Last updated2020-08-28T11:05:20



106018 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 18, #1 of 1278 🔗

Well it’s about ten minutes now, and nobody’s made a comment. So I guess it’s me!

106027 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 22, #2 of 1278 🔗

Nicely played Barney…suggesting a certain gentlemanly insouciance while keeping your eyes on the prize.

106169 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to OKUK, 3, #3 of 1278 🔗

Beautifully put 👍

106430 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Fiat, #4 of 1278 🔗

Yes, I thought so, too.

106328 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #5 of 1278 🔗

I’ve played the Trumpton roll call a few times because of you.

106021 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 62, #6 of 1278 🔗


Would someone, somewhere, in Westminster and Holyrood Please Read This?

Dr John Lee presents a display of rationality and common sense ; qualities which seem to have bypassed our leaders.

And one Lara Prendergast, also writing in the Spectator, has recently discovered that her ditsy designer cotton mask made her feel faint, panicky and desperate.

The need to breathe without facial obstruction compelled her to snatch it off and indulge in some bare faced inhalation: well I never!!

106412 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to wendyk, 3, #7 of 1278 🔗

But then you get this sh*te Wendy (In ‘The Conversation’)

“Coronavirus case numbers have been rising throughout the summer in many European countries, while the UK has brought in targeted local lockdowns to prevent spikes in the virus from getting out of control. Though death rates have yet to catch up to positive test results, and hospitals are not overwhelmed as they were in the dark days of April and May, this new spate of infections is still cause for concern, epidemiologists and pandemic modellers say.

106424 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, 16, #8 of 1278 🔗

Have you seen this scaremongering context-free nonsense from today’s Grad?

Daily case numbers and seven-day rolling average now higher than on 23 March when national lockdowns announced.

Not a mention of increased testing.

106556 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #9 of 1278 🔗


106501 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to T. Prince, 2, #10 of 1278 🔗

Will it never end?

106554 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to wendyk, 8, #11 of 1278 🔗

Hard to see when or how it will end. No political opposition to this crap, MSM just turning the dial (or is it screw?) higher everyday despite the evidence we see here. NOTHING about this charade makes any sense.

106560 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to T. Prince, 1, #12 of 1278 🔗

Agreed. Sanity Island here.

106846 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to T. Prince, 2, #13 of 1278 🔗

Grad heavily funded by Bill Gates. There’s your motive.

107053 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Gracie Knoll, #14 of 1278 🔗

That is exactly so.

107094 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to T. Prince, 1, #15 of 1278 🔗

Of course it makes sense, it’s about control. And it’ll end when enough people rise up

107051 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to wendyk, #16 of 1278 🔗

Only when we all get the Gates vaccine.

106026 OKUK, 6, #17 of 1278 🔗

Shit and turd, I’m third.

106029 OKUK, replying to OKUK, #18 of 1278 🔗

To recap on a post of mine that drifted off on the last thread…I was suggesting that we need an emergency tax on home working and home deliveries as a way of avoiding what will otherwise be a devastating economic meltdown in our city centres – not just cafes, sandwich bars, taxi services and so on will be affected but also theatres, music venues, art galleries and other enterprises if the home working trend gets a hold. The home delivery trend is also further aggravating the economic crisis. I am not against technological change but we need first to recover from an act huge self harm that has set us on a wayward course.

106043 ▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 42, #19 of 1278 🔗

So you want me to give up my click and collect, and go into the superstore hell with the zombies?

106053 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 16, #20 of 1278 🔗

Annie get your gun.

106089 ▶▶▶ RationalMissMuffet, replying to annie, 6, #21 of 1278 🔗

It’s not that bad, Annie.
You just have to smile a lot. And remember that part of the plan is to kill off cash, which will mean you have no control over where you spend your money, and they’ll be able to track your activity – and no doubt tax you on your birthday money. Go to Better Than Cash Alliance.

106768 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RationalMissMuffet, #22 of 1278 🔗

Not just that they can track your activity – they’ve been doing that for decades. More that they can cut you off completely from your money by the push of a button.

Check out the German tv series “You are wanted.”
I recommend the subtitled version rather than the dubbed one, especially if you speak any German.

107150 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to annie, 1, #23 of 1278 🔗

Clearly my proposal goes along with withdrawal of mandatory mask laws – in fact you would need to make it illegal to demand mask wearing in ordinary shops.

107211 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, #24 of 1278 🔗

Fair enough. But even in mask-free Wales, town centres are a ghastly experience with nag, nag, nag Covinotices everywhere, and shops proclaiming that you’re welcome back, but with a list of fifty million rules that you have to comply with before they’ll deign to let you in.
Village shop ok. Indoor market ok, if I storm past the fat little one-way-only gauleiter on the doors. Farm shop ok. Wayside veggie and egg stalls fine. Zombie shops – no.
I’ve survived twenty years of online shopping and I shall carry on.

106048 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to OKUK, 34, #25 of 1278 🔗

I hated shopping even before all this: I’ve been having the bulk of my groceries delivered since it became possible about twenty years ago and I was using Amazon before most people knew what the internet was. Why should I be penalized because I don’t want to live like it’s the nineteenth century? I also take a packed lunch to work – are you suggesting these should be penalised too to force me to eat from unhealthy and expensive fast food outlets whilst working in the office?

Your comment also has a logical inconsistency. You mention theatres and arts venues being threatened by home working. How? Do you go to plays in your lunch hour? Personally, I find not spending my Saturdays miserably trudging around shopping centres gives me the time to go to about fifty plays a year. If you taxed online shopping enough to actually force me into the shops you’d therefore do more damage to the theatres than if you just left me alone.

106261 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andrew Fish, 5, #26 of 1278 🔗

Same here, shopping is something I would rather stay as far away from as possible.

106648 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Andrew Fish, 9, #27 of 1278 🔗

I too hated the weekly shop. But now it is a fun game of scare the shopper. Wait patiently at the end if an aisle, then spring forth chest out and watch them scatter. You can play a points game like snooker – pick a red top to start, if they leap out the way you are on a break next pick a colour – black top scores 7. So far my highest break was 54! Would need a few hours for the ton.

107153 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Andrew Fish, #28 of 1278 🔗

A lot of young and youngish people go the theatre and other arts venues after work. If they’re not already in the city centre there will be little incentive for them to travel in.

106049 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to OKUK, 48, #29 of 1278 🔗

I don’t know about countering increased government interference in the marketplace from the lockdown with increased government interference in the marketplace with a tax.

How about we just end all restrictions and let things sort themselves out?

106103 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to ConstantBees, 9, #30 of 1278 🔗

Second. And privatize health care while you’re at it.

106188 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to RyanM, 1, #31 of 1278 🔗

Because the US model works so well for everyone. Obviously.

106532 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bruno, 6, #32 of 1278 🔗

The German, Scandinavian, french, swiss, Austrian, dutch, australian, N Z all work better than the 2nd world british system.
Wonder what they’ve all got in common?

106640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nessimmersion, 6, #33 of 1278 🔗

Well I know, from speaking with a Norwegian about it whilst there last month, that the Norway model is one where you pay a small amount per use, up to a maximum (if I recall correctly) of e1,800 per year, after that your healthcare is free. So it’s certainly not private healthcare, given a pack of drugs can cost you 1800 in the US.

Other differences in Norway were:

  • Higher wages
  • Higher cost of living
  • Higher taxes (close to 50% tax for everyone except the absolute poorest, as I understood it)
  • Much smaller gap between rich/poor, very little homelessness – strong safety net

When I lived in France the system was such that in certain medical environments you paid 20% (or something like that) of the cost of treatment, the rest was covered by government. I know when I had to get an MRI on my back it only cost me e120 and no one tried to deny me getting it, I didnt have to beg – it was just the quickest and best way to find out what was wrong with me. Again though, in France, my taxes were over 40% (including social security charges) despite earning less than e30k a year there. Living expenses were higher than here (food shops about double, it seemed) but other state provision was better in places (people with kids seemed to get free full time nursery).

The problem with our system in the UK is that we are no longer either here nor there. We have ridiculous scenarios like right now, where the government is funnelling £10bn into private health providers (and no doubt their chums at the top of said providers) to process the backlog the government created itself (handy), when they could have simply invested less than that over the last 10 years to increase NHS capacity. We now, after many years (of both Labour and Tories it _must_ be noted) of throwing money at private providers, have a situation where there are a load of players within the NHS trying to turn a profit at the expense of patient care, and an NHS that is underfunded partly due to the huge debt to private funds it finds itself in (with many thanks to horrendous PFI deals of Blair, Brown and tories since) and partly due to endless chopping and changing of how the bloody thing is managed. We dont pay high enough taxes to fund a completely free NHS without constant chopping away of various state services elsewhere, and so each successive gov gets in an endless pit of lies about adding funding when in reality they don’t.

If you compare our taxes vs most other European neighbours we pay comparatively little, I believe. The problem is that, no matter what you pay, and whether the government is left, centre or right, they will find increasingly clever ways to make our tax money disappear and reappear in their and their mates bank accounts without ever sorting out services or problems in society. As far as I can tell, politicians are almost universally corrupt, or corruptible, some are just better at hiding it than others.

106773 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, #34 of 1278 🔗

Much smaller gap between rich/poor
There’s the key.

107070 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Cheezilla, #35 of 1278 🔗

As long as you remember that a smaller gap between rich and poor is an indicator that your economy is getting smaller.

106776 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mark II, 1, #36 of 1278 🔗

Taxes in UK are high, we pay about OECD average for healthcare.
Bismarkian social insurance model is a proven method of providing healthcare that is manifestly superior to the NHS.
It depends how many decades we wish to retain a 2nd world healthcare system for.
Change to the German model allows people to choose to spend more on health of they wish – it’s their choice at that point.

One advantage of the social insurance model is it removes politicians from the decision tree.
I don’t understand why so many people here want politicians involved in health decisions.

106893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nessimmersion, #37 of 1278 🔗

I think you’ve missed my point. I’m certainly not advocating politicians having a say on health decisions (unless they are trained medical professionals… and even then they’ve not exactly covered themselves in glory the last few months have they).

My point is UK taxes are relatively low and we still get completely free healthcare (our taxes are most definitely _not_ high, we have fairly low rates of tax, but we also have a piece of shit state pension etc as a result). I imagine even if we moved to a part-paid at point of service healthcare system, our taxes would remain the same as governments just find other ways of gobbling up our money. Personally, I’d be up for a system similar in operation to european counterparts even if it meant some further contributions (ideally capped like the Norway model) as long as the level of healthcare improved;

  • shorter waiting times,
  • when you want to see specialist in X you actually can, without having to go through a 6 month process of arguing with low level Drs first)
  • sufficient a & e departments across the entire country

The worst thing would be for everyone to agitate for change (which the Tories clearly would like) to a private systems that costs us all a fucking fortune but that is still not good enough when needed. Unfortunately, I think this is the most likely outcome, given those in charge (and given the alternatives for power) so I’d rather stick with what we’ve got than end up in a far worse position.

107010 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mark II, #38 of 1278 🔗

Eh, I think you’ve missed my point.
Taxation as a % of GDP is at historic highs just now, some stats are indicating we haven’t had a higher % for 50 years.
Our tax as a % of GDP is higher than Finland for example
As long as you have a nationalised stalinist monoculture like the NHS politicians will inevitably be intimately involved in screwing it up.

Its the cognitive dissonance that gets me.
UK has a really shit system compared to other countries, lets have more of what makes it a shit system instead of changing to the system that every other advanced country uses a variation of.
I hope and pray the NHS is strangled in a ditch so we can move to a 1st world healthcare system that doesn’t delight in neglecting people and allows people to choose to spend their own money on health as they wish.

107201 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nessimmersion, #39 of 1278 🔗

Well obviously if you have a personal insurance element you will have lower taxes.

Insurance administration adds hugely to costs. Tables on Wikipedia show UK per capita health costs are lower than comparable countries eg France, Germany, Canada,, USA by between about 10% and 50%. Whether we get as good a health system as other countries is up for debate. But the NHS is cheap.

107212 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to OKUK, #40 of 1278 🔗

No its not for what we get.
Its nasty but its not particularly cheap, we spend more per cap than Belgium & Lux for example.
Insurance admin can be cheaper than running it through national taxation, if you choose Bismarkian Social Insurance as done in most countries from Norway to Australia.
US style govt controlled medical insurance is a very expensive non free market way to do it. Lot of campaigners in US want to remove govt mandates from insurance market to allow free market to operate.
Basically there are 2 outliers, US & UK, rest of the world treats both as object lessons in what to avoid.
Please give links for UK per capita health cost.

( I hope you realise that many US healthcare commentators are convinced the rest of the world freeloads on US expenditure on drug research, with UK for example not spending enough on drugs to fund medical research)

107291 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nessimmersion, #41 of 1278 🔗

You can play this game ad infinitum – Brazilians think the US drug companies steal the DNA from their tropical forests. That’s a perfectly reasonable position.

Don’t know why you’re trying to deny the NHS is cheap in relation to other comparable countries.

Another factor is that in the UK the private sector effectively subsidises the public health provision. That doesn’t happen in countries with Bismarckian systems.

107304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to OKUK, #42 of 1278 🔗

Don’t know why you think the NHS is acceptable or cheap & don’t know why you say I’m denying it, these are the ONS figures.
We spend about average for OECD countries, not the top, not the bottom, roundabout average, we are 6th of 7 for G7 spend, again not the cheapest.
I would prefer a 1st world system that doesn’t come up with systems to kill off the elderly through neglect, others are quite happy with that system.

A system that scores better on mortality outcomes would be good, instead of one that scores really well on how the workforce perceive it but poorly on health outcomes or your chances of leaving your hospital visit still breathing.

I would also prefer a system that allowed personal choice to spend more on health for normal working people like they have in Germany, not just the rich like here.
Stalinist management systems don’t work elsewhere, so don’t know why you think they are appropriate for healthcare.
More govt spending is a non starter, so one that is proven to give more personal choice on healthcare spend is an improvement.
Again, need some verification that the private sector subsidises public healthcare in UK, post links please.
There is not the strict delineation in Germany, for example the majority of hospitals are either non profit or private, best hospitals are privately run, what they don’t have is the national monolith we have with its huge waste on management and procurement.

106669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nessimmersion, #43 of 1278 🔗

They’re more expensive.

106761 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bruno, #44 of 1278 🔗

Not all, we spend about OECD average on healthcare.
Bismarkian social insurance model makes extra spending on health palatable as it is a personal choice.
Thats why all those countries operate a social insurance model with most health care provided by private or mutual hospitals, funded by social insurance co’s, but with an element of co-pay to stop people taking the piss.
It works – unlike our Stalinist model.
There is a reason only one other country in the world tried an NHS, then dropped it pronto when they worked out the implications.

106853 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #45 of 1278 🔗

Japanese healthcare system pretty good too I think.

106638 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to RyanM, 2, #46 of 1278 🔗

The Swiss model works extremely well and you get excellent healthcare and what you need. Insurance based where the government subsidises the premium for the less well-off.

107156 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RyanM, #47 of 1278 🔗

You might get two people to vote for that. You and your mum!

107218 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to OKUK, #48 of 1278 🔗
107155 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to ConstantBees, #49 of 1278 🔗

It’s not a great situation but where we are now after 6 months is not a reflection of a free market at play. What business could foresee the government going mad and deliberately wrecking the economy? I think it is best to try to restore the status quo ante: the alternative will be huge economic dislocation not unlike the consequences of a major war cutting off markets eg post WW1 Austria. That will require direct government intervention on a continuing massive scale.

106056 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to OKUK, 16, #50 of 1278 🔗

Why not just accept the high street as a concept is dead (it was dying a long time before the lockdown) and reimagine town centres as vibrant social centres bursting with culture and vitality (I’m ever the idealistic optimist).

106064 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 25, #51 of 1278 🔗

I’d reimagine them as places to live in. All the big shops are now on the outskirts anyway, so the city needs to be turned inside out. Turn the dead city-centre stores into desirable residences, like they’ve done with redundant warehouses. Construct decent housing, and the little shops would spring up of their own accord to serve the needs of the inhabitants.
This, if course, assumes that the Covid insanity has ended, which it will. Don’t know when, but it will, and pretty soon, I think. It’s wise to plan your post-war strategy while the war is still on.

106238 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 12, #52 of 1278 🔗

Unfortunately this may just be the plan, sort-of. It could be that cities will be ‘re-thought’ and ‘re-purposed’ to accommodate most of the population, probably in Soviet-style apartment blocks. Before the lockdown, Manchester was already a vast building-site with tower blocks springing up everywhere. Since it’s obvious they are not going to be used as offices (were they ever?) what are they for?

We also watch with kindly interest the progress of the Great Green Reset or whatever it’s called. The sparkler, Andy Burnham, mayor of Manchester and lockdown cheer-leader, doesn’t want people using public transport (too dangerous!) but wants you walking, cycling or in a car. This would presumably be a nice ‘green’ electric one, as-if. Since the vast number of unemployed people will not be able to afford any car, let alone an electric one, and public transport will tank, sooner rather than later, that leaves walking and cycling round your lovely New Normal city concrete desert.

Oh and, don’t expect shops. Everyone will be forced online and I notice that many people on here don’t have a problem with that. What happens when ‘no-jab, no-pay’ is imposed, may concentrate the mind when your card stops working.

Sorry, folks, but I don’t think Stockholm Syndrome stops with the Covid-hysterical. Would that it did. MW

106273 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #53 of 1278 🔗

Shopping is not a very enjoyable thing for me anyway.

The quicker the better.

Any more free time gets added to more fulfilling activities

106289 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #54 of 1278 🔗

I hate shopping too, especially in big stores. Small shops are usually more fun and friendlier. The quicker the better? What, living in a tower block with mandatory jabs so you can access your UBI and use your card to get your rationed food parcel?

You see a Utopian future in the New Normal. I hope you’re right! MW

107114 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #55 of 1278 🔗

You don’t have to be a flaky person to know that focusing on the negative, fearing the negative, is more likely to bring it about

106275 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 12, #56 of 1278 🔗

Still amuses me that just about the only place on earth where people didn’t suffer Stockholm syndrome in recent months was….. Stockholm!

106296 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #57 of 1278 🔗

Have a look into smart cities, it’s backed by the EU, WEF, Gates, etc. It’s ultimate aim is for all of us to live in smart cities, countryside will be used for offsetting carbon zero so no one allowed there, we will own nothing as everything will be subscription based which works great for the major financial institutions as we pay all our lives and never own anything.

106307 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, 3, #58 of 1278 🔗

Yes, that’s just what I meant! MW

107254 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to JohnB, #59 of 1278 🔗

And everyone in driverless cars.. which I’m sure wouldn’t take you anywhere untoward if you posted the ‘wrong’ opinions online. Nope.
The other potential timebomb with a city full of electric & driverless cars – there are still folks online adamant that Putin paid for a US presidential election with about $25k of facebook ads (a chunk of which were not seen til after election day). Presumably he would have no problem hacking an entire grid and just bricking every car, thereby shutting a city totally down in the process..

106431 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #60 of 1278 🔗

You echo my thoughts very clearly.

106070 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #61 of 1278 🔗

The traffic going into my small city is busier than this time last year, regardless 50% cheap grub days, don’t know what they are doing if not shopping, most cultural venues are still closed.

106270 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mr Dee, 8, #62 of 1278 🔗

High Street companies like John Lewis lost all sympathy from me a few years ago when they ended the with a losses and blamed it all on Brexit. John Lewis ends with a £4 million loss, it was all Brexit’s fault though, nothing to do with the stupid £5 million they’d payed to Elton John for their annual Xmas vanity project!

106642 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to JohnB, 1, #63 of 1278 🔗

John lewis came off my list when you had to pay a fee to collect your online shopping package from Waitrose. Yes I know it was not a lot of money but is is the principle.

106819 ▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Victoria, #64 of 1278 🔗

And how much hidden subsidy did they get to open that fancy Birmingham store. Which has now closed down only a few years later.

106784 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #65 of 1278 🔗

I’m with you on that. There are too many shops. Shit ones at that. I don’t care if they dissapear. Sadly people’s jobs go as well, so then what? Unfortunately there isn’t much industry left here to employ the unskilled. A change is afoot.

106812 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #66 of 1278 🔗

It’s already in motion. Some of the plans were put in place last year.

There was a recent article about demolishing “covid contaminated buldings” :

Kirklees was publicising its planned green space for Huddersfield town centre several months ago.

Here’s something similar:

and https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/press-release/uk-first-as-towns-and-cities-are-chosen-for-11m-initiative-to-save-green-spaces

Hilary McGrady, the National Trust’s Director General, said: “. This is not just about new ways to fund and support these much-loved community spaces, but completely re-thinking the role green spaces play in our lives …..We need to give parks a reboot and start thinking about them as essential elements of our communities”

Ironic when you think that the National Trust is now severely rationing access to its country parks. Parks are much more tempting when toilets are available too!
Minister for Parks and Green Spaces, Rishi Sunak said :
Well there’s a coincidence!

More evidence of endgame pre-planning? Town centres are going to be embarrassingly derelict soon. Certainly there seems to be mind-boggling amounts of money available to manage the effects of the plandemic.

Bradford demolished a huge chunk of it’s town centre many years ago and replaced it with a lake.
The report said: “Any place that wants a thriving economy can only do so by appealing to middle-class taste. Upping the quality of the visitor-offer in the city centre to make it a primary leisure resource for the metropolitan area and its surrounds should be top priority.”

107216 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #67 of 1278 🔗

Because you and I will have to pay for the resultant massive economic and social dislocation.

How would you handle a situation where the London tube network usage falls by 40% permanently? You still have to maintain the network so it can operate efficiently and safely.

Workers in the inner cities can’t easily relocate to the far suburbs – there is no cheap housing for them there even uf there are jobs.

The dislocation has all taken place within the space of six months – outside war this is unprecedented.

107251 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to OKUK, #68 of 1278 🔗

It’s possible there could be massive population influx too. Activist groups are actively campaigning to mobilize tens of thousands of migrants into the country, on the grounds that a) everybody who died here needs to be replaced, & b) every individual migrant will immediately contribute thousands & thousands to the economy….I’m sure nothing could go wrong with this plan….!

106095 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, 28, #69 of 1278 🔗


Not in favour of this – it should be choice not compulsion. The high street have done themselves no favours by cravenly kowtowing to the government’s “Covid safety guidelines” and given carte blanche to their management and staff with Hitler and Stalin tendencies to treat their customers like Typhoid Mary. Why should we reward their abysmal behaviour and lack of good customer service not to mention their outmoded practices and stupid opening hours? I for one will not shed tears when they go bust as they only have themselves to blame.

106311 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #70 of 1278 🔗

Yes, they have never spoken out against this madness even though these companies hold the power to do so.

Then there is their support for BLM, it’s lies, the erasing of British history, and the defunding of the police.

Plus anything the woke minority says they back.

106391 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 4, #71 of 1278 🔗

Exactly. This is what I’ve been banging on – they could have cushioned their losses by speaking out but they didn’t. Instead they jumped on bandwagons like BLM.

They are now reaping what they sow and we should keep pushing back. Once they’ve gone bust it will be too late for them.

106644 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #72 of 1278 🔗

Agree, most of the supermarkets have removed door guards and rails but many other shops still thinks they can treat you like dirt.

Big yellow sign in Adnams shop window (3/4 window size):


Please wait to be asked in

No thank you

107087 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 4, #73 of 1278 🔗

Any shop that has the following signs:

  • Please wait to be asked in
  • No mask, no sale
  • Only 1 person allowed

Will not get my custom and will be boycotted forevermore.

107658 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Bart Simpson, #74 of 1278 🔗

We’ve got a couple like that & I agree with you. The only thing I’ve wondered though, us if the shop thinks they are going to get into trouble for not enforcing mask wearing.

Because of the trip to the hairdressers in the week, when I said she really didn’t have to wear a mask for me, she said I must, in case we get inspected. Who has told them or implied to them that they would be inspected?

106123 ▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 14, #75 of 1278 🔗

Seems likely. As Peter Hitchens pointed out way back, since the magic money tree is unlikely to exist we are going to have to pay for what we have spent and will spend, out of a reduced economic activity, so there will likely be taxes and confiscations galore, stealthy or otherwise, in our near futures.

In an ideal world, we would apportion the costs according to the contributions made to the fear that caused them to be incurred. So confiscatory taxes on media organisations that fearmongered, pretty much all politicians, “experts” who failed to maintain proportion, and significant taxes on “influencers” and people who used their social media accounts to spread fear and to abuse and threaten those who weren’t fooled, and on organisations who pushed for stupid over-fearful precautions that deepened and prolonged the crisis (trade unions etc). .

106202 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, 3, #76 of 1278 🔗

Was it Toby who sat down with his children one wet afternoon to list those who’d profited the most from the lockdown, starting with Amazon, Zoom, et al? Prime targets, a few large concerns, not too hard to administer if OECD can get its act together? Most people would regard it like insurance fraud, a victimless crime.

106440 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 1, #77 of 1278 🔗

ideal indeed!

106546 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Mark, 1, #78 of 1278 🔗

Their bug problen is taxes are already at their highest in 50 years.
The more they tax, the less the economy will grow.
See Singapore or Hong Kong for further details.

106603 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nessimmersion, #79 of 1278 🔗

Stagflation, here we come.

107308 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mark, #80 of 1278 🔗

Here is a webpage with many links to Stagflation in the 1970s.

106177 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to OKUK, 14, #81 of 1278 🔗

Luddite ideas I’m afraid. No way will people currently saving between £3-6000 a year on an annual season ticket to work, i.e. all of the South East, consent to returning to that, and their employers won’t try to make them. They know they’ll just defect. And firms themselves can see massive rental savings. The City, and other such centres, will morph into something else, no point in trying to stem the tide.

106367 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bruno, 9, #82 of 1278 🔗

Family members who work in The City are already adjusting to wfh and enjoying it. They get as much work done, with far less stress and, as you say, without the awful and costly daily commute.

One is now working permanently from home, while the other two envisage a significantly reduced office presence; the remainder being done from home.

The downside of course, is that the many workers-mainly in minimum wage jobs-who’ve kept us all going during the house arrests will not have this option, nor will they benefit from the reduction in stress which the highly paid professionals are enjoying.

Income disparities and differentials in general well being are bound to increase, especially as others have said, when automation starts to make serious inroads into the labour market.

106480 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to wendyk, 4, #83 of 1278 🔗

The 4th industrial revolution is going to cause massive white collar job losses as well;as the power of computing takes over many functions including many managerial positions and the professions

106594 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #84 of 1278 🔗

Whatever happened to the typing pool ?

106677 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 2, #85 of 1278 🔗

When laptops were invented the typing pool became surplus to requirements.

106714 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #86 of 1278 🔗

Exactly, the company I worked for ceased to have a typing pool around 1990 (pre-laptop but when PCs became common).

106494 ▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to wendyk, 1, #87 of 1278 🔗

Wait till their jobs go to India!!

106503 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nic, #88 of 1278 🔗

This has already started I think

107179 ▶▶▶▶ rational actor, replying to wendyk, 1, #89 of 1278 🔗

One of the more intriguing elements here is that many well-paid middle class people may well become superfluous. If they can do their jobs working from home presumably someone in India or Malaysia can do them just as well. At the very least such people might end up with a pay reduction, given that there are so many things they no longer need to spend money on, like travel.

This parallels my experience of Millennial Whining: they can’t afford the properties they think they should have and can’t get paid as much as they think they deserve for the job they think should be theirs, so we should all do something about it. Why? Where I live many millennials are homeowners and have a fair amount of disposable income, but they are doing uncool jobs like fixing air conditioners and selling agricultural equipment. It’s much harder to live without these people than it is to do without your local paperpusher. But this is also why there will no doubt be an attempt to attack and dispossess such people for being too independent. We have to start thinking about how to stand together.

107309 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to wendyk, 1, #90 of 1278 🔗

The advance of automation was the subject of many books and studies as far back as the 1950s. Read Jacques Ellul’s ‘Technological Society’.

106179 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 8, #91 of 1278 🔗

This is deluded thinking.

The high street has been dying for years, why should I bail it out with an emergency tax?

Why should I also be taxed for home deliveries, once again to bail out the already failing high street. Also, I am not driving to the city or town this is reducing pollution which local Gov has been requesting for years.

Also, working from home is a good thing and if it can be done should be encouraged rather than discouraged. It makes workers happier, they get more done as they aren’t constantly distracted as in the office, aren’t as tired due to the commuting, see their families more, and have more time for themselves. One of the things I do is implement remote working solutions and I’ve yet to find anyone yet who is yet to say “I’m really missing going in to the office every day”, everyone I’ve worked with have embraced it and it has been a real positive for them.

106206 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, 7, #92 of 1278 🔗

This is the future the tech barons have in store for us.Atomised individuals in our little pods.Easier to control and manipulate.I glad all the home workers are enjoying themselves but if things do not get back to normal soon then get ready to pay a lot more tax to support all those jobs which will disappear.Hopefully your pension fund has not invested in city centre land and that job which you can do from home can be done doesn’t get off shored.
You are right that this crisis has sped up things that were happening anyway but we are not ready for this change.

106235 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #93 of 1278 🔗

Just to clarify that should have read pay more tax to support all those people who’s jobs have disappeared.The high street was dying because of local council policies and unfair advantages given to online businesses.Hunan beings are social animals and I’m sure a lot of people will tire of working from home after the novelty wears off

106258 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #94 of 1278 🔗

We’re gonna be paying more tax anyway, or have you missed all the spending over the last 6 months?

The high street has been in trouble from the before internet shopping, it’s just a continuation, and why when you can order in one click and get something delivered to your door next day would you waste hours of your precious time driving into a city and then shopping around, wasting half a day? I could spend that time instead going cycling with the kids, or walking in the Peak District, rather than boring myself stupid in shops.

106338 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, 7, #95 of 1278 🔗

I’m glad you have a wonderful work life balance now but millions will be made unemployed in this new normal.300 billion will be a drop the ocean if this continues.I sometimes wonder if this is all just an experiment for agenda 2030.See what sectors are needed,what is not essential,how pliant the population are.
I agree that it seems insane for everyone to travel in and out of work everyday when it can be accomplished just as well from home,but a massive part of the economy exists just to serve that function.
Also you say it’s a relief to be free from micro mangers wait until you have a algorithm monitoring you all the time.
As the future of our cities it would be wonderful if all those redundant offices were turned into large houses with gardens but it will just be more barrack like housing for the poor.

106283 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #96 of 1278 🔗

I agree that this change has been forced onto people without preparation and it has been brutal. City centre businesses who have been put out of business are among the many paying the price and I don’t think we should be callous about what has happened to them. After all, many of us were going along blithely without expecting things to change.

Our way of living, pre Scamdemic was undoubtedly unsustainable. A change to more home-working and a move out of city centres was probably inevitable and maybe even desirable. Anecdotally, small towns are surviving, after a fashion, although the draconian ‘measures’ they have imposed, sometimes unnecessarily, must be affecting their profits.

I have read bits and pieces about people being unhappy with home-working. It does not suit everyone and I know personally some people who hate it. We are not all sociopaths and the lack of community and social living is driving the rise in mental illness and other problems. I can’t provide much in the way of links but I found this:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/mind/risk-working-home-burnout/ MW

106753 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #97 of 1278 🔗

If more people move to home working it could have a major economic impact :-

If large numbers of workers travel by public transport, this provides bus and train operators with a regular source of income. More home workers could result in public transport providers loosing a lot of income.

In city centres I assume commuters are important economically because workers spend money in businesses to and from work and during lunch breaks. How much of a hit will city centres take without commuters. I recall one comment from someone who said Belfast city centre was dead due the lack of trade from office workers who were working from home.

A factor which creates the demand for residential property and affects property prices is people needing somewhere to live close to where they work which is no longer important if people can work from anywhere.

If organizations no longer use offices and all staff work from home, this a knock on effect on companies who rent commercial property, suppliers of office furniture, stationery etc.

107228 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #98 of 1278 🔗

I have friends and relatives in Russia.
The technology in Russia is very good, internet is better and cheaper. But remote working didn’t prove to be popular in Russia. Many people are now back in offices and they don’t have a problem of empty city centres. Companies are worried about internet security at people homes, the productivity, social interaction.
I am sure there will be hackers attacks in home computers of some important people.

106445 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #99 of 1278 🔗

But wfh should leave them more time to pursue leisure and group activities. Weird that this is the other sector that has been systematically undermined by the lockdown.

106551 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #100 of 1278 🔗

What unfair advantages?

106573 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nessimmersion, #101 of 1278 🔗

Tax.globalist internet businesses can domicile anywhere.I don’t know the exact figures but Amazon Google Uber etc pay minuscule amounts of tax related to turnover

106756 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #102 of 1278 🔗

Shops have an unfair advantage over online business in that they don’t have to pay the transportation cost of getting the item to the
customers address.

Why on earth would you pay tax on turnover.
1) Tax is paid on profit not turnover.
2) Online business is not exempt from VAT, so a sales tax is paid, with no differential between thebtypes of business.

107221 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ rational actor, replying to Nessimmersion, #103 of 1278 🔗

Online retailers either charge for postage or work it into the price if you are spending enough money. Shops have an advantage in that you can see what you are buying, and judging by some of the things I’ve recently ordered online that is a major benefit.

107258 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to rational actor, #104 of 1278 🔗

Yes. Don’t know about everyone else, but I have coats in my wardrobe 3 different sizes. Shoes 3 different sizes (according to the numbers on the labels, I mean). all a perfect fit for me!

106242 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #105 of 1278 🔗

Those jobs we going anyway, we’ve sped this up by 5-10 years, automation by 2030 was expected to cause exactly this same scenario.

Pensions no matter where the money is located are f*cked anyway, companies you could always bank on like Rolls Royce, Boeing, they are all on their knees.

Workers were more controllable at work. One good thing that will probably come out of this is less micro managers, this seems to me to be why more people are happier. As long as they are meeting their objectives which they are then employees are happy. The other good thing it allows you to do is see who the dead wood is in your business, whereas in the office they can always find excuses to hide behind.

106243 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 2, #106 of 1278 🔗

The apocryphal epitaph ‘I wish I’d spent more time in the office, Spike Milligan ?

106245 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to karenovirus, 5, #107 of 1278 🔗

No – his was “I told you I was ill.”

106635 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to OKUK, 4, #108 of 1278 🔗

Get Matt Hancock’s Department back to work first. They can set the example.

Then the Government to confirm in writing to businesses that they will not continue with new add-ons (i.e masks in offices) / making it up as they go along. Why would any business get their workers back to work when the Government continue implementing non-sensical measures?

106864 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 2, #109 of 1278 🔗

Exactly. If they want to get people back to work, the MPs should set the example by sitting bum-cheek to bum-cheek and maskless in the Houses of Parliament, doing what we pay them to do!

107162 ▶▶ rational actor, replying to OKUK, 3, #110 of 1278 🔗

Give OKUK a break, it’s not an entirely misguided idea. Greenies have been moaning about ‘carbon footprints’ forever, but somehow they never get around to mentioning that ordering things on a whim off the web involves a lot of packaging and transport. (I’ve also noticed that Amazon has been drastically overpackaging items since batflu began, but I can’t work out why. Nobody else is) I realize that his idea was to get people back into shops, but a digitax combined with a ban on shops being permitted to require facerags for entry might really make a difference.

And yes, venues such as shops, restaurants, and museums have a symbiotic relationship, espeically for people like me who have to travel to get to them. If I want to see an exhibition, why not do some shopping or have a meal while I’m there? I am surprised that none of TPTB seem to understand how much impulse spending people do when they’re out, and how damaging it is for shops & restaurants not to have that income.

107231 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to OKUK, #111 of 1278 🔗

Business rates are one of those stealth taxes designed to hide the real rate of taxation from the consumer. When retail businesses can’t pay, the money will have to be raised in other ways. The government will look for other stealth taxes.

It’s like electric vehicles not paying fuel duty. The money will be raised from consumers by a different tax.

107311 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to WhyNow, #112 of 1278 🔗

Subsidising electric vehicles.

107248 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to OKUK, #113 of 1278 🔗

Check out the agenda for the next Davos Summit thingy… the future is all about homeworking (where your job hasn’t been automated out of existence) & online data mining for the block chain-based digital currency systems. There won’t be an awful lot left of city centres.

106034 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 13, #114 of 1278 🔗

Are You in the 99.99% Group?YES.

106038 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, 9, #115 of 1278 🔗

Oh nooos 97.9992% does it mean I’m twice as likely to cop it from Covid?
Nope since I’m a smoker, sorted.

106686 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, 3, #116 of 1278 🔗

Me too.

106059 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to richard riewer, 4, #117 of 1278 🔗

I’m over 6 foot so I’m a dead man walking.

106065 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #118 of 1278 🔗

You’ll be fine if you keep your six feet apart.

106076 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #119 of 1278 🔗

Me too but I’ve started crawling along on my belly, looks a bit silly but not as silly as walking around wearing a mask

106081 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stefarm, 2, #120 of 1278 🔗

Perhaps we should adopt quadrupedal motion for the loftier folks.

106209 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to wendyk, 2, #121 of 1278 🔗

Like it, create a sort of bell curve of human development on that poster from chimp through Neanderthal to homo sapiens. Although it’s more the reverse of a pandemic curve, it was a long slow ascent with a precipitous descent after the peak.

106239 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bruno, 1, #122 of 1278 🔗

Spot on! A sceptics’ poster perhaps.

106451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 12, #123 of 1278 🔗
106533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #124 of 1278 🔗

Yes! Although the next to last should be bent over a smart phone.

107130 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #125 of 1278 🔗

I have this t-shirt and wore it proudly last weekend.

107312 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to wendyk, #126 of 1278 🔗

A new ministry for silly walks.

106100 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, 1, #127 of 1278 🔗

I’m in the 99.998% group. Woo hoo!!!

106174 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #128 of 1278 🔗

Thinking of getting a t-shirt with 99.9815% on it. Thinking further 99.99% would be a cool name for LSs!

106180 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Fiat, 2, #129 of 1278 🔗

I’ll add this together with my “Man to Sheep” t-shirt.

106303 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #130 of 1278 🔗


Well, I’m 98.76 (60-69 with a condition), Alan G is 95.65 (70-80 with a condition). Bothered? Ask us! MW

106454 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #131 of 1278 🔗

Do you look bothered?

106212 ▶▶ davews, replying to richard riewer, #132 of 1278 🔗

I am quite satisfied with my 99.5%.

106035 Eddie, #133 of 1278 🔗

Holy smokes I made the top ten!!

106036 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 63, #134 of 1278 🔗

Has a ‘cure’ ever been so much worse than the disease?

This is the worst horror story in the history of humankind.

106037 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to richard riewer, 34, #135 of 1278 🔗

I’m just thinking how anyone could just click on this page, have a good open minded read through today’s blog, and they’d be free of Project Fear and would have their ability to think for themselves back again. Sadly we’re not able to break the MSM’s stranglehold on the majority of folks.

106262 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Eddie, 15, #136 of 1278 🔗

It is a brilliant update. Much as I am loathe to criticise Toby, I think the strength of today’s update is it’s adherence to the folly of lockdown. Please leave the BLM, climate change, Rule Britannia stuff; even though I am in agreement with much of it, it is a distraction just as we are starting to get some traction on the lockdown issue.

106372 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Will, #137 of 1278 🔗

Curious that you were the only one promoting that litany.

106384 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Will, 14, #138 of 1278 🔗

I disagree with that. On the contrary, as the lockdown scepticism gets wider traction it makes more sense to broaden the discussion, because the lockdown stuff is less rare in other places.

This is still Toby’s blog, basically, and if he constrains himself to just lockdown issues I suspect it will become a chore for him and he will drop it sooner. I enjoy reading his stuff and trust him more than most not to introduce political censorship, so I hope he continues to interpret his brief broadly.

106413 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark, 5, #139 of 1278 🔗


107240 ▶▶▶▶ rational actor, replying to Will, 3, #140 of 1278 🔗

Disagree. The focus on lockdown/covid hysteria is important, but it is also vital to highlight the fact that the mentality that got us into this situation is hard at work screwing up other aspects of our lives as well. It is no accident that the Mask Gestapo overlaps significantly with people who think free speech hertz their feelz. This is only the beginning of a long campaign.

106619 ▶▶▶ John Ballard, replying to Eddie, 7, #141 of 1278 🔗

Half the population the media could tell them to drink unicorn milk and sprinkle ferry dust on their masks and they would be straight off to Tesco’s to try and buy it. Until this I never knew how stupid we had become. Shame the universities don’t do a degree in common sense and not believing everything you are told.

107061 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John Ballard, 3, #142 of 1278 🔗

Universities would not be able to run courses in common sense.

107261 ▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Rowan, #143 of 1278 🔗

Though I suspect they would have an intimate knowledge of the procedure and punishment for potentially using the wrong pronouns to address somebody.

106039 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, 17, #144 of 1278 🔗

Looking back at this year (+?) Future generations would be generous to label the governments reaction to Covid as childlike.

106042 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 19, #145 of 1278 🔗

Agree 100%. And to think we laughed as kids when we heard of pockets full of posies for the plague or people chucking shite onto their own street dying of dysentery. Lockdown has been a completely joke novel ‘treatment’ that a 10 year old could’ve said wouldn’t work.

106050 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #146 of 1278 🔗

Well, the bit about burning a “witch” if she floated (sank?) would run a good second.

106088 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ConstantBees, 12, #147 of 1278 🔗

In England, witches were hanged, not burned.
Sank: innocent, drowned, dead.
Floated: guilty, hanged, dead.
Zombie mentality. It’s all around us. I know how those ‘witches’ must have felt.

107064 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, #148 of 1278 🔗

Do not be too hard on yourself.

107214 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rowan, 1, #149 of 1278 🔗

Watch it, I can put spells on people, you know.

