundry regardless of age, gender, ethnicity but it got the poor more because of still squalid living conditions.
My city still has its TB isolation hospital (re-functioned) and so probably does yours.
It took two generations to get rid of TB by a determined policy of rigid isolation.

It is not ‘re-emerging’ in this country it is being reintroduced from distant lands.

98781 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 2, #280 of 1168 🔗

Interestingly it was claimed those who had the BCG vaccine for TB was shown to have some immunity from Covid. Also of note the USA didn’t vaccinate against TB. Note Boris was born in New York so wasn’t vaccinated against TB perhaps if he had been he wouldn’t have caught Covid?

99334 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella Donna, #281 of 1168 🔗

That should be easy enough to check, if they still know how to trawl through paper records.

99115 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to karenovirus, 1, #282 of 1168 🔗

Remember the scab well still carry the scare

98659 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #283 of 1168 🔗

Who could ever trust authority of any kind.

98786 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 4, #284 of 1168 🔗

I never would again. Its not great waking up and realising its all one big scam and I’m not just talking about Covid here, the whole Establishment thing is a scam. Life, religion, justice. A scam to make the little people malleable so we’ll cause less trouble.

98732 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #285 of 1168 🔗

There are many in Layla’s constituency with links to various parts of the University of Oxford research base (medical and scientific), including world experts in TB. Try getting your kid vaccinated against TB, though, because ‘it’s been eradicated’. We paid to have it done privately. I will use this in my defence when they round me up as one of the CV vaccine refuseniks!

98596 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, 8, #286 of 1168 🔗

Viruses (virii) don’t have Going Zero done to them but they can both fade away all by themselves (to be replaced by yet another, ) or mutate all by themselves into something more benign like the Common Cold and thus become the Most Successful Virus In The History Of The World.

98915 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #287 of 1168 🔗

If you want to be super-pedantic, the plural of virus is virus (short u in the singular, long u in the plural).The original meaning was ‘poison’.

99335 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #288 of 1168 🔗

Like sheep not sheeps!

98664 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Mark, 6, #289 of 1168 🔗

“zero Covid” (or “Covid zero”) is surely a total dead-end now the virus has become more or less endemic worldwide. But it seems like a dead-end rabbit hole that “progressive” “elite” political and media elements are starting to fall into.
It can’t possibly work, but how much longer this nightmare will be drawn out, and how much more damage done in the progress, by attempts to implement it, God only knows!

98717 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 7, #290 of 1168 🔗

And after reading this https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1296831401187319808
I may never vote Green again… The only positive is that a lot – more than half – of the comments are very sceptical, not least this one “Absolute travesty. Wake up call for any who considered the Greens an alternative voice”

98739 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Drawde927, 8, #291 of 1168 🔗

You shouldn’t have voted Green in the first place. They are part of the problem. Zero this, Zero that. When I was in the U.S. Army in Georgia, all the Dixie Cups/Styrofoam Cups had ‘Zero Defects’ printed on them. Zero has been around for a long time, even though it’s an impossible goal for anyone, or anything, to ever achieve.

98794 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Drawde927, 1, #292 of 1168 🔗

At least you’ve woken up!

99669 ▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Drawde927, #293 of 1168 🔗

It’s kind of depressing that intelligent people should be so divorced from reality as to tweet this stuff.

98718 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 2, #294 of 1168 🔗

Although it was very ‘surprising’ to see the make up of the cross-part group she chairs (David Davis – he needs to get out more!), for Layla this is a no-lose situation if you know anything of the constituency she represents. Sadly, I do!

99037 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #295 of 1168 🔗

David Davis – a real disappointment in this coronapanic test. Though not as much for me as it was for our MIA farinances, iirc….

98599 Basics, 9, #296 of 1168 🔗

The creep creeps on.

from Edinburgh live today.
A high school in Edinburgh has made it compulsory for all pupils and staff to wear face coverings, according to reports.

In a memo to parents, the school said face coverings will be compulsory from 8am on Monday morning for all pupils and staff.

Government coronavirus guidelines say that pupils and teachers should be supported to wear a face covering if they wish to do so, but they are not mandatory.

98600 Good_column_Rachel_Well_Done, replying to Good_column_Rachel_Well_Done, 3, #297 of 1168 🔗

Rachel Johnson’s piece is properly brilliant, really could help bring left wingers and remainers in to the anti-lockdown cause. We need to be spreading it widely, it is so good to see proof that this anti-lockdown opinon exists in a wider category of people than the typical pro-lockdownists like to beleive (they claim we are all Trump Supporting, Brexiteer, Right Wingers)

98623 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to Good_column_Rachel_Well_Done, 12, #298 of 1168 🔗

I’m a lefty and remain voter, but have been a sceptic since day one. Quite astonished by how many on the left support lockdowns, considering how much damage it does to so many issues they supposedly care about. I had to stop reading the Guardian a while ago. So disappointed in that newspaper. I check in every now and then to see what the columnists are saying – strangely quiet about coronavirus itself, but having lots of moans about the consequences of lockdown. If only they were able to join the dots…

98636 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tommo, 2, #299 of 1168 🔗

Turns out human rights are only important if the establishment lefties aren’t scared enough (of a jumped up flu, ffs!) to abandon them. (Obviously, the lefties on here aren’t in that hypocritical category).

98753 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mark, 1, #300 of 1168 🔗

The Johnson government is behaving like the EU. How about that?

98769 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to richard riewer, 2, #301 of 1168 🔗

It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone afterall he is at heart a Remainer, as is his family. The man’s a fraud, he’s no Conservative either!

98648 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tommo, 4, #302 of 1168 🔗

My story is exactly the same as yours. Except now I’d vote Leave if given the choice again, after learning a bit more about how the EU operates.

98661 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Mr Dee, 15, #303 of 1168 🔗

I’m not sure what my politics are now. To be honest I feel I would support any party or individual who took a honest stand against this madness. Certainly I never thought 6 months ago I would want to cancel my BBC TV licence and would prefer reading the Daily Telegraph to any other paper!
I’ve totally lost faith in the opposition parties and the media who support them, it feels like they are fundamentally “not the friend” of the general public and are rather enjoying the opportunity this crisis gives them.

Similarly I’ve had it with Biden in the US after his “wear masks everywhere and save 40,000 lives” (or was it 400,000?), seems like his equivalent of Trump’s “why not inject yourself with bleach” speech. To be honest after his sidelining of Fauci and appointing Scott Atlas, I feel less loathing for Trump than for his opponents at the minute! For all his many, many faults, he does seem to be genuinely outside the political “establishment” and so at least partly immune to (or simply oblivious to) the suffocating groupthink around Covid politics.

99375 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Drawde927, 2, #304 of 1168 🔗

I agree totally, I feel very like you about the media, I never in a million yrs thought I woud be sympathetic to Trump but I do see the point he has been making that the media have it in for him, and he does indeed seem to be quite outside the normal establishment which, I guess, is another reason they have it in for him. If he was not so hopeless at appointing advisors and talented at spreading chaos he might have had a chance.

98632 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Good_column_Rachel_Well_Done, 7, #305 of 1168 🔗

Though some of us certainly are Trump supporting (faute de mieux), Brexiteer, and right wing, and proud of it.

98601 swedenborg, 4, #306 of 1168 🔗

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.28.225102v1

Malaria drug artesunate effective against SARS-Corona 2

https://www.rfi.fr/en/africa/20200624-artemisia-shows-promise-against-covid-19-in-lab-tests-say-researchers?ref=tw

Artesunate comes from worm wood Artemisia which in the above linked has been used against C-19.

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1297095518586380288

Madagascar had a natural progression of the pandemic now in burn out. Very few deaths
“Madagascar is in pandemic burnout mode. It has tackled the disease with the local antimalarial artemisia. Its Case Fatality Rate of 1.3% compares well to Africa’s 2.3%.
“But it is Madagascar’s President Rajoelina who had grabbed the spotlight for his promotion of the Malagasy herbal tea, despite questions surrounding the scientific basis for his claims and the actual ingredients of the drink itself besides artemisia. “

 Not sure whether it means that they used intravenous artesunate (anti malaria) or if he refers to the herbal tea used by the crank president.

98602 DocRC, 4, #307 of 1168 🔗

Here is the ever reliable Ivor Cummins interviewing Dr Ron Daniels, ICU Consultant in Birmingham- both pouring cold water on the 2nd wave nonsense! Worth posting again in case anyone missed it last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_BHZCYAAsY

98610 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #308 of 1168 🔗

Just to mention the goings on around ‘Zero’. Zero Covid as mentioned above is distinctly different from Covid Zero.

As posted yesterday DELVE (and therefore SAGE) contributor Devi Sirdhar stated that Zero cases is never going to happen. In the context of Sturgeons stated Covid Zero plan Devi put forth the concept that zero is just about as much elimination as possible. Seek out the tweet on Devi’s twitter feed – this is how public health is managed by these dangerous social engineers.

What I am saying badly is – people need to pay very close attention to what exactly these terms mean. Further what each member of these groups think they mean.

There 5.5 million people here who think sturgeon is gunning for total eradication. When her chief advisor Devi comes up with contrary statement.

The battle is becoming one of meaning attributed to words.

98622 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Basics, 9, #309 of 1168 🔗

What the actual fuck?
It’s like the People’s Front of Judaea.
You couldn’t make it up

98660 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sophie123, #310 of 1168 🔗

Agree.

99070 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sophie123, #311 of 1168 🔗

Well said.

98755 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, 2, #312 of 1168 🔗

Sturgeon is a Zero but is still hanging around. When will she eliminate herself?

98614 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #313 of 1168 🔗

Just listened to Toby on Radio 4’s Any Questions. As soon as he started to put the sceptic viewpoint, the presenter tried to cut him off. He was given about half as much talk time as the boring politicians. And that idiot Charles Clarke is STILL trying to talk up identity cards!

98627 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, 5, #314 of 1168 🔗

It was entirely unsurprising that Charles “your papers please” Clarke was the most enthusiastic for enforcing the literally stupid quarantine policy.

I did come away a bit concerned that the idiot chatter seems to be focused on pushing our government of fools to increase the level of theatrics in this area. Doubtless a few unlucky individuals will be “made an example of”.

98619 Sophie123, replying to Sophie123, 17, #315 of 1168 🔗

I was stuck in traffic last night, listening to LBC and prof David King of alternative SAGE “fame” was on, going on about R and how this was very worrying, and we should “press the panic button”. Whoever was hosting only let through coronaphobes to comment so as to give the impression it was reasonable.

But in King’s statements of “facts” there was a lot of misinformation. He said more people were dying of COVID than ‘flu and that the “cases” that we had seen an increase in were all sick people with symptoms. His tone was verging on hysterical. I actually think he sounded on the verge of senility. Why does this guy get any airtime?

Much more sensible presenter this morning on with Andrew Castle (no idea who he is) who seemed to be an emerging sceptic (“was this all a massive overreaction?”…..er YES)

98628 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sophie123, 3, #316 of 1168 🔗

I’ve gone past the stage of trying to reason with people who repeat this guff (David king) and simply say they are lying to you every day, sometimes bothering to give an example or show a screenshot ONS chart.

98633 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to karenovirus, 4, #317 of 1168 🔗

Yeah. Waste of energy. None so blind as those who will not see, etc.

98645 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, 4, #318 of 1168 🔗

It’s incredible. Relentless propaganda from people who are themselves insane. MW

98757 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #319 of 1168 🔗

Hitler’s entourage were all certifiably insane and given free rein. Look what they did.

98702 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, 3, #320 of 1168 🔗

I sent a friend a link to a government website admitting the “with/probably” covid numbers game, it was if I had told her I believe in shapeshifting lizard overlords.

98737 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to nat, #321 of 1168 🔗

Have you got the link Nat?

DavidC

98803 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to DavidC, 1, #322 of 1168 🔗

I am in Australia so I am not sure if it is what you are looking for but here it is, same bloody racket
https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/1205.0.55.001

98815 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to nat, #323 of 1168 🔗

That theory is starting to look sensible

98841 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #324 of 1168 🔗

More sensible than the official story !

98638 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sophie123, 2, #325 of 1168 🔗

Article about David King, doesn’t inspire much confidence:

The number of diesel cars sharply increased after the Labour government cut fuel duty on diesel vehicles in 2001. Challenged about the move on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, King said on Tuesday: “It turns out we were wrong.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/04/fuel-duty-cut-for-diesel-cars-was-wrong-says-ex-chief-science-adviser

And another:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4380806/Man-dash-diesel-called-C02-worse-terror.html

98677 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sophie123, 10, #326 of 1168 🔗

He is very bitter that he did not get the Nobel prize that he so clearly thinks he should have done. In common parlance ‘hell hath no fury like a woman scorned’, but I can assure you that ‘hell hath no fury like an arrogant male scientist scorned of the ultimate accolade’! Let’s also not forget the part he played – with Neil Ferguson – in the Foot & Mouth fiasco that nearly led to the mass slaughter of nearly every cloven-hooved animal in Great Britain. He sees this as his redemption, but he is wrong again!

99249 ▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #327 of 1168 🔗

Yup, he’s been bleating the same hysterical bullshit about climate change for years (everyone will have to live in Antarctica soon). UK column has an excellent documentary on F&M – people should have been prosecuted for that (probably including King & Ferguson). Appalling.

98624 mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #328 of 1168 🔗

This was posted this morning …. so for those that missed it
https://twitter.com/gmpolice
See how Manchester police prioritised policing yesterday
Loads of tweets similar to this
“Officers attended a house in #Droylsden and dispersed 7 adults all from different households. Homeowner has been issued with a fixed penalty notice”

98759 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to mjr, 4, #329 of 1168 🔗

Fuck off!
Sorry, I write what immediately pops into my head sometime.

98799 ▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 7, #330 of 1168 🔗

Oh how I love lockdown, so I can destroy
A child’s birthday party, such innocent joy,
All meetings of friends to share love and good will,
Every family occasion, all that’s good I can kill.
This flourishing police state fulfils my ambition:
To totally blight the whole human condition.

(Annie finds out with horror, now that birthday’s her song,
She’s beginning to sound rather like Patience Strong.)

99161 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to mjr, #331 of 1168 🔗

Yes, know someone from the Manchester vicinity, she has got not dissimilar stories – pensioners who copied or pasted something from a blog that mentioned gender had police on their doorstep within a few hours.Gotta love the Police priorities… London has it well nailed on. Sadiq Khan has made it a priority to crack down on racist road names, Squares, and murals. Knife crime & acid attacks are at record levels, overwhelming % of burglaries not investigated… but Cadogan Square? Russell Square? how dare they!

99420 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, #332 of 1168 🔗

good to see that the MoS has picked up on this

98635 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 21, #333 of 1168 🔗

More than 100 MPs have written to Boris Johnson after the coronavirus lockdown caused severe disruption to cancer diagnoses and treatments. They have called on him to deliver an emergency boost to treatment capacity.

Five months too late!
Johnson should be put on trial, along with all his cabinet and supporters.

98640 ▶▶ stewart, replying to richard riewer, 16, #334 of 1168 🔗

The whole lot of MPs should be put on trial for putting us all under house arrest and precipitating an economic and social calamity.

98643 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to richard riewer, #335 of 1168 🔗

Hi Richard riewer where was that info shared? I want to see if “my” MP is on the list.

98652 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Dave #KBF, #336 of 1168 🔗

It was the second of Toby’s articles today, with a big photo of your PM.

98637 stewart, 22, #337 of 1168 🔗

Yep, we gone from importing Chinese goods to importing their style of government.

Lack of dissent I think comes from the fact that almost everyone bought into the panic to start with. Dissent is limited to those who didn’t buy the BS from day one or are big enough to admit they got it wrong. It’s a small group.

98639 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 23, #338 of 1168 🔗

This morning we watched the Royal Scot go past – one of the steam specials which we sometimes get on the Hope Valley Line. There were a lot of people around to watch it on a certain station with not a mask in sight in the sideways rain (something we do very well up here!) The platform shelter was fairly packed; I counted 2 masks and a scarf.

The train came through – an awesome spectacle and sound, complete with a whistle for the crowd. It was really ‘going like a train’ up the hill with lots of mucky smoke and steam coming out of the stacks. All that fossil fuel – it seemed like a rebellion! AG’s train-nerd brother says the engine was doing 6 beats to a bar, if anyone’s interested. There were people in the vintage carriages, mostly at tables, and we didn’t notice any masks. Presumably they were all ‘dining’ throughout their journey – I do hope so.

We met a former Tory local councillor and his partner who shook my hand. He’s a really nice bloke but has totally bought all the propaganda because lives on ArseBook. We told him a few things and he was at least listening. Sadly, he’s one of those ‘see both sides’ chaps who will smile and agree his way into the hell-hole.

Anyway, he told us that, at the height of the ‘pandemic’, he’d posted on FB that a doctor friend had told him that the local hospital was empty with no CV19 patients. (Funny that, since its catchment area, Stockport, is currently locked down again because there are so many new ‘cases’!) The Labour county councillor, someone we have always thought was a good egg, replied, telling him not to spread fake news. He asked her if she was calling his friend a liar but she didn’t bother to reply. So, there’s another Labour politician, cheer-leading the tyranny – brilliant!

The anticlimax was the arrival of the nearly empty local northern service, complete with a few dreary zombies. They used to be packed to the rafters on a Saturday. There were shouts of ‘follow that!’

Anyway, the sheer exuberance and power of the steam train was uplifting and, as a reminder of our industrial heritage and the old normal, a symbol of hope. MW

98641 mjr, replying to mjr, 10, #339 of 1168 🔗

Just reading through Toby’s article above re the APPG zero covid stance and his rebuttal.
Toby, you should be ashamed. Several times you state “….. have died of Covid-19″ .. But we all know this should be “……have died WITH Covid” or “……. have died having been tested positive for Covid”

98650 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to mjr, 11, #340 of 1168 🔗

Yes, agreed, and once again, Toby, please stop propagating the ‘cases’ myth. They are not cases – they are people with positive test results. MW

98738 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #341 of 1168 🔗

Words are powerful. We must beware of bad habits and say what we actually mean.

98647 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 5, #342 of 1168 🔗

Don’t know much about st jacinda but after watching this I don’t like the cut of her jib.

https://youtu.be/xvP_R9snOSY

98669 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to stefarm, 4, #343 of 1168 🔗

I love it! ‘If you do not hear it from us, it is not the truth’. Hilarious!

DavidC

98707 ▶▶ nat, replying to stefarm, 2, #344 of 1168 🔗

A High Court just ruled her first lockdown was unlawful. I hope this is a sign of things to come.

98735 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to nat, 2, #345 of 1168 🔗

I’ve just posted above – the first one was unlawful but because of law changes since then it’s no longer unlawful. Madness.

DavidC

98734 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, 1, #346 of 1168 🔗

Good grief! You can trust us! You can trust us. Dismiss every other source of info.

Translates as “You can trust us – NOT!!”

99338 ▶▶ adele, replying to stefarm, #347 of 1168 🔗

She’s awful. That’s the 1st time I’ve ever watched her speak. It’s as if even her face is being controlled by someone else 🤥

98649 karenovirus, 23, #348 of 1168 🔗

I was just standing, Socially Distant, behind mr bean in a small co op I don’t usually use. After making a hash of buying lottery tickets he Span around and almost bumped into me shocked at my not wearing a mask. His look annoyed me so I said
“You’re wearing a mask yet ignore the one way system and expect me to move ?”
He scurried off in the ‘right’ direction as the man behind the till smiled.
Stunning and brave ? No I was quite a bit bigger than him.

Leaving the shop a young boy is walking up the hill in front of his mum, he tugs his mask down and mum, with another child in tow, leans over him to pull it back up and repeat… so this is clearly habitual.
Thing is the lad is right, under 11s are not required to wear and neither does anybody in the open air. Hopefully this will sear Into his mind a hatred of the bloody things.

98651 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 11, #349 of 1168 🔗

The quote regarding Birmingham seems to confirm my suspicions about the local lockdowns being a tool of psychological manipulation and control, rather than a genuine (though misguided and misinformed) attempt to control the virus.

“If our previous warnings to keep doing the basics haven’t been enough, this has to be the wake-up call for everyone,” he said. “Wash your hands, wear face coverings wherever possible, keep two metres apart from others and get tested if you have COVID-19 symptoms.”

I can’t believe any of the government’s scientific advisors really believe that local lockdowns are necessary (or effective) at this stage, or are unaware that cases are actually falling if increased testing is taken into account.

But they’re a very effective way of keeping people afraid and keeping people convinced that all these “basics” measures are still necessary. Even daily “infection” (aka positive test) counts, are now insufficient for this (daily death tolls already having been quietly sidelined), so without the local lockdowns people would gradually drift back towards normality, and would soon start to wake up to the fact that they don’t really need to be scared anymore.

The Sky News feature last week on pubs in Oldham (can’t remember the link) seems like part of this propaganda… the message is “don’t think you can get away with this!”

98666 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Drawde927, 4, #350 of 1168 🔗

If our previous warnings to keep doing the basics haven’t been enough, this has to be the wake-up call for everyone,” he said. “Wash your hands, wear face coverings wherever possible, keep two metres apart from others and get tested if you have COVID-19 symptoms.”

That’s 4 NO’s then .

98656 Hopeful, replying to Hopeful, 3, #351 of 1168 🔗

Are we outnumbered? Will those running the coup achieve their goals? It’s looking more and more likely going by today’s news. Think I may be bowing out sooner than I feared I’d need to. Have a few regrets but not many. Ironic considering my name I know!

98692 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Hopeful, #352 of 1168 🔗

Bowing out meaning….?

98742 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Hopeful, 1, #353 of 1168 🔗

Always outnumbered, never outgunned.

98814 ▶▶ nat, replying to Hopeful, 3, #354 of 1168 🔗

Hopeful, I felt like you but I have started feeling more hopeful myself in the last couple of days – there seems to be a shift towards scepticism in the MSM and the public, and certain politicians are starting to be held accountable ( Victorian Premier and NZ PM) We are being challenged like never before, but I believe it could be the making of us too.

98657 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 10, #355 of 1168 🔗

It is time to unmask our oppressors.

98699 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 3, #356 of 1168 🔗

Big job. Anyone who voluntarily wears a face nappy is one of them.

98658 nat, replying to nat, 11, #357 of 1168 🔗

It has not been a good week for Chairman Dan in Melbourne. There is currently an inquiry into his handling of the hotel quarantines. The inquiry has heard evidence from nurses, security guards and guests from quarantine hotels describing a shambolic approach to infectious disease control.

The Intelligence Section of the COVID-19 Public Health Incident Management ( ! ) provided evidence that the entire second wave, that led to the second lockdown, had been traced back to these quarantine hotels.

https://amp.smh.com.au/national/as-the-second-wave-eases-will-the-premier-s-prevarications-hurt-him-20200821-p55nxj.html?fbclid=IwAR1j6uTEnv2FRaeF9MdcZrwgz_zi2wIDY-x26Yi8b-2474m6DaYmHFMHqns

And a Victorian Police Chief refuted another of his reasons for implementing stage 4 Lockdown. Daniels had claimed that 1 in 4 Victorians were ignoring isolation conditions and “not taking this seriously”. On Friday Police Chief Rick Nugent stated that “Police had completed 297,000 compliance checks to date with 43 fines issued for breaching isolation conditions. For the most part community compliance has been outstanding” he said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/the-justification-for-victorias-lockdown-is-built-on-very-very-loose-sand/video/828abd5cd6c30a120cab3a66e6275c9a

This week saw Andrews inadvertently reveal his government’s fix for keeping infection rates high, when he moaned that they had run out of people to test to provide the needed numbers. I think they have tested every single one of us in Melbourne, and have resorted to trawling the outer reaches of the state to ratchet up numbers. I wouldn’t put it past them to test the sheep.

I truly hope this is the start of a major backlash against the premier, it is desperately needed as he moves to extend state of emergency capabilities indefinitely :

“Daniels Andrews is working with the state’s solicitor-general to introduce new legislation and amendments to allow authorities to extend the state of emergency for as long as necessary.”

http://www.news.com.au/national/vic-premier-moves-to-extend-state-of-emergency-capabilities-indefinitely/video/33c6bc50e2176e504d3e738c9309b696

98688 ▶▶ stewart, replying to nat, 13, #358 of 1168 🔗

It’s not a coincidence that the premier who stuffed up the quarantine of incoming travellers and got caught out has turned into the biggest Nazi.

His example is a microcosm of what we are experiencing around the world. Governments that completely screwed up and are now overdoing it so they cannot be accused of any blood being on their hands.

It shows the worst effects of spineless governments combined with irresponsible, sensationalist media.

98711 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to stewart, 3, #359 of 1168 🔗

Yes that’s true. Some more good news is that a High Court in NZ found the first lockdown was unlawful. I hope it’s a sign they are finally being held accountable.

98733 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to nat, 1, #360 of 1168 🔗

It was but unfortunately they changed the laws so it’s no longer unlawful.

DavidC

98819 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to DavidC, 1, #361 of 1168 🔗

I hope it causes them some damage at least. I read people will be able to make claims for the brief period between the lockdown and the date they changed the law

98771 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to stewart, 2, #362 of 1168 🔗

Melbourne citizens should all e-mail (or even better, write an actual letter) their dictator, as public gatherings are sadly not allowed, opposing the measures and offering FORGIVENESS for his actions. Maybe even hint they will vote for him again, which of course they will not.

98825 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Silke David, #363 of 1168 🔗

You would be amazed at how many people support him still… I really hope this catches on with the public.

98835 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Silke David, 3, #364 of 1168 🔗

I live in the UK but I do like the idea of sending actual letters – could make a bit more of an impression than emails if they all turned up at once. Here Johnson sent us all a letter, so we could all return the favour. Soon as he returns from his holidays.

98724 ▶▶ nat, replying to nat, #365 of 1168 🔗

I posted this twice by mistake – does anyone know if there a way to delete it ?

98727 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to nat, 1, #366 of 1168 🔗

I dont think dangling from a lamppost would be too good for him. The man is mad.

98820 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Bella Donna, #367 of 1168 🔗

Mad, dangerous and evil !

98740 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to nat, 5, #368 of 1168 🔗

Let’s all set up a crowd-funder to donate some Tanzanian paw-paw fruit to Melbourne for Andrews to test. That will boost up the positive case numbers.

98822 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Mr Dee, #369 of 1168 🔗

heh heh

98665 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 41, #370 of 1168 🔗

Anders Tegnell: ” Sweden had a long-established plan for a pandemic, Mr Tegnell said, and was going to stick to it.  People should be sensible, wash their hands, avoid public transport and keep a safe distance, but that was it.

Closing schools was ‘meaningless’. Shutting borders was ‘ridiculous’. Masks were, by and large, a waste of time. Shops and restaurants should stay open.

And when interviewers asked why Sweden was not following Germany, France and Britain in locking down, Mr Tegnell had a robust answer. Other countries, he said, had ‘panicked’. But panicking was not the Swedish way.”

Boris (the Fake Churchill) panicked and we are all paying the price.

98693 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #371 of 1168 🔗

Go Sweden!

98736 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Victoria, 10, #372 of 1168 🔗

I remember a time when panicking was not the British way either.

When did this country lose its mettle?

98800 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #373 of 1168 🔗

1997

98725 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 17, #374 of 1168 🔗

Swedes 1 – Turnips 0

98782 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, 5, #375 of 1168 🔗

Reminds me of a notice in a supermarket in Harwich, where the ferries dock from Scandinavia.
It was in the vegetable section and read SWEDES CUT IN TWO HERE.

98671 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 25, #376 of 1168 🔗

The reasons for carrying masks is supposedly to reduce transmission from mildly ill C-19 patients and the majority of cases seem to be in this category. There is in my opinion a high risk that masks for the general public increase the risk for transmission especially now as we have a more transmissible virus with perhaps less virulence. Mask does not stop the virus inside the cloth. It can be found outside the mask up to 7 days. Even though theoretically stopping droplet spread (but not airborne viral particles) they instead contaminate the mask and high risk of contamination of fingers.

Let us take France and Greece where 30-40 % smoke. A smoker with 20 cigarettes a day need to take on and off the mask 20 times. Do you think this fellow will run into the toilet and wash his hands every time? No. He would have a fair amount of virus on his hands when he goes to his café and takes his morning ouzo. A hygienic meticulous waiter will clean up his table for his breakfast but forget to clean the chair. The smoker drags out the chair and places some billion viruses on the chair to be picked up by the next customer. Almost everywhere you see masked people using their I phones but often take off partly their masks whilst talking. Never seen them rush into the toilet to clean their hands. There are millions of such interactions each day fiddling with the masks.

It is very interesting to see Spain, Italy, France and Greece following the same mask pattern. During the height of the pandemic in March April nobody had masks. Then when the cases fell and opening up almost all of them mandated masks inside but not compulsory outside. When the cases picked up in all these countries the usual inept politicians mandated mask outside in a quixotic way of stopping the virus. After that the numbers increase even more. There are umpteen cases in the world now that in the exponential phase of the first wave masks had no effect at all. Masks increase transmission. Hand washing is the only evidence-based action which reduces transmission. This has been known for 150 years.

