Last updated2020-09-16T17:40:00



132291 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 16, #1 of 1791 🔗

I won… yay!

132292 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to TyLean, 1, #2 of 1791 🔗


132303 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Londo Mollari, 46, #3 of 1791 🔗

It is clear that the Prime Ministers decision to go into lockdown in March was the worst decision ever made by a British Prime Minister. It was not done based on any science but on pure panic based on press hysteria. The consequences for the economy, people lives (cancer deaths don’t seem to matter), and freedoms have been disastrous. The reported deaths from Covid have risen and fallen in much the same way around the world, whether or not lockdowns have been on place.

Peru has been on strict military lockdown since March but has a far higher death rate than no lockdown Brazil.

What is shocking is the policies have been copied directly from the Chinese Communist Party, the most murderous organisation in history. Every new lockdown policy is cruel and unnecessary. They based not based on science but based on loaded questions in opinion polls and focus groups.

“Would you stand on one leg and fine anyone who didn’t stand on one leg if it stopped a deadly Second Wave?”

From the start there have been large number of reputable doctors talking out against the Lockdown for example Dr John Lee in the Spectator. (Dr John Lee is a former professor of pathology and NHS consultant pathologist.) The PCR tests for COVID have not been peer reviewed and show many false positives..

I would recommend these two videos:

Viral Issue Crucial Update Sept 8th: the Science, Logic and Data Explained!
The ultimate update on our viral issue, bar none – Sept 8th 2020 . Ivor Cummins

E p85 Viral Realities Revealed: Dr John Lee, Pathology Professor – Ivor Cummins

“Excellent conversation with a hero of mine – retired Professor of Pathology Dr. John Lee. He has written such common-sense and yet exceptionally scientific articles on this seasonal viral challenge in The Spectator Magazine, since late March. I found these articles and realized there was at least one other person in UK/Ireland who understood what the hell was going on – a relief I must say!

We cover mortality risk realities, the evidence supporting Lockdown being an effective intervention, the ethics and philosophy of it all – and exactly WHY such challenges remain.

The technical reality is nothing like that portrayed in the media – that’s for sure.”
Ivor Cummins”

132305 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #4 of 1791 🔗

Why do you always tag your posts onto someone else’s despite being completely unrelated ?

132306 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to karenovirus, 9, #5 of 1791 🔗

It’s hard to aim the mouse at this time of day.

132576 ▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to karenovirus, 7, #6 of 1791 🔗

It’s one way of getting your post near the top of the page 🙂

132664 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #7 of 1791 🔗

It is clear that the Prime Ministers decision to go into lockdown in March was the worst decision ever made by a British Prime Minister.”

Well … there’s a few other contenders. But it’s certainly up there, and arguably surpassing in its domestic effects, events like Suez, the Poll Tax and Iraq.

133581 ▶▶▶▶▶ Olaf Felts, replying to RickH, 4, #8 of 1791 🔗

Sadly he’s not finished yet – Lockdown 2 The Sequel is just around the corner. The cabal that passes for a Government has passed the stupidity threshold into the lunacy zone. Little redemption from there.

132293 ▶▶ Basics, replying to TyLean, 15, #9 of 1791 🔗

No more masks! No more keeping the elderly confined. Love it!


132298 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 10, #10 of 1791 🔗

Needs a 2,000 strong flashmob doing that outside Parliament.

132337 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 38, #11 of 1791 🔗

That would be great. I’ve noticed in the past week or so many elderly people ditching the masks. And yesterday one of my ‘reckless’ customers gave up the table she was sitting at (to free up for others – how thoughtful) and moved to sit with (OMG) another customer who she did not know but who she had struck up a conversation with. (I was too busy to deal with this contravention!).

132374 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 16, #12 of 1791 🔗

Your café ought to be named ‘The Sanity Café’!

132380 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 5, #13 of 1791 🔗

Woohoo!!! Agree with Annie about changing the name of your cafe!

132396 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #14 of 1791 🔗

The Sceptics, perhaps?

This is what I hate about this, small ordinary, everyday things that we all once used to take for granted are given more significance (as, I think, Lisa in Toronto mentioned about your ‘normalish’ day yesterday Bart) because they are now not everyday occurrences.

132578 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 10, #15 of 1791 🔗

Like that name!!

Agree. It just goes to show how even ordinary, every day stuff has become such a faff that any sign of sanity and normality is now seen as a small victory.

132873 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to kh1485, 5, #16 of 1791 🔗

Like the Ice Cube song: “I have to say it was a good day, I didn’t have to use my AK”.

When something horrifying doesn’t happen and it becomes worthy of note and indeed celebration.


133597 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to kh1485, 1, #17 of 1791 🔗

Where, roughly, is your establishment? I hope it is in the East Midlands because I would love to pay you a visit.

134091 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Will, #18 of 1791 🔗

Sorry, North West Essex …

132638 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Basics, 2, #19 of 1791 🔗

Killing a gran or grandad? go figure ! .. brilliant

132294 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #20 of 1791 🔗

For your convenience I’ll leave this here so you don’t miss it. It is from from Toby’s excellent Roundup section. Research Scientists –

“Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route”


“[…] Nonetheless, SARS-CoV-2 shows biological characteristics that are inconsistent with a naturally occurring, zoonotic virus. In this report, we describe the genomic, structural, medical, and literature evidence, which, when considered together, strongly contradicts the natural origin theory. The evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 should be a laboratory product created by using bat coronaviruses ZC45 and/or ZXC21 as a template and/or backbone. Building upon the evidence, we further postulate a synthetic route for SARS-CoV-2, demonstrating that the laboratory-creation of this coronavirus is convenient and can be accomplished in approximately six months. Our work emphasizes the need for an independent investigation into the relevant research laboratories. It also argues for a critical look into certain recently published data, which, albeit problematic, was used to support and claim a natural origin of SARS-CoV-2. From a public health perspective, these actions are necessary as knowledge of the origin of SARS-CoV-2 and of how the virus entered the human population are of pivotal importance in the fundamental control of the COVID-19 pandemic as well as in preventing similar, future pandemics.”

132301 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 2, #21 of 1791 🔗

As a none Scientific type I’ll wait for someone to make sense of that for me.

132486 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to karenovirus, 2, #22 of 1791 🔗

It is bolloxspeak masking the idea that the novel behind the pretext is a bioweapon – leaked, injected or escaping all by itself from ‘gain of function’ research (which means developing bioweapons under pretext of your enemies will do it, so you have to get there first so as to develop a defence…

But the ‘whole’ virus mapped out is reconstituted from fragments of who knows what using computers.

Corporate-led Science – or rather technologism in a mask of science, is going off-planet as it retreats into computer models and novel novels rather than face empirical fact. – or is that lose face to the evidences that do not support the invested (control) model of what is actually happening.

The circular reasoning of a revolving door sets up systems that DO the thing they are supposed to defend against.

Toxifying the body – and mind – DOES the breakdown of immune function and DOES the conditions that the body tries to clear through what we call ‘sickness’ and attack.

132498 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Binra, #23 of 1791 🔗

Is that an assesment after reading the paper or just a generalisation?

133737 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #24 of 1791 🔗

It’s from the abstract.

132549 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Binra, 1, #25 of 1791 🔗

As does locking yourself indoors to hide from the Covid, breakdown the immune system.

132852 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Binra, #26 of 1791 🔗

Well said.

132585 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 10, #27 of 1791 🔗

Certainly the premise that the ‘natural theory’ is mysterious and incomplete is true. It has not been described adequately – we all know it’s a foggy beginning. Perhaps we are already resigned to never know much about the orgin SARS CoV 2 – I find that surprising, our thoughts have already formed on the matter.

Within the body they make the claim that RaTG13 being found is probably fraudulent, bat’s have not been found welcoming hosts to it. Further, they say that it is likely to have been used to hide the presence of ZC45/ZXC21.

They give three lines of main evidence.

1. The genomic sequence of SARS CoV 2 is suspiciously similar to that of a bat coronavirus discovered by military labs Chongqing, China and Nanjing Gina.

2. The receptor binding motif RBM within the Spike protien of SARS CoV 2 that determines host specifity, resembkes thay of a 2003 SARS CoV epidemic in a suspicious manner. Genomic evidence suggests the RBM has been genetically manipulated.

3. SARS CoV 2 contains a unique furin-cleavage site in its Spike protien – this site is completely absent in this class of coronavirus found in nature. In addition rare codons associated with this additional sequence suggest the furin-cleavage site is not the product of natural evolution. They say it could have been inserted into the genome artifucially by techniques other than simple serial passage or mulit strain combination events inside cultures or animals.

I am not qualified to judge the merit of any of the paper. But as we get to grips with what this thing called SARS CoV 2 is it seems reasonable to assess all possibilities. The paper is not from the darkest corner of the internet, it is well written and presented and poses some substantially interesting points. Toby posted it, that in itself gives it some merit.

It makes no claims about intention or speculation of purpose. What it does say it backs up by presenting evidence. The scientific method at work.

If a qualified person comes along and can dismiss everything because of a huge fallacy it’s right to move on. Until it is read and understood, I see this exploration of what SARS CoV 2 is as advantageous. It promotes analysis and doesn’t waste time. At least that is how my-uneducated-self sees it.

The paper includes a sentence: Rather, it is the smoking gun that provides the RBM/Spike of SARS CoV 2 is a product of genetic manipulation.

133291 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, 2, #28 of 1791 🔗

Well I’m not a biologist either. But the 3 authors all claim to have PhDs from something called the ‘Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation NY’.
So apparently no scientific qualifications. Anyone else heard of these authors, are they scientists – maybe disaffected Taiwanese? Or is this fake news/propaganda?.
The ‘Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation NY’ has a website: https://rolfoundation.org/en/
Stated aims are::

  • Vision
  • To permit the people of China to live under a national system based on the rule of law, independent of the political system of the People’s Republic of China (“China”).
  • Mission
  • To expose corruption, obstruction, illegality, brutality, false imprisonment, excessive sentencing,harassment, and inhumanity pervasive in the political, legal, business and financial systems of China.
  • Core Values
  • To practice high ethical standards of integrity and accountability;
  • To bring justice to the people in China;
  • To protect and assist individuals victimized in China, particularly those penalized for speaking out against injustice;
  • To promote freedom of speech, media and general public’s supervision of the government activities.

And if you go to the FAQs page, you find:

  • 1. What is the corporate nature of the Rule of Law Foundation?
  • Similar to many other charity organizations, the Rule of Law Foundation is a non-profit corporation set up to comply with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) Code §501 (c)(3). Since it is domiciled in New York State, it also exists under the supervision of the New York State Attorney General’s office.
  • 4. What is the procedure for reporting corruption and illegal activities in China and how long should I expect, before I receive a reply?
  • Any person providing information to the Rule of Law Foundation may submit the relevant information to the following channels:
  • a) Email us at whistleblower@rolfoundation.org .
  • b) Send us the information via USPS, UPS, or FedEx to 162 East 64th Street, New York, NY 10065.

So not an academic institution at all.

133358 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bruno, #29 of 1791 🔗

So that is that dealt with. Wonder why it made it to LS.

133434 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #30 of 1791 🔗

Interesting background thanks. I think they have Taiwanese names. Yan can be pinyin (the word for colour for example) but the name is a different character (苑 possibly) and would probably be written “Yuan” if you were from PRC.

133575 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, 3, #31 of 1791 🔗

Are you aware of the comments of Yves Montagnier (the 2008 Nobel Prize-winning virologist who dicovered the HIV virus)? He stated that the virus could not have arisen naturally, and that it was created in a lab. And that the virus included a sequence from the HIV virus.

I don’t think anybody from the scientific community believes the Wuhan fish market story.

133576 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #32 of 1791 🔗

They dont believe the HIV from bushmeat hunting, either.

133699 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #33 of 1791 🔗

Thank you

132613 ▶▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to karenovirus, 5, #34 of 1791 🔗

It means if CV was made in a lab, then the ‘second wave’ is just coming off the production line….

133741 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tony Prince, #35 of 1791 🔗

Hence Gates’ giggle!

133736 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #36 of 1791 🔗

It basically says that the official line re the origin of the virus is a big lie which needs exposing.

133388 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Basics, 2, #37 of 1791 🔗

A couple of things stand out as a bit bogus in what they’re claiming.

First, it is alarming but true that Ren and Shi and others were successfully genetically modifing bat viruses in the Wuhan lab by inserting bits of the SARS1 spike to see if it made them better at sticking to human ACE2. It did. This was in 2008. You can read the paper (it’s one of the references in the Yan Report).

But when they did that they used a “codon-optimized” spike gene from SARS1. A genetic code is a sequence of nucleotides (GATTACA that kind of thing). Each sequence of three of those letters codes for 1 out of a possible 20 amino acids. But there are 64 ways to make groups of 3 nucleotides (these groups of 3 are called “codons”), more than the 20 you need, and the way it works is that there are two or three different “synonyms” for each amino acid. Some of those synonyms are used more in particular animals than others. It’s like inside a human the code usually says “large” rather than “big” but in a bat “big” is more common. They mean the same and you get the same amino acid but “large” may be more efficient inside a human so when you “codon-optimize” you change all the occurrences of “big” for “large”.

Now if SARS2 contained the SARS1 spike but codon-optimized for humans that would really be a smoking gun. But it doesn’t, it has the bat version. And it isn’t exactly the same. So the genetic engineering theory relies on a deliberate attempt to conceal what was happening. If it was research of the kind Ren was doing in 2008 that escaped from the lab by mistake the gene would be exactly the same as SARS1 only codon-optimized. It’s neither.

Their theory also relies on the idea that the RaTG13 bat virus, which is more closely related to SARS2, and various pangolin viruses, are a fraud and a conspiracy.

So you have to buy into quite a lot of baggage to justify their claims.

133837 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #38 of 1791 🔗

It’s an elaborate piece of propaganda nonetheless. I speculated on the Taiwan connection without knowing Chinese (Mandarin I presume), interesting there may be some sort of corroboration. Thinking back, I recollect this, or a very similar, paper some time ago, emphasising the furin cleavage issue, and it being rubbished (probably by you!) back then.

133858 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #39 of 1791 🔗


Ha ha, actually could have saved time by consulting Wiki first:

‘…Later in September, Yan co-authored a pre-print research paper named “Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route.”[27] Three other researchers were listed as co-authors, but the SCMP was unable to find any prior work from them. [28] The paper was uploaded to the Zenodo website, an open-access repository where anyone can post their research.[29] The paper is affiliated with the Rule of Law Society, founded by Steve Bannon and Guo Wengui.[27][29] The Rule of Law Society had not previously published scientific or medical research. [29] Yan had previously appeared on Bannon’s “War Room” podcast.[28][29]

According to the paper’s abstract, “SARS-CoV-2 shows biological characteristics that are inconsistent with a naturally occurring, zoonotic virus” and that it could have been created in a lab in approximately six months.[30][31] According to Newsweek, several experts in evolutionary biology and infectious disease, including Jonathan Eisen and Carl Bergstrom, said the paper did not include new information, contained multiple unsubstantiated claims and had a weak scientific case .[27] According to Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University, the paper was “basically all circumstantial and some of it is entirely fictional “.

Memo to self – always try Wiki!

133995 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #40 of 1791 🔗

“Yuan” is the standard transliteration of Mandarin. “Yan” may be the same thing but in a different dialect that was/is used in Taiwan. People stick to those spellings in their surnames sometimes even if they don’t use the actual dialects they come from much any more. The communists in PRC of course officially banned anything that wasn’t Mandarin ages ago.

The other paper I remember is the withdrawn HIV one, which I didn’t find convincing, as the genetic similarities with HIV are practically non-existent (and can be explained by chance– HIV has as much in common with pretty much any virus).

This is the scary paper from 2008: https://jvi.asm.org/content/82/4/1899

They were hacking bat viruses to make them infect human cells (just to understand better how that works). But they weren’t actually making fully-fledged coronaviruses that could have escaped by mistake but “pseudoviruses”, which can’t replicate, and would look nothing like SARS-CoV-2 if for some reason they could.

133857 ▶▶ justinErtia, replying to Basics, #41 of 1791 🔗

Without having read the paper, the brief publicity of it seems to me to chime with other academics who have also pondered on the likelihood of labs manipulating a bat originated virus. Bret Weinstein and Yuri Deigin: Did Covid-19 leak From a Lab? was a particularly interesting 2 hour deep-dive here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5SRrsr-Iug

I for one, am definitely open to persuasion that an accident occured where studies were being carried out.

132295 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 10, #42 of 1791 🔗

A Survival Guide For Decent Folk pt.1 of 3

(From former blogger Inspector Gadget who told of things within the Met Police before being capriciously outed by a Times hack. It presumes that your belligerent is a member of the underclass but serves just as well for s confrontation with the Police themselves.)

“I thought it would be a good idea to give out a bit of general advice to those law abiding types who find themselves under suspicion or under arrest.

Complain First.
Always get your complaint in first, even if it is you who started it and you were in the wrong. If things have gone awry and you think the cops are going to be called, get your retaliation in first. Ring the cops and allege for all you are worth. If you can work in a racist or homophobic slant into it so much the better.

Make A Counter Allegation.
Regardless of the facts, never let the other side be blameless. If they beat you to the phone, ring anyway and make a counter Allegation against them. Again racism and homophobia are your friends. If you are not from a visible minority ethnic culture. . the phrase “you gay bastard” or similar is always useful.
In extremis allege sexual assault.

Never Explain To The Police.
If the Police arrive to lock you up, say nothing. You are a decent person who may think that reasoning with the Police will help.
“If only I can explain, they will realise it is all a horrible mistake and go away”.
Wrong. We do want to talk to you on tape in an interview room but that comes later.
All that you are doing is digging yourself further in.
We call that stuff a ‘significant statement’ and we love it.
Decent Folk can’t help themselves”

Admit Nothing (to be continued pt 2).

c. Inspector Gadget approx. 2010

132392 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to karenovirus, 12, #43 of 1791 🔗

There is a useful piece of advice on the LaworFiction website. Never accept a caution because if you do you will have a criminal record. Let the case go to court. There is a current backlog of more than 10,000 cases and it will take decades to hear them all.

132419 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basileus, 7, #44 of 1791 🔗

And in the end they will have to drop many of them. Look at those fines for breaking social distancing guidelines – they have been rescinded by the courts.

132451 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basileus, 1, #45 of 1791 🔗

There was some chat about that yesterday which is why i put this up.
There is more which I’ll try to put up later my, copy is windows notepad so it’s time consuming typing it manually on Android and just now I’m out and about.

132653 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Basileus, #46 of 1791 🔗

I was trying to remember that earlier – useful info – thank you.

132296 john, replying to john, 29, #47 of 1791 🔗

Funny how the masks and social distancing doesn’t seem to stop flu…Luckily, the 100 billion dollars (to quote Austin Powers) track and trace scheme is off to a good start, and now people have to wait till January to get tested to see if they have a killer virus that is harmless 99.9% of the time, and without the testing is barely noticeable. You couldn’t make this stuff up…meanwhile, someone please give Noel Gallagher an OBE for saying it exactly as it is…i love the sandwich quote. And thanks to all on this site (and Peter Hitchens blog too), for keeping me sane in an increasingly insane world, and for the Irish times, for this article and the following sentence:

“The occasion was graced by the Taoiseach and Tánaiste and in the middle of them the Minister for Health, who looked a little flushed. The third leg of this increasingly rickety coalition stool – we used to mean that in the furniture sense, not so sure now – was absent.”



132302 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to john, 20, #48 of 1791 🔗

Noel Gallagher is not exactly at the top of my hit parade but hopefully some of his legions of admirers will take note.

132330 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 25, #49 of 1791 🔗

Mine neither, but he nails it absolutely. Foolhardy the person who challenged him on the train!

132406 ▶▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to kh1485, 3, #50 of 1791 🔗

Nor me. Was looking forward to hearing it but podcast has already been censored /removed

132816 ▶▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Cbird, 1, #51 of 1791 🔗
132950 ▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to karenovirus, 5, #52 of 1791 🔗

and this is really what swear words are for

132326 ▶▶ annie, replying to john, 16, #53 of 1791 🔗

The DM article is worth reading. Shambles reshambled. So are the comments. Two questions repeatedly asked: 1. Why can’t they do more tests? 2. Why are people so keen to be tested?
Both are valid: the first because of the stupid rules that you can’t do xyz until you’ve been tested (but if you test ‘positive’ you and all around you will be incarcerated and unable to do xyz anyway), the second because testing
is not just pointless but actively harmful, in that it produces musleading results that lead to more zombie panic.
By the way, the moon is made of green cheese and green cheese is notorious for harbouring coronaviruses, especially when shot at.

132335 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 9, #54 of 1791 🔗

I believe the shortage of tests is imaginary, similar to new build blocks of flats with signs saying ‘Almost All Sold’.
Trying to create a wave of demand from fomo types.

132338 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 1, #55 of 1791 🔗

And when it’s in Caerphilly.

132375 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 2, #56 of 1791 🔗

Caerphilly cheese isn’t made in Caerphilly any more, but it’s still full of Greencheeseovirus. Be very afraid!

132560 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, 1, #57 of 1791 🔗

Caerphilly cheese isn’t made in Caerphilly any more

I’m devastated. 🙁

132658 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to john, 16, #58 of 1791 🔗

I never thought I’d big it up for one of the Gallagher brothers, despite being an Oasis fan. But that man has dispelled all the irritation I felt about him before, after saying EXACTLY what needs to be said. He needs to be given the “Balls Of The Week” award (hope I don’t upset the mods with that!)

132875 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to HelenaHancart, 5, #60 of 1791 🔗

He’s a legend. Always speaks his mind, no matter what anyone thinks.

It’s about staying real over all of it. I always find it’s a healthy mix of confidence, aggression, to not suffer fools easily and ultimately love. Because they want you to just say what you feel and respect you for it. Regardless.

Love this Liam nugget about people who say ‘Let’s go for one beer’


133060 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to HelenaHancart, 5, #61 of 1791 🔗

I’m not really an Oasis fan, Noel has written a few decent songs but my tastes are less conventional. However it’s good to hear him speak his mind at this time.

132299 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 11, #62 of 1791 🔗

With Covid/of Covid which tbtb pretend not to mean different things.
On Monday afternoon Radio 2s pet Dr. Sarah Jarvis was explaining at great length to a caller that from what she had said it sounded as though her relative had died With pancreatic cancer rather than Of pancreatic cancer .
“it’s important to know that these are two very different things”

So they do understand the concept after all.

132308 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 8, #63 of 1791 🔗

So if somebody shoots you through the heart you die with a bullet?

132311 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 3, #64 of 1791 🔗

They might say you died of a bullet ?

132316 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 5, #65 of 1791 🔗

With Covid and a bullet.
Of heart failure?

132660 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to annie, 4, #66 of 1791 🔗

ah you’ve met my ex too

133005 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, 3, #67 of 1791 🔗

Now that you mention it, I think the concept is pretty common in cancer circles. I certainly heard it when I did lots of research when I had cancer, although it wasn’t applicable to what I had. Some cancers are slow growing and the medics will tell you that you will most likely die with it (it not having killed you), rather than of it.

132300 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 42, #68 of 1791 🔗

Tony’s stop press from The Maskless One completely matches my own experience but yesterday was slightly different.

I went to the convenience store a little later than usual. While at the counter I became aware of 3 masked karens behind me muttering and twitching in disapproval, how (shop owner) should sort it (me) out.
I’ve caught the school run and their sprogs are running around ignoring social distancing !

What they don’t know is that because I do some shopping for my infirm neighbour 3 or 4 days a week (40 fags to start with) I frequently spend more than fifty quid a time in that shop which far outweighs any number of lollipops and raffle tickets they might buy.

On my way out something rather odd happened. Despite not being decrepit and with just one shopping bag, one of the sprogs walked towards the door and opened it for me.
“Thank you very much”
‘that’s alright’ he replied.
I have no idea why he did that, maybe he thinks mum is embarrassing him with her face pantie.

132640 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to karenovirus, 13, #69 of 1791 🔗

“Face Pantie” Yes! That’s exactly what they look like, especially the preety, flowery ones, like knickers across your face! On the subject of us non-maskies getting positive reactions from shop workers, I find this is very much the case (once past some of the door harridans.) They actually look relieved to be engaging with someone with a face. Christ knows what damage this is doing to shopworker’s psyches in the long term. In fact I’ve had some really nice mini chats whilst the farce marskers behind huff and puff – out of anger, or because they’re out of breath?

132707 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to HelenaHancart, 14, #70 of 1791 🔗

Unmasked till workers always greet us with a big smile – and look at us, and hold eye contact and engage with us beyond the call of duty. There is no doubt that our own smiling faces are a tonic to them. Win-win!

132825 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to HelenaHancart, 1, #71 of 1791 🔗

Masks are very unusual in that shop, must be a school gates thing and yes, they were all preety, looked like they had been cut from flowerery curtains.

132908 ▶▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to karenovirus, 7, #72 of 1791 🔗

yes, very pretty: polka dots and all sorts of wild flowers and stuff. The message is: my other panties are just as nice

132304 karenovirus, 7, #73 of 1791 🔗

I took a drive around the University district yesterday, to my surprise there was no display of Covid Safety signage at all. I had been expecting hoardings announcing
‘You Are Entering A Covid Safety Zone’
listing the usual bullet points but none of it even though there are numerous posts that usually have flags boasting “University of The Year” or whatever.
There is a marquee and a few gazebos on The Plaza but that is normal for Freshers Week.

Only a few students are have arrived but none are yet venturing into town. Those wandering around campus are about 75% unmasked. I did see one group of about 20 unmasked girls walking down the hill together in much the same way as usual.

I’m told that the occupants of a student house with 10 residents count as one household so they can legally be together outdoors, including on the highway, but may not make contact with anybody else unless they splinter away from the group. Can see problems for Covid Marshals there.

Local Live online has a report of complaints about a student party in a Hall Of Residence (wrongly named) accompanied with photo of about 40 students gathered round the back. The report can’t decide if the complainant is a fellow student or a local so I think it’s invented just like the supposed 214k ‘likes’ (probably hasn’t had 214k page visits and that photo could easily be stock).

132307 Incorrigible Skeptic, replying to Incorrigible Skeptic, 62, #74 of 1791 🔗

So glad to have discovered this site: it’s superb, and I wish I’d found it weeks ago. But how is it still up?! I’m amazed WP haven’t nuked it.

Lots of great articles today, but the bombshell is the boring-looking one with the table of figures.


The incidence of positives in the government’s new testing drive (~1.5%) turns out to be less than the government’s own estimated rate of false positives (~2.5%). So according to government’s own data, the positives which are being reported are likely all false .

This is dynamite. Every MP in the country should be told this.

132315 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Incorrigible Skeptic, 40, #75 of 1791 🔗

Not much point if their level of understanding is that of Sir Gary Streeter MP. (Toby’s text).

“We have suffered 42,000 excessive deaths”.
Whatever that is supposed to mean.

132318 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 20, #76 of 1791 🔗

Deader deaths than other deaths?

132894 ▶▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to annie, 4, #77 of 1791 🔗

or excessively sad deaths

133440 ▶▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to annie, 4, #78 of 1791 🔗

An excessive death, I thought, was one conducted in a melodramatic fashion.

132322 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 19, #79 of 1791 🔗

Oops, sorry, forgot to say welcome aboard, left, right, inbetweenie, we don’t care.

132785 ▶▶▶▶ Drummerman, replying to karenovirus, 11, #80 of 1791 🔗

‘Left, right, inbetweenie’ … they’re all the same. Vote Lab/Lib/Con and get the same thing. They’re in it for themselves; trained by Common Purpose and in thrall to a world where the rest of us don’t matter.

132325 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 18, #81 of 1791 🔗

That is the nightmare with our politicians, not just that they do not understand things like statistics and science but they then ridicule them, ignore them until they are forced to use them and then go with the most blinkered ‘wild eyed; crazy scientists they can find and accept all they are told without trying to evaluate it.

I have always struggled with statistics and in this hoo-haa have been grateful for people like Tim Harford (More or Less) and Carl Heneghan for some guidance but I still try and do a reality check on what they are saying.

The worst of this problem is with the PCR tests used for this crazy test/trace programme. The politicians think they have found the back/white speed camera for SARS-Cov2 and the pure scientists just go along with this and nobody thinks to examine the practicality and suitability of using the test in this way. How do we stop this cycle of testing insanity?

132343 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #82 of 1791 🔗

I got an ‘0’ level pass in stats which h is enough to make sense of graphs and charts but it’s good to be here where folks can spell out their significance.

Tim Harford was on Jeremy Vines show yesterday, pretty insipid interview but he did say

“I’m not sure that there will be a second Wave’.

132914 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bob, replying to karenovirus, 3, #83 of 1791 🔗

A wispy washy response from the BBC fav celeb statistician. Enough doubt that they will let it through their acceptable programming filter. Don’t bite the had that feeds you mentality

132353 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Steve Martindale, 13, #84 of 1791 🔗

More or Less is another programme from the pedophile BBC, why the fuck would you believe a word these fuckers say?

132365 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Biker, 7, #85 of 1791 🔗

More or Less is usually fairly good at getting the statistics right . Unfortunately it does suffer from having to follow the BBC stance and so often the comments and editorial is on message

132474 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 6, #86 of 1791 🔗

They were talking about how far people were having to go for tests. Johnson was quoted as saying 20 miles yo wancocks 6.6, the weasel used ‘mean’ so excluded very long journeys.
Both excluded those who couldn’t
Or didn’t bother to go at all but the whole ‘crisis’ is manufactured bullshit anyway.

133248 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Biker, 1, #87 of 1791 🔗

Ah, my Lord Biker; glad to see you again. I was missing your words of encouragement.

132553 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #88 of 1791 🔗

By refusing to be tested.

132977 ▶▶▶ Incorrigible Skeptic, replying to karenovirus, 16, #89 of 1791 🔗

Not much point if their level of understanding is that of Sir Gary Streeter MP. (Toby’s text).

I yield to no man in my disdain for politicians but his reply shocked even me — when did politicians start openly insulting (in print, no less) the people on whom they rely to elect them? MPs always used to write insincere but emollient replies even to their harshest critics, yet now it appears even that pretense has been abandoned. The mask is truly off.

133185 ▶▶▶ JamesDrebin, replying to karenovirus, 7, #90 of 1791 🔗

I looked him up on Tw*tter; I conclude he is a May-ite absolute fake Conservative (Fauxservative) plant. Yuck.

132317 ▶▶ annie, replying to Incorrigible Skeptic, 23, #91 of 1791 🔗

Welcome! We are all incorrigible sceptics here. And teeming with graphs, tables, and other useful data, not to mention anecdotes, jokes, cries of grief, screams of rage, and the occasional bit of Deathless Verse.
It all helps.

132354 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 5, #92 of 1791 🔗

you forgot the shills, we love them too.

132377 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 1, #93 of 1791 🔗

Of course!

132928 ▶▶▶ Incorrigible Skeptic, replying to annie, 1, #94 of 1791 🔗


Thank you, Annie!

132434 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Incorrigible Skeptic, 12, #95 of 1791 🔗

Welcome to this oasis of rationality and sanity. As many others have eloquently put you will find lots of useful info in here should you wish to spread the Gospel of Lockdown Scepticism together with the following:

  • The Book of the Dangers of Mask Wearing
  • The Book of Dodgy Statistics
  • The Book of Contradictory Information
  • The Book of Useful Information (Law or Fiction)
  • The Book of Revelation (2020 version)
132930 ▶▶▶ Incorrigible Skeptic, replying to Bart Simpson, #96 of 1791 🔗

Welcome to this oasis of rationality and sanity.

Cheers, Bart!

133037 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Incorrigible Skeptic, 4, #97 of 1791 🔗

Killer fact # 2 was that:
Pillar 1 tests (accurate tests conducted in hospitals) had 0.45% positive.
Pillar 2 tests conducted in the community have 1.7% positive.
So, odd bods getting tested out & about are 4x more likely to be tested positive than those having a kosher test in hospital! Or, could this be false positives?

132309 Rosser, replying to Rosser, 8, #98 of 1791 🔗

Looks like the Noel Gallagher podcast is gone from YouTube already 🙁

132401 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Rosser, 5, #99 of 1791 🔗

Removed by the uploader rather than by YouTube. NME clearly doesn’t believe in freedom of speech. Sad times for what was once a publication with some standards.

132405 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Julian, #100 of 1791 🔗

Are they now ‘woke’ too then?

132416 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Julian, 4, #101 of 1791 🔗

Not NME.that removed it. The article just quoted them . This was a podcast done by Matt Morgan for Radio X.. It was them that removed it .

But if you want to listen ,,,

132443 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to mjr, 1, #102 of 1791 🔗

Ah, thanks

132495 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to mjr, 1, #103 of 1791 🔗


132571 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 2, #104 of 1791 🔗

Excellent, thank you. Noel knows the difference between rights and Liberties.

132665 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Julian, 4, #105 of 1791 🔗

Bleedin’ hell! whatever has happened to the anti everything rebel fuck you stance of rock music? if it is still called that. I wonder what ace curmudgeon Mark E Smith would have made of coronabollox?

132310 annie, replying to annie, 19, #107 of 1791 🔗

Just posted the following comment under the BBC article on Pritti Horrible’s encouragement to dob blasphemers against the Holy Rule of Six:

“Read this quickly before it’s removed.
The above debate about doctors is clearly off topic, but the drift is not sceptical.
The topic is the rule of six.
Am I OK so far?
Now I call the rule of six draconian, cruel, and wrong. I’m sceptical.
Bingo! My comment is censored.”

It’s survived ten minutes, but then, it’s very early in the morning, when almost nobody will be reading .

132312 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 2, #108 of 1791 🔗

Some underpaid junior media analyst sleeping on the job there.

132693 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to annie, 5, #109 of 1791 🔗

Apparently it’s also not OK to compare the UK gov approach to restrictions with Germany in the 30s and 40s.

I captured this yesterday:

1. Posted by The view from my window
on 4 minutes ago
Wikipedia says:

Under Hitler’s rule, Germany quickly became a totalitarian state where nearly all aspects of life were controlled by the government.

It needs to add the following:

Under Johnson’s rule, the United Kingdom quickly became a totalitarian state where nearly all aspects of life were controlled by the government.

And then:
1. Posted by The view from my window
on 2 hours ago

 This comment was removed because it broke the house rules. Explain

So the BBC consider that comparison of the behaviour of the UK Government to Hitler’s Germany breaks the “house rules”? Seems like a fair and honest comment to me.

133119 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 3, #110 of 1791 🔗

It is interesting how it was entirely reasonable to compare Johnson to Hitler last year.

132313 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 32, #111 of 1791 🔗

Check his CV:

“After university, Hancock briefly worked for his family’s computer software company and for a backbench Conservative MP, before moving to London to work as an economist at the Bank of England, specialising in the housing market. In 2005, he became an economic adviser to the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne, later becoming Osborne’s chief of staff.”

Most modern politicians have a similar background. It explains so much.

They’ve turned something that has been no worse than a bad flu season into the worst economic, cancer death, suicide, personal liberty crisis we have have seen.

132324 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 11, #112 of 1791 🔗

I presume he only made the tea when he worked for the family company – I seriously doubt he’s got the capacity to develop software.

132378 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #113 of 1791 🔗

Or type on a keyboard.

132654 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #114 of 1791 🔗

I think making tea might be too difficult for him

133152 ▶▶▶ DickieA, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #115 of 1791 🔗

He certainly doesn’t have the capacity to develop software. He’s a Computer User (Non Technical)…..

133286 ▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to DickieA, #116 of 1791 🔗

I see what you did there 😉

133415 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Andrew Fish, #117 of 1791 🔗

He’s capable of making tea?!

132333 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #118 of 1791 🔗

‘specialising in the housing market.’

Just before the housing market crashed and the sub prime mortgages came to light

Couldn’t make it up

132341 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Cecil B, 3, #119 of 1791 🔗

I bet he gets on with Ferguson like a house on fire…

132415 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cecil B, #120 of 1791 🔗

They’re all crooks

132351 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 16, #121 of 1791 🔗

He’s not. You think that unless twat has the power to do this? He’s doing the work of people you don’t know because we don’t live in a free country any more and haven’t done since the day of the coup against Mrs Thatcher. Britain was occupied the day she was got rid of and are now nothing more than a piss poor island full of fat braindead fucks and savages from 7th century countries allowed here to destroy us.

132383 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Biker, 8, #122 of 1791 🔗

It makes my heart sing to see my feelings so eloquently described by your piss and vinegar soaked quill

132399 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #123 of 1791 🔗

There is a job which requires no experience and no qualifications: Member of Parliament.

132413 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basileus, 11, #124 of 1791 🔗

When i had the chance to accost my mp about the child abuse problem in parliament (and elsewhere)

She was busy yelling, “i’m a criminal barrister” (presumably to impress the small number of people present)

With some internal restraint i managed to refrain from bleating out, “indeed most barristers are criminal, how refreshing to meet an honest mp”

132667 ▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to anon, 1, #125 of 1791 🔗

<broad smile>

132407 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #126 of 1791 🔗

A few of us were discussing Handsy Hancock’s CV yesterday (the discussion revolved around the usefulness or otherwise of PPE degrees). His CV is ‘unusual’. Although he is not of my generation, I would proffer, based on what I know about PPE and Oxford graduate prospects, he went to work for his family computer business because he could not get a job – the timing of the move to the BoE is odd, unless he literally worked for the family firm for a few months between June and September just after graduating. Was he employed by BoE, or was he working as a contractor on behalf of his family’s computer firm? He certainly seems to be pretty well connected, and has moved effortlessly into advisory positions for various Tory MPs.

132454 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #127 of 1791 🔗

Wancock’s background is symptomatic of MPs and many in the Establishment today.

Never has been there such a greater disconnect between the government and its people today than it was in the past. Of course many people will say that it was always thus but one can argue that in the past the aristocracy in the government had more dealings with ordinary people and stared at poverty in the face due to their duty to their estates and their dependents. I don’t see that today, in fact I seriously doubt if the likes of Johnson, Wancock or even Starmer know what its like to face redundancy or live in a bad neighbourhood. Or live with the consequences of their policies full stop.

133161 ▶▶ DickieA, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #128 of 1791 🔗

I was told by a retired solicitor that his son had recognised Hancock as a fellow performer from his time on the London standup scene around the turn of the century. It would explain a lot.

132314 Chris Hume, 44, #129 of 1791 🔗

Well done to Carl Heneghan. Caught them lying again. Lovely to see Krankie squirming. When will it dawn on people that their ‘unfortunate calculation methods’ always seem to overestimate, rather than underestimate Covid, whether it be deaths, hospitalisations or tests? How odd, always one way? Why is that I wonder? To be fair they don’t really report this stuff in the MSM, far too busy with hysteria to have any interest in facts and the veracity of data that Government agencies spew out. So most people don’t even know about it.

132320 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 27, #130 of 1791 🔗

Daily Covidgraph
“Fears for Europe’s hospitals as Madrid death toll grows. Hospitals in Europe’s Covid-19 hotpots are close to saturation point, with admissions to intensive care units increasing”

Sweden – only 4 reported Covid deaths yesterday
100% proof that lockdowns don’t work.

132536 ▶▶ Brian D, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #131 of 1791 🔗

I had a brief read of the article and it appears that 1 hospital is nearing max ICU capacity but it doesn’t seem to say that all those beds are being used by patients with covid… however that was a late night read though so I may need to read again to check I’m not spewing out nonsense.

The striking things is how they extrapolate to ‘Europe’s hospitals’ based on what is happening in one city.

(And no thought given to the potentially worse outcomes that many may receive over winter because of the mentally and physically damaging policies of the spring/summer!)

132321 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 18, #132 of 1791 🔗

‘ A matter of weeks’ We know handy cock is not very good with numbers, so pick a number, any number 10 weeks? 57 weeks? 172 weeks? 522 weeks?

Moonshot? I have a large rocket left over from last Guy Fawkes night, and I know where I would like to insert it before lighting the blue touch paper and retiring

132423 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Cecil B, 4, #133 of 1791 🔗

He is taking the Political International Standard System of measurement as a convenience

132429 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Strange Days, 4, #134 of 1791 🔗

are guy fawkes celebrations ‘allowed’? or bit close for comfort, for them

132435 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #135 of 1791 🔗

The difficulty will be in deciding who to burn on the bonfire, we are spoilt for choice this year

132615 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #136 of 1791 🔗

Two leading Lewes bonfire societies (Cliffe and Commercial Square) have said they will not be present on the 5th this year.

They’ve been druv.

132890 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to JohnB, #137 of 1791 🔗

What reason did they give for this decision?

133070 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kate, #138 of 1791 🔗

Safety, what else ? 🙂

132327 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 10, #139 of 1791 🔗

Slightly off topic but kind of related
I went to the hospital a few weeks ago, and they had developed a new bus lane, sign saying “not operational we have listened” I believe there was chaos a few days before. I think the council had some sort of a grant back in June/July The comment below from a local resident sums up how well thought through the scheme is. (I believe it has been put on hold) Will not be going that way till the end of the month so will see check.

Utter total stupidity.

Do decisions like this install confidence in our local government? If they can’t get basic things right like the roads right, just think about the more complicated services like health, education and welfare!
These new bus lanes have been installed on roads that are already at maximum capacity during morning and evening rush hours!!
The tailbacks are already horrendous on these stretches.
All they have done is narrowed capacity so that every 5 mins a single Stagecoach bus gets a free lane for 1/2 mile is tantamount to reckless endangerment.
The council must think people are idiots when they throw in the cyclist line.
Call it a “green new deal” to shut up the naysayer ie anyone with common sense.
If it were really about the cyclists the lanes would run directly to the city centre where there would be a safe, secure purpose-built bike park (ie like any Dutch or Japanese city).
Instead these lanes run for a few inconvenient blocks and then end, so what’s going to happen then?
When it ends, what does the council hope to happen, a great peloton of cyclists is just supposed to suddenly go back to “mixing it up” with normal traffic conditions.
And to cap it all off, these bus and cycle lanes are going to stay bus and cycle lanes 24/7.
You can’t make this stuff up!
Businesses in Chester city centre are dying from lack of footfall because there is no cheap parking, aggressive traffic wardens, few parking spaces and easy access (the current road layout is a joke).
So what do they do, well it’s like adding blockages to arteries around a diseased heart, add bus lanes and make the transport system even more slower.
Sure someone in Cheshire West & Highways hasn’t got shares in Cheshire Oaks? 😉

Cannot see a Peloton of cyclists (staff/visitors) heading for the Countess of Chester hospital.

132347 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Steeve, 32, #140 of 1791 🔗

Part of the plan bro. Everything they are doing is making it impossible to live. It don’t matter what it is but they are a slime oozing into every aspect of your life with the mantra of “the environment” and “safety”. Some of us know they are evil and it’s all being done to destroy everything we’ve built over the centuries others ignore that and attack folk like me for pointing it out. It’s not getting any better anytime soon. Within ten years if these lunatics are stopped dead you’ll be applying on line to use your car, giving details of the the roads you’ll use and why you need to go there. 20 years time no one will have a car. You won’t need one anyway because most of us will be dead from a combination of the Chinese made lab flu and the Chinese made Vaccine. It’s not a new political party that’s need it’s the army that needs to step in and get rid of all these traitors in Government.

132543 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Biker, 1, #141 of 1791 🔗

Thanks Bro! Enjoy the open road while you can!

132359 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steeve, 12, #142 of 1791 🔗

It is related because they sneaked in these long laid plans, all over the country, under the cover of fighting the Covid, out of sight and out of mind because done under cover of strict early lockdown.
Meanwhile all the normal roadworks that had been abandoned March 23 remained mothballed

132418 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Steeve, 7, #143 of 1791 🔗

It’s largely because of the growth of parasitic administration. Every large organisation gets it, universities in particular. The admin department grows until it takes up more room and demands more resources than even the main activity that the organisation exists to do.

The Covid idiocy gave meaning to useless jobs. When in fact all of these people should have been furloughed on minimal pay. It doesn’t help that the government is doing it too.

132436 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to mhcp, 2, #144 of 1791 🔗

As has happened to the NHS.

132551 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Steeve, 6, #145 of 1791 🔗

Part of agenda 21/30.Despite London being deserted they still have manufactured traffic jams with mass installation of cycle lanes and closure of roads.Covid gave them the excuse to intensify a process that has been going on since TFL was instituted,although it picked up steam when Johnson was mayor.

132328 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #146 of 1791 🔗

Do the stress tests applied to the British Banks since 2008 factor in an economic shock of the scale that they are are likely to face between October and March?

Is the dictatorship in a financial position to bail out the banks even if it wanted to?

132538 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cecil B, 1, #147 of 1791 🔗

The Bank of England can always support them like they did the Government.

132895 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Cecil B, 2, #148 of 1791 🔗

Banks went bust last september


Just like 2008 but bigger. Hence coronavirus and the police state.

132329 Emily Tock, replying to Emily Tock, 10, #149 of 1791 🔗

No doubt after some legal advice, NUI Galway has backed off on requiring a pledge from students and staff: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/nui-galway-drops-behave-responsibly-pledge-requirement-1.4353962

132385 ▶▶ annie, replying to Emily Tock, 6, #150 of 1791 🔗

GREAT NEWS. That demand was appalling. They wanted your body, mind and soul.

132904 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to annie, 2, #151 of 1791 🔗

Under the guise of “kindness” they will gag and bind you.

132896 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Emily Tock, 2, #152 of 1791 🔗

Brilliant. The lad who took this up with them will be a future leader for sure.


133029 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Emily Tock, 2, #153 of 1791 🔗

Hopefully university students in other countries will follow his lead. I’ve read reports of very bad situations for students at American universities.

132332 Csaba, replying to Csaba, 4, #154 of 1791 🔗

I cannot stop thinking that the government just uses its newly got greater power and control on much more money to extend this period and trying to get even more power and control over more money. They simply use bbc and all the resources they have. It must be difficult for them to realise that the period is over when they got this extraordinary power. I hope they don’t use this power to push back their political opponents.

132344 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Csaba, 2, #155 of 1791 🔗

They already have.

132364 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Csaba, 8, #156 of 1791 🔗

The original lockdown only worked because of overwhelming public support and goodwill. They must surely know this no longer applies.
They no longer have the power we lent them on March 23rd.

133032 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to karenovirus, 2, #157 of 1791 🔗

Two key mistakes:
1) Cummings “field trips”
2) The Rule of 6

Goodwill leaking away from even more of the public after the latest nonsense.

132366 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Csaba, 8, #158 of 1791 🔗

They don’t have any political opponents.

132371 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to JohnB, 5, #159 of 1791 🔗

No, the existing parties are as one. Nevertheless, there still won’t be elections in May. I suspect the reason is that the parties have seen how little support they are getting in response to their rounds of begging letters and emails to their own mail lists. Predicted results of a 2021 election round: Tories crash and the rest go backwards, huge number of spoilt ballots. As we found in 2019, large numbers of spoilt ballots have an impact, they delegitimise the system, and our rulers will want to avoid that.

Paradoxically, I think the only chance of getting elections is if a credible LS party is formed which can press for them. It becomes much harder to cancel elections if the consensus in favour of doing so is punctured.

133202 ▶▶▶▶ DickieA, replying to Ovis, 2, #160 of 1791 🔗

I would agree with your view that we need a credible opposition to the current political parties (and Lockdown). There was talk on here about using an existing party structure (such as the Libertarian party). A good choice could be The Monster Raving Loony Party. Firstly, it is widely known. Secondly, it would be relatively easy to take over. Thirdly, the publicity that might arise by changing tact and advocating sensible policies against the lunacy in the other parties would be priceless; and finally, voting for them would appeal to people who liked the new policies and also to the large swathe of disaffected voters who are not too interested in political parties but want to stick two fingers up to the existing politicians.

132336 Jason, replying to Jason, 16, #161 of 1791 🔗

My thoughts on “Government Responds to Vaccine Petition”
People are right to be suspicious. This is like telling a prison inmate that their stay is voluntary, as long as they don’t try to leave.
The message is pretty clear. “Volunteer to be vaccinated, or we will force you to be.”

132389 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jason, 4, #162 of 1791 🔗

I want 67 million volunteers, you, you, you….

132339 Biker, replying to Biker, 13, #163 of 1791 🔗

Virus was made in a Chinese Lab and released on us as an act of war


Johnstone and the rest of the westminster people have shown us that they are part of the conspiracy. We have no rights, free speech and are at the mercy of lunatics who want to control the world. They know what they are doing and its you and your families death they want. And no one gives a fuck. Still think i’ll go out for a ride on my bike and wait for the stormtroopers to come round my house and forcibly inject me with the vaccination ( for my own safety you understand). I wonder what will it take for people to fight for their lives or have we all become spineless wankers. I know the answer to that question already, unfortunately. Off course one of the big brains will pop up like he shill he is and say they’re incompetent and don’t worry it’s no ones fault. They’re part of the deception too.