106624 ▶▶▶ John Ballard, replying to karenovirus, 3, #150 of 1278 🔗

Couldn’t agree more and the scary thing is that they are all as bad as each other. Never known such a bunch of half baked halfwits in charge of the country, in Government and opposition. All completely unvotable. I thought Corbyn would have been a disaster, but seeing the Buffoon, Hancock and the rest, he couldn’t have been any worse.

107066 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John Ballard, 4, #151 of 1278 🔗

I’m of the opinion that much of the stupidity is intentional and is a distraction from the evil agenda that underlies the world wide Covid fiasco.

107117 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Rowan, 2, #152 of 1278 🔗

Yep. At least people are talking about it now.

In February The Agenda was firmly in realms of conspiracy theory and discounted by almost EVERYBODY automatically.

Well, how things have changed.

106062 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to richard riewer, 10, #153 of 1278 🔗

Read about the European Witch Craze of the 17th century. This is a doddle in comparison. Though has many similarities (I’ve a theory that the psychological process is the same).

106063 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #154 of 1278 🔗

Actually – the witch hunts were less lethal than the lockdown in England and Wales. In Scotland and the rest of Western Europe, not so.

106075 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #155 of 1278 🔗

Have you looked at the 18C tulip mania into which the majority of people with money bought into a crazy self perpetuating price bubble until it eventually crashed? Difference between that and lockdownmania is that the government didn’t start and perpetuate it, just looked on in bewilderment as people bankrupted themselves over the price of a tulip bulb.

106077 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to karenovirus, 5, #156 of 1278 🔗

Yes. I read Mackay’s Madness of Crowds years ago. I need to dig that book back out again.

106159 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 3, #157 of 1278 🔗

Very similar to modern day crypto currencies such as Bitcoin.

106374 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to karenovirus, 6, #158 of 1278 🔗

South Sea Bubble too ‘A company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is.’ (1720)

106094 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #159 of 1278 🔗

I’d been researching the English witch trials going into this, for a project I’m working on. You’re right, a lot of the psychological processes were similar and it seems a lot of the public became very sceptical.

Spooky facts:
Malleus Maleficarum, the 15th century document that essentially sparked the craze across Europe, was produced 30 years after the invention of the printing press, allowing it to be distributed across the continent.

The web, as we know, made it’s debut in 1990

106114 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #160 of 1278 🔗

Many years ago, I bought a paper back copy.Gruesome reading matter.

106153 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to PoshPanic, 15, #161 of 1278 🔗

Have you read the Malleus Malleficarum? I used to have a copy. Absolutely bonkers, And chilling. Mild ‘persuasion’ equals hanging a woman up from the rafters by her thumbs. It was regarded as ‘The Science’ of the day.

The Witch Craze was very much disseminated by lawyers, medical doctors and other so-called ‘experts’. It was top-down imposed on a population that suffered mass hysteria as a result – dobbing in neighbours as witches for example.In one case, a German mayor was accused as a witch by his political enemies. They accused him of digging up the corpse of a child for a satanic ritual. He protested his innocence and the grave was dug up to reveal the child’s bones – but the witch ‘experts’ claimed that satan had created a facsimile of the bones to hide the mayor’s crimes. He was burned.

In Scotland, it was particularly bad – because the idiot king, James VI (later the 1st of England) was utterly paranoid that a witch cult roamed the land.
History indeed is repeating itself.

106276 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mr Dee, #162 of 1278 🔗

The writer, Kramer, managed to use his supposed support from Rome ( it was a technicality ), to beat back the sceptical voices at the time.
King James also wrote Daemonologie, based partly on Kramers writings.

106463 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #163 of 1278 🔗

…but the witch ‘experts’ claimed that satan had created a facsimile of the bones to hide the mayor’s crimes.

I didn’t realise the WHO existed in the C16th.

106712 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #164 of 1278 🔗

They didn’t, but their mentality did.

106154 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #165 of 1278 🔗


Watch this: excellent adaptation of ‘The Ash Tree’ by MR James. Made when the Beeb produced good dramas. An account of the persecution of local village women.

A favourite of mine.

106282 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to wendyk, 1, #166 of 1278 🔗

Thanks for the tip. Love the atmosphere of the films from this era.

106691 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mr Dee, #167 of 1278 🔗

I still have Trevor-Roper’s book on the Witch Craze in my library.

106697 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, #168 of 1278 🔗

‘The Discovery of the Mind’ is a must read. A good antidote to all this stupidity.

106074 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to richard riewer, 8, #169 of 1278 🔗

i am wondering how it will be referred to in years to come. Like the Tulip mania or South Sea Bubble….what will people call this outbreak of collective insanity?

106083 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sophie123, 5, #170 of 1278 🔗
106102 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Sophie123, 4, #171 of 1278 🔗

The Great Cancellation

106375 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #172 of 1278 🔗

Incarceration perhaps?

106397 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sophie123, 5, #173 of 1278 🔗

The Great Corona Cockup of 2020.

106414 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #174 of 1278 🔗


‘The Great Corona Con Trick of 2020’.

106434 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to T. Prince, 1, #175 of 1278 🔗

Corona Con-trick Catastrophe

106706 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sophie123, 3, #176 of 1278 🔗

Der Götterdämmerung.

107075 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sophie123, #177 of 1278 🔗

Bill Gates will likely have no intention of allowing those who will survive, the luxury of philosophical discussions concerning the Great Vaccine Cull of 2021-22.

106101 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, 14, #178 of 1278 🔗

Future historians will mark this time as the year when people went bananas and loco. Plus they will make fun of us just as we make fun of the Medieval response to the Black Death.

106121 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #179 of 1278 🔗

Sadly, I don’t think so. In order to become a historian in future, you will have to show yourself to be a conformist. For a start, you’ll have to observe all the virus precautions in your own institution – that are never going away.


It is now seeming to me that the public may always have been just as gullible and stupid as they are now, but it can only be seen clearly when organised into a huge, coherent wave of stupidity e.g. Diana’s funeral.

Sadly for us, the advent of internet and ‘social media’ has created a permanent wave of organised, coherent stupidity.

106136 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #180 of 1278 🔗

Hopefully it won’t go that way but you’re spot on about academia now and that’s why I’m perversely glad that I ran out of money which meant I couldn’t continue with my PhD.

It is now seeming to me that about 85% of the public may always have been just as gullible and stupid as they are now, but that it is the internet and ‘social media’ that has created a critical mass of organised insanity that is now unstoppable.

This is so true and social media has given them a platform to expose their gullibility and stupidity to millions out there.

106168 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #181 of 1278 🔗

No change really, they are just as gullible as ever. Before they had the internet and social media people were brainwashed by newspapers, TV, and the Church.

Too many people need to be told how to think and this will never change.

106211 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 5, #182 of 1278 🔗

Exactly. I look at people I know post selfies of themselves on Arsebook or Narcisstgram wearing muzzles and I despair.

The gullible will always be with us.

106221 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #183 of 1278 🔗

The worst thing any Gov wants is people who can think for themselves.

106404 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to JohnB, 10, #184 of 1278 🔗

What is worrying are the so called intelligentsia with absolutely no common sense at all.

106405 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to David Grimbleby, 8, #185 of 1278 🔗

True. They couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery even if their lives depended on it. Plus they live in cloud cuckoo land.

106518 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #186 of 1278 🔗

Millions of the equally gullible and stupid.

106164 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #187 of 1278 🔗

Don’t forget that these future historians from prestigious Universities are now the ones who are protesting to have statues removed, they have no problem erasing history.

107265 ▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to JohnB, #188 of 1278 🔗

Not all statues. There is one of Robert Byrd in a Virginia legislative building. Leftists are fighting to the death to protect this statue of a disgusting racial segregationist, who led the protests against the 1964 Civil Rights act. Apparently it’s nothing to do with the fact that he was mates with Biden, & saint Obama gave the eulogy at his funeral…

106733 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #189 of 1278 🔗

The internet created a medium for the dissemination of the best and the worst of human thought.

106148 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #190 of 1278 🔗


106505 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, #191 of 1278 🔗

Remind me: What was Winston Smith’s job for the Ministry of Truth ……..

106728 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #192 of 1278 🔗

I would give the Medieval response the benefit of the doubt compared to the people who are making decisions for us today.

106181 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to richard riewer, 12, #193 of 1278 🔗

“There are many ways to save lives, but not at the expense of life itself.” —Michael Levitt

106458 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richard riewer, #194 of 1278 🔗

Maoist China had its moments – but it kept them discretely to itself.

106722 ▶▶ Edward, replying to richard riewer, 1, #195 of 1278 🔗

It’s certainly the biggest sequence of bad decisions by multiple nations since World War 1.

107057 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to richard riewer, 3, #196 of 1278 🔗

It will get a lot worse, once we’ve been injected with Gates’s genocidal witches brew. Very dark days ahead.

107116 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Rowan, #197 of 1278 🔗

Just say no.

106040 karenovirus, 9, #198 of 1278 🔗

Re Toby’s piece about the NHS waiting list, 15million backlog.
A neighbour broke her little finger on Tuesday, not wanting to bother doctor she went to A&E from where she got a referral for treatment for outpatient treatment today, straight to the front of the queue.

Perhaps they have done what airports do when planes are grounded for a while. In the evening there are 50,000 stranded passengers waiting for flights, by morning there are none.
Miracle of Biblical proportions? No they just got cancelled and are now people without tickets hanging around the airport so why don’t they just go away.

106041 Amitis, 1, #199 of 1278 🔗

One man against all this craziness and fraud !

106044 annie, replying to annie, 35, #200 of 1278 🔗

Paris to be totally gagged from today.


The City of Light the cradle of the Enlightenment, the city of Voltaire, the city of artists and philosophers, the capital of the contestataire , surrenders to voodoo obscurantism.
No wonder Descartes ended up in Sweden.

106045 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 11, #201 of 1278 🔗

Interesting headline “undeniable surge”, implies other ‘surges’ are deniable (sp?).

106046 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 17, #202 of 1278 🔗

And the same article evokes a (surprise) ‘second wave’ in Spain, Europe’s face-nappy capital.
As they say, do the math.

106737 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 2, #203 of 1278 🔗

Do the mask.

106165 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 20, #204 of 1278 🔗

Regarding Sweden, as of this morning’s stats we now have 2 regions with NO hospitalised patients, and a further 8 regions have only 1 or 2 in hospital. So 10 out of the 21 regions have 2 or fewer patients in hospital with the virus.

In the country as a whole, there are 13 fewer people in hospital than there were just 3 days ago – quite a big drop..

There are now only 4 regions that have more than 7 hospitalised patients with CV 19, and these are the biggest 4 regions in terms of population. Uppsala has 12, Skåne (Malmö area) has 16, Stockholm has 44 and the Gothenburg area has 49. Even in Stockholm and Gothenburg only a combined total of 13 of these patients are in intensive care.

Good news and worth pointing out to anyone saying Sweden is a disaster!

106185 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Carrie, 4, #205 of 1278 🔗

Good intel, Carrie

106214 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 4, #206 of 1278 🔗

Viva Sweden!!!

106226 ▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, 2, #207 of 1278 🔗

No wonder Voltaire spent so much of his life fighting the French Establishment and about as far away from Paris as he could.

106379 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TJN, 3, #208 of 1278 🔗

I recommend ‘Passionate Minds’ by David Bodanis, about his lengthy and controversial relationship with the truly remarkable Emilie du Chatelet, the aristocrat who became a pioneering physicist and court gambler.

She was years ahead of her time.

106856 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to wendyk, 3, #209 of 1278 🔗

I know about his relationship with Emilie, although it’s a fair time since I read a biography of him. Clearly, she was a remarkable woman.

It’s not generally recalled that Voltaire spent over two years in London, probably the most formative period of his intellectual life. I don’t think he’d glean much from staying there in recent years though.

106896 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TJN, 1, #210 of 1278 🔗

No! I think he’d leave on the next boat!

106364 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to annie, 1, #211 of 1278 🔗

Ich bin ein (hole-less) doughnut (something like that).

106489 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to annie, 9, #212 of 1278 🔗

Seeing police in Paris entering the cafe
Clever quote

“It’s interesting how – apparently – people are so afraid of the virus you have to enforce social distancing on them by – for the greater good – using brutal police force, because, they can’t evaluate the risk for themselves, so kind and thoughtful of the state.

106047 annie, replying to annie, 17, #213 of 1278 🔗

As head of the awarding committee for the Covid Stupid Award, this week I’m torn between the Dean of the University of Virginia (nobody to come within six feet of anybody else, ever) and the couple who put a full-size face nappy on their baby.
Any other contestsnts?
Which should win?

106055 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to annie, 10, #214 of 1278 🔗

It seems like we have a tie! So many stupid people about it’s becoming a problem. Some doctor or nurse in India put a nasal swab up a newborn’s nose and damaged its brain, the mother had tested positive for Covid so they thought they’d test the baby as well!! As I said so many stupid people around

106057 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #215 of 1278 🔗

Can you link me to that one? A strong contender.

106236 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #217 of 1278 🔗

The nasal swab and its dangers seem to be constantly dismissed. I had an op years ago to remove some of the bone in my nose to improve breathing. If I ever have to have this test there may well be an unexpected path for the swab to get to places it shouldn’t. These cases, and any in adults where it also no doubt has happened, should be given wide publicity. Test and Kill should be the new buzzword.

106066 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bella Donna, 14, #218 of 1278 🔗

Oh god, that’s fucking awful. The poor child and parents. I feel sick.

106067 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 11, #219 of 1278 🔗

It’s happened twice ?
Anybody know of other similar incidents? Maybe they’ve happened but been suppressed…
My God. My God.

106068 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 16, #220 of 1278 🔗

PS. This is wicked, not stupid. It’s off the end of the scale for stupid.

106069 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 7, #221 of 1278 🔗

Problem is people are so myopic in the UK that these tragic events won’t galvanise them against the potential dangers of the test unless it happens here. And even then they’ll mumble it was ‘worth it to save one life’.

106087 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #222 of 1278 🔗

Murder a baby to save my life, that’s fine by me, eh?

106150 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #223 of 1278 🔗

That’s not stupidity, it’s malpractice, he should be stuck off and facing jail.

106116 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #224 of 1278 🔗

The Dean wouldn’t dare step foot in the still busy cafe where I’m currently having breakfast.

106186 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to annie, 2, #225 of 1278 🔗

Chap I saw emerge from a gents’ cubicle fully masked? Or maybe the previous occupant had left it rather pungent?

106813 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fiat, #226 of 1278 🔗

Did he perhaps pinch the mask the previous occupant had discarded?

106215 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 6, #227 of 1278 🔗

Saw a woman masked and gloved put newspapers on the seats she was going to park her bum and bag in the Underground. Most odd.

106051 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #228 of 1278 🔗
106071 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #229 of 1278 🔗

They have my support. And I admired the BBC before all this.

106207 ▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #230 of 1278 🔗

See Trustpilot BBC
Over 7,000 responses, 93% of them 1 star out of 5
Add your resonse?

106393 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Marie R, 1, #231 of 1278 🔗

Done it a few days ago. Wish I could have given them 0. I can’t remember my exact words (which were scathing), but I did direct them to the Swiss Doctor website as a source for future reporting.

106108 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #232 of 1278 🔗

This is at least one concrete and immediate step which can be taken to reap some small improvement from this disaster.

But it’s down to the government, so the odds are they will be too cowardly to go through with it. If they do it will probably be with all kinds of “protections” so we end up in not much better a situation than we are in now.;

106122 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, 4, #233 of 1278 🔗

Except that we can all do our bit by cancelling the BBC ourselves.

106191 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to karenovirus, 2, #234 of 1278 🔗


106175 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Mark, 4, #235 of 1278 🔗

I wasn’t aware until last week that the television licence is required to watch any live television; that is, not just the BBC but any of the other channels too.

106195 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Edna, 3, #236 of 1278 🔗

It really is a bizarre anachronism, that should have been scotched decades ago.

106286 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 5, #237 of 1278 🔗

Yes. When it was thought up, it was literally a licence that allowed you to have a new-fangled television. A real rarity and a sign of some wealth. Until relatively recently, even owning a TV set made you liable for the licence fee. At the time, there was only the BBC and it made logical sense to charge people who had a television for the cost of making television programming and running the channel. As time has gone on, and more and more different ways of receiving and consuming ‘television’ programming have come along (first commercial terrestrial channels, then satellite, then cable, then the internet and streaming), then the funding model has become less and less justifiable, to the point where its internal logic no longer works – I have to pay the BBC for the right to watch a live broadcast on a streaming service, but not if I want to watch any other piece of programming that is not live on the same streaming service (unless it’s the iPlayer). I’m sorry, what?

Add to that the fact that the concept of paying for the right to own a television has become obsolete to the extent that it’s not even one of the rules anymore. This has happened in two ways – first of all, what’s the difference between a monitor linked to a speaker and a television, nowadays? Is the television that is connected to my PC and not to any aerial, satellite box or cable box a television or a monitor? Secondly, people consume “television” programming through all sorts of other devices. Off the top of my head, in my house right now, we have 11 devices, on any of which I could watch “television” right now.

The set up is so anachronistic that it’s become a joke. Nonetheless, you could present an argument for continuing to fund public service broadcasting through some sort of tax model – but only if the BBC were actually doing the job that it is supposed to do (and laughably claims to do) instead of openly pushing a specific political and social agenda through every single second of its output.

106847 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to matt, #238 of 1278 🔗

A few pounds on broadband each month would be reasonable. To be divvied out to all content providers if they do genuine public service stuff.

106217 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Edna, 3, #239 of 1278 🔗

Indeed to watch any live tv channel or use bbc iplayer you need a licence – not sure of the history of this and seems a bit nuts.
Without a licence you can watch catchup tv e.g. go to itv website and view programmes from there, or netflix/amazon etc.
I haven’t cancelled my licence yet as i download from iplayer when go away, but very tempted when up for renewal.

107250 ▶▶▶▶▶ rational actor, replying to Sue, 2, #240 of 1278 🔗

A few years ago some TV licensing thug rang our small office and claimed that if we had computers or laptops capable of receiving TV programming, we needs a license for the premises. He was threatening enough that our office admin got nervous and put him through to the MD, who promptly told him to fuck off and not call back. He didn’t. The end.

If you are going to stop paying either tell them that you do not have a TV or just never open the door unless you are expecting someone. Apparently the licensing guys nab many single mothers who unthinkingly answer the door while the TV is on. Consider it a form of peaceful protest without the arson.

106271 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Edna, 1, #241 of 1278 🔗

Consider yourself lucky in that regard – in Ireland, mere possession of a device capable of receiving TV signals makes you liable for a licence. An unconnected aerial or satellite dish on your roof means you need a licence.

106900 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ewan Duffy, #242 of 1278 🔗

Yikes! That’s really unfair.

106474 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Edna, 2, #243 of 1278 🔗

BBC should be defunded. We want freedom to watch what we want.

106743 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Edna, #244 of 1278 🔗

Watch TV online instead.

106052 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #245 of 1278 🔗

Where is the 2nd wave Bojo promised us 2 weeks ago?

106054 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bella Donna, 16, #246 of 1278 🔗

I jumped over it down on Prestatyn beach the other day.

106058 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #247 of 1278 🔗

You made a bit of a splash then!

106105 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #248 of 1278 🔗
106199 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #249 of 1278 🔗

50? Zero, more like

106410 ▶▶▶ Philip F, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #250 of 1278 🔗

Thanks. That was a nice bit of nostalgia.

106665 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Philip F, #251 of 1278 🔗

You’re welcome. Used to watch it as well.

106113 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #252 of 1278 🔗

They’ve been banging on about the 2nd wave since April, it’s still hasn’t materialised. Only second waves of testing.

106749 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #253 of 1278 🔗

They are probably having meetings discussing how to create this badly needed second wave.

106125 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #254 of 1278 🔗

Same place as the one he promised in May
And June
and July.

106129 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 2, #255 of 1278 🔗

They’re all behind the cushion, together with that ‘Do or Die’ Brexit from October.

106147 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #256 of 1278 🔗

Don’t worry the deaths from Flu over the winter months will be the second wave. Get prepared for more lockdown

106218 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 3, #257 of 1278 🔗

Plus don’t forget the health problems associated with mask wearing – hypercapnia, hypoxia, gum disease, migraines, headaches, etc – they will be put down as Covid 19.

106072 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 16, #258 of 1278 🔗

Dr Simone Gold is my Heroine.


HCQ treatment negates the argument for a vaccine – especially a dodgy one where all the ferrets died when it was put to the test.


Boris needs to reclaim the billions he gave, or promised to the vaccine manufacturers and spend it to revive the high street and support the little businesses he has crippled.

106132 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to PastImperfect, 7, #259 of 1278 🔗

HCQ working negates the cases for Remdesivir, vaccines, lockdowns, SD and masks.
And that’s exactly why the fatwa against it had to be started in the first place and must continue.
Otherwise, politicians, virologists and epudimiologists will be HDQd, the media will implode and the 90% of the population which supported those measures and believed the propaganda will be traumatized.

106155 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #260 of 1278 🔗

I believe I read it had been approved for use in Australia now? If so maybe Tony Abbot can make Boris see sense!

106447 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to PastImperfect, #261 of 1278 🔗

Pretty well everything negates the argument for a vaccine, from cheap drugs to plasma transfusion to the acquisition of natural immunity by younger people, which I strongly favour. But the money in advance purchase agreements is irrecoverable and a true free marketer would say that the high street is no more worthy of support than the obsolete coal mining industry.

106471 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, 1, #262 of 1278 🔗

The difference of course is that the mining industry was obsolete but being sustained at government expense (ie everyone else’s taxes), whereas the high street is (arguably,at any rate) not (yet) obsolete, but has been harmed by government action for the (supposed) greater good.

106565 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, 1, #263 of 1278 🔗

Indeed, I had that at the back of my mind and do accept that more short term compensation would be appropriate to tide over the truly small entrepreneurs like kh1485 (where are they?). Just not keen on propping up the likes of M&S with taxpayers’ money. Or their offshore landlords. Depends a bit on what people are thinking of when they talk about the High Street.

106872 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Mark, #264 of 1278 🔗

Is mining really that obsolete when Drax is subsidised to ship wood pellets from the US.

106073 Lord Rickmansworth, 4, #265 of 1278 🔗

EVERYONE RING LBC NOW! 03456060973 Doing a debate about the seconde wave and increased testing. I’ve just tried and although poo poo’d be the researcher for using ONS statistics, I don’t think I’ll get on.


106078 Sophie123, replying to Sophie123, 36, #266 of 1278 🔗

So yesterday I received an email from the school my daughter (13) is due to start at in 10 days. It’s a well known boarding school. She’s super excited to be going, and I need her to board because of my job and my husbands, both of which (usually) involve large amounts of international travel. They want to test everyone within a few days of arrival for corona for “peace of mind”. Oh, and charge me for it!

I don’t want to cause trouble for her, but I feel I have to object this. Can you help me check my reasons? This is an excerpt from my response which says I will not permit her to be tested until my questions have been answered to my satisfaction:

1) what is the purpose of the test, other than to offer peace of mind? and to whom would it offer peace of mind? Why would an explanation of the facts not offer a similar peace of mind and was this not considered? The facts being:

a) PCR tests detect viral fragments, and are not necessarily indicative of active infection. Patients may continue to test positive long after initial infection (up to 8 weeks or more) and long after they are contagious.

b) With the low levels of virus circulating in the community at present, and the levels of specificity of the test, a positive result is broadly as likely to be an error as it is representative of infection when a person shows no symptoms

c) Asymptomatic spread (as opposed to pre-symptomatic spread) is incredibly rare, as increasing amounts of research will attest (I can supply references if required)

2) What would happen if my daughter were to test COVID-19 positive but was asymptomatic? Would she be sent home? kept in isolation? For how long?

3) What would happen if my daughter were deemed to have been in contact with someone who was asymptomatic but tested positive? would she be sent home or kept in isolation in this instance? Again, for how long?

I do worry that my daughter’s freedom and education might be compromised on the basis of giving “peace of mind” – which, to me, does not seem a fair balance of risk.

I would also like to register my concerns over the ethics of requiring somebody to submit to what amounts to a somewhat invasive medical procedure that offers no benefit to the patient – especially a child.

I am wholly supportive of testing where patients might be exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19 so that they might be isolated and receive treatment as appropriate, as is the case with other viral infections.

I am in a quandary. They haven’t said YET that it is necessary and mandatory. I just feel it is utterly stupid and liable to cause potential disruption to no end. It won’t give anyone peace of mind because those who are frightened are behaving irrationally and getting tests won’t stop them being irrational.

106082 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sophie123, 14, #267 of 1278 🔗

Your facts are spot on. My only quibble being with 1 b) – if you get a positive test right now, it is in fact much less likely that you’re infected than that it is a false positive.

I would say that, as a private institution, it is up to the school to impose what rules it wants to. If you could demonstrate that it’s discrimination you might have a compelling argument, but I can’t see an angle on that. In terms of imposing a medical procedure – they’re not. Your daughter has a choice either to take the test or not attend the school. Requiring a risk assessment is fine, but with hundreds of thousands of people being tested daily, I would think it would be hard to show that there’s a significant risk. You’ve asked the right questions to undermine the policy, but it will be up to them whether they change the policy. Sorry.

106085 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to matt, 16, #268 of 1278 🔗

Thanks Matt. I guessed you were right on my legal position. And we already had tests to go on holiday (country required it) so I am not that bothered about them per se , It’s more that I want to register my disgust at the futility of it all.

If they think all parents are coronadeluded, then there will be no limit to the lunacy to which my daughter will be subjected in the name of “peace of mind”. I am concerned now that she could be in the care of rabid corona fanatics.

106230 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 8, #269 of 1278 🔗

My issue with the test isn’t so much the test itself, but the possibility of being found positive and forced to isolate even though you are not ill and not a danger to others. The risk is of lost education and liberty.

106244 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Julian, 5, #270 of 1278 🔗

Exactly! Though with the 2 reports of deaths as a result of PCR tests up-page (albeit in far younger children), I don’t think we can conclude the test is risk-free anyway. I may throw that in. Certainly they can cause nosebleeds anyway – why should she risk a nose bleed to reassure some faceless somebody who needs pacifying?

106256 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sophie123, 5, #271 of 1278 🔗

with the 2 reports of deaths as a result of PCR tests up-page (albeit in far younger children), I don’t think we can conclude the test is risk-free anyway. I may throw that in. Certainly they can cause nosebleeds anyway

Definitely – if there’s one thing likely to make them worry, it’s the possibility of being accused of causing harm themselves.

Might be worth throwing in whatever you can find on this and asking them for a personal, absolute guarantee that the tests will cause no harm to your child.

108119 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Sophie123, #272 of 1278 🔗

Anyone who demands that I get tested and causes my nose to bleed will have damaged the membrane just under my brain. If this ever occurs, then I will make their nose bleed too; fair’s fair.

106104 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sophie123, 7, #273 of 1278 🔗

Matt as usual is pretty sound, I think.

The only point I’d raise is that they haven’t actually stated this as a condition and it might well be that they are open to exceptions or to persuasion. Then again, while your arguments are good, as you say it’s likely they are mostly concerned to reassure the basically irrational, and so they probably aren’t really interested in the actual facts of the situation. It’s theatre.

Clearly this is not make or break for you, so your approach of just raising reasonable queries seems to be the best one.

106151 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sophie123, 8, #274 of 1278 🔗

I have further questions:

Do the school *only* intend to test pupils the once, as you say ‘within a few days of arrival’, or are you by agreeing, also giving permission for random future tests?

Why wait a few days before testing? Surely if the point is to give ‘peace of mind’ (to other parents?), pupils should be tested *on arrival*, or bring with them a test from their own GP that has been carried out within, say, the last 10 days – if indeed the aim is to ensure that no one brings the virus into the school when they arrive at the start of term.

What will be the school’s policy regarding exeats? If parents visit their child during the term, or a child goes home for the weekend, will they be re-testing children again?

Is the school *only* boarding, or are there day pupils there as well? What is the testing policy for them?

What is their policy on masks?

I would also be asking what – if any – the school’s policy is regarding flu vaccines – it has happened before that schools have carried these out without asking the parents’ permission, deeming children of 13 as ‘Gillick competent’, ie able to make their own decisions regarding medical treatments.

I’d also be asking for a copy of the school’s risk assessment..

106248 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Carrie, 7, #275 of 1278 🔗

Oh very good Carrie. Thank you! After hearing of those 2 deaths of babies up-page caused by testing, I do want a risk assessment. That’s 2 more deaths caused by PCR than we have had of healthy children from COVID in this country I believe.

106157 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Sophie123, 9, #276 of 1278 🔗

During my years practicing as children’s nurse, it’s drummed into you that every single medical intervention has risk. The balance has to be struck between harm and benefit, if the risk of harming the child with no discernable benefit, I wouldn’t perform it.

If your daughter is subjected to a naso-pharyngeal swab, I would want a properly
qualified children’s nurse or school nurse, with appropriate training and risk assessment.

Show them this – https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/07/15/Coronavirus-Saudi-child-dies-due-to-a-COVID-19-test-swab-breaking-in-his-nose

The frequency of a procedure significantly increases the risk.

Obviously your daughter has minimal risk of sustaining trauma from a swab, it focuses the mind of the performing the swab. Make you get their name and it’s audited that it’s signed off every time the swab is performed.

106252 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #277 of 1278 🔗

Thank you Winston. I had thought of that as I was out cycling this morning. I will add it to my response.

107133 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #278 of 1278 🔗

What your daughter REALLY doesn’t want is a stressed-out idiot of a PE teacher in a mask, , visor, gloves and apron mashing a 10 inch cotton bud around in your child’s head a few millimetres from the base of her brain.


106284 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Sophie123, 5, #279 of 1278 🔗

Suggest you request school to first supply certificates of negative tests for every single teacher, cook, cleaner, gardener, all peripatetic teaching staff who go in and out (they were the spreaders in care homes, no reason to think it will be different in a boarding school), to ensure that they are not the source of the ‘completely harmless to children’ virus, which ‘after a few days’ ought to be spreading in this enclosed environment? To the benefit of the children themselves, by providing them with a primed immune system for the future? And if the fear is for vulnerable teachers, you assume they will be isolated and only expected to teach remotely – they may in extremis need to consider whether this is the right career for them?
If you really wanted to go the full Monty, enquire about so called deep cleaning procedures they may have been implementing, ‘fogging’ of soft furnishings etc etc. You might disapprove of the dangerous precedent of depriving children of a normal virus loaded environment in which to train their immune systems.

106343 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Sophie123, 6, #280 of 1278 🔗

Excellent replies. my two year old grandson returned from the first few days of nursery school after long isolation from his friends (some weeks ago) with a sniffle (surprise!). He and parents had to be tested before he was allowed back. All negative thank goodness. He took it like the brave little soldier he is (just another bit of grownup insanity) but his dad was less impressed by having swabs stuck up his nose.

106470 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sophie123, 5, #281 of 1278 🔗

Challenging the school is very important. Our school published a bus policy where all children were required to wear a mask on the bus. They only changed it when they became aware that under 11’s are not required to wear a mask. It seems as if they sit in their offices and think how can we appease parents from both sides (terrified — this is bonkers) without actually doing research to get the facts and then devise a policy without applying any critical thinking.

Very important to find out what will happen next, i.e various examples in this discussion thread

106879 ▶▶ alw, replying to Sophie123, 5, #282 of 1278 🔗

Heard that a junior school (private) will be sending all children with a snotty nose home until their nose stops running. WTF…so many young children seem to have permanently snotty noses will there be any left at school?

107000 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to alw, 3, #283 of 1278 🔗

A snotty nose is and has not been a symptom of Covid 19, so what is their reasoning? I assume it is a new policy invented to “stop the spread”?

106079 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 28, #284 of 1278 🔗

In terms of future generations looking back on this as an equivalent of the South Sea Bubble or Tulip Mania, I suggest the Great Viral Lobotomy: the era when a fairly run of the mill viral infection led to a voluntary suspension of insight, personal responsibility, maturity and rationality.

This cognitive and social decline was fostered and maintained by ineffectual politicians, and driven by media hyperbole and bias, reliance on an army of implausible so called experts and the endemic risk aversion of the public at large.

Other suggestions welcome.

106091 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to wendyk, 7, #285 of 1278 🔗

The ‘rona. 2020 tour

106106 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Chris John, 5, #286 of 1278 🔗

Good one!

The Covid Conundrum: an era when mindless emoting,aided and abetted by so called democratic governments, led to the cultish, unquestioning adulation of certain institutions and leaders.

Dissent and expert opinions which countered the official narrative were repudiated and suppressed.

106118 ▶▶ stew, replying to wendyk, 3, #287 of 1278 🔗

to me it looks like europe marching to war in 1914 ‘it’ll be over by christmas’ or the medieval dancing outbreaks

106156 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stew, 5, #288 of 1278 🔗

The danse macabre

106323 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to stew, 1, #289 of 1278 🔗

There is at least a scientific explanation for the Tarantella (St. Anthony’s fire, ergotism).

106313 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to wendyk, 4, #290 of 1278 🔗

Thurber’s ‘The Day the Dam Broke’ is brilliant, highly recommended. http://storyoftheweek.loa.org/2019/12/the-day-dam-broke.html

106385 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #291 of 1278 🔗

Thanks for the tip. I love the -timely-cartoon.

106416 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to wendyk, #292 of 1278 🔗

Well put.

106090 RationalMissMuffet, replying to RationalMissMuffet, 1, #293 of 1278 🔗

Not sure why you tipped this one. ‘Worth a watch’ because it reeks of Gates funding perhaps?
What does a positive Covid test tell you about the probability you have the virus? ‘ – good YouTube video about the reliability of tests that’s worth a watch

106208 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RationalMissMuffet, 5, #294 of 1278 🔗

Don’t need a video, just this FOI request answer from the DHSC:

One of my questions and the most important:

-supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.

The answer:

SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).

106299 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #295 of 1278 🔗

You should look at the video it shows that your reply from DHSC is disingenuous at best. With 2% false positives and 20% false negatives (both conservative figures) and 0.5% infection rate there is only a 17% (4/24) chance that a positive test indicates an infection. (5 infections, 1 missed, 20 false positives, 24 positive results per thousand)

106406 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #296 of 1278 🔗

A positive test does not mean an infection or case.

Never has done.

It just means that they have found viral DNA that they think might be of the correct type in the sample.

106448 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Awkward Git, #297 of 1278 🔗

It doesn’t even mean that, 20 false positives (RNA to be pedantic).

106492 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #298 of 1278 🔗

I don’t think the terminology matters, a positive test without any other symptoms (the main one being a persistent dry cough) means SFA except another big stick for them to try and beat us into submission with.

106097 stefarm, 12, #299 of 1278 🔗

I love listening to the news, classic confused reporting to keep the plebs confused.

Report from transport secretary – it is safe to return to work, no danger. Everybody back to work.

Greggs food site closed as a handful of workers tested positive – oh look yet another food site, the intelligent virus strikes again. No cases reported in police stations, supermarkets, fire stations, post sorting offices etc…

Aberdeen won 5-0 last night. Aberdeen that reported footballers going out enjoying themselves with other aberdonians leading to a mass lockdown. Can’t be that sick as they should be dead not playing football.

106098 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 14, #300 of 1278 🔗

8am BBC R4 News, reports BMJ conclusion that the chances of children being affected by Covid are “vanishingly small” and that only 6 had died of it during the crisis.

They call that news ? Obviously tried to keep that quiet until it suited their current agenda of getting the schools reopened

106139 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 2, #301 of 1278 🔗

Is that 6 in the UK or worldwide?

106141 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 6, #302 of 1278 🔗

UK, been the same for months, never got a mention in the MSM before.

106608 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #304 of 1278 🔗

Thank, it would have been cruel to assume they were already very ill but it’s not surprising

106099 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 22, #305 of 1278 🔗

goddamnit, why can’t we be Sweden?! This is starting to piss me off.

106131 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RyanM, 10, #306 of 1278 🔗

Its not just us – the rest of the world too has gone tonto. I always get pissed off every time I see photos of my 5 and 3 year old nieces muzzled and even wearing visors!!!

107123 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RyanM, #307 of 1278 🔗

You’ll love the smorgasbord.

106107 RyanM, 25, #308 of 1278 🔗

99.9986, unless I have an underlying conditions, which… It’s not obesity or diabetes, but I’m sure there’s some thing or another wrong with me. Does anxiety count? It’s caused by reading too many history books and then watching as your entire country starts making the same dumbshit errors that have already been written about and analyzed, but that nobody bothers to read, anymore.

106109 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 9, #309 of 1278 🔗

I have a 97.9992 chance of survival with my asthma and age!

106142 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bill Hickling, 1, #310 of 1278 🔗

Snap !

106160 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, #311 of 1278 🔗

Where’s the calculator?

106250 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sam Vimes, #312 of 1278 🔗

I assume it’s just based on the table Toby (Will, actually, in this case) quoted above the line today.

106264 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark, #313 of 1278 🔗

D’oh. Didn’t look, came straight to comments. Critical thinking/scrutiny cred blown! Thanks.

106809 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bill Hickling, #314 of 1278 🔗

Be very afraid!

107124 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #315 of 1278 🔗

Our high school chemistry teacher used to tell us to be very careful.

106110 Sikboy, replying to Sikboy, 18, #316 of 1278 🔗

The comment about the lack numeracy amongst our ruling class is really pertinent, I’m a mathematician myself and frankly it feels as though I’m speaking another language most of the time. Even when it comes to the most basic concepts – properly counting or shockingly enough… adding up!

I’m sure a lot of you have had the retort “why do you know better?” Sadly the reasoned response is met with “but you’re not a doctor.” Anybody have any responses that don’t result in me insulting them?

106119 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sikboy, 12, #317 of 1278 🔗

Basic (and I mean basic) arithmetic skills are a rare commodity, these days. Sad, but true. The number of folk that continue to say “I’m no good at maths/spelling”, and don’t do anything about it is really depressing.

106124 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #318 of 1278 🔗

I used to say “don’t worry I’m illiterate.” That got a few raised eyebrows.

106158 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sikboy, 43, #319 of 1278 🔗

Fave story, absolutely true. Somehow, I ended up in an intolerable situation where I was about 45 and my ‘manager’ was about 20. She apparently had a first class honours degree in Business Management.

The scene: we are planning training for the coming month…

Manager: “What date will Monday be?” (turns to look at Outlook Calendar)
Me (before she can look): “The 12th”
Manager: “What’s the Monday after that?” (turns to look at Outlook Calendar)
Me: (before she can look): “The 19th”
Manager: “What’s the Monday after that?” (turns to look at Outlook Calendar)
Me: (before she can look): “The 26th”
Manager: “How are you doing that?”
Me: “I’m adding seven on”
Manager: “Oh, I’m not good at maths…”

106225 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #320 of 1278 🔗

My father left school at 14 and could easily do that in his 90’s

106926 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, 2, #321 of 1278 🔗

My 8 year-old granddaughter could easily have done that!

106569 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #322 of 1278 🔗

I had a hospital test recently where the doctor asked me to count down in sevens: 100, 93, 86 and so on. It’s surprisingly difficult. I’d got down to the sixties before he said stop, I think he was just torturing me 🙂

106130 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #323 of 1278 🔗

I find it odd how people are perfectly happy to say these things without shame. I might not be able to remember all the maths I did at school (takes a bit of time to remember my Maclaurin series expansions, for example) but if I couldn’t do the basics correctly I think I’d be close to handing in my dinner pail.

106161 ▶▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Andrew Fish, 4, #324 of 1278 🔗

I’m impressed, rarely is the Maclaurin series mentioned!

106752 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Sikboy, 1, #325 of 1278 🔗

A special case of the Taylor series, if I remember rightly!

107056 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Edward, #326 of 1278 🔗

That’s right, somebody was copying homework!

106322 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #327 of 1278 🔗

There are over nine million people (9.000,000) in the UK who are currently classified as being functionally illiterate. This means that their reading, writing, and numeracy skills are below that needed to navigate their way in a modern society. Add to that millions more of the older generation who whilst being literate are not up to speed with modern computer skills and technology.

Which is why bank closures, the push to a cashless society and a total reliance on computers and smart phone technology is leaving so many people left behind and unable to cope. And this without an imaginary fatal virus that makes their situation even worse.

106402 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Harry hopkins, #328 of 1278 🔗

National Literacy Society, Jan (?) 2019: ‘16.4% of adults in England, or 7.1 million people, can be described as having ‘very poor literacy skills.’ They can understand short straightforward texts on familiar topics accurately and independently, and obtain information from everyday sources, but reading information from unfamiliar sources, or on unfamiliar topics, could cause problems. This is also known as being functionally illiterate.’
Are you adding in a whole 2M older age cohort whom you assume to be digitally inept, to get to 9M?
I agree with your main point, it’s a depressingly large %. It’s just that these numbers can creep into general discourse through Chinese whispers, and double counting is a problem.

106541 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Bruno, #329 of 1278 🔗

Guardian article 3/3/19—fifth paragraph down:


‘Nine million adults in the UK are functionally illiterate, and one in four British five-year-olds struggles with basic vocabulary. Three-quarters of white working-class boys fail to achieve the government’s benchmark at the age of 16′.

This does not include any ‘older age cohort’ as you put it. These numbers must be huge as I personally know very many people who are lost with modern technology.

106793 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #330 of 1278 🔗

I used to teach in a secondary school in a prosperous small town in Essex.There was a seven- form entrt, and in every one of the Year 7 forms, five or six out of 30-odd were functionally illiterate. One or two were totally illiterate, couldn’t read words of one syllable, or write their own names.
They were given no extra help and so moved inexorably up the school, leaving as illiterate as they had arrived.

106936 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #331 of 1278 🔗

My mum was a housewife who taught me to read before I went to school.
Nowadays, she’d be at work and I’d be childminded.

