Last updated2020-09-10T09:28:06



123316 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 38, #1 of 1659 🔗

I feel mildly cheered by this news. I’m sure I will end up being disappointed. However, optimists – like Toby – are the ones who keep good causes going, so thanks.

123332 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Londo Mollari, 36, #2 of 1659 🔗

What’s the point of having members of Parliament if they don’t protect their constituents form an overbearing Government.

By now the Government must know that lockdowns don’t work.

Peru went into lockdown 16th March – 911 deaths per million (the highest death rate in the world after San Marino)
Brazil – no lockdown – 602 deaths per million

Only 8 reported Covid death in the UK the day Boris Johnson decides to become Oliver Cromwell and threatens to ban Christmas.

No doubt we should call his Covid Marshal social distancing clowns Oliver’s Army

123335 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #3 of 1659 🔗

Oliver’s Army, I like that, comes complete with it’s own tune but I doubt if our ill-educated population would get the point.

123340 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to karenovirus, 2, #4 of 1659 🔗

I know. It sounds to friendly.

123354 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 12, #5 of 1659 🔗

Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Johnson?

123504 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 15, #6 of 1659 🔗

I suggest Blockwarts

“Blockleiter from 1933 was the title of a lower Nazi Party political rank responsible for the political supervision of a neighborhood. Referred to in common parlance as Blockwart, the officials were in charge to form the link between the Nazi authorities and the general population.”

123536 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Strange Days, 5, #7 of 1659 🔗

The Soviets had the same similarly translating as Block Warden.

123631 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Strange Days, 6, #8 of 1659 🔗

I prefer Blockleiter.

Blockwarts reminds me of Harry Potter.

123624 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #9 of 1659 🔗

Or Boris Brownshirts

123720 ▶▶▶▶ Allan Gay, replying to DomW, 8, #10 of 1659 🔗

His very own Sturmabteilung.

Brown shirts, yes. Polished leather belt and boots, yes. The Luger pistol may be unwise, however.

A cattle prod will suffice.

123952 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Allan Gay, 2, #11 of 1659 🔗

Or a mutton muzzle.

124960 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DomW, 1, #12 of 1659 🔗


123726 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #13 of 1659 🔗

How about Tools

123944 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #14 of 1659 🔗

Plain old wankers works for me.

123985 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to leggy, 4, #15 of 1659 🔗

My first and only piece of political agitation was tracing in the snow with my welly boot

‘parkie is a wanker’

(That’s Park Keeper to our younger readers, generally retired N.C.O.s who could be very fierce. I’ve long thought that the country started going downhill when they got cancelled in the 1980s).

123964 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #16 of 1659 🔗

Nah. Call them what they are: The Stasi

124319 ▶▶▶▶ Hester, replying to Lms23, 3, #17 of 1659 🔗

treat them as the Stasi, make them Pariahs, spurn them and shame them, these people will be on a pittance but will behave like they run the place, if they were to be given cattle prods they would no doubt use them on some old lady.These people will undoubtedly be local so as a community blank them, they are there to monitor your behaviour on behalf of this Government and to correct errant behaviour for that they must accept that they cannot be seen as part of the community and must expect to be reviled by the community.

124381 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hester, 1, #18 of 1659 🔗

Retired EHOs. Says it all. Maybe paid a pittance but wil be drawing a nice pension too.

124206 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #19 of 1659 🔗

They are practicing independence of thought training en masse

124352 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #20 of 1659 🔗

Kapos who were the jews used by gestapo to do the dirty work in the camps.

124486 ▶▶▶ MWT, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #21 of 1659 🔗

Along with Ferguson’s New Model Army?

124572 ▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #22 of 1659 🔗

I believe the reason why everyone is abiding by the lockdown rules. Is common sense, but as Einstein said “common sense is the accumulation of prejudices by the age of 18. What he meant was that common sense will get you so far but science will get you further. As you point out lockdown Peru as a much higher death rate than non lockdown Brazil.This can be reflected every where from lockdown Scotland to non lockdown Sweden lockdown as failed to save lives. Like everyone else I’ve had no colds sore throat,flu even headaches which I suffered at least once a week of all gone away. As lockdown suppressed my immunity due to less bugs being around?
I don’t know, all I do know is that using common sense it’s been easier for governments to lockdown than take the brave decision to not lockdown.

123333 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Londo Mollari, 13, #23 of 1659 🔗

Viral Issue Crucial Update Sept 8th: the Science, Logic and Data Explained!
Ivor Cummins
97.7K subscribers

All the facts you need to know on why the Covid has performed the same as flu regarding the rise and fall in infections.

123434 ▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #24 of 1659 🔗

This is brilliant. Watch. His lovely Irish accent makes him all the more plausible

124383 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marie R, 1, #25 of 1659 🔗

The fact that he’s a good solid scientist makes him plausible!

123484 ▶▶▶ MrMClass, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #26 of 1659 🔗

Everything Ivor produces is worth looking at. Strongly recommended.

123317 Cristi.Neagu, 38, #27 of 1659 🔗

The key conclusion that severe social distancing measures were required to prevent health systems being overwhelmed hinged only on estimates of R0/doubling time, hospitalisation rates and IFR (mortality risk). Given those estimates, any epidemic model would give basically the same conclusions we reached.

So, in other words, the initial assumptions were knowingly chosen to produce the desired result. Confirmation bias at its finest.

123318 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 28, #28 of 1659 🔗

What can we actually do to stop/change the narrative and pressure the Handy Cocks of this world to switch their critical reasoning back on?”

Not much, i don’t think. The public has been trained for decades to forget all about disobedience towards the government. Seems to me that people these days will still obey authorities even if they know it’s wrong to do so. That is, those that bother thinking about it. A lot of people simply don’t care. “This is what the BBC says, that must be the truth. Because, after all, the BBC is a truly unbiased news source. Why would the government do me harm?”

123355 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 31, #29 of 1659 🔗

Loads of people tell me they have stopped watching the news and stress the BBC in particular. Reasons vary from it’s boring, it’s depressing but some do say it’s full of lies and propaganda.

123366 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 30, #30 of 1659 🔗

I stopped ages ago. I ditched my TV licence, got a refund and haven’t looked back. Plus, there’s the added satisfaction of knowing I am north of £150 better off!

It dawned on me how much influence it had on me and I got sick of being hammered the whole time with ‘messages’ and basically being told how to think. Was happy to see yesterday that The Spectator have launched SpectatorTV.

123509 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to kh1485, 6, #31 of 1659 🔗

I did the same, no regrets.

123642 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to kh1485, 7, #32 of 1659 🔗

I would do the same, but what keeps me sane (I hope!) is the old films on Talking Pictures TV and a few other channels. Basically, the TV licence helps me to live in the non-PC past for part of the time.

And I do watch University Challenge (now with wok-i-fied questions – which are the only ones the teams generally pass on!) and the old TOTP re-runs.

123654 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #33 of 1659 🔗

Take your point, that’s what stopped me for a while. But there’s loads of stuff on YouTube and I watch DVDs and, mostly now, listen to talkRADIO. The deciding factor for me was depriving the useless BBC of my hard-earned!

123693 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to kh1485, 11, #34 of 1659 🔗

Me too. I ditched my TV licence and feel so much better for it. I only really watch YouTube and other streaming platforms. I don’t subscribe to anything because I’m really not that interested but it is amazing how many good films and programmes, as well as excellent individual content is available free on sites such as YouTube, compared to most of the dross on mainstream tv. And I’ve discovered talkRADIO too, this year.

123733 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to HelenaHancart, 3, #35 of 1659 🔗

I would love to ditch my TV licence but I do like to watch county cricket – which I do via live streams direct from the grounds, not via Sky. And any live stream I believe needs a TV licence, even though it’s coming over the internet. Ridiculous.

123972 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #36 of 1659 🔗

The Yesterday channel and Talking Pictures are my main ones now. I think they both have links with the hated BBC but I’ll live with that compromise. As for radio, I listen to some BBC music programmes but dive for the off button when a news bulletin is approaching.

123436 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 11, #37 of 1659 🔗

I stopped watching years ago and now have completely stopped looking at the MSM – it was clear that they weren’t reporting facts but rather what they wanted you to see and think.

123546 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #38 of 1659 🔗

I stopped watching TV in general for good about 15 years ago, just watching a bit here and there, CH4 news at 7:00pm most days. I stopped with MSM totally in April. I will NEVER go back to any of it. It’s total poison.

123606 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, 8, #39 of 1659 🔗

CH4 news at 7 is worse than BBC – and that is saying something!! You cannot say you have stopped with MSM if you watch this.

123790 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mjr, 3, #40 of 1659 🔗

CH4 news was getting to be more and more intolerable for a long time. It was my only concession to MSM. However I found it slightly less egregious than the BBC. I used to listen to radio 4 quite a bit too just to see what the state’s talking point was for the day.

123815 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, 8, #41 of 1659 🔗

The only subscription I’ve kept is the Spectator. I’m glad to be rid of the Times, have not read the Guardian for years now and ditto the BBC websites.

I’ve retreated to YouTube and podcasts such as Triggernometry and New Culture Forum as well as reading.

123912 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 4, #42 of 1659 🔗

CH4 is a public-owned – i.e. government – broadcaster.

basically BBC without the licence feea s it must be self-financing:


123488 ▶▶▶ MrMClass, replying to karenovirus, 11, #43 of 1659 🔗

I stopped watching/listening to the BBC and Channel 4 News in April as I could no longer stomach the over-hyped message they were pushing.

123538 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 17, #44 of 1659 🔗

I am hearing from LOADS of “normies” that they have stopped watching particularly the BBC but also stopped listening to the radio, all the channels really, since about April. It’s very noticeable.

124372 ▶▶▶ Geraint, replying to karenovirus, 2, #45 of 1659 🔗

Insufferable ‘Today’ in particular. Michal Hussein, Nick Robinson etc all with their questions loaded with piousness about the right way to behave : face nappies, social distancing and all that shit….

123409 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 32, #46 of 1659 🔗

Let’s commission an independent poll that shows that a majority of the population are against more measures and want to return to normal life.

I don’t trust the poll showing 62% of Brits in favour of curfew. I don’t believe it for a minute.

I’ll happily contribute to an independent survey that asks the questions in the right way.

e.g. are you tired of lockdown measures, do you enjoy wearing a masks, would you like to see an immediate return to normality, should the government have the power to ruin one life to try (and possibly fail) to save another.

Proper questions.

123413 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to stewart, 10, #47 of 1659 🔗

Someone referred to the yougov polling site here yesterday, so I went to have a look and vote in some polls. The questions were in fact pretty neutral (although there were a couple of instances where there wasn’t an option that reflected exactly what I think). After you vote, you get to see the current results. They were depressing, to say the least. In every case, the current balance was _overwhelmingly_ the opposite of my answer.

123416 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to matt, 1, #48 of 1659 🔗

Do you have a link?

123454 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to stewart, #49 of 1659 🔗
123433 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to matt, 14, #50 of 1659 🔗

If you can just pop up to their site and vote then that rather invalidates the result. Experts like ukpollingreport has always been scathing of polls based on self-selecting respondents. Proper polls work by inviting specific respondents and weighting according to socio-economic groupings, although even that can be suspect in instances where the groupings don’t really make sense to the question (why would, say, your political leanings shape your views on asparagus?). But I imagine what’s happening here is that knowledge of the poll is being spread through particular channels (say, through Twitter) and that is massively biasing the sample.

123617 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Andrew Fish, 9, #51 of 1659 🔗

i completed it .. no log ins or anything. simple for the authorities 77th brigade or whatever they are called to complete manually or use a bot to make positive votes.

123696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to mjr, 2, #52 of 1659 🔗

I always refer to the 77th as the SS and I presume the initial letters are the reason the moniker was chosen.

123568 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to matt, 3, #53 of 1659 🔗

I was send a survey by YouGov asking questions like did I approve of the new measures, curfews and so on and my view of the Government.I answered no and that the Government was doing a very bad job to each question.

123574 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 2, #54 of 1659 🔗

I answered similar questions yesterday. As I say, depressingly the results I was then shown were along the lines of 72% strongly in favour and similar proportions who wanted more and stricter regulations.

If the government really pays attention to these things, we’re doomed, forever.

123439 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 6, #55 of 1659 🔗

7000+ reviews, 93% negative. Pile on, folks!

124794 ▶▶▶ Les Tricoteuses, replying to Marie R, #56 of 1659 🔗

Thanks for link, just left a one star review

123554 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #57 of 1659 🔗

Over 8,500 people are with us and oppose the Government’s measures enough to support this Judicial Review of the lockdown and related regulations:


The Appeal hearing is due in less than 2 weeks. At the very least, the Government will have to start answering some difficult questions. So – to answer the question – this is something we can do.

123691 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to zacaway, 5, #58 of 1659 🔗

I donated the 41 quid needed to get them to 300k yesterday.

123564 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 6, #59 of 1659 🔗

Dinner was very awkward last night as for some reason my family had the Ministry of Truth on over dinner! Thankfully they switched off after 10 mins but even that left me queasy for a few hours. Disgusting promotion of the Clown Show sermon in that uniquely condescending “do not question this plebs” BBC tone I’d forgotten about.

There needs to be a website to “fact-check” the BBC but you’d never be able keep up with it.

123710 ▶▶▶ Pjb, replying to DRW, 4, #60 of 1659 🔗

This used to do exactly that, but as you say, there was almost too much to keep up with.


123322 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, 2, #62 of 1659 🔗

Good stuff from the Old Man In A Chair but he won’t get much reach from that site, sadly.

123572 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 7, #63 of 1659 🔗

More so than YouTube who banned his videos though.

He’s probably done enough to have a good base of followers who can grow from any platform.

123603 ▶▶ RichT, replying to richard riewer, 3, #64 of 1659 🔗

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/this-fraud-is-now-blindingly-obvious_17uG1jJdsRcitiZ.html . Link to video published by Dr Coleman. Link posted above is a copy of video.

123321 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 26, #65 of 1659 🔗

We can only go back to normal when we have Zero Government.

123405 ▶▶ Biker, replying to richard riewer, 11, #66 of 1659 🔗

we could achieve zero government if we changed the law to say if a party can’t get more than 50% of the people to vote for them they can’t govern. If no party achieves this then we have no government for five years until the next vote and so on.

123513 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Biker, 1, #67 of 1659 🔗

Belgium had no government for years, a coalition was formed in March and things have not worked out at all well for the citizens since.

124400 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Strange Days, #68 of 1659 🔗

We’ve had a few Tory/Lib coalitions and they’ve not worked out well either!

123544 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 1, #69 of 1659 🔗

Wot Strange Days said

124450 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Biker, #70 of 1659 🔗

I’ve been saying the same for a long time. Our system hasn’t been fit for purpose for nearly 30 years now.

123632 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to richard riewer, 14, #71 of 1659 🔗

We in Northern Ireland had no government for 2 years until recently.

All because civil servants and their friends filled their boots on an open ended energy scheme which cost taxpayers tens of millions more than it should have. Oh, and the enquiry, which absolved everyone of nay wrong doing or responsibility, cost £13m too.

Now we have the same clowns threatening further lockdowns today. So keep an eye on the announcement here at around 2pm. They are talking tough again. We’ve a worse case per 100,000 rate than the UK as a whole.

My NHS ward here (servicing some 250,000) or there abouts, has had zero deaths since end of May if I remember correctly. Maybe less than 5 hospital admissions over that time also. 20 people approx have died in total.

Speaking to my friend last night brought it all home to me. He has a sister with a rare physiological condition, another diabetic, a brother diabetic and epileptic, a father with bowel cancer in remission. They’ve all been scared to death by this and he hasn’t seen them, except at a distance from the garden, in 6 months. His siblings barely leave the house, his sister hardly leaves her room.

He is on my side and he is fully on board with the kind of analysis Ivor Cummings had in his latest video. Yet, he is struggling to have the courage to simply change the family mindset right now, understandably so. I am so angry they’ve done this to people.

A man in a white coat would need to accompany him to deliver the message that’s its OK to live your life. They are simply so far gone into isolation.

124368 ▶▶ Lili, replying to richard riewer, 1, #72 of 1659 🔗

Love it!

123323 Allen, replying to Allen, 37, #73 of 1659 🔗

From ONS:

In Week 35, the number of deaths registered was 9.6% above the five-year average (791 deaths higher); this is the third consecutive week that weekly deaths have been above the five-year average, however, the rise was not driven by the coronavirus (COVID-19) .

The number of deaths in hospitals was below the five-year average in Week 35, while the number of deaths in private homes, care homes and other locations was above the five-year average.

Hey maybe ask those next logical follow-up questions intrepid reporters.

The entirety of the fiction is unraveling in the eyes of the public hence the even more stringent measures. Right now there is a low simmer.

No such “novel virus” exists. There were novel policies put into place that killed tens of thousands of people, and are killing tens of thousands more.

We need calls for investigations into what actually happened in March-April as well as arrests and trials for subsequent policies enacted by government officials.

All of the academics and scientists who perpetuated this pandemonium to the benefit of their professional lives need to be on the stand testifying. These careerist cowards will turn on one another in a heartbeat and through this process more details of these crimes will emerge.

Follow the money.

123338 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Allen, 10, #74 of 1659 🔗

Ferguson first in the dock, obviously.

123417 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Allen, 10, #75 of 1659 🔗

Pretty hard for deaths in hospitals to be higher than the 5 year average if the NHS is partially shut down.

123636 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stewart, 7, #76 of 1659 🔗

They’ve removed care pathways to such an extent they simply die in their care homes. Rather than an attempt being made to offer treatment at hospital.

123976 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Allen, 8, #77 of 1659 🔗

A Nuremberg Trial for the early 21st Century.

123324 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 12, #78 of 1659 🔗

Talking to a Middle England neighbour yesterday as she waited to go for a family get together at a nearby gastropub. We sniggered about it already being against current advice but that next week 10 people out together would be Illegal and cost them £1,000 rising to £32,000 if they challenged the fine.

She told me of a similar event oop north some weeks ago. All of the party had signed into Track’n’Trace, later her host told her that the restaurant had been shut down because some staff had the Covid at the time.
She is still awaiting contact from Track’n’Trace three weeks later.

123639 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 3, #79 of 1659 🔗

The definition of theatre

123325 BobT, replying to BobT, 61, #80 of 1659 🔗

I am always looking for numbers based facts to try and de-program the Converted.

One of my favourites;
ME: How many people do you think died in UK yesterday?
ME: It was about 1600
That sounds about right.
ME: Yes, that was the total amount of deaths from all causes. How many people do you think died from Covid in UK yesterday?
Erm….dunno, about athousand?
ME: 5
Oh….but…but, what about Granny.

I can talk to them about annual deaths being similar to previous years but that does not sink in. Talking about the likely large number of false positive (infectious) people along with defining what a Case is raises no eyebrows either. Therefore I have been trying to find evidence based simple statistics which I can quote which members of the Cult may understand. King Carl has suggested that the most reliable statistic amongst the whole gamut of, died with or of, unknown actual number of real cases, IFR, CFR, modelling results etcetera is the NHS admissions data. So today, because my business is destroyed and I have nothing else to do, I took a look at the NHS data. (Spreadsheets are my go to cure for boredom so I think I must be a nerd!)
The NHS definition of a Covid patient seems to be accurate;


(This data is from 9-8-2020 and I await their update, but I think its still relevant now)
From the their spreadsheet I found some interesting numbers to attack the Cultists with;

1/ There are 2,223 in ventilator equipped beds of which 56 are occupied by the Covid confirmed, or 2.5%. So there are 2,167 poor buggers in hospital who cannot breathe for other reasons.

2/ There are 94,840 beds occupied of which 599 are Covid patients, or 0.6%. So there are 94,241 people who are well sick from other things and they do not even have the honour of having Covid.

3/ 60 patients with confirmed Covid were admitted on that day and 66 were discharged? Seems like the survival rate is pretty good.

4/ 60,367 staff were absent from work due to sickness or self isolation (or, not mentioned, laziness).

If I am still bored tomorrow, I could look at the rest of the data and make some really funky charts but then I will probably not bother because the Cultist’s beliefs are much stronger than any stupid meaningless graphs.

123329 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BobT, 32, #81 of 1659 🔗

I just keep it to your second question when they start off a chat with >
“Isn’t the Covid terrible…?”
‘How man people do you think died of the Covid yesterday?’
“Dunno 20 ? 50 maybe ?”

(Pregnant pause while this sinks in).

“Where d’you get that from ?”
‘The governments own figures, how many people do you think got run over by a truck yesterday ?’.
And away you go in whatever direction they want to take the conversation.

Hopefully it will get as far as ‘apart from wrecking the economy and millions of lives do you think lockdown is is worth having Democracy suspended and your ancient freedom of Free Assembly made illegal ?’

123344 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to BobT, 3, #82 of 1659 🔗

Great Work – I will print that off!

Look forward to the funky charts – Keep going!

123357 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to BobT, 23, #83 of 1659 🔗

The trouble is Covid belief has become the new world religion, you must fear the Covid devil and obey the big Government that is our only hope. Then just like boys being whipped having been caught paying football on a Sunday in Oliver Cromwell’s time, any Covid doubters must be whipped into line.
Statistics, logic and rational thought are all just tricks of the Covid devil and must be shunned, just bow down and accept Covid belief. I am afraid it looks more and more to me like Covid belief has become a cult religion like the Branch Davidian sect.

123365 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #84 of 1659 🔗

One day it will be seen as a shiboleth.

123370 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #85 of 1659 🔗

And where is that sect now?

123395 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Steve Martindale, 10, #86 of 1659 🔗

There was some newspaper article where the underline thread suggests this is almost becoming a belief system. The idea was sceptics were stepping out of a shared reality, and it was better for society not to seek the truth but to participate in a shared truth even if it is wrong.

Obviously, not aware of the meaning of truth.

123552 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nsklent, 3, #87 of 1659 🔗

That phrase “shared reality” is graunspeak I think.

123565 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 8, #88 of 1659 🔗

A group of people who all take LSD can have a shared reality that is different from everybody else’s shared reality. MSM propaganda is LSD for everybody, bending their old reality into a mind-bending new one.

124660 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Two-Six, #89 of 1659 🔗

We can share a sunset, or a piece of music – but what constitutes ‘sharing’. For me it is relational and has an intimacy that targets, checkboxes and correctness cane NEVER equate to or represent.
Reality as experience is unique to each – and yet we are communicating now – and largely share agreements on the core nature of our model of reality – else we could not communicate – or hardly.
Most of us live in a model of reality that is a mental realm with emotional reactive reinforcement.
Therefore not surprising that some of us think they can control reality by narrative control, or are transhumanly seeking to replace the living context of our experience with systemic controls.
LSD strips away much of the filtering of the mind so as in effect to regress consciousness – which is at the same time the popping of the bubble of what had seemed solid, normal and adapted to.
However, when the effects wear off, the filtering of the mind restores the habits of perception-response.

Group bubbles can be positive, but the nature real relationships is bringing our presence to them, not sacrificing who we are so as to fit what we think or fear the group or other demands or expects us to be.
Masking is not new!

124642 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to karenovirus, #90 of 1659 🔗

Well If it cant be shared its a private reality. Lockstepping can reinforce private agenda as a groupthink bubble but no matter how many invest in it, it only has the reality given it.

Not a few of our problems are the result of weaponising and marketing insights such that what could have served a human benefit are MASKED in as new forms of virtue that become corporate bollockspeak because there is no relational honesty – and so something that belongs to us – such as shared human values – are ‘cancelled’ by presuming to speak for and from ‘shared reality’ – when groupthink is NOTHING of the sort – but is centrally controlled joining in fear, seeking false unity in identifying against the feared.

The use of words can be extremely clever in weaving and framing truth into lies and lies into truths.

I posted this link once but I’ll do so again as it begins to address the ‘framing’ of emotional reaction that is underneath the manipulations that are operating.

123983 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #91 of 1659 🔗


123389 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to BobT, 2, #92 of 1659 🔗

Thank you. I will keep those stats for my next letter to my sluggish MP.

123485 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to BobT, 4, #93 of 1659 🔗

Thanks BobT, and sorry to hear about your business
It amazes me that they still make this data publicly available.
It amazes me even more that there is not one MSM journalist using it.

123953 ▶▶ NickR, replying to BobT, 4, #94 of 1659 🔗

…… what’s more, of the 60 people admitted to hospital 75% of them were already in hospital when they tested positive! These hospital admissions are not people walking down the street who caught the thing, they’re mainly hospital inpatients or people transferred from care homes.

123979 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to NickR, #95 of 1659 🔗

Why are they still using ventilators?

124298 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to richard riewer, 4, #96 of 1659 🔗

They aren’t very much. Don’t forget most of these people who are very ill are not often very ill with Covid, it’s a complicating factor to their primary illness, heart disease, kidney/liver failure, run down by a bus failure, so they may be on a ventilator for reasons completely divorced from their coronavirus positive test.

123330 ted, replying to ted, 7, #97 of 1659 🔗

What can we do? Something has to happen that can change the minds of more people. I would suspect public opinion in the UK is the same as it is in all of the Anglophone world. There is overall among the English language world very widespread support for more and stricter lockdowns. As an example, here is the loony land of California where every fortnight the governor scraps one reopening plan only to issue and even more inane plan than before, nearly 70% of the public supports the imposition of stricter shelter in place rules. And this as the epidemic has been coming down since the end of July. That is an incredibly high number. Politicians read this polling and it absolutely gives them cover to enact every brain fart that comes into their heads over the weekend. Unfortunately, critical thinking is not a capability of the huge percentages of the masses, as we now know. They will only change their views when celebrities of various kinds tell them it is ok to do so. So, I suggest figuring out a way to pressure Tom Hanks or Beyonce into adopting the skeptical position. One idea is to start a go fund me campaign to raise a few million and hire them to be the official spokespeople for this website.

123341 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ted, 3, #98 of 1659 🔗

Perhaps a few episodes of Eastenders in the Time of Covid might put a few people off the whole idea.

123585 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 5, #99 of 1659 🔗

There will be no covid in East Enders, they need to keep their flagship televised SOMA nice and comforting for the sheeple. Casualty on the other hand will be their vehicle for more COVID fear porn on steroids and they will use it to re-enforce their insane evil narrative.

123331 NorthumbrianNomad, 9, #100 of 1659 🔗

Your optimism is touching, Toby, but if they even get given a vote, only the usual suspects will have the guts to vote against the junta, and even if the opposition is bursting to vote down the government, it isn’t going to vote against the lockdown powers.

123334 karenovirus, 19, #101 of 1659 🔗

So what to do about it ?

As a young man in London I had numerous and varied social circles some of which overlapped. While not particularly bolshie, I and many of my friends would routinely ignore rules, regulations or even laws that we considered inconvenient.
Nothing serious, bunking into the open air lido for a bit of skinny dipping after the pub on a summer evening, taking part in pub lockins (oh the irony), attending “Gentlemens Evenings” which were sometimes busted by the fuzz, that sort of thing.

We would all have taken a very dim view of the governments actions over the past six months and would certainly have circumvented their rules whenever necessary.

This ‘Rule of 6’ would have been the last straw that might very well have turned us into outright rebels.
Those among us who were good at that sort of thing could very easily arrange for five groups of six each to enter the local park by different entrances before coalescing (sp?) at the Bandstand to challenge The Covid Marshall
“What you going to do about it ?”
Outside Woolworths at a busy road interchange would have been more visible to the public as would the Town Hall and Library.

On leaving London I chose to be more solitary so no longer have the social resources to do such things, but hey, maybe someone else will and I could tag along.

123336 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #102 of 1659 🔗

Boris’s mass COVID testing moonshot ‘to cost £100BILLION’: PM’s plan to get life back to normal is forecast to cost almost as much as entire NHS budget, and experts warn it may not even be possible

123339 ▶▶ BobT, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 12, #103 of 1659 🔗

I always divide these big numbers by the population and 100Billion is about GBP1,500 per man woman and child. Or, about 6,000 per average family. These people really are in cloud cukoo land.

123343 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #104 of 1659 🔗

Getting a good kicking from the commenters. I like spotting the fakes in the worst voted comments ever since I met a perfectly sound chap who told me he liked to put lefty comments just to see how many red ticks he could get.

Favourite today from Dr Poopenscheister
“All non Covid NHS services should be shut down, we live in extraordinary times, Covid should have priority”.

123989 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, 1, #105 of 1659 🔗

Shyster. Great word.

124013 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, #106 of 1659 🔗

Not my word, his !

123461 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #107 of 1659 🔗

See comments below it

123337 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 5, #108 of 1659 🔗

Who would want to be a Covid Safety Enforcement Marshall ?

I nominate disgruntled Traffic Wardens

123345 ▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to karenovirus, 4, #109 of 1659 🔗

I nominate Dawn Butler.

123349 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 10, #110 of 1659 🔗

I am afraid our country is full of ‘little hitlers’ who will be queuing up to take on this role, there are some who will be keen to go back to a puritan, Calvinistic, Oliver Cromwell world of austerity misery, no pleasure and witch hunts.

123361 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to karenovirus, 4, #111 of 1659 🔗

No one likes a dobber.

123368 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to karenovirus, 13, #112 of 1659 🔗

I suggest we all apply and then go round in covid marshal uniforms informing people of the actual truth 😁

124454 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, #113 of 1659 🔗

Brilliant idea! Trouble is we wouldn’t pass the qualifying psychopath test.

123392 ▶▶ Albie, replying to karenovirus, 8, #114 of 1659 🔗

I can see now how this will play out in the MSM in order to achieve compliance. A Marshall will be physically assaulted somewhere, sympathetic articles ensue from all quarters, the angle taken is that a nasty selfish denier is the perpetrator. The BBC have probably written a template article already.

123483 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Albie, 5, #115 of 1659 🔗

maybe they’ll slip up again and broadcast it before it happens

123597 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to anon, #116 of 1659 🔗


124075 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to anon, #117 of 1659 🔗

Very good.

123540 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to karenovirus, 2, #118 of 1659 🔗

The traffic wardens will be out of work, once all the cars are banned. So makes sense to give them a useless job, where we can all mock them.

123576 ▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, 20, #119 of 1659 🔗

Herr Hancock inspecting the latest batch Covid Safety Enforcement Marshalls

124288 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to karenovirus, 1, #120 of 1659 🔗

Obviously I disagree with the marshalls. But there are huge numbers of unemployed people, many of them blue collar workers for whom Universal Credit means a life of poverty for them and their families.
I’m not even going to engage with them but I do not criticise their choice on this basis.

123342 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 14, #121 of 1659 🔗

Horrific, family thrown off a plane in Canada over their toddlers not wearing masks. Surely it is child abuse to put a mask on a little child?

123347 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 18, #122 of 1659 🔗

It’s just madness. What has happened to common sense? How is it worldwide people like us can see the blatant stupidity of these measures and yet parliamentarians and law makers have got their fingers in their ears not listening but conjuring up their next bloody stunt to make people’s lives even more miserable. And how can businesses not question these stupid, stupid rules and use their own judgement in matters such as in this story.

123348 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 17, #123 of 1659 🔗

So these fiends require masks on three-year-olds. And on screaming babies.
And the other passengers supported this.
How many other little tots were being choked and terrorised on this devils’ flight from hell to hell?

123350 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #124 of 1659 🔗

No Annie, not the screaming baby, just the three year old.

123352 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 4, #125 of 1659 🔗


He [the passenger] says the three-year-old did put on a mask, after some fussing.
“But my younger one had a very difficult time, she was basically hysterical.”
Mr Choudhry says she was so upset she vomited.
He says WestJet was aggressive, and told them that because his youngest daughter was not wearing a mask, and was too upset to wear a mask, the whole family would have to leave.
He says they told them that if they did not leave, they could be arrested, charged and receive prison time.

123359 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 1, #126 of 1659 🔗

Counter quote “the airline said the issue was not with the infant who is below the age required to wear a mask”

This is going to get messy !♤

123601 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 3, #127 of 1659 🔗

Screeming Babies and collaborators and shaved women. I know a song about that, I know you won’t like it. It’s a horrible tune.

123351 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 9, #128 of 1659 🔗

And Then airline industry is worried about falling passenger numbers, surely by now the airline industry as a whole should have come up with a policy so the position is clear to all. It is as though facemasks have become a symbol that you conform, like the costumes in A Handmaids Tale.

123353 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #129 of 1659 🔗

That’s exactly what they are, except for the voodoo fanatics who believe that they confer personal immunity on the wearer.

123356 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #130 of 1659 🔗

I don’t know why they don’t let passengers use the emergency masks if they want to be muzzled to feel ‘safe’ and let every body else who doesn’t give a crap fly face naked. Surely it couldn’t be that difficult to modify a plane.

123360 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #131 of 1659 🔗

Sadly I think you are right Steve. And if they were told to wear undies on their head I fear they would do it. And tell me why your Hancock and our Dan Andrews are the most gormless looking pair of blokes I have seen.

123369 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Girl down Under, 4, #132 of 1659 🔗

Because they probably both got bullied at school for being knobs/saps/dorks.

123374 ▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to karenovirus, 7, #133 of 1659 🔗

And then decided to punish THE WORLD. Will I ever see beautiful England again. Can’t even fly to another state at the moment.

123422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Girl down Under, 14, #134 of 1659 🔗

Sorry to break it too you but in the last thirty years, since the last true PM of this country Mrs Thatcher they’ve done everything to destroy England and Britain. We’re at the point now where to even say you’re English or British is deemed racist. In every town across this once green and pleasant land they’ve they’ve destroyed everything they can and this Virus bullshit is the Last Night of the Proms as far as Britain and England go. Hey ho Rule Britannia.

123645 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Biker, 8, #135 of 1659 🔗

Such a shame, Biker. My parents were £10 poms and went through WW2. They only managed to go back once in 2010. I think it was a very strange experience for them. I am so proud of them and my English heritage. What they went through in the war, half starved as kids, but it made them resilient and tough, and we were brought up with a great work ethic and honest values. They don’t understand any of what is going on at the moment, addicted to the crap that masquerades as news and terrified out of their wits. All our lovely old darlings who suffered so much even after the war with rationing continuing etc and they are left bewildered and many alone to die. It’s a damn disgrace.

124035 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Girl down Under, 2, #136 of 1659 🔗

My Aus relatives also started as £10 Poms, they never did make it back but their eldest daughter stayed with us in London for 6 months 1970, followed one by one by 4 younger siblings.

One of their offspring caught up with me a few years ago. That young man made the mistake of asking me “do all whiskies taste the same, like Bourbon ?”

Don’t suppose any of us will be visiting for a while to come yet, but at least they are in NSW and not Victoria that heart of lockdown darkness.

124835 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to karenovirus, 1, #137 of 1659 🔗

Yes, kareno lots of young Aussies like their bourbon 😆 (was) so much easier and cheaper to travel in the 2000’s as well. Don’t think it will be once this is over somehow. The media seem to be getting a lot more critical of the lockdowns even in the last 24 hours. The PM rang the Qld premier to request compassion for some poor lass who was too late to see her dying dad (because of all the red tape). Not allowed to go to funeral only to see his body on her own all rugged up in PPE. The premier accused the PM of bullying her.

123999 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, 1, #138 of 1659 🔗

Attila the Hen.

123378 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 10, #139 of 1659 🔗

I posted last week that WestJet were mandating masks for children over 2 – it is nothing short of child abuse.

123612 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 5, #140 of 1659 🔗

It really is child abuse. I cannot imagine strapping a mask on a 3 year old who is screaming and trying to tear it off. Just thinking about doing that makes me feel sick.

124000 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sarigan, 4, #141 of 1659 🔗

Boycott them. Put them out of business. I hope their employees sue them.

123496 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 19, #142 of 1659 🔗

This is actually a good news story.
Reading the piece to the end, the flight was abandoned because the attitude of the passengers, supportive of the family and hostile to the crew and police, made the crew feel that it was unsafe to continue.

123615 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #143 of 1659 🔗

Phew. at least the sheeple didn’t clap and cheers like they did on the easy jet flight full of Brainwashed psychotic Britts.

123559 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 3, #144 of 1659 🔗

This isn’t the first of these. There was another similar incident in the US a month or so ago. Can’t find the link, but it may have the same airline.

123571 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 5, #145 of 1659 🔗

so what happens when everyone on the plane is wearing a mask and then there is an emergency and the oxygen masks are deployed. Are you allowed to remove your useless covid mask.? is that an offence? do you have to wear both masks? or will they not deploy the oxygen masks on the basis that the covid masks are obviously so brilliant they will save you from everything

123919 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 3, #146 of 1659 🔗

It’s getting driven and pushed through by this bunch:


They are WEF and UN compromised when your dad the bios of their CEO, and ambassadors.

On their letter to Governments they list some companies who supposedly signed it.

I’m currently writing to some of the signatories asking them if they are willing participants in this suicide note of the travel and tourism industry or ignorant dupes.


Look at the list.

124468 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #147 of 1659 🔗

Yikes! All those “New Normals” .

123996 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheshirecatslave, #148 of 1659 🔗

Oh Canada!

123346 karenovirus, 31, #149 of 1659 🔗

Government Policy remains completely wrong, the bold thing to do would be take every measure to increase Herd Immunity among fit and healthy young people by encouraging them to mix and mingle as much possible, bring back live music, raves, mosh pits.
Promote promiscuous hedonistic lifestyle choices. Open all sporting activity asap especially those with close body contact.

Not much chance of the vulnerable getting involved in any of the above but that behaviour will bring them (me) protection in the future.

Instead the Boris’n’Dom show persist in what can only be called Appeasement in the face of this rapidly declining threat.

123358 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 9, #150 of 1659 🔗


RT-shock,horror,reds-under-the-beds -provides some welcome sanity.

And , despite not being a religious person, I suspect that St John The Divine nailed it:

“This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, because it is the number of a person. Its number is 666.”

He had a terrifying vision and saw Hancock.

123371 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to wendyk, 2, #151 of 1659 🔗

Out of interest anyone aware of what’s going on in Russia re:Corona now?? We obviously got a rush of patronising news when they announced their (probably placebo) vaccine but nothing since as far as I have seen… Are they, as a nation presumably more used to restrictions and surveillance (tho fuck knows what to believe anymore) bothering with restrictions on life still or has their vaccine freed them as we’re all promised one will?

123387 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark II, 1, #152 of 1659 🔗

From the little I’ve read, they seem to be more relaxed about the terror, being ,as you rightly say, accustomed to purges, surveillance ,propaganda and gulags etc. (The latter might be on Hancock’s To-Do list)



Links from either side of the ideological divide about Russia’s vaccine trials; all I could find.

123524 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to wendyk, 3, #153 of 1659 🔗

I don’t know about Russia but cases where people are hospitalised are rising in Hungary. I believe they’ve had a pretty strict lockdown and masks.

123582 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark II, 3, #154 of 1659 🔗

A young Saudi woman (no mask, no veil) was telling me that most of her family at home had caught the Covid (harsh lockdown, intergenerational family in an apartment) but were all fully recovered.

I described the mistreatment of Piers Corbyn by the stasi.
‘But that is the way of the police…’
“It might be in your country not it’s not what we’re used to”.
‘Yes it is a shame for you’.

123372 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to wendyk, 2, #155 of 1659 🔗

Great article Wendyk. I feel the need to bombard all the news services with these stories. I bet they would never make it through the censorship boffins.

123521 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to wendyk, 5, #156 of 1659 🔗

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

123587 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #157 of 1659 🔗

” As I looked, there was a pale horse, and its rider’s name was Death. Hades followed along behind him. They were given authority over a quarter of the earth, to kill with the sword, and with famine, and with death”

The Hancock /Ferguson handbook in biblical writ.

123630 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendyk, 4, #158 of 1659 🔗

The people quarantined on the Diamond Princess cruise ship in Japan were picked up from an airport by coaches from a company called “Horseman” coaches. I think they were having little in joke back then with us…There were four coaches.

123362 FatBastardMcKenzie, replying to FatBastardMcKenzie, 13, #159 of 1659 🔗

Regarding this link: https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/09-09-2020-covid-19-could-reverse-decades-of-progress-toward-eliminating-preventable-child-deaths-agencies-warn

Let’s just make absolutely clear for the cheap seats at the back: THIS IS DUE TO LOCKDOWNS NOT COVID-19

Jesus wept.

123367 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to FatBastardMcKenzie, 13, #160 of 1659 🔗

Indeed, it is the policies that have caused the problems worldwide, not a virus. And yet mainstream media constantly refer to ‘covid’s caused this, or covid’s done that’ etc. Drives me insane. As silly as saying a car caused a speeding accident. So why then isn’t the car sent to gaol for killing people. I do jest, sorry. I do feel so much better when I have had my daily news from LS and reading all your comments.

123364 Will, replying to Will, 2, #161 of 1659 🔗

I have been trying to find the graph Whitty used which apparently showed the percentage of age groups testing positive had increased. No luck so far, any help would be appreciated.

124522 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Will, #162 of 1659 🔗

Try the weekly report from the PHE, always on a thursday evening. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/weekly-covid-19-surveillance-report-published

123373 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 24, #163 of 1659 🔗

Was trying to look at the link on the DM for the piss-taking images of what our new COVID Marshalls might look like but with all the adverts popping up it was impossible.

I did see however, the mention of Environmental Health Officers being drafted in for the role. And that, as a coffee shop owner, fills me with dread. During my last inspection I was told, in all seriousness, that I should be careful not to overdo items of food that are toasted because doing so may produce a cancer-causing compound. I think we did take the piss at the time and suggest that, perhaps, we should have a colour chart of ‘safe’ toasting. Now, every time a customer asks for crumpets to be “cremated” I issue the EHO warning, we both have a right laugh about it and I proceed to cremate the crumpets.

Oh, it’s going to be fun (NOT).

123377 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to kh1485, 10, #164 of 1659 🔗

I am imagining a high viz vest with ‘I AM A DICKHEAD’ written in bold letters on the back.

123396 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 5, #165 of 1659 🔗
123397 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 4, #166 of 1659 🔗

Be prepared kh; the 2020 Environmental Health bods are on their way.

123404 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to wendyk, 4, #167 of 1659 🔗

Oh no WendyK, don’t give the powers that be any ideas or we will all be having to wear one 😆

123445 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #168 of 1659 🔗

wendyk, you may jest, but their get-up isn’t that far removed from that!

123517 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 2, #169 of 1659 🔗

Just as I suspected kh.

124012 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to wendyk, 1, #170 of 1659 🔗

It’s a Science. And you can get a degree in just a couple of weeks.

123553 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to wendyk, 15, #171 of 1659 🔗

this is the marshall’s outfit – for safety in all circumstances.. and because they will be dickheads

123594 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to mjr, 2, #172 of 1659 🔗

Fantastic mjr!

123408 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to kh1485, 13, #173 of 1659 🔗

Leaked photos of new Covid Marshall’s uniforms with matching coin bag for the “twenty shillings a town”, fee

123456 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #174 of 1659 🔗

Very apt. Our town has links to Oliver Cromwell …

123783 ▶▶ Simon, replying to kh1485, 8, #175 of 1659 🔗

The Hitler youth image somewhere on this page is probably pretty accurate.

123375 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 9, #176 of 1659 🔗

Posted this yesterday, but the guy they had on LBC around teatime yesterday said that the PCR testing was targeted towards known contacts of the already infected. That means that to add to the fallibility of the tests themselves we are seeing the results of a highly biased sample each day.
Does anyone else have anything on this?

123451 ▶▶ Will, replying to Bill Hickling, 1, #177 of 1659 🔗

The ONS statistics tomorrow will be interesting.

123605 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bill Hickling, 2, #178 of 1659 🔗

Creates a self perpetuating cycle of cases.

123887 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bill Hickling, 3, #179 of 1659 🔗

It’s a key point to make. Because the overall blanket policy approach is based on cases per 100,000. Which includes you.

So because a small related group have infected each other, they then use this to justify locking the full local population down.

It’s like a bar not observing opening hours leading to all bars in the city being closed to prevent it happening again.

Never mind these people are being screened using unfit PCR tests anyway, and that they are almost exclusively not going to be ill enough for hospital

123376 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 12, #180 of 1659 🔗

Gosh, it must be a blue moon tonight, GMB (without Piers Morgan today) saying that the rules are so complicated people “will” (not going as far as “should”) just do what they think is right to protect themselves and others. Yes, GMB, it’s called exercising individual discretion, what we adults should be doing all the time.

123380 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Gillian, 13, #181 of 1659 🔗

By the way, UK Column news has been saying for a while, repeated yesterday, that the rules are deliberately complicated to confuse people. Mass confusion increases mass fear. It’s part of the psych-op. If true, surely such deliberate action is the crime of treason.

123401 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian, 19, #182 of 1659 🔗

Classic torture techniques. All of this has been in the script and timetable since day 1 and while we have all been sitting at home distracted the police have been training and are now chomping at the bit to get amongst us.

Interesting piece on UK column yesterday that the partners, wives/husbands of police officers have reported a change in behaviour, aggression and attitude.

Policy in NZ and Australia have been the model.

This has never been about a virus.

123620 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gillian, 7, #183 of 1659 🔗

Solzhenitsyn described the technique, gulag prisoners forced to move piles of rocks with their bare hands across the parade ground for no apparent reason.
Then made to carry them back again.

123462 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Gillian, 7, #184 of 1659 🔗

Morgan was predictably cheering the latest draconian news in a tweet last night but surprisingly his followers were in disagreement with him. I’d say 9 in 10 of the 100 or so replies I read gave him a kicking.

123518 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Albie, 7, #185 of 1659 🔗

Morgan has backed the wrong horse in all this. He’s an idiot.

123588 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Gillian, 3, #186 of 1659 🔗

I really hoping that others at ITV have smelt blood in the water!

123379 snippet, 3, #187 of 1659 🔗

Handcuffs, muzzle, prison.

123381 snippet, 22, #188 of 1659 🔗

The only way out of this is for mass civil disobedience to make it impossible to police.

123382 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #189 of 1659 🔗
123383 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 83, #190 of 1659 🔗

During yesterday’s laughable press conference Alexander Johnson (I agree with Peter Hitchens that we should stop calling him Boris), said “as your Prime Minister” Well, Mr Johnson, as far as I am concerned, you no longer represent me. The fluffing up of your blonde mop is no longer funny and the Wodehousian old buffer routine no longer fools.

I suspect you no longer represent those people who lent you their votes either. I hope to god that someone comes up with a new political party that represents the parts of this country left behind: the grafters; the middle-Englanders; the ones concerned about law and order; the ones at their wits’ end because they are concerned about their livelihoods; the ones who want conviction politicians who stick to something called principles and the many, many more who look on in despair at what you and your cohorts have done to this country.

123388 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to kh1485, 16, #191 of 1659 🔗

Well said, KH and can you clone one for us down here at the same time. Someone who actually has the courage of their convictions. Sadly, Tony Abbott was the only good one after John Howard, and he is pilloried by the media as a misogynist, and a homophobe. 3 daughters, adores his gay sister and his chief of staff was Peta Credlin who anchors a Sky current affairs program. The most tolerant and upstanding member of my community.

123407 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Girl down Under, 3, #192 of 1659 🔗

Sounds like your loss is our gain. Despite the best efforts of the hysteria mob, I think he managed to get the job here as some sort of trade envoy.

123426 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to kh1485, 4, #193 of 1659 🔗

And he is doing it at no cost to the taxpayer from either UK or Australia. Handles himself very well in bushfire and surf lifesaving scenarios also.

123390 ▶▶ Richard, replying to kh1485, 35, #194 of 1659 🔗


Seems to me they have reached the breaking point – Telegraph and Mail seem to have gone largely sceptical and comments are mostly absolutely fuming.