It is quite another subject to say that we should really promote spread in 20-65 years to quickly reach herd immunity instead of delaying the day of reckoning. Nobody promised that social distancing would reduce the cases in total, just spread them over time. We had the chance of selecting a good time to do that, summertime. But all governments (incl. Sweden) did the fatal mistake not to open up everything immediately when excess C-19 deaths had disappeared in Europe in June. Can’t see the meaning to delay this until when we have the other winter viruses incl. flu.

98687 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to swedenborg, 8, #377 of 1168 🔗

Couldn’t agree more. Probably less people than the chance of dying of Covid use their masks properly. Single use – dispose after use. Wash hands every time a mask is touched, wash cloth masks after every use. Nope, hang them on ears, round the neck, under the chin etc. The basic hygiene has gone out the window.

98746 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to swedenborg, 2, #378 of 1168 🔗

The reasons for carrying masks is supposedly to reduce transmission from mildly ill C-19 patients

I was under the impression that symptomatic people were supposed to be self isolating.

98826 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Steve Hayes, #379 of 1168 🔗

Like in flu there is a spectrum of illness from mild to severe in C-19.It seems that mild disease is more frequent in C-19 and theoretically more prone to transmission as many with few symptoms hardly consider themselves really ill and often are surprised of test result,if they happen to be tested.

98922 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, #380 of 1168 🔗

Covid “ill” people tend to be asymptomatic.

98811 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to swedenborg, 3, #381 of 1168 🔗

Totally agree with your assessment of mask wearing. Once winter colds start occurring, it isn’t going to be pretty!

98676 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 17, #382 of 1168 🔗

The DT this morning was absolutely nauseating. However, an article popped uup at luchtime to redress the balance. Too late for those who take their daily paper with their breakfast though!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/22/hysteria-dangerous-coronavirus-symptom/

…. But another symptom has reared its head – affecting those who haven’t even been infected – which may be too troubling for authorities to handle. Some bill it as mere public anxiety, but others see the levels of fear as tantamount to full-blown hysteria.

…. Research commissioned that July by the firm Kekst CNC showed how far public perceptions about the pandemic had been skewed, finding they were inclined to believe the spread and fatality was more than a hundred times worse than the reality.

…. [Prof Udi Qimron, the incoming head of clinical microbiology and immunology at Tel Aviv University] warned: “In a world where decision-makers, their advisers and the media were able to admit their mistake and the initial panic that gripped them, we would have long since returned to routine. The ongoing destruction due to the inability to admit this mistake, despite the epidemic’s small mortality numbers, is outrageous. History will judge the hysteria.”

…. The scars left by the Covid are visible on the popular psyche. Kekst found in its survey of international public opinion that the UK remains the most concerned about a second wave – with 76 per cent expecting one in the next year or so. By contrast, Sweden is the only country recorded as being increasingly less worried about a resurgence in the virus.

I wonder why that would be – 2nd wave, 2nd wave, 2nd wave …….

98685 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #383 of 1168 🔗

Quite, nice it’s in the Telegraph but not news to us.

98720 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 2, #384 of 1168 🔗

News to a lot of DT readers and a welcome counterbalance to the ridiculous R-rate scaremongering by Sarah Knapton.

98728 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #385 of 1168 🔗

I’ve said before the R rate doesn’t mean a lot. R rate of 1 and death rate of 0% is a lot different to an R rate of 1 and a death rate of 100%!

DavidC

98920 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, 2, #386 of 1168 🔗

WE know that!

98946 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #387 of 1168 🔗

I suspect the UK gov and many of the guilty “experts” and opinion “influencers” desperately, desperately need to keep the terror going until they can claim they saved us by holding out until the vaccine became available.

It doesn’t have to be a particularly convincing claim, just enough to allow the complicit media to flannel the idiots who fell for their nonsense.

98683 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 8, #388 of 1168 🔗

3pm Saturday R2 News. Director of Public Health Lancashire “these new measures are necessary and things are already improving, cases are going down already”.
Really Doctor, after 2 days ?

Reminds of the time, I think about mid 2000s, when a flu season was going on a bit longer than usual, the press were starting to notice so Blair appointed a Flu Tzar to get things sorted, crack some heads in the NHS to protect the public.

I asked a senior medic about this.
“That’s nonsense, we’ve been on top of this for a month and numbers have been going down nationally for three weeks now.”

Lo and behold the Flu Tzar was all over the media a week later with the good news that, thanks to his hard work, with help of our Tone, things were starting to get better….

98723 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 5, #389 of 1168 🔗

I loathe Bliar even seeing his name makes me see red which is why I always misspell it.

98684 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, -17, #390 of 1168 🔗

Wow, the Questioning Covid site looks like conspiracy theory central.

98691 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Montag Smith, 3, #391 of 1168 🔗

Don’t feed the troll

98700 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #392 of 1168 🔗

Just thoughts and ideas, do you have any?

98722 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #393 of 1168 🔗

Whether it is or not (and it does have some of the stuff we’ve all been looking at via LS, for example, Vernon Coleman), I’m not sure I trust a site that gives no description of itself, who’s put it together or anything else about it. And yes, some of its postings (although I haven’t looked at them yet) do seem a bit ‘out there’.

DavidC

98730 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Montag Smith, 6, #394 of 1168 🔗

Nah, just open-minded, really. And, as you rightly say, Questioning. Always Questioning.

I’m happy to read, watch or listen to any evidence, whether it’s government sponsored or from David Icke, or anything in-between.

However, I reserve the right to make up my own decision whether it rings true or seems like a pile of steaming shite, based on the existing evidence.

98832 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Mr Dee, #395 of 1168 🔗

You. have an independent mind Mr Dee, we need more like you.

98911 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to nat, 1, #396 of 1168 🔗

“An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.”

98969 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #397 of 1168 🔗

“Blessed is the mind too small for doubt”

99192 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 1, #398 of 1168 🔗

Minds are like parachutes – they work best when open.

99263 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, #399 of 1168 🔗

That definitely sounds like Heresy to me.

98751 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #400 of 1168 🔗

Excellent – I was starting to think questioning had been banned

98834 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Major Panic, #401 of 1168 🔗

They are doing their best !

98797 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #402 of 1168 🔗

Wow, the comment by Anonymous looks like that of a shill.

98812 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #403 of 1168 🔗

Thinking for ones self is important Baldrick. What do you think?

98910 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to NonCompliant, 1, #404 of 1168 🔗

What really matters is having a cunning plan.
And one’s very own turnip.

99169 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Montag Smith, #405 of 1168 🔗

Ever noticed you can replace the words ‘conspiracy theory’ with ‘seeks intellectual honesty, which generally involves thinking for oneself and not getting the sum total of your thoughts and feelings from the mainstream media…’?

99397 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Montag Smith, -1, #406 of 1168 🔗

It seems this way but on the other hand, always good to have a look at the entire range of views and analyse them critically. Such as one video where it was all verifiable from statistics about deaths and cases until they got onto 5G and claimed that it cuts the DNA sequence. This is not true, it is not ionising and is lower frequency than visible light! Then they continued about it being used for surveillance, which is a totally separate matter and a concern!

98696 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 5, #407 of 1168 🔗

Love this quote under our fearless leader’s photo

My advice to the good people of Britain is… don’t get cancer in 2020.”

98719 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Victoria, #408 of 1168 🔗

Someone asked on DT what would prefer to have Covid or Cancer? I think it was directed at a sheep who wanted all Covid measures enforced even to taking away our pensions if we refuse the vaccine.

98709 annie, replying to annie, 31, #409 of 1168 🔗

Two little songs for today’s children. Feeling a bit infernal today.

1
Baa, baa, masked sheep, have you any will?
No sir, no sir, we’re slaves still.
Slaves to the tyrant and slaves to the liar,
Slaves trotting on the path into hell fire.

2
Where have all our freedoms gone, short time passing?
Where have all our freedoms gone?
Snatched by tyrants every one.
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?

Where have all past tyrants gone, long time passing?
Where have all past tyrants gone, long time ago?
Into hell fire every one.
That’s where our lot will burn,
They’ll go there in their turn.

98758 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to annie, 5, #410 of 1168 🔗

Annie that’s brilliant! I am a scientist by background, so completely illiterate. However, aspects of O Level English Lit have remained with me forever – ‘Murder will out’ (Chaucer, Nun’s Priest’s Tale)

98913 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #411 of 1168 🔗

Go tell that long tongue liar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IStlBOX9F4o

You can run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
Sooner or later God’ll cut you down
Sooner or later God’ll cut you down.

98731 steve, replying to steve, 15, #412 of 1168 🔗

The scores are in boys and girls

Luckily when you look at the chart produced by the ONS, the 5 year average flu deaths have almost halved but the “CV” figures handily went up by almost the same as the flu deaths fell.

Good job the symptoms are so different or they could have got confused 🧐 🤔

I’ve been telling this to people since March when offguardian first reported this is what the doctors were doing as a result of the changes to the reporting requirement put in place by the Government .

I’m sending this to all my lockdown loving friends who thought I was mental

98809 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to steve, 1, #413 of 1168 🔗

Great find 🙂

Been waiting for stats on Flu deaths since this got started.

98845 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to steve, 6, #414 of 1168 🔗

I spotted a link today to one of the “fact checker” sites supposedly debunking the story that more people died of flu than Covid in July: https://fullfact.org/health/flu-covid-deaths/

In fact, it doesn’t really “debunk” the story at all if read carefully. The article states that the number of flu deaths is higher than Covid, just not by as large a factor as was claimed: the total number of people dying of pneumonia or flu is probably higher than the number dying of Covid-19 at the moment, but not by the margin that these headlines suggest.

The other thing the article does is to make the distinction between dying with and dying from flu and pneumonia, but assume almost everyone who died with Covid-19 on their death certificate died from .

In reality, I would suspect most of the people dying with or from either were so elderly and frail that in normal circumstances it would be academic what their death certificate actually says they died of.

98934 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Drawde927, 4, #415 of 1168 🔗

“Fact Checker” = Thought Police

98903 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve, #416 of 1168 🔗

Despite the lack of NHS treatment for anything but covid, the lower deathrate for most common causes suggests there’s usually a lot of iatrogenesis going on!

98743 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #417 of 1168 🔗

And as most are socialist leaning governments it confirms my opinion who the real fascists are. Hitler belonged to the The National Socialist German Workers Party. The Internet calls them a far right party when in fact they were from the Far Left. They make it up!

98785 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 12, #418 of 1168 🔗

Far Left, Far Right, no difference. Boot stamping on face. Left boot, right boot, no difference.

98789 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #419 of 1168 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZlExF7fP5c
Mighty Gabby ‘Government Boots’

98787 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #420 of 1168 🔗

Two sides of the same coin. The far left and the far right are equally eager to take our freedoms away.

99058 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #421 of 1168 🔗

Ain’t the “far left” or the “far right” taking our freedoms away currently, at least as those terms are normally applied. It’s the establishment parties of the supposed “centre left” and “centre right”

98747 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 9, #422 of 1168 🔗

I thought Johnson has packed up his tent and fucked off.

Can’t be much of a national emergency if he is poncing about in Greece.

98749 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to stefarm, 2, #423 of 1168 🔗

Quite!

98748 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 11, #424 of 1168 🔗

The contradictions of the Daily Telegraph.

Someone must know why they publish a major scare story early in the morning and then one warning of the risks of hysteria at lunchtime.

The irony!

Is there any editorial policy in play or is it just a free for all these days?

98795 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to hotrod, 11, #425 of 1168 🔗

I think they’re just gaslighting their readership. I’m cancelling my subscription as it’s garbage by and large.

98818 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to NonCompliant, 4, #426 of 1168 🔗

Was thinking about this today and gas lighting is exactly what came to mind but you beat me to it!

98847 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to NonCompliant, 6, #427 of 1168 🔗

I also cancelled, occasional good pieces by the columnists are far outweighed by the constant scaremongering by the journalists. I thought they might have eased off on all the negative scare stories over the last couple of months, but I guess they get clicks so they keep publishing.

98899 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NonCompliant, 3, #428 of 1168 🔗

I was on a three month cheapo trial that ends next weekend. Won’t be renewing unless there’s a dramatic change in their reporting next week.

99336 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, #429 of 1168 🔗

I thought of trying the one month free trial when I stopped buying the print version but they wanted my bank details up front, sod that.

98956 ▶▶ hat man, replying to hotrod, 1, #430 of 1168 🔗

As I think another comment pointed out, the editorial policy has to be compatible with this:
https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Grants-Database/Grants/2017/11/OPP1179441

But they know there’s also a sceptic market to sell papers to, so we get the honest articles as well. If these start to fade away and we only get the scare stories, that’ll be the time to worry. We’ll know the DT has just received another bung!

99323 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to hat man, 1, #431 of 1168 🔗

Or another check from the Gates Foundation.

98750 stefarm, #432 of 1168 🔗

.

98763 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 49, #433 of 1168 🔗

I am an old “leftie” and a remainer and it comes to something when I have to identify myself with right wing libertarians but it’s not left,right, leave or remain; it’s common sense.
I just wish that more people who think like me would join the common cause.

98765 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 20, #434 of 1168 🔗

I’m your opposite politically Philip, I say this respectfully because we all have our views but I am in total agreement with your comment. Where has all the common sense gone?…

98766 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Arnie, 9, #435 of 1168 🔗

THANK YOU, Arnie.

98774 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Fingerache Philip., -23, #436 of 1168 🔗

I’d question your relationship with “common sense” after admitting to being a leftie. Personally i’d rather admit i was friends with Jimmy Savile and took my holidays on Epstein’s island before admitting i was a lefty

98777 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Biker, 18, #437 of 1168 🔗

Unhelpful and rude.

This issue is beyond political views it’s standing up for our freedom.

98780 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to hotrod, -25, #438 of 1168 🔗

“unhelpful and rude” lol, piss off tosser.

98806 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 9, #439 of 1168 🔗

Cool it you two!

98850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 1, #440 of 1168 🔗

Ok miss, i’m sorry. If you want me to stay back after class for some corporal punishment i’ll only be too happy to oblige.

98908 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 3, #441 of 1168 🔗

The black thigh boots and the riding whip?
Will they fit you?

99122 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, #442 of 1168 🔗

i was thinking more of a cane over the buttocks like what used to happen at my Private School

99195 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, #443 of 1168 🔗

Ah, the privileges of superior social status.

98827 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to hotrod, 1, #444 of 1168 🔗

Thank you hot rod.
Insecurity takes many forms.

98887 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to hotrod, #445 of 1168 🔗

But true!

99350 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 2, #446 of 1168 🔗

I don’t share your politics either Phillip but welcome aboard.
Don’t worry about Biker, he can be like that to anyone, it’s just his way.

98824 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Biker, 3, #447 of 1168 🔗

Yawn.

98833 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, -11, #448 of 1168 🔗

i know and you’re so fucking interesting too, how will i deal with your putdown

98896 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Biker, 3, #449 of 1168 🔗

Calm down! 😄

99123 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Cruella, #450 of 1168 🔗

i think you’re mistaking me for someone from Liverpool

99201 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, #451 of 1168 🔗

We’re much better looking …

99438 ▶▶▶ NappyFace, replying to Biker, #452 of 1168 🔗

I’d suggest you reread your comment to yourself and ask yourself how helpful it is to our predicament.

98791 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Fingerache Philip., 22, #453 of 1168 🔗

You and me are likely not natural bedfellows, but we are in complete agreement on this, because it is essentially a libertarian stance, whether coming from the left (Claire Fox, Brendan O’Neill) or right (Ron Paul) perspective. I am from a working class NE background, but ‘escaped’ through education. I have always voted Tory. I voted for Brexit but love Europeans, and their countries, especially Italy – sons fluent in Spanish and Italian. I have friends from all over the world, of all different religions. Yet, like many on here, I could not support the actions of Dominic Cummings, even if it was somehow an endorsement of breaking the ridiculous lockdown rules, or worse, likely to thwart Brexit. We now need to stick together as patriots (sorry, sounds like a Trumpism) whatever our backgrounds, because there is a nasty undercurrent being fed by the oxygen of incompetence.

98854 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #454 of 1168 🔗

A few months ago, it really annoyed me when anti-lockdown views were described as “libertarian” because I associated that term with the (mostly US) small-state individualist political movement, which I didn’t identify with at all.
Now I wonder if I am actually turning into that sort of libertarian – as my trust in politicians, authority figures and “the state” to do the right thing, and use their power responsibly, has hit rock bottom.

98868 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Drawde927, 7, #455 of 1168 🔗

It is often a function of your early experiences and upbringing. My father lost his job in the 73/74 downturn, and ended up working in the local authority with what could only be described as a bunch of incompetents on the make. We nearly lost our house, and food was not plentiful for a time. He challenged authority, and so did I, even as a child, and with his constant support. I don’t trust anyone in authority – you get there through a blackballing system if you are man, and through pillow talk if you are a woman. Pretty much all of them have skeletons in one or more cupboards! In my life and career I have interacted with several of them, including a few whose names crop up on this site. Trust yourself, count your friends on the fingers of one hand, and batten down the hatches because ‘they’ do not have your interests at heart!

98875 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #456 of 1168 🔗

TT, I agree with everything you say except ‘oxygen of incompetence’. This is a worldwide stitch up. Anybody with half a head can now see that it is all b*llox yet politicians of all colours, MSM, NHS et al are all dialing up the lies and propaganda. I really can’t see how or when this is going to end now

98900 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to T. Prince, 5, #457 of 1168 🔗

Yes, you raise a very good point. I’m not convinced where you draw the line between incompetence and conspiracy, and our government is certainly testing that to the limit. Does Trump buy into this – possibly not? It will be interesting to see what happens if he gets a second term – will he become more hawkish, and will some of the protagonists on the other side of the Atlantic finally lose their heads? Perhaps the true test of worldwide stitch up will come in September/October, and the response to a likely ‘credit event’ – will there be central bank unity or will strategies deviate? It always boils down to money in the end, and private/national interest.

98830 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 11, #458 of 1168 🔗

The fact is that the simplistic ‘left/right’ one-dimensional model of politics is useless at this time – if it was ever anything other.

Both Brexit and Covid have cut across that dimension without discrimination.

98872 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, -1, #459 of 1168 🔗

it’s this kind of statement that made me say the other things i said. left wing people are evil, pure and simple, even if they don’t know it. The things they advocate for bring destruction to individuals and must be challenged at every turn. Right wing people or so called right wing people because you’re only called right wing by leftists, want individualism because that gives every man the right to live as they choose. The idea that i give one fuck for what a left wing person wants is mental. Even if they appear to hold a similar view as myself on one subject the facts remain they’ll try and force me to comply while i’ll not do anything to anybody.

98873 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to RickH, 5, #460 of 1168 🔗

Agree entirely Rick, for the last twenty years or so I’ve been of the opinion that we have had Blue left, Red left or Yellow left (I’m an old school right winger…), with a system very biased to keeping the same old tired faces in place. Now for the first time in my life I think that this erosion of civil liberties and freedoms transcends any of that, it’s above politics, it’s personal to all of us. Why then are so many of our friends, family and associates on the side of the new church of covid? It’s almost as if they want to suffer some more!

Currently we have a mountain to climb, every journey starts with the first step so we’d better get cracking…

98882 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to RickH, 3, #461 of 1168 🔗

Rick. Politicians aren’t in charge anymore. Just puppets of Davos et al. We have no one to turn to, we have no way out

98898 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to T. Prince, 2, #462 of 1168 🔗

There’s no justice.

There’s just us.

98951 ▶▶▶ hat man, replying to RickH, 2, #463 of 1168 🔗

Quite right. ‘Left’ no longer means what it did. We need new labels. Globalist vs. patriot, perhaps?

99213 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to hat man, #464 of 1168 🔗

I’ve long believed left/right to be over-simplistic ideas. My political views are much more complex than that thank you very much.

However if we are after more appropriate new labels then I would suggest “short-term emotionalism” VS “long-term logic”.

The short-term emotionalists always think they are supporting the good and virtuous courses of action, when very often they end up leading to greater long-term evil. They can include a few character types such as idiots who think they are geniuses (so many examples to choose from, let’s say like Dawn Butler). Or another type being psychopaths who choose the emotionalist action purely for recognition from the woke meeja and brainwashed emotional public (Bozo and chums). Our parliament is utterly dominated with emotionalists.

99324 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RickH, #465 of 1168 🔗

It’s all subterfuge now.

98990 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Fingerache Philip., #466 of 1168 🔗

Well, you’re very welcome to our ‘club’, Fingerache Philip. We’re really not how we’re painted by many lefties and remainers. I speak as someone who was on the left for decades.

99436 ▶▶ NappyFace, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #467 of 1168 🔗

They will categorise any questioning of murderous lockdowns and associated policies at “far-right”, “tin-foil hat conspiracy theorists” etc when the truth is that lockdowns will be far, far more damaging to society from a quality-adjusted-life-years perspective than this new virus.

98767 Basics, 3, #468 of 1168 🔗

We won’t survive’: Edinburgh restaurateur introduces £25 deposit after wave of ‘selfish’ no shows

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/we-wont-survive-edinburgh-restaurateur-18813186

98768 alw, 26, #469 of 1168 🔗

Spoke to someone today who has been in Royal Free Hospital for major surgery. No physiotherapy offered prior to discharge or advice for home exercises. Hospital virtually empty. Disgraceful, shameful, no words can express my disgust at this gross failure and ineptitude. A revolution is required.

98773 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #470 of 1168 🔗

“Coronavirus cases spike by 123 overnight in Scotland, with 246 in hospital”

Words above by Edinbutgh live. “Spike by” well in actual fact 246 in hospital is bang on the long lingering downward tremd carriying over month. The reason for the slow decline is discharging with multiple issues takes time and is likely not related to covid19 in and of itself.

The figure is used to bring ‘awe’ to the sum of 123 cases. But cases is an entirely feeble measure. A reason for the scare tactic may be that perhaps edinburgh live are noticing peo0le are wising up to what constitues a case.

98865 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 1, #471 of 1168 🔗

For cases read positive tests, and maybe even multiple positive tests per single case, with a few false positives thrown in as well.

99325 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, #472 of 1168 🔗

I saw a headline that the total number of cases worldwide had reached 20 million. Out of 7.5 billion.

98779 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 9, #473 of 1168 🔗

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200812-exponential-growth-bias-the-numerical-error-behind-covid-19

Thats why we’ve got it wrong, – right, now thats cleared up, I’m off to get a mask

98783 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 4, #474 of 1168 🔗

mind you – it does explain how herd immunity can be achieved so quickly…

98788 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Major Panic, 7, #475 of 1168 🔗

People who are susceptible to the exponential growth bias ?

I’m susceptible to looking at NHS England’s Daily Deaths data sheets and noticing that under 60’s with no existing health conditions are at more risk of dying in an RTA !

More patronising crap from the BBC. I guess the term ‘conspiracy theorist’ needed a makover.

99326 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to NonCompliant, #476 of 1168 🔗

Oh, we’re sorry we made a mistake. Five months of this based on a mistake. Not buying it.

98821 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Major Panic, 10, #477 of 1168 🔗

That’s an amazing reference – because it inverts the actual bias that we have seen and of which we have been victims.

Right from the start of this disastrous Panicdemic has underlain the assumption that the growth of spread of this virus was e xponential !

Of course, it wasn’t, and it took the band of contrarians who pracised good science to point out that this had never been known to happen – and, indeed couldn’t happen.

Who was right??? Yes indeedy! – it wasn’t the fantasists who speculated about this exponential curve of disease – it was the experienced rationalists – like Wittkowski – who predicted the bell-curve.

Now we have some wanker with post-hoc resurrection of pure nonsense from the dead – in direct contradiction of the other evidence that shows that people wildly overestimate the risk from Covid.

This is the ‘Alice Through the Looking Glass’ world inhabited by the likes of this tosser, whilst actual data gets entirely ignored.

99045 ▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to RickH, #478 of 1168 🔗

Peerless Reads on YouTube has been very good on this, both on the data side and the model assessment side. Thoroughly recommend the Skepticat series on the same channel too.

98844 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Major Panic, 7, #479 of 1168 🔗

One day we’re all underestimating the risk and are lazy filthy covidiots who can’t be bothered to wash our hands after going to the toilet. The next we are all hysterical wimps who don’t understand risk and Boris is banging on about getting back to work and not letting coronavirus stop us from doing things. It’s all a load of absolute bollocks and I’m fed up with the lot of it today.

98928 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Major Panic, 6, #480 of 1168 🔗

“According to various epidemiological studies, without intervention the number of new Covid-19 cases doubles every three to four days, which was the reason that so many scientists advised rapid lockdowns to prevent the pandemic from spiralling out of control.”

But didn’t take into account the prevalence of immunity, or how many people would be asymptomatic. And isn’t this article a bit late and just more scaremongering?
During the first couple of months, people were right to be worried and to take it seriously, but even back then, it was very difficult to get a real idea of how bad the virus was or could be.
A Japanese doctor who went on board a cruise ship where there’d been an outbreak, back in February time, was terrified of the virus, and highly critical of how the ship’s crew were h handling it.
But it did not infect everyone on board, and there weren’t that many deaths, when taking everything into account.

As for judging risk: after the Pan Am flight that was blown up over Lockerbie, the number of passengers flying overall dropped, and on Pan Am the numbers plummeted. I flew on Pan Am on a two thirds empty plane to the US, because I figured that after the bombing, the security would be tighter than on any other airline. I was right. They did a second security check at the departure lounge, searching everyone’s belongings, after already going through airport security.
I did my risk assessment, and figured the risk was lower than at any other time.

98792 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 13, #481 of 1168 🔗

Are we going to wake up soon and realise this entire 6 months has just been a bad dream?

98817 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Dave #KBF, 9, #482 of 1168 🔗

please! can it be tomorrow?

98793 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #483 of 1168 🔗

Has anybody’s music tastes changed in the last few weeks? I’m listening to Rage Against the Machine again and have discovered Lee Scratch Perry. Make of that what you will.

98805 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #484 of 1168 🔗

Rage Against the Machine are a bunch of whinny lefty wankers singing about oppression while playing ten thousand dollar guitars, touring the world and living in mansions. The revolution will not be televised, it won’t be on the radio, you can’t buy it in Walmart and it’s not on stage at whatever fake festival presenting itself as the counter culture. Lee Scratch Perry on the other hand is brilliant.

98807 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Biker, 3, #485 of 1168 🔗

Biker, your musical views are spot on!

98836 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Biker, #486 of 1168 🔗

Politics aside, RATM members have been a huge disappointment during the panicdemic HOWEVER as I said yesterday, it would be nice if people would answer the question asked in the OP.

98849 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #487 of 1168 🔗

did you say something yesterday? I must have missed it. Bet it was great too. Fuck, i miss all the fun. I was busy yesterday, i watched ten episodes of the Sweeny back to back while on magic mushrooms. It’s that time of year again when mother earth gives up the magic that allows you to clean your third eye of all the debris and letting us humans know that there is more to it than we know.

98888 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Biker, #488 of 1168 🔗

Very insightful

98893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #489 of 1168 🔗

Indeed they are…

98929 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, #490 of 1168 🔗

Just combining a couple of things, I’ve got the Sweeney soudtrack CD, if that counts. Has little snippets of dialogue, too. “Put ’em away, love”.

98971 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sam Vimes, #491 of 1168 🔗

The Sweeney. Loved the programme, and also the band. Not sure if they’re still going, but I saw them live and they were great. comment image ?auto=format&fit=crop&crop=faces&w=350

98890 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 1, #492 of 1168 🔗

Agree.

I think lee scratch Perry burned down his studio so Jamaican gangsters couldn’t muscle on his music.

As always happy to be corrected.

99329 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, #493 of 1168 🔗

Yello is brilliant. Watch their Berlin Live show from 2017.

98892 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, #494 of 1168 🔗

I was born in 1977 so missed out on punk and the ethos of the younger generation sticking 2 fingers up to the establishment. All quiet during these times.

98895 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #495 of 1168 🔗

Diamanda Galas always cheers me up at times like these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEKuX8arORc

98902 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #496 of 1168 🔗

I thought my choices evidenced a breakdown in mental state but you win, Mr Dee 👏🏻

98989 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #497 of 1168 🔗

Times like these make me turn back to Joy Division, and of course the Pistols and even the Clash. Also Sonic Youth, the two albums 1987-8.

‘Wasted Life’, the lyrics, by SLF also keeps coming back to me after many, many years:

Still they come up to me
With a different name but the same old face
I can see the connection
With another time and a different place
Now, they ain’t blonde-haired or blue-eyed
But they think that they’re a master race
They’re nothing but blind fascists
Brought up to hate and given lives to waste

98991 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, #498 of 1168 🔗

Also especially the Butthole Surfers, ’22 going on 23′. Sums up the madness we are going through.

99093 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Tom Blackburn, #499 of 1168 🔗

Tom Blackburn, I’ll answer your original question now: No. But one change I have noticed, I’m having quite a lot of dreams in which I’m in a large crowd. That’s an experience we’re currently denied in real life.

