2020-09-08

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/09/08/latest-news-128/
Published2020-09-08T02:52:53
Last updated2020-09-08T11:17:57
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:05
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119196 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 17, #1 of 1715 🔗

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/i-039-m-back-september-6th-2020_ZREIFY8auhMpzzQ.html
I’m Back! (September 6th 2020)
Dr Vernon Coleman
06 Sep 2020

119240 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #2 of 1715 🔗

did he get banned by the perverts at Youtube?

119304 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Biker, 4, #3 of 1715 🔗

Almost. They kept taking his stuff down. He explains all in the linked video.

120219 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, #4 of 1715 🔗

Dr Coleman was on the Richie Allen show yesterday and he explained where he moved. Something tube.

119197 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 18, #5 of 1715 🔗

“OUR MOVEMENT, WE CAN WIN” Says Piers Corbyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bjCkG6n0RI

119328 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #6 of 1715 🔗

This is someone I can get behind.

I don’t care too much what his thoughts are about other things.
There is nothing in that speech I disagree with and if that what he is going to fight for, I’m right behind him.

119533 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #7 of 1715 🔗

I like his optimism and definitely support his stand against the Covid Police State.

But it looks increasingly like our future has already been decided by powerful people months or perhaps even years ago behind closed doors – they are certainly going along with the Event 201 and Lockstep plan. There needs to be a mass awakening to avoid dystopia.

119558 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Darryl, 8, #8 of 1715 🔗

Its in our hands, as in we the people.

I think a lot of people just want to obey the law (as they see it), but think the whole thing is utter bullshit. They would be the ones who might push back.

There are us on here who know its bullshit.

Some are genuinely scared and/or are genuinely in at risk groups.

The rest are just bedwetters and lockdown/face nappy zealots and are lost souls.

120220 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Darryl, 1, #9 of 1715 🔗

It already is Dystopian. It’s just getting worse by the day.

119198 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #10 of 1715 🔗

Why Are Covid-19 Cases Soaring In NZ? PCR Test Update

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcONxyAJ8S4
Dr. Sam Bailey
87.8K subscribers
SUBSCRIBE
Dr Sam talks about what is happening in NZ in regards to COVID-19 and important information you should know about the COVID-19 PCR Test.

119368 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #11 of 1715 🔗

Cases are not soaring in NZ. And Dr Sam doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know. The UK uses several lines of evidence, e.g. the Covid symptom study tracked the daily cases numbers (~75%). The uptick in cases has been matched by an uptick in symptomatic cases.

119808 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Mayo, 6, #12 of 1715 🔗

She’s anti lockdown, anti social distancing and anti testing. She says cases are only going up because testing’s going up.

119200 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 36, #13 of 1715 🔗

I’ve never been remotely tempted to visit Disneyland but that description of how it now operates is very saddening.
It reminded me of the young woman who visited Weston Super Mare for the August Bank Holiday. From going through the turnstile onto the pleasure pier she was obliged to wear a mask even though the purpose of such a pier is to be able to enjoy bracing sea airs while greeting fellow visitors with a cheery smile.
That would not be possible anyway since visitors are obliged to walk up one side and return down the other like a herd of donkeys, each following the arse of the one in front.

120123 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to karenovirus, 4, #14 of 1715 🔗

It sounds truly horrifying, and seems like the definitive example of the negative social and psychological effects of compulsory mask-wearing.

The Telegraph article on Italy linked below isn’t quite so crushingly depressing by comparison, but it does show very clearly how farcically pointless it is, masking up to walk through a restaurant crowded with unmasked diners for example.

119201 annie, replying to annie, 14, #15 of 1715 🔗

Such a pity Toby didn’t enjoy Disneyhell.
But he failed to enjoy it for all the wrong reasons, as explained by this post on Trip Advisor:

“To conclude… if you are thinking of going I would wait until the pandemic is over as exposure to the virus is high risk here. Definitely feels very profit orientated which I find very sad when children are involved. However, Disney do not care as they know they have guaranteed custom but our family definitely won’t return and will encourage others considering not to either unless the park can up their game and make health a priority!”

Vive Disneysanté!

119202 ▶▶ annie, replying to annie, #16 of 1715 🔗

PS. Posted on 1 September,

119204 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #17 of 1715 🔗

(Pst… it wasn’t Toby sssh).

119205 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 5, #18 of 1715 🔗

Good, maskoid miseryguts like that ‘trip advisor’ deserve to to stay home long after this is all over.

119347 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to karenovirus, 5, #19 of 1715 🔗

It wont be over unless we get together and do something about it. See my earlier post

119227 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to annie, 3, #20 of 1715 🔗

I’m not entirely sure it isn’t Toby writing half of these postcards himself. I don’t know anyone other than the Toadmeister who consistently writes ‘normalcy’ when ‘normality’ will do…

119243 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #21 of 1715 🔗

Lots of people do it. It’s very irritating almost as irritating as people who say ‘disinterested’ when they mean ‘uninterested’.

119249 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 3, #22 of 1715 🔗

“I am uninterested in writing interesting stories and disinterested in the reactions of others.”

For example.

119282 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to matt, 6, #23 of 1715 🔗

or people who reach out instead of contact.

120334 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #24 of 1715 🔗

Stakeholder 🤔 customer
I always call my wife let a brand manager for LinkedIn when I hear such ludicrous terminology applied in a telephone call/zoom

119965 ▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #25 of 1715 🔗

I was upset about that but even more so by Fowler’s acceptance of the usage.

120816 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Julian S, 1, #26 of 1715 🔗

Fowler be damned. Disinterested is not the same as uninterested [yawn].

119229 ▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, 26, #27 of 1715 🔗

It appears to me that if Disneyland Paris, or anywhere else, carries on like that the visitor numbers will drop and it will have to close. No tears from me.

Capitalism in action. You can no more prevent it than prevent a viral inspiratory infection like covid from spreading through the population.

Ultimately, whether the mask zombies know it yet or not, people have a choice.

119364 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 16, #28 of 1715 🔗

Exactly. People have the power – it’s their cash and their feet.

Where I work is experiencing the same as well. My colleagues think its because people are still scared to venture into Central London but I always point out two factors that they seem to overlook all the time:

  • people want to be treated with dignity and respect not like Typhoid Mary
  • when your job and finances are hanging in the balance, anything that is classed as non essential will have to go. That includes going to places like Disneyland Paris or a National Trust property.
119392 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #29 of 1715 🔗

I remain convinced that this garbage is going to break on the rock of economics. Numbers, like facts, are stubborn things.

119410 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 10, #30 of 1715 🔗

And unfortunately many people are economically illiterate. They will keep on shouting “people before profit” even when everything is falling down around them.

120134 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to annie, 4, #31 of 1715 🔗

This kind of reaction seems like the precise reason why the likes of Disney are taking such a hardline approach, they’re afraid of being shamed on social media and review sites for putting “people before profit”. Though when have Disney not been “ very profit orientated “, anyway?

But if even taking a police-state approach to mask enforcement doesn’t appease people like this, what’s the point? (And what would appease them? Every visitor in a spacesuit with their own oxygen supply?)

120223 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 2, #32 of 1715 🔗

Disneysantépublique. Health Fascists.

119206 Suburbian, replying to Suburbian, 83, #33 of 1715 🔗

I saw two “No Mask, We wont ask” signs on my local high street yesterday! Thank you Lockdown Sceptics!

119207 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Suburbian, 14, #34 of 1715 🔗

Good to hear! We need some better news… The past few days’ updates have been depressing.

119212 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 32, #35 of 1715 🔗

Have you got a local 6th form College?
If so go and see if their students are behaving like ours are.

No masks
No Social Distancing
No Problems

119213 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 16, #36 of 1715 🔗

That is very cheering.
We need the positive reports.

119286 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 1, #37 of 1715 🔗

I posted about it on Friday Annie with a response to ConstantBees on Saturday who witnessed conformist Compliance at Bournemouth Uni.

119278 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 12, #38 of 1715 🔗

Same here with school kids. Only saw one wearing a mask and, from what I could see of his face, he looked so miserable.

Just walked past a group of kids and there was no swerving, they just behaved as normal. Perhaps there is hope …

119295 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 16, #39 of 1715 🔗

I just passed a mixed group of about 30 school kids waiting at a bus stop, all maskless; the only distancing going on was that the girls tended to be to one side of the stop with the boys to the other, twas ever thus.

119299 ▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to kh1485, 13, #40 of 1715 🔗

Local sixth form no social distancing, masks optional in corridors and halls, heard a story of one group of boys essentially bullying one of their friends for wearing a mask, which I normally wouldn’t encourage but I think it has to be done to get through the stupidity of it all. There is no way schools can continue with the measures. Teachers not allowed to mark books, having to stand in little squares so unable to look over people’s shoulders at their work, limiting photocopying so there is a week long backlog, won’t be long before everything is completely ignored and back to normal I expect.

119325 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 12, #41 of 1715 🔗

Same here in my area – school kids not wearing masks and no social distancing either. When a group of them boarded a bus, it was the usual gaggle all trying to get in simultaneously. The driver just let them get on with it and not one of them were wearing muzzles.

119361 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #42 of 1715 🔗

Good. I hope it will be the young who get us out of this. Though my concern is the Whitty comment of a few weeks ago, that the quid pro quo for schools reopening will be the potential closure of pubs and restaurants …

119369 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 14, #43 of 1715 🔗

I hope that Whitty is scaremongering. I don’t think that pubs and restaurants will stand for anymore nonsense with many of them extending the Eat Out to Help Out out of their own initiatives. That said I do wish they start fighting back by binning the Test and Trace nonsense for a start.

119420 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #44 of 1715 🔗

Yes, I am wondering when the business tide will turn.

119428 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 14, #45 of 1715 🔗

It will have to be soon because furlough is ending and more and more redundancies and bankruptcies will follow. I have been amazed at how cowardly and supine business leaders have been and many of them have treated customers appallingly since June. If and when they go bust I won’t shed any tears for them. They had the means to fight back, why didn’t they?

119922 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #46 of 1715 🔗

Virtue signalling that backfired.

120466 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #47 of 1715 🔗

Whitty’s a twitty.

119379 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 5, #48 of 1715 🔗

He did that quite deliberately so that virtue signallers could wail

“so you think getting pissed is more important than my kids ejukaition!”

There is a word for this that I can’t remember.

119393 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 9, #49 of 1715 🔗

Fuckwittery ?

119903 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to JohnB, 4, #50 of 1715 🔗

BTW what about his recent promise to resign? Come on, Whitty old bean, don’t disappoint us! Although it will be a shame not to see pictures in the paper of a man with a head like a light-bulb.

120588 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #51 of 1715 🔗

Actually chuckled at that one. Haha.

119637 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to karenovirus, 5, #52 of 1715 🔗

Bloody hell had to re-read this twice on first read I thought I saw ejaculation!! Haha

119844 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #53 of 1715 🔗

Wash your vocabulary out with soap tonyspurs

119854 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to karenovirus, 2, #54 of 1715 🔗

I call it moral blackmail or emotional blackmail.

119467 ▶▶▶▶▶ muzzle, replying to kh1485, 15, #55 of 1715 🔗

My daughter’s school said masks in class were optional so I told my daughter not to wear one and I would back her up if challenged. She was the only one not wearing one in tutor group and the corona-karen teacher tried it on with a load of ‘I get sick etc…’ but she resisted and it’s all fine. My son is older but in the same school and none of his classes are wearing masks.

119617 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to muzzle, 4, #56 of 1715 🔗

Wow, brave teacher … but good for your daughter …

120593 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to muzzle, 1, #57 of 1715 🔗

She will get sick, we all will. I adore that an Educator thinks a piece of cloth will prevent illness!

119312 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to karenovirus, 12, #58 of 1715 🔗

I’ve just been reading the local community FB page – lead post is from a parent complaining that the school bus from local town was crammed full, no social distancing or muzzling. Followed by 40ish (probably more by now) comments all wailing about how dangerous that is, why is there only one bus, why aren’t the rules enforced, contact the council, contact the local MP. Sigh of despair.

119373 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to bluemoon, 8, #59 of 1715 🔗

Add a comment that BTP Officers shouldbe on board to get them in head locks after a liberal dose of mace.

120271 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to bluemoon, 2, #60 of 1715 🔗

as soon as these parents have to pay for the extra buses I am sure they are happy with one.

119848 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to karenovirus, 1, #61 of 1715 🔗

In a secondary school near me they were behaving normally outside. But things may be different inside the buildings.

119236 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Suburbian, 3, #62 of 1715 🔗

Good news!!! A beacon of positivity and hope more shops follow suit.

119367 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #63 of 1715 🔗

That was exactly my reaction when I first saw it on Friday Bart.
The College students are keeping it up, I just saw a large group coming from the main train station, they might have been wearing on board but they were gone asap.
Wearing masks is definitely UnCool or whatever word they use these days.

119375 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 6, #64 of 1715 🔗

Good point about college students – either not muzzled or if they have them its clear that they’re taking the piss.

Even the large chains like Pret aren’t policing it. The other day I was getting something to take away, there was a small queue and not one of us were muzzled and no one was following the dots on the floor either.

120464 ▶▶▶▶ Olaf Felts, replying to karenovirus, 1, #65 of 1715 🔗

Well, this gets difficult. Not wearing a mask is well, ‘sick’. Though not as you would normally ‘sick’ to mean. Think the reverse of sick and you have the idea!

119238 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Suburbian, 40, #66 of 1715 🔗

We’ve got a “No Masks in Here” sign in our shop. It’s telling how many people (actually, especially the ‘at risk’ elderly) who say “thank god for that” and yank the things from their faces before they come in.

119314 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to kh1485, 9, #67 of 1715 🔗

I wish more shops would follow your lead. Where I am, the masking seems to have increased over the last couple of weeks, with even shop staff wearing masks when they were not before.

119418 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to HelzBelz, 7, #68 of 1715 🔗

Yes, I think every other shop here demands their customers wear masks. Had two women in yesterday, initially not wearing masks, who read my sign and then put their masks on … Still trying to work that one out!

119935 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 5, #69 of 1715 🔗

Your shop is clearly a hotbed of circulating Karen killers!

120599 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to kh1485, 1, #70 of 1715 🔗

We’re you doing loud, open mouth coughing at the time? Just wondering?

119294 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Suburbian, 3, #71 of 1715 🔗

took a walk down Portobello road market yesterday. Everywhere mask wearing,information registration was being rigidly enforced.

119318 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to crimsonpirate, 3, #72 of 1715 🔗

Thanks for the heads up. I’m going to London for a few days next week. I will be wearing an exemption lanyard but even so, places like this are too much hassle. Is there any other places with this rigid enforcement that I should avoid?

119380 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 9, #73 of 1715 🔗

Any places that say “No Mask No Sale” should be avoided at all costs.

Apart from that, I think its been OK. Was in Foyles the other day and I didn’t get any looks when I went in without a muzzle.

119544 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #74 of 1715 🔗

Is there somewhere you can report shops like that, for Disability discrimination?

119858 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sophie123, 3, #75 of 1715 🔗

That is an excellent point it’s exactly the same as saying ‘no guide dogs’

The local council would be a good place to start, ask for Licensing or Safeguarding.

120498 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sophie123, 2, #76 of 1715 🔗

Local councils or trading standards I suspect would be the place to go.

121761 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Sophie123, #77 of 1715 🔗

I understand your point, but the loss of business is what will cause those signs to be removed.

119411 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 13, #78 of 1715 🔗

Also shops saying ‘card payments only’.

The other day I met an off duty Subway lady. She said
‘we don’t see you so much these days’.
“You don’t see me at all because you insist on card payment and you closed your toilets to customers”

‘Oh, it’s the Covid, head office…’
“Stabucks next door didn’t so they will be getting my custom now.”
Never been keen on Starbucks but needs must.

119429 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 11, #79 of 1715 🔗

I would recommend Caffe Nero as well – toilets open, accept cash and have no problems stamping your loyalty card.

119451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #80 of 1715 🔗

It depends on the individual cafe. In Edinburgh, for example, the one on Lothian Road is pretty much hassle free; the one at the West End is all “no cash” and lots of messing around.

119473 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Arkansas, 1, #81 of 1715 🔗

The ones I’ve been to here in London have been OK so far. I used to go to the one in Lothian Road quite a lot when I lived there.

119863 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #82 of 1715 🔗

I was in a Caffè Nero which only took cards, but apart from that and the perspex screen it was OK. I told the assistant that I would pay by card didn’t approve of not taking cash. Of course she said it wasn’t her decision but every little helps in making one’s opinion known.

120359 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #83 of 1715 🔗

Agreed and when they asked me to scan a code on my phone, I pointed out that I was take away and wasn’t planning on scanning anything, they explained they were contracturally obliged to ask me – no further hassles. The two maskless guys in front (one using his t shirt as a mask at till point) got served, no questions asked.

119474 ▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to karenovirus, 11, #84 of 1715 🔗

Thanks. I really don’t understand the card only thing because it actually costs the business to process the transaction. I was in a local independent gift shop near Glasgow last week and as per usual I asked if they would prefer cash or card. The lady serving said “cash please because it doesn’t cost me anything”. It’s almost as if the ones not accepting cash want to put themselves out of business. 🤷‍♀️

119486 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #85 of 1715 🔗

The only reason it wont cost her anything is if she is not declaring it for tax – banks charge businesses to lodge/withdraw cash.

119628 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kathryn, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #86 of 1715 🔗

Not if she then pays her bills with cash. Only costs her if she pays it into her bank. Nothing illegal if the transactions are recorded in her books either.

119947 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kathryn, 1, #87 of 1715 🔗

Thigs are mostly logged by the till nowadays.

119945 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #88 of 1715 🔗

Card companies charge shops to process the transactions and it adds up.
The transaction costs are probably tax deductable as a business expense but that won’t help a small business much.

120668 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Ewan Duffy, #89 of 1715 🔗

After what the government has done to businesses they shouldn’t be paying any tax. Why would they want to support the Nazi’s who ruined them. Let the government see what it is like to have no budget to hand with which to maintain day to day operations.

119488 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 12, #90 of 1715 🔗

It makes me laugh when I get asked, almost conspiratorially, whether we take cash. When I say “of course we do” it’s great to see the look of relief on the customer’s face. We’ve seen a huge increase in cash payments in recent weeks.

119782 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichT, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #91 of 1715 🔗

The banks charge for depositing cash, so only no cost if you can spend cash at wholesalers or deposit in personal account (perfectly legal but a bit messy for accounting). I was charged 1 percent of cash deposited when I owned a pub ( long sold thank goodness).

120673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to RichT, #92 of 1715 🔗

Card companies charge something more like %5 of transactions though, if I remember rightly. And can back-charge the seller in all kinds of really inconvenient, money-all-gone-in-a-moment, ways if transcations go wrong.

119416 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #93 of 1715 🔗

Well it’s full insta’s these days, so that explains it

119208 FatBastardMcKenzie, replying to FatBastardMcKenzie, 34, #94 of 1715 🔗

Twitter should not ban that BLM leader Sasha Johnson, I agree with Ewell Gregoor— it’s her right to say what she likes, so that people are able to see what she’s really made of.

The final test of truth is ridicule. Very few dogmas have ever faced it and survived.

119218 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to FatBastardMcKenzie, 12, #95 of 1715 🔗

Indeed, give her enough rope…

119313 ▶▶ Mark, replying to FatBastardMcKenzie, 8, #96 of 1715 🔗

I agree, and I defer to no man in my contempt for BLM, its zealots and its dupes. In fact, Toby should message this other Johnson to offer Free Speech Union support. In the full expectation of being spurned of course, but nevertheless.

There’s a legitimate argument that those who don’t uphold freedom of speech for others don’t deserve it for themselves, of course, but in the end the only real defence is a hard principle with no (or as few as possible) exceptions for the censors to exploit.

Twitter should be forced to choose between being a neutral message carrier, with appropriate protections, or a censored political advocacy platform with no protections, and if it is to be the latter then it should be actively boycotted by those who dislike its censorship policies.

120678 ▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Mark, 2, #97 of 1715 🔗

I can’t be bothered to hold an opinion on BLM’s organisation, views or aims, but I’m blodoy furious how they can run massive disruptive marches unopposed while the uniformed thugs arrest a 73 year old peaceful anti-lockdown protester for calmly addressing a small crowd.

119376 ▶▶ Julian, replying to FatBastardMcKenzie, 4, #98 of 1715 🔗

Agree. I suspect they censored her not because they fundamentally disagree with her, but because they saw her message was beyond the pale and likely to do more harm than good to the movement.

120362 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Julian, #99 of 1715 🔗

My thoughts exactly. It was a step too far.

119210 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 11, #100 of 1715 🔗

And now we discover that the Infection Fatality Risks frequently quoted for influenza are total nonsense

The consistent estimates of the infection fatality risk at around 1 to 10 deaths per 100,000 infections identified in our review ( Figure 3 ) may represent the seriousness of H1N1pdm09 in developed countries where data were available. Similar estimates for seasonal influenza viruses, however, are not available for comparison, and neither are estimates from less developed countries in which the seriousness profile would likely be higher.’

‘The use of the term “infection fatality” differentiates this risk estimate from the case fatality risk since the asymptomatic, undetected and undiagnosed infections included in the denominator would not appear as “cases” under typical case definitions.’

‘…updated pandemic plans must clarify how severity will be estimated and interpreted.’

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3809029/

The highest mortality rates were estimated in sub-Saharan Africa (2·8–16·5 per 100 000 individuals), southeast Asia (3·5–9·2 per 100 000 individuals), and among people aged 75 years or older (51·3–99·4 per 100 000 individuals).’

‘These global influenza-associated respiratory mortality estimates are higher than previously reported, suggesting that previous estimates might have underestimated disease burden.’

Estimates of global seasonal influenza mortality 14 December 2017 – Publisher: The Lancet

So IFRs and CFRs for covid 19 we know are nonsense. So are frequently quoted mortality data for influenza.

Conclusion:

Anyone modelling from currently available influenza epidemic ‘data’ is a complete numpty. And anyone basing draconian policies on such models and data is hopelessly incompetent; should be found to be in gross dereliction of duty; instantly dismissed.

119214 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tim Bidie, 15, #101 of 1715 🔗

Instaant dismissal for most of the world’s governments, then.
Can’t happen too soon.
Return of Sweden as a world power?

119316 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to annie, 4, #102 of 1715 🔗

Given the alternatives,, I think anarchy in the UK is the only answer. 😉

119337 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #103 of 1715 🔗

Looking at the economic devastation the lockdown has caused I don’t think we are far away from hyper inflation and everything that will bring in its wake

120486 ▶▶▶▶ Olaf Felts, replying to HelzBelz, #104 of 1715 🔗

Knew the Sex Pistols were onto something – are the youth listening? You do not understand the power you have oh young ones. Seriously change so often is driven by the young – we need them to find the rebellious spirit of former generations. Can you imagine a latter day Johnny Rotten being so supine as the current generation?

120416 ▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to annie, #105 of 1715 🔗

But when was Sweden a World Power??

120684 ▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Carlo, 2, #106 of 1715 🔗

When it took on the Holy Roman Empire and won the 30 years war?

120681 ▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to annie, #107 of 1715 🔗

There was a sci-fi novel, Tau Zero, in which the worl’d governments had all given up and just given Sweden power as they were the only ones who could be competent with it. i wish that could become reality today.

119219 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Tim Bidie, 9, #108 of 1715 🔗

I suspected as much when reading that Malcolm Kendrick article. The influenza mortality rate – nobody – NOBODY – seems to know how it is calculated and whether it’s an IFR or CFR.
I’ve googled until I am blue in the face.

119619 ▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to Sophie123, 1, #109 of 1715 🔗

Hello Sophie123,
I believe 17000 people die every year of flu/pneumonia the average for last five years. This means the infection fatality rate is 0.1% in other words one in four of us will get flu. Where it becomes complicated is when we talk about case fatality rate. So in March the government was only counting those people with covid symptoms. These are what the CFR is based on of which 5% died overall,today that rate is down to 0.8% and will continue to drop as more younger and healthy people are counted as cases. If want to see where all this is heading cast back to when the cruise ship Diamond Princess suffered an outbreak of covid. Then 19% of the crew and passengers became infected of which seven sadly died or 0.2% of everyone on board, this is the IFR. I mention this because ships are a great place for studying the spread of infections. I believe one in four of us will get covid and just like flu 0.1% will die. To me when you think of covid you should think atomic bomb a lot of people will die quickly followed by less and less dying as time goes on.

119796 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Derek Toyne, 1, #110 of 1715 🔗

One in four of us gets flu when? I don’t know anyone who had flu! Or do you mean asymptomatically? How do we know that one in four of us gets flu?

119970 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sophie123, 2, #111 of 1715 🔗

Exactly. I had flu a couple of years ago. I was the only person I know who got it. The reason I got it was because my husband had recently died, after a gruelling couple of years and my energy and immune system were tanked.
I didn’t contact any medic. I just made a date with my sofa for a couple of weeks and took various supplements etc.

Most people know what to do when they get flu and it doesn’t involve medics unless there are serious complications. Surely only those who land in hospital become statistics?

120253 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #112 of 1715 🔗

I don’t know that the flu IFR’s quoted are nonsense. There are studies of flu in the population covering the whole cohort, see e.g. this Lancet article:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(14)70034-7/fulltext
‘Flu Watch is one of the largest and most comprehensive studies of its type since the 1980s…Using preseason and postseason serology, weekly illness reporting, and RT-PCR identification of influenza from nasal swabs, we tracked the course of seasonal and pandemic influenza over five successive cohorts (England 2006–11; 5448 person-seasons’ follow-up).
On average influenza infected 18% of unvaccinated people each winter. Up to three-quarters of infections were asymptomatic and about a quarter of infections had PCR-confirmed disease.
Panel
On average, based on rates per 100 person-seasons, PCR-confirmed influenza was identified in 4% (95% CI 3–5) of the cohort each winter :
On average, based on rates per 100 person-seasons, influenza infected 18% (95% CI 16–22) of the unvaccinated population each winter season.
Most infections were asymptomatic.
Most people with PCR-confirmed influenza did not consult and among those who did, influenza or influenza-like illness was rarely recorded in medical notes.
Primary-care-based surveillance greatly underestimated the extent of infection and illness in the community.
In children aged 5–15 years, protective antibodies were mainly acquired as a result of natural infection over the first and second pandemic wave, in young adults (16–44 years) protective antibody levels increased mainly as a result of natural infection in the second and third wave, in people older than 45 years protective antibodies were mainly acquired as a result of vaccination during the second and third waves’.
If you think Covid19 runs through a population much as flu does, you might conclude that if the UK population is 66 M, 20% might get infected = 13M. Maybe 80% are asymptomatic (younger age cohorts), giving 20% ‘cases’, i.e. actually ill (although mostly mild and not hospitalised) of 2.6M. Covid deaths of c.40K would make the CFR c.1.5%. [IFR 0.3%].

119982 ▶▶▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to Sophie123, #113 of 1715 🔗

Hello,
I don’t know what I do know is 17000 die every year of flu/pneumonia and that the mortality rate is one in thousand. So if we multiple 17000 by 1000 we get 17000000 or about one in four of the population. A mean I’ve never heard of anyone dying from flu but it’s the pneumonia which does the damage.

120689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Derek Toyne, #114 of 1715 🔗

Trouble with finding the IFR is that for flu we aren’t so paranoid as to try to track every case, so we haven’t a clue how many people get it, all we can properly count is the smaller number that die with it. As pneumonia goes, its pretty similar for covid really, viruses don’t kill directly, but by making the immune system do things which result in death. Given the size of the excess deaths spike we’ve seen (on a par with some of the worse flu seasons of the last few decades, smaller than some, bigger than others) it make sense to say covid and seasonal flu have similar levels of danger, and affect similar groups of people.

119960 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Derek Toyne, #115 of 1715 🔗

The demographic for cruise passengers is hardly a representative cross section of the population!

120021 ▶▶▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to Cheezilla, #116 of 1715 🔗

Hello,
totally agree cruise ships usually don’t have many children on board as it’s usually retired folks who can afford such luxuries. For a scientist ships are ideal for carrying out research on the spread of infections. As said earlier 19% of the crew and passengers became infected of which seven sadly died or 0.2% of everyone on board. These facts are known and indicate how bad covid could get and possible outcomes.

120695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Derek Toyne, #117 of 1715 🔗

Intriguing how on a ship, a very confined and recycled enviornment, shared ater, lose proximity… only 19% got it. Does imply that it burns itself out afetr a fairly small proportion of the population get it. As far as working out IFR goes, the CDC estimates 0.26% (on a par with measles) for populations as a whole. In groups of younger people (military bases, homless shelters, jails, german villages, aircracft carriers) there has been a MUCH lower death rate observed.

121178 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to DontPayForGovtMistakes, #118 of 1715 🔗

Hello,
this 19% figure is an approximate for all places. Wherever you look around the world once this percentage of the population is exposed to covid you see this burnout. In Sweden unlike the UK and Europe case numbers are lower than lockdown neighbours Denmark and Norway. This is because they allowed they population to build up immunity.
With lockdown you suppress not only covid but all other infections which make our natural immunity lower. So we will see an increase in infections but hopefully not too many deaths.

120365 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sophie123, #119 of 1715 🔗

Nobody ever knows the IFR for anything, you can only ever estimate it, because you never know how many people were infected. The study Sylvie posted below (which I think you first mentioned actually) is the best I’ve seen. People are still arguing over what the IFR for the Swine Flu was, and the estimates vary by at least a factor of 10.

The CFR is much better defined but now that we do so much PCR testing of people with few or no symptoms we’re stretching the definition by calling those “cases”.

The only thing you can say for sure is that the IFR is lower than the CFR. If you did antibody studies you can get a better estimate of the IFR, but the testing does have to have been calibrated properly against mild cases.

119222 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Tim Bidie, 12, #120 of 1715 🔗

It does seem that many in charge use data and say what figures mean when there is no historical precedent and so many gaps in our knowledge. Sometimes I think you would might as well use Tarot cards or get a tea leaf prediction from the lady at the local fairground!
There has been too much arrogant and pompous talk about what might happen as if ‘they’ are in charge of what this virus does! Rather than all this high handed soothsaying there should be more focus on the actual facts; ONS registered death figures-now settled around average, Covid 19 hospital cases-now very low and Covid 19 hospital deaths now very low.

There also needs to be more care with language and terminology;
A SARS-Cov2 +ve test result is not a case, at a stretch you could call it an infection.
A Covid 19 case is where the above virus has caused significant disease symptoms requiring medical intervention.
Politicians and medical experts all seem to muddle up their terminology which just ramps up the panic.

119235 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Steve Martindale, 15, #121 of 1715 🔗

there should be more focus on the actual facts; ONS registered death figures-now settled around average, Covid 19 hospital cases-now very low and Covid 19 hospital deaths now very low.

As an argument, though, it cuts no ice. They’ll just say it is evidence that the lockdown and social distancing worked; to relax now would be to throw it all away and risk a second wave.

We knew that would be the argument before the lockdown was even imposed. Sweden was our last hope, but a huge propaganda effort has now discredited Sweden in the public’s eyes: the death rate is huge (compared to its neighbours, it says in the small print) and anyway, they effectively locked down, too, because they are more mature than us and have fewer Covidiots (it’s always a good move to accuse 52% of our own population of being irresponsible idiots whenever possible).

I just don’t think that empirical data on its own is a viable way to argue against the measures. The best argument I have seen is Malcolm Kendrick’s: we can show that Fauci mixed up IFR and CFR, and we then see where Neil Ferguson got his ‘IFR’ figure from. As Kendrick says: “All else flows from that”.

Get Fauci in a chair in front of a committee and very specifically home in on what he publicly said. Then get Neil Ferguson and home in on the figures he put in his ‘model’. Where did he get them from? And what would the consequences have been had he used a different, more justifiable, figure? Get him to tell us the expected deaths based on the new figure.

And I would also like someone to ask Neil Ferguson about cross-reactive T cell immunity, the non-binary nature of infection, the fact that 80% of the population already had some immunity and so on. Did his model incorporate any of these factors? (answer: no). What would be the result if it did? Were these factors unknown, or a secret among immunologists? If not, why did his model not incorporate them?

119297 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #122 of 1715 🔗

Also correct. The British government, in the throes of Brexit, is at the mercy of international pressure, U.S. politician (Brendan someone……) threatening Britain only this morning……

Post 03 Nov, Brexit and U.S. Presidential election pretty much done and dusted, British MPs must be pressurised to clamour for an independent public inquiry so that this debacle, licence for charlatans, never happens again.

119287 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Steve Martindale, 10, #123 of 1715 🔗

Correct. More drivel on all broadcast media this morning. The off switch is almost worn out now…….

119455 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #124 of 1715 🔗

I have forgotten how to turn on the TV or the radio.

119470 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #125 of 1715 🔗

BBC R2 7am news.
“Companies employing more than twenty workers have indicated that they would lay off 305,000 workers to the end of July…. as the worldwide Pandemic continues to cut a swathe through British industry…”.

Come on BBC, you’ve all been on the course about how it’s best not to lie to your viewers.
It’s not the Pandemic cutting a swathe, it’s the Lockdown.

120546 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tim Bidie, #126 of 1715 🔗

The DBC=Drivel Broadcasting Corporation

120699 ▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to richard riewer, #127 of 1715 🔗

I prefer Bed-wetting, Bullsh**ing, Corporation

119446 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #128 of 1715 🔗

They are deliberately using the worng terms to keep the fear ball rolling. The Bastards.

119401 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #129 of 1715 🔗

This. The opening statement of the infamous model, suggests it is based on influenza. I think going down the route of witch hunts against scientists, is a dangerous path. But there are extreme circumstances such as this, where catastrophic errors need to be accounted for.

119211 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #130 of 1715 🔗

A technical point, Things move on so quickly, I sometimes see a comment on here then try and find it again but cannot. Someone once told me how to do a search but I have forgotten, I would be grateful if someone could remind me (I use a Chromebook Computer).

119216 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #131 of 1715 🔗

I find I can only do it on a laptop, then you open comments, wait a while for it to fully download, then use the three little dots in top RHS of browser and use the find function. It doesn’t always work.
It’s annoying as I am always looking for stuff! now when I see something interesting i copy and paste it directly into the notes on my ipad.

119223 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #132 of 1715 🔗

I just use CTRL + f on my chromebook, if that helps.

119225 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Miss Owl, #133 of 1715 🔗

Yes, thankyou

120702 ▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Miss Owl, #134 of 1715 🔗

ctrl+f should work in all browsers on all laptop and desktop operating systems, very common shortcut

119296 ▶▶ MRG, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #135 of 1715 🔗

try control plus the “f” key to search – it should produce a box you can type your search text into

119399 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to MRG, #136 of 1715 🔗

Or the three dots top right corner, gets you there. I can never remember those ‘ctrl’ commands. Often lots of ‘scrolling down’ needed to load everything.

119499 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, #137 of 1715 🔗

Could try closing the replies if the comment you want is an opening one.

120548 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Steve Martindale, #138 of 1715 🔗

Copy and paste it in a text editor. I use my PC’s Wordpad.

119215 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #139 of 1715 🔗

My mission to keep Britain free, by Simon Dolan
The Conservative Woman September 7, 2020
https://conservativewoman.co.uk/my-mission-to-keep-britain-free-by-simon-dolan/

Kathy Gyngell interviewed Simon Dolan over the weekend about his one-man battle for Britain’s freedom from the illegal lockdown imposed by this government. She began by asking him what drove him to this action.

Kathy Gyngell: You started legal proceedings on May 1 to challenge the Government’s lockdown decision. Why, and why you?

Simon Dolan: The measures imposed by the UK Government in March were the most draconian in living history, instantly making life unrecognisable from what the British public once knew. Within weeks the devastating effect lockdown would have on the economy and the livelihoods of thousands of people was clear, and the longer it went on, the more outraged I became. It is now widely recognised that lockdown has sentenced tens of thousands to death, millions of children have and continue to be deprived of an education, the economy has been left in ruins and we are experiencing the largest fall in employment in generations. All this due to measures the Government chose to take. I do not believe these measures were legal – they were completely disproportionate to the problem and to me it was terrifyingly obvious that the Government needed to be challenged. So I set out to determine whether lockdown was in fact lawful, who took the decision and what data and information was used to arrive at it.

K G: You have raised over £200,000 to fund this challenge from ordinary people. What about business backers? Have there been any? Do you feel a lone figure?

S D: I’ve been blown away by the level of public support – we’ve now raised over £250,000 from more than 8,200 individuals and rising. The ongoing success of the campaign shows that I am in no way a lone figure. Thousands share my belief that the Government’s lockdown measures are the most serious imposition on personal freedoms in recent history. So much so that they have given their hard-earned money to do what they can to ensure lockdown never happens again.

K G: Why do you think the business world – which is set to be pulverised in so many sectors by the government’s heavy-handed and draconian Covid response – has been so docile? So slow to dissent? What are they scared of?

S D: When lockdown was announced the Government was quick to promise support packages for businesses of all sizes. So far over £11billion has been given out to small and medium-sized businesses across the board. It’s disappointing that so many businesses have chosen to accept these hand-outs and stay quiet, but at the same time I understand that no one wants to bite the hand that feeds them. For businesses worried about staying afloat, denouncing those who have the power to bail them out could feel like a rash move.

119220 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #140 of 1715 🔗

My mission to keep Britain free, by Simon Dolan – Continued
The Conservative Woman September 7, 2020

K G: What is the current position on your appeal?

S D: I started proceedings for the judicial review in April, appointing a legal team to amass evidence against the legality of lockdown. We gathered 1,200 pages of evidence and our case was heard by a High Court judge over video link on July 2. The case was denied, as the judge came to the decision that Parliament has the power to do what it wants. In no way did the judgement engage with, or consider on any analytical level, the vital issues we set out in the case. Nor did it take into account the impact all this has had on ordinary people. So we put in for an appeal straight away. This was heard by Lord Justice Hickinbottom, who agreed that the lockdown measures are the most draconian in living history and that our case raises important points on the relationships between politicians, lawyers and the judiciary. It was decided that a rolled-up hearing would be held at the Court of Appeal at the end of this month and we are awaiting a date.

K G: Are you optimistic at all regarding the further hearing?

S D:The response from the second judge was certainly more promising, but it’s impossible to predict what will happen on the day. I do believe that as time goes on and the devastating impact of lockdown becomes increasingly clear, so the significance and strength of the case grows.

K G: Do you think ordinary people understand how important your challenges are for our country’s economic and social future? Are they sufficiently aware of what will happen to them if the economy does not get back into full gear sharpish?

S D: Yes. I don’t believe there are many people who would argue that lockdown has saved lives. Evidence is fast amassing which shows an inverse correlation between the strictness of lockdowns and the number of people dying. Just look at Peru, which had the longest, most severe lockdown and now has one of the highest death tolls on Earth. As reports of the disastrous effects of lockdowns increase, whether it’s deaths from missed hospital appointments, suicides or unemployment and poverty, the consensus is definitely turning. At first we were a minority but now it’s impossible to deny that lockdown was a catastrophic mistake. With hundreds of thousands out of a job, who could deny that a swift return to normality is needed to rebuild the economy and restore livelihoods?

K G: Do you worry about the level of government propaganda used to win compliance?

S D: Yes, the Government’s messaging carries a huge part of the blame. The ‘Stay Home, Save Lives, Protect the NHS’ mantra was taken too far, drilled into the public’s minds to the point where people were too afraid to step outside of their homes. This collective mentality prevails and will continue to prevent any kind of normality from resuming. The way the Government used this messaging to influence the mindset and behaviour of millions was nothing short of shocking.

K G: What is your worst fear if your appeals are refused? Do you think at least they will have any moderating impact on government policy?

S D: We must be able to hold the Government to account for its actions. If the appeal is refused, we will have been denied the right to question the actions of our leaders and to determine whether they are right and legal. That will be a scary moment for me and for anyone who believes in freedom and democracy.

K G: What do you still need by way of support?

S D: Every show of support makes a huge difference. Whether it’s a monetary donation to the Crowdjustice appeal, an interaction on social media or attendance at an anti-mask protest, our strength is shown in numbers. The more people we can bring together, the stronger we will seem and so the risk of further lockdowns will decrease.

K G: We recently argued on The Conservative Woman that Gordon Brown took ten years to wreck the economy but Johnson’s done it in six months. Do you agree?

S D: Yes, in just six months Johnson has managed to throw the economy off the cliff edge. The UK has crashed into its deepest recession in history because the PM panicked. The Government’s crisis response has been characterised by U-turn after U-turn, with our leaders repeatedly bending to public opinion rather than choosing what’s best for the UK and the economy. It’s been embarrassing. Recovery will be long and hard, largely because the Government has terrified the nation into being work-shy. It will be years before normality returns and companies can say ‘business as usual.’

You can donate to Simon Dolan’s campaign here. https://www.keepbritainfree.com/

119233 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #141 of 1715 🔗

I would make one correction the the last section about bending to public opinion, and add perceived public opinion, by very skewed polls usually of about 2000 people. Pity they hadn’t had a peak at the comments here.

119311 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Nsklent, 3, #142 of 1715 🔗

Or the comments in The Telegraph and The Mail. Love it or loathe it The Mail has a much the largest readership of any MSM publication

120708 ▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Strange Days, #143 of 1715 🔗

Regrettably* it doesn’t, that “honour” goes to The Sun, and depending how you define “publication”, the BedwettingBullsh**ingCorporation (BBC).

*I say this having always hated the Mal before, but now being very glad to see that it has the sense to host some anti-lockdown articles, today I find the Mail much better than the Guardian (which I favoured in a distant pre-coronapanic age)

119254 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 12, #144 of 1715 🔗

Gordon Brown lives near me in a massive ten bedroom house with a huge garden and lives as a millionaire. He has never had a proper job and for the life of me i can’t work out how he could have made so much money. It’s as if he was bought off like Blair. Everyone round our way knows about Brown and knows why he did what he did to keep the story quiet, off course the money helps but the silence is golden.

119872 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Biker, 2, #145 of 1715 🔗

Doesn’t he get paid massive amounts for making occasional boring speeches to audiences of bigwigs? (though presumably that’s not happening at present).

120470 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Edward, #146 of 1715 🔗

Like Obama.

119270 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #147 of 1715 🔗

Thank you Stephen. I might not have got around to reading that if you hadn’t posted it.

It’s interesting that Simon Dolan thinks that not many people think that lockdown has saved lives. That’s not my experience, I know quite a few who think we should have locked down earlier and saved even more lives.

119505 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Alison9, 3, #148 of 1715 🔗

Suggest to them like Belgium and Peru?

119221 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #149 of 1715 🔗

From the Heneghan piece:

The patient has become a prisoner of a system labelling him or her as ‘positive’ when we are not sure what that label means. Physicians have been completely bypassed in the biotech decision making machine that now makes and reports the diagnosis.

That is such a good point. In fact we (with independent thought) can sense that our entire lives are now controlled by dumb ‘systems’ and their attendant technicians. And the media have become just another part of the machine, too.

119232 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #150 of 1715 🔗

Exactly. It’s another aspect of the de-humanisation of everything – that ‘systems’ *know* better and that artificial intelligence surpasses our own. Well, that’s not a world I want to live in.

I was thinking about this the other day. Our entire lives are bloody managed by machines. I can’t even open my ruddy washing machine until *it* has deeed it ‘safe’ for me to do so. My (now confined to a drawer) so-called ‘smart’ thermostat overrides me in order to bossy-boots me into being more ‘green’ Well, it’s overridden me once too often, now getting a bog standard dial thermostat.

119529 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 4, #151 of 1715 🔗

You might like Matthew Crawford’s latest book, kh, which was linked here a while back:
Why We Drive: On Freedom, Risk and Taking Back Control

119632 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 2, #152 of 1715 🔗

Thanks for the recommendation Mark, I’ll give it a look. Nice to see you back kh

119647 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 2, #153 of 1715 🔗

Cheers, kh, was away for a week on a family holiday. Still no sign of farinances, it seems. Did she give a farewell or just vanish, did you notice?

119662 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 5, #154 of 1715 🔗

I was thinking of her yesterday … miss her contributions. I’ve been off for a bit so perhaps she did and I didn’t see ….

119722 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 3, #155 of 1715 🔗

Yes, she could be very ..pungent, when she wanted to, and made some great comments. I last remember seeing her here around the time you were having internet problems at home iirc.

120030 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 4, #156 of 1715 🔗

I’ve missed her ascerbic wit and astute comments.

120028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 4, #157 of 1715 🔗

I was hoping it’s because she’s in Greece with her family.

120574 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #158 of 1715 🔗

It’s been couple of weeks. I miss her too!

119352 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Barney McGrew, 27, #159 of 1715 🔗

I don’t think people quite grasp the magnitude of the change in our lives since March 2020.

Until March, we were all 100% free and responsible for our own health and wellbeing. If you got sick it was entirely up to you how you responded and dealt with it. You could stay home, you could try to push through it, if you needed treatment it was ultimately up to you whether you wanted to go through with it.

Since March, that freedom has been taken from us. Now if you get sick, it is no longer your decision or choice. It is the state’s. You will do as the state says. The vaccine will be the culmination of that new process. The precedent will be set and from henceforth, if the state declares a disease a national emergency it will tell you what you have to do, submit you to whatever measures it deems necessary “to protect society” including vaccinating you.

Much like livestock.

119391 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to stewart, 5, #160 of 1715 🔗

I saw one article that concluded that it was the existence of the NHS that made this inevitable. Because we all own the NHS supposedly, it justifies wider society (in the form of the government) imposing its will regarding our own health on us.

I like that as an argument. It reveals a built-in self-destruct mechanism once you go down the route of ‘socialism’; the inevitable imposition of, well, fascism at some point in the future no matter how benign your shared resource appears to start with.

119436 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #161 of 1715 🔗

Seemed to work ok for 70 years, no? Doesn’t it depend on the constraints society wants to put on state authority?

119527 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stewart, 4, #162 of 1715 🔗

Depends what you mean by “work”. What it does is change the basic structure of the debate around what limits “society” wants to put on state authority, in the way Barney described.

Part of the problem is that once a change has been made, unless there’s a prompt disaster attributable to it, most people obviously think the new situation is normal, because they become used to it. Seems no reason not to have made the change, and why were all those people objecting?

In the early C20th it was generally assumed that government has no place running details of people’s own lives for their own supposed protection. Now it’s accepted that seatbelts can be enforced by law, for people’s own good (and the argument that personal injuries are now society’s concern because our taxes pay for the treatment was probably decisive in getting it through – certainly that’s usually the first resort of those defending the law). People have gotten used to it, and mostly can’t understand why there should be an issue over it. but for those who stood against it on principle, their principles have been overridden by force, much as those of us here are faced with having our principles overridden by force on facemasks (though for the moment in a rather half assed way).

119604 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark, 3, #163 of 1715 🔗

Totally agree. And the fundamental problem at the heart of it all is that the right to liberty argument is understood and considered important by only a small part of the population.

119741 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to stewart, 2, #164 of 1715 🔗

I think a lot of people feel “safer” not having to make decisions for themselves, or take responsibility for themselves.

Pathetic wastes of skin that they are.

119552 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 5, #165 of 1715 🔗

The NHS was formed by nationalising existing assets that already provided health care to 90%+ of the population.

My mum, as a newly qualified State Registered Nurse, was proud to be a part of that process whichwas launched on a Tsunami of goodwill from both the staff and patients.

Mum saw the bean counters take over and milk that goodwill to death, she took retirement early because of it and spent 5 years ignoring ‘return to nursing’ begging letters.

Despite Management treating all levels of staff like shite the NHS still only staggers on through their goodwill but if they went on ‘Work To Rule’ it would collapse faster than our confidence in Johnsons fitness to rule.

119513 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 2, #166 of 1715 🔗

As I have said before this was always going to happen when they took us down the path labelled ‘Public Health.

cf the French Revolution and their Committee of Public Safety.

120819 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, #167 of 1715 🔗

Public Health by Stealth.

119226 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #168 of 1715 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54066831 “cases” rising exponentially again

119228 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to p02099003, 5, #169 of 1715 🔗

I am wondering whether we can make a link to the rise in cases on the testing of school children. The local schools here have a policy, which I think is based on government advice, that if any child has any symptons, which could literally be a sneeze, they must go home and must have a test. As we know these tests are designed as a diagnostic tool and should not be used for screening, potentially unreliable as they pick up any strands of genetical material, so more young people being tested combined with more false positives. But then, they will have their second wave. We even have the UN spouting this to be an opportunity for embracing equality and inclusiveness.

119362 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nsklent, 7, #170 of 1715 🔗

Just saw this rather worrying post on Twitter showing the attitude of some schools:
I just hauled my son out, little over 30 mins of him arriving for 1st day back. I advised mask exemption due to distress. Deputy head told him ‘school decides exemptions’ that masks are ‘not about him’ and without one he would have to be escorted around school. I cant allow it’

120561 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, #171 of 1715 🔗

Treating children like convicts in a prison yard. Beyond absurd. Criminal.

119381 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nsklent, 2, #172 of 1715 🔗

An acquaintance has a child with a high temperature. They’ve been told they must get a test before child and siblings can return to school. Nearest test centre – 100 miles away.

119568 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Julian, 2, #173 of 1715 🔗

How does that work if you are a single parent on benefits then? Utter madness.

119767 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DressageRider, 1, #174 of 1715 🔗

Spend hours in a car with sick children. Genius.

120047 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 2, #175 of 1715 🔗

Assuming you have a car!

120455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #176 of 1715 🔗

They ended up going to local test centre, on spec – empty!

119439 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Nsklent, 2, #177 of 1715 🔗

Three of our local school have children who have tested positive. Those children had in fact never returned after the holiday, so why were they tested. Other children who had been with the out of school have been asked to isolate but the schools remain open. It seems 9 positive tests in our town yesterday after a long time with none.

119285 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to p02099003, 4, #178 of 1715 🔗

Climate Change all over again.

119305 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to p02099003, 6, #179 of 1715 🔗

2988 Sunday, 2948 Monday . That is not an exponential rise. And from a professor and from a Sage member. What hope is there?

119655 ▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to p02099003, 4, #180 of 1715 🔗

Yet none of the other main news websites lead with this today (not even The Guardian). Most have turned their focus (rightly, in my view) back to Brexit.
Couldn’t help but notice that under the BBC’s scamdemic headline this morning, further down the billing, was an article about the 300,000 redunancies that businesses began planning in June and July. Wonder why they didn’t lead with that, since it will affect 300,000 people, not just a few hundred at worst.