Think penny is now dropping that unless the fight back starts we are into the world of health passports and mandatory vaccination

Walked bare faced into Petrol station yesterday – guy politely said this is retail setting so please can you wear mask – said o am exempt and he was fine. Then said we have more and more people who just can’t be bothered – I hope this is spreading !

123393 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard, 11, #195 of 1659 🔗

Well why doesn’t the guy stop asking people.

123427 ▶▶▶▶ Richard, replying to stefarm, 15, #196 of 1659 🔗

Sadly I think he is a believer – was masked up and when I said I was sympathetic to the non maskers and that that masks did more harm than good you could sense the fury !

123391 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 6, #197 of 1659 🔗

Agreed kh; no opposition worth its salt up here, although there are a few-very few-hopeful signs.

124638 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to wendyk, 3, #198 of 1659 🔗

Nigel Farage, though bloody useless on Covid so far, yesterday seemed to be turning against the government (perhaps testing the water)? – see first 5 mins, particularly from 4 mins in. ‘We cannot close the whole country down…’
This could really help. The Tories fear Farage more than anyone. If he becomes a full lockdown sceptic, then the currently AWOL invisible Tory MPs will have to move to his position if they don’t want their party to dramatically shed support.
Perhaps worth emailing Farage and the Brexit Party (and probably more responsive than most MPs) with your scepticism and facts. Let’s reel him in.

124947 ▶▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to James Bertram, #199 of 1659 🔗

anyone got his contact details???

123402 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 79, #200 of 1659 🔗

Just to add to this.

A sad vignette that reduced me to tears (partly sadness and partly rage at what is being done). I referred to this a few weeks ago when one of our regular customers called to ask if I would prepare some takeaway food for her and her husband. He has been rendered wheel-chair bound by the lockdown and she cannot manoevure his wheel chair to get to the shop. She said she wanted a bit of “normality”. I said I would, gladly.

Yesterday she came in and told me how he was now a shadow of his former self (he was quite an imposing man) and had lost a substantial amount of weight and then she added, and this is what caused me to well up “but then I have too” and the look of resigned sadness in her eyes will live with me for a long time. This lady is sparrow-like, the skin was hanging from her bones (this is no exaggeration) and I just felt so, so sad for her. She added that she was trying to get some respite care because it was difficult for her to cope. I asked where her husband was and she said he was in the car. Their bit of “normality” was to have some sandwiches and drinks, sat in their car in the car park.

This is what this government has done, not the virus. It has taken (as others mentioned here yesterday), the simple pleasures that make life a bit better for most of us (the trip to a cafe; the knitandnatter, church services etc. etc.). It has rendered people, once fit and active, shadows of their former selves and placed their loved ones under unbearable strain. Policitians: you are a disgrace.

123412 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to kh1485, 18, #201 of 1659 🔗

They are protected in their ivory towers and need TO HEAR THESE STORIES.

123418 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Girl down Under, 8, #202 of 1659 🔗

Sorry not shouting at you kh, it makes my blood boil.

123425 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Girl down Under, 17, #203 of 1659 🔗

Exactly. I wasn’t sure whether to post that or not but it made me so damned angry. And at the same time, I looked around at other customers, oblivious to everything that they are losing (don’t get me wrong, I am glad of the custom) but where’s the anger, where’s the resistance?

I’ve posted on here many times about analogies to what’s going on: ‘Stepford Wives’; ‘One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest’ and yesterday I was reminded of the great Joe Walsh song – “The Band Played On” It’s like that, we can all see the bloody iceberg, but the vast majority just carry on as though everything is ‘normal’.

123640 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to kh1485, 5, #204 of 1659 🔗

It’s good to get these stories out. That’s why sites like this are so important. I believe every single action of alerting people to what is really going on, will make a difference. It’s clear that we all have days when we think what’s the point? But then they win

123458 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 22, #205 of 1659 🔗

Very sad to hear this. Its not the virus that’s done this to people, its lockdown and social distancing.

This story should be circulated far and wide to demonstrate what is really going on in the real world and not in the la-la land of the shires and posh parts of the big cities.

The politicians have blood on their hands and the lockdownistas are collaborators.

Never forgive, never forget.

124054 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #206 of 1659 🔗

The shires are la-la land ?

123560 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to kh1485, 6, #207 of 1659 🔗

Totally agree kh. I have 2 elderly lonely widowed friends with health conditions that have suffered and suffered in a country that is now unrecognisable.

123755 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 6, #208 of 1659 🔗

My widowed mum would have survived Covid but hated lockdown. I’d been doing her big shop for some years but every day she would walk to her small shops, as much to bump into her friends as to buy things.

123780 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 10, #209 of 1659 🔗

I’m convinced my late mum would have been destroyed by this, that’s the only crumb of comfort I have that she is not here.

It’s odd, although it’s the very frail and elderly who are most at risk they are the ones, I have found, who least want all this. Sure, they wear the face mask, but as soon as you tell them it’s not a requirement of coming into our shop, they can’t get the things off fast enough.

Just been sweeping the pavement outside my house and an elderly lady was walking past. I moved out of her way (not in an anti-social-distancing way, but in the normal polite way you would make way for someone) and she wasn’t swerving or going bonkers. She just said “thank you”, smiled and walked past. Sad that such an ordinary day to day exchange should be so noteworthy.

123858 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 8, #210 of 1659 🔗

I feel sorry for the elderly who wear masks when they’re obviously in distress and discomfort. The look of relief on their faces back in the day when I could tell them that they didn’t need to wear them always would make me want to blink back tears.

What are we doing?

123895 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to kh1485, 4, #211 of 1659 🔗

That is beyond sad. I feel so bad for those two, and angry at those who have tortured them so

123466 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to kh1485, 5, #212 of 1659 🔗

Yes agree with Hitch, matey nicknames no longer fit the man. A guy restricting liberty in such wanton manner is nobodies mate. Covid the WHO name makes me squirm as well. We should follow the US Reps and use China Virus, or more fairly CCP Virus.

123932 ▶▶ John Ballard, replying to kh1485, 4, #213 of 1659 🔗

lifelong conservative as are the rest of the family….next time I will vote Labour, not as they are any use or would be any better, but its about the only way I can do anything to show how much I hate boris, hancock and the rest of them.

123998 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John Ballard, 3, #214 of 1659 🔗

Me too. But I cannot, in all conscience, vote for anyone as things stand (I know, we’ve got four long years before we get another chance, but I won’t forget nor forgive, as Mark has said previously).

Perhaps, if the Monster Raving Loony Party stood a candidate here, I might consider them or perhaps, as was mentioned on this page, the SDP.

124199 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, #215 of 1659 🔗

With elections suspended what happens in the event of a death of an honorable member?

124007 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to John Ballard, 4, #216 of 1659 🔗

My current voting intention is to spoil my paper.

124197 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Edward, #217 of 1659 🔗

None of the above, thank you.

124017 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to John Ballard, 9, #218 of 1659 🔗

You’re assuming we will get to vote again, at any point. I believe the Trilateral Commission has stated somewhere – they believe in [basically] removing the ability of citizens to participate in democracy, just let the ruling elites get on with it.

Donald Trump I’m pretty sure has previously said something to the effect, ‘they don’t hate me, they hate you. I’m just in the way.’

123384 Sprinter, 3, #219 of 1659 🔗

This is the number of positive tests as a percentage of overall test. Flat line….
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&year=latest&time=2020-04-08 ..2020-09-03&country=~GBR&region=World&positiveTestRate=true&interval=smoothed&hideControls=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

123385 Mr Dee, 21, #220 of 1659 🔗

I’ve finally written my letter to my MP, inspired by the first part of today’s summary – thanks Toby!

Here it is, in case anyone wants to cut, paste and adapt:

Dear Mrs Atherton MP,

Sir Charles Walker, the Vice Chairman of the influential Conservative 1922 committee of MPs, has recently slammed the new restrictions on social gatherings saying he would vote to “curtail” the Government’s powers.

I quote from the Telegraph:

The changes will impose a legal limit on gatherings in private homes, parks, pubs and restaurants and will come into force in England on Monday.
Sir Charles argued that ministers needed to come to the Commons and “win the argument” on policies, admitting he was “increasingly uncomfortable” about the way the Government was running.
He said: “I am incredibly exercised about the continued use by the Government of powers that we granted it six months ago admittedly, to basically restrict people’s civil liberties without any recourse back to Parliament.
“Now these powers are due to be reviewed at the end of September, or the beginning of October, and hopefully there will be another vote on them.
“And I will be voting – if given the chance to vote in this rather strange Parliament – to curtail the Government’s powers in his area.”

Could you please tell me whether or not you agree with Sir Charles? If you disagree, could you please tell me why?

I’ve contacted you before to congratulate you on your stance opposing the 5-mile restriction that continued in Wales long after the English restrictions had ceased. My family and I are currently politically homeless, aghast at the way the hysteria caused by this pandemic has been mismanaged and indeed stoked by all parties. We are of the firm belief that now, with the Covid-19 death rate and hospitalisation rate all but vanished in the UK, and the threat of a second wave vanquished, we need to “Keep Calm and Carry On” in order to get the UK back on its feet, not impose more draconian restrictions. This country needs MPs with a strength of character, such as Sir Charles and yourself, to hold the Government to account and help steer the UK away from the rocks.

Yours sincerely …

123386 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 5, #221 of 1659 🔗

So it is confirmed now that we will be using “Digital Immunity Passports.”

“People will be given digital immunity passports that would allow those who test negative to take part in more normal activities.”


123431 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, 8, #222 of 1659 🔗

Another ‘conspiracy theory’ proved correct. The information is all out there .The ultimate aim is you have a tattoo embedded in your skin with all your vaccine history and it can be scanned so you can partake of ‘normal life’.This has to be the aim because testing of itself doesn’t prove anything.I could be infected after I took my test so unless you are continually tested throughout the day it wouldn’t even work on its own terms.

123506 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #223 of 1659 🔗

they want a micro chip in you

123394 Andrew Fish, replying to Andrew Fish, 4, #224 of 1659 🔗

Finally, a political party is prepared to speak out.


123411 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Andrew Fish, 4, #225 of 1659 🔗

I saw William Clouston being interviewed on talkRADIO the other day and he came across very well. Don’t recall seeing them on the ballot paper in this neck of the woods. Perhaps that might change. We certainly need an alternative.

123674 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #226 of 1659 🔗

Was hoping they would finally come out as sceptics

124520 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #227 of 1659 🔗

Given that Labour is even more strongly lockdown than the Tories, it would give the SDP an clear identity.

123398 davews, replying to davews, 5, #228 of 1659 🔗

“the rules are simple to understand”. Reading the updated guidance (guidance, not law) that Toby linked to to try and work out whether the heritage walk I have booked on next week is allowed. Meetings of 30 are still allowed in churches and community groups. But it says nothing about a group of people outside say on a ramble or in my case wandering around the town looking at historic buildings. I suspect it is within the law, but rather think the organiser will pull the event as anybody who questions us will be hard to convince.

And what really is this project Moonshot the BBC have as lead story today?

123400 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to davews, 15, #229 of 1659 🔗

If it’s a project to banish Matt Hancock to the moon then I’m all for it.

123428 ▶▶ matt, replying to davews, 1, #230 of 1659 🔗

Sorry – where are the rules linked? I can’t find them and I want to show a friend who is wondering whether he has to cancel a ‘community group’ event next week (and I want to read them myself)

123441 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to davews, 6, #232 of 1659 🔗

The word Moonshot intrigues me. I first heard it a few weeks ago in conjunction with Tony Blair – so I associate it with him. Is it one of his ideas perhaps?

Anyway, I found this article from 2017 which seeks to explain the term:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-is-a-moonshot_b_59ace5abe4b0c50640cd6096 ?

“A Moonshot (10x improvement), in contrast, can’t be achieved by working harder alone.
You have to start with a clean sheet of paper and be willing to try seemingly crazy ideas.
You have to keep writing down crazy ideas until you find one that doesn’t actually seem so crazy. Don’t forget that “the day before something is truly a breakthrough, it’s a crazy idea.”

This ties in with Cummings’ plea from about a year ago, where he was seeking ‘weirdos’ and ‘geeks’. So an idea of his also?

It sounds quite cultish though – there’s something New Agey and sinister to the word.

“Have you had your Moonshot this month, Mrs Jones?”

“Yeeeerrrrshhhh.” (Drooool)

123444 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #233 of 1659 🔗

I suspect it goes back to the space race in the 1960s. JFK saw getting a man on the moon as a vital project for American prestige and, given the American proclivity for shooting at things, the etymology would definitely fit.

123446 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #234 of 1659 🔗

Just checked and the terms dates to 1958, so right at the beginning of the space race.

123637 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #235 of 1659 🔗

But what has that got to do with a vaccine? Why call it Project Moonshot? It’s not a word they’ve just plucked out of a bag. There must be some psychological reason for choosing this word. At face value, Project Moonshot just sounds bizarre.

123707 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #236 of 1659 🔗

As someone said on here yesterday, it’s a newish and seldom-used word otherwise, so easy for all the government trolls to scan social media for – ie to find where people are discussing it and shut non-compliant discourse down..

123749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Carrie, #237 of 1659 🔗

Mmm… interesting. Thanks Carrie.

124214 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #238 of 1659 🔗

Moonshine calls it, apparently wankcock got laughed at by Labour while introducing it to the commons.

123478 ▶▶ annie, replying to davews, 4, #239 of 1659 🔗

Boris is worried about a possible shortage of green cheese.

123399 Biker, replying to Biker, 112, #240 of 1659 🔗

For the life of me i can’t understand how anyone can support these lockdown crimes against our civil liberties. They just don’t have the right. I pray some of the old school 1922 tories make a stand. It’s time for Boris and his corrupt henchmen to be gone. They can’t keep doing this to us. They can’t be allowed force vaccinations and testing on us and they can’t force these so called digital passports and all that surveillance. It’s my life and i have the right to go about my business not harming anyone else without being spied on or asked to show my papers or barred from using public services i’ve paid for because i’ve not taken some dodgy vaccine made by a man who isn’t a scientist and went to jeffery Epsteins peso island. I’m not against vaccines, i had my kids vaccinated and i’ve been vaccinated but can’t these mother fuckers see how sinister the whole thing is.
I feel we have two choices here, either these 1922 committee and others make a stand in parliament maybe some kind of sit in protest or we take to the streets like the Poll Tax/ iraq war demos and stay there until this is stoped. Toby’s mates in the Telegraph and other such esteemed organs need to be printing this sort of stuff on there front page. A call to arms for those of us who want our country back and don’t want to be governed by a “scientific elite” who seem to think because the’ve a degree and a fucking bunsen burner, a note pad and a model done on an old Apple Mac they can toy with out lives forever. I’m the one that’s got to die when it’s my time so i’m the one who gets to decide how i live not these people. The way it stands at the moment it’s like they’re gonna force us to take up an armed revolution and hang these bastards from lampposts. I wonder how the woke diverse police are gonna cope when there are five million people on the streets of London demanding their freedom. I can hardly believe i’m saying this in our country but we are no different that China in the governments total and utter disregard for the sanctity of the individual. I think Boris should be very ashamed and his father needs to give him a good fucking slap.

123403 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Biker, 6, #241 of 1659 🔗

Biker, at least China tell you it to your face

123430 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Biker, 3, #242 of 1659 🔗

Liberty piping up is huge, is it not?

123447 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Biker, 15, #243 of 1659 🔗

I think we need to hit people the old fashioned way with mass letter box drops. Perhaps someone more lucid than myself could put together something we can download ourselves and print off at home to distribute to our neighbourhoods and suburbs depending on how energetic we feel. In Victoria they could only do a 5km radius and I would be worried about police raids on homes if the police got a snifter. We need to get round all these censorships that are taking place and the only way I can see is by the old fashioned letterbox. Happy to do my bit where I live and then some. We need to bring this on worldwide if we want to get our liberties back.

123452 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Girl down Under, 8, #244 of 1659 🔗

One of my old schoolfriends on Facebook received something of the ilk through his letterbox yesterday. It touched on the Gates conspiracy (which I think is something of a mistake) but it mostly stuck to the evidence. He shared it on FB, but whether many people will read it I don’t know. Some people commented that it was too long, which suggests you need something short and snappy to get through to people. Our friend at Lockdown Truth may have something that fits the bill.

123460 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #245 of 1659 🔗

So true Andrew, even if we can just point people to look at Lockdown Sceptic perhaps. I’m not on Facebook (old dinosaur), but I gather it is fairly regulated. I’m frustrated that a lot of people are only being served msm etc and taking it all in as gospel.

123467 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Girl down Under, 5, #246 of 1659 🔗

To be honest, I’m only on Facebook because it’s an easy way to keep in touch with my nephew. I rarely post anything personally (used to do the odd theatre review back in the days we had theatre).

123476 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Andrew Fish, 6, #247 of 1659 🔗

Aah yes, the theatre – in the good old days!

124018 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Girl down Under, 3, #248 of 1659 🔗

The Facebook group Save Our Rights UK is getting a bit more intelligent than it was at the start. It used to be mainly a lot of ranting about masks, and even though I agreed with the conclusions there wasn’t much logical argument on display. However it’s getting better in that respect.

123515 ▶▶ snippet, replying to Biker, 9, #249 of 1659 🔗

Agree with going old school. Anonymous letterbox drops are much harder to track than online. Something that sticks to the facts without conspiracy theories is really important.

123820 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to snippet, 4, #250 of 1659 🔗

May have been one time, but with loads of houses having CCTV and Ring doorbell systems the anonymity is long gone. Although our arch nemesis, the mask, will help to protect us from identification.

124682 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to JohnB, 1, #251 of 1659 🔗

That’s when a mask IS useful.

124369 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to snippet, #252 of 1659 🔗

wankcock has already gone old school. His Lockdown London Dictat will be via Myspace; hoping nobody notices him tossing off to Cute Cat vids.

123602 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 18, #253 of 1659 🔗

Yes, but where are the five million going to come from? I don’t know anyone outside my own household who hasn’t swallowed this bollocks all the way.

Maybe Great Britain is just done. As a society we don’t deserve to get out of this. The truth is, most of the people in his country deserve what they are getting because they won’t stand up to it.

Why am I still the only one walking through Morrisons and Tescos unmuzzled, and the only one dropping my child off at school unmuzzled?

Pathetic and pitiful.

123648 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to TJN, 12, #254 of 1659 🔗

There will be no 5 million people on the streets..Maybe if you cancelled EastEnders and Love island on the same day but not for anything else.. 99% of the people are brainwashed sheep..Look at the London protest..35.000..that is fucking abysmal..London has 9 million people..If Arsenal played fucking Stoke tomorrow in the 3rd round of the Carabo cup there would be 70000 people no problem..Nobody cares, nobody want to do anything..Democracy does not die with a scream , but with a whisper.

124165 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Thomas_E, 7, #255 of 1659 🔗

It was nothing like 35,000, maybe 5,000. We occupied 1/2 of Trafalgar Square, an area of about 3,500m2. Maybe 2 people /m2? You try & get 10 people in a phone box, that’s about 1m2!
But I think a march with a libertarian theme rather than the conspiracy crowd could do well.

124302 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Thomas_E, 4, #256 of 1659 🔗

Unless and until the money runs out and/or people start dying because of their vaccinations, or a real scandal came out or took place that shakes the now firmly established firm beliefs of the crowd at their core (e.g. masks do increase Corona infections, and they knew it; vaccines against Corona ARE indeed completely unnecessary for 90% of the people, and they know it; HCQ does work, and they knew it), there is little hope for a change of mind, neither for a change of course.

124553 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Thomas_E, #257 of 1659 🔗

I don’t agree. The problem is that most people probably didn’t know about it.

It’s very difficult to communicate in mockdown and while facebook and twitter are so heavily censored, it’s difficult to successfully advertise such gatherings.

123913 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Biker, 3, #258 of 1659 🔗

On point Biker, as always!

124048 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, 1, #259 of 1659 🔗

A good slap upside his head.

123406 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 9, #260 of 1659 🔗

Many in these comments are puzzled by the apparent inability of the British public to think for themselves and escape from the fear trap. The answer is that they have been brainwashed. The Government deliberately chose fear based brainwashing tactics in launching ‘Project Fear On Steroids’. You can start to find out about it here:


Here are some sample quotes from the SPI-B documents:

Government persuasion through fear A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened.
The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging .


In our efforts to persuade people we are trying to overcome this massive government brainwashing effort.

Are there any applied psychologists out there who can help us to focus our response?

123410 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Basileus, 9, #261 of 1659 🔗

The whole public does not need to be brainwashed. Only about 10%. What happens is theses fundamentalists push their views and most others go along to get along. In the end the society becomes more fundamentalist.

123414 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to mhcp, 3, #262 of 1659 🔗

Exactly. 10-15% for, 10-15% against, 70-80% sheep that just go along with whatever.

123457 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to mhcp, 5, #263 of 1659 🔗

Herd stupidity! You don’t need 100% of people to be stupid, just some to be so and if the rest are passive then that is sufficient.

123474 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to mhcp, 3, #264 of 1659 🔗

Yes, I agree with that, but how do we counter it?

124032 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basileus, 1, #265 of 1659 🔗

The antidote to fear is love.

124560 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #266 of 1659 🔗

Ageed. But the antidote to despair is anger.

124887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #267 of 1659 🔗

I’d go with action. But anger would probably work too. 🙂

123415 TJN, replying to TJN, 13, #268 of 1659 🔗

Well done to Will Jones once again for today’s post.

Sue Denim’s piece is absolutely bang on, especially this bit:

Rephrased, his [Ferguson’s] conclusions could have been worked out on the back of a napkin, as “any” model would give the same conclusions given just three variables. Therefore it didn’t require 15,000 lines of code or any particular expertise to do his job. Literally “any” model would agree.

Yep, as I did in a few lines of Excel back in April. The Emperor has no clothes. Within about three minutes I’d found that the critical variable was population susceptibility. And somehow Ferguson et al missed that – or so we are asked to believe.

What Ferguson and the rest fail to admit: given the lack of basic knowledge about covid transmissibility and population susceptibility, the models back then were of no predictive use whatsoever . They might have helped policy makers to think about the disease, but never to predict it.

But why bother to think when ‘models’ can take the responsibility for you. Fuming, because I’ve seen exactly the same in another area of government science, and how embedded it is, and eventually I just had to walk.

And exactly the same mistakes – or rather abuses – are being made now, as anyone who has read the ‘Reasonable Worse Case Scenario’ data, as leaked to Deborah Cohen, will realise.

Once again, it is Imperial College ‘models’ which are being (ab)used now to crush our society.

123420 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to TJN, 2, #269 of 1659 🔗

And these very same hypocrites would cry out in terror if their car, their food, their phones were deemed suitable and safe for use on the back of an unvalidated and unverified model.

123579 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to mhcp, 5, #270 of 1659 🔗

If Ferguson’s models were used to build bridges, the bridge would fall down and he’d be put in jail.

123592 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to TJN, 3, #271 of 1659 🔗

Dilbert: “The aim of every engineer is to reach retirement without getting blamed for a major catastrophe”

Doesn’t seem to apply to scientists.

123910 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kf99, 3, #272 of 1659 🔗

Yes, although I think ‘academics’ should replace ‘scientists’ here.

124059 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TJN, 2, #273 of 1659 🔗

That’s why he chose modelling and not engineering.

123423 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to TJN, 2, #274 of 1659 🔗

The other issue was that if the same input was used the output was different, which it should never be.

123583 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to p02099003, 5, #275 of 1659 🔗

Yes, that is correct – but this effect is in the noise compared with the assumptions being wildly out. It is however a sure sign of laziness.

Basically, his modelling is random number generation.

The man is a fraud and charlatan.

124061 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TJN, 2, #276 of 1659 🔗

And so is the government.

123838 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, 1, #277 of 1659 🔗

the models back then were of no predictive use whatsoever . They might have helped policy makers to think about the disease, but never to predict it.

I hope they did, because part of the modelling process is to expose the assumptions and assumed range of values. The assumption that there was little to no pre-existing immunity was the right one to make at the time, given that there was no way of finding out in the time available, and the disease was novel. But the outcome of the “unmitigated” model was not the precise number but the qualitative “catastrophic”. Funnily enough, that turned out to be correct. The experience of Manaus and Guayaquil shows that although the number of deaths would not have been as high, it would still have been catastrophic (and caused the collapse of the NHS in London at least). So this particular model was, as Box famously put it “wrong but useful”. It gave the right answer, which informed the decision that doing nothing was not an option. Whether the thing done was the right thing is quite another matter, and one on which most people reading this have a very clear view.

124731 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #278 of 1659 🔗

Sorry I haven’t replied for a while, but I’ve been out and about all day.

Well I’m sure they didn’t think about what the disease progress might be. And of course, using a simplistic model such as Ferguson’s leads, and effectively an infection doubling rate every 3-4 days, 100% susceptibility, and a death rate of 0.9% lead to some horrendous figures.

But were they ever plausible? I think not. These sorts of diseases never involve 100% susceptibility – not even AIDs. Not everyone gets the flu when it goes around, or a cold. Perhaps only about 35-40% of people in England got bubonic plague in 1348-9.

And, as has been said many times now, deaths were dropping from the second week of April, implying that peak infection rate was before lockdown. Whatever benefit of the doubt the more generous may be inclined to allow them, the measures could have been wound right back from the end of April the latest. In any event, lockdown didn’t ‘save the NHS’.

In my experience, models are a great way for policy makers to abrogate responsibility – it wasn’t them, or their advisors, or even the modellers: it was the model . As if the model itself is some sort of independent reality.

And, astonishingly, Ferguson and Imperial are still calling the shots. Ferguson’s method is I think quite clear – make the most apocalyptic warnings, and he’ll get the government’s ear. The real scientist, who is honest and doesn’t go to the extremes of terror, doesn’t get the contract.

124754 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #279 of 1659 🔗

I’m sure they didn’t think about what the disease progress might be

I don’t know who “they” are, but if you mean members of SAGE and SPI-M, I’m pretty sure that they did.

Perhaps only about 35-40% of people in England got bubonic plague in 1348-9.

Seems unlikely, considering that something like 50% of the population died of it.

implying that peak infection rate was before lockdown

… but after social measures started. If you want to argue that social measures had already effectively mitigated the spread of the disease, that’s fine, but not strictly relevant to discussing the hypothetical process of the unmitigated scenario.

These sorts of diseases never involve 100% susceptibility – not even AIDs. Not everyone gets the flu when it goes around, or a cold.

Conflating two things here. Flu typically has a lower R0, implying lower herd immunity threshold, and probable pre-existing immunity, not to mention vaccination. Certainly not everyone is susceptible, but more to the point, not every encounter with an infectious person causes infection.

models are a great way for policy makers to abrogate responsibility

I share that concern. After all, quite a lot of the people commenting here are blaming the model, or the modellers, or the concept of modelling rather than our democratically accountable government whose job it is to decide.

125073 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #280 of 1659 🔗

Thanks for your reply, and of course now there’s a new page up I’ve no idea whether you will see this.

When I say ‘they’ I mean policy makers. I don’t think Johnson, Hancock and co are capable of thinking about covid-19. To the extent that SAGE did ‘think’ about it, they clearly came with preconceptions, or at least an unwillingness to take responsibility for a light touch approach. Lack of clarity of thinking has been a major feature of the government’s handling of covid. I also think there are some serious questions to be asked  about the makeup of SAGE, and whether it included a suitable diversity and range of expertise, and about the diversity and range of expertise the government has consulted during the whole episode, They appear to have limited themselves to a very narrow range of opinion.

My experience of government using models is they do indeed replace the need to ‘think’. Other people may have had different experiences, but that is what I’ve seen, and for me it has uncomfortable apparent echoes here.

According to what I’ve read, only about a third of the English population died of Black Death. But even if it was 50% my point still stands – somehow or other half didn’t, and given that the mortality rate of those with the disease was close to 100%, that means they can’t have had the disease. And given the living conditions, where it could spread very easily, they probably had some sort of immunity, or for some other reason weren’t susceptible.

Lockdown was announced on 23 March – yes there were measures before that, but they weren’t lockdown. My position at that time was that I accepted the measures announced up to 20 March, although with reluctance and some doubt; but I was entirely against actual Lockdown from the minute I heard about it. We just don’t know how much effect the measures announced up to 20 March had – the debate is still out on that, and the experience of lots of countries will have to be analysed before we have a reasonable idea.

My point on AIDS and flu, etc. Like Black Deat, it  was just to show examples of diseases against which the population does not apparently have 100% susceptibility. Covid has many features in common with flu – but as you say, it appears that significant proportion of people do have immunity to the various flu strains, even new ones. This may well have been gained by previous exposure to those previous strains. That appears to be the thinking now with covid-19. I’m not an epidemiologist, but I’m gobsmacked that policy makers didn’t consider this as being a likely, and even highly likely, feature of covid-19.

Your point about not every encounter with an infectious person causing infection is of course an interesting one, which we don’ appear to understand fully. Again, there is every reason to think it is also a feature of covid-19.

I think your last paragraph is makes a fair point.

Have you been posting on here for long? I should say that I welcome people coming on here and making contradictory points, particularly technical points – saves it becoming an echo chamber – although a lot of people come on and read here to get like-minded company and stop themselves going nuts during all this, which is fair enough.

Sorry for dashed post, and please read (if you see it) in that light. And we are debating highly complex issues here, which perhaps a forum like this isn’t entirely suited to.

123916 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to TJN, 2, #281 of 1659 🔗

The susceptibility issue is huge.

The Irish Health body were defending their ‘with/of’ Covid numbers today in this horrendous article. Largely in line with the CDC analysis 95% approx of deaths are ‘with Covid’, the number in Ireland was around 110 people from 1777 deaths.


They try to maintain the narrative by saying that “Well, a third of Irish people have underlying conditions, so we have to stay vigilant”

These kind of nonsensical arguments appeal to common sense. But it’s not useful for the purposes of the argument at all. They are trying to imply that everyone of those 33% are susceptible. How many of them have actually tested positive and recovered for example? Are any of them immune as we we see in studies of antibodies and T cell responses? Are all those underlying conditions proven to make people more susceptible?

It’s obfuscation at the most basic level. Being liberal with the truth. Cherry picking. No integrity. Absolute liars.

124064 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #282 of 1659 🔗

The Health Police are crazy. Not to be trusted most of the time.

124733 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #283 of 1659 🔗

Your last paragraph is bang on.

123419 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 13, #284 of 1659 🔗

On one of the BBC have your day was a comment that stated his 1 year old daughter had had her regular childhood vaccinations and had developed a temperature. They were self isolating and waiting to get tested, their elder child hadn’t been to pre school either. I responded by saying they didn’t need to self isolate as the child had a normal reaction to a vaccination. I also pointed out that their children were too young to be tested. I don’t know where they got the idea that they needed to be tested at all.
My comment received at least one down vote.
what is wrong with people?

123424 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to p02099003, #285 of 1659 🔗

Have your say, not day. Predictive text error.

123432 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to p02099003, #286 of 1659 🔗

Having your day is better. Less easy to ignore.

123471 ▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, 3, #287 of 1659 🔗

What is wring with people?
Against which the gods contend in vain.

123497 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to annie, 3, #288 of 1659 🔗

Those whom the gods destroy they first make mad, or the Christian version, “God gave them over to a reprobate mind . .”

123429 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #289 of 1659 🔗

Genuine question about the operational matters of freezing out parliament by the government – Linsays letter to Hancock and the 1922 chair expressing incandescence at the path the cabal are leading us all down.

Genuinely, how do the givernmet actions fit with the idea what we are seeing is cover up of incompetence?

I don’t mean to labour the difference between views that there is or isn’t a plan causing this. I simply would like to understand how Hancock and the rest are acting with so little respect for the customs and procedure of OUR parliament.

123442 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 16, #290 of 1659 🔗

Speaking as a long-term supporter of the cock up theory (whose faith is wavering somewhat), remember that this is a leadership that used every trick in the book to subvert the constitution and play fast and loose with parliamentary rules last year over Brexit. I strongly suspect that they’ve discovered that using the Coronavirus Act to rule by SI is simply too easy and too much fun for them to want to bother with such boring things as accountability, parliamentary scrutiny or democracy for as long as they can get away with it.

Their underlying motives, however, are very much up for debate

123498 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #291 of 1659 🔗

Thank you Matt. I appreciate your reply. Fairly plausible, I won’t add comment because I haven’t given thought to it yet.

123702 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, #292 of 1659 🔗

Where can we see Sir Lindsay’s letter, please?

124614 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #293 of 1659 🔗

Read Tobys Update.
It was in the DT. A verbal reprimand from Sir Lindsay in Parliament yesterday. The letter was from a bunch of backbenchers.

124613 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #294 of 1659 🔗

Don’t forget de Piffle tried to prorogue Parliament within weeks of becoming PM. In effect he’s succeeded by a backdoor route.

123480 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Basics, 4, #295 of 1659 🔗

“We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.” ― George Orwell

123670 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 3, #296 of 1659 🔗

The analogy I’d put forward, is our government, along with many others around the world, are standing in the bottom of a pit they’ve dug themselves, with help from the WHO, media/tech and NGOs. They all believe if they keep digging, they’ll eventually come out the other side. It’s obvious they won’t, but the more they dig, the more likely we’re all going to fall in.

124066 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #297 of 1659 🔗

If they keep digging we’ll end up in China. Like the Road Runner.

123438 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 8, #298 of 1659 🔗

The belief in testing is like homeopathy. You take an ingredient, amplify (or dilute) it a million times, and claim it is still effective because it is present.

123470 ▶▶ annie, replying to WhyNow, 14, #299 of 1659 🔗

Homeopaths believe that the more you dilute a remedy, the more potent it is.
Hence the joke about the man who firgot to take his homeopathic remedy and died of an overdose.

123440 p02099003, #300 of 1659 🔗
123443 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #301 of 1659 🔗

What happens to employees on furlough come October?
We know the money will stop. Some offices will only allow 20% of staff back so they can comply with social distancing rules. Perhaps it is worth looking at the definition of furlough

A furlough is a temporary leave of employees due to special needs of a company or employer, which may be due to economic conditions of a specific employer or in society as a whole. These involuntary furloughs may be short or long term, and many of those affected may seek other temporary employment during that time.

Will employees find themselves in a state of permanent financial limbo?. Not sacked or made redundant. On unpaid leave and not able to claim benefits as they are still ’employed”

123449 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cecil B, 4, #302 of 1659 🔗

I’m assuming that when companies are faced with crippling debt brought about by loans taken out and a fall in profits they will go bankrupt and those people on furlough will be made redundant.

123453 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Cecil B, 12, #303 of 1659 🔗

one thing for sure is my hard work over the years and the tax i pay on my earnings is going to people sitting around doing nothing. It’s not fair. Everyone can be unemployed from time to time and then get back to work but millions aren’t and many of these will be sitting their with their hands out looking to the likes of me to drop some coins in their hand so they can do fuck all. Seems to me the more you do to look after yourself they want it from you.

123463 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Biker, 7, #304 of 1659 🔗

A man on Jeremy Vine recently:

“Where do you work?” “Public sector.” “Can you work from home?” “No, not really.” “Are you keen to get back to work?” “No, I prefer to work from home”.

123472 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Biker, -2, #305 of 1659 🔗

Your tax doesn’t go anywhere. It effectively goes in the bin. You earn more than you otherwise would have because government spending maintains demand in the economy. That’s how the furlough scheme has worked for six months.

Tax arises as a result of government spending. It’s how they get it back *after* they’ve spent it.

What we need now is a guaranteed alternative job to go to so people can still sell their labour hours while the private sector reconfigures itself rapidly to the new way of working.

Otherwise we’ll have sound capital being destroyed alongside the stuff that is no longer viable.

123782 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #306 of 1659 🔗

the last thing we need is a guaranteed job from the government. Who will pay the wages but me and my tax. The drivel you posted makes me think you’ve a hard time working out out much something costs in a pound shop

123464 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, 4, #307 of 1659 🔗

I suspect many of them will be made redundant or re-hired on new contracts. However given that many businesses are now deep in debt and possibly have little or no reserves, it will be the former.

Also business rents are due to be collected during the last week of September. That is crucial because I foresee more shops and offices closing down.

123448 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 11, #308 of 1659 🔗

So Ferguson again says: “The key conclusion [is] that severe social distancing measures were required to prevent health systems being overwhelmed”. But that is not what we are doing, is it!
I can accept the argument that, for a very limited time in March or April, there was a risk of hospital facilities being overwhelmed. That creates bad TV, especially for a Conservative government. But now we have the data we can see that this was a cohort of the terminally ill, mostly in hospital for other reasons.
If you started the clock from now, and you asked: “What is required to prevent health systems from being overwhelmed?” and someone said: “Lock down all social and economic activity. Close the hospitals, shut schools.” people would thing you were either mad or a fanatic with an agenda.

123450 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to WhyNow, 4, #309 of 1659 🔗

They’d been saying this for years. Even the government’s own emergency response plan from a few years back was saying don’t do this

123455 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 9, #310 of 1659 🔗

“Sydney family told only one child can go to Queensland to say goodbye to dying father“


Horrific modern day ‘Sophie’s Choice’

123468 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 11, #311 of 1659 🔗

Vile, diabolical evil.

123683 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Sarigan, 5, #312 of 1659 🔗

Tonight’s news update on this is they all can go to see their dying father, but they are only allowed to drive there (900 kilometres), quarantine for 2 weeks, then an hour’s visit each child. It will cost $16,000. What was noticeable though was the slight change in attitude of the reporter and anchor. I am getting the impression of a change in rhetoric.

123687 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Sarigan, 4, #313 of 1659 🔗

“They told us we were being selfish – and we weren’t taking into consideration the other cancer patients,” Mr Langborne told 7NEWS

There are no words

123923 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, 2, #314 of 1659 🔗

That’s is an abuse of human rights. I honestly think that would break me in so many ways.

123928 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Sarigan, 4, #315 of 1659 🔗

These people are evil . Outright Satanic.

123459 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 6, #316 of 1659 🔗

Back to the model and Sue Denim’s comments. One thing we don’t hear enough of is the limits of current medical knowledge. As Sue says, if the results don’t follow your predictions, your hypothesis is wrong.

I think public health is somewhat fooled by the success of science rather than medicine. We can inspect cells and genes with astounding precision. But that does not mean we know how they work. There was a phase when the pharmaceutical industry thought it could discover new drugs with robotic testing of compounds. It was a dismal failure.

As Ferguson says, the essence of the model is based on “infection” and “fatality”, and yet medically we do not know what those are. We can’t even measure them when they are right in front of us. When someone tests positive, we can’t even say whether they are infectious. When someone dies, we can’t even say with accuracy what they died of.

123935 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to WhyNow, 2, #317 of 1659 🔗

Excellent point. At the data collection level this is obvious. At the policy level the margins of error are compounded with a need to do something.

Thats also fine. But you need to review positions as the data evolves

123465 Will, replying to Will, 20, #318 of 1659 🔗

Very sceptical editorial piece in the Telegraph (I strongly suspect it was penned by our very own TY). I really do think this is the last concession the Johnson will be allowed to make to the doom mongers. The 1922 committee and the editorial page of the Telegraph are clear and unequivocal that enough is enough and we have got to get on with our lives and live with this glorified cold.

123507 ▶▶ Marie R, replying to Will, 6, #319 of 1659 🔗

We should all buy a copy! Boost their sales….encourage them to continue their scepticism

123611 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Will, 1, #320 of 1659 🔗

No, there is talk of curfew now. We will end up like Victoria State, Australia.

123980 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to jhfreedom, #321 of 1659 🔗

Cheerful stuff, jh. Hungover ?

123469 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 12, #322 of 1659 🔗

Why is Ferguson not considered a junk scientist? He has utterly failed the Feynman test.

If it disagrees with experiment it is wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It does not make any difference how beautiful your guess is. It does not make any difference how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is – if it disagrees with experiment it is wrong. That is all there is to it.

123473 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Lucan Grey, 9, #323 of 1659 🔗

Feynman’s other advice to his students was the first thing you think when coming across a scientific pronouncement, no matter the lofty individual or book saying it is:


Do not take claims on their face and work back. Always start from a sceptical position and work up

123487 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to mhcp, 9, #324 of 1659 🔗

“In the final analysis facts are more important than PR, because nature cannot be fooled’ Richard Feynman, report on Challenger shuttle disaster.

Nature is speaking, let’s hope more people are listening.

123663 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #325 of 1659 🔗

Science is pretty much dead

123475 Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, 13, #326 of 1659 🔗

It’s probably not a fashionable view to have – on this site at least! – but I rather feel sorry in advance for those covid marshals. They will be the personification of this authoritarian regime; in short modern-day capos, prisoners in charge of other prisoners. When the worm turns, and it will, it will all be unleashed on them as the face of it all. God help them.

123477 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Miss Owl, 14, #327 of 1659 🔗

They don’t have to take the job do they. They could refuse.

What’s amazing is how quickly people join the Stasi, and then deny they ever did afterwards. Happens time and again.

123482 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #328 of 1659 🔗

Indeed they could; but if no-one joins up, it’ll be a job passed to local authority employees.

And, of course, that should be kapos.

123486 ▶▶▶▶ Dan72, replying to Miss Owl, 7, #329 of 1659 🔗

In saner times, a person wilfully applying for the job of Covid Marshall should be ruled out on the basis that they are unsuitable.

123490 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #330 of 1659 🔗

However people who have lost employment and need to support their families may step up. People are already desperate and more will become so. Having said that there are probably plenty of little dictators who would do it for free.

124079 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #331 of 1659 🔗

The Quebec government is considering the same tactic. I think that they are collaborating. It’s an orgnaized, global blitz.

124690 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lucan Grey, #332 of 1659 🔗

Many people take shitty jobs they’d rather refuse, simply to feed and shelter their families.
However, any retired EHOs who sign up should be dealt with appropriately.

123489 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Miss Owl, 6, #333 of 1659 🔗

I disagree very strongly. You could make the same argument for collaborators in occupied France.

123493 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #334 of 1659 🔗

And then many decades later these collaborators tried to pass off being in the Resistance or claiming that they opposed the German occupation.

We’ll get the same here, lockdownistas claiming that they were actually against lockdown and social distancing.

123977 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #335 of 1659 🔗

That’s why I want an FPN at least. 🙂 Evidence.

123533 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #336 of 1659 🔗

The Milice, active enforcers of Nazi rule.

123543 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #337 of 1659 🔗

It will be like being a traffic warden, only worse.

124076 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Miss Owl, #338 of 1659 🔗

Make Boris, Matt and all the others enforce these rules. Quit using proxies, Nazis!

123479 Will, replying to Will, 25, #339 of 1659 🔗

When is a journalist going to have the balls to ask Ferguson how his modelling fits with Sweden? This country has been destroyed on the basis of the jottings of this scientific shag sack and no one ever asks him the most obvious question..

124239 ▶▶ MRG, replying to Will, 4, #340 of 1659 🔗

He was interviewed on Radio 4 Today this morning. Disgraceful interview. I was shouting “Sweden” at the radio!

123481 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 35, #341 of 1659 🔗

Yesterday’s news filled me with rage and so did the reaction from my colleagues when the social events they’ve planned had to be cancelled – oh its all for the best, infections are going up, yadda, yadda. Goes to show how much of the population is still asleep and shutting their brains to the reality of our situation.

While the imbeciles in the government continue along the path of transforming this country into a police state, meanwhile, a few days ago someone was murdered not far from where I live and yesterday there were police in my street due to I suspect another domestic incident.

The government’s obsession with the mythical eradication of what is nothing more than a bad flu has led to all sorts of problems from untreated illnesses, mental health issues, abuse, people are having to put up with the prospect of their livelihood being decimated and having to live with rising crime and antisocial behaviour as a result of lockdown and antisocial distancing.

I am fed up with the crocodile tears from others, their constant platitudes of “we’re in this together” and “saving the NHS.” The government has blood on their hands and the so-called opposition are nothing but collaborators – they should be reminded of this all day everyday.

I hope and pray for the day when the likes of Johnson, Hancock, Whitty, Vallance and Ferguson are brought to the dock to answer for their crimes.

123508 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #342 of 1659 🔗

They will soon wake up when they can’t buy their shopping because people are panic buying or there are food shortages or they can’t have their 2 weeks in the sun because BA and Easyjet have gone bankrupt or their house has been burgled or their range rover has been broken into. Honest hard working people are on the verge of losing their job, living, houses and self-respect.

Sorry this rant isn’t aimed at you just the pig headed people who have swallowed this shit from day 1.

123519 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 6, #343 of 1659 🔗

Agree. And also when their savings and generous pension schemes are raided to pay for all the debts we’ve accumulated.

I will have no sympathy for them.

123589 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #344 of 1659 🔗

Me too. I think there are certain *types* who think that they are immune from the pain that will ensue. Where do they think the income to pay their pensions comes from? They may be enthusing about not going back to work in big cities but a large amount of income is generated from those empty skyscrapers that pension funds and insurance companies are so heavily invested in. Not to mention all those (once) blue chip companies that are fast going down the pan.

123721 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 6, #345 of 1659 🔗

Well said but unfortunately many of these people think that money grows on trees.

And they shouldn’t be so smug working from home and claiming that they’re “saving” money. When companies cotton on to the possibility that they can pile on more work on them for less pay then either their salaries will be cut or frozen for years with no hope of a pay rise.

They should also be aware of the possibility of hiring someone in India to do the same job whilst paying in rupees rather than pounds, they’re expendable and can be thrown in the scrapheap.

123541 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #346 of 1659 🔗

Their actions are starting to look intentional. They are crazed and deluded.

123575 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #347 of 1659 🔗

I think they’re deranged and insane and I think you’re spot on.

124712 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #348 of 1659 🔗

Definitely intentional. One well-orchestrated psy-op.

123491 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #349 of 1659 🔗

Jonathan Sumption with Alison Pearson on Planet Normal. I love this man! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/10/planet-normal-use-fear-has-brought-greatest-invasion-personal/

123495 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #350 of 1659 🔗

… but Prof Pantsdown is pushing for more restrictions… Still spouting nonsense about ‘flattening the curve’: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-social-distancing-gatherings-rules-covid-vaccine/

He’s like a stuck record!

123503 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #351 of 1659 🔗

He has been like a broken record since the late 1990s to early 2000s.

Why he’s still been listened to is a mystery.

123505 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to HelzBelz, #352 of 1659 🔗

I notice on the PM’s briefing they pointed to a chart showing a 4 week forecast. Only Belgium had a good outcome. Dim Whitty said this was down to precautionary measures taken. I remember this being masks worn indoors in bars and restaurants

123695 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #353 of 1659 🔗

‘Professor Neil Ferguson, whose modelling led to the decision to impose the lockdown in March, has warned that the UK should not rule out more restrictions.
The Imperial College epidemiologist told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “The measures just announced will take some weeks to have an effect, so we need to wait at this point and see how much it will flatten the curve.
“And then if that is not sufficient to bring the reproduction number below one , so the epidemic starts shrinking again, then yes, we may need to clamp down in other areas.”
The Government has tightened restrictions on meeting in groups after a surge in infections prompted concerns over a second wave of coronavirus .
From Monday 14 September it will be illegal for people in England to gather in groups of more than six.
Prof Ferguson said he was still working from home, and cautioned: “Certainly I think we should hesitate and maybe pause at the headlong rush to get everybody back into offices.
“But some people have to work and I completely understand the concerns in many quarters that everybody working at home has an economic impact, particularly on city centres.”

Yes, he is INSANE!

123770 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Carrie, #354 of 1659 🔗

he is wedded to his initial model and assumptions and he’s hardly going to backtrack when many other people accept his predictions as well.

124088 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, 2, #355 of 1659 🔗

He’s not insane, he’s an imbecile. A mediocre melonhead.