98798 Silke David, 2, #500 of 1168 🔗

Just perusing the weekly PHE report for week 34. Having in recent weeks just skimmed it, as it is basically the same every week, my interested was peeked : At a local authority level, incidence remain highest in Oldham, although this has decreased from the previous week. So why have they to endure new restrictions? The government bases their policy re lockdown on this report.
The Watchlist is produced…. The classification decision is therefore a blended assessment drawing on professional judgement.
Funny that they have to mention it is professionals’ judgement. Haha.

98801 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 5, #501 of 1168 🔗

Don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet, but just seen on the dreaded MSM report of Germany staging packed concerts to investigate covid spread. This sounds encouraging, and really should have been done from the beginning, but it is not as good as it seems. They are still operating on the assumption that spread is incredibly dangerous and this must be minimised. One scenario of full crowd, sadly all masked, one with greater hygiene and some distancing and a third with 1.5m. Now surely, they should have a fourth scenario without masks, actually do a live study?? Or, what would be beneficial, have them all be healthy people, shove in a few with coronavirus, and see where they all are in a month’s time. My bet would be not many people had actually caught it, and those that had vast majority would be asymptomatic, so not ill either.

98927 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Youth_Unheard, #502 of 1168 🔗

i would do an experiment on similar medium size cities and demographics. One completely normal, one severe lockdown conditions, and a third of somewhere in between (i guess as we are now unless you’re in oldham). Then measure the results – would be interesting

98808 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #503 of 1168 🔗

Roald Dahl did not write just for children, he also wrote for adults. One of his early stories ‘Lamb to the Slaughter’ was an episode on Alfred Hitchcock Presents in 1958. Another short story was about a young German woman who was close to giving birth. The mother and father named their son Alois, last name Schicklgruber.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hitler

98930 ▶▶ dpj, replying to richard riewer, #504 of 1168 🔗

He also wrote the Bond Film ‘You Only Live Twice’. Any similarity between the villain and a certain gentleman who has invested lots of money in vaccines just a coincidence.

98813 richard riewer, 3, #505 of 1168 🔗

We are all oiseau de passage (birds of passage). Transient beings. How high do you wish to fly?

98823 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 6, #506 of 1168 🔗

For the 29th of August next Saturday I propose a symbolic Bonfire of the Smartphones. Perhaps just a few. Let the government know that if they persist in their plans to track and trace us to our dying day that we will have no option but to disable or destroy all our smartphones.

98840 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #507 of 1168 🔗

Doesn’t matter,if Bill Gates has his way we will all be chipped

98884 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #508 of 1168 🔗

Quite – his ambition used to be a computer on every desk; now it is a chip in every arm/leg/brain!

99183 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #509 of 1168 🔗

Yep. MiT have said they’ve basically now got the method, for storing your vaccination passport (or whatever they call it) in your skin now.

99330 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #510 of 1168 🔗

No smartphone, no app, no GPS, no track & trace with that method.

98828 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #511 of 1168 🔗

9 doctors speak out – they are back.

https://youtu.be/nn2P4-cK_K8

It’s a new gathering of those guys from the steps in Washington. The first speeches had 22 million views before youtube crnsored them. This is a new discussion with those doctors continuing to speak out.

One point made among many – childrens behaviour is changing.

Worth listening and sharing. They deserve supporting. Don’t let an early none second of Trump in the shows titles dissuade you, it is a great discussion.

98831 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Basics, #512 of 1168 🔗

Has anybody got a link to the original video? I saved it for later and then good old Youtube deleted it!

98853 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Arnie, 2, #513 of 1168 🔗
98881 ▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to NonCompliant, #514 of 1168 🔗

Thank you Non!

98871 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Basics, 7, #515 of 1168 🔗

Only watched the first 20 minutes so far, but the reference to the effect of Trump’s HCQ statement on the share values of Gilead (Remdesivir manufacturer) is an eye-opener… it certainly shows how much vested interest there could be in discrediting a cheap, generic drug in favour of a much more expensive one.

To be honest I was sceptical about HCQ at the start. I’m ashamed to say I believed the Lancet study and didn’t bother to look any deeper. It seemed to me (having some basic scientific knowledge, but knowing nothing of the drug’s history) that using an anti-malarial drug against a virus was pure quackery – malaria being a parasitic organism, not a bacterium or virus. Obviously I was very wrong in my assumption, but this shows how a superficial reading of the facts as presented by the media can mislead.

98883 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Drawde927, 3, #516 of 1168 🔗

I think the poison dwarf fauci has shares in Gilead.

99069 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Basics, #517 of 1168 🔗

Thanks for the post. Really worth a watch. These Docs are heroes and give me hope.

98839 Ossettian, replying to Ossettian, 9, #518 of 1168 🔗

Just had two leaflets through the door.

From Northants CC: “Cases are rising in this area and you and your community are at risk!”

From Corby BC: “DHSC has opened a local testing testing site at James Ashworth VC Square”

Helpfully, info is available in Polish, Lithuanian, Romanian and Russian.

98878 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Ossettian, 3, #519 of 1168 🔗

Martin, your post made me chuckle. The inmates are truly running the asylum now!

98925 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ossettian, 3, #520 of 1168 🔗

Would that be the same DHSC that replied to Mr. Awkward Git, saying that the PCR test doesn’t work, by any chance?

98846 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 7, #521 of 1168 🔗

I don’t know if this has been mentioned today (so many comments!), but the comments after the daily mail article mentioned by Toby (best voted) are so encouraging. All highly sceptical, the Like and (Dislike) votes of the top few comments being: 6758 (1187), 6055 (528), 4081 (364), 2861 (147), 2726 (270). Big numbers. And it’s prominently in the print version too, which a lot of people buy on Saturday for the TV listings. Just had radio 4 on (in background, totally not a fan), expert on saying wearing a mask in the home not a bad idea!

98860 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Marie R, 9, #522 of 1168 🔗

Has the thesaurus been revised – with ‘wanker’ listed with ‘expert’?

98867 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marie R, 2, #523 of 1168 🔗

Expert?
Idiot!

98904 ▶▶ annie, replying to Marie R, 2, #524 of 1168 🔗

Yes, babies, suck on your dummies.

98851 NappyFace, replying to NappyFace, 9, #525 of 1168 🔗

Lockdown is double-plus good.
We will beg our masters to lock us up longer for our own safety.
With luck, they will provide padded cells with automatically filling troughs for us. This will provide us our RDA nutrients, antibiotics and vaccines, so we won’t have to risk stepping outside or seeing other people.
We will enjoy approved entertainment.
Voting could kill us so we must stay quiet, and stay safe.

98866 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NappyFace, 3, #526 of 1168 🔗

Have you read The Machine Stops by EM Forster?

98961 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #527 of 1168 🔗

Very prophetic

98859 JustMe, replying to JustMe, 7, #528 of 1168 🔗

I have heard today of a care home for the elderly in Huddersfield that has been instructed to put Covid down as a cause of death in all correspondence relating to deaths in the home, no matter what the real cause was. Absolutely barking mad.

98877 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to JustMe, 7, #529 of 1168 🔗

Instructed by who? Not mad – evil! Have you got a link to this info please?

99074 ▶▶▶ JustMe, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #530 of 1168 🔗

I’ll be seeing them again next Saturday (weekly swabs, therefore need to be careful what I say to them) so I’ll find the name of the home then.

98864 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 24, #531 of 1168 🔗

Looking at ‘Professor’ “Trisha” Greenhalgh’s twitter feed, it seems that she and her brethren feel that the case for masks is open and shut. There is evidence that they ‘work’, apparently. But against what benchmarks do they ‘work’?

We should not be fooled into thinking that (bitter, twisted, poisonous, political) idiots like her know what ‘works’. She doesn’t. She is making some simple assumptions such as that the best outcome would be for no human to be infected by any pathogen ever, nor to spread it to any other. She also regards each human’s immune system as individual to them. But who says this is true? It seems just as likely that evolution has created a population-wide ‘immune system’ that relies on transmission of low inocula of pathogens from person to person in order to ‘stay current’ and not be surprised by a completely ‘novel’ virus (where have I heard that phrase before?).

This is why I don’t think sceptics should stoop to entering her fake argument over whether masks ‘work’ – it’s a red herring that plays into mask lunatics’ hands.

If masks ‘work’ to “Trisha’s” criteria, and she gets her way and makes all the people who bullied her at school (and everyone else) wear masks at all times, forever, then we will eventually be in that position of the remote Brazilian tribe that was killed by the common cold.

We should be arguing on those terms, as well as the fundamental civil liberties arguments. It is not for narrow ‘experts’ to determine what the immune system means , and what it is for . Why did our faces evolve with the layout they did? Maybe no one knows the answer. Certainly not her!

98870 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #532 of 1168 🔗

I’ve been trying to work out the various psychological pathologies that seem to be at work amongst this group of ‘expert’ ‘scientists’ that clearly are neither, but whose role seems to be to actually deny any known scientific evidence in a manner reminiscent of the most scientifically illiterate in society.

98909 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 8, #533 of 1168 🔗

She’s from the far Left. Supports BLM.
The far left are reality and science deniers. Whatever science and reality tells us to do, they’ll do the opposite.

99047 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to RickH, #534 of 1168 🔗

I suspect it sometimes has to do with that filthy lucre stuff.

98891 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #535 of 1168 🔗

Yes absolutely it is population wide. We’ve evolved to live together and with viruses.

98916 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to guy153, 4, #536 of 1168 🔗

And we can regard the layout of our faces as part of this population-wide immune system. And also our instinctive reaction to covering the face (discomfort, the compulsion to remove the obstruction). And also our compulsion to associate with other humans at close quarters – it has all evolved in parallel.

She thinks she is superior to evolution. She thinks that she can just say “It’s common sense, innit? Duh” and that makes it so. She thinks that just because doctors and nurses have always worn masks without obvious problems, then it can simply be scaled to the entire population and everything will be OK. (And we can guess that her true motivation is probably not even medical – it’s power, revenge on those bullies, etc.)

98901 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #537 of 1168 🔗

Did she evolve?

98907 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #538 of 1168 🔗

Trisha Greenhalgh 😷 #BlackLivesMatter
@trishgreenhalgh

I think that says it all. She’s another on the far left, who seem to reveal in imposing as much control over the population as possible, in her particular case, face muzzles.

Meanwhile, over in the U.S., far left Democrat governor of Maine, Janet Mills, orders restaurant staff to wear dog cones of shame…:

https://www.corona-stocks.com/maine-governor-orders-restaurant-staff-to-wear-covid-visors-like-dog-cones/?amp
comment image ?fit=800%2C420&ssl=1

98958 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Lms23, 2, #539 of 1168 🔗

Looks like the thing they put on dogs to stop them biting their stitches.
Someone somewhere must be having a bet thinking what is the most ridiculous thing we can get people to wear.Might explain Bill Gates perma smirk

99215 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #540 of 1168 🔗

Looks like the thing they put on dogs to stop them biting their stitches.

We could call them dog cones …

99038 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Lms23, #541 of 1168 🔗

I thought they were modern slave collars the Dems wantes servers to wear as the servers are disproportionately BAME

99331 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lms23, #542 of 1168 🔗

Looks like some of the dogs that I see trotting along the sidewalks of Montreal.

98876 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #543 of 1168 🔗

Following a hunch about the local mockdowns targeting Labour councils.
Have a look at this map:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48091592

98880 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #544 of 1168 🔗

I like ‘mockdowns’!

98886 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, #545 of 1168 🔗

Does Westminster decide on whether a place gets ‘locked down’ or not, or does the local council?

98889 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #546 of 1168 🔗

I think Westminster and the local council need to keep a close eye on Twitter to actually find out about it.

98977 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #547 of 1168 🔗

Westminster – but certainly Preston was sufficiently scared of a full lockdown to put itself into a modified one – just to show what a compliant little town it is.

The threat from HMG is obviously serious – look how the Aberdeen council is protesting but having to obey.

98879 RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #548 of 1168 🔗

Nothing really new. But I’ve just been looking at the latest bulletin ONS Covid Infection Survey.

Now – given that this survey is based on to any bit of errant RNA showing up as being possibly related to infection, it is interesting – particularly if you are stifling yourself with a mask – to consider whether such hysteria is useful in a situation where you would have to kiss/shake hands with a random 2,200 people to come across such an RNA fragment – let alone a case of infection.

Just saying.

98885 ▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, #549 of 1168 🔗

Isn’t it 2200 new infections per day, but about 10x that as the absolute number? I haven’t looked at the latest version but that’s about what it was the last time. Still very little of course and nothing to be concerned about.

98894 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, #550 of 1168 🔗

No – that’s another number. I quote :

“An estimated 24,600 people (95% credible interval: 16,900 to 33,800) within the community population in England had the coronavirus (COVID-19) during the most recent week, from 7 to 13 August 2020, equating to around 1 in 2,200 individuals.”

It’s interesting to speculate what is the real incidence of infectious disease.

98914 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, #551 of 1168 🔗

Yes see what you mean. 1 in 2200.

98906 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 14, #552 of 1168 🔗

I had an asymptomatic cold last week. Well, I think I did.

98926 ▶▶ Phoneutria, replying to Tenchy, 2, #553 of 1168 🔗

If you did, then you had a Covid Virus. All Covids end up as a cold variant. How long though?

98937 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Tenchy, 6, #554 of 1168 🔗

I had a cough earlier to-day, but it seems to have gone away now 🙂 I think the red wine has helped!

98982 ▶▶▶ John, replying to Edna, 3, #555 of 1168 🔗

God’s vaccine.

99111 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Edna, 2, #556 of 1168 🔗

I find a vodka tonic with extra strength Advil very medicinal. Red wine is good too!

99129 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Edna, #557 of 1168 🔗

I know someone who claims he cured his meningitis with a pint of wine.

99135 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sophie123, 1, #558 of 1168 🔗

Always works for me. If I’m feeling a bit peaky, I go out and get properly tanked up and the next day I’m fine. Works for toothache too.

98955 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tenchy, 9, #559 of 1168 🔗

I have a suspician that I’ve been asymptomatically sick most of my life.

98912 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 4, #560 of 1168 🔗

As COVID-1984 Accelerates Bill Gates Blames ‘Freedom’ For Spread of the Virus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM15RnElRfg

98973 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #561 of 1168 🔗

Chilling stuff!

99591 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #562 of 1168 🔗

Tell Bill to stay home.

98921 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #563 of 1168 🔗

https://forecasters.org/wp-content/uploads/Ioannidisetal_03082020-1.pdf

Forecasting for COVID-19 has failed
New article by Ioannnidis

“We need models which incorporate multicriteria objective functions. Isolating infectious impact, from all other health, economic and social impacts is dangerously narrow-minded. More importantly, with epidemics becoming easier to detect, opportunities for declaring global emergencies will escalate. Erroneous models can become powerful, recurrent disruptors of life on this planet. Civilization is threatened from epidemic incidentalomas.”

98931 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to swedenborg, 1, #564 of 1168 🔗

Never heard the term “incidentaloma” before! After Googling I found it does have a specific medical meaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidental_imaging_finding , but it immediately struck me as a good term for the current situation – a malignant, metastasising “incident”.

Looks like an interesting article, will have a read of it tomorrow.

98938 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to swedenborg, 5, #565 of 1168 🔗

“Failure in epidemic forecasting is an old problem. In fact it is surprising that epidemic forecasting has retained much credibility among decision-makers given its dubious track record”. John Ioannadis

You mean we keep making the same mistakes over and over again but expect different outcomes? Crap in-crap out springs to mind.

99066 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Margaret, #566 of 1168 🔗

Or the over used definition of insanity!

DavidC

99594 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Margaret, #567 of 1168 🔗

Like throwing dice.

98942 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 2, #568 of 1168 🔗

Quite a good archly respectful put-down of Taleb in there. This is the guy who’s always going on about “fat-tailed distributions” and has recently taken to sniping at Levitt and Balloux (and no doubt others) on Twitter.

His argument doesn’t deserve the attention Ioannidis gives it.

98966 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 3, #569 of 1168 🔗

Taleb I think has been perhaps the greatest disappointment in all this for me. The ultimate confirmation of the fact that once fear stops you from using your reason properly, no amount of intelligence or education is of any use.

99102 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Mark, 1, #570 of 1168 🔗

Agreed. I was shocked at his perspective.

98968 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, 3, #571 of 1168 🔗

‘Taleb seems to fit an unorthodox model, and then abandons all effort to predict anything. He simply assumes doomsday has come, much like a panic-driven Roman would have done in the Antonine plague, lacking statistical, biological, and epidemiological insights’

That is some put-down!

98983 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #572 of 1168 🔗

It is, and also extremely accurate. Taleb meanwhile is calling people names on Twitter.

99017 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, 2, #573 of 1168 🔗

Possible explanation – the fund he advises (managed by Mark Spitznagel) was up 4000% in Q1, but suspect, unless it closed the short, it has now disappeared into thin air? Pride before a fall!

98992 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 9, #574 of 1168 🔗

I have been thinking about how the Imperial College group got away with, on top of the rickety programming and the unlikely high end ifr figure, the bland SIR assumption of full susceptibility.

The latter, it now seems, is likely to have been the most dramatic error in their work.

Those of us outside the field have had to learn about all this on the fly, in response to the attempt to use epidemiology to justify gross interference with all our lives. Now it seems absurd that figures based on such frankly silly ideas could be taken seriously, or that policy could be based on the conclusions of scientists who are known to be willing to accept orders of magnitude overstatement to avoid the risk of the slightest understatement.

Why was this not pointed out immediately and forcefully, at the highest levels, at the time? Why were those who did point these things out ignored? Why were all outlets quoting the IC figures not immediately discredited?

Has there ever been an epidemic that followed the plain SIR assumption, or even approached it?

We apparently, according to Wittkowski, per Wodarg, knew then that “coronaviruses typically top out at 20-30%”. Why was this not factored into the calculations to produce, as Ioannidis suggests, a range of forecasts with the plain sir figure the absolute top end, and the 20% “typical” coronavirus prevalence at the bottom end, along with more plausible ifr numbers?

And why, given that the consequences of widespread panic were eminently foreseeable at the time, are the IC team not held responsible for their work in the same way someone is held responsible for shouting fire unnecessarily in a crowded theatre?

99026 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Mark, 1, #575 of 1168 🔗

Well said. Totally agree.

99033 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 1, #576 of 1168 🔗

Good analysis Mark. Your final point is vey well made, why indeed? The longer-term consequences will play out in one of two extremes; governments will find it all too easy to lock down on a whim or, will be too terrified by the damage done this time they will allow a fire to spiral dangerously out of control for want of sensible preventative measures.

99127 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Mark, 1, #577 of 1168 🔗

I had been wondering this too. Since March & the data from the Diamond Princess.

The one thing that makes me question myself a bit though are the reports of antibody testing showing certain areas (Bergamo I think, if I recall correctly) far higher than the 20% or so reported elsewhere. How do we explain those data?

99262 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sophie123, #578 of 1168 🔗

Yes there are a few areas where very high prevalences are reported (New York I think was one as well). The best explanations I’ve seen are overshoot (though for very high prevalence that seems unlikely to account for it entirely), and the fact that it’s an overall average and not a hard or universal limit, so there can easily be particular populations that have different levels of existing resistance or much higher herd immunity levels for social or other reasons.

But we are a long way from certainty on any of this. My point above is that there was no honest assessment of the lower limits of the potential outcomes, to contrast with the maximal cases that were considered.

99362 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sophie123, #579 of 1168 🔗

Bergamo was interesting. The only published study I’ve seen is this one:

https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.05.24.20111245

Look at figure 1 on page 16 with those pie charts. Antibodies are blue. At first you think this was a nosocomial outbreak in one or two hospitals (and it may well have been) but they reported that admin staff and people who were working from home were equally affected. But perhaps they were visiting each other anyway.

Another interesting thing is how few people were asymptomatic. Perhaps these are pockets of places with less or different cross-immunity for some reason. Or perhaps higher viral loads due to one or two individual spreading events.

This only shows 43%, and that’s using >12 AU/mL as the threshold, when the threshold (they say) is supposed to be 15. I’ve seen figures of 50% or 60% is the MSM but have not found where these came from.

It’s difficult to believe that actual community prevalence would be so unevenly distributed. But read the paper and draw your own conclusions and let us know what you think.

It’s also very hard to compare an antibody survey done in Italy, say, with one done in Spain or the UK, or India. You don’t know exactly what antibodies they’re looking for or what the threshold of the test is. Some antibodies drop more quickly than others, e.g. Spain were looking for N antibodies, which drop very quickly. The tests may be confused differently by people whose “choice” of antibodies are affected by differing levels of cross-immunity from recent HCoVs. Spain and the UK certainly didn’t get round until doing their antibody surveys until several months after the epidemic. But in Geneva they didn’t get much above 20% in spite of timing it right.

99472 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 1, #580 of 1168 🔗

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/15/new-data-on-t-cells-and-the-coronavirus

This is an interesting article but more interesting are the comments. A bit more civilised discussion between scientists discussing the difficulties to combine the finding of Bergamo and the 20% herd immunity due to T cells. In one of the arguments about this and the Bergamo finding Marko quotes the Iquitos study Peru with 75 % seropos.

https://lifeinperu.com/2020/07/24/iquitos-peru-possibly-the-first-region-with-demonstrated-herd-immunity-covid-19/

He finds it reckless to rely on T cells immunity with these findings and recommend reopening.

The interesting is the response 29 July by Riah which I find persuasive but I might be biased.

99972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #581 of 1168 🔗

Yes that Riah guy seems to know what he’s talking about.

I think it’s a big stretch to argue from one or two pockets that you should expect that seroprevalence everywhere measured by different groups with different tests which are by their nature indirect measurements of actual exposure.

102108 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to guy153, #582 of 1168 🔗

Thanks both. You probably won’t see my response now as the discussion has moved on so much, but just in case I think there are 2 possibilities (and truth may be a combo of the two):

1) That Riah guy’s argument is sensible – it makes sense that there would be a natural variation T cell response, though it still seems rather TOO varied to be the complete picture to me….unless it’s dependent on recent prior infection with a common or garden coronavirus? If say OC43 had ripped through your community in March 2019, you might be fine with this new one?

2) the antibody studies are not standardised, right? I don’t think we are necessarily comparing like with like. Some include IgA, some don’t. Threshold levels are different, etc.

Probably a mix of the two.

98924 Sue, replying to Sue, 8, #583 of 1168 🔗

Sad to see another business go into administration, STA Travel. I worked for them for a while in the early 90s after returning from backpacking around the world for a couple of years. I guess it was tough business environment without this shambles but feel for those now unemployed – another nail in the coffin – sad times 🙁

99112 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sue, 5, #584 of 1168 🔗

Sadly I think there will be many more travel businesses going soon especially with ATOL renewals in September. Some household names I expect too.

98932 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #585 of 1168 🔗

Oh no!! There’s another new disease! It’s so new, it’s not in the news yet, but we’re gonna need a complete lockdown, look:

  • There are around 367,000 new cancer cases in the UK every year, that’s around 1,000 every day (2015-2017).
  • In females in the UK, there were more than 179,000 new cancer cases in 2017.
  • In males in the UK, there were around 187,000 new cancer cases in 2017.
  • Every two minutes someone in the UK is diagnosed with cancer.

Or perhaps we should ignore it, cos we’re busy just now…

99049 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #586 of 1168 🔗

Cancer is no longer being diagnosed every two minutes because no health care is being administered. When you stop diagnosing it, it disappears right? Think how many lives will be saved by not diagnosing or treating anything! Soon all deaths will be Covid deaths because we will have “eradicated” everything else.

99057 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #587 of 1168 🔗

Totally true Lisa, lost one friend so far to cancer, another has missed months of treatment and is now at end of life… So very bitter about this.

99109 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Arnie, 1, #588 of 1168 🔗

As we all should be. Where is the outrage? I also like to point out to the Covid obsessed that the 3rd leading cause of death in the US is medical error — to the tune of 250k deaths PER YEAR. My new theory is that there are so many medical errors because doctors wears masks and can’t think straight due to lack of oxygen. I’m sort of kidding, but if there’s a modicum of truth to it we’re in for a huge spike in deaths related to medical error. My husband has had his hernia repair put off, but it’s non-emergency. But his experience makes me outraged and sad for those who aren’t getting treated for acute, time-sensitive illnesses. And yet we’re the selfish granny killers? Give me strength.

99619 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sam Vimes, #589 of 1168 🔗

This article is a good example of the way stats are presented. Every two minutes would equate to 720 people diagnosed per day. If you multiply 365 x 720 you don’t get anywhere near 367,000.

98933 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 9, #590 of 1168 🔗

Fredie Blom: ‘World’s oldest man’ dies aged 116 in South Africa
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53875675

BBC has to mention Coronavirus even in this article:

“Mr Naidoo said the family did not believe his death was related to Covid-19.”

98941 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mr Dee, 10, #591 of 1168 🔗

Not related to COVID-19? Well it may well have been related to the bizarre South African lockdown:

(my emphasis)

Although he gave up drinking many years ago, he was a regular smoker .

However, a coronavirus-related lockdown imposed by the South African government reportedly meant he was unable to buy tobacco to roll his own cigarettes on his 116th birthday.”

At 116 years old and he’s suddenly deprived of his (almost) life-long fix of nicotine?

98943 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Tenchy, 3, #592 of 1168 🔗

The South African government and, indeed, governments around the world (except Sweden’s) have an awful lot to answer for. My sincere hope is that they are held to account for all this.

99095 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Edna, 2, #593 of 1168 🔗

They will be. Sooner or later, there will be a reckoning.

98948 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Tenchy, 2, #594 of 1168 🔗

Especially considering smoking is protective against Covid!

99098 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, #595 of 1168 🔗

Sort of smoking related then?

99622 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, 1, #596 of 1168 🔗

Still smoking at the age of 116, eh? Tee hee hee.

98947 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #597 of 1168 🔗

Ffs shock horror,116 y o man died and Covid 19 not suspected

98963 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #598 of 1168 🔗

What other possible reason could there be?

98936 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 21, #599 of 1168 🔗

Very clever analogy by Francois Balloux

“>1M mostly healthy people are killed on the world’s roads each year. There’s no call for ‘zero risk’, and road safety measures aim to minimise harm while allowing for the seamless flow of people/goods. Pre C-19 epidemiology felt similarly pragmatic and non-ideological to me.”

 Pre C-19 epidemiology was normal epidemiology even WHO did not ever recommended lockdowns in Oct 2019. There is no Swedish model. They were just doing what the whole world was doing until Jan. The lockdown experiment was a Chinese invention spread as fast as the pandemic

98939 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to swedenborg, 17, #600 of 1168 🔗

Exactly. As one commentator put it, “the only reason we have a lockdown is international peer pressure”. The Chinese started it, swiftly followed by the Italians due to their inability to manage the care home situation. The rest of the world, with some notable exceptions, felt obliged to follow. There was no hard scientific basis for any of it.

99029 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to swedenborg, 1, #601 of 1168 🔗

The Chinese relaxed it after a month … we should have, too.

99036 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to PastImperfect, 5, #602 of 1168 🔗

What still mystifies me is how it didn’t spread all over China. Where were the bodies all over Beijing and Shanghai? I know the government stopped domestic flights in and out of Wuhan (while allowing international flights to continue) but it makes no sense that the virus didn’t spread all over China and result in thousands or tens of thousands more deaths. Hmmmm…

99077 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #603 of 1168 🔗

Strange

99082 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #604 of 1168 🔗

Well obviously it did just spread all over China.

99088 ▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to guy153, #605 of 1168 🔗

Not the death toll…

99097 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to BJJ, 1, #606 of 1168 🔗

Only 4634 total deaths??? Canada has twice as many and a population of 38 million vs. 1.4 billion. Look at China on Worldometers — virtually no cases after early March and deaths almost non-existent after they revised in their numbers in mid-April. 3 deaths per million population? 22 new cases today? Makes no sense.

99118 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #607 of 1168 🔗

could it be a lab made virus that only effects non Chinese people?

99624 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, #608 of 1168 🔗

There were very few deaths in Vietnam. It’s possible that Asians are less susceptible to viruses like Covid-19.

99121 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #609 of 1168 🔗

Maybe it was all theatre in the first place or maybe they found a cheap and easy way to deal with it. But then didn’t tell the rest of us. And their economy is open. Western economies are toast.

Wuhan was a restive region before the lockdown with several anti government protest relating to air quality. Then there was the lockdown.

Also they don’t have a gurning megalomaniac who has bought all of the decision making institutions.

99625 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DespairSquid, #610 of 1168 🔗

Red Dwarf fan?

99203 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #611 of 1168 🔗

Maybe they don’t record deaths the same way we do. Maybe they do post mortems. Maybe someone with C19 who suffers a heart attack and dies is not recorded as a Covid death. Maybe they realised the test is bogus. Who knows?

Their government may have lied to keep their figures low. Our government however has lied to inflate the figures.

China already has a population under control so they don’t need to use a virus for unscrupulous purposes. We however needed fear to control the masses.

The sad fact is, there is no truth anymore, both here and in the far east.

99627 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Howie59, #612 of 1168 🔗

Maybe they destroyed (cremated) the evidence?

