Last updated2020-08-29T16:09:57



107300 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 22, #1 of 907 🔗

I know Brits are very defensive of the NHS but… 7.5 weeks average waiting time in cardiology!? C’mon…

107301 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #2 of 907 🔗

Also, first. When do i get my club member card?

107305 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 27, #3 of 907 🔗

Not all of them, just the sheep suffering from cognitive dissonance who recite a variation of “Wah, wonder of the world, wah it’s really cheap, most americans can’t afford health care and are left to die in the street, NHS being sold to Trump by eeevil tories etc etc”, then there is the blanket refusal to look at Oz or Austria for example as better systems for health outcomes.

107329 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nessimmersion, 28, #4 of 907 🔗

Nor those whose relatives have died or become more seriously ill as a result of the NHS failing to deliver the services for which we have all our working lives.
These people have suffered not because Covid but because Reckless Lockdown.

107977 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to karenovirus, #5 of 907 🔗

That’s an issue about the political influence on the running of the NHS – i.e. the dire effect of this Tory government confecting this Covid narrative.

108077 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, #6 of 907 🔗

Unfortunately for your wish to blame the Tory govt, we aren’t thebonly country undergoing lockdown lunacy, police state behaviour and general maskholeness.

There is an answer of sorts and it is to remove politicians from the running of the health care system as thay have done in other countries.

107939 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nessimmersion, #7 of 907 🔗

The comparison with the massively expensive and inefficient failure of the US system just happens to be true. Lame market-driven hobby-horses from don’t strengthen the core argument here.

108078 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, 1, #8 of 907 🔗

Why are you comparing the NHS with the US when there are 20 variations on Bismarkian social insurance to compare it with or indeed Australia or Japan.

107364 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 9, #9 of 907 🔗

In the NHS you pay by time not money. You can’t jump to the top of the queue just because you have a wad of cash and a mild sense of unease about your angina.

People are in a priority queue based upon clinical need, not ability to pay. And we don’t have enough cardiologists – largely because quite a few work in the private medical system as well.

If the UK wanted to reduce waiting times overall, we’d have to close private hospitals that are currently using scarce cardiologists to treat people with money rather than people with need.

In any supply limited system, medicine and education being the main ones, private will necessarily poach from the public one.

Supply expansion of cardiologists takes decades – assuming you can find any more people with the ability and desire to be one.

107365 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lucan Grey, 17, #10 of 907 🔗

And if you close off the route to private practice for cardiologists, then you reduce the supply of cardiologists because fewer people will want to be a cardiologist if they have no route to earning extra money on top of their NHS salary. C.f. also oncologists, surgeons and any other specialisms.

107383 ▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to matt, 2, #11 of 907 🔗

And what would they do instead that is going to pay them any more?

You can only reduce the supply if there is an alternative for them (which is what happens at the nursing level). And please don’t use the “go abroad” line. If they were going to do that they’d have done it already. Family and social ties hold people in a place – even cardiologists.

Public health is a monopoly, and monopoly rules apply.

This idea that private provision does anything other than poach capacity is another “private good, public bad” fantasy. They don’t really get involved in training.

107390 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lucan Grey, 18, #12 of 907 🔗

I don’t know – train to do something different in the first place? If they’re already trained, then move to a different country with a different system where they can earn more money practicing their specialism? Or retire a little earlier than they otherwise would, rather than work just as hard for a reduced income? There isn’t a finite stock of proto-cardiologists sitting around destined to become only that. As you’ve noted, it takes a long time to take someone with relevant A levels, put them through medical school and relevant training until they’re at the level of knowledge and experience to become a consultant cardiologist. Many people put themselves through that process at least partly because of the rewards available at the end in terms of income. Any system that demands that people act purely out of altruism is destined for failure.

107759 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to matt, #13 of 907 🔗

Totally agree with you Matt. Relatives of ours which are consultants would be businesswomen instead.

107905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to matt, 1, #14 of 907 🔗

“As you’ve noted, it takes a long time to take someone with relevant A levels, put them through medical school and relevant training until they’re at the level of knowledge and experience to become a consultant cardiologist. Many people put themselves through that process at least partly because of the rewards available at the end in terms of income.”

But in the UK hasn’t the state and society more generally paid for a lot of that education? This sounds a bit like a company that uses all of the public highways not wanting to pay road tax. Is there no more idealism connected to being a physician? Does the NHS pay so poorly that no cardiologist would be caught dead serving the NHS patient cohort? Especially since (in the USA, at least), I believe the poor have MORE heart problems than wealtlhier demographic groups.

Anyone who earns a professional degree can choose whether to go into the public or the private sector also as, e.g., a teacher, an atty) . But to assume that getting trained involves NO debts to society and that you are actively SUFFERING and DISADVANTAGED if you choose to work honorably in the public sector—IMO that does not wash. In fact t his attitude is the reason so many professionals have seen drastic drops in the respect they get from society in general. Greed. People who jsut wanna make money should go to work in the City .

I know a couple of UK doctors (spouses of relatives) and they had wonderful practices and careers with the NHS. I think one had private patients one or two days per week. Being a physician one of my in-laws was able to access some special care (a new protocol developed in a particular hospital) for his wife when she developed a rare form of leukemia. I felt that this was mete because he had devoted 90% of his career to being a caring general practitioner within the NHS.

108208 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Jane, #15 of 907 🔗

Good points. Thank you.

107466 ▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to Lucan Grey, 8, #16 of 907 🔗

Come and work in private sector clinical research, where pay for decent physicians is double or more what the NHS pays, and you don’t have to get your hands dirty.

But I suppose someone who would ban private practice because someone else needs my labour but won’t pay for it would also ban that option. And before we know it we would be living in an old eastern bloc-style state where the border guards have their guns pointing inwards.

108210 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Commander Jameson, #17 of 907 🔗

The NHS does not ‘ban’ private practice. There is plenty of room for that.

107813 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lucan Grey, #18 of 907 🔗

Most of them have already gone abroad, that’s how they got here.

108177 ▶▶▶▶ john, replying to matt, -1, #19 of 907 🔗

I think we (the UK) should tell doctors that with IT we can effecytvely do without the 7 year training program to produce doctors. I serious;y think doctors don’t realise they are a short step away from superfluous.

108211 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to john, #20 of 907 🔗

What a load of crap!

107392 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lucan Grey, 12, #21 of 907 🔗

While not agreeing with all you say the NHS does rely on rationing by waiting list hoping that you might cure yourself, go private or die before they have to do anything.
I have done both the first and second (chiropractor for pain relief) but not yet the third.

107617 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to karenovirus, 4, #22 of 907 🔗

What is really needed are small health centres where lifestyle, nutrition exercise and proper old fashioned health spa therapies are used. Help in holistic and vitamin supplementation etc. to have a preventative approach before any more radical treatments are needed.

107629 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to David Grimbleby, 5, #23 of 907 🔗

They called them Cottage Hospitals when I were lad, had my tonsils out at mine but they were mostly closed down only to be replaced with PFI Community Health Centres for NHS Trusts to play pass the parcel with.

107690 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to David Grimbleby, 1, #24 of 907 🔗

That is just what I say to people who talk about more funding for the NHS – what we really need is a complete healthcare re-think!

107922 ▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to David Grimbleby, 1, #25 of 907 🔗

Good idea, great ideal even… but at the risk of sounding negative I’m not convinced it will happen, certainly not on a widespread scale. Good health makes a lot of sense. It does not make a lot of money!

107696 ▶▶▶▶ Phoneutria, replying to karenovirus, 1, #26 of 907 🔗

Let’s be honest, once you’ve stopped working and thus no longer contribute to the economy, the government would like you to die. It’s cheaper.

107826 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to karenovirus, 3, #27 of 907 🔗

The lesson his that we should focus on prevention because we cannot depend on care from the NHS

107838 ▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to karenovirus, 1, #28 of 907 🔗

I agree. I have been trying since the beginning of December to get a diagnosis and treatment, other than just painkillers, from the NHS.
Gave up and contacted a registered chiropractor and was diagnosed and treatment begun 2 days later.

107417 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #29 of 907 🔗

I agree 100% with the principle of a national health service.

The “private good public bad” idea has some merit too though just because although private companies are often run by bungling and corrupt muppets they can only aspire to the level of excellence in those fields that even quite good governments are capable of.

107421 ▶▶▶ Bob, replying to Lucan Grey, 17, #30 of 907 🔗

Almost all private hospitals are currently closed anyway. They government had comedeered them all for the vast wave of non existent Covid deaths.

These are still comedeered and are basically not allowed to treat anyone else.

A friend who works for a drug supply company told me this a few weeks ago, then this weeks telegraph planet normal podcast confirmed it when a doctor confirmed it to Alison Pearson.

107423 ▶▶▶▶ Vsjshs, replying to Bob, 4, #31 of 907 🔗

I have been using private hospitals since May as NHS is useless. Cardio, GI, etc. Not closed.

107605 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to Vsjshs, 1, #32 of 907 🔗

Our local “private” hospital was shut up tight. Wife couldn’t get a scan done until 2 weeks ago. Been waiting for a new appointment since march

108215 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to steve, #33 of 907 🔗


107695 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Vsjshs, 1, #34 of 907 🔗

Happened to swing by our local private hospital about six weeks ago, usually car park is jammed tight but only a handful of cars and a couple of lights on. It looked pretty much closed. It’s a Spires hospital so not sure about other private hospitals.

107841 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Alison9, 1, #35 of 907 🔗

Our local Spires has been block-booked by the NHS. A friend going for NHS prostate treatment said he was the only patient.

107424 ▶▶▶▶ Bob, replying to Bob, 8, #36 of 907 🔗

In addition my friend told me the government had at the start told all the drug supply companies “we want as much of drugs xyz as you can get”
So all the supply companies stockpiled the drugs. Then a month or so in, no one needing the drugs so they still have warehouses full of them.

The issue is all this happened so fast there were no contracts in place, just letters of intent. Now the drug companies want paying but the government are refusing to pay up using the excuse that. “Second wave” is imminent and they will need the supplies then! My friend said it’s already with the lawyers…..

The same thing happed with the private hospitals. They turned away all their other patients to make room for the government expected pandemic. No contacts….. hospitals still closed and basically empty, expecting the government to pay for the empty beds.

107636 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bob, 1, #37 of 907 🔗

What do their paying customers/subscribers/members have to say about that?

107633 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bob, #38 of 907 🔗

Just so at my local Nuffield though they are now taking a few non Covid NHS patients to ease the backlog.

107512 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #39 of 907 🔗

I think the fundamental issue at the moment is not that we have to account for time lag in providing qualified doctors for specific areas – that should be normal future planning..
The problem is that the NHS has been virtually closed for 6 months to anything other than Covid and related illnesses. Hence the empty hospitals and lengthened waiting lists for treatments.

107808 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #40 of 907 🔗

If you have a wad of cash you don’t use the NHS, unless you are showboating like Boris Johnson.

107508 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 6, #41 of 907 🔗

yes – i am booking my impending stress related heart attack for middle of October . I think i can hold it off until then

107592 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to mjr, 4, #42 of 907 🔗

You may jest,but UK Column were reporting a few months ago about an appointment being needed for A&E.
Envy of the world

107307 aposoukh, replying to aposoukh, #43 of 907 🔗

How does one contact the editor to send some material?

107328 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to aposoukh, 2, #44 of 907 🔗

See the last link at the bottom of the daily “shameless begging” section above

107313 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 25, #45 of 907 🔗

Stupidity is trending and it’s a very contagious disease.

107351 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 7, #46 of 907 🔗

It’s congenital. And chronic, but flares up from time to time, though never so badly as now.

107324 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 1, #47 of 907 🔗


At around hour 2 25 minutes Seb Gorka interviews Mike Graham. They talk about the Last Night of the Proms and other subjects.

107590 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to richard riewer, 4, #48 of 907 🔗

Interesting question at the beginning of that, “If Trump self identified as a woman, would that make him the first female president of the US?” I can’t see him doing it!

107902 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alison9, 3, #49 of 907 🔗

But it would create a very interesting development in wokeism!

107941 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Alison9, 1, #50 of 907 🔗

IDK… maybe! Reminds me of the story about the British Rapper, Zuby who walked into the gym, identified as female, and then proceeded to immediately break the women’s deadlifting record ?! 🙂

107325 karenovirus, 7, #51 of 907 🔗

“Those who can make you believe in absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

Great video examining this in relation to lockdown.
YouTube Dave Cullen
channel = computing forever

(sorry, can’t do links from an Android).

107326 Arkleston, replying to Arkleston, 38, #52 of 907 🔗

To say that 2020 has caused me to self-reproach for choosing to live in a Blue State would be an understatement. But at least it’s not Melbourne – so far.

Picked up my prescription from CVS this week and the pharmacist asked me if I would like a flu shot. Easy No and she was fine with it. Could have prefaced it with Hell to the F, after what I experienced in 2019 when acquiescing to a flu shot for the first time ever, during my annual physical.

I had severe flu in my late 20’s that kept me in bed for 7 days. But never since then.

This flu vaccine last year… best way I can sum up its effect is that if I drew a line of latitude across the top of my nose and another line just below my shoulders, in between those lines it felt like I was swimming in garbage. Not a facsimile of illness – actual pollution.

So I don’t know if the Covid vaccine will be enforced at the end of a gun barrel, but it feels reassuring to have had at least one practice run of saying no to the needle.

107338 ▶▶ annie, replying to Arkleston, 25, #53 of 907 🔗

‘No’ is becoming a very important word.

107442 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Arkleston, 17, #54 of 907 🔗

This is where the silver lining of mass stupidity may appear for us.

There will probably be enough gullible Idiots out there who will dive head first into the vaccine programme that governments won’t feel the need to mandate it.

They created the hysteria, let them take the bullet for the rest of us and provide us with the artificial herd immunity. Hopefully the side effects won’t be too bad for them.

107451 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to stewart, 8, #55 of 907 🔗

Great point. The Covidista will want to achieve Neil Ferguson’s herd immunity threshold with the vaccine. It’s looking as though ~85% of people are gullible idiots who will rush straight over the top and take the first vaccine they are offered. In fact, they will take great pleasure from it, signalling their virtue in no uncertain terms. So there should be no need to mandate the vaccine.

Of course, the Covidista will know this, and it will irritate them that the independent minded minority are getting away with it. So I think they will still push to make it mandatory. It will be posited as ‘insurance’ or a ‘safety margin’.

107463 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 3, #56 of 907 🔗

Yes, useful Guinea Pigss the lot of them if they think a novel vaccine can be properly tested in a couple of months

107519 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, 6, #57 of 907 🔗

My optician, married to someone who works for Astra Zeneca, assures me that it will be quite safe because they’re using ‘dead DNA’ and that they develop a new flu vaccine every year so the fact that it’s only taking a few months is fine.

Having had a similar experience to Arkleston with the 2018 flu vaccine (quite likely one of the worst decisions I ever made since I believe it led to lots of respiratory problems which I still have) I do not feel very reassured. MW

p.s. I love Barney’s ‘going over the top’ analogy.

107527 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #58 of 907 🔗

Never had a flu jab, despite in recent years GP, my employer & pharmacies all pushing it at me.

I already suffer from bronchial problems and if I get an infection I find it very difficult to shift, on occasion having to resort to antibiotics, if it gets extremely bad.

So what MW about flu jab leading to respiratory problems, fill me with fear.

107576 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Dave #KBF, 9, #59 of 907 🔗

You are very sensible and I don’t want to fearmonger (we have experts for that 🙂 ). Anyway, I am asthmatic so I caved in to medical pressure to have the flu jab in autumn 2018. Interestingly, there were shortages that year and I felt ‘lucky’ to finally get one at our local pharmacy. James Corbett has a view on big pharma creating shortages to encourage vaccine take-up which was an aspect I hadn’t considered but of course it now seems obvious.

I can’t prove that the flu jab led to a 2019 with almost chronic and ever-worsening respiratory problems – it might have happened anyway – but some instinct made me reluctant to have another jab in late 2019 by which time I had developed quite severe bronchitis. My GP and the practice nurse did their damndest but I stuck to my guns. Given it was last December I don’t think I had CV19 but I’ll never know. AG caught it 3 weeks later.

Since then I have seen numerous references to studies indicating that the 2019 flu jab made people more prone to CV19. I think the correlation was first noticed in the US (military) and in Italy where it seemed to make the vulnerable elderly more prone to a serious bout of CV19.

I’ve checked online and, of course, the ‘fact-checkers’ are now all over this so it can’t be true, can it? But I did find these possibly ‘fringe’ sources:


‘Doctor Murray’ and the ‘Gateway Pundit’ sites also carry the story.

So, Dave, your sound instincts may well have protected you. And the good news is that we’re both fine, albeit with residual slight coughs and catarrh but we’re really fit for our ages and yomp up hills on foot and our bikes. We’ll resist mandatory vaccines as long as we’re able. MW

107910 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #60 of 907 🔗

I have never had the flu jab, despite blandishments. I don’t get sick and rarely even have a cold. But three years ago I got very sick in February. My sister, too, and some others. Really bad (headache, bad sore throat, lung congestion, couldn’t eat, headache, diarrhoea—the works, had to sleep all day), knocked me out for about two weeks (lost five pounds) and then took about three weeks to recover strength.

My reason for mentioning this is that I assume that that was a bad flu, and that I got some **** antibodies*** from it just for dealing with it and recovering.
No illness of any kind since then.
Not taking any jabs at all.

108236 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Jane, #61 of 907 🔗

This is why I welcome the odd illness with open arms. I don’t take a thing and just let my body deal with it. My last bout of the flu was almost 20 years ago

107822 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #62 of 907 🔗

My my she should stick to eyes – she is absolutely clueless

107510 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to stewart, 5, #63 of 907 🔗

They don’t intend to let anyone escape. That’s why they are developing the vaccine passports.

107517 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Saved To Death, 6, #64 of 907 🔗

I think Save To Death is correct, life is going to be made difficult for those not accepting the vaccines.

Do not necessarily think it will be mandatory, but formally simple pleasures will be made difficult or impossible.

Public transport, not if you are not vaccinated, breakfast at a cafe, not if you are not vaccinated, etc. etc.

107567 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Dave #KBF, 9, #65 of 907 🔗

i keep hearing this but that would require a massive electronic control grid where everyone is checked at every entrance. It ain’t gonna happen. They don’t know what they are doing, they are useless. Life will get back to normal slavery, you know why? Because it’s not stopped.

107646 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 4, #66 of 907 🔗

It’s already up and running in China Biker, every aspect of your life run by facial recognition; they don’t track your phone or your card they track you.

Enemy Of The State, Eddie Murphy, didn’t go nearly far enough in showing how they can cancel you at will.

They can read your face through a mask btw.

107945 ▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #68 of 907 🔗

Inclined to agree. Also look at other countries that have had to maintain large electronic databases with personal records – Israel, hacked. 7-odd million records. India, hacked. 1 billion records, inc. intimate personal info. Criminals will have no need for a vaccine passport; they will just take someone else’s!

107700 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stewart, 3, #69 of 907 🔗

If the side effects include infertility it will reduce the number of future zombies, can’t be bad.

107615 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Arkleston, 8, #70 of 907 🔗

Urgh, I used to feel so lucky that I was a Melburnian. Now my city is being used by sceptics as one of the worst places. It’s miserable here, the rest of the country also has treated us like pariahs and forcing us to go for this elimination nonsense.

107660 ▶▶▶ Lorenzo, replying to Caramel, 3, #71 of 907 🔗

at least you are not venezuelan like me 🙂

107706 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lorenzo, 3, #72 of 907 🔗

Tell us the worst, Lorenzo. We need to know.

107840 ▶▶▶ Arkleston, replying to Caramel, 2, #73 of 907 🔗

Hi Caramel, I am sorry and furious for what you are going through. I send you good wishes and positive thoughts. As long as resistance exists in the minds of the oppressed, there is always hope.

107914 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Caramel, 2, #74 of 907 🔗

I know! I always hoped to visit Melbourne because it was number 1 on some of those “quality of life” lists. What a shame—such a basically healthy city being reduced to a prison.

108184 ▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Caramel, #75 of 907 🔗

My friend is from Melbourne. I am from UK. I visited once about 30 years ago and it was a lovely place. Sadly he has bought right into the panic – the twat. He even said Alan Jones should be shot and pissed on. I had to unfollow him on FB due to the amount of CV drivel he was posting. I have no desire to go there ever again.

107327 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 20, #76 of 907 🔗

Points arising from Toby’s topics today

Hospital waiting lists.
There are no waiting lists locally for Orthopaedics or Ophthalmology, just lots of people waiting since both departments are still given over to the Covid in anticipation of the Second Wave. So nothing is happening there at all.

Dead Children
We have known that just 6 children died for months and thankfully no more have died since. They chose not to celebrate this at some earlier time because it would not have promoted Project Fear.
For people who think they are clever at manipulating the public’s opinion they left it a bit late to “Reveal” this now in an attempt to persuade the population, that thay have scared, that it is safe to send their children to school.

Quarantine Compliance is checked by an outfit called Isolation Ensure/ance (their word sp ?), an offshoot of Track’n’Trace.
They phone the recently returned to asses their Compliance and, so I am told, they can tell by the tone of your voice if you are fibbing and put that in their little report.

Ryanair man dragged of plane.
Yesterday (Friday 28/8 BBC R2) one of Jeremy Vines guests ( didn’t catch his name, presumably authoritative) surprised him by saying that self-isolation after being contacted by Track’n’Trace was advisory only and not law. The best that Jeremy could come back with was that “surely people have a moral duty to comply ?”
Dunno if the guest was going off script or if JV is sensing a change in attitudes.

Yesterday on the Today Programme Nick interviewed an American about Trump, the WHO came up with her saying
“the WHO has a great deal to answer for, it is responsible for the death of U.S. Citizens.”

Nick barked/spat back loudly
‘THE WHO, ? !’
in a tone of outraged anger that made me laugh out loud.

107337 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 9, #77 of 907 🔗

Dead children … I remember a report on one of the newborns in the Daily Fail, which stated categorically that there was nothing else wrong with it.

107400 ▶▶ kf99, replying to karenovirus, 1, #78 of 907 🔗

Did you hear another caller to JV yesterday get away with citing NZ as an example of what we should have done…we then had the usual complete change of subject that he does every 30 minutes so no further discussion of the subject.

107419 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kf99, 3, #79 of 907 🔗

No I missed that part but, to be fair, the show is designed to have three topics to discuss each day.

Early in lockdown there was a media furore about Londoners ‘invading’ Brockwell (?) Park, X,000s were described as lockdown louts.
JV crunched the numbers and came up with 1 visitor per acre per daylight hour. His finest hour having since got back in line.

108203 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to karenovirus, #80 of 907 🔗

Brockwell Park – home of the Krishnamurti School – J. Krishnamurti (now deceased) being a popular guru/spiritual teacher at one time. Can’t imagine his followers as ‘lockdown louts’! Ha ha.They tended to be very wealthy as a rule (1 visitor per acre sounds about right) .if anyone’s interested they have a very nice retreat centre not far from Southampton.

107330 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 51, #81 of 907 🔗

When is the Spectator going to campaign for an end to ALL Covid restrictions and the repeal of the monstrous Coronaviris Act 2020?
Fraser knows it should happen.

Toby knows it.
Ross Clarke
Dr John Lee

Macron not ruling out another full lockdown. Parisians interviewed in saying they agree with the new law saying masks must be worn outside.

This EVIL BRAINWASHING isn’t ending.

107331 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #82 of 907 🔗

Sure surprised by the enthusiasm shown by Parisians but then again I’m sure their MSM feed is just as lethal as in any other Western democracy (so-called)
I’m sure there must be some of our kind in that wonderful city.

107333 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Eddie, 11, #83 of 907 🔗

There will be. I lived there and know that they are seriously cynical about their politicians. They lived through far darker days than us in the war and whilst there are very few still alive from those days many children and grandchildren know the stories.

107422 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #84 of 907 🔗

My retired mum and dad went for a short city break to Paris, a ‘Youth’ pinched her handbag below the Eiffel Tower, part of the Paris Ecperience I told her upon their return.

107520 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, 3, #85 of 907 🔗

But was he masked and did he socially distance?. That is all that is important these days.

107647 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, #86 of 907 🔗

I expect he was masked and running away would count as social distancing

107453 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Chris Hume, 7, #87 of 907 🔗

I was in Marseille last weekend. Huge signs everywhere saying masks compulsory. Almost no one wearing them. No police control. Before that in Malaga. Same rules. Police cars roaming the streets. Everyone putting masks on when they see the police. Is it because France had a much shorter experience of fascism ?

107833 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 2, #88 of 907 🔗

One thing it does say is that everybody over there except the ultra-zombies knows that masks are useless except as an instrument of state ontrol.

107342 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Eddie, 6, #89 of 907 🔗

I watched on Italian TV News. Of course, they only showed pro mask people

107559 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #90 of 907 🔗

I think they would assume they were not allowed to show any opposing. Cox pop is always fake.

107560 ▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Yawnyaman, #91 of 907 🔗

Vox pop sorry, autocorrect

107568 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Yawnyaman, 13, #92 of 907 🔗

no i think cox pox sums it up nicely

107404 ▶▶▶ DJC, replying to Eddie, 8, #93 of 907 🔗

Anti-mask demonstration planned for Place de la Nation this afternoon

107332 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #94 of 907 🔗

I just filled in a survey about masks on Local Live online (mirror news group) giving suitable skeptic responses and a redundant email just to see the results.
They did not give the results and the ‘comment here’ button led to an error message. Perhaps we are giving them the wrong answers.

107391 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #95 of 907 🔗

It sounds as if all the governments are getting the same order: You haven’t trashed your countries enough yet so more full lockdowns required. The 2nd wave propaganda is relentless, as you say evil brainwashing – and it works! MW

107631 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #96 of 907 🔗

Yep I had to briefly endure my fellow golfers all talking about the impending 2nd wave while walking up the 18th fairway last weekend. Luckily my tee shot had gone right while the rest of them were well left of me. We had managed a Corona free round up until that point and unfortunately my strokes spiked upward on that final hole 🙂

107335 Mark, replying to Mark, 16, #97 of 907 🔗

NHS Hospitals Deserted ‘Like the Mary Celeste’”

Did we ever get good data and the full story on how vital the Great NHS Shutdown actually was back when it was introduced, back in the days of “flatten the curve”, at the peak of the epidemic in March and April? I recall seeing stories of barely used Nightingales, but what was the ICU usage at the peak and how close to capacity? I seem to recall reports that regional capacity was never exceeded, though presumably that was in part due to rapid expansion.

107350 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, 9, #98 of 907 🔗

They turned various departments over to ICU at my local hospital, at Easter they had 80 Covid patients, 14 on ventilation most survived. Never reached full capacity. Local Nightingale was never used for Covid but is repurposed for catching up on the backlog.

London Nightingale only use a small part of its capacity probably because despite being built commendably quickly, Covid in London was in decline when it was commissioned

107357 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 4, #99 of 907 🔗

The data is available – sort of – but it will take some time to work out the answer.

The NHS has published daily data on admissions, beds occupied and mechanical ventilator beds occupied. I haven’t found it yet, but am fairly sure that data is also available on capacity per hospital/trust. The fact that I haven’t found it may mean either that it isn’t there, or that I just haven’t found it.

What this won’t take into account is capacity before the significant amount of resorganisation that went on in the first part of March, that dramatically increased ICU capacity (not including the Nightingales).

As I recall, there was one London hospital reporting that it was in danger of being “overtopped” and I don’t think I saw a single other report of anything similar (and I’m quite sure the BBC would have been all over the story if there had been more). The London Nightingale had 19 people in it at peak (again – from recollection).

However, I’m not sure if it’s possible to answer the question of whether ‘standard’ ICU capacity would have been exceeded if it hadn’t been significantly increased. Or at least, there probably is a way to do it, but I am not an investigative journalist and don’t want to spend the next week working it out.

Standard national ICU capacity is around 4,000 beds and standard utilisation is around 80%. This means that my semi-informed guess would be that a number of hospitals and trusts probably would have been “overwhelmed” for the course of a few weeks at the peak and that total national capacity would have been exceeded for a couple of weeks if the reorganisation hadn’t happened.

