2020-09-18

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/09/18/latest-news-138/
Published2020-09-18T01:22:24
Last updated2020-09-18T10:42:07
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:06
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135523 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 13, #1 of 1680 🔗

No, you’re not first.

135533 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #2 of 1680 🔗

Damned close, though!

135550 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 30, #3 of 1680 🔗

I wake up in despair every morning with with the terrible damage being done to our country by the continuing Covid restrictions.

The are so many reputable Doctors and professors who have been talking out about the lockdown, Dr John Lee, . (Dr John Lee is a former professor of pathology and NHS consultant pathologist.) in the Spectator, Professor Karol Sikora, Professor Carl Heneghan, The former scientific advisor at Pfizer, Dr Mike Yeadon
Dr Mike Yeadon: ‘Government are using a Covid-19 test with undeclared false positive rates.’

The former scientific advisor at Pfizer, Dr Mike Yeadon was interview by Julia Hartley Brewer on Talk Radio yesterday – says it all
The interview is online

135648 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 32, #4 of 1680 🔗

This does not matter one little bit..People have made their mind up..It’s the Plague, end off!! And anybody that disagrees is a conspiracy theorist, anti masker, covid non believer…I now stopped watching TV as this morning Hankcock was on BBC telling us that second wave is coming in 2 weeks, clear the hospitals, it will be worst than ever. And the presenters just nodded, no questions , no challenge? I sometimes regret even waking up

135882 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Thomas_E, 16, #5 of 1680 🔗

Hancock and Johnson are guilty of mass murder and should be dealt with accordingly.

153888 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Rowan, #6 of 1680 🔗

They would likely plead ‘Just following orders’. I know that was not accepted as a valid defence at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials, now, as we are one of the ‘Exceptional Regimes’, it would be sufficient to get the cases thrown out, without even the necessity of the perps naming who they took orders from.
Britain now remands people who are not indicted, in Maximum Security hellhouses like Belmarsh, at the behest of the US requesting their extradition, for exposing War Crimes, whilst accepting the brushing under the carpet of US and British War Crimes. Free Julian Assange! The case will continue in it’s 4th (and final?) week at the Old Bailey tomorrow, so if you are a Londoner or within striking distance, join the Demo outside the Old Bailey from 09:00 Monday 28 September.

135735 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 14, #7 of 1680 🔗

Interesting how lockdown advocates wake up in despair at getting the virus while lockdown skeptics wake up in despair of the lockdown. Lots of despair going around…

135887 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 18, #8 of 1680 🔗

My despair is brought about by the braindead masses who still can’t see that Johnson and Hancock deserve to be swinging from the end of a rope.

136028 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #9 of 1680 🔗

It seems to want mass death and doom.. why?

136562 ▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to David Grimbleby, 9, #10 of 1680 🔗

Under normal circumstances governments, when there is a catastrophe looming, do everything they can to avoid mass panic. Here, they have deliberately created panic.

153897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to petgor, #11 of 1680 🔗

That is because they have a NWO Agenda to push, under cover of the ‘dire emergency’ that has been ‘created’ and then magnified through the tame MSM.

153857 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #12 of 1680 🔗

One of those doctors speaking out was handcuffed and arrested yesterday at Trafalgar Square. Will the Medical Establishment come out in his support, or condemn him with their indifference, like the NUJ has with Julian Assange?

136707 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #13 of 1680 🔗

20,000 in care homes did not die of Covid-19, but they did die of “Covid-19” to create a scary death toll. Cue the whitewash.

Covid-19: utterly false perception of great danger created by letting some old and ill people die

153903 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to PWL, #14 of 1680 🔗

Or rather, deliberately creating the circs in which they were highly likely to die. Our ‘Leaders’ are soul-sold Sociopaths, paying Lucifer for the power and wealth they have gained in the deal with OUR lives and freedoms. As they say, ‘So mote it be’.

135525 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 39, #15 of 1680 🔗

David Aaronovitch is saying about sceptics what I would expect him to say about sceptics. He reflects the views of the British deep state, just like he always has on a rnage of issues, including Iraq and Weapons of Mass Destruction.

135526 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Londo Mollari, 47, #16 of 1680 🔗

Time once was when I would have paid attention to the opinions of this man.

Now he joins the chorus of irrelevant windbags vomiting lies in defence of a broken and failing system.

135552 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Londo Mollari, 29, #17 of 1680 🔗

As with all these commentators, I bet if his income was dependent on a fully functioning economy, he would not be saying this.

135579 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to kh1485, 12, #18 of 1680 🔗

It’s the same as all these journalists attacking working from home a few weeks back – how many of them traipse into an office every day?

135580 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 19, #19 of 1680 🔗

Exactly. He’s OK -bet he has no mortgage, lives in a lovely house in a nice part of London or in the shires, has savings and investments. If everything collapsed tomorrow, he’ll still be OK so he doesn’t care.

135582 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #20 of 1680 🔗

Yes, typical of that type: advocate for the masses that which they do not want for themselves.

135588 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 28, #21 of 1680 🔗

He’s no different to the wealthy boomers who still keep on going that we should have lockdown harder and earlier and sundry. They all have the “I’m alright Jack” mentality.

135674 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Bart Simpson, 23, #22 of 1680 🔗

I recognise this type too. They don’t seem to have much imagination to consider what the world might look like when friends, neighbours, relatives, their children are all hugely impacted by this – they lack real empathy whilst telling themselves and others that they care.

136323 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Alison9, 16, #23 of 1680 🔗

Hear hear. I openly identify as a libertarian, which, if you believed the MSM, means I don’t care about anyone else and would leave people to die at the side of the road.

Strange, then, that amongst my family, I am the one shouting out against the excessive damage that will be done to society and those put out of work due to these measures, yet all of my centrist/lefty family members are all lockdown supporters, even when this damage is pointed out to them.

153921 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Ewan Duffy, #24 of 1680 🔗

The Left was once a danger to the Establishment, and so was infiltrated and emasculated. Now the real Left is but a pale shadow of former times.
As for Starmer, Trilateral Commission member and enemy of Corbyn should suffice, as well as his support from the media.
The Left has been nobbled.

136894 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Alison9, 3, #25 of 1680 🔗

Agree. They will say “I’m sorry” when you point out how you or others are struggling but that’s just about it. It’s all crocodile tears

136366 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #26 of 1680 🔗

Don’t fall into giving sweeping statements about particular age demographics. There are plenty of “boomers” and older who strenuously object to any such lockdown, on the basis that we’re responsible adults who don’t wish to spend the limited time we have left locked up at home. We may be in the more vulnerable category, but we’ll take the risk.

136892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lms23, 3, #27 of 1680 🔗

Apologies, the reason why I said “wealthy” boomers is because they’re the ones who I have encountered to be the most rabid lockdownistas and their “concern” for others is only skin deep.

153926 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Lms23, #28 of 1680 🔗

Yep, I’m definitely in that category and agree with you. I’ve been on the last two Demos at Trafalgar Square.

135898 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #29 of 1680 🔗

He won’t necessarily be OK, as he is clearly a collaborator and should be dealt with as such.

135906 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to kh1485, 4, #30 of 1680 🔗

Yes, he probably picks up a nice little cheque from MI5/6. He has been a dead loss for decades.

135850 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Londo Mollari, 7, #31 of 1680 🔗

Aaronovitch

Yep, he’s a scrote of the first water.

135890 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #32 of 1680 🔗

Why expect anything different from a lackey like Aaronovitch?

135527 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 37, #33 of 1680 🔗

Hospitals told to clear beds?
Like clear out anyone who dares not to be suffering from almighty covid and send them packing?
Or maybe just clear off the beds that are sitting empty which could use a good change of the sheets?

I have successfuly avoided any MSM over here in Canada of late but sometimes the crap still squeaks through. I turned on my PC just now and some silly Microsoft news update managed to open on the screen and the messiah “Doctorer” Fauci says that the coming vaccine has to be taken by enough people for it to become efficient.

If it doesn’t work surely the blame can be placed on those who never took it. Boy I can’t wait to be a murderer again next year…unmasked and vaccine free?? He must hang!!

135528 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Eddie, 54, #34 of 1680 🔗

Unsanitised, unchecked, untraced, unmasked, untested and unvaccinated.

My goal in life is now reduced to remaining to be all of the above. In so doing I become a complete social outcast. Good.

135529 ▶▶▶ Rosser, replying to Richard O, 14, #35 of 1680 🔗

Lol! Totally agree, although I do like my hands to be clean!

135532 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Rosser, 32, #36 of 1680 🔗

Not every 5 minutes with toxic chemicals though. A couple of times per day with soap and water is more than enough. As I am living in complete isolation, I make a point of not doing so in order to keep my immune system functioning.

The cretins that follow all the Covid Cult rituals do not have long left. They are desperately ill mentally and will become terminally ill physically within a year or so. All of this will be blamed on us of course. I welcome such criticism from the undead. It means I am still human.

135630 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Richard O, 7, #37 of 1680 🔗

A few years ago we came into contact with a canine superbug. Researching how to keep the place clean, e.g. around dog bowls etc, the best strategy was hot soapy water for face and hands. A dash of bleach on door knobs, but not people or dogs. Simple and effective.

136224 ▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Richard O, 1, #38 of 1680 🔗

Did you write that or did I?

Scary to think you have tapped into my thoughts!

135537 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rosser, 15, #39 of 1680 🔗

1960’s childhood.
Wash before getting dressed. Wash hands after clearing grate and starting coal fire before breakfast.
Wash hands before leaving for school.

(here be dragons)

Wash hands on return home. Wash hands before Tea and before going down the park with mates.
Wash hands on return home and again before bedtime.

“New Normal” ? I don’t think so.

135627 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to karenovirus, 13, #40 of 1680 🔗

70’s childhood, never wash hands, ever. Only in the shower. Fifty years later never wash hands, ever, only in the shower. Never had a sickness bug of any kind. The oil on your skin protects you from the bugs that sink into like a fly stuck in amber from a tree. Washing your hands will leave you open to infection by washing away the oil with toxic chemicals that they say protect you and keep you clean. As ever in the upside down world it’s always the opposite of what they say.

135644 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Biker, 19, #41 of 1680 🔗

Young man [after seeing Churchill leave the bathroom without washing his hands]: At Eton, they taught us to wash our hands after using the toilet.Churchill: At Harrow, they taught us not to piss on our hands.

135759 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 1, #42 of 1680 🔗

Must have been the dragons at school kept me safe and is why I haven’t washed my hair with anything but tap water for thirty years (no complaints from the barber).

153942 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Biker, #43 of 1680 🔗

Yuk.

135869 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to karenovirus, 3, #44 of 1680 🔗

My mum always made us brush our teeth and wash our hands & face before going to bed, apart from the one or two bath nights a week. I think the main reason was we were usually sticky with eating bread & jam. I still follow these routines though I’m not so likely to be sticky.

153937 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to karenovirus, #45 of 1680 🔗

Surely you forgot ‘wash hands after going to the loo’? Before the deliberately spread Covid, I was really disgusted the number of times I saw people coming out of toilet cubicles and not washing their hands. Disgusting.

135581 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rosser, 12, #46 of 1680 🔗

I avoid the gunk at all costs (unless I’m somewhere were there are no toilets or there’s no soap). Soap and water all the way!

135916 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Rosser, 4, #47 of 1680 🔗

Never use sanitiser, it kills the skin’s natural defences. Use mild soap and water as necessary and don’t over do it.

135763 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Richard O, 5, #48 of 1680 🔗

I’m lucky. I’m already a complete social outcast. So no change there.

135929 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #49 of 1680 🔗

Thank the gods for social outcasts, but we need a lot more of them.

135911 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard O, 3, #50 of 1680 🔗

You will not be alone.

136234 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Rowan, 4, #51 of 1680 🔗

Er … then he can’t be a social outcast 🙂

Speaking as one myself, and channelling Marx (Groucho, not Karl), I refuse to join any club that will have me as a member.

135544 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Eddie, 10, #52 of 1680 🔗

No need to clear hospital beds, they are still largely empty. Only emergencies are being treated usually as day patients in my large regional hospital.

A sceptic woman was telling me about the decline in her father’s health following the cancelling of his treatment in March and with no appointment on the horizon.
I told her of newly diagnosed patients going straight to the front of the queue which was perhaps, in retrospect, cruel.

136370 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Eddie, 3, #53 of 1680 🔗

I didn’t think there were that many beds filled that would need clearing again.
The last emptying out of the NHS killed thousands of vulnerable elderly, not to mention all those others with life-threatening illnesses that were untreated because “Covid!!”

136879 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, 3, #54 of 1680 🔗

Yes it’s just government showboating. It’s time though, for hospital managers and other staff to stand up and tell the government to get off their backs. That is unless they’re now hooked on murdering the old and sick.

135531 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #55 of 1680 🔗

Care Home Covid deaths.
Locally we seem to have been spared the worst. About a month into Lockdown an interactive map was published breaking ‘Covid deaths’ down by wards. Most showed one, two or even none.

Four showed ‘spikes’ of five or six Covid deaths which I know took place in three particular Care Homes (out of several dozen in the city). The other spike occurred in a sheltered housing block before Lockdown started.

Residents have also been fortunate in that garden visits have been possible since July and some care homes have made common rooms available as meeting rooms with cramped up cleaning between visits. If ours can do this why can’t others?

o/t. A nanny to two hospital surgeons told me early on that a cousins’ baby died post-natal which was put down as a Covid death but the father in law was ‘someone high in the military’ who made a fuss to have the death redesignated.

135534 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to karenovirus, 11, #56 of 1680 🔗

Death is now political. Such is the way of things in an authoritarian system. The influence of the state reaches beyond the grave.

154287 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Richard O, #57 of 1680 🔗

They will get their comeuppance ‘beyond the grave’, and will bitterly regret their stupidity and the evil path they chose for power and wealth.

154285 ▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to karenovirus, #58 of 1680 🔗

The dirty bas*ards want lots of deaths put down to covid, to keep the fear level up and the draconian measures to ‘save’ (enslave) us coming on thick and fast.

135535 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 17, #59 of 1680 🔗

A Survival Guide For Decent Folk pt 2

(Originally blogged by Inspector Gadget about 10 years ago offering an insider’s advice for decent normal folk when dealing with the Police).

Admit Nothing.
To do anything more than lock you up for more than a few hours we need to prove a case
The easiest route to that is your admission. Without it our case might be a lot weaker, maybe not enough to charge you with.
In any case it is worth finding out exactly how damning the evidence against you is before falling on your sword.
So don’t do the honourable and decent thing and admit what you have done.
Don’t even deny it or try to give your side of the story. Just say nothing.

Keep Your Mouth Shut.
Say as little as possible to us. At the custody office a desk Sergeant will ask you some questions. It is safe to answer these. For the rest, say nothing.

Claim Suicidal Thoughts.
A debatable one this. Claiming to be thinking about topping yourself has several benefits. If you can keep it up, it might just bump up any Compensation payable later.

Always always always Have A Solicitor.
Duh. No brainer. Unless you know 100% that your mate the solicitor does criminal law and is good at it ask for the Duty Solicitor.
They do criminal law and are good at it. Then listen to what the Solicitor says and do it. Their job is to get you off without the cops laying glove on you if at all possible. It is what they get paid for. They are free for you. There is no down side.
Now Decent Folk think it makes them look like they have something to hide if they as for a Solicitor. Irrelevant.

Going into an interview without a Solicitor is like taking a walk in Tottenham with a Rolex.
Bad things are very likely to happen to you.

To be concluded pt 3
Actively Complain About Every Officer And Every Thing They Do

135539 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to karenovirus, 1, #60 of 1680 🔗

This was one of my law school professors (civil procedure, trial practice, a few others)

https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

135542 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, #61 of 1680 🔗

Thanks very much for that RyanM.
I had that on an external hard drive that died on me some years ago and was then unable to find it again.

10,000 Federal Crimes and that was 8 years ago.
🦞 Busted 😜

135536 Rosser, replying to Rosser, 11, #62 of 1680 🔗

That Talk Radio interview with Mike Yeadon is superb.

A to-the-point and concise explainer, and ideal for us to use to help get the message across to non-skeptics in an efficient manner.

Reposting the link for handiness:

https://youtu.be/Ch7wze46md0

135856 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Rosser, 5, #63 of 1680 🔗

Testing is a gravy train. Massive expenditure to frighten people. Last evening I watched the Science and Technology Committee meeting –

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/52ee1eec-a2bf-403d-a27d-7bba077ebfcc

What struck me was the emphasis on testing and the responses (except Carl Heneghan) was that we couldn’t have enough of it. They are far too narrowly focussed and although they are probably quite sincere in their aim to do the best for the country, the outcome if their recommendations are followed will be a massive wave of empire building, massive waste and massive disruption of and intrusion into the lives of ordinary people.

99% of the garbage about Sars-Cov-2/Covid-19 that people are being subject to around the world would disappear if the early treatment with with Hydroxychloroquine were not banned by our dysfunctional ‘governments’.

https://www.facebook.com/CraigKellyMP/videos/313190119942539/

136308 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PastImperfect, 8, #64 of 1680 🔗

Only a tiny proportion might need hydroxychloroquine. Covid-19 is, at a minimum, a 99% scam which is working to further Bill Gates’s depopulation agenda. Whilst those you refer to might just be sincere, those who are directing this fraud are anything but and belong in jail for mass murder. Of course, this includes Johnson and Hancock, but there are many more of similar ilk.

136876 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Rowan, 3, #65 of 1680 🔗

Yes, we both know these things, but mention BG or that the ‘government’ isn’t following the “science” and you are a conspiracy theorist.

I am working on the substance of my original comment with the intention of schooling my MP – and telling him he should vote against renewing the CV Act.

135538 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 3, #66 of 1680 🔗

That McHurly article was great. Forwarded to my pastor.

135560 ▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, 4, #67 of 1680 🔗

I sent it to the two sane clergymen I know. Our rector would die of fear if it were even suggested he should read it.

154299 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to annie, #68 of 1680 🔗

Perhaps your Rector needs a kick up the rectum to wake him up.

135632 ▶▶ Ajb, replying to RyanM, 2, #69 of 1680 🔗

Very good article. Also worth reading are several on the Blogmire – Rob Slane’s thoughts there reassured me some time ago that I wasn’t losing my theological marbles!

135758 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to RyanM, 3, #70 of 1680 🔗

I agree. I am not a Christian but I respect and value people who hold fundamentally good ideas.

154307 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Alethea, #71 of 1680 🔗

I am a Christian, and know that the virus was intentionally weaponised (not to make it more deadly, but to make it spread to humans and be very contagious). There are a number of heavyweight NWO agendas it is set to push forward, including blaming China, and welching on debt as ‘compensation’, leading to increased friction and eventually war, and pushing all manner of domestic and world-wide control measures, including a cashless society, universal vaccinations, ‘track & trace’, with RFID or equivalent (they have the technology to include machine-readable info in the vaccine), the ‘Great Reset’, and arbitrary regulations they can enforce by using a totally unsuitable tool, the PCR test, which was categorically stated by the Nobel Prize-winning inventor Kary Mullis to be unsuitable for diagnostics. That was in relation to HIV/AIDS, but obviously it covers covid as well.
The reason Kary Mullis has not been kicking up a storm about it being used for covid is he (very conveniently for the PTB) ‘contracted’ pneumonia and died in July 2019 (just before the virus was spread, most likely by the US Military contingent to the Wuhan World Military Games two months later).
https://alethonews.com/2020/03/22/wuhan-outbreak-china-demands-an-honest-accounting/ ?

135540 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 21, #72 of 1680 🔗

Earlier in the year, Andy Burnham said (to argue for a longer lockdown in the North West) that the peak of the epidemic appeared to be later in the North than London. The North East appears to be verifying that. So, whilst the lockdown did nothing at all in the south, because the peak was passed, it has artificially delayed some infection in the north, thus creating a ‘second wave’. The ‘second wave’ wasn’t planned as such, but it was expected because that’s what lockdown was bound to do. Even the government scientists clearly know that.

If, as previously stated, the purpose of lockdown was to ‘flatten the curve’ and enable the NHS to cope, I think many of us could see some very short term logic to that as a holding strategy while other provisions were put in place. They should have included the ability to cope with all serious illnesses, not just this one. However, the Nightingale hospitals were created and mothballed, presumably because they had no staff, and patients are now apparently being cleared out of mainstream hospitals again to make way for the ‘second wave’. It seems that nothing has been learned.

Whilst few of us would want to move to a health system that wasn’t free at the point of use, there would appear to be a very strong argument for removing any government involvement in the management of the NHS and enabling it to be run by professionals as a totally separate body. That is apparently how it works in Sweden.

135541 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Caroline Watson, 5, #73 of 1680 🔗

Why would you not want to move to a market health system?

135553 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RyanM, 6, #74 of 1680 🔗

‘The Netherlands have had the top spot in Europe for 5 years in a row thanks to their excellent outcomes, prevention, patient information and patient rights and this is a situation which is likely to continue in the long term.’

https://www.stmarkshospital.org.uk/best-ranking-healthcare-systems-in-europe/

‘The co-op is a microcosm of health care in the Netherlands: a complicated machine with many moving parts, providers working in concert to deliver medical care to their patients. The Netherlands leans on private actors — private insurers, independently employed doctors, privately owned nonprofit hospitals — to provide health care. But it also places strict regulations on the health sector to achieve the goals of affordability and access. That balance of market principles and close government regulation has created a health care system that seems to work well for the Dutch.’

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/1/17/21046874/netherlands-universal-health-insurance-private

135577 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #75 of 1680 🔗

I think a balance is the right answer. For those with chronic conditions a purely market-led system is unlikely to work, because insurers invariably try to avoid anyone who is likely to cost them money. For example, the insurance we have to back up our mortgage specifically excludes critical cover for my wife because of her PKD.

135589 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #76 of 1680 🔗

The health insurance system in Ireland covers pre-existing conditions after a set period (IIRC 5 years of coverage). It is also community rated – you pay the same price regardless of age as long as you took out cover before turning 35.

135592 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #77 of 1680 🔗

That could work, but if you shifted to the system you’d need transitional arrangements for all those who were already over 35.

136330 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #78 of 1680 🔗

When the age 35 sign up limit was introduced, it was preceded by a long notice period advising people to sign up for insurance before the date of introduction, thereby allowing people to do so.

154314 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Andrew Fish, #79 of 1680 🔗

Take a look at the US ‘Heath System’. Horror stories abound, but a fairly recent case I read of was a woman who got her leg caught between a station platform and a train. She had a bone protruding through her skin, but begged people not to call an ambulance because she could not afford it.
Health insurance is prohibitively expensive and often has all sorts of small print ‘exceptions’.

154311 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to RyanM, #80 of 1680 🔗

Basically, we ‘ would you not want to move to a market health system’ because we are not stark raving lunatics, or money-hungry extortionists.
Britain was a world leader with our NHS, built by Socialists after the war. Built for the people, not for profit. The vast majority of Brits want it to stay that way, and those who understand it is being ‘asset stripped’ are furious.
Let those who want a private health system build one up themselves, and not decimate and asset strip our NHS, built up by the people’s taxes since 1948.

135543 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Caroline Watson, 10, #81 of 1680 🔗

London got Covid first because of Heathrow/Gatwick, spreading rapidly because of the underground and general crowding; the Covid, as you say, was already past its worst when lockdown was introduced.
Therefore London is far less likely to have a Second Wave than areas where people were hiding when Covid called.

135631 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to karenovirus, 17, #82 of 1680 🔗

London has herd immunity. Which, like means testing, is the simple answer to a complicated question, and the left hates that, so cancels anyone who uses the term.

Anyway, regardless of political posturing, conspiracy theories or anything else: once other places have herd immunity too, Covid will fade into the background. Lockdowns only slow the process, as Sweden and Peru – in their diametrically opposite ways – both show.

There’s no such thing as a “second wave” of this. There is only the same graph, again and again and again, as the virus enters a new population. When that new population is in the same nation state as a population previously affected, the nation state’s graph looks like the floundering Blond Fatso’s “camel’s hump” analogy.

This, along with the conflation of “case” with “infection”, seems so glaringly obvious, and is being so uniformly ignored by everyone in power, that I am reluctantly starting to veer towards the conspiracy theory end of the spectrum. I don’t buy all that “Bill Gates is a lizard” stuff. But I do think that government is conspiring to obfuscate things, because it realizes that it’s in so deep, it can’t now admit to having been wrong, or the whole political system will disintegrate before its eyes. As far as I’m concerned, I wish it would and I wish it would.

Incidentally, Lionel Shriver today calls government policy “terrorism” on the basis of the definition that terrorism is “using terror to achieve political ends”. I think this is a very useful use of words, and governments should be loudly denounced as terrorist regimes.

135666 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #83 of 1680 🔗

I feel it’s a crime against humanity, though whether it fits into that legal definition I don’t know. Certainly restrictions are disproportionate.

135840 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #84 of 1680 🔗

Yes I should have said “Second Wave” and I moved into the ‘it’s not about a virus’ camp a while back
I’ll check that Lionel Shriver quote later.

136779 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #85 of 1680 🔗

Herd immunity is being criticized by our right wing government as well as the left. It is so dangerous to have no political opposition in Parliament and I think they helps to explain the growth in belief in conspiracy theories

154318 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Sceptical Lefty, #86 of 1680 🔗

Yes, people are all too slowly waking up to the reality of the ‘so-called’ ‘conspiracy theories’ which surround and control us.

154317 ▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #87 of 1680 🔗

Don’t be afraid of accepting ‘conspiracy theories’. they are all too real, and all too prevalent. There is a NWO plan to enslave survivors of their wars and artificially concocted famines and pandemics in a One World Government Gulag.
Check out: ‘ 53 Admitted False Flag Attacks’: https://www.globalresearch.ca/53-admitted-false-flag-attacks/5432931

136343 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #88 of 1680 🔗

The Nightingale hospitals were lacking patients not staff. Indeed you seem to have swallowed large chunks of the official narrative to come up with your pro lockdown theories. Look after the frail and old, while everybody else gets on with life without senseless restrictions is the only sane approach. Johnson’s corrupt government has done neither of these things.

154310 ▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Caroline Watson, #89 of 1680 🔗

The solution was to elect Jeremy Corbyn, who would have protected the NHS. As it is, by massive chicanery and dastardly lying smears which the MSM massively magnified, as well as ‘Security Services’, military ‘Fake News’ set-ups, Foreign interference and backstabbing on a massive scale within the ‘Labour Party’, Jeremy was scuppered and the jerk elected, who despite his copious worthless promises continues to continue the destruction of our NHS, which has been going on at least since Tony Bliar.
Don’t expect any effective fight-back from Bliar Mk. 2, the Trilateral Commission member Starmer.
Save Our NHS!
Indeed it should be headed by professionals, but not by professional businessmen, especially Yanks who only want to carve it up and serve it piecemeal to their fellow US corporations.
It should be owned by the country, and ring-fenced against predatory corporations, domestic and foreign.

135545 karenovirus, 15, #90 of 1680 🔗

From the roundup
Daily Mail ‘how Bolton Hospital only has two Covid patients’.

Overwhelmingly sceptic comments on a wide range of subjects.
Favourite ‘worst voted’
“Terrible news we should get back to full lock down and extend my furlough…”
Response ‘lazy erse get back to work’.

135547 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 42, #91 of 1680 🔗

Oh!……..Is that the same David Aaronovitch who wrote in 2003: “If nothing is eventually found, I – as a supporter of the war – will never believe another thing that I am told by our government, or that of the US ever again. And, more to the point, neither will anyone else.’

Fool me once……… 

154319 ▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Tim Bidie, #92 of 1680 🔗

Excellent! I’d forgotten that.

135548 annie, replying to annie, 18, #93 of 1680 🔗

Aaronovitch has apparently written a book called
Voodoo Histories: the role of Conspiracy Theory in Modern History.
His next book ought to be entitled Voodoo Epidemics.

135871 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to annie, 1, #94 of 1680 🔗

Brilliant

135549 mattghg, 8, #95 of 1680 🔗

This joins the list of reasons I feel vindicated for cancelling my Times subscription.

135551 annie, replying to annie, 6, #96 of 1680 🔗

Can’t read the DT. any. longer because of paywall ( cancelled my subscription when they started publishing cosy articles about how to make your very own face nappy out of an old sock). Just recently I’ve found that I can’t even access comments below an article any more.
But zI can read the headlines, and this one. would have made my mind boggle if it was still capable of doing so:

Exclusive: Test and Trace system could be outsourced to Amazon, secret plans reveal
Anybody got the details?

135570 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to annie, 2, #97 of 1680 🔗

Hi Annie. It says that there are plans to put management of the end-to-end supply chain out to tender and companies such as Amazon and DHL are thought to be likely to have the required logistics expertise

135686 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #98 of 1680 🔗

Don’t like the idea of making Jeff Bezos any richer – he’s already made even bigger profits than usual from this whole episode..

135798 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Carrie, 1, #99 of 1680 🔗

There’s a difference between someone getting richer because they’re manipulating matters to ensure it and someone who’s getting richer simply because they’re well-placed to benefit from a policy they don’t control. Tax matters aside, I have no problem with Amazon – I’ve been a customer since before most people knew they existed, back when they only sold books and used to send you mugs and jenga sets for Christmas as a thank-you for being a customer.

136363 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, 4, #100 of 1680 🔗

It’s worse than that, one of the ancillary aims of the Covid scam was to enrich global capitalists like Bezos, at the expense of small businesses and everybody else of course. I wonder how this became a part of Johnson’s agenda. It smells, just like everything else about our highly corrupt government.

135692 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #101 of 1680 🔗

why not get Amazon to run the whole country and parliament – couldn’t do a worse job surely 🙂

135698 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sue, 2, #102 of 1680 🔗

If they were paying tax that ‘might’ be defensible!

136136 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Carrie, #103 of 1680 🔗

They are paying tax.
Remember tax is paid on profit not turnover.

154322 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Nessimmersion, #104 of 1680 🔗

Corporations have ways and means to avoid the vast majority of taxes.
Just as an example, let’s say you run a Corporation and owe £10 million tax for the year. Would you rather pay the £10 million, or give a £500,000 ‘donation’ to the Tory Party? Should be enough to have the tax people kept off investigating your £150,000 tax offer.
I remember years ago reading that in that particular year, BP had paid less tax than the nurses in one large London hospital. Then there are the ‘Tax Havens’.
But you are likely to read far less about them than about ‘benefits cheats’ in the MSM – I wonder why?

136424 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 2, #105 of 1680 🔗

Member of the Government aren’t paying tax, just look at the Panana Papers.

154321 ▶▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Sue, #106 of 1680 🔗

Give us Jeremy, the guy the PTB couldn’t stand to such a degree they pulled out all the stops to scupper him.
They cannot stand an honest man, especially if he is a fighter for the workers, justice and anti-war.
They fawn over corrupt, bribable or blackmailable scumbags, and ensure they get ‘elected’.

135571 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to annie, 3, #107 of 1680 🔗

It sounds as good an idea as everything else that is going on, indeed I understand they have already recruited Inspector Gadget to make sure it works well.

“But I don’t want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked.
“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Cat: “we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”

135596 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to annie, 1, #109 of 1680 🔗

Something in the Mail as well, but details are thin, a sidebar in the article below

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8745707/Hospitals-warned-clear-beds-brace-rise-coronavirus-patients-TWO-weeks.html

154323 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Strange Days, #110 of 1680 🔗

Maybe they are about to launch another ramped-up (‘mutated’) virus, to keep the scam on the boil. They are perfectly capable of it.

135690 ▶▶ Sue, replying to annie, 1, #111 of 1680 🔗

yes i noticed the comments are now turned off for most articles unless you’re a subscriber. It’s a shame as interesting to read people’s comments until they disintegrate into personal abuse then exit quickly! But I guess it’s challenging times for the papers as revenue is probably reduced with less sales and trying to encourage subscriptions.

135696 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sue, 3, #112 of 1680 🔗

More like they want to reduce the total number of comments in order to reduce the workload for the 77th brigade..

154326 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Sue, #113 of 1680 🔗

I haven’t bought ‘newspapers’ for years (or rather, EXTREMELY infrequently), since I woke up to the truth of 9/11. I used to buy the Guardian about 5 times a week, regularly. I realised it had become just a government propaganda rag, like all the rest. Not even good for wrapping up fish and chips, or for use as toilet paper.

135833 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to annie, 1, #114 of 1680 🔗

Amazon deliver the home-based tests already. Surely one would want people with logistics expertise to do logistics?

154327 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to djaustin, #115 of 1680 🔗

The tests are totally unreliable, and the ‘figures’ can be used to show whatever the government wants them to show.
The PCR test is not suitable for diagnostics, period.

136661 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to annie, #116 of 1680 🔗

They already send out home kits. I had one from them.

135555 maggie may, replying to maggie may, 19, #117 of 1680 🔗

On the subject of immunity when I was a kid in the 50s, it was the norm for us to be trotted round to play with any other kid in the village who had measles, german measles, whooping cough, mumps, whatever else was doing the rounds. The idea being of course that we might catch it and build up our own immunity, there being no vaccinations for these things in those days.