99168 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BJJ, 1, #613 of 1168 🔗

I assume they just decided enough was enough and took the Covid box off the form. Job done.

99623 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #614 of 1168 🔗

It spread all over the world but not in China. Yeah, sure. All those people who celebrated the New Year in Wuhan were not all residents of Wuhan. Where did they go and what did they take with them?

98940 mwhite, 1, #615 of 1168 🔗
98950 Hoppy Uniatz, 7, #616 of 1168 🔗

So this afternoon I revisited the leafy purlieus of Knightsbridge. I was disappointed to see a slight increase in mask wearing from a month ago, perhaps one in eight people in the street, traffic in shops looks up a bit but still very quiet, though lots of people seemed to be going in to Harrods, and I wondered if they were going to buy Louis Vuitton face masks as a bit of relatively inexpensive designer virtue signalling. A depressing thought.

Interestingly, many people were quite badly dressed, and I suspect they just haven’t really bought new clothes this year. This includes myself by the way.

Cutting down behind the Brompton Road, I found the road blocked by police incident tape and a policewoman redirecting pedestrians. “There’s a man with mental health issues, he’s threatening to jump.”
Hoppy (chattily) “I expect you must see a lot of that sort of thing at the moment!”
Policewoman (looking taken aback and a bit affronted) “No.”
Hoppy (thinks) I bet they have to say that .
It took a couple of streets of detour before I realised I was whistling the old Derek and Clive “jump into this blanket that we are holding, And you’ll be quite all right.”

98953 Mark II, 8, #617 of 1168 🔗

Today was good. Went into shop (m&s at a petrol station) for first time since mask law, no mask and no one said anything. Woman before went in no mask too and guy behind didn’t bother with his once he saw us.

Also played in a inter squad football tournament which was good, got talking to 2 strong sceptics. There was about 100 people there, no distancing, no masks, people happy with post game handshakes etc no one gave a shit at all, was wonderful. The club house was being a cunt and making ppl mask up to go in which some reluctantly did. I did suggest just saying exempt but was interesting that got sort of snorted at as petty and unacceptable. This was from people who fully hated masks and didn’t believe they worked for a second, but also didn’t want to ‘lie’ to not wear one.

Overall tho, a great day with normal socialising and broke my no mask shop virginity.

98957 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #618 of 1168 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53877292 WHO now states all children over 12 should wear masks, children between 6 & 12 may need to wear them. Children under 6 shouldn’t normally wear them.

98959 ▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, 8, #619 of 1168 🔗

Swine.

98987 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to annie, 4, #620 of 1168 🔗

I was trying to find a succinct phrase to convey my feelings Annie,but I think you already nailed it !.

99629 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #621 of 1168 🔗

Flu.

98965 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to p02099003, 5, #622 of 1168 🔗

What a gift to the teaching unions and a disaster for our children.

98976 ▶▶ DomW, replying to p02099003, 7, #623 of 1168 🔗

And here we are:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8szNPgrEs

“If you tolerate this, then your children will be next”

99011 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to DomW, 1, #624 of 1168 🔗

Thanks. Played this on repeat one evening a couple of months ago in light of current craziness. A few refreshing drinks had been consumed! Top tune,

99628 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to p02099003, #625 of 1168 🔗

What’s the cutoff age for the category ‘children’?

98960 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 7, #626 of 1168 🔗

So my moronic other half just came out with this: Carl Henegan clearly is not a world class scientist because he is not on SAGE. He obviously doesn’t know what he is talking about. I think I want a divorce. Seriously. 🙁

98967 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to HelzBelz, 7, #627 of 1168 🔗

It should be the other way round – Carl Henegan is the world class scientist. Those on SAGE on the other hand……

98972 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #628 of 1168 🔗

Leftovers. Couldn’t find a job anywhere else.

99034 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, 1, #629 of 1168 🔗

Exactly!

98975 ▶▶ Bella, replying to HelzBelz, #630 of 1168 🔗

You should. That can’t last

99023 ▶▶ Mark, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #631 of 1168 🔗

Stick at it. He’ll come around. In the end there’ll be precious few who won’t claim to have been agin it all from the start…

99030 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #632 of 1168 🔗

My other half is on the same page (but not as militant as I am) and it’s been stressful on our marriage — mostly because I’m so unhappy and he’s doing all the shopping because I can tolerate mask wearing. We’ve been married 33 years and together over 6 years before that. If he thought any of this was OK I’m not sure we could live in the same house together!

99051 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #633 of 1168 🔗

However, Neil Ferguson is on the SAGE panel is (he of the ‘accurate’ modelling history), as is Dido Harding (graduated in philosophy, politics and economics – obviously a world class scientist!).

DavidC

99141 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #634 of 1168 🔗

There’s world class and then there’s being in the pocket of the same people who our politicians and governments are in the pocket of.

99209 ▶▶ RickH, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #635 of 1168 🔗

This shitshow has caused tensions throughout society – another mark of the pure evil being done.

Even in my family, where we are all in basic agreement, there are differences about the degree of seriousness and the approach to dealing with it. I had a heated argument yesterday when I said that I sometimes feel like August Landmesser (the guy who didn’t salute Hitler in that famous photograph) – overwhelmed by the unthinking compliance.

I think we (the non-compliant) have to be the adults in the room and recognise the psychological strain that is induced in people by this brainwashing. It’s not enough to just condemn.

98962 ScooBieDee, replying to ScooBieDee, #636 of 1168 🔗

Sir Mark Walport and all these other public health boffins. What an easy job when your main key performance indicator is that reality is never as bad as your prediction !!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53875189

98970 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to ScooBieDee, 4, #637 of 1168 🔗

Indeed. Yet they are gleefully going all out to shape a future that surely we cannot want. Heard a public health ‘expert’ on the radio earlier saying how wonderful wearing masks outside our homes forever will be because it will protect us from all viruses, pollution and hayfever. Nearly drove into a ditch, but remembered I could not allow myself to be recorded as another covid death.

99056 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #638 of 1168 🔗

Forigive my language but how any so-called public health ‘expert’ can come out with inaccurate twaddle like that just shows what a fuckwit he or she is. I cannot believe that someone said that – unfortunately I know someone did.

DavidC

98964 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 1, #639 of 1168 🔗

Bozo has cut short his holiday in Scotland because of security risks-a bit like those who have had to come back early from France, Austria, Croatia etc but it’s not fair-HE won’t have to quarantine.

99032 ▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to Margaret, 1, #640 of 1168 🔗

Isn’t he in Greece for his dad’s 80th birthday? It was on the 18th.

99187 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 2, #641 of 1168 🔗

I’m surprised the SNP Gestapo let him in there. Trailing clouds of Covid as all English visitors do.

99198 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to annie, 1, #642 of 1168 🔗

They might have assigned him to perpetual quarantine. 🙂

99016 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella, 4, #644 of 1168 🔗

Respect to the Irish. “Facts over Fiction” and “Freedom over Fear”, and not a face nappy in sight.

99024 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bella, 2, #645 of 1168 🔗

Excellent. Heart warming to see. I’d have been there if able to. Wish I could go to the one in London next week.

99042 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Bella, 2, #646 of 1168 🔗

Yes and Prof Dolores Cahill leading the cause!

99636 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to ScooBieDee, #647 of 1168 🔗
99081 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Bella, #648 of 1168 🔗

Unfortunately, I was unaware that this was taking place (don’t do social media), otherwise I’d have been there.

98979 Paul, replying to Paul, 9, #649 of 1168 🔗

I wonder when the mothership is coming back to pick us sane ones up ?,seriously though after today’s short shopping trip I really am convinced we are a different species to the covidphiles.Earlier in the week there was a few more un-muzzled around here but that small piece of optimism has been reversed today,I would say compliance must be back at around 98%,more morons walking the streets well away from the shops muzzled up aswell.There seems to be many more dirty looks being given to those without masks,no-one said anything but the looks said it all,one woman gave my wife a particularly long and nasty glare,I thought ‘come on then you sour faced bitch,say something’ but she just scuttled off.Almost all shop staff are pleasant and seem to enjoy talking to someone without a mask.Morrisons were playing a new message that said please wear a face covering but I’m fairly sure it didn’t mention exemptions or ask for respect toward those without masks.
I have been quite despairing today,I got to the point where I just had to get away from all of the zombies and get home.It was very disheartening to see people putting masks on and off like it was second nature,they act as if it was normal and something they have been doing all of their lives,it is going to take one hell of a miracle to end this madness.

98984 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Paul, 6, #650 of 1168 🔗

This is a morality play at the beginning of the 3rd decade of the 21st Century.

99028 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Paul, 5, #651 of 1168 🔗

I hear you. The compliance and apparent normalcy of the maskers is very disheartening. I just got back to my 60-acre haven after a week in the city. The relief is palpable. I go out as little as possible because I, too, become physically ill seeing people masked up. My husband does all the shopping so I’m able to keep away from it most of the time. We all need to do whatever we can to stay sane, and for me it’s staying away from people. It is, indeed, going to take a miracle.

99079 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Paul, 3, #652 of 1168 🔗

“I wonder when the mothership is coming back to pick us sane ones up ?”

Agreed. Notwithstanding that I am an atheist, part of me keeps wondering is this some sort of test to determine the people who can think from those who can’t.

99247 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ewan Duffy, #653 of 1168 🔗

ET 101 is an excellent book, for anyone who hasn’t read it.

98981 richard riewer, 3, #654 of 1168 🔗

More people are being tested, so more cases are being discovered. Mostly asymptomatic, but that doesn’t matter. It’s the numbers that count. Even if they are skewed. For all we know, all of us have the Covid-19 virus and we’ve had it for years. It is just being detected now. According to Sherri Tenpenny corona viruses of different kinds have been around for at least 60 years. It’s all BULLSHIT!
On August 29, 2020 I suggest that we all turn off our smartphones for at least 24 hours..

98988 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #655 of 1168 🔗

On Saturday, Greater Manchester police tweeted: “Please do not call 101 or 999 for clarification on covid-19 regulations.”

Hahaha!

98994 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #656 of 1168 🔗

Please do. Swamp their lines.

98997 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #657 of 1168 🔗

Call them. RoboCalls. Nonstop. 24 hours a day.

99001 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #658 of 1168 🔗

Just asked my wife to pass me the phone…

98993 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #659 of 1168 🔗

My smartphone’s internet connection was disconnected almost three months ago. Since then I use it to download photos, pdfs, videos and music. I have a home PC so I don’t really need that internet connection anymore. Just imagine if millions of people around the world turned off their smartphones for a long period of time?

99006 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to richard riewer, 1, #660 of 1168 🔗

Snap. Liberating isn’t it?

98995 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #661 of 1168 🔗

They’ve got a week to sort this out. What a farce!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/22/shortage-of-6000-public-buses-puts-uks-school-return-at-risk

Ministers have privately warned of a shortage of 6,000 public buses needed to get children to school in England next week ….
Fears that many of the 750,000 children who travel to school by public buses will not be able to make it to classrooms were raised at a meeting chaired by Charlotte Vere, the transport minister.

99105 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #662 of 1168 🔗

Oh you’ve got to just laugh haven’t you. Maybe they’ll return to school transport as before but call them bubble buses.

99184 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #663 of 1168 🔗

Heard some drivers talking about our designated school buses.
Apparently soc dis. means that the max. number of kids allowed on a 52-seater bus will be nine.

99193 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #664 of 1168 🔗

This is where the snowball of hysteria gets you – rolled over by the monster you created.

98996 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #665 of 1168 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53875189 does this mean permanent lockdown?

99004 ▶▶ matt, replying to p02099003, 6, #666 of 1168 🔗

For. Crying. Out. Loud. Yes. Yes, it will be with us forever. Now sod off and leave us alone.

(For the avoidance of doubt – not directed at you, p02

99020 ▶▶ NappyFace, replying to p02099003, 1, #667 of 1168 🔗

I hope so. Then we will be extra safe. No accidents, no colds or flu, no STD’s. We can all stay at home for ever. That’s what we voted for. We’ve got our freedom back.

99065 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to p02099003, #668 of 1168 🔗

No. Civilisation would collapse.

99101 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to p02099003, #669 of 1168 🔗

I don’t like the bit about “vaccination at regular intervals”. Apparently the Spanish flu was some type of vaccine experiment hence the deaths. I’m sure I saw that on Plandemic. Anyone else heard that?

99106 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Country Mumkin, #670 of 1168 🔗

_Very_ dubious about that.

99190 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, -1, #671 of 1168 🔗

There has been as much damage done to real science and decision making by such idiots than could be achieved by a lifetime of reading The Sun.

98998 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #672 of 1168 🔗

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1

This article was produced preprint in June now published .

 SARS-CoV-2-specific T-cell epitopes enabled detection of post-infectious T-cell immunity, even in seronegative convalescents. Cross-reactive SARS-CoV-2 T-cell epitopes revealed preexisting T-cell responses in 81% of unexposed individuals, and validation of similarity to common cold human coronaviruses provided a functional basis for postulated heterologous immunity in SARS-CoV-2 infection

99008 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to swedenborg, #673 of 1168 🔗

I always get a but suspicious when there are three pages of authors.

99009 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to p02099003, #674 of 1168 🔗

Bit not but

99188 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, #675 of 1168 🔗

Let’s keep it simple : just look at the death data.

98999 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #676 of 1168 🔗

Lowdown on today’s adventures:

Went out with Mr Bart and was proudly wearing my Carl Vernon Man to Sheep t-shirt. I noticed that those who were muzzled were not looking at my unmuzzled face but was rather drawn to my exemption lanyard and t-shirt.

We went to Osterley which we had to book by phone (given we’re Art Fund members), house was closed but gardens were open so we had a nice time exploring them. Apart from the “please keep to 2 metres” sign there was nothing about one way systems and it was refreshingly normal. The staff who checked our tickets were nice and welcoming.

It was a very different story in the cafe – rather dystopian and depressing with the “please wear a muzzle” sign (didn’t wear one and I was the only unmuzzled customer which surprised the staff behind the counter), ludicrous one way system and hazard tape all around. Bought 2 coffees and when I took out my loyalty card to have it stamped, the server refused to stamp it and asked me if I wanted my receipt instead so I can have it stamped when I return. I wasn’t in the mood to quibble so I agreed.

What in God’s name was going on there? Surely one does not get a virus by merely putting a stamp onto some card? How the heck have the populace regressed into quivering wrecks?

We ended out visit going for a walk along the free park outside the house – again refreshingly normal.There was a children’s class going on conducted by British Canoeing and I was gladdened by the sight of instructors and children just getting on with their lessons – no mask, no antisocial distancing, nothing untoward.

99018 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #677 of 1168 🔗

That T-shirt will be my next purchase methinks…

Glad your visit ended on an uplifting note.

Not much of an adventure for me today, but ventured into Chester for 20 minutes to pick up my stepson. Not so much a sea of masks on the main street, more like small lakes of them, which was encouraging (I didn’t inside any shops though).

It was my stepson’s first foray into England to go shopping sans muzzle – I asked him if he found his exemption card useful. Said he never had to use it. Just walked into the shops hassle-free.

99040 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #678 of 1168 🔗

Thanks. Mr Bart thinks I should complain about the cafe’s bizarre refusal to stamp my card.

I’ve not had a problem going into shops muzzle free but I wear my lanyard on public transport.

99044 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #679 of 1168 🔗

Yes, I would complain. Odd behaviour! Insulting, really.

99050 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mr Dee, #680 of 1168 🔗

Will have to compose a letter. I find myself writing a lot of complaint letters lately.

Not to mention that I suspect that the two staff members were talking about me unmuzzled.

Or probably attracted to my t-shirt 😉

99062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #681 of 1168 🔗

I’ll be meeting the gentleman from whom you purchased that T-shirt in person in October – No Sheep Allowed tour. I shall report back to this site how it all went…

99091 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mr Dee, #682 of 1168 🔗

That’s fantastic. Should look if they’re still tickets available.

99005 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #683 of 1168 🔗

https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1297216829534769152/photo/1

This compare hospitalisations for C-19 in New York etc with the Southern states with a later peek in summer.Texas Florida California each now has more cases than New York but lower hospitalisations markedly and lower deaths. What has happened? Better treatment? Less virulent virus?

99012 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to swedenborg, #684 of 1168 🔗

Possibly both, but also more testing of general population and a younger, healthier cohort testing ‘positive’ I would imagine.

99054 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Chris Hume, #685 of 1168 🔗

And elderly better protected than in New York

99013 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to swedenborg, 2, #686 of 1168 🔗

No returning Covid positive old people to care homes and no ventilators, for starters. Could also be it’s become less virulent.

99186 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #687 of 1168 🔗

The focus on ventilators was a massive (and lethal) mistake – not a missed opportunity.

99021 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to swedenborg, #688 of 1168 🔗

How does this compare with the profiles for the different latitudes suggested by Hope-Simpson in his book “The transmission of epidemic influenza “

99064 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to p02099003, #689 of 1168 🔗
99060 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to swedenborg, 1, #690 of 1168 🔗

I do think that is is now quite important to differentiate between any findings of SARS-Cov-2 virus and any cases of Covid 19 disease. I do get the feeling that findings of the virus are now running ahead of Covid 19 disease cases? Have others picked up on this trend?

Could be many reasons but I do hope that we are seeing the virus run out of steam as far as causing Covid 19 disease is concerned.

99083 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Steve Martindale, #691 of 1168 🔗

This blog holds that distinction as the key way in which the whole issue is creating what we see now. It’s excellent writing

“Here is a fundamental truth about Covid-19: unless a person has developed pneumonia in relation to SARS-COV to ACE2 binding at the lung, and this condition has led to death, it cannot be said of him that he died of Covid-19. Covid-19 is a specific illness, with specific mechanics that cause death. This is not a story that has been invented at this site. It is a fact regarding an observed condition, about which there is quite a lot of agreement as expressed in medical journal articles, irrespective of whether it is reported at FBEL or not.”

http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/05/track-and-trace-and-the-difference-between-covid-19-and-from-with-coronavirus/

99014 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #692 of 1168 🔗

A timely warning – from the Grad of all places:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/22/against-the-law-why-judges-are-under-attack-by-the-secret-barrister

If we lose judicial independence, we lose the rule of law. The day a judge makes a binding decision affecting the rights and liberties of one of us, not on the legal and factual merits, but with a nervous glance to the press and public galleries, or with a beady eye on political favour or punishment, is the day that the decay in our democracy turns terminal.
Judicial review is what protects us, the individual, from the overbearing might of the state. It exists to ensure that, however venal, corrupt or malign the politicians who govern us, we are treated equally and according to the law. The government’s claims to be restoring trust in democracy by rolling back these checks and balances mask an audacious power grab, allowing them to govern unlawfully and without accountability.
Casting a glance across the world, we see the logical consequences taken to their grisly extremes. Every would-be authoritarian regime has the judiciary in its sights. From the Polish Law and Justice party attempting to remove a third of its senior judges, to Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan dismissing a quarter of all judges following the failed military coup in 2016, to Hungary’s Viktor Orbán’s “climate of fear” leading to the removal of unfavoured judges and the installation of party loyalists.
Let us never be so naive as to suppose that we are immune.

99377 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Cheezilla, #693 of 1168 🔗

Well in that case the decay in our democracy is terminal after the JR about closing schools, and most likely any subsequent challenge if lockdown laws.

99019 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #694 of 1168 🔗

Is this true? Look at the picture below in the link. Then Spain and the rest of Europe are in for a bad period. Just illustrates that locking down just delay the whole thing. One can’t say you must reach the level of US cases per million to be sure that the pandemic peters off as this is dependent on the number of testing done. Sweden and UK might have lesser testing in the beginning compared with Germany and therefore lots of undetected cases, so might be nearer herd immunity but problems for Germany and other European countries. The virus only stop spreading when you reach herd immunity .Every action is just delaying it.

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1297230296799154177

 “Good illustration of what is going on in Europe. Spain went into a strict lockdown and has totalled half the cases per pop of the USA (chart 1) but as soon as you relax, cases flare up (chart 2). Having spread the cases more evenly, the USA will be done with COVID much earlier.

99039 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to swedenborg, 3, #695 of 1168 🔗

Do we care about cases?

99052 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to BJJ, #696 of 1168 🔗

Agree that many are false positive,asymptomatic but there are cases even some hospitalised and a few deaths.However,if we are lucky less virulent strain might be more trnsmissible.The first wave might not have reached all parts of Europe. The problem is that politicians care and might just delay things with their meaningless actions.

99181 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BJJ, 1, #697 of 1168 🔗

Not with the meaninglessness of what emerges from PCR testing.

99055 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 15, #698 of 1168 🔗

Like Anders Tegnell said, everybody will be in the same place in a year or so. Then all the political proponents of lockdown can get the good political kicking that they deserve.

99076 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #699 of 1168 🔗

Anders is heading for a sexual harrasment case if he’s not careful.

Or an old blackface pic from. 1997 will surface

99061 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 1, #700 of 1168 🔗

Could be but most in Europe just didn’t have the large scale testing set up in time for the actual epidemic so they missed all the “cases”. Germany had already laid their towels out on all the test kits. When the ONS started towards the end of April they were already only finding 0.34%.

99022 Bella, replying to Bella, 25, #701 of 1168 🔗

Post on Save Our Rights UK Facebook Page:

Some serious questions. I would legitimately like your answers:
When the government decides that you now need to wear gloves to go on public transport and in supermarkets, are you going to comply?
When the government decides that you now need to wear goggles to go on public transport and in supermarkets, are you going to comply?
When the government decides that you now need to wear a face mask, gloves AND goggles, not only on public transport and in supermarkets, but in ALL public spaces, are you going to comply?
When the government decides that you now need to wear a face mask, gloves AND goggles, not only in public spaces, but in your own home as well, are you going to comply?
When the government decides that you now need to prove that you’re not an “asymptomatic carrier” (by being tested), in order to access public spaces (including public transport and supermarkets), are you going to comply?
When the government decides that you now need an “immunity passport”, in order to access public spaces (including public transport and supermarkets), are you going to comply?
When the government decides that you now need “proof of vaccination”, in order to access public spaces (including public transport and supermarkets), are you going to comply?
When the government decides that you now need a microchip in your arm, in order to access public spaces (including public transport and supermarkets), are you going to comply?
I guess the real question is: Is there ANY point at which you’re going to stop doing what the government tells you to do? Because until large enough numbers of people stop complying with all this nonsense, the government mandates are only going to keep getting more intrusive, more authoritarian and harder to roll back.
The “new normal” was never meant to be temporary, Right from the very beginning of this manufactured crisis, it was always intended to go on indefinitely, as a means of stripping you of your freedom, privacy and autonomy, increment by increment.
Fear is the currency of control, and as long as people can be kept in a state of perpetual fear, they will keep surrendering power and control over their own lives to those who seek power and control over others, in return for the illusion of “safety”.
PLEASE wake up.
(Also, copy, paste and share this EVERYWHERE. Thanks!)

99027 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bella, 6, #702 of 1168 🔗

Easy. No to everything.

99154 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #703 of 1168 🔗

Sheeple: Yes to everything.
And YOU must do everything.
Then I’LL be safe.
Baa.

99035 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bella, 5, #704 of 1168 🔗

Well said

The “new normal” was never meant to be temporary, Right from the very beginning of this manufactured crisis , it was always intended to go on indefinitely, as a means of stripping you of your freedom, privacy and autonomy, increment by increment.

99041 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Bella, 3, #705 of 1168 🔗

Superb.

99067 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Bella, 4, #706 of 1168 🔗

I’ve been saying for months that we all have decide where our red line is. I hope that the madder it gets, more people will find theirs.

99085 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Bella, 6, #707 of 1168 🔗

Depressingly real but at least I’m reassured that others feel as strongly as I do about the seriousness of what we’re losing here and the importance of resistance.

99104 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Bella, 6, #708 of 1168 🔗

I dont wear a mask did at the start then last week I thought fuck it enough is enough

99031 Victoria, 4, #709 of 1168 🔗

MUST SEE DOCUMENTARY: PLANDEMIC: InDOCTORnation – The Most Censored Documentary of All Time

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99046 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 18, #710 of 1168 🔗

Herd immunity is not, as many think, a point where the virus is eliminated. It is actually a state of equilibrium whereby immunity + interventions are enough to halt the spread of the virus.

If there is zero immunity then only interventions will work. If there is enough immunity then there is no need for intervention.

Therefore the idea of zero covid is absurd unless you wish to be reliant on interventions possibly forever. If and when a vaccine comes it will most likely not provide enough immunity to remove the need for interventions. Natural immunity will be required to make up the difference.

As people become infected this natural immunity will build up regardless. The only thing that human intervention does is slow this process down.

Most people who think that herd immunity is a bad idea probably don’t realise what it actually means.

99063 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #711 of 1168 🔗

I like the term population immunity which is less likely to trigger sensitive souls who think they are otherwise being compared to cattle. Though why they should object to that but be happy with being treated like dangerous zoo animals I don’t know.

99212 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Charlie Blue, #712 of 1168 🔗

I think “flock immunity” is a more apt term.

99328 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Tenchy, #713 of 1168 🔗

Swarm or hive

99114 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #714 of 1168 🔗

Herd immunity can be achieved either through natural infections or by vaccine. Once achieved interventions (if you mean social distancing etc.) aren’t required.

99120 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Jonathan Smith, 1, #715 of 1168 🔗

That’s what I said, interventions are not required only once enough people are immune. As the number of immune people increases the need for intervention decreases until you reach a point where no intervention is required at all.

What we’re seeing in many countries that are lifting restrictions is the natural rebalancing between immunity and intervention needs.

99126 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Jonathan Smith, 1, #716 of 1168 🔗

I keep on hearing pedantic ‘scientists’ saying that the expression ‘herd immunity’ only applies to vaccines. I doubt that is true, but that’s what they claim. An alternative that they can’t sneer at is ‘community immunity’.

99145 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #717 of 1168 🔗

Or we can just call it “Zero COVID” as it turns out that’s just a euphemism for herd immunity.

What matters is not what actually happens. That is the same regardless. It’s all about how you feel about it.

Herd immunity is fine but only if you assert that it was never your goal and that you have zero acceptance of it. You don’t have to prevent it, you just have to not like it.

99131 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Jonathan Smith, 4, #718 of 1168 🔗

The equilibrium you reach is based on average transmission. So if everyone washes their hands and stays at home when ill and infections drops to a very low level (like now) then it might go up again if people stopped doing all those things. You have herd immunity but at a lowered threshold.

But it also might not because of “overshoot”. If you approach the peak too rapidly then you end up with more infections than you really need.

It’s unknown how much we overshot in the UK but I can’t see people changing their behaviour back to how it was in January any time soon anyway.

The crazy thing about all these idiots like Sridhar is they don’t seem to appreciate how stable the equilibrium is or how quickly you reach it. Their interpretation is that we’re balanced on a knife edge with a mostly susceptible population. But with an estimated 30,000 or so “patient zeros” seeded throughout the population how is that possible? We can see how quickly things get out of control in an actually susceptible population by looking at Australia, or just by remembering how quickly it all kicked off here in February. Anyone would think they don’t understand exponential growth or the dynamics of epidemics at all 🤔

Herd immunity is presented as an unattainable goal that one day might come within reach after years of privation and self-flagellation and endless vaccines.
But that’s a complete misunderstanding of how it works.

99144 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to guy153, 2, #719 of 1168 🔗

The thing is, ‘community immunity’ doesn’t guarantee that any individual is immune (in fact, we should be able to cope with the complexity of the idea that immunity isn’t binary, and that people can have differing degrees of partial immunity, and that this all goes into the ‘average transmission’ you mention).

Not being totally immune seems to be a fear that most people can’t handle.

99156 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #720 of 1168 🔗

Yes and I’ve noticed a lot of people seem to get confused by the whole idea of averages. We see this on the other side of the debate sometimes too: just because a test _can_ result in a false positive doesn’t mean that it always will or that it’s useless. You calibrate its performance as best you can and work with it. Nothing is perfect. And this is also true of both individual and population level immunity. It’s all a numbers game.

99179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 1, #721 of 1168 🔗

just because a test _can_ result in a false positive doesn’t mean that it always will or that it’s useless.”

No. But in certain circumstance the error is such that it is useless for its intended purpose.

That is the situation with the current use of PCR testing.

99211 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, #722 of 1168 🔗

Yes, agree 100%.

99139 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #723 of 1168 🔗

Herd ommunity to corona viruses gets to about 20-30% of human population before the virus mutates to another species. This was said to be common knowledge among doctors who have studied medicine. The way a corona virus works, this one beong no different to others.

For my source in saying this See the video of the 9 doctors speaking out – the discussion realsed recently not the earlier washington steps youtube censord video.

99164 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Basics, 1, #724 of 1168 🔗

Not sure I believe that. Coronaviruses mutate rather slowly (because they have error correction in their polymerase) and some have been in the human population for hundreds or thousands of years.

Herd immunity threshold is lowered by non homogeneous mixing, cross immunity, the fact that serology is only measuring a subset of immunity, etc. There are plenty of reasons why 20% is plausible and it has been observed for flu.

If serology was the only evidence we had it would be bold to conclude too much from it but it’s hard to see what else explains the observed facts of the epidemic other than population immunity.