119498 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to hotrod, 5, #182 of 1715 🔗

I’m not sure a compulsory testing regime is particular “positive”; it’s just the latest evolution of the carrot-and-stick game.

See for example the recent stories floated about testing at airports (your way out of random quarantine pain, airlines will even push for it), 24-hour-valid tests to get into theatres (your way out of the cultural desert, artist will even push for it), the test-on-exit strategy of Rome (why can’t we do it like Rome, maybe even between individual cities, city councils will even push for it), and so on.

It ultimately all still resolves to the justification for a system of societal gateways and behavioural constraints linked to a scoring system, to be enabled by the comprehensive and centralised surveillance of all individuals. The general format of the “solution” has remained consistent throughout, even as the arguments for it have shifted relentlessly as each (ad hoc, disingenuous) justification crumbles and is forgotten.

119500 ▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Arkansas, 4, #183 of 1715 🔗

I have never shown any Covid-19 symptoms, but because of the nature of my work, I am tested three times a week. Regular testing needs to become the norm for most of the population – and I have no doubt it will .

“This is the plan and I am selling it to you right now.”

120071 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Arkansas, #184 of 1715 🔗

Exactly!

119757 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to hotrod, #185 of 1715 🔗

starts off sensible, but then goes down the compulsory testing route. Despite PCR being useless as screening tool.

120072 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sophie123, #186 of 1715 🔗

It’s the “gold standard” according to the prof!

120070 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 2, #187 of 1715 🔗

He says, rightly: Now we need to get more people back on public transport, and into offices, back into coffee shops and sandwich bars and shopping malls.
We need to claim back our old lives

However, he’s preceded that with some pretty scary language:
The spike in infections reported in the past few days was to be expected as life slowly returns to our streets and workplaces.
They are concerning and, yes, we must be prepared for a second wave of Covid-19

…. As summer turns to autumn, cases will continue to rise and clearly, university towns face potential dangers as thousands of new students

I’m glad he pointed out that: Much of the increase in infections is among the young, who tend to experience moderate or no symptoms. Crucially, we have not yet seen a jump in hospital admissions or deaths.

But he uses the dodgy R number argument and claims that the PCR test is the gold standard!

This is just plain ridiculous: Regular testing needs to become the norm for most of the population – and I have no doubt it will.

Now we get to it: But it will take time to vaccinate larger populations, whole cities for example, so we need flexible testing in place too.

A very mixed message from someone who really ought to know better!

119231 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #188 of 1715 🔗

The Welsh Deputy Dictator, and Minister for the unhealthy has announced a new term of internal exile for the the residents of Caerphilly

Apparently the second wave of the virus is rampant amongst the cheese makers

He has further announced that a spike in deaths will occur in “two to three weeks”

This is concerning as I know how much they like to hit targets.

In my opinion the only way the required additional deaths can be achieved is if the dictatorship poisons the water supply, or starts abducting and executing it’s own citizens

119247 ▶▶ court, replying to Cecil B, 4, #189 of 1715 🔗

I think we know the answer, it’s their way of forcing masks inside without making it look like a U-turn. Give it a few days…

119292 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Cecil B, 11, #190 of 1715 🔗

Continue withholding medical treatment, destroying peoples livelihoods, terrorising them and eventually the death rate will start to increase.

Of course it may not rise quickly enough for these psychopaths and now that we have established the the government can tell any lie, commit any outrage with complete immunity to consequences it does make you wonder what they will do to us next.

120569 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Saved To Death, #191 of 1715 🔗

Continue withholding medical treatment…

How are they getting away with that? Where are the human rights experts on this?

119302 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Cecil B, 8, #192 of 1715 🔗

Bill Gates did say “they will notice the next one” (a second virus)

120572 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Kate, #193 of 1715 🔗

This is for Bill & Melinda:
comment image

119310 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Cecil B, 3, #194 of 1715 🔗

And when the end of the world doesn’t happen in two to three weeks, the prophet of doom will revise the date.

119621 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to arfurmo, 2, #195 of 1715 🔗

Is anyone still alive in Leicester?

119557 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 2, #196 of 1715 🔗

I have some caerphilly in the larder, should I tell The Council ?

119569 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to karenovirus, 6, #197 of 1715 🔗

Yes, then take it to the local disposal facility wrapped in 2 layers (please consult council website for details of permitted materials). An operative will meet you at the gate and escort you, socially distanced, to a secure environment where you may place the item. You will then be escorted back to the gate. Please do not engage in conversation with the operative, or sing, or attempt to shake hands.
Stay safe, stay alert.

120850 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, 1, #198 of 1715 🔗

I would be very caerphil if I were you.

120564 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cecil B, #199 of 1715 🔗

No more double Gloucester.

120723 ▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Cecil B, #200 of 1715 🔗

If the welsh state does not use genocide to manufacture the death sike they lust for then they’re going to have a rude awakening when it DOES NOT COME. We’ve seen cases rising a fair bit throughout summer, but no spiking of deaths, that isn’t going to change even if spikes get bigger and even if there are spikes caused by an increase in spread rather than increased testing.

119283 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tom Blackburn, 13, #202 of 1715 🔗

We are well beyond ‘huge mistake’ at this point.

119237 Biker, replying to Biker, 16, #203 of 1715 🔗

Disney is evil. They pump out social justice propaganda, encourage sodomy and perversion and is designed to destroy the mind of your children. Walt must be turning in his grave, that man called a dwarf a dwarf.

119252 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Biker, -4, #204 of 1715 🔗

I’m not sure why you think that it acceptable to use that kind of bullshit and offensive crap. This is supposed to be about Coronabollocks and where it is leading, Not about how you personally want to decide people’s sexuality. Please just go away.

119264 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to TheBluePill, 9, #205 of 1715 🔗

I said it so it would expose people like you. We can say what the fuck we want and that is the point. You’ve exposed yourself for a censor. What gives a nonentity like you the right to stop me saying any god damn thing i like? I wouldn’t stop anyone reading the piss poor post you made. So pal fuck off you utter cunt.

119280 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Biker, -5, #206 of 1715 🔗

I will not be feeding the troll any further.

119308 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #207 of 1715 🔗

good, cause one, i’ve been here from day one and i’m no troll and two that’s what a lefty does, they just can’t deal with anyone who doesn’t do what they want so they put their podgy faggy fingers in their ears and go la la la la. You do this no matter what someone says who you “disagree” with. You’re exactly the problem
You should go to Disney Land

119541 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to TheBluePill, 7, #208 of 1715 🔗

Not about how you personally want to decide people’s sexuality. Please just go away .”

If you disagree with biker’s implicit opinion on sodomy and perversion (which seems a reasonable inference from your response), you have two legitimate responses available to you, and one illegitimate one, given that the owner of this blog has set no limits to the topics that can be raised here.

1 You can choose to ignore his expressed opinion.

2 You can choose to debate his opinion.

These are the only acceptable responses in a civilised and tolerant society.

If you choose the route of intolerance (which is what you did in this case), you can choose the third option:

3 Try to silence his expression of his opinion.

You probably ought to reflect on this and why you thought this intolerance of dissent on your part seemed acceptable to you, because you are far from alone in resorting to it. Indeed, your approach of intolerance of dissent is arguably the majority one in our modern society, and that’s a real problem, to which you are evidently contributing.

119383 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Biker, 1, #209 of 1715 🔗

What if he called them midgets?

119634 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #210 of 1715 🔗

Funnily enough there was an item on Woman’s Hour today about Dwarfism the managed to bring coronobollox into that too.

119560 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Biker, 4, #211 of 1715 🔗

Well guys and girls, message received, assuming that the troll hasn’t up-ticked himself ten times I’ll be following Biker’s advice and fucking-off from these forums.
Obviously some of you have become so hateful (understandable given the pressure we are under) that you think it acceptable to use phrases like “faggy fingers” and choose to attack Disney not based upon its disgraceful credentials but based on “encouraging sodomy”. Honestly it’s as bad as the fascists that we are supposed to opposing. I suggest you redirect your hate towards the criminals Hancock and Johnson.
I’ll continue visiting the news section of course and will continue financially supporting Toby. I’ll miss peoples’ amazing contributions to this such as the excellent data from Swedenborg and the positivity from Poppy. It is nice to have an affinity with similar people, it is a shame that it has now been spoiled by bigots. Once they have alienated all the reasonable people they can consume themselves. Cheerio.

119575 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #212 of 1715 🔗

Just to clarify this situation. You have chosen to exclude yourself, because you were incapable of tolerating the expression of opinions you dislike, in terms you dislike.

That’s absolutely your prerogative.

(Though I can’t help but add that “it’s as bad as the fascists that we are supposed to opposing” is pretty embarrassing on your part. Biker expressed an opinion, which you are free to ignore or disagree with. He isn’t making laws to control your behaviour, or trashing the economy, culture, and society of the nation. A sense of proportion failure here, I think.)

119672 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #213 of 1715 🔗

Well, I suppose if I found a large majority of posts here offensive, or stupid, or uninteresting, I suppose I would be tempted to stop looking.

But there’s enough here for me to keep coming. I just ignore stuff that doesn’t interest me, and either debate or ignore stuff I don’t agree with depending on the person involved and how I feel.

120293 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #214 of 1715 🔗

Baby please don’t go, i’ll miss you. I’ll let you into a little secret, i don’t dislike Gays in any way shape or form and fully respect the right of any individual to stick their genitals anywhere they please save children, i also support their right to get married and have very single protection under the law as i do, i even think children should be told about gays in sex education. But if i choose to consider them sodomites then that’s up to me. You lefty fucks need to listen close because i’m sick to my fuckin back teeth of being censored by snivelling tossers like you. Don’t you understand that one day it will be you that is censored and i won’t be around to say let the blue pill say what the fuck he wants, it might be total pish but god damn let him speak it.

120396 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #215 of 1715 🔗

You’re right when you say there are loads of amazing contributions on here – I never cease to be amazed at the scale and scope of what’s posted on here.

120583 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, #216 of 1715 🔗

I grew up with the Mickey Mouse Club and Annette Funicello. M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E.

120776 ▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Biker, #217 of 1715 🔗

Never mind sodomy, if consenting people want to f*ck each other I’m happy to let them. But I’m against civil liberties and the economy being f*cked by lockdown.

120778 ▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Biker, #218 of 1715 🔗

…And lockdown is f*cking all those things without our consent.

119242 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 8, #219 of 1715 🔗

More covid porn from the BBC

Two of the UK government’s scientific advisers have given stark warnings over the increase in coronavirus cases.
Prof John Edmunds, a member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), said cases were now “increasing exponentially”.
And England’s deputy chief medical officer, Prof Jonathan Van Tam, said people had “relaxed too much” and must start taking the virus seriously again.

119245 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Cecil B, 9, #220 of 1715 🔗

Any mention that hospital admissions and mortality figures were flat lining? Just a little nod no more?

Twice now I’ve heard it said whilst the number of cases is going up it has not happened with figures for hospital admissions and mortality. No, it hasn’t they’ve been going down.

119250 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 7, #221 of 1715 🔗

A lot is being staked by these advisors on the number of deaths increasing. They are so low now it is about the only way they can go. They should really be asked to put a number on it.

What would it be if their suggestions weren’t followed? What is the most t could be if they are?

119269 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Ned of the Hills, 15, #222 of 1715 🔗

I am quite prepared to believe that we will see an increase in deaths of older people who happen to test positive (putting aside that that in itself is meaningless at the moment). More vulnerable people depart this world during Winter. There has still been no explanation of how that justifies ongoing destruction of our collective future and a dogged commitment to ignoring death and misery from every other cause. I have no idea how so many individuals in power have failed to understand what makes us human and what makes life worth living

119983 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #223 of 1715 🔗

All of 3 yesterday according to R2 Jeremy Vine show, it would only take a small batch of mislaid fatalities to produce

“Shock as Covid Deaths Double Overnight ! ! “.

119248 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Cecil B, 19, #224 of 1715 🔗

“relaxed”? no one is relaxed about this bullshit. I despise these people. Are they enjoying the destruction of our lives? What do they think they are saving? When are they gonna stop? And when are we gonna do something other than make posts on a website? When are we gonna burn these motherfuckers to the ground? How come the lefty wankers are rioting about fake shite like racism and not rioting about this lockdown?

119408 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Biker, 21, #225 of 1715 🔗

I have to agree with you..I fucking bled for this country ( 2 tours in Afghanistan) only to see all that my brothers and I have fought and died for going down the toilet. We are a step away from what France is and if that happens fine they will just have to arrest me as I’m not fucking wearing a piece of cloth to virtue signal to the public that I have been beaten down by the people in power.
”I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees”

120295 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #226 of 1715 🔗

Good on you bro, i spent many a year in bilges fixing submarines and minesweepers to help defend our nation and we have a bunch of fuckers in charge who hate us, claim we’re all evil and everything we have is built on the back of slaves. We are the greatest nation to have ever been and it’s about fucking time we stood up again and proved it.

120785 ▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Biker, #227 of 1715 🔗

Pretty soon we’ll BE the slaves upon whose backs stuff gets built, ensuring NEVER AGAIN to lockdown is the only way to stop that.

119309 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Cecil B, 20, #228 of 1715 🔗

They are using coronavirus to bring in a police state . I think we need to move away from discussing the medical side of all this now, as the underlying political goal of track and trace and removal of rights is emerging so clearly now.

119760 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Kate, 2, #229 of 1715 🔗

I think you are right – we can moan all we want about the insanity, the stupidity, the incompetence, the arrogance or the impropriety of the way the politicians are handling the virus but we are just being distracted while tyranny tightens its grip.

120595 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Kate, #230 of 1715 🔗

I agree with you Kate. The government’s lies and deception are being exposed nearly every day. They could care less, they are not on our side. Time to revolt.

119344 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cecil B, 14, #231 of 1715 🔗

The problem is, the cat is now out of the bag. I’ve had two conversations with people in the last week, who had become housebound with fear and I was convinced they would be lost causes. In both cases, I couldn’t get a word in, as I was bombarded by “it’s deaths with, not from ” etc.
While the masks are everywhere, I think they’re hiding the massive level of scepticism in the community. People like Van Tam are so wrapped in their self important world, that they’ve not noticed the sea change. People haven’t relaxed, they just know they’ve been had.

120007 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #232 of 1715 🔗

I agree, almost every conversation I have now is about how much nonsense it all is, with two provisos; 1) skepticism is most prevalent among working blokes;
2) I tend to avoid talking to people in face nappies, sometimes they make me feel sad, other times I want to laugh but that would be rude.

119246 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 7, #233 of 1715 🔗

Latest HSE Covid-19 report is a BOMBSHELL:

Total number of deaths with no underlying conditions in Ireland = 100

https://twitter.com/Credalytics/status/1303100491828809728

119253 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to 2 pence, 6, #234 of 1715 🔗

5.6% of the official 1,777 total for the Republic.

119877 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #235 of 1715 🔗

Surprisingly similar to the US’s 6%. Who’d have thought it!

119251 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #236 of 1715 🔗

That postcard from Disneyland Paris is depressing. I was glad I went to Disneyland years ago when sanity prevailed.

This is an example of how amusement parks and heritage sites will go under if they don’t fight back – people will vote with their feet and wallets and go Never Again.

Is that what they want?

119259 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #237 of 1715 🔗

I want to see state-run amusement parks. I really want to see it.

119266 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #238 of 1715 🔗

It would be interesting to see what they will look like.

119289 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #239 of 1715 🔗

On this site we could design one.
My first idea was a good old fashioned ‘House of Horrors’.

119389 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, 1, #240 of 1715 🔗

Oh yeah and various rides and experiences to go along with the whole horror show.

120600 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #241 of 1715 🔗

You’re living in one right now.

120791 ▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Bart Simpson, #242 of 1715 🔗

The Soviet Union would give you examples to look at. Pripyat (near chernobyl) in Ukraine has a well preserved one, and although the radiation level in the town area is safely low nowadays, it is still much more dangerous than covid.

119356 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #243 of 1715 🔗

I don’t understand why the state stepping in would even be on the table and why we would think this is a way to save the park. If the state steps in the reason will be to bail out vested interests and/or creditors and it will actually prevent the assets of the park from being properly priced and hinder not help its long term survival.

Allow the park to go bankrupt on the other hand and the assets will have to be sold at a price at which there is an actual buyer, a buyer who in theory has decided what they are actually worth in the present circumstances increasing the possibility of the business being operated in a long term viable way.

119273 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #244 of 1715 🔗

Sounds like an abomination, pity everyone doesn’t say at the entrance, forget it and walk away, that usually works.

119277 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #245 of 1715 🔗

It is an abomination and bizarre how people have simply keeled over without a murmur of protest.

120090 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, #246 of 1715 🔗

Paid upfront!

119256 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 21, #247 of 1715 🔗

A big issue going forward is authenticity from any politician, business, speaker, etc who supported the lockdown.

How will they talk about rights, freedoms and anything to do with justice when they were collaborators?

I don’t care what excuses are made. We did not need to do this. And even if the effect was small for many, your rights were trampled on. The very heart of why you live in this country was trampled on. And the irony: it wasn’t down by aristocracy or a regent.

It was done by democratically elected people.

I suspect there will be an extension of the Covid bill and powers because why not? Once you’ve tasted the drug it’s hard to get off it.

Any smart politician will get back to normal as quickly as. Then resign.

119261 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to mhcp, 9, #248 of 1715 🔗

The “exponential” increase reported by the BBC will be the justification in a fortnights time to extend the powers for at least 6 months.

119271 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to p02099003, 9, #249 of 1715 🔗

That ““exponential” increase” will need to be backed by some sort of increase in mortality figures in a fortnight’s time to justify the renewing of the “Enabling Act”.

So the experts, the advisors and politicians should be held to putting a figure on it now.

119276 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Ned of the Hills, 11, #250 of 1715 🔗

Also, we need to keep asking them for the medical dictionary definition of a “case”. And make them use the term “positive swab” instead.

119331 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #251 of 1715 🔗

Yrs, a distinction needs to be made i.e. case equals requires medical intervention, and more than a paracetamol.

119263 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to mhcp, 3, #253 of 1715 🔗

And even if the effect was small for many

It hasn’t even started yet. Even if they reversed all the measures tomorrow, the effect would not be small…

119265 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #254 of 1715 🔗

I was referring to during the lockdown itself. As in you might not have been that inconvenienced. Others though? A lot

119340 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to mhcp, 7, #255 of 1715 🔗

We cannot begin to heal until collaborators are on trial.

119878 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to mhcp, 1, #256 of 1715 🔗

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

119257 Andy, replying to Andy, 26, #257 of 1715 🔗

This is my first time posting here and would like to offer some hope. I have just spent the night in my local maternity hospital and they were very easy going about face nappies.

Although the staff all wore masks some were nose free and one had it hanging off her ear walking through the corridor.

I was even more shocked when they moved my wife into the theater and dressed me for the part including hairnet (not got much) but no mask, even took a photo of me and baby in there.

I won’t name the hospital because I do not want to get the staff in any trouble but it is in southern England.

There may be hope for the NHS yet.

119405 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Andy, 7, #258 of 1715 🔗

Welcome to the world of sanity – sort of. And congratulations! Hope mum and baby are doing well.

119432 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Andy, 5, #259 of 1715 🔗

Congratulations and well done to the staff for treating you and your family as decent human beings.

Welcome to this oasis of sanity.

119479 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Andy, 6, #260 of 1715 🔗

The NHS have downgraded the need for PPE in various procedures. Essentially it’s returning to normal now. Funny how that isn’t being reflected in the public.

119525 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Andy, 4, #261 of 1715 🔗

That’s so good to hear. Hope my daughter’s hospital regains their sanity before her baby is due.

119880 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Andy, 2, #262 of 1715 🔗

Thanks for the post. Great to hear. Big congratulations. Life goes on.

119963 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Andy, 3, #263 of 1715 🔗

Welcome and congrats! I’ve seen a few celebs who have had babies recently recount how they spent 20+ hours in labour wearing a mask. Appalling! I can’t wear one for 2 minutes. So glad to hear that at least one hospital isn’t torturing labouring women!

120025 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Andy, 1, #264 of 1715 🔗

Welcome Andy, pleased to hear that you did not face some of the horrors we have read about here.
One poor chap had to wait outside maternity in his car.
I wonder at what level of NHS management is the decision made to relax rules or make them more draconian?

120604 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Andy, #265 of 1715 🔗

It depends on who’s running the show.

120797 ▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Andy, #266 of 1715 🔗

I understand why you can’t name the hospital, but I wish there was a forum for lockdown sceptics to which only genuine sceptics have access. Somewhere that we can be sure busybodies are not watching us. Somewhere that lockdown sceptics could set up a community of our own, an independent state within Britain, knowing which businesses you could given your patronage too and be assured of no coronaphobic bollocks in the process, knowing where jobs are going which are only willing to hire anti-lockdownists, knowing which hospitals are performing actual treatments as opposed to performing dances for online videos, ensuring we can live under our laws, not HandyCock’s.

119258 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 18, #267 of 1715 🔗

Another boost for positivity here:

A friend of mine who should have claimed exemption from the word go has ordered her exemption lanyards. She has been complaining of headaches, bad sinuses and chest infections for awhile now.

I have been telling her to ditch the muzzles, get an exemption lanyard and just go barefaced and looks like my message has come across.

Result!

119267 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #268 of 1715 🔗

Yes, but as the price, she has to wear a symbol that literally says “Keep your distance from me”, and indirectly says “Have a good look at me. Can you guess my medical conditions? Or am I just lying to avoid wearing a mask?”

119275 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #269 of 1715 🔗

True however it is a first step. She wore muzzles because she didn’t want confrontation but the price has been her condition has worsened.

119348 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #270 of 1715 🔗

The one positive is that when other people see that non-mask-wearers are ‘not* dropping like flies, they may start to question why they themselves need to wear them..

119363 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, 8, #271 of 1715 🔗

You are missing the genius of the propaganda.Their mask protects you.You are a selfish physcopath for not wearing one and are putting them at risk.

119515 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #272 of 1715 🔗

I’m coming to the conclusion I am a psychopath , because I no longer care.

119260 Ned of the Hills, 55, #273 of 1715 🔗

I’m not a granny – but I’m older than a lot of grannies. And my own advice to youngsters yea, even young adults, wouldn’t be Matt Hancock’s it would be:-

Do what you bloody like, your lives have been blighted enough by this carry on. My generation has had a very good whack, thank you very much. And it’s us that should be making the sacrifices if there is any to be made.

119262 Ovis, replying to Ovis, 33, #274 of 1715 🔗

One conclusion we can already draw from the great covid experiment: if we ever do face ‘the big one,’ a really contagious and deadly disease, there will be nothing to do but prepare for death.

Nothing the state has done, not a single measure, can be credited with any impact on the spread of covid – except to accelerate the spread to vulnerable groups and worsen the impacts. Maybe this is why Devi et al. are frit. We have seen the efficacy of what they are selling.

119272 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Ovis, 6, #275 of 1715 🔗

It is just that. it’s the ultimate call. They went all in and had nothing but a random hand.

119727 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Ovis, 1, #276 of 1715 🔗

Ha, so true. At least I won’t have to suffer through their attempts at stopping it if it is really deadly..

119884 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Ovis, 3, #277 of 1715 🔗

I find that Sweden vs Peru flaws most arguments.

120800 ▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #278 of 1715 🔗

And for that matter Belarus vs Belgium.

119268 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 21, #279 of 1715 🔗

The government need to do an experiment, after banging on about getting the country up and running, remove the compulsory mask THING and see how it comes back to life.

119332 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #280 of 1715 🔗

The government has no intention of permitting things to come back to life. If that is what they see they will take whatever measures are necessary to stamp it out.

119357 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Saved To Death, 13, #281 of 1715 🔗

This can now only be a plot to destroy the economy.No one can be this stupid and cannot see the carnage they are causing,by trying to eradicate a not very dangerous virus.

119359 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 9, #282 of 1715 🔗

It could be that the financial system was about to collapse anyway (I have been waiting for the big collapse since 2008) and they are performing a controlled collapse which will funnel all the wealth to the elites and blame the ensuing devastation on coronavirus.

119406 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Kate, 15, #283 of 1715 🔗

I’ve heard that theory before,it is obvious that an economy cannot function with social distancing measures.The virus is almost gone and is definitely not a major threat so why the reluctance to open up.The government have had many opportunities to roll back but have instead doubled down so it leaves the question.Incomptence just won’t wash anymore,why?

119427 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #284 of 1715 🔗

Deliberate and in pursuance of a predetermined end.

120608 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #285 of 1715 🔗

Almost 6 months. The U.S. might rebound but I doubt the U.K. will.

119274 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 18, #286 of 1715 🔗

Very worried to see the Caerphilly local lockdown in Wales. Wales is an oasis of sanity for us, especially for shops; quick whizz across the Severn and joy, no shop masks. This lunacy is going to be ramped up as winter comes, we’ve all said that. Just what on earth else can we do? I’m in North Somerset, where over 90% of people are obediently wearing their control-gear, it’s like living in an asylum.

119326 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to thedarkhorse, 10, #287 of 1715 🔗

Can we for one, heavily lobby MPs to overturn this corona virus bill at the end of the month to end this rule by decree/diktats which basically renders us under authoritarian rule.

119343 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nsklent, 2, #288 of 1715 🔗

Definitely needs to be done!

119517 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nsklent, 6, #289 of 1715 🔗

Lobbying your MP is an exercise in futility. All the MP’s are just going to back up the bullshit narrative, they don’t want to stand out. The Bastards. I can’t think of ONE MP that is saying anything against the evil that has suffocated the world to death.

119346 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #290 of 1715 🔗

I’m afraid I wasn’t listening to the radio that closely just now – but some bod overseeing the health of Wales gave a figure of 4% in relation to Caerphilly. A 4% positive result from random tests I think he said. I can’t recall if he mentioned the number of tests undertaken. Does anyone recall?

119531 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #291 of 1715 🔗

I read 19 positives from 450 tests. That’s their 4%. County population about 180,000 by the way…

120106 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #292 of 1715 🔗

Again, the numbers don’t match:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases

119490 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #293 of 1715 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54064915 -why the bloody masks? It seems to be the knee jerk reaction despite them not working.

119279 Danny, replying to Danny, 48, #294 of 1715 🔗

The thing that mystifies the most about these zealots is this. If I genuinely believed that a Black Death style, apocalyptic plague was sweeping the world, taking one in ten of us at random, I would be barricaded in my house with enough cans of beans to survive for a year. My child would not go to school. I would not go to work, regardless of the consequences. Life would be my priority.
I would not place a sock over my nose and mouth and get into semantic debates over the angle it would be safe to sit facing somebody at work, or whether 15 minutes in a room was safer than 16 with open windows.
My point is, if I genuinely believed all of that, and the biblical plague was upon us, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t one day look at my family, hiding terrified in our attic like Anne Frank, and say “Disneyland anyone?”.

119288 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Danny, 8, #295 of 1715 🔗

Good point. It is because the hypothesis is unprovable. Wear a mask to stop other people from getting infected. How do you prove it is NOT required?

119293 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to WhyNow, 23, #296 of 1715 🔗

Anyone with any intelligence would realise that at the height of the so called pandemic, no one was told to wear a mask, and here we still are, weeks and weeks later.

119503 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #297 of 1715 🔗

And of course the current rise is entirely due to the wearing of masks spreading infection. Proof that they don’t work. (this aspect never mentioned by the media)

119322 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Danny, 21, #298 of 1715 🔗

Thanks for this point, as it is something I have thought. Yep, if Ebola was out there or an equivalent nasty, no one would have to tell me to social distance, stay indoors, I would voluntarily have the drawbridge up. That’s another aspect of zero critical thinking by the sheeple – we are humans with a brain, and if there was a real risk, we wouldn’t need rules, signs and tape to make us protect ourselves, but then again the public have been infantisised with a risk averse society.

119281 nottingham69, replying to nottingham69, #299 of 1715 🔗

I wouldn’t go to Disney for a teachers pension. Surprised at Toby there. I would expect it is a two tier system in France. The authorities won’t be queuing up to enforce the diktat’s of state in Saint Denis and the like, you are never too far from a ZUS zone in a French city. I think I would rather spend a day there than Disney

119566 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nottingham69, #300 of 1715 🔗

ZUS zone ?

(Do we work for the same acronym-addicted company ? 🙂 )

119284 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 19, #301 of 1715 🔗

i don’t see how this can end soon. There is no possibility of a government choosing to go against the advice of the public health professionals, especially when other countries are not. The health professionals have too much invested in this, but anyway they seem to have moved to a zero-death absolutist position regardless of cost.

I think the vaccine is the political way out. Get a vaccine, even if it is a placebo, and they can back down without losing face. That’s what it is all about now.

119300 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to WhyNow, 3, #302 of 1715 🔗

Yes, I mentioned the possibility of a placebo vaccine some time ago. The issue I see is this: the zealots are going to want to see evidence that the vaccine works, because they really do believe that granny’s life is at stake. This would be a big obstacle in the way of a placebo vaccine.

I suggest this: the government uses the media to ramp up disapproval of the publication of “dangerous misinformation” (e.g. even extending it to real science like Gomes’ and Gupta’s), eventually preventing all public analysis of the vaccine(s) – for our own good. The pharmaceutical companies will obviously be happy to keep their ‘data’ secret, and perhaps the government simply stops testing the population for Covid after the vaccine is administered.

119306 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #303 of 1715 🔗

I believe they will stop testing after mass vaccination also, will keep quiet about death’s just as they did in 2014 and 2017/18.

119327 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to WhyNow, 3, #304 of 1715 🔗

You are right that the political aim is to save face and avoid accountability for the lockdown. But the vaccine does not look like a light at the end of the tunnel.

For good reasons, too few people will voluntarily accept the vaccine to make it credible that the vaccine has defeated covid. So Bojo will be forced into mandatory vaccination, and that opens up a whole new can of shit.

Attacks on G.P. surgeries and/or vaccination centres, followed by curfews to ‘protect the NHS’ in a whole new way. More reliance on policing. A further economic downturn in that context. No, the vaccine does not look like the Hollywood ending, it does not allow Bojo to do his Churchill impression and declare victory.

119334 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Ovis, 6, #305 of 1715 🔗

I think that enough people will take the vaccine voluntarily – I’m guessing 85%. A propaganda campaign is already underway to ensure that ‘anti-vaxxers’ are shunned by society.

119341 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #306 of 1715 🔗

I think not; they will be forced by dint of certain services (benefits?) being linked to having had the vaccine.. Like in Australia, ‘no jab, no pay’…

119400 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Carrie, #307 of 1715 🔗

Well I’m not saying they won’t do that, too. Just that it wouldn’t be necessary.

119891 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #308 of 1715 🔗

This is my better half’s view too. Lets hope that’s the case so the the not stupid enough people to take a rushed untested vaccine will hopefully be able to give it a miss.

119339 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, 5, #309 of 1715 🔗

Just found this link in a comment on a Mercola article: https://ise.media/video/exclusive-covid-vaccine-patent-warned-of-31.html

Apparently Moderna applied for a patent *months* before the pandemic (suspicious?) but they may not actually be able to use their vaccine now due to another company’s application.. the plot thickens..

119565 ▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Carrie, 3, #310 of 1715 🔗

I watched Brian Rose’s interview yesterday with David E Martin, one of the main contributors to the recent “Plandemic: Indoctornation” film (which is absolutely worth watching, and you’ll find it on the London Real website – it’s been deleted from all other social media platforms). David Martin said much the same thing from the patent papertrail, which he’s been following for many years. https://freedomplatform.tv/david-e-martin-exposing-moderna-the-star-of-plandemic-indoctrination-reveals-the-truth/

119475 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to WhyNow, 6, #311 of 1715 🔗

It doesn’t help with the virtue signalling that this is the most unprecendented crisis in current history (or words like that).

Yes it is. It’s self inflicted. It’s the most unprecendented action of self-harm ever done by a government to its country.

Where’s the helpline for that?

119290 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 12, #312 of 1715 🔗

good news from one area of London. Two pubs 50 yards apart re opened a month ago. Both with rigid entry requirements. One has now closed again and the other has relaxed the entry to voluntary writing down of name and number.
There appears to be a pattern of after 3 weeks a scaling down of the security.

119403 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to crimsonpirate, 6, #313 of 1715 🔗

Yes, although a pub closing isn’t immediately obvious as ‘good news’, we don’t want people and businesses to tolerate the ‘new normal’. A pub closing sends a signal, and reduces a local authority’s funding. Hopefully telling TPTB that they need to drop this BS.

120038 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #314 of 1715 🔗

Yes I’ve noticed that, as each sector opens up it goes full on Covid safety crazy and then relaxes I thought more like a month.
I think it’s more to do with keeping the Council inspectors happy rather than a belief in the measures themselves.

119291 Mark, replying to Mark, 3, #315 of 1715 🔗

Debating query. Here’s a point that comes up occasionally in discussion that I have to respond to with a bit of handwaving, because I don’t have the actual numbers to hand.

The point under discussion is the old “flattening the curve” issue of hospital capacity, back in March and April. Did the emergency measures taken prevent NHS overload? My recollection is that capacity was never approached, except perhaps momentarily in particular locations (and there were many stories of empty and unused hospital spaces). But the response is occasionally: “ah yes, but that’s only because of the measures taken to free up and increase capacity”.

Anyone have numbers of ICU beds and usage during the period? The normal ONS data series seems to have been suspended. (Not percentage occupancy, which incorporates capacity expansions, but absolute numbers).

119303 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, 4, #316 of 1715 🔗

we do know that the NHS was going to be swamped with dying covid patients so they build all the Nightingale wards at great expense.. and not one was used .

119317 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, #317 of 1715 🔗

Yes, but that doesn’t help with whether the clearing of normal hospital capacity for anticipated covid cases could be justified.

119351 ▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Mark, #318 of 1715 🔗

No, but it does help with scale.

119394 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 4, #319 of 1715 🔗

Infections peaked before lockdown so I don’t think there was much chance of the NHS being overloaded.They overestimated the threat and virulence of Covid and in the panic or design,have killed many more people through the withdrawal of care.Understandable,never justified

119559 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #320 of 1715 🔗

Infections peaked before lockdown so I don’t think there was much chance of the NHS being overloaded .”

It’s not really a lockdown issue – I don’t recall when exactly the emergency NH measures were introduced, but that’s the key date in this regard.

They overestimated the threat and virulence of Covid and in the panic or design,have killed many more people through the withdrawal of care.Understandable,never justified

This is the point at issue. If the emergency measures imposed freed up enough beds to stop the (dramatically increased) capacity being exceeded, then the panickers could try to argue that the measures at least saved lives. If not, then they can’t. That’s why I’d like to see the numbers.

119345 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to mjr, 3, #321 of 1715 🔗

I think they did it for show! Get the army to build a hospital in 9 days looks impressive(and it was). However if it was based on a scientific model of beds needed to deal with Covid 19 patients, they got it wrong big time!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52125059

120049 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steeve, 1, #322 of 1715 🔗

They earmarked a very large site for our local Nightingale but nothing happened for two months when they scaled it down to a smaller site at another location.
Nothing happened there for a further month before the builders swung into action completing it in 6 weeks, in the 4th month of lockdown.

120114 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #323 of 1715 🔗

That’s some expensive virtue signalling!

119307 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mark, #324 of 1715 🔗

I don’t see how knowing the figures helps the argument though. If it was a flat zero that would just be an indication of how effective the measures were.

119315 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #325 of 1715 🔗

It’s in discussion of whether the NHS emergency measures to increase capacity were, or could be, justified, bearing in mind that they cost lives.

119324 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mark, 1, #326 of 1715 🔗

Ah, yes, I see. Good point. I suppose they’ll just say it was a judgement call and they erred on the side of ‘caution’ – even though we know that the result of that caution is unknowable consequences down the line.

119562 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, #327 of 1715 🔗

Indeed. But that’s why I’d like to see the actual numbers, so I can know how strong the case would be, either way.

119333 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, 1, #328 of 1715 🔗

Can we apply for an FOI regarding this?

119567 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Carrie, #329 of 1715 🔗

I think the ONS series was suspended because central data collection was halted, so I think we’d have to know where to get the original data, and it might involve tedious compilation from multiple sources. Though I suppose the numbers must have been collected for PHE and SAGE use and monitoring. I’m hoping someone has seen the numbers collated and published somewhere.

119687 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #330 of 1715 🔗

You’re right. Initially, preparing hospitals was a reasonable idea, given the misleading information coming via the WHO. In my observation that process was carried out efficiently.

But … as said, infection had taken place before any mitigation was in place, so the peak demand was real, I think. And that peak demand did not generally overstretch to NHS. Staff were underemployed as the peak passed.

This was when it could have been different, with a staged return to normal … but the rest is history, and that history gives rise to the questioning of the motives behind this continual faking of a continuing emergency.

119298 Biker, replying to Biker, 17, #331 of 1715 🔗

None of this is helping. Complaining ain’t doing jack shit. Nobody gives a fuck. Will it take the road blocks and forced testing by the goons that join the army to make people rise up? People will accept that i believe. Then comes the forced Vax at the side of the road by some so called Dr who’ll give medical procedures against your will, will people accept that? I believe they will. When they come round your house and remove your children because you’ve not been tested or vaxed will your neighbours cheer like they did for the commie useless NHS? I believe they will. Will the people just accept a life in their house living off government handouts? Yes they will. Will people line up for food parcels at distribution centres? Yes indeed. Will they dig their own fucking graves and climb in? Too fucking right they will. I feel every single one of us is pissing in the fucking wind. Toby is so very nice and all, Hitchens is a clever chap and everything but when are they gonna get angry? When are they gonna call out these evil bastards for what they are. I’m beginning to think they are as useless as cretins like David Icke. It’s a funny old world where Piers Corbyn is about the only one out there putting their ass on the line.
I was at the protest in Edinburgh at the weekend, me, a handful of loonies and and couple of Tourists and some nice middle class kids who think it was all a big fucking joke. It achieved nothing. It didn’t even make the fucking news. I now almost believe this site is just part of the whole thing put up so those of us who oppose this will expose themselves and when the brave soldiers come round the doors testing and vaxing people who’ve posted here we will be first.

119321 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Biker, 6, #332 of 1715 🔗

Yes I have worried about this. The secret services can read everyone’s IP addresses here.

119483 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Kate, 1, #333 of 1715 🔗

I posted this earlier

Common Law action.

http://tapnewswire.com/2020/09/citizens-issue-stand-down-order-to-authorities-after-nullifying-and-outlawing-covid-regulations/

We have to come together and why not through Common Law?

Another site to evaluate:

https://www.earthunited.global/

120315 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Kate, 3, #334 of 1715 🔗

I would work for the secret services if i could. You won’t find a more patriotic British person than me. I love our country and it’s history and i don’t think most of the secret service, army, police etc are behind what is going on. Imagine it this way, if in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy George Smiley came to the conclusion that it was Roy Bland or Toby Esterhase who was Gerald and Bill Hayden remained in charge of the Circus this is what we would be suffering. I don’t think Boris is in charge or if he is then he’s working for the other side. I want us to go back to the sleepy wee place we were before they brought the third world here to destroy us, before Parliament declared itself sovereign and removed the Queen and before they imposed this medical bullshit on us. We are common men under common law and that must be fought for and i’d hope the chaps that work for the Secret Service are behind that.

119323 ▶▶ peter, replying to Biker, 3, #335 of 1715 🔗

I agree with you about this site, Toby’s job is to deflect all blame from the murderous Tories and rubbish those who demonstrate this covid hysteria is a carefully engineered hoax.

119336 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to peter, 4, #336 of 1715 🔗

I used to belong to a website for people with CFS/ME.
Recent research has now linked a third of CFS/ME cases to vaccine injury – a finding which may explain the drive to stigmatise this illness as “yuppie flu”.

I knew the person who built and maintained the website and he told me the website was monitored night and day by two IP addresses in Whitehall. If anyone’s post went too far, he would get a message to take the offending post down

119485 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Kate, #337 of 1715 🔗

Specific sites are great in their own contexts, but we need one to encompass everyone.

119862 ▶▶ nat, replying to Biker, 7, #338 of 1715 🔗
120119 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 3, #339 of 1715 🔗

That sounds somewhat like the last days of the Soviet Union; forced medical procedures were the norm as were road blocks and the removal of children for any reason or none. People didn’t stay at home to get given government handouts, they had to pretend to do an unnecessary job to get them.
Piers Corbyn would be headed for the Psychiatric Hospital by now.

Every now and then rules were relaxed only to be tightened later just to show who was in charge (sound familiar?)

You didn’t mention conscription into the Soviet Army in which homosexual rape of newbies was regarded as essential to the maintenance of order and discipline.

These days they won’t need to demand “show me your papers”, they already know who you are from facial recognition. Neither will they need to torture you to find out your opinions, they have read all your Social Media.

And then there were the state sanctioned shnitches, internal passports (Caerphilly, how topical).
Permission to go to University or in which sector you could or could not work or shop or live in decided by caprice. Now to be decided by the Health Passport algorithm App.

The reason people put up with it was because they or grandad, rememberd how much worse it was before.

I could go on but having not come to a conclusion I have to go.

119301 Mike, replying to Mike, 30, #340 of 1715 🔗

I don’t know about anyone else but I’m starting to feel like we need a symbol, a subtle one, which we can wear for other sceptics to recognise when out and about (think poppy etc). I very rarely wear a face nappy and always feel a little sense of triumph when I see someone else likewise unmasked; but even I am starting to tire of seeing a sea of compliant muzzled faces when I venture out into town. I know they can’t all be ‘true believers’ in this rubbish, but it’s becoming increasingly obvious that the psychologists behind this fiasco have certainly played a blinder on the general public.

119353 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mike, 5, #341 of 1715 🔗

Literally a non-red poppy isn’t a bad idea… ‘civilians’ wouldn’t be sure whether it meant you were a ‘Covid denier’ or it had some other significance. If a moron challenged you you could claim it was the symbol of the Invictus Games, or Animals in War or some such.

119590 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #342 of 1715 🔗

My symbol is the orange poppy – feel free to use that as an idea.

120643 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Barney McGrew, #343 of 1715 🔗

A Coronavirus logo with a slash through the middle of it. Like défense de fumer. No smoking. Or this or that.

119570 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Mike, 6, #344 of 1715 🔗

I got a bunch of small badges made a few months ago with “AWAKE” on it. Has started a few conversations, and I give them out to anyone who knows what’s really going on.

119642 ▶▶▶ Mike, replying to Quernus, 2, #345 of 1715 🔗

I quite like that idea.

119871 ▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Mike, 1, #346 of 1715 🔗

It reminds me that I’m the normal one, if nothing else, Mike! Happy to send some over to you if you’d like – I got some small stickers made up for car windows too. Or I can send you the template I used if you want to get some made up yourself.

119873 ▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Mike, 2, #347 of 1715 🔗

Here’s the badge I made.

120646 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Quernus, #348 of 1715 🔗

According to Plato Socrates said ‘ the unexamined life is not worth living’. Socrates. Or The Thinker.

120634 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mike, #349 of 1715 🔗

Ban the Bomb button. Two birds with one stone.

119319 mjr, replying to mjr, 19, #350 of 1715 🔗

A week or so ago i emailed Aldi complaining about a product but also raising questions about their mask policy for staff.

Initially I said “i think you should stop enforcing mask wearing on your staff. Other supermarkets do not do this and it is not government guidance . I have noticed several of the staff suffering from skin complaints and wearing a mask, all day, fiddling with it etc is potentially a bigger hazard than being mask free”.

Response All colleagues have been provided with facemasks and are asked to wear these whilst working on the shop floor. If a colleague has a medical condition and they are unable to wear a facemask, they will be exempt from wearing a mask.
The Government has however confirmed that colleagues working behind Perspex screens are not required to wear a facemask due to the enhanced protection provided by a screen.

my reply ” you are incorrect in your interpretation of government guidance. Shop workers do NOT have to wear masks.  I quote from https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/shops-and-branches
“Employers should support their workers in using face coverings safely if they choose to wear one. It is not mandatory for shop or supermarket , indoor shopping centres, banks, building societies, post office workers, premises providing professional, legal or financial services and auction houses to wear face coverings although the government recommends that businesses consider their use where appropriate and where other mitigations are not in place.”
I know the staff that i speak to do not choose to wear one and are only wearing a mask because Aldi have instructed them to (or as you have indicated .. colleagues have been asked to wear them….. ) . is this under threat of disciplinary action?

Response Thank you for responding to my colleagues email.
As my colleague has stated Aldi are adhering to the Government Guidelines regarding our colleagues and customers of wearing the face coverings. If staff have any concerns at all regarding wearing the mask they can speak with their manager who will support them. Our Staff and customers health and safety is our highest priority.

my reply “As i explained in my last email, Aldi are not following the guidelines. I quoted the specific wording from the guidelines below.
So my question is still unanswered. As you are forcing your staff to wear masks or have they all asked you to support them in their wish to wear masks? And if staff choose not to wear masks, which they are entitled to do, will this be allowed (without a medical issue) or, if they do not wear a mask, will they be disciplined.?
As i said , this is an Aldi rule and not government guidelines. Who decided this would be the rule and on what basis?

So .. I seem to be going round in circles. Aldi wont admit that they are going beyond the government guidelines or explain why.

119370 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to mjr, 8, #351 of 1715 🔗

10 out of 10 for persistence!

119450 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Steeve, 3, #352 of 1715 🔗

i actually like Aldi. I like the staff at my local branch and always chat with them. So i was just curious why they had to wear masks. and obviously the inability for HO to give me a straight answer has made me even more curious.

119523 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mjr, 2, #353 of 1715 🔗

Like just about everyone, bar us on here, they are following the government guidance very carefully, mjr. It’s just that they haven’t actually looked at it!

120164 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, #354 of 1715 🔗

I’ve previously posted about talking to an off duty Tesco lad about why he has suddenly started wearing a mask having worked through early lockdown without one.
He told me it’s ‘not exactly compulsory but management “strongly advise” that we wear them’.
ie your career with XYZ.plc is compromised if you don’t.

To be fair, a lanyard touting Granny tells me that this does not apply to Sainsbury’s.

119320 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 8, #355 of 1715 🔗
119335 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #356 of 1715 🔗

That is very interesting. Could it work here?

119463 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to HelzBelz, #357 of 1715 🔗

We must find some way.

Have yet to make up my mid about this site:

https://www.earthunited.global

Check out their alliances.

119519 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to adele, 5, #359 of 1715 🔗

I think this a very important document and going in the direct direction. But they don’t want to define limit of detection and pass the buck to the laboratories. But at least they don’t think Pillar 2 is eq.to Pillar1 in that a repeat sample with limit of detection should be regarded as non infectious in Pillar 2 and not need any isolation or contact tracing. They assume therefore that Pillar 2 is mostly asymptomatic. Let’s hope this is the first step in reassessment of mass-testing

119584 ▶▶▶ adele, replying to swedenborg, 3, #360 of 1715 🔗

Agreed. Only 5 months late but hopefully more pushing from non sage scientists will keep nudging them along at a faster rate. Unbelievable really that still no cycle threshold has been set as standard.

119807 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to adele, 2, #361 of 1715 🔗

It would be nice if the cycle count has been stored along with the result – it would be nice to be able to revise down the total cases in the same manner as the deaths.

119739 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to swedenborg, #362 of 1715 🔗

They also seem to suggest that patients are infectious for far longer than we’ve previously been led to believe. They don’t count someone as being safe until five weeks after onset of symptoms.

121040 ▶▶▶▶ adele, replying to Andrew Fish, #363 of 1715 🔗

I was wondering about that myself. Seems like massive overkill still but it’s a step in the right direction for a change.

119595 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to adele, 2, #364 of 1715 🔗

A good find! This looks like a step in the right direction, the trouble is that the steps are so slow…….zzzz………

119330 Mike May, 4, #365 of 1715 🔗

Reading today about the apparent absence these days of any non-CoVID NHS service, I recall a comment I once read somewhere: “When I was a child, my parents made all my doctor’s appointments for me. These days, I just take two aspirin and hope I don’t die.”

119338 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #366 of 1715 🔗

Sorry if already posted, but this is quite sensible from one of the senior Oxford medics:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8707341/SIR-JOHN-BELL-live-terror-cut-world-Britain-open-again.html

Helpful (although would prefer non-promotion of experimental vaccines), and something of a counter to JV-T and Edmonds’ hysterical musings of last night. We need Heneghan, Gupta and Lee out in the press in the next few days in the run-up to the consultation deadline next Friday.

119447 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #367 of 1715 🔗

I wouldn’t be testing though. That’s a fool’s errand. No context at all. If you test for one thing you need to test for all others and then see how you deal with that knowledge. It’s actually better not knowing.

119666 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 1, #368 of 1715 🔗

In a sane world that would be bleedin’ obvious, wouldn’t it?

120144 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #369 of 1715 🔗

I ripped this to shreds when it was posted earlier.

He does point out that deaths and hospital admissions are negligible but he’s also rabidly pro 2nd wave, pro vaccine and pro mass testing.

You’re right we need much more Heneghan, Gupta and Lee.

119342 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #370 of 1715 🔗

The very safe way masks are made
Forward this to your muzzle mates
Inferior masks made in slums .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSQi9yXkfUg

120650 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #371 of 1715 🔗

Slave labour making masks for future slaves.

119349 NickR, replying to NickR, 5, #372 of 1715 🔗

Royal College General Practicioners Research & Surveillance Centre – Weekly Returns Service. This is data from doctor’s practices on what they’re seeing:
COVID-19:

  • decreased from 10.5 in week 34 to 7.6 in week 35 in the London region,
  • decreased from 8.9 in week 34 to 8.0 in week 35 in the North region,
  • decreased from 5.3 in week 34 to 3.4 in week 35 in the South region,
  • decreased from 12.8 in week 34 to 6.1 in week 35 in the Midlands And East region

https://www.rcgp.org.uk/-/media/Files/CIRC/WeeklyReport_Summer_wk35_2020.ashx?la=en
This is all so interesting. If you look at the link you’ll see that effectively every communicable illness is running at about 1/2 it’s normal rate! How much is simply due to no one consulting the doctor and how much because all the covid measures have suppressed normal illness.

119350 ▶▶ NickR, replying to NickR, 1, #373 of 1715 🔗

Ooops, I should have said the numbers are incidents per 100,000.