106436 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #332 of 1278 🔗

when i was a kid at school we would do “mental arithmetic” every day. basically training to do sums in your head – along with times tables. they stopped that years ago.

106479 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, 1, #333 of 1278 🔗

They did. Had to do it ourselves for our kids, back in the 90s.

106804 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 1, #334 of 1278 🔗

Did you play Buzz and Squeak in primary school?
‘Buzz’ meant counting round the form. You said ‘buzz’ instead of the number if it was divisible by 5. Then you added ‘squeak’ for a number divisible by 3. Thus 15 would be ‘buzz squeak!’
It was a matter of pride to speed up the the count, and if anybody missed a buzz or squeak, there were shrieks of derision.

106933 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #335 of 1278 🔗

We called it fizz bang. Taught it to my granddaughter last time I saw her. She loved it!

106897 ▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #336 of 1278 🔗

Sadly a lot of the Yoof seem rather proud of their stupidity. The pink haired pile of make-up and false eyelashes that is the barmaid in my local boozer seems to revel in her stupidity.

106120 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Sikboy, 13, #337 of 1278 🔗

Yes I’ve had this response, recently from a friend,who listens to Nicola.

Frankly, I’m mathematically challenged-(O level maths grade D marked the end of my struggles)-but common sense shows what a complete cock up all this has been.

106128 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to wendyk, 10, #338 of 1278 🔗

Absolutely, the biggest challenge we’re facing is the people thinking it’s beyond them. I can assure people, their common sense is on the money. Additionally, all those ‘clever’ models aren’t what they seem, as we all seem to know here.

106152 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sikboy, 4, #339 of 1278 🔗

Garbage in, garbage out. The ‘scientists’ and ‘experts’ are usually neither too!

106189 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #340 of 1278 🔗

Ferguson’s model may have been full of holes and flaws but the real mistake was the assumption that the data fed in (rate of transmission, IFR and start date) were all definitely true, and that no other scenarios were considered. As time went on and the real world showed more and more that the assumptions were probably incorrect, the unforgivable sin was not to revisit the exercise with more realistic parameters, but to continue to insist the initial assumptions must be true.

106240 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 2, #341 of 1278 🔗

the assumption that the data fed in (rate of transmission, IFR and start date) were all definitely true

Also the herd immunity threshold that they assumed, based on absurdly simplistic theorising, that was never going to be correct and was always, necessarily, going to be an overstatement of the danger, and in fact seems to have turned out to have been a very dramatic overstatement.

106220 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 2, #342 of 1278 🔗

Agree. I was a maths and science dunce but even I could see that a lot of the figures bandied about didn’t make sense.

106126 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to Sikboy, 18, #343 of 1278 🔗

I had a lot with my partner in the early days – “why do you know better than all this medical experts”? Turns out I did know better – as did all the other sceptics. My best approach with this line or argument is not to deny the existence on COVID-19, but to say response has been way over the top and lockdown has created 100 new problems to solve, which are worse. Putting death numbers and risk level into context usually calms people down. Also highlight that there is no scientific consensus and more and more experts across many fields – health, science, economics, psychology etc – do not agree with the MSM narrative.

106133 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Tommo, 9, #344 of 1278 🔗

Same here and equally so with my parents, as this has unfolded we should all feel vindicated.

106144 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Sikboy, 11, #345 of 1278 🔗

In many many conversations I’ve done the ‘we humans have coexisted with an army of bugs-some lethal, some less so, many little more than irritants and many many more residing symbiotically within and upon us; the latter being essential for maintenance of our well being.’

Followed up by- ‘we’re all still alive, but people’s livelihoods are being devastated : indebtedness, unemployment, lack of future prospects and a whole host of entirely foreseeable and until recently, treatable or at least manageable, conditions is now taking its toll. on public health’.

Regrettably, I haven’t managed to overcome the fear-driven OCD which now manifests in formerly stable,well educated and ostensibly intelligent acquaintances.

106193 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tommo, 8, #346 of 1278 🔗

My mother in law didn’t make it to secondary school, but knows it’s all bullshit. Common sense is sufficient.

106352 ▶▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Julian, 2, #347 of 1278 🔗

Absolutely correct!

107306 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, 1, #348 of 1278 🔗

Regular maintenance of the bullshit meter reader.

106234 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tommo, 5, #349 of 1278 🔗

When I encounter covid hysterics I point out that in our community 800 deaths were predicted, and that we haven’t had any, not one in six months

They never answer. They all have that ‘your a nutter’ look on their faces. They move away blissful in their ignorance

106260 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cecil B, 3, #350 of 1278 🔗

They don’t look at any evidence – for or against – they just go off what they’ve heard and make the rest up.

What’s really baffling is that, although they clearly think “We’re all going to die”, they can’t seem to see that, well, you know.. they haven’t!

106483 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #351 of 1278 🔗


106806 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, #352 of 1278 🔗

I doubt if they are very blissful.

106145 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sikboy, 18, #353 of 1278 🔗

Posted before about telling a woman why she was exempt from wearing a mask.
“That’s just your opinion” she replied.
No, it’s the law, I have it on my phone would you like to see it?
But she wandered off probably thinking it beyond her (probably right).

106149 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 12, #354 of 1278 🔗

“That’s just your opinion”…
The classic reply from someone who knows fuck all, can’t prove their point and certainly can’t disprove yours. As Shakespeare said, “I’ve shit ’em.”

106163 ▶▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #355 of 1278 🔗

Oh yes, that’s the fallback for the ignorant. Their ludicrous “all opinions are equal despite level of reasoning” approach.

107274 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #356 of 1278 🔗

I’ve used a version of this when leaving instructions in the box for a [appliance, toy, thing that needs building] “it’s just the manufacturer’s opinion” of what I should be doing right now..”

106146 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sikboy, 11, #357 of 1278 🔗

The journos are as bad, if not worse. There was one particular discussion of ‘the science’ a few weeks ago on Sky where Sophy Ridge (Oxford, English graduate) was questioning the correspondent, Sam Coates (Cambridge, English graduate). Breathtaking. Mind you, as a Biochemistry graduate, I do not find many supposed expert scientists’ grasp of ‘the science’ any more compelling!

106166 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #358 of 1278 🔗

Don’t you find that these ‘experts’ miss the foundations of science and then fly off on wild tangents? “Does my model approach describing reality? No, hmmmm. Just needs another variable!”


106228 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Sikboy, 5, #359 of 1278 🔗

The fascinating thing about maths, especially pure maths, is that a lot of the solutions involve reframing. Countabilty problems are like this. By looking at say a set of numbers in a different light and seeing arrangements you didn’t see before, solutions unlock themselves.

I don’t do a lot of pure maths anymore. I did quite a bit for my physics degree. But I kept a lot of the books. Advanced Calculus was one.

The analogy to life and risk is relevant.

106348 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to mhcp, 1, #360 of 1278 🔗

This is heartening to hear, Physics is a big interest of mine. Indeed I did my undergrad dissertation on differential geometry specifically on Gravitational Waves.

The ability to abstract and generalise is so crucial for making sense of the world. Totally with you on that.

106237 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sikboy, 7, #361 of 1278 🔗

Oh lordy it’s tough. Apologies to any smart doctors out there, but most of them just aren’t that bright. They either became doctors because they “wanted to help people” (laudable) or because their parents were doctors. They worked VERY HARD at school to get into medical school. The brighter ones often quit once qualified because it’s soul destroying repetitive work for the most part, dealing with an ungrateful general public.

I have the same issue at work because I don’t have a PhD. I came top in my year, was published as an undergraduate, but couldn’t face 3 more years of poverty, in a smelly lab, washing a lot of glassware to maybe get a couple more publications. Those who were able to tolerate that (or more likely, needed to make up for their weaker degree results to look more employable) did a PhD. Very few do a PhD for the love of the science.

106329 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Sophie123, 2, #362 of 1278 🔗

I’ve said this very thing countless times, it’s not a dig at Doctors, but you’re spot on. Similarly why I work in the private sector – I also think the Academy is seriously overrated in terms of talent (I’m not suggested I’m talented!). The private sector is judged by outcome, something which would help academics!

106287 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Sikboy, #363 of 1278 🔗

Remember the country celebrating the new millennium in 2000?

106300 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #364 of 1278 🔗

We didn’t lockdown for the millennium virus!!!

106390 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #365 of 1278 🔗

Back then, my brother drove a VW Beetle called the Millennium Bug.

106350 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Sikboy, 6, #366 of 1278 🔗

I’m sure you will agree with me when I say that one of the most important aspects of maths is a fundamental understanding of ‘Compound interest’. And believe me not many people know this or indeed understand it. Which is why the financial services industry booms at the expense of the individual. Saving over the long term and allowing your interest to build upon interest is what Einstein described as:

“the 8th wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it; he who doesn’t, pays it.”

106358 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #367 of 1278 🔗

Absolutely, the financial sector relies on this ignorance. The good news is that once understood, it can be turned into a great wealth building tool.

106377 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Sikboy, 2, #368 of 1278 🔗

Which is how I was able to make myself financially secure at a relatively young age

106442 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #369 of 1278 🔗

as explained in “The Restaurant at the end of the universe”. You put a small amount of money in an account – and once you time travel to get to Milliways that money has grown via compound interest to a huge amount to pay for your meal (and watching the universe explode)

106587 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to mjr, #370 of 1278 🔗

This is, of course, impossible.

106475 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Harry hopkins, #371 of 1278 🔗

I’ll let the financial services experts here debate whether an understanding of compound interest is more or less important than an understanding of risk. I saw some figures about what will have happened to some of the maturing Baby Bonds dished out, something like £250 per child. Equity investment won hands down, over that particular timescale.

106496 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, #372 of 1278 🔗

an understanding of compound interest is more or less important than an understanding of risk

Two sides of the same coin, in a sense.

106598 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #373 of 1278 🔗

Let’s play with that stash of gold sovereigns John B’s got under the floorboards.

106567 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Bruno, #374 of 1278 🔗

An understanding of compound interest is fundamental. An understanding of risk is at best a guess at any given time.

107282 ▶▶ rational actor, replying to Sikboy, #375 of 1278 🔗

Doctors are themselves not all that numerate, nor are they necessarily good at assessing risk as they are generally, in my experience, just repeating risk assessments that we have all heard already. But then that isn’t what they are supposed to be doing; they’re supposed to be diagnosing illnesses, not generating public policy. I doubt this will be very persuasive though.

When I meet a hard case I tend to drop facts & argument and ask them exactly where they think all this is going. What is the ultimate objective, and what do they want to happen next? OK, if that is done, what will the outcome be? Is this course of action realistic? etc. Again, I don’t know how persuasive this is, but my idea is to plant some cause-and-effect concepts in a mind that has never had two consecutive logical thoughts. It’s hard. A friend of mine recently tried this on someone who ended up shaking and nearly crying, insisting that the whole of the US should be locked down tight while complaining that his business was being destroyed. I don’t know how to help someone like this.

Actually I do, but it involves a slap.

106117 Sikboy, replying to Sikboy, 76, #376 of 1278 🔗

Meanwhile in my local Costa (somewhere in the North), basically Chesterfield.

I’ve just seen a chap walk in mask free, question every single dumb policy, notice there are no ‘available and safe’ tables… “this is crazy, why isn’t it back to normal?” Leaves in disgust.

A proper sceptic spotted in the wild!

106582 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Sikboy, 5, #377 of 1278 🔗

I’d have asked him for a date!

107062 ▶▶▶ Sikboy, replying to Thinkaboutit, 3, #378 of 1278 🔗

He was peak Chad Sceptic, great to see.

106789 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sikboy, 5, #379 of 1278 🔗

We must rope him in!

106134 Dr George Integrity Whitebread, 12, #380 of 1278 🔗

Apologies if these have already been posted – Spanish doctor destroys government media covid “crisis” narrative:


Also “NHS worker” Louise Hampton has a rant about covid bollocks:


Seems she works for a private call centre. Or did.

106137 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 29, #381 of 1278 🔗

Help!—where’s my hearing aid?

Last night Mrs Hopkins and I ventured into ‘The Wetherby Whaler’ at Guiseley—Leeds, which is the successor to the famous Harry Ramsden’s fish and chip restaurant. They advised booking—we didn’t. They would like you to pay by card—I insisted on cash. They asked for my surname and ‘phone number which I duly supplied as Hopkins, 07747075611 (you can try that number if you like and if you get a response let me know—I’d be curious to see who answers it!).

Not that many people in seeing as the half price offer was finished but we were seated quite close to two elderly couples who were tucking into their fish and chips as if Cod and haddock were about to become extinct. All of a sudden one of the elderly ladies began looking down at the floor, got up and then crouched down obviously looking for something on the carpet. I’m no spring chick myself but this lady must have been around eighty and was struggling to get down to carpet level. I turned on my pre Coroni, sod the social distance, knight in shining armour persona and asked if I could be of help—I thought she may have lost some money.

Turned out she was looking for her earring. “I doubt if it’s here but I’ve lost it due to having to wear a mask. Every time I take my mask off I catch my ears and I’ve lost two in the last week. I’ve just looked in my mask (takes mask from hand bag) but I must have lost it outside”. She then continued: “They’re not expensive earrings, but Jeff (sitting opposite and nodding sagely) has lost his hearing aid this week due to his mask. He took it off yesterday when we got out of a shop and he heard it ping and away it went into the street. That’s another seventy quid to replace it!”—Jeff nodding even more vigorously now!

At this point I thought I would gently tell them that there were all kinds of exemptions to mask wearing. “She laughed as she said “I don’t think you can get an exemption for losing earrings and hearing aids” and then proceeded to return to the main event—-tucking into her fish and chips.

A nice meal, a chance to be rebellious, and being made aware of even more reasons why masks are a ridiculous infringement on our civil liberties. If anyone out there finds a hearing aid in the vicinity of Guiseley, near Leeds, let me know, the Wetherby Whaler may be able to use their ‘track and trace’ system in a worthwhile way. I’m sure these decent, elderly folk I chatted to would have given their genuine details—not like someone I know who, when asked for personal info. tells them any old rubbish!

106268 ▶▶ davews, replying to Harry hopkins, 13, #382 of 1278 🔗

‘Unable to fit or remove a mask due to a disability’ – hearing aids are a disability so definitely covered. Having struggled outside Tesco one day trying to remove my mask which kept getting tangled in the hearing aids I decided enough was enough. Certainly a danger of dropping the aid – and once when it dropped out while doing the gardening they are jolly hard to find again. Just one of the exemptions I qualify for, I don’t even need to use the ‘fear and panic’ one.

106297 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to davews, 6, #383 of 1278 🔗

Exactly what is said to my dad, his hearing aid fell out.

Told him if putting on, wearing or taking off a mask causes distress you are exempt, my mum also has to raise her voice so he can hear her (TBF mostly selective hearing on his part 😉 ) so she is exempt as he relies on her to communicate.

107732 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to stefarm, #384 of 1278 🔗

My Dad wouldn’t even wear his hearing aids before all of this, ‘in case he lost them’. Both he and I have hearing problems & wear glasses, so adding a mask into the mix – even if I was minded to – is a complete non-starter. But we have both got other exemptions up our sleeve, just in case!

106320 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #385 of 1278 🔗

I don’t expect anyone ever to ring any number I might give, just to save time, within the 21 days after which the venue must destroy it. But I wouldn’t want anyone else to be inconvenienced if ‘they’ did. Luckily I have a selection of blocked numbers on my phone from people telling me they will take £39.95 from my non existent Amazon Prime account. Or something. For a bonus point, use one with an international dialling code. You’re welcome.

107195 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Bruno, #386 of 1278 🔗

Genius! I’ll be following your example the next time I’m asked for personal details as per the lunacy passing for COVID legislation.

106710 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #387 of 1278 🔗

My dad came out of the garage shop after paying for his petrol and quickly pulled his mask off because he was struggling to breathe and his hearing aid flew across to the pumps and smashed into several pieces !,the next day he asked to get him an exemption card.

106883 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #388 of 1278 🔗

I enjoy your storytelling style HH. Can’t believe Harry Ramsdens is no more?

106982 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to kf99, #389 of 1278 🔗

The original Harry Ramsdens sold out many years ago and went the way of the Franchise with the consequent lack in quality. The original premises at Guiseley are now occupied by Wetherby Whaler who are themselves a high quality fish and chip restaurant. So, apart from the name, not a lot has changed for us locals.
Thanks for your kind compliment by the way 🙂

107733 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Harry hopkins, #390 of 1278 🔗

There’s also one at Wakefield, although haven’t been since January.

106138 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 14, #391 of 1278 🔗

This may have been posted before, suggests 70% of PCR tests of asymptomatic patients could be false positives


If true, we have a testdemic, which doesn’t amount to a casedemic. which doesn’t get anywhere near an epidemic or a pandemic

106162 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cecil B, 3, #392 of 1278 🔗

Because we are being governed by demicks!

106140 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 24, #393 of 1278 🔗

Retail Report

Mrs Doubtings trip to Wilkinsons (Wilko)

Firstly she had to queue! Obviously too many people shopping. In the past the door guarding has been a member of store staff, today it was a dedicated guard, rather than a general member of store staff.

Door guarding mumbled something through his mask at Mrs Doubting, to which she replied “sorry I cannot understand you”, to which he mumbled again, again Mrs doubting said she did not understand, so the door guarding pointed at a sign, Mrs Doubting said “No” and walked in.

Oh for the return of the old fashioned walk in the door retail experience.

106197 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Dave #KBF, 12, #394 of 1278 🔗

Ha! Well done Mrs Doubting! I am bemused and amused by the fact the gorilla was too scared to take off his mask and preferred to resort to caveman communication.

106767 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #395 of 1278 🔗

I’ve not been in my local Wilkos for a while, but I’ve noticed there’s often a queue – seems they’re still being quite restrictive with the numbers they allow in.

107144 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edward, 2, #396 of 1278 🔗

There used to be a queue in my local Wilko’s but there’s not been one for ages now. Mr Bart went there to stock up on a few stuff before mandatory muzzling and has not been back since.

106787 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #397 of 1278 🔗

Wilko sell online. Why bother with their beastly stores?

107739 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to annie, #398 of 1278 🔗

They used to deliver to our rural part of Scotland, but after there were rumours about them struggling, they stopped delivering. They are now on my ‘don’t bother using list’.

106143 Mark, replying to Mark, 21, #399 of 1278 🔗

Anyone with a reasonable knowledge of statistics could have told Ministers and Officials that while a fancy algorithm would get the overall picture right, it was highly unlikely to be able to “assign” that distribution to individual candidates to produce a bottom-up set of results appropriate to each candidate. The fault lies squarely with the Ministers and Officials who, yet again, have demonstrated that they are essentially ignorant of any understanding of numerate disciplines . ”

Skewering the Prime Minister’s buffoonery is rather like spearing fat fish in a very tight barrel, but the real truth is that the blame should be put where it belongs – on the panic reaction that closed the schools and cancelled exams. From that, the rest follows.

The problem isn’t inadequate implementation of the attempt to invent a system to artificially predict children’s grades. The whole effort was fundamentally misguided, and impossible. That fact should have been recognised and given proper prominence when the decision to over-react was taken.

Promoting the idea that it is somehow theoretically possible to achieve this merely understates the costs of panic reactions such as this. The costs of closing schools and cancelling exams cannot be somehow recouped. Those children will never regain the lost months of education, and will never have credible exam results, no matter how much we pretend to take seriously the ones they are awarded. Some will have gained and others will have lost, and that’s it. The rest is just shuffling the results around to try to minimise complaints.

106167 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 5, #400 of 1278 🔗

It was a monumental mistake to cancel the exams. My son is in the A Level cohort. His ‘results’ – A*A*A – are entirely justified by his performance in Mocks, which were full exam board papers conducted under exam conditions. However, as the school put in excessively optimistic centre assessed grades, he was assigned A*AA from the algorithm. We went down the road of challenging the rank order in one of the subjects. We now have the rank orders for all three subjects. Two are totally inexplicable. We are pursuing the school, because we suspect universities are going to start asking for rank orders and Mock results, due to ‘prizes for all’ this year. He was planning a gap year in any event, so had not applied to university for 2020 start.

106190 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mark, 8, #401 of 1278 🔗

“Skewering the Prime Minister’s buffoonery is rather like spearing fat fish in a very tight barrel…”

Brilliant. However, I’m sure de Piffle and his Gang of Mediocrity would have trouble succeeding at even that (they wouldn’t be able to find the pointy end of the spears for a start).

106171 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 20, #402 of 1278 🔗

Brief but interesting chat with a young man in marketing from Chelsea.
I was commiserating with him for being cooped up during a fantastic spring.

He said quite flatly “there was no Lockdown in London, it was just ignored.”
I lived in London until my thirties so this did not surprise me.
If Chesea counts as part of the metropolitan bubble where the politicians, media types and luvvies live then it’s no surprise that they kept this dirty little secret to themselves.

What does surprise me is that I have seen no mention of it here @LS, Any Londoners care to refute or confirm ?

106182 ▶▶ Julian, replying to karenovirus, 14, #403 of 1278 🔗

I know a few Londoners but not in those circles. But it’s fairly predictable that the rich and powerful will ignore stupid rules made up for the plebs. I’m sure the people who got caught are the tipof the iceberg.

106229 ▶▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Julian, 8, #404 of 1278 🔗

For sure. I know some of my neighbours would disappear for days (to other parts of the country?) when we were supposed to stay home. Plenty of households getting together for kids to play outdoors. Just to add, we are middle-aged renters who managed to luck into a flat in what was at the time the shabby house on the block (looked like a squat…since painted) when the rental market was slow, and clung on. No car, and certainly no country house for us. But the people across the road have live-in staff. They came and went during lockdown. I’m less bothered than that than by the fact that so many other people seemed to just suck it up.

107277 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Julian, #405 of 1278 🔗

In NYC Governor Cuomo has made it less of a secret – the hoi polloi apparently have to surrender to his covid checkpoints & who the hell knows what else… but if you’re a rock star you’re exempt. 🙂

106194 ▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to karenovirus, 6, #406 of 1278 🔗

Well, most businesses closed because they had to. As far as only leaving the house for a limited time to exercise and shop… certainly ignored around by many in my neck of the woods. Also, no police breaking up the increasingly large gatherings (esp. posh teens) that were taking place. We live in a fairly afffluent middle class bit (although that describes most of London now, so…) I got the impression from friends outside London they were more compliant. It’s almost worse now things have opened because of all the mindless healthy and safety signage and rules.

106222 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Norma McNormalface, 4, #407 of 1278 🔗

You need to get out more if you think most of London is fairly affluent middle class

106246 ▶▶▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #408 of 1278 🔗

Just meant lots of people priced out of areas that used to be more affordable. Poorly worded on my part.

106272 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Norma McNormalface, 5, #409 of 1278 🔗

You are right,there are no affordable parts of London anymore unless you can get a council place.

107145 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Norma McNormalface, #410 of 1278 🔗

And “affordable” means either dodgy suburban area or bad transport links or both.

106528 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 5, #411 of 1278 🔗

I live in NW London – in a relatively bad area and I can guarantee you that many people here simply ignored the lockdown and antisocial distancing rules.

What’s been dispiriting is the increase in drug use and domestics – lost count of how many households I’ve heard squabbling and shouting.

That said its a very sheepie area due to the fairly high muzzle compliance.

106183 David Mc, replying to David Mc, 27, #413 of 1278 🔗

We are right. Very, very, very slowly the rest of the world is coming around to our point of view. This will take a long time, because it will involve people having to admit to themselves that they were hoodwinked and easily panicked. But it is a one-way process. Take heart in that.

106200 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to David Mc, 15, #414 of 1278 🔗

Unfortunately when all is said and done I won’t take any pride or joy from being right. It will just make me sad.

106205 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Achilles, 9, #415 of 1278 🔗

I will, every waking moment I’m going to rub their noses in it

106777 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 3, #416 of 1278 🔗

Likewise. When all the stupid, credulous, selfish, timid, cowardly, hypocritical little face-nappied zombies start saying that they were with us all along.
And the bBeeb start fearless investigations to reveal What Went Wrong and Why It Wasn’t Our Fault.

106277 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Achilles, 6, #417 of 1278 🔗

Everybody will have been right in a while just as they were all in the Resistance and all at Woodstock.

106285 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #418 of 1278 🔗

And they knew Tony Blair was a wrong un

106366 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #419 of 1278 🔗

Didn’t stop nearly 10 million voting for his party in 2005 – long after there was no longer any plausible case that they were not voting for a war criminal responsible for mass murder as Prime Minister. So much for Labour voters.

Though in fairness over 11 million voted for Cameron’s party in 2015 despite his war crime in Libya, that was also a murderous, criminal blunder albeit on a somewhat less colossal scale as Iraq. So much for “Conservative” voters (but they tend to be less sanctimonious about their supposed peacenik credentials than Labourites, fwiw)..

106446 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #420 of 1278 🔗

My daughter (aged 16) spotted him straight away (“he’s creepy”), almost my proudest moment.

106521 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #421 of 1278 🔗

She’s so right. It’s his maniacal belief he’s in the right and utterly convinced of it

As someone said on an earlier page: a mind with no room for doubt is a small mind. I love that! In TB’s case, it’s a creepy mind too.

107744 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #422 of 1278 🔗

That is exactly my reason for not having voted for him – he is just wrong!

106362 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Achilles, 4, #423 of 1278 🔗

It is the economic, social, health consequences, combined with the move towards socialism and totalitarianism that make me so sad. The inevitable and universal fate of all Cassandras: “I told you so” is very poor compensation!

106780 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to IanE, #424 of 1278 🔗

I disagree. ‘I told you so’ is immensely satisfying.

106349 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to David Mc, 6, #425 of 1278 🔗

Yeah but the mind blowing part is that they will only come round because politicians and their messenger, the BBC, are now carrying the message that children are safe – so they ‘can’ believe it. Still being manipulated by the messages.

106184 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 24, #426 of 1278 🔗

Numbers don’t lie ! 🙈

Stats from NHS England.

Covid-19 deaths in English Hospitals between 29th July to 26th August:

People aged 0-59 with no underlying health issues = 1

People aged 0-59 with underlying health issues = 20

Been collecting the data for weeks now and even I can’t believe it !!!

106196 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to NonCompliant, 18, #427 of 1278 🔗

Surely if they really did want to get everything moving again our ministers would be broadcasting this non-stop on every media channel, along with some serious context about other causes of mortality. But they don’t want that, do they?

106203 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #428 of 1278 🔗

Clearly not. There is plenty of good news, but they certainly aren’t trumpeting it.

106279 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #429 of 1278 🔗

Because it goes against their Agenda. This really isn’t to do with the virus it’s about Control. They are even withholding medical treatment in order to impose their Will on us!

106219 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Charlie Blue, 7, #430 of 1278 🔗
106201 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to NonCompliant, 6, #431 of 1278 🔗

Their only priorities are to divert the narrative away from the slaughter in the care homes, and get past the summer rioting season before the proles wake up

( Misnomer of the year = Care homes. There was precious little care, and they were not a home in any known sense of the word)

106198 Biker, replying to Biker, 22, #432 of 1278 🔗

I used to think that the mask wearers were stupid or perhaps crazy but thinking on it i now think they are full of shit. Each and everyone of us (almost) present to the world some version of a personality and the main concern of this is that others think us smart, interesting, worth knowing and dependable. Humans are in the main none of these things. We can however pretend and that’s why most of us are full of shit. I’m agnostic on everything so the people full of shit really bug me with their certainty and their dogma and their demands i believe/follow/do whatever their full of shit mind tells me.
They never just stop to think for a minute.

106290 ▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to Biker, 2, #433 of 1278 🔗
106210 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 10, #434 of 1278 🔗

Gilead’s covid drug remdesivir shortens hospital stay 4 days going cheap at $3,120 per patient. According to the CEO it is worth $48,000 per patient.


Early use of HCQ can stop infection in its tracks for pennies. Write your MPs and demand that HCQ is made readily available. Also tell them to end the lockdown immediately.

106368 ▶▶ IanE, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #435 of 1278 🔗

Just don’t expect anything other than, at best, a form letter telling you that the government has always made the best possible responses in a truly world-beating manner!

106216 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 17, #436 of 1278 🔗

Just been to Sainsbury’s in keighley. So depressing, I was one of only three bare faced. Some say the tide is turning, I just can’t see it.

106309 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Moomin, 10, #437 of 1278 🔗

Agreed, I can’t see it either. Just back from a small Tesco, I was the only one without a muzzle out of 30ish. Staff working on the shop floor were all muzzled.
4 of us on the bus, other 3 muzzled one of whom I know very well – he said this was only his second trip out. I replied you’ll be fine, don’t worry, the virus has mutated just like any other flu. Bloke behind us lowered his mask to say, no you’re wrong etc etc. I asked him where he got his information from and he replied The Daily Mail and Sky and ITV.
And proceeded to lecture us, maskless. I usually say, well you remember the flu epidemic in 2017/18…. but there’s no telling some people.

106466 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to bluemoon, 1, #438 of 1278 🔗

Never argue with stupid people, they will always beat you down to their level.. was this Mark Twain?

106622 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to David Grimbleby, #439 of 1278 🔗

… drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

106443 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Moomin, 2, #440 of 1278 🔗

Try ‘click and collect’, free for £40, very civilized at my local.

106775 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #441 of 1278 🔗

It’s a godsend.

106973 ▶▶ Simon, replying to Moomin, 3, #442 of 1278 🔗

Don’t forget, many of us are avoiding it completely. Wasn’t there a news report of 2 million less supermarket visits post muzzling?

Looking at petrol stations many people don’t bother.

106223 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 8, #443 of 1278 🔗

So called “anti-maskers” are accused of being “selfish” and “putting money/the economy above lives”.

However, there are powerful arguments with strong evidence which contend that covid 19 is being used as a trojan horse for precisely economic reasons- to re-engineer and reset the global economy so that economic (together with political and even social) control of the world’s nations is wrested from national governments and delivered into the hands of a global technocratic “elite”.

The costs in lives and livelihoods (of non-billionaires) in this grand exercise is irrelevant.

When we are bewildered by our our government’s increasingly anti-human policies which are robbing us of what is essential in life, the fundamental question to ask is are they doing this because they are monstrously incompetent/cowardly…or because they are faithfully following the plan of the parties they represent in reality (i.e. not their voters)?

Below are the opening paragraphs of Iain Davis’ article ‘The COVID19 Scamdemic – Part 1’ in the Off Guardian ( https://off-guardian.org/2020/08/28/the-covid19-scamdemic-part-1/ ). It is worth reading in full.

Among many similar globalist states, The UK State is a public-private partnership between government, financial institutions, multinational corporations, global think tanks, and well funded third sector organisations, such as so called non governmental organisations (NGO’s) and large international charities.

Through a labyrinthine structure of direct funding, grant making and philanthropy, the UK State is a cohesive globalist organisation that works with selected academics, scientific institutions and mainstream media (MSM) outlets to advance a tightly controlled, predetermined narrative. This designed consensus serves the the interests and global ambitions of a tiny group of disproportionately wealthy people.

This group of parasites, often misleadingly referred to as the “elite,” exploit all humanity for their own gain and to consolidate and enhance their power. They control the money supply and the global debt, which is a debt owed to them.

Human beings are forced to pay tax which, via government procurement, flows directly to the private corporations they own. War, security, infrastructure projects, education and health care provide profits and are used by the parasite class to socially engineer society.

Globally, they fund all political parties, with any realistic chance of gaining power, they own the MSM and spend billions lobbying policy makers.

Through think tanks and the actions of “independent” political activists, such as the FPAction Network, they directly fund political campaigns in exchange for the politician’s loyalty to them, not to the electorate.

Through their tax exempt grant making foundations, such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF), they control the scientific, medical and academic orthodoxy.

This global network of oligarchs is moving towards the final stages of its long held plan to construct a single global system of governance.

106274 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Humanity First, 6, #444 of 1278 🔗

The Coronanists were wetting themselves only months ago about 120,000 dead from ‘austerity’ and hanging effigies from bridges at Conservative conferences. Does not compute.

106370 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Humanity First, #445 of 1278 🔗

Exactly. Yours sincerely, the Queen of Sheba.

106232 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 7, #446 of 1278 🔗

I’ve been searching for studies that relate to social distancing, as this is really the core measure that is creating so much devastation. It’s pretty alarming that there really has been virtually no “science” to follow. CEBM, as expected had looked into this early on..


I found this breakdown of the studies from June, pretty damning. Sorry if this has been shared before, but worth a read if you haven’t already..


107165 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #447 of 1278 🔗

Zoe Harcombe is awesome!

106233 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 14, #448 of 1278 🔗

I’m a couple of days late on this but Allison Pearson’t article referenced by Toby on 26 August was brilliant & the comments heartbreaking. Allison replied in the comments, saying The Telegraph was ‘on it’ and I do wonder if they are about to fully turn. As they have seemed the most sceptical I decided to subscribe for the duration (!) of the coronabollocks and I see that they have a summer offer on- ending end of August I think. £1 a week for 6 months. I know a fair few articles Toby references are behind a paywall at the Telegraph & I imagine its the newspaper of most Tory MP’s- so those that subscribe could pile on in the comments . It’s free for a month or £1 a week for 6 months


106396 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Marie R, 3, #449 of 1278 🔗

I would love to think that the Barclay Brothers, who own it and The Spectator, are sceptics who’d be willing to throw their money behind a massive campaign to educate people with the truth.

106438 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Julian, 6, #450 of 1278 🔗

what’s the betting six months down the line and the nonsense has gone you’ll find everyone says they were a sceptic all along

106535 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to crimsonpirate, 3, #451 of 1278 🔗

That won’t surprise me. Much like loads of French and Dutch people saying they were in the Resistance during WW2 when they were actually passive collaborators

106859 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #452 of 1278 🔗

Yep, you’re right. Sad isn’t it.

106241 Biker, replying to Biker, 9, #453 of 1278 🔗

I tripped so deep that once i met Jesus outside a chip shop, he was just standing there and said “alright biker hows it going”. Thanks to the mushrooms i never thought how the hell does Jesus know me and what is he doing outside the chippy. Anyway i said “ i’ve started noticing how the grass is blue and he just laughed and said “oh you see it too, i thought it was just me”. I turned round to see my friend, also tripping his bollocks off, leaving the chippy with a packet of Embassy No.1 cigarettes and he said “do you know you were talking to yourself?” i replied somewhat unsure and said “possibly, i’m none too sure?” I turned back and right enough no one was there and i thought, that was odd. The grass remained blue for a further couple of hours after that.

106249 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Biker, #454 of 1278 🔗

106253 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Biker, 3, #455 of 1278 🔗

Perhaps we’re all on a trip together!

106281 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to DocRC, 2, #456 of 1278 🔗

We are all on board together, it’s some of us insist on being Captain missing the point of the whole trip altogether

106269 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Biker, 3, #457 of 1278 🔗

I’ve met two people absolutely 100% certain that they met Jesus and that he saved their lives – both fiercely God-fearing people. You could not even begin to convince them they hadn’t met him (no drugs involved in either case, but both encounters were under severe duress).

It’s recorded in the Old Testament that Moses doused himself in cannabis oil before communing with God in the Tabernacle.

So maybe you did meet him…

106278 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #458 of 1278 🔗

ask them if the grass is blue and if it is then maybe they did

106291 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Biker, #459 of 1278 🔗

They’re both dead now. So we will never know.

106314 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mr Dee, #460 of 1278 🔗


106398 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Biker, #461 of 1278 🔗

Is that you J Broon?

106247 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 16, #462 of 1278 🔗

Here is the letter I wrote to my MP a coupe of weeks ago and in the next post is her reply which is an evidence-free zone!. She is a junior minister so sticking to the party line!


I am writing to you to ask if you are aware of the latest data from the UK and indeed other European countries showing that although there are spikes in Covid-19 the numbers of ITU admissions and deaths have remained low and indeed are still decreasing? This is also true for the areas England which are still in partial lockdown. For example, Leicester went into local lockdown at the end of June. The Leicester Mercury (the local newspaper) reported on 13th August that no one had died of Covid in any of the Leicester hospitals for over 2 weeks despite the infection rates remaining several times higher than the national average.

What is the reason for this? It seems that the Covid-19 epidemic has behaved like all viral epidemics in history and spread widely in the population. Those who were susceptible mostly had a mild illness but sadly many elderly people, particularly those with co-morbidities, died (as they do each year of influenza or other respiratory viruses). There is very good evidence from the data that we have reached population immunity and that the spike in infections is a function of hugely increased testing. I know that antibody testing has been claimed to show only low levels of immunity but it’s clear that there are other immune mechanisms involved, T-lymphocytes for example. Studies have found that up to 60% of the population have T-cells, presumable developed in response to previous coronavirus infections (remember a third of common colds are caused by coronaviruses), which react against Covid. 72% of the passengers and crew on The Diamond Princess cruise ship had no symptoms of the disease despite being exposed to the infection; this gives another indication of the fact that many individuals are not susceptible due to pre-existing (innate) immunity. It is also likely that the Covid-19 virus has become attenuated (less virulent). We then have the problem of the PCR test, whose inventor said was never intended or suitable as a diagnostic tool, with unknown percentages of false positives (it picks up people with viral debris, not active infection) and false negatives.

All this is, or should be, good news. I don’t therefore understand why the message put out by the Government is not more positive. We have introduced measures at the tail end of the epidemic which might have made sense at the beginning; in March flights from Wuhan and Northern Italy continued into UK airports with no checks or quarantine for passengers but now we have the absurd 14 day quarantine for people returning from Spain and France (where I repeat there may be “spikes” in cases but as in the UK there has been no uptick in hospital, ITU admissions or deaths). We have local lockdowns in Leicester and parts of the North-West of England but there is not a shred of evidence that lockdowns do anything other than shift infections or deaths into the future (flatten the curve). Face coverings have been made mandatory first on public transport and then in shops but there is absolutely no evidence for their efficacy in non-healthcare settings. See this short (only 2 mins 30 secs) video by Professor Carl Heneghan of the Oxford University Centre for Evidence Based Medicine.

If the UK economy is to recover and we are not to have 3 or 4 million unemployed when the furlough scheme ends in October, The Government need to change the message which has scared the general population half to death. People need to be reassured that the epidemic is over and that we can return to normal. Children must return to school in September and the teaching unions faced down. If some people want to continue wearing face coverings voluntarily then of course they can but the compulsion should be removed -if the intention was to encourage people to return to the high street then it has failed as the shops are deserted and businesses are failing. Central London is a ghost town.The elderly and vulnerable should be informed of their personalised risk and could choose to self-isolate or not. Life is for living, for meeting friends and family, for Grandparents to hug their grandchildren, for socialising in pubs and restaurants. Since when have we needed Ministers to make these sort of decisions for us?

 I hope you will consider the points I have made and encourage your ministerial colleagues to stop the fear-mongering and get the country back to work and school and play!

Kind regards,

106251 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to DocRC, 3, #463 of 1278 🔗

Here is the MP’s reply.

Dear Dr

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the progress we have made as a nation in the continued fight against coronavirus.

I appreciate the points you have made but, respectfully, disagree with the conclusions you have then reached. You are right to say that as our testing capacity has increased 100-fold, we of course know much more about the virus now than we did at its outset. But declining mortality rates, while obviously welcome, do not suggest to me that the threat of this virus can now be ignored; recovery times have been shortened and mortality rates reduced because we now know that new treatments, like dexamethasone and remdesivir, work.

That is why it is vitally important that we continue to collectively adhere to the government guidance which, needless to say, continues to be underpinned by the latest scientific advice from SAGE. The supporting documents used in their analysis are available online, alongside the minutes of their meetings. And it continues to be the case that local lockdowns may be appropriate where the rate of infection in a particular area is an anomaly when compared against the national picture. This sort of intervention works: measures taken in Leicester and Luton are testament to that, not evidence to the contrary.

On the efficacy or otherwise of face coverings in non-medical settings, I would again respectfully disagree with your assertion that there is no evidence in support of their mandatory use. I know SAGE discussed this very issue and considered the risk posed by the prolonged contagiousness of asymptomatic, COVID-positive individuals where the risk of transmission is exceptionally high whilst they are actively engaging with others. Non-medical cloth face coverings are therefore a vital source of protection from coughing or sneezing as they reduce the range of small droplets which I understand would normally be 7-8 metres. For this, and indeed many other reasons, the prevailing consensus has moved in favour of the universal use of face coverings, which is why the government’s guidance shifted accordingly.

I know this will not be the response for which you hoped.

Thank you for contacting me on this important issue.

Kind regards

106263 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to DocRC, 11, #464 of 1278 🔗

‘asymptomatic, COVID-positive individuals where the risk of transmission is exceptionally high whilst they are actively engaging with others. Non-medical cloth face coverings are therefore a vital source of protection from coughing or sneezing’

‘asymptomatic … coughing or sneezing’?

‘exceptionally high’ is a straightforward lie too.

106267 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to DocRC, 2, #465 of 1278 🔗

Doxxed yourself there Doc, but great work, congratulation, thanks.

106293 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to DocRC, 4, #466 of 1278 🔗

Interesting that she says that it is your assertion that there is no evidence in support of mandatory use of masks. There is: it’s called the Null Hypothesis – i.e. the default position. It is up to those (consensus or otherwise) to show significant effect.

Nassim Taleb even fell for this when he posited that when people say there is no evidence that masks work it is a case of absense of evidence not being the same as no evidence. I get that. But the logic is actually:

No evidence that masks work
No evidence that masks don’t work (Taleb’s point about risk)
No evidence that masks cause harm (systematic risk)
No evidence that masks do not cause harm (again systematic risk)

The conclusion is WE DON’T KNOW – hence doing nothing but what we already do is the default condition.

She needs a course in logic and to stop adhering to the Precautionary Principle (which only applies when you have some sort of known risk)

Also, masks do not work (in the current way ) in preventing the spread of viruses as the rate of flu deaths has not changed. What has changed is the total number of flu attributions that seems to have reduced as Covid attributions went up

106310 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 6, #467 of 1278 🔗

You are absolutely right.