I guess today’s parents would have a fit at the idea of doing such a thing but it was obviously a widespread practice. Anyone else remember such a childhood?

135559 ▶▶ Catherine, replying to maggie may, 7, #118 of 1680 🔗

I’m a 70’s kid but my son is studying WW2 so we watched a bit of ‘How we used to live 1936-54’ this week (a programme made for schools that I watched in primary school). They are repeatedly talking about closing the school because of some illness or other doing the rounds!
I remember having mumps and measles though- and I survived!

154329 ▶▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to Catherine, #119 of 1680 🔗

And no added mercury or aluminium adjuvants! No (or virtually no) autism.

135565 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to maggie may, 9, #120 of 1680 🔗

Yes indeed, chicken pox parties, a sort of if you cannot beat them join them approach. I have been a bit busy to follow all the reports in detail but I think this is to some extent Prof Sunetra Gupta’s argument, during the summer when we are all fit and well and bristling with vitamin D it would have been a fair idea to let people socialise as much as possible and let SARS-Cov2 burn itself out.
In fact I seem to recall that every year some children die as a result of chicken pox and so for children, chicken pox is probably as, if not more, serious than Covid 19.

On the subject of immunity which Toby writes about in today’s newsletter I wonder about the interaction of testing and immunity? When it was stated that a Hong Kong man had caught Covid for a second time it then transpired that this second infection was a different strain of SARS-Cov2 but that the immunity his body had from the first infection had knocked out this second infection. If that is correct it means that with this second infection, he had picked up the virus, his immune system had knocked it out, so he had no disease but the test still picked up a +ve result.
To me that indicates that if you are carrying some immunity you can pick up this virus, your immune system knocks it out but that can still register as a +ve test result.
Which sort of begs the question as to how many of these thousands of +ve results being reported on the news are actually people who were already immune and had ‘zapped’ the virus but that still came up as a +ve test result?
As with much to do with this hoo-haa we are like a mad dog chasing its tail round and round!

135679 ▶▶ Mr Bee, replying to maggie may, 6, #121 of 1680 🔗

I was a child in the 60s & experienced exactly the same. It seems this was the common sense approach to what were deemed ‘normal’ childhood diseases that everyone expected to get, recovery from, develop immunity & move on. If only the same (un) common sense applied today. In addition I don’t know anyone who ended up in hospital or didn’t make a full recovery. Bizarre reactions to a not very deadly illness that’s only dangerous to the elderly, already seriously ill or extremely unlucky few.

154328 ▶▶ Paul Barbara, replying to maggie may, #122 of 1680 🔗

And it worked!

135556 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 15, #123 of 1680 🔗

Telegraph YouTube has a survey, click if you agree
1. Another lockdown 35%

2. The government should be testing more people 19%

3. the government is overreacting keep things as they are 14%

4. We should follow Swedens model 14%

5 I agree with the rule of six 9%

25,000 votes.

I must have missed
6. It’s all a load of overblown nonsense, back to normal asap.

135561 ▶▶ Julian, replying to karenovirus, 11, #124 of 1680 🔗

I would love to hear someone from the UK explain why they wouldn’t want to have followed Sweden, and wouldn’t prefer how things are in Sweden now to how they are in the UK.

135593 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Julian, 17, #125 of 1680 🔗

Admission that they have been duped, had, scammed, swindled, conned….

I don’t wish ill on people but if and when this shit show ends I hope everyone in MSM loses their job, livelihood, possessions, sanity, reputation and life.

135603 ▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to stefarm, 10, #126 of 1680 🔗

And everyone in the government too.

136786 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptical Lefty, replying to HelzBelz, #127 of 1680 🔗

And the so called opposition. There is no-one worth voting for

135557 james cook, replying to james cook, 19, #128 of 1680 🔗

How do we know that Boris was severely ill with Covid? I accept that he had covid, no doubt with unpleasant flu like symptoms, and was hospitalised, and also admitted to ICU. But we dont know that he was severely ill. Being admitted to ICU was precautionary as I understood it (after all he is the prime minister, so why not have him in the most specialised department) – I heard reports at the time that he was in good spirits and chatting with nurses in ICU. Why is there this assumption that he was severely ill?

135594 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to james cook, 19, #129 of 1680 🔗

I have always doubted this, but as they say, never let a crisis go to waste, and how they have milked his so called ‘brush with Covid’, either to justify his response to instill all the restrictions because he knows how bad it is, or worse to excuse him any damaging decisions because he is not himself. Eventually, my bet, will be he will bow out before the proverbial hits the fan, and it will not be deemed cowardly, but that he has never recovered from Covid and is leaving on health grounds.
I actually think he was more likely unwell from nervous exhaustion after Brexit , and certainly did not nearly die as they stated. Leaving hospital five days after nearly dying in ICU, I think not.

135654 ▶▶▶ Tarfu, replying to Nsklent, 5, #130 of 1680 🔗

I actually think he was more likely unwell from nervous exhaustion after Brexit .
Judging by the way the Brexit talks are going, I think he may be due a relapse.

135854 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nsklent, 1, #131 of 1680 🔗

And doing press ups just a few days later too. I reckon it was down to alcoholism.

137015 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #132 of 1680 🔗

I’ve suspected that he isn’t so much tired as hung over.

135865 ▶▶ Ricky R, replying to james cook, 3, #133 of 1680 🔗

Remember when he was admitted to ICU and the whole Boris hating mob on twitter flipped and chanted that “he is a father show him respect”. I expect he likely had mild covid and his trip to hospital was either to promote compliance or because it was good for his image.

135970 ▶▶ Paul Steward, replying to james cook, 6, #134 of 1680 🔗

My partner is a nurse and has worked on ICU, he was always dubious about why BJ was in there and certain an ordinary person wouldn’t have been.

135558 Recusant, 14, #135 of 1680 🔗

You think that disgusting commie thug Aaronovich would have learnt his lesson after the weapons of mass destruction that started his beloved Iraq War turned out to be a chimera. Of course there have to be trade offs, but we should make them not the government.

135563 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 47, #136 of 1680 🔗

two comments from the TELEGRAPH

Joy Christopher
18 Sep 2020 6:48AM
I assure you Covid isn’t a problem for those of us who work in the NHS, the Government response to it is. Only yesterday we had an edict telling us to open up and get more patients back in, which is a struggle as they’ve made us reduce bed capacity and those we have are filling up fast mainly with old folk with non-Covid chest infections and the like. . Today though, we are told clear your beds. What do they want us to do,…throw sick people out to make space?

So when there is no spike in people needing hospitalisation for Covid in 2 weeks will they finally admit they’ve got it wrong and put an end to this hysteria? In the meantime We are already struggling to find enough beds in our hospital for all the poor old people who are actually sick now and the idiots in government are making it worse.
Flag
4Like

Reply

Second Light
18 Sep 2020 6:52AM
I also work in the NHS and agree, in fact I have yet to see or know directly a case of Covid.I only know of radio Cornwall cases.The deaths we will hearvof will bevthose who died from untreated diseases WITH covid.
I have seen untreated disease by the bucket.
Forgot to add that the care homes will need barrier nursing but I bet the staff remain untrained.

Joy Christopher
18 Sep 2020 6:57AM
@Second Light
Agree and btw the 700 bed hospital 5 miles up the road has no Covid patients either . In spite of this no one senior in the NHS seems willing to tell the government the Emperor has no clothes and that we need to stop running around trying to cater for the non existent pandemic and be left to concentrate on treating the genuinely sick .

135572 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 25, #137 of 1680 🔗

The country needs many more of these health professionals speaking out. They have been gagged despite repeated promises to protect whistleblowers.

135576 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #138 of 1680 🔗

Close beds. Open beds. Close beds. Open beds.Close beds. Open beds.Close beds. Open beds.Close beds. Open beds.Close beds. Open beds.Close beds. Open beds.Close beds. Open beds.Close beds. Open beds.Close beds. Open beds.

135585 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 23, #139 of 1680 🔗

These NHS staff should be told that they should break ranks and tell it as they see it. By being silent, they are complicit in the Carthaginian destruction of this country.

136798 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #140 of 1680 🔗

These health professionals are telling it as they see it, but they still believe incompetence and stupidity are the real problems. In time they may come to realise that the suffering and deaths caused by government edicts are wholly intentional.

135564 stewart, replying to stewart, 141, #141 of 1680 🔗

The government is driving our society to a state of collective madness

– We know that COVID is at worst a bit more dangerous than the flu and in any case of minimal risk to people under the age of 65. And yet we are forced to pretend it is the most dangerous threat our country has faced in peacetime.

– We know that masks don’t stop viruses. We all know that touching masks while wearing them, putting them in our pockets, reusing them, all these things make the use of masks a complete farce. And yet we are forced to pretend that if we don’t wear them in shops we are putting the lives of others at risk.

– We know that countries like Spain that have mandated the use of masks in all public settings for several months still have amongst the highest reported infection rates. And yet we are forced to pretend masks contribute to stopping the spread of coronavirus.

– We know lockdowns don’t work (unless they are totally brutal like in Wuhan, and even then we can’t be sure). And yet we are forced to pretend they are a good tool for combating the spread of coronavirus.

– We know that the model produced by Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College was completely wrong. We also know he was wildly wrong in previous epidemics. And yet the government continues to rely on his advice and predictions and we are all forced to accept these predictions as reliable.

– We know Sweden’s strategy has turned out very well – better than us on both health and economic outcomes – contrary to the predictions of many. And yet we are forced to pretend that Sweden got it wrong and we are on the right path.

– We know that most of the countries with the highest covid deaths per million also have some of the strictest anti-COVID measures. And yet we are forced to pretend that anti-COVID measures work and when they don’t they are our fault for not following them strictly enough.

– We know the strategy of lockdowns and suppression has destroyed and continues to destroy large parts of the economy. And yet we are forced to pretend that this is worthwhile.

– We know that the NHS has scaled back its service as a result of the coronavirus. And yet we are forced to pretend that this coronavirus is more dangerous and deserves more attention than cancer, or heart disease or a bunch of other conditions that actually do kill millions of people.

– We know that it takes years to produce a safe and effective vaccine. And yet we are forced to pretend that we can now produce one in months.

– We know that many people who test positive aren’t sick at all. And yet we are forced to pretend that they are and that forcing healthy people into long isolations is going to save lives.

– At first the deaths were tracked. When the deaths all but disappeared the cases were tracked. We are forced to pretend that lots of cases – i.e. positive tests – is as big a problem as lots of deaths.

– We know that a big rise in positive tests has not been accompanied by a similar increase in hospitalisations and deaths. And yet we are forced to pretend that a rise in positive tests is going to result in the hospitals being overwhelmed.

– We know that there are more positive tests because there are more tests being carried out. And yet we are forced to pretend that the increase in positive results is indicative of the spread of the virus.

– More than 6 people can gather in a restaurant, a school, an office. And yet we are forced to pretend that limiting meetings in a private home to 6 or less is going to make a difference.

I could go on. The list is almost endless.

The government is treating us as if we were all completely and utterly stupid.

135575 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 32, #142 of 1680 🔗

Brilliant summary Stewart,
creating confusion by issuing contradictory and pointless instructions is a fascist way of ensuring compliance by a docile population.

135601 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to stewart, 28, #143 of 1680 🔗

I would only challenge the statement that it a ‘bit more dangerous than the flu’.
As flu affects all age groups, you could say that Covid could be considered less of a threat.

136572 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nsklent, 7, #144 of 1680 🔗

There is no real evidence that Sars-cov-2 coronavirus actually exists. Similarly there is no proof that Covid-19 exists as anything other than rebranded influenza or an influenza type illness, that stalk us every winter. Whether or not Covid-19 really exists, it is clear that we are being scammed in an almighty manner.

It’s been apparent from almost day one of this Covid event, that the stage was being set for the arrival of the Covid-19 vaccines. Behind nearly all the frontrunner vaccines you will find the indelible fingerprints of Bill Gates. Cuddly caring Bill is actually a lifelong eugenicist and longtime advocate of global depopulation. This is Gates’s big moment and he isn’t going to waste it. We will allow ourselves to be vaccinated only at very great risk.

137168 ▶▶▶▶ Allen, replying to Rowan, #145 of 1680 🔗

This is accurate. Covid is a fiction- it is no more real than the phony “war on terror.”

135633 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to stewart, 11, #146 of 1680 🔗

Hi Stewart, would you be okay with me using this in a message to my MP asking him to oppose a second lockdown? Probably a waste of time as he strikes me as a bit sycophantic but to give him his due, although a remainer himself, his constituency voted for Brexit and he did support the ERG in opposing Mrs May’s surrender act.

135640 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to maggie may, 7, #147 of 1680 🔗

Please do! Hope it helps.

135915 ▶▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to stewart, 3, #148 of 1680 🔗

Have customised and sent this to my MP (waste of time) and Sir Graham Brady. Thank you

136109 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Cbird, 2, #149 of 1680 🔗

Likewise customised and sent to my useless Guildford MP, Angela Richardson.
Thanks, Stewart.

135705 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to stewart, 4, #150 of 1680 🔗

Thank you, Stewart. Nailed it!

135841 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to stewart, 7, #151 of 1680 🔗

But when you add all that up and come to the conclusion that therefore there must be a ‘reason’ for all that and even surmise what that reason might be, they will still call you a ‘conspiracy theorist’.

Brilliant summation btw.

135885 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 9, #152 of 1680 🔗

It’s that final little step that’s so hard. 🙂

Folk admitting Icke has been largely correct for 25+ years has parallels to lockdown zealots admitting they’ve been wrong.

135969 ▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to JohnB, 5, #153 of 1680 🔗

Not a fan of Icke but you are right. In the broader context he has been correct.

136768 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 2, #154 of 1680 🔗

Hard not to be a fan of Icke, he has got it right consistently and has warned of planned events like Covid-19 for many years. People find it just too hard to accept the truly evil nature of the ruling cabal and so cognitive dissonance is the fallback position.

136765 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, 2, #155 of 1680 🔗

Yes quite so as Icke has had it nailed for years. Hopefully more will wake quickly or it will be too late. This is a fight for our very lives, though even on LS, far too few have grasped the full extent of what is going on.

136544 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to stewart, 5, #156 of 1680 🔗

The government is treating us like cattle that are on their way to the slaughterhouse. Johnson and Hancock are clearly working to further Bill Gates’s depopulation agenda. The major depopulation tool will be the several different Bill Gates’s Covid-19 vaccines, that are being readied for use across the globe.

136581 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to stewart, 2, #157 of 1680 🔗

I don’t think anyone has summed up the whole farce better than this, in a single page of text! I’m going to email it to a few friends.

137166 ▶▶ Allen, replying to stewart, #158 of 1680 🔗

There is no such thing as a “covid death.” That is pure fiction.

135566 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 16, #159 of 1680 🔗

BBC R2 News 06.30
“Government is considering new National short term measures to control a surge in Covid cases.
Extra restrictions on hospitality venues to create a ‘Circuit Break’ in the spread of the disease.”

As the owner of a music venue operating as a bar told me yesterday, ‘We are just about ticking over but if there’s another lockdown I’m f*cked’

Way to go johnson

135569 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 10, #160 of 1680 🔗

Great, another threat of closure. And just as I was already dreading today with the stupid T&T bollocks coming into effect.

135930 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 1, #161 of 1680 🔗

It’s more to do with pub and restaurant closing times at present but with the threat of ‘further measures ‘ if we don’t obey all the new rules (R4 News 11am)

136591 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to karenovirus, 4, #162 of 1680 🔗

They change the rules too quickly to even give time to judge the effect of the last lot of rules they brought in, and the way the data is recorded/reported makes it impossible to make sense of anyway, so basically the government are going to do what they like regardless of how people behave.

If everyone behaved as “model citizens” (by the government’s standards) and this behaviour actually had a significant measurable effect on “case” numbers, they would still likely be panicked into introducing yet more measures by random fluctuations in the test data.

135609 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 6, #163 of 1680 🔗

Short term
Yeah.

135567 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 24, #164 of 1680 🔗

I have been commenting on here for five months that the only game in town is the mass killings in care homes

I regularly ask the question, who decided to move potentially infected patients out of hospitasl into care homes? What advice had that person been given?

If the advice was not to transfer patients and they did it anyway, then that warrants a manslaughter investigation

The dictatorship have run many hares in the past months in order to deflect attention away from Operation Shipman

The thirty pieces of silver pocketers (don’t know, don’t care) at the state broadcaster have duly obliged again today

Today the state has decided that the proles must discuss ‘circuit breakers’

135574 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #165 of 1680 🔗

I have this image in my mind of Matt Lucas in his role as Marjory Doors the host of Fat Fighters

“Everybody, everybody today we are going to talk about circuit breakers, everyone, circuit breakers, circuit breakers”

135967 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 2, #166 of 1680 🔗

A bossy government woman on the 11am news was saying how if the Gov does this then the public will behave like that.
Predicting our behaviour with their models like Pavlovs fucking dog.

135584 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Cecil B, 3, #167 of 1680 🔗

I have in mind many people whose circuits I’d like to see permanently broken.

135568 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #168 of 1680 🔗

I recommended yesterday that sceptics relocate to Texas, bigger than France, great hats…..

A reply mentioned a ‘defunding police’ policy in Austin Texas.

I did a brief search

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/08/13/austin-city-council-cut-police-budget-defund/

Lively public debate concerning police activities and city council activities, local democracy alive and well, and balanced journalism……..

Accountable police, accountable local politicians, good journalism…….?

Compare and contrast etc etc…….

135578 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 32, #170 of 1680 🔗

Coronavirus: Tighter national rules considered by government https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54199642

‘New England-wide measures which could see hospitality businesses forced to shut are being considered by the UK government to try to slow a second surge of coronavirus cases.’

Well that’s it then. Second lockdown all but confirmed. I was aware of rumours circulating of a September/October lockdown and I always thought they were rubbish because I genuinely believed the govt wouldn’t dare try another lockdown, especially one that includes economic restrictions like shutting the hospitality sector, but it appears I was wrong and I retract everything.

We’ve seen graphs, we’ve seen data and evidence. ‘Cases’ are indeed going up but there are now so many scientists who are putting this data into context for us and explaining that a ‘case’ isn’t the same as an infection as well as explaining the PCR cycles which are very high and amplify almost negligible fragments of virus. Deaths are still through the floor. We are getting 4000+ ‘positives’ a day now – when we were getting those levels back in March/April, hundreds of people were dying a day with Covid but daily deaths are still in single figures alongside thousands of ‘cases’ which means that something has changed since March – either ‘cases’ are a much lower proportion of total tests, ‘cases’ are less severe, virus has moved to less vulnerable portion of the population – or a combination of all 3…? Whatever it is we are definitely not in the March situation.

The new lockdown is being dressed up as a ‘circuit breaker’ i.e. a few weeks – now where have we heard that one before? I don’t have very extensive knowledge of restrictions around the world but can anyone here confirm whether any other countries in Europe have gone into a second nationwide lockdown with economic restrictions or is the UK the only basket case…?!

Bella on here was right yesterday – we can’t despair because it’s what they want, they want to browbeat us as part of their relentless war of attrition. Still, what was left of the hospitality sector is utterly finished now. Even if Sunak extends furlough to account for the second lock-up it’s still just more fake money the country doesn’t have and can’t afford. It’s just insane and wilfully destructive. So many people will suffer as a result of this but how many will it take for the public to finally say ‘Enough’?

This is the precautionary principle gone into overdrive. The government will have carried out a very cynical political calculation whereby they have worked out that it less politically costly to implement as many restrictions as possible and then not be blamed for a single Covid death even though many others young and old will die of different things, than it is to take fewer measures and minimise collateral deaths. The average age of a Covid victim is above the average life expectancy. A pandemic so deadly that you have to be very old, very ill, or both for it to kill you – and even then, most vulnerable people survive the damn thing anyway! And I don’t accept emotional blackmail arguments about ‘long Covid’ because a) one can suffer nasty after-effects from other viruses, such as flu and we never made a fuss about those before and b) the effects of ‘long lockdown’ will be FAR worse and more far-reaching.

What are we doing to our society?!

P.S. Probably doesn’t mean anything but I find it interesting that the restaurant banners in the photo at the top of the article read ‘Leave the herd behind’. Subtle nudge message against herd immunity and Swedish strategy? Or am I finally going mad?!

135586 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Poppy, 6, #171 of 1680 🔗

As far as I recall this Covid hoo-haa is unprecedented in that al this current action is being driven by test results and not by death or disease. If it is correct that people with a good immune response who catch and zap the virus can still test +ve, then with all the other testing issues this whole pantomime is like looking for grains of sand on the beach and then panicking when you find one.

The Walrus and the Carpenter
Were walking close at hand;
They wept like anything to see
Such quantities of sand:
If this were only cleared away,’
They said, it would be grand!’

If seven maids with seven mops
Swept it for half a year,
Do you suppose,’ the Walrus said,
That they could get it clear?’
I doubt it,’ said the Carpenter,
And shed a bitter tear.

135683 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 10, #172 of 1680 🔗

Great post (as usual) Poppy!

Am I a cynic thinking that this ‘convenient’ next lockdown is designed to kill off Simon Dolan’s case? It will likely have to be digital, and the government’s argument will be that ‘It is obvious that our actions are proportional to the ‘health crisis’, because, duh, we’ve had to lock down the country for a second time’…

135725 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Carrie, 9, #173 of 1680 🔗

I definitely think it’s very convenient that the case has been delayed for an entire MONTH just because one of the ELEVEN govt lawyers has gone ‘on holiday’. I smell BS – this is a very high-profile constitutional case and with these sorts of things dates are set in the diary months beforehand. Eleven lawyers is also quite a lot, not sure why there couldn’t be a stand in. All very convenient.

136002 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Poppy, 4, #174 of 1680 🔗

Convenient isn’t the word I’d choose.

They are illustrating their power, and showing us how powerless we are in this specific arena. Taking the piss.

135734 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Carrie, 10, #175 of 1680 🔗

I am utterly stupified by the news that Simon’s case has been put back because the government now only have 11 lawyers on the case instead of 12. In 40 odd years of litigation practice I never saw such a thing. To quote one Judge, addressing a solicitor in the Central London County Court, “What? Can’t find a barrister? But there are hundreds of barristers in the Temple looking for work!”

135851 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to charleyfarley, 7, #176 of 1680 🔗

Kind of tells you (as if we needed to be told) where the Court’s institutional sympathies lie on this (ie the opposite to where they lay for the Gina Miller case)

I can picture solemn conversations and agreement about how “irresponsible” it is for people to fight the government on this, now, when they are “dealing with a public health emergency” and when it will “undermine vital public compliance”, with unspoken agreement that delay would be the absolutely responsible thing to do.

135748 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Poppy, 12, #177 of 1680 🔗

Personally I don’t think its the precautionary principle gone into overdrive. This is a coup, old politics is dead and all our MPs are complicit – not necessarily wittingly.

This is a deliberate action to destroy our livelihoods to make us all dependant and cement the government of occupations control. There is nothing precautionary it is intended to cause maximum possible damage to peoples health and livelihoods while keeping people sufficiently scared and compliant that they continue to do nothing.

136079 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Poppy, 6, #178 of 1680 🔗

Wretched government woman on Jeremy Vines show just said
“we want yo keep the pubs open but people just aren’t social distancing”

JV ‘so why shut them at 10pm’

“Well we’re trying to get them out before they’re so drunk they’re falling all over each other, what else can we do?”

So there you have it folks that’s what they think of the plebs and I don’t even use pubs these days.

136271 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Poppy, 2, #179 of 1680 🔗

There have been rumors for months about second wave in October. They planned it in advance. They are creating hysteria about cases now and will do more restrictions in October to prove they are preventing the second wave.
My friend GP has been telling me for months that they had been told to expect second wave in October.

136891 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JulieR, 4, #180 of 1680 🔗

Yes indeed, the second coming of Covid-19 was being announced as early as last March. At the same time we were being told even then, that a dodgy Bill Gates vaccine would be the only way to return to a new abnormality. This is a government that is manifestly corrupt and is clearly acting directly against the interests of the UK people. It needs to be sacked and its members be put on trial for treason.

135583 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 24, #181 of 1680 🔗

A lawyer employed by the dictatorship goes on holiday and thereby extends the life of the dictatorship

Does this lawyer have a name?

Where have they gone on holiday? Will they have to quarantine on their return?

Future Headlines

Case put back as government lawyer tests positive (x11)

Case put back as government lawyer self isolates due to family member with runny nose (x11)

Case put back as government lawyer steps on cracks in pavement (x11)

We are up to 33months without even trying

135605 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Cecil B, 14, #182 of 1680 🔗

Why should the absence of one person be a problem, surely they could still function or have a ‘stand in’. As you have stated, this has now set a precedent for abuse.

135667 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nsklent, 3, #183 of 1680 🔗

They have a team of ELEVEN lawyers on the case apparently

135668 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 4, #184 of 1680 🔗

The next thing we’ll be told was that the lawyers were at Doncaster Racecourse last week!

135587 seeker24, 1, #185 of 1680 🔗

Song suggestion. Captain beaky and his band.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrJO1iVUGRfnEEAARJ3Bwx .;_ylu=Y29sbwMEcG9zAzIEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Nj?p=captain+beaky+and+his+band&fr=yhs-avast-securebrowser&hspart=avast&hsimp=yhs-securebrowser#id=1&vid=eed88b85ad30e16787dd5c8cc42a9248&action=view

135590 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 18, #186 of 1680 🔗

That Aaronovich article vindicated my decision to cancel my Times subscription and move to the Spectator.

The situation in care homes is a scandal but that is an ace in the arsenal of the lockdown sceptic. If it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt what many of us have suspected then it will discredit the death figures even more and and prove that lockdown has been a disaster.

Keep hammering away folks!

135597 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Bart Simpson, 15, #187 of 1680 🔗

Indeed – my bf thinks that if there were to be a proper independent re-assessment of the ONS Covid death stats of people who died strictly OF Covid (unlikely but we can all dream) they could go down to the hundreds. I have always been suspicious of the way deaths have been recorded.

135600 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 9, #188 of 1680 🔗

That was what made me suspicious from the beginning because if the stats were true then we should have been seeing dead bodies all around and read about cemeteries being held up by queues to bury people. But instead they have never happened. Even as early as April, we had a work man come to fix our blinds and he was suspicious about the number of deaths. As he said “I don’t think the numbers are all true.”

135612 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #189 of 1680 🔗

Dr Lee was saying the data was all over the place in The Spectator back at the end of March (26th I think). But you didn’t need to be a doctor in the field to recognise that, even in those far-off days. And the numbers are still garbage.

135616 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 8, #190 of 1680 🔗

Exactly. The numbers were always off from the word go and even I a maths dunce was able to see that there was something wrong with the data.

136169 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Poppy, 1, #191 of 1680 🔗

From the horse’s mouth, re: stats in care homes specifically: “ The inclusion of a death in the published figures as being the result of COVID-19 is based on the statement of the care home provider, which may or may not correspond to a medical diagnosis or test result, or be reflected in the death certification.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/publicationofstatisticsondeathsinvolvingcovid19incarehomesinenglandtransparencystatement

Now bear in mind, as good as a great many of them are, care home staff are not often medically trained, nor are they generally expected to be experts in death certification. Furthermore, their guidance is likely to come from nothing more than a weekly phone call from a GP. Guidance to GPs from NHS England specifically mentions identifying possible covid-19 patients via weekly check-ins “primarily remotely.” The nurse on the KBF video the other day confirms this was her experience.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/03/COVID-19-response-primary-care-and-community-health-support-care-home-residents.pdf

135606 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #192 of 1680 🔗

How can there be any reasonable doubt?
Unless you are a holocaust denier.

135615 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #193 of 1680 🔗

Well you know what the lockdownistas and mask zombies will be like.

135591 Gracie Knoll, replying to Gracie Knoll, 24, #194 of 1680 🔗

I have maintained from day one that this situation is being maintained in order to force through COMPULSORY vaccination and its astronomical bonanza for Big Pharma and Pharma’s political and scientific minions (Hancock, Whitty, Ferguson et. al.)

That is stomach-turning enough.

However, not only is any rushed vaccine likely to be highly dangerous (and would you want a eugenicist psychopath, Bill Gates, to oversee any vaccination programme for YOUR children and grandchildren?):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh_bR0PXgAAhJt5?format=jpg&name=small

– but compulsory vaccination is also the technical mechanism for absolute, totalitarian control of earth’s citizens by the globalist elite. Ultimately, THIS is what we’re up against:

https://steemit.com/covid/@munkle/permanent-injectable-biochip-covid-sensors-near-fda-approval

135624 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Gracie Knoll, 5, #195 of 1680 🔗

Just read the article on the biochip, was looking forward to my weekly breakfast treat of bacon, but now have lost my appetite.
On the matter of the workers in China, I assume Apple, is as per the company, my goodness those poor people, and yet all the woke crowd can rant on about is injustices from centuries ago while using their Apple devices.

136011 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nsklent, 1, #196 of 1680 🔗

A bacon sarnie cures all ills, Nsklent – go for it !

135655 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Gracie Knoll, 12, #197 of 1680 🔗

comment image

135860 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Gracie Knoll, 7, #198 of 1680 🔗

Agree Gracie – even many on LS denounced this view but now it becomes more evident to many people

Vaccines and health passport that can be controlled by government and other parties. Be scared

136152 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Gracie Knoll, 2, #199 of 1680 🔗

Will send the biochip article to my MP.
There is no explanation for 95% of world government’s current lunacy.
All MPs should be made aware of this possibility.

135595 Doctor Y, replying to Doctor Y, 20, #200 of 1680 🔗

Really disappointed by this stance above:
“Thus getting a test ahead of visiting shielding parents and grandparents is exactly when most people should be getting tested, rather than all the time”

No no no no no no no. I thought LS understood that the whole reason we are in this fucking current mess is that we keep testing people who aren’t ill. There is no Good evidence that asymptomatic people spread disease. We absolutely need to stop this charade of testing well people. They need to be told to avoid care homes unless 100% well and take care to be strict with hygiene.
Come on Toby and team, you’re better than this. Yes the government are being imbeciles but 230,000 – 280,000 tests per day is actually plenty if we screened those who wanted a test properly.

135788 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Doctor Y, 3, #201 of 1680 🔗

Isn’t it the inappropriate (dishonest?) interpretation of that testing which is the problem?

I’ve had a random test offer come through the post, and am ignoring it. Much as I hate this shit show, however, if someone asked me to take an instant-result test before entering, say, a care home, I’d struggle to find reasons to refuse.

I may be wrong, but I thought an infected person could spread covid in the days before their full symptoms came out – i.e. before they knew they had it?

135809 ▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to TJN, 5, #202 of 1680 🔗

The bigger studies have shown they can (but rare 1 in 415 in one study, 1 in 350 in another) but both of these people spread it to someone in their own household with extremely close contact like sharing a bed.
Even pre covid, we were advised not to get into beds at care homes…

135917 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Doctor Y, #203 of 1680 🔗

Ok, I didn’t realise it was that small – I thought a person was infectious in the five days after they became infected – that is in the days leading up to their developing symptoms.

I’m genuinely interested in the question as to whether it would have been possible to protect our care homes better. As a society we surely have a duty to protect the vulnerable, especially the vulnerable who can’t make their own choices.

It’s a difficult balance of course – care home residents suffer greatly if they don’t get visits. I hope, but doubt, that one legacy of covid is that we can better a better understanding of this.

In short, is it possible to prevent a serious respiratory virus active in the wider population from getting into care homes? I have an open mind on this.

136015 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TJN, 2, #204 of 1680 🔗

Don’t ignore it, test a papaya ! 🙂

136071 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to JohnB, 1, #205 of 1680 🔗

I was thinking of trying to catch a bat, but I understand it’s illegal.

136230 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to TJN, #206 of 1680 🔗

Is the return address Ipsos MORI? I’ve got my second request today. Of course, I shredded the first one. This one will meet the same fate, along with the offer of a free flu jab from the NHS that I got yesterday.

136267 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to ConstantBees, #207 of 1680 🔗

Letterhead logos along the top are: Department of Health & Social Care; Imperial College London; Ipsos MORI; NHS.

Title: Take part in the Largest COCID-19 testing research study in England.

(As if you’ve won the lottery or something)

135857 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Doctor Y, 2, #208 of 1680 🔗

Yes don’t test BUT apparently you can’t visit your relative in a care home unless you have a negative test.

All testing should be stopped immediately as it is worthless. Imagine if we had to test for flu (as you know more people die from flu than from Covid)

135952 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 6, #209 of 1680 🔗

Testing as a prerequisite for visiting someone in a care home is a form of blackmail as regards the covipass..

136138 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Victoria, 3, #210 of 1680 🔗

This is my thoughts… the argument ‘oh you need a test, you might be a carrier’. Well – as you say, that could easily apply to Flu; could the same argument possibly apply to: diphtheria? tuberculosis? bronchitis?

135598 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 15, #211 of 1680 🔗

Van Morrison has written three new songs protesting against the lockdown and social distancing measures:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54194498

We need more like him to speak out.

