2020-09-15

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/09/15/latest-news-135/
Published2020-09-15T08:22:15
Last updated2020-09-15T13:00:12
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:05
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131159 matt, replying to matt, 6, #1 of 1090 🔗

First!

131164 ▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #2 of 1090 🔗

By a country mile.

131486 ▶▶ PWL, replying to matt, 7, #3 of 1090 🔗

“‘Covid-19′” – please note the use of quotation marks – is a disease that doesn’t exist. It is an umbrella term for death from other causes that have been designated to give the impression of the existence of a virulent plague.”
Covid-19 in a nutshell

132281 ▶▶▶ nfw, replying to PWL, 1, #4 of 1090 🔗

Exactly. I try to explain to the sheep that the common cold is a “covid” (coronavirus identified) but it doesn’t seem to sink in.

131169 Jimmy, replying to Jimmy, 55, #5 of 1090 🔗

Does anyone else think that if we lived in a normal world, the public would be able to go face to face with these people making such big decisions on our behalf and call them to account?

Why are these people only ever coddled by the BBC, SKY etc?

Let’s put Hancock in front of people who’ve suffered and see him defend his policies.
It’s crazy how protected they are when making such massive changes to an entire country!

131235 ▶▶ Bob, replying to Jimmy, 26, #6 of 1090 🔗

How about putting him in front of the families of all those his policies have killed

131634 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bob, 11, #7 of 1090 🔗

How about putting Hancock and Johnson in front of a firing squad. They are both guilty of treason, as well as murder.

131287 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jimmy, 11, #8 of 1090 🔗

Yes, like have these people walk among us not bunkered in behind layers upon layers of security

I think that has an effect on their mentality and policy.

Simply picturing the scene of matt hancock in a regular locals pub talking through his plans and having general pleasant chat makes it clear something isn’t right.

131397 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Basics, 6, #9 of 1090 🔗

Exactly. In the days when the King had to advance in the vanguard of his troops, war was seldom declared. When the politicians ( and their sons ) never walk onto the battlefield, it’s much easier to go to war.

131309 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jimmy, 14, #10 of 1090 🔗

Indeed, though I remember a time when at least some journalists would give politicians a hard time about the real issues, journalists and politicians on both sides of a given issue.

This time round, there has been no debate because they all accepted, or pretended, for various reasons that there was/is an emergency akin to wartime during which debate should take second place to “fighting” the virus. Even if the virus represented an unprecedented threat, which it doesn’t, it’s really stupid to treat the challenge as some kind of battle that requires merely sacrifice and grit and doesn’t require an intellint, reasoned approach.

131379 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jimmy, 12, #11 of 1090 🔗

The only thing Hancock should be in front of is a firing squad.

131452 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #12 of 1090 🔗

Please pick me please pick me please pick me

131529 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #13 of 1090 🔗

I’ll do it and won’t even charge petrol money if you add in Johnson, Whitty and Vallance.

131638 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #14 of 1090 🔗

Oh yes!

132194 ▶▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #15 of 1090 🔗

And Cumming!! Especially Cumming! And Gove.

131551 ▶▶▶ djc, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #16 of 1090 🔗

too humane. Should be socially distanced: two metres of rope from the top of a lamp-post.

131636 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #17 of 1090 🔗

Too bloody good for him. He should spend the rest of his worthless life in jail. Muzzled of course.

131644 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to paulito, 5, #18 of 1090 🔗

In solitary isolation.

131637 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #19 of 1090 🔗

Sorry, I didn’t see your reply and posted something similar above.

131416 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Jimmy, 3, #20 of 1090 🔗

He can’t even manage a radio interview without stuttering

131437 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to tonyspurs, 6, #21 of 1090 🔗

Should be done in public in Parliament Square

131446 ▶▶ Penny Fulton, replying to Jimmy, 2, #22 of 1090 🔗

The only answer to everything is to change public EXPECTATION :
Vis : To Expect to elect POLICY : not persons / ‘ parties ‘ ( sic );
To EXPECT to ( nominate and ) APPOINT SACKABLE facilitators of THE POLICY
elected ;
On the terms and conditions SET by their EMPLOYER, the PUBLIC .

IE : NOT TO EXPECT ‘the vice versa .

131488 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Jimmy, 8, #23 of 1090 🔗

Let’s cut to the chase rather than engage in all this fannying about.

Hancock needs to be put on trial, found guilty, and disposed of. Like a good many others.

Building the “coronahoax” charge sheet: reckoning culpability for the deliberate inflation of Covid-19 death

131639 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PWL, 2, #24 of 1090 🔗

Don’t forget Johnson he has to go.

131674 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jimmy, 2, #25 of 1090 🔗

Especially Hancock would crumble like baking parchment near a lit match.
Lets take bets when he will start to cry, cower in a corner and cry “mummy, I never wanted to become a politician…”

131170 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 61, #26 of 1090 🔗

I note the story yesterday of the police cautioning mothers for organising a tea party of more than six children

A caution is a criminal conviction. You cannot have a caution recorded against you unless you consent. In effect you are pleading guilty to the allegation. As on this occasion this is said to involve the alleged safety of children this is a serious matter

If you accept a caution in these circumstances it is likely that you never ever be able to get a job working with children, or as a carer, etc

Many police officers (not all) con people into accepting a caution by using such terms as ‘it’s not a conviction” It will be dealt with quicker this way” “you won’t have to go to court” “just sign here and it’s dealt with” etc

It’s a simpler administrative procedure for the police

Is cautioning their new policy?

If you refuse a caution the police can issue you with a Fixed Penalty Notice of 30 quid

If you pay it. it is not a conviction, you will be able to work with children etc

There are currently 10,000 plus contested FPN’s waiting to go to court. Not one has proceeded to court. The government for some reason seem a bit shy in taking these contested cases to court

It would take a court up to 43 years to hear them all

Go figure

131173 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, 15, #27 of 1090 🔗

Would getting one to court be a possible way to break the spell? If the gov don’t want it tested perhaps that’s a reason to test it.

131193 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 10, #28 of 1090 🔗

I’ve been trying for 6 months. Only result so far, an FPN for my wife. 🙁

131293 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 3, #29 of 1090 🔗

I’ve had a brief reflection on this. Genuinely good luck to you. Takes a bit of courage to take that on.

131313 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 11, #30 of 1090 🔗

My evil self fancies the chance to educate some magistrates. And possibly even get into the local rag. 🙂

Plus I want to be able to wave my conviction at my grandkids in 20 years time, when they ask me what I did. 🙂

131198 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Basics, 17, #31 of 1090 🔗

Good point. However, once the the fine is contested the onus is on the Crown Prosecution Service to instigate proceedings.

It is open to them to just sit on their hands ( I suspect they have had that instruction from above)

At six months from the date of the offence ‘Limitations On Proceedings’ kicks in and the matter is void

It’s likely that LOP applies to some of the notices issued at the start of this nonsense

Note: I am not qualified to give legal advice, but lets just say I’ve been round the block a few times

131190 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 3, #32 of 1090 🔗

Possibly not a technical use of the word ‘caution’, Cecil. They might just have ticked them off.

131195 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to JohnB, 9, #33 of 1090 🔗

That would be a ‘verbal warning’ not a caution

Trust me I know what I’m talking about

If they gave a VW, but told the press it was a caution, it’s a lie and just more propaganda

131199 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 3, #34 of 1090 🔗

They probably gave a verbal warning, or some ‘education’, and the press fulfilled their current function.

You’re not surprised they’re spreading untrue propaganda, Cecil ?

131208 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to JohnB, 7, #35 of 1090 🔗

No I’m not, but it’s an important point. Were they given a VW or were they cautioned?

It’s the difference between having a conviction and not having a conviction

If they were not cautioned, who decided to say that they were?

131267 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cecil B, 2, #36 of 1090 🔗

Iirc it’s straightforward defamation to say someone has a conviction when they don’t.

131351 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 2, #37 of 1090 🔗

The Police would not use the word Caution unless they meant just that.

132280 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 1, #38 of 1090 🔗

You’re ruling out the totally absurd notion that our wonderful media might be bending the truth just a weeny bit? 🙂

131229 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Cecil B, #39 of 1090 🔗

You say, “ A caution is a criminal conviction”. Not so:

From: https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty#:~:text=A caution is not a,Barring Service (DBS) checks.

Cautions Cautions are given to anyone aged 10 or over for minor crimes – for example writing graffiti on a bus shelter.
You have to admit an offence and agree to be cautioned. You can be arrested and charged if you don’t agree.
A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.”

Please try and stick to the facts.

131781 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 4, #41 of 1090 🔗

From Gov website
Introduction

Your criminal record includes all:

  • cautions given by the police
  • convictions given at court

You might be asked about your criminal record when you apply for:

  • a job
  • education or training
  • insurance

Will 77 regt trolls please butt out

131236 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cecil B, 11, #42 of 1090 🔗

I’m keeping an eye on the park that we overlook. For the past few weeks on a Tuesday (market day here), there have been groups of elderly people congregating (obviously up to no good) so will check to see if the rozzers break up any gangs of over 6!

131263 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to kh1485, 4, #43 of 1090 🔗

the Batley Townswomen guild are still safe then ,, only 6 of them

131273 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to mjr, #44 of 1090 🔗

ha ha, that’s it exactly …

131274 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 9, #45 of 1090 🔗

Got to keep a close eye on those pensioner gangs. It starts with unruly zimmer frame use, but unchecked it ends up with gang fights over the bingo results….

131277 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 3, #46 of 1090 🔗

Oh yes. And the ringleader, Gladys, is particularly fearsome. Got the rozzers on speed-dial!

131310 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Mark, 8, #47 of 1090 🔗

A: how do you get a granny to say Fuck?
A: get another one to shout BINGO!
I’ll get me coat…

131238 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 7, #48 of 1090 🔗

I would lose my security clearance and not be allowed to work in schools either as it would be on my DBS check certificate if I was cautioned for something as stupid as this.

Have to be careful with all these loose cannon Police Officers at the moment, they don’t know the law and you can quickly end up with a caution that could ruin your career. Even if it is a mistake and rescinded I do not believe they are removed from your criminal record, we had a guy who worked with us who got cautioned because he intervened to break up a fight, he appealed and it was rescinded but when he was DBS checked he lost his job as it was still on his criminal record. The employer fired him because he hadn’t disclosed it when they employed him and it meant that he couldn’t work for the customers that require DBS checked staff.

131242 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Cecil B, 3, #49 of 1090 🔗

For the police to issue a caution then the offence has to be admitted to. It may only be offered by a police officer of sergeant or above or the CPS. If you need an enhanced DBS check then you must declare it as the rehabilitation of offenders act does not apply (the non-enhanced DBS doesn’t include it).
It is up to your employer to decide whether it bars you from working with children, vulnerable people etc.
I would have thought it unlikely to affect security clearance.
https://policecautions.uk/police-caution-procedure/

131278 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to p02099003, 7, #50 of 1090 🔗

Always remember the process is the punishment.

Anyone with the temerity to stand up for themselves or disagree with one of the states enforcers will have their life ruined, even if eventually not guilty, you will be made to jump through hoops and permanently banned from certain occupations.

131283 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Cecil B, 2, #51 of 1090 🔗

Looking at these blasted Regs the enforcement of the requirement is exercised by a relevant person (police, police community support -NB it doesn’t look like the Covid wombles can be designated a relevant person in relation to gatherings). first port of call for relevant person is to direct the gathering to disperse. Only if you point blank refuse without a reasonable excuse do you commit an offence and then only if you are over 18. You should then be given an option of a FPN (which unless you are an organiser or facilitator of a large gathering 30+ and none of the quite long list of exceptions apply when it is £10k) if £100 reduced to £50 if paid early. If you are already owner of FPN, the amount doubles for each successive FPN. You have 28 days to pay.

according to CRB direct website, it is very unlikely that FPNs would appear on standard DBS and only on enhanced if you have a slew of them.

in relation to cautions, the police are required to explain the implications. They’ve also got to give you time to think about and get advice. You have to give written consent. Cautions are spent immediately but not if applying for job where standard or enhanced DBS is required.

131347 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 4, #52 of 1090 🔗

A caution also counts as a Sanctioned Detection for the Officer.
ie detected a crime, solved it, got a result.
Counts toward achieving his target same as if it was a burglary.

131361 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 6, #53 of 1090 🔗

Anybody remember the Police blogger Inspector Gadget who told of things within the Met Police before being capriciously ousted by Times reporter?

He wrote a guide to dealing with the Police
for Gentle Folk (that’s you and me).
I will be posting it right here in full at about 16.00 today.

132297 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to karenovirus, #54 of 1090 🔗

I remember. It was Lancashire Police though wasn’t it?

131627 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 3, #55 of 1090 🔗

Good points, no one should accept a caution or a fixed penalty. Demand your day in court.

131174 Gman, replying to Gman, 74, #56 of 1090 🔗

Mixed emotions on the school run this morning. My 9 year old says daddy what is the point of play time?

Me: What do you mean?

Son: Well we cant play with balls incase we touch them, we cant play it because we cant touch each other, we cant play hide and seek as the teachers need to see us at all times and the daily mile running we used to do has been stopped as we cant socially distance as we run.

Me: That is ridiculous, I will email the head to let him know my thoughts.

Son: Nah dont bother, we just ignore the rules and play it & hide and seek anyway.

It makes me happy that a bunch of 8/9 year olds arent too scared of the virus to break the rules – but on the other hand according to Handycock & the BBC i will be dead in a couple of weeks so better get my affairs in order…..

131194 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gman, 33, #57 of 1090 🔗

Well done your lad and his mates. Put most adults to shame.

131227 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Gman, 11, #58 of 1090 🔗

Great to hear about sceptical children. When I was in primary school they tried to ban conkers but we still did it anyway.

131625 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DRW, 5, #59 of 1090 🔗

And then there was all that banned smoking going on behind the bike shed.

131251 ▶▶ Fed Up Fogey, replying to Gman, 17, #60 of 1090 🔗

All kids should ignore these stupid and inhumane rules: as minors, there’s nothing much the law can really do to them, and the worst that can happen is that they get kicked out of the school. …A school where they’re essentially psychologically abused and brainwashed.

131439 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gman, 6, #61 of 1090 🔗

Well done to your son and his friends. More power to their elbow!

131843 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Gman, 6, #62 of 1090 🔗

Brilliant post…..It’s stories like this that temper my resolve to NEVER acquiesce to any of this Psychological warfare. THIS is what gives me hope and determination 🙂

132155 ▶▶ Paul Steward, replying to Gman, 3, #63 of 1090 🔗

Sorry to hear this, I’m a primary teacher and can assure you this is not the experience everywhere, my school is nothing like this! Ridiculous and nasty way to treat children.

131175 theanalyst, 5, #64 of 1090 🔗

Just to highlight how utterly ridiculous Pillar 2 Test Results are becoming….PHE’s own Weekly Surveillance Report now showing Pillar 2 commercial lab confirmed Test Results running at 8-9% positivity in >85 Year olds. Total joke. See graphs at the bottom of page 7.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916993/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_37_FINAL.pdf

131177 Basics, 12, #65 of 1090 🔗

Ivor Cummins excellent 8 Sept video
Nearing 700k views
Brilliant clear analysis of what is happening using official government data.

https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac

Last repost from me.

131180 Ed Phillips, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #66 of 1090 🔗

Where can I get the latest deaths and hospitalisation data for local areas, please?

131211 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #67 of 1090 🔗

Here ‘s the hospitalization data for my “region”. For other regions and data (e.g. deaths) use the menus on the left hand side. I don’t know where you find data that’s a bit more local than that, and would also be interested in finding out.

131589 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to mattghg, 1, #68 of 1090 🔗

Thank you. I’m in the North East – the death stats are for my region and they show a handful of deaths over the last month. The hospitalisations stats are thrown in with Yorkshire.
Multicultural, densely populated towns and cities in Yorkshire are going to have a serious skewing effect on those stats for County Durham and Northumberland making them meaningless.

131181 PastImperfect, 20, #69 of 1090 🔗

Sandra Durham – Facebook

Wash your hands regularly – the government has taken care of your brain.

131183 Basics, replying to Basics, 14, #70 of 1090 🔗

#JohnsonMustGo

Is trending on twitter. Actually don’t know precisely what that means but it seems good.

131189 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 41, #71 of 1090 🔗

Masterful tweetage by Simon Dolan:

The last person in the UK to cancel Xmas was Oliver Cromwell.

After he died (from natural causes), he was dug up, hanged, decapitated, and had his head placed on a spike in London on display for the next 20 years.

Over to you @MattHancock

131196 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 35, #72 of 1090 🔗

Hancock won’t die from natural causes. He’ll accidentally step into sunshine, or be sprinkled with holy water, and crumble into dust on the spot.

131230 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to JohnB, 4, #73 of 1090 🔗

Anyone living in London should carry a clove of garlic, just in case they happen to meet him.

131444 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Simon Dutton, 4, #74 of 1090 🔗

And don’t forget the crucifix as well.

131375 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to JohnB, 7, #75 of 1090 🔗

Make sure that when you meet up for your fully legal shooting party that you have silver bullets available in case you spot a Hancock hiding in the hedgerow

132278 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Strange Days, #76 of 1090 🔗

I was going to suggest silver bullets as an afterthought – that way we’d achieve something even if he is (surprisingly) not one of the undead. 🙂

131266 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 16, #77 of 1090 🔗

Christmas is the last national unifying festival we have left.Touch it at your peril.Banning grandma from Christmas dinner is not a good career move

131280 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Basics, 17, #78 of 1090 🔗

Back in the 50’s and no doubt before that if a child in the neighbourhood started to show symptoms of measles ( a killer disease which could cause blindness and deafness), the mothers would get together and organize what was called a “Measles party” and all the local kids got together at said party to get it over with as quickly as possible:ie: herd immunity.
Obviously a drastic measure but it worked as proved by the extremely large numbers of old f**ts like me making nuisances of themselves and constantly moaning about everything.
But seriously why are a lot of people agreeing with this utter madness destroying all our lives over a mild (especially among the young) illness.

131423 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 3, #79 of 1090 🔗

Why wait till our buggers are dead?

131258 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 12, #80 of 1090 🔗

To do with the Brexit issue.The vague concept of international law is more important to these people than their liberties

131275 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #81 of 1090 🔗

Yes. Notable that the Remain Conservative Party is prepared to kick off over the denunciation of an unacceptable ‘deal’ that was made in the first place only because the Remain Conservative Party insisted upon it, but they are not prepared to do more than chunter over the destruction of basic human rights and liberties. The party is a waste of political oxygen. And yet Tobes seems quite taken with them this morning. Has he been got at?

131264 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 4, #82 of 1090 🔗

All the people supporting this #JohnsonMustGo you can damn well bet, if you check, are the hardcore COVID-19 zealots who are following everything Johnson says to the letter.

131956 ▶▶ rational actor, replying to Basics, #83 of 1090 🔗

Bojo Delenda Est

Is that right? We don’t have none of them fancypants classicist schools round these parts.

131192 James Leary #KBF, 2, #84 of 1090 🔗

Karen has a new friend.

131207 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 49, #85 of 1090 🔗

Appropriate summary?

131260 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nessimmersion, 9, #86 of 1090 🔗

Stay Afraid, Control the People, Save Dictators.

133179 ▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to Nessimmersion, #87 of 1090 🔗

Woo, first sighting of my meme being used by someone else – makes me so happy! 😀

131209 swedenborg, 10, #88 of 1090 🔗

https://rationalground.com/why-mass-pcr-testing-of-the-healthy-and-asymptomatic-is-currently-counter-productive/

A very good article from US about testing. They recommend 34 as a cut off and that lab should report the Ct needed for reporting as positive. India has obviously adapted to this and require Ct on all PCR tests reported as positive.

131216 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 20, #89 of 1090 🔗

Health Freedom – Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Children’s Health Defense

We say “No!” Mandating an invasive medical procedure violates our most fundamental rights. All medical procedures, including vaccines, carry risks; they must be voluntary.

And vaccine injuries aren’t rare – they’re approximately 1 in every 40 doses, according to a U.S. Agency for Health Research Quality 2010 study.

We stand for your rights — and ours – including your right to consent. But know this:

  • No federally-recommended vaccine has ever been tested against a real placebo. Vaccines are tested against other vaccines or vaccine ingredients, masking harm. And the government has never tested the entire childhood schedule in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children.
  • Vaccines are typically tested for days or weeks, not years, like drugs.
  • Government agencies charged with vaccine safety are, in essence, vaccine companies, owning patents and earning royalties. They are sock puppets of industry.
  • Mainstream media heavily censors information critical of vaccines. The vaccine companies spend billions every year in advertising revenue to the big media companies in our country, and they’re not only buying ad space, they are dictating content.
  • It’s important to know you can’t sue a vaccine manufacturer for a vaccine injury or death. Instead, you have to go through a government claims program where most people lose. Vaccine makers get all the profits, but the injured get all the losses — physical, mental, emotional and financial.
  • COVID-19 vaccines have received billions in government subsidy and private money. These vaccines have become “too big to fail,” even though the clinical trials have been disasters.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/community-and-world-united-we-say-no/

131329 ▶▶ nat, replying to Victoria, 6, #90 of 1090 🔗

The Children’s Health Defense is doing amazing work ! I just posted about their court case against Facebook censorship.

131352 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Victoria, 2, #91 of 1090 🔗

vaccine injuries aren’t rare – they’re approximately 1 in every 40 doses, according to a U.S. Agency for Health Research Quality 2010 study.

No, that is not what that report says. That figure is for “possible reactions”, for which the report says

35,570 possible reactions (2.6 percent of vaccinations) were identified.

In fact, the report does not mention the word “injury” at all. In this context, a “possible reaction” is not the same thing as a “reaction”, and a “reaction” is not the same thing as an “adverse event”, which is defined as “ any health problem that happens after a shot or other vaccine” whether or not caused by the vaccination. An “adverse event” is not the same as “vaccine injury” which is a legal term covering health problems caused by vaccination so serious as to merit compensation.

Quoting a “possible reaction” figure as a “vaccine injury” figure is simply dishonest.

131552 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #92 of 1090 🔗

A study from 2010 is out of date. Vaccine injuries have risen exponentially as pharmaceutical companies have lobbied successfully to increase the number of vaccines given simultaneously for children , which cause dangerous interactions with each other.

131641 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to nat, 1, #93 of 1090 🔗

That’s hardly the point. This 2010 report is the report apparently cited by Kennedy and it was cited dishonestly.

131654 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Richard Pinch, #94 of 1090 🔗

If “cases” are possible infections ……

131217 Cecil B, 4, #95 of 1090 🔗

The dictatorship plants stories about the decriminlisation of the non payment of the TV licence fee, and the taxing of satellite TV

Then people wonder why these organisations pump out only pro regime propaganda

Keep up folks

131219 jojo, replying to jojo, 39, #96 of 1090 🔗

Retail news site reporting that masks are not good for business. Who knew!!

“Retail footfall to be negatively impacted, while face masks remain mandatory in stores”

– As face coverings are expected to remain compulsory until Covid-19 has been significantly suppressed, consumers’ reluctance to visit stores will inevitably lead to weakened footfall for the foreseeable future, contributing towards the UK physical retail market’s forecast decline of 8.6% in 2020.

https://www.retail-insight-network.com/comment/retail-footfall-face-masks-mandatory-stores/

131259 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to jojo, 11, #97 of 1090 🔗

Totally predictable

131311 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to jojo, 21, #98 of 1090 🔗

Not been in a shop since February. Clothing cost last year £775 this £0. Dining out £1100 (2019) £80 (2020).

131391 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to FenTyger, 11, #99 of 1090 🔗

This nonsense will only stop when the board of directors sees the bottom line of their interim results. Unfortunately, if they are bed-wetters, they will also need someone to inform them that things would be different if they were more sensible, and that may never happen.

In which case, they will get what’s coming to them (apologies to their honourable and hard-working staff who will be severely-impacted by redundancy).

131461 ▶▶▶▶ jojo, replying to RichardJames, 3, #100 of 1090 🔗

YouGov surveys doesn’t even seem to be asking the right questions. They say, ability to socially distance is most important when buying cloths. While it would be true for some of the shoppers, YouGov doesn’t seem to have asked anything about masks/restrictions in shops.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/consumer/articles-reports/2020/09/14/how-has-covid-19-impacted-shopping-habits

131575 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to FenTyger, 7, #101 of 1090 🔗

Not been in a supermarket or other shop since the mask mandate. My overall spending has fallen 20% since. Good for me, bad for the economy.

But why would I subject myself to any extra dystopian experiences? The bus is bad enough, but I consider my allotment an essential activity, and one that’s more pleasant than shopping.

131419 ▶▶ annie, replying to jojo, 2, #102 of 1090 🔗

What do they suggest should be done?
Just lie down and die?

131470 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jojo, 11, #103 of 1090 🔗

How none of the businesses saw this coming is staggering.

As I’ve said many times, I’ve despaired at the cowardice of the High Street in kowtowing to the government’s so-called “Covid safety” diktat with some even going one step further which made shopping such a joyless and dystopian experience. Who would want to go into shops where you’re treated like a leper?

If the businesses don’t get their act together I won’t be surprised when they finally go bust.

132013 ▶▶ stewart, replying to jojo, #104 of 1090 🔗

Duh…

131220 RichardJames, replying to RichardJames, 80, #105 of 1090 🔗

Your article about cafes is spot-on. Two weeks ago, I went into the local Starbucks and a more soulless place could not be imagined. I changed my order to a takeaway.

Yesterday, I went into a cafe and the manageress (wearing a mask, of course) held up her hand to block me, shouting “Stay outside, there’s already one person in here!” I walked outside and was puzzled to see an empty table. Looking back into the cafe, I shouted to the owner “It’s alright, you’ve made your decision and I respect it; I’ll go away”. Her demeanour immediately changed to a panicky “There’s a table outside!” but I am not accustomed, at my advanced age, to having a member of staff holding up her hand to block me when I wish to become a customer. I replied again “It’s alright, you’ve made your decision! I completely respect your decision; goodbye!”

As I said yesterday, I wonder who will benefit most long-term; her with that attitude, or me with my money still in my pocket?

131225 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to RichardJames, 26, #106 of 1090 🔗

Well done for voting with your feet.

131232 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to RichardJames, 32, #107 of 1090 🔗

Interesting how the word “please” seems to have disappeared in public life.

It’s almost as if they’re softening us up for something.

131417 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Simon Dutton, 10, #108 of 1090 🔗

We are slaves. You don’t say ‘please’ to a slave unless you are a decent person, which is rare these days.

131459 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Simon Dutton, 8, #109 of 1090 🔗

Unfortunately good customer service has gone out of the window since this madness started.

131603 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Simon Dutton, 5, #110 of 1090 🔗

There’s no “almost” about it, but I pretty sure you know that already.

131254 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to RichardJames, 39, #111 of 1090 🔗

This is what annoys me, me and OH have elected not to go out which saddens me as in normal times whilst not living an extravagant life we would go to the pub after work for a drink, or a pint or 2 on a Saturday afternoon or save up and have a nice meal.

We might be cutting off our nose to spite our face but as far as I can see there is no fun to be had and no spontaneity. Maybe it’s a regional thing but north of the border things are pretty dier.

My colleague had a weekend away recently in Stirling and she said the same, her and her hubby had to queue to go to a wetherspoon and then couldn’t find a table as there were 2 of them so why bother.

In Scotland face coverings are compulsory in pubs and restaurants when people are not either eating or drinking. Ludicrous.

We keep asking why, surely these companies can see they are losing trade and quite frankly treating people like shit is not a good business model.

131262 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to stefarm, 22, #112 of 1090 🔗

I feel similar. I used to enjoy going out for the occasional pub lunch with the family, but we’re absolutely refusing to do it so long as the insistence on taking details is in place. The thought of having to self-isolate – with three children under six at home! – because someone else who was there “tested positive” is madness.

131335 ▶▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to mattghg, 27, #113 of 1090 🔗

Always pay cash, don’t social distance, never wear a mask, give fake names.

131387 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to OpenYourEyes, 16, #114 of 1090 🔗

Always; I transpose two digits of my phone number, and only give my first name. I never bother with unsocial distancing unless I move back out of politeness to bed-wetters. I try to pay cash most of the time.

All of these tolerations depend entirely on the person to whom I am talking; if I like a staff member who is only doing what they’ve been forced to do, then maybe OK. Security staff or management, no latitude.

131523 ▶▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to OpenYourEyes, 3, #115 of 1090 🔗

Sam Smiths’ emporiums only take cash.

131615 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to stefarm, 11, #116 of 1090 🔗

There’s plenty of stupidity south of the border, many pubs and cafes near home are now becoming places to avoid. Also in Wales last week on holiday, the landlord of the pub we normally use was watching over customers as they signed in and insisting on hand sanitising being used under his watchful eye. Myself and wife declined his hearty welcome and went on our way.

131429 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to RichardJames, 3, #117 of 1090 🔗

Brilliant! 🙂

131458 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RichardJames, 11, #118 of 1090 🔗

Let’s hope she’s kicking herself for that lost sale.

Well done! Voting with our feet and wallet is the only way these people will wake up.

131579 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to RichardJames, 12, #119 of 1090 🔗

I’ve gone in a Starbucks once since the madness began and that’s because I’ve got a bit of money left on their app. Happily, they didn’t challenge me or my exemption card. Couldn’t understand the poor woman at the register since her mask muffled her voice. Bought a cookie and sat there with the one other indoor patron. They’re not getting new revenue from me, just giving me what I’ve already paid for.

131612 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ConstantBees, 12, #120 of 1090 🔗

Not been to Starbucks or Costa since this madness began. I’d happily support independents but if its a chain I would rather go to Caffe Nero or Paul’s – the branches I’ve been to have staff who have treated me like a human being rather than Typhoid Mary

132167 ▶▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #121 of 1090 🔗

Coffee #1 has been very relaxed and almost normal. Went to the same one twice the other day, didn’t want to do the Track and Trace smartphone thing, but you can write details on the back of a receipt instead and put it in a box. The second time, I said I’d already done it that day and they were happy with that – might be a strategy to use!

132187 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJS123, 1, #122 of 1090 🔗

That’s a good idea. Or pretend to write something and put it in the box.

132020 ▶▶ stewart, replying to RichardJames, 5, #123 of 1090 🔗

I think this is great. It gives non-chain cafes a chance to claw back customers.
Big corporations are first and foremost covering their asses legally.
Mom and pop places only have themselves to answer to and can take “risks” – i.e. just act normally. Those who do will benefit.

132152 ▶▶ Paul Steward, replying to RichardJames, 2, #124 of 1090 🔗

Those of you feeling unwilling to go out, give it a try. We had a lovely meal at The Old House at Home pub in Burton, off of J18 of the M4 on the way from Hertfordshire to Cornwall today. Apart from taking our details for track and trace it was as normal, no masks on customers or staff, no nasty signs, excellent service and delicious food.

131221 Bob, replying to Bob, 9, #125 of 1090 🔗

In today’s spectator…..

“Interestingly the Public Health England explanation of the methods for counting cases is as follows:

‘If a person has both a negative and a positive test, then only their positive test will be counted.

An asymptomatic person who tested positive could have two confirmatory negative tests, but would still count as a confirmed case. But in Wales, data is deduplicated on 42-day episodes; if someone is tested twice, 43 days apart, they will be included in the case count measure twice.” 😂

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-does-a-case-of-covid-19-really-mean-

131233 ▶▶ Bob, replying to Bob, 6, #126 of 1090 🔗

Most normal people would just think the tests are garbage but not the government.

131373 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bob, 3, #127 of 1090 🔗

Most ‘normal’ people seem to believe the government for some reason or other. MW

131414 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #128 of 1090 🔗

What criterion for ‘normal, can we adopt in these insane times?

131787 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, #129 of 1090 🔗

Not sure, Annie, I suspect that we’ll have to settle for being considered ‘abnormal’ – it certainly feels like that sometimes. Once again, I’m very relieved to get on here and, at least mostly, feel that I haven’t completely lost my remaining marbles 🙂 MW

131244 ▶▶ Will, replying to Bob, 14, #130 of 1090 🔗

Covid is the gift that keeps on giving. Not remotely surprised they are counting False Positives confirmed as negative, as positive.

Every day Johnson is presented with clearer opportunities to call a halt to this insanity; the question that has to be asked is whether his failure to take said opportunities is evidence of incompetence, cowardice, malice or a deeply malign combination of the three.

131312 ▶▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to Will, 3, #131 of 1090 🔗

Or something more sinister…

131291 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Bob, 2, #132 of 1090 🔗

I commented there in detail, it’s an interesting exercise in Bayesian probability. The important points are that the false negative rate is much higher than the false positive rate, and that in the population at large the true positive rate is very low

Executive summary. Designating the result of a positive test followed by a negative test as positive is mainly right when there is reason to believe that population being tested has a large proportion of positives (for example people who have been exposed). As a test for the the population as a whole — for example in the “moonshot” mass testing programme — this is simply wrong. When the true positives form such a small proportion of the population under test, almost all such test results are false positive and should be designated as negative.

131457 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Richard Pinch, #133 of 1090 🔗

Thank you for your clear and objective analysis. Would you dare to put an estimation as to the FPR at the moment in the UK? Obviously it isn’t running at the 90% it would be if everyone was being tested but would you suspect it would be greater or less than 40%?

131697 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Will, #134 of 1090 🔗

If you mean the false positive and false negative rates on a test, I’m taking it as 2% and roughly 30% respectively, based on a GOS report. The evidential value of a positive result for an individual depends on the percentage of true positives in the population.

For the population as a whole, ONS data suggests about 0.2%. Hence the evidential value of a positive test is based on 0.02 times 0.998 = 2% for false positive results from true negative samples, and 0.70 times 0.002 = 0.14% for true positive results from true positive samples. So the total positive rate is 2.14% of which true positives contribute 0.14% or a proportion of 14/214 = 6.5%. Hence on this basis some 93% of positive test results are incorrect.

On the other hand, suppose that you’re testing people who have some reason to believe they are positive: say those who are exposed or showing uncertain symptoms. Suppose that 25% of the people are true positive. Then the same calculation gives the evidential value of a positive test based on 0.02 times 0.75 = 1.5% for false positive results from true negative samples, and 0.70 times 0.25 = 17.5% for true positive results from true positive samples. So the total positive rate is 19% of which true positives contribute 18% or a proportion of 18/19 = 95%. Hence on this basis some 5% of positive test results are incorrect.

One of the points here is that the evidential value of a positive result (probability that the positive test result is indeed from a positive sample) depends hugely on the assumed proportion of positive cases in the population you’re testing.

131222 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 17, #135 of 1090 🔗

YouTube Censors Think Tank For Disagreeing With WHO

This is a clear case of a social media company dangerously giving out medical advice. They are telling you which medical organizations are right and which are wrong. They are again pretending to be the experts on experts.

131257 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #136 of 1090 🔗

Social media is basically the user generated MSM arm these days.

132029 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #137 of 1090 🔗

Yeah, well, people were all for social media censorship when it was about “Russian meddling”.

The problem is that on the whole people are stupid and can’t think through the consequences of things they demand.

131234 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 26, #138 of 1090 🔗

In respect of the WHO mask wearing nonsense

BBC Medical Correspondent Deborah Cohen’s tweet of the 12th July 2020 should tell you all you need to know.

“We had been told by various sources WHO committee reviewing the evidence had not backed masks but they recommended them due to political lobbying. This point was put to WHO who did not deny”

131239 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Schrodinger, #139 of 1090 🔗

But no confirmed sources, so means jack!

131317 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, 11, #140 of 1090 🔗

She said she was protecting her sources because of confidentiality. Not an implausible thing, given the likelihood of severe career damage for anyone who goes off narrative in such an organisation.

131358 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, -2, #141 of 1090 🔗

Still means jack though if no one comes forwards, and it’s the BBC which no one trusts anything about what they say, so why trust them on this just because it fits what we want to hear?

131385 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, #142 of 1090 🔗

I agree it’s a shame there’s not more evidence. Cohen is pretty sceptical I think, did some good work exposing the local lockdown shambles (extra testing, no-one ill etc.).

132032 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to JohnB, #143 of 1090 🔗

it’s the BBC which no one trusts anything about what they say

If only.

131438 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to JohnB, 5, #144 of 1090 🔗

Well the WHO previously did not recommend masks at all, I believe there are still videos on line of them saying, basically, they are not recommended for healthy people, they are not effective against a virus, may risk you spreading bacteria, etc.
https://www.businessinsider.com/who-no-need-for-healthy-people-to-wear-face-masks-2020-4?r=US&IR=T
The source of their U-turn is obviously still a mystery.

Got a friend in California who has been told explicitly that wearing face masks will likely make matters worse with smoke & nasties in the air & offer absolutely zero protection…so how they’re supposed to help with covid-19 is a little bit of a mystery still to many of us.

132241 ▶▶▶▶ rational actor, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #145 of 1090 🔗

I am not in California, but the propaganda I’ve heard is that the particles resulting from the wildfires are reeeeeeeeeally small, smaller than a virus, so those useful cloth masks do not help. I’m surprised the fabled precautionary principle hasn’t kicked in, but it may be that someone is genuinely worried about getting sued for bad advice in this case.

131979 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to JohnB, 1, #146 of 1090 🔗

Our own government said they were useless many times until some bellend in No10 decided the reason the high street was dead and that muzzles would save the day.

Only knob heads believe they do anything.

Maybe you should open your own virus lab and instead of hermetically sealed positive air pressure suits you can wear an bandana.

We do need a thinning out of the clinically stupid.

131269 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #147 of 1090 🔗

Is the tweet still up? Can you provide a link?

131289 ▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to mattghg, 1, #148 of 1090 🔗

Not sure but I have a screenshot on my FB page

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10158261285259961

131339 ▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #149 of 1090 🔗

Thanks! That was enough to go. The tweet is still up:

https://twitter.com/deb_cohen/status/1282244773030633473

131360 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mattghg, 1, #150 of 1090 🔗

She also says it at the end of this Newsnight article.

https://youtu.be/Bw51IudGNb8

131237 Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, 25, #151 of 1090 🔗

I signed this petition recently to “Prevent any restrictions on those who refuse a Covid-19 vaccination” at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442 . It now has over 124,000 signatures. Today I received the government response to the petition. It states: “There are currently no plans to place restrictions on those who refuse to have any potential Covid-19 vaccine”.
I feel compelled to respond to this with this response: “I do not feel reassured by this response given that at the moment many many adults, babies and children are being refused treatment from the NHS if they refuse to take a COVID test. So you may say that a COVID test is not mandatory currently but without it treatment is being refused. So can you reassure me that this will never be the case for a COVID vaccine please?”.
You can still sign this petition if you feel you agree with it’s sentiment. If you have signed it already and wish to respond yourselves to the government response you can do so at https://petition.parliament.uk/feedback or you can email your comments to petitionscommittee@parliament.uk

131240 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Laura Gallagher, 6, #152 of 1090 🔗

Laura, you are not alone. Several posts on the previous day’s page about this, expressing concern. Thanks for the heads-up regarding feedback.

131241 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Laura Gallagher, 4, #153 of 1090 🔗

Great post. Agree

131330 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Laura Gallagher, 1, #154 of 1090 🔗

I also thought the response was disingenuous to say the least. Like others, I have submitted to the consultation, keeping a copy, so they cannot deny their actions at a later stage when it all goes belly up.

131400 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Laura Gallagher, 2, #155 of 1090 🔗

Yes, I signed and saw the response too. They covered their ass half-way down though:

There are currently no plans to introduce a Covid-19 vaccine in a way that penalises those who do not take up the vaccine. However, the Government will carefully consider all options to improve vaccination rates, should that be necessary .

All options are still on the table, including coercion.

They also mention this:

All vaccines used in the UK are thoroughly tested, meet strict safety criteria and are carefully monitored after they are introduced into the national programme

However, they don’t mentions that they currently have a consultation going on to use unlicensed vaccines, should Handcock decide this is a good idea:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distributing-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19-and-flu

131447 ▶▶ D B, replying to Laura Gallagher, 7, #156 of 1090 🔗

I found the quote in full quite eye opening on a number of points.

“After clean water, vaccination is the most effective and crucial public health intervention, and a cornerstone of public health that we must not take for granted. It is vital that a significant proportion of people who are offered take up a Covid-19 vaccine in order to protect themselves as well as other vulnerable individuals. Averting a second wave is a key priority for the government and high take up of a vaccine when available will greatly contribute to that.”

Not sure that clean water and vaccines are even in the same league of health care interventions, given only one disease has been eradicated in the course of vaccines history.

“Immunisations save thousands of lives every year by preventing outbreaks of serious infectious diseases and, in cases such as smallpox and polio, eliminating diseases in the UK altogether. Since the introduction of the measles vaccine in 1968, it is estimated that 20 million cases and 4,500 deaths have been averted in the UK. From 1970 to 2017, it is estimated that rubella vaccination has averted 1,300 babies being born with congenital rubella syndrome and 25,000 terminations. With further innovation and the development of new vaccines, even more lives could be saved.”

Interesting that they compare now a coronavirus against other dissimilar viruses, would be better to compare accurately against the flu jab programme that has been running for years? Also, those numbers are hardly jaw-dropping successes in my opinion, trivial numbers over the time frame, and possible improvements to modern medicines and treatments would have achieved similar results (impossible to know)

“We believe it is everyone’s responsibility to do the right thing for their own health, and for the benefit of the wider community. There are currently no plans to introduce a Covid-19 vaccine in a way that penalises those who do not take up the vaccine. However, the Government will carefully consider all options to improve vaccination rates, should that be necessary.”

“We believe it is everyone’s responsibility to do the right thing for their own health” blatantly not true as I have to kowtow to the Government’s latest mandates or risk fines I can ill-afford or face being ostracised from my peers and the community.

The UK has a world class national immunisation programme which is constantly reviewed and updated to reflect the changing nature of infectious diseases and provide the best protection for the public. All vaccines used in the UK are thoroughly tested, meet strict safety criteria and are carefully monitored after they are introduced into the national programme. Our evidence-based immunisation programmes are informed by the advice of our work leading expert committee – the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI), which reviews a wide range of scientific and other evidence, keeping the vaccine schedule safe and relevant.