… apart from the statement :

“No evidence that masks cause harm”

… which depends on one’s assessment of harm. Anyone who has worn a mask can testify to the physical and psychological discomfort (at the very least). It is observable even at this very low level.

Since there is no overall sustainable evidence of any benefit, the simple basis of risk assessment (and medical ethics) shows that harm outweighs benefit.

106361 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to RickH, #468 of 1278 🔗

That statement was just demonstrating the logical options as the same thing is said about masks working. The main point was that you can’t cherry pick the “no evidence that masks do not work so we need to take action” option because equally you can say that no evidence that masks do not cause harm means don’t risk it.

106439 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to mhcp, #469 of 1278 🔗

Taleb is a fat-tailed fraud probably talking his own book who doesn’t understand that flaneur is not the same as bullshitter.

106305 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to DocRC, 2, #470 of 1278 🔗

At least you got an answer.

107183 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #471 of 1278 🔗

And she did personally address DocRC’s letter, even if the second half is boilerplate cut and pasted.

106316 ▶▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to DocRC, 4, #472 of 1278 🔗

Even if you put to one side the outright falsehoods and clear lack of scientific understanding, it’s the naked propaganda & hyperbole in the choice of language that really annoys me.

prolonged contagiousness of asymptomatic, COVID-positive individuals where the risk of transmission is exceptionally high

There is precious little evidence of regular transmission by asymptomatic individuals and yet it is “prolonged” and “exceptionally high”

Non-medical cloth face coverings are therefore a vital source of protection

Even the saintly WHO in their guidance say that quality evidence to support the use of masks does not exist and yet they are ‘vital’.

This is so absolutely characteristic of the reason the Gov has got itself in such a mess

106321 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DocRC, 4, #473 of 1278 🔗

Well – look on the bright side. At least you’ve extracted proof with your evidenced letter that the government really hasn’t any real clue as to whether it’s shit, shave or breakfast time in the world of this virus.

107086 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to DocRC, #474 of 1278 🔗

In other words the minister is advocating perpetual fear, at least until a modestly effective vaccine is available to let them off the hook.

107172 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DocRC, 1, #475 of 1278 🔗

Your letter – brilliant.
The response – bollox.

107316 ▶▶▶ rational actor, replying to DocRC, 1, #476 of 1278 🔗

But declining mortality rates, while obviously welcome, do not suggest to me that the threat of this virus can now be ignored; recovery times have been shortened and mortality rates reduced because we now know that new treatments, like dexamethasone and remdesivir, work.

That is why it is vitally important that we continue to collectively adhere to the government guidance which, needless to say, continues to be underpinned by the latest scientific advice from SAGE.

Recovery times have improved and mortality rates reduced thanks to new treatments so it is imperative that we … keep doing exactly the same thing, even though that hasn’t affected these outcomes at all.

I keep coming back to this: where are we going, and how will we know when we get there?

106257 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to DocRC, 2, #477 of 1278 🔗

An excellent letter. Fantastically reasonable and measured.

106280 ▶▶ Mark, replying to DocRC, 3, #478 of 1278 🔗

She is a junior minister so sticking to the party line!

Inevitably, but I don’t believe that kind of letter can fail to have some impact on her thinking, regardless of what she admits openly, even if it’s only a matter of making her feel nervous about the party line.

Good job!

106254 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 26, #479 of 1278 🔗

The government needs to take the lead on dialling down the panic, not stoking it up.

The government as a matter of policy deliberately sought to make the population fearful. This was the scientific advice (from SAGE behavioural experts) it has followed. Scientific advice that has killed people and is killing people. The government needs to be held accountable for the unnecessary harm it has inflicted.

106266 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #480 of 1278 🔗

All governments do. They are still proactively pursuing policies that are resulting in both maximum deaths and maximum economic costs.

It’s ok tho, their pals at big pharma are making off with a pretty penny and all the uni researchers are swimming in funding (also known as bribes) from said big pharma

106255 Gerry Mandarin, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 10, #481 of 1278 🔗

If 2/5 excess deaths are officially non-covid, then when the figures are adjusted for honesty the real figure will be somewhere in the region of 4/5 excess deaths were from a non-covid cause.

Spaffer has not just tanked the economy, he has caused the maximum excess deaths possible.

106259 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 2, #482 of 1278 🔗

You are Enid and I claim my £5. (‘Spaffer’ is the clue)

106265 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 26, #483 of 1278 🔗

Its was entirely predictable that lockdown would cause death and widespread suffering even before its long term effects of a destroyed economy and fundamentally changed relationship between people and the state start to kick in.

I still struggle to understand what happened earlier this year – how did the concept of ‘lockdown’ ever become even remotely acceptable. There is no recovering from what this government and its advisers have done to us.

106292 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Saved To Death, 14, #484 of 1278 🔗

There were ‘old hand’ epidemiologists, recently retired from top positions within their respected countries that said in February that this would be a slightly worse than average ‘Flu’ season at most.

I will not accept any hindsight arguments.

106766 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Saved To Death, #485 of 1278 🔗

No recovering for them.

106324 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 6, #486 of 1278 🔗

We are in this mess because of a feedback loop whereby all the actions taken to mitigate the death toll actually made it worse. As the death toll rose they took more actions that made the death toll rise more so they took more action which led to more deaths.

Now they’re being ultra cautious because they fear things could get as bad as before, and still believe that the spread will be exponential.

They’re acting like a driver who’s been in a bad car crash and is now scared to get behind the wheel.

106631 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #487 of 1278 🔗

When you have half a million bodies as your wiggle for policy, anything looks like it would be a good idea.

Unfortunately nobody re ran the Macro since March and they were stuck looking at the same chart

106288 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 5, #488 of 1278 🔗

Jesus, this in ‘The Conversation’. Nobody is dying anymore but,but,but……..they haven’t learnt ANYTHING!

“Coronavirus case numbers have been rising throughout the summer in many European countries, while the UK has brought in targeted local lockdowns to prevent spikes in the virus from getting out of control. Though death rates have yet to catch up to positive test results, and hospitals are not overwhelmed as they were in the dark days of April and May, this new spate of infections is still cause for concern, epidemiologists and pandemic modellers say”.

106327 ▶▶ Mark, replying to T. Prince, 3, #489 of 1278 🔗

hospitals are not overwhelmed as they were in the dark days of April and May

No list of the hospitals that were “overwhelmed”, then?

106339 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mark, #490 of 1278 🔗

Which hospitals were they? None in North Wales.

106351 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Mark, 1, #491 of 1278 🔗

anecdotally there was one hospital- Northwick Park in Harrow-any others?

107190 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, #492 of 1278 🔗


106298 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #493 of 1278 🔗

The latest news of an outbreak at a Norfolk Poultry Unit
Should give the authorities some clues as to the nature of how this virus likes to operate, hospitals, care homes, food processing plants, come on witless Whitty does this not tell you something?
Surely we should be focussing any official action on these sites known to be vulnerable and drop all the other nonsense.
Mind you having said that I wonder how many people at the poultry unit were actually ill or just had a +ve test result.
All the bally-hoo recently about a Hong-Kong person who caught Covid fora second time turned out to be nonsense, yes they tested +ve some months after they first had the virus but their immunity system kicked in knocked the virus on the head with no sign of the illness, I thought that was what immunity was supposed to do? so really a non story.

106312 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #494 of 1278 🔗

Bring on the food shortages! MW

106331 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #495 of 1278 🔗

Everyone needs to stock up for Winter. Cans – not frozen food (if the electricity goes, it’s all gone to waste). Peas are good (They’ll vibe up the place like no other veg could).


106354 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #496 of 1278 🔗

…and the civil unrest

107192 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #497 of 1278 🔗

Be careful what you wish for!

106318 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #498 of 1278 🔗

I wonder how many people at the poultry unit were actually ill or just had a +ve test result.”

A key question. The definition of ‘Covid’ seems to have departed the station of reality a long time ago.

The video on Bayes’s theorem (cited above) gives a good breakdown of why the PCR teat is not fit for purpose :

What does a positive Covid test tell you about the probability you have the virus?

… but it’s the Norwegians, not the Spivs, who have abandoned it because it’s pointless in current circumstances.

106432 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #499 of 1278 🔗

I’m not sure I want to know what hospitals and food processing plants have in common.

106302 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 24, #500 of 1278 🔗

Apologies if already posted:

Toronto Children’s Hospital Recommends Back to School without Masks or Social Distancing. Detailed Report
“Non-medical and medical face masks are not required or recommended for children returning to school… if worn incorrectly, it could lead to increased risk of infection and it is not practical for a child to wear a mask properly for the duration of a school day.”

“…strict physical distancing should not be emphasized to children in the school setting as it is not practical and could cause significant psychological harm. Close interaction, such as playing and socializing, is central to child development and should not be discouraged.”

(Source: https://www.globalresearch.ca/back-school-without-masks-social-distancing-advises-sickkids-hospital/5719018 )

106308 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Humanity First, 5, #501 of 1278 🔗

That’s very good news!

106762 ▶▶ annie, replying to Humanity First, #502 of 1278 🔗

Sanity in Canada?

106304 JYC, replying to JYC, 22, #503 of 1278 🔗

Best wishes from the Caledonian gulag to all who are going on the Trafalgar Square demonstration tomorrow. Stand tall. Your country needs you.

106363 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to JYC, 2, #504 of 1278 🔗

London will be busy in the next couple of days: Trafalgar square tomorrow-Extinction rebellion on Tuesday-counter demo by Piers Corbyn!

106411 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to crimsonpirate, 4, #505 of 1278 🔗

£10,000 fine for the organisers, which doubles exponentially to £3200 if you don’t wear a mask but only if the march is in a corridor, except if you are sitting down.

106429 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #506 of 1278 🔗

the police say this is unenforceable- imagine turning up and asking “Excuse me,who’s organising this?”

106539 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #507 of 1278 🔗

I’m Spartacus!

106542 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #508 of 1278 🔗

Oh, I wish I could make it…

106427 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to JYC, 2, #509 of 1278 🔗

Will do!

106315 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 13, #510 of 1278 🔗


 “Italian public health report: the average age of “positives” is now 29 years in Italy. But only 27% of them have symptoms. The R number in Italy is only computed on people with symptoms and is 0.75
Italians getting smart

106376 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to swedenborg, #511 of 1278 🔗

Many of those symptoms probably down to other viruses doing the rounds

106428 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #512 of 1278 🔗

Or hangovers as TY has pointed out.

106444 ▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to Charlie Blue, #513 of 1278 🔗

Those who don’t have symptoms now, will have them in the winter when they get a cold or the flu. It’s called “long COVID”.

106997 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Charlie Blue, #514 of 1278 🔗

If you have symptoms and test positive 90%+ likely you do have Covid. If no symptoms and positive test it’s more like 6.5%.

106509 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 2, #515 of 1278 🔗

“ Italian public health report: the average age of “positives” is now 29 years in Italy”

The average age in Italy is apparently 45.8. Why is the average age of a positive test result different from the population average?

Testing priorities? Different behaviour/levels of self isolation? Different susceptibility to the disease?

106760 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 1, #516 of 1278 🔗

More young ones getting tested.

107001 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, #517 of 1278 🔗

Good question. I wonder if they report the average age of the people getting tested.

106317 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 4, #518 of 1278 🔗

One thing puzzled me. Listened to a news report on Radio 4 last night and they mentioned the positive cases had risen to c 1500. They interviewed Carl Heneghan and he reckoned the positive tests now have lower viral load. I thought the increasing cases but lower hospitalisation was down to younger people testing positive but having stronger immune systems.

106325 ▶▶ RickH, replying to crimsonpirate, 6, #519 of 1278 🔗

I think Heneghan is exercising due academic discretion in avoiding the obvious statement that PCR tests are a total waste of time and space.

106330 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to RickH, 7, #520 of 1278 🔗

Yep he’s dancing on the edge of a precipice by trying to fundamentally change the narrative without causing people to just react against him and shut him down.

106353 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 5, #521 of 1278 🔗

I think that’s right. He is, in fact, exercising the sort of professionalism that escapes the SAGE-type ‘academics’ who like to parade in the limelight with horror stories.

106392 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 7, #522 of 1278 🔗

He’s a war hero

106336 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to RickH, 5, #523 of 1278 🔗

at the very least I’m glad the BBC are not ignoring him

106319 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 16, #524 of 1278 🔗

We must be positive, and look to the future

Obviously, there will be trials and reparations

For some their will be no need for a trial we can go straight to reparations

The entire assets of the following should be seized and distributed amongst the resistance fighters (If your reading this that means you)

1 The dictator
2 Handy cock
4 All employees of PHE
5 Any one who has ever invited a PHE employee to dinner
6 The BBC
7 All employees of the BBC (they are too boring to invite to dinner)
8 Neil Ferguson
9 Imperial College
10 That German bird that 8 was shagging
11 Piers Morgan
12 Piers Morgan cat, dog, and any pet he acquired after March 2020
13 Me gun an arry ( I know they were in Canada, but that’s no defence)
14 Chris Witless et al
15 Anyone who ever took part in one of those 5pm briefings
16 Dawn the Butler
17 Greater Manchester Police’s child party unit
18 The companies who made covid TV adverts
19 Mrs Dick and anyone who used the word ‘shame’ post March
20 Companies who produce PCR tests
21 MP’s and all members of the Scottish and Welsh governments
22 The Baron Hardup

You may add to the list if you wish

106326 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Cecil B, 11, #525 of 1278 🔗

Don’t forgot Derbyshire police. The ones who sent drones after dog walkers. Remember that? Seems a lifetime ago.

106335 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Achilles, 1, #526 of 1278 🔗

Ok, good call, they’ve been added

106386 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Achilles, 5, #527 of 1278 🔗

Yes, and Devon and Cornwall Police for setting up roadblocks down here.

To be fair though, they seem determined not to have anything to do with muzzle enforcement.

106389 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 2, #528 of 1278 🔗

To be fair though, they seem determined not to have anything to do with muzzle enforcement.’

Nah, include them anyway.

106460 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Achilles, 2, #529 of 1278 🔗

Did they also dye a lake to deter visitors?

106342 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, 8, #530 of 1278 🔗

Northants Police for wanting to search your shopping for “non essential” items.

106345 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #531 of 1278 🔗


106346 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, 7, #532 of 1278 🔗

South (I think?) Yorkshire Police for telling people not to sit in their front gardens.

106356 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #533 of 1278 🔗

Added they will be allocated number 25. Please keep this message safe as you may need this reference number in order to claim your share of confiscated assets

106360 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, 1, #534 of 1278 🔗

Donate my share to charity please :o))

106357 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #535 of 1278 🔗

Yes, it was South Yorkshire Police, just checked.

106359 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Cecil B, 3, #536 of 1278 🔗

National Education Union

106369 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #537 of 1278 🔗

Added. The Bank of Nigeria is doing the admin. In order to receive your cheque would you please forward your bank details

No, No, No I was only bloody joking

106365 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Cecil B, 8, #538 of 1278 🔗

Bournemouth Council for declaring an emergency when people went to the beach and the roads were a bit busy.

106371 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Achilles, 1, #539 of 1278 🔗


106381 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cecil B, 7, #540 of 1278 🔗

Norfolk police for tracking down the lad dressed as a Plague Doctor in Norwich, and giving him a stern talking to…

Bloody hell, that feels like ancient history now. And the madness just gets worse!

106395 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Cecil B, 7, #541 of 1278 🔗

Has anyone suggested Gates yet? If not, then as it’s my idea I should get all his assets which I promise to use to prosecute the rest of the list.

Who gets to choose who shares a cell with who?

106537 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to TJN, 6, #542 of 1278 🔗

Let’s airdrop the Gates’s in the middle of India, without police protection, and see what the locals do to them (I’ve just been watching Plandemic 2).

107314 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TJN, 1, #543 of 1278 🔗

Gates and Cockup.

106423 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cecil B, 8, #544 of 1278 🔗

Pot bangers.
TikTok nurses.
James O’Brien (“When a child dies, it’s on you .”)

106583 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Cecil B, 5, #545 of 1278 🔗

John Edmunds from Sage who has been bleating about second waves and wanted further lockdowns.

106586 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, 5, #546 of 1278 🔗

Companies, museums and heritage sites that embraced antisocial distancing and muzzle wearing with gusto.


Lady Harding of the Massive Epic Fail

Yorkshire Tea

Classic FM

Cathy Noakes

106618 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Cecil B, 4, #547 of 1278 🔗

Prof Devi Sridhar, tiresome woman.

106664 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 3, #548 of 1278 🔗


106759 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 6, #549 of 1278 🔗

And they should all be slung into a concentration camp to enjoy each other’s company for ever.
Fully masked, and noses and throats swabbed three times a day by an incompetent amateur, and vaccinated every couple of weeks, and made to clap the NHS for at least an hour every evening.

107171 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #550 of 1278 🔗

Plus be made to reenact Solzhenisyn’s One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich complete with transport to Siberia and with the social distancing and “bubbles” that they have inflicted on us.

And fed only bread and water all day every day.

107315 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #551 of 1278 🔗

Ooh, that’s nasty.

107194 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, #552 of 1278 🔗

Andy Burnham!

106332 Edna, replying to Edna, 1, #553 of 1278 🔗

(I’ve tried several times to post a comment but nothing happens…)

106334 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Edna, 1, #554 of 1278 🔗

Well, that one worked!

106337 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Edna, 1, #555 of 1278 🔗

That one’s come through.

106340 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Edna, 1, #556 of 1278 🔗

Sorry didn’t get it.

106373 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Edna, 15, #557 of 1278 🔗

Don’t do tests, you will get locked down.

106333 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #558 of 1278 🔗

Going away for a couple of days (stop cheering at the back), hopefully see all my fellow sceptics here on Sunday.

106347 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #559 of 1278 🔗

(Try and) Enjoy!

106341 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 16, #560 of 1278 🔗

So I have a 99.8895 of ‘surviving’ covid. but…..I have to live in dystopian nightmare for the rest of my days.

106757 ▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 3, #561 of 1278 🔗

No, you don’t. Unless you plan to live only for a very short time.
I intend to live normally for a very long time, and enjoy seeing the Fascist fiends getting what they deserve.

106344 Caramel, replying to Caramel, 4, #562 of 1278 🔗

Liberal Democrat MP in Aus is calling them out. He’s clearly done his research and doesn’t make it overly political. https://www.facebook.com/davidlimbrickldp/

He also had an interview with Dr Simon Thornley and Prof Gigi Foster which is also worth watching.

106378 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Caramel, 9, #563 of 1278 🔗

Excellent. Good on him.

Thank God we’ve got a highly effective and admirably fierce Lib Dem opposition here in Blighty too…

106437 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #564 of 1278 🔗


106621 ▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to Mr Dee, #565 of 1278 🔗


106355 Edna, replying to Edna, 19, #566 of 1278 🔗

Husband and I went to a restaurant last night, first time since 24th March.  We went with my sister and brother-in-law, my sister had arranged it. She said she would give false names for husband & me if required! Sister and brother-in-law arrived first so when we got there we just went straight to the table (visible from the door) and sat down. It was only later I noticed that there was sanitiser by the door, which we hadn’t used. No-one seemed even to notice.

It was almost normal! When we arrived neither the owner nor the waitresses were wearing masks; the tables were pretty much the same as last time we were there; there was no one-way system – but there couldn’t have been because the restaurant is too small; no-one asked for contact details. The waitress handed us the menus which were proper ones, not disposable sheets of paper.

I don’t know why, but later on, the staff started wearing masks and were wearing them to deliver our food.

We were waiting for our coffee when a large party arrived. There were 10 of them and they had the table to the side of us (4 people) and the table behind us (6 people). I got up to ask whether the table of 4 would like to swap tables with us, to be closer to the rest of the party. They thanked me but said it would be a fuss because our table would have to be sanitised. The older lady of the party (looked maybe 70) touched my arm, smiled at me and said ‘I think it’s all gone a bit too far now’. I smiled back and agreed and another, younger lady (possibly the other one’s daughter) said to her ‘You’re not allowed to touch’ and I just said that it was fine, I didn’t mind at all. They were very relaxed and didn’t shy away as I stood talking to them.

Mr. Edna paid cash, which wasn’t a problem, so all in all it was a very pleasant evening and the food was good too!

106796 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Edna, #567 of 1278 🔗

There are islands of sanity in the ocean of madness. (Pretentious – moi?)

106382 TJN, 9, #568 of 1278 🔗

Postcard from Brazil is an excellent piece.

The author makes  a striking – although on reflection obvious – point about Brazilian epidemiologists being some of the best in the world, because they are actually dealing with real disease outbreaks instead of researching them from an office. (I hope they don’t get cancelled by the WHO.)

A further important point surely needs to be added here: presumably, because they are dealing with actual disease, they are not spending the bulk of their working lives chasing the next research grant, and ‘networking’ to gain influence and playing politics.

106383 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 25, #569 of 1278 🔗

I have an unprecedented hatred for the word unprecedented which has been used an unprecedented amount during these unprecedented times. Not only have we had an unprecedented lockdown and unprecedented measures inflicted upon us, we are now also seeing unprecedented spikes in cases in an unprecedented amount of places due to an unprecedented amount of tests. However, we are not seeing unprecedented deaths or unprecedented hospitalisations as a result of such cases. Is that unprecedented?

106387 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, 14, #570 of 1278 🔗

Ha ha. The measures were indeed unpredented, the actual danger, not. The stupidity is unprecedented.

106421 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Julian, 3, #571 of 1278 🔗

Agreed!! 100%

106394 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Sarigan, 3, #572 of 1278 🔗

I’d like to share my favourite word in the current circumstances: Available. Yes, we have tables available. Yes, our normal menu is available. GP slots are available tomorrow! That is available in other colours. Here is a list of available tickets.

106419 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Sarigan, 2, #573 of 1278 🔗

to me the only thing that truly is unprecedented is you can order a pint at the French House in Soho- pre Covid only halfs

106477 ▶▶ anti_corruption_tsar, replying to Sarigan, #574 of 1278 🔗

My sentiments exactly – if you go back far enough you’ll find something similar that has happened historically. It’s a lack of historical knowledge as much as anything, and those who are blind to history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of their forefathers.

107323 ▶▶ rational actor, replying to Sarigan, 1, #575 of 1278 🔗

Over here in the US everything is challenging. Every other radio advert I hear is by some company that wants to help me in these challenging times. The cookery programme has recipes suitable for my challenging timetable. Mortgages are still available in this challenging employment climate. Walmart’s internal radio station understands the challenging decisions I make as I shop.

In real life the only challenging thing is putting up with this stupidity which, as you say, is unprecedented.

106388 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 47, #576 of 1278 🔗

Don’t know if the tide is turning but it seems to be nearly at high tide and ready for slack tide.

Maybe a bit too soon to be optimistic but there seems to be the odd green shoot poking through the soil ready to battle a late frost.

Few items I’ve noticed the last day or 2:

  • lot less horror stories of “we’re all going to die” in the MSM, changing to “why?” i.e. the 6 children’s deaths were really due to their underlying problems, not covid-19
  • more stories questioning covid-19 and the lockdown strategy
  • MPs and SAGE members putting their heads slightly above the parapet and saying possibly, maybe, perhaps it was slightly wrong
  • very few pro-narrative views in the comments on website, 99% are questioning or outright sceptical. Those which are pro-narrative voted down.
  • rumours of Boris going in 6 months
  • vaccine talk and immunity passports seems to have been dropped
  • Government and MSM getting more hysterical over meaningless “cases” due to positive tests
  • Councils fighting back slowly like in Aberdeen where rumours are the council told Sturgeon she stopped it all or they would regardless of what she wanted
  • WEF Davos meeting delayed
  • Gates getting flustered in interviews
  • Democrats in the USA refuse to let Biden do any live presidential debates against Trump as his limited mental capacity and inability to string a coherent sentence together will be obvious to all
  • less and less adherence to what a e becoming obviously idiotic and nonsensical “guidelines” and rules as government and councils don’t have a clue on what they are doing
  • Police openly admitted they are damned if they do, damned if they don’t enforce the rules the laws are that idiotic and the public are increasingly realising this
  • 1st head to roll at OFQAL, more to follow soon hopefully
  • more people you meet ready to listen to a sceptical viewpoint and take in the facts rather than metaphorically put hand over their ears and go la la la.
  • increasing notice taken of what is happening in NZ, Victoria and the countries with longest and strictest lockdown and mask wearing policies suffering the worst death numbers
  • open talk of genocide and deliberate murder of care home residents in the UK, Canada, new York and a few other places
  • masses awakening to the fact countries with more mask use have more illnesses, “new cases” etc when masks were sold as being there to stop transmission of viruses os the infection rate should be dropping to almost zero by now
  • BBC in particular but all MSM news shows totally discredited and only watched by most for their entertainment value

This may be the calm before the next onslaught that has been promised.

Or it may be that it’s the turning point of the battle/war and the retreat is about to start.

I’m braced and ready for it either way.

106401 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #577 of 1278 🔗

Anti lockdown/mask posts and comments on social media seem to be attracting a more positive ratio, but that is not to say the Karenfuhrer gestapo is not still on active patrol.

106407 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #578 of 1278 🔗

Agreed on all of those. The absurdities are becoming more apparent to more people. Sceptical journalists getting more air time. Increasingly desperate attempts by the likes of Piers Morgan to ramp up ‘second wave’ hysteria, and we haven’t even started to see the effects of mass unemployment and all the excess deaths yet. I give it until November, December latest. The tide has already turned, and it is going out quicker than they realise…

106417 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #579 of 1278 🔗

Agree that it looks like the tide is finally turning, but I have thought that before. The question now is whether they have torpedoed the country hard enough to put it into a spiral of hyperinflation, disappearing pensions and savings etc, or whether we will only get a very nasty recession.
I suppose at least if the economy does nose dive, at least there is the silver lining that Boris, Handjob, Ferguson and friends are more likely to rot in jail.

106596 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TheBluePill, 4, #580 of 1278 🔗

Don’t know about hyperinflation but months ago Sunak did not rule out taxing pensions when he was asked who was going to pay for all the borrowing. The triple lock will very likely go as well.

Those wealthy lokcdownistas will also get their day of reckoning.

107318 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #581 of 1278 🔗

And The Guardianistas.

107317 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #582 of 1278 🔗

Put them in The Tower. Like the good old days.

107758 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to richard riewer, #583 of 1278 🔗

Will that make the ravens come back?

106425 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Awkward Git, 20, #584 of 1278 🔗

I have offered 2 new contacts my hand to shake recently and they took it.
I had a drink with 5 long standing business contacts earlier in the week and we all hugged.

No way this would have happened even 2 months ago.

106452 ▶▶ anon, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #585 of 1278 🔗

would you have a link to the ‘gates getting flustered in interviews’ point you mentioned?

106484 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to anon, 1, #586 of 1278 🔗

Posted it a few days ago, will see if I have it still and repost.

106500 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #587 of 1278 🔗

that would be grand if you still have it. thanks

106502 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to anon, 3, #588 of 1278 🔗

Found it, the interview is from July but I only came across it recently:


106504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #589 of 1278 🔗

thank you!

106636 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #590 of 1278 🔗
  • WEF Davos meeting delayed

It will be a virtual meeting from their prison cells, with any luck!

106735 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #591 of 1278 🔗

No, they can have a chinwag as the cloth sacks and nooses are placed over their heads

106754 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Chris John, #592 of 1278 🔗

Hope I’m there to see it.

107319 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to PoshPanic, #593 of 1278 🔗

On Skype.

106750 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #594 of 1278 🔗

I’m braced too. But you encourage and inspire me. Thank you.

107020 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #595 of 1278 🔗

I think you’re right. I feel that we are at a bit of a crossroads, as is the government. We need to keep pushing at that door we’ve started to break down.

106399 Lockdown Truth, 1, #596 of 1278 🔗

Michael Ryan of WHO lets slip “the New Normal” (9m37s) while addressing “Event 201” in October 2019. https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/videos.html

106400 Beowa, replying to Beowa, 4, #597 of 1278 🔗

The mutant algorithm exposed – I’m sure anyone like me who trained as an RPG programmer must be fed up to the back teeth of media hacks, government spokespeople and other sundry people blaming the “Algorithm”
Programs are specified, given a decision tree and coded, parameters can be amended for various reports
Still it’s always good to blame technology when you need a scapegoat

106574 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Beowa, 1, #598 of 1278 🔗

RPG – there’s a blast from the past.

It did get harder to find jobs once Rocket Propelled Grenades became more popular … 🙂

106403 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 17, #599 of 1278 🔗

Just read in the news that Grant Snapps is telling workers to get back to work because after 5 months the penny has finally dropped that everyone hiding out at home and baking soda bread isn’t good for the economy. This got me thinking and I expect to be shot down. But maybe us fine sceptics need to change tack and become bed wetting extremists. Unless the Government can promise our safety from this terrible plague we shall remain firmly ensconced in front of Netflix on our sofas. In addition as we are all exempt from wearing masks, the threatening conduct of the masketeers (egged on my C Dick) means that we are fearful to venture out and therefore unless a) we are given assurances of our safety and b) the mask mandate is revoked, sadly we will be unable to leave our fortresses. Maybe this would box TPTB into a corner to fess up that it’s all been a complete cock up.

106409 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Fed up, 10, #600 of 1278 🔗

Already on it. I have completely withdrawn from civil society and will continue to do so until every single one of the restrictions has been abolished. I am telling everyone I know (family, friends, colleagues) that this is exactly what I am doing, and providing them with the reasons why. What they choose to do with this information is up to them.

106418 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard O, 4, #601 of 1278 🔗

I fear that’s exactly what TPTB want us to do.

106433 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #602 of 1278 🔗

You may well be right. All I can say from my perspective is that I cannot be around people wearing masks for more than a few seconds without feeling complete revulsion. I therefore have no option other than to pursue this course of action in order to preserve my own sanity. Being ostracised from a society that has degraded to such an extent is not a punishment, it’s key to my psychological survival.

106449 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard O, 3, #603 of 1278 🔗

Me and my Mrs too

106461 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to Richard O, 2, #604 of 1278 🔗

I feel likewise

106467 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Richard O, 5, #605 of 1278 🔗

On seeing the muzzled ones I’ve gone through 3 stages: I used to pity them, then I was angry with them, and now it’s sadness at their stupidity.

106476 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to bluemoon, 3, #606 of 1278 🔗

Stage 2.5 for me; angry at their stupidity.

106488 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to bluemoon, 2, #607 of 1278 🔗

I just ignore them

106614 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, 1, #608 of 1278 🔗

I’m between stage 2 and 3.

106746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to bluemoon, 1, #609 of 1278 🔗

They just make me feel sick.

106877 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to annie, 2, #610 of 1278 🔗

Don’t worry they make themselves feel sick too – literally.

106516 ▶▶▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Richard O, 8, #611 of 1278 🔗

I’m with you. I just went to the large Tesco Express Horsham for just 2 things. Maskless and I think the only one. Except some staff of course who were stood around chatting, no masks. This virus is obviously really clever and knows only to harm customers and not staff! I rushed around and could not look at anyone else, grabbed my 2 things and got the hell out of there. Not because I was embarrassed to be maskless, far from it. But it makes me feel very distressed and repulsed to see all these brainwashed masked up individuals. No smiles, just watery eyes peering over the top. The small children and the edlerly struggling to breathe. As per usual on queuing up to get in, I noticed most had the mask sitting around their necks continuously touching with grubby fingers. No more. I’ll be keeping away.

106544 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Suzyv, 5, #612 of 1278 🔗

Being around the undead is not something that I will ever accept. Undead is being generous actually, in my mind these people are already dead. Mindless, soulless sacks of meat animated only by the state death signal.

106747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 3, #613 of 1278 🔗

Spot on.
And the stink of moral and mental decay is all around them.

106909 ▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Richard O, 3, #614 of 1278 🔗

Same here more or less, I shop for food but have no interest any more in any non-essential/leisure activity where masks and distancing are involved.
It’s not just a matter of principle, but it just makes me so depressed having to go through this charade (or seeing others do it) knowing it’s both pointless and socially, psychologically and economically harmful to everybody.

107168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 2, #615 of 1278 🔗

Same. What the hell is wrong with people? I saw a woman today, about 30 ish, in a pub car park out in the country side with bastard blue gloves on, an older lady, standing at an outdoor butcher’s trailer, gloves and a mask, a young bloke walking his dog along a river bank with a mask on. The last two were in Wales.

I drove through Hay-on-wye today, sea of masked up people. Just horrible.

Do these people think they are cleverer than us non maskers, or do they think we are stupid for not taking precautions, or foolhardy, do they think they are being kind to others, or do they think they are more vulnerable? Are they just totally brainless idiots? Have they no self respect?

It’s all of these things isn’t it? A reason to wear one for everybody.

This mask thing is just the most corrosive toxic governmental fu*&ery I have ever seem.

I wish they would just stop it. It’s torture.

106408 Mike, replying to Mike, 3, #616 of 1278 🔗

Scary stuff…

Love this bit which seems to have been sneaked in; In addition, the Government will clarify the protection from civil liability that healthcare staff could face.’

106415 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mike, 13, #617 of 1278 🔗

Hmmm. Interesting that they can find an army of medics to inflict a vaccine that 99.9% of the population don’t need, yet there’s a waiting list of millions for real and urgent medical treatment.

106426 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #618 of 1278 🔗

a vaccine that 99.9% of the population don’t need

But the 0.1% who need it most include the politicians, who desperately, desperately need it so they can get out of the hole they’ve dug for themselves, by claiming their disastrously costly panic measures kept us alive long enough for a vaccine to come along and save us.

Doesn’t need to be any real evidence it’s true – just enough of a handwaving argument to muddy the waters for them while they tell everyone to “move on”.

106545 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #619 of 1278 🔗

Does anybody ‘require’ an untested vaccine???

106441 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mike, 7, #620 of 1278 🔗

“If we develop effective vaccines, it’s important we make them available to patients as quickly as possible…”

Is a healthy person a ‘patient’, then?

106420 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 20, #621 of 1278 🔗


30 years after the Berlin Wall came down and this sort ofvthing was consigned to the dustbin of history we now find our own government, local authorities and unelected public health quangocrats cheered on by the local press in encouraging us to become state snitches. What a thoroughly nasty place this country is becoming.

106422 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to LGDTLK, 6, #622 of 1278 🔗

Snitches are lowest of the low

106456 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to LGDTLK, 5, #623 of 1278 🔗

It makes you wish these businesses could just shut down now, before these filthy scum snitch on them. Board the place up. Embarrass the council. Claim as many benefits as possible, furlough, etc. Obviously stop paying business rates. Retire. It’s unfortunate for the workers and suppliers, etc. but this council should suffer the consequences. Evil t***s.

106469 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to LGDTLK, #624 of 1278 🔗

This has to be bollocks. Look what popped up on my Google news feed (not that I use Google anymore, strictly duck duck go for me now).


106512 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, #625 of 1278 🔗

Britain’s biggest grocer Tesco has announced a canny trick to combat people not wearing face coverings in stores.

106524 ▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to stefarm, 1, #626 of 1278 🔗

Canny? Trick? Just marketing and publcity.

106609 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Polemon2, 4, #627 of 1278 🔗

The supermarket giant then continued: “There may be some colleagues, though, who are not wearing masks for medical or safety reasons. These reasons are set out by the government.”

They don’t seem to realise their staff are simply exempt, full stop. Or perhaps they don’t want to spread the word?

106641 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #628 of 1278 🔗

I’ve been in Tesco a few times since the mask mandate,there is no enforcement.

106647 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #629 of 1278 🔗

It’s the one major I haven’t collected yet. Asda, Aldi, Lidl, local Co op, Home Bargains, Sports Direct all fine. Challenged once, at a Morrisons, said I’m exempt and that was it.

106905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #630 of 1278 🔗

What were your experiences with Co-op? This is the closest supermarket to my home, and I haven’t been there since the mask mandate, only to the Tesco near my workplace (no enforcement there, though close to 100% customers wearing masks every time I’ve shopped there)

107220 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Drawde927, 1, #631 of 1278 🔗

I’ve not been challenged in my local Co-op and they even play an announcement reminding customers that not everyone can wear a mask.

107762 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Drawde927, #632 of 1278 🔗

We’ve only got a Coop near us & they have a tanoy announcement, saying not everyone can wear masks.

107281 ▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Polemon2, #633 of 1278 🔗

Canny – I bet they’re handing it to you with bare fingers.. Be interesting to watch exactly how they handle it! 🙂

107210 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, 2, #634 of 1278 🔗

But supermarkets say they are not making staff police the new law, which came into effect a month ago, on July 24.
“There may be some colleagues, though, who are not wearing masks for medical or safety reasons. These reasons are set out by the government.”

106540 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to LGDTLK, 2, #635 of 1278 🔗

Snitches get stitches!

106561 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to LGDTLK, 1, #636 of 1278 🔗

For those who fancy making a point or two in person –

0121 303 1116

106453 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 15, #637 of 1278 🔗

NHS, Covid cancels Christmas.
An NHS nurse tells me that all staff have been forbidden from organizing or attending informal out of hours Xmas events, of any size at all, because the Covid

Just what they need to boost moral.

106459 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to karenovirus, 5, #638 of 1278 🔗

What no carol singing or festive dancing on tik tok…….

106464 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 3, #639 of 1278 🔗

It’s been cancelled for weeks now.

106536 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 6, #640 of 1278 🔗

The whole Xmas party market has gone out the window. Hotel and restaurant won’t be surviving this year.

106455 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #641 of 1278 🔗

Nina Myskow on Vine, pushing for Australian style measures. Silkie Carlo from Big Brother Watch countering…

106465 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #642 of 1278 🔗

Why doesn’t myscow fuck off to Australia then.

106468 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 7, #643 of 1278 🔗

Elegant, logical and sound reasoning.

106473 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #644 of 1278 🔗

Thanks, think I might put that on my business cards.

107320 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stefarm, 1, #645 of 1278 🔗

She can dish it out but she can’t take it.

106457 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 10, #646 of 1278 🔗

It’s going to be an interesting weekend.

Notting hill carnival cancelled – I really can’t see celebrations not happening, plenty of parties and soundsystems just not on the usual route.

Trafalgar Square protest.

Keep up the good fight people.

106462 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 10, #647 of 1278 🔗

Yep, Police on radio earlier saying it’s relatively easy to find the organiser of say, a rave in a huge warehouse, but for local sound systems springing up it’s imposssible. Not my bag, but more power to ’em.

106491 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to stefarm, 1, #648 of 1278 🔗

Don Letts who appears on 6music did a history of the Carnival and he said that in the early 70’s the Jamaican sound systems appeared or rather in his words invaded the carnival. Makes me wonder whether they were ever officially sanctioned but tolerated. This weekend we will find out. Also the early curfew has meant people are used to going to after Carnival parties-I guess they haven’t been cancelled. So hopefully we will see some welcome Jamaican resistance!

106499 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to crimsonpirate, 10, #649 of 1278 🔗

Plus, the police won’t be keen on arresting a lot of ‘non-white’ folk, so that will work in their favour. Then we just count the days until the wave of deaths that inevitably won’t happen, and we have more evidence.

106511 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #650 of 1278 🔗

They will be on one knee

106515 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #651 of 1278 🔗

Yeah just add it to the list of things that were supposed to cause a second wave:-

  • VE Day Celebrations
  • People going to the beaches
  • BLM protests
  • Barbecues
  • Holiday makers in Cornwall
  • Re-opening restaurants/cafes
  • etc, etc, etc.
106589 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Achilles, 4, #652 of 1278 🔗

Add the Cheltenham festival, Liverpool v Atletico Madrid, all the packed tubes, trains, buses, pubs (no masks remember) pre-lockdown when hospitalisations and deaths were actually happening and during winter months. No links whatsoever. Why? The people in these settings are generally healthy with functioning immune systems. Elderly people in hospitals and care homes however….

106790 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #653 of 1278 🔗

add Old Compton st Soho the first weekend bars were allowed to open,Leeds getting promoted, Liverpool winning the Premier league

106742 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, 1, #654 of 1278 🔗

… being alive?Very dangerous, being alive.

106861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, 2, #655 of 1278 🔗

Yep. Comes with 100% fatality.

106523 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #656 of 1278 🔗

Should the protestors ‘black up’ then, for their own protection? Just a suggestion?

106795 ▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #657 of 1278 🔗

minstrels lives matter

106821 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to crimsonpirate, #658 of 1278 🔗

The white ones too?

106785 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #659 of 1278 🔗

Don’t worry the police will probably save their energy for a proposed demo outside the Royal Albert Hall on Last night of the Proms-apparently some folk are gathering for a sing song-could get interesting when they hear what’s been done to Jerusalem!

106472 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 9, #660 of 1278 🔗


A savage and brilliant short satire on the “moral superiority” of mask wearers. Check out her YouTube channel as well, plenty of other really excellent contributions.

106580 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Richard O, #661 of 1278 🔗


106629 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, #662 of 1278 🔗

That was good!!!

106739 ▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, #663 of 1278 🔗

Watch it! Add a comment! It’s brill.

106478 TheRealRob, replying to TheRealRob, 14, #664 of 1278 🔗

The German Corona Investigation Committee are preparing to file a US Class Action Case against those who are responsible for the Corona scandal. Please check, how you can join and check, how lawyers/attorneys in your country can join.

Dr. Reiner Fuellmich (Lawyer in Germany and California) explains (I transcribed the beginning of the video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_sTEem7LG4

“I am Reiner Fuellmich, I am an attorney practising law both in Germany and in California. For more than 26 years I have been active primarily as a consumer protection trial lawyer. I want to tell you about the possibility of filing a Class Action Case against those who are responsible for the Corona scandal , which has plunged large parts of the world into chaos, but – oddly enough – not for example India, Africa or – here in Europe – the country of Sweden.