135628 ▶▶ Rosser, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #212 of 1680 🔗

Ah that’s it all sorted out now then 😂

135646 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #213 of 1680 🔗

Fantastic! So sick of seeing public figures who turn out to be dupes and bedwetters.

135653 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sally, 13, #214 of 1680 🔗

Exactly. You can bet that a few months’ and years down the line those slebs who were bedwetters and dupes will try to delete their posts and tweets on social media defending the lockdown and advocating muzzling.

We should never let them forget their complicity in the destruction of our economy and society.

135742 ▶▶ muzzle, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #215 of 1680 🔗

Except that BBC article is a bit ‘look how silly he is with his crazy ideas’

135853 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #216 of 1680 🔗

Thanks this is great. Another sceptic. I can’t wait to download his songs

136127 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #217 of 1680 🔗

I’m not a huge fan of Van the Man but Astral Weeks is a classic album. Anyway he’s now gone up in my estimation. Van, Noel Gallagher, Ian Brown – the numbers are picking up. It’s a fair bet that we could posthumously add Mark E Smith.

137071 ▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #218 of 1680 🔗

Rumour always had it that, though a wonderful singer, VM is something of a m*serable g*t. In this situation I reckon that’s a distinct advantage! Boris and his N*zi sidekick have certainly helped send me into a state of advanced m*serable g*tness, but have singularly failed to improve my voice. B*st*rds!

135602 Gracie Knoll, replying to Gracie Knoll, 15, #219 of 1680 🔗

This video by a young American medic is excellent and well worth sharing.

There is still the occasional doctor who abides by the Hippocratic Oath, even if the majority have now degenerated into servile, unthinking, obedient pushers for the Drug Lords and their patented pseudoscience pills.

https://youtu.be/T540vEvq4IQ

135649 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Gracie Knoll, 1, #220 of 1680 🔗

Thanks Gracie – this is an Excellent, measured, articulate interview.
I wondered if he was putting his medical career at risk, so I Googled further and found him at
https://www.andrswellnessconsulting.com/about-us
How long before Youtube take down the video, though?

135604 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 24, #221 of 1680 🔗

Hancock just said on Sky News:

“the number of people in hospital with COVID is doubling every eight days” in the UK.”

How is he getting away with these lies when if we look at the Govs own web page for hospitalisation it show that this isn’t true?

135610 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to JohnB, 12, #222 of 1680 🔗

He also said yesterday that the number on ventilators was increasing. More lies and scaremongering I suspect…

135625 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to HelzBelz, 12, #223 of 1680 🔗

But not even questioned on these claims. Yet look at the grilling anyone who is sceptical about the governments approach gets, it’s always where’s your evidence, but the same isn’t applied to anyone who is pro-lockdown.

135658 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to JohnB, 2, #224 of 1680 🔗

And if you look at the case statistics on the government site it seems to show the recent glitch is on the decline. OK, there is a huge lag in testing but the ‘date of sample’ curve has dropped significantly from the peak a week or so ago.

135662 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to davews, 9, #225 of 1680 🔗

It’s just lies, lies, and more lies!

137080 ▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #226 of 1680 🔗

Why are people on ventilators. I thought they’d already found that they were causing more harm (death) than good (recovery). Is that not so?

135669 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to JohnB, 5, #227 of 1680 🔗

He will squirm and say something like ‘I meant new hospitalisations are doubling’ if he gets found out.

136118 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to JohnB, 1, #228 of 1680 🔗

Looking on the NHS England Covid stats site, 18 people died with covid on the death certificate on 15th Sept.

136388 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, #229 of 1680 🔗

Hunt said that yesterday before going on about public crisis of confidence because not able to get tested.
Tossers.

136488 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 4, #230 of 1680 🔗

Twat Handy-Cock also said that we need to all wear face nappies because shop workers were 70% more likely to die of covids than other workers. This was based on ONLY 7 deaths of shop workers. from January up until face nappy day. The evil lying mofo.

136561 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Two-Six, #231 of 1680 🔗

As he ever been in a shop?

136680 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Two-Six, #232 of 1680 🔗

So how come most shop workers do not wear a face covering themselves?
Or are “advised” by the government?
That was another plucked out of the air number.

135607 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #233 of 1680 🔗

Julia HB will be interviewing Hancock in the next hour on Talk Radio.

135608 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #234 of 1680 🔗

She’s a glutton for punishment.

135611 ▶▶ matt, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #235 of 1680 🔗

Can someone tweet her the blatant lie above so she has the opportunity to question it?

135622 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to matt, 1, #236 of 1680 🔗

Her questions will be vetted before the interview. It will be softball.

135626 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to nottingham69, 2, #237 of 1680 🔗

She’s given him a harder time than others have in the past.

135657 ▶▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to matt, 3, #238 of 1680 🔗

Agreed. She’s seen the light (finally) and calls out ministers BS.

135675 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #239 of 1680 🔗

She was brilliant with the Health Minister yesterday – part of the interview is on Simon Dolan’s Twitter if you missed it!

135613 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #240 of 1680 🔗

“Aaronovitch starts by agreeing with Lord Sumption that herd immunity either through a vaccine or infection is the only real endgame. ”

Maybe that is already the problem and false.
Profs Gatti and Montanari state that herd immunity is NOT a verified medical concept, but a epidimiological computer model fantasy.
By accepting it as a given unquestionen, we are opening the door to the likely useless, definetely for Coronaviruses unsuited and potentially dangerous solution of mass vaccination, and the lockdown/NPI restriction routes towards it.
And they said so 10 years ago already.

135620 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #241 of 1680 🔗

The concept of herd immunity predates microcomputers never mind computer modelling. If it didn’t exist then those who decline polio vaccination for example would have succumbed and the virus would still be endemic.

135639 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #242 of 1680 🔗

If herd immunity is a mirage, so then is vaccination, since it aims to create this mythical beast.

135703 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to RickH, 1, #243 of 1680 🔗

Sweden have a degree of immunity now

135750 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nic, 5, #244 of 1680 🔗

I’m interested in the immunity question. A little anecdote from here in Sweden:

I have a friend – male, tall (supposedly a risk factor!) and 73 years old. In the spring he had Covid symptoms but never got tested as the illness was nothing he could not handle at home. When antibody tests were made available he got tested and apparently has had the virus. His wife however, with whom he obviously lives (in a small flat), tested negative for antibodies, and I am curious as to why? Was she just naturally immune?

135774 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #245 of 1680 🔗

Surely if previous exposure to a virus offers future immunity, and the virus requires a level of susceptible population in order to sustain itself, eventually a point is reached where the virus goes into decline, to very low levels – i.e. herd immunity.

136144 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Jay Berger, #246 of 1680 🔗

Herd immunity, in my understanding, is a statistical property whereby enough members of the herd are immune such that the illness doesn’t spread significantly during normal levels of interaction among the herd. The words “enough”, “significantly” and “normal” indicate that it’s not a simple on/off property, but it’s a legitimate concept.

135614 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 15, #247 of 1680 🔗

Herd

My overview of the situation is that cases in London are low because it is close to achieving herd immunity.

Lockdowns elsewhere only delay this and make things worse because achieving it in the middle of winter will hit people harder.

The best thing the government could do to save lives would be to scrap all lockdown restrictions immediately.

Note I am saying this purely and simply to save lives. Delaying herd is futile and could actully cost lives. An ill person in the autumn might recover. A more seriously ill person weakened by seasonal conditions might not.

135623 ▶▶ Kev, replying to FrankiiB, 13, #248 of 1680 🔗

The best thing this government could do is resign en-masse. To think I voted for this absolute shower, to my eternal shame!

The “And Finally…” part sums up my thinking entirely, lock down every area but claims its not national.

This has to stop! Enough is enough.

136024 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kev, 2, #249 of 1680 🔗

The best thing this government could do is resign commit seppuku en-masse.

136397 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Kev, #250 of 1680 🔗

I can’t threaten my MP with the withdrawal of my support because he’s Labour (no offence to Labour readers).

135617 Brian D, replying to Brian D, 10, #251 of 1680 🔗

Imagine if they’d spent a fraction of the money they’ve spent on Test, Track and Trash Economy (sorry test, track, trace) on increasing sick pay allowance for employees and employers meaning those with symptoms could simply stay off work for a week without all the world beating ‘dog chasing it’s tail’ palaver.

135636 ▶▶ annie, replying to Brian D, 8, #252 of 1680 🔗

Test, track, trash.

135618 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 8, #253 of 1680 🔗

Could the concept of pre existing immunity would explain why children are not seriously affected and also why some people’s immune system goes into overdrive?

135738 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to p02099003, 5, #254 of 1680 🔗

Yesterday got me thinking as to why children are seemingly immune to Covid and the only answer I could think of is they inherited any immunity from their mothers, ergo natural immunity is more prevalent than we realised and it really is the elderly and the sick who are at risk. Boris and Co. should swing for this!

135765 ▶▶ TJN, replying to p02099003, 4, #255 of 1680 🔗

I read that it was the cell receptors for the virus – children haven’t developed them fully yet. Only still a hypothesis I guess.

When all this started, as soon as it became apparent it didn’t bother children much I was pretty relaxed. In fact, I half want my two to come into contact with it, so that when in a few decades'(?) time a new coronavirus emerges they will likely have some part immunity to it.

The concept of pre-existing immunity has been greatly underestimated – Ferguson’s model made no allowance for it, and assumed 100% susceptibility.

Back in March a GP friend of mine said that this was a new virus to which no one had any immunity. I didn’t want to argue with him (having an engineering rather than medical background), but I didn’t believe that even then, especially as by then it was already clear that China wasn’t going to be obliterated. There isn’t much that’s genuinely new under the sun.

135793 ▶▶ Will, replying to p02099003, #256 of 1680 🔗

I take it, from previous posts, you are a doctor. Do other doctors feel the same as you, in your experience?

135619 Alison9, replying to Alison9, 8, #257 of 1680 🔗

“An enemy hath done this” – links in the Round Up section is a really good read for anyone but particularly for Christians.

135661 ▶▶ Mensch59, replying to Alison9, 2, #258 of 1680 🔗

May we bring forth good fruit and seed!

135621 Jay Berger, 13, #259 of 1680 🔗

“Covid has always been uniquely unsuited to a vaccine solution:”

Yep.
If one wanted to design a pathogen and disease unsuites to it, one would come up with SARS COV2 and Covid19:
The 4 criterias for a good vaccine are and have been since smallpox:
1.Severe disease for all/the specific patient group in question
2.No mutation of the pathogen
3.long lasting immunity through the vaccination
4.pathogen exists in humans only, if it’s in animals too, it can’t be eradicated by a vaccine.

Other than the flawed, and possibly if not likely bogus, concept of herd immunity, there is simply no reason to get healthy people under the age of 70 vaccinated against Covid19.
As such this will be a crime if mandated.

135629 mjr, replying to mjr, 5, #260 of 1680 🔗

Just watching Naga Munchies on BBC interviewing leader of South Ribble Council – both trying to outdo each other in bedwetting .

Very telling question from Naga

“What has caused this increase … this scary increase in cases ..?” The first time she forgot to include “scary” and then quickly corrected herself.

You dont think they have been told to emphasise the scariness do you???

Also they keep repeating the “doubling every 7 days”

135635 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #261 of 1680 🔗

Also then a piece on beach cleaning… Today is national beach clean day.
Comment from a cleaner .. Usual plastics etc… Also lots of PPE !!!!

135634 mwhite, replying to mwhite, 6, #262 of 1680 🔗

hospitals told to find extra beds for coronavirus patients within two weeks
Two weeks?

Another failed model??????????????????

135709 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to mwhite, 3, #264 of 1680 🔗

They just want to kill off all the old people. Send them sick back into care homes where GPs will refuse to see them. Again.

135727 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Thinkaboutit, 3, #265 of 1680 🔗

They obviously don’t think enough elderly have been killed off. We have psychopaths in charge. I don’t know why people think those who govern are sane honest people when the opposite is usually true, however I’m staying clear of the NHS, Covid testing and any track and trace gestapo.

135731 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #266 of 1680 🔗

Anybody who comes to my door waving a swab will get told where to go.

135637 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #267 of 1680 🔗

Given the dictatorships current track record

Does this lawyer actually exist?

If yes, when did they book their leave? and did they go on holiday?

135704 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #268 of 1680 🔗

Time to take the gloves off and demand to know

135732 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cecil B, 4, #269 of 1680 🔗

Time for an FOI!

Methinks it is a ruse, and that the next lockdown is designed to kill off Simon Dolan’s case… the argument being that the country has ‘had to’ go into another lockdown, so it cannot be argued that their actions were not proportional to the threat to public health..

135638 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 22, #270 of 1680 🔗

Anyone see the footage of all theses people complaining at Testing Centers that they can’t get tests and that some had had to drive 2 hours to be told to go home? Not one of them looked ill, compare this to if you have a cold, you’d be coughing, runny nose, puffy eyes, husky throat when talking, no energy, yet all these people are look like there off out on a day trip, full family in the car, loads of time to get out and talk to the press. These people are not ill, it is just a massive farce!

135642 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to JohnB, 14, #271 of 1680 🔗

They are not ill, just full of shit

135651 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 11, #272 of 1680 🔗

They were mainly families so I assume that a lot of them will be where the child has maybe coughed at school and been told they can’t return until they get a negative test, but as part of the T&T the whole family has to be tested to. What an absolute waste of time, money, and resources!

135671 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 2, #273 of 1680 🔗

Yes, this is the most likely explanation.. A lot of people do not now have the ‘spare’ money to drive 2 hours for a test, so will only make the journey if they *have* to have it done for work or school..

135715 ▶▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Carrie, 1, #274 of 1680 🔗

Not so sure on that. Public sector has been fully paid throughout this 30% of the workforce.

135728 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to nottingham69, 1, #275 of 1680 🔗

Yes, public sector workers will be ok. I was thinking more of mums whose kids have been told they can’t return to school without having been tested..

135771 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 1, #276 of 1680 🔗

A lot of single parents and families don’t have cars, so how do they get tested. Not like they can hop on a bus or get a taxi to the test center.

135785 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #277 of 1680 🔗

Good point!

135867 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cecil B, #278 of 1680 🔗

Not quite. Be fair – they have been *filled* with shit from the shit-show that is government.

135699 ▶▶ Nic, replying to JohnB, 3, #279 of 1680 🔗

They are not ill just bonkers.

136407 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 1, #280 of 1680 🔗

Job creation scheme for resting thesps

135645 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 16, #281 of 1680 🔗

Postcard from Birmingham

Out for the 4th time this week last night – naughty us! Into Birmingham from our Sutton Coldfield home (both locked down due on orders from the local Gauleiters) to meet with a couple of friends from the Free State of Dudley.

We drove in around 4pm – avoiding masking up on the bus – and were surprised to see traffic queues both ways on the Expressway. We suspect this is cross city traffic displaced from the train services which seem to still be running limited timetables.

After parking we strolled up Colmore Row which for those who don’t know is the main commercial and business district of the city. There were people about but I’d say well down on what you’d expect to see around going home time.

We met our friends in a bar we like that’s been open under a year – another converted bank. This would normally be buzzing, standing room only at this time. Last night we were one of 3 groups scattered around the cavernous interior.

A swift couple of drinks as our friends were relying on trains back and the last one was at 7:20pm. So round the corner through now pretty deserted streets to Franco Manca on Bennets Hill. Had to go through their T&T rigmarole. I objected to this at first
but now I just suck it up. Seems pointless to protest at the staff – who are only implementing orders – when their jobs are under threat and they’re on lousy money to start with.

Franco Manca is on of our favourite destinations for group meals – usually between 10 and 16 of us every 6 weeks or so. So it was really sad to see yet another deserted venue. In the 90 minutes we were there there were 3 other tables occupied in a place that can would normally handle 120 covers. It’s really difficult to see how establishments like these can continue to operate with these numbers yet here we go again with more and more calls for another hospitality-focussed lockdown.

One plus point during our was the realisation our 1 friend, who had been fairly zealous during lockdown, was now pretty sceptical. Having been back at work a few weeks and back out in pubs and restaurants regularly he is certainly very anti any of the new measures being considered.

Back out into the wasteland around 7pm past empty bars and restaurants – no pre-theatre or gig crowds around now, into the car and back home in front of the telly by 8pm.

So we’ve mainly been out and about locally since Freedom Day a couple of months back. During August it certainly felt like a sense of normality was creeping back. The pub quizzes we do had got back to full numbers and the restaurants we wanted to eat in all required bookings.

This last week has seen a definite fall-off. You can sense a dip in morale and it’s started to feel again like mid-March as people retreated to their homes in anticipation of what was to come.

I had felt pretty positive but now I’m beginning to feel ground down again by the relentless march of the Covid cowed.

135697 ▶▶ Nic, replying to LGDTLK, 7, #282 of 1680 🔗

Just ignore the stupid laws I will meet people where and when I want.

135773 ▶▶ RickH, replying to LGDTLK, 3, #283 of 1680 🔗

Local reports like this are interesting – and they emphasize that we are not alone in our perceptions and feelings, as well as giving a picture of what is happening.

Undoubtedly you are right about this being a second wave of the psy-op. But too many are still falling for it, aided by idiots like Aaronovitch.

135647 Mensch59, replying to Mensch59, 11, #284 of 1680 🔗

Great comments section on this site in addition to the obvious: great articles.

135665 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mensch59, 2, #285 of 1680 🔗

Welcome, if you are new here 🙂

135650 davews, 4, #286 of 1680 🔗

More things to worry about this morning:
https://www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/18727828.coroanvirus-testing-boris-johnson-announces-new-lab-built-bracknell/

This is our local urgent care centre which offers other services and is where I had my prostate cancer radiotherapy a few years ago. Walking distance, far too close for comfort. I would assume they would have to close the urgent care centre and everything else if this goes ahead. I am not clapping my hands for this.

135652 Hoppy Uniatz, 2, #287 of 1680 🔗

I note today’s theme tune, “Everything I want to do is Illegal,” is also the title of an (excellent) book by the robustly sceptic farmer Joel Salatin.

135656 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 7, #288 of 1680 🔗

So, the new testing centers will be called “Lighthouse testing centres”, and then we had the “Nightingale Hospitals”. Just thinking of what Johnson and Hancock’s legacies will be and what they will have named after them? The only thing I can think of at the mo is “Oh, I’ve just trod in a Boris” or “I need to pick up that Hancock the dog just did”.

135672 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 1, #289 of 1680 🔗

I suspect that Florence Nightingale is spinning in her grave …

135673 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to kh1485, 4, #290 of 1680 🔗

She certainly knew how to read a graph.

135659 DRW, replying to DRW, 6, #291 of 1680 🔗

So there you have it in the BBC. The dreaded word “considered”, read “confirmed for next 9pm twitter diktat”. But they did warn us back in August that “We’ll shut the pubs to keep the schools open”.

135663 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 2, #292 of 1680 🔗

Exactly – everything ‘considered’ now becomes law about 12 hours later… Although possibly Hancock ‘might’ now mention it in Parliament to avoid being summoned to answer an Urgent Question by the Speaker…

135660 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 15, #293 of 1680 🔗

I have just listened to possibly one of the saddest messages I have ever received.

On Tuesday we gave some scones to the son of one of our regulars. She left a message to say thank you which I have only just had the chance to listen to. Her voice was frailer than usual and she said she hoped she would be able to come to the shop again if she sees her friends again (who she used to meet here once a week). The killer for me was “It’s nice not to have been forgotten”

135723 ▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 6, #294 of 1680 🔗

Lovely story, although poignant of course.

I hope it puts the Facebook spat you had earlier this week into its proper perspective, and shows why you are right.

135664 Cecil B, 3, #295 of 1680 🔗

A dictator at the centre of power who dictates what the final solution will be

In the regions Gauleiters have a free hand to implement the will of the dictator using whatever means they see fit

Nothing new under the sun

135670 Paul Steward, replying to Paul Steward, 7, #296 of 1680 🔗

So according to BBC and Sky news apps we’re heading for ‘new national restrictions’ just don’t call it a lockdown. What and when who knows; why must everything be leaked to the press days before its even decided let alone announced, now everyone can spend the weekend anxious about what new limits they intend to impose on us all. FFS!

135676 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Paul Steward, 2, #297 of 1680 🔗

To test the waters I suppose.

135684 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to DRW, 1, #298 of 1680 🔗

They’ll do it anyway.

135693 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Poppy, 3, #299 of 1680 🔗

Of course, they put these things out as “considered” and if there’s no big pushback, it’s on.

135702 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, #300 of 1680 🔗

According to one headline it will be in two weeks – where have we heard that figure before?!

135708 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, #301 of 1680 🔗

“Two weeks behind Italy”- remember that? It’ll be probably updated to Spain now.

136167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Carrie, 1, #302 of 1680 🔗

It’ll be two weeks, then another two, then another four, then it’ll be winter so have to keep the restrictions on.

135711 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to DRW, #303 of 1680 🔗

What type of hat are they going to squash this time? Two weeks = whole winter.

135717 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Leemc23, #304 of 1680 🔗

Isn’t it a camel hump or something, according to BJ?

135688 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 4, #305 of 1680 🔗

To heap more psychological stress on the population..

136037 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, #306 of 1680 🔗

Standard mind-control procedure, imho.

135707 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Paul Steward, 6, #307 of 1680 🔗

Unfortunately it’s already decided. The days / weeks that follow involve confirmation bias and preparation.

Everything from June indicated this would happen and as such that’s the direction of travel. Those that were left and could afford to feed their families were clearly too many.

136012 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Leemc23, 2, #308 of 1680 🔗

As soon as the government realised, in April, that the virus is nothing like as dangerous as the Chinese, their WHO stooges and the idiot Ferguson had them believe, which precipitated the catastrophic decision to clear the decks into the care homes, the government has been intent on creating a fait accompli whereby they could claim credit for “beating” the virus. If we weren’t testing people, abusing a test which is completely unfit for purpose anyway, no one would even be aware that covid, any longer, exists.

135677 Jane in France, replying to Jane in France, 1, #309 of 1680 🔗

Does anyone know any more about why Israel has imposed another lockdown? They were making a big deal about it on the radio this morning.

135685 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Jane in France, 1, #310 of 1680 🔗

I have heard suggestions that it may be cover for a war with Iran. I have also heard that some rabbis are saying it is cover for the prime minister meeting with the Messiah. If the latter then bear in mind that from a Christian perspective, the messiah – Jesus Christ – is NOT going to return by way of a meeting behind closed doors with dubious politicians. However, according to Scripture, a false messiah will appear just before the real one.

135687 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Jane in France, 1, #311 of 1680 🔗

Yes, I do.
Lockdown in Israel is for 2 weeks starting today to stop people socialising. They have the Jewish New Year from today for 3 days and soon after 2 other Jewish celebrations.
The lockdown is very strict. Everything is closed except shops and pharmacies and people are not allowed to visit other people.

135680 Anthony, replying to Anthony, 5, #312 of 1680 🔗

Matt Hancock just interviewed on talkradio. Apparently they know the exact false pos rate for PCR tests. Its under one but he somehow doesn’t know the exact figure.

135681 ▶▶ Anthony, replying to Anthony, 4, #313 of 1680 🔗

Strange that there’s one figure considering all of the different kits, platforms that are likely being used.

136043 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Anthony, #314 of 1680 🔗

… and the number of cycles, seems pretty key.

135694 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Anthony, #315 of 1680 🔗

He’s probably waiting for his handlers to come up with a plausible figure that ‘admits’ that there is a false positive rate, but underestimates it, in order that they can keep using the same number of cycles without being further hassled by the MSM about it..

135706 ▶▶▶ Anthony, replying to Carrie, #316 of 1680 🔗

Its probably 0.99%. Sounds better to say ‘under one’.

135995 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Carrie, #317 of 1680 🔗

The false positive rate will depend on the cycle count – the higher the cycle count the higher the false positive rate. False positives are also a separate entity to PCR tests picking up dead viral cells. There are voices now saying that most, if not all positive test results in the pillar two data could be one of those two.

135695 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Anthony, 5, #318 of 1680 🔗

He’s an idiot out of his depth. I wouldn’t employ him to run a whelk stall.

135710 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #319 of 1680 🔗

Oh he’s not an idiot. It takes brains and guts to carry on being this wrong without giving in to the truth.

135716 ▶▶▶ Drummerman, replying to Bella Donna, #320 of 1680 🔗

Depends how you define ‘idiot’, maybe … Yes, he’s clearly incompetent at doing things, but he has had the benefit of a decent education (although he doesn’t seemed to have learned how to apply that).The question for me is what’s making him behave in this idiotic manner? Is he mad or bad or both …

135720 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Drummerman, 1, #321 of 1680 🔗

Nicole Junkermann..

136172 ▶▶▶ Paul S Toms, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #322 of 1680 🔗

Hancock reveals in the Brewer interview today that he doesn’t understand the stats on False Positives; he thinks they refer to a percentage of the Total Positives, not the Total Tested. So instead of 3000 +ve tests being mostly FPs, as according to Carl Heneghan, Hancock thinks that 1% means 30, i.e. very very small.

After all this time and all that’s been said, he still doesn’t get it!

135700 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Anthony, #323 of 1680 🔗

Lying his way out of trouble.

135712 ▶▶ mwhite, replying to Anthony, #324 of 1680 🔗

Does the false positive test include the detection of viral RNA fragments from people who have had and recovered from the virus

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200504/Dead-virus-fragments-are-causing-COVID-19-reinfection-false-positives.aspx

135996 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to mwhite, 1, #325 of 1680 🔗

No. Medically speaking, a false positive is where a test returns a positive without any RNA. The fragments are a separate (but equally problematic) issue.

135713 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Anthony, 1, #326 of 1680 🔗

He knows what it is he just hasn’t worked out what he can get away with saying yet that won’t undermine his plans.

135719 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Achilles, #327 of 1680 🔗

Exactly!

135760 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Anthony, #328 of 1680 🔗

This is pretty basic maths. Hancock should have said that the false positive rate is all the positives – the real positives. Ummmmmm, what might that be? Oh, they don’t know the real number either.

135766 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Anthony, #329 of 1680 🔗

Odd how he doesn’t know those figures, but then says that COVID hospitalisations are doubling every 8 day which they aren’t. Not pushed for further questions on either topic.

135937 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Anthony, #330 of 1680 🔗

Is that under 1% or under 1 (which could be 99.9999999999999999999999%)?

135682 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #331 of 1680 🔗

I had turned off the news and was listening to Leonard Cohen to cheer myself up but my wife tells me that on the news they are reporting a dramatic rise in Covid 19 hospital cases. As far as I am aware the only data available is;
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare
Is there any other data? or is this the media making something out of nothing?

135689 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #332 of 1680 🔗

Remember we are a nation of over 70 million these are tiny numberd

135701 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nic, 1, #333 of 1680 🔗

Surge! Spike! Skyrocket! SCARY!

135726 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 2, #334 of 1680 🔗

Did you hear Ann-Marie Trevelyan being interviewed on Talk Radio? It was excruciating hearing her talking about the virus as being nice and liking to share itself around – I had to turn it off! Expect Julia H-B will put up the interview on her Twitter feed in due course..

135787 ▶▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Carrie, 2, #335 of 1680 🔗

Yes that was bad very bad. She matches Hitch’s general description of mp’s to perfection. Dim, slumbering and gullible. Or thick, lazy sheep.

135718 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Nic, 2, #336 of 1680 🔗

65 million of whom won’t come out from behind the sofa

135746 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #337 of 1680 🔗

Re Leonard Cohen to cheer yourself up, the BBC4 9am news did include a fair report about Van Morrison releasing 3 anti lockdown tracks and managed to say he

‘claims that government is using fake science to exaggerate the effects of Covid’

without a surprised sneer.

135951 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #338 of 1680 🔗

Don’t listen to the radio. It is all propaganda – the link is correct

136017 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Steve Martindale, #339 of 1680 🔗

Looking at the two graphs I think we can also infer that most people aren’t spending very long in hospital in that the number of people in hospital is increasing by significantly less than the number being admitted each day. Does this mean they are counting outpatients? Yet another way to skew the numbers.

135721 Leemc23, 9, #340 of 1680 🔗

More evidence than in March. More treatments than in March. More community immunity than in March. More understanding of the damage of lockdowns than March. More awareness than in March. More controls than in March.

= lockdown 2.

Duck sake.

135722 Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 1, #341 of 1680 🔗

EPISODE 6 HAS JUST GONE LIVE!

Coronavirus Jazz Music!

CV RAP MUSIC!

NORF FC LOCKDOWN

Flu season 2018 comparison

NHS emptying beds AGAIN?!?! Aren’t they empty already?

CHECK IT OUT BELOW 👇 👇 👇

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

135724 ▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 1, #342 of 1680 🔗

I actually went pretty F’ing mental in this one….sorry!

135729 ▶▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 1, #343 of 1680 🔗

Just so peeved about today’s headlines….

135730 nat, replying to nat, 1, #344 of 1680 🔗

This is the latest video from JP Sears and it’s one of the funniest: The Pandemic Hotline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uese-6Xln7o

135744 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to nat, 3, #345 of 1680 🔗

Yes, his best and savage at the end. Dirty looks from my upstairs business neighbour at our hysterics (Business ‘Improvement’ District bods).

135751 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to nat, 3, #346 of 1680 🔗

“You need to lose weight, you sound fat..” Brilliant.

135733 Nic, 1, #347 of 1680 🔗

It’s about time hancock

135736 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 2, #348 of 1680 🔗

Wancoc, after once again telling us that The Cavalry, by which he meant the vaccine, is on the horizon lies when he said
“don’t believe the stories you hear about people being sent hundreds of miles to get tested, tests are available in every area…”

So the two unrelated individuals who told me last week that they had been directed to South Wales are liars are they ?

135767 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to karenovirus, 2, #349 of 1680 🔗

The Leader of Rhondda Cynon Taf council – Andrew Morgan – stated two days ago that 300 people from England had been tested locally.

135802 ▶▶ TJN, replying to karenovirus, 3, #350 of 1680 🔗

Radio 4 again? In the same interview he effectively admitted that the strategy was to keep the virus suppressed until a vaccine emerges. The interviewer seemed surprised to get this rise out of him.

So at least we now have a government policy statement identifying an end point. Which means they are happy to keep this garbage going for months, if not years.

Economic collapse will intervene long before then. And the sooner it does, the less the overall damage will be.

135818 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to TJN, 5, #351 of 1680 🔗

It’s crazy! Sweden are also ‘in it for the long haul’, but the recommendations are far less draconian – indeed, in 2 weeks’ time gatherings of over 500 will be allowed..

I suspect a degree of ‘telemedicine’ will continue here, and working from home, using zoom conferences where possible etc, but look at the ‘shopping in Sweden’ video that Toby posted a day or so ago and you will see that much of life is as normal. We obediently stand on the spaced lines at tills, but also go to cafes, and I see that many people ignore the hand sanitiser at the entrance to supermarkets (which is not ‘policed’ in any case!)…

135828 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, #352 of 1680 🔗

Agree TJN – it starts in mid-late October, in my view. Vaccine will not happen either as I think it is only a matter of time there is another pause in the Oxford vaccine trial and the Moderna vaccine will not get a quick pass with the FDA.

135892 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #353 of 1680 🔗

I will hold you to the Ides of October! Four weeks to go.

Of course, October is the traditional month for economic crashes.

Also on R4 this morning, just before the Hancock interview, Laura K was explaining how Rishi Sunak had presented Johnson et al with some dire financial predictions. Indeed.

I think they are going to be cavalier with the virus development.

So one of the patients developed a very serious reaction, which was there is a realistic chance is linked to the vaccination. But a week later it’s all ok again. How can something like that be resolved in only a week??

Yep, if she’d had the placebo then fine, move on. But she’d had the proper jab. I don’t know what an acceptable level of complications in a trial like this looks like, but surely that she developed that rare condition two weeks after her second jab should start alarm bells ringing very loudly.

Yet in the Mail article you drew attention to yesterday, it is clear that Fauci had already made his mind up, and intends that the development go ahead whatever.

135737 TJN, replying to TJN, 47, #354 of 1680 🔗

End of my little girl’s first fortnight at school. Headmaster’s instructions that all parents dropping off children are to wear muzzles. I’m the only parent who doesn’t.

Today, as she was going in, she seemed a bit reluctant – the first time this has happened. She looked back at me for reassurance. And saw my face . And then when in ok.

In that little instant an awful lot came home to me.

Fuck Johnson, Hancock, Fergusson, Whitty, the WHO, the whole damned lot of them.

135946 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to TJN, 5, #355 of 1680 🔗

Good for you. You are exempt from wearing a mask

135963 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Victoria, 8, #356 of 1680 🔗

Everyone’s exempt! Risk of harm defence.

136806 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TJN, 2, #357 of 1680 🔗

It is now long past time to start getting angry. There is a brutal war being waged on the public by the traitorous UK governments.

136593 ▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, 3, #358 of 1680 🔗

Who’d want to fuck ’em, the loathsome swine?
God damn them.
That is optative, not expletive.

136859 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, #359 of 1680 🔗

F’em has lots of connotations …

I must confess, I had to look up optative, and the grammatical sense of expletive. I’ve learnt something today!