124715 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #356 of 1659 🔗

Certainly a smug self-righteous b’stard.

123492 Basics, #357 of 1659 🔗

Imperial College Shattock on Sky News Burley.

The vaccines are not going to be perfect. As time goes by we will get them better.

There’s no point developing a vaccine that has side effects people won’t tolerate.

We need treatments and vaccine this is going to be around for years he said.

Earlier a Mr Sommers vaccine trial participant remarked I had my first vaccine in May. No symptons, slightky raised temp, red arm. If I was going to keel over I would have by now. Oh wow, the man presented as a self consciously intelligent man. Why is he not aware of how vaccine testing must pass through time.

123494 crimsonpirate, 2, #358 of 1659 🔗

Christmas cancelled? I guess Diwali will not be the same this year

123499 Andrew, 3, #359 of 1659 🔗

Watch these doctors say it’s all a massive crime https://youtu.be/l5YJhwJCS2o

123500 Under The Bridge, 10, #360 of 1659 🔗

As we’ve seen before in this paper , at some point epidemiologists started to define success for their predictions as “matches what other epidemiologists predict” instead of “matches reality”.”

So basically, any number of people could have claimed success for their flying inventions before the Wright brothers:

“I never lifted off the ground by flapping my arms with my contraption. I concluded that I was not successful until I saw that many other inventors were attempting to fly using flappers on their arms just like I was. Therefore, my invention is a success!”

123501 NickR, replying to NickR, 13, #361 of 1659 🔗

Of the 32 deaths reported yesterday or the 8 today it would be informative to know if ANY of them caught the virus in the community, out & about.
Remember, 75% of hospital’covid’ admissions are of people already in the hospital!
Only 60% of deaths have been of people in hospital. That means at most only 15% of the numbers they’re trying to terrify people with could conceivably come from outside the care system.

123532 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to NickR, 2, #362 of 1659 🔗

These are still the fundamental statistics we all still need to know. If this information was shared regularly it would calm everyone down.

124282 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Tommo, 2, #363 of 1659 🔗

It’s all here https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/Covid-Publication-13-08-2020.xlsx
82% of all ‘Covid’ admissions to hospital since March 20th to August 9th were people who were already in hospital. They just went from the non-covid ward to the covid ward!
Only 60% of the deaths were in hospital. The other 40% came from people in care or care homes, so they didn’t get the virus from a young person down the pub! 18% of 60% = 10.8%, that suggests only 10.8% of all the fatalities came from outside the care system.
We have 2 pandemics, 1 of old people & 1 of obese/diabetic/ill people.

123502 Cecil B, 9, #364 of 1659 🔗

I note that the dictatorship has slipped in a power of arrest with their latest ‘laws”

If these powers had been in place for the past month then it is highly likely that Piers Corbyn would be remanded in custody in a prison by now

How you ask?

Once arrested an individual can be charged with an offence and bailed to a court. In Mr Corbyns case it would likely to have been conditional bail i.e. not to attend demonstrations etc

If he (or anyone) subsequently breaches their bail conditions they can be arrested taken before a court and remanded in custody to a prison

If he (or anyone) commits a further offence whilst on bail (for example meeting more than six people), they are again liable to arrest and remand in custody for committing an offence whilst already on bail

(Bail Act 1976)

I presume the prison service has told the Home Office that they will not be able to cope with the influx of refusniks.

I suspect there will be plans afoot to build camps to house them (where have we heard that before?)

Meet six people once= arrest, charge, and bailed to court

Meet six people on a second occasion= arrest, charge, remanded in custody

All introduce by means of Statutory Instrument

123510 petgor, replying to petgor, 8, #365 of 1659 🔗

My wife’s view of why this madness has gripped the government, and I find it hard to disagree, is that Boris’s serious health condition, which put him in hospital, may have coloured what might otherwise have been the response of an otherwise sensible man.

If this view has legs then perhaps a session with a psycho therapist would have benefited the entire nation. Just a thought.

123534 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to petgor, 4, #366 of 1659 🔗

I think what would be powerful would to have some people who had coronavirus bad stand up and say “yes it was awful, but awful things happen all the time and I don’t want the country locked down for this”. Boris has been traumatised and lost all perspective as a result. We don’t know how we ourselves would react in such a situation but I think your wife is right that it is unfortunate that as PM this has happened to him and he has gone somewhat (completely?) mad about it. Mind you, SAGE don’t seem to have gained any perspective in the last few months either. Maybe it’s a collective thing…

123658 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #367 of 1659 🔗

It may have affected him a bit though the key blunder – to lock down, and to ramp up fear – occurred BEFORE he got ill

And what about the rest of the cabinet, or parliament

Every man jack of them, spineless

123604 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to petgor, 2, #368 of 1659 🔗

Vested interests

124094 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to petgor, 3, #369 of 1659 🔗

So the only outcome for anyone who has ever had a serious, life-threatening illness is to become a bedwetting dictator?

124772 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to petgor, #370 of 1659 🔗

This was planned before then. De Piffle spelt it out before he was ill.

I don’t see any particular change inhim, other than that he seems more tired. Still the lying self-serving wastrel he always was.

123511 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #371 of 1659 🔗

The “rule of six” – does it include babes in arms?

In a household of seven? – does someone have to be exiled?

it bain’t be clear to me at all, at all.

123520 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #372 of 1659 🔗

To the first, yes. To the second, no. Single family units are exempted from the limit (but of course, a family of 6 or more can’t meet up with anyone as as a family unit, full stop).

123526 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to matt, #373 of 1659 🔗

Thank you for that clarification. I’ve another question which I’m going to post above now.

124097 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ned of the Hills, -1, #374 of 1659 🔗

It’s part of the depopulation plan. More planned parenthood. Smaller families.

123512 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 3, #375 of 1659 🔗

Watch these doctors it’s all a massive crime https://youtu.be/l5YJhwJCS2o

123525 ▶▶ Hugh_Manity, replying to Andrew, 3, #376 of 1659 🔗

It is all starting to unravel now. All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force. George Orwell

123643 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Hugh_Manity, 2, #377 of 1659 🔗

As Abraham Lincoln didnt say (false attribution)
You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time

123650 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 2, #378 of 1659 🔗

i also like
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on

most pertinent

124050 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to mjr, #379 of 1659 🔗

“Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies” Christine McVie. with a little help from Stevie Nicks. 🙂

124780 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #380 of 1659 🔗

But these are enormous clanging whoppers.

123514 Outraged of Totteridge, replying to Outraged of Totteridge, 4, #381 of 1659 🔗

So Sir Charles Walker seems like he is one of the few MPs who are sound on this issue. Do we know any others? Toby, perhaps we could have a list of the known sceptics among our MPs so we can lobby them to organise into an effective opposition against the monomaniacs running our government?

123657 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Outraged of Totteridge, 5, #382 of 1659 🔗

Steve Baker, John Redwood, Desmond Swayne, Graham Brady, David Davis, Christopher Chope, Robert Courts, Robert Syms, Edward Leigh have all made some dissenting noises, though they are by no means all proper sceptics, at least publicly

123709 ▶▶▶ Outraged of Totteridge, replying to Julian, #383 of 1659 🔗

Good list, thank you. We should add more who we think might be on our side. I hold cautious optimism for our local MP Theresa Villiers as well. The ERG may be a good source of “sensibles” on this matter.

124783 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Outraged of Totteridge, #384 of 1659 🔗

If the ERG members are to be considered sensible, we really are lost!

123516 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #385 of 1659 🔗

Listen To The Scientists


Democrats say that President Trump needs to “listen to the scientists.” And when he does, they attack him for listening to the scientists.

124099 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #386 of 1659 🔗

The Democrats also say that they will contest the election results even if Trump wins by a landslide. You could win all the Electoral votes and they still wouldn’t concede defeat.

123522 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 5, #387 of 1659 🔗

08.30 BBC R4 Today
Grant Schapps admits the technology for johnsons moonshine scheme does not yet exist.

123527 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to karenovirus, 4, #388 of 1659 🔗

the interview with David Spiegelhalter after ended with the interviewer suggesting “More Mars shot than Moonshot?” David replied “your comment!”

123523 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 6, #389 of 1659 🔗

after watching Boris and his depressing performance showing a sharp uptick in cases among young people someone suggested this was down to the Eatout/helpout in KFC,McD and Nandos mainly frequented by younger people. If so, the Government themselves are responsible for the uptick.

124102 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #390 of 1659 🔗

They wanted an uptick. They prayed for an uptick. By hook or by crook.

124785 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richard riewer, #391 of 1659 🔗

They engineered one!

123528 William Hand, replying to William Hand, 21, #392 of 1659 🔗

My first post.

There is a big issue with the Fat Controller’s “moon shot” idea of mass testing.

If you are seeking to determine whether someone is clean every day, then to be sure and “safe” you will need a very sensitive test. That means that it will be inevitable that it will pick up false positives. So let’s be generous and say we have a false positive rate of 0.1% (which is lower than current PCR swab test). Say we test 30 million people each day, Gov aim is ultimately everyone, but let’s say half for now. 0.1% of 30 million is 300000. That is 300000 people with a false positive that would have to self isolate for 14 days. Say they each have had 10 recent close contacts on average, that will then be a further 3,000,000 people who will be told to isolate through T&T. So every day you will have circa, at least, 3,000,000 people self isolating (and potentially worried and stressed) – for no reason .

They have clearly not thought it through, and as I keep saying, it reinforces the view that our Gov. are bumbling and dangerous idiots. Or alternatively they are very devious and clever at finding more ways of control. Take your pick. Either way, we need regime change.

123531 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to William Hand, 2, #393 of 1659 🔗

Do they think anything through?

123535 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #394 of 1659 🔗

Ha ha good point!

123567 ▶▶ The Diplomat, replying to William Hand, 2, #395 of 1659 🔗

You make a good point but are a factor of 10 out. 0.1% of 30 million is 30,000 and not 300,000

123595 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to The Diplomat, #396 of 1659 🔗

Well spotted.

123627 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to The Diplomat, 1, #397 of 1659 🔗

I’d love to see Dido Harding trying to organise test and trace for 30,000 people every day!?!?

123655 ▶▶ Julian, replying to William Hand, 2, #398 of 1659 🔗

As I have stated earlier, regardless of the logistics, covid is NOT exceptional so exceptional measures are not called for

123714 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to William Hand, #399 of 1659 🔗

I’m surprised you’ve only got two thumbs up (that I can see anyway) – I’ve already been quoting you.

124788 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ned of the Hills, #400 of 1659 🔗

20 now!

124786 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to William Hand, #401 of 1659 🔗

Devious and clever!

Welcome by the way. Great first post!

123529 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #402 of 1659 🔗

“The rule of six”. I can’t arrange to meet up with six friends in a pub. But I can go in to a put with six people already in it. Is that correct?

123530 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Ned of the Hills, 14, #403 of 1659 🔗

Yes. The aim of the legislation is to stop groups of people being close to each other. They may talk and become sceptical otherwise 🙂

123549 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #404 of 1659 🔗

The only limit on the total number of people in a pub are the capacity limits, guided by the “Covid safe” voodoo “rules”. You can’t have more than six at a table, but the pub can have as many tables of 6 as it can fit in.

123711 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to matt, 1, #405 of 1659 🔗

Thanks once more for that clarification. I was in a small little bar the other day. At one point there were nine of us in the bar – four different groups (if I can call myself a “group) – sat at four different tables.

If only six people at most can be sat round a table the limit of no more than six people who know each other meeting in a pub seems pointless – they’d have to be socially distanced (dread term) anyway,.

123715 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #406 of 1659 🔗

It is pointless.

123590 ▶▶ Ian, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #407 of 1659 🔗

Do you recall, the ‘deal’ with mandatory masking was that ‘restrictions could be eased’. Restrictions are now screwed tight shut again and, guess what? Still need masks? Who’da thowt it eh?

123689 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #408 of 1659 🔗

Unless you are playing sports…then you can meet 30 of your mates to play a rugby game but no pub after..that is illegal..The sheer fucking stupidity boggles the mind

123927 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #409 of 1659 🔗

Boggling the mind is all part of the psych ops game intended to distract us from their crimes.

124108 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, 1, #410 of 1659 🔗

And inspires some people to spend countless, useless hours trying to figure out what it’s all about.

124424 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Thomas_E, #411 of 1659 🔗

30 is just 5 groups of 6 – you’d never get all 30 round one table anyway!

123537 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 15, #412 of 1659 🔗

Regardless of the modelling deficiencies Ferguson shouldn’t be given a platform anywhere. He broke the lockdown. If the person who, in theory, knew better than anyone else the risks involved didn’t think they were that worth bothering about what does that tell you? Even if you’re a lockdown zealot he should still be persona non grata.

124062 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Achilles, 2, #413 of 1659 🔗

In the US Nancy Pelosi broke the lockdown too, what is she like 79,80? yet it revealed a new doctrine, presumably it will come in over here with MP’s soon: anyone who breaks the lockdown, it’s not down to them… it’s Donald Trump’s fault.

124110 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, 1, #414 of 1659 🔗

There was a great film with Ida Lupino in the 50s. I think she killed her husband by locking the garage door while the car motor was still running. During her court scene she declared ‘the doors made me do it’.

123539 kf99, 9, #415 of 1659 🔗

Anyone else find today’s update one of the most optimistic so far? Genuinely feeling a bit more positive. Clare’s piece, the JCorbyn supporter, all really good. And that picture of Whitty studying the graph upside down always makes me laugh out load

123542 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 9, #416 of 1659 🔗

“In an instant masks were off, with a visible sigh of relief from all”

How soft are people really? Well done to that gentleman for brining his friends into the light. However, when people are couching their entire view of what is the biggest power grab we’ve ever seen in peace time in terms of not wanting to upset the host then we are in some dark waters.

While I feel we urgently need a restoration of values such as freedom and self accountability, we have to somehow give the confidence to people to express their true feelings. Without fear, whether that is fear is of social disapproval or state punishment.

True freedom of speech needs to be defended with an almost fanatical mindset. That means you defend those you do not agree with to say whatever they want. It is the space of debate that needs reingfenced so it cannot be corrupted by the mob.

The last 6 months have really brought that into perspective for me.

123688 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #417 of 1659 🔗

in peace time

People keep making that qualification, but to me, it seems that this is bigger than a world war. At least in war, if your side wins you know you can go back to normal. Our situation seems far worse. I think our lives as we knew them are over.

123951 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #418 of 1659 🔗

I think our lives as we knew them are over.

I think you’re wrong Barney, and bad for morale to boot.

124117 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #419 of 1659 🔗

They are testing your will to resist and return to normal. They are trying to break you. They are torturers. They are anti-human technocrats. Do not let them win.

123545 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 12, #420 of 1659 🔗

I think Boris Johnson can now officially be diagnosed as insane.
Moonshot is beyond absurd and completely unaffordable, even if he can save himself the similar annual outlay for the likely ineffective, dangerous and for most people absolutely useless anyway vaccines.

123947 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #421 of 1659 🔗

Given the recent resurfacing of the ‘R number’, and this lunatic term – I propose MoRonshot.

124550 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #422 of 1659 🔗

At least people will finally see what an idiot he is. Make more confusing rules, more ludicrous comments like this, more people will start ignoring these and go back to “normal”.

123547 Fingerache Philip., 14, #423 of 1659 🔗

I wonder if the Covid marshals (Collaborators) work over Christmas, will they be paid double or treble time or just the standard rate of 30 pieces of Silver?

123548 Nigel Sherratt, 4, #424 of 1659 🔗

The Corbynista postdoctoral molecular neuroscientist makes the standard and tragic error of ignoring the most important resource of all, human ingenuity. Watt’s condenser increased efficiency hugely (as did Bateman and Sherratt’s but that another story). Our contribution to Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution more than offset our other manifold sins and wickedness. Millions were being raised out of abject poverty until this madness aflicted the world. As ever the poor suffer to satisfy the whims of the wealthy first world.

Most people would struggle to generate more than 1 kWh (100 Watts for 10 hours, try keeping a tungsten bulb alight with a bicycle generator) from a day’s hard physical work for which we complain about having to spend 15p.

123550 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #425 of 1659 🔗

New York Post Lockdown “A Big Mistake”

123551 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #426 of 1659 🔗

Covid Marshall = Black Shirts

123555 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -8, #427 of 1659 🔗

I note that Toby is still rabbiting on about the total irrelevance of Ferguson’s code – despite the fact that there are hundreds of models that produce the exact SAME result.

DEAR TOBY: It’s got F— All to do with the code. It’s the initial assumptions that are used in the m odel.

Now, if he really, really wants to support his belief that the lockdown was not effective he might want to dig out some evidence. For example this from the Royal Society (Aug 24th):


See Page 49 (Fig b). The Royal Society’s estimate of the Reproduction Number (R) is approaching 1 before March 23rd and the trajectory of the curve is unaltered the lockdown.

123562 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mayo, 7, #428 of 1659 🔗

I think if Ferguson were to do the decent thing and shut up and stop trying to justify his idiotic predictions despite the actual, real world evidence that they were just so much uninformed bullshit (regardless of the sophistication or otherwise of the maths behind them) then we would all, including Toby, cheerfully ignore him and pretend he didn’t exist.

123593 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to matt, 4, #429 of 1659 🔗

Except Ferguson is never going to admit he was wrong. He will just say, as so many others do, that it was because we had a lockdown that so many lives were saved. If we’d locked down sooner, we’d have saved more lives. It’s not his computer model that was wrong, it’s the real world not matching up with his prediction…

123616 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, 5, #430 of 1659 🔗

Well, much as I would like to see the man pilloried in public, I’ll settle, as I say, for him just shutting up and going away. The evidence of his failure is in front of our eyes, the fact that he continues to try to justify himself is ridiculous. He doesn’t have to admit he was wrong, he just has to stop pretending he was right.

123757 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #431 of 1659 🔗

Tbh it’s not a surprise that such a man should go to his grave refusing to stop claiming he was actually correct on something vital and consequential (see Blair and other WMD obsessives, especially in the US, on Iraq). The problem is that media, politicians and other scientists still seem to be willing to take him seriously and give him platforms, without any proper challenge.

123625 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to matt, -2, #432 of 1659 🔗

His prediction in the event of a lockdown were pretty near the mark. I’m sceptical of the results of the alternative scenarios but I still say that’s due to the assumptions made – particularly those relating to homogeneity.

But, in his defence, most of his assumptions were based on knowledge at the time and, even now, we can’t pin down the level of ‘prior’ immunity with any certainty.

123651 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 2, #433 of 1659 🔗

Well, they may have been ONE plausible set of assumptions at the time, but they are no longer plausible, yet he sticks to them and claims he saved hundreds of thousands of lives, despite much evidence to the contrary

123665 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mayo, 1, #434 of 1659 🔗

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

As I’ve said before, the whole thing serves to demonstrate the uselessness of computer modelling. It is true to say that Ferguson’s work was based on the data available at the time (although it ignored other, plausible, less alarmist data), but that being the case it should not have been presented as anything other than guesswork.

123763 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mayo, 1, #435 of 1659 🔗

His model’s predictions for Sweden were 20 times higher than reality – in keeping with his historical record

124123 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to steve_w, #436 of 1659 🔗

Hysterical record.

123865 ▶▶▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to Mayo, 2, #437 of 1659 🔗

most of his assumptions were based on knowledge at the time

Bullshit. At the time Michael Levitt wrote to him and suggested that according to the data already available from Wuhan and other places he suspected he was out by a factor of 10, but Ferguson ignored him… and lo and behold he was out by a factor of 10.

Ignoring real world evidence when doing mathematical modelling is bad science, doing so when it leads to hugely damaging public policy is unethical to the point of actively malicious.

If he was a GMC-registered doctor I’d be agitating for him to be struck off, he has done far more damage than Andrew Wakefield could even dream about. But there’s no professional recourse or accountability for academics – that is precisely one of the big problems here.

123939 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stuart Barker, 1, #438 of 1659 🔗

Your suggestion that Wakefield dreams about damaging people is offensive.
If people aren’t keen on anti-vaxx material here, they should have the grace and good manners not to make remarks such as this.

124228 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to JohnB, #439 of 1659 🔗

There are valid discussions to be had about vaccine safety. On the other hand, Wakefield’s research was found to be wilfully fraudulent and unethical and he was rightly punished by the GMC.

124434 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stuart Barker, #440 of 1659 🔗

Bollox on stilts. You sound unaware of the cdc whistleblower Thompson ? There are ‘valid’ discussions to be had on Wakefield’s integrity, methods, and correctness too. As for the GMC …

But you are missing my point. If you throw nasturtiums here, and people who have the cheek to disagree with you respond, it is us who will get pilloried by people nervous about aligning themselves with anti-vaxxers.

Perhaps this isn’t the place ?

124126 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Stuart Barker, #441 of 1659 🔗

Imperial College received funds from the Gates Foundation. That’s all you need to know. Ferguson was just following orders. Where have we heard that before?

123573 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mayo, 4, #442 of 1659 🔗

I do think the code is a bit of a red herring, but I think it’s a bit of both. The initial assumptions are the main problem but I believe there is also a fundamental issue with using predictive modelling to drive public policy. Certainly a policy that has such huge implications on society.

123697 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Achilles, -1, #443 of 1659 🔗

Hmm – Yes & No. Policy makers need to have some idea of the worst possible scenario (among others).

In truth, a ball park figure can be obtained without a complex model. e.g.

1/ Assume all population are susceptible
2/ Assume each individual has same probability of contracting & spreading virus.
3/ Assume R0=2.5
4/ Assume Fatality Rate = 0.9%

UK population = 67 million
If R0 = 2.5 then Herd Immunity reached at 60% infected. Given HI occurs during pandemic a further 20% will be infected during the decline.

Total infected = 80% x 67 = ~54 million

No. of Deaths = 0.9% x 54 = ~490k

Crude but it shows the potential scale. You can now work to bring those numbers down using further research, observations, etc.

I’m still not sure Ferguson’s total infected numbers are that far out but the geographical spread of the population slows the rate of infection.

123779 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mayo, 1, #444 of 1659 🔗

How many respiratory infections, historically, have achieved the total number of infections suggested by the kind of straight SIR model you describe?

How plausible was the 60% infected figure?

How plausible was the IFR figure (not what were the estimates of it at the time, but what would an epidemic disease generally be expected to end up at if those were the estimates of ifr/cfr in the early stages?

Why was it assumed that a new coronavirus would not be subject to a degree of existing immunity, when that phenomenon appears to be well known with flus and colds?

If the numbers had been put forward in honest contexts so it could be clearly seen just how much guesswork was involved and how many alternative low end outcomes were equally or much more likely, then I don’t believe for a second that we would have seen anything like the widespread panic response that we did see. Using worst case assumptions has its place, but especially when you use multiplicative worst case assumptions for your modelling you need to be very clear that the results are likely to be grossly, gratuitously alarmist.

And sure enough, so it came to pass.

123599 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mayo, #445 of 1659 🔗

Mayo, all your posts are anti-LS. WHY????

123941 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Victoria, #446 of 1659 🔗

I could suggest several reasons …

124807 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #447 of 1659 🔗

This is the third evening running that Mayo has generated a very long thread of earnest responses to his/her arguments.

That strikes me as very successful troll behaviour.
Don’t feed the trolls.

123673 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mayo, #448 of 1659 🔗

Royal Society – bankrolled by the Wellcome Trust and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

Try linking to an independent source that is not compromised and I may take it more seriously.

These are also the people behind DELVE and their infamous report on masks used to justify the present policy. (DELVE’s full name is The Royal Society’s “Data Evaluation and Learning for Viral Epidemics”) – note – data evaluation, no medical type people involved. has been covered in full a few times in the comments on this site in the past month.

Can you give links to “the hundreds of models that produce the exact same result” please?

I can’t find any unless the result you are looking for is commonly called “garbage” as in garbage in, garbage out.

As to the R number CMO Chris Whitty stated openly in a videoed parliamentary hearing “If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.” and has NEVER been challenged by MPs, Parliamentary Committees or the MSM in any way, shape or form.

It’s about the only thing he has said in months that has a ring of truth to it.

123675 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 3, #449 of 1659 🔗

You’re at it again. The whole concept of the ‘R’ number is discredited by the revelation (known all along by immunologists but not modellers) that the immune system is dynamic, and infection isn’t binary. The ‘R’ number is a concept derived from a toy model, not the other way round. It has very little to do with reality. If you are going to quote the ‘R’ concept, tell us your definition of ‘infection’. Yesterday you denied that you equated ‘infection’ with antibodies. OK. Tell us your definition today.

123556 Awkward Git, 12, #450 of 1659 🔗

The 1922 Committee had better do a bit more than talk, bombast, bluff and bluster and start making things happen visibly and undeniably.

“In the background” or “behind the scenes” means absolutely nothing.

123557 cloud6, replying to cloud6, 4, #451 of 1659 🔗

If testing is one answer (it’s not reliable) you would have to mass test the population often. Those with daily contact and face to face would have to be tested daily, those taking other measure’s would have to be weekly and results would have to be rapid (in both cases).

The present system is chaotic and not fit for purpose. The system proposed above is impossible as the capacity, lack of a fast test and infrastructure is and never will be available.

So what do we do, we of course live with the virus as we do with all other types of illness.

123649 ▶▶ Julian, replying to cloud6, 4, #452 of 1659 🔗

Mass testing MIGHT be a proportionate and cost effective response to a much more deadly disease, but this one isn’t especially more deadly than bad flu, and it’s pretty well known that it affects badly quite specific groups

It’s not an exceptional public health threat so exceptional measures not appropriate

123558 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 8, #453 of 1659 🔗

Ministers announce new grants for businesses affected by local lockdowns

Businesses in England that are required to shut because of local interventions will now be able to claim up to £1,500 per property every three weeks.

From a selfish point of view, how about the same for travel and tourism businesses that cannot operate due to restrictions and measures in place?

123581 ▶▶ FatBastardMcKenzie, replying to Sarigan, 4, #454 of 1659 🔗

Where is all this grant money coming from? My council tax going to £10k a quarter?!

123586 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sarigan, 4, #455 of 1659 🔗

And where is this magic money tree that the government appears to have, and can I have one??

123613 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lms23, 6, #456 of 1659 🔗

Same tree that the £100 Billion testing will come from, I believe it is in Sherwood Forest somewhere.

123619 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sarigan, 3, #457 of 1659 🔗

If you’re talking about the Major Oak, it’s hollow and needs to be propped up to stop it toppling.

123561 Jay Berger, 11, #458 of 1659 🔗

Israel: locking down strict and early, mandating masks from the start and tracking, tracing and cracking down on citizens efficiently.
Result: ruin and the biggest Coronavirus infection surge of all.
Conclusion: if there is a relationship between lockdowns and virus infections, it’s inverse.
And the same is true for masks.
But then, maybe that surge in infections was and is the real goal of all politicians outside of Sweden. For whatever reason.

123577 ▶▶ matt, replying to Marie R, #460 of 1659 🔗

Signed, for what it’s worth.

However, the issue at hand isn’t really about repealing the act, it’s about ensuring that it isn’t extended at the end of this month.

123600 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Marie R, 1, #461 of 1659 🔗

Signed. Though agree with Matt, for all the good it will do. Just feel so bloody helpless right now.

123799 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Marie R, 1, #462 of 1659 🔗


123566 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 40, #463 of 1659 🔗

At the begining the joke was about enjoying your free trial of 21 days of Communism . Personally now we are into our 7 th month of this sham medical totalitarian state the joke has turned rather sour.

Yesterday was an early morning visit to the barber as despite my senior medical status I still have my own hair …and teeth unlike Whitty and Vallance.The barber told me the rules had been changed and did I have a mask …. I really couldnt be bothered to say I am exempt or that I don’t wear one because I follow evidence based medicine. I just said no .

He searched around and I thought he was going to offer me his own !! Instead he decided to swiftly close the door so no snitch could see. I felt I was in some war movie in occupied France. It is nuts.

123739 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #464 of 1659 🔗

At the begining the joke was about enjoying your free trial of 21 days of Communism . Personally now we are into our 7 th month of this sham medical totalitarian state”

Did someone in government forget to cancel the direct debt again?

123743 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #465 of 1659 🔗

We need a new satirical version of Allo Allo.

123789 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Thinkaboutit, 5, #466 of 1659 🔗

We already have a Lieutenant Gruber

124072 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Thinkaboutit, #467 of 1659 🔗

Haha maybe… if only to see how many are triggered by a character called, ‘Mimi LaBonq’ 🙂

123569 Sam Vimes, 18, #468 of 1659 🔗

I’m probably late to the party, but here’s your Covipass, right here:

And he said that “in the near future” he wanted to start using testing “to identify people who are negative – who don’t have coronavirus and who are not infectious – so we can allow them to behave in a more normal way, in the knowledge they cannot infect anyone else”.

Or, as we used to say, “Papers, please?”

123570 Anthony, replying to Anthony, 5, #469 of 1659 🔗

The current YouyGov poll makes for some depressing reading.

It seems like the majority support the new 6 person rules, would support a curfew and think the most important thing is to save EVERY life.

Hard to believe

123578 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Anthony, 10, #470 of 1659 🔗

They think saving every life from Covid is important. Deaths from cancer, suicide, economic depression, etc. they don’t seem too bothered about.

123596 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Anthony, 6, #471 of 1659 🔗

Painful to believe, but not hard. As someone said, stupidity is more prevalent than hydrogen, and they are out there. They still think we will all die without a magic vaccine. And because so many believe that so strongly, this government can, and will, do what it likes.

123608 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Anthony, 4, #472 of 1659 🔗

How many supported communism in the USSR, as opposed to just going along with it? And then, when it failed to deliver, it collapsed, although the decade long aftermath in Russia was likely worse. I think we are headed for a Russia-style collapse. And one phrase I have come across in relation to that decade-long event – not surprising given the economic advice of people like Dr Jeffrey Sachs – is, “hidden famine.”

123623 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Anthony, 3, #473 of 1659 🔗

Yes the Yahoo poll was 76 / 24 in favour of these new measures. Extraordinary. We have work to do. At least it’s better than it was, at the start 95% or so supported lockdown. Nuts!

124134 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #474 of 1659 🔗

What was the exact question and how was the question shaped? Polling tricks. And who did they poll? Here, in Quebec, it’s almost always 1006 people. Is that a magic number?

123628 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Anthony, 1, #475 of 1659 🔗

as mentioned elsewhere the yougov poll is unscientific – you can complete it without login etc. i did it yesterday and today. so it is simple to influence with bots or lots of squaddies . But clearly from your response it then seems to have an element of veracity even if it is bullshit

123635 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Anthony, 6, #476 of 1659 🔗

Never believe a Yougov poll any more than a statement from Christopher Whitty.

123686 ▶▶ Richard Brooks, replying to Anthony, 9, #477 of 1659 🔗

The pole results are not so depressing when you consider the very biased question:

Would you support or oppose the introduction of a curfew (a time each day after which people are not allowed to leave their homes) between 10pm and 5am to help prevent a second wave of COVID-19?”

The question presents as fact that:

  1. A second wave of deaths is coming
  2. A curfew will help prevent this

If those two were facts, then I would perhaps vote to support it, but the question should be:

Would you support or oppose the introduction of a curfew (a fundamental breach of basic human rights) between 10pm and 5am when it will make no difference to anyone’s health but it will make Matt Hancock look like he is in control of the situation?”

Put in that way I think the poll would produce very different answers.

124502 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Richard Brooks, #478 of 1659 🔗

Hello Richard, is Private Eye all over this, haven’t read it for a few years now?

124813 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, #479 of 1659 🔗

I’ve heard depressing reports about Private Eye recently.

123580 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 18, #480 of 1659 🔗

“here we still are, in Sept, threats of lockdowns, Maskism, MSM still pumping out fear, claiming asymptomatic (poss false) positive tests ‘cases’, no context etc etc. With the democratic process shut down (and/or locked in orthodoxy) and Govt ruling by capricious diktat, backed by the Police and prosecutors, our judiciary silent and anyone who asks reasonable questions about the proportionality of NPIs (let alone wants to protest) closed down”

Tell me it’s any different in the majority of other countries. It’s not just this government. We saw the photo of the Spanish lifeguard being arrested by a couple of police in full protective clothing, as if she had Ebola or something.

“here we are, months later, about to witness the collapse of many Western economies and plunge millions in this country alone into relative poverty and allow hundreds of millions to succumb to starvation and medical abandonment in the developing world. I do wonder why the Left has just allowed this nonsense to grip when this was known to be the inevitable outcome back in April”

The worst offenders across the world are left-wing governments. Just look at Democrat-run California, Jacinda Ardern’s New Zealand, Victoria in Australia which is not run by a conservative PM.
It seems to me that these measures are being imposed by governments in line with the revolutionary Marxist-run WHO, the socialist-dominated UN, which is also in thrall to climate change nonsense.
Our government tolerates BLM and XR protests, but not those who oppose them, or those who protest against illegal immigration.

Toby doesn’t think it’s a conspiracy.
But lets face it, when it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck….

123618 ▶▶ James, replying to Lms23, 2, #481 of 1659 🔗

Keep pestering Toby. He will give in eventually. Try different angles. There are many ways the conspiracy thing can be explained and some are less controversial than others.

123786 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to James, 2, #482 of 1659 🔗

There seems to be a rule for mainstream media journalists that you can’t mention anything / or agree with anyone that Wikipedia links with conspiracy theories or calls anti-vaxx. It’s like a CIA control mechanism. Would a mainstream journalist (who all loved Robert F Kennedy Junior when he was involved with the green movement) write anything but a hack piece today? No mainstream journalist will dare go near Agenda 21 or 30, ID2020 or the Great Reset – all public knowledge but unquestionable.

123621 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Lms23, 3, #483 of 1659 🔗

Sweden is a social democracy and has been very grown up about it. While we have a populist right wing government but they have gone mad. Yes, the Left love the opportunity to demonstrate the interventionist power of the state in the name of the collective, but it’s not wholly consistent. Southern US states perhaps most predictable in their approach.

123728 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #484 of 1659 🔗

we have a populist right wing government


Need to examine closely your beliefs about what constitutes “right wing”, clearly, if not just supporting but almost worshipping collective state healthcare, condoning police “taking the knee” to radical leftist and anti-white racist anarchist mobs while funding endless “diversity awareness” indoctrination and supporting “hate speech” censorship is your idea of “right wing” then your ideas are pretty far removed from any kind of realistic perspective.

“Populist” of course is generally used as a term of abuse, but in practice usually just means “sensible ideas that the left hates”.

123804 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mark, 3, #485 of 1659 🔗

I don’t see much right wing about the Conservatives. They certainly favour big business – particularly large multinationals. They seem very keen on the nanny state and petty rules which they always criticise when they aren’t in power. They broadly support BLM and the Green movement and completely demonise anti-lock down freedom protests.

Funnily enough they always promise a bonfire of regulations and simplification of the tax system – but it always seems like a continuation of the work going on over decades – like there is a controlling hand.

123945 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Darryl, 4, #486 of 1659 🔗

Important to bear in mind that there is absolutely nothing right wing about supporting big business these days, because much of big business and big money is in the hands of more or less openly left wing management and ownership. As Toby and Delingpole point out in their latest podcast , BLM and XR are not rebels against an oppressive establishment, they are the establishment’s shock troops.

124086 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Mark, 2, #487 of 1659 🔗

True. Look at the US, in general terms, a lot of the big companies, certainly all of big tech: lot of love for the Democrats. Wealthiest Congressional districts (currently, probably not in the ensuing few months) something like 80%, 40/50: Democrat.

123671 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lms23, 4, #488 of 1659 🔗

Boris and his inner circle either are, or have been, infiltrated by neo-Marxists. At some point the Tory party via the 1922 Committee will realise this and get rid of them. Mid October is the key turning point in my view, although that might not be completely evident until the end of the year. Boris will not be in place on 1 January 2021.

123735 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #489 of 1659 🔗

I think it will happen sooner. But prepare for Olympic level gymnastics in double speak

124141 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #490 of 1659 🔗

We might have a Happy New Year after all.

123731 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Lms23, 5, #491 of 1659 🔗

I cant say whether it’s right or left wing. Taken to extreme they are both totalitarian which is what we’ve got. We need a new word for full-on dictatorship without the “right/left” connotations which only work at local level. This is a globalist plot which is being masterminded by a few. A psychopathocracy.

124958 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Thinkaboutit, #492 of 1659 🔗

I’ve seen the word ‘technocracy’ cropping up in a few places.

123774 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Lms23, 2, #493 of 1659 🔗

It looked suspiciously like a war against the people around the world from day one. No one in the mainstream media will ever acknowledge any of the so called ‘conspiracies’ because they are fully complicit in promoting the ‘new normal’ and the ‘new green deal’ and all the other scams. Watch the mainstream media coverage of the Australian anti-lockdown protests verses the reality on the ground https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yxOCq1C2os we are being completely lied to.

It is the Great Reset they even admit it! what more do people want as evidence.

124135 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lms23, 1, #494 of 1659 🔗

It’s a duck!

124815 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, #495 of 1659 🔗

However, he started a sentence with “I’m not a conspiracy theorist but… ”
A good sign!

123584 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #496 of 1659 🔗

I’ve got this suspicion that this is a typical con and BS from Bojo and his school prefects ( cabinet)
Frighten the people,bring in stupid,useless and damaging measures then “Surprise, surprise” around the end of October he announces that “because of the measures we have taken, etc,etc I can announce that we can ease down the lockdown measures, etc in time for Christmas”
The people (he hopes) will spill out onto the streets singing “Good old Boris,etc” and he will have conned everyone with obvious exceptions(lockdown sceptics) again just as he did last December.

123591 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #497 of 1659 🔗

No chance. Full lockdown coming. Planned all along.

123598 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Andrew, 3, #498 of 1659 🔗

But will the people,not the sheep, stand for it?
When the Daily Mail questions the actions of a Conservative(BOJO) government,surely there must be hope.

123609 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #499 of 1659 🔗

The tipping point could be when the furlough payments dry up. The gov know that though.

123847 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Andrew, 2, #500 of 1659 🔗

They won’t dry up, there is no way they will be able to keep up this controlling agenda with millions of unemployed people taking to the streets.

If they can find £100bn for their “Moonshot” program from the magic money tree, they can magic up more cash to keep people from rioting from job losses.

123614 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #501 of 1659 🔗

The DM is not consistently questioning, their editorial line is wobbling but judging by their awful headline yesterday blaming Gen Z for all this, I suspect they have a way to go before they stand against it all. Recall that much of the media loves a good catastrophe.

123760 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #502 of 1659 🔗

I believe The Times is the paper that matters the most to those in power between elections. The Conservative only try to appeal to Daily Mail and Telegraph readers coming up to an election, other than that they ignore them.

The Times today was incredibly pro-establishment and Big Pharma – and scathing of the anti-lockdown movement in a leading opinion piece. There is absolutely no hope from The Times.

123622 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Andrew, 2, #503 of 1659 🔗

Christmas will be the pinch-point. Kids coming back from Uni, families getting together, etc. We will find out then which way the government will go but I haven’t seen anything over the last few months to give me any sense of optimism.

123752 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #504 of 1659 🔗

Nope, Wancock wants to cancel Christmas too much. Think how sad and sorry he can look whilst explaining that it’s essential to keep us all safe.

123607 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 12, #505 of 1659 🔗

Get writing to your MPs. I’ve pasted below the e-mail I plan to send. Feel free to use it as inspiration and/or to suggest improvements:

Dear [my MP],

As my MP, I am writing to ask you to vote against the renewal of powers afforded to the government under the Coronavirus Act, if and when you get the opportunity to do so later this month. I well understand that the novel coronavirus presents a significant health risk to vulnerable people, but that risk has to be understood in the context of the risks inherent in living a normal life, and of the deleterious effects of this act.

You don’t need me to tell you that the powers afforded to the government under this act represent an extraordinary incursion into our fundamental freedoms, impinging on our rights to liberty, family life, religious practice and political association, at least (articles 5, 8, 9 and 11 of the Human Rights Act 1998). Moreover, in the period that this legislation has been in force the laws governing us have repeatedly been made and changed by ministerial decree, with barely any parliamentary scrutiny except on a retrospective basis. This is not a situation that should persist in a supposedly free country. The civil liberties advocacy group Liberty is taking the same view .

The original rationale for the act was that it was needed to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed. Whatever the merits of this reasoning at the time, it does not apply now: the government’s own data show that deaths, hospital admissions, bed occupancy and ventilator usage have all tailed off dramatically and not picked up in any significant sense with the relaxation of lockdown measures. The recent fixation on a supposed increase in “cases” is just the latest example during this epidemic of the goalposts being moved. What conclusions should anyone be drawing from this “increase” when there has been a relentless increase in the number of tests carried out? And when, according to both SAGE and PHE , even a relatively small number of false positives can produce a statistically significant effect when the prevalence of the virus is as low as it is now?

But in fact, there is very good reason to believe that the measures were unnecessary in the first place. Again, according to the government’s own data , COVID-19 deaths in the UK peaked on 8 April. Given that multiple studies have shown the mean time from infection to death to be around three weeks, this means that new infections peaked at least a week before the Prime Minister’s speech of 23 March. In other words, the R number was brought below 1 without the need for the measures contained in this act, and in fact without the need for any coercive measures at all. The Chief Medical Officer for England admitted as much in evidence to the Health and Social Care Committee on 21 July. The conclusion is unavoidable that the virus can be kept under control without the need for the powers contained in this act. Given how objectionable the act is on its own terms, this is what should be done.

Your sincerely,

123656 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to mattghg, 4, #506 of 1659 🔗

I’ve just emailed mine with something similar and I’m telling all my friends and family to do do as well. Everybody I know is well and truly fucked off with it all.

123664 ▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to mattghg, 3, #507 of 1659 🔗

I’ve just emailed mine. Tried to appeal to her Labour sensibilities regarding mental health, other NHS services, education and restrictions to religious festivals. Advocated a “more appropriate and holistic strategy with cross-party input”. Hope it works and we don’t get stuck with something even worse.

123668 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to mattghg, 2, #508 of 1659 🔗

Brilliant, many thanks. I’m going to email it now and put the template on my FB page.

124158 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Moomin, 1, #509 of 1659 🔗

You’re welcome.

123699 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to mattghg, 2, #510 of 1659 🔗

Great content, but could I make one suggestion. Considering they are likely to skim over most if not all correspondence, and thus likely to miss crucial aspects of your argument, possibly consider putting the salient points as bullet points at the very beginning of the document and keep the rest as it is should they want further detail. Aim to engage their attention from the onset.

123975 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Nsklent, #511 of 1659 🔗


124069 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Nsklent, 1, #512 of 1659 🔗

Yes – I put in the subject box of my email “Coronavirus Act 2020 – Do Not Renew”. And the first and last sentences of my email text were direct requests that the Act should not be renewed.

123775 ▶▶ Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, replying to mattghg, 2, #513 of 1659 🔗

Many thanks. Have done so and added a final paragraph outling the personal catastrophe this has caused to my livelihood and industry (opera, concerts, performing arts).

123610 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 35, #514 of 1659 🔗

Why is no one in the medical profession shouting from the rooftops – forget spending billions on pointless daily tests on the healthy( since when was it a sensible thing to do this?!). Spend the money and resources on clearing up The backlog of cancer, cardiac and other actual medical cases- which present CURRENT serious risk of deaths. How can wancock say he’s interested in ‘keeping people safe’ with a straight face. Odious man, drunk on his own power and with zero humanity or empathy. My 80 year old mother( a ‘granny’) is livid at his comments. The whole charade makes me feel physically sick. The public should be enraged. I almost feel like an alien in my own country now. Simply don’t recognise it.

123633 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Telpin, 5, #515 of 1659 🔗

Also to advertise to all that they should work on improving their immunity systems (prevention is better than cure)

123647 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Victoria, 8, #516 of 1659 🔗

Exactly…constantly referring to “symptoms of the disease” reinforces a false mindset. Most “symptoms” are symptoms of the body fighting back and, in 99% of cases, our bodies fight back very successfully. We are nearly all of us walking miracles (laboratories on legs) when it comes to our ability to deal with a huge range of pathogens, of all types.

123634 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Telpin, 8, #517 of 1659 🔗

Why? General cowardice, PC herd behaviour and censorship by BBC, Sky, ITV, and Global News account for the apparent silence.

123659 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to OKUK, 14, #518 of 1659 🔗

As a senior medical professional I take a little offence at that . The main reason is fear. You and I might not be a paid up member of the new cult with its promise of heaven and hell and associated rituals for the true believers , but I can assure you 75 % of the population are from my conversations with patients.

Any scepticism on my part has to be done very carefully because I fear being denounced on social media by a patient.. ” granny killer doctor fails to wear rubber gloves in consultation ” , or one of the supreme guardians of the cult the pratice staff.

123669 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #519 of 1659 🔗

I understand your predicament but I think the Royal College Knights and Dames could speak up much more: shout it from the highest hills, one might say.

123685 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 6, #520 of 1659 🔗

What I personally would like to see more of would be the names of ‘senior NHS management’ responsible for mandating most of the nonsense.

124159 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Telpin, #521 of 1659 🔗

That’s part of The Global Reset.

123626 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 12, #522 of 1659 🔗

It’s extremely worrying that Mad Prof Ferguson who with his fantasy figures was responsible for persuading the government to introduce the initial death-dealing lockdown, now is smiling upon the latest policy turn by Bozo and Co.

It’s further concerning that the BBC is reporting this in triumphalist tones. And it’s also very, very irritating that our “trusted broadcaster” never reminds us that the Mad Prof broke the social distancing rules multiple times to go shag his bit on the side. They are always happy to remind us of Dominic Cummings’ alleged misdemeanours in relation to social distancing.

123676 ▶▶ Will, replying to OKUK, 4, #523 of 1659 🔗

Given his track record, if Ferguson thinks it is right it is almost certainly wrong.

123629 Victoria, 2, #524 of 1659 🔗

News from the US

Doctors’ group: HCQ-hoarding FDA cares more about power than Americans’ lives

123638 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 5, #525 of 1659 🔗

Can I claim ignorance of the new rules on the basis that I’m a Guardian reader – which doesn’t appear to think these drastic new curtailments on civil liberties are newsworthy?


123646 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to zacaway, 3, #526 of 1659 🔗

No, but you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself for being a Guardian reader.

123777 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to JohnB, #527 of 1659 🔗

Actually I stopped reading that a long time ago, just had a look out of curiosity.

123767 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to zacaway, 1, #528 of 1659 🔗

Unbelievable.it wasn’t even a minor headline.

123641 DRW, 4, #529 of 1659 🔗

I wonder if at least some of the Moonshot tech does exist but it’s just being held for optimum timing. So come November, Poppycock can threaten to cancel Christmas if an ‘enrolment target’ isn’t met. As others have suggested before, they may have planned this for a vaccine but with phase 3 trials going pear-shaped they’ve had to dial back to just the IDs.