119660 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 1, #374 of 1715 🔗

how much because all the covid measures have suppressed normal illness”

More worrying – how much does that indicate a real problem with weakened immune systems – a problem that will come home to roost.

… and then blamed on Covid.

119358 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 6, #375 of 1715 🔗

I can’t find anyone to go with me to Doncaster race. I can’t think why -I’ll even pay. https://www.doncaster-racecourse.co.uk/news/racing/code-of-conduct
For your safety, and the safety of others, please make sure to observe the following whilst at our Racecourse.

  • Observe all 2m social distancing protocols at all times, whether inside or outside the racecourse.
  • Please celebrate with a silent cheer, and a clap, in order to help avoid the spread of Covid-19.
  • On arrival, exit, when in a queue, visiting the bar, bookmakers or a lavatory, face masks MUST be worn.
  • Make sure all of the facilities that you need are available within the area you have booked.
  • Comply with any health checks that may be required on entering the racecourse.
  • Be aware, your temperature may be taken on entry.
  • All payments within the racecourse are cashless. Only bookmakers will accept cash.
  • Use the smoking circles on course, please do not smoke in other areas.
  • Regularly wash your hands, use hand sanitizer and avoid touching your face and dispose of any used tissues appropriately.
  • Do not remove hand sanitizer or other personal hygiene products from their location.
  • Do not gather away from your allocated area, at the rail of the race track, for example.
  • Make sure all walkways, corridors and doorways etc are clear before you walk through.
  • Avoid face to face contact with other spectators and avoid hugs, high fives and any contact with people.
  • Follow all signage and the instructions of staff, officials or any emergency service personnel present at the racecourse.
  • Do not try to access areas of the racecourse apart from the area detailed on your ticket.
  • Make sure other members of your group have read and understood these guidelines also.

Thank you so much for your support and co-operation. Stay alert and stay safe!

119390 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to arfurmo, 4, #376 of 1715 🔗

To be honest – I thought this was a wind up! Only bookmakers will accept cash! Hugs etc

119398 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Steeve, 2, #377 of 1715 🔗

God, so did I! And then….

119402 ▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to bluemoon, 1, #378 of 1715 🔗

Perhaps it’s there way of saying how ridiculous it all is! You know what I’m tempted to go!

119417 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Steeve, 2, #379 of 1715 🔗

Don’t forget your wads of cash!

119437 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to bluemoon, 1, #380 of 1715 🔗

Changed my mind!

For general attendance tickets, the racecourse has two zones available, both offer slightly different viewing areas. Each zone is self-contained with its own, lavatories, bar facilities, catering, betting facilities and big screens. Hand santisation stations, and social distancing officers will be present in every zone and all attendees will be required to sign up to the racecourse code of conduct .

119495 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Steeve, #381 of 1715 🔗

Well you could take some curtains to hang over the screens and pretend you’re in a private box?

119504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to bluemoon, #382 of 1715 🔗

This is the problem we have – you read screens and thought plastic – I read screens and thought TV!

119524 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Steeve, 1, #383 of 1715 🔗

Oh you’re right!
But the race course experience would be much safer if punters were in little plastic boxes.

120154 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steeve, #384 of 1715 🔗

Tell me again, what’s the definition of insanity?

119571 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to bluemoon, 3, #385 of 1715 🔗

Bookies may be the last bastion of cash. They tried cashless, someone reported taking 20 minutes to put a big bet on due to the bank approval system – the race is over by then

120152 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steeve, #386 of 1715 🔗

Huge crowd of one?

119554 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to arfurmo, 1, #387 of 1715 🔗

Totally mental. I hope NOBODY goes. Sadly people will go, and spend their wads of cash.

The WADS OF CASH they got from: Sitting at home doing nothing, sitting in a paddling pool doing zoom calls in their gardens, planning town centre signage and where to put the sanitizer stations and stay 2 meters apart stickers, selling 40 million face nappies and pairs of plastic gloves, selling perpex safety screens and stay 2 meters apart-stay-safe-masks must be worn signs, from selling test kits and running testing centres, from selling remote working software, from being consultants on all this covid safe policy insanity….

I have never been to a horse race I have have never had any money to gamble with.
FFS.

119360 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -26, #388 of 1715 🔗

Re: My recent criticisms of Prof Gupta & Prof Michael Levitt. A number of people have asked me to provide evidence. Here it is:

1/ Michael Levitt wrote this medium blog in

https://medium.com/ .levitt/the-excess-burden-of-death-from-coronavirus-covid-19-is-closer-to-a-month-than-to-a-year-83fca74455b4

Levitt is challenging David Spiegelhalter’s expected death excess

Must more helpful, is to consider the 700 people infected on the Diamond Princess. They were mostly from a group of 1,690 passengers over 65 years old. There were 7 deaths from COVID-19 all older than 75 years of age. If you take column two of the Imperial College table (below) and multiply the numbers by 7 (700 passengers, vs. 100 in a percentage count), you would expect 7x(2.2+5.1+9.3) = 116 deaths . This seems to be rather high when the real number of deaths is 7.

Leaving asked the fact the DP death toll is now 13 (Levitt as usual jumps in too early) the calculation he makes is laughable. We can all make simple mistakes but any scientist worth his salt would have quickly realised that his numbers were nonsense. He’s used percentages of the whole 700 rather than the numbers in each individual age group – and then published them.

2/ Sunetra Gupta

In March, Professor Gupta was lead author of a study which concluded that “ Coronavirus may have infected half of UK population”

Take your pick from any of these

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=KTlXX4rzLfiCjLsPvp-M0AQ&q=Coronavirus+may+have+infected+half+of+UK+population+%E2%80%94+Oxford+study&oq=Coronavirus+may+have+infected+half+of+UK+population+%E2%80%94+Oxford+study&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQA1D_DFj_DGCTE2gAcAB4AIABR4gBR5IBATGYAQCgAQKgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjKq_XfitnrAhV4AWMBHb4PA0oQ4dUDCAk&uact=5

At least Ferguson’s estimate turned out to be pretty accurate (~40k). The 500k figure was based on a scenario in which no mitigating action were taken.

Sunetra Gupta is a “theoretical epidemiologist”, by the way.

119371 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 11, #389 of 1715 🔗

How did Ferguson’s figures work out in Sweden? Maybe you could do some calculations for us.

119520 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -4, #390 of 1715 🔗

I would need to know what geographical separation parameters Ferguson applied in the UK. He clearly did not assume a 100% homogeneous population.

119599 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 2, #391 of 1715 🔗

They did certainly use an assumption that everyone was equally susceptible to the virus. That is, no immunity. This was confirmed in Levitts zoom call with the modeller from ICL

119645 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to BeBopRockSteady, -1, #392 of 1715 🔗

Since we have no definite evidence to say otherwise – YET that is not an unreasonable assumption.

Better than Levitt who assumes an epidemic is over just because case growth declines.

119919 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, 3, #393 of 1715 🔗

Usually because it is. Unlike Ferguson, who has been proven wrong repeatedly over two decades, Levitt does predict disease trajectories extremely well. And when case growth declines, your epidemic is well on its way out. As has been shown, repeatedly, by the real world data.

119372 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 5, #394 of 1715 🔗

Merely being aware of things that you and Ferguson aren’t makes them better scientists. Ferguson and his acolytes are profoundly ignorant of the way the immune system works. As a result, their models are just toys with unquantifiable errors built into them. If they ever made an accurate “estimate” it was by pure chance rather than reasoning.

119516 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Barney McGrew, -3, #395 of 1715 🔗

You may turn out to be correct about the immune system, but Ferguson could not assume anything in Feb & March. We still don’t know how much innate or prior immunity the UK population has. Some RECENT studies have suggested it might be a significant proportion but the pattern of spread, i.e. clusters, would put this in some doubt.

Why would people in, say, Coventry have innate immunity while those in Birmingham are more susceptible.

119542 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 6, #396 of 1715 🔗

Ferguson has been consistently wrong over a span of half-a-dozen infections.

The Swedish data confirms that his only ability is to continue to be egregiously wrong

119591 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, -2, #397 of 1715 🔗

Ferguson didn’t model Sweden. We have no idea how he would have handled geographic separation.

You can’t simply use a pro rata figure based on UK estimates

119896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to BeBopRockSteady, -1, #399 of 1715 🔗

I’ll repeat. Ferguson didn’t model Sweden.

119790 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, #400 of 1715 🔗

This is correct. I’ve downvoted all your other posts as they’re full of poor assumptions, bad maths or outright lies – but upvoted this one. Not sure why people are disagreeing, it’s a fact.

119900 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tee Ell, -1, #401 of 1715 🔗

You will point out my bad maths at some point will you?

As for poor assumptions, I don’t rely on assumptions. I only rely on what is scientifically proven. That is my main point.

119926 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, #402 of 1715 🔗

I rely on data. That is the only truth.

120652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tee Ell, #403 of 1715 🔗

I’m sure some Swedish Ferguson made their own model.

119630 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Mayo, #404 of 1715 🔗

Maybe the people of Coventry were exposed to the virus early on due to a super spreader? I know nothing about this, but what factors would have to be in play for viruses not to spread in clumps and clusters right at the start of of an epidemic given the random or chaotic nature of people meeting, flying in from abroad, etc. ?

119653 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to DressageRider, -1, #405 of 1715 🔗

Coventry must have had more immunity then because I don’t think there were many hospital admissions or deaths due to respiratory problems.

I rather think, though, it’s because not many have had it.

119924 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, #406 of 1715 🔗

Yes he could. We had “Diamond Princess” data by the end of February.

119811 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #407 of 1715 🔗

So true. A well functioning immune system will protect people from dying from Covid-19

119905 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Victoria, -1, #408 of 1715 🔗

So how many people have a “well functioning immune system”? Do we all have one? 80%, 50%, 20% …… ?

Do tell us.

120292 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 1, #409 of 1715 🔗

You keep on telling us all the things we don’t – and can’t – know. And on that basis you then proceed to tell us how to live our lives! NO! We accept that there are things we can’t put a figure on, and in those circumstances we have to, effectively, take a chance and leave the house without knowing. Just as we have every single day of our lives so far. You can ‘shield’ if you want to until Uncle Matt and Professor Ferguson have made you “safe” (which they can and will never do).

In 2017 I believe there was a bad flu epidemic. Did you plot the state of your immune system throughout, and sometimes wear a mask as a result, or keep your distance from people. Did you f***.

It is not for you to tell me how to live my life because you’ve been taken in by a fake panic over a standard-issue respiratory virus.

119382 ▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Mayo, 6, #410 of 1715 🔗

On Sunetra, it’d help if you can publish any findings saying that half of the UK pop hasn’t been infected. You’ve just assumed she’s wrong. Afterall its a highly viralent disease (or so the fearmongers would have us believe)

On the Ferguson, his models have been applied to Sweden with no mitigation, medium mitigation and a full lockdown. At best he is proved wrong by a factor of 10. Even more laughable is his complete disregard for immunity following infection. Even Google modellers called his model ‘Bad practise’

In 2005, Ferguson said that up to 200 million people could be killed from bird flu. He told the Guardian that ‘around 40 million people died in 1918 Spanish flu outbreak… There are six times more people on the planet now so you could scale it up to around 200 million people probably.’ In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

How did he get this forecast so wrong?

On 22 March, Ferguson said that Imperial College London’s model of the Covid-19 disease is based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code, that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronavirus.

How many assumptions in the Imperial model are still based on influenza and is there any risk that the modelling is flawed because of these assumptions?

119397 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 7, #411 of 1715 🔗

Wasn’t the same model used to predict outcomes from Foot and Mouth that resulted in hundreds of cattle being slaughtered unnecessarily? The same model was also used to predict Ebola casualties.
The ammended code (including modifications) was on github to download, and it was an appalling mess without any apparent comments on how it worked.

119536 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to p02099003, -2, #412 of 1715 🔗

Use a simple S-I-R model with basic assumptions.

There’s a video by the Swedish epidemiologist Tom Britton. Watch it. Then comment.

119564 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 4, #413 of 1715 🔗

And that is the problem. The SIR model does not reflect real life epidemics. It is a toy model, suitable perhaps for a “My first lecture on modelling”. Ferguson (and others) bases his entire, disastrous career on it.

119609 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, #414 of 1715 🔗

Forget S-I-R models. Just look at the actuality that they don’t predict very well.

119659 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, #415 of 1715 🔗

If the assumptions used in them are correct then they model epidemics fairly well. Unfortunately, uncertainty over initial assumptions is a problem.

119709 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mayo, #416 of 1715 🔗

Indeed, an important part of the modelling process should be bringing those assumptions to light.

119671 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Barney McGrew, #417 of 1715 🔗

Tell Tom Britton that. He’s involved with the Swedish response.

Quite sophisticated SIR models can be developed as more is known about a pathogen.

Unfortunately, the initial parameters are very uncertain at the outset of a pandemic.

But I still say it’s not over. And we are still very uncertain about population immunity.

120830 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Barney McGrew, #418 of 1715 🔗

An SIR model WITH THE RIGHT PARAMETERS gives something much closer to the data we’ve seen than Ferguson’s over-complicated rubbish does. And Ferguson knowingly fed overly pessimistic parameters in to his messy model to reach his doom and gloom conclusions.

119415 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 4, #419 of 1715 🔗

Did you hear about the Neil Ferguson Investment Fund? Someone calculated that if you put a trillion pounds into it twenty years ago, you would now be left with …two pounds eleven pence!

(it’s supposedly the actual figure you get if you chain all his errors together…)

119421 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, #420 of 1715 🔗

In 2005, Ferguson said that up to 200 million people could be killed from bird flu. He told the Guardian that ‘around 40 million people died in 1918 Spanish flu outbreak… There are six times more people on the planet now so you could scale it up to around 200 million people probably.’ In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

How did he get this forecast so wrong?

Because it wasn’t a forecast. A newspaper interviewer asked him what would happen if avian flu was transmitted between humans, and he gave the worst-case answer, which is of course what the newspaper chose to print. As it happens, avian flu did not become transmissible between humans and so lots of people didn’t die after all. Which is good.

119441 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #421 of 1715 🔗

Then don’t say anything when asked. That is blatantly unethical. These theorists need firing.

119480 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, 1, #422 of 1715 🔗

“Blatantly unethical” — no. Unwise — possibly.

119725 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, #423 of 1715 🔗

It is unethical to apply hypothesis to real life situations where your words result in actions being taken by others.

You can apply hypothesis to yourself all you like.

120254 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, 1, #424 of 1715 🔗

It is unethical to apply hypothesis to real life situations where your words result in actions being taken by others.

I disagree. It is unethical to misrepresent the level of certainty or accuracy in any estimates or predictions, of course. It may be considered unethical to make statements which you know, or have reasonable cause to suspect, will be misunderstood or misrepresented, which might apply to giving interviews to certain newspapers.

120837 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to mhcp, #425 of 1715 🔗

Unless you are very careful to point out that your conclusion is very dependent on assumptions X,Y,Z… Which I don’t think Ferguson did, he was making these models for government not for public consumption and in showing them should have been in a position to know to be very careful about making over statements and the risk of under-emphasising the limits of his theories. Although the media undoubtedly cut off the “dependent on…” part of the conclusion when they spread the panic to the public and made the whole thing even worse.

119507 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, -4, #426 of 1715 🔗

On Sunetra, it’d help if you can publish any findings saying that half of the UK pop hasn’t been infected

The paper was published on March 22nd and was based on data up to and including March 19th. I am SCEPTICAL. It’s up to Prof. Gupta to provide the evidence.

I find it unlikely that 50% of the UK population were infected in March when I don’t know a single person – even now – who has had Covid.

On 22 March, Ferguson said that Imperial College London’s model of the Covid-19 disease is based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code, that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronaviru s.

That’s completely irrelevant. Any competent epidemiologist or mathematical modeller could cobble together an SIR model to give a ball park figure. I’ve done it, Nic Lewis has done it and I dare say hundreds of others have done. We all get similar results to Ferguson (using the same assumptions).

If Ferguson has it wrong it will likely be because

1/ He’s over- estimated IFR
2/ He has not included sufficient Heterogeneity.

Since these parameters were very uncertain in March (and still are) his IFR estimate of 0.9% was a decent first stab.

119540 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, 4, #427 of 1715 🔗

“I don’t know a single person – even now – who has had Covid.”

In which case, why are we in lockdown given how few people are affected.

119550 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ewan Duffy, -8, #428 of 1715 🔗

Lockdown is effective at preventing spread.

See NZ for details.

119606 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 7, #429 of 1715 🔗

So what do they do next?

See Sweden for details.

120173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mayo, #430 of 1715 🔗

See Peru you mean!

120851 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Mayo, #431 of 1715 🔗

Firstly, NZ didn’t stop spread by lockdown, they stopped introduction because they sealed themselves off from the world before covid arrived ( I don’t, by the way, approve of closing borders, I agree with free movement and free trade, blocking those always has bad effects internally, virus or no virus). They are still living in fear because the virus could arrive at any time. As for countries which, being, unlike New Zealand, international hubs and unable to close borders early eough to stop introduction, tried an internal lockdown, it never helped at all. Belgium, locked down hard and early, worst percentage of covid deaths in Europe. Phillipines, locked down very hard, virus still spreading and deaths climbing fast. Peru, locked down hard, virus getting worse, further more desperate lockdwon measures all failing. Then look at Sweden, handled it rationally, small but effective measures, viral wave passes and doesn’t seem to be returning. Or look at Belarus, totally ignored the virus (the Swedish strategy probably makes more sense than this one), but the country is not racked by a ruinous death toll, instead it is busy boiling up to a civil war over the matter of how its dictator (terrible man but great covid policy) cheated the recent election and harassed the wives of his jailed opposition, the people there have forgotten the virus, even totally uncontrolled spread of this virus isn’t a nation wrecking calamity.

119553 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #432 of 1715 🔗

That’s completely irrelevant. Any competent epidemiologist or mathematical modeller could cobble together an SIR model to give a ball park figure. I’ve done it, Nic Lewis has done it and I dare say hundreds of others have done. We all get similar results to Ferguson (using the same assumptions).”

Apart from the snide observation that the words ‘competent’ and ‘epidemiologist’ often part company – certainly in the hallowed halls of ICL ….

This is a circular argument that is laughably unscientific. It assumes that the internal logic of a bad program is its own justification. If we know anything after the Ferguson debacle, the SIR model is spectacularly prone to errors of theoretical simplification.

In layman;’s terms : GI > Garbage Code > Garbage Out.

119582 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, -4, #433 of 1715 🔗

By “layman” I assume you are referring to someone who has made no attempt to understand the process by which these estimates are made but are happy to regurgitate the rantings of random bloggers.

There is a logic to Ferguson’s work. Subsequent research might mean that the model’s initial assumptions were wrong.

However, Ferguson is not likely to be any more in error than Levitt or Gupta. One tweet by Levitt suggested South Korea would peak at 8048 cases. That’s not aging well. It’s simplistic nonsense based on short term data.

119603 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 7, #434 of 1715 🔗

No – just someone who tests hypotheses against the real world in a recursive process – i.e uses scientific method rather than p0laying in a hermetically sealed room of speculation.

I’m, actually more interested in historical data than projections and modelling concepts such as ‘excess deaths’ (simply the actual error component of a particular projection)

This virus was rightly downgraded way back in March, and the figures of mortality show, in retrospect, that, despite the April spike, it had only a moderate effect in a comparative framework.

Yet I’ve just heard some numbskull from the WHO still banging on about what a terrible disease it is – evidence free nonsense generating a massive decline in the quality of life for millions.

119610 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mayo, 3, #435 of 1715 🔗

20,000 lines of code in one file (before MS tried to finesse it), no unit tests, few comments (except where extant bugs are observed), tries and fails to be multithreaded.
Apparently software engineering expertise is entirely optional for competent computer models.
I’d really like to see the original model that caused all this rather than the post hoc one that MS tried to make look somewhat acceptable. We all know it won’t happen.

119950 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, 1, #436 of 1715 🔗

So you’re admitting that South Korea’s mitigation measures failed then? That doesn’t surprise us here, we know lockdowns and quarantines don’t work. Real world data, not theory. How unfortunate.

119548 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mayo, 2, #437 of 1715 🔗

Yes, I’ve done it too and got compatible figures, as one would expect. The other parameter of an SIR model is initial proportion of people already immune. One would need that to be around 50% to fit the experience of places like Manaus and Guayaquil. Heterogeneity would also have that effect, and I think it likely that a non-Poisson model for infections would as well.

119613 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 2, #438 of 1715 🔗

Regardless, the consequences of his first stab have been frighteningly inaccurate. We need to seriously consider the process by which we allow such predictions to drive policy in that way.

I’ve heard it claimed that we have saved 350,000 lives with the measures if we take Ferguson numbers. How can that ever be proven? If we take it as true it is the most spectacular public policy success of all time. Boris deserves a statue.

119738 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, 2, #439 of 1715 🔗

You fundamentally do not see the issue. Models from hypothesis cannot be applied to the real world before being validated and verified. Theorists like yourself just cannot get over this. Models can be useful but when it comes time to get real you go with the Null Hypothesis when you don’t know.

I could knockup an SIR model too. But I have enough experience and ethics to know that I would not have minimised my assumptions pr tested things

If Ferguson’s model were for a product and it managed to get to production, the company would be sued out of existence and the owners most probably in jail.

Ferguson’s folly was thinking he was entitled to get away with applying anything to the real world without the caveat: do not take this as anything but speculation.

119930 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to mhcp, -2, #440 of 1715 🔗

I’m not a “theorist” as you put it. However, pandemics rarely give us an opportunity to run a real world validation.

Epidemiologists need to make assumptions – so will tend to err on the side of caution.

You criticise Ferguson but accept pretty much any old codswallop from Gupta, Levitt et al without question.

You are not applying the same standards. Likne more readers of this blog , you are not a true sceptic.

119952 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, #441 of 1715 🔗

No? Well, one one person’s predictions are closer to the real data than another’s, I know which one of the two I’m going to treat with more respect. Hint: it isn’t Ferguson.

120269 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #442 of 1715 🔗

Models from hypothesis cannot be applied to the real world before being validated and verified.

Sadly, that’s not always possible, or ethical. This was an occasion where a decision had to be made at a certain time. It’s a mistake to take the 510,000 figure as an answer to a numerical question. The answer was “Catastrophic”, and on any reasonable variation on the then known data, the answer was always the same. As it happens, we now know, from the experience of other places, such as Manaus and Guayaquil, that the numerical answer was an over-estimate, but the answer “Catastrophic” was the correct one.

The business analogy isn’t really a good one. If you do nothing until you’re sure, typically the worst that happens is that you lose what turns out to be profitable business to a competitor. In this case, the do-nothing option would have led to a death and civil disruption on an intolerable scale.

120859 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Richard Pinch, #443 of 1715 🔗

Doing nothing isn’t a great option, especially when the threat is unkown, but we now know that doing nothing about covid-19 does not lead to intolerable levels of death, and barely leads to disruption at all*. And we could see pretty good evidence even in March that doing nothing wouldn’t be too disasterous (though back then we didn’t realise quite how mild doing nothing could be) .In Belarus, or some developing countries which chose to totally ignore covid, life went on, pretty normally. I don’t recommend total ignorance of it, I recommend a proportional response, as Sweden took, and where doing nothing about covid doesn’t lead to anything too terible, doing only the small sensible things keeps deaths low and disruption almost non-existent.

*lockdown, and the panic buying which occurs when one is declared, are both disruptive though

119748 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mayo, -1, #444 of 1715 🔗

I don’t know a single person – even now – who has had Covid

How do you know? Has everyone you know been tested twice? If the answer’s no, then you’re lying – but I appreciate the lie is due to ignorance rather than bad intention so I don’t hold it against you.

120863 ▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Tee Ell, #445 of 1715 🔗

So the conclusion is, he might know people who had very mild or asymptomatic cases (he may have had one himself), but doesn’t know anyone who has had a serious case. From which we conclude that the virus could have spread pretty widely, but severe cases are rare enough that many people won’t know of anyone who’s had one. While his logic on the spread may have been flawed, the choices of action he derives from that logic still appear to match those we can derive from the more complete logic of including asymptomatic cases.

119388 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Mayo, 3, #446 of 1715 🔗

Actually Fergusson said if mitigation was put in place then the figure would be 250,000 . So only 5 x out .

” Even with the most effective so-called “mitigation strategy” and under the assumption that all patients are fully treated, the paper concludes there would be around 250,000 deaths in the UK and up to 1.2m deaths in the US. “

119419 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Peter Thompson, 14, #447 of 1715 🔗

Everyone’s assuming that the 50,000 deaths was real. Apart from disputing whether the passing of a 90 year-old with three co-morbidities is really a ‘Covid death’ at all, I’d guess that at least half of the 50,000 are just PHE statistical shenanigans, care-home owners routinely attributing all deaths to Covid, etc.

119454 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #448 of 1715 🔗

Indeed . The only deaths of patients WITH Covid in my patch have been a number in three local dementia homes ( normal life expectancy on admission to said homes 12-18 months ) and a few revolving door patients with severe morbidities and frailties who had a life expectancy at most of a few months.

119462 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Barney McGrew, -3, #449 of 1715 🔗

Indeed. It’s just a coincidence that All Cause Mortality excess deaths are currently ~53k above the 5 year average.

119471 ▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Mayo, 7, #450 of 1715 🔗

60 % of that number would be caused by the policy of lockdown and shutting the NHS down on March the 16 th.

119547 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Peter Thompson, #451 of 1715 🔗

Would it? I doubt that very much given that the bulk of deaths occurred in first 6 weeks.

119650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 1, #452 of 1715 🔗

The age-related mortality of the April spike was closely linked to the low mortality in 2018/19 and the consequent much larger than usual vulnerable population.

It’s very easy to see.

119938 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, #453 of 1715 🔗

Show me what you mean. Your statement needs clarification.

120354 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to RickH, #454 of 1715 🔗

Hmm interesting thanks for explaining it. Weren’t some care homes preventable because of Boris’ terrible policy of putting hospital patients into care homes?

Have you got any links? I’d like to use this info to explain to the hysterical Australians who think that the UK death toll is completely disastrous. The UK is used as a cautionary example how dangerous covid is and what a mistake opening up too soon is.

119631 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 5, #455 of 1715 🔗

… as they are in any year of infection. In my three-quarters of a century, I have lived through approximately two dozen years of worse infection and mortality. Without particularly noticing (and yes – I copped a load from two of them).

Forget the term ‘excess deaths’ – as said, it’s just a moveable feast representing the error in a model., and varies massively with the method used – not to say also with incidentals like the impossibility of analysing the actual Covid contribution.

Just use a population-adjusted comparison over a run of historical data to get an idea of severity. It’s really simple – if painstaking – and boots ‘excess deaths’ into the area of supposition where the term belongs.

This non-epidemic resulted in mortality (up to spring) only at the 75th centile for the past 27 years. Really not something for the Corporal Jones’s of theACM (Association of Crap Modellers) to wet their knickers over.

119942 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, #456 of 1715 🔗

Forget the term ‘excess deaths’ – as said, it’s just a moveable feast representing the error in a model.

What do you mean by this? Age Standardised Excess deaths have nothing to do models.

119955 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, #457 of 1715 🔗

Let’s see where we’re at come end of year, eh?

120869 ▶▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Mayo, #458 of 1715 🔗

The effects of lockdown can rather explain some of those excess deaths. For the others covid is the cause, but the reduction in death rates to below normal levels that we have seen recently implies that covid took, mostly, the lives of those who hadn’t more than a few months left anyway. And do remember, the excess deaths peak due to the combined action of covid and crime of lockdown still doesn’t compare to some of this decade’s winter flu season excess death surges, it just occured at a different time of year, after a pretty mild flu season (implying it may well have taken lives that would have been lost to flu a few months earleir had the flu season been bad in the winter of 2019-2020).

119452 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Peter Thompson, -4, #459 of 1715 🔗

Ferguson used several mitigation scenarios. Under the lockdown he predicted 48k – (assuming R0 = 2.6 & high trigger number)

119464 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Mayo, 4, #460 of 1715 🔗

Sorry Devi you are wrong ,

I quote from his paper as reported in the FT .

”  Even with the most effective so-called “mitigation strategy” and under the assumption that all patients are fully treated, the paper concludes there would be around 250,000 deaths in the UK and up to 1.2m deaths in the US. “

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51915302

119539 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #461 of 1715 🔗

The current lockdown is an example of a “suppression” not a “mitigation” strategy.

119543 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Peter Thompson, -3, #462 of 1715 🔗

Let’s have a bet – £1000 on Ferguson’s predictions.

On the other hand you could read the actual paper (not the MSM)

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

119803 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, #463 of 1715 🔗

Ferguson’s modelling was on confirmed deaths by Covid. If we were able to measure accurately who died of Covid then you could make that comparison. But as there are many vagueries then you don’t even have sufficiently low noise in you signal.

Tell you what? Why don’t you model that and assume it’s reality.

119615 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mayo, 4, #464 of 1715 🔗

He also downgraded to 20,000 at one stage. If you make enough predictions, one might be right.

119699 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #465 of 1715 🔗

It’s not a joke. That’s clearly what he did. They can ignore the other stuff and say he was right.

119946 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Cicatriz, #466 of 1715 🔗

Jeez. The 20k figure was in the original paper.

Read the paper and then comment

119961 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, #467 of 1715 🔗

R0 is an assumption in itself, probably the worst invention of entire event. Unless you test 100% of your population each fortnight, you cannot possibly quantify R0!!

119510 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Peter Thompson, #468 of 1715 🔗

If you’re referring to the famous Report 9, that paper addressed “the impact of five different non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPI) implemented individually and in combination”. Your quote is taken from a paragraph comparing the effect of “mitigation” with “suppression”:

mitigation, which focuses on slowing but not necessarily stopping epidemic spread – reducing peak healthcare demand while protecting those most at risk of severe disease from infection

suppression, which aims to reverse epidemic growth, reducing case numbers to low levels and maintaining that situation indefinitely

Since we are currently in a “suppression” scenario, the “mitigation” scenario figures are not relevant.

Among the conclusions of that paper are, referring to suppression

The social and economic effects of the measures which are needed to achieve this policy goal will be profound

I think most readers of this blog will be in agreement with that last “prediction”.

119810 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, #469 of 1715 🔗

I missed the disclaimer bit saying “In no circumstances, apply this to real world policy” – you know like a proper scientist is supposed to add

120256 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #470 of 1715 🔗

I think this is the same point as the proposition that it is unethical for a scientist to make a prediction, which I answered above.

119492 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mayo, 3, #471 of 1715 🔗

Any chance of making some sort of coherent argument?

119528 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Nobody2020, -4, #472 of 1715 🔗

What is it that you don’t understand?

Is it the fact that a Nobel Prize winner performed a simple mathematical calculation that was obviously wrong – and then included it in a blog post?

or

The fact that Sunetra Gupta has not rowed back from a March prediction that 50% of the UK population could be have been infected.

119532 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 2, #473 of 1715 🔗

Mayo, while you’re here, please could you point us to the data on increased hospital admissions for covid cases that you mentioned? Thanks!

119594 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, #474 of 1715 🔗

Follow David Paton on Twitter. He picks up all data indicators.

119635 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Mayo, #475 of 1715 🔗

Who is David Paton and I am not on Twitter. Can you give us a link of some kind please?

119716 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to DressageRider, #476 of 1715 🔗

Professor of Industrial Economics
Nottingham University Business School

119723 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sarigan, #477 of 1715 🔗

Thanks!

119572 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 2, #478 of 1715 🔗

You are doing it again. Equating ‘infection’ with antibodies. I thought we progressed past that on the first day of this web site. 100% of the population may have been exposed and at some level ‘infected’.

119608 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Barney McGrew, #479 of 1715 🔗

I’m not equating infection with antibodies. I am though suggesting that you have no idea how many infected people don’t develop antibodies.

Clustering suggests not that many. There is no reason why individuals in one region should develop antibodies while those in another region don’t (age adjusted).

If 15% of population in London have developed antibodies then it’s reasonable to assume that at least 15% of the rest of the country will need to develop them. The serological survey suggests this hasn’t happened.

120306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Mayo, 1, #480 of 1715 🔗

Oh contraire… different doses and frequency of infection exposure will affect the immune response. In prisons the infectious viral load is large of frequent. 80% of them become PCR positive and most create antibodies. In contrast, in the general population the infectious load is typical a one off event with a small viral dose. Most people fight that off via a T-cell response, often without even getting symptoms, and generate no antibodies. You obviously have no immunology training (unlike some of us)

119537 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, #481 of 1715 🔗

So you ascribe tot he theory that once a person has been diagnosed with COVID, that is a COVID death regardless of when they die?

119618 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Ewan Duffy, -1, #482 of 1715 🔗

Not necessarily but all cause mortality excess deaths currently stands at ~53k. Given that the bulk of these occurred in the first 6 weeks of the epidemic ‘growth’ it’s reasonable to assume at least 35k were Covid-related.

120361 ▶▶▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Mayo, #483 of 1715 🔗

“it’s reasonable to assume at least 35k were Covid-related”

That might be a reasonable assumption if you believe stress has no effect on people’s susceptibility to disease (of all kinds) but it is widely recognised that it does. Since lockdown put huge swathes of the population under exceptional stress, I don’t see how we can make any reasonable assumptions about the intrinsic lethality of the covid-19 virus without first establishing how many deaths were caused by the lockdown and the general atmosphere of panic.

119538 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 7, #484 of 1715 🔗

At least Ferguson’s estimate turned out to be pretty accurate”

Now I know you’re joking.

“Sunetra Gupta is a “theoretical epidemiologist”, by the way.”

.. an Fergusson isn’t even that – just a bad modeller playing with bad computer code.

The only thing he can claim is that his results are remarkably consistent – in the inaccurate sense.

Just some hard facts :

  1. Its the wide group of proper scientists – the ‘sceptics’ that have been broadly right at every stage of this panicdemic in terms of outlining likely progress of the virus.
  2. In the UK, Covid-19 never reached a level in the community that satisfies the definition of ‘epidemic’.
  3. The mortality of the recent infection season was high, but not remarkably so : only eighth in the run of 27 years from 1993/9.

And we’re still being asked to cower behind the sofa?

119625 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to RickH, 1, #485 of 1715 🔗

The mortality of the recent infection season was high, but not remarkably so : only eighth in the run of 27 years from 1993/9.

Any chance you could wait until it’s over.

119636 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 2, #486 of 1715 🔗

Over? This will never be over with our current approach to case madness.

We are not seeing deaths or any hospitalisations however. That is they only way to cut through this. More rigorous assessment of ‘from’ and ‘of’ Covid would help too. Is that too much to ask?

119966 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #487 of 1715 🔗

If we kept the same measure as in April, it would be over. Completely over.

120873 ▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Mayo, #488 of 1715 🔗

You are trying to compare apples and oranges. If you want to compare covid ove the long term you’ll need to wait for it to be endemic and add up the effects over multiple years, then compare to long term averaged effects of the likes of flu (an endemic disease). If you want to compare the spring spike you can compare only to brief several motnh spikes of flu, as we see in the UK in winters.

119587 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 3, #489 of 1715 🔗

Mayo, or Neil, or whatever your name is, you are way, way off the mark.

You are on the same page as Neil Ferguson and other modellers, but the SIR model is a toy model that doesn’t reflect the reality of the population-wide immune system and the way it responds to small doses of viruses. Modellers don’t talk to immunologists and vice versa and that is a big problem.

The calculation of herd immunity threshold is a toy calculation based on a toy model. the reality is that enclosed populations like the Diamond Princess routinely top out at 20% showing antibodies in standard tests. This doesn’t mean that the remaining 80% weren’t exposed, or infected, and that their immune system doesn’t have some learned or innate immunity.

Oh, and Ferguson used the CFR value as his IFR – building an approximate factor-of-ten exaggeration in right at the start.

119639 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Barney McGrew, -1, #490 of 1715 🔗

You keep banging on about immunity without having a clue what level of immunity exists in the population. It’s not much more than speculation at the moment. Meanwhile SYMPTOMATC cases have been rising quite sharply over the last 2 weeks. This is step 2. Next it might be hospital cases.

Unless we have clear scientific & medical proof that significant immunity now exists we cannot assume it.

Oh, and Ferguson used the CFR value as his IFR

He used 0.9%. That was not the CFR. Read the paper.

the reality is that enclosed populations like the Diamond Princess routinely top out at 20% showing antibodies in standard tests.

Big ship. 20% infected after 11 days – then quarantine. That’s fast.

119852 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, 4, #491 of 1715 🔗

It wasn’t 20% infected. By the same theory using the R rate, everyone was infected (in that they had contact with the virus), only an average of 20% tested positive and showed symptoms.

The problem then is how do tell that it is uniquely Covid? How you eliminate other conditions? That’s been the problem from day one. So you don’t have clean data – you have high uncertainty – which feeds into your model or if high enough makes them moot.

Do you even know about the scientific method?

“Unless we have clear scientific & medical proof that significant immunity now exists we cannot assume it.”

Unless we can distinguish that we Covid causes serious problems, is a unique infection that leads to deaths greater that the flu, we CANNOT ASSUME IT.

This is a risk mitigation situation. The government got it wrong. Sweden got it right. It doesn’t matter if they had more deaths than normal (on average over the years it looks not)

119981 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, 4, #492 of 1715 🔗

Meanwhile SYMPTOMATC cases have been rising quite sharply over the last 2 weeks.

In line with a sharp rise in testing too. So what? How many have presented at hospital? How many are dying? Have those numbers increased? No. Besides, finding more potential infections with increased testing does not necessarily suggest increasing rates of infection.

Especially as hospital admission and death numbers remain flat.

120059 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 4, #493 of 1715 🔗

You are completely ignoring the fact that while we continue with the fear, the economy is dying. Many people are going to die of other causes than Covid. People are going to go without medical treatment. Eventually, probably without food.

You talk as though not knowing something ‘scientific’ means that you must always err on the side of simple-minded ‘caution’. We also don’t know how many people would test positive for flu, or TB or many other diseases. But we don’t shut the economy down. In most instances in life, doing nothing, or what comes instinctively, is the default position. People like you and Neil Ferguson have ‘got a little knowledge’ and have been given too much influence, and you think you are in a position to outflank nature – on my behalf. Ridiculous.

You are willingly throwing your life away with this crap, along with about 85% of the population. You’re going to drag me down too, but at least not willingly.

119874 ▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Mayo, 3, #494 of 1715 🔗

If I remember correctly, when Freddie Sayers asked Sunetra Gupta about her ‘50% may already have it’ study in his Unherd interview with her, she said it was simply an equally plausible counterpoint to Ferguson’s figure: not a ‘prediction’, just her guess at that time. I think she acknowledged then that the actual figure had been lower. What do you expect her to do? Constantly apologise that the figure she pulled out of the air wasn’t right?

120227 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Malcolm Ramsay, 1, #495 of 1715 🔗

In early March Fergusson estimated that 3% had it. And prevalence was doubling every 3 days back then. It does not take many doublings to get to 20%, or even 80%!!

Plus Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 tests were reporting >40% of tests as positive by late March. That measure has fallen steadily, but if you sum the area under the curve and allow for the virus being detectable for a few weeks per person, again you get >>60% having been exposed.

Herd immunity does not mean everyone has to have been infected. It just means enough have been infected to push R below 1 for the population and behavior under consideration. So there might well be a good chunk of the population (1/3?) who have not yet been infected and do not have prior immunity to corona-viruses. And so as youngsters start mixing more freely we can expect a slight uptick in prevalence – but temporary (as their resultant immunity bolsters herd immunity) and without deaths.

We KNOW the above is the reality, by looking at patterns of viral epidemic elsewhere, such as Sweden !!

119906 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mayo, 3, #496 of 1715 🔗

Ferguson is a theoretical physicist. So your point is…? His estimate was between 25k with mitigations and 510k without. He did downgrade this weeks after the lockdown was introduced.

Access to all Ferguson’s results are here: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/

Operative word with Gupta’s assertation is “may”, she did not say “has”.This is because she was theorising, not stating as fact. This was perfectly clear at the time. Ferguson’s models were taken as fact, not as theory.

Given the examples of Sweden, Belarus, Japan, Taiwan, et al, it is perfectly clear that lockdowns do not work, else the examples I quote would be in the top five, rather than Peru, Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy – all of whom had or have in place lockdowns.

Anybody who bothered to analyse the infections and deaths aboard the “Diamond Princess” would have had real world data, but the modellers, including Ferguson, decided to ignore it. That ship was a floating petri dish, and they all ignored it.

Practical data, not theory, speaks the truth.

119365 Hopper, replying to Hopper, 2, #497 of 1715 🔗

The CEBM piece was particularly interesting today. The vast majority of detected infections are of an unknown pathogen and not of Sars/Cov/2; am I right in thinking?

Otherwise have noticed a fair few comments on pieces about Long Covid mentioning that the individual the commenter knows was on a flight when they apparently caught it. Not saying that’s all cases by any stretch, but certainly not all Long Covid cases have the blood-clotting issue. We know flights can cause DVT/PE and you’re more at risk if over 40 of getting blood clots – average age for Long Covid sufferers is 42. Where someone might have just been diagnosed with PE before, now it could be Long Covid due to testing positive at some point?

119586 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Hopper, 2, #498 of 1715 🔗

I watched a particularly interesting interview with Dr Zach Bush (by Del Bigtree) who said that the covid-19 presentation seems more hypoxic than viral (you may remember the New York doctor who said he was treating patients who presented as though they were at 30,000 ft). https://zachbushmd.com/video/the-highwire/ .

119366 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 6, #499 of 1715 🔗

Nice to see the Welsh are being encouraged to grass on those humans who may be enjoying themselves. 1984

119889 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andrew, #500 of 1715 🔗

We are?

119377 TJN, replying to TJN, 15, #501 of 1715 🔗

Out of respect for Piers Corbyn and his trials of last weekend, I’ve once more emailed Geoffrey Cox, my MP. I doubt he will read this, as by now on this matter I’m probably a vexatious correspondent. I thought I’d put it up here, so at least it’s on record, and maybe give readers ideas on which to email their own MPs

The threads will be familiar to anyone on here, so don’t bother reading it to find anything new or exciting. It’s just over 5000 characters, so I’ve had to split it into two parts.

Dear Mr Cox,

It must be privilege to serve as a Member of Parliament. The opportunity to sit on those green benches, alongside the centuries of tradition and example, must bring with it a sense of great responsibility, and justifiably of humility. And your constituency, Torridge and West Devon, must count among the best to represent in the whole country. You are especially privileged in that, as well as having been a minister, you have had a successful career outside of politics, which should enable you to view events from a deeper perspective than that perceived by mono-career politicians.

But with privileges come responsibilities. By standing for and being elected to Parliament you have relinquished the right to remain silent on great matters of the day as they affect your constituents.

With the covid-19 crisis we are now six months into the greatest matter to affect our society since the Second World War. I know of no parallel in the whole of British history – not even the 1650s Commonwealth – to compare to the curtailment of rights and liberties such as has been inflicted on the British people since last March.

My view of covid-19 formed early in this crisis. As a respiratory viral infection, which is abundantly infectious for many days before symptoms appear, in a densely inhabited area such as the UK it is impossible to prevent covid-19 from spreading through most of the population. In short, the virus will do what it seeks to do largely (although not entirely) irrespective of measures to control it. Think of King Canute and the tide. The disease presents very little risk to people without underlying health problems. It may have been possible to protect vulnerable people from catching the disease, but we will never know: there was no serious attempt to do so. The government response to covid-19 has been a social, economic, and public health catastrophe. Even in the narrow terms of the disease itself, it has been highly damaging. The concomitant assault on our liberties has been wanton, sinister and malevolent – as has the associated psychological warfare directed at an essentially credulous and scientifically illiterate population. Further, I believe that the perpetrators of the government response – with their mix of incompetence, negligence, dishonesty, and even malignity – should be the subject of criminal investigation for their actions and the disastrous consequences which have entailed. Manslaughter is a serious crime; so is manslaughter repeated tens of thousands of times.

[ End Part 1. Cont.: ‘That, in a nutshell, is my view’ .]

119395 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to TJN, 1, #502 of 1715 🔗

I have drafted a letter to my MP, will be one of many, with the intention of sending it today, so if I may, I might steal a couple of excerpts from your letter.

119407 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nsklent, 5, #503 of 1715 🔗

Please do. If an MP wants to support the government line, then fine, let them do so. And stand the consequences.

What I find unforgivable is that they just hide and say and do nothing.

119434 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, 5, #504 of 1715 🔗

I have this image in my head of all these MPs going “oh, here’s another one” and either chucking actual letters in the bin or having a mass delete of all our e-mails. They clearly don’t give a toss. Even the ones I thought may have stuck their heads above the parapet, have been pretty silent.

119453 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 7, #505 of 1715 🔗

Yes, but I can quote it back at him. Next time either he or the Conservative Party are asking for votes round here, councillors too.

And I have the small consolation that I’ve tried to do something to live up to Piers Corbyn’s example.

119469 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, 3, #506 of 1715 🔗

Sorry TJN, I wasn’t saying you shouldn’t have bothered, I think your letter was brilliant, just remarking on the contempt with which they treat us.

I registered my disgust with my MP (a so-called Conservative) many months ago. Never heard back from her. In fact, have not seen her at all in the town.

119706 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 3, #507 of 1715 🔗

Oh, I know you weren’t saying I shouldn’t have bothered – sorry, been out for a bit or would have got back sooner.

I’m sure you’re are correct – they are happy to ignore this sort of stuff. That’s why I’m goading and baiting him.

I struggle to think what I can do about this shitfest. Just reading LS and making the odd comments here simply isn’t enough. So every little knock I can send their way is something.

119551 ▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to TJN, 3, #508 of 1715 🔗

The initial reaction I had to emails from month one, was standard central office gumpf or nothing, but then I was asked for supporting evidence to my argument on face masks and a month after I sent the documents I actually received a more meaningful reply which did appear to show a recognition of the point I was making. I actually think a lot of MPs are quite ignorant and have done little research themselves to enable them to challenge the government narrative, or to realise the consequences, either down to laziness, apathy or just plain old bury ones head in the sand. Possibly the chip, chip method may yield some results and sending links and evidence to them, and as your letter did, lay it clearly before them what the consequences of their actions are; it might actually dawn on some of them what the reality is. Was it not Johnson that responded Christ! When he was informed of the potential unemployment figures – we all knew, how come he didn’t figure it out. Wish IDS made a bit more noise and where is JRM, a so called lover of liberty.

119707 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nsklent, 2, #509 of 1715 🔗

Yes, we need more ‘Christ’ moments. Ignorant shower that they are.

120208 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nsklent, #510 of 1715 🔗

Busy sharpening the knives.

120384 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, #511 of 1715 🔗

Gove is the big unknown here, methinks.

120670 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nsklent, #512 of 1715 🔗

JRM? Spell out his name.

119412 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to TJN, #513 of 1715 🔗

Mr Cox is my MP also. You will get a standard reply.

119414 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Andrew, 2, #514 of 1715 🔗

I don’t get replies from him any more.

Where abouts are you, if you don’t mind me asking? I’m down south.

119424 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to TJN, #515 of 1715 🔗

North Devon

119444 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Andrew, #516 of 1715 🔗

Wonderful country around there! I’m near Tavi, so the other end of the constituency.

119378 TJN, replying to TJN, 39, #517 of 1715 🔗

[ Start Part 2. Cont. from:  ‘repeated tens of thousands of times’.]

That, in a nutshell, is my view. You are my MP; and six months into this crisis I have almost no idea of your view. As far as I know, you have had precisely nothing to say in the Commons about this matter. In public you appear to have toed the government line, although without any enthusiasm or apparent conviction, and merely repeated the patronising platitudes about ‘Following The Science’. In short, you appear to want to ride out the storm while doing and saying as little as possible. And in this craven and cynical tactic you are in company with the majority of MPs, and in particular Conservative backbench MPs.

You will be aware of the actions of Piers Corbyn and his recent encounters with the police. In summary, a ministerial decree on a Friday evening was used less than 48 hours later to inflict a £10,000 fixed penalty fine on him for speaking at a peaceful public protest. It is clear to everyone who cares to look that this fine was politically motivated. As such, it is an attack on us all. Piers Corbyn is an unlikely candidate for a national hero, but he is fast becoming a latter day John Lilburne. Likewise, you may be aware of that online video of British Transport Police assaulting an unmuzzled and peaceful traveller on a Liverpool train a few days ago. Last time I looked it had received nearly 5 million views. Most of those viewers will have been disgusted at what they saw; so should MPs, the supposed guardians of our freedoms and liberties.

As a mark of the times in which we live, activists like Piers Corbyn, and that man on the train, will have no trouble in garnering free legal support, nor in crowdfunding any fines inflicted on them.

But that is not the main point I am making here. My primary point is that this is not law: it is tyranny. Every right-thinking person has a duty to resist it. And every right-thinking MP has a duty to hold the government to account, over this and the entirety of the government’s response to covid-19.

If you support the government’s handling of covid-19, then you should come out and say so. Argue the case and attempt to justify the vast collateral damage – perhaps 200,000 additional deaths not related to covid, including up to 30,000 from treatable cancers; locking up people in their homes for weeks; closing the health service to anything but covid; the loss of schooling; relatives unable to be with loved ones as they die; the issuance of DNR certificates without permission; the discharge of covid patients into care homes; the quarantine fiasco; the muzzles outrage … If you want to defend that lot then be my guest. You can then stand accountable for what you have supported.

But if you don’t support the government line, then stand up and be counted, like the rest of us – and like Piers Corbyn, and that man on the Liverpool train. Right now they are worth more than our 650 MPs. That should make you feel ashamed.

I am not some internet troll peddling insults here. My name and address is at the bottom of this email. I’m writing nothing that I would not say to your face.

And I’m calling you out. As an MP you have no right merely to sit there and – as our society and all we have cared for and valued is falling apart – say and do nothing.

Yours till next time,
A former Conservative voter.

119387 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to TJN, 6, #518 of 1715 🔗

Wow! TJN for prime minister?

119413 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to bluemoon, 2, #519 of 1715 🔗

Maybe of Dumnonia.

The Johnson family farm and Cameron’s holiday home will be in my fiefdom …

119426 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to TJN, 4, #520 of 1715 🔗

I’d forgotten about the Cameron’s holiday home – that may explain helicopters patrolling the coast line. Well, that and observing all the people enjoying themselves on the beaches.

119396 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to TJN, 3, #521 of 1715 🔗

Excellent!