135739 Nic, replying to Nic, 9, #360 of 1680 🔗

It’s about time Hancock, whitty etc were asked some proper questions.
Mine would be what happens when we come out of the 2nd lockdown?
It’s obvious the first didnt work you cant defeat s virus.
Hancock will we then have a 3rd lockdown 4th?
Please explain the governments long term stratergy ?
If we carry on like this the country will be destroyed.
Love to hear his reply!

135741 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nic, 2, #361 of 1680 🔗

Is it possible to send questions to Julia H-B and/or other sceptic journalists and request that they ask them?

135743 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Carrie, #362 of 1680 🔗

Good idea I will do it sometime today

135754 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nic, 1, #363 of 1680 🔗

You could also point her in the direction of this guy: https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom whose Twitter feed has lots of good stats re Sweden.

I’d like to know how many cycles they are using in the PCR tests here in Sweden – not been able to find out…

How does one get in contact with Julia?

135756 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nic, #364 of 1680 🔗

Burley’s in studio side kick now with journalist paper note pad has just said they’ve learned in past 20 mins the Chief Science Advisor and A N Other have been in to see Boris to advise a second lockdown is a bright idea given what they are seeing across the country.

The release completely unspoken. Two meeks mentioned so that means 4 months given what we experienced after 3 weeks to flatten curve.

135781 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #365 of 1680 🔗

Vallance and Whitty?

135790 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Nic, #366 of 1680 🔗

On the Today programme this morning Matt Hancock actually did spell out the policy: ‘to suppress the virus while keeping schools open and allowing people to go to work until the arrival of the cavalry over the hill [this is the metaphor he used, verbatim] in the form of the vaccine.’

136070 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Alethea, 2, #367 of 1680 🔗

To allow people to go to work unless they work in one of the businesses which are forced to close (possibly permanently) because of the lockdown.

136005 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nic, #368 of 1680 🔗

I’ve asked them plenty in e-mails and letters but no reply from any of them.

135745 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #369 of 1680 🔗

Re post from last night. WHO information which may be useful to parents. The documrnt says WHO expects parents to physically keep children away from vaccination days, if parents don’t do this a childs presence is taken by WHO as consent to vaccinate.

The World Health Organization now considers your child’s presence in school informed consent to vaccinate that child.

The WHO has labeled it ‘implied consent’

Link to WHO pdf
https://www.who.int/immunization/programmes_systems/policies_strategies/consent_note_en.pdf

135775 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Basics, 1, #370 of 1680 🔗

Thanks Basics for posting this – a useful (and chilling) document.

The young american doctor linked to below offers the most inspirational arguments against this I have put up the link again as stuff disappears down the comments quickly. Maybe we need to find some way of pinning particularly good links.

135777 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 6, #372 of 1680 🔗

That’s very important. The woman the other day, who said the NHS had turned up at her daughter’s school and vaccinated her daughter without prior warning, said that she got a text from the NHS the next day informing her what the vaccine was, who had administered it etc (It was the HPV vaccine).

Apparently EVEN IF you write and *actively* withhold consent, that can be overridden by the vaccinator if the child ‘expresses an interest’ in having the vaccine – grrrr.

The cynic in me, on reading that the school claim not to have been informed of the visit in advance, thinks that the school is being disingenuous and knew full well of the planned visit, just maybe not the date, and decided to ‘help’ take-up (and avoid conflict due to current vaccine discussions) by failing to mention it to parents in correspondence. It’s probably buried deep on their website somewhere..

The parent did not mention another thing that I found worrying – how did the NHS get hold of the parents’ mobile phone numbers to send the text messages? When enrolling your child at a school, do you sign something that allows the school to give out your contact details to the NHS? Track n Trace being helped by this if so……

135842 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #373 of 1680 🔗

WikiHow online gives a lots of ways, tactics and schemes for children to use if tgey want to be vaccinated against their parents wishes. Seaching wkihow – how do I get vaccinated without my parents knowing may bring up results.

Another point is the informed consent is out of the window if told after the fact. Too late then.

135942 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, 4, #374 of 1680 🔗

The HPV vaccine is very controversial, it only covers something like 4 out of 70+ strains, many side effects and is given to children of whom many are not sexually active. It you believe that it protects the child it is only effective for 5 years.

DuckDuckGo search ‘HPV deaths’

Can HPV Vaccine Cause Injury and Death? https://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/HPV/vaccine-injury.aspx

According to federal VAERS data, as of May 31, 2018, 503 deaths following the HPV vaccination have been reported following HPV vaccination. However, the number of HPV vaccine related injuries and deaths reported to VAERS is assumed to be underreported as explained below.

As of July 1, 2019 415 claims have been filed to the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) for 15 deaths and 400 injuries that occurred after HPV vaccination. To date, the U.S. Court of Claims has compensated 130 of the 415 children and adults who filed claims for HPV vaccine injuries.

Gardasil controversy: Freedom of Information disclosure reveals more deaths in Australia after HPV vaccination https://changingtimes.media/2019/07/20/gardasil-controversy-freedom-of-information-disclosure-reveals-more-deaths-in-australia-after-hpv-vaccination/

Note: A well functioning immune system is instrumental in helping the body fight infections

136206 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, 2, #375 of 1680 🔗

Precisely what they do with African children in the malaria vaccine studies, despite the fact they know that the vaccine doubles all-cause mortality in girls:-

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-02/b-wmv022520.php

A large scale malaria vaccine study led by the World Health Organization (WHO) has been criticised by a leading bioethicist for committing a “serious breach” of international ethical standards, finds a special report published by The BMJ today.

The cluster randomised study in Africa is already underway in Malawi, Ghana, and Kenya, where 720,000 children will receive the RTS,S vaccine, known as Mosquirix, over the next two years.

Mosquirix, the world’s first licensed malaria vaccine, was positively reviewed by the European Medicines Agency, but its use is being limited to pilot implementation, in part to evaluate outstanding safety concerns that emerged from previous clinical trials.

These were a rate of meningitis in those receiving Mosquirix 10 times that of those who did not, increased cerebral malaria cases, and a doubling in the risk of death (from any cause) in girls.

WHO says the study is a “pilot introduction” and not a “research activity” – and that those children living in areas randomised to receive the new vaccine will do so as part of each country’s routine vaccination schedule and that consent is “implied.”

An implied consent process means that recipients of the vaccine are not being informed that they are in a study.

Instead, WHO says that information on vaccination is provided to the community and to parents through health talks and community outreach – among other methods – and parents who present for vaccination do so with the option to vaccinate their children or not.

But Charles Weijer, a bioethicist at Western University in Canada, told The BMJ that the failure to obtain informed consent from parents whose children are taking part in the study violates the Ottawa Statement, a consensus statement on the ethics of cluster randomised trials.

He says that so-called implied consent is “no substitute for informed consent. Indeed, implied consent is no consent at all. We have no assurance that parents in fact received information about the study let alone that they understood it.”

What information parents are provided in practice is hard to judge.

WHO sent The BMJ some training information that it says it has shared with country partners about Mosquirix’s potential risks. The material lists the increased rates of meningitis and cerebral malaria observed in trials and states that they will be monitored. But the potential for increased risk of death among girls is not mentioned.

136281 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kevin 2, #376 of 1680 🔗

HCQ withdrawn from African countries, known to be effective against Malaria. Well liked byAfricans.

135747 NickR, replying to NickR, 10, #377 of 1680 🔗

For those of you interested in such things here’s the latest data from the NHS for hospital admissions. I’ve included the raw data, which hopefull you can read.
A few points are worth noting:

  1. Hospital admissions are mainly of people who are already in hospital in other words they haven’t been admitted because they’re diagnosed as suffering from Covid. The data on this only runs up to 2nd Sept at which time about 65% of admissions were people already in hospital.
  2. The Scots gave up counting how many people were admitted to hospital on the 7th Sept. That must be reliable data then!
  3. The Welsh have a hugely disproportionate number of hospitalisations because they don’t bother testing people to see if they’re infected or not they simply report anyone they ‘suspect’ as being a Covid paitient. They suspect a lot!
135757 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NickR, 1, #378 of 1680 🔗

Send that to Julia H-B and Sky for their next interviews with Hancock! He needs to be called out on all his lies..

135762 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to NickR, 2, #379 of 1680 🔗

If the policy at a Welsh hospital local to me is a guide, they presume anyone to be covid unless proven otherwise. An elderly relative was admitted with a chest infection (just before local lockdown) and “?covid” was put against his name. He was negative and in fact on a specific day just before local lockdown there were zero patients with covid at the hospital (two different, independent sources).

135778 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to NickR, #380 of 1680 🔗

Thanks Nick. I now understand your comments on my post yesterday – I hadn’t realised the NHS gave data which split external and in-patient Covid admissions.
I suspect we will see a significant rise from 3 Sept when the new data comes out, but we will have to wait till mid-Oct for it (data is published monthly, last produced 10 Sept).
Is it fair to conclude that hospitals are still dangerous places to be, because of the high risk of catching Covid while admitted for anything else?

135795 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #381 of 1680 🔗

I think nosocomial infection is only a small part of it. I suspect hospitals are pretty good at infection control. Rather, what I suspect happens is several things:

  1. Lot’s of people will test positive, so a patient who’s in for a broken arm or whatever could be positive.
  2. The grandfather of someone I know recently went in for a kidney operation. The other 2 chaps in his ward were covid positive (though not in for it or ill with it), he tested positive after only being there a day, so he didn’t catch it in the hospital but probably from his home carer. The operation went ahead & everyone just seemed to ignore the fact they were positive.
  3. People coming from care homes, 50% of care homes have had outbreaks so loads of these people will doubtless test positive but it isn’t necessarily contributory to their hospitalisation.

The weekly data on age related admissions isn’t recent enough to get much of a feel for who’s going in but the key issue is why are people being admitted, is it to treat Covid or is that just an ancillary condition?

135806 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to NickR, #382 of 1680 🔗

So am I getting this right? For 2 Sept:
” Number of patients admitted with confirmed COVID-19 – Total  21 “
is patients who had a +ve test before admission, and
” Number of inpatients diagnosed with COVID-19 – Total             45 “
are people who tested +ve after admission, whatever they were admitted for.

I presume everyone gets tested on admission, so wouldn’t anyone tested on arrival whose test subsequently turned out to be +ve fit in the first category?

135835 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #383 of 1680 🔗

This is quite a good chart to explain it. I don’t know why it happens but it does. The NHS report on those ‘admitted’ with a pre-existing positive test & separately those who are tested when already in hospital.
I suspect it means that many people who were admitted were not kicking about the community in advance of hospitalisation but in some way already in the care system, & not admitted because of covid but ‘with’ covid.

135801 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to NickR, #385 of 1680 🔗

Tricky stuff this hospital data, so these figures are admissions? Presumably there will also be discharges? And so I am guessing the key figure is the number actually in hospital?

135826 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Steve Martindale, #386 of 1680 🔗

The NHS data shows:

  1. ‘Admitted’, people who had a positive test in advance of admission.
  2. Diagnosed, people already in hospital who were subsequently ‘admitted’ when tested in hospital.
  3. Discharged. The difference between (admitted + diagnosed) – discharges = deaths
135805 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to NickR, #387 of 1680 🔗

So they are being admitted twice?

135817 ▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to stefarm, #388 of 1680 🔗

“A Hospital Provider Spell starts with a Hospital Provider admission and ends with a Hospital Provider discharge”

https://datadictionary.nhs.uk/data_dictionary/nhs_business_definitions/h/hospital_provider_spell_de.asp?shownav=1

Before retiring I used to work with this – thought I was shot of it!

135877 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #389 of 1680 🔗

This was the explanation from one of the statisticians at the NHS explaining the 2 types of patients, admitted & diagnosed……..

We effectively have 2 items in the publication that make up admissions due to covid.

  1. Patients admitted with confirmed covid (i.e those who already have a positive test on admission)
  2. Inpatients newly diagnosed in previous 24 hours. These will include patients already in hospital for other reasons who have since contracted covid (as you say), but will also include patients admitted with suspected covid but without a positive test at time of admission. We don’t have a split of this figure I’m afraid.
135956 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #391 of 1680 🔗

Yes, I was aware of those definitions but they don’t precisely match up to the data set of ‘Admitted’ & ‘Diagnosed’ so I asked the question & this was the reply:

We effectively have 2 items in the publication that make up admissions due to covid.

  1. Patients admitted with confirmed covid (i.e those who already have a positive test on admission)
  2. Inpatients newly diagnosed in previous 24 hours. These will include patients already in hospital for other reasons who have since contracted covid (as you say), but will also include patients admitted with suspected covid but without a positive test at time of admission. We don’t have a split of this figure I’m afraid.

The issue for me is that (until the past couple of days) its been very easy to get a test. All NHS gatekeepers direct suspected cases to get a test before rocking up at hospital, therefore who can these people be who get into hospital without a test?

135984 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to NickR, #392 of 1680 🔗

Could be admissions via A&E

135988 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Andy Riley, #393 of 1680 🔗

What, 70%!

136013 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to NickR, #394 of 1680 🔗

The HES web site gives a lot of information about hospital activity but is not up to date.
Here is “FAEs by admission method, 2009-10 to 2019-20” (FAE = Finished Admission Episide)
http://bitly.ws/9LDi

Scroll down to “Elective and emergency admissions by month, 2019-20” which shows in normal times emergency is about 2/3 of elective. The chart only goes up to March, but since then, with cancellation of a lot of electives, emergency will have been dominant.

135821 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to stefarm, 3, #395 of 1680 🔗

Yes. Since March 20th 82% of all hospital ‘Covid’ admissions have been of people who were already inpatients. This is publicly available data.

135825 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NickR, #396 of 1680 🔗

Someone give that graph to Julia H-B to quote at Matt Hancock !

135838 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to NickR, 3, #397 of 1680 🔗

Nick,
Do you work in the NHS – if not, can someone who does confirm that we are reading the data correctly.
To my mind this is gold dust, in terms of giving context – it blows out of the water the idea that we are at high risk of being hospitalised with Covid simply by going about our daily lives.
Of course, the downside is that it will make people even more fearful of going to hospital with other illnesses.

135836 ▶▶ Basics, replying to NickR, 1, #398 of 1680 🔗

NickR these are excellent additions to the comments. Really helpful posting. Thank you.

135864 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to NickR, 2, #399 of 1680 🔗

Very interesting information but also shocking. You would think the only interesting and essential information is people admitted with CLI(C-19 like illness) or contracted CLI at hospital and the same for those admitted to ICU.These are the only cases to be worried about and would be the best estimate of the current case surge and whether it is impacting health care.All other cases are relevant for hospital infection control practice perhaps but are mostly total irrelevant just indicating past infection or false positive. There are suspicions that this type of overcounting of C-19 cases in hospitals and ICU happens also in Spain and France.

135900 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to swedenborg, 2, #400 of 1680 🔗

I’ve had the NHS statisticians confirm the interpretation, this is copied from an email response….

We effectively have 2 items in the publication that make up admissions due to covid.

  1. Patients admitted with confirmed covid (i.e those who already have a positive test on admission)
  2. Inpatients newly diagnosed in previous 24 hours. These will include patients already in hospital for other reasons who have since contracted covid (as you say), but will also include patients admitted with suspected covid but without a positive test at time of admission. We don’t have a split of this figure I’m afraid.
136102 ▶▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to NickR, #401 of 1680 🔗

I suggest sending this information to Deborah Cohen as well. Her email address can be found on her website.

136453 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to swedenborg, #402 of 1680 🔗

This interactive website allows you to select which age group you want to look at for admissions, diagnoses, discharges virtually all hospital activity. Just click on the category on the right which you want/dont want.
https://rpubs.com/davehawkins/659676

135749 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 6, #403 of 1680 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54194498
good to see Van Morrison fighting back

135752 ▶▶ Kate, replying to crimsonpirate, #404 of 1680 🔗

Yes it is the sixties generation that has the balls to do this.

135761 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to crimsonpirate, 3, #405 of 1680 🔗

Just missed this!!

I think a lot of artists are worried about speaking out. My sense is that lockdown is a bit ‘woke’ and has been taken up by nearly all on the Left (SDP is one exception and I am sure there are a few others). Since the Arts tend to be on the Left, this has meant they have been quiet on the issue at a time when the Arts have a huge role to play in resisting all this.

135812 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #406 of 1680 🔗

Traditionally the left was the side of rebellion against authority and the establishment. Nowadays the left are the authority and are the establishment. This has wider application than coronapanic, but is often only noticeable, for those themselves generally on the left but sceptical of the coronapanic, in the case of coronapanic issues, because in other areas they do not see it because they see their own side’s abuses as “just common sense” or “just decency”.

The other area where it is particularly evident is the way Cultural Revolutionary zealot mobs of the left, such as BLM and XR, are allowed, even encouraged, to march and to harass dissenters from establishment orthodoxy. That is their role and purpose.

136162 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #407 of 1680 🔗

Apparently the NME was ” outraged ” that Noel Gallagher refuses to wear a mask!.. rock on!

135769 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to crimsonpirate, 7, #408 of 1680 🔗

Arseholes on radio this morning slagging off van, Ian brown, Noel g, Jim corr. Mocking them, to be expected but as my comment earlier I truly hope all the aresholes in media eventually suffer for this.

135783 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 4, #409 of 1680 🔗

Hopefully the cuts in advertising revenue will see to that.

135804 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 2, #410 of 1680 🔗

Absolute 90s seems to be 100% covid advertising, PPE as well as the awful one about making sure children have their mask – trusted PPE

135816 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stefarm, 5, #411 of 1680 🔗

I think it was Delingpole, on one of his and Toby’s London Calling podcasts, who was saying that advertising salesmen love to sell space to government, because unlike all the stuff for private clients, which is negotiated hard and sold at massive discounts to book rates, government just pays book rate without quibbling. Massively more profitable (and much less work).

135827 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 3, #412 of 1680 🔗

Yes, more wasting of tax-payers’ hard-earned!

135928 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #413 of 1680 🔗

Well it’s a marvelous night for a Moonshot

135753 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #414 of 1680 🔗

The arts are finally starting to resist The Madness:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54194498

135779 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #415 of 1680 🔗

Andrew Lloyd Webber was celebrating the other day that one of his productions was going to re-open – another lockdown will put the kibosh on that…

135755 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #416 of 1680 🔗

Grateful for this site and all the work that goes into it. Thank you.

Another national lockdown? What’s this about? Is this serious?

So we will be doing this now, what, forever? Until every last inch of the economy is devastated? Really?

And they haven’t even outlined their objectives. Surely people won’t take it again?

135813 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #417 of 1680 🔗

The willingness, even gladness, of the British people to go along with every degrading treatment meted out to them so far doesn’t make me particularly optimistic with respect to your final sentence.

135834 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to mattghg, 1, #418 of 1680 🔗

I wonder if we deserve all this on some level. Freedom has to be re-earned over and over again. Like in sport you are only as good as your last goal or tennis shot. Well, we have now been re-tested and come up totally short.

136587 ▶▶ annie, replying to Country Mumkin, #419 of 1680 🔗

Well, I won’t. For a start.

135768 Stuart, replying to Stuart, 1, #420 of 1680 🔗

Have a look at the following link. It’s an article in the British Medical Journal which refers to the staggering number of excess deaths in care homes. 30,000 in total, 6,000 attributable to Covid. It’s a disgrace. https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1931

135772 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Stuart, 3, #421 of 1680 🔗

What caused the other 24,000? Unintended consequences from obsessing with Covid?

135782 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #422 of 1680 🔗

Refusal of medical care from the NHS.If you were planning a fake pandemic this is what you would do.It gave the government the numbers to continue to justify extreme measures.This was replicated world wide,even in Sweden who have admitted they got it wrong

135797 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #423 of 1680 🔗

Yes, even Sweden weren’t perfect in this. But they got everything else broadly right which we certainly didn’t.

135800 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #424 of 1680 🔗

Admitted early that they had made a mistake – that is also important to note.

135810 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #425 of 1680 🔗

Also they have realised the psychological effects on the elderly and are lifting the ban on visits in a couple of weeks – although in practice visits have been allowed in the open air over the summer.. I’ve seen photos of people sitting at tables in the sun with their relatives, albeit with a perspex screen on the table between them!

135959 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Stuart, #426 of 1680 🔗

These figures require further unpacking.

The ‘dry tinder’ factor, for instance, is very important – a large number of ‘survivors’ following the previous weak infection season.

136098 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Stuart, #427 of 1680 🔗

Beginning to think that the current insanity is part of a ‘cunning plan’ to obscure that horror. Of course it just increases the collateral damage but that’s a bit further off and perhaps, they hope, easier to cover up.

135770 Awkward Git, 10, #428 of 1680 🔗

Today’s Dilbert is great, cheered me up

135780 Lord Rickmansworth, #429 of 1680 🔗

RAPS RANT AND COVID JAZZ!

All in the latest episode of ‘The Real Normal’

Ep.06 NORF FC LOCKDOWN

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

135784 snippet, replying to snippet, #430 of 1680 🔗

“The University of Cambridge is to offer all students living in college accommodation a weekly test for infection with SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, even if they show no symptoms.”

https://www.cam.ac.uk/news/cambridge-university-to-provide-weekly-coronavirus-testing-for-students-resident-in-colleges

135789 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to snippet, #431 of 1680 🔗

Where are they getting their test kits from I wonder?

135792 ▶▶ snippet, replying to snippet, #432 of 1680 🔗

totally confusing message in Oldham: come forward ‘even if you don’t have symptoms,’ but govt policy advises only get tested if you have symptoms – which is the correct policy?

https://twitter.com/carlheneghan/status/1306606280417701889

135796 ▶▶ snippet, replying to snippet, 1, #433 of 1680 🔗

The beginnings of the moonshot. What’s the bet that universities will be the testing ground for compulsory digital health passports?

135807 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to snippet, #434 of 1680 🔗

And they’ve already got the students to sign consents – easy to add extra clauses..

135811 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to snippet, #435 of 1680 🔗

“offer”

135823 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mattghg, #436 of 1680 🔗

Yes, ‘offer’ or actually ‘mandate’…as per the agreement the students had to sign up to..

135786 Basics, 11, #437 of 1680 🔗

Ivor Cummins 8/9
Excellent Video
971k views – 40k over night
https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac

Ivor Cmmins has released a video explaining why a junior doctors views about the above video are wrong. Ivor Cummins is factuaal, concise and damning in his clarity.

I’ll stop reposting at a million views – there may be new eyes lookimg in each day.

135791 Mark, replying to Mark, 15, #438 of 1680 🔗

Lockdown zealot Times columnist David Aaronovitch has written a column entitled “Covid libertarians are a danger to us all” about why he thinks “Boris Johnson is right and Lord Sumption is wrong” .

David Aaronovitch is one of those Blairites, like Dan Hodges, whom it is always encouraging to find oneself in opposition to, because they are pretty reliably wrong on almost every important aspect of life, and politics.

As inveterate Iraq War apologists and warmongers, they are about as despicable as it is possible to get without actually giving the orders to murder people directly, and as snivelling authority-worshippers, they are personally contemptible, to boot. Best thing to do with them, frankly, as long as you clean it off carefully afterwards.

And yes, this is ad hominem. Who can resist such easy targets, especially when their actual positions are so laughably divorced from reality?

135873 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark, 2, #439 of 1680 🔗

“a danger to us all”

He doesn’t believe in evidence then.

135794 Kev, replying to Kev, #440 of 1680 🔗

Statute – Legislative rule of Society given the force of law by consent of the governed

All Covid laws are statutes, they are not Common Law, which is the jurisdiction of the UK. Statutes require consent, the police cannot enforce statutes without consent – although they do, which is a deriliction of duty.

The Oath of Office is to serve and protect the public and uphold the (common) law – not statues

135808 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Kev, #441 of 1680 🔗

They can protect statues all they like 😀

136111 ▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to CGL, 1, #442 of 1680 🔗

But they haven’t been of late as dear old Caribbean-focused, Bristol-based, merchant Edward Coulson can testify.

136585 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CGL, 2, #443 of 1680 🔗

Not wanting to get at you
But you have to be astute
To tell a statue
From a statute.

136687 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, #444 of 1680 🔗

Clever clogs!

135799 mhcp, 4, #445 of 1680 🔗

Was just reading about Victoria on ZeroHedge and interestingly in the comments it mentioned that the state is using private security forces to help enforce the lockdown.

So this is a mess created by the local politicians and they’re having trouble putting the genie back in the bottle.

In other words they have a Black and Tans situation

Is it a surprise then?

135803 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 8, #446 of 1680 🔗

So more threatened lockdowns to prevent NHS being overwhelmed. It didn’t get close the first time so why now? Has Ferguson predicted an even more catastrophic second wave. So sick is this.

135814 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fed up, 2, #447 of 1680 🔗

Three weeks to delay has morphed into forever to eradicate. Cause the Kiwis did it. Oh yeah…they should have locked down it harder, earlier and longer! All hail The Science (TM) I guess.

135815 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Fed up, 1, #448 of 1680 🔗

The proof will be in the numbers.

Where are the real NHS numbers?

Hancock himself suggested that 2 wasn’t the right number for Bolton.

So what is?

135820 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to hotrod, 3, #449 of 1680 🔗

I’m not sure the numbers matter anymore, just a rentlessly pushed narrative.

135849 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to hotrod, 5, #450 of 1680 🔗

It was never about the numbers. The numbers didnt and dont add when you consider that an excess 51K people died of flu in 2018 alone. This is about pushing the narrative with whatever end game they have in mind.

135819 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 2, #451 of 1680 🔗

Did anyone watch Question Time last night? I can’t stand it but I’ve heard that Sunetra Gupta was on. How did it go?

135822 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mattghg, 1, #452 of 1680 🔗

There are comments on the ‘tail end’ of yesterday’s thread!

135837 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Carrie, #453 of 1680 🔗

Ta.

135852 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to mattghg, #454 of 1680 🔗

Looking at the Twitter feed for question time, there are people calling Sunetra Gupta dangerous.

135891 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to p02099003, #456 of 1680 🔗

https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1306863914882301954 As this guy says, Sunetra could get a work permit in Sweden very quickly if she wanted 😉

135904 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to p02099003, 3, #457 of 1680 🔗

Fucking hell, she isn’t as dangerous as halving the number of daily cancer diagnoses…

136033 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to p02099003, #458 of 1680 🔗

Thought criminals always are.

135866 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mattghg, 7, #459 of 1680 🔗

She appeared very nervous to start with, but got into her stride. John Caudwell was brilliant. Zahawi was his usual wittering self. Ashworth ditto, but went off like a rocket when Caudwell called him out for his faux concern about the virus/restrictions (you are just scoring political points). The author (Nicci French) was ok, but a bit wet.

Important point – Caudwell was the biggest donor to the Tory party at last election. His comments on lockdown come after Sir Mick Davis important piece in Telegraph last week. Simon Wolfson – another Tory supporter – has also broken cover this morning to criticise WFH. The big business Tory supporters will bring Boris and the government down if they have to, and the 1922 Committee know that.

135870 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #460 of 1680 🔗

What’s WFH?

135876 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Carrie, #461 of 1680 🔗

Work(ing) From Home probably.

135886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, #462 of 1680 🔗

Thanks! I should’ve realised that!

135880 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 1, #463 of 1680 🔗

Sorry – Work From Home (dashing out!)

135894 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #464 of 1680 🔗

Maybe a chink of light then?

135901 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #465 of 1680 🔗

I wish they’d just get on with it!

135824 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 16, #466 of 1680 🔗

There used to be a tenuous connection between us plebs down here, and the big decision-makers, ‘up there’. If only through emailing MPs, local party chairmen, councillors, and always an election of one sort or another by way of which a ‘view’ could be sent on up the line. It might be just me, or has all that paraphernalia of democracy just …. gone? Never have I felt so much like I’m being crushed under a boot.

135829 ▶▶ Julian, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #467 of 1680 🔗

I think if enough people protested to their MPs, things would change. But it needs to be hundreds of thousands to make a difference

They got bullied into doing Brexit by voter pressure

135839 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Julian, 2, #468 of 1680 🔗

Not my MP. Not replying to anything. He only ever represented a small Corbynista section of his constituents though. The rest of us are scum. Lloyd Russell-Moyles, since you ask.

135861 ▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to Julian, 5, #469 of 1680 🔗

Most MPs, going by comments on here, don’t bother to even reply. Mine doesn’t but I keep on trying

135895 ▶▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to EllGee, 1, #470 of 1680 🔗

I told mine not to reply unless he was going to actually address my points and not give me vacuous drivel. He didn’t reply….

135831 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #471 of 1680 🔗

They are in a psychological bunker and cannot be dissuaded.

Only mass non-compliance will work. Or a vaccine.

135902 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to jhfreedom, #472 of 1680 🔗

I’m thinking a vaccine isn’t going to work. In the golden bullet sense. The academic institution, pharma bought, scientists are starting to wriggle. Drifting out the idea that a single Vaccine Rex isn’t going to happen. Indivudual health circumstances are likely to require one a variety of possible vaccine efforts they say.

Extrapolating from this range of vaccine senario the kind of ‘immunity’ each person has will be different. Test and trace then becomes an unholy, unworkable bureaucracy of daily, weekly monitoring. Essentially this golden bullet is a fantasy and the wheels have already fallen off they just haven’t told us yet.

How about that for positive – the fall of Vaccine Rex! One vaccine to rule them all is no more, imo.

135935 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 2, #473 of 1680 🔗

A safe vaccine in the sort of timescale suggested is a nonsense. It is also unlikely anyway for this virus- and unnecessary.

135966 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, #474 of 1680 🔗

100% agree.

It the phantom of a vaccine has been given as the key to unlocking this disaster. It’s not happening.

136207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Basics, #475 of 1680 🔗

But from a pragmatic point of view don’t we just want something with the name ‘vaccine’ so that this can be ended. Who cares if it actually WORKS…as long as it doesn’t kill too many people in the process. I see it as a placebo, efficacy doesn’t come into it.

136266 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #476 of 1680 🔗

Not keen on that at all. The creation of vaccination systems to sail us away from this point. I would say is a very dangerous precedent. The vaccination program is coming with all manner of associated societal change. No point having the vaccine if you can not prove you’ve had it.

136497 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Basics, #477 of 1680 🔗

Falsify the ‘proof’ document? And get a paper version by saying you don’t have a smartphone.

135897 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #478 of 1680 🔗

Good points. You’re certainly not on your own in feeling that democracy has departed these shores.

135830 justmeabc, replying to justmeabc, 2, #479 of 1680 🔗

How do I nominate a theme song? Do I just post it here?

Average White Band – Let’s go round again

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AkGZmmrLFAU

135845 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to justmeabc, #480 of 1680 🔗

Great song – one of the best in a disco!

135832 Basics, replying to Basics, 43, #481 of 1680 🔗

Denise Welch on Twitter this morning. She’s really giving it a go.

“Also if more people with voices and blue ticks would voice their disgust at how EVERYTHING is now sacrificed for COVID we might have a f…..g chance of turning this around. Cancer, 500 a day, heart failure, 450 a day, sepsis 110 a day, suicide 30 a day ( and climbing) Poverty!!”

135844 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Basics, 12, #482 of 1680 🔗

Never been a fan but it takes courage in her position to get out there and say these things.

135848 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 9, #483 of 1680 🔗

I agree completely, I’ve never seen her act but she has huge moral fibre – that’s enough to get me to see her in panto next year… mibby.

136846 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Basics, 3, #484 of 1680 🔗

She’s a dam good actress, but that doesn’t alter the thrust of what she is saying. We need many more like her.

136845 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 1, #485 of 1680 🔗

Things are that bad that people have absolutely nothing to lose by speaking out. Silence will only allow the government to speed up the depopulation agenda. Bill Gates always wants value for money.

135843 Lms23, 7, #486 of 1680 🔗

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EjTHzanq4TE
Tucker Carlson, last night’s show. Watch the opening monologue if nothing else (and it’ll be removed later today, so watch it early). The corona virus has been far less damaging than the politicians’ reactions to it. They’re just as illogical, dishonest, and damaging on the other side of the Atlantic.

135846 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 3, #487 of 1680 🔗

If those dying and at risk are from care homes surely tightening all rules around those homes would make logical sense?

135862 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to hotrod, 1, #488 of 1680 🔗

That would make a lot of sense, but for some reason it seems it wouldn’t be considered “fair” for the people in care homes.

How hard would it actually be to ringfence care homes and screen everyone going in and out? It would certainly be more cost effective than forcing the entire population to put their lives on hold and suffer the longer term consequences.

135874 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Nobody2020, #489 of 1680 🔗

New rules on Carehomes come in today.

Dreadful for all concerned.

However the outcome could be very beneficial.

135879 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 2, #490 of 1680 🔗

And yet in Sweden they are lifting the ban on care home visits in 2 weeks’ time!

135914 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Carrie, #491 of 1680 🔗

Isn’t herd immunity a wonderful thing… I meant to ask, Carrie, what is the Swedish attitude, in your opinion, to a potential vaccine?