99189 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to guy153, #725 of 1168 🔗

I read that coronaviruses mutate within individual bodies during infection. The virus is mutating all the time. I recall a study in Iceland that identified 10,000 mutations. My suspicion is that this is about semantics – one person’s “mutation” is another person’s “variation”.

99218 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to OKUK, #726 of 1168 🔗

There are lots of mutations but only small ones. Not like with influenza viruses. And yes your body does actually promote some of the mutations as a sort of immune response. Because of the error correction in the RdRP it’s believed this is the main source of mutations in SARS2.

99162 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #727 of 1168 🔗

Absolutely. Only idiots think that you can simply eliminate a virus of this nature.

Furthermore – there’s no compelling reason to do so, even if you could.

99171 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, #728 of 1168 🔗

I’m sceptical about the herd immunity concept. If 60% have immunity that means 40% don’t which translates to 28 million people in the UK. These 28 million people will be travelling up and down the country, mixing in pubs, supermarkets and between households. Why won’t the virus spread through the 28 million like it did through the 42 million? After all, the infection among the 42 million will have started with just a few cases so why not with the 28 million. It seems like a BS theory to me.

99208 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to OKUK, #729 of 1168 🔗

The threshold is not fixed. The 28 million might never meet anybody out of that group. They may only ever meet the people in the 60% group.

Whatever ratio you choose, there will be a point that is reached where there is not enough interaction between susceptible people for the virus to spread.

99224 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to OKUK, #730 of 1168 🔗

While I hate the use of “R” as a tool for justifying lockdown measures it can be useful mathematically when talking about the herd immunity concept

Let’s say R (in an unexposed population) is 2, meaning 1 infected person is expected to infect 2 others. This can lead to exponential type growth as soon as someone becomes infected. They infect 2 others who infect 4 others who infect 8 and so on. The numbers go up very quickly.

However in your example when one of the 28 million gets infected, of the two contacts they would be expected to infect 60% (or 1.2) are immune so they can only infect 0.8 other people and the actual R is less then 1. When R is less than 1 it means the spread of disease is slowing

I do know you cant have fractions of a person but I’m talking aboout averages here so overall the effect is the same.

Herd immunity doesn’t mean you can’t have outbreaks, just that any which do start tend to fizzle out fairly quickly because too many contacts are with immune people who cant take part in spreading it further

Hope this helps!

99255 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, #731 of 1168 🔗

One point worth bearing in mind is that populations are not homogeneous in their vulnerability to a particular disease or in the degree to which individuals mix and have opportunities to spread the disease. Since a small proportion of the population probably accounts for a very large proportion of the spreading, once that small share is immune and no longer either susceptible or spreading, you have much reduced scope for rapid spread. You’ve achieved a degree of herd immunity at a much lower level of prevalence than you would get in the simplistic position.

In your situation, if 60% of the population had caught the disease, most likely almost all of the susceptible people who have a lot of opportunities to spread it and therefore to catch it, have already had it.

Herd immunity in general is not really contestable as a basic concept, I think, though you can quibble about the details.

99059 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #732 of 1168 🔗

This is a thought exercise I’ve often considered, usually when people talk about species becoming extinct but is probably apt for the situation we’re in now.

Imagine if you had a magic wand that prevented death. Would you use it?

Most people would probably say yes and they would keep on using it to prevent all death.

But what if eventually conditions become intolerable because nothing ever dies? How would you go about selecting which people/animals/plants to keep alive and let the rest die? Would you stop using the wand and let nature take it’s natural course?

What if you were then offered a wand that granted death. Would you use that or would you relinquish responsibility from the misery you caused? How would you decide what should die?

99071 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #733 of 1168 🔗

Reminds me of the Alan Watts, life as a dream, analogy.

https://youtu.be/wU0PYcCsL6o

“So then, let’s suppose that you were able every night to dream any dream you wanted to dream, and that you could, for example, have the power within one night to dream 75 years of time, or any length of time you wanted to have.

And you would, naturally, as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure you could conceive. And after several nights of 75 years of total pleasure each you would say “Well that was pretty great. But now let’s have a surprise, let’s have a dream which isn’t under control, where something is gonna happen to me that I don’t know what it’s gonna be.”

And you would dig that and would come out of that and you would say “Wow that was a close shave, wasn’t it?”. Then you would get more and more adventurous and you would make further- and further-out gambles what you would dream. And finally, you would dream where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life that you are actually living today.”

99078 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #734 of 1168 🔗

Watts rocks!

99110 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #735 of 1168 🔗

Always loved him. That mellifluous voice. Probably more so because he liked a drink.

99214 ▶▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to Cheezilla, #736 of 1168 🔗

Watt is awesome , listening to his weekly Debass podcasts atm . Love his take on our Dystopian situation and his Scottish brogue is very soothing . Although he does get caught up a bit too much on HG Wells and Bertrand Russel .
He actually did a pretty good impression of the inhuman monster Kissenger this week .

99073 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #737 of 1168 🔗

The old religions recognised this.

The more recent Judeo/Christian faiths give you but one chance to get it right – or else! Hence, ironically, fostering a fear of death.

Shiva represents the cycle of birth and decay, all matter is recycled. Similarly Kali, his female counterpart, destroys in order to create.

The old matriarchal religions had the maiden, the mother and the crone – again cyclical, acknowledging the circle of life.

99108 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #738 of 1168 🔗

‘Everything in life is resurrection.’ Voltaire

99174 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #739 of 1168 🔗

I’ve been re-reading Ursula Le Guin’s Earthsea books – excellent fantasy series about ‘imaginary people in imaginary places with real problems’.
In The Farthest Shore , the heroes have to confront an enemy who offers people escape from death, at the cost of draining all the magic – literal and figurative – out of life.

You will die. You will not live forever….Nothing is immortal. But only to us is it given to know that we must die. And that is a great gift: the gift of selfhood. … Would you have the sea grow still and the tides cease, to save one wave, to save yourself? Would you give up the craft of your hands, and the passion of your heart, and the light of sunrise and sunset, to buy safety for yourself – safety for ever? …That is the message: by destroying life you may deny death and live forever.

Did I just say that was fantasy?

99178 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 1, #740 of 1168 🔗

I loved those books in my teens. Should re-read them.

99182 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #741 of 1168 🔗

Me too!

99205 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, #742 of 1168 🔗

‘The world is not made up of atoms, it is made of stories’. Ursula Le Guin. (Apologies if not verbatim.)

99090 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #743 of 1168 🔗

Your questions reminds me of a Star Trek Voyager episode where a member of the Q Continuum wanted to end his life but failed and was imprisoned by the Continuum to prevent him from carrying out his desire. He’s released by the crew of Voyager and requests asylum. During the hearing, he asks Captain Janeway, “You’re an explorer but what happens when you have nothing left to explore, would you want to live forever?”

I’ve always found myself drawn to that question again and again during the last 5 months.

99092 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #744 of 1168 🔗

Does anyone remember the TV series, The Storyteller.?

The Soldier and Death

A soldier returns home after 20 years of war, with three biscuits in his knapsack. On his way he meets three beggars to whom he gives the biscuits; in return one gives him a ruby whistle, one the jolliest dance, and the final man, who gets the last biscuit despite the soldier being hungry himself, in return gives him a pack of magic playing cards and a musty sack that has the power to trap anything ordered into it.

Using the sack, the soldier manages to trap a flock of geese, and so manages to feed himself. Upon arriving at an abandoned castle overrun with small devils, he plays them in a game of cards, winning 40 barrels of gold, and when they try to kill him, he captures them in the sack only letting them go when they promise to never return. He makes one of them swear to serve him and keeps its foot as leverage.

Quickly becoming rich and famous because he removed the devils from a palace that is owned by the Tzar, his luck runs short when his son becomes deathly ill. Calling upon the devil, the soldier is given a glass goblet that allows the owner to see Death. If Death is at the foot of the person’s bed (as was the case with his son), he or she will recover if sprinkled with water from the goblet. If Death is at the head of the bed, nothing can be done. Then the Tzar becomes ill and the soldier, seeing Death at the head of his bed, makes a bargain with Death: his life in exchange for the Tzar’s. Death takes his offer and gives the illness to the soldier, curing the Tzar. Lying in his death bed, he summons Death into his sack and stops death from happening everywhere.

But as time goes on, he sees people everywhere who are waiting for death that will not come. So he frees Death, who fears the soldier and his sack so much that he refuses to take the soldier’s life. The soldier, old and weary of life, seeks out a way to die. He travels down to the underworld, forcing the devils at the gates (the same ones from before) to give him two hundred souls and a map to heaven. Terrified of the sack, the devils agree to his demands. Upon reaching the gates of heaven, he asks to be let in with the souls while begging for forgiveness from God, but he is denied by the gatekeeper. He gives the sack to one of the souls, asking the soul to summon him into the sack when he has passed through the gates. But since there is no memory in heaven, the soul forgets and the soldier is condemned to live forever upon the Earth.

99132 ▶▶▶ NappyFace, replying to Mr Dee, #745 of 1168 🔗

Yes I remember that one!

Very apt.

99148 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Mr Dee, #746 of 1168 🔗

“forever is a very long time, you know” (Catch-22)

99152 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, #747 of 1168 🔗

It’s on Netflix. My boys will watch the storyteller tomorrow.

99167 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 1, #748 of 1168 🔗

Just looked it up and seems it’s on Amazon Prime.

99170 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #749 of 1168 🔗

Oh, you’re right. Sorry. I checked Netflix first and then Prime. Prime it is.

99185 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #750 of 1168 🔗

Good to know. Thanks!

99163 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, #751 of 1168 🔗

The Wandering Russian, instead of the Flying Dutchman?

99219 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mr Dee, #752 of 1168 🔗

Sounds very Terry Pratchet

99125 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #753 of 1168 🔗

What if you were then offered a wand that granted death. Would you use that or would you relinquish responsibility from the misery you caused? How would you decide what should die?

Bill Gates has the answer.

99149 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #754 of 1168 🔗

Ever read John Wyndham’s Trouble With Lichen ?

99159 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 1, #755 of 1168 🔗

Or seen Torchwood Miracle Day?

99279 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to annie, #756 of 1168 🔗

I haven’t but looked it up and it sounds very interesting. Just the sort of theme that I would find interesting. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

99151 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #757 of 1168 🔗

Perhaps the wand to own is that which grants rebirth and renewal.

99068 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #758 of 1168 🔗

A lot of mask tales give us strength, but one question. Just returned from my local off license and shop, I was one of about two of say 15 people in the whole place not masked. All staff masked.

I am actively avoiding shops because of the depression that sets in. So glad to see anti mask protests in Dublin and Belfast today. Prof. Delores Cahill leading from Dublin.

I would love to see high profile people of like mind to get vocal. I see Peter Ebdon and Matt Le Tissier have. Hardly A List but hey. It really is a cross cutting issue so there must be many a public figure crying behind their mask. One or two stepping up could create a wave of attention. Any others you have seen get vocal or do they just send the help to the shops?

99075 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #759 of 1168 🔗

Denise Welch and Jeff Stelling

99089 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #760 of 1168 🔗

Unbelievable Jeff

99084 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #761 of 1168 🔗

The bloke from The Corrs is also a sceptic

99087 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #762 of 1168 🔗

He’s famously been David Icked a long time ago. Established deep sceptics. I was thinking more of the rock stars, the gangster rapper. KRS One was always a huge deep state kinda head. Must see what his stance is.

99100 ▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #763 of 1168 🔗

David icke predicted this many times ,hes spot on !

99103 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Nic, -2, #764 of 1168 🔗

You’d expect that from the Son of God though.

99158 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Smith, #765 of 1168 🔗

Especially one in a purple shell suit…truly he must be the Messiah of Merseyside.

99107 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nic, 1, #766 of 1168 🔗

Love Icke. First bought a book of his after 9/11 and was hooked. His London Real interviews are immense.

99176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #767 of 1168 🔗

Disagree. He’s a bitter angry man who feels he didn’t get the adoration he thinks he deserves

99191 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bella, 1, #768 of 1168 🔗

Bitter? His message is about not harming a fellow man. Yeah, it’s extreme but I get a lot of pleasure listening to him connect the dots.

When I first got his books I was also reading Hayek, Chomsky, Nietzsche, Fukuyama. I’ve always given an ear to anyone because on so many occasions the next book I’ve read has completely changed my mind on a subject.

It’s happened so often I always check my own bias. Even been tipping my hat to Trump for the first time recently during CV-19. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Does it?

99172 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Nic, #769 of 1168 🔗

And he was way off about a lot of other things

99256 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, #770 of 1168 🔗

Go on then Bella, list half a dozen.

99124 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #771 of 1168 🔗

Jim Corr. Well done him.

99080 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #772 of 1168 🔗

A thought occured to me regarding our faces. I wondered if we have evolved over time to be able to spot illness by visual clues from peoples faces. Aside from possibly smell, it just seemed likely to me that this would be the best way for us to tell if somebody was sick.

So I googled it and found this. There were actually quite a lot of articles on the subject:

8 signs on your face that can tell that you are sick
https://bit.ly/2QdSPos

Does anybody else have more in depth knowledge on the subject?

99153 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #773 of 1168 🔗

No but I agree with you. I do know that in Norway if you see someone with a blue nose you are supposed to stop them on the street and start rubbing it because their nose because the blue colour indicates they are in the early stages of frostbite – so a mask and social distancing would screw that up!

99155 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to OKUK, #774 of 1168 🔗

But the mask will also probably keep the nose a bit warmer.

(I know this is unhelpful. I do own a neoprene mask thing and haven’t used it it in years. It’s for skiing when it’s very cold)

99196 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, #775 of 1168 🔗

Possibly but if it’s an overall body warmth issue, mask or not, the body will protect your vital organs in the trunk and sacrifice your nose!

99086 adele, replying to adele, 6, #777 of 1168 🔗

Care home cruelty letter – that is absolutely awful to read, and even worse to think how many thousands of families are going through the same thing.

I know next to nothing about the ins and outs of care homes – do you sign a contract that means you have to stay there?

Either way, I’d have him out of there in a breath. I’d have a bed set up in my living room if it came to it. Better to spend the rest of his time with family than in that soulless existence.

Find a way and fast because you’ll never get this time back. X

99117 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to adele, 2, #778 of 1168 🔗

I’d have any relative out of there even if I have to bloody carry them. I’m glad me and my brother see eye to eye on this – our parents would only go to a care home as an absolute last resort , even if it costs our entire inheritance (and then some).

99142 ▶▶ annie, replying to adele, 2, #779 of 1168 🔗

Trouble is that many residents need special equipment, e.g. hoists, that can’t be provided at home.
But, having seen a good many of these places – dreary antechambers to death at the best of tines – I’m determined that nobody will ever get me into one. Me for the 200 aspirins, or you can just knock me on the head.

99150 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to annie, 1, #780 of 1168 🔗

Quite right Annie- looking after the frail elderly cannot be done by amateurs.

99199 ▶▶▶▶ adele, replying to OKUK, #781 of 1168 🔗

The price some of these care homes charge you could probably hire a professional. They’re extortionate!

99232 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to adele, 1, #782 of 1168 🔗

For 24 hour care? It’s not extortionate really. How much would it cost you to provide 24 hour care for a frail and elderly person in your own home, if they had complex health and care needs?

99094 Jonathan Smith, replying to Jonathan Smith, 7, #783 of 1168 🔗

Read the first few paragraphs of the new Questioning Covid website and it sounds absolutely barking. Don’t think I’ll be leaning on that too much. Toby is doing excellent work.

99134 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Jonathan Smith, 7, #784 of 1168 🔗

Agreed. We must not allow rational scepticism and thinking to be hijacked by nutters. The MSM will paint us into a corner if we do.

99146 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #785 of 1168 🔗

We have to realise the state is not above organising such nutjob efforts in order to discredit rational scepticism.

99744 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Chris Hume, #786 of 1168 🔗

I’ll keep it even simpler : Stick to the Knitting.

Forget speculation. Steer away from too much concentration on ‘Cui bono?’ (although it’s ultimately important). Forget various hobby-horses like 5G. Forget left/right.

Just concentrate on the evidence and its contradiction by policy.

99096 Nic, replying to Nic, 15, #787 of 1168 🔗

Ignore all restrictions , do not get tested no tests no lockdown.
Had to laugh the adverts urging people to get a test so they can go back to normal the thing is most people will.believe this and go and get a test, and then wonder why they are locked down

99099 ▶▶ matt, replying to Nic, 19, #788 of 1168 🔗

Don’t get tested. Protect your community. Sack Hancock.

99143 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nic, 2, #789 of 1168 🔗

They must think we are very, very stupid! No one’s probing my proboscis thank you very much.

99225 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, #790 of 1168 🔗

Anybody who tries will get a punch on theirs.

99116 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #791 of 1168 🔗

Following Toby’s valiant appearance on Radio 4’s Any Questions last night, I thought that I’d brave listening to Any Answers (follow up show today with joe public).

Oh dear, what a load of absolute rubbish. Full of noise and nonsense. Peak insanity was one caller loosely suggesting that there should quarantines imposed on those who’d holidayed within the UK!!!

99119 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #792 of 1168 🔗

A sure sign that even sheeple are losing what’s left of their minds.

99136 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #793 of 1168 🔗

The feeble sheeple are turning purple from mask-induced lack of oxygen.

99140 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #794 of 1168 🔗

They don’t have minds.

99223 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #795 of 1168 🔗

Not independent ones anyway.

99175 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #796 of 1168 🔗

Any Answers used to be a favourite hangout of middle class housewives with nothing better to do than write and pontificate in the most bigoted way

I used to have it on while doing the ironing. Talk about ironing with gusto while swearing at the radio!

Haven’t listened to it for 40+ years though – learned to buy clothes that don’t need ironing ;-).

99235 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #797 of 1168 🔗

Anita Arnand? makes in unlistenable, she flusters people by asking them a question when they’ve come on to make a totally different point.

99269 ▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to NickR, 1, #798 of 1168 🔗

That’s the James O’Gobshite method. Drown the argument in inconsequential minutiae, so it’s not about ideas anymore, but about micro detailed process.

99288 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to NickR, 2, #799 of 1168 🔗

“Yes, but you’re not really saying masks can’t be pretty, are you? ”

Anand, the impartial BBC presenter, was famously photographed wearing a pro-Obama beanie hat during the 2012 Presidential campaign, when reporting from the US .

99180 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #800 of 1168 🔗

Think forward a time and that kind of stuff shall be revealed as utter insanity.

99130 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 16, #801 of 1168 🔗

The reports from the care homes in today’s bulletin made me tearful. How much longer is this shit show of national cowardice, stupidity and hysteria going to continue? I’m not sure how much more of it I can take.

99137 ▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 7, #802 of 1168 🔗

Diabolical cruelty. All pretence at humanity in these hellholes has long been abandoned.

99157 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #803 of 1168 🔗

You’re alone by a long chalk. I fear that the weakness in making the case for reality is the almost total capture of the media; there is absolutely no consistent opposition to the fake narrative, despite the odd item that reveals the truth.

99736 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, #804 of 1168 🔗

Sorry : ‘ not alone’

99160 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 9, #805 of 1168 🔗

As part of our work retirement group I visit a very elderly lady who is now in a care home, her hearing and age mean she cannot really use the phone and it has been hard to get any news from the home. In the end I had to send her a stamped addressed postcard so that she could write back and tell me she was still alive, it is a bit like communicating with someone in a Soviet Gulag.
My 91 year old aunt is terrified that she might be frog marched into a care home and is determined that it will never happen, she tells me she has a bottle of pills and if the worst comes to the worst the whole lot is going down. It is a shame that people are now terrified of care homes the way people were terrified of the work-house in victorian times.

99165 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Steve Martindale, 11, #806 of 1168 🔗

My 104 year old cousin (twice removed – she’s my grandpa’s cousin) is increasingly frail, but still extraordinary. She was going fell walking until her early 90s. She still lives in her little ground floor flat and though she has carers come in regularly, she’s perfectly capable and has a mind like a steel trap. A few years ago she gave me and my mother power of attorney – her main stipulation is that we should use her estate to make sure that she can stay out of a care home as long as humanly possible.

99320 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to matt, 1, #807 of 1168 🔗

Matt,
Good for her and best wishes as well, may she continue for some years more!

DavidC

99138 CGL, replying to CGL, 17, #808 of 1168 🔗

Spent a night in a hotel on Wednesday – decided to wing it and try going maskless – it worked. No challenges – we think we got a dirty look but couldn’t really tell behind the muzzles. Spent 2 days away – no face nappies at any point. I told my mum about claiming exemption this week, and said that she doesn’t have to give a reason, and it’s none of their business. She really doesn’t like wearing a mask – it distresses her and makes her feel very claustrophobic. She went shopping today and went into 2 shops sans muzzle – no challenges. Declined a track and trace attempt yesterday – young lass requesting details thought it was mandatory, but I explained that it isn’t, and that you can choose not to take part. A mazing how many people aren’t aware of their rights.

99147 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CGL, 7, #809 of 1168 🔗

Ditto. When I had lunch with a friend, the waitress and my friend was surprised when I told them that giving your details for track and trace was voluntary. They both thought it was mandatory and I replied that it wasn’t and the key words were “voluntary” and “consent”

99229 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #810 of 1168 🔗

On a night out in London recently, every single pub we visited did not know T&T was optional. Several looked confused and remarked that they had never had anyone opt out before, and one attempted to give me a lecture, before I snarled back and threatened to take my business elsewhere.
The thing I don’t understand is how the managers of these businesses have done so little research into the requirements. Surely if it was your business you would at least do a quick Google search?

99173 JohnB, #811 of 1168 🔗

Years of being ground down by people calling them deluded fantasists ?

🙂

99177 Basics, 1, #812 of 1168 🔗

Continuing thoughts around Gulf War Syndrome.

HCQ is a time served tested medical intervention that is being prescribed in africa and India – where social distancing is impossible. The behaviour of corona/covid19 is altered where HCQ is on thr ground and being used. In tiny doses not the toxic large doses of the design flawed trials which led to toxic poisoning – as known would happen at tge time of designing the recent trials.

Here now is an article a few month old looking into how the US military got around the problem of Gulf War Syndrome to continue the practice of using service personel as lab rats.

To quote:
“Troops are at risk during an outbreak due to the tight quarters in which they live and work. It is therefore not surprising that all branches of the service – Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard – have been hit hard by COVID-19.”
[…]
“Because the COVID-19 virus is new, there are as yet no FDA approved treatments. As a result, military physicians are turning to either treatments approved for other conditions or seeking access to newly developed treatments, such as the antiviral Remdesivir, which to date has received FDA emergency use approval only for COVID-19 patients with severe conditions”
[…]
“But in winning the battle, those seeking to stop the vaccine program lost the war. The Department of Defense appealed to Congress for a workaround. It resulted in the passing of the BioShield Act in 2004, creating the Emergency Use Authorization. This gave the FDA authority to recharacterize the status of a drug or vaccine from investigational to approved for emergency use. In December of 2005 it issued a “final order concluding that [the Anthrax Vaccine] was the best available medical countermeasure to the potential military emergency.””

https://theconversation.com/why-the-military-can-use-emergency-powers-to-treat-service-members-with-trial-covid-19-drugs-135876 ?

With HCQ being a long standing anti malaria drug clearly of use to US service personnel it takes some believing there are not millitary medics who are not unaware of the harm they are doing by with holding HCQ from service personnel.

Do no harm. Stand by and watch harm.

99197 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #813 of 1168 🔗

A few lines from a 1969 episode of The Avengers ‘Homicide and Old Lace’:

They are certainly not gentlemen. They are nefarious nasties.

I think that aptly sums up Boris and his crew of nannying nicompoops.

99319 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to richard riewer, #814 of 1168 🔗

Richard,
Thumbs up from a massive (original! None of this current crap Avengers stuff!) Avengers fan!

DavidC

99202 OKUK, 5, #815 of 1168 🔗

Very busy fish and chip shop on the Welsh Borders: not a mask in view on the customer side. Good to see.

99204 annie, 8, #816 of 1168 🔗

Another inspiring piece from our wonderful, probably lonely, sane Anglican, God bless him:

we have … learned some new things which may subtly but decisively colour the way in which we view our neighbours. For many of us it may be difficult to return to a Christian sense that the neighbour standing in front of me is one whom I am called to love and serve and who images Christ to me, now that I have been taught to regard him or her as a sort of machine gun, firing toxic droplets at me. Most of us relate to our neighbour through facial expressions and this again is difficult if we are to be increasingly masked up in public for many months. And predictions such as ‘social distancing is here to stay’ surely present a chilling prognosis for neighbourly interaction.

When Jesus is asked in St Luke’s gospel ‘who is my neighbour?’, he responds with the parable of the Good Samaritan who encounters a man half dead on the road from Jerusalem to Jericho. With a slew of active verbs contained in a single verse, Jesus says that the Samaritan ‘went to him, bound up his wounds, poured wine and oil over them, set the injured man on his own animal, brought him to the inn and took care of him’ (Luke 10.34). Before he went to help this man, the Samaritan did not complete a risk assessment, take care to socially distance himself, or don Personal Protective Equipment.

https://allthingslawfulandhonest.wordpress.com/blog-2/

I particularly like the analogy with the machine gun.

99207 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #817 of 1168 🔗

Simon Dolan tweeted earlier
Verified as true. Jan 2017

“Anthony S. Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said there is “no doubt” Donald J. Trump will be confronted with a surprise infectious disease outbreak during his presidency”

You can see Fauci say this on camera by watching the link below from 31.20 on for 1 minute. Watch the whole video as it is excellent.

The mask slips
https://youtu.be/49rAlzU7WlY

99210 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 1, #818 of 1168 🔗

Yes – but this isn’t a US infection, is it?

99222 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 1, #819 of 1168 🔗

Do you believe it comes from bats then?

99226 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #820 of 1168 🔗

Bats, via a laboratory.

99227 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #821 of 1168 🔗

Jonathan Palmer Hey you left pangolins out of the story, they will feel neglected. 😉

99230 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #823 of 1168 🔗

If I knew what a pangolin was I would have included them

99248 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #824 of 1168 🔗

The original story was that pangolins, a creature which lives on forest floors, ate things which had been contaminated with bat droppings/urine. pangolin was then trapped and sold at a wet market in Wuhan.

Once the pangolin entered the human food chain so did cv19.

Well that was the story

Bats, to pangolins, to humans and other yarns.

99267 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Dave #KBF, #825 of 1168 🔗

I have to admit I was n’t paying much attention at the start.Just remember the videos of bat soup.Couldnt eat chinese food for weeks

99297 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #826 of 1168 🔗

Following your logic made me think of this.

https://covid19data.com/2020/05/03/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-with-millions-of-u-s-dollars-for-risky-coronavirus-research/

Not sure I buy any of the Corona genesis stories. Not enough evidence digestible to my puny brain have I yet found.

99239 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Basics, 3, #827 of 1168 🔗

The trouble is, the evidence is all there. It stares you in the face if you care to look. Many don’t look or don’t want to look though. Similar to 9/11. Overwhelming evidence for controlled demolition of the towers, but we don’t want to think that because it is too scary to contemplate.

99250 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Howie59, #828 of 1168 🔗

Do you not feel being awake to these things has given you an inner peace, and a sense of freedom?

tinfoil hat on.

99254 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #829 of 1168 🔗

I saw a Tweet earlier today that went something along the lines of:

Tinfoil hat wearers can take them off anytime. People who wear masks are forced to and don’t know when it’s safe to take them off.

99260 ▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #830 of 1168 🔗

Difficult to say. I would hardly say I have an inner peace, rather a feeling of being powerless.

It has been a real awakening of late to watch the population turn into sheep. Frightening even.

I thought with the Internet now being commonplace, much more so than it was back in 2001, people would think more for themselves, especially those younger than me. How wrong I was.

99270 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Howie59, 7, #831 of 1168 🔗

I have peace in the sense that I know I’m not going to die of Covid.
Absolute dread as the implications of a conspiracy on this scale.I wish it just was incompetence because we would have hope of going back to normal

99287 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Howie59, #832 of 1168 🔗

FDNY within the past few weeks have called for a new investigation citing overwhelming evidence of explosives.

That is FDNY, the guys who were rightly celebrated for their efforts and losses on the day and there losses after the day because of health damage done on the day.

99292 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, #833 of 1168 🔗

FDNY? Where’s the link to this stunning news? You ain’t got no link have you?

99295 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, #834 of 1168 🔗

Fire dept.
Recent press conference – didn’t it reach the msm?

99290 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Howie59, #836 of 1168 🔗

Bollox – no evidence at all.

99293 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Howie59, 1, #837 of 1168 🔗

It doesn’t stare you in the face if you know how metals melt.

99303 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 4, #838 of 1168 🔗

The only three steel frame buildings in history to suffer complete collapse due to fire fell into their own footprint and happened with 10 hours of each other. None before none since.

We could have expected to have seen a non-symetrical toppling or partial collapse. Melting metal is a detail.

