2020-09-15

First!

By a country mile.

“‘Covid-19′” – please note the use of quotation marks – is a disease that doesn’t exist. It is an umbrella term for death from other causes that have been designated to give the impression of the existence of a virulent plague.”
Covid-19 in a nutshell

Exactly. I try to explain to the sheep that the common cold is a “covid” (coronavirus identified) but it doesn’t seem to sink in.

Does anyone else think that if we lived in a normal world, the public would be able to go face to face with these people making such big decisions on our behalf and call them to account?

Why are these people only ever coddled by the BBC, SKY etc?

Let’s put Hancock in front of people who’ve suffered and see him defend his policies.
It’s crazy how protected they are when making such massive changes to an entire country!

How about putting him in front of the families of all those his policies have killed

How about putting Hancock and Johnson in front of a firing squad. They are both guilty of treason, as well as murder.

Yes, like have these people walk among us not bunkered in behind layers upon layers of security

I think that has an effect on their mentality and policy.

Simply picturing the scene of matt hancock in a regular locals pub talking through his plans and having general pleasant chat makes it clear something isn’t right.

Exactly. In the days when the King had to advance in the vanguard of his troops, war was seldom declared. When the politicians ( and their sons ) never walk onto the battlefield, it’s much easier to go to war.

Indeed, though I remember a time when at least some journalists would give politicians a hard time about the real issues, journalists and politicians on both sides of a given issue.

This time round, there has been no debate because they all accepted, or pretended, for various reasons that there was/is an emergency akin to wartime during which debate should take second place to “fighting” the virus. Even if the virus represented an unprecedented threat, which it doesn’t, it’s really stupid to treat the challenge as some kind of battle that requires merely sacrifice and grit and doesn’t require an intellint, reasoned approach.

The only thing Hancock should be in front of is a firing squad.

Please pick me please pick me please pick me

I’ll do it and won’t even charge petrol money if you add in Johnson, Whitty and Vallance.

Oh yes!

And Cumming!! Especially Cumming! And Gove.

too humane. Should be socially distanced: two metres of rope from the top of a lamp-post.

Too bloody good for him. He should spend the rest of his worthless life in jail. Muzzled of course.

In solitary isolation.

Sorry, I didn’t see your reply and posted something similar above.

He can’t even manage a radio interview without stuttering

Should be done in public in Parliament Square

The only answer to everything is to change public EXPECTATION :
Vis : To Expect to elect POLICY : not persons / ‘ parties ‘ ( sic );
To EXPECT to ( nominate and ) APPOINT SACKABLE facilitators of THE POLICY
elected ;
On the terms and conditions SET by their EMPLOYER, the PUBLIC .

IE : NOT TO EXPECT ‘the vice versa .

Let’s cut to the chase rather than engage in all this fannying about.

Hancock needs to be put on trial, found guilty, and disposed of. Like a good many others.

Building the “coronahoax” charge sheet: reckoning culpability for the deliberate inflation of Covid-19 death

Don’t forget Johnson he has to go.

Especially Hancock would crumble like baking parchment near a lit match.
Lets take bets when he will start to cry, cower in a corner and cry “mummy, I never wanted to become a politician…”

I note the story yesterday of the police cautioning mothers for organising a tea party of more than six children

A caution is a criminal conviction. You cannot have a caution recorded against you unless you consent. In effect you are pleading guilty to the allegation. As on this occasion this is said to involve the alleged safety of children this is a serious matter

If you accept a caution in these circumstances it is likely that you never ever be able to get a job working with children, or as a carer, etc

Many police officers (not all) con people into accepting a caution by using such terms as ‘it’s not a conviction” It will be dealt with quicker this way” “you won’t have to go to court” “just sign here and it’s dealt with” etc

It’s a simpler administrative procedure for the police

Is cautioning their new policy?

If you refuse a caution the police can issue you with a Fixed Penalty Notice of 30 quid

If you pay it. it is not a conviction, you will be able to work with children etc

There are currently 10,000 plus contested FPN’s waiting to go to court. Not one has proceeded to court. The government for some reason seem a bit shy in taking these contested cases to court

It would take a court up to 43 years to hear them all

Go figure

Would getting one to court be a possible way to break the spell? If the gov don’t want it tested perhaps that’s a reason to test it.

I’ve been trying for 6 months. Only result so far, an FPN for my wife.

I’ve had a brief reflection on this. Genuinely good luck to you. Takes a bit of courage to take that on.

My evil self fancies the chance to educate some magistrates. And possibly even get into the local rag.

Plus I want to be able to wave my conviction at my grandkids in 20 years time, when they ask me what I did.

Good point. However, once the the fine is contested the onus is on the Crown Prosecution Service to instigate proceedings.

It is open to them to just sit on their hands ( I suspect they have had that instruction from above)

At six months from the date of the offence ‘Limitations On Proceedings’ kicks in and the matter is void

It’s likely that LOP applies to some of the notices issued at the start of this nonsense

Note: I am not qualified to give legal advice, but lets just say I’ve been round the block a few times

Possibly not a technical use of the word ‘caution’, Cecil. They might just have ticked them off.

That would be a ‘verbal warning’ not a caution

Trust me I know what I’m talking about

If they gave a VW, but told the press it was a caution, it’s a lie and just more propaganda

They probably gave a verbal warning, or some ‘education’, and the press fulfilled their current function.

You’re not surprised they’re spreading untrue propaganda, Cecil ?

No I’m not, but it’s an important point. Were they given a VW or were they cautioned?

It’s the difference between having a conviction and not having a conviction

If they were not cautioned, who decided to say that they were?

Iirc it’s straightforward defamation to say someone has a conviction when they don’t.

The Police would not use the word Caution unless they meant just that.

You’re ruling out the totally absurd notion that our wonderful media might be bending the truth just a weeny bit?

You say, “ A caution is a criminal conviction”. Not so:

From: https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty#:~:text=A caution is not a,Barring Service (DBS) checks.

“ Cautions Cautions are given to anyone aged 10 or over for minor crimes – for example writing graffiti on a bus shelter.
You have to admit an offence and agree to be cautioned. You can be arrested and charged if you don’t agree.
A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.”

Please try and stick to the facts.

For the enhanced DBS it still appears and must be declared.
See https://policecautions.uk/police-caution-procedure/
https://policecautions.uk/2017/01/31/how-long-does-a-police-caution-stay-on-your-record/

From Gov website
Introduction

Your criminal record includes all:

• cautions given by the police
• convictions given at court

You might be asked about your criminal record when you apply for:

• a job
• education or training
• insurance

Will 77 regt trolls please butt out

I’m keeping an eye on the park that we overlook. For the past few weeks on a Tuesday (market day here), there have been groups of elderly people congregating (obviously up to no good) so will check to see if the rozzers break up any gangs of over 6!

the Batley Townswomen guild are still safe then ,, only 6 of them

ha ha, that’s it exactly …

Got to keep a close eye on those pensioner gangs. It starts with unruly zimmer frame use, but unchecked it ends up with gang fights over the bingo results….

Oh yes. And the ringleader, Gladys, is particularly fearsome. Got the rozzers on speed-dial!

A: how do you get a granny to say Fuck?
A: get another one to shout BINGO!
I’ll get me coat…

I would lose my security clearance and not be allowed to work in schools either as it would be on my DBS check certificate if I was cautioned for something as stupid as this.

Have to be careful with all these loose cannon Police Officers at the moment, they don’t know the law and you can quickly end up with a caution that could ruin your career. Even if it is a mistake and rescinded I do not believe they are removed from your criminal record, we had a guy who worked with us who got cautioned because he intervened to break up a fight, he appealed and it was rescinded but when he was DBS checked he lost his job as it was still on his criminal record. The employer fired him because he hadn’t disclosed it when they employed him and it meant that he couldn’t work for the customers that require DBS checked staff.

For the police to issue a caution then the offence has to be admitted to. It may only be offered by a police officer of sergeant or above or the CPS. If you need an enhanced DBS check then you must declare it as the rehabilitation of offenders act does not apply (the non-enhanced DBS doesn’t include it).
It is up to your employer to decide whether it bars you from working with children, vulnerable people etc.
I would have thought it unlikely to affect security clearance.
https://policecautions.uk/police-caution-procedure/

Always remember the process is the punishment.

Anyone with the temerity to stand up for themselves or disagree with one of the states enforcers will have their life ruined, even if eventually not guilty, you will be made to jump through hoops and permanently banned from certain occupations.

Looking at these blasted Regs the enforcement of the requirement is exercised by a relevant person (police, police community support -NB it doesn’t look like the Covid wombles can be designated a relevant person in relation to gatherings). first port of call for relevant person is to direct the gathering to disperse. Only if you point blank refuse without a reasonable excuse do you commit an offence and then only if you are over 18. You should then be given an option of a FPN (which unless you are an organiser or facilitator of a large gathering 30+ and none of the quite long list of exceptions apply when it is £10k) if £100 reduced to £50 if paid early. If you are already owner of FPN, the amount doubles for each successive FPN. You have 28 days to pay.

according to CRB direct website, it is very unlikely that FPNs would appear on standard DBS and only on enhanced if you have a slew of them.

in relation to cautions, the police are required to explain the implications. They’ve also got to give you time to think about and get advice. You have to give written consent. Cautions are spent immediately but not if applying for job where standard or enhanced DBS is required.

A caution also counts as a Sanctioned Detection for the Officer.
ie detected a crime, solved it, got a result.
Counts toward achieving his target same as if it was a burglary.

Anybody remember the Police blogger Inspector Gadget who told of things within the Met Police before being capriciously ousted by Times reporter?

He wrote a guide to dealing with the Police
for Gentle Folk (that’s you and me).
I will be posting it right here in full at about 16.00 today.

I remember. It was Lancashire Police though wasn’t it?

Good points, no one should accept a caution or a fixed penalty. Demand your day in court.

Mixed emotions on the school run this morning. My 9 year old says daddy what is the point of play time?

Me: What do you mean?

Son: Well we cant play with balls incase we touch them, we cant play it because we cant touch each other, we cant play hide and seek as the teachers need to see us at all times and the daily mile running we used to do has been stopped as we cant socially distance as we run.

Me: That is ridiculous, I will email the head to let him know my thoughts.

Son: Nah dont bother, we just ignore the rules and play it & hide and seek anyway.

It makes me happy that a bunch of 8/9 year olds arent too scared of the virus to break the rules – but on the other hand according to Handycock & the BBC i will be dead in a couple of weeks so better get my affairs in order…..

Well done your lad and his mates. Put most adults to shame.

Great to hear about sceptical children. When I was in primary school they tried to ban conkers but we still did it anyway.

And then there was all that banned smoking going on behind the bike shed.

All kids should ignore these stupid and inhumane rules: as minors, there’s nothing much the law can really do to them, and the worst that can happen is that they get kicked out of the school. …A school where they’re essentially psychologically abused and brainwashed.

Well done to your son and his friends. More power to their elbow!

Brilliant post…..It’s stories like this that temper my resolve to NEVER acquiesce to any of this Psychological warfare. THIS is what gives me hope and determination

Sorry to hear this, I’m a primary teacher and can assure you this is not the experience everywhere, my school is nothing like this! Ridiculous and nasty way to treat children.

Just to highlight how utterly ridiculous Pillar 2 Test Results are becoming….PHE’s own Weekly Surveillance Report now showing Pillar 2 commercial lab confirmed Test Results running at 8-9% positivity in >85 Year olds. Total joke. See graphs at the bottom of page 7.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916993/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_37_FINAL.pdf

Ivor Cummins excellent 8 Sept video
Nearing 700k views
Brilliant clear analysis of what is happening using official government data.

https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac

Last repost from me.

Where can I get the latest deaths and hospitalisation data for local areas, please?

Here ‘s the hospitalization data for my “region”. For other regions and data (e.g. deaths) use the menus on the left hand side. I don’t know where you find data that’s a bit more local than that, and would also be interested in finding out.

Thank you. I’m in the North East – the death stats are for my region and they show a handful of deaths over the last month. The hospitalisations stats are thrown in with Yorkshire.
Multicultural, densely populated towns and cities in Yorkshire are going to have a serious skewing effect on those stats for County Durham and Northumberland making them meaningless.

Sandra Durham – Facebook

Wash your hands regularly – the government has taken care of your brain.

#JohnsonMustGo

Is trending on twitter. Actually don’t know precisely what that means but it seems good.

Masterful tweetage by Simon Dolan:

The last person in the UK to cancel Xmas was Oliver Cromwell.

After he died (from natural causes), he was dug up, hanged, decapitated, and had his head placed on a spike in London on display for the next 20 years.

Over to you @MattHancock

Hancock won’t die from natural causes. He’ll accidentally step into sunshine, or be sprinkled with holy water, and crumble into dust on the spot.

Anyone living in London should carry a clove of garlic, just in case they happen to meet him.

And don’t forget the crucifix as well.

Make sure that when you meet up for your fully legal shooting party that you have silver bullets available in case you spot a Hancock hiding in the hedgerow

I was going to suggest silver bullets as an afterthought – that way we’d achieve something even if he is (surprisingly) not one of the undead.

Christmas is the last national unifying festival we have left.Touch it at your peril.Banning grandma from Christmas dinner is not a good career move

Back in the 50’s and no doubt before that if a child in the neighbourhood started to show symptoms of measles ( a killer disease which could cause blindness and deafness), the mothers would get together and organize what was called a “Measles party” and all the local kids got together at said party to get it over with as quickly as possible:ie: herd immunity.
Obviously a drastic measure but it worked as proved by the extremely large numbers of old f**ts like me making nuisances of themselves and constantly moaning about everything.
But seriously why are a lot of people agreeing with this utter madness destroying all our lives over a mild (especially among the young) illness.

Why wait till our buggers are dead?

To do with the Brexit issue.The vague concept of international law is more important to these people than their liberties

Yes. Notable that the Remain Conservative Party is prepared to kick off over the denunciation of an unacceptable ‘deal’ that was made in the first place only because the Remain Conservative Party insisted upon it, but they are not prepared to do more than chunter over the destruction of basic human rights and liberties. The party is a waste of political oxygen. And yet Tobes seems quite taken with them this morning. Has he been got at?

All the people supporting this #JohnsonMustGo you can damn well bet, if you check, are the hardcore COVID-19 zealots who are following everything Johnson says to the letter.

Bojo Delenda Est

Is that right? We don’t have none of them fancypants classicist schools round these parts.

Karen has a new friend.

Appropriate summary?

Stay Afraid, Control the People, Save Dictators.

Woo, first sighting of my meme being used by someone else – makes me so happy!

https://rationalground.com/why-mass-pcr-testing-of-the-healthy-and-asymptomatic-is-currently-counter-productive/

A very good article from US about testing. They recommend 34 as a cut off and that lab should report the Ct needed for reporting as positive. India has obviously adapted to this and require Ct on all PCR tests reported as positive.

Health Freedom – Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Children’s Health Defense

We say “No!” Mandating an invasive medical procedure violates our most fundamental rights. All medical procedures, including vaccines, carry risks; they must be voluntary.

And vaccine injuries aren’t rare – they’re approximately 1 in every 40 doses, according to a U.S. Agency for Health Research Quality 2010 study.

We stand for your rights — and ours – including your right to consent. But know this:

• No federally-recommended vaccine has ever been tested against a real placebo. Vaccines are tested against other vaccines or vaccine ingredients, masking harm. And the government has never tested the entire childhood schedule in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children.
• Vaccines are typically tested for days or weeks, not years, like drugs.
• Government agencies charged with vaccine safety are, in essence, vaccine companies, owning patents and earning royalties. They are sock puppets of industry.
• Mainstream media heavily censors information critical of vaccines. The vaccine companies spend billions every year in advertising revenue to the big media companies in our country, and they’re not only buying ad space, they are dictating content.
• It’s important to know you can’t sue a vaccine manufacturer for a vaccine injury or death. Instead, you have to go through a government claims program where most people lose. Vaccine makers get all the profits, but the injured get all the losses — physical, mental, emotional and financial.
• COVID-19 vaccines have received billions in government subsidy and private money. These vaccines have become “too big to fail,” even though the clinical trials have been disasters.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/community-and-world-united-we-say-no/

The Children’s Health Defense is doing amazing work ! I just posted about their court case against Facebook censorship.

vaccine injuries aren’t rare – they’re approximately 1 in every 40 doses, according to a U.S. Agency for Health Research Quality 2010 study.

No, that is not what that report says. That figure is for “possible reactions”, for which the report says

35,570 possible reactions (2.6 percent of vaccinations) were identified.

In fact, the report does not mention the word “injury” at all. In this context, a “possible reaction” is not the same thing as a “reaction”, and a “reaction” is not the same thing as an “adverse event”, which is defined as “ any health problem that happens after a shot or other vaccine” whether or not caused by the vaccination. An “adverse event” is not the same as “vaccine injury” which is a legal term covering health problems caused by vaccination so serious as to merit compensation.

Quoting a “possible reaction” figure as a “vaccine injury” figure is simply dishonest.

A study from 2010 is out of date. Vaccine injuries have risen exponentially as pharmaceutical companies have lobbied successfully to increase the number of vaccines given simultaneously for children , which cause dangerous interactions with each other.

That’s hardly the point. This 2010 report is the report apparently cited by Kennedy and it was cited dishonestly.

If “cases” are possible infections ……

The dictatorship plants stories about the decriminlisation of the non payment of the TV licence fee, and the taxing of satellite TV

Then people wonder why these organisations pump out only pro regime propaganda

Keep up folks

Retail news site reporting that masks are not good for business. Who knew!!

“Retail footfall to be negatively impacted, while face masks remain mandatory in stores”

– As face coverings are expected to remain compulsory until Covid-19 has been significantly suppressed, consumers’ reluctance to visit stores will inevitably lead to weakened footfall for the foreseeable future, contributing towards the UK physical retail market’s forecast decline of 8.6% in 2020.

https://www.retail-insight-network.com/comment/retail-footfall-face-masks-mandatory-stores/

Totally predictable

Not been in a shop since February. Clothing cost last year £775 this £0. Dining out £1100 (2019) £80 (2020).

This nonsense will only stop when the board of directors sees the bottom line of their interim results. Unfortunately, if they are bed-wetters, they will also need someone to inform them that things would be different if they were more sensible, and that may never happen.

In which case, they will get what’s coming to them (apologies to their honourable and hard-working staff who will be severely-impacted by redundancy).

YouGov surveys doesn’t even seem to be asking the right questions. They say, ability to socially distance is most important when buying cloths. While it would be true for some of the shoppers, YouGov doesn’t seem to have asked anything about masks/restrictions in shops.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/consumer/articles-reports/2020/09/14/how-has-covid-19-impacted-shopping-habits

Not been in a supermarket or other shop since the mask mandate. My overall spending has fallen 20% since. Good for me, bad for the economy.

But why would I subject myself to any extra dystopian experiences? The bus is bad enough, but I consider my allotment an essential activity, and one that’s more pleasant than shopping.

What do they suggest should be done?
Just lie down and die?

How none of the businesses saw this coming is staggering.

As I’ve said many times, I’ve despaired at the cowardice of the High Street in kowtowing to the government’s so-called “Covid safety” diktat with some even going one step further which made shopping such a joyless and dystopian experience. Who would want to go into shops where you’re treated like a leper?

If the businesses don’t get their act together I won’t be surprised when they finally go bust.

Duh…

Your article about cafes is spot-on. Two weeks ago, I went into the local Starbucks and a more soulless place could not be imagined. I changed my order to a takeaway.

Yesterday, I went into a cafe and the manageress (wearing a mask, of course) held up her hand to block me, shouting “Stay outside, there’s already one person in here!” I walked outside and was puzzled to see an empty table. Looking back into the cafe, I shouted to the owner “It’s alright, you’ve made your decision and I respect it; I’ll go away”. Her demeanour immediately changed to a panicky “There’s a table outside!” but I am not accustomed, at my advanced age, to having a member of staff holding up her hand to block me when I wish to become a customer. I replied again “It’s alright, you’ve made your decision! I completely respect your decision; goodbye!”

As I said yesterday, I wonder who will benefit most long-term; her with that attitude, or me with my money still in my pocket?

Well done for voting with your feet.

Interesting how the word “please” seems to have disappeared in public life.

It’s almost as if they’re softening us up for something.

We are slaves. You don’t say ‘please’ to a slave unless you are a decent person, which is rare these days.

Unfortunately good customer service has gone out of the window since this madness started.

There’s no “almost” about it, but I pretty sure you know that already.

This is what annoys me, me and OH have elected not to go out which saddens me as in normal times whilst not living an extravagant life we would go to the pub after work for a drink, or a pint or 2 on a Saturday afternoon or save up and have a nice meal.

We might be cutting off our nose to spite our face but as far as I can see there is no fun to be had and no spontaneity. Maybe it’s a regional thing but north of the border things are pretty dier.

My colleague had a weekend away recently in Stirling and she said the same, her and her hubby had to queue to go to a wetherspoon and then couldn’t find a table as there were 2 of them so why bother.

In Scotland face coverings are compulsory in pubs and restaurants when people are not either eating or drinking. Ludicrous.