As one of four members of the German Corona Investigation Committee, I’ve been listening to medical, legal, economic and other experts from all over the world, answering our questions about: “How dangerous is the allegedly new strain of the Corona virus really?”, “How reliable are the PCR tests, which are the basis for almost all those anti Corona measures?” and “What damage do the measures do to public and individual health and to the economy?”

And here is the result: There can be no legal doubt, that every person or company who or which suffered damages (like loss of income because of the lockdown) is entitled to full recovery of such damages. Responsible are not only the so called “Officials” or the Government, but also and primarily the manufacturers and sellers of the PCR tests. This is because the political lockdown decision is almost entirely based on those tests, which – contrary to official assurances – are completely unsuitable for detecting an infection.

The PCR test is in fact not even licensed or proved for diagnostic purposes. For two reasons, it is extremely urgent, both to terminate all anti Corona measures immediately, and to recover damages as quickly as possible.

Firstly there is no factual valid legal basis for these measures including the face masks. And secondly – because of the measures – not because of the corona virus – the biggest wave of bankruptcies of all time threatens the world’s economy right now. And this will particularly affect medium sized companies, small businesses and the self employed, which – here in Germany – comprise the backbone of the German economy, and which is responsible for 65% of all jobs here in Germany.

However, as we in Germany know from years of court experience in cases with so called “Structural Imbalances” (that means small companies, investors, consumers suing fraudulent corporations such as Deutsche Bank, VW and most recently Wiredcard). Because of the experience here in Germany, we know that the German Judiciary lacks the necessary political independence to apply the law to such politically and economically powerful players. For this reason, a regional court here in Germany has just made headlines in the news, when it referred a Diesel fraud case against VW to the European Court Of Justice, asking the court to confirm that the German judiciary lacks the political independence to decide such legal disputes correctly and without prejudice.

In this situation, a real US style Class Action can help . This is how it works in the United States: If a large number of persons or enterprises suffer the same type of damage – for example monetary damage due to loss of income – because of the same conduct or infringement (the lockdown), a court of law may permit the result in cases to be tried in a Class Action Suit. The court will then publish this – typically in the generally accessible print media – if necessary also internationally – so that each individual who suffered such damage can decide whether or not he or she wants to join the class .

The advantage of the Class Action is that only one single complaint is filed – namely by a typical representative of the class. This is cheaper and usually faster than filing hundreds of thousands or more individual law suits, and it is less burdensome on the court system. Also it avoids contradictory judgements.”

Please watch the video for the full statement:

106531 ▶▶ RickH, replying to TheRealRob, 2, #665 of 1278 🔗

Very interesting – although I am not optimistic. The conclusions are, however, spot on.

106623 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to TheRealRob, #666 of 1278 🔗

Yeah right. Who’s going to sue whom in which jurisdiction.

106626 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to TheRealRob, #667 of 1278 🔗

The guy’s a practising lawyer in Germany and California. If he thinks it worth a shot, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.

107283 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to JohnB, #668 of 1278 🔗

Maybe. I’ve seen a few people talk about the benefits of HcQ, & while doing so take real direct aim at the US mainstream media, inc. Richard Grenell (a former Ambassador to Germany) Dr Samadi, indirectly come very close to accusing the media of culpable homicide, in their reporting & trashing the drug which could potentially have saved tens of thousands, at least. One lawyer on board, then maybe another, who knows….

106660 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to TheRealRob, #669 of 1278 🔗


Hopefully TOBY can include in his update tomorrow.

107042 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, #670 of 1278 🔗

I don’t think so. The only place he could get any traction would be in the US where even madder things get litigated, and they go in for ‘punitive damages’ as well. But good luck sueing the manufacturers of PCR tests, the standard lab tests in use all over the world, and NOT the basis of the political lockdown decisions.

106891 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to TheRealRob, #671 of 1278 🔗

The great advantage of class actions is that the lawyers get most of the money and none of the mug punters has the means to do anything about it. Very often in USA dubious charities are next in line in the interests of ‘restitution’. Again the mug punters have no say.

106481 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #672 of 1278 🔗

Welcome to 2030 (the better alternative):

I Own Myself, Have Privacy And Life Has Never Been Better

106871 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Sarigan, 1, #673 of 1278 🔗

A great read! Definitely wishful thinking, but if this crisis makes people even slightly more sceptical of media/authority/big data etc. than now, at least it’s a step in the right direction.

(I suspect the tide will have turned by the end of the year, maybe within the next couple of months, but I also suspect many/most of the culprits and media facilitators/collaborators will get away with it, or at least avoid prosecution)

107213 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #674 of 1278 🔗

Legacy media are still broadcasting traumatic propaganda, but they’re treated as drug dealers.
Good analogy.

106482 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 41, #675 of 1278 🔗

Just checked my stats. 1 in 29,000 chance of dying. My daughter is 1 in 2.5 million. My wife on the other hand is 1 in 10,000 so I’ve shut her in the spare room just to be careful.

106493 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Achilles, 15, #676 of 1278 🔗

I hope you check on her at least once a month.

106497 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Basileus, 23, #677 of 1278 🔗

It’s getting food to her without opening the door that’s the problem. All I can say is she’ll be eating a lot of tortillas for a while.

106606 ▶▶▶▶ Arthur Pewty, replying to Achilles, 4, #678 of 1278 🔗

My wife has been doing well on after eight mints and ryvita since April.

106612 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Achilles, 5, #679 of 1278 🔗

I sympathise, Achilles. I must admit, I have been worried about how bad I would feel if I had to chuck my misses out, if she became non-sceptical. No-one seems to think about us silent victims…

106555 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Achilles, 21, #680 of 1278 🔗

Very relieved you are shutting your wife in the spare room since you simply cannot be too careful. I read that the risk of death in pregnancy/childbirth in the UK is also around 1 in 10,000 so part of me is shocked that you were so cavalier as to even have your daughter. However, those stats are pre-covid and as long as the risk is not of death from covid, I believe that we are still allowed to exercise a degree of reason and common sense in these decisions. Although I will need to check the latest government position.

106572 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Jenny, 17, #681 of 1278 🔗

I won’t even go downstairs without full government guidance on how to get out of bed safely, get dressed safely, open the door safely and walk down stairs safely. It is reckless and irresponsible for them not to be providing full guidance and risk assessments for every moment of my waking life.

106613 ▶▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Youth_Unheard, 12, #682 of 1278 🔗

There isn’t any guidance indicating a safe way to get out of bed so you should probably stay put. I, myself, am currently under the duvet festering in my own waste matter until we get some clear and unequivocal indication from the government that doing otherwise is 100% safe.

106615 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Youth_Unheard, 6, #683 of 1278 🔗

Been talking to my wife about this on a lovely trip to the local cafe, no distancing or masks required.

For the extremes, the ones who are still shielding their lives away (we know one who still won’t let anyone into her house, including grand children), the government will have to send around a man in a white coat and explain to them its all OK.

They simply won’t see it for themselves. They’ll need led by the nose. It’s as if they went into a bunker during a nuclear attack and just can’t be sure if its are to come out.

Or maybe they don’t really deserve a place back in the real world. No, actually, I’ll grant them that. Just.

107321 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #684 of 1278 🔗

Big Brother is such a swell guy. So cuddly too.

106827 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Jenny, 2, #685 of 1278 🔗

doorknobs are very dangerous I’ve heard. best not to touch them. Or come within 2m of them?

106620 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Achilles, 7, #686 of 1278 🔗

No matter how pissed off you feel on any certain day there’s always something on here that makes you laugh and the cloud instantly lifts and today this post is the one it really made me chuckle thanks!

106658 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Achilles, 1, #687 of 1278 🔗

Just keep the fomites away from your feet and you’ll be fine.

106731 ▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, 2, #688 of 1278 🔗

Just watch out for that heel of yours. Covid loves heels.

106786 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to annie, 4, #689 of 1278 🔗

That’s why it’s important to achieve total immersion of the baby in the sanitizer.

106823 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Alethea, #690 of 1278 🔗


107322 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #691 of 1278 🔗

Covid is a cross dresser?

106485 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 15, #692 of 1278 🔗

Some thought provoking remarks on here the other day about why British people have been so supine.

The Prime Minister is to blame.

Had he shown the leadership expected of him, much of the country would have been right behind him.

There is a distinct parallel with 1938.

Chamberlain had been mayor of Birmingham.

‘The prime minister did not inform his cabinet or seek its approval before making plans to negotiate personally with Hitler — an action that flouted the conventions of the British governmental system. Nor did he ever consult Parliament……’

‘Using tactics that have striking resonance today, Chamberlain and his men badgered the BBC and newspapers to follow the government’s lead on appeasement, restricted journalists’ access to government sources and claimed that critics of Chamberlain’s policies were disloyal to him and to Britain. Most of the news media did what the prime minister demanded. The BBC barred Winston Churchill and other opponents of appeasement from the airwaves, while newspaper editors refused to print articles on Britain’s unpreparedness and letters to the editor critical of the government’s concessions to Germany…..’


As a consequence of this manipulation, an early opinion poll showed 57% supporting Chamberlain immediately after the Munich debacle.

Today’s Prime Minister similarly crumbled when faced with a French threat to close their channel ports in late March and was supported by polls in March/April, public opinion led by the compliant state broadcaster and others.

Regarding Chamberlain, we know what happened next…….

106490 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #693 of 1278 🔗

Yes, I agree, Boris had his ‘Churchill Moment’ and he blew it.

106508 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basileus, 4, #694 of 1278 🔗

Churchill the nodding dog

107284 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to stefarm, #695 of 1278 🔗

Ooooh Yes.

106522 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #696 of 1278 🔗

The only thing that surprises me is that you sound surprised that Mr Toad is a total w.er. His record (forget political allegiances) was obvious and plain to see : a blustering,narcissistic liar, prone to laziness, taking the easy option, and being a spendthrift.

None of that was hidden.

106732 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, 2, #697 of 1278 🔗

He had a good spell as editor of The Spectator…private sector success

He had a good spell as London mayor, particularly when compared to the current lunatic……public sector success

He won two elections in London, the eu referendum and, most recently, a strong parliamentary majority.

What other serving politician can compare with that?

That he should turn out to be Chamberlain rather than Churchill when faced, early in his tenure, with a major challenge is not so much a surprise, since Chamberlain was also successful in both private and public sectors, as a great disappointment; the vanquishing of hope once more by experience.

106486 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 23, #698 of 1278 🔗

Popped down to Screwfix for a ‘Click and Collect’ this morning. The following is the text of my email to their head office:

As I approached the door I was challenged by the member of staff on duty with, ‘Do you have a mask’.
In response I showed her my exemption badge which is on a lanyard around my neck.
‘Sorry, I didn’t see it, I don’t have my glasses on, she said’, ‘I have never seen one before’.

I am concerned that the member of staff has not been made aware of government guidance and the attendant legal position which is summarised below:

(here I inserted the mask law guidance from Law or Fiction)

I want to make it clear that I am not complaining about the attitude of the particular member of staff, but I want to be helpful, since it is clear that there is a need for staff training as you are otherwise running the risk that a more petulant individual could make a complaint under disability discrimination.

Incidentally the overall experience of visiting the depot reminded me of a visit I made to an inmate of Durham prison some years ago. Unnecessarily OTT.

Yours sincerely ….

I wonder whether they will thank me?

106506 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basileus, 6, #699 of 1278 🔗

Yes, there really is a lack of understanding of the guidelines. Everyone has an exemption as it causes distress. I defy anyone who says he or she enjoys wearing a mask.

106513 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 4, #700 of 1278 🔗

There’ll be some awkward b.s who will claim it’s no problem.

106538 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to RickH, 2, #701 of 1278 🔗

There’s always 1, probably drives a Prius.

Apologies to those of you who drive a Prius.

106591 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stefarm, 4, #702 of 1278 🔗

Never apologise to anyone who drives a Prius.

106514 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basileus, 2, #703 of 1278 🔗

Put into the hands of returning school pupils tge badges would cause mayhem. Even if the pupils just talk in their break about such a badge existing.

106610 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basileus, 3, #704 of 1278 🔗

Toolstation just moved their counter to the door, so none of this bollocks

106651 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #705 of 1278 🔗

Correct! The difference between Toolstation and screwfix has been glaring. I always imagined they are the same group but this stress test has shown Toolstation to have the more robust central management in place.

106882 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #706 of 1278 🔗

Our local place has built a counter out in the yard, I could have hugged them! I did have my ‘We’re all going to die’ mask ready just in case.

106729 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basileus, #707 of 1278 🔗

We certainly thank you! That’s the spirit!

106498 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #708 of 1278 🔗

Hydroxychloroquine, evidence of efficacy76,789 views•27 Aug 2020
– Dr John Campbell

732K subscribers

Belgium, not Dutch. Low-dose Hydroxychloroquine Therapy and Mortality in Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19: A Nationwide Observational Study of 8075 Participants (International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, 24 August)


106553 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #709 of 1278 🔗

8075 patients with complete discharge data
HCQ group, n = 4,542 Deaths, 804, (17.7%)
no-HCQ group, n = 3,533 Deaths, 957 (27.1%)

Multivariable analysis
Mortality was lower in the HCQ group compared to the no-HCQ group Hazard ratio = 0.684
Estimated direct-adjusted mortality at 40 days 19.1% with HCQ alone 26.5% with supportive care only
Mortality in the HCQ group was reduced
Both in patients diagnosed in less than 5 days and more than 5 days

Compared to supportive care only, low-dose HCQ monotherapy was independently associated with lower mortality in hospitalized patients with COVID-19 diagnosed and treated early or later after symptom onset.

106558 ▶▶ Klein, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #710 of 1278 🔗

Yeah I watched that one last night. Fair play to him for making a video on that. Would have been easier to ignore it.

106507 Robert William, 3, #711 of 1278 🔗

I’m very pleased someone has finally taken the revised CDC IFR estimate through the grinder. I looked at the study they cited a while back and had the exact same concerns. It consists of what is effectively garbage. I was shocked they more than doubled their estimate when I think most of us here would agree the original 0.26% was likely already quite high. This is exactly the type of misinformation that leads to more bad models which lead to even worse policy decisions. A big thanks to those working hard to keep everyone honest (a monumental task).

106510 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #712 of 1278 🔗

BBC news roll-repeating a clip of an earlier interview trying to stoke up the reinfection narrative. The academic clearly tries his best to make the most out of the single case in Hong Kong which was later seen to be a different infection.

1 out of seven billion. But we need that fear.

All as predicted if anyone pays attention. This reinfection story is going to be hard work for the journalists to make it stick.

106534 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 8, #713 of 1278 🔗

The BBC has been utterly despicable.

106549 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Julian, 3, #714 of 1278 🔗

They have warned about a second wave for so long they (and others) are desperate to find anything that supports that view.

106727 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Polemon2, 1, #715 of 1278 🔗

A wave of seconds?

106563 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Basics, 4, #716 of 1278 🔗

And he wasn’t ill so all it proves is that if you catch it once yes you can be infected but your immune system does the rest and fights it off without you even knowing! Gah if the news just reported the facts and let people decipher then for themselves, I doubt many could come to the conclusion that it is a killer disease that is still ever present and going to strike you or your granny down at any point.

106637 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #717 of 1278 🔗

This was reinfection bebunked within hours of the news coming out. So was the Belgian case which todays BBC talking head strangely ommits from his speech. Both clamoured after by the oppressors. Keep watch for more reinfection pseudo-science on it’s way. They need this, they are desperate.

106663 ▶▶▶▶ Klein, replying to Basics, 1, #718 of 1278 🔗

Hi mate – was this the Hong Kong reinfection? Was it debunked?

106723 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Klein, #719 of 1278 🔗

Five Eyes internal newsletter, aka The Guardian, drifted out this piece of #COVID19 propaganda 2day, implying man allegedly “reinfected” is sick again, but he’s not. Read closer you find, “caused by slightly different strain.” This story is pure bullshit:


106517 Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 5, #720 of 1278 🔗

Catch Episode 3 – episode 4 out later today/tomorrow!

106559 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 1, #721 of 1278 🔗

Listened to Episode 3 a couple of days ago…great to hear your voice!! Great podcast and worth a listen fellow sceptics. Looking forward to Episode 4!

106632 ▶▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #722 of 1278 🔗

Thanks man!

106672 ▶▶ Klein, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, #723 of 1278 🔗

These are good mate, listening to episode 2 now and working my way to 4. The quality is excellent, do you run it all through a compressor or limiter?

106519 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 11, #724 of 1278 🔗

Wales has ‘one of lowest’ Covid-19 mortality rates

Maskovites: How do you like them apples? No masks here – so piss off with your stupid arguments.

106557 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #725 of 1278 🔗

The evidence that there is little link between government actions and the course of the virus is now pretty overwhelming.

See on of the latest reports, cited yesterday :


106725 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #726 of 1278 🔗

Punch the clean Welsh air! 😁

106520 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 14, #727 of 1278 🔗

Even those predicted inverse fatality rates (chance of surviving) are pessimistic.
Those are the absolute fatality rates, not discounting normal fatality. If you take the INCREASE in risk vs. normal mortality, then it is tiny.

The report states: “For those without a comorbidity, the cIFR is effectively zero and flat up to the age of 50”. And yes, cIFR increases with age beyond 50, but so does normal mortality.

I believe the government and the media deliberately obfuscate by talking about risk factors like obesity and racial background. The main pre-existing conditions recorded by the ONS are the usual causes of death. It becomes a medical or terminological argument whether the main cause was Covid or the advanced dementia/alzeimer’s that the person already had. In the end what matters is total excess deaths or increase/decrease in lifespan, which comes to the same thing.

The virtue signallers will argue that it is callous to allow a disease to sweep through the elderly population, even if they have dementia. That is a straw man argument. The argument is not that they have dementia. It is that they are statistically about to die of dementia (or whatever the pre-existing condition is).

It is the same argument about whether you continue to pump a dying person full of antibiotics if they have an infection. At some point, enough is enough.

The data certainly show a spike in excess deaths in April. But, if you take into account a) non-Covid related deaths caused by the withdrawal of medical treatment, b) dip below average in normal end of life mortality in June, c) normal variation for good/bad flu years, and d) persistent death from flu and pneumonia during lockdown, then I think it is quite likely to show negligible excess deaths and negligible benefit of lockdown. If that’s the case, we have literally locked down for nothing.

Then we get to the real virtue signalling. Every life is precious, we will do everything in our power etc. etc. In that case you really have to look at what harm is being caused in pursuit of a tiny amount of QALYs, and what other better uses of resources there are, like education, food, heating, preventive medicine etc.

106530 ▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 11, #728 of 1278 🔗

People subsciously do cost-benefit analyses all the time. It’s unavoidable. They just don’t realise they are doing them. And anyone who argues that saving life at all costs is justifiable on any grounds, or normal, is simply mad and wrong. How do they think the NHS decides what to spend its money on?

It’s not a hard argument to make, and the government could and should have made it – that’s what they are there for. The fact that they didn’t, and chose to produce relentless propaganda that pretended these tradeoffs were worth it, has made the job of making that argument hugely more difficult now because people will think the wool is being pulled.

106571 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #729 of 1278 🔗

Even from a limited perspective, it wouldn’t have even been a difficult case to make honestly – that extreme measures would, in fact, lead to the death of many more people than a mild virus.

106579 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 4, #730 of 1278 🔗

And anyone who argues that saving life at all costs is justifiable on any grounds, or normal, is simply mad and wrong

And yet this basically infantile position is the one that dominated in most countries around the world, and it was advocated as though it were a rational position, by people of high intelligence and educated to very high levels.

Just goes to show that neither intelligence nor education is of any useful effect, once people have either stopped reasoning due to fear, or begun to rationalise dishonestly in order to protect a policy they want for ulterior motives.

106645 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, 4, #731 of 1278 🔗

‘ The fact that they didn’t…’ I rewatched the first session of the Science and Tech Committee (Commons) chaired by Greg Clark the other day, to see if I was being too affected by hindsight. Ferguson says several times that the politicians were always weighing up the relative costs and benefits. They have presumably continued to do so. Why then are they getting it so wrong?

106734 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Bruno, 1, #732 of 1278 🔗

With the level of media hysteria, and especially from political opponents, it is difficult to see any benefit to the government in resisting lockdown.

106781 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 3, #733 of 1278 🔗

A simple example would be a non swimmer seeing somebody drowning. It’s unlikely they would simply jump in and try to save the other person. They would either seek help or something they could throw to the drowning person to pull them to safety.

Saving life at all costs? Not if it’s going to put their own life at risk.

106564 ▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, 3, #734 of 1278 🔗

As a registered Old Fart with far more serious issues to contemplate, I can say simply :

“Just f. off and go play with yourself rather than interfering where you’re feverish imagination is not wanted. Got it?”

107142 ▶▶ annie, replying to WhyNow, #735 of 1278 🔗

I think, subject to correction, that most people who have been through the medicalised death of an elderly relative know that a time comes when Nature just says ‘No, that’s it, finish, I’m signing off.’
To keep the person ‘alive’ after that moment is sheer cruelty.

106525 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 58, #736 of 1278 🔗

Youngest just came back from school as the student leaders were meeting the new teachers. Came back elated. Absolutely marvellous to be mixing with other pupils, social distancing rules broke down in the space of 1 hour and no one cared. Long may this last.

106526 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Fed up, 6, #737 of 1278 🔗


106529 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #738 of 1278 🔗

… Anders Tegnell told reporters, … that people should be seated at least one metre apart.

Slightly disappointed that Sweden are still exercising caution against a burned-out virus. They seem to be testing a lot too.

106548 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #739 of 1278 🔗

I’ve heard that the Swedes are a naturally cautious people.

106552 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #740 of 1278 🔗

Look on the bright side – they did stand up to incontinent bullying from other nations.

106568 ▶▶ PaulC, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #741 of 1278 🔗

The joke in Sweden (courtesy of my brother who has lived there for 40 years) is:

‘Why only 2 metres?’

106581 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #742 of 1278 🔗

I suspect that Tegnell is protecting his flank, politically, there.

106607 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 2, #743 of 1278 🔗

Yes. Unfortunately with CV19, politics always trumps medical facts and common sense.

106646 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #744 of 1278 🔗

SD was invented for torture and trialled to see whether it would make a difference in a pandemic by a 14 year old in high school only.
It is therefore indeed disappointing that Giesecke and Tegnell have read and continue to read more into it.
Those distancing rules are like anything else, just arbitrary and unscientific.
They should just continue to focus on protecting their care homes better, with options for the inhabitants and their relatives to take more risks if they preferred to do that, prohibit singing in churches, prohibit indoor concerts and keeping nightclubs closed.
That’s it/all.

107139 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Jay Berger, #745 of 1278 🔗

I think all incl .Sweden have made a big mistake in not ending all SD and immediate return to normality when the excess deaths were normalized  in June. They could then with some justification have said that they had flattened the curve and saved the health system but then admit that total cases cannot be suppressed. The cases would have increased but great chance that the deaths would have been fewer as most low hanging fruits had already been picked. By only protecting the elderly and high risk group, a fast spread infection in the working age population in the summertime would have been the best strategy. And the quickest to get herd immunity. What is the meaning with SD if it only postpones the reckoning and how can winter with usual overcrowding in hospitals with flu cases be the best strategy?

106772 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #746 of 1278 🔗

It’s prudent to be cautious. The immunity threshold in Sweden is likely to be at an artificial level aided by social distancing.

By easing restrictions they may see an increase in cases for a short time until more immunity builds up to suppress the virus again.

Whatever happens I don’t expect them to panic.

106543 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 6, #747 of 1278 🔗

The problem we face …… my wife, whom I thought to have some common sense tells me that there were infection spikes after the Liverpool FC celebrations and the BLM rally in late June. She believes she saw it on the TV news. Of course there were no spikes and there was nothing on the TV news except a prediction that there would be. She refuses to believe me that she is wrong (but then when are wives wrong?) and I can’t help but think there are many others out there with a similar, twisted, perception of reality.

106547 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to Polemon2, 4, #748 of 1278 🔗

Just keep reminding her that hospitalisations are very low, deaths are very low – i.e. completely normal – despite the partial re-opening of society.

106550 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Polemon2, 4, #749 of 1278 🔗

The Mandela effect?

106593 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #750 of 1278 🔗

Good call, I’ve been looking into this recently and it’s completely fascinating. For all those that have succumbed to the brainwashing, wearing masks has always been normal. There was never a time when we did not do this.

106600 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard O, 6, #751 of 1278 🔗

Oceania is at war with East Asia,
Oceania has always been at war with East Asia

106741 ▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #752 of 1278 🔗

or that fake 4% have died of it

106826 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 2, #753 of 1278 🔗

Animal Farm . The stupid animals never can remember a time when they were less victimised than they are now.

107174 ▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Richard O, #754 of 1278 🔗

Yes, maybe we jumped timelines. Lockdown sceptics inhabit a different universe from the rest of humanity. Reality Transurfing / Quantum Jumping at its finest!

106575 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Polemon2, 3, #755 of 1278 🔗

I pointed out on another forum that the previous day there had only been under 400 reported Covid deaths un Europe out of a population of over 740 million people.

Some idiot actually replied “show that masks are working”

106602 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Polemon2, 1, #756 of 1278 🔗

Millions of them, unfortunately.

106643 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Polemon2, 4, #757 of 1278 🔗

There is truth in that. The MSM report ‘feared spikes’ from such events and ‘irresponsible mass gatherings putting everybody at risk’ and the majority of people just put two and two together and get 5 as intended. The truth is had there been even a scintilla of real world evidence of such a thing they would have been all over it, Interviewing football fans families who had died as a result of attending the match, ‘thousands of Cheltenham residents and racegoers killed by Covid due to it not being closed down’. That sort of thing. Instead, they have nothing, simply because there is nothing, and yet they still continue with the nonsense. Quite incredible.

106562 hat man, replying to hat man, 58, #758 of 1278 🔗

Breaking news
Berlin demo ban has been overturned:
(in German)

Organisers must have loudspeaker messages and marshalls ensuring SD, but no mask enforcement.


106584 ▶▶ DomW, replying to hat man, 17, #759 of 1278 🔗

I must confess to an involuntary shout of “Yes!” and a punch to the air when I read that just now. Made my day has that piece of news. Thank you for posting!

106597 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DomW, 9, #760 of 1278 🔗

Me too. Great news.

I have to hand it to ze Germans. Absolutely leading from the front.

106628 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 13, #761 of 1278 🔗

The boomers and Xers there were trained in critical thinking, especially so to smell and fight against any authoritarian, fascist or communist rat from the very beginning.

108094 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #762 of 1278 🔗

They always have, since 1939…

106599 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hat man, 2, #763 of 1278 🔗

Brilliant news!!!!

106605 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to hat man, 2, #764 of 1278 🔗


106679 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to hat man, 9, #765 of 1278 🔗

I hope the German people overturn their rulers then invade our shores in order to free us of our fascist overlords.

107181 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #766 of 1278 🔗

Great idea! Operation Sealion 2020! Maybe we sceptics could form a Home Guard to assist the invaders in taking over the country? “We shall help them on the beaches, we shall help them in the fields and in the streets…..”

106719 ▶▶ annie, replying to hat man, #767 of 1278 🔗

Hearty cheers.
Maybe they don’t want fo be identified as Hitler’s children after all?

106730 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to annie, 5, #768 of 1278 🔗

typical behaviour amongst modern day Germans. I remember living in Munich in c2002 and Bayern won the Champions League-the police issued an instruction before the game-no celebrating,dancing in the streets etc. It was ignored.

106817 ▶▶ watashi, replying to hat man, 3, #769 of 1278 🔗

fantastisch! wunderbar!

106566 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #770 of 1278 🔗

US DOJ getting after it on care home deaths:


Something going on.

Which one of our Police forces would start an investigation.

Is it worth writing to the Police Commissioners or ACPO to ask them to start an investigation?

106570 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 14, #772 of 1278 🔗


Picked this up from Alistair Haimes. Twitter. Always caveat as no confirming information but seems to be in the UK. Treat with certain caution but some of the comments confirm they have heard similar things. Strange that we do not have full information in the open about the vaccine trial.

 “I’m on a vaccine trial. Doctors saying that any safe vaccine before winter 2021 is virtually impossible. More likely start 2022. Only likely to provide partial immunity or reduce severity for limited period like flu jab. Those calling for lockdown till vaccine are delusional!
The problem is an increasing number of people think a vaccine will be a one off silver bullet and C19 will disappear, so want to lockdown completely till it arrives. It won’t be! And there won’t be emergency use of any vaccine. Full trials won’t even end till end summer 2021!
China/Russia using vaccines without safety tests! Talk of early vaccines is just wishful thinking. All I can tell you is my part of the trial doesn’t even end until July 2021. And Then assuming it works/is safe which no one seems mention, will take months after to be released.

106577 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 7, #773 of 1278 🔗

It’s only sense. And even these dates are optimistic.

106639 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 8, #774 of 1278 🔗

Don’t underestimate the insanity of governments. There are billions of doses of vaccine already being made and all it takes to start getting them into people is for politicians to change the rules. The WHO will probably give it their imprimatur.

I agree with what you said earlier that it’s advisable to wait a few years before having the vaccine, regardless of who has declared it “safe”, because it might take that long to shake out any issues.

Governments will want to vaccinate people mainly in order to continue to hide the truth that they have herd immunity anyway, and to take the credit for coming to the rescue.

106650 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 2, #775 of 1278 🔗

They could use up some of the test capacity as well, by insisting no one could qualify for the vaccine until they’d had two negative tests first.

106652 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #776 of 1278 🔗

Oh no, wait…

106617 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to swedenborg, 5, #777 of 1278 🔗

So all the media stories about a vaccine this year are smoke and mirrors to string the masses along thinking the restrictions will end soon, when the reality is that they were always going to be in place for many years.

106724 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, #778 of 1278 🔗

Correct and when the penny drops it will be too late.

106736 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Richard O, 4, #779 of 1278 🔗

had to laugh when the Russians announced their vaccine ready to go a couple of weeks ago our MSM turned instantly into anti-Vaxxers

106755 ▶▶ drrobin, replying to swedenborg, 1, #780 of 1278 🔗

Hope that chap on a trial watched Dr Sucharit Bhakdi, who provides anyone w/o immunology education an excellent intro to antibody & T-cell immunity, the positive value of vaccines where appropriate, putative risk vs benefit (tetanus vs SARS-CoV-2), & RNA vaccines.

Aside from specific vaccination concerns, I would far rather my immune system gained the benefits of seeing the virus which may be of value for the next.

woefully under reported lecture (as it requires reading subtitles)


106993 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to drrobin, 1, #781 of 1278 🔗

In theory your immune system should get some of the same benefits from the vaccine. But the vaccine is never quite the same as the real thing. In general there is no law that says one or the other is better but in this situation natural immunity has been successfully trialled on several billion more people than any of the vaccines.

106870 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to swedenborg, 2, #782 of 1278 🔗

How long have we waited for HIV and common cold vaccines? Delusional indeed!

106995 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #783 of 1278 🔗

HIV is a very different virus and much harder. Common colds are very similar to SARS2 (well the coronavirus ones anyway) however but nobody’s really bothered trying to make vaccines for them because they aren’t that severe. Oh wait.

106576 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #784 of 1278 🔗

Manchester Evening News: Anger as Trafford released from local lockdown rules against its wishes.

106588 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #785 of 1278 🔗

Local leaders are fast turning into the enemies of their constituents.

In Bradford and Kirklees, despite a few very easily identifiable pockets of “cases” and the majority of areas having zero, local councillors are insisting that either all the local authority area is freed simultaneously, or none at all.

106611 ▶▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #786 of 1278 🔗

I’m extremely wary of the devolution of powers (any) to local mayors and authorities. Most of these local politicians have miniscule mandates based on extremely low turnouts. They tend towards overreach and mission creep – anyone who saw how the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act was abused will attest to this – and they seem to be subject to little or no regulatory oversight. Given that local newspapers are now virtually extinct they can pretty much get away with anything.

106625 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #787 of 1278 🔗

I never realised the people of Trafford were entirely of one mind. Not a range of thoughts and views just one unified wish to remain incarcerated. How poor these journalists upbringing must have been.

106684 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 5, #788 of 1278 🔗

It’s not the people of Trafford from what I can understand reading the article, it’s the council who do not agree with central Government’s actions.

Local council want 2 more weeks of the lockdown.

The council is not your friend and no longer serve their communities.

106720 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #789 of 1278 🔗

And I thought councils were there to facilitate life with councillors there to represent the people!

Theyve all become drink on their perception of civil society and leadership. They can all fuck off.

106783 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #790 of 1278 🔗

“I’m from the council and I’m here to help”

106578 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 25, #791 of 1278 🔗

School report from Scotland.
NB it’s a comment from a Save Our Rights UK facebook thread.

We are in scotland, and our kids have already returned to school full time. They have been back a couple of weeks and it’s been eventful, to say the least. This is not every school, but seems widespread – no access to drinking water, having to spend alot of time outside (not knocking that, but the pouring rain sometimes for a long time parents have been pouring water out from their kids shoes) for distancing reasons, parents have poorly kids from being outside in the rain so long, sunburnt kids (same reason) bullying maskless kids, bullying kids who dont use sanitizer (bullying from teachers as well as students!), if the child has a symptoms they have to get tested then they can return if neg and if the parents decline, they have to stay off school for 2 weeks, one child didnt get his shoe laces tied when he asked cos of distancing and was left like that all day as he didnt want to ask another teacher (he had a disability too) some kids have been treated with discipline if they do not use sanitizer some have been made to use it when there parents say no, list is endless

106590 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 17, #792 of 1278 🔗

Disgrace, teachers and anyone else in authority should be ashamed.

Again 2 words – risk assessment

106595 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to stefarm, 4, #793 of 1278 🔗

Risk assessment would help in theory, but if the threat has been defined as ‘we’re all going to die’ then pretty much any mitigations will be seen as necessary and justifiable.

106592 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #794 of 1278 🔗

How is rubbing sanitiser on one’s hands supposed to protect one from a virus?

106659 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #795 of 1278 🔗

It’s magic!


106771 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to DavidC, #796 of 1278 🔗

It’s magical thinking.

106653 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #797 of 1278 🔗

What happened to washing hand with soap and water?

106656 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, 2, #798 of 1278 🔗

Well I guess you have to stay in your bubble. I’m waiting for the call for all classrooms to be fitted with handbasins, makes rather more sense than some of the other extreme measures? All sorts of possibilities there.

106769 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Victoria, 2, #799 of 1278 🔗

Washing one’s hands with soap and water works.

107067 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Victoria, 5, #800 of 1278 🔗

It’s the oddest thing. Despite the message from the beginning having been “wash your hands properly with soap and water, but if you can’t then sanitiser is better than nothing”, sanitiser has become such a religious ceremony that people seem to actually prefer it to soap and water.

I don’t understand it. People are odd. I haven’t used hand sanitiser once this year. Unfortunately, I’m now dead.

Oh, wait. Not dead – the other thing.

107135 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 1, #801 of 1278 🔗

You’ve just explained why the gesture of a zombie smearing its hands with hand gunk seems oddly familiar.
It recalls Catholics automatically dipping a finger in the holy water on entering a church.
No criticism of Catholics intended. I’m just nauseated by worship of Covid, the worst false god in history.

107235 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #802 of 1278 🔗

Makes the worship of Baal or Asherah look sane and rational.

Still waiting for God to smite the zombies and the likes of Johnson, Sturgeon, Hancock, Kim Jong Dan, that weirdo from New Zealand, etc.

107232 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 1, #803 of 1278 🔗

Where I work I’ve been left speechless by the following odd practices:

  • sanitising their hands every time they pass by a dispenser
  • sanitising their hands even after they’ve come from the toilets and have washed their hands.

I have the strong urge to record an announcement: WARNING EXCESSIVE USE OF HAND SANITISER IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH!!!

106661 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #804 of 1278 🔗

100 children across Edinburgh (pop 550,000 or so) have been ‘told’ to isolate.

106667 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #805 of 1278 🔗

Purely anecdotal but a fellow colleague of someone I live with (ahem OH) has decided to take the day off to have himself, wife and 2 children aged 2 and 6 tested as the 6 year old has a snotty nose.

A 3 hour trip for a completely pointless test which apparently was a waste of time as the youngest kicked up a fuss when faced with a nose swab.

106718 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 5, #806 of 1278 🔗

A d I don’t blame the youngest one little bit.

106831 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to stefarm, 5, #807 of 1278 🔗

The 2 year old sounds like the most sensible one of the bunch.

107236 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, #808 of 1278 🔗

Most 6 year-olds have snotty noses!

106811 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #809 of 1278 🔗

sounds like child abuse to me

106585 LGDTLK, 4, #810 of 1278 🔗


Heads up. Local unelected Birmingham quangocrat answering questions at 14:30. Those more eloquent and better able to quote sceptic stats than me – here’s your chance to skewer one of ’em.

106604 PastImperfect, 12, #811 of 1278 🔗

My son, who is very active fighting the good fight and had mentioned the almost complete effectiveness of HCQ in the early stages of the infection. Someone pointed him to this study by a couple of Oxford ‘professors’:


This study was conducted as part of the “Recovery Trial” for Covid patients and, surprise, surprise showed that “T here was also no evidence of beneficial effects on hospital stay duration or other outcomes”. They cannot be classed as real scientists because they must have known what the results were going to be – and for political purposes. And, of course the “study” was financed by, amongst others, the Bill and Melinda Gates and the UK taxpayer.

This is an excellent example of the disinformation that is rife on social media..

106616 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, #812 of 1278 🔗

Jesus wept. The brainwashing of our young continues:


106627 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Bart Simpson, 15, #813 of 1278 🔗

Wearing a Mask Says I Love You???? OMG. I should publish a competing book: Making You Wear a Mask Says I Hate You.

106655 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 10, #814 of 1278 🔗

I’ve been thinking about anti-masking poster campaigns that might have some effect on a university campus. Nobody likes having their beliefs attacked, so it would need to take a non-aggressive approach. I wondered about a series of photographs of nice normal faces, a different one on each poster, with the slogan: I miss your face.

106666 ▶▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Alethea, 10, #815 of 1278 🔗

No, attacking beliefs only results in doubling down. Use their existing beliefs to offer a counter position and get them thinking in broader terms. I’ve been asking younger family members to research the amount of plastic waste all this is generating; do they know where their designer mask was made – sweat shop by any chance?; and that cutsey cotton floral fabric, where did that originate and what wage was the worker paid to produce it? Then you can hit them with the ‘face masks don’t work’…

106701 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to LuluJo, 5, #816 of 1278 🔗

That’s a good idea. Plus what about asking what happens to cloth masks – do they know that you simply can’t wash them at 30-40 degrees? What happens when they inhale the bobbles and loose fibres?

106801 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #817 of 1278 🔗

And all that extra washing, wasting water and energy etc., oh my!

106702 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to LuluJo, 4, #818 of 1278 🔗

Yes, good idea. Out virtue the virtue signalers!

106951 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Alethea, 1, #819 of 1278 🔗

Great idea!

106668 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #820 of 1278 🔗

… Fear You ?

106696 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #821 of 1278 🔗

Go for it!!

106670 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #822 of 1278 🔗

Wearing a mask says, “Mmmf, mmf, mff mff.”

106687 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #823 of 1278 🔗

Hmm, I tempted to leave a review on Amazon.

to the author, fuck off you useless child abusing waste of oxygen.

All feedback from you all greatly appreciated.

106690 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #824 of 1278 🔗

Jen Welter – who runs “Grrridiron Girls” camps for children and was the first female coach in the National Football League – said Cuomo’s “informative and human” approach to “troubling times” inspired her to find a “positive, proactive way” for kids to see masks as “part of the solution and not a punishment.

107292 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to stefarm, #825 of 1278 🔗

Well NY has had well in excess of 400,000 people flee in little over a month; some days 12 shootings are being reported in 11 hours. An 11-year old shot recently in Brooklyn, and a 1-year old child was recently shot dead at a family gathering, though opinions vary as to whether his life mattered or not. Yes, kids are experiencing “troubling times”. That really accurately describes it.

106738 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #826 of 1278 🔗

Not hugging or kissing people you love also says I love you too then I guess.

106803 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #827 of 1278 🔗

And let’s not forget that other classic, https://www.amazon.com/dp/1951287312/

106630 Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, 4, #828 of 1278 🔗

Published 28th Aug. “A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines”. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu/consultation-document-changes-to-human-medicine-regulations-to-support-the-rollout-of-covid-19-vaccines

106657 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Laura Gallagher, 10, #829 of 1278 🔗

I’m getting my jab from Billy down the end of Gas Street, he says anybody can do it, and he’s dead cheap…

Vaccinators who are not registered healthcare professionals
 It will also be apparent in what we say about workforce expansion that someone other than a registered healthcare professional may actually be administering unlicensed vaccines – and as a basic issue of fairness, we think they should benefit from the same immunity from civil liability as a registered healthcare professional who is performing the same role, if the person who is not a healthcare professional is following one of the proposed new protocols.

106662 ▶▶▶ Laura Gallagher, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #830 of 1278 🔗

I’d rather take my chances with Billy too 🙂

106863 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Sam Vimes, #831 of 1278 🔗

In his spare time from doing dodgy MOTs? How much for a vaccination chit but no jab?

106694 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Laura Gallagher, 7, #832 of 1278 🔗

No vaccines of any type for me. I wonder if the lies of the past 5 months will put many people off vaccines and cause a lack of trust in medicine and doctors.

106807 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to wendy, 3, #833 of 1278 🔗

let’s hope so. let’s hope they might look beyond the vaccine damage deniers propaganda and will do a little research and find the plague of corruption that is rife in the world of big pharma and all the lies they perpetuate.