99217 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #839 of 1168 🔗

Good turnout in Dublin for protests today. Jim Corr tweeted a short video long thread ensued.

https://twitter.com/Jimcorrsays/status/1297167027019362304?s=20

99220 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, #840 of 1168 🔗

Looks good. Any estimates for the turnout?

99231 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 18, #841 of 1168 🔗

All I have in this world is this website, my parents, my wife, my school aged daughter (!) and one friend. Not truly….but in the “sceptical” world ! But I was having a great chat with my friend earlier and he raised a great point, and I felt it only right to share with this fine community : )

He said if any pro-government “friend” or acquaintance dares question his views, he simply says “if the Government REALLY cared about your health, it would ban smoking. Full stop. It’s dangerous, and can kill at any age. 67% of smokers die of it. So the Government will happily take your tax for a one in three chance of living, but you believe they have your best interest at heart with Covid?!”

Anyway, thought I would share a useful retort with you all!

Just as a disclaimer, I am an ex-smoker, albeit I just switched habits to an e-cigarette 4 years ago. I still love the smell of smoke, and long for a cigarette, but I am just another sucker, stuck with this life long problem, but I won’t go back. At the same time, I am very anti those holier-than-thou virtue-signalling ex-smoking nazis, and weirdly, that sounds a familiar situation to the one we are in now with Covid!

99236 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #842 of 1168 🔗

Yes, Prime Minister:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGlrE6oQ39o

One of the all time best.

99241 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tenchy, 3, #843 of 1168 🔗

When we could still do comedyAlthough it sometimes seems like a documentary

99310 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Tenchy, 2, #844 of 1168 🔗

I could never watch it all the way through as it was too close to the reality. A true compliment to Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn though.

DavidC

99386 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Tenchy, #845 of 1168 🔗

Genuis!

99418 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Tenchy, #846 of 1168 🔗

A thought came to me, aren’t cigarettes tracked and traced now (if you search for track and trace cigarettes you’ll see what this is about) so that “all tobacco can be tracked and traced from where it came from”. As cash disappears, it would be really easy for the government to track smokers and work out how much they are smoking .. hmmmmm it makes you wonder what the plan is??

99306 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to mrjoeaverage, 9, #847 of 1168 🔗

My circle has become smaller as well. I simply won’t be around anyone who can’t act normally and is living in fear. My husband and kids, my parents and siblings, and my best friend — so similar to you. For me “staying safe” is keeping away from the fear mongers.

99346 ▶▶ annie, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #848 of 1168 🔗

They’ll never ban smoking, because smoking really does, on average, lower life expectancy and that saves them billions in care for the elderly.
And if there’s one thing they hate, it’s caring for the elderly. Hence the ongoing campaign of torture and murder in care ( care ?) homes.

99234 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 10, #849 of 1168 🔗

My daughter went back to her university town in another province yesterday. Not only does she have to quarantine for 2 weeks, as of yesterday any student entering the province also must be subjected to 3 Covid tests DURING the quarantine period. Nonsensical, I know. So her first test was today and because it was a 30-minute ride away the health service sent a taxi for her. She shared the taxi with another girl going to get tested. I just had to laugh — they “endangered” three people by packing them in a taxi for 30 minutes each way (with masks of course) to make everyone feel “safer.” It beggars belief. Then to add to the indignity, the taxi driver said if the health service won’t pay for the cab rides the girls would be getting an invoice. Under no circumstances are we paying for this stupidity! We’ll send the invoice to the premier of Nova Scotia. At least her next 2 tests are within walking distance. It’s OK to break quarantine to get tested but she otherwise is not supposed to even go for a walk alone. My previously docile daughter broke quarantine within hours to get Coke Zero at a convenience store. Even though I think the stuff is poison I encouraged her wholeheartedly.

99237 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #850 of 1168 🔗

Effing bullshit!

99274 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #851 of 1168 🔗

Coke Zero is like COVID Zero isn’t it? Sounds good on paper but is actually a bit shit.

99304 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #852 of 1168 🔗

Couldn’t agree with you more! It’s shit, but if it got my daughter to break quarantine and be subversive then I’m good with it.

99238 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #853 of 1168 🔗

Spiro covers recent Bill Gates Economist video interview.

Bill Gates blames freedom spreading the virus. Evil.

https://youtu.be/09bdiTOapeo

99240 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, 3, #854 of 1168 🔗

What about his freedom to spend his ill gotten gains and exploit us?

99264 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to richard riewer, 3, #855 of 1168 🔗

i think his pleasure comes from the scale of his influence. I do not think money drives him one bit.

99277 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #856 of 1168 🔗

Once you have $100 million secure in the bank and in property, money ceases to be a motive. Choose your billionaire. I like Musk, don’t like Gates.

99278 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to OKUK, 1, #857 of 1168 🔗

i do not know a lot about Elon Musk, where did his fortune come from?

99285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #858 of 1168 🔗

Initially computer games and what became Paypal…latterly he has made a great success of Tesla electric cars and Space X.

99286 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, #859 of 1168 🔗

Not sure how greta fans square musk away. His operations are massive polluting and harmful to the environment.

Also not sure i believe landing a rocket on end. But supposing thats all real and reuse is good – how bad for the planet is the tesla car. The design is problematic at fundamental level weight versus power. That is before looking at the minerals and mining operations required and the clearly subsided high energy manufacturing processes.

And for fun a flame thrower business on the side. The whole musk story doesn’t stand too much critical thinking.

99280 ▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #860 of 1168 🔗

I agree. What is left to do when you have more money to your name than many small countries? It is impossible for any of us to even contemplate how such a person may think.

If you had more money than you could ever spend, what would you do? Try to change the world? Cure the world? No doubt that’s what he thinks he is doing. No doubt he thinks he’s doing it well.

They are megalomaniacs, all of em. Him, Musk and Besos. Vaccinating the planet. Flying to Mars. They’re all fucking mad.

99243 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, 2, #861 of 1168 🔗

New World Order Evil.

99261 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Basics, 6, #862 of 1168 🔗

I need a barf bag every time I see Bill Gates interviewed. Psychopath is the kindest word I can muster.

99312 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #863 of 1168 🔗

.

99242 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #864 of 1168 🔗

How many people who came on here believing our governments & officials had cocked up the lockdown, now believe something nefarious is happening rather than a few mistakes? Just wondering.

99245 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #865 of 1168 🔗

I was torn between cock up and conspiracy until the Leicester lockdown and the quarantine.After that it has become obvious there is another agenda at work.

99257 ▶▶ jim j, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #866 of 1168 🔗

I think they are way to stupid to run a conspiracy. They are just stupid sheep all dashing around because some other government does and they better hurry before a TV channel somewhere cooks up some suffering minority for the evening bulletin.

99266 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to jim j, 8, #867 of 1168 🔗

No one is this stupid

99259 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Dave #KBF, 9, #868 of 1168 🔗

I’m in the latter camp. I wasn’t a conspiracy theorist before all this, but I’m a conspiracy realist now. The David Icke interviews on London Real, James Corbett’s Who is Bill Gates? on the Corbett Report, Plandemic, World Economic Forum’s “Great Reset” (and their Masks4All asshole) etc. have convinced me there’s something bigger going on and our politicians are just useful idiots.

99268 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #869 of 1168 🔗

My initial thoughts were that as soon as the WHO announced a pandemic every government in the world had to do something or risk being sued by their own people for doing nothing.

Now that we’ve seen the catastrophic results of lockdowns they all have to protect each other by carrying on down this path.

Notice how we only see or hear criticism of countries that didn’t join the lockdown gang. We don’t even hear any criticism of the different restrictions imposed by gang members or the way they treat their citizens.

Yet we do see the hypocrisy in denouncing/criticising China’s undemocratic treatment of Hong Kong or the situation in Belarus.

99276 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #870 of 1168 🔗

Belarus is an interesting case.No one was bothered that it’s been a dictatorship for years.As soon as it’s revealed that Belarus turned down loans from the IMF conditional on instituting lockdown policies then we have pro democracy protests.
I don’t know how Dominic Raab kept a straight face when condemning Belarus for alleged voting fraud and lack of democracy.

99281 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #871 of 1168 🔗

Russia is often accused of being run by their Mafia now but really the world is controlled by gangsters (corruption, extortion, protection racket, money laundering) and the only difference is that we claim to be more legitimate.

99301 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #872 of 1168 🔗

Our gangsters run Corporations and fund foundations and NGOs

99363 ▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #873 of 1168 🔗

Belarus is an interesting case. Seems to have slipped off the radar of the MSM last few days. I wonder why that is? Sight of thousands of protestors (horror!) not wearing masks, may have prompted a ‘spike’ in searches for ‘Covid Belarus’. Wouldn’t want people inadvertently stumbling across THAT, would they?

99273 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #874 of 1168 🔗

I’ve ended up with the four way split theory (the four cs):

25% cock-up

25% conspiracy

25% chance

25% coherent planning.

99275 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #875 of 1168 🔗

I’m not a full-on conspiracy theorist but I think that devious globalists like Gates are now very actively using their power and influence to push their own agendas under cover of Covid-19. As some one else said on this site a few weeks ago, there doesn’t have to be an explicit conspiracy when there’s a commonality of interest.

99284 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Edward, 4, #876 of 1168 🔗

It has been a staple of all left wing drama from Brecht to Bleasdale that people with money try to arrange things to their own advantage. Suddenly in 2020 the Left have decreed that we have to take billionaires at their word!

99283 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #877 of 1168 🔗

Real talk

99317 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #878 of 1168 🔗

I saw an intriguing comment somewhere. It suggested that yes, this had all been planned, but only as a war-gamed, prepared, global response to a deadly pandemic. That is, the world (WHO, UN, etc.) had prepared plans to deal with a deadly pandemic, and assumed – mistakenly – that Covid was ‘the big one’, and put the plan into action. By the time they realised their mistake, it was too late, and they have had to follow through to cover up the error. This is what makes it feel planned, even though it was an ‘honest’ mistake…

99390 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #879 of 1168 🔗

Similarly to other commenters, I believe it was stupidity, incompetence and fear of the meeja headlines.

However, the dark forces saw an opportunity and moved to try and take advantage of the situation for their own nefarious purposes. Unfortunately for them, Covid turned out to be a nuthin’ burger. They too were duped by the meeja panic.

So now we are stuck in a spiral of escalating lies, with a government with no strategy and Gates & pharma trying to peddle as fast as possible to spread their tentacles further.

99431 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Dave #KBF, #880 of 1168 🔗

One man’s conspiracy theory is another man’s hypothesis waiting to be proved.

The PC mob / blob calling something a conspiracy theory is an attempt to ridicule anyone who entertains it.

99440 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #881 of 1168 🔗

I don’t think you need some overarching conspiracy, simply a group of vested interests for whom the situation provides an opportunity. I don’t think the Government themselves are implicated (at least not as a whole, there may be individual cases) but the way that SAGE realigned themselves after lockdown started suggests they lined up their financial interests at that point – the minutes show they were against lockdown before it started, if you recall, but they’ve been quite vocally against it being relaxed subsequently. Then you have the teachers’ unions who are loving the fact that some of their members are getting paid for private tuition by middle class parents whilst still drawing a full salary for doing nothing and counting on it damaging the life prospects of the working class poor in order to create the next generation of embittered left-voting fodder. The media motivation is less clear: Piers Morgan is all about ego (as is often the case with very stupid people) and there’s definitely an element of payback for Brexit in some quarters, but the inconsistency of the reporting suggests there isn’t a clear direction.

Glad to see Dominic Sandbrook on our side of the debate, anyway. I always got the impression he was sound.

99244 NickR, replying to NickR, 5, #882 of 1168 🔗

Bearing in mind that people on average only survive 20 months in a care home & that 50% had an outbreak of covid you can be pretty sure that a huge chunk of all care home residents would test positive given a PCR test.
By Christmas 50% of the residents who were in these homes last February will have died. I expect lots to get a positive test before going into hospital & then getting reported as a covid death that will get written up as a 2nd wave. When in reality they’ve died of something altogether different but just have a bit if virus kicking about in their bodies.

99251 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to NickR, 4, #883 of 1168 🔗

To add to the reality: I recall reading elderly people dying of lung disease have an average 14 separate pathogens in their lungs. Essentially they die of lung failure not individual pathogens. Covid as a novel pathogen may be playing a bigger part this year in hastening the death of the vulnerable but that’s about all you can say.

99253 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #884 of 1168 🔗

“People must lean in on Neil Ferguson”. #Corruption

There is growing feeling that Fergusson needs to be held to account for his ‘work’. His model based on 6 people flying from China.

An articulate 2 minute clip explaining the thing that is Ferguson. https://twitter.com/aier/status/1296808940974612481?s=20

99355 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Basics, 1, #885 of 1168 🔗

I didn’t know Fergusson had conflict of interest and is in on the vaccine. Blimey! I’d like some more info about that.

99258 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 31, #886 of 1168 🔗

Why are so many people such good citizens? Why am I always the only one mask free on a train or in a shop? It annoys me that people are such sheep 🐑

Why are we such rule followers? I guarantee, if Matt Handycock were to announce everyone must dye their hair blue because new research shows that blue repels the virus, EVERYONE would do it.

People are so gullible. Uuurrrghh I hate this Scamdemic! It’s all nonsense

99265 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RDawg, 8, #887 of 1168 🔗

One thing I’ve noticed about the law is that criminals tend to know the law better than law abiders.

Most people are law abiders and just follow them blindly not really knowing or questioning the limitations or even if they’re necessary.

99271 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to RDawg, 10, #888 of 1168 🔗

I am constantly amazed that people who seem outwardly to look like they should have the common sense to look at this situation and think this is all *rap, but they do not.

They just do what the box in the corner of the living room tells them.

stay home, mask up, jump out of an upstairs window.

how have people become so guillible?

99341 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #889 of 1168 🔗

They may seem outwardly to look like people, albeit without faces.
They aren’t peoole, they’re zombies.
Trying to apply human criteria to them is simply pointless.

99272 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #890 of 1168 🔗

Hopefully the March in London next weekend may rattle some cages

99313 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #891 of 1168 🔗

Turn off all your smartphones, in unison.

99294 nfw, replying to nfw, 13, #892 of 1168 🔗

“We are unable, unfortunately, to accept any flowers, due to the inability to sanitize them.”

Now I know we’re in The Twilight Zone . Do these people have IQs over 50? Unlikely.

Had the Nazis invaded the Gestapo’s biggest problem would not have been finding small minded low IQ snitches and boot lickers, but with what to do with all the “reports” being sent in.

99307 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to nfw, #893 of 1168 🔗

That’s what they found in France, a whole 20 miles across the channel.

99296 nfw, 4, #894 of 1168 🔗

Not more “cases”? That means more dead grandmas doesn’t it? I mean it’s not as if a “case” is just somebody who tests positive for having Wuhan Flu is it? I mean cases are really bad aren’t they and the Karens don’t need to be told otherwise. What is that thing about a lie of omission again?

99311 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 14, #895 of 1168 🔗

Just a reminder about the latest Big Lie in case you come across it. I heard it on ITV so that means you are pretty much guaranteed to hear it on BBC and Sky as well since they work as a pack. Basically ITV are claiming that recent flouting by young people of social distancing rules has resulted in a spike of cases. Such BS! The incubation period for Covid is something like 7 to 10 days if I remember rightly. Young people have been mixing and ignoring distancing rules for months now! I am sure we’ve all seen examples sine probably March. This is pure invented narrative designed to push the fear agenda.

99314 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to OKUK, 11, #896 of 1168 🔗

Classy. Invent a fake spike, then invent some fake blame, and turn one section of society on another. I’m pretty sure that’s how they’re going to do it. And anyone caught in the crossfire (e.g. a person who cannot wear a mask) will just be collateral damage.

99358 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to OKUK, 5, #897 of 1168 🔗

Divide and conquer. Pit one generation against another. It has Cummings’ fingerprints all over it imo.

99424 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to OKUK, 3, #898 of 1168 🔗

It seems to be playing into people’s snobbery and existing dislikes. There was a piece about the Oldham lockdown on the BBC website (my wife read it so I don’t have to) and the comment trail was full of people basically sneering at the “stupid northeners” and saying they brought it on themselves. Similar story with articles about people going to the beach. I’m not a northener (I escaped Chatham to end up in the East Midlands), I’ve never been a fan of going to the beach, and I don’t particularly like crowds, but that doesn’t mean I want to sneer at people who differ from me in those regards. I really don’t understand the impulse.

99318 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to richard riewer, 1, #900 of 1168 🔗

I can’t wait to buy one.

So I won’t.

DavidC

99340 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 1, #901 of 1168 🔗

Disgusting.

99321 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 32, #902 of 1168 🔗

I have worked out a long list of freedoms we have lost (and there are many more that listed) I would email the following to all your friends to make them realise we are slowly slippin into dictatorship.

They copied the lockdown in Wuhan China, instigated by the Chinese Communist Party, an organisation that has murdered more people than Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union combined

First they put us under house arrest – and I did nothing

Next they stopped us seeing members of our families – and I did nothing

Then they told us not to come within 2 metres of another human being – and I did nothing

Then they told us to wear a mask in supermarkets after saying masks didn’t stop the virus – and I did nothing

Then they announced that the economy had shrunk by over 20% – and I did nothing

Then they closed all places of worships – and I did nothing

Then they told us were the were merely trying to flatten the, but continued lockdowns, long after the “curve” had been flatten – and I did nothing

Then they axed British peoples holiday’s in France, Spain, The Netherlands and Croatia because of a handful of people had tested positive in those countries – and I did nothing

Then I found out Sir Patrick Vallance, Chief Scientific Adviser to the Government of the United Kingdom, had worked for 12 years GlaxoSmithKline (no conflict of interest there regarding vaccines ?) – and I did nothing

Then I found out the death rate for Covid 19 was not worse than for season flu – and I did nothing

Then I found out that the UK death rate from Covid 19 and that of other countries had been massively exaggerated, to include any who have once tested positive for Covid but had died of something completely different – and I did nothing

Than I found people had been dying of untreated cancer and other serious diseases around the world – and I did nothing

Then I found out the Coronaviris Act 2020 was set to be renewed for another 2 years with massive state powers to remove our liberties – and I did nothing

Then I found the United Kingdom was completely bankrupt because there is no magic money forest for all this spending – and I did nothing

Then it became compulsory to wear a mask in the open air, against my will, be vaccinated against my will, be tested against my will – and I did nothing

Then one day I found all the freedom’s we had taken for granted had been taken away from us never to return.

What had I done to stop it? – NOTHING

“We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end.”

― George Orwell, 1984

99357 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #903 of 1168 🔗

I didn’t have to accept house arrest as a key worker. I’ve been indoors within 2 metres of about 2k people since lockdown, I’ve only worn masks on those few occasions when required to by commercial contract

Gtg, bbs

99514 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #904 of 1168 🔗

Cont.
(Should have said 4-5k people above, too late to edit)

I no longer launch into conversations about how rubbish covid/lockdown is;
“Isn’t the Covid terrible?” Seems to be most people’s opening gambit these days, depending on how bright I judge* them to be I have a number of facts to hand and charts on my phone.

I have supported my local economy by shopping locally throughout; there is no nearby petrol outlet so I used the one independent that did not close its toilets to the Paying public and will continue to do so.
I supported local reopening businesses asap, chippy, car wash, cafe, pub, computer accessory shop.
Not much I can do to help the footsie 100.

* yeah I know, judgemental is bad.

99419 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #905 of 1168 🔗

Ask any major shareholder of GSK what they think of Patrick Vallance. He was swiftly replaced by the new CEO, and this was applauded by shareholders. R&D productivity had been weak.

He is not stupid though. I suspect his craven silence on the stupidity of the new government measures is more to do with preserving the pay check of what he thought would be a nice secure non-stressful job with a guaranteed knighthood. Keeping his head down, not rocking the boat.

99322 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 14, #906 of 1168 🔗

“We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end.”

― George Orwell, 1984

99345 ▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 8, #908 of 1168 🔗

PS. But it’s heartening for all of you who are planning, or on, a holiday abroad. They are not going to check on you when you get back, or if they do they won’t keep a record of it. Quarantine shquarantine, you can ignore it with impunity.

99348 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to annie, 6, #909 of 1168 🔗

I agree, but people with jobs might find it difficult unless they lie about their holiday destinations (and don’t post photos on social media). I don’t think employers will look kindly on staff breaking quarantine.

99354 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #910 of 1168 🔗

And getting grassed up by jealous neighbours who had a wet week in Skeggy.

99552 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, #911 of 1168 🔗

You mean you tell that sort of neighbour where you are going?

99342 annie, 15, #912 of 1168 🔗

Hey-ho, my heroes, another day during which you can literally save the lives of approximately 7 billion people by not approaching within six feet of them.
Wonderful feelin’, wonderful day.

99343 Nicky, replying to Nicky, 2, #913 of 1168 🔗

Apologies if you good folk have already seen this – survey is open until midnight today I believe. https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1297161886245572609?s=20

99344 Nicky, replying to Nicky, 3, #915 of 1168 🔗

I would dearly love to go to the march in London next weekend but really don’t fancy the hassle of going on public transport as I am in wales and would need to change a fair few times on trains to get there. I enjoy driving and don’t mind doing a long day but unsure about parking and the current rules on the congestion charge. Anyone from London or south area able to give me any tips in this. I am mid wales so would be heading around Birmingham routes towards London?

99365 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Nicky, 2, #916 of 1168 🔗

Get the train & ignore the rules, claim exemption if challenged. Or drive to Shepherds Bush or anywhere outside end of congestion zone, park & get the tube or take a bike in the car & pick a good cycle route.

99366 ▶▶ mrjoeaverage, replying to Nicky, 2, #917 of 1168 🔗

You could drive and park up somewhere like Stevenage, and then get a fast train into London….assuming these are still running these days!

99376 ▶▶ Christopher, replying to Nicky, 3, #918 of 1168 🔗

Don’t worry just use the Tube , I have been commuting to work on the underground the past week , I have never worn a slave mask the and I have not once been challenged or even had any grief of any off the complying drones . It is about 90% compliance on the central line atm but most of the drones have them pulled down under their nose’s anyway , All i get is the odd stare from their soulless broken eyes , a stare of someone wishing they had the balls to not go along with this tyrannical Bullshit .
My Mrs is away in the midlands visiting family and said going maskless on the train up there was fine , she will not ware a mask either despite hating any form of confrontation . Roads in London are really busy as no one is using the tube.

99394 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Christopher, 3, #919 of 1168 🔗

Agree. I’ve not been using public transport in London much, but absolutely no issues going maskless when I have. If you can’t face a long distance train (or trains) then I agree, either driving to a station one stop outside London and getting a train in from there would work (Reading might be a good idea – plenty of services into town and it’s vaguely in the Wales direction), or driving to inner-surburban London, parking up and then travelling in should be fine too. Parking could be tricky, but far from impossible.

If you don’t fancy the tube, remember that the center of London really isn’t all that big. You could comfortably walk from Paddington to Trafalgar Sq. in half an hour, I would think.

99409 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to matt, 2, #920 of 1168 🔗

Rail bus replacements next weekend so getting up to London is not easy. That might affect you as well if you did it via Reading as the Reading-Waterloo line is bus between Staines and Hounslow…. But in general I have been using the trains recently with no issues, best to display your lanyard as sometimes mask ‘inspectors’ come on the trains.

99413 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to davews, 1, #921 of 1168 🔗

Didn’t know that. I was thinking of Reading to Paddington (the Reading – Waterloo route is a pain in the bum at the best of times). Is that shut too?

99422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to matt, 1, #922 of 1168 🔗

Reading to Paddington seems normal. I live five minutes walk from a station on the Waterloo line and even when there is engineering work costs a lot more to go via Reading.

99614 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to davews, #923 of 1168 🔗

Thanks to everyone who has given advice. I have no problem going maskless (or indeed travelling) on a train, but the timings of trains to do it in the day would be a problem where I am. Hence prefer to drive. Looking at maps etc, good tip for Stevenage I think – or further into Herts and get on the tube. Parking for the day is the main challenge I think. Thanks again to all.

99347 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 8, #924 of 1168 🔗

This appeared in the Daily Mail this morning: Nursing homes were bullied into accepting Covid patients from hospitals, damning report finds .
Of course, this is no surprise to people here. The report also states that some GPs and managers in homes put unlawful DNR orders on people. Again, no surprise. As an older person, I don’t want NHS treatment in future when they might decide that I’m not worth treating. I don’t trust the government and now I don’t trust the NHS. It’s a shame, since I come from the US (dual citizen), where we have little or no medical treatment unless you’ve got lots of money.

99353 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, 5, #925 of 1168 🔗

I doubt if there is anyone in the journalist community that have not known this for months just like the ONS stats showing fewer all deaths for the past 2 months.

99359 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to ConstantBees, 4, #926 of 1168 🔗

We don’t have DNR it was changed to DNACPR . Do Not Attempt CPR . These can only be put in place by a consultant level physician, certainly not the manager of a care home. These are very specific, if the person has a cardiac arrest then CPR should not be started.
It does not mean there shouldn’t be other interventions if the person is unwell, e.g. fluid resuscitation, antibiotics, analgesia.

99382 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to p02099003, 1, #927 of 1168 🔗

Thanks for the correction. I didn’t know that was the correct acronym. The article said “The research found GPs and local managers in some homes had placed unlawful do not resuscitate orders on residents” so I took it as read.

Again, a brief quote: “Another [nurse] reported being told to change the status of all the home’s residents to ‘do not resuscitate’ but said staff had refused to comply.

99385 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to p02099003, 2, #928 of 1168 🔗

I’ve tried searching the https://www.qni.org.uk/ site for the report and haven’t been able to find it. Perhaps someone else can. A quick search online shows all the papers talking about it, but no links to the report itself.

Since it sounds like you’re a medical professional, I’d be interested in your view of the report, if we can locate the text.

99395 ▶▶ Lili, replying to ConstantBees, 4, #929 of 1168 🔗

I’m not registered with the NHS any more, CB. We moved to a different part of the country a few years ago. I’d already opted out of the shared database nonsense but I completely disappeared off their radar once I’d moved. I have no intention of ever going near the NHS. My dentist is private and I take care of my own health with diet.

99349 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 14, #930 of 1168 🔗

The media treat the “R” as an indisputabile fact. It’s just a statistical estimate. The sort that Neil Ferguson is keen on.
When you look at people being tested on TV it looks like the most likely way to spread infections. They get close, put one swap in your mouth and then one up your nose. Are all the gloves & other PPE changed after each person’s tested? No
This is on the BBC website: “Coronavirus pandemic: Children aged 12 and over should wear masks – WHO”. Of course a couple months ago they were pointless.
The media and political class act as if they want to keep this going no matter what.

99351 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 15, #931 of 1168 🔗

Of course they want to keep it going to justify their massive overreaction. It really is like society is suffering from collective OCD and hypochondria. If the political class just let the fear die down, just as the virus is dying down, then people would likely drift back to normal of their own accord, but we can’t have that can we? Pharma hasn’t made enough money off this crisis just yet.

99352 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #932 of 1168 🔗

Rsole statistic that they can make seem important when few people actually understand it including me.

99364 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #933 of 1168 🔗

The R rate is really weird and when it changes nobody ever seems to have the good manners to tell you why? Perhaps it is because even they don’t know? It all seems to be done by sorcery, soothsaying and necromancy
Also, as there now seems to be a disparity between findings of virus traces and actual cases of Covid 19 disease/death, The R rate, like everything else, is getting us running around like headless chickens over test results even though death and disease have declined greatly.

99369 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #934 of 1168 🔗

R is just 1 with small variations and lots of estimation error.

It’s a bit like if you measured the width of your front door with a micrometer every morning and whenever the reading was above average spent the whole day terrified that the universe was just starting to explode.

99481 ▶▶▶ Allan Gay, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #935 of 1168 🔗

Given how dirty the data is, it’s surprising that they have the gall to hound us with statistical artifacts.

99506 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, #936 of 1168 🔗

Perhaps it’s like the archeologist ‘ritual object’, means they haven’t got a bloody clue.

99534 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #937 of 1168 🔗

The media treat the “R” as an indisputabile fact. It’s just a statistical estimate.”

Precisely – just as the term ‘excess deaths’ is also an artifact that can be recruited by the Scary Fairy. Always go for *actual* deaths in comparison with a sufficient time-series run.

99356 Albie, replying to Albie, 26, #938 of 1168 🔗

Chris Whitty saying missing school more damaging to kids than the virus. We knew this, he knew this, then why didn’t he come out with this months ago to tell the masses instead of being complicit in this propaganda campaign. I wish he would break rank and tell the truth about the rest of it. You could tell from his delivery at the briefings he knows this is a load of nonsense. He’s not on board in spirit or mind. I just wish he’d say what he really thought.

99371 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Albie, 6, #939 of 1168 🔗

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-chris-whitty-says-reopening-of-schools-will-put-pressure-on-the-r-number-12054491

“He has been joined by all the medical officers and deputy chief medical officers for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales in saying that children should return to school during the pandemic”

Er, should we still be calling it a pandemic? By Whitty’s use of the word he is continuing to perpetuate fear amongst parents.