We keep asking why, surely these companies can see they are losing trade and quite frankly treating people like shit is not a good business model.

I feel similar. I used to enjoy going out for the occasional pub lunch with the family, but we’re absolutely refusing to do it so long as the insistence on taking details is in place. The thought of having to self-isolate – with three children under six at home! – because someone else who was there “tested positive” is madness.

Always pay cash, don’t social distance, never wear a mask, give fake names.

Always; I transpose two digits of my phone number, and only give my first name. I never bother with unsocial distancing unless I move back out of politeness to bed-wetters. I try to pay cash most of the time.

All of these tolerations depend entirely on the person to whom I am talking; if I like a staff member who is only doing what they’ve been forced to do, then maybe OK. Security staff or management, no latitude.

Sam Smiths’ emporiums only take cash.

There’s plenty of stupidity south of the border, many pubs and cafes near home are now becoming places to avoid. Also in Wales last week on holiday, the landlord of the pub we normally use was watching over customers as they signed in and insisting on hand sanitising being used under his watchful eye. Myself and wife declined his hearty welcome and went on our way.

Brilliant!

Let’s hope she’s kicking herself for that lost sale.

Well done! Voting with our feet and wallet is the only way these people will wake up.

I’ve gone in a Starbucks once since the madness began and that’s because I’ve got a bit of money left on their app. Happily, they didn’t challenge me or my exemption card. Couldn’t understand the poor woman at the register since her mask muffled her voice. Bought a cookie and sat there with the one other indoor patron. They’re not getting new revenue from me, just giving me what I’ve already paid for.

Not been to Starbucks or Costa since this madness began. I’d happily support independents but if its a chain I would rather go to Caffe Nero or Paul’s – the branches I’ve been to have staff who have treated me like a human being rather than Typhoid Mary

Coffee #1 has been very relaxed and almost normal. Went to the same one twice the other day, didn’t want to do the Track and Trace smartphone thing, but you can write details on the back of a receipt instead and put it in a box. The second time, I said I’d already done it that day and they were happy with that – might be a strategy to use!

That’s a good idea. Or pretend to write something and put it in the box.

I think this is great. It gives non-chain cafes a chance to claw back customers.
Big corporations are first and foremost covering their asses legally.
Mom and pop places only have themselves to answer to and can take “risks” – i.e. just act normally. Those who do will benefit.

Those of you feeling unwilling to go out, give it a try. We had a lovely meal at The Old House at Home pub in Burton, off of J18 of the M4 on the way from Hertfordshire to Cornwall today. Apart from taking our details for track and trace it was as normal, no masks on customers or staff, no nasty signs, excellent service and delicious food.

In today’s spectator…..

“Interestingly the Public Health England explanation of the methods for counting cases is as follows:

‘If a person has both a negative and a positive test, then only their positive test will be counted.

An asymptomatic person who tested positive could have two confirmatory negative tests, but would still count as a confirmed case. But in Wales, data is deduplicated on 42-day episodes; if someone is tested twice, 43 days apart, they will be included in the case count measure twice.”

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-does-a-case-of-covid-19-really-mean-

Most normal people would just think the tests are garbage but not the government.

Most ‘normal’ people seem to believe the government for some reason or other. MW

What criterion for ‘normal, can we adopt in these insane times?

Not sure, Annie, I suspect that we’ll have to settle for being considered ‘abnormal’ – it certainly feels like that sometimes. Once again, I’m very relieved to get on here and, at least mostly, feel that I haven’t completely lost my remaining marbles MW

Covid is the gift that keeps on giving. Not remotely surprised they are counting False Positives confirmed as negative, as positive.

Every day Johnson is presented with clearer opportunities to call a halt to this insanity; the question that has to be asked is whether his failure to take said opportunities is evidence of incompetence, cowardice, malice or a deeply malign combination of the three.

Or something more sinister…

I commented there in detail, it’s an interesting exercise in Bayesian probability. The important points are that the false negative rate is much higher than the false positive rate, and that in the population at large the true positive rate is very low

Executive summary. Designating the result of a positive test followed by a negative test as positive is mainly right when there is reason to believe that population being tested has a large proportion of positives (for example people who have been exposed). As a test for the the population as a whole — for example in the “moonshot” mass testing programme — this is simply wrong. When the true positives form such a small proportion of the population under test, almost all such test results are false positive and should be designated as negative.

Thank you for your clear and objective analysis. Would you dare to put an estimation as to the FPR at the moment in the UK? Obviously it isn’t running at the 90% it would be if everyone was being tested but would you suspect it would be greater or less than 40%?

If you mean the false positive and false negative rates on a test, I’m taking it as 2% and roughly 30% respectively, based on a GOS report. The evidential value of a positive result for an individual depends on the percentage of true positives in the population.

For the population as a whole, ONS data suggests about 0.2%. Hence the evidential value of a positive test is based on 0.02 times 0.998 = 2% for false positive results from true negative samples, and 0.70 times 0.002 = 0.14% for true positive results from true positive samples. So the total positive rate is 2.14% of which true positives contribute 0.14% or a proportion of 14/214 = 6.5%. Hence on this basis some 93% of positive test results are incorrect.

On the other hand, suppose that you’re testing people who have some reason to believe they are positive: say those who are exposed or showing uncertain symptoms. Suppose that 25% of the people are true positive. Then the same calculation gives the evidential value of a positive test based on 0.02 times 0.75 = 1.5% for false positive results from true negative samples, and 0.70 times 0.25 = 17.5% for true positive results from true positive samples. So the total positive rate is 19% of which true positives contribute 18% or a proportion of 18/19 = 95%. Hence on this basis some 5% of positive test results are incorrect.

One of the points here is that the evidential value of a positive result (probability that the positive test result is indeed from a positive sample) depends hugely on the assumed proportion of positive cases in the population you’re testing.

YouTube Censors Think Tank For Disagreeing With WHO

This is a clear case of a social media company dangerously giving out medical advice. They are telling you which medical organizations are right and which are wrong. They are again pretending to be the experts on experts.

Social media is basically the user generated MSM arm these days.

Yeah, well, people were all for social media censorship when it was about “Russian meddling”.

The problem is that on the whole people are stupid and can’t think through the consequences of things they demand.

In respect of the WHO mask wearing nonsense

BBC Medical Correspondent Deborah Cohen’s tweet of the 12th July 2020 should tell you all you need to know.

“We had been told by various sources WHO committee reviewing the evidence had not backed masks but they recommended them due to political lobbying. This point was put to WHO who did not deny”

But no confirmed sources, so means jack!

She said she was protecting her sources because of confidentiality. Not an implausible thing, given the likelihood of severe career damage for anyone who goes off narrative in such an organisation.

Still means jack though if no one comes forwards, and it’s the BBC which no one trusts anything about what they say, so why trust them on this just because it fits what we want to hear?

I agree it’s a shame there’s not more evidence. Cohen is pretty sceptical I think, did some good work exposing the local lockdown shambles (extra testing, no-one ill etc.).

it’s the BBC which no one trusts anything about what they say

If only.

Well the WHO previously did not recommend masks at all, I believe there are still videos on line of them saying, basically, they are not recommended for healthy people, they are not effective against a virus, may risk you spreading bacteria, etc.
https://www.businessinsider.com/who-no-need-for-healthy-people-to-wear-face-masks-2020-4?r=US&IR=T
The source of their U-turn is obviously still a mystery.

Got a friend in California who has been told explicitly that wearing face masks will likely make matters worse with smoke & nasties in the air & offer absolutely zero protection…so how they’re supposed to help with covid-19 is a little bit of a mystery still to many of us.

I am not in California, but the propaganda I’ve heard is that the particles resulting from the wildfires are reeeeeeeeeally small, smaller than a virus, so those useful cloth masks do not help. I’m surprised the fabled precautionary principle hasn’t kicked in, but it may be that someone is genuinely worried about getting sued for bad advice in this case.

Our own government said they were useless many times until some bellend in No10 decided the reason the high street was dead and that muzzles would save the day.

Only knob heads believe they do anything.

Maybe you should open your own virus lab and instead of hermetically sealed positive air pressure suits you can wear an bandana.

We do need a thinning out of the clinically stupid.

Is the tweet still up? Can you provide a link?

Not sure but I have a screenshot on my FB page

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10158261285259961

Thanks! That was enough to go. The tweet is still up:

https://twitter.com/deb_cohen/status/1282244773030633473

She also says it at the end of this Newsnight article.

https://youtu.be/Bw51IudGNb8

I signed this petition recently to “Prevent any restrictions on those who refuse a Covid-19 vaccination” at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442 . It now has over 124,000 signatures. Today I received the government response to the petition. It states: “There are currently no plans to place restrictions on those who refuse to have any potential Covid-19 vaccine”.
I feel compelled to respond to this with this response: “I do not feel reassured by this response given that at the moment many many adults, babies and children are being refused treatment from the NHS if they refuse to take a COVID test. So you may say that a COVID test is not mandatory currently but without it treatment is being refused. So can you reassure me that this will never be the case for a COVID vaccine please?”.
You can still sign this petition if you feel you agree with it’s sentiment. If you have signed it already and wish to respond yourselves to the government response you can do so at https://petition.parliament.uk/feedback or you can email your comments to petitionscommittee@parliament.uk

Laura, you are not alone. Several posts on the previous day’s page about this, expressing concern. Thanks for the heads-up regarding feedback.

Great post. Agree

I also thought the response was disingenuous to say the least. Like others, I have submitted to the consultation, keeping a copy, so they cannot deny their actions at a later stage when it all goes belly up.

Yes, I signed and saw the response too. They covered their ass half-way down though:

There are currently no plans to introduce a Covid-19 vaccine in a way that penalises those who do not take up the vaccine. However, the Government will carefully consider all options to improve vaccination rates, should that be necessary .

All options are still on the table, including coercion.

They also mention this:

All vaccines used in the UK are thoroughly tested, meet strict safety criteria and are carefully monitored after they are introduced into the national programme

However, they don’t mentions that they currently have a consultation going on to use unlicensed vaccines, should Handcock decide this is a good idea:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu

I found the quote in full quite eye opening on a number of points.

“After clean water, vaccination is the most effective and crucial public health intervention, and a cornerstone of public health that we must not take for granted. It is vital that a significant proportion of people who are offered take up a Covid-19 vaccine in order to protect themselves as well as other vulnerable individuals. Averting a second wave is a key priority for the government and high take up of a vaccine when available will greatly contribute to that.”

Not sure that clean water and vaccines are even in the same league of health care interventions, given only one disease has been eradicated in the course of vaccines history.

“Immunisations save thousands of lives every year by preventing outbreaks of serious infectious diseases and, in cases such as smallpox and polio, eliminating diseases in the UK altogether. Since the introduction of the measles vaccine in 1968, it is estimated that 20 million cases and 4,500 deaths have been averted in the UK. From 1970 to 2017, it is estimated that rubella vaccination has averted 1,300 babies being born with congenital rubella syndrome and 25,000 terminations. With further innovation and the development of new vaccines, even more lives could be saved.”

Interesting that they compare now a coronavirus against other dissimilar viruses, would be better to compare accurately against the flu jab programme that has been running for years? Also, those numbers are hardly jaw-dropping successes in my opinion, trivial numbers over the time frame, and possible improvements to modern medicines and treatments would have achieved similar results (impossible to know)

“We believe it is everyone’s responsibility to do the right thing for their own health, and for the benefit of the wider community. There are currently no plans to introduce a Covid-19 vaccine in a way that penalises those who do not take up the vaccine. However, the Government will carefully consider all options to improve vaccination rates, should that be necessary.”

“We believe it is everyone’s responsibility to do the right thing for their own health” blatantly not true as I have to kowtow to the Government’s latest mandates or risk fines I can ill-afford or face being ostracised from my peers and the community.

The UK has a world class national immunisation programme which is constantly reviewed and updated to reflect the changing nature of infectious diseases and provide the best protection for the public. All vaccines used in the UK are thoroughly tested, meet strict safety criteria and are carefully monitored after they are introduced into the national programme. Our evidence-based immunisation programmes are informed by the advice of our work leading expert committee – the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI), which reviews a wide range of scientific and other evidence, keeping the vaccine schedule safe and relevant.

Immunisation offers everyone a chance at a healthy life from the earliest beginnings and into old age. It saves millions of lives every year and is widely recognised as one of the world’s most successful and cost-effective health interventions. High uptake of a Covid-19 vaccine is the best way we have, to protect our health, our jobs, and our economy at large.

Department of Health and Social Care

All things considered I can’t see them not following through on their response to the petition, safe to say I won’t be getting vaccinated a) I’ve already had it, b) herd immunity is sufficient c) I am not at risk d) it’s been rushed through e) may well come from nations we could easily consider enemies of the state in China or Russia

Thought those of us who propagate graphs and articles amongst their social circles might appreciate links the the graphs Toby stuck in todays update. For me these should prove beyond any doubt that increased testing means increased new cases !

You will need to copy and paste each link as the comments section hasn’t rendered them correctly in the page for some reason.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&positiveTestRate=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&testsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

Oh shit, the Thought Police are at the door, they have come to install a “telescreen”, you know, the one that you cannot turn off. Doubleplusungood.

Councils in the North East have written to the government begging for further local lockdown restrictions because of the rise in ‘cases’. Most of these councils are Labour except for Northumberland which deposed its leader last week after he suspended the CEO. He did this because, after he refused to support BLM in Council communications, she accused him, in writing, of an affair with another councillor. There is also a police investigation going on into an arms length company set up by the council and the local health authority which, bizarrely, has the same CEO. It would appear that there is a plot by the Labour Group and some of the senior officers of the council to undermine the Tory administration. The letter to the government begging for lockdown has, presumably, been written by officers, encouraged by the North of Tyne Mayor, a Corbyn supporter whose activities, since being elected several years ago, appear to be negligible.

Northumberland is a county unitary, covering a huge, rural, sparsely populated area of market towns, villages and open moorland. The only area with any population density is the former coalfield area in the south east corner, where it borders North Tyneside. The only significant level of ‘cases’ is in that area. There are miles and miles of nothing. If this local lockdown is imposed on the whole county, local small businesses, such as restaurants and village pubs, will suffer further detriment for no valid reason, and local people will (officially-this is Border Reiver country!) have even more draconian restrictions on their ability to mix with family and friends. Farming families, living in separate households on their own land, would be officially forbidden to mix with each other.

I have written to the local Tory MP, and the new Deputy Leader of the Council, an old friend, to protest about this and encouraged others to do the same. However, I wonder what the motivation is for the council to send this letter.

There will, of course, be the sanctimonious ‘solidarity’ nonsense. People here feel no solidarity with Gateshead or Sunderland; they are another world and one that we don’t particularly want to visit! I suspect, though, that the reason is money. Presumably councils that are subject to local lockdown measures receive extra money from the government. Newcastle has already received a huge pot, which it has spent on pointless and much hated cycle lanes. This will, no doubt, yield more.

Beware county unitaries!!

I hail from the Socialist Republic of North Tyneside, and know at first hand how things have worked in and around the local council bordering you in Northumberland. Get in touch with Linda Arkley (was mayor of NT) – she might be able to help. By way of background, Labour in that area love their little tricks – the smear normally involves something worse (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Morgan_(politician) ).

Good luck.

But it will be like Sturgeon land where the grateful sheppies will thank their betters for keeping them safe and lives are more important than business.

Someone should actually create BeBopRockSteady’s “Lockdown Zealots” website, satirical like the CoronavirusCirclejerk subreddit. And the best part would be that at least one zealous prat would actually take it seriously!

A chance to signal their virtue, rat on their neighbours and slag off Wetherspoons? They’ll flock to it

Commercialize it heavily …

2nd letter to my local MP who said:

“On testing, I’m afraid that I do not agree that the increase in positive results is solely due to increased community testing, as confirmed by the Chief Medical Officer.”

Thought i’d send a reply with some graphs which would make my point after seeing those graphs on Toby’s page. Here it is if anyone wishes to use it for their own elected nitwit lol.

Hi Dan,
thanks for the quick response, I wasn’t expecting to hear anything for a few days given the current situation. I appreciate that you will no doubt be inundated with correspondance making arguments for all kinds of different approaches to the current situation. If I could, I would like to have 2 more minutes of your time to cast your eyes over some relevant data regards testing?
I was dissappointed with your response regards the current situation regards ever increasing numbers of “new cases” so just wanted to highlight actual data to back up my assertion. I think/hope the three different graphs I’m going to provide links for below may possibly start to make you think differently about this.

First graph shows the volume of tests per 1,000 people that have been done in the UK from April onwards.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&testsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

Second graph shows the number of confirmed cases per 1 million people in the UK.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

Third graph shows the share/rate of tests undertaken that actually come back as positive.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&positiveTestRate=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

The last graph while showing a slight uptick in the share of positive tests to 1.3%, is still ridiculously low to warrant the draconian “rule of six” and other measures currently being imposed on the population, especially when you factor in the possibiltiy of false positives and the fact that a positive test does not constitute an infectious individual. As per Prof Robert Dingwall (NERVTAG) recently said while trying to justify the NHS and Govt stance on their decision to remove elderly patients from hospitals and return them to their care homes without testing them first:

“The problem is that the PCR tests are so sensitive that they can detect RNA when the virus itself is inactive and no longer infective. It is only being cleared from the body. This can go on for several weeks so you would be keeping people in hospital unnecessarily”

This was in the Daily Telegraph several weeks ago and I took a screenshot (attached) as the article is behind a paywall and I thought it was pertinent at the time. Given the above you must surely see that the more tests conducted, the more “new cases” your going to find as there is a small percentage of the population either infected or with the remnents of RNA still to be cleared from their bodies? The only real way of acurately measuring spreading of a virus through a given population would surely be a static number of random tests undertaken each day as then an increase in positive tests, as a share of the number tests taken, gives a better indication of prevaIence of Covid-19 RNA within the population?

I appreciate that you have been taking whatever the Chief Medical Office has said as gospel but i’m hoping the above may start to make you think more critically about the Govt taking the number of new cases as an accurate indicator of the severity of our situation? Thanks ever so much for reading this, I appreciate it’s my 2nd email in 2 days. Any feedback, opinions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time,

Send him my (ignored) letter to Hancock and Hunt about a FOI request answer I had on PCR tests:

Matthew John David Hancock
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care

Jeremy Richard Streynsham Hunt
Chair of the Health and Social Care Select Committee

I have received and answer to a FOI request back from your department, the DHSC, about the PCR tests they are using and what the results mean.

One of my questions and the most important:

-supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.

The answer:

SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). Patients can have SARS-CoV-2 RNA before onset of illness, during the illness and after resolution of symptoms (all variable periods). The result has to be taken into context of symptoms present.

So my question to you both in your positions as Secretary of State for Health and as the Chair of the Parliamentary Committee on Health and Social Care is:

SO A POSITIVE TEST MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE CONTEXT OF “SUFFERING” FROM THE PIECES OF VIRAL MATERIAL DETECTED IN THE TEST SAMPLE SO WHY THE CONTINUING ADHERENCE TO INSISTING THAT A PERSON WHO TESTS POSITIVE MUST BE ISOLATED FOR 14 DAYS AND AREAS ARE TO BE PLACED INTO FURTHER LOCAL LOCKDOWNS BASED ON THE SAME MEANINGLESS TEST RESULT?

They also provided a link to a document by Health Technology Wales which in answer to this question:

– the official policy/guidance from DHSC to the various bodies who are following the above policy. I can confirm that the Department holds information relevant to your request. As the information held by the Department is in the public domain, we will under Section 21 of the FOI Act (information accessible to the applicant by other means) refer you to the published source, a summary of evidence on the accuracy of the test,

https://www.healthtechnology.wales/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/EAR025-COVID19-diagnostics-report-v2.6.pdf

It does include a few notable gems such as (the paper’s original comments in blue with their updates in umber and with my notes in red):

We identified 39 individual studies and one pooled analysis reporting outcomes including diagnostic accuracy, detection rates and the time taken to obtain test results. We carried out quality assessment of the studies and judged the majority to be at risk of bias in one or more aspect of their design or conduct, which means their results may not be reliable. So not too accurate then these studies?

Some studies did not include methods of confirmatory/differential diagnosis to validate the test results obtained (e.g. the proportion of likely false positive and negative results). A pooled analysis estimated the sensitivity of an initial RT-PCR test result to be 89%, using results of repeated RT-PCR as the reference standard. So does this mean that there is an estimated 11% false result?

There are important gaps in the available evidence on the effectiveness of tests for the presence of SARS-CoV-2. Studies of virus testing in asymptomatic patients, or in specific populations such as healthcare workers are limited in number and there is no evidence on the validated diagnostic performance of the tests beyond their use in the hospital setting. So pretty useless then?

a true assessment of the accuracy of RT-PCR test results is very challenging, and using these RT-PCR for validation mean the same issues apply to the results of antibody tests studied in this way. so the test has lots of problems with accuracy and the antibody test cannot be used for doublechecking the results due to these inaccuracies?

So basically as admitted by the DHSC you are using tests that are “unreliable” to say the least, have no reference standard to double check the accuracy against and that have results that means nothing medically?