107368 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 4, #100 of 907 🔗

As I recall, there was one London hospital reporting that it was in danger of being “overtopped”

I recall the anecdotal mention of a London hospital being “overwhelmed”, that David Starkey suggested played a part in panicking the government at the crucial moment.

107377 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #101 of 907 🔗

Well, memory may play tricks, but I had thought that was after 23rd March. Might very well be wrong though.

107387 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mark, 6, #102 of 907 🔗

That was Northwick Park. It has been overwhelmed before. It has a catchment area of Harrow and Wembley and beyond.

107449 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, #103 of 907 🔗


107540 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 2, #104 of 907 🔗

Northwick Park hospital,but it played no part in the decision to lockdown,that had already been made

107786 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #105 of 907 🔗

It was reported on March 20th. Three weeks lockdown to “flatten the curve” while the NHS caught up might have been justifiable.

However, this prolonged foot-dragging and cruel cat-and mouse games are clearly about something else entirely and it doesn’t smell good.

107336 annie, 43, #106 of 907 🔗

Thank you, thank you, NHS
For all this mess.
You don’t impress
Me one bit.

Killer, killer NHS
Now confess
You are a cess
Of s..t.

clap, clap, clap.

107339 helen, replying to helen, 13, #107 of 907 🔗

Robert F Kennedy Jr. in Berlin with Ärtze Für Aufklärung

107355 ▶▶ Rosser, replying to helen, 1, #108 of 907 🔗

That was an excellent watch.

107361 ▶▶ watashi, replying to helen, #109 of 907 🔗

thank you.

107363 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to helen, 1, #110 of 907 🔗


When I first watched, it continued to an address by RFK spelling out what is happening. Tried again, but it was missing. Very annoyed I didn’t grab the link. Does anyone have it?

107435 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to helen, 2, #111 of 907 🔗

Robert F Kennedy Jr sums up this moment so powerfully and succinctly – a great watch. Thanks for the link.

107500 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to helen, 2, #112 of 907 🔗

Robert F Kennedy Jr is a hero

107959 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #113 of 907 🔗

I’m rapidly becoming a convert. Must admit was initially sceptical (‘oh jeez not another Kennedy…’) but he is very articulate and makes some very good arguments. Also, he was talking not long ago about his father’s assassination, he has been campaigning for a new trial for Sirhan & pointed out the massive flaws in the physical & ballistics evidence, inc. the fact that the gun introduced at trial, well it probably wasn’t even Sirhan’s gun! Kamala Harris at the time (California) was the one who took the decision to refuse to reopen the case.

107586 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to helen, 2, #114 of 907 🔗

He’s got the leadership qualities that are void in our leadership

107340 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #115 of 907 🔗

Having read the headline and following the wonderful Karol Sikora on Twitter who has banging on the drum of missed and delayed treatments for the likes of cancer, I was thinking that we should change the name of the NHS (National Health Service) to either the:

No Health Service

or the

No Hope Service

Which do you prefer?

107341 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #116 of 907 🔗

National Hancock Slavery

107455 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #117 of 907 🔗

National Handcock no-Service

107345 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #118 of 907 🔗

Notional Health Service


National Hysteria System

107347 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #119 of 907 🔗

National Hysteria System – great!!! 👍

107432 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #120 of 907 🔗

In Ireland, the equivalent is the Health Service Executive (HSE) so I propose Hysteria Seeding Executive.

108108 ▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to Barney McGrew, #121 of 907 🔗

Notional Health Service gets my vote – genius!

107795 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #122 of 907 🔗

National Covid Service.

107802 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #123 of 907 🔗

National Hysteria Service.

107343 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 17, #124 of 907 🔗

Typical Coronavirus science report from the BBC.

Coronavirus: Children’s role in spread puzzles scientists https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53946420

For a start, it’s a report on a ‘study’, but it doesn’t include a link to the study. Why not? One might almost conclude that the BBC reserves the right to spin a narrative from a scientific report but be reluctant to be challenged on it.

Second it’s written in that patronising style where it answers its own ‘questions’. Goodness knows where this idea has come from, but it’s likely to be from the same place that suggests that full stops are too confrontational for today’s sensitive young people. Simple statements would be bruising to the ego of the reader so have to be softened by being the answer to an imaginary question, instead.

And finally, it’s an example of where Covid ‘science’ boils down to little more than opinion and narrative. For all the ‘research’ and the admonishment of ‘deniers’ and ‘sceptics’ that the ‘educated’ classes might indulge in, the final statement boils down to nothing more than what a man down the pub might tell you:

Dr DeBiasi believes that while the “vast majority of infected children have mild or unrecognised disease,” they may play an “important” role in enabling the spread of infection through communities.

This is what infuriates me. People pay lip service to science and its ‘objectivity’ when it suits them. (‘Professor’ Trish Greenhalgh no doubt thinks of herself as a scientist doing pure, objective research on the efficacy of face masks – while mooning out at us from her twitter page… in a mask).

The “South Korean study” in the BBC article (no other clues) seemingly fails to show that children spread Covid. But never mind. Another ‘scientist’ “believes” they “may” have an “important role” in doing it anyway.

107353 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #125 of 907 🔗

Phrases like “logic dictates” always ring an alarm bell when they’re surrounded by such vague claims. They’re essentially saying “we have no evidence and have done no studies, but in the absence of anything useful – here are my preconceptions”.

107358 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Tee Ell, 7, #126 of 907 🔗

Very true. I am going to save that comment and use it wherever I can. “Your preconceptions are not evidence”

107374 ▶▶ hat man, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #127 of 907 🔗

We all get infuriated by media bias, but we should never be puzzled by it. The media are just supplying the goods they’ve been paid to supply:
See para 6 especially.

107426 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #128 of 907 🔗

By mistake posted in yesterdays edition.This is serious misinformation.Fake news

Warning.Fake news BBC this morning
Coronavirus: Children’s role in spread puzzles scientistsBBC says RNA fragments in high in PCR tests is the same as live transmissible virus.Dangerous misinformation.See the article quoted


“Thus, we could not answer the question about infectivity and the infectious period in this cohort study”
“The detection of virus RNA in respiratory specimens in this study does not necessarily imply that viable virus is present. However, if proven infectious (because most of the children were asymptomatic, were presymptomatic, or had unrecognizable symptoms in this study), the transmission potential of SARS-CoV-2 in children and its effect on the community might be greater than expected.”


“No live virus was isolated from any respiratory samples taken after day 8 of symptoms in three studies, or beyond day 9 despite persistently high viral RNA loads.”

107441 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #129 of 907 🔗

Please defund the BBC

107529 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #130 of 907 🔗

standard BBC approach.. For example on climate change the BBC report the findings, do not link to the study, and always mention that “scientists say…..” to give it authority , When the study is looked at, it doesnt say what the BBC says, or it is based on dodgy data and of course they never mention if the study is funded by the pro climate change lobby.

107344 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 28, #131 of 907 🔗

Total Covid 19:84 related deaths reported in all Europe yesterday: 339 out of 741,400,000 people. (worldometers website)

That’s down from a couple of days ago.

The second ripple is clearly over.

107346 annie, replying to annie, 11, #132 of 907 🔗

Hancock is a happy man as he scatters zombie fodder far and wide, aided and abetted by the faithful Beeb. Oh, and he’s going to cancel Christmas, of course.

Meanwhile, BBC2’s Newsnight reported that a “reasonable worse case planning assumption” presented to the Government said there could be up to 81,000 excess deaths directly attributed to Covid-19 between July and next March.
The broadcaster said the figures were in a document signed off by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) for the Cabinet Office at the end of July.
The document stressed that the figures represent a scenario, not a prediction, Newsnight said.

107349 ▶▶ annie, replying to annie, #133 of 907 🔗

Sorry, lost the link, but it was in the DT.

107373 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 5, #134 of 907 🔗

I’ve got a scenario for them. Covid might have mutated into something more benign, it is not expected that many future cases will actually become ill. The government will probably include winter flu sufferers in public information which the public might choose not to believe. Realising they have been taken for fools this might well result in a tsunami of mask burning, maybe.

107367 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 6, #135 of 907 🔗

Christmas is already cancelled by my NHS Trust, staff have been told they must not organise or attend any of the usual departmental Xmas do’s.
This from a nurse who was looking forward to an informal late summer gathering at a tiny old fashioned riverside pub set in acres of grounds, use of gazebos booked in case of inclement weather which they were ordered to cancel because the Covid.

107396 ▶▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to karenovirus, 4, #136 of 907 🔗

Love it how they can see three months ahead. Bit like when government cancelled exams, which in the end they easily could’ve held.

107399 ▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to karenovirus, 11, #137 of 907 🔗

Christmas should be cancelled for the NHS so that they can catch up on the healthcare for the serious illnesses they have criminally neglected these past months and not for this scam.

107460 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Suzyv, 3, #138 of 907 🔗

Not the nurses fault Suzyv, they worked through the start of Covid despite being told by the press that it was like a return of the bubonic plague while management went home and left them to it.

107456 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #139 of 907 🔗

It’s bedwetting knobhead managers ‘working from home’ pretending to do something in the Fight Against Covid.

107401 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 14, #140 of 907 🔗

We made our curry house manager laugh last night by telling him we were really sorry that Eid got screwed up but, if it was any comfort, they were going to cancel Christmas as well. Grim humour but we will not be cowed! MW

107489 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 10, #141 of 907 🔗

I self-cancelled last Christmas and New Year. Everything was just so incredibly shit back then I decided to totally flip the whole thing off. I didn’t engage with it at all. Back then, with the bastard Tories and the MSM trashing Corbyn, the May Bot, the mendacious suspension of parliment, the mendacious fake ellection, the Australian fires, the brainwashed public, climate change bullshit reaching a fever pitch…all of that made me feel very UN-“Christmasey”.

I just felt alienated and miserable, with no hope for a better year ahead. I could see the clouds of totalitarian fascism gathering.

107494 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to annie, 7, #142 of 907 🔗

This is from the ‘leaked Sage report’ and was on BBC website today (sorry, but ‘know thine enemy’ is the watchword so I do visit that site).

The variables are comical:
The figures, which the scientists say have a wide range of uncertainty, suggest around 2.4% of infected people could be hospitalised (range: 0.0%-8.9% ) with 20.5% of hospitalised patients going into ICU (range: 1.5% – 35.25 ) and 23.3% (range: 1 .2% – 43.3% ) of all hospitalised patients dying.
The model also predicts an overall infection fatality ratio of 0.7% ( 0.0% – 9.7% ).

At least Carl Heneghan gets quoted:
Prof Carl Heneghan, from Oxford University, said some of the assumptions made in the model were “implausible” and that the report assumes that “we’ve learnt nothing from the first wave of this disease”.

107348 annie, replying to annie, 5, #143 of 907 🔗

A luvverly bit of logic here, re care home deaths:

Responding to Freedom of Information requests, the regulators said they were concerned standards of care would fall, and the number of available beds would drop, if customers abandoned operators with high mortality rates, The Guardian reported .


107389 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 1, #144 of 907 🔗

Good luck with keeping that quiet. About 3 months ago an interactive map was made available showing England & Wales Covid deaths broken down by wards.
Most wards in my city had none, 4 showed ‘spikes’ of up to 6 deaths and everyone in the community knows which 3 nursing homes these were.
The fourth was in a sheltered housing complex for the genteel elderly, probably caused by by the NHS sending Covid infected victims back home.

107818 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #145 of 907 🔗

Or care workers going in and out.

107354 Mark B, replying to Mark B, 11, #146 of 907 🔗

These 20 second tests being trialled at Heathrow are just more normalising of this madness.

107356 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mark B, 19, #147 of 907 🔗

Fully agree. If you do another test for sars-cov-1, another for an adenovirus, another few for some rhinoviruses, another for flu… That’s more than 20 seconds. Then you have to do them all twice to make up for mediocre sensitivity of the test. Then you have to account for the fact that the test might be detecting “dead” RNA rather than acive infection.

Then you need to question why you are jeopardising someone’s holiday in order to allow “safe travel” between a country that has a certain level of exposure, to another country that has… about the same level of exposure.

Doing the same for journeys from Euston into Camden would make just as much sense.

107439 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark B, 8, #148 of 907 🔗

Agree. Lets stop the madness. It is the same as having a cold or the flu, in fact more people die from flu than Covid-19. Our immune systems can manage it —- We DO NOT test the population for colds/flu

108163 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Victoria, #149 of 907 🔗

They might in the future if we continue to allow Public Health to run the country.

107360 Country Mumkin, 3, #150 of 907 🔗

Thanks for the piece and BMJ link re kids with Covid. All saved and bookmarked ready for discussion with others….

107366 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #151 of 907 🔗

Laurence Fox has added his voice to no antisocial distancing and mandatory muzzling in schools:


107438 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #152 of 907 🔗

Well done Lauren Fox

107369 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #153 of 907 🔗

The Global Elite & The Coronavirus Coup D’état With Patrick Wood

About 30 min they start addressing what we should do to put a stop to the coup.

107370 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 63, #155 of 907 🔗

The NHS is not a source of national pride, it’s a national embarrassment, and Toby’s damning update today just proves the point. My 87-year-old granddad was due to have a cataracts operation earlier this August. He was told to isolate for 14 days both before and after the operation – so effectively a whole month in isolation. Still, he dutifully isolated for the two weeks before the operation. Then just a couple of days before the procedure, he got a call from the hospital saying the operation had been cancelled. The reason? ‘Surgeon on holiday’. I also have a friend who even before the ‘pandemic’ (read: seasonal disease event) really got taken for a ride by the NHS surgeons for a back operation that was causing her so much pain that she could barely move or sit down for long periods. Her operation got pushed back three times to my knowledge and each time they struggled to get hold of the surgeon who was also ‘on holiday’.

This is why the fetishisation of the NHS sickens me so deeply. It is not ‘the envy of the world’ in any way – it is average at best and totally unfit for purpose at worst. Yeah, the world envies us so much that no other country has copied our health service model! Johnson has taken the British obsession with exceptionalism to its extreme, describing every ill-fated and useless government project as ‘world-beating’. Why do we have to be ‘world-beating’? What’s wrong with just ‘very good’? We’re not even the best in the world anyway so it’s an outright lie but this from a man who lies about his own first name.

Perhaps that’s part of the reason the UK has handled this so poorly. Why we are some of the most reluctant people to go back to the office while everyone on the continent just gets on with it. Why our furlough is some of the most generous in the world. It’s this obsession with the NHS, a national religion celebrating a sclerotic parasite which must be protected at all costs, no matter how many it kills. Religion has been responsible for many wars and deaths during history, after all. This slavish devotion to what is basically a hospital makes me utterly embarrassed to be British. The national obsession with the NHS would be understandable if it were so excellent, but it just isn’t. It is used time and again as a political football by parties of all colours, and it is a misplaced source of national pride that can surely only be explained as an overhang of Britain’s Imperial glory days, the need to be truly ‘exceptional’ at something, anything.

Now they have refused to treat an 87-year-old (and my granddad will be one of millions, I’m sure) I will never, ever give this lumbering institution the respect that our populist shills demand. I would happily never pay tax again towards the NHS and not be able to use it myself if this is the quality of health service we are getting in a first-world country.

107378 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Poppy, #156 of 907 🔗

It wouldn’t be any better with any other system as the data shows https://www.bmj.com/content/367/bmj.l6326

The NHS does work, but could be better. Just like the private train companies.

The problem is that the area doesn’t respond well to competitive structures. You don’t really want your hospital going bust in the middle of your open heart surgery. And if they can’t go bust, or degrade as they are failing, then competition won’t improve anything.

If we want a better health service, we have to decide as a nation to put more people into it. And as we have seen due to Covid we don’t really need all those people stuffed into trains and producing yet more advertising, PR and marketing. What we need is more nurses and more care assistants.

107380 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lucan Grey, 8, #157 of 907 🔗

So we should just take everyone out of the productive economy and make them all work at caring for the sick?

107385 ▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to matt, 1, #158 of 907 🔗

Who says they are productive? Demonstrably over the last six months they are not, or the country would have starved.

All we have is the people in the nation. We need to look at what they are doing and ask if that is actually more important than social care or nursing.

107393 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #159 of 907 🔗

So you’re envisioning a society where the shelves are stocked (presumably with uniform grey labelling on all foodstuffs, since advertising and graphic design is not productive and so should be binned) and logistics happen and anyone not directly involved in making sure the nation is fed is designated a role as either clinician or patient?

107484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 6, #160 of 907 🔗

Indeed. People say they want the NHS to be even better, but don’t want to pay extra taxes. People want better schools, better roads, etc, but don’t want to pay more taxes. They are happy to pay the tax they pay, but want money to spend on “non-essential” stuff, entertainment etc. They vote with their feet and their wallets. Anyone who says they are not making tradeoffs of this kind is just deluded, and people who want the moon on a stick without having to pay for it just need to grow up a bit and get real. If people actually wanted stripped down, simple lives, they would already be living them. Some are, most are not.

107564 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, 1, #161 of 907 🔗

I was in rural Ukraine a few years before the USSR collapsed and that is precisely what the shops were like.
Incidentally, one of our party required hospitalisation on the return journey and had nothing but praise for her three days stay.
That was in Lvov/Lviv/Lemburg, being on the western extremity might have been a bonus.

107831 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #162 of 907 🔗

Productive economy?

107609 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Lucan Grey, 7, #163 of 907 🔗

German/Swiss/Austrian/ Dutch hospital systems all have competition built in to the system and respond well to competitive structures.
The main difference is the lack of a Stalinist management structure and people can choose to spend more of their own money on health care, personal choices and all that.
Improvements inthe rest of society since industrial revolutuon have come from improvements in efficiency not from “putting more people on it”

108202 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lucan Grey, #164 of 907 🔗

There is a well staffed NHS at this very moment, but the government and its overpaid NHS senior managers have colluded, under the guise of Covid-19, to turn it into a third world entity.

Why isn’t the NHS now working normally? Just what is stopping it doing what it is supposed to do? It’s not because of Covid-19, whatever that was. Covid-19 was clearly on its last legs by early April and it has long left and is totally gone. Strangely though, the government seems to know where it is hiding and when it will be back. How cosy that relationship is, perhaps there is a hot line.

Government ministers, many paid officials and scientists should end up going to jail over this corrupt mega-fiasco. And then there is the eugenicist Bill Gates, our governments best friend and a supplier of big wads of cash, but more about the crazed vaccine tsar, another time.

107382 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 19, #165 of 907 🔗

Well said Poppy. And every debate about the NHS is always met with cries “oh you want it like America then” as if that’s the only option. They never stop to think that if the NHS is indeed “the envy of the world” then why is it that no Commonwealth country has copied it at the bare minimum? Why is it that the likes of France, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland have better health services than the UK?

I wasn’t born and raised in this country so the worship and adulation of what I have started calling the No Hope Service is baffling to me to say the least. I’ve not had much to do with the NHS save for women’s health services and they have been decent but its a pain to get an appointment. What has frustrated me is the inability to sign up for GP services and as a result I have boycotted it by refusing to register for a GP – the charade puts me off and is a damning indictment of a system that has been flawed from the start and is incapable of reform. Like you I would happily not pay tax towards the NHS as I would rather keep the money and arrange my own health provision.

107388 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Bart Simpson, #166 of 907 🔗

“then why is it that no Commonwealth country has copied it at the bare minimum? ”

They have. The Australian system is very similar to ours. Every GP surgery in the UK is a private business. Every hospital is part of a private trust. All of them offer both private and public services.

Where do you see the difference?

And it is a myth that other EU countries have better health than the UK. They deploy more of their internal resources on healthcare than we do. https://www.bmj.com/content/367/bmj.l6326

107408 ▶▶▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to Lucan Grey, 12, #167 of 907 🔗

I lived in Australia (Brisbane) for a few years and their system seems to work much more smoothly.

The majority, I believe, have some form of private health insurance as well as the state Medicare system which to me seems equitable – if you can afford it then why shouldn’t you pay for the service?

The upshot being, yes you pay maybe $30 dollars a pop to see the GP and if entitled can claim X amount back via Medicare. The point being, you can actually see a GP when you need one. Same with consultants, etc.

107415 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JimByJovi, 4, #168 of 907 🔗

A not insignificant proportion of people in this country also have private health insurance, including through their employer – but virtually never use it unless they have something seriously wrong with them that requires specialist treatment. Anecdotal, but I and a friend of mine at various points have both actively tried to give insurance details to pay for various minor treatments for family members (A&E) and have been turned down because the hospital couldn’t be bothered with the paperwork.

I would think that a reasonably sized impact could be made on NHS funding if we just changed the expectation so that treatment and care was paid for first through insurance, if available and then out of the general funding pot if not. At the very least, I would be very surprised if that didn’t more than cover any additional admin costs.

107434 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to matt, 2, #169 of 907 🔗

Totally agree. It would probably encourage people to go to see the doc when they needed to, rather than feeling guilty – “Oh I don’t want to bother them”.

107499 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to JimByJovi, 4, #170 of 907 🔗

The point being you can actually see a GP! YES, precisely.

107816 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Alison9, 4, #171 of 907 🔗

and is treated with respect – NHS GPs think they do you a favour

107619 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Lucan Grey, 6, #172 of 907 🔗

Australia actually has what is known as a co-pay system ( see linked explanation by a Dr here: https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/an-australian-style-co-payments-system-for-healthcare )
Another difference between Oz & UK health systems is you can choose to see a different GP at the drop of a hat if you choose. GPs cannot act a blocking gatekeepers like they do here.

107395 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Poppy, 1, #173 of 907 🔗

Totally agree.

107436 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Poppy, 8, #174 of 907 🔗

Get rid of the `NHS and replace it with a system similar to that in Switzerland – everybody has access to affordable world class care, the Government subsidises the people with low or no incomes.

107474 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, #175 of 907 🔗

Swiss healthcare costs of 12.2% of GDP are the world’s second highest after the United States where healthcare consumes 17.1% of GDP.

107477 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, -4, #176 of 907 🔗

Switzerland has a population of some 8.5M, including some of the world’s wealthiest people who maintain one of their many homes there. Not comparable to UK.

107448 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 11, #177 of 907 🔗

Tbe NHS idea is awesome. Free care at the point of need. It has had 75 years of political storm ravage through its major organs. Now it is a weak and frail shadow of it’s former self. Put good people back in. Rip out the installed change agents (their word not mine) and pulp anyone belonging to a public health directorate would be my first morning in power.

108021 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Basics, 1, #178 of 907 🔗

It may be free at the point of need, but it isn’t ‘free’, and taxpayers might wonder what they are getting for their money at the moment.

I’m not sure if these figures are accurate, but I suspect that most people would be surprised at how much they pay for their ‘free’ service:


107483 ▶▶ PaulC, replying to Poppy, 6, #179 of 907 🔗

I also have a friend whose operation for his cataract was cancelled in April – no future date given – and now can’t see out of his left eye.

107511 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Poppy, 11, #180 of 907 🔗

The NHS has been mendatiously elevated to the level of a deity. Think back, this band of evil idiots in the cabinet have been wearing their stupid little NHS badges for years while hacking it to bits.

The Olympic opening ceremony made the NHS THE CENTRAL FEATURE of their enormous death-cult ritual performance. The almost total obsession with the management of the NHS and “SAVING” it from imaginary COVIDS to the exclusion of EVERYTHING else is just pure gas-lighting, smoke and mirrors to obscure the transformation of society and the UK’s medical system into a new global health system.

The NHS has been carefully positioned in the minds of the public to be the pivot or perhaps the lever for this societal transformation.

As Annie said:
“clap clap clap clap”

107543 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, 2, #181 of 907 🔗

I always thought that the whole NHS deification being based around the rainbow logo was odd as this is also the logo of the LGBT movement .
Feel free to make your own punchline. I am too woke to add one .

107835 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 3, #182 of 907 🔗

Or, more realistically, clap trap clap trap

107526 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Poppy, 10, #183 of 907 🔗

Great post. The NHS is an outlier in the world of health systems. As you say, if it was so great then why has no other country copied it? The book below has a chapter with a very good comparison of a number of health systems across the world. No system is perfect, but in terms of outcomes (which is what should matter), I would much rather live in Switzerland, South Korea, Germany, Iceland, Japan, France, The Netherlands, The US or many other countries. My wife has lived in Belgium and I’ve lived in France so we’ve both experienced what a good universal health system is. The NHS is a joke. I come across so many people in my line of work who have experienced the most appalling experiences with the great NHS. One example. I know someone, who happens to be a very experienced nurse, who was prescribed a near lethal dose of a normally benign drug by her GP and ended up in hospital.

If two good things can come out of this CoronaCrap (as my better half calls it) then it’ll be a proper debate on how we deliver healthcare in the UK plus realisation that the Chinese Communist Party are a very serious predator and must be defeated.

Book link https://www.amazon.co.uk/Welfare-Nations-James-Bartholomew/dp/1849548307

107542 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Poppy, 4, #184 of 907 🔗

everyone knows that the NHS is a good idea, but that it is fundamentally flawed in the way that it has been set up and run. For years governments have known that. And so every few years it gets reorganised in an attempt to make it better but all that tends to do is put another layer of management in and make the whole thing more sclerotic.
What no government has done is have the will to investigate a full root and branch change. For many years Anne Widdecombe was trying to get a cross party investigation started to look at how to do this. But it never happens. All the governments (of all colours) will do is argue about how much money, and how much extra money, to throw at the problem in the hope that that will fix it. Which it wont. The NHS is a bottomless pit that will absorb all the money thrown at it and still ask for more.
Even some simple changes are ignored….. reduce the admin and management. remove the targets.

107561 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to mjr, 8, #185 of 907 🔗

The problem with the NHS is that it is a utopian idea run on Stalinist lines.Rather than a golden age it was in crisis from the start.It has been downhill ever since and anyone who has used it recently will have experienced a lack of care.
Free at the point of use creates a unlimited demand which can never be satisfied.
The telling point is that our envy of the world has never been copied by any major nation; also it is a political football with endless reorganisations and disasters like PFI.
I think Covid will be the death knell because it just withdrew services for anything else,what use of it being free if it won’t treat you.
The problem is you wouldn’t trust this government to come up with anything better.

107604 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #186 of 907 🔗

It is of course entirely coincidental that one system has nanagedmto come up with:
1) Liverpool Care Pathway.
2) Staffordshire feeding plan
3) Covid patients in care homes plan.

Once is happenstance etc, but when are we going to take seriously complete reform of a system that is so morally bankrupt as to even conceive of these methods of treating the elderly.

108173 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nessimmersion, #187 of 907 🔗

They put my dying father in the Liverpool path.
I will never forgive them for that, never, never, never.

107837 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #188 of 907 🔗

The NHS wasn’t allowed to be set up as per the original vision. The doctors were staunchly against it, so even back in its beginning, the result was a compromise. It hasn’t improved since.

107375 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 10, #189 of 907 🔗

France sees biggest rise in CV cases since March. “Exponential rise”. BBC website report.

All that pain suffering for nothing!

Lockdowns don’t work.

107407 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to OKUK, 4, #190 of 907 🔗

Except ‘cases’ = ‘positive’ tests. (Someone might break this news to Toby Young!) MW

107409 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #191 of 907 🔗

Judging by their own lights, by their own hysteria, so that a case in March = a
case in August. I’m also judging this by the Swedish standard which made clear this would happen.

107411 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #192 of 907 🔗

Apologies, that should read:

Lockdowns don’t work to sort out a virus but they are just the job for wrecking whole countries’ ways-of-life, breaking down people’s will and destroying everything we hold dear and they are the gift that keeps on giving.

And, of course, ‘cases’ = ‘positive’ tests i.e. pure propaganda and a tool of control. Someone might break this news to Toby Young!) MW

107531 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #193 of 907 🔗

and Will Jones! 🙂 MW

107546 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #194 of 907 🔗

Miriam.. i agree ,, i have pointed this out here on numerous occasions. A “case” implies that someone actually has the disease and is ill. Whereas as you say, we are referring to “positive tests” which may be false positives, duplicate tests, asymptomatic hosts etc.
Makes a big difference if the public perceive 20 cases as 20 people being ill (and possibly going to die) rather than 20 people being tested positive and one of them having a runny nose !