Immunisation offers everyone a chance at a healthy life from the earliest beginnings and into old age. It saves millions of lives every year and is widely recognised as one of the world’s most successful and cost-effective health interventions. High uptake of a Covid-19 vaccine is the best way we have, to protect our health, our jobs, and our economy at large.

Department of Health and Social Care

All things considered I can’t see them not following through on their response to the petition, safe to say I won’t be getting vaccinated a) I’ve already had it, b) herd immunity is sufficient c) I am not at risk d) it’s been rushed through e) may well come from nations we could easily consider enemies of the state in China or Russia

131243 NonCompliant, 4, #157 of 1090 🔗

Thought those of us who propagate graphs and articles amongst their social circles might appreciate links the the graphs Toby stuck in todays update. For me these should prove beyond any doubt that increased testing means increased new cases !

You will need to copy and paste each link as the comments section hasn’t rendered them correctly in the page for some reason.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&positiveTestRate=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&testsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

131245 William Hand, 7, #158 of 1090 🔗

Oh shit, the Thought Police are at the door, they have come to install a “telescreen”, you know, the one that you cannot turn off. Doubleplusungood.

131246 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 12, #159 of 1090 🔗

Councils in the North East have written to the government begging for further local lockdown restrictions because of the rise in ‘cases’. Most of these councils are Labour except for Northumberland which deposed its leader last week after he suspended the CEO. He did this because, after he refused to support BLM in Council communications, she accused him, in writing, of an affair with another councillor. There is also a police investigation going on into an arms length company set up by the council and the local health authority which, bizarrely, has the same CEO. It would appear that there is a plot by the Labour Group and some of the senior officers of the council to undermine the Tory administration. The letter to the government begging for lockdown has, presumably, been written by officers, encouraged by the North of Tyne Mayor, a Corbyn supporter whose activities, since being elected several years ago, appear to be negligible.

Northumberland is a county unitary, covering a huge, rural, sparsely populated area of market towns, villages and open moorland. The only area with any population density is the former coalfield area in the south east corner, where it borders North Tyneside. The only significant level of ‘cases’ is in that area. There are miles and miles of nothing. If this local lockdown is imposed on the whole county, local small businesses, such as restaurants and village pubs, will suffer further detriment for no valid reason, and local people will (officially-this is Border Reiver country!) have even more draconian restrictions on their ability to mix with family and friends. Farming families, living in separate households on their own land, would be officially forbidden to mix with each other.

I have written to the local Tory MP, and the new Deputy Leader of the Council, an old friend, to protest about this and encouraged others to do the same. However, I wonder what the motivation is for the council to send this letter.

There will, of course, be the sanctimonious ‘solidarity’ nonsense. People here feel no solidarity with Gateshead or Sunderland; they are another world and one that we don’t particularly want to visit! I suspect, though, that the reason is money. Presumably councils that are subject to local lockdown measures receive extra money from the government. Newcastle has already received a huge pot, which it has spent on pointless and much hated cycle lanes. This will, no doubt, yield more.

Beware county unitaries!!

131307 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #160 of 1090 🔗

I hail from the Socialist Republic of North Tyneside, and know at first hand how things have worked in and around the local council bordering you in Northumberland. Get in touch with Linda Arkley (was mayor of NT) – she might be able to help. By way of background, Labour in that area love their little tricks – the smear normally involves something worse (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Morgan_(politician) ).

Good luck.

131527 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #161 of 1090 🔗

But it will be like Sturgeon land where the grateful sheppies will thank their betters for keeping them safe and lives are more important than business.

131249 DRW, replying to DRW, 4, #162 of 1090 🔗

Someone should actually create BeBopRockSteady’s “Lockdown Zealots” website, satirical like the CoronavirusCirclejerk subreddit. And the best part would be that at least one zealous prat would actually take it seriously!

131272 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DRW, #163 of 1090 🔗

A chance to signal their virtue, rat on their neighbours and slag off Wetherspoons? They’ll flock to it 🙂

131297 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, #164 of 1090 🔗

Commercialize it heavily …

131252 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 14, #165 of 1090 🔗

2nd letter to my local MP who said:

“On testing, I’m afraid that I do not agree that the increase in positive results is solely due to increased community testing, as confirmed by the Chief Medical Officer.”

Thought i’d send a reply with some graphs which would make my point after seeing those graphs on Toby’s page. Here it is if anyone wishes to use it for their own elected nitwit lol.

Hi Dan,
thanks for the quick response, I wasn’t expecting to hear anything for a few days given the current situation. I appreciate that you will no doubt be inundated with correspondance making arguments for all kinds of different approaches to the current situation. If I could, I would like to have 2 more minutes of your time to cast your eyes over some relevant data regards testing?
I was dissappointed with your response regards the current situation regards ever increasing numbers of “new cases” so just wanted to highlight actual data to back up my assertion. I think/hope the three different graphs I’m going to provide links for below may possibly start to make you think differently about this.

First graph shows the volume of tests per 1,000 people that have been done in the UK from April onwards.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&testsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

Second graph shows the number of confirmed cases per 1 million people in the UK.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

Third graph shows the share/rate of tests undertaken that actually come back as positive.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01 ..latest&country=~GBR&region=World&positiveTestRate=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=total_deaths&pickerSort=desc

The last graph while showing a slight uptick in the share of positive tests to 1.3%, is still ridiculously low to warrant the draconian “rule of six” and other measures currently being imposed on the population, especially when you factor in the possibiltiy of false positives and the fact that a positive test does not constitute an infectious individual. As per Prof Robert Dingwall (NERVTAG) recently said while trying to justify the NHS and Govt stance on their decision to remove elderly patients from hospitals and return them to their care homes without testing them first:

“The problem is that the PCR tests are so sensitive that they can detect RNA when the virus itself is inactive and no longer infective. It is only being cleared from the body. This can go on for several weeks so you would be keeping people in hospital unnecessarily”

This was in the Daily Telegraph several weeks ago and I took a screenshot (attached) as the article is behind a paywall and I thought it was pertinent at the time. Given the above you must surely see that the more tests conducted, the more “new cases” your going to find as there is a small percentage of the population either infected or with the remnents of RNA still to be cleared from their bodies? The only real way of acurately measuring spreading of a virus through a given population would surely be a static number of random tests undertaken each day as then an increase in positive tests, as a share of the number tests taken, gives a better indication of prevaIence of Covid-19 RNA within the population?

I appreciate that you have been taking whatever the Chief Medical Office has said as gospel but i’m hoping the above may start to make you think more critically about the Govt taking the number of new cases as an accurate indicator of the severity of our situation? Thanks ever so much for reading this, I appreciate it’s my 2nd email in 2 days. Any feedback, opinions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time,

131481 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to NonCompliant, 6, #166 of 1090 🔗

Send him my (ignored) letter to Hancock and Hunt about a FOI request answer I had on PCR tests:

Matthew John David Hancock
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care

Jeremy Richard Streynsham Hunt
Chair of the Health and Social Care Select Committee

I have received and answer to a FOI request back from your department, the DHSC, about the PCR tests they are using and what the results mean.

One of my questions and the most important:

-supply the justification that a “positive” test means the person is suffering from the virus as is a danger to the public and must be isolated.

The answer:

SARS-CoV-2 RNA means the RNA is present in that sample at that point in time. It does not mean that the patient has the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). Patients can have SARS-CoV-2 RNA before onset of illness, during the illness and after resolution of symptoms (all variable periods). The result has to be taken into context of symptoms present.

So my question to you both in your positions as Secretary of State for Health and as the Chair of the Parliamentary Committee on Health and Social Care is:

SO A POSITIVE TEST MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE CONTEXT OF “SUFFERING” FROM THE PIECES OF VIRAL MATERIAL DETECTED IN THE TEST SAMPLE SO WHY THE CONTINUING ADHERENCE TO INSISTING THAT A PERSON WHO TESTS POSITIVE MUST BE ISOLATED FOR 14 DAYS AND AREAS ARE TO BE PLACED INTO FURTHER LOCAL LOCKDOWNS BASED ON THE SAME MEANINGLESS TEST RESULT?

They also provided a link to a document by Health Technology Wales which in answer to this question:

– the official policy/guidance from DHSC to the various bodies who are following the above policy. I can confirm that the Department holds information relevant to your request. As the information held by the Department is in the public domain, we will under Section 21 of the FOI Act (information accessible to the applicant by other means) refer you to the published source, a summary of evidence on the accuracy of the test,

https://www.healthtechnology.wales/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/EAR025-COVID19-diagnostics-report-v2.6.pdf

It does include a few notable gems such as (the paper’s original comments in blue with their updates in umber and with my notes in red):

We identified 39 individual studies and one pooled analysis reporting outcomes including diagnostic accuracy, detection rates and the time taken to obtain test results. We carried out quality assessment of the studies and judged the majority to be at risk of bias in one or more aspect of their design or conduct, which means their results may not be reliable. So not too accurate then these studies?

Some studies did not include methods of confirmatory/differential diagnosis to validate the test results obtained (e.g. the proportion of likely false positive and negative results). A pooled analysis estimated the sensitivity of an initial RT-PCR test result to be 89%, using results of repeated RT-PCR as the reference standard. So does this mean that there is an estimated 11% false result?

There are important gaps in the available evidence on the effectiveness of tests for the presence of SARS-CoV-2. Studies of virus testing in asymptomatic patients, or in specific populations such as healthcare workers are limited in number and there is no evidence on the validated diagnostic performance of the tests beyond their use in the hospital setting. So pretty useless then?

a true assessment of the accuracy of RT-PCR test results is very challenging, and using these RT-PCR for validation mean the same issues apply to the results of antibody tests studied in this way. so the test has lots of problems with accuracy and the antibody test cannot be used for doublechecking the results due to these inaccuracies?

So basically as admitted by the DHSC you are using tests that are “unreliable” to say the least, have no reference standard to double check the accuracy against and that have results that means nothing medically?

And yet you still pump out the continuous propaganda that whole swathes of the population have to be put into isolation and incarceration based on these tests and results.

An explanation would be very much appreciated by myself and many other people as there has been absolutely nothing coming from Government for months now that makes any kind of sense.

Yours in growing exasperation and disgust.

131253 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #167 of 1090 🔗

Here they are:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending4september2020

  • In Week 36, the number of deaths registered was 15.7% below the five-year average (1,443 fewer deaths); this is the first time since Week 32 that weekly deaths have been below the five-year average.
  • Of the deaths registered in Week 36, 78 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, the lowest number of deaths involving COVID-19 in the last 25 weeks and a 22.8% decrease compared with Week 35 (a difference of 23 deaths), accounting for 1.0% of all deaths in England and Wales.
131265 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sarigan, 3, #168 of 1090 🔗

Even allowing for the Bank Holiday, if you are looking for a second wave/surge/deadly plague/apocalypse… Sorry, there’s nothing to see here!

131261 Mark, replying to Mark, 35, #169 of 1090 🔗

And here’s perhaps the biggest problem we’ve faced. John Stuart Mill argued for free speech on the basis that we can have no way of having any confidence in our own opinions about anything if they are not able to withstand free challenge by those who disagree with them, it’s imo the strongest argument made for freedom of speech. In this coronapanic we have had our information actively censored and therefore slanted, and dissenting opinions have been censored and punished.

Thus the vast majority of the people who support the government line (anyone who does not actively search for dissenting opinion and information) have no basis for believing in the opinions they hold, except deference to authority and groupthink.

From the beginning, dissenting scientists and mathematicians were told that expressing their opinions was “dangerous”, and found it hard to get reported. Same for other experts, from lawyers to economists and politicians. The BBC and most mainstream media, as well as big tech social media, has taken the same position – dissent is dangerous and can and should be censored. Gabriela Gomes (preprint from May at Medrxiv ) has struggled to get her vital research out because:

“[S]cience journals refuse to publish it. Our most recent preprint estimating relatively low herd immunity thresholds has just been rejected. The top reason was: “Given the implications for public health, it is appropriate to hold claims around the herd immunity threshold to a very high evidence bar, as these would be interpreted to justify relaxation of interventions, potentially placing people at risk.”

Youtube, Facebook and the rest have openly declared that disagreement with WHO guidance can and will be censored for the supposed greater good, and numerous cases of their doing exactly that are on record. As Toby reported here, a LinkedIn member recently reported having his account restored on condition he agrees “not to post content which may “interfere in or improperly influence an election” or “directly contradicts guidance from leading global health organisations and public health authorities”.”

Anyone who thinks the BBC and mainstream newspapers and broadcast media have not been actively biasing their coverage to encourage compliance with government dictats (again, for the supposed “greater good”) is frankly extremely ignorant and naïve.

Is it a coincidence that we are living through, globally, perhaps the most disastrous period of mis-government in history (certainly to judge by the costs of the panic response, in lives lost, economic disaster, and loss of liberty)? Seems to me we are living through a harsh demonstration of the central importance of freedom of speech.

131294 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 10, #170 of 1090 🔗

And the connected right to peaceful assembly – when one’s opinions/thoughts/beliefs can be discussed and challenged by others.

As to ‘mis-government’, I think they’ve achieved exactly what they set out to. A pretend panic response is not a panic response, Mark.

131302 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 5, #171 of 1090 🔗

As to ‘mis-government’, I think they’ve achieved exactly what they set out to. A pretend panic response is not a panic response, Mark .”

Clearly we lie at separate points on the cock-up/conspiracy spectrum, but tbh it’s “mis-government” (or mis-rule) either way, whether it’s intentional or incompetent.

132277 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #172 of 1090 🔗

Clearly we lie at separate points on the cock-up/conspiracy spectrum, but tbh it’s “mis-government” (or mis-rule) either way, whether it’s intentional or incompetent.

It certainly is. I guess which one it is matters mostly in determining our response/strategy/tactics.

131323 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, 2, #173 of 1090 🔗

Yes, agree with freedom of speech and the right to peaceful assembly – many other political issues are important but all take a back seat while the corona madness and evil continue, but freedom of speech and protest seem to me to be inextricably linked – the lack of them has helped us get to where we are and are keeping us there. I think it’s going to be hard to solve one without the other.

131427 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Mark, 2, #174 of 1090 🔗

Thanks, Mark. Nailed it!

131712 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Mark, 1, #175 of 1090 🔗

Very well put. I have copied this, for my own library to use in potential arguments.
Thank you.

131268 hotrod, 7, #176 of 1090 🔗

Only 1% of deaths in England and Wales now linked to Covid, ONS says

Only 1% of deaths in England and Wales in the week ending 4 September involved coronavirus, according to the latest weekly death statistics from the Office for National Statistics. Of the 7,739 deaths registered that week, 78 had Covid mentioned on the death certificate. That is the lowest number of Covid deaths in the last 25 weeks, the ONS says.

Overall deaths in the week ending 4 September were also 15.7% below the five-year average for this time of year, the report says.

131276 Sarigan, #177 of 1090 🔗

https://twitter.com/Anshul__K/status/1305529431805628419?s=19

Estimate how many positives we would have had at the peak if we were testing as much as we are now – using 205,659 processed P1 & P2 tests that were reported on September 10th.

Interesting thread and an excellent chart showing the same for France lower down. It really puts everything into context.

131279 FatBastardMcKenzie, 9, #178 of 1090 🔗

I now understand Sebastien-Roch-Nicolas Chamfort a little better:

“A man should swallow a toad every morning to be sure of not meeting with anything more revolting in the day ahead.”

I suppose nowadays a woman should do the same, too.

131281 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #179 of 1090 🔗

All quiet on the sunak green recovery £10k to insulate your home front.

If forgotten it was announced at the same time as free ~prison~ lockdown meals out and apprenticeship schemes for big business – not for those employing less than 30 apprentices.

131365 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Basics, 1, #180 of 1090 🔗

Suspect they have been able to attract firms to do the work to sign up. Spoke to a large glazing business up here and they weren’t bothering as they had seen a similar scheme fail nearly 20 years ago. There are apparently loads of conditions and means testing etc so the chances of actually getting a grant are pretty remote.

131857 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard, #181 of 1090 🔗

Yes always fall through – its how we recover..

131852 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #182 of 1090 🔗

Thanks concrete. The salesman said starting in September, interesting it will be delayed to October.

131282 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #183 of 1090 🔗

Has anyone who is tech savvy considered making a website – ‘what are my chances?’

People could type in their postcode, their age, whether they smoke etc and the computer says – ‘You have an x% of catching Covid and an x% chance of dying from Covid’

Sounds simple but I’ve yet to see one.

131285 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #184 of 1090 🔗

Try https://www.freelancer.com/

Put a job spec up for your requirements and you will get a load of developers bidding for the work to create your website.

131288 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 3, #185 of 1090 🔗

This is a service I’ve long wished Toby could offer here in some form. I’d want my money to go to web developers etc who are sound sceptics. Perhaps a section of the forum: “Sceptical businesses/services for hire”, or somesuch.

131300 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mark, 1, #186 of 1090 🔗

Agree. I’d rather it be a labour of love than just another job for someone who may or may not want it to run well.

131314 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #187 of 1090 🔗

Yes, and the potential issue of sabotage (active or passive) that you touch on there might be remote, but it’s not nothing.

131286 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tom Blackburn, 12, #188 of 1090 🔗

Even better if they listed your chances of dying from other things in descending order. Covid probably wouldn’t make it in to the top 20 for most people.

131299 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #189 of 1090 🔗

There’s a “Covid Age” calculator at the ALAMA website: https://alama.org.uk/covid-19-medical-risk-assessment/

I’m not endorsing it, simply reporting it. However it is in use, for example by universities, in deciding whether or not staff have a valid case for asking to work at home or in non-public-facing positions.

131383 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Richard Pinch, #190 of 1090 🔗

It’s being used by my local University (where my wife works) I entered my details and IIRC I came out with an age of 78 (I am a 64 y.o. male with type 2 diabetes)

131308 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #191 of 1090 🔗

It would need to be capable of supporting answers to several decimal places as for most people the answer will be very small indeed at this stage. Maybe 5 decimal places and below that rounded to 0%

131315 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #192 of 1090 🔗

You could contact these guys who created one for flying – https://www.fearofflying.app/

I use it a lot with clients who are scared of flying.

131334 ▶▶ cloud6, replying to Tom Blackburn, #193 of 1090 🔗

Happy to oblige, while it’s not scientific it will give you an idea….

https://ncov2019.live/calculator

131338 ▶▶ nat, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #194 of 1090 🔗

Here’s one, it is an American site, I don’t know if it is effective for non Americans but might be helpful
t https://www.stopcovidcold.com

132249 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to nat, #195 of 1090 🔗

One of those calculators said I’d a 36% chance of dying, the next one said my risk was “average” and the university one gave my Covid age as 61 so I’m none the wiser!

131284 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 12, #196 of 1090 🔗

This was very interesting. Basically everything was rosy in New Zealand. Ok, so no one was allowed to leave or enter but St Jacinda was getting plaudits from all and sundry for her handling of the Covid issue. No masks, life basically continuing as normal. Then they decide to start testing people with no symptoms, something they had not been doing previously. Suprise, suprise – they discover new “cases”. Panic, lockdown, masks. Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcONxyAJ8S4&feature=youtu.be

131295 ▶▶ Will, replying to Chicot, 8, #197 of 1090 🔗

I wonder if it might be something to do with false positives, highlighted by ludicrous amplification cycles…

131301 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Will, 6, #198 of 1090 🔗

Exactly but I meant why manufacture a lockdown out of nothing? Unless you believe they’re so stupid they didn’t realise this would happen.

131320 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Chicot, 3, #199 of 1090 🔗

Yes, I do believe that they are so stupid!

Why, oh why, oh why, do so many people on here assume that because a monkey has stood for parliament – in a constituency where a nematode worm wearing the right coloured rosette would be elected – that they are super intelligent?

131348 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to John P, 1, #200 of 1090 🔗

Who said they are “super intelligent”?

131408 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to John P, 4, #201 of 1090 🔗

I think many of us believe the MPs we are dealing with are intelligent enough to grasp this.

I agree there is a wilful ignorance and I don’t understand why.

131505 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to John P, 3, #202 of 1090 🔗

Somebody somewhere, maybe even in here, likened politicians to chimps running a nuclear power station. Maybe a little cruel towards the chimps.

131343 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Chicot, 3, #203 of 1090 🔗

I don’t know why but countries all over the place trying the same thing.

131345 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to nat, 2, #204 of 1090 🔗

Because they are all being run by fucking idiots who don’t know what they are doing. They just copy each other!

132044 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to nat, 1, #205 of 1090 🔗

The answer is in the question. Countries all over the place are trying the same thing.

Politicians generally are not independent thinkers. They are the best bullshitters in the flock with a special ability to make all the other sheep think they know what is going on. In reality they are just quick readers of the way the flock is moving and have the ability to move themselves quickly to the front to give the impression they are leading.

131364 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Chicot, 8, #206 of 1090 🔗

Because otherwise they have to admit the Chinese communist party played them for absolute fools and they have destroyed our western economies and health care systems for no good reason. Oh yes, and almost every country chucked the most vulnerable into care homes with other vulnerable people and left them to die…

131398 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Will, 5, #207 of 1090 🔗

That applies to most countries but I’m not sure it applies to NZ. Apart from sealing themselves off from the rest of the world (admittedly destroying their tourism industry) they were going about their business more or less as normal and are now in a crisis all of their own making.

131844 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Chicot, #208 of 1090 🔗

Great comment thanks. Why indeed.

131290 Rachel.C, replying to Rachel.C, 9, #209 of 1090 🔗

When writing to MP don’t forget to raise the False Positive Rate issue. All this worry about testing capability is irrelevant if the FPR is 99% – see “Government Innumeracy” article on this site. The cover up over the FPR is the biggest scandal in this whole crazy and sinister situation.

131319 ▶▶ John P, replying to Rachel.C, #210 of 1090 🔗

Again, there is no evidence for a “cover up” of the FPR issue. Ministers are numerically illiterate. Thick .

Why is this not getting through?

131327 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to John P, 3, #211 of 1090 🔗

It wouldn’t be a very good cover up if there was evidence. Hancock studied for a BA in Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) at Exeter College, Oxford , and an MPhil in Economics at Christ’s College, Cambridge , as a postgraduate student. He was an economist at the Bank of England before serving as a senior economic adviser and then later Chief of Staff to George Osborne . Surely he is not thick and is in fact pretty good with numbers?

131333 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sarigan, 1, #212 of 1090 🔗

So he has an economics degree. That doesn’t make him an expert on health related matters.

You have him operate on members of your family.

And NO having an economics degree does not make you pretty good with numbers. For that you need a mathematics degree.

As for the rest of it. So bloody what? He just knows who to suck up to. “Jobs for the boys.”

131357 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, 3, #213 of 1090 🔗

He certainly ought to be. He has said he is dyslexic, so he must be good at Maths, otherwise, how did he get into Oxford, then get a job at the BoE?

131372 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Sarigan, 3, #214 of 1090 🔗

PPE isn’t a proper degree. It’s a 3 year cocktail party and networking event

131377 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to steve_w, #215 of 1090 🔗

Sort of true. Also the case that many (at least in my day) essentially dropped the E in second year as it is a bit trickier than the two Ps. However, even by Oxford standards, not easy to get a place – although it helps if your headmaster/headmistress has College-specific contacts!

131412 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #216 of 1090 🔗

Even a pure economics degree isn’t worth wiping your arse on. It’s for people who couldn’t do STEM. If you wanted to be a brilliant economist you’d do STEM first and then economics as a postdoc. You can teach a Physicist economics but you can’t teach an economist Physics.

131484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to steve_w, #217 of 1090 🔗

Not quite. Tried that. STEM to Economics sometimes works, depending on the particular bit of STEM.

131526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steve_w, 3, #218 of 1090 🔗

This is true. An engineer, a mathematician, an economist and a prostitute are all sat, socially distanced, in a pub, discussing whose is the oldest profession.

The engineer claimed his was the oldest profession, because it took engineers to build civilisation, from houses to tools. The prostitute claimed hers was the oldest profession, because as long as there have been men working away from home, such as engineers building civilisation, they have needed relief from their base urges.

The mathematician piped up, claiming hers as the oldest profession, because God needed a mathematical model in order to create the universe from chaos.

Then the economist joined the fray. “And who do you think created all the chaos in the first place?”

131362 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to John P, 8, #219 of 1090 🔗

I am sorry John but I can’t believe that, I am not a teacher and didn’t study maths beyond 16 but understand the False positive maths and explained it to my ten year old son with little difficulty. The politicians and scientists understand the issue, without doubt, it is just that they are choosing to ignore it. The reason for their wilful ignorance is the question.

131367 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Will, 2, #220 of 1090 🔗

I think they are that thick. I know a relatively senior civil servant working on covid. I had to explain to him what the IFR meant last week

131388 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to steve_w, 1, #221 of 1090 🔗

And I work for a large consultancy company working with Gov on such projects, not me personally. The level of understanding by some can leave a lot to be desired

131704 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Will, 2, #222 of 1090 🔗

The government/NHS/whatever provide us with figures daily/weekly that show it is going away. Yet,they lie to us and contradict their own information. They really are pissing on our shoes and telling us it is raining.

131363 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Rachel.C, 16, #223 of 1090 🔗

I noticed that my MP had written to Matt Hancock about the lack of tests available in my home city. I emailed him to ask him to write again to Mr Hancock to ask him the following questions:

  1. How many Ct cycles are used in the laboratories which process the tests in the city?
  2. What is the percentage of false positives for these tests?
  3. Has the increased numbers of positive tests in this city been accompanied by a corresponding rise in hospitalisations, people in ICU and deaths?
  4. When is Mr Hancock planning to investigate the validity of these PCR tests as he apparently promised a fellow MP he would do?
  5. When will Mr Hancock start to consider the wellbeing of the 99.5% of the U.K. population who have not been affected by Covid 19 (apart from financially, educationally, socially and health care wise)?
  6. When will Mr Hancock and the government stop treating the British public as idiots over a disease which has apparently killed 0.01% of the world population with an average age of death of 80?
  7. We have been awaiting a promised second wave for months now following BLM protests, full beaches, VE Day etc. When will Mr Hancock declare the “second wave” narrative to be at an end?
  8. When will the government stop describing positive PCR tests as cases? They should only be used for diagnosis with accompanying X rays and blood tests.
  9. Could the Secretary of State for health please provide me with the scientific evidence that has guided the government to introduce its “rule of six”?

There were a few more questions but I’m sure you get the drift!

131435 ▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to Margaret, 1, #224 of 1090 🔗

Brilliant and spot on.

131563 ▶▶▶ Rachel.C, replying to Margaret, 1, #225 of 1090 🔗

Thanks. Good points for my next attempt.

131292 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 17, #226 of 1090 🔗

Sod Coronavirus I’m still worrying about nuclear war, rabies and those African killer bees.

131394 ▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, 1, #227 of 1090 🔗

Never mind that, with your name you ought to be worrying about the Tortoise, which can not only beat you in a race but also kill you if it happens to fall on your head.

131492 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to annie, 2, #228 of 1090 🔗

We need to Lockdown all eagles and large birds of prey ,no in fact lockdown all of our feathered friends as a large flock of Sparrers could also carry a tortoise into the air and cause Tortoise fallout , perhaps seagulls could act as Tortoise Marshall’s??

131508 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #229 of 1090 🔗

My worry is a move to cull all bats.

131623 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to tonyspurs, #230 of 1090 🔗

Save lives. Wear a helmet.

Don’t have a helmet? A saucepan or a colander will do.

131687 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to annie, #231 of 1090 🔗

Only if you are an ancient Greek..

131296 IMoz, 9, #232 of 1090 🔗

According to the ONS, deaths for week 36 (ending 4 Sep) of 2020:-

Total: 7739 (down from 9032 prev. week, down from 9182 5Y average)
‘flu/pneumonia: 874 (down from 1040 prev. week)
COVID-19: 78 (down from 101 prev. week)

‘flu/pneumonia:COVID-19 ratio is just over 11.8:1 (10.3:1 prev. week), COVID-19 mentions as a proportion of all-cause deaths: 0.956% (prev. week 1.12%), ‘flu/pneumonia: 11.23% (prev. week 11.51%)

‘flu/pneumonia to COVID-19 ratio still is going up more than a month after the increase in mask wearing, while no causation can be claimed, what can be claimed with even more confidence now is that this indicates that wearing face “coverings” does not protect against aerosolised infection.

Ref: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending4september2020

131298 nat, replying to nat, 35, #233 of 1090 🔗

Some very good news in the battle against the WHO’s censorship of dissenting voices. The Children’s Health Defence (CHD), founded by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., is suing Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, and three fact-checking organisations for censoring public health posts about vaccine safety and for fraudulently misrepresenting and defaming CHD by labelling their website fake news. The case shines a spotlight on Facebook’s coordinated censorship campaign with the WHO. CHD is a non-profit watchdog group that exposes corruption in the pharmaceutical industry and federal agencies, including Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the World Health Organization (WHO), and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC).

Kennedy has form taking on large industries; he bought the first case against Monsanto on behalf of a plaintiff who developed cancer from exposure to Roundup, Monsanto’s widely used herbicide, and the company was ordered to pay US$289 million in damages. That landmark case led the way to further successful outcomes for other victims – lets hope this case has similar success exposing these insidious conflicts of interest.

131304 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to nat, 3, #234 of 1090 🔗

Great post

131346 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Victoria, 2, #235 of 1090 🔗

Thank you Victoria, that’s funny I just replied to your post, also about the CHD. Kennedy’s smashing it at the moment !

131303 Nsklent, replying to Nsklent, 10, #236 of 1090 🔗

My nephew is home from school with sore throat, earache and a cough. Similar symptoms in other children. Although colds and throat infections are to be expected it would be interesting to know the numbers in comparison to other years, especially as it is still only early Setember and mild weather. Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with what would have been a mild bacterial throat infection being enhanced to a greater one by having a superb environment, that is exhaling into a mask, with which the bacteria can proliferate.

131318 ▶▶ John P, replying to Nsklent, 5, #237 of 1090 🔗

Who knows? Sounds like just another bug doing the rounds. You can speculate endlessly about these things and not achieve very much. Young children are very susceptible to them and they are largely harmless.

131734 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Nsklent, 6, #238 of 1090 🔗

Of course if the children wear a mask and they have a mild bacterial infection it will get worse. They re-breathe the bacteria, which love the damp environment in the fabric and happily multiply in it, as the mask surely has not been washed in forever, and them fiddling with it, etc etc.
Even my nurse mother who commented about my depressive aunt: depression? Just pull yourself together!! confirmed to me just recently how bad masks are and increase the likelihood of getting ill.

131306 HelenaHancart, replying to HelenaHancart, 28, #239 of 1090 🔗

Was in the park yesterday and watched as four mums and five kids ambled past in one direction, obviously one big group, and two PCSOs ambled past them, in the other direction. No one batted an eyelid. Earlier I was at my GP surgery for a blood test. On pain of DEATH I was to wear a face covering. I’ve got a cheapo, cheapo, visor thing for such emergencies as I needed my appointment and I like to pick my battles wisely. On arrival there were about seven staff drifting around, all in each other’s space and only two wearing masks! There was one other person in the waiting room without a farce marsk on either. Even the nurse who I know, KNOWS more than she saying, only put her face shield on when she greeted me. I’m feeling more and more, despite the desperate doom-mongering being pushed out, that the tide is turning.

131325 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to HelenaHancart, 15, #240 of 1090 🔗

I’ve had an appointments at my opticians and dentists recently and both instructed me to wear a mask on arrival. On both occasions I telephoned ahead and said that I had an exemption and that if they insisted I would comply–but reluctantly! (I need my teeth OK and my specs sorted after all!). Both said that was fine and I attended both appointments mask less. I haven’t had occasion to visit my doctor’s surgery since lock down but I will take the same tack if I do.
You’re right about picking your battles wisely and it’s self defeating to cut your nose off to spite your face but declaring exemptions carries a lot of weight—and rightly so.

131349 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #241 of 1090 🔗

Just had my reminder text for Contact Lens checkup, not made appt yet, but we’ll see what they say. Interesting that not only are *we* exempt, but their premises are, too. I’ll be sat within snogging distance of my practitioner, so might give in there in a private room, but not waiting in the shop, which will probably be empty, anyway.

131354 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #242 of 1090 🔗

‘Give in’ to the face covering, that is!

131378 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #243 of 1090 🔗

Although my dentist was fully masked up he is totally sceptic. During our chat (in between pulling and pushing my face) he agreed with me when I said : ‘you can’t get rid of a virus by government decree’!

My optometrist (the one who does the actual eye test) was also masked up but was friendly, chatty and as ‘normal’ as could be.

131393 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #244 of 1090 🔗

Good to know, Harry. My mileage may vary, but they are a reasonable lot, and I’ve beenn going for years. I’ll report back eventually.

131453 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #245 of 1090 🔗

As far as I can remember my dentists have all always been masked up anyway, more for their hygiene than disease prevention. I wouldn’t fancy being showered in drool all the time.

131411 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to HelenaHancart, 3, #246 of 1090 🔗

I really really hope you are right.

131433 ▶▶ Will, replying to HelenaHancart, 7, #247 of 1090 🔗

The number of people who think the emperor is disrobed is, actually, increasing exponentially. Quite what it will take to tip the see saw is anyone’s guess but the number of people Johnson could now chuck under the bus wouldn’t actually fit on the bus, “socially distanced” or not.

131881 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Will, 1, #248 of 1090 🔗

It’s possible that the Rule of 6 may have the same impact on public scepticism as Dominic Cummings’ road trip. Personally, I’d been ready to give the government the benefit of the doubt until that point. Now 100% sceptic.

131316 John Stone, 3, #249 of 1090 🔗

I found long before the present episode that a group email I sent out with the words ‘World Stealth Organisation’ in the title was blocked – this was probably 2018. It really seems as if criticising the WHO flicks some of switch with Google.

131321 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #250 of 1090 🔗
131336 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #251 of 1090 🔗

Exactly the same at mine, 20 per day max since it opened.

131342 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 1, #252 of 1090 🔗

Tall/Karen, good to know. I’ve actively avoided going near ours, just don’t wanna know sort of thing, but maybe I should start paying attention. We have local restrictions after all.

131366 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #253 of 1090 🔗

Yet I know of one care worker whose weekly testing kit did not arrive being directed 160 miles sway to get a test. She cannot work until tested.

131337 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #254 of 1090 🔗

I have been past our town’s testing station 4-5 times at different times of the day since it opened no more than a month ago. I have yet to see 1 person there!

If this is the deal with a lot of stations – where are these testing figures coming from.

131340 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #255 of 1090 🔗

I don’t do Twitter but a reply to the post.

My brother has a sickness and diarrhea bug and was told he needs to take a test, he couldn’t get a test as they have run out of tests, after phoning 119 for a home test he was on hold for 45 mins then cut off.

Why the fuck would he need a test for probable norovirus.

131356 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to stefarm, 1, #256 of 1090 🔗

Exactly!

All he needed was activated charcoal, stops diarrhoea in its tracks. Very effective for norovirus

131399 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Victoria, #257 of 1090 🔗

I normally have a spoonful of gravy granules, thickens it up.

131374 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to stefarm, 1, #258 of 1090 🔗

Actually he should not go out until back to normal for 48 hour, even for a SARS-COV-2 test. Needs to keep hydrated.

131403 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to p02099003, 1, #259 of 1090 🔗

Indeed, diahroea and dehydration is probably more dangerous than ‘it’

131344 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, #260 of 1090 🔗

I’ve seen quite a few videos of them of YouTube with people who drive to them to see what is going on. Mostly deserted or decommissioned, and they all have lots of “No Filming” signs there with the Army there to put a bit of pressure on if you’re spotted.

131322 stefarm, 3, #261 of 1090 🔗

https://brandnewtube.com/v/vjbKGF

We’re not gonna take it anymore

131326 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #263 of 1090 🔗

Daily Mail: Man is spotted wearing a SNAKE instead of a face mask as he takes ride on the bus.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8734357/Man-spotted-wearing-SNAKE-instead-face-mask-takes-ride-bus.html

131328 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #264 of 1090 🔗

Style …

131371 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #265 of 1090 🔗

When’s this gonna become mandatory?

131390 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to JohnB, 1, #266 of 1090 🔗

DON’T ENCOURAGE THEM!!!

131448 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JohnB, 1, #267 of 1090 🔗

This could be the answer. Putting something far more dangerous over our mouths. What next?…

131332 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 12, #268 of 1090 🔗

BBCR 2 Midday today, Jeremy Vine
1) would you snitch on someone breaking the Rule of 6 ! ?”
2) Tim Harford discussing risk in relation to the Covid
JV concludes intro “I dunno you have to walk past 27,000 people to find someone who’d got it ! “

131369 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #269 of 1090 🔗

Tim Harford is good value, recent article in the FT stating that for any one day, the chance of getting COVID and dying is 44 in a million. Only fly in the ointment is he is a “second waver” (at the end of the article).

131472 ▶▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to Ozzie, #270 of 1090 🔗

He’s also a ‘lockdown sooner would have saved x lives because Professor Ferguson’s model says so’ advocate.

He’s been a disappointment as far as I’m concerned.

132287 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ozzie, #271 of 1090 🔗

Pretty wishy washy interview but the one interesting thing that Tim Harford said was
“I’m not sure that there will be a second wave…”.

131341 Dave, 8, #272 of 1090 🔗

Just watched the video of the Dr Atlas interview. Wow. Just change America to UK and it’s an almost perfect fit. The entire Cabinet should be locked in a room and forced to watch it.

His top 10 tips:
1-9 Use critical thinking when you’re looking at the evidence;
10 Understand the impact of the health policy before implementation.

131350 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #273 of 1090 🔗

https://zdoggmd.com/jay-bhattacharya/

Long radio interview just published

Dr Bhattachayra is a Stanford physician and economist and co-author of several serological studiea on COVID-19.
In this must-watch interview, we talk about EVERYTHING, including the true IFR, comparisons to influenza, drama around his Santa Clara antibody trial, reinfections, vaccine development, economic and social impacts, why we must open schools now, the horrors of censorship of scientists and opposing dialog how Stanford is contributing to the problem of stifling dissenting opinions, Dr. Scott Atlas and his advisory role to the president,empathy vs.compassion with regards to COVID, and MUCH MORE.

131487 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, #274 of 1090 🔗

https://twitter.com/smerconish/status/1305591396217360385

This is a shorter interview radio different with him and Dr Martin Kulldorf Harward about C-19 and schools.Both from common sense experts at Stanford and Harward

131353 swedenborg, 9, #275 of 1090 🔗
131355 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 10, #276 of 1090 🔗

Probably already on here, but latest ONS deaths = 78…….1% of total deaths as per normal. Stay under your beds, wear a mask, live your life in bubble wrap and live to 100!

131359 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to John Ballard, 6, #277 of 1090 🔗

Yep. Percentage of total deaths over last four reports has gone 1.5, 1.4, 1.1, 1. I’m sure that should tell us something…

131368 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 16, #278 of 1090 🔗

If masks and all the other nonsense protect against viruses, why have so many people got colds?!

131370 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Caroline Watson, 11, #279 of 1090 🔗

Phase 2 will introduce a plastic bag over your head, with an elastic band round your neck. It protects others.

131389 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Caroline Watson, 8, #280 of 1090 🔗

Because they wear face nappies for hours on end which surely encourage and incubate colds and flu.

131401 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Caroline Watson, 4, #281 of 1090 🔗

None of the TJN household have worn masks, even once, and we’ve all got stonking colds.

I blame the maskoids and their spreading of viruses. Seriously.

About to open a new bottle of single malt and a new packet of lemsips.

131406 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to TJN, 3, #282 of 1090 🔗

Killer Virus Pandemic causes surge in drink and drugs abuse!!

131421 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #283 of 1090 🔗

Yes, thing is, that is a very serious point.

131443 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to TJN, #284 of 1090 🔗

Aren’t they expensive now!!!!

131544 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to CGL, #285 of 1090 🔗

Whisky or lemsips? The latter are about 46p each (tight aren’t I), and I only like expensive whisky.

I’ve got lots of bottles of malt which I got a decade and more ago now at reasonable prices, but will never want to drink them now knowing what hay are worth today …

131464 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to TJN, #286 of 1090 🔗

My grandparent’s shielded and are mask wearers, fair cop as they are both vulnerable – Granddad got a “nasty headcold” and then passed it to my Grandma, she’s made of stern stuff so laughed it off in a couple of days, now they’re both fine again.

131546 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to D B, #287 of 1090 🔗

They probably got it from the masks.

131376 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #288 of 1090 🔗

Caller on Vine asking “Do government ever think things through?” She agrees ‘six’ may be clear, but “it’s stupid”.

131380 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, #289 of 1090 🔗

She’s great! Shirley.

132288 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #290 of 1090 🔗

That was good old Cockerny Clair, 6 is stupid, should be 8, Jeremy suggested 10 but he was teasing her.

131381 swedenborg, 13, #291 of 1090 🔗

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.13.295691v1

If this non-prescription cough medicine was effective against C-19 would be a catastrophe for Big Pharma.This article just published from Texas.

 “Herein, we discovered that Ambroxol hydrochloride (AMB), and its progenitor, Bromhexine hydrochloride (BHH), both clinically approved drugs are potent effective modulators of the key interaction between the receptor binding domain (RBD) of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein and human ACE2. We also found that both compounds inhibited SARS-CoV-2 infection-induced cytopathic effect at micromolar concentrations. Therefore, in addition to the known TMPRSS2 activity of BHH; we report for the first time that the BHH and AMB pharmacophore has the capacity to target and modulate yet another key protein-protein interaction essential for the two known SARS-CoV-2 entry pathways into host cells. Altogether, the potent efficacy, excellent safety and pharmacologic profile of both drugs along with their affordability and availability, makes them promising candidates for drug repurposing as possible prophylactic and/or treatment options against SARS-CoV-2 infection.

131382 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 16, #292 of 1090 🔗

There is a real disease in science these days. It’s the Fallacy of Composition (FoC), the belief that the behaviour of a part of a system will be the behaviour of the whole system, at least with direct effect or some scaled version of it.

So what does that mean? Take masks for example. In a forward direction a cloth mask will stop droplets of a certain size and hence reduce overall transmission in that scenario.