And yet you still pump out the continuous propaganda that whole swathes of the population have to be put into isolation and incarceration based on these tests and results.

An explanation would be very much appreciated by myself and many other people as there has been absolutely nothing coming from Government for months now that makes any kind of sense.

Yours in growing exasperation and disgust.

Here they are:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending4september2020

• In Week 36, the number of deaths registered was 15.7% below the five-year average (1,443 fewer deaths); this is the first time since Week 32 that weekly deaths have been below the five-year average.
• Of the deaths registered in Week 36, 78 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, the lowest number of deaths involving COVID-19 in the last 25 weeks and a 22.8% decrease compared with Week 35 (a difference of 23 deaths), accounting for 1.0% of all deaths in England and Wales.

Even allowing for the Bank Holiday, if you are looking for a second wave/surge/deadly plague/apocalypse… Sorry, there’s nothing to see here!

And here’s perhaps the biggest problem we’ve faced. John Stuart Mill argued for free speech on the basis that we can have no way of having any confidence in our own opinions about anything if they are not able to withstand free challenge by those who disagree with them, it’s imo the strongest argument made for freedom of speech. In this coronapanic we have had our information actively censored and therefore slanted, and dissenting opinions have been censored and punished.

Thus the vast majority of the people who support the government line (anyone who does not actively search for dissenting opinion and information) have no basis for believing in the opinions they hold, except deference to authority and groupthink.

From the beginning, dissenting scientists and mathematicians were told that expressing their opinions was “dangerous”, and found it hard to get reported. Same for other experts, from lawyers to economists and politicians. The BBC and most mainstream media, as well as big tech social media, has taken the same position – dissent is dangerous and can and should be censored. Gabriela Gomes (preprint from May at Medrxiv ) has struggled to get her vital research out because:

“[S]cience journals refuse to publish it. Our most recent preprint estimating relatively low herd immunity thresholds has just been rejected. The top reason was: “Given the implications for public health, it is appropriate to hold claims around the herd immunity threshold to a very high evidence bar, as these would be interpreted to justify relaxation of interventions, potentially placing people at risk.”

Youtube, Facebook and the rest have openly declared that disagreement with WHO guidance can and will be censored for the supposed greater good, and numerous cases of their doing exactly that are on record. As Toby reported here, a LinkedIn member recently reported having his account restored on condition he agrees “not to post content which may “interfere in or improperly influence an election” or “directly contradicts guidance from leading global health organisations and public health authorities”.”

Anyone who thinks the BBC and mainstream newspapers and broadcast media have not been actively biasing their coverage to encourage compliance with government dictats (again, for the supposed “greater good”) is frankly extremely ignorant and naïve.

Is it a coincidence that we are living through, globally, perhaps the most disastrous period of mis-government in history (certainly to judge by the costs of the panic response, in lives lost, economic disaster, and loss of liberty)? Seems to me we are living through a harsh demonstration of the central importance of freedom of speech.

And the connected right to peaceful assembly – when one’s opinions/thoughts/beliefs can be discussed and challenged by others.

As to ‘mis-government’, I think they’ve achieved exactly what they set out to. A pretend panic response is not a panic response, Mark.

“ As to ‘mis-government’, I think they’ve achieved exactly what they set out to. A pretend panic response is not a panic response, Mark .”

Clearly we lie at separate points on the cock-up/conspiracy spectrum, but tbh it’s “mis-government” (or mis-rule) either way, whether it’s intentional or incompetent.

Clearly we lie at separate points on the cock-up/conspiracy spectrum, but tbh it’s “mis-government” (or mis-rule) either way, whether it’s intentional or incompetent.

It certainly is. I guess which one it is matters mostly in determining our response/strategy/tactics.

Yes, agree with freedom of speech and the right to peaceful assembly – many other political issues are important but all take a back seat while the corona madness and evil continue, but freedom of speech and protest seem to me to be inextricably linked – the lack of them has helped us get to where we are and are keeping us there. I think it’s going to be hard to solve one without the other.

Thanks, Mark. Nailed it!

Very well put. I have copied this, for my own library to use in potential arguments.
Thank you.

Only 1% of deaths in England and Wales now linked to Covid, ONS says

Only 1% of deaths in England and Wales in the week ending 4 September involved coronavirus, according to the latest weekly death statistics from the Office for National Statistics. Of the 7,739 deaths registered that week, 78 had Covid mentioned on the death certificate. That is the lowest number of Covid deaths in the last 25 weeks, the ONS says.

Overall deaths in the week ending 4 September were also 15.7% below the five-year average for this time of year, the report says.

https://twitter.com/Anshul__K/status/1305529431805628419?s=19

Estimate how many positives we would have had at the peak if we were testing as much as we are now – using 205,659 processed P1 & P2 tests that were reported on September 10th.

Interesting thread and an excellent chart showing the same for France lower down. It really puts everything into context.

I now understand Sebastien-Roch-Nicolas Chamfort a little better:

“A man should swallow a toad every morning to be sure of not meeting with anything more revolting in the day ahead.”

I suppose nowadays a woman should do the same, too.

All quiet on the sunak green recovery £10k to insulate your home front.

If forgotten it was announced at the same time as free ~prison~ lockdown meals out and apprenticeship schemes for big business – not for those employing less than 30 apprentices.

Suspect they have been able to attract firms to do the work to sign up. Spoke to a large glazing business up here and they weren’t bothering as they had seen a similar scheme fail nearly 20 years ago. There are apparently loads of conditions and means testing etc so the chances of actually getting a grant are pretty remote.

Yes always fall through – its how we recover..

Thanks concrete. The salesman said starting in September, interesting it will be delayed to October.

Has anyone who is tech savvy considered making a website – ‘what are my chances?’

People could type in their postcode, their age, whether they smoke etc and the computer says – ‘You have an x% of catching Covid and an x% chance of dying from Covid’

Sounds simple but I’ve yet to see one.

Try https://www.freelancer.com/

Put a job spec up for your requirements and you will get a load of developers bidding for the work to create your website.

This is a service I’ve long wished Toby could offer here in some form. I’d want my money to go to web developers etc who are sound sceptics. Perhaps a section of the forum: “Sceptical businesses/services for hire”, or somesuch.

Agree. I’d rather it be a labour of love than just another job for someone who may or may not want it to run well.

Yes, and the potential issue of sabotage (active or passive) that you touch on there might be remote, but it’s not nothing.

Even better if they listed your chances of dying from other things in descending order. Covid probably wouldn’t make it in to the top 20 for most people.

There’s a “Covid Age” calculator at the ALAMA website: https://alama.org.uk/covid-19-medical-risk-assessment/

I’m not endorsing it, simply reporting it. However it is in use, for example by universities, in deciding whether or not staff have a valid case for asking to work at home or in non-public-facing positions.

It’s being used by my local University (where my wife works) I entered my details and IIRC I came out with an age of 78 (I am a 64 y.o. male with type 2 diabetes)

It would need to be capable of supporting answers to several decimal places as for most people the answer will be very small indeed at this stage. Maybe 5 decimal places and below that rounded to 0%

You could contact these guys who created one for flying – https://www.fearofflying.app/

I use it a lot with clients who are scared of flying.

Happy to oblige, while it’s not scientific it will give you an idea….

https://ncov2019.live/calculator

Here’s one, it is an American site, I don’t know if it is effective for non Americans but might be helpful
t https://www.stopcovidcold.com

One of those calculators said I’d a 36% chance of dying, the next one said my risk was “average” and the university one gave my Covid age as 61 so I’m none the wiser!

This was very interesting. Basically everything was rosy in New Zealand. Ok, so no one was allowed to leave or enter but St Jacinda was getting plaudits from all and sundry for her handling of the Covid issue. No masks, life basically continuing as normal. Then they decide to start testing people with no symptoms, something they had not been doing previously. Suprise, suprise – they discover new “cases”. Panic, lockdown, masks. Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcONxyAJ8S4&feature=youtu.be

I wonder if it might be something to do with false positives, highlighted by ludicrous amplification cycles…

Exactly but I meant why manufacture a lockdown out of nothing? Unless you believe they’re so stupid they didn’t realise this would happen.

Yes, I do believe that they are so stupid!

Why, oh why, oh why, do so many people on here assume that because a monkey has stood for parliament – in a constituency where a nematode worm wearing the right coloured rosette would be elected – that they are super intelligent?

Who said they are “super intelligent”?

I think many of us believe the MPs we are dealing with are intelligent enough to grasp this.

I agree there is a wilful ignorance and I don’t understand why.

Somebody somewhere, maybe even in here, likened politicians to chimps running a nuclear power station. Maybe a little cruel towards the chimps.

I don’t know why but countries all over the place trying the same thing.

Because they are all being run by fucking idiots who don’t know what they are doing. They just copy each other!

The answer is in the question. Countries all over the place are trying the same thing.

Politicians generally are not independent thinkers. They are the best bullshitters in the flock with a special ability to make all the other sheep think they know what is going on. In reality they are just quick readers of the way the flock is moving and have the ability to move themselves quickly to the front to give the impression they are leading.

Because otherwise they have to admit the Chinese communist party played them for absolute fools and they have destroyed our western economies and health care systems for no good reason. Oh yes, and almost every country chucked the most vulnerable into care homes with other vulnerable people and left them to die…

That applies to most countries but I’m not sure it applies to NZ. Apart from sealing themselves off from the rest of the world (admittedly destroying their tourism industry) they were going about their business more or less as normal and are now in a crisis all of their own making.

Great comment thanks. Why indeed.

When writing to MP don’t forget to raise the False Positive Rate issue. All this worry about testing capability is irrelevant if the FPR is 99% – see “Government Innumeracy” article on this site. The cover up over the FPR is the biggest scandal in this whole crazy and sinister situation.

Again, there is no evidence for a “cover up” of the FPR issue. Ministers are numerically illiterate. Thick .

Why is this not getting through?

It wouldn’t be a very good cover up if there was evidence. Hancock studied for a BA in Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) at Exeter College, Oxford , and an MPhil in Economics at Christ’s College, Cambridge , as a postgraduate student. He was an economist at the Bank of England before serving as a senior economic adviser and then later Chief of Staff to George Osborne . Surely he is not thick and is in fact pretty good with numbers?

So he has an economics degree. That doesn’t make him an expert on health related matters.

You have him operate on members of your family.

And NO having an economics degree does not make you pretty good with numbers. For that you need a mathematics degree.

As for the rest of it. So bloody what? He just knows who to suck up to. “Jobs for the boys.”

He certainly ought to be. He has said he is dyslexic, so he must be good at Maths, otherwise, how did he get into Oxford, then get a job at the BoE?

PPE isn’t a proper degree. It’s a 3 year cocktail party and networking event

Sort of true. Also the case that many (at least in my day) essentially dropped the E in second year as it is a bit trickier than the two Ps. However, even by Oxford standards, not easy to get a place – although it helps if your headmaster/headmistress has College-specific contacts!

Even a pure economics degree isn’t worth wiping your arse on. It’s for people who couldn’t do STEM. If you wanted to be a brilliant economist you’d do STEM first and then economics as a postdoc. You can teach a Physicist economics but you can’t teach an economist Physics.

Not quite. Tried that. STEM to Economics sometimes works, depending on the particular bit of STEM.

This is true. An engineer, a mathematician, an economist and a prostitute are all sat, socially distanced, in a pub, discussing whose is the oldest profession.

The engineer claimed his was the oldest profession, because it took engineers to build civilisation, from houses to tools. The prostitute claimed hers was the oldest profession, because as long as there have been men working away from home, such as engineers building civilisation, they have needed relief from their base urges.

The mathematician piped up, claiming hers as the oldest profession, because God needed a mathematical model in order to create the universe from chaos.

Then the economist joined the fray. “And who do you think created all the chaos in the first place?”

I am sorry John but I can’t believe that, I am not a teacher and didn’t study maths beyond 16 but understand the False positive maths and explained it to my ten year old son with little difficulty. The politicians and scientists understand the issue, without doubt, it is just that they are choosing to ignore it. The reason for their wilful ignorance is the question.

I think they are that thick. I know a relatively senior civil servant working on covid. I had to explain to him what the IFR meant last week

And I work for a large consultancy company working with Gov on such projects, not me personally. The level of understanding by some can leave a lot to be desired

The government/NHS/whatever provide us with figures daily/weekly that show it is going away. Yet,they lie to us and contradict their own information. They really are pissing on our shoes and telling us it is raining.

I noticed that my MP had written to Matt Hancock about the lack of tests available in my home city. I emailed him to ask him to write again to Mr Hancock to ask him the following questions:

1. How many Ct cycles are used in the laboratories which process the tests in the city?
2. What is the percentage of false positives for these tests?
3. Has the increased numbers of positive tests in this city been accompanied by a corresponding rise in hospitalisations, people in ICU and deaths?
4. When is Mr Hancock planning to investigate the validity of these PCR tests as he apparently promised a fellow MP he would do?
5. When will Mr Hancock start to consider the wellbeing of the 99.5% of the U.K. population who have not been affected by Covid 19 (apart from financially, educationally, socially and health care wise)?
6. When will Mr Hancock and the government stop treating the British public as idiots over a disease which has apparently killed 0.01% of the world population with an average age of death of 80?
7. We have been awaiting a promised second wave for months now following BLM protests, full beaches, VE Day etc. When will Mr Hancock declare the “second wave” narrative to be at an end?
8. When will the government stop describing positive PCR tests as cases? They should only be used for diagnosis with accompanying X rays and blood tests.
9. Could the Secretary of State for health please provide me with the scientific evidence that has guided the government to introduce its “rule of six”?

There were a few more questions but I’m sure you get the drift!

Brilliant and spot on.

Thanks. Good points for my next attempt.

Sod Coronavirus I’m still worrying about nuclear war, rabies and those African killer bees.

Never mind that, with your name you ought to be worrying about the Tortoise, which can not only beat you in a race but also kill you if it happens to fall on your head.

We need to Lockdown all eagles and large birds of prey ,no in fact lockdown all of our feathered friends as a large flock of Sparrers could also carry a tortoise into the air and cause Tortoise fallout , perhaps seagulls could act as Tortoise Marshall’s??

My worry is a move to cull all bats.

Save lives. Wear a helmet.

Don’t have a helmet? A saucepan or a colander will do.

Only if you are an ancient Greek..

According to the ONS, deaths for week 36 (ending 4 Sep) of 2020:-

Total: 7739 (down from 9032 prev. week, down from 9182 5Y average)
‘flu/pneumonia: 874 (down from 1040 prev. week)
COVID-19: 78 (down from 101 prev. week)

‘flu/pneumonia:COVID-19 ratio is just over 11.8:1 (10.3:1 prev. week), COVID-19 mentions as a proportion of all-cause deaths: 0.956% (prev. week 1.12%), ‘flu/pneumonia: 11.23% (prev. week 11.51%)

‘flu/pneumonia to COVID-19 ratio still is going up more than a month after the increase in mask wearing, while no causation can be claimed, what can be claimed with even more confidence now is that this indicates that wearing face “coverings” does not protect against aerosolised infection.

Ref: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending4september2020

Some very good news in the battle against the WHO’s censorship of dissenting voices. The Children’s Health Defence (CHD), founded by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., is suing Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, and three fact-checking organisations for censoring public health posts about vaccine safety and for fraudulently misrepresenting and defaming CHD by labelling their website fake news. The case shines a spotlight on Facebook’s coordinated censorship campaign with the WHO. CHD is a non-profit watchdog group that exposes corruption in the pharmaceutical industry and federal agencies, including Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the World Health Organization (WHO), and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC).

Kennedy has form taking on large industries; he bought the first case against Monsanto on behalf of a plaintiff who developed cancer from exposure to Roundup, Monsanto’s widely used herbicide, and the company was ordered to pay US$289 million in damages. That landmark case led the way to further successful outcomes for other victims – lets hope this case has similar success exposing these insidious conflicts of interest.

Great post

Thank you Victoria, that’s funny I just replied to your post, also about the CHD. Kennedy’s smashing it at the moment !

My nephew is home from school with sore throat, earache and a cough. Similar symptoms in other children. Although colds and throat infections are to be expected it would be interesting to know the numbers in comparison to other years, especially as it is still only early Setember and mild weather. Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with what would have been a mild bacterial throat infection being enhanced to a greater one by having a superb environment, that is exhaling into a mask, with which the bacteria can proliferate.

Who knows? Sounds like just another bug doing the rounds. You can speculate endlessly about these things and not achieve very much. Young children are very susceptible to them and they are largely harmless.

Of course if the children wear a mask and they have a mild bacterial infection it will get worse. They re-breathe the bacteria, which love the damp environment in the fabric and happily multiply in it, as the mask surely has not been washed in forever, and them fiddling with it, etc etc.
Even my nurse mother who commented about my depressive aunt: depression? Just pull yourself together!! confirmed to me just recently how bad masks are and increase the likelihood of getting ill.

Was in the park yesterday and watched as four mums and five kids ambled past in one direction, obviously one big group, and two PCSOs ambled past them, in the other direction. No one batted an eyelid. Earlier I was at my GP surgery for a blood test. On pain of DEATH I was to wear a face covering. I’ve got a cheapo, cheapo, visor thing for such emergencies as I needed my appointment and I like to pick my battles wisely. On arrival there were about seven staff drifting around, all in each other’s space and only two wearing masks! There was one other person in the waiting room without a farce marsk on either. Even the nurse who I know, KNOWS more than she saying, only put her face shield on when she greeted me. I’m feeling more and more, despite the desperate doom-mongering being pushed out, that the tide is turning.

I’ve had an appointments at my opticians and dentists recently and both instructed me to wear a mask on arrival. On both occasions I telephoned ahead and said that I had an exemption and that if they insisted I would comply–but reluctantly! (I need my teeth OK and my specs sorted after all!). Both said that was fine and I attended both appointments mask less. I haven’t had occasion to visit my doctor’s surgery since lock down but I will take the same tack if I do.
You’re right about picking your battles wisely and it’s self defeating to cut your nose off to spite your face but declaring exemptions carries a lot of weight—and rightly so.

Just had my reminder text for Contact Lens checkup, not made appt yet, but we’ll see what they say. Interesting that not only are *we* exempt, but their premises are, too. I’ll be sat within snogging distance of my practitioner, so might give in there in a private room, but not waiting in the shop, which will probably be empty, anyway.

‘Give in’ to the face covering, that is!

Although my dentist was fully masked up he is totally sceptic. During our chat (in between pulling and pushing my face) he agreed with me when I said : ‘you can’t get rid of a virus by government decree’!

My optometrist (the one who does the actual eye test) was also masked up but was friendly, chatty and as ‘normal’ as could be.

Good to know, Harry. My mileage may vary, but they are a reasonable lot, and I’ve beenn going for years. I’ll report back eventually.

As far as I can remember my dentists have all always been masked up anyway, more for their hygiene than disease prevention. I wouldn’t fancy being showered in drool all the time.

I really really hope you are right.

The number of people who think the emperor is disrobed is, actually, increasing exponentially. Quite what it will take to tip the see saw is anyone’s guess but the number of people Johnson could now chuck under the bus wouldn’t actually fit on the bus, “socially distanced” or not.

It’s possible that the Rule of 6 may have the same impact on public scepticism as Dominic Cummings’ road trip. Personally, I’d been ready to give the government the benefit of the doubt until that point. Now 100% sceptic.

I found long before the present episode that a group email I sent out with the words ‘World Stealth Organisation’ in the title was blocked – this was probably 2018. It really seems as if criticising the WHO flicks some of switch with Google.

Telling, if true:

https://twitter.com/MrsGobber/status/1305748960431271937

via Simon Dolan.

Exactly the same at mine, 20 per day max since it opened.

Tall/Karen, good to know. I’ve actively avoided going near ours, just don’t wanna know sort of thing, but maybe I should start paying attention. We have local restrictions after all.

Yet I know of one care worker whose weekly testing kit did not arrive being directed 160 miles sway to get a test. She cannot work until tested.

I have been past our town’s testing station 4-5 times at different times of the day since it opened no more than a month ago. I have yet to see 1 person there!

If this is the deal with a lot of stations – where are these testing figures coming from.

I don’t do Twitter but a reply to the post.

My brother has a sickness and diarrhea bug and was told he needs to take a test, he couldn’t get a test as they have run out of tests, after phoning 119 for a home test he was on hold for 45 mins then cut off.

Why the fuck would he need a test for probable norovirus.

Exactly!

All he needed was activated charcoal, stops diarrhoea in its tracks. Very effective for norovirus

I normally have a spoonful of gravy granules, thickens it up.

Actually he should not go out until back to normal for 48 hour, even for a SARS-COV-2 test. Needs to keep hydrated.

Indeed, diahroea and dehydration is probably more dangerous than ‘it’

I’ve seen quite a few videos of them of YouTube with people who drive to them to see what is going on. Mostly deserted or decommissioned, and they all have lots of “No Filming” signs there with the Army there to put a bit of pressure on if you’re spotted.

https://brandnewtube.com/v/vjbKGF

We’re not gonna take it anymore

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/nightingale-court-closes-less-than-a-month-after-it-opened/5105632.article#.X2CV3WayAac.twitter

Daily Mail: Man is spotted wearing a SNAKE instead of a face mask as he takes ride on the bus.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8734357/Man-spotted-wearing-SNAKE-instead-face-mask-takes-ride-bus.html

Style …

When’s this gonna become mandatory?