119494 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to TJN, 6, #522 of 1715 🔗

Clapping away.

The point made that if they support the lockdowns then they must own its consequences and ongoing torture our elderly are experiencing in their care home prisons.

Absolutely spot on. Stealing this for my own MP to get a taste

119511 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to TJN, 2, #523 of 1715 🔗

I hope you don’t mind if I copy this to my MP.

119711 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #524 of 1715 🔗

Please do. It’s perhaps not to everyone’s taste to bait, goad and ridicule them – but it does me.

119816 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to TJN, 1, #525 of 1715 🔗

Excellent stuff, do you mind if I use it?

119902 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to smileymiley, #526 of 1715 🔗

No copyright!

119384 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #527 of 1715 🔗

Does anyone have any up-to-date data on tests carried out. As far as I can see from the government Covid-19 website, the testing data is to 2 September, yet Handsy Hancock has been referring to a spike in positivity based on the increase in positive cases recorded in the last two days.

Is anyone else suspicious about the timing of the ‘spike’ in positivity bearing in mind the end of the consultation on the unlicensed vaccine next Friday? The ‘usual suspects’ have all been lined up and ready with their presentations to the MSM.

119422 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #528 of 1715 🔗

I’m suspicious that it coincided with school starting too, thus giving the govt an excuse to shut everything down again so that schools can stay open.

119549 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #529 of 1715 🔗

Whitty did say that,in order to open schools we may have to shut pubs

119425 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #530 of 1715 🔗

I think it is all in order to extend the emergency measures also.

119487 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Sarigan, 4, #531 of 1715 🔗

Ah yes, 26 September is when the measures are due for extension. Perhaps it is to discredit the protests as well and turn people against each other

119526 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to wendy, 1, #532 of 1715 🔗

I think that’s a highly likely suggestion.

119481 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #533 of 1715 🔗

Yes I was wondering the same. No increases in hospital admissions or deaths to any great extent in north west despite big increase in positive test results. Where are all these results coming from. Is it schools going back?

119648 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to wendy, 2, #534 of 1715 🔗

They could be just 100% made up. Is there a paper trail? What proof is there that the tests were done or how many or how sensitive the test is? It could be rigged to show false positives at any rate they want.

119657 ▶▶▶▶ David, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #535 of 1715 🔗

I’ve wondered this too. Our testing centre is always deserted. Do we even have the infrastructure to carry out many tens of thousands of tests a day, and deliver the results?

119522 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #536 of 1715 🔗

I (accidentally) had the box on yesterday when the BBC News started up with Huw Edwards with his pompous best face that he uses to pretend to be a journalist.

I quickly turned over, but still caught the News from Nowhere that related to nothing on Planet Earth – re. this invisible presence that suggest that ‘the virus’ is actually getting milder by the day if reports of supposed ‘cases’ are true, given that there is no visible impact in the real world.

Having driven back from Bristol the previous day, the disconnect with what I was seeing around in the real world (relatively few masks and people gradually getting back to sanity) was amazing.

The government and the fake science brigade seem to be really wetting themselves to keep the panic levels up with PCR tests and any other cunning plot that comes to mind.

120319 ▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #537 of 1715 🔗

They used to publish the Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 stats (tests done, positive results) daily. But around 20 August they stopped. They now only publish combined P1 and P2 positives against numbers of tests done, and only publish the daily figures once a week. Next release is due this Thursday.

119385 Thomas_E, replying to Thomas_E, 18, #538 of 1715 🔗

I work at an office near Borough Market and there most of the pubs and stall have reopened. There is a Mexican restaurant I wanted to go to with my colleagues (BTW they have tables outside) and before going in they wanted to take my details and measure my temperature. When I said I don’t comply with that they did not know what to do..They were thinking of calling the manager but I just turned around and said don’t bother…There was a place right next to them, nothing like that was not required so they got my custom. Sooner or later business will have to make a choice

119404 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Thomas_E, 9, #539 of 1715 🔗

Well done. We have to make a stand to show that we mean business and support those that don’t require all these “safety” nonsense. The hope is that in time these businesses that have stuck rigidly to all the regulations will realise that they’re not getting the footfall and either adapt or go bust.

119440 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Thomas_E, #540 of 1715 🔗

Is Boston Sausages back yet?

119461 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #541 of 1715 🔗

Borough Market is my go-to for cheese at present. All of the stallholders so obviously think the whole mask wearing thing is rubbish. Lots of smiley faces, and delicious cheese, obviously.

120767 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Thomas_E, #542 of 1715 🔗

Good for you, too bad for them.

119386 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 7, #543 of 1715 🔗

Looks like Wee Krankie’s gone toto mento. threatening to shut down the Scottish economy…again.

119842 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, #544 of 1715 🔗

Maybe she’s got tangled in that rope she’s been running with. Pity. Not.

120769 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to OKUK, #545 of 1715 🔗

That woman is psychotic. Needs a straightjacket.

119409 HaylingDave, 11, #546 of 1715 🔗

Gosh that Disneyland postcard seems dreadful.

A few weeks ago, I was at Thorpe park, and I was going to write a postcard from there, but it would pale in comparison to what’s above.

Thorpe park was a fairly miserable experience (booked in Jan before The Madness).

Massive queue’s for even the shittiest of rides because rides were shut every hour (!) for a deep clean of 30+ minutes or more, and rides are loaded about 50-60% full.

Tannoy announcements every 5 minutes (!) reminding you of Covid-19 related safety protocols.

The inconsistent application of face masks edicts seemed boggling! I can be in a snaky queue standing and sitting within 1 meter of strangers without a mask for 60-90 minutes, but as soon as I get on a rollercoaster seated next to my son with my family in the seats in front (and an empty row between them and the next group), I have to put on a mask?

My youngest is 9 and a Nazi-mask enforcer pointed a finger at him on one ride and simply yelled: “MASK!” when he wasn’t wearing his. When I politely mentioned he was under 11 and exempt, she said: “Well, he’ll have to go at the back then.” I’m pretty sure that’s illegal/immoral, but let it go – it was his day afterall.

And masks: dirty, wet, sweaty, soggy ones hanging off people’s chins, foreheads and ears (when f*cking hell did this become acceptable – walk around like some right twat with a mask dangling off a single ear??). Not to mention mask debris everywhere.

The only partially positive experience I had (giving Thorpe park a 3/10 on the Covidwankometer scale) is no one enforcing masks in Burger King, KFC, toilets, in-door concession stands, and when I went into the theatre and was asked to put on a mask, I started to reach for my exemption card and was told (by a smiling face behind a shield): “Oh it’s okay,” and was shown to a row.

A small moment of sanity – sadly, sometimes that’s all we get.

Dare I say it, but with *ANY* sort of Covid-19 related restrictions in place, I won’t be at any amusement park. Thankfully, both my sons and wife agreed!

Cheers
Dave

119430 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #547 of 1715 🔗

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/09/07/covid-19-testing-1000-times-too-sensitive/ – Anthony Watts usually comments on climate change, but has also looked at SARS-COV-2/Covid19, as in the link above

119465 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to p02099003, #548 of 1715 🔗

Excellent.

If I had a test, would I be able to get the cycles information for that test? Would labs have that information readily avaliable on their databases?

119431 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #549 of 1715 🔗

Tucker: The COVID pandemic empowered mediocre politicians

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pobO-C1TPbQ

119493 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #550 of 1715 🔗

I like Tucker, he talks a lot of sense. Thanks.

119433 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 44, #551 of 1715 🔗

I’m absolutely fuming. Just received all the details of what hoops we have to jump through upon returning to work. Won’t bore you with all the insane details but one thing jumped out at me – you will not be allowed into work unless you can confirm:

“I have been complying with all of the Government’s social distancing
rules at all times.”

What the flying fuck?!! Who the hell are they to tell me how to live my life when I am away from work??? I certainly have not been complying with the idiot governments totally ridiculous, contradictory and arbitary rules and I have absolutely no intention of doing so.

119443 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Chicot, 13, #552 of 1715 🔗

Sleepwalking into authoritarian rule.

119445 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Chicot, 11, #553 of 1715 🔗

They have something similar at my work…I just ignore it…Fuck them

119755 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #554 of 1715 🔗

Sound advice, methinks.

119449 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Chicot, 4, #555 of 1715 🔗

What is the actual reason for that confirmation to be required? Is it a legal thing so they can’t be sued for any infections detected among their staff?

Unfortunately, when it comes to our jobs, there is little we can do but bite our lips – for now. We just have to ensure we support the pushback in whatever other ways we can.

119460 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Chicot, 8, #556 of 1715 🔗

And BTW…how the fuck do they know what you did before entering the office…They don’t so this is something they are not able to either confirm or enforce..Stupidity to the highest level

119476 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #557 of 1715 🔗

Well, they don’t. Although if I was arrested at an anti-lockdown protest they might find out! I’m wondering about the legality of this though nowadays who knows?

119484 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Chicot, 3, #558 of 1715 🔗

we have seen how unwoke comments people have made on social media when they were younger have come back to bite them and in extreme cases caused problems with work.

119468 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Chicot, 4, #559 of 1715 🔗

Everyone has to lie more and more tin these times! Perhaps this is more about their insurance policy. I can see workers telling tales on each other, making us have to lie and be crafty even more.

119509 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to wendy, 18, #560 of 1715 🔗

That was life in Soviet Russia. Lie, cheat the system, fear your neighbour, grass on your neighbour.

This is just horrible at so many levels. What are we doing to ourselves…

119545 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stewart, 8, #561 of 1715 🔗

That is life under all totalitarian systems.The government is building a nice new one

119477 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Chicot, 2, #562 of 1715 🔗

i used to work contract (well still do except the contract market is dead) and it was a standard joke about being able to sue other contractors who gave you a cold which meant you had to take unpaid sick time .
Not so funny now .

119497 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Chicot, 2, #563 of 1715 🔗

Just ignore it. Unless someone grasses you up, keep calm and carry on

119555 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to Chicot, 5, #564 of 1715 🔗

Each employee has an individual contract of employment with their employer, and unless you have agreed to changes in that contract that specify that the employer has control of your actions outside of work, you do not have to comply.

They may have some generic clause in their contract with you about ‘behaviour’, but I doubt that it was ever intended for such circumstances, so they would be on very thin ice trying to enforce some sort of compliance at this time.

I would suggest that if you belong to a union you seek clarification from them, but given form what I’ve seen elsewhere, they are as worse, if not more so, in demanding adherence to all the rules and regulations, and then some!

Good luck and Illegitimi non carborundum!

119592 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Gtec, 6, #565 of 1715 🔗

Yeah. Unions have a ‘Don’t return to work until its safe’ mantra to beat the government and big businesses with. So they welcome any silly bit of safe theatre to make it look as if they’ve made some kind of difference.

Socialist parties have been disgraceful throughout this, especially the way this is all top down WEF, WHO, directed

119629 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Chicot, 5, #566 of 1715 🔗

Curious. I believe you can’t be asked if you have a serious disease, like HIV or Tuberculosis. That would be a breach of your privacy. But those are only serious diseases. We need a special policy for Covid, apparently.

119646 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Chicot, 2, #567 of 1715 🔗

Rules as in the law, or guidance? There is a big difference. However, I agree that this is a complete invasion of privacy.

119864 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to DressageRider, 1, #568 of 1715 🔗

To be honest I don’t what are rules (or guidelines) are anymore as they seem to make it up as they go along. I doubt our HR department has anymore clue either.

119674 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Chicot, 7, #569 of 1715 🔗

Yup, pretty much why I got fired a few days back.

The headline was that I was guily of gross misconduct for not believing there is currently a pandemic.

119839 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to ikaraki, 3, #570 of 1715 🔗

Trust you have instigated legal proceedings against them?

119869 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to ikaraki, 2, #571 of 1715 🔗

I’m hoping the same does not happen to me but we are living in strange times.

119754 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Chicot, 2, #572 of 1715 🔗

Four options:
1. Lie.
2. Tell them to fuck off.
3. Ask them what the regulations are and were, and the dates those regulations have changed, so that you can check you’ve complied.
4. Tell them you’ve been on BLM demos.

If you want to be smart, you could just say that the ‘rules’ were just guidelines and as such they were not law.

119806 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Chicot, #573 of 1715 🔗

Wonder if law or fiction can look into this

119435 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 8, #574 of 1715 🔗

So the MSM are starting at last to question ‘The Figures’. DM at it.

‘Fewer than 2.5% of Covid-19 tests in the UK are positive, data shows’

https://mol.im/a/8705951

They’re not quite there yet, but you can sense they’re feeling their way towards asymptomatic positives might, just might be ‘false positives’. In which case, Mr Hancock, you might need a few of those cardboard boxes they give you when you have to clear your desk. And Boris may need a few more.

119442 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #575 of 1715 🔗

By winter we could be looking at around 170,000 false positives.

https://logicinthetimeofcovid.com/2020/09/08/why-are-we-seeing-an-increase-in-cases/

Good analysis in general on the issue of false positives. It’s an as easy to unpick as some might think, but it’s certainly a serious issue when we are so obsessed with cases.

119805 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to James Leary #KBF, #576 of 1715 🔗

Neither of them will be missed.

119438 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 12, #577 of 1715 🔗

I’ve just had a text message from my medical practice about this year’s flu jab in which they say ‘we will have to do things a little different this year’. I have three options :

1) Drive through at the place where they do Covid-19 testing
2) Walk through at the church hall
3) I won’t be having the vaccination this year.

A week after having the flu jab last year I was in bed for four days on pain killers so it’s going to have to be…………Option C.

119456 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Biggles, 5, #578 of 1715 🔗

Nice to see that option C is still an option. Let’s see how long it lasts.

119472 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Biggles, 5, #579 of 1715 🔗

For the first time in 11 years I received a reminder to book an appointment for a flu jab. I have never had one and don’t intend to start now.

119508 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #580 of 1715 🔗

Me neither. I signed a form years ago to say I would never have a flu jab, and still occasionally, in January or thereabouts, I get a reminder. And I think, oh they’ve still got a lot of packets sitting on their shelves.

119482 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Biggles, 1, #581 of 1715 🔗

I have no idea what is fact or fiction anymore!

119663 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, #583 of 1715 🔗

A worrying article..

119489 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Biggles, 5, #584 of 1715 🔗

so they cant do it via phone call or video..(as with all other consultations) – how disappointing

119521 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to mjr, 4, #585 of 1715 🔗

Here’s an idea – remotely administered injections. Send the patient a loaded syringe via secure courier. Syringe has some kind of electronic whizzery in it, patient instructed to hold syringe to the injection site, doctor presses the big red button from the comfort of his empty surgery and the needle shoots out and injects the drug. Job done.

119596 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #586 of 1715 🔗

There’s many a true word …

120885 ▶▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to A. Contrarian, #587 of 1715 🔗

Hint, give up on that method. Vaccines are a nightmare to transport, have to be kept chilled or they become ineffective. The only way to get a vaccine easily deplyoed orlwide is to go for patch vaccines, a sticker of invisibly smal microneedles that you press on the skin, no pain, no trained personnel needed, no storage dificulties, pop it in the normal post. If the NHS ever wants me to get a covid vacine, once it has been out a few years and no serious effects have been seen to be common, they can put it in patch form, I hate needles. I contemplated a flu jab almost a decade ago, said I would pay but upon seeing my only option was a needle (patch technology has been in development that long) gave up and haven’t sought such innoculations since.

120238 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #588 of 1715 🔗

The GPs won’t be around, just nurses.

119457 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #589 of 1715 🔗

https://bjgp.org/content/early/2020/09/07/bjgp20X712601 reports on the discrepancy between GPs reporting possible Covid19 and those testing positive. With BAME being most at risk.
The number of cases as suspected by GPs is significantly higher than those who test positive. It is suggested that GP suspicions should be used as an early warning for potential problems. However, going out on a limb, I would suggest that the GPs were being overly cautious, especially since most of those they suspected of having covid19 were in the 18-49 age range.

119626 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to p02099003, 2, #590 of 1715 🔗

GP reporting? LOL. They are all sitting at home with their feet up. How do you get to see a GP these days?

119458 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #591 of 1715 🔗

This lot are the ones behind the tourism and travel bullshit in theme parks and so on:

https://wttc.org/COVID-19/Safe-Travels-Global-Protocols-Stamp

Nothing in their “new normal’ encourages me to feels are nor will it encourage me to spend my own hard earned money travel for pleasure until this nonsense is dropped unless forced to by the wife.

CEO and a few others are all WEF linked and/or graduates of WEF education programmes.

Notice all documents have “new normal” in the title?

119580 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #592 of 1715 🔗

Grim.

119620 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #593 of 1715 🔗

I just sent them a suitable comment via the Contact Us link. Please, everyone, do likewise.

119680 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, 1, #594 of 1715 🔗

I’ve written to them with my rebuttal of this:

https://wttc.org/COVID-19/Government-Hub/Global-coordination-to-save-the-sector

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Agv7JEO8MngCiUKobYEvbSO77JTA?e=TPzxY9
Plus sent a letter to Cunard asking them if they know and agree to what the WTTC is doing in their name but might work through the list of signatories as well if I get bored:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Agv7JEO8MngCiUC5qpLgQuOGO_UK?e=tL2UmR

119683 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #595 of 1715 🔗

No doesn’t help I’m afraid.

No interest in changing one dystopian experience for a different dystopian experience with a few hours of hell in between unless forced to.

119459 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #596 of 1715 🔗

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/09/07/covid-19-testing-1000-times-too-sensitive/ Dr. Michael Mina , an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, says that “The standard tests are diagnosing huge numbers of people who may be carrying relatively insignificant amounts of the virus… Tests with thresholds so high may detect not just live virus but also genetic fragments, leftovers from infection that pose no particular risk — akin to finding a hair in a room long after a person has left”.

119491 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #597 of 1715 🔗

This was news 5 months ago

119577 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mhcp, 2, #598 of 1715 🔗

I have noticed a lot of sleepy sheep talking about it this week however, as is the lag between real news reporting and the msm.

Some calling it Fake News and the government massaging the numbers. That the virus is the plague and anything counter to it is misinformation from conspiracy theorists.

But at least they are now talking about it. They’ll never open their mind to the possibility of error however, they’ll just dig a deeper hole

119466 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 11, #599 of 1715 🔗

https://www.rebelnews.com/australias_shame_watch_melbourne_police_bodyslam_our_reporter_covering_a_pandemic_lockdown_protest?utm_campaign=el_stand_with_avi_uk&utm_medium=email&utm_source=therebel

Rebel News: AUSTRALIA’S SHAME: Watch Melbourne police bodyslam our reporter covering a pandemic lockdown protest

https://www.rebelnews.com/police_state_canadian_journalist_arrested_on_the_street_for_breaking_story_on_crooked_mayor
POLICE STATE: Canadian journalist arrested on the street for breaking story on crooked mayor

Funny how the politicians and police are behaving in exactly the same heavy-handed authoritarian way against anyone who questions their authority, whether in Canada, or Australia, or in the UK.

And they call Donald Trump the Nazi…..

119502 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Lms23, 2, #600 of 1715 🔗

the australian video is bad.. The canadian one isn’t really relevant as this is standard bent politican influencing cops – which is something that has always happened

119478 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #601 of 1715 🔗

We cannot live in terror cut off from the world. We MUST get Britain open again, writes Professor SIR JOHN BELL, Regius Chair of Medicine at Oxford Universityhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8707341/SIR-JOHN-BELL-live-terror-cut-world-Britain-open-again.html

119530 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #602 of 1715 🔗

Regular testing needs to become the norm for most of the population – and I have no doubt it will.”

Are you sure you agree with this?

119588 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Sally, 2, #603 of 1715 🔗

No it doesn’t. We aren’t cattle.

120270 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #605 of 1715 🔗

It’s a load of pro-2nd wave, pro-vaccine, pro-testing bollox.

119496 Lms23, 2, #606 of 1715 🔗

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pobO-C1TPbQ

Tucker: The COVID pandemic empowered mediocre politicians

119501 Basics, replying to Basics, 18, #607 of 1715 🔗

https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/its-now-looking-like-the-lockdowns-may-have-been-a-huge-mistake/

“Governors imposing continued lockdowns claimed to be “following the science.” But only in one dimension: reducing the immediate number of COVID-19 cases. The lockdowns also prevented cancer screenings, heart-attack treatment and substance-abuse counseling, the absence of which resulted in a large but hard-to-estimate number of deaths. What Haidt and Lukianoff call “vindictive protectiveness” turned out to be not very protective.

“Examples include shaming beachgoers though outdoor virus spread is minimal; extending school shutdowns though few children get or transmit the infection; closing down gardening aisles in superstores; and barring church services while blessing inevitably noisy and crowded demonstrations for politically favored causes.

“The new thinking on lockdowns, as Greg Ip reported in the Wall Street Journal last week, is that “they’re overly blunt and costly.” That supports President Trump’s mid-April statement that “A prolonged lockdown combined with a forced economic depression would inflict an immense and wide-ranging toll on public health.”

“For many, that economic damage has been of Great Depression proportions. Restaurants and small businesses have been closed forever, even before the last three months of “mostly peaceful” urban rioting. Losses have been concentrated on those with low income and little wealth, while lockdowns have added tens of billions to the net worth of Amazon’s Jeff Bezos and Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg.

“The anti-lockdown blogger (and former New York Times reporter) Alex Berenson makes a powerful case that lockdowns delayed, rather than prevented, infections.

“There are old lessons here. Governments can sometimes channel but never entirely control nature. There is no way to entirely eliminate risk. Attempts to reduce one risk may increase others. Amid uncertainty, people make mistakes. Like, maybe, the lockdowns.”

119514 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Basics, 7, #608 of 1715 🔗

We are living through ‘The Great Suppression’ aren’t we?

119778 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 2, #609 of 1715 🔗

Now the MSM is, albeit slowly, turning, time is running out for the government.

119506 Will, 1, #610 of 1715 🔗

Could someone please post the graph showing “+the” tests as a percentage of the daily tests, please.

119546 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #612 of 1715 🔗

It’s a cast iron certainty, and has been obvious since as early as April when the first rumours started circulating.

The only question is when. If I was a betting man I’d put my money on mid-October by the latest, to last for at least 6 months. I’ve seen various references to this as the “Darkest Winter” on the internet.

I’m in two minds as to whether to start prepping, for one simple reason: do I really want to survive this?

119656 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, #613 of 1715 🔗

Links re the ‘darkest winter’?

119669 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 1, #614 of 1715 🔗

Hundreds of them, below a duckduckgo search:

“darkest winter”

119769 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 2, #616 of 1715 🔗

Yes, and we survive it by ignoring it as far as we can. Don’t comply.

119556 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #617 of 1715 🔗

A freudian slip from Peston:

…Joint Biosecurity Centre, which is charged with advising the government on whether the rate of injection is rising in a dangerous way.

120272 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #618 of 1715 🔗

One source says that this is a response to the ‘early warning system’ from the Joint Biosecurity Centre, which is charged with advising the government on whether the rate of injection is rising in a dangerous way.

Freudian slip?

119518 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 33, #619 of 1715 🔗

Control?

Where are all those Conservative MPs demanding and end to this Covid nonsense.

Worldometers

UK – 3 reported deaths.
Europe – Reported Covid 19 deaths: 263
Total population of Europe over 741,000,000 people

Why is the Government wheeling out all the experts saying cases are rising ‘exponentially’? If you keep testing you’ll get positive tests. Most of these people aren’t ill.

This is madness. It looks like the Government gearing up for another lockdown. What happened so far has been a disaster.

Is Boris Johnson aware that Peru went into lockdown before Britain and now has the highest Covid death rate in the world. Much higher than no lockdown Brazil.

We can’t live our lives behind masks, walking around perspex. It’s crazy. The likes of Jonathan Van-Tam and Chris Whitty seem to like their unelected power far too much.

119535 ▶▶ Will, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #620 of 1715 🔗

The politicians are manufacturing their “we have beaten it” moment.

119576 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #621 of 1715 🔗

I doubt the PM is aware of Peru, or much else really. He’s probably aware of Sweden in so far as he advisers tell him not to mention it. No evidence he’s remotely interested in considering this issue properly.

119589 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Julian, 5, #622 of 1715 🔗

I doubt the PM is aware of Peru, or much else really.

Boris probably knows Paddington Bear came from Darkest Peru, but that’s about it.

119534 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 22, #623 of 1715 🔗

I’ve just written to my MP asking what she and her colleagues have been doing for the last few months, and asking that she oppose any attempt by the government to extend the Coronavirus Act at the end of September.
I concluded by saying that I have lived through various crises including the Cold War and the threat of nuclear annihilation, the miners strike, the ‘weapons of mass destruction’ panic, threats from a variety of diseases and viruses and I have never, ever, been as angry and worried about the future as I am now.
I’m not very hopeful.

119561 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Suitejb, 10, #624 of 1715 🔗

I’m thinking of writing a complaint to the Parliament Standards Commissioner about the behaviour of all the MPs as mine never acknowledges correspondence:

Kathryn Stone OBE
Office of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA

standardscommissioner@parliament.uk

The reasons:

On various webpages about Parliamentary standards and the associated Code of Conduct:

“Members shall never undertake any action which would cause

significant damage to the reputation and integrity of the House of Commons as a whole, or of its Members generally.”

“Members have a general duty to act in the interests of the nation as a whole; and a special duty to their constituents.”

Accountability

Holders of public office are accountable for their decisions and actions to the public and must submit themselves to whatever scrutiny is appropriate to their office.

Openness

“Holders of public office should be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions that they take. They should give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only when the wider public interest clearly demands.”

“Holders of public office should take decisions solely in terms of the public interest.”

As I asked my MP in a recent letter and e-mail:

“So derogating and give away responsibility and oversight of the law making process of this country, destroying the fabric of society, destroying social cohesion and turning people and families against each other, splitting up families, refusing dying and vulnerable people visits from their loved ones for months on end “for their own good”, allowing people to die alone without comfort or human contact, destroying the economy, destroying the livelihoods of millions of people, destroying businesses, racking up billions of Pounds of debt for future generations to pay off, of dragging millions of people into penury, debt and hunger, both MPs and Ministers refusing to answer constituent’s/the electorate’s correspondence and questions is:

– in the public interest?
– in the interest of the nation as a whole?
– is not causing significant damage to the reputation and integrity of the house?
– being as open as possible?
– giving reasons for the decisions?
– submitting to the scrutiny appropriate to the office?
– helping to make laws?
– scrutinising the work of Government?”

119563 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #625 of 1715 🔗

Just found this site about the parliament Standards Commissioner:

http://www.intelligenceuk.com/newsx10.html

119573 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #626 of 1715 🔗

The endless policing videos have now become a feature of Lockdown in recent weeks. As though a tap has been turned on, by whom and for what purpose?

The pyschological effect of seeing police brutality is strong. People feel angered and ill in the moments watching. Normal instinctive reactions to witnessing oppression.

With all that said it is important to keep in mind these are small in number compared to the large numbers of people who are peacefully dissenting and asserting their rights around the world. Don’t be discouraged by seeing these images – they are amplified to do just that.

Arrests are being done publicly for effect. Corbyn manhandled when he could have been picked up at home next day. Theatre.

The DT yesterday covered the video of a 12 year old girl in Hong Kong being chased by police grabbed to the ground and arrested for not socially distancing.

https://t.co/4BuoAiUHFF?amp=1

If you have the ability time is now to stand peacefully with others.

119581 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Basics, 2, #627 of 1715 🔗

The worry is that following the outrage nothing happens and the situation becomes normalised and those who are against all this simply despair even more.

119601 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stewart, 2, #628 of 1715 🔗

Yes if the outrage is frustrated by the police. I sense a reaction away from LS among the younger LSs elsewhere the arrests are playing badly in term of respect for the police.

Viewing causes a primal reaction, keeping a lid on the anger might become our struggle. Being aware of the instinct helps.

119691 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 3, #629 of 1715 🔗

They are playing with fire in this area (assuming the increase in police brutality videos is part of the plan).

Once channelled and constructively directed, outrage and anger are extremely powerful emotions.

119712 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 1, #630 of 1715 🔗

This is my concern too.

119792 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #631 of 1715 🔗

Concern ? We want an end to all this bollocks, yes ?

119899 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #632 of 1715 🔗

Good one. Let’s have a riot a break stuff up. Do the bidding of the establishment to bring in harsher lockups and curfews.

Without a full scale revolution coup with rolling heads a purile fire storm riot is going to get us know where. It’s probably likely that’s why there hasn’t been one.

If you are concerned I might no want an end to this situation you are mistaken. Very much mistaken.

120075 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #633 of 1715 🔗

If only I’d said ‘constructively’ …

119719 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to stewart, 1, #634 of 1715 🔗

What we see in these videos is only the last act and who knows what has taken place before. Filming often only starts when things get interesting. We rarely hear an outcome either, it’s a scene intended to shock.

119585 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Basics, 4, #635 of 1715 🔗

I thought it was particularly nasty that in one of his arrests he was handcuffed – as if six burly police officers couldn’t control him. Mr. Johnson ought to be asked if he supports those police methods.

119605 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #636 of 1715 🔗

It’s probably “standard practice” now for the scum to handcuff everyone they arrest. I remember a while ago an 80+ year-old woman being handcuffed for some trivial matter. And don’t forget – everyone arrested is abused and humiliated back at the police station by being photographed, fingerprinted and DNA raped. And virtually all offences, however trivial, are now deemed arrestable offences.

120282 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #637 of 1715 🔗

Not standard practice. My police friend hasn’t used her cuffs once since starting work. Depends how thuglike are the individuals concerned.

119602 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 4, #638 of 1715 🔗

I agree and it’s a cause for serious concern.
My friend came this morning. She’s a recently-qualified PC. She knew nothing about what’s really going on. Left looking rather worried.
I mentioned about the guy at White Rose yesterday and she noted that those incidents are all that gets circulated so are blown out of proportion.
I completely agreed but pointed out that we’ve some very hard times ahead and the Police need to stay on the side of the public and need us to side with them. Idiots like the PC at White Rose don’t do the cause any favours.
Unfortunately, clips of the police helping people don’t tend to get made, let alone circulated.

119611 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Basics, 2, #639 of 1715 🔗

I have no way of knowing whether anything I see that seems amateur filming is in fact what it portrays.
I do know that the intent to condition the mind of the many is being effected by the few using every kind of resource and strategy, and so I look always to the truth in the heart – as the underlying context for whether to or how to respond.

This is an era where fakery knows no limits.
Truth is not defined or contained in the forms or appearances of anything. If we react to external appearances as ‘self-contained’ truth, we are PHISHED.

You give the world all the meaning it has for you. In connection at the heart extends the heart of compassion. In the disconnect of mind in reaction, the projection of sympathies and antipathies operates the symbols of good set against evil – and indeed the good set or defined by fear, guilt and denial.

The set up is the frame in which an Expression of the Creative, is induced to consent to attack as a hate that WANTS to hurt and destroy – so as to give UP or abnegate creative agency to a dissociated mind – set in claim of right to power over anything that does not support its claim.

Yes this is a bit deeper than Peppa Pig. But I look to restore an integrative Perspective, not to reinforce distorted parodies of life set in hollow masquerade.

119681 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Binra, #640 of 1715 🔗

Exactly great points.

119612 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Basics, 2, #641 of 1715 🔗

I’ve been thinking this a lot too.Most of these videos are showing up on social media, which as we know is being heavily monitored and manipulated. I understand footage of the arrest of the pregnant girl in Victoria has been shown to be a fake,but the emotional impact of watching this, and the other videos, seems to be designed to get people angry, frustrated and upset, and to see the police as “them” and “us”. It’s more likely to create friction at protests. So I take these videos with a pinch of salt – they certainly don’t reflect what I see actually happening in my neck of the woods.

Creating fear and anger is playing into the agenda’s hands. I completely agree that we need to meet anger with peace, and not do anything to provoke the police whilst standing up for what we believe in.

119654 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Quernus, 4, #642 of 1715 🔗

Was that footage of the pregnant girl faked? Haven’t heard this…

119894 ▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Carrie, #643 of 1715 🔗

This website was shared last week – https://reclaim-democracy.weebly.com/ . Now this might be fake too, but I remember when I first watched the footage, something didn’t ring true about this.

120888 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Quernus, #644 of 1715 🔗

I understand footage of the arrest of the pregnant girl in Victoria has been shown to be a fake

Apparently not.

119641 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 1, #645 of 1715 🔗

I think you have hit on something really important here. These videos are being used for psychological intimidation, and are not being censored on social media.

Some of them look staged. If the police really were being brutal, the first thing they would do is smash the devices of anyone filming them. If people really were being harassed, they would be pleading with the people filming them to make sure that the police brutality is recorded and distributed. Instead both parties dutifully perform their roles without even acknowledging that they are being filmed.

119675 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, #646 of 1715 🔗

I haven’t seen any that look staged in the sense that the police and arrestee are in cahoots. But I don’t think thats what you mean anyway.

I’m thinking orders from above have ‘witless’ order following police acting as we see.

A relevant detail from Trafalger square was the passing on the 28th of the new stat instrument allowing junior police to issue fines. Piers Corbyn’s statement said the arresting squad were not the same group the organisers had been arranging the day with.

120286 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #647 of 1715 🔗

The arresters were the TSG. Different ballgame.

119888 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Richard O, #648 of 1715 🔗

No. I have watched a lot of internet footage of the UK police – pre COVID – got lost down a youtube rabbit hole once.

People DO film all arrests and police interactions now, because the police film too. You do need that if you don’t trust the police, to provide proof. And lots of people don’t trust the police. Understandably so as so few police seem to comprehend the limits of their powers.

Read Iain Gould’s blog. There are some absolutely shocking examples of police behaviour which would never have seen redress if people didn’t film members of their family being unlawfully detained.

119574 Binra, replying to Binra, 3, #649 of 1715 🔗

Wow – it takes all sorts to make a world.
I have long regarded Disneyworld as dystopian conditioning – even before maskworld was opened.
If its any comfort to those who hate the ‘social exclusion’ and divisions of a broken worldview to a ‘masked agenda’ – know that there is nothing new under the Sun – and that it seems new because an old ‘normal’ never was real. When ‘unreality regroups’ in even tighter and denser masking of sacrificial rites set over human rights, and you find you simply CANNOT consent – then rejoice, your life has called you from nightmare – even if the symptoms still persist.
Relative to not even knowing the mind of presumed reality was in error – you now have a spark of sanity from which to live differently. If you so choose.
Or you can remake an identity in grievance, suffer a ‘bedwetting’ world and make a bubble of anti ‘whatever’ in search of reinforcement or indeed more soap (drama).

119661 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Binra, 4, #650 of 1715 🔗

Great perspective. The surreal nature of the descendent path our civilisation has taken was already well established long ago. What we are observing now is the final reveal – literally an apocalypse – to alert all those with eyes to see. It is now getting so absurd that I am struggling to take it seriously. Maybe this is one of the critical lessons.

119578 PaulC, replying to PaulC, 11, #651 of 1715 🔗

Just written to the Sunday Times Travel Section who had this charming request last Sunday:

‘Have you spotted your fellow passengers not wearing masks on the plane? Let us know at travel@sunday-times.co.uk

Why are you trying to encourage this? There is enough abuse being given to those of us who are exempt. Not all disabilities are visible.

#Stasi-Times

119593 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to PaulC, 4, #652 of 1715 🔗

Glad you did it. It is shocking how even newspapers participate in bullying people with exemptions from wearing a mask. How dare they? It is disability discrimination

119579 John Ballard, 1, #653 of 1715 🔗

I see the ONS stats are about 800 extra deaths on the 5 year average. NOT Covid as that is next to nothing. It will be people denied Dr’s, Hospitals etc for month after month. Plus I imagine additional suicides and people giving up as the Government has turned a problem into a disaster.
You would think the MP’s would be asking questions of Boris, but they are all as bad as each other. Biggest bunch of weak willed halfwits we have ever had to run the country. And as for Hancock…..well…..the man makes Boris look intelligent as he awaits for his future Knighthood and mega future pension whilst ruining the country and millions of people lives.

119583 Andrew, 1, #654 of 1715 🔗

You may laugh but this is where we are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxznGIj8Ja0

119597 Danny, replying to Danny, 11, #655 of 1715 🔗

So my daughter’s primary school has reopened this week. They sent a letter home ordering parents to wear masks when outside the school, collecting their children.
In the public street. Apart from the illegality of this demand, what astonishes and saddens me more, is that as of this morning, I was the only one refusing to do so.
Then her actual teacher apparently stands at the front of the class teaching, and then every time a kid asks for his help, he dons a visor before going across to them. Oh and he has also banned kids from bringing reading books in from home, insisting they must have books that stay at school, and books for home separate. Apparently, it is a “covid regulation”.
Tried to fathom the thinking behind that one but am at a loss.

119695 ▶▶ anon, replying to Danny, 3, #656 of 1715 🔗

this is a person entrusted with parting knowledge to children?

119750 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Danny, #657 of 1715 🔗

It’ll be a ‘covid regulation’ he’s pulled out of his arse.

119940 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Danny, 1, #658 of 1715 🔗

Yep, same with my little one. And the only parent not in a muzzle. Couldn’t care less.

119598 Nobody2020, 3, #659 of 1715 🔗

Jeremy Vine apologises for Matt Hancocks unfortunate name:

https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1303253036001832960

119614 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #660 of 1715 🔗

Some worrying sabre rattling:

Last night, after the number of new coronavirus cases in the UK came close to 3,000 for the second day in a row, Prof Jonathan Van-Tam , England’s deputy chief medical officer, offered rather a chilling warning. “People have relaxed too much,” he said “Now is the time for us to re-engage and realise that this is a continuing threat to us.” Describing the increase in case numbers as “big change”, he said;

…. people might like to say ‘oh well it’s gone away’ – this hasn’t gone away. And if we’re not careful, if we don’t take this incredibly seriously from this point in we’re going to have a bumpy ride over the next few months.

This morning Robert Jenrick, …. essentially backed Van-Tam’s message. He urged people to take “great care”.
The coronavirus is still with us so we all need to take great care. There is a concerning rise in cases and it reminds us that we have to keep following the guidance.
Although we are encouraged to return to the workplace to support jobs, cafes and so on, we need to do so responsibly … Nobody wants to see a return to full national restrictions of the kind we had earlier this year.

From Grad live

119640 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #661 of 1715 🔗

So we have been in lockdown, walking round like automotons, prevented from gatherings, parties, weddings etc., and seeing relatives, masked up, and they declare cases are rising and to expect high flu cases – so if all these ridiculous restrictions successfully stop virus spread, why are cases rising, never mind it isn’t really an issue with no associated illness, and why should the flu virus be so prevalent this winter. So by their logic we will carry on with the destruction of life, society and the economy even though it is blatantly useless. There is some MP claiming ‘ deadly wave ‘ and demanding zero covid; but no mention of deaths and illness from denied medical care, deaths from suicide. Nope, just plain old Covid.

119702 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #662 of 1715 🔗

Yes, I clocked these two wankers manufacturing Fear out of thin air.

119622 ajb97b, 6, #663 of 1715 🔗

PROOF – the vast majority of RT-PCR tests identify false positives, and so do NOT need to be quarantined.

The report on this page ( https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1808/rapid-responses ) from Brendan Healy et al (Public Health Wales) shows that in this current era of low prevalence, >80% (26/31) of PCR positives are weak signals.

And those 26 were pretty much ALL false positives (19/19 were negative when retested)

Furthermore, it is also now known that true positives represent subjects who were infected anything up to a few months earlier – and these people are only infectious for about 1 week (typically days 3-10). Therefore, many of the <20% that were not false positives will not be infectious.

So overall, perhaps only a few percent of all “RT-PCR positives” (in the absence of retesting) should be required to quarantine. And these will generally be symptomatic individuals – i.e., people who are very aware they feel unwell and so are most likely isolating themselves anyway.

119638 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 7, #664 of 1715 🔗

My latest missive to my MP, a junior Minister. Won’t do any good but it makes me feel better. Listened to Toby’s Quillette podcast interview with Douglas Murray yesterday and Douglas’ plea that “The silent majority needs to speak up – now.” really hit home.

Dear

What has happened to our Parliamentary democracy?

I am writing to ask you what action you intend to take over the complete side-lining of Parliament by The Government during the recent Covid-19 epidemic? Instead of Ministers bringing legislation before both Houses of Parliament with debates, readings, votes and Royal assent, we have the appalling spectacle of rule by statutory instrument. At the last count 133 regulations had become law by statutory instruments made by ministers (mostly Matt Hancock), many of them making new criminal offences, and none of them having been considered by Parliament. Thus last week, Mr Hancock made a new law allowing a fixed penalty notice (FPN) of £10,000 to be issued for organising a political demonstration and  Piers Corbyn was the first to be caught by this. The quasi-criminal procedure of the FPN was originally devised to deal with minor parking and traffic offences. Over the years their use has expanded, to include minor public order incidents, litter, dog fouling and the like. Until the Coronavirus Regulations the maximum fine under a FPN was £500 for permitting noise from a licensed premises. The procedure has now been deployed, with 2 days’ notice and no Parliamentary scrutiny of any sort, to target the organiser of a political meeting with a sum 20 times greater than any fixed penalty ever before created under English law. This is unprecedented and deeply disturbing and no less so because it is being used against a crank. No doubt you will say that this is all justified by the current “public health emergency” but it is quite clear that the Covid-19 epidemic has long since passed with very few hospital admissions and small numbers of deaths despite hugely increased testing detecting asymptomatic cases.
I look forward to hearing how you propose to help Parliament to regain its role of scrutinising regulations and holding the Government to account.
Kind regards,

119689 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to DocRC, 4, #665 of 1715 🔗

I think calling Corbyn a crank was unfair, though you are entitled to your opinion. There may be elements that I disagree with, but would need to look more into that, but his arguments for leaving the EU and climate sceptism I would pretty much support. I feel you have to admire his bravery in standing up against the lockdown inspite of the harassment. I haven’t looked at his thoughts about 5G which I assume is where the crank insults come from, but then if you had said a year ago where we would be now as a world, I think you would have been labelled a crank.

119703 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nsklent, #666 of 1715 🔗

Can see both sides on that one.

But I will say both deserve respect regardless, Corbyn for standing up to be counted and facing real costs in doing so, and DocRC for doing his own bit to speak up in his own way – it’s a good letter and letters from professionals carry more weight with MPs imo.

119928 ▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Nsklent, 2, #667 of 1715 🔗

I’m currently reading a book called “The Invisible Rainbow, a history of electricity and life” It hasn’t mentioned wi fi as yet but is really interesting, making links between influenza outbreaks and upgrades in electricity (although not for everyone, you’d need to be open to it!). Personally I haven’t looked into the 5G conspiracy enough to be able to comment on it too much but I certainly would not dismiss it.

I wonder whether the doc is dismissing Piers Corbyn as a crank because he wants to put some distance between the views of PC and his own for the purpose of this letter. I think Toby and Brendan O’Neil on Spiked! do that too – demarcate a clear boundary between their own thoughts and those of so-called conspiracy theories. That may be the better tactic. I tend to keep my conspiracy theories to myself as I’ve learnt that most people are definitely not ready for them … timing is important.

119643 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #668 of 1715 🔗

Letter to our MP regarding hydroxychloroquine. Clearly a complete lot of waffle. Hydroxychloroquine is already being used in a lot of countries and it works in the right dose

The Rt Hon Sir John Redwood MP
By email to: john.redwood.mp@parliament.uk 8 September 2020

Dear Sir John,

Thank you for your correspondence of 4 August on behalf of your constituent, Ms Sylvia Priest about the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). I have been asked to reply and I apologise for the delay in doing so.

Before a treatment can be rolled out to the population, robust clinical trials must be completed to prove its effectiveness and safety. Clinical trials are taking place across the world to test the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in a vast number of different settings and patient populations. In the UK, the RECOVERY trial produced clear results that showed the use of hydroxychloroquine in hospital settings did not have a statistically significant impact on patient outcomes.

The Department’s Therapeutics Taskforce is monitoring over 230 worldwide studies of the use of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment or preventative medicine. Many of these studies are trialling hydroxychloroquine in earlier stages of disease progression, or in combination with other drugs. If the results from these trials clearly show efficacy and safety, then the Government will review the case for patient use in the UK.

Many trials across the world, including in the UK, are also testing hydroxychloroquine as a preventative measure. The COPCOV study, led by the University of Oxford, is one of these studies and has been granted Urgent Public Health priority status by the National Institute for Health Research. This means that the trial is supported by the national clinical trial infrastructure to run at pace and effectively recruit patients. This trial is ongoing, and results are not available at this stage. More information can be found at http://www.nihr.ac.uk by searching for ‘COVID studies’.

More generally, from the beginning of the outbreak, the Government’s policies have been guided by the advice of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, which is led by the Chief Scientific Adviser and Chief Medical Officer for England, and the response is kept under constant review.

Public safety is the priority and the Government has a team of public health experts and scientists working round the clock to make sure the NHS, the care sector and the country as a whole are fully prepared.

The Government understands that these are difficult times and that the measures people are being asked to take are very disruptive to normal life. However, it is vital those who are most vulnerable are protected, and people are therefore being asked to act in the interests of everyone in society. I hope this reply is helpful. Kind regards, pp MARIE TURNER

119677 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #669 of 1715 🔗

If I remember correctly the “recovery” trial tested the impact of overdosing already sick people with HCQ. As far as I know it didn’t look at prophylaxis at sensible doses, which is where most research says we should be looking.

119849 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #670 of 1715 🔗

Correct. This has baffled a lot of people as the official guidance on HCQ indicate the dose. John Campbell pointed this out in one of his videos where he agreed ten treatment works.

The accusation is that the patients were overdosed to ensure failure of the study.

119701 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #671 of 1715 🔗

Fauci said many years ago that HCQ was effective for coronaviruses – guess he has been bought by Gates? https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1284720309505937408

120298 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #672 of 1715 🔗

Apparently Gates bragged recently that he spends a lot of time with Fauci. Veiled threat?

119766 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #674 of 1715 🔗

The putting vivid-19 sufferers on ventilators clearly skipped the ‘robust clinical trials’ stage killing many unfortunate souls

119644 Oldschool, replying to Oldschool, 14, #675 of 1715 🔗

I have come to the sad conclusion that this will not end until there is a vaccine, Governments around the world have already committed to buy billions of doses, pharmaceutical companies have already committed 100s of millions of dollars to creating and manufacturing the vaccine and in fact it seems that some companies are already mass producing vaccines that are not out trials yet.
Does anyone really think that Governments around the world, with all the money already spent, reputations already leveraged and economic damage already done are going to admit that the disease has already fizzled out and we can all get back to normal?
They will need to save us with an expensive relatively ineffective vaccine that hopefully will not cause to much damage to the recipients further down the road
I have already resigned myself that I will not see my friends and family in the UK, or that my parents will not see their Grand Children in Romania until at least summer 2021.
I expect further restrictions over the winter to soften everyone up for the vaccine and the resulting vaccination passports that will allow you back into normal society
I am not an anti vaxxer or a conspiracy theorist, I have been vaccinated and so have all my children and I don’t believe in the Illuminati or the lizard men, I simply believe that with all the money already spent there is no way we are going to get out of this without someone getting paid.

119665 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Oldschool, 10, #676 of 1715 🔗

It is not going to end. We are in the process of having our rights removed and they will not return.

119729 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kate, 3, #677 of 1715 🔗

They won’t be returned voluntarily, for sure. But we can insist.

119735 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to JohnB, 1, #678 of 1715 🔗

But who’s going to insist? The pathetic sheep that are just passively accepting this insanity? I keep thinking that people are going to wake up with every new bit of madness but it just doesn’t seem to be happening.

119786 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chicot, 2, #679 of 1715 🔗

Doesn’t need a majority even. Once a sufficient number of people is animated, it’ll happen.

120858 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, #680 of 1715 🔗

Resist. La Résistance Globale. Global Resistance. Britain, America, France, Spain. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Italy…

119910 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kate, 2, #681 of 1715 🔗

Ireland has just had a bill passed – everyone has a right to housing, not a home or to own one. They are preparung ground for taking private property where it is in “the common good”. Not lockdown related other than it is a strange law to pass under the cloak of covid.

119969 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Basics, 1, #682 of 1715 🔗

Not true. A bill has been prepared (with little chance of success) to amend the constitution. It will not succeed.

119676 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Oldschool, 8, #683 of 1715 🔗

It will not end even with a vaccine. There has already been talk that the protection offered by a vaccine will not be permanent so you will need a “top-up” every six months or so. I have little doubt that people will be required to carry around their “vaccination status” on their phones and will be denied access to transport, shops etc… unless it is up to date.

119700 ▶▶▶ Oldschool, replying to Chicot, 3, #684 of 1715 🔗

It could be top up vaccines or could go like the annual flu vaccination where different strains are vaccinated against annually, either way, unfortunately I agree with you that some manner of proof will be required to show vaccination status initially, this may fade as time goes on but with the culture of bedwetting in the corporate world companies will cover their backsides

120317 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Oldschool, #685 of 1715 🔗

There was lots of talk by “scientists” a couple of months back about how the vaccines might only boost antibodies for 6 months, whereupon they’ll need boosting.

120866 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Chicot, #686 of 1715 🔗

Just say no. Never accept any proposal that they make to the best of your ability. You say yes to one and before you know it they’re proposing something else. Never ends.

119684 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Oldschool, 8, #687 of 1715 🔗

Yep…spot on…Too much capital ( political and real one) has been spent, to many reputations put on the line, to many freedoms removed…We will NEVER go back to normal, can’t happen as we would need to remove every single politicians and businessman in the world..Masks everywhere, social distancing, no live sport, forced vaccinations.. To quote 1984.. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

119726 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Thomas_E, 2, #688 of 1715 🔗

need to remove every single politicians and businessman in the world.

Sounds like a plan to me. 🙂

It’s easy to become negative in the face of the continual barrage of fear-inducing propaganda. (Not sure if we need to be negative in CAPS though …). But causing depression, negativity, fear, gloom, etc. is a big part of the bad guys’ intent. So it’s clear we must frustrate them.

We vastly outnumber them. We are more motivated. People are waking up to the fact they’ve been lied to and shat upon.

Personally, I think the battle will be won once all the tv transmitters are smoldering bits of rusty iron. 🙂

119698 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Oldschool, 1, #689 of 1715 🔗

https://twitter.com/alfo13676851/status/1303267793543081984
What do you make of this? Relevant as regards vaccines as there is talk of them being RNA ones, which would be now..