132358 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Biker, 10, #164 of 1791 🔗

I bet the Chinese can’t even believe how well this has spun out

132957 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #165 of 1791 🔗

I imagine that whenever the CCP higher-ups discuss the West, they spend the first five minutes in uncontrollable laughter.

132959 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to R G, 5, #166 of 1791 🔗

Yes, like the Smash aliens!

132363 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 5, #167 of 1791 🔗

Chinese vaccine ready by November as announced yesterday.

132494 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Biker, 1, #168 of 1791 🔗

Seems to fail pretty hard when it comes up against Hanlon’s Razor. Also seems to me to presuppose levels of governmental competence not really in evidence.

Also seems likely we are going to be subjected to plenty of propaganda pushing us towards confrontation with China, as it takes top dog position from the US, without any need for this level of blood libel. I don’t think you need to worry about there not being a Cold War with China in our future, if that’s what you want. That’s pretty much baked in. What imo should concern us more is the possibility of it turning hot. Because if that happens, we’ll likely look back fondly on the damage done by the coronapanic, as “the good old days”.

132919 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Mark, 5, #169 of 1791 🔗

It is not the Chinese ffs – The Wuhan lab was funded jointly by the US and CCP.
Fauci gave the Wuhan lab 4.7 million dollars the year before the virus “escaped”

It is difficult for normal people to understand just what the recent advances in technology have allowed the powerful to do. Nanotechnology bio-engineering and new materials technology have introduced a new future the technocrats are forcing on us. Thinking in the old norms is no longer be relevant but most people cannot catch up.

132340 Cecil B, 8, #170 of 1791 🔗

More Moonshit than Moonshot

132342 TJN, 28, #171 of 1791 🔗

Article by Philip Johnston in the Telegraph this morning saying MPs need to hold the government to account over what is going on. Pretty obvious stuff.

He states the oft-quoted principle: ‘the basis of English liberty is the rule of law, under which everything is allowed unless specifically prohibited’.

To my mind it would be more accurate to say ‘the basis of English liberty is the predilection of its people to disobey senseless laws foisted on them by an overreaching and arrogant executive’.

132346 epythymy, replying to epythymy, 3, #172 of 1791 🔗

I am wondering if anyone can give me a city:city comparison of Covid deaths. Whenever I try to argue with anyone, using Sweden as an example, they always bring out that “Sweden is less densely populated so of course that is why”. However, if you look at the concentration of the population of Sweden, many of them live in the south in a few cities. The population of Stockholm is around a million – the same as perhaps Birmingham, give or take. So how do cities compare? I’m struggling to find data these days with everything I have to read and the way governments are making it difficult…

132352 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to epythymy, 1, #173 of 1791 🔗

Greenland is a huge ice-sheet surrounded by a few towns dotted along the coast. I don’t think raw population density is a particularly useful measure for Greenland or Sweden. Urbaanisation is a better metric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_by_country

132362 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to epythymy, 4, #174 of 1791 🔗

Does population density have anything at all to do with COVID-19?

Surely if it did then we would see masses of death around these areas in the UK of working age people. Virtually all deaths come from the elderly and those with serious illness that were in hospital, in it moved into care, in hospices, or confined to there homes and seeing out their final days at home.

132373 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to JohnB, 12, #175 of 1791 🔗

Correct. Population density of very ill, elderly people is the key metric here. Nursing homes and hospitals are very dense in those people. Wherever you are in the world. Sweden’s deaths like ours and France and the US etc occurred overwhelmingly in those settings, and overwhelmingly to people who caught it in those settings. Community cases leading to death are very rare. Which is why lockdown, masks, Social Distancing, ban on mass gatherings, ‘the rule of six’ and all the other stuff is ALL absolute bullshit and totally pointless.

132461 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to epythymy, 1, #176 of 1791 🔗

Sweden has a higher urban population percentage than the UK (88%) compared to the UK (83.9%).

These may help:


Population of the cities are only similar if you look at the Metropolitan area of Stockholm (2.4m)

132600 ▶▶ Mark, replying to epythymy, 1, #177 of 1791 🔗

Inproportion2 produced a good article on this way back at the beginning of July, and some of the stuff is still useful:

A ‘Nordic’ comparison: Sweden has lower overall mortality than Finland – and Scotland!

132912 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mark, 1, #178 of 1791 🔗

Denmark is a huge outlier there. Population density was not a factor there at all.

It’s all to do with age and underlying conditions

132348 Sprinter, replying to Sprinter, 8, #179 of 1791 🔗

It would seems that Matt Hancock knows all about false positives (from Hansard ( https://bit.ly/2E3LuVZ ):

Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
To what extent is there a possibility that it is the exponential increase in testing itself, in identifying genuine new cases, and the very significant possibility of false positives, that is giving a distorted impression of the trajectory of the disease?

Matt Hancock
I like my right hon. Friend very much and wish that that were true. The reason why the Office for National Statistics does the surveillance testing is to ensure that we are constantly looking, on a national representative sample, at what the case rate is, as well as, of course, using the tests, and as we increase the testing numbers, we will inevitably find more of the cases that are there. The ONS survey published on Friday shows a rise in the numbers commensurate with the rise in the numbers of tests that have come back positive, and that does take into account the point about false positives, which is an important one .

132532 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Sprinter, 2, #180 of 1791 🔗

Did Matt Hancock actually say anything?

133103 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Silke David, 1, #181 of 1791 🔗

I wish he didn’t say anything.

132349 TJN, replying to TJN, 16, #182 of 1791 🔗

Whoever it was who got that reply from Gary Streeter: over the coming months and years as the appalling consequences of the government’s response come home to roost, you can email him repeatedly holding him responsible. Let him and his ilk be accountable for what they have supported.

Then again, I suppose Streeter is one better than his neighbour Johnny ‘Johnny’ Mercer MP who, in his own tweeted words, thinks that people who questioned the wisdom of the police down here in Devon to set up roadblocks during the lockdown are ‘kn*bs’,and people who don’t wear muzzles are ‘c*nts’.

My MP, Geoffrey Cox, meanwhile keeps his head well down on all this – wiser than Streeter and Mercer, but hardly more credible.

I seriously wonder whether Parliament can survive this. And I’ve no idea what the alternative might be.

132376 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 11, #183 of 1791 🔗

We have a dead Parliament unfortunately. More and more are exposing themselves for what they really are – how they hate the ordinary Joe and are in it not to serve the public but to feather their own nests and to gratify their egos.

What I don’t think they know is that the feeling is mutual and when the day of reckoning arrives they will get their comeuppance – either in the ballot box or something else.

They can’t escape Karma.

132525 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #184 of 1791 🔗

My worry is that it will be something else.

For all Parliament’s faults – or rather the type of person we elect there – I can’t see any way we can rebuild our society on a sure footing without one.

Maybe in the same way as there was an Interregnum of the Monarch in the 1650s, there will be an Interregnum now. Johnson and co. have form on wanting to shut Parliament.

132528 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TJN, 4, #185 of 1791 🔗

If they shut it,at least people could see that they are living in a dictatorship

132534 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #186 of 1791 🔗

Yes, I sometimes think that we will have to go right to the very bottom, with all the suffering that entails, until people wake up and we can begin the climb back out.

132666 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TJN, 3, #187 of 1791 🔗

Looking at the wasteland that is central London we shouldn’t have to wait too long

132607 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 6, #188 of 1791 🔗

And if they don’t want the something else then they need to roll back this insanity instead of doubling further the mistakes they’ve made.

Its not long to go now before any rioting or civil unrest unfolds.

132639 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #189 of 1791 🔗

Maybe they do want the something else?

As Lord Sumtpion said a couple of days ago, the Johnson administration is power mad.

133028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 3, #190 of 1791 🔗

Then they have a death wish.

Any rioting and civil unrest could turn violent. Look at the Revolution of 1830 and 1848 where angry crowds did turn on ministers and civil servants.

133083 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #191 of 1791 🔗

Yes, history shows that no matter what happens now it’s very ugly times ahead, and I don’t mean just economically.

132458 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to TJN, 5, #192 of 1791 🔗

My MP, also a Devon one, is, I think, probably dead. We haven’t heard a peep from Kevin Foster since this all hit the fan. Perhaps the Covids carried him off?

132530 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #193 of 1791 🔗

More likely covid has carried off his brain.

But like Geoffrey Cox, he may be possible to work on. On the comments for 8 September I posted a (long) email I sent to Mr Cox saying that he had to come off the fence, one way or another, and couldn’t just sit there and say nothing. No rise from him yet.

132547 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Miss Owl, 3, #194 of 1791 🔗

Same with our MP. A few photo ops, stood next to the hideous plasticky spacing dots and a few words in the local paper about the government giving money to businesses to employ youngsters.

132609 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #195 of 1791 🔗

Our MP has been MIA. Wrote him an email back in April and nowt a peep.

132619 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #196 of 1791 🔗

My last e-mail to mine told her I would never vote Conservative again. She probably read it and thought “like I care, I’m sat on a >20k majority.

132624 ▶▶▶▶▶ Allan Gay, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #197 of 1791 🔗

I have received no acknowledgement of my brief, courteous snailmail letter to my MP.

After a few days, I used the WriteToThem website to email the same text to him, receiving an automated acknowledgement of receipt.

Nothing else.

132645 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Allan Gay, 6, #198 of 1791 🔗

AG and KH,

The government response to covid is the most important matter to affect our lives since the Second World War. MPs have no legitimate right merely to sit back in silence. They have a duty to make their stance clear, whatever that stance may be.

132655 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, 3, #199 of 1791 🔗

Trouble is TJN, whenever I attempt to write correspondence, it comes out as an emotional rant. I have great respect for the calm considered letters posted here. But I take your point. Day off tomorrow so might have another go …

132684 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 1, #200 of 1791 🔗

Well you write just fine on here. And an emotional rant is maybe better than the semi piss-taking passive-aggressive stuff that I write.

133101 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to TJN, 1, #201 of 1791 🔗

Mine would end up like that. A case of reading between sarcasm.

133023 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Allan Gay, 4, #202 of 1791 🔗

HI Alan and kh1485,

Unfortunately this has led me to the conclusion that there are too many MPs and given that many companies are having to restructure in order to survive then maybe they should as well.

133258 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Allan Gay, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #203 of 1791 🔗

In my darker musings, Bart, I think the Parliament buildings should be razed to the ground and all their denizens sent to the Brussels they love.

I agree that there are too many MPs.

Although it’s important to have a revising chamber, I also think there are far too many people in the House of Lords.

133090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Allan Gay, 2, #204 of 1791 🔗

My MP had at last replied (today) to my July email about masks in shops. I’ll presumably have another long wait for a reply to my email of 9 September opposing the renewal of the Coronavirus Act. The replies I get are usually quite long but simply state the standard government line with little evidence of independent thought.

132709 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 2, #205 of 1791 🔗

Not a peep for 6 months from my usually media friendly Socialist mp.

132350 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 6, #206 of 1791 🔗

covid killed 51,818 so far this year (ONS – covid mentioned on death certificate)
other respiratory diseases killed 46,929 (ONS stats)

‘other’ will overtake covid in a month as covid has all but disappeared.

covid is overestimated as ‘mentioned on death certificate’ whereas ‘other respiratory deaths’ is ‘underlying cause’. I think if covid deaths were measured as ‘underlying cause’ you’d be down to a few thousand. It was a complicating factor in deaths of old age

132355 ▶▶ Biker, replying to steve_w, 2, #207 of 1791 🔗

i thought it was 41000 dead of the chinese man made lab flu not 51000.

132356 Cecil B, 2, #208 of 1791 🔗

Basil Fawlty goes in search of Handy Cock


132357 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #209 of 1791 🔗

Hi there

I’m trying to explain to a friend who’s is totally wedded to the MSM narrative that we need to look wider. She takes this as me suggesting we ditch science. That science and the official line is in MSM… why would govt and media mislead, she says. Sh

She’s sent me an FT article about Sweden and how Tednell was arrogant and killed lots in care homes and has worse death rate of Nordic neighbours. And that’s the only reason he is stubbornly pursuing this line is because all power is given to medics in Sweden so so one else has got a look in. It looks to me like FT is “projecting” as psychologists say….

I’m looking for help with some stats

Any thing we can dig up here that shows why Sweden’s model has worked well…

Also any snippets from how Swedish people think about the strategy …

Many thanks

132367 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #210 of 1791 🔗

Drop her as a friend, You will quickly realise that you haven’t lost a friend, but that she wasn’t a friend in the first place

132403 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Cecil B, 5, #211 of 1791 🔗

It’s so divisive this situation we find ourselves in. Worse than Brexit.

133438 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cecil B, 1, #212 of 1791 🔗

I’ve dropped a couple of people after a few back and forth email exchanges. The gulf is simply too wide. I don’t see how we can single-handedly bring people back from psychosis, especially just relying on words and explanations.

You’re either on the bus or you’re not on the bus, as some hippies used to say (Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters reference for those old enough to remember).

Or even Firesign Theater, “We’re all bozos on this bus.”

132388 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #213 of 1791 🔗

Here are some recent articles:


At this point in time there is no knockout argument or data. The Swedes have always said that we won’t know the real outcome until at least a year has passed. Their strategy is for the long game.

I suspect you’ll have a hard time persuading someone wedded to the MSM, but good luck.

132400 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Sally, #214 of 1791 🔗

Thank you 😊

132411 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #215 of 1791 🔗

Sweden records deaths with covid differently to it’s Nordic neighbours. Having had covid in the previous 28 days registers as a covid death in Sweden whereas, in other Nordic countries (and Germany), you have to physically test positive at death. Finland may have lower deaths with covid but has a proportionally higher excess death rate than Sweden, Denmark’s excess deaths are roughly the same. Sweden also had a much milder flu season last winter than Finland and Denmark which meant there was more low hanging fruit for the virus to take.

132447 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sally, 2, #216 of 1791 🔗

Here are some more: https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1305809376062697474 (mental health in Sweden after the CV19 peak)
The above guy’s Twitter feed is worth reading; some is in Swedish but most is in English..

According to yesterday’s hospital stats here in Sweden, there are now 5 (out of 21) regions here with zero Covid 19 hospital cases and a further 6 regions with only one or two. So half of Sweden’s regions have between zero and 2 people in hospital.

There are 3 regions where the numbers are still in double figures, but all others have between 3 and 9 people in hospital with the virus and most are at the lower end of that range.

132437 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #217 of 1791 🔗

Your friend needs to watch that Ivor Cummins video as regards the difference between Sweden and its neighbours, who had harder flu seasons last year, leaving them with fewer elderly vulnerable than in Sweden…A virus will always ‘get’ the most vulnerable first.

70% of the people who have died in Sweden were either in care homes or having care in their own homes via the local council – ie these were not healthy people.In the stats from a couple of weeks ago it was stated that of Sweden’s deaths, only 872 were of people *without* co-morbidities.

Sweden has announced that they are opening up care homes for visits from 1st October, although from photos I’ve seen from friends, some homes have been allowing outside visits during the summer, with a perspex screen on a table between visitor and resident. Here’s an article about the opening up https://www.thelocal.se/20200915/sweden-to-lift-ban-on-visits-to-elderly-care-homes , and note this bit:
concerns have also been raised that the ban is at this point causing more health problems than it resolves. Swedish health authorities are worried that it is leading to increased isolation and loneliness among people, many of whom are very old and vulnerable, who have not been able to receive visits from friends and family as normal.
The government based its decision on advice from Sweden’s National Board of Health and Welfare and the Public Health Agency. They said that the rate of infection had decreased, and that care homes were now better equipped to handle testing and hygiene procedures than they were during the peak of the coronavirus outbreak.
Out of 5,731 deaths where Covid-19 was the main cause of death, a total of 2,669 people lived in care homes for the elderly, according to the National Board of Health and Welfare’s data for the period up until September 7th*.
During the peak of the outbreak in spring, several hundreds of deaths were registered in care homes every week. Since the end of May, the number has been below 100 a week and in recent weeks no more than a handful of people have died in care homes (very low numbers are confidential in the statistics , for privacy reasons).’

132445 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #218 of 1791 🔗

Sweden’s model didn’t work well: there was a catastrophic failure to keep Covid out of care homes and lots of people died.

What Sweden’s model tells us is that once Covid has gone through the general population it dies away naturally much quicker than people thought. Given that lockdown is not effective and the side effects are catastrophic the most reasonable approach is to isolate the vulnerable and let Covid pass around younger people like we let colds pass around.

132464 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Recusant, 4, #219 of 1791 🔗

It needs to be remembered that the average person in a care home lives for only 20 months before dying anyway – there is a reason they are there. They are frail and have co-morbidities, otherwise they would still be living independently. Swedes value their independence very highly!

Have you seen Ivor Cumins’ latest video? Sweden had a very mild winter last year (we had almost no snow where I live, which is unusual, and it was warmer too), and this meant that there were a lot of elderly alive who may otherwise have died of other viruses or old age earlier in the winter.
When I looked at the stats around the peak, a quarter of Sweden’s deaths had been of people over the age of *90*… ie well above average life expectancy. In any other circumstances these deaths would not have been considered unusual…

132470 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Recusant, 3, #220 of 1791 🔗

Many other countries, that had lockdowns of varying degrees of strictness, had their own issues with care homes. UK, New York to name but two.

“Lots of people died”. It depends how you define “lots”. Compared to many other countries, that employed many different approaches, Sweden’s death rate is nothing exceptional, and should be considered along with their mild flu season the year before.

Tegnell has admitted they did badly with care homes, but that wasn’t part of the “model” but an issue with execution. Other than that, given the generally much milder impact on the economy, liberty and public health generally, and their very low “case” rate now, it looks like it has worked much better than most countries. Whether you call that “well” or not depends on whether you are aiming for perfection, but I would take what they have over the UK in an instant. They are returning to normality, our government is lurching from one insanity to the next, and lying through its teeth to us in the process.

132477 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Recusant, 7, #221 of 1791 🔗

Sweden’s model didn’t work well”

That’s a rather obtuse way of looking at it. In fact, “Sweden’s model” was everyone’s model before most panicked and abandoned it in March, and it worked so well that it’s becoming generally recognised that they did it right and everyone else got it wrong. As recently noted:

Today, all countries in Europe more or less follow the Swedish model – but no one would admit it. That is not politically correct.” Antoine Flahault, professor of epidemiology at the University of Geneva and head of the Institute of Global Health .”

What you refer to is the particular mistake in handling care homes, which Sweden was not alone in making, but seems to have been very unusual in owning up to and apologising for.

132604 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mark, 5, #222 of 1791 🔗

If, after 4160 weeks of life, an elderly person with age related illnesses passes away with covid19 help, or if they pass away on their 4170th week of living without covid19 then they have simply died of old age.

If we remove these good people from the equation then the number of people dying from covid19 is approximately… erm… bugger all – in the scheme of things.

Sweden did great because they did not screw up their country or their people by interfering in an ignorant and destructive way

132480 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #223 of 1791 🔗

What’s the level of deaths and cases in Sweden now? And how does that compare to a country where the Skinner’s Superstitious pigeons have all decided to wear masks?

There is no deflection in any curve to support mask wearing and the effectiveness of lockdown overall (all it has done is delayed things). Sweden has embedded a culture everybody happily supports because it is not too extreme, whereas here we have unnecessary invasions of personal space to pander to people who have become hysterical (and perhaps understandably if they have lost loved ones to this).

132502 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #224 of 1791 🔗

Very low as regards both. And watch the video in Toby’s list of links to see what it is like shopping here at the moment!

133394 ▶▶ Newmill Mark, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #225 of 1791 🔗

If you want an MSM link here’s one from the Guardian, one of about 2 in 6 months. If anyone, even non sceptic, can read that and not start to think hang on, maybe their approach has merit, is lost to rational thought. Link below my facebook rant, which I include because I like it!

How much more evidence do we need that Sweden chose the correct path, and ours was and remains emphatically the wrong one? Our government could have chosen to really follow the science, rather than perverting it; could have provided advice and guidance, not placed its citizens under house arrest; could have taken calm and sensible measures, not retreated into magical thinking and damaging, repressive knee jerk actions.

It is no coincidence that the one European country that has entrusted its pandemic response solely to its health authorities, with no political interference, is the one that has plotted the wisest course. The way out of this mess starts when we begin to realise this, and properly question our inept government’s increasingly nonsensical and deliberately divisive restrictions.

133685 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #226 of 1791 🔗

I’m going through the same with my (science teacher) ex-husband. (We share young children, in case you’re wondering why I would bother). It’s a misery.

Unfortunately, people don’t join our path with quick stats, facts, figures, etc., because it requires time-consuming and painful digging to finally “get it.” I have been directing people to sources about how deeply corrupt science has become.

There’s a book called Not Even Trying that you can read for free here: http://corruption-of-science.blogspot.com/
I have reservations about Ben Goldacre, but his book Bad Science is also a good start.

I send people the PDF of Agenda 21.

And I also send them these three youtube videos from 12 years ago of  Rosa Koire giving a presentation to the New Hampshire Legislature about Agenda 21 as a layman’s version, saying they can verify all of it in the publication:


133801 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Country Mumkin, #227 of 1791 🔗

Lots of useful graphs on Hector Drummond’s site: https://hectordrummond.com/

Also Ivor Cummins from Sept 8 is a very clear expose of the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac&t=5s

132360 CGL, replying to CGL, 18, #228 of 1791 🔗

Peston in the Spectator saying that a lockdown might be only 2 weeks away.
I really can’t do this much more. Why do people still believe a word of what they are saying?

132424 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to CGL, 9, #229 of 1791 🔗

Wasn’t it Peston who got the ‘scoop’ on the rule of 6? Worrying if so… especially if I’m remembering correctly that James Delingpole had heard months ago of a planned new lockdown in October, which is now 2 weeks away..

132465 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Carrie, 3, #230 of 1791 🔗

Another bloody (uk) holiday down the tubes for half term then. I will make them pay for this stolen year.

133698 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to CGL, 1, #231 of 1791 🔗

2020 will someday be remembered as the good times when they were still maintaining illusions.

133449 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Carrie, 2, #232 of 1791 🔗

I’ve seen October mentioned in many different publications. It’s gone viral, so to speak (sorry!)

132507 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to CGL, 8, #233 of 1791 🔗

I’m hearing rumours of that happening.If it does it will be to forestall any civil unrest.The economic chickens are coming home to roost

132513 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 9, #234 of 1791 🔗

It won’t forestall it – it will make it happen – I’m done with this now.

132675 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to CGL, 8, #235 of 1791 🔗

I’m with you.My livelihood is almost gone.Bankruptcy to follow.Nothing to lose

133517 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #236 of 1791 🔗

“Whatever you do, never take away too much from a person, otherwise you will leave them with nothing to lose” – Solzhenitsyn.

132612 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CGL, 8, #237 of 1791 🔗

If that’s true then instead of trying to stop any rioting or civil unrest, it could trigger it.

They should be careful what they wish for. With jobs and businesses already on the line, no sane person will accept this and this could wake up the sheep as well.

132940 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #238 of 1791 🔗

furlough is ending too isn’t it?

132720 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to CGL, 1, #239 of 1791 🔗

I read that, he said all the medics he knows call the former Health Secretary by cockney rhyming slang.

132361 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 3, #240 of 1791 🔗


This investigation (from 2010) into the 2009 swine flu hysteria has so many parallels with the current situation it is unsettling. Can it be a coincidence that there is almost exactly a decade between the two hysterias?

132387 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Gillian, 6, #241 of 1791 🔗

There is also a channel 4 programme on the pharmaceutical scam of swine flu from 2010. I mentioned it the other day, if it is still on YouTube

132440 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nsklent, 3, #242 of 1791 🔗

I watched it, then did a bit of digging. Who do you think this relates to?:
‘In 2006, in his mid-40s, he joined GSK as head of drug discovery. Four years later he became head of medicines discovery and development and in 2012 he was appointed head of research and development at GSK’

None other than Sir Patrick Vallance!

132368 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 6, #243 of 1791 🔗

GMB is in panic mode this morning about the “Second Wave”. Apparently hospitals in Bolton are in crisis and overflowing with middle aged and elderly men with Covid illness. No mention of this on the BBC (who surely can be relied upon to report this). What’s going on at Bolton hospitals? Can anyone there shed any light?

132431 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Gillian, 1, #244 of 1791 🔗

BBC have now sent someone to Bolton … she is standing in front of huge testing centre so it seems to be all about the problems of getting tested . apparently it is not testing capacity.. it is getting the lab analysis.
But nothing about hospitals

132457 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to mjr, 2, #245 of 1791 🔗

Apparently it is all the fault of those ‘PhD students who used to do the tests going back to university’. What??? People working in PhD theses don’t keep university terms, they just work on their research.
According to the same BBC interviewer outside the (empty) Bolton test centre, yesterday they were swamped by queues of parents with children who’d been told they couldn’t go back to school until they had had a negative test. What??? Why don’t they just keep their child at home for a week until their cold has got better? Why would they force their child to suffer all day at school, feeling rotten, with a nasty cold, giving it to every other child and teacher? Presumably because both parents are working and don’t want to take a week off, so want to send child out to school a

133068 ▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Bruno, 1, #246 of 1791 🔗

It’s the school who says they must have a test before returning; it’s not necessarily the parents choice. (Apparently, according to many comments.)

133598 ▶▶▶▶▶ Catherine, replying to Arkansas, 1, #247 of 1791 🔗

Yes, I was told we had to isolate and get a test before any of us could do anything. My boys are at the same school so my eldest has missed another 3 days of school. The tea was negative and a total waste of resources as we all have a cold!!

132370 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 22, #248 of 1791 🔗

Hunt just said on R4 Today 08.16 Weds

“The virus is doubling every day (week ?) there is a crisis in public confidence and winter is coming on…mass panic to get a test….if we are very lucky we might be able to have the Chistmas we all look forward to” in a debate with Nick Robinson about the phoney Test ‘shortage’.

Alarmist shite.

132379 ▶▶ TJN, replying to karenovirus, 8, #249 of 1791 🔗

Yes, I heard that too.

Listening to Radio 4 Today is a worse risk to my health than covid.

132725 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, 1, #250 of 1791 🔗

I suffer for your sanity,
Don Mclain, Vincent.

132404 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to karenovirus, 3, #251 of 1791 🔗

Do you mean a phoney test shortage or a shortage of the phoney test?

132575 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to hotrod, 2, #252 of 1791 🔗

A phoney phoney test shortage

132372 mjr, replying to mjr, 2, #253 of 1791 🔗

Yougov poll..
This is mentioned in the daily summary. I have doubts about how accurate this is. Yougov do a daily poll on line where you can vote as often as you want
Also to put it into context .. They also show a poll from yesterday asking the question Do you think life exists on other planets within our solar system? 46% think it does. 29% dont know

132393 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, 2, #254 of 1791 🔗

Yougov is a government mouth piece, created by Blairites.

Life more than likely does exist on other planets within our solar system, so from current thinking that poll is pretty spot on.

132398 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, #255 of 1791 🔗
132421 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, #256 of 1791 🔗

The moons of Jupiter and Saturn are the places that are believed to be the most likely spots where life will exist, specifically Europa and Enceladus under their icy seas.

132473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 1, #257 of 1791 🔗

“All these worlds are yours, except Europa; attempt no landings there.”

132537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Sam Vimes, #258 of 1791 🔗

That was supposed to happen ten years ago. Scary thought.

132627 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Andrew Fish, #259 of 1791 🔗

Well, powerful ‘beings’ are certainly supervising the creation of primitive life, in a strange new world!

132577 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, #260 of 1791 🔗

yes – i know about that theory . some single cell methane loving life (as per undersea black smokers with methane digesting bacteria). Possible but highly unlikely. And i dont think that is what the 46% were thinking of.

132636 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #261 of 1791 🔗

And Mars. The most recent findings suggest life there.

Sorry, didn’t keep link, maybe spaceweather.com ?

132420 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #262 of 1791 🔗

And probably the votes are from the 77th brigade..

132428 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 1, #263 of 1791 🔗

Nadim Zahawi the Tory MP was one of the co-founders along with Stephan Shakespeare. It’s got establishment written all over it!

132395 ▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, #264 of 1791 🔗

Is the moon made of green cheese?…
Is the earth flat?…

132381 mjr, replying to mjr, 9, #265 of 1791 🔗

Re the Gary Lineker piece above. Not only does he get overpaid by BBC for doing the Saturday Match of the Day (note he does NOT do Sunday MoD2) and maybe the odd international, he also works for BT and does their Champions League programmes. God knows what he gets paid for that, Of course BT can pay him what they want.. they are a limited company .
Note also the other MoD presenters also get loads of money. Alan Shearer is on over £400,000 and he isnt even on every week!

132386 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, 3, #266 of 1791 🔗

You’ve forgotten Walker Crisps too, he’ll get a load of money for all those Ads.

132394 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, #267 of 1791 🔗

not forgotten ,. cannot forget such works of art.. But ignored as the point is about him making huge amounts of money from BBC for football when he isnt doing it exclusively for them

132402 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, 3, #268 of 1791 🔗

I don’t get how £1.7m is justified to host a highlights show that lasts around 1 hour, and shitty FA Cup matches where teams put out their reserves in a competition that has been much devalued since around 2000.

132408 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, 1, #269 of 1791 🔗

Totally agree… And with the Walkers money it does show that his reduction in salary is a pretty meaningless gesture.

132391 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to mjr, 2, #270 of 1791 🔗

They will pump out any propaganda the dictatorship sends them

Not just these two, to a person the BBC are screwing the public

132452 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Cecil B, 2, #271 of 1791 🔗

Watching the Tour de France on ITV4. I don’t know what Gary Imlach is paid, but he is about a 100 times better frontman than Lineker. Why isn’t the beeb hiring these genuinely talented people.

132482 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mjr, #272 of 1791 🔗

He is a ‘protected species’, not sure why?

132681 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to mjr, 1, #273 of 1791 🔗

Loved Lineker as a boy but what a virtue signalling prick he has become

133003 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #274 of 1791 🔗

He says he’s always been a virtue signalling prick.

132382 Nsklent, replying to Nsklent, 5, #275 of 1791 🔗

From Breitbart this morning, an article by Farage.

The home secretary had even suggested when speaking to BBC Radio 4’sToday programme that “mingling” — two households of more than a combined six people stopping on the street to chat — was banned, even if they talked at a distance.

I guess such notions are just down to government incompetence.

132438 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nsklent, 3, #276 of 1791 🔗

Has Farage finally gone sceptic? Is he still involved in the Brexit Party?

132733 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nsklent, #277 of 1791 🔗

Wow, ‘distance mingling’ is now a crime.

132390 mjr, replying to mjr, 13, #278 of 1791 🔗

Re Noel Gallagher rant.
I note that the link in the article to the youtube no longer works. YouTube have censored (it might be for the swearing,,, but just as likely for the scepticism)
Anyway, someone did post an alternative link yesterday so i have copied that here

132432 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mjr, 4, #279 of 1791 🔗

As I said yesterday, he is a bright man – if only he didn’t swear so much as it tends to detract from what is often a very perceptive comment on life in general.

132449 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #280 of 1791 🔗

They’re happy to leave his swearing in every other interview he does.

132467 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, 2, #281 of 1791 🔗

Yes, which means it has been taken down because of his views on the virus/lockdown/masks. My point was only that many people dismiss him as an ‘oik’ because of the swearing, when he is anything but.

132697 ▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #282 of 1791 🔗

Even Stephen Fry likes a bit of sweariness.. apparently..

133100 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #283 of 1791 🔗

‘Many people’ self-limiting their learning, TT. They’ll get there in the end. 🙂

132476 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to mjr, 2, #284 of 1791 🔗

Thank you! I’ve never liked him, but this is superb. Love the interviewer’s pathetic attempts to explain the ‘science’ to him

132647 ▶▶ microdave, replying to mjr, 1, #285 of 1791 🔗

And for those of you (like me) who want to keep a local copy of controversial interviews, paste this into your browser:

https://cs6-5v4.vkuservideo.net//p13//80c8c02faf13.240.mp4 ?

Then right click on the small player window and select “Save Video As”

132397 Locked down and out, replying to Locked down and out, 8, #286 of 1791 🔗

Toby, your cartoon is not quite correct. Surely, there are three absolute certainties in life: death, taxes and student nurses.
By the way, here is a shout out for Tanzania – Africa’s no-lockdown success story and a country with which I do business every day. I also strongly recommend for a visit as many airlines are back flying to Dar, Kili and Zanzibar and there’s only a cursory temperature check at the airport and no restrictions once visitors are in country.
See this story:

132417 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Locked down and out, 6, #287 of 1791 🔗

Wssn’t it Tanzania where a goat, papaya and engine oil tested positive for the virus? Good on them for an outbreak of common sense!

132556 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 2, #288 of 1791 🔗

Didn’t know about the engine oil but that shows the stupidity of these tests.

And also banned face masks for health and safety reasons.

132409 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 13, #289 of 1791 🔗

If the SARS-CoV-2 virus is so dangerous why aren’t Paediatric Intensive Care Units (PICU) full of dying infants? After all their immune system is not very mature, for the first 6 months they’re dependent entirely on the antibodies from their mother pre birth, instead they are protected by parts of the immune system that we share with insects.

132446 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to p02099003, 8, #290 of 1791 🔗

Also, why isn’t there a huge spike in deaths of people HIV and AIDS? If this was happening then there would be a major outcry from the LGBT community about it.

There is also no huge spike in deaths of those immuno compromised either with other illnesses.

132410 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #291 of 1791 🔗

The Justice Secretary just told us (R4 Today) ” we got our Crown and Magistrates Courts back up and running before anywhere else…”
Really ? We have a Combined Courts Centre with no activity whatsoever.

132442 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, 5, #292 of 1791 🔗

Political speak. “up and running” may mean no more than the doors were unlocked and the lights were on.

132412 Ned of the Hills, 12, #293 of 1791 🔗

Here’s my morning’s ha’porth worth.

Whatever happened to the slogan: “Keep Calm and Carry On”?

Can mugs, tea towels, and tee shirts still be bought displaying the slogan?

An apter slogan today would be: “Stay At Home and Quake in your Boots”

132414 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 22, #294 of 1791 🔗


“The majority of local councils said they had no plans to enact a Covid marshal scheme and would not consider it without extra funding”

Only a small thing amidst the nonsense, but heartening nonetheless.

132427 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Charlie Blue, 12, #295 of 1791 🔗

So, like everything else that comes out from this dictatorship it is complete bollocks

I’m noticing less and less police about. It’s as if they have had enough of doing the dictatorships dirty work

132439 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Cecil B, 1, #296 of 1791 🔗

Let’s hope so!

132735 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cecil B, 5, #297 of 1791 🔗

My dog walker was telling me this morning that there were two police cars outside the primary school local to her at drop off time today. Presumably some local has snitched and adults chatting and children playing is a far greater priority than catching robbers.

133496 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cecil B, #298 of 1791 🔗

Unfortunately, we’ve still got plenty down here in Bournemouth. I see one or two cars each day when I go out. Used to be I never saw any.

132422 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #299 of 1791 🔗

Looks like NY gathering in London for the fireworks are banned, just for TV

132425 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #300 of 1791 🔗

And some people wonder if all of this hasn’t been planned??!!

All on the timetable. If people have any sense they will still go if only to protest.

132469 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #301 of 1791 🔗

People have mentioned Christmas, but what about Guy Fawkes night? Presumably cancelled, as the government wouldn’t want parallels with that plot being made…

132478 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 7, #302 of 1791 🔗

One silver lining – no bloody trick or treating this year …

132500 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to kh1485, 4, #303 of 1791 🔗

My daughter is 4 and loves getting dressed up for trick or treating. We give out as much as we get from others and only go to houses which have pumpkins outside them. Regardless of any rules, I suppose this year I’ll just set the pumpkins out on the drive and see if any brave souls show up for some non sanitised sweets. If the police knock I’ll give them some haribo and send them on their way.

132539 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #304 of 1791 🔗

Any chance you could give them chocolate laxatives?

132555 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #305 of 1791 🔗

I’ll save those for the COVID marshalls!

132674 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ewan Duffy, #306 of 1791 🔗

Lemon sours ?

132559 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #307 of 1791 🔗

Sorry, LL not meaning any offence. But for a certain section of society it is a date that fills us with dread.

132563 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to kh1485, 1, #308 of 1791 🔗

Ah yeah I understand, where I live it’s all parents with small kids going up and down the road to each others houses. But if I had teenagers taller than me showing up I’d get quite annoyed!

132492 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, 2, #309 of 1791 🔗

I spoke to someone from lewes and the celebrations are cancelled this year.Shame because they are spoilt for choice in whom to put on the bonfire this year

132676 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #310 of 1791 🔗

Two of the leading societies have said they won’t be participating. Whether every scally who likes setting off explosives will comply is a different matter.

132671 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 2, #311 of 1791 🔗

Bonfire night, Carrie. Originally Samhain, the early November quarter day, when our ancestors lit huge bonfires on top of hills.

Like other things, co-opted by more recent happenings. 🙂

132719 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to JohnB, 2, #312 of 1791 🔗

Funny as well that the Eve of Samhain is Halloween. The night when you disguise yourself so that the dead don’t recognise you when they wander around, due to the veil between the worlds being the thinnest.

Politicians take note

132764 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, #313 of 1791 🔗

Different usages I guess, but for many Samhain is half-way between the Autumnal Equinox and the Winter Solstice.

132426 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 38, #314 of 1791 🔗

In a strange sign of the times, the headteacher at my daughter’s school mentioned in a newsletter yesterday how good it was that some parents were wearing face coverings to drop their kids off (it was approx 5%). Fast forward to today, 75% of idiots wearing them, anything for a virtue signal and a pat on the head! Fucking idiots.

132444 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 13, #315 of 1791 🔗

I had a similar experience at my car club meeting last Sunday. At an outside meeting that was held three weeks ago there were no masks at all. This time two people wore masks and within a few minutes most of the others had grabbed theirs and put them on. Once again we were outside. Oh dear!

132491 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Biggles, 13, #316 of 1791 🔗

It’s ridiculous. I’ve no idea how to combat this silly behaviour. It’s encroaching on every aspect of life now.

132586 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #317 of 1791 🔗

Loud and proud!! Went to the cinema the other night with a large group my OH knows. One lady came over to say hello, with a mask half on. She said, ‘I don’t know whether to wear my mask or not’. ‘I won’t wear one’, I said. She took it off. Her poor husband was trying to eat popcorn and his mask was stretched from one ear over his nose to the other ear. I was surprised he didn’t keel over. I also have a bit of a mantra about determining my own level of risk and refusing to allow the government or shops etc to dictate to me how they think that risk should be managed. They either get bored and move away or want to keep chatting about it.

132562 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Biggles, 5, #318 of 1791 🔗

What stupidity. Spoke to a customer yday, she walks with 2 sticks, she says she does not like masks, but it is easier to go along with it.
I pointed out how dangerous they are and can make you ill.
But sadly I think most people “go along with it”.
A colleague wanted to pop into the supermarket for a few bits on the way home from work, she did not have a masks, so instead of going in without, she popped along to a friend who lives nearby to get one!

132526 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 24, #319 of 1791 🔗

I’m the only parent that does not wear a mask when I drop of my daughter at school..One of the moms asked my wife If i’m one of those ”deniers” and if I feel ok that I’m putting lives in danger. My wife told her in a nice-middle class sort of way to mind her own fucking business . People are sheep, my wife banned me from talking about this in the house as she has realized that the truth is to much to take..

132545 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Thomas_E, 18, #320 of 1791 🔗

I’m the only parent that does not wear a mask when I drop of my daughter at school.

Ditto me. Who gives a fuck.

Can you imagine it:

‘Daddy, why are you wearing a mask?’

‘Because the government told me to.’

132588 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to TJN, 14, #321 of 1791 🔗

Yeah, fuck that.

Parents are supposed to set a good example to their children. I’ve tried not to make a huge deal of everything with my 4 year old going on 14, because she’s too young to understand the difference between ‘following rules’ and ‘following pointless rules’, but she has noticed in the shops that almost everyone wears them apart from me and her Mum.

She now instinctively dislikes them and even suggested without prompting that we should make a ‘NO MASKS HERE’ sign and put it on the house! (We haven’t made one but it was tempting!)

132605 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 14, #322 of 1791 🔗

Parents are supposed to set a good example to their children .

The essence of a 900-word email I sent to the headmaster of our local school explaining why I would not be wearing a muzzle, as he had requested, when dropping off our 4-year-old at school.

132788 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to TJN, 5, #323 of 1791 🔗

I’m so confused about this. Isn’t dropping kids off at school an exclusively outdoor activity?!

132805 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 5, #324 of 1791 🔗

Yes, but we’re talking insanity here.

132975 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to TJN, 6, #325 of 1791 🔗

‘I suffer from intelligence’ is one of my reasons for not wearing a mask.

132668 ▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #326 of 1791 🔗

Parents are supposed to set a good example to their children

I paid my sister a visit yesterday, and during our “Tea & Biscuits” chat she happened to mention that her 14 month old granddaughter had said to her mum “Mask Mummy ” (apparently, she wasn’t wearing one) when they were out shopping.

Ye Gods!

132900 ▶▶▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #327 of 1791 🔗

this is why I am on this site: a mixture of sound argument, humour, and expletives.

132986 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 14, #328 of 1791 🔗

None of the parents at my daughters primary school are wearing masks. We’re on the South Coast where there are an awful lot of zombies but not on the school run. At least not yet anyway…

The school have had to employ the governments playmobile rules, no singing, no head turning, no socialising with other ‘bubbles’, etc. When I asked my 8 year old about this she said that the rules were ‘silly’ and that none of the kids take any notice of them unless the teachers are looking…

I laughed and told her good on the kids for seeing through the nonsense.

If you’re reading this Boris or (door) Matt the Cock fuck off & die in a ditch please. Ta.

133144 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #329 of 1791 🔗

Straight out of the Behavioural Science handbook. These people almost deserve to end up in a pit being limed. Perhaps when these total idiot-sheep offer themselves up for the vaccine and end up popping their clogs the rest of us can do our own reset!

132430 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #330 of 1791 🔗

I now think that this “government” and our poor downtrodden country is in real danger of losing control of law and order.
Not content with frightening susceptible people which sadly seems to be the majority of the population, they (the government) now are perhaps unwittingly causing panic.
We are led to believe that a quarter of those who ask for a cv test absolutely don’t need to and now we hear of others turning up at overstretched A&E’s asking and no doubt with some idiots “demanding” tests.
I truly fear that civil disobedience and even riots will break out.
I am finding it very hard to stay optimistic unless someone somewhere (legally of course) puts an end to this collective madness.

132913 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #331 of 1791 🔗

if people do resort to civil disobedience because they have been panicked into thinking they will be unable to get tested (which until this week they didn’t know they wanted) it will be entirely the creation of the government, probably intentionally

Next thing they will burn down Westminster Palace, blame it on a half wit who they will say is a sceptic agitator.

132433 Jules, replying to Jules, 15, #332 of 1791 🔗

Mr Bowles making a film about the year is a good idea. Making it at all “lighthearted” is not. This is serious grief that is being caused to the nation at every level. It is ruining people’s present and damaging people’s future (younger people in particular). We are facing an economic depression that will leave people hungry and hopeless. Not many laughs there.

132441 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Jules, 6, #333 of 1791 🔗

They are so out of touch. Reminds me of the song ‘Common People’ by Pulp:

I said, “Pretend you’ve got no money”
She just laughed and said
“Oh you’re so funny”
I said “Yeah?
Well I can’t see anyone else smiling in here”

132475 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 5, #334 of 1791 🔗

Then there is the Pink Floyd lyric from “Time”

“Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way”

132488 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Jules, 2, #335 of 1791 🔗

Roger Waters is one of my heroes.

132703 ▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to PastImperfect, #336 of 1791 🔗

But is he a sceptic when it matters?

132554 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Jules, 4, #337 of 1791 🔗

I think humour is a very important weapon against pomposity and hubris – essentially what we are up against here.

It’s the humour which gives Toby’s posts their sting.

But I wholeheartedly concur about the scale of the tragedy we are facing.

132973 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, 1, #338 of 1791 🔗

I’ve got a mashup of The Last Supper interrupted by hi viz cops
” I don’t care who your dad is, this is an illegal gathering “.

We need to mock these clowns out of office.

132448 Don't say much, 6, #339 of 1791 🔗

Sadly I can’t say I’m surprised by the survey. I suspect a survey with the question along the lines of “Should people who argue against the restrictions, be interned indefinitely” would have a majority for yes.

Amongst the many gloomy thoughts I have had over the past six months. I think I have got an answer to Dorothy Parkers who’d go Nazi question. The answer being the overwhelming majority.

132453 Tim Paton, replying to Tim Paton, 17, #340 of 1791 🔗

Again I watched the ITV news in Horror and sadness last night (15th Sept). First story was a piece about what might happen if the second wave happens with Preston making a load of wild and irresponsible assumptions. The second piece was a story about the economic effect of covid on the people of coventry. They interviewed many people who had lost jobs and were desperate. Do these lazy journalists realise the theory of cause and effect. If they continue running stories like the first one then more people will suffer (like in the second story) Are they too thick to realise that they are a big part of the problem….

132455 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tim Paton, 4, #341 of 1791 🔗

Peston has been keen on this from the start

132487 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Julian, 6, #342 of 1791 🔗


‘A Columbia Journalism Review expose reveals that, to control global journalism, Bill Gates, has steered over $250 million to the BBC, NPR,NBC, Al Jazeera, ProPublica, National Journal, The Guardian, The New York Times, Univision, Medium, the Financial Times, The Atlantic, the Texas Tribune, Gannett, Washington Monthly, Le Monde, Center for Investigative Reporting, Pulitzer Center, National Press Foundation, International Center for Journalists, and a host of other groups. To conceal his influence, Gates also funneled unknown sums via subgrants for contracts to other press outlets.

His press bribes have paid off. During the pandemic, bought & braindead news outlets have treated Bill Gates as a public health expert—despite his lack of medical training or regulatory experience.

132462 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Tim Paton, 6, #343 of 1791 🔗

Coventry city centre is an utterly desolate place at the moment. I really can’t exaggerate the level of economic depression and sheer gloom you get from walking around it. The centre of the city has died.

132508 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Liam, 7, #344 of 1791 🔗

Same here in Nottingham and I suspect anywhere with high public sector workforce. They are all set at home and that won’t change this winter.

132566 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Liam, 5, #345 of 1791 🔗

Ditto Central London. OK there are people out and about but offices, shops. museums, even certain cafes and restaurants are devoid of people.

Every time I go there, it always looks like the aftermath of the Zombie Apocalypse.

132466 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Tim Paton, 5, #346 of 1791 🔗

Not thick at all. The only problem for them would be running out of fear porn to keep people glued to the screen.

132471 ▶▶▶ Tim Paton, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #347 of 1791 🔗

yes agreed. But its all so wildly inaccurate. the chat with Peston reminded me of chat between two mates in the pub both of which had no clue of the facts

132483 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #348 of 1791 🔗

They don’t need to worry they will have plenty of civil unrest to report on soon.riots always look good on tv

132456 Mike May, replying to Mike May, 6, #349 of 1791 🔗

Almost thirty years I had a memorable conversation with a colleague who insisted that, were it not for evil Tory cuts to the health system, his 95-year-old father – a lifelong heavy-drinking, sixty-a-day man – would not have died a few months earlier.

Against this background, I have a theory regarding the current government’s continuing response to COVID-19.

Factor in Theresa May’s characterisation of the Conservatives as the ‘nasty party’ and we become aware of a general feeling among the population that the Tories are an unlikeable and unliked bunch. And the current Conservative government, propelled by a wave of social media commentary, feels this very strongly.

So here we are, with a new virus the world has never seen before (wavy-screen flashback to February/March).

Government analysis: “I’ve seen ‘Contagion’ – millions will die!”
Government response: “We have to do all manner of things to protect people from this virus or we’ll be blamed for all those deaths!”

Fast forward through a couple of months of wall-to-wall doom-mongering designed to convince us all of our impending doom and get us to toe the line on all the measures being imposed.

Cut to the present day when, to all intents and purposes, the virus has ceased to be a threat, and we could, if allowed, return to our normal (actual normal, not new-normal) lives. and let the tail end play itself out.