DON’T ENCOURAGE THEM!!!

This could be the answer. Putting something far more dangerous over our mouths. What next?…

BBCR 2 Midday today, Jeremy Vine
1) would you snitch on someone breaking the Rule of 6 ! ?”
2) Tim Harford discussing risk in relation to the Covid
JV concludes intro “I dunno you have to walk past 27,000 people to find someone who’d got it ! “

Tim Harford is good value, recent article in the FT stating that for any one day, the chance of getting COVID and dying is 44 in a million. Only fly in the ointment is he is a “second waver” (at the end of the article).

He’s also a ‘lockdown sooner would have saved x lives because Professor Ferguson’s model says so’ advocate.

He’s been a disappointment as far as I’m concerned.

Pretty wishy washy interview but the one interesting thing that Tim Harford said was
“I’m not sure that there will be a second wave…”.

Just watched the video of the Dr Atlas interview. Wow. Just change America to UK and it’s an almost perfect fit. The entire Cabinet should be locked in a room and forced to watch it.

His top 10 tips:
1-9 Use critical thinking when you’re looking at the evidence;
10 Understand the impact of the health policy before implementation.

https://zdoggmd.com/jay-bhattacharya/

Long radio interview just published

Dr Bhattachayra is a Stanford physician and economist and co-author of several serological studiea on COVID-19.
In this must-watch interview, we talk about EVERYTHING, including the true IFR, comparisons to influenza, drama around his Santa Clara antibody trial, reinfections, vaccine development, economic and social impacts, why we must open schools now, the horrors of censorship of scientists and opposing dialog how Stanford is contributing to the problem of stifling dissenting opinions, Dr. Scott Atlas and his advisory role to the president,empathy vs.compassion with regards to COVID, and MUCH MORE.

https://twitter.com/smerconish/status/1305591396217360385

This is a shorter interview radio different with him and Dr Martin Kulldorf Harward about C-19 and schools.Both from common sense experts at Stanford and Harward

https://www.ft.com/content/9a1e118f-a4ef-43ab-a981-58b8bd35c0e1?segmentid=acee4131-99c2-09d3-a635-873e61754ec6

FT Wolfgang Munchau slowly starting questioning lockdown even in FT!

Probably already on here, but latest ONS deaths = 78…….1% of total deaths as per normal. Stay under your beds, wear a mask, live your life in bubble wrap and live to 100!

Yep. Percentage of total deaths over last four reports has gone 1.5, 1.4, 1.1, 1. I’m sure that should tell us something…

If masks and all the other nonsense protect against viruses, why have so many people got colds?!

Phase 2 will introduce a plastic bag over your head, with an elastic band round your neck. It protects others.

Because they wear face nappies for hours on end which surely encourage and incubate colds and flu.

None of the TJN household have worn masks, even once, and we’ve all got stonking colds.

I blame the maskoids and their spreading of viruses. Seriously.

About to open a new bottle of single malt and a new packet of lemsips.

Killer Virus Pandemic causes surge in drink and drugs abuse!!

Yes, thing is, that is a very serious point.

Aren’t they expensive now!!!!

Whisky or lemsips? The latter are about 46p each (tight aren’t I), and I only like expensive whisky.

I’ve got lots of bottles of malt which I got a decade and more ago now at reasonable prices, but will never want to drink them now knowing what hay are worth today …

My grandparent’s shielded and are mask wearers, fair cop as they are both vulnerable – Granddad got a “nasty headcold” and then passed it to my Grandma, she’s made of stern stuff so laughed it off in a couple of days, now they’re both fine again.

They probably got it from the masks.

Caller on Vine asking “Do government ever think things through?” She agrees ‘six’ may be clear, but “it’s stupid”.

She’s great! Shirley.

That was good old Cockerny Clair, 6 is stupid, should be 8, Jeremy suggested 10 but he was teasing her.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.13.295691v1

If this non-prescription cough medicine was effective against C-19 would be a catastrophe for Big Pharma.This article just published from Texas.

 “Herein, we discovered that Ambroxol hydrochloride (AMB), and its progenitor, Bromhexine hydrochloride (BHH), both clinically approved drugs are potent effective modulators of the key interaction between the receptor binding domain (RBD) of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein and human ACE2. We also found that both compounds inhibited SARS-CoV-2 infection-induced cytopathic effect at micromolar concentrations. Therefore, in addition to the known TMPRSS2 activity of BHH; we report for the first time that the BHH and AMB pharmacophore has the capacity to target and modulate yet another key protein-protein interaction essential for the two known SARS-CoV-2 entry pathways into host cells. Altogether, the potent efficacy, excellent safety and pharmacologic profile of both drugs along with their affordability and availability, makes them promising candidates for drug repurposing as possible prophylactic and/or treatment options against SARS-CoV-2 infection. ”

There is a real disease in science these days. It’s the Fallacy of Composition (FoC), the belief that the behaviour of a part of a system will be the behaviour of the whole system, at least with direct effect or some scaled version of it.

So what does that mean? Take masks for example. In a forward direction a cloth mask will stop droplets of a certain size and hence reduce overall transmission in that scenario.

Fine, you can demonstrate that.

But here is the FoC:

1. Virus is contained in droplets
2. Transmission of a virus by droplets is feasible
3. Wearing a mask reduces droplet transmission hence should reduce viral transmission
4. Wearing a mask in group settings will help reduce viral transmission in a group
5. Wearing a mask will help reduce viral transmission in society.

The issue is that when you get to 3, 4 and 5 the scope of your original observation is no longer applicable because you need to characterise the other effects as the size of your environment increases. There are hidden assertions in there.

So saying that a local effect can be applied to the global is wrong. Saying “ceteris parebus” – all things being equal – is also wrong because that requires a level of assertion beyong the scope of your original measurements. Or in a more common way:

Don’t extrapolate beyond the bounds of your work.

However there is something more fundamental and it comes from studying systems. Systems will work to minimise energy and do that in anyway possible. That can be at a micro, meso or macro level. For a local effect to affect a whole system it needs to have a level of coherence between all other factors that is unseen in Nature, apart from in a Bose-Einstein condensate. The Butterfly that flaps its wings will rarely bring a hurricane as there is always noise in the system that prevents the effect from ballooning up. Unless of course the system is at a “tipping point”. But then many other things can influence the system so you’re also out of luck saying it was your thing.

So in our face masks scenario we can see that in society right now and for a few months, the transmission of the flu was unchanged. Overall numbers are down but not relative changes between weeks. So immediately there are other ways a virus can be transmitted that are both more effective and less affected by measures.

Another is Seatbelts save lives – for all road deaths, no they don’t. They will save you in your car but then you have an increased risk of being hit when out walking or on your bike from someone wearing a seatbelt. Risk compensation results in people driving that little bit faster due to an enhanced feeling of security as well as a detachment from awareness.

So remember this when you see all the Covid-19 nonsense or when someone talks about masks being like trousers for people pissing on each other. Just think, would that happen in a system? More than likely you already know the answer.

Great explanation. Unfortunately this kind of reasoning seems well beyond the understanding of our politicians, our media and (scariest of all) our chief scientific advisers.

Hmmm. I was under the impression that the number of road deaths – pedestrians plus cyclists plus drivers – is lower now than it has been for many years

It lowered but not due to the introduction of seat belts. John Adams is the guy to look up. He shows how in for example Denmark, the declining rate of road deaths was interrupted and plateaued when seatbelts were introduced. Same as the UK I believe.

Yes i recall it had plateaued. Seems like many years ago!

Or to put it in simple terms Mask Fanatics suffer from Premature Extrapolation.

Besides that, the reason masks might not reduce virus transmission is because people handling them could pass on the virus by touch. The counter argument from mask zealots is that people should be careful when handling their mask, but what people actually do is relevant, not what they should do.

This is a little something for the conspiracy loons on here who think that passing exams makes you intelligent, and that the government is being run by a group of malevolent superbrains:

From the 1980s. Maureen Lipman on fine form: “You get an ology, you’re a scientist!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC_-r-J69qA

Passing exams does not make you intelligent.

I don’t think that very many, if any, of the “conspiracy loons” (as you charmingly describe them) believe that the government is being run by a group of malevolent superbrains. They are puppets dancing to the tunes of others.

John Pretty is either a shill or by constantly time-wasting and picking pointless arguments managing to do a pretty accurate impression of one. MW

Yes, I have noticed that; I try to let people have their say even if I disagree with them (I don’t want to live in an echo-chamber) but he just seems to be taking the mick.

I would say that I disagree with a fair proportion of what people say on here, mostly on ‘off-topic’ issues, but I’m so grateful for this sceptical forum that, like you, I live and let live. I’ve also had to open my mind about some things and I don’t think it’s done me much harm.

However, some posters just seem to be able to set hares running or pick holes in some posts for no good reason and that’s when I get suspicious. It would be incredible if this site wasn’t attracting that kind of attention, some of it more subtle than others! MW

It’s a technique known as ‘forum / topic sliding’

Easy to spot once you are aware

Yip shill

Best ignored if you can manage to

It’s my policy too, Anon, but I thought it wouldn’t do any harm to flag it up Just once as people try to argue the toss with people like this and it’s such a waste of time. MW

My now truly enlightened OH asked me the other day ‘what’s this shill word you keep shouting’

I gave her the dictionary definition.

‘ahhh you mean everyone in the media’

Lol. Yip!

We have at least a couple of trolls now. It’s reassuring they think we are enough of a threat to warrant them.

John Pretty has been posting here from the start and was recently congratulated by many regular posters here for posting the most lucid explanation of PCR testing to date. Compared with some of the offensive commentary here, doubtless brought on by frustration, posting an old BT advert hardly ranks high on the list. Nor does it seem he had any quarrel with the suggestion that Hancock was numerically illiterate; his comment seemed aimed at the relentless dissemination of conspiracy theories, which some find amusing, others don’t.

No, he’s someone with a different opinion. In this, of all sites, you should respect his right to hold and express it. Otherwise you’re no different to mask fascists, BLM extremists and “Rule, Brittania!” cancellers.

What? I’m guessing you were replying to someone other than me?

I assume you are referring to me as one of the conspiracy loons as I suggested that Hancock is not numerically illiterate? I resent that tag and just because some do not agree with you and your take on the situation, does not mean you should label anyone as a loon. I simply do not believe that they are so ‘thick’ that they cannot be aware of the numbers and facts. I am not suggesting any malevolent superbrains but perhaps just trying to cover their arses without an embarrassing climb down. I do not however criticise or label anyone who thinks differently.

Also, I don’t give a shit what Maureen Lipman has got to say on the matter in a crappy BT advert.

Don’t waste your time replying, it’s quite obvious that the John Pretty account is just a bot.

No but looking at what is in front of your face doesn’t make you a loon.
WHO declared a pandemic,the numbers are not even high enough for an epidemic.
WHO changed their guidance on face masks due to political pressure.
Bill gates is a major donor to WHO.He is also a major donor to Gavi the vaccine alliance.He has links to nearly all the major scientific advisors to the government.
Our government believes the only way out of this is a vaccine.
Do you not even think all that there are questions to answer regarding all this.

I like your style bro, I too take great pleasure from talking bollocks

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-73308/v1

A further study showing that Ivermectin could be useful in C-19

“Binding of ivermectin in the active site of RdRp make clash with the nucleotides of RNA chain suggesting the possible inhibition of replication.
Conclusions: The present study suggests ivermectin as a potential inhibitor of RdRp which may be crucial to combat the SARS-CoV2.”

If you get a second check out our podcast ‘The Real Normal’

IT MIGHT KEEP YOU SANE!

Please also leave a review on itunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

It will help us to spread this even further!

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

THANKS FOR YOUR REVIEWS SO FAR!

Just listened to episode 5, thanks for that.

My response to that imbecilic comparison about masks being like wearing trousers stopping you pissing on each other is simple:-

• I don’t urinate on other people, just like I don’t cough in other peoples faces.
• When I’ve urinated in my trousers I don’t then get urine on my hands by constantly fiddling with them, pulling them down to my knees when I leave a shop, taking them off in the car, and then wearing them again unwashed the next day and probably the whole week.
• This seems a sure-fire way to give yourself a urine infection.

The irony is that for the trouser system to be effective it would mean discarding the trousers, washing your hands and putting a fresh pair on each time you urinate in them which is virtually identical to the old advice…Catch it, bin it, kill it. No masks required.

Last week I passed a woman wearing a mask which she pulled down, sneezed and pulled it back up again!

But also think about a society that pissed in their trousers. You’d soon invent a nappy for it. Or exercises to avoid it. Walking around in your own piss can burn the skin. Then there’s the smell and infections. Hmm lovely.

Some people don’t think things through.

If the government was really serious about our health we would all be back to normal and they would reinstate those “Catch it, bin it, kill it” adverts. I always tell people that tissues are always more effective than masks and washing hands with soap and water always trumps hand sanitisers.

A colleague recently emailed the car-sharing guidelines; I’ve never read them. They are already sowing division in our small group of “friends”…
Private cars and other vehiclesPlan your journeyPlan your route, including any breaks, before setting out. Routes may be different as local areas make changes to enable social distancing.
Check that your vehicle is safe and roadworthy if you haven’t used it for several weeks.
People from a household or support bubble can travel together in a vehicle.
You should wear a face covering in an enclosed space where social distancing isn’t possible and where you will come into contact with people outside your household or support bubble. Take care to use face coverings properly .
Consider making a list of items to take with you .
Car sharingYou should try not to share a vehicle with those outside your household or support bubble. If you need to do this, try to:

• share the transport with the same people each time
• keep to small groups of up to 6 people at any one time
• open windows for ventilation
• travel side by side or behind other people, rather than facing them, where seating arrangements allow
• face away from each other
• consider seating arrangements to maximise distance between people in the vehicle
• clean your car between journeys using standard cleaning products – make sure you clean door handles and other areas that people may touch
• ask the driver and passengers to wear a face covering

On your journeyExpect more pedestrians and cyclists, especially at peak times of day. Where possible, allow other road users to maintain social distancing . For example, give cyclists space at traffic lights.
Limit the time you spend at garages, petrol stations and motorway services. Try to keep your distance from other people and if possible pay by contactless.
Wash your hands for at least 20 seconds or sanitise your hands often, and always when exiting or re-entering your vehicle.
Completing your journeyWhen finishing your journey wash your hands for at least 20 seconds or sanitise your hands as soon as possible

Ummm I generally give cyclists room anyway? What on earth has giving cyclists room got to do with social distancing and covid-19? I’m in a metal box all enclosed for a start plus I personally don’t see a cyclist and think “Ooo I must knock them off their bike”.

That has to be the most bizarre piece of written “advice” I’ve ever seen.

They mean to leave space so the 2 or 3 cyclists can keep distance between each other whilst stationary at a red traffic light.
Any decent cyclist is wearing a mask already to avoid the car fumes and many ignore red lights. Well, I guess they have to come up with something.
I recently had to do a covid safe new ways to work interactive training video, which was done months ago and a lot does not apply anymore, I felt truly sorry for the person who had to put this together, they must have gotten drunk later to forget to have to do this job or get paid very well.

Somebody probably spent hours working on that. Well, I say “working.”

Perhaps Peter Kay could bring back his ‘Car Share’ sitcom to reflect the bonkers times we are now living in.

My elderly (87, but fit and active) neighbour has contracted a bad cold (Hoarse voice, runny nose, head ache, tiredness). A couple of days and he’s now on the mend. ‘I don’t know how I’ve got this cold’ he said, ‘I don’t come into contact with many people and I wear a mask when I go shopping’.

Prompted by Mrs Hopkins I asked him about his mask: ‘How often do you change it?’. ‘Never’ was his response, ‘I keep it in my back pocket and only put it on when I have to’.

After a short lecture by my good self explaining that he may well have caught his ‘cold’ from the build up of pathogens, germs and general muck congregating in his mask he declared, with no prompting from me whatsoever; ‘I’m not going to wear a mask again, I’ll just tell them that for the good of my health I’m not going to’. ‘It’s called an exemption’ I replied. ‘If you decide not to wear a mask and you are challenged, simply say ‘I have an exemption’. ‘I will, I hate wearing those things anyway’ was his response.

I think my neighbour will stick true to his word, He’s not the kind to say stuff he doesn’t mean and he certainly doesn’t suffer fools gladly. Another non mask wearing convert on the way to normality and as the Chinese proverb says: ‘Every great journey begins with a single step’.

Well done for spreading the Gospel of Lockdown Scepticism and the Book of the Dangers of the Mask Wearing!

Come to think of it, I may just get him one of those ‘exemption cards’ that he can carry in his ‘back pocket’ (instead of his scruffy mask), although knowing my neighbour as I do, once he makes up his mind he won’t need anything to back it up!

Good idea. I always carry a back up exemption card which I can give to someone if they need it.

People pick up respiratory tract infections (i.e. coughs and colds, sounds a bit less scary) after months in isolation at Antarctic research stations. Viruses are present in our bodies at all times, they attack when we’re weak or stressed.

Turn one person at a time that’s all we can do.

If you use a cloth face covering, say a scarf, bandanna etc, , put it on while in shop for say 1 hour, remove and stuff in back pocket, take it out when home and hang on back of door, it dries out, ( if it got damp), and don’t reuse it for a week – are there likely to be many germs left on it? Genuine enquiry, as read some time back that virus didn’t survive more than c. 3 hours on soft surface, contrary to what we’d been told?

That’s true, but it’s even better if you don’t wear one at all!

Make sure it gets hit by sunshine, UV rays will kill viruses.

Yes it would probably be fine. But it’s not just viruses of course. If it’s going mouldy or smells bad etc then better to wash it!

As the level of insanity ratchets up on an almost daily basis, I am constantly required to re-calibrate my personal insanity-o-meter. Yesterday, I went into full overload and have had to fully reboot. This is what caused it:

On NewstalkFM yesterday (an Irish commercial news radio station with national reach) Professor Luke O’neill was interviewed on the Pat Kenny show. Professor O’Neill is a Trinity College Dublin biochemist.

In 2018 Professor O’Neill, co- founded a private biotech firm called Sitryx and raised $30 million Series A funding from an international syndicate of specialist investors including SV Health Investors, Sofinnova Partners, Longwood Fund and GSK. In 2020 Sitryx formed an exclusive global licensing and research collaboration with Eli Lilly and Company. Lilly also became an investor in the company.

O’Neill is a regular on Irish TV and radio and is a strong advocate of face mask wearing (having previously  said they were “pointless” if not “dangerous”) and the push towards a COVID-19 vaccine. His business interests are never mentioned for some reason.

According to his latest book (more later) he is “Irelands Favourite Scientist”.  This is what he actually said (reported in https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-o-neill-mask-hypothesis-immunity-1075750 ):

–          “We know masks work – the scientific evidence is so compelling now. Anybody who denies masks… show me the scientific evidence against it, because the evidence on the other side is so strong”
–         “You might wonder how the hell can a mask make someone immune. Masks aren’t perfect… so tiny bits of virus get out, and sadly infect someone else.”
–         “But guess what: they have a very mild infection, almost with no symptoms… they don’t even know they have it… and now they might be protected”
–         Professor O’Neill said the idea is ‘a bit like’ how a vaccine works, where people are exposed to a weaker version of the virus so their immune system learns to fight against it.
–         He said: “There’s some evidence to support this. There was an Argentinian cruise ship, and they put masks on people because there was an infection. Of those who did get infected, 80% were asymptomatic.
–         “Anybody who says ‘don’t wear a mask’… tell them this evidence.”
–         He pointed to a recent study involving hamsters, where a mask was put in the middle of a cage. He explained: “The ones on the far side didn’t really get infected if there was a mask between them. There was a very low infection. If they did get infected, it was asymptomatic. That’s animal, not humans obviously – but it’s still good evidence. It’s almost as if a tiny bit of virus is quite good, because it might provoke no symptoms and a bit of immunity.”

Well there we have it. I’m not a scientist so I cannot confirm whether this is total bollocks or not. But O’Neill has a book coming out shortly with the bizarre title of “Never Mind The Bollocks – Here’s The Science” – this is complete with design and logos as per the Sex Pistol’s album (copyright issue?). Part of the overview reads “Never Mind the B#ll*ocks is a celebration of science and hard facts in a time of fake news and sometimes unhelpful groupthink”. That’s ok then – I just wonder whether the words in the title are in the wrong order.

What chance do us sceptics have with people like this around?

It’s bollocks. I can’t find evidence masks work and I’ve spent months looking. There is anecdotal but nothing else.

Where is it? Where are they looking?

Glad someone has mentioned the study involving hamsters on somewhere except here – shows how bonkers they all are if they think it proves anything.

A Professor Chagpor (sp?) Is heard in a UK msm clip saying “masks stop 80% of the virus from spreading”.