107585 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to mjr, 3, #195 of 907 🔗

I think I must point this stuff out to at least one person on a daily basis and it always comes as news to them. Anything we LSs can do to debunk this crap has to be useful. MW

107429 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to OKUK, 6, #196 of 907 🔗

And had it not been for face nappies masks the rise would surely have been super exponential

107552 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 4, #197 of 907 🔗

Irony whoever thumbs downed it

107557 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to arfurmo, 3, #198 of 907 🔗

I thumbs-upped it and then someone else cancelled it out! It’s Irony Deficency Syndrome. MW

107376 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 16, #199 of 907 🔗

WTAF! Prof Neil Ferguson being interviewed just now (8.15) on R4’s Today about Hancock’s announcement re ‘reasonable worst case’ local lockdowns. Why would any serious journalist ask that man anything? Surely his credibility is shot?!

107412 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Telpin, 9, #200 of 907 🔗

They are not journalists and he is not a scientist. Business as usual in fear and propaganda-land. MW

107458 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #201 of 907 🔗

It is a stage play with a script, a set and characters played by actors. No different to a soap. Indeed soap operas are frequently used to programme government agendas.

107420 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Telpin, 3, #202 of 907 🔗

For the BBC destroying Trimp and the Tories is all that matters.

107431 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Telpin, 2, #203 of 907 🔗

The BBC must be stripped of Licence money

107446 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Victoria, 3, #204 of 907 🔗

Sure, if they can be, but Gates will make up the shortfall.

107810 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to bluemoon, 1, #205 of 907 🔗

Thats fine, they can then do and say what they want. No licence fee to pay.

Gates is already paying them, so they are definitely not objective

107550 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Telpin, #206 of 907 🔗

Somebody should shut him up

107381 2 pence, 1, #207 of 907 🔗

Warm Up DEMO Berlin Querdenken 28.8


107468 ▶▶ Basics, replying to 2 pence, 3, #209 of 907 🔗

Ruptly is up on youtube too now live. Big crowds. Police in riot gear already. Crowds gathering and peaceful in the real nonBBC meaning of the word.

107471 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #210 of 907 🔗


Ruptly live Berlin protests.

107478 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 9, #211 of 907 🔗

This is how they’ve reported in Ireland. Expectations of a whopping 20,000 people


The are also saying its a ragbag of conspiracy nuts.

Ireland were threatened with a second lockdown by the Health Minister this week.

Education Minister said anyone not wearing a mask on secondary schools will be removed indefinitely from their education

It’s war, Ivor Cummings has said.

107490 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #212 of 907 🔗

Robert Kennedy Jr is due to be there in Berlin. Looking like it is going to be a large turnout.

107516 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 2, #213 of 907 🔗

Yeah, I have seen it said it’ll be massive. I hope so. Needs to send a message.

107761 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #214 of 907 🔗

I’ve just heard on the radio that the police broke it up due to a lack of social distancing. 🙄

107971 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #215 of 907 🔗

Reminds me of the stories about New York – police grabbing citizens off the street for the crime of not social distancing…they literally throw them all in one jail cell that’s already got 10 people in it, thereby causing them to immediately not social distance…

108198 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #216 of 907 🔗

Health & Education ministers rule. You must obey.

107843 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #217 of 907 🔗

I hope the police aren’t anticipating a staged fracas. Surely, the demonstrators would have more sense than to start one themselves.

107394 Lord Rickmansworth, 6, #218 of 907 🔗

Morning all! EPISODE 4 of Bedwetters is here!

Today we talk about the University Health NKVD!

The awakening of politicians and the media in Europe (But Bozza is still dosing)

Plus the usual round up the latest stats from the ONS.


👉 https://bedwetters.buzzsprout.com/ 👈

107397 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #219 of 907 🔗

Childcare Services Team you say ?
Covid Response Team you say ?
Looks like the Government are planning ahead

107406 ▶▶ Julian, replying to tonyspurs, 13, #220 of 907 🔗

Absolutely nothing that is being done by our government and local authorities suggests to me they want to get out of this. Quite the opposite. One of my favourite lines of argument with people who oppose going back to normal is “how long should we go on like this?”. They never have an answer – I just get mumbling. They know there isn’t an answer they will like, so they avoid.

107418 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Julian, 5, #221 of 907 🔗

Anyone I ask always say “until there’s a vaccine”

107430 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to tonyspurs, 10, #222 of 907 🔗

Exactly. The missing message from the Government/NHS is for us mere mortals to improve our immune systems.

107481 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Victoria, 4, #223 of 907 🔗

And continue to challenge them in order to prime them to react properly, by NOT sanitising our environment with fogging anti bacterial and viral chemicals – coming to many West End theatres before they reopen in spring, folks.

108200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bruno, #224 of 907 🔗

That reminds me of a garbage strike that happened in London around 40 years ago. Garbage everywhere. Hygiene, sanitation-wise much worse than Covid. Took days to clean it all up.

107533 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Victoria, #225 of 907 🔗

Since January.

107493 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #226 of 907 🔗

And the next step is to point out that it could be years, or never, and is unlikely to be anything like 100% effective.

108199 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to tonyspurs, #227 of 907 🔗

They’ve already been lobotomized. Subliminally, most likely.

107450 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Julian, 4, #228 of 907 🔗

Just like the Remainers in the Brexit argument. Ask them why we should remain part of the EU. No answer.

108174 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to petgor, #229 of 907 🔗

Actually Gina Miller answered that in an interview – because the EU were responsible for giving us women’s rights…not sure if the interviewer had the heart to tell her she had just totally erased the suffragettes out of history….

107428 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #230 of 907 🔗

Huhh? Shocking waste of taxpayers money

107402 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 26, #231 of 907 🔗

Hoping to see all you Lockdown Sceptics today at the London Demo – 12.30pm Trafalgar Square. Lots of eminent speakers doctors, virologists freedom lovers….

A great opportunity to get out there and express how you feel at this ongoing shitshow.

107425 ▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 3, #232 of 907 🔗

That’s two of us then!

107486 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Badgerman, #233 of 907 🔗

Hmmm here’s hoping for a few more…

107447 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 5, #234 of 907 🔗

Bound to be reported front page by every media outlet. Not!

108178 ▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to petgor, #235 of 907 🔗

Well the MSM always put the real stories first..
I recall CNN had I think 3 reporters over a period of about 2 days, discussing a claim that President Trump got 2 scoops of ice cream on a piece of pie at a State dinner, and Ambassador only got 1 (though it may have been 1 1/2). With dogged determination they cracked the case – the White House catering staff ‘established the preferences’ of principals at the dinner before serving. Who knew! So yeah, no doubt the press will be right on those protests… 🙂

107470 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 6, #236 of 907 🔗

Sadly I cannot make it. Hope they stay just on Covid and Lockdown etc and do not bring in 5g etc.

107522 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 2, #237 of 907 🔗

Yes, I really hope they don’t talk about 5G. This will be the only message that gets out through the MSM filters.

107532 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Two-Six, 4, #238 of 907 🔗

5G is important only because it facilitates surveillance.

108181 ▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to PastImperfect, #239 of 907 🔗

Didn’t France say this? before the rollout of their track & trace system (which, like most others, did neither track nor trace) I’m sure they said it would integrate seamlessly with their inbuilt systems, to facilitate surveillance of everybody at all times…for people’s safety. obviously.

107524 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 3, #240 of 907 🔗

I just dropped my son off at the station. He had left his mask – with a great big NO across it – at home. Luckily he has his ‘get out of jail’ card if challenged.

107403 petgor, 28, #241 of 907 🔗

I am convinced now more than ever, that when history comes to be written by our grandchildrens generation, it will be about the virus that never was. I am not arguing that Covid-19 didn’t exist, but that its vehemence was entirely overstated.

107405 guy153, replying to guy153, 12, #242 of 907 🔗

Had a look at twitter and it spammed me with this interesting thread “For the education of the general public, this is how a scientist reads a news story.” This is also how I read news stories.


The news story links to a preprint, containing in the abstract the dramatic claim stated as if it were a fact: “ COVID-19 causes cardiac dysfunction in up to 50% of patients “.

Then a little further down this is clarified:

“Notably, multiple independent reports have found that COVID-19 patients frequently present with significant myocardial damage 6–8 , even without prior cardiovascular disease 9 (CVD)”

If you check 6-8 (having found the correct references section– there are two) they are saying that people with CVD suffer worse C19. Only 9 is meant to support the claim that C19 causes CVD.

What does 9 actually say? My bolding:

SARS-CoV-2 may invade cells by binding to ACE2, causing direct damage to cardiomyocytes. However, the autopsy results of COVID-19 cases failed to detect SARS CoV-2 virus components in myocardial tissue by electron microscope observation, immunohistochemical staining or PCR. SARS-CoV-2 infection may also cause myocardial injury through overactivetion [sic] of the immune system, with the release of a large number of cytokines and cytokine storms.

Which was the state of play last time I fact-checked these claims of SARS2 infecting multiple organs including the heart: that it might happen but there’s no smoking gun and plenty of ways this kind of thing can happen with any severe viral infection.

107413 ▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to guy153, 4, #243 of 907 🔗

The whole thread is here if you cant be bothered to scroll through Twitter. Excellent read!: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1299365746489819136.html

107433 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 3, #244 of 907 🔗

If I remeber correctly, I think this articcle was fasttracked.If this is not deception,tell me what is? And still this paper has already done enormous damage.

107440 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 3, #245 of 907 🔗

It’s bias, in this case severe. But it’s a reminder that when reading any paper you have to look carefully at the references and the evidence, not just the authors’ opinions, including of course when they are in agreement with one’s own confirmation bias.

107473 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to guy153, 1, #246 of 907 🔗

That’s what peer review is supposed to do. Although that could also be said to be a gatekeeping exercise in some circles

107476 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #247 of 907 🔗

That’s just people’s mates patting each other on the back. Evidence is the only thing that matters.

107501 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to guy153, #248 of 907 🔗

Worryingly, SPRS has cited this very study in the section on ‘Long Covid’:

https://swprs.org/post-acute-covid-long-covid/ (look at the links at the bottom)

The rest of the site is still a good source of good-quality debunking material but this worries us. Also we wonder why they changed the name to ‘Swiss Policy Research’ rather then Propaganda research. Are they under pressure, do you think?

Anyway we have a friend on the brink of scepticism to whom we’ve recently sent the SPRS site as a good one to look at. We now have to send him a ‘health warning’ about SPRS because if he reads that section he’ll probably freak out! MW and AG

107536 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #249 of 907 🔗

I read that article when you posted it originally. It seems reasonable to me and their presentation of it is factual and not alarmist. I don’t consider it harmful. Of course some people will freak out but what matters are the facts, on both sides.

107553 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to guy153, 3, #250 of 907 🔗

I know what you mean but you and I are probably better at evaluating something that, at first sight, seems frightening since we’ve been reading this kind of article on CV19 for months now. Coming to it cold might just confirm your worst fears about Covid.

This, plus the fact that SPRS links to the Biospace article which you say yourself is biased which makes me question their judgement.

I would still not be comfortable passing the SPRS ‘Long Covid’ post on to someone who I’m trying to reassure. Worse, it means that I’m now wary of passing on a link to an otherwise excellent site. MW

107954 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #251 of 907 🔗

A bit of balance gives it the ring of truth though perhaps.

107858 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #252 of 907 🔗

I thought at the time, that changing their name was sensible. Less off-putting to non-conspiracy theorists 😉

107921 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #253 of 907 🔗

Yes, I wondered if that was behind the change. MW

107882 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #254 of 907 🔗

I enjoyed that. There is evidently intelligent life on Twars. Enough to make me sign up, first time. Thank you.

107410 Albie, replying to Albie, 14, #255 of 907 🔗

That Jed Mecurio seems very self important. You write scripts for grown adults pretending to be other grown adults, pal. Big deal. Get over yourself.

107555 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Albie, #256 of 907 🔗

His show, Line of Duty – superb clever TV drama – is predicated on the notion that all police forces in this country are riddled with virtually invisible but vicious corruption. It’s a fully-fledged paranoid fantasy, super exciting as entertainment because literally any character on screen could turn out to have been acting as an agent of evil. The infection is everywhere…

107563 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Albie, #257 of 907 🔗

I enjoy line of duty featuring spineless arseholes at the top just like Ms Dick, but Bodyguard was a total pile of crap that could have been written on the back of a fag packet in 2 minutes, Maaam.

107414 Cecil B, 7, #258 of 907 🔗

As October approaches it is good to know that Section 4 The Vagrancy Act 1824 is still on the statute book
“Persons committing certain offences to be deemed rogues and vagabonds.”

Every person committing any of the offences herein-before mentioned, after having been convicted as an idle and disorderly person;  every person pretending or professing to tell fortunes, or using any subtle craft, means, or device, by palmistry or otherwise, to deceive and impose on any of his Majesty’s subjects;

Every person wandering abroad and lodging in any barn or outhouse, or in any deserted or unoccupied building, or in the open air, or under a tent, or in any cart or waggon, not having any visible means of subsistence  and not giving a good account of himself or herself;

Every person wilfully exposing to view, in any street, road, highway, or public place, any obscene print, picture, or other indecent exhibition  ; every person wilfully openly, lewdly, and obscenely exposing his person  in any street, road, or public highway, or in the view thereof, or in any place of public resort,  with intent to insult any female

Every person wandering abroad, and endeavouring by the exposure of wounds or deformities to obtain or gather alms; every person going about as a gatherer or collector of alms, or endeavouring to procure charitable contributions of any nature or kind, under any false or fraudulent pretence . . .

Every person being found in or upon any dwelling house, warehouse, coach-house, stable, or outhouse, or in any inclosed yard, garden, or area, for any unlawful purpose;

Every suspected person or reputed thief, frequenting any river, canal, or navigable stream, dock, or basin, or any quay, wharf, or warehouse near or adjoining thereto, or any street, highway, or avenue leading thereto, or any place of public resort, or any avenue leading thereto, or any street, or any highway or any place adjacent to a street or highway;  with intent to commit an indictable offence

Every person apprehended as an idle and disorderly person, and violently resisting any constable, or other peace officer so apprehending him or her, and being subsequently convicted of the offence for which he or she shall have been so apprehended; shall be deemed a rogue and vagabond, within the true intent and meaning of this Act; , it shall be lawful for any justice of the peace to commit such offender (being thereof convicted before him by the confession of such offender, or by the evidence on oath of one or more credible witness or witnesses,) to the house of correction, . . .  for any time not exceeding three calendar months

It would appear the Dictator and others may have committed an offence under the first paragraph

107427 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #259 of 907 🔗


Covid 19 coronavirus: Experts call for rethink on Auckland’s move to level 2

“Auckland University Professor Shaun Hendy, whose modelling has guided the Government’s response to date, said ministers should reconsider moving Auckland to alert level 2 on Monday – and if the change still goes ahead, employers should keep workers at home if possible.
“If you can work at home, you should continue to do so for the next few weeks,” he said.”
“Otago University Professor Michael Baker said Auckland should stay at least at a heightened “level 2.5” with the planned limit of 10 on social gatherings and everyone wearing masks in all indoor spaces outside their own homes.”
“Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern declined to comment today but is due to confirm alert levels at 1pm tomorrow.”

Is St Jacinda going to listen to her scientific advisors or not?

107437 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, 3, #260 of 907 🔗

Just looked at Professor Hendy’s Wiki page. Obviously knows a lot about infectious diseases, given his PhD studies:

‘The title of his PhD thesis was Cosmic strings in black hole spacetimes’

107444 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #261 of 907 🔗

Was it a pop up book?

107467 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 1, #262 of 907 🔗

4 deaths per million in NZ

107443 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #263 of 907 🔗

Problem with democracy? BBC bias not reporting thing fairly? Covid19 measure being seen as positive even in local press?

The BBC has a solution for the problem. BBC Local Democracy Reporters. Journalists loaded into local news organisation at the pay (and say so) of the BBC.


A local evening rag in Edinburgh installed their LDR into the city chambers where he sat and simply reported what the council wanted. No investigation, just a conduit communicator between us and them.

Your local news will be laced with similar. Thay are not overtly acknowledged. Why?

But this is just small fry compared to other private entities that are buying the news and fact checking organisations.


“Over the last decade, a small group of billionaire philanthropists have quietly moved into to seize control of key nodes of media, government policy, and education. They claim that they are merely trying to ‘fill in the funding gaps at struggling news organizations’ – especially in the wake of the coronavirus ‘pandemic.’ By far, the biggest player in this network is the Gates Foundation.”

The article is comprehensively linking to many sources.

107464 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 3, #264 of 907 🔗

It’s the same tactic we’ve seen in recent wars. Embedded Journalism is pure propaganda. This is the end result of the hollowing out of journalism since the 80s and 90s where local teams cut down, centralised newspapers simply regurgitating the same viewpoints

107479 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #265 of 907 🔗

Mark Twain, yes, Sam Clements, suggested in one of his books that he had started the franchised news system. If I remember correctly he also saw it as a bad thing easily corrupted. I’m not certain this is a true fact, but he certainly wrote about this being the case. We are perhaps seeing the thick end of that wedge.

107497 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 1, #266 of 907 🔗

wow! amazing discovery. i had never seen this before.. If you follow the link there further links to the detail – and the numbers involved. 144! One hundred and forty four. That is gross! (sorry!!). So the BBC pay for and embed 144 reporters with local newspaper organisations. For example 6 with the Manchester evening news, 5 with the Liverpool echo. And as Basics states, they are reporting on local politics – the mayors and the councils serving the boroughs that the newspapers cover, So what does a junior reporter earn. Say £25K. Including employer costs that’s around £4 million a year,

107535 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, #267 of 907 🔗

It used to be 250 from memory.

107539 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 2, #268 of 907 🔗

10 contracts awarded in Scotland, 21.5 reporters (no sure what .5 of a reporter is, maybe he/she is a very small town reporter).

State controlled media, hmm, sounds like n korea

107445 PastImperfect, 14, #269 of 907 🔗

With apologies to WSC

If we capitulate to the totalitarian government, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties and recover all the freedoms that have been wrenched away from us under the guise of ‘keeping us safe’.

107452 Anne, 4, #270 of 907 🔗

The reason doctors do not work the hours for the NHS that normal human beings do is the disaterous agreement made with the BMA by the last labour government. They do of course have time then for their private patients.

107454 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #271 of 907 🔗

KCDC admits that this outbreak is challenging South Korea’s contact tracers: Director Jeong: “Since Aug, we have accumulated 4400 patients..local public health offices are doing their best in tracing, but we are reaching our limits to follow all the explosion of new cases”

There are limits to test and trace even in Korea

107457 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to swedenborg, 4, #272 of 907 🔗

And they’re being honest about it!

107459 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 11, #273 of 907 🔗

Its has been a busy week on the front line ; not because of the arrival of the mythical second wave but because a lot of my colleagues are on leave. We have had a couple of locums one of whom gave clues that they were a sceptic…didn’t wear a face visor and declined the option of the practice ” scrubs ” to wear.

You need to be very careful in expressions of dissent in the NHS. This lady obviously has language I wouldn’t have chosen , but I did find her amusing and I am awaiting my medal and certificate as well. The BBC reports she is now under investigation by her NHS employers.


As for the ” scrubs ” mine are rather ill fitting and I really don’t want to wear them .I imagine the evidence base for doctors to wear them in the real world as opposed to the operating theatre is rather scant , rather like masks. I don’t wear them in the out of hours and never have done . I might try the surreptitious conversion by starting with civvie trousers and a scrub top and see the reaction of the martinet practice nurse.

One thing I did learn from direct conversation this week is that those directing the show who are high ranking in this spectacle have absolutely no idea that there is any other point of view . The echo chamber/ bubble is a very real thing.

107482 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #274 of 907 🔗

The lady Charlotte is an absolute hero for saying what she did. She basically stood up to the Emperor and said ‘you’ve got no clothes’.


107565 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 2, #275 of 907 🔗

Louise was the lady in the video, Charlotte (a different person) shared it.

107635 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #276 of 907 🔗

This summed it all up SO well!

107503 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Peter Thompson, #277 of 907 🔗

NHS gulag for her

107562 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #278 of 907 🔗

I looked at some of the comments under the video. I am not a twitter user… and i know why .. there are lots of complete nutters out there – and nastiness and vindictiveness. and ignorance. and those still misguided to believe the NHS is perfect and the whole COvid issue has been handled perfectly and dont you dare to contradict this view. Also so disappointing to realise that this girl will get disciplined for this…. everybody wants whistleblowers to come forward and be protected – as long as it the right cause, and if it is the wrong cause such as the NHS then throw them under a bus …… . So many of these people would be happily chatting to the Gestapo and pointing out the houses where the Jews are hiding

107465 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 1, #279 of 907 🔗

Petition not almost 40,000. Only 30,841. Need more signatures!

107488 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Fiat, 3, #280 of 907 🔗

which one? can you post a link to it please?

107469 swedenborg, 4, #281 of 907 🔗

Dissenter epidemiologist Simon Thornley reporting
The movement against ongoing lockdowns is growing in Auckland… .Demonstration.
He also has a youtube video explaining C-19. Very brave .Epidemiologist Univ Otago Auckland. If you see twitter responses now a hated man in NZ

107472 PaulH, replying to PaulH, 7, #282 of 907 🔗

“Twenty-second covid tests being trialled by Heathrow…”

Something a bit more sensible than 14 days’ house arrest

Agreed, this is better than the quarantine nonsense. But wouldn’t it be even better just to go back to normal as CV-19 is vanishing and turns out not to be that dangerous anyway.

Otherwise you are making travel dependent on health status and you might equally well have flu, HIV or hepatitis tests as well. And we will permanently stuck in a “New Abnormal”.

107537 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to PaulH, 4, #283 of 907 🔗

And DRUG tests…

107475 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #284 of 907 🔗
107480 Emily Tock, replying to Emily Tock, 8, #285 of 907 🔗

I have a very serious issue to discuss. National University of Ireland Galway is planning on ‘asking’ students and staff to sign a pledge in September. The Irish Examiner claims students will have to sign at the registration stage for their modules. Regardless of what the Irish Examiner’s claims re linkage to registration are, I have grave doubts as to the legality of this pledge. Could someone with expertise in human/student rights and employment law comment on this? I am in a difficult position because I am a final year PhD student and and an employee who will be taking tutorials this year, so anonymity is important for my funding, wages, and longterm career prospects.

One of the stranger aspects of this is that the Student Union has collaborated with a faculty member in the creation of this: https://www.nuigalway.ie/ourpromise/

There is a facebook page with an innocuous video and quote from the president regarding extending such a pledge beyond the university: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3851402458208455

The full text of the pledge is also available here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40035293.html

In these extraordinary times, our ask is for each student and member of staff to sign up to be part of the University community, to behave appropriately, to consider others, to follow our advice and the public health guidelines, to act responsibly and to uphold the core value of our institution: respect, [and] to respect everyone in the University and the wider community.
We ask everyone at the University to commit to following; Cúram Dá Chéile, our community promise:

  • I will follow NUI Galway and Public Health Guidelines related to reducing the spread of Covid-19. I understand that this is likely to change regularly so I will take personal responsibility for ensuring I am up to date with the latest information which is available at https://www.nuigalway.ie/alert/ .
  • If I begin to suffer with Covid-19 symptoms I will report these using the processes within the University and follow guidance to self-isolate and get a test. I accept the role that I have to play in making sure that the areas where we live, work, and study are as safe as they can be.
  • I will show empathy, respect and due consideration to others – my friends and peers, my colleagues, the wider Community, and all of those who help me achieve my goals whilst at University. I note that this commitment sits alongside the University’s policies around harassment and intimidation that I have a duty to assist in establishing an environment in which harassment, bullying, and victimisation are regarded as unacceptable.
  • I understand the importance of providing friendship, helping people avoid loneliness and isolation, and supporting others. Therefore I will look out for my friends and those I live, learn or work with. If I have a concern about someone, I will raise this with an appropriate person (lecturer, student services staff, etc.) so that help and support can be offered.
  • If I am challenged about my behaviour I will respond in an open, positive, and respectful manner – listening carefully to understand the concern, and changing my behaviour to remove it. I understand and accept that wilfully and repeatedly breaching University guidance is an act of misconduct and could lead to me being subject to disciplinary processes as outlined in the Student Code of Conduct. If I see situations that are contrary to guidance, I will remove myself from those situations as soon as possible.
  • I know that this is an ever developing situation – one which requires everyone’s ongoing vigilance and personal responsibility.
107491 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Emily Tock, 11, #286 of 907 🔗

“Look out for my friends…. if I have a concern about someone, I will raise this with an appropriate person…”

Recruiting informers.

107887 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Liam, 2, #287 of 907 🔗

Likewise ‘supporting others’ can be read as ‘telling them to obey the rules’…

As regards legality, maybe run the pledge by Robin Tilbrook or Francis Hoar?

107502 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Emily Tock, 5, #288 of 907 🔗

You missed out the last bullet point …


107514 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Emily Tock, 7, #289 of 907 🔗

My God! I heard about this on the bed wetters podcast, but written down it is even worse. Surely, there has to be some push back on this? Are other Irish universities following a similar line? My Dad is Irish and I have a lot of family and friends there, I find this sort of stuff totally contradictory to the general Irish mentality which sniffs BS a mile off and takes the piss out of pompous officialdom. I have to say though that those family members I have spoken to are generally ‘pant wetters’ and agree with the lockdown. Not all, and certainly not my Dad, but what a sad stare of affairs. Was heartened by the demo in Dublin though. Sorry this doesn’t answer your question, but we absolutely need the Irish people to regain their senses and listen to Cummins, Dolores and Van Morrison. The Irish are brilliant contrarians and could – and should- lead the world in calling out this rubbish.

107541 ▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #290 of 907 🔗

Thanks for the show of support! I thought I was losing my mind and that this was not really that big of a deal, and was therefore over-reacting. A complication is that I am a US citizen, and I have a 21-year-old son who is an undergrad at NUIG, as well as a 17-year-old whom I just brought back from NY (he was with his father – my husband, who doesn’t have the right to work in Ireland on my PhD visa) because his high school gave the choice of every other day in school, fully masked, or remote instruction… I am in a really difficult position, you see, hence the request for expert opinion.

107651 ▶▶▶▶ smurfs, replying to Emily Tock, 2, #291 of 907 🔗

Emily I’d suggest you try get in touch with Tracey O’Mahony via social media. She is a fearless solicitor who has just concluded a successful gofundme campaign to fund legal challenges against the Irish government C19 restrictions.

She is taking up all sorts of causes and posts regularly to her youtube channel and may well have addressed the problem you face.

All the best

107714 ▶▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to smurfs, #292 of 907 🔗

Many thanks!

107763 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #293 of 907 🔗

Print out the the Ivor Cummings letter for MPs on the Fat Emperor website. Alter it slightly for sending back to the University stating that you want the questions answered.

These battles are vitally important and you are being called to play your part. You may be reluctant but this madness only stops when we say no.

107821 ▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #294 of 907 🔗

Much obliged – am off to the blog now.

108201 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Chris Hume, #295 of 907 🔗

I saw Van Morrison with Them at the Whisky A Go Go, Sunset Boulevard, Hollywood, on a Sunday afternoon in 1966. The warm up group was The Doors before they hit the big time.

107523 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Emily Tock, 3, #296 of 907 🔗

Awful stuff. Bilge but dangerous with it. I can offer no help but just comment that I wonder what supporting openess and listening etc. the university will give to those who dissent or conscientiously object. Do they intend for such parties to become lonely or ostracised? They appear not to be an inclusive organisation.

107558 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Emily Tock, #297 of 907 🔗

What a peculiar “pledge”.

107621 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Emily Tock, 3, #298 of 907 🔗

Apart from this being unnecessary and having an ominous’Big Brother’ feel, If they’re making signature a precondition to receipt of services or any other benefit, or not signing it is likely to lead to adverse consequences/ discrimination, i too doubt the legality as it’s a wide ranging list of commitments , a number of which are vague, subjective and not legal requirements. I’d be particularly concerned about signing up to blanket ‘Guidelines’ which could change and without any reference to you. . If I were you I’d forward to Francis Hoar who’s one of the lead lawyers on the Dolan case. He’s pretty visible on Twitter and you could do so anonymously. Equally, you should bring it to the attention of TY.