Fine, you can demonstrate that.

But here is the FoC:

  1. Virus is contained in droplets
  2. Transmission of a virus by droplets is feasible
  3. Wearing a mask reduces droplet transmission hence should reduce viral transmission
  4. Wearing a mask in group settings will help reduce viral transmission in a group
  5. Wearing a mask will help reduce viral transmission in society.

The issue is that when you get to 3, 4 and 5 the scope of your original observation is no longer applicable because you need to characterise the other effects as the size of your environment increases. There are hidden assertions in there.

So saying that a local effect can be applied to the global is wrong. Saying “ceteris parebus” – all things being equal – is also wrong because that requires a level of assertion beyong the scope of your original measurements. Or in a more common way:

Don’t extrapolate beyond the bounds of your work.

However there is something more fundamental and it comes from studying systems. Systems will work to minimise energy and do that in anyway possible. That can be at a micro, meso or macro level. For a local effect to affect a whole system it needs to have a level of coherence between all other factors that is unseen in Nature, apart from in a Bose-Einstein condensate. The Butterfly that flaps its wings will rarely bring a hurricane as there is always noise in the system that prevents the effect from ballooning up. Unless of course the system is at a “tipping point”. But then many other things can influence the system so you’re also out of luck saying it was your thing.

So in our face masks scenario we can see that in society right now and for a few months, the transmission of the flu was unchanged. Overall numbers are down but not relative changes between weeks. So immediately there are other ways a virus can be transmitted that are both more effective and less affected by measures.

Another is Seatbelts save lives – for all road deaths, no they don’t. They will save you in your car but then you have an increased risk of being hit when out walking or on your bike from someone wearing a seatbelt. Risk compensation results in people driving that little bit faster due to an enhanced feeling of security as well as a detachment from awareness.

So remember this when you see all the Covid-19 nonsense or when someone talks about masks being like trousers for people pissing on each other. Just think, would that happen in a system? More than likely you already know the answer.

131392 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to mhcp, 4, #293 of 1090 🔗

Great explanation. Unfortunately this kind of reasoning seems well beyond the understanding of our politicians, our media and (scariest of all) our chief scientific advisers.

131407 ▶▶ assoc, replying to mhcp, 1, #294 of 1090 🔗

Hmmm. I was under the impression that the number of road deaths – pedestrians plus cyclists plus drivers – is lower now than it has been for many years

131410 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to assoc, 4, #295 of 1090 🔗

It lowered but not due to the introduction of seat belts. John Adams is the guy to look up. He shows how in for example Denmark, the declining rate of road deaths was interrupted and plateaued when seatbelts were introduced. Same as the UK I believe.

131418 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to mhcp, #296 of 1090 🔗

Yes i recall it had plateaued. Seems like many years ago!

131482 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to mhcp, 3, #297 of 1090 🔗

Or to put it in simple terms Mask Fanatics suffer from Premature Extrapolation.

132080 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to mhcp, #298 of 1090 🔗

Besides that, the reason masks might not reduce virus transmission is because people handling them could pass on the virus by touch. The counter argument from mask zealots is that people should be careful when handling their mask, but what people actually do is relevant, not what they should do.

131384 John P, replying to John P, -16, #299 of 1090 🔗

This is a little something for the conspiracy loons on here who think that passing exams makes you intelligent, and that the government is being run by a group of malevolent superbrains:

From the 1980s. Maureen Lipman on fine form: “You get an ology, you’re a scientist!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC_-r-J69qA

Passing exams does not make you intelligent.

131395 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to John P, 16, #300 of 1090 🔗

I don’t think that very many, if any, of the “conspiracy loons” (as you charmingly describe them) believe that the government is being run by a group of malevolent superbrains. They are puppets dancing to the tunes of others.

131404 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Chicot, 11, #301 of 1090 🔗

John Pretty is either a shill or by constantly time-wasting and picking pointless arguments managing to do a pretty accurate impression of one. MW

131405 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #302 of 1090 🔗

Yes, I have noticed that; I try to let people have their say even if I disagree with them (I don’t want to live in an echo-chamber) but he just seems to be taking the mick.

131422 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RichardJames, 7, #303 of 1090 🔗

I would say that I disagree with a fair proportion of what people say on here, mostly on ‘off-topic’ issues, but I’m so grateful for this sceptical forum that, like you, I live and let live. I’ve also had to open my mind about some things and I don’t think it’s done me much harm.

However, some posters just seem to be able to set hares running or pick holes in some posts for no good reason and that’s when I get suspicious. It would be incredible if this site wasn’t attracting that kind of attention, some of it more subtle than others! MW

131425 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #304 of 1090 🔗

It’s a technique known as ‘forum / topic sliding’

Easy to spot once you are aware

131415 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #305 of 1090 🔗

Yip shill

Best ignored if you can manage to

131432 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to anon, 3, #306 of 1090 🔗

It’s my policy too, Anon, but I thought it wouldn’t do any harm to flag it up Just once as people try to argue the toss with people like this and it’s such a waste of time. MW

131420 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #307 of 1090 🔗

My now truly enlightened OH asked me the other day ‘what’s this shill word you keep shouting’

I gave her the dictionary definition.

‘ahhh you mean everyone in the media’

131426 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to stefarm, 3, #308 of 1090 🔗

Lol. Yip!

131573 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #309 of 1090 🔗

We have at least a couple of trolls now. It’s reassuring they think we are enough of a threat to warrant them.

131594 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to nat, #310 of 1090 🔗

John Pretty has been posting here from the start and was recently congratulated by many regular posters here for posting the most lucid explanation of PCR testing to date. Compared with some of the offensive commentary here, doubtless brought on by frustration, posting an old BT advert hardly ranks high on the list. Nor does it seem he had any quarrel with the suggestion that Hancock was numerically illiterate; his comment seemed aimed at the relentless dissemination of conspiracy theories, which some find amusing, others don’t.

131751 ▶▶▶ Phoneutria, replying to Chicot, #311 of 1090 🔗

No, he’s someone with a different opinion. In this, of all sites, you should respect his right to hold and express it. Otherwise you’re no different to mask fascists, BLM extremists and “Rule, Brittania!” cancellers.

131829 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Phoneutria, 1, #312 of 1090 🔗

What? I’m guessing you were replying to someone other than me?

131428 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to John P, 13, #313 of 1090 🔗

I assume you are referring to me as one of the conspiracy loons as I suggested that Hancock is not numerically illiterate? I resent that tag and just because some do not agree with you and your take on the situation, does not mean you should label anyone as a loon. I simply do not believe that they are so ‘thick’ that they cannot be aware of the numbers and facts. I am not suggesting any malevolent superbrains but perhaps just trying to cover their arses without an embarrassing climb down. I do not however criticise or label anyone who thinks differently.

Also, I don’t give a shit what Maureen Lipman has got to say on the matter in a crappy BT advert.

131489 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, 2, #314 of 1090 🔗

Don’t waste your time replying, it’s quite obvious that the John Pretty account is just a bot.

131519 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 7, #315 of 1090 🔗

No but looking at what is in front of your face doesn’t make you a loon.
WHO declared a pandemic,the numbers are not even high enough for an epidemic.
WHO changed their guidance on face masks due to political pressure.
Bill gates is a major donor to WHO.He is also a major donor to Gavi the vaccine alliance.He has links to nearly all the major scientific advisors to the government.
Our government believes the only way out of this is a vaccine.
Do you not even think all that there are questions to answer regarding all this.

131897 ▶▶ Biker, replying to John P, #316 of 1090 🔗

I like your style bro, I too take great pleasure from talking bollocks

131386 swedenborg, 5, #317 of 1090 🔗

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-73308/v1

A further study showing that Ivermectin could be useful in C-19

“Binding of ivermectin in the active site of RdRp make clash with the nucleotides of RNA chain suggesting the possible inhibition of replication.
Conclusions: The present study suggests ivermectin as a potential inhibitor of RdRp which may be crucial to combat the SARS-CoV2.”

131402 Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 2, #318 of 1090 🔗

If you get a second check out our podcast ‘The Real Normal’

IT MIGHT KEEP YOU SANE!

Please also leave a review on itunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

It will help us to spread this even further!

👉 https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/ 👈

THANKS FOR YOUR REVIEWS SO FAR!

131628 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, #319 of 1090 🔗

Just listened to episode 5, thanks for that.

131409 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 15, #320 of 1090 🔗

My response to that imbecilic comparison about masks being like wearing trousers stopping you pissing on each other is simple:-

  • I don’t urinate on other people, just like I don’t cough in other peoples faces.
  • When I’ve urinated in my trousers I don’t then get urine on my hands by constantly fiddling with them, pulling them down to my knees when I leave a shop, taking them off in the car, and then wearing them again unwashed the next day and probably the whole week.
  • This seems a sure-fire way to give yourself a urine infection.

The irony is that for the trouser system to be effective it would mean discarding the trousers, washing your hands and putting a fresh pair on each time you urinate in them which is virtually identical to the old advice…Catch it, bin it, kill it. No masks required.

131441 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Achilles, 6, #321 of 1090 🔗

Last week I passed a woman wearing a mask which she pulled down, sneezed and pulled it back up again!

131502 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Achilles, 2, #322 of 1090 🔗

But also think about a society that pissed in their trousers. You’d soon invent a nappy for it. Or exercises to avoid it. Walking around in your own piss can burn the skin. Then there’s the smell and infections. Hmm lovely.

Some people don’t think things through.

131632 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Achilles, 4, #323 of 1090 🔗

If the government was really serious about our health we would all be back to normal and they would reinstate those “Catch it, bin it, kill it” adverts. I always tell people that tissues are always more effective than masks and washing hands with soap and water always trumps hand sanitisers.

131413 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #324 of 1090 🔗

A colleague recently emailed the car-sharing guidelines; I’ve never read them. They are already sowing division in our small group of “friends”…
Private cars and other vehiclesPlan your journeyPlan your route, including any breaks, before setting out. Routes may be different as local areas make changes to enable social distancing.
Check that your vehicle is safe and roadworthy if you haven’t used it for several weeks.
People from a household or support bubble can travel together in a vehicle.
You should wear a face covering in an enclosed space where social distancing isn’t possible and where you will come into contact with people outside your household or support bubble. Take care to use face coverings properly .
Consider making a list of items to take with you .
Car sharingYou should try not to share a vehicle with those outside your household or support bubble. If you need to do this, try to:

  • share the transport with the same people each time
  • keep to small groups of up to 6 people at any one time
  • open windows for ventilation
  • travel side by side or behind other people, rather than facing them, where seating arrangements allow
  • face away from each other
  • consider seating arrangements to maximise distance between people in the vehicle
  • clean your car between journeys using standard cleaning products – make sure you clean door handles and other areas that people may touch
  • ask the driver and passengers to wear a face covering

On your journeyExpect more pedestrians and cyclists, especially at peak times of day. Where possible, allow other road users to maintain social distancing . For example, give cyclists space at traffic lights.
Limit the time you spend at garages, petrol stations and motorway services. Try to keep your distance from other people and if possible pay by contactless.
Wash your hands for at least 20 seconds or sanitise your hands often, and always when exiting or re-entering your vehicle.
Completing your journeyWhen finishing your journey wash your hands for at least 20 seconds or sanitise your hands as soon as possible

131454 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to thedarkhorse, 5, #325 of 1090 🔗

Ummm I generally give cyclists room anyway? What on earth has giving cyclists room got to do with social distancing and covid-19? I’m in a metal box all enclosed for a start plus I personally don’t see a cyclist and think “Ooo I must knock them off their bike”.

That has to be the most bizarre piece of written “advice” I’ve ever seen.

131757 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to ambwozere, 1, #326 of 1090 🔗

They mean to leave space so the 2 or 3 cyclists can keep distance between each other whilst stationary at a red traffic light.
Any decent cyclist is wearing a mask already to avoid the car fumes and many ignore red lights. Well, I guess they have to come up with something.
I recently had to do a covid safe new ways to work interactive training video, which was done months ago and a lot does not apply anymore, I felt truly sorry for the person who had to put this together, they must have gotten drunk later to forget to have to do this job or get paid very well.

131471 ▶▶ Liam, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #327 of 1090 🔗

Somebody probably spent hours working on that. Well, I say “working.”

131474 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #328 of 1090 🔗

Perhaps Peter Kay could bring back his ‘Car Share’ sitcom to reflect the bonkers times we are now living in.

131424 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 48, #329 of 1090 🔗

My elderly (87, but fit and active) neighbour has contracted a bad cold (Hoarse voice, runny nose, head ache, tiredness). A couple of days and he’s now on the mend. ‘I don’t know how I’ve got this cold’ he said, ‘I don’t come into contact with many people and I wear a mask when I go shopping’.

Prompted by Mrs Hopkins I asked him about his mask: ‘How often do you change it?’. ‘Never’ was his response, ‘I keep it in my back pocket and only put it on when I have to’.

After a short lecture by my good self explaining that he may well have caught his ‘cold’ from the build up of pathogens, germs and general muck congregating in his mask he declared, with no prompting from me whatsoever; ‘I’m not going to wear a mask again, I’ll just tell them that for the good of my health I’m not going to’. ‘It’s called an exemption’ I replied. ‘If you decide not to wear a mask and you are challenged, simply say ‘I have an exemption’. ‘I will, I hate wearing those things anyway’ was his response.

I think my neighbour will stick true to his word, He’s not the kind to say stuff he doesn’t mean and he certainly doesn’t suffer fools gladly. Another non mask wearing convert on the way to normality and as the Chinese proverb says: ‘Every great journey begins with a single step’.

131434 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Harry hopkins, 15, #330 of 1090 🔗

Well done for spreading the Gospel of Lockdown Scepticism and the Book of the Dangers of the Mask Wearing!

131445 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #331 of 1090 🔗

Come to think of it, I may just get him one of those ‘exemption cards’ that he can carry in his ‘back pocket’ (instead of his scruffy mask), although knowing my neighbour as I do, once he makes up his mind he won’t need anything to back it up!

131633 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #332 of 1090 🔗

Good idea. I always carry a back up exemption card which I can give to someone if they need it.

131463 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Harry hopkins, 12, #333 of 1090 🔗

People pick up respiratory tract infections (i.e. coughs and colds, sounds a bit less scary) after months in isolation at Antarctic research stations. Viruses are present in our bodies at all times, they attack when we’re weak or stressed.

131473 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #334 of 1090 🔗

Turn one person at a time that’s all we can do.

131566 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #335 of 1090 🔗

If you use a cloth face covering, say a scarf, bandanna etc, , put it on while in shop for say 1 hour, remove and stuff in back pocket, take it out when home and hang on back of door, it dries out, ( if it got damp), and don’t reuse it for a week – are there likely to be many germs left on it? Genuine enquiry, as read some time back that virus didn’t survive more than c. 3 hours on soft surface, contrary to what we’d been told?

131610 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Bruno, 1, #336 of 1090 🔗

That’s true, but it’s even better if you don’t wear one at all!

131762 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Bruno, 2, #337 of 1090 🔗

Make sure it gets hit by sunshine, UV rays will kill viruses.

132114 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 1, #338 of 1090 🔗

Yes it would probably be fine. But it’s not just viruses of course. If it’s going mouldy or smells bad etc then better to wash it!

131430 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 8, #339 of 1090 🔗

As the level of insanity ratchets up on an almost daily basis, I am constantly required to re-calibrate my personal insanity-o-meter. Yesterday, I went into full overload and have had to fully reboot. This is what caused it:

On NewstalkFM yesterday (an Irish commercial news radio station with national reach) Professor Luke O’neill was interviewed on the Pat Kenny show. Professor O’Neill is a Trinity College Dublin biochemist.

In 2018 Professor O’Neill, co- founded a private biotech firm called Sitryx and raised $30 million Series A funding from an international syndicate of specialist investors including SV Health Investors, Sofinnova Partners, Longwood Fund and GSK. In 2020 Sitryx formed an exclusive global licensing and research collaboration with Eli Lilly and Company. Lilly also became an investor in the company.

O’Neill is a regular on Irish TV and radio and is a strong advocate of face mask wearing (having previously  said they were “pointless” if not “dangerous”) and the push towards a COVID-19 vaccine. His business interests are never mentioned for some reason.

According to his latest book (more later) he is “Irelands Favourite Scientist”.  This is what he actually said (reported in https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-o-neill-mask-hypothesis-immunity-1075750 ):

–          “We know masks work – the scientific evidence is so compelling now. Anybody who denies masks… show me the scientific evidence against it, because the evidence on the other side is so strong”
–         “You might wonder how the hell can a mask make someone immune. Masks aren’t perfect… so tiny bits of virus get out, and sadly infect someone else.”
–         “But guess what: they have a very mild infection, almost with no symptoms… they don’t even know they have it… and now they might be protected”
–         Professor O’Neill said the idea is ‘a bit like’ how a vaccine works, where people are exposed to a weaker version of the virus so their immune system learns to fight against it.
–         He said: “There’s some evidence to support this. There was an Argentinian cruise ship, and they put masks on people because there was an infection. Of those who did get infected, 80% were asymptomatic.
–         “Anybody who says ‘don’t wear a mask’… tell them this evidence.”
–         He pointed to a recent study involving hamsters, where a mask was put in the middle of a cage. He explained: “The ones on the far side didn’t really get infected if there was a mask between them. There was a very low infection. If they did get infected, it was asymptomatic. That’s animal, not humans obviously – but it’s still good evidence. It’s almost as if a tiny bit of virus is quite good, because it might provoke no symptoms and a bit of immunity.”

Well there we have it. I’m not a scientist so I cannot confirm whether this is total bollocks or not. But O’Neill has a book coming out shortly with the bizarre title of “Never Mind The Bollocks – Here’s The Science” – this is complete with design and logos as per the Sex Pistol’s album (copyright issue?). Part of the overview reads “Never Mind the B#ll*ocks is a celebration of science and hard facts in a time of fake news and sometimes unhelpful groupthink”. That’s ok then – I just wonder whether the words in the title are in the wrong order.

What chance do us sceptics have with people like this around?

131431 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to godowneasy, 9, #340 of 1090 🔗

It’s bollocks. I can’t find evidence masks work and I’ve spent months looking. There is anecdotal but nothing else.

Where is it? Where are they looking?

Glad someone has mentioned the study involving hamsters on somewhere except here – shows how bonkers they all are if they think it proves anything.

131456 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #341 of 1090 🔗

A Professor Chagpor (sp?) Is heard in a UK msm clip saying “masks stop 80% of the virus from spreading”.

The clip is here at approx 25min30sec
https://youtu.be/dXWKZaEA22g

Utter bollocks clearly but that is a figure so it must have a study..?

131460 ▶▶▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to Basics, 5, #342 of 1090 🔗

I think this is a prime example of the “stop 80% of droplets” therefore “stop 80% of the spread” fallacy.

I have been utterly astounded at some of the elementary failures of basic scientific method that have been on display…

131469 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Stuart Barker, 1, #343 of 1090 🔗

Spot on.

DavidC

131640 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #344 of 1090 🔗

I am finding the same thing. There are RCTs to show that masks aren’t effective and links provided. The evidence that masks work is bandied about, but I have never seen anyone post a link (except the hamster trial) – they just keep repeating that the evidence is now strong.

131436 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to godowneasy, 5, #345 of 1090 🔗

Only people he follows or mentions can comment on his twitter posts! There is someone not confident in his assertions I would suggest.

131440 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to godowneasy, 5, #346 of 1090 🔗

The hamster study is mentioned in the Royal Society’s DELVE report. here’s something I sent earlier to a trade body advocating masks at all times when travelling for tourism:

The Royal Society DELVE report that the UK Government has used to justify face covering legislation is not what it seems. They claim that it says it’s been proven that masks are effective in cutting transmission risk of coronavirus this report has been widely touted in the MSM when in fact the report shows nothing like this conclusion:

They quote 1 study that involved a masked hamster as proof masks work in reducing virus transmission.

How do you mask a hamster? I have no idea.

This is their “facemarks study report”:

https://rs-delve.github.io/addenda/2020/07/07/masks-update.html

They are a data analytical group so no need for medical people, just data analysis.

Few gems from the “report/study” if you can call it that”

  • A series of controlled experiments in a hamster SARS-CoV2 transmission model and “the index animal was “masked”
  • the majority of SARS-CoV2 infected individuals remain asymptomatic throughout infection.
  • There are no human controlled trials on the efficacy of universal mask use in stemming SARS-CoV2 transmission.
  • However, the conclusions of this study are not supported by the presented evidence , as summarized by a number of scientists requesting a retraction by the authors.
  • This report “is not peer reviewed”.

It was also written by the Royal Society’s president’s daughter.

The Royal Society os bankrolled by the Wellcome Trust and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

Never mentioned that did he in the interview?

131449 ▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #347 of 1090 🔗

If I recall correctly, in that study they masked the cage where the hamster was, rather than the hamster itself, because that would be hard to do.

131468 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to jrsm, 4, #348 of 1090 🔗

That’s the one put you only find that out fi you read the complete report with links, not the summary that was bandied about.

So really he’s still talking crap as the hamster experiment doesn’t mimic or supply real life results.

I’ve been wondering for weeks if masks work on hamsters, maybe a business opportunity to make some money supplying covid face protection for pets – only drawback was I couldn’t figure out how to mask a little rodent.

131455 ▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to godowneasy, 10, #349 of 1090 🔗

I think the problem is that much of the evidence that mask advocates rely on doesn’t translate well to the real world.

Pretty much all the research (limited though it is) that has been carried out into real world observations has failed to find any link between mask wearing and reduced transmission of respiratory infection.

But you can do laboratory experiments to demonstrate the physical properties of face coverings and conclude that they do indeed filter out x% of particles of various sizes.

The question therefore is why does the latter nor translate into evidence in the former research and I have a hunch there are 3 main reasons:

  • people don’t live, interact and catch respiratory infections in laboratory conditions, they do so in the real world so the laboratory model is already poor
  • the lab experiments often focus on the direction and distance of droplet spread directly forward from the mouth and nose; again this is a poor model of real world scenarios, but also it ignores the problem that if aerosol (as opposed to droplets) is a prime cause of transmission then they stay in the air for prolonged periods of time and distance & direction are less relevant
  • masks are mandated, and people tend to wear them even when not mandated, in circumstances where they are not typically catching respiratory infections ie in public places involving transient contact with others; most infections are caught at home or in circumstances where you are in close contact with others in an enclosed space for prolonged periods of time

None of that says they aren’t effective at all but the reality is the effect does seem to be at best marginal.

I think we have an egregious case of the precautionary principle driving this. As many logicians and philosophers would opine, it is always a risky principle. In particular, it has driven me hopping mad in this case that there seems to be an assumption that face coverings are somehow cost-free when they manifestly are not – they have economic, social, developmental, health etc costs that are simply not being taken into account.

131467 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Stuart Barker, 5, #350 of 1090 🔗

Excellent comment, thank you. My view is that it’s pointless looking for any logic or science behind any of the restrictions because they have been abandoned by those notionally in charge. Therefore, you have to likely to the wider agenda.

131715 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Stuart Barker, 1, #351 of 1090 🔗

Utterly mind boggling to see people wearing them outdoors, but I recently found one chucked away on our local Birkdale Sandhills, where ,indeed fresh air is all around..and much of it.

132054 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Stuart Barker, #352 of 1090 🔗

And, of course, flu is currently killing 10x (I think) more people than Wuflu. Masks are excellent, are they not, at preventing the spread of viruses?!?!

131466 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to godowneasy, 2, #353 of 1090 🔗

Note the link to vaccines and SV Health Investors:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05235343/officers

The first name rings a bell!

131477 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to godowneasy, 2, #354 of 1090 🔗

The entire argument suffers from a fallacy of composition. Where’s the massive deflection in the aggregate data showing masks doing some good? There must be one or it is just hygiene theatre.

What they are doing is looking at the current situation and saying “it must be the masks that do that because I believe in it really strongly”. The masks must be stopping deaths and they must be stopping cases.

Then you say “Sweden” and they go all quiet.

131532 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #355 of 1090 🔗

Indeed.

Many advocates for hiding your face point to Asia as cuktuak mask wearers and how well they’ve controlled the virus. They can even produce some graphs of Covid-19 and mask wearing in some counties which look impressive.

Unfortunately they are using 6 months of data only and fail to see that despite cultural mask wearing these counties experience huge influenza outbreaks all the time. And have done for a lot longer than 6 months so your data set is thankfully a little more useful.

The masks wearing is a classic case of starting with an answer and walking back to find any shred of evidence which supports it.

131479 ▶▶ Henry, replying to godowneasy, 2, #356 of 1090 🔗

Is there an element of good news about this that, if the science becomes more conclusive (a very big if), then wearing a mask protects the user as opposed to current nonsensical trite that they protect everyone else. Would there be an argument that people will be able to make their own decision as what level of risk they want to subject themselves to? Or am I still on another planet?

131498 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Henry, 1, #357 of 1090 🔗

No – same planet, different world unfortunately.

131540 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Henry, 1, #358 of 1090 🔗

They’d still turn it round on you and say you are fattening the curve right?

131491 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to godowneasy, 2, #359 of 1090 🔗

Thought I’d be an awkward git and sent Pat Kenny the highlights of the report that Dr O’Neill forgot to mention.

If he replies I’ll post it.

131507 ▶▶ TJN, replying to godowneasy, 12, #360 of 1090 🔗

Couple of comments on this.

First, as Henry (and maybe others by now) have pointed out, if the muzzle protects the user then it clearly becomes user choice as to whether to use one – no room for emotional blackmail here; and no justification for mandation.

Second, the hypothesis concerning a low viral load means ‘people are exposed to a weaker version of the virus so their immune system learns to fight against it’.

Months ago now, probably in May, it occurred to Mrs TJN and I, just from looking at the data, that far from having any beneficial effect lockdowns were actually making covid worse. That was a highly controversial proposition at the time, and we couldn’t immediately think of a mechanism. Then an idea occurred to me, which I posted on one of Dr Lee’s Spectator articles.

In non-lockdown, where the virus is spread on public transport, door handles, surfaces, crowded streets, and so on, a great many people become infected by picking up low viral loads.

A high initial viral load appears to have a high correlation with the subsequent severity of the disease. Thus if lots of people pick up the virus though low viral loads then presumably they will gain immunity at a cheap price. Hence the best way to achieve herd immunity.

In contrast, in lockdown conditions the virus is spread within households more, with the consequential high viral load, and thus more serious illness.

Hence, through the ensuring of high viral loads, did not universal lockdown make the situation far worse than it might otherwise have been?

131524 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to TJN, 2, #361 of 1090 🔗

Excellent point. Well reasoned.

This is what I’ve seen on a good few occasions now where a less than solid argument is put forward to justify some measure or why we need to do this or that.

Yet, because its based on faulty logic, and often designed, it seems to me, to exert power and control for alterior motives, it falls over as soon as that logic is extended to other areas at all.

Painting themselves into a corner.

131624 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to TJN, 4, #362 of 1090 🔗

Think your theory could be right. I’ve thought for a while now that it’s best for people to inhale low loads eg while out shopping.

131925 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to TJN, 3, #363 of 1090 🔗

Low viral load exposure has been my strategy for a while. At first, when I was sucked in by it all, I avoided touching the handholds on buses. Once I realised that a low dose could be good for my immune system, I went back to grabbing them, hoping for a quick top-up.

Our local buses now have hand sanitiser dispensers at the front, which, of course, I don’t use. Actually, other people using the nasty stuff triggers my asthma, which is a different story.

131970 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #364 of 1090 🔗

It’s amazing that people like us can work this out, but not experts in the field. Except when it suits their purposes of course – as in the muzzle theory at the head of this thread.

131511 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to godowneasy, 3, #365 of 1090 🔗

Also, if 80% of droplets are stopped, that makes for a really nasty build up of fully loaded virus behind the wearers mask surely? Would rebreathing that not cause serious issues?

131570 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 5, #366 of 1090 🔗

And surely dropping it in the street cannot be good as witnessed by counting at least a dozen during my 20 minute lunchtime stroll on which I also witnessed a couple dressing each other ensuring their matching masks were correctly fitted, very sweet.

If there was a major life threatening disease on the loose and masks did work HMG would be supplying them free of charge not brainwashing the population into wearing them.

131593 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Sarigan, 5, #367 of 1090 🔗

That’s why they’re called ‘germ rebreathers’.

A good way of making a mild respiratory infection far worse, and driving it deeper into the lungs.

131521 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, #368 of 1090 🔗

In the meantime the Irish Gov have unveiled their cunning plan “Living with COVID 19”. It has five levels, with one being the least restrictive (though still with face masks and distancing rules). Each level has a detailed list of rules / requirements. The whole country is currently on level 2 though Dublin has tighter restrictions due to higher “cases” (e.g. the pubs will remain closed unless they serve a 9 euro meal). So level 2.5 then?

The criteria for each level are described in terms such as “low levels”,”stable”, “increasing”, “decreasing” etc. There are no measurable criteria included so I suppose they will make that up as they go along. Levels 2, 3 and 4 have exactly the same criteria but very different rules ?!?! The plan lasts for 6-9 months. It appears that the only exit strategy is a vaccine.

I’m not making this up – check it out here if you have the energy:
https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/resilience-recovery-2020-2021-plan-for-living-with-covid-19/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/en/publication/acc4de-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-10-august-phase-4/

131642 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to godowneasy, #369 of 1090 🔗

Nothing lower than level 1 which is still hugely limiting so yes, all points to zero covid policy or vaccine as the only route out.

131595 ▶▶ Mark, replying to godowneasy, #370 of 1090 🔗

There’s some evidence to support this. There was an Argentinian cruise ship, and they put masks on people because there was an infection. Of those who did get infected, 80% were asymptomatic.

I seem to recall that ~80% asymptomatic was the early estimate for the overall prevalence of the disease, wasn’t it? Dd that change?

131442 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #371 of 1090 🔗

The Richie Allen Radio Show.

Last night. Starting at about 10 mins in looks at an radio by presenter Andrew Castle. Firstly Andrew declares himself overjoyed the oxford az trial is restarted then Andrew takes a phone in.

https://youtu.be/dXWKZaEA22g

Outstanding from Rishie Allen.

131496 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Basics, 1, #372 of 1090 🔗

It was good that.

131497 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #373 of 1090 🔗

Yeah, caught the 2nd half last night and the podcast today. What an awful human being castle is, how these people sleep at night is beyond me but I suppose they are happy to suck on the tit of MSM as it pays well and they are not scrutinised.

131504 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to stefarm, 1, #374 of 1090 🔗

I agree. And he has a platform like no other but with zero research. He sits there and says he will dance in teh Street when as vaccine arrives but has no idea why.

131503 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 1, #375 of 1090 🔗

The words from the ICL Professor supporting Castle were totally scripted. Been trotted out word for word almost across a number of news outlets today.

131815 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #376 of 1090 🔗

Thats right. The second only to water for public health has obviously been briefed into the PharmaPawns – experts.

Which shows it is a conspiracy or collusion or collaboration I am not sure which.

131450 DavidC, 4, #377 of 1090 🔗

Not sure if anyone else has posted this yet but the latest ONS figures released today show a week 36 (to 4th September) number of deaths at 7,739 against a five year average for the same week of 9,182. Wow! And the Covid-19 figures keep falling!

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

DavidC

131451 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #378 of 1090 🔗

My local fishing tackle shop owner put this madness into context, he said wearing face nappies and social distancing doesn’t apply if you are close to one of those,pointing to his cash till.

131931 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fingerache Philip., #379 of 1090 🔗

The virus is afraid of money.

131462 MarieM, replying to MarieM, 6, #380 of 1090 🔗

Flu Vaccination – I, and I am sure lots of people have been sent a letter about having a flu vaccination from their local health centres. The letter says “You are being invited to attend for your annual flu vaccination. etc. It implys there is no choice. This is something I am not going to do as I have heard and done some research into all the side effects but what intrigued me was the following – “Please ensure you wear a mask or face covering for your appointment – this really helps us stop transmission of the virus”.

Its well known that masks (face nappies) cannot stop transmission of viruses because viruses are too small so they can go straight through or congregate on the mask. I am surprised that the National Health Service believes this when it is so wrong.

I really hope they do not make vaccinations mandatory!

131490 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to MarieM, 7, #381 of 1090 🔗

My mum had that letter from our Dr’s as she’s over 70 so eligible for a free jab. She put it in the bin as she always does. Not heard anything more from them.

131598 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to ambwozere, 1, #382 of 1090 🔗

I was “offered” the vaccination but the look on my face caused her to immediately put a note on my record saying “no vaccinations”.

131530 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to MarieM, 1, #383 of 1090 🔗

Does the Flu Shot Increase COVID-19 Risk (YES!) and Other Interesting Questions

https://doctormurray.com/does-the-flu-shot-increase-covid-19-risk/

Work on improving your immune system. If you do not spend sufficient time outside with exposed skin, take a vitamin D3 supplement of at least 10,000IU per day plus vitamin K2 and Magnesium (they all work together). Yes 10,000IU is much higher than the RDA that only prevents rickets. If you spend time in the sun with exposed skin then your body can produce up to 20,000IU vitamin D a day.

It is advisable to get a Vitamin D3 test done (via your GP who is interested in improving your health/immune system) and this will give you a baseline on how high the dose should be. Doctors normally prescribe Vitamin D2 (synthetic and not well absorbed) and sometimes one massive dose per week – not advisable. Vitamin D3 supplements are very affordable and should be taken every day

131541 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Victoria, 4, #384 of 1090 🔗

10 mins in the sun each day.

Fruit and veg.

Lots of exercise.

Don’t smoke.

Drink within the recommended limits.

Laugh more.

131828 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #385 of 1090 🔗

Last one is a bit tricky

131601 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Victoria, 2, #386 of 1090 🔗

Perfect advice; 10000iu vitamin D3, 2 grams vitamin C, 50-200 mg zinc. You will effectively be immune from all viral diseases. Definitely a good idea to add vitamin K2Mk7 and magnesium.

131908 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RichardJames, #387 of 1090 🔗

I’m taking that amount of vitamin D K2, but only 15mg of Zinc do you think i should take more?

131556 ▶▶ D B, replying to MarieM, 7, #388 of 1090 🔗

The irony of asking you to wear a mask to stop transmission of a virus, whilst injecting you with a bit of a virus is not lost on me.

131618 ▶▶ Julian, replying to MarieM, #389 of 1090 🔗

“I am surprised that the National Health Service believes this when it is so wrong.”

They are just following orders. It is political theatre.

“I really hope they do not make vaccinations mandatory!”

My MP refused to rule out voting for such a measure, when I wrote to her. What does yours think?

132450 ▶▶▶ MarieM, replying to Julian, #390 of 1090 🔗

We wrote to our MP a while ago before masks “came in” but never had a reply! So we do not know his thoughts on the matter of masks or vaccinations. He will be written to again – so lets see…..

131653 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to MarieM, 7, #391 of 1090 🔗

This is what you wear when working with nasties in lab conditions. Sort of underlines the uselessness of face rags.

131730 ▶▶ Phoneutria, replying to MarieM, #392 of 1090 🔗

I’m having a flu vaccine because they have proved to work. If I get invited to have a Covid -19 vaccine (not that it will happen soon) I’ll say no. Don’t need it heard immunity works.

131822 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Phoneutria, #393 of 1090 🔗

https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/3021/smpc/print#gref
Is this what some have called the ‘hazard sheet’ for this year’s flu cocktail? I’ve had it a couple of random times before travelling abroad in winter, not consistently though. Never been given any information about it, eg which strains selected for the year, by GPs? Are they supposed to?

131786 ▶▶ fiery, replying to MarieM, 2, #394 of 1090 🔗

I always refused the flu vaccine even when I worked in the NHS. Having said that I’ve also opted out if any of the health screening GPs try to coerce you into having simply so they get paid for meeting targets. Most of the tests generate huge amounts if false positives and cause further anxiety because of the multiple investigations you then end up having. I’m actually seriously considering opting out of being registered with a GP to avoid further shenanigans once a a Corvid 19 vaccine becomes available.

131935 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to fiery, #395 of 1090 🔗

So it is possible to opt out of being registered? I am registered locally now, but I definitely don’t want to be on their radar. I also reject all screening tests since I realised that they’re largely for show. Health theatre.

132082 ▶▶▶▶ fiery, replying to ConstantBees, #396 of 1090 🔗

I’m looking into whether you can opt out of being registered with a GP. I once accidentally got my name removed from the practice I was registered with by returning one of the health screening invitation letters with No Longer At This Address on the envelope. Didn’t realise until I went to make an appointment some 12 months later. Legally I don’t think anyone can be forced to register with a GP although if you have health issues or are on prescription drugs you don’t have any choice.

131465 mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #397 of 1090 🔗

See how much the BBC “talent” get paid for following government dictats and lying to you

131475 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #398 of 1090 🔗

and if you want to see how much management get paid see here

131478 ▶▶ FenTyger, replying to mjr, 2, #399 of 1090 🔗

Did not renew licence at end of August and do not miss it at all.

131493 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to FenTyger, 1, #400 of 1090 🔗

Thinking of doing the same can you remind me of what I can watch? Can I also listen to radio?

131586 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 5, #401 of 1090 🔗

You can’t watch live TV or the BBC or BBC iplayer (no loss). You can watch the other channels on catch-up and you can listen to the radio.

I recommend ditching your licence (I did) – you will feel better and be > £150 better off each year! Plus, there’s the added satisfaction knowing you are depriving the BBC of a bit more cash.

131656 ▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to kh1485, 2, #402 of 1090 🔗

You can also watch DVD/BlueRay recordings and streamed content via Prime, Netflix etc. I am not sure about live streams, I think those might require a licence.

131663 ▶▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to stefarm, #403 of 1090 🔗

The TV Licence Resistance Forums are a good resource in respect of going legally licence free

https://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/

131904 ▶▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to stefarm, 1, #404 of 1090 🔗

Hi, No live TV at all. Use catch up services for all but the BBC (You can’t use iPlayer to watch TV)
However according to TV licensing “No, you do not need a TV Licence to listen to the radio (including on BBC iPlayer).”
Not missed BBC at all, all other channels that I want so far are available as “catch up”. Found some interesting stuff elsewhere on the Net and already had Amazon Prime (Fire TV).

131608 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to mjr, 3, #405 of 1090 🔗

Ditched my license in April. I’m not paying for propaganda being piped into my home.

131476 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #406 of 1090 🔗

Maybe of interest to readers here:

House of Commons

Science and Technology Committee

IMMEDIATE RELEASE—15 SEPTEMBER 2020

Evidence Session Thursday 17 September at 2.30pm

This session will be available to watch on parliamentlive.tv

On Thursday 17 September , the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee is to revisit its scrutiny of coronavirus testing and contact tracing as part its inquiry into UK Science, Research and Technology Capability and Influence in Global Disease Outbreaks . The session will focus on:

the effectiveness of the NHS Test and Trace programme;

the progress made in developing digital contact tracing solutions; and

possible strategies to prepare for the winter months.

The witnesses for the session are as follows:

Panel one (at 2.30pm)

Professor Carl Heneghan , Professor of Evidence-Based Medicine & Director, Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, University of Oxford

Professor Sylvia Richardson CBE , Director, MRC Biostatistics Unit, Cambridge Institute of Public Health, University of Cambridge

Dr Thomas Waite , Director of Health Protection, Joint Biosecurity Centre

Panel two (at approx. 3.15pm)

Baroness Dido Harding, Interim Executive Chair, National Institute for Health Protection

Simon Thompson, Managing Director of the NHS COVID-19 App, NHS Test and Trace

Dr Susan Hopkins , Chief Medical Advisor, NHS Test and Trace

Panel three (at approx. 4.15pm)

Lord Bethell of Romford, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care

Further Information: https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/135/science-and-technology-committee-commons

Follow us on Twitter: @CommonsSTC

Committee Membership: http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/science-and-technology-committee/membership/

Specific Committee information: scitechcom@parliament.uk / 020 7219 2793

Media Information: Emily Pritchard pritcharde@parliament.uk / 07734 974 282

131535 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #407 of 1090 🔗

Heneghan mentioned on ITV news last night with the quote from the presenter “Heneghan asks for these science as there is none” or words to that effect.

Now he’s on a Select Committee panel.

maybe the tide has gone slack and is getting ready tot urn.

131649 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, #408 of 1090 🔗

Well on the turn! lol

131825 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Richard Pinch, #409 of 1090 🔗

Straight in the diary, wondered when they would resume, thanks.

131480 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 12, #410 of 1090 🔗

Wow.

“Andrew Selous (Con) asks if the UK can learn from what happened in Sweden.

Hancock says he has looked closely at Sweden. He says in Sweden people followed social distancing guidance more closely than in many other places, even though the rules did not require that.”

So Hancock is suggesting that the UK population CANNOT be trusted!!

Wow…

131510 ▶▶ Will, replying to hotrod, 3, #411 of 1090 🔗

The man couldn’t lie straight in bed.

131520 ▶▶ Julian, replying to hotrod, 10, #412 of 1090 🔗

What he says may or may not be true, but as far as I know the Swedes did not force businesses to close (other than I suppose ones that rely on very large gatherings – they are going up from 50 to 500 soon).

And they did not mandate masks, or close primary schools (I think secondary schools may have closed for a while, not sure about Unis)

Anyway, if he can’t see the value of letting people determine how to behave for themselves he has no business being in democratic politics or pretending to be a Conservative

131647 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hotrod, #413 of 1090 🔗

I think Whitty suggested that the social distancing was beginning to have an effect before lockdown.

131775 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to hotrod, #414 of 1090 🔗

How does he know that? Has he spent several weeks in Sweden watching people?
That man cannot string the simplest sentence together.

131485 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #415 of 1090 🔗

Hi all

Does anyone here work in the area of “whistleblowing”? You know, official, serious whistleblowing and all the official processes and protections that gives people confidence to come forward.

Thanks

131536 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Lockdown Truth, #416 of 1090 🔗

Is that whistleblowing for Civil Servants? Maybe try this:

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing

Or look at the pdf (from 2014) you get if you google: Whistleblowing and Raising a concern Procedure for Civil Servants

131807 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, #417 of 1090 🔗

Uk column might help with advice if i understand your situation.