The clip is here at approx 25min30sec
https://youtu.be/dXWKZaEA22g

Utter bollocks clearly but that is a figure so it must have a study..?

I think this is a prime example of the “stop 80% of droplets” therefore “stop 80% of the spread” fallacy.

I have been utterly astounded at some of the elementary failures of basic scientific method that have been on display…

Spot on.

DavidC

I am finding the same thing. There are RCTs to show that masks aren’t effective and links provided. The evidence that masks work is bandied about, but I have never seen anyone post a link (except the hamster trial) – they just keep repeating that the evidence is now strong.

Only people he follows or mentions can comment on his twitter posts! There is someone not confident in his assertions I would suggest.

The hamster study is mentioned in the Royal Society’s DELVE report. here’s something I sent earlier to a trade body advocating masks at all times when travelling for tourism:

The Royal Society DELVE report that the UK Government has used to justify face covering legislation is not what it seems. They claim that it says it’s been proven that masks are effective in cutting transmission risk of coronavirus this report has been widely touted in the MSM when in fact the report shows nothing like this conclusion:

They quote 1 study that involved a masked hamster as proof masks work in reducing virus transmission.

How do you mask a hamster? I have no idea.

This is their “facemarks study report”:

https://rs-delve.github.io/addenda/2020/07/07/masks-update.html

They are a data analytical group so no need for medical people, just data analysis.

Few gems from the “report/study” if you can call it that”

• A series of controlled experiments in a hamster SARS-CoV2 transmission model and “the index animal was “masked”
• the majority of SARS-CoV2 infected individuals remain asymptomatic throughout infection.
• There are no human controlled trials on the efficacy of universal mask use in stemming SARS-CoV2 transmission.
• However, the conclusions of this study are not supported by the presented evidence , as summarized by a number of scientists requesting a retraction by the authors.
• This report “is not peer reviewed”.

It was also written by the Royal Society’s president’s daughter.

The Royal Society os bankrolled by the Wellcome Trust and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

Never mentioned that did he in the interview?

If I recall correctly, in that study they masked the cage where the hamster was, rather than the hamster itself, because that would be hard to do.

That’s the one put you only find that out fi you read the complete report with links, not the summary that was bandied about.

So really he’s still talking crap as the hamster experiment doesn’t mimic or supply real life results.

I’ve been wondering for weeks if masks work on hamsters, maybe a business opportunity to make some money supplying covid face protection for pets – only drawback was I couldn’t figure out how to mask a little rodent.

I think the problem is that much of the evidence that mask advocates rely on doesn’t translate well to the real world.

Pretty much all the research (limited though it is) that has been carried out into real world observations has failed to find any link between mask wearing and reduced transmission of respiratory infection.

But you can do laboratory experiments to demonstrate the physical properties of face coverings and conclude that they do indeed filter out x% of particles of various sizes.

The question therefore is why does the latter nor translate into evidence in the former research and I have a hunch there are 3 main reasons:

• people don’t live, interact and catch respiratory infections in laboratory conditions, they do so in the real world so the laboratory model is already poor
• the lab experiments often focus on the direction and distance of droplet spread directly forward from the mouth and nose; again this is a poor model of real world scenarios, but also it ignores the problem that if aerosol (as opposed to droplets) is a prime cause of transmission then they stay in the air for prolonged periods of time and distance & direction are less relevant
• masks are mandated, and people tend to wear them even when not mandated, in circumstances where they are not typically catching respiratory infections ie in public places involving transient contact with others; most infections are caught at home or in circumstances where you are in close contact with others in an enclosed space for prolonged periods of time

None of that says they aren’t effective at all but the reality is the effect does seem to be at best marginal.

I think we have an egregious case of the precautionary principle driving this. As many logicians and philosophers would opine, it is always a risky principle. In particular, it has driven me hopping mad in this case that there seems to be an assumption that face coverings are somehow cost-free when they manifestly are not – they have economic, social, developmental, health etc costs that are simply not being taken into account.

Excellent comment, thank you. My view is that it’s pointless looking for any logic or science behind any of the restrictions because they have been abandoned by those notionally in charge. Therefore, you have to likely to the wider agenda.

Utterly mind boggling to see people wearing them outdoors, but I recently found one chucked away on our local Birkdale Sandhills, where ,indeed fresh air is all around..and much of it.

And, of course, flu is currently killing 10x (I think) more people than Wuflu. Masks are excellent, are they not, at preventing the spread of viruses?!?!

Note the link to vaccines and SV Health Investors:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05235343/officers

The first name rings a bell!

The entire argument suffers from a fallacy of composition. Where’s the massive deflection in the aggregate data showing masks doing some good? There must be one or it is just hygiene theatre.

What they are doing is looking at the current situation and saying “it must be the masks that do that because I believe in it really strongly”. The masks must be stopping deaths and they must be stopping cases.

Then you say “Sweden” and they go all quiet.

Indeed.

Many advocates for hiding your face point to Asia as cuktuak mask wearers and how well they’ve controlled the virus. They can even produce some graphs of Covid-19 and mask wearing in some counties which look impressive.

Unfortunately they are using 6 months of data only and fail to see that despite cultural mask wearing these counties experience huge influenza outbreaks all the time. And have done for a lot longer than 6 months so your data set is thankfully a little more useful.

The masks wearing is a classic case of starting with an answer and walking back to find any shred of evidence which supports it.

Is there an element of good news about this that, if the science becomes more conclusive (a very big if), then wearing a mask protects the user as opposed to current nonsensical trite that they protect everyone else. Would there be an argument that people will be able to make their own decision as what level of risk they want to subject themselves to? Or am I still on another planet?

No – same planet, different world unfortunately.

They’d still turn it round on you and say you are fattening the curve right?

Thought I’d be an awkward git and sent Pat Kenny the highlights of the report that Dr O’Neill forgot to mention.

If he replies I’ll post it.

Couple of comments on this.

First, as Henry (and maybe others by now) have pointed out, if the muzzle protects the user then it clearly becomes user choice as to whether to use one – no room for emotional blackmail here; and no justification for mandation.

Second, the hypothesis concerning a low viral load means ‘people are exposed to a weaker version of the virus so their immune system learns to fight against it’.

Months ago now, probably in May, it occurred to Mrs TJN and I, just from looking at the data, that far from having any beneficial effect lockdowns were actually making covid worse. That was a highly controversial proposition at the time, and we couldn’t immediately think of a mechanism. Then an idea occurred to me, which I posted on one of Dr Lee’s Spectator articles.

In non-lockdown, where the virus is spread on public transport, door handles, surfaces, crowded streets, and so on, a great many people become infected by picking up low viral loads.

A high initial viral load appears to have a high correlation with the subsequent severity of the disease. Thus if lots of people pick up the virus though low viral loads then presumably they will gain immunity at a cheap price. Hence the best way to achieve herd immunity.

In contrast, in lockdown conditions the virus is spread within households more, with the consequential high viral load, and thus more serious illness.

Hence, through the ensuring of high viral loads, did not universal lockdown make the situation far worse than it might otherwise have been?

Excellent point. Well reasoned.

This is what I’ve seen on a good few occasions now where a less than solid argument is put forward to justify some measure or why we need to do this or that.

Yet, because its based on faulty logic, and often designed, it seems to me, to exert power and control for alterior motives, it falls over as soon as that logic is extended to other areas at all.

Painting themselves into a corner.

Think your theory could be right. I’ve thought for a while now that it’s best for people to inhale low loads eg while out shopping.

Low viral load exposure has been my strategy for a while. At first, when I was sucked in by it all, I avoided touching the handholds on buses. Once I realised that a low dose could be good for my immune system, I went back to grabbing them, hoping for a quick top-up.

Our local buses now have hand sanitiser dispensers at the front, which, of course, I don’t use. Actually, other people using the nasty stuff triggers my asthma, which is a different story.

It’s amazing that people like us can work this out, but not experts in the field. Except when it suits their purposes of course – as in the muzzle theory at the head of this thread.

Also, if 80% of droplets are stopped, that makes for a really nasty build up of fully loaded virus behind the wearers mask surely? Would rebreathing that not cause serious issues?

And surely dropping it in the street cannot be good as witnessed by counting at least a dozen during my 20 minute lunchtime stroll on which I also witnessed a couple dressing each other ensuring their matching masks were correctly fitted, very sweet.

If there was a major life threatening disease on the loose and masks did work HMG would be supplying them free of charge not brainwashing the population into wearing them.

That’s why they’re called ‘germ rebreathers’.

A good way of making a mild respiratory infection far worse, and driving it deeper into the lungs.

In the meantime the Irish Gov have unveiled their cunning plan “Living with COVID 19”. It has five levels, with one being the least restrictive (though still with face masks and distancing rules). Each level has a detailed list of rules / requirements. The whole country is currently on level 2 though Dublin has tighter restrictions due to higher “cases” (e.g. the pubs will remain closed unless they serve a 9 euro meal). So level 2.5 then?

The criteria for each level are described in terms such as “low levels”,”stable”, “increasing”, “decreasing” etc. There are no measurable criteria included so I suppose they will make that up as they go along. Levels 2, 3 and 4 have exactly the same criteria but very different rules ?!?! The plan lasts for 6-9 months. It appears that the only exit strategy is a vaccine.

I’m not making this up – check it out here if you have the energy:
https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/resilience-recovery-2020-2021-plan-for-living-with-covid-19/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/en/publication/acc4de-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-10-august-phase-4/

Nothing lower than level 1 which is still hugely limiting so yes, all points to zero covid policy or vaccine as the only route out.

“ There’s some evidence to support this. There was an Argentinian cruise ship, and they put masks on people because there was an infection. Of those who did get infected, 80% were asymptomatic. “

I seem to recall that ~80% asymptomatic was the early estimate for the overall prevalence of the disease, wasn’t it? Dd that change?

The Richie Allen Radio Show.

Last night. Starting at about 10 mins in looks at an radio by presenter Andrew Castle. Firstly Andrew declares himself overjoyed the oxford az trial is restarted then Andrew takes a phone in.

https://youtu.be/dXWKZaEA22g

Outstanding from Rishie Allen.

It was good that.

Yeah, caught the 2nd half last night and the podcast today. What an awful human being castle is, how these people sleep at night is beyond me but I suppose they are happy to suck on the tit of MSM as it pays well and they are not scrutinised.

I agree. And he has a platform like no other but with zero research. He sits there and says he will dance in teh Street when as vaccine arrives but has no idea why.

The words from the ICL Professor supporting Castle were totally scripted. Been trotted out word for word almost across a number of news outlets today.

Thats right. The second only to water for public health has obviously been briefed into the PharmaPawns – experts.

Which shows it is a conspiracy or collusion or collaboration I am not sure which.

Not sure if anyone else has posted this yet but the latest ONS figures released today show a week 36 (to 4th September) number of deaths at 7,739 against a five year average for the same week of 9,182. Wow! And the Covid-19 figures keep falling!

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

DavidC

My local fishing tackle shop owner put this madness into context, he said wearing face nappies and social distancing doesn’t apply if you are close to one of those,pointing to his cash till.

The virus is afraid of money.

Flu Vaccination – I, and I am sure lots of people have been sent a letter about having a flu vaccination from their local health centres. The letter says “You are being invited to attend for your annual flu vaccination. etc. It implys there is no choice. This is something I am not going to do as I have heard and done some research into all the side effects but what intrigued me was the following – “Please ensure you wear a mask or face covering for your appointment – this really helps us stop transmission of the virus”.

Its well known that masks (face nappies) cannot stop transmission of viruses because viruses are too small so they can go straight through or congregate on the mask. I am surprised that the National Health Service believes this when it is so wrong.

I really hope they do not make vaccinations mandatory!

My mum had that letter from our Dr’s as she’s over 70 so eligible for a free jab. She put it in the bin as she always does. Not heard anything more from them.

I was “offered” the vaccination but the look on my face caused her to immediately put a note on my record saying “no vaccinations”.

Does the Flu Shot Increase COVID-19 Risk (YES!) and Other Interesting Questions

https://doctormurray.com/does-the-flu-shot-increase-covid-19-risk/

Work on improving your immune system. If you do not spend sufficient time outside with exposed skin, take a vitamin D3 supplement of at least 10,000IU per day plus vitamin K2 and Magnesium (they all work together). Yes 10,000IU is much higher than the RDA that only prevents rickets. If you spend time in the sun with exposed skin then your body can produce up to 20,000IU vitamin D a day.

It is advisable to get a Vitamin D3 test done (via your GP who is interested in improving your health/immune system) and this will give you a baseline on how high the dose should be. Doctors normally prescribe Vitamin D2 (synthetic and not well absorbed) and sometimes one massive dose per week – not advisable. Vitamin D3 supplements are very affordable and should be taken every day

10 mins in the sun each day.

Fruit and veg.

Lots of exercise.

Don’t smoke.

Drink within the recommended limits.

Laugh more.

Last one is a bit tricky

Perfect advice; 10000iu vitamin D3, 2 grams vitamin C, 50-200 mg zinc. You will effectively be immune from all viral diseases. Definitely a good idea to add vitamin K2Mk7 and magnesium.

I’m taking that amount of vitamin D K2, but only 15mg of Zinc do you think i should take more?

The irony of asking you to wear a mask to stop transmission of a virus, whilst injecting you with a bit of a virus is not lost on me.

“I am surprised that the National Health Service believes this when it is so wrong.”

They are just following orders. It is political theatre.

“I really hope they do not make vaccinations mandatory!”

My MP refused to rule out voting for such a measure, when I wrote to her. What does yours think?

We wrote to our MP a while ago before masks “came in” but never had a reply! So we do not know his thoughts on the matter of masks or vaccinations. He will be written to again – so lets see…..

This is what you wear when working with nasties in lab conditions. Sort of underlines the uselessness of face rags.

I’m having a flu vaccine because they have proved to work. If I get invited to have a Covid -19 vaccine (not that it will happen soon) I’ll say no. Don’t need it heard immunity works.

https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/3021/smpc/print#gref
Is this what some have called the ‘hazard sheet’ for this year’s flu cocktail? I’ve had it a couple of random times before travelling abroad in winter, not consistently though. Never been given any information about it, eg which strains selected for the year, by GPs? Are they supposed to?

I always refused the flu vaccine even when I worked in the NHS. Having said that I’ve also opted out if any of the health screening GPs try to coerce you into having simply so they get paid for meeting targets. Most of the tests generate huge amounts if false positives and cause further anxiety because of the multiple investigations you then end up having. I’m actually seriously considering opting out of being registered with a GP to avoid further shenanigans once a a Corvid 19 vaccine becomes available.

So it is possible to opt out of being registered? I am registered locally now, but I definitely don’t want to be on their radar. I also reject all screening tests since I realised that they’re largely for show. Health theatre.

I’m looking into whether you can opt out of being registered with a GP. I once accidentally got my name removed from the practice I was registered with by returning one of the health screening invitation letters with No Longer At This Address on the envelope. Didn’t realise until I went to make an appointment some 12 months later. Legally I don’t think anyone can be forced to register with a GP although if you have health issues or are on prescription drugs you don’t have any choice.

See how much the BBC “talent” get paid for following government dictats and lying to you

and if you want to see how much management get paid see here

Did not renew licence at end of August and do not miss it at all.

Thinking of doing the same can you remind me of what I can watch? Can I also listen to radio?

You can’t watch live TV or the BBC or BBC iplayer (no loss). You can watch the other channels on catch-up and you can listen to the radio.

I recommend ditching your licence (I did) – you will feel better and be > £150 better off each year! Plus, there’s the added satisfaction knowing you are depriving the BBC of a bit more cash.

You can also watch DVD/BlueRay recordings and streamed content via Prime, Netflix etc. I am not sure about live streams, I think those might require a licence.

The TV Licence Resistance Forums are a good resource in respect of going legally licence free

https://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/

Hi, No live TV at all. Use catch up services for all but the BBC (You can’t use iPlayer to watch TV)
However according to TV licensing “No, you do not need a TV Licence to listen to the radio (including on BBC iPlayer).”
Not missed BBC at all, all other channels that I want so far are available as “catch up”. Found some interesting stuff elsewhere on the Net and already had Amazon Prime (Fire TV).

Ditched my license in April. I’m not paying for propaganda being piped into my home.

Maybe of interest to readers here:

House of Commons

Science and Technology Committee

IMMEDIATE RELEASE—15 SEPTEMBER 2020

Evidence Session Thursday 17 September at 2.30pm

This session will be available to watch on parliamentlive.tv

On Thursday 17 September , the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee is to revisit its scrutiny of coronavirus testing and contact tracing as part its inquiry into UK Science, Research and Technology Capability and Influence in Global Disease Outbreaks . The session will focus on:

the effectiveness of the NHS Test and Trace programme;

the progress made in developing digital contact tracing solutions; and

possible strategies to prepare for the winter months.

The witnesses for the session are as follows:

Panel one (at 2.30pm)

Professor Carl Heneghan , Professor of Evidence-Based Medicine & Director, Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, University of Oxford

Professor Sylvia Richardson CBE , Director, MRC Biostatistics Unit, Cambridge Institute of Public Health, University of Cambridge

Dr Thomas Waite , Director of Health Protection, Joint Biosecurity Centre

Panel two (at approx. 3.15pm)

Baroness Dido Harding, Interim Executive Chair, National Institute for Health Protection

Simon Thompson, Managing Director of the NHS COVID-19 App, NHS Test and Trace

Dr Susan Hopkins , Chief Medical Advisor, NHS Test and Trace

Panel three (at approx. 4.15pm)

Lord Bethell of Romford, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care

Further Information: https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/135/science-and-technology-committee-commons

Follow us on Twitter: @CommonsSTC

Committee Membership: http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/science-and-technology-committee/membership/

Specific Committee information: scitechcom@parliament.uk / 020 7219 2793

Media Information: Emily Pritchard pritcharde@parliament.uk / 07734 974 282

Heneghan mentioned on ITV news last night with the quote from the presenter “Heneghan asks for these science as there is none” or words to that effect.

Now he’s on a Select Committee panel.

maybe the tide has gone slack and is getting ready tot urn.

Well on the turn! lol

Straight in the diary, wondered when they would resume, thanks.

Wow.

“Andrew Selous (Con) asks if the UK can learn from what happened in Sweden.

Hancock says he has looked closely at Sweden. He says in Sweden people followed social distancing guidance more closely than in many other places, even though the rules did not require that.”

So Hancock is suggesting that the UK population CANNOT be trusted!!

Wow…

The man couldn’t lie straight in bed.

What he says may or may not be true, but as far as I know the Swedes did not force businesses to close (other than I suppose ones that rely on very large gatherings – they are going up from 50 to 500 soon).

And they did not mandate masks, or close primary schools (I think secondary schools may have closed for a while, not sure about Unis)

Anyway, if he can’t see the value of letting people determine how to behave for themselves he has no business being in democratic politics or pretending to be a Conservative

I think Whitty suggested that the social distancing was beginning to have an effect before lockdown.

How does he know that? Has he spent several weeks in Sweden watching people?
That man cannot string the simplest sentence together.

Hi all

Does anyone here work in the area of “whistleblowing”? You know, official, serious whistleblowing and all the official processes and protections that gives people confidence to come forward.

Thanks

Is that whistleblowing for Civil Servants? Maybe try this:

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing

Or look at the pdf (from 2014) you get if you google: Whistleblowing and Raising a concern Procedure for Civil Servants

Uk column might help with advice if i understand your situation.

Contact Simon Dolan at Keep Britain Free.

I’ve written to my MP, I’ve exempted myself from wearing a mask, I’ve stopped clicking around the news websites and reading comments, I’ve boycotted Twitter, youtube and now the Co-op (for having in-your-face, eye level, close-up, i-pad screens saying “Recording” with a movie of yourself while you’re scanning your groceries at the self-checkout), and I’ve attempted to (and failed) to convert Covie zealots. I think I’m at the point where all I can do is take a step back, get on with my life, and watch from a safe distance as governments around the world dig deeper and deeper into the massive pile of horse sh*t they have created. Otherwise I’m just another victim.

You have done well. Keep it up.

I have dumped Waitrose for having over zealous door guards working on behalf of the Government to enforce masks. Moved to Ocado (now providing M&S products, no longer Waitrose products) and what a pleasure. Still frequent Morissons (no mask enforcement) for a few small things.

Look after yourself above all else – we are all needed in top shape for the long haul

Completely right, Norma. I’m converting masked sheeple by letting them know about the exemptions (most people have no idea they exist) but it’s a slow process.

I noticed those recording screens at the Coop – really disconcerting. Another reason not to go there.

Bureaucrats ‘deny the evidence, Hydroxychloroquine reduces COVID death by 73 per cent’: Craig Kelly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVD76yu0Vc

Sky News Australia

Liberal MP Craig Kelly says studies have shown a 73 per cent reduction rate in mortality where Hydroxychloroquine was dispensed to COVID infected patients, yet Australian health bureaucrats continue to deny the evidence. Mr Kelly said on Thursday an Italian peer-reviewed study showed a 73 per cent reduction of mortality where Hydroxychloroquine was administered.