107764 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Telpin, 1, #299 of 907 🔗

Francis has already tweeted about this

107679 ▶▶ annie, replying to Emily Tock, 2, #300 of 907 🔗

No human being should pledge to that.

108038 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Emily Tock, #301 of 907 🔗

This sounds like a pledge after being recruited as an informer for the Stasi!!!

107485 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 20, #302 of 907 🔗

Part 1:

I received an answer back from BBC complaints about why they keep stating a positive test equals the person has the virus when it does not. They replied:

“The role of this department is to respond to comment, query or criticism concerning programmes on any of the BBC’s national, regional and local television or radio services. We also deal with issues related to BBC’s policy.

As your complaint is not in reference to BBC output we are unable to investigate this further for you.”

So I’ve just sent them this back:

“The complaint was in relation to BBC output.
The comment “Any broadcast, TV show, news show” is clear enough.
The BBC broadcasts TV shows, news shows etc in vast quantity don’t they?
I thought they did as this is what they have a Charter for.
The BBC, in every news show local or national; or on radio, television and on the internet, continuously parrots the official line that a positive test for coronavirus equates to a case and that the person is suffering from covid-19.
As stated in my complaint, a FOI request to the DHSC was answered and clearly stated that this is not the case.
To recap:

One of my questions and the most important:

-supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.

The answer:

SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).

In fact in the FOI request answer there are even more facts about the reliability and accuracy of the tests, some I put here:

Patients can have SARS-CoV-2 RNA before onset of illness, during the illness and after resolution of symptoms (all variable periods). The result has to be taken into context of symptoms present.

I put the following question to both Matt Hancock and Jeremy Hunt, Secretary of State for Health and the Chair of the Parliamentary Committee on Health and Social Care respectively:


Neither even bothered to acknowledge the e-mail.

The DHSC also provided a link to a document by Health Technology Wales that is the official document the DHSC use for policy guidance:

– the official policy/guidance from DHSC to the various bodies who are following the above policy. I can confirm that the Department holds information relevant to your request. As the information held by the Department is in the public domain, we will under Section 21 of the FOI Act (information accessible to the applicant by other means) refer you to the published source, a summary of evidence on the accuracy of the test,


It does include a few notable gems such as (the paper’s original comments in blue with their updates in umber and with my notes in red ):

We identified 39 individual studies and one pooled analysis reporting outcomes including diagnostic accuracy, detection rates and the time taken to obtain test results. We carried out quality assessment of the studies and judged the majority to be at risk of bias in one or more aspect of their design or conduct, which means their results may not be reliable. So not too accurate then these studies?

Some studies did not include methods of confirmatory/differential diagnosis to validate the test results obtained (e.g. the proportion of likely false positive and negative results). A pooled analysis estimated the sensitivity of an initial RT-PCR test result to be 89%, using results of repeated RT-PCR as the reference standard. So does this mean that there is an estimated 11% false result?

There are important gaps in the available evidence on the effectiveness of tests for the presence of SARS-CoV-2. Studies of virus testing in asymptomatic patients, or in specific populations such as healthcare workers are limited in number and there is no evidence on the validated diagnostic performance of the tests beyond their use in the hospital setting. So pretty useless then?

a true assessment of the accuracy of RT-PCR test results is very challenging, and using these RT-PCR for validation mean the same issues apply to the results of antibody tests studied in this way. S o the test has lots of problems with accuracy and the antibody test cannot be used for doublechecking the results due to these inaccuracies?

107487 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 26, #303 of 907 🔗

Part 2:

So basically as admitted by the DHSC you are using tests that are “unreliable” to say the least, have no reference standard to double check the accuracy against and that have results that means nothing medically.

To state otherwise is a deliberate misrepresentation of the truth – to put it bluntly a lie basically – and as a supposedly impartial broadcaster and not a propaganda arm of central Government the BBC, nor any other broadcaster, is allowed to deliberately mislead the viewers with incorrect information especially when the facts have been given to them and explained simply and clearly.

That is unless you have been given specific instructions from the Government, for political reasons, to continue to follow the “positive test means you have the virus” lie

To continue to do so in a deliberate manner is against OFCOM standards and unless I receive an satisfactoriy explanation on why the BBC continues to broadcast non-truth within 7 days I will formally submit a complaint to OFCOM about this matter.

Your non-answer is not satisfactory as either the BBC is deliberately lying in their broadcasts or acting as a mouthpiece for Government which means either way you can no longer be thought of as an impartial source of facts or news.

Yours sincerely

107506 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #304 of 907 🔗

Updated version 18th Aug of article posted yesterday
Diagnosing COVID-19 infection: the danger of over-reliance on positive test results The evidence shows that false positive PCR results are common enough to impact clinical and policy decisions.
“The high specificities (usually 100%) reported in PCR-based tests for SARS-CoV-2 infection do not represent the real-world use of these tests, where contamination and human error produce significant rates of false positives. Widespread misunderstanding of these false positive rates affects an array of clinical, case management and health policy decisions. Similarly, health authorities’ guidance on interpreting test results is often wrong. Steps should be taken immediately to reduce the frequency and impacts of false positive”

107583 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #305 of 907 🔗

Very good and very thorough. I am not sure anyone at the BBC has the intellectual capacity or even the desire to bother to think this out and that is our problem. Whenever I read (rarely) any of their articles I find then so shallow and poorly constructed.

107613 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to wendy, 1, #306 of 907 🔗

If it’s any comfort, I similarly get a non responses when I complain about very specific items / reporting within news broadcasts. The BBC claims they either can’t find the offending material or ‘ that they apply the most rigorous of reporting standards’- ie they make no attempt to answer the complaint. I don’t think they even bother to read our complaints anymore – just issue an automated response and complain about having to deal with a vast volume of complaints. The irony of what that actually means is entirely lost on them.

107584 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #307 of 907 🔗

Look on the bright side :

As your complaint is not in reference to BBC output we are unable to investigate this further for you.”

… is an admission that the BBC does not do investigative reporting – just like most of the MSM.

108204 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RickH, #308 of 907 🔗

I asked a certain journalist (really just a copywriter/propagandist) five years ago what happened to investigative journalism and he banned me from his Twitter account. Read Ben Hecht’s ‘A child of the Century’. He also wrote the script for ‘His Girl Friday’ with Cary Grant.

107496 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 18, #309 of 907 🔗

What is this, do my eyes deceive me?

Coronavirus: Why are deaths falling as cases rise?

“Are the government and media overdoing coronavirus? Is it time to move on and get back to normal life?”

Has Fergus Walsh visited this site and started to get it? Although it has a generous helping of usual BBC spin, for the most part it brings up many of our arguments. Am I interpreting this more positively than I should be? Saying that, it is quite low down on the news page but I would imagine may feed into TV news later today.

107549 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to TheBluePill, 5, #310 of 907 🔗

Good grief! Never expected to see anything like that from the BBC. Really heartening.

107566 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Charlie Blue, 7, #311 of 907 🔗

i think Fergus Walsh may be reading the 5.30 am Shipping forecast on R4 as from next week

107571 ▶▶ wendy, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #312 of 907 🔗

Well my goodness. It is a good start. It’s a bit mixed up, one minute being optimistic the next doomsayer but it’s there.

107574 ▶▶ wendy, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #313 of 907 🔗

Carl Heneghan is also quoted in a few BBC items, not sure they have accurately quoted him, but does it mean that he is being listened to? I so do hope so as he can get us out of this mess.

107874 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #314 of 907 🔗

It was top of the news page at 7.00am

107498 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #315 of 907 🔗

Anyone looking to be uplifted. Tune into a live stream of Berlin protests. It is incredible.

107505 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Basics, #316 of 907 🔗


107547 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, #318 of 907 🔗


we need a drone to fly over to get an idea of real numbers

last time rt / ruptly avoided zooming out too much – it felt as though this was done to avoid showing the sheer volume of people there

107579 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to anon, 1, #319 of 907 🔗

Not apparently ‘awesome’ – I’m afraid, from what I can see (thinking the Iraq protest). We need some context.

107582 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to RickH, #320 of 907 🔗

how do you mean?

107589 ▶▶▶▶ hat man, replying to Basics, #321 of 907 🔗

I’m guessing that they’re doing this so as to pick up the different groups, with different themes on their banners, that assemble in this area, and then move off. It may make the pictures more diverse and interesting for viewers, perhaps. Agree that drone pictures would be great as well.

107622 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to hat man, #322 of 907 🔗

It *appears* to me police are obstructing crowds from getting to the Brandenberg Gate. Someone with local knowledge may be better able to explain what is happening. Many are at the Gate others elsewhere are obstructed.

107638 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, #323 of 907 🔗

did you spot the polizie in visors and muzzles?

damned fools.

107509 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, #324 of 907 🔗

Yes, looking good, no great! This is a demonstration against diabolical impositions on people’s lives and guess what?

A counter-protest by opposing groups is also expected to take place.


107515 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Basics, 1, #325 of 907 🔗

There’s a real live protest happening in London in a couple of hours.

107525 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 1, #326 of 907 🔗

Yes. Keep mentioning it and updating.

107518 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Basics, 7, #327 of 907 🔗

From the BBC

“A similar march several weeks ago attracted anti-vaccination campaigners, conspiracy theorists and self-described “free thinkers”.”

No mention of people who don’t actually like living under a distatorship

107551 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cecil B, 6, #328 of 907 🔗

the bbc are disgusting, shameful and a very real threat to any freedoms we have left in these oppressing times

I fucking despise them

107556 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to anon, 2, #329 of 907 🔗


107599 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cecil B, 2, #330 of 907 🔗

Yuck, those damned free thinkers, how dare people think freely.

107644 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Cecil B, 4, #331 of 907 🔗

Heaven forfend! not those free thinkers, as opposed to the brainwashed fuckwits who believe the good old Beeb!

107669 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Cecil B, 1, #332 of 907 🔗


108205 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cecil B, #333 of 907 🔗

Free thinkers? Shameful.

107504 mjr, replying to mjr, 5, #334 of 907 🔗

TOBY,, we need some mechanism to indicate that the new days blog has been posted. Most of us keep the blog page open with comments, so we can review every so often. That means that we do not see the new page being posted, and as it is done at random times it is quite annoying. When the new page is posted can someone in admin put a note on the old page. usually it is a viewer who does it if they notice

Reposted as added to yesterday’s site.
Just been for my morning walk to feed the swans and pick brambles. Listened to last nights “Any Questions” ( really “any BBC approved questions”. It is so depressing. 3 MPs. con, lab and SNP. All non entities. All bedwetters. Numpty BBC host who toed the BBC line and directed the discussions down that path as she did with Toby last week. And sadly, Ian Dale was the fourth panellist and he was disappointing. I expected far more common sense and challenge from him.
Even the questions were from bedwetters.
Only one questioner had a decent questions. A landlord who had not had rent for 9 months from a working tenant. Of course she cannot evict this person as all tenants are protected. Unintended consequences of a dodgy, ill thought out law.
Now having breakfast and BBC news showing an interview with the outgoing BBC DG, Hall, Explains why the BBC is where it is now What a complete Islington liberal woke arsehole.
No more BBC today otherwise my gonads will explode

107534 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, #335 of 907 🔗

Tip on the page update frustration, check the time of the last post. Another clue is the orange posted comment circle – it give a sense if the new days update has been posted or not. Vague, but helpful.

107548 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Basics, #336 of 907 🔗

True, when you see the orange circle stopping, you know that the thread has died. MW

107513 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #337 of 907 🔗


Is it a positive sign that they are at least admitting that mask wearing causes problems?

107521 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ewan Duffy, 8, #338 of 907 🔗

Indeed. I posted links to ‘mask-ne’ and ‘mask mouth’ a week or so ago. I am sure there is an epidemic of problems building. I’ve met people who say they are getting things like throat problems and sore gums. Yikes! MW

108079 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #339 of 907 🔗

If you call these things problems:

“It’s caused “by a combination of friction/rubbing from the mask, which causes local pressure on the sebaceous ducts (sweat glands) and irritates the skin barrier combined with the warm, moist micro-environment under the mask, which dilates the pores, increases sebum (oil) production and causes clogging of the ducts with bacteria and sebum (oil)”, she says.
Breakouts on the area covered by the mask – everywhere from lower cheeks and jawline to your chin and even around your nose – are the most common symptoms. “The spots tend to be very small papules and pustules (red spots and whiteheads) in the above locations”, Nicola says.
“It is not a cystic type of acne which is usually larger lesions under the skin, but more a superficial type of acne. It can also be seen in those wearing visors, with similar eruption across the forehead.”

Note the bit about the warm, moist micro-environment under the mask. A happy home for bacteria of all kinds.
But you are told you just have to put up with it. Indefinitely. And that it will be worse in winter. Welcome to government-mandated self-harm.

107528 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #340 of 907 🔗

The Victorian state , a nasty pseudo medical police state in action.


107544 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #341 of 907 🔗

The Australian and NZ model for (our) future.

107530 guy153, replying to guy153, 7, #342 of 907 🔗

Remember swedenborg told us some time ago that the Spanish antibody tests were looking for anti-N antibodies? We saw from this paper that these antibodies peak early and drop quickly, while the actual anti-S1 antibodies that will neutralize infections are longer lived.

Now in the Lancet some calibration of the antibody tests the UK government is using by some people at Imperial. The government’s test is also looking for anti-N antibodies.


“Among 511 samples with Abbott binding ratios of 0·25 to less than 1·4 [which is the threshold for negative] , 294 (58%) had detectable anti-RBD antibodies”

In other words: 58% of people who had definitely had Covid-19 (according to Imperial’s test for anti-RBD, validated by another test for anti-S1) tested negative in the Abbott test, meaning the Abbott test will underestimate prevalence by a factor of at least 1.7.

In fact it’s likely that many people who had only a mild infection would also be negative in the Imperial test, so the true underestimate is likely to be a greater factor than 1.7.

The Abbott test had a specificity of 95.5% when calibrated against the Imperial test. It’s
known that anti-N antibodies can arise from other HCoVs.

The overall accuracy of the test therefore works out at 69%. Not a great deal better than the 50% theoretical minimum (I mentioned the buttercup test for whether someone likes butter the other day– it is 100% sensitive and 0% specific and has an accuracy of 50%).

Their conclusion:

“The UK Government’s decision to facilitate use of Abbott’ assay was intemperate. Anti-NP is insensi­tive in the field: why was this insensitivity not recognised by those who validated its use in the UK? Moreover, Abbott’s assay does not indicate accurately the presence of neutralising and potentially protective antibodies in the convalescent individual”

107538 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to guy153, 12, #343 of 907 🔗

This was rolled out for patients as well in July . Many chose to have covid19 antibody blood tests in the surgery. A few of my elderly patients turned up to have antibodies, and they nearly all reported flu or cold symptoms in late April / May . Most people lose their antibodies within 6 weeks . Pointless test but I m sure the developer of the test made loads of money.

107575 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to guy153, 2, #344 of 907 🔗

Haha love the buttercup analogy.

107596 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to guy153, 1, #345 of 907 🔗

That helps explain quite a lot

107712 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sophie123, 1, #346 of 907 🔗

We were talking about Lombardy the other day. These guys found 43% seropositive in one area near Bergamo. Somehow this turned into a claim that pervades Twitter and the MSM that levels of at least 60% (I still don’t know where that figure came from) are to be expected everywhere before anyone has any kind of herd immunity.

The Lombardy guys were looking for anti-S1 and anti-S2 antibodies. Not only are these completely incomparable to any results that were looking for anti-N (as the Lancet document shows), but this study shows that anti-S2 can indeed neutralize SARS2 but can also be found in people who never had Covid-19. These are cross-immunity antibodies from other coronaviruses.

Is an anti-S2 positive necessarily a false positive though? Well no, since those antibodies actually work against SARS2, and your body might have ended up using them because it had some left over (or memory cells for them) from a recent HCoV.

It’s very difficult to make an antibody test that can tell who has had a mild infection. If you have a bad infection in the hospital you are less likely to be using immune memory (or it wouldn’t have been so bad) and you are more likely to end up with the antibodies for the SARS2-specific epitopes the tests are looking for (although anti-N isn’t even that SARS2-specific).This is why they appear to have good accuracy when calibrated against severe cases.

We hear about killer-T cells being used for viral clearance. This is possible but there are also lots of ways to have a successful antibody response but test negative for whatever threshold of whatever exact antibodies they’re looking for.

107791 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 2, #347 of 907 🔗

Now that is worth knowing. Why are government seemingly oblivious to it though, when they should be able to access the best scientific advice?

107848 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #348 of 907 🔗

The Lancet article links to a government document which was PHE’s assessment of the test.

It looks like their known true positive sample was 96 people with Covid-19 (in other words with symptoms, at least 14 of whom were hospitalized) who also tested PCR positive. They found a sensitivity of about 90%, but commented:

“It should be noted here that none of the patients with previously positive PCR who
tested negative by this assay had been hospitalised for COVID-19 disease and most
likely had a mild disease outcome.”

In other words the false negatives were “mild” enough not to be hospitalized.

They would have got a very different picture of the sensitivity if they had calibrated the test against mild or asymptomatic positives. But this is what you need of you’re trying to use it to assess herd immunity.

107894 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #349 of 907 🔗

I didn’t think that the Imperial study I was invited to participate in via swab (binned letter as not ill, never had flu ever, didn’t think I’d be adding to the sum of human knowledge) would be assessing herd immunity, among other things. Do you know if it is? Too late now but I might have done it if so!

107948 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 1, #350 of 907 🔗

You need a small amount of blood for the antibody tests. If it was swabs it was presumably PCR testing.

107545 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #351 of 907 🔗

We are listening to ‘Summer Record Review’ on Radio 3. Today’s featured ‘BBC Proms’ composer (!) is Bartok. I bet he’d love to know that but he’s in good company with the likes of Beethoven.

AG heard the person picking the Bartok extracts say something like ‘ Bartok had a great respect for Hungarian folk music and the people who sang and play it.’

It’s the only BBC we listen to now, a bit of a Saturday morning ritual, but, given it’s the BBC, is this a subliminal message? Does it mean that future historians will puzzle over a strange, risky, ritual. And, if you find any vocal music lying around, DO NOT attempt to perform it. Anyone caught doing this will be classed as a bio-hazard and forced to self-isolate for 14 days.

BTW, a woman behind the counter in a newsagents, muzzled up was actually singing behind her mask yesterday. I found it very disturbing. MW

108207 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #352 of 907 🔗
107554 T. Prince, 1, #353 of 907 🔗

FFS, Project Fear Mk iv is…’Brex-emic’ !!


107569 Ian, replying to Ian, 26, #354 of 907 🔗

I read that Hancock is predicting ‘significant local lockdowns and national restrictions’ this winter as Covid and flu combine and people ‘spend more time indoors’ – queue the need to wear masks at all times outdoors?
When is this spineless useless government going to get a bloody grip? Where tf are the independent thinkers in parliament that will challenge this unadulterated bullshit?!

107573 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Ian, 15, #355 of 907 🔗

Chilling isn’t it?

No second wave but there will be ‘significant local lock downs and national restrictions’ because Herr Hancock says so.

107578 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #356 of 907 🔗

hancock needs locking down


107580 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #357 of 907 🔗

Keep everybody on edge and local councils even more obsessed with stupid stuff.

107581 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #358 of 907 🔗

They’re following the script. No democracy – parliament is irrelevant. MW

107610 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #359 of 907 🔗

Bozo said 3 weeks ago to be ready for the 2nd wave in 2 weeks. I think he needs a new crystal ball.

108074 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #360 of 907 🔗

New balls of any kind would help.

108216 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bella Donna, #361 of 907 🔗

He better find another medium. Or a Ouija board.

108212 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #362 of 907 🔗

Our Fearless Leader.

107577 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ian, 1, #363 of 907 🔗

IN Parliament?
Paid handsomely to stay away.

107587 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Ian, 9, #364 of 907 🔗

They are not spineless or useless.

It’s just that their aims are not what they might appear to be.

They are deliberately keeping the fear going to serve their agenda. And so far it is going very well for them.

107594 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to PaulH, 10, #365 of 907 🔗

Very true.No one could be this incompetent.Watch footage of foreign politicians speaking.They use exactly the same words and sentences when talking about Covid measuresAll reading from a script;who provided it is the question.

107662 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #366 of 907 🔗


107588 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ian, 10, #368 of 907 🔗

Yes, we’ve got this from The Telegraph, along the same lines (paywall):


The headline is:

Winter Covid surge would kill 81,000 people in reasonable worst case scenario, leaked Sage papers reveal

What the bloody hell is a “reasonable worst case”?

An extract:

Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, has warned that restrictions may not be eased over Christmas to avoid an “uptick” in the number of Covid-19 cases.

BBC’s Newsnight reported a “reasonable worst-case planning assumption” presented to the Government warned there could be up to 81,000 excess deaths directly attributed to Covid-19 between July and next March.

The broadcaster said the scenario was laid out in a document signed off by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) for the Cabinet Office at the end of July.

Mr Hancock said countries in others parts of the world were already experiencing a second wave, adding it was “a very serious threat”.

I wish these chumps would stop using that ridiculous word “uptick”.

107603 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Tenchy, 12, #369 of 907 🔗

Reasonable worst case. Now where have I heard those words before? Oh yes, Neil Ferguson when he said that in a reasonable worst case scenario there would be 65,000 deaths due to Swine Flu in the UK. Total deaths were 457.

107642 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Tenchy, 5, #370 of 907 🔗

Leaked papers my ass!

108218 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, #371 of 907 🔗

Uptick a nasal swab up his nose.

107607 ▶▶ A Heretic, replying to Ian, 12, #372 of 907 🔗

So because people are spending more time indoors we’re going to put a stop to that by locking down and making them spend more time indoors. Wait, what?

107616 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ian, 3, #373 of 907 🔗

Where tf are the independent thinkers in parliament?”

The term ‘hens’ teeth’ comes to mind.

107627 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ian, 3, #374 of 907 🔗

Exactly what happened to the opposition? Do they accept everything Hancock says?

107650 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Victoria, #375 of 907 🔗

Hancock accepts everything they say. That’s the strategy: prevents Labour using the ‘heartless Tories’ line.

107684 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ian, #376 of 907 🔗

Wancock hasn’t been so much in the news lately. So he presses the LD hysteria button and … bingo!
I’m sure nobody on this site needs any guidance from me on where to tell Wancock to stick his e pxtensive anything.

107884 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #377 of 907 🔗

He’s been in Cornwall on holiday. Just got back with a suntan.

107727 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Ian, 2, #378 of 907 🔗

It’s just utter, utter crud. We should be encouraging people to get out and about, socially interact, eat healthily, exercise, sleep, stock up on supplements etc so they’re as healthy as possible come winter – not lock them up again!

108209 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ian, #379 of 907 🔗

Cockup. Such a beautiful mind.

107570 RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #380 of 907 🔗

The ‘Unherd’ interview with Michael Levitt is a must (see above), for another rational dissection of the question of risk :


I have my usual concerns about his use of the rubber ruler of ‘excess deaths’, and I think his comparative timescales are too short to make sense of this term – but he is only following what has become an epidemiological ‘truism’ that is actually pretty imprecise.

However, his comments on the subject of Risk and proportionality are spot on – particularly in terms of whet he calls the ‘suicide’ of western society.

107637 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to RickH, 2, #381 of 907 🔗

Another excellent interview from Unherd. Why oh why can our BBC not manage anything of this quality with all their funding. So refreshing to have an interviewer ask carefully considered questions with the aim to actually listen to the answer rather than creat a gotcha.

107659 ▶▶ NappyFace, replying to RickH, 1, #382 of 907 🔗

Of limited relevance if one Covid death carries the same weight as 1,00 deaths from other causes, because the government and media say so.

107572 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 16, #383 of 907 🔗

At last, some encouraging headlines from the beeb! (My emphases.)

Coronavirus: Is it time to move on?

Coronavirus: Why are deaths falling as cases rise? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53951764

There are many ways of counting Covid-related deaths, but they all show mortality peaked in April and has been falling ever since.
If we look solely at those who died within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test, this has fallen by 99% from nearly 1,000 a day to, on average, less than 10.
That compares to an average of 30 men a day who die from prostate cancer, and 30 women from breast cancer. Neither of these figures is read out nightly on the TV news, unlike the statistics for cases and coronavirus deaths.

…. True, confirmed coronavirus cases have been rising for a couple of months, but this can be largely explained by increases in testing. The number of swab tests done in the community has doubled since the start of July. More swabbing of noses and throats leads to more detection of the virus, but that has not yet translated into more hospital cases.

Unfortunately, he does fall into the habitual jargon trap. This quote: We are far from any sort of triumph over this brutal disease, gleefully seized on and amplified to 50-point by some party-line sub for the benefit of the skimmers, probably undoes much of the sanity in the article.

There’s the usual bit of utter nonsense too: Respiratory viruses don’t circulate as well in the summer months. …. So the virus has had less chance to jump from one person to the next.

He doesn’t answer the original question: Is it time to move on? so the conclusion is left to the reader. But he quotes some sensible scientists and puts some context with his figures. Just maybe it’s a sign that the wheels are starting to wobble a little on the beeb fearmongering juggernaut.

107595 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #384 of 907 🔗

It’s very strange from him, as all of the pieces he’s given on the BBC that I have had the misfortune to watch he’s consistently pushed the HMG narrative that we’re all going to die.

107645 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #385 of 907 🔗

I really hope this is the beginning of a real turning point. As the rest of the journalist herd see this kind of article, they may feel that writing what seems blindingly obvious (to us) is no longer going to get them in a Twitter shitstorm.

107653 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Cheezilla, #386 of 907 🔗

I worry that they are now moving away from the “cases/second wave” BS and have a new plan. I don’t know what it is but it’s probably going to be something to do with the weather getting colder and all colds and flu being tagged as Covid and all that entails…

107871 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lockdown Truth, #387 of 907 🔗

‘Brex-emic’. Coming to a cinema near you very soon. I suppose we really should have expected this shite….


108219 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #388 of 907 🔗

jump from one person to the next.

It’s a very agile virus .

107591 smileymiley, 3, #389 of 907 🔗

This is mindblowing..

Shows how the CCP have used social media to push the Covid19 farce

107593 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #390 of 907 🔗

No PA system allowed at Trafalgar Sq demo – won’t be the same with X-R, will it?

107597 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #391 of 907 🔗

September X-R protests planned to bring traffic in London to a halt.The problem is TFL have beaten them to it.

107598 ▶▶ Basics, replying to James Leary #KBF, #392 of 907 🔗

PA was allowed for the Gates of Baal or whatever weird 3D printed plastic 3rd scale arch ceremony this https://youtu.be/aHidhPgQwEk

107600 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #393 of 907 🔗

What’s the rationale behind the ban?

107611 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Tenchy, 2, #394 of 907 🔗

Speakers are here just not being used!

107628 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 2, #395 of 907 🔗

To stop COVIDS blasting out the speakers OBVIOUSLY.

107601 James Leary #KBF, 5, #396 of 907 🔗

Things improving but still a lot of just shouting!

107602 Sophie123, replying to Sophie123, 16, #397 of 907 🔗

Presenter on LBC right now who previously was a complete lockdown lover is explaining how “cases” rising is actually not a bad thing as long as death rate not rising

Has the penny dropped?!?!

107606 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Sophie123, 2, #398 of 907 🔗

Listening too. Seems to be talking absolute sense so far.

107721 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sophie123, 1, #399 of 907 🔗

Yeah, he pushed the logic of the Trafford Council member who was upset the government had lifted their local lockdown.