131949 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Lockdown Truth, #418 of 1090 🔗

Contact Simon Dolan at Keep Britain Free.

131494 Norma McNormalface, replying to Norma McNormalface, 39, #419 of 1090 🔗

I’ve written to my MP, I’ve exempted myself from wearing a mask, I’ve stopped clicking around the news websites and reading comments, I’ve boycotted Twitter, youtube and now the Co-op (for having in-your-face, eye level, close-up, i-pad screens saying “Recording” with a movie of yourself while you’re scanning your groceries at the self-checkout), and I’ve attempted to (and failed) to convert Covie zealots. I think I’m at the point where all I can do is take a step back, get on with my life, and watch from a safe distance as governments around the world dig deeper and deeper into the massive pile of horse sh*t they have created. Otherwise I’m just another victim.

131514 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Norma McNormalface, 12, #420 of 1090 🔗

You have done well. Keep it up.

I have dumped Waitrose for having over zealous door guards working on behalf of the Government to enforce masks. Moved to Ocado (now providing M&S products, no longer Waitrose products) and what a pleasure. Still frequent Morissons (no mask enforcement) for a few small things.

131515 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Norma McNormalface, 11, #421 of 1090 🔗

Look after yourself above all else – we are all needed in top shape for the long haul

131950 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Norma McNormalface, 4, #422 of 1090 🔗

Completely right, Norma. I’m converting masked sheeple by letting them know about the exemptions (most people have no idea they exist) but it’s a slow process.

132036 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Norma McNormalface, 2, #423 of 1090 🔗

I noticed those recording screens at the Coop – really disconcerting. Another reason not to go there.

131495 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #424 of 1090 🔗

Bureaucrats ‘deny the evidence, Hydroxychloroquine reduces COVID death by 73 per cent’: Craig Kelly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVD76yu0Vc

Sky News Australia

Liberal MP Craig Kelly says studies have shown a 73 per cent reduction rate in mortality where Hydroxychloroquine was dispensed to COVID infected patients, yet Australian health bureaucrats continue to deny the evidence. Mr Kelly said on Thursday an Italian peer-reviewed study showed a 73 per cent reduction of mortality where Hydroxychloroquine was administered.

A further study from Saudi Arabia produced the same figure – Hydroxychloroquine caused a 73 per cent reduction in death from COVID. He told Sky News host Alan Jones early in the coronavirus pandemic period, doctors were free to prescribe Hydroxychloroquine to patients for off label use. “It’s a drug that is lawful for doctors to use,” Mr Kelly said. “We’ve got health bureaucrats in this country who think they know better than thousands upon thousands of doctors all around the world, and have banned this.”

He said despite studies showing incredible results from this previously legal drug, the Queensland chief health officer “has not only (made) it illegal, but put a six months criminal penalty if a doctor prescribes it or if a chemist would dispense it to a Queenslander”. “We’re talking about people’s lives here … a 73 per cent reduction, and we’re getting study after study after study after study, all showing the same result, but we’ve got our health bureaucrats digging in because they’re afraid to say ‘hang on a minute, we’ve made a mistake’. “They deny the evidence that continues to roll in day after day.”

131513 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #425 of 1090 🔗

Some people actually have to go to jail over this.

131835 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #426 of 1090 🔗

Wrote a reply email to my mp today saying that Bozo, Wancock and Shithouse should be up for murder after this is all over. Not in those words obviously.

131499 John P, replying to John P, 6, #427 of 1090 🔗

The anti-lockdown movement seems to be divided here between those who believe the government is an incompetent rabble who don’t really have a clue what they are doing and those that think that they are a very competent and intelligent group of people hell bent on the creation of a new world order.

I belong to the former group.

Those that believe the latter seem to base it on the notion that governments couldn’t be so stupid as to now know what they are doing. After all, many of them have degrees. Some of them even have degrees in economics.

Actually, many of them have legal qualifications, as the making of laws is one of the primary functions of parliament. (They are supposed to discuss these matters at length first though.)

Toby Young has recently posted somewhere a discussion regarding the subject of intelligence. His late father, a socialist had different views on the subject to Toby, a conservative. Now I’ve only had time to listen to half of this, but nowhere in the discussion was there any mention of what intelligence actually is.

How do you define “intelligence”?

Do you define intelligence by IQ tests? They may measure a certain type of intelligence, but, for example, I’m not sure that musical or artistic ability are well represented by these tests.

Perhaps you might define intelligence as the ability to pass exams. (I must be rather intelligent on that basis), but is that a good measure? Maybe you were ill on the day of the exam, but sat it anyway? Maybe the marker was a light touch and gave everyone good grades?

And does quantity trump quality? Does having nine “C”s make you more intelligent than someone with 5 “A”s?

You might be great at English, but poor at Maths. Which is the more important measure of intelligence? Mathematical ability or linguistic ability?

It’s not as easy and straightforward as it is often made out to be.

Perhaps you might want to define intelligence (if you are a woman) as the ability to be a good mother? Perhaps if you are a man you might define intelligence as the ability to “pull” women. It’s something many men wish they were better at. (Myself included). But there is no exam for that. I once had a friend who was shorter and uglier than I am. But he was great at seducing women. I was (and remain) fairly useless at it. (My father once remarked that women are “funny creatures”. I tend to share that opinion.)

So an experienced biochemist might not necessarily be more intelligent than an inexperienced biochemist. But they would probably be better at their job.

It is my personal view that a great deal of what passes for innate intelligence is actually learned. But how you can measure how much is innate and how much is learned? That is not easy to say!

The democratic system doesn’t select people for their ability to make good laws and to exercise common sense in policy making. It selects those who, like Boris Johnson, are good self publicists, or those who are loyal to their party.

In a “safe” seat it probably wouldn’t matter much who you put up for election. Do people go through the CVs of all election candidates to see who might best represent them? Or do they instead vote for a particular political party, or on the basis of whether they like the party leader?

This is why, in my view, we are in this mess!

131512 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 3, #428 of 1090 🔗

I agree with regard to MPs and their quality/suitability. A house of independents may struggle to get anything done, on the other hand, though maybe that wouldn’t be such a bad thing. Who would do the research and draft and formulate policy? Maybe divide the house between independents and party members. It would be awkward as I think the independents would get pushed into declaring broad support for one or other party at election time.

We have differing views as to the reasons behind this all, yes, but I like to think that we are united in a common belief that what’s being done is very wrong, and think when dealing with non-sceptics we should stick to a core message in order to better sell it.

131516 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to John P, 8, #429 of 1090 🔗

I think the Johnson is in many regards a skilled politician – in the pure sense that he has achieved challenging political goals. He’s the only Conservative to win the London Mayoral election; he was instrumental in winning the Brexit vote; he won the Conservative leadership; he out-manoeuvred Remainers (with ruthlessness ejecting MPs and skirting around Parliament re prorogation last year) to deliver Brexit via a landslide GE victory.

Are we now to believe he really is just an utter buffoon with no clue what’s going on? And the same goes for everyone advising him?

I’m still not sure – but the longer this goes on the harder it is to believe it is just basic idiocy.

131592 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to zacaway, #430 of 1090 🔗

The lockdown zealots are shifting the goalposts daily. The “long covid” narrative; the “Sweden did actually lock down” narrative. Eventually, when it is obvious to everyone that any second wave is going to be negligible and, largely, an artificial creation, I think the Johnson will save his skin.

131626 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, 6, #431 of 1090 🔗

Johnson knows he got it wrong in March. He’s looking for a way out without obviously reverse-ferreting. Trouble is, I don’t think he’s got the boots for the puddle of shit he’s standing in, so he’s more like a rabbit caught in headlights.

Sometimes do nothing, or do as little as possible, really is the best option. Johnson is far from the only politician who needs to learn this lesson.

Still, I made the prediction of the 5th October for all this to be over. I’m having a chocolate hat made, I’ll obviously have to eat it, barring a miracle and I don’t like the taste of cloth. That’s why I don’t wear a muzzle…

131662 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, #432 of 1090 🔗

Ha, good idea on the hat!

Seems then when Johnson is in a hole he calls in the JCBs and doubles-down on the digging. Hopefully he’ll the magma soon.

131517 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to John P, #433 of 1090 🔗

True in that it doesn’t seem to be very intelligent to want to make others lives miserable deliberately. You would have to be very sure that people would not reach anger/breaking point or that when they did you the person responsible would be well out of harms way.

131590 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to KBuchanan, 2, #434 of 1090 🔗

They are out of harm’s way; the Prime Minister has bodyguards. We not only do not, but we are forbidden to apply for a Firearm Certificate on those grounds, nor can we hire armed bodyguards, no matter how rich we might happen to be.

131534 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to John P, 3, #435 of 1090 🔗
131545 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to John P, 10, #436 of 1090 🔗

I am with you on the incompetent rabble theory but I think they secretly know they have messed this up and are, as Lord Sumption has pointed out, now desperate to cover it up by perpetuating continued fear and by lack of openness. Deaths used to be reported with details of age, health etc. Now you have to search even for numbers. I also think there is a big element of arrogance here – they think they are cleverer than everyone else and that their incompetence and attempts to cover it up will thus not be noticed.

131547 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 2, #437 of 1090 🔗

John, I agree with some of what you say, and disagree with other parts. In my experience, it is usually not certain which of the two positions are more persuasive unless, and until, you can see the whole picture. It is also the case that what starts off as an almighty cock-up, morphs into a deliberate process. There is a great article written many years ago by strategy scholar Henry Minzberg (‘Of strategies deliberate and emergent) that describes two ends of a continuum along which real world strategies lie, and this provides, in my view, and interesting perspective on what may be going on here.

131597 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #438 of 1090 🔗

I don’t agree there are two positions , I believe there are three. The third position is that the publicly elected politicians are bumbling fools, and those who hold the power are the unelected bureaucrats and organisations like the UN, WHO and Council on Foreign Relations.

131803 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to nat, 1, #439 of 1090 🔗

Add in a world bank or two and some serious money I like this option of 3.

131550 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to John P, 9, #440 of 1090 🔗

I think it’s a bit of both.

The incompetent’s panicked, the cabal saw the once in a generation opportunity was right to put their plans into place and then used the incompetents to facilitate it as having intelligent people in charge they would have seen through everything and the plan would have failed.

131611 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #441 of 1090 🔗

Agree – I don’t think there is some masterplan conspiracy, but there are certainly people using this opportunity to push their own agendas (that probably overlap in many cases) whether that’s council jobsworths, BLM, vaccine producers smelling a few quid to make or tin-pot dictators like Kim-Jong Dan.

Another possibility is that the incompetents have spotted an opportunity created by their earlier mistakes are now pursuing some other agenda.

131600 ▶▶ mjr, replying to John P, 1, #442 of 1090 🔗

correct in that the government is incompetent and most politicians are a self serving waste of space .
However you can then see why others with a bit more nouse might be taking advantage of this incompetence and leading us on somewhere else

131617 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mjr, 3, #443 of 1090 🔗

Aye, everybody with an agenda loves a crisis. As well as the climate mob, vaccination mob, whichever mob, you get the conspiracy theorists who think some shadowy organisation is behind everything, planned it all to the nth degree, pulls the strings of the world’s politicians, yadda, yadda, yadda.

The climate mob have a manifesto, whether you agree with it or not, and it is quite plain and open. The vaccination mob have a manifesto, whether you agree with it or not, and it is quite plain and open. The crypto-Communists or whoever have a manifesto, also quite open.

But the conspiracy theorists? I don’t doubt their passion or belief, but I’m yet to hear a conspiracy theory that actually makes strategic sense.

131671 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to John P, #444 of 1090 🔗

you ask good questions. Personal experience recall (but not me personally) – local political party cronies chose not to select the candidate for the Conservative safe seat here in East Yorkshire – someone who would have ‘served’ his constituency well and with sincerity and intellect and hard work (this was back in the 1980s). Reading Isobel Hardman book last year on ‘why we get the politicians we deserve’ highlights the corruption, the nods and winks, the greasy palms and the sheer personal dislike that crept over the 30 odd people who chose the uninspiring and invisible candidate over a August bank holiday weekend on behalf of 40,000 houses. Reading the diary extracts from the wife of whoever Hugo is makes me think we really all get the politicians we deserve and it is not a good place to be. Almost all incompetent, inept & pretty useless from where I’m looking.

131894 ▶▶ Marina Peerman, replying to John P, #445 of 1090 🔗

I agree with the possibility of your two scenarios but would like to add one more? Is it I agree with the possibility of your two scenarios but would like to add one more? Is it possible the big decision makers in our government might simply be bedwetters themselves? We’ve read accounts on this website from lockdown sceptic doctors, head teachers, etc, who report that many of their own colleagues are terrified of this virus.

I had some fun with googling-up numbers of people affected by the range of underlying health conditions the NHS list as putting people at moderate to high risk for the virus (diabetes, obesity, lung disease, heart disease, over the age of 70, etc) and it adds up to about 30,000,000 people (or diagnoses) in this country. There will be many government ministers/”leading” scientists who have one of these underlying conditions Anyway, just another desperate grasp at trying to understand why we’re still in this lockdown mess!

132093 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to John P, #446 of 1090 🔗

I think the government panicked and by the time they realised they were to far behind the narrative with the full backing of the media to change tack. I think the response since then is to try to gauge public opinion and act accordingly .I think another problem is political opinion world wide and what’s happening with the American presidential election. A few months back when Trump was against masks the democrats decided they were for them and i believe through social media this argument has influenced mask policies everywhere.Trump fearing it might be an election issue changed tack and said he was not against them and they were patriotic Johnson in turn to hedge his bets on the changing scene decides there the way to go.Is Johnson now seeing action by governments in Europe and not wanted to seem to be standing still reacting to events again ,thats my guess.There is no conspiracy but it is still tyranny and we the people need to bring this fool to account as soon as possible .

131500 Tarfu, 2, #447 of 1090 🔗

Had an enjoyable pub lunch last Friday. The Landlord and his wife did not wear masks. ‘Great’, I thought. Some common sense prevailing here. Those waiting on table all wore plastic visors, bar one who had a mask. The only waiter wearing a mask took it off when he returned to the bar, only to put the same mask back on again when approaching a table.This on/off routine went on at regular intervals for about 90 minutes, whereupon we left.

As my dining companions are all hardcore Covid Bedwetters who believe masks will save the human race and cannot wait to get in line for an untested, unlicensed vaccination, I smiled to myself, said nothing and continued to enjoy my meal.

131506 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 12, #448 of 1090 🔗

Thankfully, there is now beginning a pushback for masks in health and shop settings following from Awkward Git’s advice.

The wife just told me of one.

It basically is a refusal to wear a mask because the risk assessment isn’t there for what happens if you get ill from wearing the thing. Essentially the Greater Harm condition.

131542 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mhcp, 5, #449 of 1090 🔗

Glad I made a difference.

131549 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to mhcp, 2, #450 of 1090 🔗

Considering the “Precautionary Principle” is the be all and end all then we should use it ourselves regarding the dangers of masks.

131559 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #451 of 1090 🔗

Indeed. You could say a mask builds up a “Bacterial Bomb” that you then let loose in your house or in your car or any enclosed space. The irony being that human skin has a way of limiting the amount of infections you can spread. Like a mild form of antibacterial or antiseptic.

131509 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 5, #452 of 1090 🔗

“Coronavirus vaccines being developed in China may be ready for use by the general public as early as November, an official with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said.”

So we can’t trust 5G from China, although we actually will still be using Huawei even though they say we aren’t as the ban doesn’t come into place till 2027 and the entire 5G infrastructure will be built by then! But we can trust a vaccine made by them which we will all have to have injected inside our bodies.

131577 ▶▶ leggy, replying to JohnB, 4, #453 of 1090 🔗

I thought I read yesterday that China weren’t going to bother vaccinating because SARS-CoV-2 has pretty much disappeared?

131947 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to leggy, #454 of 1090 🔗

The quote doesn’t say their population. It may mean it will be ready for sale to other countries for use on their populations. The Chinese are great at manufacturing and selling things all over the world, so why not vaccines?

131518 Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 8, #455 of 1090 🔗

I’ll just say that in my part of the People’s Republic of Scotland, friends, who have rigidly stuck to the rules so far, are not with the rule of 6. Still wearing face masks, but it’s a start!

131548 ▶▶ hat man, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #456 of 1090 🔗

Would that be because it’s 8 in Scotland, or have I misunderstood?

131567 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to hat man, 2, #457 of 1090 🔗

It is 6 in Scotland but young children are exempt.

131522 petgor, replying to petgor, 18, #458 of 1090 🔗

In all my 76 years, I have never lived in a period when my fellow british man and woman, excluding those contributing to “Lockdown Sceptics”, have failed to question a governments motives and actions. Perhaps what appears to be the majority, are enjoying if not possible martyrdom, then the possibility of I’ll health.

131537 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to petgor, 9, #459 of 1090 🔗

I also detect a certain level of virtue signalling with those who proclaim that they’re having to “self isolate.”
Or am I misreading this??

131538 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, 2, #460 of 1090 🔗

They’re doing their bit and saving granny.

131554 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lms23, 1, #461 of 1090 🔗

agree.

also brag about positive tests

131557 ▶▶ Julian, replying to petgor, 14, #462 of 1090 🔗

I think there are some people who like to think they are living through momentous events as it makes their lives more interesting or meaningful. I think they are mad, but each to their own. Just don’t impose your madness on me, thanks.

131609 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Julian, 6, #463 of 1090 🔗

I was thinking this the other day. Perhaps people’s lives are so boring and devoid of any self-imbued meaning that they look to ‘momentous’ outside events to make it more interesting, make it feel as if they’re living through a ‘crisis’ they can tell their grandchildren about, or make themselves the protagonist in their own personal disaster film. Maybe this is why so many people are so eager to comply with and even enforce (e.g. snitching on neighbours) the Covid diktats.

131616 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Poppy, 3, #464 of 1090 🔗

They may not have been looking for it, but some have certainly embraced it when it came along

131619 ▶▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to Julian, 4, #465 of 1090 🔗

I was thinking similar thoughts the other day. If asked in the future how I survived the great pandemic of 2020, I’ll probably say it was all bollocks. I’m sure there are people out there who will tell an Epic story of how they isolated for months but caught the plague, came close to deaths door for months but just about made it through.

131720 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to PaulParanoia, #466 of 1090 🔗

It is a kind of war.. but not a WAR.

131767 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to PaulParanoia, 2, #467 of 1090 🔗

Hopefully we’ll still be around to laugh ourselves senseless at them. 🙂

131915 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #468 of 1090 🔗

Amen to that!
“How I Did My Bit By Heroically Wetting My Knickers Under The Bed.”

131990 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Julian, #469 of 1090 🔗

Spot on Julian. Life was too easy for most people, and then suddenly it wasn’t/isn’t.

131525 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #470 of 1090 🔗

Someone mentioned 4 horseman Coaches for the Diamond Princess passengers.

I found a story with photos showing this is correct and there were 4 coaches but it was hard to find, I had to use duckduckgo with Japan as there region for it to appear and then ti was only 1 hit:

https://cbwmagazine.com/horseman-coaches-transport-repatriated-british-citizens/

Why did they use a company named “Horseman Coaches” to ferry coronavirus suspected passengers from the Diamond Princess? And why 4 coaches?

I know the story says 5 coaches were used but there are only pictures showing 4 of them.

And why 5 for 83 passengers, surely 2 or 3 at most were required?

Coincidence?

One of those things?

Or trying to tell us something – 4 horseman of the apocalypse?

Aren’t the 4 horseman Death, War, Famine and Pestilence?

This is a pestilence, famine has been predicted this winter by the WHO and the war drums are beating for a showdown with China and Russia.

131558 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #471 of 1090 🔗

The company was “Horseman Coaches” and the famous photograph was for the coaches bringing the quarantinees to Arrowe Park Hospital in the Wirral.

The scummy police put cones out along the approach roads, thinking that there would be a huge “anti-quarantinee” demo, but instead the people were met with presents and gifts of toiletries (a huge amount, I saw the piles of stuff that were donated) and the local Red Cross kept an eye on things, as some of us thought that there might have been a risk of the people “disappearing” if the disease turned out to be particularly virulent.

I went and bought the first lot a couple of cakes to celebrate their release. The government, of course had been advised that there was a danger of plague, and that’s why they chose the Wirral; if you look at the map, you can see that it would be relatively easy to seal off the Wirral Peninsula.

131708 ▶▶ Phoneutria, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #472 of 1090 🔗

The company is named after its founder – Joe Horseman.

131752 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Phoneutria, 1, #473 of 1090 🔗

Horseman Coaches is a local firm here in Reading. They got quite a lot of coverage in the local press at the time.

131528 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 11, #474 of 1090 🔗

Sky reporting: “ The growth in grocery sales slowed in August, with shoppers spending £155m less in supermarkets amid the government’s Eat Out to Help Out scheme .”

Was it really the Eat Out to Help Out scheme, or was it in fact because of mandatory muzzling which has made it less inviting to just pop out to the local Tesco Express (other brands are available) or changing to online shopping and not buying the impulse items whilst in the store?

131533 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to JohnB, 9, #475 of 1090 🔗

I didn’t join the “Eat out” campaign, as I don’t want to get involved in any mandatory mask situation, or being bossed around under CV19 rules.
I also haven’t been to any supermarket store for the same reason. MOH goes and doesn’t allow me to go in case start an argument. That’s saved us money, with a lot less spent in the supermarket with me not there and picking up additional stuff to buy.

Note: MOH loves chicken.

I’m getting very, very bored with chicken….

131749 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lms23, 2, #476 of 1090 🔗

MOH does all the shopping as well as I can’t tolerate being muzzled for that long. Then he constantly asked me if we have this or that, to which I answer, “You do all the shopping so why are you asking me whether we have this or that?” So no impulse purchases happening for us either, but we do switch up the proteins!

132000 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Lms23, 1, #477 of 1090 🔗

I didn’t Eat Out either. Can’t stand the regimentation and the masks everywhere, so I’ve eaten at home every day since the beginning of this mess. ASDA brings my shopping once a month and I eat fresh veg from my allotment. Now that I’m used to cooking for myself again, I don’t plan to go back to eating out. Plus I’ve now lost over 7 kgs (intentionally).

131571 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to JohnB, 12, #478 of 1090 🔗

No one in our household has been in a supermarket since 22 July – all grocery shopping is now completely on-line. Much more efficient and organised, no impulse buys or “better buy this in case we have run out”. The prospect of wearing a muzzle (or more precisely having to argue with people because I won’t wear one) has put the kybosh on visits to shops.

131576 ▶▶ Will, replying to JohnB, 7, #479 of 1090 🔗

That is exactly what has happened with me. Saving £20-£30 a shop through click and collect. Must be costing the supermarkets a fortune because there is no way £1.50 will be covering the cost of the picker etc.

132001 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Will, #480 of 1090 🔗

Make it up in volume!

131614 ▶▶ Steve, replying to JohnB, 6, #481 of 1090 🔗

Footfall in our store has been noticeably down since the mask wearing started. Not really a surprise, the store is near the town centre and is heavily reliant on passing trade and who wants to go shopping or into town with the mask requirements? People continuing to work from home hasn’t helped either.

131661 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 6, #482 of 1090 🔗

I have noticed that even supermarkets have been quiet with some dead. Mandatory muzzling has a lot to answer for as one checkout assistant has admitted to me as much.

I still go into supermarkets but have mastered the blitz shopping which means that I can get my shopping done within 10-20 minutes depending on the length of my list.

131531 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 12, #483 of 1090 🔗

Invitation from local opticians for me to arrange an overdue appointment; however, all the usual dreary instructions are in place : telephone assessment to see if I’m a dangerous bug spreader; carefully timed appointment and ‘face coverings’ must be worn.Sanitiser, temperature check etc., patients advised to attend on their own.

Admittance by prearrangement; no walk ins.

Face coverings! When will this stop? I could walk in with a piece of cloth suitably placed and allowed to proceed, whereas if I appear, face bare, breathing freely, the consulting optician can refuse to see me, claiming safety concerns.

Doesn’t anyone ever read the multitude of papers which question the need for these wretched things?

Secondly local beautician, whom I’ve known for many years, now thinks that anyone without an exemption badge should be challenged-(I was wearing mine).

I explained that this is not enforceable, and that furthermore, holders of exemption badges are not obliged to reveal the reasons for exemption.

She pondered this , but then went on to say that she was now thinking of wearing one indoors- meaning at home!

I realise that small business owners are essentially stuck between a rock and a hard place, as far as all this control creep is concerned, but the avid conviction and enthusiastic compliance are firmly embedded here in Sturgeon land.

Very demoralising and I won’t bother with the bossy opticians.

131555 ▶▶ leggy, replying to wendyk, 7, #484 of 1090 🔗

I’ve never worn glasses, but my close up sight deteriorated during lockdown so I made an appointment – that took 6 weeks to get one. To be fair to the ophthalmologist, she was fine and I invited her to remove her mask when we were in consultation, and she did. I received a prescription for some readers and the sales assistant offered to lend me a facemask so that I could check what frames might work with it – I kid you not! Regardless to say, I made my excuses and left.

131560 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to leggy, 2, #485 of 1090 🔗

Good for you. I don’t think that mine would be so obliging; notice on the door -‘Face coverings must be worn’.

No ifs, no buts.

131582 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to wendyk, 8, #486 of 1090 🔗

Sturgeon can stick her diktats where the sun don’t shine.

Avid conviction and enthusiastic compliance is unbelievable here, well actually, now that I think about it, not really. The Scottish population has been one of the most aggresively propogandized nations on earth. We are nothing more than a proving ground for their diabolical plans. A cesspit of paedophilia, Freemasonic control of all the levers of state, religious division, racism (anti Irish racism and bigotry openly tolerated and encouraged), alcoholism, cocaine-ism, tobacco/weed smoking and addiction, dumbed down education, trash TV, poverty through the roof, children going hungry, suicides through the roof….need I go on?!

The sooner that wee Jimmy Krankie tin pot dictator and all her cohorts are swinging the better as far as I am concerned. Traitors the lot of them to the people.

I will never acquiesce to any of it and will tell anyone who tries to convince me otherwise to Eff Off. It’s time folk got a backbone and started doing the same.

SAOR ALBA

Cheers
B

131941 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to B Boru, #487 of 1090 🔗

That’s why as a Fifer i call for Independence for Fife. We’re Picts and Scotland and all it’s bullshit can bugger off.

131754 ▶▶ davews, replying to wendyk, 2, #488 of 1090 🔗

My eye test at Specsavers a couple of weeks ago was more or less normal. You had to use the sanitiser on entry (in fact THEY squirted it on your hands), all staff in muzzles and smocks, but otherwise no different from normal. Not a word about me sans mask but with a prominent lanyard.

131788 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to davews, 1, #489 of 1090 🔗

I’m thinking of switching to Specsavers, so thanks for this. Only problem being that I’ll need to brave a short journey by Scotrail, which has an extensive list of rules and deterrents for heretics like me.

131784 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to wendyk, 5, #490 of 1090 🔗

In my town we now only have one sandwich shop which prepares sandwiches to order. It is very small premises and they have a notice they demand doctors note from people without mask.
Never liked them anyway, so will never shop there again.

131789 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Silke David, 4, #491 of 1090 🔗

How not to run a business.

131910 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Silke David, 2, #492 of 1090 🔗

Discrimination and harassment.

131539 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #493 of 1090 🔗

Someone mentioned earlier the 6 months Limitations on proceedings for going to court after refusing to accept a FPN or caution.

This legal age says that is correct for certain offences:

https://crimehome.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/6-month-limitation-period-in-the-magistrates-court/

General rule s.127 Magistrates’ Court 1980
The prosecutor has to inform the magistrates’ court by issuing a charge, summons, postal requisition or a complaint within 6 months of an offence being committed. This rule means that the magistrates’ have no jurisdiction to deal with a case brought more than 6 months after a crime has occurred.

The rule is in s.127 Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 .

So clog up the court system.

131588 ▶▶ alw, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #494 of 1090 🔗

The police can’t caution you without asking you whether you will accept it. Just say NO and clog up system.

131543 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 7, #495 of 1090 🔗

In the meantime the Irish Gov have unveiled their cunning plan “Living with COVID 19”. It has five levels, with one being the least restrictive (though still with face masks and distancing rules). Each level has a detailed list of rules / requirements. The whole country is currently on level 2 though Dublin has tighter restrictions due to higher “cases” (e.g. the pubs will remain closed unless they serve a 9 euro meal). So level 2.5 then?

The criteria for each level are described in terms such as “low levels”,”stable”, “increasing”, “decreasing” etc. There are no measurable criteria included so I suppose they will make that up as they go along. Levels 2, 3 and 4 have exactly the same criteria but very different rules ?!?! The plan lasts for 6-9 months. It appears that the only exit strategy is a vaccine.

I’m not making this up – check it out here if you have the energy but I need a lie down:
https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/resilience-recovery-2020-2021-plan-for-living-with-covid-19/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/en/publication/acc4de-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-10-august-phase-4/

131553 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to godowneasy, 11, #496 of 1090 🔗

Ha ha vaccine? Yeah right. In this mess forever, just as planned! Glad I am 68 and not 28, at least I have had a life. Not wishing it to be over of course, I am still fit and well, but you know what I mean. Life has changed – forever. But we will continue to fight for a return back to the good parts of the old normal as quickly as we can.

131561 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to William Hand, 5, #497 of 1090 🔗

Did you see the Oxford University professor of vaccinology when interviewed earlier? She must’ve said the words safe or safety about 50 times in the short interview. I think she’s trying to say it enough times so that she herself will start to convince herself that it is safe!

131568 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 9, #498 of 1090 🔗

If *this* is ‘safety’, give me danger any day …

131739 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to kh1485, 2, #499 of 1090 🔗

I’m with you! I don’t understand how people can’t do a simple risk assessment — take my chances with Covid and have a 99.5% chance or recovery or take an untested, rushed-to-market vaccine with unknown and potentially long-term side effects?

131746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #500 of 1090 🔗

Exactly. I take risks every damn day and I don’t need some bloody MP waffling on about keeping me “safe”.

Instructive now that a lot of my customers (the ones I am accused of wanting to kill) are the ones who are totally fed up with all this crap. Thrilled to see today several who were masked-up a few weeks ago come in mask free. And … look a damn sight more cheerful to boot.

131572 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to JohnB, #501 of 1090 🔗

Have you got a link?

DavidC

131629 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to JohnB, 1, #502 of 1090 🔗

All the repetition of “safety” that has been going on for months always makes me think of Knight and Day with Tom cruise, where if they tell you you’re safe and secure, they’re going to kill you…

131564 ▶▶ Will, replying to godowneasy, 6, #503 of 1090 🔗

Do you think that they think people are too stupid to see what is happening in Sweden?

131578 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Will, 3, #504 of 1090 🔗

That can be the only conclusion sadly which therefore doesn’t give much hope for an alternative way out of the COVID prison.

131583 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 1, #505 of 1090 🔗

Some are. Some don’t want to see. I mentioned Sweden’s success to a friend and was sent back a two-month-old interview with Tegnell in which he admitted they could have done some things better. I think she thought that dealt with the Swedish Question. Sunk cost fallacy I am afraid.

131565 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to godowneasy, 11, #506 of 1090 🔗

Hi mate

the end game has always been the vaccine, all the rest is just smoke, mirrors and window dressing.

People need to take that next step in their evolution of mind and realise that this agenda has been their all along. Once you do, and you will, then a lot of the queries, why’s?, and what for’s? will be answered.

I’m afraid that people are goping to have to come to accept that there is a cabal of extremely powerful individuals dictating this agenda to all their subservient and bought and paid for acolytes in the government/media/police/etc carrying out their will, by force if necessary. We are in the midst of a technocratic, fascistic takeover of the entire planet and population to install and surveillance/police state to the point where you are no longer a human being and are answerable to AI, connected to Kurzweil and Google’s SMART grid by direct interface with your mind and ultimately just an automaton software programme who will no longer even think unapproved thoughts because you will be part of the hive mind. They call this moment, The Singularity.

These people are extreme Psychopaths and do not give one shred of thought to what they do or how their actions impact on peoples lives….in fact, the more misery, suffering and death they can create then the more they get off on it.

Yes….The tin foil hat wearing ‘conspiracy theorists’ were right all along!

Amazing how there are so many of us now!!

Cheers
B

131602 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to B Boru, 8, #507 of 1090 🔗

I disagree. The end game now for our government is to stay in power, and enjoy the easy power, lack of scrutiny and the feeling they are doing something noble, and to cover their backsides. Others may have the end game of a vaccine, but I don’t think our government does. If they did, once we have a vaccine it will end there. Having an indefinite public health emergency is much better for them.

131696 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Julian, 3, #508 of 1090 🔗

You think?

It has already been ‘suggested’, Pre-emptive programming more like, by key stakeholder Gates that ‘we may need more than one shot’…..this will go on and on and on if they are allowed…until the depopulation agenda is satisfied mate. It’s about more than governments holding onto power I assure you.

Cheers
B

131621 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to B Boru, 3, #509 of 1090 🔗

I don’t buy it. These buffoons are not sufficiently organised or visionary.

It’s important that the anti-lockdown cases focuses on violation of personal freedom rather than conspiracy theories backed up by circumstantial evidence or worse, anti-Vaxx and 5G arguments.

The personal freedom angle is something we can all coalesce around, whether Left or Right or moderate.

131657 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #510 of 1090 🔗

You’re assuming that the buffoon politicians are making their own decisions.
i have known this is about the vaccine and immunity ID’s from the start. There is just so much evidence of the gain of function research being offshored to Wuhan. And so much evidence that those in the know, knew exactly what was coming. The politicians are just tools (maybe both types).
Moderna started their vaccine research in Spring 2019…
https://youtu.be/E6-WM-gj_FM?list=WL&t=227

131658 ▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to jhfreedom, #511 of 1090 🔗

Fair point BUT – the buffoons don’t need to be organised or visionary because they are only the puppets in all this; they are not writing their own script.

131669 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to godowneasy, #512 of 1090 🔗

Exactly mate, well said.

Cheers
B

131685 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #513 of 1090 🔗

Would you have asked the same question about ‘violations of personal freedoms’ 6 months ago? indeed, would you or did you question any of it at the start? or has it just been lately once the ‘official’ data itself has showed it’s all bollocks?

I’m not asking you to buy it anyway, all I would say is….keep an open mind and don’t respond with reflex impulse.

‘conspiracy theories backed up by circumstantial evidence or worse, anti-Vaxx and 5G arguments’ ….now that’s interesting. A lot of people would say that most of what is being said on here would fall under that category!

There is more than circumstantial evidence around both of those topics. FOr example, do you have a vaccine injured family member? Probably not, I do. As for 5G, what part of military developed microwaves not being dangerous to the human body and mind don’t you get? DO you have any clue as to how the technology actually operates and what it can do to a living cell at the frequencies companies are wanting to use?

I would suggest some reference material which is widely available online to apply some due-diligence of your own to.

But you made it on here so well done for the effort, now keep asking more questions and do your own research.

Cheers
B

131699 ▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to B Boru, 2, #514 of 1090 🔗

Ok I will keep listening.

But the easier argument is about loss of personal freedom. This is a self-evident phenomenon – the masks, the metres, the ‘six’ nonsense – which everyone experiences every day. Whereas it is harder to convert people on 5G and vaccinations since they are more abstract concepts and require a lot of research and judgement.

It may be more pragmatic just to put the latter arguments to one side for the time being.

Like nailing Al Capone for tax. Yes it would have been nice to have got him on murder and everything else he got up to, but they got him into jail on tax. Easier to prosecute and the same desired result.

131710 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #515 of 1090 🔗

Couldn’t agree more mate. As I heard it put the other day…..Let’s just storm the hill first and we can sort out the rest of that stuff once we get there!

This is just the catalyst for wider change and growth.

All the best and keep questioning and speaking up, take the flak and derision on your broad shoulders and keep on moving forward and speaking the truth.

Cheers
B

131750 ▶▶▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #516 of 1090 🔗

Conspiracy theories can only ever be “theories” as the powerful entities that execute them are hardly going to broadcast details of their dirty deeds! Are you saying that circumstantial evidence should never count for anything??!

131680 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to B Boru, 1, #517 of 1090 🔗

I’m with most of what you say here and have been from the beginning. It’s always been a case of wishing that the alternative voices were wrong (I doubt it) or that the mainstream narrative would crumble (Still possible). Seeing the Irish Gov plan today (and the UK stuff) removes any doubt about the permanence of their “new normal” mantra that they warned us about from the beginning.

BTW I don’t agree that the vaccine is the end game – it’s just a (highly profitable) enabler to all the other agenda items.

131691 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to godowneasy, 1, #518 of 1090 🔗

Well I agree there, perhaps I should have worded my reply differently. It is one of many end games. It is the end game however, for this particular stage.

The End End game….well….not sure many on here are ready for what that is!! Let’s just say, it’s not a thriving civilisation built on fairness, justice, human growth etc!! Think Star Trek’s Federation but more Sauron’s Vision!!

Cheers
B

131580 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to godowneasy, #519 of 1090 🔗

Does it genuinely believe these rules are cost-free?

131650 ▶▶ assoc, replying to godowneasy, 4, #520 of 1090 🔗

Pubs in Dublin still closed. Guess how many died of the virus in the Irish republic in past 24 hours. Yes, you guessed it, exactly none

131562 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 12, #521 of 1090 🔗

Most beautiful day. I at this moment stopped by the side of the road in a pretty countryside spot. Up ahead is nothing but blue sky and road. To my left cast aside into the grass. A used mother ducking surgical face mask. I’ve just made a video of it. Not sure why, I am not on social media but just seemed symbolic of this entire farce to record it. I can’t realistically pick the bloody thing up. But of course I will….what a world.

131574 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Leemc23, 7, #522 of 1090 🔗

Makes a change from used doggy bags I suppose. Both disgusting. I am a dog owner by the way but do not use the handles on the bags to loop over twigs! Doggy bags are put into my pocket until I find a bin, they make a great pocket warmer in winter!

131604 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to William Hand, 1, #523 of 1090 🔗

True. Too true. But what are we “good citizens / non minglers” supposed to do ? Masks should be worn only by those who are ill or infectious so you can’t pick up the mask. But let’s be honest no council picks up littler in the countryside. So it’s going to sit there for how long ? It’s so ridiculous

131733 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to William Hand, 1, #524 of 1090 🔗

I’m exactly the same. On a few occasions I have forgotten about the poop in my pocket and then put on the jacket the next day and wondered where the smell was coming from! Once you’ve done that a time or two, you never do it again.

131584 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Leemc23, 5, #525 of 1090 🔗

Every time I take the dogs for a walk I’m finding discarded masks all over the place, and there is no reason either as I’m walking in the countryside so people shouldn’t even be wearing the bloody things!

131587 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to JohnB, 3, #526 of 1090 🔗

Must admit I have not seen a single one up here on Dartmoor. Only ever seen one person wearing one, and he did the COVID shuffle when he saw me LOL. Generally masking up outside in rural Devon is still rare.

131606 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Leemc23, 4, #527 of 1090 🔗

On the verge outside my home this morning:

131902 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, #528 of 1090 🔗

Yuk yuk yuk.
We found one on a cliff top.
Yukyukyukyukyuk.

131926 ▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Sarigan, #529 of 1090 🔗

Same thing in the farthest reaches of Cambridgeshire this morning.

131581 William Hand, replying to William Hand, 18, #530 of 1090 🔗

Why does the BBC website always show schoolchildren wearing vile de-humanising masks? Anyone would think it was propaganda?

131585 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to William Hand, 3, #531 of 1090 🔗

BBC wouldn’t do anything like that, they are the purveyors of truth!

131591 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to JohnB, 3, #532 of 1090 🔗

Ah OK. I’ll pay more attention then. Good old Beeb, a National Treasure 🙂

131607 ▶▶ David, replying to William Hand, 5, #533 of 1090 🔗

There is a radio ad for Trusted PPE at the moment that carefully implies that all schoolchildren require a mask in order to attend school.

131620 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to David, 3, #534 of 1090 🔗

I’ve heard that, makes me want to puke

131659 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to David, 3, #535 of 1090 🔗

Advertising Standards should be all over that. A simple read of the law would suffice.

131596 NickR, 2, #536 of 1090 🔗

This chart shows Covid deaths 0-17 in English hospitals until 12th Sept. There have been 20, 16 of whom had pre-existing conditions. I think a good proportion of these poor kids were already in hospital when they caught the virus.
I’ve plotted this against the 5 year average for road deaths, this is for all GB under 15 year olds. Which averages at 52 per year, 1 per week. Actually this amazed me when I think of the number of kids I’ve known who’ve been killed on the roads.
I guess if I’d had road deaths for up to 19 year olds it would have been say 15% higher but equally if I had just England road deaths it would have been 15% lower, so it’s probably about comparable (England has about 85% of the UK population).
Anyway, the point is really that if you’re a parent of a school age kid then you should take comfort from the fact that if your child hasn’t got underlying serious health problems then there really isn’t much to fear and also that the chances of your child being killed on the road (about half the road deaths are as passengers in cars) is remarkably low.
It’s also worth noting that there hasn’t been a child death of any sort since the middle of June.

131599 Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, #537 of 1090 🔗

I’d say lol, but it isn’t. Makes the pervy bar staff using t&t data to contact people they fancy look almost acceptable:

Public Health Wales posts personal details of positive Covid people online: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/public-health-wales-data-breach-coronavirus-patients/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020200915%20%20House%20Ads%20%20SM+CID_9ae3829e0c1b9cf91349186f76afdc30

131605 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Miss Owl, 10, #538 of 1090 🔗

One of my regular customers came in today to ask what we were doing on Friday. She is very uneasy about her elderly parents’ details being retained. We told her that we would be doing the the very bare minimum of what was required as we were also really uncomfortable about taking customers’ personal details.

131719 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 3, #539 of 1090 🔗

You could mention that you have heard of – gasp – *some people* giving false details…

131738 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #540 of 1090 🔗

Are you bugging my shop?

131774 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 1, #541 of 1090 🔗

I do mystery shopping, dressed as a little old lady…

131782 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 1, #542 of 1090 🔗

Can homework eating dogs eat gestapo ledgers? Sometimes things happen and books go missing.