A further study from Saudi Arabia produced the same figure – Hydroxychloroquine caused a 73 per cent reduction in death from COVID. He told Sky News host Alan Jones early in the coronavirus pandemic period, doctors were free to prescribe Hydroxychloroquine to patients for off label use. “It’s a drug that is lawful for doctors to use,” Mr Kelly said. “We’ve got health bureaucrats in this country who think they know better than thousands upon thousands of doctors all around the world, and have banned this.”

He said despite studies showing incredible results from this previously legal drug, the Queensland chief health officer “has not only (made) it illegal, but put a six months criminal penalty if a doctor prescribes it or if a chemist would dispense it to a Queenslander”. “We’re talking about people’s lives here … a 73 per cent reduction, and we’re getting study after study after study after study, all showing the same result, but we’ve got our health bureaucrats digging in because they’re afraid to say ‘hang on a minute, we’ve made a mistake’. “They deny the evidence that continues to roll in day after day.”

Some people actually have to go to jail over this.

Wrote a reply email to my mp today saying that Bozo, Wancock and Shithouse should be up for murder after this is all over. Not in those words obviously.

The anti-lockdown movement seems to be divided here between those who believe the government is an incompetent rabble who don’t really have a clue what they are doing and those that think that they are a very competent and intelligent group of people hell bent on the creation of a new world order.

I belong to the former group.

Those that believe the latter seem to base it on the notion that governments couldn’t be so stupid as to now know what they are doing. After all, many of them have degrees. Some of them even have degrees in economics.

Actually, many of them have legal qualifications, as the making of laws is one of the primary functions of parliament. (They are supposed to discuss these matters at length first though.)

Toby Young has recently posted somewhere a discussion regarding the subject of intelligence. His late father, a socialist had different views on the subject to Toby, a conservative. Now I’ve only had time to listen to half of this, but nowhere in the discussion was there any mention of what intelligence actually is.

How do you define “intelligence”?

Do you define intelligence by IQ tests? They may measure a certain type of intelligence, but, for example, I’m not sure that musical or artistic ability are well represented by these tests.

Perhaps you might define intelligence as the ability to pass exams. (I must be rather intelligent on that basis), but is that a good measure? Maybe you were ill on the day of the exam, but sat it anyway? Maybe the marker was a light touch and gave everyone good grades?

And does quantity trump quality? Does having nine “C”s make you more intelligent than someone with 5 “A”s?

You might be great at English, but poor at Maths. Which is the more important measure of intelligence? Mathematical ability or linguistic ability?

It’s not as easy and straightforward as it is often made out to be.

Perhaps you might want to define intelligence (if you are a woman) as the ability to be a good mother? Perhaps if you are a man you might define intelligence as the ability to “pull” women. It’s something many men wish they were better at. (Myself included). But there is no exam for that. I once had a friend who was shorter and uglier than I am. But he was great at seducing women. I was (and remain) fairly useless at it. (My father once remarked that women are “funny creatures”. I tend to share that opinion.)

So an experienced biochemist might not necessarily be more intelligent than an inexperienced biochemist. But they would probably be better at their job.

It is my personal view that a great deal of what passes for innate intelligence is actually learned. But how you can measure how much is innate and how much is learned? That is not easy to say!

The democratic system doesn’t select people for their ability to make good laws and to exercise common sense in policy making. It selects those who, like Boris Johnson, are good self publicists, or those who are loyal to their party.

In a “safe” seat it probably wouldn’t matter much who you put up for election. Do people go through the CVs of all election candidates to see who might best represent them? Or do they instead vote for a particular political party, or on the basis of whether they like the party leader?

This is why, in my view, we are in this mess!

I agree with regard to MPs and their quality/suitability. A house of independents may struggle to get anything done, on the other hand, though maybe that wouldn’t be such a bad thing. Who would do the research and draft and formulate policy? Maybe divide the house between independents and party members. It would be awkward as I think the independents would get pushed into declaring broad support for one or other party at election time.

We have differing views as to the reasons behind this all, yes, but I like to think that we are united in a common belief that what’s being done is very wrong, and think when dealing with non-sceptics we should stick to a core message in order to better sell it.

I think the Johnson is in many regards a skilled politician – in the pure sense that he has achieved challenging political goals. He’s the only Conservative to win the London Mayoral election; he was instrumental in winning the Brexit vote; he won the Conservative leadership; he out-manoeuvred Remainers (with ruthlessness ejecting MPs and skirting around Parliament re prorogation last year) to deliver Brexit via a landslide GE victory.

Are we now to believe he really is just an utter buffoon with no clue what’s going on? And the same goes for everyone advising him?

I’m still not sure – but the longer this goes on the harder it is to believe it is just basic idiocy.

The lockdown zealots are shifting the goalposts daily. The “long covid” narrative; the “Sweden did actually lock down” narrative. Eventually, when it is obvious to everyone that any second wave is going to be negligible and, largely, an artificial creation, I think the Johnson will save his skin.

Johnson knows he got it wrong in March. He’s looking for a way out without obviously reverse-ferreting. Trouble is, I don’t think he’s got the boots for the puddle of shit he’s standing in, so he’s more like a rabbit caught in headlights.

Sometimes do nothing, or do as little as possible, really is the best option. Johnson is far from the only politician who needs to learn this lesson.

Still, I made the prediction of the 5th October for all this to be over. I’m having a chocolate hat made, I’ll obviously have to eat it, barring a miracle and I don’t like the taste of cloth. That’s why I don’t wear a muzzle…

Ha, good idea on the hat!

Seems then when Johnson is in a hole he calls in the JCBs and doubles-down on the digging. Hopefully he’ll the magma soon.

True in that it doesn’t seem to be very intelligent to want to make others lives miserable deliberately. You would have to be very sure that people would not reach anger/breaking point or that when they did you the person responsible would be well out of harms way.

They are out of harm’s way; the Prime Minister has bodyguards. We not only do not, but we are forbidden to apply for a Firearm Certificate on those grounds, nor can we hire armed bodyguards, no matter how rich we might happen to be.

I am with you on the incompetent rabble theory but I think they secretly know they have messed this up and are, as Lord Sumption has pointed out, now desperate to cover it up by perpetuating continued fear and by lack of openness. Deaths used to be reported with details of age, health etc. Now you have to search even for numbers. I also think there is a big element of arrogance here – they think they are cleverer than everyone else and that their incompetence and attempts to cover it up will thus not be noticed.

John, I agree with some of what you say, and disagree with other parts. In my experience, it is usually not certain which of the two positions are more persuasive unless, and until, you can see the whole picture. It is also the case that what starts off as an almighty cock-up, morphs into a deliberate process. There is a great article written many years ago by strategy scholar Henry Minzberg (‘Of strategies deliberate and emergent) that describes two ends of a continuum along which real world strategies lie, and this provides, in my view, and interesting perspective on what may be going on here.

I don’t agree there are two positions , I believe there are three. The third position is that the publicly elected politicians are bumbling fools, and those who hold the power are the unelected bureaucrats and organisations like the UN, WHO and Council on Foreign Relations.

Add in a world bank or two and some serious money I like this option of 3.

I think it’s a bit of both.

The incompetent’s panicked, the cabal saw the once in a generation opportunity was right to put their plans into place and then used the incompetents to facilitate it as having intelligent people in charge they would have seen through everything and the plan would have failed.

Agree – I don’t think there is some masterplan conspiracy, but there are certainly people using this opportunity to push their own agendas (that probably overlap in many cases) whether that’s council jobsworths, BLM, vaccine producers smelling a few quid to make or tin-pot dictators like Kim-Jong Dan.

Another possibility is that the incompetents have spotted an opportunity created by their earlier mistakes are now pursuing some other agenda.

correct in that the government is incompetent and most politicians are a self serving waste of space .
However you can then see why others with a bit more nouse might be taking advantage of this incompetence and leading us on somewhere else

Aye, everybody with an agenda loves a crisis. As well as the climate mob, vaccination mob, whichever mob, you get the conspiracy theorists who think some shadowy organisation is behind everything, planned it all to the nth degree, pulls the strings of the world’s politicians, yadda, yadda, yadda.

The climate mob have a manifesto, whether you agree with it or not, and it is quite plain and open. The vaccination mob have a manifesto, whether you agree with it or not, and it is quite plain and open. The crypto-Communists or whoever have a manifesto, also quite open.

But the conspiracy theorists? I don’t doubt their passion or belief, but I’m yet to hear a conspiracy theory that actually makes strategic sense.

you ask good questions. Personal experience recall (but not me personally) – local political party cronies chose not to select the candidate for the Conservative safe seat here in East Yorkshire – someone who would have ‘served’ his constituency well and with sincerity and intellect and hard work (this was back in the 1980s). Reading Isobel Hardman book last year on ‘why we get the politicians we deserve’ highlights the corruption, the nods and winks, the greasy palms and the sheer personal dislike that crept over the 30 odd people who chose the uninspiring and invisible candidate over a August bank holiday weekend on behalf of 40,000 houses. Reading the diary extracts from the wife of whoever Hugo is makes me think we really all get the politicians we deserve and it is not a good place to be. Almost all incompetent, inept & pretty useless from where I’m looking.

I agree with the possibility of your two scenarios but would like to add one more? Is it I agree with the possibility of your two scenarios but would like to add one more? Is it possible the big decision makers in our government might simply be bedwetters themselves? We’ve read accounts on this website from lockdown sceptic doctors, head teachers, etc, who report that many of their own colleagues are terrified of this virus.

I had some fun with googling-up numbers of people affected by the range of underlying health conditions the NHS list as putting people at moderate to high risk for the virus (diabetes, obesity, lung disease, heart disease, over the age of 70, etc) and it adds up to about 30,000,000 people (or diagnoses) in this country. There will be many government ministers/”leading” scientists who have one of these underlying conditions Anyway, just another desperate grasp at trying to understand why we’re still in this lockdown mess!

I think the government panicked and by the time they realised they were to far behind the narrative with the full backing of the media to change tack. I think the response since then is to try to gauge public opinion and act accordingly .I think another problem is political opinion world wide and what’s happening with the American presidential election. A few months back when Trump was against masks the democrats decided they were for them and i believe through social media this argument has influenced mask policies everywhere.Trump fearing it might be an election issue changed tack and said he was not against them and they were patriotic Johnson in turn to hedge his bets on the changing scene decides there the way to go.Is Johnson now seeing action by governments in Europe and not wanted to seem to be standing still reacting to events again ,thats my guess.There is no conspiracy but it is still tyranny and we the people need to bring this fool to account as soon as possible .

Had an enjoyable pub lunch last Friday. The Landlord and his wife did not wear masks. ‘Great’, I thought. Some common sense prevailing here. Those waiting on table all wore plastic visors, bar one who had a mask. The only waiter wearing a mask took it off when he returned to the bar, only to put the same mask back on again when approaching a table.This on/off routine went on at regular intervals for about 90 minutes, whereupon we left.

As my dining companions are all hardcore Covid Bedwetters who believe masks will save the human race and cannot wait to get in line for an untested, unlicensed vaccination, I smiled to myself, said nothing and continued to enjoy my meal.

Thankfully, there is now beginning a pushback for masks in health and shop settings following from Awkward Git’s advice.

The wife just told me of one.

It basically is a refusal to wear a mask because the risk assessment isn’t there for what happens if you get ill from wearing the thing. Essentially the Greater Harm condition.

Glad I made a difference.

Considering the “Precautionary Principle” is the be all and end all then we should use it ourselves regarding the dangers of masks.

Indeed. You could say a mask builds up a “Bacterial Bomb” that you then let loose in your house or in your car or any enclosed space. The irony being that human skin has a way of limiting the amount of infections you can spread. Like a mild form of antibacterial or antiseptic.

“Coronavirus vaccines being developed in China may be ready for use by the general public as early as November, an official with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said.”

So we can’t trust 5G from China, although we actually will still be using Huawei even though they say we aren’t as the ban doesn’t come into place till 2027 and the entire 5G infrastructure will be built by then! But we can trust a vaccine made by them which we will all have to have injected inside our bodies.

I thought I read yesterday that China weren’t going to bother vaccinating because SARS-CoV-2 has pretty much disappeared?

The quote doesn’t say their population. It may mean it will be ready for sale to other countries for use on their populations. The Chinese are great at manufacturing and selling things all over the world, so why not vaccines?

I’ll just say that in my part of the People’s Republic of Scotland, friends, who have rigidly stuck to the rules so far, are not with the rule of 6. Still wearing face masks, but it’s a start!

Would that be because it’s 8 in Scotland, or have I misunderstood?

It is 6 in Scotland but young children are exempt.

In all my 76 years, I have never lived in a period when my fellow british man and woman, excluding those contributing to “Lockdown Sceptics”, have failed to question a governments motives and actions. Perhaps what appears to be the majority, are enjoying if not possible martyrdom, then the possibility of I’ll health.

I also detect a certain level of virtue signalling with those who proclaim that they’re having to “self isolate.”
Or am I misreading this??

They’re doing their bit and saving granny.

agree.

also brag about positive tests

I think there are some people who like to think they are living through momentous events as it makes their lives more interesting or meaningful. I think they are mad, but each to their own. Just don’t impose your madness on me, thanks.

I was thinking this the other day. Perhaps people’s lives are so boring and devoid of any self-imbued meaning that they look to ‘momentous’ outside events to make it more interesting, make it feel as if they’re living through a ‘crisis’ they can tell their grandchildren about, or make themselves the protagonist in their own personal disaster film. Maybe this is why so many people are so eager to comply with and even enforce (e.g. snitching on neighbours) the Covid diktats.

They may not have been looking for it, but some have certainly embraced it when it came along

I was thinking similar thoughts the other day. If asked in the future how I survived the great pandemic of 2020, I’ll probably say it was all bollocks. I’m sure there are people out there who will tell an Epic story of how they isolated for months but caught the plague, came close to deaths door for months but just about made it through.

It is a kind of war.. but not a WAR.

Hopefully we’ll still be around to laugh ourselves senseless at them.

Amen to that!
“How I Did My Bit By Heroically Wetting My Knickers Under The Bed.”

Spot on Julian. Life was too easy for most people, and then suddenly it wasn’t/isn’t.

Someone mentioned 4 horseman Coaches for the Diamond Princess passengers.

I found a story with photos showing this is correct and there were 4 coaches but it was hard to find, I had to use duckduckgo with Japan as there region for it to appear and then ti was only 1 hit:

https://cbwmagazine.com/horseman-coaches-transport-repatriated-british-citizens/

Why did they use a company named “Horseman Coaches” to ferry coronavirus suspected passengers from the Diamond Princess? And why 4 coaches?

I know the story says 5 coaches were used but there are only pictures showing 4 of them.

And why 5 for 83 passengers, surely 2 or 3 at most were required?

Coincidence?

One of those things?

Or trying to tell us something – 4 horseman of the apocalypse?

Aren’t the 4 horseman Death, War, Famine and Pestilence?

This is a pestilence, famine has been predicted this winter by the WHO and the war drums are beating for a showdown with China and Russia.

The company was “Horseman Coaches” and the famous photograph was for the coaches bringing the quarantinees to Arrowe Park Hospital in the Wirral.

The scummy police put cones out along the approach roads, thinking that there would be a huge “anti-quarantinee” demo, but instead the people were met with presents and gifts of toiletries (a huge amount, I saw the piles of stuff that were donated) and the local Red Cross kept an eye on things, as some of us thought that there might have been a risk of the people “disappearing” if the disease turned out to be particularly virulent.

I went and bought the first lot a couple of cakes to celebrate their release. The government, of course had been advised that there was a danger of plague, and that’s why they chose the Wirral; if you look at the map, you can see that it would be relatively easy to seal off the Wirral Peninsula.

The company is named after its founder – Joe Horseman.

Horseman Coaches is a local firm here in Reading. They got quite a lot of coverage in the local press at the time.

Sky reporting: “ The growth in grocery sales slowed in August, with shoppers spending £155m less in supermarkets amid the government’s Eat Out to Help Out scheme .”

Was it really the Eat Out to Help Out scheme, or was it in fact because of mandatory muzzling which has made it less inviting to just pop out to the local Tesco Express (other brands are available) or changing to online shopping and not buying the impulse items whilst in the store?

I didn’t join the “Eat out” campaign, as I don’t want to get involved in any mandatory mask situation, or being bossed around under CV19 rules.
I also haven’t been to any supermarket store for the same reason. MOH goes and doesn’t allow me to go in case start an argument. That’s saved us money, with a lot less spent in the supermarket with me not there and picking up additional stuff to buy.

Note: MOH loves chicken.

I’m getting very, very bored with chicken….

MOH does all the shopping as well as I can’t tolerate being muzzled for that long. Then he constantly asked me if we have this or that, to which I answer, “You do all the shopping so why are you asking me whether we have this or that?” So no impulse purchases happening for us either, but we do switch up the proteins!

I didn’t Eat Out either. Can’t stand the regimentation and the masks everywhere, so I’ve eaten at home every day since the beginning of this mess. ASDA brings my shopping once a month and I eat fresh veg from my allotment. Now that I’m used to cooking for myself again, I don’t plan to go back to eating out. Plus I’ve now lost over 7 kgs (intentionally).

No one in our household has been in a supermarket since 22 July – all grocery shopping is now completely on-line. Much more efficient and organised, no impulse buys or “better buy this in case we have run out”. The prospect of wearing a muzzle (or more precisely having to argue with people because I won’t wear one) has put the kybosh on visits to shops.

That is exactly what has happened with me. Saving £20-£30 a shop through click and collect. Must be costing the supermarkets a fortune because there is no way £1.50 will be covering the cost of the picker etc.

Make it up in volume!

Footfall in our store has been noticeably down since the mask wearing started. Not really a surprise, the store is near the town centre and is heavily reliant on passing trade and who wants to go shopping or into town with the mask requirements? People continuing to work from home hasn’t helped either.

I have noticed that even supermarkets have been quiet with some dead. Mandatory muzzling has a lot to answer for as one checkout assistant has admitted to me as much.

I still go into supermarkets but have mastered the blitz shopping which means that I can get my shopping done within 10-20 minutes depending on the length of my list.

Invitation from local opticians for me to arrange an overdue appointment; however, all the usual dreary instructions are in place : telephone assessment to see if I’m a dangerous bug spreader; carefully timed appointment and ‘face coverings’ must be worn.Sanitiser, temperature check etc., patients advised to attend on their own.

Admittance by prearrangement; no walk ins.

Face coverings! When will this stop? I could walk in with a piece of cloth suitably placed and allowed to proceed, whereas if I appear, face bare, breathing freely, the consulting optician can refuse to see me, claiming safety concerns.

Doesn’t anyone ever read the multitude of papers which question the need for these wretched things?

Secondly local beautician, whom I’ve known for many years, now thinks that anyone without an exemption badge should be challenged-(I was wearing mine).

I explained that this is not enforceable, and that furthermore, holders of exemption badges are not obliged to reveal the reasons for exemption.

She pondered this , but then went on to say that she was now thinking of wearing one indoors- meaning at home!

I realise that small business owners are essentially stuck between a rock and a hard place, as far as all this control creep is concerned, but the avid conviction and enthusiastic compliance are firmly embedded here in Sturgeon land.

Very demoralising and I won’t bother with the bossy opticians.

I’ve never worn glasses, but my close up sight deteriorated during lockdown so I made an appointment – that took 6 weeks to get one. To be fair to the ophthalmologist, she was fine and I invited her to remove her mask when we were in consultation, and she did. I received a prescription for some readers and the sales assistant offered to lend me a facemask so that I could check what frames might work with it – I kid you not! Regardless to say, I made my excuses and left.

Good for you. I don’t think that mine would be so obliging; notice on the door -‘Face coverings must be worn’.

No ifs, no buts.

Sturgeon can stick her diktats where the sun don’t shine.

Avid conviction and enthusiastic compliance is unbelievable here, well actually, now that I think about it, not really. The Scottish population has been one of the most aggresively propogandized nations on earth. We are nothing more than a proving ground for their diabolical plans. A cesspit of paedophilia, Freemasonic control of all the levers of state, religious division, racism (anti Irish racism and bigotry openly tolerated and encouraged), alcoholism, cocaine-ism, tobacco/weed smoking and addiction, dumbed down education, trash TV, poverty through the roof, children going hungry, suicides through the roof….need I go on?!

The sooner that wee Jimmy Krankie tin pot dictator and all her cohorts are swinging the better as far as I am concerned. Traitors the lot of them to the people.

I will never acquiesce to any of it and will tell anyone who tries to convince me otherwise to Eff Off. It’s time folk got a backbone and started doing the same.

SAOR ALBA

Cheers
B

That’s why as a Fifer i call for Independence for Fife. We’re Picts and Scotland and all it’s bullshit can bugger off.

My eye test at Specsavers a couple of weeks ago was more or less normal. You had to use the sanitiser on entry (in fact THEY squirted it on your hands), all staff in muzzles and smocks, but otherwise no different from normal. Not a word about me sans mask but with a prominent lanyard.

I’m thinking of switching to Specsavers, so thanks for this. Only problem being that I’ll need to brave a short journey by Scotrail, which has an extensive list of rules and deterrents for heretics like me.