106939 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to wendy, 2, #834 of 1278 🔗

It’s already happening big time in Germany.
Therefire, the press has now decided to fight back, but it still can’t refrain from framing and diffamating the critics and their criticism when doing so rather than discussing it soberly.
Which will, of course, only increase the numbers of people becoming sceptical and refusing the rushed vaccines.

106788 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Laura Gallagher, 11, #835 of 1278 🔗

I spotted this today as well, Laura. The government (or its puppet masters) are just steam-rollering along with their agenda towards compulsory vaccinations, regardless of what’s actually happening. Hopefully they’re arrogance will get more people asking questions.

I had a look at the preamble to the consultation paper – apparent it’s necessary because “ COVID-19 is the biggest threat this country has faced in peacetime history ” and “ [e]ffective COVID-19 vaccines will be the best way to deal with the pandemic “. Online submissions are invited until 18 September 2020.

The consultation covers:
* authorising temporary supply of an unlicensed product
* civil liability and immunity
* expanding the workforce eligible to administer vaccinations
* promoting vaccines
* making provisions for wholesale dealing of vaccines

All of these should put the fear of [insert deity of choice] up everyone.

106852 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Quernus, 5, #836 of 1278 🔗

Someone should just mention Thalidomide to these loons. Not a vaccine I know, but I’ll bet it was tested for longer than any covid vaccine will be.

106945 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Quernus, 2, #837 of 1278 🔗

Mandatory Covid vaccination will mean definite emigration for me.
Sweden will become very crowded indeed then.

106950 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, #838 of 1278 🔗

We don’t know if it will be mandatory here in Sweden yet…

106792 ▶▶ Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, 1, #839 of 1278 🔗

One petition I have been following now over 98.000 signed https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442

106957 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Laura Gallagher, 1, #840 of 1278 🔗

Thanks for the link. There is so much in there that should be truly frightening to any right minded person.

If I’ve read the below correct, they even want to allow all vaccine manufacturers the ability to advertise their vaccines !!!???

Currently there is a prohibition on promoting an unlicensed medicine to healthcare professionals and the public. The UK government is proposing that this prohibition is disapplied to allow (subject to the other restrictions in the HMRs ) advertising of any temporarily authorised products under regulation 174, including a COVID-19 vaccine.

106634 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #841 of 1278 🔗

Don’t know if this has been posted over last couple of days but here it is anyway:


From the paper:

“The paper’s conclusion is that the data trends observed above likely indicate that nonpharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) – such as lockdowns, closures, travel restrictions, stay-home orders, event bans, quarantines, curfews, and mask mandates – do not seem to affect virus transmission rates overall.
Why? Because those policies have varied in their timing and implementation across countries and states, but the trends in outcomes do not.”

106674 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #842 of 1278 🔗

Some interesting stats where masks may be increasing infections when mask mandates have increased:


106703 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ozzie, 8, #843 of 1278 🔗

Noticed the increasing illnesses and infections being reported in areas of mask wearing. Ha did reported to be anecdotally in the past few weeks from GP etc.

Not being medical but my theory is this:

  • as you breath normally without a mask you are getting more oxygen
  • more oxygen is proven to help your body’s ability to fight disease, clear out the crap from cells etc
  • the viral bits and pieces that are detected on testing are, according to the exosome theory, (is that right? It has been discussed on here in the past by some pretty knowledgeable people) the crap your body is getting rid of as it has been used to fight off invaders and is now finished with a sit’s job is done
  • as you body is pretty healthy it this viral junk is at a level that low it is not detectable anymore
  • put on a mask, especially for a long time, and your oxygen levels lower just enough for the body to stop any extra jobs like clear out cells, fight off invaders etc
  • as you keep breathing in more and more of the shit that is now trapped in the mask that were originally got rid of but trapped, the levels of crap build up and reach a level that the tests can detect
  • this then makes you sick as the body’s defences are no longer working correctly

Sound plausible?

106721 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #844 of 1278 🔗

Or, to put it another way, there is a biological reason we like to breathe fresh air and we dislike having our breathing constricted.

106791 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #845 of 1278 🔗

Good enough to justify a research grant if you can devise a test for the hypothesis and get a medic to submit it…

106830 ▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #846 of 1278 🔗

Don’t worry AG, big tech has got it covered (sorry for the pun):


I checked my calendar and it is definitely not April 1st.

107050 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Old Bill, 4, #847 of 1278 🔗

From the article:

Any tech company selling coronavirus-related products deserves a heavy amount of questioning and skepticism, and so far, LG hasn’t proven its mask is effective or safe. LG’s press release actually doesn’t make any claims at all that the mask can help stop the transmission of the coronavirus, nor does it make any claims about the efficacy of its filtering abilities. The sales pitch is purely about “clean air” and nothing else.
The CDC’s mask guidelines state, “Masks with exhalation valves or vents should NOT be worn to help prevent the person wearing the mask from spreading COVID-19 to others,” which would seem to poke holes in LG’s mask design theory. A HEPA filter can stop respiratory particles (so does a normal N95 mask), but LG’s press release only says the mask will “take in clean, filtered air”— it doesn’t say anything about filtering exhalations.

So: buy an expensive, battery-powered, non-disposable face nappy that enables you to breathe, which you can do for free without a face nappy, while not protecting you or anybody else from Covid, which is supposed to be the purpose of a face nappy.
No doubt some zombies will buy one. Hope it chokes them.

106649 richard riewer, 1, #848 of 1278 🔗

Beginning at 11:00 an interview with Ferguson, minutes later a nasty Hancock, and on and on, an interview with a GAVI representative. Then the New Jersey Governor, a right berk. Arresting people on the beaches on the Jersey Shore.

106654 Kelly deacons, replying to Kelly deacons, 38, #849 of 1278 🔗

Just back from Morrisons,unmasked shoppers nudging up to 50%,hoorah.Also struck by the unmasked striking up conversations,smiling,and really trying to make the shopping trips pleasant,normal,and away from the misery of past months.
Gregg’s,where people have rigidly stuck to 2 customers at a time changed,about six of us in shop,most unmasked.
Really feeling more hopeful.
However,buses still seem to be carrying the miserable masked.!

106671 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Kelly deacons, 26, #850 of 1278 🔗

Come to Otley! We have a lady who not only gets on the bus without a mask but then proceeds to go to the rear and lights up a fag! Warms the cockles of your heart!

106676 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #851 of 1278 🔗

Well done that woman!

106682 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #852 of 1278 🔗

Total legend!

106683 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Harry hopkins, 15, #853 of 1278 🔗

My old self, pre-lockdown, would have hated her for doing that, but now I applaud her.

106688 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Mr Dee, 11, #854 of 1278 🔗

Yes it’s funny isn’t it. Perhaps she wouldn’t have done it pre lockdown. Perhaps she too feels angry and it is a way of kicking back

106704 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Kelly deacons, 8, #855 of 1278 🔗

Wish I could say the same Kelly. Local Sainsbury’s in Manchester suburb on Thursday nearly 100% muzzled. A lot wearing them OUTSIDE IN THE GLORIOUS SUNSHINE!!!!.

106744 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Kelly deacons, 9, #856 of 1278 🔗

i did an Aldi this morning .. everyone wearing a mask . including a little boy aged about 7. welcome to zombie world

106869 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Kelly deacons, 2, #857 of 1278 🔗

That’s good news. Whereabouts are you?

107038 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Kelly deacons, 3, #858 of 1278 🔗

I’ll be making an ungagged trip to Lidl in the next couple of days. Last time I was there – about 3 weeks ago – I was the only one of two without a muzzle. It will be interesting to see if there is a change. I did brave the big Sainsbury’s a couple of days ago (I’m prepping for winter!) and every single person in there, apart from myself and half the staff, were gagged. I didn’t have any trouble though.

107242 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kelly deacons, 1, #859 of 1278 🔗

But let’s face it, going by bus isn’t the most enjoyable experience even without a mask!

106673 wendy, replying to wendy, 57, #860 of 1278 🔗

I am just home after my 90 mile round trip to see my dad for 30 minutes through the locked double glazed patio doors of his care home. I took my aunt, dads sister who is 83 today. We sat outside in the rain talking to my almost 87 year old dad via my mobile phone and a simple mobile with a speaker we bought dad to have on the inside. Dad kept asking us to come inside out of the rain. He said a couple of times “ if it’s raining why don’t you come in”.

My aunt had asked me to order a Yorkshire white rose face mask which had arrived and she put on today to show Dad. She is pleased with it and pleased she is going to help stop the spread of the virus. FFS this is an 83 year old woman who has been to Aldi and in my car to the care home locked doors and no where else for 5 months. My aunt isn’t bothered but I feel so angry that elderly people have been left feeling they could spread the virus.

My Dad is clearly deteriorating, he is fine with recognising us and chatting about the past but he looks depressed and listless. I took a birthday card that I had written for my sisters up coming 60th birthday. He couldn’t write ‘Dad’ and a carer had to help him. He has deteriorated so much and another resident, that I used to take along for walks with Dad and I, came to sit in the empty chair next to Dad. In 5 months he is almost unrecognisable. I am certain both their deterioration is from not having family around all this time.

I cried all the drive home on the M62. I feel so powerless to do anything.

106681 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to wendy, 24, #861 of 1278 🔗

These bastards should be put on trial

106685 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Cecil B, 15, #862 of 1278 🔗

Yes but it is our Government that has caused care homes to be so afraid and old people the same. I am split with feeling angry my Dads care home could do more and also understanding their fear. The government could have stopped the fear and still could but no. It is they who should go on trial.

106705 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to wendy, 7, #863 of 1278 🔗

We all have a free will, we chose, or not chose to do something, fear is not a defence

106751 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Cecil B, 3, #864 of 1278 🔗

Well yes and they are independent businesses so can make their own judgements.

106707 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendy, 15, #865 of 1278 🔗

This us criminal.
Please don’t cry any more. You did your best against these fiends. You are a just person. It will be remembered,

106713 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to annie, 18, #866 of 1278 🔗

Thank you Annie, your kindness made me cry a little more. Thank goodness we have this website. Thank goodness for Toby, Simon Dolan, Carl Heneghan and so many more who are trying to turn things around.

106715 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to wendy, 25, #867 of 1278 🔗

No-one….absolutely no-one….should have to do that when visiting an elderly person. How on earth they must feel, locked away behind glass with relatives having to speak to them from outside….it’s utter madness. We often say there will be a reckoning and it will come, in God’s own time, but I don’t think He will be particularly slow when the party starts.

106726 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to thedarkhorse, 14, #868 of 1278 🔗

Thank you darkhorse. More crying for me.

I think a care home is being sued by the daughter of a resident who died following other people being discharged there from hospital back in March when the hospitals were panicked into clearing out the wards for the surge of Covid sick that didn’t materialise. It’s not the care home but the policy makers that need to be sued. It’s making care homes very cautious and until the government stop the fear more lives will be ruined and lost.

106805 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to wendy, 11, #869 of 1278 🔗

Oh Wendy. No words to express myself adequately. Where are the lawyers who are usually so quick to scream ‘human rights violation’? I do not believe a single human being would choose your Dad’s experience for themselves or anyone else. The decision makers are devoid of any shred of humanity.

106820 ▶▶ James007, replying to wendy, 11, #870 of 1278 🔗

Very moved by your post.
The mental health damage caused by this madness has been immense, especially the old, and the very young.

It feels like we are powerless. All we can do is to resist this government as much as we can, argue and campaign against what they are doing. It is morally wrong!

106875 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to James007, 8, #871 of 1278 🔗

Charlie and James thank you. Perhaps I should write to Simon Dolan. I have sort of assumed he will know but it would be more evidence for his legal challenge. The measures are not in proportion to the risk in any way

106885 ▶▶ TJN, replying to wendy, 7, #872 of 1278 🔗

The story of your Dad makes me want to cry. Literally, I’ve just wiped a tear as I type. And to think, this story is being repeated tens, hundreds of thousands of times over.

There’s a lot goes on in the human psyche, via the subconscious, which we know almost nothing about – especially as the conscious mind recedes and something deeper takes over. I feel sure that your Dad knows you care very much, and that whatever is happening is beyond your control, but you are doing your best.

106922 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TJN, 11, #873 of 1278 🔗

A friends dads chemo was cancelled half way through.The cancer became terminal.He was placed in a hospital and not allowed visitors;he died suddenly a couple of weeks ago on his own.Now the friend is beside herself not having a chance to even say goodbye.
This is the world we live in now.

106946 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #874 of 1278 🔗

That is so sad. These stories and experiences need to be heard widely. We must do our best to ensure the costs of this are counted.

106958 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to James007, 4, #875 of 1278 🔗

Yes, a terrible story – again one repeated thousands of times.

The costs need to be more than counted.

How I feel right now, the people responsible must be identified, tracked down, and brought to justice – if it takes, five, ten, twenty years, they must never sleep easy again until they’ve paid for what they’ve done.

106970 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #876 of 1278 🔗

I can’t think of the words to express my feelings on stories such as this. There are no words.

And we lockdown sceptics are called ‘granny killers’.

107039 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #877 of 1278 🔗

I call that murder.

106935 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to TJN, 4, #878 of 1278 🔗

Thank you TNJ, I really do think he knows we care and are doing our best and I have to hold on to that. And yes it is going on for so many families, there are around 450,000 people living in care homes all with families trying to support them. The stories which break me most are of the very elderly husbands and wives separated. These poor people don’t have long left. They don’t have time to waste. A 90 year old living alone in the community brings no risk to a care home.

its very hard because I can’t remove him and support him myself. When people get to the point of needing a care home they have complex 24 hour needs. He isn’t distressed and I have to keep telling myself he is better living there but I so wish I could do more for him. My guilt really in not being able to support him in what might be the last months of his life.

106967 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to wendy, 3, #879 of 1278 🔗


There’s no need for guilt – regret perhaps, but not guilt. They are very different.

From your posts it seems that you are wiser than me, because I feel overwhelming anger. But that’s not a good emotion for the position you are in, which maybe you know.

107147 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to wendy, 2, #880 of 1278 🔗

Read your story a little earlier and found it most upsetting. Then realised I just couldn’t get it off my mind so came back to reply. We put our loved ones in care homes as we feel that is the best place for them when they can no longer live at home, but sadly they are now totally neglected in this covid age. I know your experience is very common. A friend of mine has his father in a care home and can only visit occasionally ‘social distanced’ in the home garden. Kisses from kith and kin have been totally ignored. Episodes like this just reinforce the absolutely awful world we are now living in. Keep smiling, though that is getting harder and harder.

107200 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to davews, #881 of 1278 🔗

davews thank you. So very glad we have each other on this site

106930 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to wendy, 7, #882 of 1278 🔗

Social distancing is torture.
Care home residents and their relatives should have the option to take more risk aka get into closer contact if they wished to do so.

106984 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to wendy, 3, #883 of 1278 🔗

Read this guidance:


Some lines:

  • the likely practical effectiveness of social distancing measures between the visitor and the residents, having regard to the cognitive status of the resident and their communication needs
  • where the healthcare needs of the individual cannot be met by socially distant visits, whether there are sufficient infection-control measures in place to protect the residents, staff and visitors, to allow the visit to take place

The factors relevant to decisions about particular individuals or groups of residents include the following, in addition to those factors above relating to a care home’s general visiting policy:

  • the benefits to a person’s wellbeing by having a particular visitor or visitors
  • the extent of the harm that will be experienced by the resident from a lack of visitation or whether the individual is at the end of their life

They can put on requirements such as masks, gloves, make you all stand in the garden etc but cannot point blank refuse a visit.

107207 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #884 of 1278 🔗

They currently have a staff member tested positive, likely a false positive, so can’t even negotiate this with them. I have printed it off and will be discussing it with them once the positive test crap clears up. Thank you for your help. I know you have shown me this before.

107015 ▶▶ Lili, replying to wendy, 2, #885 of 1278 🔗

I don’t know your circumstances, Wendy, but I’d already decided that I couldn’t see my father in a care home (I’ve worked for them and even the better ones are grim). The stories I’ve read during the last 6 months have only stiffened my resolve.

107203 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Lili, 1, #886 of 1278 🔗

I know Lili. He’s got very complex needs and there is just me and I live 90 miles away. I have a sister but she is totally sold on the fear fraud so she is no help at all.

107196 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendy, #887 of 1278 🔗

This is just terrible. Poor you, poor your Dad….

106675 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 41, #888 of 1278 🔗

As with everyone else my experience of the past six months has been holidays cancelled, pubs closed, hotel reservations cancelled, shops closed, restaurants closed

This has been ‘over arched’ (whatever that means), by wanker politicians, BBC propaganda and gestapo policing

Like most gulag inmates I’m quite used to it now


Eat out to help, Fuck off
Go to shops, Fuck off
Book hotels, Fuck off
Go to the pub, Fuck off
Go to a restaurant, Fuck off
Book holidays, Fuck off
Pay taxes, Fuck off
Obey your laws, Fuck off

Hope that hasn’t left any doubt about my position on this

106678 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cecil B, 11, #889 of 1278 🔗

Hmm, I sense some push back from you.

106709 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 11, #890 of 1278 🔗

I’m fucking off to Morrisons in a bit to enjoy the covid fuck off shuffle

106711 ▶▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to stefarm, 4, #891 of 1278 🔗

Ah that made me laugh =]

106692 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cecil B, 14, #892 of 1278 🔗

Get tested Fuck off
Use public transport Fuck off
Go back to work Fuck off

106695 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Richard O, 4, #893 of 1278 🔗

Dare I mention muzzles….?

106700 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to T. Prince, 4, #894 of 1278 🔗

Yes you may

106699 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Richard O, 10, #895 of 1278 🔗

Get vaccinated, fuck off
Vote, fuck off

106848 ▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Cecil B, 17, #896 of 1278 🔗

I had an argument with a neighbour this morning after she told me smugly that they had gone to a local restaurant to ‘help out by eating out’.
“Did you pay the full price?”
“Yes, but with money off for the £10.00 voucher”
“So you did not pay the full price, then”
“Would you have gone if you had not got a voucher?”
“No, but we went to help out”
“No, you went to have a cheaper meal, that has to be paid for by taxes”

106903 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Judith Day, 3, #897 of 1278 🔗

Choking on a face nappy would be too good for them

106974 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, 6, #898 of 1278 🔗

Black dye in the water at beauty spots. Fuck off.
Drones labelling and shaming walkers on Curbar Edge. Fuck off.

108114 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Basics, 1, #899 of 1278 🔗

Definitely an upvote for you, for mentioning those two. May I add a double-fuck-off for the stinker in charge who said he was going to send officers to rummage through my shopping trolley. If you’re reading this, you bastard, go fuck yourself; and don’t expect me to help any of your filth who get into difficulties.

Don’t bother whining that I’ll come asking for your help if I get stuck on the motorway or get burgled; you’re never there anyway.

106680 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #900 of 1278 🔗

DNA altering vaccine. Be excited it’s going to be excellent – it’s a completely new way to vaccinate. The extraordinary shallowness of tv punditry is here for all to see. A 2 minute video of an expert idiot bluffing her way through the vaccine sales pitch on national TV.


106693 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Basics, #901 of 1278 🔗

Genuine or a parody? Looks genuine but cannot believe it.

106716 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gerry Mandarin, #902 of 1278 🔗

Believe genuine. Going from comments below it. Agree looks like parody.

106740 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 2, #903 of 1278 🔗

Genetically modified humans, oh goody. Seeing the damage done by a bit psychology of is enough for me thanks.

106745 ▶▶ Laura Gallagher, replying to Basics, 2, #904 of 1278 🔗

Published 28th Aug. If you wish to express your opinions the consultation closes Sept 18th. “A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines”. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu/consultation-document-changes-to-human-medicine-regulations-to-support-the-rollout-of-covid-19-vaccines?fbclid=IwAR1EIvSuXEtkiStFhE9WYbrPFoyEPeHvRMdzyNr-jfSDGotBJ_QflO7vVSc

106689 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #905 of 1278 🔗

Good for Simon Dolan calling out the Ryan Air Hazmat suit debacle.


These buffons sat on a plane and watched the over head cabins be sanitised! Whatever happened to air borne black death?! A staged incident says Simon. I agree.

106778 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 3, #906 of 1278 🔗

Indeed. Vaguely off topic – does anyone have experience of trying to claim a mask exemption flying on Ryanair, or any other airline. Ryanair website says you need a doctor’s cert, which is in conflict with law, but I don’t know if they have the legal right to do that. Mabe it depends on whether they are a “common carrier” airline or not.

106828 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Julian, 1, #907 of 1278 🔗

Maybe as their are an Irish carrier. In Ireland they’ve been asked for GP certs, but the GPS are being pressured not to issue any

106698 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 8, #908 of 1278 🔗

Reminder to sign or distribute (98,645 signatures)

Prevent any restrictions on those who refuse a Covid-19 vaccination

107036 ▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, #909 of 1278 🔗

Very close to the crucial 100,000 now.

106708 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #910 of 1278 🔗

Sky News Australia

Sky News host Rita Panahi says the leftist media’s hate and disdain for US President Donald Trump is such they are willing to have lives lost which could have been saved through the usage of the drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ).


106758 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #911 of 1278 🔗

Well said and definitely true, just as they would rather people were killed in rioting than they weren’t.

106774 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 7, #912 of 1278 🔗

Whatever one thinks of Trump, what is worrying is that people support or oppose things on the basis of who else supports or opposes them, rather than making their own mind up on the facts. It’s one thing to do this if it’s something fairly subjective, like what films you choose to watch or books to read, but if you’re in the realm of science and you start pushing views based on this kind of “logic” then it’s basically the death of science.

106800 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 4, #913 of 1278 🔗

This is a good video on YouTube I saw a few days ago where they were outside a college in the US and asked them to comment on these Trump quotes they gave them. The students were scathing about the comments which were actually from Dems.


106837 ▶▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to JohnB, 2, #914 of 1278 🔗

There has been something similar done here; quotes from Labour people being said to have come from Tories, and with the same result as in the USA.

106841 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Julian, 1, #915 of 1278 🔗

Yes, it’s related to the logical fallacy of “appeal to authority”.

106717 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 29, #916 of 1278 🔗

Brilliant quote on Simon Dolan’s twitter feed

If you take a 5-day treatment of HCQ for coronavirus, your heart will explode.

But if you take HCQ for months/years for lupus, arthritis or malaria, its safe

This is the idiocracy the media is pushing

106748 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, 11, #917 of 1278 🔗

How a false hydroxychloroquine narrative was created
“The message is that generic, inexpensive hydroxychloroquine is dangerous and should not be used to treat a potentially fatal disease, Covid-19, for which there are no (other) reliable treatments.

Hydroxychloroquine has been used safely for 65 years in many millions of patients. And so the message was crafted that the drug is safe for its other uses, but dangerous when used for Covid-19 . It doesn’t make sense, but it seems to have worked.

Were these acts carefully orchestrated? You decide.
Might these events have been planned to keep the pandemic going? To sell expensive drugs and vaccines to a captive population? Could these acts result in prolonged economic and social hardship, eventually transferring wealth from the middle class to the very rich? Are these events evidence of a conspiracy?”


106763 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Victoria, 6, #918 of 1278 🔗

Helped greatly by HCQ being “endorsed” by Trump, so easy to whip up opposition from the herd to anything he endorses (I’m not making a comment here on Trump himself, just on the reaction he engenders).

106765 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Victoria, 13, #919 of 1278 🔗

There was definitely an orchestrated attempt to discredit the drug because of Trump’s advocacy. A lot of this sort of orchestration takes place well out of public view, via dinner parties, lunches, private meetings, editorial meetings and private messaging. Journalists know their mission is to bring down Trimp, so they know how to play the story once given cues by leading players.

106779 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Victoria, 5, #920 of 1278 🔗

I wonder if Sweden has done any Hydroxychloroquine studies? I would also suggest we look to Sweden if any vaccines do become available. If they think they are useful I think we can trust them. If they think they are not useful and would not give to their population then that is the way we go with this too. I wouldn’t be keen at all personally.

106849 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to wendy, 6, #921 of 1278 🔗

Sweden will probably be very careful with regard to those likely botched vaccines, as it has suffered from having 500 brain damaged children from vaccinating against the swine flu in 2009.
Arguably, that was a worse disaster than its 6000 Corona deaths, in light of the total years
of quality life lost.
Probably why they kept their senses in the first place and are still not losing them.

106937 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, #922 of 1278 🔗

Everyone in Sweden was offered the swine flu vaccine and I think there was a 62% take up? Imagine how many more narcolepsy cases we would have had if everyone had been vaccinated…

106940 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendy, #923 of 1278 🔗

I need to double-check, but I believe Sweden did a short trial then said HCQ did not work, however they trialled it on its own, instead of the recommended protocol which also includes zinc and azithromycin..

106764 Mark, replying to Mark, 21, #924 of 1278 🔗

Labour’s shadow business minister, Lucy Powell, said no one should be forced “to choose between their health and their job” and the government should “categorically rule out” any campaign suggesting people could be out of a job if they refused to return to the office .”

Coronavirus: Campaign to encourage workers back to offices
There should be no forgiveness of the PM or the Cabinet for their failing the country over this coronapanic, but this is a timely reminder that the political opposition are, if anything, worse panickers.

This, from Labour, is the very worst kind of cynically dishonest, emotionally manipulative posturing, harming the nation and the real interests of those they encourage in resisting a recovery from panic and return to normality. It’s from the same stable as the “money over lives” and “acceptable number of deaths” hogwash that the likes of the Labour and LibDem parties were pushing at the crucial time in February and March, when the vital and common sense concept of herd immunity was rendered politically taboo, forcing the government to follow the road of panicky over-reaction instead.

106770 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Mark, 9, #925 of 1278 🔗

Yes Labour and the left would seem to have done their best to bring the government down. And that I find unforgivable given the extra suffering it is causing. Labour could push the government to cut the fear and reassure people the virus is not dangerous but no they double down on the fear.

106798 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #926 of 1278 🔗

Indeed, a panicky over-reaction that has led to people not wanting to go back to the office, so a mess partly of their own making

We’re giving our staff the choice, because we can do so without it harming our business, but that won’t always be the case for every business

106815 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 9, #927 of 1278 🔗

The whole furlough concept was wrong – it merely kicks the can down the road, and as we can see, creates something akin to an inverse moral hazard (extreme risk aversion at no cost to oneself). Time to starve the public sector out, starting at the very top of the civil service, NHS trust and university admin ‘blobs’. Major Panic called it last night – the 50% who won’t return should be sacked. I joked that would be harsh by Jack Welch (GE) standards – but then Welch had a continual 10% bottom-end attrition, whereas in the public sector, the bottom 10% are often the ones who get promoted to the top!

106824 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 13, #928 of 1278 🔗

In part furlough was a bribe to ensure compliance with the first national lockdown. Worked an absolute treat as well.

106899 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to Richard O, 3, #929 of 1278 🔗

Getting £1000+ a month for doing nothing, no wonder the slave class are praying for a second wave.

107034 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, #930 of 1278 🔗

Bang on.

107287 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #931 of 1278 🔗

On the contrary, the furlough payments were state compensation for a state imposed prohibition on earning; much work in CS, as elsewhere, takes place in front of a computer terminal and is easily performed from home; it is inefficient to require a ‘return to work’ , if by that is meant in a physical place; remote working, hot desking etc have also been common for years, just as elsewhere; the CS is just as susceptible to management fads as industry, and for a time required 10% of personnel in each unit to be marked ‘below par’ and paid less; the reporting, grading and pay structures have always been more objective and rigorous than those in industry, where blagging your way to a bonus is rife. Kahneman’s work on the correlation of pay with performance among investment managers springs to mind.

106782 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #932 of 1278 🔗

Looking to talk to people who have Long-Covid symptoms but never tested positive / couldn’t get a test. Is that you? Drop me an email or dm! #LongCovid

I can see this psychosomatic ‘Long-Covid’ becoming a new bit of pseudoscience; ‘evidence’ that can be conjured up via the power of propaganda and suggestion; that can be pointed to for an indefinite time after the epidemic is over.

And those feelings of breathlessness and fatigue have nothing to do with cowering indoors for six months eating cheese, then deliberately restricting your breathing when you’re out, then?

106794 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #933 of 1278 🔗

It very much has the feel of deaths now no longer doing the job, “cases” somewhat discredited, what else can we use to keep this going.

106802 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Julian, 2, #934 of 1278 🔗

Mhmm yes it does doesn’t it. And if there is a grasping at straws to keep this going I think people will see it for what it is, an attempt to destabilise the government.

106810 ▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to wendy, 4, #935 of 1278 🔗

An attempt by the government to destabilise the government.
It’s an interesting thought.
I see what you are getting at though.

106816 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #936 of 1278 🔗

Yes seeing this all the time now.

Eventually a zealot will agree deaths and hospital rates look good. Then they pull out:

‘But look, we still don’t know everything about this virus and people are suffering long term health issues, never fully recovering ”

Long term? We’ve only been talking about this for 6 months.

106834 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #937 of 1278 🔗

People are about to suffer long term fucking death issues, through not being treated, you blind fuckwit. Them, not you, BeBop.

106858 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #938 of 1278 🔗

Hearing people claim some made up ‘long covid’ because they feel a bit tired is, well, tiring. I’m tired half the week, it’s called working for a living.

106944 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #939 of 1278 🔗

It will be the new disability, like back pain or depression.

107800 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to WhyNow, #940 of 1278 🔗

My sister-in-law will get it – she gets everything, although we haven’t heard that she’s had Wuflu yet!

106963 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #941 of 1278 🔗

This is the same after people had flu or a bad viral infection.

106797 wendy, replying to wendy, 10, #942 of 1278 🔗

I am wondering if Boris’s drive to get people to go back to work might in the end trigger something coming out about the virus not being that dangerous.

Sturgeon and the Labour Party, I guess the BBC and the Guardian (I cant bear to look at their websites so I don’t know) look to be making trouble to scupper the return to work. It might force SAGE and the government into countering the fear by making it known of the limited danger people face. They have already done this in the case of children and schools. It might also be the downfall of labour as I feel many of boris’s new voters in red wall seats sense some of this is about stopping Brexit. Could it be the turning point we need.

What do others think?

106808 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to wendy, 6, #943 of 1278 🔗

More mixed messages to deliberately add to the confusion I suspect. They know the economy is irreparably broken as a direct result of “their” policies.

106818 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Richard O, 3, #944 of 1278 🔗

Mhmm, but it isn’t dangerous to go back to work though is it?

106822 ▶▶ Julian, replying to wendy, 6, #945 of 1278 🔗

A hole of their own digging, as usual. Masks will be part of the answer. And bullshit rules about distancing, cleaning, testing, self isolation, vaccination (when available).

106843 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Julian, 14, #946 of 1278 🔗

Precisely. Go back to work. But while you’re there here are five new regulations you must obey to stay safe. All of which make working in an office utterly miserable and completely impractical.

106855 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Richard O, 10, #947 of 1278 🔗

The police, construction workers, shops, fire service, health, all have been at work and they are not all dead! But yes I agree dug a hole of own making. Thank goodness for Sweden

106860 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to wendy, 1, #948 of 1278 🔗

But they have always worn masks, which means masks work, which means they must be mandatory everywhere, forever.

106832 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to wendy, 10, #949 of 1278 🔗

I think the overriding political concern is to escape accountability for the disaster of lockdown which has killed/will kill 200,000 for demonstrably no benefit. Admitting that the virus is not all that dangerous invites the obvious recriminations regarding lockdown.

What is shown by the points made in your comment is that the institutional media is even more terrified of a day of reckoning for its part in lockdown than is the government.

106850 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Ovis, 8, #950 of 1278 🔗

BBC can’t survive this can they?

106889 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to wendy, 7, #951 of 1278 🔗

Lying relentlessly about 9/11 & 7/7 done them no harm.

106990 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to peter, #952 of 1278 🔗

And they get away with it because even really intelligent people believe what they are told.

106911 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to wendy, #953 of 1278 🔗

I was thinking about the press involvement in all this and they have a simple get out of jail free card….’they were just reporting what the government told them to report’. They’ll turn on Johnson big time when the time is right to bring him (and the government) down in order to scupper Brexit. Just my thoughts….

107060 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to wendy, 2, #954 of 1278 🔗

Owen Jones is cribbing about it, takling about the rightwing press bullying people back into the office 🙁

I’m inclined to take the view that if OJ is for/against something, I should be against/for it.

107132 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendy, #955 of 1278 🔗

It’s not dangerous.
If you nappy your face.
Otherwise the deadly bugaboo will get you for sure.
Unless you’re exempt.

106799 Marvin42, replying to Marvin42, 6, #956 of 1278 🔗

Became a little obsessed with how Wales were (badly) reporting hospital admissions – totally out of proportion due to including suspected cases… that’s one thing, but that this highly inflated number was being added into the UK total was a disgrace. So I am pleased to see that Carl Heneghan and CEBM have now highlighted this issue so well. That’s one thing I can move on from – it was keeping me awake at night!

I think it was on 12th Aug it really hit home. Wales: 45 Hospital Admissions Reported. Same Day, Total number of positive infections detected in all of Wales (in all settings) 8 – incredible.

Here’s CEBM’s full report. A bit of a joy to read in these troubling times.


106814 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Marvin42, 8, #957 of 1278 🔗

Oh thank goodness for the lovely Carl Heneghan. I feel he really cares about people. Perhaps some of the things he says can be picked up to help them get out of this mess. I know the government haven’t done well but I wouldn’t like them to fall and for more instability as that would just lead to more misery and deaths. I think it’s in our best interests to stick with the Conservatives. As a life long labour voter (forgive me friends) I think sticking with the Conservative party is our best bet of getting out of this I wouldn’t want Labour any where near the country.

106825 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wendy, 3, #958 of 1278 🔗

Keir Starmer has misfired. Very poor.

106857 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #959 of 1278 🔗

He was/is an establishment placement. Opposite side of the same coin.

Look at his record in the CPS.

His knighthood was a reward for services rendered.

106833 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to wendy, 10, #960 of 1278 🔗

Well I have voted for all the major parties and some minor ones over the years, Tory last time. Never again. Spoiled ballot paper or a party that properly represents my views on the issues important to me (none currently).

I agree another election at this stage probably wouldn’t help, and Labour would probably have been as bad or worse than the current lot, but I wouldn’t advocate “sticking with the Conservatives” as such – most or all of the Cabinet need to step down and be replaced by a group who promise to get us back to normal, if necessary across parties. Trouble is, I just can’t see that happening.

106854 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 6, #961 of 1278 🔗

Independents only that have the same view and ideals as me or a spoilt paper.

Main parties – never again.

106838 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to wendy, 13, #962 of 1278 🔗

I have always voted Tory (since first time in 1983). To stand a chance of getting my vote again, they need to ditch Boris and his talentless and inexperienced Cabinet and replace them with some grey hairs with spines and intellect, preferably yesterday.

106845 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #963 of 1278 🔗

Yes Julian and Tigress. I would fear labour so much more at the moment. Lordy knows what future parties are going to be like because I won’t be able to forgive Labour.

106947 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Marvin42, 1, #964 of 1278 🔗

The suspicion has to be that every hospital admission, with whatever primary condition was treated as potentially covid positive, thereby added to the case numbers

107029 ▶▶▶ Marvin42, replying to The Spingler, #965 of 1278 🔗

Yes that is how it seems. Comparing Wales to Scotland which has almost twice the population but only 0-2 admissions daily recently, you can assume that of the 30-70 admissions in Wales recently they should really be 0-1 daily, so practically all the admissions reported in Wales are not real ones – i.e. potential or suspected only. Would be great if this excess contribution to the UK total admissions is retrospectively fixed and admitted to… but I won’t hold my breath.

106829 Julian, replying to Julian, 15, #966 of 1278 🔗

Just noticed this on Hitchens’ Twitter feed, from the Mayor of Oxford: https://twitter.com/OxfordLordMayor/status/1299316160094236680

Though I dont agree with them, I can understand those who are trolling me because they think COVID is not a risk. But the fact is that Oxford is on amber alert heading for a damaging lockdown. Even if these trolls dont care about health, they surely care about jobs & livelihoods?”

The responses are almost 100% negative – he is getting slaughtered. His picture has him in full Mayoral regalia, with a mask on.

106836 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 10, #967 of 1278 🔗

He is the leader of the Green Party on the council. Enough said!

106839 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #968 of 1278 🔗

Whatever party he’s from, calling people trolls for disagreeing with you is not very mayoral language, and shows you know your case is weak. Amber alert – PAH!

106842 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Julian, 4, #969 of 1278 🔗

Mhmm, Carl Heneghan is in Oxford isn’t he. I look forward to him demolishing this.

106880 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Julian, #970 of 1278 🔗

Ha, bring out the gimp

106907 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, #971 of 1278 🔗

Sound like an outright threat, conform or get locked down more.

106835 annie, 42, #972 of 1278 🔗

Huge, socially distanced, masked queues built up outside centres distributing single-use sacrificial knives today, after the WHO announced that sacrificing the eldest child made families safe from Covid.
Boris Johnson said that the sacrifices would not be made mandatory in England. Five minutes later, the sacrifices were made mandatory in Scotland and Boris Johnson performed a U turn.

106840 wendy, replying to wendy, 11, #973 of 1278 🔗

Latest ONS infection survey is out. They say the slight increase reported in July has levelled off and continues level. They cannot report an increase or a decrease. They say the survey does not show any difference in infection across the regions of England and Wales.

Can we conclude from this then that what is causing regions to show higher rates is the rate of testing? Testing is likely higher in the northern lockdown areas, in Leicester etc.

106844 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to wendy, 20, #974 of 1278 🔗

Also that mandatory masks have made sweet fuck all difference in England

106873 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to Mark II, 10, #975 of 1278 🔗

That was never the point, they are just a prop to prop up the diabolic hoax.

106894 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to peter, #976 of 1278 🔗


106892 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mark II, #977 of 1278 🔗


106985 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark II, 2, #978 of 1278 🔗

Proved by result from mask-free Wales.It’s screaming in their stupid faces.

106851 ▶▶ guy153, replying to wendy, 7, #979 of 1278 🔗

Yes. The ONS data and methodology are good and as you say they show infections to be evenly spread and at a low level consistent with an endemic equilibrium.

The local mockdowns are driven instead by absolute numbers of positive tests where there is no clear criterion for who is actually being sampled with the tests, making them meaningless.

The government pretend that the positives they find are the sum total of all the positives (or close to) and that they are controlling “outbreaks”.

But in reality they are finding probably 1 or 2% of the actual positives spread harmlessly throughout the country. Any changes they report and “act decisively upon” are just noise and/or bias in the numbers of people being tested in different places.

106867 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to guy153, 1, #980 of 1278 🔗

Yes indeed. The ONS survey shows this clearly.

106862 ▶▶ DomW, replying to wendy, 5, #981 of 1278 🔗

Is it just me who is completely gobsmacked when they say:

“we do not know the true sensitivity and specificity of the test” ???

Or have I missed something ?

106901 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to DomW, 1, #982 of 1278 🔗

They don’t know but at least if they do the same thing over and over it can be compared

106964 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DomW, 2, #983 of 1278 🔗

Nobody ever knows the true sensitivity and specificity because you can only calibrate it against a finite number of samples. Suppose you have 100 true positives and you test positive on all of them. Your sensitivity is therefore apparently 100%. But you don’t know for sure that if you tested 1000 true positives you would still get 1000 positive results. There is always some uncertainty due to the sample size.

And how do you know your “gold standard” true positives are really true positives without just using the same test? In reality you rely on other assumptions like what to expect if you test the same person repeatedly and the performance of the test on lab samples.

But unless you stick to pure mathematics you have to live with uncertainty and it’s all about error bars and confidence intervals (which are themselves uncertain but this does not make them meaningless). The ONS know what they’re doing and are transparent about it.

The government T&T program on the other hand is an example of how failure to understand uncertainty and poor methodology leads to meaningless results but using similar testing hardware.

106890 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to wendy, 1, #984 of 1278 🔗


106981 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to wendy, 4, #985 of 1278 🔗

If there is no difference in infection between Wales and England, yet another reason to think that face masks are useless.

107027 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Alison9, #986 of 1278 🔗

Proof positive!

106865 Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, 2, #987 of 1278 🔗

Full rejection of proposed changes to allow use of unlicensed COVID vaccine in the UK.

106917 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Laura Gallagher, 2, #988 of 1278 🔗

Interesting… clicked that link which took me to Facebook, which asked if I was sure I wanted to go to the petition page… Am I now going to get a warning from Facebook or have my account suspended? Suggest anyone posting links to petitions uses (wherever possible) a link that does not go via another site, especially not a social media one…
Preferable to use a link that takes us directly to the petition!

107079 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Carrie, 1, #989 of 1278 🔗

Delete everything after the 549793, it then goes directly there. I see this is a new petition (only 5 signed) so will wait till it is approved.

106866 Hopeful, replying to Hopeful, 18, #990 of 1278 🔗

Friend of mine has recently gone back to office based working. Naughty colleague was seen half embracing a workmate she hadn’t seen in months. Supervisor reported her to HR and she’s now embroiled in disciplinary proceedings. The employer hasn’t done any risk assessments covering the measures they’ve introduced to create their covid-compliant environment, ffs. All credit to the person involved for she’s pushing back hard against the garbage HR, and therefore the employer, is making up on the hoof. As for me I lost my self-employed training consultancy work right at the start of this nonsense. People too scared to be in same room as others. No sign of this changing any time soon. One client has asked me if I’m prepared to return to face-to-face training. I said for sure. Won’t though if it’s mask-to-mask! We shall see.

106868 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Hopeful, 9, #991 of 1278 🔗

The irony. Disciplinary proceedings with HR for….being human!

106888 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Richard O, 8, #992 of 1278 🔗

HR…’Human Remains’?

107024 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 2, #993 of 1278 🔗

Horrid Rats.

106876 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Hopeful, 3, #994 of 1278 🔗

Suggest supervisor looking for the opportunity to reduce headcount. Hope I am wrong but she will have a verbal or written warning on her record, and when the redundancies are announced, she will likely be at the top of the list. Is she in a union?