However, there will still be some deaths as there will be in any population. And every CoVID-19 death that occurs after we are released from our chains will be atrributed not to CoVID-19 but to the evil Tories, who callously forced us out into a dangerous world before it was safe to do so.

So they continue with lockdown. For our own good.

132472 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Mike May, 12, #350 of 1791 🔗

Some people think the government lockdowns are part of a conspiracy, so the question that arises is: “Why should this be so?” Is there any reason? There might be some things happening that just appear to benefit from there being a lockdown with a Behavioral Insights Team helping the BBC to scare the people shwitless. The danger of the disease is over-hyped and the government changes the rules to make it look as if many more people are dying from it than is actually the case. They then decant sick people into care homes where there is very little medical assistance and add all those that die there to the numbers dying from the disease. The mantra becomes that we can only relax the lockdown rules when a vaccine becomes available. Enter left, a philanthopist, who takes a great interest in these matters agrees to help chivvy this along if you can chip in a few million/billion pounds. He is a major funder of the entities in this field (WHO – 4.3 Billion, Imperial College – 280 Million, Oxford University – 243 Million, Prof. Chris Wittey – 40 Million, BBC Media Action – 53 Million, CDC – 155 Million, GAVI – 3 Billion, Johns Hopkins – 870 Million, NIH (Fauci) – 18 Million). The prime minister ponces around with world leaders and promises large sums of taxpayer money to the philanthopist’s favourite fund and directly to vaccine manufacturers so that we can all be vaccinated with an incompletely tested vaccine, one where all the ferrets died when exposed to the disease and for which the manufacturers have no liability if the vaccine kills or maims tens of thousands. Still, we have millions of syringes ready so they really must go ahead with vaccine production. They are training recruits too so that they can make sure everyone is protected. To ensure the populace is well informed, the philanthropist gives money to all the news outlets that will take it and so make sure they never hear the word Hydroxychloroquine. Hydroxychloroquine is banned for use with the disease in most western countries where the death rate is much higher than countries that used it prophylactically or in the early stages of the infection. It just so happens that the head of the centre for disease control in the United States has an interest in a competitor for treating the disease and produced false evidence to attempt to discredit HCQ. But this minor conflict of interest is not the main concern. It is that if the fact that HCQ treatments can be 100% effective in the early stages of the disease becomes universally known, then people will know that there is absolutely no need whatsoever for a vaccine. And the philanthropist is on record saying that he makes 20 times a much money from vaccines than anything else. So there you have it, no smoking guns.

132688 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #351 of 1791 🔗


You’ll need paragraphs to convince people …

133507 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to JohnB, #352 of 1791 🔗

Yes, I skipped to your comment. Unfortunately (not that there’s anything wrong with yours!)

132499 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike May, 8, #353 of 1791 🔗

They continue with lockdown for their own good, not ours.

Yes, I think your analysis is a good one – that’s a large part in my view of what has driven them to this point. Though one should never forget that they deliberately frightened the population more than they already were, using every means at their disposal, and continue to do so. So I think they must still be blamed, as they helped shape public opinion rather than are simply victims of it.

In any case, knowingly doing the wrong thing because that’s what the public seem to want is reprehensible and possibly criminal. Only following orders…

132523 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 4, #354 of 1791 🔗

In any case, knowingly doing the wrong thing because that’s what the public seem to want is reprehensible and possibly criminal. Only following orders …”

They are elected to exercise judgement. If “the people” really are demanding something they recognise will be disastrous, then their job is to say so, and if necessary to resign rather than to implement it. It’s hardly as though any of them would be cast onto the breadline and their families starve if they were to do so.

Of course, that would require integrity and courage.

132691 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Mark, 2, #355 of 1791 🔗

Of course, that would require integrity and courage

No sign of that in Norwich:


Quite how long she will remain married, now that her husband has been “Outed” as conspiracy theorist, is another matter:


He’s a bit OTT regarding the existence of the virus, but describing the government as ‘globalist puppets’ and ‘tyrants’ is spot on…

132524 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Julian, 8, #356 of 1791 🔗

They will be blamed for lockdown and the ruin it has and will cause to jobs, businesses, mental health, social cohesion, social interaction, community, wellbeing, the economy, suicides, marriage breakups, child abuse, missed diagnoses and treatments, division (zealots and deniers), loneliness, fear and excess deaths.

Anything missed?

And rightly so, they are to blame, but also all the major opposition parties, virtually no MP or elected official has stood up and condemned these actions, they are collectively culpable.

Our political system is not fit for purpose, and our media are even worse, they are with few exceptions a disgrace to their profession. Instead of constantly parroting the incessant numbers and fear porn they should have been challenging the numbers and forcing government to prove their figures, how many actually died from the disease? Produce the post mortems that confirm this!

132542 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Kev, 6, #357 of 1791 🔗

They really don’t care…by then the 100000 strong para military wing of the government – so called Covid Marshals will roam the streets with impunity and the police will tell them what a great job they are doing protecting the public. Mask will be worn EVERYWHERE (including outside), there will be a curfew, they will be able to go into your home without a warrant, detain you etc…Conspiracy theory, this is just what they have passed in Victoria Australia, the land of the free…and the politicians will never be held to account because the population will beg them to take their freedoms in the disguise of safety.
”They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

133570 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #358 of 1791 🔗

I would hope many of the several million veterans, who certainly did not put their lives on the line to spawn a totalitarian government, will have something to say about this disaster. I wish they had already spoken up, but I haven’t seen a “Veterans Against Lockdown” site yet.

132946 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Kev, #359 of 1791 🔗

Sadly I suspect what they will be blamed for is not locking down sooner and harder, and not extending furlough indefinitely at 100% and bailing out all the businesses they have wrecked. That is what Labour will say they should have done, and I think people will vote for it.

132522 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mike May, 5, #360 of 1791 🔗

I found this on the dark web. Leaked rebrand of the Tory party..

132546 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to PoshPanic, 6, #361 of 1791 🔗

careless bears.. and you do realise there are 7 and not socially distanced

132887 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Mike May, #362 of 1791 🔗

If this was a UK issue, I’d be minded to agree. But it’s not. This is going on all over the globe.

132460 Dan Clarke, 8, #363 of 1791 🔗

https://americanpolicy.org/2020/08/24/killing-them-softly-with-a-mask , I find this stuff very worrying but no one is standing up and demanding even an investigation, they are being ignored.

132463 Binra, #364 of 1791 🔗

Why serve as a mouthpiece for yougov polling pr?

If you are going to quote it – do so within rigorous critical analysis.

132468 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #365 of 1791 🔗

Today is the last day firms can give employees the required 45-day notice period if they intend to make 100 or more proposed redundancies at the end of the furlough period.

Wonder if the figures will be published?

132481 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Sarigan, #366 of 1791 🔗

It’s unlikely the figures are collected.

132485 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Sarigan, 3, #367 of 1791 🔗

I’ve been wondering why the jobless figures aren’t being published on MSM. During previous economic downtowns the MSM have gleefully touted banner headlines: Over 1 million jobless! 1.25 million unemployed! Out of work carnage! 3 million families affected! etc. But at the moment all is quiet.

132603 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to bluemoon, 2, #368 of 1791 🔗

I suspect the plan is to have high enough unemployment to justify a new Universal Basic Income scheme. It could be tied to a social credits scheme for state approved behaviour (such as yearly vaccines and a digital health passport). This really is the ‘Great Reset’.

132479 yohodi, replying to yohodi, 7, #369 of 1791 🔗

Shortage of tests: When a supine, risk averse coddled community regards waking up with a sore throat or the sniffles as a reason to burst through the walls of their hoarded toilet roll, in order to be first to the nearest corona testing station.

132518 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to yohodi, 11, #370 of 1791 🔗

Yes,I am as “woke”,BLM, remainer,left-wing etc as a working class 71 year old can be but in all those years I have never known such a NAMBY PAMBY,WIMPISH,FRIT(FRIGHTENED) bunch of idiotic morons that the majority of our people now appear to be.

132484 p02099003, 1, #371 of 1791 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvPndr9DMZQ Dr. Sam Bailey put under pressure to remove her video on RT-PCR testing, which she has resisted doing.

132489 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #372 of 1791 🔗

Unrelated, but there again, perhaps not – think vaccine going wrong, birth-related problems due to lack of care (partners banned from delivery rooms):


Plays a bit into my narrative of a nasty Temperance undertone that links prohibition, controlling of women as the conduit to controlling their men (smokescreen of emancipation), and the climate change/XR bandwagon. All the same forces at work as in the lockdown?

132705 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #373 of 1791 🔗

The parallels are all there of course, the precautionary principle taken to extremes, gold-plating the guidance without evidence, (cf the 2 metre rule, masks), extending the evidence of foetal alcohol syndrome in women with severe alcoholism to unwarranted assumptions about a social drink here and there, use of mysterious algorithms to predict terrible consequences – but then women are often the target of these sorts of campaigns to control their behaviour, for their own good of course. And their baby’s. You’re a terrible person if you won’t conform, a.k.a. deciding to make up your own mind on the evidence.

132490 D B, replying to D B, 10, #374 of 1791 🔗

Toby, while I appreciate it’s humorous to laugh at the woke joke that is BLM and most of it’s associated press – I don’t really think it helps our cause. If we really want to turn the tide we need to turn moderates not massive left wingers, if I shared that with some of my peers or family who are mask wearers and some lefties, they wouldn’t be returning readers.

Maybe set up a woke watch page if that’s what you’re interested in but lets not do a government and mix the message. Just my 2bob worth but as a Project Manager I’m familiar with the power of a single, clear narrative.

132493 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to D B, 2, #375 of 1791 🔗

Part of Toby’s interest on this forum is free speech. He has never made a secret of that.

132497 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to bluemoon, 2, #376 of 1791 🔗

I know that but if we want to use it as a tool for converting people, I really don’t think it helps – suppose I could link out to the articles but I like the synopsis view etc.

132520 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to D B, 4, #377 of 1791 🔗

I agree with you, Daniel. Toby’s work over at the Free Speech Union website is excellent and well worth support and a browse but I believe it is important to stick with the central issue here.

132517 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to D B, 2, #378 of 1791 🔗

You should know in that case that you can’t fractionalise the mindsets of such people with partial truths. They are invested in a religion, of sorts, and cannot break a part of their belief system off from the rest of the body of belief. They invest in all of it, blindly.

132535 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #379 of 1791 🔗

I think that’s possibly the case but I know a few wavering moderates who could be converted if they read some facts but I wouldn’t want to engage in them on BLM or the woke agenda whilst trying to tell them their views on masks could be challenged.

132643 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to D B, 3, #380 of 1791 🔗

I agree. There is a lot of anti lockdown/mask/distancing stuff that I like which ends up linking in other issues. I often agree with what is said on the ‘other issues’ but am reluctant to share with my more ‘moderate’ or ‘mainstream’ friends and colleagues, because, rightly or wrongly, I know it will instinctively put them off.

133520 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to D B, 1, #381 of 1791 🔗

I’m a left-wing ex-Guardian reader who came to this site to escape the pro-lockdown insanity over there. I keep reading, despite the “woke” and anti-BLM comments.

But I am extremely frustrated and angry about how our lives have been stolen from us and more than half the population driven to psychosis.

It would be nice, though, if commenters could stick to the topic at hand. I understand the desire for free speech but I also know it’s a bad idea to yell fire in a theatre (and drive away the curious who come here to learn about scepticism).

133711 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to D B, 1, #382 of 1791 🔗

I am a massive left winger. I’ve been around here awhile, and there’s more of us than you think. I fucking hate the WOKE.

Pandering to tyrants and babies will get you no where. We’ve all placated them far too long…. that’s a large part of why we’re in this mess.

132496 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #383 of 1791 🔗

A question. Do the same ‘rules’ on entering shops, public transport, apply to entering solicitors or estate agents offices?

132514 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #385 of 1791 🔗

Thanks Sam. Mr TT just had a bit of a spat with two receptionists at the solicitor’s office, both sat shoulder-to-shoulder behind a screen, when they tole him abruptly he needed to wear a mask next time. He said there would not be a next time! By the way, he walks with a stick, so to the uninformed observer, he is disabled!

132595 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #386 of 1791 🔗

His (our) exemption trumps the requirement in their premises, simple as. But you knew that. Then again, a half hour has passed since I looked at the rules, so it could be different!
Hang on… staff in a SOLICITOR’S office are effectively saying “You can’t come in again without a mask” and offering no concession to disability? Really?

132724 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #387 of 1791 🔗

Receptionists – solicitors and doctors premises – always seem, in my experience, to overstep the mark when talking to their customers/clients. These are the types who would volunteer to be Covid marshals.

132752 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Sam Vimes, #388 of 1791 🔗

Sue the blighters

132511 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #389 of 1791 🔗

I went into my (former) estate agents the other day to collect my key and was maskless – nothing said, though she did ask if I “minded” using their pen to sign for it …!

132503 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #390 of 1791 🔗

“A leading scientific advisor told me: ‘Lockdown is the only thing that we know works, to be frank. I think that if we want to keep schools open, we probably have to give serious consideration to a wide range of other measures to stop a major second wave. And we have to think about doing that right now – which we are starting to do’”

 This is from Robert Preston’s article. If this is true, it must be obvious that the scientific advisors haven’t learnt a thing. At best, lockdowns just postpone the day of reckoning like in NZ, Australia but mostly lockdowns just aggravates the situation. Peru with an early military lockdown must be the best example of how catastrophic lockdown works with the highest deathrate from C-19 in the world. The only lockdown the scientists can show that worked is China, which invented the lockdown, but what trust can you put in China? A totalitarian solution working in a totalitarian country for a disease which has 0.3% IFR.

132516 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to swedenborg, 1, #391 of 1791 🔗

I do not think it is accurate to state ‘The only lockdown the scientists can show that worked is China’. What is it you think lockdown achieved in China?

132565 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Saved To Death, #392 of 1791 🔗

I am not stating anything just the scientists generally believe in China’s lockdowns.Persnally I think China realized that this was like a flu and had it run through the population hiding it in flu statistics pretending the lockdown worked to inflict damage to the Western world and influence it even more.

132594 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to swedenborg, #393 of 1791 🔗

Genuinely curious – What makes you think ‘scientists generally believe in China’s lockdowns’ ?

Believing in lockdown is also very different to having evidence that it achieved a particular goal. Science is about evidence not belief.

132871 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Saved To Death, #394 of 1791 🔗

Scientism is the new religion. Believe in DELVE. Believe in SAGE. Believe but question nothing. Believe in models don’t question.

132938 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #395 of 1791 🔗

I wish someone would ask him why Sweden is not experiencing the same rise in cases as everywhere that locked down… If he replies ‘wait two weeks’, I’m confident he will be waiting in vain..

132504 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #396 of 1791 🔗

According to this article, another new symptom of long covid, is wanting to smash up TV sets and screens, I shit you not!
Looks like us LS readers might have long covid?

132694 ▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #398 of 1791 🔗

There is a cure! Drop the TV license and don’t watch it…

132509 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 4, #399 of 1791 🔗

Spectator lead article warns we are two weeks away from a potential significant return to national lockdown. It’s Robert Preston, so not especially confident he is right.

I cannot for the life of me see either my wife keeping her job if we lockdown again. God save us.

132512 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Leemc23, 1, #400 of 1791 🔗

Wonder why when the hospitals are empty, sooner they get rid of those advocating it the better. They are now blaming it on groups of more than 6 even though they cannot possibly know that, its all lies

132529 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Leemc23, 10, #401 of 1791 🔗

“‘ A leading scientific advisor told me: ‘Lockdown is the only thing that we know works, to be frank.'” – Really? There is still no empirical evidence that lockdowns work. There just isn’t. It’s not enough to claim that infections/deaths fell after lockdown because there is no way to prove that the decrease was caused by locking down, as opposed to the virus just dying away. Correlation does not equal causation. Even if one does accept the argument that lockdown contributes to a fall in infections, it’s just not a feasible long-term solution given the enormous collateral damage lockdowns cause and how every time the disease levels rise again, you have to lock down again because you have no immunity in an endless cycle which cripples modern societies.

It is utterly insane how lockdowns are still being considered as a legitimate measure but there just does not seem to be any acknowledgment of how harmful or disruptive they are – it’s like it’s the only way to combat the disease, at ANY cost.

132540 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Poppy, #402 of 1791 🔗

While we focus a lot on masks and the very mixed evidence, the studies on lockdowns and social distancing are so few, it’s hard to find them. You would think at least once, there would have been some coverage of scientific trials or studies on social distancing in the MSM, but no.

132557 ▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #403 of 1791 🔗

There is a reason for this, these studies don’t exist, these are pure arbitrary and untested. There is no scientific basis whatsover for lockdowns, distancing or “unspecified” masks or face coverings. A used mask is by definition a bio-hazard, how should these be safely diposed of? If they are fabric and washed, at what temperature should they be washed to make them safe again?

Across the World distancing isn’t even consistent, here it was 2m (now 1m +), US was 6 feet, other places were 1.5m, 1m or even less, to quote Noel Gallagher its “bollocks”.

132944 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kev, 1, #404 of 1791 🔗

Are they not observing what has happened in Sweden, where there is as yet no new uptick in cases.. in fact rather the opposite..

132587 ▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #405 of 1791 🔗

But in the end why is any of this debate on what works continuing for a virus where 99.6% are not on the mortality list and the average age of those who died being 80. Surely, as has been said time again, support those,as with any winter virus, that may be susceptible and leave the rest to get on with their lives.

132582 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Poppy, 2, #406 of 1791 🔗

Actually there were fewer deaths than the five yearly average from the beginning of the year until after the lockdown measures were introduced, and the deaths only fell back to fewer than the five yearly five after the lockdown measures were eased.

132749 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Poppy, 3, #407 of 1791 🔗

Peston always talks complete rubbish. It’s always ‘a government source” or similar without naming names. He’s just a shill for establishment propaganda.

133523 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Poppy, #408 of 1791 🔗

Lockdowns work to impoverish and demoralise the public.

132939 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Leemc23, #409 of 1791 🔗

The only thing that makes me take notice of Peston on this is that if I remember rightly, it was him who got the scoop on the ‘rule of 6’… he may have an insider source informing him of what messaging to send out.

132510 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #410 of 1791 🔗

How have Sweden been able to resist the global masters, are there really global masters who want to smash the countries or individuals or want to smash their own country

132552 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #411 of 1791 🔗

You only need IMF, The World Bank, the BoE and the ECB and such and you already control most of the economy in the world.

132830 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #412 of 1791 🔗

That’s a question that I have often asked myself.

132947 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #413 of 1791 🔗

As someone living in Sweden, I do have some ideas on that..

132515 Dan Clarke, 8, #414 of 1791 🔗

at the beginning of the last century many sanatoriums were built for people with respiratory illnesses for ‘fresh air’ to help heal them.

132519 Binra, replying to Binra, 3, #415 of 1791 🔗

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Ignorance and arrogance are two sides of a coin.
“Always mask malice with stupidity”.
‘Malice can operate the stupid, while they believe they are ‘doing the right thing’.

Malicious or destructive intent also arises from fear.
“Save yourself by sacrificing or selling out on others”.

This also operates as stupify your own mind so as not to know what you do – or what is being done to you. This is the Answer of the new normie – give up awareness in exhange for an identity that is set in fear, by reaction, as a sense of control, by which to be led by the nose.

Fearful people can be very dangerous.
When the whole system is a house of cards, extreme measures are established by which to ‘regroup’ through controlled demolition. Nothing personal. It isn’t malice – excepting when the system breaks down a target and the insider’s have a party. It is systemic – as ‘the way the world works’ according to those with the means and the intent to work it.

I quite agree that the downside of taking things personally is the become paranoid, resentful and malicious in return. That is the downside to con theory as Them.

They need your consent to fool you – and so when they have done so (whoever they may be) you received an education, and perhaps a humiliation. Focus on the former and be more compassionate towards yourself. Self-malice is so readily observed as to be a ‘normal’. Consider NOT hating and judging yourself for what hindsight says you SHOULD or should not have been or done or thought or whatever.
Education is the key to an expansion of awareness in which wiser choices can replace limited or ‘stupid’ reactions.

132642 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Binra, #416 of 1791 🔗

One question: qui bono?

One admonition: follow the money.

132521 Adamb, replying to Adamb, #417 of 1791 🔗
132692 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Adamb, #418 of 1791 🔗

This link gives a page not found error 404. Is the article from today’s edition?

132718 ▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Ozzie, #419 of 1791 🔗

Sorry, copied the link incorrectly: Lockdown sceptics are distorting the science


132776 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Adamb, 3, #420 of 1791 🔗

We are living through the worst infectious disease pandemic since 1918. While the human and economic costs have been very high, the global response to this threat has been remarkable. Nearly a million deaths have been reported, but mortality would have been far higher had the world not adopted measures that would have seemed inconceivable just a year ago.

Presumably he genuinely believes this, and is deep into a committed denial, along with his group-think bubble.

I don’t have (and don’t want) a Times subscription, but I do wonder how he addresses the reality that no country in the world (except San Marino) has experienced more than 0.1% deaths whereas his models predicted much more than that even with strong mitigation, and numerous countries have done far less than the strong mitigation scenarios he proposed. How he addresses Sweden, how he addresses Belarus, how he excuses Peru with one of the tightest lockdowns but one of the highest death rates.

If his understanding were anything close to correct, there would have been some countries that actually sustained deaths higher than a bad flu year.

The fact that death tolls have been so consistently relatively low despite the variation in responses strongly suggests the responses have played little part in suppressing them in most countries (aside from a few which have managed to mostly keep it out – so far). Far from the “worst since 1918”, this disease looks pretty straightforwardly comparable, at worst, with the 1957 and 1968 flu pandemics. both death tolls are estimated at 1-4 million (the equivalent, adjusted for population growth, of 3-10 million and 2-8 million, respectively).

The current covid19 death toll is creeping up to 1 million, with no good reason to suppose it will explode again.

132951 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, 1, #422 of 1791 🔗

I wish someone would ask him in a live interview to explain how his model for Sweden got it so totally wrong…

132527 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 17, #423 of 1791 🔗

Speaking to his counterparts from the G7 leading industrial nations, Sir Lindsay Hoyle said the pandemic shows people are prepared to accept limitations on their lifestyles if they recognise it is for the greater good.
He added that he was surprised by the willingness of millions to wear masks and accept new rules. ‘No one could ever imagine we would be so compliant.’
The gullible will be our downfall.

132569 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #424 of 1791 🔗

I always think these statements leave out some rather relevant factors, and would only be relevant if the said people had all complied without enforcement.. First of all, any restrictions were initially presented as very short term, wasn’t the initial lockdown for a few weeks only. Then when people weren’t fully complying, we were threatened with fines, road blocks and daily threats ftom Hancock et al. Then the psychological assault began, stoking fear through the media to heighten sense of personal threat, the message non compliance would kill others, mountains of signs , media messages – psychological interventions are applied because they are effective. So, for a populous that have been threatened and coerced mentally and physically, it is not surprising that many ( not all, that is the likes of us) succumbed.

132956 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, #425 of 1791 🔗

Lindsay Hoyle, who would be classed as vulnerable (he has diabetes) is likely to be biased on this..

132533 mjr, replying to mjr, 5, #426 of 1791 🔗

A nightmare !! Jeremy Vine show … “should covid marshalls be given police powers” . then a pretend scenario with Vine standing with loads of cardboard cutouts and Jasmine Alibi Brown as a yellow vested marshall.
what a farce

132597 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to mjr, 1, #427 of 1791 🔗

They would love to give them police powers – however thankfully we have the Police Union who are always desperate to keep as much power as possible to themselves.

132541 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 16, #428 of 1791 🔗

Is Robert Peston the most dangerous man in the UK?

Someone who seems to be rubbing his hand together with glee looking forward to millions losing their jobs and suffering long term other health issues.

There needs to be a collective effort to stop him.

He did the same muck spreading through the Financial Crisis and Brexit and he is a threat to our freedoms.

This is a man who can’t even work out to unmute himself on live TV.

Please someone stop him making wild and ill informed statements.


132548 ▶▶ CGL, replying to hotrod, 5, #429 of 1791 🔗

You sound as desperate as me – I just want it to stop. Why do they want to live like this?

132592 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to CGL, 7, #430 of 1791 🔗

Because they are attention seeking stirrers who get pleasure causing others pain.

I am desperate.

Someone needs to help people like me.

133530 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to hotrod, #431 of 1791 🔗

You’re not alone. Lots of us need help. But what we need most of all is for the government to leave us alone.

132584 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to hotrod, 7, #432 of 1791 🔗

He like Piers Morgan should be arrested and tried for genocide and/or crimes against humanity.

Come to think of it, the rest of the MSM should suffer the same fate as these two clowns.

132616 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to hotrod, #433 of 1791 🔗

And what is wrong with his voice.He sounds like a frustrated actor

132741 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #434 of 1791 🔗

He’s a frustrated something.

132958 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #435 of 1791 🔗

He takes an age to ask a question, really milks his chance to speak by talking extreeeeeemely slowly…

132544 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #436 of 1791 🔗

The huge money behind vaccines. How large pharmaceutical companies are immune from prosecution when vaccines go wrong, including Sir Patrick John Thompson Vallance’s GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) . How Hydroxychloroquine is being suppressed because they know it would make vaccines for Covid 19 redundant

Science can’t operate without money, which makes it easy for people with money to corrupt science.


132550 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #437 of 1791 🔗

Hi everyone, just a quick question.

Following Carl’s excellent work, they now are revising the way Scotland hospital figures are calculated.

Am I correct in thinking then that this does not apply to the figures in English hospitals and nothing needs to change here?

I know they changed to this 28 day window for deaths, but was unsure whether this applied to how they treat hospital admission numbers too?

132583 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #438 of 1791 🔗

I’ve been wanting to know this too. And surely it shouldn’t be based on arbitrary time frames anyway, but the condition the person in hospital is actually being treated for whether covid “positive” or not?

132641 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mrjoeaverage, #439 of 1791 🔗

I think CEBM has also queried the Welsh hospital stats. Will be interesting to see what Carl says in front of the Science & Tech select committee tomorrow afternoon.

132972 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to mrjoeaverage, #440 of 1791 🔗

I doubt that the same problem arises in England, as the reason they focussed on Scotland was that the figures were so disproportionate to the English figures.
The same for the Welsh number in hospital with Covid, where they have 30% of total but only 3% of the population.

132558 swedenborg, 1, #441 of 1791 🔗



 The first link relates to the quotation below
The second link is the quote from the CDC article discussing restaurants as being dangerous for C-19.What is extraordinary is the CDC trying to bury the information that masks didn’t protect for C-19.

“However, when reporting/discussing their findings, they don’t say “There was not a significant difference in mask wearing between those who test positive and those who test negative.” While I am glad they didn’t bury it, the fact that they don’t say it seems intentional.

132561 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 3, #442 of 1791 🔗

Just printed songs for my wife. New term of Rock Choir on Zoom. Very sad days!

132698 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Steeve, 1, #443 of 1791 🔗

First session back last night. Not feeling it any more

132564 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 6, #444 of 1791 🔗

The rule of sex. Do not have sex with more than six people at once apart from under exceptional circumstances and always stay safe.

132589 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Hubes, 4, #445 of 1791 🔗

Damn it…there goes my plan for this Saturday annual 10 is a magic number orgy..

132617 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Hubes, #446 of 1791 🔗

Zealots will want it completely banned, at least half of them probably think it’s a patriarchal sexist construct or similar wokeybabble.

132936 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Hubes, #447 of 1791 🔗

Just bring some balls. Sports are exempt.

132567 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 17, #448 of 1791 🔗

If lockdowns, social distancing and wearing face masks are effective in preventing the spread of the transmission of a virus that causes respiratory illness, why are flu and pneumonias at five yearly average rates?

132570 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #449 of 1791 🔗

Must assume it nothing to do with any of that?

132579 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #450 of 1791 🔗

Because…flus are smaller than ronas?

132738 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to DRW, #451 of 1791 🔗

Flu size 80-120nm, rona 120nm so no difference.
According to the CDC
“Both are spread mainly by droplets made when people with the illness (COVID-19 or flu) cough, sneeze, or talk. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.”

So it shows that the masks should protect against rona and flu.

132797 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Thinkaboutit, 1, #452 of 1791 🔗

Of course, that was a joke but the zealot would say the extra 40nm makes all the difference.

132620 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #453 of 1791 🔗

Glad you asked this! I have been wondering the same….

132631 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #454 of 1791 🔗

Because it’s nothing to do with a virus and never has been.

132677 ▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #455 of 1791 🔗

Because you can’t legislate for a microbe?

132858 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 1, #456 of 1791 🔗

Microbe Hancock. It just came to me!

132568 Dan Clarke, 11, #457 of 1791 🔗

There are a lot of evil people who have now taken centre stage to wreck the lives of billions

132573 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #459 of 1791 🔗

Be a good journalist Robert Peston and investigate Sir Patrick Vallance’s relationship with his previous employer GlaxoSmithKline (GSK). 2006 – 2018

According to Wikipedia: “In July 2012, GSK pleaded guilty in the United States to criminal charges, and agreed to pay US$3 billion, in what was the largest settlement until then between the Justice Department and a drug company.”

132629 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #460 of 1791 🔗

Now with (corrupt) WHO (that changes its tune to political pressure).

132630 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #461 of 1791 🔗

As I posted earlier, he was head of new drug development prior to the rolling out of Pandemrix as far as I can see from his Wiki page.

132574 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 10, #462 of 1791 🔗
132580 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ewan Duffy, #463 of 1791 🔗

But population density… the Swedes are more likely to follow the rules than us retrograde Brits… they basically locked down anyway in all but name…

Etc etc etc.

132961 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #464 of 1791 🔗

No we did NOT lock down over here!!!

133045 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, 1, #465 of 1791 🔗

I know – but that’s the argument that people are using now to discredit Sweden’s success.

132649 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Ewan Duffy, #466 of 1791 🔗

But why have they never reported this for the UK (or perhaps they have)?

132730 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #467 of 1791 🔗

Johan Carlson, the director general of Sweden’s public health agency, also said last week the strategy had been a success because it meant messages to the public had been clear and consistent, placing the emphasis on personal responsibility .”

Gosh, if only we had had a government formed from a political party that emphasised personal responsibility. If only we had elected the Conservative Party last year instead of some NHS-worshipping, politically correct collectivist radicals who believe in state coercion and the magic money tree, rather than individual responsibility.

What’s that you say? We did elect them? Don’t be daft – what kind of lunatic could believe that actual,conservatives would have chosen the policies we’ve seen over the past six months!?

132769 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #468 of 1791 🔗

The Cuckoo Party, unfortunately this correspondent, who shares your view that ‘the party that governs this country is not the Conservative party’ then places her faith in ‘ parliamentarians of all parties unit(ing) to drive these interlopers out.’

132916 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, #469 of 1791 🔗

No idea who the correspondent is, nor (I suspect) do I share much with her beyond recognition that the current government is in no meaningful sense conservative. I suspect she’s one who thinks that the Cameron and May governments were “conservative”, in which case she has little grasp of the reality.

132581 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -17, #470 of 1791 🔗

From the LS article

“This is a bit awkward for the Government. The day after its new draconian “Rule of Six” regulations are introduced, the ONS reveals there were fewer deaths in the week ending September 4th.”

So what? the ONS figures only go up to September 4th. There is a lag. Infections will have occurred at least 3 weeks earlier (i.e. mid-August) – well before the big uptick in cases. Symptomatic cases have almost trebled since August 25th. Current numbers won’t have a big impact but the trend is a concern.

For crying out loud sort this out. Too many arguments put forward on this blog are too easily refuted.

132590 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Mayo, 7, #471 of 1791 🔗

Correction: Your arguments are easily refuted

132598 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Strange Days, -11, #472 of 1791 🔗

By all means refute them. Another typical response in which someone tells me I’ve got it wrong but cannot say how.

132596 ▶▶ sceptickat, replying to Mayo, 5, #473 of 1791 🔗

Where have you seen figures for symptomatic cases? I have only seen figures for ‘cases’ with no definition of what that means. A case seems to be a positive swab, could be symptomatic, asymptomatic or false positive.

132601 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Mayo, -11, #474 of 1791 🔗

Oh dear – another one.

SAGE Knows All About the False Positive Rate

Of course they know about them. They probably found out about them when they were doing a basic statistics module as an 18 year old student.

It’s the reason they consider different lines of evidence.

132656 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 4, #475 of 1791 🔗

I was certainly aware of the phenomenon of false positives as an undergraduate. By the time of my doctoral studies I had to be able to explain and mitigate the impact of these on my analysis and conclusions. At viva my examiners would not have been satisfied if I had simply obfuscated by referring them to alternative sources

132662 ▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Mayo, 1, #476 of 1791 🔗

“… on 3 September the government announced a substantial investment of £500m (€558m; $661m) to support trials of wider mass population testing, as well as a quicker “20 minute” saliva test for covid-19.” See: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3482

132766 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Mayo, 1, #477 of 1791 🔗

It’s the reason they consider different lines of evidence.

What evidence are they using? As far as I can see, the Government is basing policy decisions on raw positive test cases, with no allowance for FPR.

132851 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mayo, 1, #478 of 1791 🔗

Do they? What are those other lines of evidence, clinical symptoms are disregarded once a test (singular) states positive.

132606 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 8, #479 of 1791 🔗

Good morning, Mayo. Where do we find the data about symptomatic Vs asymptomatic positive test results?

132618 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #480 of 1791 🔗

I would also be interested in where this data is since Mayo has mentioned it a couple of times. I have tried but can’t find it.

132623 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Jenny, -6, #481 of 1791 🔗
132628 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mayo, 3, #482 of 1791 🔗

I guess you are on ZOE’s books to do PR?

132644 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 3, #483 of 1791 🔗

A lot of guesses and estimates I see.

132622 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, -5, #484 of 1791 🔗

Good Morning. The Covid Symptom study has tracked symptomatic cases since March.


Note ~18k on Aug 25th now over 54k.

132633 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 8, #485 of 1791 🔗

Thanks, Mayo. We’ve been here before. Individuals self-reporting symptoms in this study do not state whether they have had a test, let alone what the outcome was. Of course since it is anonymous that would be unverifiable in any case. Is there actually published data reporting figures of those reporting symptoms at the time of testing who then received a positive result?

132635 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #486 of 1791 🔗

Beat me to it!

132652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #487 of 1791 🔗

Total number of people with COVID ( estimated from the app )

4,191,995 participants have downloaded the app and are using it to regularly report on their health (just over 6% of population). With people back at school and work, with supressed immune systems, hardly surprising people would report symptoms. No analysis of hospitalisations, tests or outcomes.

Also huge margins of error:

133129 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, -1, #488 of 1791 🔗

The Covid symptom survey has shown very close agreement with cases, surveys, hospitalisation & deaths since March.

133138 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mayo, 1, #489 of 1791 🔗

Again, would love to see the analysis on this.

Anything showing the correlation that you can share with us please?

132737 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 3, #490 of 1791 🔗

Could people taking part in the ‘Covid Symptom’ study be confusing c19 symptoms with symptoms for all the other coughs and colds that are about at this time of the year – how can they tell the difference?

I also wonder if people who get involved in these studies are not too eager to report the slightest hint of a symptom.

But the litmus test for this study will be related ICU demand and deaths of otherwise healthy people with C19 in the coming weeks…

132753 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Major Panic, 3, #491 of 1791 🔗

They aren’t confusing anything, Major P. They are simply asked to answer yes/no to a list of individual symptoms. However others may attempt to create confusion by claiming that those responses can be used to claim anything at all in relation to covid 19.

132758 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #492 of 1791 🔗

Ah, thank you.

132820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #493 of 1791 🔗

However, I noticed a section that allows users to state “I’m not feeling quite right” and then add in whatever symptoms they’re ‘experiencing’.

Well, I’m damn well not feeling quite right, but it’s got beggar all to do with having a case of the covids.

133536 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Miss Owl, #494 of 1791 🔗

I’ve felt sick to death for months. Not covid, though.

132625 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to Mayo, 6, #495 of 1791 🔗

The ‘second wave’ has been predicted since April, based it seems entirely on the Spanish Flu 100 years ago. Over the past 6 months we have had unbearable fear mongering.

  • Can’t let the football season re-start – players will DIE
  • Can’t let kids go back to school – kids and teachers will DIE
  • Can’t reopen pubs – people will DIE
  • Can’t go to the beach – people will DIE
  • Can’t meet in groups of more than six – people will DIE

And yet, during all this time, the death rate has declined.

Will the death rate increase over winter? Almost certainly, because this happens EVERY winter. Will hospitals get busy? Almost certainly, as this happens EVERY winter. Will this be attributed to coronavirus? Almost certainly by MSM. But we know there are still huge issues with how people are being categorised as being ill with COVID, so this analysis needs to be closely scrutinised. If the hospitalisations and the death rate are within the usual and expected ranges, then there really is no crisis.

132685 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tommo, 3, #496 of 1791 🔗

Perhaps the Spanish Flu (Flu Virus) had a second wave but there were none with Sars or Mers (both Corona Viruses). If there is any indication of a second wave, I believe it will be due to NPIs which delayed transmission and immunity.

132969 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tommo, 1, #497 of 1791 🔗

Deaths this winter (as usual) will be affected by the weather and by what strains of ‘normal’ flu are around. The most vulnerable have already died; I do not believe enough time has elapsed since the last peak to create a significant new group of ‘vulnerables’, with maybe the exception of new admissions to care homes..
If there are increased deaths this winter they are more likely to be from other conditions that have been untreated due to the NHS having become more or less exclusively a Covid service.

132632 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mayo, 8, #498 of 1791 🔗

Ah yes the lag. Is this the same lag that should have resulted in Sodom and Gomorrah 2/3 weeks after the VE Day Celebrations, The Cheltenham Festival, the pub rush before lockdown, the BLM protests, Bournemouth beach, the Cornwall tourist invasion, the failure to wear masks for the entire lockdown period, the return of schools in Scotland, etc. etc? The problem with this lag is that although it does exist it is used as a bogeyman to strike fear about what may happen and never about what is happening. You say the trend is a concern. It isn’t to me. It’s just another number until it actually means something in terms of hospitalisations and deaths over above what we’d expect in any bad flu season.

133125 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Achilles, -1, #499 of 1791 🔗

Is this the same lag that should have resulted in Sodom and Gomorrah 2/3 weeks after the VE Day Celebrations,

No. I never thought a few gatherings would show a detectable trend.

132650 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mayo, 5, #500 of 1791 🔗

You do make a legitimate point. though Toby’s point presumably was that this is politically awkward (or would be if we still had effective opposition and media scrutiny). The problem is that the opposition and media are still lying, distorting and misleading, but only in one direction – that of scaremongering.

The correct approach – that of observing the ongoing slow increase and waiting to see whether it will die way, steadily rise, or start to rise steeply, while recognising that this is nothing to get excited about anyway because this just isn’t a dangerous enough disease to disrupt our economy and society over, is not available.

132740 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mayo, 2, #501 of 1791 🔗


David Patton has the most useful statistics about C-19 in England published on twitter
In this recent slide 14 th Sept you can see hospitalisations going up and also some increase in ICU. The caveat is of course that C-19 hospitalisations/ICU use is from C-19 illness and not for something else. You can also see the increase in positive tests (with all caveats we know)
The symptomatic scoring (NHS Zoeapp) is of little use now with schools coming back and explosion of rhinovirus and symptoms indistinguishable from C-19. But objectively increasing hospitalisations and lesser degree ICU usage. Second wave? Hardly, most likely the repressed first wave coming back to reach herd immunity. Posted earlier Gomez article about projections of herd immunity and on page 32. Seem to predict the timing of the second spike, though much more prominent in Spain but exact timing


132845 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mayo, #502 of 1791 🔗

How many makes a trend?

132848 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Mayo, 1, #503 of 1791 🔗

What symptoms are you attributing to SARS-COV-2? Please quantify.

132591 swedenborg, 1, #504 of 1791 🔗


Herd immunity thresholds for SARS-CoV-2 estimated from 2 unfolding epidemics

 In this very complicated article from Gomes look at page 32 trying to describe the pandemic in light of social distancing measures taken. There you can see clearly the second peak in Spain as well as something approaching one in the UK. And look at the timing!

132593 Commander Jameson, replying to Commander Jameson, 13, #505 of 1791 🔗

Unfortunately the inverse of Hanlon’s rule is often apt:

Never attribute to incompetence that which is adequately explained by malice.

133547 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Commander Jameson, 2, #506 of 1791 🔗

I simply cannot believe that the politicians are that stupid. They know what they are doing and the response to this nonsense is too co-ordinated to be chance or stupidity. They are evil, and knowingly evil.

132599 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 6, #507 of 1791 🔗

Since May I have stuck slogans on my car, starting with Vernon Coleman’s “Distrust the Government, Avoid Mass Media, Fight the Lies”


School your MP. Most of them are asleep.- or inundated with people’s problems caused by government actions.

132608 ▶▶ Liam, replying to PastImperfect, 8, #508 of 1791 🔗

My MP is a gibbering, moronic halfwit who, if they could formulate a reply without help from an adult, would tell me that not wearing a mask in bed is institutionally racist, plus Brexit and Orange Man Bad.

132669 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Liam, 2, #509 of 1791 🔗

Yup similar here, my MP is a single guy, who shock horror may have met a single woman who may have been an escort so he “resigned” from reigning in the BBC – So zero courage there!

132614 ▶▶ DRW, replying to PastImperfect, 6, #510 of 1791 🔗

No point asking mine, complete loyalist stooge. Still, car stickers are a great idea for mobile advertising.

132637 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #511 of 1791 🔗

I sent the link to the Telegraph article to my MP. All I wrote in addition to the article was, ‘As I said ….’. I have already written more than once to urge him to be effective in reasserting parliamentary sovereignty.

132680 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #512 of 1791 🔗

I tried twice with mine. He just copied paragraphs from gov website. Didn’t even reply to my last email.
I don’t want to waste more time on him. He is a young conservative, elected for the first time last year.

133552 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to PastImperfect, #513 of 1791 🔗

My MP likes to post a lot on facebook but doesn’t seem to do a lot of email answering

132602 JohnMac, 14, #514 of 1791 🔗

So presumably you can sit on a train without a mask as long as you have a bag of crisps in your lap when the transport police appear?

132610 Ian Ca, 1, #515 of 1791 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac&t=2s Definitely worth a look if you’ve got half an hour.A few COVID facts and figures not much picked out by Main Stream

132611 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #516 of 1791 🔗


Draconian CDC measures for mothers infected with C-19 with new born.

Keep your new born more than 6 feet away from you as much as possible.

This world is mad. C-19 like EBOLA? Did we ever told them to do the same  thing for flu which is more dangerous for new born than C-19?

132626 ▶▶ Jo, replying to swedenborg, 5, #517 of 1791 🔗

Terrifying. Any paediatrician or professional involved in child development should be speaking up against this. (And wasn’t a new born INSIDE the mother for the last 9 months?) The madness is beyond imagination. Have I died and gone to hell?

132673 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Jo, 1, #518 of 1791 🔗

I feel like that every day – oh to wake up from the nightmare.

132687 ▶▶ anon, replying to swedenborg, 8, #519 of 1791 🔗

Pure evil right there

They also advise you to ‘wear a mask when within 6ft of your new born’

Absolutely disgusting and as usual de-humanising

132742 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to anon, #520 of 1791 🔗

Only in America…fortunately the NHS are rather more relaxed:
‘ Q.
After my baby’s birth, is there any increased risk to me or my baby?
There is no evidence that women who have recently had a baby and are otherwise well are at increased risk of contracting coronavirus or of becoming seriously unwell.

A recently pregnant woman’s immune system is regarded as normal unless she has other forms of infection or underlying illness. You should however remain well-nourished with a balanced diet, take mild exercise and ensure social distancing guidance is followed.

Children, including newborn babies, do not appear to be at high risk of becoming seriously unwell with the virus.

132621 Andy, replying to Andy, 3, #521 of 1791 🔗

I’m curious about the difference in positive test rates between pillar 1 and pillar 2 settings. If the prevalence in both settings is low (and the consistently low rate of hospitalizations and deaths and positive test results implies it is), then most positives should be false. Whilst the pillar 2 total positive rate (real and false) quoted above for the two weeks in August stands at ~1.5% and within the estimated false positive rate range from other RNA/Corona virus tests, the pillar 1 rate (false and real) for the same weeks is a mere 0.5%, outwith the 0.8-4% interquartile range.

Are they using a different methodology? A different Ct?

132634 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Andy, 1, #522 of 1791 🔗

I guess you’ve seen the (James) Ferguson paper on this site?


132663 ▶▶▶ Andy, replying to TJN, 2, #523 of 1791 🔗

Thanks, I have, but I don’t see any reference to Pillar 1 data. Since the false positive rate can’t be greater than the total positive rate, we could use the setting with the lower total positive rate to place an upper bound on the false positive rate in both settings, ie ~0.5% if the figures aren’t lying (as if!)

That does assume that the tests in the two pillars are directly comparable, which might not be the case if, say, pillar 2 tests are focussed on minimising false negatives in pursuit of zero-covid, whilst pillar 1 is actually trying to determine “does this patient actually have Covid?”

132696 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Andy, 1, #524 of 1791 🔗

Since the false positive rate can’t be greater than the total positive rate

What about the false negative rate?

These figures are an absolute mire, a complete mess.

I have some stuff to read on it later, which I am sure is going to deepen it the more.

As I understand it right now which might change) another problem is that they report +ve cases, but not the date of the test. So when trying to get a ratio, your average is valid only over weeks.

132727 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andy, replying to TJN, 1, #525 of 1791 🔗

I think with PCR you can have any FPR and FNR you want.We’re doing an extra 2% free special offer today, sir – how many cycles do you want?

132796 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Andy, 1, #526 of 1791 🔗

Yes, the whole thing is founded on shifting sands, as far as a scientist is concerned that is. For the politician, or scientist-politician, it enables them to deduce whatever they want.

132683 ▶▶▶ Andy, replying to TJN, 1, #527 of 1791 🔗

I take back the first bit of my reply to you below, JF does indeed point out that pillar 1 and pillar 2 tests are handled by different organizations. It would be very interesting to see what the respective Ct and statistical algorithms are for NHS vs. DeLoitte/Ugentec.

132672 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Andy, 1, #528 of 1791 🔗

This is interesting. I gather from my pathologist friend that all hospital admissions (pillar 1) get tested -both acute and scheduled (surgical), that they are repeating positive tests and only count them if the 2nd test is also +ve. I can’t get them to tell me the number of cycles in the PCR tests. It may be that fewer pillar 1 patients are symptomatic than community (pillar 2) so that could explain the higher number of +ve tests in the latter. However I think it’s much more likely that they are not repeating +ve pillar 2 tests so that there are many more false positives.

132695 ▶▶▶ Andy, replying to DocRC, 1, #529 of 1791 🔗

Good point. And we also need to know the basis on which individuals are selected for testing in each setting, given the limited capacity atm. Pillar 1 won’t be random beyond “you’ve been admitted for something”, but is it further biased (eg towards particular wards, or suspected symptoms). Pillar 2 could be anything, including the job you do, or how much of a hypochondriac you are. Repeat testing seems to be a more urgent requirement than project moonshine to me….

132744 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andy, -3, #530 of 1791 🔗

I’m curious about the difference in positive test rates between pillar 1 and pillar 2 settings.

Get out more. 🙂

132801 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to JohnB, 2, #531 of 1791 🔗

It’s actually very important – as it may show that the Pillar 2 data, which is being used to inflict god-knows-what on us, is garbage.

Going out into the sunshine now though, to see if I can make my stinking cold worse.

133095 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TJN, #532 of 1791 🔗

Leaving aside people with a sense of humour lockdown …

Government, advisors, health/medical organisations, and the media, have been studiously avoiding facts for 6 months now. I really cannot see them giving up and going home in tears because Pillar 2 data, whatever that might be, is not correct.

The proportion of the population that has been brainwashed and traumatised into a cult state is highly unlikely to be swayed by rational argument. They need emotional/psychological healing first.

So, imho, not ‘very important’. Possibly useful, yes. My comment was a joke above all else, not intended to slag off anyone’s worthy efforts. 🙂

133182 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to JohnB, 1, #533 of 1791 🔗

I understand it was a joke and I didn’t down-vote you!

Your paras 2 and 3 are, I’m sure, spot on. But there are sensible people out there who can and increasingly are being persuaded. Hence I think seeming arcane questions like this are of importance.

And I’ve said for months now, the Sceptics are winning the humour battle hands down. Where humour goes, rationality eventually follows.

133516 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TJN, 1, #534 of 1791 🔗

No, I wasn’t accusing you TJN. 🙂

On reflection you’re right, there will be a small but intelligent ready-to-turn group that factual argument can sway.