119708 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Oldschool, 8, #690 of 1715 🔗

The vaccine is being sold as the passport to returning to normal, but it won’t be. It will be the gateway to a dystopian nightmare that will surpass anything Orwell or Huxley imagined. I am not living in that world, and will gladly sacrifice myself to avoid it.

119736 ▶▶▶ Oldschool, replying to Richard O, 2, #691 of 1715 🔗

I don’t think so, but I do think that governments around the world have been quietly surprised that people have been scared so easily and not pushed back more.
They may have over estimated this effect, there is some evidence that there is such a thing as psychological vaccination, which results in less attention and more push back the second time something similar happens if the results of the first thing were not very severe. One theory in why the people of London were able to cope with the blitz was that London was very ineffectually bombed during WW1 and the older residents remembered it as not a big thing so could cope better when it was more severe
I would always follow Cicero and ask the age old question “Cui Bono?”

119801 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Oldschool, 1, #692 of 1715 🔗

I posted (elsewhere) about accepting a vaccine being the price for being let off wearing masks before masks became a thing.
It was meant to be a joke.

119649 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #693 of 1715 🔗

Can anyone explain the discrepancy between these figures:

On Sunday, 2,988 new cases were announced, the highest increase since May 22. A further 2,948 cases were recorded on Monday. (DT)

..the number of new coronavirus cases in the UK came close to 3,000 for the second day in a row (Grad)

And the figures on HMG’s website??
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases

119658 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #694 of 1715 🔗

Have been looking at this earlier, Cheezilla. The spreadsheet total positives for UK and the daily increases do not tally. Sky breaking news is quoting the head of testing saying there has been a ‘backlog in analysing them in labs’. Somebody (Heneghan?) must have queried the data. It looks to me as though there has been some manipulation/mistakes (overcounting)/something else. Pretext for Lockdown II, just before universities start, and all the ‘usual suspects’ have been primed ready to go with the authoritarian narrative.

119682 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #695 of 1715 🔗

I must admit I am waiting for a shutdown just before universities start.
What this actually reminds me of is CIA tactics to deliver a massive shock to civil society prior to destabilisation, asset stripping and political takeover.

119721 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kate, 2, #696 of 1715 🔗

Last night here BTL, we were discussing rumours of another full lockdown. They certainly seem to be working on it.

119724 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Kate, 2, #697 of 1715 🔗

Why Universities specifically?

Has that happened in Europe?

Why just the UK?

119743 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to hotrod, 1, #698 of 1715 🔗

The education sector is very important in the UK economy, and we need the 20bn pounds per annum that it generates.
I was in Oxford recently, spoke to one of the fundraisers there (yes the colleges need fundraisers) and was musing on the value of the Oxford “brand.” Ripe for takeover maybe?

119932 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Kate, #700 of 1715 🔗

unfortunately too much of a dependence on Chinese spies and fifth columnists students

119761 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #701 of 1715 🔗

Would the backlog (or administrative problems) be explained by the Pillar 2 tests now needing to be done twice for positives? This might clog up the system a bit? As per the weblink posted by Adele a little while ago.

119668 ▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, -3, #702 of 1715 🔗

No, I can’t and I’m not interested either. “Cases” are meaningless as has been said many many times.

119753 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #703 of 1715 🔗

Jeremy Vine is currently worrying the nation about how so many young people are getting infected that three (3) people died of the Covid yesterday.

119651 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 8, #704 of 1715 🔗

I went to the doctors surgery this morning for a blood test (I didn’t wear a mask), I was in the waiting for the nurse for 20 minutes and I was the only person in the surgery waiting.

From what I observed, the only doctor at work (normally 5) was a locum as I over heard the receptionist say so.

The blood test was for a CAT scan later this week. The last time I was at the hospital (large regional hospital) was in July and it was virtually deserted.

119772 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Smelly Melly, #705 of 1715 🔗

So much for all the lovely people clapping for the covid-19 only NHS

119652 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #706 of 1715 🔗

Also concerning is the dodgy inflation of the recent ONS stats:

The latest Office for National Statistics weekly report on deaths in England and Wales out this morning says that in the week ending 28 August coronavirus accounted for just 1.1% of deaths.
But, on the basis of the figures in the report, PA Media says just over 57,400 deaths involving Covid-19 have now been registered in the UK.
The ONS report says that 52,316 deaths involving Covid-19 had occurred in England and Wales up to 28 August, and had been registered by 5 September.
Figures published last week by the National Records for Scotland showed that 4,228 deaths involving Covid-19 had been registered in Scotland up to 30 August, while 873 deaths had occurred in Northern Ireland up to 28 August (and had been registered up to September 2), according to the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency.
Together, these figures mean that so far 57,417 deaths have been registered in the UK where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, including suspected cases.
This is far higher than the headline UK coronavirus death figure published on the government’s dashboard , which is currently at 41,554. That’s because the headline figure only covers people who died with 28 days of testing positive. Although tests are routine now for people with symptoms, earlier in the crisis thousands of people died from coronavirus without being tested.

Source = Grad live – or does that explain it all?

119667 ▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, -6, #707 of 1715 🔗

I am sick and tired of this crap. If it’s not being reported in the MSM then forget it.

119697 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, -4, #708 of 1715 🔗

All you have succeeded in doing is telling the world about it.

All you have succeeded in doing is giving those who want this shitshow to continue further ammunition.

Thanks idiot.

We know that the figures are inflated. We know that death certificates have been falsified. We know this. When these figures get sicked up by Piers Moron on This Morning then we should start to worry.

Which they probably will now you’ve opened your big mouth.

119720 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, -5, #709 of 1715 🔗

Rather than cowering behind your computers and phones, engage my comments.

Speak! Write! Disagree with me.

In fact, you would be far better getting off your backsides and out into the streets.

Griping on here seems to have little effect.

119779 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, 4, #710 of 1715 🔗

Okay. I have made another post above to explain. I apologise cheezilla. It got to me this morning.

119783 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 6, #711 of 1715 🔗

It was obvious you’re having a very bad day. I hope you soon feel better!

119799 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #712 of 1715 🔗

Thanks for understanding. You were right to highlight this. I was out of order.

119798 ▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #713 of 1715 🔗

Just to again say. I was out of order with my comments below. I apologise.

119879 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to John P, 3, #714 of 1715 🔗

We all have days like that, not a big problem when you are among grown-ups.

120413 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 1, #715 of 1715 🔗

No problem John. I had an idea what was going on. That’s why I didn’t take issue with you. I hope you find this – it’s a few hours later!

119664 leggy, replying to leggy, 7, #716 of 1715 🔗

Can anyone help me out? I think it’s clear that Governments are reluctant to return powers once seized from citizens. I’m trying to think of examples where they have, but I’m struggling. Any suggestions?

119678 ▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, 5, #717 of 1715 🔗

The obvious cases are the more dramatic wartime ones, such as rationing.

119679 ▶▶ Julian, replying to leggy, 5, #718 of 1715 🔗

I guess they did it after the war, and possibly in Northern Ireland more recently. Both of those things were genuine crises that had a more clearly defined endpoint that could not be fudged.

119692 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to leggy, 3, #720 of 1715 🔗

The Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939 was not repealed until 1959 and the last of the Defence Regulations remained in force until 1964.

The Prevention of Terrorism Act 1973 confers emergency powers on the police in Northern Ireland. This was replaced by the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 which covered the entire UK. This was repealed in 2011 when its provisions were found to be against human rights legislation.

119693 ▶▶ leggy, replying to leggy, #721 of 1715 🔗

Thanks all – I had meant to mention “outside wartime” but forgot! Will take a look at the taxes one, thanks.

119705 ▶▶ mjr, replying to leggy, 4, #722 of 1715 🔗

and remember – pub licensing hours were introduced in 1914 at the start of the first world war under DORA so that war production was not affected. Not changed until 1988

119718 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to leggy, #723 of 1715 🔗

WW1, controls on marijuana were introduced as a wartime measure to improve industrial productivity.
Still with us.

120129 ▶▶ Binra, replying to leggy, 1, #724 of 1715 🔗

After a war was declared over – in the past, many of the martial overrides would be released – but often in stages. IE: rationing carried on in UK long after war – but not in Germany where it was decided to rebuild an industrial base.
Wars are not declared anymore but perpetual war operates the ‘normal’.
Perpetual infection operates similarly.
By the fruits we know them.

119673 Andrew, 3, #725 of 1715 🔗

What It’s Like to Believe Everything the Media Tells You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUAG6t5aN8

119685 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 17, #726 of 1715 🔗

Is it just me, or does anyone else smell a rat over the positive test figures for the last two days? If the prevalence of Lab Flu is actually increasing in the community you’d perhaps expect a gradual increase of test numbers – leaving aside all the false positives and increased testing issues – not a sudden 50% increase, persisting for two days (at least). They wouldn’t be trying to threaten the sheeple with bogus, or exaggerated, test results just to keep the fear going – would they? Surely not!

119688 ▶▶ John P, replying to Tenchy, 1, #727 of 1715 🔗

Lab flu?

119694 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to John P, 3, #728 of 1715 🔗

Wuhan Lab Flu. Surely that’s where it started. Okay, it probably originated in bats, but they were no doubt experimenting with zoonotic transmission and somehow or other the material found its way into the outside world.

119717 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tenchy, 1, #729 of 1715 🔗

Sorry, but I do not accept the lab theory.

119731 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to John P, 3, #730 of 1715 🔗

So you put it down to a coincidence? A coincidence that within a stones throw of the alleged wet market source in Wuhan, there’s a major virus research facility?

119794 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tenchy, 1, #731 of 1715 🔗

Coincidence. Yes, why not?

119800 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to John P, #732 of 1715 🔗

Of course it could be, but see the comments from Kate, below. I wonder if, in the fullness of time, we’ll ever get to know for certain?

119773 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to John P, 7, #733 of 1715 🔗

I looked into virology a few years ago.

The Wuhan lab was jointly funded by the CCP and the US, (Fauci sent 4.7 million dollars to Wuhan) and has been growing bat coronaviruses in human epithelial airway tissue for the past twenty years.

This could explain the extraordinary affinity of this bat virus for human lungs, hence its infectiousness. I assumed at the outset of this “pandemic” that it was an accidental escape and was annoyed that the dangers of this research were not discussed publicly.

Now I realise there is an underlying agenda which goes beyond that.

120422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kate, #734 of 1715 🔗

The accidental escape was in the US. That US lab was closed down but Fauci then funded the Wuhan lab ….
The military games in Wuhan have also been suggested as a possibility ….

119752 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #735 of 1715 🔗

https://twitter.com/alfo13676851/status/1303267793543081984 (second post in thread) See what these French reservists say – they agree with you!

119704 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 6, #736 of 1715 🔗

Yes, I do Tenchy (see my earlier posts). Suspect this is also to do with the pending unlicensed vaccine consultation – many have already submitted to it and pretty sure the powers that be are not liking what informed individuals such as folks on here are saying.

119715 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #737 of 1715 🔗

Thanks. Just read them. Hopefully someone like Heneghan will get to the bottom of it. Talk about opaque data! Anyone know of a readily-available graph or data set showing positive tests against total number of tests, and when the testing took place?

119793 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 3, #738 of 1715 🔗

I am working my way through the various spreadsheets (newly uploaded this morning, I think). Start from the main page below, go to each of the four sections, click on ‘more on cases, testing’ etc, then scroll down for UK total sections. To the right of each is an arrow that directs you to the raw data. They keep changing it of course, so in testing, for example, they now have Pillar 4 included, when previously it was split out from Pillars 1 and 2.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

119847 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #739 of 1715 🔗

Thanks. I’ve previously looked at the top level stuff on that site. I’ll now look at the detail.

119713 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tenchy, 2, #740 of 1715 🔗

Well they’ve been sussed fiddling everything else so why not ?

119897 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, #741 of 1715 🔗

Yes! That sudden jump is very suspicious. Any big increase like that overnight is so unlikely to be natural. Something is going on.

120618 ▶▶ gipsy2222, replying to Tenchy, #742 of 1715 🔗

There is something fishy about the way the Telegraph reported the rise in cases today. There was an article at about 5pm today by Adam Holt with a title saying something like charts prove secondwave is on the way (sorry, didn’t screenshot so can’t remember exact title). All the comments underneath were scathing. Looked again just now at 10pm – same article with a different title and no comments allowed. All the comments that were there earlier have been removed. Do the newspapers get paid/forced to publish these propaganda pieces? I find it alarming.

119690 Jenna, replying to Jenna, 12, #743 of 1715 🔗

WHEN WILL THIS END?
I am coming to the end of my tether. France has mandatory masks basically everywhere …. forever???
I am struggling to imagine a way out at all and all the articles discuss how masks are permanent, here forever and they’re never going away – I honestly don’t know if I’m the only one staring into the abyss and thinking of jumping ship. I don’t want to live in the new normal and everywhere is imposing it :/

119785 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Jenna, 4, #744 of 1715 🔗

Sweden and Texas my friend, Sweden and Texas…

119832 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jenna, 5, #745 of 1715 🔗

The masks thing is such a draconian measure. Without it you could have a relatively easier time just following one way systems, sanitising and not doing anything that constitutes fun.

But the masks are a visual reminder of the dark place we are in. Just back from my local shop in a small village and was about 20% mask less 3 weeks ago. Now all masks bar myself. I wasn’t challenged though which is small comfort.

The number of deaths here where I live? Not a single one since early July. Around 20 since we started in an area for which the hoisptal Trust covers around 200,000 people.

Nobody has even been admitted to hospital with it since the end of May.

Yet, try telling people this and I am considered dangerous. Its absolute insanity

120148 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Jenna, #746 of 1715 🔗

Understand that it cannot be as it was before and that those who have ‘come out’ as an overt control agenda haven’t exactly got a way back even if they had second thoughts.

But there is a always a way forward – and making your own decisions as a result of your own core values – which means digging deeper than ‘normal’ to find who you are and being from there as your way of responding to whatever conditions your meet.

Reining in a fearful imagination is robbing ‘Peter’ to pay ‘Paul’ – that is what you withdraw from fear you invest in something – anything in the moment at hand that resonates with you that aligns you in life and the living. I am saying nothing here to do with combating ‘Them’ – but of withdrawing the backdoor through which fear-agenda operates.
Accept that it is a compression in which to learn to hold to what is truly worthy and release what ultimately doesn’t have to matter.
At least – that’s my offering to your strengths – whether you know you have them or not.

120275 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to Jenna, #747 of 1715 🔗

I agree. I should have been getting back to swimming club this evening but reading the rules that I can’t accept has had me throw in the towel before I’ve even tried.

119696 Caramel, 4, #748 of 1715 🔗

Help me out?
This is the modelling used used for justification of the lockdown for Victoria. Now the models estimate that Victoria will have amongst the highest rates of infections in the world and full hospital wards without lockdowns which we know is rubbish. But I don’t understand programming so could somebody explain it? Wish that Sue Denim could review it.

https://github.com/JTHooker/COVIDModel

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/probability-6-week-lockdown-victoria-commencing-9-july-2020-achieving-elimination

119710 karenovirus, 3, #749 of 1715 🔗

BBC R2 News, midday.
In response to the (pitiful) dearth of Covid testing kit the expert said

“We are concentrating testing in the areas with most infections.”

By quantity or proportion he did not say but that is exactly what I would do if I wanted to create a self-perpetuating cycle of new ‘cases’.

119714 mjr, replying to mjr, 5, #750 of 1715 🔗

Has anyone noticed that BBC current affairs such an Breakfast show and longer news broadcasts are showing more feel good videos. Surfing dogs. baby leopards…. Or is it just me noticing something different to covid scare propaganda.

just noticing politics live – small outbreaks of scepticism … but the sheep dont watch this programme!!!

119730 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 1, #751 of 1715 🔗

They still do it on the radio. Case in point was last weeks report that a couple in London needing to be tested were referred to the Brecon Beacons, chortle chortle, those computers eh!
Turned out not to be so funny after all (well not from the governments point of view).

119751 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mjr, 2, #752 of 1715 🔗

It’s a toxic combination – scare stories and fluff to make people think this is now normal

Evil

119781 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to mjr, #753 of 1715 🔗

You can look at things like Google story count to scientifically assess whether there has been a change.

119728 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #754 of 1715 🔗

Old Wankock never gives up, does he? This from The Telegraph live feed (my emphasis):

Matt Hancock: long-term effects of coronavirus not “very strongly correlated” with severity of infection.

Mr Hancock said that the long-term effects of coronavirus were not “very strongly correlated” with the severity of the infection.

He added: “This is not just about people who were hospitalised, in fact, and this is really relevant for now because the latest rise in the last few days has been largely among young people.

“But it doesn’t matter how serious your infection was first time initially, the impact of long Covid can be really debilitating for a long period of time , no matter if your initial illness wasn’t all that severe.”

When asked if there would be a campaign to educate people about the long-term effects of the virus, Mr Hancock said there were not “easy and clinically validated” treatments.

He added: “There is a challenge which is supporting people when actually there isn’t a readily available treatment.”

A long period of time? How does he know that? The lab flu has only been with us for six months, in terms of significant numbers of cases.

119756 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 3, #755 of 1715 🔗

‘Long covid’ will miraculously disappear as soon as a vaccine appears!

119780 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Carrie, 5, #756 of 1715 🔗

They need this narrative. They have over-invested in it, along with every other government around the world. The lockdown and The Madness need to keep being fuelled.

119774 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 9, #757 of 1715 🔗

They’re pulling out all the stops to keep the panicdemic going, aren’t they?

119819 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 5, #758 of 1715 🔗

To me, it always seems very odd to highlight long term effects of a condition that has not existed long term. How can it be proven? Am I missing something obvious? Time travel perhaps?

119870 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Tenchy, 4, #759 of 1715 🔗

Some cretin on the radio yesterday (LBC to the guy on after Eddie Mair I think) was saying “long COVID” could harm young people FOR LIFE!!!!

AND IT WASN’T QUESTIONED!!!

Insane.

120153 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Tenchy, #760 of 1715 🔗

A novel turns into a trilogy… of trilogies – and wait – the prequel!

But stringing you along is the buying of time such that the restructuring necessary will be in place for when the patient comes round to find a boot in their face.

119732 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 2, #761 of 1715 🔗

FAO Cheezilla and Tyneside Tigress.

Regarding your question on the cases stats.

Yes I spotted that too.

Cases by specimen were over 2000 last week but this didn’t tally with the daily count.

Is that what you noted as Carl possibly querying?

119838 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to hotrod, #762 of 1715 🔗

Yes, Hotrod, positives by specimen date and announcement date is well out of synch. The number of processed tests seems to have fallen dramatically in the last week, and hasn’t been updated since 2 September. The accumulated positive of 350,100 doesn’t tally with the daily change reported either. Again, there is something going on with the dataset. In early July, if you recall, they announced there had been 30k double counting of positives and the stats were rebased accordingly. It is the sort of thing Carl Heneghan and his team will be onto I assume? The NHS test and trace head has said there is a problem in analysing the lab results. Suggest active data manipulation, or another cockup!

119733 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 8, #763 of 1715 🔗

My hope is that economic meltdown focuses minds and prompts a re-assessment of risks v. rewards. Continued bailouts and furlough schemes (and nutty talk of Modern Monetary Theory) only allow further indulgence of coronaphobia. We need mass unemployment to save the economy. Counter-intuitive yes, but in the absence of a vaccine we cannot go on like this and the acquiescent working age populace need to experience some real pain not just fear of the abstract. THEN maybe we will get the change of attitude we need.

119749 ▶▶ Julian, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #764 of 1715 🔗

I am sure that will help

119759 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #765 of 1715 🔗

I’ve gone back to work in London after nearly 6 months off.Looking at the boarded up shops and general lack of people on the streets my guess is you won’t have to wait too long.

119776 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #766 of 1715 🔗

I’m going in next week. Dreading it. Easier to visit Chernobyl than my office. It’s the sad site of mask-wearers shuffling around like drones that really upsets me. Pray for a vaccine – or a change of attitude. But neither will be immediate.

119813 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #767 of 1715 🔗

It’s my hope that we won’t need such destructive forces to focus minds. The fallout will be capitalised on by all manner of extreme forces that can only lead to bad places. You think we have sheep now? When economic collapse is on the cards, such people, already scared to death by a flu will cry for protection from anyone offering it.

How about Amazon run for parliament and promise everyone jobs in their Covid safe warehouses. Back at work, covid safe, healthy balance sheet, free prime membership. What’s not to like?

119734 John P, replying to John P, 17, #768 of 1715 🔗

I’ve pretty much had enough already today.

I live alone. I’ve already had an idiot on here doxx me which is why I have been quiet for about two months.

I have suffered from depression throughout my life. My life is fairly shit at the best of times. I had an innocent dream of being married and having a family. But I can’t get it together with women.

Rather than assuming bad faith in others – like me – here maybe sometimes have a little consideration. Understand that life for others is not always easy.

“Unfortunately” perhaps, “self-harm” isn’t my thing. Otherwise I’d have left this planet long ago.

119740 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to John P, 1, #769 of 1715 🔗

What is ‘doxxing’?

I am sorry to hear you are not having a good time of it.

The response to the virus must be making things horrendous for those with mental health issues. It is so unfair.

Unfortunately, you are part of the ‘unintended consequences’ side of the balance sheet that the government and most of the public simply refuse to assess when they implement all the stupid rules and measures to stop this 0.03% death rate virus.

Stay with it, things may improve via a vaccine or a change of attitudes before the end of 2021.

119758 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #770 of 1715 🔗

public posting of personal details online

used to attack truth seekers / whistleblowers amongst other things

119771 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to anon, #771 of 1715 🔗

It may not have been intentional, just clumsy. I’m not going to say who it was.

119768 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #772 of 1715 🔗

Thank you. I generally prefer not to mention any “issues” I may have. I prefer not to consider myself any sort of victim, but I get frustrated at times.

I think I just felt overwhelmed.

119747 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 8, #773 of 1715 🔗

Sorry to hear that

It’s not unfortunate that self harm is not your thing

You’re clearly sane which is more than can be said for many at present

119775 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 2, #774 of 1715 🔗

Thanks Julian. Much appreciated.

119797 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to John P, 6, #775 of 1715 🔗

Maybe you need some time off this site, John. I come here to get the lockdown news, but we here are focusing on just this one subject. If you can avoid the BBC news and just go out, you will find a lot of normal life carrying on and that will do you good.

119762 ▶▶ anon, replying to John P, 7, #776 of 1715 🔗

chin up John. I’m in the same boat as you

we’lll get through it

119764 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 7, #777 of 1715 🔗

Just hang onto the fact that your despair isn’t you . It’s no good me saying things aren’t that bad – but rest assured that even those of us with more fortunate circumstances are struggling with this never-ending corruption of society.

Keep going.

119788 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to RickH, 3, #778 of 1715 🔗

Thanks Rick. I generally say nothing, but it really got to me this morning.

119765 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to John P, 5, #779 of 1715 🔗

However bleak things seems remember NOTHING lasts forever so even this nonsense has to come to an end. Plus NEVER let the bas***** grind you down.

119791 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to KBuchanan, 2, #780 of 1715 🔗

“This too shall pass.”

Thank you. I like to think I am strong enough to cope with this, but I have my moments.

119821 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 1, #781 of 1715 🔗

Chin up John, we are all here for each other, don’t forget that!

119850 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to John P, 2, #782 of 1715 🔗

Oh John. I’m sorry that somebody on here added to your troubles. All of us on here understand that life is not easy which is one reason why we’re on here. And we see you and we empathise.

119984 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to John P, 4, #783 of 1715 🔗

John you are in my thoughts & prayers. I’m ex-military, got PTSD & depression plus physical injuries/disability from fighting for this country. I’ve lost six of my mates, four to enemy action, two to PTSD. Life can be pretty rubbish at times. I have a young family, a supportive other half and some reasonably good support from the Navy & the NHS (yes honestly!).
What you are going through is real, it will pass & you can see it through, because if I can you can! One day it will be me asking for your help.
Keep your chin up my friend.
Arnie.

119737 Julian, replying to Julian, 6, #784 of 1715 🔗

Statutory instrument published: The Prosecution of Offences (Custody Time Limits) (Coronavirus) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 – extending time people can be kept in custody before trial to 8 months.

In force from 28 September – no parliamentary debate.

https:// legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/953/ pdfs/uksi_20200953_en.pdf

119744 ▶▶ anon, replying to Julian, 5, #785 of 1715 🔗

chilling

goodness me

119745 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Julian, 6, #786 of 1715 🔗

We need two sections in the Comments area. 1. ‘Outrages’ to highlight the injustices and madness. 2. ‘Victories’ to highlight progress made against the lunacy. So you can read 1 but before getting really upset you can move onto 2. And 2. can be small-scale, like I didn’t wear a mask, got challenged and ended up converting the challenger to the cause. &c &c.

119817 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to jhfreedom, #787 of 1715 🔗

I too have found coping mechanisms to deal with all this!

119859 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jhfreedom, #788 of 1715 🔗

That’s a job for the forum.

119763 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 3, #789 of 1715 🔗

What? Someone please let Francis Hoar and Simon Dolan know asap.. Also Peter Hitchens and Toby of course..

What was the previous time limit, by the way?

119818 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 2, #790 of 1715 🔗

I got it from Hitchens twitter feed

Amendment of the 1987 Regulations
2. Regulation 5 (custody time limits in the Crown Court) of the 1987 Regulations is amended as
follows—
(a) in paragraph (3), for “112 days” substitute “168 days”;
(b) in paragraph (6B), for “182 days” substitute “238 days”.

119820 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Carrie, 1, #791 of 1715 🔗

What Covid related crime would have an 8 month remand? Unless it’s designed for Johnson, Hancock, et al!

120104 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Julian, 1, #792 of 1715 🔗

Oh My God!

119742 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #793 of 1715 🔗

Hi Concrete. Are you aware of the kbf sussex group which meets fortnightly in Lewes (Zu cafe) ? Very active and civilised.

119822 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #794 of 1715 🔗

A week today (15th). It was 6pm for 6:30pm, but there was talk of shifting to 7pm for 7:30pm. I must have been dozing, as can’t remember the decision. 🙁

Go to the kbf website ( https://www.keepbritainfree.com/ ), navigate to community | forum | kbf local | kbf south | kbf sussex.

Website is a bit clunky but works. We have anti mask-flyers already – whereabouts are you ? Once in kbf sussex, Paul, our admin, can set you up for the private messaging group.

119825 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 2, #795 of 1715 🔗

(Evil people keep taking down the posters I put up in Lewes.).

119770 Roadrash, replying to Roadrash, 20, #796 of 1715 🔗

Reading comments on the BBCs website just fills me with despair. Words to the effect of “ we need more lockdown, more restrictive measures!” Etc. Fixation on meaningless ‘case’ statistics. No examination of facts. We just seem to be losing the battle. Now it seems we need to blame young people and children for the rise in ‘cases’. I’m my local authority yesterday on the 3rd day back for many pupils, 8 schools sent classes or entire year groups home to isolate because of a single ‘case’ in school. Whether these are actual positive Covid tests or whether due to a pupil having a cold, who knows? What is clear is that as soon as the groups are back in and another pupil coughs they will be all out again. Insanity! Meanwhile the mayor comes out with the usual “unfortunately this will happen under the new normal” crap.

Caerphilly today new travel restrictions. They can’t leave town without a reasonable excuse. I would have thought that complete infringement of a person’s liberties is a reasonable excuse but apparently not. What next, martial bloody law like Victoria. Meanwhile the sane, measured fact gatherers on sites like this are treated like flat earthers.

i can’t see a way out. I have tried the calm factual approach when discussing this nonsense – doesn’t work. For most it seems to be like a religion. The shouty/ranty approach just labels you as a loon. The British public will compliantly hold out their arms for a vaccine and beg for a health passport so they can enjoy the beach in Majorca. Being policed on said beach by a helicopter to demand they keep their distance will just add to their holiday ‘fun’. Meanwhile we will foster a generation of terrified kids, see a massive rise in mental health issues in the young and send them on their merry way to look for jobs that will no longer exist.

119789 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Roadrash, 12, #797 of 1715 🔗

If there was another Nazi Germany, there would be no Churchill and no Battle of Britain. We would have come to terms already. We have given up freedoms because we don’t value them. Maybe we deserve this? Sad.

119814 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Roadrash, 6, #798 of 1715 🔗

This is what I feared the return to schools would trigger. Children mixing with each other for the first time in 6 months and immediately coming down with respiratory viruses. Then tested “positive” en masse all over the country and hey presto, suddenly Covid-19 infections are on the rise in the young, so we must go into lockdown again.

I agree with you that the vast majority are irredeemably brainwashed into the Covid Cult. This will take as long as Communism to defeat (i.e. decades).

119815 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Roadrash, 4, #799 of 1715 🔗

I don’t think BBC website comments are representative, though obviously many people still do think like that

Many others are just apathetic and hoping it will all blow over soon – those are the people we need to work on

Ask them how long we should continue like this

119835 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Roadrash, 10, #800 of 1715 🔗

I’m with you. I’m so angry. I know it sounds crazy but wancock proselytising about the worrying spike in coronavirus ( not even necessarily Co Vid 19) on ‘ young people relaxing’ and how they’re threatening the lives of their grannies is seriously pushing me over the edge. That and my 19 year old student daughter today getting a text from her GP reminding her that just because she’s young doesn’t mean she can relax social distancing. This from the GP who couldn’t even be bothered to answer the phone when she desperately needed a replacement steroid inhaler ( when she actually had Co Vid and is an asthma sufferer) – so I effectively had to beg a GP friend to write her a script. When is a decent politician going to emerge to promote rationality again?

119777 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #801 of 1715 🔗

Can anyone make sense of what, on the face of it, appears to be extreme bullshit and monumental exaggeration:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54031587

Tim Spector, professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London and leader of the Covid Symptom Study app, said around 300,000 people in the UK have reported symptoms lasting for more than a month – so called “long Covid”.

He added that data from the app showed around 60,000 people have been ill for more than three months.

However, many of these people may not have been tested for Covid.

But – to date there have only been 350100 “cases” (positive tests)

119787 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tenchy, 1, #802 of 1715 🔗

Double counting at the very least. Ask person A if they have symptoms on day 1, register a positive. Ask on day 2, register another positive.

119809 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #803 of 1715 🔗

Plus hayfever, hypochondria and the power of suggestion.

119804 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tenchy, 5, #804 of 1715 🔗

Because it’s all made up rubbish and you shouldn’t believe a single word BBC “journalists” say as a general rule. The latest push is this “long lasting effect” tosh.

119812 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Tenchy, 5, #805 of 1715 🔗

plus, there has been so much change in what the symptoms are of covid (basically anything) then it is quite possible that someone has had a continual problem which has a symptom that matches covid and so assumes that they have long covid.
“i have had a cough for a month.. it must be long covid” “maybe you should see a doctor – it might be lung cancer” “oh i have an appointment for that in November but they can do me a covid test this afternoon”

119836 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #806 of 1715 🔗

Completely fabricated no doubt.

119895 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to leggy, 1, #807 of 1715 🔗

Possibly. It’ll be based on the app they have distributed which allows people to log symptoms. They say they have 4m users, not sure if they all report daily. Arguably the sample is not representative – likely to be people worried about their health.

They take the reports from the app and combine with testing results to estimate number of cases

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data

They are currently estimating 30,000 symptomatic cases UK-wide, about 1 person in 2,250

119957 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Julian, 2, #808 of 1715 🔗

There’s some interesting stuff coming out of the Zoe thing. One survey, which had about 1.8m respondents, probably very self selecting, worried well. It looked at eating habits, exercise & weight gain/loss over lockdown. What a surprise, fat people got fatter by about 2.5kg & thin people got thinner by about 2.5kg. 5kg is a big delta.
Has Boris already forgotten his fine talk if getting people fitter?

120452 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to NickR, #809 of 1715 🔗

Doubt the PM remembers much.

120165 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Tenchy, 2, #810 of 1715 🔗

I don’t give the BBC and others my attention – let alone try to make sense of their output.

But consider – have you ever had any kind of cold or flu that didn’t just disappear but had persistent symptoms of under par in one way or another?

But so what?

Be clear the ‘authorities’ that seek to manipulate you, are lining up a bio-security (sic) state as part of a billionaire’s dream.

119795 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #811 of 1715 🔗

Well done.

Waitrose is doing extremely well in getting rid of customers by using door guards (on minimum wage) that enforce mask wearing on behalf of the Government. I experienced that one time to many and last week waved goodbye forever after 16 years ( monthly average £800)

119968 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, 2, #812 of 1715 🔗

Yes, Waitrose is certainly the worst in all this.

Heard today that one of the checkout staff at the local branch now has goggles under her visor …

119823 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #813 of 1715 🔗

All this pathetic hand-wringing and despair over test results and naughty young people having fun, these ‘experts and politicians’ need to get a grip and get real. The one set of figures that seems indisputable in all this are the ONS weekly registered death figures, today they reported 101 deaths involving Covid, of these 70 were in people aged over 75.
So Covid related deaths were 1.12% of total weekly deaths and 69% of those Covid deaths were people aged over 75.
I would have thought that anyone with a rational view on things would look at those figures and decide to focus on the elderly and vulnerable and that otherwise things look OK.

119830 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #814 of 1715 🔗

unfortunately they still refer to cases and infections on BBC and other MSM.. So all the sheeple still buy in to the “3000 people became ill with covid” narrative
Until someone in the MSM has the balls to say “This is 3000 positive tests, and not illnesses” enough times for the sheeple to understand, nothing will change

119824 mjr, 3, #815 of 1715 🔗

Ha! Dawn Butler on politics today. “we have a right to protest”. unfortunately she is only taking about XR blockade . She also reminded us that we cannot sing because of covid. I could fill a page with the other incoherent garbage she spouted

119826 ScooBieDee, replying to ScooBieDee, 8, #816 of 1715 🔗

Is it me or have I detected here over the last couple days, a very real darkening of the mood in our comments BTL? What with the recent government and public health pronouncements, castigating of young people, compliance through guilt, acquiescence of the majority, inevitably of an ‘almost mandatory’ vaccine – there seems to be a real sense of gloom descending for the coming winter!

Is it just me??

119828 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to ScooBieDee, 4, #817 of 1715 🔗

No, I’ve noticed it as well. It’s terribly sad. I absolutely loathe winter as it is – my least favourite season of the year – and I’m really dreading this one, not least because of the possibility of a second lockdown that I once thought was impossible but is now looking increasingly likely in this clown world.

119843 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #818 of 1715 🔗

Rather this than the blissful ignorance of the majority. We will be far better prepared psychologically for the onslaught when it arrives.

119856 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to ScooBieDee, #819 of 1715 🔗

The talk of lockdown Mark 2 is the cloud you see. How they can even get that into the ongoing chit chat with such ease is disturbing.

119875 ▶▶ TJN, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #820 of 1715 🔗

I actually think things ARE turning. So I’m not gloomy. I’ve seen bits emerging from government papers which suggest a change.

It’s as if there are two sides to the government now – the ongoing Project Fear that we’ve all lived with. They appear to want to live up to the Reasonable Worse Case Scenario, as leaked to Deborah Cohen, make it self fulfilling. Heading for increased measures later this month, and possibly lockdown later in October or November.

But less noticed, in the background, I’ve seen signs of common sense breaking out. It’s as if there are elements in government which recognise that we can’t go on like this.

Hancock is on the Project Fear side. But he’s pretty well irrelevant – the archetypal useful idiot.

119881 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TJN, 1, #821 of 1715 🔗

Do tell us where you’ve seen common sense.

Hancock and Johnson the worst of them, plus the “scientists” who want power and attention.

119953 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Julian, #822 of 1715 🔗

Sorry for quick reply, but I have to dash.

First, this doc.:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sars-cov-2-rna-testing-assurance-of-positive-results-during-periods-of-low-prevalence

Second, copied from a post I made here last Friday:

Mrs TJN and I has just received guidance on how our daughter’s primary school will be approaching the potential problem (small, I know) of virus spread in school. It quotes a letter from Yvonne Doyle, (the Medical Director and Director of Health Protection, Public Health England) and Susan Hopkins, (the Interim Chief Medical Adviser of NHS Test and Trace).

A bit of a haul I know, but here’s the text (my emphasis):

The Department for Education has worked closely with Public Health England (PHE) and NHS Test and Trace to ensure that we are doing all we can to minimise the potential risks of spread. A key part of this is the appropriate use of testing to help identify people who are positive and subsequently their contacts. We have made testing available throughout the country and anyone with symptoms can book a test online or over the telephone through 119 to get the certainty they need to protect themselves and those around them.

Crucial to our overall support for schools and colleges is ensuring that everyone with coronavirus symptoms has access to a test as soon as they develop those symptoms. It is vital that we learn from the recent Scottish experience, where the return of schools saw a huge increase in demand for tests from people without coronavirus symptoms. We want to avoid a similar surge in test demand as England’s schools and colleges return to ensure that we continue to prioritise our testing capacity for those with symptoms and to avoid children, students and their families self-isolating unnecessarily .

To ensure we identify those with coronavirus while avoiding a huge increase in demand for tests from people without coronavirus symptoms, we ask that you recommend to your pupils, students and staff who feel unwell, that they get tested if:

they develop one or more of the main coronavirus symptoms:

a high temperature
a new, continuous cough
the loss or change of their sense of taste or smell, or

they are recommended to get tested by a healthcare provider (e.g. GP or nurse)

If a pupil, student or staff member develops one or more of the main coronavirus symptoms described above, only they should be tested . There is no need for their households to have a test, unless they are also symptomatic. Unless a pupil, student or staff member has one of the three main coronavirus symptoms, they should only be tested if instructed otherwise by the local authority, health protection team or their GP . As schools and colleges across England return, pupils and students may feel unwell for example with a sore throat, stomach upset or a headache. These pupils and students don’t need to book a test but may need to stay off school or college and seek medical advice through their GP or pharmacist as usual.

Maybe I’m being overly optimistic, but what I take from this is that they are aware that mass random testing will throw up lots of ‘cases’, which aren’t actually cases at all, leading to unnecessary measures to combat a ‘surge’ in the virus – in this case closing schools.

It seems to go against the ethos of what Hancock was saying yesterday (Radio 4, Today) about ramping up testing, blah blah blah.  (But I’m not sure that Hancock is in control or even aware of what’s going on is his own department.)

But has someone with government, or at least the Civil Service, started to see sense at last? Have they realised the damage that is being done, and that they can’t carry on as they have been doing?

Schools seem now to be the central battleground.

120450 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TJN, 1, #823 of 1715 🔗

Thanks. Conflicting messages. But better than nothing.

120877 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TJN, #824 of 1715 🔗

Is the temperature 38.6 or 37.8 for a fever now?
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffhp&q=temperature+38.6&ia=web

120957 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to richard riewer, #825 of 1715 🔗

Umm, don’t know. 37.8 really doesn’t sound that high, especially as I thought children can run a bit hot anyway.

119929 ▶▶ RickH, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #826 of 1715 🔗

No – it’s not just you.

I was fairly (well sort of) optimistic on Sunday after observing wide ignoring of face masks etc.

But the intent behind the ramping up of the Scary Fairy is too egregious to miss.

120176 ▶▶ Binra, replying to ScooBieDee, #827 of 1715 🔗

Conditioned reaction is the name of the game of manipulating it. If you want to live – find where you are truly alive instead of rushing to see what the next threat is, whether the bad guys have gone away or what happens next.
You are looking at the way ‘contagion’ operates the mind.
Where is your core immunity? Not in fearful thinking, indecision and ungrounded ongoing anxieties.
i didn’t say we are not all going to release the world one day in one way or another – but that we live Now – and can be induced to throw this away for carrots or even the carrot of being hit less with a stick.

119827 RickH, 3, #828 of 1715 🔗

I note that Handycock is to answer questions in the Commons about ‘Test and Trace’.

It will be fascinating to see if any MPs raise the fundamental issues around PCR testing and the notion of ‘cases’.

My guess is a resounding sound of ‘Baaaaaaa!’

119829 IMoz, 5, #829 of 1715 🔗

According to the ONS, deaths for week 35 (ending 28 Aug) of 2020:-

Total: 9032 (down from 9631 prev. week, up from 5Y average of 8241, on par with the 5Y max of 9031)

‘flu/pneumonia: 1040 (down from 1151 prev. week)
COVID-19: 101 (down from 138 prev. week)

‘flu/pneumonia:COVID-19 ratio is just over 10.3:1 (8.34:1 prev. week), COVID-19 mentions as a proportion of all-cause deaths: 1.12%, ‘flu/pneumonia: 11.51%

‘flu/pneumonia to COVID-19 ratio still is going up a month after the increase in mask wearing, while no causation can be claimed, what can be claimed is that this indicates that wearing face “coverings” does not protect against aerosolised infection.

The amount of money, effort, and extraordinary measures spent on a disease that currently has 10 times lower mortality is astonishing to the point of being insanely (literally!) irrational—the nosophobes have taken over the clinic and are running a riot!

Ref: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending28august2020

119831 Tim Bidie, 2, #830 of 1715 🔗

The ‘Welcome to the masquerade’ video above is so good I cannot send it to any maskers because it is, quite simply, too destructive….; pathetic, I realise…..

Also the quotation yesterday from ‘The Man Without Qualities’, previously brilliantly used by Mr Young (so many thanks, again, for this site) about Blair, so good that, in my view, it bears repetition:

And indeed the most coldly calculating people do not have half the success in life that comes to those rightly blended personalities who are capable of feeling a really deep attachment to such persons and conditions as will advance their own interests.’

And there is another quote from the same source which sums up what is going on in the world at the moment, and particularly, with a few honourable exceptions, the fourth estate:

“People were always chasing after some leader or another, and stumbling from one superstition to the next, cheering His Majesty one day and giving the most disgusting incendiary speeches in Parliament the next, and none of it ever amounted to anything in the end! If this could be miniaturized by a factor of a million and reduced, as it were, to the dimensions of a single head, the result would be precisely the image of the unaccountable, forgetful, ignorant conduct and the demented hopping around that has always been the image of a lunatic’

Der Mann ohne Eigenschaften’ Robert Musil 1943

119833 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 1, #831 of 1715 🔗

More nonesense from the Evening Standard:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/uk-coronavirus-live-true-covid-19-death-toll-hits-57-400-as-brits-urged-to-take-pandemic-seriously-or-face-bumpy-road/ar-BB18OHMX?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

Headline reads: “ UK coronavirus LIVE: True Covid-19 death toll hits 57,400 as Brits urged to take pandemic seriously ‘or face bumpy road’ “

At least it recognises that deaths are still low:

“More than 57,400 deaths involving coronavirus have now been registered in the UK, new figures from the Office for National Statistics show.

However, data released today also found that weekly deaths involving Covid-19 in England and Wales have dropped to the lowest number since mid-March.

Meanwhile, deputy chief medical officer Professor Jonathan Van-Tam has said coronavirus must be taken very seriously again or the UK will face “a bumpy ride over the next few months”.”

119918 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ozzie, 1, #832 of 1715 🔗

Of course, the 57,400 figure attributed to Covid is utter unadulterated bollocks.

119939 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Ozzie, 1, #833 of 1715 🔗

A bumpy road? I am reading that as the threat of further assaults on any freedoms we have left. This government and their advisers has to go.. by any means!

120340 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ozzie, #834 of 1715 🔗

Lots of people die: panic.
Very few people die: panic.

119834 John P, replying to John P, 19, #835 of 1715 🔗

I just wanted to extend a big thank you to all who kindly responded to my personal comment below with words of encouragement.

It does make a difference and my dark mood began to lift almost immediately.

119837 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to John P, 4, #836 of 1715 🔗

Keep your chin up – I’ve been feeling rather dark today as well, but it’s times like these where we must draw upon inner strength because everything outside of us is failing.

119887 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Poppy, 1, #837 of 1715 🔗

Me too. One of the most depressing days in a long time.

120879 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Poppy, #838 of 1715 🔗

It might have been something in the air. I felt very depressed today as well and lacking energy. A Global Depression.

119840 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 1, #839 of 1715 🔗

Glad to hear it

I’m sure lots of us are finding this hard – I know me and my family are

120882 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #840 of 1715 🔗

Richie Allen is too. It’s infectious.

119857 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to John P, 1, #841 of 1715 🔗

I’m glad to hear that 😊

119841 Caramel, replying to Caramel, 2, #842 of 1715 🔗

I’m a grown woman who hasn’t seen any Peppa Pig episodes and I want to go there if it means normalcy.

119860 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Caramel, 1, #843 of 1715 🔗

Take me to “Mr Crabtree goes fishing ” circa 1950.

120881 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Fingerache Philip., #844 of 1715 🔗

Rocky & Bullwinkle.

119846 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #846 of 1715 🔗

Slightly off topic but following a general theme of zero risk:

These are the 24 new speed camera sites across Scotland Extra enforcement part of new plans to cut Scottish road deaths to zero by 2050
https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/these-are-24-new-speed-camera-sites-across-scotland-2964812

119855 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #847 of 1715 🔗

Live at all costs. ALL COSTS.

119865 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #849 of 1715 🔗

More about revenue enhancement than safety, in truth.

That’s the old normal though. My impression since all the security theatre ramped up after 9/11 is that these things are politically pushed also by the security establishment because they all feed monitoring info into the “anti-terror” structures.

And remember, the current theme is to create a “right wing” terror threat so that the majority ethnicity can be plausibly targeted along with muslims.

119866 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Nobody2020, #850 of 1715 🔗

Presumably part of their plan to eliminate death completely…

119876 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Nobody2020, #851 of 1715 🔗

even if some of these cameras are gatso type , others are constant speed or mobile units which means that they can also be used as ANPR cameras. Just saying……….

This JP video was posted earlier but it is so relevant to your post

119851 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #852 of 1715 🔗

There seems ‘no end to the untruths being told’ to Australians: Alan Jones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P1zEAP4prg

Sky News Australia

Sky News host Alan Jones says there “seems no end to the untruths that are told” as Australians continue to suffer, lose their jobs or remain just hanging on via the JobKeeper lifeline.

119853 Fingerache Philip., #853 of 1715 🔗

Take me to “Mr Crabtree goes fishing ” circa 1950.

119861 Eldred Godson, 3, #854 of 1715 🔗

The faerie kingdom seems to have been taken over by an effing great Lizard and it’s hordes of Cov-fascist acolytes… Shame St George isn’t the patron saint of France….

119867 p02099003, 1, #855 of 1715 🔗

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/ Sorry but I cannot be bothered to go through the individual reports but the theme is obvious

119868 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 28, #856 of 1715 🔗

Feeling quite despondent today. I really thought that there was absolutely no way that another lockdown, local or national, would ever be so cruelly inflicted on the people of this country but all this hand-wringing over increased ‘cases’ suggests that we might soon be locked up again. Unbelievable. We patently cannot afford another house arrest (not that we could afford the first one) either economically, socially, or culturally. I thought that the government would keep up the pretence of control with various local mockdowns and unenforceable ‘social’ restrictions but nothing more serious than that.

Someone said on here yesterday that if there were another full lockdown then he/she would suspect malicious intent. I am inclined to agree. It has gone beyond incompetence now. It was incompetence which started off the chain reaction and made the government overreact and make errors, but rather than admitting their mistakes and rectifying them, we must suffer instead. I find it very hard to believe that our elected representatives are still unaware of the mass suffering lockdowns cause which outweighs their (total lack of) benefit, and that they genuinely believe that there is still a deadly virus out there stalking the land. They KNOW that they are needlessly causing suffering to justify their own pathetic failure to manage this problem, which they have now inflated into a crisis of their own making. That, to me, is deeply malicious. I will never, ever vote for these people again – not after the despicable Hancock took aim at my generation and blamed us for his failure to protect the vulnerable and threatened to forbid us from living a normal life. I don’t make government policy. I’m not responsible for the spread of an infectious disease beyond quarantining myself when I am ostensibly SICK, not when I am healthy with no symptoms. This divide-and-rule strategy of pitting generations against one another is totally revolting and the opposite of what we need to get through this horrendous time.

But Biker is right – complaining on here solves nothing. It’s satisfying to rant to each other and this site is a beacon of sanity, and of course Toby’s compilation of evidence is a serious strengthening of our case, but remember we are still a minority and the people of the UK don’t come here for news, they go to the MSM which is still peddling the fear narrative. Biker’s comment speaks to why I, and probably so many others on here, feel so low. We’re powerless. There is the odd protest but it’s not greatly attended and certainly not covered by the MSM (or covered in an unbiased way), and many of us who don’t live in London cannot attend. It’s hard to organise one’s own protest, especially if there are so few of us.

It just feels as if there’s no end to this insanity and as long as people can still access food and Netflix then they’re not going to care enough to do anything about it. ‘Bread and circuses’ as my bf says – just keep people happy and they won’t give a shit. It sounds terrible and I really wish there were another way out of this lunacy but I get the impression that millions more will have to suffer before the public revolt en masse.

119890 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Poppy, 17, #857 of 1715 🔗

Actually I think there is a lot of small-scale stuff you can do. Use the mask exemptions to not wear a mask, that gives great encouragement to people wondering whether to do the same. Tell friends and family and acquaintances you’re a sceptic and point them to this website. Generally make it clear that you are not in favour and others may well follow. Part of the problem is that there is no mass small-scale signalling. Many wear a mask because they ‘don’t have the energy’ to make a point. But this, along with advocating sceptical views at every opportunity could change the narrative at the ground level if enough people do it. If you go out, ask the pub or restaurant how ‘fussy’ they are about it or if it’s quite relaxed. They will understand what you mean. Vote with your wallet. Write to your MP and ignore the stock answer, keep writing and writing and writing. Don’t despair, there are many ‘micro-victories’ to be had which can cumulatively change things.

120217 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #858 of 1715 🔗

Absolutely. Saying ‘I despair, I despair’ is the one response that will NOT help.

120418 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #859 of 1715 🔗

Can I suggest that people carry spare exemptions with them to hand out to people too?

120457 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #860 of 1715 🔗

Well said. Our numbers are growing. People just need to know they are not alone.
Drip drip drip!

119892 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Poppy, 12, #861 of 1715 🔗

For me the war was lost the moment we accepted the first lockdown. We failed to grasp the magnitude of the surrender of freedom that was. There is no going back now.

Protests are already effectively illegal by virtue of the £10K fine. The police have clearly demonstrated whose side they are on.