In my town we now only have one sandwich shop which prepares sandwiches to order. It is very small premises and they have a notice they demand doctors note from people without mask.
Never liked them anyway, so will never shop there again.

How not to run a business.

Discrimination and harassment.

Someone mentioned earlier the 6 months Limitations on proceedings for going to court after refusing to accept a FPN or caution.

This legal age says that is correct for certain offences:

https://crimehome.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/6-month-limitation-period-in-the-magistrates-court/

General rule s.127 Magistrates’ Court 1980
The prosecutor has to inform the magistrates’ court by issuing a charge, summons, postal requisition or a complaint within 6 months of an offence being committed. This rule means that the magistrates’ have no jurisdiction to deal with a case brought more than 6 months after a crime has occurred.

The rule is in s.127 Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 .

So clog up the court system.

The police can’t caution you without asking you whether you will accept it. Just say NO and clog up system.

In the meantime the Irish Gov have unveiled their cunning plan “Living with COVID 19”. It has five levels, with one being the least restrictive (though still with face masks and distancing rules). Each level has a detailed list of rules / requirements. The whole country is currently on level 2 though Dublin has tighter restrictions due to higher “cases” (e.g. the pubs will remain closed unless they serve a 9 euro meal). So level 2.5 then?

The criteria for each level are described in terms such as “low levels”,”stable”, “increasing”, “decreasing” etc. There are no measurable criteria included so I suppose they will make that up as they go along. Levels 2, 3 and 4 have exactly the same criteria but very different rules ?!?! The plan lasts for 6-9 months. It appears that the only exit strategy is a vaccine.

I’m not making this up – check it out here if you have the energy but I need a lie down:
https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/resilience-recovery-2020-2021-plan-for-living-with-covid-19/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/en/publication/acc4de-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-10-august-phase-4/

Ha ha vaccine? Yeah right. In this mess forever, just as planned! Glad I am 68 and not 28, at least I have had a life. Not wishing it to be over of course, I am still fit and well, but you know what I mean. Life has changed – forever. But we will continue to fight for a return back to the good parts of the old normal as quickly as we can.

Did you see the Oxford University professor of vaccinology when interviewed earlier? She must’ve said the words safe or safety about 50 times in the short interview. I think she’s trying to say it enough times so that she herself will start to convince herself that it is safe!

If *this* is ‘safety’, give me danger any day …

I’m with you! I don’t understand how people can’t do a simple risk assessment — take my chances with Covid and have a 99.5% chance or recovery or take an untested, rushed-to-market vaccine with unknown and potentially long-term side effects?

Exactly. I take risks every damn day and I don’t need some bloody MP waffling on about keeping me “safe”.

Instructive now that a lot of my customers (the ones I am accused of wanting to kill) are the ones who are totally fed up with all this crap. Thrilled to see today several who were masked-up a few weeks ago come in mask free. And … look a damn sight more cheerful to boot.

Have you got a link?

DavidC

All the repetition of “safety” that has been going on for months always makes me think of Knight and Day with Tom cruise, where if they tell you you’re safe and secure, they’re going to kill you…

Do you think that they think people are too stupid to see what is happening in Sweden?

That can be the only conclusion sadly which therefore doesn’t give much hope for an alternative way out of the COVID prison.

Some are. Some don’t want to see. I mentioned Sweden’s success to a friend and was sent back a two-month-old interview with Tegnell in which he admitted they could have done some things better. I think she thought that dealt with the Swedish Question. Sunk cost fallacy I am afraid.

Hi mate

the end game has always been the vaccine, all the rest is just smoke, mirrors and window dressing.

People need to take that next step in their evolution of mind and realise that this agenda has been their all along. Once you do, and you will, then a lot of the queries, why’s?, and what for’s? will be answered.

I’m afraid that people are goping to have to come to accept that there is a cabal of extremely powerful individuals dictating this agenda to all their subservient and bought and paid for acolytes in the government/media/police/etc carrying out their will, by force if necessary. We are in the midst of a technocratic, fascistic takeover of the entire planet and population to install and surveillance/police state to the point where you are no longer a human being and are answerable to AI, connected to Kurzweil and Google’s SMART grid by direct interface with your mind and ultimately just an automaton software programme who will no longer even think unapproved thoughts because you will be part of the hive mind. They call this moment, The Singularity.

These people are extreme Psychopaths and do not give one shred of thought to what they do or how their actions impact on peoples lives….in fact, the more misery, suffering and death they can create then the more they get off on it.

Yes….The tin foil hat wearing ‘conspiracy theorists’ were right all along!

Amazing how there are so many of us now!!

Cheers
B

I disagree. The end game now for our government is to stay in power, and enjoy the easy power, lack of scrutiny and the feeling they are doing something noble, and to cover their backsides. Others may have the end game of a vaccine, but I don’t think our government does. If they did, once we have a vaccine it will end there. Having an indefinite public health emergency is much better for them.

You think?

It has already been ‘suggested’, Pre-emptive programming more like, by key stakeholder Gates that ‘we may need more than one shot’…..this will go on and on and on if they are allowed…until the depopulation agenda is satisfied mate. It’s about more than governments holding onto power I assure you.

Cheers
B

I don’t buy it. These buffoons are not sufficiently organised or visionary.

It’s important that the anti-lockdown cases focuses on violation of personal freedom rather than conspiracy theories backed up by circumstantial evidence or worse, anti-Vaxx and 5G arguments.

The personal freedom angle is something we can all coalesce around, whether Left or Right or moderate.

You’re assuming that the buffoon politicians are making their own decisions.
i have known this is about the vaccine and immunity ID’s from the start. There is just so much evidence of the gain of function research being offshored to Wuhan. And so much evidence that those in the know, knew exactly what was coming. The politicians are just tools (maybe both types).
Moderna started their vaccine research in Spring 2019…
https://youtu.be/E6-WM-gj_FM?list=WL&t=227

Fair point BUT – the buffoons don’t need to be organised or visionary because they are only the puppets in all this; they are not writing their own script.

Exactly mate, well said.

Cheers
B

Would you have asked the same question about ‘violations of personal freedoms’ 6 months ago? indeed, would you or did you question any of it at the start? or has it just been lately once the ‘official’ data itself has showed it’s all bollocks?

I’m not asking you to buy it anyway, all I would say is….keep an open mind and don’t respond with reflex impulse.

‘conspiracy theories backed up by circumstantial evidence or worse, anti-Vaxx and 5G arguments’ ….now that’s interesting. A lot of people would say that most of what is being said on here would fall under that category!

There is more than circumstantial evidence around both of those topics. FOr example, do you have a vaccine injured family member? Probably not, I do. As for 5G, what part of military developed microwaves not being dangerous to the human body and mind don’t you get? DO you have any clue as to how the technology actually operates and what it can do to a living cell at the frequencies companies are wanting to use?

I would suggest some reference material which is widely available online to apply some due-diligence of your own to.

But you made it on here so well done for the effort, now keep asking more questions and do your own research.

Cheers
B

Ok I will keep listening.

But the easier argument is about loss of personal freedom. This is a self-evident phenomenon – the masks, the metres, the ‘six’ nonsense – which everyone experiences every day. Whereas it is harder to convert people on 5G and vaccinations since they are more abstract concepts and require a lot of research and judgement.

It may be more pragmatic just to put the latter arguments to one side for the time being.

Like nailing Al Capone for tax. Yes it would have been nice to have got him on murder and everything else he got up to, but they got him into jail on tax. Easier to prosecute and the same desired result.

Couldn’t agree more mate. As I heard it put the other day…..Let’s just storm the hill first and we can sort out the rest of that stuff once we get there!

This is just the catalyst for wider change and growth.

All the best and keep questioning and speaking up, take the flak and derision on your broad shoulders and keep on moving forward and speaking the truth.

Cheers
B

Conspiracy theories can only ever be “theories” as the powerful entities that execute them are hardly going to broadcast details of their dirty deeds! Are you saying that circumstantial evidence should never count for anything??!

I’m with most of what you say here and have been from the beginning. It’s always been a case of wishing that the alternative voices were wrong (I doubt it) or that the mainstream narrative would crumble (Still possible). Seeing the Irish Gov plan today (and the UK stuff) removes any doubt about the permanence of their “new normal” mantra that they warned us about from the beginning.

BTW I don’t agree that the vaccine is the end game – it’s just a (highly profitable) enabler to all the other agenda items.

Well I agree there, perhaps I should have worded my reply differently. It is one of many end games. It is the end game however, for this particular stage.

The End End game….well….not sure many on here are ready for what that is!! Let’s just say, it’s not a thriving civilisation built on fairness, justice, human growth etc!! Think Star Trek’s Federation but more Sauron’s Vision!!

Cheers
B

Does it genuinely believe these rules are cost-free?

Pubs in Dublin still closed. Guess how many died of the virus in the Irish republic in past 24 hours. Yes, you guessed it, exactly none

Most beautiful day. I at this moment stopped by the side of the road in a pretty countryside spot. Up ahead is nothing but blue sky and road. To my left cast aside into the grass. A used mother ducking surgical face mask. I’ve just made a video of it. Not sure why, I am not on social media but just seemed symbolic of this entire farce to record it. I can’t realistically pick the bloody thing up. But of course I will….what a world.

Makes a change from used doggy bags I suppose. Both disgusting. I am a dog owner by the way but do not use the handles on the bags to loop over twigs! Doggy bags are put into my pocket until I find a bin, they make a great pocket warmer in winter!

True. Too true. But what are we “good citizens / non minglers” supposed to do ? Masks should be worn only by those who are ill or infectious so you can’t pick up the mask. But let’s be honest no council picks up littler in the countryside. So it’s going to sit there for how long ? It’s so ridiculous

I’m exactly the same. On a few occasions I have forgotten about the poop in my pocket and then put on the jacket the next day and wondered where the smell was coming from! Once you’ve done that a time or two, you never do it again.

Every time I take the dogs for a walk I’m finding discarded masks all over the place, and there is no reason either as I’m walking in the countryside so people shouldn’t even be wearing the bloody things!

Must admit I have not seen a single one up here on Dartmoor. Only ever seen one person wearing one, and he did the COVID shuffle when he saw me LOL. Generally masking up outside in rural Devon is still rare.

On the verge outside my home this morning:

Yuk yuk yuk.
We found one on a cliff top.
Yukyukyukyukyuk.

Same thing in the farthest reaches of Cambridgeshire this morning.

Why does the BBC website always show schoolchildren wearing vile de-humanising masks? Anyone would think it was propaganda?

BBC wouldn’t do anything like that, they are the purveyors of truth!

Ah OK. I’ll pay more attention then. Good old Beeb, a National Treasure

There is a radio ad for Trusted PPE at the moment that carefully implies that all schoolchildren require a mask in order to attend school.

I’ve heard that, makes me want to puke

Advertising Standards should be all over that. A simple read of the law would suffice.

This chart shows Covid deaths 0-17 in English hospitals until 12th Sept. There have been 20, 16 of whom had pre-existing conditions. I think a good proportion of these poor kids were already in hospital when they caught the virus.
I’ve plotted this against the 5 year average for road deaths, this is for all GB under 15 year olds. Which averages at 52 per year, 1 per week. Actually this amazed me when I think of the number of kids I’ve known who’ve been killed on the roads.
I guess if I’d had road deaths for up to 19 year olds it would have been say 15% higher but equally if I had just England road deaths it would have been 15% lower, so it’s probably about comparable (England has about 85% of the UK population).
Anyway, the point is really that if you’re a parent of a school age kid then you should take comfort from the fact that if your child hasn’t got underlying serious health problems then there really isn’t much to fear and also that the chances of your child being killed on the road (about half the road deaths are as passengers in cars) is remarkably low.
It’s also worth noting that there hasn’t been a child death of any sort since the middle of June.

I’d say lol, but it isn’t. Makes the pervy bar staff using t&t data to contact people they fancy look almost acceptable:

Public Health Wales posts personal details of positive Covid people online: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/public-health-wales-data-breach-coronavirus-patients/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020200915%20%20House%20Ads%20%20SM+CID_9ae3829e0c1b9cf91349186f76afdc30

One of my regular customers came in today to ask what we were doing on Friday. She is very uneasy about her elderly parents’ details being retained. We told her that we would be doing the the very bare minimum of what was required as we were also really uncomfortable about taking customers’ personal details.

You could mention that you have heard of – gasp – *some people* giving false details…

Are you bugging my shop?

I do mystery shopping, dressed as a little old lady…

Can homework eating dogs eat gestapo ledgers? Sometimes things happen and books go missing.

Pretty sure some other countries have had severe problems with this, harassing, stalking, esp ones where people had to leave comprehensive details – Police telling young females ‘just block a phone number’ is useless when they had to leave an address at a restaurant, and now face in-person harassment cos someone at the pizza parlour passed some details to all and sundry …!

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya talking sense in an interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1998&v=T_COvdCujaA&feature=emb_logo

Just returned from a sortie into my town of Otley to get a minor scratch on my car sorted. Garage owner, a lovely, easy going chap told me to leave the car with him and he would polish it out within half an hour. Walked around town engaged in one of my favourite pastimes—people watching, and these days it’s a fascinating activity.
At one cafe, with tables outside, people were standing without masks. Then, after having decided to venture inside, would don masks and go to the counter. They then took off their masks to order and stayed mask free at their chosen table. Would they put their masks back on to negotiate the terrible, covid infested ten feet or so on their way out of the cafe? I didn’t hang around to find out.

Just around the corner, in the arcade, is another cafe which has actually formalised this ritual. A notice outside says ‘please wear a mask’ and as soon as you get in another notice says ‘please remove masks to order’. I didn’t see any other notices saying please replace mask to find a table but I did note that people sitting inside and outside were mask less. So, it would appear in Otley at least, Coroni has found its favourite breeding/infection ground which lies somewhere within a five to ten feet area situated between the entrance and the serving counter and as long as you are masked up in that danger zone no harm will befall you.

Next stop was the public library which until fairly recently has been closed. The door was open and I walked straight in, I didn’t see any notices. Immediately a young lady came up to me with her clip board and visor and first asked me, very politely, if I had a mask. ‘I;m exempt’ I replied just as courteously. ‘That’s fine’ she replied ‘but could I trouble you for your name and ‘phone number for track and trace purposes?’. ‘I’m only here to use the loo’ (which was true) I said with a big smile and she replied with an equally big smile ‘That’s OK—it’s not up to me I just have to ask these things’. On my way out I looked over to her, smiled and thanked her for her help. She smiled back through her visor. A nice girl I thought, well mannered, only trying to do her job in difficult times.

Teales the bakers have a notice outside that says ‘no mask no entry’. In I went, mask less of course. Lady behind her plastic wall gestured to her face and said ‘have you a mask’? ‘I’m exempt’ I replied and ordered four granary rolls and a jam tart which were duly served up no problem. Teales only accept cash which gives them an up tick in my book.

Back round to my garage where my car was ready and the scratch completely polished out. Owner wouldn’t accept any payment for such a small job and masks, distancing, and all other covid related rubbish was completely non existent. This bloke has adopted the ‘Harry Hopkins’ method of doing business—-do small stuff for nothing or near to it and the customer will come back with big jobs which will pay your way and enhance your reputation. For this, the garage deserves a plug: Woods Forge Garage–Otley. Great service, quality work, great prices and normal attitudes.

It’s dawning on me after going through easy going/angry/ and back to easy going that easy going is best. If challenged about my masklessness, I used to get mad and could quite easily slide into confrontation mode. Now I don’t, I just say I’m exempt and be as pleasant as possible with it. Anger is a very bad emotion, I’m finding I can maintain my anti lock down scepticism and all it entails, if I keep my cool and smile as much as possible.

I tend to stick to my usual of treating people how I’m treated if a polite person instructs me to wear a mask I politely tell them I’m exempt if a maskzi shouts at me I tell them I’m fucking exempt and give them the evil eye.

It does bug me being asked, as far as I’m concerned if a person is not wearing a mask they are exempt no need to ask the question but I suppose that defeats the purpose of being able to control us.

Track and trace in the library ? Must be a Judith Blake edict.

OK, I laughed out loud when you described going into town to get an errand done a “sortie.” That’s what life has become now — a series of sorties just to do normal, mundane things. I guess, to keep the analogy going, I’m hunkered down in my bunker because I won’t wear a mask. Hubby does all the basic shopping and I get everything else I need online. With mask compliance at 100% here, I really don’t feel like going to battle over a loaf of bread.

I hear you, Lisa, I’m very much the same – I only go to my local petrol station each morning for a coffee, and they are all happy enough to see my smiling face (I’ve trained them well!) But the thought of going into any shop for the first time and not knowing what I’ll be met with just makes me nervous, so I avoid it as much as possible. That being said, when I’ve had to venture out to the shops (getting shopping for my elderly neighbour, for example), I haven’t been challenged, and I usually end up having a laugh with some masked person or other. So I need to keep reminding myself that the thought of going out unmasked is pretty much always worse than the reality. And I go on a charm offensive too – I always smile and say hello to everyone I meet, masked or not, and that often surprises a hello in response. And it’s rather hard to come back after that and have a go at me for not wearing a mask…;)

There’s much less compliance in the UK and very few challenges to the claim of exemption. Our stores have gotten around exemptions by offering curb side pick up, delivery, and the like. So I believe they can refuse entry without a mask because they offer an alternative. It’s a sneaky workaround but it allows them to keep masking mandatory while still offering those of us who can’t/won’t mask up an alternative to shopping in person. My understanding is that our only recourse here in Canada is to launch a human rights complaint or take the individual store/business to small claims court. If enough individuals went to small claims court the business would have no choice but to retain legal counsel and spend money to defend each individual claim. It’s a great strategy but there’s not enough momentum here in Canada, sadly.

Wow, I didn’t realise it was quite so strict over there. At least in the UK the exemptions are included in the legislation, and you don’t need proof, and no one should even ask why you’re exempt. Not all shops understand this rule though, so I take great pleasure in sending them copies of the relevant legislation, and pointing out that they are in breach of the Equality Act 2010 if they either refuse entrance for not wearing a mask, or ask what the reason is for not wearing on.

I really do hope that more people in Canada band together and challenge the laws. It’s starting to happen in the US, so perhaps the momentum is building ( https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/judge-strikes-down-pennsylvanias-pandemic-restrictions/ ). Until then, thank goodness for this website – at least we know we’re not alone out there, and sometimes it can certainly feel like we are.

I laughed myself when I read your comment about my ‘sortie’. My dad used to tell me that during the war, when he was a skilled RAF mechanic employed on maintaining and repairing Spitfires and Hurricanes, how brave the ‘brylcream boys were. These ridiculously young men used to wait for their scramblers to go off and then race for their planes, take off and fight the Jerrys. These were known as ‘sorties’.

Now I wouldn’t dream of comparing our lives to those of the Brylcream boys, after all their chances of survival were about one in three whilst in the face of coroni our chances of survival are about, umm, umpteen zillion to one. Never the less, just like the ‘few’ as Churchill called them, we sceptics are in the minority and fighting to preserve our way of live against the odds. Could it be that we sceptics are the modern day equivalent of the Brylcream boys? (I would include the term brylcream girls but I’m sure brylcream and girls hair have never been acquainted).

My local library is not quite so easy going. We have a ‘click and collect by appointment’ service, which although ridiculous is better than none as we rely heavily on library books.
Today we were in town so I popped into the library as I knew they had a book my daughter ordered but hadn’t yet made an appointment to collect it. Walked in, asked if I could please make an appointment to collect said book (I could see this book on the shelf behind library guy) ..was told I would need to phone up to make an appointment for a quiet time (couldn’t get much quieter, there were no other people in there, no one waiting outside either). Attempted to talk reason with the guy, could I not save myself the cost of a phone call and make appointment now? (thinking just pass the darn book over for jeepers sake) Eventually he agreed I could take the book now. Beyond the plastic screen where I was waiting I could see tables of books with ‘quarantined on such and such day’ labels on them. It’s all so ridiculous and nonsensical..

I also was much more confrontational at first but now am only in their face if they are other customers .Normally when dealing with the shop assistant i am very polite unless they seem to question me saying exempt ,whereupon i just say do you not understand what exempt means. I’m finding most shops are understanding the exempt rule now and i also feel that a lot more of the punters who thought mask wearing was a bit of fun or some new fashion are bored with it now .I went around the shops with a friend the other day who thought making a pirate mask was great fun a few weeks back,by the end of the day she was hot and bothered having to arrange her mask at every doorway and was getting pissed off with it as i strolled in .It’s no longer cool and she is getting an exemption card as she said it now makes her anxious .

For those who didn’t read Lord Sumption in the Sunday Times:

“If one thing has become clear over the past six months, it is that aggressive measures of social distancing make little difference in the long run. They buy time, but reduce deaths only if they last indefinitely. Even buying time comes at a heavy price in depression, mental illness and misery. Ministers were warned about this by their scientific advisers in February and again in March. But we have a government that lurches from pillar to post, surprised by every development, even those that it was warned in the clearest terms to expect.