131741 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #543 of 1090 🔗

Pretty sure some other countries have had severe problems with this, harassing, stalking, esp ones where people had to leave comprehensive details – Police telling young females ‘just block a phone number’ is useless when they had to leave an address at a restaurant, and now face in-person harassment cos someone at the pizza parlour passed some details to all and sundry …!

131613 Laura Suckling, 1, #544 of 1090 🔗
131630 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 25, #545 of 1090 🔗

Just returned from a sortie into my town of Otley to get a minor scratch on my car sorted. Garage owner, a lovely, easy going chap told me to leave the car with him and he would polish it out within half an hour. Walked around town engaged in one of my favourite pastimes—people watching, and these days it’s a fascinating activity.
At one cafe, with tables outside, people were standing without masks. Then, after having decided to venture inside, would don masks and go to the counter. They then took off their masks to order and stayed mask free at their chosen table. Would they put their masks back on to negotiate the terrible, covid infested ten feet or so on their way out of the cafe? I didn’t hang around to find out.

Just around the corner, in the arcade, is another cafe which has actually formalised this ritual. A notice outside says ‘please wear a mask’ and as soon as you get in another notice says ‘please remove masks to order’. I didn’t see any other notices saying please replace mask to find a table but I did note that people sitting inside and outside were mask less. So, it would appear in Otley at least, Coroni has found its favourite breeding/infection ground which lies somewhere within a five to ten feet area situated between the entrance and the serving counter and as long as you are masked up in that danger zone no harm will befall you.

Next stop was the public library which until fairly recently has been closed. The door was open and I walked straight in, I didn’t see any notices. Immediately a young lady came up to me with her clip board and visor and first asked me, very politely, if I had a mask. ‘I;m exempt’ I replied just as courteously. ‘That’s fine’ she replied ‘but could I trouble you for your name and ‘phone number for track and trace purposes?’. ‘I’m only here to use the loo’ (which was true) I said with a big smile and she replied with an equally big smile ‘That’s OK—it’s not up to me I just have to ask these things’. On my way out I looked over to her, smiled and thanked her for her help. She smiled back through her visor. A nice girl I thought, well mannered, only trying to do her job in difficult times.

Teales the bakers have a notice outside that says ‘no mask no entry’. In I went, mask less of course. Lady behind her plastic wall gestured to her face and said ‘have you a mask’? ‘I’m exempt’ I replied and ordered four granary rolls and a jam tart which were duly served up no problem. Teales only accept cash which gives them an up tick in my book.

Back round to my garage where my car was ready and the scratch completely polished out. Owner wouldn’t accept any payment for such a small job and masks, distancing, and all other covid related rubbish was completely non existent. This bloke has adopted the ‘Harry Hopkins’ method of doing business—-do small stuff for nothing or near to it and the customer will come back with big jobs which will pay your way and enhance your reputation. For this, the garage deserves a plug: Woods Forge Garage–Otley. Great service, quality work, great prices and normal attitudes.

It’s dawning on me after going through easy going/angry/ and back to easy going that easy going is best. If challenged about my masklessness, I used to get mad and could quite easily slide into confrontation mode. Now I don’t, I just say I’m exempt and be as pleasant as possible with it. Anger is a very bad emotion, I’m finding I can maintain my anti lock down scepticism and all it entails, if I keep my cool and smile as much as possible.

131645 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Harry hopkins, 10, #546 of 1090 🔗

I tend to stick to my usual of treating people how I’m treated if a polite person instructs me to wear a mask I politely tell them I’m exempt if a maskzi shouts at me I tell them I’m fucking exempt and give them the evil eye.

It does bug me being asked, as far as I’m concerned if a person is not wearing a mask they are exempt no need to ask the question but I suppose that defeats the purpose of being able to control us.

131726 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #547 of 1090 🔗

Track and trace in the library ? Must be a Judith Blake edict.

131727 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #548 of 1090 🔗

OK, I laughed out loud when you described going into town to get an errand done a “sortie.” That’s what life has become now — a series of sorties just to do normal, mundane things. I guess, to keep the analogy going, I’m hunkered down in my bunker because I won’t wear a mask. Hubby does all the basic shopping and I get everything else I need online. With mask compliance at 100% here, I really don’t feel like going to battle over a loaf of bread.

131759 ▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #549 of 1090 🔗

I hear you, Lisa, I’m very much the same – I only go to my local petrol station each morning for a coffee, and they are all happy enough to see my smiling face (I’ve trained them well!) But the thought of going into any shop for the first time and not knowing what I’ll be met with just makes me nervous, so I avoid it as much as possible. That being said, when I’ve had to venture out to the shops (getting shopping for my elderly neighbour, for example), I haven’t been challenged, and I usually end up having a laugh with some masked person or other. So I need to keep reminding myself that the thought of going out unmasked is pretty much always worse than the reality. And I go on a charm offensive too – I always smile and say hello to everyone I meet, masked or not, and that often surprises a hello in response. And it’s rather hard to come back after that and have a go at me for not wearing a mask…;)

131771 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Quernus, 3, #550 of 1090 🔗

There’s much less compliance in the UK and very few challenges to the claim of exemption. Our stores have gotten around exemptions by offering curb side pick up, delivery, and the like. So I believe they can refuse entry without a mask because they offer an alternative. It’s a sneaky workaround but it allows them to keep masking mandatory while still offering those of us who can’t/won’t mask up an alternative to shopping in person. My understanding is that our only recourse here in Canada is to launch a human rights complaint or take the individual store/business to small claims court. If enough individuals went to small claims court the business would have no choice but to retain legal counsel and spend money to defend each individual claim. It’s a great strategy but there’s not enough momentum here in Canada, sadly.

131779 ▶▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #551 of 1090 🔗

Wow, I didn’t realise it was quite so strict over there. At least in the UK the exemptions are included in the legislation, and you don’t need proof, and no one should even ask why you’re exempt. Not all shops understand this rule though, so I take great pleasure in sending them copies of the relevant legislation, and pointing out that they are in breach of the Equality Act 2010 if they either refuse entrance for not wearing a mask, or ask what the reason is for not wearing on.

I really do hope that more people in Canada band together and challenge the laws. It’s starting to happen in the US, so perhaps the momentum is building ( https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/judge-strikes-down-pennsylvanias-pandemic-restrictions/ ). Until then, thank goodness for this website – at least we know we’re not alone out there, and sometimes it can certainly feel like we are.

131922 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #552 of 1090 🔗

I laughed myself when I read your comment about my ‘sortie’. My dad used to tell me that during the war, when he was a skilled RAF mechanic employed on maintaining and repairing Spitfires and Hurricanes, how brave the ‘brylcream boys were. These ridiculously young men used to wait for their scramblers to go off and then race for their planes, take off and fight the Jerrys. These were known as ‘sorties’.

Now I wouldn’t dream of comparing our lives to those of the Brylcream boys, after all their chances of survival were about one in three whilst in the face of coroni our chances of survival are about, umm, umpteen zillion to one. Never the less, just like the ‘few’ as Churchill called them, we sceptics are in the minority and fighting to preserve our way of live against the odds. Could it be that we sceptics are the modern day equivalent of the Brylcream boys? (I would include the term brylcream girls but I’m sure brylcream and girls hair have never been acquainted).

131747 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #553 of 1090 🔗

My local library is not quite so easy going. We have a ‘click and collect by appointment’ service, which although ridiculous is better than none as we rely heavily on library books.
Today we were in town so I popped into the library as I knew they had a book my daughter ordered but hadn’t yet made an appointment to collect it. Walked in, asked if I could please make an appointment to collect said book (I could see this book on the shelf behind library guy) ..was told I would need to phone up to make an appointment for a quiet time (couldn’t get much quieter, there were no other people in there, no one waiting outside either). Attempted to talk reason with the guy, could I not save myself the cost of a phone call and make appointment now? (thinking just pass the darn book over for jeepers sake) Eventually he agreed I could take the book now. Beyond the plastic screen where I was waiting I could see tables of books with ‘quarantined on such and such day’ labels on them. It’s all so ridiculous and nonsensical..

131975 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #554 of 1090 🔗

I also was much more confrontational at first but now am only in their face if they are other customers .Normally when dealing with the shop assistant i am very polite unless they seem to question me saying exempt ,whereupon i just say do you not understand what exempt means. I’m finding most shops are understanding the exempt rule now and i also feel that a lot more of the punters who thought mask wearing was a bit of fun or some new fashion are bored with it now .I went around the shops with a friend the other day who thought making a pirate mask was great fun a few weeks back,by the end of the day she was hot and bothered having to arrange her mask at every doorway and was getting pissed off with it as i strolled in .It’s no longer cool and she is getting an exemption card as she said it now makes her anxious .

131631 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 29, #555 of 1090 🔗

For those who didn’t read Lord Sumption in the Sunday Times:

“If one thing has become clear over the past six months, it is that aggressive measures of social distancing make little difference in the long run. They buy time, but reduce deaths only if they last indefinitely. Even buying time comes at a heavy price in depression, mental illness and misery. Ministers were warned about this by their scientific advisers in February and again in March. But we have a government that lurches from pillar to post, surprised by every development, even those that it was warned in the clearest terms to expect.

Every day that passes bears out the warning. Spain took the most extreme and brutally enforced measures in Europe. Sweden had the mildest measures: no lockdown or school closures and only moderate measures of social distancing. Yet Spain now has the worst second spike on the continent and Sweden none at all…..

…..The only way of eliminating Covid-19 is to achieve widespread immunity. That requires either an effective vaccine or a build up of resistance through exposure to the disease. Without (the vaccine) we are condemned to take the slow route through exposure to the disease. The more time we buy with our distancing measures, the longer that will take. Christmas? Easter? One year? Two or three? For how long can we suspend human civilisation?

131668 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Marie R, 21, #556 of 1090 🔗

He has been rock solid from the start. Fearless, eloquent, consistent, knowledgeable, astute.

131777 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Marie R, 4, #557 of 1090 🔗

The Richie Allen Show yesterday had Vernon Coleman giving some comment on what is happening to children. He reported suicides, the largest cause of death in under 16s is up 50% on 2019 figures.

131635 Ewan Duffy, 4, #558 of 1090 🔗

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0915/1165339-cso-census-2021/

They aren’t planning on relinquishing control anytime soon.

131643 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #559 of 1090 🔗

Government Comment: “Averting a second wave is a key priority for the government and high take up of a vaccine when available will greatly contribute to that.All vaccines used in the UK are thoroughly tested, meet strict safety criteria and are carefully monitored after they are introduced into the national programme. Our evidence-based immunisation programmes are informed by the advice of our work leading expert committee – the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI), which reviews a wide range of scientific and other evidence, keeping the vaccine schedule safe and relevant.”

In answer to the government’s reply – there is no scientific evidence of a second wave of Covid 19, as the testing for Covid is faulty and case numbers cannot proven. Secondly, although the vaccines are said to be tested carefully, the trial by Astra Zenica is continuing in the UK, despite a dangerous reaction from one of the participants and it is still paused in the USA for further investigation. Until all the countries testing this vaccine are able to approve a continuation of the trial, it seems very dangerous to continue the trial in the UK, therefore going against the government’s commitment for safety of patients. This does not encourage belief in this vaccine that could cause much harm to the people being tested, never mind the millions the government wishes to inject. Too little is known about this vaccine and its ingredients and too little time seems to be taken to ensure it is safe or even worth developing, for a virus which may be something humankind can learn to live with, like a common cold. Forcing people to accept such a vaccine in unacceptable.

131648 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #560 of 1090 🔗

Scientist who fled China publishes research claiming COVID-19 ‘created in military lab’
A LEADING Chinese scientist has published research claiming the coronavirus came from a military lab in China and not from a wet market.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1335700/China-coronavirus-cover-up-scientist-military-lab-wet-market-where-did-coronavirus-start

131651 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #561 of 1090 🔗

Denise Welch furiously lashes out at Matt Hancock as he addresses rule of six ‘F**k off!’

DENISE WELCH – actress, presenter and panellist on Loose Women – has hit out at Health Secretary Matt Hancock after he reminded Twitter users about the new rule of six, which was put into place yesterday as coronavirus cases rise across the UK.

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/1335724/Denise-Welch-twitter-Matt-Hancock-rule-of-six-coronavirus-news-latest

express celebrity-news/1335724/Denise-Welch-twitter-Matt-Hancock-rule-of-six-coronavirus-news-latest

131652 Mark, replying to Mark, 8, #562 of 1090 🔗

Sky News Australia seems to scent blood on desperate Dan, the Aussie Labour covid c**t:
Daniel Andrews will ‘decide to go’ by Christmas: Peta Credlin

131684 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 3, #563 of 1090 🔗

And this is how low, and outright dishonest, political scum like Andrews will go, trying to turn a protest story back on the protester by waving the shroud of his father (who died 4 years ago!) to try to pretend the protester was somehow “dragging his family into it” by putting boots outside a barn that happens to be one that reminded Andrews of his father.

This, of course, is cynically manipulative shedding of crocodile tears for the camera, on Andrews part, and he should be brutally mocked and ridiculed for it, not have his mendacious bullshit taken seriously by media outlets. Downright Blairite, in its contemptible dishonesty. Not sure why the Mail seems to be giving it credence in this way.

The cruel reason why this photo of gumboots outside of a farm shed caused Daniel Andrews to explode in anger, saying ‘shame, shame on him, shame’

131655 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 30, #564 of 1090 🔗

Mrs Tenchy works in a school. She’s told me of the utterly stupid antisocial distancing measures and other idiotic protocols that have been introduced. I won’t go into details here, but suffice it to say, the children care nothing for any of this. On their way to school and when they leave, there is a refreshing contempt displayed as they, en-masse, totally disregard anything to do with antisocial distancing and the “rule of bollocks”. I can confirm this situation, having just been out as the local secondary school disgorged hundreds of pupils onto the streets. There was no regard whatsoever to the Hysteria and no evidence at all of antisocial distancing. In fact, quite the reverse, for most of them. I like it.

131666 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 15, #565 of 1090 🔗

I agree. Watching school chucking out time and playgrounds is generally one of the best antidotes to all this rubbish.

131667 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Tenchy, -4, #566 of 1090 🔗

I hope they don’t all have grannies!

131682 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Tenchy, 7, #567 of 1090 🔗

I think they have worked out that they don’t get ill from this virus. Most probably don’t know anyone who has died from it. (I know one who is in the official death toll, but she died of cancer)

131660 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #568 of 1090 🔗

Matt Hancock reminds us that evil men so often look very ordinary.

 We should keep contacting the police to say that we’ve seen cabinet members socialising in groups of 7.

131664 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #569 of 1090 🔗

…. including a gimlet-eyed fanatic who’s clearly up to no good.

131677 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #570 of 1090 🔗

Heinrich Himmler looked quite ordinary.

131678 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #571 of 1090 🔗

I quite like Charlie Brookers description of him that he looks like your sisters first boyfriend with a car. My question is does he have a reflection in a mirror? Someone needs to check.

131683 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #572 of 1090 🔗

Will their defence be that they struggle with numbers?

131718 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #573 of 1090 🔗

Hannah Arendt’s “the banality of evil” personified — which includes most (if not all) of our elected officials and all of the non-elected public health monsters.

131665 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 28, #574 of 1090 🔗

Hahahahahahaha. Have you seen this absolute balderdash from the transport Secretary (reported in The Telegraph live feed):

Graffiti ‘putting people off returning to railways after lockdown’

Railway graffiti is discouraging people from going back to the office after lockdown, Grant Shapps has claimed.

Oh, so it’s nothing to do with antisocial distancing, face nappies, the proliferation of high-vis Hitlers and all the rest of the Hysteria? All of which help to impart a massive sense of abnormality to everyday life. No, that’s nothing to do with it! Bloody graffiti, that’s the problem. What a tosspot the man is!

131670 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Tenchy, 12, #575 of 1090 🔗

He’s just trolling us now.

131690 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tenchy, 6, #576 of 1090 🔗

Words of a desperate or deluded minister.

No, Grant most organisations decided not to open their offices as the government continue to implement non sensical rules. Also we are all waiting for all government employees to return to work and set the example.

131692 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, 4, #577 of 1090 🔗

Yet they laud Banksy!

131705 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tenchy, 8, #578 of 1090 🔗

What, the graffiti that’s been blighting London and other cities for at least 40 years? Blimey, I wish I could have used that excuse for not going into work when I used to commute …

131709 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to kh1485, 2, #579 of 1090 🔗

I remember Peter Simple describing the work of the Master of Paddington. Come to think of it, I remember the work of the Master of Paddington

FAR AWAY IS CLOSE AT HAND IN IMAGES OF ELSEWHERE

I found it inspiring …

131724 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Tenchy, 2, #580 of 1090 🔗

Sadiq Khan said something to the effect a little while ago, not long after it was announced that knife crime:up; robberies:up; 6-700 acid attacks per year.. but Khan wants to get to the nitty gritty – it’s all because of those “racist murals”.

131770 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 1, #581 of 1090 🔗

It’s all them aerosols wot dunnit.

131819 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to Tenchy, 1, #582 of 1090 🔗

Also it’s too expensive and my employer won’t let us come back to the office, which is the main (or only) reason I’d use the train.

132084 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tenchy, 1, #583 of 1090 🔗

Really??

Maybe I should use that as an excuse to avoid going to work. That said I will be laughed out of the office and handed my P45.

What a nincompoop!

131672 epythymy, replying to epythymy, 5, #584 of 1090 🔗

In the area where I live there have been consistently between 5 and 10 cases per week for weeks (months). Now that the schools have gone back there have been, this week alone, five schools in the local area with 1 or more positive cases. Could this be explained by the PCR test picking up other coronaviruses which cause the common cold? We all know that in September when the kids go back it’s snotty noses galore. Now, teachers and parents are panicking and getting their snotty kids tested and they’re positive. Where I live people haven’t been overly careful. Masks are not worn properly, pubs are heaving. Why would the opening of schools have this effect when pubs had none?

131686 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to epythymy, 6, #585 of 1090 🔗

Agree. Why do they test kids when it is clearly just a cold. The amount of money wasted on non value add things are massive.

The government paper mentions 3 symptoms but it seems as if school/parents only take a high temperature into account. I wonder if they all work on the same temperature 38 or anything lower?

131689 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Victoria, 2, #586 of 1090 🔗

Even if they test positive what does it actually prove or how is the person helped, as they aren’t rushed straight to hospital and given emergency medical treatment to rid them of “the rona”. Really identifying cases is meaningless.

131711 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to epythymy, #587 of 1090 🔗

Yes, that’s absolutely what is probably happening. There will be some kids who had the virus and may still have RNA fragments that will show positive but they will not be infectious. Also, because the common cold is also a coronavirus, the PCR test could come back positive, especially if the lab has set the amplification threshold high (over 35). This video has been posted before, but in it he talks about how other coronaviruses are likely being picked up by the PCR test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh6VnB7JvW0

131673 Tenchy, 2, #588 of 1090 🔗

Positive tests up again. The medico-fascists in charge of the country will be having an orgasm right now.

131675 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 7, #589 of 1090 🔗

My wife has just been allowed to visit her aunt, who is in a care home, for the first time since lockdown. Despite the fact that her aunt has dementia and is hard of hearing, they still forced my wife to wear a face covering, making interaction even more difficult than it would have been anyway. They were already outside and sitting two metres apart.

131859 ▶▶ annie, replying to mattghg, #590 of 1090 🔗

How can people be so foul?

131676 mjr, replying to mjr, 7, #591 of 1090 🔗

Coronavirus in Africa: Explaining the bogus ‘viral blockers’ worn by some politicians
Courtesy of our wonderful BBC..

I thought it would be an article about masks .
But it is not .. Apparently people wear bleach impregnated no entry signs. Which are probably as effective as masks.

131701 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 4, #592 of 1090 🔗

further comment on BBC. There was also a page on animal extinction . (following the Attenborough propaganda).,
A lot of comments about human population growth and need to reduce the population
I added a comment “A lot of people have commented about the population being too high. I assume they will do the noble thing and take the first steps themselves”.
Comment was blocked. Interesting to see the email i got

“Unfortunately we’ve had to remove the content below because it contravened one of our House Rules.Your comment was considered to have broken the following House Rule:
“We reserve the right to fail comments which…
Are considered likely to disrupt, provoke, attack or offend others
Are racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit, abusive or otherwise objectionable
Contain swear words or other language likely to offend””

For those that have always wondered what drives the BBC this is their house rules

Doubt if many of the comments on lockdown sceptics would get past these rules (and the way the BBC interprets them!)

131716 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to mjr, 1, #593 of 1090 🔗

Almost everything posted on BBC comments offends me

Offends others = offends people who think like people who work for the BBC

131768 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to mjr, #594 of 1090 🔗

oh I don’t know the figures for Africa are negligible-maybe they should send some viral blockers to Oceania

131679 Basics, replying to Basics, 19, #595 of 1090 🔗

Rant.
Scottish Mafia have realease their new improved covid fairy tale numbers. Oh, by n by they lopped 200+ off the in hospital stats because they had been dishonestly fiddling the figures and quite frankly fucking over the public with their bullshit numbers. Why believe these now? Crooks scammers and viscious souls the lot of them. Any one who thinks they belong in holyrood ought to be ashamed, eithrr side of the cess pit.

I laugh at your pompous self indulgent seriousness niccerla. You need to go.

Scottish numbers: 15 September 2020
267 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 3.6% of newly tested individuals (may not reflect the total number of new cases*).
1 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
6** people were in intensive care last night with recently confirmed COVID-19.
48** people were in hospital with recently confirmed COVID-19.
17,074 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results (may not reflect the total number of new tests*).
* The data reported today may be incomplete as a result of a backlog of test results accumulated in the UK lab network. Work is underway to urgently address this issue.

** Due to the previous inclusion of people who are no longer being treated for COVID-19 in number of people in hospital, from today this is a new measure that only counts in-patients who have first tested positive for COVID-19 recently. An accompanying blog explaining the change has been published.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

I was telling this board about this figure fiddle months ago. Crap me. Me without a qualification in numbers nor a niche in highly paid government, nor anything that resembles raw data. This is not error or mistake this is long deliberate scheming by dirty grubby men and women.

200 deaths left in the figures to make it look bad as not fucker was dying – and no fucker woukd finished one or two off as was so dearly wanted by the rulers to make the figures look scarey.

40 in hospital. For months with an odd one or two deaths all summer.

Under 45 in Scotland 2 dead in total from Covid alone – as reported on desth certs. Trust is long gone from snp shit show.

How dare they rule our land?

131688 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Basics, 12, #596 of 1090 🔗

Professor Heneghan has been a beacon of light and truth in this whole sorry fiasco.

131801 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #597 of 1090 🔗

Interesting thing to me was they are claiming in the explanation at https://blogs.gov.scot/statistics/2020/09/15/counting-people-in-hospital-with-covid-19/ that they have known there was a problem with figures since 26th August but only admitted it after the Prof queried it on 2nd Sept so she stood up for several days and read out figures she knew were inaccurate (by more than 80%!) and said nothing. Absolutely shocking.

131916 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to dpj, 1, #598 of 1090 🔗

It was noticed long before. And the journalist acted as though all was good.

131952 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to dpj, #599 of 1090 🔗

If there was a valid opposition they’d pounce on just that sort of thing.

131703 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #600 of 1090 🔗

200 people lopped off – 200 people recovered and no nhs press release no political celebration.. nothing.

To be clear everyone knows more about this than me. But I was saying after using my head that the long term hispital cases had probably recovered but remained in hospital with real long term issues. This is the case.

Reading/inferring into that senario, covid19 infections have been overcome in 200 instances where patients have had serious other health issues. This is quite a thing to keep quiet.

Apologies for my rant. I am pissed off. As we all are.

131805 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Basics, 2, #601 of 1090 🔗

They added the * next to patients and how they would update the numbers 10-14 days ago. they FINALLY managed to get the “correct” numbers!!
Fucking 2 weeks??? Did one person physically go around all he hospitals and interviewed every patient?

131921 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Silke David, #602 of 1090 🔗

It’s about keeping the numbers high, they needed the test cases to bulk up before they corrected the hospital bed numbers.

131681 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 27, #603 of 1090 🔗

I had a free coffee voucher from Paul’s which was expiring tomorrow so I decided to take myself to Central London where I redeemed my voucher and even got two slices of cake for Mr Bart and myself. I was unmuzzled but staff served me without any questions, in fact no-one was muzzled.

Took coffee to a nice square and had a relaxing time with my drink and book. On the way back I walked past Waterstones, a branch which had a second hand book section, I didn’t go inside but they had some books outside, one caught my attention and I bought it since it was very cheap and it was my specialisation.

Looks like Waterstones have done a partial U turn as I could see no arrows, no social distancing stickers and if there was any hand sanitiser then I couldn’t see it. Best of all was a sign saying that they also welcomed people who didn’t wear masks.

Taking my book inside to pay, the guy behind the till took my book and had no qualms as well about taking my loyalty card as well to scan it. Although he was muzzled, we had a nice chat where he said that they have been quiet but are hoping that when universities open they will have more customers than usual.

Ended my walk to Lidl to pick up a few things – it was fairly busy and a few customers and some staff were not wearing masks.

Perhaps the tide is indeed turning and many businesses are now quietly dropping the “Covid safety” measures.

Well one can hope.

131693 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #604 of 1090 🔗

A nice day out. Hopefully not pure luck that signs of insanity were few and far between.

At school pickup one mother said to me that she was coming round to my point of view on it all. She looked knackered and fed up. I said it was a mental illness not a virus. She agreed.

Even the ‘sensible middle’ who followed the measures hitherto are now showing the strain after such a long period of restrictions and now the ‘six’ nonsense.

If the middle cracks, there could be hope…

131698 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jhfreedom, 14, #605 of 1090 🔗

I think that mother is pretty much articulating what many people are thinking especially if they’re noticing as well that the narrative is falling apart and while they know of people who have lost their jobs or died or are suffering from untreated illnesses they don’t know of anyone who has had the virus much less died from it.

The “six” nonsense could be the tipping point as is furlough ending soon.

131695 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #606 of 1090 🔗

I feel hopeful too. Yesterday I visited the dentist (said no to mask and having my temp taken by forehead ‘gun’) no issues there. Today went into several shops and also had no issues/comments/people asking me to put a mask on. Maybe, just maybe things are looking up? Can we hope ?

131706 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to watashi, 9, #607 of 1090 🔗

I think we can. Perhaps more and more people are getting fed up and businesses are also waking up to the fact that treating potential customers as biohazards won’t result into a sale and even alienate them for life.

131700 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Bart Simpson, 27, #608 of 1090 🔗

I read your report and thought, “Oh, how lovely!” Then it occurred to me how ridiculous this situation is that simply writing about going into a coffee shop and buying something without incident is some kind of victory. Can you even imagine posting such a thing 7 months ago? Among all the insanities, this one irritates me the most — that boring, simple errands have now become an obstacle course and so fraught. In the old days going into a store and buying food for dinner was something we didn’t even give a second thought to, let alone something we’d report on! Please don’t get me wrong — I love reading about these experiences of normalcy, I just can’t help shaking my head about how insane it all is. I’m totally jealous as well — I almost had such an experience last week, but it’s pretty much unheard of here as compliance is 100%.

131702 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 6, #609 of 1090 🔗

I was just about to compose a very similar reply!

131714 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #610 of 1090 🔗

I agree. At the best of times shopping can be stressful but even more so now and that’s why boycotting has been my default position. I don’t want to put up with this insanity but equally I do from time to time engage in a little bit of guerilla warfare – go into a few stores unmuzzled and see what they will do.

I also think its reaching the point where even shop staff are becoming demoralised and fed up as well. I do sympathise with them as I work in the heritage sector and more or less are in the same boat with them with our dire visitor numbers.

131948 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #611 of 1090 🔗

Never been a huge fan of shopping myself. But would enjoy taking my kids in and spoil them with a toy, ice cream, see what’s on around. Not now. I take them to the local parks and forests/beaches. I will not have myself or them in masks.

132014 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #612 of 1090 🔗

Agree. I don’t really love shopping but love browsing through bookshops. However during this insanity, I have been giving them the wide berth and vowed never to return until we return to how it was in February 2020!

131721 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #613 of 1090 🔗

Went to a national tyre centre to get a puncture repaired. Got asked by a Member of staff who was a grumpy git around 60’s if I had a mask and when I said I was exempt said ‘have you got proof?’. At which point I was about to show him a clenched fist, but said ‘yes!’ and he stomped off. The manager appeared (unmasked) and from then on everything went perfectly amiable. Sorry folks, I’m not seeing any let up in Covid panic compliance idiocy yet!

131745 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Alan P, 5, #614 of 1090 🔗

Seems to vary from place to place. Central London is pretty much a ghost town and I suspect the partial U turns from shops are down to the desire to make any sale no matter how derisory especially if they don’t want to go under.

131776 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Alan P, 8, #615 of 1090 🔗

It seems that the 15-30 are compliant as they don’t know any better and have been taught not to question but don’t confront you but just let you get on with it.

That reasonably affluent, mostly educated 60-70 age people seem to be the most scared and the ones who will challenge, say it about “their safety”, mutter at you and make snide comments behind your back but not really openly challenge you and back off when confronted.

This is also the post-war group that started the mollycoddling of kids and so on (I know, not all of them and not those on here etc but generally) and had it all (figuratively speaking) of good pensions, reasonably secure jobs for life, worthwhile careers, decent health care, affordable housing, the start of all the modern gadgets, easier international travel and so on – the me me me generation I think of these and these are the ones who will be the snitches and so on.

131800 ▶▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #616 of 1090 🔗

I agree. I live in a village in an area where there are many that fit this latter description. They have nice big houses, are retired on a comfortable pension and get their weekly online Waitrose shop and they treat these restrictive measures as a slight inconvenience no more. They are still after 6 months turning into bushes and flinching when you walk past them and 100% mask compliance. I don’t trust any of them to not snitch when it comes to the rule of 6 and even felt the twitching curtains last March when goodness I went for 3 walks and not just 1. Wonder how they will feel when they can’t get their op any time soon, their pension pot has gone down, it’s too cold and damp to prune their roses all day long, they can’t get to their bridge class due to more than 6 and can’t see all of their grandchildren for Xmas lunch etc. And oh heck they can’t get to go on any of their 5 holidays/year abroad without having to quarantine on arrival and return. I don’t mean to sound bitter but they do seem to be very brainwashed and very selfish.

131831 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Suzyv, 5, #617 of 1090 🔗

I have been having very similar thoughts to you both. I know we shouldn’t generalise but it really does seem like suburban/rural ‘baby boomers’ (our generation) are the worst offenders. It’s as if they’re almost enjoying all this – why not, they have hardly been put-out, as you say. Not yet.

We’ve had it all, all our lives, many of us, and now with so many of this age-group on fat pensions, we have the luxury of indulging our fear and specialness by cowering away from a virus which seems to be less serious than bad flu and, of course, embracing masks and snitch culture to do our bit for society.

I don’t blame the kids, either. They are the product of the creeping infantalisation, obsession with safety and dumbing-down of society which has gone on for decades now.

The enlightenment for the ‘victims of comfort’ is going to come at a very heavy price – for everyone. And contrast their attitudes with people slightly younger, or even quite elderly, who are still at work. They are much more sceptical and tearing their hair out trying to keep small businesses going or already facing redundancy.

AG and I have always been out-of-step with our peers, often accused of being ‘Communists’ (we’ve never even supported Labour) and now it seems we’re far-right conspiracy theorists. It is not comfortable – never has been – but we are cursed with an inability to bury our heads. MW

132079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #618 of 1090 🔗

Agree with the three of you. The attitudes you describe I witness them first hand with many of my work colleagues of that age group – they seem sympathetic with my predicament (difficulty over lockdown due to living in a not so good area) or why I don’t wear a mask in my face but their real attitudes come out on social media

I also encounter the same attitudes in surprise, surprise supermarkets like M&S and Waitrose. I’ve caught a few of these boomer lockdownistas tutting or glaring at me and I usually fight back by staring back at them or in the case of one tosser calling him a “wanker” and telling him to mind his own business. I notice that that they don’t expect someone like me who is a BAME and a woman to fight back much less swear at them and they shrink back.

In the end I won’t trust any of them. The culture I come from always valued seniority and old age but I’m sorry to say, many of today’s boomers don’t deserve respect much less reverence. They will get their comeuppance at one point and I shan’t feel sorry for them.

132128 ▶▶▶▶▶ Graham, replying to Suzyv, 6, #619 of 1090 🔗

I am well off and haven’t suffered much from the lockdown at all; well, apart from my daughter’s graduation ceremony being cancelled. I work from home, have a big house and a beautiful garden, and my investments have gone up. So I ought to be a smug git. But I am continually depressed and seething with rage. It’s the feeling of the ground collapsing beneath my feet; the old idea that I lived in a free country and an efficient and generally sensible country has been destroyed. I haven’t worn a mask yet and unless forced I never will.

132221 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Suzyv, #620 of 1090 🔗

I knew a lady like that once.. Had r oom for a pony. Bucket she called herself. 🙂

132134 ▶▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #621 of 1090 🔗

Sadly I fit bang in the middle of your 60-70 group, around here it’s those much younger than me that jump into bushes. I even had a young mum and two children (one in a pushchair) play with the 4×4’s in the road to avoid me when cutting the grass.

131863 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Alan P, 1, #622 of 1090 🔗

They’re known as kwikshit for a reason

Assuming it’s them of course

You’re best off with an indie. We have a few who will visit in a van, repair a puncture & balance if necssary. Think i paid 35 quid last time

131849 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #623 of 1090 🔗

Always great to hear such stories!

132009 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #624 of 1090 🔗

Thanks Annie. I had a good day today over all 🙂

131694 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #625 of 1090 🔗
131717 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, 7, #626 of 1090 🔗

LOL!

No one wins the Booker prize because of who they are. A book wins because of what it does,” said Gaby Wood, literary director of the Booker Prize Foundation as the shortlist was announced .

Yes, yes, of course they don’t Ms Wood. It’s just that straight white males are shit at writing, that’s the only possible reason why there should be not a single one on your shortlist.

The alternative – that Booker judges and procedures are flat out prejudiced against them, is just unthinkable, after all. Well, admitting it is unthinkable, doubtless there are plenty who know it’s the case and just assume that’s how it should be, for the greater good.

131723 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, 3, #627 of 1090 🔗

there is a white male… Douglas Stewart…. and a book about a kid growing up in poverty in glasgow …
But that as sure as anything isnt going to win .
Selection of other subjects “ The topics covered by the six nominees are wide-ranging, including stories about climate change, the hardship of life in Zimbabwe, dementia, and the women soldiers of 1935 Ethiopia.”

131735 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to mjr, 4, #628 of 1090 🔗

Real page-turners then!

131748 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, 1, #629 of 1090 🔗

Presumably Stuart is acceptable because he’s gay , and most likely his stuff also fits the lefty cultural and political profile.

131764 ▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Mark, #630 of 1090 🔗

Don’t forget working class

131796 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to crimsonpirate, 3, #631 of 1090 🔗

Working class is not really a woke plus point. It still wins old school lefty support, but those guys are irrelevant these days. It’s all about the race, gender and sexual behaviour points.

For the woke, there’s almost nothing worse than a white, straight working class man. Almost certainly an ignorant, racist brexiteer thug.

132033 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, 3, #632 of 1090 🔗

the metropolitan lefties hate the working class. remember Thornberry and her white van man comments or Brown and his bigoted woman. And of course they hate them even more when some had the audacity to vote for Brexit and vote conservative

131928 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to mjr, 2, #633 of 1090 🔗

It’s OK I think he’s gay.

131743 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, 3, #634 of 1090 🔗

All part of the ongoing ruthless, prejudiced anti-white, anti-male purge in the woke sections of our society:

Kevin O’Sullivan: “The sacking of Sue Barker is racist, sexist and ageist”

131841 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Tenchy, #635 of 1090 🔗

Well, I wouldn’t let any of them babysit my kids (If I had any) ;-(

131707 MizakeTheMizan, 2, #636 of 1090 🔗

I’m now two weeks past thinking, or hoping, that this shambles is down to incompetence.

I wish I could cling on to that hope, but it just doesn’t make sense now.

Occam’s razor

131713 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #637 of 1090 🔗

More on the Pennsylvania ruling in today’s round up. Let’s hope Simon Dolan makes the judge aware of this happening in the US:

Federal Court Holds “Stay-at-Home” Orders and Mandatory Business Closures Unconstitutional

Maybe, just maybe similar could happen here?

131725 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Sarigan, 2, #638 of 1090 🔗

Brilliant analysis and very well written

131729 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, 7, #639 of 1090 🔗

It’s a very strong statement from the judge

I imagine it will be appealed

I wonder if it might get to the Supreme Court

One does indeed hope the UK judges take some courage from it

Sumption certainly seems to think the case is strong that the 1984 act does not confer the powers that the government has used

131799 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 1, #640 of 1090 🔗

Sumption’s words were aimed at the supreme court, I would suggest.

131722 Bella, replying to Bella, 11, #641 of 1090 🔗

Anyone else had trouble cancelling their TV Licence under protest at the BBC’s coverage of this shit show? After six emails over six weeks telling them I was cancelling with nothing but automatic replies in return I cancelled my direct debit.Within a day of my bank telling them I had cancelled my DD they sent me a letter instructing me to reinstate it or tell them I didn’t need to. So I reluctantly phoned their number, went through a ridiculous rigmarole talking with a robot for what seemed like ages only to be told at the END of the call they they couldn’t take it. They could have told me that at the beginning. I know it’s Capita and not the BBC but they are contracted by the BBC and I’m sure the BBC instruct them to make it as difficult as possible to cancel. Or was it spite because I told them their Covid coverage stank? Suppose I’m due for endless threatening letters now. They ain’t getting my money ever again.

131732 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 3, #642 of 1090 🔗

I made that phone call and, as you say, it was bloody infuriating to listen to that blasted message for ages and then be cut off.

I cancelled mine back in mid June and it took about 2 months to get my money back. On their website there is a form that you have to print off (I don’t think you can do it online) and complete to confirm that you don’t need a licence. Once they have that, they send you an e-mail to say they won’t bother you for two years.

131736 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Bella, 2, #643 of 1090 🔗

the cancelled DDI notification from the bank would generate an auto response from Capita. Problem is your emails also just generate auto responses. They are not going to read the email and then contact you to plead that you dont cancel.
You have done your bit , And stopped the DDM so just now wait for the warning letters which you can happily ignore

131737 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, 11, #644 of 1090 🔗

Welcome to the club! It’s loads of fun, not having a TV. We gave ours up in about 2005 – probably one of the reasons I’m writing on here and not cowering under my bed in a mask – and we used to go through the hoops of letting Crapita know we don’t have a TV. Then we found out it only lasts for 2 years before it all starts up again.

We haven’t bothered for years and we have become experts on the fear-cycle Crapita uses to intimidate you via its monthly letters. I think there are about 6 levels, starting with a fairly bland ‘there’s no record of a TV Licence at x address’, culminating in ‘What to Expect in Court’, printed melodramatically in red. We’ve had 2 visits in 15 years and we just told them to go away. We can laugh but it’s not funny if you’re on your own and broke. MW

131742 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Bella, 4, #645 of 1090 🔗

Best decision my wife and I ever made was not to bother with television when we moved into our new home after we got married. Not missed if at all.

131756 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bella, #646 of 1090 🔗

Make sure you serve a WOIRA on them:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5343824/woira-standard-letter

You can do it by email.

131773 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Bella, 1, #647 of 1090 🔗

I tried cancelling mine in July. First I tried filling out the online form here:
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/no-licence-needed/about.app

but it said I have a license so cannot declare that I don’t need one. It said to contact them to cancel the licence. Did that, which resulted in an automated acknowledgement, but nothing else. Site above still said I have a license.

I read that if you follow the rules (don’t watch any live broadcasts and don’t use BBC iPlayer) then you can just cancel DD. Did that, which got them noticing and they sent an email to say I need to reinstate the DD in order to cancel it (WTF?)

Now I’ve just ignored it. Site at the top still won’t let me declare that I don’t need one. Not sure what happens next, ball’s in their court I suppose?

131856 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Bella, 2, #648 of 1090 🔗

My tv licence ran out in July and I completed an on-line declaration form to say I formally agree to not watch any live tv or BBC IPlayer. Then I got a confirmation to say it had been accepted, and they would contact me in couple of years to see if my situation had changed. And that was it. As I paid the licence as a one off payment last year, there was no DD to worry about. Seems like many people have had enough and its messed up its admin, big time!

131864 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to HelenaHancart, #649 of 1090 🔗

Yes – just saw this headline that they’ve lost 250,000 licence payers:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/bbc-licence-fee-paid-by-250-000-fewer-people-0xtqb7wpd

131728 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #650 of 1090 🔗

I’ve seen a few people now claiming that Sweden did in fact lockdown albeit voluntarily. The argument thus far has been that Sweden did nothing and therefore sacrificed their elderly. In order to explain the current situation in Sweden the narrative has now changed to one where Sweden did in fact do something.

This takes us back to an argument I was making as things were developing. The claim was that the UK was saving/saved lives based on the modelling. Similar modelling on Sweden predicted tens of thousands of deaths. My argument was simply if the UK saved lives based on the modelling then Sweden must also have saved lives based on the modelling.

I can now thus declare Sweden successful in saving tens of thousands of lives regardless of whether they are considered as having done nothing or something.

131755 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #651 of 1090 🔗

The Sweden argument has constantly changed because it’s an awkward little carbuncle on the lockdown policy that they can’t get rid of. They started by saying it was a dangerous uncaring experiment (The Guardian even accused it of being fascist if I remember rightly). They have gone from criticising it to ignoring it to arguing that they actually did lock down and now we’re getting the argument that the policy wouldn’t work here because we’re a different kind of people. It’s desperate stuff all because the success of the Swedish approach is now almost incontrovertible. Next they’ll be saying it only worked because of a particular gene in blonde haired people.

131760 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Achilles, 2, #652 of 1090 🔗

Here’s a link to The Guardian article I was referring to. Hasn’t aged well.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/26/swedish-exceptionalism-coronavirus-covid19-death-toll

131785 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, 1, #653 of 1090 🔗

It hasn’t aged well.