Good to see. He also railed against a poor caller who was scared schools were death traps. These people are regularly being shown to be out of touch now

107608 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #400 of 907 🔗

I happened to sneeze into my handkerchief whilst we were in town and a young man swerved into the railings in the walkway to avoid me! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

107612 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #401 of 907 🔗

Ha, what will they do when they sneeze into their mask

107623 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to stefarm, 5, #402 of 907 🔗

no joke I witnessed a zombie sneeze into his muzzle recently

I think this sums up how effectively they have dumbed-down the masses

107746 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stefarm, 3, #403 of 907 🔗

Exactly. Some describe masks as cloth petri dishes, which is exactly what they are!

107614 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #404 of 907 🔗

Covid 19:84

“Matt Hancock claims backlog of up to 2.4 MILLION patients awaiting cancer treatment or scans should clear ‘within months'” Daily Mail

In other words 2.4 MILLION patients awaiting cancer treatment or scans should die ‘within months’.

107625 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #405 of 907 🔗

Why would he state such a thing? Either it’s true or he has deliberately antagonised feeling. 2.4 cancer patients seen in months, others here will know if that is possible.

So, why is he deliberately talking to antagonise the nation?

107655 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #406 of 907 🔗

Well, it probably will clear within months – about 200 or so might do it!

107716 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #407 of 907 🔗

We should lockdown again to clear it

107618 Rod Jones, replying to Rod Jones, 2, #408 of 907 🔗


What could possibly go wrong with non health professionals administering unlicensed ‘vaccines’, where the manufacturers are indemnified against prosecution if anything did actually go wrong? Sign me up for a double dose! Well worth the half hour careful read, just ignore all the alarm bells that will ring, the technocratic state really does care about us.

107875 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Rod Jones, 1, #409 of 907 🔗

Looks from Simon Dolan’s Twitter like he has heard that the flu and CV 19 vaccinations will be given at the same time.. the thread also contains this little gem:
The Cv vax will contain gm malaria. The flu vax will sterilise the kids amongst other things and spread a “virus” as the 2nd wave.’

Hope this is not true..

107620 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #410 of 907 🔗

Too much anti-5G at demo for me.

107624 ▶▶ Basics, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #411 of 907 🔗

Thanks for roving and reporting. The demo is to move to parliament sq later for different speakers.

107713 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #412 of 907 🔗

Same. 5g and NWO. Even Qnon gets a mention.

Though the rabbit hole awaits us all. Why is there such investment in this agenda when the science is clearly saying this is not a pandemic? The real agenda is not obvious so I am happy to listen to any and all speculation.

107626 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #413 of 907 🔗

Live stream from Trafalgar Square:


107648 ▶▶ anon, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #414 of 907 🔗

“broadcast is offline”

for me at least..

107630 James Leary #KBF, 2, #415 of 907 🔗

Piers Corbyn on now. Sounds HORRIBLY like his brother. Effective though!

107632 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #416 of 907 🔗
107634 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #417 of 907 🔗

Sonia Poulton, I remember her from The People’s Voice. David Icke TV.

107639 PaulC, replying to PaulC, 17, #418 of 907 🔗

Latest from our local NHS health group – if we want a flu jab we have to go to an army airfield for a drive through injection while we stay in the car.
Far too dangerous at the surgery.
You couldn’t make this up!

107656 ▶▶ davews, replying to PaulC, 5, #419 of 907 🔗

And if you don’t have a car….
I have to pop down to our surgery next week to return a health questionnaire they sent me. No doubt they will insist on a mask just to give them the envelope at the door. It does seem at least that the media are waking up to the effective closure of the GP service.

107671 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to PaulC, 5, #420 of 907 🔗

That is bollocks beyond belief. I had a letter about the free flu jab I’m entitled to. I’m not putting up with crap like that. I’ll go to the chemists and pay for it, like last year.

107680 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 1, #421 of 907 🔗

If it’s free at the GP, it’s free at the chemist.

107719 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to RickH, #422 of 907 🔗

Ah yes, I forgot. Thanks.

107640 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 18, #423 of 907 🔗

Average age of coronavirus related deaths is over eighty. Life expectancy is under eighty. The virus is having zero effect on mortality.

107661 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #424 of 907 🔗

It’s not ‘zero’ effect – but it is nothing exceptional. Just another season of infection.

107677 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #425 of 907 🔗

As I say to potential sceptics – you’re better off dying with CCP Flu than other stuff! Seems to do the trick.

107689 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #426 of 907 🔗

This is the central argument. You can die from any number and combinations of diseases. Mortality statistics are the only way of knowing whether we are doing better or worse than normal.

“Normal” is the only real parameter we can use to compare. If we spent enough money, we could always prolong the average lifespan by a small amount. The question is: what to spend the money on. A healthier diet when young? More exercise? Maybe better quality of life through hip and knee surgery? Medical intervention for the terminally ill? We could put paramedics on every street corner to get to stroke and heart attack victims quicker, but we don’t. We could do more cancer screening to catch it earlier, but we don’t.

To me, the mortality statistics just don’t justify the enormous allocation of resources to protecting against this virus. If all that money had been spent on children’s diet and education the net benefit would have been overwhelmingly greater.

107743 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to WhyNow, 1, #427 of 907 🔗

Excellent point. I have occasionally thought that if the goal was actually to spend £x billion to “save” y number of lives then the best thing to spend it on would be access to clean water sources and mosquito nets. I’m not sure if the virtue-signallers go as far as valuing all lives equally though.

107641 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 17, #428 of 907 🔗

I’m glass half full today https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8676535/Jenny-Harries-says-face-coverings-evidence-not-strong.html -will the Government now accept that like Amsterdam and Rotterdam, you have to get rid of muzzles to get the shoppers back on the High Street?

107652 ▶▶ IanE, replying to arfurmo, 11, #429 of 907 🔗

Fair question! So you deserve an answer – NO, of course not: what do you think we have, an honest, sane, sensible and reasonable government?

107673 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to arfurmo, 4, #430 of 907 🔗

Mrs Tenchy just returned from shopping in Middlesbrough. Saturday morning is usually packed. This morning – very quiet. A number of her favourite shops have permanently closed. However, I’m informed that in the shopping arcades (Hill Street and Cleveland Centre) only about 40% are muzzled. Inside the shops; about 100%. The council (Middlesbrough Borough Council), one of Britain’s worst (and that take some doing), have recently reintroduced car park charges.

107643 helen, replying to helen, 3, #431 of 907 🔗

Robert F Kennedy appearing this afternoon on Querdenken stage in Berlin.. check out Samuel Eckert YT live stream

107657 ▶▶ anon, replying to helen, #432 of 907 🔗

got a link please? trying to share

107767 ▶▶▶▶ helen, replying to anon, #434 of 907 🔗

Yes thats it. Its been off and on but its working now.

107649 TJN, replying to TJN, 14, #435 of 907 🔗

Just got in, so haven’t read most of today’s posts yet, hence apologies if this has already been posted.

BBC Radio 4, Today programme this morning. At 8:10 there was an interview with that charlatan Ferguson, which I caught the tail end of and will listen to in full to later. When the interview finished, one of the presenters remarked that Scottish schools had been back for a while now, but that social distancing meant they had to spend breaks outside. The weather has been horrendous, hence many have got soaking wet and have had to spend the rest of the day in wet clothes. The presenters seem to be laughing.

So not only do they not see anything scandalously wrong here, they appear to think it’s funny.

Here’s the link:


Schools bit starts at 1:20:19

107654 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to TJN, 6, #436 of 907 🔗

Yep, it’s all a joke at our expense. When are people going to realise and wake up???!!!

107665 ▶▶ Basics, replying to TJN, 5, #437 of 907 🔗

Children have been sun burned and returning home after a day in wet clothes. Documented in press.

107715 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to TJN, 4, #438 of 907 🔗

You have to remember that these people are psychopaths who lack empathy for others.

108007 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Poppy, #439 of 907 🔗

That’s what I thought when I heard it – I actually found the exchange quite chilling.

Still haven’t played the Ferguson interview yet. I suppose I’d better steel myself and get through it.

107663 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #440 of 907 🔗
107681 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #441 of 907 🔗

Dolores Cahill about to speak.

107687 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Edward, 3, #442 of 907 🔗

V good, wish I was there. Encouraging to see so many people.

107664 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #443 of 907 🔗

German police appear to have blocked crowds from athering at a central point. The police are now carrying off demonstrators who they blocked one by one. The people are sitting peacefully. The police are using violence. There is even a baby and a pram in the situation. The protests have been absolutely good natured and so far remain so.

Ruptly youtube channel for live streaming now.

107670 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #445 of 907 🔗

Thanks for that Not a bad sized crowd considering the weather isn’t that great.

107704 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #446 of 907 🔗

Scale of Berlin cowds impossible to judge. Many, many, many people spread over many locations. One of the live streams had 55k watching.
Just to try and give scale. Endless people.

107667 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 17, #447 of 907 🔗

Just been to meet someone at a petrol filling station, they were late so I sat and did some people watching.

Amazed by the number of people sporting farce muzzles, even filling up with fuel, most people were zombified.

The few that did not have masks on when filling their vehicle magickally produced muzzles before entering the payment area.

I despair, people think they are going to die.

Look at the numbers, you are very unlikely to get ill, even less change of dying.

107672 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dave #KBF, 12, #448 of 907 🔗

I know, crazoo. I was spying them in Morrisons last night. It’s almost muscle memory for them now. Walk to the front door, mask on, walk out mask off. The young maskless chap manning the till next to the one I was using closed it and then put a mask on to walk away. FFS how does the virus know when he is on the till or stacking shelves, sorry, silly me, It’s the clear perspex window at his till that was protecting him.

107697 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to stefarm, 4, #449 of 907 🔗

I was in Morrisons, late Friday evening, all traces of cv19 “protection measures” have now gone, little table at the entrance with goo, and barrel wipe is no more, but most shoppers are masked, I think I only noticed four not wearing a face covering.

Until recently the queue for the tills was controlled, no more, we are now back to the usual free for all, well we would have been if any of the tills had been open.

The mask or die message seems to be in enough people now that we can be allowed some of the old normal back.

107722 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #450 of 907 🔗

or these shops finally realised that all these measures kept customers away (first week of masks – 2 million less footfall in supermarkets)

107723 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #451 of 907 🔗

I’ve noticed this too which is progress although Thursday night had a bizarre conversation with another shopper at the checkout.

Mother and teenage daughter maskless at a till, hello I thought this is promising that’ll do for me so I started loading my shopping.

A woman jumped out of nowhere, mask pulled down hanging around her neck.

‘excuse me were next, we were queuing’

‘sorry, I don’t understand you weren’t standing behind these ladies’

‘i didn’t want to stand too close, my daughter and I were standing over there (nods her head about 20 foot behind me)’

‘sorry I still don’t understand, I apologise if I pushed in but the till was free, till 8 is empty it will be easier and quicker if you use that one’

‘no, I must use this one’

‘fair enough’ I went to till 8 packed and paid before the mother and daughter paid for their shopping, they did give me a knowing wink when we walked out.


108004 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #452 of 907 🔗

As I do not wear a face covering I try to keep distance. Difficult with all the facecovered people thinking they can squeeze in/past.

107708 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 8, #453 of 907 🔗

Bloody hell, I’ve got it!! We just carry a small piece of clear perspex in our pockets and we are protected. Hurrah!

107778 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #454 of 907 🔗

I filled up today, only person wearing a mask in the shop was the cashier and she wasn’t too happy about it.

No questions asked.

107792 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #455 of 907 🔗

farce muzzles

Not sure if that was deliberate or a typo, but it definitely made me smile!

107830 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Drawde927, 1, #456 of 907 🔗

At the other end, babies wear arce muzzles.

107674 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, 18, #457 of 907 🔗

I went to Wentworth Golf club to meet some members for dinner last night.
I was unprepared for their US style mask rules which required anyone moving around the inside of the building/club to wear a face nappy.
The front desk girl asked me if I had my own mask.
Totally unprepared I replied “I won’t wear a mask”
She was taken a back and asked “Oh do you have Asthma?”
In that moment I remembered that they don’t need to know why I could not wear a mask and I was not willing to pretend.

I’m sure my anger was on my face as I simply looked at her and said. “No.”
She was even more shocked and after handing my wife a mask she informed me I may have to tell the host at the restaurant why I wasn’t wearing a mask.
But by that point my back was up and didn’t care.

So I’ve still managed to stay muzzle free bar the MRI scan I had 2 months ago.

107694 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to A Meshiea, 13, #458 of 907 🔗

Well done on the muzzle free.

I feel really confident even in waitrose now. Bumped into a skeptic friend in local waitrose the other day and we were having a chat muzzle free. Laughing at how rebellious it was to talk without a face mask! Couldn’t believe we were saying it.

Also went into my husbands doctors to pick up a prescription on Friday. “Have you got a mask?” “No I’m exempt” “oh ok then”.

107707 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to A Meshiea, 5, #459 of 907 🔗

I was watching the latest Sean attwood interview with David icke this morning. Love him or loathe him he said we have to say NO, no violence, no arguments. Just say no.


107675 ianric, replying to ianric, 18, #460 of 907 🔗

Some questions

1) If coronavirus was such a dangerous disease why back in March even the BBC who like most of the MSM been pushing the fear porn narrative admit that 8/10 people will only get mild symptoms.


2) A clear sign of pandemic is that people would notice it without the media, the internet or the government with large numbers dying or at least suffering such severe symptoms they have to stay at home or need hospital care and local hospitals being overwhelmed. If we are in the middle of a deadly pandemic, why are there no visible signs and the things mentioned in my last sentence are absent. Why do I constantly read about people saying they don’t know of anyone with coronavirus. If we are in a pandemic, why is that without media hysteria and government lockdowns, no one would have noticed.

3) One justification for draconian lockdowns is that a disease is highly infectious. To the best of my knowledge the government has never presented any research evidence as to how exactly is coronavirus transmitted and what characteristics make the disease so contagious as to justify lockdowns. Why was this never done?

4) An issue I have with lockdowns is that healthy people with no symptoms have to endure lockdown rules. One possible justification is asymptomatic spreaders. Is there any conclusive evidence asymptomatic people can spread the disease? Is the notion of asymptomatic spread a myth because to me the idea is just too convenient for governments :-
·       If people were told only symptomatic people spread the disease people would have a clear idea who is infected. The idea of asymptomatic spreaders is an effective way of terrorising people as the idea is formed anyone can be carrying the disease.
·        If the idea only ill people with symptoms can spread the disease, lockdowns would be much harder to justify. Placing healthy people under house arrest would be difficult to justify if there was no possibility of them spreading the disease. Closing businesses would be difficult to justify if there was no possibility of healthy asymptomatic staff and customers spreading the disease. On the other hand, lockdowns which apply to everyone become much easier to justify if there is a possibility asymptomatic people can spread the disease.
·       Condemning healthy people for their behaviour and calling them covid idiots would not be possible to justify if there was no possibility of asymptomatic people spreading the disease.

On one hand we are told coronavirus is a deadly and dangerous disease and on the other we are told we develop no symptoms if we catch the virus. How is this blatant contradiction explained?

5) The justification for closing businesses was that staff and customers might spread the disease to each other. If this is the case, how do you explain what has happened in businesses which have remained open throughout lockdown? Supermarkets have remained open throughout the lockdown and staff have to deal with customers and handle goods which makes them vulnerable. To the best of my knowledge  there have been no cases of staff and customers dying or becoming severely ill. How do you explain this if a deadly and infectious disease is rampant? In view of what has happened in supermarkets, how can business closures be justified?

6) What was the logic in closing down some types of businesses? Bookshops, clothes and electrical shops are often very big and the customers are not spaced closely together which would make it difficult for a disease to spread. In hotels customers stay in their rooms and guest don’t mix together. What was the reason behind closing these businesses?

107686 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to ianric, 6, #461 of 907 🔗

Knodding away here to all questions. Send those to your MP.

As for your point on people not knowing anyone who has had it,never mind die, I am the same. Don’t know a soul.

Yet, I am told its out there and to be scared. The whole thing is complete nonsense.

107705 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to ianric, 7, #462 of 907 🔗

A clear sign of pandemic is that people would notice it without the media

Correct, masks or no masks I still haven’t encountered anyone in a supermarket or spoke to anyone who is currently sick, has been sick or looks remotely sick, no increased coughing, sneezing etc.

107742 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to ianric, 6, #463 of 907 🔗

There’s a lot that the health professional just can’t bring themselves to articulate. It is taboo.

When an elderly person with dementia dies with an infection (sepsis, pneumonia etc.) we don’t openly say “best thing for them”, but we know that’s true. We also decide not to treat them.

I think what actually happened is that Covid cut a swathe through the terminally ill in hospitals and care homes. This is what caused the panic. The media picture shows an active and articulate granny who is at risk, not a bedridden granny suffering from alzheimer’s, double incontinence, effects of a stroke and a bit of chronic heart disease.

108075 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ianric, 3, #464 of 907 🔗

Good questions.With regards to number 2, I clearly remember reading somewhere either here or on Twitter where someone lived next door to a cemetery and all throughout lockdown has not seen the cemetery swamped with funerals. In fact, it was almost empty.

You would have thought that if we were indeed in a pandemic then cemeteries all over the UK would have been chock a block with funerals and queues of hearses snaking leading to the cemetery.

107676 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 7, #465 of 907 🔗

Meanwhile in China….all seems normal and quiet.

How can that be???

Seems odd that China has nowhere near the cases elsewhere in the world.

107682 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to hotrod, #466 of 907 🔗

They treat and manage early cases with TCM. My TCM Doctor has given me such a lot of insight into what happened in Wuhan in the hospitals. The Western doctors over there eventually bought into it, then they quickly got it under control.

107688 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Country Mumkin, #467 of 907 🔗

TCM? And the reason TCM is not used anywhere else?

107718 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Country Mumkin, #468 of 907 🔗

What is TCM?

107729 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DressageRider, 5, #469 of 907 🔗

Turner Classic Movies. Channel 315 on Sky TV. They make patients watch this channel constantly and they recover in no time!

107730 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to JohnB, 1, #470 of 907 🔗

smiley face would be insrted here if I could do that from the laptop!

107734 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DressageRider, #471 of 907 🔗

Just type it with colon, dash, parenthesis, like this 🙂
Watch it not bloody work now!

107735 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, #472 of 907 🔗

Well, well.

107736 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sam Vimes, #473 of 907 🔗


107738 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to DressageRider, #474 of 907 🔗

ooh yes! Thanks

107741 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DressageRider, #475 of 907 🔗

Not sure if Turner Classic Movies has programmes about Traditional Chinese Medicine, by the way… 😉

107740 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to DressageRider, #476 of 907 🔗

Traditional Chinese Medicine.

107754 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #477 of 907 🔗

The large Wuhan hospital which was very westernised didn’t know how to handle/were overwhelmed with presentation of Covid patients and eventually under duress started working with TCM. There was one specific isolation hospital (covid patients got sent there with early symptoms) which only treated with TCM and outcome was excellent. The isolation hospitals were called Fangcang. I can’t remember the name of that particular one.

Apparently rest of China had a better outcome than Wuhan as they used a lot of TCM generally.

Whilst I do feel TCM helps me and I’m sure helped those patients in China (it works by boosting your natural immunity and balancing chi, it’s underlying belief /management system is v ancient and many think it’s woo woo), I’m not sure if it would help delving into it all, as China is so untrusted.

What it does say to me though, is that Wuhan did not see this coming. If it was an accidental leak from lab and cover up, that’s plausible or if other country involvement too, that’s also plausible.

107770 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #478 of 907 🔗

I’m not sure that this shows that TCM works (although boosting the immune system is always valuable), it is more likely to show that the standard approach of putting people on ventilators did more harm than good.

107785 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to TheBluePill, #479 of 907 🔗

Think that’s true. Although I’m not sure about the isolated hospital only treating with TCM. They did brilliantly. And also most of rest of China used more TCM. It’s empirical evidence in any case, so it’s of limited use.

108034 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Country Mumkin, #480 of 907 🔗

And doe’s ground up tiger penis help erectile disfunction? I guess i will never know…

107796 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #481 of 907 🔗

China are treating patients with high dose intravenous Vitamin C

Shanghai Government Officially Recommends Vitamin C for COVID-19

(OMNS Mar 3, 2020) The government of Shanghai, China has announced its official recommendation that COVID-19 should be treated with high amounts of intravenous vitamin C. (1) Dosage recommendations vary with severity of illness, from 50 to 200 milligrams per kilogram body weight per day to as much as 200 mg/kg/day.

These dosages are approximately 4,000 to 16,000 mg for an adult, administered by IV. This specific method of administration is important, says intravenous therapy expert Atsuo Yanagisawa, MD, PhD, because vitamin C’s effect is at least ten times more powerful by IV than if taken orally. Dr. Yanagisawa is president of the Tokyo-based Japanese College of Intravenous Therapy. He says, “Intravenous vitamin C is a safe, effective, and broad-spectrum antiviral.”

Richard Z. Cheng, MD, PhD, a Chinese-American specialist physician, has been working closely with medical and governmental authorities throughout China. He has been instrumental in facilitating at least three Chinese clinical IV vitamin C studies now underway. Dr. Cheng is presently in Shanghai continuing his efforts to encourage still more Chinese hospitals to implement vitamin C therapy incorporating high oral doses as well as C by IV.

Dr. Cheng and Dr. Yanagisawa both recommend oral vitamin C for prevention of COVID-19 infection.


107702 ▶▶ Biker, replying to hotrod, 2, #482 of 907 🔗

the chinese that died were eaten by the other chinese. Probably, or was it all the dogs they ate?

107753 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to hotrod, 4, #483 of 907 🔗

I’ve been asking this question as well. There is simply no way that China’s deaths per million are 3 and total deaths are half of Canada’s. What the hell is going on??? There was a pool party in Wuhan with thousands of unmasked people shoulder to shoulder and I’m still housebound because I won’t wear a mask? Why is nobody asking these questions? No matter how much control the government has, there’s no way a country of 1.3 billion people isn’t mixing and mingling and spreading the virus. And why weren’t there bodies in the streets of Shanghai, Beijing, and all over China when the pandemic was supposedly raging? They reached herd immunity with fewer than 5,000 deaths in a country of that size??? WTF?

107784 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #484 of 907 🔗

Worth taking a look at this article in the Spectator:


which perhaps gives some insight.

107678 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 3, #485 of 907 🔗

Track the helicopter watching the demo in London now:

107717 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Two-Six, #486 of 907 🔗

I wonder how much that is costing the tax payer!

107773 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, #487 of 907 🔗

Helicopter’s that small £850-1200 an hour.

107780 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #488 of 907 🔗

$1,954.80 per hour
Based on 450 annual owner-operated hours and $4.25- per -gallon fuel cost , the AIRBUS/EUROCOPTER EC 145 T2 has total variable costs of $519,268.50, total fixed costs of $360,391.50, and an annual budget of $879,660.00. This breaks down to $1,954.80 per hour .

107781 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #489 of 907 🔗

and to think it could be put to so much better use hunting out children’s birthday parties and other heinous back garden guideline breaches as per Manchester police usage

107789 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, #490 of 907 🔗

probably less than this as googling indicates that police helicopters average around 1000 hours a year. variable costs will increase proportionally but contribution to fixed costs will reduce . So probably $1400 an hour .. which is top end of Awkward Gits estimate

107809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mjr, #491 of 907 🔗

I was just going by what I have to use for daily costs accounting supply us for when we fly helicopters for work.

If we can save costs by keeping guys ons its farther than fly a chopper we do it. If the guys are expensive and cost more then we fly one.

A Super Puma 20 years ago cost us £ 2500 an hour plus a fixed monthly cost of about £35000 I remember.

107774 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, 1, #492 of 907 🔗

National Police Air Service, its gone back to base at North Weald airport . I think in a post some days ago it was mentioned that it costs about £800 an hour

107683 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #493 of 907 🔗

Oops bad link

107711 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Two-Six, 2, #494 of 907 🔗

Love him or loath him David Icke does speak some sense.

107685 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 2, #495 of 907 🔗

Does anyone have an age breakdown of the new French cases?

Death rates remain low and as does severity of cases so curious how different the age profile is now to what it was in let’s say April.

If the death rate is low then this assumes young people are catching Covid, but surely some young people were infected in in March and April too?

So why the high death rate then and low death rate now?

What has changed?

Could be a crucial measure to keep panic under control.

107691 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to hotrod, 6, #496 of 907 🔗

who cares… it’s all bullshit anyway…

107692 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Castendo, 4, #497 of 907 🔗

It’s BS that proves the original Lockdown BS was BS!

107703 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to OKUK, 1, #498 of 907 🔗

So why did cases drop? I am confused on the point you are making.

MSM are hanging on what happens in France as saving their narrative hence keen to understand more about what would have happened had there not been any lockdown.

107728 ▶▶▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to hotrod, 4, #499 of 907 🔗

Don’t hold your breath… they don’t need to save the narrative: They own the narrative…

107693 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Castendo, 1, #500 of 907 🔗


107698 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 19, #501 of 907 🔗

Muzzle free suggestion;

Can we try to go shopping in pairs (or more) with other muzzle-free friends? Talking and smiling at each other hopefully helps to model behaviour.

I’m not trying to get people’s backs up. I understand people are genuinely scared and it’s not their fault with the propaganda they’ve been surrounded by.

You won’t be able to reason with the zealots, but there will be others dabbling in skepticism.

Let’s help pull them through.

107701 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #502 of 907 🔗

I would love to do this if there is anyone in my locality

107783 ▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #503 of 907 🔗

Already on the case – it’s very liberating!

107994 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #504 of 907 🔗

My local butcher ahs a sign outside. “2 people at once” . As a joke I wanted to wait until a 2nd person wants to enter a shop, as I am just one at a time.

108070 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Silke David, #505 of 907 🔗

I wonder about pregnant women.
If a preggie counts as one person, you’re saying an unborn child is not a person.
If she counts as two people, she can’t enter the shop.

107699 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 9, #506 of 907 🔗

Johnson v Hancock

Do they get on or even talk to each other?

Johnson talking up return to office and his lap dog Shapps pandering to him yesterday saying that it’s safe to travel.

Meanwhile Hancock doom and gloom and new lockdowns today.

Aren’t those perspective conflicting?

107720 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to hotrod, 1, #507 of 907 🔗

Johnson can’t credibly argue the case for a return to normality because he was one of the tiny minority of people who were neither aged nor suffering from s serious health condition who have nearly died from the disease. He’s probably one out of a couple of hundred people in the country.

107725 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to OKUK, 7, #508 of 907 🔗

Thats if you think he did nearly die. I think it very unlikely he was at deaths door, simply because he was out of hospital so quickly.

107745 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DressageRider, 7, #509 of 907 🔗

At one time, I would have dismissed that kind of thinking, but after all this, I am happy to believe it was fake. “Look, even I had it, so everybody do as I say!”. Too easy.

107752 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #510 of 907 🔗

in plain sight

107765 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to DressageRider, 6, #511 of 907 🔗

I’d say he never had it.

A nervous breakdown perhaps but not any virus.

Suspect all the bullshit about 2 foreign nurses at his bedside 24 hours a day for a week.

Total bollocks.

107779 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #512 of 907 🔗

Ditto. A great bit of smoke and mirrors, softening up the plebs.

107806 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stefarm, 2, #513 of 907 🔗

And strangely enough none of the cabinet members died!

107854 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, 1, #514 of 907 🔗

Exactly – whilst at the same time getting his orders from the elites as to what to do next… hence why Raab made no real decisions while Johnson was away.

107801 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to DressageRider, 3, #515 of 907 🔗

Did you find it strange he rose off his death bed after 6 days which happened to be Easter Sunday. Was that a sort of subliminal message?

107805 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #516 of 907 🔗

It was certainly a very strange co-incidence!

107856 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #517 of 907 🔗

That was no coincidence!

107853 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DressageRider, 2, #518 of 907 🔗

Indeed, my landlady’s daughter, who works on the CV19 ward here in Sweden, said that most hospitalised people get a bit better after they are admitted, and then around day 10 is where they either get much better or get much worse, and can then end up in ICU. Most people are in ICU for several weeks – not just a few days like Johnson was…

107726 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to OKUK, 3, #519 of 907 🔗

Although I am beginning to wonder if it wasn’t a bit over-dramatised. A friend of similar age had pneumonia. He was not taken to hospital, even though people can die of it.