135927 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 2, #492 of 1680 🔗

I haven’t really asked many people, but the ones I have talked to are worried about the safety aspect – unsurprising given the take-up of the swine flu was high here and so there were a lot of narcolepsy cases.

We have not been told whether it will be mandatory or voluntary, only that healthcare workers and risk groups will be likely offered it first..

A fair few people seem to be aware that Covid is likely less dangerous than we have been told..

136175 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Carrie, #493 of 1680 🔗

Hi Carrie. Been wondering about this issue myself. Sweden does already have a fairly heavy routine vaccine schedule, I believe. Don’t know if your childhood vaccines are parental choice?
AstraZeneca (Oxford vaccine AZD1222) is an Anglo-Swedish company interestingly.

136099 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #494 of 1680 🔗

I just don’t understand the argument that you can’t expect people in care homes to be isolated for so long, so the solution is to instead make everyone else AND people in care homes to be isolated indefinitely… huh?

135909 ▶▶ Will, replying to hotrod, 2, #495 of 1680 🔗

Unless your country has developed herd immunity 🇸🇪

136029 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to hotrod, 2, #496 of 1680 🔗

How about asking the people in the care homes what degree of risk they wish to take? So they can balance quality of life, basic human dignity and kindness, on the one hand, against death from a virus on the other. Bearing in mind they’re going to die of something pretty soon anyway.

I know which I would choose. And I would want to be looked after in the meantime by people who care.

135855 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #497 of 1680 🔗

I always thought science was based on evidence. You have a hypothesis you let things play out and determine how right or wrong you were based on the evidence. Somehow it’s been turned into make a prediction, don’t allow it to happen then claim that the science was right because what you predicted didn’t happen.

135884 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #498 of 1680 🔗

Most science is now religious dogma, or politics driven.

They decide on a conclusion they want and attempt to find an hypothesis to match, when that fails they lie, obfuscate and shut down dissent (deniers).

The null hypotesis that masks will not sop the spread of the virus is being proven, as was the null hypothesis that lockdowns will not stop the spread and save lives.

Because – Sweden

136103 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Kev, #499 of 1680 🔗

To paraphrase Huxley – the slaying of the beautiful hypothesis that Masks slow viral spread by the ugly old Flu

136100 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #500 of 1680 🔗

Not exactly. Science is based on a philosophical method called the Scientific Method. The part about evidence is relevant if your initial concept and assumptions involve evidence gathering. This may sound a bit deep and confusing but in really means you can have hard evidence-based science with deeply hypothetical science. As long as the conclusions flow from the assumptions and measurements/exercising then it can be considered valid.

However valid scientifically is not the same as valid in the real world. The point of science is exploring the “What If?”. When the What If becomes a prediction/projection then it needs bounding with some real data, as well as having methods of data gathering that will allow predicted variations to be seen.

That’s why you have the Theoriticians and the Empricists/Rationalists. You can spend your whole life in a theoretical bubble (see String Theory)

136627 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to mhcp, #501 of 1680 🔗

Science can never be “objective” It will inevitably reflect the views or bias of the experimenter.

135858 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 8, #502 of 1680 🔗

Just about to make a much needed holiday booking for a client and get this:

However! I spoke with a friend last night who is a surgeon in London and they’ve been told to cancel all elective surgeries indicating a second lockdown!

I give up!

136242 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Sarigan, 1, #503 of 1680 🔗

I’ve just come back from Greece after being indecisive about the airports and masks etc – but 10 days on a lovely greek island and basking in the Ionian sea and sunshine was the best tonic and best decision ever!! It felt fairly normal there and relaxed and only wore masks in supermarket.
The BA flight out on was 3 quarters full, and on the return full, so there are tourists just getting on with it despite the fear mongering of the media to put people off travelling!
So my message to anyone thinking of vacation and can is to go for it – worry about lockdowns etc if/when they happen!

135863 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #504 of 1680 🔗
136061 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to p02099003, #505 of 1680 🔗

I feel I’ve been transported back to March,meanwhile in Sweden

135868 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 3, #506 of 1680 🔗

How are they going to fill all these ‘cleared’ hospital beds? False flags?

135938 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to 2 pence, 1, #508 of 1680 🔗

Yes, saw that back in the Spring – very revealing!

136074 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to 2 pence, 2, #509 of 1680 🔗

Crisis actors.

136125 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Bugle, 2, #510 of 1680 🔗

All those unemployed actors who aren’t working due to the lockdown,

135872 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 8, #511 of 1680 🔗

Where I live, the south west, there are currently 13 hospitalisation, with 1 on a ventilator. There are 17 major hospitals and 34 other hospital facilities (community hospitals, eye hospitals etc). So currently there is less than 1 C19 patient per major hospital. Shock horror, where’s my damp dirty rag to put over my nose and mouth. (They don’t tell you the age of those 13 hospitalisation). Also how many of those 13 will die?

135878 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #512 of 1680 🔗

But even one case (whatever that means) is too many according to the preachers of cOvIdZeRo. If it just saves one life, it’s worth it.

135881 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to DRW, 5, #513 of 1680 🔗

1 covid death is worth 1000 cancer deaths at the latest market price.

135888 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to DRW, 4, #514 of 1680 🔗

How many lives will be sacrificed (to other causes) to save one life from Covid?

135889 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Kev, 1, #515 of 1680 🔗

Exactly. And will this saved life really be saved from Covid or saved from another illness disguised as Covid?

135899 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Victoria, #516 of 1680 🔗

People should be asking them that

135907 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to DRW, 2, #517 of 1680 🔗

We will never know, because they changed the adequately effective method of reporting deaths and requiremenmts for post-mortem.

As a new (novel) disease Covid-19 should have required post-mortem designations as actual “cause of death”, unless it has very unique and easily identifiable indicators/symptoms.

135922 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to DRW, #518 of 1680 🔗

It’s ridiculous. There is no arguing with these people. We just need to convert those in the middle who aren’t so stupid as to believe this. Then it will be a minority group like those shouting to remain 4 years on, yes they have very strong views but in reality they can’t make a difference, hopefully the same will happen here.

136001 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Youth_Unheard, #519 of 1680 🔗

Indeed. Funny how SM never gave a flying duck about annual flu deaths but it’s a trendy virtue party now.

135896 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Smelly Melly, #520 of 1680 🔗

Surprised it’s that many.

Can I ask were you get the data? I’m in Devon and would like to get to this sort of information regularly.

136052 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to TJN, 1, #521 of 1680 🔗

Not sure where you get the bang up to date figures, but the September report (Excel spreadsheet) accessed under ‘Hospital Activity’ here
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/
gives you line by line, hospital by hospital, daily data up to 3 September.

136068 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to BTLnewbie, #522 of 1680 🔗

Yes, I have the September one (not sure if we are supposed to have it). Fascinating, which has given me the appetite for updates.

136235 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to BTLnewbie, #523 of 1680 🔗

interesting spreadsheet – thanks for the link!
Lots of worksheets and includes hospital staff absenteeism due to virus – seems to be more controlled now compared to the peak in april!

135875 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 3, #524 of 1680 🔗

Just listening to yesterday’s Richie Allen show, very interesting and well worth a listen.

https://youtu.be/wuMZaBL-M80

135918 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #525 of 1680 🔗

Good stuff. Here’s the podomatic link – easier to download and therefore may help people avoid listening to R4 on the move!
https://richieallen.podomatic.com/

135883 Nobody2020, 6, #526 of 1680 🔗

A study on the return of University Students at Umea Uni in Sweden:

Practically no spread of infection on campus at the start of the semester
https://www.umu.se/en/news/practically-no-spread-of-infection-on-campus-at-the-start-of-the-semester_9598148/

135903 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #527 of 1680 🔗

The idea of Herd Immunity is unpalatable to many. It would likely involve too many deaths, particularly if the mind is already set on the “one death is too many” idea.

Many believe that it is a point where the virus is eradicated, which is what I would call the book definition. Those who consider it as thus tend to assume that going for any immunity is a bad idea. Why else would they think total suppression or eradiction of the virus is the only option?

I will call these people “Immunity Deniers”. The simple fact is that any immunity is useful and it can be built up steadily whilst protecting the most vulnerable.

In theory it could be possible to have enough people with a level of immunity to slow down or stop the spread of the virus. This is most likely the situation in Sweden.

I think it may be a good idea to stop talking about Herd Immunity (the definition assumed by many) and just promote the idea that any immunity is useful.

135910 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #528 of 1680 🔗

The Science (TM) is settled, you can only get to herd immunity from a vaccine now, millions need to die for that. All hail The Science (TM)

135920 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #529 of 1680 🔗

This line should have read:

In theory it could be possible to have enough people with a level of immunity to slow down or stop the spread of the virus with zero or very little deaths . This is most likely the situation in Sweden ( how people consider the numbers of dead is debatable ).

135921 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #530 of 1680 🔗

Yes most people don’t realise that immunity is the reason we’re all still walking around as a species and we pay for that immunity with lives every day and always have done.

“By the toll of a billion deaths man has bought his birthright of the earth, and it is his against all comers; it would still be his were the Martians ten times as mighty as they are. For neither do men live nor die in vain.” War of the Worlds.

136082 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Achilles, #531 of 1680 🔗

Exactly, reality is unpalatable to many.

136110 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Achilles, #532 of 1680 🔗

Not only humans but every multicell organism has some sort of immune system. There are traits that we share with insects for example, including the basic pattern matching cells. Also some of the early “infections” became symbiotic, e.g. mitochondria.

135905 mjr, replying to mjr, 12, #533 of 1680 🔗

weekly update..

The ongoing discussion with Aldi. You may recall this –
Aldi told me “ We are not forcing our staff to wear masks and it will not end in disciplinary action if they do not wear a mask.” so i mentioned this to staff when i went to Aldi last Friday (and forwarded the email).
Today, went to Aldi. All staff on the floor wearing masks. They told me nothing had come from Head Office. As far as they were aware the Aldi policy had not changed.
So today I will email Aldi and ask them if the are lying to me or lying to their staff.

Drove past junior school at start time. Didnt see a single masked person. However in Aldi and the shopping centre most people masked. Spoke to one lady who said she had bronchitis and did not want to wear a mask but did so to avoid confrontation. Told her to come here for exemption and lanyard details .

135955 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 10, #534 of 1680 🔗

emailed Aldi.. raised the question with them (and copied full email trail to Toby)

“So, following on from the email trail below, i did mention your response to Aldi staff when i visited the store (and showed them the email). As mentioned , they were still following the policy that you instructed them to follow back in August. I am not sure whether any of them took this forward

Anyway , went to Aldi this morning . Saw that all the staff on the floor still wearing masks. I did ask and was told that nothing has been said to them since last week.

So, the original policy seems to still be in force.

The question remains .. As your response to me last week was clearly incorrect and does not reflect what appears to be happening, are you lying to me or are you lying to your staff.?

Maybe you should refer to George Orwell who in the book 1984 identified the concept of “doublethink” which is “the act of holding, simultaneously, two opposite, individually exclusive ideas or opinions and believing in both simultaneously and absolutely. Doublethink requires using logic against logic or suspending disbelief in the contradiction”.

Aldi are holding the contradictory views that “you are not forcing staff to wear masks” yet the policy staff still have to follow is that “masks must be worn by staff whilst on the shop floor”

Would you like to explain this to me please

136195 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, 1, #535 of 1680 🔗

Sorry for tardiness mjr, too much going on. 🙁

We asked our local (Lewes) Aldi staff about this, after seeing your first email. They too have been told masks mandatory on shop floor.

136026 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 7, #536 of 1680 🔗

also forgot to mention. .going round Aldi unmasked. there was a masked mother with a toddler (18months > 2 year old ) in the trolley. Kid could not stop looking at me .. he was fascinated. Every time he looked at me i smiled… and he smiled back.. everybody in store masked.. it must have been so unusual for him.

136211 ▶▶ Edward, replying to mjr, 4, #537 of 1680 🔗

In my local Aldi this morning, one of a few bare faces among the zombies. Amused to hear a slight altercation between two of the latter, one accusing the other of not having kept their distance enough. But I thought these wonderful masks granted immortality?

135908 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 2, #538 of 1680 🔗

My grandparents are dead, does anyone have a spare?

135919 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to stefarm, 2, #539 of 1680 🔗

How can that be when lockdown fans have willed that nobody must die?

135936 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #540 of 1680 🔗

They died years ago when people sadly but were allowed to die. 2 died before I was born.

135950 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to stefarm, 2, #541 of 1680 🔗

maybe they will make coronavirus retrospective to make the figures look good. My grandad died many years ago with pneumonia as the main factor. He was 95 .
It may well have been coronovirus though.
Maybe the government have someone trawling through death certificates looking for likely canditates
And sorry , no spare grandparents.

136073 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to mjr, 3, #542 of 1680 🔗

England and Wales figures went negative in August when the perpetual C-19 cause of death error was adjusted. Praise the Lord!

136116 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to mjr, 1, #543 of 1680 🔗

“maybe they will make coronavirus retrospective to make the figures look good.”

Rather like the Mormons baptising people after they have died!

135913 Derek Toyne, replying to Derek Toyne, 6, #544 of 1680 🔗

Hello,
I watching QT last night and was really disappointed that the two politicians slagged off the Oxford professor for daring to say herd immunity. It may not be political correct to say allow the virus to spread through the community or her views differ from other scientists but to be so dismissive beggars belief. Maybe that’s why so many people have given up on politics and just follow the rules for an easy life. But it’s obvious to us all lockdown as failed but if you think about it couldn’t do anything else. Yes it probably saved lives and the nhs and for awhile stopped the virus but as expected it’s once again spreading. The thing about lockdown is there not meant
to stop a pandemic they meant to gain you time to build up capacity to treat all the infected people. Only by allowing the virus to spread through healthy people as occurred in Sweden do you build up herd immunity to the point where the virus is no more lethal. So now where heading towards Christmas and probably another lockdown having learnt nothing of how to deal with covid. As for the much awaited vaccine the politicians have really got to understand it’s not the magic bullet they claim it is.
In the US of 180000 deaths due to covid 170000 were people who had two or more health problems so a vaccine would save 10000 lives.I don’t know how many lives in the US have been lost due to lockdown there, but in the UK it’s believed 16000 have died already due to lockdown. Maybe Boris is a spent force but if he could just look into himself accept he made a mistake by following the lockdown scientists. And be bold once again we could get out of the mess covid as caused and celebrate Christmas as world beating country. Let’s hope!

136066 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Derek Toyne, 5, #545 of 1680 🔗

Many deaths in USA from the banning of HCQ (because Trump). Let’s hope there’s a reckoning. Much of this madness, as with so much of everything else, comes from there fueled by insane anti-Trump obsession and lust for power by any means neccessary.

135923 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #546 of 1680 🔗

Let’s stop calling it Herd Immunity (which makes us sound like cattle) and start calling it Adult Immunity (adults realise you can’t hide from sickness, you have to live with it).

135940 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Lucan Grey, #547 of 1680 🔗

Species immunity? Population immunity? Social immunity? Community immunity?

135944 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to p02099003, #548 of 1680 🔗

crowd immunity?

135949 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to p02099003, #549 of 1680 🔗

Common sense or in reality common sense immunity

136054 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to p02099003, 2, #550 of 1680 🔗

Community Immunity gets my vote.

136139 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to p02099003, #551 of 1680 🔗

HIT or collective immunity. Herd immunity has been used and abused for months now. Part of the problem is that when you reach the threshold, it is difficult to verify by scientific measurement. Just measuring the percentage of those with antibodies by serology, gives you an artificially low figure so is pretty useless, because it ignores other immunity mechanisms.

135954 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lucan Grey, #552 of 1680 🔗

I think we should just stop talking about herd immunity, as many people think of it as the ideal state where a virus is effectively eradicated, and just promote the idea of general immunity.

Or as Einstein may have called it “The general theory of immunity”

135964 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #553 of 1680 🔗

I agreed that the adjective ‘herd’ is unhelpful. The substitution of ‘population’ would do.

136101 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #554 of 1680 🔗

Flock immunity for the sheeple

135924 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #555 of 1680 🔗

Turns out during all 4 epidemics prior to COVID-19 since 2000, CDC & WHO were concerned about the high false-positive rates for PCR tests & issued guidelines to try and minimize them. But for C19, both somehow forgot all about PCR false-positive rates:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.26.20080911v3.full.pdf

135972 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sarigan, 1, #556 of 1680 🔗

Thanks for this link – great information. Hancock, all his ‘clever’ advisors are aware of this, and they have chosen to ignore it.

Fixing the problem

The impact of false positives in SARS-CoV-2 testing could be mitigated by increasing the awareness of false positives; by improving estimates of false positive rates with appropriately- designed EQAs, or by assessing results retrospectively with serological tests; and by reducing the frequency of false positives by requiring two independent positive tests to diagnose an individual as infected.

Like all tests, PCR-based assays are subject to error that includes both false negative and false positive results. A successful testing program must understand the error rates and use tests appropriately. While SARS-CoV-2 testing to date has clearly missed the mark, we can course- correct: we can reassess plans for group-testing or mass-testing using realistic estimates of the potential range of false-positive rates; reconsider the conclusions of studies that implicitly assumed a zero false positive rate; and reduce misdiagnoses and statistical miscounts by confirming positive results with a second independent test, especially in asymptomatic persons and in areas where test positivity is low. In the interim, where mass-testing or group-testing has been conducted without regard to symptoms or exposure—notably in certain regions, congregate-living facilities, workplaces and sports leagues—positive results in healthy individuals that haven’t been confirmed by a second test should be considered suspect.

135925 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #557 of 1680 🔗

Chucking in this because I don’t know the answer. If anyone has an explanation please reply

PCR false positives. The suggestion is that 1% to 2% are false positives. In theory then all current positives could false positives

Going back to March/April. I have disregarded those deaths that were certified as COVID but where no test took place

How many of the deaths attributed to covid (because of a positive test) were false positives?

The point I’m making is how many of the recorded covid deaths (with a positive test result) were actually attributable to flu, pneumonia, or some other cause?

135926 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Cecil B, #558 of 1680 🔗

Once you get to all false positives the percentage +ve line goes mostly flat. At the moment it is up and down. That change is real cases.

135934 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Lucan Grey, #559 of 1680 🔗

Apologies, don’t understand your explanation, would you please expand

135961 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #560 of 1680 🔗

Not necessarily – don’t forget that different test locations use different numbers of cycles, and, in any case, the false positives are essentially random events so that their frequency will vary.

135991 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to IanE, 1, #561 of 1680 🔗

Not sure they are random in the true sense but even so if they are random with a fixed probability then the proportion from a large sample should be fixed.

e.g. Assume no covid infections in UK but PCR testing with 99% specificity continues then 1% of tests will show positive, i.e. the proportion will be (very) close to 1% in any large sample.

135971 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #562 of 1680 🔗

I agree. There is a trend. We might not know the exact numbers but the increase in TRUE positives looks to be real.

136051 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 1, #563 of 1680 🔗

I doubt that I am alone in lacking your confidence:

‘1. There is considerable diversity of molecular platforms, reagents, kits and assay performance conditions in PHE and NHS laboratories providing SARS-CoV-2 molecular detection

2. There is evidence of quality assurance difficulties for key reagents due to global supply chain issues

3. Shortages of swabs and transport medium have led to local variations in sampling practice which may impact on assay performance through the introduction of inhibitors into biochemical reactions

4. There is no evidence of viral genetic drift as a basis for altered sensitivity of assay

5. Enzyme performance from external suppliers has degraded compared with original validation performance.’

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zoki1xUKuY15JmPujZXd-mMjXn0K_2GM/view

Do we think, for example, that ‘global supply chain issues’ are likely to have disappeared as the global panic has intensified since this document was issued?

136268 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #564 of 1680 🔗

I’m not sure any of your 5 points explains the uptick over the last 3 or 4 weeks. Note this is an uptick which is similar to the Covid Symptom study & now the ONS survey.

It’s probably not a concern yet but a continuation of the trend will be.

135931 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 14, #565 of 1680 🔗

With regard to the Simon Dolan case being postponed due to a lawyer’s holiday, but the positive being that the case will now be properly done in a courtroom in a month’s time….. surely that implies that the case was going to be heard via video link of some sort, and – that being the case – the lawyer can participate from where ever they have gone on holiday?

135933 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to TyLean, 4, #566 of 1680 🔗

Don’t be daft, they can’t think of such simple solutions!!

135939 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #567 of 1680 🔗

Haha! Silly me, I actually forgot for a moment that it’s all the bloody plan! I must admit, it was a blissful moment.

135941 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to TyLean, 10, #568 of 1680 🔗

It’s nice to know that the whole country has to put it’d freedoms on hold while someone gets a suntan.

135945 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Achilles, 5, #569 of 1680 🔗

One rule for me and another for thee.

135943 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to TyLean, 10, #570 of 1680 🔗

Personally I think it is a lie, and that the government wanted to extend the coronavirus act and bring in the 2nd lockdown before the hearing, in order to add weight to their case (which is about proportionality)

135976 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Carrie, 4, #571 of 1680 🔗

Indeed…. all much too convenient. And when they return from holiday, it will be all quarantines and covid tests, and WHOOPS…. they’re positive! Two more weeks then. As if they can’t function with only 10 solicitors or find anyone to replace them. It’s pathetic. As IanE said above, justice delayed is justice denied.

136090 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, 3, #572 of 1680 🔗

I think it’s definitely a lie. Who goes on holiday in September, without it being pre-planned? They are acting like it’s taken them by surprise. And there’s hardly anywhere left to go on holiday to anyway without having to lock yourself up for 2 weeks before and after.

136283 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #573 of 1680 🔗

Exactly… Can we do an FOI to find out who it is? or might Simon know? His paperwork might narrow it down, if he has the names of the 12 lawyers…

135947 ▶▶ IanE, replying to TyLean, 4, #574 of 1680 🔗

Justice deferred is justice denied: not, of course, that any judges will, nowadays, accept Dolan’s case.

135965 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to TyLean, 10, #575 of 1680 🔗

Great question. We experienced these tactics previously with a court case with our freeholder.

I am amazed that it is allowed when they have more than 1 lawyer. Is it legal?

What about a FOI request?

  • Who is the lawyer?
  • When did he/she decided to go on holiday?
  • If on or before the court date was announced, why did he/she not notify the court on the same date?
  • If after the court date was announced why did he/she not notify the court immediately (not the day before the court case)? Also why plan a holiday if you have to be in court on that specific date?
  • etc
135974 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Victoria, 6, #576 of 1680 🔗

Yes, the point about not notifying the court that you would be on holiday until a week before the holiday….. surely that’s behaviour deeply frowned upon? Unless, of course, it’s useful to them!

135932 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 13, #577 of 1680 🔗

I am so fed up of the idea that because we aren’t all at the same risk, we all need to give up what we have because some people have frankly just been dealt a worse hand health-wise in life. It’s the same thing with far left ideologies, if a few have better things, the only logical solution is to make sure no one has any good things, therefore equality. Simples.

135985 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #578 of 1680 🔗

I can get enough simplistic nonsense from Hancock and Whitty.

136057 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #579 of 1680 🔗

Isn’t that the definition of ‘crony capitalism’ though – it certainly isn’t free market capitalism as per Chicago School/Hayekian economics?

136064 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Youth_Unheard, #580 of 1680 🔗

If I can’t have it, you can’t have it either. As someone who grew up in the socialist republic of North Tyneside in the 1970s, I concur. That’s why we no longer have grammar schools in this country.

136113 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Youth_Unheard, -1, #581 of 1680 🔗

It is never stated publicly and most on the left are in denial about it but it would be the outcome of implementation the economic and social policies of the left.

135948 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #582 of 1680 🔗

More shit on the way for Lancashire (but not Blackpool??). Somebody kill them now, please.

135973 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #583 of 1680 🔗

We wont listen, we haven so far.

135978 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wayno, 2, #584 of 1680 🔗

I’m with you, but it depends on how difficult they make it. No doubt, it will be police over reach time again.

135982 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #585 of 1680 🔗

Saw this, why not Blackpool??, isn’t it about time the zombified masses starting smelling a rat as it is now putrid

135989 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to stefarm, 2, #586 of 1680 🔗

illuminations are on… rona doesnt like bright lights.. maybe its a gizmo

136137 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to stefarm, #587 of 1680 🔗

It’s a separate authority from Lancashire County Council.

136537 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cicatriz, #588 of 1680 🔗

correct .. Blackpool is a unitary authority and so nothing to do with Lancashire . and all these local downs are done on a local government basis rather than geographical .

135953 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 10, #589 of 1680 🔗

Julia Hartley Brewer goes in hard here on false positive rates etc. Hancock is such a pompous patronising lying prick.

Matt Hancock does not rule out second national lockdown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEqm0ldWf-8

135957 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 13, #590 of 1680 🔗

“Does not rule out” ….. translation from Scum to English: “Will announce in a matter of days.”

135960 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to TyLean, 2, #591 of 1680 🔗

Exactly!

135987 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 6, #592 of 1680 🔗

just listened to this. appalling. JHB asked some good questions but did not press on obvious errors such as swedens lockdown.
As Mark Twain didnt say … there are Lies, Damned Lies , and Health Minister’s answers

135997 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to mjr, 3, #593 of 1680 🔗

You can tell she’s under time pressure unfortunately – she wasn’t able to nail some of the stuff the health secretary claimed – the numbers in the hospitals for one. Crikey he is truly dreadful.

136062 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #594 of 1680 🔗

I some ways all she needs to do is ask the questions – no need to wait for the answers (which we know will be rubbish)… She just needs to point out the illogicalities, like she did with the health minister yesterday regarding curfews..
Just by doing that she can wake people up!

136059 ▶▶ CGL, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #595 of 1680 🔗

Wish I could watch this but just looking at him makes me physically sick

136087 ▶▶ Will, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #596 of 1680 🔗

Hancock could not lie straight in bed…

135958 CGL, replying to CGL, 30, #597 of 1680 🔗

I have never been closer to a nervous breakdown. I literally can’t cope any longer with the torture they are putting us through. I will never forgive what they are doing to our country, our children’s futures and the hundreds of thousands of lives and livelihoods that are being and will be lost for no reason.

136004 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to CGL, 15, #598 of 1680 🔗

It may sound trite but I would recommend focusing on you, even doing something like starting to do flexible exercises and basic strength training. Eat better and walk more. It sounds trite like I said but there is little we can do except endure. Keep chipping away by example. Because when this shit hits the fan it will be the strong and the strong-willed who survive.

136926 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to mhcp, #599 of 1680 🔗

Good advice, but things are now very serious indeed.

The UK government, like many others, is clearly working to an external agenda, that is not remotely in the interests of the UK population. We have effectively been sold out to the globalist cabal and are to be offered up as a sacrifice to those who simply want to see a lot less of us around. Not too good for us, but very good for the planet as the globalists see it as an effective way of reducing environmental pollution. The population cull will be achieved under the aegis of the liability free Covid-19 vaccines. All very neat and easy, when you think about it.

136010 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to CGL, 7, #600 of 1680 🔗

You have my sympathy and I can only recommend you focus in on yourself and try to control what you can control.

136055 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Leemc23, 6, #601 of 1680 🔗

I think that is one of my issues- I am normally very much in control of our lives. I can’t bear not being in control of anything. The injustice of it all is stifling.

136609 ▶▶▶▶ 4096, replying to CGL, 1, #602 of 1680 🔗

Yes, I’m similar and really not doing great at the moment. I somehow convinced myself that it would all be over no later than September – my university would reopen I would have my normal life back but now it seems like there is no end is sight and my life depends on incoherent, illogical diktats from the kind of people who think they are oh, so clever for having understood a high-school-level Maths concept of exponential growth and trying to scare everyone with it. It’s all very frustrating and depressing.
( https://twitter.com/carlheneghan/status/1305865292447391744 )

136022 ▶▶ DRW, replying to CGL, 12, #603 of 1680 🔗

Same with me, I’ve been very close to crying this week, it’s all just getting worse by the day and I’m now really struggling to cope with it.

136025 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to CGL, 9, #604 of 1680 🔗

I agree with all the other advice, but would add, “try prayer.” And don’t forget Dr Vernon Coleman’s advice – “You are not on your own, although it can feel that way.” I am grateful to Lockdown Sceptics for keeping me sane (or at least preventing me from a deeper slide into madness.

136045 ▶▶ DRW, replying to CGL, 6, #605 of 1680 🔗

If it doesn’t then they’ll just say their measures worked. If it does they’ll say it would have been much worse without them but we must double down.

136153 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DRW, 8, #606 of 1680 🔗

This will only end with mass Civil disobedience when the economy collapses.The only other hope is that Johnston is deposed by the Tory party before this happens

136083 ▶▶ Will, replying to CGL, 4, #607 of 1680 🔗

Turn off the news, dare I say, step away from this forum and please go for a long walk in a favourite place…

136092 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Will, 1, #608 of 1680 🔗

I dont watch the news but my family have asked that I dont spend so much time on here so you echo that sentiment. Thank you for your concern and support.

136188 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to CGL, 2, #609 of 1680 🔗

I’m sorry you feel how you do, as I understand it totally and am too in a bad place. All the advice given has been excellent. My problem is that as I get more depressed the things that would be good for me such as exercise, healthy eating etc just go out of the window. Let’s try and stay strong and hope that the madness ends before too long.

135962 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 4, #610 of 1680 🔗
135990 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to TyLean, 1, #611 of 1680 🔗

Great.

136000 ▶▶ David, replying to TyLean, 2, #612 of 1680 🔗

Two cannibals are eating Russell Howard.

One turns to other and says, “Does this taste funny to you?”

The other one replies, sternly “No. No, it doesn’t”.

136014 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to David, 1, #613 of 1680 🔗

HAHAHAHA!

136018 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to David, 2, #614 of 1680 🔗

so one then said .. “fancy an indian instead? .”
Other replies “no ,, I tried that Nish Kumar.. completely tasteless and made me sick” .

135968 percy openshaw, replying to percy openshaw, 8, #615 of 1680 🔗

The Aaronovitch argument is a sinister abuse of the public safety point – no more – and typical of social authoritarian leftists. Clearly, he hasn’t left Marxism that far behind. It is no more dangerous to deny government propaganda than to break wind in a desert. If the government has a case, it will prevail; if it does not, it will – rightfully – fail. Aaronovitch, like all of his cast of mind, clearly doesn’t trust the public to discern truth from falsehood; nor is he much interested in the right to be wrong – the most important right in a democracy; the one from which all others flow. Gradually, the left is returning to type – elitist, authoritarian, Utopian and irrational – and all in the name of equality, liberty and reason! Never has there been a greater irony perpetrated by history at the expense of mankind than the sorry story of the Left.

135977 ▶▶ TJN, replying to percy openshaw, 3, #616 of 1680 🔗

Your post points to what I have thought for a while, in that this is a battle far greater than covid, but over what sort of society we wish to be. The Aaronovitchs of this world have seen their chance to exert their control, while the rest of society as to wake up. A titanic struggle is underway.

135980 ▶▶ RickH, replying to percy openshaw, 3, #617 of 1680 🔗

Aaronovitch ‘left’? Sorry – but simply trying to fit this shit-show to simple minded political prejudices is gormless – particularly in the context that the prime movers are right-wing Tories, whoever else is complicit. And I excuse none.

135998 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to RickH, 2, #618 of 1680 🔗

I think the prefix “neo” is where the defining line is. Neo-conservative, Neo-Liberal. Obviously, that fences in the establishment of both sides. The Left, however, has done a much better job of brainwashing their side into the Establishment than the Right, and those on the Left (such as myself) have merely abandoned all and feel disenfranchised. I have recently been accused of going “so far Left that I’ve gone Alt-Right,” which they meant as “so far Left I’m now a fascist,” clearly missing the point that I now see socialism for what it is.

136091 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to TyLean, 3, #619 of 1680 🔗

The old labels do not fit anymore and haven’t for a while.The actual dividing line is Nationalist/Globslist.Freedom is not possible under a Globalist technocratic government.we are in an embryonic stage and you can see where this is heading.Wef and UN Agenda21/30 are quite clear and open about their aims.

136048 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 2, #620 of 1680 🔗

the prime movers are right-wing Tories

Whenever you try to pull off this bit of personal wishful thinking, Rick, you need to be reminded of who were the real “prime movers”, from the crucial moment back in March when this government was bullied and panicked out of following pretty much the Swedish road. (And granted, it’s shameful and pathetic that a newly elected government with a solid majority should let itself be bullied, but nevertheless.)

““ On Friday morning the pressure on Mr Johnson and his scientific and medical advisers to take more drastic action more quickly grew when opposition leaders, including Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn , challenged England’s deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries and minister of care Helen Whately on why the UK was taking such a different approach to other countries.

An official with knowledge of the meeting said Ms Harries “came under sustained pressure” and “the meeting was quite fractiou s”.”

UK’s chief scientific adviser defends ‘herd immunity’ strategy for coronavirus

136065 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, 2, #621 of 1680 🔗

Or not really…..

‘French President Emmanuel Macron told British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Friday that he would close the border if the U.K. did not take more restrictive measures to contain the coronavirus.