Looking at the front pages today, MSM have clearly been given their orders. Getting schools back will replace local lockdowns, the rising R0 numbers and quarantine in the headlines this week.

99504 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, #940 of 1168 🔗

I asked a while back if the Covid has gone from epidemic to endemic can we still be in a pandemic, still none the wiser.

99532 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, #941 of 1168 🔗

should we still be calling it a pandemic”

The WHO actually weakened its definition of a pandemic before this, so that number of deaths was given less weight.

Currently, in this country, this doesn’t even rate as an epidemic (see CEBM articles on this)

99381 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Albie, 3, #942 of 1168 🔗

It would be interesting to see whether his risk assessment has any actual numbers on it.

99483 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Albie, 3, #943 of 1168 🔗

I don’t know, I thought he was on our side at the beginning but he’s said some truly idiotic things since so I’m no longer convinced!

99493 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #944 of 1168 🔗

Agree. Easy to see that there was a rift between him and Vallance in April, and that could be explained by Vallance’s obvious links to Big Pharma at the time when the vaccine lobby started to build up steam. More recently, I have wondered who/what got to Whitty too. He goes down with the rest of them now – he had his chance to come clean.

99494 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #945 of 1168 🔗

I always thought he was suppressing a smirk in the daily briefings.They are all bought and paid for.

99501 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Albie, 1, #946 of 1168 🔗

The man is a coward, he should speak or resign.

99360 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 31, #947 of 1168 🔗

A friend of mine (a mask wearer, but a sceptic) was in the process of removing his mask on emerging from the supermarket when he noticed a lady fumbling in her handbag, obviously looking for her mask. ‘Have you lost your mask’, he said, ‘Don’t worry, you can have mine’. She accepted it gratefully and put it on! This is the level of incomprehension we are dealing with folks.

99361 ▶▶ Nicky, replying to Basileus, 10, #948 of 1168 🔗

Seriously 😒 would they share a used hankie??

99499 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nicky, 1, #949 of 1168 🔗

Hankie ? Is that posh for snot rag ?

99367 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Basileus, 5, #950 of 1168 🔗

This sounds like fiction with a hint of realism!

99373 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Basileus, 10, #951 of 1168 🔗

Wow! I had a woman on the bus who asked if I had a spare mask. As if it would make sense to take one from me. It’s like masks are magic talismans – which they are.

99428 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to ConstantBees, 11, #952 of 1168 🔗

In France you would not be allowed on a bus if you didn’t have a mask. I can imagine asking someone in the queue if they had a spare just in order to get onto the bus. Which shows how low we’ve fallen. These days when my kids go out it’s: Got your keys, got your phone, got your money, got your mask? I hate it.

99398 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Basileus, 2, #953 of 1168 🔗

I’ve seen family members share a mask….

99404 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Fiat, 4, #954 of 1168 🔗

Er my kids do that. They don’t care. Yes they would share a hanky and the boy (11) still picks his nose and eats it. I’m not sure they’d accept a strangers mask though.

Weirdly despite their cavalier attitude to germs, (1) they are rarely unwell (not surprising to me) (2) they wear masks “because we have to”

They inherited my immune system and their father’s conformism.

99495 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basileus, #955 of 1168 🔗

My mum was a lifelong nurse spending many years in Bronchial and Dermatology departments.
She would have known all the dangers of prolonged misuse of masks, as for swapping them around ! ?

99549 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #956 of 1168 🔗

Share your bacteria, pool your viruses, promote … herd immunity? Armageddon? Acne?

99735 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Basileus, #957 of 1168 🔗

Not sure if that’s a joke or not but it made me laugh!

99368 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 16, #958 of 1168 🔗

Pure Gold.

https://www.time1075.net/161831-2-rainham-councillor-criticised-coronavirus-claims/

A very interesting development.

The response from the parent is quite unbelievable.

She clearly was expecting something different.

Illustrates what MSM have done.

99370 ▶▶ Sally, replying to hotrod, 22, #959 of 1168 🔗

“It comes across as if he’s saying that everything we have done is totally pointless and is actually harming our children rather than keeping them safe,” [the parent] said.

Well that’s not wrong!

99372 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Sally, 15, #960 of 1168 🔗

Exactly! Sounds like she was getting the point. And it’s not just the “far right” that understands the reality. There are plenty of us on the left who understand it as well.

99378 ▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to ConstantBees, 15, #961 of 1168 🔗

I have just sent a message of support to Councillor Durant. He may come in for some flak, but it looks like the latest from Chris Whitty supports his position.

99400 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Basileus, 5, #962 of 1168 🔗

Me too

99444 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Basileus, 4, #963 of 1168 🔗

And me

99384 ▶▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to ConstantBees, 8, #964 of 1168 🔗

It’s going to be very painful for people when they start to realise mummy doesn’t know best. For those true believers their sense of betrayal may be extreme. Ugly times ahead

99416 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to ConstantBees, 4, #965 of 1168 🔗

And quite a few in the centre as well!!!

99383 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Sally, 5, #966 of 1168 🔗

It’s the unwillingness to accept this, that she feels we must double down because it simply can’t be true. We need these people to realise this beyond doubt, then the true anger will come out and boot the politicians out for good.
Also, that article is so infuriating the way it treats her opinion as the correct one and the councillor as some crackpot conspiracy theorist. They claim the classic “all those experts over there say so” and of course have to pull the heart strings of “40000 dead people” to tell you that you must follow the rules or you will die. Sigh.

99389 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Youth_Unheard, 13, #967 of 1168 🔗

Yes. I thought this was the most telling statement:
““It comes across as if he’s saying that everything we have done is totally pointless and is actually harming our children rather than keeping them safe,” Stacey said. ”

Of course, that’s exactly what he’s saying and exactly what any of us here would say, but she absolutely does not want to hear that ‘everything we’ve done is completely pointless.’ She – and millions of others – need to believe that it’s all been worthwhile, otherwise they’ve been conned.

99393 ▶▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to matt, 2, #968 of 1168 🔗

The next steps are not binary, the government will be judged on how they manoeuvre out of their cul de sac.

99417 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to hotrod, 3, #969 of 1168 🔗

Cul de sac means ‘arse of bag’.
Best place for our Facist gov.

99470 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to hotrod, #970 of 1168 🔗

That’s why they need the vaccine, which if it does arrive will not be proven safe nor tested over time.

99403 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #971 of 1168 🔗

Just over a week ago it would have been reported as almost 50,000 dead. The fact that the death toll has been significantly revised down means nothing to these people.

99474 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, #972 of 1168 🔗

That same number was used of India last week, nobody said ‘didn’t we used to be like that?’.

99469 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #973 of 1168 🔗

The real anger will come when individuals realise they have been taken in by a simple con and they were idiotic enough to fall for it.

99379 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to hotrod, 9, #974 of 1168 🔗

‘propagate his own particular brand of extreme libertarian ideology.” A lot of words to say, he’s right. The mother sounds like a lot of them now, hysterical, but the media are to blame for the sheep getting like that, because if they said it helps to ward off the virus by standing on your head for 20mins a day they would do that too. The gullible have no OFF switch.

99412 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #975 of 1168 🔗

The use of the word “extreme libertarian ideology” is telling when all he is suggesting is going back to what would have been considered to be normal just a few short months ago. These are dark times.

99611 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alison9, #976 of 1168 🔗

Not so dark if they’re moving people toward a sensible political position. 🙂

99477 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #977 of 1168 🔗

Wow, not wearing a mask to go shopping is now “propagating my own brand of extreme libertarian ideology “, who’d have thunk it.

99388 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to hotrod, 5, #978 of 1168 🔗

“A spokesperson for Havering Council said: “As far as we’re aware, Councillor Durant is not a qualified medical professional or qualified public health expert.”

I love how papers always print statements like these as if they were a spontaneous response rather than an answer to a specific question.

99484 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, #979 of 1168 🔗

Councillor Durrant will be the first to be served a Special Administrative Detention Order (Spooks, series 5).

99491 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #980 of 1168 🔗

Well done Councillor Durant, we need more people like you, maybe a prominent role in a new political party. The article is such a set-up by the group of mummies that wants to keep their kids out of school. The main complainant’s child has asthma.

I can just imagine she makes him wear a mask (contraindicated) and that he is kept indoors all the time (vitamin D deficient) and that she cleans the house with antibacterials/bleach (no good bacteria left in him to fight infections).

99529 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, #981 of 1168 🔗

Don’t underestimate how much these people are genuinely fearful. That is what brainwashing does.That is it’s aim.

99391 ▶▶ Basics, replying to hotrod, 8, #982 of 1168 🔗

““I don’t feel comfortable even replying to him because I worry about what he is going to be saying to me next.”

That is one fragile person. Almost as though the words have been planted into her thoughts in my opinion.

99486 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #983 of 1168 🔗

“I don’t feel comfortable. . .” = “he should be taken out and shot”.

99396 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to hotrod, 6, #984 of 1168 🔗

Skeptic of the Week

99425 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to hotrod, #985 of 1168 🔗

Why can’t they just boycott quietly?

99435 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to hotrod, 2, #986 of 1168 🔗

This is the group I’ve joined on FB. It’s hilarious/tragic, “lambs to the slaughter ” is an oft repeated phrase! If people post anything to counter the “schools as slaughterhouses ” narrative they get jumped on/blocked. Those poor children. Their petition was at 88,000 earlier in the week

99538 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to hotrod, 1, #987 of 1168 🔗

David Durant – now there’s a man I could vote for – an Independent councillor in every sense of the word!
Details here:
https://democracy.havering.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=125
I’ve sent a message of support – I bet he’s feeling very isolated at the moment.

99540 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to hotrod, #988 of 1168 🔗

Send him an e-mail of support:

councillordavid.durant@havering.gov.uk

I think he will appreciate it.

99548 ▶▶ annie, replying to hotrod, #989 of 1168 🔗

I’ve e-mailed him to express my appreciation.
He’ll get a lot of flack, so I’m sure messages of support are worthwhile.

99584 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to hotrod, #990 of 1168 🔗

“It comes across as if he’s saying that everything we have done is totally pointless and is actually harming our children rather than keeping them safe,” Stacey said.

Well, at least she seems able to read. A start.

99374 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 14, #991 of 1168 🔗

Its beginning to look very much like Boris was right with his herd immunity approach and that the ‘scientists’ were able to scam our hapless politicians into mass incompetence, now that its dawning on the politicians they begin digging an even deeper hole to cover up their mess.

99407 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #992 of 1168 🔗

It wouldn’t have been Boris’s idea. The way I see it, as the numbers rose and it looked like it was going exponential they got spooked. Any model would have shown the same trajectory. All epidemics stop at some point but there was no way they could take the chance, I can forgive them for thinking this.

Unfortunately the resulting panicked response caused more people to die making things seem even worse. Then countries that were lucky (I put it more down to random luck than actions taken) enough to avoid mass infection started showing low death numbers so Britain’s response started to look like a big mistake.

Now it’s a case of once bitten, twice shy. It is unlikely to ever be as bad as before, partly because our response wouldn’t be to create the situation that increases the risk of death like before, but mainly because they won’t allow it to happen again.

So now we’re stuck simply because of random chance where some countries managed to avoid getting hit badly. The whole world seems to think that we can and should try to emulate those countries. The logic is no different to saying Mr X managed to eradicate the virus from their house therefore every country in the world should be able to do it.

99498 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, #993 of 1168 🔗

countries that were lucky”

The obvious thing is that we don’t know the factors affecting the spread of Covid – the ‘luck’ lies in those unknown variables, as Karl Friston has pointed out – not in any governmental actions.

99466 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #994 of 1168 🔗

Seems to me they are doing everything they can to stop us achieving herd immunity. Young folk up north going out and about harmlessly infecting each other to the long term benefit of all. What do they get = lockdown.
Leicester, medium city.
Manchester, large city.
Birmingham, largest city outside of…
Guess where’s next ?

99496 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, #995 of 1168 🔗

The fact is that population immunity (the term ‘herd’ is counterproductive) is a natural phenomenon. It isn’t a strategy as such – there is only the question of how you achieve it.

But don’t mollycoddle Mr Toad with a blanket of scientific advice. He has enjoyed driving his new car – and made the decision – such a weak narcissist as he is capable of any such train of thought.

99728 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dan Clarke, #996 of 1168 🔗

I believe masks have been mandated to gain herd immunity. My observations of people wearing them sees them touching their faces multiple times during wearing them transferring whatever they have touched to their face, then there is the constant transfer to the mask, the finally the false sense of security so people stop other protective measures such as washing hands and hand sanitiser. The sheep can’t see that they’re being played!

99387 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 16, #997 of 1168 🔗

Depressing experience in vision express. Informed in advance that off spring was exempt. Told that was fine but for examination would need to wear a mask. Fair dos we think as close proximity, however much based on a myth about prevalence of this ‘deadly’ virus. Anyhow due to age of off spring, I have to accompany. Sat there maskless and assistant asks me if I would like a mask and I say no thank you, exempt. Even behind his mask can see mouth purse and eyes rolled. He flounced around sterilising all surfaces then when he got back to reception desk, proceeded to pull his mask down. I can’t work out what the masked masses are thinking? I can only conclude that it is a badge of honour to show solidarity in the current crisis. Goes hand in hand with NHS idolatry. I find this brainwashing alarming.

99392 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Fed up, 7, #998 of 1168 🔗

Bet he was out every week clapping

99461 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fed up, 2, #999 of 1168 🔗

Completely opposite during my recent visit to my car main dealer, despite being advised I would need a mask neither staff nor customers wore them and the service manager half knelt right beside me to go through the inspection report.
(Can’t believe I’m posting this as of significance!)

99489 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fed up, 2, #1000 of 1168 🔗

I can’t work out what the masked masses are thinking?”

That’s the problem. It isn’t covered with the term ‘thinking’.

99399 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #1001 of 1168 🔗

The gullible have no off switch, if it wasn’t covid it would be something else.

99458 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1002 of 1168 🔗

Giving up India
Cold War
New ice age,
Peak oil.
AIDS,
IRA,
Acid rain
Ozone layer
Islamic Fundamentalists
Saars
Swine flu
Mad cow disease
Year 2000

Off the top of my head, I expect there were others.

99482 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1003 of 1168 🔗

Acid, as you say, rain.

!

99401 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 2, #1004 of 1168 🔗

R RATE REFRESHER COURSE run by Lockdown Sceptics

Anyone like to start us off?

99406 ▶▶ matt, replying to Steeve, 16, #1005 of 1168 🔗

Step 1) think of a number within a few decimal points of 1
Step 2) pretend it means something

99473 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, 2, #1006 of 1168 🔗

About every 2-4 weeks, announce that you’re not confident that it’s below 1. That way you’re covering all your bases and it makes it look like you’re really doing something.

99476 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steeve, 3, #1007 of 1168 🔗

Conveniently forget that R is a completely useless measure at the end of an epidemic. It sounds like Science, so use it.

99487 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1008 of 1168 🔗

There’s a marvellous clip of Professor Michael Levitt demolishing (amongst other things) use of the ‘R’ number in the face of a blustering member of the ICL crew. Perhaps someone has the link? Or has it been censored?

99526 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, #1009 of 1168 🔗

I think a while back when they first invented R, even ICL themselves stated that they had very little confidence in their ability to model it accurately.

99528 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to A. Contrarian, #1010 of 1168 🔗

Here is the Levitt clip

https://youtu.be/_1u_yworTco

99402 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 3, #1011 of 1168 🔗
99439 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to flyingjohn, 1, #1012 of 1168 🔗

Your last line gave me the first chuckle of the day. It would have also stopped her former boyfriend – the last one before she became pansexual – being attacked!

99442 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #1013 of 1168 🔗

Do you mean she’s developed an unhealthy attraction to kitchen utensils?

99405 flyingjohn, 24, #1014 of 1168 🔗

Mandatory mask wearing is nothing to do with public health or Covid-19.

99408 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 8, #1015 of 1168 🔗

The dictator has announced ’10k fines for organisers of illegal raves’ from Friday

In typical half truth hysterical propaganda the BBC announces this tripe to the half witted population

What they don’t do is define what a ‘rave’ is in legal terms. Why? because they can’t

The legislation would also encompass for example the organisers of the village fete if more than 30 people turned up

If the dictator can get 10K out of the Womens Institute then he’s a better man than I am Gunga Din

On this point, does anyone know

1 How many fixed penalty notices have been issued?
2 How many have been paid?
3 How many pleaded ‘not guilty”?
4 How many ‘not guilty pleas’ has the Crown Prosecution Service taken to court, and what was the result?

Anyone have any examples?

99423 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cecil B, 9, #1016 of 1168 🔗

They are missing the underlying cause – these raves happen because clubs (and other places of fun) are closed

99455 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Victoria, 6, #1017 of 1168 🔗

Agree, the headline should read ’10k fines for organisers of any form of enjoyment or fun’

There is an old adage ‘don’t bark unless you are going to bite’

The dictator is doing lots of barking, but with a nil conviction rate there is very little biting going on

Perhaps the attack dog is toothless

When people realise there is no sanction they will just do as they please, can’t wait

99443 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1018 of 1168 🔗

None will have gone to court because courts are not functioning and have a, thus far, 5 month backlog.
I’ve heard of just one fine being issued by a BTP Officer to a bloke who spoke to him “like a complete knob”.
Probably true or said bloke would have concocted a spurious Disability Exemption.

Predicting tomorrow: someone’s opening conversation gambit “have you heard they’re gonna fine you 10 grand for not wearing a mask now”.

99448 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1019 of 1168 🔗

A picture appears to be emerging of not one successful prosecution in the criminal courts in six months. Why would that be I wonder?

99451 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1020 of 1168 🔗

Prisons have been operating normally as self isolated single bubbles, neither the Governors nor inmates would welcome new arrivals.

99456 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1021 of 1168 🔗

Pretty sure (couldn’t find it just now) Simon Dolan mentioned a FOI request, where the Met Police said they had not issued any fines.

99460 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1022 of 1168 🔗

Be sure, if they had successfully prosecuted any ‘covidiots’ they would be screaming it from the rooftops

Which raises the important point…. if no one has ever been successfully prosecuted why do they need the legislation in the first place?

99500 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1023 of 1168 🔗

To keep the sheeples bleating in terror.

99478 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1024 of 1168 🔗

… this is about protests too. Gathering organisers. Raves are the camoflage.

99414 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1025 of 1168 🔗

This person made a good point on Twitter. I wondered recently if Asian countries (or similar) have a more even spread of immunity because of communal eating and sharing food from the same plates. It would be something interesting to look at anyway:

Sanjeev Sabhlok, Pope @Church of Reason & Liberty
@sabhlok
Replying to
@MarkChangizi
Children mingling with grandparents boosts resistance to viruses that do not leave behind lifelong immunity. That’s a key reason why death rates are extremely low in India: people keep getting the cold. If grand parents live in a bubble they’ll die early.

99432 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1026 of 1168 🔗

Hindus and Sikhs also have a better grasp of risk assessment than most Brits now seem to, as posted by someone a few days ago, building their own herd immunity to protect their vulnerable, and ours along the way.

99441 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to karenovirus, 11, #1027 of 1168 🔗

My view on this has always been that people who see or experience more death/tragedy/generally bad things have a better grasp of reality.

It starts from when we’re young. We trip and fall, we learn how to avoid it. If we see or learn of another child getting run over we learn to avoid that too.

People who never experience bad things have no reference point with which to assess risk.

99446 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1028 of 1168 🔗

It’s one reason why children are allowed to have small rodents to pet, they die quite often and softens them up for nan going.

99457 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1029 of 1168 🔗

Plus the old Eastern European communist countries having more recently had democracy value it properly.

99497 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1030 of 1168 🔗

That’s why the worst zombies are young adults, the cotton-wool generation.

99421 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 3, #1031 of 1168 🔗

https://conservativewoman.co.uk/bbc-blunderers-get-it-wrong-wrong-wrong/

Reading an article Toby listed a couple of days ago and saw this. Spot on

99427 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Marie R, 3, #1032 of 1168 🔗

Spot on as usual.
Bastards at Google always put Conservative Woman at the bottom of my ‘recent searches’, which I use as a mini ‘favourites’ on my Android, despite going there every day.

99454 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1033 of 1168 🔗

Use duck duck go as search engine and if eventually google goes down the pan then happy days !

99517 ▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #1034 of 1168 🔗

Been using duck duck go for a couple of months now…. Excellent

99485 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1035 of 1168 🔗

Google censors the information they don’t want you to see – definitely not reliable. DuckDuckGo is a great search engine.

Thanks for the link to this great article.

99600 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to karenovirus, #1036 of 1168 🔗

Try yandex the russian search engine, does turn up things others don’t sometimes.

99426 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 13, #1037 of 1168 🔗

From listening to the review of the papers after the news at 7 on radio 4 I wondered if there was a lot more scepticism and maybe the tide was turning.
I have had a number of Facebook posts from public bodies….Public Health Advice, NHS, WHO with covid related advice. The cynicism and hatred in the comments is huge. I’ve started commenting “Rally 29 August 12 noon Trafalgar square for freedom ” , perhaps we all should, if we get these stupid public awareness posts?

99430 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Marie R, 4, #1038 of 1168 🔗

Good for you: I don’t do Facebook and I’ve had a self induced gutfull of beeb Radio this week.

99437 ▶▶ Alice, replying to Marie R, 5, #1039 of 1168 🔗

Yes, I think we should – the protest would then become bigger and wider, not just Stand Up X. If any of the London sceptics are going to the protest, could we meet up? I’m not sure how this can be organised, any ideas? I’d be happy to bring a large sheet of paper with lockdownsceptics.org written on it. Would that be a good idea?

99449 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Alice, 5, #1040 of 1168 🔗

I’ll be the man in the trilby with an umbrella and rolled up copy of the Telegraph; nearly forgot, I won’t be wearing a mask, should be easy to spot.

99465 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Alice, 1, #1041 of 1168 🔗

Great idea. I m not London based but planning to go. I d like to meet up.

99562 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to watashi, 1, #1042 of 1168 🔗

What about designating a statue, or a specific lion, at a given time ? e.g. south lion, 12:30 ?

99445 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Marie R, #1043 of 1168 🔗

Sadly, there isn’t.

99429 Dan Clarke, 3, #1044 of 1168 🔗

The news program in the new year on discovery sounds good, maybe get some unbiased UK news finally

99434 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1045 of 1168 🔗

Annie, are you Stig Abell by any chance? Yesterday you mentioned an author I’d not heard of – Ursula Le Guin, and this morning Stig has a column in The Times referencing said author. Coincidence? 😉

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stig-abell-on-patriotism-zprxvnzm8

99492 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1046 of 1168 🔗

I wasn’t Stig Abell when I went to bed yesterday, but maybe somebody swapped us over during the night and neither of us noticed?

99447 NappyFace, replying to NappyFace, 14, #1047 of 1168 🔗

Those going to the protest- please make every effort not to let them label you as far right loons.

99464 ▶▶ watashi, replying to NappyFace, #1049 of 1168 🔗

on the 29th? is there one today?

99480 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to NappyFace, 1, #1050 of 1168 🔗

Why,they will do it anyway

99570 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1051 of 1168 🔗

Yep, that’s there MO.

99452 PaulC, replying to PaulC, 24, #1052 of 1168 🔗

Just noticed the photo at the top of the BBC’s web page.

Two masked children queuing for school.

Have emailed the BBC:
When and where was this photo taken?
Why are you showing two young children in masks when government guidance clearly states children are exempt from wearing face coverings?

I don’t expect a reply!

99459 ▶▶ anon, replying to PaulC, 6, #1053 of 1168 🔗

bbc = british brainwashing corporation

99463 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to anon, 4, #1054 of 1168 🔗

or bbc= british bullshitting corporation

99555 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to watashi, 3, #1055 of 1168 🔗

Buggering British Children.

99576 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to anon, 2, #1056 of 1168 🔗

Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation

99453 Tim Bidie, 8, #1057 of 1168 🔗

Since this country is clearly on a war footing, fighting a war to ‘Save Our NHS’, no mention of Queen and country, I believe this website should adopt, as one of its missions, the renaming of England; new name ‘Our NHS’.

If we look like, and behave like, a self licking lollipop, then we might as well name our country after the leading brand of that item.

99462 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1058 of 1168 🔗
99553 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1059 of 1168 🔗

It’s ending as soon as enough people recognise it as total bollocks.

99467 Paul, replying to Paul, 13, #1060 of 1168 🔗

My cousin lives in the US,in a small town in northern Oregon.Two weeks ago the couple who live next door decided they wanted to have a Covid test,god knows why.They went to Portland on the appointed day for the tests but when they got to the test centre there was a huge queue and they were told the wait would be at least an hour and a half,they judged the wait would probably be twice that so they gave up and went home instead.
A couple of days ago they both received letters saying they had tested positive for CV !.This is what I have been thinking for a long time,they can claim anyone is positive even without a test,how could you prove they are lying ?.My GP surgery keeps pestering me that I am months past the due date of my annual full blood tests and I keep telling them I am not giving a sample of anything to anyone at the moment,I don’t trust any of the bastards.

99475 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Paul, 6, #1061 of 1168 🔗

I think that the reminder from your surgery will be OK (I am a regular pin-cushion). But you’re quite right to avoid a PCR test, which is as useful as an udder on a bull – but collectively as dangerous as a herd of cows with calves.

But I understand where you’re coming from. This shambolic panicdemic has eroded trust in the most fundamental areas of society – not least of which is the breakdown of normal working relationships with GPs, who have been drawn into this collective madness of hysterical risk assessment.

99479 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Paul, 8, #1062 of 1168 🔗

Read an article the other day confirming these positive Covid tests in the US when people abort the wait and go home. This is clearly fraud, a test was not done, how could it be positive?

99511 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Paul, 2, #1063 of 1168 🔗

They urgently need to contact Dr Pam Popper via her website. She is looking for cases in the US exactly like those experienced by your cousin’s neighbours. She will be able to help them.

99512 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Mr Dee, #1064 of 1168 🔗

great name!

99468 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 7, #1065 of 1168 🔗

I never thought the day would come but I’m missing the continuous mirth and merriment that the test and trace service used to offer us almost daily. The days when ALL of the staff at a test centre tested positive for the outbreak, and the trace service couldn’t handle the caseload because the outbreak occurred in the same location. Laugh, I nearly pi55ed myself:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/covid-19-cases-lanarkshire-track-22395671

I’m sure that like me you’ll be much happier that the tracking element is now in the hands of our fantastically skilled local authorities, in Greater Manchester it’s being headed up by ‘eyeliner’ Andy Burnham, the man who’s only just discovered that the majority of ‘homeless’ beggars in Manchester City centre actually have homes. Who’d have thought it? According to the WHO we’ve only got to put up with this for another 2 years as long as we have our ‘regular’ vaccination every 3-6 months ………..

99556 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mike Collins, 1, #1066 of 1168 🔗

Love the ‘eyeliner’ thing. He’s got Action Man hair, too (the original painted kind). Oh, and annoyingly, he’s still breathing.

100143 ▶▶ Monica Nieves, replying to Mike Collins, #1067 of 1168 🔗

14 cases would shut down a whole university in America.

99471 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1068 of 1168 🔗

Devi moaned that she had spent another saturday working on Covid policy and scientific advice. Devi wanted people to think she had spent most of her Saturday looking at the situation of 1 billion children out of school worldwide with ~400 million children no longer getting free school meals. It was as if they didn’t realise hunger for children must be virtue signalled. Could they not be hungry on a week day? It was a Saturday and devi resented that.
If nothing else devi was going to make damn sure people knew she was afflicted by having her Saturday taken, once again.

Earlier in the day devi had enjoyed putting her name to a letter Gordon and wife [yes] Brown had written on behalf of 274 odd world leaders. She had squeezed her name in and had been told wasn’t there to bulk out the numbers, afterall she was a nice person, people followed her on twitter and so that is virtually the same as being elected by the public. Signing her name hadn’t been so bad, it had taken little time from her Saturday. It was a little naughty to skim the letter before signing but there were some big names on there and a few she even knew herself. Overall yes, it was true devi was not a world leader and it was nice of Devi to say so, people would really like her honesty. People would also see how devi was right to have become angry after her Satutday was taken from her and so spat out a little towards that horrid man Trump.

Even though devi wasn’t a world leader it was good of her to thoughtfully point out that she, devi, was still waiting for Pence’s miracle for the pandemic. This too she had done on her Saturday. How obnoxious is that man Trump to have left devi waiting for a pandemic miracle, it was as if Trump had deliberately upset devi’s weekend plans.

All of this had left devi over-worked and feeling decidedly grumpy. She didn’t have time to think for herself about how to write she knew Trump would cheat in the US election. To say he knew he needs to cheat to all her own fans would have been a perfect end to a very nasty Saturday. Luck was still on devi’s side though when, her old boss just so happened at that very moment to send out a tweet saying that Trump knows he needs to cheat to win. It was as though devi and her old boss were still so close thinking alike after all this time. How perfect! Oh, how devi missed her Miami days. Saturday would be complete by endorsing these stronng and accurate words.