Regardless of whether the politicians know what they doing, clearly they are now enjoying their power and making people suffer, so this is beyond malicious. It is sadistic and evil.

We are learning the hard way that if the majority of a society lives in wilful ignorance, it invariably ends up in an authoritarian state. I would suspect our numbers are around 1% of the population, so naturally there is only so much we can achieve.

119915 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard O, 17, #862 of 1715 🔗

the war was lost the moment we accepted the first lockdown.”

Just remember, though – the original idea was sold on the basis of a short-term measure to keep capacity under control. And this was at a time when the severity of the virus was unknown.

It was later that the whole thing became ludicrously extended.

119931 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to RickH, 9, #863 of 1715 🔗

That has already been written out of history. People I mention this to literally cannot remember this.

119976 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard O, 5, #864 of 1715 🔗

That’s what worries me, how little people can remember anymore.

Almost like the googlebox is screwing with their brains.

119936 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 4, #865 of 1715 🔗

They knew what they were doing from the start, or at least some of the ‘they’ did.

120420 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to RickH, 5, #866 of 1715 🔗

Indeed. ‘Three weeks to flatten the sombrero’ – hey, Boris? You liar!

120012 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Richard O, 5, #867 of 1715 🔗

How could you break it? Go shopping -no all shops shut . Go to pub , cafe, restaurant? Ditto. Day trip to seaside ? All shut and no loos. About all you could do was visit someone.

119893 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Poppy, 9, #868 of 1715 🔗

Actually, I’d put a poem here but changed my mind and want to delete it.

So I’ll replace with my comment to ScooBieDee below, as it seems equally appropriate here.

I actually think things ARE turning. So I’m not gloomy. I’ve seen bits emerging from government papers which suggest a change.
It’s as if there are two sides to the government now – the ongoing Project Fear that we’ve all lived with. They appear to want to live up to the Reasonable Worse Case Scenario, as leaked to Deborah Cohen, make it self fulfilling. Heading for increased measures later this month, and possibly lockdown later in October or November.
But less noticed, in the background, I’ve seen signs of common sense breaking out. It’s as if there are elements in government which recognise that we can’t go on like this.
Hancock is on the Project Fear side. But he’s pretty well irrelevant – the archetypal useful idiot.

119901 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Poppy, 1, #869 of 1715 🔗

It’s not only hard to organise your own protest, you also run the very real risk of being fined £10,000 if you do so.

120527 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chicot, 1, #870 of 1715 🔗

There’s a protest in London on 26th September. I haven’t a clue who is organising it.

119911 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Poppy, 5, #871 of 1715 🔗

I have this argument with my son. He is essentially sceptical, but tends to take a charitable view of motivations (cock-up way ahead of any intent).

Being an academic (and honest), he is also reluctant to see fellow academics as self-seeking publicists etc.

But this latest ramping up of the Fear factor and the use of the Mengele Brigade (SPI-B), as I’ve pointed out to him, tends to diminish the concept of honest mistakes, when the evidence is so incredibly thin and the social and economic damage so immense.

Mis- labelling a fairly ordinary virus as ‘unprecedented’ is in the world of total fiction, not an honest mistake.

119989 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 1, #872 of 1715 🔗

Some people are making honest mistakes, but not all of them.

119943 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, #873 of 1715 🔗

How do folks feel about this mooted new lockdown being incompetence or to cover incompetence?

120530 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #874 of 1715 🔗

or just evil.

119964 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Poppy, 1, #875 of 1715 🔗

I do think there is an understanding across society that at some point a return to the old normal has to happen, but this is a vague fairly unformed notion in most peoples heads. As so often it comes down to leadership, if our political leaders pushed it we could return substantially to normal, the problem is of course that our ‘supreme leader’ doesn’t seem to know what he wants from one day to the next.

119992 ▶▶ davews, replying to Poppy, 2, #876 of 1715 🔗

I know exactly how you feel Poppy. Yesterday I felt very low but seem a little happier today. Maybe going to Tesco this morning and seeing another maskless customer helped, I don’t know, but the longer this nonsense goes on there is no light to be seen. I have a pretty small circle of friends, and sadly those in my church believe everything the media throws at them. But we have a new minister at our Methodist church starting today, maybe as I get to know him there will be somebody who understands how we all feel. But it will do nothing to change the rollercoaster ride to extinction we are heading.

120415 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Poppy, 3, #877 of 1715 🔗

I never believed it was incompetence. Haven’t you heard of the World Economic Forum’s Great Reset? And you do know that Boris is fully committed to zero emissions by 2030? And you do also know that ‘Covid’ has delivered both of those things ‘accidentally’?

120488 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lili, 2, #878 of 1715 🔗

Boris SAID he’s committed to zero emissions but is the blathering liar really capable of being committed to anything?

119882 polistra, replying to polistra, 4, #879 of 1715 🔗

On Melanie Phillips bed-wetting: This is actually consistent. We need to remember that she was a dissident in the 9/11 fake emergency because she wanted MORE harsh reprisals against Muslims, not LESS. Now she wants MORE action against sane science, not LESS. Dissidents aren’t always pro-freedom. Some dissidents want LESS freedom.

(Disclaimer: I was also on the more harshness side in 2001, but I’ve learned a few things since then. Melanie hasn’t learned the same things.)

119898 ▶▶ RickH, replying to polistra, 2, #880 of 1715 🔗

Phillips is a long-tern consistent idiot.

Nothing to see there. Move along.

119883 Jack, replying to Jack, 4, #881 of 1715 🔗

The latest from Alan Jones in Australia:

https://youtu.be/Dy2RsNIC1Og

119995 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Jack, 3, #882 of 1715 🔗

Superb. Why have we not got someone like him over here? Well, I suppose we have, it’s just that they don’t get air time.

119885 mjr, 7, #883 of 1715 🔗

New normal.. Watching triathlon highlights from Hamburg. Shortened course, no spectators (even though it is outdoors and in a park). Commentator said that in the swimming leg where they go round a marker the swimmers have been told not to bump into each other,…to maintain distancing.
Oh . and BBC then showed a brief highlight of the 2017 Leeds triathlon with “the way we were ” playing over the top. Showing when things were normal.. Now then BBC.. whose fault is it that things are not normal ?

119886 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 10, #884 of 1715 🔗

No Covid worth mentioning out there, and still the restrictions on freedom keep coming. They’re not even trying to hide it now – they’re after us meeting in upstairs rooms of pubs and trying to oppose the totalitarian state from the grassroots up.

This is getting as dark as the storm clouds gathering in 1939. I’m sitting on a village green writing this and there is a big group of silly women laughing and talking about men’s willies and transitioning women, FFS. Oblivious, mindless sheep.

A huge turnout is needed on the 26th if this bunch of petty tyrants are to be stopped from turning London into Melbourne.

I’ve shared ‘Number 10 set to reduce the size of legal gatherings’ with you from Spectator

https://app.spectator.co.uk/2020/09/08/number-10-set-to-reduce-the-size-of-legal-gatherings/content.html

119907 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #885 of 1715 🔗

The extension to the Coronavirus Bill will sail through Parliament, the only question is how long will they extend their “emergency” powers for? At least another year, maybe two would be my guess.

119975 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Richard O, #886 of 1715 🔗

I think they’ll keep it indefinitely or at the very least a watered down version ready for use in any and all future emergencies.

120107 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #887 of 1715 🔗

It’s called the ‘coronavirus’ act too, not ‘Covid 19’ act, so can easily be ‘adapted’ to suit any future virus..

120041 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #888 of 1715 🔗

Yes we certainly need a very large crowd on the 26th – the MSM tend to divided the actual number of attendees by 10 for non-state approved causes. And lot’s of people who have had their lives destroyed need to attend so the media can’t say it is only ‘conspiracy theorists’ (not a term I would use to discredit people) attending.

Covid is now being used as a tool to control and socially engineer the population for a ‘new normal’.

119904 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #889 of 1715 🔗

So our Deputy CMO for England J Van-Tam is worried is he?

Here’s a job’s list for him:

Professor Van Tam has also held the following posts:

  • 2004 to 2007: Head of the Pandemic Influenza Office at the UK Health Protection Agency
  • 2005 to 2009: part of the UK national Scientific Pandemic Influenza Committee (SPI)
  • 2007 to 2017: consultant to the World Health Organization on influenza
  • 2007 to date: Professor of Health Protection at the University of Nottingham
  • 2009 to 2010: part of the UK Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) during the influenza pandemic
  • 2010 to 2017: leader of the WHO Collaborating Centre for Pandemic Influenza and Research
  • 2013 to 2017: Editor-in-Chief of Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses
  • 2014 to date: Chair of the UK Government’s New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threat Advisory Group (NERVTAG).

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-deputy-chief-medical-officer-appointed

He’s also worked for what is now called GSK, Roche and Aventis Pasteur MSD, 3 vaccine manufacturers.

Just another establishment cabal placement then.

120102 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #890 of 1715 🔗

That info about him needs to be posted widely! Anyone who has worked for a vaccine manufacturer will not be impartial and will have been ‘bought’ by Gates…

119908 Tking, replying to Tking, 6, #891 of 1715 🔗

Well disaster struck, I have caught a very very mild cold, sore throat which has affected my voice, terrified of anyone finding out as they will assume I have corona, even though I have none of the classic symptoms, no cough, no high temperature, no fatigue, I had to write off this week work wise with silly excuses so wont earn, cant answer my phone as I dont want anyone to hear me. I am so fed up. I would have normally worked through it but now I feel like a leaper. Anyone else had this, I assume this is why no one can get a corona virus test locally as everyone is getting tested as they have the common cold.

119916 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Tking, 6, #892 of 1715 🔗

If you feel sick it’s probably not Covid.

119972 ▶▶▶ Tking, replying to Recusant, 3, #893 of 1715 🔗

What really gets me is I know it’s just a cold, but I have to hide away like I have the plague, please got it gets back to normal soon. 

119927 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tking, 5, #894 of 1715 🔗

My ex-wife coughed yesterday after we dropped off our kid n her first day back at school. “Oops, can’t let the teacher catch me coughing.” She said.

119991 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Tking, 5, #895 of 1715 🔗

Take large does of vitamin C (ascorbic acid powder works fine – mix it with bicarbonate of soda). Also take vitamin D3.

120494 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jane in France, 2, #896 of 1715 🔗

Spray throat with colloidal silver.

120058 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Tking, 3, #897 of 1715 🔗

I absolutely know what you mean – I was sneezing the other morning and thought, oh I hope nobody heard that.

120339 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Tking, 3, #898 of 1715 🔗

Going by the symptoms it could easily be Covid. Indistinguishable from a cold for most people. But the prevalence of SARS2 is now so low it has about a 90% chance of being some other cold.

120451 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to guy153, #899 of 1715 🔗

That’s re-assuring 🙂

119909 Fingerache Philip., 6, #900 of 1715 🔗

Re lockdown in Caerphilly: If you stand for this, your children we be next.
With apologies to the Manic street preachers and the few remaining victims and veterans of the Spanish civil war.

119912 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #901 of 1715 🔗

WILL BE NEXT!!

119985 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #902 of 1715 🔗

A great track!

Apologies if you know this already but on some devices if you point/tap at the bottom right of your post you will see a cogwheel icon that will bring up an ‘Edit’ menu for a short while after you post.

120074 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Strange Days, #903 of 1715 🔗

Thanks.

119913 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 2, #904 of 1715 🔗

Hancock providing stats on hospitalisations and deaths in France and Spain.

Is that in any way accurate?

Where are these stats?

119949 ▶▶ Mark, replying to hotrod, #905 of 1715 🔗
119958 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to hotrod, #906 of 1715 🔗

French data also available here https://www.santepubliquefrance.fr/dossiers/coronavirus-covid-19

SPF is their PHE, so make of that what you will

120003 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to hotrod, 1, #907 of 1715 🔗

Casedemic from Ivor Cummings updated

119914 Awkward Git, 3, #908 of 1715 🔗

Just researching J Van-Tam and come across this:

Strange comment on wikipedia, after listing his SPI, SAGE and NERVTAG roles it says “ His unit is an officially designated WHO Collaborating Centre for pandemic influenza and research “.

Not quite sure what that means.

If you put into duckduckgo “WHO Collaborating Centre for pandemic influenza and research” the first hit after the WHO link is this:

http://www.influenzacentre.org/index.htm – based in melbourne, Victoria, Australia by a strange coincidence.

Here are all the 5 centres for WHO:

https://www.who.int/influenza/gisrs_laboratory/collaborating_centres/collabcentres/en/

I had a mooch through some of the links on the page, very interesting stuff on it like this from February:

Recommended composition of influenza virus vaccines for use in the 2020 – 2021 northern hemisphere influenza season 28 February 2020 It is recommended that quadrivalent vaccines for use in the 2020 – 2021 northern hemisphere influenza season contain the following:
Egg-based Vaccines

  • an A/Guangdong-Maonan/SWL1536/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
  • an A/Hong Kong/2671/2019 (H3N2)-like virus;
  • a B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus; and
  • a B/Phuket/3073/2013 (B/Yamagata lineage)-like virus.

Cell- or recombinant-based Vaccines

  • an A/Hawaii/70/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
  • an A/Hong Kong/45/2019 (H3N2)-like virus;
  • a B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus; and
  • a B/Phuket/3073/2013 (B/Yamagata lineage)-like virus.

It is recommended that trivalent influenza vaccines for use in the 2020 – 2021 northern hemisphere influenza season contain the following:
Egg-based Vaccines

  • an A/Guangdong-Maonan/SWL1536/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
  • an A/Hong Kong/2671/2019 (H3N2)-like virus; and
  • a B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus.

Cell- or recombinant-based Vaccines

  • an A/Hawaii/70/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
  • an A/Hong Kong/45/2019 (H3N2)-like virus; and
  • a B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus.

Will have to see what else is on it.

119917 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 8, #909 of 1715 🔗

Has anyone ever discussed the possibility of the March 2020 to May 2020 outbreak in the UK being the second wave? With tests now just picking up the dead virus. With so many infected in the past, this could well explain rising “case” numbers.

Now, I mention second wave, because it is quite interesting doing detailed searches of Google’s news archives. I think it may have been suggested before, but reading between the lines, was the first wave actually right in front of our eyes, and no one noticed it?!

Huge increases in UK hospitalisations, reported on 19/12/2019
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7810129/Flu-cases-EIGHT-TIMES-higher-point-UK-winter.html

Serious strain on health services in Ireland, reported on 27/12/2019
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-outbreak-linked-to-18-deaths-and-strain-on-emergency-departments-1.4125414

This is an interesting one, reported 11/12/2019. Hospitals at breaking point, due to a winter surge. Snippets such as “Lewisham and Greenwich Trust in London declared an internal black alert after recording its busiest day ever at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, with 605 patients attending its A&E.” And: “Portsmouth’s Queen Alexandra Hospital declared a “black alert” on Saturday night after 195 ambulances turned up with sick patients, a 46 per cent rise, the trust said.”
And, patients in corridors….sound familiar?! A quote: “I’m fed up with slaloming my way between patients on trolleys in corridors to get to other patients.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-hospitals-boris-johnson-winter-crisis-emergency-beds-a9242961.html

Of course, Wales joined the party too on 12/12/2019:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/flu-vaccine-wales-nhs-gp-17408950

New York too would you believe on 26/12/2019, with state officials saying: “there are more cases at this point in time than the past three flu seasons.”
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/12/26/flu-nyc-department-of-health-flu-symptoms-flu-shot/

Would it be wrong to say this is what they tried to blame vaping for pneumonia originally? This report from 23/12/2019…
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/health/vaping-illness-tracker.html

And finally, India, as reported on 5/12/2019, saw a 60% increase pneumonia and viral fever in the last week:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/60-rise-in-pneumonia-cases-as-winter-kicks-in/articleshow/72374835.cms

So have we had the second wave already? Could a huge percentage have had “it,” not known it, and this is then picked up when people get tested in recent days, and probably have a different virus too which caused them to seek medical assistance.

Interesting….

120002 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #910 of 1715 🔗

I’ve thought about this too. It’s definitely a possibility. Although hospitals are overwhelmed pretty much every winter now and continue to operate on an emergency footing throughout the summer at times.

120084 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #911 of 1715 🔗

It is an interesting theory, and one that crossed my mind as well. Thanks for finding and posting the links to the contemporary reports.

120213 ▶▶ annie, replying to mrjoeaverage, #912 of 1715 🔗

THERE IS NO SECOND WAVE. IT’S A FEARMONGERING MYTH.

119921 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #914 of 1715 🔗

What is the current reason put forward for why 7 billion need this vaccine?

Looking for a summary reason why it is important for the vaccine efficacy that no one is allowed to go without.

It used to be an individual was protected by having the shot. Now that isn’t good enough. What is their stated rationale?

119948 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 3, #915 of 1715 🔗

I have not been able to find one other than Bill Gates saying “it’s not an option”.

120100 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 2, #916 of 1715 🔗

except he will not be taking it himself, nor his family…nor any deemed ‘elite’…

119973 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 2, #917 of 1715 🔗

Everyone who doesn’t need it needs it to protect those who are at risk.

ergo, anybody who doesn’t need it will be forced to have it.

That’s the logic.

120054 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #918 of 1715 🔗

Thanks. I appreciate you saying. It’s not something you can search. And genuine opinion is what I was looking for.

You can hardly believe it can you.
It rounds down to the vaccine doesn’t work and therefore 7 billion need to take it.

120098 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 3, #919 of 1715 🔗

because Gates is a eugenicist and knows a lot of people will die from the vaccine alone…

120255 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 3, #920 of 1715 🔗

It goes like this (don’t kill the messenger – I’m not agreeing with it):
The old and immunocompromised are unlikely to gain significant benefit from a vaccine and the vaccine anyway is unlikely to be 100% effective.

In order to achieve herd immunity through vaccination, you therefore need to vaccinate the maximum possible number of people, in order to make sure that the maximum possible number of people are immune. This in turn will limit the spread of the virus, because it will have fewer people it can infect. This then protects the elderly and the vulnerable, because they are less likely to come into contact with an infected person.

We’ll ignore the fact that you could achieve the same thing by – say – allowing fit, younger people to mix as much as possible and in the largest numbers possible over the summer.

120307 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #921 of 1715 🔗

We’ll also ignore the simple accuracy of the natural way cannot be replicated by pharma factories.

Thank you Matt. Really very helpful.

Extraordinary the explanation is so hard to find. It is a weak spot.

119923 Awkward Git, 1, #922 of 1715 🔗

Found this an interesting read:

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/274298/9789241514507-eng.pdf?ua=1

It’s one of quite a few handy guides on here:

https://www.who.int/influenza/preparedness/en/

There is even a nice handbook for journalists at the bottom – one for Toby maybe.

119925 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #923 of 1715 🔗

Any news on what the behavioural scientists have been up to since March? Any attempts made to better nuance their psy-op at all?

119978 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #924 of 1715 🔗

Involved with mask propaganda no doubt .quarantines as well.

119996 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #925 of 1715 🔗

Certainly not behaving themselves

120008 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #926 of 1715 🔗

“Don’t kill granny” was probably their doing.

120031 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #927 of 1715 🔗

Don’t know if we can do a freedom of information request on the work of the Behavioural Insights Team? they are undoubtably running (and completely ruining) the country in my opinion.

119933 richard riewer, 1, #928 of 1715 🔗

Worth watching. Interview with Bjorn Lomborg on his latest book on Climate Change,
False Alarm. He is not a denier or irrational about the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxWYglbtqnQ

119934 BeBopRockSteady, 9, #929 of 1715 🔗

The Irish Health service published their analysis of Covid-19 deaths. The average age was 82. Averga elife expectancy is 82 as it goes. Those who died of Covid with no underlying conditions from a total of 1,777? 100

119937 Awkward Git, 1, #930 of 1715 🔗

Found this one, very informative I thought:

https://www.who.int/csr/resources/publications/swineflu/framework_20090626_en.pdf?ua=1

Pity the world’s Governments didn’t follow it.

The chart/flow diagram on page 5 says it all really.

119951 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #932 of 1715 🔗

Bolton: take aways only. Venues closed between 10pm and 5 AM

119979 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to p02099003, 5, #933 of 1715 🔗

Its a very clever virus, it can tell the time as well.

119987 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #934 of 1715 🔗

Clearly nocturnal

119993 ▶▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Kev, 6, #935 of 1715 🔗

Well it is bat flu………….

120151 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #936 of 1715 🔗

I have known this since we started “socially distanced” time-limited church bellringing. We are only allowed to ring for 15 minutes. So the virus keeps itself to itself for 14 minutes, but if we keep ringing for 16 minutes it will suddenly appear, having been hiding in the bells, and slide from the belfry down the ropes and infect the ringer on the end of the rope. It is a fact. It also knows if we are ringing for a service (it keeps at bay for 15 minutes) or a practice – it will come and get us straight away.

120005 ▶▶ Julian, replying to p02099003, 1, #937 of 1715 🔗

Another locked down place with a high % of ethnic minority population

120022 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Julian, 3, #938 of 1715 🔗

I wonder if the population has received instructions from community leaders to get tested and blindly gone along with it, not realising they are causing their own imprisonment. Not convinced the communities realise the complete scam that testing the perfectly healthy to lock them up is.

119954 p02099003, replying to p02099003, #939 of 1715 🔗

Socialising outside of household will become law and not just guidance (Bolton only I think)

120027 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to p02099003, #940 of 1715 🔗

Better start learning (East) German…

119956 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 5, #941 of 1715 🔗

Disgusting Grad journalism.

“The first minister said a majority of the big spike of cases in Scotland, which has led to three deaths overnight of confirmed patients in hospital,”

Led???? Really?

120010 ▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, 4, #942 of 1715 🔗

So – the lying and distortion has become even more egregious.

Looks like that’s the way we’re heading as the virus recedes.

119959 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 10, #943 of 1715 🔗

My predictions for Q4 2020:

1) Second wave
2) Second lockdown
3) Mandatory masks everywhere at all times (including private property)
4) Mandatory testing
5) Economic collapse
6) Food and water shortages
7) Power and communications outages
8) Internet purge
9) Civil unrest
10) Martial law

Leading to the following in Q1 2021:

11) Mandatory vaccination (refusal leading to exclusion from work, travel and access to money)
12) Great Reset (to last until 2100 and beyond)

119962 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard O, 5, #944 of 1715 🔗

Liverpool to retain the league

120063 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #945 of 1715 🔗

Now you’re in the realms of fantasy.

120501 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #946 of 1715 🔗

Feel free to do one, AG. 🙂

119988 ▶▶ Philip F, replying to Richard O, 2, #947 of 1715 🔗

I thought I was pessimistic… But some of it is certainly a possibility.

120013 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Richard O, 6, #948 of 1715 🔗

Unfortunately I think all your prophecies will come true apart from 9) Civil unrest – the vast majority of the population have fully brought into the state propaganda to to the extent that that it is probably irreversible – like a ‘Covid-19 Cult’. Only a few of us will put up any resistance.

120042 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Darryl, 5, #949 of 1715 🔗

That is my thinking, that there will always be a minority who will rebel. The numbers might increase a bit if/when food starts running out, and this will provide enough pretext for an authoritarian crackdown. It’s already been done in Victoria with only a minuscule percentage of the population actively protesting.

120064 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Richard O, 4, #950 of 1715 🔗

Not sure how true the anti Iraq war protest attendance was as much of the media and left was supportive of the movement. But it would be great to see similar numbers. Unfortunately the left support harsh lockdowns and the young only come out and protest for establishment backed movements like Black Lives Matter and Extinction Rebellion. I still think a 100,000+ peaceful protest is possible if we wake enough people up.

The last big protest had many elderly and disabled attendees but the young were underrepresented and yet their futures will be completely screwed – I don’t think they realise what life is like if you lose true freedom.

120159 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Darryl, 3, #951 of 1715 🔗

This is not confined to a single country however. Hopefully we can bring some Anglo Irish rebellion to bear on this for one

120690 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Darryl, #952 of 1715 🔗

We should add in the end of furlough at end of Oct. Plus I think the food shortages will kick in before the end of the year, as it becomes obvious that we are about to crash out after the Brexit non-negotiations. 4-5m unemployed. And the £ takes a hammering any time from here on in, leading to higher prices on all imported goods. This will be aided by Soros et al shorting (selling without actually buying) the £. EU hauliers will simply stop coming if their lorry and goods are impounded for an indefinite time. Immunity passport required for ration card?. £ 40-50% depreciation by year end? What do people do when they have neither a living income and there is no food in the shops? That is when I can see civil unrest (to put it mildly).
It’s not 50% of food imported; it’s really 80% before processing in the UK.
The business pages often actually give away more than other news outlets on economic impact (and vacccine development).
https://www.businessinsider.com/no-deal-brexit-percentage-british-food-imported-shortages-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

120503 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, #953 of 1715 🔗

I bet you’re really in demand for dinner parties, Richard.

119967 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #954 of 1715 🔗

Something I read earlier coupled with other discussion seen on Twitter made me think (it happens sometimes).

https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/09/08/latest-news-128/#comment-119421

The point was made that the Ferguson/Imperial models were not predictions. This is a valid point that I don’t disagree with. I have likened modelling to pension planning illustrations.

However, only recently (didn’t realise it was June) it was reported that the same people involved in the original modelling essentially “marked their own work” and claimed that they saved millions of lives.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52968523

If they are not predictions then they cannot possibly claim to have saved any lives. It would be akin to claiming to have almost made a maximum 147 break in snooker but missing on the first red.

119977 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #955 of 1715 🔗

It’s the same double speak that is in climate science. The models are projections not predictions. I don’t really care as all that counts is that they SHOULD NOT BE USED to drive real world policy.

That point never seems to come up with these esteemed modellers

120004 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 4, #956 of 1715 🔗

they SHOULD NOT BE USED to drive real world policy”

That is the essential point.

And nor should crap scientists be allowed anywhere near setting a policy agenda.

Total disqualification for anyone receiving finance and/or support from the Pharmaceutical Industry or related foundations etc.

WHO relationships to be critically vetted for independent thinking and lack of political influence.

Yeh – I know. “You wish!”

119997 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #957 of 1715 🔗

Indeed – like I’ve said here before re Ferguson, public health officials etc. – what an easy job when your key performance indicator is that reality should never be as bad as your prediction!

120006 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, #958 of 1715 🔗

I’ve had a 9 dart finish but missed the 1st treble 20

120035 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #959 of 1715 🔗

I saved £200,000 this year, by not buying a Bentley. The misses was dead chuffed.

120237 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #960 of 1715 🔗

My mother saves so much money taking advantage of BOGOF (Buy One Get One Free) offers. The money she’s saved buying things she wouldn’t have bought otherwise really adds up.

119971 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #961 of 1715 🔗

Crazy Over “Cases” | Carl Vernon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jWyIe1VkEE

119974 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #962 of 1715 🔗

RT tv are covering a survey of 1700 NHS workers. Two thirds are saying they plan to leave the NHS. Mixed reasons, the handling of the Covid (political) crisis, gagging orders and a removal of benefits. Only caught those details in passing.

120094 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 3, #963 of 1715 🔗

That could be interesting… might they set up an underground alternative health service?

120138 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #964 of 1715 🔗

Have often thought tge people should set up parallel institutions. In my more hopeful moments. Tax that is the stickler.

119980 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 10, #965 of 1715 🔗

I’m getting a lot of companies telling me that staff returning to the office is not going to be sustainable as they’re not allowed to turn on the air conditioning and heating systems because of the risk of transmissions of COVID-19. Fortunately the hot weather seems to have gone for this year, but come a few months time staff will not be able to work in the office again as the offices will be freezing. An employee at one company was telling me that they returned last week and the office was freezing then, so much so that staff were having to go to their cars during breaks to start their engines and put the heating on!

Has anyone else come across this who has returned to work recently or knows of people that have returned to work?

Also, the new way of working is peeing a lot of people off with all the red tape they’re having to follow and there’s no enjoyment from being at work with colleagues anymore. Here’s just a few of them:

  • Lunches at one place have to be spread out over 6 hours which means staff have to start taking their lunch after just one hour of the day.
  • Staff have been told to come in as we’re losing the team ethic, yet staff can’t go close to each other such as sitting next to each other.
  • No food is allowed to be eaten in the office.
  • Constant cleaning and sanitising of desks, door handles, buttons, screens, etc.
119990 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 7, #966 of 1715 🔗

At least I don’t have to cope with this extra.

I feel for you; total fairy-tale bollocks.

119994 ▶▶ Will, replying to JohnB, 5, #967 of 1715 🔗

Complete nonsense. Nearly as ridiculous as the ban on playing the organ in church…

120065 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Will, 6, #968 of 1715 🔗

It is nonsense, as the staff have to work like this, but they can finish at 5pm and go to the pub together where they don’t have to bother with any of this!

120001 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to JohnB, 1, #969 of 1715 🔗

What is the theory about no food in the office?

120052 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to arfurmo, 3, #970 of 1715 🔗

Seems to be something truly bizarre about crumbs from food I’m being told.

120207 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 2, #971 of 1715 🔗

Coronacrumbs.

120011 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to JohnB, 6, #972 of 1715 🔗

My office took the opposite approach – they said they cranked up the air conditioning to the max to filter out all the coronas! I guess everyone’s making up “the Science” now.

They also decided to gold-plate the government requirements and said we have to be also be masked any time we are away from our desk (including in the toilet cubicles, though not sure if they are monitoring that yet). Plus >2m away for other people at all time. No exemptions. Still have the option to WFH, so most people continuing with that as long as it lasts, as it seem completely anti-social in the office (or they are scared, or both).

120061 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to zacaway, 6, #973 of 1715 🔗

It really is anti-social, staff are not allowed to look at each other when passing on stairs and when talk, so they’re sitting back to back having conversation! I was told there’s no conversation going on or normal interaction, staff are just clock watching waiting for the day to end so they can get out of the place.

120139 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to JohnB, 2, #974 of 1715 🔗

Pretty much the same rules at our place. Air con and heating has to be off and people have to “dress accordingly”. Will be fun in the winter.

120533 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Chicot, #975 of 1715 🔗

Typing in sheepskin mittens should be interesting.

119986 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #976 of 1715 🔗

Here is a screenshot of page 5 mentioned earlier

119999 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #977 of 1715 🔗

Thanks for this. Pretty much the same advice the government gave at the height of the pandemic. I came across this relic from that time…

120040 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Quernus, 2, #978 of 1715 🔗

I kept the leaflet sent to most households at the beginning of this farce. The 6 diagrams showing how to wash your hands still makes me laugh.

120105 ▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to bluemoon, 4, #979 of 1715 🔗

I sometimes wonder what I would have done differently back then if I knew where we would be today. I knew things weren’t right, but I don’t think I would have imagined it would have gone so badly so quickly.

120205 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to bluemoon, 2, #980 of 1715 🔗

First, find your hands. In most people, the hands are the fingery things at the ends of your arms.
If you don’t know how to find your arms, consult us online…

120046 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Quernus, 1, #981 of 1715 🔗

Yep, what they ere doing until march 23rd.

120535 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #982 of 1715 🔗

A five year old could tell you that.

119998 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 17, #983 of 1715 🔗

Letter from Janet Menage, retired GP in BMJ Rapid Responses – I won’t comment further about bed-wetting:

Re: Covid-19: testing asymptomatic schoolchildren risks psychological harm Re: Covid-19: Government faces criticism over £500m plan to pilot mass testing Gareth Iacobucci. 370:doi 10.1136/bmj.m3482
Dear Editor
It is reported that more than a thousand children in the Manchester area have been sent home to self-isolate after testing “positive” with a notoriously non-specific and unreliable PCR test. (1)
What is sadly missing from the medical discussion is an acknowledgement that terrifying asymptomatic children (and their parents) into believing that, despite feeling perfectly well, they harbour a deadly virus, that they are powerless in the face of this threat from within their own bodies, that they might die or cause their friends and family to die, merely by being near them, will inevitably lead to psychological trauma.
This has been publicly documented by a child and adolescent psychiatrist who has seen, “a “rapid and substantial increase” since March in cases of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, bedwetting, self-harming, violence, panic attacks and related symptoms of emotional illness among the children he treats”.(2)
Are doctors so lacking in imagination and empathy, that they cannot envision the grief caused by being separated from grandparents, from being forbidden to hug their loved ones or being unable to see their faces? The guilt engendered by worrying that they are a danger to other people and are so toxic that they have to be kept away from them, cannot play, cannot sing, cannot do sport, in other words, cannot enjoy childhood?
When will my profession come clean, admit that it has been misled, take back control of its mission to Do No Harm, and desist from colluding with what can only be described as state-sponsored child abuse?
(1) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsmanchester/more-than-a-thousand-pupil
(2) The Negative effect of Covid Lockdown On Children. YouTube 27 July 2020.
Competing interests: No competing interests
08 September 2020
Janet Menage
GP retired
None
Wales

120199 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to John Stone, 3, #984 of 1715 🔗

The problem is that she’s retired. When will the practicing physicians show some courage? I don’t know how they live with themselves.

120000 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #985 of 1715 🔗

Listen carefully, I will say this only once, the resistance has arrived
 Beauty salon is slammed after putting up poster denying coronavirus exists and telling customers they don’t need to wear face masks

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8708875/Merseyside-beauty-salon-slammed-putting-poster-denying-coronavirus-exists.html

120009 Hester, replying to Hester, 18, #986 of 1715 🔗

I think we should start a list of shaming GP Surgeries who are refusing to see patients but are firstly triaging by phone to make diagnosis. I think by having a shaming list it might actually force these people back into doing their jobs instead of doing a task which quite frankly an algorithm could do. I am happy to be the first to shame my local local Sugery.

First I will explain the nature of my medical problem. I had an hysterectomy some 10 years ago but my Ovaries were left in place. Recently I have had pain and pressure in my abdomen and many of the symptoms seem consistent with either Ovarian cancer, a prolapse or a hernia.

Today I called my GP I am not a frequent user probably less than 1 visit per year. first I was treated to an approximate 2 minute speech on what to do if it is an emergency, call 999 er duh! then if not then If i were to visit the surgery I must wear a mask go in a certain door because there is a pandemic things would not be as usual. After this I had to wait in a call queue for another 5 minutes. Incidentally you cannot book an appointment to see a Doctor if its a none emergency so everyone is advised to be on the phone at 8,30 am in the morning if they want to have contact with a Doctor that day.

After 5 mins call queueing a receptionist answered. I said I would like an appointment to see a Doctor. she asked was it an emergency, I said I didn’t know but I think from the symptoms i may have Ovarian cancer, a prolapse or a hernia, and I would like a blood test to check for the former. I was then told the Doctors were triaging (not sure if thats the correct spelling) by phone and that a Doctor would call me after 5pm this evening.
My question is how is this Doctor going to be able to find out what the problem is without examining me? or taking a blood test? So after this pointless call I guess I will be given an appointment some time hence one appointment to see a GP, another to have my bloods taken by a nurse as the GPS don’t do that, and then what? I wait. So in the worst case if its Cancer it gets another few weeks to do its thing in my body.
How many other Surgeries are behaving this way for an illness Covid that kills 0.04 percent of the population, whilst hospitals lie unused?
So I think naming and shaming surgeries is the way to start.
I will update post my Triage
My surgery is
The Whitehouse Surgery – Moreton in the Marsh

120015 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Hester, 5, #987 of 1715 🔗

Yarm Medical Centre, Stockton-on-Tees

120016 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Hester, 9, #988 of 1715 🔗

I think that there is another dimension : the additional anxiety caused by this Scary Fairy Dance around GP services.

The last few months have been an object lesson in answering the question about the Third Reich :

“How on earth could it have happened?”

120018 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Hester, 5, #989 of 1715 🔗

Scotland. The government have annouced that ALL gp condultations will from now on be by video link (skpye/zoom/etc) with the option to opt out. This was declared within the last week.

Expect to see huge waiting lists for surgery appointments as fewer slots will be offered to push people online.

120029 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 8, #990 of 1715 🔗

So we can tick two boxes for explaining the financial influences :

  1. Big Pharma
  2. IT Industries
120050 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Hester, 8, #991 of 1715 🔗

It really is beyond comprehendible that someone could listen to your concerns and not be moved to try and help you. How can they call themselves medical ‘professionals’?

I hope you get some sense in your after 5 p.m. call.

120085 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Hester, 3, #992 of 1715 🔗

I work in healthcare. I am seeing patients referred by GP surgeries. Sometimes the patient has been spoken to by a GP who decides that a face to face appointment is needed or can disgnose without seeing the patient. Usually, however, it is a receptionist who makes the appointment with me, either face to face or sometimes a telephone consultation/triage; I then have to find time to see them face to face or even worse send them to A&E unnecessarily.

120132 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Hester, 3, #993 of 1715 🔗

Just copy and paste that to your MP/Councillor

What the hell are they there for if they continue to stand for this stuff?

120194 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Hester, 1, #994 of 1715 🔗

That’s absolutely disgraceful. I’m very sorry for your predicament; I don’t think it’s as bad here in Canada, but I stay as far away from the medical system as I can so I’m not sure. My daughter used tele-health for her recurring tonsillitis and got antibiotics without being seen or swabbed, but that’s a situation where maybe not being seen is a good thing (other than over-prescribing antibiotics when not necessary). But your concern is absolutely one which requires an in-person appointment. I can understand a very timely call back to asses whether in-person is needed, but then an appointment should be made for a proper consultation immediately if indicated. Hoping you get the care you need and please keep us posted.

120201 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hester, 1, #995 of 1715 🔗

I can only say, it’s a scandal and an outrage and you MP ought to step in.
Some hope…

120014 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 20, #996 of 1715 🔗

Matt Hancock: ‘This virus thrives on complacency’
Who the hell does he think he’s talking to – a load of children! The virus is a piece of genetic material. It doesn’t think or breathe. But like Thomas the Tank Engine, anthropomorphise it. Then the sheeple will understand. What an absolute tosspot!

120017 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Tenchy, 19, #997 of 1715 🔗

He is a complete fucking idiot. And he has the sort of face you just wanna punch.

120020 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to HelzBelz, 10, #998 of 1715 🔗

I agree – and I’m a pacifist 🙂

120039 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RickH, 5, #999 of 1715 🔗

Just think of your fist as a pacifier.

120111 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #1000 of 1715 🔗

Yes a loathsome creature. He loves it, he can’t hide his relish when telling his fairy tales of doom.

120019 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1001 of 1715 🔗

S’cuse language but: twat!

120023 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1002 of 1715 🔗

… and if you want ‘complacency’, I can think of no better example than those who think this social and economic damage doesn’t matter.

120026 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to Tenchy, 8, #1003 of 1715 🔗

He’s ignorant, arrogant and patronising. And those are the positive things about him.

120044 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Banjones, 3, #1004 of 1715 🔗

Maybe being married to one of the aristocracy and nobility has gone to his head.

Hancock married an osteopath, Martha Hoyer Millar, in 2006, and together they have three small children, a daughter and two sons as well as a dachshund called Hercules (which Hancock will occasionally document via his Instagram). With noble connections, Martha , a red head, is the granddaughter of Frederick Millar, 1st Baron Inchyra , a British diplomat who served as Ambassador to West Germany from 1955 to 1956. Baron Inchyra had four children, two sons and two daughters, their youngest, Dame Annabel Whitehead, was a Lady-in-Waiting to Princess Margaret and later to the Queen.”.

120048 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1005 of 1715 🔗

Hugh Laurie, Blackadder – Prince George(?) Hancock. To a tee!

120140 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1006 of 1715 🔗

There are some excellent comments on his Instagram but not nearly enough (I imagine they are censored pretty aggressively though).

https://www.instagram.com/matthancockmp/

120187 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1007 of 1715 🔗

This virus thrives on Hangcockism.

120024 Banjones, replying to Banjones, 9, #1008 of 1715 🔗

Where are all these thousands of people coming from, who are being tested all over the country? I know of only three people who’ve had a test before a hospital procedure, and they said they were the only ones there! Shouldn’t we expect to be seeing mobile testing stations everywhere? Queues of people waiting?
In Caerphilly – 44 new ”cases” (ie positive results, not ”cases”). What proportion was that of the number actually tested? And where did these people come from? They’re not ill, or being taken to hospital.
Are we being duped?

120032 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Banjones, 11, #1009 of 1715 🔗

Are we being duped?”

I think the answer is self-evident.

120037 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Banjones, 2, #1010 of 1715 🔗

They go door to door in targeted areas.

120479 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Charlie Blue, #1011 of 1715 🔗

Is a return to the middle ages called for, when people emptied chamber pots out of upstairs windows ?

120511 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to JohnB, #1012 of 1715 🔗

Don’t put ideas in my head.

120554 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Thinkaboutit, #1013 of 1715 🔗

That was my hope … 🙂

120033 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 14, #1014 of 1715 🔗

My civil service department has an internal staff website with a weekly poll.

This week

What type of face covering do you prefer?

Bandana/scarf
Disposable
I made my own
Reusable

What a fucking disgrace, this is a department always banging on about equality, mental health, inclusion and healthy living.

I should and will not give it the time of day, whoever put it on there and agreed it should be ashamed.

120034 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to stefarm, 19, #1015 of 1715 🔗

Wasn’t there a “None, because they are fucking useless” option?

120124 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stefarm, 2, #1016 of 1715 🔗

Christ. That kind of thing is the real virus. Protect yourself, stay safe. Keep your head.

120183 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to stefarm, 3, #1017 of 1715 🔗

I get so incensed every time I see a survey that only gives you the option of choosing between bad and worse. Questions like: Do you think the safety measures in place are sufficient or need to be strengthened? Do you feel it’s safe to open schools? (No, because of mandatory face masks on kids — but that answer is not an option). We’ve all seen them.

120229 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to stefarm, 3, #1018 of 1715 🔗

You and I work for the same civil service department! I was tempted to ask where the option was for ‘I’m exempt’. Totally agree that they are usually so big on ramming inclusion & equalities down our throats but apparently that’s only when it suits them. Clearly going against the grain and not wearing a muzzle doesn’t fit the narrative.

120234 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #1019 of 1715 🔗

Damn right, me too.

120263 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1020 of 1715 🔗

No offence to you two or your colleagues, but I’m so glad to be out of that fucking cesspit. My equally unprincipled and disgraceful former employer did my head in with promoting conformist shit like that.

120036 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 5, #1021 of 1715 🔗

The MSM is seriously pushing the “surge in cases” narrative. I’m despondent.

120045 ▶▶ RickH, replying to mattghg, 4, #1022 of 1715 🔗

Yes – to the informed it’s blatantly a scam, but an indicator of things to come.

120055 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #1023 of 1715 🔗

… and just to add : Recognise what you are dealing with : Psychopathy and Gullibility, with a bit in between.

Remember : Your narcissistic and sociopathic PM has appointed this cabinet that the Ship of Fools wouldn’t want as crew.

That PM is the homunculus representing what we face in terms of ‘Houston, we have a problem’.

120126 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to mattghg, 1, #1024 of 1715 🔗

I ask again – where are they finding all these people to test? They’re quoting figures in the thousands!

120043 Basics, replying to Basics, 13, #1025 of 1715 🔗

The local park today had sun in it. A popular bench has fine views and is itself overlooked by homes at the edge of the park. At the height of the 3-weeks-to-save-humankind the overlooking homes felt so alarmed at people using the bench that they taped a sign to the seat of the bench.

Words about if only you knew how many people sat on this bench you would not use it. This is where you will catch your death – this was before the halcyon days of granny killing upon us.

Today with the sun and the tatty sign long ago ripped off by one passing human or other the scene was idylllic. Two smooching students on the bench and the overlooking house looking on and onwards at the majesty of it all.

Times are a’changin’. Another way of looking at the 6 months is they haven’t beaten us and we are stronger.

120185 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 1, #1026 of 1715 🔗

Long live the smooch.

120051 6097 Smith W, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #1027 of 1715 🔗

The number of “positive test results has doubled suddenly and stayed at the higher level this is obviously because they have changed what is reported as a “positive” does anyone know what has changed?

120121 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #1028 of 1715 🔗

They are calling it a backlog

120136 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1029 of 1715 🔗

Not related but the backstop has become the… frontstop. It is all proverbial meaningless twaddle isn’t it, truly.

120474 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1030 of 1715 🔗

Ooh, agile comes to corona town ! 🙂

120053 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 5, #1031 of 1715 🔗

No more demonstrations? No 10 not ruling out reducing size of gatherings as cases rise Downing Street is not ruling out reducing the number of people who can meet in groups in England in response to a recent rise in infections.
The Prime Minister’s official spokesman said it was taking the increase “extremely seriously” and there was a need to “act decisively” to stop that translating into a rise in hospitalisations.
He said that meant “ensuring that we continue to have a robust quarantine policy….acting “decisively where there are local outbreaks” and “keeping all of our guidance under review to see if there are any further steps that we need to take”.
Responding to reports that the government is looking at restricting the number of people who can gather to a maximum of six, he said that it had kept regulations under review throughout the pandemic and wouldn’t hesitate to act if further steps were needed.

120067 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Andrew, 3, #1032 of 1715 🔗

2000 folk assembled booed and hissed – yes literally – at Lesley Mcinnes Edinburgh council unlikeable transport infrastucture change agent. This happened in a local park with covids doing whatever covids do.

If a gathering of 8 is only allowed… then what is the distance that declares one gathering from another gathering? Is it intent that law defines as a gathering? Assembled for one reason. Well I can think on hundreds of different reasons while I type that people may like to gather.

120079 ▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to Basics, 5, #1033 of 1715 🔗

Right lads – Split up. One gang on each corner.

120073 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Andrew, 5, #1034 of 1715 🔗

could you have a BLM anti-lockdown demonstration?

120078 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #1035 of 1715 🔗

Perhaps after Biden is elected and Covid suddenly disappears.

120133 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Darryl, #1036 of 1715 🔗

But Biden has said he will bring in mandatory masking!

120137 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to DressageRider, 2, #1037 of 1715 🔗

Kamala Harris walked that back this weekend, which I found very interesting. Perhaps they are beginning to realize that infringing on civil liberties isn’t a winning election issue. One can hope…

120242 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to DressageRider, 1, #1038 of 1715 🔗

Got a feeling Biden is completely controlled by his advisors – he can say completely different things different days and the media wouldn’t take issue with it – a bit like with Fauci. Biden’s advisors would soon change their minds depending on opinion polls. The media would forget about Covid with a Democrat victory, and the media is the real virus.

120082 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to 6097 Smith W, 5, #1039 of 1715 🔗

Let’s see… Righteous outrage against draconian measures: 73 yr old arrested and fined £10,000; BLM riot, damaging property: police kneel, nowt said.
Oh yes, I think we could allow that. Getting royally fucked off with this, now.
Edit: didn’t see Darryl’s comment below.

120077 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Andrew, 12, #1040 of 1715 🔗

It’s clear they want to clamp down hard on any public dissent of our rulers, hence the rough treatment of Piers Corbyn. Where are the international human rights charities when you need them? there would be outrage (and riots) if a BLM protest figurehead was treated in this fashion.

120890 ▶▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Darryl, #1041 of 1715 🔗

If anyone knows anyone connected to such charities might be a good time to make them sweat a bit by inquiring what they are doing to help our hero Piers.

120056 Kath Andrews, 33, #1042 of 1715 🔗

Have just come back from a local shop. The person serving me has been a full on sceptic since the start of this and I’ve always enjoyed our sceptical chats. There was a man in the queue behind me and he said “at last…some sensible conversation” – we all ended up having a good chat – this person queried the testing – and that his dad does (he said his dad works at the hospital); he said he had just got chatting to two other ‘sceptics’ in another shop. We forgot there were others around – a bloke who seemed inquisitive and a lady who said nothing (wearing a mask) but heard everything we were saying. I was having a shocker of a day with all of this, but, maybe people are starting to query things more?

120057 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #1043 of 1715 🔗

Sorry, folks, but it’s getting bad. Very bad. We are right, we are reasoned and scientific, but we are few, very few.

120062 ▶▶ Nappyleon, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1044 of 1715 🔗

Maybe more than you think, I know at least two(myself included).

120069 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #1045 of 1715 🔗

Agree with that…This will be a bad long winter.We are in such small numbers that it’s fucking depressing. Look at a London lock down protest..35,000…for a City of 9 million people that is a fucking disgrace. Every Rugby or Football game would produce considerably greater numbers…9 of of 10 people have completely swallowed the MSM narrative and will BEG the government for their freedoms to be taken away…

120076 ▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to Thomas_E, 6, #1046 of 1715 🔗

I can feel the anger growing though. This could get very messy.

120468 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, #1047 of 1715 🔗

True, but the shift is in our favour. People are waking up one by one. I’ve yet to hear of a sceptic suddenly being converted by Handcock’s rhetoric.

Soon we will be mighty. If we stay positive, rational, and loving, we can’t fail.

As I commented elsewhere, we (people with little to gain and everything to lose from this nwo/reset) vastly outnumber the bad guys. And we are infinitely more motivated.

120060 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 3, #1048 of 1715 🔗

Here come the ‘non mandatory’ vaccines folks!

Apparently they aren’t mandatory, but you won’t be able to work, shop or travel if you abstain.

https://twitter.com/YellowCube7/status/1303287412110491651

120122 ▶▶ Banjones, replying to 2 pence, 1, #1049 of 1715 🔗

Sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442
It won’t do any good – but at least it shows some of us care, and are on to them.

120180 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Banjones, 2, #1050 of 1715 🔗

It’s well over the 100,000 now, so the buggers will at least have to admit that it exists.

120068 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 27, #1052 of 1715 🔗

We are at a very very dangerous crossroads right now. Freedoms are slipping away at lightening speed and most of this country can’t see what the f$ck is happening.

120083 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Andrew, 17, #1053 of 1715 🔗

We are. But you try and explain this to people and they just bloody glaze over. When I am asked “how are you?” and I reply “I’m fine apart from living in a dystopian nightmare, thanks” I just get a blank look or, depressingly a “really?” And I just bloody despair, I really do.

The most talked about subject I have heard at work today is… the weather.

120086 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 9, #1054 of 1715 🔗

There’s that bemused “Ooh, you and your rebel nonsense” look isn’t there?

120145 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #1055 of 1715 🔗

Exactly. And this from the woman who looks like the love-child of Alvin Stardust and Mrs Merton! (with her bloody black gloves on …).

120093 ▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to kh1485, 3, #1056 of 1715 🔗

Nutter?