123644 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 14, #530 of 1659 🔗

The Coronavirus doesn’t fulfill any of the established criteria for the usefulness, need and acceptability of a vaccine.
The virus mutates, any vaccine will be ineffective.
The virus can’t be eradicated, as it will still always be around in animals.
The mortality risk is skewed to a small group, and this is basically equal to the general mortality risk and profile.
It therefore makes absolutely no sense for anyone under the age of roughly 70 to consider getting vaccinated in light of that vaccination’s huge risks (as demonstrated by and in all of their trials sofar) – unless one demands and considers it to be a price to be paid for establishing herd immunity and establishes, quantifies and raises that price through discrimination or sanctions of those who refuse.
Vaccinating children is criminal in light of them being not statistically significant affected (risk of death similar to being struck by lightning) and in light of these vaccination risks, which cannot even be assessed properly because of the rushed development of all those vaccines.
And mRNA, DNA and vector vaccines main long term and impossible to assess or rule out, for at least another 25 years, risk through reverse transciptase seems to be oncologic, an increased risk of cancer, but they should also never be allowed to be given to anyone still capable or willing to reproduce:
we simply don’t know whether the DNA of the offspring of a herewith vaccinated person will be altered or not, and whether that will have positive or negative effects.
Everything is imaginable here, e.g. maybe those future newborns will all be Supermen and Superwomen, maybe there is no change at all, maybe they will all die immediately/upon contact with a coronavirus, maybe only two mRNA vaccinated parents will have healthy children, maybe parents must have had a mix of vaccines for that, and so on.
In light of our lack of and impossible to establish for another 10-25 years knowledge in those regards, the odds for each scenario, the positive, neutral and negative one, are currently the same: 33% each.
Why risk that, if the neutral outcome is the guaranteed one anyway for those age groups?!
It’s really high time, in particular for parents and adolescents, to wake up and demand a halt to this criminal madness.

123679 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #531 of 1659 🔗

Good post Jay. Anyone who hasn’t yet responded to the consultation needs to do so – and keep a copy of what you submit!

123734 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #532 of 1659 🔗

Don’t read the Times article by David Aaronovitch today. I get the impression he would like anyone who doesn’t get the Covid vaccine immediately to be imprisoned in their home or preferably sent to a detention camp.

Questioning anything the government or Big Pharma tells us is soon to become illegal. Apparently we are incapable of making calculated decisions regarding risks / benefits for ourselves anymore. Really annoys me that the civil service thinks they can govern every aspect of our lives and the media meekly go along with every step.

124408 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, #533 of 1659 🔗

Aaronovitch is an establishment shill, pure and simple.

124162 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #534 of 1659 🔗

If all viruses mutate then producing a vaccine is a complete waste of time and money that could be better spent elsewhere.

123652 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #535 of 1659 🔗

Mandatory crawling: if it saves one life it will be worth it.

123653 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to OKUK, 4, #536 of 1659 🔗

Well in Japan there is a lot of bowing and they’ve done pretty well so maybe there’s something in it?

123662 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Achilles, #537 of 1659 🔗


123680 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to OKUK, #538 of 1659 🔗


The Limbo Rock-‘how low can you go?’

124170 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to wendyk, 1, #539 of 1659 🔗

I would love to see Boris and his minions do The Limbo Rock. On national TV. That would knock them off their high horses a peg.

123660 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 9, #540 of 1659 🔗

How appropriate that the next piece of lunacy is being dubbed by its proponents as “Moonshot” – although Moonshine would be even better. Bozo has clearly lost his marbles. £100 billion to test well people all backed up by a gargantuan bureaucracy?

Lunatism is the new Conservatism.

123742 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to OKUK, 4, #541 of 1659 🔗

Except until Handjob allows it, well people absolutely must NOT have tests because we’re running out of tests and it’s all their fault for having tests like he asked them to last week because he didn’t think that lots of people having tests would use up test kits, and if they continue to have tests they’re KILLING GRANNY… But as soon as he says so it will be compulsory for well people to have a test or they won’t be allowed to leave their house, and if they don’t have a test they’re KILLING GRANNY. Got it?

123764 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #542 of 1659 🔗

Yes, it’s utter bollox!

123661 Moomin, 23, #543 of 1659 🔗

From the post above:

Like many others, I thought that the propaganda wouldn’t survive contact with the bright daylight of facts (and the v obvious shifting of Govt ‘strategy’).’

I thought the same! To be honest, and no disrespect, but I had hoped that by now I wouldn’t be looking on the Lockdown Sceptics website anymore since I thought that common sense would prevail and that there’d be no need for this website! How wrong I was!

I don’t know if it’s because I’m very tired today but I feel so despondent. We are being governed by cranks and I question Johnson’s sanity.

Please will someone get us out of this mess!

123666 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #544 of 1659 🔗

Your Chance To Decide – Conspiracy?

Peru went into lockdown 16th March – 911 deaths per million (the highest death rate in the world after San Marino)

Brazil – no lockdown – 602 deaths per million

123667 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 9, #545 of 1659 🔗

I’ve moved from poo-pooing conspiracy to believing it’s the only explanation for the continuing and unrelenting repression after the virus has died away to a background murmur.

What I couldn’t work out is the end game. Why? What are they after – this world cabal?

I should have been following the money. Davos. The Bilderberg Group. It’s ALWAYS the money. I think they’re doing this to get tight control of the population because of the upcoming financial crash. The trillions and trillions everybody owes everybody has to be reformed and soon. It just cannot be allowed to go ,it’s unsustainable and it’s becoming very unstable. The world financial system is broke. But what would happen whilst it is reshaped? Normal trade would cease. Billions would starve. Riots. Back to the dark ages. Civilisation effectively ends. UNLESS – unless, suddenly, there is only one world entity. Then nobody would owe anybody else, because there wouldn’t be anybody else. The ‘entity’ would have to control everything, of course. Production, food, distribution. Everything to keep the population alive. But no trade. It’s sort of Marxism, yes. It’s certainly totalitarianism, in the literal sense of the word. It’s THEM doing this for our own good. Gee – thanks. Now fuck off.

123722 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #546 of 1659 🔗

It’s also the only way I can justify things, despite all the positive data they plough on with destructive measures. It can’t just be group think.

The most powerful companies and people in the world have done very well – just look at the share prices of the Big Tech companies. Unfortunately, the poorest are suffering the most, just look at the queues for food in the US (and that is a rich country!).

Many of the most powerful and wealthiest people in the world before WW1 and WW2 emerged more powerful and wealthy at the end of it. It will be the same after WW3 (the war against the masses) – that is if we let them win.

123773 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #547 of 1659 🔗

“It’s sort of Marxism”

Not by any known definition. It is totalitarianism – Mussolini and Franco are the nearest neighbours.

123821 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #548 of 1659 🔗

Welcome to the wonderful world of being a conspiracy theory (but rapidly heading towards fact) nutter land as we are portrayed constantly and not just on this subject.

Post it on social media and wait for the howls and condemnation no matter what facts you post.

124173 ▶▶▶ kate, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #549 of 1659 🔗

Yes, I can remember a friend of mine telling me about Davos and the WEF when this started, and I did not believe her. I thought the virus was an accidental lab escape and that was why there was the overreaction. But no, it has definitely been planned from the start and the propaganda is increasing, not dying down.
I now think the underlying reason is to restructure a collapsing global financial system

124838 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #550 of 1659 🔗

Just got a thankyou for posting the link to Ivor Cummins latest on fb.

123672 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #551 of 1659 🔗

Liberty petition


When the left joins in something might move

123740 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #552 of 1659 🔗

Thanks. Signed.

123677 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #553 of 1659 🔗

Comments about MP’s not questioning the lockdown

Not surprised. They didn’t get where they are today by having principals. They would have been weeded out early on in the process if they had principals

What they will want to do however, is be on the winning side. So they will wait. They will sit on the sidelines smiling and attending coffee mornings with the WI, careful never to answer a question

When the final whistle blows, they will announce that they backed the winning side all along, but that we were just not astute enough to notice it

123725 ▶▶ Hampshire Sceptic, replying to Cecil B, 2, #554 of 1659 🔗

I am pretty sure our new boy Tory MP won’t rock the boat as he clearly wants to be something like Parliamentary Under Secretary for Paper Clips. Its a great pity we have a parliament dominated by professional politicians rather than by people of principle.

123925 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hampshire Sceptic, #555 of 1659 🔗

Likewise ours, who replaced Phillip Hammond..

123678 Andrew, 5, #556 of 1659 🔗

1000 Doctors agree this is all a scam. Must watch and share.

123681 Victoria, 1, #557 of 1659 🔗

Up to 90% of COVID-19 “positive” test results are false, test kits matching dead viral fragments that pose no infection risk

123682 Small guy, replying to Small guy, 5, #558 of 1659 🔗

There was much noise made about a spike in deaths earlier in the week to justify the latest madness. Where is it:
1st-8th Sep daily deaths:
3,9,3,4,8,6,7,2 (total 42).
24th-31st Aug daily deaths:
5,9,10,7,4,2,3,6 (total 46)

Answers on a virtual postcard please…

123704 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Small guy, 1, #559 of 1659 🔗

The Gov.UK site has 32 for 8th Sept.

NHS England (hospitals) has 2

It would be scurrilous to suggest that the 32 spike was somehow contrived for the day before the announcements.
And there is no conclusion to be drawn from the fact the PHE has form with inflating numbers.

123712 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Andy Riley, 2, #560 of 1659 🔗

Quite right. The 30,000 double counted tests, the 1.3 Million double counted tests and the 5000 odd false deaths were all just ‘alternative facts’.

123718 ▶▶▶ Small guy, replying to Andy Riley, #561 of 1659 🔗

Where do you see 32 for the 8th? I see 3. Have they just changed it?

123727 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Small guy, 1, #562 of 1659 🔗

The 32 were spread over quite a few days, it was just ‘announced’ on the 8th.

123729 ▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Small guy, #563 of 1659 🔗

It’s on the “Deaths within 28 days of positive test by date reported, by nation” chart.
They also have a date of death chart, with non spikey numbers. So I jumped the gun with my suspicious comments.

123736 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Andy Riley, 2, #564 of 1659 🔗

Perhaps you didn’t jump the gun. How strange that they managed to pick up 32 deaths to report – on the day in question. They wouldn’t have been building up a “stockpile” to suddenly release when the time was right? No, they wouldn’t do that.

123769 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Tenchy, 1, #565 of 1659 🔗

Good point. I had that thought earlier but then forgot it!
In fact I then had the thought that this could be demonstrated or weakened by going back to see if there is a correlation between these “administrative spikes” and subsequent announcements.

123765 ▶▶▶▶▶ Small guy, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #566 of 1659 🔗

No you were right first time.

BTW, cComparing the two graphs, totals 1st-8th Sep :
‘By date graph’ : Eng, 51, NI 6, Sco 3, Wal 0
‘By reported graph’ : Eng, 71, NI 7, Sco 5, Wal 2

Funny how PHE continually has ‘reported’ numbers which meet the govt propaganda agenda.

124180 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Andy Riley, #567 of 1659 🔗

They make up new shit all the time. Wankers!

123684 R G, replying to R G, 14, #568 of 1659 🔗

“Who do you think you are, the Covid bloody Stasi?”
“Well actually, yes.”

It will soon be possible to have this exchange in a British town centre.

123690 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to R G, 1, #569 of 1659 🔗

Does anyone know if they will be armed…. no I’m not joking

123694 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cecil B, 8, #570 of 1659 🔗

We owe it to ourselves to disown – if not tar and feather – anyone we know that signs up to be one of them.

123713 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Cecil B, 1, #571 of 1659 🔗

Possibly long sticks to begin with like the religious mullahs in Saudi, then once bored with whacking our ankles they may request tasers.

123692 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to R G, 6, #572 of 1659 🔗

Once they are in place, they will be able to check lots of things, won’t they? Mandatory public masks, one way pavements, “Second shopping trip this week, sir?”, “Can I see your Covipass, please, as you know you shouldn’t be out without it” etc…

123717 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #573 of 1659 🔗

And people will bow their heads and comply..And if you don’t your friendly neighborhood armed Police officers are going to be there to support these brave Marshals if god forbid any dissent occurs. Well if you comply , you have nothing to fear the MSM will say. My parents grew up in E Europe during Communism and my father has been getting quieter and quieter as weeks progress..He has seen it before so he knows what is coming and how ti feels..

123747 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Thomas_E, 5, #574 of 1659 🔗

Now, that *is* worrying.

123922 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #575 of 1659 🔗

That is precisely why it should NOT be allowed to happen..

124188 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #576 of 1659 🔗

It appears that PM Johnson really approves of all this. Shameful.

124844 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #577 of 1659 🔗

If they are sent into the towns, it will be another nail in the retail sector coffin.

124183 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to R G, #578 of 1659 🔗

Throw them in a peat bog.

123698 Simon, replying to Simon, 12, #579 of 1659 🔗

Listening to Peter hitchens making fun of the government rules I think we should go one further. The picture at the bottom could be printed and stuckaround the busiest places in your local area.

The falling tortoise example he gave is funny, but then so is the risk of putting on trousers. So trouser wearing should be banned (think image of people in their underwear on the metro in New York). Was it 6 people who died doing this last year?

Having a bath too is too risky. Crossing the road, wear a traffic cone on your head…

We need to laugh at all of this as it will probably be the only way to defeat them :>)

123708 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Simon, 3, #580 of 1659 🔗

Procreation is the biggest factor contributing to death. It should be number one on the list of things to ban.

No life = No death

123719 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #581 of 1659 🔗

The crime isssss life … The ssssentence isssss deathhhhhh…

123795 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mr Dee, #582 of 1659 🔗

Quick get the Boing

124203 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nobody2020, #583 of 1659 🔗

Depopulation for the Nation.

124202 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Simon, 2, #584 of 1659 🔗

Yeah, but they had to put on their underwear first. That could be dangerous as well. Let’s all go naked.

I attended a Rolling Stones concert at Maple Leaf Garden in 1975. It was hot and muggy before the Stones came on stage. Really humid. I casually told the young woman that it was so humid that we should all take off our clothes. She stood and socially distanced herself from me a few more seats. Later, during the concert, Mick Jagger remarked how hot and humid it was and that we should all take off our clothes and the crowd cheered and roared.

123700 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #585 of 1659 🔗

Apologies if this has already been posted – I’m just catching up with developments. Here’s an example of “covidiocy” on the part of an airline and its staff. It’s the sort of thing that makes your blood boil:


And how’s this for consultant-speak bollocks:

“Our crew requested the presence of the authorities after the guests [passengers] refused to comply with Transport Canada’s interim order and subsequently refused to deplane [leave] the aircraft.”

I hope the airline goes bust.

123706 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tenchy, 4, #586 of 1659 🔗

“Deplane the aircraft”. So, the plane was on another plane, was it? Novel.

123703 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #587 of 1659 🔗

I have a friend who suffers from psychological issues. He believes that he is a messenger of God and has been brought to earth to do his bidding. It was something that I did a little research into a while back.

I found evidence of many people around the world with a similar mindset. They have committed crimes and used something called the “Jesus made me do it” defence. The severity of acts committed range from minor misdemeanors to actual murder. The idea is that these people believe what they’ve done is justified because of some belief that it was a righteous act. To most rational minded people this is not a valid defence in any way shape or form.

When we look at what has happened and is still happening, I don’t really see much difference between killing, or letting people die, and causing untold suffering on millions of people in a belief that it is the right thing to do and the “Jesus made me do it” mindset.

124849 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #588 of 1659 🔗

Oh no, this lot can’t be allowed to get away with the insanity defence!

123705 Darryl, 16, #589 of 1659 🔗

I was truly staggered at the level of state propaganda in the Times today, they really are fully behind the government and Big Pharma. Endless pro-establishment articles and adverts.

There was an incredibly dehumanising opinion piece on lockdown sceptics and anyone who won’t be in a rush to get a vaccine. I have a feeling anyone deemed anti-vaxx by the Times and establishment might soon be on a cattle truck and in striped pyjamas. I believe they are building up the hatred so they can act brutally against any dissent. And yet this is meant to be a free country, what a joke.

The UK governments strategy is clearly now to make life miserable for months to get everyone to have a mandatory rushed vaccine and digital vaccination passport.

123716 Roadrash, 17, #590 of 1659 🔗

So in keeping with the new religion….

”and the Lord Master Boris sayeth “ thou shall count to the number 6 and the number of the counting shall be 6. Neither shall thou count to 7 nor higher for thy numbers greater than 6 are false and evil and shall not be uttered for they Are displeasing to our Lord Master. Thy Master’s Servants of Covid, thy Marshall’s shall verily issue wrath against his people for gathering in False numbers and shall beat upon the number breakers and issue a mighty tax, for they are evil and dirty and spreaders of disease. Nor do they worship thy Master as prescribed by the Great Law and must be punished.

Thy pleasures of life are False Pleasures and those that stray from the path of True Pseudoscience must be punished under the Great Law for they are not pleasing to our Master.

Thy true believers shall follow the path of enlightenment in word and deed.

  • Thou shall not touch of another person
  • Thou shall not gather in celebration
  • Thou shall cover thy mouth lest thy evil humours spread disease
  • Thou shall not doubt of the Word of the Master nor countenance false prophets who speak Facts
  • Thou shall receive thy Master’s vaccine for the risk to thy person matters not for the Greater Good.
  • Thou shall carry idols of thy love for the Master with thou wherever thou go. This shall be thy Digital Passport and shall be proof positive that thou are a True Believer
  • Thou shall teach thy children of the True Path and of thy Master’s love lest they stray for the True Path and indulge in False Pleasures
  • Thou shall not give creedence to false positives for they are not True Facts
  • Thou shall beat upon thine enemy, the Swedish, for they are not followers of the True Path and are hurtful to our Master
  • Thou shall follow they Master’s faithful Servants of SAGE in all their utterances and be daily thankful to the worthy Hancock, thy Master’s true Agent of Health.
  • Thou shall read the works of Ferguson and his Great Model for he is a True Prophet of our Master.

Thy Master decrees these laws for he loves thee and his wisdom and knowledge is greater than Man.

123723 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #591 of 1659 🔗

Good news, written to my MP on the same matter, we should all do the same, Boris is getting slammed in the MSM for this madness, he, Hancock, Cummings and the mad scientists need to go, dystopian society, they are a disgrace.

123737 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #592 of 1659 🔗

I really feel the government have overreached itself.Even Sky news are running critical stories now

123738 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to Dan Clarke, #593 of 1659 🔗

Attempting to do the same this morning. However my wordskills are clearly lacking, compared to some of the more articulate on here.
Does anyone have a relatively neutral letter template that I could use to get the point across to my MP?

123753 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Templeton, 1, #594 of 1659 🔗

TJN posted a lovely one a couple of days ago.

124053 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Templeton, #595 of 1659 🔗

I put a draft in a comment earlier. I’m open to suggestions for improvements.

123808 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Dan Clarke, #596 of 1659 🔗

Tried it a few weeks ago with copies to the 1922 committee.

nada, nothing, no reply.

123813 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #597 of 1659 🔗
123839 ▶▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Awkward Git, #598 of 1659 🔗

Perfect AG, thank you!

123849 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Templeton, #599 of 1659 🔗

Forgot the links to the graphs:


easy enough from the letter what graph went where.

123724 Cecil B, 8, #600 of 1659 🔗

Go on holiday to Cyprus. Don’t go on holiday to Cyprus

The Cyprus government require a negative PCR test in the UK in the72 hours prior to travelling. It also requires a written declaration from the traveler that they have been free of covid symptoms for 72 hour before travel

The UK government will not give you a test unless you have symptoms

Kafka should be reclassified from fiction to modern history

123730 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #601 of 1659 🔗

Dr Clare Craig’s article today is perhaps the best article published in Lockdown Sceptics. This goes to the essential fact. PCR tests were useful at the height of the pandemic. The risk of false positive tests now is enormous. Her insistence of more viral cultures to prove infectiousness must be the cornerstone of any surveillance system. Instead of spending billion of pounds in Moonshot’s lunacy let invest less money in viral cultures that could possibly stop unnecessary school closures etc and normalize quickly.

123793 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to swedenborg, 5, #602 of 1659 🔗

Is there any need to test for this virus at all? Surely normal is when we only do such tests when a Dr thinks it appropriate to help treat a sick person.

123732 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #603 of 1659 🔗

Today’s Postcard from LA was a thing of beauty.

123776 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #604 of 1659 🔗

Yes, well done that guy!

123794 ▶▶ davews, replying to Andrew, -9, #606 of 1659 🔗

Actually a 10pm curfew wouldn’t affect me in the slightest. In bed at 10.30 and the days of late evening drinking in pubs is long gone.

123806 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to davews, 12, #607 of 1659 🔗

Doesn’t affect you? Well that’s alright for the rest of us then isn’t it?

I don’t drink gin so ban it as it won’t affect me. OK?

124934 ▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to davews, #608 of 1659 🔗

Good for you, Mr. Smug.

123809 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Andrew, 8, #609 of 1659 🔗

I haven’t been out late in years, but I think that I will start off it becomes illegal

123832 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Andrew, 3, #610 of 1659 🔗

I’m just back from Greece. The talk there is that the midnight curfew is directly attributable to a slight uptick in cases as everyone is chucked out onto the street at the same time, calling cabs and fighting.

123744 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #611 of 1659 🔗

Folks, this is an important ‘intervention’, from Sir Mick Davis (senior businessman and former CEO of the Tory Party). I think he is signaling to donors. The 1922 are receiving many messages from individual members, and quite a few of us have cancelled memberships. Keep optimistic that things will get better, even if they get worse in the short-run.


123751 ▶▶ Jim Binks, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #612 of 1659 🔗

Hope you are right!

123746 steve_w, 1, #613 of 1659 🔗

I see the government still thinks the Ferguson model was the appropriate counterfactual rather than real world data from Sweden.

“In May, initial modelling by Johns Hopkins University showed that almost 6,000 additional children could die per day due to disruptions due to COVID-19.” – Unicef

123748 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 12, #614 of 1659 🔗

I had a great day yesterday ( until I saw read the latest last night ).
A nice, very relaxed lunch at a riverside pub. Complete normality, stroll up to the bar, order food, no corona bollocks, a bit of a laugh with everyone in the bar paying cash. Great.

As this were a family day out, we’d decided to ban the C word from conversation. However, in the pub garden where we sat, everyone around was talking about it, loudly and all very anti lockdown. Either I’ve discovered the secret Lockdown Sceptics hangout, or the tide has gone beyond turning?

123754 ▶▶ RickH, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #615 of 1659 🔗

I really hope that you’re right.

123772 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to RickH, 3, #616 of 1659 🔗

Well these may be pockets of dissent, but a few months ago, we were far fewer in number. While masks are everywhere, I believe the numbers of zealots are shrinking by the day.

123750 RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #617 of 1659 🔗

Despite all the evidence and growing numbers, ‘we’ Sceptics seem to just to be a flea bite on the elephant.”

I think that feeling expressed by a ‘Consultant’ is common to many of us.

Seeing the egregious distortion of data and plain lying become more and more apparent from April onwards, we thought that the bleedin’ obvious would dawn more widely – particularly given the known incompetence that was the joke that Johnson called a ‘cabinet’.

But such realization didn’t dawn – despite evidence of a growing underlying scepticism (or simple lack of conviction). The compliance to utterly bogus nonsense and magical thinking was overwhelming – and the incompetents must have been popping bottles of bubbly as they decided to push the absurdity further.

This despite the fact (as outlined by ‘Sue Denim’) that epidemiological modeling, upon which so much rested, was a pseudo-science detached from real world verification.

And no – contrary to the assertion of one correspondent above – this wasn’t a ‘left/right thing’. It was across the board, with defenders of civil rights and democratic procedures very much in a minority.

As I’ve touched on before – a car journey at the weekend did raise hopes that the ‘lack of conviction’ was indeed growing. But at the back of my mind was the possibility of what indeed happened : given the effective disappearance of the virus, the incompetents would still feel emboldened enough to ‘double down’ on a still susceptible population, confident in keeping the Big Con going by even more egregious distortions of reality.

And so it was.

Now – it’s not all bleak. I am confident that some of my efforts in simply giving acquaintances good information has had some effect – but mainly amongst those who weren’t entirely sold on the narrative, but who had excuses for it.

But the induction of Fear has been incredibly successful across the population, and has once again been whistled up.

So where does the flea go from here?

I’m not sure.

Continuing to put out good information whenever and wherever possible is obviously necessary.. But it’s not magic. Bluntly, a large number of people don’t know whether it’s shit, shave or breakfast time when it comes to information and logic.

Now that parliament is (at least in theory) back in session, it is clearly necessary to keep up pressure in that direction, with focused questioning rather than rambling rants. Putting MPs on the spot over basic democratic issues is key, and the Coronovirus legislation is a focus. As is asking pointed questions about the issue of vaccination and the government freebies for the pharmaceutical industry.

Demonstrations? Yes – IF you have the numbers (big ‘if’) and can detach the various ancillary hobby-horses that will be used as a distraction from the main issues.

… and, I guess, encouraging simple non-compliance and contempt for executive fiats.

But beyond that, I can see no magic tipping point.

123768 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to RickH, 3, #618 of 1659 🔗

One big sign in todays update for me. Liberty are now getting behind this ( maybe we can argue later why they stayed quiet for so long ). I suspect they’ve noticed that a lot of their regular supporters are anti lockdown.

124153 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #619 of 1659 🔗
123877 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 7, #620 of 1659 🔗

You can’t have Granny over for Christmas seems to be a massive tipping point.Its the last national festival we have left.The questions that were posed at the press conference got Johnson and Whitty to admit that the restrictions could still be in place.Raiding homes on Christmas Day to drag out our elderly relatives will not be a good idea

123914 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #621 of 1659 🔗

Not just Granny…. there must be many families like mine, where siblings live in different households and the combined total of immediate family members totals more than 6.
I live alone, so do my brother and mother, and my sister plus husband and 2 kids makes a total of 7… so one of us will have to be excluded..

It disturbs me greatly that they now seem to have the right to enter our private homes to see if there are more than 6 people gathered..

123756 p02099003, 5, #622 of 1659 🔗

Although it has been touted that SARS-COV-2 is a new virus, I suggest that in fact it is an old virus.
What is the basis for this hypothesis?

In pre-school age group the main immune response is from the innate pattern matching receptors.
In primary school aged children the adaptive system starts to supplement the innate system, with the latter still being dominant.
In secondary school children the adaptive system is maturing but the innate system is still very active.
As a person ages their immune system diminshes and hence become more susceptible to infection.

My hypothesis that this is an old virus is based on the ability of the innate system to control it through the primitive pattern matching receptors that have evolved over millenia with the adjunct of T-cell immunity which may be identified by swelling to the cervical lymph nodes (glands) and a raised temperature but without serious complications.
This is not true for the influenza producing corona virus which can affect all age groups indiscriminantly.

Hence very young children will exhibit no symptoms and are not infectious. As the age range increases then symptoms may appear or they may not. It is only in the older populations that the risk of a seriously adverse reaction occurs.

As Daniel M. Davis in his book “The Beautiful Cure: the new science of Human Health” (pp141-142), states “background inflammation might persist in elderly people” ..”the effect is that the (immune) system is less able to discriminate between germs and the body’s own cells and tissues, and is particularly weak at detecting germs it has never encountered before.”
“it is easier for an immune reaction to be triggered in elderly people, but, by the same token, the system is less stringent in responding appropriately”
“Effects arise not just from the ageing of immune cells but from the ageing of the system as a whole – a consequence of the system having spent decades battling germs”.
The upshot of this is that the current lockdown should be lifted and people allowed to mix.

123758 Paul Chandler, 3, #623 of 1659 🔗

I welcome your continuing reporting of the ‘false positives’ problem, but perhaps we miss a trick – when paraphrasing reports etc, we can make clear to everyone just how much amplification is done in these tests. 30 cycles will multiply the sample amount by over 1,074 million – and 40 cycles (which is reached in many tests) is over 1 million million times – which gives some context with which to interpret the presence of tiny amounts of contaminants and RNA fragments.
It may also be worth stressing that the PCR tests ‘identify’ the virus by detecting only one or two fragments of 20 to 30 ‘bases’ length; the whole strand consists of almost 30,000 such ‘bases’.

123759 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #624 of 1659 🔗

 Spain: Female lifeguard arrested for surfing after testing positive for Coronavirus


123771 ▶▶ Biker, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 6, #625 of 1659 🔗

Quite right we don’t want the fishes getting the lab flu

123908 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #626 of 1659 🔗

Seen the other Spanish incident, of a boy having his neck knelt on, for not wearing a mask? In the DM today…

123761 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #627 of 1659 🔗

I put his on http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/ and he published it.


This year’s exam results have no value as they are based on guesswork.

Money has no value anymore it the Daily Mail headline is corecct:

Boris’s mass COVID testing moonshot ‘to cost £100BILLION’: PM’s plan to get life back to normal with 10 MILLION tests a day is forecast to cost almost as much as entire NHS budget – and experts warn it may not even be possible

Freedom has no value
What’s the point of having members of Parliament if they don’t protect their constituents form an overbearing Government.

By now the Government must know that lockdowns don’t work.

Peru went into lockdown 16th March – 911 deaths per million (the highest death rate in the world after San Marino)

Brazil – no lockdown – 602 deaths per million

Only 8 reported Covid death in the UK the day Boris Johnson decides to become Oliver Cromwell and threatens to ban Christmas.

No doubt we should call his Covid Marshal social distancing clowns Oliver’s Army, but that sounds too friendly’

123781 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #628 of 1659 🔗

If we had a 100 billion spare I’d prefer to spend it on an actual moonshot

123803 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #629 of 1659 🔗

And look what happened to Cromwell’s reign in the end.

Might have taken a while but the people eventually woke up.

124286 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #630 of 1659 🔗

Do you think Charles I was better? Or Charles II, so corrupt that nobody would lend him a halfpenny, so he sold himself to the King of France for a pension?
At least Cromwell had principles.

124756 ▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to annie, #631 of 1659 🔗

Cromwell – principles: Yep, especially with regard to Irish catholics.

123906 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #632 of 1659 🔗

Will be interesting to see what replies you get to that post, from others who read his diary..

123762 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #633 of 1659 🔗

Covid Marshals = Boris Black Shirts

123778 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 11, #634 of 1659 🔗

Nick Triggle is the best BBC journalist out of a bad bunch


“Ministers will then face the choice of more restrictions to try to curb the virus in the knowledge these will damage people’s health in other ways as well as harming education and the economy.

Or let the virus spread, while focusing efforts on protecting the vulnerable – that means protecting care homes and perhaps reintroducing shielding.

Lockdown bought us time, but simply deferred the problem.”

123784 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 4, #635 of 1659 🔗

let the virus spread, while focusing efforts on protecting the vulnerable – that means protecting care homes and perhaps reintroducing shielding.”

should have been the plan in March. Of course has to be tempered by whether the vulnerable actually want to be shut away or are prepared to take the risk

123798 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 4, #636 of 1659 🔗

Yes. We Old Farts are quite capable of doing our own risk assessment – a task which Mr Toad’s Flying Circus is clearly incapable of on my behalf.

I repeat, for the benefit of that utter shower “Now – just f. off”

123792 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 2, #637 of 1659 🔗

Has Deborah Cohen done any recent reports? Or has she been sidelined after spilling some truth?

Genuine question, since I don’t watch BBC News except by accident.

On the above quotes – it’s still BBC bollocks :

  1. Lockdown didn’t buy time. The virus just did what viruses do, and went away.
  2. ‘Protect the vulnerable’? Like we do every ‘flu season – i.e with normal sensible behaviour? Well – actually the ‘vulnerable’ do that themselves; they don’t need to be patronised . Care homes will always require special ‘care’. Now f. off and stop trying to create a crisis.
123802 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 2, #638 of 1659 🔗

dont know. I just check the govt live feed to see what bollox its spouting. Nick Triggle has been reasonable from the beginning not that I agree with him necessarily but I expect he is walking a fine line if he wants to keep a job. It also allows the BBC to reference his articles when its shown the emperor has not clothes

1 – agreed – as a comparison with our and swedens curve showed. It did delay it in S America, S Africa and India to catastrophic results
2 – a conversation is needed about what a care home is. Is it somewhere we send vulnerable relatives to be isolated in a germ free environment in order to eek out their miserable life as long as possible? Should the residents get a say?

123816 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 1, #639 of 1659 🔗

Should the residents get a say?”

Of course – although in some cases that will essentially be the family.

The underlying point I was making is that many years have a season of heightened infection. This last was nothing unusual – the ‘crisis’ is entirely a political artifact.

And every year care homes and the ‘vulnerable’ have to deal with such a possibility, remembering that even vaccines provide no magic solution.

123811 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to steve_w, 1, #640 of 1659 🔗

There is no ‘problem’. These journalists institutionalise mis-truths.

123787 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 1, #641 of 1659 🔗
124294 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to kh1485, #642 of 1659 🔗

Reading the comments gives me some hope.

123788 Will, replying to Will, 9, #643 of 1659 🔗

Got a spring in my step this morning as I think the silent majority are feeling emboldened enough to, finally, acknowledge that the emperor isn’t wearing a stitch….

How long before Gove breaks rank, possibly with Raab and the honourable member for the 18th century?

123796 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Will, 11, #644 of 1659 🔗

This is Gove’s chance. Will he take it i don’t know but if i were him i’d get up in Parliament and go through all the lies of this virus and declare that we should be opening up the country again with an emphasis on people who are weak and ill to take care but the rest of must get moving.

123805 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Biker, #645 of 1659 🔗

Oh Jeez! Frying pan to fire with that creepy Chuky look-alike doll.

123822 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 6, #646 of 1659 🔗

I wonder when you’ll realise that socialism doesn’t work bro. When will people like you get their little grasping fingers out my pocket? We don’t want your socialism. We want the ability to stand or fall on our own efforts and if you can’t well tough fucking titty because my money and my rights come before yours. That way we can all be free. I know you don’t get it and can only surmise you can’t live off your own efforts and require a massive state to take whats mine and give it to you. Can you grasp it yet. Wait, silly question, off course you can’t.

124133 ▶▶▶▶▶ kate, replying to Biker, 3, #647 of 1659 🔗

What happens to the disabled under this philosophy? Two people (stupidly, maybe but acting with good intentions have just been disabled by the vaccine trial – multiple sclerosis and transverse myelitis. They were previously healthy and able to look after themselves but not any longer.These neurological disorders have an insidious effect on energy and mental functioning.
Are you going to kick them into the gutter?

123810 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Biker, 4, #648 of 1659 🔗

Yes, where are the libertarians? I could happily forgive Brexit if they stop this particular Madness (sorry Brexiteers). I think this is much more important.

123856 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #649 of 1659 🔗

I voted Brexit to free ourselves from the E.U. I no longer care, this is so much more important

123918 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Biker, 2, #650 of 1659 🔗

Gove missed his chance months ago. But I guess if he and a few others do finally do the right thing after collaborating for all this time, we ‘ll have to take what we can get for the moment. But I won’t forget or forgive.

On Gove personally, though, I tend to agree with Rick H. I shudder to think of the wars he will manipulate us into if he gets into the top office. He’s a certifiable neocon moonbarker on foreign policy.

123852 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Will, 6, #651 of 1659 🔗

I agree,this seems to be the turning point.There seems to be a lot of anger in the air,finally,and also there is a lot of humour directed at the government which is good too.
A note on Johnson,he looks insane,

123800 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to PoshPanic, 6, #653 of 1659 🔗

Twas ever thus. They don’t think through the real-world consequences of their illiterate policy-making.

123892 ▶▶ steph, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #654 of 1659 🔗

Totally predictable. I’m sure lots of young women leave false details to protect themselves.

123797 maggie may, replying to maggie may, 2, #655 of 1659 🔗

Just saw this on the BBC website – unbelievable they don’t mention the incidence of false positives and people who have had it and recovered and/or not infectious yet are registering positive.
How reliable are the tests?
When it comes to the most common type of diagnostic test, scientists at the University of Bristol believe 20% of positive cases could falsely appear as negative, wrongly telling someone they are not infected.
This can be because the swab sample wasn’t good enough, there were problems in the lab, or the stage of infection the patient was at when tested.

124758 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to maggie may, #656 of 1659 🔗

Why am I not surprised?

123801 Awkward Git, #657 of 1659 🔗

All I can say reading this website is that local councils and this lot giving them advice are either failing miserably as incompetents, ignoring their local population and there realities of life or just enjoying the power.


123807 leggy, 6, #658 of 1659 🔗

I’d like to pose a question. We all know that PHE and the NHS threw thousands of our most vulnerable old persons under a bus with the way they handled care home transfers. Is anyone here aware that the NHS also transferred untested and symptomatic patients from Generals into Community Hospitals? I’ve not seen a single mention of it, but a friend who works for a large Trust and is responsible for bed management told me exactly that – and he’s a hardcore lockdown zealot too. I guess the truth will never out about that as the NHS will cover it up as an internal issue? They couldn’t hide the care home data, what with care homes being privately run.

123812 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #659 of 1659 🔗

Apologies if already posted but the Liberty petition is gaining traction


123817 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #660 of 1659 🔗


123863 ▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Andrew Fish, #661 of 1659 🔗


123827 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Tom Blackburn, #662 of 1659 🔗


123900 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tom Blackburn, #663 of 1659 🔗

Signed! But needs a lot more than 28,500 signatures though..

123902 ▶▶ Chrissy, replying to Tom Blackburn, #664 of 1659 🔗

UK Government and Parliament Petition Repeal the Coronavirus Act 2020 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/313310

123937 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Tom Blackburn, #665 of 1659 🔗


123984 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tom Blackburn, #666 of 1659 🔗


123814 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #667 of 1659 🔗

I appreciate Sue Denim’s comments, but have to disagree with this one

at some point epidemiologists started to define success for their predictions as “matches what other epidemiologists predict” instead of “matches reality”.

That’s in response to this comment by Prof. Ferguson

For those who believe that discovering a fatal flaw in this code might bring the the scientific support for lockdown tumbling down, I’m sorry break it to you to that other (notably LSHTM) academic groups informing SAGE in March used completely different models to reach nearly identical conclusions to our Report 9 in March.

In other words, Ferguson is defending his model against the claims made by others that the software is fatally flawed and hence incapable of producing a reliable output.

He finishes by saying, “The key conclusion… hinged only on estimates of R0/doubling time, hospitalisation rates and IFR (mortality risk). Given those estimates, any epidemic model would give basically the same conclusions we reached.”

There’s a confusion here, and it’s hard to resolve. There were two aspects to Report 9. One, which of course attracted media attention, was the estimate for the results of the “do-nothing” or “unmitigated” scenario. Ferguson is almost, but not quite, correct, to say that this depends only on the parameters he lists, but there is one more parameter and one, or maybe two, more assumptions. The missing parameter is initial immunity. As Denim says, initial assumptions were that this would be low, as the virus was believed to be novel. That was conservative, but the only reasonable one at the time.

his conclusions could have been worked out on the back of a napkin, as “any” model would give the same conclusions given just three variables.

Not quite, but nearly, Herd immunity levels and asymptotic case numbers do indeed depend only on R0 and can be worked out on the back of a napkin, indeed I’ve done so myself. I’ve also written a simple SIR model that shows the effects of varying the parameters. You need quite a big napkin to do such things as estimate the peak infection rate, which is a rather important policy input.

So, using a simple model for “unmitigated” spread, we do now have some experiences (I prefer not to call them “experiments”): Manaus and Guayaquil. There the herd immunity levels were seen to be in the 20-30% range, not the 80% or so predicted by the simple model on the assumption of low initial immunity. The model output is perfectly consistent with observation on the assumption of 50% initial immunity, for example.

There is a further, non-analytic assumption, which is that the spread of this disease does follow the general single-population-level model being used. The SIR and its descendant models are consistent with observations over the last hundred years or so since they were first developed, so it’s not quite as bizarre to use them as Denim implies. Indeed, as Denim says, “ their theories/models are general”

But that’s the point of science, isn’t it? To bring as wide a variety of special phenomena as you can into one general understanding.

123830 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #668 of 1659 🔗

After he was found breaking lockdown rules this slime should have disappeared under whatever rock he was living under.

123855 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #669 of 1659 🔗

… which has nothing to do with the validity of the mathematical model, does it?

123879 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #670 of 1659 🔗

It shows he didn’t believe a word or code he had written

123894 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #671 of 1659 🔗

And don’t forget Cressida Dick standing with her undistanced Met police on Westminster Bridge clapping for the NHS. It’s almost as if those in power know something that is not being shared with the rest of us.

123991 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #672 of 1659 🔗

Well, that’s one interpretation. Others are possible, but again, not really relevant.

123883 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #673 of 1659 🔗

The problem with much epidemiology as I see it is that the modeling has lost touch with reality, and confuses models (which do have their proper place) with that reality.

A simpler example is the use of the term ‘excess deaths’ which I have noticed being used as a guideline ‘fact’, when it is a variable term which is, actually simply the error component of a particular model projection. As such, that baseline varies according to the method employed in its calculation – but is treated as some fixed measure of ‘natural’ mortality.

123987 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, 1, #674 of 1659 🔗

the error component of a particular model projection

That really only makes sense if you’re determined to use “model” to mean any sort of calculation. The “model” here is that the death rate in any given month is pretty likely to be pretty much the same as it was in the corresponding months over the past few years. In 2020 it was different by an amount well beyond any reasonable “error component”.

124082 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #675 of 1659 🔗

Would that have had anything to do with this, do you think?


Government action based on model predicted outcomes?

124471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, #676 of 1659 🔗

Perhaps, But that’s assuming that there were excess deaths, which the previous comment seemed to deny.

123993 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #677 of 1659 🔗

Isn’t it interesting that yourself and Mayo have both admitted that the product of the model was erroneous but that doesn’t mean the model itself is wrong. Could it be that it has dawned on supporters of modelling, as a driver of policy, are getting their excuses in early lest the general public start to question some other models that are driving other public policy areas. The mantra is to be “yes, the predictions were wildly exaggerated, but that is because we fed false information into the model, not because the model itself was unreliable.” The goalposts are not just shifting, they are turning into rugby posts.

124023 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Will, 1, #678 of 1659 🔗

it has dawned on supporters of modelling as a driver of policy are getting their excuses in early

Or could it be that people who know about modelling are trying to explain clearly how modelling works and what it is and isn’t good for, to audiences who are determined not to hear them?

124034 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #679 of 1659 🔗

Don’t make me laugh Richard. All models are wrong, but some are useful is the mantra. I’ve modelled many things in my time, including thrust profiles of spacecraft engines. None of these are ever used to drive final verification. That is just lunacy.

124377 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, 1, #680 of 1659 🔗

This seems like to good moment to challenge you, as an experienced modeller, keen to correct the mistakes of others, to say what you would have said at the SAGE meeting of, say, 13 March. The chairman turns to you and says “What happens if we do nothing?” How would you proceed?

124063 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Richard Pinch, #681 of 1659 🔗

I hear you loud and clear, it wasn’t the model that was at fault it was the data that was put into it. It is actually irrelevant whether or not the model was at fault because the product is cat litter. That the product precipitated the catastrophic decision to impose a, completely pointless, lockdown that will kill more people than covid is the disgrace. That Ferguson has the neck on him to persist in promoting his garbage when it is as clear as day that he wildly exaggerated the threat from this disease, is actually verging on the psychopathic.

124382 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Will, 1, #682 of 1659 🔗

It is actually irrelevant whether or not the model was at fault

Then I don’t quite understand why you’re so keen to establish that it was.

123840 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 8, #683 of 1659 🔗

Sorry – but a little bit of quite simple analysis in April was sufficient to show that the conclusions of the model were wildly at variance with what was happening, and what was most likely to happen.

If it was obvious to some of us that this *wasn’t* an unprecedented infection-driven event quite early on, why was Ferguson (amongst others) still piddling around with a failed model instead of comparing output to the real world, whilst Wiittkowski got censored for making pretty accurate general predictions?

123854 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, 3, #684 of 1659 🔗

Well, of course they were. The model for a do-nothing scenario was never going to predict the results of a do-an-awful-lot policy, was it?

123884 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #685 of 1659 🔗

I can’t believe there are still people who give this charlatan the time of day.The rate of infection had already peaked before lockdown due to the social distancing measures that had already been taken.Whitty admitted this.Remember they modelled a flu epidemic and didn’t take into account any pre immunity in the population.Please educate yourself before posting pithy put downs

123978 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #686 of 1659 🔗

didn’t take into account any pre immunity in the population

I address this below. It’s a parameter of the model.

Please educate yourself before posting pithy put downs

Please refrain from making personal remarks if you wish to continue this discussion.

124056 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #687 of 1659 🔗

Im up for that,a computer model is only as good as the information you put in.Fact.Ferguson dusted off a 13 year old model for flu.it wasn’t peer reviewed and when it finally was reviewed it gave a different outcome every time.
If you feel this is a strong enough basis in which to destroy the economic and political life of this country then there is no helping you.This is not March and we have many opportunities to study this novel disease.The model has been found wanting and the fact that the author didn’t even believe in it is very relevant.
The fact is the virus has behaved the way viruses always do despite Government actions,all over the world.

124365 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #688 of 1659 🔗

The “do-nothing” estimate was, as Sue Denim pointed out, not dependent on any one model. Even my own simple SIR model gave a similar result. The results were that “do nothing” would have led to catastrophic results. In the handful of cases where something similar did actually happen, the result was indeed catastrophic. We may reasonably say, then, that the result of the model was,qualitatively, correcy, and that the corresponding decision to do something rather than nothing was, so far as that goes, the right one. What that something should have been is not something I have expressed an opinion on. We can say that those real-world figures show that the initial parameter of little pre-existing immunity may have been pessimistic.

124872 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, #689 of 1659 🔗

Sage recommended measures which were implemented and were content to see the results..They never advocated lockdown,which was a political decision.Ferguson and his dodgy model were invited in to give it a veneer of scientific cover.A man with his track record should not have been let anywhere near the levers of power.
On the subject of doing nothing causing catastrophic results then what has the lockdown resulted in.
Mass deaths in care homes,Cancer treatments suspended which will lead to countless deaths in the near future,I could go on

124083 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #690 of 1659 🔗

Just to be clear, are you referring to Sweden? The Sweden that didn’t close it’s schools, didn’t close it’s cafes or bars, didn’t limit gatherings below 50 in number, didn’t impose face masks and has fewer excess deaths than Finland and almost the same as Denmark. Oh yes, and where the virus has basically disappeared.

124354 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Will, #691 of 1659 🔗

I’m not referring to Sweden at all.

124451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Richard Pinch, #692 of 1659 🔗

‘In the handful of cases where something similar did actually happen, the result was indeed catastrophic’. Which cases?

124491 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Bruno, #693 of 1659 🔗

Manaus, Brazil and Guayaquil, Ecuador.

123861 ▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to RickH, 3, #694 of 1659 🔗

Speaking of Prof Wittkowski, you might like his comments in this article.


123871 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Caramel, 2, #695 of 1659 🔗

Yes – he was generally right all along in terms of policy.

123841 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #696 of 1659 🔗

Makes no difference. They were wrong. And the other studies (whatever they were) were equally wrong.
And we know they were wrong because Sweden had no lockdown and the bodies didn’t pile up in the streets.

123850 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, #697 of 1659 🔗

“No lockdown” is not the same as “do nothing”.

123857 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #698 of 1659 🔗

So what? Imperial said a lockdown was vital, but it wasn’t.

123867 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to JohnMac, #699 of 1659 🔗

Then argue with them about it, not me. I’m referring throughout to Sue Denim’s comments about the simple modelling of the “do-nothing” scenario. I’m not saying anything here about the “mitigation” versus “suppression” choice.

123965 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Richard Pinch, #700 of 1659 🔗

Moving the goalposts is moving the goalposts though.

124037 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Will, #701 of 1659 🔗

So it is. The question is, who is trying to move them, where, and why. Three questions, actually.

123968 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to JohnMac, #702 of 1659 🔗

And the rest of Europe is moving to emulate them. Unfortunately not the idiot UK government because they are still following the erroneous product of Ferguson’s model.

123882 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #703 of 1659 🔗

As Denim says, initial assumptions were that this would be low, as the virus was believed to be novel. That was conservative, but the only reasonable one at the time .”

Was it, though?

Since this appears to be one of the areas where the modelling was based on what has probably proved to have been a drastically false assumption, it’s important to assess just how justifiable that assumption was.

Granted, it’s a legitimate “worst case” assumption, but was it really reasonable to assume it with any confidence for a new coronavirus, given as I understand it we assume cross-immunities amongst other colds and flus?