To win this thing, we’ll need facts, humour, political and media allies, conspiracy theorists, local councillors, doctors and nurses, sensible senior police positions, feet on the ground at demos, leafletting, letter writing, one-to-one conversations, civil disobedience, etc. etc. It was wrong of me to belittle anyone on our side’s efforts.

Must control facetious tendency.
Must control facetious tendency.

133923 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to JohnB, #535 of 1791 🔗

That’s ok JohnB – I never thought you were being anything but jokey!

Being facetious is sometimes the only way to deal with what we are facing right now.

132646 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 16, #536 of 1791 🔗

Occasionally you do come across a glimmer of hope,I live in a small country town in Shropshire whose MP,obviously Conservative has a majority of over 23,000, so “how true blue can you get?”
I visited our local opticians and of course, the usual hand sanitizing, mask,etc fiasco so I “came out” and said I was a sceptic to which the receptionist said ” There are a lot of people who say the same and you are not on your own”
If there are rumblings in the tory shires, hopefully among the plebs,riff raff and the great unwashed working class,these “rumblings” might become an earthquake.
We can but hope.

132682 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Fingerache Philip., 13, #537 of 1791 🔗

The most commonly expressed view among the many working class blokes I know and mix with is that “this is all absolute bollocks”, and that they’re fed up to the back teeth with it.

132779 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Liam, 3, #538 of 1791 🔗

That is my experience totally,but this is the demographic who doesn’t normally protest and have no voice politically.

132945 ▶▶ Graham, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #539 of 1791 🔗

I presume you mean Ludlow. See you in the Wicked Grin some time!

132648 Monty Bodkin, replying to Monty Bodkin, 6, #540 of 1791 🔗

Toby refers (above) to a recent YouGov poll which suggests that “69% of Brits – and a majority of all age groups – say they would support a 9pm curfew on pubs and bars to help reduce COVID-19 cases.”
I have been taking part in YouGov surveys all year and I was never asked my opinion about this. Indeed, a few weeks ago I saw the result of another lockdown related YouGov poll to which I hadn’t been asked to contribute. I had, however, made my feelings known in an earlier survey and my cynical mind can’t help thinking that maybe expressing a dissenting viewpoint might lead to sceptics being eliminated from subsequent YouGov surveys. This would mean that the quoted “69% of Brits” might actually be 69% of already identified non-dissenting Brits; the others having not been invited to take part. Statistics eh?

132715 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to Monty Bodkin, 3, #541 of 1791 🔗

I had exactly the same experience. In the end I gave up

132773 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Monty Bodkin, 2, #542 of 1791 🔗

When will people realise that polls are a tool for influencing public opinion not measuring it.Search you tube for yes minister/opinion polls.The great Sir Humphrey Appleby explains it all

132831 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Monty Bodkin, 1, #543 of 1791 🔗

Part of their ‘daily questions’, for what it’s worth. Just open the app and they’ll be there. Different to the ones you’re ‘invited’ to give a view on.

132657 RickH, replying to RickH, 20, #544 of 1791 🔗

As it stands, rehearsal tomorrow is cancelled”

This was the message from the hard-working secretary to the musical organisation of which I am a member, after weeks of trying to find ways of resurrecting activity.

Now, I’d already decided that I wouldn’t join any rehearsals that involved wearing face muzzles or anti-social distancing – but I’ve always appreciated that organisations are caught in the STASI trap – so I don’t make a point of it.

But this is just but one organisation being hammered by arbitrary totalitarian nonsense. Extend this six months of social damage in just one area of life across the nation, and we see what is being done.

I have sometimes thought that my use of images of Goebbels, Mengele and the Nurnberg Trials was a bit too much hyperbole.

But no, this deserves a Nurnberg-type reckoning.

But how to get there with a nation hypnotised by – in the succinct words of Noel Gallagher – ‘Bollocks’.

132710 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #545 of 1791 🔗

There will – sadly – be no Nuremberg-style reckoning, short of a successful revolution, which must still be regarded as a remote possibility, if no longer inconceivable. But there’s no guarantee any “good guys” win, even if the principal lot of bad guys are overthrown.

Too much of our establishment has been complicit, as was the case with Iraq (only more so, in this case), for which there was never any real reckoning. Had the Opposition opposed, rather than pushing the government hard in the wrong direction, perhaps there could be some hope after an electoral shift, but no. Labour were worse than the “Conservatives” and played its part (under Corbyn, as it happens, even before the snake Starmer took over) in stampeding the government out of the Swedish-style approach it initiated in March.

UK’s chief scientific adviser defends ‘herd immunity’ strategy for coronavirus

132659 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 9, #546 of 1791 🔗

January for the first death now? I am convinced that I came back from my Nottinghamshire home town with it after Christmas. Sickness followed by fever, headache, joint pain and fatigue, followed by restricted high breathing (I am a singer so my breathing is normally very low). No ‘cold’ symptoms whatsoever.
It is known that it was in Italy before Christmas. My home town has a large population of Italian origin who may well have decided to have a last trip ‘home’ before Brexit, or had relatives to stay. Many work in the hospitality industry, where I spent time! I also spent Christmas Eve with doctor friends who could have picked it up at work.
No blame attached to any of those people; it’s how viruses work, but it would imply that herd immunity was becoming established far earlier than the government believes.

132701 ▶▶ John P, replying to Caroline Watson, 4, #547 of 1791 🔗

“Sickness followed by fever, headache, joint pain and fatigue, followed by restricted high breathing”

Mmm, sounds like the flu. I had some covid symptoms over a year ago in August 2019. High temperature for a day or two and a persistent dry cough that lasted for weeks.

I went to the quack my GP and he had a look inside my mouth and told me to go home. No medication necessary.

132775 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to John P, #548 of 1791 🔗

quite a few people i know had an illness late last year that had covid symptoms

132661 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #549 of 1791 🔗

‘Hanlon’s razor’ was an entry in a book of jokes about why things go wrong. It is a joke, not a basis of informed opinion or judgement. It also disguises lazy thinking (see above).

If TY were to apply Occam’s razor (a more serious proposition) to the issue he would not be able to so blithely dismiss the argument that the Government’s intentions are malign.


132708 ▶▶ John P, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #550 of 1791 🔗

Nah, I’m with Toby on this one.

It’s generally (perhaps not exclusively) those without higher qualifications who still seem to regard graduates as some sort of higher beings who cannot be anything other than supremely intelligent.

Yah, thanks for the compliment, but it’s a load of bollox.

University graduates, perhaps particularly ones in government, are just as prone to stupidity and illogicality as anyone else.

132722 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to John P, 3, #551 of 1791 🔗

Most also lack real world experience, and base their idea’s on untested theories about how things should work.

EU fishing quota’s is a classic example, if you assume that all fish species swim in perfect single species shoals it would work a treat.

132771 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Kev, 1, #552 of 1791 🔗

no – they assume that fishermen can sort the fish after they have caught them and they will still be alive when they throw the discards back – so that fish caught by mistake and not in quota will happily swim away and not end up dead .

132723 ▶▶▶ ArchieMD, replying to John P, 2, #553 of 1791 🔗

I’ve definitely seen an association between seniority of academic qualification and disproportionate reaction to Covid. In my job I do health assessments for a variety of reasons including advising on suitability to return to work because of Covid. Most lesser qualified workers, manual workers and non-graduates are just keen to get back. Graduates are the most concerned and worried, even after you talk through the age stratified mortality data with them, and compare it to other risks that are a common part of life.

132826 ▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to ArchieMD, 2, #554 of 1791 🔗

This is a strange phenomenon, which I have also noticed. I’m in the final year of my PhD dissertation in English literature. My topic is in the literature and science area, and I have been a sceptic from the very beginning. I very early turned off Twitter. I stayed on FB merely because I’m at a university not in my home country and use it to keep in contact with my family. I refer to official government data and read peer-reviewed articles, but am, to my knowledge, the only person in my discipline who is a sceptic… I espouse very far, true left, politics, but am very grateful for this website because at one point early on in this whole idiocy, I truly thought that maybe I was a psychopath or sociopath!

132891 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Emily Tock, #555 of 1791 🔗

You have to remember that peer review simply means that the arguments put forth are deemed worthy to be entered into the discourse for your subject. Not that they are correct.

During my PhD (in Physics) we saw many peer reviewed papers that were just wrong. They don’t usually get retracted. They just hopefully get ignored.

132901 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Emily Tock, #556 of 1791 🔗

What, very far, true left politics like the Revolutionary Communist Party ? They became influential in Conservative Party Eurosceptic circles after the dissolution of their party, while remaining closely associated with each other’s endeavours.

133511 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Emily Tock, 1, #557 of 1791 🔗

Hello Emily. I teach in a humanities department and as far as I can tell I am completely alone in my lockdown/zero covid/mask-wearing scepticism. I have heard colleagues say that if we return to teaching in person this term ‘people will die’. It is truly bizarre to me too.

132736 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 1, #558 of 1791 🔗

You’re right, John, in that degrees don’t mean absence of stupidity or illogicality.

But just now you posted about being too nervous to go into a shop once. People will make assumptions based on this, and imho rightly so.

132716 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #559 of 1791 🔗

So government’s hide their malign intent by intentionally making themselves look completely incompetent and leaving themselves open to ridicule and therefore unlikely to be re-elected?

132739 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to The Spingler, 3, #560 of 1791 🔗

Yes. Four years of rule by diktat pushes minor considerations such as re-election well into the distant forests.

132763 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to The Spingler, 1, #561 of 1791 🔗

It’s part of the psychological operation that we have been subject to.I really believe we won’t be allowed to vote again.

132984 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #562 of 1791 🔗

My experience (in disability politics) is that when a government wishes to target a group, they will pretend to that group to be well-meaning but incompetent. It is only with hindsight that it becomes clear that there was a cunning plan all along!

132670 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 10, #563 of 1791 🔗

Finally, the third and most likely explanation is that western governments were panicked into taking dramatic decisions.

I don’t buy that. Maybe at the start of the “pandemic” it would have been a good explanation. But right now the decisions being made are so idiotic and run contrary to science and common sense that the explanation is not possible. One would have to be implausibly stupid to make such decisions. The second explanation is the most obvious as far as i’m concerned.

132748 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #564 of 1791 🔗

I think panic at the beginning and now a combination of stupidity, self interest, inability to backdown and reading false positives as true ‘cases’

132755 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to steve_w, 2, #565 of 1791 🔗

Why do we need 10 million tests a day and a health passport then if it’s just a cock up?

132759 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #566 of 1791 🔗

don’t ask me. I think its because the pharma industry is pushing it and politicians and their advisors are stupid and/or corrupt

132842 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to steve_w, 1, #567 of 1791 🔗

Look at ID 2020.E U have been pushing immunity/health passports for years now.My view is that if it wasn’t a conspiracy at the start it definitely is now.Not just one either ,Myriad groups have poured into the fray to push their agendas

132902 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #568 of 1791 🔗

A better answer is hypnosis, as Scott Adams often talks about. Happens with Trump Derangement Syndrome too.

Politicians and their civil service helpers are in a circle-jerk of reinforcement. They then think they are doing a noble good and have actually lost the capability to see reality.

A form of brainwashing actually.

132678 John P, replying to John P, 33, #569 of 1791 🔗

“But actually, normality isn’t quite an accurate description. I’ve actually received more warm-heartedness from shop keepers, folks on the checkout, the chap at the builders merchants and the lady that runs the post office, than I had before this whole nonsense started. And I’m not wearing a mask the whole time.”

I have to concur with this. Just prior to the mandatory mask rule I stocked up on a variety of items so that I could avoid the shops as far as possible. I’m tighter than a gnats crack with money however, and I was not prepared to start paying for online groceries. I could also get some from my brother in law who is a butcher.

However, I could not avoid them completely. I needed to go to the printers. I needed to go to the post office. And I was running out of tea and milk.

I was really quite scared. I decided to go to a supermarket late one evening, but despite the time, saw a lot of maskers going in and coming out. I lost my nerve and returned home empty handed.

The first time I entered a supermarket unmasked was a few days later in a small walk in store. I was on a short walk anyway and noted someone coming out unmasked. She seemed to be okay, so I steeled myself and marched in.

I was completely ignored by the staff. Maybe got one or two startled looks from a handful other shoppers, but nothing to be concerned about.

Well, that was easy!

Next stop was the newsagent. I marched up to the counter and shoved an exemption card around the plexiglass and into his face.

He simply said, “I wasn’t going to say anything anyway” and served me.

I now keep the card in my wallet for emergencies, but I thus far I haven’t had to use it.

The staff in the post office I have found very friendly and respectful and the next week I went into that first supermarket I had lost my nerve about entering the week before and found it practically empty. I was in there again last night. The woman who served me last night seemed pleased to see a full human face and wished me a nice evening. I returned the comment.

So any of you out there who are avoiding the shops and opting instead for online shopping I urge to re-enter the shops. It may be scary at first, but it gets easier and it’s important to show the world that we are winning and that there is nothing to fear!

132700 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to John P, 8, #570 of 1791 🔗

Thanks for the encouragement. I haven’t been in a shop since this kicked off. Have to go to Waterstones to collect a book I ordered ages ago – you have given me some courage to do this.

132713 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Ozzie, 6, #571 of 1791 🔗

Go for it !

132731 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Ozzie, 15, #572 of 1791 🔗

My pilates class started up again last night for the first time since lockdown.

After receiving the email before hand about how to be covid compliant which included having to wear a mask at all times apart from when actually doing the class, I was honestly thinking about not going but the woman who runs the class is a friend and pilates really helps my bad back so I decided to go and test the water.

As I drove into the car park I could see through the window that the people already in the room, including the instructor were all maskless and having a good chinwag. Thank the lord. I strolled in and it was just like old times. Only one woman came in with a mask on and she whipped it off sharpish when she saw no one else was wearing one.

Out in the real world there are many many people who think the covid rules have gone totally over the top and whilst they might not kick up a loud fuss, they are returning to living normal lives, ignoring the government and the hysterical people. The hysterical folk must just spend their day on social media whipping up each others hysteria whilst normal folk are out living their lives.

133022 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to The Spingler, 1, #573 of 1791 🔗

Same for me at a yoga class at the weekend. No requirement for masks anywhere in the building. The instructor just said “Let’s all wash our hands and then we can forget about it for the rest of the session:. Which we did. No distancing (well, mats spaced out but everyone chatted at normal range), no sanitiser, all props and equipment still in use. It was lovely.

132750 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Ozzie, 6, #574 of 1791 🔗

Been maskless and only been challenged once.Just say the magic word exempt and you will be ok

132911 ▶▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #575 of 1791 🔗

yes, that does work, but does it work on plod?

132761 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Ozzie, 6, #577 of 1791 🔗

according to posts on here, Waterstones used to extremely zealous, However a post a couple of days ago indicated that for that branch of Waterstones, the attitude had changed and there was no problem. So give it a go
And for the record.. i wore a mask once for five minutes when barber reopened and he was really scared about the council mafia. Since then i have never warn a mask, do not wear a lanyard or badge, and just smile at everyone . Not once have i been challenged

132867 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ozzie, 2, #578 of 1791 🔗

Go for it. I was in Waterstones yesterday and wasn’t wearing a muzzle, in fact their mandatory muzzling signs also had the addition that non-mask wearers were welcome too.

Ditto with Hatchard’s a few weeks ago to collect some books that I ordered – came in without a muzzle, no problem at all.

133160 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Ozzie, 1, #579 of 1791 🔗

Ozzie – print off the government’s own information to show them. You wouldn’t believe how many people have no idea about exemptions – even people who should definitely not be wearing masks for health reasons.


132721 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to John P, 1, #580 of 1791 🔗

Morrison’s later on 8-30 ish is fine, no bother to date.

132729 ▶▶ Ian Ca, replying to John P, 2, #581 of 1791 🔗

Ditto all the way through. I haven’t worn a mask to date at all.

133157 ▶▶ Lili, replying to John P, 2, #582 of 1791 🔗

This has been my experience too. It DOES take a bit of courage the first time as you have no idea what to expect, but I had an exemption card with me just in case. I’ve never used it even when I’ve been asked (only twice) and simply say ‘I don’t wear one’ or ‘I’m exempt’. 90% of the time I just walk in. I’m now carrying the government’s list of exemptions to hand out to people and point out that there are exemptions cards and downloads on the Gov’s own website.

132679 Achilles, 11, #583 of 1791 🔗

Hey Boris, the microbes from Venus just called. They’re wondering when you’re coming home.

132686 PaulParanoia, replying to PaulParanoia, 4, #584 of 1791 🔗

If only 3000ish people a day are testing positive for Coronavirus, why do a further 237,000 feel the need for a test?

132743 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to PaulParanoia, 2, #585 of 1791 🔗

Great point. Many are doing this because the schools are insisting on it.

Many others are doing it because they are being asked to in certain towns and cities.

132762 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to hotrod, 3, #586 of 1791 🔗

Indeed, at the school my mate works at, all students, teachers and other public-facing staff are expected to get tests if they get even mild symptoms. One positive test from a slightly sniffley Year 7 has already gotten a whole year group isolated. Other employers probably have similar policies, a few weeks ago some local rag was talking up scary “outbreak plans” after a few B&Q staff tested positive. Of course, this black death is yet to descend on us.

132821 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DRW, 2, #587 of 1791 🔗

This is insanity.anytime someone sneezes everyone has to isolate until they get tested.Normal life is made impossible.Which seems to be the plan

132784 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to hotrod, 3, #588 of 1791 🔗

No clear guidance from the health department to the schools. Only mentions high temperature, coughing, loss of taste and smell.

Questions to determine whether a child must be tested:

  1. what is the official definition of a high temperature? Has this been distributed to schools?
  2. what is meant by coughing? cough every now and then, coughing without stop, hacking cough?
  3. if you have a blocked nose you can’t smell well, does this count?
  4. Display only the 1 symptom, display 2 symptoms or 3 symptoms?
  5. How do you make the distinction between a cold and the covid-19 virus?
  6. How do you make the distinction between a cold and the covid-19 virus?
132745 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to PaulParanoia, 2, #589 of 1791 🔗

I think alot is retesting the same NHS workers over and over again

132689 PaulParanoia, replying to PaulParanoia, 3, #590 of 1791 🔗

Covid Maths Quiz

Assuming 1% of the population has Covid-19. If you test 200,000 people per day using a PCR test with 2% false positive and 2% false negative rates, what is the probability that someone testing positive actually has Covid-19?

132702 ▶▶ Andy, replying to PaulParanoia, 1, #591 of 1791 🔗

196/596 by my maffs. But I’m not a professional.

132714 ▶▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to Andy, 2, #592 of 1791 🔗

Close enough. ~33% chance that someone testing positive has the virus. So assuming less than 1% of the population currently have Covid and the 2% false positive / negative is close to correct, it shows what a farce the current mass testing is at low levels of community infection.

132774 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to PaulParanoia, #593 of 1791 🔗

1 in 3 is a true positive 2/3 FP?

132835 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Will, 1, #594 of 1791 🔗

Someone posted yesterday that the actual infection rate from ONS surveys (people reporting symptoms, I think backed up by a test,) is around 30K. So only 0.05% of population of 66M. Which takes the ratios right down, they calculated you end up with only 3% of reported positives being true, 97% reported positives being actually false. I make no comment, I thought I understood it at the time but it seemed insane. I may have remembered it wrong.

133430 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Bruno, #595 of 1791 🔗

Yes, that was me. If true positives are 0.1% of population, and false positive are 2% of tests, then you get something like 2.1% positive results, of which the true positive contribute .1%, so about .1 out of 2.1 or 5%. It’s made worse because the test only reveals about two-thirds of all true positives, bringing it down even further.

What might seem insane is not this simple exercise in probability, so much as planning to spend £100 billion without deciding what you’re going to do about it.

132881 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to PaulParanoia, #596 of 1791 🔗

You don’t need to go into that detail Paul. Signal to noise is already terrible. When you run the maths you get the actual probability but at a glance the FP rate is a factor of two higher than the signal.

132690 Basileus, 15, #597 of 1791 🔗

There is quite a useful review article on the mask nonsense on Principia Scientific:


I like the photo.

comment image ?resize=550%2C350&ssl=1

132699 RickH, replying to RickH, 5, #598 of 1791 🔗

The extract from the article by Louis-Vincent Gave is interesting.

However – much as I am usually on the side of giving things an Occam shave, I think that the possibility of intentionality behind this manufactured crisis is underestimated (not that this excludes other motivatins).

The role of global capital seems too obvious now to ignore.

132794 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #599 of 1791 🔗

Is that why Jeremy Corbyn was such an enthusiastic zealot for it, at the crucial moment for the UK response (early March, when the Swedish-style policy was initiated and then rendered politically untenable by the likes of Corbyn)? What with him being a well known dupe for global capital, and all?

UK’s chief scientific adviser defends ‘herd immunity’ strategy for coronavirus

On Friday morning the pressure on Mr Johnson and his scientific and medical advisers to take more drastic action more quickly grew when opposition leaders, including Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn , challenged England’s deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries and minister of care Helen Whately on why the UK was taking such a different approach to other countries .”

132704 Cbird, replying to Cbird, 10, #600 of 1791 🔗


This is from last week so might have been posted before, but another loose woman speaks out. Carol McGiffin talking sense

132712 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cbird, 6, #601 of 1791 🔗

She, like her (former) colleague, Denise Welch, on stonking form.

132728 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Cbird, 6, #602 of 1791 🔗

Yep she feels exactly the same exasperation I feel of the gullible masses. They want to be controlled and we who don’t have no way of getting our lives back. The ignorance is astounding.

132706 TJN, replying to TJN, 3, #603 of 1791 🔗

Apologies if this has been posted already, as it’s a few days old now:


BMJ: Operation Moonshot: What do the leaked documents say?

The plan then states that there would be “full rollout” in early 2021 to 10 million tests a day, to “enable people to return to and maintain normal life.” At this stage, weekly testing would be made available progressively to the whole population to allow people to go to high risk events by using a “digital passport” to show they have tested negative for the virus.

Happy Days.

132732 ▶▶ DRW, replying to TJN, 2, #604 of 1791 🔗

Which will soon morph into a vaccine passport. This has been planned for some time.
Dave Cullen video: https://www.bitchute.com/video/4tLcwsCrAmI/

132746 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DRW, 5, #605 of 1791 🔗

It’s actually worse that that.You will have a tattoo imbedded in your skin with your vaccine history.This will then be scanned so you can access ‘normal life’.
But this is all down to incompetence.

132756 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #606 of 1791 🔗

And panic. Don’t forget panic. MW

132807 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #607 of 1791 🔗

I forgot panic,maybe at the start there was some of this but they have since realised how docile the population are and have pushed through schemes that have been waiting in wings they were marked too unpopular or unworkable.
A curfew to deal with a cold virus,how is that even thought about let alone seriously considered.

132829 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #608 of 1791 🔗

Sorry, I meant that wryly. I am a full-on conspiracy factist who cannot believe that anyone could see what’s going on as incompetence and panic even though, as you say, there might have been a bit of both involved at the start. MW

132861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #609 of 1791 🔗

p.s. It’s people like me who give this site a bad name. 🙂 MW

133086 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #610 of 1791 🔗

I knew that.im wearing a turquoise shell suit to go with my tinfoil hat these days

133167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #611 of 1791 🔗

🙂 MW

132772 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #612 of 1791 🔗

Ah yes ID2020, the final phase of this frog-boiling excercise.

132789 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #613 of 1791 🔗

Yes, and it’ll have your credit card details so you can just swipe your hand over the till …

Would have seemed madness a few months ago, but is plausible now.

133074 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #614 of 1791 🔗

Is it any different from the tattoos the SS gave to the Romany, disabled, homosexual and Jewish peoples?
Cattle tags.

133082 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, #615 of 1791 🔗

Modern version

132874 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to DRW, 3, #616 of 1791 🔗

The tattoos contain nanoparticles. If you look this technology up you can see that the nanoparticles have unknown toxicology risks (in part because they are so small the dose of foreign material the body is exposed to is proportionally higher) and because they can be absorbed into immune cells and transported around the body ending up in the brain.

132711 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #617 of 1791 🔗

Teachers marking their own homework:


The two people running this are Dr Peter Daszak (president of EcoHealth Alliance, partner firm of the Wuhan virology lab) and Professor Jeffrey Sachs (see spat with Hugh Hendry in aftermath of the Financial Crisis and draw your own conclusions

You really couldn’t make this up.

132853 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #618 of 1791 🔗

Quote: “It is hoped a full investigation will, if nothing else, will rule out “baseless and uninformed allegations and conspiracy theories that are unbacked by evidence”.

No bias there, then.

132910 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Catherine, 2, #620 of 1791 🔗

It’s no wonder that Irish media is so “on message” – I thought it was amazing that IT published the article in the first place but within the space of a few hours the message that HSE was distancing itself from Dr Feeley’s views was on every Irish media outlet. Three days later he “resigns”.

133613 ▶▶▶ Catherine, replying to godowneasy, #621 of 1791 🔗

My husband is Irish, his father had a stroke recently and he wants to visit (from the UK) but his parents are so wound up that they don’t think he should because of quarantine etc

132726 Kev, replying to Kev, 5, #622 of 1791 🔗

Rule of 6

25 million households in UK, 125,000 rozzers, do the maths.

132760 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Kev, #623 of 1791 🔗

100,000 at most

132765 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Cecil B, 2, #624 of 1791 🔗

I was being generous

132778 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kev, 1, #625 of 1791 🔗

So each plod gets 250 houses to cover. Hope they’ve got big overtime budgets …

132781 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Kev, 3, #626 of 1791 🔗

Yes, but how many snitches and collaborators?

132792 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark, 1, #627 of 1791 🔗


shave their heads

132800 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Kev, 1, #628 of 1791 🔗

That’s where the marshalls come in!

133141 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Kev, #629 of 1791 🔗

yeah but how many of the 125000 actually get their arses out of the police station and do active police work (and i do not mean dealing with nasty tweets ). That is one of the fundamental problems with the police .. not enough actually go out and those that do dont get out of the police cars … when i was a lad…. etc etc .. but then we respected the police. .That respect disappeared over 10 years ago

132734 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #630 of 1791 🔗

Why do Government ban a drug that clearly works?

Do we need a second Opinion on HCQ for COVID-19?


The bar chart indicates that those countries promoting the open use of hydroxychloroquine versus those attacking its use are doing much better keeping their case fatality rate lower.
What is the next freedom you don’t mind being removed?

“We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end.”

― George Orwell, 1984

132747 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #631 of 1791 🔗

Ivor Cummins 8/9 video.
Now 814k views in a week.

You are really missing out if you haven’t given it 35 mins of your time.

Better and more productive than PMQs – you decide!

132770 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #632 of 1791 🔗

35 mins of time sounds like a lifetime Basics. 🙂 Fancy summarising the areas covered – statistics, graphs, medical facts, political malfeasance, etc ?

132799 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 2, #633 of 1791 🔗

Graphs are down, fear is up.

132888 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to JohnB, 3, #634 of 1791 🔗

Not one of my friends values their liberty at 37 mins they can’t be bothered. I think it is brilliant.

133020 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to CGL, -1, #635 of 1791 🔗

I’m sure it is, CGL, but any attempt to find out wtf it is about gets cryptic responses.

132876 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to Basics, 3, #636 of 1791 🔗

yes, it is the one video to rule them all. Patient, meticulous, factual and unbiased. And, I should add, completely incomprehensible to a large swathe of the population.

132751 chris, 1, #637 of 1791 🔗

The article and video linked below states:

“In 2009 the W.H.O changed their definition of “pandemic” in order to create an artificial panic and sell billions of doses of untested flu vaccines, ruining at least 1300 young lives”.

In summary:

  • Governments all over the world sign “sleeping contracts” with pharmaceutical firms to buy flu vaccines in the event of a pandemic.
  • In 2009 the World Health Organization changed its official definition of “pandemic” to a much looser one (with no requirement for anyone to have died).
  • Just weeks later they declared the H1N1 flu a “pandemic”, despite minuscule numbers of deaths. We bought GSK’s Pandemrix.
  • This triggered sleeping contracts worth billions.
  • Governments were legally obliged to buy up and distribute untested flu vaccines.
  • The vaccines caused serious, life-long side effects in over 1300 children. and the goverment paid out millions in compensation under the Vaccines Damage Compensation Act..Legal immunity meant no pharmaceutical firm paid any compensation, instead reparations were paid by taxpayers
  • Many of the scientists who advised the WHO declare a pandemic were later revealed to have financial interests in vaccine manufacturers.

The video is a must watching and demonstrates the corruption in the world of drug making. The vaccine promotion industry includes many names we now know.

My own comment follows on from that video and bizzarely concerns President Lukoshenko of Belarus. In late July he announced publicly that he had been offered loans of millions (money) by the IMF and World Bank so that he could use it to support his country through the (false) pandemic. He refused it because he stated that under the terms of the loans he would have to shut down his country and follow Italy’s style/example of masks, shut downs, distancing etc.

So (I know this is tin foil hat territory) what if, having ordered at least £900,000,000 worth of vaccines our government now feels obliged or even compelled under terms of Rishi’s borrowing from IMF and World Bank, to prolong the fear and the false pandemic. All so that those vaccines ordered from GSK etc will be in demand or even mandatory. Clearly this will garner £$billions for the drug companies but perhaps the prolongation is now driven by BJ and MH saving face.

PS Lukoshenko was immediately demonised by MSM and his internal opposition praised. Now Putin has stepped in with a loan.

132754 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 18, #638 of 1791 🔗

Family in Sweden are saying they are being asked to go and visit their elderly relatives in nursing homes, but take sensible precautions (washing hands, not going if you are unwell, etc – sensible stuff)

presumably the biggest threat to the elderly and frail is loneliness and despair

132885 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Major Panic, 5, #639 of 1791 🔗

My brother said this right at the beginning of the lockdown. The elderly will suffer most because isolation is a killer. There was an article early in my LS days from someone who’s proportionately healthy 80 or 90 year old relative committed suicide because they had had enough.

132767 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sara, 8, #641 of 1791 🔗

The word “moonshot” jumps out at me.

The word “dickheads” jumps out at me. 🙂

132768 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 3, #642 of 1791 🔗

You couldn’t make it up….this reported in the Scottish Daily Record:-

care watchdogs launch a probe into a Scots care home that stages karaoke singalongs for OAP residents for breaching coronavirus rules.
The Wallace View Care Home in Stirling has been staging singing sessions with a microphone passed round residents to sing into.
But the Care Inspectorate is now investigating – as the singalongs are banned under coronavirus rules.
One anxious relative told the Daily Record they have made “numerous” calls to the privately run home raising concerns about the singing sessions’ potential to spread the virus.

132777 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Gillian, 2, #643 of 1791 🔗

The hospital “deck-clearers” need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

132780 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Gillian, 2, #644 of 1791 🔗

And how many residents have died with covid?

132786 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Gillian, 8, #645 of 1791 🔗

I believe recent research shows that feelings such as joy and love, particularly in conditions of personal autonomy, have been demonstrated to produce hormones which encourage the reproduction of the deadly virus.

Such situations must therefore be prevented from occurring.

Feelings of loneliness, depression and alienation on the other hand, keep the deadly virus in check, but only if helped by fully masking up.

Stay Miserable. Despair Utterly. Save Lives.

132927 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to calchas, 1, #646 of 1791 🔗

Good old Covy is a sensitive type, it spares the miserable

132782 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #647 of 1791 🔗

Re Phoney Covid Phoney Test Crisis.
12.15 woman ‘voiced’ onto Jeremy Vines show

“I don’t understand it, I work in a Covid testing station, we have 3,000 tests available but are getting only 30 people a day coming in. The staff spend all day on Netflix”.

132790 ▶▶ RickH, replying to karenovirus, 3, #648 of 1791 🔗

Well, luv – look on the bright side. Watching Netflix is a far less harmful pursuit.

132847 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, #649 of 1791 🔗

It’s called ‘The Harding Effect’ There are other previous cases of it recorded

132787 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #650 of 1791 🔗

Just a shout-out for the YouTube video on Sweden mentioned above :

Shopping in Sweden

It really does provide, by contrast, a graphic illustration of the ‘bollocks’ that is the UK

132806 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to RickH, 5, #651 of 1791 🔗

Thank god fro Sweden. The lockdown sceptic argument can be reduced to one word : “Sweden”.

132815 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to peter charles, 4, #652 of 1791 🔗

Haven’t you heard Peter, the Guardian and the BBC are now reporting that Sweden did actually lock down after all!?! You couldn’t make up the goal post shifting and hypocrisy.

132850 ▶▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to Will, #653 of 1791 🔗


132817 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to peter charles, 1, #654 of 1791 🔗

Yes – that’s the one I use.

Although it won’t stop the gullible believers falling over themselves to manufacture yet more ‘bollocks’ for their prayer book.

132828 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to RickH, #655 of 1791 🔗

Uplifting and demoralising at the same time.

132791 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 7, #656 of 1791 🔗

So Keir Starmer’s family member is fine and he can return to work.

But in a nutshell that is why we have a testing situation.

That person needed a test to go to school or work.

99% of people tested have a cold.

132793 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to hotrod, 4, #657 of 1791 🔗


132798 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #658 of 1791 🔗


132803 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to hotrod, 2, #659 of 1791 🔗

Why would a small child need a test at all.

132844 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to hotrod, 2, #660 of 1791 🔗

Why on earth can’t they just say if you’re feeling sick, stay home (maybe WFH if possible & not too bad) otherwise if you feel fine you probably are and nothing to worry about. Be quite happy for that to be the new normal. Possibly beef up sick pay policies to support it, if needed.

[obvs that is rhetorical… I realise the lunatics have taken over the asylum]

132872 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to zacaway, 2, #661 of 1791 🔗

How quaint. How are their mates going to cash in from that? Or their pet MSM going to whip up more fear from sPiKiNg CaSeS?

132879 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to hotrod, #662 of 1791 🔗

Not a fan of Keir or Boris buy have to say, it all appears a bit contrived.

132802 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #663 of 1791 🔗

The WHO is monitoring online conversations and emotions, using “social listening” to change COVID narratives

The company [WHO] has been creepily scanning more than 1.6 million social media posts each week to monitor online conversation. It then uses machine learning to classify information into four topics; cause, illness, interventions, and treatments. The WHO’s aim is to learn the coronavirus topics that are gaining popularity so that it can then create its own content to counteract and attempt to change the narrative.

The WHO’s “social listening” goes beyond analyzing people’s conversations for content, it also tries to analyze their emotions. Through language analytics, the technology detects emotions such as sadness, acceptance, denial, and anxiety. With such insights, the WHO hopes to come up with effective strategies to adjust coronavirus narratives.

133062 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, #664 of 1791 🔗

Great post. More knowing about this the better.

Nothing to hide yet they need to spend huge amounts of gates and uk funding cash on engineering narratives.

133482 ▶▶ Newmill Mark, replying to Victoria, #665 of 1791 🔗

Have they picked up on the fact that I’m furious that they are a bunch of fucking totalitarian liars? It will take quite some “counteracting” and “adjusting” to change that fucking narrative. Excuse my French…

132804 peter charles, replying to peter charles, 1, #666 of 1791 🔗

Listening to dear James Delingpole with Dan Wootton, I noticed that even Dan Wootton was stating that a 2nd wave is inevitable. I also hear most commentators stating, on the back of increased testing, that cases are going up. These two statements are both highly questionable.

132811 ▶▶ RickH, replying to peter charles, 6, #667 of 1791 🔗

These two statements are both highly questionable.”

That’s an understatement.

They are both totally unsupported by evidence. Thus – in terms of the much-vaunted ‘the Science’ – the opposite hypothesis is supported.

132813 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to peter charles, 4, #668 of 1791 🔗

I sensed back in April / May that the MSM narrative of the second wave was going to be difficult to shift. It’s infuriating. My concern is that they will turn any normal increase in hospitalisations and death which occur every winter into a big second wave narrative. This is where we need the likes of Carl Heneghan to continue the scrutiny of numbers, cases and definitions. It’s going to be a tough battle to shake this second wave narrative though.

132843 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to peter charles, #669 of 1791 🔗

Dan Wootton is a danger.

He doesn’t commit.

132808 Will, replying to Will, 5, #670 of 1791 🔗

Following on from the shameless intellectual hypocrisy of “Sweden did actually lock down” comes the new, new narrative that masks actually facilitate the spread of covid but that is a good thing because the covid being spread carries a lower viral load. Apparently masks are accelerating the achievement of herd immunity!?!?

Question of the day, can anyone else think of any other examples of the lockdown fanatics’ goal post shifting?

132810 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Will, 2, #671 of 1791 🔗

It’s shifted from day one.
3 weeks to flatten the curve

132818 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #672 of 1791 🔗

From that to forever to cOvId ZeRo, as successfully achieved by New Zealand.

132926 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to DRW, 2, #673 of 1791 🔗

Even wee Jimmy Crankie and the ludicrous Devi woman have gone quiet about “zero covid”. That particular lunacy seems to be the preserve of intellectual heavyweights like Burgon now so has been dropped by most people with more than three brain cells.

132994 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Will, 1, #674 of 1791 🔗

They’ve gone quiet about it but this was originally sold as a delaying measure to allievate pressure on healthcare systems. Now it’s become a permanent fixture to completely eradicate the virus, one ‘case’ is too many.

133339 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Will, #675 of 1791 🔗

It was officially dropped with the government statement for the coming year. Surpress with caveat to take credit if eliminated. Words to that effect, caveat there to bridge from covid zero high-lunacy to what amounts to Boris’s plan. Which is why you never heard about it.

Its the scot gov plan for the coming year.

132814 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Will, 7, #676 of 1791 🔗

It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grammes a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it. Parsons swallowed it easily, with the stupidity of an animal. The eyeless creature at the other table swallowed it fanatically, passionately, with a furious desire to track down, denounce, and vaporize anyone who should suggest that last week the ration had been thirty grammes. Syme, too-in some more complex way, involving doublethink, Syme swallowed it. Was he, then, alone in the possession of a memory?

133075 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Achilles, #677 of 1791 🔗

Genius.So pertinent in regard to face masks

132880 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Will, 4, #678 of 1791 🔗

I wrote about this yesterday from Ireland where Prof Luke O’Neill spouted this nonsense on the radio. It seems the proponents of this theory can advocate two opposing facts at the same time – i.e. masks are proven to prevent the spread of the virus and, at the same time, spread a bit of virus which is beneficial to herd immunity. Classic doublethink.

133017 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to godowneasy, 1, #679 of 1791 🔗

It’s all so tiring, isn’t it? People on this site often succeed in being extremely funny about the idiocy, but my goodness I wish we didn’t have to work so hard to embody sanity. What are we – 1%? 10%? of the population, tasked, apparently, with the whole task of remaining able to think.

133059 ▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Alethea, #680 of 1791 🔗

Yes, I agree. The problem that “we” have is that we are trying to use logic and reason at a time when our so-called leaders have long abandoned such niceties.

133002 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Will, 1, #681 of 1791 🔗

So don’t we need to stop wearing masks because herd immunity is BAD and is KILLING PEOPLE?!

132809 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 16, #682 of 1791 🔗

I have just heard BOJO saying that his government are putting their arms around the British people, surely this means they are putting their hands around the British people’s necks.

132812 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #683 of 1791 🔗

So much for antisocial distancing, I hope he’s muzzled, visored and gloved!

132822 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to DRW, 2, #684 of 1791 🔗

Yes, for the rest of his miserable life.

132824 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #685 of 1791 🔗

That was a sunak phrase months back on about furlough. Especially when millions of folk said your furlough is not reaching us, ah yes came the reply, but we have our arms around most of you.

132833 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #686 of 1791 🔗

Breathing gets more difficult each day!

132962 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Steeve, 1, #687 of 1791 🔗

But they can’t stop us thinking, CAN THEY?

132834 ▶▶ Richard Brooks, replying to Fingerache Philip., 14, #688 of 1791 🔗

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
C. S. Lewis

132836 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #689 of 1791 🔗

Who is BOJO? do you mean the dictator?

132964 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cecil B, 1, #690 of 1791 🔗


132856 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #691 of 1791 🔗

Problem is he appears to end up shagging everyone he puts his arm around.

132862 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #692 of 1791 🔗

I groaned when I read this, the man appears in a delusional state of the big father figure, so more instructions to be expected. You start wondering, if he is coming out with this type of terminology, he almost appears to be ‘reframing’ the situation, rationalising the damage he has done by changing his perception of the situation, its almost like seeing all the restrictions as a fatherly discipline ‘its for your own good’.

Anyway, usually my consent is required before someone puts their arm around me, otherwise considered harassment, so jog on Johnson.

132968 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Nsklent, #693 of 1791 🔗

Christ, you would be desperate if you let that man put his arms around you, Male as well as Female.

132980 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #694 of 1791 🔗

By all accounts, many ladies were 🙁

133012 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Ewan Duffy, #695 of 1791 🔗

Yes but they were probably impressed by the size of his wallet.

132864 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #696 of 1791 🔗

Or one arm round their necks and the other hand in their pockets. MW

132868 ▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #697 of 1791 🔗

well if they have not got a good grasp of facts…

132870 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to peter charles, #698 of 1791 🔗

Which most haven’t apparently. . . . MW

133165 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to peter charles, #699 of 1791 🔗

Sorry, I’ve just realised what you meant – I’m senile, after all 😉 MW

132883 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #700 of 1791 🔗

Yuck! What an utterly ghastly thought. I would not want to get within groping distance of Johnson under any circumstances.

132935 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #701 of 1791 🔗

and their pockets to remove any spare cash.

132971 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to PastImperfect, #702 of 1791 🔗

What spare cash?

133004 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Fingerache Philip., #703 of 1791 🔗

What? So he’s breaking social distancing?

133067 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #704 of 1791 🔗

The loving embrace of big brother

132819 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 8, #705 of 1791 🔗

First we had the Iraq war. Hundreds of thousands of innocent men woman and children slaughtered

Every time you see a grinning picture of Blair remind yourself that he is a serial child killer

Then the expenses scandal, where the only crime was getting caught. Never mind, they are back and stealing more than ever

Brexit, get what you voted for, don’t think so mate, please fuck off back to your hovel

Now this, the whole population locked up without trial

We are many, they are few

They treat us like this because we consent to it

There is no way this can have a happy ending

132837 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cecil B, -2, #706 of 1791 🔗

Just to piss on the pansies : a smaller minority voted for Brexit than the majority who seem to support face-mask wearing etc.

Just saying for perspective.

132849 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to RickH, 4, #707 of 1791 🔗

According to polling. According to the polls, Remain won.

132915 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to RickH, 5, #708 of 1791 🔗

Did I miss the facemask referendum?

132974 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Saved To Death, #709 of 1791 🔗

Read my post more carefully.

135643 ▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to RickH, #710 of 1791 🔗

Rick, I get what you’re saying and it’s a troubling fact, but by using the words ‘minority’ and ‘majority’ some folk seem to have read your comment as an attack on those who voted for Brexit. Hence the downvotes even though you’ve made a very salient point. I think simply stating that “the number of those who voted for Brexit (the highest democratic support for any measure in British history) is still lower than the number who support the current coronapanic regs” would be less likely to be misinterpreted.

133042 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cecil B, 1, #711 of 1791 🔗

There are more examples, too.

Quite why anyone believes anything government and the authorities say is beyond me.

132839 ▶▶ Kate, replying to PastImperfect, #713 of 1791 🔗

they will be monitoring this site

132846 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Kate, 1, #714 of 1791 🔗

Oh, I think they are! MW

132859 ▶▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #715 of 1791 🔗

i hope they are, otherwise we are just talking to ourselves

132877 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to peter charles, #716 of 1791 🔗

I think we can only hope to reach members of the public, which seems to be the case. Those paid to monitor us already know which side their bread is buttered. MW

132892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #717 of 1791 🔗

My understanding is that the paid bots, 77th Brigade, Rapid Reponse Unit etc. play to the largest and most susceptible audience. So that’s usually social media. But also MSM comments sections, the BBC and Guardian even promote them as ‘Editor’s Picks’ IIRC. Although monitoring is likely a full intervention isn’t as we’d be tough nuts to crack compared to the sheeple.

133058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DRW, #718 of 1791 🔗

A tool like CrowdTangle will be being employed to keep track of hot links posing threat to their plans. Heated debate gets picked up lights flash and the cavalry arrive.

Amazing Polly showed traffic graphs where it is clear building traffic is simply algorithmed out.

And then of course there is the narrative shaping 77 who not only troll but craft thoughts.

It’s an information war afterall.

133007 ▶▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #719 of 1791 🔗

Ooops! You sussed me out then? 🙂

132827 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #720 of 1791 🔗

Courtesy The Groan, I noticed this headline : :

“Nearly two-thirds of US young adults unaware 6m Jews killed in the Holocaust”
… which seems to about match the number of believers in the Covid myths.

Is there a message in this rough percentage re. ignorance and gullibility?

132841 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to RickH, 5, #721 of 1791 🔗

it’s my latest theory:a large part of the population are innumerate and cannot grasp facts which include numbers.

132860 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to peter charles, 1, #722 of 1791 🔗

I can believe that, what beggars belief is “scientists” and “statisticians” who are innumerate.

132863 ▶▶▶▶ peter charles, replying to zacaway, 2, #723 of 1791 🔗

yes, it’s a puzzle all right

133108 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to RickH, #724 of 1791 🔗

Not surprised… lots of young adults, not just in the US, think the world began in 1990-something or even later, just watch a couple of gameshows on TV here – plenty seem to think it’s some sort of badge of honour to have zero idea about anything before they were born. Can’t remember the stats, but a while ago there was a survey among students & millennials, and a pretty disturbing % thought that WWI was started at the battle of John F. Kennedy….

Mark Dice is good for this kind of thing – he does videos where he interviews young people, trying (usually in vain!) to find someone to question him – he did one a couple of years ago, think it may have been taken down though, where he interviewed young people in California asking if they had seen the news that Pres Obama had gone over Niagara falls in a canoe..not once ounce of skepticism between them! 🙂

This one makes me laugh:

132838 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 26, #725 of 1791 🔗

Ok ! first post here although i have been browsing comments for ages. Have come over from the now useless DT. First you could comment without joining, then you could read comments without much obstruction and now, simply, there is no worthwhile article allowing a comment and since a day or two ago is nigh on impossible to even read comments if you are, like me, just someone who wans to get the views of my fellow citizen rather than read the biased tripe from the mainly deranged journo . MSM is not worth a single penny of my vanishing cash supply – so it is lockdown sceptics from now on.

132882 ▶▶ ChrisW, replying to nickbowes, 3, #726 of 1791 🔗


132905 ▶▶ DRW, replying to nickbowes, 3, #727 of 1791 🔗

Welcome aboard Nick, great to see this community growing.

132840 Fingerache Philip., 23, #728 of 1791 🔗

I keep hearing how millions are worried about a second wave.
HELLO,those of us who can think for ourselves weren’t worried about the so-called first wave.

132854 Kate, replying to Kate, 9, #729 of 1791 🔗


This is a long lecture by Andrew Wakefield at Brandeis University. Towards the end he mentions internal memos from the pharma companies saying (with reference to an epidemic of meningitis following a vaccination campaign in Brazil, I think,) that population-wide mandatory vaccination programmes may not be a good idea for industry “because they reveal the true level of vaccine injury”

133054 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Kate, 2, #730 of 1791 🔗

I think that’s exactly what’s going to happen. The pressure to vaccinate against Covid is so great that injuries won’t be able to be covered up. The sheeple are ready to line up and I think the pharma companies are getting nervous. If even half of one percent of people are seriously harmed and millions and millions of people are vaccinated in a short time, just do the math. And these mRNA vaccines are completely different from anything ever attempted…not to mention there has never, ever been a vaccine for a coronavirus.

133106 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #731 of 1791 🔗

Does it really matter though as they’ve all been granted complete indemnity if there are any adverse reactions?

133113 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Chicot, 1, #732 of 1791 🔗

Not to pharma companies directly, but the level of public trust will be eroded.

And public trust is what most of the covid propaganda is relying on.

It is only because people on this site question and think and do not trust that we are able to see what is being done to us. The fewer that trust, the better.

133121 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Chicot, 2, #733 of 1791 🔗

I think indemnity will only help them in the short-term, if vaccines are forced on the population and result in serious side-effects they’ll be toast anyway.

Big businesses value their reputations and it’s hard to come back from killing your customers, even if you don’t get sued.

Hopefully they are smart enough to realise this and shy away from mandated vaccines for their own long-term good.