131780 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, 5, #654 of 1090 🔗

Always fun to tweak the zealots’ noses with Sweden. They absolutely hate it, lol.

131772 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #655 of 1090 🔗

You can. I compiled this weeks ago for a similar argument, but have updated the deaths numbers. This is using the MODELLING NUMBERS.

Sweden: population 10.28 million, predicted deaths 96,000, actual deaths 5,851. Sweden did nothing, or made very few interventions which has saved 90,149 lives, or 0.88% of the total population.

The UK: population 66.65 million, predicted deaths 510,000, actual deaths 41,637. UK had a full lockdown and has continued with a suppression policy since. Lives saved 468,363, which equates to 0.7% of the population.

Sweden saved a greater proportion of its population with few interventions, compared to the UK with lots of interventions.

QED.

131837 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #656 of 1090 🔗

Some will argue that they distanced a lot, travel went right down, they worked from home etc. Probably all true, but nothing like what we had here and almost 100% voluntary. And no masks, no rule of six, etc. Totally different in the effect on society and life.

131854 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Julian, 2, #657 of 1090 🔗

And all schools up to age 16 remained open throughout.
They simply employed sensible pragmatic social distancing, with all measures voluntary (except the crowd limit size, which I think was 50 at one point, now returning to 500).

132289 ▶▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Kevin 2, #658 of 1090 🔗

Wash yer hands a bit more, don t lick any doorknobs and you ll be fine.

131731 Chris79, replying to Chris79, 10, #659 of 1090 🔗

This is my first post here and like all of you I am getting increasingly frustrated with this whole thing. Thank goodness for this page as earlier on during this I thought I was alone. I mentioned at a work meeting in March as we were all about to be sent home I was more fearful of the government response than of the illness itself. Treated as a madman!

One of the main irritants, as Toby mentions is the reporting of “cases” by the media, and on the gov.uk website. I have sent a feedback email ( coronavirus-tracker@phe.gov.uk ) asking them to add a graph showing the percentage of positive test results versus tests carried out, clearly and simply on their website. I doubt I will get a response or will be fobbed off.

131814 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Chris79, 6, #660 of 1090 🔗

keep bombarding them! I have been treated like a madman for 20 years mate, doesn’t bother me in the slightest, in fact, from a moron, I take it as a compliment!

Just remember what Mark Twain said about arguing with stupid people and you/’ll be alright.

Welcome to the Human Race 🙂

131846 ▶▶ annie, replying to Chris79, 2, #661 of 1090 🔗

Welcome to sanity! Do anything you can – it all counts.

131959 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Chris79, 3, #662 of 1090 🔗

Welcome aboard.

I doubt I will get a response or will be fobbed off.

And welcome to the Club. Most people posting here writing to their MPs et al. have been used to this for months now. In fact, I don’t recall anyone on this site ever posting a useful reply from an MP.

132087 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Chris79, #663 of 1090 🔗

Welcome to this oasis of sanity and rationality.

I doubt I will get a response or will be fobbed off.

Not just with government bodies but sometimes with institutions and businesses as well.

131740 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, #664 of 1090 🔗

Whilst we know that the figure for hospital cases is dubious due to some recording of test results pending, nonetheless on the web-site https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Total UK Covid19 hospital cases have gone up by 98 to 972 and the number on ventilators has gone up by 27 from 79 to 106
Doubtless this be trumpeted by the media as the start of the apocalypse, I guess time will tell?

131744 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #665 of 1090 🔗

Has the overall number of people on ventilators gone up?

Just by increasing testing, and increasing ‘positive’ cases, alone will result in more people on ventilators that tested ‘positive’ within the last 28 days.

Increasing testing creates a self-fulfilling narrative.

131761 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to MizakeTheMizan, #666 of 1090 🔗

The figures on the web site https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ are in theory all pillar 1 test results i.e. medically diagnosed cases confirmed by testing. Although we do know that the Welsh data is compromised by including some tests pending figures!

The UK published figures say that the number on ventilators has gone up by 27 from 79 to 106, I have no means of verifying these figures.

131888 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steve Martindale, #667 of 1090 🔗

>>>The UK published figures say that the number on ventilators has gone up by 27 from 79 to 106,<<

In what time span?- a week?

131927 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ned of the Hills, #668 of 1090 🔗

The published number on ventilators was 79 on Saturday, Sunday & Monday but has jumped to 106 on Tuesday, I suspect a lag in information supply over the weekend. My concern is that the media will jump on this as justification for latest measures. Given that the UK population is 66.65 million we are talking tiny fractions but in the current febrile atmosphere the media and the public will see this as Armageddon.

132384 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steve Martindale, #669 of 1090 🔗

Much thanks for that clarification.

I fear now there will be an upturn in mortality figures – but nothing like the numbers registered in April, but enough to keep anxiety levels constantly stoked.

131793 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 5, #670 of 1090 🔗

Putting people on ventilators is the worst thing that they could do.

132066 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to p02099003, 2, #671 of 1090 🔗

And we should have an HCQ type treatment for early intervention or prophylactic use.

131758 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #672 of 1090 🔗

I saw that and it’s worrying. What would be useful to know is if there are underlying health conditions in those in hospital and on ventilators. But either way, anything other than just increased number of positive tests is going to cause problems in that they will definitely use it as evidence that the cautious approach is vindicated

131765 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, #673 of 1090 🔗

Sorry maths error, the increase in cases was 88 (not 98!) it went up from 884 to 972!

131792 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #674 of 1090 🔗

That includes the pre- revised Scots figures though the increase is focussed in England. There has been a big rise in Pillar One testing in the last week, so rise in Covid hospital admissions is to be expected if false positives are included, which I think they are.

131848 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Steve Martindale, #675 of 1090 🔗

I suppose all case mortality is the important number – week ending 4th September was 15.7% below 5 year average but did include a bank holiday. Seems to be about a 2 week lag on these figures.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending4september2020

131753 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 20, #676 of 1090 🔗

Awesome

Public Health Wales accidentally uploaded the personal details of all 18,105 people who had tested positive for Covid-19 in the country to a public server on 30 August.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/public-health-wales-data-breach-coronavirus-patients/

And we’re expected to trust that the Government’s “moonshot” masterplan to capture everyone’s data every day will be perfectly secure. Another reason why that’s the stupidest idea in the history of stupid ideas.

131766 ▶▶ Basics, replying to zacaway, 8, #677 of 1090 🔗

There are going to be a lot of pub quiz questions about events in 2020 when we win through and return to our pub quiz lifestyles.

131763 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #678 of 1090 🔗

Zerohedge has news that gates is now questioning FDC professionalism and whether THEY can be trusted with the vaccines.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/bill-gates-slams-fda-questions-whether-fda-can-be-trusted-covid-19-vaccine

I wonder if my view that these people are panicking as their plan derails is naive.

131842 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, 7, #679 of 1090 🔗

Imo, this is all to do with with Scott Atlas being drafted on to Trump’s taskforce. Atlas is anti-lockdown (and is now getting vilified by everybody except Fox News). And the FDA are saying they will not approve any vaccine candidate without proper safety and efficacy data. And Trump, I believe is stepping back from any pledge for a vaccine by the time of the US election. None of this will please Bill Gates.

131890 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #680 of 1090 🔗

Thanks for interesting insight. It feels ‘political’ if a private lunatic and a health watchdog can be political. The reason it feels political is that there doesn’t seem to be an identifiable outcome to the deliberate choice to criticise.

Really interesting to think there might be some proactive counter going on in Washington.

132045 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, 3, #681 of 1090 🔗

It’s pretty clear to me that the MHRA will railroad through the authorisation to use AZ1222 (Oxford vaccine) if they possibly can, so there are no proper checks and balances at the UK end. The FDA commisioner Stephen Hahn is a fairly recent Trump appointee, who may just have an ounce of integrity and backbone. I hope so. He has consistently stated that no vaccine candidate will be approved by the FDA unless it has a good safety profile and at least 50% efficacy. (Though 50% is a low bar considering our own immune systems run at 90% or above!)
I think the recent pledge by the vaccine manufacturers not to cut corners didn’t come without some pressure, probably from the FDA.
I’m no apologist for Trump, but the other lot frighten me much more.

Scott Atlas is a beacon of sanity, which will never come from the CDC.
See this video:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkG6PslTIyE&ab_channel=SupervisorJimDesmond

131911 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #682 of 1090 🔗

Absolutely this. Everything needs to viewed through the lens of the forthcoming election

131769 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, #683 of 1090 🔗

Believe it or not, there are countries without coronavirus,
let’s have a look and see which ones they are!
(Updated: 14th September 2020)

https://koryogroup.com/blog/are-there-countries-without-coronavirus

131804 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to 2 pence, 14, #684 of 1090 🔗

North Korea is Covid free. Shame. I would never go there. They would lock all their citizens in their houses even if they were not sick. I would guarantee that they would close down any form of nice things, like pubs or cinemas or those flea pit bowling alleys. I can imagine that they would even have the brass neck to split up families, ban any form of gathering over a certain number and even go as far as controlling the media and blaming you for killing your Nan. They might even introduce pointless bubbles and screens in every public place just for theatre.

That’s why I won’t go to North Korea and I will be staying here in the good old U.K. safely mingling with my family.

131847 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Leemc23, 9, #685 of 1090 🔗

We may be unhappy, but our mastery of satire is coming along very nicely.

131778 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #686 of 1090 🔗

So – there are no tests available on the website, anywhere.

Another triumph for the Quangocracy and the TalkTalk Harding woman – another who was promoted out of the way, and then dug up for further failures on the public payroll. Doesn’t matter. She’s one of THEM.

At least they’re not finding as many false positives and people with traces of the virus but not the disease to beat us over the head with and lock us up. Not that no evidence has ever stopped the buggers.

131808 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #687 of 1090 🔗

What honour about Baroness can Dildo Harding be given as reward ?

131865 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to James Leary #KBF, #688 of 1090 🔗

I wonder if this is an attempt at winding down the “casedemic”, though this is probably wishful thinking.

131871 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Drawde927, 1, #689 of 1090 🔗

A sudden drop in positive tests will convince no one of anything, given how much publicity the lack of availability has had.

131783 davews, replying to davews, 7, #690 of 1090 🔗

A lovely day out in Reading taking part in one of Terry’s Reading Walkabouts. This should have been a group of 10 of us plus Terry though under the new rules he had to reduce it to 5. A couple more turned up who hadn’t got the message of the reduction. At first he said ‘you can join us but keep your distance so you don’t look to be one of us’ but then another couple dropped out for some reason so they could join us normally. Phone number required on the sign in sheet but he had all our contact details anyway.

Observing how people use their masks was an eye opener. One lady on the group took her mask off after she arrived then clutched it firmly in her sweaty hand the whole of the next two hours. On the street it seemed the norm for people to carry mask in hand then of course touch it repeatedly when on. Another mask was seen to fall on the pavement then picked up and put in her handbag. How on earth it reduces the spread escapes me…

Lunch afterwards at Sweeny Todd, a Reading classic pie shop. Apart from having to give an acceptable name and phone number for them to write in a diary it was virtually normal, not a mask in sight apart from at the take away pie counter. But the place was virtually empty compared with the busy hive of activity from previous visits.

131795 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to davews, 1, #691 of 1090 🔗

Two groups of 5 and some portable loud hailers should solve that

131809 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to crimsonpirate, #692 of 1090 🔗

Walkie Talkies would be fun!

131817 ▶▶ hat man, replying to davews, 3, #693 of 1090 🔗

Good to know there’s another sceptic in Berkshire. I was beginning to doubt it.

131876 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to hat man, 1, #694 of 1090 🔗

Me too – that makes 4 including Mr CGL. If we find another 2 we’ve got a full house.

131917 ▶▶▶▶ hat man, replying to CGL, #695 of 1090 🔗

if you’re on KBF we can make that happen!

131932 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to hat man, #696 of 1090 🔗

I have signed up but not really looked much on it. Been spending all my time on here.

131934 ▶▶▶▶▶ hat man, replying to hat man, 1, #697 of 1090 🔗

In fact with my OH too, we’re nearly there.

131996 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to CGL, 1, #698 of 1090 🔗

…me (as above) and my partner.

131995 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to hat man, #699 of 1090 🔗

I live in Berkshire.

131790 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 9, #700 of 1090 🔗

Meanwhile in the land of the sane.

https://www.thelocal.se/20200915/sweden-to-lift-ban-on-visits-to-elderly-care-homes

Sweden lifting bans on visits to elderly care homes.

131906 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sarigan, 3, #701 of 1090 🔗

And listening to the radio today the torture of the care homes continues with gusto here. Listeners calling into LBC crying they haven’t hugged their loved one in 6 months due to rules that both of them would gladly break to enjoy an embrace. This has been a daily occurance on Sheila Fogarty s show.

131791 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 8, #702 of 1090 🔗

I see there’s talk of a curfew ie shut the pubs at 10PM. Wouldn’t be surprised if this happens if only to show how tough the govt are being. The reality is round Earl’s Court all the pubs are shutting by 10 as there are no customers. Especially after any football on TV

131845 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #703 of 1090 🔗

I wonder if they will really go ahead with curfew, since (as pointed out by Nobody2020) the plan seems to be ban any non-commercial activity (socialising) but allow anything that involves spending. Curfew would kibosh the pubs (even more…) so perhaps they wont?

Or maybe we’ll only be allowed out after 10pm if we go to a pub and spend some minimum amount. Drink out to help out. But don’t go out just to visit friends & family at home.

131899 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to zacaway, 3, #704 of 1090 🔗

most free days I have I start drinking around 2

131794 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 9, #705 of 1090 🔗

Are the Belgian’s realising their mistake:

Top Belgian scientist calls for herd immunity coronavirus strategy

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/top-belgian-scientist-calls-for-herd-immunity-coronavirus-strategy-gxwqj887m

And in the lockdown-loving Times!

131812 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to zacaway, 6, #706 of 1090 🔗

This could be good news since the buffoon and Handjob are so keen on a curfew because it “worked” in Belgium. Except it won’t be good news, because suddenly Belgium will be dropped as an example and they’ll move onto somewhere more strict to follow – like Australia.

131813 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #707 of 1090 🔗

That Dr John geezer popped up on my YouTube again and was praising the gallantry of Victoria and how much the sacrifice of Melbourne is saving the whole of Australia. Then he went on to talk about some place in Derby that did the same for the plague, yeah like they are the same, guys well meaning but Christ he cannot adapt his opinions and sense of doom.

131866 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Leemc23, 5, #708 of 1090 🔗

the village of Eyam . When plague brought there they self isolated
Of course this was proper Bubonic Plague and not just a bad cold

131869 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to zacaway, 3, #709 of 1090 🔗

Is he actually in a position of authority/power to influence the government, though, or is he in the position of, for example, Carl Heneghan and Sunetra Gupta in the UK, consistently ignored by the decision-makers?

Still a fairly encouraging article, even the non-sceptic scientist was saying “Which rules do we really need? And which ones are less important?”

131889 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Drawde927, 1, #710 of 1090 🔗

Yes, just questioning orthodoxy is the first step!

131797 Matt The Cat, replying to Matt The Cat, 11, #711 of 1090 🔗

The piece on Costa at the (RNLI Quango-Sponsored) Lifeboat Quay is hilarious and, at the same time, deeply disturbing and Kafkaesque!
Don’t give these people your money. Vote with your feet and your pockets. Writing letters to MPs and Councillors is clearly achieving nothing! Boycots are the only way we can make a difference and finally get businesses to DO SOMETHING at last.

131836 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Matt The Cat, 13, #712 of 1090 🔗

Yep, at first I was all about saving the high street and small shops but the way I’ve been treated and spoken to by some of their power-crazy, dictatorial staff makes me want to tell them to shove it. You have to laugh at their empty shop/cafe/ pub… as they give you the third degree for not following a petty rule. It’s like they want their business to fail but I think many are too brainwashed to even realise that this could happen. So let them get on with it. It’s up to them to fight for their own survival – I tried to do my bit but they didn’t want to know!

131891 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Matt The Cat, 4, #713 of 1090 🔗

It’s the same at the two Costas at Teesside Park near Middlesbrough. They have queue managers berating people for not standing two metres apart. At one of the establishments you have to wait outside to be called in and place your order (nice when it’s raining). Half the tables are unavailable and all are swilled down with poison for each new customer. It really is a miserable experience. I don’t bother with Costa now.

131896 ▶▶ dorset dumpling, replying to Matt The Cat, 6, #714 of 1090 🔗

OH and I went down to West Bay on the Jurassic coast this morning. Several small shops had the same notice in the window: “Sorry, no mask, no entry”. Nothing about exemptions, unlike a café along the coast which clearly stated that being exempt from wearing a mask was OK. Unfortunately, none of the small shops were opening until at least 10am or I would have questioned them about their policy.

131798 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 3, #715 of 1090 🔗

In other news, just caught a bit on the radio saying some Government office has been caught with their pants down – NOT properly socially distancing in their office – those human bastards were just having a meeting less than 6 feet apart :-O

Expect they will all die from the corona now, just to prove the point.

131823 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to zacaway, 3, #716 of 1090 🔗

They won’t, but their Granny will…..that’s handycocks mantra. If there is no risk to you, you are a risk to everyone else…..dreadful.

132015 ▶▶ Bella, replying to zacaway, #717 of 1090 🔗

They were shagging on a desk. Not uncommon is parliamentary offices (I am told)

131802 tonys, replying to tonys, 15, #718 of 1090 🔗

Oh dear lord; You Gov’s daily poll (which I took part in) is showing 69% to some degree in favour of a 9pm curfew, my ‘strongly oppose’ managed 11%, with the ‘somewhat opposeds’ also managing 11%. Its mind blowing really what has been inflicted on people’s psyche’s and not a little bit scary.

131810 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to tonys, 6, #719 of 1090 🔗

Scary, but not surprising.

The concentration camp guard is in all of us. It’s usually suppressed. All it needs is something to trigger it

132183 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, #720 of 1090 🔗

Dark musings, Cecil. All of us ?

131816 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to tonys, 5, #721 of 1090 🔗

These morons deserve what’s coming to them.

131832 ▶▶ Julian, replying to tonys, 6, #722 of 1090 🔗

I simply don’t believe those figures. I am sure it’s too many, but never that high.

131839 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to tonys, 2, #723 of 1090 🔗

Is any stat on YouGov legit?

131853 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #724 of 1090 🔗

I would love to have the money to commission a proper poll on attitudes to this nonsense. I think it would be very revealing.

131872 ▶▶ mjr, replying to tonys, 3, #725 of 1090 🔗

as previously discussed, the daily poll is not controlled .. anyone can complete it as often as they wish so government support (77th Brigade) workers (or bots) can keep updating until the result shows the right figure … which is always in the 65-75% range so that it is slightly believable.

131874 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #726 of 1090 🔗

which seems to work for them and have the desired effect

131907 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to mjr, #727 of 1090 🔗

Also bear in mind that much depends on the terms of the question e.g “Would you agree that at 9pm curfew would be a good idea if it would save thousands of lives . . . “

131893 ▶▶ Will, replying to tonys, 4, #728 of 1090 🔗

As Janet Daley wisely observed in her article on Sunday, according to opinion polls we shouldn’t have seen the Tories win a single election in the past 20 years…

132003 ▶▶ Bella, replying to tonys, #729 of 1090 🔗

Bet no-one under the age of 50 takes part in those polls. Have any of them worked out what difference having a 9pm curfew would make except taking us further into martial law? Actually I think YouGov polls are propaganda. How do these nutters think a 9pm curfew is going to help the economy? It’ll destroy it again.

131806 Mark, replying to Mark, 19, #730 of 1090 🔗

A blast from the past. Worth rereading today, in the light of all that has happened since:

UK’s chief scientific adviser defends ‘herd immunity’ strategy for coronavirus
Defending Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s decision not to follow other European countries by closing schools and banning mass gatherings, Patrick Vallance said it was the government’s aim to “reduce the peak of the epidemic, pull it down and broaden it” while protecting the elderly and vulnerable.

But Sir Patrick told Sky News that experts estimated that about 60 per cent of the UK’s 66m population would have to contract coronavirus in order for society to build up immunity.

“Communities will become immune to it and that’s going to be an important part of controlling this longer term,” he said. “About 60 per cent is the sort of figure you need to get herd immunity.”

In another interview with the BBC, Sir Patrick said: “If you suppress something very, very hard, when you release those measures it bounces back and it bounces back at the wrong time.”

He added: “Our aim is to try to reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission, at the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it. ””

Where did it all go wrong? Well, here’s a clue:

On Friday morning the pressure on Mr Johnson and his scientific and medical advisers to take more drastic action more quickly grew when opposition leaders, including Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn, challenged England’s deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries and minister of care Helen Whately on why the UK was taking such a different approach to other countries.

An official with knowledge of the meeting said Ms Harries “came under sustained pressure” and “the meeting was quite fractious”.

They added: “It was difficult and lots of opposition MPs had a range of concerns with the government’s position.”

Mr Johnson’s decision on Thursday to introduce staged interventions — starting with asking people with a new cough or a temperature to self-isolate for seven days — has been criticised as too timid by politicians.

The prime minister is also under pressure because some neighbouring countries, including Ireland, France and Belgium, are taking much tougher measures, including banning sports fixtures. On Friday, England’s football authorities said all professional games were being postponed until April 3, including Premier League and Football League matches.

Jeremy Hunt, former health secretary, on Thursday led the attack against Mr Johnson, arguing that countries such as Thailand and Singapore, which have most successfully contained the coronavirus, had adopted stringent “social distancing” measures early on in the outbreak.

Johnson and those around him failed the test, but the opposition were among those pushing in the wrong direction.

Never forget. Never forgive.

131821 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Mark, 11, #731 of 1090 🔗

Thanks for sharing that. With everything we now know. If Vallance and Johnson (and Whitty) had just some fucking balls, then they could really have been hero’s of the western world. Johnson could actually have been what he wanted to be. And while the initial numbers would have bleed bad news, by now we would certainly be out of this cluster….so sad, they almost did not commit suicide.

131830 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Leemc23, 9, #732 of 1090 🔗

That’s my feeling about it now. If they had only stuck to their guns….

I think it’s true that Johnson had his chance to achieve his dream – he had his Churchill moment. If he’d been a man of the calibre required, he could have made it. He has only himself, and his own inadequacy, to blame.

I hope he comes to realise that before he dies.

131834 ▶▶▶▶ tonys, replying to Mark, 9, #733 of 1090 🔗

Johnson’s tragedy is to have been exposed as more Chamberlain than Churchill, with Hancock as his Lord Halifax. The tragedy for the rest of us is there is no Churchill waiting in the wilderness this time around.

131886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to tonys, 1, #734 of 1090 🔗

And strangely my reaction is that I doubt either Chamberlain or Halifax would have been so daft as to full into this rabbit hole.

131892 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to tonys, 3, #735 of 1090 🔗

There might be if Boris doesn’t develop a back bone by Bonfire night….

131858 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 4, #736 of 1090 🔗

Also, probably a legacy of Mother Theresa’s asinine contention that the Tories were the “nasty party”. Their terror of any bad headlines driving the rank incompetence.

131870 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 2, #737 of 1090 🔗

Indeed, and I have to suspect the hand of the weirdo Cummings in the application of that terror to this crisis.

131811 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #738 of 1090 🔗

It’s as if BJ has been in negotiations with the virus and come to arrangements as to when and where the virus will strike:
Even tribal Tories are baffled by the Rule of Six
https://unherd.com/thepost/even-tribal-tories-are-baffled-by-the-rule-of-six/

The view is that Johnson has decided to control the virus by reducing human interaction somewhere, and concluded that the most expendable interactions are those that don’t involve commercial exchange.

131827 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #739 of 1090 🔗

Yes, it’s the neutron bomb – kill people but not the economy. Bastards.

131833 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #740 of 1090 🔗

I’m not disagreeing with you at all and I think that all restrictions are ludicrous and should be lifted immediately, but I see what the government have done, and it’s a dilemma of their own making. They want to limit the spread of the virus (or be seen to limit it, given that it is dying away already) but they also can’t cripple the economy or education again like they did the first time around, so I assume their scientific advisors have told them to weigh up which interactions are most ‘valuable’, and they’ve come to the conclusion that the getting the economy moving again trumps normal social interaction where no transactions occur.

However, I personally disagree with this approach, as normal social interaction is just as important and beneficial as commercial and educational interactions. Hence why I think all restrictions are equally awful and should be lifted, I am just trying to rationalise the gov’s approach (if that’s even possible anymore!).

131883 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Poppy, 9, #741 of 1090 🔗

Why don’t they just sack the scientific advisers and get the likes of Heneghan, Gupta, Levitt etc who actually know what they are talking about to do the job instead. Tegnell must be at a loose end having sorted out Sweden so maybe he might fancy applying some common sense in the UK.

132012 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Poppy, 2, #742 of 1090 🔗

Some people think the government lockdowns are part of a conspiracy, so the question that arises is: “Why should this be so?” Is there any reason? There might be some things happening that just appear to benefit from there being a lockdown with a Behavioral Insights Team helping the BBC to scare the people shwitless. The danger of the disease is over-hyped and the government changes the rules to make it look as if many more people are dying from it than is actually the case. They then decant sick people into care homes where there is very little medical assistance and add all those that die there to the numbers dying from the disease. The mantra becomes that we can only relax the lockdown rules when a vaccine becomes available. Enter left, a philanthopist, who takes a great interest in these matters agrees to help chivvy this along if you can chip in a few million/billion pounds. He is a major funder of the entities in this field (WHO – 4.3 Billion, Imperial College – 280 Million, Oxford University – 243 Million, Prof. Chris Wittey – 40 Million, BBC Media Action – 53 Million, CDC – 155 Million, GAVI – 3 Billion, Johns Hopkins – 870 Million, NIH (Fauci) – 18 Million). The prime minister ponces around with world leaders and promises large sums of taxpayer money to the philanthopist’s favourite fund and directly to vaccine manufacturers so that we can all be vaccinated with an incompletely tested vaccine, one where all the ferrets died when exposed to the disease and for which the manufacturers have no liability if the vaccine kills or maims tens of thousands. Still, we have millions of syringes ready so they really must go ahead with vaccine production. They are training recruits too so that they can make sure everyone is protected. To ensure the populace is well informed, the philanthropist gives money to all the news outlets that will take it and so make sure they never hear the word Hydroxychloroquine. Hydroxychloroquine is banned for use with the disease in most western countries where the death rate is much higher than countries that used it prophylactically or in the early stages of the infection. It just so happens that the head of the centre for disease control in the United States has an interest in a competitor for treating the disease and produced false evidence to attempt to discredit HCQ. But this minor conflict of interest is not the main concern. It is that if the fact that HCQ treatments can be 100% effective in the early stages of the disease becomes universally known, then people will know that there is absolutely no need whatsoever for a vaccine. And the philanthropist is on record saying that he makes 20 times a much money from vaccines than anything else. So there you have it, no smoking guns.

132027 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #743 of 1090 🔗

Very well said!

131840 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #744 of 1090 🔗

It doesn’t really make all that much sense even from that point of view – large parts of the economy are driven by socialising. Pubs, clubs, entertainment in general, Halloween, Christmas, food & supplies for parties of all sorts (children or adults). Even getting people back into offices – what’s the point if you cannot interact with colleagues?

131873 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to zacaway, 4, #745 of 1090 🔗

It’s the very definition of society.

131818 matt, replying to matt, 9, #746 of 1090 🔗

Yes, it’s the Huffington Post
https://apple.news/Aq2tZuqMfTUe542SlTU_rsw
No, I don’t know why one of their news alerts popped up on my iPad.

But exactly what hallucinogens is David Nabarro taking?
“Covid-19 is “worse than any of the science fiction” about pandemics and “we’re still at the beginning” of the global crisis it has sparked”

The interesting thing is that all of the damage and destruction he’s talking about is not at all caused by the virus itself. Nonetheless, he seems to think that continuing it is justified.

131820 ▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 13, #747 of 1090 🔗

David Nabarro is a medical doctor who has made his career in the international civil service, working for either the Secretary-General of the United Nations or the Director-General of the World Health Organization.

Pretty clearly part of the problem.

131826 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 8, #748 of 1090 🔗

I don’t understand why people blindly trust the WHO – they are in the pandemic business – why would they want it to end?

We’re at the beginning of the global crisis the WHO has played a large part in sparking.

131862 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 6, #749 of 1090 🔗

It’s Authority, and many people just seem to defer to authority wherever they can find it.

Personally I’ve always regarded it as inherently illegitimate, part of the cancerous growth of the UN into a global quasi-governmental administration. The UN was fine for what it was set up as – a treaty talking shop to help resolve disputes between nations short of waging war. Unfortunately the UN has been used by the internationalists as a tool and stepping stone towards what they want. WHO is more political than medical, in reality. And almost as corrupt as UNESCO.

132198 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Julian, #750 of 1090 🔗

Agree – someone the other week said to me, well it’s the “World Health…[org]” so it must be the best source of info on world health… I replied did they expect to get the best info about the US Federal Government from “Federal” Express?? 🙂

131824 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #751 of 1090 🔗

Future pub quiz question

Q How many days did it take Baroness Harding to turn The Testing Program into Talk Talk?

132061 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cecil B, #752 of 1090 🔗

Hopefully she will tell us, when questioned by the Commons Science and Tech Committee live on parliamenttv on Thurs p.m.

131838 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 23, #753 of 1090 🔗

I really despair when I see some of the unadulterated bilge being puked up by so called “experts”. Just get a load of this tripe from another one of the Imperial College mob (The Telegraph live feed):

World still at beginning of Covid-19 pandemic, expert tells MPs

The world is still at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, and it will take some time to work out how to deal with it, an expert has told MPs.

David Nabarro, who is one of the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) special envoys on Covid-19, told the Foreign Affairs Committee the present situation is horrible and grotesque.

He said the outbreak is worse than any science fiction movie, and appears to be getting nastier as cases reemerge in Europe.

Dr Nabarro told MPs: “None of us find the present situation, anything other than horribly grotesque, really embarrassing.

“It’s a terrible situation, a health issue has got so out of control it’s knocking the world into, not just a recession, but a huge economic contraction which would probably double the number of poor people, double the number of malnourished, lead to hundreds of millions of small businesses going bankrupt.”

He added there was also a risk of the pandemic ruining educational opportunities for a lot of children around the world.

Well bloody do something about it then! Just let us all get back to normal. Yes, you’re right, Nabarro. The present situation is horribly grotesque and embarrassing. But it’s you and your fellow “experts” that have made it so.

131860 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 7, #754 of 1090 🔗

Correct. They caused it and need to be held to account for their ‘crimes against humanity’.

131999 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #755 of 1090 🔗

They have plenty more grotesque ones up their sleeves.

131879 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tenchy, 16, #756 of 1090 🔗

As you say, only thing that’s ‘horribly grotesque’ and ‘really embarrassing’ is how world governments have over-reacted to a disease with at least a 99.8% survival rate.

One thing that is really striking is how pessimistic the WHO, world govs, scientists and experts are. At a time when optimism and morale is so desperately needed, good news is just instantly slapped down or hidden while bad news is magnified and blown out of all proportion. Almost as if they don’t want it to end.

131983 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Poppy, 3, #757 of 1090 🔗

Of course they don’t want it to end

132005 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Poppy, #758 of 1090 🔗

Governments hand over vast sums of taxpayer monies for vaccines that don’t get used. This time they are going to put pressure on for everyone to be stuck with a dodgy unknown vaccine plus whatever else is in it.

131880 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Tenchy, 3, #759 of 1090 🔗

“He added there was also a risk of the pandemic ruining educational opportunities for a lot of children ”
Isn’t that the Government’s and teachers’ job ?

131920 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Tenchy, 1, #760 of 1090 🔗

Just replace them pandemic’ with ‘government reaction’ and he could be speaking the truth

131943 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #761 of 1090 🔗

Horrible and grotesque.
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
The horror and grotesqueness could be eliminated tomorrow, at a stroke, by restoring the Real Normal.
End of.

131965 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, #762 of 1090 🔗

Worse than any science fiction movie? He needs to watch 28 Days Later or Shaun of the Dead perhaps.

131998 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Tenchy, 2, #763 of 1090 🔗

Nabarro is just unbelievable. I love it when he comes on the radio. It’s as if he’s doing a satire on the whole establishment stance, except he’s being serious.

You’d think he’d be a godsend for sceptics, but such is the level of insanity into which we’ve descended he’s still taken seriously.

132007 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Tenchy, #764 of 1090 🔗

Let’s not mince words: he’s a big fat liar

131850 B Boru, replying to B Boru, 6, #765 of 1090 🔗

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-DOMMMMMMM!!!!

Rise up people……….Rise up and vanquish this enemy of humanity in our midst!!

Tiocfaidh ár lá 🙂

131875 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to B Boru, 3, #766 of 1090 🔗

Tá súil agam tá ceart agat!

131884 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #767 of 1090 🔗

Have faith Deartháir 😉

The truth is always more powerful than a lie and we SHALL overcome!

131993 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to B Boru, 2, #768 of 1090 🔗

Keep pressure on MPs to get them to vote against extending the Coronavirus Act. Reinforce arguments with hard facts.

132016 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #769 of 1090 🔗

Excellent advice Sir…….I have been sending emails every day for last 3 months and letter’s once a week….Still no had anything not even a cursory reply or threat!! I am hurt 😉

132019 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to B Boru, #770 of 1090 🔗

or Madam lol”

131861 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 16, #771 of 1090 🔗

This may have already been posted, here, but Noel Gallagher has joined his brother Liam, and Ian Brown, and “come out” as a sceptic and non-masker:

https://twitter.com/NME/status/1305879011843809287

Doesn’t seem to be a single comment supporting him, unfortunately. It makes me almost literally sick how judgmental and out of touch with facts so many “intelligent” people are now. (obviously I’m not talking about Noel here). Glue-sniffing clowns, the lot of them (to quote Liam)

I would be interested to know if any other musicians/singers are in our camp. (I haven’t dared to find out for myself – I suspect many of them are completely signed up to the “stay safe, save lives” narrative and don’t want to lose faith in any of my musical heroes!)

131867 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Drawde927, 4, #772 of 1090 🔗

That’s the twitter audience though – seem to be overwhelmingly authoritarians there.

131868 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to zacaway, 7, #773 of 1090 🔗

I would hazard a guess that a percentage of those will be bots, paid trolls or 77th brigade.

Still….he has just gone up considerably in my estimations 🙂

Cheers
B

131877 ▶▶ Will, replying to Drawde927, 3, #774 of 1090 🔗

Noel is a sensible, shooting man.

131898 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Drawde927, 1, #775 of 1090 🔗

Fuck yeah

131909 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Drawde927, 4, #776 of 1090 🔗

I’m not on social media. Has Morrissey had anything to say?

On Noel Gallagher, leaving the constant swearing aside, he is a very clever and astute man. I have listened to him being interviewed over the years, and he is often ‘ahead of the game’ and very perceptive. His brother is a bit of a joker, but he might have grown up!

131976 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Drawde927, 1, #777 of 1090 🔗

Twitter is in no way representative. Full of blowhards

131988 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Drawde927, 1, #778 of 1090 🔗

Twitters seems little more than an echo chamber and mob rule from what I’ve seen in the short time I’ve been using it.

131989 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Drawde927, 1, #779 of 1090 🔗

Remember the SS. Seventy Seventh brigade has nothing better to do now that the army is under the command of the EU.

131878 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #780 of 1090 🔗

Ivor Cummins 8/9 video nears three quarters of a million views. Seek it out if you haven’t already.

131882 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 4, #781 of 1090 🔗

The video is here get a cuppa and settle in for 37 minutes of clear info.

131901 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #782 of 1090 🔗

Thanks Dave. Really worth watching.

131913 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Basics, 3, #783 of 1090 🔗

It should be compulsory viewing for all MPs. If only we could crowd find a lorry with a screen on the side – playing it on a loop in every town in the country – aka Lions led by a Donkeys methods

131919 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Telpin, 1, #784 of 1090 🔗

Excuse me sir, you can’t park that lorry ‘ere, it’s attracting a crowd. I’ll ‘ave to ask you to move on.

131942 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to bluemoon, 1, #785 of 1090 🔗

I know – they have all angles covered! Depressing but we can’t give up.

131885 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 17, #786 of 1090 🔗

I notice change.org is trying to push another petition to exclude children from the 6, as if that makes it ok.
I feel this is completely wrong as it gives acceptance to the anti freedom North Korean style stunts implicit in this level of control.

131924 ▶▶ matt, replying to Nessimmersion, 6, #787 of 1090 🔗

Don’t let ‘good‘ be the enemy of ‘better’. Excluding children would at least apply some more flexibility.

Occurred to me that, by Priti Patel’s definition, school drop off time is illegal every morning.

131887 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 37, #788 of 1090 🔗

This seems a very pertinent statement. Even now there are people playing the “it’s only a minor inconveniance” card:

https://twitter.com/Roydini25/status/1305411119134244864

Roydini@Roydini25
Six months ago we needed to flatten the curve . Now when deaths and hospitalisation numbers are tiny we are being asked to call police if we see a gathering of seven people . The most depressing aspect of this is people actually support it. This is not the country I grew up in.

131895 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nobody2020, 17, #789 of 1090 🔗

Right… “it’s only a minor inconveniance”… it is now a criminal offence for me & OH to visit my sister (plus her OH + 3 young kids) for the indefinite future. Back in the normal world, even convicts were allowed to have family visitors.

131900 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #790 of 1090 🔗

The mission creep is biblical and also mission creep people can wake up to. Sowing the seed of wasn’t this all about flattening the curve for a bit? Reminders of forgotten big moments can irk some to thinking a little for themselves.

131912 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Nobody2020, 16, #791 of 1090 🔗

For whatever reason, and using any excuse they are perputuating this fear and control. The reason just keeps changing and it makes no difference if the Science supports it or not (never does), facts are meaningless.

Flattening the curve, protecting the NHS, rising R numbers, rising cases, rising R numbers again, rising cases in Denmark (or wherever) its just constant churn.

What really matters is rising hospitalisations and deaths, both of which are statistically noise. Almost certainly none of the deaths being reported are from Covid, that ship has sailed and claimed its quota of vulnerable.

Lockdown was a massive and destructive failure of lives, jobs, business and economic activity. Masks have made no difference so why persist with them? If they had been successful how do you explain the so-called rising cases, which started rising after the mask order? Social distancing has made no provable difference to the progress of the virus.

What is the governments endgame, what qualifies as success?

131930 ▶▶▶ tonys, replying to Kev, 19, #792 of 1090 🔗

Even rising hospitalisations and deaths would not justify the first lockdown or any future actions, nothing does.

132176 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kev, 3, #793 of 1090 🔗

Control, tyranny, police state. Call it what you will.

131903 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 12, #794 of 1090 🔗

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sars-cov-2-rna-testing-assurance-of-positive-results-during-periods-of-low-prevalence/assurance-of-sars-cov-2-rna-positive-results-during-periods-of-low-prevalence

Now that PHE have updated their guidance on the reliability of the PCR tests, does anyone think that this latest tests fiasco and the possibility that it could take weeks to resolve, is just a smokescreen? It gives Hancock and the government cover while they change the parameters for testing and hope that we don’t notice? When the numbers fall off a cliff because laboratories start to use fewer Ct cycles to obtain a positive PCR test, they will be able to say that local lockdowns and the rule of six have worked.

131938 ▶▶ Will, replying to Margaret, 7, #795 of 1090 🔗

The intention since April has been to try and claim credit for “beating” the disease. Because of what is happening in Sweden they are starting to get a bit desperate to maintain the nonsense so they have something to actually beat…

131957 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Margaret, 4, #796 of 1090 🔗

Cases have only fallen because people aren’t getting tested because we don’t have enough tests because naughty people with no symptoms were getting tested and wasting resources but TEST TEST TEST to get back to doing what you love, it’s your duty to get tested no matter what so you don’t kill granny!

131905 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 15, #797 of 1090 🔗

I work in a school, to see all the kids and staff masked is sickening.

131914 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #798 of 1090 🔗

Its had enough at the shops I feel for you.

132042 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Suzyv, 1, #799 of 1090 🔗

Thanks Suzyv, but I am OK, I am exempt.

It is however weird to walk amongst people and not see a proper face.

132124 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #800 of 1090 🔗

I’m with you. It makes me physically ill to see so many people masked, which is why I now live at my home outside the city so as to avoid it. I was, however, out last Friday and saw kids wearing masks walking home from school and we don’t even have to wear them outside! And we’re in a county that has no cases to boot. When will the madness end???

131936 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #801 of 1090 🔗

Presumably the kids will soon all be catching colds, does it occur to anyone that masks might just not work?

132038 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to tonys, 3, #802 of 1090 🔗

Autumn term is when all the bugs grown on kids since the end of summer term are shared amongst the entire school population.

This term will be no different, with the exception that general immunity to bugs may be lower as people have not generally been mixing for the last 5 or so months.

Upper respiratory tract infections will probably be up due to the masks.

131946 ▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #803 of 1090 🔗

It’s hard enough seeing it out and about. To work in that environment….good grief, I seriously sympathise with you and others in your shoes.

132034 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Hannahbanana, 1, #804 of 1090 🔗

Fortunately I am exempt from wearing a face covering.

I have heard that other members of staff are exempt from wearing face coverings, however I have yet to see anyone without a mask. We must have some students who are exempt from wearing a mask, I have not seen any without, even if it is only used as a chin warmer, or off the ear wear.

Whilst fully understanding that management have to do what they feel is best to keep the school open and students in school, personally I do not think face coverings are the right tool.

I suspect that many staff & parents are pro mask, as the generally populous seem to be.

131918 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 35, #805 of 1090 🔗

Re; rule of Six – Priti Patel says families stopping to talk in the streets could be breaking the rules. Well, let’s break the rules. This is unjustified, inhuman tyranny.

131923 ▶▶ Ricky R, replying to Londo Mollari, 7, #806 of 1090 🔗

Unenforceable but sick that the government wants to exert control on every aspect of socialisation.