106895 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Hopeful, 3, #995 of 1278 🔗

One reason why I am not going back to the office until there’s been a full recognition that it’s all been nonsense (so maybe never).

106918 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Hopeful, 3, #996 of 1278 🔗

At my partner’s old company they have made making someone else a brew into a disciplinary offence. Madness

106921 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to The Spingler, 2, #997 of 1278 🔗

I don’t think any of my colleagues would go that far, but this situation has turned what seemed like normalish people very strange so I would rather not have to find out. Call me a coward.

106938 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Hopeful, 3, #998 of 1278 🔗

“The employer hasn’t done any risk assessments covering the measures they’ve introduced to create their covid-compliant environment”

Yes – tie up any Covid fanatics in the net of their own making. – create an impossible situation.

106966 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Hopeful, 5, #999 of 1278 🔗

Not done any risk assessments – big problem for the company then and leaving themselves open for major fines.

This might help you in fighting back against them (part of a letter sent to Boris the Buffoon):

Risk Assessments

Councils even admitted that there was no scientific evidence available either from their own research (if they have even done any which some Councils have admitted they have not) or had been promulgated from central Government that could be used to justify social distancing, mask wearing nor any of the other safety measures being foisted on the businesses and general population.

They admitted that they had no powers to enforce guidelines and it was the responsibility of each and every individual business to do their own risk assessment and to decide what measures were to be implemented on their premises as the relevant pieces of legislation are the various Health and Safety Acts.

Unfortunately what little information is available from central Government is insufficient and certainly not adequate enough for a risk assessment to be done properly and to be able to determine safe working practices at individual premises as per Health and Safety At Work legislation.

1 – Social distancing is based on absolutely NO scientific evidence whatsoever and certainly no research from the 1930s. Professor Robert Dingwall, who is a member of NERVTAG, admitted it was “conjured out of nowhere”.

2 – Below is an actual quote from an answer I received from a FOI request to a local Council:

“In terms of the scientific basis for social distancing requirements and Government’s advice, I believe this may have originated from a study undertaken in the 1930s, but that is probably a question you would be better placed directing to the Government. We are following, and will continue to follow, their lead when it comes to the best advice and guidance available to the public about staying alert and staying safe.”

3 – To protect themselves from a virus virologists wear full containment suits that are pressurised, use an independent air supply that is filtered and sterilised, undergo full decontamination procedures when taking off the protective suit and undergo years of training on how to use the PPE.

Over the many years of my career I have had to write a lot of risk assessments for operations that have very high risks involved and that could result in multiple fatalities.

Based on the information available on Government websites I could NOT write a risk assessment that contained supporting evidence to justify any measure to be used such as staying a little bit apart from others, standing behind a small perspex screen, wearing a “face covering”, using a face shield, not using cash and using an anti-bacterial hand sanitiser that could be written into a risk assessment trying to justify them when there is no evidence whatsoever that as a “safety measure” it actually has any effect on keeping people “safe” and would bring the risk as low as reasonably practicable.

At the moment any business that is operating solely using Government guidelines as their main reasons for instigating “covid-19 safe” measures is actually acting illegally as they do not have a fully supported risk assessment of their own and cannot prove, as per the relevant legislation, they have thought about what mitigations are required to operate safely.

How can businesses write a full, correct and detailed risk assessment with supporting documentation when the Government cannot or will not supply “the science” in full that is being used to justify guidance and publishing guidelines and frameworks and what little is available is contradicted by many independent sources of information?

107035 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1000 of 1278 🔗

I’ve been saying this to many, many people. A risk assessment can only be done for the locality that you are in. Using evidence around them to reduce any risk, then it must be ALARP!
Someone needs to take a business to the courts with regards to any risk assessment that they may have provided without the due evidence & documentation.

106996 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Hopeful, 1, #1001 of 1278 🔗

I do hope people like her are taking a serious interest in the quality of the air conditioning in their workplaces, rate of replacement with external air, maintenance schedules and the like, just checking to make sure the degree of aggravation they make is commensurate with what they receive?

107022 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Hopeful, #1002 of 1278 🔗

from my experience (contracting at many offices over many years) HR departments are always populated by the same girls (invariably girls) who would otherwise have gone into teaching and they have the same approach as teachers. So not surprising they are weaving a web of confusion around the rules to apply to covid in the office

106874 TJN, replying to TJN, 12, #1003 of 1278 🔗

Anyone wearing a face nappy in a public place should be fined and issued with an ASBO.

106886 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to TJN, 7, #1004 of 1278 🔗

And a slap….?

106878 Norma McNormalface, replying to Norma McNormalface, 11, #1005 of 1278 🔗

Thoughts for today:

Relationship between government, media and society (and me) becoming increasingly sadomasochistic

“Go back to the office?” Not until you admit you’ve been wrong the entire time and that it was safe in March. Otherwise, no. Have an office whip round at the next government/SAGE meeting and cough up some more free dough. You started it.

Masks still mandatory, except when not. Don’t tell too many people, but reasonable excuses include: Because I don’t want to (although nobody enforcing rules knows this as it wasn’t widely reported). Just print out our exemption card. There’s one on a low profile government web page by Ben, our work experience student, who knows how to work a computer. Or make your own, actually, because we haven’t bothered to put any government logos on ours to make it look anything but meaningless, nor have we made the template in a sensible format that would fit into your wallet or into an ID or travel card holder. Shouldn’t matter because people aren’t supposed to ask for it really. They don’t know that, though. (LOLZ)

Wanting Trump to win just out of spite.


106916 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Norma McNormalface, 3, #1006 of 1278 🔗

Trump hasn’t been very reliable on the virus issue, but one imagines Clinton would have been worse, and so will Biden be – hasn’t he threatened/promised to make masks mandatory everywhere? If the full political and economic weight of the US is thrown behind the coronapanic, it’s going to be hard to fight it.

106942 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #1007 of 1278 🔗

In fairness, it’s not what Biden thinks that will count anyway, it’s Harris who’s the real candidate, but I see no reason to suppose this isn’t approved by pretty much all the Democrat hierarchy:

Joe Biden: For The Next 3 Months, All Americans Should Wear A Mask When Outside
August 13, 20204:27 PM ET

Joe Biden is calling for everyone in the United States to wear a mask, well into the fall.
“Every single American should be wearing a mask when they’re outside for the next three months, at a minimum,” Biden said Thursday afternoon in remarks in Wilmington, Del. “Every governor should mandate mandatory mask-wearing. The estimates by the experts are it will save over 40,000 lives.”


Unlike President Trump, who took months to wear a mask publicly, Biden has long been consistently wearing a mask and encouraging others to do so. But he’s never been so explicit about mandates and a timeline.

In an interview with KDKA in Pittsburgh in June, the presumptive Democratic nominee said he would require masks if he were president.

“I would insist that everybody out in public be wearing that mask. Anyone to reopen would have to make sure that they walked into a business that had masks,” he said.

The former vice president said he would use the power of the executive branch to do everything possible to make mask-wearing in public a requirement — though mandates have come at the state level, and many governors have opted against such measures.

106881 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 8, #1008 of 1278 🔗

Understatement of the century in ‘The Conversation’

“Spike in hand gun sales (in the US) reflects turbulent times”

Jesus, those 3 years at Uni weren’t wasted were they?!

106987 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to T. Prince, #1009 of 1278 🔗

There were huge spikes under Obama too. Particularly after the Dept of ‘Homeland Security’ bought about half a billion rounds of hollow point ammo, and billions of rounds of standard.

106884 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 21, #1010 of 1278 🔗

Got the letter from my daughters school today as she starts p1 proper on Monday.

Absolutely no mention of any shite rules other than staggered pickups and hand washing. Most importantly, no masks. A normal service, including none on teachers.

I play 5 a side football with the principal on Fridays so he’ll be getting a thanks you and due respect tonight. Just a wee reminder to stand his ground as I spied a few masked parents outside the school gates today. Maybe 2% of em. They’ll be seething

106934 ▶▶ RickH, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1011 of 1278 🔗

Yes – the ‘thanks’ – a sign of solidarity towards proper teachers is – important.

107108 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1012 of 1278 🔗

I got a letter from my daughter’s grammar school today. The school is in the top 5 in the country and they are bedwetters. Masks should be worn in corridors. The school is in London not a lockdown area.
I am really angry and disappointed. I am going to write them a letter over the weekend asking lots of questions.

106887 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 19, #1013 of 1278 🔗

Have travelled up by train from Kent to the Midlands today-no mask of course. Train was slightly busier than the one coming down but still only about 1/4 full, if that.
Two transport policemen got on the train just before St Pancras and indicated to my son that he should be wearing a mask. He flashed his badge at them and they gave him a thumbs up to say “OK.” I asked them whether we actually needed the badges or could we just say we were exempt. They told me that they would have to take us at our word and wouldn’t question us. In other words, the whole thing is impossible to police.

Interestingly at Euston, which was quieter than we have ever seen it, we saw quite a few rail staff members wearing exemption lanyards.

106953 ▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Margaret, 3, #1014 of 1278 🔗

Great o know MArgeret. I’ve not worn one in any shops yet. But these days I rarely go shopping because it’s so very depressing!


106898 Julian, replying to Julian, 9, #1015 of 1278 🔗

Apologies if this has been posted before, content not in itself that amazing as it’s stuff we all know anyway, what is more interesting is that this is a sceptical doctor (in Germany) who has autopsied all the patients in his area that died of/with covid, saying that the risks have been exaggerated irresponsibly, on mainstream German TV, interviewer lets him speak and thanks him at the end:


Can’t imagine that happening here, yet

106908 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #1016 of 1278 🔗

Great interview!

106925 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 10, #1017 of 1278 🔗

I think the doctors are starting to push back here too. Senior doctor just interviewed an hour ago on Sky by another one of the poppets (Samantha Washington). The doctor was a female senior pediatrician at ICL hospital trust and was commenting on the recent analysis of children and CV (the Edinburgh/Liverpool analysis reported yesterday). Ms Washington, reflecting the Sky agenda, was constantly pushing the narrative of ‘but, but, children get that dreadful and deathly inflammatory condition, and some die’. Doctor was having none of it, pointing to the number of cases of Kawasaki and other inflammatory disease in the context of the number of kids in the country, and that of the six or so kids that have died, all were very ill already. At one point, a rather exasperated Ms Washington could be heard saying when the camera reverted to the doctor, ‘that’s not what I asked you’.

106928 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1018 of 1278 🔗

Interviewee not following the producer’s script? Can’t have that! Sack the researcher who put her on and find someone else next time (from the BBC manual of interviewing).

107371 ▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to WhyNow, #1019 of 1278 🔗

For those who haven’t seen it, this interview with a Spanish doctor is priceless. When the interviewer loses control, her goon boss steps in to keep the coronabollocks narrative going. Doctor deals with the goon quite neatly, and I love the expressions on the Doc’s face – he’s treating the whole scam like it’s a Monty Python sketch!

106929 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #1020 of 1278 🔗

I think that the (a) competent and (b) honest members of the medical profession like this have a job to do.

106952 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 7, #1021 of 1278 🔗

Agree. As I have said a couple of times, if groups of senior hospital doctors and nurses blow the lid on the coronascandal via a series of press conferences (wearing their scrubs), people will listen. That is their job and something they need to do in the public interest. The role for senior GPs, similarly in the public interest, is to speak out against the introduction of an untried, untested and wholly unnecessary vaccine.

106949 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1022 of 1278 🔗


106969 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Julian, 2, #1023 of 1278 🔗

This is seriously good. Not guessing the cause of death. Based on autopsy of ALL deaths in Hamburg university hospital. Not a single death attributable primarily to Covid. All related to serious underlying conditions.

106975 ▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 1, #1024 of 1278 🔗

Great work by the doc, but is anybody here surprised at his findings?
I thought not.

106902 Nigel Sherratt, 6, #1025 of 1278 🔗

Tegnell will definitely be starring as himself in the film. Or the next Wallander series perhaps.

106904 Saved To Death, replying to Saved To Death, 18, #1026 of 1278 🔗

Letter from sons school. He is 13 and we live far from any local lockdown. The school states face coverings will be compulsory outside of lessons. Not unexpected but officially another line has been crossed as another outrage is perpetrated.

106910 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Saved To Death, 5, #1027 of 1278 🔗

If it was my son I would keep him home

106941 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Saved To Death, 11, #1029 of 1278 🔗

From the government guidelines “ No-one should be excluded from education on the grounds that they are not wearing a face covering.”

So I would suggest your son ‘forgets’ to take a face mask to school and if/when the school provides him with one, that he loses it. The guidelines say “However, where anybody is struggling to access a face covering, or where they are unable to use their face covering due to having forgotten it or it having become soiled or unsafe, education settings should take steps to have a small contingency supply available to meet such needs.”

He can continue to keep losing masks they give him until their small contingency supply is all used up.

106961 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1030 of 1278 🔗

One thing I have advised some to do, buy a snood type face covering and keep it tucked under the collar of your jumper. If they are challenged and feel unable to take the heat, just pull it up and remove it once the confrontation is over. You’ll only have to wear it for seconds.

It’s hard on kids but they can be a little more selective that way when to stand their ground.

106960 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #1031 of 1278 🔗

How will they handle exempt children?

107007 ▶▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Victoria, 3, #1032 of 1278 🔗

Not sure, but I would just politely refer the school to the gov website that says noboby has to wear a mask if they have a reasonable ‘excuse’ not to, say your child is uncomfortable wearing a mask and can’t breathe properly (who can?) and ensure them that your child will bring the government’s pathetic excuse for an exemption card to school. Doubt they’ll kick up a fuss and if they do, perhaps we can make sure the press gets a hold of it (while keeping you anonymous). I thought majority of parents didn’t want masks, so imagine things might kick off in the media on this again come next week.

107009 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Victoria, 3, #1033 of 1278 🔗

I am going to have to phone them Monday to discuss.

107006 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #1034 of 1278 🔗

Same info has been given out at my granddaughters school. Last week there were 2 cases in a town with a population of 106,000.

107072 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Biggles, 3, #1035 of 1278 🔗

Is that ‘cases’ as in people in hospital or ‘cases’ as in people apparently testing positive? MW

107106 ▶▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1036 of 1278 🔗

No idea. I got it from the (please forgive me) BBC online thing where you enter your postcode and it shows the number of ‘cases’ in the last week.

107104 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Biggles, 5, #1037 of 1278 🔗

Can your granddaughter’s parents write to the school and quote these figures, and ask for justification of the policy? Plus copy of the risk assessment for mask-wearing? Will the teachers be wearing masks?

107111 ▶▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Carrie, 1, #1038 of 1278 🔗

I’ve only just found out about it so will advise them to do just that. She doesn’t start school until next Friday.

107012 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Saved To Death, 7, #1039 of 1278 🔗

I will ask them Monday what happens if he refuses to wear one. Ultimately it seems home education is the only way forward. It will not stop here and its only a matter of time before they are demanded in the classroom also.

106906 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #1040 of 1278 🔗

BBC Headline

“UK ‘providing training for repressive regimes’, claims campaign group”

Practicing what you preach, or the other way round?

106912 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1041 of 1278 🔗

I wonder what the process is – do these “campaign groups” know who to contact at the BBC to get these stories placed, or are there people at the BBC whose job it is to scour the world for them, or both?

106919 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #1042 of 1278 🔗

It’s no secret, and no campaign needed. The UK, sadly, has always been up to its neck in training and equipment for fascists.

The hypocritical term has been ‘the defence industry’.

106923 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cecil B, 8, #1043 of 1278 🔗

Germany and others lectured Zimbabwe today that Corona should not be used as an excuse to restrict citizens rights.
You can’t make this up!

106965 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cecil B, #1044 of 1278 🔗

Which regime is that? Greater Manchester Police?

106913 Lord Rickmansworth, 3, #1045 of 1278 🔗

EPISODE 4 IS HERE! Today we talk about the University Health NKVD, fools on Twitter, plus is the awakening happening in Europe? Get you fix below!

106915 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #1046 of 1278 🔗

Wife just come up with a good point about the bins and the bin men refusing to take them as used masks are officially contaminated medical waste and therefore should not be disposed of in the household waste.

She’s expecting stories in the MSM starting soon about it.

106924 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1047 of 1278 🔗

Good on the bin-men!

106927 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1048 of 1278 🔗

Sainsburys today – in Wales but generic signs everywhere saying please use a face covering and follow government guidelines. Disappointed in Sainsburys for not producing Welsh specific signs (Welsh Lives Matter!) but heartening to see that zero staff were wearing masks. There were some masked customers but probably 75% maskless.

Earlier this week I ventured over the border into Englandshire and went to a pub with some friends and friends of friends – we numbered five different households. I wasn’t aware until reminded on the radio this morning that this was breaking covid rules. Oops. Slap my wrist. Zero face masks in the pub – customers or staff. One staff member did bring round the old track and trace form but somehow I neglected to add my name to it.

Conclusion from this week – things seem to be getting more ‘normal’ out there.

106980 ▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, 1, #1049 of 1278 🔗

Government guidance in Wales?
It’s a blatant lie.

107176 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to annie, 1, #1050 of 1278 🔗

That is a lie, masks are not law. However the absurdity of Welsh regulations is that guidance IS law, whatever the ministers decide on any given day becomes the law! “Have regard to ministers guidance” actually means “follow it”.

106931 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 14, #1051 of 1278 🔗

Found this good quote on the HS+E website about PPE stating it clearly:


What do I have to do?

  • Only use PPE as a last resort
  • If PPE is still needed after implementing other controls (and there will be circumstances when it is, eg head protection on most construction sites), you must provide this for your employees free of charge
  • You must choose the equipment carefully (see selection details below) and ensure employees are trained to use it properly , and know how to detect and report any faults

Selection and use You should ask yourself the following questions:

  • Who is exposed and to what?
  • How long are they exposed for?
  • How much are they exposed to?

When selecting and using PPE:

  • Choose products which are CE marked in accordance with the Personal Protective Equipment (Enforcement) Regulations 2018 – suppliers can advise you
  • Choose equipment that suits the user – consider the size, fit and weight of the PPE. If the users help choose it, they will be more likely to use it
  • If more than one item of PPE is worn at the same time, make sure they can be used together, eg wearing safety glasses may disturb the seal of a respirator, causing air leaks
  • Instruct and train people how to use it, eg train people to remove gloves without contaminating their skin. Tell them why it is needed, when to use it and what its limitations are

So your company wants you to use masks in the office to protect you against covid-19 this is what they need to do.

It will cost as most “masks” being sold are not CE rated and cannot be classed as PPE. They have to buy the expensive confirmed covid-19/virus rated protection and so on.

Here’s a nice guide:


They do not supply a virus rated CE marked mask and train you in it’s use then they are breaking the law, big time.

Big fines can be levied by the courts for this.

This company got £150000 fine but was liquidated.


Fight them using their own rules.

HA HA fucking HA.

107238 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #1052 of 1278 🔗


106932 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1053 of 1278 🔗

Is there still an anti-lockdown protest in London this week – I have been trying to find details? Anyone have a website link please?

106943 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1054 of 1278 🔗

Yes Trafalger Sq. Tomorrow. Noon and you won’t miss it.
I don’t have any link.
Try brandnewtube.com who are streaming a day of build up today until midnight.

106956 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Basics, 2, #1055 of 1278 🔗

You can also search for:

unite for freedom trafalgar square.

This will return links to sites which have an offical poster and additional information. Here’s the link from Off-Guardian:


106978 ▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to DomW, 2, #1056 of 1278 🔗

Many thanks Basics and DomW – much appreciated.

107209 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Ozzie, #1057 of 1278 🔗

Shocking that when you google it nothing shows up, just a lot of pieces about previous ‘nutters and extremists’ marching in May. I am no conspiracy theorist but you do wonder…

107334 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Chris Hume, #1058 of 1278 🔗

No wondering its has been censored. Google is epic at insidious censoring, replacing good results with msm press articless. Often results tell you what to think of a given search rather than about the search.

A small important point on google censorship all can try. Google start search pages have a series of previously searched sites 8 or so presented as a helpful short cut. Use google to visit two twitter accounts – one establishment and one a good source of real information.

Google the same good twitter source 20 times. Google search the establishment twitter 5 times. Google will never present you with the good source as a short cut, it presents the establishment source after only a few visits.

Suggest trying two scientific peoples twitter acounts for an even comparison. Google is active in censoring human though and knowledge. The Nazi’s would have be in heaven with the company that once had a slogan do not be evil – or similar.

106948 swedenborg, #1059 of 1278 🔗


How the Virus Penetrated Fortress New Zealand
An interesting article drawing parallels with Edgar Allan Poe, Masque of the Red Death
“It was toward the close of the fifth or sixth month of his seclusion, and while the pestilence raged most furiously abroad, that the Prince Prospero entertained his thousand friends at a masked ball of the most unusual magnificence.”

For those not inclined to read here is a short animated video instead


106954 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 14, #1060 of 1278 🔗

My friend in Victoria getting despondent and really pissed off:

“We are under serious pressure, the cunt’s are ramping up the control.
We in “police state”
One step forward then 2 back
We have a protest march coming up and cops started arresting people already.
We are the test case and we are near end game
We need numbers but it is scary as to how many people are not awake, and they cowards ruled by stupid fear.”

Hard work trying to get his spirits up.

106959 ▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1061 of 1278 🔗

Man, it’s supposed to be a liberal free country! Of all the stubborn society’s I thought the Aussies would have been the most pig headed about any restrictions. Sadly proven wrong I guess…


107180 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 1, #1062 of 1278 🔗

They rolled over to gun control, after the blatant Port Arthur nonsense. And their vaccine policies are pretty nasty.

A bit of Aussie Rules attitude would benefit their civil society, for sure.

106968 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1063 of 1278 🔗

I wonder why the Antipodes have been selected as the test bed for the new police state? Whatever the reason, from what I can gather it has the full support of the vast majority of their populations.

Very bad omens indeed. I think we will see this kind of crackdown in the UK during the forthcoming Dark Winter.

106971 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard O, 4, #1064 of 1278 🔗

I know lots of megarich bought bugout properties in Oz and NZ over the past 5 years or so, maybe it’s linked to that.

107178 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #1065 of 1278 🔗

The megarich will be reassured to see efficient overbearing martial law being trialed … unless/until they are deemed no longer useful, I guess.

107008 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Richard O, 1, #1066 of 1278 🔗

preparation for when the chinese invade via all their new illegal bases in the south china sea. after all, oz is major supplier of raw materials (iron ore and coal) to china.
see film Tomorrow when the war began

107028 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Richard O, 4, #1067 of 1278 🔗

It’s just because they happened to get the virus later. Most of us already had the epidemic while we were still in denial and so got it over with. They really have to sit back and just watch a few thousand people die at this point but they can’t face it.

107100 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 2, #1068 of 1278 🔗

Because it is harder to escape from somewhere like Australia, being an island that is a long way from most other countries? If you used, say France as a test bed, then people could much more easily make a bid for freedom by travelling over the land border to another country, or paddle across the Channel (as they are doing..).

106983 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Johet, 1, #1070 of 1278 🔗

I just posted the same link – sorry, hadn’t seen your post.

106991 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Johet, 7, #1071 of 1278 🔗

They are desperate for a vaccine as a way to draw this hoo-haa to a close and make it look like they have been victorious. I think that no matter that they are going to short circuit the system, I think a large proportion of the public will be queuing up for a jab at the first opportunity.
At least they have not said anything about it being mandatory, I do not think they need to, they will struggle to jab all the people queuing up to get vaccinated!
I am not an out and out anti vaccine person, as I child I was vaccinated against Polio and I am glad I was, it is a horrible disease. But unless you are vulnerable I wonder if vaccines for flu and Covid might do more harm than good and that it is better to build up natural immunity by exposure to whatever is doing the rounds.

106998 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #1072 of 1278 🔗

Very much my position – every new vaccine to be considered on its merits but there should be a precautionary presumption against increasing the range of vaccines. It’s quite possible that use of flu vaccines is creating conditions on which novel pathogens can get a grip, because old people’s lungs don’t get any less inviting to pathogens just because they’ve received the flu vaccine.

106972 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1073 of 1278 🔗


Sorry if this article been published before

“SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV viral load dynamics, duration of viral shedding 2 and infectiousness – a living systematic review and meta-analysis”

This is the most startling sentence

“No live virus was isolated from any respiratory samples taken after day 8 of symptoms in three studies, or beyond day 9  despite persistently high viral RNA loads.”

So after 9 days from symptoms no viable virus despite PCR test pos even highly pos. Not infectious.

106988 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, #1074 of 1278 🔗


Project fear is using this new article to say that children can spread the virus.But they did not cultivate the virus and living virus has never been found 9 days after symptoms

 “Thus, we could not answer the question about infectivity and the infectious period in this cohort study
“The detection of virus RNA in respiratory specimens in this study does not necessarily imply that viable virus is present. However, if proven infectious (because most of the children were asymptomatic, were presymptomatic, or had unrecognizable symptoms in this study), the transmission potential of SARS-CoV-2 in children and its effect on the community might be greater than expected.

107025 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1075 of 1278 🔗

So inconclusive study leads to rock solid evidence for self flagelation.

These people have a reckoning coming. They live in lala land.

106976 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1076 of 1278 🔗

Oxford apparently on amber alert and the Lord Mayor is retweeting this:

Lord Mayor of Oxford Retweeted
comment image
Oxfordshire County
Showing symptoms of COVID-19? From 28 to 30 August, from 10am – 4.30pm, a mobile testing unit will be located just off Cowley Road, Oxford in the car park on Union Street (behind Tesco). Call 119 to book or register online. ”

How long before Oxford is locked down then? (Interesting to see how much push back the mayor is getting on his twitter account though). https://twitter.com/OxfordLordMayor/status/1299316160094236680

106992 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Ozzie, 13, #1077 of 1278 🔗

‘We’re on amber alert… quick, go get tested at the new test centre so we can bump ourselves up to red and then get locked down’

What a bloody twit.

107023 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ozzie, #1078 of 1278 🔗

That’s where the Asian community lives. Hopefully community leaders have not been co-opted into making sure they all go along for testing!

107030 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1079 of 1278 🔗

That’s what is worrying – the issue is in East Oxford apparently. I can’t find Oxford on any “at risk of lockdown” list via Google though.

107046 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1080 of 1278 🔗

Although he is a Green councillor, this is Anneliese Dodds’ seat – she who declared some time ago she was too scared to send her little darling back to school!

107090 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1081 of 1278 🔗

It’s also where Peter Hitchens lives!

107098 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Carrie, 1, #1082 of 1278 🔗

And where my kids go to school

107160 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, #1083 of 1278 🔗


107158 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, #1084 of 1278 🔗

Lots of BBC types in North Oxford!

107109 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1085 of 1278 🔗

I think that just about the most ridiculous thing I have seen (and I have seen many ridiculous things in the last few months especially) is that man’s profile pic, in full mayoral garb, with a face nappy.

106979 Edna, replying to Edna, 15, #1087 of 1278 🔗

Has anyone seen this? If this doesn’t stir people to civil unrest, then I’ve lost all hope.


A very chilling quote from it:

However, if there is a compelling case, on public health grounds, for using a vaccine before it is given a product licence, given the nature of the threat we face, the JCVI may take the very unusual step of advising the UK government to use a tested, unlicensed vaccine against COVID-19, and we need to make sure that the right legislative measures are in place to deal with that scenario.

107002 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Edna, 18, #1088 of 1278 🔗

Translation for the hard of understanding like myself.

Your government is prepared to kill you in order to save your life.

107004 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Old Bill, 2, #1089 of 1278 🔗

It says that it’s an open consulation but and the final paragraph is about responding to it, but I have to confess, I found the paragraph confusing. To, it seems to imply the email they give is for use if you miss the deadline, but I can’t see any other way to comment…

Taking into account the information in this document, you are asked to give general responses.

The consultation period will run until the end of Friday 18 September 2020.

By necessity we are working towards short timelines, but if you miss the date and still want to make comments, contact us at covidvaccineconsultation@dhsc.gov.uk and we will try to accommodate your comment before any changes are made. In any event, we will consider them as part of the ongoing process of making sure we have everything we need properly in place to deal with the challenges of the coming months.

107093 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Edna, 1, #1090 of 1278 🔗

AG and Alethea, a job for you two!!!

107041 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 8, #1091 of 1278 🔗

Two further thoughts on this.

First they are prepared to kill you in order to save their lives (and careers) not yours.

Second, this might just be the beginning of the end because it finally signals an understanding that there is no way to slay the monster they have created unless they convince the gullible that it can no longer harm them. Telling them it is toothless will not work, they have spent so long saying the opposite, but give the masses a rabbits foot/crucifix/clove of garlic to clutch and tell them the bogey man will go away and maybe it will for them? So what if a few individuals turn into gibbering wrecks or grow a second head, government officials will only get the sugar water (or maybe all of us will only get the sugar water) but if it ends the madness the ‘final solution’ might even be worth it?


BTW Don’t forget to vote for us at the next election will you.

107005 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Edna, 7, #1092 of 1278 🔗

It’s actually worth making a cup of tea and setting time aside to think about this. It is so badly wrong.

It may even be heresy to suggest but to me there’s a faint sense of the WW1 butcher generals about this. A closed off elite willing, without compunction, to risk the lives of millions in experimental warfare. Consequences for refusing.

107037 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Edna, 3, #1093 of 1278 🔗

… and if the opposition doesn’t pick that up, then it’s proof positive that they are complicit in this scam.

107047 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 2, #1094 of 1278 🔗

Of course they are! MW

107049 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 12, #1095 of 1278 🔗

P.S. I note that the consultation paper opens with an explicit lie :

COVID-19 is the biggest threat this country has faced in peacetime history”

The dishonesty is breathtaking., and needs slinging back to local MPs to see if they endorse lying like this.

Fact : Covid-19 has never reached official ‘epidemic’ levels, and – as a matter of simple fact – has produced only the eighth level of seasonal winter mortality in the last 27 years.

Now there’s some facts to base questions to MPs.

107091 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Edna, 2, #1096 of 1278 🔗

Well that will help Simon Dolan’s appeal which is all about proportionality – how can they do that when almost no one is in hospital or dying from the virus any more? May explain why they haven’t given him a date.. Much more difficult to repeal laws once passed..

106986 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 8, #1097 of 1278 🔗

3rd day that the official government Corona website stating daily numbers does not work.
I, of course, think it is deliberate.

106989 ▶▶ peter, replying to Silke David, 5, #1098 of 1278 🔗

Too true, only shills peddle incompetence at this stage of the game.

106994 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 14, #1099 of 1278 🔗

Wife has the BBC on.

Two straight up lies – vaccine is the only means to get back to normal (no – we never should have locked down)

But the worst: a peaceful BLM protest going on in Washington DC when Trump’s speech was happening – technically correct but what happened afterwards?

Rand Paul might want a word. Typical TDS infected Sopel.

107016 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mhcp, 5, #1100 of 1278 🔗

Just been watching Sky’s live coverage from Washington with Rev Al Sharpton and associated representatives regarding the shooting in Milwaukee. Cordelia Lynch made such a big song and dance about Trump’s White House speech last night, and the lack of mask wearing in the crowd. If you looked straight on from the podium you could see the were all seated, and around 2m apart. Yet, in the non-socially distanced crowd right now, I clocked nearly as many non-masked as masked. Nothing said. Only difference was the make up of the crowd from an ethnicity perspective. Even though the MSM are pushing and nudging as hard as they are, they cannot get away from the fact that the betting odds on Trump have been coming steadily in over the last couple of weeks. If I was a Democrat strategist, I would be shitting myself ahead of the presidential debates.

107089 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1101 of 1278 🔗

Especially if you are following the investigations into Obamagate/ the deep state – this guy has his finger on the pulse: https://twitter.com/GregRubini

107085 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, 2, #1102 of 1278 🔗

Can ‘peaceful’ and BLM ever be used in the same sentence?

107164 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Carrie, 1, #1103 of 1278 🔗

Intensely peaceful is the phrase…

106999 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #1104 of 1278 🔗

“110,000 people die each year of snake bites.
Who dies? Healthy young people. And disproportionately children. COVID has killed only around 7 times as many as snakes alone, but at an average age >80, with severe comorbidities.


107003 ▶▶ mjr, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1105 of 1278 🔗

so WHO can organise a mass snake stomping exercise .. kill em all.. save 110000 lives a year .. simples

107148 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to mjr, 2, #1106 of 1278 🔗

Yep, zero snake.

107044 ▶▶ steve, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1107 of 1278 🔗

There was a sign up by Windermere lake about blue algae in the lake which can cause sickness and in very extreme cases death. I think we should start a campaign to drain Windermere lake in case someone dies

107055 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to steve, 5, #1108 of 1278 🔗

fill the lake with all the dead snakes

107069 ▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to mjr, 14, #1109 of 1278 🔗

No, fill it with politicians and virtue signallers, then put the snakes in alive to finish off any of the bastards that can swim.

107149 ▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Old Bill, 1, #1110 of 1278 🔗

Sorry, the snakes are all defunct thanks to mjr. Will pirhanas do?

107143 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to steve, 3, #1111 of 1278 🔗

Yet people will still swim in it no worries. They then get out and put a mask on to get the coffee and cake from the takeaway.

107011 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 25, #1112 of 1278 🔗

Did anyone see this from Birx!!


Quote of the day:

“Mortality decreases” have also complicated matters, she said.
“When people start to realize that 99% of us are going to be fine, it becomes more and more difficult” to get people to comply, she said.

Jaw, floor.

107013 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1113 of 1278 🔗

How terrible that quote it.

107021 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1114 of 1278 🔗

What has that zombie got in its head, where human beings keep their brains?

107080 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1115 of 1278 🔗

That needs to be posted everywhere – it reveals a lot about the real agenda!

107169 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Sarigan, 8, #1116 of 1278 🔗

“Before leaving, Birx again stressed the importance of facial coverings and social distancing.
“Tens of thousands of lives will be saved if we wear masks and we don’t have parties in our backyards,” she said.

And this is a trained epidemiologists well aware that there is no evidence that masks work and no RCT trials and that in flu even RCT shows no protection.
Part of the political theatre.

107266 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1117 of 1278 🔗

She also describes the “common-sense path forward to get control of this virus. It starts with wearing this mask all the time, 24-7. Indoors, outdoors. Continuing to social distance,” … Oh dear God, mask wearing 24-7 being the common sense approach.

107014 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 7, #1118 of 1278 🔗

Good article about the idiotic approach to adding countries to the UK quarantine list.

“Take Austria, for example. A week ago it was ditched, along with Croatia and Trinidad and Tobago, just hours after the latest European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control data revealed that its case rate had reached exactly 20.
Never mind that Austria, just like every other country in Europe, has been testing more people than ever in recent weeks (and picking up scores of asymptomatic cases). Never mind that Austria has seen just 733 deaths throughout the whole pandemic – and just three in the last seven days.”

Lots more in the article.


107082 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1119 of 1278 🔗

Apart from a desire to punish us, I still don’t get why Sweden is on the ‘bad’ list: ever-decreasing cases, hardly any deaths..

107112 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, 4, #1120 of 1278 🔗

There is no rational excuse.

There’s liars and fabulators about. And they don’t come from Sweden.

107129 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 5, #1121 of 1278 🔗

That’s why!
Pure spite.

107105 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1122 of 1278 🔗

Don’t forget Gibraltar.No need for any to quarantaine although six time higher 119 but I suppose Gibraltar is UK and the virus respect that

107017 wendy, replying to wendy, 16, #1123 of 1278 🔗

Folks, Freddie Sayers has interviewed Michael Levitt today on Unherd. It’s an excellent interview. He does believe we need to get back to normal now. Stop all these measures.

He is not very impressed with WHO and thinks ZeroCovid is a big mistake likely leading to end of western civilisation, he’s not sure how damaged it will be after this.

107032 ▶▶ RickH, replying to wendy, 7, #1124 of 1278 🔗

Thanks for that shout-out. Michael Levitt has been a constant voice of reason in the wilderness.

107033 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to wendy, #1125 of 1278 🔗
107054 ▶▶ IanE, replying to wendy, 4, #1126 of 1278 🔗

Well, to start with, there is a lot of us who have been damaged financially, emotionally and physically! To usurp the title of a short sci-fi that I read many years ago, ‘I have no mouth, and I must scream’.

107018 WhyNow, 11, #1127 of 1278 🔗

I am awaiting the government de-radicalisation programme with interest.

Community leaders will be paid to go out into the community and explain that, thanks to clever government scientists and epidemiologists working closely together, the virus has been defeated and it is now safe to go back to your job cleaning toilets, emptying waste paper baskets, and selling sandwiches.

It might be slightly harder to convince the judges, the quangos, the social workers, the GP’s, the various government bodies, to go back to work. They have managed for six months with “working from home”. Why go back at all?

107019 PaulC, replying to PaulC, 21, #1128 of 1278 🔗

Noticed the Daily Mail is carrying a story about Jed Mercurio (‘Line of Duty’ writer) complaining on Twitter because BA didn’t challenge two passengers on a flight to Belfast who were not wearing facemasks. Rather impressed with BA who said it was not their policy to do so, as this was a government policy and there are exemptions. I don’t do Twitter but would have liked to point out to Mr Mercurio that not all disabilities are visible; and it is really depressing to be challenged (as I have been twice – albeit wearing a lanyard) by total strangers who feel they now have a right to confront an apparent non-conformist.

107068 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to PaulC, 2, #1129 of 1278 🔗

Story is here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8673731/Line-Duty-writer-Jed-Mercurio-says-flight-attendants-blame-second-lockdown.html . As he was muzzled, is he saying that the virus can get through his muzzle but wouldn’t have escaped the passengers behind him muzzles? Anyway what are chances they were infectious. Comments a bit depressing .

107078 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to arfurmo, 9, #1130 of 1278 🔗

The idea of wearing masks on aircraft strikes me as particularly absurd. You’re sitting in a big tin can, breathing the same air as everyone else. What’s the point of a mask, other than as a comfort blanket for the worried well?

In fact, you’re allowed to remove your mask to consume refreshments, so if you make your drinks and snacks last you can go for most of the flight without a mask anyway!

107161 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to DJ Dod, 3, #1131 of 1278 🔗

Exactly what I did on the flight back from Portugal recently, luckily different flight attendants who were more relaxed, one even had their mask down halfway down the aisle before realising he hadn’t put it back up again! Discussed this with elderly full on lockdown believer acquaintances who asked about the safety of travelling (I know, makes me angry too) who can see the absurdity that eating means you can’t spread the virus. It’s either all or nothing, no eating or drinking keep the mask on to prevent the spread of the deadly disease, or not at all because it doesn’t make a blind bit of difference!

107246 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to DJ Dod, 4, #1132 of 1278 🔗

Masks on planes is insane. The air in an aircraft cabin is constantly changed and replaced with air from the outside of the aircraft then it is vented outside. The volume of air that is in circulation through the cabin constantly is enormous.
I think most people think that the air in an aircraft’s cabin is re-cycled or it is the same air you shut in before you take off that you land with.

107152 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to PaulC, 3, #1133 of 1278 🔗

No such luck in Hygiene Fascho Merkel Land.
LH now won’t accept medical certificates that exempt one from wearing a mask anymore, because of too many bedwetting customers complaints.
You now have to get an additional official doctor’s certificate on an LH form, plus a negative test, if you want to fly muzzle free.
Thanks but no thanks.
Fingers xd that BA keeps its senses.
Somehow, I can’t see O’Leary falling for this anyway…

107259 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1134 of 1278 🔗

He can’t afford to. LH has a hefty subsidy from its government

107026 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1135 of 1278 🔗


Another so called reinfection in the Lancet.Prof Balloux not impressed

 “Another putative case of C-19 re-infection. Given the short time between the two infections (48 days), which is not much outside standard shedding time, and the genetic similarity between the two strains, this case should be taken with some caution.”

107045 ▶▶ Basics, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1136 of 1278 🔗

Is there anything to be said about the time relationship of these papers (3 now). Curious all come to light in the last week. Perhaps scientic study takes a similar lead time regardless of which area of the world is carrying out the study.

107077 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #1137 of 1278 🔗

They need to ramp up the fear again!

107229 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #1138 of 1278 🔗

It takes time to go through the process of study. Interesting timing or maybe just a coincudence. There’s an Oxford study just beginning to look into reinfections – on BBC News all day announcing this. It is a clear strand of the road to vaccine in my opinion.

107031 Nobody2020, 7, #1139 of 1278 🔗

The government is running the country as if they’re trying to sell a product that people aren’t sure they want or need.

A good advertising campaign can get people to believe that diamonds are rare and worth a months salary for an engagement ring (1) or make Japanese people queue up at Christmas for KFC (2).

Is this really how countries should be governed?

(1) https://priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-bullshit

(2) https://www.businessinsider.com/how-kfc-became-a-christmas-tradition-in-japan-2016-12?r=US&IR=T

107040 Lollipop, replying to Lollipop, 16, #1140 of 1278 🔗

New to posting. Now that we won’t have city centres can we do away with all the mayor’s. The less government the better. Just a suggestion.

107092 ▶▶ matt, replying to Lollipop, 7, #1141 of 1278 🔗

I can think of at least two current and one former mayor I’d like to see done away with.

107043 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1142 of 1278 🔗


In Scotland. Compare cumulative deaths per 100 000 week 49-week32 1999/2000 v 2019/2020

 Self-explanatory the included cartoons

107052 ▶▶ mjr, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1143 of 1278 🔗

graph below

107059 ▶▶ Basics, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1144 of 1278 🔗

Thanks have shared onwards to some who appreciate Kermit among the confusion of graphs.

107073 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1145 of 1278 🔗

How much clearer can you make it?