107737 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to OKUK, 4, #520 of 907 🔗

panic can multiply the dangers of breathing difficulties, lets face it, the Bozo clown is a creature of panic

107747 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to OKUK, 3, #521 of 907 🔗

Obesity for sure, probably high blood pressure as well.

107751 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Bruno, 1, #522 of 907 🔗

5’7”@17.5 stone

BMI 38.5

107750 ▶▶▶ PWL, replying to OKUK, 3, #523 of 907 🔗

Boris Johnson never nearly died, for Pete’s sake. When are people going to grow up in this country.

Boris Johnson’s big lie in, and lying; Part One
Boris Johnson’s big lie in, and lying; Part Two

107756 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to OKUK, 4, #524 of 907 🔗

stop lying about boris having covid, people think you are a 77th shill

107803 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to OKUK, 10, #525 of 907 🔗

He had the disease, and was struggling to shake it off at day 8/9, because he is careless, unfit and overweight. Suggest, however, on the basis of his gait, how he is clenching his left hand (see coverage from the VJ service at the Arboretum), and his inability to complete sentences, he had a stroke or has some other neurological condition. May have been brought on by the virus, but he was heading towards it anyway. Whatever, he is clearly not fit to govern and nor indeed is he governing. Handsy Hancock and fireplace salesman Williamson are out of their depth and out of control. The situation is dangerous.

108022 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #526 of 907 🔗

That’s a thought-provoking line of reasoning and a plausible one. Clearly, as the photos of him before he went into hospital demonstrate, he was seriously ill at that time.

Whatever it was or wasn’t, his face now has an odd twisted look, as if the musculature has changed. Something isn’t right. Maybe he’s just been frightened out of his wits. Or maybe it’s something else.

You last three sentences are scarily correct – he isn’t governing and is incapable of doing do. Maybe he never was. The vacuum is dangerous.

107915 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to OKUK, 3, #527 of 907 🔗

But he did have a comorbidity because of his weight. Obesity causes inflammation so the body is already coping with being inflamed then battling an infection on top.

107709 Victoria, 1, #528 of 907 🔗

Iceberg (plastic) of CV-19 deaths v adverse impact


107710 Ewan Duffy, 11, #529 of 907 🔗

Finally the sheeple in Ireland are waking up.Opposition to further curbs on freedoms up from 27pc to 38pc. Still not enough but heading in the right direction.


107724 Basics, replying to Basics, 19, #530 of 907 🔗

Berlin. Huge numbers are out. Huge.

Properly peaceful. Good spirit. Noticable how many nations flags are being flown. Wonderful.

107731 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Basics, 11, #531 of 907 🔗

Berlin we salute you x

107749 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 3, #532 of 907 🔗

They’ll probably disperse them on SD rules, but the feeling is clear, the point has been made. Go, Berlin!

107755 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 6, #533 of 907 🔗

So, by about September 14th, they will all be dead. Not.

107869 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Basics, #534 of 907 🔗

I’ve seen quite a few people being plucked out of the crowd by police, seemingly at random, and getting taken away. Does anyone know whether there’s any rhyme or reason… Or on what grounds they’re arresting entirely peaceful protestors?

107906 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #535 of 907 🔗

This was quite disturbing to see, did this also happen in the protests earlier this month?
It also looked like the police were forming a line in order to separate groups of people and/or keep them out of some areas.

The current live feed, from a different location, is a lot more cheering – a literal sea of people with no police in sight.

107912 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Drawde927, 3, #536 of 907 🔗

From what I gather the arrests are happening on a strasse the police claim should be open. I e not have people sitting on it. There there’s thousands of peaceful people standing and sitting on the street doesn’t matter.

This is the tactic to get the photographs needed to discredit the protest. The other side of the brandenberg gate are thousands more peaceful people.

Some of those arrested wanted to be others didn’t.

107917 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #537 of 907 🔗

Now we are in a market square of somekind off the road. This may be intelligence led targetting of individuals, ring leaders, at least that may be the supposed reason for arrest.

Again the protest have been properly peaceful. The only negative vibe has come with the stormtroopers.

107748 PWL, 4, #538 of 907 🔗

No children dead of Covid-19. Because they haven’t been on the poisonous medicine for most of their lives.

SARS-COV to ACE2 binding and the dangerous Covid-19 truth
(Keep an eye on Berlin).

107757 john ballard, replying to john ballard, 5, #539 of 907 🔗

I’m probably a bit behind the times as i think this was posted four days ago, Denise Welch on YouTube, wow great interview re. Covid and a mega sceptic. Nice someone with press attention shouting about the stupidity of this farce. Well worth a look if you haven’t already and you can share to fb.

107782 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to john ballard, 1, #540 of 907 🔗

Hi John

I listened to this on TalkRADIO

107760 SweetBabyCheeses, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 2, #541 of 907 🔗

Playing football is definitively more risky for children than covid. Must ban all football.

107769 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #542 of 907 🔗

Sounds good to me.

Last time I saw football George Best was playing for Hibs so ban it.

Yah boo humbug!

Isn’t that how social media works today?

107766 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #543 of 907 🔗

Might have been posted earlier, but the London protest continues – looks like a great turnout.


107768 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 4, #544 of 907 🔗

Strangely the camera just panned onto a group of police – all wearing masks when no-one else is. Why are they wearing masks outdoors?

107771 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Ozzie, 6, #545 of 907 🔗

For the propaganda shots! It will look a stark contrast of the responsible vs the irresponsible.

107776 ▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #546 of 907 🔗

Police taking sides again – surely not?

107817 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #547 of 907 🔗

opMore like the human and the inhuman.

107824 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Ozzie, 2, #548 of 907 🔗

Well I’ve just seen some people hassling them for no reason….maybe they’re worried about getting spat on or something? I think it’s a shame they are shouting at the police who are basically just standing there – doesn’t look good for the general anti-mask/lockdown movement – imo

107913 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Ozzie, #549 of 907 🔗

Because they can’t think for themselves.

107984 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ozzie, #550 of 907 🔗

Making a statement.

108001 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Ozzie, 3, #551 of 907 🔗

The police do not have to wear masks on duty. They are specifically exempt. Therefore the fact that they are wearing masks is completely a political statement to show that they support wearing masks

107772 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ozzie, 1, #552 of 907 🔗

35,000 attendees has been mentioned.

107777 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ozzie, 8, #553 of 907 🔗

Amazing that RT (Russia Today) will cover the event but not BBC.

107846 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #554 of 907 🔗

Yes, what’s that about? Nothing on BBC front page about the London protest, or even the Telegraph. Why do we have to go to Russia Today to see a major event going on in London:

107868 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #555 of 907 🔗

I’ve almost completely switched to a variety of “alt” news sites during this silliness, because the gaps in reporting from sites like the BBC, Guardian etc are so glaring.

Obviously the downside is I have to put up with a higher proportion of posts about 5g conspiracies but it’s worth it.

107996 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #556 of 907 🔗

Q,,, What is the difference between RT and the BBC
A . One is a state run propaganda outlet which hates the British public and disseminates lies and political views, whilst the other is a Russian TV station

108222 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to mjr, #557 of 907 🔗

That’s funny.

107787 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to Ozzie, #558 of 907 🔗

Thanks for link. It looks AMAZING!

107775 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 21, #559 of 907 🔗

Good on Jenny Harries for sticking to her view on masks. I had a feeling she wasn’t convinced.

107798 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #560 of 907 🔗

She originally said that masks were of no use way back in March and may actually be harmful. The article is here.


107799 ▶▶ Klein, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #561 of 907 🔗

Yeah I got the same idea too.

107790 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #563 of 907 🔗

This is a new website I discovered today. I watched an expose of Bill Gates and his vaccination agenda. I’m doubly sure I wont be having it!

107793 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #564 of 907 🔗

New platform started to avoid YouTube censoring or removing videos.

107794 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #565 of 907 🔗

Just spotted this on the BBC website – it is probably too much to hope for a change of stance as they are banging on about a resurgence in the winter, but at least it is starting to ask some of the questions.

“Coronavirus: Why are deaths falling as cases rise?” (Fergus Walsh)

107886 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Ozzie, #566 of 907 🔗

I was going to post about this, it takes the usual “second wave if we don’t all do as we’re told” line but the fact that they’re even discussing this sort of thing may be a step in the right direction. Though the critical line confirmed coronavirus cases have been rising for a couple of months, but this can be largely explained by increases in testing. is easy to miss!

Also, referring to cancer deaths – Neither of these figures is read out nightly on the TV news, unlike the statistics for cases and coronavirus deaths. On the one hand, it’s good that even the BBC are admitting stuff like this… on the other hand, the BBC were/are one of the main sources of this sort of “TV news” fearmongering!

I suspected this might happen – the media starting to U-turn on “project fear” whilst pretending they weren’t the ones responsible for it (or at the very least, enabling it) in the first place.

Along similar lines to the BBC article even the NY Times are questioning the effectiveness of PCR tests: https://t.co/rR4aBDK4Xl?amp=1

107965 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Drawde927, #567 of 907 🔗

I posted about this earlier today too.

107797 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #568 of 907 🔗
107804 ▶▶ watashi, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #569 of 907 🔗


107814 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #570 of 907 🔗

I put a suitable comment on their website. Please, everyone, do likewise.

107820 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 5, #571 of 907 🔗

AHH, the wonderful perspex – anti covid.

World has gone fucking mad, do people actually believe this shit.

107900 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to stefarm, 1, #572 of 907 🔗

Unfortunately yes. Far too many of them.

108223 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stefarm, #573 of 907 🔗

Yes they do.

107932 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #574 of 907 🔗

Good grief!

107807 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #575 of 907 🔗

How’s this for a headline (Daily Mail)

Thousands of cornavirus [sic] conspiracy theorists gather in London: Huge crowd of anti-vaxxers who say pandemic is a ‘New World Order’ HOAX join Jeremy Corbyn’s brother and David Icke in Trafalgar Square


LOL! it might help if the headline writer could spell.

107823 ▶▶ Klein, replying to Tenchy, 13, #576 of 907 🔗

The top comments are all sceptical. It looks like things have really turned now…

108143 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Klein, 1, #577 of 907 🔗

Just looked now. Trolls out in force.

107850 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 5, #578 of 907 🔗

If there’s not a NWO being created, why are health passports being introduced in Ireland?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U88ZKJhztiM&feature=youtu.be
Note the similarities with China..

108128 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #579 of 907 🔗

Why are the police corralled inside sheep pens?
comment image

108136 ▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Cheezilla, #580 of 907 🔗

That is the entrance to Downing Street

108141 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Badgerman, #581 of 907 🔗

Wolf pen then!

108224 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #582 of 907 🔗

They’re grazing.

108139 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #583 of 907 🔗

Having got to the end of all the brilliant photos, I found this threat rather worrying:

Meanwhile, Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood said ‘draconian action’ could be needed if the public do not stick to social distancing rules, hinting the Government could take stronger action than local lockdowns.

Ellwood is a leutenant colonel in the 77th Brigade.

107811 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #584 of 907 🔗

BBC say Berlin told to disperse, Youtube doesn’t seem to agree. A lot of police moving in in London.

107815 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #585 of 907 🔗

Lots of police in London hiding behind masks.

107825 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #586 of 907 🔗

I saw that. What bullshit. It was a patronising article from BBC.

107864 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #587 of 907 🔗

BBC are lying.

108121 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #588 of 907 🔗

The surprise is when they don’t.

107812 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 25, #589 of 907 🔗

Went for a walk this afternoon through the woods close to where we live. Called in at our local Tesco to get some wine, it’s on offer, for Mrs smileymiley. About 95% muzzled in store, very sad. Got to the till behind a lady loading a few things on the conveyor. She looked at me for a while, I smiled.
You’re a bit close she said. I was admittedly not 2m away, but no closer than 1.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to get too close to you, but it doesn’t matter.
Don’t you have to? she said
No, it’s only guidance & you don’t have to wear a mask
Don’t I?
So I told her about the exemptions, she didn’t know about them.
You don’t like wearing them do you?
Then you can refuse because of duress, nobody can challenge you or ask for evidence.
I don’t want to give it to anyone, that’s why I wear it.
Mrs smileymiley said if you had Covid19 you’re obviously asymptomatic & there is very little chance of you passing it on.
I told her where to look for the guidance on gov.uk & the easier to read Law or Fiction.
She paid for her shopping & asked me for the site again & said she would have a look.
I think she was quite relieved that I had talked about it in the first place.
Hopefully another sceptic in the making.

107834 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to smileymiley, 5, #590 of 907 🔗

Details on legal exemption for masks is all in one place, along with masks in the news and links to other sites.


Pass the website link on.

107849 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ozzie, 1, #591 of 907 🔗

However, the health passport has already arrived in Ireland – that was quick… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U88ZKJhztiM&feature=youtu.be
Just like the Chinese system…what a surprise (not)…

107898 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Carrie, 2, #592 of 907 🔗

Looks like it’s a private company flying a kite. I hope, and think likely, that the kite will come crashing down soon. There was a similar idea in the UK back in March or April; not heard anything about it since.

108035 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Tenchy, 1, #593 of 907 🔗

I hope you’re right and it is a private company. They stupidly left comments turned on for the video linked above. Hundreds of angry comments.

108045 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #594 of 907 🔗

It is a private company

107918 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to smileymiley, #595 of 907 🔗

Well done!

107819 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 10, #596 of 907 🔗

Hilarious reporting of the protests. Have a google. Theme is that protests are about “coronavirus is a hoax”.

BBC just led with a Jeremy Corbyn’s brother arrested and a picture of him looking like a mad professor.

So basically we are all mad, conspiracy theorist nutters!

107829 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #597 of 907 🔗

The police love to arrest him

107862 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #598 of 907 🔗

Give it a thought. If they bend this so far out of shape as to be unrecognisable – what else are they doing? Essentially msm create a false reality for people to exist within.

107919 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Country Mumkin, -2, #599 of 907 🔗

I’m not sure that’s unfair. This was not a protest about libertarian issues, or economic issues, or political cockup, it was organised by conspiracy theorists & the speakers were spouting no end of nonsense. I thnk if you’d taken a poll fewer than 50% were in tune with the speakers. I think we need our own forum & avoid getting mixed up with the tin foil hatters.

108042 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to NickR, 4, #600 of 907 🔗

You can’t separate them though. Where does mask wearing fit in? Why are we being forced to wear them? Is that a conspiracy or libertarian issue? I think it’s both.

108176 ▶▶▶ gina, replying to NickR, 3, #601 of 907 🔗

Okay then – you organise a rally/protest – I’ll help/come along. In the meantime…
The most satisfying thing about being there for me was simply to be in a crowd of people looking and behaving as per normal.
I did think Piers Corbyn’s invitation to hug the person next to you – and do it again with someone else – was clever and funny – more effective than any speech – a truly subversive moment.
Maybe it doesn’t really matter who organised this one – it didn’t matter to me that much that the speakers and the organisation were poor – apart from Dolores Cahill who’s obviously had a bit of practice at mass gatherings and Piers – who is eccentric and charming.To stand up and be counted felt good. To be able to say I did what I could to my grandchildren though it might not be much…I’m grateful that the tin foil hatters gave me an opportunity.
And we might not agree, but lots of people think we are tin foil hatters.

108183 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to gina, 1, #602 of 907 🔗

Thanks. I appreciate hearing about your experience of the day. I wasn’t able to get there but if I had I believe my thoughts would align with yours.

108225 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to NickR, 1, #603 of 907 🔗

Maybe the other 50% were just curious onlookers, or out for a stroll. Who cares what the BBC calls it.

108118 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Country Mumkin, -1, #604 of 907 🔗

Unfortunately, some of the protesters were saying that, which undermines the argument as it’s easy to refute.

107827 Klein, 9, #605 of 907 🔗

“No police officers injured in largely violent protests”

107828 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #606 of 907 🔗

This is the BBC bio of the “reporter” who is complaining on twitter on Simon Dolan’s twitter stream about the NHS employee whistleblower.

Total nobody specialising in “fake news” and “disinformation” for the BBC – one of the world’s biggest purveyors of fake news.


107832 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #607 of 907 🔗

Sent my rebuttal of the BBC Complaint’s department to him with this at the beginning:

“I saw some twitter of your’s today.

As you claim to know so much about covid-19, deal in disinformation and verify facts and your employer is one of the biggest generators of fake news in the world can you please answer the complaint below and questions in the open letter to Boris Johnson et al that has been ignored by every mainstream broadcaster and newspaper:”

Don’t expect an answer.

107836 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #608 of 907 🔗

The best information about France. Data very inconsistent sudden increase in hospitalizations/ ICU one day and next day fell back. At the same time enormous amount of discharges. One day doubling of death, next day back to previous figures. Complete disaster in data from the country of logic and reason.

107844 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to swedenborg, 3, #609 of 907 🔗

Collecting accurate hospital stats is very difficult and day to day comparisons are largely meaningless. The process is usually highly devolved and inconsistencies are rife. You can only look at long term trends

107855 ▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, 3, #610 of 907 🔗

Thanks for this Swedenborg.

I’m still very confused by the situation in France, bad/confusing daily data notwithstanding. They seem to have a consistently much, much higher level of bed occupancy than we do, with a roughly equivalent population size. I can’t think of an explanation.

107975 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 1, #611 of 907 🔗

They like beds?

107872 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to swedenborg, #612 of 907 🔗

Assuming it isn’t purely an “accounting artifact” or the result of increased tests, the situation sounds a bit like that in some parts of the US (Florida, Arizona) after they relaxed lockdown.

Are there areas of France where the virus hadn’t spread much pre-lockdown (this was/is certainly the case in Italy and Spain) and is the increase in cases there rather than in Paris or other previous hotspots?

107839 helen, 2, #613 of 907 🔗
107842 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 5, #614 of 907 🔗

I found the link to the latest Quebec propaganda poster campaign. They found 4 brainwashed Hip Hop artists and asked them to do a presentation. With our money.


107847 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to richard riewer, 16, #615 of 907 🔗

Makes my blood boil. I tried reaching out to our taxpayer-funded medical officer of health for our county and I might as well have banged my head against the wall. We have had zero deaths and have zero cases and yet he extended the mask mandate. I asked how far below zero we had to get in order to at least revert back to voluntary mask use and I got a bunch of gibberish that amounted to, “I’m just following orders” (CDC, WHO, etc.). He considers the science settled. What a twat.

108227 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #616 of 907 🔗

I just saw the same posters on another wall surrounding a building site yesterday. Allagainstone. Who is one? Covid? Skeptics? In French it’s touscontreun. Reminds me of The Three Musketeers motto.

107860 ▶▶ Basics, replying to richard riewer, 1, #617 of 907 🔗

Influencers. Art is a different thing.

107845 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 1, #618 of 907 🔗

Here are top 5 of the week for socially responsible ads. PHE came in 3rd, Quebec Hip Hop garbage finished 4th. Who are these people?

107867 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to richard riewer, 15, #619 of 907 🔗

Have you seen the double-speak Vistaprint advert running on TV at the moment?

“This is not a mask” is the strap line throughout whilst showing people in a variety of, you guessed it, masks. What the actual fuck?

On this basis, we could run some opposing ads. How about a strap line of “This is a pandemic” whilst showing empty wards in hospitals, or maybe “This is UK democracy” whilst running pictures from the empty chamber in the commons?

107909 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Howie59, 7, #620 of 907 🔗

The funny bit is the small print at the end of the add telling you their masks are absolutely fucking useless at protecting you from anything.

108229 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jaguarpig, #621 of 907 🔗

That’s to protect them from any potential lawsuits from disappointed, gullible customers.

107957 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Howie59, #622 of 907 🔗


this is not a jockstrap

108053 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Howie59, #623 of 907 🔗

Those masks are freedom don’t you know? They also let us show our solidarity to each other!

108232 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, #624 of 907 🔗

That’s exactly what the new Quebec Government taxpayer subsidized poster says. A face of Solidarity. The three others say respect, conviction and courage. That’s Nazi/Stalinist/EastBerlin/CCCP style propaganda. And the people are so grateful to our Premier for protecting us. Yikes! Montreal used to be a hip city, now it’s almost dead.

108228 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Howie59, #625 of 907 🔗

Yes I have seen it. It’s a fashion statement, I guess. Anything to make money. Vultures.

107937 ▶▶ anon, replying to richard riewer, #626 of 907 🔗

test post

107974 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to anon, #627 of 907 🔗

<IMG href=”https://files.catbox.moe/pp4g4o”/>

this not a jockstrap

107979 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to anon, #628 of 907 🔗

oh I give up..

108112 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to anon, #629 of 907 🔗

Been there, done that, got a selection of tee shirts.

107851 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #630 of 907 🔗

Check out the crowds in Berlin. Impressive stuff.


Don’t have instagram…any other way to see the pictures?

107916 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Klein, #632 of 907 🔗

I’m not on instagram but the link opened up straight away on my laptop. A big crowd there!

107936 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cheezilla, #633 of 907 🔗

are you logged into something? fb maybe?

I can’t see it without logging in

would you be able to upload a copy to catbox.moe and post here?

107938 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cheezilla, #634 of 907 🔗

are you logged into something? fb maybe?

I can’t see it without logging in

would you be able to upload a copy to catbox.moe and post here?

107995 ▶▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to anon, 3, #635 of 907 🔗

Here you go
comment image

108032 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #636 of 907 🔗



108237 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to anon, #637 of 907 🔗

No social distancing there.

108106 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #638 of 907 🔗

Thanks, saved me finding out how to do the catbox thing!

108171 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #639 of 907 🔗

Wow! A few more than reported

107852 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 39, #640 of 907 🔗

Just been watching the protest in London.
I love this placard:
”Covid cure.
Strict 90 day no TV diet”

107863 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Margaret, 5, #641 of 907 🔗

I might put that on my front door.

108101 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 3, #642 of 907 🔗

That should be included in a 12 step Covid recovery programme.

107857 Biker, replying to Biker, 22, #643 of 907 🔗

nice demo, it always helps when there is something to protest about unlike the BLM people who have nothing whatsoever to protest and sicken me with their lies of racism.

107859 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Biker, 4, #644 of 907 🔗


107895 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 4, #645 of 907 🔗

I went past a Gypsy site earlier, they had a huge banner up saying “Gypsy lives matter, end racism now!”

107903 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 4, #646 of 907 🔗

They have two good points

108050 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #647 of 907 🔗

Yeah, just a shame they have white privilege.

108233 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, #648 of 907 🔗

Anybody here see the film Latchmo Drom?

107904 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to JohnB, #649 of 907 🔗

But not coppers

107923 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 1, #650 of 907 🔗

Is that the one at Blackbrook by the Swan with 2 Necks that has just been refused planning permission a 2nd time on about 8 grounds?

They just keep breaking the planning alls then us the discrimination card to ignore it.

108052 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #651 of 907 🔗

Yes, that’s the one. Can’t remember the place being there last year when I went past.

107861 Badgerman, replying to Badgerman, 60, #652 of 907 🔗

Just left my first ever demo at age 55. Official number claimed is 35 000. I am told BBC reporting “hundreds”. Entirely relaxed violence free gathering of all types of people and their children. ” We are the people of England……….” The time has come to speak.

107865 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Badgerman, 25, #653 of 907 🔗

Guardian is reporting “thousands”, reasonably even-handed commentary:

Quoted Piers Corbyn:

In terms of whether you believe that the virus is a hoax or not, whatever is happening now is less than or equal to a normal flu, so the lockdowns and all that goes with them is unjustifiable in any terms

107876 ▶▶▶ Klein, replying to zacaway, 11, #654 of 907 🔗

What the hell? Thats way more even handed than I ever expected from the Guardian. What is going on haha

107880 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Klein, 5, #655 of 907 🔗

Yep, pleasant surprise. Of course, no surprise that the BBC/Pravda has completely ignored it:

108116 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Klein, #656 of 907 🔗

The Corbin connection may have helped. I’ve seen him on tv and he is an interesting speaker.

107881 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to zacaway, 2, #657 of 907 🔗

Looks like a new tactic. Use the headline to to discredit anybody there but claim they downplayed it in reporting the numbers.

107893 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to zacaway, 2, #658 of 907 🔗

Gosh that is quite reasonable from the Guardian!

107879 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Badgerman, 22, #659 of 907 🔗

Beat that! Back in the ***** hotel after MY first demo aged 71. Concur. I’d say 10-15,000. Too many weirdos and narcissists for my liking, but they’d turn out anyway for whatever. The crowd was relaxed and determined. The shambolic organisation was good rather than bad. Showed it was real people unused to this kind of thing rather than the lot on Monday who will come marshalled like the Brownshirt SA.

107952 ▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to James Leary #KBF, 17, #660 of 907 🔗

Well done James. Sitting, unmasked, on the train reflecting on the days’ events. The organisation wasn’t slick but I agree that that was no bad thing. I felt that the crowd was very restrained and British – difficult to get revved up. Parts were a bit like a revival meeting I thought.

I suspect the boys and girls in blue were a bit frustrated that this actually was a peaceful demonstration. I got told off for patting one of the police horses though – hilarious!!

An eclectic crowd without doubt. Spoke to a middle aged lady on Whitehall who asked if we were at the Houses of Parliament. Explained that we were actually at the gates to Downing Street. She then said that she had never been to London before so another first for today. Absolutely lovely lady and I thought it was great that she had made the journey.

Certainly a few oddballs too though!!

107987 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Badgerman, 2, #661 of 907 🔗

Patting is verboten! Nice one.

107989 ▶▶▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Basics, 5, #662 of 907 🔗

She wouldn’t tell me why though but the horse was not wearing a face covering………..I hope she was grateful that she was still atop the beast unlike her unfortunate colleague at that “peaceful” protest a few weeks ago.

108008 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Badgerman, 1, #663 of 907 🔗

The cheek! They very dastardly cheek! Ask why?! Why! How dare you care to know why!?

Brilliant. Why, the most angrying of the five questions and a special place in my heart because of it. Lovely to see it put to good use!

108041 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Basics, #664 of 907 🔗

Cheers. She did have a face like the proverbial bulldog…..Perhaps it had been a long shift!!

108076 ▶▶▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Basics, #665 of 907 🔗


108048 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Badgerman, -1, #666 of 907 🔗

what you should have done after being told off for patting a horse is what a mate of mine once did at a football match (whilst the police on horses were directing them with charm and good manners. He nicked the mustard squeezer from a hot dog stand and squeezed it up the horses arse. Cue jollity on all sides

108065 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to mjr, #667 of 907 🔗

Don’t like that.

108068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Lucky, #668 of 907 🔗

Also, while I’m at it..police horses are there to do a job and not for being patted, just as guide dogs should not be patted.

108073 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Lucky, #669 of 907 🔗

It was just a very fine horse standing at ease. Deserved a pat. We need the police on our side.

108089 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Badgerman, 1, #670 of 907 🔗

ok. If you’re not being ironic, I appreciate your appreciation of a very fine horse, though my comment stands. I do wonder why you suspect the “ boys and girls in blue were a bit frustrated that this actually was a peaceful demonstration. ” I’d have thought they’d be relieved. From what I saw on livestream they did a good job.

108100 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lucky, 1, #671 of 907 🔗

Dickhead was probably disappointed though.

108111 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #672 of 907 🔗

That’s another matter. She was not in the street.

108149 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Badgerman, #673 of 907 🔗

No we don’t. Evil organisations need boundaries, not love.

108189 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Lucky, #674 of 907 🔗

Yes I do agree. Appreciate Badgerman’s sentiment today, but I can see why the Officer did not want the horse patted – some time ago I worked with a variety of students with disabilities, some of them had guide dogs, or therapy dogs, and guidance was to verbally request [to the student, or owner of the dog] before touching, or patting. The issue isn’t necessarily the animal would have a problem with being touched, but in the past some people had experienced issues & trauma with people thinking they were to play, grabbing them inappropriately, or something that caused problems or unnecessary distress.

108226 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Not Tiger Woods, #675 of 907 🔗

Thanks for your comment.

109513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lucky, #676 of 907 🔗

Some folk just have no sense of humour.

108234 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Badgerman, 1, #677 of 907 🔗

Walk down Hollywood Boulevard any day of the week. Oddball Central.