131945 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #807 of 1090 🔗

Yes, then she back-peddled on here and said she wouldn’t call the police on her neighbours having more than 6 people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gze_4paR7yk

131953 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #808 of 1090 🔗

Well – if Ugly Patel says something, it’s a fair bet that the opposite makes sense.

132070 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to RickH, 2, #809 of 1090 🔗

Her labour equivalent is “zero covid” Burgon.

132075 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #810 of 1090 🔗

This lady long ago broke the rule of being a reasonable human being, The whole lot of them are talking drivel out of their R’s rate. And all for a virus that for the latest week’s data killed 78 people out of a population of 66.65 milion, good heavens its a wonder if any of us will see the week out!

132154 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #811 of 1090 🔗

She is a massive disappointment.

131929 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #812 of 1090 🔗

Business interruption insurance policy holders have scored an important victory in the High Court.

Most small business policies focus on property damage and have only basic business interruption cover as a consequence of property damage. However, some policies also cover business interruption from other causes including infectious or notifiable diseases.

“In some cases, insurers have accepted liability under these policies. In other cases, insurers have disputed liability while policyholders considered that it existed, leading to widespread concern about the lack of clarity and certainty,” the FCA said.

The 162-page ruling orders insurers to write to claimants within seven days detailing their response.

Insurers have the right of appeal “If any parties do appeal the judgment, we would expect that to be done in as rapid a manner as possible in line with the agreement that we made with insurers at the start of this process.

“As we have recognised from the start of this case, thousands of small firms and potentially hundreds of thousands of jobs are relying on this.”

132121 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Sarigan, #813 of 1090 🔗

Many of our dentists had such policies and the insurers tried to not pay out and claim they could have kept open during the lockdown. The bad press they got resulted in them reversing their decision and paying the claims. I suspect the dentists would have won in court had it gone that far.

131933 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 47, #814 of 1090 🔗

Today, at work, a 7 year old came in with a sore throat. She was wearing a mask, I told mum that she didn’t need to wear a mask. The child gladly removed the mask. She had a temperature and a cough with phlegm. She’d had a sore throat and a temperature for a few days. I treated her for tonsillitis with antibiotics and sent her on her way. I did NOT suggest they get tested. I did suggest that she stay off school until next Monday, this was to stop the school throwing a tantrum more than anything.

131939 ▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, 11, #815 of 1090 🔗

Well done, sane person, you are gold dust.

131940 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to p02099003, 4, #816 of 1090 🔗

Sensible strategy in any event – tonsillitis is not very pleasant, and you certainly don’t feel like going about your everyday business, child or adult?

131944 ▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to p02099003, 13, #817 of 1090 🔗

I wonder if parents making their kids wear masks will create more cases of tonsillitis than usual this year….

132117 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Hannahbanana, 3, #818 of 1090 🔗

My 23-year-old daughter is prone to it and has already had one bout since returning to the city and having to wear a mask. Can’t prove it, but if she gets another bout when she has to go into the classroom and mask up for 6 hours, 2 days a week, she’ll probably be convinced. She’s in her last year of teacher’s college and still hasn’t got her placement; we’re kind of hoping it’s with a mentor teacher who is teaching online so she’s not subject to quarantine of one kid tests positive.

131972 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 4, #819 of 1090 🔗

It’s so obvious that basic infections like this are absolutely normal at this time of year. The possibility of any Covid infection is so remote as to be invisible.

Well done – a small victory for rational sanity.

131980 ▶▶ TJN, replying to p02099003, 13, #820 of 1090 🔗

I find it horrific that someone would put a mask on a young child who has a sore throat and cough. Dreadful enough when the child is well. But risking them rebreathing, deep into their lungs, whatever it is they’ve got …

Why can’t people think for themselves? More to the point, what has this government done to society?

131937 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #821 of 1090 🔗

Oh dear. Is this the end of the Oxford Vaccine, or is it just US Big Pharma lobbying campaign taking shape?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8735235/US-regulators-concerned-effects-AstraZenecas-vaccine.html

131964 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #822 of 1090 🔗

The Americans are probably being more careful. After all they stopped Thalidomide being available in the States after realising the test data from the manufacturer was questionable.

132151 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to p02099003, 1, #823 of 1090 🔗

I was reminded of the way the Americans stood back and let us and the French develop Concorde and then wouldn’t let it cross the US landmass. Project ruined. The Americans have form for attacking competing foreign businesses. On the other hand, they may have good reason for sticking a spanner in the works. I’m happy about it anyway, because I don’t want to be vaccinated.

131987 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #824 of 1090 🔗

One consequence of this extraordinary spotlight on the vaccine factories is they cannot tolerate any bad press. The political pressure from other trials will be huge. Trials will be struck off faster than ever to save the reputation of vaccines.

132113 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Basics, 7, #825 of 1090 🔗

So I think the pharma companies are being scrutinized like never before. Even pro-vaxxers are asking questions about safety testing that they’ve never asked. It has opened the door to people like Robert Kennedy and Del Bigtree who have been questioning the safety of the current vaccines on the schedule and now have a larger audience. People are shocked to discover that not one vaccine has ever been tested against a saline placebo. Vaccines are tested against other vaccines, so if there’s a problem with an adjuvant it will be masked. The Hep B vaccine given to newborns was licensed with follow-up reporting of adverse reactions of a mere 5 days. All of this is to say, that if a rushed Covid vaccine injures or kills people it puts the whole vaccine project in jeopardy. So on the one hand, pharma is seeing a potentially huge cash cow in Covid vaccines, but on the other hand they understand that if it’s a repeat of the 1976 Swine Flu vaccine or the H1N1 vaccine, it could spell trouble for their existing products. They have reason to be afraid, as do we.

132158 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #826 of 1090 🔗

Really good perspective.

132193 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Basics, 1, #827 of 1090 🔗

Good point. The Trump factor [TDS] could potentially come into play too – can you imagine the meltdowns when he comes out in favour of vaccine [x] “it’s tremendous, I think it’s gonna be a tremendous vaccine…” I can forsee a triggering, or two…!

132008 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #828 of 1090 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8735433/Bill-Gates-does-not-think-FDA-trusted-COVID-19-vaccines.html

You think he might be beginning to panic?? Remarkable!

This just shows we are winning…they are terrified!!!

132267 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #829 of 1090 🔗

Astra Zeneca’s logo is really weird – what is it actually supposed to be? Disturbingly it looks a bit like 3 6s intertwined…

131951 rational actor, replying to rational actor, 2, #830 of 1090 🔗

If it’s WHO shenanigans we’re listing, you forgot my favourite: Stigma is Worse Than The Virus. See, racists racistly thought that avoiding Chinese people might be an idea in case they had just returned from China where the virus was supposedly killing people in the street, but that’s racist. The WHO head appears at about 3.25:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8VeM6jfU4E

In the immediate aftermath of this announcement, Italy held a Hug A Chinese Person Day to – wait for it – combat racism. Oops.

But all of this has been memoryholed, plebs. Videos of this engaging communication are strangely hard to find.

132052 ▶▶ Mark, replying to rational actor, 2, #831 of 1090 🔗

Stigma is Worse Than The Virus “….except when it’s “shaming” someone who doesn’t kowtow to the coronapanic bullshit, of course…

132188 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to rational actor, 1, #832 of 1090 🔗

Yes! I remember this.. I distinctly remember seeing video footage where people were invited to remove the mask of a Chinese gentleman, I think it was, and get up close & personal to his face, though he looked like he was simply wanting to walk around town minding his business… literally just weeks later when Italy’s death total started skyrocketing, there were comments online to the effect – well, we’re sorry these people died, but they should take solace in how diverse they were…

131954 Hannahbanana, replying to Hannahbanana, 14, #833 of 1090 🔗

the deeper and more emotionally involved I get into my sceptical opinions the more I am asking myself the most ridiculous superstitious questions.

for example, is it just me or does ‘the rule of 6’ sound like some kind occultist or satanic mantra? Is there some kind of sick symbology now being woven into the narrative? Or am I losing my mind and need to get back to ‘how stupid/pathetic is our government?’ kind of questions?

131958 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Hannahbanana, 7, #834 of 1090 🔗

No more than 6 meeting together; remain 6 feet apart; all we need is the final 6 to get the number of the beast 666.

131963 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to p02099003, 5, #835 of 1090 🔗

Six feet under!

131971 ▶▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to p02099003, 1, #836 of 1090 🔗

Nothing will surprise me anymore…let’s wait and see….

132086 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to p02099003, 1, #837 of 1090 🔗

Johnson; Hancock; Ferguson; Whitty; Cummings; Gove.

131969 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Hannahbanana, 1, #838 of 1090 🔗

More like an Enid Blyton novel like The Famous Five and about as mature and grown up

131974 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Hannahbanana, #839 of 1090 🔗

Seven or more and Covids knocking at the door!

131986 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Hannahbanana, #840 of 1090 🔗

6 of the best for non compliance

132002 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Hannahbanana, 1, #841 of 1090 🔗

Try doc hilary for comment on the occult 6 6 6 a little clip.

https://twitter.com/elsadog_/status/1305813802177495041?s=20

132047 ▶▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to Basics, 1, #842 of 1090 🔗

I overheard my husband watching this earlier, I did a double take for sure!

132063 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Hannahbanana, 2, #843 of 1090 🔗

Indeed, the other day the Government twitter site was flashing a psychedelic 666, the mark of the beast. Increasingly this ludicrous pantomime takes on the trappings of a cult religion!

132145 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Steve Martindale, #844 of 1090 🔗

Are you serious?

132122 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hannahbanana, 3, #845 of 1090 🔗

I don’t think it’s a mantra, but I do think that what’s behind the whole bollox is literally satanic, evil for evil’s sake.
There is no plan or conspiracy inherent in evil, it just exists as evil, channelling itself wherever and however it can. In the 1930s-1940s, Fascism and Stalinism provided that channel. Now, Covid totalitarianism is doing the same.
At least, during a real war you could take up arms and fight the evil in its human manifestations. It’s harder now. All we can do is refuse to give in.
Repeat quote from Ursula Le Guin: ‘It is very hard for evil to take over the unconsenting soul.’

132144 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Hannahbanana, 2, #846 of 1090 🔗

‘Rule of 6’ is just an extension of the rule of 3 propaganda technique. Like all those slogans on the lecterns when the 3 Stooges put in an appearance.

131955 Stephen⁹ Williams, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 12, #847 of 1090 🔗

Is it me? Does the BBC deliberately talk up the so called deadly killer pandemic? What I cannot understand is why. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but in whose interest is it to create hysteria and panic?

131960 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 3, #848 of 1090 🔗

It’s just to keep us all adhering to the ‘rule of six’. Take no notice.

131966 ▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 16, #849 of 1090 🔗

To be honest, I think we are past the ‘I’m not a conspiracy theorist but’ stuff. This is the kind of gaslighting and intellectual manipulation used to intimidate those with an open mind asking questions that need proper answers.

131997 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Hannahbanana, 7, #850 of 1090 🔗

I thInk that is well said. It is a sign of the strength of thought conditioning we have all encountered that people feel defensive when talking about something they feel independently curious about.

132137 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Hannahbanana, 1, #851 of 1090 🔗

If you’re not a conspiracy theorist, you must be incredibly naive.

132199 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Hannahbanana, -2, #852 of 1090 🔗

And conspiracy theory is the answer? Don’t think so. Time to leave this site to you fantasists. I’ve had enough of your bullshit. Bill Gates this, and New World Order that, and Great Reset the other.

You can fucking shove it. Goodbye.

131967 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 3, #853 of 1090 🔗

Power and control for its own sake a la Orwell’s 1984

131968 ▶▶ imranandmichael, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 4, #854 of 1090 🔗

The big cultural battel of our time is authoritarianism vs. libertarianism The BBC are firmly wedded to the first and the idea of a compliant population who do what they are told is compelling. An idea which is helped by having a killer virus. It is a position enhanced by their bitterness at the Brexit outcome. I think they hate this country and the idea of a freedom loving population.

131978 ▶▶ Will, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 3, #855 of 1090 🔗

They are a state broadcaster financed by a (near) compulsory tax. If the economy collapses their commercial competition will be driven out of business…

132053 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Will, 1, #856 of 1090 🔗

They are a state broadcaster financed by a (near) compulsory tax…. and Bill Gates

131985 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 6, #857 of 1090 🔗

The BBC have been appalling through this and I used to be a strong advocate of them. They have turned their entire output to “safe” ie government advice. It’s like watching Blue Peter on a loop for 6 months.

132018 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #858 of 1090 🔗

On CBBC yesterday there was a programme about vaccines followed by one on coming out of the closet, followed by another one on trans people. It seems like Brave New world is the mission of the Beelzebub Broadcasting Corporation..

132057 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #859 of 1090 🔗

The one exception is, in my view, Tim Harford’s More or Less radio programme. Does a good reality check on the stats and has had Carl Heneghan on his programme a few times..

132142 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #860 of 1090 🔗

“Put that testing kit down, Shep.”

131994 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 1, #861 of 1090 🔗

they would claim they are impartial and use “More or Less” as their insurance policy

132141 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Stephen⁹ Williams, 2, #862 of 1090 🔗

Have you only just noticed? It has been relentless for the last six months. The website news is the worst I think. Just out of interest, why aren’t you a conspiracy theorist? Do you think that conspiracies don’t exist? Not intending to have a go, but the terms ‘conspiracy theorist’ and ‘anti-vaxxer’ are routinely used to marginalise and rubbish anyone who questions the official narrative. It’s very difficult to understand what is going on, without hypothesising that there is conspiracy at play.

131961 petgor, replying to petgor, 9, #863 of 1090 🔗

Yet another own goal by the government, or put more politely, another anomaly. Grouse shooting and other ‘sporting’ activities are exempt from the “rule of six” rule, provided they implement social distancing. Like whose going to check? Nosey parkers won’t be allowed on the owners private land!

I am a sad soul. I have taken to making what are so far reasoned Freedom of Information requests to government departments, particularly the Department of Health. This, my latest FoI request asks for the scientific reason why certain sports, such as grouse shooting are exempt, whilst a similar exemption isn’t granted to the rest of the law abiding population…provided of course, social distancing is carried out.

It’s great fun because provided they aren’t given the opportunity to reject an FoI request on the grounds that it doesn’t make sense, or some such, they must answer.

131981 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to petgor, #864 of 1090 🔗

Someone showed me the list of sport that was exempt yesterday and all I thought was ‘which member of the cabinet plays Octopush?’

132035 ▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to petgor, 1, #865 of 1090 🔗

Do you need to provide Id to complete FOI request. I’ve submitted a subject access request and right to be forgotten on behalf of my son, who had a coronavirus test. I had initially told his nursery I was unwilling to do this but PHE got involved and I am concerned about where their data will end up. They have asked for ID but not provided an address for me to send this to as of yet.

131962 RickH, replying to RickH, 5, #866 of 1090 🔗

Just musing on the utter shambles that is the WHO – and the utter garbage being churned out by some of its representatives like Nabarro.

I don’t want to sully the work done by those on the ground in both instancies – but at the higher levels of such an agency, and the parallel in the voluntary/charity sectors – is there a connection with the corruption in the management of Oxfam that hit the headlines a while back? Is there something about these organisations that attract a certain type of manipulator and power-grabber?

132064 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #867 of 1090 🔗

The WHO probably doesn’t register much with people in rich countries, generally. We sort our own healthcare out. Now they are on the map. What’s not to like?

131973 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, #868 of 1090 🔗
131982 ▶▶ Will, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #869 of 1090 🔗

Can’t see Sweden accepting that.

131991 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Will, 1, #870 of 1090 🔗

I’m encouraged by that. They didn’t accept the euro

132263 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 1, #871 of 1090 🔗

Sweden would be glad of the business from tourism I would have thought..
I mean, who, coming from a masked dystopia, would complain at coming to a country where shopping is still like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQat0vX-wjM&feature=youtu.be

132091 ▶▶ RickH, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #872 of 1090 🔗

Looks like the government is looking to cut off contact with more civilised and rational regimes.

131977 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, #873 of 1090 🔗

https://twitter.com/MickyJo98017844/status/1304012141758906373?s=20
Even the Chesham Dogging Society are falling into line. I did suggest they could pass off their activities as hunting with hounds

131984 ▶▶ Mark, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #874 of 1090 🔗

Does it not count as a team sport (I’m a bit vague on the details….)?

131992 B Boru, replying to B Boru, 6, #875 of 1090 🔗

Evening all

For those who perhaps can’t understand or fathom how the narrative can be controlled via social media or find it difficult to rationalise some of the posts/comments they might read on various platforms with regard to their inability to see what is going on or attempts at smear or anything else which parrots the party line, this report done by Oxford Uni last year which slipped my mind came back to my attention today

https://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/news/releases/use-of-social-media-to-manipulate-public-opinion-now-a-global-problem-says-new-report/

I note Professor Howard’s additional comment….
“A strong democracy requires access to high quality information and an ability for citizens to come together to debate, discuss, deliberate, empathise and make concessions. Although there are an increasing number of government actors turning to social media to influence public attitudes and disrupt elections, we remain optimistic that social media can be a force for good creating a space for public deliberation and democracy to flourish.”

There is a place for it and it can be useful tool but BEWARE THE DECEIVERS!

Cheers
B

132120 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to B Boru, #876 of 1090 🔗

It was about time somebody said that.

132004 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 1, #877 of 1090 🔗

Did I read that Carl has had a “call up” today?

132011 ▶▶ CGL, replying to hotrod, #878 of 1090 🔗

Oh dear – please don’t let them silence him.

132030 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to hotrod, 10, #879 of 1090 🔗

Yes, he is apparently in front of the Science & Tech select committee on Thursday afternoon. Greg Clark is the chair – an intelligent and mild mannered man. Hopefully Carl will get his points across well and it will get some MSM coverage.

132106 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #880 of 1090 🔗

Sincerely hoping he won’t suffer the same fate as Starmer, by someone with a positive test result (or even a sniffle) accidentally coming into contact with him before Thursday?

132119 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bruno, #881 of 1090 🔗

Most of the select committee meetings have been over Zoom, with Greg Clark and a couple of the MPs in Westminster only, so assume this is the likely format.

132132 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #882 of 1090 🔗

Does this sound promising or not? I get the feeling quite a few MPs are sick of Boris and Hancock – probably their phones are red hot and their inboxes are full every day with disgruntled constituents.

132262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, 1, #883 of 1090 🔗

Yes, you wonder how long Tory MPs are going to put up with the large number of letters and emails of complaint that they must be getting..

132006 Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, 7, #884 of 1090 🔗

OK, that’s enough now. My son has just come in and reports we are in for another lockdown.

How does he know? Well, apparently his mate’s mum is to be back on Furlough soon, (she is a bus driver). Right, so what of ‘front line workers’? Shall we all cease to do our jobs?

Either this virus is so bad that we must all ‘shelter’, or are only the dispensable ones to be subjected to this ‘lethal’ virus?

There seems to be a class issue at play here.

Those of us who have no choice about going to work (in my case no sick pay) are expected to carry on even though we are probably most likely to get sick, but others are quite happy for the ‘lower classes’ to deliver food whilst they continue to collect their pay and enjoy the status quo.

132031 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Laura Suckling, 6, #885 of 1090 🔗

I’m convinced it coming too and I fear it’s going to be worse next time around. I’m slowly building up stocks of essentials and I bought a new chest freezer today.

132077 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to leggy, 5, #886 of 1090 🔗

How would they expect not to have rioting if they do that? At this point we are not in the same mood as the Victorians were when it was sprung on them. There are more sceptics and pissed of people out there every day.

132179 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to CGL, 2, #887 of 1090 🔗

I’m not going back into lockdown. If they’re stupid enough to try it on again, it’s time for bomb and bullet.

132050 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Laura Suckling, 6, #888 of 1090 🔗

Peston saying in Spectator that gov’t will not wait for death rates to go up before acting. Acting means another lockdown, because, apparently, it’s the only thing they know that works.

132078 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bugle, 9, #889 of 1090 🔗

If that’s the case we’re screwed. They can manufacture cases for the rest of eternity. Deaths are harder to fabricate.

132126 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Julian, #890 of 1090 🔗

Sorry, should have added they’re giving Rule of 6 two weeks to see if it works. Don’t blame me if it’s wrong, just telling you what Peston wrote.

132260 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, #891 of 1090 🔗

That would seem to fit with previous rumours of an October lockdown (unfortunately 🙁 )

132083 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Bugle, 3, #892 of 1090 🔗

Since they claim to be able to control the virus with testing I can see a lockdown ‘just for a few weeks while we get that sorted’ stretching out ahead of us.

132074 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Laura Suckling, 3, #893 of 1090 🔗

Our Premier threatened lockdown again as well, but said they wouldn’t be province-wide this time, just targeted areas. And school is just going back this week and we haven’t even started mass testing students and teachers. I started stocking up on paper products again last month.

132010 Malpractice, replying to Malpractice, 13, #894 of 1090 🔗

I’m a bit confused with all these coughs and colds apparently now the schools are back. How can people possibly catch them?

Since they are transmitted and caught in exactly the same way as Covid then it must mean that all the crappy masks and social distancing etc are utterly pointless. Unless of course masks are increasing the transmission of respiratory viruses – as has been suggested previously and are therefore to be discouraged.

I am in full agreement with the Ivor Cummins point of view and the COVID 19 epidemic is all but over – except for the long tail of false positives from a pointless testing.

Since there is no treatment other than symptomatic aspirin etc for this as with any other viral infection there is nothing to do unless you are unfortunate enough to get sick enough to merit a visit to hospital.

Positive or negative the treatment of the individual is the same.

A test might be a false positive, (maybe as many as 80%) and thus give rise to an excuse to extend sanctions on individual choice etc

132068 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Malpractice, 6, #895 of 1090 🔗

I’m amazed people can’t see the stark, obvious, logic behind this. It’s completely baffling.

132017 Jo, 4, #896 of 1090 🔗

My partner was unable to go ahead with a non-urgent health care appointment (not NHS) because the zapper said he had a temperature. When he took his own temperature with a proper thermometer, his temperature was normal. Although problems with testing mean that it is unlikely we will get Local Authority staff knocking on the door offering tests, we are prepared with a stock response: “I have taken my temperature today and it is normal” and if they mention asymptomatic “infectors” then we will decline a test on Al Johnson’s advice that only people with symptoms should be tested.

132021 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #897 of 1090 🔗

Irish Parliament are off home for a good long isolate. One of them, a top one or something, has caught something they claim to be coronavirus. So as reasinable folk do, they all sympathise and bog off home for a few weeks. Great work if you can get it.

132046 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Basics, 8, #898 of 1090 🔗

What an excellent way of closing Parliament down to avoid any debate

132023 p02099003, 28, #900 of 1090 🔗

The twelve days of Christmas has been reduced to the 6 days of Christmas as 8 maids, 9 ladies, 10 lords, 11 pipers and 12 drummers were all dispersed for breaching the no more than 6 rule, swans are also included.

132024 swedenborg, 16, #901 of 1090 🔗

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kt3cgrp63w85irr/200%20Belgian%20Doctors%20against%20Corona%20Hysteria.pdf?dl=0

200 Belgian doctors protesting C-19 hysteria.When will the UK doctors follow?

132025 Bella, replying to Bella, 14, #902 of 1090 🔗

Rule of Six: Chess is officially a sport according to the Olympic committee. So all anyone needs to do is download a chess app on their phone and then, if questioned when there are more than six of you, say you’re taking part in a chess competition. If nothing else it’ll be fun watching Plod work that one out.

132051 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Bella, 3, #903 of 1090 🔗

I always knew it was worth listening to you. Thanks for the idea.

132169 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Bella, 1, #904 of 1090 🔗

Nice one. Handball is an Olympic sport too, if all else fails just shove a small beanbag in your pocket & say you’re gathering your squad…

132026 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 6, #905 of 1090 🔗

BBC R4 Life Scientific interview with Sarah Gilbert – inventor of the Astra Zeneca vaccine.
I am now even more against the vaccine. Worth listening to, ignore the propaganda at the beginning.

132041 ▶▶ Jo, replying to Silke David, 4, #906 of 1090 🔗

Yeah, I heard it this morning. There was also a prog on World Service about when we will get a vaccine. They must have an auto-prompt to remind them to come out with the mantra “when it is safe”

132156 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Silke David, 1, #907 of 1090 🔗

That’s the woman who kept saying safe and safety during another interview today. Nothing like brainwashing people subliminally.

132028 leggy, replying to leggy, 3, #908 of 1090 🔗

It looks like Ibiza is about to go full lockdown and given the Spanish army are moving in, it’s looking a lot like martial law. Has anyone seen anything to suggest any outbreak there warrants that?

132040 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to leggy, 7, #909 of 1090 🔗

Fascinating, this is in line with an “insider” leak posted here by Awkward Git on 3rd September that Spain would be going into full second lockdown enforced by the military by 18th September.

132048 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Richard O, 6, #910 of 1090 🔗

Israel is also going into a lockdown on 18th September. If this is true, then it’s plain evidence of government collusion, as there’s no possibility of knowing that the same conditions would prevail in two different countries so far apart.

132065 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to RichardJames, #911 of 1090 🔗

Trafalgar Square ‘reunion’ si happening on 19th…..I wonder!!

132072 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to RichardJames, #912 of 1090 🔗

Why would collude? And how could that many people keep anything quiet enough these days? In the days of Bletchley maybe, but now? I’m not saying you’re wrong- just trying to understand.

132172 ▶▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to CGL, #913 of 1090 🔗

Well they haven’t if Awkward Git posted it in here on 3rd September have they?

132088 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to RichardJames, 1, #914 of 1090 🔗

Government ministers being bribed. Is this hard to believe?

132089 ▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to BJJ, 3, #915 of 1090 🔗

Eisenhower: beware of the military industrial complex. Hard to believe?

132062 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Richard O, 2, #917 of 1090 🔗

There was a TV interview posted by 21 Century Wire back in August. The ER doctor (at a named hospital) called out the nonsense of the interviewers (every bit as bad as ours in Blighty) and predicted a new lockdown in September.

132203 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #919 of 1090 🔗

also mentions consultation with other govts including UK

132097 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to leggy, 2, #920 of 1090 🔗

We do seem to be seeing an outbreak of truth, maybe they want to shut that down.

132037 Jo, replying to Jo, 12, #921 of 1090 🔗

A person in our village who has a holiday let for 12 people has been told by the letting company that she cannot let it to capacity until JANUARY. This is an example of the total acceptance of these ridiculous rules – the assumption that it will go on until then ie 3.5 months. I know, realistically, that sadly this might happen but the blind adherence is depressing beyond measure. We are wrecked as a country so long as organisations (like the lettings agency) allow the Govt slack in doing these things, as if 3.5 months of business, and holidays for all those people, don’t matter.

132058 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jo, 3, #922 of 1090 🔗

3.5 months? At this point I would settle for 3.5 years, as opposed to the rest of my life, which is what is more likely

132085 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Jo, 1, #923 of 1090 🔗

…and of course the letting agent feels obliged to police this bilge?

132094 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #924 of 1090 🔗

Letting agent should be working for the owner, not for the local police. I bet the authorities are not paying.

What if a sports team are looking at renting a property, this could be ideal and legal.

132180 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Dave #KBF, #925 of 1090 🔗

… exactly

132102 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Jo, 1, #926 of 1090 🔗

bet they say which January

132039 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #927 of 1090 🔗

Viral Realities Revealed: Dr John Lee, Pathology Professor – (sadly this it over 2 month old and we are still making the same lockdown mistakes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRYEBHDyR3Y

Ep85 Viral Realities Revealed: Dr John Lee, Pathology Professor

111K subscribers

Excellent conversation with a hero of mine – retired Professor of Pathology Dr. John Lee. He has written such common-sense and yet exceptionally scientific articles on this seasonal viral challenge in The Spectator Magazine, since late March. I found these articles and realized there was at least one other person in UK/Ireland who understood what the hell was going on – a relief I must say!

We cover mortality risk realities, the evidence supporting Lockdown being an effective intervention, the ethics and philosophy of it all – and exactly WHY such challenges remain.

The technical reality is nothing like that portrayed in the media – that’s for sure.
Ivor Cummins

132049 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #928 of 1090 🔗

You’re everywhere – just seen this on the speccie comments too!

132043 Basics, replying to Basics, #929 of 1090 🔗

And from the helpful draw there is this little number:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/how-to-handle-covid-19-conspiracy-theorists-in-the-family-1.5101382

“TORONTO — Misinformation and conspiracy theories can sometimes seem as rampant online as genuine news. And while media outlets and health officials have worked to debunk and disprove many of them—as with the World Health Organization’s “Mythbusters” page—people close to you may still believe them.

That’s because people need to make sense of our world and anxiety can lead them to non-reputable sources of information, said Ont.-based social worker Gary Direnfeld”

Really quite a weakling of an article in reality. Does anyone ever read this stuff and then decide to follow the ‘advise’. I find it hard to believe there’s any need at all for an article such as this, other than it in born out of a globalist panic to shape reality.

132055 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 5, #930 of 1090 🔗

Some might read and follow

No-one of my remaining friends or family – at least not the ones I still speak to

132067 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Basics, 11, #931 of 1090 🔗

Arrrggghhh! He’s my lawyer’s brother. Can’t say I’m too surprised. Unfortunately, Canadians are sheeple and there just aren’t that many of us sceptics here. Having said that, one of us sceptics is a constitutional lawyer and he has filed a claim against Trudeau, the premier of Ontario, the mayor of Toronto and the CBC (our version of the BBC). He’s challenging the mask ordinance and is hoping to sue all kinds of other people related to school opening and forced masking of kids. But the media here is simply awful, as per the referenced story.

132081 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #932 of 1090 🔗

Small world!
Is there an appetite for such an article in Canada? In my limited perception of UK public it feels as though the article is without any bite – unlikely to stir anyone.

132096 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Basics, 8, #933 of 1090 🔗

I hadn’t even read it, but now that I have I can tell you that YES, there is an appetite for this garbage in Canada. We just love being polite. I quote:

It may be tactful to consider striking a balance between politeness and concern for public health. For example, when faced with someone not wearing a face mask, Toronto physician and medical research Dr. Iris Gorfinkel told CTVNews.ca in July that explaining how their behaviour affects you is a place to start. “If the goal is trying to engage and create more of a community, it’s always better to start off with the perspective of how it makes you feel ,” she said. “For example, ‘I feel uncomfortable mentioning this, but I’m concerned because…’ or, ‘I feel protected when you wear your mask.’”

How about this instead: “I feel uncomfortable mentioning this, but it makes me sick to not be able to see your whole face. I feel unsafe seeing you walking around looking like a criminal. I’m concerned because we have totally lost our collective fucking minds. I feel at risk watching people hand over their civil liberties for the illusion of safety.” Somehow I don’t think my advice would get published.

132135 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #934 of 1090 🔗

Brilliant! You are so polite too! Must just be the Canadian way…

It’s outside my ken that people respond to what I consider as strong as mineral water. Your version has a pith that is helpful. Thanks for the education!

132271 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #935 of 1090 🔗

Yes, I very much agree: ‘I’m concerned because we have totally lost our collective minds’. I have not seen this before in my society. It is genuinely alienating.

132056 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #936 of 1090 🔗

I read that the Governor of Victoria defended this brutality (cops run man over and then kick him in the head – he is in a coma) by saying it would not have happened had the man been following the regulations. https://www.brighteon.com/25d15fd0-a325-4552-a5cc-edefb75aac06

132059 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #937 of 1090 🔗

Psychopath! Simples!

132069 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #938 of 1090 🔗

The video of his comment is on yesterdays comments page. He was also refering to the woman pulled from her car by police.

‘None of it would happen if people just didn’t protests’, is close to what he said when asked about the two incidents of the head stamp and the pulled from car incidents.

132161 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 2, #939 of 1090 🔗

Sky Oz were suggesting Andrews might be gone by Christmas. Rumour or hearsay? No idea.

132073 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #940 of 1090 🔗
132111 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to B Boru, 3, #941 of 1090 🔗

Imagine if they had taken that approach with BLM?

132164 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #942 of 1090 🔗

I believe he did say that in Australia, yes. This tactic is not dissimilar to what Cuomo said in NY, he knowingly shipped thousands of covid-infected vulnerable patients from hospitals into nursing & care homes – and then blamed the care homes for accepting them, saying if they’d have taken responsibility and done the right thing by refusing these patients, everything would have been OK (though he himself signed a legal directive in March that banned them for refusing covid-positive patients)

132177 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #943 of 1090 🔗

I didn’t know that. Identical to the instruction by PHE in the UK then. Coincidence?

132071 Julian, replying to Julian, 9, #944 of 1090 🔗

I was thinking about this “young v old” tripe that the MSM and govt push at us

I’m middled aged with grownup kids

Older people have grandchildren

People younger than me have teenage kids

So regardless of what any of these groups might think generally about the virus, do they all hate their kids and grandkids and think they are selfish granny killers?

I accept some do, but really? I think it’s manufactured in part. Maybe the people they get this stuff from have no relatives or friends that they want to see happy – they are all “self-contained”. We’re all in it together? Bollocks we are.

132076 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Julian, 3, #945 of 1090 🔗

I think they think it is everyone else’s kids and grandkids that are the problem. No self awareness and would find excuses for their own family whatever they say about others.

132098 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Julian, 8, #946 of 1090 🔗

Divide and rule

132103 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #947 of 1090 🔗

With you all the way on this. Remember the previous trope about ‘selfish’ baby boomers?

Same sheep’s clothing for division.

132108 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 2, #948 of 1090 🔗

It’s a good comment Julian. Has had me thinking and I think it is as you say an unreal division injected onto us. Some will follow and now some are so destabilised away from what the knew they have no choice but to raft along with the strongest current.

Part of my thought wandering had me thinking about real vs fantasy. We are living through a fantasy. If this was a genuine plague would our institutions perform so badly? Would the grown-ups stand up and act to save lives rather than the mealy mouthed jibberish we have now. Is this fantasy the best our world can do?

132090 DRW, replying to DRW, 9, #949 of 1090 🔗

Does anyone else get the feeling of really wanting to do things but just having no energy for them?

132092 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to DRW, #950 of 1090 🔗

I recommend Oshee energy drink, get it in the Polish (that’s nationality) aisle 🙂

And as my Granny used to say……..Gie yirsel a good shake!

132100 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 12, #951 of 1090 🔗

The feeling is very widespread, and is one major psychological consequence of the current repression.

Many of us, I think, can relate projects that we intended to undertake as therapy against the insanity – but which haven’t happened.

Those of the Goebbels Brigade (SPI-B) and controllers need to be faced with Nurnberg-style accounting for their activities.

132110 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to RickH, 9, #952 of 1090 🔗

This is how they want you to feel. You must resist and not succumb. I know how hard it is…been there done that got the wardrobe but believe me…..achieves nothing if we give in to the fear and despair.
You must reach inside yourself, deep inside for some, and pull out the strength and energy you have in unlimited supply within. We are infinite consciousness having an experience, We are etrnal beings of light and energy and can tap into it if we want…..Find a way 😉

Or….Don’t let the Bastards grind you down….if you prefer 😉

You’ll never walk alone

Cheers
B

132127 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to B Boru, 8, #953 of 1090 🔗

Well said. Just never, never, never give in.
Keep off the news for a day, or longer, go somewhere in the country that isn’t fouled by Covid garbage, and do something you enjoy, even if it’s only drowsing in the sun. It may be passive resistance, but it’s still resistance.

132174 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to annie, 2, #954 of 1090 🔗

Hear Hear…..like the cut of your jib kind lady 🙂

132184 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 1, #955 of 1090 🔗

Thanks. It’s just a sort of tiredness and apathy creeping in to everything and I just end up wasting whole days.

132190 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to DRW, 1, #956 of 1090 🔗

I feel you mate, as i said, been there!

Just try to not look at too much into things, keep focused on the task in hand and eat, drink and sleep better. There is also the technological influence to consider as well….might want to disconnect from it for a while, get your own mind working again you know.

Anyway, take it one day at a time….you’ll get there…watch Rocky movies or something haha 🙂

132205 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to DRW, 1, #957 of 1090 🔗

I’ve had that feeling too, even so far as questioning my mental health. However, I’m now going fishing in Scotland for a few days to enjoy some wide open spaces, and thinking about flies, the drift and where the salmon are hiding – instead of all this covid crap. Food for the soul.

132285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to charleyfarley, 2, #958 of 1090 🔗

I have been stripping a mates tractor apart most of the day – to replace a worn power steering pump. Whilst doing that I have been thinking of marching, shouting and throwing things. Burning things.

132095 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #959 of 1090 🔗

https://www.sanews.gov.za/south-africa/health-focuses-immunity-seroprevalence-covid-19-cases-decline

South Africa reached the famous 20% level and herdimmunity

 “According to the model of COVID-19, the initial seroprevalence studies from convenience samples have shown seroprevalence of between 29% and 40%.
“Interestingly, the revised models currently predict that there are probably about 12 million South Africans in total – detected and undetected – infected with Coronavirus. This translates to about 20% of the population,” said Mkhize.
There are now 650 749 confirmed COVID-19 cases, with 15 499 deaths since the outbreak in March 2020, after 52 more people lost their lives on Monday.
However, Mkhize said the number of detected cases countrywide continues to be on a downward spiral since 22 August 2020, when the country reported under 3 000 cases.
This was down from between 10 000 and 15 000 cases a day at the peak of the pandemic in July.
Patients under investigation, general ward admissions, ICU admissions, deaths and excess deaths are on the decline, the department said.
“Consistency across these indicators reassures us that indeed, we are in the midst of a trough in the pandemic.”

132129 ▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #960 of 1090 🔗

Not an end. only a trough.
Yeah.

132099 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 1, #961 of 1090 🔗

Has anyone being watching the situation with Ivor Cummins this evening on Twitter.

Would suggest that Ivor has made a significant impact.

Brilliant stuff.

132105 ▶▶ matt, replying to hotrod, 1, #962 of 1090 🔗

Link?

132123 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #963 of 1090 🔗

https://www.despecialist.eu/nl/opinies/al187-artsen-uiten-bezorgdheid-aanpak-uitbraak-sars-cov-2-in-open-brief.html

I am not sure this relates to hotrods comment. It is from Ivor Cummins – it is big news.

132130 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 1, #964 of 1090 🔗

I just looked up cummin’s feed. Someon calling themselves “juniordr” has a Twitter thread rebutting the latest video. Evidently, Cummins responded at length, but his responses have been hidden.

Interesting to note, there’s a lot of hate out there for KBF and apparently Cummins is a “dangerous conspiracy theorist” and Julia H-B spreads misinformation.

132140 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 3, #965 of 1090 🔗

Let them hate, so long as they fear :o)) #KBF

132264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Nick Rose, #966 of 1090 🔗

“Oderint, dum metuant” – Not sure Caligula is the best role model, Nick!

132146 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 2, #967 of 1090 🔗

Thanks for the translation! 745k views in 6 days, it’s going to get on someone’s nerves.

132147 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #968 of 1090 🔗

Lot of hate out there for anyone resisting the Official Truth, as Toby (or Will) mentioned here the other day:

Covid lockdown rules more divisive than Brexit, survey finds
Well done, lockdowners.

132273 ▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to matt, #969 of 1090 🔗
132220 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, #970 of 1090 🔗

Great stuff. They absolutely nail every single issue bang on

132116 ▶▶ Basics, replying to hotrod, 3, #971 of 1090 🔗

200 belgian doctors calling out the virus for what it is – from Ivor Cummins twitter

https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1305945188792139776?s=20

132247 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #972 of 1090 🔗

Slightly off-topic byt scrolling down that thread I see that Kirstie Allsopp is a sceptic and is tweeting a lot about how ridiculous the rules are!

132240 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to hotrod, 1, #974 of 1090 🔗

It’s heavy going.

Twitter is the worst place to do a back and forth on anything. Nevermind this important issue.

Can’t see any of Ivors replies anywhere

132101 B Boru, replying to B Boru, 5, #975 of 1090 🔗

“The people have the power, all we have to do is awaken that power in the people. The people are unaware. They’re not educated to realize that they have power. The system is so geared that everyone believes the government will fix everything. We are the government.”—John Lennon

132104 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to B Boru, #976 of 1090 🔗

Gimme the truth
John Lennon

132107 ▶▶ RickH, replying to B Boru, #977 of 1090 🔗

I’m afraid he got shot.

132115 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to RickH, 1, #978 of 1090 🔗

Thts cos he was more powerful than them and they were afraid of him…..so they killed him.

His legacy and message will live forever 🙂

132118 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to RickH, 1, #979 of 1090 🔗

“Peace can be made only by those who are peaceful, and love can be shown only by those who love. No work of love will flourish out of guilt, fear, or hollowness of heart, just as no valid plans for the future can be made by those who have no capacity for living now” – Alan Watts

132162 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to B Boru, 2, #980 of 1090 🔗

“Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”. 1984.

132170 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Achilles, #981 of 1090 🔗

Touche! haha

However i prefer the glass half full approach 😉

I used to walk that path….no good down that road.

Cheers
B

132225 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to B Boru, 1, #982 of 1090 🔗

“Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives.”
Another Lennon quote very apt

132109 smurfs, replying to smurfs, 1, #983 of 1090 🔗

Off topic I guess as it relates to censorship, but I received an error when trying to access the video clip Jim Cramer just called Nancy Pelosi “Crazy Nancy” on live television hosted on Bitchute. It is an Innocuous clip, cringe worthy may be, which makes the error all the more surprising.

The error message reads..

This video is unavailable as the contents have been deemed illegal by the authorities within your country.

I use a VPN and receive the error when I access the hyperlink via UK and Germany (didn’t try anymore countries)

I must admit I was a little taken aback as I was under the impression Bitchute did not censor content. How wrong was I? It seems they are no better than YouTube after all.

Has anyone else come across this before?

P.S. Just as well Vernon Coleman had problems migrating his video catalog to Bitchute, opting for BrandNewTube instead, as he could well have found himself jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

132136 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to smurfs, 2, #984 of 1090 🔗

Works fine for me…?

132196 ▶▶▶ smurfs, replying to tallandbald, #985 of 1090 🔗

Thanks.