Devi Sridhar
@devisridhar
·
14h
Strong & accurate words from my former boss @DonnaShalala
who was President of Univ of Miami and Secretary of Health & Human Services.
Quote Tweet

Donna E. Shalala
@DonnaShalala
· 14h Trump is a cheater.

He is undermining #USPS because he knows he needs to cheat to win in November.

Donna and Devi both ‘know’ what Trump knows – that he needs to cheat to win. By the same measure I know what devi is thinking. She is a public health chosen leader. Completely out of control, and dare I say ill equiped, in the political realm.

99488 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Basics, 1, #1069 of 1168 🔗

I must admit I have come to hate Devi. I am so glad for all Carl Heneghan has done as it all shows how wrong she is

99519 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Basics, #1070 of 1168 🔗

Lovely.

99502 Lord Rickmansworth WillyWanks the 4th, replying to Lord Rickmansworth WillyWanks the 4th, 3, #1071 of 1168 🔗

🍺 Hi guys, it’s in it’s infancy, but hopefully you like my podcast ‘Bedwetters’ although I might change the name (as proposed by others on this excellent forum) please reply with any suggestions. Also email us your stories at bedwetterspodcast@gmail.com HERES THE LATEST EPISODE: https://open.spotify.com/show/4TvMounXNnJPuycMbn3kj7?si=Cn3CuJopTsS-epleLTHDGw (will be listed on itunes in a week or two)

Enjoyed your first episode. I agree the name should be changed; at the moment you are preaching only to the converted but I hope you might be aiming to gently re-educate some of the “bedwetters” and “sheeple” who have swallowed the propaganda churned out by the Government and the MSM. Insulting them is no way to get them to listen. To be fair, most people believe what they are told and this has given a fascinating insight into how propagandists like Goebbels were able to convince their target populations to swallow the lies they were telling.

99503 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #1073 of 1168 🔗

Think I’ll spend the afternoon sending an e-mail to this bunch of tossers asking them about their advice to their members and also what they think of the DELVE analysis into asked hamsters as science.

https://www.bma.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/get-in-touch/contact-us

Plus a pic attached below, any ideas what it means?

I know aha I thought the first time I saw it but want to know if I’m alone on this or others think the same, bit like a survey.

On that not has anyone filled in this survey?:

https://wh.snapsurveys.com/s.asp?k=159774515689 – for the House of Lords

I did, let rip in the comments.

99516 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Awkward Git, #1074 of 1168 🔗

Blue Missile heading for the US. Blue inverted A for agenda 20 blue democrats??????

99597 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stefarm, #1075 of 1168 🔗

My first thought as well – destruction of America in 2020.

99646 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1076 of 1168 🔗

I get 2, D2, funny blue arrow, suppose it means 20, D 20, Democrat 20, that means the funny splat must be America. Then I think, the fucks Alaska and Hawaii gone? Then after minutes away I return and wonder why is the blue arrow overlaying a white arrow.

See macdonalds M think burger.

See that above and know its a failure as a logo coding a message. Why are democrats wanting to confuse their message – this will be deliberate.

I’m off topic again and will stop wandering off.

99505 Aremen, 2, #1077 of 1168 🔗

I’ve just caught the end of an interview with Richard Madeley on the Kevin O’Sullivan programme on Talk Radio today (Sunday) at 10.15am ish. Totally in agreement with our views. Could he be the high profile celeb we need? I’m in no state mentally to chase this. Anyone fancy trying to contact him? He’s on holiday just now in France, but clearly still doing interviews.

99508 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #1078 of 1168 🔗

I found this petition on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed – it has presumably been flagged here, but just in case …
It’s to stop restrictions being placed on those who didn’t take the vaccine:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442
Up to near 90,000 signatures.

99513 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to BTLnewbie, #1079 of 1168 🔗

Aha. Thought I’d signed that one, but it must have been another one. So, done!

99527 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to thedarkhorse, #1080 of 1168 🔗

Signed. I also thought I had done that one already, must be another very similarly worded one.

99546 ▶▶ annie, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #1081 of 1168 🔗

At 100,000 they have to debate it in parliament. Will be soon.

99550 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, 2, #1082 of 1168 🔗

It’s ‘considered’ for debate. Their answer to petitions asking them to stop something is always “We’re not going to do that”. And the debates consist of “Well, we’ve talked about that now, and we’re still not doing it”.

Remember, these are the people who ignored the biggest democratic exercise ever, because they didn’t like the result. But just four years later (while still ignoring that result), they really upped their game…

99615 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to BTLnewbie, #1083 of 1168 🔗

Intrigued at the number of signatures on that petition, considering there is only 30K on the “mask in shops” one.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

99874 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, #1084 of 1168 🔗

… over 90,000 now and climbing steadily today.
If it comes up for debate it may at least raise some public awareness of the risk of making the vaccine ‘mandatory by the back door’

99509 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #1085 of 1168 🔗

A very irritating article in the Observer.

Why do Covid fatalities remain low when infection numbers are rising?
<blah, blah>

Does that indicate that the worst may be over?
No. Other researchers point to the situation in the US where there was a recent spike in cases among people in their 20s and 30s – but which was then followed by a spike in cases in older people who picked up the disease from younger people. As a result, there has been a jump in deaths.

<blah, blah>

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/23/why-do-covid-fatalities-remain-low-when-infection-numbers-are-rising

First thing, it’s written in that style the BBC uses all the time: answering its own ‘questions’. It implies that the reader may not be able to formulate their own questions, so they have to do it for them. Or that the reader might ask the ‘wrong’ questions, so the paper answers its own, instead – politicians do it in interviews, a lot.

Or someone, somewhere, has decided that this style is less ‘pedagogical’ than simply making statements – which was probably triggering some people, and discriminating against women. Or something.

Second, it’s the wording above that does the opposite of remaining open to question. There was, apparently a spike in cases in young people (no possibility that it’s due to increased testing, of course) that was followed by a spike cases in older people (ditto) and that this was definitely due to them picking ‘it’ up from the younger people. And then there was a definite result in a jump in deaths. Is this true?

They’re very definite about this, but at the same time, apparently, Doctors are unsure exactly what is going on”, and these issues remain unresolved and will require many more months, if not years of research, to work out, scientists warn.” So do these ‘Doctors’ and ‘scientists’ understand it, or not?

You could take any scientific question and find ‘scientists’ who don’t agree with each other. They will never agree. What is society supposed to do about it? Go into suspended animation forever, while they argue about it?

Perhaps we need some non-scientific perspective. I would start with some simple logic.

99515 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1086 of 1168 🔗

Perhaps we need some non-scientific perspective. I would start with some simple logic.

Agree. Any one on LS can answer this

99522 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1087 of 1168 🔗

That question and answer style is very irritating and patronising. It puts me off bothering to ready the article as it feels quite dumb down.

99510 Cecil B, 11, #1088 of 1168 🔗

The Dictator announces 10k fines for the organisers of ‘illegal’ gatherings

Who decides what is legal or illegal, yes you guessed it, the dictator

All forms of protest involving more than thirty people are now banned

Worse here than Belarus

99518 wendy, replying to wendy, 7, #1089 of 1168 🔗

Carl Heneghan and his team at Oxfords CEBM have done some work on estimating IFR which they give as 0.49 to 0.3. And it looks like they expect it to go down as they will update the research.

He also has an article in The Spectator on whether the PCR tests showing positive are really showing an infectious person. He talks about weak positives.

The other thing of interest is there is all this ranting in the media about increased infection rates and yet the ONS infection survey is not showing an uptick.

When schools go back and if no uptick, no increase in hospital admissions and no increase in deaths, well no significant increases anyway, let’s hope there will be a turning point.

99523 ▶▶ NickR, replying to wendy, 3, #1090 of 1168 🔗

And Carl Heneghan is in the Express today, putting the case well.

99525 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to NickR, 1, #1091 of 1168 🔗

Oh, thanks for that, I will take a look. He makes my day much happier.

99536 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to DocRC, 1, #1093 of 1168 🔗

It’s very encouraging his message is getting out. I so hope there will be a turning point soon as so many people are continuing to suffer from lack of medical care and from the terrible restrictions in care homes, as well as lots more

99537 ▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to DocRC, 2, #1094 of 1168 🔗

They should get rid of Whitty and install Heneghan as Chief Medical Officer forthwith!

99542 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to DocRC, 1, #1095 of 1168 🔗

I hate to be cynical but it is more likely they will try to get rid of Heneghan. MW

99547 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1096 of 1168 🔗

I think you might be right. Heneghan’s piece should be all over the news – it’s good news! It’s what people need to hear, “things are getting better”. But no, it’s just quiet Sunday filler.

Meanwhile, they say the R rate is ‘soaring’, and has ‘surged’ past 1…

Also, I’ve just seen a dramatic 100% increase in cups of coffee drunk this morning.

99569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, #1097 of 1168 🔗

Perhaps we can all forward the express piece to as many people as possible?

99568 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1098 of 1168 🔗

Well he’s quite well connected BMJ and Oxford. I surely hope it would be hard to dismiss him.

99565 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to DocRC, #1099 of 1168 🔗

Oh yes please. That would do the job!!

99545 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DocRC, 1, #1100 of 1168 🔗

Fancy : in the ‘Express!”

What a refreshing breath of sanity.

99520 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 4, #1101 of 1168 🔗

https://youtu.be/rdI2YCh0FhA

Interesting documentary about the foot and mouth crisis. An interesting parallel with this current shit show.

99535 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stefarm, 4, #1102 of 1168 🔗

Same people involved from Imperial as well wasn’t it?

99543 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1103 of 1168 🔗

Yes, modelling from Ferguson et al was responsible for the culling of millions of animals costing billions of pounds on Blair’s watch. Their model assumed airborne spread of the virus (despite practising and academic Vets telling them this was false) so they advised the slaughter of animals on contiguous farms and the Government listened to the nonsense. Sound familiar?

99564 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to DocRC, 3, #1104 of 1168 🔗

I don’t understand how Ferguson has kept his job. But I also blame whoever is advising Boris, would that be the oh so super intelligent Dominic C? If they had any intelligence they would listen to Carl Heneghan now before the fall out on them is too great.

99571 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to wendy, 4, #1105 of 1168 🔗

Blair, in the Shadows, advising for the Blair Foundation for Global Change linked to the Gates Foundation for Global Change

99621 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Dan Clarke, #1106 of 1168 🔗

I loathe that slug with a passion. If there was any justice he’d be dead and buried!

99582 ▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to wendy, 2, #1107 of 1168 🔗

Too late for no10 inmates IMO. I’ll never believe a word ‘they’ say ever again.

99599 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to wendy, 3, #1108 of 1168 🔗

Johnson deserves everything he gets. Cummings and Ferguson have both presented him with gilt edged opportunities to be chucked under a bus, along with all this nonsense, and he had failed to use them, admit they misled him and the whole strategy has been complete bollocks.

99618 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to wendy, #1109 of 1168 🔗

They knew Ferguson would give the worst possible scenario, so they went with him knowing he was useless.

People should wake up to this being deliberate! This was no cockup!

99521 smurfs, replying to smurfs, 37, #1110 of 1168 🔗

Just remember folks, we are not alone!

This site is a great resource for like minded people to share and support each other but I must tell you that **nothing** beats mixing face-to-face with fellow sceptics.

My story…

I achieved a first yesterday and travelled from Cork to attend my first ever protest – the Time for Change meet up in Dublin. I went alone and did not know what to expect. There was a heavy Gardai/Police presence when I arrived at Custom House and they had already erected metal barriers across the main road leading to the meeting point. Many protesters must have arrived earlier as they were already outside the building entrance. I found the heavy police presence intimidating. A man just ahead of me was causing a stir and got bundled into the back of a van, so I stayed well clear. To be fair I don’t know if police actions were aimed at preventing a small but rabid group of antifa hoodlums (which they had kettled in) from causing chaos, or an attempt to prevent the peaceful protest going ahead – may be is was a mix of both?

Anyway, word quickly filtered through the crowd streaming in of an unguarded access point we could use so hundreds of us jumped at the opportunity. This was soon sealed off. Hundreds more that did not make it lined the barriers. Weirdly the sight of this reminded me of the 1980’s Spandau Ballet song ‘Through the Barricades’. After a 20-30 minute standoff and possibly the intervention of some persuasive people, the Gardai, to their credit, came to their senses and began letting people through. This was a great outcome but one that delayed the start by half an hour or so. I suspect many people may have given up prior to this standoff but nevertheless we were now a sizable crowd of around 5000 fully faced sceptics standing shoulder to shoulder when things eventually kicked off.

All of the speakers were outstanding and worked the crowd for over 2 1/2 hours, including the irrepressible Dolores Cahill. The focus of many speeches centered around the impact on society of the ludicrous lockdown restrictions, masks, and mandatory vaccinations – no mention of Gates, Soros, WEF, WHO, etc. These are all topics we are familiar with nevertheless you can find some of the videos here so no need to go into to much detail. I urge you to watch them yourself.

Incidentally there was one speaker who addressed homelessness which is something I hadn’t really considered. It is something we are going to see a lot more of with the economic fallout of this insanity. It is just unfortunate the speaker did not use the opportunity to link the impact of C19 policy on the homelessness to come, so it came across as a bit of an local election pitch to me, with little relevance to our global struggle. That said the message is important and something we must not lose sight of.

After the final speech the crowd were calling for a march on the Dáil (Parliament) to wrap up the protest. I don’t think there was much appetite amongst the organisers on this occasion as it was getting late so at that point the crowd started melting away, including myself after I bid farewell to some new friends as I set off on my 4 hour journey back home.

All said and done, I can say without reservation that I have never felt so alive after the months of isolation and suppression. I am now fully invigorated and will continue the struggle in whatever way I can.

To all of you sceptics in the UK, no matter where you live, I urge you to get to the protest in London next week. If not to keep the momentum going, then to maintain your sanity – protesting is good for the soul!

99524 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to smurfs, 5, #1111 of 1168 🔗

Smurfs- Well Done!! I’ve been debating going to the Scottish event as I too have never been to a protest. Your post has inspired me – bring it on!!

99609 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #1112 of 1168 🔗

When and where is the Scottish event?

99650 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #1113 of 1168 🔗

There is one on 5th Sept at holyrood. I don’t know more offhand. Try searching social media. I think this board could stand more protest dates and places being posted.

99541 ▶▶ annie, replying to smurfs, 4, #1114 of 1168 🔗

Great news, great post, congratulations to you and to all those involved.

99559 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to smurfs, 2, #1115 of 1168 🔗

Good report, glad it was a peaceful event, the last thing needed is trouble.

99531 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1116 of 1168 🔗

https://twitter.com/BaizuoBu/status/1297442345919504384/photo/1

A very nice graphic presentation in 3d of pandemics in the US with C-19 in perspective

99539 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, #1117 of 1168 🔗

An excellent contextual graphic.

I take it it didn’t come from the BBC? 🙂

99573 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to RickH, #1118 of 1168 🔗

Definitely not

99579 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to DocRC, #1120 of 1168 🔗

sorry can’t post the graphic but the link above takes you to it. Brilliant analysis and gives the lie to Covid-19 being out of the ordinary!

99544 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 8, #1121 of 1168 🔗

I realise someone else has commented on this, but let’s flag it up as much as poss. BBC News homepage has a picture of two young children in school uniform, clearly well under 12, or whatever the required age is, seemingly in a queue, anti-socially distanced, both wearing masks. There is no requirement for such young children to be wearing masks. This is outrageous fear-mongering by the BBC. I would complain, but there’s no point, as the BBC fobs off complaints, as I documented on here a couple of days ago.

99558 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Aremen, 3, #1122 of 1168 🔗

BBC really have been atrocious throughout all this.

99561 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Aremen, 1, #1123 of 1168 🔗

Sadly the WHO are now pushing masks for children 6+.

99567 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #1124 of 1168 🔗

From the Guardian “Its guidance says ages six to 11 should wear masks on a risk-based approach. Factors such as transmission rates, the child’s ability to use the mask and adequate adult supervision should all be taken into account.” I think this will be sufficient grist to the mill for an outbreak of masks in primary schools across the land.

99580 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #1125 of 1168 🔗

The Scottish Government have not honoured their stated date for making public the risk assessment they carried out before mandating face coverings across the nation. They were chased for the risk assessment by a contributor to UK Column, David Scott. The Scot Gov gave a date of first week in August iirc. Now silence from the government.

99583 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to Basics, 1, #1126 of 1168 🔗

Quelle surprise

99648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nicky, #1127 of 1168 🔗

Yes. Worth remembering the things they need us to forget. Toilet rolls for example.

99590 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Charlie Blue, #1128 of 1168 🔗

Until the first child is seriously taken ill (or worse God forbid!). Then what will the reaction be ? Especially the MSM…

99626 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Alan P, 1, #1129 of 1168 🔗

Oh, you are right, Alan. I hadn’t even thought that far. And it won’t matter if the first child is only mildly unwell, actually has tonsillitis or falls off their bike at the weekend. The hysteria will rocket and we’ll be back to square one. There seems to be no way out.

99551 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1130 of 1168 🔗

In 2018, there was a total of 160,597 casualties of all severities in road traffic crashes; I guess when they get bored of Covid, this could be offered up as the next new Cult

99557 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Dan Clarke, #1131 of 1168 🔗

It wouldn’t carry the same weight to bring down the government as Covid though!,,,,

99560 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to wendy, 2, #1132 of 1168 🔗

Only because the muzzled still want to use their cars

99975 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dan Clarke, #1133 of 1168 🔗

They’re trying. Driverless cars to be the next big thing I hear.

99563 richard riewer, #1134 of 1168 🔗

According to this website, Euroactiv, the Czech Republic has been the victim of cyber attacks on their hospital databases. Could it be going on all over the world?

Pandemic cyber attacks
The number of cyber incidents increased by one-third during the COVID-19 pandemic in the Czech Republic, said Karel Řehka, director of the Czech National Cyber and Information Security Agency (NCISA) during a Security Conference held on Thursday (25 June) in Prague.
About half of these cases involved data encryption through blackmailing programs (ransomware), the director added.
According to Řehka, the Czech Republic has so far been lucky to avoid being hit by serious global cyberattacks and other incidents but he cautioned that “it will not last forever.”
In his view, the pandemic was useful in drawing the attention of managers and politicians to the issue of cybersecurity, as hospitals in Czechia are often targeted by cyberattacks.

Another twist in the plot?

99566 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1135 of 1168 🔗

Mirror Online: At least 13 clubbers crushed to death as police raid venue breaching coronavirus rules.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-least-13-clubbers-crushed-22564740

99589 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1136 of 1168 🔗

It was in Lima Peru

99572 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1137 of 1168 🔗

This from a group in Baltimore just published

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343797723_Emerging_of_a_SARS-CoV-2_viral_strain_with_a_deletion_in_nsp1

In short, in multiple countries they have found a deletion in the genome of Sars-Cov-2 which might translate into decreased viral pathogenicity

“We identified SARS-CoV-2 genome sequences, from several Countries, carrying a previously unknown deletion of 9 nucleotides in position 686-694, corresponding to the AA position 241-243 (KSF). This deletion was found in different geographical areas. Structural prediction modelling suggests an effect on the C-terminal tail structure. Conclusions: Modelling analysis of a newly identified deletion of 3 amino acids (KSF) of SARS-CoV-2 nsp1 suggests that this deletion could affect the structure of the C-terminal region of the protein, important for regulation of viral replication and negative effect on host’s gene expression. In addition, substitution of the two amino acids (KS) from nsp1 of SARS-CoV was previously reported to revert loss of interferon-alpha expression. The deletion that we describe indicates that SARS-CoV-2 is undergoing profound genomic changes. It is important to: i) confirm the spreading of this particular viral strain, and potentially of strains with other deletions in the nsp1 protein, both in the population of asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic subjects, and ii) correlate these changes in nsp1 with potential decreased viral pathogenicity.”

99608 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to swedenborg, #1138 of 1168 🔗

This of course could be another factor, together with population immunity, to the increased “cases” /no increase in ICU admissions or deaths that we have observed

99574 richard riewer, #1139 of 1168 🔗

https://www.euractiv.com/sections/the-capitals
News on Europe. Useful or not, that’s for you to decide.

99575 watashi, replying to watashi, 4, #1140 of 1168 🔗

My middle child is due to start back at her Saturday Japanese school the first wk of Sept. Today there was an online meeting for all parents & staff. We were taken through several pages of insanity that they are going to implement to make the school safe .

Do these guidelines that they are following have any basis in law? Will their funding/insurance be affected if they don`t implement masks (for staff, kids (as young as 6) and parents!), hand poison, excessive deep cleaning, bubbles, tests if kids are poorly etc etc?

99586 ▶▶ RickH, replying to watashi, 4, #1141 of 1168 🔗

Guidance isn’t law – although I’m not sure where the present boundary between regulation and guidance lies.

The nonsense that you are citing falls within the right of an institution to specify restrictions for those attending. You then get into a morass of legal argument about reasonableness, I think.

Insurance adds another layer of possible complication.

Obviously, masks for children amounts to child abuse – but that is an issue of publicity and pressure on the institution – rather than law.

It’s difficult dealing with this sort of insanity when the basis is officially sanctioned in general terms and people have been frightened out of their senses.

99588 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to RickH, #1142 of 1168 🔗

thank you for your responses

99587 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to watashi, 3, #1143 of 1168 🔗

Seems to me that some schools make it up on the hoof. They are not aware of exemptions and other details that are important. In some schools parents might want to offer their assistance in devising a mask policy for the school

99595 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to watashi, 7, #1144 of 1168 🔗

basically and simply:

  • anything listed as guidance or guidelines in England has NO force of law and is not enforceable
  • Councils can impose measures under Public Health legislation but there is a legal process to go through and they become liable for paying compensation so they are not using that route
  • businesses must run their operations under a risk assessment they have done themselves and measures and mitigations must be documented with evidence to show the mitigations are valid and will work – problem here is that neither government nor councils can supply this evidence especially for social distancing (conjured up out of nowhere is the quote from Prof Dingwall) and make wearing (quote from DELVE recently “There are no human controlled trials on the efficacy of universal mask use in stemming SARS-CoV2 transmission.”
  • if you do not have evidence something will work it should not be used in a risk assessment
  • riska assessments are to bring the risk down to As Low As Reasonably practicable – ALARP – this does not mean bankrupt the company to achieve zero risk
  • until you get to court and a judge rules on your measures and mitigations it is just a matter of your opinion against the HS+E inspector’s opinion. Judges ruling is only opinion that is important hence all the documentation and record keeping by you
  • don’t forget COSHH as well as HSE legislation s masks and used PPE come under this as they are to be classed as contaminated waste as per guidance given to the NHS from Government and must be disposed of as per COSHH

Ask to see the school’s risk assessments etc then ask to see the science behind the risk assessment – I have written many over the years and I could not write one that justifies social distancing and mask wearing as mitigations based on the evidence currently available publicly. Council told me in writing a while ago they have no evidence and have received none for central Government either.

Problem is some insurance companies insist as part of them giving public liability cover for pandemics that the business follows “guidance”.

You can challenge them on this and ask to see their evidence and so on to justify this stance, get another insurance provider or just operate knowing that you will not have any pandemic insurance (which they are not paying out anyway).

2000 years of medical evidence and the WHO says what slows down transmission is:

  • hand hygiene, soap and hot water
  • cough and sneeze etiquette – into elbow or handkerchief
  • go to bed for a few days until you feel better if you feel ill

That’s it really. Nothing else really works.

99578 AN other lockdown sceptic, 6, #1145 of 1168 🔗

Education minister posted snaps of holiday in French Alps as exam fiasco unfolded

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/education-minister-posted-snaps-holiday-22564674

This makes my blood boil. As per animal farm, some pigs are obviously more equal than others. This government are utter bastards.

As my wife and I are mere serfs in this modern feudal system, we had to cancel our holiday in France due to the 14 day quarantine. My wife works at the head office of a high street brand who are fighting for survival. Everyone there is expected to be in the office if at all possible, aka all hands to the pump. As my own business is customer facing, I couldn’t afford to close it for 14 days as I was only able to reopen late July.

99581 Dan Clarke, 6, #1146 of 1168 🔗

It appears to be who Boris & Co are listening to= Blair in the Shadows= Ferguson, Imperial College and F&M debacle,= The Blair Foundation=The Gates Foundation.

99585 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1147 of 1168 🔗

Swedish Disease Expert Calls WHO’s COVID-19 Warning ‘A … https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.npr.org.ico https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/26/883931594/swedish-disease-expert-says-who-covid-19-warning-is-a-total-mistake
Jun 26, 2020 Sweden’s top disease expert says a surge in new coronavirus cases is a result of more testing . Here, people enjoy the sun and water at a bathing jetty in Malmo, Sweden , on Thursday alongside a …

Simple, isn’t it? Not for some people.

99592 ▶▶ RickH, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1148 of 1168 🔗

I think that we are seeing more and more evidence of the political capture of the WHO.

Sad.

99647 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to richard riewer, #1149 of 1168 🔗

This was back end of June and the WHO did a U-turn within days. Unsurprisingly this wasn’t widely reported despite the hullaballoo the media made about Sweden being on the list in the first place.

99593 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1150 of 1168 🔗

Not good news, David Icke will be speaking at the protest on Saturday. MSM will have a field day.

99596 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1151 of 1168 🔗

No disrespect to David at all but they will pull out all the stops to discredit the whole thing

99598 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1152 of 1168 🔗

Very bad strategy.

99604 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to RickH, 4, #1153 of 1168 🔗

Whose numbskull idea was that? We need to keep Icke, Piers Corbyn and any of the wild conspiracy theorists as far away as possible. Can’t we have sane people like Sumption, Toby, Fox, Hitchens, O’Neill and Hannan fronting it up?

99632 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chris Hume, #1154 of 1168 🔗

Fuck off with the ‘wild’, Chris.

I’ve read David’s books for nearly 30 years, agree with most of what he says, and even I don’t think he should be speaking on Saturday.

You maybe don’t want to assist the msm on here ?

99665 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to JohnB, #1155 of 1168 🔗

Likewise, I have read his books and he is spot on with many things but should not be speaking due to his reputation in the MSM and public.

99630 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, #1156 of 1168 🔗

Got to agree, not good news. Stick to core subject, do not give MSN any rope.

99637 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, #1157 of 1168 🔗

Agree, but they are quite capable of creating rope out of thin air. As are the Met Plod regarding trouble/violence.

99601 RickH, 1, #1158 of 1168 🔗

Although The Groan is a compliant rumour mill, it is sometimes still useful, particularly when it contradicts its main editorial line.

One of the dire effects of social destruction emerge in this article :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/23/calls-to-mental-health-helplines-double-in-manchester-under-covid-restrictions

99603 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #1159 of 1168 🔗

I’m way past the stage of biting my tongue. We need an uprising, violent if necessary to remove these monsters. Just how much crap are we expected to swallow?

We need to up our game. Writing to these cockroach MPs has zero effect!

99606 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1160 of 1168 🔗

Your problem with this is the fearful compliance of the larger part of the population.

That needs turning around before the government will feel the political wind – particularly in the situation where there is no political opposition worth the name.

99605 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 8, #1161 of 1168 🔗

Just had a courtesy call from the hotel at which we are staying next week. OH asked about the Dine Out to Help Out which is advertised on their web-site. Was told that this didn’t apply to hotel guests but to walk-ins only and that it also only applied to lunches. No, it says “dinner” on their face-book page. OK, said OH, we will cancel the reservations we have made for the four of us for dinner each night of our stay (16 meals in total) and eat somewhere else instead.

They soon did a U turn.

99633 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, 1, #1162 of 1168 🔗

Well done Margaret’s OH. Public refusal to accept nonsense is a huge part of reversing this.

99634 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 1, #1163 of 1168 🔗

Abso-pigging-lutely!

99642 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Margaret, 1, #1164 of 1168 🔗

I wonder if it’s possible for unscrupulous businesses to charge full price and somehow claim half of it anyway from the government.

99612 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1165 of 1168 🔗

https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1297313593340440576

“Median time to reinfection likely >1-2 years; reinfection -> milder symptoms. Sequelae bad, but similar other pathogens. Vaccines likely imperfect but could help. Pain ahead until
SARS Cov2 goes endemic (as the other >200 respiratory bugs).”

Quite a good summary.And why not look for our known coronaviruses? Why not something similar for C-19?

https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiaa392/5868459

Direct Observation of Repeated Infections With Endemic Coronaviruses
“Here we used data from proactive sampling carried out in New York City from fall 2016 to spring 2018.
This study provides evidence that reinfections with the same endemic coronavirus are not atypical in a time window shorter than 1 year and that the genetic basis of innate immune response may be a greater determinant of infection severity than immune memory acquired after a previous infection.”

99620 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1166 of 1168 🔗

All of which amounts to :

“Get over it!”

… as with any other pathogen.

99638 Cheezilla, #1167 of 1168 🔗

New Update available ——–>>>>>

100026 Sasnasteve, #1168 of 1168 🔗

Regarding Any Questions, you’re up against skilled and experienced orators, well practiced in debating. With many questioning the impartiality of the BBC, could it be you were invited on to be publicly shot down?

Winning a debate is not at all the same as being right but the impression the panellists are right is what casual listeners will remember.

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