107908 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Badgerman, 3, #678 of 907 🔗

I was there, no way 35,000. Trafalgar Square is about 100m X 100m. So 10,000 m2. It wasn’t packed, loads of space round the edge. Try & get 3 people per m2, no way. Similar crowd to a 3rd division football game.

107958 ▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to NickR, 3, #679 of 907 🔗

As I said, claimed. I am no expert at estimating such things. Have been able to read the Guardian report now and agree it is uncharacteristically even handed. Glad I went. An interesting day.

107980 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Badgerman, #680 of 907 🔗

Organisers have not watched Berlin from 1st Aug. Now those organisers were justified to say there were more than – latest official numbers – 30k. The little footage in managed to see on FB it does not look like there were 35k in London.

107986 ▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to Silke David, 1, #681 of 907 🔗

As said below just reporting what was claimed. It may be that the organisers over estimated unlike a third division football club who would be more inclined to lose a few……..what is not in doubt is that the attendance was orders of magnitude greater than Piers Corbyn’s first gathering.

107866 Dave #KBF, 35, #682 of 907 🔗

Here you go from the London demo, says it all.

107870 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #683 of 907 🔗

Tuning into the protest coverage on Twitter (I’m on hols) – the conversation is overwhelmingly negative. “Idiots, hope they die of COVID” etc. Not pleasant.

107877 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, 19, #684 of 907 🔗

So everyone there today (well done to those who went 👊 ) should die in 2 weeks time.

Anybody fancy betting they are still alive and kicking in a fortnight.

107891 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to stefarm, 5, #685 of 907 🔗

Horrid individuals who post that shit. One with a rainbow in her Twitter handle as she’s clearly all about inclusion.

Edit – yes, well done to all attendees.

107933 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #686 of 907 🔗

Yeah, inclusion when it suits them. I don’t want to be included in their shit.

107969 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Tom Blackburn, #687 of 907 🔗

I find it very difficult these days if people displaying a rainbow are NHS supporters or LGBTQ supporters. I prefer the latter.

107920 ▶▶▶ Arkleston, replying to stefarm, 10, #688 of 907 🔗

I cannot understand the cognitive dissonance displayed by people who believe the propaganda. Their immune systems have kept them alive in countless crowd situations up to the moment this agenda started: it protected them in classrooms, lecture halls, stadiums, food courts, auditoriums, at festivals, conferences, New Years celebrations, pubs, list is endless. But all of a sudden evolved immunity is missing in action, and certainly not referred to.

None of the celebrities packed in at the February 2020 Oscars have died of the virus, though we know one couple who claim they had it (and recovered, of course).

I will take that bet 🙂

108010 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Arkleston, 2, #689 of 907 🔗

Would that be the couple that accidentally let it slip they took hydroxychloroquine? That’s only recommended for Hollywood celebs & Democrats. Everyone else: you will die if you take it!

108060 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Arkleston, 2, #690 of 907 🔗

“all of a sudden evolved immunity is missing in action, and certainly not referred to.” Well said. Cognitive dissonance abounds..

108015 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to stefarm, 4, #691 of 907 🔗

I’m counting down the hours already. Still could be worse – you only get 7 days with ‘The Ring’

107940 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #692 of 907 🔗

Here’s a twitter thread that at least statts off encouraging – someone called teapot declaring they are setting off to the protest. Perhaps a more positive day.


108012 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #693 of 907 🔗

Hateful venom like that is one of the reasons I deleted a (barely used) Twitter account a few weeks back.

108064 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #694 of 907 🔗

What do you expect from Twitter, the zombies’ favourite cesspit?

108238 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tom Blackburn, #695 of 907 🔗

Twitter’s for twits and people with a limited vocabulary.

107878 NickR, replying to NickR, 22, #696 of 907 🔗

Just returning from Trafalgar Square. I would guess about 5,000 people. I suppose in fairness we were gatecrashing someone else’s party, we certainly had some odd fellow travelers! I would guess a 50/50 split between the anti-vaccers & conspiracy crowd & the libertarian, economic madness, political balls up mob.
A mixed bag of speakers, actually Piers Corbyn was about the best. We finally gave up when a surgeon, who I thought would be interesting turned out to be the world’s worst public speaker. There were threats that David Eyke was gonna speak, we left. Still all very interesting.
There was a helicopter flying overhead for a lot of the time.
Still, good lunch & some funny placards.

107890 ▶▶ wendy, replying to NickR, 7, #697 of 907 🔗

Well done for going, I will look forward to the Manchester one. Perhaps it doesn’t matter if it’s a mixed bag at least people are making a stand

107892 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wendy, 12, #698 of 907 🔗

Could the Manchester one be the bigger event? Londoners appear to me to be hands-down the most supine lockdown zealots in the country.

107899 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Tom Blackburn, 15, #699 of 907 🔗

Train down, packed carriage only 3 masks. I’d say 50/50 on the street in London. No hassle for non-maskers. Jumping in the road to avoid you seems to have ended. I think a lot of people have just moved on.

107930 ▶▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #700 of 907 🔗

When’s the Manchester one?

108091 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to EllGee, 1, #701 of 907 🔗

I can’t find anything about it. If there is one, it needs more promoting!

107896 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to NickR, #702 of 907 🔗

Were there any masked muttons hanging about?

107901 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to richard riewer, 5, #703 of 907 🔗

I saw 2 mask wearers, one was the subject of a good natured chant & the other took his off. The whole thing was friendly. Oddly a lot of the anti-vaccers also seem to be against kids going back to school, I don’t understand that! So, as I say, a mixed bag.

107931 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 7, #704 of 907 🔗

The David Icke fans/5G obsessives/blanket anti-vaxxers etc. are a bit of a problem, in so far as hanging hats on this as a peg for obsessions and hobby-horses dilutes the core message and puts off more people than it recruits.

107981 ▶▶▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to RickH, 6, #705 of 907 🔗

I agree that is the main problem. I thought David Icke spoke well but the lizard people theory will always be there to be thrown at him.

I don’t get the 5G thing at all I’m afraid. Need to do some independent research on that.

As to vaccines I am not anti per se – my daughter is 21 now so she had her jabs at the time of the MMR issue being brought up. It was a tough call but on balance we thought it was the right thing to do.

The crux of the day and the reason I attended was the civil liberties aspect and the Coronavirus Act which in my view is an emergency powers act hiding behind health “issues” and the scandalous abuse of SIs to make things up at the governments whim.

108019 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Badgerman, 9, #706 of 907 🔗

As a Chartered Engineer in electronics and a long time radio amateur with experience of RF fields I can say categorically there is no foundation whatsover to all these 5G claims. They should form no part of anti-lockdown protests as they only weaken our case.

108023 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to davews, 2, #707 of 907 🔗

I agree…pretty much…I know a bit about radio too.

108028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Two-Six, 1, #708 of 907 🔗

Glad the protest went well. As I said earlier we had rail bus replacements on our line today which would have made it a bit awkward. Then it turned out there was a signalling problem outside Reading which led to the trains delayed and cancelled as well which certainly wouldn’t have helped.

108037 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to davews, #709 of 907 🔗

Thanks for that.

108095 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to davews, #710 of 907 🔗

They weaken our lockdown case at the moment but they are an important part of the surveillance agenda, so must not be dismissed.
They are busy installing the cables in my area at the moment, so by the time they lift lockdown, it might be too late to protest. Tricky.

108030 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to RickH, 10, #711 of 907 🔗

I’m not a fan of Icke but he has been proven right about all this. Exemplified for me in the mask fiasco. Thing on the wane: more mandatory mask orders. Everywhere in France now. Coming to a cinema near you soon. They are a health hazard and goverment are forcing you to damage your health. Right on Icke’s message. They are enslaving us.

107973 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 1, #712 of 907 🔗

Masked muttons – good one!

108239 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #713 of 907 🔗

Thanks. I love that sheeple bedwetters logo. I want one. Send a few boxes of them to Parliament. I would also like to see someone put it on the face of Big Ben.

107897 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to NickR, 5, #714 of 907 🔗

The organizers should have invited the Gilets Jaunes to cross the channel and join in the fray.

108097 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richard riewer, #715 of 907 🔗

I think there were protests in Paris today too.

107911 ▶▶ Alice, replying to NickR, 10, #716 of 907 🔗

I was there till about 2 p.m – I agree with your assessment of the situation, especially about Pierce Corbyn and “the worst public speaker”. I spoke to several people (all very friendly). There were some followers of David Icke, but others said they came to stand for freedom, just like me.

The 5G idea puts many people off, quite understandably. But I respect the Stand Up X group for their perseverance in organising the protests.

108024 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to NickR, 2, #717 of 907 🔗

You should have stayed for Dolores Cahill and David Icke, they got a terrific reception from the crowd and were both excellent speakers, lots of Cahill groupies (though I don’t agree with Icke’s conspiracy theories, and Prof Cahill slightly spun the figures using the early March deaths as a metric, I have to agree with Taleb on the wisdom of using snapshots in a Black Swan event).

Piers Corbyn was an excellent, fluent speaker, thank goodness it was his brother heading the Labour Party at the last election!

107883 richard riewer, 4, #718 of 907 🔗

This might become the BLM/Woke/Cancel Culture change to the lyrics to Land of Hope & Glory:
Land of hate and racists …

All these groups are an integral part of the Lockdown.

107885 Basics, 32, #719 of 907 🔗

Police in Berlin having a go at arresting the peaceful demonstrators one by one. There must be hundreds of thousands, but of course each arrest is the front page splash to discredit the reasoned demonstration. Thankfully the numbers are too big, Germany is winning against the globalists.

To add the police showing no fear of the virus as the gang up on the men and women. Giant game of let’s pretend.

107888 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 10, #720 of 907 🔗

Another trip to Morrisons (think I might have an addiction to maskless shopping) today, picked up a packet if masks at the till.

On the back – not to be used as PPE 🤔 🤭

107943 ▶▶ mjr, replying to stefarm, 3, #721 of 907 🔗

which is what those nauseating adverts from vistaprint featuring masked toddlers also state at the end.
Makes you think what morons buy them when they watch an advert that tells them to “buy our masks to make everyone safe and tell them you love them but be aware these masks are useless”

107972 ▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 5, #722 of 907 🔗

They all say that.
The hand gunk we are forced to offer at our tourist attraction claims to be ‘refreshing’. Not a word about ‘sanitising’ anything. But the grockles wallow in it anyway.
Not knowing that it’s 50% water because I water it down, heh heh.

107924 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 15, #724 of 907 🔗

Just seen this note on twitter
Also note that Oxford, Mr Peter Hitchens home town, is on alert for a possible lockdown prompting a lot of twitter comments including challenges to using test results to determine lock-downs.
I just wonder if the skids are starting to get under the Test/Trace system as a justification for lockdown actions? Nothing intrinsically wrong with PCR testing, it is a great diagnostic tool but it is totally unsuited to being used to determine major public health policy. Maybe the penny is starting to drop? Currently all this lockdown, mask wearing nonsense is entirely dependent on the misuse of test results, if that approach starts to be undermined the whole house of cards might just start to tumble? We live in hope.

107982 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #725 of 907 🔗

Carl Heneghan has written about not using the tests to determine lockdown. A very good article in the Guardian or linked on his twitter feed.

107925 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #726 of 907 🔗

Just had the misfortune of going into the sitting room and wife has ITV news on.

Ye gods what a piece of crap but caught the end of Handjob’s interview.

The interviewer did sort of hold him to account and he was on the defensive but still full of shit and should have been pushed a lot further as he was getting pissed off.

Strange though, looked a funny red colour like he’d been sunburned so where has he been hanging out?

107935 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #727 of 907 🔗

Apparently he went on holiday in Cornwall – at least that is the on-message explanation of the sunburn

107947 ▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to zacaway, 10, #728 of 907 🔗

Ha… my daughter has just come back from 2 weeks in Cornwall , it pissed down for most of it …no tans there

107927 Basics, replying to Basics, 18, #729 of 907 🔗

One to boycott

“Furious mum claims camping shop staff asked for proof her daughter is deaf when told to wear a mask
Those who are deaf are exempt from wearing a covering because they need to lip read to communicate.”


I always found Cotswold outdoor to be very expensive compated to other shops.

107950 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Basics, 11, #730 of 907 🔗

One of the difficulties is that with this facemask nonsense, if challenged, you need to be able to make a good counter argument and not everyone is good at doing this. Some people wear a mask because they know they are not very good or confident at defending themselves if challenged. I have my arguments well rehearsed but given that after 5 months of lockdown nonsense I have the demeanor of a psychopathic serial killer out on special licence so far nobody has challenged me, they just seem relieved when I have gone!

It is appalling that the authorities and organisations have put the policing of this in the hands of the ordinary shop floor staff who are not trained or equipped to handle this properly.

107960 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Steve Martindale, 15, #731 of 907 🔗

The thing is, they haven’t. Shop staff have been specifically told not to challenge those without masks and to leave it to the police. It sounds like a member of staff in Cotswold is a Karen or a Ken and the manager needs to have a quiet word with them (or their superior does, anyway). It is however true that any shop or store can refuse entry to anyone they want for any reason, in which case you just walk away.

Only the police can enforce the mask mandate and, if you are challenged by an officer, you only have to tell them you are exempt, not why. You do not need any counter-argument and it is actually against the law (or the ‘guidelines’) for anyone else – shop staff or member of the public – to challenge you on this.

That is why Cressida Dick’s (Met Chief Constable) comments on radio where she exhorted people to shame non-mask wearers were so egregious – she was inciting people to break the law. MW

107970 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #732 of 907 🔗

GWR train staff appear to have been asked to enforce it by GWR, the train staff tell anyone not wearing a mask to get the mask on and wear it properly, unless, like I do, you wave an exemption card and they just smile and walk on by.

107983 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #733 of 907 🔗

That’s GWR’s own policy then. They are not obliged to do it by law. I’m surprised to hear this because the RMT union was adamant that they didn’t want their members policing masks and that enforcement should (correctly) be left to British Transport Police. Maybe they go in for particularly zealous staff on GWR! MW

108040 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Martindale, #734 of 907 🔗

Transport rules might be different from shops.

108080 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #735 of 907 🔗

They’re not. However, it is a condition of carriage in addition to being legislation, so it’s contract law as well. That doesn’t make it any less subject to anti-discrimination legislation, however.

108009 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #736 of 907 🔗

Dick should be behind bars

108062 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jaguarpig, #737 of 907 🔗

Yes, the wicked old harridan.

108011 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #738 of 907 🔗

That Cressida is from a long line of Dicks’. 🙂

107961 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Steve Martindale, 13, #739 of 907 🔗

I’ve always considered the “Severe Distress” get out the easiest get out. Who can prove it without risking causing you severe distress which is obviously illegal. Though to be fair, the thought that people might think I actually believe all of this nonsense DOES cause me severe distress!

108063 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to leggy, 7, #740 of 907 🔗

Well, it causes me severe distress just looking at faceless zombies.

107966 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 4, #741 of 907 🔗

So the deaf person doesn’t have to be nappied because the deaf person needs to read other people’s lips?

108084 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #742 of 907 🔗

Another “guidelines” anomaly!

108240 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #743 of 907 🔗

What happened to sign language?

108039 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #744 of 907 🔗

She could sue.

108046 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #745 of 907 🔗

she should sue

108117 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #746 of 907 🔗

Indeed. Yet again another one with a death wish which we should all grant by voting with our feet and wallets.

107928 Drawde927, 8, #747 of 907 🔗

This is an interesting (US-focused) article on how to reconcile sane, mask-free school reopening with the fears of vulnerable individuals : https://rationalground.com/using-the-bubble-isolate-concept-to-reopen-schools-without-universal-masking/

However, the article is focused on practical ways to reduce the risk to genuinely vulnerable (immunucompromised) people, it seems to me the biggest problem (surely in the US too) is the large number of parents and others with a massively exaggerated fear of the risk to children and/or the risk of children increasing spread in the wider community.

107929 swedenborg, 13, #748 of 907 🔗

The best update from Spain 28Aug.Many new cases. In fact almost as high as in March/Apil. They now include asymptomatic cases which they did not in March/April.96,5% mild or asymptomatic 3.5% hospitalized.> 60 years 17% of cases but 93 % of all deaths. Not a single death in a school age child since May. CFR all ages 0.4% but <60 0.03 %.But stable deaths about 15 -20 days per day but in Aragon higher deaths. Second wave should see an increase in deaths but not so far except Aragon.This is the first wave typical after lockdown has been lifted, the virus affecting previous not so affected regions or pockets of territory.Very instructive graphs also from other European country (read in the linkedin link above if you go into drop box I only find the data from 20th Aug)

107934 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #749 of 907 🔗

There’s a new film called Plandemic. The film is said to be excellent. However, Twitter warn you that by watching it there may be real world harms. Twitter writes:

“Warning: this link may be unsafe

The link you are trying to access has been identified by Twitter or our partners as being potentially spammy or unsafe, in accordance with Twitter’s URL Policy. This link could fall into any of the categories below:

• malicious links that could steal personal information or harm electronic devices
• spammy links that mislead people or disrupt their experience
• violent or misleading content that could lead to real-world harm
certain categories of content that, if posted directly on Twitter, are a violation of the Twitter Rules”

So I won’t share the link but will leave the warning for others to see and judge for themselves.

107942 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Basics, 14, #750 of 907 🔗

The real “harm” in watching the film is that the sheeple might wake up. I’ve watched it and am still alive to tell the tale. No “real-world harm” has come to me, unless you count the dystopian nature of my existence and that civil liberties have been suspended indefinitely. Other than that, everything if fucking great!

107953 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #751 of 907 🔗

Thank goodness you survived, without being warned first too.

I wondered who Twitter’s partners are and what collabouration are they partnering in. Our little local authorities are fond of the same phrase ‘our partners’. It is guaranteed to get up their nose to ask who are your partners? Even the fire service ‘will share your details with our partners’… modern life.

108017 ▶▶▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Basics, 2, #752 of 907 🔗

Who are their partners – literally anybody who wants to know, is my reckoning. Like Experian credit reference agency, they did this a few years ago, kindly shared some data with some of their premier partners. Turns out one of said partners was uncovered as Vietnam’s answer to La Cosa Nostra.

107991 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Basics, 9, #753 of 907 🔗

Is the harm from following this link asymptomatic?

108061 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Recusant, 1, #754 of 907 🔗


107944 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 15, #755 of 907 🔗

Ireland has not had a registered Covid death for a week now.

“Cases” however, are rocketing. They are more than twelve times higher than what they were seven weeks ago.

When 200 cases were registered about a fortnight ago it got quite some coverage in the Irish media. Will this milestone of a week going by without a single death being registered since mid March have the same coverage?

I heard some discussion of this disjunction twixt deaths and cases on Radio 4 just now. One explanation is that the ‘vulnerable’ are keeping themselves indoors! I’ve wondered that.

Listening to the discussion there almost seemed to be a wish, hope, it all will get worse again. This doomful prospect relies wholly it seems on the rise in ‘cases’. That there isn’t a rise in mortality figures is something of a inconvenience.

I’d be a bit cautious in expressing my lack of faith in the experts – but Ireland’s rise in ‘cases’ should be effecting mortality figures by now – but they ain’t – mortality figures indeed seem to be on the slide ! ! ?

I’ve obtained my information on deaths and cases in the Republic from this webpage


107949 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ned of the Hills, 11, #756 of 907 🔗

They will find ‘cases’ galore as long as they keep testing. Deaths are down because the ‘cases’ are asymptomatic or very mild and the test is unreliable. I would be surprised if there are very many ‘vulnerable’ self-shielding any more; there may be a few but it’s highly unlikely there would be enough of them to make any real impact on the figures. MW

108051 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #757 of 907 🔗

I’m not so sure the the vulnerable aren’t manically keeping themselves hid. A chum of mine would be picking me up at a railway station tomorrow – but can’t. Someone is staying with him for a few days who’s husband is 89. She’s afeared I’ll return with the lurgy – pass it on to my chum while I rides with him in his car – and he’ll pass it on to Mrs. Paranoid and that will be the end old Mr. Paranoid – morto!

I image she’s usually humming “Ol’ Man River” – but with the words changed a little bit:- “I’m scared of livin’ and scared of dyin'”

107951 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to Ned of the Hills, 20, #758 of 907 🔗

I have been thinking about this lately. Why do some people – those who strongly support lockdowns – seem to want there to be more deaths. I can only guess that if there are more deaths it validates there views on strong lockdowns. But if there are no deaths, then their worldview starts to crumble.

107963 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tommo, 10, #759 of 907 🔗

In fact, they love death.
So long as it isn’t their own.

107964 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tommo, 6, #760 of 907 🔗

I think you are probably correct in your thinking. Sort of similar to Stockholm syndrome after a fashion.

Anyone genuinely wanting to see deaths of regular folk unknown to them personally must have a fault somewhere. I don’t suppose these same people wish for more deaths of animals for an example.

107967 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tommo, #761 of 907 🔗


108241 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tommo, #762 of 907 🔗

if there are no deaths, then their worldview starts to crumble.

That’s because their worldview is composed of flimsy materials.

107962 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #763 of 907 🔗

More tests, more positives (many false positives)

108044 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Lockdown Truth, #765 of 907 🔗

Very good – I’m sorry it has not had more views.

108081 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, #766 of 907 🔗

Wow, that’s graphic!
Is that UK? Graphs need more labels please.

107946 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 23, #767 of 907 🔗

AG and I at the hairdresser, just now: A dad with a foul black jockstrap on his face was waiting for his little girls to have their hair cut. The youngest one kept trying to pull his mask off and was obviously fascinated by AG and me with our bare faces and she kept smiling at us and vice versa. All the time, High Peak Radio, between records was blasting out relentless fear porn. We rarely hear any radio and it was really shocking. Obviously we knew this is how it is but it was still a jolt to get a dose of what many people are hearing day-in, day-out.

Anyway, we were muttering a bit but not overdoing it, especially as nobody was talking, it was weirdly silent in there, even the normally chatty hairdresser was quiet. Suddenly Dad jumped up and said he was going to the bank machine. When he came back the black monstrosity had gone and it never reappeared. See what he did there? We were so happy to see this and, miraculously, we all started chatting and a really nice atmosphere developed. It was like a tiny miracle!

The hairdresser is a full-on sceptic and took her visor off once there was only us. She has started developing spots from wearing it. She refuses to wear a mask anyway but how can this be right?

What an antidote to bloody ‘Woke Central’, a.k.a. New Mills where we went shopping earlier. In fairness there were possibly fewer masks on the street than a week ago but only us and 1 bloke were without a muzzle in the Coop. The funny bit was this: we were sitting with a coffee by a charity stop where the female member of staff was unmasked. Of course, any New-Millsite who went to shop in there was obediently muzzling up before entering. We observed to another bloke outside the cafe, isn’t it interesting how this virus knows who to go for. His answer – ‘She should be wearing a mask’. We said, ‘No it should be the other way round’. His response? To show us an absolutely filthy mask he keeps in his pocket. Another candidate for a nasty bacterial infection, we think! MW

108125 ▶▶ Edward, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #768 of 907 🔗

I have a little book Nine Local History Walks around New Mills which I bought from the Heritage Centre a few years ago. As I’m interested in industrial history I’d like to do these walks. (I already know the Torrs river valley and the Sett Valley Trail). But maybe I don’t want to go there any time soon!

108130 ▶▶ Pjb, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #769 of 907 🔗

Hi, is there any way you can indicate where this hairdresser is, if they do gents as well of course. I haven’t managed to find any round Macc way that will do anything without masks and visors. Many thanks

107955 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 9, #770 of 907 🔗

Absolutely horrific stories about US students on college campuses. Sounds an awful lot like the LTC home my grandmother was in before she died last month — locked in a room by yourself with food either brought to you or pre-packaged and eaten in dorm room. And of course a lot of bait-and-switch — the promise of in-person instruction and then a few weeks in courses go completely online.


108003 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #771 of 907 🔗

Horror stories!

They should just call them gulags, not universities. I can’t see the kids wanting to stay, as soon as they’re allowed to escape, so the institutions are signing their own death warrants.

Yet today, the athletes, with permission of and active participation by the University, were permitted to organize a BLM march through campus.”


108140 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #772 of 907 🔗

We sent my daughter back a week ago and she’s under house arrest (aka quarantine) for 2 weeks and must take 3 unnecessary Covid tests during her house arrest period. She will get half of her classes in person (for now at least) and lives in her own place off campus. We would have never sent her back to live in residence (aka prison). She felt like living in residence was kind of like a prison before Covid! Now it’s literally a prison.

108242 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #773 of 907 🔗

Ontario Premier Ford is an Edsel.

108025 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #774 of 907 🔗

My god. I just read this. It makes me feel sick. My heart goes out to all of them.

108031 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #775 of 907 🔗

There’s a ‘healthy pledge’ elsewhere in today’s comments from a concerned student in Eire.

Campuses were always going to be the battle ground of bringing in the new awful. Students have no control over universities they are lab rats, or more correctly masked hamsters.

108059 ▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #776 of 907 🔗

Grim was it in that dawn to be alive,
But to be young was very hell.

108122 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #777 of 907 🔗

God almighty.

If Alexander Solzhenitsyn were alive today he would have to write a sequel to The Gulag Archipelago.

107956 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #778 of 907 🔗

Hi all

Can anyone find that research done in Italy where they went back over those early deaths and found that only 12% were actually caused by Covid?

I can’t find it. Worried it may have gone down the memory hole.


107997 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Steeve, 1, #780 of 907 🔗

That’s it thanks!

107988 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #781 of 907 🔗

Here’s the speech in the Italian Parliament by Vittorio Sgarbi about the data.

107999 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #782 of 907 🔗

Great! Thanks

107976 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #783 of 907 🔗

Best sign I saw today.


I liked it because it was like a tiny teach yourself German lesson in amongst the flotsam and jetsam of impenetrable really very long indeed words.

Berlin still going on as the sunsets. Peacefully.

108016 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 15, #784 of 907 🔗

Epic scenes from Berlin. The flood lights are on the speeches continue. The crowd drifts away slowly. A festival of a day. Spectacular humans.

107978 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 29, #785 of 907 🔗

Sound the alarm! Sound the alarm! My province of British Columbia just had a massive SPIKE of 124 cases yesterday. A province of 5 million inhabitants I might add. Can’t believe I just made it home from the gym without dying

107992 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Eddie, 8, #786 of 907 🔗

I thought BC was the only spot of sanity during this whole debacle, so welcome to the rest of Canada! I’ve noticed the rhetoric out of BC has changed and there’s lots of talk of stronger measures to ensure compliance because young people are not behaving themselves. Not sure if you’re forced to mask yet, but if not I’m guessing you will be very soon.

108058 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #787 of 907 🔗

Your young people are behaving sanely?
Shock, horror, devastation.

108133 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to annie, 5, #788 of 907 🔗

Every time my girls do something they’re not “supposed” to do I give them a thumbs up. My 23-year-old started dating — in person, imagine that! My 19-year-old is under house arrest in another province but is allowed to break quarantine to go get 3 unnecessary Covid tests. She decided that if it was OK to be out and about to get a Covid test it would be fine to pick up a few things from the store or just go for a solo walk. My girls are generally rule followers but they must take after me and break rules that are nonsensical. Kids will be kids…thank goodness!

108197 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #789 of 907 🔗

Not yet Lisa and I won’t be if they decide to go that way here. There’s enough maskholes wearing them voluntarily now…I was one of 3 people (out of 15 estimated) in a golf store just now rocking the clean face.

107985 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 6, #790 of 907 🔗

1108 new cases today -ie postive tests -must be so disappointing for the DM who can’t headline with “Terrifying rise in cases as second wave takes off”. What is going on ? More and more tests, more and more examples of what Karen and Ken would call covidiocy but the number of positives stubbornly refuses to rise. What is France doing that manages to get over 7000 on Friday and 5000 today?

107993 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 4, #791 of 907 🔗

Dodgy batch of tests?

107990 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #792 of 907 🔗

Go back around 6 months and check the W.H.O. timeline. I think their advice and guidelines were a deliberate lie to give more time for the virus to spread out from China. Maybe they weren’t incompetent, maybe it was just a delay tactic.