132855 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 14, #734 of 1791 🔗

Vanessa Beeley

“My pension advisor (UK) just informed me that they are inundated with calls from people asking to cash in their pensions because they can’t afford to eat.

132886 ▶▶ D B, replying to PastImperfect, 4, #735 of 1791 🔗

What an outrage in a supposedly advanced economy

133158 ▶▶ NickR, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #736 of 1791 🔗

There’s a lot of people about to lose to their jobs who will then discover that if they have savings over £16,000 then no universal benefit & it’s tapered with savings over about £6,000. What option but to raid the pension pot?

132857 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #737 of 1791 🔗

listened to Jeremy Hunt on Today R4 this morning. Came across as a calm,rational intelligent man-the implication was unlike Boris and Hancock

132929 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #738 of 1791 🔗

To think that the Conservative party preferred Johnson to Jeremy Hunt. It’s almost laughable how stupid people can be.

132983 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #739 of 1791 🔗

Here’s Jeremy Hunt back at the crucial moment in March when the government’s plans to follow the Swedish route were howled down by the likes of Jeremy Corbyn and…. Jeremy Hunt:

“J eremy Hunt, former health secretary, on Thursday led the attack against Mr Johnson, arguing that countries such as Thailand and Singapore, which have most successfully contained the coronavirus, had adopted stringent “social distancing” measures early on in the outbreak .”

UK’s chief scientific adviser defends ‘herd immunity’ strategy for coronavirus

132931 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to crimsonpirate, #740 of 1791 🔗

What did Hunt have to say about the handling of corona?

133046 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to zacaway, 1, #741 of 1791 🔗

I stand corrected…but I’d prefer him to Boris on general competence and trust.

133118 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to jhfreedom, #742 of 1791 🔗

Not a correction – I didn’t hear it! Yes, he does seems a bit more stable than either Boris or Hancock.

132942 ▶▶ DRW, replying to crimsonpirate, #743 of 1791 🔗

No fan of him. Didn’t press Twitty when he let the truth slip in his committee and was an early moonshot trumpeter

133006 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #744 of 1791 🔗

He’s a bedwetter through and through. Claimed that cases are doubling every week.

132865 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 15, #745 of 1791 🔗

Short anecdote and observation.

I attempted to take the train into London today from deepest Surrey. Cancellations and general meltdown meant that I had to give up, ironic since this was the first time in five months that I had attempted the journey.

But what was interesting was the mass non-compliance with mask wearing rules among young people. Good for them I say. A police officer blithely walked past me in the station, both of us maskless. Oh and when you buy a ticket from the machine a pop-up says You MUST wear a mask which you have to press OK to, before being able to proceed with the transaction. No mention of exemptions.

My grand day out ended with me getting a full refund for my ticket and walking back home. What a farce. Good luck UK economy…

132889 ▶▶ davews, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #746 of 1791 🔗

You only have to wear masks on enclosed parts of stations and on trains, not on open platforms. Many don their masks just before boarding.

132924 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to davews, 2, #747 of 1791 🔗

Interesting, a lot of the messages say masks are required in the station and on platforms, though most people don’t seem to bother until actually boarding.

132925 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to davews, 2, #748 of 1791 🔗

Both the copper and I were in the ticket hall…

132992 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #749 of 1791 🔗

I,too have noticed that masking is not enforced or much done on trains. Good.

132866 TFS, #750 of 1791 🔗
132869 TFS, 2, #751 of 1791 🔗

Sky News Australia: HCQ (Latest)


132878 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 20, #752 of 1791 🔗

ps I was just on a business conference as a panellist and we were asked about Covid mitigation measures. One panellist said “Wear a mask” and I quickly chimed in “They don’t work, but let’s not go there.”

All of us have a moral duty to refute the nonsense. Else our grandchildren will one day ask of us:

“Why didn’t YOU question The Madness?”

132893 ▶▶ D B, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #753 of 1791 🔗

I have a feeling (if I even bother to bring any children into this miserable world) that their children will be even more sheepish than the current majority.

132920 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to D B, 8, #754 of 1791 🔗

Friends of ours are thinking about having another child and I recall a part in the series True Detective where Matthew McConaughey’s character described “The hubris of dragging a soul into this meat grinder”.

Kind of how I feel now about humanity’s future…I wouldn’t want to inflict this mess on innocent children.

132970 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #755 of 1791 🔗

People who fell like that probably shouldn’t have kids.

133050 ▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to JohnB, #756 of 1791 🔗

Correct. Better to have kids only if you want them and will fight for them. It takes a certain optimism too.

133008 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #757 of 1791 🔗

I’ve got one child (6 years old), wasn’t sure about having another before all this but I’m absolutely not doing it now, who knows what sort of world they will have to live in.

132898 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to jhfreedom, 12, #758 of 1791 🔗

The best answer, I think, is: “they don’t seem to stop the flu. We now have 13 times more people dying of flu than Covid, all while wearing masks”.

132967 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to WhyNow, 1, #759 of 1791 🔗

I tried that with my parents – ‘but masks reduce the chance of infection’ was the response 🙁

133764 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Ewan Duffy, #760 of 1791 🔗

Curiously, certainly prior to Trump bringing in masks across the US, the WHO’s guidance previously indicated the following:

132884 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #761 of 1791 🔗

I’ve asked this a few times now but no clear answer; would catching a common cold tomorrow confer an increased chance of T-Cell cross immunity against Rona than one caught a year ago? Secondly could this be spun into a desirable thing to catch?

132954 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tom Blackburn, #762 of 1791 🔗

Hope so, my wife works in a school and half the class just had it, so we’ll be fine. Notably only 3 out of 5 in our house caught it though.

132990 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #763 of 1791 🔗

My understanding: if the “common cold” you catch happens to be a coronavirus (not an adenovirus, rhinovirus etc.), and this coronavirus is similar enough to SARS-CoV-2 – then yes there will be an increased chance of T-cell cross immunity.

133053 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tee Ell, #764 of 1791 🔗

Sneeze on me please

132897 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #765 of 1791 🔗


Football fans allowed back this Saturday. It’s a start, I suppose.

132906 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #766 of 1791 🔗

Interesting singling out of one activity in a sea of pointlessness.

Heading off a potential sizable body of opposition if the tide turns?

133001 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to RickH, 3, #767 of 1791 🔗

I love football. But at this time it is way down on my list of concerns.

132948 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #768 of 1791 🔗

Sport has always been a planned distraction for the masses, comes as no surprise to me.

132979 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, #769 of 1791 🔗

Is singing and cheering allowed?

132998 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #770 of 1791 🔗

Yes but only 1000 at a time. All masked, temperature checked, booked beforehand etc etc. Not enough for clubs to survive. Sounds a fun experience – not.

133049 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to William Hand, 1, #771 of 1791 🔗

I’m with you willhand.

Love my football but can’t stomach it in its current form.

133151 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #772 of 1791 🔗

I’ll be interested to see if 1000 fans is enough to stop the knee taking! I can’t see it happening at Bramhall Lane or Turf Moor once the crowd gets back in. I thought it was only supposed to happen last season but they’re still at it.
Always amuses me that we have Chinese & Saudi owned clubs taking the knee when the Chinese & Saudis are both enthusiastic enslavers & rascists.

132899 Fingerache Philip., 10, #773 of 1791 🔗

I wonder if those people who are queuing for a CV test and even going to H&E’s ever think that if it looks like a cold and feels like a cold and sounds like a cold then probably it is a “BLEEDIN” cold.

132903 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #774 of 1791 🔗

I also have lots of relatives in the worst affected part of Italy, Lombardy & Emilia-Romagna. I know nobody there who has died. There are going to be far more deaths caused by the lockdown. It’s national disgrace the people like Robert Peston and Sir Keir Starmer only ever question on testing. Testing is pointless and very inaccurate.

They should be demand the all Covid restrictions end with immediate effect to sav ejobs and to save lives.

“We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end.” ― George Orwell, 1984

132932 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #775 of 1791 🔗

Exactly. Peston to surviving officer front the Titanic “So, are you trying to tell me that you only had 30% of the deckchairs set up at the time you struck the iceberg?”

132953 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #776 of 1791 🔗

I cancelled my Spectator subscription because of Peston

132997 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Cecil B, 1, #777 of 1791 🔗

So did I, and Ross Clark seems to be going about the same way one day then the other the next.

132907 assoc, replying to assoc, 12, #778 of 1791 🔗

If the authorities are indeed aware that false positives are around 2.3%, and given that the percentage of people testing positive is below 1%, then surely there is the basis for a Class Action suit against HMG.
Perhaps we should ask m’learned friends

132922 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to assoc, 7, #779 of 1791 🔗

More to the point, tomorrow, Thursday’s hearing at the Commons Science and Tech Committee is devoted to Test, Track and Trace. Witnesses called include Carl Heneghan and Dido Harding. Could those who really understand the false positives etc position email the Chair, Greg Clark, or other members of the committee, with some relevant questions you would like answered? Would be especially helpful if you are a constituent of any of the committee members.

132949 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Bruno, #780 of 1791 🔗

Is this being broadcast live?

132963 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to hotrod, #781 of 1791 🔗

I’m sure someone posted a link to a live stream in yesterday’s comments

132982 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to dpj, #782 of 1791 🔗

Not sure, Richard Pinch (if you try searching on him) posted links yesterday suggesting it would be on parliamentlive.tv. But the link to the hearing:( https://committees.parliament.uk/event/1796/formal-meeting-oral-evidence-session/
doesn’t confirm if livestream. Transcripts of the evidence will be posted later, as for all the other 13 hearings, though.

133120 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to hotrod, #783 of 1791 🔗

this is a link to the meeting details

this is link to committees on parliament tv where it will be broadcast via web

BBC parliament (freeview 232) may also show it

132981 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to assoc, 1, #784 of 1791 🔗

That’s not 2.3% of the total tests done, it’s 2.3% of the 1% that are currently testing positive.

132993 ▶▶▶ getty, replying to JohnB, #785 of 1791 🔗

no, it’s 2.3% (or whatever the fpr is) of total tests done

133215 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to getty, #786 of 1791 🔗

A test has to be classed as positive though before a false positive can be considered.

As you’re claiming 2.3%, this would mean that every single test (100%) were positive.

How it works is that if you test 100,000 people, 1% which is 1,000 people would test positive. 2.3% which is 23 people in these positive tests would be false positives. So, 977 people would actually be positive.

What you’re claiming with the same scenario is that 1% of total tests e.g. 1,000 people test positive, but that 2.3% 2,300 people are false positive. This is impossible as you have more false positives than people who have tested positive, and for a test to be a false positive the person has to have had tested positive.

133011 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to JohnB, #787 of 1791 🔗

No it’s 2.3% of your sample. If in the sample there is only 1% signal it makes it even worse. The original 2.3% is gained from a sample with a 100% or 0% signal and hence you can deduce false positive and negative rates.

That’s the whole reason Bayesian theory is being quoted here a lot. The underlying signal is varying and reducing hence the relative noise in the tests goes up.

132909 Dermot McClatchey, #788 of 1791 🔗

The paper on the unusual features on the Sars-Cov-2 genome is no longer accessible via the link provided above.

132917 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #789 of 1791 🔗

Hi all

I know there’s a lot around at the moment but could you point me towards the best people and best papers/posts about false positives possibly being the majority of “cases”.

I want to produce a leaflet to promote it to the public. The first for http://www.covid19assembly.org


132941 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Lockdown Truth, #791 of 1791 🔗

I guess you’ve read the main article about that topic today? With links to data provided to government?

132918 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #792 of 1791 🔗

Boris (PMQ’s) still thinks that we need distancing and 6’s, 30’s for weddings because the infection rate is going up. They never tell us how many are tested and found negative which could be one reason testing is being messed up.

132934 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #793 of 1791 🔗

Did anyone ask him why the virus goes into hibernation at weddings?

132996 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Carrie, #794 of 1791 🔗
132921 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 50, #795 of 1791 🔗

My next door neighbour had a heart attack last night. When I arrived he was flatlining.

The first ambulance crew were brilliant, just masks & surgical gloves. They brought him back.

The second crew turned up in full biological warfare kit which they immediately stripped off because it was impossible to work on the patient and we were all pouring with sweat with the effort of keeping the patient alive.

The biological kit that the second crew were wearing had added ten minutes to their response. I know this because they were outside for that time trying to put their kit on. Ten minutes lost time…

These guys were brilliant despite the additional layer of covidbollocks that they have to endure. I would say this even if my neighbour hadn’t survived because I’m an ex-forces medic, they did everything right.

Neighbour was airlifted to hospital. He’s Ok, due for some surgery today to open up arteries or some such.

His wife has still not been allowed to see him… Although his son marched in as if he owned the place & refused to leave his side. The nurses even found a camp bed for him so a lot of them sympathise I think.

Apparently the system is one visit, of one person, for one hour, a day.

I thought that I disliked what people had done so far with the Covid fraud but when I see the man’s wife’s confusion & utter disbelief that she cannot see he potentially dying husband, well to be honest words fail me. Which is rare. What on earth have we become?

132985 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Arnie, 13, #796 of 1791 🔗

Actually brought a tear to my eye. Insane that the wife can’t see him, not logically justifiable in any way.

132988 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Arnie, 10, #797 of 1791 🔗

It’s deeply disturbing. I feel really strongly about this.

132995 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Arnie, 9, #798 of 1791 🔗

What have “we” become? Cruel bastards. At least the Gov. and all who are behind this “scam” are. But nobody escapes Karma, either in this life or the next!

133039 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Arnie, 5, #799 of 1791 🔗

The same thing has happened here. A friend of a friend is an EMT in our area and he has verified that people have died because of the time it takes to don the ridiculous PPE. And our county has had zero deaths, zero hospitalizations, and fewer than 10 active “cases” during the whole time (usually 0 – 2). It’s an abomination, and we’re still dealing with being shut out of the hospitals when loved ones are admitted. It’s getting a bit better, but still unbelievably cruel. I think we all know that family members advocating for their loved ones in hospital is absolutely necessary. I shudder to think of the neglect and worse that’s been going on. I do hope your neighbour pulls through and is home with his family very soon.

133047 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Arnie, #800 of 1791 🔗

What on earth have we become?”

Have you sen “The Night of the Living Dead”?

133154 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Arnie, 3, #801 of 1791 🔗

It feels like a microcosm of the whole sickening farce (nationally and globally) that taking 10 minutes to put on full PPE is considered a higher priority than treating a heart-attack victim as promptly as possible. If the second crew had got there first, would your neighbour have survived?

133200 ▶▶ annie, replying to Arnie, 3, #802 of 1791 🔗

It’s been like that, or worse, all through the bollox. Crime piled on crime.
The Coronaberg Trials will wade through oceans of evidence and there will be no escape for the wicked bastards who committed the crimes.

132923 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 6, #803 of 1791 🔗

Cashless society, we know it is coming. Large Sainsbury s Bishop Auckland and Darlington - two cash machines and now one at both... I like cash and hate "card" for small or spontaneous purchases, meals, pints, coffee etc. This week it emerges that the high st Caffe Nero chain is "in trouble" - shame, they don t want my £3 (in loose change) or so for their over priced mocha s and stale croissants but Greggs and Costa s have no issues for the old currency.

132991 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to nickbowes, 12, #804 of 1791 🔗

Business that stick rigidly to the COVID bullshit can go to hell!

133015 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to nickbowes, 8, #805 of 1791 🔗

On Monday, I visited a local wildlife park with my young daughter. Cards only, cash absolutely forbidden anywhere on the premises, etc etc. Until the till at the ice cream stand broke, whereupon all morals and fears of granny killing went out of the window in the desperation to buy an ice cream – cash now accepted.

Last time we visited in July/August, all staff members were masked up including those working in the open air. Not a single mask to be seen this time…

133233 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #806 of 1791 🔗

Typical discussion with cashless zealot:
“What if the system goes down?”
“Ah, that would mean they wouldn’t be able to take any payment – cash or card – it’s all linked these days you see…”

Constantly proved to not be true

133027 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to nickbowes, 8, #807 of 1791 🔗

Good if Cafe Nero go under.They refused cash payment for an overpriced toasted sandwich and tea yesterday.I just walked out

133079 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to nickbowes, 4, #808 of 1791 🔗

My nearest Gregg’s prefers cards and if you profer cash they glove up to take it and put change on counter to be picked up.No eat in. Share price lowest for years . Could the items be linked?

132937 leggy, replying to leggy, 7, #809 of 1791 🔗

More truth bombs from Alan Jones on Sky Australia. Also interesting whilste-blowing from a fairly high level Victorian civil service resignee.


133014 ▶▶ john, replying to leggy, 2, #810 of 1791 🔗

Should be compulsory viewing for all civil servants. I so wish we had media people like Alan Jones, Toby Young and Peter Hitchens in my adopted country of Canada – what we actually have is the worlds most insipid press….

133021 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to john, 1, #811 of 1791 🔗

I couldn’t agree with you more! Our media is beyond useless. I have been watching some stuff on Rebel News though.

133026 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to john, 1, #812 of 1791 🔗

And a leader even worse than Boris, thats tough!

132943 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 23, #813 of 1791 🔗

Well, one thing coming out of this is we can all see how dangerous the monolithic beliefs of the public guardians are. When they think they are right (which is all the time), then money is no object, alternative views are ridiculed and censored, people who disagree lose their job, the law is misused to create new offences, and the institutions of the State are used to enforce it.

It’s funny that Human Rights law is used to defend terrorists, illegal immigrants and foreign criminals. But not a squeak from them when the law is used to enforce the virtue of the guardians.

132965 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to WhyNow, 8, #814 of 1791 🔗

Definitely shown the Human Rights Act to be a crock of sh*t – turns out Handcock can override any rights on a whim without even a debate in Parliament.

At least Liberty seem to have (belatedly) noticed this and take issue with it, though not sure how much influence they have:

133010 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to WhyNow, 4, #815 of 1791 🔗

I suppose Human Rights are only as good as those in charge of upholding them. Sweden saw them as sacrosanct and have subsequently reaped the benefits.

132952 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 21, #816 of 1791 🔗

Feeling down about it all again today. Strange as it sounds, I had hoped that this website would be redundant by now and that everyone would have come to their senses!

132955 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to Moomin, 12, #817 of 1791 🔗

this website also depresses me as much as it delights

132978 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Moomin, 2, #818 of 1791 🔗

Yes I am having a very bad day too.

133000 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Moomin, 4, #819 of 1791 🔗

Yes, I got through ups and downs too. This is going to be a much longer haul that I think any of us thought. Just have to take each day as it comes, and try to find a little something positive each day. This one did it for me yesterday:


Once enough people are just laughing at these daft policies the wheels will eventually fall off.

133018 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Moomin, 11, #820 of 1791 🔗

Yes, I naively hoped that by May everything would be back to “normal” — how wrong I was. I kept saying all through April that they better start changing the narrative or we’d never get the genie back in the bottle. But no, they just kept doubling down and here we are facing new lockdowns and who knows what further humiliations. I try to keep myself in what I describe as “steady state” — take each day as it comes and just get through it without melting down. This forum has been a life saver; just knowing I’m not crazy and that other people don’t accept any part of this insanity helps me each and every day. We’ve got to stay strong and never, for one second, believe any of this is normal.

133034 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Moomin, 9, #821 of 1791 🔗

Same, I had thought that we’d be back to at least current Swedish-level normality by the end of June. I didn’t at all expect the insidious narrative and goalpost shifting to frog-boil us into a high-tech police state.

133189 ▶▶ Coronamoana, replying to Moomin, 3, #822 of 1791 🔗

I had hoped come September with adults returning to work and children to school, normality would slowly return. Now it seems we are going backwards, with no end in sight and everything making less and less sense. I feel my soul has been sucked out of me. I usually get up at 5; today it was gone 11 and I’ve no motivation to do anything. I can’t go on like this.

133194 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Coronamoana, 1, #823 of 1791 🔗

Don’t feel like that. They can’t take your soul.

133282 ▶▶ Mario, replying to Moomin, #824 of 1791 🔗

It keeps getting me down too; we have to keep up hope though! We’re (luckily) not PoWs, but the sentiment is relevant:


132960 Yorky Bar, replying to Yorky Bar, 2, #825 of 1791 🔗

I wrote to my (Tory) MP explaining why the false positive rate is so important (1% false positives on the moonshot 10 million tests a week means 100,000 people and their families self isolating when there is nothing wrong with them…until the following week when it’s another 100,000 people and so on). Yet the FPR seems like a state secret. Asked him to find out from Hancock what the FPR is and draw the appropriate conclusion (even 0.5% FPR means the mass testing ‘strategy’ is nonsense). He has written to Hancock attaching my email and asked him what the FPR is.

133153 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Yorky Bar, #826 of 1791 🔗

Excellent work!

133166 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Yorky Bar, -1, #827 of 1791 🔗

1% False positive doesn’t mean 100,000 people. What it means is that if 100,000 tests came back positive then 1% of those positives would be false, so in this example 1,000 tests would be false positives.

Also, it’s not 10 millions tests per week, it’s 10 million tests per day which equates to 70 million tests per week, this would mean that the entire population is tested each week for COVID-19.

133208 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnB, 2, #828 of 1791 🔗

Jon Deeks, professor of biostatistics at the University of Birmingham and leader of the Cochrane Collaboration’s covid-19 test evaluation activities, was concerned about a seeming lack of involvement of experts in the plans [Op Moonshot]. He said, “The document lacks insight into how screening works, particularly the need to balance the harms you can create through false positives against the benefits from true positives.
“The projected benefits are based on optimistic scenarios as to how well these tests would work, when they would be available to be used, and how easily they could be deployed. I’m horrified that the plans are devoid of any contribution from scientists, clinicians, and public health and testing and screening experts. These are plans from the world of management consultants and show complete ignorance of many essential basic principles of testing, public health, and screening. The authors appear totally oblivious to the harms that universal screening can create—this is frankly dangerous.
Deeks said that mass testing could throw up enormous numbers of false positive results. “Even if you have a test which is 99% specific, so only 1% of uninfected people get a false positive result, if you then test 60 million people we will be classifying a group the size of the population of Sheffield as wrongly having covid,” he said. In such a scenario, 600 000 people would be told to isolate, along with their close contacts, leading to “substantial economic harm and massive need for further testing.”

133250 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, #829 of 1791 🔗

That’s wrong, because in that scenario it means that all 60 million people have tested positive. A test has to first be positive, before it can be considered a false positive.

132966 Basics, 5, #830 of 1791 🔗

Today’s UK Column is currently live. They have just covered in some detail (15mins) the governing arrangements that are in effect and being rapidly brought in to UK. What Brietbart called a coup in a recent article.

UKC gave a run down of who/what is driving things. A really strong segment by UKC, they specifically ‘kept it real’ looking at fundamentals of government structure. Interesting stuff.

You can catch the programme on youtube from about 3pm onwards.

132976 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 16, #831 of 1791 🔗

New local lockdown in Wales – in the second largest local authority area, Rhondda Cynon Taf. I am going to make a point of leaving the area without a reasonable excuse. If I get a Fixed Penalty Notice I shall contest it and help to clog up the courts even further. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54093100

133192 ▶▶ annie, replying to Londo Mollari, 3, #832 of 1791 🔗

Three cheers for you.

132987 T. Prince, 6, #833 of 1791 🔗

OFFICIAL: You are now 100 TIMES more likely to die of non-COVID causes
What about cancer & heart patients? It’s time for a “Rule of the Sick”, not a “Rule of Six”
When will we stand up to this totalitarian insanity?

132989 Lord Rickmansworth, 2, #834 of 1791 🔗

Episode 6 is out tomorrow…but before then, catch up with ‘The Real Normal’ and subscribe, plus please leave a rating!

This week we’re in the beer gardeon of our local village boozer talking about Coronavirus and context.


Find it here! 👆

132999 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 5, #835 of 1791 🔗

We wanted to inform you on the latest impact Covid 19 is having on Dentistry and what this means for our patients.
Unfortunately, we are still a long way off being back to “normal” within Dentistry. Due to the extremely close contact between staff and patients, Covid 19 has had a huge impact on our ability to carry out all areas of dentistry.
The Dental Profession, NHS and the Scottish Government have been working in close contact to allow Dentistry to be reintroduced safely for patients and staff alike.
Unfortunately, this has been a slow process and treatment so far has been limited to emergency treatment to relieve pain. If an Aerosol Generating Procedure (AGP) had been required, this would have had to be referred into one of the Urgent Dental Care Centres as these procedures were not allowed to be carried out at Dental Practices. These procedures include any use of the dental drill, air syringe or ultrasonic scalers.
It was recently announced by the First Minister that URGENT Dental Procedures requiring an Aerosol Generating Procedure can now be carried out in NHS Practices, if Practices are ready to do so.
We now have all of our staff fitted for the appropriate Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) and are able to offer this service for URGENT NHS emergencies.
It is clear from the correspondence we have had from the Chief Dental Officer that this is NOT a return to routine care and will be reserved for patients with acute dental pain, likely to involve the start of root canal treatment or surgical extraction of teeth. We have been advised that partly due to a shortage of PPE, currently we will only be allowed to see 2 NHS emergencies requiring an AGP per practice per day which is well below what we require. We can also see a limited number of NHS emergencies that do not require an AGP.
We will still NOT be allowed to provide any routine NHS treatment such as fillings, scale and polishes, crowns, and dentures. Disappointingly we have been given no guidance on when routine NHS dentistry will return.
As a Practice we are extremely worried about the possible deterioration in our patient’s dental health and the backlog of dental treatment that is now building up since we were forced to close in March and the future restrictions that we will be working under. It is likely we will have to have a long waiting list for future routine treatment.
To try to tackle this ever-growing backlog of treatment and provide the best service we can for our patients, we have had our team appropriately trained, and sourced our own supply of PPE. This will allow us to safely provide AGP’s on a Private basis for those patients that no longer wish to wait for a full NHS service to resume. Currently this is the only way for us to be able to offer routine care including examinations (with the use of the air syringe), fillings, root treatments, crowns, scaling etc.
This service is available to ALL our patients and will not affect your NHS registration. It is simply a mechanism for us to provide the care a lot of our patients are in desperate need of. As soon as we are able to provide routine NHS care in Practice we will work as hard as we can to get through the backlog but waiting times for this may be extensive.
If you would like to discuss this option or arrange for treatment on this basis then please contact the Practice on 01292 311544 or email us at info@breezedental-troon.co.uk and we will be happy to discuss this in further detail.
At all our Practices we also offer Denplan which is a Private Dental Plan, allowing patients to spread the cost of their dental treatment with no current restrictions on what treatments we can offer. If you would like more information, please ask one of our team
We appreciate all the support we have received and your ongoing patience as we try to navigate through these difficult times.
Kind regards,

Lengthy email from my dental practice this morning; a disconcerting account of the truly dire state of NHS dentistry up here in Sturgeon land.

No hope for routine and essential NHS treatment the foreseeable future.

Secondly, an interesting conversation with one of the council gardeners ,working at the library garden-which is lovely-a welcome sight!

We exchanged reminiscences of London, both being expats, and then agreed whole heartedly on the disastrously prolonged lockdown, the panic, the mass redundancies-with many more to come-and the collapse of public health services, all driven by the endless covid derangement.

He agreed that masks are a total waste of time . How refreshing to meet such a sensible bloke.

Finally encountered batty elderly neighbour,who lives with her decidedly weird son, as I entered our courtyard: she was swathed in the black bank robber type effort.

She looked sheepish,probably having seen my expression, and confessed that she couldn’t see properly. .

133016 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 5, #836 of 1791 🔗

Awful, barbaric to withhold dental treatment in such a way.

133071 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 2, #837 of 1791 🔗

Agreed, but their hands are tied by the Holyrood Heidbangers.

There have already been instances of horrific DIY dentistry: extractions in the home with pliers!

133097 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 2, #838 of 1791 🔗

And the other thing that occurred to me was that with everyone togged up to the gunwales (both dentist and patient), doing very delicate/close-up dental procedures will be more problematic. I wouldn’t want a dentist anywhere near me who was visually restricted in such a way.

133105 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 2, #839 of 1791 🔗

This is what worries me kh; the PPE is so obtrusive and the staff are uncomfortable: the nurse at my last-paid for in desperation -visit,told me that the mask, visor and body plastic made her feel really hot and stressed.

Stress affects performance,as we all know too well.

133140 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #840 of 1791 🔗

Yep, I certainly wouldn’t want all the reconstructive work I had done a few years ago now. It was terrifying enough anyway. And, well certainly in my case, the dentist could see when I was getting stressed by the evident terror in my eyes!

133089 ▶▶ Pum100, replying to wendyk, 4, #841 of 1791 🔗

Interesting. I visited my dentist a few weeks ago (which I pay for) and casually enquired what had happened to anyone who had needed emergency treatment during the lockdown. The hygienist told me that they had been able to give painkillers to registered patients or, if they were in severe pain, refer them to an “emergency centre” (whatever that means). The emergency centre could not offer any treatment – only extractions. In her words, “many otherwise healthy teeth were lost”. I would be interested to know more detail about what did actually happen during the many months dentists (NHS and private) were closed.

133107 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Pum100, 3, #842 of 1791 🔗

So would I. My feeling is that it amounts to negligence, and the rule makers should be held responsible-some hope-not the dentists and their staff.

133317 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Pum100, #843 of 1791 🔗

I am an NHS patient and had to go to a dental hub in May for severe tooth pain. I had to take antibiotics and a lot of pain killers for 5 days before I was allowed to go. The work done was temporary and I was told I had to go to my own dentist when they opened. That was in June and I have now had a total of 6 appointments. Before May I have only ever had 2 fillings in my life (I am middle aged) and never had anything more than check ups apart from that.
I think I will probably lose this tooth in the end and I dont think I would have done if the 2nd appointment hadn’t been so long after the first.

133195 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to wendyk, #844 of 1791 🔗

General Question:
Which countries could you fly to in order to get 1st world dental treatment?
Is Czechia / Hungary etc still doing dental work as normal and is it only the UK headbangers who want to inflict pain?

133316 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nessimmersion, #845 of 1791 🔗

Ukraine is good quality, and very cheap. Problematic re quarantines at present both ways.

Also excellent for opticians – I took UK prescription, optician filled it for less than a quarter of the UK price. German frames, UV coating, etc.

I’ve heard the same re minor operations and surgery, but less direct experience.

133343 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nessimmersion, #846 of 1791 🔗

I don’t know, but I’d guess any of the 4 Visegrad nations, which stood up to EU bullying and seem to have been remarkably sensible in their response to covid mania.

133009 DRW, 7, #847 of 1791 🔗

Has this been the plan all along?

If everyone just stayed home, it’d be over in six weeks.
If everyone just social distanced, it’d be over in six weeks.
If everyone just wore masks, it’d be over in six weeks.
If everyone just used the T&T app, it’d be over in six weeks.
If everyone just used the test passport, it’d be over in six weeks.
If everyone just got the vaccine, it’d be over in six weeks.
If everyone just got the RFID implant, it’d be over in six weeks.

If so we’re currently on Stage 3, moving to 4 later this month.

133013 A. Contrarian, 1, #848 of 1791 🔗

Tom Jefferson of CEBM on Talk Radio now talking about the “rise” in cases.

133019 Victoria, 2, #849 of 1791 🔗

Skepticism is the hallmark of science ,” said Tucker Carlson last night while questioning the origin of covid virus…the closest to an honest statement by any network stooge, save a few guests on RT….The same networks that have squelched free speech and befogged viewers w fear of death…while insisting there is “The Science.”..errr “Their Science” that cannot in all narrative correctness be questioned

133024 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #850 of 1791 🔗

Here comes the creeping curfew.
R2 News 14.00
Didn’t get the name of the Borough in Wales but it’s getting lockdown Xtra, after a rise in ‘cases’, including pubs closing at 11pm. The word used was ‘curfew’.

11pm may not seem too bad but once it’s accepted it will be easier to do it in the next, bigger, place and then earlier and then that entire region and so it goes on.

The nazis started their atrocities in small ways at first, seeing what they could get away with without too much resistance. They found they could get away with almost anything so by the time of Barbarosa they stormed straight in, Special Commando up and running.

This makes me angry and I don’t even use pubs these days.

133035 ▶▶ EssieSW, replying to karenovirus, 1, #851 of 1791 🔗

It is the Rhondda Cynon Taff area

133051 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to EssieSW, 2, #852 of 1791 🔗

Rememberd too late to edit.
In Yes Prime Minister they called it
Salami Tactics.

133040 ▶▶ DRW, replying to karenovirus, 5, #853 of 1791 🔗

The Wee Krank of Scots will be doing it next. And before long, the BBC and Guardian will be telling us that Bozo the clown is ‘considering’ it…

133135 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #854 of 1791 🔗

Also becomes easier to make the curfew successively earlier in the evening…. 8pm like Australia?

133025 Edward, replying to Edward, 7, #855 of 1791 🔗

Yesterday I travelled by train to New Mills in north-west Derbyshire and went for two circular walks, with a pub visit in the middle.
The Sheffield to Manchester stopping trains are now shiny new Class 195s replacing the old Pacers. Not many passengers at off-peak time. After each stop (7 between Sheffield and New Mills) there was a sequence of automated announcements.
1. Female voice: “This is the Northern service to xxx. The next stop is yyy.”
2. Male voice: “Please be vigilant – if you see anything suspicious, report it to a member of staff or to the British Transport Police. You may also text British Transport Police on 61016.”
3. Official-sounding male voice, VERY LOUD: “For the protection of everyone, you must wear a face covering that covers your nose and mouth on board trains and at stations at all times, unless you are exempt.”
4. Me: “Fuck off.”
On no.2, I was tempted to report that there were some suspicious masked persons on the train.
On no.3, I was doing my “loose scarf thing” as a token gesture, but I managed to spin out a coffee & muffin for most of the outward journey (about 45 minutes) and similarly on return with a bottle of water and four-finger KitKat. On a few occasions the announcement was cut short – maybe the train staff were as fed up hearing it as I was.

The pub I visited was the Pride of the Peaks. Quite good, handwritten track & trace, friendly young man behind the bar, cash accepted. I asked him how business was, he said not bad, including the food side. At this time (mid-afternoon) it wasn’t busy.

If MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG from that area see this, I had to resist the temptation to ask random couples if they were MiriamW and AlanG!

133069 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Edward, #856 of 1791 🔗

New Mills, the true birthplace of the Industrial Revolution. Nice trip by the sound of it.
I do sometimes feel sorry for supermarket staff when the company advertising jingles irritate me after just a few minutes, they have to listen to them all day long, day after day.
On a positive note, no queue for the bank, no staff masked, just a couple of customers.

133156 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Edward, 3, #857 of 1791 🔗

Hi, we know the Pride of the Peaks and we’re sorry to have missed you. We go to New Mills fairly often as we have a friend who runs a cafe and we sometimes use the Co-op. We’re pretty hard to miss, to be honest, so please let us know if/when you come again! We’ve just heard from a friend that the new 195s have indeed made it to the Hope Valley Line but some Pacers are still running as they’ve had a stay of execution until the end of the year! I may be lucky and get a new one when I go for my viola lesson next week, who knows? MW

133504 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #858 of 1791 🔗

Thanks Miriam. What’s the name of your friend’s café? I may visit New Mills again to do more of the walks – there are 9 in the book I’m using. My first one started at Low Leighton and went in an anti-clockwise loop round by Ollersett and Pingot, up to the moor, past the TV mast and down to Birch Vale. After the pub visit my second walk was along the riverside path, on to Furness Vale, and along the canal to Newtown.

133534 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Edward, 1, #859 of 1791 🔗

Try Gioia Mia, run by Ali. Tell him you are friends of Alan and Miriam. If he greets you with ‘Get out!’ it means he likes you – it’s just his Palestinian sense of humour! 😉 We keep meaning to get up Lantern Pike. The Sett Valley Cafe at Birch Vale used to be a must-visit but when they re-opened they had gone the full Covi-hysteria – maybe they’ve settled down now. Their food is excellent. MW

133543 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #860 of 1791 🔗

Thanks, information noted.

133030 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 19, #861 of 1791 🔗

My experience of going unmasked is the same as the person from Suffolk in today’s update. I am treated like a long lost relative in most shops. Even masked staff wave and call out to ask how I am. Like the writer I try to exude a warm and friendly manner on the basis of “kindness turneth away anger” of however the quote goes. I smile at muzzled shoppers and engage them in conversation if I can.

Apart from everything else if you are total brazen about your non masking and act naturally you get virtually no comments or angry looks. The sheeple’s heads can’t deal with the contradiction of such a lovely and happy person being an evil spreader of death.

They may well have come to believe that sceptics are evil deranged contrarians with no sense of civic responsibility. It’s important we show them we are decent human beings but also well informed and able to balance a novel virus the impact on other illnesses, the economy and personal freedom.

133065 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 7, #862 of 1791 🔗

This is what I’ve found, by and large. Being polite and friendly works wonders,especially when they see the badge.

133112 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #863 of 1791 🔗

I’m going to tell a little story about brazeness that readers of a tender disposition may wish to avoid.

As Peter and Sally neared their 21st birthdays we decided to invest in two blow up dollies to super glue to their matching Honda CB 400s.

As ‘bikers’ Terry and I were despatched to Soho one Saturday morning to make the purchase. Being ‘normo’ North London lads visiting porno shops was not entirely new to us us but asking for Dolls WTF ?
We beat an embarrassed retreat from the first Establishment, then the second before changing tactics to brazen it out.


The other ‘mr bean’ like punters scurried away….
’20 quid mate, 30 if you want black’.

Sally was not amused.

133031 EssieSW, replying to EssieSW, 1, #864 of 1791 🔗

Does anyone have any figures for increased hospital admissions and ventilator usage in the Rhondda (about to go into local loackdown) please?

I cannot find anything apart from a BBC article saying the area is going into lockdown because of an increase in ‘cases’ and I have a friend spouting about it in a group conversation and saying Wales is going to go into a second lockdown.

I would like to be able to fire back with some real figures!

133077 ▶▶ wendy, replying to EssieSW, #865 of 1791 🔗

The whole country, or at least the urban areas, will be in local lockdown soon. Wonder when they will get sick of this!

133087 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to wendy, 1, #866 of 1791 🔗

Wonder when they will get sick of this!”

… well, they’ve not got sick of Covid, by and large – so why should it be any different? 🙂

133088 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to EssieSW, #867 of 1791 🔗

you might find something here


but it may not be right up to date

133092 ▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to maggie may, #868 of 1791 🔗

sorry, realise now that’s for England only! there should be an equivalent for Wales though

133094 ▶▶▶▶ EssieSW, replying to maggie may, #869 of 1791 🔗

Thank you maggie may, I will continue to dig around 🙂

133123 ▶▶ NickR, replying to EssieSW, 2, #870 of 1791 🔗

I put up a post yesterday showing that Wales has more covid patients in hospital than England despite having 1/18th of the population. It’s because suspected covid patients are included, the Welsh data is total bollocks.

133033 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 31, #871 of 1791 🔗

This Tweet made me laugh:


comment image
Alistair Haimes
Lady on the train panicked when I took off my mask after sitting down, but visibly relaxed when she saw I was having a coffee.

 Remember: I drink coffee to keep you safe, you drink coffee to keep me safe.

133096 ▶▶ Mike, replying to Nobody2020, #872 of 1791 🔗

The comments under that tweet are pretty good also..its clear there is a slight shift in a good number of peoples attitudes…unfortunately its smothered by the media and ‘Karens’ screeching death and doom every minute of the day!

133145 ▶▶▶ JYC, replying to Mike, 1, #873 of 1791 🔗

Please send some of the shift in attitudes up to Scotland. It’s unbelievable how much unquestioning obedience there is here.

133111 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #874 of 1791 🔗

You know what’s really going on is they think you are a raving anarchist for not wearing a mask, but sipping a coffee confirms you are conforming to the rules, so that’s alright!

This is how we appear to them (before seeing coffee)!

133036 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #875 of 1791 🔗

I laughed yesterday watching a lad of about 17 in the chippy. He took off his mask as nobody else was wearing them (staff or customers). As he waited patiently for his tea he repeatedly screwed and twisted his mask around his fingers then absent mindedly started chewing the corner of it!

133073 ▶▶ wendy, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #876 of 1791 🔗

Ugh, what ever happened to catch it, bin it!!! It is just like playing with a used hanky or tissue at a food outlet. Not nice at all.

133093 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to AngloWelshDragon, #877 of 1791 🔗

Just shows how this lunacy has got to people.

133038 Victoria, replying to Victoria, #878 of 1791 🔗

Retail businesses urged to prepare for NHS COVID-19 app

Pubs, restaurants, hairdressers, cafes and other venues across England and Wales are being urged to download QR codes to prepare for public rollout of new app, it has been announced.

The NHS COVID-19 app is currently being trialled and will launch on Thursday, September 24, in England and Wales, including QR check-in at venues

QR codes will be an important way for NHS Test and Trace in England and NHS Test, Trace, Protect in Wales to contact multiple people if coronavirus outbreaks are identified in venues

Prior to the launch, businesses across England and Wales are being urged to ensure they have NHS QR code posters visible on entry so customers who have downloaded the new NHS COVID-19 app can use their smartphones to easily check-in.

The Government is supporting businesses and venues to display the QR codes

Read the full story here

133041 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, #879 of 1791 🔗

For more information on the NHS COVID-19 app, visit covid19.nhs.uk

  • Scotland has also launched its own Protect Scotland app . The app is now available to download for free via Apple and Google stores. Supported by a dedicated Protect Scotland website, the app is an extra tool complementing existing person-to-person contact tracing which remains the main component of NHS Scotland’s Test and Protect system. For more information on the Protect Scotland app visit http://www.protect.scot

133044 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Victoria, 1, #880 of 1791 🔗

CovidPass here we come

133134 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 2, #881 of 1791 🔗


133133 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 1, #882 of 1791 🔗

So everyone needs to get their hair cut between now and then if they do not want to be traced via the QR code..

133175 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Carrie, 2, #883 of 1791 🔗

Or not have a smartphone?

133246 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Miss Owl, #884 of 1791 🔗

Yes, as yet the government have (as far as I’m aware) remained silent with regard to what happens if someone has an old-style phone or no phone at all..

133528 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #885 of 1791 🔗

Or what if the QR thing refuses to work?

133043 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 2, #886 of 1791 🔗

Scottish retail recovery still ‘painfully slow’ – SRC

The Scottish Retail Consortium (SRC) has released its Retail Sales Monitor for August, 2020.

The report revealed recovery from the impact of the pandemic were ‘painfully slow’.
David Lonsdale, Director, Scottish Retail Consortium, explained: “Six months on from the start of the pandemic and the revival of retail is proving painfully slow and protracted.
“The recovery in stores witnessed over recent months petered out in August, with Scottish retail sales now having fallen for six months in a row compared to the same period last year.

“Any hopes of a return to growth, or even better a modest claw back of lost sales from the earlier part of the pandemic, will have been thwarted by this latest data.”

Key points in the report include:

  • In August, Scottish sales decreased by 8.9% on a like-for-like basis compared with August 2019, when they had decreased by 1.0%*. This is above the 3-month average decrease of 10.6% but below the 12-month average decrease of 8.5%.
  • Total sales in Scotland decreased by 7.5% compared with August 2019, when they had decreased by 0.5%*. This was above the 3m average decline of 12.0% and the 12m average decline of 9.5%. Adjusted for deflation, the decrease was 5.9%.
  • Total Food sales increased 1.5% versus August 2019, when they had increased by 2.7%*. This is the lowest since June 2019, below the 3-month average growth of 3.1% and the 12-month average growth of 3.2%. The 3-month average was below the UK level of 5.9%, while the 12-month average was below the UK’s levels of 3.4%.
  • Total Non-Food sales decreased by 15.1% in August compared to August 2019, when they had decreased by 3.2%*. This was above the 3-month average decline of 24.6% and the 12-month ave
  • rage decline of 20.0%.

Download the full report here

133117 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, #887 of 1791 🔗


133188 ▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 1, #888 of 1791 🔗

I am totally astonished. Like, gobsmacked.

133325 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, #889 of 1791 🔗

It’s ok. There’s a plan. From the link Victoria provides:

“All eyes will now be on the Autumn period. As Coronavirus cases rise and the furloughing of staff eases off, there are real fears the industry could face even greater challenges ahead. The focus now will be on restoring confidence, working collaboratively as a sector to drive up footfall, and reducing costs as much as possible, in the hope that we’ll see a more rapid return to growth towards the end of the year.”

Behavioural nudge the cattle back to the shops. Codename Last Hope or Don’t You Dare Bugger Christmas or Shops of Doom. Strange because the focus on masks was to get those shoppers shopping wasn’t it?

133048 zacaway, 1, #890 of 1791 🔗

Interesting bit on the Spectator about false positive tests:


She claims that the government is use a false positive rate 0.4% – I though this was unknown (or undisclosed). Any idea if this is published by the government anywhere? And if the reported cases account for this?

133052 NickR, replying to NickR, 3, #891 of 1791 🔗

There may well be a 2nd wave. Only half UK care homes had any infections, the South West had very few cases, likewise East Anglia, still plenty of dry tinder.
The issue really isn’t, will there be a 2nd wave but if there is what’s an appropriate reaction & the Sweden model looks a lot better than what we did last time, keep the economy going. If vulnerable people want to shelter let them if the rest of us want to kick about let us. Don’t bank on a vaccine.
The government’s fundamental error is adopting a New Zealand style zero covid policy while maintaining a Swedenesque style lockdown, it’s doomed to failure.

133080 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 2, #892 of 1791 🔗

while maintaining a Swedenesque style lockdown”

Uh???? – See : “ Shopping in Sweden

133130 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 2, #893 of 1791 🔗

Exactly – no lockdown here!

133136 ▶▶ Will, replying to NickR, 2, #894 of 1791 🔗

Sweden hasn’t had anything vaguely approaching a lockdown.

133193 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, #895 of 1791 🔗

I think quite a lot of them worked from home and travel went right down, I think to levels similar to UK

But it was almost all voluntary

133243 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #896 of 1791 🔗

Indeed – I live in Sweden 😉

As well as people working from home, the government advised not travelling within Sweden wherever possible. So a lot of travel disappeared that way too, not only in people’s free time but also people stopped travelling for work-related meetings and conferences etc.

Some companies which remained open hired cars for their employees in order that they could avoid public transport where they might get infected.

133055 Victoria, replying to Victoria, #897 of 1791 🔗

Ministers announce new grants for businesses affected by local lockdowns
Businesses in England that are required to shut because of local interventions will now be able to claim up to £1,500 per property every three weeks.


133057 ▶▶ David, replying to Victoria, 1, #898 of 1791 🔗

Is that supposed to be an adequate amount of money to compensate for lost turnover?

133064 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to David, 1, #899 of 1791 🔗

And note the “Up to” also.

133078 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 2, #900 of 1791 🔗

Used to be called : “hush money”

133109 ▶▶ Tking, replying to Victoria, 2, #901 of 1791 🔗

Business Secretary Alok Sharma said:
No business should be punished for doing the right thing, which is why today’s package will offer additional breathing space for businesses that have had to temporarily close to control the virus.

Are they having a laugh, £1500, they are being punished, and given a good kicking as well.

133056 PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 6, #902 of 1791 🔗

URGENT Please rsspond to: Consultation on proposed authorization of unlicensed cov19 vaccines, removal of civil liability from manufacturers, suppliers, medical operatives for injury/death from unlicensed vaccines, promotion of unlicensed vaccines ; proposed legislation will alter current Human Medicine Regulations; ENDS Friday 18th Sept:

Online Consultation Response at:


Text of Consultation at:


Grateful thanks to The Conservative Woman and Vlod Barchuk’s article at:

133076 ▶▶ RickH, replying to PowerCorrupts, #903 of 1791 🔗

Just to say that a brief response on the main issues doesn’t take long. It’s pointless to waffle on, since the essence of the proposals is so entirely obvious and egregious.

… not that I expect it to make any difference. Coupled with expenditure on testing, it is now obvious that government – whatever else – is financially bound hand and foot to the biotech/pharmaceutical industries.

133104 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to PowerCorrupts, 3, #904 of 1791 🔗

Draft proposed response


The clock is ticking. Brits have got just over a week to send their responses via an online consultation form that is gathering public and vaccine industry opinions over the biggest changes to UK medicines law in over half a century. The changes are a double act that aims to on-board EU laws as part of the Brexit legislative reform while also giving Boris Johnson and his government the chance to rollout the biggest mass vaccination programme in British history. Based on, in our view, faulty premises.