107048 mjr, replying to mjr, 14, #1146 of 1278 🔗

I have just had a regular update email from my local council to tell me that we must act now to avoid a local lockdown.. This is because although the number of “confirmed cases” (read.. positive tests) has reduced since last week it was still 0.011%. of the population.
FFS – approximately 1 in 10,000 of the population had a positive test last week. Only 0.4% of the population have tested positive since the whole thing started.

107058 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to mjr, 14, #1147 of 1278 🔗

All local councils suffer from institutional idiocy. That’s why this sort of bollocks is often to be seen.

107095 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to mjr, 1, #1148 of 1278 🔗

Had similar from mine a couple of weeks ago. Tonight’s update states that cases are declining but remain high. 19 cases in 7 days. Apparently we must act now to avoid a local lockdown. I imagine they’re all using the same template.

107099 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Charlie Blue, #1149 of 1278 🔗

i think its the same council with a regular fortnightly email on a friday night .. I think i recall you posting something a couple of weeks ago

107107 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to mjr, 1, #1150 of 1278 🔗

Hi there, neighbour!

107113 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Charlie Blue, #1151 of 1278 🔗

hi…. and 685 total cases……….. check!

107119 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to mjr, 2, #1152 of 1278 🔗

Yep. It’s a match! Strange but true to say I feel less alone knowing there are at least 3 of us in the borough (next-door-but-one neighbour also enlightened).

107170 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #1153 of 1278 🔗

there’s a lot more.. Went to Aldi this morning – unmasked as always and chatted to a few people who all thought it was pants . And even thought lots of people are masked up no one has ever passed comment about my being unmasked, It does seem a fairly laid back and non judgemental area

107136 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to mjr, 1, #1154 of 1278 🔗

Yes, that was me at a low point before LS gave me a bit more hope and resilience!

107131 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Charlie Blue, #1155 of 1278 🔗

How exactly are they expecting you to ‘act now’? Take your clothes off and dance in the streets?

107134 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Bella, 2, #1156 of 1278 🔗

Generally I’m quite reserved, but right now your option sounds far more appealing than masking up and hiding away!

107276 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to mjr, 2, #1157 of 1278 🔗

I have just had an email from our local council as well. Warning that with summer coming it’s important to remember social distancing on the beaches. Towels 1.5 metres apart and no groups larger than 10. From end of March to end of May non stop loud speaker announcements wafting up from the beach area berating people for standing too close together, sitting down, not moving on etc. At least winter has had some semblance of normality with people being able to enjoy the fresh air without hassle. I am just waiting for some muggins to decide to close the ocean pools and then there will be real trouble. 😈

107063 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 38, #1158 of 1278 🔗

It would be interesting to see what measures governments and businesses would take if we had an actual deadly virus. I’m guessing not many of the ones that have been taken.

Don’t think you’d see people wearing masks and face shields, pissing around queuing and walking one way round shops if we had an actual deadly virus. We definitely wouldn’t have governments begging people to be tested.

Enough is enough now. Time to end the nonsense. It’s farcical and has been for months. It’s really fucking boring now.

107140 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Hubes, 2, #1159 of 1278 🔗

I am also interested in what would we do if there was a genuine pandemic. In particular I would governments have to resort to draconian laws or would this be unnecessary as people would voluntarily take precautions.

107146 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Hubes, 2, #1160 of 1278 🔗

And let’s not forget that we have now all, bar Sweden, blown all of our financial resources to address such a truly deadly virus for at least the next 50 years.
As for the upcoming viruses Covid 20, 21, 22 FF et. al that might have a similar IFR as Covid 19, the same is obviously true.
Which is something more and more people seem to grasp.

107065 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 19, #1161 of 1278 🔗

Amsterdam and Rotterdam stop requiring face masks in busy places
“Amsterdam and Rotterdam are stopping an experiment with face masks in busy places at the end of August. Both said that they were halting the experiment ‘as planned’ and will be waiting for the results of investigations to see how effective the measures have been.

” Last weekend, it announced that enforcement officers had handed out 148 fines of €95 for non-compliance, reported the Parool. However, when reporters including DutchNews.nl visited the Red Light District – one compulsory area – the majority of people on the streets appeared not to be wearing them. Some reports suggested that only 20% were following the rules, increasing to 80% if street wardens intervened.There has, however, been constant scepticism from the RIVM public health institute about how effective non-medical face masks are in preventing the spread of the coronavirus in real-life situations. The government has instead emphasised the importance of limiting visitors at home and keeping a 1.5m distance.”

107076 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1162 of 1278 🔗

Anyone else out there, suspicious like me, wondering if rules re masks are being relaxed in places where ‘they’ have now completed trials for (and/or the installation of) facial tracking technology that’s been adapted to recognise people, even if wearing masks?

107084 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Carrie, 4, #1163 of 1278 🔗

Interesting angle, this has been a great opportunity to fine tune facial recognition technology that scans the eyes and forehead only.

However I doubt mask rules will be relaxed any time soon (like never). It is such a perfect tool of oppression.

107121 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, #1164 of 1278 🔗

Oh I agree about them being a tool of oppression – as you say, they will try and keep inflicting them back on us, every time there are pockets of ‘rebellion’ to other measures. Which is why the extra technology is needed..

107127 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Carrie, 3, #1165 of 1278 🔗

If we allow it to happen, the Chinese-style social credit score system will be an absolute nightmare. Rather than the threat of fixed penalty notices for not wearing a mask in public, every infraction caught on camera will result in automatic penalty points deductions. Below a certain threshold you will then be denied access to essential goods and services.

107125 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, #1166 of 1278 🔗

No, I think it’s just a spark of elementary common sense.

107167 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to annie, 2, #1167 of 1278 🔗

Agree. The dominoes will fall with respect to masks, because the evidence all points in one direction and they are horribly unpleasant. At some point, people’s patience wears out. Additionally, we can easily look to places with no masks and nobody dying. When you are fearful of everyone around you getting sick and dying, it is impactful (eventually) when you can look around and see that nobody actually is.

107071 KevTheSoutherner, replying to KevTheSoutherner, 13, #1168 of 1278 🔗

Just got back from Sainsbury’s in Warrington in Cheshire. A depressing sight as me and Mrs Kev were the only ones not wearing face masks (me because I don’t want to, she because she gets anxiety wearing one), apart from most of the staff including the lady who served us at the till who must have been approaching 70 and remarked how nice it was to see someone’s face for a change.

Found myself spending the entire trip avoiding eye contact with the muzzles approaching me and by the end I think I had contracted the wife’s anxiety, so depressing was the whole event. While no one directly questioned why we weren’t wearing masks, but we felt distinctly uncomfortable. It was an interesting comparison with Tesco in Widnes last week where half the shop was mask less and I genuinely thought we were making some progress with regards to non-compliance.

Which made me wonder… are the middle classes more scared/compliant of the mask rule than others who might politely be described as being lower down the social pecking order?

107081 ▶▶ Lili, replying to KevTheSoutherner, 6, #1169 of 1278 🔗

It’s the fine that’s done it. Barely anyone wore these things right up until 24th July when they were made mandatory on pain of £100 fine.

107115 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Lili, 4, #1170 of 1278 🔗

Has anyone actually been fined?

107193 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to KevTheSoutherner, 4, #1171 of 1278 🔗

I’m sure that’s it. Middle class people seem much more compliant but maybe I shouldn’t generalise.

We’ve just been for a curry. Not a mask in the place, as per usual. However, 2 women were sat waiting for takeaway, both masked. One had her hands actually on the mask, holding it away from her face all the time. The joke is, the owner doesn’t insist on takeaway customers wearing them so hardly anyone does, normally.

Assuming the two daft sods were capable of it, I wonder what they were thinking. Were they keeping everyone else in there safe? Is the virus so genius it knows to come and get you if you eat takeaway rather than dining in? Whatever, the cognitive dissonance must be sending them even more crazed than they already are! MW

107205 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #1172 of 1278 🔗

The bourgeois Guardian readers around here who will normally criticise the government at the drop of a hat, are the most conformist automatons.

107198 ▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to KevTheSoutherner, 5, #1173 of 1278 🔗

Went to local chippy tonight. Took my exempt lanyard as I’d noticed walking past earlier they had a rather belligerent looking sign demanding muzzle compliance. Needn’t have worried – 2 customers before me both unmuzzled and 2 others had them around their chins. No questions asked and stress free.

107237 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to KevTheSoutherner, 2, #1174 of 1278 🔗

Make eye contact. They nearly all avoid it, and you’ll feel miles better.

107275 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to KevTheSoutherner, 1, #1175 of 1278 🔗

Fuck them, look them I’m the eye and watch them look away or down at their shoes.

107074 Paul, replying to Paul, 28, #1176 of 1278 🔗

My dad,in his late 70s,has arranged an appointment at Specsavers tomorrow.

‘You’ll need a face covering’ says the woman on the phone,
‘No I won’t thankyou’ says my dad,
‘but you have to’,replies woman,
No I don’t,I’m exempt’ my dad informs her,
‘oh,well,er,well,I suppose that’s okay’ she says.
Too right it’s okay,Specsavers seem to have a bad attitude to mask exempt customers and my dad is geared up not to take any shit from them !,he’s fully ready with a detailed take-down if they start on him.

Also today a big brave man called my wife,who can’t wear a mask for medical reasons,’a f**ker with no f**king mask’,if I’d been there he would have been a f**ker with a f**king broken nose.

107083 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 16, #1177 of 1278 🔗

The incident involving your wife reminded me of my own. It’s bullying pure and simple – had I been a bloke over six foot and built like rugby player or a black man or a black woman, bet no-one would have dared comment on be being unamuzzled.

107223 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #1178 of 1278 🔗

Yes,no-one has ever said a thing when I have been with her,I am over six foot and built like a rugby player,well,a little bit like one !.
She has been hassled or abused about a dozen times now,always by other customers in shops,she’s never had a single problem with staff.To her credit she has never risen to the challenge of the abuse and tries not to let it bother her although I think it does more so than she lets on.I am very proud of her and she continues to go where she wants without a muzzle even though she is usually the only person without a mask in every shop she goes into,a situation I find quite intimidating most of the time.

107271 ▶▶▶▶ Klein, replying to Paul, 1, #1179 of 1278 🔗

fucking wankers pick on women – I’ve yet to have anyone say anything to me.

107101 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Paul, 6, #1180 of 1278 🔗

I’m sorry to hear that about your wife. I have also had men being rude in an aggressive manner. Very unpleasant. Hope she is ok.

107224 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to watashi, 1, #1181 of 1278 🔗

Yes,she’s okay thankyou watashi.

107151 ▶▶ davews, replying to Paul, 3, #1182 of 1278 🔗

I have a Specsaver appointment on Wednesday. Forgot to ask about masks on the phone but will go in with my lanyard and see what happens… (dirty mask in pocket just in case…)

107188 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to davews, 4, #1183 of 1278 🔗

Don’t wear it! MW

107206 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Paul, 4, #1184 of 1278 🔗

Big brave man sounds like another James O’Brien….

107244 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Paul, 1, #1185 of 1278 🔗

Well done your old man, Paul !

107088 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 22, #1186 of 1278 🔗

At the optician: The unmasked receptionist asked me how I was. I said that I probably had every symptom of Covid19, according to a list I’d seen recently. It didn’t go down well so I smiled and said, ‘not really’. She then went through the prescribed list of questions, ‘Do you have a new or persistent cough’. I said ‘yes’ and Karen’s (yes the optician is really called Karen but she’s OK!) voice drifted through from the back, ‘It’s not new, is it, Miriam?’. ‘No, I’ve had it since December’. OK, next question, ‘Do you have Covid19?’, ‘I honestly don’t know but I don’t think so.’ etc. etc. Anyway, I seemed to pass and I apologised for my flippant attitude. I shouldn’t make war on them.

Karen has to wear the full bollox, mask, visor, gloves and apron, it all has to be thrown away after each patient. She can keep the mask on though and it’s making her gums hurt and she can’t breathe a lot of the time. She said they can’t claim exemptions. Basically she’s a LS and is really pissed off about it all. She thinks the schools will get closed down really quickly as the kids are bound to get colds etc and she’s worried she’ll have to keep taking time off.

Get this, though, her husband works for Astra Zeneca and she thinks the vaccine will be fine, just like the flu vaccine and no problem that they’re rushing it through (!!) Hmmm. We agreed to differ on that one but then she suddenly said she didn’t understand why a vaccine was needed anyway, especially for anyone who isn’t at risk from Covid.

She also told me that a dentist friend of hers had, along with several others, donated all his PPE to the NHS at the beginning. When they were given 1 day’s notice to re-open there was no PPE to be had for them and she had to lend him some. Nice one, NHS!

Finally, she says she is seeing lots of patients who are really depressed and struggling and she’s really worried about them. Surely more people are going to start noticing this, soon. Meanwhile two people we know, 1 of them family, are total lockdownistas and showing clear signs of going very bonkers. It’s not looking good. MW

107096 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #1187 of 1278 🔗

Anyone in favour of lockdown etc. who is suffering should not receive any sympathy whatsoever. They are getting exactly what they deserve.

I do feel genuinely sorry for caring/sensitive/shy people who are probably going along to get along out of sheer terror. Thankfully I am not burdened with any of these character traits.

107230 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, #1188 of 1278 🔗

They’ve been hypnotized by nasty people, Richard. Yes, maybe they could have been more aware/stronger/wiser before it all happened, but they weren’t. They need fixing.

107137 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #1189 of 1278 🔗

Sounds terrible, nothing like that at our local outfit. I was asked to wear a surgical mask and did so to avoid giving them a hard time. At one stage in the eye exam (close up look at eyes) the optician reached round the plastic screen to lift my drooping (genetic) eyelids with his finger. I could have hugged him too! Our town was known for bricks, gunpowder and beer making. Only beer left but that pragmatic view of life remains I like to think.

107187 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #1190 of 1278 🔗

The optician was done up like a dog’s dinner but I was maskless! Your optician sounds sensible. I think mine just is scared of losing her business. MW

107097 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1191 of 1278 🔗

Local mockdowns eased in piecemeal but more sensible fashion.
Can’t believe how self-righteous and clueless some of the commenters are:

While some people agree that some parts of Bradford should remain in lockdown because they were not abiding by the rules others do not think its fair.

Here’s a typical example:

One resident from Bradford agreed with the decision as not enough people were abiding by the rules.
Jules, from Heaton, said: “I think it’s fair. If they’re still keeping the rules it’s because not enough people are following them.
“Obviously in those places (where restrictions have been lifted) people have done as they’re told, wearing masks and not having parties.”

107102 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1192 of 1278 🔗

Jules from Heaton obviously missing a chromosome or two. He might need the vaccine to fill in the gaps.

107103 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard O, 7, #1193 of 1278 🔗

Maybe only looks like a human, but isn’t one. Maybe my plumber was right – we’re surrounded by reptiles in human form

107110 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Julian, 11, #1194 of 1278 🔗

The brainwashing has definitely resulted in what I can only describe as possession. The more severe cases I have encountered are positively demonic, there is a really malevolent energy about them.

107191 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Richard O, 1, #1195 of 1278 🔗

You may be right about the malevolence.

PJW: Cancel Culture Psychopaths

A video explaining how the biggest virtue signallers have one or more of the three dark triad personality traits, i.e. narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy.

107226 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, 2, #1196 of 1278 🔗

Useful shorthand = arseholes.

107225 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, 1, #1197 of 1278 🔗

I’ve felt this too, Richard, and think possession is an accurate term.

107189 ▶▶▶ Old Mum, replying to Richard O, #1198 of 1278 🔗

That made me LOL!

107120 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1199 of 1278 🔗

I read that as not having panties which amused me greatly. Wearing masks instead of panties sounds like a wonderful new fetish

107199 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella, #1200 of 1278 🔗

Or the other way around….

107122 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1201 of 1278 🔗

Reminds me of a story a few years ago of some footballer who had killed someone while driving 4 times over the limit. The call was for a reduction in the drink driving limit.

107118 Bella, replying to Bella, 19, #1202 of 1278 🔗

Accidentally run into a BBC programme tonight. God they’re still pushing the Covid agenda as a deadly disease, track and trace, stay alert. We need to stay alert for charlatans masquerading as broadcasters for their master charlatans the politicians

107159 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 5, #1203 of 1278 🔗

BBC = evil

107185 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, 3, #1204 of 1278 🔗

It’s always served those who seek to rule us. Orwell condemned it as an imperialist propaganda machine, which it once was (no mea culpa, no call for defunding of itself from the modern BBC). Reith was openly pro-fascist. The 21st century BBC wants us to be ruled by censoring IT billionaires, sinister billionaire “philanthropists”,
PC academics, Far Left extremists and race-obsessed BLM activists.

107253 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 1, #1205 of 1278 🔗

The BBC IS Mi7

107260 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1206 of 1278 🔗

Welcome back Two-Six. Hope you had a nice time away. Now where is KH? Not heard from her in days.

107163 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Bella, 3, #1207 of 1278 🔗

And now showing first night of the proms.. BBC trying to pretend they are cultural .. No audience and the orchestra two trombones apart . Bet they would love to have an audience there. Shame the MSM has made everyone so scared there cant be one. As a tv spectacle it is appalling . Wonder what audience size they will get….

107166 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 7, #1208 of 1278 🔗

coincidentally BBC1 is now showing “Would I lie to you”.. I think the unanimous answer is Yes they would

107184 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to mjr, 1, #1209 of 1278 🔗

If there was an audience, I would hope for a large protest of hundreds of audience members singing “Land of Hope and Glory”. The BBC producers are probably relieved not to have an audience.
I do not watch any BBC content now, but may listen to radio 3 in the car. I want to cancel my licence, but as far as I know Cbeebies still is the best content for young children.

107222 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to James007, 5, #1210 of 1278 🔗

There is no ‘best’ content for young kids, James. Sitting watching rain on windows is far preferable to anything on the idiot box.

107173 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella, 5, #1211 of 1278 🔗

They had Far Left Communist extremist SAGE advisor Susan Michie on Newsnight yedterday and gave her free rein to spread lying propaganda about office workers being in mortal danger from Covid.

107175 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 3, #1212 of 1278 🔗

Yup, evil

107126 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 4, #1213 of 1278 🔗

Just back from a few days away in a remote part of Wales. Just checking – ‘ARE WE BACK TO NORMAL?

107128 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Steeve, 2, #1214 of 1278 🔗

I really dont want to go back to England. Wales is the best!!

107208 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to CGL, 1, #1215 of 1278 🔗

You can have refugee status here if you want.

107256 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steeve, 4, #1216 of 1278 🔗

I have just been over that way, it was pretty normal. However we were just sat in fields surrounded with actual four legged sheep. Much more agreeable than the general UK population. That said shopping with no mandatory face nappies was a joy, we walked about the shop giggling like naughty school children.

107138 Lord Rickmansworth, 2, #1217 of 1278 🔗

EPISODE 4 IS HERE! Today we talk about the University Health NKVD, fools on Twitter, plus is the awakening happening in Europe? Get you fix below!

107141 Tenchy, 3, #1218 of 1278 🔗

A potentially worrying development from Spain. This from The Telegraph live feed (my emphasis):

Coronavirus-denier arrested in Spain for inciting hatred and violence on social media

A man who branded the coronavirus pandemic a “hoax” has been arrested in Spain for inciting hatred and violence.

The 38-year-old, who claimed health professionals and the media were behind what he called the “Covid farce”, urged his social media followers to attack politicians and journalists, police said .

Passing himself off as a government official, police said the suspect allegedly made calls to nursing homes, hospitals and football clubs to spread false information about the pandemic.

Detectives were able to trace the man, described as a “grave danger” to public health, to a location just outside Zaragoza, the capital of Aragon.

So what precisely, I wonder, is meant by “attack”?

107154 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #1219 of 1278 🔗

Ich bin ein Berliner!

Robert Kennedy Jr will be at the protests tomorrow in Berlin.


Predicted crowd numbers are big.

107157 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Basics, 4, #1220 of 1278 🔗

I am still a jelly doughnut

107186 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RyanM, 2, #1221 of 1278 🔗

It’s not what it’s who said it!

Seems to be an amount of genuine excitement over tomorrows events. Hard to work out but certainly suggest people keep an eye on any live streams. Ruptly youtube channel will be streaming live without commentary from within the crowd.

107273 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Basics, 3, #1222 of 1278 🔗

That man is a jeffing hero.

I hadn’t come across his work before this CCP Virus nonsense.

107177 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #1223 of 1278 🔗

I don’t know where I came across this link. It could have been here, but starting at about 32 mins in it starts to deal with the question “what can we do?” and the rest of the video deals with a possible process that work here.


107279 ▶▶ DomW, replying to PastImperfect, #1224 of 1278 🔗

Chilling but fantastic video.

I love the simple (starting point) answer to the question – What can we do ?

“We will not comply”

That would be an awesome chant for the demo tomorrow. I do hope that someone tries to get it up and running at some point 😉

107182 Julian, replying to Julian, 8, #1225 of 1278 🔗

Sweden daily cases 7 day rolling average = 215, so cumulative 7 day = 1,505

Population 10,109,203

So cumulative last 7 days cases per 100,000 = 1,505 * 100,000 / 10,109, 203 = 14.89

Threshold for travel corridor to UK = 20

So arrivals from Sweden should be exempt from quarantine as at next review

Is my arithmetic and understanding correct?

Just preparing my case for MP, FCO, whoever else I can think of

Start something trending on Twitter?

Any advice appreciated

(Data from Worldometers)

107202 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 4, #1226 of 1278 🔗

Well this is from the Public Health agency re testing here in Sweden:

‘Incorrect test results in about 3,700 covid-19 tests
Two Swedish laboratories have discovered deficiencies in a CE-marked so-called test kit that was used to show an ongoing covid-19 infection. Due to the error, the test method has not been able to distinguish between low levels of covid-19 virus and a negative sample.
The error has led to about 3,700 people sampled in nine different regions having probably received false positive results. They have thus been incorrectly informed that they have a covid-19 infection.

All concerned will be contacted no later than Thursday 27 August about what has happened and have their test results withdrawn. Since it has been several weeks since the current samples were taken, it does not make sense to do new tests for those who at the time suspected they had been infected. However, those concerned will be offered a free antibody test by each care provider in their region. An antibody test can in some cases detect a previous covid-19 infection . If you have been tested for covid-19 and have not been contacted by Thursday 27 August, you can therefore count on your test result being correct.

The two laboratories, with the support of the Swedish Public Health Agency and the regions concerned, have investigated the shortcomings and can state that the test kit does not maintain the quality specified by the supplier. The two affected laboratories, the National Pandemic Center at Karolinska Institutet and ABC-labs, have rectified the identified deficiencies and all samples that have been analyzed after 15 August are correct.

The error occurred in a CE-marked commercial test kit made in China by BGI Biotechnology (Wuhan) Co. Ltd. CE marking means that the product must comply with basic requirements for, for example, health and safety and that a certain control procedure has been followed. The test kit has been exported from China to many other countries besides Sweden. The Swedish Public Health Agency has informed the corresponding authorities in Europe and the WHO of what has happened. The incorrect test kit has also been reported to the Medical Products Agency.

The two laboratories have analyzed samples from several regions, including Stockholm and Västra Götaland. It is mainly people who have had mild symptoms or have not felt any symptoms at the time of the test who have received false positive answers.’

*Interesting that the accuracy of the antibody test is questioned here!* Also that the faulty kits were from China…

107197 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1227 of 1278 🔗

NHS withdrawing support for carehomes during lockdown.

Simon Dolan has tweeted out the relevant passage from a letter he has recieved from a relative of someone in a carehome.

See the passage here:


107234 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 1, #1228 of 1278 🔗

People are just not seeing this they are only seeing how good the NHS is being.

107204 richard riewer, #1229 of 1278 🔗
107215 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #1230 of 1278 🔗

How many of you are going on the demo tomorrow? I am gutted that because of family commitments I can’t go, but I only found out about it last week. I will go on any future ones if we can get it organised so there is plenty of notice and I can organise child and dog care in good time. I am certain there are several million of us now. We do need to mobilise so they can’t ignore/ridicule us any more. To all those going, Thank You.

107217 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Chris Hume, 5, #1231 of 1278 🔗

I’m there!

107219 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to DomW, 4, #1232 of 1278 🔗

Good man!

107233 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #1233 of 1278 🔗

I’m going. 3 hr train journey for me but this is too important to sit out.

107239 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Chicot, 4, #1234 of 1278 🔗

Thank you. I promise I will be on the next one. I feel terrible not being there tomorrow. My wife who is generally a LS and supports me, has a hen do this weekend so I am looking after kids and dog.

107243 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #1235 of 1278 🔗

I hope to be there Chris. Might even see some Gooners I can irritate on the way. 🙂

Don’t feel bad though – your letter to the school was very good, helped a load of people. And unless Johnson falls on his sword, there’ll be other demos.

107267 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to JohnB, 1, #1236 of 1278 🔗

Thanks John. Got a rather pathetic reply from the Headmaster which I will post tomorrow. He took over from a great Headmaster last year, and is according to my daughter, very weak. Keep irritating the Gooners, as a Leeds fan from Essex I find them the most annoying ‘woke’ pro- lockdown of all.

107269 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to JohnB, 1, #1237 of 1278 🔗

Haha feel free to irritate any masked Gooners but any sporting a full face are your comrades.
a Gooner in Canada

107272 ▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Eddie, 1, #1238 of 1278 🔗

Fair play Eddie. 1972 😄

107227 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #1239 of 1278 🔗

The future history of Covid19 book will have one of its biggest chapters dedicated to the folly of New Zealand. St Jacinda has now decided to release Auckland from its level 3 lockdown on Monday ….. The New Zealand Media has since March been North Korean in its propaganda ; no dissent is allowed. I do find it therefore heartening that in an article published by the only NZ broadsheet that an opinion poll indicates 24 % of people do not find the policy of viral elimination credible. That such a number of people can oppose the government in what is a defacto authoritarian medical police state is tremendously encourageing .

Maybe as well as sheep in New Zealand there are free thinkers.


107290 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #1240 of 1278 🔗

Remember she locked down her country twice for less than ten deaths per million of the population.

Absolutely insane.

Edit, I had to check so gave myself wiggle room saying less than ten.

It’s 4, 4 people in every million

107296 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1241 of 1278 🔗

Yep total insanity.

107245 ▶▶ Richard Alldread, replying to richard riewer, #1243 of 1278 🔗


107247 Mark, replying to Mark, #1244 of 1278 🔗

Poll: Majority of Germans in favor of stricter COVID rules
An overwhelming majority of people in Germany support current regulations aimed at reducing the spread of coronavirus, or favor even stricter rules, according to a poll carried out by public broadcaster ZDF. A mere 10% considered the current regulations to be over-the-top.

With the number of new daily cases in Germany on the rise, 77% of those who took part in the poll agreed that stricter controls were necessary in order to keep the spread of the novel coronavirus in check.

Party affiliation made little difference with the majority of affiliates from most parties declaring their support for the current measures. The one exception was among supporters of the right-wing Alternative for Germany (AfD) party. Even among this group just under half of those surveyed were in favor of the restrictions .”

Pretty depressing stuff, though it’s nice to see the AfD support (5.8m votes, 12.6% at last Federal election) at least holding out to some extent. When you are excluded from much of the public square as politically taboo, it does make you less likely to buy into mainstream media propaganda. AfD supporters know as an absolute certain fact that the mainstream media lie all the time.

The depressing figure of around 10% dissenters is supported by the YouGov poll also mentioned:

Meanwhile, a separate poll by YouGov published on Friday found that most Germans supported letting the annual Christmas markets go ahead, provided rules were imposed designed to limit the danger of transmission. Of just over 1,000 people surveyed, 41% approved, provided coronavirus hygiene measures were incorporated. Another 11% approved even if no additional restrictions were imposed, while 38% said they should be called off altogether .”

107252 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mark, 2, #1245 of 1278 🔗

I think the situation is more complex.There are in the Green party some dissenters like Dr Wodarg,who I think was a green MEP,so much more diverse than supected

107262 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, #1246 of 1278 🔗

Without looking at the full results, the suggestion is that majorities in all the main parties except AfD support the panic. Presumably that would be CDU/CSU, SPD, FPD, Left and Greens

For sure there will be dissenters in each of the parties, but not very many, apparently. That said, CDU/CSU and SPD vote numbers were each around twice AfD, so that would bring absolute numbers closer, but Greens polled a lot less than AfD at the last Federal election.

107257 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Mark, 3, #1247 of 1278 🔗

Watch the press conference of Michael Ballweg and Ralph Ludwig from Querdenken 711 and Imitators of the Demo in Berlin on Saturday, 29th on their YT channel. The man from the ZDF tried again and again to put words into their mouth saying the demo participants are all out to infect loads of people. He was a disgrace to serious journalism.

107263 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Silke David, 2, #1248 of 1278 🔗

Mainstream journalist lying and trying to smear is rather a “dog bites man”story for lockdown sceptics….

107270 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Silke David, #1249 of 1278 🔗

Except not serious journalism

107268 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark, 5, #1250 of 1278 🔗

I don’t believe any of these polls. I have only once been polled – during the AIDS scare – by telephone when the question was ‘Was I prepared to change my sexual activity in light of the AIDS statistics/findings?’ Since I was celibate at the time I said no. So imagine where that went in the statistics. ‘People still being reckless, won’t change habits.’ It was the only doozy question, no qualifying follow up. These polls are bollocks, pollsters have no interest in pushing back against the establishment line. Speaking as someone who did not want Trump elected I went to bed that fateful November night with polls saying an 85% guaranteed win for Clinton. Look what happened.

107278 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bella, 4, #1251 of 1278 🔗

In the words of Sir Humphrey opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion not measuring

107286 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Bella, 4, #1252 of 1278 🔗

Correct Bella. I was polled back in April by ISM. Laughable. They give a series of leading questions that don’t allow you to tell them how you really feel.

107295 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella, 3, #1253 of 1278 🔗

You can tell when polls have been cooked. They suddenly narrow in the last week. That’s what happened with all those EU Referendum and 2016 US Presidential polls. Suddenly 5 to 10 point leads for Clinton and Remain shrank to 2 to 5 points. The earlier polls served the purpose of demoralising the opposition.

107310 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Mark, 1, #1254 of 1278 🔗

These polls just keep coming, but they don’t reflect a lot of people’s real world behaviour at all.

107249 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1255 of 1278 🔗


 Confusion from Spain.Aragon.
It says 22 Aug 493 cases from 4546 PCR tests 63% asymptomatic but only 1392 patients tested.
Do they take 3 PCR test for each patient? Or are they taken repeat tests on known pos and count them as new case?
And this rubbish is supposed to guide the response.

107289 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1256 of 1278 🔗

The Spanish doctor doing the rounds confirmed this. Someone posted a clip of him being interviewes and yes, a person tested 3 times in hospital is counted as 3 cases

107379 ▶▶ Will, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1257 of 1278 🔗

The desperation to maintain the fear levels is unbelievable.

107255 Liam, replying to Liam, 9, #1258 of 1278 🔗

“Should a nan, to preserve his life, pay everything that gives life colour, scent, excitement? Can one accept a life of digestion, respiration, muscular and brain activity- and nothing else? Is this not an exorbitant price? Is it not mockery?”

Solzhenitsyn, Cancer Ward.

107293 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Liam, 2, #1259 of 1278 🔗

Solzhenitsyn? Isn’t he a non-person in 2020 BBC-approved PC UK?

107294 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Liam, 2, #1260 of 1278 🔗

Boris would answer: yes, yes, no and no. And that is why he must go, go, go.

107264 swedenborg, 7, #1261 of 1278 🔗


False positives in reverse transcription PCR testing for SARS-CoV-2

“Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned about the potential for false positives in RT-PCR testing, restricted testing to individuals most likely to have the disease to avoid generating excessive false positives, and required confirmation of positive results by a second test (10, 11). These warnings and requirements are absent from these organizations’ guidance on SARS-CoV-2 (12, 13). Perhaps they should be reinstated.”

107285 Bella, replying to Bella, 7, #1262 of 1278 🔗

There is a hashtag on Twitter #wearamask Running through it has made me want to shoot myself. Jesus, some allegedly intelligent people. Madness of crowds doesn’t come into it, these people are seriously unwell and the virtue signalling is making me want to bring up my wine. Don’t these people take note ot the statistics?

107297 ▶▶ Carlo, replying to Bella, 1, #1263 of 1278 🔗

There have been hashtags throughout this thing that piss me off.

107298 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to NonCompliant, #1265 of 1278 🔗

Greencore, sandwich makers to Asda, Tesco, M&S, Waitrose etc., failed to tell workers that a manager had tested positive back in May, so preventing them isolating, asked drivers and packers to go back to work when they were supposed to be isolating, had to close for a deep clean a week ago after 300 tested positive, and now the workers are under penalty of fines if they and household don’t self isolate:
Not reported how many are actually symptomatic, of course.

107303 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bruno, 5, #1266 of 1278 🔗

These concentrated outbreaks in places like abbatoirs or food processing plants are v misleading. They are simply concentrated examples of how the virus transmits. But the principal routes of transmission – big supermarkets – never feature as high risk because: (a) unlike for pubs, restaurants and other areas of social contact no direct records of attendance are kept and (b) the government would not wish to suggest that the places we get our food are “unsafe” (even though by the government’s own measure they clearly are).

107372 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to OKUK, 1, #1267 of 1278 🔗

Or were…

107359 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bruno, 2, #1268 of 1278 🔗

surely if this flagrant abuse of the regulations had actually had any impact we would have seen this in the figures.. but we havent . So we have 300 positive tests, so what ? Has anyone actually got the disease?

107299 OKUK, 4, #1269 of 1278 🔗

Newsnight tonight reporting on government worst case scenario for the winter period – 85,000 deaths. That is a very, very unlikely outcome . Were it to eventuate we would still cope. Even the government admit now that despite this effective doubling of the death rate under the worst case scenario they would still keep the schools open! So all the bollox about “if it saves a single life” has clearly been jettisoned. Good.

107302 TheRealRob, 7, #1270 of 1278 🔗

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is in Berlin!

I transcribed some of his words (I hope I got everything right!):

“Many people argue that this pandemic was a plandemic . That it was planned from the outset, that it’s part of a sinister scheme. I can’t tell you the answer to that. I don’t have enough evidence. A lot of it feels very planned to me. But I don’t know. I will tell you this: If you create these mechanisms for control, they become weapons of obedience. For all authoritarian regimes, no matter how beneficial or innocent the people who created them – once you create them, they will be abused. A 100% guarantee that they will be abused.
We wanna see the studies. We wanna see the studies on Hydroxychloroquine. We wanna see the studies on whether the lockdown is killing more people than the Corona virus. We wanna see real science and real risk assessment.
My father told me when I was a child: “People in authority lie”. If we are going to continue to live in a democracy, we need to understand that people in authority lie, people in authority will abuse every power that we will relinquish to them. And right now, we are giving them the power to micromanage every bit of our lives – 24 hours a day. They are going to know where we are, they are going to know the money that we spend, they have going to have access to our children, they have going the a right to compel unwanted medial interventions on us. The Nazis did that in the camps in World War II. They tested vaccines on Gypsies and Jews. The world was so horrified after the war, when we signed the Nuremberg charta. We all pledged: “We will never again impose unwanted medical interventions on human beings without informed consent” . And yet in two years all of that conviction has suddenly disappeared. People are walking around in masks, and the science has not been explained to them. They are doing what they’re told. These government agencies are orchestrating obedience – and it is not democratic. It’s not the product of democracy. It’s the product of a pharmaceutical driven bio security agenda that will enslave the entire human race and plunge us into a dystopian nightmare where the apocalyptical forces of ignorance and greed will be running our lives and ruining our children and destroying all the dreams and dignity that we hoped to give to our children.

The launch of this organisation: “Children’s Health Defense” in Europe […] it’s an announcement to the world: We are not going to take it. We are building institutions to fight your institutions. You have global institutions, and we now have a global institution.

And we are gonna be out tomorrow, with the biggest crowd in German history. And they are all gonna be saying peacefully the same thing: “We are not gonna let you take our democracy away. We are not gonna let you take our health away. We are not gonna let you take our freedoms away. We are not gonna let you take our children away. And I’m very proud of the people that I am sitting at this table with. People who have the courage to challenge – to speak truth to power. And to think independently. And to break away from the orthodoxies that are enslaving so much of the human race. Thank you.”

Watch the full video here:

107352 Steve Martindale, 8, #1271 of 1278 🔗

Am I going mad or has the rest of the world abandoned the rational, logical and questioning world of my youth and gone back to living in a world of sorcery, soothsaying, ju-ju and witch doctors? Matt Hancock is wringing his hands over a ‘second wave’
All this for a disease where as the Mail reported the average age of death is higher than average life expectancy;
There is talk today of closing schools if a pupil tests +ve ……….. for a disease that is less damaging to children than chicken pox!

What happened to the country where Nelson said ‘I see no signal’ and went on to win? there is certainly no Nelson in this Government or in the Health Authorities. Witless Whitty, Hapless Hancock and Buffoning Boris are displaying the worst sort of micro-management, rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic when what we need are people in charge who have vision and perspective who can step back and take an overall view of this madness.

In my view the evidence coming out on this virus indicates that we do not need to take broad brush action against the whole population and can now release most people and take a more sophisticated approach and target action on vulnerable people and institutions and potential areas for nosocomial infections. But there is little sign of this sort of sanity coming along any time soon, where is is Nelson, Churchill or Boadicea when we need them?

107362 mjr, 5, #1272 of 1278 🔗

Just been for my morning walk to feed the swans and pick brambles. Listened to last nights “Any Questions” ( really “any BBC approved questions”. It is so depressing. 3 MPs. con, lab and SNP. All non entities. All bedwetters. Numpty BBC host who toed the BBC line and directed the discussions down that path as she did with Toby last week. And sadly, Ian Dale was the fourth panellist and he was disappointing. I expected far more common sense and challenge from him.
Even the questions were from bedwetters.
Only one questioner had a decent questions. A landlord who had not had rent for 9 months from a working tenant. Of course she cannot evict this person as all tenants are protected. Unintended consequences of a dodgy, ill thought out law.
Now having breakfast and BBC news showing an interview with the outgoing BBC DG, Hall, Explains why the BBC is where it is now What a complete Islington liberal woke arsehole.
No more BBC today otherwise my gonads will explode

107384 swedenborg, 1, #1273 of 1278 🔗


Covid 19 coronavirus: Experts call for rethink on Auckland’s move to level 2
“Auckland University Professor Shaun Hendy, whose modelling has guided the Government’s response to date, said ministers should reconsider moving Auckland to alert level 2 on Monday – and if the change still goes ahead, employers should keep workers at home if possible.

“If you can work at home, you should continue to do so for the next few weeks,” he said.”
“Otago University Professor Michael Baker said Auckland should stay at least at a heightened “level 2.5” with the planned limit of 10 on social gatherings and everyone wearing masks in all indoor spaces outside their own homes.”
“Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern declined to comment today but is due to confirm alert levels at 1pm tomorrow.”
Is St Jacinda going to listen to her scientific advisors or not?

107398 swedenborg, 3, #1274 of 1278 🔗

Warning.Fake news BBC this morningCoronavirus: Children’s role in spread puzzles scientistsBBC says RNA fragments in high in PCR tests is the same as live transmissible virus.Dangerous misinformation.See the aricle quoted
“Thus, we could not answer the question about infectivity and the infectious period in this cohort study”
“The detection of virus RNA in respiratory specimens in this study does not necessarily imply that viable virus is present. However, if proven infectious (because most of the children were asymptomatic, were presymptomatic, or had unrecognizable symptoms in this study), the transmission potential of SARS-CoV-2 in children and its effect on the community might be greater than expected.” https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.25.20162107v2.full.pdf
“No live virus was isolated from any respiratory samples taken after day 8 of symptoms in three studies, or beyond day 9 despite persistently high viral RNA loads.”

107416 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1275 of 1278 🔗

Problem with democracy? BBC bias not reporting thing fairly? Covid19 measure being seen as positive even in local press?

The BBC has a solution for the problem. BBC Local Democracy Reporters. Journalists loaded into local news organisation at the pay (and say so) of the BBC.


A local evening rag in Edinburgh installed their LDR into the city chambers where he sat and simply reported what the council wanted. No investigation, just a conduit communicator between us and them.

Your local news will be laced with similar. Thay are not overtly acknowledged. Why?

107492 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 1, #1276 of 1278 🔗

wow! amazing discovery. i had never seen this before.. If you follow the link there further links to the detail – and the numbers involved. 144! One hundred and forty four. That is gross! (sorry!!). So the BBC pay for and embed 144 reporters with local newspaper organisations. For example 6 with the Manchester evening news, 5 with the Liverpool echo. And as Basics states, they are reporting on local politics – the mayors and the councils serving the boroughs that the newspapers cover, So what does a junior reporter earn. Say £25K. Including employer costs that’s around £4 million a year,

107461 Basileus, 3, #1277 of 1278 🔗

Interesting article in the local rag.

Mum’s face mask fury as Cotswold Outdoor in Newcastle asks her to prove daughter is deaf


‘The mum of a disabled girl who relies on lip reading says she was turned away from a Newcastle store for not wearing a mask.

The mum and daughter shopping trip ended in anger as she claims staff at the Cotswold Outdoor shop in Northumberland Street asked for proof that her child was deaf.
Full-time mum Julie Muller and her eight-year-old daughter Sadie-Grace Muller had gone to the camping shop on August 6 ahead of a trip to the Lake District.

However, Julie, 41, was stopped from entering as she was not wearing a mask.
She explained that she was exempt because her daughter is deaf and needs to lip read to communicate.”

‘Julie claims that the manager said that due to company policy, they could come in, but she would not be served without a mask, and so Julie decided not to stay.’

If this claim is upheld the manager and the company may have some tough questions to answer in light of the Disability Discrimination Act.

107495 mjr, #1278 of 1278 🔗



196 users made 1,254 comments today.

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