123970 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark, #704 of 1659 🔗

was it really reasonable to assume it

I think it was the right assumption at the time. Denim seems to think it was absurd. As |I say, modelling exposes such things.

123997 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Richard Pinch, #705 of 1659 🔗

My impression is that there was a strong element of groupthink in that assessment at the time.

124010 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mark, #706 of 1659 🔗

Maybe, I’m not a virologist. As has been pointed out, we now have some real-world data to calibrate it.

123901 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #707 of 1659 🔗

No the point of science is to state your assumptions and know when to keep out of real world policy when using models.

If you are any type of scientist the uncertainty levels alone preclude using a model to drive real world policy. There are procedures for this, mostly in the engineering and audit field.

123904 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to mhcp, 2, #708 of 1659 🔗

And secondly I already answered your Manaus assertion for unmitigated spread. The numbers do not tally with reality so there are other factors going on, most notably how Covid is attributed. Something that comes from, oh yes, the Scientific Method.

i.e. Make sure your measurement precision is sufficiently less than the variation you are trying to measure

123966 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, #709 of 1659 🔗

the point of science is to state your assumptions and know when to keep out of real world policy when using models

No, the point of science is to give us understanding of how the world works. We can use that understanding to help us make the world work the way we want it to,

124026 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #710 of 1659 🔗

As a scientist, Richard, yes it does give us an understanding of how the world works but only predicated on our assumptions. As a scientist you have an ethical duty to stay within the limits of your assumptions, because you are not an advocate.

124458 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to mhcp, 1, #711 of 1659 🔗

Our understanding is certainly predicated on our assumptions. One of the values of a well-conducted modelling exercise is that it exposes assumptions and allows their effect on outcomes to be assessed. The degree of uncertainty in the inputs to a model should be reflected in a corresponding degree of uncertainty of the outputs. If those outputs are to be used to answer questions reflecting on policy, or other real-world actions, then the degree of uncertainty needs to be clearly and frankly stated.

124178 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to mhcp, #712 of 1659 🔗

I’ve said before that I think modelling is far more akin to engineering than science.

If science is a process to understand the natural world, engineering is the processing of using scientifically arrived knowledge to produce something unnatural (i.e. by humans). A model is not the natural world.

123949 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #713 of 1659 🔗

The data used by Imperial College was junk data.

From Jan 15 to March 3, 2020, seven versions of the case definition for COVID-19 were issued by the National Health Commission in China.’


Their assumptions were junk and some of their key players had form in that regard:

In 2009, Ferguson and his Imperial team predicted that swine flu had a case fatality rate 0.3 per cent to 1.5 per cent. His most likely estimate was that the mortality rate was 0.4 per cent. A government estimate, based on Ferguson’s advice, said a ‘reasonable worst-case scenario’ was that the disease would lead to 65,000 UK deaths.

In the end swine flu killed 457 people in the UK and had a death rate of just 0.026 per cent in those infected.’


An excellent assessment, from within China, by a leading coronavirus expert, of events in China had been available from 06 February.

People are saying a 2.2 to 2.4% fatality rate total. However recent information is very worthy – if you look at the cases outside of China the mortality rate is <1%. [Only 2 fatalities outside of mainland China]. 2 potential reasons 1) either china’s healthcare isn’t as good – that’s probably not the case 2) What is probably right is that just as with SARS there’s probably much stricter guidelines in mainland China for a case to be considered positive. So the 20,000 cases in China is probably only the severe cases; the folks that actually went to the hospital and got tested. The Chinese healthcare system is very overwhelmed with all the tests going through. So my thinking is this is actually not as severe a disease as is being suggested. The fatality rate is probably only 0.8%-1%. There’s a vast underreporting of cases in China. Compared to Sars and Mers we are talking about a coronavirus that has a mortality rate of 8 to 10 times less deadly to Sars to Mers. So a correct comparison is not Sars or Mers but a severe cold. Basically this is a severe form of the cold.’

Professor John Nicholls, University of Hong Kong 06 February 2020

In fact the Imperial College model simply provided useful cover for the British Government to cave in to pressure from overseas.

And it continues so to do in an attempt thereby to achieve a decent Brexit deal to save it from ultimate electoral immolation.

That is the dirty little secret and it is doomed to failure.

The only achievement of this government will be to have burnished the legends of the Major and May governments by comparison with itself.

123963 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #714 of 1659 🔗

A government estimate, based on Ferguson’s advice, said a ‘reasonable worst-case scenario’ was that the disease would lead to 65,000 UK deaths.

In the end swine flu killed 457 people in the UK and had a death rate of just 0.026 per cent in those infected.

A Reasonable Worst Case scenario is not a prediction, it is a planning tool. The RWC for your house might be that it burns down killing two of your guests. You use that as a planning tool to decide such things as how much insurance to take out. It’s not a prediction of what is actually going to happen in the next twelve months.

123974 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #715 of 1659 🔗

A planning tool using rubbish data and dumb assumptions produces silly predictions

Sequential silly predictions define someone as either a complete numpty or stark raving bonkers.

Take your pick.

124006 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #716 of 1659 🔗

not a prediction

124113 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard Pinch, #717 of 1659 🔗

A scenario is not a planning tool. It is one of a number of possible outcomes created (predicted) by modelling using a variety of different assumptions.

The assumptions made by Imperial College were unrealistic, potentially self serving.

They had form in this regard:

‘During the 2001 epidemic of FMD in the United Kingdom (UK), this approach was supplemented by a culling policy driven by unvalidated predictive models. The epidemic and its control resulted in the death of approximately ten million animals, public disgust with the magnitude of the slaughter, and political resolve to adopt alternative options, notably including vaccination, to control any future epidemics. The UK experience provides a salutary warning of how models can be abused in the interests of scientific opportunism.’

‘The 2001 predictive models were constructed in an environment of poor-quality data (e.g. they used out-ofdate census data for stock levels), and poor epidemiological knowledge (e.g. the transmission characteristics of the virus strain, and the distribution of the initially infected farms, were unknown). Therefore, their use as predictive tools was inappropriate.’

These early calculations provided the support for the announcement on 21 March by one of the Imperial College team that the epidemic was not under control (4). Furthermore, the model of Ferguson et al. (31) did not include separate species, and so modelled all farms with the same ‘homogenised’ species, even though virus output varies substantially between species.’


These early calculations provided the support for the announcement on 21 March by one of the Imperial College team that the epidemic was not under control’ Oh! That sounds a bit like a prediction!

But a wrong one, again:

For this reason, predictive disease models , which depend on statistical probabilities of transmission, have not met with much success in predicting the spread of FMD from herd to herd, and still less the impact of control measures.’

Deja vu all over again, but this time thousands of human lives tragically cut short as a consequence.

124348 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #718 of 1659 🔗

You will have noticed, I’m sure, that I was discussing the Swine Flu outbreak of 2009, not the Foot and Mouth outbreak of 2001 (which I think was very badly handled indeed). The Swine Flu estimate was a RWC, and a RWC is not a prediction.

123981 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard Pinch, #719 of 1659 🔗

Why did we persist with the blanket assumptions based on the novelty of the virus when it became known that it maps the seasonal evolution of a severe flu?

His model may have had justification in a broad light back in Feb. But science should evolve yet there he is, defending it. People like that seem to want to own the cautious approach that led to lockdown, and saved the NHS, but now in the cold light of day they should own the consequences of their miscalculation too.

124043 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #720 of 1659 🔗

Why did we persist with the blanket assumptions based on the novelty of the virus when it became known that it maps the seasonal evolution of a severe flu?

I’m not sure what you mean by that. The point about epidemic models is that they model the behaviour of a wide variety of infections.

127506 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Richard Pinch, #721 of 1659 🔗

I’m not sure you’ll see this but I’ll reply anyway.

There are two distinct issues here. The first is the failed do-nothing prediction. Ferguson’s defence is that the prediction of disaster can be arrived at with very simple assumptions, and thus many other epidemiologists concluded the same thing. This is no defence. It just means they were all wrong for the same reasons. We know what the do-nothing outcome looks like in reality and it looks like nothing: the virus is quite simply not deadly enough to yield any serious outcome. If that weren’t true we’d have been seeing people flee Sweden over the summer to escape the Swedish policies and of course, we did not. The Swedes are reportedly happy about what happened there.

The second is the code issues. These matter because ICL’s (implicit) claim is that COVID-Sim is a useful program. If literally “any” model could yield the basic conclusion, then the value of Ferguson’s work must come from the precision of the numbers for other scenarios. This is clearly impossible because the implementation is so incompetent that the predictions for other scenarios vary wildly between execution runs depending on irrelevant variables, like CPU architecture. As previously demonstrated on this site (please read the archives if you didn’t see the prior analyses), these meaningless variations were e.g. larger than the UK field hospital programme. Thus the model cannot predict anything useful about interventions, levels of hospital demand or anything else it’s trying to generate as output. To the extent it has any use, it’s only able to generate big numbers for the do-nothing scenario, which as Ferguson admits, literally anyone can do.

That’s why his assertion is surprising. What exactly is the justification for his department’s existence? If anyone can incorrectly predict disaster using three variables then the much higher number of parameters in his model can only be justified if the predictions are correspondingly precise and accurate, which is impossible given how buggy it was. Thus there is no justification for his department’s existence, and he should be defunded.

Finally, you have made at least two serious errors in your argument above.

As Denim says, initial assumptions were that this would be low, as the virus was believed to be novel. That was conservative, but the only reasonable one at the time.

Not only was this assumption entirely wrong, but t here was nothing reasonable or conservative about it. It was the most extreme assumption possible given that viruses develop through mutation. An entirely novel virus would share no RNA in common with other viruses, by definition. It was obvious from the start that SARS-CoV-2 isn’t novel, that’s why it even has the number 2 in its name.

Coronaviruses have been around a long time and are well studied, meanwhile, there have been no large outbreaks of deadly new viruses since HIV (and even for that, there are people – like the inventor of the PCR test that now so dominates our lives – who believed HIV/AIDS are not really linked). The only reason to expect a global health apocalypse is the general priming that exists in our society for this outcome via e.g. zombie movies, the predictions of Bill Gates, etc.

“Novelty” is an academic obsession reflective of the bad incentives that exist in their world. Discovering something novel leads to fame and perhaps fortune, discovering a minor variant of a not very interesting virus leads to nothing. The real world is now paying dearly for allowing academia such a free rein to pursue “novelty”.

The SIR and its descendant models are consistent with observations over the last hundred years

Can you please cite a single case where epidemiological models have successfully and closely predicted the course of an outbreak? I have not yet heard of one. Even just a few years ago, epidemiologists were predicting multiple waves and seasonal re-emergence of Zika, which never happened.

If these models were “consistent with observations over the last 100 years” then models would have predictive power. It is proven beyond doubt that they have none whatsoever. It’s very odd that you’re insisting they do. That’s why it’s bizarre to use them – they do not work, therefore they shouldn’t be used to drive policy.

Finally, you try to imply that I’ve contradicted myself. The generality of epidemiology models is irrelevant to the accuracy of their outputs, so there’s no contradiction. It may be that a fully general disease simulation is possible to construct, but epidemiologists don’t seem to currently believe it as COVID models are all fresh programs written from scratch, even though the underlying assumptions they implement are mostly general.

129302 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mike, #722 of 1659 🔗

Thanks for taking the time to engage.

The first is the failed do-nothing prediction. Ferguson’s defence is that the prediction of disaster can be arrived at with very simple assumptions, and thus many other epidemiologists concluded the same thing. This is no defence. It just means they were all wrong for the same reasons. We know what the do-nothing outcome looks like in reality and it looks like nothing: the virus is quite simply not deadly enough to yield any serious outcome.

I dispute this. As I have said before, the precise numerical value is not the point. A decision had to be taken g iven limited and imperfect data, and estimates from basic back-of-an-envelope upwards made on those simple assumptions. That was the only game in town at that time, and its purpose was not to produce precise numerical predictions, but to answer the question “What happens if we do nothing” (always the first option, you’ll be pleased to hear). The answer to that is not a precise number but a word: catastrophe (plus collapse of the health service). We know what the do-nothing outcome looked like in Manaus and Guayaquil, and that is: catastrophe (plus collapse of the health service).

The second is the code issues.

I haven’t seen the code or the underlying model, and have said so. I can only go by what is reported to have been said, by Ferguson and others.

Not only was this assumption entirely wrong, but there was nothing reasonable or conservative about it. It was the most extreme assumption possible given that viruses develop through mutation. An entirely novel virus would share no RNA in common with other viruses, by definition.

You’re quite correct in that the virus was not “entirely” novel in the literal sense. Indeed, if had literally no RNA in common with other viruses, it would probably not have have been capable of infecting humans at all. I meant that it is not a simple variant of an existing virus to which people have been exposed, in the way in which most flu viruses are. It is genetically related to the SARS virus of 2003, hence the -2. However, at the time, the best assessment was that it had just jumped species from animals. Whether the assumption was reasonable is a matter of opinion. if SAGE collectively came to the conclusion that low pre-existing immunity was a reasonable assumption, that’s good enough for me — I’m a mathematician, not a virologist.

Finally, you try to imply that I’ve contradicted myself.

I don’t think so. I point out that generality is often a good thing in modelling, while you appear to think differently. That’s a disagreement, and you’re entitled to your opinion.

Can you please cite a single case where epidemiological models have successfully and closely predicted the course of an outbreak?

See DOI 10.1111/1469-0691.12308 for some comments about this, especially in the context of policy making.

123818 swedenborg, 5, #723 of 1659 🔗

http://bioinvasions.org/wp-content/uploads/Cohen-Kessel-medRxiv-Supplemental-Material.pdf https://twitter.com/LenCabrera/status/1303825827591790595 “Why did the CDC change guidance on who to test? Read the Cohen-Kessel paper on false positive rate (FPR). They reviewed real-world data on RT-PCR tests for RNA viruses since 2004 & estimated 2.3% FPR

123819 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 13, #724 of 1659 🔗

Swift reply from my MP:

Thank you for contacting me about the Government’s coronavirus powers.

I agree with the many of the sentiments shared by my colleague Mr Walker, it is really important to push for the country to get back to normal.
I am also surprised and disappointed by the recent changes to social gathering numbers. I would have preferred to delay such a decision until such a time when the impact of rising case numbers could be assessed.

As a member of the Government in my role as PPS to the Secretary of State for Wales I cannot vote against renewing the Government’s powers in relation to the Coronavirus Act 2020 and remain within the Government. I believe that I can better push for a return to normal from within Government than from outside it. I understand that some people, perhaps yourself included may disagree with this decision but I hope that you can understand where I am coming from. From within Government I will continue to have greater access to Ministers and will hopefully be able to push for further relaxing of lockdown rules over the coming autumn months.

Thank you for taking the time to contact me about this important matter.

Yours sincerely

Sarah Atherton MP
Member of Parliament for Wrexham

123823 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Mr Dee, 21, #725 of 1659 🔗

“I prefer having a minor government job than actually standing for any sort of principle.”

123826 ▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Ed Phillips, 3, #726 of 1659 🔗

And an equally fair point.

123831 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Quernus, 2, #727 of 1659 🔗

If this statement of hers is true:

“I believe that I can better push for a return to normal from within Government than from outside it.”

Do you all think she is someone we can work with? Is it worth me sending her info (eg from the Swiss Doctor site) – maybe a fact each morning so as not to overwhelm her? Tactics anyone?

123834 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #728 of 1659 🔗

To give context, she is a new MP who has taken Wrexham from the Tories after something like 2,678 years of Labour dominance.

123837 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, #729 of 1659 🔗

Oops – for the Tories!!

123869 ▶▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #730 of 1659 🔗

I think it’s absolutely worth opening up the conversations.It sounds as though she may be new to the parliamentary game, but her reply heartens me because it’s a complete change from the usual cut and paste waffle that most MPs have been sending us. Yes, in an ideal world she would stand up for what she believes in, but I think it’s a step in the right direction, and may provide a small crack in the door.

123846 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Quernus, 3, #731 of 1659 🔗

I may be being too harsh on her. I know how difficult it is to go against the flow in an organisation.

123872 ▶▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Ed Phillips, 7, #732 of 1659 🔗

It’s the first time I’ve seen any MP (apart from the few vocal dissenting Conversative MPs on Twitter) give what looks like an honest and frustrated response. Her quick turnaround speaks to that too. I can’t imagine what she’s up against, so I think we should give her all the encouragement we can.

124114 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #733 of 1659 🔗

I wouldn’t be too harsh on her. It sounds like a reasonable judgement call that she can have more influence by staying in government. Principle is good but pragmatism also has its merits.

123824 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #734 of 1659 🔗

Wow! That reads like an honest answer from someone whose hands are tied!

123829 ▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Quernus, 1, #735 of 1659 🔗

Tied by who?

123836 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnMac, 4, #736 of 1659 🔗

By their own lack of honour.

If she truly believed she give up the PPS job and stand up for what she believed in.

123848 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #737 of 1659 🔗

..and make a big public speech about it. Now that might actually have an effect. If you vote in favour of the restrictions, no matter what you say, then you endorse them.

123853 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Achilles, #738 of 1659 🔗


123864 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Quernus, 6, #739 of 1659 🔗

it is understandable that she doesnt want to stick her head above the parapet. She does not have the freedoms of a back bench MP. and it is really they who should be starting to fight. Hopefully the 1922 committee will start this At least this one is a sceptic and will turn

123825 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mr Dee, 10, #740 of 1659 🔗

In other words “my career is more important than people’s freedom”.

123833 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #741 of 1659 🔗

Well done on getting a reply.

Walker and his deputy were copied on my letter to my MP but never even acknowledged it (no-one did) so maybe he’s had a change in attitude in the past few weeks now he can see the tide changing.

123845 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #742 of 1659 🔗

For those who missed it, I posted up my letter on this site earlier today.

123859 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #743 of 1659 🔗

John Redwood always published my comments on his blog

today’s offering


Stephen Priest
Posted September 10, 2020 at 6:07 am | Permalink

This year’s exam results have no value as they are based on guesswork.

Money has no value anymore it the Daily Mail headline is corecct:

Boris’s mass COVID testing moonshot ‘to cost £100BILLION’: PM’s plan to get life back to normal with 10 MILLION tests a day is forecast to cost almost as much as entire NHS budget – and experts warn it may not even be possible

Freedom has no value
What’s the point of having members of Parliament if they don’t protect their constituents form an overbearing Government.

By now the Government must know that lockdowns don’t work.

Peru went into lockdown 16th March – 911 deaths per million (the highest death rate in the world after San Marino)
Brazil – no lockdown – 602 deaths per million

Only 8 reported Covid death in the UK the day Boris Johnson decides to become Oliver Cromwell and threatens to ban Christmas.

No doubt we should call his Covid Marshal social distancing clowns Oliver’s Army, but that sounds too friendly.

123860 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mr Dee, #744 of 1659 🔗

Snout in the trough and no courage. Shame on her and her family!

123862 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Mr Dee, #745 of 1659 🔗

Why don’t you put that on several Newspaper Comments pages?

123876 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #746 of 1659 🔗

Ha! I have about three projects on the go at the same time this week – but if anyone else wants to do this (an excellent idea) feel free. I assume her reply to a constituent is immediately in the public domain? Or do I have to ask her permission to use her reply like this?

123878 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #747 of 1659 🔗

If she’s written to you. You’ve already put it in the public domain.

123950 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #748 of 1659 🔗

I think I might email her response to Toby and see if he wants to do anything with it…

123888 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mr Dee, 9, #749 of 1659 🔗

I can understand the response, but I think some people here are being a little harsh on this MP by expecting her to sacrifice her career on this point. As a junior MP, a resignation by her would carry little weight, and it might well be true that she can be more useful as a voice of reason inside the government. Though I absolutely do understand the cynical response, since it is an all too common excuse for lack of action by members of governments.

I do believe there should have been resignations from ministers over the lockdown in the first place, but this is relatively minor in comparison, given what has already been swallowed.

Just take a rare positive and thoughtful response as a good result, for now.

123896 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 1, #750 of 1659 🔗

I think some people here are being a little harsh on this MP by expecting her to sacrifice her career on this point.”

It’s not ‘a career’ – it’s a role to represent the interests of constituents.

She obviously doesn’t rate that democratic role too highly.

123909 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #751 of 1659 🔗

That is indeed also a fair position to take. I’m open to both sides of the issue myself, but tend to think in this case it’s better to focus on the positive content of the reply (I think it’s pretty much the best response I’ve sen from an MP here so far).

I don’t believe for a moment she has played any meaningful part in the decision-making of government on this, so I wouldn’t class her with the hard core criminals in the Cabinet.

123926 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #752 of 1659 🔗

I guess I’m intolerant of those who play at the role of MP – which involves working with a multitude of pressures. But if you flinch at those pressures, the job isn’t for you. Nobody forced you (unlike your constituents, bowed down by anti-democratic rules).

I mentioned yesterday that I had been looking at a film clip of Aneurin Bevan speaking at a rally in Trafalgar Square at the time of Suez.

Now Bevan was of a different order – but the clip is a reminder of what politics and opposition is all about. Remember- Suez split the country. But democratic politics never stopped, and Eden wasn’t given a free pass to behave like an idiot.

123938 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #753 of 1659 🔗

You are absolutely entitled to be so intolerant, of course. But the example you gave merely emphasizes the very different position in this case.

124507 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RickH, #754 of 1659 🔗

Exactly – it is not a career but a vocation to represent your constituent’s interests.

123943 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mark, 3, #755 of 1659 🔗

I agree that it’s nice to hear anything other than the stock response and it’s perhaps something to work with but if you don’t vote against it and don’t make any public pronouncements about your objections or concerns then it doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans does it? What if there’s 200 other MPs that feel and act in the same way? We’d still be locked down in 2 years. Let’s be clear this isn’t a vote on the size of EU bananas it’s the most severe restrictions on our freedoms since wartime with long-lasting effects on our society, economy and our childrens’ education. It’s very likely that she and her colleagues will never have a vote on something with such far-reaching consequences ever again. If you can’t stand up for what you believe in now then when can you?

123994 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Achilles, #756 of 1659 🔗

if you don’t vote against it and don’t make any public pronouncements about your objections or concerns then it doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans does it ? “

Well in truth her resignation wouldn’t amount to much more than a bean, either. It’s not the kind of impact a cabinet member resigning could have made. It’s easy to imagine that having some questioning voices inside government could have more impact, even at the lowest levels.

I mean I do understand the point about resigning on principle and have full respect for those who do (one or two over Iraq I recall), but I also have more sympathy for not doing so the more junior the individual.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for cabinet members in this regard.

124057 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mark, 1, #757 of 1659 🔗

I don’t need her to resign but some kind of attempt to bring sceptical ideas in the open for public debate would be nice at the very least. As far as the party are concerned as long as she votes the right way they won’t give a monkeys what she thinks. Do you see any evidence of Government changing policy? I can only assume that MPs either agree with it or are just going along with it because nary a one wants to raise their head above the parapet. I have sympathy for her position but I have more sympathy for the people who can’t see their loved ones in care homes, who couldn’t go to funerals, who’ve had their cancer treatment stopped, who missed out on their education, who’ve had their businesses ruined. That’s not directly her fault but if you’re a sceptic in a public position and don’t speak out then it’s still on you.

123930 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #758 of 1659 🔗

Good reply from the MP, all things considered

124124 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to WhyNow, 1, #759 of 1659 🔗

Interesting that she’s in Wales but in a border constituency. Which raises the nonsense of these issues being devolved. These “England only” measures will apply to many of her constituents as much as anything from Cardiff.

123828 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 26, #760 of 1659 🔗

Son says he’s losing friends on Facebook by the day which he takes as a compliment as he’s annoying them with the truth – his old work place has instigated masks for all kitchen staff at all times during their shift and due to being shorthanded they are doing 15 hours a day and they are all complaining like hell about it.

He posted what I’ve been sending him about masks, the law, how to tell you company you are not happy and how to fight their edicts and so on and he says they all unfriended him rather than ask more info on the subject.

The company have asked him to go back and he told them not very politely no until they get rid of all the mask bullshit and if they wanted more info to contact me as I live 2 miles from their main premises.

They ignored him.

Now local rumours are they are down 90% on pre-lockdown takings and going bust.

Serves them right.

123870 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #761 of 1659 🔗

Serves them right .”

If people won’t apply reason (due to fear or other emotional over-ride of the rational facilities) then only harsh reality can teach the lessons that should be learned through applying common sense. You can ignore reality as long as you want, but you can’t evade the consequences of ignoring reality forever.

Sadly when government panics, the innocent and the wise are dragged down along with the foolish and the feckless.

123891 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 6, #762 of 1659 🔗

That’s right. Boris, Handoncock etc. will carry on with their plentiful assets intact, and the revolving door will eventually spit them out into a world of money for old rope.

Meanwhile, those working in kitchens may be struggling to find viable employment.

123874 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #763 of 1659 🔗

Assuming your son is a reasonably young man, have his friends not noticed that they themselves are at an effective zero level of risk?

124065 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Liam, 3, #764 of 1659 🔗

He’s 26 and his friends don’t believe the numbers he’s posted.

Because “I saw it on facebook”.

When he pointed out other facebook posts telling the different he asked “why not believe this one a sit’s on facebook?”.

NO answer.

123880 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #765 of 1659 🔗

As I said the other day, when some Mayor type wanted to name and shame kitchen staff in restaurants for not wearing masks, why don’t you try it.

I have just a small (almost) domestic-sized kitchen at work and I am not doing proper cooking (I have just an oven and a few grills) but in summer it is stiflingly hot. Being in there all day with no proper ventillation is bloody awful. I challenge any boss/authority to try it out before they issue edicts such as the ones you mention. As you say though, serves them right if the rumours are true.

123881 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #766 of 1659 🔗

My local pub over the road which has since it was done up last year been a nice little boozer to visit put a flyer through our door yesterday begging for people to visit. We won’t as it is full on app for ordering, now the eat out scheme has finished it is empty, but it’s ok as I quote

2m distancing throughout our venue
Healthy happy staff for safer customers (full staff maskage)
Full company training for your safety.

Full perspex everywhere.

Fuck off, sad as I predict it will be shut before the end of the year.

123890 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 10, #767 of 1659 🔗

“Our toilets remain closed for your comfort and safety”.

123934 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to stefarm, 2, #768 of 1659 🔗

Have you told them that if they want your custom they have to lose the muzzles?

123946 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to arfurmo, 1, #769 of 1659 🔗

Nah, if I could be bothered to visit I would, bizarre how the patrons don’t wear a mask but the serving staff do 🤪

124950 ▶▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to stefarm, #770 of 1659 🔗

Print something off explaining why you won`t go and put it through their letterbox. If they are begging for customers and not getting them, then they need to know why that is.

124008 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to stefarm, 2, #771 of 1659 🔗

And from Monday compulsory details to be taken for T&T.

124070 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Fiat, #772 of 1659 🔗

Another SI or adding it into a “guideline” which is unenforceable?

Has he said which? I haven’t seen anything other than his quotes and verbal edicts.

Lots of false contact being given or even less customers going in is what will happen.

123986 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Awkward Git, #773 of 1659 🔗

All the intelligent ones (who are also great producers at work!) leave dumb companies like this!

124045 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #774 of 1659 🔗

We will see more and more of that sort of thing – businesses going bust due to these so-called Covid safety measures.

When will businesses, leisure centres and visitor attractions realise that people don’t want to be treated like lepers and be forced to wear masks, sanitise their hands and use ludicrous one way systems?

124661 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #775 of 1659 🔗

They seem remarkably resistant to the idea. I’ve taken a personal pledge not to patronise any business that treats me like hazardous materials. I am going to make an exception for my dentist in a couple of weeks but that is for an essential check. Otherwise, I haven’t set foot in a shop since July. My ASDA delivery guys love me, although they only see me once a month. eBay gets the rest of my business.

124273 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #776 of 1659 🔗

Your son is a brave man.
Hope he soon gets a top job working for people who are worthy of him.
When he opens his own restaurant, I’ll book.

124504 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to annie, 1, #777 of 1659 🔗

He’s been on the cruise ships, Worked for and with Rick and jack Stein, Rick sent him to assist Gordon Ramsey for a cooking demonstration, he is a really good chef but not head chef material yet and the plan up until March was I would get a pub/restaurant (actually in negotiations in March) and get him trained up as a proper head chef and then me and the wife go off travelling taking our share of the profits while he runs the place.

All gone to shit now.

124579 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #778 of 1659 🔗

Son just called, the place has just sacked all kitchen staff, front of house management will have to do the cooking for any customers that come in.

123835 Miss Owl, 17, #779 of 1659 🔗

Bollocks to Boris.

That is all.

123842 swedenborg, 10, #780 of 1659 🔗


Not much confidence in masks according to CDC guidelines. Look here for definition of close contact ie less than 6 feet for 15 min and what they should do.

 “Note: This is irrespective of whether the person with COVID-19 or the contact was wearing a mask or whether the contact was wearing respiratory personal protective equipment (PPE) .”

123843 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #781 of 1659 🔗
123844 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 27, #782 of 1659 🔗

The longer this goes on the more it discredits science, for one thing, and the medical establishment for another.

123851 ▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnMac, 9, #783 of 1659 🔗

one would hope so ……. maybe the climate change “scientists” are now seen for what they are – their models are already discredited

123873 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to mjr, 1, #784 of 1659 🔗

More Attenborough crap coming on the BBC.

123971 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to nottingham69, -1, #785 of 1659 🔗

that is somebody who should have been in a care home in March

124071 ▶▶ peter, replying to JohnMac, 3, #786 of 1659 🔗

Physics died on 9/11. Now the covid hoax put an end to science.

124973 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnMac, #787 of 1659 🔗

It’s about time.

123866 Stef, replying to Stef, #788 of 1659 🔗

Lockdown measures to fight Covid are like Brexit: illogical, sustained by smart and subtle propaganda, harmful for the country and for the population, used a cheap bargain to raise consensus. Crazy times

124379 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Stef, 1, #789 of 1659 🔗

I happen to share your opinion on Brexit but I no longer care about it all. This is way bigger than that and it’s pointless bringing up issues that divide us. There are too few of us as it is.

124655 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Chicot, 2, #790 of 1659 🔗

I agreed. I thought I was in despair about Brexit. Then I found out what despair really feels like. We need to stick together as the last sane people on Earth.

123868 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 15, #791 of 1659 🔗

These politicians know full well that there is no pandemic. They are deliberately doing this because their economies are collapsing and using this virus is the best way to pretend they are protecting the people while they are preparing to try to reorganize the economy and cleverly default on national debts. Boris Johnson is a disgrace to the conservative Party. I am glad Maggie Thatcher is not alive to see what Borris has done. Anyone who doubted that the British pound would penetrate the 1985 low, perhaps should take a closer look.


123920 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to 2 pence, 1, #792 of 1659 🔗

This is way bigger than Boris or the government. Why is there a lockdown in France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Holland? Why is the lockdown even stricter in Australia, New Zealand? It’s like the descent into WW1. Nobody wanted it, but everybody let it happen.

The two primary forces are the public guardians; and magic money.

124265 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to WhyNow, 3, #793 of 1659 🔗

A lot of people wanted lockdown
A lot of people still want it.
It’s so much easier than living.

124974 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #794 of 1659 🔗

The Lockdown Army.

124373 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to WhyNow, 2, #795 of 1659 🔗

It is the same all over the world because they are all singing from the same songbook, the governments are getting their orders/guidance from the same sources. The public are obeying because there has been a massive propaganda campaign resulting in the vast majority of them being terrified out of their wits.

124975 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Chicot, #796 of 1659 🔗

Quebec is considering implementing measures like your PM just did. What a coincidence!

123875 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #797 of 1659 🔗

A whimsical historical observation..

Two hundred years ago a repressive government introduced a bundle of repressive measures which were known as “The Six Acts”. Now we’ve got “The Six Act”!

124261 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #798 of 1659 🔗

And Henry VIII had his Six Articles to enable the (still more) brutal repression of dissent.
6 6 6…

123885 grammarschoolman, replying to grammarschoolman, -2, #799 of 1659 🔗

Hmm. Not sure why you’re publishing comments from an XR anti-Semite. Hardly what I would expect of this site.

123889 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #800 of 1659 🔗

Stop that nonsense now.

123898 ▶▶ Mark, replying to grammarschoolman, 8, #801 of 1659 🔗

Censoring (or “cancelling” if you prefer) people’s opinions because he disagrees with their views on other matters than the main focus of the comment would seem to be directly against the whole thrust of Toby’s work at the Free Speech Union, and would be behaving in exactly the way the worst kind of cancel culture antiracist bigots of the left behave.

Actually I was very favourably surprised that Toby did publish that opinion, because I would expect “antisemitism” and Israel to be a vulnerable point for his free speech principles, given his family connections, so credit to him. Of course, hostility to israel is no more meaningfully antisemitism than brexit or opposition to mass immigration is meaningfully “racist”.

123907 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 6, #802 of 1659 🔗

hostility to israel is no more meaningfully antisemitism than brexit or opposition to mass immigration is meaningfully “racist”.

Indeed – it’s a politically driven linguistic nonsense.

123929 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #803 of 1659 🔗

Fwiw, I agree with you that the accusations against Corbyn (and others) were exactly that, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for him or for any senior Labour Party or other leftist figure targeted for such smearing over Israel and “antisemitism”, because it’s basically what they spent their entire political careers doing to “racists”.

Rarely has the expression “hoist by their own petards” been more apt. It’s only a shame that they are undoubtedly too dogmatic and unselfaware to grasp the point.

124111 ▶▶▶▶▶ JYC, replying to Mark, #804 of 1659 🔗

There were Jews who were prepared to leave the UK if Corbyn had been elected PM. Tells you all you need to know.

124120 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to JYC, 2, #805 of 1659 🔗

God, not this bs again. So what? There were also Jews who supported Corbyn and thought the accusations against him were nonsense. Were they the wrong sort of Jews?

124130 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JYC, 1, #806 of 1659 🔗

I can certainly believe that some Jews would very, very much like for hostility to Israel to be rendered taboo in this country. I regard them as I do black people who want anyone who opposes mass immigration to be imprisoned for “racism”. (And, by the way, I don’t see any reason to give them any more credence than all the hysterics in the US who claimed they would leave if Trump was elected – not personally aware of any who did, in the event. People tend to exaggerate and to get overexcited about these issues. We’ll never know now, of course, but genuinely I don’t believe a single Jewish person would have left the country merely because Labour had won the last election.)

There surely is genuinely nasty antisemitism and genuinely nasty racism around in this country, as everywhere, but in national cultural and political terms neither is anywhere near as much of a problem as is the intolerance of free expression and opinion represented by the attempts to render such positions (as pro-Palestinian or anti-immigration/brexit etc) taboo by association. Imo.

124651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mark, #807 of 1659 🔗

I left the US in 2018 because of Trump (in part). I’m not a hysteric, obviously, as evidenced by my presence here. But I left because I expected the US to break out in civil war after the upcoming election. We won’t know for a few more months whether my prediction was correct.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire, as we say in the States (fire pronounced in two syllables). Now I’m wondering if I’d be better off back in the US if we have mandatory daily testing here. I’m hoping that our government’s famous incompetence will save me from that choice.

124152 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JYC, 2, #808 of 1659 🔗

Which is to say, I abhor cancel culture, whether it is from the right or the left.

123886 Bart Simpson, 3, #809 of 1659 🔗

Karol Sikora on Triggernometry:


123893 PWL, replying to PWL, 3, #810 of 1659 🔗

“And iI will be voting – if given the chance to vote in this rather strange Parliament – to curtail the Government’s powers in his area.”


Action to end the interminable unlawful lockdown

123940 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to PWL, 2, #811 of 1659 🔗

It worries me that he wrote ‘if given the chance’ – implies the government do not intend to allow Parliament to vote, even though I believe that was written into the legislation..
Will they just use another SI to avoid giving MPs the chance to vote?

123955 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 3, #812 of 1659 🔗

I wouldn’t read too much into that. I don’t think he’s actually implying that he thinks he won’t be given the chance, it’s a sarcastic comment about how little parliament has been consulted to date.

123897 Andrew, replying to Andrew, #813 of 1659 🔗
124445 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Andrew, #814 of 1659 🔗

Thanks for posting this. A huge Rik fan, but I’ve never seen this film. Know what I’ll be watching later 👍

123899 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 17, #815 of 1659 🔗

So the three national liabilities who stood there yesterday at the Downing Street press conference want to implement daily population-wide testing so that we can “get back to normal”. A cost of £100bn has been suggested for this grand scheme. Quite apart from the total impossibility of implementing the nonsensical idea let’s just consider the amount of money it could involve. One hundred billion pounds – that’s one hundred thousand million pounds. An astronomical sum in more ways than one. A £20 note has a thickness of 0.113 mm (i.e. it’s bloody thin). A vertical stack of £20 notes with a value of £100bn would rise 565 km, or 353 miles. Outer space commences at about 100 km (62 miles) above the ground. So it’s an astronomical amount of money, without doubt. As someone pointed out below, it must surely be time for the three stooges, and a few of their fellow maniacs, to be put in straight-jackets and carted off to the asylum.

123911 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Tenchy, 3, #816 of 1659 🔗

” An astronomical sum in more ways than one.”

Not really. It’s just a few numbers on a computer which then move accounts within the Bank of England causing real things to happen.

Surely after the furlough scheme you no longer believe that there can ever be a shortage of money to do anything we have the physical capacity to do?

Money never is and never has been the limiting factor in the UK.

123917 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #817 of 1659 🔗

they will just QE it I imagine. But there are better ways with better health outcomes of spending £100bn

123933 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to steve_w, 3, #818 of 1659 🔗

Undoubtedly. Another time-wasting opportunity: how long would it take for a printing press to create the money – and let’s be generous, it can print £1000 value per second as a sheet of 50 £20 notes. Answer: 115 days. God job they don’t have to actually print it. The bastards are sending us to hell in a handcart.

123960 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Lucan Grey, #819 of 1659 🔗

You keep believing that.Somewhere along the line it has to Keep touch with reality.We cannot feed ourselves so our very existence is reliant on foreigners excepting our currency in payment.How long will that last if we continue to print or these days with the touch of a keypad.

123962 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #820 of 1659 🔗

Well we can re-prioritise people from one activity to another, yes, but then there are not people doing that other activity, which was presumably previously deemed useful

I’d rather not live in a country where we employed thousands of people doing tests that were not needed

124344 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lucan Grey, #821 of 1659 🔗

Absolutely, right until rampant inflation takes hold and we have to pay thousands of pounds for a loaf of bread….

124645 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Lms23, #822 of 1659 🔗

Come by my place. I’ve got lots of potatoes from my allotment. Some onions, shallots and winter squash. Last meal before we all starve.

124122 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Tenchy, 3, #823 of 1659 🔗

Wouldn’t it be cheaper just to put Granny in a better nursing home?

124132 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Thinkaboutit, 5, #824 of 1659 🔗

and spend the £100 billion moonshine on the care homes and improving productivity and clinical outcomes in the NHS

124257 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, #825 of 1659 🔗

Please turf out Hancock and take over his job.
What are you waiting for?

124190 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Tenchy, 1, #826 of 1659 🔗

I saw 10 million tests daily as the initial goal. With a 1% false positive rate, we’re looking at 100,000 false positives a day, 700,000 a week, unless you’re unfortunate enough to test positive twice. Add whatever number (small) of true positives. With a 14-day quarantine for each person, we’re looking at millions under quarantine within a month. And this rolling on indefinitely or until we finally do manage to shut down the entire economy.

124678 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tenchy, #827 of 1659 🔗

This floated insane idea should be enough to set people thinking that the intention is even more sinister than all but a few have hitherto realised.

123903 Edna, replying to Edna, 9, #828 of 1659 🔗

Edit: Sorry! I’ve just seen that this has already been shared.

Very good interview with Jonathan Sumption in this podcast. It starts at about 14 mins (though the other bits of the podcast are interesting too).


He points out (which I didn’t know) that most of the government restrictions are not made under the 2020 Coronavirus act but under the 1984 Public Health Act. So that even if Parliament opposes the renewal of the the Coronovirus Act later this month, that won’t affect most of the restrictions.

123921 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Edna, 2, #829 of 1659 🔗

It is indeed an excellent interview. The point he makes about the government not using the correct originating Act of Parliament from which to hang the coronavirus legislation (mostly statutory instruments) primarily to avoid parliamentary scrutiny is a damning indictment. And I think that’s the same argument being advanced by Simon Dolan and the Keep Britain Free campaign in their court action seeking judicial review of the government’s decisions – https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/ (it’s worth having a look at the legal documents referred to).

124136 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Edna, 4, #830 of 1659 🔗

Not 100% correct.

They needed the 2 original coronavirus S.I.s to get the Public Health legislation going as it does not mention coronavirus nor Covid-19 in it so it could not be used as a stand alone piece of legislation in this instance as it stands.

Additional problem is that if councils enforce the Public Health Act to do so requires court papers signed by a Justice of the peace, it cannot be used to shut down whole industries, cities or areas but is done on an individual person or premises basis and then the kicker – the councils are liable for paying the compensation for any costs or losses incurred from day the notice is serve dot the day it is lifted.

So to shut down whole swathes of businesses and areas another set of S.I.s were needed.

This is why councils are not doing it this way but verbally with threats of prosecution under HSE law plus central governments ay “self isolate” and this way when you ask for compensation they answer is “but you are doing it voluntary, we never told you to do it so you get nothing”.

It’s all smoke and mirrors.

I know this is true as I have it in writing from various councils this is what is going on plus the government had to remind them a month or so ago to use the Public health legislation in their “new framework”.

It’s been discussed on here previously so Jonathan Sumption just catching up on something that has been known about for months.

At least he’s waking up and catching up.

124143 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #831 of 1659 🔗

This is all the public health act covers:

Notifiable diseases

In this Act, ” notifiable disease ” means any of the following diseases—

relapsing fever;
smallpox; and

See, all victorian diseases, no coronavirus, no covid-19 etc

Hence the S.I.s.

124735 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, #832 of 1659 🔗

What I took away from what he said was that he thinks Dolan has a good case.

123905 Awkward Git, 4, #833 of 1659 🔗

Dilbert bought a smile to my face from a few days ago

123915 John P, replying to John P, 21, #834 of 1659 🔗

“Understanding the change requires some mastery of cutting edge molecular genetics”

Hmm. Well, it might require some degree of knowledge of bog standard lab tests in molecular biology. The PCR test is not new.

I’ll have a go at this. I have a degree in Chemistry and an educated layman’s interest in biochemistry and molecular biology.

Put very simply. DNA is an extremely long stringlike molecule which is wound up like a ball. A copy of it sits in the heart of every living cell. The length of the individual strands contain “codes”. We refer to these codes as genes. When a cell receives signals that a particular gene needs to be expressed a piece of the DNA is copied. This is a relatively small stretch of this DNA. It is a very similar molecule referred to as “RNA”.

The RNA is transported out of the centre of the cell and a further chemical process takes place to create a piece of protein. This is what DNA ultimately “codes” for. We are often said to be carbon based life forms. More accurately we might be described as protein based life forms.

Viruses are clever in that they consist of a strand of DNA or RNA which “codes” for the protein coat that contains and protects it. Ingenius. It invades (infects) cells and hijacks the machinery of the cell, using that to manufacture copies of its DNA (or RNA) and the protein coat that protect it. These pieces spontaneously ressemble themselves and when the cell is exhausted, whole viral particles break out of the dead cell and go on to infect and kill other cells.

The PCR test works by using these processes to make copies of any strand of DNA or RNA that may exist in a sample. A single strand on it’s own cannot be detected. If you have one strand an identical copy can be made. Still that would be impossible to detect.

Do it again and you have four. Again and you have eight, then sixteen and fairly soon by continually repeating this process you have millions of copies of the single strand you started with and that can at some point be detected.

So you then know what you had to begin with.

You can gauge to some degree the amount you started with in this way, but the sky’s the limit with these “cycles” the more you do the more material you end up with. So if you stop at a set number of cycles (eg 25) for all samples you can get an idea of the relative amounts you started with for each sample and thus the level of “infection”.

123954 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to John P, 2, #835 of 1659 🔗

Great post.

123957 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Victoria, 3, #836 of 1659 🔗

Wow – you’ve managed to explain the whole process – now I fully understand the false positives/ no of cycles conundrum . Agree – great post.

124047 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to John P, 3, #837 of 1659 🔗

Except they go on to 35-40 cycles and report the tiny amount of virus or viral fragments as a positive test result.

124101 ▶▶ Edward, replying to John P, 3, #838 of 1659 🔗

Excellent. Explaining complex scientific matters in such a way that they can be understood by non-specialists is a valuable skill.

124131 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 1, #839 of 1659 🔗

John, you have a stronger platform from which to analyse this than many who are currently advising government! As many as us fellow scientists (originally, anyway!) as submit to the vaccine consultation the better. The government cannot be allowed to get away with this any longer and heads need to roll.

123924 Girl down Under, replying to Girl down Under, 4, #840 of 1659 🔗

This from Andrew Bolt tonight. Sky News Australia

123958 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Girl down Under, 1, #841 of 1659 🔗

Impassioned stuff and absolutely nail on head.

123931 snippet, replying to snippet, 3, #842 of 1659 🔗

At what point does a military coup happen?

123936 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to snippet, 2, #843 of 1659 🔗

Too late. UK armed forces under EU rule now i think.

124033 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to snippet, 6, #844 of 1659 🔗

We have had the coup we need a counter coup

123942 BeBopRockSteady, 9, #845 of 1659 🔗

Parliament was a disgrace this morning. All the focus on Karen having to travel 50 miles to get a test for a runny nose.

Hrdly a peep about the measures.

123948 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #846 of 1659 🔗

Who are these idiots and how did they get to positions of power?

124044 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to richard riewer, 4, #847 of 1659 🔗

Unfortunately, we voted for them.
And unfortunately, there was b*gg*r all choice.

123956 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #848 of 1659 🔗



115K subscribers

I can’t believe what I’m seeing. Piers lies about hospital admissions, BBC online print what they wouldn’t broadcast on the news & Denise gives up. Here’s the facts!!!

124118 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #849 of 1659 🔗

It’s gone ?!

123959 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 20, #851 of 1659 🔗

Has anyone else spotted this comment from the DM:

“I work in a lab processing the results, the reason for the spike was given to the government in a statement from the Association for Clinical Biochemistry and Laboratory Medicine stating that the results do NOT show a rise in infections, but that due to the backlog of tests, it meant that we was processing 4/5 days worth in a day, causing the daily results to appear grossly different to the previous days. I have absolutely no idea why the government are dismissing this, I was completely all for this government but to see this happen, has absolutely flabbergasted me!”

That’s entirely plausible. Labs won’t necessarily run samples as they arrive in a lab, as it’s not always cost effective, but will batch samples up and run them all together.
So the “spikes” in infections may be nothing of the kind.

123982 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Lms23, 4, #852 of 1659 🔗

Good one. It makes sense, given the sudden, large, rise. A gradual increase would normally be expected. If there’s a decline in the positive test numbers over the next few days, it would support the claim.

I wonder if there’s any independent verification and auditing of the testing data?

124193 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 3, #853 of 1659 🔗

If there is a decline, they will say that the rule of six has been effective before it has even come into force, in fact it’s so obviously effective if it works before it’s even started that we must continue with it indefinitely.

124243 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #854 of 1659 🔗

Were you Lewis Carroll in a previous life?

124321 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to annie, #855 of 1659 🔗

I’ll take that as a compliment!

123995 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Lms23, 5, #856 of 1659 🔗

Surely even a complete imbecile would know to report on the date of the test and not the date of the result? It’s almost like someone is manipulating the results to further an agenda. The stuff of conspiracies of course.