To help our supporters and others with their own responses, we’ve put our draft response up on our website. We’ve made a video that we’d dearly love you to share with as many people as you can – to help get as many responses as possible from British citizens and residents. It’s very, very important that our democratic voice is heard

133061 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #905 of 1791 🔗

I now think I have an inkling of how gay people felt when they “came out”
More and more now, I have the courage to “come out” and announce that “Yes, I am a sceptic”
I don’t know about fellow sceptics experiences but I should say it’s about 70/30% in favour of lockdown; mostly the reaction is:” but you have to do what the experts tell you” but I like to think that the opinion that “dares not speak its name” is making some progress albeit very slowly.

133066 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #906 of 1791 🔗

Yes I think we are getting there, very slowly but I am a little bruised today following big argument with bil yesterday

133081 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #907 of 1791 🔗

If anyone mentions doing what the experts say I show them this picture and say
“Oh ave a look will ya look at his gormless boatrace how is that an expert? ” In my best Mickey Flanagan voice …end of conversation

133084 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to tonyspurs, #908 of 1791 🔗

Good on you.

133180 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to tonyspurs, #909 of 1791 🔗

The guy on the cover if my copy of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest looks exactly like that.

133226 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to tonyspurs, #910 of 1791 🔗

Thank you for my first laugh of the day. I must go find that brilliant caption of Diana Abbott gurneying for a second laugh.

133131 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #911 of 1791 🔗

Everyone I speak to agrees with Noel Gallagher and shares his sentiment.

133269 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Jonathan Palmer, #912 of 1791 🔗

Count me in although I’m 71.
Old git with attitude.
Go for it, Noel.

133284 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #913 of 1791 🔗

Barring the footie, of course. 🙂

133063 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 12, #914 of 1791 🔗

Haven’t seen this posted yet but if it has apologies
Alan Jones. Sky news Australia – Economist in Victoria Government resigns it’s all unraveling


133562 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #915 of 1791 🔗

Excellent news , lets hope more resignations follow from those who have been silenced

133072 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 10, #916 of 1791 🔗

Love this video of a young scottish girl calling Sturgeon a ‘Wee Witch’


An honorary member of LS?

133287 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Sarigan, #917 of 1791 🔗


133085 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #918 of 1791 🔗

Visualisation. Part of our difficulty is not knowing what pulling down a government of occupation looks like.
I notice BBC drama has been lacking over the years showing how the public might return government from the tyranical. Literature too lacks a goto here’s how to overthrow absolute howlers in power.

133280 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #919 of 1791 🔗

Part of our difficulty is not knowing what pulling down a government of occupation looks like.

There is of course the Irish model. A bit dated now, but it did the trick.

133091 Rabbit, 6, #920 of 1791 🔗

I haven’t got time to check, apologies if posted already, this is a great video, sky news Australia again.


Australians must know the truth – this virus is not a pandemic.

133098 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 1, #921 of 1791 🔗

Just heard on radio the fickle finger of Handycock has shafted Merseyside in a local lockdown as the casedemic has erupted

133102 ▶▶ DRW, replying to zacaway, 2, #922 of 1791 🔗

Second lockdown/national mockdown is coming isn’t it? Just like the BSE culling, start locally and keep growing the areas until you cover the whole country.

133472 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to zacaway, #923 of 1791 🔗

Hardly “erupted” 55 in 100,000 now means doom.

133099 paulito, 3, #924 of 1791 🔗

Spanish police held an anti-government demo in front of the parliament in Madrid at midday. They are angry that the PM, Pedro Sanchez, offered condolences on the suicide of a prisoner from Basque terrorist group ETA. At one point, a chant of “ETA, murderers”, gave way to “Government, resign”. Later the protestors threw down handcuffs beside coffins that had been placed on the ground and turned their backs on the parliament building in a symbolic rejection of a government, who they feel, has turned its back on them. I’ve linked to a video of the event. At around the 22 minute mark you can see them throwing down the handcuffs and how they turned their backs on the government. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJjpxD2V7GI

133110 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #925 of 1791 🔗
133124 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #926 of 1791 🔗

Did you watch that video? At about 2 mins 30 secs he talks about a school in England TODAY where the NHS just turned up without prior notice and vaccinated the children – the school were not expecting it..

Trying to find out more info on this – one commenter under the video says the school was in Plymouth?


133132 ▶▶▶ EssieSW, replying to Carrie, 1, #927 of 1791 🔗

I am trying to find evidence of this too and very much hoping it is a false story

133139 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to EssieSW, #928 of 1791 🔗

Maybe UsforThem know? Can someone get Simon Dolan on the case?

The guy who made the video is promoting the demo this weekend; I doubt he would just blurt out a story that he was not sure about… and it seemed like he had had contact with the mother who broke the story…

133149 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to EssieSW, 3, #929 of 1791 🔗

If the head didn’t send them packing then he should get the chop.

133274 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Rowan, 1, #930 of 1791 🔗

Yep, head is 100% responsible. SHould have called the police if necessary.

133159 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, #931 of 1791 🔗

Does he say what with? flu jabs?

133164 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, #932 of 1791 🔗

No – and he makes the valid point that in an emergency now, the parent will not be able to say what the child has been injected with.

I’m wondering about the age of the kids – young children are not deemed Gillick competent (ie able to make their own medical decisions) so in that case it must have been done under the powers Matt Hancock has given…

133266 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #933 of 1791 🔗

Schools have always been ‘in loco parentis’. But until recently, have not abused that authority.

133178 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Carrie, 4, #934 of 1791 🔗

Sounds like unmitigated bollocks to me.

Not helpful.

133220 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Carrie, #935 of 1791 🔗

Why on earth did the head allow it, for goodness sake. He, she should have turned them away and asked them to make a future appointment after parents had been consulted and consent given or withheld. I assume this was a flu vaccine.

133446 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Carrie, 1, #936 of 1791 🔗

i know that they will come in to school to give the HPV injections … my daughters were done at school .. So maybe just a misunderstanding
“In England, girls and boys aged 12 to 13 years are routinely offered the 1st HPV vaccination when they’re in school Year 8. The 2nd dose is offered 6 to 24 months after the 1st dose.”

133277 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #937 of 1791 🔗

If it is true then a complaint of assault/ actual bodily harm should be made to local police.

133114 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 24, #938 of 1791 🔗

Having to keep hearing how the CV virus has devastated employment, education, businesses, children’s futures,etc.
NO!!!!!, it was and is the continuing hysterical overreaction of leaders of countries all over the world.

133137 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #939 of 1791 🔗

It could get as irritating as hearing Gordon Brown adding “which nobody could have foreseen” to every mention of the 2008 financial crisis.

133148 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Fingerache Philip., #940 of 1791 🔗

The intentional devastation is designed to lead directly on to the Great Reset. People who aren’t employed doing something “sustainable” will have absolutely no place in this brave new green world.

133155 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #941 of 1791 🔗

Apt meme:
comment image

133115 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 14, #942 of 1791 🔗

Well done Waitrose – you chased me away with your overzealous enforcement of masks.

2 DM Headlines

  • Marks and Spencer is selling MORE on Ocado than Waitrose did
  • Waitrose will close 4 supermarkets with a loss of 124 jobs – but one store will reopen as a Tesco in 2021
133128 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, 19, #943 of 1791 🔗

Good. Sorry, but Waitrose deserve all they are getting. When they started with their free coffees, it decimated my trade until people woke up to the fact that it was crap.

133143 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Victoria, 13, #944 of 1791 🔗

My wife, who is missing a lung, and uses a false leg (so obviously exempt) felt like crap in there so has ditched them for Sainsbury’s for exactly this reason. Their signage is totally awful.We spent lots as well.

133531 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, #945 of 1791 🔗

Not surprised with this. M&S have been fairly decent throughout this madness.

133116 Jpeg, replying to Jpeg, 3, #946 of 1791 🔗

Strange U-turn from David Nabarro, who 3 days ago was encouraging the rest of the world to follow Sweden’s approach.

133126 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Jpeg, 4, #947 of 1791 🔗

He is also promoting this:


In this crisis, sharing trusted and verified information will help keep everyone safe, while misinformation can put lives in danger. If you want to make sure the content you’re sharing helps the world, sign up to receive Verified content, and always look out for the Verified tick.

Sign up today and you too can receive globalist propaganda, delivered right to your inbox!

May be worth doing just to see what tripe they send?

133142 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 1, #948 of 1791 🔗

Maybe not – they could use AI to track you to this forum and close it down…

133127 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jpeg, 4, #949 of 1791 🔗

His masters probably had a word

133262 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #950 of 1791 🔗

or administered a firm “nudge”.

133122 DRW, replying to DRW, 2, #951 of 1791 🔗

Is anyone else dreading what horrors the next 9pm Clown Show twitter diktat will spring on us? Or is it just my ballooned anxiety?

133150 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to DRW, 1, #952 of 1791 🔗

The local clown show in Wales has just meant the introduction of a second council lockdown from 6pm tomorrow evening..

133146 Steve Jones, replying to Steve Jones, 3, #953 of 1791 🔗

Dear Toby,

Just had my friend around and we discussed the situation, and I made a sort of complete mental picture of what lockdown sceptics should be trying to accomplish. Until today, I had thought it enough to simply demonstrate where the government, and everybody else, screwed up. But it’s not good enough to do that. They have a huge majority and can do, whatever they wish, even though it appears  useless to us. I thought, I’d sketch the ideas out and pass them to you for comments.

Right, first my friend and I did the detail on the False the Positive Rate, using a ship with N passengers and found that, as you know very well, the error due to false positive rate grows disproportionately when prevalence is very low, leading to gross overcorrection/lockdowns by policy makers. My friend was very sanguine about gross overcorrection because he believes lockdown does good, by reducing his personal risk, so he thinks; he can endue the costs.There is the distracting effect of ever increasing numbers of tests to consider, and this flows straight into the discussions on false positive rates – extra tests just make the picture even more confused. Is the government hiding behind a wall of confusion for reasons only they know, or is the government foolish? Hard to tell. but the false positives do give the effect of suggesting a putative second wave, at least temporarily. Is that what they are holding out for- a second wave accompanied by real deaths would justify all the government doings, at least in the eyes of the public. Government would suddenly look heroic! My friend feels the government is merely treading water until a vaccine arrives.

So then we discussed the cons of lockdown, societal disruption, NHS and health impacts, financial/fiscal impacts, problems with education systems and business as a whole and we concluded that perhaps the government weighs all the  impacts against the costs of lockdown, which my friend (and, we assume, government too) believes reduces his risk so it was worth it, notwithstanding stupidity and ineptitude everywhere. We knocked that about for a bit but it is a qualitative judgement and cannot be tackled head on. I had to let it go, but of course I do not agree – I think the cost of lockdown is too high for the benefits, esp. late in the curve as I’ll discuss.

So, next step – how to convince that the cost of lockdown is too high. Lockdown Sceptics are good at listing the costs, as I have done above. But we have to also be able to convince that they are not necessary costs. I took a novel tack on that, as I’ll show. First I introduced the idea of herd immunity at 30%. Where a proportion of the population have some sort of innate immunity. When the population who have been infected is added to the population with innate immunity reaches some natural threshold (30% is much mentioned) some sort of herd limit occurs and the cases and deaths seem to taper off suddenly and the false positives rocket due to crazy levels of testing. As you know, this is the argument of Michael Levitt, and is behind his Gompertz curve talks and papers demonstrating the paths of infection around the world. It is getting hard for government to ignore Michael Levitt, esp. since the virus has dried up so much in e.g the UK. I think we are close the the upper inflection point in Levitt’s Gompertz function in the UK at max death, to coin an ugly phrase .Now I believe this is important since if we are close to that upper  inflection point, then lockdown does even less good/more harm than when the virus was young. Now there is little left to gain, so all the costs of extra measures can be said to be unnecessary if, and only if, we are close to the ‘asymptotic point’ on Levitt’s graph.To carry this argument, it is necessary to convince that we are not at the start of a steep part of Levitt’s curve but are near the top. More science need on Levitt’s finding btw, cause and effect lacking. If we can do that, we can argue powerfully that all the expense of extra lockdown is a waste, since the virus is ending naturally – more lockdown would be totally over-egging it.

So are we at the top of Levitt’s curve or just starting? The low prevalence, few hospital admissions and very few deaths seem to suggest we are at the top. The lack of a second wave is becoming hard to ignore. I feel we are at a crunch point. If the start of autumn, return to university/school/work do not produce a strong convincing second wave (not one consisting of false positives) then perhaps wise heads might conclude it is a one wave virus,  unlike Spanish flu. With no second wave, the government will need to do its business or get off the pot. If a real strong second wave, accompanied by hospitalisation and deaths  does occur, then lockdownsceptics are finished and we must endure increased social distancing at least until the cavalry arrives in the form of a vaccine.

133170 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Jones, 7, #954 of 1791 🔗

Why assume the vaccine will change anything?

A second wave will be manufactured, if one doesn’t arrive.

133627 ▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to Julian, #955 of 1791 🔗

I tend to agree. A good vaccine turns covid19 into e.g. measels, mumps smallpox or rubella, i.e. ancient history.

133176 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Steve Jones, 8, #956 of 1791 🔗

If a real strong second wave, accompanied by hospitalisation and deaths  does occur, then lockdownsceptics are finished

Surely a real second wave just proves the government’s strategy (i.e. lockdown) doesn’t work? And if there is no second wave I would (grudgingly) let them claim victory over the virus if it meant life was allowed to return to normal.

Now, if Sweden has a big second wave, I’ll get my coat…

133623 ▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to zacaway, #957 of 1791 🔗

or they spin it to say the second wave would have bene worse without the lockdown.. you know I’m right!

133259 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Jones, 2, #958 of 1791 🔗

If a real strong second wave, accompanied by hospitalisation and deaths does occur, then lockdownsceptics are finished and we must endure increased social distancing at least until the cavalry arrives in the form of a vaccine.

Bollocks. Talk about working yourself up into a tizz.

133295 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #959 of 1791 🔗

See this latest video from Ivor Cummins, a 2 min film showing what a casedemic is: https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1293572395328995329

133300 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to JohnB, 1, #960 of 1791 🔗

Plus what does it matter that much even if there is a “second wave”. We have waves of other respiratory illnesses all the time and they cause deaths to rise in the elderly/vulnerable. The NHS coped. Greater peace comes from realising that it doesn’t matter if it happens or not – just that it’s not apocalyptic regardless.

133620 ▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to JohnB, #961 of 1791 🔗

get back to me on that when a strong secondwave does, or does nor occur.

133643 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Steve Jones, 1, #962 of 1791 🔗

FWIW, I am beginning to think that now there are simply no new cases of symptomatic illness in the UK at all . It’s an assertion that is hard to prove or disprove.The handful of hospital in-patients will have likely received a false positive test result on admission or in the preceding few days or weeks. Ten patients a day now dying with a Covid label.. Of which 9 (point something) will be of advanced age with a median of two co-morbidities.
The German pathologist recently said that all his autopsies of ‘Covid’ patients revealed another cause of death.
The Herd Immunity Threshold is probably much lower than 30%. Though that is almost irrelevant now because I think probably 90% of the population have been exposed. And all new ‘infections’ are entirely harmless, due to the human immune system deleting the harmful part of the genomic sequence.
So the HIT was reached months ago.
On HIT:-
The HIT is or was 10-20%. It was reached around June, I believe.

I believe (in the UK), this no longer exists as a clinically symptomatic illness.
And, as such, doesn’t deserve the ‘deadly’ tag.
(And there is therefore no justification for any ‘mitigation’ strategies such as lockdowns and masks. Nor would there be any need for a vaccine…..)

Just my opinion..

133147 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 3, #963 of 1791 🔗

comment image

Our future health service: the Carry On team on hand to stop the spread and save lives, and test, test, test.

133169 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 1, #964 of 1791 🔗

A thought; perhaps Toby and colleagues could do a ‘Carry On Testing’ production.

A farce for our times.

133163 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 8, #965 of 1791 🔗

Hi, check this out from one of our local MPs:


I think he might be one of the first MPs to actually so openly question the narrative. It’s fantastic news!

133171 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Moomin, 1, #966 of 1791 🔗

I’m fortunate to live in one of the few northern towns not targeted for local lockdown but have been very disappointed with the city mayors, MPs etc of other towns that have towed the Westminster line.

133174 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Moomin, 2, #967 of 1791 🔗

Wow, an outbreak of common sense and proportionality from a member of the house. I nearly fell off my chair.

133196 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to leggy, 1, #968 of 1791 🔗

Yeah, me too and like Liam says it’s definitely a start. Since he mentions the flu I wonder if he read today’s LS post?! I’ve sent him an email to thank him for speaking out and I’ll post a link on my FB page. I posted earlier about how down I was feeling about it all today but this has cheered me up.

133181 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Moomin, 1, #969 of 1791 🔗

It’s a start.

133190 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Moomin, 1, #970 of 1791 🔗

Maybe there should be a section on the site for MPs with known sceptical tendencies. There are a few others.

133203 ▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Julian, 3, #971 of 1791 🔗

I have written to my MP and asked in no uncertain terms as to why more MPs are not speaking out against these increasing restrictions and controls in our lives and why there is not more scrutiny and debate over what the Government is doing. And indeed why is legislation being passed in such a sinister and underhand way? What have they to hide? What has happened to democracy? Why are the opinions of well respected Scientists and Doctors being and ignored and suppressed? I have also reminded him that we elected the Government and MPs and what they are doing right now to lives, health and jobs (i.e. destroying them) will not be forgotten when we vote and frankly all credibility has been lost. No doubt it will be ignored and get binned.

133168 PD, replying to PD, 7, #972 of 1791 🔗

I sent this to my MP.
Needless to say – no response!

I am writing as an increasingly concerned constituent about the current measures being introduced to prevent the spread of Covid-19.
I am worried that the absence of parliamentary scrutiny is allowing the government to cement into law invasive powers that interfere with the private realm.
The justification for these measures is flimsy at best. The PCR tests used in Pillar 2 settings have been found to give false positive results in approximately 2% of tests performed.
This is unacceptable as a positive result condemns otherwise fit and well and asymptomatic people to a form of house arrest for two weeks.
Can you please use your influence and speak with the Secretary of State for Health to ascertain the exact percentage of false positives that these tests throw up? Can you also recommend that any instance of a positive case found in Pillar 2 PCR testing is swiftly followed up with a second test to confirm that the result is accurate?
This would save the unnecessary hardship of a two week quarantine for the majority of current asymptomatic ‘cases’.
I thank you in advance for your attendance to this matter.

133173 ▶▶ annie, replying to PD, 1, #973 of 1791 🔗

Talk about casting pearls before swine!

133191 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to PD, #974 of 1791 🔗

Just on the 2% false positive, every test done will give false positives, and actually 2% it is very good as it is very low.

Compare it to an ECG (Electrocardiogram) test. I had an ECG about 15 years ago and that gave a false positive When I looked into it for my age and fitness there would be around 20% false positive for ECG’s, in some studies I have read the false positives were 80%.

133172 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 6, #975 of 1791 🔗

Ivor Cummins answering junior doctor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKKIr425b40

133378 ▶▶ mjr, replying to p02099003, 1, #976 of 1791 🔗

junior doctor is the self publicist Dominic Pimenta- the one who got all the publicity for his new book by making the big deal about resigning over the Dominic Cummings trip to Durham.
strange word coincidence — two Dominics, two Cummin(g)s leaving that famous Spanish Pepper owner, Ivor Pimento

133177 Sceptic#1, replying to Sceptic#1, 9, #977 of 1791 🔗

An entire year group (year 9) and their siblings have been sent home to self isolate for two weeks today because 1 relative of 1 pupil tested positive for covid 19.
What new hell is this? The rate of covid infection in Torridge is one of the lowest in the UK and Bideford college is a large comprehensive in the area. To send 260 kids home from school with no online learning provision is neglect. Help us all, the beginning of the end for education and our children (and for those of us that have to work but now will need to supervise our children). Covid doesn’t make kids (or most healthy adults) unwell so why on earth are they acting like this? HELP.

133204 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Sceptic#1, 1, #978 of 1791 🔗


Try writing to our wonderful MP. Cox won’t reply to me any more.

This is insanity, and the more people who lay it on the line to him the better.

133256 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sceptic#1, 2, #979 of 1791 🔗

They’re acting like this because they’re frightened. Or because they’re bastards.

If my kids were still of school age, I’d be organising a home-schooling support group like crazy.

133359 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to JohnB, 1, #980 of 1791 🔗

Same here. I was talking to my daughter who will be a teacher next year and said if I had young kids I’d gather a group of like-minded parents and hire our own teacher. This was long before I’d ever read anything in the MSM about “learning pods.” I think this Covid insanity will change education for the better, but there will be a ton of fallout in the meantime.

133488 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Sceptic#1, #981 of 1791 🔗

It’s clear that much of officialdom is acting on the basis that “zero Covid” is now policy. As we know that’s unachievable, the type of disruption you describe is likely to continue indefinitely.

133213 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to wendyk, 2, #983 of 1791 🔗

The problem is the question:

they supported a “9 pm curfew on pubs and bars to help reduce COVID-19 cases”

plus people have been tricked into believing cases = deaths by the MSM

133184 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 13, #984 of 1791 🔗

I wonder if the people who supported, and still support, “lockdown” will ever come to repent their views? And will the people who implemented them ever face a criminal trial? This just in from The Telegraph live feed – a truly disgusting effect of government policy:

Rate of stillbirths rised dramatically during lockdown

[T]he global rate of stillbirths has risen significantly since lockdowns were introduced to combat the coronavirus pandemic, a raft of studies has shown.

Data from St. George’s Hospital in London shows a four-fold increase in stillbirths between February and June when compared to October 2019 to January this year. In nine Nepalese hospitals, 21 per 1,000 babies were stillborn in May, a 50 per cent increase on the rates seen in March when a nationwide lockdown was introduced.

Experts say this alarming trend is not caused by Covid-19, but by disruptions to global healthcare systems brought about by lockdowns.

“What we’ve done is cause an unintended spike in stillbirth while trying to protect [pregnant women] from Covid-19,” says Jane Warland, a specialist in midwifery at the University of South Australia in Adelaide.

At the outset of the pandemic, face-to-face consultations were cancelled by maternity health providers, meaning health-care workers couldn’t take someone’s blood pressure, listen to their baby’s heartbeat or do an ultrasound remotely.

133199 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Tenchy, 9, #985 of 1791 🔗

Makes me feel physically sick. And then read that Streeter MP virtue-signalling response in today’s post and I get very angry.

133239 ▶▶ Evelyn, replying to Tenchy, 1, #986 of 1791 🔗

That is so sad.

133353 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tenchy, #987 of 1791 🔗

Yes, a friend’s DIL had “remote” visits with her midwife and when she went into labour and was in hospital her blood pressure skyrocketed. She ended up on medication after the birth and I’m guessing she had undiagnosed pre-eclampsia. In “staying safe” they could have killed this young woman. The most frustrating thing is that the family doesn’t even realize it. It’s no surprise that stillbirths are up; I’d guess maternal deaths are also up.

133186 JulieR, replying to JulieR, 19, #988 of 1791 🔗

Lockdowns, grassing on neighbors, no meeting in groups, curfews – is that Russia or Britain?

It seems to me that there are more freedoms in Russia than in Britain these days. I would never have thought it would be like this.

I have relatives in Russia.

133210 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to JulieR, 7, #989 of 1791 🔗

I find Russia Today (rt.com) a more trustworthy source of news in this country than the propaganda arm of the government, aka BBC News.

133187 George Marchaux, replying to George Marchaux, #990 of 1791 🔗

Is John Campbell worth watching?

Keep seeing his videos pop up, seems to cover COVID a lot.


133206 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to George Marchaux, 1, #991 of 1791 🔗

He seems to enforce the government line by explaining the policies, I have never seen a video where he takes a sceptical position (but possibly he has since I watched last). Not sure if he is sponsored by the government somehow – he is a safe WHO approved option recommended by YouTube. Not a single video censored or removed.

133425 ▶▶ Klein, replying to George Marchaux, #992 of 1791 🔗

He does some good stuff on vitamin d and your immune system.
He actually said the other week that the lack of nationwide studies on vitamin d in regards to covid and respiratory viruses is now bordering on negligence.
He also did a video recently on how the IFR is dropping.
I find him hit and miss, I would watch if the video title is half decent

133197 RickH, replying to RickH, 9, #993 of 1791 🔗

I depend upon a regular supply of medical appliances.

For the last two days (after several months of no problem at all), the supplier is impossible to reach – with a ‘phone message giving all the Covid bullshit about ‘this difficult time’ which isn’t difficult at all, given the lack of any perceptible reason.

They also mention the difficulty in getting through to doctors’ surgeries at present.

Anther sign of massive mismanagement for which Handoncock should be hung out to dry.

133201 ▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, 11, #994 of 1791 🔗

You can omit the last three words.

133198 Thumb, 2, #995 of 1791 🔗

There’s been a lot of stuff about false positives, especially in Pillar 2 testing recently.

The government Covid data indicates a rise in Covid hospital admissions, but it appears that these data include individuals who have been admitted for something non-Covid related but who have had a positive test. Presumably, many of these will also be false positives.

Does anyone know if there is any data out there about the number of hospital admissions for Covid, as opposed to with Covid?

133205 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #996 of 1791 🔗

Give me strength!!! Almost 4000 positive tests today. Curfews, “lockdowns”, school closures and the rest are not long off.

133211 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Tenchy, 1, #997 of 1791 🔗

I suspect short of a full lockdown again in 2 weeks time like Peston et al are spreading around will be the curfew that has been floated and polled on, they see they can do it, so they will. Every single new measure drags us further, and although we see clear as day, it’s simply a minor sacrifice for the greater good, irrespective of reasoning for the majority.

133216 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Tenchy, #998 of 1791 🔗

500 more than this time last week.

133219 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Tenchy, #999 of 1791 🔗

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it is lockdown again in England from Monday. Justified by positive tests plus testing issues

133221 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1000 of 1791 🔗

How long before we get the “Second lockdown considered” feelers pushed through MSM?

133224 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, 2, #1001 of 1791 🔗

I’ll give it a week, Eveything is going by the usually pattern, sow the seeds 2-3 weeks before hand to grow the fear, then it’s implement it.

133232 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to JohnB, 1, #1002 of 1791 🔗

Well they’ve already floated curfews.

133285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to DRW, #1003 of 1791 🔗

😕 If anything we ought to have the opposite of curfews… just as the initial lockdown did, they will push people into spending more time together indoors! Some families/housemates can pass each other like ships in the night if they’re all allowed to live freely. Not that I agree with any enforced anti-social distancing mind.

133234 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 1, #1004 of 1791 🔗

Isn’t Peston already saying this?

133230 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Charlie Blue, #1005 of 1791 🔗

Like the lockdown that France and Spain have????

They are learning to live with the virus.

133225 ▶▶ EssieSW, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1006 of 1791 🔗

Just pondering if all the news about a shortage of tests could be preempting the possiblity that there will be fewer postitive cases soon because the virus could be levelling off.

So if case numbers do go down, ‘they’ can just say it is because of a shortage of tests rather than admit there are less cases?

133229 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to EssieSW, 3, #1007 of 1791 🔗

Shortage of tests will probably be used to lockdown more. They’ll come out with the “we can’t be sure how widespread it is at the mo, so to protect you all we’re putting in place lockdown conditions again until there’s enough testing to ensure everyone is safe”.

133231 ▶▶▶▶ EssieSW, replying to JohnB, 3, #1008 of 1791 🔗

That’s a point.

Time to scream into a pillow.

133245 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1009 of 1791 🔗

I think they will try a second one because a lot of furloughed people will be fired come October.

And you don’t want reality settling in. Problem is a lot of people are business owners and self employed. And their help was sporadic.

133270 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to mhcp, 1, #1010 of 1791 🔗

Exactly – plus in retail / hospitality there are Q4 rents to be paid at the end of this month – how many of those businesses are looking at the current trading and future measures and are just going to decide to close down rather than stagger on and lose more money.

133557 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1011 of 1791 🔗

Why has Johnson made a point of saying that a new lockdown would be disastrous? We all know that. It can only mean that it’s at least being considered. More likely, it’s to soften up the population for further restrictive measures which will be stated as being necessary to avoid lockdown. These could include mandatory masks everywhere, but I think it’s more likely to be further restrictions on “leisure” activities such as pub visits. Essentially they don’t want people getting together except for those whose work can’t be done at home. The flaw is that most people’s leisure is other people’s work. So the cultural and hospitality sectors really need to start getting militant if they don’t want their livelihoods to disappear.

133207 annie, 15, #1012 of 1791 🔗

First day at work today under the Welsh Gob Nappy Rule.
Boss happy for me to work barefaced while wearing lanyards. Punters also happy after being told I was exempt.
But punters all nappied even though I told them it wasn’t my job to police it. And when there was nobody looking. They really don’t seem to MIND.
And yet, when you talk to them (and a weird, phantom face appears under the cloth mask – creepy ) they are all perfectly nice people. I don’t get it.
Do we here on this site have a stronger sense of personal identity?
I did come near to vomiting when somebody turned up wearing a nappy with the design of the Welsh flag.
It’s been a sunny, calm, gorgeous, beautiful day. Vile Hitler bastards can’t alter that.

133209 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 4, #1013 of 1791 🔗

Always look forward to these updated graphs from Christopher, every week becoming more and more 99.9999% certain that the trends they showed 15 weeks ago are absolutely correct. The fact that now deaths are increasing above the average yet covid as a proportion is now only 1% is something which needs to be highlighted to the media, maybe that can give them something to think about?


133273 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1014 of 1791 🔗

Thanks for this very useful

133212 annie, replying to annie, 15, #1015 of 1791 🔗

On going past Sainsbury’s in Tenby. Not going in there – I’d as soon walk through the gates of hell:

Sainsbury’s Hitlers enter fully
Into the scheme of ‘harass and bully’.
Sainsbury’s hates the human face.
Zombies only allowed in this place.
Sainsbury’s hates to see you with friends:
One at a time, or their tolerance ends.
Sainsbury’s gauleiters make you stew
For hours in a shambling, grovelling queue.
Human friends, for God’s sake drop
Your habit of using this foul zombie shop.

133503 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to annie, 2, #1016 of 1791 🔗

At the Sainsbury I use (during the time they set aside for the old and decrepit) they just wave me in and I walk briskly past the hand “sanitizer” wiping the gunge off the handles of the trolley. Never had any difficulties and it is good to smile at everyone. Always very pleasant at the human checkouts that I use to help the clerks who might really need the jobs.

133608 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to PastImperfect, #1017 of 1791 🔗

Yeah, I just don’t know what’s got into our local branch, I felt literally sick. Come, kindly bombs.

133214 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1018 of 1791 🔗

And just to add to the doom and gloom (The Telegraph live feed):

World may not return to pre-coronavirus normality until 2022, WHO warns

The world might not return to pre-coronavirus normality until at least 2022, according to the World Health Organization.

“We’re looking at 2022 at least before enough people start getting the vaccine to build immunity”, said chief science officer Dr Soumya Swaminathan.

Dr Swaminathan added that at least 60 to 70 per cent of the population must have received the vaccination for it to become effective.

Until then people will need to continue mitigation efforts, such as social distancing and wearing face coverings.

The notion was echoed by Bill Gates earlier this week, who said that even in the “very best case” where vaccines are developed and distributed quickly, the world would not return to pre-pandemic levels for at least two years.

THE vaccine? What vaccine is that, then?

133218 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1019 of 1791 🔗

Funny how there’s no mention of Wuhan’s massive pool party though.

133223 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1020 of 1791 🔗

who are a marxist organisation ,ignore them they are in China pocket ,there spokesman isn’t even a doctor though he calls himself 1

133228 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Nic, 4, #1021 of 1791 🔗

There is nothing marxist in this. Just say it as it is: insane control freaks

133235 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tenchy, 8, #1022 of 1791 🔗

Dr Swaminathan added that at least 60 to 70 per cent of the population must have received the vaccination for it to become effective.

The virus is all but gone. The vaccine is unnecessary but WHO continues bleating about it as they heavily invested in a pandemic with a vaccine. Get rid of WHO, they do not add any value.

Populations must improve their immune systems

133265 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1023 of 1791 🔗

I think I’m going to have a breakdown.

133271 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1024 of 1791 🔗

Right, because it is impossible to build immunity to a mild disease (to anyone under 65) without a non-existent vaccine. They’ll have to change the national curriculum, as my son’s just learnt about “herd immunity” in school. (I’m sure they probably will actually).

133315 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #1025 of 1791 🔗

Hopefully Bill and Melinda will be otherwise occupied for a bit, with Bill’s father having apparently just died…

133217 Nic, replying to Nic, 14, #1026 of 1791 🔗

I’m in hospitality ,the government is again threatening to close us down.
Sick to death of it how dare they take my living away from me.
Was in weatherspoons in aylesbury today most people were over 40 and enjoying a pint and a bite to eat
Across the road on aylesbury square were a large group of piss heads swearing and carrying on .no police or council officials challenged them.
Yet they want to close pubs for fs .

133237 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nic, 4, #1027 of 1791 🔗

Agree, how dare they

133222 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1028 of 1791 🔗

So under control since May?

133267 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1029 of 1791 🔗

And that’s why they don’t report % positive cases – what would people have to panic about then? Best to make it looks like a second wave is brewing

133432 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to zacaway, #1030 of 1791 🔗

This really infuriates me. It seems impossible to find % positive cases or at least cases per number of tests anywhere. Everywhere seems to show the utterly ridiculous graph of “new cases” which gives the impression of us being almost back to where we were at the peak of the epidemic. It is of course completely meaningless since we are doing way more tests now.

133227 MDH, replying to MDH, 17, #1031 of 1791 🔗

I’ve just been for my second post-lockdown haircut. I’ve had the same barber for more than a decade, at a venerable (and not cheap) central London location. My cut back in July was a joy. After 20 weeks I looked like a hermit and I was more than willing to put up with the crime-scene plastic sheeting and acres of disposable gloves, face shields, etc.

Of course, in between times, the mask mandate has come into force in hairdressers. No worries, I thought, I’ll flash an exemption card and all will be well. It was and it wasn’t…

Because I was unmasked, my barber had to wear a face mask as well as a visor. I was the only customer on the cutting floor . By the end of the 25-minute cut he was audibly uncomfortable. And I felt bloody awkward. His colleauge, who I know from my previous visit is quite nervous about so much as getting on the Tube, was obviously not impressed by my naked insistence on remaining bare-faced. By the time I left, the atmosphere was decidedly frosty.

I now feel that if I am to continue using the shop (and I really want to after such a long time) I’ll have to wear a mask out of consideration for my barber and the other customers (if there are any). This will cause me proper distress. I get panic attacks and find it hard to breathe. Furthermore, it’s not a cheap haircut, and this time, the plastic pantomime, in place of a proper gown and a hot towel, etc, really began to rankle. As a customer, I feel my comfort should come first.

This is the pure poison of the “wear a mask for others” bollocks. It’s genius, really. I reckon this palava could go on for a couple of years, by which time there’ll be little or nothing of worth left. Just about the only way to protest is through your wallet, but that harms businesses and leaves the government and its mendacious advisers unscathed.

133238 ▶▶ Mark, replying to MDH, 20, #1032 of 1791 🔗

You are absolutely correct about the poison of making mask non-compliers feel like they are the ones causing problems.

The only solution, though, is to find another hairdresser who is willing to break the rules. In the end, if this goes on long enough, a black economy of dissenting suppliers of all kinds of services will arise.

133244 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Mark, 9, #1033 of 1791 🔗

In fairness, I could call the chap direct and go to his home for a cut. In fact, that’s what I’ll probably do. I’d rather pay him the full whack than go through that rigmarole. Also, the money would go straight to supporting him and his family (three kids under 12).

133268 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to MDH, 8, #1034 of 1791 🔗

Absolutely – if he’s willing to do that, he should get the reward of the full payment, and you get the reward of no coronabollocks.

And if the government loses tax revenue, well that seems only fair as well, given their culpability.

133341 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to MDH, 5, #1035 of 1791 🔗

I was going to suggest that — either go to him privately or have him come to you. Mobile services are growing. I use box dye now for my colour — cheaper and just as good — but had my hair cut in the county where I’ve relocated and she didn’t make me wear a mask. If she’s changed her mind since, my hairdresser in the city will see me at his house. We all just need to find word arounds!

133469 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1036 of 1791 🔗

‘Clairol root touch-up’ is a great alternative to having to dye all your hair every month – cheap too 🙂

133279 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 8, #1037 of 1791 🔗

Exactly, on both counts.

I cut my own hair a few weeks ago. Bizarrely, I’ve had more compliments than when I spend £55 at the local salon! Thinking of diversifying!

133564 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #1038 of 1791 🔗

I had the same experience as well. Had more compliments on the DIY brutal hacking of my own hair rather than a professionally cut one.

Have decided to boycott hairdressers from then on. Mr Bart and I bought a pair of haircutting scissors and we’re looking forward to saving money.

133305 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Mark, 4, #1039 of 1791 🔗

In medical settings I wear one to expedite the visit out of sheer pragmatism.

But everywhere else I claim Exemption.

Wife cuts my hair. And getting better at it.

133320 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to jhfreedom, 7, #1040 of 1791 🔗

I was favourably surprised when I went for an (NHS) chest xray on Monday. Receptionist waved a mask at me, I said “Can’t” and she just said “that’s fine, we just have to ask”.

133240 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to MDH, 9, #1041 of 1791 🔗

I was talking to my brother, a teacher, last night. He was saying the mask is for others. I was telling him the mask is you sacrifice your health for others. And there is more risk to you.

Like helping someone with their heavy bags by leaning out of a window. You damage your spine to save them slight discomfort.

133242 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to MDH, 15, #1042 of 1791 🔗

You’re right – the guilt trip/virtue signalling of the “wear a mask for others” message is diabolically, fiendishly clever. And very, very effective on what seems like the vast majority of the population.

As for haircuts, when masks were made mandatory on public transport, that made the decision for me and I stopped travelling to the centre of Manchester for my monthly haircut. Luckily for me, my next door neighbour is a mobile hairdresser, so I now go to her. It has saved me a fortune. I can see a time when there will be a black market for those businesses who ignore all this nonsense – I think it’s already growing, but hasn’t been formalised as yet.

133257 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Quernus, 12, #1043 of 1791 🔗

The whole “virtue signalling” thing has been almost more effective than fear in getting people to enthusiastically comply, not just with masks but with pretty much everything.

Though it’s hard to separate the two – if someone is genuinely fearful (almost certainly as a result of media hysteria rather than real vulnerability) it could provoke them to be indignantly and self-righteously judgmental to people who they perceive are putting them or others at risk.

133336 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Quernus, 4, #1044 of 1791 🔗

‘Fiendish’ is the word.

133301 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to MDH, 5, #1045 of 1791 🔗

Poke dozens holes in the mask with a spike of some sort. Make it a MINO. Mask In Name Only.

133535 ▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to jhfreedom, #1046 of 1791 🔗

Haha… love that

133236 NickR, replying to NickR, 24, #1047 of 1791 🔗

I see flu is killing 13 X more people than covid. I’m bloody impressed with these masks, they must let the flu virus through but batter the coronavirus to death. Who would have thought a piece of cloth was that smart! It’s amazing.

133251 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to NickR, 12, #1048 of 1791 🔗

The fact that the prevalence of other infectious respiratory diseases (flu, colds) appears to be completely unchanged by the introduction of masks, is to my mind one of the biggest pieces of evidence against them being any use!

There are so many other factors involved with Covid case + death numbers that mask advocates can always say “but the numbers would be worse without masks”, but other respiratory diseases followed the same flat trajectory through spring/summer as last year.

133241 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 12, #1049 of 1791 🔗

At today’s Parliamentary Select Committee, Al Johnson just said:

“What we need to do is get back to a world where everybody meeting together to sing and perform in a traditional way has a ticket to ride, the knowledge you are not infectious, a green light on your head.”

So that would be his moonshine-driven immunity passport then, though I didn’t realise you would have to wear a traffic light on your head to demonstrate your eligibility to take part in society. This insanity needs to be stopped.

133255 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to godowneasy, 4, #1050 of 1791 🔗

I think you mean moonshit-driven

133264 ▶▶ Richard, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1051 of 1791 🔗

Absolutely – every act of resistance no matter how small counts

133247 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 1, #1052 of 1791 🔗

The Pennsylvania ruling is really encouraging news (although am I correct that it’s just one county, not the whole state?). It really highlights how literally unconstitutional so much of government response has been.

As the case argued, the burden of proof should be on the decision-makers to prove they are necessary, not on the public to prove they’re unnecessary. Arguably this could be overruled for short-term measures in an emergency situation (I don’t think the pandemic was ever an emergency serious enough to demand that, but it’s understandable that many people though it was going that way back in March) but indefinite “rule by fiat” and continual suspension of liberties and business in this way, without any need for proof or evidence other than stating the need to “keep the virus under control”, should not be possible in a democratic state – and, if my reading of the article on the Pennsylvania court case is correct, this isn’t just a matter of argument, it is basically against the US Constitution.

I know the UK doesn’t have a constitution in the same way as the US but are there any similar laws?

133253 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Drawde927, #1053 of 1791 🔗

Sorry, only now coming on line – what ruling?

133323 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Drawde927, 5, #1055 of 1791 🔗

I think the legal challenge to the lockdown is mainly based on the use of the 1984 Public Health Act, which is what has been used to implement all the restrictions. According to Lord Sumption, the act was designed to deal with specific ill people and places, not with the whole of society or general classes of person or place. The convention is that if basic liberties are taken away by a law, the law must be clearly designed to do that, and this one wasn’t. Judicial review due at the end of the month.

133249 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, #1056 of 1791 🔗

My apologies this is more a question than a lockdown observation, our younger daughter who lives in Cardiff is coming to see us (N Devon) in 2 weeks time. The buzz on the streets in S Wales is that Newport is about to be locked down. As the M4 and the main train line goes through Newport does anyone know how a local lock down affects major transport links running through that lockdown area? Thanks

133252 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1057 of 1791 🔗

You can go through as long as you don’t get out there, I believe.

133310 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to thedarkhorse, #1058 of 1791 🔗

Thank you

133313 ▶▶▶ DaveB, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #1059 of 1791 🔗

I think that has always been good advice where Newport is concerned.

133370 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DaveB, #1060 of 1791 🔗

I’d just like to say my company has an office in Newport, that I’ve several friends living there, and previously used to visit regularly.

and you’re quite right Dave …

133254 Bruno, replying to Bruno, 7, #1061 of 1791 🔗

Feeling pissed off and powerless? Join the club.
You might like to email those below to ask the questions you would like answered by the witnesses called to the (14th?) session tomorrow, 17 Sept, of the Commons Committee on Science & Technology, starting 2.30 p.m., which is d evoted to Test, Track and Trace. They have called as witnesses Carl Heneghan and Dido Harding, among others. Someone here posted, within the last 10 days, an excellent list of questions on false positive rates, differences in PCR cycle numbers between Pillar 1 (NHS) & Pillar 2 (Deloittes etc) testing facilities, and other factual items. If anyone kept the list, it would be handy to repost it.

If any of these are your own MP, be sure to include your address so they know you’re one of their constituents. (They don’t have to do anything if you aren’t, although some pass it on).

These are the members of the Commons Science and Technology Committee:

Chair – Rt Hon Greg Clark MP. Conservative. Tunbridge Wells.

133263 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Bruno, 5, #1062 of 1791 🔗

Dawn Butler! She of “babies are born without a sex”. Clearly any kind of scientific aptitude is not a requirement for membership of this committee.

133352 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 2, #1063 of 1791 🔗

Dawn Butler ……. Diane Abbot but without the charisma

133431 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Bruno, 1, #1064 of 1791 🔗

We need more posts that are as helpful as this one. Thank You.

133644 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to PastImperfect, #1065 of 1791 🔗

My pleasure, feeling bitter this evening but let’s not get mad, get even!

133260 Richard, 16, #1066 of 1791 🔗

Afternoon all – just wanted to share excellent experience at barbers today that gave me hope ! Just moved into this town, slightly nervous as no mask but the client in the chair wasn’t wearing one and then when she left I went in – quick temperature check and then hairdresser said this Covid stuff is all bollocks isn’t it !! Then proceeded to tell me about all the visitors from all over the country whose hit she had cut in the last few months so if was still around then she should have caught it. Also clearly knew a lot of other hairdressers and as with supermarket staff – if was that deadly why weren’t they dropping in droves. Hadn’t heard about the Simon Dolan case and the shift to “guidance” it forced – and had not heard of this site either (swiftly corrected that) !! There are obviously a lot of sheeple but there are more and more out there who are sceptical and just need to be encouraged ! Toby – why don’t you publish your daily traffic volumes am sure would show a very heartening degree of growth !!

133272 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #1067 of 1791 🔗

For what it’s worth today’s UK Hospital figures from
Show hospital Covid 19 cases down from yesterdays 972 to 901, this reduction may partly be due to Scotland’s revised figures?
The number of Covid 19 patients on ventilators has increased again by 9 up from 106 to 115
To my mind these sort of figures are the normal ebb and flow of a flu virus that is just pottering about and not doing very much, certainly no justification for any lockdowns or hysteria.

If, in spite of figures like these, people are still panicking about this virus, what will it take to bring everyone back to reality?

133342 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1068 of 1791 🔗

Don’t they know by now that ventilators kill Covid-19 patients?

133426 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1069 of 1791 🔗

I wonder how many people would not get on to hospital lists if HCQ or other early-intervention was not denied. (I presume it is still denied).

133275 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1070 of 1791 🔗


CDC Director Robert Redfield to the Senate

“These facemasks are the important, powerful public health tool we have … I might even go so far as to say that this facemask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vacci ne”

What is ongoing? Redfield knows that there is no evidence that masks protect for C-19. Why promoting it so strongly? Is it a deliberate attempt of spreading the disease by stealth to achieve herd immunity? There is a half-mad scientist in Ireland promoting facemasks as a type of mass vaccination.

133288 ▶▶ Nic, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1071 of 1791 🔗

Red hot today in aylesbury all shoped in masks except me , most were filthy , sweat stained rags ,many were wearing them outside in the baking heat,
Have people no common sense these days cant people see the masks are probably damaging their own health ,and will lower their resistance to germs.

133311 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nic, 5, #1072 of 1791 🔗

Ditto Morrison’s this afternoon. Included a young family with three boys under age ten, all wearing masks.

The cynic in me thinks that lowering resistance is the reason, not a side effect.

133314 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1073 of 1791 🔗

Is it a deliberate attempt of spreading the disease by stealth to achieve herd immunity? “

I doubt they care about achieving herd immunity, just care about keeping the nonsense going so they remain important

133319 ▶▶ David, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1074 of 1791 🔗

To me, the mandatory wearing of masks everywhere has been the intended end all along. The “virus” is just the means of implementation. I don’t know WHY somebody would want to do this, but it’s how it looks to me.

133324 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1075 of 1791 🔗

So the mask is now being elevated above the vaccine in the Covid Cult pantheon.

133330 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1077 of 1791 🔗

Hungary mandating muzzles in cinemas and theatres. It’s like lockdowns -one country does it and the rest follow -except Sweden.

133276 Basics, 2, #1078 of 1791 🔗

Uk Column today. It has often been asked where is the control of the government coming from. At approx 15 mins in the Column today addresses that directly with a 15 minute segment. It fits well with some of the thoughtful dicussions on LS.


The streaming today was not good, pixelated but that may be 77 brigade on my line. It doesn’t change the information.

133278 wayno, replying to wayno, 10, #1079 of 1791 🔗

Anyone else read the linked doc further up in the article? https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-07/core-principles-for-utilisation-of-rt-pcr-tests-for-detection-of-sars-cov-2.pdf

Just above the graph on false positives page 3 is this gem in the recommendations:

 The performance of the existing RT-PCR is at its best when its use is targeted, for example, when used to support diagnosis in symptomatic individuals. It is unsuited to the non-targeted screening of asymptomatic individuals, especially in populations with a low prevalence of infection. Use in asymptomatic individuals should, wherever possible, be on the basis of effective targeting, for example following tracing that has indicated a high-probability of exposure and thus likely infection.

133283 ▶▶ Julian, replying to wayno, 4, #1080 of 1791 🔗

And this is the test that’s being used to justify all these ramped up restrictions

133289 ▶▶▶ wayno, replying to Julian, #1081 of 1791 🔗

Yep, as already highlighted “ Then I found another paper by said Carl Mayers of NHS England which was apparently submitted to SAGE meeting 41 (June 11th)”

133335 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to wayno, #1082 of 1791 🔗

A great find, thanks!