“We had prepared the closure of our border and told Prime Minister Johnson we would implement it that day if there was no evolution [of British measures],” a senior French official……’

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/22/france-border-coronavirus-uk-141402

136069 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Tim Bidie, #622 of 1680 🔗

The smoking gun.

135975 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #623 of 1680 🔗

https://archive.is/tEDTz

Here is M Levitt’s DT article in full as an alt for the paywall DT

136063 ▶▶ Will, replying to swedenborg, 1, #624 of 1680 🔗

An absolute must read!!!!!

135979 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 16, #625 of 1680 🔗

The rule of six has been in place four days.

Lockdown North East 11.5 hours.

So why have Whitty and co already started planning for even more when these measures may actually have some benefit.

Plus the restrictions on care homes being announced today.

Doesn’t any MP ask that basic question?

135981 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to hotrod, 7, #626 of 1680 🔗

No, because they have all slithered from the same cesspit.

135986 ▶▶ Kev, replying to hotrod, 3, #627 of 1680 🔗

Based on what they claimed in the past you would need 10 to 14 days to gauge the effectiveness of a given policy, but they previously opted for 3 weeks.

Now it appears unless you see instant impact you need to double down.

136006 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to hotrod, 8, #628 of 1680 🔗

Because it’s all been decided. Everything now just reinforces the group think.

136199 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hotrod, #629 of 1680 🔗

They only gave social distancing a week before announcing the lockdown.

135983 Norma McNormalface, replying to Norma McNormalface, 4, #630 of 1680 🔗

My thought for the day: All dromedaries are camels, but not all camels are dromedaries.

136031 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Norma McNormalface, 1, #631 of 1680 🔗

Indeed, oh wise one. But, the Ship of the Desert is not as much fun as a Ship full of Dessert.
<gets coat>

136081 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Sam Vimes, #632 of 1680 🔗

Called ships of the desert for a different reason.
Mainly because they’re filled with Arab se(a)man…

136122 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Chris John, #633 of 1680 🔗

You are a bad man lol

135992 CZAR-C, replying to CZAR-C, 1, #634 of 1680 🔗

Does anyone know anything about this site? ‘The Mirror Project’ – Possibly a bit too conspiracy theorist for many.. but does have some interesting information. Actively pushing for petitions. Very slick production values.. not important, I know, in the scheme of things but may help by looking more ‘official’ – maybe some journalists are finally fighting back!
https://www.mp-22.com/

136177 ▶▶ Sue, replying to CZAR-C, 2, #635 of 1680 🔗

Yes interesting site Czar and pretty well put together as you said. I didn’t get a feeling of conspiracy theories, (though i didn’t watch the videos so maybe missed them) but mainly the existing petitions that are going around.

This is the ‘who we are page’ – could be interesting to follow …

https://www.mp-22.com/who-are-we :

“We worked in the mainstream media (news & documentaries) for many years.

We’ve been to conflict zones, covered wars, and seen things, slowly we started piecing the puzzle together.

When the “Pandemic” started we’ve witnessed the mainstream media from the inside trying to push a certain narrative on everyone, including us.

We could not participate knowingly, so we left.

We left to organise and find legal ways to fight back.

And it all starts with educating the public.

Our identities will remain anonymous for now, this is to protect us, and more importantly protect the project in its infant stages.

We already have had a lot of harassment.

We have no financial gain in all this, in fact so far we’ve been funding the project from our pockets.

We need to all work collectively and gather hard evidence in order to take action and put an end to all this.”

136589 ▶▶▶ CZAR-C, replying to Sue, 1, #636 of 1680 🔗

Thanks for the reply Sue.. appreciated.

I did receive a message from a good friend who made the point that there do seem to be loads of typos with the link information.

Not an issue for messages or blogs but looks really bad for a site that claims to be rectifying ‘misleading’ information.

I have contacted them to see if they are aware of this.

Toby Young is right to not encourage conspiracy theories on this site as it can cloud the main message… but there’s a lack of decent analysis out there.. and this is at least actively encouraging people to sign the right petitions.

Any port.. and all that…

135993 Tking, replying to Tking, 37, #637 of 1680 🔗

As a self employed person, who qualifies for no financial help, and has a job that I cant do during a lockdown, I wonder how the expect me to get through the next lockdown financially, this is pure evil. They have no thought to the collaterol damage they are causing, they have tunnel vision. Years of paying tax, and taking nothing out and I am left to rot.

Boris and friends are rich toffs, that have not got a clue what it’s like to be a normal person.

136020 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Tking, 11, #638 of 1680 🔗

Oh yes, they do….. they do experiments with them at Eton, burning £100 notes in front of them. They know all about poor and normal people!

136192 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TyLean, 3, #639 of 1680 🔗

That’s Harrow. Eton use share certificates for that.

136194 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tking, 5, #640 of 1680 🔗

I want all my tax money back. Not just for this year. For every year.

136858 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #641 of 1680 🔗

They’ve already spent all your taxes and any tax you might have paid in the next ten years or so. Great isn’t it, they are spending our money, in order to wage a savage war against us. They must be laughing their socks off, once away from the public eye.

135994 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 10, #642 of 1680 🔗

This will be the conversation around the desks in parliament. ” Good morning chaps and chappeses. The majority of the public have fallen for all this crap hook line and sinker, all that is needed is to keep up the scare tactics. What should we talk about this morning then?, yes let’s think up some new buzz words and phrases to throw out there”. I’ve had an absolute belly full of all the lies and control, I just despair that so many more people are not questioning the narrative more. My siblings who I have always thought of as intelligent people think everything the government is doing is for the greater good! Give me strength, I wish I was religious as it might give me some comfort.

136050 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #643 of 1680 🔗

“Mind how you go in the House, there are cameras in there, so resume the social distance”

135999 swedenborg, 2, #644 of 1680 🔗

https://twitter.com/JohnDStats/status/1306901203729739778

An impressive timely graphs.Cases and deaths C-19 Europe and testing.Now more cases in Europe than during March April but look at deths and the amount of testing.

136003 Liam, replying to Liam, 13, #645 of 1680 🔗

I see Van Morrison is one of us, according to a horrible sneering review at the increasingly dreadful Telegraph:

“No more lockdown / No more government overreach / No more fascist bullies / Disturbing our peace,”

136023 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Liam, 9, #646 of 1680 🔗

Let’s just run that through the Speak-o-Vax:

“Dangerous conspiracy theorist ‘singer’ releases vile granny killing anthem”. There we go.

136135 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #647 of 1680 🔗

You are funny, Sam Vimes. You’ve been making me laugh for months.

136218 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Alethea, 1, #648 of 1680 🔗

Well, thank you. One tries.

136170 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #649 of 1680 🔗

He will now receive the Morissey non person treatment from the BBC and their mates.

136007 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 16, #650 of 1680 🔗
136016 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Major Panic, 13, #651 of 1680 🔗

Yes they are. But, if you were someone who didn’t realise that (say you have a thick woolly pelt), you would just see this as more frightening evidence of the ‘spike’.

136032 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Major Panic, 4, #652 of 1680 🔗

I thought we still had the Nightingales for that!

136036 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to DRW, 1, #653 of 1680 🔗

They dismantled the nightgale hospitals

136040 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to ambwozere, #654 of 1680 🔗

Oh OK I must have missed that. I thought some had been booked until next year though.

136038 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to DRW, 1, #655 of 1680 🔗

On ‘standby’ since early May, does anyone know if the beds, equipment etc are still in place?

136008 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 6, #656 of 1680 🔗

I quite like David Aaronovitch but I thought his article smacked of someone trying to convince himself rather than others. It must be difficult for people like him and Melanie Philips, who came out early as lockdown zealots, to consider that they might have been wrong even as the brutal truth must be dawning on them.

136030 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Andrew, 12, #657 of 1680 🔗

I don’t get the impression David Aaronovitch or Melanie Philips are going to back down. Given their recent articles on anyone who doesn’t take the rushed vaccine. I genuinely believe they would support and campaign for quarantine camps or other life changing measures for those that refuse (such as taking away their children into care).

The population needs to wake up to the authoritarian takeover the mainstream media are agitating for – it won’t be reversible in another few months.

136058 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, 8, #658 of 1680 🔗

Sad – I always like Melanie Phillips before..

136178 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, #659 of 1680 🔗

It’s always reversible. I accept it gets *harder* to reverse as time goes by, but everything is reversible.

136313 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #660 of 1680 🔗

Agree, but just look at reversing Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. The longer you leave it the higher the damage. Looking at places like Victoria in Australia I am not convinced there would be much public resistance if protestors were shot or imprisoned indefinitely. Evil takes hold fast.

136035 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Andrew, 9, #661 of 1680 🔗

My heart bleeds for them. Their potential painful fall from brainwashed dope to questioning has exactly dick on the agony of knowing from Day 1 that this is utter bullshit and a Tesco Value Plague….. and the torment and misery of helplessly watching it happen every step of the way, demonised and attacked every time you open your mouth or type to voice dissent.

There is no bravery in going with the herd and no real pain turning with the herd.

The dorsal anterior cingulate cortex perceives social pain of exclusion the same way it experiences physical pain.

Why rejection hurts: a common neural alarm system for physical and social pain
by Naomi I. Eisenberger and Matthew D. Lieberman:
https://www.scn.ucla.edu/pdf/WhyRejectionHurts(TICS) .pdf

136186 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TyLean, 3, #662 of 1680 🔗

I must be a masochist then! I seem to revel in social rejection. Suppose we all need a hobby… 😊

136046 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Andrew, 1, #663 of 1680 🔗

Tell the truth and shame the devil(s)(government/advisers/experts)

136097 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Andrew, 2, #664 of 1680 🔗

Didn’t seem to trouble Aaronovitch over the Iraq war.

136173 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, #665 of 1680 🔗

It’s disappointing. I was an early supporter of the Iraq War, but grew increasingly disillusioned, then angry, as the WMD proved themselves to be a chimera.

That political betrayal probably explains, at least in part, my scepticism over the government’s reaction to Corona, and my cynicism when somebody is trying to influence me using fear-mongering or dodgy assumptions.

I’ve not rejected one belief system to replace it with another.

136176 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #666 of 1680 🔗

By the by, I’m still not sure if my anger was aimed at the government of the day for lying, or at myself for believing. Perhaps both.

136228 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #667 of 1680 🔗

Both would be a pretty human reaction, but like the buffoon in the White House tried to say; fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

136223 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #668 of 1680 🔗

I was against it from the start, because just like the coronapanic stuff, the case for war just wasn’t plausible. I think in both cases, you either had to put undue trust in the mainstream and biased sources that were pushing in a particular direction, or yourself have an ulterior motive for wanting war/panic, to believe in them.

I forgive people who aren’t specialists for being misled early on (foreign policy and geostrategy was and is my main area of interest, so I could see at once that the wmd nonsense first, was not the real motivation and second was not credible, but most people had only the information they saw on the news and read in their papers). I also had the advantage in both cases of being resistant to the agendas being pushed anyway.

I do not forgive those responsible for taking us to war, nor do I forgive those who persisted in advocating or apologising for it long after they could and should have known it was based on falsehoods. Aaronovitch falls squarely into the unforgiven category, and indeed he has proved a pretty reliable warmonger ever since.

136009 Cbird, replying to Cbird, 3, #669 of 1680 🔗

/2020/09/low-mood-a-reasonable-excuse-to-ignore-coronavirus-restrictions/

Good post from Law or Fiction about ‘reasonable excuse’ to ignore restrictions

136019 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 56, #671 of 1680 🔗

Six year old child asked her mum in my daughter’s street if she could go play with Sally (name changed to protect the innocent).

Mum replies, “Because we’re not allowed to go to other people’s houses in case we get the coronavirus.

Daphne (name changed to protect the innocent); “But we’ve been in school together all day!”

Out of the mouths of babes.

136027 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Londo Mollari, 17, #672 of 1680 🔗

Covid dosen’t strike in schools, it’s a sensitive type

136783 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DRW, 2, #673 of 1680 🔗

And it keeps out off pubs before 10 pm.

136241 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Londo Mollari, 5, #674 of 1680 🔗

Daphne should be appointed as Education Secretary!

137038 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Londo Mollari, #675 of 1680 🔗

Covid is a very intelligent virus – it knows where to strike, what time and can count.

Oh and it can only travel in one direction.

136021 Mike, 7, #676 of 1680 🔗

May have been posted, if so apologies…
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-health-secretary-matt-hancock-071400681.html

What on earth are these people doing? Have they not been ramping testing over recent weeks? Also, if masks, social distancing, lockdowns etc work how on earth is this even possible? Not that I believe any of it, but I’m more incredulous of the lack of simple questions by the vast majority of people out there.

136041 Kev, replying to Kev, 9, #677 of 1680 🔗

What is quite sinister is that BBC (and all major opposition parties) are in complete lockstep with its arch enemy a Conservative (in name only – Cino) government.

Apart from Climate Change, when did that ever happen?

136104 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Kev, 6, #678 of 1680 🔗

If the government went sceptic, the BBC would start to attack it savagely

136155 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 5, #679 of 1680 🔗

Being attacked by the BBC is probably good evidence that you’re getting something right.

136247 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, #680 of 1680 🔗

It is that simple isn’t. Also that they attack shows they know what to hide.

136042 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #681 of 1680 🔗

Is it me or are the police conspicuous in their absence in recent times?

Don’t see much of them around

Nothing in the press along the lines of we support the dictatorship, we will enforce the rules etc

Have they come over to our side? (but just keeping out of it at the moment?)

136044 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Cecil B, 4, #682 of 1680 🔗

I think they have all been sent on brainwashing…. I mean retraining programs.

Although around here, the police presence has been increased 2 or 3 fold.

136154 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TyLean, #683 of 1680 🔗

Was similar here in the spring, but all quiet again with the Police here. ie never see any.

136056 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cecil B, 4, #684 of 1680 🔗

They are being trained in the latest ‘policing’ methods being practiced in Victoria – and just waiting for the ‘GO’ instruction.

136240 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, #685 of 1680 🔗

Worryingly you may well be right…

136094 ▶▶ anon, replying to Cecil B, 2, #686 of 1680 🔗

Still plenty of them driving around with sirens blaring around here

I’m pretty damned sure there arent that many emergencies in rural east midlands

136643 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to anon, #687 of 1680 🔗

Loads down here on the coast. I have wondered if they blare their sirens to increase the sense of panic.

136150 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, #688 of 1680 🔗

I’ll let you know on Sunday.

136527 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cecil B, #689 of 1680 🔗

just normal police behaviour.. you never see them around. You dont see them walking the beat. you occasionally see them in cars going somewhere. for years they have been disappearing from view

136047 John P, replying to John P, 3, #690 of 1680 🔗

I thought I would add just a post script to what I said last night. I intend to make this my final posting here. I will not read or respond to any replies.

There seem to be two groups here. A group of people who think that the government is being administered by fools who do not know what they are doing, and a group who think that the lockdown was pre-planned as part of a strategy to usher in some sort of “new world order”. (Presumably run by Bill Gates or George Soros).

I, as I’ve said, belong to the former. Sweden is often held up by lockdown sceptics here and elsewhere as an example of why the lockdown is not justified.

It’s also a great example of why the conspiracy theories are not justified. Did the Swedish government not get the NWO e-mail?

I spent a lot of time this week (and I have better things to do quite frankly) trying to explain
on here why I think the conspiracy theories are wrong, but I might as well try to tell a mask
wearer that masks are not necessary.

Everyone (and I do mean everyone) is “right”. At least in their own minds. Because people invest their own self esteem in being “right” it is very difficult (in fact largely impossible) to get them to abandon their viewpoint and adopt instead your viewpoint.

But equally other people – and this includes conspiracy theorists – are entitled to their views as well.

Toby Young is one of the strongest advocates for free speech in this country. And Brendan O’Neill of Spiked has said that free speech should include the right to offend. Another commenter was offended by my criticism last night of her theory.

I have noticed here that sometimes a person will appear who is in favour of lockdown. Or at least who will play devil’s advocate on the subject. Although I disagree with “mayo”, he or she is – like everyone else – entitled to their opinions.

I think “mayo” is bullied by some people on here. It is fine getting riled by their views (I get similarly riled at times by conspiracy theories) but just telling someone “to shut” up or “go away” does nothing to advance the anti-lockdown argument. Nor does – without any evidence – suggesting that they are paid trolls or members of 77th Brigade. (They might be, but you have no way of knowing). Instead it would be better to respectfully argue against them.

Now I fail on this sometimes, but I do not resort to bullying. Bullying is making personal remarks about another trying to draw attention to another’s failings and hurling “ad hominem” personal insults at them. I got that last night from a number of individuals.

You know almost nothing about me!

This was designed to intimidate me into silence. And yes it has worked. I now want nothing more to do with this forum. There are some very nice people here and some very unpleasant people here. (Cue abuse from the latter).

I am not a bitter person. I have had a difficult life at times. I have a quirky sense of humour, which perhaps does not always translate well to print. We are – more or less ALL strangers here. You don’t know who (or what) you are talking to most of the time.

I have also noticed a tendency of some here to become “cliquey”. You protect those regulars that you consider to be your own and are hostile those you preceive as outsiders.

This is an open forum. It does not belong to me, you or anyone else here. (Perhaps it “belongs” to Toby Young).

I am not going to come back here to comment again. I sent an e-mail to Toby last night. I am not a vindictive person. I just wish to be left alone now. I am genuinely scared of some of the people on here. No more of this please!

136060 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to John P, 2, #691 of 1680 🔗

Even though you will not see this I’d like to say that I have enjoyed reading your posts and am sorry to see you go

136260 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Strange Days, 3, #692 of 1680 🔗

Seconded by me. I’m not fond of echo chamber forums, which this one is not though there is a lot of agreement on the main issues.

136076 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to John P, 5, #693 of 1680 🔗

Still not buying it. See you back in a few days.

(PS. I don’t really believe in the conspiracy theories either but generally avoid those discussions because they are ultimately unproveable).

136096 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Achilles, 2, #694 of 1680 🔗

Unproveable? No you just haven’t bothered to spend any time looking into those subjects yourself have you. You just take what the mainstream of everything tells you because it’s easier and it gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside tht you know how the world works!

Deary me….after all this and you still go on like it can be explained away simply with the old ‘incompetence’ card!

Cheers
B

136374 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to B Boru, 2, #695 of 1680 🔗

I suspect I was studying conspiracy theories long before you were born my darling. Chariots of the Gods man. They practically own half of South America.

136403 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Achilles, -1, #696 of 1680 🔗

Is that right? Well there’s an old saying….There’s no fooll like an old fool.

Keep taking the Deludamol.

136409 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Achilles, #697 of 1680 🔗

Erich van Daenikin. If I remember right.

136438 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Fingerache Philip., #698 of 1680 🔗

That’s right… and the quote is from The Thing.

136181 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Achilles, 1, #699 of 1680 🔗

Pretty vacant?

136078 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to John P, 1, #700 of 1680 🔗

Well said. ATB.

136089 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to John P, 6, #701 of 1680 🔗

‘Conspiracy Theory’ – A term weaponised by the FBI following the assasinations of JFK and MLK. To be used in the event that anyone questioning the ridiculous official narrative of both events can be discredited and smeared. Provable fact. A memo sent to all media outlets shows this to be true.

D-notices – Can be issued by the British Government to any media agency to cease and desist reporting on any issue they deem to not be in the interests of national security…..Did you even know that this is the case?

I’m afraid your argument is entirely invalid. however, you are entitled to believe what you like, after all, belief is now the cornerstone of our society. Wouldn’t want to let them pesky facts get in the way now would we.

How do you know there is no global conspiracy? Have you done any research on the subject or do you ‘just believe it cos they would never do that’??

I understand it must be difficult for your mind to grasp and the consequences this would have on your conscious and sub-conscious mind but that is the cause and effect of learning something new that you otherwise did not know through critical analysis of many different source information and coming to a reasonable and inevitable conclusion based on the undeniable evidence and reference material at hand.

You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn’t make it fact no matter how much you whine about it.

I like to use the analogy of music. You know it exists because you can hear it. It is not a physical thing but it still evokes an emotional response when you hear it. Musicians can sometimes seem like superhuman when you watch them play complex music on an instrument.
Just because you can’t do it does it mean that it can’t be possible?
Ergo….just because you are not capable of something doesn’t mean that others are of the same capability. Indeed, they may well be experts in the thing that you think doesn’t happen because you can’t/don’t behave/act that way.

Think, being Psychopathic.

Cheers
B

136105 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to B Boru, 5, #702 of 1680 🔗

This is why I avoid conspiracy theory discussions.

136107 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Achilles, -1, #703 of 1680 🔗

Too much for you love? I suggest a nice mug of Ovaltine and a warm blanket…there there…you’re feeling sleeeeeeepy

136229 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to B Boru, 3, #704 of 1680 🔗

Oh dear.

136117 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Achilles, 2, #705 of 1680 🔗

Me too. The only problem in the last 6 months is discerning what is a conspiracy theory. I honestly thought Event 201 and “the Great Reset” were examples of this.
From my point of view there’s enough to be getting on with concerning the cock up rather than conspiracy actions of our UK govt. Witness their new idea to have a mini lockdown at the end of October

136310 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, 1, #706 of 1680 🔗

Yep me too. Just like kicking a sack of wool – the impression is only there for as long as your boot. Facts and reason seem to pass these people by.

136405 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Nick Rose, -3, #707 of 1680 🔗

hahahaha aye thats a good one….facts and reason…oh my sides!

You my friend, are a moron, plain and simple!

136106 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to John P, 6, #708 of 1680 🔗

I’m genuinely very sad that you feel this way as certainly it’s been my experience that this is very much an open form that hopefully stretches across any political divisions. After all, what brought us here in the first place was surely a sense of isolation – that we were entirely alone in believing the Co Vid hysteria and that the LD restrictions were overreach and deeply damaging. Understandably, as until recently it’s been impossible to even voice an opposing view, people on this forum have been exasperated and angry and have given vent to these feelings. I’m genuinely sorry if this has driven you off the forum. That would be utterly counterproductive. This should be a safe space. As you say, we’re all strangers but I wish you peace and the best of luck.

136123 ▶▶ leggy, replying to John P, 7, #709 of 1680 🔗

That’s a shame. Division among sceptics isn’t helping anyone. Frankly, I don’t care what people’s reasons are for opposing what’s happening. As far as I’m concerned the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

136133 ▶▶ tonys, replying to John P, 5, #710 of 1680 🔗

Absolutely right.

136148 ▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 5, #711 of 1680 🔗

I made my response to your personal issues here yesterday, and I stand by what I wrote then – your problems are self inflicted and will follow you to whatever forums you go to, and the solutions are within your own grasp.

Your description of events though is false in certain key particulars, so I will highlight those here.

The issue arose yesterday when you responded to a post by Bella, which was not any kind of “conspiracy theorising”, but merely made the perfectly reasonable assertion, in response to a query about why Susan Michie is so far from reason on the coronapanic unlike Heneghan, that it was because she is a communist. You can agree or disagree with that, but the presumption that someone’s extremist politics might influence their behaviour is by no means unreasonable.

The post, and your response, can be viewed here .

Far from your characterisation of the exchange, you jumped in with empty abuse: “ Don’t be stupid”. If you’d added a reasoned explanation as to why you felt it was stupid,that would have been less provocative, but as it was, you absolutely earned yourself a hostile rejoinder.

In fact Bella was very restrained and reasonable in responding to your provocation, but you nevertheless flew into entirely unwarranted accusations of bullying.

In that exchange, regardless of the merits of the point supposedly under discussion, you were in the wrong and Bella behaved pretty much impeccably, imo, until very late in the exchange after you’d called him/her “paranoid”

136582 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Mark, #712 of 1680 🔗

Very well put. I couldn’t see much “bullying” in that thread. As far as I can see, John was unjustifiably rude to Bella and rightly got called out for it.

136597 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Mark, 2, #713 of 1680 🔗

As someone who grew up in America, I can say that calling someone a “communist” is fighting words and usually lazy. But I was curious after reading this thread and looked up the person in question, and yes, she is a communist, i.e., a member of the Communist Party, at least according to her (hopefully accurate) Wikipedia entry. All I can say is “interesting discussion”.

136897 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to ConstantBees, #714 of 1680 🔗

:I recall conversations with Americans back in Cold War days where we would talk about actual active Communist Party members in legislatures in Europe and they’d react with total incredulity.

136149 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to John P, 3, #715 of 1680 🔗

Sorry to see you go, but respect your decision :o((

136156 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 7, #716 of 1680 🔗

I think there’s a third camp in which I find myself that indeed accuses the government of incompetence (particularly its failure to prepare in any meaningful sense for a pandemic and then its lacklustre performance re PPE) and also stupidity (the self harm of the Lockdown and the Mask Madness)…but there are actors whose behaviour appears conspiratorial at times :

– China’s actions appear suspicious. The virus might well have escaped from their Wuhan lab and they might be covering it up, They also seem to be driving WHO to promote policies that are damaging our economies and our societies.

– The Marxist Left see this as an opportunity to destroy Trump and bring about fundamental changes to the economic system, They appear to be deliberately extending the crisis.

– Big Pharma and the Gates Gang seem to be using the crisis to take forward their dangerous “vaccines for everything” policy.

136198 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, 9, #717 of 1680 🔗

Whether it escaped from a lab,was released intentionally,did come from bats or even if it really exists;it doesn’t matter,what is clear is that Myriad groups are using the crisis to push their own agendas.

136231 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #718 of 1680 🔗

This is my view too.

136244 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #719 of 1680 🔗

Yes, I’ve wavered between thinking it is incompetence or conspiracy, but I’m converging on thinking the truth is somewhere in the middle. That is – it was initially incompetence (Johnson failed to stick to his original, Swedish-like plan, then the wheels came off). Now though, I think there are all sorts of different groups using this opportunity to push their own agenda.

It is not difficult to see that pharmaceutical companies (or anyone invested in them) obviously benefit from flogging vaccines, so they have a big financial interest in the crisis continuing until they can deliver a mass-vaccine.

Ferguson has his own ego to defend, so continues to push his models.

The Home Office has wanted compulsory ID cards for decades, that is not news, and now it has a perfect opportunity to get them in via test or vaccine passports.

Councils are rolling out road closures under the cover of covid – with descrete enforcement cameras generating revenue.

I don’t believe for a minute there is some kind of Bill Gates-as-Blofeld sitting in a underground cave coordinating all this. All the unforced errors and U-turns of the Government suggest they are still pretty incompetent – but I think various different groups are, mostly independently, taking advantage of the situation for their own ends.

136340 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, 1, #720 of 1680 🔗

I’m glad to hear that. But I do refer you to my reply to OKUK above.

136387 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #721 of 1680 🔗

Agree – I don’t think it was planned up-front, just after-the-fact opportunists. My dear old mum is definitely in the conspiracy camp and believes the Masons / Illuminati / Satan is behind the whole thing. Makes conversation quite challenging, even for two sceptics.

136349 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to zacaway, 2, #722 of 1680 🔗

Ferguson has received money from the vaccine lobby.

136342 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #723 of 1680 🔗

Indeed they are.

136599 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #724 of 1680 🔗

“Never waste a crisis” seems to be the slogan of many groups.

136335 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 1, #725 of 1680 🔗

There is a difference between having a suspicion about something, which is quite natural, and nobody denies that everybody with an agenda comes forward to advance it in a crisis.

But conspiracy theorists always insist in spinning a web of fantasy (often called “joining the dots”) whereby those with an agenda actually caused the crisis in the first place, planned it out and set it in motion. We see it in everything that goes wrong.

A correction in the stockmarket is for the Great Reset. Airline stocks were dumped in the weeks leading up to 9/11, showing it was an inside job. There were no planes used in 9/11. The attack on the Pentagon was a missile, the twin towers were demolished. And so it goes on.

And when challenged, or somebody actually takes the theory apart, they just rinse it out, add in even more nonsense and push the new amended fantasy as fact.

136521 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to OKUK, #726 of 1680 🔗

OKUK…. You echo my thoughts entirely,
I would add that the incompetence of the government is exacerbated by what seems to be collusion from the BBC and other MSM, and also influence by other parties (whether agents of the government or not ) to skew social media conversations .
This action also seems to have been carried out on a world wide basis by Chinese agencies – again not only manipulating social media but by Chinese students in western universities acting politically and also the financial influence that China has on our universities.
And otherwise, yes vested interests using the confusion for their own ends.

And also sad to see John go. We are all on the same side

136598 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to OKUK, #727 of 1680 🔗

One of China’s actions that I find very strange is the “people keeling over dead” video. Great way to cause panic – and then not a single report anywhere else in the world of anyone just keeling over dead from the virus. Very interesting, in a psyops sort of way, at least to me.

136161 ▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 6, #728 of 1680 🔗

Calling someone 77 brigade is not a good way to go. It ends up doing the work for 77 brigade by causing division. Better as Jonh Petty says to either ignore or use the counter argument positively to strengthen understanding and arguments.

I’m also aware there is an inherent flaw with public forums that they can easily be corrupted by personal vendettas either true or by agent provocateurs.

Happily it is obvious there are large numbers of mature, respectful people ranging from the youngters right up to the great experienced folk. Don’t let the bastards grind us all down.

A really hot cup of tea for all.

136191 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to John P, 1, #729 of 1680 🔗

Sorry you feel you have to stop posting on this forum, and hope that you reconsider at some point in the future.

I have to say that I have never bought in to any conspiracy theory about anything, because if it consists of more than one person (in which case it isn’t a conspiracy anyway!), someone will always talk, they always do. Even if that is only on their deathbed.

We all have our secrets and confidences, and usually keep them to ourselves. But involve another person and you cannot guarantee that confidence being kept.

As most theories would seem to involve numerous people to be successful, it soon goes beyond comprehension that any conspiracy would remain ‘secret’ for very long.

There may well be an agenda by some of those involved in dealing with an issue, but that doesn’t make it a conspiracy, let alone a ‘secret’ one.

It might, sometimes, be tempting to ascribe something as a conspiracy, but generally the cock-up and ass covering motive are much more likely to be accurate.

And it’s no different with Covid any more than with any other issue.

136200 ▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 6, #730 of 1680 🔗

There seem to be two groups here. A group of people who think that the government is being administered by fools who do not know what they are doing, and a group who think that the lockdown was pre-planned as part of a strategy to usher in some sort of “new world order”. (Presumably run by Bill Gates or George Soros) .”

That’s a fair characterisation, but I don’t really see why it needs to be a problem. I am, as I’ve repeatedly pointed out here, very much on the cock up side rather than the conspiracy side, but while I’m happy to argue my side if I’m in the mood, I don’t feel offended or upset at the presence of people here with a different position.

There is a tension in any political site between maintaining tight focus and excluding any issues that might distract, versus allowing diversity of views. The latter is better from a free discussion point of view, but will result in people uncomfortable with such views being put off from reading the site or taking it seriously. This mostly manifests here in people wanting to silence “conspiracy theorists and people wanting to silence “racists” (in practice, people who dissent from the general antiracist dogma).

The choice of which path to follow is up to the owner, and so far Toby has stuck to his free speech principles and adopted the path of tolerance. That imo has contributed to making this site much more interesting, and imo kept him more interested in it than if he had been forced to discipline himself to stick to a tight topic.

Many of the most useful, informative posts here imo have been made by people who are very much on the conspiracy side of the spectrum, compared to me. Tolerance of dissent actually does make for better discussion, I think.

136324 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to John P, 3, #731 of 1680 🔗

Don’t leave. If you and, people like you, leave, this forum simply becomes anti-lockdown fan base and one which allows no scrutiny of its beliefs.

Despite what many probably think – I am not pro-lockdown. I certainly question the effectiveness of of the UK action on March 23rd but that doesn’t mean I accept everything that Sunetra Gupta or Michael Levitt says.

I get the same flak in the Climate Change ‘debate’. I’m regularly accused of being an alarmist because I happen to think that increasing CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere is likely to result in a warmer world. It’s basic Physics.

However, in December 2004, I had a lengthy online exchange of views with Michael Mann (H-S lead author) in which I criticised his well known past temperature reconstruction. I had basically picked up on the ‘hide the decline’ trick 5 years before it was revealed in the Climategate episode.

By the way, I’d be interested to know which bits you think I’ve got wrong

Stick with it – we need different opinions.

136721 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to John P, 1, #732 of 1680 🔗

As i said last night you should just ignore those who you can’t get on with. As much as i agree concerning the conspiracy stuff i believe we all have to put our differences aside and fight to end the lockdown. Anyway it’s a shame you feel like this i just hope you carry on the struggle at your own pace and in your own way .Good luck .

136049 RickH, replying to RickH, 10, #733 of 1680 🔗

A morning spent observing – in hospital for a regular procedure.

Useless masks are universal, with varying degrees of scepticism under them.

But the lack of accurate information about Covid is immense when you get into conversations. It’s like being one of those survivors in ‘Night of the Living Dead’

136085 ▶▶ CGL, replying to RickH, 8, #734 of 1680 🔗

I have found no one with any knowledge at all about the tests, useless masks, statistics or any other aspect. People simply can’t be bothered to question or research anything. Easier to accept it and comply. Their freedom is valueless to them.