124042 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to leggy, 2, #857 of 1659 🔗

It’s the same as the government announcements of the number of CV19 deaths. The CEBM looked at them and many were distributed over the previous two weeks or more.

124198 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to leggy, 2, #858 of 1659 🔗

I really think they are. Same way we had those 32 deaths for just one day, right as cases dramatically doubled overnight, the week that schools returned which of course we’ve been told will raise the R level (but schools are safe! Kids don’t spread it! We’ll fine you if you don’t send your kids to school!). It’s all way too convenient and highly suspicious.

124001 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Lms23, 5, #859 of 1659 🔗

This is truly outrageous, this should bring down this risible and corrupt government, when we have our day of reckoning.

Not at all surprising, but to see the factual proof and still bring in new draconian measures, unforgivable.

The blonde buffoon was never my choice for Conservative leader, but I never thought he would turn out like this, not fit to run a bath, never mind a Country.

Next up he’ll commit trillions to fix a problem that doesn’t exist (AGW) and betray the fishing industry and get us a shit trade deal. No spine, utterly gutless.

God help us!

124024 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Lms23, 1, #860 of 1659 🔗

The reported “cases by specimen date” does still show a large increase from 1st September onwards ( https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases ). However what is STILL missing is the number of tests performed in England since 2nd September…

123961 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #861 of 1659 🔗

Daily Mail: Meet the covid marshals: Army of workers who will enforce new lockdown rules.

124002 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #862 of 1659 🔗

From the article:

Ken Marsh, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation:

‘Because if they don’t actually have any powers, you know what Joe Public will do very quickly. When the stick needs to be wielded then you need to have the ability to wield it.’

I hope he’s speaking figuratively. What contempt the police have for the people who pay their wages. A contempt increasingly being reciprocated.

124014 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tenchy, 3, #863 of 1659 🔗

I’m actually looking forward to them being deployed. I know we will do it on the cheap and they will be sitting ducks.

124029 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #864 of 1659 🔗

What a recipe for chaos.Some Prat in a hi vis telling you what to do with no power to enforce anything.
When PCSOs were introduced I remember the kids chasing and hounding them calling them snide old bill.Good luck breaking up a group of youngsters in one of the rougher areas

124040 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #865 of 1659 🔗

“I work in a lab processing the results, the reason for the spike was given to the government in a statement from the Association for Clinical Biochemistry and Laboratory Medicine stating that the results do NOT show a rise in infections, but that due to the backlog of tests, it meant that we was processing 4/5 days worth in a day, causing the daily results to appear grossly different to the previous days. I have absolutely no idea why the government are dismissing this, I was completely all for this government but to see this happen, has absolutely flabbergasted me!”

Comment btl.
Entirely plausible.

123967 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 22, #866 of 1659 🔗


124038 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to T. Prince, 8, #868 of 1659 🔗

Which is especially egregious as it’s very well known that the virus is killed within minutes in bright sunshine, and is very poorly transmitted outdoors.

124174 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to T. Prince, 2, #869 of 1659 🔗

You know, I’ve always hated infowars. But this is horrifying and I’m glad they’re publicising it.

123969 Mark, replying to Mark, 11, #870 of 1659 🔗

Since we seem to be seeing (finally!) the beginnings of proper dissent and debate in this, presumably we are now on the clock for the PM and his cronies withdrawing into a bunker of denial under fire from all quarters.

Has anyone yet done one of those “Hitler bunker speech” parodies for him? Seems like we’ll need them soon.

124172 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #872 of 1659 🔗

Good old Bruno Ganz. Sadly missed.

123988 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #874 of 1659 🔗

For those feeling a little down, and as if the world is against us, hope is growing. Take a listen to this guy, who has supported the government throughout all the measures. It’s made my day:


124161 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to T. Prince, 2, #876 of 1659 🔗

I love the way they pull her out of the hands the police and all the police can do is back away.

124096 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #877 of 1659 🔗

JHB gets at Schapps also – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-DpsGTYKd4

He mentions deaths spiking in Spain. Not that I can see, is there evidence of that?

124148 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sarigan, #878 of 1659 🔗

According to Worldometers, the average has increased from 30-odd deaths daily to 60-odd.


124163 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #879 of 1659 🔗

And if you look at the graph you can see that from 30 to 60 is a very small number compared to what it was in March. Overreaction, as usual.

124217 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #880 of 1659 🔗

Yeah, universal mask wearing and foul abuse of kids is plainly bearing fruit.

124109 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #881 of 1659 🔗

Fuck me, somebody has woken up. Well done Simon

123990 GuyRich, replying to GuyRich, 1, #882 of 1659 🔗

This was the reply I received yesterday from my MP Greg Smith, Buckingham, after I asked how he would vote in the upcoming review of the Coronavirus Act 2020 and his reasons:

Thank you for your email.

All the measures in the Coronavirus Act are temporary, and proportionate to the threat we face. I understand they will only be used when strictly necessary, and will only be in place for as long as required to respond to the situation. I can assure you that I will be first in the queue to vote to remove these measures when circumstances allow.

Thanks again for getting in touch and sharing your views.

Kind regards

124025 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to GuyRich, 3, #883 of 1659 🔗

They are disproportionate, he doesn’t get it, or isn’t willing to differ from his useless cabinet colleagues. Argh.

124041 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to GuyRich, 1, #884 of 1659 🔗

Do he doesn’t answer the question! When ‘circumstances are appropriate’?

124104 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to GuyRich, 2, #885 of 1659 🔗

Well that was a non- answer.

124210 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Thinkaboutit, #886 of 1659 🔗

At least he didn’t say that the bollox is going to last for ever and he wanted it that way.

123992 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 18, #887 of 1659 🔗

Was thinking about those polls that ‘show’ that 60+% of the population agree with the governments restrictions and got to wondering why this could possibly be the case.

The most obvious starting point is that the media did a fantastic job in frightening everyone to death and this has continued ever since. Other factors in relation to this is that it’s a global ‘disaster’ and other countries are imposing similar or worse restrictions on their citizens.(why would they all be doing that if it isn’t true???)

The biggest issue for me now though is that we’re living in two parallel worlds with no sense of proportion of the disaster looming outside of ‘covid world’. ie

Little reporting of the impending economic collapse

Little mention of the wider health problems that lockdown will/is bringing.

Little perspective/context of the number of daily covid deaths against ‘normal’ mortality rates

Despite the restrictions, there is a continuing sense of ‘normality’. Apart from the ‘bog roll blip’ at the beginning, supermarkets are full, ads on the TV (apart from showing people in masks to reinforce the message that covid is still here) still want to sell you lots of stuff and Holly and Phil are still happy clapping and yaying on daytime TV.

People can still indulge with online shopping, Amazon delivery drivers have never been busier!

People are sat at home on full pay or have been furloughed.

Restricting gatherings to 6 mean very little to most as it’s a ‘little price to pay to keep just one granny alive’.Unfortunately, I think reality will only bite when the financial reality bites at a personal level, when services start to collapse and people get a great big slap in the face with the ‘new normal’. But by then it will be too late……

124004 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to T. Prince, 9, #888 of 1659 🔗

The polls are wrong.

124011 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Ovis, 1, #889 of 1659 🔗

No doubt about that…

124015 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Ovis, -1, #890 of 1659 🔗

How can you be so sure?

124021 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #891 of 1659 🔗

Because they often are, e.g. predicting the Brexit vote, or the U.S. 2016 election

124080 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, 2, #892 of 1659 🔗

Actually – it isn’t as simple as that. The ones that you mention were about very narrow margins.

In other polls like this are highly dependent on the way in which a question id posed – which is a key factor.

… then there’s the critical issue of sampling.

124937 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to RickH, #893 of 1659 🔗

Election 2016 wasn’t supposed to be all that narrow – just before election night CNN had Clinton 90+% (chance of winning) NY Times also well over 90%.. sure I remember BBC being around 98% for Clinton too…

But yes, totally, a lot of polls ask the wrong questions – A lot of people, when asked, may well somewhat dislike things about Donald Trump: but they still will sure as hell vote for him!

124022 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ovis, 3, #894 of 1659 🔗

Seems to still align broadly with my own experiences talking to people. There’s a lot more willingness to question around, now, but still plenty of people not really resisting authority.

124074 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #895 of 1659 🔗

I reckon that’s a fair summary – it gels with my experience.

124091 ▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Mark, 3, #896 of 1659 🔗

A lot of people think the whole think is absurd and overdone, but accept they must obey the law.

Few realise unjust laws should be opposed, especially those brought in by government diktat or decree, unsupported by parliament.

124005 ▶▶ Liam, replying to T. Prince, 5, #897 of 1659 🔗

It’s down from the frightening, astronomical 90% and more back in the Spring.

124207 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Liam, 1, #898 of 1659 🔗

Keep pushing.

124016 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to T. Prince, 10, #899 of 1659 🔗

Polls are a means to influence public opinion not gauge it

124019 ▶▶ mjr, replying to T. Prince, 1, #900 of 1659 🔗

depends on the poll .. some of them are fixed. the yougov one referred to elsewhere on this page allows a person to vote as many times as they want. So you dont think that government agents are fiddling these .. either manually or with bots ? Of course they are… they want you to think that you are a minority view

124030 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to T. Prince, 2, #901 of 1659 🔗

It’s purely to stop the people getting together to form a people’s trade union.

It won’t work. It’s already happening.

124031 ▶▶ John P, replying to T. Prince, 2, #902 of 1659 🔗

“Was thinking about those polls that ‘show’ that 60+% of the population agree with the governments restrictions and got to wondering why this could possibly be the case.”

I was wondering the same myself.

My feeling was that yougov polls may contain some degree of pro-government bias in the same way that a poll conducted by Simon Dolan might contain some degree of anti-government bias.

A twitter poll by Julia Hartley-Brewer, who is a bit of a fence sitter, gave 30% unwilling to comply and 30% who will comply but think the rules are stupid.

124046 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to T. Prince, 2, #903 of 1659 🔗

It’s how you frame the question. To’ prevent a second wave’? Should ask – do you think the government should be allowed to tell you how many people you can meet socially inside AND outside – and make this a criminal offence ( even if you meet one person too many) and for an unlimited period?

124085 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Telpin, #904 of 1659 🔗

Remember too that the phrase ‘second wave’ means things getting as bad as they were first time. SAGE clearly imply this though they have no basis outside panic for doing so.

124055 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to T. Prince, 2, #905 of 1659 🔗

1 – people watch the bbc
2 – some people have jobs they hate and have liked furlough
3 – guardian readers
4 – teachers (see 3)
5 – government workers

124068 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, #906 of 1659 🔗

Your own brain-washed slip is showing.

124095 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to T. Prince, 6, #907 of 1659 🔗

To me, 40% not in favour of the law seems too high a proportion for this to continue. For a society to function properly you can’t have 40% of the population not ‘bought in’ to the law. The house of cards will fall soon enough.

124156 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #908 of 1659 🔗

Sincerely hope you’re right…..

124106 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to T. Prince, 1, #909 of 1659 🔗

My cousin who used to work in the NHS in an allied profession is utterly convinced that all non-covid concerns are the result of people not complying with restrictions and will be resolved if we all cower at home. I am sure plenty of others think the same

124129 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to T. Prince, 5, #910 of 1659 🔗

I can only hope. However my neighbour in her late 70s (usually very levelheaded), appreciates the restrictions, she says her husband is vulnerable and since lockdown they only allowed the grandchildren in the house a week ago. No he is not vulnerable in that sense.

They listen to the letters they receive from the NHS telling them they are vulnerable, they religiously take their cocktail of pharmaceutical drugs (potentially some contraindications and some unnecessary). They have no clue that they should build their immune systems as that is the only thing that protects us all from the daily onslaught of bacteria, viruses and other pathogens.

124154 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Victoria, 7, #911 of 1659 🔗

And yet the sensible response is to take action to strengthen your immune system. I’m in the process of switching to a low carb diet and have lost over 6 kg in the past two months. Aiming to lose 15 altogether, along with about 6 cm off my waistline to match the recommendations I’ve found. That plus sunshine and working my allotment has made me feel physically better than I have in years. Too bad most people make other people responsible for their health.

124167 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #912 of 1659 🔗

Good work! I have lost over a stone this year so far. Silver linings of lockdown.

124209 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sophie123, 3, #913 of 1659 🔗

I’ve lost half a stone and acquired a fine tan.

124184 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #914 of 1659 🔗

Gold star! Well done you!

124189 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #915 of 1659 🔗

Well done.

124312 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #916 of 1659 🔗

Good for you! I started intermittent fasting a few months ago — only eat between noon and 8 p.m. as it’s great for metabolic health. Limiting carbs is the key, which I need to do more of in addition to the intermittent fasting. I stocked up on Vitamin D, Magnesium, Vitamin K and Zinc as the summer is just about done. We sceptics need to stay healthy!

124371 ▶▶▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #917 of 1659 🔗

Well done! I’ve shed a stone in 4 weeks by sticking to 1500 calories a day. No extra efforts. Hasn’t felt particularly hard, except for fleeting urges to have an unhealthy treat now and again. Keep it up! 🙂

124641 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #918 of 1659 🔗

Thanks everyone for your kind words. I feel driven to do something positive with my life, even if it is just making myself more physically healthy. I’m also on a lot of the same supplements mentioned below so I think we’re on the same wavelength. I don’t think I’ll ever voluntarily use the NHS again.

My mental health is another issue altogether. I was a loner before but now feel like no one is worthy of trust. I’m isolating myself from other people completely – who knows who will be the next coronafanatic I run into. Better to stay away from people.

It’s a struggle to use an exemption card and put up with the hate stares and occasional nasty comment, but I feel like I’ve got to do something to fight this. Considering how few people I see without masks, it seems quite a bold stance even with an exemption card.

124179 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Victoria, 1, #919 of 1659 🔗

If they’ve been having flu shots, as well as all that medication, the odds are their immune systems are shot anyway. I have neighbours like yours and I am so sad to see that previously sociable, salt of the earth types have become so lethargic.

124160 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to T. Prince, 3, #920 of 1659 🔗

I am in London this week. I just went for a walk around Southfields. The cult of Covid is strong there. NHS rainbows in every window, and horrible pictures of a woman in a superman mask as well.
It’s a very strange cult-like thing. Why is it so strong here? I would say it is mostly young middle class families kind of area.

Actually it is probably the sort of area that gets polled a lot (remain & labour voting cosy middle middle class lifestyle, sort that worship Tony Blair & the NHS, Bridget Jones types)

124314 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Sophie123, 1, #921 of 1659 🔗

That’s why I left our city place in May and hardly go back. The city is full of young virtue-signallers and it makes me physically ill to see all the mask wearing — even outside where we don’t even have a mandate (yet)!

124683 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to T. Prince, #922 of 1659 🔗

We had the poll debate yesterday as well .Before we take any notice of these polls can someone please tell us how many people took part ? was it online ? and were the questions loaded?. And even if after all this we give it the benefit of the doubt and say its true ,so what ? .At the start of the lockdown the so called polls said 90% agreed with the government and now they say only 60% .I call that progress.

124020 Liam, replying to Liam, 12, #923 of 1659 🔗

A lot of people have been making light of the Covid Marshals, including me.

But there is a very real chance that the outright scum of the Earth will be recruited, empowered to abuse all and sundry in whatever way takes their fancy. Anyone believe for one nanosecond there’ll be any proper vetting, criminal checks etc? Me neither.

124028 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Liam, 5, #924 of 1659 🔗

Amongst other things it is an attempt to reduce the unemployment figures when furlough ends

124051 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Fiat, 1, #925 of 1659 🔗

testing, track and trace and these masrshalls could probably employ everyone in the country

124089 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to steve_w, 5, #926 of 1659 🔗

Full employment! The majority of the population paid to do counterproductive makework.

It’s a pretty logical consequence of believing in the magic money tree, after all.

124036 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Liam, 5, #927 of 1659 🔗

Like the Black and Tans in Ireland under Lloyd George, until the King told the prime minister to desist.

124058 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #928 of 1659 🔗

The parallel had occurred to me.

124116 ▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Liam, 1, #929 of 1659 🔗

Me too.

124121 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #930 of 1659 🔗

Aye, another act of sheer bloody lunacy that gives me a recurring twinge of shame to be British every time I hear that group mentioned. With the same result as then, if the government isn’t careful.

124039 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Liam, 5, #931 of 1659 🔗

My concern is – what powers will they have – in particular to enter property- or will they simply contact the police so the police then enforce. We’re are living in frightening times.

124215 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Telpin, 2, #932 of 1659 🔗

They must NOT be given the right to enter people’s homes..

124049 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Liam, 2, #933 of 1659 🔗

they’ll be as useful as PCSOs

124145 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to steve_w, 2, #934 of 1659 🔗

Another bunch of useless wankers.

124781 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Liam, #935 of 1659 🔗

Hard to see them being anything other than seriously outnumbered.

124067 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Tom Blackburn, #937 of 1659 🔗

Pin this.

And if there isn’t….

Game over for him.

124125 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to hotrod, 1, #938 of 1659 🔗

There will be….any ‘respiratory’ or flu death will be down to covid.

BTW, why is this twerp still infecting the air waves, thought he resigned?

124077 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #939 of 1659 🔗

Loving the comments on the thread

124100 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Sarigan, 1, #940 of 1659 🔗

They are funny!

124084 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #941 of 1659 🔗

If they use the current metrics of reporting and attribution along with the prevalence of Covid in the population, deaths due to Covid will be any respiratory ailment. Plus we always get the start of the flu season late August and September.

Has he quantified exactly and with what level of uncertainty (between 1 and 10000 doesn’t count)?

124105 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #942 of 1659 🔗

Given the reaction to the “Law of Six” so far, there may be trouble ahead if they’re thinking of pushing any harder. Bring it on…

124052 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #943 of 1659 🔗

People are out ‘to prove President Trump wrong’ on Hydroxychloroquine


Sky News Australia

Liberal MP Craig Kelly says there has been study after study that shows that Hydroxychloroquine, when administered early, can “lower the rates of infections” of COVID-19.

124060 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #944 of 1659 🔗


Surprise! Swedish PM Admits Immigration Crime Connection / New “Super Simple” Rules for the English

124092 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #945 of 1659 🔗

I would keep immigration out of this and focus purely on the issue of personal freedoms vis a vis Covid. Our cause needs to be pure and seen as apolitical as possible!

124098 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to jhfreedom, 8, #946 of 1659 🔗

Definitely. There are fortunately few hobby-horses being ridden around at the moment. Keep it that way. I’ve just been watching the latest UK Column, and the hobby horses in this edition were diluting their generally strong output re. Corona.

124147 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to RickH, 2, #947 of 1659 🔗

Anti-vaxx and conspiracy and 5G &c &c just don’t help us. The coronaphobes will jump on ANYTHING to undermine our case.

124201 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #948 of 1659 🔗

Agree. ‘Restore the old normal’ should be our sole aim.

124777 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to jhfreedom, #949 of 1659 🔗

Yep, we should base our behaviour on what brainwashed frightened sheep would prefer.

124073 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #950 of 1659 🔗


Boris admits his new ‘Covid Marshals’ WON’T be able to arrest people or issue fines and can be volunteers – as ‘baffled’ police say they have ‘no idea’ what their role is
I assume The Boris Blackshit ‘Covid Marshals’ will have MAGIC immunity from the deadly COVID

124081 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #951 of 1659 🔗

Even more licence to treat them with the contempt they deserve then, bring it on!

124093 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #952 of 1659 🔗

It will be interesting to see how many saddos might sign up to this.

124103 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #953 of 1659 🔗

They will be nothing more than state-licensed bullies, and should get the disrespect they will so reichly (not a spelling mistake) deserve.

As for the colour of their shirts, they should be brown, as for the SA in Germany, which they seek to imitate; black, so reminiscent of Mosley, has already been taken by our Border Force!

124390 ▶▶ jojo, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #954 of 1659 🔗

What could happen is the marshals inspecting one house/place after another and spreading the virus themselves in the process.

124087 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 6, #955 of 1659 🔗

For consideration: Howie Hubler, a Morgan Stanley broker (famous from the Big Short) lost $8 billion in one trade in the midst of the GFC.

Compared to the impact of Ferguson he is a rank amateur.

124090 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to mhcp, 4, #956 of 1659 🔗

Someone will have been on the other side of that trade so the money was not lost to society. But this farce will see permanent damage that can’t be recovered. There is a difference.

124200 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #957 of 1659 🔗

Just as some astonishing blaggers (a.k.a. management consultants, specifically in this instance, Boston Consulting), are on the other side of Rasputin Cummings’ fantasy trade of up to £100 BN on Operation Moonshot ( Mass Observation Of Numpties: Super Hyper Outrageous Tomfoolery). The money funnel swings into action, the taxpayer foots the bill for something entirely pointless at enormous cost. We fund Cummings’ dream of ruling the UK from a NASA style bunker control room (says it all, doesn’t it?) all flickering screens and flashing lights, to monitor us, ‘for our own return to normal(cy)’)!
Cost – about 6 times what we were alleged to be sending to the EU annually, or so we were told on the side of that bus. Not that anybody believed any of those figures, except the majority of the great British public, of course -rather like now. At least we used to get something or other back for it, the odd road or swimming pool possibly, not constant blanket surveillance.

124205 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bruno, #958 of 1659 🔗

Excellent comment!

124218 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bruno, 2, #959 of 1659 🔗

Surely it should be CumShot (I appreciate the tone but it’s Cummings Moon Shot)

124254 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mhcp, 1, #960 of 1659 🔗

It was called the money shot back in the 70s, that is what the male starts got the money for.

This is going to be pissed away in the wind like an alkie in a back alley.

124309 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Awkward Git, #961 of 1659 🔗

Yep. Although the Money Shot is also the key shot in the most expensive set piece in a movie. Hence the money being all the stuff you have to spend to get it.

It also means the most valuable piece of information that drives all your profits in a business sense.

124297 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Bruno, 2, #962 of 1659 🔗

I always used to be sceptical when people kept on going on about Dominic Cummings being a dangerous individual. Sadly they were correct, they are reshaping the UK whilst everyone is distracted.

124107 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #963 of 1659 🔗


Caller: I have been behind the Government throughout the pandemic, but I will defy the Rule of Six

An angry caller has told talkRADIO that he will “defy the new laws” around social gatherings.

Simon in Buckingham called Mike Graham’s show saying he had been “very compliant” throughout

124144 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #964 of 1659 🔗

It took THIS to prompt defiance? I was defiant from the start! But better late than never I guess…

124253 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #965 of 1659 🔗

I have been behind the Government throughout the pandemic”

Response – ‘No you haven’t – you’ve been under their cosh.’

But that apart : all offerings gratefully received.

124112 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 6, #966 of 1659 🔗

Dudley North
Great Grimsby
Rother Valley
Bishop Auckland
Stoke-on-Trent North
Penistone & Stocksbridge
West Bromwich West
Don Valley
West Bromwich East
Clwyd South
Durham North West
Stoke-on-Trent Central
Blyth Valley
Heywood & Middleton

These are the Red Wall seats. It didn’t take that long to google the mp, send an email quoting Charles Walker, urging them to vote against the extension to extraordinary powers. As many on here that can do should do this?

124115 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Marie R, 2, #967 of 1659 🔗

I wrote to my MP yesterday!

124149 ▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to Margaret, 1, #968 of 1659 🔗

We should contact all these MP’s, not just our own

124164 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Marie R, 1, #969 of 1659 🔗

Trouble is unless you are one of their constituents they have no obligation to even read your correspondence – this is why when you write or e-mail an MP you must put your address on the missive, so they know you are a constituent of theirs.

124249 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #970 of 1659 🔗

It’s not ‘the trouble’ – it’s what MPs do : represent a particular constituency. They would rightly just pass on any letter or bin it if it didn’t come from a constituent.

124270 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to RickH, 1, #971 of 1659 🔗

I would advocate not putting an address on- it increases the chances of someone having to read to the end.

And not all of them refuse to reply- just had this from Desmond Swayne:

“As you should know, I agree. I said as much to the PM in the Commons yesterday -looking at him straight in the eye; I took a shot at the health Secretary and the Leader of the House this-morning. I just done an interview for Newsnight
I will continue to agitate”

124119 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Marie R, #972 of 1659 🔗

Mansfield as well

124146 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Marie R, 1, #973 of 1659 🔗

I vote in Dudley North and the lesser-spotted Marco Longhi is my MP. Sadly, he just goes along with whatever the government says. He’s been a huge step down from Ian Austin, who, if nothing else, actually seemed to have beliefs and principles. The majority of the constituency is actually blue rosette on a pig territory, and the only reason Labour lasted as long as they did was Ian Austin. Anyone else would’ve been sent packing quickly.

124241 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Andy C, #974 of 1659 🔗

Sorry – just fell off my chair laughing at the idea that Ian Austin had principles!

His only principle was Ian Austin.

124127 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 9, #975 of 1659 🔗

Is it safe to assume that the covid marshall goons/stasi/cannon fodder/ wankers/ will be employed by Serco?

124166 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, 3, #976 of 1659 🔗

I’d say highly likely..

124287 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to stefarm, 1, #977 of 1659 🔗

There is a very good chance. Many people just link Serco with refuse collection and other council jobs, however they are an international company with high access security clearance to the the most important areas of government. Governments and business use Serco extensively for Internet Scrubbing – sometimes you will find it is impossible to find old incriminating information as it has been wiped completely. They also run parts of the US air traffic control system. It’s about time people in the media started to question Serco’s roll in government.

124128 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 20, #978 of 1659 🔗

Visited my (original) hometown of Bridgnorth Shropshire this morning.
I saw this message written on the entrance wall of the Golden lion pub: It is better to live one day as a Golden lion than to live for a thousand years as a sheep (Nuff said)
Later I walked past a dentist and outside the entrance a sign said ” Please do not wait in the waiting room”
Talk about two extremes!!

124139 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #979 of 1659 🔗

What if someone were to stick one of those pictures of a flock of sheep wearing face masks next to that sign on the pub wall? That would be awful….

124142 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Mark, 2, #980 of 1659 🔗

No it would be brilliant.

124280 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #981 of 1659 🔗

Gentlemen, you cannot wait in here, this is the waiting room

124137 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #982 of 1659 🔗

On you tube he was getting 100,000 views – on this he gets 500

124181 ▶▶ James, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #983 of 1659 🔗

BNT launched this year!

This is his official channel video (your link was someone elses):

With about 9,000 views.
9,000 more than he’d get on YouTube which would censor the whole video

124766 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to James, #984 of 1659 🔗

10,900 now.

124138 guy153, replying to guy153, 3, #985 of 1659 🔗

Dr Craig’s article is very interesting, but I was surprised by the claim that PCR false positives can be caused by other viruses as I do not believe this is possible.

She linked to this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095096/

Which does not support that claim, but is very interesting nevertheless.

The paper describes an outbreak of “common cold” coronavirus OC43 in a care home that they were worried was SARS1. Antibody tests appeared to confirm SARS1. Antibody tests certainly can result in false positives from infections with related coronaviruses.

They also did PCR testing and found some false positives from one lab but not from the other. But these were not because of the OC43 RNA– “ With respect to the nucleic acid-based tests used by the NML in these investigations, false-positive results driven by intrinsic test performance or amplicon contamination remain most likely. The reference laboratory had processed hundreds of specimens during the preceding SARS outbreak ” was their conclusion.

The outbreak had an attack rate of 67% and a CFR of 8% in a vulnerable care home population, even though it was “only” OC43. Pretty similar to COVID-19.

124177 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to guy153, 2, #986 of 1659 🔗

The FDA stated:

Positive results do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. The agent detected may not be the definite cause of disease.


Seems to back up the argument to some extent?

124267 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sarigan, 1, #987 of 1659 🔗

No, that’s not what they mean. They just mean that if you have a SARS2 infection don’t assume you don’t also have a “superinfection” or a “co-infection” with some other pathogen. Not that that other pathogen would cause the positive result, although of course it might be causing the disease.

124186 ▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 5, #988 of 1659 🔗

I think the over-riding point is that the PRC test isn’t fit for diagnostic purposes.

124219 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RickH, 2, #989 of 1659 🔗

Technically speaking it is a diagnostic test in the presence of symptoms to confirm infection of an individual. What it isn’t is a screening tool when doing this kind of mass surveillance testing.

124233 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #990 of 1659 🔗

The deviser (forget the name) explicitly warned against ift being used as a diagnostic tool. It was never meant for that purpose – and we can see why.

124279 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 1, #991 of 1659 🔗

That was in the context of a debate about whether HIV caused AIDS that isn’t relevant here.

HIV does cause AIDS, but even then, it’s much more indirect than the way SARS2 causes COVID-19. HIV destroys your immune system and then your actual symptoms and death result from other infections and cancers and things.

124274 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #992 of 1659 🔗

Yes, exactly. And in the presence of symptoms the likelihood of a false positive becomes much lower, just because the prior probability that you have SARS2 if you have symptoms is so much higher.

But as the FDA says the doctor shouldn’t assume that the SARS2 infection is definitely causing the disease– but this is true with most pathogens and tests. The doctor has to look at the whole picture.

124275 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 1, #993 of 1659 🔗

The PRC test for the CCP virus 🙂

124296 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 1, #994 of 1659 🔗

Yes – fingers getting ahead of themselves 🙂

124140 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 9, #995 of 1659 🔗

I emailed my local MP’s researcher and directed him to this website. His dismal reply was that the fact that Toby Young was running it told him all he needed to know and he sent me grabs of TY’s Twitter feed of 12 years ago in which he appeared to be being rather abusive. I don’t know how accurate those grabs were, but I replied that the PM’s past writings hardly stand up to scrutiny either.

Such a shame that the researcher and associated MP were not willing to engage on the actual issue but instead looked to undermine the credibility of the evidence itself.

We have a very long road ahead of us, folks.

124150 ▶▶ Julian, replying to jhfreedom, 7, #996 of 1659 🔗

What fuckwits

The nation is in the biggest (self-made) mess it has ever been and they ignore information on the basis of irrelevant political point-scoring

124168 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Julian, 3, #997 of 1659 🔗

I had a half-serious conversation with my wife about moving to Texas or Sweden…

124171 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #998 of 1659 🔗

haha who would have thought those two places would appear in the same sentence!!

124281 ▶▶▶▶ Marie R, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #999 of 1659 🔗

I’ve instructed the Estate Agent this morning

124350 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Marie R, 1, #1000 of 1659 🔗

And there’s another circle of hell to enter into – good luck!

124487 ▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Marie R, #1001 of 1659 🔗

Are you serious

124525 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Marie R, #1002 of 1659 🔗

I’m getting the materials together to renew my US passport that expired while the London Embassy was closed. It’s a desperate thought to consider going back to the States. I hate living there but almost everything I love about the UK seems to be gone. I wish I thought I could survive in a non-English speaking country.

124157 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #1003 of 1659 🔗

Play the ball not the man

This issue couldnt be more bi partisan as they say.

Socialist parties here in NI are pushing the whole line that anyone anti is Far Right as well.

Seems this is going to a new level

124169 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #1004 of 1659 🔗

I’d suggest pointing them in Carl Heneghans direction instead but I doubt they’d understand it.

124182 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 3, #1005 of 1659 🔗

.. and Ivor Cummins : https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac

About the best summary data up to this point.

124196 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Achilles, #1006 of 1659 🔗

Done. I doubt it too.

I am in a frenzy! Anyone else get the red banner saying “You are posting comments too quickly! Slow down!” ??

124176 ▶▶ annie, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1007 of 1659 🔗

A long road? All the more reason to keep going.

124194 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to annie, 1, #1008 of 1659 🔗

Yes, Annie. Per the proverb the longest journey starts with a single step. I hear you.

124185 ▶▶ mjr, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1009 of 1659 🔗

would it be a fair guess that your MP is labour ? MP’s researchers are always young and very keen … and for labour MP likely to be radical…. TY is already a hate figure of the left – and to come back with grabs of a 12 year old twitter feed indicates an element of “here’s one i made earlier)”

124192 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to mjr, 3, #1010 of 1659 🔗

Nope, Surrey heartlands Tory. I think it reflects the bunker mentality rather than political leanings. His dismal Toby Young Twitter point was almost like a stock answer he had prepared. So I sent him an alternative source – Achilles’ suggestion of Carl Heneghan below – and asked him to engage with the actual issues.

124277 ▶▶ hat man, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1011 of 1659 🔗

We have to give these people no easy excuses to ignore the facts. I refer them to sources that can’t be derided or seen as biased. Try these two sites, where the graphs make an immediate impact:

124528 ▶▶ Edward, replying to jhfreedom, #1012 of 1659 🔗

Great riposte about the PM’s past writings!

124151 PaulWW, replying to PaulWW, 4, #1013 of 1659 🔗

Liberty, the prominent Human Rights campaigners, have a petition to abolish the Coronavirus Act (the legislation permitting Boris to issue dictats like last night’s) – would love us to spread the word. Link is here: https://liberty.e-activist.com/page/63681/petition/1?ea.tracking.id=Website

124221 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to PaulWW, 3, #1014 of 1659 🔗

Signed. But as Toby said what took them so long?

124225 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to kh1485, 2, #1015 of 1659 🔗

Probably like many they trusted the government and saw light at the end of the tunnel.

124251 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to hotrod, 1, #1016 of 1659 🔗

What did Reagan say the most dangerous words in the English language were…

124226 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to kh1485, 2, #1017 of 1659 🔗

Better late than never. It is like boiling frogs, they don’t know the dangers until the process is well advanced! Hope not too late.

124155 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 17, #1018 of 1659 🔗

I sense so much more anger out there now. Many more dissenting voices. Have they finally overstepped the mark?

124175 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 11, #1019 of 1659 🔗

Hope so, keep pushing, the who,e rotten edifice has to collapse some time.

124213 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, 11, #1020 of 1659 🔗

Yes, back in March I was a member of an ignored or derided fringe, on this. Now I feel I’m part of a small but vociferous and growing dissenting minority.

First they laugh at you, then they fight you, etc.

124245 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, 4, #1021 of 1659 🔗

We’ll be listed a heroes of the revolution soon

124283 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1022 of 1659 🔗

Noooo, we don’t want that. Heroes of revolutions usually end up in front of a firing squad or under a guillotine.

124443 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1023 of 1659 🔗

Why not? You want to line forever with this bullshit?

Or Die with your boots on?

I know my choice and the wife is starting to feel the same.

Maybe it’s just me or just being a biker drilling and that causes it.


124187 Charlie Blue, 4, #1024 of 1659 🔗


Ignore the reference to Sturgeon. The headline starts “Boris faces Tory revolt over sweeping new ‘rule of six’ restrictions. This may or may not be hyperbole, but I’m sure those MPs reading headlines to find out what they should think might find some inspiration…

124191 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 8, #1025 of 1659 🔗

Useful testing stat.

In Wales yesterday 99% of those tested yesterday were negative.

124195 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to hotrod, 10, #1026 of 1659 🔗

And no mask mandate. The coincidences are many regarding masks and the infection rate.

124222 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to hotrod, 2, #1027 of 1659 🔗

In NI we’ve had 98/97% since testing hit capacity. What does it say about the ridiculous waste of resources being thrown at this?

124248 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1028 of 1659 🔗

I will tell you. This is all about management consultants advising companies how to jump on the band wagon of public spending by ‘shaping the new normal’. Boston Consulting clearly one of the front runner firms here. They’re a piece of work:

One of their ‘Strategy Fellows’ (cod academic sounding BCG Henderson ‘Institute’) has a book about it, entitled (this is priceless): ‘Your Strategy Needs A Strategy’…

124268 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1029 of 1659 🔗

Speaking of wasting resources, I have two sets of friends who just get tested unnecessarily when it suits them. One friend was staying with her sister and BIL at an AirBnB and so all 4 got tested a few days before, and another friend hunts with a group of guys for a few days and they’ll all be getting tested before hunt camp. It’s the new thing here — whenever small groups want to get together overnight or for a few days, they all get tested beforehand. These are the same people who will bitch and moan when our taxes go up. Go figure.

124223 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hotrod, 3, #1030 of 1659 🔗

And the main symptom of Covid remains the same: most who have it are never even aware they’re ill.

124204 Will, replying to Will, 7, #1031 of 1659 🔗

The worm is turning ladies and gents, the worm is turning!!!!

124208 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Will, 5, #1032 of 1659 🔗


124250 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #1033 of 1659 🔗

I took my friend out for afternoon tea yesterday as it was her birthday. We haven’t met up in person since Christmas. After a lovely afternoon, she hugged me, which greatly surprised me as she has never been the least bit sceptical about the numbers, the tests or the MSM and has followed the rules without question.
She did ask me about my badge as she had an elderly friend who couldn’t wear a mask and who had been humiliated by a staff member in M and S. My friend is going to print out a card from the government website which she will give to the elderly lady, so I suppose that is progress.
We tended to keep off the subject of Covid for the most part as she knows that I have very strong opinions on the matter, backed up by a lot of evidence. I asked her at the end of the afternoon what her husband thought about the events of the last few months. She said that they didn’t really discuss it. It hasn’t really affected their lives very much as they have a lovely house with stunning views and do most of their shopping on line. It meant that they couldn’t see their grandchildren as much but they all live some distance away anyway.
Therein lies the problem. She is an intelligent person but has done no independent research or fact checking and life has gone on very much as normal for her. There are millions just like her. How do we “turn” these people?

124262 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Margaret, 8, #1034 of 1659 🔗

Wealth tax to pay for the response will wake them up. And that’s coming let me tell you…

124301 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Margaret, 4, #1035 of 1659 🔗

Sadly you have hit the nail on the head

It hasn’t really affected their lives very much as they have a lovely house with stunning views and do most of their shopping on line

124338 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Margaret, 5, #1036 of 1659 🔗

Use emotion. I’ve said it before. If you support the governments measures and think people should wear masks to protect others, you also support people dying alone and scared in care homes and hospitals, not being able to see their loved ones or have the compassion and dignity shown to them in death.

And for a while you couldn’t even give them dignity and respect putting them in the ground.

There is a very real cost that just needs hightlighting.

Kids too.

So you could say, maybe they were calling out “Son, is that you?” but he never came.

Or “Daddy, daddy! Where’s my daddy?” but Daddy wasn’t allowed to be there.

This is the kind of thing.

124739 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, #1037 of 1659 🔗

Very good, mhcp. It’s impossible to seriously defend such blatant inhumanity.

124211 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 3, #1038 of 1659 🔗

Hope you are right, but what specifically makes you think so?

124212 ▶▶ PaulWW, replying to Will, 3, #1039 of 1659 🔗

It absolutely is – further to my post below, this was sent to me by the Law Society: Liberty Human Rights Group’s petition: https://liberty.e-activist.com/page/63681/petition/1?ea.tracking.id=Website

124230 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Will, 2, #1040 of 1659 🔗

Really? What makes you think that?

124260 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to DRW, 7, #1041 of 1659 🔗

The ludicrous change of narrative around Ferguson and Sweden is the surest sign yet that the lockdown zealots know they have backed the wrong horse. The silent majority have had enough of this nonsense and the more Piers Moron stamps his feet the clearer they can see that the emperor is disrobed….

124276 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will, 4, #1042 of 1659 🔗

It started turning a couple of months ago, and it’s picked up a bit of pace after last night.

124216 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 2, #1043 of 1659 🔗


There’s no escape: The Holyrood Gauleiter has extended the misery .

Society cannot survive this.

124220 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 4, #1044 of 1659 🔗

How’s the reaction up there? Next protest at Edinburgh might be interesting :o))

124224 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nick Rose, 15, #1045 of 1659 🔗

If people put up with this shit we are doomed.

Customers in hospitality businesses will also be expected to wear face coverings when entering pubs and restaurants before taking their seats.

The woman is a lunatic.

124229 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to stefarm, 5, #1046 of 1659 🔗

Boris to follow that one today or tomorrow?

124234 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1047 of 1659 🔗

It’s coming, probably 23:59 Sunday night

124237 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to stefarm, 3, #1048 of 1659 🔗

It’ll be definitely on an evening, when most are too tired and sleepy to react properly.

124235 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to stefarm, 4, #1049 of 1659 🔗

Oh fuck no…coming soon to England, given Bozo’s record.

124255 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to stefarm, 5, #1050 of 1659 🔗

Where I am we have to wear masks to enter the restaurant and until you sit down at the table, for going to and from the washroom, and back out again. It’s insanity and I refuse to do it. Outdoors only for me and no using the indoor washroom. I’ve only eaten out once and only outdoors since this madness started, and with the cold weather coming I can’t see going to a restaurant at all. The sheeple here seem to think it’s an OK tradeoff. I guess time will tell whether restaurants can survive this, particularly since I anticipate another shutdown. It’s utter madness.

124258 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stefarm, 1, #1051 of 1659 🔗

She is.

124227 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #1052 of 1659 🔗

Most people ‘listen to Nicola’, so I’m in a minority.

There seems to be a state of almost suspended animation, as the unquestioning acceptance of ever more restrictions and edicts spreads.

It’s surreal and very very depressing.

124231 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendyk, 9, #1053 of 1659 🔗

TBF my neighbour told me about this at lunchtime, he tells me his mental health can’t take anymore and is on the verge of either murder or madness

124232 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 7, #1054 of 1659 🔗

Tell him to go for murder.
Suggest suitable targets.

124259 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to annie, 6, #1055 of 1659 🔗

Hahaha if you’re going to go down then at least take some of the C-phobes with you!

124442 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James, replying to annie, #1056 of 1659 🔗

I love you Annie. You are a star.

124238 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stefarm, 8, #1057 of 1659 🔗

This is how I feel; I’ve lost the little hope I once had.

Most days just seem utterly pointless as the futility, stupidity and steady encroachment of DIY- style edicts and impositions take hold.

124240 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stefarm, 6, #1058 of 1659 🔗

he’s not alone. 2 in this house ready to kick off soon.

124246 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1059 of 1659 🔗

Moi aussi.

124519 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to stefarm, #1060 of 1659 🔗

Here’s a bit of fantasising. If you had a loaded rifle, with Johnson or Hancock in the sights, and an assurance of no consequences for yourself, would you pull the trigger? I probably wouldn’t, as I don’t think I have it in me to kill someone. But I have the fantasy, and others must too, some of whom would pull the trigger. And some who would no longer care about the consequences.

124556 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Edward, #1061 of 1659 🔗

Yes I would.

124242 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 2, #1062 of 1659 🔗

If – and it’s a big if I know – the anger down here continues and swells, will that help?

124252 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1063 of 1659 🔗

I’d like to think so, but the SNP cult has such a hold here now.

124269 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 1, #1064 of 1659 🔗

If she keeps on pushing the way she has been, that might suddenly change.

124278 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1065 of 1659 🔗

I’m not so sure; the public sector provides much of the employment here, the opposition at Holyrood is weak and the Nicola cult is securely embedded.

124272 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JYC, replying to wendyk, 1, #1066 of 1659 🔗

And anything that looks like it is building on what’s coming out of England will simply be labelled as anti-Scottish. That’s the SNP’s standard defence.

124244 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to wendyk, 1, #1067 of 1659 🔗

Weren’t she and the Swine pressured into opening in-person schools though?
Just playing the optimist here.

124263 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to DRW, 1, #1068 of 1659 🔗

Indeed, but she’s tightened the rules again and a couple of schools in my area have now been affected:


124316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to wendyk, #1069 of 1659 🔗

Just proves she’s not completely immune to public pressure if there actually is some though.

124300 ▶▶▶▶ Evelyn, replying to wendyk, 5, #1070 of 1659 🔗

I find it very sad and depressing too. I can’t understand why people can’t see they are being lied to. On three recent shopping trips I only saw one other person, apart from myself, who didn’t have a mask on.

124311 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Evelyn, 1, #1071 of 1659 🔗

I’m the only one now at our local supermarket.

124317 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to wendyk, 4, #1072 of 1659 🔗

Maybe us un-masked ones are generally staying away?

124324 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Fiat, 1, #1073 of 1659 🔗

Yes, I’ve reduced my visits but as I don’t drive, I still have to go there.

I’ve done a couple of home deliveries but they’re rather pricey and some of the stuff I received was not that good.

Fortunately small independent shops-zero waste and green grocer’s -are easy going and don’t make any fuss although I always wear my badge now,as hostility seems to be growing

124327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 1, #1074 of 1659 🔗

I was the only one in Aldi (bar the checkout staff) who was maskless last week. I didn’t get any hassle. In fact, other shoppers avoided eye contact – very surreal and disturbing.

124340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 4, #1075 of 1659 🔗

This is my experience as well; I used to look at other customers and smile but now I look away.

No one makes eye contact ,apart from till staff, who are their usual pleasant selves-and not all gagged, as you say.

The staff are pleasant and don’t enforce mask nonsense but there’s an almost funereal air about the place.

124353 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 2, #1076 of 1659 🔗

That’s exactly it – funereal. The staff in ours aren’t all that friendly, they used to be. Perhaps they view my masklessness as a risk to them!

124397 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 2, #1077 of 1659 🔗

The young masked evening staff in a Co-op I go to don’t seem to like me being maskless,they are quite unfriendly,one girl particularly so.The older staff in another Co-op are very pleasant though and seem to like talking to someone without a muzzle.
The muzzled customers seem to pretend I am not there and carefully avoid eye contact with me,suits me just fine I ignore them aswell.

124501 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to wendyk, #1078 of 1659 🔗

A tiny glimmer of opposition from the media? https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1303715751669510147
(not to the lockdown, but one step at a time)

124266 ▶▶▶ JYC, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #1079 of 1659 🔗

Sadly, Scotland has rolled over and gone belly-up. There is no fight or backbone here any more, just unthinking obedience.

124247 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to wendyk, 8, #1080 of 1659 🔗

It will end up with compulsory masks when you leave the house, no doubt. If you follow a policy of safetyism one-upmanship without any recourse to the facts or science that’s the only inevitable conclusion.

124256 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Achilles, 3, #1081 of 1659 🔗

Yes, a sliding descent into Madness. It must be stopped.

124428 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to jhfreedom, #1082 of 1659 🔗

one step beyond…..!

124264 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Achilles, 5, #1083 of 1659 🔗

This is what I dread. I cannot make any headway in discussions, try as I might.

124236 NickR, replying to NickR, 11, #1084 of 1659 🔗

50% of care homes had at least one covid death which probably means that a high proportion of all the residents (over 200,000 in those covid infected homes) had some exposure to the virus, most no doubt asymptomatic. Residents live on average 20 months in care homes before they die.
330 of these people will die on average every day! Some of these would test positive for covid but they just died of old age, it happens!
We really should be able to get a profile of who these fatalities are, where they caught the virus and what comorbidities they had.

124271 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 9, #1085 of 1659 🔗

The registration of deaths has been so much rubbished that we will never know what the cause of death was – but it’s a fair estimate that, in fact, a low proportion were primarily caused by Covid.

What has gained more profile recently is one obvious fact – that because of the ‘weak’ infective season of 2018/19, there was a much larger vulnerable population in 2019/20 which significantly exaggerated the mortality figures.

124284 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to RickH, 2, #1086 of 1659 🔗

Yes, Ivor Cummins shows this in his video posted below. He talks of it being “dry tinder” and his graphs taken from Euromomo show that those countries in Europe who had below average deaths in the winters of 2018 and 2019 had the highest Covid peaks. Other countries like Denmark and Germany had normal death rates during those winters so haven’t seen as great a peak.

124306 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, #1087 of 1659 🔗

It stood out a mile when I did my own analysis of mortality over time.

It prompted me to look at the hypothesis that deaths over two years show a balance (given that the balancing may be over longer periods). The hypothesis stacks up when you look at bi-annual deaths.