I’ve tried several more EU countries and getting the same error. Must be a geographic block as it works fine when connecting via US or Canada. Anyway life’s too short to worry about it. Just good to know they are no better than youtube when it comes to censorious behaviour.

132219 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to tallandbald, #986 of 1090 🔗

Same

132112 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 30, #987 of 1090 🔗

Federal Judge Rules Pennsylvania Lockdown “Unconstitutional”

Even in an emergency, the authority of the government is not unfettered. The liberties protected by the Constitution are not fair-weather freedoms – in place when times are good but able to be cast aside in times of trouble.

There is no question that this Country has faced, and will face, emergencies of every sort. But the solution to a national crisis can never be permitted to supersede the commitment to individual liberty that stands as the foundation of the American experiment.

The Constitution cannot accept the concept of a “new normal” where the basic liberties of the people can be subordinated to open-ended emergency mitigation measures. Rather, the Constitution sets certain lines that may not be crossed, even in an emergency.

132131 ▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 5, #988 of 1090 🔗

Golden words.

132138 ▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 3, #989 of 1090 🔗

That’s great. Thin end of the wedge, hopefully.

132153 ▶▶ leggy, replying to T. Prince, 2, #990 of 1090 🔗

We so need more voices like this. Won’t see it on the BBC of course!

132157 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to T. Prince, 2, #991 of 1090 🔗

Simple. What a shame there isn’t anyone in the MSM or Houses of Parliament capable or willing to fight for our basic freedoms.

132178 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Achilles, 3, #992 of 1090 🔗

Sir Charles Walker gave a good speech in Parliament last night. Sir Graham Brady, chair of the 1922 Committee, has publicly criticised the gov’t. So has Sir Lindsay Hoyle, the speaker.

132168 ▶▶ DRW, replying to T. Prince, 4, #993 of 1090 🔗

I did hear that some in other states (Michigan?) are trying to challenge/amend the legacy ’emergency’ legislation allowing the Govs to indefinitely rule by diktat. Maybe the fightback continue.

132286 ▶▶ assoc, replying to T. Prince, 2, #994 of 1090 🔗

Golden words indeed. USA has stopped the AstraZeneca trial. Always remember that America refused to allow thalidomide, because they did not trust the data.

132125 Will, replying to Will, 4, #995 of 1090 🔗

Ambrose Pritchard arsewipe writing his usual nonsense in the Telegraph. Managed to mention seroprevalence and herd immunity and not mention Sweden… bullshit artist of the highest order.

132181 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Will, 1, #996 of 1090 🔗

The Torygiraffe is overrated if you ask me. It has been the most consistently sceptical MSM which gets some hopes up but it’s also still full of crap like that.

132255 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 2, #997 of 1090 🔗

Maybe the Telegraph need to send a journalist to Sweden, to see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQat0vX-wjM&feature=youtu.be – what shopping is like over here at the moment…

132133 B Boru, replying to B Boru, 5, #998 of 1090 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV5_LQArLa0

or for those of a more classical persuasion……

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3aGlKYlEiY

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don’t be afraid of the dark
At the end of a storm
There’s a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of a lark

Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown

Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you’ll never walk alone

You’ll never walk alone

Cheers
B

132148 ▶▶ leggy, replying to B Boru, 3, #999 of 1090 🔗

This might have to be the resistance anthem.

132160 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to leggy, 2, #1000 of 1090 🔗

Possibly…but my recommendation would be this…;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWXazVhlyxQ

132163 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to B Boru, 1, #1001 of 1090 🔗

Rage. Against. The. Machine.

132173 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to B Boru, 1, #1002 of 1090 🔗

RATM literally wrote the theme tune to this shitshow. Which is why them taking the lockdown lovelength is puzzling

132185 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1003 of 1090 🔗

I just like the beats an shouting 😉 haha

Nah serious;y, I find I am digging out more and more of my old punk records and listening to them again with new ears…..many are proving to be entirely prophetic!!

I dunno what Rage’s stance is but probably like most others, they arent saying much….well apart from Noel Gallagher, who I hasten to add, always thought was an establishment luvvie, has now gone up considerably in my extimations. Liam and Ian Brown should be mentioned also, Jim Corr, there’s another one lol….as well as Peter Ebdon and Matt Le Tissier from world of sports….taken pelters all of them but haven’t backed down….fair play.

But yeah….The message and music still stands as regard Rage whatever they are doing now.

Cheers
B

132165 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to leggy, 1, #1004 of 1090 🔗

or equally as effective might be….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqkMsXcHQYg

132139 annie, replying to annie, 26, #1005 of 1090 🔗

Humans think that life should be worth living.
Zombies think life means just not being dead.
Humans show their faces.
Zombies have no faces.
Humans value other humans.
Zombies value nothing, not even other zombies, only their zombie selves.

It’s tough being human just now.
But, by the living God that made us, it’s INFINITELY better than being a zombie.

Fellow humans, I value you more than I can say.

132159 ▶▶ James, replying to annie, 2, #1006 of 1090 🔗

Reciprocated , Annie.

132175 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to annie, 6, #1007 of 1090 🔗

Imagine the lack of self-esteem, the depths of self-worth and the scale of self-hatred that would cause someone to succumb to such a barrage of lies and insults to their intelligence, then beg their government to harm themselves and their children and inflict violence upon anyone who offers different information, at the same time as dismissing that information in wilful ignorance.

You have just caught a glimpse into the barren, miserable, agonising internal landscape of the zombie.

132143 hotrod, #1008 of 1090 🔗

Meanwhile in Italy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardEGrant/status/1305894192359641089

How sensible.

WTAF has Hancock been doing for the past few months?

132149 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1009 of 1090 🔗

Something a bit light hearted for LS’s, solid advice for true believers:

GERMS AND YOU

132166 ▶▶ matt, replying to Dave #KBF, #1010 of 1090 🔗

Thank you for that. It raised a smile. And then it went on to play “Tacky” which did the same.

132150 annie, replying to annie, 2, #1011 of 1090 🔗

Was just looking as some legal bumff on face nappies. By bumsuckers who obviously get their own nappies from the most appropriate place for nappy wearing.
Quote from an opinion that face nappy compulsion is fine provided it’s imposed by a democratically elected government:

‘A slave has to live in a state of perpetual uncertainty, a citizen knows where they stand.’

So we are citizens, not slaves, yeah?

https://www.city.ac.uk/news/2020/august/face-mask-rules-do-they-really-violate-personal-liberty

(Warning: full article will make you puke.)

132171 ▶▶ john, replying to annie, 5, #1012 of 1090 🔗

it’s a badly argued piece, trying to be clever.
Firstly, the authors state that “you are free when you are protected not against simple interference, but against arbitrary interference” but they provide no evidence that mandatory wearing of masks, to no proven benefit, is not arbitrary. If the government mandated that we wear yellow socks everyday it would be equally arbitrary.
secondly, they argue that the rules are the product of a democratically elected government – which is not the case when a state of emergency is declared purely for the reasons of bypassing a democratically elected government,
thirdly, they argue that the public ought to be worried about more important things – they reference demonstrations but fail to mention arbitrary arresting of those who demonstrate against the imposed lockdowns – but of course this is a null argument as there is always something “more important” – which is a means by which the nefarious gradually erode freedoms

132215 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to john, 2, #1013 of 1090 🔗

The author also states in another one of his publications :

“It will argue that a right to resistance is a necessary component of the political conception of human rights”

So, it’s OK to resist and he alludes to that in this article too. The author fails to mention anything about how the very rukes they have introduced are preventing that.

There is also the thorny issue of the unsettled science. So if a government can mandate masks on this way, what else can they do that also doesn’t impact your liberty? Mandate that you clap for the NHS? Mandate that you take a vaccine?

You are right that his line between arbitrary interference and simple interference is unclear. If you cannot be protected from simple interference then arbitrary is a given.

132246 ▶▶▶▶ john, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #1014 of 1090 🔗

agree. And his argument justifies any infringement on freedom and human rights, on the premise that there is something more serious to fret about. Thus we should not be concerned about pregnant women getting arrested for a facebook post, because its not a jackboot to the head. And likewise we should not be concerned about a jackboot to the head, because it could also be something worse – and on it goes…..

132268 ▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to john, 1, #1015 of 1090 🔗

That’s my take. So many mask advocates start from the premise that the science is settled and look for answers why people can’t act on it, ie wear a mask. They are idiots, nutbars, conspiracy theorists, they are being fed misinformation.

It’s confirmation bias in operation

132182 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1016 of 1090 🔗

If you thought the tiktok dances had ended, think again! This one is epic…

https://twitter.com/maggmountains/status/1305670769402245120?s=20

Admiration to the dancers.

132189 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 2, #1017 of 1090 🔗

Oh, we’re not gonna take it
No, we ain’t gonna take it
Oh, we’re not gonna take it anymore
We’ve got the right to choose it
There ain’t no way we’ll lose it
This is our life, this is our song
We’ll fight the powers that be, just
Don’t pick our destiny ’cause
You don’t know us, you don’t belong
Oh, we’re not gonna take it
No, we ain’t gonna take it
Oh, we’re not gonna take it anymore
Oh, you’re so condescending
Your gall is never ending
We don’t want nothin’, not a thing from you
Your life is trite and jaded
Boring and confiscated
If that’s your best, your best won’t do
Whoa, oh oh
Whoa, oh oh
We’re right (yeah)
We’re free (yeah)
We’ll fight (yeah)
You’ll see (yeah)
Whoa, whoa, we’re not gonna take it
No, we ain’t gonna take it
Oh, we’re not gonna take it anymore
We’re not gonna take it
No, we ain’t gonna take it
Oh, we’re not gonna take it anymore

132207 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #1018 of 1090 🔗

Inspriational aren’t they! One dance group I approve of.

132210 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 2, #1019 of 1090 🔗

Yes. Plus I’ve always had a secret soft spot for 80s glam rock.

132186 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 20, #1020 of 1090 🔗

The thing I find most depressing is that whenever the government’s draconian rules are seen to fail – lockdown, masks, and surely soon the rule of 6 and curfews – the fanatics and the sheeple refuse to believe the failure was because the intervention failed to work against a virus that is not flu, is evolving and about which we still have much to learn,

Instead of taking it on the chin and being honest with us by saying, we tried X and it failed so we will stop doing X, they double down on the rules and blame is placed squarely on the citizenry. Despite far greater compliance than the government hoped for in their wildest dreams the failure to eradicate the virus is laid at the door of holiday makers, youngsters, protestors, non mask wearers even though we are very few and they are many. Every new rule is now caveated with “comply or we will be even more severe” ensuring that every new measure will be enforced by the sheeple who are terrified both of the virus and the ever harsher restrictions coming down the track. We sceptics are the scapegoats. For us sceptics the saying “a prophet is without honour in his own country” has never been truer.

132192 ▶▶ FatBastardMcKenzie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1021 of 1090 🔗

A most excellent summary. Thank you.

132195 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to FatBastardMcKenzie, 1, #1022 of 1090 🔗

I’ll second that.

132197 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #1023 of 1090 🔗

I follow a few lockdown zealot social media groups to gauge the fear levels. And it’s grim. They believe the true death numbers are being hidden (the reduction of 5,000 Carl Henegen forced was ‘fiddling the books’), that all kids will get Kawasaki disease, that as its Cold and Flu season, if you get either of those it makes you more vulnerable to Covid-19 and more likely to die as your body fights on two fronts.

The screenshot is an example.

I really think this is not for turning anytime soon. People have really lost all perspective and will need some serious convincing this is over. A vaccine, even a bloody placebo seems their only hope.

They twist and contort every positive message that this is not what we had initially feared into unreal negativity. It makes me want to say something but it is certainly a waste of time. I’ll continue to lurk.

132201 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1024 of 1090 🔗

Pretty much my experience of drop off too. I love it. Gives me hope.

132212 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #1025 of 1090 🔗

This woman is mentally ill, and her poor daughter, if she makes it into adulthood without committing suicide, will be an absolute basket case until the day she dies.

132254 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Richard O, 1, #1026 of 1090 🔗

Daughter could well pursue a political career …

132218 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1027 of 1090 🔗

Any idea what is missing from people’s lives to think Kawasaki is going to take all children etc.?

Are they having a fine wartime experience or feeling the comfort in being sad? There must be psychological answers for why such irrational behaviour has set up camp.

Social media being an effect of an internal gap.

132265 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Basics, 3, #1028 of 1090 🔗

I go back and forth in relation to this. Sometimes I agree with you that they have attached to Covid as a way of objectifying a threat or a loss or a trouble that they can’t otherwise name. At last they have been given a state-mandated rhetorical technique for acting out their pain. (Though it will be of no use in solving the problem, because they don’t recognise that what they are doing is expressing a psychological phenomenon, not responding to reality.)
At other times I feel less compassionate and think of it as a form of decadence. Some kind of self-titillation about death in the real absence – for the majority – of any significant risk of death.

132284 ▶▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Alethea, 1, #1029 of 1090 🔗

I really do think that they think that they have a starring role in their very own horror movie and that the rest of the dopey twats on faecesbook are their fans.

132231 ▶▶▶ NappyFace, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1030 of 1090 🔗

They are lost.
28 days later style – they’ve turned, and nothing will get them back. Leave them to their miserable existence.
Pity the poor child, but there is nothing you can do, sadly, other than look after yourself and your own family and try to keep sane.

132237 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1031 of 1090 🔗

Show them this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQat0vX-wjM&feature=youtu.be – they’ll have a meltdown! Film of what it is like now, shopping in Sweden…

132283 ▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1032 of 1090 🔗

A typically thick twat that can`t even spell.

132223 ▶▶ jim j, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #1033 of 1090 🔗

There isn’t anything new about the public behaviour here, fascinating parallels to be drawn with cult behaviour. You have to read “When Prophecy Fails” –
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/12/the-christmas-the-aliens-didnt-come/421122/
Faced with contrary set of facts to the beliefs, some people will slip away, and some people will double down.
We are in the double down phase now I think.

132242 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #1034 of 1090 🔗

It’s tails they win, heads we lose. If cases (or whatever the measure du jour is) go down it had to be because of the masks and distancing, but if they go in the other direction it’s because people aren’t distancing or wearing masks.

132191 JohnB, 14, #1035 of 1090 🔗

Amusing experience in Waitrose this afternoon. (Me and 1 other maskless, plus a guy talking on his phone with a mask round his neck).

As I approached the chocolate aisle, always a key part of my shop, I heard a raised voice. Guy in mask (with 2 young kids in tow) had turned round and was coming back towards me to shout at . . . another bloke in a a mask. Something about distancing, I think, but as I could hear neither of them clearly (!), will never know the details. 🙂 The terrified are starting to fight among themselves !

132200 aiden, replying to aiden, 5, #1036 of 1090 🔗

Just had a visit from the police checking that my mother in law (who’s just arrived from Brazil) is following quarantine rules. 100% sure that one of the neighbours has called the police and reported us.

132228 ▶▶ NappyFace, replying to aiden, #1037 of 1090 🔗

Any way you can find out which ones?

132233 ▶▶▶ aiden, replying to NappyFace, 6, #1038 of 1090 🔗

Plan is to just directly ask the ones we think most likely. We’ve just had a baby, so what with the lack of sleep, the world going to hell in a hand cart and now our neighbours dobbing us into the authorities, it’s no wonder my wife’s just said that she doesn’t want to be alive in this period of history.

132239 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to aiden, 1, #1039 of 1090 🔗

My thoughts are with you and your wife. The post-partum period is tough enough without all of this craziness added in. I hope having her mom around will give her some help and boost her spirits.

132245 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to aiden, 5, #1040 of 1090 🔗

Sorry to read this. It’s rubbish, but please tell your wife that lots of good people around who can support each other through this. All the best and hope your Mother in law is left alone. Shame on our country.

132204 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1041 of 1090 🔗

Edinburgh is a step away from ‘increased lockdown measures’ due to a ‘spike’ in ‘cases’, according to sturgeon.

The rationale for Edinburgh not already being lockedup is that they claim the track and trace data shows no pattern or ‘particular driver’.

Hadn’t previously noticed that there needed to be a particular anything to ruin areas local economies. Aberdeen came to my mind, the city that told sturgeon no after being forced to lockdown.

I wonder if Edinburgh’s hanging in the balance position is a sign of sturgeons weakening grasp on power and reality.

132211 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1042 of 1090 🔗

6 hospitals per Covid Patient in Scotland just now, it’s a pandemic you know.

RECOUNT Coronavirus Scotland: Number of Covid hospital patients slashed from 262 to just 48 as stats overplayed by 80 per cent

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/6048912/coronavirus-scotland-nicola-sturgeon-hospital-covid/

132234 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 1, #1043 of 1090 🔗

I wonder if this counting “method”, or one similarly misleading, is used in the rest of the UK?

132269 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1044 of 1090 🔗

It refers directly -baldly- to the scam where by patients arrived in hospital with covid19 or were infected in hospital. They fought the infection and won, but remained in hospital with their other complex issues. 200+ of them. Because they were still in hospital, but clear of Covid19, they remained a stat on sturgeons note pad. Sturgeon knowingly told the nation 80% higher numbers of covid cases in hospital for a period of weeks. Myself and others had the likely senario worked out a month- 6 weeks ago when it became clear the hospital numbers were not dropping. It stinks to high heaven.

Artificial high numbers or else Scotland opposition would have had to of woken up. Such low rates of clinical cases.

132236 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Basics, 2, #1045 of 1090 🔗

And just a quick reminder, for anyone who missed it, that Jason Leitch, Scotland’s National Clinical Director, recently described the current tests for Covid-19 as ‘…a bit rubbish’.

Given that Government policy in the whole of the U.K. is being driven by ‘cases’ supposedly detected by these tests that is a remarkably candid admission.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18711279.scotlands-health-chiefs-astonishing-admission-coronavirus-tests-bit-rubbish/

132270 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DJ Dod, #1046 of 1090 🔗

I missed that so thanks.

132253 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1047 of 1090 🔗

That should be headline news!

132248 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Basics, 1, #1048 of 1090 🔗

Sturgeon out!!!!

Here’s something you may not be aware of with regard Her Imperial Hignness, Great Leader And Mother Of The Country And Of The Galaxy And Surrounding Gas Clouds, Her most Esteemed and Right Honourable Nicola ‘Jimmy Krankie’ Sturgeon and her cohorts…..

Corruption Inc.

https://johnjamessite.com/2020/09/13/a-50m-meltdown/

132208 hotrod, replying to hotrod, #1049 of 1090 🔗

Does anyone have latest updates on France and Spain?

Also noted again that Germany is NEVER mentioned by Hancock….

132222 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to NickR, #1051 of 1090 🔗

Thank you. Telling….

132252 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 3, #1052 of 1090 🔗

I just read on Twitter that Matt Hancock i n the HoC today did not give a straight answer to the question regarding the criteria that would be required to remove the “rule of 6”. That means he can do what he wants until he’s good and ready..

132209 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1053 of 1090 🔗
132244 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to tonyspurs, #1054 of 1090 🔗

He’s trying absolutely anything to keep his mind off Liverpool FC (Premier League Champions, you know. 🙂 ).

Nah, seriously, good on him. More brains than most celebs.

132345 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1055 of 1090 🔗

At the risk of being a know-all it’s Noel.

Dickhead interviewing sums up the idiots roaming about, well done Noel.

Interesting report on the radio about it, message not as bad as I imagined compared to how they slated Ian brown.

132213 Tee Ell, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #1056 of 1090 🔗

I was having a play with making a false positives calculator, it’s very basic but it sort of gets the idea across https://coronacalculator.azurewebsites.net/

132232 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tee Ell, #1057 of 1090 🔗

Nice one. Thanks.

132214 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 7, #1058 of 1090 🔗

This may be a stupid question but what has happened to Co Vid deaths and hospitalisations in China? Everything seems to have gone quiet but is it really realistic that they’d only have around 4 k deaths across the whole country and no ongoing cases? Has anyone been following – or have they just stop recording and has everyone gone back to ‘normal’ living?? I’m curious.

132226 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to 2 pence, #1060 of 1090 🔗

Some real sad “give it two weeks” comments on the comments.

There really are some sick and jealous people in the world.

132238 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Telpin, 3, #1061 of 1090 🔗

I’ve been asking that question for ages. It makes no sense that they’re packing thousands in a pool in Wuhan and nobody’s wearing masks any longer. Where’s the “second wave”? Where was the first wave??? They have half the deaths we have here in Canada, which is simply unbelievable. The MSM is prattling on about “cases” instead of doing some real investigative journalism.

132224 NappyFace, replying to NappyFace, 4, #1062 of 1090 🔗

If we are not correct in our assessment.

Then either we are all deluded fools, or we’re missing something that’s staring right at us.

The measures make no sense. They might do if the disease was very dangerous. As we understand it, it is in the same ballpark as a bad flu. Yet flatten the the curve has become zero Covid. Expert dissenting voices appear to be studiously ignored both by policy makers, and some of the press (though more on the right are allowing dissenting voices).

So is it more dangerous than we realise. ie it’s a long term disease, and that’s what they’re worried about? The lab made stuff turns out to be true, etc?

Or do they just want to extend this up until the US election, as that is the only way they think they can get rid of Trump?

For Boris and co, the confusion suits them as 1) they can do what they want on Brexit whilst the limelight is elsewhere. And 2) perhaps they believe the best way forward for Britain is to pull it all down, so they can rebuild it as they like? So no amount of destruction will be too great?

Or do I need an early night?

132230 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NappyFace, 4, #1063 of 1090 🔗

Or it’s a planned global social, economic, and political reset. 🙂

Sleep well.

132235 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to JohnB, #1064 of 1090 🔗

Nail. On. Head. 🙂

Worth a watch, from an Aussie perspective but the message is universal.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ypw7fEhm4Bif/

Night Night

132227 Steve Martindale, 12, #1065 of 1090 🔗

Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice In the latest ONS weekly death stats 78 people died from Covid 19 that is about 1.2 people for every million who live in the UK.
Although hospital cases have gone up a bit and some of the data is dodgy nonetheless 972 people are stated to be Covid 19 patients in hospital, so 0.0015% of the UK population are hospitalised with Covid 19.

Let the jury consider their verdict,” the King said, for about the twentieth time that day. “No, no!” said the Queen. “Sentence first—verdict afterwards
On the news tonight hordes of people are panicking about testing for the disease that as noted above seems to be doing very little, children are being excluded from school for coughing, which children always do at school.

“Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the cat. ‘We’re all mad here.”
And so you see if you stop trying to make sense of it all
“I’m not crazy, my reality is just different than yours”
and think of it as a giant re-make of Alice in Wonderland, it all makes perfect sense.
Goodnight

132229 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #1066 of 1090 🔗

Another very clear article covering the subject of masks bad and why. May be useful to share.

“A classic fallacious argument: “If masks don’t work, then why do surgeons wear them?”

https://www.sott.net/article/438827-A-classic-fallacious-argument-If-masks-dont-work-then-why-do-surgeons-wear-them

“Based on extensive review and analysis, there is no question in my mind that healthy people should not be wearing surgical or cloth masks. Nor should we be recommending universal masking of all members of the population.”

132256 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Basics, 8, #1067 of 1090 🔗

If surgeons use scalpels to make people better, why shouldn’t I?

132258 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1068 of 1090 🔗

In one!

132334 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #1069 of 1090 🔗

But surgeons don’t wear their mask in the pub or on the bus

132459 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to Basics, #1070 of 1090 🔗

And although surgeons wear them, not all agree they are necessary. In fact, some studies have shown no difference in rates of postoperative infection regardless of whether the surgeon is wearing a mask or not.

132243 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 18, #1071 of 1090 🔗

Apologies if this has been alluded to before but to my mind it is headline news. It is re figures for those in hospital in Scotland with Covid (many thanks to the tireless Basics for picking it up) – how 262 can become 48 at the stroke of a pen:
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/6048912/coronavirus-scotland-nicola-sturgeon-hospital-covid/
Under the old measure – which included patients who had recovered from coronavirus, but were still in hospital for unrelated conditions – there would have been 262 people logged today.
But the First Minister said a “new and more accurate measure” showed the current figure was 48 patients.
…and this is Sturgeon saying this (through gritted teeth – not a happy sight) as she was forced to recalculate the figures by Carl Heneghan.
Quote again from Sturgeon:
“we have been reporting a higher number of hospital cases than is probably justified”

132250 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #1072 of 1090 🔗

This should be front and centre of every newspaper tomorrow to ensure it is corrected for all nations.

132251 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to hotrod, #1073 of 1090 🔗
132261 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to hotrod, #1074 of 1090 🔗

Don’t hold your breath! Have the BBC covered it? I rarely watch it so can anybody tell me?

132259 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #1075 of 1090 🔗

Heneghan is on to them. They must hate him. What baffles me, is what sort of arrogance does it take to think that you might get away with such brazen dishonesty? He is looking at the ‘Covid admissions’ now which is very pleasing. I have been saying for a while that they are waiting for the ‘rise in hospitalisations’ to materialise, based on all the new (likely false) ‘positives in the community. It is inevitable that as people are hospitalised for all sorts of reasons they will claim they are ‘Covid’ even if they are victims of road accidents or heart attacks. That may have been thwarted, and may be behind the swift change in tack and refocus on testing ‘only those with symptoms’.

132275 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Chris Hume, 5, #1076 of 1090 🔗

Yes I think only testing with symptoms is part of this process as well as the simple fact they just don’t have enough tests. What it will mean is that the number of cases will go down but the proportion of positives to tests will go up. So I fully expect them to move from number of cases to proportion of positive tests as the new figure of fear. Basically they’re just looking for any figure that goes up to latch on to to justify their bizarre policies.

132290 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #1077 of 1090 🔗

More reasons t love Heneghan – not that we needed any!

132257 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #1078 of 1090 🔗

devi sridhar. The standard of a public health globalist is very low. Her lack of ownership is noticable.
Drawing public attention to it seems correct.

She pins this tweet:
“And here’s your reminder as we head into the weekend that this is a super-hard time for most people. It’s a crap situation- SARS-CoV-2 is a nasty & wily virus. It’s ok to grieve for how life & the world has changed. And to take things one day and one week at a time.”

Then Tweets this:
“The only certainty about the next 6 months (incl. Christmas) is uncertainty ahead. If you’re struggling with your mental health, know that almost everyone on the planet is in the same basic shitsoup (various flavours of it). Helps to focus on the day & the week ahead”

And when asked this:
“The mental health of people have been deliberately targeted by SPI-B of SAGE to ramp up fear and create mental ill health. Do you support this highly unethical policy which has harmed people and led to suicides?”

Devi is silent and does not answer.

132272 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 7, #1079 of 1090 🔗

Reality and truth will eventually catch up with all of these non-entities. The only question is how many of us will they take down with them.

Calling a virus “nasty and wily” is the absolute nadir of all the nonsense I have heard so far this year. Yet this puerile mentality is driving state policy the world over, and worryingly it seems to be getting particularly bad here in the UK.

132274 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, 8, #1080 of 1090 🔗

A fine assessment. I am trying to keep my comments to myself, I feel a deep unease walking the streets with monsters like her on them.

I feel it’s right to point this stuff out – the immaturity of a ‘professor’ in what ought to be career defining days. But it is also wrong to feed it’s ego of noteriety.

The language she uses – as a professional is embarrassing. Doesn’t miami have any schools? Doesn’t Edinburgh University have any standards? I’ll shut up.

132276 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 6, #1081 of 1090 🔗

The “authorities” and their billions of fanatical followers are breaking so many laws, both of man and nature, that the new society they are trying to build is unsustainable.

Ultimately the only people that will survive are those of us who do not follow the cult. Many of us won’t make it (and I instinctively know I am in this number), but enough of us will to ensure that humanity will prevail.

132331 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #1082 of 1090 🔗

I find it incredible that on 1 hand we have her who to me seems a complete imbecile and has major influence on our lives and then Richard Ennos who is treated like a complete imbecile when he should have major influence.

132266 Dom Baron, replying to Dom Baron, 3, #1083 of 1090 🔗

On the news just heard an ‘expert’ highlighting that over 60% of British public would accept a night time curfew. Clearly I don’t know our country at all. So it turns out that the myths around the ‘stiff British upper lip’ and ‘keep calm and carry on’ are actually just propaganda that we’ve believed into. The reality is very different. When this saga finally ends, let us make a pact to never criticize other countries and accept that these slogans are merely to be sold to the gullible tourists in souvenir shops.

132369 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Dom Baron, 1, #1084 of 1090 🔗

That’s what I keep wondering. Whatever happened to the mantra: “Keep Calm and Carry On”? Can mugs, tea towels, and tee shirts still be displaying the slogan. A apt slogan today would be: “Stay At Home and Quake in your Boots”.

We can’t function with the level of anxiety that is constantly generated. A child sneezes in class and the whole school closes.

132279 nfw, replying to nfw, 6, #1085 of 1090 🔗

Just love those new “cases” Must be lots of grandmas dying. Test me and you will find years of inoculations either deliberate or picked up from flus and colds various (bet that’s what the “tests” are finding anyway), smallpox, typhoid, tetanus, cholera, yellow fever, malaria and all the other goodies we face daily. As ever, TB gets a free pass despite killing some 1.5 million in 2018. Just a continuing con by stupid but power hungry politicians who haven’t the guts to admit it’s all been one big mistake and it’s over. Great research here: https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/09/10/covid-diagnostic-test-worst-test-ever-devised/

132319 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to nfw, 3, #1086 of 1090 🔗

A good link. The shame is that the PCR test is a useful tool and before I retired it was used in my work. But to use it well does need good understanding of what it can and cannot do. It’s outlandish use in this virus hoo-haa seems a classic situation of politicians and administrators being spooked by a virus and dazzled in the headlights of the blinkered over enthusiastic scientist offering them an instant solution. So they are using it like it was a speed camera, either you were speeding or you were not, black/white but it cannot be used in this way.
It does grate with me when, for understandable reasons people say the PCR test is useless, when it is, in fact, very useful but not in the way it is being used in this virus hoo-haa. As though you were using a hammer to drive in screws or a screwdriver to drive in nails. The question is, as this has become such a monster, how do we stop it?

132531 ▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Steve Martindale, #1087 of 1090 🔗

It does grate with me when, for understandable reasons people say the PCR test is useless, when it is, in fact, very useful but not in the way it is being used in this virus hoo-haa.

I think that when people say “the PCR test is useless”, they are right, because by “the” PCR test they mean this PCR test: the technical aspects of this instance of a PCR test combined with the way in which it is being targeted, performed and then reported upon.

Speed cameras are useless if they are low resolution and pointing at the sky: every cloud is guilty. So we should quarantine the daytime (darkness seems to stop the infection).

132282 Leemc23, 4, #1088 of 1090 🔗

Morning papers are not especially positive for the Government and shock of shocks. Archbishop of Canterbury has finally broken ranks and stated control should be decentralised.

132323 Csaba, 2, #1089 of 1090 🔗

I cannot stop thinking that the government just uses its newly got greater power and control on much more money to extend this period and trying to get even more power and control over more money. They simply use bbc and all the resources they have. It must be difficult for them to realise that the period is over when they got this extraordinary power. I hope they don’t use this power to push back their political opponents.

132651 allanmacrae, 1, #1090 of 1090 🔗

I published ‘way back on 21March2020 that there should be NO LOCKDOWN for Covid-19. It is increasingly obvious to competent scientists that NO LOCKDOWN was the correct call. Almost all countries EXCEPT Sweden fell for the full-Gulag lockdown – they all could have been a lot smarter and saved trillions of dollars and harm to billions of lives.

The danger of Covid-19 was overestimated by orders of magnitude – the full-Gulag lockdown was NOT necessary. I published in March 2020 that Covid-19 was not a very dangerous flu except for the very elderly and infirm. Covid-19 was less dangerous than the 2017-2018 seasonal flu that nobody even remembers.

The current obsession with testing and emphasizing very-scary “case numbers” is also wrong. Forget vaccines – every flu in history has died because herd immunity was reached. We want herd immunity and we are preventing it with this lockdown nonsense. All the lockdown and distancing did was prolong the life of this virus and possibly allow it to mutate…  AND trashed the economy. The full-Gulag lockdown was dead wrong – the only remaining question is was it a deliberate scam – based on the evidence, it probably was.

PLANDEMIC OR SCAMDEMIC?
https://youtu.be/X6pzXrEBqR0

Users

228 users made 1,059 comments today.

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238Basics120, 11, 15, 3, 14, 41, 2, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 4, 1, 19, 1, 11, 0, 8, 3, 1, 9, 1, 9, 2, 0, 1, 7, 5, 0, 0, 0, 2, 2, 0, 2, 3, 3, 0, 1, 3, 3, 2, 0, 10, 2, 11, 8
155Bart Simpson6, 6, 4, 11, 8, 11, 12, 1, 0, 0, 4, 15, 4, 6, 1, 27, 14, 9, 7, 1, 5, 3, 0, 0
154Julian14, 11, 0, 2, 0, 10, 11, 3, 14, 3, 1, 8, 21, 1, 7, 3, 6, 1, 4, 8, 0, 9, 3, 5, 9
137RichardJames6, 11, 80, 16, 8, 1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 3, 6
137Mark2, 9, 35, 5, 3, 1, 0, 8, 3, 5, 7, 1, 3, 3, 19, 9, 2, 13, 6, 2, 1, 0
117Cecil B461, 17, 9, 7, 4, 6, 9
107Harry hopkins15, 10, 48, 8, 25, 1
98p02099003284, 3, 0, 1, 5, 47, 3, 7, 0
98Will14, 0, 8, 8, 8, 7, 3, 0, 7, 6, 4, 3, 9, 3, 7, 2, 3, 2, 4
97B Boru6, 8, 11, 3, 0, 2, 2, 1, 6, 6, 3, 1, 0, 7, 1, 6, 0, 3, 1, 0, 9, 2, 1, 5, 1, 1, 0, 5, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0
94Tenchy230, 28, 6, 0, 4, 23, 1, 0
89Achilles12, 17, 4, 15, 7, 12, 11, 2, 2, 2, 5
86Lisa from Toronto2, 2, 1, 7, 3, 2, 0, 27, 3, 0, 3, 7, 3, 11, 8, 3, 1, 3
84stefarm339, 8, 0, 1, 10, 5, 1, 1, 3, 10, 1, 1, 1
83annie3, 2, 10, 3, 1, 0, 2, 0, 0, 3, 2, 1, 11, 3, 8, 1, 5, 26, 2
80Victoria20, 26, 4, 3, 1, 1, 12, 1, 6, 6
74Gman74
74zacaway2, 8, 0, 1, 1, 0, 20, 2, 9, 1, 3, 4, 4, 17, 2
73Nessimmersion7, 49, 17
71Awkward Git9, 6, 5, 9, 5, 4, 2, 4, 9, 5, 2, 3, 8
70kh148511, 0, 3, 6, 4, 5, 9, 2, 10, 1, 8, 4, 3, 4
59swedenborg10, 9, 13, 5, 164, 0, 2
58Sarigan07, 1, 3, 13, 5, 3, 0, 4, 6, 9, 7
56Nobody20207, 7, 4, 1, 37
55Jimmy55
55nat6, 4, 1, 3, 35, 2, 1, 3
55Leemc23412, 1, 14, 1, 3, 3, 11, 1, 5
53Nick Rose12, 3, 3, 7, 0, 0, 6, 3, 1, 1, 5, 7, -2, 2, 2, 3
50Londo Mollari35, 8, 2, 5
49Hannahbanana4, 13, 14, 1, 1, 16
47William Hand72, 11, 7, 3, 18, 3, -4
47Sam Vimes0, 3, 2, 4, 4, 3, 1, 1, 6, 11, 3, 5, 0, 3, 1
46tonys15, 9, 19, 3
46Chicot12, 6, 1, 5, 16, 1, 5
44Fingerache Philip.17, 3, 1, 8, 15
43HelenaHancart28, 2, 13
42jojo39, 3
42Sir Patrick Vaccine2, 3, 119, 11, 6
42DRW11, 9, 3, 4, 9, 1, 4, 1
42TJN4, 1, 0, 0, 12, 1, 5, 0, 3, 2, 13, 1
41Bob26, 9, 6
40MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG3, 0, 11, 7, 3, 5, 11
39Norma McNormalface39
39T. Prince1, 8, 30
39mhcp16, 4, 2, 12, 5
39Rowan11, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 5, 11
38mjr4, 1, 1, 1, 7, 4, 3, 3, 2, 5, 3, 1, 3, 0
36Simon Dutton4, 32
36Tyneside Tigress1, 1, 3, 0, 0, 2, 2, 7, 4, 4, 1, 10, 0, 1
35Jonathan Palmer16, 12, 7
33leggy4, 7, 6, 6, 3, 0, 2, 0, 2, 3
33matt6, 1, 9, 6, 1, 1, 3, 0, 2, 2, 2
32Poppy6, 10, 16
32mattghg0, 1, 22, 1, 1, 7
32Dave #KBF4, 15, 1, 3, 1, 2, 3, 3
31jhfreedom4, 3, 2, 22
31BeBopRockSteady1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 3, 0, 3, 3, 3, 1, 0, 1, 0, 2, 1, 5
30Richard O7, 6, 4, 7, 6
29Marie R29
28Caroline Watson12, 16
28OpenYourEyes27, 1
28RickH5, 4, 5, 1, 1, 12, 0
27petgor18, 9
27Schrodinger26, 1, 0
27PastImperfect202, 2, 0, 0, 2, 1
26FenTyger21, 2, 1, 0, 2
25Laura Gallagher25
25A. Contrarian15, 6, 0, 4
25godowneasy8, 5, 1, 0, 7, 3, 0, 1
25hotrod7, 012, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 4
25Silke David2, 1, 6, 1, 2, 0, 5, 2, 6
24Jo43, 1, 0, 4, 12
24karenovirus2, 4, 6, 0, 0, 12, 0, 0
24ConstantBees7, 12, 1, 3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0
22D B7, 8, 0, 7
22Bella0, 0, 3, 0, 1, 1, 3, 14
22Steve Martindale120, 0, 0, 0, 3, 2, 2, 3
21MizakeTheMizan28, 6, 5
21Tom Blackburn15, 1, 2, 1, 3, 0, 6, 0, 1, 0, 1
20AngloWelshDragon20
19Drawde9270, 3, 16
19JohnB141, 0, 4
19wendyk12, 2, 1, 4
19Kevin 23, 2, 7, 3, 2, 2, 0
18BTLnewbie0, 18
18Kev2, 16
18Lms239, 9
18NonCompliant414
18Strange Days7, 2, 3, 6
17Cristi.Neagu17
17Fed Up Fogey17
17Bugle1, 1, 0, 2, 1, 2, 1, 6, 0, 3
16Margaret16
15Chris John7, 8
15PWL7, 8
15watashi5, 10
15Ozzie1, 2, 12
15Stuart Barker0, 5, 10
15anon0, 7, 4, 3, 1
15Richard Pinch2, 1, 2, 0, 2, 6, 2
15crimsonpirate00, 0, 1, 8, 3, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1
14Liam2, 12
13Malpractice13
13Alethea9, 1, 3
12Hammer Onats12
12Margaret12
12Stephen⁹ Williams12
12ambwozere5, 7
12Telpin1, 3, 1, 7
11Bella11
11Thinkaboutit11
11aiden5, 6
11FatBastardMcKenzie92
11Jenny10, 1
11Matt The Cat0, 11
10Chris7910
10John Ballard10
10Nsklent10
10Rachel.C9, 1
10Steve6, 4
10Suzyv5, 5
10davews1, 2, 7
10Ruth Sharpe0, 2, 8
10Yawnyaman0, 7, 0, 2, 1
10Carrie0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 2, 2, 0, 3
9Alan P9
9IMoz9
96097 Smith W1, 8
9Quernus5, 4
9tallandbald7, 2
9bluemoon1, 5, 3
9Ewan Duffy45, 0
9Stringfellow Hawke2, 2, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2
8Barney McGrew8
8Dave8
8Laura Suckling17
8CGL0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 5, 0, 0
7Ricky R7
7James Leary #KBF25
7nfw1, 6
7assoc1, 4, 2
7Chris Hume3, 0, 4
7tonyspurs3, 2, 1, 1
6Bella Donna6
6dorset dumpling6
6Graham6
6Ovis6
6paulito6
6Charlie Blue3, 3
6MarieM6, 0
6arfurmo3, 1, 2
6NappyFace2, 0, 4
6steve_w3, 1, 2
6stewart0, 5, 0, 0, 1
5David5
5epythymy5
5john5
5Stringfellow Hawke5
5theanalyst5
5Lockdown Truth3, 2
5Lucan Grey3, 2
5Paul Steward3, 2
5DavidC41, 0
5Bruno1, 0, 3, 0, 0, 0, 1
4Country Mumkin4
4djc4
4imranandmichael4
4jim j4
4OKUK4
4PaulParanoia4
4Lili0, 4
4Toby Pierides3, 1
4BJJ1, 3, 0
4hat man3, 0, 1
4Ned of the Hills0, 0, 3, 1
4charleyfarley2, 0, 0, 1, 1
3Dom Baron3
3dpj3
3HelzBelz3
3john3
3John Stone3
3TJS1233
3guy1531, 2
3wat tyler0, 3
3stevie1190, 2, 1, 0
2alw2
2Csaba2
2DJ Dod2
2Fed up2
2Henry2
2James2
2Lord Rickmansworth2
2Penny Fulton2
2Tarfu2
2Tee Ell2
2thedarkhorse2
2Ed Phillips1, 1
2fiery2, 0
2jrsm2, 0
2NickR20
2rational actor0, 0, 2
1allanmacrae1
1bluefreddy1
1JohnB1
1Locked down and out1
1muzzle1
1nottingham691
1Richard1
1steve1
1Youth_Unheard1
1smurfs1, 0
1David Grimbleby0, 1, 0
1Phoneutria0, 0, 1
1John P3, 2, 0, 1, 5, -16, 6
0Arkansas0
0Cheshirecatslave0
0cloud60
0hat man0
0JamesDrebin0
0KBuchanan0
0Keen Cook0
0Marina Peerman0
0Miss Owl0
0Montag Smith0
0The Filthy Engineer0
02 pence0, 0
0Biker0, 0, 0
0Steeve0, 0, 0

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