136093 ▶▶▶ rms, replying to CGL, 10, #735 of 1680 🔗

That is also my experience. And they disbelieve me openly. They start off with something like “Well, that’s interesting and I don’t really know or understand any of this, but …” and off they go without even discussion of what I just tried to enlighten them with. The Age of Enlightment is officially over.

136577 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to rms, #736 of 1680 🔗

Well, we got to live through it, so I guess that’s something.

136053 Fingerache Philip., 6, #737 of 1680 🔗

A local folk festival (no names,no pack drill) is going ahead in October.
A collective F Y perhaps?/hopefully?
More power to their (fiddlers?)elbows.

136067 Kev, replying to Kev, 3, #738 of 1680 🔗

New Year fireworks display already cancelled, so they can’t even do it without crowds it would appear.

136108 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Kev, 4, #739 of 1680 🔗

Keep an eye out for ‘Drone Shows’ instead – the new normal replacement that is as exciting as watching an algorithm in the sky. Yes they can use thousands of drones with lights to animate giant mouths talking or hands waving in a trchnocratic fashion after Gandalfs dragon fire works. However it has none of the visual chaos or ambiguity of fire works. Eight bit pixel imaging vs french impressionists. I’m not a luddite honestly!

Interesting point history is written by the corporations – this from google:

Historical
Luddite
a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woollen mills, that they believed was threatening their jobs

Believed is a curiously dismissive word.

This from ‘Quartz’ (quickly found random search result site).

“The truth is that the Luddites were the skilled, middle-class workers of their time. After centuries on more-or-less good terms with merchants who sold their goods, their lives were upended by machines replacing them with low-skilled, low-wage laborers in dismal factories. To ease the transition, the Luddites sought to negotiate conditions similar to those underlying capitalist democracies today: taxes to fund workers’ pensions, a minimum wage, and adherence to minimum labor standards.

“Those bargaining attempts were rebuffed by most factory owners. The Luddites then began months of “machine breaking” in 1811-1812, smashing the weaving frames, in a last ditch effort to bring their new bosses to the table. At the behest of factory owners, the British Parliament declared machine breaking a capital offense and sent 14,000 troops to the English countryside to put down the uprising. Dozens of Luddites were executed or exiled to Australia. The crushed rebellion cleared the way for horrific working conditions of the Industrial Revolution yet to come. ”

Hmm.

136203 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Kev, 1, #740 of 1680 🔗

Good thing they’ve got Coronavirus’ calendar so they can see what he’s up over the New Year.

136072 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 4, #741 of 1680 🔗

Apologies if this has already been posted. Looks like they’re going to try and ramp up the deathcount by discharging Covid patients back into care homes again.

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-local-authority-calls-on-care-home-providers-to-accept-covid-positive-hospital-patients

136080 ▶▶ anon, replying to Chicot, 2, #742 of 1680 🔗

Democide. Intentional too.

136288 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Chicot, 1, #743 of 1680 🔗

Why not revert to the old scheme utilised for the treatment of TB, namely sanitoria where suspected cases could be cohorted together.

136075 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 1, #744 of 1680 🔗

So it creeps further south and west.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/18/stricter-covid-restrictions-imposed-in-lancashire

So why do we need anything more than this?

136077 ▶▶ DRW, replying to hotrod, 5, #745 of 1680 🔗

So they can incrementally roll out the second lockdown.

136084 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to hotrod, 2, #746 of 1680 🔗

Creeping curfew coming quicker than predicted

136086 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to karenovirus, 2, #747 of 1680 🔗

Yeah that’s the latest toy they’re itching to play with.

136255 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 2, #748 of 1680 🔗

Yes, note they aren’t actually even waiting to see the supposed ‘mitigating’ effects of each restriction before imposing the next one, which shows it is all a farce anyway..
It’s all been planned for months..

136134 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to hotrod, 7, #749 of 1680 🔗

The cynical view would be that they are breaking the mental resolve of the general populous so that they will accept any further restrictions without question or a vaccine as the only way out.

136180 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #750 of 1680 🔗

I wouldn’t call it cynical,but true

136201 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #751 of 1680 🔗

When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever
remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

—Sherlock Holmes

136088 Basics, 20, #752 of 1680 🔗

And to that now long forgotten unsolicited text from the UK Government telling each of us this is an exceptionally dangerous time we must panic as on nation I say – fuck off. We have uncovered your evil behavioural psychologists seeking to increase our personal sense of dread. You are weak and pathetic. Talk to us with respect and dignity, I dare you.

136095 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #753 of 1680 🔗

When these so called experts/advisers, etc tell us naughty children off for not “social distancing “, I suggest they come down from their “ivory towers”/dreaming spires” and visit any supermarket anywhere and they will see that if that ridiculous rule was followed to the letter, it would make our shopping that normally takes up to an hour into one that would take 3 to 4 hours.
These idiots literally ought to get out more.

136119 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Fingerache Philip., 13, #754 of 1680 🔗

It’s all just deflection from their huge mistake. We are blamed for everything. It’s our fault for going to the beach, it’s our fault for not wearing masks, it’s our fault for meeting family, it’s our fault for going for a test when we don’t need one, it’s our fault for not filling track and trace, it’s our fault for not being the right kind of people to follow the Swedish model, etc. etc.

136124 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Achilles, 11, #755 of 1680 🔗

It’s our fault for being living, breathing bodily creatures in need of company and contact in order to feel well in the world.

136132 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Achilles, 5, #756 of 1680 🔗

I’m beginning to think “it’s our fault for being alive”

136112 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #757 of 1680 🔗

Reminder you that the deadline for the UK Government’s consultation on vaccines is drawing to a close tonight at 11.59pm . The Government is planning to make some changes to current laws, in order to facilitate the rollout of a potential COVID-19 vaccine (AND potential flu vaccines!).

These changes include alteration to The Human Medicines Regulations 2012 (HMRs) which will allow the fast-tracking rollout of mass vaccination using unregistered vaccines. In addition, it will also permit the drug companies (and other commercial entities) to advertise these vaccinations. Furthermore, the legislation will allow the administration of these vaccines by unqualified, non-health care individuals. Lastly, the drug companies will be protected from any law suits arising – should these vaccinations cause any harm or damage, whatsoever.

ANH Intl draft response that might assist you.
https://www.anhinternational.org/news/uk-law-changes-for-covid-19-mass-vaccination/

136120 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Victoria, 12, #758 of 1680 🔗

They will have to allow non-healthcare professionals to administer the vaccination as registered HCPs have codes of professional conduct that could lead to the person being struck off. I certainly would refuse to administer an untested vaccine as I could not show that it was in the patient’s best interest. First: Do no harm.
Did they not learn anything from Thalidomide, where they took the manufacturer’s test data and results at face value?

136129 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to p02099003, 2, #759 of 1680 🔗

This government learns nothing.They haven’t even learned from the mistake they made in March, with the lockdown. So I suppose you have no chance of them learning from mistakes made a) by others or b) longer ago than March 2020.

136196 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #760 of 1680 🔗

Learning requires them to admit to making mistakes, which they clearly have no interest in doing. Either because they are utterly incompetent and are content to fiddle while Rome burns, or they are deliberately throwing fuel onto the fire because they are a bunch of fascists driving towards some other goal.

136222 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #761 of 1680 🔗

They have one thing in mind and nothing will stop them from going ahead with it. I think we’re going to see fighting in the streets soon.

136291 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #762 of 1680 🔗

We are. When furlough ends, jobs disappear and people begin to get hungry. Only thing staying hands atm is Dolan’s appeal.

136503 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nick Rose, #763 of 1680 🔗

And the end of furlough now looks like it will come at the same time as the planned half-term lockdown.

136213 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to p02099003, 2, #764 of 1680 🔗

The thalidomide analogy is a very good one. The USA didn’t believe the stats the drug company provided and as a result its use in America was never permitted, saving untold deaths and deformities. Only trouble is that no-one under the age of 30 has ever heard of it!

136220 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to assoc, 1, #765 of 1680 🔗

If they’ve never heard of thalidomide then it’s time they did some research.

136243 ▶▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to assoc, 2, #766 of 1680 🔗

I was lucky. My mum was offered this drug for morning sickness, my twin sister and I are so relieved she didn’t take it. I wouldn’t be rushing in to this one.

136279 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to assoc, #767 of 1680 🔗

Thalidomide is now used to treat some cancers andleprosy, but it does have a huge warning not to be given to pregnant ladies.

136217 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to p02099003, 5, #768 of 1680 🔗

They can all get stuffed. I’m not having anyone sticking a syringe in me. My body. My decision!

136158 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to Victoria, 1, #769 of 1680 🔗

Thanks, I had put responding to this consultation in the too difficult box, but this article provides ready made template responses that can be cut and pasted into each of the 5 consultation categories . Quick and easy to do. I encourage everybody to give it a try.

I also noticed that there is a provision in the consultation for late responses if anyone misses the deadline

136263 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cbird, #770 of 1680 🔗

Me too, I unfortunately did not have the time to compose my own responses and found the template very useful. Added a few extras but now submitted.

136214 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Victoria, 2, #771 of 1680 🔗

If whatever the people want is contrary to what these Fascists in government want it won’t happen. Do you think they ever consider what we want?

136251 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, #772 of 1680 🔗

Thanks!

136502 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Victoria, #773 of 1680 🔗

At least the consultation page says these changes “Do not create powers to make receiving a COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for the UK population.”

Of course, that could come later.

136114 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 1, #774 of 1680 🔗

Coronavirus: Van Morrison lockdown protest songs
 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54194408

136146 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Andrew, #775 of 1680 🔗

Robin Swann is picking on the wrong man

136115 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #776 of 1680 🔗

Long COVID

There are a lot of people pushing Long COVID as a reason to be cautious. Not an unreasonable argument but how much caution are they advocating?

Some simple questions to ask them would be:

As long as people aren’t dying would lockdown be justified to prevent people from getting Long COVID?

Is Long COVID treatable?

Does Long COVID ultimately lead to death?

136126 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #777 of 1680 🔗

Is Long COVID actually any different/more prevalent than post-viral syndromes resulting from any other viral infection, up until now largely dismissed by GPs as being all in your head or just being a bit tired and run down?

136130 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to A. Contrarian, 11, #778 of 1680 🔗

No, it’s no different and probably no more prevalent. Other than that, it’s all bollocks.

136142 ▶▶▶▶ john, replying to Sally, 2, #779 of 1680 🔗

so well worth spending 100’s of billions of pounds on trying to prevent a few hundred cases then? More serious than Cancer, obviously, which would never get that sort of funding and for which many life supporting drugs are denied as they are determined to be too expensive by NICE – an organization that has gone strangely quiet on the cost/benefit of virus prevention methods…

136480 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to john, #780 of 1680 🔗

NICE has to be silent. The cost per life saved is astronomical. The lives lost from other causes appear to be valueless though. (Obviously not in the eyes of people posting here.)

136140 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #781 of 1680 🔗

This is such nonsense and part of the scaremongering message. It is well known that some people struggle with the after effects of an ‘intense’ virus infection that incudes high fever; symptoms such as tiredness etc. Most conventional healthcare professionals are not trained to know that it is due to nutrient deficiencies and the quicker this is fixed the quicker the person will improve.

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n06.shtml

136225 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Victoria, 1, #782 of 1680 🔗

They make it up as they go along. Long Covid!!!!

136164 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #783 of 1680 🔗

This long Covid thing is really annoying. It’s such an easy scaremonger for something which is possible with many viral infections.

136482 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Nobody2020, #784 of 1680 🔗

Wouldn’t it have been more productive to have spent a fraction of the sum spent on lockdown instead trying to treat the unfortunate sufferers of ‘long Covid’…..if they are still ill in another 6 months.

136121 Andrew, 1, #785 of 1680 🔗

Ian Brown Lock Down song Dr Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOHn6KurHE0

136128 john, replying to john, 4, #786 of 1680 🔗

The latest BS from the the Guardian, tying itself in knots about the great Van Morrison coming out as a skeptic. I don’t know how these things work, but can we make his new tune number one for Xmas?

“In the UK, the Covid-19 fatality rate peaked at 15.7% .”

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/18/van-morrison-fascist-bullies-anti-lockdown-covid-songs

136143 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to john, #787 of 1680 🔗

Yes can’t wait to download his songs.

136486 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to Victoria, #788 of 1680 🔗

Ditto!

136477 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to john, #789 of 1680 🔗

The Guardian is hiding behind no comments again, I see. Very brave.

136131 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 10, #790 of 1680 🔗

BBC headline June 2022

“UK bracing itself for twelfth wave of Covid 19 – Seventh National lockdown possible government admits”

136141 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Hubes, 3, #791 of 1680 🔗

The twelve days of covid; an unseasonal carol.

136157 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to wendyk, 1, #792 of 1680 🔗

well this year it will have to be the 6 days of christmas due to the rule of six ban on gatherings of six or more. Hopefully some enterprising singer/songwriter can do a reimagining -could be fun

136183 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #793 of 1680 🔗

I suppose we could have six, followed by a break, and then another six.

Or four lots of three perhaps?

‘On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me
Some edgy PPE

On the second day of Christmas my true love gave to me
2 tracing apps and some edgy PPE

On the third day of Christmas my true love gave to me
3 Boden masks, 2tracing apps and some edgy PPE

Additional verses welcome

136226 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to wendyk, #794 of 1680 🔗

5 hand gels!

136270 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to DRW, 1, #795 of 1680 🔗

A few suggestions for 4:

4 lying twats (BJ, Hancock, Whitty & Vallance)

4 local lockdowns

4 zealots leaping

136258 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to wendyk, 1, #796 of 1680 🔗

6visors steaming

136253 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to wendyk, 1, #797 of 1680 🔗

12 Years a slave (to Covid)

136145 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 12, #798 of 1680 🔗

New restrictions for the NorthWest now.

“Residents are also advised only to use public transport for “essential purposes”.”

Sorry Boris, but for me, travelling down to Trafalgar Square next week is “essential” so you can stick your insane rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54194804

136193 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Chicot, #799 of 1680 🔗

Blackpool safe from restrictions for now

136147 Andrew, #800 of 1680 🔗

Get this shared high n wide. Ian Brown. Listen to the lyrics bang on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOHn6KurHE0

136151 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 12, #801 of 1680 🔗

Thanks to the dictator we now know that the virus can tell the time

Stay after 11pm in a pub and it will get you, before 11pm you will be fine

Bell rings “Last orders for drinks and virus at the bar”

These people are bonkers

136250 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cecil B, 2, #802 of 1680 🔗

A sceptic bar owner should actually do this – might wake some people up?

136159 Paul, 13, #803 of 1680 🔗

A trip to the carpet shop to buy some flooring yesterday was a bit more normal than usual.
I was pleased to see an unmasked young couple in there browsing,the first time I’ve seen any other customers in there without a muzzle,all of the staff never wear masks,they think it’s bollocks.
A masked woman was wandering around looking at the carpets and I noticed she kept glancing at me,after a while she gave a large sigh and unceremoniously whipped her mask off and shoved it in her bag,the first time that my being unmuzzled has prompted someone else to remove theirs.That meant everyone in the shop at that moment was barefaced,I haven’t seen that for quite a long time.
It’s bizarre that normal has become something noteworthy.

136160 Jay Berger, 14, #804 of 1680 🔗

1400 Belgian doctors calling the pandemic a scam.
Imagine 10.000 lazy British doctors having such guts and sense.
https://uncut-news.ch/2020/09/16/1400-belgische-aerzte-und-medizinisches-fachpersonal-schlagen-alarm-es-gibt-keinen-killervirus/

136163 alw, 3, #805 of 1680 🔗

The scandal of care homes continues. Where are the Care Quality Commission in all of this? We should be asking and be told. Similarly with schools Ofsted. Two quangos past their sell by date.

136165 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #806 of 1680 🔗

Dear Supporters,

This week we have received some incredibly frustrating news. Our legal challenge against the Government has been delayed yet again! Originally scheduled to go ahead on September 23, our hearing has been pushed back by a further month to October 29.

The excuse this time … one of the Government’s 11-strong team is on holiday and the availability of suitably senior judges to hear the case on alternative dates was also a factor.

As you know, the appeal was ordered to be heard by Lord Justice Hickinbottom who said that the legal challenge “potentially raises fundamental issues concerning the proper spheres for democratically-accountable Ministers of the Government and judges.”

With rumors of a second national lockdown gaining pace, this case is of the utmost importance to the entire nation. We believe that further delays only highlight the Government’s inability to face up to the disastrous decisions it’s made over the past six months.

Just this week, the British public has once again had its liberties stomped on with the implementation of the ‘rule of 6’. And now MPs are actively encouraging us to snitch on our own neighbors if we see them flouting these utterly absurd measures, with the Home Secretary claiming that families would be breaking the rules by merely ‘mingling’ in the street.

This marks the first time since the 1300s that mingling is an offence under English law. If that doesn’t evidence the greatest impingement on our human rights, then I don’t know what does!

On top of this, in their latest knee-jerk reaction, almost two million people in the North-East of England will be banned from mixing with other households and restaurants will have to shut by 10pm. This all comes into effect from midnight tonight.

How much more of this anti-life diktat do we have to put up with before people say ENOUGH?

Lockdown is a murderous tool which our leaders claim is imperative to protect those who are vulnerable to the disease. But what about those who are vulnerable to lockdown too?

We have seen in recent weeks that the Government, by its own admission, is willing to break the law. It cannot be allowed that these actions go unchecked and I urge everyone to consider the ramifications which the lockdown has had on our freedoms and liberties.

Action must be taken now to bring our leaders to account for the unforgivable damage done and to ensure that going forward, legislation is adequately scrutinized and challenged.

Therefore, it is vital that we gather as much support as we can. To help us in our mission, please continue to share our updates, our cause and the link to our Crowdjustice fund with your networks. Make sure you are following the Keep Britain Free social media channels, the links to which are below. Please also consider adding #KBF to your social media handles or bios to help spread awareness of the campaign far and wide.

For anyone interested in getting involved – we have pulled together some resources that you can use to help spread the values of free speech and independent thought. These can be found on our website here and include flyers for businesses and letters you can send to your MP. There is also a members forum on our website, where you can speak with other like-minded people dedicated to our cause.

Once again, I want to thank you all for your ongoing support. With nearly 17,000 people now signed up to Keep Britain Free, our voice and influence is getting stronger each day.


Together, we will Keep Britain Free.

Simon. https://www.keepbritainfree.com/

136184 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #807 of 1680 🔗

This bit is very illuminating:

This marks the first time since the 1300s that mingling is an offence
under English law. If that doesn’t evidence the greatest impingement on
our human rights, then I don’t know what does!

136190 ▶▶ alw, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #808 of 1680 🔗

The scandal is all the human rights lawyers standing up for the rights of illegal immigrants by blocking their deportation, yet they are noticeably absent in standing up for the civil liberties and of their fellow British citizens. Shameful.

136248 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #809 of 1680 🔗

Apparently (according to one of Francis Hoar’s contacts) it is the first time the term ‘mingling’ has ever been used in a law!

136334 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #810 of 1680 🔗

You know you are on the winning team when the rule makers delay on grounds of going on holiday. Doesn’t mean a thing about the outcome. But playing funny buggers is a sign of guilt to any common peasant.

136166 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #811 of 1680 🔗

So if 7 kids in a park feed the ducks they will receive a stern warning but in October it will be alright for masses of” Hooray Henrys” to blast their country cousins out of the sky.
Ducks,that is,not kids but let’s not give them ideas.

136209 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #812 of 1680 🔗

At least we know they won’t lockdown the entire country in hunting season. Of that we can be grateful. Make hay while the bullets fly!

136216 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #813 of 1680 🔗

It’s the shot that comes raining down when I’m fishing that bothers me.

136168 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 5, #814 of 1680 🔗

I thought it was bad that this lockdown had me watching (and agreeing with) Fox in the form of Tucker Carlson and also defending Donald Trump, but now, I find myself in agreement with the leader of Sinn Fein. Somebody shoot me please.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5917891/mary-lou-mcdonald-pubs-open-leo-varadkar-sinn-fein/

Lest anyone think I am just the stereotypical Irishman pining for a drink, I am a lifetime teetotaler. Pubs being open or closed don’t affect me personally.

136202 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #815 of 1680 🔗

I know that my politics have been completely radicalised by all this.

I am a Remainer but now the only sceptical party that has any kind of voice is UKIP so I will have to vote for them. I would never have thought it would come to this.

136227 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to jhfreedom, 2, #816 of 1680 🔗

Yes,but will we ever be able to vote again ?
I’m beginning to have my doubts.

136282 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to jhfreedom, #817 of 1680 🔗

I’m a Remainer as well, but I don’t know how sceptical UKIP is. I hate the idea of being forced to check them out.

Where is the Sceptics Party when you need them? Of course, the leaders may very well be subject to arrest, should they try to organise such a party.

136426 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to ConstantBees, 1, #818 of 1680 🔗

I am a remainer too and a socialist.
The problem is if a “sceptic” party was formed, when will there be any elections to take part in(genuine question)?

136494 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #819 of 1680 🔗

Absolutely. Who knows when we will have another election.

137305 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to ConstantBees, #820 of 1680 🔗

A proportion of local council elections were deferred for a year to May 2021, so there should be some 2/3 taking place then.

136171 alw, replying to alw, 2, #821 of 1680 🔗

And of today many establishments such as hotels will be taking the temperatures of their new guests. If someone has a temperature before going to establishment what is to prevent them from taking a few aspirin?

136187 ▶▶ Will, replying to alw, 5, #822 of 1680 🔗

The late great Auberon Waugh used to advocate an aspirin as a cure for most ailments. Amusingly, throughout his entertaining career he was increasingly proved right.

136455 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Will, #823 of 1680 🔗

I wonder what he would have thought of this.Michael Wharton another .

136189 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to alw, 3, #824 of 1680 🔗

I took an aspirin before boarding my recent flights to/from Greece. Just in case.

136276 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to alw, #825 of 1680 🔗

Yes, I’d had the same thought, so lots of people must be aware of this way to play the game.

136336 ▶▶ RickH, replying to alw, 1, #826 of 1680 🔗

It’s a crashingly stupid idea at the most basic level : a raised temperature stands a minuscule chance of it being the symptom of Covid – which is a very rare infection now.

Look at all the coughs, colds and tonsillitis now responsible for closing schools.

136174 Basics, 2, #827 of 1680 🔗

Covid Nudge

Covid DNA test in a tupperware box.
It’s in the Lancet its coming to a table top near you soon. Yes, Nudge, it is behavioural change in a tupperware box.

~ why even try and talk sense with this kind of high-lunacy being pushed at us. BBC covering Covid Nudge too.

136179 MizakeTheMizan, 6, #828 of 1680 🔗

I’ve got a signed copy of Aaronovitch’s book Voodoo Histories. In it he dismisses a variety of conspiracy theories, claiming that the original conspiracy theory was that against the Jews in the early part of the 1900s.

I got the book at a Sceptics in the Pub meeting, where I bought him a drink and chatted with him for some time afterwards.

It’s ironic that he has now bought into the Covid conspiracy, and thinks it’s okay to slur Lockdown Sceptics like those Jews in his book.

136182 Moomin, 17, #829 of 1680 🔗

I’ve just sent another email to Graham Brady:

Dear Sir,

I trust that you are well.

I have lost count of the number of emails that I have sent you concerning the government’s lockdown policy.

Please can I once again urge you to seriously challenge what this government is doing to our country?

It’s lockdown policy is ineffective and disastrous both in terms of loss of life and the impact on the economy.

Please can you do all that you can to stop this government and men like Matt Hancock from exercising any more control over the liberties and life of this country for the sake of our health for a virus that kills less people than the flu.

It is urgent and imperative that this creep into authoritarianism is halted as soon as possible.

Kind regards,

136185 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 4, #830 of 1680 🔗

I’ve said that there’ll be a second lockdown for a while now. The key was in the fact that they’ve been talking about a second wave since this whole thing started, without there being any evidence or reason for doing so (I think they may have mentioned the Spanish Flu, which is nothing like this). They’ve been priming us for it so that when it does happen, we’re not as surprised. However, I thought it would be late October-early November when they were able to call upon annual winter flu infections and annual winter flu deaths to give some type of substance to it, but they’re just doing it now.. out of nothing.

I’m wondering now if they’re actively trying to insight protests so they’ve got something newsworthy until flu season hits and they have some numbers (flu numbers, of course, but the mindless ones won’t realise). Imagine the headlines, “protests result in massive second wave of infections!”, then they either claim the winter flu is a “mutation” of covid, or they just hide at the very bottom of the article that the numbers are flu numbers. Funnily enough, if it is the case that they want to insight us to protest, the passivity of Brits nowadays might work in our favour.

136233 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to John Galt, 4, #831 of 1680 🔗

They have been creeping their 2nd lockdown in under the guise of local curfews for a few days but they are approaching their final move sooner than expected, probably because of the extent of Compliance and lack.of protest

136273 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to John Galt, #832 of 1680 🔗

Well, the story in the Daily Mail today is that there will be a two-week lockdown over the half-term so that school isn’t disrupted as much. I had to look up when the half-term is in England, and apparently it’s 26 October through 30 October 2020, which lines up with what you’re saying. I think there are local variations on the dates? Sorry, no kids, so no idea.

136285 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #833 of 1680 🔗

Last time, 3 weeks became 3 months.

136392 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to DRW, #834 of 1680 🔗

Exactly my thought. Just reporting what was in the paper today.

136312 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to John Galt, 6, #835 of 1680 🔗

All the dates of lockdowns, mandated face coverings, curfews, (anti)social distancing and all the other 2nd wave bollocks has been on the covid roadmap from day 1. They all know it and it doesn’t matter what the science tells us or true experts say we are fucked, greased up and bent over. The docile compliant people are plodding along too stupid to see it and work it out for themselves.

Listening to cunty balls Hancock this morning proves it, smug little prick is laughing at us and rubbing our noses in it.

Why do you think they have communist fucking behavioural scientists advising them. It’s never been about a virus.

Phew, that’s better, apologies.

136395 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stefarm, 3, #836 of 1680 🔗

Helps to get it off your chest. I had a bit of a rant here today myself. Nice to be somewhere supportive.

136197 Nsklent, replying to Nsklent, 16, #837 of 1680 🔗

A little lunchtime story. Got a bit bored driving and against my better judgement put Jeremy Vine on ( have avoided listening to his progamme for the past 5 months), wondering how long it would take before I started shouting at the radio, well under 2 minutes, I was driving down country lanes so no chance of looking demented by other drivers. Discussion was, of course, the curfew/ lockdown in the north east. One woman gùest, Nina somebody, basically put the number of cases, not positives, down to people not remembering to social distance, she laboured this point and that people are not remembering they cannot get close to people, well sorry for forgetting to be human. She firmly placed the blame on the young – well dear they are not forgetting, but know it’s a load of plop.
It doesn’t stop there … then we had the phone ins and one woman, who is so proud of her son and his Covid secure premises, laboured the point that we must respect this virus, this was repeated several times. She commented that when she hears shoppers grumbling , she tells them they must wear a mask and respect the virus, she is rather surprised they look at her as though she has lost the plot – enough said.
There was a notable underline message whether non compliance should be addressed, generally decisive and of course no real sceptics.

Went to the petrol station, no mask of course, the lady on the next pump wandered in to pay, no mask, my heart had a little sing, caught up with her in the shop, standing behind her in the queue and as she was speaking to the cashier she sounded very muffled. She was apologising for not having a mask and had a blue paper towel from the petrol pump dispenser over her face with her hand pressed tightly against her face – heart sank.

Went to the farm shop, vending machines in a shed, only one person in at a time. I was the only one there, got my bits and waiting to enter, standing outside in the sun, was a lone woman masked up, one of those that seems to envelop the whole face, and then went inside the shop, all on her own still masked-duuuh.
So that’s my lunacy experience for today. Now for a pot of tea and a slice of scrummy freshly baked bread and butter and sit in my garden and enjoy the natural pleasures they still have not found a way of destroying.

136205 ▶▶ alw, replying to Nsklent, 6, #838 of 1680 🔗

Listen to Talk Radio. Superb.

136280 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to alw, #839 of 1680 🔗

Second that! The only radio station worth listening to. JHB and Mike Graham in the mornings are ace! 🙂

Though I am somewhat dispirited to note that they do broadcast bedwetter government adverts….

136304 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #840 of 1680 🔗

I would imagine the reason behind that is purely monetary and they probably have a laugh that they are getting paid to broadcast it.

136204 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 35, #841 of 1680 🔗

I’m afraid the country is now well and truly fucked. It will take massive civil disobedience to bring this government to its senses.

136246 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Hammer Onats, 12, #842 of 1680 🔗

Just don’t see this happening ,I hate to say it but the world’s population have turned into quivering cowards and will quite happily give up their civil liberties and that of their own future generations even though the vast majority don’t know anyone who’s died from the most deadly disease known to man ,yet most can get irate at the sight of a maskless face …it’s unbelievable

136314 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to tonyspurs, 6, #843 of 1680 🔗

I agree. I see no sign at all of mass revolt.

People are pissed off – that’s true. But they still believe the narrative, even with a bit of doubt around the edges.

136400 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to RickH, 3, #844 of 1680 🔗

Hammer/Tony/Rick; all of you, sadly, are right. I haven’t had one comment or look when going maskless, but I’m nearly always on my own.

136898 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to RickH, 1, #845 of 1680 🔗

I wonder if that will change when furlough ends and people are faced with redundancy.

136880 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #846 of 1680 🔗

It will more likely take a bloody revolution. Our murdering traitorous government takes its orders from Bill Gates and it should be shown no mercy.

136208 alw, 18, #847 of 1680 🔗

Made my day

136210 DRW, 3, #848 of 1680 🔗

BBC articles in November:
Hancock: NHS T&T “critical” to easing lockdowns
“70% mininum uptake” required to prevent “terrifying” second covid wave
“Twindemic of flu and covid” could “swamp NHS” within weeks
Ferguson: “Millons dead” in second spike without lockdowns
Public supports bans on growing far-right protests
How will NHS T&T ensure a safe Christmas?
How are curfews cutting crime?

136212 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 19, #849 of 1680 🔗

Apparently, I’m classed as being in Greater Manchester; I’m not – I am in Lancashire, thank you very much. With that in mind, I’m going out now, if I can get the door open, climb over the bodies in the street and get past the road blocks. What rule shall we break today?

136239 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #850 of 1680 🔗

Masks.

136259 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #851 of 1680 🔗

Always masks. Maskfree is best.

Oh, and carry an exemption card for when you are harassed. Just waved mine in someone’s face today.

136286 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to ConstantBees, 12, #852 of 1680 🔗

No mask. No exemption card. No surrender.

136381 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #853 of 1680 🔗

Well, that’s great for you. But an exemption card is better than wearing a mask. I’ve seen several women thrown off the bus who weren’t wearing masks and who didn’t have exemption cards. And things are only going to get worse from here on. So being dogmatic is great, but I’d rather be practical.

Plus I have no interest in being pushed into any particular tactic by people on this board. The point is that we need to have our faces show like normal human beings and I do not have a single ally in my local area.

136391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #854 of 1680 🔗

I realise some folk are more sensitive, CB, but I wouldn’t want exemption cards to become the norm, it’s masks by proxy. But as true sceptics, we must say “each to his own”.

How is it these thugs doing the throwing off can’t take the two minutes that we have to look at the govm’t guidance. It is absolutely clear, surprisingly!

136492 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #855 of 1680 🔗

Of course, it’s absolutely clear. That hasn’t stopped them from throwing people, usually women, off the bus. Hence my choice to use an exemption card. I haven’t had a single comment from a bus driver since I started using one.

136215 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #856 of 1680 🔗

Just put in the follow-up request to start an investigation by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner about the behaviour of MPs and ministers.

Not going to hold my breath.

136625 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Awkward Git, #857 of 1680 🔗

What evidence did you present?

136219 Basics, 10, #858 of 1680 🔗

Van morrison, Ian Brown, Corrs, Noel Gallagher, probably more than i’m aware of. Almost enough for a jools holland style programme of musical dissent.

136221 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 13, #859 of 1680 🔗

Jeremy Vine R2
Some wretched government woman

“Well we want the pubs to stay open but they just aren’t socially distancing ”

JV ‘so why close them at 10pm ?’

“We want to get them out before they’re so drunk they’re falling over themselves…”

So there you go folks, that’s what they think of the plebs and I don’t even use pubs anymore.

136232 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to karenovirus, 8, #860 of 1680 🔗

Perhaps I should not say this as it will only encourage the insanity but if people have less drinking time will they drink at a faster rate? If the answer is yes then they will actually be more likely to be ‘falling over themselves’ as the alcohol input exceeds the burn rate by a greater value

136237 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Strange Days, 4, #861 of 1680 🔗

They used to call it the “nine o’clock swill” in Scotland, before the licensing laws were loosened. And since then tightened again…

136245 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Strange Days, 5, #862 of 1680 🔗

Not necessarily, they just go out earlier.
When they allowed pubs to open until 1 or 2 am people stayed in until 11pm before going out.
Thay ghastly woman clearly has no idea how people behave in.pubs.