124328 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to RickH, 2, #1088 of 1659 🔗

So last night I started wondering about all-cause mortality and was stunned to find this chart on the Statistics Canada web site. It clearly shows deaths by month from January to June over the last 5 years in my province. Not only was our “spike” nothing unusual, there was a steep drop in deaths afterwards. I’m flummoxed as to why this is not news and no journalist has taken the 20 seconds to search this very public document. The authorities can fudge Covid deaths but they can’t fudge all-cause mortality numbers, and it’s quite clear there was nothing unusual about 2020 except the precipitous drop in deaths! Had Covid not been reported and splashed all over the media 24/7, this year would have been no different from any other. Makes my blood boil.


124364 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1089 of 1659 🔗

Thank you Lisa, that’s a cracker! What was the date Ontario started lockdown?

124476 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Bruno, #1090 of 1659 🔗

We returned from Spain on March 13th and that was the last day of school. Over the next week or so pretty much everything shut down. We had the same issue as NYC and Sweden with our care home deaths, so had we protected our elderly our numbers would have been far lower. Around 80% of all our deaths in Canada were from LTC facilities.

124285 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 23, #1091 of 1659 🔗

A big contender for the “How PATHETIC can you get?” award.
Just read about a pub that’s considering banning under 25’s because it’s their fault that the CV virus is spreading.
From a 71 year old.

124289 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1092 of 1659 🔗

Who does that landlord think they’ve caught it from?

124291 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1093 of 1659 🔗

Surely grounds for someone to sue them for age discrimination! And I sincerely hope someone does.

124293 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1094 of 1659 🔗

Age discrimination? Not sure that’s lawful- so also idiotic

124346 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Telpin, #1095 of 1659 🔗

There’s probably some Statutory Instrument that nobody voted for that makes it required.

124295 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1096 of 1659 🔗

Sounds like a good candidate for a boycott. You should name and shame them here, and anywhere else you can. The under 25s, and many over 25s, are already harassed by pubs for unnecessary identification, but this is just laughable.

124299 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1097 of 1659 🔗

Age discrimination innit

124305 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tenchy, #1098 of 1659 🔗

Look in the Metro paper’s website
Said pub is in Yorkshire.

124308 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tenchy, 3, #1099 of 1659 🔗

Also if they carry it out to the letter, they would probably have to sack 90% of their staff.

124318 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1100 of 1659 🔗

I wish I was still harassed by pubs for age-proving ID. Sadly, they stopped asking fifty years ago and I’m only fifty-four.

124359 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1101 of 1659 🔗

Yes, they deserve to go out of business.

124356 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1102 of 1659 🔗

Name and shame please.

What a rotten deal for our young people. Huge debt if they go to University (and no guarantee of a decent job after), remembering that degrees are now frequently required for quite basic jobs.

Very little chance of owning their own homes.

Bloody Covid restrictions on their social and romantic lives.

And now, blamed for killing granny.

124290 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 5, #1103 of 1659 🔗

Apparently it’s World Suicide Prevention Day today…….

124307 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Fiat, 7, #1104 of 1659 🔗

Well that’s quite apt because I found out an hour ago a young man I know made a bloody good go at killing himself last week, had no help and precious little human contact in months.

124322 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Liam, #1105 of 1659 🔗

Poor poor soul; has anyone managed to help him since?

124335 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to wendyk, 1, #1106 of 1659 🔗

Don’t know details but he’s still in hospital. Poor lad was getting himself back together quite well when I saw him around New Year.

124343 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Liam, #1107 of 1659 🔗

Poor guy.

124341 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Fiat, #1108 of 1659 🔗

If this wasn’t so tragic it would be laughable. Oh, the irony.

124509 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fiat, #1109 of 1659 🔗

If it wasn’t so tragic, it would be laughable. With the current discussions around daily testing and digital passport, I’m revising my person suicide metric. Either that or escape the UK. But where to go? No place seems sane now.

124292 JamesDrebin, replying to JamesDrebin, 39, #1110 of 1659 🔗

Welp, my employer has just wet its knickers and mandated face masks in all situations from tomorrow. We’re a mixture of offices and warehouse, in the charity sector. I’m in the offices, but it’s all the same mess.

This is all in response to the casedemic – the reasoning being that our county had an exceptionally low instance of cases and deaths during the peak, and so it’s now the highest risk powder-keg of death known to man. “Cases” are SURGING, man! SURGING!

The guy who pushed for this is someone who worships “TheScience” and, as much as I like him, I have to acknowledge he is a terminal left wing pessimist. Although he’s not like the ignorant masses who worship sceintism as a fashionable virtue-signal (“Scientistas”, as I call them); he is actually articulate and educated.

It’s just that he reads the on-message science journals and swallows their toxic emissions like they’re delicious gospel oysters. As a worshipper of the new corrupted mainstream narrativist science, I’d term him more of a “Scientacolyte”. His wife is also in education and is gravely concerned about the 3 or so kids in the area who have tested positive, so chances of Guardian readership are beyond 250%.

I don’t despise him though (I’ve always got on well with him and intend to continue doing so), but just when things should be coming right, this happens.

It’s left me feeling utterly defeated and annoyed. It doesn’t matter how obvious the facts are, it doesn’t matter how much evidence gets hinted at in furtive news articles – the correct interpretation bounces off the fear machine like the Teflon-coated muck spreader it is.

“I’m so done right now, I can’t even”. As the kids say.

NB: Please accept my meme (attached) in order to offset any rant emissions created by this post.

124332 ▶▶ Julian, replying to JamesDrebin, 4, #1111 of 1659 🔗

That’s a cracker

124347 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to JamesDrebin, 7, #1112 of 1659 🔗

I feel your pain. I’m returning to work soon and I have to obey all sorts of insane rules just to enter the building. It is very disheartening to realise just how many people really have no clue as to just what is going on.

124351 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to JamesDrebin, 4, #1113 of 1659 🔗

That’s meme of the week!

124367 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to JamesDrebin, 3, #1114 of 1659 🔗

Outstanding meme! The next challenge / competition on this board is to replace the sound track on the current pathetic NHS TV advert which came out yesterday. (Nearly made me throw the television set out the window – you have been warned!)

124375 ▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to JamesDrebin, 16, #1115 of 1659 🔗

Thanks so much for the support guys. Means a lot. Please accept this other meme I knocked up as payment for your kindness. <3

125902 ▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to JamesDrebin, 1, #1116 of 1659 🔗

I am so sorry. This just makes me want to cry. Could you get him to watch Ivor Cummins’s latest 30 minute blockbuster? It might just get get through to him.

Great meme btw

124303 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1117 of 1659 🔗



“However, the £30,000 figure per QALY is the figure used in resource decisions within the UK health system. It is not an arbitrary number. It is not based on likely future earnings lost or the value of future consumption – calculations that are open to the moral objection that they reduce the value of human life to how much people would have spent on commodities. Instead the figure we use for the value of a QALY is a measure of what is considered the highest level of resources (i.e. what part of GDP) in the UK health system that should be used to generate extra quality adjusted years of life – and it is saving of lives which is what the lockdown was for.” “On that basis it would seem as though the benefits of the three-month lockdown were likely to have been lower – perhaps far lower – than its costs. Yet even if one used a valuation of a QALY three times as great, the figures in tables 2 and 3 (with benefits raised by a factor of 3) would still generate costs of the lockdown in excess of benefits in nearly all the cases considered”
 This is very mild language. Just have a look at Table 2 and 3.Even in Fergusson’s 500 000 deaths scenario lockdown is not cost effective. Why are C-19 lives valued more than cancer,and any other disease in the NHS? This is now a published article(previous preprint) with the most comprehensive calculation that lockdowns is too costly. The public must be informed in an easy way about the cost. How about the estimated cost -20%GDP is the same as all NHS expenditure in 2 years for the first lockdown?

124323 ▶▶ NickR, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1118 of 1659 🔗

Pre the covid nonsense NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence) would approve expenditure of up to about £30,000 to prolong a life for a year. If you had a kid with cancer you could get £30,000 worth of drugs, as an example. This was a figure widely known, discussed by medical ethicists etc. We’re now spending over £10m per year per life prolonged & these lives aren’t kids with cancer they’re 85 years olds in care homes with comorbidities that are killing them.
Let’s be generous & assume an 80 year old covid patient lost 5 years of life. That would be £30,000 x 5 = £150,000 we might spend to extend their life. If we multiply Neil Fergusson’s 480,000 deaths by £150,000 we get £72bn. So pre lockdown the most society would spend to prolong these lives would be £72bn, accepting Fergusson’s mad figures & the maximum NICE payout & an extended life span of 5 years. But we’ve spent £350bn almost 5x the most conceivable amount we should have spent on the most generous assumptions. This from a conservative government.

124331 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to NickR, 6, #1119 of 1659 🔗

I think the problem is that there are a lot of idiotic people in this world who have never considered that, given resources are not infinite, someone has always made these decisions. I recently pointed this out to a supposedly intelligent person of my acquaintance and was told that this was the sort of consideration Hitler would have made. I managed to remain calm and point out that doing this is a good sign you’ve lost the argument.

124505 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Julian, #1120 of 1659 🔗

And yet it’s well known in lots of academic communities. In my previous life as an economist, we often talked about using cost benefit analysis when valuing public policy, and explicitly placed values on human life. Within our current economic system, I’m not sure how else you can deal with the problem of scarce resources. Obviously, what’s happening now is not a viable alternative.

124334 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to NickR, 1, #1121 of 1659 🔗

This paper and the LSE’s Centre for Economic Performance Occasional Paper 49, back in March, have much more fully argued figures for all of this. Read them and weep.

124326 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1122 of 1659 🔗

Thank you (yet again!) Swedenborg for this. Have been wondering whether anyone would try an update of LSE’s CEP Occasional Paper 49 (which they reference), which calculated that costs in WELLBY’s (not exactly QALYs) exceeded benefits by 1 Jun. And that was on the information available mid March, and assumed (IIRC) that Ferguson’s 125K deaths was possible. This Imperial/Manchester paper suggests it wasn’t worth it by end June, a bit timorous for me.

124456 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Bruno, 1, #1123 of 1659 🔗

This is a paper done by Imperial academics. Not Fergusson’s crew! It provides a useful table that shows costs, assuming different QALY v GDP% loss. It’s quite an interesting read though I’d argue that the real cost/benefit should look at the delta between our heavy lockdown & a lighter Sweden style lockdown (about 50% of the economic shock) & an estimate of Lockdown saved lives, hardly any. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/national-institute-economic-review/article/living-with-covid19-balancing-costs-against-benefits-in-the-face-of-the-virus/C1D46F6A3118D0360CDAB7A08E94ED22

124787 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to NickR, 1, #1124 of 1659 🔗

And what value would one place on lost liberty?

124969 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to NickR, #1125 of 1659 🔗

??? The exact same paper as the one I thanked swedenborg for in the first place!

124304 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 7, #1126 of 1659 🔗

This week on London Calling Toby Young said that the brass at the NHS would not be capable of deciding who should make the coffee, therefore any conspiracy theory flies out the window. The NHS brass don’t have to make the decisions, they receive orders then implement them. Hassle-free decision making.

124310 ▶▶ RickH, replying to richard riewer, 10, #1127 of 1659 🔗

The management of NHS England is highly politicized. I think Toby Young is naive over this.

124357 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 10, #1128 of 1659 🔗

Yes, it is. In all the trusts, you don’t have to look very far before you find Common Purpose. When my mother was in hospital, I looked at the CVs of those on the advisory and executive boards of her local trust – they certainly didn’t get there on talent, experience and competence.

124387 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1129 of 1659 🔗

Common purpose is everywhere..

124720 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #1130 of 1659 🔗
124313 spelldispel, 21, #1131 of 1659 🔗

I am absolutely raging. Just picked my son up from school, half of the parents were masked up stood out in the fresh air waiting to pick their kids up… must keep the fear and virtue signaling up (saw some of them in the park afterwards un-maksed stood right next to each other so just masked to make themselves look good in the playground). After yesterdays announcement I thought that people would start to see this massive charade for what it is and would stop complying…beyond pathetic.

124315 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 21, #1132 of 1659 🔗

I used mattghg’s template MP letter (thanks mattghg) to write to my own – Andrew Mitchell Sutton Coldfield – this morning.

I lobbied him frequently and successfully during the Blari/Brown period over ID cards so I think he’s always been a bit more libertarian than most of his fellows.

His response below – which came back within 3 hours.


Thank you for your email about the Coronavirus Act.

I certainly appreciate the points that you have outlined below.

I will be considering the issues around the legislation in some detail. Later this afternoon I am due to speak to Big Brother Watch about some of their concerns.

Kind regards


Rt Hon Andrew Mitchell MP

This came as a bit of a surprise. By all accounts Hancock had a rocky ride today from his own side in the HOC today and the Tory supporting press (Times excepted) are seemingly going full-on sceptic.

I am beginning to think they’ve overreached on the Rule of 6 and moonshot testing. I suggest others follow my lead and get lobbying.

124325 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to LGDTLK, 9, #1133 of 1659 🔗

Yes, seems it was the Covid Marshals bit that did it for a lot of people – they are just ridiculing Bojo for that. Maybe sanity will prevail.

124337 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to zacaway, 4, #1134 of 1659 🔗
124386 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ozzie, #1135 of 1659 🔗

Annoyingly you cannot now even access the comments on the DT site without an account..

124389 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Carrie, 2, #1136 of 1659 🔗

Yes, I noticed that. It’s a shame because they have become quite scathing and witty of late.

124500 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Carrie, #1137 of 1659 🔗

I usually can – unless it’s just happened in the last few hours?

124532 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Edward, #1138 of 1659 🔗

I only noticed it today.

124363 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to zacaway, 2, #1139 of 1659 🔗

Actually – it was the comments on continual testing that were the most idiotic – although it’s a close contest.

124320 Jane in France, replying to Jane in France, 25, #1140 of 1659 🔗

The National, the pro-independence Scottish newspaper, reads sometimes like a Nicola Sturgeon fanzine. Once I counted no fewer than seven photographs of the dear leader, sometimes in a tartan mask, on the front page. But it isn’t the case as someone here once said that The National has about seven readers. In fact it has more than eleven thousand online subscribers (including my husband). So instead of venting my feelings on Lockdown Sceptics, I thought I would do more good by commenting on covid19 articles in The National. There are plenty of them, all written by people who genuinely seem to believe that covid19 is a deadly plague and people who go to the pub are selfish granny-slayers. I am very polite and matter of fact. I quote statistics from the National Records of Scotland. So far none of my comments has been moderated. One even received nine upticks! I would suggest that instead of writing to their totally useless MP, people should try to spread the word among the unconverted by quoting statistics and the words of unheard scientists under covid19 articles in local newspapers where comments are still allowed.

124339 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Jane in France, 1, #1141 of 1659 🔗

Yes it may not seem like much but writing a comment with a couple of incontrovertible facts and a link to this site on any Covid comments section you can find in the media is worth doing. I assume the BBC will do their best to moderate them out but still worth a try even on theirs.

124329 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 18, #1142 of 1659 🔗

Just seen this comment on an article in the DT. Made me laugh.

“I am starting to believe Boris and the Cabinet passed away after catching Covid and has been replaced by a Hologram operated by Sturgeon.”

On second thoughts, this could be a viable theory?

124333 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Ozzie, 4, #1143 of 1659 🔗

As viable as any other theory

124349 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Ozzie, 5, #1144 of 1659 🔗

Sadly no. The Czarina Alexandra de Pfeffel of all the Russias, and courtiers, have been bewitched by a dishevelled monk like figure. Hopefully Revolution follows.

124366 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Ozzie, 6, #1145 of 1659 🔗

Lest we forget:

Mr Johnson referred to women who wore the veil as “bank robbers” and said they looked like “letter boxes.”

He said in the Telegraph column: “If you tell me that the burka is oppressive, then I am with you.

“If you say that it is weird and bullying to expect women to cover their faces, then I totally agree – and I would add that I can find no scriptural authority for the practice in the Koran.

“I would go further and say that is it absolutely ridiculous that people should choose to go around looking like letter boxes.”

Mr Johnson said he did not support a burka ban in the UK as this would give a boost to radicals who said there was a “clash of civilisations” between Islam and the West, and could lead to a “general crackdown on any pubic symbols of religious affiliation.”

But he felt “fully entitled” to expect women to remove face coverings when speaking to him at his MP surgery.

124330 Anthony Brady, replying to Anthony Brady, 4, #1146 of 1659 🔗

Why does not someone pin Matt Hancock down as to what the latest science thinks is the best estimate for the Infection Fatality Rate? The estimate has been coming down and down as more is known, but the Government is still acting as if it was the original 3.4% instead the real rate which is much, much, lower. Even yesterday Hancock was stating that the latest max 6 person measures would save ‘hundreds of thousands of lives’. This is more fear mongering and he should be asked how that statement is justified.

124413 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Anthony Brady, 2, #1147 of 1659 🔗

Why indeed

Lazy, evil journalists, opposition not interested in getting out of this mess

I doubt Hancock knows or cares what the IFR is

124495 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Anthony Brady, 1, #1148 of 1659 🔗

The best estimates now of the IFR are around 0.3%

124555 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to stewart, 4, #1149 of 1659 🔗

Based on serology. The real figure is probably about a third of that as serology greatly underestimates the number of infections.

124917 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stewart, #1150 of 1659 🔗

On the Jeremy Vine show with Dr Lee today they continued to claim the IFR was 0.1% for flu but 1% for CV-19 so 10 time as deadly

Truly astounding at this point

124709 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Anthony Brady, 3, #1151 of 1659 🔗

Why does not someone pin Matt Hancock down as to what the latest science thinks is the best estimate for the Infection Fatality Rate? while someone else jumps on his head?

124336 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1152 of 1659 🔗


Deaths per 100 000 all causes (incl C-19) week 1-week 33 2015-2020 Sweden
Can you spot the pandemic the worst since Spanish flu 1918?
Even more astounding. Pandemic should lead to excess deaths. In age group below 65 there has been no excess deaths compared to average 2015-2020.By definition there has been no pandemic of C-19 in Sweden below 65.


124358 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1153 of 1659 🔗

Just been working on updating aspects of the data since 1993 in England and Wales.

Confirms the unexceptional nature of 2020.

Current nonsenses have no justification whatsoever.

124398 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to RickH, #1154 of 1659 🔗

Ivor Cummins would agree with you. His latest update says the same thing for lots of countries. https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac

124342 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 21, #1155 of 1659 🔗

Mixed day. I am a sports coach. This morning I gave a 1-1 session with an 80-year-old man. He is fit as a fiddle, and not at all bothered about the virus. He looks after his body and eats well and moves like someone 20 years younger. Made me so happy to spend some time with him. It was all very normal and life enhancing. This afternoon, went to pick up child from school and there were more parents wearing masks. Nooooooo!!!!

124399 ▶▶ spelldispel, replying to Tommo, 3, #1156 of 1659 🔗

Same here, I left the school raging. They have no worries about catching anything from me anyway as I will be staying well clear from such morons.

124345 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1157 of 1659 🔗

 This study from Wuhan More cats might be COVID-19 positive than first believed, study suggests “Although the infection in stray cats could not be fully understood, it is reasonable to speculate that these infections are probably due to the contact with SARS-CoV-2 polluted environment, or COVID-19 patients who fed the cats.
“Therefore measures should be considered to maintain a suitable distance between COVID-19 patients and companion animals such as cats and dogs, and hygiene and quarantine measures should also be established for those high-risk animals.”

124384 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1158 of 1659 🔗

Reminds me of that Simpsons episode that begins with a committee deciding to release a deadly virus and saying it is transmitted by cats..

124393 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Carrie, 2, #1159 of 1659 🔗
124388 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1160 of 1659 🔗

According to my vet coronaviruses are extremely common in dogs and cats so most would test positive, but it would not necessarily be SARS2. There is even a coronavirus vaccine available for cats. Also – by extension – any vet tested who works with small animals will also test positive.

124395 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1161 of 1659 🔗

Something else to make people go mad with anxiety. The government, in its infinite wisdom, may say that people can no longer own cats. Cat lovers will be frantic that their beloved pets are under threat. Cat haters will be thrilled at the possibility of reducing the number of cats pooing in their gardens. Civil war will break out on yet another front. Divide and conquer.

124405 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #1162 of 1659 🔗

That’ll be Week 38’s Coronabollix.

124411 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to ConstantBees, 6, #1163 of 1659 🔗

First comes pet distancing then expect pet quarantine, pet masks, and a ban on pet gatherings >6 animals involved. Good luck to the pet police for enforcing all these…

124432 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, #1164 of 1659 🔗

And ultimately, mandatory pet vaccination…

124435 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to swedenborg, #1165 of 1659 🔗
124402 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1166 of 1659 🔗

No chance you’ll separate me from the dogs. If they have Covid I probably gave it to them anyway.

124493 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1167 of 1659 🔗

Yeah, good luck with that. Very unwise to try and distance the Brits from their pets.

124979 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Laura Suckling, #1168 of 1659 🔗

My cats have kept me sane during all this social distancing as they stay close beside me.

124355 snippet, replying to snippet, 4, #1169 of 1659 🔗

Am I alone in thinking that a family game of rounders in the park with some coloured bibs would be exempt from the rule of 6?

“organised indoor and outdoor sports, physical activity and exercise classes (see the list of recreational team sports, outdoor sport and exercise allowed under the gyms and leisure centre guidance)”

124362 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to snippet, 1, #1170 of 1659 🔗

Does this mean a rave would be exempt – as it includes dancing?!! Hope so ( not for me but for the young ins)

124401 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Telpin, 1, #1171 of 1659 🔗

Sounds like orgies would be exempt too.

124380 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to snippet, #1172 of 1659 🔗

I’ve spoken to a few other sport organisers, and it seems any sporting activity is pretty much exempt, so long as there is a risk assessment to ensure a covid safe environment (whatever nonsense that means!). So basically just go and have a fun game of rounders. If questioned all you are doing is organised sporting practice. No one will ever ask to see a risk assessment.

124396 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to snippet, 1, #1173 of 1659 🔗

Form your own Rambling group.

124360 Henry, 1, #1174 of 1659 🔗

Hi, does anyone have or know of any data sets which back calculate possible numbers of community infections preceding the initial peak of confirmed cases (as I understand hospital testing of those who needed treatment/died)?

124361 Kev, replying to Kev, 18, #1175 of 1659 🔗

There may be some hope:

Citizens Stop Spanish Police From Arresting Woman For Not Wearing Mask
“In Spain, police tried to arrest a woman for not wearing a mask. Dozens of people took off their masks and then helped the woman,” states the description accompanying the video.

The video is by PJW on Zerohedge.


124391 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to Kev, 1, #1176 of 1659 🔗

Any idea what the crowd were chanting?

124406 ▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to muzzle, 1, #1177 of 1659 🔗

“Freedom” I believe…

124407 ▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to muzzle, 2, #1178 of 1659 🔗

Libertad = Freedom

124415 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to muzzle, 2, #1179 of 1659 🔗

watched it yesterday.. I think it was libertad = liberty/freedom

124370 rod5ter, replying to rod5ter, 3, #1180 of 1659 🔗

A key argument for the new severe lockdown rules are to avoid a second wave like other countries. Is there a significant second wave in terms of hospital admissions and deaths anywhere in the world? Anyone know of a good place to see all the covid death rates for major countries —– I’m very keen to see the data. (Please keep up the great work Toby – its crucial)

124514 ▶▶ RTom, replying to rod5ter, #1181 of 1659 🔗

Inconveniently for a mild sceptic like me, the figures show there is something happening in Bouches-du-Rhone: Fewer than 10 in ICU in early August, now around 80, having climbed steadily for 3-4 weeks. Hospital admissions climbing, though with some volatility in the daily increment.

Detailed figures here:

Maybe something local, but seems to be making some people properly ill.

I wish we (UK) had such full information available presented in a way that treated us like adults.

124530 ▶▶ Mark, replying to rod5ter, 1, #1182 of 1659 🔗

Follow the link given by Toby above to Ivor Cummings’ video (first one in “Roundup” section), he covers the figures for a lot of countries there, discussing the “second wave” issue at length, and generally gives sources for at least the graphs. Good discussion of what’s going on generally, numbers-wise, as well.

124374 ajb97b, replying to ajb97b, 6, #1183 of 1659 🔗

Given the government’s many claims this last week that PCR detected cases have increased (with Hancock letting it slip that testing had also going up 25%), it is strange that by 4.30pm today they still have not updated the weekly figures on this: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

I’ll review it all if/when they do update, and let you know

124447 ▶▶ BobT, replying to ajb97b, #1184 of 1659 🔗

PHE issued guidance yesterday to all laboratories that they must test twice before declaring a positive and initiating contact tracing.


I don’t see how they can update the data until the new guidelines have been followed.

124562 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to BobT, #1185 of 1659 🔗

Those instructions to Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 labs were published online 3 days ago, but given to the labs 2 weeks ago. The new regimes do not stop the weekly data release (which still have not yet come out today (6.30pm). Suspicious ??

124767 ▶▶▶▶ BobT, replying to ajb97b, #1186 of 1659 🔗

Thanks for letting me know the labs received the instructions 2 weeks ago.
The instructions are a small step towards avoiding positive results at the limit of detection but they do little to bring us to and ideal situation where we only detect infectious people or those likely to become infectious.
Nevertheless, I believe that even this change will reduce the false positives by a large amount, so yes the lack of publication looks suspicious.

124776 ▶▶▶▶ BobT, replying to ajb97b, #1187 of 1659 🔗

The doc I linked above is marked as updated on the 9th. I do not know what the update changes, but while we are being suspicious……….

124462 ▶▶ jojo, replying to ajb97b, 1, #1188 of 1659 🔗

I had been checking it each day and it is strange that the no of daily tests processed is not updated after 2nd Sept. It was usually updated daily. Number of positive cases alone doesn’t mean much without considering the test positivity rate (no of positives per 100 tested).Test positivity rate for UK on 2nd Sept was 0.80%, among the lowest in the world.

124508 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to jojo, 1, #1189 of 1659 🔗

They ceased daily release of data about 20 August, and switched to weekly release (on Thursdays) of the last week’s daily numbers.

They also started to combine Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 positive counts, which helpfully (for them) obscures the fact that Pillar 1 has not been increasing AT ALL

They usually release mid afternoon, but as yet (6pm) have not done so today

124376 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 30, #1190 of 1659 🔗

Please let it be true and successful!

According to the Brussels Times over 240 Belgians, mostly from the business community, are suing Bill Gates, the Belgian government, and British epidemiologist Dr. Neil Ferguson over their existing Covid-19 lockdown measures.


124480 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1191 of 1659 🔗

Good on them! I heard a while ago that some construction companies were suing Sadiq Khan / London Mayor office for shutting down building works, even though he wasn’t required to by the government. Not sure how that’s going now.

124481 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1192 of 1659 🔗

Splendid news. Keep the ball rolling, all over our planet.

124596 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, #1193 of 1659 🔗

Good luck to them.

124378 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 19, #1194 of 1659 🔗

Well, that’s me on my “final warning” from Times Online. It seems I was reported by a bed wetting cretin who I called out for posting demonstrably false information. These bedwetters don’t like it up them (or perhaps some of them do).

124421 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #1195 of 1659 🔗

Good work, have you read the David Aaronovitch article today? they like to have their weekly articles trying to demonise anyone not rushing to have their vaccine. The Times pretty much reads like it is written in Whitehall over the past 6 months – pretty much pure propaganda.

124474 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #1196 of 1659 🔗

Well done, annoying someone.

Count it as a victory.

124385 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1197 of 1659 🔗

ECDC Case notifications C-19 per 100 000 Weeks 35-36 Europe.
 Must be the best irony today. If one visits Sweden ,one should quarantine for 14 days. Seems to have by far the biggest virus free area in Europe.

124392 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1198 of 1659 🔗

Well, that shines a light on the political bias.

124394 ajb97b, replying to ajb97b, 16, #1199 of 1659 🔗

BBC and Other MSM are today ‘discussing’ the moonshot idea of using ‘enabling tests’ to determine who is virus free and so able to enter concert venues, trains, planes, etc. What they are NOT then asking is what happens if you test positive – with the presumption being you’d be excluded from the cinema, school, hospital, plane etc.

They NEED to discuss that, because 1-2 weeks after SARS-CoV-2 infection and then for several months more a person will still score PCR positive and yet be non-infectious. So how will these “enabling tests” distinguish people who carry virus (recent infection) and are infectious vs those that carry the virus (ancient infection) and are non-infectious .

And what about false positives – perhaps 1%

Even worse, what is not being asked about is the obvious implication that these tests will be REQUIRED/MANDATORY. So we must all submit to daily testing, with this collected in a central database, also recording out name, location, contact details, family members….

This is so obviously all and only about control and monitoring of the whole population, and hence removal of liberty and soon thereafter a compulsory vaccine containing who knows what.

124403 ▶▶ Julian, replying to ajb97b, 11, #1200 of 1659 🔗

They need to stop discussing the idea, or just dismiss it for the nonsense it is – impractical and completely unnecessary

124429 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Julian, 3, #1201 of 1659 🔗

I suspect it is deliberate nonsense, they seem to specialise in spreading misinformation to the public.

124546 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Julian, #1202 of 1659 🔗

The problem is the media – policy dynamic.

This sort of things gets the attention the media craves. So they pursue it. But the fact that it gets the attention makes it plausible policy. And before you know it, it’s happening.

It’s almost as if society can’t stop itself from self harm.

124409 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to ajb97b, 10, #1203 of 1659 🔗

Maybe they are going for the complete scam of compulsory testing (with financial penalties for non compliance) and if you want to leave the testing program you have to take the vaccine. They are cunning devils and they are desperate to bring in digital IDs and compulsory adult vaccinations.

It’s all about control and monitoring once people accept this concept everything makes sense. I don’t believe for a minute it is random chaos – it’s the work of psychologists.

124426 ▶▶▶ spelldispel, replying to Darryl, 2, #1204 of 1659 🔗

Spot on and we must resist.

The other thing I thought of is that they will start making you pay for your own tests if you don’t have the vaccine. This gives a way out for all of them and their friends and associates who don’t want vaccine.

124441 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to spelldispel, 2, #1205 of 1659 🔗

These people are always scheming. I wouldn’t trust a single one of them. We pretty much have the whole government, military and media complex all working in tandem to get us compulsory vaccinated and digitally monitored. And we have the added bonus of having to pay taxes to enable them to do so!

124477 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Darryl, 2, #1206 of 1659 🔗

And neuroscientists. And Think Tanks. And…

124414 ▶▶ DRW, replying to ajb97b, 3, #1207 of 1659 🔗

Chinese-style digital test IDs, which will become vax IDs, have been planned for a while.
See this great Dave Cullen video: https://www.bitchute.com/video/4tLcwsCrAmI/

124416 ▶▶ spelldispel, replying to ajb97b, 4, #1208 of 1659 🔗

It’s just a way to force you to have the ‘non mandatory’ mandatory vaccine.

124419 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to ajb97b, 3, #1209 of 1659 🔗

So the first member of the family tests negative (in the privacy of your own home). What’s to stop him then doing another test, and another, and registering them to different family members?

124423 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1210 of 1659 🔗

Linked to DNA?

124427 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Darryl, 1, #1211 of 1659 🔗

Exactly. There would have to be a population-wide DNA database. And it may require all swab samples to be submitted for retrospective checking.

124453 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to ajb97b, 3, #1212 of 1659 🔗

False positive rate of 1% means every single day a random 600,000 people would be locked at home for two weeks (or whatever rule they come up with). After a while, you’ve got an average 840,000 people out of action, constantly changing. Utter chaos.

124459 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to ajb97b, 2, #1213 of 1659 🔗

Wait until a larger proportion of BAME people test positive and will not be allowed to go out or use services

124526 ▶▶ RickH, replying to ajb97b, 3, #1214 of 1659 🔗

It’s such a f.ing stupid idea, only brainless morons (or the truly evil) would contemplate it. 1% ‘false positives’? You must be joking – nearer 90% if you are looking for infective illness.

Such a proposal will be a one-question intelligence test : if you go along with it , society will probably be safer without your input. 🙂

124595 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, #1215 of 1659 🔗

Brainless morons can be a vessel for evil.

124771 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to ajb97b, #1216 of 1659 🔗

Maybe we can rely upon the general incompetence of politicians and the NHS for the whole idea to be either dropped or become an ignominious failure.

124404 Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #1217 of 1659 🔗

This is a You Tube video from back in June, an interview with Dr John Lee:


I would be interested in his opinion on the current situation.

124410 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #1218 of 1659 🔗

he was interviewed on Jeremy Vine show yesterday lunchtime R2 12.00 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mdfp

124422 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to mjr, #1219 of 1659 🔗


124430 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to mjr, 7, #1220 of 1659 🔗

Thanks for the post. Things are turning ‘A significant minority are now beginning to think that the cure is worse than the disease.’ and that was Jeremy Vine’s words.

Dr John Lee gives it all barrels too. He’s a legend.

The bedwetter he’s up against is a full on scaredy cat.

124478 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to mjr, #1221 of 1659 🔗

Just listened, thanks again. We need widespread discussion in the MSM with the ilk of Dr Lee.

124516 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to mjr, 2, #1222 of 1659 🔗

Just listening. That virologist is very stupid. He says that Covid is much worse than flu, and you shouldn’t be allowed to say otherwise on a national broadcast – a warning that I am sure will have been taken on board by the higher-ups at the beeb.

124537 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #1223 of 1659 🔗

Check Richie Allen in the next couple of weeks. He said that he wants to bring him on again soon.

124412 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 3, #1224 of 1659 🔗


Another interesting article from RT.

It pays to shop around now.

124696 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendyk, #1225 of 1659 🔗

Deutsche Bank , eh ? Bloody conspiracy theorists !

124417 Gtec, replying to Gtec, 44, #1226 of 1659 🔗

I’ve just posted this on the Telegraph site and it sums up how I feel about the latest round of restrictions; just wonder what’s next though – muzzles all the time anywhere outside?

“They can all whistle in the wind, as I couldn’t care less what that twerp Johnson and his fellow lickspittles say, I will not comply.

I have tried to support local businesses where possible, but with these further restrictions, I won’t be any longer; I have no desire to give my personal details to a retailer of any type.
Would you risk going for a beer or meal, then being told you have to stay home because someone who’s not ill, showed a possibly false positive to an unreliable test?

Certainly those with children in the family won’t be too keen as their children would then also have to be at home. Maybe the whole class would be placed under house arrest again. Who knows and who would want to take that risk?

This is probably going to be the end of many small pubs and restaurants, or perhaps even the not so small.

It is also going to be the death knell of many local groups, and clubs and societies, and perhaps the venues they meet in, as they will again be without customers and income.

It is sticking a knife into the heart of civil society and expecting the patient to live; some hope.

Not sure why this is happening if the original motive to was to avoid grief and distress, as the consequences of every government decision has had the opposite effect.

Yet, still there is no stopping the destruction of our lives, futures, health, and economy, to say nothing of the loss of hope for tomorrow.

I am in utter despair, and angry beyond belief. I wish all of our ‘masters’ ill.”

124457 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Gtec, 11, #1227 of 1659 🔗

“It is sticking a knife into the heart of civil society and expecting the patient to live”

They really don’t expect the “patient” to live. You’re far too naieve about what is happening.

124475 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ossettian, 5, #1228 of 1659 🔗

They don’t want the patient to live. The Global Reset is now fixed in their minds and, somehow, they can’t get rid of it. Doped?

124503 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ossettian, 2, #1229 of 1659 🔗

You’re right : as long as sociopaths and psychopaths are allowed control, this will be the case.

In the end, heads above the parapet are the only solution.

124418 Ozzie, 10, #1230 of 1659 🔗

Dismal news – Mrs Ozzie has just returned from the garden centre south of Oxford. All the punters were muzzled, even in the outdoor section. Compare this with just after lockdown was being eased with lots of unmasked customers enjoyed their re-found freedoms.

124420 Ryan, replying to Ryan, 26, #1231 of 1659 🔗

Long time no post.

Happily ignoring masks, distancing and quarantine after returning form a country on the naughty step.

I have another exclusion and way around the rule of 6.

Very simple.

Organised sport is excluded.

Meet up with 7, 8, 9 + friends in the park or wherever.

If questioned and / or harassed say you are playing an organised sport.


Designated a sport by the Olympic Committee.

Either have a set there or on a tablet/phone.

Fine me and I see you in court.

124473 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ryan, #1232 of 1659 🔗

How about a Rule of Six in Parliament? Only six MPs at a time. Maybe they’ll talk to each other if the PM is not around.

124524 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to richard riewer, 7, #1233 of 1659 🔗

Parliament is currently working on the rule of zero. That’s the total number of MPs doing their duty.

124496 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ryan, 1, #1234 of 1659 🔗

Or just say ‘f.it’, carry on regardless and sing ‘Alice’s Restaurant’.

124529 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to RickH, #1235 of 1659 🔗

Oh, I’ve been singing ‘Alice’s Restaurant’ for some time now. A very underrated song IMHO.

124688 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ryan, #1236 of 1659 🔗

Checkmate ! 🙂

124425 JoeBlogg, replying to JoeBlogg, 4, #1237 of 1659 🔗

Looking for some help/assistance please;

My elderly mother has suffered with M.S for over 30 years and has lost use in her arms and legs, her sight is impaired and hearing minimal. She was cared for by my father who died recently from cancer.

My bother who lives in the UK regulary visits to assist and help.
Unfortunately my Partner and I are unable to assist as we live in Phuket, Thailand.

Two regular female care assistants supplied by the council have been offering care throughout “Lockdown”, including showering and preparing for bed.

I spoke with my her today and found out that she has been informed by the council that, from now on, the care will be provided by two male assistants.

Is this even legal?

My partner is required to be patted down at airports by a same sex worker… the care involved is a lot more than a patting down.

124437 ▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to JoeBlogg, 2, #1238 of 1659 🔗

Not to mention these will no doubt be two masked men entering a partially deaf, partially blind, elderly ladies home.

124455 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to JoeBlogg, 4, #1239 of 1659 🔗


These people should be able to help.

You could also seek advice from a solicitor: an elderly, essentially helpless woman in need of intimate personal attention should be able to stipulate that she requires female helpers.

124466 ▶▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to wendyk, #1240 of 1659 🔗

great thanks, apparently that is all they have to offer due to “staff shortages” currently, either accept or no care minimum 2 weeks.

I have emailed and left messages to the council.

124702 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to JoeBlogg, 1, #1241 of 1659 🔗

There should be a director of adult social care at the council, and that’s the person you should contact. Keep a record of all your email correspondence; copy it to the council’s chief executive; and confirm any and all telephone conversations with a follow-up email (and if the person you speak to won’t give their email, then confirm with an email to the director of adult social care). In my experience, this works better than either dealing with a local (elected) councillor or even a GP (and that’s before you take into account that GPs have largely gone awol over the past six months).

124706 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, #1242 of 1659 🔗

Also, if you feel you are getting no joy there, then you should contact the chairman of the local safegarding adults board – every council has one, with a independent chairman – as this is clearly a serious safeguarding issue.

I wish you well.

124433 DJC, replying to DJC, 47, #1243 of 1659 🔗

A tribune from 35 researchers, academics and doctors published in today’s “Le Parisien” in France.

“We, scientists and academics from all disciplines, and health professionals, exercising our free will and our freedom of expression, say that we no longer want to be governed by and in fear. French society is currently under tension, many citizens are panicking or, on the contrary, laughing at the instructions, and many decision-makers are panicking. It is urgent to change course.

We are not at war but faced with an epidemic that caused 30 deaths on September 9, compared to 1,438 on April 14. The situation is therefore not at all the same as 5 months ago. Moreover, if war can sometimes justify a state of emergency and exceptional restrictions on the rule of law and public freedoms which are the basis of democracy and the Republic, this is not the case for an epidemic. Today as yesterday, this crisis must unite us and empower us, not divide us or subjugate us.

This is why we call on the French political and health authorities to stop instilling fear through an anxiety-provoking communication that systematically exaggerates the dangers without explaining the causes and mechanisms. We must not confuse enlightened accountability with moralizing guilt, nor civic education with infantilization. We also call on all journalists to no longer relay without discussion a communication that has become counterproductive: the majority of our fellow citizens no longer trust official speeches, conspiracies of all kinds abound on social networks and extremists are taking advantage.

General lockdown, an unprecedented measure in our history, had sometimes terrible individual, economic and social consequences which are far from having yet all been manifested and having all been evaluated. It is not responsible to maintain the threat of its renewal.

We must obviously protect the weakest. But just like the imposition of the wearing of masks in the street, including in regions where the virus does not circulate, the effectiveness of lockdown has not been scientifically demonstrated. These general and uniform measures, imposed under police surveillance, stem more from a desire to display a protective posture than from a precise health strategy. Hence their great volatility for six months. Many other countries are acting with more consistency. European coordination should be a necessity.

We also call on the government not to instrumentalize science. The sine qua non of science is transparency, pluralism, adversarial debate, precise knowledge of data and the absence of conflicts of interest. As the Covid-19 Scientific Council does not meet all of these criteria, it should be overhauled or disbanded.

We would also like to point out that the first to treat the sick are general practitioners. Removing them from the fight against Covid, by not providing them with tests or masks and by suspending their freedom to prescribe the authorized drugs of their choice was an error that must not be repeated. On the contrary, all caregivers must be mobilized, equipped and united in order to improve our reaction capacities and not restrict them.

Finally, the imperatives of protection against contagion must not lead to betraying medical ethics and fundamental humanist principles. Isolating the sick and protecting those at risk does not mean depriving them of all rights and all social life. Too many elderly people have died and are still deteriorating in abandonment motivated by unjustified health reasons. Too many families suffer from not being able to provide them with the affection essential to their happiness and their health.

We urgently need to get back to thinking together to democratically define our health strategies, restore the confidence of our fellow citizens and of the future to our youth.”

124439 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to DJC, 5, #1244 of 1659 🔗

Vive La France

124452 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to bluemoon, 11, #1245 of 1659 🔗

Beautifully put, and exactly what I think as a nurse and a human. If only they would listen. The harm done to the elderly and their families is truly appalling. I think there will be a massive backlash once the dust has settled. I also think that in part this is why the dust isn’t being allowed to settle.

124469 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to bluemoon, 3, #1246 of 1659 🔗

Vive les français(es) intelligents(es)!

124490 ▶▶ Edward, replying to DJC, #1247 of 1659 🔗

Good statement. The only point I would disagree with is “European coordination should be a necessity”. That would presumably prevent Sweden from following its own policy.

124512 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to DJC, 2, #1248 of 1659 🔗

They will do anything to stop the yellow vests

124547 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to DJC, #1249 of 1659 🔗

Can I ask whether you have sent this to Toby for inclusion in a forthcoming LS edition? Could be something that he would include. We need a similar group here to write to the DT or similar.

124574 ▶▶▶ DJC, replying to Ozzie, #1250 of 1659 🔗

No I haven’t, feel free to do so.

124589 ▶▶ annie, replying to DJC, #1251 of 1659 🔗

Many, many thanks for posting this. It restores some of my battered faith in French clarté.

124436 spelldispel, replying to spelldispel, 4, #1252 of 1659 🔗

Anyone been sent a letter from Ipsos Mori/ Imperial College asking to be part of testing research study? If so what blood group are you? My partner was sent one. I am wondering if they are targeting certain blood groups?

It’s been filed in the bin by the way.

124448 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to spelldispel, 5, #1253 of 1659 🔗

Yes, my other half got one today too. Filed on top of the shredder for “processing” later this evening 😀

124465 ▶▶▶ spelldispel, replying to Matt The Cat, #1254 of 1659 🔗

Do you know their blood group and have they recently been in hospital? I am wondering if it is targeted. My partner is a rare blood group and has recently had an operation where his blood group would likely have been taken.

124499 ▶▶▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to spelldispel, #1255 of 1659 🔗

She was in for three nights about four years back for a hysterectomy due to endometriosis, but that’s been about the extent of her dealings with the NHS to date, thank god! I don’t know what her blood group is, to be honest I doubt she even knows 🙂

124483 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Matt The Cat, 1, #1256 of 1659 🔗

I would save it for the inevitable toilet roll shortage

124464 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to spelldispel, #1257 of 1659 🔗

I read somewhere many months ago that O positive blood groups are less susceptible.

124472 ▶▶▶ spelldispel, replying to richard riewer, #1258 of 1659 🔗

Yes, I have read that and that they maybe searching for something specific through the testing.

124568 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to richard riewer, #1259 of 1659 🔗

lot of stuff came out in June .. Group O had slightly less chance of catching. Group O is about 45% of population . Group A is about 40% and they were slightly higher risk

124617 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to richard riewer, #1260 of 1659 🔗

I do know my blood group, O+…. Used to give blood many years ago but stopped due to some heart investigations. Now with prostate cancer I am not allowed anyway. Not seen one of these invitations but I know my friend Mike has and has enthusiastically agreed…

124515 ▶▶ stewart, replying to spelldispel, 2, #1261 of 1659 🔗

Send them the letter back with a sample of your faeces. Tell them to test that.

124569 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to spelldispel, 1, #1262 of 1659 🔗

Loads of people here have had them, seems to have started back in July. Someone’s 9 year old had one, I’ve had 2 invites (both binned). Think they’re desperate to recruit by now.

124438 mjr, replying to mjr, 4, #1263 of 1659 🔗

Shopper who refused to wear mask fined twice in one day worrying — but
Greater Manchester Police said officers on daily patrols had been handing out masks in supermarkets as part of a council scheme.” and she did not plead an exemption .

124470 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to mjr, 10, #1264 of 1659 🔗

The fact that anyone can claim an exemption makes me think that this is fake news designed to make people too scared not to wear a mask.

124506 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Quernus, 7, #1265 of 1659 🔗

It is strange. As far as I know, you can simply say that wearing a mask causes you distress (bending the knee to tyranny causes me distress!) and they have to accept that. I don’t think you need any sort of medical proof.

124513 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Chicot, 2, #1266 of 1659 🔗

It’s one of the most bizarre laws I have ever come across – specifically that exemption

124536 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Julian, 3, #1267 of 1659 🔗

I think that the government is attempting to cover its a*se in case masks turnout to have major negative effects. The punters have to determine their own risk levels of wearing them.

124552 ▶▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Julian, 1, #1268 of 1659 🔗

The originating SI is so widely drafted that you can drive a bus through – whether that’s by incompetence, or (more likely) because such a law is simply not reasonable or enforceable, and they know it.

124533 ▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Chicot, 4, #1269 of 1659 🔗

You are quite right. Take a look at this website for more detail: http://www.nomasks.info

Absolutely no proof required and, what’s even better, is that no-one can question your right to be unmasked as it contravenes the Equality Act 2010.

I am really surprised that more haven’t taken up the mask exemption route. Do people really want to walk around with face-coverings on?

124561 ▶▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1270 of 1659 🔗

Sadly my experience is that most people don’t know they can claim an exemption. I hear so often “I hate wearing them but I have to wear it”. Of course, I always enlighten them, beaming at them with my mask-free smile, but they just sort of nod vaguely.

I’m planning to make up some business cards to hand out with QR code links to the the excellent website, Law or Fiction ( http://www.laworfiction.com/ ) which spells out what the legal position ACTUALLY is.

124587 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ozzie, 3, #1271 of 1659 🔗

Some do. Saw one this evening walking around a breezy seaside resort wearing a face nappy under a visor.
He made me feel sick. Acute distaste.

124732 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1272 of 1659 🔗

I have simply not gone anywhere that requires one, because I dislike confrontation, or the prospect of it. Cowardice, one of my many weaknesses. I am sure I am not the only one.