120437 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andrew, #1057 of 1715 🔗

Maybe best to try the verbal rational approach first … 🙂

120096 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 1, #1058 of 1715 🔗

Words of 2 syllables rather than 4 might be easier for them to grasp.

120192 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to bluemoon, 2, #1059 of 1715 🔗

“Did she say dystopia? Better get more toilet paper…”

120097 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Andrew, 11, #1060 of 1715 🔗

Me and Mr TT were in town this morning. Mr TT has to stop frequently as he has a long-term autoimmune condition. He sat down beside another man and they got talking. A working-class, fellow sceptic, he has also come to this conclusion too. As he said, so many of the population are engrossed in the latest events of Love Island, and are too poorly educated to understand what is going on around them. It is too late for me and Mr TT, but we are terrified of what lies ahead for our sons. Agree with Barney’s post – we are heading for either mass starvation and death or fascism, all for want of spineless and useless government being manipulated on the one hand by globalist money bags and on the other by neo-Marxists who they are in bed with. Someone on the Telegraph likened Boris to Mussolini. I had only just said to Mr TT he was more like Hitler than Churchill. Time will tell, but it is not looking too good!

120117 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #1061 of 1715 🔗

My husband and I are mid-50s and not nearly done living, but we’ve had a great run. Like you, I worry for my kids. I just wish they were as concerned about themselves as I am about them! I do get it — they just want to go to school, live their lives, see their friends, go on dates, etc., and they’re going to put up with the masks and crap in order to get on with it. I don’t know if young people have the experience and foresight to see where this could be headed. They’ll say, “I agree with you mom, but…” I will continue to fight for them, but it’s disheartening that we’re still a small minority.

120141 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1062 of 1715 🔗

My younger son is very much on the case – he has always had a ‘sixth sense’ that is very unusual, especially for a boy (other parents have commented as such too). Elder son is slightly more biddable, although he gets it eventually (he is moderately autism spectrum). They are both gifted linguists and have started to learn Swedish!

120179 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #1063 of 1715 🔗

Frankly, it’s up to the kids. It’s their future.

120224 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1064 of 1715 🔗

Mid 50s? That’s not old FGS! Mid 50s is the new 40s!

120336 ▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1065 of 1715 🔗

Mr H and I are the same, mid 50s, had a good life – holidays, friends, parties, nights out seeing bands, cinema, theatre, restaurants, days out wherever and whenever we felt like it, over the course of our 36 years together. It all seems a long time ago now. It breaks my heart to now see my family’s and friend’s kids and teenagers trapped at home, unable to go to school or uni normally, unable to socialise with their friends normally, denied all the freedoms us old gits took for granted. And now THEY’RE being blamed for the rise in CASES? Even more sad is how some blithely don face masks, looking absolutely terrified or proud to wear them because they are suddenly deemed “fashionable.” They seem totally unaware where this going. Where is the anarchy, the tribes? Or has it all been infiltrated by the woke brigade, swallowing up and destroying any free speech and individualism…and fight?!

120411 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to HelenaHancart, 2, #1066 of 1715 🔗

I chose not to have children as I didn’t like the way the world was going and that was 30 years ago. I’m so glad I didn’t because THEY my have had children and I would feel sick at the thought of what world and what country my grandchildren would be inheriting.

120442 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lili, #1067 of 1715 🔗

Maybe your kids and grandkids would have been the John Connors we need …

120080 Cecil B, 5, #1068 of 1715 🔗

The dictator is hoist by his own petard. To stay popular using the minimum of effort he promised the plebs immortality

The plebs were pleased by this, again for no effort they were gifted eternal life

One day, don’t know when, some mischievous person might unlock the asylum, or the asylum will fall down because there is no-one left to maintain it

Then they have to venture out and face reality

120081 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #1069 of 1715 🔗

Talking to one of our more simple-minded members, it is clear that we are doomed. The attitude is that a dumb, toy model is better than no model at all. Doing ‘something’, even if it is in response to the toy model is better than letting nature take its course – despite humanity having survived this kind of thing previously. Worst of all, that people who are clearly learning on the job – and not very well – should be given ultimate control of all our lives. If they say “Lock down!” we do as they say; if they say “Vaccinate!”, we vaccinate. They will never stop.

These people are not philosophers, and not even scientists; they are technicians . Nothing more.

I think this really is it: we are heading for either mass starvation and death, or fascism. Maybe no one actively wants that (no shadowy people waiting in the wings), but we will end up with it because it is the unavoidable result of handing control of the world to dim-witted technicians.

120125 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1070 of 1715 🔗

Have to agree. I’ve seen this countless times. “Your hypothesis is wrong” – response: ‘Well unless you have an alternative then it will have to do”

No. No and again NO! The default alternative is the Null Hypothesis i.e. we don’t know. When you don’t know you think more about contingency than prediction. Do we have enough to survive? In the absolute worst-case no you won’t survive anything. But in most cases survival means doing what you currently do with no or only small variations.

And we already could see this. What is paramount is that you measure the thing you are supposed to measure, which means no exagerrating or conflating results. You err on the side of caution and take notes. This means we don’t run the risk of false positives and hence destructive action in relation to this.

When in this situation there is much more chance of you doing something wrong and causing catastrophe than riding it out and trusting the inherent qualities of the system.

As a physicist and engineer it took me a long long time and a lot of humbling scenarios to find this out.

120146 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Barney McGrew, -2, #1071 of 1715 🔗

You’ll be relieved to learn that “Do nothing” is always an option on the brief sent up to the minister. Fortunately for the scientists, somebody has done the experiment. Manaus in Brazil and Guayaquil in Ecuador were both pretty much do-nothing cities. The infection rate for Manaus was around 20% and for Guayaquil around 33%. In each city, about 1% of those infected, died. In each city, the healthcare system collapsed. Scaling that to London, that means around 2million cases, 20,000 deaths, with the peak being around 40,000 cases, 1500 hospital admissions and 400 deaths a day for a couple of weeks in London alone, with similar figures in other big cities. That’s a collapse of the healthcare system in London at least. You’re entitled to say that you would prefer that to our present situation, of course.

120163 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 7, #1072 of 1715 🔗

In effect – nothing useful was done in the UK, beyond the original reasonably sensible measures.

Lockdown was irrelevant; masks have no ascertainable effect.

… and the virus helped by being not very serious.

Everything else is just political posturing.

120171 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 9, #1073 of 1715 🔗

Infections peaked before lockdown.Even Whitty has admitted that,so when you throw in the deaths caused by the lockdown itself you would have been better off doing nothing.

120222 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, #1074 of 1715 🔗

So the figures for Manaus are 3300 attributed as Covid deaths in a population of 1.8 million people. There was a large reduction in deaths recently with watchers believing that herd immunity has been reached.

This is in a town that has much higher rates of poverty than here and has other diseases associated with living in a rainforest. So lets assume that this is applicable to the UK directly –

3330 applied to the UK with roughy 67 million is 67 /1.8 * 3300 ~ 123000 people doing nothing.

For Sweden the do nothing approach for 10.3 million people is around 18800 deaths.

Sweden’s light approach resulted in around 5800 deaths and now some of those are believed to have been misattributed.

So for the UK, 123000 in a do nothing approach is a serious death toll but still within the bounds of variance. It’s high so maybe we do something like take care of the elderly more and watch for crowded places. More hygiene but nothing stupid.

We currently have 40000+, in some cases it’s been said to be 50000.

By doing a full lockdown and other measures we have reduced the possible toll if using Manaus by half. Sweden reduced than by 4 doing a light lockdown.

What does that tell us?

It tells us that there is something up about the figures who have died due to Covid first and foremost. Secondly how many people die of the flu in Manaus per year. Was there a significant uplift or is this just a case of people not knowing their city statistics. We could go on an on but using Manaus is not exactly the best example if compared to us or Sweden

120289 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to mhcp, 2, #1075 of 1715 🔗

It’s neither true to say that the Manaus “do nothing” scenario resembles a London “do nothing” scenario nor that the Sweden model was a “do nothing” scenario.

In reality, there was always going to be a social distancing, wash your hands, avoid traveling to work, avoid congregating campaign in the UK (as we did before lockdown and as happened also in Sweden). Also in reality, Manaus is too densely populated, has too much multiple-occupancy, multi-generational housing, too little sanitation, too little infrastructure and insufficient access to media (for public health campaigns) for that to have worked.

To draw comparisons between a counterfactual London where lockdown didn’t happen and Sweden is reasonable, but to claim Sweden did nothing isn’t.

I don’t think you can compare London with Manaus just because of the huge differences in state of development.

I’m nonetheless not sure that I wouldn’t prefer the short, sharp shock of the Manaus result to the living death that we’ve ended up with in London.

120328 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to matt, #1076 of 1715 🔗

I agree that “do-nothing” was never going to be literally true, since people would undoubtedly have taken informal precautions such as hand-washing, and people in London have the privilege of fresh clean water on tap to do that effectively. But the Manaus and Guayaquil figures lead me to believe that even a first-world health care system would have collapsed under the sheer volume of cases. Maybe 10% of cases need serious hospital treatment, often for days, and there would have been about 30,000 places for them nationally. We could have coped with about 3000 cases a day coming into hospital, suggesting we could have coped with 30,000 cases a day in the population. Anything like the Manaus and Guayaquil figures would have peaked well over that, at 2million cases spread out over about 16. weeks.

120358 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, #1077 of 1715 🔗

Adding this as a placeholder to say that I will come back on this, because I need to go and cook for my kids now and (especially following my comments yesterday) I don’t want to be seen to ignore it!

120589 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ FatBastardMcKenzie, replying to matt, 1, #1078 of 1715 🔗

Hi Matt, Richard, Tim, mhcp, et al,

Interesting article on the problems with coding models from 2014.

When All Models Are Wrong

“More stringent quality criteria are needed for models used at the science/policy interface, and here is a checklist to aid in the responsible development and use of models.”

George E. P. Box’s 1987 observation (is) that “all models are wrong but some are useful.”

120369 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #1079 of 1715 🔗

It’s not a ‘privilege’ to have fresh water on tap, it has been pouring with rain, as it does most days in this country…….

120472 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, #1080 of 1715 🔗

Well, I suppose it’s up to you whether you take for granted things that other people have worked hard to make sure you can have without thinking.

120984 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #1081 of 1715 🔗

The rain?

120556 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #1082 of 1715 🔗

Children fed and (nominally) in bed.

The UK government at no point showed any indication that they planned to do nothing. Nor, by the way, did the British public (in London at least). I was in the City for 6 of the 10 working days before lockdown was imposed. It was noticeable that, with every passing day, it became emptier. The government ran a campaign of wash your hands more often, work from home if you can, keep your distance and people paid attention – but, more noticeably, it was absolutely noticeable that people anticipated the government advice. Even if the government had elected to do nothing, the populace would have done something.

The effects of this are shown by the fact that a Bristol University study has demonstrated that infection rates were falling before the imposition of lockdown. Chris Whitty has also stated this in front of a parliamentary committee (and was, by the way, explaining the words of Patrick Vallance at the time, so we can assume that both of them agree). The fact that it took a study to work out what many of us had established weeks before – that, of the peak of deaths occurred on 8th April, then the peak of infections must necessarily have occurred before 23rd March – is slightly irritating, but is an aside.

So, we should be able to take as a given, surely, that zero response to the threat of the virus is not a reasonable counterfactual.

I would assume that something to a degree similar would apply to Manaus. I think it’s unlikely that the public had no idea what was coming and – although I suspect that access to mass media must be lower than it is here – there must have been some government messaging (not sure. Bolsonaro ploughs his own furlough, rather).

Much of Manaus consists of overcrowded slums that suffer from poor sanitation and contain multi-generational households living cheek by jowl. For obvious reasons (poor surface and hand hygiene, likelihood of higher viral load, overall poorer health of the population);you would expect both a higher infection rate and a higher fatality rate. I would be very interested to see some numbers around the outcomes in the wealthier areas of Manaus – but I don’t imagine they’re separately available. I would also assume that 1) antigen testing was less available than it is here and 2) antibody testing is probably both less available and no more reliable than it is here.

Both the apparent 33% herd immunity figure and the apparent 0.8%-0.1% IFR are very interesting but I wouldn’t be inclined to extrapolate from them and apply the numbers to a Western European nation.

Sweden maintained the advisory nature of its measures (apart from limiting the size of crowds) throughout, but I also wouldn’t be inclined to take the Swedish numbers and apply them directly to assume the same outcome in an “advisory only” UK, because there are factors that differentiate – cultural, demographic, geographic. But it’s easy to exaggerate the differences and on balance, it’s an imperfect, but closer parallel.

I don’t think we will ever be in a position to demonstrate conclusively that lockdown didn’t “work” in terms purely of the spread of the virus. Logically, limiting human contact must limit or slow transmission. However, regardless of how good the maths might have been and regardless or how outlier scenarios like Manaus may justify some of the inputs, it is still impossible to credit models that returned hundreds of thousands of deaths given the benefit of hindsight and it is still very hard to believe that they shouldn’t have been at least robustly challenged in the moment.

120461 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to matt, #1083 of 1715 🔗

That’s not my point. My point is you need to always be conservative and make sure you are measuring the thing you are supposed to measure.

The deaths in Manaus could be from many things including how people react to what they think is Covid. Same here.

You aren’t seeing the actual data so trying to state that Ferguson’s guess was good at the start is typical modelling wank. And it’s not borne out by reality.

We could have simply worked out how much contingency did we need, kept society open, measured properly and you know been professional about it

120477 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #1084 of 1715 🔗

I think what you’re saying here can be summarised as all models are wrong, and if they’re right then they’re still wrong.

120994 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #1085 of 1715 🔗

Of course they’re wrong.

‘All models are wrong, but some are useful’

The quotation comes from George Box, one of the great statistical minds of the 20th century.

120244 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #1086 of 1715 🔗

You’re repeating Ferguson’s mistake. The IFR is 0.1% not 1.0% That equates to 2,000 deaths. Check Stockholm’s numbers.

120296 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Nick Rose, #1087 of 1715 🔗

Ferguson was using the best figures available in February, of course. The Manaus and Guayaquil figures show IFR in the range 0.8%-1%. These are from a near enough to “do nothing” scenario. New York City shows IFR has to be at least 0.25%, and that assuming 100% infection. If we take 25% for infections, then that’s 1.0% again. Granted, these are all densely populated urban areas.

120309 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #1088 of 1715 🔗

While it is true that Ferguson had limited data, Levitt’s model used the same available starting data to produce a very different result and it is Levitt’s numbers that have proved to be the more accurate in most countries.

Again – Manaus is a legitimately interesting “worst case scenario”, given the density of the population etc. It is also very interesting from the point of view of the worst case scenario herd immunity. It is not, however, a good indicator of the process of the disease in a first world country.

While Ferguson may be a superb mathematician, one wonders exactly how many times his domesday predictions will need to be found laughably overblown before people stop listening to him.

120316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to matt, #1089 of 1715 🔗

There’s an interesting interview on Unherd in which Prof. Levitt, very sportingly, discusses all the things he got wrong.

120327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #1090 of 1715 🔗

Yes, it’s very good.

To be clear, I don’t think he’s a prophet – he’s not been spot on throughout and some things that he’s said have turned out to be wrong. However, as I say, using the same available data and a good deal of observation, he got closer to reality than did Ferguson and he has used what platform he has to argue for proportionality of response – which is the thing that has been lacking everywhere, throughout (for clarification, “do absolutely nothing” was also not a proportional response in my opinion).

I think that the last 6 months have exposed the fact that mathematical modelling of any scenario can only ever inform public policy and must never dictate it. Ferguson’s crime (and I do think it was criminal) was to encourage the media to make his model widely publicised, when it should have been presented as one of a wide range of possible scenarios.

120524 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to matt, #1091 of 1715 🔗

mathematical modelling of any scenario can only ever inform public policy and must never dictate it

I’ve no quarrel with that. Advisers, scientific or otherwise, advise, and ministers decide. I admit to a certain apprehension that “the science”, or the scientific advisers, are being set up to take the blame for anything that goes wrong …

120370 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #1092 of 1715 🔗

There weren’t any ‘best’ figures available in February. The Chinese case definition changed seven times….

He just stuck a finger in the air……

To the rest of us……..

120480 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, #1093 of 1715 🔗

Perhaps you didn’t look at the SAGE papers on the subject. They did their best to reconcile the conflicting data.

121006 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #1094 of 1715 🔗

‘…….did their best’

The motto of the good intentions paving company.

Perhaps you, and they, didn’t look at the remarks of a leading Coronavirus expert, Prof John Nicholls, University of Hong Kong 06 February:

So the 20,000 cases in China is probably only the severe cases; the folks that actually went to the hospital and got tested. The Chinese healthcare system is very overwhelmed with all the tests going through. So my thinking is this is actually not as severe a disease as is being suggested. The fatality rate is probably only 0.8%-1%. There’s a vast underreporting of cases in China. Compared to Sars and Mers we are talking about a coronavirus that has a mortality rate of 8 to 10 times less deadly to Sars to Mers. So a correct comparison is not Sars or Mers but a severe cold. Basically this is a severe form of the cold.’

120376 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #1095 of 1715 🔗

Very interesting the higher death rate in Ecuador and parts of Brazil. Peru has also a high death rate. These are areas with Indian population and one might wonder if they are more susceptible to coronavirus. There are also remarkable contrasts. Haiti ,African origin, no SD, no lockdown C-19 sweeping through without much loss of life. Pakistan the same remarkable figures with low death rate and no SD. Many places 25% sero positive. The same in Bangladesh, and although India is at the top of the peak, death per million is very low. Africa, Nigeria and Kenya C-19 just went through without SD and 25-30% seropositivity with remarkable low death rate. These are countries with worse health system than Brazil and Peru.
The high death rate in South American Andean region is puzzling but contrast this with Argentina and Uruguay with low death rate. Then Mexico, and Central American countries (with exception of Costa Rica which has an excellent health care system) with high death rates also Indian connection. There must be some form of population susceptibility according to ethnicity or race, if one is allowed to use that expression

120399 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #1096 of 1715 🔗

The only thing it would be a relief to hear would be that all Ministers have been sacked…..

For not taking the (more usually than not excellent) ‘Do nothing’ option…….

120087 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 4, #1097 of 1715 🔗

The really sad part of this is that people are still laughing at David Icke.

120110 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Andrew, 7, #1098 of 1715 🔗

I’m Canadian and had no clue who he was, so when I listened to his mid-March interview (months after the fact) with Brian Rose on London Real I was a blank slate. The interview was before the lockdown and what he said came true pretty much to the letter. I’ve listened to all his interviews on London Real and, while I may not agree with some of what he says, he certainly doesn’t sound like a crackpot to me. I suppose if the mid-March interview had happened a few months earlier you might have taken him for a conspiracy theorist, but look where we are! I’d say the same about James Corbett (The Corbett Report) — had I listened to some of his stuff a year ago I’d have thought he was nuts.

120118 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #1099 of 1715 🔗

Have to agree. Neither of them will say they are the gospel. They’ll insist you check their assessment yourself.

The Brian Rose interviews keep to a very tight line in terms of where Icke can go, I think that was intentional.

120175 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Andrew, 2, #1100 of 1715 🔗

Well yeah. I don’t want to be associated with a 5g conspiracy theorist.

120264 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Caramel, 3, #1101 of 1715 🔗

My wife has electromagnetic hypersensitivity so done lots of research over the past 10 years finding out what was wrong with her..

I’ve looked at EMFs and 5G amongst other things.

It’s not a conspiracy theory as such but it certainly has not been proved safe as there have been no studies done to prove it is safe and this has been state din Senate/Congress hearings by the 5G telecoms people last year and Sweden also banned it until the mobile companies can prove it’s safe – sounds much like masks doesn’t it.

120629 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Andrew, -1, #1102 of 1715 🔗

I’m not laughing at him i’m laughing at the fools so deluded they think Icke is saying something. Come on bro the dude is a BBC employee doing his best to destroy alternative views with his sci-fi bullshit.

120088 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1103 of 1715 🔗

BBC article about new lockdowns in Bolton. Caption on picture:

 Demand at local coronavirus testing sites in Bolton has led to queues of people and cars

Well then, what did you expect..?

120174 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1104 of 1715 🔗

All those cases … head cases are they?

120188 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #1105 of 1715 🔗

You get your test, even though you are healthy. Positive? Congrats you just contributed to local lockdown. Negative? So what, you could catch ‘it’ tomorrow…
But thanks for the DNA sample.

120900 ▶▶ DontPayForGovtMistakes, replying to Barney McGrew, #1106 of 1715 🔗

I cannot imagine a more foolish thing for people to do. I would have thought people have enough rational self-interest not to condemn themselevs and their area to a lockdown for a gain only of hearing a test result which won’t be of any ability to further reduce the already low probability of a case, should they have one, being serious to an even lower probability of severe symptoms.

120089 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #1107 of 1715 🔗

Government Open Consultation re COVID-19 Vaccine ACT NOW to have Your Say 18th September Deadline
On the 26th September it will be 6 months since the Coronavirus Act 2020 was originally formed.

This was a 324-page piece of legislation which was given only one day of evaluation and debate before being passed as law. It has since been the basis for over 600 changes to legislation, many removing the much-needed protection for the vulnerable, especially the elderly, children in care and those experiencing poverty. Some of whom may be our clients, family and friends.

The Government have now issued an open consultation enabling UK residents to express their views on the proposed changes to the Human Medicine Regulations relating to the distribution of a COVID-19 vaccine and the expansion of the existing flu vaccine programme in the UK. The deadline to contribute is Friday 18th September. Whatever your view may be, it is important that you are heard and contribute now. The link to the consultation can be found here.

Over the last few months, there have worldwide protests concerning the breach of human rights imposed by the ongoing restrictions of lockdown and the need for transparency and freedom of choice with regard to healthcare and vaccinations. The ANP attended Health Freedom and Unite for Freedom events in Dublin and London on the 22nd and 29th of August respectively.

In London, over 10,000 people turned out on the day gathering in Trafalgar Square. A range of views and opinions were expressed. Both events were covered by major news titles, with fairly limited and biased reporting.

These events followed similar protests in Berlin, where over 38,000 people took to the streets to speak out against the infringement of basic human rights and freedom that are part of Germany’s constitution.

There have been several announcements regarding a call to ban protests in London due to the recent upsurge; it is even more important than ever that we express our views through official channels where possible and contribute to the Government’s open consultation.

For more information on the protests and a link to excerpts from a 31-page Affidavit of Dr. Judy A. Mikovits Regarding Sars-Cov-2 regarding the safety and effectiveness of face masks ; click on the links.

Health Freedom Ireland released a press release giving a truthful depiction with references to what happened on the day in Dublin, and you can see it here: Also here is one of the few articles taking a critical look at media coverage of the event

120091 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, #1108 of 1715 🔗

Some coverage of the event in Dublin and London below.

120092 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #1109 of 1715 🔗

I know that Ludlow has had some bad reports from fellow sceptics lately but we went there this morning and apart from 1 pratt who almost climbed over a wall to “social distance” from us, it was fine albeit a little quiet.
Then around midday the college kids had their lunch break and did what normal teenagers do; sat together, hugged and snogged one another and joyfully ignored “official guidelines”
Perhaps the long awaited revolt against this stupid situation will begin in the tory “shires”

120169 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1110 of 1715 🔗

Ludlow is, or was, a lovely town. I would like to think that its young people are living free.

120200 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to annie, 2, #1111 of 1715 🔗

Ludlow would be a place I could move to, should we decide to up sticks.

120258 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Bella Donna, #1112 of 1715 🔗

I can recommend Bewdley just over the border in Worcestershire as well.
And cheaper.

120283 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1113 of 1715 🔗

And on the Severn Valley Railway.

120291 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Edward, #1114 of 1715 🔗

ABSOLUTELY.
And the West Midlands safari park if you like that sort of thing.

120261 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1115 of 1715 🔗

Certainly sounds better than the experience at the market on Saturday.

That was miserable.

Still no reply from the local council to my e-mail on the legal implications of the “no mask no service” signs or their pro-BLM and white privellege comments on the town council’s website.

120288 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Awkward Git, #1116 of 1715 🔗

We are talking about Ludlow here, a town who tried to stop Pizzahut opening a restaurant in the town because they wanted to put up signs outside their premises which would not be “suitable for a town like Ludlow”
Pizzahut won but “Irony of Ironies” had to close because of the effects of the lockdown.

120280 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1117 of 1715 🔗

I visited Ludlow about 15 years ago, mainly for the castle, and its reputation for food – I bought a delicious pork pie!

120300 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Edward, #1118 of 1715 🔗

The food is still just as good.

120445 ▶▶ Graham, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1119 of 1715 🔗

I live near Ludlow. It’s been quite a depressing experience seeing the change from the buzzing town of last year to this gloomy quiet place. I used to be annoyed by the number of tourists but I certainly miss them. I managed to screw up my courage to take down a few signs but I’m still working up to the big one, where I run amok and cut down all the damned red two-metre signs that disfigure the place (disguised and – for warlike purposes only – masked) then scarper to my car (parked well away from the centre, and not in view of any cameras) discarding disguise as I go, possibly turning my jacket inside out to change its look entirely like Tom Cruise in one of the Mission Impossible films. A man can dream.

120095 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1120 of 1715 🔗

A very patronising article in the Spectator:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/are-we-really-seeing-a-second-european-spike-

Apparently, if you think that cases are decoupled from deaths, you are a “headbanger”.

It might help if people like him used the term “case” correctly rather than creating a new definition specially for Covid.

120131 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1121 of 1715 🔗

An observation: the rise in deaths in France (if we believe they’re really Covid-positive deaths and not just a care home owner’s visual assessment) would be quite easily explained by the earlier ‘harvest’ of old people leading to a natural drop in deaths in the middle of the year, and an inevitable rise as more old people start coming through for natural demise, now. It could be entirely decoupled from the rise in “cases”. In the words of the author “ I can’t believe I’m having to say this…”.

120302 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Barney McGrew, #1122 of 1715 🔗

Well also that the official case count is an underestimate of the true number of infections by a factor of about 100, pretty much everywhere. So you can make a nice graph with two “waves” but the second wave only looks comparable to the first because the first is 1/100 the height it should be. This is all a complicated way of saying we’re doing more testing but the scale of the situation should not be underestimated.

120329 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1123 of 1715 🔗

nb. French citizens had to pay for their tests until late July when the government waived the fee. The amount of testing per day then started to sky-rocket, and explains most of the increase in positive ‘cases’ reported since then

120099 Basics, 5, #1124 of 1715 🔗

School days. We’ve all had ’em. Remember the lessons of history when we looked back at mediaeval days of plague. We learned how a rat in fine cloths had sailed across from Holland. Then the part that baffles me still the rat in a box found it’s way to Eyam in landlocked Derbyshire.

So, that is a foggy recapping from school days. What I do clearly remember was the humour that turned to pity as we learned about plague masks. How these silly mediaeval peasants did not know anything and had thought posies would stop the plague (they never told us what the plague was come to think).

Those stupid supersticious peasants are your neigbours in masks. There is no difference.

Other mediaeval peasants could think and do extraordinary things, the evidence for them is all around us too.

We were preconditioned at school for these days. Why more people haven’t realised as a child they laughed at futile, scared people wearing masks to fight an invisible supposed plague has been remarked on throughout.

While in primary history lesson it might be interesting to add that around 2005 graves of WW1 soldiers were dug out of the arctic permafrost by scientists. The purpose to resurect the Spainish Flu. It doesn’t sit well that permission was granted for such an invaision of resting place. Search for yourself but
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15020331-200-spanish-flus-frozen-secrets/

120101 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, #1125 of 1715 🔗

Governments top lawyer resigns

120103 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Cecil B, #1126 of 1715 🔗

Name? Link?

DavidC

120147 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1128 of 1715 🔗

Looks like he’s sick of government lying and deceit.

A pity that some aren’t pointing out the same sociopathy re. Covid.

120120 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cecil B, #1129 of 1715 🔗

Brexit related. I dont hold out much hope for an orderly and fully thought through final exit at the end of December. They may need us in lockdown as they try and sort out the food supply, plus other supply chain disruptions, along with the inevitable floods. Going to be interesting in January if so.

120143 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to DressageRider, 1, #1130 of 1715 🔗

I voted leave, I was absolutely behind brexit, but now I really hope it’s put on the back burner.

120150 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to bluemoon, 4, #1131 of 1715 🔗

I voted Remain – but that’s beside the point.

The unreliable joke that this country has become hurts everyone.

120160 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to RickH, 4, #1132 of 1715 🔗

I voted Remain too, as did all my friends who are against the lockdown. But I actually feel less positive about the EU since this farce began. I think we should aim for a tide-over deal and things can be amended as we go along, because it’s in all EU countries’ interests as well as ours to do it. But leaving is nothing like the threat of the loss of our rights and way of life that have resulted in the almost global response to this virus. If I were younger I would try to move to Sweden. As it is, I have nothing to offer them.

120195 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to bluemoon, 6, #1133 of 1715 🔗

No thanks we’ve waited 4 years for Brexit it must happen now!

120236 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1134 of 1715 🔗

Should have been enacted on 24th June 2016. Hey ho.

120615 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to bluemoon, #1135 of 1715 🔗

What a welcome reward for lockdown that would be, to give the bastards what they want on Brexit.

No, there is never a good time to put democracy on the back burner.

120210 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to DressageRider, 1, #1136 of 1715 🔗

My OH got a missive from the govt yesterday advising her employer to prepare for no-deal. Apparently the govt believed their own guff that it wouldn’t come to this, so the no-deal plans are about as good as the pandemic plans. One of the gaps includes no plans for how to handle import/export of electricity over the interconnect(s), so we may have power cuts to look forward to in January.

I wouldn’t put it past Johnson to use the corona-crisis as cover for a bungled brexit implementation.

120235 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, 1, #1137 of 1715 🔗

Strange, my company began planning for no deal back in 2016. Wtf has hers been doing since the referendum result??

120279 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, #1138 of 1715 🔗

Oh they have been planning, it was just a head’s up from the govt department they work with that they actually mean it might happen now.

120230 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DressageRider, 5, #1139 of 1715 🔗

Shouldn’t make any difference. They are still going to sell their stuff to us, those who buy our stuff will need time to resource if the tariffs are too much for them, we don’t have to put tariffs on anything if we don’t want to. Supply chains are not usually affected by tariffs, only the final product. There’s no such thing as no-deal by the way, WTO rules apply in the absence of anything else.

Contrary to what people seem to believe, the single market was never a level playing field, and there has never been a single market for financial services. And also, if the EU is looking for finance for its €700 billion rescue package, that can only come from the City of London. The US isn’t interested and the EU are wary of Chinese involvement.

I wouldn’t worry too much, if I were you.

120367 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, #1140 of 1715 🔗

I agree with that in principle. The problem in her case is she works in a heavily regulated industry (energy) and the govt hasn’t yet published details of exactly what regulations will apply from January 1, which is not very far away. e.g. will the UK still be part of the EU carbon trading scheme, or will there be a replacement UK scheme or just a flat tax. What are the nuts & bolts of what information will need to be reported to which regulators and when etc. It would be nice to know now, so that their business process can be adapted and contracts for trading next year can be finalised, especially since there are penalties for not following the (yet to be published) regulations.

Anyway, getting a bit off topic, but the point being my faith in the govt being able to execute a smooth brexit transition has been severly dented by their handling of the virus.

120585 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Cecil B, #1141 of 1715 🔗

Due to Brexit issue. Sadly.

120108 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 6, #1142 of 1715 🔗

Serious question: Do you believe that whichever government was in power this would be still happening?

120115 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Andrew, 4, #1143 of 1715 🔗

Hmm. The media would be more sympathetic to Labour, thus giving them breathing space to have gone for herd immunity..? On the other hand, many left wingers would absolutely love the possibilities for expansion of the state, and socialism.

120142 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #1144 of 1715 🔗

Oh, come on. The MSM ‘more sympathetic towards Labour’. ?

What planet are you living on that induces such one-eyed and distorted nonsense?

The MSM – to the last piece of bog-paper – was observably antagonistic to Corbyn, confecting a welter of fictions about him.

The data is there to illustrate the fact.

120162 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, 1, #1145 of 1715 🔗

Kuennsberg, Marr et al are noticeably continually hostile to eeeeeeeevil tories.
Ditto Beeboid scotland, the land of the sycophantic question

120203 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #1146 of 1715 🔗

The two you mention were never friendly to Labour. Both wee happy to perpetuate ‘antisemitism’ rubbish.

Meanwhile, the facts of Boris’s actual propensity for dishonesty got a relatively free pass.

The analysis of the media is there.

120463 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, 1, #1147 of 1715 🔗

Marr not friendly ro Labour.
Bwahhhaaaaaaahaaaaa

120252 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 2, #1148 of 1715 🔗

BBC and MSM were always pro New labour ,, but i agree they were never pro corbyn… to far from the new labour mould. That is why they favoured Cameron/Clegg .. because they were also New Labour. The New Labour ideal transcended politics of right and left .

120260 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #1149 of 1715 🔗

As pointed out to you repeatedly whenever you try to make this laughable claim that the BBC is not institutionally pro-Labour, the BBC hierarchy took a side in the Labour civil war between Corbyn and the Blairites. That doesn’t mean the BBC as an institution and the vast majority of its staff aren’t hugely biased in favour of Labour, to the left in general, and against the “Conservative” Party, and most certainly against anything remotely genuinely conservative or traditionalist, which they now routinely smear as “far right”.

Here is the reality, yet again, from the horse’s mouth.

Jeremy Paxman in 2017:

“If you asked me what the politics of most people at the BBC are I should say that most people voted Remain, that most people were Labour/Liberal Democrat. I should say that by and large they were liberal with a small l on social issues. I should say that they were people who detested certain kinds of right-wing behaviour…”

120278 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mark, 3, #1150 of 1715 🔗

So are most of the medical profession:

‘UK doctors are left-leaning and liberal in general, which is reflected in their opinions on topical health policy issues. Doctors in the UK voted differently from the general electorate in recent polls.’

https://jech.bmj.com/content/72/10/880

120266 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, 1, #1151 of 1715 🔗

So was most of the parliamentary labour party…….

120628 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, #1152 of 1715 🔗

this is where your delusion shines. The BBC is as woke as Bez on ten E’s. If you don’t understand this then you’re either lying or wilfully deluding yourself. Every single thing they do is so left wing Stalin is getting embarrassed

120127 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Andrew, 3, #1153 of 1715 🔗

Maybe if the Tories had been in opposition they would have opposed for the sake of it, but it seems doubtful given their lack of spine

Labour or Lib Dems would have done the same most probably. Maybe Corbyn would have been more bloody-minded than the PM. Most governments around the world have screwed this up.

120135 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Andrew, 2, #1154 of 1715 🔗

I sincerely doubt that Starmer would have done other than go along with the fake narrative – albeit with probably more coherence than Johnson is capable of.

All indications are that he is an establishment placeman. He has already sold out core aspects of the Labour Party, and has shown that his key allegiance is to the establishment and the security service’s agenda – as was the case with Blair.

Had Corbyn still been leader – I think that there might have been reluctance, but in the end, the same massive force would have come to bear on him, with the sort of propaganda operations that we have seen, and – although a much more principled individual, I doubt that he would have had the skills to resist, particularly given the known infiltration of the Labour Party by establishment shills (who Starmer has paid off in various ways).

The deep malice of the state apparatchiks against the population has been truly on display during the Covid period – but it’s not new.

120218 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, #1155 of 1715 🔗

P.S. When I say ‘it’s not new’, I mean that the subversion was happening at the time of the Wilson and Callaghan governments. An old friend of mine was a senior member of those governments – a serious political operator, but straight as a die within that context; never went to the Lords; never spilled the beans in a memoir.

He knew what the backroom was up to, however – to the point of members’ flats being broken into.

A few lies planted in propaganda sheets like the Groan are as nothing.

120267 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1156 of 1715 🔗

Where has Jeremy Corbyn given the slightest indication that he is not entirely and voluntarily on board with the coronapanic and with the Labour Party’s official line on it of “faster, deeper, harder”? I mean, you’d have thought that by now his own brother might have at least persuaded him to be a little equivocal on it, if he felt the slightest doubt.

If you can produce some evidence of questioning of the rush to panic by Corbyn from Feb/Mar/April, I’d be happy to reconsider – I prefer Corbyn over the Blairites in general, given a choice of lefties. At least he’s relatively honest in his foolishness. But without some reasonable evidence, it must be assumed to be just more of your wishful thinking, like your clear personal wish fulfillment fantasy expressed the other day that the coronapanic was “driven by the Brexit wing”!

You seem to desperately need for this all to be somehow all the fault of your worst political enemies.

120170 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Andrew, 1, #1157 of 1715 🔗

Good question. Yes. If by ‘this’ you mean endless lock up and disarming of rights, with no end in sight, etc. The Consevatives had the perception of being the only credible group able to govern. Certainly up until 2020 labour were not able to govern and there lies a catch in the supposition. The only change is the conservatives have shown they are not suutable to govern.

Lockdown orders are coming from a different place to the government. The pattern around the western world shows this in my opinion. Therefore yes it would be happening regardless.

120189 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Andrew, 5, #1158 of 1715 🔗

Not really the whole political class are charlatans and conmen. It would have happened no matter who was in office. The tragedy is originally Boris seemed to be on the right track but then it seemed as if his brain had turned to mush, he was suddenly a different person.

120215 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andrew, 1, #1159 of 1715 🔗

In fairness, something like. I suspect everybody was panicking, which is why none of them stepped up to offer any real leadership. Of any political colour. Also the reason they’ve kept their heads down since. And it was the same in the MSM, they were all almost literally soiling themselves.

120294 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Andrew, #1160 of 1715 🔗

Yes. I dislike the thugs in No 10 as much as anyone and did not vote for them but any other party would have been worse. It’s possible that different Tories would have handled it better but the Tory party now is what it is.

120323 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Andrew, #1161 of 1715 🔗

No doubt about it.

120112 Drawde927, 3, #1162 of 1715 🔗

Is that “WE WILL MOCK U” pub sign real or Photoshopped? Definitely hoping it’s the former 🙂

Surely inspired by this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaQijAMaiOQ

120113 Jane in France, replying to Jane in France, 9, #1163 of 1715 🔗

Nicola Sturgeon is trumpeting the tragedy of three new covid19 deaths in Scotland. Is everybody in hospital in Scotland willy nilly tested these days for covid19? Were these people already ill with something else and happened to test positive for the dreaded virus? No details are forthcoming. I seem to remember there was a link a few days ago to the discrepancy in Scotland between number of new hospital admissions and number of people in hospital with covid19. One thing is clear, though. The house party with 300 guests in Mid Lothian on August 30th can’t be blamed for the three deaths yesterday.

120116 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Jane in France, 1, #1164 of 1715 🔗

George Galloway on good form today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzxix9GKmB8&start=604

“The SNP killed our grannies”

120128 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jane in France, #1165 of 1715 🔗

Go look see. These are Sturgeons figures, the ros figures are different again. https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

Notice the: * This figure includes people who are no longer being treated for COVID-19. This is being reviewed and will be replaced next week with a measure that focuses on hospital in-patients with a more recent positive COVID-19 test. Data for Saturday 5 September has been used for NHS Highland.

That refers to tge perpetual 250-60 cases that have remained in hospital statistically. 3 deaths could be serverly illl long term cases dying of something other than covid. 3 related covid deaths

120157 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Jane in France, 9, #1166 of 1715 🔗

And of course no death tally of the usual 1600 people that die in the UK everyday. It’s unbelievable how numerically illiterate people seem, as nothing is put into context or perspective regarding the normality of tens of deaths a day.

120198 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nsklent, 1, #1167 of 1715 🔗

You’re right : but some of it is wilful ignorance, since the actual, contextualized figures blow the official narrative out of the water.

120172 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Jane in France, 2, #1168 of 1715 🔗

Average of just under 5 road crash deaths every day, plus 70 serious injuries in Great Britain, based on 2019 figures.

120184 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1169 of 1715 🔗

Because you must remember no one ever died before Covid19 came on the scene!

120193 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1170 of 1715 🔗

Let’s ban all car travel for ministers in order to lower those figures!

120304 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RickH, #1171 of 1715 🔗

That’s for next year

120197 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Jane in France, 2, #1172 of 1715 🔗

I’m guessing that these 3 poor souls were likely to have been very elderly and / or suffering from other serious health conditions. If three healthy people had felt fine at breakfast then dropped dead from Covid by lunch time the bedwetters would have been all over it.

120290 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Jane in France, 6, #1173 of 1715 🔗

A few deaths is actually reassuring confirmation that the virus is at an endemic equilibrium and has not been suppressed (and therefore will not come back).

There are two ways you can have only a few deaths a day. Either you’re at the very start (like NZ) or you’re at the end (the UK).

Its pretty obvious the UK is at the end of the curve but the official story is still that 94% of the population are still susceptible and the only reason the death rate isn’t 1000 per day (or more) is the mockdowns and masks. In other words we are teetering on the start of a second wave. This is arrant nonsense but still the more evidence against it the better.

120301 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to guy153, #1174 of 1715 🔗

That’s re-assuring

120342 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Jane in France, 3, #1175 of 1715 🔗

Well if three people have died let us shut down society, bankrupt business and lock everyone in their house forever. I mean three people have died, i’m devastated. I don’t know them and don’t give a fuck about them in any way but god damn they’ve died so everyone must give up their lives, who knows but three more people might die tomorrow. I won’t be able to cope with such tiny numbers of people dying. With figures like these it certainly puts into perspective the numbers of dead at the Somme and the innocent dead people in Nazi death camps. We should stop Remembrance Sunday (it’s probably racist anyway, someone ask Lewis Hamilton he knows all about it) and forget about the Holocaust these things just can’t compete with the horrors of the three dead covid victims

120155 NappyFace, replying to NappyFace, 7, #1176 of 1715 🔗

Hancock has a first from Oxford in PPE and a masters in economics. Yet when I see him talk he looks clueless?

Thoughts?

120161 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to NappyFace, 7, #1177 of 1715 🔗

Masters in Economics… HAHAHA Master of Economic Destruction more likely

120166 ▶▶ Julian, replying to NappyFace, 5, #1178 of 1715 🔗

Drunk on his own power.

Intelligence is no guarantee of good judgement.

120167 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to NappyFace, 6, #1179 of 1715 🔗

He’s a bit too adept at fear mongering. Very good at what he does unfortunately. Let’s be honest, facemasks, local lockdowns etc are all pure theatre and he has sold it to the masses

120177 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to NappyFace, 2, #1180 of 1715 🔗

Then why is he so thick?

120191 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NappyFace, 7, #1181 of 1715 🔗

It’s a PPE degree. A sort of Hairdressing degree for the aspiring middle class.

Other aspect – you can have a Masters and still be pretty slow at real world stuff.

120232 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to RickH, 4, #1182 of 1715 🔗

When I was at university firsts were as rare as hen’s teeth – a 2.1 was considered a good result. Now more than a quarter of students get a first, but obviously kids are more intelligent now. We’ve just seen record GCSE pass rates from school pupils who missed half the academic year and didn’t sit any exams.

120196 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NappyFace, 5, #1183 of 1715 🔗

It’s one those “a-degree-any-degree-so-long-as-it’s-a-degree” things. Shame the philosophy part probably doesn’t include Voltaire, because then he might have learned all about Admiral Byng, “pour encourager les autres”.

120204 ▶▶ matt, replying to NappyFace, 2, #1184 of 1715 🔗

That’s Oxonians for you.

120308 ▶▶ anon, replying to NappyFace, 2, #1185 of 1715 🔗

ppe is easy entry into oxford for public school boys on recommendations from public school tutors. candidates can get very low grade offers ….to ‘secure’ them

this was the case not that long ago at least

ppe graduates who take this route are often primed for ‘intel’ or mps (and the tutor at the public school usually knows this and acts accordingly in their ‘recommendations’)

intel can mean mp too through this path

120158 hotrod, replying to hotrod, #1186 of 1715 🔗

Cases lower around 2400 today.

However deaths seem higher yet lower from NHS England.

30 v 8.

Which is correct?

120181 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to hotrod, 5, #1187 of 1715 🔗

The mini-spike of 30 only appears in the “deaths by date reported”. There is no such spike in the “deaths by date of death”.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths

120186 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to nowhereman, 1, #1188 of 1715 🔗

Exactly. CEBM data reporting makes this clear.

120190 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to RickH, #1189 of 1715 🔗

Do you have a link to that?

Would this suggest the 30 were backlogs deaths that have all come through together?

Either way this is someone’s life and that does need to be noted 🙁

120228 ▶▶▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to hotrod, 1, #1190 of 1715 🔗

Backlog, or deliberately held back??

120439 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to nowhereman, #1191 of 1715 🔗

Cases a bit lower today – quick, add some deaths or people will stop being so worried.

120231 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, #1192 of 1715 🔗
120240 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, 7, #1193 of 1715 🔗

You’re right about them being ‘someone’s deaths’ – bit so are the other one and a half thousand per day (roughly). Death is a consequence of life – and I for one don’t want Life to stop because I die.

The unrealistic fragility of so many at the merest thought of death is – frankly -pathetic.

120277 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to nowhereman, #1194 of 1715 🔗

Deaths in the community are calculated somewhat haphazardly – this looks like a catch up.

120211 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to hotrod, 3, #1195 of 1715 🔗

The data is being manipulated and altered. Scotland had 3 deaths, having not had this many on a single day since end June. They must think we are stupid!

120245 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to hotrod, 3, #1196 of 1715 🔗

2400 can’t be right because Professor Jphn Edmunds (of Sage) said cases were increasing exponentially but 3000 to 2400 is a drop.

120248 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to arfurmo, #1197 of 1715 🔗

Any increase is exponential until it’s not.

120168 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 14, #1198 of 1715 🔗

Just a thought:
Jonathan Swift would have had a field day: In ‘Lockdownland’ people quaked in their boots fearing an illness that was mostly harmless, as they stepped over the bodies of those who perished from no treatment to illnesses and conditions that were actually dangerous. Madness. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so destructive

120249 ▶▶ Philip F, replying to Geraint, 3, #1199 of 1715 🔗

Yes, I thought of Swift recently too when I saw a story about government funding for some ridiculous scam.. I mean scheme. Can’t remember exactly, something like a tap that kills Covid as the water flows out – actually, that sounds fairly sensible so couldn’t be that. Anyway, it reminded me of the device for “extracting sunbeams out of cucumbers”, which is pretty much where your tax dollars go these days, folks.

120202 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1201 of 1715 🔗

The libtards will not like that. He’s spot on though.

120209 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Andrew, 11, #1202 of 1715 🔗

Looks like he’s entering the fray. Could do with a few more tbh. Every credit for Denise Welch speaking up as it looks like she’s got the ball rolling.

120313 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1203 of 1715 🔗

Is Liam Gallagher going to be next?

120326 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Basics, #1204 of 1715 🔗

Seemed on the sceptical side of the fence judging from some comments he recently made on twitter.

120314 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1205 of 1715 🔗

Richard Madeley wrote skeptically in the express a day or so ago.

120312 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Andrew, 1, #1206 of 1715 🔗

He’s getting an awful lot of stick as well

120391 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to Bella, 1, #1207 of 1715 🔗

I’m sure he can handle it.

120206 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1208 of 1715 🔗

Well done browny

120221 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1209 of 1715 🔗

Short, sweet, and factually correct!

120351 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1210 of 1715 🔗

Glad to see he’s not come out with some apology for the other day’s tweet and is sticking to it.

120392 ▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to dpj, #1211 of 1715 🔗

That was the test.

120547 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1212 of 1715 🔗

Great quote

120212 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 20, #1213 of 1715 🔗

Don’t politicians at every level, and of every persuasion, talk utter bollocks? Look at this from some dumbass in Bolton (The Telegraph live feed):

Extra measures in place in Bolton as virus is ‘moving round borough uncontrolled’

New measures introduced at hospitality venues in Bolton are needed to halt the transmission of Covid-19 which is “moving round uncontrolled”, a council leader has said.

The Government has ordered that restaurants, cafes, bars and pubs will be immediately restricted to takeaway only and all hospital [sic] venues will be required to close between 10pm and 5am.

A ban on mixing outside households in public outdoor settings will also be enforceable by law.

The majority of new coronavirus cases involved people aged 18 to 49.

The Conservative leader of Bolton Council, councillor David Greenhalgh, said: “This is not something we want to do but it is clear the virus is currently moving round the borough uncontrolled and so we need to halt the transmission rate.

This intelligent virus is moving around “uncontrolled”. Anyone would think it had legs – and could tell the time!

120241 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1214 of 1715 🔗

Pathetic numbskulls.

120281 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1215 of 1715 🔗

Think of some words you’ve been hearing lately, that you think sound good, then throw a few into a sentence: ‘transmission’, exponential’, ‘R’, ‘surge’, ‘dreadful’ etc. are good ones. Oooh, don’t forget ‘second wave’. Then pontificate away… you are a councillor!

120337 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sam Vimes, #1216 of 1715 🔗

Unprecedented, New Normal, Long term complications, Second Wave, Masks are about solidarity.

120408 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, #1217 of 1715 🔗

There’s another (female) Greenhalgh involved in this bollocks. A relative maybe ?

120214 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #1218 of 1715 🔗

In the strange backwater some call London there is a news outlet called the Evening Standard.

Headline this evening reads: ‘Number of Londoners dying from coronavirus drops to lowest number on record’

Whoops. Putting aside the weird London way of dying by coronavirus the report is getting across good news – at a time when the politicians and msm want much more bad news.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-coronavirus-death-rate-drop-a4542526.html

120268 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Basics, #1219 of 1715 🔗

I call that paper “the journal of the sneering metropolitan elite”. But it’s not all bad.

120284 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Basics, 2, #1220 of 1715 🔗

I think they realise they have to start pushing a more realistic message otherwise the overall chances of getting London out of the economic free fall are practically zero. People are starting to come back to the City but it’s for two days a week and three is probably a third of the old workforce never coming back. That probably means that a working population in March of 500,000 is less than 100,000 now on average and with zero overseas clients visiting. Play that out across Canary Wharf, Whitehall and the West End offices and the impact is enormous.

120324 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Richard, 1, #1221 of 1715 🔗

A big fall in Evening Standard circulation, so no advertising. They are preaching to empty stations.

120544 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard, #1222 of 1715 🔗

I don’t even think it’s that many at the moment.Been back a few days and it’s scary how much economic devastation has been caused.