Every day that passes bears out the warning. Spain took the most extreme and brutally enforced measures in Europe. Sweden had the mildest measures: no lockdown or school closures and only moderate measures of social distancing. Yet Spain now has the worst second spike on the continent and Sweden none at all…..

…..The only way of eliminating Covid-19 is to achieve widespread immunity. That requires either an effective vaccine or a build up of resistance through exposure to the disease. Without (the vaccine) we are condemned to take the slow route through exposure to the disease. The more time we buy with our distancing measures, the longer that will take. Christmas? Easter? One year? Two or three? For how long can we suspend human civilisation? “

He has been rock solid from the start. Fearless, eloquent, consistent, knowledgeable, astute.

The Richie Allen Show yesterday had Vernon Coleman giving some comment on what is happening to children. He reported suicides, the largest cause of death in under 16s is up 50% on 2019 figures.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0915/1165339-cso-census-2021/

They aren’t planning on relinquishing control anytime soon.

Government Comment: “Averting a second wave is a key priority for the government and high take up of a vaccine when available will greatly contribute to that.All vaccines used in the UK are thoroughly tested, meet strict safety criteria and are carefully monitored after they are introduced into the national programme. Our evidence-based immunisation programmes are informed by the advice of our work leading expert committee – the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI), which reviews a wide range of scientific and other evidence, keeping the vaccine schedule safe and relevant.”

In answer to the government’s reply – there is no scientific evidence of a second wave of Covid 19, as the testing for Covid is faulty and case numbers cannot proven. Secondly, although the vaccines are said to be tested carefully, the trial by Astra Zenica is continuing in the UK, despite a dangerous reaction from one of the participants and it is still paused in the USA for further investigation. Until all the countries testing this vaccine are able to approve a continuation of the trial, it seems very dangerous to continue the trial in the UK, therefore going against the government’s commitment for safety of patients. This does not encourage belief in this vaccine that could cause much harm to the people being tested, never mind the millions the government wishes to inject. Too little is known about this vaccine and its ingredients and too little time seems to be taken to ensure it is safe or even worth developing, for a virus which may be something humankind can learn to live with, like a common cold. Forcing people to accept such a vaccine in unacceptable.

Scientist who fled China publishes research claiming COVID-19 ‘created in military lab’
A LEADING Chinese scientist has published research claiming the coronavirus came from a military lab in China and not from a wet market.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1335700/China-coronavirus-cover-up-scientist-military-lab-wet-market-where-did-coronavirus-start

Denise Welch furiously lashes out at Matt Hancock as he addresses rule of six ‘F**k off!’

DENISE WELCH – actress, presenter and panellist on Loose Women – has hit out at Health Secretary Matt Hancock after he reminded Twitter users about the new rule of six, which was put into place yesterday as coronavirus cases rise across the UK.

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/1335724/Denise-Welch-twitter-Matt-Hancock-rule-of-six-coronavirus-news-latest

express celebrity-news/1335724/Denise-Welch-twitter-Matt-Hancock-rule-of-six-coronavirus-news-latest

Sky News Australia seems to scent blood on desperate Dan, the Aussie Labour covid c**t:
Daniel Andrews will ‘decide to go’ by Christmas: Peta Credlin

And this is how low, and outright dishonest, political scum like Andrews will go, trying to turn a protest story back on the protester by waving the shroud of his father (who died 4 years ago!) to try to pretend the protester was somehow “dragging his family into it” by putting boots outside a barn that happens to be one that reminded Andrews of his father.

This, of course, is cynically manipulative shedding of crocodile tears for the camera, on Andrews part, and he should be brutally mocked and ridiculed for it, not have his mendacious bullshit taken seriously by media outlets. Downright Blairite, in its contemptible dishonesty. Not sure why the Mail seems to be giving it credence in this way.

The cruel reason why this photo of gumboots outside of a farm shed caused Daniel Andrews to explode in anger, saying ‘shame, shame on him, shame’

Mrs Tenchy works in a school. She’s told me of the utterly stupid antisocial distancing measures and other idiotic protocols that have been introduced. I won’t go into details here, but suffice it to say, the children care nothing for any of this. On their way to school and when they leave, there is a refreshing contempt displayed as they, en-masse, totally disregard anything to do with antisocial distancing and the “rule of bollocks”. I can confirm this situation, having just been out as the local secondary school disgorged hundreds of pupils onto the streets. There was no regard whatsoever to the Hysteria and no evidence at all of antisocial distancing. In fact, quite the reverse, for most of them. I like it.

I agree. Watching school chucking out time and playgrounds is generally one of the best antidotes to all this rubbish.

I hope they don’t all have grannies!

I think they have worked out that they don’t get ill from this virus. Most probably don’t know anyone who has died from it. (I know one who is in the official death toll, but she died of cancer)

Matt Hancock reminds us that evil men so often look very ordinary.

 We should keep contacting the police to say that we’ve seen cabinet members socialising in groups of 7.

…. including a gimlet-eyed fanatic who’s clearly up to no good.

Heinrich Himmler looked quite ordinary.

I quite like Charlie Brookers description of him that he looks like your sisters first boyfriend with a car. My question is does he have a reflection in a mirror? Someone needs to check.

Will their defence be that they struggle with numbers?

Hannah Arendt’s “the banality of evil” personified — which includes most (if not all) of our elected officials and all of the non-elected public health monsters.

Hahahahahahaha. Have you seen this absolute balderdash from the transport Secretary (reported in The Telegraph live feed):

Graffiti ‘putting people off returning to railways after lockdown’

Railway graffiti is discouraging people from going back to the office after lockdown, Grant Shapps has claimed.

Oh, so it’s nothing to do with antisocial distancing, face nappies, the proliferation of high-vis Hitlers and all the rest of the Hysteria? All of which help to impart a massive sense of abnormality to everyday life. No, that’s nothing to do with it! Bloody graffiti, that’s the problem. What a tosspot the man is!

He’s just trolling us now.

Words of a desperate or deluded minister.

No, Grant most organisations decided not to open their offices as the government continue to implement non sensical rules. Also we are all waiting for all government employees to return to work and set the example.

Yet they laud Banksy!

What, the graffiti that’s been blighting London and other cities for at least 40 years? Blimey, I wish I could have used that excuse for not going into work when I used to commute …

I remember Peter Simple describing the work of the Master of Paddington. Come to think of it, I remember the work of the Master of Paddington

FAR AWAY IS CLOSE AT HAND IN IMAGES OF ELSEWHERE

I found it inspiring …

Sadiq Khan said something to the effect a little while ago, not long after it was announced that knife crime:up; robberies:up; 6-700 acid attacks per year.. but Khan wants to get to the nitty gritty – it’s all because of those “racist murals”.

It’s all them aerosols wot dunnit.

Also it’s too expensive and my employer won’t let us come back to the office, which is the main (or only) reason I’d use the train.

Really??

Maybe I should use that as an excuse to avoid going to work. That said I will be laughed out of the office and handed my P45.

What a nincompoop!

In the area where I live there have been consistently between 5 and 10 cases per week for weeks (months). Now that the schools have gone back there have been, this week alone, five schools in the local area with 1 or more positive cases. Could this be explained by the PCR test picking up other coronaviruses which cause the common cold? We all know that in September when the kids go back it’s snotty noses galore. Now, teachers and parents are panicking and getting their snotty kids tested and they’re positive. Where I live people haven’t been overly careful. Masks are not worn properly, pubs are heaving. Why would the opening of schools have this effect when pubs had none?

Agree. Why do they test kids when it is clearly just a cold. The amount of money wasted on non value add things are massive.

The government paper mentions 3 symptoms but it seems as if school/parents only take a high temperature into account. I wonder if they all work on the same temperature 38 or anything lower?

Even if they test positive what does it actually prove or how is the person helped, as they aren’t rushed straight to hospital and given emergency medical treatment to rid them of “the rona”. Really identifying cases is meaningless.

Yes, that’s absolutely what is probably happening. There will be some kids who had the virus and may still have RNA fragments that will show positive but they will not be infectious. Also, because the common cold is also a coronavirus, the PCR test could come back positive, especially if the lab has set the amplification threshold high (over 35). This video has been posted before, but in it he talks about how other coronaviruses are likely being picked up by the PCR test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh6VnB7JvW0

Positive tests up again. The medico-fascists in charge of the country will be having an orgasm right now.

My wife has just been allowed to visit her aunt, who is in a care home, for the first time since lockdown. Despite the fact that her aunt has dementia and is hard of hearing, they still forced my wife to wear a face covering, making interaction even more difficult than it would have been anyway. They were already outside and sitting two metres apart.

How can people be so foul?

Coronavirus in Africa: Explaining the bogus ‘viral blockers’ worn by some politicians
Courtesy of our wonderful BBC..

I thought it would be an article about masks .
But it is not .. Apparently people wear bleach impregnated no entry signs. Which are probably as effective as masks.

further comment on BBC. There was also a page on animal extinction . (following the Attenborough propaganda).,
A lot of comments about human population growth and need to reduce the population
I added a comment “A lot of people have commented about the population being too high. I assume they will do the noble thing and take the first steps themselves”.
Comment was blocked. Interesting to see the email i got

“Unfortunately we’ve had to remove the content below because it contravened one of our House Rules.Your comment was considered to have broken the following House Rule:
“We reserve the right to fail comments which…
Are considered likely to disrupt, provoke, attack or offend others
Are racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit, abusive or otherwise objectionable
Contain swear words or other language likely to offend””

For those that have always wondered what drives the BBC this is their house rules

Doubt if many of the comments on lockdown sceptics would get past these rules (and the way the BBC interprets them!)

Almost everything posted on BBC comments offends me

Offends others = offends people who think like people who work for the BBC

oh I don’t know the figures for Africa are negligible-maybe they should send some viral blockers to Oceania

Rant.
Scottish Mafia have realease their new improved covid fairy tale numbers. Oh, by n by they lopped 200+ off the in hospital stats because they had been dishonestly fiddling the figures and quite frankly fucking over the public with their bullshit numbers. Why believe these now? Crooks scammers and viscious souls the lot of them. Any one who thinks they belong in holyrood ought to be ashamed, eithrr side of the cess pit.

I laugh at your pompous self indulgent seriousness niccerla. You need to go.

Scottish numbers: 15 September 2020
267 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 3.6% of newly tested individuals (may not reflect the total number of new cases*).
1 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
6** people were in intensive care last night with recently confirmed COVID-19.
48** people were in hospital with recently confirmed COVID-19.
17,074 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results (may not reflect the total number of new tests*).
* The data reported today may be incomplete as a result of a backlog of test results accumulated in the UK lab network. Work is underway to urgently address this issue.

** Due to the previous inclusion of people who are no longer being treated for COVID-19 in number of people in hospital, from today this is a new measure that only counts in-patients who have first tested positive for COVID-19 recently. An accompanying blog explaining the change has been published.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

I was telling this board about this figure fiddle months ago. Crap me. Me without a qualification in numbers nor a niche in highly paid government, nor anything that resembles raw data. This is not error or mistake this is long deliberate scheming by dirty grubby men and women.

200 deaths left in the figures to make it look bad as not fucker was dying – and no fucker woukd finished one or two off as was so dearly wanted by the rulers to make the figures look scarey.

40 in hospital. For months with an odd one or two deaths all summer.

Under 45 in Scotland 2 dead in total from Covid alone – as reported on desth certs. Trust is long gone from snp shit show.

How dare they rule our land?

Professor Heneghan has been a beacon of light and truth in this whole sorry fiasco.

Interesting thing to me was they are claiming in the explanation at https://blogs.gov.scot/statistics/2020/09/15/counting-people-in-hospital-with-covid-19/ that they have known there was a problem with figures since 26th August but only admitted it after the Prof queried it on 2nd Sept so she stood up for several days and read out figures she knew were inaccurate (by more than 80%!) and said nothing. Absolutely shocking.

It was noticed long before. And the journalist acted as though all was good.

If there was a valid opposition they’d pounce on just that sort of thing.

200 people lopped off – 200 people recovered and no nhs press release no political celebration.. nothing.

To be clear everyone knows more about this than me. But I was saying after using my head that the long term hispital cases had probably recovered but remained in hospital with real long term issues. This is the case.

Reading/inferring into that senario, covid19 infections have been overcome in 200 instances where patients have had serious other health issues. This is quite a thing to keep quiet.

Apologies for my rant. I am pissed off. As we all are.

They added the * next to patients and how they would update the numbers 10-14 days ago. they FINALLY managed to get the “correct” numbers!!
Fucking 2 weeks??? Did one person physically go around all he hospitals and interviewed every patient?

It’s about keeping the numbers high, they needed the test cases to bulk up before they corrected the hospital bed numbers.

I had a free coffee voucher from Paul’s which was expiring tomorrow so I decided to take myself to Central London where I redeemed my voucher and even got two slices of cake for Mr Bart and myself. I was unmuzzled but staff served me without any questions, in fact no-one was muzzled.

Took coffee to a nice square and had a relaxing time with my drink and book. On the way back I walked past Waterstones, a branch which had a second hand book section, I didn’t go inside but they had some books outside, one caught my attention and I bought it since it was very cheap and it was my specialisation.

Looks like Waterstones have done a partial U turn as I could see no arrows, no social distancing stickers and if there was any hand sanitiser then I couldn’t see it. Best of all was a sign saying that they also welcomed people who didn’t wear masks.

Taking my book inside to pay, the guy behind the till took my book and had no qualms as well about taking my loyalty card as well to scan it. Although he was muzzled, we had a nice chat where he said that they have been quiet but are hoping that when universities open they will have more customers than usual.

Ended my walk to Lidl to pick up a few things – it was fairly busy and a few customers and some staff were not wearing masks.

Perhaps the tide is indeed turning and many businesses are now quietly dropping the “Covid safety” measures.

Well one can hope.

A nice day out. Hopefully not pure luck that signs of insanity were few and far between.

At school pickup one mother said to me that she was coming round to my point of view on it all. She looked knackered and fed up. I said it was a mental illness not a virus. She agreed.

Even the ‘sensible middle’ who followed the measures hitherto are now showing the strain after such a long period of restrictions and now the ‘six’ nonsense.

If the middle cracks, there could be hope…

I think that mother is pretty much articulating what many people are thinking especially if they’re noticing as well that the narrative is falling apart and while they know of people who have lost their jobs or died or are suffering from untreated illnesses they don’t know of anyone who has had the virus much less died from it.

The “six” nonsense could be the tipping point as is furlough ending soon.

I feel hopeful too. Yesterday I visited the dentist (said no to mask and having my temp taken by forehead ‘gun’) no issues there. Today went into several shops and also had no issues/comments/people asking me to put a mask on. Maybe, just maybe things are looking up? Can we hope ?

I think we can. Perhaps more and more people are getting fed up and businesses are also waking up to the fact that treating potential customers as biohazards won’t result into a sale and even alienate them for life.

I read your report and thought, “Oh, how lovely!” Then it occurred to me how ridiculous this situation is that simply writing about going into a coffee shop and buying something without incident is some kind of victory. Can you even imagine posting such a thing 7 months ago? Among all the insanities, this one irritates me the most — that boring, simple errands have now become an obstacle course and so fraught. In the old days going into a store and buying food for dinner was something we didn’t even give a second thought to, let alone something we’d report on! Please don’t get me wrong — I love reading about these experiences of normalcy, I just can’t help shaking my head about how insane it all is. I’m totally jealous as well — I almost had such an experience last week, but it’s pretty much unheard of here as compliance is 100%.

I was just about to compose a very similar reply!

I agree. At the best of times shopping can be stressful but even more so now and that’s why boycotting has been my default position. I don’t want to put up with this insanity but equally I do from time to time engage in a little bit of guerilla warfare – go into a few stores unmuzzled and see what they will do.

I also think its reaching the point where even shop staff are becoming demoralised and fed up as well. I do sympathise with them as I work in the heritage sector and more or less are in the same boat with them with our dire visitor numbers.

Never been a huge fan of shopping myself. But would enjoy taking my kids in and spoil them with a toy, ice cream, see what’s on around. Not now. I take them to the local parks and forests/beaches. I will not have myself or them in masks.

Agree. I don’t really love shopping but love browsing through bookshops. However during this insanity, I have been giving them the wide berth and vowed never to return until we return to how it was in February 2020!

Went to a national tyre centre to get a puncture repaired. Got asked by a Member of staff who was a grumpy git around 60’s if I had a mask and when I said I was exempt said ‘have you got proof?’. At which point I was about to show him a clenched fist, but said ‘yes!’ and he stomped off. The manager appeared (unmasked) and from then on everything went perfectly amiable. Sorry folks, I’m not seeing any let up in Covid panic compliance idiocy yet!

Seems to vary from place to place. Central London is pretty much a ghost town and I suspect the partial U turns from shops are down to the desire to make any sale no matter how derisory especially if they don’t want to go under.

It seems that the 15-30 are compliant as they don’t know any better and have been taught not to question but don’t confront you but just let you get on with it.

That reasonably affluent, mostly educated 60-70 age people seem to be the most scared and the ones who will challenge, say it about “their safety”, mutter at you and make snide comments behind your back but not really openly challenge you and back off when confronted.

This is also the post-war group that started the mollycoddling of kids and so on (I know, not all of them and not those on here etc but generally) and had it all (figuratively speaking) of good pensions, reasonably secure jobs for life, worthwhile careers, decent health care, affordable housing, the start of all the modern gadgets, easier international travel and so on – the me me me generation I think of these and these are the ones who will be the snitches and so on.

I agree. I live in a village in an area where there are many that fit this latter description. They have nice big houses, are retired on a comfortable pension and get their weekly online Waitrose shop and they treat these restrictive measures as a slight inconvenience no more. They are still after 6 months turning into bushes and flinching when you walk past them and 100% mask compliance. I don’t trust any of them to not snitch when it comes to the rule of 6 and even felt the twitching curtains last March when goodness I went for 3 walks and not just 1. Wonder how they will feel when they can’t get their op any time soon, their pension pot has gone down, it’s too cold and damp to prune their roses all day long, they can’t get to their bridge class due to more than 6 and can’t see all of their grandchildren for Xmas lunch etc. And oh heck they can’t get to go on any of their 5 holidays/year abroad without having to quarantine on arrival and return. I don’t mean to sound bitter but they do seem to be very brainwashed and very selfish.

I have been having very similar thoughts to you both. I know we shouldn’t generalise but it really does seem like suburban/rural ‘baby boomers’ (our generation) are the worst offenders. It’s as if they’re almost enjoying all this – why not, they have hardly been put-out, as you say. Not yet.

We’ve had it all, all our lives, many of us, and now with so many of this age-group on fat pensions, we have the luxury of indulging our fear and specialness by cowering away from a virus which seems to be less serious than bad flu and, of course, embracing masks and snitch culture to do our bit for society.

I don’t blame the kids, either. They are the product of the creeping infantalisation, obsession with safety and dumbing-down of society which has gone on for decades now.

The enlightenment for the ‘victims of comfort’ is going to come at a very heavy price – for everyone. And contrast their attitudes with people slightly younger, or even quite elderly, who are still at work. They are much more sceptical and tearing their hair out trying to keep small businesses going or already facing redundancy.

AG and I have always been out-of-step with our peers, often accused of being ‘Communists’ (we’ve never even supported Labour) and now it seems we’re far-right conspiracy theorists. It is not comfortable – never has been – but we are cursed with an inability to bury our heads. MW

Agree with the three of you. The attitudes you describe I witness them first hand with many of my work colleagues of that age group – they seem sympathetic with my predicament (difficulty over lockdown due to living in a not so good area) or why I don’t wear a mask in my face but their real attitudes come out on social media

I also encounter the same attitudes in surprise, surprise supermarkets like M&S and Waitrose. I’ve caught a few of these boomer lockdownistas tutting or glaring at me and I usually fight back by staring back at them or in the case of one tosser calling him a “wanker” and telling him to mind his own business. I notice that that they don’t expect someone like me who is a BAME and a woman to fight back much less swear at them and they shrink back.

In the end I won’t trust any of them. The culture I come from always valued seniority and old age but I’m sorry to say, many of today’s boomers don’t deserve respect much less reverence. They will get their comeuppance at one point and I shan’t feel sorry for them.

I am well off and haven’t suffered much from the lockdown at all; well, apart from my daughter’s graduation ceremony being cancelled. I work from home, have a big house and a beautiful garden, and my investments have gone up. So I ought to be a smug git. But I am continually depressed and seething with rage. It’s the feeling of the ground collapsing beneath my feet; the old idea that I lived in a free country and an efficient and generally sensible country has been destroyed. I haven’t worn a mask yet and unless forced I never will.

I knew a lady like that once.. Had r oom for a pony. Bucket she called herself.

Sadly I fit bang in the middle of your 60-70 group, around here it’s those much younger than me that jump into bushes. I even had a young mum and two children (one in a pushchair) play with the 4×4’s in the road to avoid me when cutting the grass.

They’re known as kwikshit for a reason

Assuming it’s them of course

You’re best off with an indie. We have a few who will visit in a van, repair a puncture & balance if necssary. Think i paid 35 quid last time

Always great to hear such stories!

Thanks Annie. I had a good day today over all