133373 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to wayno, 1, #1083 of 1791 🔗

Yes indeed our society and our economy are being totally wrecked by a testing procedure that might as well have been set up by Inspector Gadget.
Politicians desperately wanted a sort of speed camera for Covid 19 , black/white, yes/no and they decided that the PCR test could be used in this way, it cannot do this and should not be used in this way.
Humans history is full of elaborate and complex systems that have been built on fallacious ideas and Covid testing is clearly in this category. However, most of the world has now bought into this monster and the question is how can we challenge this? What can we do to bring any rational thought to this testing system? Any suggestions?

133281 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 6, #1084 of 1791 🔗

Awesome! 😀

Man using A SNAKE ‘as face covering’ seen riding bus in Greater Manchester


133354 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to zacaway, 3, #1085 of 1791 🔗

This is absolutely brilliant! It would ensure social distancing, so quite effective. Northerners – I love them!

133290 RonniC, replying to RonniC, 26, #1086 of 1791 🔗

Sorry to butt in with this but I really must share my absolute disgust. On Monday, my 12-year-old granddaughter coughed once (once!) during a lesson at her school in Kingsbridge, Devon. Despite having no other symptoms (either before her cough or since) she was immediately sent home and the whole family, including her 10-year-old sister, are now having to self-isolate for 14 days. I gather that my granddaughter will not be allowed back to school until she’s been tested for Covid. But there are no tests to be had. None whatsoever at Plymouth Hospital, nor it seems at any of the other test centres in Devon, and certainly none in the GP practices. And I gather, too, that children are at the back of the queue when it comes to getting tested. I won’t go into the affect it’s having on the girls who had been so looking forward to going back to school despite all the ridiculous rules and regulations, but my daughter and her husband are now desperately worried since they’re both self-employed so will be losing at least two weeks pay as well as possible clients. Neither were eligible for furlough money but instead kept going financially from March to the end of August by using their savings (now pretty much depleted). It’s a shocking, shocking state of affairs.

133293 ▶▶ wayno, replying to RonniC, 5, #1087 of 1791 🔗

That is certainly not the case at our local primary. All have colds atm, none sent home as of yet, a teacher is self isolating as she was in contact with someone who tested positive. She was neg, but cant come back till she’s sat out 14 days. Luckily they are not sacrificing the children to the covid gods yet.

133307 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RonniC, 4, #1088 of 1791 🔗

“Having to self-isolate”. I’m not aware there’s any legal power to force someone to self-isolate, other than the travel quarantine. The rest is guidance only.

133327 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to RonniC, 2, #1089 of 1791 🔗

To call that frustrating is a gross understatement. It’s cruel and, in a normal world, would be criminal to deprive kids of an education and put parents in a position to not be able to feed their families. There just aren’t words strong enough…

133332 ▶▶ annie, replying to RonniC, 5, #1090 of 1791 🔗


133348 ▶▶ Richard, replying to RonniC, #1091 of 1791 🔗

That’s just appalling

133350 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to RonniC, 2, #1092 of 1791 🔗

It is absolutely ridiculous.

This is a copy of my earlier comment

No clear guidance from the health department to the schools. Only mentions high temperature, coughing, loss of taste and smell.

Questions to determine whether a child must be tested:

  1. what is the official definition of a high temperature? Has this been distributed to schools?
  2. what is meant by coughing? cough every now and then, coughing without stop, hacking cough?
  3. if you have a blocked nose you can’t smell well, does this count?
  4. Display only the 1 symptom, display 2 symptoms or 3 symptoms?
  5. How do you make the distinction between a cold and the covid-19 virus?
  6. How do you make the distinction between a cold and the covid-19 virus?
133423 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Victoria, #1093 of 1791 🔗

off the top of my head differential diagnosis based on:
Temperature 38.4 could be tonsillitis, chicken pox, measles, ear infection, appendicitis, meningitis.
Cough could be allergy, cold, upper respiratory tract infection, pertussis, croup

133351 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to RonniC, 2, #1094 of 1791 🔗

are now having to self-isolate for 14 days” — They have been told to, they dont have to, theres no positive test and there is not yet police enforced home imprisonment of the healthy.

133639 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark II, #1095 of 1791 🔗

There is something odd going on in the S West. The school allegedly handing out gold star badges to children who were non mask wearers was supposed to be in Redruth. The YouTube allegation, doubtless false, that a whole class of children was forcibly vaccinated when the NHS marched into a schoolroom was allegedly from Plymouth. Now this credible account of a child sent home for one cough in Kingsbridge. Can anyone living there tell us more about local feeling, attitudes, politics?

133642 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bruno, #1096 of 1791 🔗

I’m in the SW and haven’t heard anything exceptionally dodgy round here other than some of the mad symptom, test isolate policies. I’m not buying the two wackier claims without better proof.

133716 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bruno, #1097 of 1791 🔗

I found a video on the net that may be the one referred to earlier, where a class was vaccinated – it was the HPV vaccine and the parents were not told about it happening in advance. (Personally I think it likely the school knew it would be happening – maybe not exactly when – and in the light of the current circumstances did not inform the parents, in order to increase the take-up).

It seems that the parents were sent confirmatory text messages a day or so later, informing them their child had been vaccinated, by whom and what with. It seems that even if a parent does not consent, the person giving the vaccine is allowed to override that if the child ‘expresses an interest in having the vaccine’ – I see lots of room for abuse of that rule (plus peer pressure).

I do wonder about the school giving the NHS the mobile numbers of the parents… did parents, on enrolling the child at the school, inadvertently sign away their rights regarding the school’s use (abuse) of their mobile numbers?

In any case, the NHS and likely the government now have a mobile number linked to every parent…which could be used for Track n Trace???

133396 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to RonniC, 1, #1098 of 1791 🔗

‘Biting my tongue’ and watching BBC TV news, even they have just stated the criteria for concern in schools and it is way beyond the criteria this school is using. On an issue like this and given the current febrile atmosphere, there should be a Nationally agreed criteria for schools to raise concerns, clearly leaving it to individual schools is giving these bizarre situations.

133459 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RonniC, 5, #1099 of 1791 🔗

How much longer are you, your family and all people in your situation supposed to put up with these mad,pointless and ineffective tyrannical measures?
We have 2 teenage granddaughters,18 and 15,the elder has had to put back going to university a year and her sister is half way through her disrupted GCSE’S study.
What are the so called experts and the government trying to do apart from destroying people’s lives ?

133556 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to RonniC, #1100 of 1791 🔗

Just crazy, everyone cough sometimes!

133292 DRW, replying to DRW, 16, #1101 of 1791 🔗

I get worsening sinking feelings every time I hear about more lockdowns, mockdowns, muzzling, stupid rules, T&T enforcement, mandatory vaccines. Rumoured today, considered tomorrow, enacted within two weeks. More steps on the road from normality to techno-tyranny and the clowns are probably getting a juicy commission for all of it.

133299 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to DRW, 7, #1102 of 1791 🔗

I can only hope Simon Dolan’s judicial review next week puts the breaks on them:


At the very least, they could judge that the Government must debate & vote on any new measures in Parliament. Probably would still get things though, but would tie Hancock’s hands a bit.

133318 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to zacaway, 4, #1103 of 1791 🔗

I support his actions but he has no chance of success the judges are in on the scam there is no justice.

133321 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to 6097 Smith W, 3, #1104 of 1791 🔗

Worth a shot, might change a few minds even if it ultimately fails in any legal recourse.

133411 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to zacaway, 1, #1105 of 1791 🔗

It would force MPs to declare their complicity through a specific Act of Parliament. In the short term at least that would probably suit Bojo et al.

133294 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #1106 of 1791 🔗

So, it’s on then…

“UK PM Boris Johnson tells MPs that a second national lockdown “would be disastrous for UK economy”

133298 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1107 of 1791 🔗

Good shout. Invert what is spoken to find out what is actually being said. W/c 5th October by the very latest would be my guess, and with much tighter restrictions than last time.

133304 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Richard O, 3, #1108 of 1791 🔗

No doubt they have been taking notes from Victoria, Oz on how to lockdown “properly”.

133334 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1109 of 1791 🔗

Johnson should have added: “….which is why we will be doing it again.”

133345 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Richard O, 2, #1110 of 1791 🔗

“as the attempts of the last few months haven’t quite turned the UK into a basket case” curfews anybody?

133361 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sam Vimes, #1111 of 1791 🔗

Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown. Lockdown. Don’t lockdown.

133515 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1112 of 1791 🔗

Lockdown? Fuck off, and no don’ts.

133364 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1113 of 1791 🔗

So tell the NHS to pull itself together

133385 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1114 of 1791 🔗

Sadly this seems to all but confirm a second one is coming – the economic disaster has already happened but has been iceberg like so far but the next few weeks is going to be when a lot more becomes visable – Johnson knows this and so the only cup and ball trick available is to lockdown and again and then say not our fault. Utter cu@ts.

133408 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard, 2, #1115 of 1791 🔗

Indeed, just in time for the end of furlough.

133389 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1116 of 1791 🔗

It was rumoured all along from James Dellingpole’s podcast.

133296 Bella, replying to Bella, 18, #1117 of 1791 🔗

‘Of course, by knowledge or common sense observation, most Americans already know that masking everyone is superstition. But unlike privately carrying a lucky charm, mandating facial coverings requires the consent of the governed.

Many cultures mandate clothing that appears totally irrational to outsiders. Never have those cultures pretended that there is a scientific basis for their clothing requirement. Their leaders rule, and their citizens accept, that their choice of clothing is due to religious or cultural preference.

Not wearing a mask is not mere “personal choice” like deciding between a head covering or a t-shirt. It is a flashpoint for being a free human being who has consented to be governed but has not consented to be ruled. We do not consent to a masked America, because that is a fundamental change in American society, culture, norms, and rights.
People who are apathetic toward their own liberty cannot eliminate Constitutional rights for those who are not . This is not the first (or last) time that people who believe in superstition are screaming the loudest. The Constitution exists precisely to protect all people during times of mass hysteria.

The mask has become the most visible symbol of #socialconditioning to Americans determined to preserve individual freedom. Thus far most Americans have continued to give their consent to be governed. But you are trying our patience.’

Dr.Simone Gold June 2020

133308 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Bella, 4, #1118 of 1791 🔗

Brilliant! I love Dr. Gold — she’s the doctor that organized “America’s Frontline Doctors.”

133367 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1119 of 1791 🔗

I know Lisa, she’s on my follow list.

133297 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1120 of 1791 🔗

The word curfew drifts into use. To antagonise and mock. Deliberate drifting out imo. A week or so ago no one spoke curfew. So what is going to be the new ‘curfew’? The next measure they drift out into rumour to maybe/maybe not crystalise into reality.

While the Wee Witch is busy out front not ruling out curfew the next word is being decided in the back rooms. It’s a tedious cycle of oppression. One at a time. Hypnotic. Lockdown… Mask… Space… Curfew… Feels like being lulled in set up for a shock.

133302 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 6, #1121 of 1791 🔗

Indeed. Being floated to see the reaction, and if there’s no significant pushback then off we go. Close to national lockdown in all but name, by stealth

133312 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 27, #1122 of 1791 🔗

This is most extensive social engineering project of all time. The use of language has been absolutely breathtaking, a complete masterclass in hypnotism and mind control. The government are running rings around us, whilst simultaneously giving the appearance (at least to the uninitiated) that they have no idea what they are doing.

133333 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Richard O, 1, #1123 of 1791 🔗

Why are we immune? Have already had a vaccine for it?

133392 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Richard O, 5, #1124 of 1791 🔗

Or, they really have no idea what they’re doing. And they’re making such a monumental mess that no-one can believe they’re so incompetent.

Having said that, I agree that they seem to have learned a great deal from the Ministry of Truth.

133407 ▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to DJ Dod, 6, #1125 of 1791 🔗

No DJ, this is totally deliberate. These people are anything but stupid. This in my opinion is a cull of a thousand cuts. The elderly, the sick, the mentally ill, all dying or persuaded to die. Look at cancer deaths, we have management who, at any time, can step in and stop the deaths by getting on with treatment but they do not.

The deaths from this will put the Holocaust in the shade.

Harold Shipman was apparently quite a nice man to talk to. Boris is a nice, sometimes bumbling, man also.

133802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Arnie, #1126 of 1791 🔗

Good point about Shipman. Also I saw a documentary once about Jeffrey Dahmer; one of the cops who had got to know him (in custody) literally shed tears when he died, because on some very, very small level, he thought he was really quite an OK guy.

133629 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to DJ Dod, #1127 of 1791 🔗

You can be both incredibly stupid and fairly evil

133815 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Richard O, #1128 of 1791 🔗


133303 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 2, #1129 of 1791 🔗

Coronavirus whistleblower speaks out about possible COVID origin on ‘Tucker’

It came from a Chinese lab….which we’d already guessed.

133306 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Lms23, 1, #1130 of 1791 🔗

That video won’t last long

133467 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to 6097 Smith W, #1131 of 1791 🔗

Apparently it is already on bitchute, in case!

133309 Keen Cook, replying to Keen Cook, 6, #1132 of 1791 🔗

My contact with MPs
Just in passing – this is my anti-mask rant to mine (one of 4 emails this year):

“Just thought to let you know that I will neve r, under any circumstances, wear a face mask unless persuaded by the production of incontrovertible evidence of the possibility of killing off thousands of my fellow citizens by my very existence. Looks like I won’t be going into a physical shop any time in the foreseeable future.
The possibility of my doing that now, living on my own in green leafy East Yorkshire, 4 months after the Covid19 virus was circulating more widely, is just ridiculous.
Applying common sense, staying home if poorly, washing hands well, not getting close and personal with people you don’t know – yes. Reasonable and sensible.
As John McEnroe might have said “you cannot be serious?””

This was his reply and he spelt my name wrong (and he does have a track record of defending c liberties):
Thank you for your email regarding the wearing of facemasks.
I am the first to defend civil liberties and have an assiduous track record in this area. However, I disagree with you on this one.
Proper freedom is not the freedom to infect others with a potentially lethal disease.

After the same MP did stand up recently in a deserted house I sent him this:

“Thank you for standing up and saying what so many of us think.  Our democracy is starting to feel like it is dead and dying and it is beginning to feel like we are living in an authoritarian state – what has happened to our processes, our institutions and our judiciary? Why are they not challenging the status quo?
I’ve read comparisons of the process of how the population Germany got behind Hitler pre second WW and am fearful – we are sleep walking into a catastrophe of our own making. Economic, social and political. While this may be an overreaction from an excited individual, it is also for you our elected member to make sure this cannot and doesn’t happen.

If I say nothing, then you can say you did not know. I am speaking up and you cannot say you did not know.

I sincerely hope there are many other members of parliament who think as you do – it has been of great regret that no-one has stepped up and challenged the current powers.”

I haven’t had a response yet.
Not really much he can say I guess.

133331 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Keen Cook, 5, #1133 of 1791 🔗

Proper freedom is not the freedom to infect others with a potentially lethal disease” … if that’s the line they’re going to take (even the libertarians) we need to start countering it with a similarly succinct phrase. Ideas anyone?

133347 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to kf99, 5, #1134 of 1791 🔗

It’s impossible to, because its so stupid its impossible to counter. Actually had a infuriating 3hr long back and fourth with my company director today who thinks we should all be back under lockdown for some reason, he was coming up with the same sort of crap as well as all the usual false equivalence stuff about seat belts and smoking bans.

Once they start down this road, you know its impossible, as they’re obviously prepared to _assume_ that _everybody_ is infected and therefore _everybody_ is killing everyone else, simply by going outside and breathing. Its a cretinous argument, but it’s hard to counter, because of course if you _knew_ you were infected and you went about deliberately spluttering and coughing and sneezing on people then you’re a twat, but they seem completely unable to distinguish between that and the 99.9% of population uninfected (or whatever the current number is claimed)

133356 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to kf99, 6, #1135 of 1791 🔗

At any point anyone may be carrying a disease potentially lethal to others. So on your MP’s argument, pretty much all human life is a dreadful mistake.

133464 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Yawnyaman, 2, #1136 of 1791 🔗

Also someone could be developing an illness like cancer that they are not yet aware of, and an infection you inadvertently give them might make it worse – but that will ALWAYS be the case – life is risky, so why should we get paranoid about it now?

133363 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to kf99, 4, #1137 of 1791 🔗

I guess you could argue back that we’ve never taken that line with any other disease before. How many times does he think he’s unwittingly passed flu onto someone? How is that any different from Covid?

133375 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to kf99, 6, #1138 of 1791 🔗

Proper freedom is not the freedom to deprive others of liberty.

133481 ▶▶▶▶ Jo, replying to DJ Dod, 1, #1139 of 1791 🔗

As I’ve said before, it’s about proportionality (the least restrictive option, as in mental health law relating to deprivation of liberty). If someone has a highly lethal disease (symptomatic) then in my view it is reasonable for them to keep away from other people for the duration of that illness. But healthy people should never be so restricted, unless in exceptional circumstances. In identifying what these circumstances are there would need to be a death rate if infected of a magnitude so much higher the than is the case with Covid-19. The IFR is likely to have gone down, if as has happened, there are rising positive cases (albeit questionable) but the death rate has gone down. Any small rise, given the current preponderance of deaths by other causes, should not trigger a panic reaction.

133513 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kf99, 1, #1140 of 1791 🔗

Proper freedom is not the freedom of the deluded majority to bully, snitch on, insult, gag, and crush those with the temerity to think for themsekves

133686 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to kf99, 3, #1141 of 1791 🔗

Proper freedom IS the freedom to put others at risk of a potentially lethal disease. This is a mutual contract all humans consent to take out with each other whenever they choose to occupy the same space.

Thankfully, the risk is currently lower than the seasonally adjusted average and has been for a while so that MP can, to echo Noel, fuck off.

133377 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Keen Cook, 8, #1142 of 1791 🔗

My Freedoms should not be taken away for a series of ifs, buts and maybes

133322 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 7, #1143 of 1791 🔗

Regarding the Rhondda Cynon Taf lockdown, it is being reported that “ A cluster of cases has been traced back to a rugby club trip to the races, which “stopped off at a series of pubs on the way”.”
To me this shows that the track and trace is breaking the data protection laws, as they have obviously tracked back this rugby clubs trip and used the data from these pubs and are now disclosing it to the whole world. Also, with all these covid zealot loonies around there’s a big safety issue here too, as it would be quite easy to identify players at the rugby club involved in this and for physical violence or deaths threats to be made to them.

133326 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to JohnB, #1144 of 1791 🔗

But you haven’t been able go to the races since March so how does that work?

133329 ▶▶▶ David, replying to arfurmo, #1145 of 1791 🔗

Doncaster had about 2000 people present for ONE day – last Wednesday. The claim is that these are some of those people.

133344 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to David, 7, #1146 of 1791 🔗

Official statement from Doncaster Racecourse:

Following this afternoon’s announcements from the Welsh Health Minister, Doncaster Racecourse can confirm the following:

As a condition of running the pilot event last week, we were required to implement a full track and trace database that took the details of all attendees that would be on site, linked to an e-ticket and photo ID system on entry that would verify attendance.

Doncaster Racecourse has received no contact from any organisation, including the NHS or the Welsh Government, to verify the attendance of any individuals at last week’s event for the purposes of track and trace. In addition, we do not have any ticket bookings for any groups from the South Wales area for Wednesday’s event.

We will be contacting the Welsh Health Minister as a matter of urgency to clarify the situation.


133346 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to JohnB, 1, #1147 of 1791 🔗

Don’t mess with people from Yorkshire! (I’m not from Yorkshire but I know a few).

133349 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alison9, 1, #1148 of 1791 🔗

Looks like there some lying going on somewhere here.

133463 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 2, #1149 of 1791 🔗

I’m rather worried about the photo ID system on entry etc (cameras?).. How much were attendees informed of beforehand, did they actively consent to all this? It rather reveals the future ‘direction of travel’ for attending large events, and I do not like it..

133460 ▶▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to JohnB, #1150 of 1791 🔗

I forgot about Doncaster’s one day. At the time I posted their restrictions -no shouting, no going within five furlongs of anyone, no breathing etc that it seems impossible that anyone could have caught it there.

133605 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #1151 of 1791 🔗

So who is lying?
Not Doncaster, I’ll be bound.

133382 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to JohnB, 1, #1152 of 1791 🔗

We are well in the way to beatings & lynchings. As we are all aware lives are being destroyed for ‘wrongthink’ it is but a natural step for the zealots to start maiming & killing people.

133398 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to JohnB, 1, #1153 of 1791 🔗

I thought there was full covid bollocks on show at Doncaster – maskage, limited cash payments, no cheering or raised voices and strict (un)social distancing. Surely the super intelligent non-virus could not penetrate these well thought out scientifically proven measures.

133402 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, #1154 of 1791 🔗

Oops, just seen the comment below.

133410 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 1, #1155 of 1791 🔗

Very interesting, looks like their lies have been caught out.

133328 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1156 of 1791 🔗


“What kind of “bioweapon” targets ppl in last yr of life & remains harmless to healthy ppl?”

 I think the twitter thread above is correct.The Chinese “whistle blower” commented on this blog and interviewed in TV  is a double agent sent over to continue the scare story which is beneficial for China in the end.
And Prof Balloux, one of the best scientists around saying sensible things, is also stating that C-19  is not a man made virus to be used as a bioweapon.

133390 ▶▶ Kate, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1157 of 1791 🔗

It is not a bioweapon but it probably did get released/escape from a lab.

After all a bioweapon would be too dangerous to release even if you needed a viral plague as distraction from financial collapse – viruses cannot be controlled and the elite would be just as much at risk of dying as the scorned proles.

The Wuhan lab has been researching bat retroviruses for at least twenty years, and they grew these viruses in human epithelial airway tissue with money from the US and Fauci.

A normal bat virus would not exhibit the tropism for human lungs that this virus does. However, just growing in human tissue culture for an extended period would create natural varieties that would be very good at infecting humans.

No need to “create” an artificial virus, natural selection will do the process for you once the virus is living in human cell tissue cultures.

133337 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 17, #1158 of 1791 🔗

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

Are government ministers really that stupid?

I’ve spent too much time watching the machinations of the American Democrats, seeing their antics in their attempts to undermine Trump and his presidency. They’ve succeeded in the UK, as there are very few in the media, and much of the public, even among otherwise send people (e.g. Julia Hartley Brewer) who don’t believe Trump is the worst president ever! and really, really stupid.
Then there’s Ardern in New Zealand, and the left-wing governments in Australia, Kim Jong Dan in particular. They are all following very, very similar policies in dealing with CV19, which our own pretend Conservative government are keen to follow.
They know full well that CV19 is not the mass killer initially feared, but insist on the draconian clampdowns anyway. And we know they don’t believe it’s that deadly because they don’t follow the very rules that they insist the public must, enforced with police backing. Nancy Pelosi getting her hair cut in a city where all hair salons have been shut for six months, whilst also not wearing a mask is the latest example.
There’s an ongoing propaganda campaign throughout social media, and much of mainstream media. If it really was as bad as they say, CV19 wouldn’t need a propaganda campaign, we’d have the evidence of our own eyes.

So, sorry, but I don’t believe the “stupid” defence of our politicians. They’re not that stupid.

133371 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Lms23, 4, #1159 of 1791 🔗

No they are many things but stupid they are not. They do however have blood on their hands, and a lot of it.

133338 annie, 1, #1160 of 1791 🔗

Audible have just offered me cut price on a novel called Company of Liars: A Novel of the Plague.

133340 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 12, #1161 of 1791 🔗

Just returned from a trip into the city of London. It’s deserted, you can just walk across roads as there’s little traffic or people. Lots of shops and tourist attractions closed. Went to Tate Modern for the Andy Warhol exhibit, we were the only ones not wearing masks, got a few glances from bedwetters. One room attended (who was wear face mask and visor) asked why I didn’t wear a visor (it took me awhile to understand her). I just said I won’t wear any face covering.

But the walk around the city was the eye opener, if the city generates so much of this countries GDP then we are screwed.

133362 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #1162 of 1791 🔗

I was struck by how quiet it was around Victoria, Buckingham Palace, etc. Only my third time into central London since March (I live pretty centrally anyway). It would have been a lovely day to loiter and spend money, but with masks everywhere and “safety” notices on every flat surface, I couldn’t wait to escape back home.

133404 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #1163 of 1791 🔗

The activity is still happening – the trading / the fund management etc but it is happening from peoples home’s now – what you have seen to complete destruction of the service eco system for the people that used to work in the offices. Will know more when I go in next week for a couple of days but from what am hearing a big challenge is that people are not returning in anything like the numbers to create to critical mass to make it worthwhile returning…

133636 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Richard, #1164 of 1791 🔗

The rules in big banks are ridiculous. My friend works for an American bank and told me about their rules. I wouldn’t want to work in their office. And the majority of the staff are not there. She said that only top management is in the office.

133355 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 38, #1165 of 1791 🔗

Have just listened to Jonathan Sumption on BBC radio 4: absolutely brilliant!
He says if “old” people (I was born on the same day as lord Sumption) want to go into self imposed lockdown,that’s up to them but for the rest of us who know the “risks” and want to live and die by our own decisions,BLOODY well leave us alone.
Myself and my wife (same age) find the way we are treated incredibly insulting and patronising.
Do they think that “children of the sixties” are poor old dears who have be protected from ourselves.
I never thought I would say this: but I’m with Noel Gallagher:F××k off.

133366 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1166 of 1791 🔗

Philip, you have ten years in me but I’m absolutely delighted to hear your last sentence. Boris & Matcock please avail a ditch of your cadavers, pretty please!

133374 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Arnie, #1167 of 1791 🔗


133369 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1168 of 1791 🔗

What time, will go back and listen.

133372 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to hotrod, #1169 of 1791 🔗

Look on You tube (Jonathan Sumption/Radio 4)

133412 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1170 of 1791 🔗

Proud of you for making that statement. Quite right. Freedom of choice not pointless laws.

133414 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Leemc23, #1171 of 1791 🔗


133357 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 15, #1172 of 1791 🔗

There has been zero Covid deaths in Wales in September.

However two counties are now locked down?


133360 ▶▶ DRW, replying to hotrod, #1173 of 1791 🔗

The joys of cOvId ZeRo!

133365 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to hotrod, 1, #1174 of 1791 🔗

Hospital data is flat too

133368 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #1175 of 1791 🔗

Plan A

Second lockdown
Blame it on selfish young people
Economy crashes, blamed on second lockdown, caused by selfish young people

Blame attributed to the dictator and handy cock……. Nil

133376 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Cecil B, 15, #1176 of 1791 🔗

They should think very carefully about blaming young people. We’ll be the voters and legislators of the future and we will never forgive them for what they have done to our youth.

133384 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Poppy, 3, #1177 of 1791 🔗

Indeed Poppy. Sadly, our generation are ironically the most brainwashed.

133510 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 4, #1178 of 1791 🔗

Well said, Poppy. Don’t take it from them.Don’t blame any group in the population. Blame thpthe garbage that governs us. Never waver drom that.

133383 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1179 of 1791 🔗

Or if you prefer

Start and lose a war …..blame it on the jews
Economic Armageddon …….. blame it on the jews
Start another war…..blame it on the jews

Blame attributable to the Kaiser and Hitler…. Nil

Nothing new under the sun

133379 DRW, replying to DRW, 7, #1180 of 1791 🔗

I really want to be optimistic but it’s getting harder every day.

133405 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to DRW, #1181 of 1791 🔗

Agree. Today feels shit. All the talk at work is about preparing for a second lockdown “within 14 days”. Apparently that’s the messaging coming out from (unnamed) powers that be. I hope it’s just gossip.

133626 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Leemc23, #1182 of 1791 🔗

They hae been warning about lockdown in October since July.
Maybe planned. And they increased testing to give a reason for lockdown

133436 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, 2, #1183 of 1791 🔗

Doesn’t help with the nights drawing in too now, and it being dark at 7:30pm.

133380 john, replying to john, 1, #1184 of 1791 🔗

Slightly off topic, but perhaps relevant for those that don’t feel they have a voice – this quote from a review of a Black Sabbath album was in today’s Guardian – historically my paper of choice, but not since its abysmal covid coverage – but the sneaking in of climate change (and i’m not a “denier” by the way) into a song review was one of the best examples of bad journalism I’ve seen in a while…I think it should be rewritten as “only to be spurned like so many lockdown sceptics…..”

“Iron Man is a prime example of Butler’s compassion for the lost and directionless. On the surface, it’s a simple sci-fi tale about a being travelling back in time to warn the world of the dangers to come, only to be spurned like so many climate scientists.”


133397 ▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to john, #1185 of 1791 🔗

Butler’s actual explanation of the song meaning (as opposed to some Guardian hack’s interpretation) was that it was about “pollution and all that bollocks” – not climate change. https://www.unmask.us/songwriters-a-b/black-sabbath/#IronMan

133381 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1186 of 1791 🔗

I received back this afternoon and unexpected reply to an appeal I submitted about what I thought was an insufficient reply to a FOI request question. Their reply below.

To me there are 2 very telling sentences that could be very telling. These are:

The government also created legislation to close businesses without the need for a notice to be served by Pubic Health England. None of the powers that rest with the local authority in relation to Covid-19 bring with it a requirement to pay compensation.

Reading this all the relevant legislation, which are all Statutory Instruments, in recent months that the Council listed are for one thing only – to avoid using the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 and therefore to avoid following the due processes in that Act and to avoid paying compensation.

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t UKGPAs have precedence over S.I.s and S.I.s cannot overrule or supersede UKGPAs?

It is all very sneaky and underhanded.

“Thank you for your email seeking clarification in relation to our letter dated 3 August 2020. Please accept my apologies for the delay.

Whilst you make reference to the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984, you also make reference relating to the current Covid-19 pandemic and the restrictions that have been placed upon individuals and businesses. The responses provided were in relation to the current pandemic situation.

Your request for clarification does not take into account the following:-

·       Coronavirus Act 2020
·       Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020
·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, Business Closure) (England) Regulations 2020
·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) ( England) Regulations 2020 (and amendments)
·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, Public Health Information for Passengers Travelling to England) Regulations 2020
·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020 (and, prior to that, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020) and amendments
·       Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020 and amendments

All of the above legislation imposes powers on various public sector organisations including Public Health England, local authorities, police, immigration officers and central government. Additionally, some of the legislation above sets out in law requirements of, or restrictions on, individuals and businesses.

Your initial request does not relate to a specific time period and so some of the legislation listed above is no longer in force having been replaced by updated legislation.

With regards to directions to business to close, since 18 July 2020, a local authority (not a specified officer) can issue a direction to businesses (or types of business) imposing restrictions and which may include closure. Prior to this date, Public Health England was the organisation which had the power to close businesses (and it continues to have such power) in response to the Covid-19 pandemic. The government also created legislation to close businesses without the need for a notice to be served by Pubic Health England. None of the powers that rest with the local authority in relation to Covid-19 bring with it a requirement to pay compensation.”

133401 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1187 of 1791 🔗

Wow. That’s small business shut down with no compensation by petty minded and under qualified council officials. Slippery in the extreme for Government to act this way. No way less sinister than the FPN’s being applied in a manner that they were never designed for.

133452 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1188 of 1791 🔗

AG, I think this needs to be sent to Simon Dolan for his case, and also to Francis Hoar!

As regards the need for Parliamentary scrutiny, didn’t Jonathan Sumption say that the Public Health act doesn’t need it, but the Civil contingency act does, and that is why the government chose to use the former rather than the latter? Also because the latter is strictly time-limited?

133484 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 3, #1189 of 1791 🔗

They both got sent it before I posted it here.

133487 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #1190 of 1791 🔗


134036 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, #1191 of 1791 🔗

Simon says it’s with his lawyers, he let me know this morning.

Hope it helps the case.

133386 Neil Hartley, replying to Neil Hartley, 8, #1192 of 1791 🔗

I was at Littlehampton beach yesterday. Sad to see an old boy there wearing a mask. There were only a few people on the beach but he was in a mask. He looked very frail (yet menacing). The point is, he took off his mask to go for a swim (at which point he looked like a delightful old man). I’d say he has a million times more chance of drowning in the sea than contracting coronavirus on a sparsely populated beach. What has this cruel government done?

133395 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #1193 of 1791 🔗

Each morning and evening when I have the pleasure of a school drop off / pick up via the cue system I see a gigantic over weight woman doing the same with a surgical mask on. Wandering around the streets, with her super powers, completely oblivious to the reality that her weight is her biggest health challenge. It’s sad to watch. Outside, in the sun and fresh air = surgical mask. Problem is Gov is moving us towards that next for everyone.

133399 ▶▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to Leemc23, 4, #1194 of 1791 🔗

I’d agree with that – masks outside and a curfew coming…absolutely unfathomably stupid and incompetent people ‘running’ this country (into the ground).

133420 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Leemc23, #1195 of 1791 🔗

Won’t happen

133427 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Dan Clarke, #1196 of 1791 🔗

Anything is just another SI away now.

133448 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, #1197 of 1791 🔗


133387 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #1198 of 1791 🔗

I knew it was coming. Where the UK goes, Canada is soon to follow, though it’s just our province of Ontario for now. The Premier (aka the dictator) has announced he will limit the number of people allowed to gather indoors (50 right now) and outdoors (100 right now). No numbers have been announced yet and no date. Note to virus: hurry up and infect lots of people before the new diktats go into effect.

133400 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1199 of 1791 🔗

I have heard that Ontario is the worst province for coronabollocks out there. Is it all at the provincial level like America and Australia?

133444 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to DRW, 1, #1200 of 1791 🔗

I honestly don’t think Ontario is any worse than the other provinces. British Columbia hasn’t even mandated masks and yet, over time, I’m told by people who live there that people are wearing them voluntarily indoors and outdoors. Makes me sick, but at least if I lived there I’d still have a choice. The reader comments on the new restrictions coming were all positive, with the same BS you’ve experienced — close the bars to keep the schools open — as if one has anything to do with the other. It’s all so very disheartening.

133417 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1201 of 1791 🔗

They’re all in on it together. Where are the investigative journalists trying to find out why, what are they getting out of it, especially that one in Victoria

133391 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, -1, #1202 of 1791 🔗

To understand the impact of false positives on case numbers you also have to take the false negative rate into account. From what I’ve read that is higher than the FP rate.

133403 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Montag Smith, #1203 of 1791 🔗


133421 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #1204 of 1791 🔗

Yes but negligible in a sample where there are very few positives. By example. Population total 10,000 with 100 actually positive. Test 99% accurate for negative ie 1% false positives, 98% accurate for positives ie 2% false negative. You will get 99 false positives and 2 false negatives. Retesting all positives and discounting all those who retest negative gets you nearly there

133917 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Yawnyaman, #1205 of 1791 🔗

There’s no ‘there’ there.

133393 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #1206 of 1791 🔗

“I say this with a heavy heart.” and “It’s for the greater good.”

I think now, someone should kill them.

133443 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, #1207 of 1791 🔗

Who are you quoting there?

133461 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 1, #1208 of 1791 🔗

Hancock, Johnson, all of ’em.

133506 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1209 of 1791 🔗

I always think of Hot Fuzz when “It’s for the greater good” is mentioned.

133406 Yawnyaman, 2, #1210 of 1791 🔗

My son has recently returned from a year studying in South Korea. He was in fact briefly at home during late February when the country had its own scare, but returned mid-March. Since a February, the country has been in a curious twilight world similar to much of East Asia. Not many cases, very few deaths. Occasional surges leading usually to focussed action. Schools closed for two months nationwide, opened in April, have closed round the capital for several weeks since the latest outbreak there ( a few thousand confirmed cases). Very few flights in or out of the country, making it very isolated. Most shops, restaurants and offices stayed open throughout, though often quite empty. My son’s teaching after 14 day’s enforced quarantine was mostly online, Apart from maybe one class a week. He did have a fair amount of freedom to roam and meet up with friends, especially from April, even went to an open air wedding, but large gatherings are still very rare. Emphasis less on Government orders and more on advice, with a strong shaming culture to keep people in line. Masks rarely mandatory but pervasive in crowded areas. This seems less about not spreading disease and more about protecting from air pollution and good manners in a country where hankies are rare and spitting traditionally common. Does contribute to an impression of sterility, in a country where just 3% of the country is under 5..(UK 6%, Zambia 16%). XR would love it….

133409 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 1, #1211 of 1791 🔗

JHB going full on now.

Those with Twitter please RT.


133441 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 2, #1212 of 1791 🔗

Maybe also send Julia HB Ivor’s latest 2 minute casedemic video? It’s on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed.

She has a lot of followers who may well be more likely to watch something 2 minutes long rather than the (excellent) 37 minute one…

133445 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 1, #1213 of 1791 🔗

Please could someone with Twitter ask this guy https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom how many cycles Sweden uses in its PCR tests? I haven’t been able to find out but reckon he probably can..

133416 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1214 of 1791 🔗


Overall about one in thirteen deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate did not have the disease as the underlying cause of death, however, this proportion has risen substantially to nearly a third over the last eight weeks.
From the Oxford group. Amazing 1/3 last eight weeks!!

133910 ▶▶ TJN, replying to swedenborg, #1215 of 1791 🔗

Yep, try to work that one out.

133418 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 37, #1216 of 1791 🔗

Had to go on a training course today.

Good to be with a room full off sceptics to varying degrees.

First question was “anyone want to wear a mask? Not required but plenty here if you want one”.

No-one wanted one.

Over lunch speaking to the others they all agreed that they realised that it was all crap when they actually thought about all the nonsensical restrictions and who the virus is so intelligent it can count, can tell if you re in a pub or a shop and so on – no need to tell you lot about it.

They did not really know where to start looking for more info so gave them some websites, info etc.

They all agreed what with the upcoming Parliamentary debate, the upcoming Judicial Review, the 45 cycles and false positives for the PCR test and it’s idiocy for being sued as a diagnostic tool (I had to explain this to them, they understood) and mountings scepticism the timing for this 2nd wave and spike is very convenient.

This only increased their belief it’s all crap and were glad that someone could actually give them facts and explain things in a way that made sense.

A heartening day.

133422 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1217 of 1791 🔗

Glad to hear you had a nice day, I find them quite rare these days.

133429 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to DRW, 6, #1218 of 1791 🔗

They are definitely rare which is why I cherished today.

Don’t think I’l have another day like this for a while.

133424 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #1219 of 1791 🔗

Forgot to say that nearly every person who said their company is making them wear a mask quite a lot are reporting sore throats, coughs and so on.

They all blamed it on the masks so told them to read the exemptions as the mask is causing harm blah blah blah – you guys know it all already.

133447 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1220 of 1791 🔗

Great stuff Awkward! I’m still running through mud with a lot of the people around me so I’m boosted by your positive experience today. ‘Up and at’ em!’, the truth will prevail!

133451 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Arnie, 1, #1221 of 1791 🔗

I really want to believe that it will Arnie. But the odds are not looking great right now.

133419 R G, 6, #1222 of 1791 🔗

I’m in Merseyside and the panic buying is ramping up again at my local supermarket. Not quite at March/April levels just yet but there’s a sense that local lockdown isn’t far away (32 cases per 100,000 in my neck of the woods).

133428 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 51, #1223 of 1791 🔗

I’m experiencing a big low today. I made an error of getting involved in a debate about masks on the Guardian website. I was trying to highlight the silliness of it all, but in an entirely calm and polite way. After a few comments, I found that three of my messages had been removed and my future comments would be moderated. What the heck is going on? Up until a few months ago, the scientific consensus was that face masks in the community are not effective. Now you are silenced for even suggesting this? The irony is that I have been Guardian reader for 20 years. I feel completely despondent and politically lost. Think I need to switch off the tech for a week or so to recharge. Hate, hate, hate this world at the moment. All we are doing is counting old people dying and createing panic we can never escape from. A definite low day.

133435 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tommo, 20, #1224 of 1791 🔗

Maybe try to reframe it as a badge of honour. You were speaking truth to power and you got censored, which makes you brave. You irritated people and that’s what we sceptic do! We need to post, post some more, and post even more and keep those censors busy.

133439 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Tommo, 26, #1225 of 1791 🔗

Tonmo, we are from opposite sides of the political spectrum but I totally understand you on this. You are right, they are wrong. A lie, repeated a thousand times is still a lie.

Turn the technology off my friend, have a break, recharge, and then come back at a time of your choosing. We definitely need you, and every other person who is able to combat this nonsense so please do return.

We can debate politics when this issue has been resolved. The first pint is on me.


133468 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Tommo, 2, #1226 of 1791 🔗

I’m with you. Also feeling low, today. I think you’re right about removing tech and recharging… and probably good to get a bit more sleep, as well.

133471 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tommo, 1, #1227 of 1791 🔗

I concur, I wonder if we’ve had a good run but are actually losing this fight again. Of course it’s not over but things aren’t looking up right now.

133476 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Tommo, 2, #1228 of 1791 🔗

I’m with you on this. Sadly tomorrow will be lower. Definitely unplug from the Guardian. Exactly how many critical corona-related articles have they produced in recent months?

133477 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tommo, 7, #1229 of 1791 🔗

You’ve been a Guardian reader for 20 years and you weren’t aware that they actively censor dissent? They’ve been doing that for many years. It’s just their censorship presumably never bothered you before, because it was in line with your own politics. Now it’s turned on you, you deign to notice it.

Well, that’s what you get when you accept censorship of badspeak. Eventually your opinion becomes the badspeak.

133505 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tommo, 7, #1230 of 1791 🔗

My dear, dear Tommo, if this bollocks has got you off the Grauniad for good, you should be dancing for joy.

133561 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to annie, 2, #1231 of 1791 🔗

Aye, off the Grauniad is where it’s at.


133526 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tommo, 5, #1232 of 1791 🔗

You are simply coming to a common realisation of what The Groan has become : its days as an independent radical newspaper employing investigative journalists have long gone. It is now a voice for the establishment focusing on a particular market, relaying a propaganda line through the back door.

Many of us have experienced their crude censorship – even before Covid.

133628 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to RickH, 1, #1233 of 1791 🔗

Hear hear (lost count of how many of my Grauniad comments have been censored!)

A good rule of thumb is that getting your comments censored on the Grauniad is a sign that you are correct.

133546 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Tommo, 1, #1234 of 1791 🔗

I frequently have days like this – utterly demoralised and full of anger. I cannot offer much solace other than to say you are not alone and rationality still persists ( on ALL sides of the political spectrum) – despite the madness. Ultimately, the real data will become unavoidable. Keep heart.

133673 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Tommo, 1, #1235 of 1791 🔗

If you do switch off for a few days, we will all nevertheless still be here when you come back. Still seeing the absurdity, still wondering why there’s no mainstream critique, still staying sane.

133674 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Tommo, 4, #1236 of 1791 🔗

Tommo, The Guardian used to practically be my bible; then after 9/11 and travelling around SE Asia I noticed that they were totally ignoring Islamist terror attacks and had pretty much dropped any news stories when it concerned minorities committing crimes. I was looking for their angle on the things I was reading, but there was no angle – there just wan’t a story. It took me two years before I finally realised that they didn’t report this stuff because they didn’t want their readers to know – and almost all Guardian readers read nothing else. Then they started removing comments and essentially preventing some readers from even making comments – exactly what has happened to you.

Welcome aboard the good ship Sceptic.

Something else is happening behind the scenes with this non-pandemic and the media are doing the government’s bidding.

133705 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Lili, 2, #1237 of 1791 🔗

Right about the Islamist attacks… they obviously couldn’t ignore the decapitation of poor Lee Rigby a few years ago but then went and did something even worse: dismissed it, said people shouldn’t really bother with it, and called it, I quote, just a “mundane” event. The Guardian is off limits for a few friends of mine since that.

133433 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 14, #1238 of 1791 🔗

Killing the many to save the few.

So many cancer deaths, heart problems, suicides, and the elderly murdered within their own care homes.

To save, well who exactly? Because nobody is dying with or of covid any more.

So 500 people are dying of cancer a day, 180 from heart disease & heart attacks, 20 from suicides (up 100% this year so far…).

These are real deaths, real consequences of the people in charge who have chosen this course of action. So it’s a cull.

More, much more, is on its way…

133462 ▶▶ BobT, replying to Arnie, 9, #1239 of 1791 🔗

The UK spends about 500million a year on cancer research. I reckon if we spent Boris’ 100 billion ‘moonshot’ money (200 times as much) on this we could probably cure cancer.

133807 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to BobT, #1240 of 1791 🔗

They don’t want to cure cancer. Treatment is more profitable.

133437 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, #1241 of 1791 🔗

The Rhondda Cynon Taf council leader (Andrew Morgan) said that the lockdown is not due to increased testing; the number of positives per amount of tests is increasing. I suppose (if this is true) it is down to the tests picking up other coronaviruses like cold, flu etc. But any other ideas as this point is being used to dismiss what he calls “Facebook experts”? There is a HUGE amount of scepticism being expressed on the Council’s Facebook page. As with Caerphilly, it looks like just about every councillor is going along with this insanity.

133456 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Londo Mollari, 4, #1242 of 1791 🔗

Someone should ask how many tests were actually symptomatic and how many cycles the tests are running at

133470 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #1243 of 1791 🔗

The PCR test won’t give you false positives because of other viruses.

They may however be changing the population they’re sampling by changing the rules about who should get tests. And the prevalence may be going up a bit although it’s no cause for alarm. Let’s see what the ONS survey says, I think they come out on Fridays.

133442 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 3, #1244 of 1791 🔗

Video: Bill Gates Pushes Global Vaccination, Says Covid Conspiracy Theories Are “So Crazy”

133453 ▶▶ leggy, replying to 2 pence, 14, #1245 of 1791 🔗


133473 ▶▶ DRW, replying to 2 pence, 5, #1246 of 1791 🔗

The 55 polio vax, 76 flu vax and 09 pandemrix vax are not conspiracy theories, rushed mass vaccination has not gone well as a fact.

133491 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to 2 pence, 3, #1247 of 1791 🔗

If they’re so crazy and it’s just a handful of nut jobs pushing these ideas, why has all of Silicon Valley been co-opted to censor everything that doesn’t fit the WHO narrative? That would be the same WHO that Gates funds.

133450 Bella, replying to Bella, 24, #1248 of 1791 🔗

I am what might be called a ‘soft conspiracy theorist’. i.e. I believe there is more to this than rank incompetence but I don’t believe we are being ruled by lizards or The Illuminati. But if Johnson introduces a curfew (you can go to work but you can’t play) can anyone deny then that this is an exercise in social engineering? I don’t believe they are unaware of the work of Gupta, Levitt, Wittkowski, Lee, I.Cummins et al so why would they introduce more severe measures even when an ‘epidemic’ (if there ever was one) has passed? There has to be a more sinister reason surely?

133458 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Bella, -10, #1249 of 1791 🔗

“ruled by lizards or The Illuminati”

Oh dear. If you dig in you always find Ashkenazi Jews behind the anti-European evil.

133495 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Bella, 4, #1250 of 1791 🔗

This quote from the German politician Helmut Schmidt (Chancellor 1974-82) seems particularly relevant now:

‘Die Dummheit von Regierungen sollte niemals unterschätzt werden’.

The stupidity of governments should never be underestimated.

133571 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Bella, 7, #1251 of 1791 🔗

There is clearly a lot of social engineering going on, and pet projects being rushed through without any public scrutiny. I can’t see how anyone can deny there is a huge power grab underway by the state, big pharma and US tech giants.

Conspiracy theorist is just a term used to silence anyone who disagrees with the establishment (until the truth is revealed). Many of us have known a digital health passport will be brought in somehow, the government have pretty much admitted it unofficially now. The mandatory vaccination is pretty much a given and has been since March – it’s just about conditioning the public to make them submissive and desperate for it.

133585 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, 2, #1252 of 1791 🔗

Seems to be a lot of road-shutting being done too, under the guise of social distancing, but we are not stupid and know it is part of the zero carbon agenda – hence why Extinction Rebellion get away with so much..

133650 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Carrie, 4, #1253 of 1791 🔗

The majority of the population continue to kid themselves the measures are temporary. These people will be the first to moan about the temporary measures becoming permanent – especially the motorists.

The general population seem to have very narrow vision and don’t see the bigger picture, they need to be alert to how the establishment scheme and get their way. Local authorities and government departments have targets to meet under UN agendas 2021 & 2030.

133454 Nic, replying to Nic, 15, #1254 of 1791 🔗

Iv got to ask the question ,if we lock down in october for like last ,time 3 and a half months that takes us to january. Then what.?
Surely johnson must be insane to even think about this as a solution , will the government give Grant’s and furlough employees from shut businesses.
If not then there will.be unrest this time.
I have just written to my Mp voicing my concerns.
Please everybody do the same johnson must be stopped I seriously think he is insane and must be removed immediately and sectioned for our and his own good.