120216 richard riewer, -1, #1223 of 1715 🔗

If there are any Yello fans here besides myself you will enjoy this interview with Dietef Meier and Boris Bland at the Ibiza IMS Festival in 2016.
There are a few ads but they last 4 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw60om4GgDM

120225 stefarm, 21, #1224 of 1715 🔗

I’ve been thinking about this scam and i’m going to call it a scam.

Majority of people are afraid to admit they have been had.

They’ve watched too many scare stories on watchdog and other shitty day time TV about poor Edna who lost her house and pension after telephone scammers insisted she buy this or that or enter a competition to win a guaranteed prize or silly old Janet who married a Spanish waiter or a pretend army marine who fleeced her out of her nest egg or poor old Eric down the pub who thought he had won the Nigerian lottery.

They all say ‘that would never happen to me, I’m far too sensible’

Some people are far too gullible, ‘but I saw it on the BBC’ ‘what, never, he’s our prime minister he wouldn’t do that’.

120226 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #1225 of 1715 🔗

Well I can perhaps shed some light on the recent rise. In my patch we suddenly had four positive cases . Where did this come from. ? All young teenagers recently returned from Croatia . Last week a lot of teenagers went to have PCR tests as they were going back to college . They had no symptoms but they had been partying hard . Seek and ye shall find ; they came back as + ve so no college this week for them .

Whether the infection was from last week or two months ago is unclear. This explains the young profile of the cases and also why the sudden rise last week.

120239 ▶▶ matt, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #1226 of 1715 🔗

This makes a lot of sense.

120303 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to matt, 1, #1227 of 1715 🔗

Yes agree. I know of others from Greece in the same situation.

120246 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Peter Thompson, #1228 of 1715 🔗

Peter, I was wondering if you can confirm something that’s been bothering me all afternoon.

If a GP was to check a young mans testicles these days would they still ask them to cough?

120257 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1229 of 1715 🔗

for those that assiduously wear mask i think the doctors should check if they have any

120335 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mjr, #1230 of 1715 🔗

Bing!

120233 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #1231 of 1715 🔗

I had my car MOT’d and serviced today. When we picked it up from the garage they had specially printed sign hanging from the rear view mirror stating all surfaces that had been touched by the mechanic had been sanitized. FGS!

120243 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #1232 of 1715 🔗

Different experience for me, garage had the obligatory signs up and flimsy perspex screen at the receptionist’s desk but no questions on “where’s your mask?”, no social distancing, other’s at another desk in a huddle, mo PPE on mechanics and so on.

If you ignored the signs and screen totally normal.

120250 ▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1233 of 1715 🔗

My mechanic scratched his bollocks then threw me the key.

120273 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Andrew, 3, #1234 of 1715 🔗

My mechanic today* scratched my bollocks and then threw me the keys.

Gave him a big tip!

*I have been to the garage to pick up my car today

120287 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Andrew, #1235 of 1715 🔗

means he likes you.

120274 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1236 of 1715 🔗

Haha. You should have asked if the oil filter and sump plug were sanitised.

120247 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #1237 of 1715 🔗

Prof Richard Ennos, University of Edinburgh – 8th Sept 2020 Utterly SHAMEFUL and DISRESPECTFUL treatment of a scientist. Wow. Shame on you BBC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g9NyDD4FWo

120276 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #1238 of 1715 🔗

Gobshite presenter who I’ve never heard of dropping names saying he “could get the first miniter on”, etc. Sums up the attitude of journalists at the haunted bbc towers. Disrepectful ****.

Prof Richard Ennos is employed by the same university as the devi. Richard is inexpressably courageous. It clearly matters to him, he speaks with such genuine passion. It must be exhausting for him to keep his emotions in check like he does.

120332 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #1239 of 1715 🔗

Good to hear another academic come through. Will be following him now

120388 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1240 of 1715 🔗

Typically arrogant and ignorant establishment figure making himself look an arse but completely unaware of it because he’s parroting “safe” establishment dogma, so he can’t possibly be wrong, can he? But in reality, in its appeal to authority and its insistence on the inherent truth of establishment opinion, his position is the very opposite of rational or scientific. He’s just too ignorant to understand it.

120400 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1241 of 1715 🔗

John Beattie – ex rugby international .. Clearly had his head stamped on too often in the scrum

120502 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1242 of 1715 🔗

Actually you know, I’ll take my words back and apologise to John Beattie (the interviewer). Having listened to the full niterview, I think his comment is not made in an abusive or particularly disrespectful manner, but rather in a tone of “putting to him” what others might say.

Actually, it’s a reasonable interview, and the academic, Prof Richard Ennos, was excellent.

Well worth a listen in full. For the next few weeks it’s available on BBC Sounds (if you have a licence-payer’s account to use, or aren’t bothered about that nonsense):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000mb1l

Interview with Prof Ennos begins at around 1:08:58.

120251 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 2, #1243 of 1715 🔗

Riverside’s “The Day After:

What if it’s not
If it’s not meant to be
What if someone
Has made a mistake
What we’ve become
There’s no turning back
Maybe it’s time
To say that out loud
Question marks are falling down
Crushing underneath our memories
As we stand and look around
The world that remained
On the walls we paint our dreams
Hiding in the fallout shelters
While The Gardens of Eden
Are burning above
What if it’s not
If it’s not meant to be
What if someone
Has made a mistake
What we’ve become
There’s no turning back
Maybe it’s time
To say that out loud

120356 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Fiat, 1, #1244 of 1715 🔗

Another song with eerily appropriate lyrics.
I heard a song by Orbital today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_txIsgwOxbo
with a spoken word sample:

This is what your descendants will know, a featureless, life-despising mess whose only message is that life is a prison.

And do you know what the price is you are paying for this sort of thing?

It’s actually from an 1980s TV program about architecture (the quote is referring to Brutalist buildings…)

120259 Silke David, 9, #1245 of 1715 🔗

Re the sign “do not wear you muzzle here”;

If someone says to me I am not considerate to others by not wearing mine, I will reply: you are not considerate to me and my anxiety, which was caused my mask wearing people.
So we have a stand off.

120262 Edward, replying to Edward, 7, #1246 of 1715 🔗

I enjoy reading people’s retail reports, though it’s difficult to draw any firm conclusions or spot definite trends. All I can really say is:
(a) Some shops, pubs, restaurants etc. provide a bad customer experience, others middling, a few good. Independent establishments can be in any category subject to the whims of the owner or manager. The same is also true of chains, depending on how their local staff interpret their instructions from head office. Waitrose get a lot of bad reports.
(b) Compliance with mask-wearing by customers remains disappointingly high.

Anyway here are my snippets from today.
(1) Picking up a prescription from the pharmacy within the doctors’ premises. When I was last there in June there was a ludicrous rigmarole with a corridor between two doors. I had to go out again while the assistant put the medication on a shelf, then when she had vacated the corridor I could go back in to pick it up. No such nonsense this time, straight in through the first door. I made a concession to face covering by doing my loose scarf thing. One pharmacy assistant barefaced, the other with a visor. Surgery receptionist barefaced behind a perspex screen (but that was the same before). They’ve done some internal remodelling so there’s now a door to the surgery waiting area, so I couldn’t see how many were waiting – probably none.
(2) Poundland, no door monitor, straight in, not bothering to display my exemption badge. Couldn’t find what I was looking for, asked a member of staff (a supervisor I think, unmasked) who pointed me to the right place, all very normal.
(3) A few more unmasked in the shops, mostly young, male and female both. Quite common to see a couple with only one masked. There may be a gradual realisation that very few £100 fines are being imposed, let alone £3200.

120265 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Edward, 2, #1247 of 1715 🔗

Shhh! It’ll encourage the ramping up of Scary Fairy stories.

120285 Mark, replying to Mark, 10, #1248 of 1715 🔗

Why anyone concerned about the shameless, manipulative big tech censorship we are seeing in operation more and more openly these days should be praying for a Trump victory. As far as big tech is concerned, the Democrats are in their pockets, and the last thing a Democrat regime will be doing is addressing this manipulation by their political allies, that benefits them politically.

Tucker: Why Silicon Valley is doing all it can to help the Biden-Harris ticket

120360 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 1, #1249 of 1715 🔗

Sorry – but a gold-spoon wanker like Trump is no answer to the corruption of US politics. He is part of it.

120382 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 2, #1250 of 1715 🔗

I understand that you don’t like his politics, and I’m not going to claim that he’s some kind of Platonic Ideal of a politician, but the fact is that we have a serious and fundamental problem here that the Democrats are happy to exploit and encourage because it serves their personal and political interests, and only putting the alternative in power offers any possibility of addressing it.

You might be too hidebound by your partisan politics to care if “your side” gains by such profoundly illiberal and inherently antidemocratic means, but that just means you are part of the problem, and not part of any solution. I do wonder if, had it not been for the propaganda and censorship guns having been deployed in support of the coronapanic, and previously (in the case of the BBC and Guardian rather than big tech particularly) on the Blairite side in the left’s civil war,the issue would have concerned you in the slightest anyway, so long as it was targeting people whose views you regard as bad.

120471 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 4, #1251 of 1715 🔗

Leaving aside US politics, I am concerned that Biden and the Democrats are fully bought into the coronapanic narrative, and Trump isn’t.

This is a global issue, and if the weight of the US gets behind perpetuating this thing, even countries that want to resist will struggle and become isolated.

There’s half a chance Trump will declare it over, if he wins.

I think this is the biggest threat and the biggest evil that we have ever faced in peacetime, I am prepared to forgive an awful lot to any politician who stands against it.

120621 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 1, #1252 of 1715 🔗

you’re just wrong on that Bro

120297 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #1253 of 1715 🔗

I am still trying to understand the apparently endemic lack of, at best, a basic sense of proportion, at worst, a complete absence of independent thought within parliament.

This situation derives from a general policy slide towards ‘the precautionary principle’ particularly over the last three decades but rooted, essentially, in the nineteenth century industrial regulations of Prussia

The 19th-century liberal conceptions of the Prussian state regarded the protection of people from “dangers” to life, freedom and property as one of the few legitimate grounds for State interference in the lives of individuals, manifested in Prussia’s Gewerbe-Ordnung of 1845

This doctrine of Schutzpflich re-emerged in West Germany in the 1970s as the Vorsogeprinzip given effect within 1980s German environmental policy determination.

The U.N. rio declaration 1992 incorporated the precautionary principle and the eu included it in the Maastricht Treaty to which that hopeless nincompoop, Major, signed us up. WHO jumped on the bandwagon in 2004 and this principle has been progressively consolidated in international environmental law so it has since become a full-fledged and general principle of international law.

But the Maastricht Treaty did not define the precautionary principle.

So In 2000, the European Commission offered a definition of the precautionary principle and guidance on its application that called for the consideration of costs and benefits, rather than “aim at zero risk.”

The British (and Scottish!) government has clearly departed from that guidance in any number of areas

Proportionality: ‘…must not aim at zero risk’

Non-discrimination: ‘comparable situations should not be treated differently.’

Consistency: ‘Measures should be consistent with the measures already adopted in similar circumstances.’

Examination of the benefits and costs of action or lack of action: ‘ A comparison must be made between the most likely positive or negative consequences of the envisaged action and those of inaction in terms of the overall cost to the Community, both in the long- and short-term.’

Examination of scientific developments: ‘ The measures should be maintained as long as the scientific data are inadequate, imprecise or inconclusive and as long as the risk is considered too high to be imposed on society. The measures may have to be modified or abolished by a particular deadline, in the light of new scientific findings.’

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2000:0001:FIN:EN:PDF

It would be very interesting to know whether any element of that eu guidance has been incorporated into any English (and Scottish) law?

120357 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, #1254 of 1715 🔗

Your analysis neglects the role of deregulated global corporate finance and commerce in magnifying this precautionary principle as an aid to profits.

Look at the sort of advertising on afternoon television, aimed at amplifying the fears of the vulnerable, for instance (at least the Beeb, whatever else, doesn’t pipe that crap).

120299 Drawde927, 7, #1255 of 1715 🔗

Not sure if this video link has been posted here before but I thought it was very encouraging. Police in Spain attempt to detain a maskless woman (outdoors!), other nearby members of the public intervene to stop them, chanting “Libertad!”

https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1302976062725341186

I don’t know anything more about this or when it happened (the video was tweeted yesterday). I really hope this is for real and not somehow staged!

120305 hotrod, replying to hotrod, #1256 of 1715 🔗

How can the Telegraph “swing both ways”?

Toby v this cretin.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/08/charts-uks-second-wave-picking-pace/

Click bait or just plain thick?

120321 ▶▶ Mark, replying to hotrod, 5, #1257 of 1715 🔗

Imo it’s fine to have newspapers swinging both ways. If only the rest of the panic-mongering newspapers and all the broadcast and online media outlets did as much.

Especially the double damned BBC – by which so many of us have been forced to pay for our own society’s indoctrination for 70 years and more now.

120395 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #1258 of 1715 🔗

‘forced’ ?

120432 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, 1, #1259 of 1715 🔗

License fee

120549 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, #1260 of 1715 🔗

It’s a voluntary thing, Julian.

120555 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, #1261 of 1715 🔗

If you are prepared to forego tv and radio. Which you and I might be, but most people haven’t been.

120322 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to hotrod, 5, #1262 of 1715 🔗

I couldn’t find one supporting comment for that bilge. Which is good news.
In other good news I did like this comment though from one reader – “total crap!”

120330 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to tallandbald, #1263 of 1715 🔗

But the comments keep saying that but they keep publishing the articles.

Surely the “journalist” reads the feedback and ponders that?

120333 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to hotrod, #1264 of 1715 🔗

I think Boris and his cronies are reading the feedback, clickbait as you say.

120353 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 1, #1265 of 1715 🔗

Nah. THe vast majority of ‘journalists’ are functionally illiterate … Quod erat etc.

120373 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 2, #1266 of 1715 🔗

the vast majority of journalists are hacks that just process press releases without question

120325 ▶▶ Will, replying to hotrod, 7, #1267 of 1715 🔗

I don’t mind a newspaper giving both sides of an argument. Unfortunately when the Grauniad and the BBC only ever spout Goebbels level propaganda things do become imbalanced.

120348 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Will, 3, #1268 of 1715 🔗

I would more or less agree with this. Showing different sides to an argument, or different views on the same subject, makes it clear that the issue is controversial, and might encourage people to think for themselves.
Always presenting the same perspective – especially with a “trusted” source like the BBC – is likely to make people unquestioningly assume that perspective is fact.

120383 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Will, 2, #1269 of 1715 🔗

The thought of the BBC or the Guardian (both of who accept funding from Bill Gates) being impartial, is about as likely as me soaring to the moon on a dragonfly with a tail wind of unicorn farts.

120346 ▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, 4, #1270 of 1715 🔗

Daily new infections in Britain are doubling at the same rate as they did at the start of April”

Absolute bollocks – just plain thick.

120310 Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #1271 of 1715 🔗

Every day, in every way a little joy has been expunged from life as we knew it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJvNluvSgPE

No singing Happy Birthday now, what fresh hell is this?

120349 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Laura Suckling, 4, #1272 of 1715 🔗

I might blame the government, but the thickoes who put up with having their wires pulled have to take some responsibility.

120405 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #1273 of 1715 🔗

Oh but I need to sing it twice whilst washing my hands….

120430 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to HelzBelz, #1274 of 1715 🔗

Of course, but that was the instruction of – oh God I can’t remember 5 months ago?

120566 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #1275 of 1715 🔗

6. Depressing, no?

120311 DRW, replying to DRW, 16, #1276 of 1715 🔗

Evening all, I present my observations for today. I went on a walk this afternoon to quell my anxiety and see what was happening with the schools and have a look at my neighbouring town.

At both primary schools, there was no obvious antisocial distancing at all. The adults were happily speaking to each other and hugging their children as if Covid never happened. The first school has 2m distanced queueing spaces outside but absolutely nobody used them.
That said, they have done the ‘no changing for PE’ thing and one school had ‘No Entry’ signs one some doors so they might have one-way systems. Most of the children looked happy enough, not sure if that was being back in school or that it was home time.

I then went to the neighbouring town. Those shops are on a traditional high street as opposed to the covered plaza in mine and are a more pleasant atmosphere. Very few are muzzled outside and the pavements aren’t mutilated with the stupid outdoor one way arrows or queueing areas. it still feels dystopian though, just more subtly with bossy Council “safety” conformity orders on every second lamppost and unashamedly muzzealous shops. They’ve all seemingly joined the virtue party with pretty cartoons of muzzles and cringey slogans in the windows such as “Protect our retail heroes”, “Keep everyone safe”, “Social distancing saves lives”. The country supplies shop has even gone flat out tinpot Hitler with a very aggressive “NO MASK NO ENTRY!” sign. Speaking of tinpot Hitlers, remembering a bad encounter with a jobsworth doorman the last time I went deterred me from checking out the Waitrose. Didn’t challenge any of them though as I’m boycotting indoor non-essentials and the coffee shop looked really uninviting with a full list of ‘rules’ on the doors.

On the way home it was nice to see the playground used as it should, with the capacity limit and other stupid rules getting the zero compliance they deserve. Did feel better for the excercise and I’ll see if I can report again tomorrow.

120343 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 5, #1277 of 1715 🔗

Yes – I reckon the school thing is determined by the quality of the head. Lots of ‘do’s’ an ‘dont’s’ and you have a dickhead pole-climber in charge who a di scriminating parent wouldn’t want anywhere near a child.

On the other hand – nobody making any fuss beyond token gestures, and your child has a chance of a real education.

It’s not a bad litmus test.

120393 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 2, #1278 of 1715 🔗

I reckon the school thing is determined by the quality of the head.

It has always been thus. 🙂

120371 ▶▶ court, replying to DRW, #1279 of 1715 🔗

Sounds spookily very similar to where I live right down to the signs in the market town with the Waitrose.. Outer Bristol area?

120318 DJC, replying to DJC, 5, #1280 of 1715 🔗

Macron choking in his muzzle:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Drx-1hxUe1U

120341 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to DJC, 2, #1281 of 1715 🔗

He should try teaching a classroom of kids for 6 hours in a mask like our teachers will have to do soon.

120534 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #1282 of 1715 🔗

I had my haircut today.My barber looked exhausted,asked what was wrong,he said it was wearing the mask all day.Hes ditched the visor because he can’t see through it.On the plus side of there is another lockdown he will pull the shutters down and I can go in through the back.

120590 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1283 of 1715 🔗

If there is another lockdown I suspect a lot of hairdressers will move to secret, ‘underground’ services…

120598 ▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1284 of 1715 🔗

Apparently mobile hairdressers were good to go – I think it was on the Fact or Fiction website so maybe look into that if there is a next time.

120378 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to DJC, #1285 of 1715 🔗

Did he survive?

120686 ▶▶ DomW, replying to DJC, #1286 of 1715 🔗

Nasty sounding dry cough he has there…

120320 Laura Suckling, 19, #1287 of 1715 🔗

Got talking to someone at the gym today. After the usual “how you doing ?” I proceeded to start a little rant (couldn’t help myself). To my delight, he totally agreed calling Piers Morgan a dickhead and we continued with a heartening conversation regarding the over reaction by the powers that be.

It turns out that he spends some time in the USA and had concluded that the vested interests of big pharma had a lot to do with the exaggeration of the Covid figures.

120331 Caramel, replying to Caramel, 5, #1288 of 1715 🔗

I don’t know ‘This Morning’ show or who Denise Welsh is but I like her. About the fearmongering effects in the UK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFqpt9UuKCY

120345 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Caramel, 6, #1289 of 1715 🔗

this morning is a magazine show aimed at women at home …..
Denise Welsh is an actress (usually soaps or light drama) and she sings a bit. For a few years she has also been a host on a lunchtime programme called “Loose Women” an all female magazine show. She has spoken out quite sensibly over the years on a number of subjects

120441 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to mjr, 1, #1290 of 1715 🔗

She is also the mother of Matt Healy of popular beat combo The 1975 (and ex wife of Tim Healy of Auf Wiedersehen Pet fame). Her son is normally quite outspoken but he appears to have deleted his twitter account after causing offence with an ‘All Lives Matter’ tweet.

120338 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 17, #1291 of 1715 🔗

Moving on from those snuffing it to those affected with “Long Covid” now. Let’s fuck the economy because some folk might get post viral fatigue.

120352 ▶▶ matt, replying to Hammer Onats, 10, #1292 of 1715 🔗

Hancock is talking about it like it’s a big thing and I’m fascinated to see if there is any actual assessment.

Anecdote is not the singular of data, but I know 4 people who have had it relatively badly (badly enough to be genuinely ill, but not badly enough to go to hospital). They’re a varied demographic spread:

My brother (overweight male, mid 30s). Was unwell for a week or so and then very fatigued for a couple of weeks after. Is fine now.
A partner in my mother’s GP practice (overweight male, mid 40s). Was very unwell for a couple of weeks, tired for some weeks after that. Is fine now
A friend of mine who lives nearby (overweight male, early 50s). Was sufficiently ill for an ambulance to be called, although it didn’t end up taking him to hospital. Was very fatigued for 3-4 weeks. Is fine now.
My aunt, who is a qualified nurse working at and living in a care home (underweight female, mid 60s). Was unwell for about a week. Felt the after effects for a week or so. Is fine now.

I wonder if the new “I don’t know anybody who’s died of Covid” will be “I don’t know anybody who has long Covid”?

120366 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 8, #1293 of 1715 🔗

I guess many of us have had colds (‘Corona’ viruses) that have affected us for a month.

Big f.ing deal!

120403 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 3, #1294 of 1715 🔗

Exactly. Doesn’t sound any worse than having chicken pox as an adult (which both me and Mr TT had in our early 30s).

120410 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1295 of 1715 🔗

i had it in my 40s .. hated it. had itches in some very strange places

120426 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, 5, #1296 of 1715 🔗

Yes, back in the day if you had viral symptoms a GP would just tell you to sod off unless you’d been ill for at least 3 weeks, never mind just feeling a bit tired.

120563 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 1, #1297 of 1715 🔗

Was mostly my point.

120380 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to matt, 1, #1298 of 1715 🔗

Matt, those people had flu. End of.

120431 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #1299 of 1715 🔗

It will become the new, trendy “thing” to have. Cue sad photos of people looking a bit knackered on Facebook or whatever it is young people use now. If you’d just worn a mask, this wouldn’t have happened etc etc.

120435 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Hammer Onats, 5, #1300 of 1715 🔗

It hasn’t been around long enough to judge long term effects.
“Yuppie flu” has been around for decades. It’s a thing, not imagination, but it isn’t reason to stop life and the economy.

120344 Tenchy, 7, #1301 of 1715 🔗

Melbourne comes to Caerphilly (from The Telegraph live feed):

People breaching local lockdown restrictions that come into force in Caerphilly county borough from 6pm on Tuesday face convictions and fines.

Under the legislation, people must not enter or leave the area unless they have a reasonable excuse for doing so.

The 181,000 residents of the county borough should not meet anyone who is not a member of their household indoors – including at cafes, pubs, bars and restaurant – without a good reason.

“It is a criminal offence to deliberately meet someone from outside your household in any of these settings,” guidance issued by the Welsh Government states.

Restrictions are being enforced by local authority environmental health officers and the police, who can issue fixed penalty notices or recommend prosecution in a magistrates’ court.

120347 Keen Cook, replying to Keen Cook, 26, #1302 of 1715 🔗

I’m really quite cross. Just had call with friend haven’t spoken to in months (I’m not a very good friend and need to do better for her) she had a stoma bag fitted after long op last year due to be reversed in March. Of course it hasn’t been done. She is in much pain huge quality of life impact no idea when or if it is ever going to be done. The consultant who was going to do it this month has retired. His sec is not answering her calls for help. Her GP refuses to do anything as says it’s the specialist problem. She’s not really up to getting cross with grumpy receptionists (& has had previous run-ins in the past) but the injustice of her ill health (although she admits that being alive is better than the alternative) is shocking. This is not health care for all. This is going back pre 1947 care which was only for the more affluent. Appalling. The whole medical profession needs to take a long look at itself.

120434 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Keen Cook, 7, #1303 of 1715 🔗

I’d say that the GP has a duty of care to chase this up with the hospital.
Failing that, she could try contacting PALS, if only to find out who is supposed to be taking over the consultant’s service.
There should be a General Manager for the whole department, which the specialty will come under, who can be contacted to find out who the new consultant is.
Or she can contact her MP.
Does she have anyone nearby who can fight her corner?? Sometimes it’s easier for someone else to do it, and they shouldn’t be robbed off with “data protection.”

120436 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Keen Cook, 3, #1304 of 1715 🔗

Her GP is wrong. I would think that in this case she needs to be referred again to the specialism as her earlier procedure was cancelled. If that is the case it is her GPs responsibility to make that referral for a new appointment. The GP should make a referral in any case just to make sure that she doesn’t fall through the cracks.

120473 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to p02099003, 2, #1305 of 1715 🔗

Thanks both. Think it might be something I can get my teeth into. I relish venting my anger on some incompetent smug lazy not helpful person..

120517 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Keen Cook, 3, #1306 of 1715 🔗

The surgical reversal would not have been cancelled but Boris ordered the NHS to stop all elective surgery on lunchtime March 16 th. It will be there on the ” to do ” list which is extensive. Your friend should in the first instance contact PALS , who are usually able to answer these sort of questions within the day.

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/nhs-services-and-treatments/what-is-pals-patient-advice-and-liaison-service/

120350 annie, replying to annie, 22, #1307 of 1715 🔗

Lockdown doesn’t work.
Remedy: more lockdown.

This reminds me of a passage from C. S. Forester’s The General , a brilliant novel about Allied mismanagement of the trench warfare in WW1. Forester draws this analogy for the way the failed tactic of bombardment followed by ‘over the top’ was repeated again and again:

“In some ways it was like the debate of a group of savages as to how to extract a screw from a piece of wood. Accustomed only to nails, they had made one effort to pull out the screw by main force, and now that it had failed they were devising methods of applying more force still, of obtaining more efficient pincers, of using levers and fulcrums so that more men could bring their strength to bear. They could hardly be blamed for not guessing that by rotating the screw it would come out after the exertion of far less effort; it would be a notion so different from anything they had ever encountered that they would laugh at the man who suggested it.”

Applies to the savages who govern us. Brutish stupidity. Except that they can be blamed, because the herd immunity tactic has been successfully applied in Sweden, and they know it.

120355 ▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 19, #1308 of 1715 🔗

Except that they can be blamed, because the herd immunity tactic has been successfully applied in Sweden, and they know it .”

And it was the accepted approach here, ffs, before a bunch of toddler-brained bedwetters, including far too many medically qualified people, started bleating about “putting money before lives”, “acceptable level of deaths” and “herd immunity is social darwinism”.

Our tragedy was that we lacked a government with the basic maturity, wisdom and moral fortitude to stand up to them.

120364 ▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 1, #1309 of 1715 🔗

It is the same mentality precisely.

Was a follow up novel written? Something like ‘Tommy’s revenge’ perhaps. It would be useful to look at . How was armistice brokered?

120374 ▶▶ tonys, replying to annie, #1310 of 1715 🔗

The BBC’s ‘One Show’ is treating us to fine example of brutish stupidity at the moment , all the lockdown cliches are there plus added snarkiness from a tv doctor About Dominic Cummins, which has left him looking immensely pleased with himself.

120406 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to tonys, #1311 of 1715 🔗

Where do they find them? In the phone directory?

120363 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1312 of 1715 🔗

CDC this past week started publishing caseline data for 3.5M cases resulting in 125K deaths . Interesting data

https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1302991924425449478/photo/1

Case fatality C-19 rage by age bracket. Deaths almost halved in over 80s in 3 months.

https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1302991922814840839/photo/1

 CFR in US from 8.7% to 1.7% in mid July but seems further down in Aug. Remarkable. Better treatment? Younger patients? Milder virus?

120490 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1313 of 1715 🔗

Cases vs Illness?

120581 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1314 of 1715 🔗

In Sweden, 70% of deaths have been of people either in care homes or receiving care/ support in their own homes..

120368 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1315 of 1715 🔗

Manchester Evening News: GMB’s Dr Hilary Jones warns ‘covid deniers’ could trigger virus spike next month.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/gmbs-dr-hilary-jones-warns-18896840

120438 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #1316 of 1715 🔗

Dr. Hilary Jones should take a running jump off a long pier.

120444 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Lms23, 5, #1317 of 1715 🔗

A wrong un. Another one to be put on ‘the list’

120601 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, 1, #1318 of 1715 🔗

…. short pier …

120507 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1319 of 1715 🔗

Does that mean believers can’t spread the virus? Everybody get back to normal, we now know heaven awaits those who believe.

120372 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, #1320 of 1715 🔗

Channel 4 News, 7 pm. COVID-19 Headline:

30 DEATHS TODAY !!!

120443 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1321 of 1715 🔗

Did they die today?
Did they die from CV19, or was it a coincidental finding?

According to CEBM, 8 deaths were announced for England for 8/September, 3 died yesterday, 3 the day before, and 2 the day before that.

30 deaths is a big jump, and I doubt they know the full details.

120469 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Lms23, #1323 of 1715 🔗

My understanding is that it refers to deaths reported today, from all settings. There is a graph online somewhere that shows the true picture of actual deaths per day, but I can’t recall where it is. C4 and the rest of the MSM just home in on the published figure and mostly don’t give an explanation.

120573 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Tenchy, #1324 of 1715 🔗

Sadly it is quite difficult to contact them to complain about their false reporting. I usually use their FB site.

120375 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, #1325 of 1715 🔗

Do we still have to quarantine if travelling back from Sweden (rhetorical question):

https://cf-particle-html.eip.telegraph.co.uk/926a8bb5-a35a-4f71-923b-5e3548679f1b.html

120377 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1327 of 1715 🔗

I have this vision of Britain in say 2023 or so.
Having snatched a crust from a mongrel in the gutter,I look up and see a poster on one of the few remaining buildings still standing in our destroyed country and read “Rejoice, Covid finally eradicated “

120381 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1328 of 1715 🔗

Bad choice. Roast and eat the mongrel (and the crust).

120386 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to JohnB, 2, #1329 of 1715 🔗

I didn’t say the mongrel was a dog.

120425 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1330 of 1715 🔗

Nor did JohnB…

120453 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Mark, 1, #1331 of 1715 🔗

Actually I think his name was Boris ( The mongrel that is)

120390 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1332 of 1715 🔗

Too optimistic, Covid will still be around.

120433 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1333 of 1715 🔗

If you’re really lucky you may snag a passing rat. You may have to fight for it though.

120379 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1334 of 1715 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.03.20187856v1 Immunological characteristics govern the changing severity of COVID-19 during the transition to endemicity
“Our analysis of immunological and epidemiological data on HCoVs shows that infection-blocking immunity wanes rapidly, but disease-reducing immunity is long-lived. We estimate the relevant parameters and incorporate them into a new epidemiological model framework which separates these different components of immunity. Our model recapitulates both the current severity of CoV-2 and the relatively benign nature of HCoVs; suggesting that once the endemic phase is reached, CoV-2 may be no more virulent than the common cold.

120394 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1335 of 1715 🔗

The last sentence is the clincher, but unfortunately it won’t wash with the zero-covid maniacs.

120402 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1336 of 1715 🔗

“The benign outcome at the endemic phase is contingent on the virus causing primary infections in children”.

120635 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1337 of 1715 🔗

I read a very good article in Stat back in January suggesting that this would likely be the trajectory of the virus, and nothing I have seen since contradicts that perspective

120412 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to swedenborg, #1339 of 1715 🔗

Interesting but I can’t fathom it. From this, can we work out roughly how many false positives there have been?

120578 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1340 of 1715 🔗

‘Choosing the right tests from the available technologies is an essential step in building a viable mass testing system.’

So no suggestion of NOT doing mass testing at all…. merely a question of which system to build – grrrrr!

120571 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1342 of 1715 🔗

More like ‘IN’credible – ie unbelievable…

120577 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1343 of 1715 🔗

Not the old “reinfection” chestnut again. What a wazzock.

120664 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #1344 of 1715 🔗

Wazzcock

120389 Marialta, 4, #1345 of 1715 🔗

Most of Disney’s studio work in the war years was for government agencies. They produced masses of anti Nazi and anti Japanese propaganda. They encouraged children to support the war effort through savings & Donald Duck became a US ambassador.embodying USA values …. fast forward 75 years… interesting that the company seems to be going into overdrive to once again show they are fighting a new war against a new Enemy:-)

120397 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 3, #1346 of 1715 🔗

Is there one MP who has spoken out against the lockdown?

120424 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Andrew, 4, #1347 of 1715 🔗

No. There have been some rumblings about masks and re-opening quicker, but none who have admitted it was wrong and none who have said we should get back to normal, now.

120562 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 4, #1348 of 1715 🔗

And worryingly I have not heard of any MP saying they will NOT vote to extend the coronavirus act either…

It is concerning me that it is called the ‘coronavirus’ act and not the ‘Covid 19’ act – could it be used indefinitely if there were another coronavirus released on us?

120454 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Andrew, 2, #1349 of 1715 🔗

David Davis gave a good speech about the failure of Parliament, that it simply wasn’t working despite the current situation and several big decisions that need to be made, which should be debated at the least.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3rAFwzcH8v0
Weakest Commons ever seen! Senior Conservative hits out at government arrangements

On the lockdowns, I’ve heard nothing from any MP that i recall.

120465 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Lms23, 6, #1350 of 1715 🔗

He didn’t have the balls to say: “we should get back to working normally here immediately, no tests, no restrictions, no masks, no nonsense. The business of Parliament is just too important to pay such a relatively unthreatening disease any mind in here”.

That’s what he should have said. Instead he came out with some appeasing drivel about “testing MPs every day”, which would just be another big waste of time and resources and another piece of scaremongering theatre to promote the panic.

Useless.

120483 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 4, #1351 of 1715 🔗

Utterly useless.

To think not a single one has just said “the Emperor has no clothes” – pathetic

120565 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, #1352 of 1715 🔗

Thought it was the Speaker who wanted the daily testing? Mind you as a diabetic he may be extra worried about the risk to himself…

120623 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Carrie, 2, #1353 of 1715 🔗

If you watch the clip linked by Lms2, Davis suggests it at 4:20.

He’s making a legitimate point, that Parliament needs to get back to working properly, but he seems to think the way to do that is to dance around pretending this disease is some kind of infectious airborne ebola variant.

I don’t think diabetics face increased risks, type 1s anyway (don’t know which type he is). though he’s probably old enough to have slightly higher risks than most, but the risks are still trivial and should not be allowed to interfere with governance. Indeed at the moment it should be a point of pride for each and every MP to refuse to hide from these risks in the slightest, on principle, in order to set an example and reduce the panic that is disabling the country.

120656 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #1354 of 1715 🔗

He could just wear a hazmat suit and let the rest of the country get on with some work.

120567 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tee Ell, #1356 of 1715 🔗

That was ages ago though – has he said anything since then? Not actually seen him in Parliament..

120570 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andrew, 1, #1358 of 1715 🔗

No. Steve Baker was concerned about rights and liberties, but that’s about it.

120398 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 6, #1359 of 1715 🔗

Toby Young making some great points here. As for the guy who wants a lockdown until next spring enforced by the army …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR_9kMB57lw&ab_channel=talkRADIO

120427 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Chicot, 10, #1360 of 1715 🔗

toby is brilliant .. and as for the other guy .. there is a village in Lincolnshire missing its idiot

120510 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to mjr, 4, #1361 of 1715 🔗

Don’t worry,here in Lincolnshire we’ve got plenty of spare idiots to go round,I imagine a lot of my fellow yellow-bellies are probably in full agreement with the prat in wanting lockdown forever.

120458 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Chicot, 3, #1362 of 1715 🔗

Thanks for posting. Toby nails it.

120462 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Chicot, 7, #1363 of 1715 🔗

Well that’s just great. The army to enforce a new lock down and one member of your household ‘let out’ once a week.

You can’t blame the poor chap as he’s been scared shitless by the MSM.

What of those key workers though? Are they allowed to do their jobs? If not who will care for the elderly, produce or distribute our food? Oh, that’s OK the virus has recently developed new powers enabling it to distinguish between Key workers and others.

Jesus, please let me wake up from this nightmare soon.

120506 ▶▶▶ john, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #1364 of 1715 🔗

Sadly, i think Toby et al are still in the minority and there are many out there that would support Simon from Lincolnshire – which goes to show that with a small amount of media propaganda the majority will succumb to absolutely anything, and do absolutely anything that is asked of them, regardless of science, morals or anything else.

120559 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to john, 2, #1365 of 1715 🔗

…until they are actually locked up for months on end and cannot leave their homes at all.. Christmas would be ‘interesting’…

120568 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 2, #1366 of 1715 🔗

And until the money runs out. Or the lights go out. Or the drainage no longer works.

120591 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ john, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1367 of 1715 🔗

Still, if it “saves one life” it will all be worth it…please tell me that’s true…

120558 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Laura Suckling, 3, #1368 of 1715 🔗

Yes, and did you notice he talked about the one person being let out to ‘gather’ food – an interesting image…which would imply he thinks there is going to be a food shortage?

120557 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Chicot, 6, #1369 of 1715 🔗

Not only do these lockdown lovers over-estimate how many die from Covid, they also seem to think we have a massive army, capable of enforcing a nationwide lockdown. Our army is barely large enough to enforce a lockdown on the Isle of Wight. Even with Portsmouth just across the Solent, I doubt if our navy could prevent the chalkheads from fleeing to the mainland in rubber boats.

120401 tonys, replying to tonys, 8, #1370 of 1715 🔗

Our leaders and media have raised the stakes over the few days; if they don’t get their hoped for large increase in deaths explainations will need to be good to keep their narrative on the road. There will be some increase, it’s inevitable when deaths within 28 days of a positive test are recorded as Covid, but if as we all expect it is considerably lower than six months ago we should all be ready to ask the awkward questions of our leaders.

120407 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to tonys, 12, #1371 of 1715 🔗

I’d love a nice long Indian summer to piss on Hancock’s bonfire.

120539 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1372 of 1715 🔗

I don’t need that excuse. That it’s Footpenis is good enough for me.

120423 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to tonys, 6, #1373 of 1715 🔗

I didn’t think Kay Burley was buying it this morning. Alison Pollock (alternate SAGE) seemed a bit sceptical this afternoon when interviewed (I was a bit surprised). Certainly, if positive ‘cases’ is flat or down over the next few days, some of the ‘experts’ out and about yesterday are going to be feeling a bit sensitive. The media is very good at building you up only to knock you down, so when they turn, these guys will be shown no mercy. As for the politicians – very thick skin and telling untruths goes with the territory, so don’t expect any mea culpas.

120542 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to tonys, 6, #1374 of 1715 🔗

Will they divert to a new narrative of ‘ covid-like infections ‘ – which are in fact infections resulting from mask-wearing??

By the way, it would seem that they are actually being described as ‘ masks ‘ now, not ‘ face coverings ‘ any more…

120404 Londo Mollari, 2, #1375 of 1715 🔗

The restrictions are being tighetned in Bolton and the local authority are next door to Caerphilly – Rhondda Cynon Taf – may be the next to go into lockdown. Really depressing. All based on tests.

120409 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 13, #1376 of 1715 🔗

STOP PRESS – BREAKING NEWS

NY Times discovers previously unknown Human Immune System…

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1303339862767161344

Covid-19 patients who are 80 or older are hundreds of times more likely to die than those under 40. Some scientists suggest a likely, if underappreciated, driver of this increased risk: the aging immune system.

How the Aging Immune System Makes Older People Vulnerable to Covid-19 As we age, the immune system begins to shift into a heightened state of alert, dialing up inflammation and running out of certain immune cells.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/08/health/covid-aging-immune-system.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

120497 ▶▶ john, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #1377 of 1715 🔗

Major scientific break through there – broadly translated as old people are more likely to die than young people because they are, well, old. And all this time i thought we were all immortal……

120537 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to john, 7, #1378 of 1715 🔗

I did wonder where all those people I used to know had gone…

120630 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1379 of 1715 🔗

One of the few good things to come out of the last few months, is some of these daily dumbfuck, horseshit, laugh out loud, nonsense articles.

120414 Will, 7, #1380 of 1715 🔗

Allison Pearson is brilliant in the Telegraph, cheered me up no end after a demoralising day. The example of the woman who sleeps in face nappy and gloves sent beer through my nose!!!

120417 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 3, #1381 of 1715 🔗

STOP PRESS Breaking News
A journalist gets off their backside – tracks down the ravers and sees how they are getting on!

120475 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Steeve, 7, #1382 of 1715 🔗

As a covidiot myself, I’m more than happy to be interviewed about my many pub visits, house parties and holiday that all went swimmingly.

120419 GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #1383 of 1715 🔗

I came across these petitions and thought some of you guys might be interested in signing.

https://liberty.e-activist.com/page/58612/petition/1?locale=en-GB

https://liberty.e-activist.com/page/63721/petition/1?locale=en-GB

120428 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1384 of 1715 🔗

Thanks. Both done.

120421 richard riewer, 2, #1385 of 1715 🔗

This satirical squib by a YouTuber calling herself WhatsHerFace is brilliant. Not sure who she is, but she’s a committed lockdown sceptic and has a razor-sharp tongue. Not everything she does is intended to be funny. In this video , she lets Kim-Jong Dan have it with both barrels.

Jr Walker & The Allstars: Shotgun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhI_ECOAK4

120440 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 2, #1386 of 1715 🔗

France and Spain cases dropping – second day?

Can someone do a favour.

Updated headlines I think now show two days of falling “cases” France and Spain.

Does anyone have a link to this, the latest graph for both countries?

It would be quite a surprise to Hancock if in fact their “wave” is over already.

Spain particularly seems 50% down on a few days ago.

120460 ▶▶ Will, replying to hotrod, 11, #1387 of 1715 🔗

I imagine both countries have concluded that the virus is now no more dangerous than a common cold and have reduced their testing regime accordingly. If the UK wasn’t run by the most useless collection of woman’s areas in it’s history we would be doing the same.

120493 ▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Will, 5, #1388 of 1715 🔗

Poland has done the same, new Health Minister, miraculous drop in “cases” …

120536 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 7, #1389 of 1715 🔗

Sweden’s positive tests are at 1.6%…so only very few of those being tested are showing as positive now.

Hospitalisations continuing to fall – only 3 (of 21) regions with double figures of people in hospital and a lot discharged from Stockholm in the last few days..

120446 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 9, #1390 of 1715 🔗

Germany getting it right. Just down to airport testing? Low cases low deaths.

How they must laugh at us.

120459 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to hotrod, 2, #1391 of 1715 🔗

Not that you would notice behind the mask.

120448 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1392 of 1715 🔗

Still working my way through posts from 6 hours ago!

Found one about Leicestershire.
Look at this!

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/coronavirus-testing-service-unavailable-people-4495493

How can cases have spiked if people can’t get tested because the labs are backed up?!? Home tests kits are not available either.

People are driving round determined to get tested! Can anyone explain the logic of testing in this case: “People will give up and not bother, if it gets to four or five days after you start showing symptoms the system won’t let you book anyway, others just won’t have a test at all.”

PS Article written by Amy Orton Local Democracy Reporter .
Such irony!

120616 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1393 of 1715 🔗

I think nearly all the tests are in workplaces and now schools. It seems that some people being tested 2-3 times a week is possibly what’s driving this. Seek and you will find.

120531 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, #1395 of 1715 🔗

How did they know where to find her?

120610 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Charlie Blue, #1396 of 1715 🔗

Fairplay to her, the waves looked good!

120456 Harry hopkins, 3, #1397 of 1715 🔗

Sorry if this has been posted before but it brought a big smile to my mask less face:

https://youtu.be/dgvTdEZk-w4

120467 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 11, #1398 of 1715 🔗

It is extremely frustrating to hear people still think the controls are anything to do with ;covid’. Hancock has already come about a Covid pass to go to the theatre. He is a globalist plant and thinks there is a chance he can swing this for his masters.

120476 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1399 of 1715 🔗

I’m sure they are nothing to do with covid, but I don’t think it follows that Hancock is a globalist plant. It could just be about Hancock liking the attention and the power, and not wanting it to be over.

120487 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Julian, 4, #1400 of 1715 🔗

Hancock has links to Big Pharma. He’s probably in line for a nice little payoff from vaccine revenue.

120644 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Chicot, #1401 of 1715 🔗

Big Pharma and AI

120491 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 1, #1402 of 1715 🔗

There are some Tory MP’s kicking up about what he and Johnson are doing, they should stick a target on their backs

120513 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1403 of 1715 🔗

There are? Who?

120529 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, #1404 of 1715 🔗

Yes, who?

120478 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1405 of 1715 🔗

He has no self awareness. He likely thinks he will be PM. He is a dangerous deluded fool, but sadly, we could be stuck with him for some time yet!

120492 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1406 of 1715 🔗

Hope not, he’s doing a lot of damage to the country

120523 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1407 of 1715 🔗

Self awareness and political life seem increasingly mutually exclusive

120504 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1408 of 1715 🔗

I for one, welcome our insect overlords.

120482 PastImperfect, #1409 of 1715 🔗

The “simulation with the release of a lethal pathogen”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7I5LzLgNSI&t

120484 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1410 of 1715 🔗

Does This Make Sense To You?

A review of Govt and Media lies and manipulation

120512 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1411 of 1715 🔗

Good watch that. I’ll look for the earlier chapters.

120485 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #1412 of 1715 🔗

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/covid-19-cases-and-the-weekend-effect

Heneghan again, I knew he’d be all over the “spike” like a rash.

120505 ▶▶ Will, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1413 of 1715 🔗

Could you provide a précis?

120525 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Will, 1, #1414 of 1715 🔗

Test numbers are always lower at weekends, and this effect is accentuated by the Bank Holiday Monday on 31 August. And (contrary to John Edmunds spectacularly bedwetting performance on ITN yesterday ), “the data is not exponentially rising”.

120587 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, #1415 of 1715 🔗

Day-on-day it is exponentially declining!

120516 ▶▶ leggy, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1416 of 1715 🔗

Shame he got his chart wrong, can’t have 5 normal weekdays in a bank holiday week. Short copy for Will:

There’s significant mounting interest in the increase in detected cases in the UK. However, it’s worth looking at the data to try and understand what is going on.
First, it is essential to analyse cases by the date the specimen was taken, as opposed to reported. The second vital thing to do is to observe this data for emerging patterns, even before looking at the numbers.
If you do this, then the Government’s Staging Data shows an emerging pattern, whereby the number of people testing positive on the weekend is significantly lower than that observed in the week. Furthermore, if you assess the data for the last week, you see this effect is accentuated by the Bank Holiday Monday on 31 August.

This suggests people would rather not come forward for testing on the weekend or, alternatively, the system has less capacity at the weekend, meaning it is more challenging to get a test. Undeniably, viruses work seven days a week; so, are people waiting till the Monday to get their test done, or is the system just not up to it?
This weekend effect pulls down the seven-day moving average – and looking at the low numbers on the weekend might give you a false sense of reassurance. This is because it seems cases are down, and therefore elimination of the virus is possible. But, unlike our population, viruses do work weekends.
Suppose you remove the weekend effect, by standardising the cases numbers to the previous Friday’s results. In that case, you get fewer troughs in the data and observe numbers have been much higher than considered throughout August.
The Office for National Statistics Infection survey data has already told us this is the case. An estimated 27,000 people – and as many as 37,000 – in England had Covid-19 during the week from the 19 to 25 August 2020. Yet, government testing only picked up 6,900 over this same period, less than one-fifth of the upper number of infections predicted by the survey data.

What is damaging, at this time, is advice that jumps to rash conclusions; the data is not exponentially rising. Will cases rise as we go into winter? Yes, as they will for all acute respiratory pathogens. In a good year, they will increase about fourfold between now and Christmas; in a bad year, about eightfold.
Could the bank holiday have, therefore, facilitated the increase due to delays in those coming forward for testing? It would seem the testing is not functioning seven days a week, unlike Covid-19.
Written by Prof Carl Heneghan

120521 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to leggy, 5, #1417 of 1715 🔗

I can sense a growing tone of exasperation and contempt in his output – I get the impression he is furious. Doing a good job of keeping it in.

120532 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 4, #1418 of 1715 🔗

So far, in addition to Hancock, Devi Sridhar (Sunday), JV-T and Edmonds (yesterday) have jumped on this and forwarded another round of scare stories. If the data settles down, and/or the ONS random testing survey shows no material change, they should all consider their positions.

120624 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to leggy, 1, #1419 of 1715 🔗

The key fact still remains that there is no clear calibration between illness and ‘cases’ detected by PRC testing. It’s a massive hole.

120489 Dave #KBF, 11, #1420 of 1715 🔗

Just listening to TalkRADIO, 20:30 on Tuesday Kevin O’Sullivan with guest Carol McGiffin sensible talk about lockdown madness.

Seems to be the only place on UK MSM to hear sensible conversation.

120495 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 9, #1421 of 1715 🔗

Maybe this is the reason for the sudden jump in positive tests over the last couple of days (The Telegraph – paywall):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/08/labs-told-run-patients-covid-19-tests-twice-amid-concerns-false/

Coronavirus labs have been told to test patients twice in some circumstances amid concerns that false-positive tests could be exaggerating the national picture.

…..

Experts have warned the new guidance may have been issued due to varying standards used across testing sites, particularly at the Government’s flagship Lighthouse labs.

Previous reports have raised concerns of staff working in these private labs who say that standards hugely differ between sites.

Just as long as if they get a second confirmatory positive they don’t count it twice. They wouldn’t do that, would they ….. )

120499 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1422 of 1715 🔗

They’re really taking the p155 out of us…

120515 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, #1423 of 1715 🔗

That’s because he’s a government official .

120519 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1424 of 1715 🔗

Yes, they absolutely would. They have now also gone away to ‘find’ some extra deaths. Every time they change the methodology, you know they are up to something.

120627 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Tenchy, #1425 of 1715 🔗
120737 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BTLnewbie, #1426 of 1715 🔗

It seems to be a response to the recent review by Carl Henegen, what a hero he’s been. However, they’ve been less than specific.

They ask labs set a cycle threshold for what constitutes a positive test. If someone tests positive above this, a second test with the same or a second sample should take place to confirm. Even then a decision should be made as to whether a person should be deemed infectious.

Sounds good.

However the devil is more than likely in the detail. What cycle threshold are going to use and, as this guidance was annouced yesterday, what have they been using till now? Because they are locking down based on averages seen over the recent term.

I’