But should I need to, I am tempted to say I am exempt and if pressed (by a police officer I suppose) cite the severe distress exemption. How on earth would a court decide that?

124749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Julian, #1273 of 1659 🔗

It would never get that far. As soon as you state that you are exempt that is the end of the matter. The exemption law makes that clear. I had a jobsworthy ask my grounds for exemption at Eurotunnel. I told him that was an illegal question under the Equality Act 2010. I then took his name and said that I would write to his employer. He backed off rapidly.

124517 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to mjr, #1274 of 1659 🔗

Good for her. If everyone did that they’d be snookered.

124558 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #1275 of 1659 🔗

to comments in reply
no – i think it is genuine.. One of the problems highlighted here is that most people do not know about exemptions and obviously the fact they exist is not mentioned by the authorities or shops. So the person in question who was being wonderfully bloody minded just did not know she could claim an exemption
And correct – you dont need any proof. You dont really have to specify what your exemption is unless it is the police asking you and as you say, distress is valid and usefully very vague

124577 ▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to mjr, #1276 of 1659 🔗

Actually, you’re right – very few people have bothered to look at the actual legislation, and are just blindly following the government/shop/police instructions.

As I stated in an earlier comment, I’m planning to make up some business cards to hand out with QR code links to the excellent website Law or Fiction ( http://www.laworfiction.com/ ) so people can go and find out what their rights and obligations are.

124752 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to mjr, #1277 of 1659 🔗

I don’t think the police can ask that, but if so, just say due to asthma or mental illness. These are private matters and the police can’t delve further as the exemptions don’t require any medical documentation, which is explicit on the gov.uk website.

124566 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to mjr, 2, #1278 of 1659 🔗

I’ve been back in Blighty ten days and I’ve yet to see a police and I’m out and about every day – not even loitering near the local supermarket.

124590 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1279 of 1659 🔗

me neither – that is normal in most places. .. However as per the post — this was a council initiative so obviously had active police presence on the lookout for no masks
Make up of Rochdale Council There are currently 44 Labour, 9 Conservative, 3 Liberal Democrat, 3 Independent and 1 Non-Aligned. Go figure!!!

124440 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #1280 of 1659 🔗

Sweden added to Travel Corridor this week. I predict a holiday mass exodus.

124479 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1281 of 1659 🔗

Very tempted!

124498 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1282 of 1659 🔗

Yes and hopefully people will remember how nice it is to live in a free country and not stand for all this nonsense when they return.

124542 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1283 of 1659 🔗

Would not surprise me if some decide to claim asylum.

124446 tallandbald, replying to tallandbald, 6, #1284 of 1659 🔗

For a while now i have been convinced this situation we face is not incompetence. It cannot be. Backtracking incompetence shows up logic in it’s route back to sanity and nowhere is there any logic in the decisions being made.

My steadily hardening opinion is that this situation is tied into the economy, as is shared by some of you on here. So this afternoon i went searching for a “way to reset an economy” and came across this article from 4 years ago.

Reading it made sense under the cold light of this years events and I am even more convinced by it’s conclusions.

Then i saw the author. Member of Boston Consulting Group.
I am no economics expert – far from it – but this is the only explanation i can come up with to explain the illogical and ruining decisions coming out of Westminster. Then again i could be a lonely dog barking up the wrong tree.


124484 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to tallandbald, 2, #1285 of 1659 🔗

Yep, it’s called the Great Reset – WEF seems to have been thinking about it for a while too:

124485 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to tallandbald, 1, #1286 of 1659 🔗

Wherever we look: The world needs a reset. As with a computer that freezes, we need a reboot of the global economic engine. Ideally, we do it in one step for the entire world.

Indeed, that’s how it looks…

124489 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to tallandbald, 3, #1287 of 1659 🔗

You are giving them WAY too much credit.

124492 ▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to jhfreedom, #1288 of 1659 🔗

I actually only looked to see if there was any insight into what would actually happen during this great reset. What to expect, you know..

124539 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to tallandbald, 2, #1289 of 1659 🔗

Dont know what a reset would actually do if they devalued and we all ended up the same as before. No one worse off, no one better off. I would say this is all about the Global Climate Change zealots wanting to stop the plebs, living basically, enjoying holidays too often and destroying what they think of as THEIR world. They want us, not the elite, to have a health passport (the reason for the pandemic) and to be able to restrict movement.

124497 ▶▶ spelldispel, replying to tallandbald, 5, #1290 of 1659 🔗

Great Reset as promoted by the World Economic Forum, who incidentally were part of Event 201 also sponsored by the John Hopkins Center and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation which in turn have links to Gavi and Imperial College where the modelling came from. The WHO and the United Nations are all interconnected into this too. If you stop thinking this is about a virus and refocus on control instead you can see that it is about restructuring society and the economy.

124545 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to tallandbald, 1, #1291 of 1659 🔗

Agreed. And this is worth watching too – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9jRqgDOJ8

124564 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to tallandbald, #1292 of 1659 🔗

Boston Consulting are all over this. They spout the usual management speak that appeals to Cummings, not surprisingly his blog and their favourite opinion formers tie up nicely. Enjoy their website, e.g. on Track and Trace, always remembering, they’re trying to sell you some ‘actionable insights out of thought leadership from their world leading POV solutions centre’ (or something like that):


124743 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bruno, #1293 of 1659 🔗

I can say that the amount of material produced by the Big 4 to appeal to businesses when Covid hit was incredible. Mountains of propositions for all areas of service

124449 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 50, #1294 of 1659 🔗

I am a child of the 60’s,you know, the generation who “hoped they died before they got old”
Now as I see a lot of my fellow 70 somethings in their face nappies using hand sanitizer like there’s a world shortage,scurrying from 1 Covid secure shop to another before they rush home to lock themselves away for days, hardly daring to look outside, I truly think that they are dead but nobody has told them.

124461 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1295 of 1659 🔗

One of those toy guns that shows a flag when you pull the trigger and it reads ‘Bang! You’re Dead’!

124467 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to richard riewer, 4, #1296 of 1659 🔗

Don’t frighten them, they’re scared enough already.

124812 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1297 of 1659 🔗

Scared to death.

124549 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1298 of 1659 🔗

one of these

124463 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 11, #1299 of 1659 🔗

I don’t think there’s a reason to be ageist at this miserable time. As a fellow Old Fart, I’m finding that the real disease – that spread by SPI-B – is pretty indiscriminate in terms of age.

If anything, my concern is that those of the age -group that I would expect to be kicking most strongly against the incipient fascism have not been doing so.

And, no, I’m not speaking with a sense of superiority; I was hedonistically fairly politically unaware and inactive at a time when contemporaries were sticking their necks out over, for instance, Vietnam and the invasion of universities by corporate interests.

But I don’t see the current equivalent when totalitarianism is smacking everyone in the teeth.

124494 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RickH, #1300 of 1659 🔗


124523 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1301 of 1659 🔗

What’s more this is supposedly a virus and the hand sanitizer they are slapping on is anti bacterial. Not sure if very effective for a virus but at least it’s giving people eczema and dermatitis.

124583 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Suzyv, 2, #1302 of 1659 🔗

And encouraging superbugs. Very clever.

124460 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 10, #1303 of 1659 🔗

Comments at the BBC very unimpressed with the government’s latest rules. Worth a look. Quite cheering:

124652 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to JohnMac, 5, #1304 of 1659 🔗

This ones a cracker:

Traffic Wardens are dancing down the streets this morning after finding out that they are no longer the most hated people in England because of Covid Marshalls.

124809 ▶▶ annie, replying to JohnMac, #1305 of 1659 🔗

I made a comment which was deleted after literally five minutes. Somebody at the Beeb is working really hard – or do they have an instant scepticism-deleting app?

124488 Norma McNormalface, 15, #1307 of 1659 🔗

OK, this is just getting silly now. Daily covid tests? Yeah, that’ll work. That idea’s right up there with the A-level algorithm. And all this talk of “cancelling Christmas” and what we “can and can’t do” (to use the government’s own words). Are these new Covid marshalls going to knock on the door of every single house in Britain on Christmas Day and make sure their aren’t more than 6 people sat round the turkey dinner? Next thing they’ll be saying “If you are socialising indoors in a group of 6, and somebody gives birth to make it 7, you could face a fine of £100 and risk arrest”.

124510 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 7, #1308 of 1659 🔗

Were those ‘deaths’ today ‘reported deaths’ or real ones that happened yesterday? They have been bumping along with single figures for weeks now. I’m betting they were throwing a few deaths a week into the pending bucket to be brought out when the government propaganda needed them.

124518 ▶▶ DRW, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #1309 of 1659 🔗

I agree, obvious backlog stuffing to promote the latest scaremongering and the renewal of their dictatorial powers.

124551 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #1310 of 1659 🔗

It’s reported deaths. The figure will be adjusted to actual deaths in the coming days (and weeks). Essentially, hardly anyone – perhaps no one – is dying of lab flu now. Any deaths reported are more than likely to be people in hospital with an unrelated illness but who’ve tested positive for the virus.

124565 ▶▶ jojo, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1311 of 1659 🔗

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths gives both deaths by date of death and also by date reported. Numbers are available under the Data tab.

The 32 deaths reported on 8th Sept are ‘reported deaths’. Actual deaths on 8th Sept are 8.

124511 Caramel, replying to Caramel, 1, #1312 of 1659 🔗

I’m glad that the NZ Covid Plan B group got a shoutout. Their interviews with Prof Sunetra Gupta, Jay Battacharya, etc really are excellent. And with more support, it might change things for NZ, Aus, and maybe even the UK. I push them but I just want things to change in Aus.

124734 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Caramel, #1313 of 1659 🔗

Agreed. And their list of resources is a treasure trove. If you need to inform, I urge everyone to raid it.


124521 NappyFace, 5, #1314 of 1659 🔗

Make your own Lockdownsceptics.org stickers folks. These can go in a variety of places.

Toby – you need a welcome page with the basic facts – the millions starving, the millions losing their livelihood, the half a billion pushed into poverty, the tens of thousands dying of cancer and heart disease which could have been avoidable had appointments not been cancelled, the range of estimated IFR.

124527 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #1315 of 1659 🔗

“Lockdown Was an Overreaction” – Professor Karol Sikora

124531 T. Prince, 2, #1316 of 1659 🔗

Short watch, 4 minutes. Tony Heller calls out the US press. Unbelievable


124534 hotrod, replying to hotrod, #1317 of 1659 🔗

Something NOT seen mentioned on here regarding Valence at yesterday’s press conference.

Valence used the term ‘epidemic’ when describing current situation.

Didn’t correct himself.

Slip of tongue or otherwise?

124559 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to hotrod, 1, #1318 of 1659 🔗

Why be specific or proportionate or evidential? Keep it vague, scary and untrue….

124674 ▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, #1319 of 1659 🔗

Look on the bright side : referring to it as an ‘epidemic’ proves that he knows shit.

124575 ▶▶ annie, replying to Caramel, 6, #1321 of 1659 🔗

Whenever you think these fiends can go no further in bestial cruelty, they go further.

124594 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to annie, 2, #1322 of 1659 🔗

Those who can make you believe absurdities, WILL make you commit atrocities…

124538 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #1323 of 1659 🔗

Coronavirus Marshals

Blockleiter (English: Block Leader, derived from city block) from 1933 was the title of a lower Nazi Party political rank responsible for the political supervision of a neighborhood. Referred to in common parlance as Blockwart (Block Warden), the officials were in charge to form the link between the Nazi authorities and the general population. The derogatory term Blockwart (“snoop”) survives in German colloquial language.

One thing you can be certain of – the bastards who are signed up for the role will not answer questions about coronavirus or the supposed dangers their position relies on.

124544 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 4, #1324 of 1659 🔗

Maybe we could all get a job and spread the sceptic word.

What do you reckon?

124588 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1325 of 1659 🔗

I think our record would be made known at application stage.

Is it a criminal offence for impersonating a blockwart?

124597 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1326 of 1659 🔗

You can just imagine what the ‘induction’ course will be like …

124609 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1327 of 1659 🔗

“You! Yes, you people over there, group of five in flowery masks! What d’you think you’re playing at? You don’t need those rags over your face, that’s ruining millions of years of evolution that is! How dare you? Take ’em off right now. Chuck ’em in the bin and don’t let me see you wearing them again! You’re shopping to buy things, not rob the place!”

124557 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 3, #1328 of 1659 🔗

I’m actually looking forward to having a close up discussion with a Blockwart which I don’t think is against the law (yet).

124592 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Basics, 1, #1329 of 1659 🔗

Not snoop, Schnueffler, but Denunziant.
The verdict upon them used to be clear, after the Nazis and the Stasi, but sadly, modern day Covid zealots have forgotten history’s lessons there as well.

“Verpestet ist ein ganzes Land,
Wo schleicht herum der Denunziant.
Der Menschheit Schandfleck wird genannt
Der niederträcht’ge Denunziant.”

And most popular:
„Der größte Lump (rascal, scumbag) im ganzen Land,
das ist und bleibt der Denunziant“.

Britain’s Finest?

124610 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1330 of 1659 🔗

Dolores Cahill quoted the German protest organisers saying 60% of Germany is awake. I wondered if cultural legacies and education has a role to play in that.

124543 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to hotrod, 7, #1332 of 1659 🔗

Yep, you can spot the paid trolls now on a lot of the “stories”.

Other than the rabid pro-narrative few the rest are very anti.

The proles finally waking up.

124585 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1333 of 1659 🔗

Thanks for that assessment I’m unable to see a lot of comments so spotting a trend like that is impossible. Good to hear.

124571 ▶▶ Mark, replying to hotrod, 3, #1334 of 1659 🔗

Anders Tegnell, the brains behind Sweden’s coronavirus strategy, is considered controversial by many of his academic peers in Europe but is regarded as a hero in Sweden

Well here’s a “compare and contrast” quote for that one:

“- Today, all countries in Europe more or less follow the Swedish model – but no one would admit it. That is not politically correct.” Antoine Flahault, professor of epidemiology at the University of Geneva and head of the Institute of Global Health.”


124578 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Mark, 7, #1335 of 1659 🔗

Tegnell chose the conventional, time-tested, logical and all-incorporating approach.
This only became controversial as the RoW chose the first time ever, illogical and one-dimensional approach instead.
The rest is or will, hopefully soon, be history.

124603 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1336 of 1659 🔗

As Tegnell said, Sweden is the country sticking to the tried’n’tested methods, it’s the RoW conducting the dangerous experiment. Worse, using their own people as if we live in a giant petri dish.

124573 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to hotrod, 4, #1337 of 1659 🔗

No masks, no Corona and no other problems.

124599 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hotrod, 6, #1338 of 1659 🔗

A few have started to turn. DT and the Currant Bun too. Maybe others.

124616 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1339 of 1659 🔗

The problem is that those two are so badly compromised by their history that it’s not a great asset – except in terms of perhaps influencing readers dim enough to buy them.

124637 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 2, #1340 of 1659 🔗

At least it’s a start. There may even be others.

124541 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1341 of 1659 🔗

Aaargh. Trying to post a pic! Failed – again.

124548 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1342 of 1659 🔗

I find the easiest way is to save a copy onto my desktop then attach it from there.

I’m sure there’s a better way but I’ve not tried to find one.

124602 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1343 of 1659 🔗

right click on image. save as … give it a name and save then on post click on the mountain image and find it.
note there is an issue with windows 10 . you think it saves as jpeg but it doesnt ,. it saves it as a jfif which is not accepted on here ..
Solution is when you do save as .. specify the extension e.g. image.jpeg and on the file type field drop down select all files .

124554 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1344 of 1659 🔗

German doctors come right out and say that COVID is an ‘organised crime’

Twitter video 2 mins. Press conference. Germany leading the way.


124570 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Basics, 2, #1345 of 1659 🔗

But the doctors the government listens to testified in parliament yesterday that it’s all so bad that the restrictiond need to be kept in place open-ended.
Whose bread I eat…

124580 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1346 of 1659 🔗

Thanks. The German effort is really excellent. Worthwhile looking into. Britain needs something similar.

124563 RickH, replying to RickH, 10, #1347 of 1659 🔗

Perhaps one of the few positives of this situation is the confirmation that any structural concentration of political power is a bad thing – even if you think you’re in favour of those who hold it.

Constraints are all in a democracy.

It’s significant that, in Sweden, government cannot control public health advice and action.

Before getting back to service as normal (if not too late), we need a consensus to eliminate direct political control of essential institutions without handing them to equally dictatorial private influence.

124582 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to RickH, 4, #1348 of 1659 🔗

I think we used to have at least one political party that undestood and upheld the Lockean settlement of limited powers, checks and balances. But apparently now we have none.

Liberalism was such a good idea. In a form that could make its peace with tradition, it was a sublimely good idea. [Sad face]

124608 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ovis, 3, #1349 of 1659 🔗

Well – it was actually more than one party. There was a balance of powers that – in that messy way of good governance in a democracy – did actually work. One of the key balances was between levels of governance.

When the balance changed is an interesting question, but it wasn’t down to one party. Thatcher’s governments had a key hand in the growth of centralization and diktat, and so did Blair’s. The confluence of Cameron’s Tories and Clegg’s Orange Book Lib Dems headed in the same direction.Both worked to destroy local autonomy. I watched the destruction of local government and the substitution of more and more incompetent centralism.

Aneurin Bevan said that the purpose of holding power was to give it away.

How many politicians would say that now?

124627 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to RickH, #1350 of 1659 🔗

Liberalism was the dominant political idea of the C20. It was not limited to one party, but had in effect seeded three across the political spectrum. Now it’s nowhere.

124591 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 4, #1351 of 1659 🔗

I’ve been thinking for some time that the NHS, elderly social care (mainly, but not necessarily exclusively) and education really ought to be owned “in trust” by the State, rather than micro-managed and run by the State. The greatest failure of politically-controlled State ownership is that these services become political footballs of the yah-boo style of politics inevitable in a free society. A circle we need to square, if you will.

But how we make that work… Christ knows.

124799 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Nick Rose, #1352 of 1659 🔗

Tend to disagree on the state bit.
One of the main causes of our current problems is overcentralisation of everything.
Copying the Swiss canton system for the UK would mean devolving 60% + of all govt activities to shire level.
That is the level that should ” own” health, care, policing etc etc.
It certainly works in Switzerland.

124826 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nessimmersion, #1353 of 1659 🔗

My old director of studies wrote a book called “why Switzerland?”

Always thought the title was amusing, but anyway, the fundamental point is that the very odd medieval federal constitution of Switzerland has never worked anywhere except Switzerland and the universities of Oxford and Cambridge.

125684 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to matt, #1354 of 1659 🔗

UK shires are analagous to the Cantons.
At one time UK shires were much more independent of central control, more locally accountable and much better run.

124846 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1355 of 1659 🔗

Health is done like that in Sweden – ie regionally. Amounts allocated by size of population.

124598 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to RickH, 3, #1356 of 1659 🔗

Agree completely. The ludicrous situation we are in has shown me the system has gone terribly wrong and needs a reappraisal.

124567 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1357 of 1659 🔗

On the futility of lockdowns, masks and test&tracing:
On the fraudulent futility of testing, whether PCR, antigene or antibody, not to speak of totally deluded and unaffordable moonshots:
(You will often find these articles translated at the offG in a few days)
On the futility and huge risks of vaccinations against Corona viruses, also available per video at RPP Institute, by Prof. Paul Cullen.
Intro summary: The 4 criteria for a good vaccine candidate since Ed Jenner’s perfect example from 1796: a really bad and serious disease for those to be vaccinated, the vaccine offers long term protection against it, the pathogen doesn’t mutate and it exists only in humans.
(Seems if one wanted to create the exact opposite, one would have to invent SARS Cov2 and Covid 19…)
The problems of the Oxford/AstraZeneca candidate, and that was before the trial halt:

124593 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #1358 of 1659 🔗

I come from Jenner’s part of the world, and one of the ‘Houses’ at school was named after him.

I’ve since learned of William Farr and his 19th C. insights into epidemics.

Both are in advance of the devious time-servers now being gifted policy decisions.

A sickening regression.

124576 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1359 of 1659 🔗

Apologies if posted already.

3 month old and 19 month old forced to wear masks by American enforcers on plane. The parent seems like a really decent man.

More videos each day – themselves part of the control psy-op. Never-the-less here is the tweet and link to short video.

Earlier today my family endure the most horrific & dehumanizing treatment onboard
plane. My wife was threatening to be arrested & forcibly removed unless my daughters, 3 yrs & 19 months would wear a mask. While my 3yrs wore her mask, the 19 months old was hysterical.


crew members wrongfully citing
policy for enforcing my 19 months to wear a mask. Eventually, the entire flight was cancelled & all passengers were removed from the plane.

“children under 2 years old should not wear a mask”

While the sudden shocking decision by
to cancel the entire fight moments before take-off caused some passengers to hurl racist & Islamophobic remarks at my family, we are incredibly grateful and humbled by the overwhelming support & love from a majority of the passengers

We wish to extend our sincere regards & prayers for the passengers who had to endure any form of discomfort & hardship, we’re glad to learn that most passengers have made it to their destination. We are dearly touched by all messages from various passengers throughout the day.


124586 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Basics, 10, #1360 of 1659 🔗

I read about it yesterday. Absolutely disgraceful that the airline employees didn’t even properly understand the rules. I could mention that masking young children is abusive, but I’d be preaching to the converted on this site. Of course the 19-month-old was hysterical — I become hysterical when I put a mask on. Kids react naturally and the natural reaction is to rip the damn thing off.

124605 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #1361 of 1659 🔗

Again we see police in yet another country with pickled brains not acting with the sense they were born with.

Not just kids reaction most people still have that desire to rip the stupid things off. Kids have good sense, when it’s all educated out of them they become politicians and evidently airport police.

These threads are a kind of archive.Hopefully useful to add things even though most of us know. Also, there’s the gallery of readers who don’t comment. Some who like to read. Others who may be officials – good to let them know we see them – that little man in the black bike hat on the plane has his conduct seen by the world.

124707 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #1362 of 1659 🔗

Offer a correction to myself above. These were Canadian enforcers. Not American as I wrongly stated.

124607 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Basics, 6, #1363 of 1659 🔗

This is absolute over the top barking mad lunacy, surely there is an airline travel body of some kind who can issue some overall guidance on this? This whole Covid thing is becoming like a cult religion, with the magic religious talisman being the purposeless face-rag. All for a virus that does?????????????? can anyone tell me what this virus is doing? ‘sweet fanny adams’ as far as I can see and yet we must all bow to the great God ‘Covid’ and do ridiculous things or the horrible beelzebub devil Covid might get us all………… and we thought the medieval witch hunts and the Salem witch trials were silly primitive stuff, they now seem like sophisticated behaviour compared to living in Covoid land!

124611 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, #1364 of 1659 🔗

They changed their stance on 1st Sept:

Zero tolerance mask policy
Effective September 1, 2020, the WestJet Group will implement a zero-tolerance policy in support of the requirement for all guests over the age of two to wear masks and face coverings. Non-compliant guests will face penalties including denied boarding, return of the aircraft to the gate to offload the passenger and the suspension of travel on any WestJet Group aircraft for up to one year.

Non-compliance on board the aircraft will be managed through a three-step process:

  1. Passengers will first be asked to put the mask on in a discussion with cabin crew.
  2. Passengers will be given a warning that masks are required, and compliance is necessary.

Passengers will receive notice that non-compliance will result in follow up notification that they will be placed on a no-fly list for 12-months

I posted the other day as shocking that they impose this on toddlers.

124618 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1365 of 1659 🔗

My God,they are vile.

124624 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1366 of 1659 🔗

I’ve voluntarily put myself on the no-fly list until this lunacy ends. It could be a while…

124632 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sarigan, 8, #1367 of 1659 🔗

The phrase “zero tolerance” is a strong bullshit indicator. As I said in an earlier post, I hope WestJet Group go bust.

124650 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, #1368 of 1659 🔗

and ‘guests’. Ffs.

124692 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, #1369 of 1659 🔗

Will somebody please let us know when they do?

124649 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1370 of 1659 🔗

They’re going to go bust.

124704 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1371 of 1659 🔗

3 and 19 months.

2 year olds must wear masks. No words. Just read it and turn away from west jet for good.

124620 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Basics, 3, #1372 of 1659 🔗

The delights of the caring Justinland for you.

124883 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1373 of 1659 🔗

Isn’t that the tolerant & welcoming place that kicked out Harry & Meghan for being foreigners??! 🙂

124581 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1374 of 1659 🔗

Carrying on from an earlier post:

Son just called, the place he used to work for has just sacked all kitchen staff, front of house management will have to do the cooking for any customers that come in in all 7 sites/high end gastropubs they run.

124584 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1375 of 1659 🔗

Well – that looks like suicide. They’re f.ed.

124600 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1376 of 1659 🔗

Give it a week?

124606 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1377 of 1659 🔗

who wants a meal cooked by a waiter !!!

124730 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to mjr, #1378 of 1659 🔗

Good way to run down a business with a reputation. They think they are getting customers, but the customers don’t come back.

124601 Barney McGrew, 14, #1379 of 1659 🔗

Couldn’t bear to listen to all of the Jeremy Vine interview with John Lee and a very stupid virologist. When I left it, John Lee seemed to be on the defensive, having already said that New Zealand were “very lucky” – I don’t think he should have granted that.

There’s a really devastating question to ask people like that virologist, and Matt Hancock:

“Have you modelled how many people will die from causes other than Covid as a result of your policies? If so, what are the figures? And if not….”

124604 JYC, replying to JYC, 23, #1380 of 1659 🔗

Can no-one – none of the ordinary folk going about their daily lives nor any of our elected representatives – see how monumentally stupid this all is? We were supposed to be having another family visiting us on Saturday for a couple of hours. There would have been more than six of us. Following Sturgeon’s latest diktat, although we would still have been glad for them to come, they have cancelled. What needs to happen for this country to wake up?

124621 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to JYC, 8, #1381 of 1659 🔗

It’s odd. What people were perfectly happy to do one day in the twinkling of an eye they become frit to do the next day. I can’t explain it. But I do have a bit of cheery news to relate from my own bailiwick.

Sat at the front of the open top double decker bus today I be on most days, when I got up to leave I found myself looking at faces and not masks! – of them as got on after me!

124631 ▶▶ James, replying to JYC, 3, #1382 of 1659 🔗

It needs to get a whole lot worse and people need to stop moaning incredulously at the calculated stupidity and incompetence of our elected representatives and actually do something. Possibly something quite drastic.

124612 Gladiatrix, 2, #1383 of 1659 🔗

If Toby et al want to create a class action to charge the Cabinet with misfeasance in a public office, I will gladly contribute.

124615 annie, replying to annie, 5, #1384 of 1659 🔗

I keep wondering a out the Repulsive Matt. It’s clear that Boris has been incapable of coherent though for months, but does the R. M.

  1. Believe all the lies he tells,
  2. Disbelieve the lies he tells but enjoys the effect they produce on the stupid and the gullible,
  3. Engage in doublethink, both believing and disbelieving the lies he tells,
  4. Suffer from a complete inability to distinguish between truth and lies?
124640 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to annie, 2, #1385 of 1659 🔗

I think 2 – enjoying the power whilst at the same time being aware somewhere deep in his soul, such as it is, that he is an odious lying little creep who has caused irreparable harm and misery to the country and who will eventually get his comeuppance.

124663 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1386 of 1659 🔗

I do wonder how much Matt H is being paid by Bill Gates and co for all this…?

124670 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #1387 of 1659 🔗

I wonder where the fuck he expects to live once it’s all over …

124694 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #1388 of 1659 🔗

Good point.. there will likely be a target on his head for the rest of his life.. Maybe he will move to NZ, like a lot of celebs are apparently doing..

124765 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Carrie, #1389 of 1659 🔗

Quarantine him for life with a bit of luck. I’ve just been told you’re let out for 40mins per day if you’re quarantined in NZ.

124657 ▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 2, #1390 of 1659 🔗

I didn’t think I was that bad.

124687 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, #1391 of 1659 🔗

Aaaaaargh, I forgot we had our own Matt!
I grovel.
Dust and ashes! 😿

124622 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 8, #1392 of 1659 🔗

Just read daily mail article on man thrown of easyJet flight from Edinburgh to Luton for not wearing a mask. The comments are absolutely depressing. About 70% supporting the airlines action.
Sorry fellow sceptics, but I don’t think we are winning the war!

124644 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alan P, 7, #1393 of 1659 🔗

Would have been 90% 4 months ago. We’ll get there.

124623 Dorian_Hawkmoon, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 5, #1394 of 1659 🔗

Please help me out with my sums here.
Quite apart from the cost. Govt are going to spend £100 billion, 3/4 of the NHS budget on daily spit tests for all. Could be 10 million tests a day. Say the false positive rate is 1% (we have no idea). 100, 000 false positives a day, all to quarantine plus contacts. At the end of the first 14 days that generates a permanent rolling quarantined population, a standing/mexican wave, of………………at least 1.4 million. 🥶

124629 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Dorian_Hawkmoon, 2, #1395 of 1659 🔗

Just found this about spit tests :

“Studies conducted by the University of Bristol found that the test had 99.8 per cent sensitivity, identifying all real cases and avoiding false negatives”

Even if they were 100% I just can’t fathom how the expenditure or imposition on our lives could be justified.

124671 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1396 of 1659 🔗

Just out of interest, how did they verify the tests? I thought the PCR test had a false positive rate of the order of 1%, and it is supposed to be the Gold Standard. I thought the spit test was supposed to be the cheaper alternative.

124625 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #1397 of 1659 🔗

Boris Johnson faces Tory revolt over new coronavirus restrictions – No scintilla of doubt?


124675 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1398 of 1659 🔗

Waffling there, with hesitation and a tremor in the voice. What a w*nker.

124626 James, replying to James, 33, #1399 of 1659 🔗

Never in the field of human history has so much bullshit been sold to so many by so few.

124628 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to James, 2, #1400 of 1659 🔗

Wise words, well put.

124630 Binra, replying to Binra, 6, #1401 of 1659 🔗

This is an excellent article that brings up the ‘mindspace’ of nudging, framing and messing with your/our mind.

124659 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Binra, 6, #1402 of 1659 🔗

From the above article: ‘So far in 2020, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMFG) have given Imperial College more than $86 million .’ I had no idea it was that much… Wonder if Ferguson got a personal pay-off, and if so, how much?

124695 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Carrie, #1403 of 1659 🔗

He’s bribed every government and institution, someone reckoned he’s spent about $200 billion (?)

124698 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, #1404 of 1659 🔗

I know – I just had no idea that he had given Imperial college quite that much dosh!

124759 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Carrie, #1405 of 1659 🔗

There was a pie chart/wheel type diagram posted a few weeks ago, showing how much money and to which organisations B&MGF have been ‘donating’ to. Certainly an eye opener!

124633 Londo Mollari, 21, #1406 of 1659 🔗

People in two local authority areas of Wales (Merthyr and Rhondda Cynon Taf) have been asked by – among others, police – to wear masks to avoid full local lockdowns in the coming days. When the heck did the police become experts on the science of masks and disease? I suppose it was when they worked out that two biological sexes was not scientific. All care home visits suspended, except for end of life ones, in which case full PPE is required. So, the last thing you see in this life will be a suited up stranger dressed like aliens. Completely inhuman.

124634 reason, replying to reason, 5, #1407 of 1659 🔗

It’s quite hard to get to grips with the data on the Covid Dashboard, whether it’s deliberately obfuscated or not I have no idea however…

It seems the major “uptick” (how I hate that bloody word) occurred on the 1st. September. but bear with me whilst I bore you with some figures!

Using the specimen dates, as opposed to the reported date, we have 1499 cases from 182,065 tests on the 31st. August, a positive rate of 0.82333% whilst on the 1st. September it was 2237 cases from 181,934 tests, a positive rate of 1.22956%.

In percentage terms this is an increase of positive tests in just one day of 49% which seems extraordinary to me.

A relative plateau for positive tests appears to be the case for the last week or so but testing numbers are not available after Sept. 2nd. so it is not possible to do any more comparisons.

Apologies for such a dry post but can these numbers be genuine or has there perhaps been been a tweak to the system?

124654 ▶▶ matt, replying to reason, 1, #1408 of 1659 🔗

I said this yesterday, but, if you are looking at data and it does something like that, your first assumption has to be that the data is wrong. What you then do is eliminate all the possible ways in which your data might be wrong before you make any decision to act on the data.

124672 ▶▶▶ reason, replying to matt, #1409 of 1659 🔗


124680 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, #1410 of 1659 🔗

That’s like the amount of asymptomatic cases too, 72% is a huge amount, no other killer virus or illness has that high an amount of asymptomatic cases, but there is no investigation to see if something is wrong as it very much appears to be.

124701 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to JohnB, #1411 of 1659 🔗

I guess most, if not all, other infectious diseases aren’t routinely tested for to identify asymptomatic cases.

124705 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, #1412 of 1659 🔗

Studies are done into the to determine asymptomatic cases, for example Influenza studies found that there 4-28% of cases which are asymptomatic which is significantly lower the COVID-19.

124737 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to reason, #1413 of 1659 🔗

A good analysis. As for these words “uptick”? “surge” – use increase instead.

124647 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to wendyk, 3, #1415 of 1659 🔗

Cracking stuff. The comments are a joy.

124667 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1416 of 1659 🔗

How do we buy that every state except Sweden have been paid off?

124684 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 2, #1417 of 1659 🔗

The Swedish government has no control over the Public health agency so politicians cannot directly influence measures in the same way that is being done in the UK.

As someone living in Sweden, I have my suspicions that we are being used as a ‘control’ in this experiment, and may be ‘brought into line’ at a later date (although I hope not!)

My suspicions for the possible choice of Sweden as a ‘control’ are that it has a relatively small population and also that the State agencies do hold a lot of personal information on us already (not DNA though). However, thus far there are very tight controls regarding access to data – a rogue person doing too much snooping would be very quickly picked up, as things stand at the moment. But the potential already exists to merge all the information..

124700 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to hotrod, 8, #1418 of 1659 🔗

Belarus was offered IMF and world bank loans if they instituted a Italian style lockdown.The president refused and made it public.He is now facing a colour revolution similar to Ukraine

124713 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1419 of 1659 🔗

Maybe Johnson was offered a similar bribe by the IMF and World Bank, and accepted?

Or, this is a theory from a commenter on the Breitbart article:

‘Boros Moonshot and Handycock both look carefully cultivated by multi billionaire Bill Gates who is desperate to vaccinate the whole world for everything and anything…
Bill Gates has endless millions to spend on pipsqueaks to get what he wants… and Boros Moonshot with approx three wives and eight children is apparently a little short of cash, and probably would love a massively well paid non job in Seattle.. Just like the $6,500,000 non job, incl bonuses, Nick Clegg landed at Facebook appointing Soros compliant individuals to the Facebook compliance board. With a $9,000,000 house in California thrown in. (This is true, I’m not joking!)
Strange coincidence then that Boros Moonshot is doing everything Bill Gates wants……….
Next Moonshot stop by Gates jet…. Seattle !’

124721 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #1420 of 1659 🔗

I wouldn’t mind living in Seattle. It’s a very nice town.

124861 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1421 of 1659 🔗

standard mo

when can we rid ourselves of these evil bastards?

124708 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1422 of 1659 🔗

Yes, for example:

After the covid hoax, the conservative party will no longer be able to say that a vote for us. Means you aren’t letting the insane, magic money tree communist labour party into power.
As the covid hoax, has proven to everyone that the conservative party is now the insane, magic money tree communist party. Who have decided that 2020 was the year for them to go full blown tyrannical with draconian measures on the British people over a sniffle no worse than the flu.’

In another comment, Kamala Harris is referred to as ‘Kameltoe Hairs’ – I’d heard the camel toe bit used before, but not the rest!

124668 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to wendyk, 3, #1423 of 1659 🔗

Excellent article. Met James Delingpole at one of the anti-lockdown protest the only person from a media organisation not masked or keeping 2m away from everyone – a good man.

124740 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to wendyk, 1, #1424 of 1659 🔗

This is the chappy who tried to close down Parliament. We shouldn’t be surprised.

124636 James, 8, #1425 of 1659 🔗

You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you only need to fool most of the people most of the time to bring in a new world order.

Sorry Winston you missed the point.

124639 AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #1426 of 1659 🔗

Covid19 Vaccine: One Hell of a Dose


124643 Howler, replying to Howler, 1, #1427 of 1659 🔗

How do we mobilise to unify our efforts?

124691 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Howler, 3, #1428 of 1659 🔗

Support the protests. Print out leaflets and distribute them in your area.

We really need all organisations to support one another.

124716 ▶▶▶ Howler, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #1429 of 1659 🔗

Point me to the leaflets and I’m in

124714 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Howler, 2, #1430 of 1659 🔗

There may be a group already at work in your area. May take some searching to find them. Where there has been a protest there is a group.

124729 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Basics, 1, #1431 of 1659 🔗

Where there has been a protest there is a group”. Sorry Basics, didn’t read, yes, you are right 😊

124726 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Howler, 2, #1432 of 1659 🔗

I had found it really difficult to find a group in my area, it was very frustrating, if I didn’t have a group of, albeit it small, sceptical friends, I would have gone cheerfully insane! I did meet some lovely people who run a group in my area at the rally on 29th August – people and groups are out there. It would be wonderful if everyone could join together…maybe that day will come?

124656 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jonathan Castro, 4, #1435 of 1659 🔗

Really needs to be well attended to make any difference. I bet there will be a 2 week solid media campaign to demonise anyone who attends these events as ‘granny killers’, ‘anti vaxx’, ‘conspiracy theorists’ etc. They will literally throw everything on every media channel to raise fear and gain complete subservience and obedience from the population.

Based on the last 6 months I think most people will fall for it again, but I pray not.

124673 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1436 of 1659 🔗

Those charts are worth showing to people – especially the one with the green and blue bars showing covid versus non covid deaths..

124867 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1437 of 1659 🔗

There’s something on the 19th too.
Piers Corbyn Birmingham and Leicester this weekend:


124658 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to wendyk, 10, #1439 of 1659 🔗

This is good. Farage has frustratingly been a bit of bedwetter before now. He’s making arguments that we make now.

124669 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #1440 of 1659 🔗

Quite so and it seems that he’ll keep it up now, along with pursuing Mr Blobby on the Withdrawal Agreement.

124679 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #1441 of 1659 🔗

Overall I’m very disappointed with Farage I thought he lead the charge against these fascists.

124681 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 7, #1442 of 1659 🔗

Saw him being interviewed on Talk Radio yesterday. His position on LD was very much like everyone elses at the start because we didnt know what we were dealing with and the pictures coming out of China were pretty grim. BUT, now we have the real world data on the progress of this ‘mass killer’ over the past months, his current views are VERY different and VERY clear. Toby should get him to pen a few words for us on here.

124699 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to T. Prince, 2, #1443 of 1659 🔗

Farage and Young could be a dream ticket

124748 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, 4, #1444 of 1659 🔗

There was a good live interview on Twitter this afternoon with Laurence Fox – he’s also very articulate and could be good to have on board..

124722 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to T. Prince, 3, #1445 of 1659 🔗

I saw that interview, I was impressed – I think it would be a good idea for him to contribute to this site.

124779 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #1446 of 1659 🔗

Kath, I think it would certainly bring more people (converts?) here.

124798 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to wendyk, 2, #1447 of 1659 🔗

A neighbour of mine went to school with Farage. Apparently he was known as plain old Faridge back then. She remembers him, for being a bit obnoxious. So the Fraraaaaj pronounciation came a while later, along with his career.

124676 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 7, #1449 of 1659 🔗

It’s why my mantra is ‘stay human’. The horrid faceless morons we now encounter cannot be described as human.

124697 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to annie, 5, #1450 of 1659 🔗

It’s so difficult to read eyes alone. Without facial expression I tend to see them as beady little points of raging hate. But then, as often as not, a friendly voice comes out with a ‘Good morning.’ It’s difficult to connect the blank beneath the eyes with any but the darkest of human emotions, but important to recognise that under the mask there might be a smile.

124711 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ovis, #1451 of 1659 🔗

Beady they are.

124662 Dave #KBF, 3, #1452 of 1659 🔗

Alan Butterworth is getting wound up, he can see where this is heading

124664 Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 10, #1453 of 1659 🔗

MY 85 year old father-in-law is one of those who is probably going to go private for a much needed knee op (pun not intended…). He has been in a lot of pain for some months and it is very clearly making him very depressed, but there is no hope of an op on the NHS any time soon. He is also awaiting a cataract op. So Boris has saved him from Covid but for what? Either to spend £11,000 to go private for a knee op or an unknown amount of time awaiting one on the NHS.

124677 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 4, #1454 of 1659 🔗

He’s lucky to find a private hospital willing to do any operations.

124724 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #1455 of 1659 🔗

My friend who has been struggling with hip pain right through the pandemic has finally managed to arrange it privately and is having it done next week.

124760 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #1456 of 1659 🔗

He’s lucky to have the money. Many others will have to put up with their pain. I picked up my car from its service today and the service manager was wincing from back pain. Said the operation he needs is delayed by months because of the virus. Persistent pain strains the heart and is dangerous. And yet it is considered preferably to risking Covid. Glad for your father in law though, hope his op goes well.

124665 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 25, #1457 of 1659 🔗

BTL comment in the DT:

Don’t let the b—–ds cancel Christmas. It’ll be dark. Move your guests in the night before, dressed in black so neighbourhood snitches can’t see, let them stay overnight and enjoy your Christmas with the curtains closed. It’ll probably be dull and rainy outside. Buy two small turkeys on separate occasions so no-one’s suspicion is aroused!

124689 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1458 of 1659 🔗

I have no doubt that Boris the Buffoon will ‘cancel’ Christmas. Our payback time for him cancelling Eid

124736 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to T. Prince, 7, #1459 of 1659 🔗

But we lost Easter. In place of the Resurrection we got the risen Johnson.

124770 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Ovis, #1460 of 1659 🔗

Forgot about that!

124843 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, 2, #1461 of 1659 🔗

…which was definitely timed for political purposes..

124666 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 2, #1462 of 1659 🔗


The UN knows that calamitous covid has run amok because of the supremacy of the patriarchy: who’d have guessed?

124685 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to wendyk, #1463 of 1659 🔗

Good article. Yep, men are to blame for everything.

124859 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to wendyk, #1464 of 1659 🔗

Noticed anything similar with the stated aims of BLM – dismantle the patriarchy?

124693 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to hotrod, 5, #1466 of 1659 🔗

£100 billion needlessly spent

124703 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to hotrod, 9, #1467 of 1659 🔗


So in the article “Sage, chaired by Sir Patrick Vallance, the Government chief scientific adviser, warns: “In populations with low prevalence of infection, mass testing… would result in many individuals receiving false positive results.”

And yet Vallance stood silently alongside Boris yesterday, with a straight face, as the PM spewed forth his fantastical moonshot nonsense.

124717 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #1468 of 1659 🔗

As someone mentioned earlier, Patrick Vallance yesterday referred to the ‘epidemic’, NOT ‘pandemic’ – accidental slip of the tongue revealing the truth???

124727 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Carrie, 2, #1469 of 1659 🔗

Pandemic refers to the pattern across multiple countries, whereas epidemic applies to an area or single country, so accurate when talking about the UK. Whether this particular virus now truly merits either label is a different question!

124782 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #1470 of 1659 🔗

To be fair both Whitty and Valance looked very uncomfortable when Moonshot was explained. Both said yesterday that it wasn’t a clear solution. Boris cast both a sharp look at the end.

They don’t believe it will work, clearly.

124847 ▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to hotrod, 3, #1471 of 1659 🔗

But they are still party to all this. If they don’t believe it will work then that just makes it worse. And why would anyone want to be fair to Whitty and Valance?

Along with the blond clown these people are in the process of destroying thousands of peoples lives.

124862 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #1472 of 1659 🔗

When will they stop giving everything names worthy of the nursery? Bubbles, moonshot, Hands Face Space everyone! It’s nauseating.

124719 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to hotrod, 4, #1473 of 1659 🔗

Excellent. Quite apart from all the other reasons why this is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever come across, the false positive “problem”, as explained here, kills it off immediately. I like it! I bet Wankock and Fat Head are still pressing ahead with it, though.

124764 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1474 of 1659 🔗

It seems that they are still in search of a ‘magic bullet’ to solve a problem that doesn’t exist outside the fevered imaginations of the ‘lockdown’ zealots.

124858 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 1, #1475 of 1659 🔗

The strategy, costing £100 million, was defended by Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary (see video below), in the face of guffaws in the Commons over his insistence that the programme – promising to produce results in 20 to 90 minutes and still requiring untested technology – was feasible.


124710 annie, replying to annie, 26, #1476 of 1659 🔗

I know a Covid marshal who
Lurks in a town near me;
He bullies folks from morn till night,
None nastier than he.
And this the essence of his task
As Boris tells to me:
He will spare nobody, no, not he,
Who cares for liberty.

The reason why he loves his job
Is easy to surmise:
He is a nasty, brainless yob
Whom all good folk despise.
To strut and gloat and throw his weight
Is joy to such as he:
He will spare nobody, no, not he,
Who cares for liberty.

So let us his example fear,
And from town centres flee;
Where faceless morons crawl about
And Covid marshals be –
But plan revenge, and then come out,
Bare-faced and bold and free
And deal with every Covid lout
Who shames humanity.

124745 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to annie, 3, #1477 of 1659 🔗

Annie, our Lockdown Bard!
Thank you.

124718 Nobody2020, 5, #1478 of 1659 🔗

I’m pretty impressed with the amateur sleuthing that can be found on Twitter. Could this help to explain why some countries stats are better than others (links within links here). Logically identifying actual cases helps you focus resources in the right places too:


this is an interesting story. uruguay developed its own PCR test and used <35 cycles for detection (1/64th the amplification in the US) so is this a success in suppressing virus or just a test that does not pick up so many minor/trace infections and has fewer false positives?

Also this from a story back in June:


Taiwan: “Only samples with a CT value under 35 are considered positive in Taiwan, while those over 32 are unlikely to be contagious, Chuang said.”

124723 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 27, #1479 of 1659 🔗

Just want to say AARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. This week has been fecking mental. Really feels like we have entered a weird parallel universe. When we this madness ever end?

124725 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tommo, 10, #1480 of 1659 🔗

Unfortunately, it seems like only a revolution would change things now. This looks like a one way street to dystopia to me.

124744 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tommo, 6, #1481 of 1659 🔗

This week has been hard for me too, more insanity, it’s never ending. I have reached another level recently…Not sure where I am yet…

124810 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1482 of 1659 🔗

I’m guessing the same level as your sceptical acquaintances…it’s a comin’. The one thing I’ve watched like a hawk (from April) is the comments left on various pieces in the good old Torygiraffe (Janet Daley, Cherelle Jacobs, Micheal Deacon, Allison Pearson, Allister Heath and of course Toby Young…there is another sceptical writer, can’t recall his name)… my point being is that, in April Mr and Mrs middle England, middle of the road we’re a bit peeved in April, now many are calling for rioting and all that comes with that. Massive sea change.

124820 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Kath Andrews, 6, #1483 of 1659 🔗

To note, I was there on 29th August and I met many people who said that they would never have thought they would do ‘anything like this’, many who said ‘I’ve never been on any sort of protest before’ – and such like. The people know something is off and they are fighting back – I do believe they are, this has all been too quick to be remotely plausible.

124923 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Kath Andrews, #1484 of 1659 🔗

20 days to go until the money stops. This is going to be a wake up call for the sheeple. No more job. no more money in the bank at the end of October. No more savings by Xmas. Thousands in debt by January, payday loans in February, Repossession of property in March.

Ouch. About 9 million people right?