133489 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Nic, 3, #1255 of 1791 🔗

There will be no easing till April. It would look silly to ease off in the middle of Winter.

133572 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Nic, 1, #1256 of 1791 🔗

Seems shutting business is now the choice of your local council and won’t be able to be blamed on Central Government. In addition they have changed the compensation rules so you can have a business shut without a penny paid back to you for being shut. This is despite it being legally impossible to prove that your business presents a serious and imminent danger of Covid transmission, which is the only reason that justifies these stupid “Covid secure” premises.

133614 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nic, 1, #1257 of 1791 🔗

There are 2 explanations.The government have collectively lost their mind and believe in defeating Covid at all costs.
The second is that they are being controlled by the same groups who are also coordinating the response in every other western nation.
It doesn’t end well either way

133641 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1258 of 1791 🔗

Likely the second, with government incompetence as an extra…
I always thought Boris a bit of an oaf, but his behaviour/decisions recently have had a malicious undertone, which I had not seen before.
Hancock is clearly under the thumb of Gates and that Junkermann woman..

133455 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1259 of 1791 🔗


 A very interesting thread of a person working on a paper describing why the best strategy is to have the young infected. Lockdown will only increase the deaths of the vulnerable. You can read it in the second link but in the first link you have many interesting comments about this interesting paper being prepared.

133465 ▶▶ Nic, replying to swedenborg, 10, #1261 of 1791 🔗

Exactly what the swedish guy said who is in charge of their strategy
He kept the schools open knowing the virus would circulate there but with few or no symptons.
A good way of getting towards herd immunity with no risk.
In this country a single sniffle leads to the school closing pathetic.

133752 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to swedenborg, #1262 of 1791 🔗

And also what Malcolm Kendrick has been arguing in his recent post:

A way to control COVID-19 (for now)


133466 swedenborg, 8, #1263 of 1791 🔗


 Dangers of SD?
Individual preventive social distancing during an epidemic may have negative population-level outcomes “Our results suggest that one needs to be careful when targeting behavioural changes as they could potentially worsen the epidemic outcome. Furthermore, network structure crucially influences the way that individual-level measures impact the epidemic at the population level. These findings highlight the importance of careful analysis of preventive measures in epidemic models.”

133474 Nic, replying to Nic, 59, #1264 of 1791 🔗

I work in hospitality, I dont think I could mentally take another 3 month lockdown, I live on my own and the loneliness was intense.
As well as the possibility of loosing my business it was the worse 3 months of my life.
I’m worried they will do it again
All I want to do is be able to earn a living and have the odd night out with my mates.
I’m sure I’m not the only person who feels this way.

133475 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nic, 13, #1265 of 1791 🔗

If a second lockdown is accepted then we have truly lost.

133500 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 21, #1266 of 1791 🔗

No, if you say that we have truly list, that’s when it happens.

133551 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 10, #1267 of 1791 🔗

I admire your optimism Annie, and of course truth is on our side.
But what use is the truth if nobody believes in it? If we become the only
country in Europe with a second lockdown and it’s just as meekly accepted
as much as the first, even with all the extra criminal economic and social hardship, then our cause is completely finished. If that will not convince the majority then nothing will. And that leaves an open road to techno-tyranny just so they can “feel safe”. Makes me want to cry.

133593 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 3, #1268 of 1791 🔗

Are YOU going to accept it meekly?
I’m not.

133604 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 1, #1269 of 1791 🔗

I won’t either. But we’re still just a minority and if the majority do want a police state, then they’re getting it alright.

133478 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nic, 28, #1270 of 1791 🔗

You’re not Nic. I also have my own shop. I am getting really angry about this now, the psychological game-playing is disgusting. Lost three months’ worth of trade that I will never recover.

133480 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Nic, 6, #1271 of 1791 🔗

Your not the only person who feels like you do. It is all so very desperate. I am really low today as the 7th month begins since my family have been locked out of my fathers care home. 6 months of trying to support him through locked double glazed patio doors. So depressing to see him deteriorating. I feel so angry about your business. Let’s keep supporting each other on here.

133485 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nic, 7, #1272 of 1791 🔗

Nope, stay strong

133486 ▶▶ Will, replying to Nic, 14, #1273 of 1791 🔗

They are playing politics, upping the ante so they can have their saviour of the nation moment and hope the questions around clearing the decks into care homes will disappear…

133490 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Will, 5, #1274 of 1791 🔗

But what or when will be the saviour of the nation moment? Completion of a high-tech police state?

133508 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to DRW, 7, #1275 of 1791 🔗

Set up by who? Dido Harding? The idea the government and civil service of this country would be competent enough to organise anything, beyond the opening of an envelope, is highly questionable.

133529 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Will, 6, #1276 of 1791 🔗

Chris Grayling will be put in overall charge, then we will all be saved.

133558 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1277 of 1791 🔗

Ha ha that gave me a much needed chuckle!

133579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1278 of 1791 🔗

Beer out of the nose time…

133563 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Will, 3, #1279 of 1791 🔗

You’re probably right but I’m just really uncomfortable with the way it’s going in terms of T&T which will become test passports and then vaccine passports.

133565 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Will, 4, #1280 of 1791 🔗

Government yes, SAGE yes, civil service, not this time. Nothing suggests any of these policies are driven out of central Whitehall departments, if they were they would simply not be what they currently are. I understand others might want to link the civil service with the Government, but its my sense that it’s being bypassed in the same way that parliament currently is.

133527 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Will, 1, #1281 of 1791 🔗

I hope it is that simple, I doubt it.

Agenda for change

133494 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Nic, 15, #1282 of 1791 🔗

Our government should never have to power to do this to you, it’s inhuman; they are evil in my opinion, the road to hell etc..

133566 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to tonys, 2, #1283 of 1791 🔗

^^^totally agree

133501 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Nic, 12, #1284 of 1791 🔗

I know how you feel, I’m extremely lucky my job is in the public sector so relatively secure, however I know dance teachers who being self employed literally lost any viable income overnight in March and were still having to pay rent on their dance studio. I’m not sure how easy it would be for them to survive another national lockdown.

Like you all I want to be able to do is earn money to do what I love which is dance, see friends and look after my ponies. I need the freedom of life not being shut away from others. Especially when there’s no evidence it makes any difference.

133514 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 11, #1285 of 1791 🔗

Agree with you. I work in museums and heritage, our jobs are already in danger; another lockdown will finish us off.

Not to mention that I don’t think I can put up with the crap in my neighbourhood which has seen increases in drug use and domestics.

Like you all I want is to live my life, surely there are others in the same boat.

133609 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #1286 of 1791 🔗

Another lockdown will finish the job the first one did and totally destroy the economy.We are on a knife edge now and I’m not sure we will survive anyway.It just reeks of a scorched earth policy to destroy so they can rebuild.

133633 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1287 of 1791 🔗

Rebuild = zero carbon

133702 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1288 of 1791 🔗

Its appalling how many people don’t seem to see how this is destroying lives and the economy on a Carthaginian scale.

What will it take for them to wake up?

133540 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Nic, 7, #1289 of 1791 🔗

Self pity erodes the soul. Who are these people anyway, who take our rights away?
You are much stronger than you can yet imagine.

133599 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Kate, 3, #1290 of 1791 🔗

Well said, Kate.
Don’t go on moaning and moaning and saying we’re finished. Tnat’s exactly what THEY want. What we want is to finish THEM off.

133606 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Nic, 9, #1291 of 1791 🔗

This is going to sound a bit counter-intuitive, but has any thought been given to zoom meetings for sceptics?

The Academy of Ideas has run events on Zoom that have worked really well. Especially if we do get a second lockdown, or as good as, then regular Zoom events could be good.

Thought would have to be given to how structured we wanted them to be. What works well for groups I’m in is a formal talk and discussion to start with (sometimes even recorded) followed by an off the record open chat afterwards.

Obviously, those who post here under pseudonyms would need to be careful not to out themselves by accident!

But what do people think? A sceptics group able to interact (more) naturally could really complement the boards, and give some like-minded social contact.

133634 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Ovis, 1, #1292 of 1791 🔗

I’d be up for that, it’d be great to actually talk with you all. Maybe Toby could also do a few and bring in guests for Q&A.

133658 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Nic, 2, #1293 of 1791 🔗

I deeply sympathise, Nic. I live alone and lockdown was wretched for me too. I was on my own almost the whole time for months. Hang in there.

133479 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 27, #1294 of 1791 🔗

I went to Seattle yesterday with the family (We live in Yakima, which is about 2 hours away, and were there for a Dr. appointment).

It was astonishing. Nearly 100% mask compliance. Virtually everyone in a mask. I saw tons of individuals in their cars, driving alone, wearing masks. I maybe saw 1 or 2 people walking around outside without masks on. People riding bikes, scooters, walking … people who didn’t come within 20 feet of another human being. All wearing masks.

We moved away from Seattle because it is insane , and not just with respect to CV19. But I pointed out to my wife… if masks work even a little bit, CV19 should be nonexistent in Seattle. Of course, Seattle is just the same as everywhere else. No sudden drops or anything like that. Cases go up and down in direct proportion with testing. I will be shocked if anyone ever studies and publicizes the obvious fact that CV19 numbers really don’t change at all based on mask usage.

While in Seattle, I did my usual thing where I put a bandanna around my neck and ignored it. Nobody said anything to me. We went to a greek restaurant (which was empty) and sat down to eat. Nobody wore masks, and the guy didn’t say a word. We had a very nice chat. I also went to a coffee shop and into a marine supply store to grab some netting. I’m not surprised about the restaurant and marine store, but was pleasantly surprised by the friendliness of the ladies in the coffee shop.

I get the impression that these are all people who do exactly what the government says without even thinking. If the governor declared the emergency over today, they’d all take off the masks and go back to normal without a second thought. I think that’s what amazes me the most.

133498 ▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, 9, #1295 of 1791 🔗

As we’ve said before, it’s a fetish. Or good luck charm. Wear a face nappy and Death won’t recognise you, so you won’t die. Like wearing a crucifix to keep the devil away.Except that I much prefer the crucifix, because it doesn’t obliterate you as a human being, and it very possibly does keep the devil away, which the Covimask most definitely does not.
The really foul thing, as we’ve also said many times, is that nappy wearers want to force one on you to keep them safe, while wearing one themselves to keep themselves safe. Not you safe, or they wouldn’t be wearing it in the stupid circumstances you describe so well.
How much money, labour, material and energy is being wasted on producing billions of these devilish rags? The mind boggles.

133521 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to annie, 5, #1296 of 1791 🔗

I was at work today a member of staff walking towards me, I was not sure (I could not recognised them by eyes alone) if it was the person I needed to speak to or not.

I had to email instead.

What a sick world we live in.

133533 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to annie, 5, #1297 of 1791 🔗

FWIW, I wear a crucifix… both of my kids do, too. Not to keep the devil away, though. At a baseball game a while back, a kid asked my 8 year old why he wears the necklace, and he said “because I’m a Christian.” (i.e. it’s a reminder not a magical talisman).

Funny aside – I had a conversation with a very liberal guy a while back, and he pretty much agreed with me that masks are useless. But he said “it’s good as a virtue signal, though, and if it helps people feel better I’m all for it.” I was really amused by the way he used “virtue signal” as a positive thing. Told my wife, and she just said “yup.”

133577 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to RyanM, 7, #1298 of 1791 🔗

Virtue signalling has become an obsession on social media. Bossy, sanctimonious, hypocritical women, and I am sorry it is nearly all women, banging on with their bossy, sanctimonious hypocritical opinions.

133483 swedenborg, 10, #1299 of 1791 🔗


CDC estimated deaths from C-19 vs annual influenza, United States, children ages 0-17:

COVID19 92
Flu 2018/19 477
Flu 2017/18 643
Flu 2016/17 251
Flu 2015/16 268
Flu 2014/15 803

 In this crazy world you get sacked in Ireland at HSE if you compare C-19 to flu and censorship in social media if you “belittle” C-19 comparing it with flu when in reality flu is the killer in the children

133492 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #1300 of 1791 🔗

Victoria, Aus. Gets worse.


“Victorian Government Pushes New Bill to Detain ‘Conspiracy Theorists,’ Anti-Lockdown Protesters, and Families”

Where are the human right organisations?

133518 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Basics, 6, #1301 of 1791 🔗

Showing their true colours. I.e. that they’re just establishment puppets in reality.

133554 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Basics, 4, #1302 of 1791 🔗

The are just globalist organisations pushing the usual UN agendas – they are completely complicit in this fraud and devastation it will cause especially in poor countries with young populations.

All UK charities have shown their true colours over the past 6 months, most explicitly support harsh lockdowns, and plead for public public money rather than senior management taking pay cuts.

133596 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #1303 of 1791 🔗

I see it is called the ‘Omnibus’ bill – maybe we had better not use that name for our new party (suggested recently as a possibility on here)

133493 DThom, replying to DThom, 14, #1304 of 1791 🔗

Can’t believe the bed wetting letters in the DM today!

“It dismays me to see others blatantly ignoring common sense and carrying on as normal”
“We have to pull together. Christmas is only one day. Do your bit – it’s not a massive ask”

Can these people not think for themselves

133497 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to DThom, 3, #1305 of 1791 🔗

Shocking omission of the one that says “Few other countries have handled the pandemic any better than the Government”.

133569 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to arfurmo, 7, #1306 of 1791 🔗

To be fair, apart from Sweden every country, so far, has been equally shite.

133630 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Will, 2, #1307 of 1791 🔗

Well some have been less shite. Belarus, Japan and parts of the USA have never had lockdowns and some African ones, esp. Tanzania, have done their best to carry on with HCQ and BCG vaccine use.

133537 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DThom, 9, #1308 of 1791 🔗

‘Christmas is only one day’ – tell that to all the people whose last Christmas this may likely be due to illness or age, and all their relatives…

133549 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to DThom, 6, #1309 of 1791 🔗

I wonder though how many such comments are genuine. Same goes for BBC HYS etc. 77th Brigade out in force? Who knows.

133591 ▶▶ annie, replying to DThom, 3, #1310 of 1791 🔗

‘Christmas is only one day.’
Sad, sad, sad person.

133603 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to annie, 1, #1311 of 1791 🔗

How dare he/she speak for all of us

133499 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1312 of 1791 🔗

So if/when the UK becomes the only European country to lock down for a second time… will people continue to accept it? Surely even the most zealous of zealots will start to question the strategy?

133509 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1313 of 1791 🔗

Errr …What evidence is there of that??

133525 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, 7, #1314 of 1791 🔗

None. Just trying to make myself feel better on a very depressing day.

133512 ▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1315 of 1791 🔗

You’d be suprised, they’d love another virtue party over “saving Granny”

133616 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to DRW, 2, #1316 of 1791 🔗

Aye, any excuse to stand at their front doors clapping like demented seals again and adorn the windows with rainbows. Tragic.

133502 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 4, #1317 of 1791 🔗

Perhaps the penny has dropped.


Carl also presenting tomorrow and Ivor nearing a million views.

133522 ▶▶ anon, replying to hotrod, 1, #1318 of 1791 🔗

Alergic to the bbc but i hope the cat is out of the bag

133524 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to hotrod, 4, #1319 of 1791 🔗

“But we must must beat the virus”. What in Boris’s fevered mind does that mean? He is willing to lockdown to ‘beat’ it by the sounds of things. Mutually assured destruction arrangement with covid 19?

133532 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1320 of 1791 🔗

Kind of funny that anyone still thinks of “beating” the virus at all. Should be obvious enough by looking at the various countries and the same pattern, everywhere… nothing you do “beats” the virus. Question is whether and when it does its thing. Seems Boris (et.al. including the various US governors), if they wish to keep up the farce, should view now as the time to do a victory lap and claim the credit for “beating” the virus. I believe that’s what Cuomo is doing…

133541 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to RyanM, 4, #1321 of 1791 🔗

Yes, I find that alarming. Suggests he is more likely to switch to a New Zealand approach than a Swedish one .

133567 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #1322 of 1791 🔗

Fortunately NZ’s approach is not looking so clever and the electorate are turning on the woman with the teeth.

133587 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Will, 2, #1323 of 1791 🔗

Tell us more, please! Last I heard the citizens were overwhelmingly buying it, so would be great to know if things are shifting now

133542 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to hotrod, 6, #1324 of 1791 🔗

The issue is not a second lockdown but all the hellish restrictions which essentially re-create the same conditions. BJ can grandly declare no second lockdown but tighten the screws further anyway. Curfews, bans on meetings (6 becomes 4?) etc etc what’s the difference. Crucially, no hint of any easing. Just endless obsession with positive test results. And with testing becoming unavailable a reason to keep tightening things ‘in the dark’.

Sorry not to share the optimistic interpretation.

133560 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to jhfreedom, #1325 of 1791 🔗

Yes, as far as I know they have given no indication of how long any of this (eg rule of 6) will be for or what the criteria are to end it..

133595 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to jhfreedom, #1326 of 1791 🔗

Local lockdown and other measures relieve the government of the burden of supporting those who are put into local lockdowns.

133538 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to anon, #1328 of 1791 🔗

Good stuff, but I doubt many on here will know what a crisis actor is.

133545 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1329 of 1791 🔗


(this lady is also featured in the satire video, amusingly)

133544 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to anon, #1330 of 1791 🔗

That gave me a much-needed laugh!

133539 Bart Simpson, 3, #1331 of 1791 🔗

Stumbled upon this on YouTube and whilst its The Ten Commandements, Cecil B. DeMille’s words beginning 8.54 is eerily prophetic and very relevant today:


133548 Liam, replying to Liam, 29, #1332 of 1791 🔗

Having had my customary hour and a bit down the pub earlier, it’s clear as day to me that Harry hod carrier and Steve scaffolder and their families don’t think much of all this. Good for them.

If there is Hope it definitely lies in the proles.

133550 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Liam, 15, #1333 of 1791 🔗

Said it from the start. This lockdown is for the Blue Peter classes.

133553 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Liam, 20, #1334 of 1791 🔗

Don’t pay too much attention to the propaganda. All the media are creating a false reality and that includes the supposed polls which show “support” for government policy.

Real people are not happy with this.
We need to do our own reality checks.

133588 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Kate, 2, #1335 of 1791 🔗


133574 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Liam, 10, #1336 of 1791 🔗

The hod carriers and scaffolders might do less well in an IQ test than the scientists and medics (honourable exceptions notwithstanding), but they have far more common sense.

133578 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Edward, 8, #1337 of 1791 🔗

I grew up with lads like that and by God I’d trust them more than a thousand Oxbridge graduates to tell me where the sun rises every morning.

133584 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Liam, #1338 of 1791 🔗

The proles always let you down, Orwell knew that.

133589 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Recusant, #1339 of 1791 🔗

He also said the proles would not rebel of their own accord

133929 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1340 of 1791 🔗

They need to be angrier proles

133555 Nic, replying to Nic, 11, #1341 of 1791 🔗

Does anybody really believe that masks work.
Red hot today shopping I was the only person unmasked many wore masks even in the park including many young people.most of the masks looked like sweaty ,dirty rags absolutely disgusting no doubt riddled with germs surely no health expert can claim they are healthy to wear,

133586 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nic, 2, #1342 of 1791 🔗

And then they drop them on the ground for other people to tidy away.

133607 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Nic, 3, #1343 of 1791 🔗

I’d agree. I’m in London for a few days break just now and I’ve lost count of the number of people I’ve seen wearing allegedly single use masks that look like they’ve worn them for a month. There’s also a huge number of people who take the thing off at the end of their journey or when leaving a shop and shove it in their pocket no doubt to be worn again later. Gross. IF and it’s a big if, cases are rising then I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if it’s due to the masks.
Also, don’t get me started on the very high number of people wearing the bloody things in the street and in parks etc. They genuinely don’t seem to mind wearing them. 🤷‍♀️

133687 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #1344 of 1791 🔗

I’ve lost count of people I see cycling and running wearing the bloody thing which makes me want to shout at them for putting their health at risk of a hypoxic or hypercapnia attack.

133559 Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 19, #1345 of 1791 🔗

Just watching Bbc news.Is Covid the only sickness where healthy people queue to see whether they are sick

133568 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #1346 of 1791 🔗

The BBC need a comments section and then they could see how people really feel about them and their ‘news’

133590 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1347 of 1791 🔗

Was this bit of news on the ‘news’?

‘Barbados to remove Queen as head of state and declare republic’ – from Simon Dolan’s Twitter..

133688 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Carrie, #1348 of 1791 🔗

Multiple coups

133872 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, #1349 of 1791 🔗

No, a lot of Trump bashing followed that segment.Couldnt take anymore

133714 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1350 of 1791 🔗

Unfortunately, people need the partake in this nonsense to be allowed to work and put food on the table.


133573 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 34, #1351 of 1791 🔗

#NorthEast trending on Twitter – apparently rumour has it that the entire region is set to go under local lockdown from Friday, with a ban on mixing from other households and a 10pm curfew on social venues. This will affect half a million people.

I haven’t felt this dreadful since back in April. I honestly thought we were dragging ourselves out of this monumental pile of bullshit. I honestly thought that the government wouldn’t dare impose any more restrictions of any kind, social or economic, because they are just so deeply destructive and their costs vastly outweigh their (non-existent) benefits. I feel like we’re travelling through a tunnel and we see the light at the end but it’s just another train passing by, plunging us into darkness again once it’s passed. We’re heading for a second lockdown in all but name and this one will be so much more unbearable than the first because we are so worn down as it is and it will straddle winter, the darkest, coldest and most miserable season of the year. My sanity is quite literally hanging by a thread, the only thing keeping it intact is the case presented by people like Toby, Simon Dolan, James Delingpole, Ivor Cummings, Prof Carl Henegan, Prof Karol Sikora, Denise Welch, Prof Michael Levitt and countless others who are speaking truth to power and showing up this utter shitshow for what it really is. I am just so furious at the total lack of awareness of the deeply destructive consequences of lockdown.

133602 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Poppy, 10, #1352 of 1791 🔗

I agree, the second lockdown is coming, being rolled out by region and Christmas probably cancelled. Right now I feel the worst I’ve been throughout this whole shit.

133624 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to DRW, 1, #1353 of 1791 🔗

How will Christmas be cancelled, mine won’t be

133632 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1354 of 1791 🔗

No carol services, visiting Santa, pantomimes etc, and if your immediate family consists of a total more than 6 (because you don’t usually live together) then you will not be able to have a family celebration. My family totals 7, spread over 4 separate households so we are stuffed…

133649 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Carrie, 5, #1355 of 1791 🔗

Can’t see the police knocking on the door on Christmas day, we’ll be more than 6, stuff them. The more compliant we are the more restrictions they will introduce, politicians dont become politicians to give power AWAY

133654 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1356 of 1791 🔗

Correct , they can fuck right off … I will not give in to this crap

133828 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to janis pennance, 4, #1357 of 1791 🔗

What is worrying me about this site is that everyone (or most everyone) seems to be in despair – which is exactly where they want you. If you are in despair you are saying you are helpless and you won’t resist. These sites are monitored and that’s what they want, low morale. If you feel that bad then resist, they can only kill you. Despair is not the way to live your life. If you feel so bad then rise up and take a few of the fuckers with you. I’m personally much more optimistic, I don’t think they can pull this off.

133912 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bella, #1358 of 1791 🔗

I’m personally much more optimistic, I don’t think they can pull this off.

Yes, I’m with you on that.

133662 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1359 of 1791 🔗

That was my thought. It has been absolutely amazing to me how many people adhere to these nonsensical rules. In my county, the sheriff released a statement saying that they are not going to even attempt to enforce rules about that sort of thing, and I live in a very liberal state (Washington). If you want to have Christmas, you have Christmas.

133696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1360 of 1791 🔗

they’ll be a lot of doors to knock on-the Police will need Santa’s help!

133669 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Dan Clarke, #1361 of 1791 🔗

I’ve said this here before, so sorry to bang on. My sister and her husband are complete zealots and they live with my mother. That makes (with my nephew) a household of 4. We (2 adults + 2 kids) will not be allowed in without a serious row. And then there’s my brother and his wife and my mother’s 72 year old, single brother. Christmas is as good as cancelled. We’ll be doing it at home (and we’ll be 7, because my brother and his wife and my wife’s aunt will join us).

But that means that my mum will miss out on one of the last christmases that hold magic for her grandchildren (my two are 8 and 6).

133615 ▶▶ Biggles, replying to Poppy, 1, #1362 of 1791 🔗

I’ve thought for a while that it will be our turn soon. There were rumours about Middlesbrough a few weeks ago and my town (Darlington) has gone from 2 cases to 24 in a month.

133618 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Biggles, 5, #1363 of 1791 🔗

Just like the foot and mouth culling, start with local/regional areas and gradually increase them so they cover the whole country. And Pantsdown ‘advised’ that too.

133621 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to DRW, 4, #1364 of 1791 🔗

Now its Pantsdown and Cummings, two lunatics instead of one

133617 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Poppy, 5, #1365 of 1791 🔗

Maybe people will just ignore it, even better refuse to go to work, if they want a curfew, have a People’s lockdown on everything and ruin the country for good.

133625 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Poppy, 11, #1366 of 1791 🔗

It may not feel like it, but we on the sceptical side are in a much, much stronger position psychologically to deal with the Dark Winter ahead than are the brainwashed. They will suffer far more terribly than us, especially in the long term.

133631 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Richard O, 7, #1367 of 1791 🔗

If that’s the case then hopefully more people will wake up. It sounds terrible but only when more people really suffer will there be any real resistance to this lunacy.

133645 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Poppy, 7, #1368 of 1791 🔗

All those who are in the Covid Cult have no future. We are in for the long haul to defeat them, but I am certain that the future of humanity lies within us, especially those who are younger. I’m nearly 50 so have had a good innings already, and am not in the least bit afraid of not making it through this should it come to that.

133655 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Richard O, 10, #1369 of 1791 🔗

Maybe psychologically but my travel business has been decimated, I did not get a grant, nor furlough. Time is running out fast and I am now struggling to make ends meet. I have a mortgage, 3 children and no real income since March. Savings nearly gone. No end in sight and really getting worried now.

133664 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Sarigan, 9, #1370 of 1791 🔗

So sorry to hear that. This is what makes me so sick. People like yourself suffering so terribly for no good reason and lockdown zealots still acting like your pain is justified, ‘if it saves one life’. I am young and still have many years ahead of me so I have more than enough time to ensure that those who have done this to you are brought to justice.

133915 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Poppy, 1, #1371 of 1791 🔗

Yep, vengeance. Not a particularly attractive concept, but it’s how I feel.

Thos who have done this must be held to account – including those MPS who just sat back and said nothing.

133919 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 1, #1372 of 1791 🔗

Oh, and all of them responsible for this lot are sat on full pay, with no immediate threat to their comfort. In fact, a lot of them are doing very, very well out of it all.

133681 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1373 of 1791 🔗

Very sad to hear what’s happening to you. My job is on the line and if we have another lockdown that will finish us off and render huge swathes of us jobless and on the dole.

If this doesn’t wake up my colleagues who are still asleep and falling for this Covid nonsense then I despair,

133697 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1374 of 1791 🔗

This is the heartbreaking and unreported toll of the Covid State. If it gets to the point that you are unable to put food on the table for your kids, what then? I think the plan is to force people into destitution with their only means of income being a subsistence level state handout. With all the strings attached of course, i.e. no jab no pay. You have the knowledge that this is coming so can start making preparations now for trying to find an alternative.

I am expecting redundancy soon (or being sacked for refusing to work in a “Covid Safe” office), but as I am single and live alone have some savings to fall back on. These funds will not last indefinitely of course, so exactly the same dilemma will befall me eventually, albeit with minimal consequences compared to your situation.

133707 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1375 of 1791 🔗

Hi Offlands, really sorry to read this. My business hasn’t been as badly affected as yours, but the latest pronouncement by the PM has got me very worried.

Not sure if you saw an article in the Daily Express today about the High Court ruling that insurers should pay “business interruption” claims for loss of trade caused by COVID. I’m going to be looking into this further … kh

133756 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to kh1485, #1376 of 1791 🔗

Sadly I checked this at the beginning of it all and my insurance does not include business interruption cover other than property damage.

133918 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, #1377 of 1791 🔗

Really sorry about that. We were told the same thing but it might be worth another look:


133870 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1378 of 1791 🔗

I’m in the same boat.Nearly six months off back to work last week and down well over half of takings.No end in sight so maybe 2 months until bankruptcy.Im not alone so systematic failure of banks is on the cards

133914 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Sarigan, #1379 of 1791 🔗

So sorry to hear this Offlands. Stories like this, and from the care homes and of the isolated, make me so angry and sad.

Hang on in there. Words like this aren’t of any practical help, but maybe remember that there are a great many people out there who feel for people like you and wish you well.

133665 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Poppy, #1380 of 1791 🔗

This sounds like a full lockdown to me if you can only mix with people from your own household you cant go out and socialise or really do anything.

133692 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, #1381 of 1791 🔗

North East deliberately so that it will encompass Denise Welch’s home area?

133750 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Poppy, #1382 of 1791 🔗

so last orders at 9.45? Back to the mad old days of the last minute rush to get a drink

133826 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Poppy, #1383 of 1791 🔗

If that is the case then it’s time to revolt. Don’t accept it

133580 Liam, replying to Liam, 9, #1384 of 1791 🔗

Bit of defeatism in the air today so a bit of Tolkien uplift.

“In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face……

The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.

“Old fool!” he said. “Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!” And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the city, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of war nor of wizardry, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns, in dark Mindolluin’s sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the north wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.”

133582 ▶▶ annie, replying to Liam, 10, #1385 of 1791 🔗

One of my favourite passages from my favourite book.
And it’s all about keeping on the fight against evil even if it seems hopeless, because it is the right thing to do.

133583 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to annie, 1, #1386 of 1791 🔗


133592 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Liam, 6, #1387 of 1791 🔗

Strange…I actually re-read Tolkien during this “pandemic”… for the same reason. It does feel like the culmination of a malevolence that has been growing for forty years. But now it is out and obvious. And Tolkien does not seem melodramatic…but rather appropriate.

133601 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kate, 3, #1388 of 1791 🔗

Nice one Liam.

I don’t think we’ll get a pitched battle against the dark side though. More like cleansing the Shire. 🙂

133610 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JohnB, 2, #1389 of 1791 🔗

The harrowing of the shire didn’t work out so well for Saruman the White though, did it?

133791 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Kate, #1390 of 1791 🔗

Try V for Vendetta film on for size Kate, you might find it, interesting 😉

133814 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to B Boru, 1, #1391 of 1791 🔗

Thanks for the reminder I have been meaning to track that one down for a while! I rather like the Guido Fawkes mask look!

133612 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Liam, 1, #1392 of 1791 🔗

The sad thing is that the brainwashed majority actually want this evil to protect them though.

133788 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Liam, 2, #1393 of 1791 🔗

Sons of Gondor!
Of Rohan!
My Brothers.

I see in your eyes, the same fear that would take the heart of me.

A day may come,
when the courage of Men fails,
when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship


An hour of wolves and shattered shields,
when the Age of Men comes crashing down.



By all that you hold dear on this good earth,
I bid you…

133594 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 9, #1394 of 1791 🔗

Please someone help me, I can’t take much more of this and am struggling to stay sane. I love my husband but just had a big row about all this. How can he accept what is happening and excuse all the diktats and crap thrown our way. What is the problem with wearing a mask for a short while in the shops?!! for gods sake what does it take to make him see the bigger picture. I am a coiled spring about to explode and feel like I am going mad.

133678 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #1395 of 1791 🔗

Can you see if you can get him to read some of the articles that Carl Heneghan has written? As he’s an epidemiologist perhaps your husband might be open to his expert viewpoint. Take a look at http://www.cebm.net .

Does he or you know anyone who has actually had covid so close family or friends? I wonder if not if this could be a way in for you to get him to see that all of what is going on isn’t necessary.

133786 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to ambwozere, 1, #1396 of 1791 🔗

Thank you for your reply. When I try to get him to read some decent articles on this he just says he is not interested and that there are always going to be differing opinions. He is a carer and a couple of the people he looked after died in April, they both had under lying conditions however. You just feel lonely as a sceptic at times, I know this from coming on here for the last few months. Never mind, there are many people far worse off than me.

133732 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #1397 of 1791 🔗

I am so sorry for your frustration on this.

It might be fear on his part, perhaps. When I am out with men they usually get a bit stroppy about my non-compliance, because they think that if a confrontational situation arises I will sit back and (being the man) they will have to face it on my behalf.

It surprises me how many people do accept the new regime, so your husband is not unusual.

You could try just letting him come to terms with the “new normal” in his own time. I don’t think you can rush him on this. Changing their attitude is a huge step for someone to take because the implications are so huge.

133775 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Kate, #1398 of 1791 🔗

Thank you for your reply. There are so many people who have been taken in by all this. I suppose it is harder when the person closest to you doesn’t understand where you are coming from and friction ensues. A few deep breaths required and maybe a couple of wines!.

133781 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 2, #1399 of 1791 🔗

PS. I have not yet had any support from a boyfriend. The most they do is tolerate my behaviour. Often they criticise it. Men do not seem to be any more likely to take the lead in opposing this than women despite the stereotypes.

What you need to look at is your own reaction.

You are very stressed, and you need to look after your own emotional health. So it is natural that you would turn to your husband for support

At the moment he cannot provide that. You are astute enough to see what is going on and it is natural to feel shock, but you do not want to let this damage your marriage.

You need to find some other person you can discuss this with – do you have a girlfriend who can help you talk about this? I have a good woman friend, and we talk often about our fear of what is going on and what we can see. Without her I would be in a bad way and would feel I was going a bit mad.

Just one person who can see your reality makes a huge difference, but it does not need to be your husband yet.

133784 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Mrs issedoff, #1400 of 1791 🔗

please see new reply of mine and good luck

133806 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Mrs issedoff, 2, #1401 of 1791 🔗

Can you turn it to your advantage at least? If he thinks it’s no big deal he can do all the shopping for everything you need. While my husband is totally on the same page, he doesn’t like to talk about or hear me rant about it. Some days I don’t say much because I can’t come up with anything to talk about that hasn’t been tarnished by this insanity. However, we do things together that are non-Covid related and each cope as best we can in our own way. I can’t tolerate a mask for more than 5 minutes, so he does all the shopping now. It’s not like he thinks masks are OK, but he can handle it so he has stepped up in this area and that makes me grateful. Thankfully my best friend is suffering in the same way I am and so usually once a week we have a big old rant together. I highly recommend it and it takes the pressure off my husband. If you can find another person to rant with and then keep things with your husband neutral, it may help your relationship. I do understand your frustration and feel for you! This has been tough on many relationships.

133843 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #1402 of 1791 🔗

Thanks Lisa. I will take your advice and that from Kate and Ambwozere. Lovely to get some support from like minded people.

133600 Dave #KBF, 1, #1403 of 1791 🔗

I am not your human guinea pig!

Only 12 minutes and 4 seconds, worth a watch

133611 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1404 of 1791 🔗

A brain-freeze of a WHO comment.

“Dr Mike Ryan on why we should prevent as many #COVID19 cases as possible.

“When we say that the vast majority of people have a mild illness and recover, that is true, but what we cannot say at the moment is what are the potential long-term impacts of having had that infection”

Why can you not say? Why?
– is it ok if I wonder about the long term impacts to global health causes by warpspeed experimental vaccines?

133622 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Basics, #1405 of 1791 🔗

The guy’s insane

133635 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 5, #1406 of 1791 🔗

This has been the problem throughout. This _might_ be the most catastrophically transmissible and deadly virus humankind has ever encountered. The fact that, so far, it doesn’t seem to be is no proof that it isn’t, so we’d better @#%& up the whole world, just in case.

133672 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to matt, 2, #1407 of 1791 🔗

And heaven help us when some disease comes along that is a true danger to humanity if this is the reaction to something potentially not life threatening to the majority.

133731 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to ambwozere, #1408 of 1791 🔗

Yes exactly. The boy cries wolf.

133619 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 5, #1409 of 1791 🔗

PLEASE let this be the start………we need some hope!


133637 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to T. Prince, #1410 of 1791 🔗

Hope so..

133657 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to T. Prince, 1, #1411 of 1791 🔗

Yep, great video. Put a link to this in here earlier today. Sky new Australia, at least the ones I have seen, put our news presenters to shame.

133735 ▶▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to Rabbit, #1412 of 1791 🔗

Sorry to re-post but not easy scrolling through 100’s of comments!!

133638 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1413 of 1791 🔗

Apologies if something similar has been posted already but I’d urge everyone to contact their MPs RE: BoJo’s refusal to rule out a second lockdown. This is the email I sent if anyone would like to use the template – it’s not perfect as I knocked it up as I was going along:

Dear [MP],

Following my previous emails on this subject, I am highly concerned today at the Prime Minister’s refusal to rule out a second lockdown.

A second national lockdown would be absolutely devastating to the UK’s economy, in a year when the economy is already suffering significant hardship. Hundreds of thousands of people will be made at further risk of losing their jobs; millions will have life saving treatments for cancer and other illnesses postponed even further; and the mental health of many will suffer with another prolonged period of isolation from others. Furthermore, these are by no means the only negative effects that will be realised.

Therefore, I urge you to contact the Prime Minister as a matter of urgency and call on him to guarantee no second national lockdown will be enacted.

I look forward to your prompt response.

133647 ▶▶ DRW, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1414 of 1791 🔗

They’ll be sneakier with this one, it won’t be sold as a national, just simultaneous local/regional ones.

133670 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to DRW, 1, #1415 of 1791 🔗

That is true. If I get a response from my MP (ha!) I’ll make sure to mention this.

133907 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to nocheesegromit, #1416 of 1791 🔗

Rule it in, rule it out, shake it all about. All political promises are worthless, sorry.

133640 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1417 of 1791 🔗

Again apologies if something similar has been posted – I created a petition against a second lockdown a few weeks ago but only received one signatory. If 4 of you wouldn’t mind signing this that’d be great – of course BoJo will fob us off as he has with the previous petitions but I am genuinely feeling sick about this. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/549862/sponsors/new?token=eOaRic1t8mi3fVtzguDK

133651 ▶▶ matt, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1418 of 1791 🔗

Done, because it’s important. Although I’m increasingly sceptical about the point of these petitions.

133652 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1419 of 1791 🔗


133663 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Rabbit, 2, #1420 of 1791 🔗

Me too …

133666 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1421 of 1791 🔗

Done it

133668 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1422 of 1791 🔗

Thank you all – the petition is now being checked. I’ll reupload it again when it’s accepting more signatures. I agree with you Matt but I am struggling to think of ways to keep our voice heard.

133646 RyanM, replying to RyanM, #1423 of 1791 🔗

I took a screen-shot of the Wall Street Journal’s home-page this afternoon, but I don’t know how to put it in this comment. Noteworthy is the fact that there was only one article having anything to do with CV19, and this is it:


133700 ▶▶ anon, replying to RyanM, 1, #1424 of 1791 🔗

Try catbox.moe

133701 ▶▶ anon, replying to RyanM, 1, #1425 of 1791 🔗

Or archive.is

133648 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #1426 of 1791 🔗

Mr Johnson said: “I don’t want a second national lockdown – I think it would be completely wrong for this country and we are going to do everything in our power to prevent it.

You talk as if someone else is going to do this; simply say you won’t do it.

133656 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1427 of 1791 🔗

As a lawyer, I can say that he’s … kind of talking like a lawyer.

Today, I got an email from someone who was asking about a typo in a legal document. I initially typed “… it will not cause any problems,” and then changed it to “… it should not cause any problems.”

Not because I am not confident in my analysis, but because I am keenly aware of the fact that there are no guarantees in life.

But politicians should not talk like lawyers. If they are going to qualify their language, they should make it absolutely clear what their criteria are. The problem with guys like Boris is that their rules and decisions seem to be arbitrary.

133660 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1428 of 1791 🔗

Local authorities will be probably ‘encouraged’ to lockdown again so the fat bastard can say it wasn’t him.

133682 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1429 of 1791 🔗

Interesting way to express it – implies it is not him who will be making the decision..

133734 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1430 of 1791 🔗

Johnson doesn’t give a flying fuck about anyone other than himself. His record speaks for itself. Right now the only thing that matters is that he continues to be PM. The rest of us can burn in hell for eternity if that is what it takes to get what he wants.

133742 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard O, 4, #1431 of 1791 🔗

Yes. I don’t know about forever – I suspect he’ll be bored of it by next summer and want to move onto the after dinner speech circuit (assuming people are allowed to have dinner by then, or anybody can afford the fees to have him turn up at their cave). But basically yes.

133746 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to matt, 3, #1432 of 1791 🔗

That angle didn’t occur to me! He is so shallow that he might actually be rather bored of being the figurehead for a techno-fascist coup responsible for the complete destruction of an advanced industrial nation.

Let’s pledge an oath to ensure that he will get rather bored of awaiting execution for treason.

133749 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard O, 1, #1433 of 1791 🔗

I pledge to do whatever I can to ensure this

133898 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, #1434 of 1791 🔗

Oh, I don’t know, why pollute the earth with him for a moment longer than necessary?

133659 Dan Clarke, 6, #1435 of 1791 🔗

MSM are keeping this alive, Johnson is weak and sucked in by it, they are on ‘someone’s’ payroll

133661 redbirdpete, 17, #1436 of 1791 🔗

People seem to be talking about this is as if this is some sort of polite political debate. It is not. It is a coup. It has to be stopped NOW. Or and, I say this deliberately and regardless of your colour or ethnicity, you have all the freedom of a n—-r on a Virginian plantation.

133667 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1437 of 1791 🔗

Sorry if covered below. What is a ‘name hand’?

Edinburgh will get the chance to see one of the country’s most famous planes as it soars over the capital tomorrow.

On Thursday (September 17), the ‘NHS Spitfire’ will make its way around the UK with a host of fly-overs at different hospitals, to thank the service for their work during the pandemic.

The war-time plane has been specially decorated in NHS art, with the words ‘THANK U NHS’ painted boldly across the wings.

Scots were also given the chance to get involved last week by nominating someone to have their name hand painted onto the aircraft.

According to the campaign, the aim is to lift the spirits of those across the UK, whilst also thanking the hospitals, communities and individuals who have been at the forefront of getting the country through the pandemic.

Yeah wtf.

Credit edinburghlive go and read more if you can stand it. They tell you the spitfire was a reconaisance plane and “didn’t carry weapons”. Kind of woke or snoflake.

133680 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Basics, 19, #1438 of 1791 🔗

Never thought I’d want to shoot a Spitfire down. Tell my friend who has been given three months to live because her symptoms were not investigated in April and she now has terminal oesophageal cancer just how marvellous the NHS has been these last 6 months. Christmas is definitely cancelled for her two teenage children as their mother is unlikely to make it that long.

133695 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 11, #1439 of 1791 🔗

I had a owel cancer test in February and was told i need another in 6 months time. Let’s see (counts on fingers) So I called in September and told I could have n \appointment in March 2021.

This doesn’t actually bother me, I’m not even a footnote in time. But how can we call such a service ‘Our NHS’?

133693 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 9, #1440 of 1791 🔗

Have they painted on the plane the names of all the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and grandparents killed in care homes and hospitals??

133850 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to stefarm, #1441 of 1791 🔗

Gonna need a bigger plane.

133718 ▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 2, #1442 of 1791 🔗

next level psyops right there


133745 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, #1443 of 1791 🔗

It’s a big round warm ball feeling growing bigger … it actually has me laughing out loud at this story. It is such high lunacy, and a complete, as you say, psy-op. I can hear the kranky’s grate sternly virtue signalling “they are flying to honour all those wonderful tiktok dancers and gagged nhs workers across oor proud land.”

6 hospitals for every covid patient in Scotland at the mo.

133760 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 10, #1444 of 1791 🔗


133763 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 4, #1445 of 1791 🔗

They should go all the way and paint it in full Luftwaffe trim.

133825 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Basics, 4, #1446 of 1791 🔗

Just yuk. It is actually a disgusting thing to take the self-sacrifice of one generation and use it for the glorification of another.

133833 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1447 of 1791 🔗

It is a very special bonding across the generations, or more correctly I feel a cultural appropriation by one ideology from a national spirit that ought to be respected as special but clearly isn’t.

133906 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Basics, #1448 of 1791 🔗

This American photoreconnaissance pilot was no snowflake, unarmed and alone all the way to Berlin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie3SrjLlcUY

133671 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 26, #1449 of 1791 🔗

Bojo says a 2nd national lockdown would be a disaster which on past performance has to mean one is imminent. I imagine he will save face by ensuring we have so many local lockdowns that it will be a national lockdown in all but name.

I feel utter despair. Although more people seem to think it’s all a load of rubbish most still prefer to “go along to get along”. I’m so sick of friends saying “oh I agree it’s rubbish but if it makes other people feel better I’ll go along. What’s the harm?” apart from the fact that “the harm” is irrrearable damage to the entire fabric of our national life, Liberty, health and character, since when was it my duty to amend my behaviour because of other people’s fear or belief? On that basis we might as well have said “Al Qaeda are a small group of extremists but if we all dress like islamists and pretend to observe Islamic codes those very few extremists will feel more comfortable and stop exploding themselves”.

133675 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1450 of 1791 🔗

So if it’s a disaster why on earth would you , as the man in charge, do it? I get the impression Big Brother Boris would imprison you if you objected to his taste in bubble gum

133679 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to redbirdpete, 3, #1451 of 1791 🔗

Because you have been paid a load of money by the World Bank as was offered to (and turned down by) the president of Belarus?

133684 ▶▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Carrie, #1452 of 1791 🔗

Well, there is that. But all I want is someone to weld up the rust in my Saab.

133691 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to redbirdpete, 7, #1453 of 1791 🔗

He talks about it as if he has no say in the matter. He only has to look at Sweden and man up. This all boils down to not wanting to be blamed for a single death: the precautionary principle in over drive. He doesn’t seem to realise his goose is cooked anyway and a change of tack could be his only hope. He’s like a fat rabbit in a truck’s headlights.

133704 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1454 of 1791 🔗

Even formerly reliable and semi-intelligent conservative pundits have lost their minds of late. I don’t expect the arguments to end any time soon; if we could agree that government mandates should end, then the rest of us would be free to ignore these stupid fucking bedwetters… but apparently that’s too much to ask.


133726 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1455 of 1791 🔗

I’m imagining Boris as a rabbit now!!!

133897 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, #1456 of 1791 🔗

Diesn’t take much effort.

133683 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 12, #1457 of 1791 🔗

This government is far more of a real extremist threat than Al Quaeda has ever been.

133694 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to RickH, 3, #1458 of 1791 🔗

I agree. Telling that their own people – the sceptics particularly -are treated more like the enemy within than islamists ever were.

133676 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #1459 of 1791 🔗
133689 ▶▶ RickH, replying to PastImperfect, 9, #1460 of 1791 🔗

But has anyone found an effective treatment for an out-of-control Tory government?

133712 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to RickH, -1, #1461 of 1791 🔗

Ha Ha….
No not yet, but evidence so far shows out of control leftie leadership around the world makes things ten fold worse, except in communist china

133721 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Major Panic, 3, #1462 of 1791 🔗

Dream on; it’s probably better than being awake under an actual dictatorship of the right. 🙂

133865 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, #1463 of 1791 🔗

I don’t think it feels any different for anyone under these dictatorships

133677 Nic, replying to Nic, 9, #1464 of 1791 🔗

Someone ,a journalist a person who has a high profile must start demanding to know how long they intend to keep going with these insane lockdowns?
The millions of jobs lost ,lack of education cancer deaths etc but know one ever does .
They must be questioned and brought to account.

133713 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Nic, 5, #1465 of 1791 🔗

I have come to the opinoion that the even worse prodicited disaster than the 200,000 excess cancer deaths is the mental and societal damage being done. Human beings are pack animals, we need frequent personal and societal contacts even if it is your old lady sayng ‘If you are going to wear that horrible shirt I’m not going to the party with you’.

The counter to that is of course ‘does my bum look big in this’ which only one bent on suicide would answer ‘Yes, you look like the back end of a bus’.

133715 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Nic, 9, #1466 of 1791 🔗

Allison Pearson in the Telegraph has been on twitter asking how the rest of Europe is opening up yet the UK is shutting down again.

Some journalists are on the case now.

133754 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to ambwozere, 1, #1467 of 1791 🔗

Good, we need MSM to actually start questioning this.

133690 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1468 of 1791 🔗

DM now reporting the lockdown affecting the whole of the North East region.

133703 ▶▶ Anthony, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1469 of 1791 🔗

Crazy, just looked at the NHS data for Newcastle Hospitals Trust