108000 ▶▶ Basics, replying to richard riewer, 4, #793 of 907 🔗

Fauci has said that they misled deliberately about the use of masks in order to protect medical stock piles. I don’t have a link – it is out there. Given this statement anything can be happening. It’s a false reality spun around us.

108006 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to richard riewer, #794 of 907 🔗

This little book by Bill Gertz gives a good chronology of events

How China’s Communist Party Made the World Sick

108020 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to richard riewer, 2, #796 of 907 🔗

I remember reading a few months back, someone analysed the trade deal with US-China that Trump did… the Chinese had a gap of 6 weeks+ where they modified the original deal. The modified deal literally mentions invalidating certain conditions in the event of a pandemic. Course I’m sure they just got lucky with that.

107998 richard riewer, #797 of 907 🔗

This Richie Allen broadcast on April 1st, 2020, was no April Fools joke. Starting at about 27:30 is the beginning of an interview with Celeste Solum. She takes us all the way back to the WEP forum in Davos.

108002 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 23, #798 of 907 🔗

Sorry for duplicate (I added this to a thread below) but thought it worth sharing pic again in its own post as the size of the crowds in Berlin today were impressive. From Robert F Kennedy’s Instagram.

Great to see Germany leading the way.
comment image

108036 ▶▶ Rosser, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #799 of 907 🔗

Fantastic to see.

108005 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #800 of 907 🔗

Good old Bill! You’ll laugh at this one, particularly the last paragraph:


108013 ▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Tenchy, 8, #801 of 907 🔗

I’m old enough to remember when Bill Gates was an asshole. Now he’s an asshole with a Messiah complex.

Love the bit about “The geek community viewed the Microsoft hoopla with an ironic detachment”. Ah, ironic detachment. Please come by back, all is forgiven. We need you more than ever. (I miss the 90s).

108014 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tenchy, 2, #802 of 907 🔗

Was the writer being secretly ironic?

108026 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 4, #803 of 907 🔗

Ha! I was thinking about the deposition earlier today. 12-16(?) Hours of his interview on youtube. It makes horrific viewing for his behaviour alone.

I was contemplating today if that anti trust experience trigger something in him that has spiralled to what monster is before us today. The deposition tapes are worth looking at. For his body language if nothing more.

Yes, the Guardian’s last paragraph gets it dead wrong in my opinion.

108093 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #804 of 907 🔗

He’s always been ruthless, he didn’t build Microsoft into what it is today by being a nice guy

Here’s some footage of him ruthlessly taking over a competitors business from the 1990’s:


108110 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tenchy, #805 of 907 🔗

The Guardian finally realising where some of their core readership stand, therefore running articles that get them hooked back in?

Comments are pretty mixed!

108018 richard riewer, 1, #806 of 907 🔗


108029 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 25, #807 of 907 🔗

Interesting letter in today’s DT (one of a number from doctors) – my highlighting:

“SIR – Neil Mortensen, the President of the Royal College of Surgeons ( report, August 28 ) estimates that NHS surgeons are working at 50 per cent capacity because of procedures to protect against the Covid-19 virus.
Why are these still in place when (by the only measures that matter, deaths and hospital admissions) the epidemic is over and has been for some time?
This egregious damage to health services, the economy, education and social cohesion has gone on too long.
John Black FRCS
President, Royal College of Surgeons 2008-11
Malvern, Worcestershire”


108033 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ozzie, 8, #808 of 907 🔗

If only someone in the MSM would put those points to Johnson, Wankock and the rest.

108057 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #809 of 907 🔗

And you think they’d get a coherent answer?

108056 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #810 of 907 🔗

Surely this voice must carry some weight with our governing imbeciles?

108245 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ozzie, #811 of 907 🔗


108043 Keith, 2, #812 of 907 🔗

I’ve been strongly enough a lockdown sceptic for long enough that I’m not sure whether:


is a bed-wetter’s piece or actually written by one of us. The cost of a “light lockdown” is economic crisis, the article makes this plain and shows how light lockdowns still don’t do damage so terrible as the carnage a harder lockdown causes. Reading as I did I found the piece to be standing against lockdown on the basis that even a light one hurts. The Dutch have NOT seen a death-rate-cost from locking down very little, they HAVE seen an economic-cost from having locked down even a bit. Locking down is never intelligent, but the Dutch were still more sensible than the UK or France or Belgium. Belgium was, until the cost of prolonged hard lockdowns became evident in Peru, world leader in excess deaths per million, probably BECAUSE not despite of the hard lockdown Belgium had.

108047 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 27, #813 of 907 🔗

There was a show on T4 called Shipwrecked that aired between 1999-2012.


In one particular episode the islanders decided to kill the pet pig for some much needed protein. There was a bit of a split as some people had grown quite attached to the pig.

However there was a vote and the idea of some roast pig was too good to turn down after weeks of tinned lambs tongue and foraged food.

They had clearly been shown how to kill the pig humanely and most were willing to take part in the killing. One guy in particular refused to even watch as it was against his ethics, which was fair enough. However, after the deed was done and the pig roasted he had no problem in eating it.

There will be people criticising those who are protesting around the world about the restrictions to our freedoms. But I bet that these very people will quite happily enjoy any freedoms that may be hard won for them without a second thought.

108246 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nobody2020, #814 of 907 🔗

Let us do the dirty work while others cower under their beds.

108049 davews, 14, #815 of 907 🔗

Talking to my brother on the phone tonight. He suffers from asthma and has the same hearing aid tangling issue I had. He was not aware of the exemptions, guess we have another recruit.

108054 DJC, replying to DJC, 51, #816 of 907 🔗

My wife and I took part in our first ever demonstration today at Place de la Nation in Paris, against masks and against lockdowns. We weren’t sure what to expect but when we arrived there were already several hundred people present. We had to pass through a circle of police to attend, it seemed at times that there were almost as many police as demonstrators. A mixed crowd, it was good to meet and discuss with fellow sceptics. The main demands were for freedom of choice and liberty in general and against the horrific treatment that kids will receive when schools start again. The police refused to allow anyone to exit except through a narrow tunnel where apparently identity cards were examined and fines of €135 applied for non-wearing of masks. More police arrived all the time, their circle getting closer in an obvious attempt to intimidate. Eventually they “retreated”, allowing the remaining crowd to disperse freely, finally advancing to remove the last protestors.

It was strange and strangely exhilarating to shake hands with strangers after so long a time, to meet and talk with intelligent people who are against this madness. Maybe not a huge impact, but at least a stand.

108055 ▶▶ annie, replying to DJC, 13, #817 of 907 🔗

Well done. As you say, a stand against such disgusting bullying and dehumanisation.

108066 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to DJC, 3, #818 of 907 🔗

Yes well done 👍🏼

108088 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to DJC, #819 of 907 🔗

Nice work.

108067 Sara, replying to Sara, 48, #820 of 907 🔗

I had a great time in Trafalgar Square today. First time I have ever been to a protest rally. Lovely to see so many people. The lady compering the event did a great job over three and a half hours despite problems with the PA system, and the police confiscating equipment. I am (was) a church goer who feels let down by the establishment church who seem to have prioritised the government and fear over God, so I was impressed when she prompted us to say the Lord’s Prayer.
Piers Corbyn was very good. I was nervous of what David Icke would say, but he kept his talk to the main issue of lockdown, and was entertaining. There was one speaker on 5G which for me is slightly off-topic but we all share the common goal of wanting a return to the old normal and old freedoms, so I am more than happy to share my support with all the thousands who were in Trafalgar Square today.

108072 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Sara, 12, #821 of 907 🔗

I thought David Icke absolutely stole the show. His speech was a rousing call to arms. As you said, he stayed on message which did seem to be a problem with some of the other speakers.

108107 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Chicot, 1, #822 of 907 🔗

Was any of it streamed on YouTube? I’ve been trying to find it.

108113 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to James007, 1, #823 of 907 🔗

There was a live stream. YouTube may have fiddled the search algorithm to make it hard to find.

108135 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to James007, 2, #824 of 907 🔗
108399 ▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Lucky, #825 of 907 🔗

Brilliant thanks !

108087 ▶▶ Ruby Brunel, replying to Sara, 5, #826 of 907 🔗

I was also at the demo in London today. I thought the crowd numbers were good and bigger than some others have suggested on here – it certainly felt like that when we marched down to Whitehall. People around me and those that I saw were all like minded folk who want an end to this madness and want their freedoms restored. I’ve never been on a protest before but I’m so glad I was part of this today.

108109 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Sara, 5, #827 of 907 🔗

I heard/saw a bit on YouTube. Dolores Cahill was impressive.

108069 mjr, replying to mjr, 6, #828 of 907 🔗

On BBC internet posted an hour ago
Scotland has recorded its second highest daily jump in coronavirus cases since the end of May.
A further 88 people have tested positive for coronavirus in Scotland in the last 24 hours.
First Minister Nicola Sturgeon tweeted there was “no need for alarm” and the rise was partly due to increased testing.
There were no new deaths reported in the past 24 hours…………”

Not an unreasonable report

However, headline on main BBC home page from where it is linked
“Second highest rise in Covid cases since May”
Which is pure scaremongering

108082 ▶▶ Albie, replying to mjr, 15, #829 of 907 🔗

Bit rich of Sturgeon saying no cause for alarm. There never was! She’s the one who has been frightening people to maintain her power over what they can and can’t do. Not dissimilar to your average domestic abuse perpetrator, except she’s doing it to an entire country.

108086 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Albie, 5, #830 of 907 🔗

I’ve won! Don’t you dare to think for a minute that I haven’t won! It was all me, I did it. If you think there’s anything to worry about now, you’re probably English.

108132 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to mjr, 4, #831 of 907 🔗

Good thing those masks are stopping the spread!

108148 ▶▶ guy153, replying to mjr, 2, #832 of 907 🔗

No cause for alarm it’s just increased testing? That’s a little off-message. She’s supposed to pretend those are literally the only 88 infections in Scotland. 88 appears to be the new Zero. (There are probably in reality about 3000).

108150 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to mjr, 2, #833 of 907 🔗

I’m actually surprised at Sturgeon saying “no need for alarm”. The Scottish Government is the most risk averse organisation going.

108152 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to mjr, 2, #834 of 907 🔗

I’m glad the BBC are scaremongering. She’s been scaremongering for six months. Taste of her own medicine.

108083 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #835 of 907 🔗

Now even MSM New York times journalist has discovered that
Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. “NEW: All these months into the pandemic, we may have been testing the wrong way. Data from some state labs suggest up to 90% (!!) of people who get a positive result are no longer contagious and don’t need to isolate.
This is from a journalist who wants to test more and rapidly results. She is concerned about Ct value in the test. The more spins needed in the process the less virus. And if spins more than 35-40 is used, this is too sensitive and detect not true cases.
An explanation of Ct in PCR tests is here. The analogy is like zooming in on your computer (the spin Ct) the more you need to zoom in, the less virus

Very interesting this discussion about PCR test and Ct value, as all journalists think that high viral viral load (fewer spins) means more transmission but that is not exactly the case. They forgot that the virus must be viable and you need to culture it to show this.This is a recent published analysis
“No study to date has cultured live virus beyond day nine of illness despite persistently high viralloads. SARS-CoV-2 viral load in the upper respiratory tract appears to peak in the first week of illness”
So we have manic PCR testers thinking that viral load in the PCR tests indicate high risk of transmission and others doing viral culture which can not detect viable virus after 9 days irrespective of the high viral load according to PCR.One can easily see a massive confusion in the future. How on earth can you ever prove transmission from a asymptomatic person unless you do a viral culture as relying on PCR quantification of virus is meaningless?

108129 ▶▶ Anthony, replying to swedenborg, 3, #836 of 907 🔗

With all the potential issues with PCR (it still seems weird to me that they seemingly amplify beyond 30 cycles until signal is or isn’t produced) I still can’t understand why more emphasis isn’t place on serological (antigen) testing. I’d imagine this test would be easier and faster to perform so not sure why it doesn’t have greater role in the current testing regime. Maybe it’s considered less sensitive, which may actually be a good thing, in respect to it only detecting those that are actually infectious.

108137 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 6, #837 of 907 🔗

You’re probably actually infectious for about four days typically but PCR positive for maybe three or four weeks (and longer but with greatly reduced probability). You make a good point about cycle threshold. Obviously no point actually culturing samples for any purpose other than research. Mass PCR testing is already a huge waste of money that governments haven’t got.

108154 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 1, #838 of 907 🔗

The PCR test, by definition, can’t measure true viral presence, let alone viral load or actual infection.

108188 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to swedenborg, 2, #839 of 907 🔗

Something strange is going on here. Suddenly, over the course of a couple of days, the MSM is making encouraging noises. I’d love to think that they have all finally engaged their (tiny monkey) brains, or that the herd has started wandering towards the light, but something seems fishy. We have had a number of articles from prime MSM propaganda mouthpieces, all heading the same way. This is too sudden, my instincts say that this is bait.
I hope that this is rats sensing a sinking ship, but as usual I’m sceptical.

108191 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #840 of 907 🔗

I’ve noticed it too, BluePill.
On BBC 6 o’ clock news today/yesterday? (can’t recall exactly) they had some report about the government giving £6m odd to scientists researching T cells, and mentioned ‘cross-immunity too for the first time.
I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.
Anyone have a link to this news item?

108196 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, #842 of 907 🔗

Better understanding of these immune responses, particularly the T cell response, could provide targets for new therapies to treat COVID-19 and inform the efforts to develop a vaccine.’

Or it might just say ‘Don’t bother – herd immunity has got there first.’

108085 annie, replying to annie, 15, #843 of 907 🔗

Would your government lie to you?
Of course they do.
You know that’s true.
It’s all deceit and bugaboo.

108103 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to annie, 7, #844 of 907 🔗

Annie is the Queen of rhyme
A lady writing in her prime
Thought provoking, every line
Makes me giggle every time

108156 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Howie59, 2, #845 of 907 🔗

Thank you for that kindly rhyme!

108090 matt, replying to matt, 22, #846 of 907 🔗

It’s my birthday today (not fishing).

My prevailing thought all day has been “unless the world changes back, I’m not sure I want another one.”

108096 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to matt, 8, #847 of 907 🔗

Happy Birthday Matt! Keep positive, things will get better, we will fight to make it so!

108098 ▶▶ James007, replying to matt, 5, #848 of 907 🔗

Happy Birthday Matt,
Let’s hope for many happier birthdays to come!

108102 ▶▶ stewart, replying to matt, 9, #849 of 907 🔗

That’s pretty dark. This is a good place to remind you that there are plenty of sane people left.

108104 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to matt, 6, #850 of 907 🔗

Happy Birthday. Hang in there. I know exactly how you feel. Its very hard to focus on the future and get on with things amidst this utter nonsense. The truth will out though, Keep the faith.

108105 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 8, #851 of 907 🔗

Happy birthday Matt. Chin up. I still think things change for the better in October – not long now!

108123 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to matt, 5, #852 of 907 🔗

Happy Birthday Matt. Celebrating future birthdays are celebrations of the change you are contributing to.

108126 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to matt, 12, #853 of 907 🔗

Happy birthday Matt! I have days like that as well — just had one yesterday when I tried to reason with our local health officer to stop renewing the mask mandate and at least make it voluntary again, given we have ZERO cases. When I asked what the exit strategy was — how far below zero we had to get — he started touting the “when the vaccine” comes bullshit. I was literally in tears thinking this will never end. But today I said to myself, I’m not letting these morons win and beat me down. At least we have a place here to commiserate, share war stories, and try to keep each other’s spirits up. Let’s live to fight another day!

108142 ▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 3, #854 of 907 🔗

Happy birthday! Don’t worry, people will get bored of the nonsense before very long.

108147 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 1, #855 of 907 🔗

Happy Birthday Matt!!! We will get through this!

108151 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to matt, 1, #856 of 907 🔗

Hang in, it’ll change. Step back from this shit for the weekend and let loose. Happy Birthday!

108155 ▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 1, #857 of 907 🔗

Happy birthday, and yes, you do want another one, because you want to see us liberated and vindicated, and our loathsome enemies get what they deserve, and you will!

108166 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to matt, 1, #858 of 907 🔗

Come on Matt, brace up. Imagine you’d been born today in 1914 in Moscow, and were celebrating your however long life from that date, instead. This is nothing.

108169 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to matt, 2, #859 of 907 🔗

Happy birthday. I must say I felt similarly grim on my birthday which fell on the last day before mandatory nuzzles in shops.

108115 Biker, replying to Biker, 2, #860 of 907 🔗

Fuck the lockdown watch the Daniel Dubois fight on tonight.

108120 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Biker, 4, #861 of 907 🔗

Sat at home with the father-in-law watching the undercard. Can’t see the main event lasting long at all.

Not entirely sure what the virtue signaling masks are all about in the fighter’s corners. Referee has one on too. Completely bonkers.

108138 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Howie59, #862 of 907 🔗

Edwards has a terrible hair style and i want him to lose based purely on that

108157 ▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Biker, 1, #863 of 907 🔗

Me too. The pigtails fell out after round one. Then followed a 36 minute exhibition of dance. He’s not gonna make PPV with that style.

108172 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Howie59, #864 of 907 🔗

the Dubois fight was rubbish, totally pointless. Let me know when he fights someone worth fighting

108179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Biker, #865 of 907 🔗

Agree. As pointless as a lockdown without a virus. His next fight is scheduled for October against Joe Joyce who can box, though that one will be PPV.

108127 Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 2, #866 of 907 🔗

Evening all! EPISODE 4 of Bedwetters is here!

Today we talk about the University Health NKVD!

The awakening of politicians and the media in Europe (But Bozza is still dosing)

Plus the usual round up the latest stats from the ONS.


👉 https://bedwetters.buzzsprout.com/ 👈

108247 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, #867 of 907 🔗

Thanks for the masked mutton Lord Rickmansworth.

108131 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #868 of 907 🔗

Matt Wancock (aka Lieutenant Gruber) getting a pasting on Twitter:


108145 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #869 of 907 🔗

Mutt Wankock sitting on the fence while muttering dire threats.

108146 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #870 of 907 🔗

But the comments are brilliant.

108248 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #871 of 907 🔗

Wacko Wankock.

108153 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #872 of 907 🔗

If ever I’ve wanted to take a running, flying kick at someone

108158 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #873 of 907 🔗

Haha! The photo!! Brilliant comments.

108253 ▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Lucky, #874 of 907 🔗

Desperate for a laugh these days, I found it funny for a bit. I now see him as the devil incarnate disguised as Val Doonican (for those who remember). My hatred for MH is beyond words.

108159 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #875 of 907 🔗

What an absolute utter wankock. Gearing up to take the credit when the Famed Second Wave doesn’t happen. Oh Matt, the Great Matt, our saviour. What a complete div he looks perched up on that fence. I want to push him off into a field full of cowpats…

108160 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #876 of 907 🔗

And I know this has been said before – but just how does this fit in with Boris’ Big Back to Work Bonanza?

108162 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #877 of 907 🔗

He seems to have carte blanche to talk absolute wank.

Why is that?

108134 richard riewer, 2, #878 of 907 🔗

Storm the Bastille!

108144 Beth, 3, #879 of 907 🔗

Here’s the link to the video of the StandupX rally in Trafalgar Square, 29th August 2020 –
Scroll right down the page to Events and the video is immediately below the listing for today’s rally. Wasn’t able to attend but watched the whole thing live this afternoon. You won’t be surprised to learn that none of it has been shown on BBC/ITV/Sky etc as far as I know.

108161 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 17, #880 of 907 🔗

Seems like cases are rising steeply in all the Loony Lockdown countries: France, Spain and Scotland have all been highlighted since yesterday. More than ever, as the Lockdown train slams into the reality buffers, we are winning the argument. Now Sturgeon is doing an about turn and arguing the rise is an artefact of testing! Wonderful to see the Lockdown lunatics tying themselves up in knots.

108164 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 12, #881 of 907 🔗

Cases rising even though masks are mandatory in all these countries, and even flu cases and death rising. Shows they do diddly squat and are just a mind control device!

108168 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 3, #882 of 907 🔗

Good points!

108165 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 13, #883 of 907 🔗

A few shots of the crowds from today, just to show there was more than a few hundred. I thought the atmosphere was really festival like, actually great to be in a big crowd like this after all this time. The 5G/Icke crowd were out in force, but overall, a bigger mix of society would be hard to find.

108190 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #884 of 907 🔗

Great to see you Brits coming together today!

108167 PoshPanic, 7, #885 of 907 🔗


108175 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 13, #886 of 907 🔗

There’s a great comment in The Telegraph against this article:


“It is physically impossible for a mask to prevent you spreading a virus you do not have.”

108182 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Tenchy, 13, #887 of 907 🔗

Another comment “Note that mask-wearing is for ever.
If positive tests ever fell to zero, that would prove masks work, so we must continue wearing them.
If positive tests don’t fall to zero, then that would prove we must continue wearing masks.
There’s no way out of it. “

108186 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to arfurmo, 16, #888 of 907 🔗

I put paprika on my garden to keep out leprechauns. I’ve never seen a leprechaun yet, so the paprika really works.

108187 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Bella, 4, #889 of 907 🔗

That’s silly, obviously. But what really truly does work as a herbal remedy to keep away the Covid is a mixture of dandelion and twitch grass. Luckily I have a huge stash in my garden. I just hope people don’t get to hear about it and start helping themselves in the dead of night, or when I’m out taking my statutory exercise.

108249 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bella, 2, #890 of 907 🔗

They don’t like Hungarian spices?

108180 Wesley, replying to Wesley, 17, #891 of 907 🔗

Wow, just wow. This takes the whole overcounting issue to a stratospheric new level. The CDC quietly admits that the true death toll in the US is just 6% of the much trumpeted 153,000

108193 ▶▶ Not Tiger Woods, replying to Wesley, 2, #892 of 907 🔗

Tune in to tomorrow’s CNN, “Why the whole of the CDC are Russian agents and Putin’s Puppet…”

108221 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Wesley, 3, #893 of 907 🔗

Well it’s like the UK. Subtract comorbities and under 70 and you only have 300 deaths and frankly they can probably be accounted for with undiagnosed heart conditions. 120 people a week die that way in the UK. My friend’s partner died a few years ago. There was no explanation. Somebody suspected an undiagnosed heart condition. His heart was sent to Italy to be tested by experts! It came back positive. I assume that level of diagnosis isn’t being done now which could easily account for hundreds of Covid “deaths”…

108250 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Wesley, #894 of 907 🔗

Screw them. Sue them.

108194 Lucky, replying to Lucky, 1, #895 of 907 🔗

Aah..19th century history:

“Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you
Ye are many-they are few.”

Percy Bysshe Shelley, The Masque of Anarchy: Written on Occasion of the Massacre at Manchester ;

A lot less bloodshed than presently. We just need the ‘unvanquishable number’.


108251 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lucky, 1, #896 of 907 🔗

Mother of Mary Shelley who later married Percy.

108206 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 13, #897 of 907 🔗

Last week I did something reprehensible as a human. I had the nerve to spend a whole week enjoying myself in the sun-drenched south of France. It was great.
I understood that by the letter of the law I would have to quarantine, even though I personally could not care any less.
Today my mother came around to deliver some top-up essential shopping. This is someone who disregarded the initial bullshit lockdown restrictions and came to “illegal” barbecues. I was rather shocked to see a muzzled figure at my back door dropping off shopping. I went into the garden to say hello and I was astonished that she actually jumped away when I got within 2.5 meters. Can you imagine that? Your own mother jumping away, all because you went to France? I was appalled and struggled to hide it. This covid paranoia has actually superceded the most powerful maternal instincts. I have always found myself surprised at how maternal instincts supersede logic, but I was stunned to find that this madness even supersedes those. At least it confirmed what we all know, in that muzzles are worn in futility to protect the wearer and there is nothing altruistic about them.
One day (hopefully soon) she is going to realise that I was right and that she was a fucking moron.

108214 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to TheBluePill, 5, #898 of 907 🔗

We have to remember that in WW1 tens of millions overcame that most basic of natural instincts -fear of extinction – and went to their deaths. Social obligation is a powerful force.

108310 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to TheBluePill, #899 of 907 🔗

The face mask wearing I’m sure generates paranoia. Which is ironical because I’m sure it was largely introduced to give people the belief it was safe to come out from behind the sofa.

108213 Stevie1984, replying to Stevie1984, 7, #900 of 907 🔗

Daily Mail has a disparaging article calling the London lockdown protesters crack pots.
They have just dissapeared the comments because a comment that strongly agreed with the lockdown sceptic vibe and calling out the media had a massive thumbs up. Approx 12500 versus the thumbs down of Approx 750. This was about 10pm, I just checked again and they have removed all the comments.

108231 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Stevie1984, #901 of 907 🔗

Great assortment of pics though. No comments is a rarity on Daily Fail

108220 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #902 of 907 🔗

Obviously I don’t, but if I ever had any doubts about the deep state and Covid etc they would have vanished today after the way the MSM have essentially ignored the London protest. The tiny bit of coverage they give it is massively laden with “tin foil hat” ad hominems.

Absolute ***********

108230 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #903 of 907 🔗

To say the MSM are complete whores does a disservice to good honest prostitutes plying their trade on the streets of our great cities.

To say the MSM have been bought is to belittle Amazon’s annual sales figures.

To say the MSM are unprofessional is to state the bleedin’ obvious.

108243 Lucky, #904 of 907 🔗

Incredibly…if anyone’s still up..Toby’s new page is up now.

109787 H K, #905 of 907 🔗

No article on the 35k+ peaceful protestors at Trafalgar Square standing up of our rights and freedoms and opposing the lockdown restrictions?

174733 DomW, replying to DomW, #906 of 907 🔗

On a bus right now sat near someone who just freed his face after I told him about exemptions and gave him one of my self printed and laminated exemption cards which includes a link to namasks.info.

Another small win!

174751 ▶▶ DomW, replying to DomW, #907 of 907 🔗

Whoops! Wrong page


183 users made 887 comments today.

191Basics3211, 3, 3, 0, 2, 4, 6, 1, 0, 3, 4, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 3, 1, 5, 5, 1, 19, 3, 0, 1, 1, 1, 4, 2, 1, 1, 18, 6, 3, 6, 3, 12, 15, 4, 4
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59DJC8, 51
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16PaulH7, 9
16TJN14, 0, 2
16Lucky00, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 2, 4, 2, 2, 0, 1
14JimByJovi12, 2
14Cecil B70, 0, 7
14Carrie2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, 1
13IanE2, 11
13JohnB1, 12
13WhyNow0, 4, 6, 3
12A Heretic12
12Norma McNormalface4, 8
12Suzyv11, 1
12Lord Rickmansworth64, 2
12Alison91, 1, 4, 2, 4
12Drawde92782, 2, 0, 0
12Lucan Grey9, 2, 0, 1, 0
12watashi0, 3, 3, 2, 4
11Mark B11
10janis pennance10
10Castendo6, 4
10Emily Tock8, 2, 0, 0
10Jaguarpig0, 0, 7, 0, 3
9BTLnewbie7, 2
8Commander Jameson8
8David Grimbleby4, 0, 4, 0
8Edward2, 0, 1, 5
7bluemoon3, 4
7Charlie Blue5, 2
7tonyspurs2, 5
7Bruno0, -4, 4, 1, 2, 0, 3, 1
6Major Panic2, 4
6James0071, 0, 5
6Jane1, 3, 2
5john ballard5
5Ruby Brunel5
5Saved To Death5
5DomW4, 1, 0, 0
4Ovis0, 4
4Rosser1, 3
4Telpin3, 1
32 pence12
3EllGee1, 2
3GiftWrappedKittyCat1, 2
3hat man3, 0
3SweetBabyCheeses1, 2
3Silke David1, 2, 0, 0
3Yawnyaman0, 0, 3, 0
2Hoppy Uniatz2
2Mark II2
2Rod Jones2
2Judith Day1, 1
2James Bertram0, 1, 1, 0
1DJ Dod1
1Tim Bidie1
1T. Prince10
1Rowan0, 1, 0
0H K0
0Jonathan Castro0
0anon0, 0