136254 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to karenovirus, 2, #863 of 1680 🔗

That seems to be true of many of the ideas proposed in other fields e.g. Crisps/sweets/biscuits are bad for you so we will legislate to force the manufacturers to sell smaller packets. People then buy and eat 2 packets

136249 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Strange Days, 1, #864 of 1680 🔗

It doesn’t matter that it makes no sense. The excuses made by the regime for its demands are writ in water anyway. All that matters is compliance, grinding down our self-worth with petty compliance. The more obviously crap the justifications offered, the better these regulations work to achieve that aim.

136326 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Strange Days, 4, #865 of 1680 🔗

And the kids will just do what we used to do – preloading. Drinking a whole lot of cheap alcohol before going to the pub!

136421 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #866 of 1680 🔗

And the already precarious ecconomic situation of the pub takes another downward turn…

136655 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Strange Days, #867 of 1680 🔗

yep- we said this – but also more people there in less available time. And it was the same when they closed parks etc – more people then going to less, and smaller, open spaces so distancing harder to achieve.

136278 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 3, #868 of 1680 🔗

Well, I’m from the North, and here, we get paralytic every night (except we say “palletick” cos we’re thick), then go home covered in vomit and beat the wife senseless. Of course we do.

136322 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #869 of 1680 🔗

It’s the whippets I feel sorry for….

136385 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark, 2, #870 of 1680 🔗

They’re ‘appy as long as t’ gas fire’s on.

136389 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #871 of 1680 🔗

I’ve always felt you Northerners were too close to your pigeons. Veritable wet market up there. Just sayin’

136236 Gtec, replying to Gtec, 14, #872 of 1680 🔗

It isn’t only Sweden that one can hold up as example, but various states in the United States that didn’t go down the total lockdown route.

It would appear from the figures that the highest casualties of Covid have generally been in those states that have taken extreme lockdown measures. Just like here.

What really gets me is that no one, anywhere – except on sites like LS! – addresses these figures and findings, and looks at how they might inform their decision-making.

We certainly seem to be well into a post value-free scientific age where honest and open inquiry informs debate.

136256 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Gtec, 1, #873 of 1680 🔗

I’ve been trying to research which US states are the most sane in case I have to pull the panic lever and go back to the States, but I really don’t know which ones are the best for a sceptic. Any suggestions?

136269 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #874 of 1680 🔗

South Dakota is probably the best. It’s the Sweden of America and has even had some mass events recently.

136377 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to DRW, #875 of 1680 🔗

Ooh, I’d looked at South Dakota. The winters are brutal!

136390 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #876 of 1680 🔗

If you want a warmer climate then, I’ve heard that most of the south is near-normal although some cities and urban counties have muzzle mandates.

136452 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #877 of 1680 🔗

Seven states didn’t issue stay-at-home orders:

Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming

Georgia also opened up around April/May

All of these states have better outcomes than states that locked down harder.

136483 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nobody2020, #878 of 1680 🔗

Excellent! Thank you so much. I’ve never lived in those states, not even visited some of them, but I need to know that I have an escape route even though I’d much rather stay in the UK.

136601 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #879 of 1680 🔗

I think the Nordic countries or Netherlands would also be reasonable considerations. The Nordics will likely eventually, if not already, align themselves with Sweden and Netherlands are also a relatively free thinking society who are in a similar position to Sweden right now.

136868 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nobody2020, #880 of 1680 🔗

I had thought about Sweden, although the winters would be brutal – much like the northern tier of the US, as far as I can tell. I hadn’t heard that about the Netherlands. I’ll check it out. Thanks. Oh, I’d still rather stay in the UK. Even if I am foreign (!!), I still consider this my home.

136619 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ConstantBees, #881 of 1680 🔗

My sister was born in the US so she has a potential escape route from the UK too..

136866 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Carrie, #882 of 1680 🔗

I have to admit that it would be a desperate measure, most likely to escape mandatory vaccination, if that’s even possible. I left the US in 2018, and swore I would never go back again. Just waiting for the civil war to start after the November election. Oh, and of course, I’m not an anti-vaxxer.

136262 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Gtec, 3, #883 of 1680 🔗

The enlightenment is over, we’re going back into a dark age.

136238 Ian, replying to Ian, 11, #884 of 1680 🔗

JH-B with a great piece on Twitter re false positives and Hancock lying this morning. It needs to be shared and spread wide. Listen to the interview, he knows he is lying. This is something for the Parliamentary commissioner and NAO over misuse of stats, knowingly

136257 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ian, 2, #885 of 1680 🔗

Yes, just seen that – she’s really going for it now!
https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1306916494773755910

136272 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, #886 of 1680 🔗

And it’s already been retweeted 1.4K times!

136325 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, #887 of 1680 🔗

Great tweet.

136339 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Carrie, 2, #888 of 1680 🔗

https://twitter.com/d_spiegel/status/1306943201320873988
Spiegelhalter’s explanation to JH-B
 “If you test 1000 people at random, latest ONS figures estimate 1 will have the virus, and let’s assume you find them. But with an FPR of 0.8%, that’s 8/1000, and so you expect to find 8 false positives. That’s 9 positive tests, only one of which has the virus . Hope this is ok

136425 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to swedenborg, 1, #889 of 1680 🔗

The main take away is 1 in 1000 has the virus irrespective of false positives.

136265 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Ian, 2, #890 of 1680 🔗

He was lying his ass off!

136284 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ian, 5, #891 of 1680 🔗

He lied earlier on the Today Programme

“Don’t believe the stories about people being sent hundreds of miles for a test they are available in all areas of the country…”

Pants on fire

136252 ConstantBees, replying to ConstantBees, 48, #892 of 1680 🔗

Please excuse me for venting but I was just harassed on the bus.

I always sit at the very back of our single decker buses and the bus had no more than 5 passengers on it, so no one had to sit anywhere near me. However, an older “gentleman”, probably in his 60s, i.e., my age. chose to sit in the aisle seat of the row in front of me. I thought it a bit odd since bedwetters usually keep their distance from me.

Anyway, we get to my stop and I get up and start walking to the front. He waits until I am past him and says “wear a mask”. I turned around and held up my exemption card, which he obviously didn’t see when I was sitting down. He said, “oh, sorry” and I said “try to be polite next time” in my most American tones and proceeded to get off.

Of course, I now regret not lecturing him about harassment. I’m boiling mad because the coward waited until I was past him to say something. But he had deliberately sat about two meters from me for about 10 minutes, saying nothing. Miscalculation on his part since he didn’t reckon he was dealing with someone who would fight back.

Oh, yes, and of course, he’s male and I’m female, so there’s that as well. I doubt he would have said anything to a burly man. But I do h ope he will think twice before harassing anyone else.

Thanks for letting me blow off steam.

136261 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to ConstantBees, 4, #893 of 1680 🔗

No worries 🙂

136318 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Carrie, 4, #894 of 1680 🔗

It’s great having a support group. Thanks, y’all.

136821 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, 2, #895 of 1680 🔗

Well done, but why show him your card, he had no right to see it.

136264 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to ConstantBees, 8, #896 of 1680 🔗

Sorry to hear about this. However, I suspect you hit the sweet spot with your response. A bit of well-deserved and dignified shaming might give him pause for thought in future, whereas a lecture would have probably just made him so defensive that he would have shut down and been too busy being offended to receive the point of your message. I admire you for keeping your cool and hope your blood pressure returns to normal levels soon!

136315 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #897 of 1680 🔗

I think the only reason I kept my cool at all was because I was getting off the bus and the driver had already opened the door. The guy was too much of a coward to say something when he had to sit there near me for a while.

136277 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to ConstantBees, 13, #898 of 1680 🔗

You should have started screaming at the top of your voice “that man just exposed himself to me’

136292 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to ConstantBees, 6, #899 of 1680 🔗

No doubt sexism played its part but he will feel justified by the number of Police and politicians telling the public to take responsibility or ‘have a word’s.

Congratulations for your measured response.

136299 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to ConstantBees, 18, #900 of 1680 🔗

I have only had two people confront me and I have never worn a mask. I find it helps to have a couple of pithy comments prelearbed so they roll off the tongue as the first time o was causation out I just blurted our “I’m exempt you nosey old git!”. Second time I just smiled and said “pardon? All I can hear through your mask is baaaaaa”!

136307 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #901 of 1680 🔗

I like it!

136302 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to ConstantBees, 13, #902 of 1680 🔗

It’s not surprising, people are being explicitly or tacitly encouraged to do this. Reminds of a joke from Red Dwarf when they find themselves in a totalitarian soceity and a political poster which read something like: “vote fascist for another ten years of total law enforcement. Betray your family and friends, fantastic prizes to be won.”

136413 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to ConstantBees, 7, #903 of 1680 🔗

Well done! I had an experience with two women of my age yesterday as I walked into M&S through the wrong door. One muttered loudly ‘this is the exit’ – but I just ignored the comment. That was unusual for me, because ordinarily I would have said very sarcastically, ‘I know, it’s really sad isn’t it’. I must be mellowing with age – or is it the nice weather!

136484 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to ConstantBees, 7, #904 of 1680 🔗

Yes, there’s a bit of cowardice going on in terms of who is getting ‘called out’ on the mask non-compliance. No one has ever commented to my face, but I’m a (relatively) fit early middle aged bloke of nearly six feet in height. I fear a frailer person (and yes, maybe a woman) would be given a tougher time.

Another injustice to add to the list. Argh.

136863 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to jhfreedom, #905 of 1680 🔗

I’m glad no one’s harassed you. I’ve seen plenty of men “get away” with not wearing a mask on the bus, but women are usually challenged and I’ve seen a couple get thrown off.

As the guy today discovered, giving this woman a tough time is not a good idea – and exhibiting cowardice as he did it does not help. I will be watching for him in future.

Reminds me of a time in America when a man pinched my ass hard as I was getting off the bus. Once I stepped onto the ground, I went after him and started shouting about his behaviour. He looked sheepish and cowed. Then I realised that he was black, I’m a white woman and we were in southwest Indiana (might as well be in the deep South). I didn’t want him to get lynched so I backed off.

136666 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to ConstantBees, 2, #906 of 1680 🔗

A friend of mine who’s 76 got harassed the other day by a couple .My friend rang the bus company today to complain ,they said there’s not much they can do whereupon my friend said what happens if theres trouble on there normally and will the driver stop the bus .They said yes he will stop the bus and chuck them off or call the police ,so my friend said if it happens again i will press the bell and wait for the bus to stop then inform the driver and he can either evict the harassers or call the police .The guy from the bus company had to agree and said do that .

136274 MDH, replying to MDH, 9, #907 of 1680 🔗

Listening to Radio 3 lunchtime concert from the Wigmore Hall and the presenter is saying how wonderful it is to have a live audience again. Judging by the applause, there’s about 12 people present.

To me, it’s almost more depressing than silence. It’s just another indication of how the supine arts sector is allowing itself to bleed out in the bath. If they don’t go back to capacity audiences by the end of the year, there will be no Wigmore Hall, or anything else.

136287 ▶▶ Kev, replying to MDH, 6, #908 of 1680 🔗

We should mourn that passing, but they will have brought it upon themsleves.

Football and other spectator sports can go the same way, from a big football fan, taking the knee hardly helped endear them!

136306 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Kev, 4, #909 of 1680 🔗

The knee crap did it for me, cancelled my Sky and will never set foot in a Football ground again

136441 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cecil B, 1, #910 of 1680 🔗

Same here.they only got away with it because there were no fans in the stadiums

136319 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Kev, 4, #911 of 1680 🔗

Shouting at the TV isn’t a regular habit of mine, but when they bend the knee I do some combination of shouting, giving them the finger, turning my back, or even baring my bum. Do you know if it’s just the Premier League doing the knee now? On the Quest highlights of the lower divisions they haven’t been showing the start of matches.

137116 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Edward, 1, #912 of 1680 🔗

Actually the Premier League have pulled something of a u-turn, saying they are committed to anti-racism and equality & all that, but specifically distancing themselves quite clearly from the BLM organisation.

136295 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MDH, 7, #913 of 1680 🔗

Yes it’s pathetic.

I’m a member of a very good amateur symphony orchestra that has now not rehearsed properly since it’s last concert in early March.

I take my hat off to the members of the committee who have worked so hard to resurrect something from the ashes – which has resulted in two half-orchestras, masked and distanced playing in different weeks.

After the uncertainty caused by the latest act of the shit-show, they are gratefully seizing the opportunity graced to them to ignore the strict ‘rule of six’, and to continiue doing so.

I can’t face having anything to do with such a paltry, subservient concession (let alone feel grateful) – and I’m certainly not wearing a mask to play – so I’ve opted out. But I see up close the way the sustaining of this nonsense happens – because the players have no other option, and the propaganda is so egregious that the majority really don’t see that they’re being conned by one of the biggest lies in this country’s history.

136300 ▶▶ Edward, replying to MDH, 1, #914 of 1680 🔗

At least the Wigmore Hall are trying harder than the Royal Albert Hall. The latter have done some online stuff called “Royal Albert Home”, then (in conjunction with the BBC) the pathetic apology for a Proms season. Despite the size of the RAH they haven’t made any attempt to have live audiences, and now they have the cheek to send out emails begging for donations.

136275 Kev, replying to Kev, 4, #915 of 1680 🔗

BBC just fact checked Van Morrison’s lyrics.

I won’t print on here what I really think of the BBC, but it includes lots of expletives.

Who right now is the most hated person in Britain? Is it Matt Hancock, Boris or the Wee Krankie? Neil Ferguson, Piers Morgan right up there!

136328 ▶▶ john, replying to Kev, 5, #916 of 1680 🔗

Chris Whitty. He has the education to know better, and if he was a half decent doctor he would understand the concepts of risk benefit analysis and evidence based medicine, and consult with peers such as Dr. Heneghen, as any proper doctor would. He is a disgrace.

136331 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to john, 1, #917 of 1680 🔗

Yep, good call

136406 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to john, 2, #918 of 1680 🔗

The subservience of the medical profession has been one of the most depressing aspects of this shit-show. The sight of GPs cowering behind barricades is not good for the health, and nor is the compliance in hospitals to anti-medical diktats from management when, clearly, Covid is, by any measure a minor problem.

136478 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to john, #919 of 1680 🔗

Josef Mengele was ‘educated’ too.

136355 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Kev, #920 of 1680 🔗

What are they afraid of?

136289 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #921 of 1680 🔗

NASTY MCCORMICK
Van Morrison’s anti-lockdown songs aren’t protest music, just the mad mutterings of a grumpy old manThe formerly ‘apolitical’ musician’s ‘protest trilogy’ against lockdown is completely uninspiring – and will rally precisely no one
NEIL MCCORMICK
MUSIC CRITIC
18 September 2020 • 6:00am
comment image ?imwidth=100
comment image imwidth=480
Grumpy old man: Van Morrison

Who is that old, round and rather grumpy figure …

[Copy/Paste from copyrighted web site snipped. Mod.]

Born To Be Free is out Sept 25, As I Walked Out Oct 9 and No More Lockdown Oct 23

136337 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #922 of 1680 🔗

Nice try Neil, but Van is going to sell lots. I can’t wait

136402 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Victoria, 1, #923 of 1680 🔗

Yes, Frankie Goes to Hollywood’s ‘Relax’ springs to mind!

136290 nat, replying to nat, 4, #924 of 1680 🔗

Northern Ireland’s health minister Robin Swann has described three new songs by Sir Van Morrison that protest against lockdowns as “dangerous”.
“I don’t know where he gets his facts” He says “I know where the emotions are on this, but I will say that sort of messaging is dangerous.”

Surely there can be no better contender for the Lockdown Sceptics theme tune than one of the songs, “No More Lockdown” ?

No more lockdown
No more government overreach
No more fascist bullies
Disturbing our peace
No more taking of our freedom
And our God given rights
Pretending it’s for our safety
When it’s really to enslave

Belfast city councillor Emmet McDonough-Brown of the Alliance Party said he had asked the council to consider revoking Sir Van’s freedom of Belfast over the songs.

136316 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to nat, 1, #925 of 1680 🔗

BBC R4 news gave it quite a fair mention this morning playing a part lyric something like
“On March 18 Covid was downgraded from being a serious disease”

They stated quite neutrally
“(He) believes fake science is being used to make Covid seem more severe”
Without that “despite brexit” puzzled sneer.

136327 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to karenovirus, #926 of 1680 🔗

I must say it doesn’t sound like one of his catchier lyrics.

136320 ▶▶ john, replying to nat, 4, #927 of 1680 🔗

Songs are dangerous now, and should be banned. We should also demand that people wear ear plugs in case they inadvertently hear one….

136333 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to john, 3, #928 of 1680 🔗

Now you mention it I don’t know why earplugs have not been made compulsory. Probably in the pipeline, along with goggles.

136338 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to nat, 1, #929 of 1680 🔗

No evidence it works, but no evidence it doesn’t is good enough for the clowns to mandate it.

136293 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #930 of 1680 🔗

NASTY NEIL MCCORMICK IN THE TELEGRAPH

Van Morrison’s anti-lockdown songs aren’t protest music, just the mad mutterings of a grumpy old man
The formerly ‘apolitical’ musician’s ‘protest trilogy’ against lockdown is completely uninspiring – and will rally precisely no one

MUSIC CRITIC
18 September 2020 • 6:00am
Neil McCormick
Grumpy old man: Van Morrison

[Pls do not copy full content from copyrighted sources. Mod.]

Born To Be Free is out Sept 25, As I Walked Out Oct 9 and No More Lockdown Oct 23

136321 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #931 of 1680 🔗

Whilst I agree with the sentiments behind them, I have to say that some of those lyrics really are clunkingly awful!

136352 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #932 of 1680 🔗

If they will rally no-one, why is the reviewer chatting rubbish about them?

136294 Mark, 4, #933 of 1680 🔗

Surgeons have been forced to ‘play God’ during the coronavirus pandemic by choosing who they operate on… as leading doctor warns death toll among cancer patients who missed treatment could surpass that of Covid-19
Not really clear from the article whether he is talking about “having to play god” because of the disease or the response (back when it was highly active, in March and April).

136296 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #934 of 1680 🔗

https://covid19data.com/2020/09/08/why-speaking-english-may-spread-more-coronavirus-than-other-languages/

English the culprit?

According to a linguist from RUDN University, the number of COVID-19 cases in a country might be related to the existence of aspirated consonants in its main language of communication. This data can help create more accurate models to describe the spread of COVID-19.

136311 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to swedenborg, 1, #935 of 1680 🔗

Sounds unlikely to me. There is a saying about Welsh: if you can spit you can speak it!

136517 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #936 of 1680 🔗

Highly speculative. There is also an idea widely spread that Japanese is less prone to transmit hence the low C-19 incidence in Japan and they have also been told to keep quiet on the underground as an extra protection.

136297 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #937 of 1680 🔗

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2020/0918/1166020-why-close-pubs-and-restaurants/

Another pile of weasel worded bullshit.

TLDR – Pubs and restaurants have to close because the virus will spread silently for 3 days and we only contact trace for 2 days. Therefore the “cases” that are reported in homes are actually happening in pubs and restaurants.

136305 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Ewan Duffy, #938 of 1680 🔗

I thought Ireland never reopened its non-food serving pubs anyway.

136341 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Ewan Duffy, #939 of 1680 🔗

And on thejournal.ie:

This afternoon, Professor Philip Nolan, Chair of NPHET’s Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group, said: “We would like to go back and find out where people are getting the virus, but we don’t have the time or resources to pursue this academic exercise.”
On Twitter, he said : “We have lots of international evidence from better resourced systems on how the virus transmits: we know that social settings, including bars and restaurants, drive community transmission.”

Of course, the evidence is not specified! It also includes this classic paragraph:

One senior health official said that often the contact tracing process will only seek out contacts for the last 48 hours – the period during which an individual is infectious.
They stressed that contact tracers are not interested in where the disease came from , but are instead focused on where the disease is going as it’s passed to more recent contacts.

I thought that was the point of contract tracing????

136386 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to godowneasy, 2, #940 of 1680 🔗

I think that we have another classic example here illustrating how epidemiological modelling is a little corner of a fantasy world that should never be allowed anywhere near public policy formulation.

Bones and chicken entrails would probably do a better job.

136298 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 6, #941 of 1680 🔗

There’s no truth in the rumour that the prime minister, health secretary and the chief medical officer will be representing the UK at the next olympics in the grand slalom due to their experience of changing direction over long distances very rapidly?

136378 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 1, #942 of 1680 🔗

Can I just amend that sentence to get at a more universal truth :

There’s no truth in the … the prime minister, health secretary and the chief medical officer”

136301 Andrew Fish, replying to Andrew Fish, 5, #943 of 1680 🔗

My MP (the chief whip) has replied to my last broadside. The crux of his letter has basically been to claim the Goverment’s actions are proportionate and to completely ignore my points about false positives. Naturally, I’m not prepared to leave it there:

Subject: Testing II

Dear Sir,

Thank you for responding to my email of 11th September. Unfortunately, you failed to respond to the most important point. Testing is only a good thing if the test results are reliable and there is mounting evidence that, for the Covid PCR test, it is not. Here’s a quote from a document on your own website about the impact of false positives:

“An attempt has been made to estimate the likely false-positive rate of national COVID-19 testing programmes by examining data from published external quality assessments (EQAs) for RT-PCR assays for other RNA viruses carried out between 2004-2019 [7]. Results of 43 EQAs were examined, giving a median false positive rate of 2.3% (interquartile range 0.8-4.0%).”

Further, the paper goes on to say:

“When only a small proportion of people being tested have the virus, the operational false positive rate becomes very important.”

This, for me (and a number of experts like Carl Heneghan and Dr Mike Yeadon) is the crux of the argument. At present, according to your own figures, only about 2% of pillar 2 tests are returning a positive result. Clearly, the relatively small number of hospitalisations and even smaller number of deaths implies we are in a period of low prevalence, and with the recorded positive rate being lower than your median false positive rate it follows that a significant proportion of those test results are likely to be false positives (American studies have estimated it could be as high as 90%).

This matters. Why? Because false positives are not the same as those test results where a positive result is garnered from the amplification of a small amount of dead cell matter from a previous infection. Whilst it is still wrong to treat someone in that instance as a positive case, it is at least the case that – as we pass further from the peak of infection – those spurious results will become less likely. Unfortunately, false positives are worse – they are positive results when there has been no infection, or infection has passed so long ago that no RNA remains. This means that, even if Covid-19 had never existed, the PCR test would still turn up apparent cases of it in the population. If Government policy continues to be shaped by these results, we will never return to normal – even in the unlikely event of a successful vaccine – and increased testing will only exacerbate the problem by producing vastly more false positives. Now, I’m sure you’re very proud of being able to waste public money on a grand scale to produce these tests, but if the result of them is spurious results leading to more lockdowns, more economic and social damage and – naturally – a demand for more tests, I don’t think you’ve got anything to be proud of. To describe your actions as proportionate under such circumstances would go beyond hubris.

I have tried throughout this process to give the Government the benefit of the doubt. To assume that the appalling decisions being taken are the result of scientific and numerical ineptitude rather than corruption or benign intent. I certainly don’t buy into the grand (and frequently unscientific) conspiracy theories doing the rounds. However, the longer the Government continues to ignore the evidence – and there’s a lot of it out there – the longer it continues to dig itself and us into a hole, the more I have to entertain the notion that something here is deeply wrong. Somebody, and I don’t necessarily mean yourself, has to be deliberately taking bad decisions, presumably to line their own pockets. Whilst they are doing this, people are dying of cancer, suicide, abuse and other causes, the economy – whilst not quite as dead as it was in Q2 – is still tanking (the retail insight network is expecting retail to continue to struggle whilst measures such as facemasks remain) and the social fabric of the country is being torn apart, not helped by such anti-social policies as Covid marshalls. Basically, you couldn’t do much more damage to the country if you were trying to do it on purpose.

136303 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Andrew Fish, 5, #944 of 1680 🔗

Please, rather than simply buying the party line, trying to save face or whatever it is you think you are doing, look at the evidence. Lockdown and social distancing does not work. Countries with strict lockdowns like Belgium and Peru have suffered gravely. Sweden, meanwhile, feels able to loosen the few restrictions they put in place. We’ve had time to learn about the disease now and there’s strong evidence that the early peak in deaths both here and in Sweden was a direct result of last year’s unusually benign flu season. Given that Covid is still spreading through care homes without anything like the same impact, it’s reasonable to believe that this will not happen again. In fact, there are experts out there now who are saying that, because we locked down later and less strictly than other European countries we gave the virus much more time to circulate (anecdotally it may have already been here before Christmas) and we may therefore be much closer to Sweden than to Spain. There is still time to reassess the data – making sure it’s actually accurate to start with (the recent correction to hospital figures for Scotland is yet another case where it’s been shown to be flawed) and take a principled move towards reality.

Yours
Andrew Fish

136309 PrayingThisEnds, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 19, #945 of 1680 🔗

Need help…

An officer pulled my arm as I walked by on the tube because I didn’t have a face mask. I am a woman so this was a bit uncomfortable. I told him that I’m exempt from wearing a face covering. He then asked “what is your reason”? I told him I have breathing issues. I also told him I have an exemption card. He didn’t seem to care about the card. He said “Next time you need to show a written letter from your doctor.”
Then some busybody teenager went up to him asking him if he will issue a fine. I didn’t hear what he told her. I did not receive a fine.

According to the government website, it says I do not have to provide a reason nor show a letter from my doctor.

Has this happened to anyone else? I am in the right, yes?

Many thanks in advance.

136346 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 8, #946 of 1680 🔗

You are in the right, yes. In fact, you needn’t have told him about your breathing issues.

136356 ▶▶▶ PrayingThisEnds, replying to Andrew Fish, 5, #947 of 1680 🔗

Thank you. I felt intimidated and didn’t want to cause a scene but I couldn’t believed he asked.

136347 ▶▶ Edward, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 4, #948 of 1680 🔗

You are absolutely in the right. Check the information about exemption above in the main part of this site. Arguably the officer committed a minor assault and the teenager harassed you, but it might be more trouble than it’s worth to pursue those complaints.

136362 ▶▶▶ PrayingThisEnds, replying to Edward, 3, #949 of 1680 🔗

Thanks. I’d didn’t get his name or badge. I’m quite petite and he was much bigger. I honesty couldn’t believe it happened. The train was half full too. The teenager was practically wearing a bra as a top where she was most likely easily spreading her germs all over the seats! LOL.

136353 ▶▶ Kev, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 9, #950 of 1680 🔗

Firstly the officer has assaulted you, just by deliberately touching you.

Secondly, you do not have to produce a doctors note for an exemption, the officer Gestapo operative has no right to question your health status.

136364 ▶▶▶ PrayingThisEnds, replying to Kev, #951 of 1680 🔗

Thank you. I thought so. What should I say/do next time if this happens? Show the officer the website or something else?

136375 ▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 4, #952 of 1680 🔗

Confrontation rarely ends well when they are bullies like this one seems to be. He knows he has no right to lay hands on you, or he certainly should. Show him the card and then ask for his name and badge number and report him to his superiors if he continues his bully tactics.

136382 ▶▶▶▶▶ PrayingThisEnds, replying to Kev, #953 of 1680 🔗

I will if this happens again, thank you.

136628 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 2, #954 of 1680 🔗

I wouldn’t wait till it happens again i would go straight and complain .If you are near by go and ask another transport officer if you can speak to someone in charge or if at home now get on there website and complain .No one should touch you or be asking why you’re exempt .As far as i know they can ask to see your card beyond that nothing .

136918 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PrayingThisEnds, replying to wat tyler, #955 of 1680 🔗

Thank you. I think it was a police officer. Black and white uniform?
Do I go on London’s police website?

136970 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to PrayingThisEnds, #956 of 1680 🔗

I believe the metropolitan police and British transport police have similar coloured uniforms.As it was at the station i would go to the BTP website or just google how to complain to British transport police .I’m not sure how to find links and send but i’m sure someone on here with greater skill can find link .Good luck .

136976 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to PrayingThisEnds, #957 of 1680 🔗

Just had a look .Type in how to complain to the British transport police and it will take you straight to site and section you need .

137110 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to PrayingThisEnds, #958 of 1680 🔗

At a London train or tube station this will almost certainly be on CCTV, presumably under TFL’s jurisdiction. Might be worthwhile making a subject access request (GDPR) referencing the date, time, location to find said footage; even 1-2 still pictures would be hugely effective.

You might be unlucky, if the CCTV was installed by the same company that did all the cameras around the tunnel on the way back to the Ritz in Paris 1997, or around the Pentagon Sep 2001, they accidentally all stopped working… although the absence of cctv would clearly still be damning to the police too, if that were the case. Might be worth a shot?

136358 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 1, #959 of 1680 🔗

Check this:

https://laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Exemptions-from-definition-of-Shop-24-July-2020.pdf

print a couple of copies and take with you.

If an officer questions you again just say “exempt”, give no explanations but start reading off it to them.

136365 ▶▶▶ PrayingThisEnds, replying to Awkward Git, #961 of 1680 🔗

Amazing, thank you!

136412 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 4, #962 of 1680 🔗

You did not even have to explain why you were not wearing a mask, as per the Equality act 2010, as this is considered disability discrimination. There is a good explanation on the website http://www.factorfiction.com and it also illustrates the clauses to quote from that act.

136462 ▶▶ Will, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 4, #963 of 1680 🔗

Take his number next time and make a complaint. Actually quite simple to do and if he refuses to give you his number or, indeed, gives you his number when he is off duty he is breaking the law. They really don’t like giving up their number as it removes their cloak of anonymity with which they seek to intimidate people.

136576 ▶▶▶ PrayingThisEnds, replying to Will, #964 of 1680 🔗

Great thank you 🙂

136602 ▶▶ Paul, replying to PrayingThisEnds, 3, #965 of 1680 🔗

Disgraceful,the officer had no right to grab hold of your arm,what a brave man basically assaulting a petite woman.
I assume the officer was British Transport Police ?,I have nothing but contempt for most of them,in my dealings with them over many years they have never been much better than useless,this virus madness has gone to their heads and they are really enjoying throwing their (usually excess) weight about.
Only this afternoon a friend of mine was telling me of a run-in he had with one of them a couple of days ago,he said the officer was arrogant and very smug but my friend was in the right and he stood his ground and the bully backed down.It is particularly annoying when my friend has received a commendation from the Chief Constable of the BTP for saving someone’s life who was going to throw themselves from a railway bridge.

136317 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #966 of 1680 🔗

Got a quick reply from the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner’s office, what a total crock of shit:

Their initial reply:

On 18 Sep 2020, at 14:03, Standards Commissioner < standardscommissioner@parliament.uk > wrote:

Dear Mr xxxxxx,

Thank you for your reply. I must explain that although the Code of Conduct references the Nolan Principles, the preceding sections of the Code of Conduct; Section I, Purpose of the Code; II Scope of the Code; III Duties of Members; IV General Principles, are all designed to help frame the Rules of Conduct that subsequently appear in Section V. Rules . Further information regarding the Commissioner’s remit is found in paragraph 20 where it says, “ The Commissioner may investigate a specific matter relating to a Member’s adherence to the rules of conduct under the Code”.

The Commissioner cannot begin an inquiry into an allegation of a breach of one of the seven general principles of conduct (aka the Nolan Principles). The rules of conduct are ones that the House of Commons has decided MPs should follow because of their membership of the House, and the Commissioner may investigate allegations of breaches of only those rules. The Commissioner cannot investigate matters which fall outside her remit, however strongly others might wish her to do so.

The rules do not set “service standards” or specify the details of how MPs should conduct their constituency work. It is for each of the 650 MPs to decide for themselves which constituency issues they will or will not respond to, and whether to reply to correspondence.

The Commissioner may only investigate if a MP’s conduct would “cause significant damage to the reputation and integrity of the House of Commons as a whole, or of its Members generally” (paragraph 17 of the Code). As you will appreciate, that sets a high bar; first the MP’s actions must cause “significant” damage and, secondly, any such damage must impact more widely than on the reputation and integrity of the MP(s) involved.

The Guide to the Rules relating to the Conduct of Members places the onus on the complainant to ensure that their allegation is suitably evidenced. Based on our correspondence so far – I think it is unlikely that the Commissioner will begin a formal inquiry into the issues you’ve raised.

For further information, the Commissioner cannot look into:

·         What happens in the chamber of the House of Commons. That is for the Speaker.

·         What MPs have done when acting as Ministers. That is for the Prime Minister.

·         How an MP has responded to your concerns, or the “standard of service” they have provided.

·         How an MP has voted, or the policies they support.

·         An MP’s exchanges on social media.

The Commissioner will not reply substantively to emails about these matters, which fall outside her remit. Please note that no-one in Parliament is responsible for standards in the last three of these areas

My answer and rebuttal:

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I read the comment:

“The Commissioner may only investigate if a MP’s conduct would “cause significant damage to the reputation and integrity of the House of Commons as a whole, or of its Members generally” (paragraph 17 of the Code). As you will appreciate, that sets a high bar; first the MP’s actions must cause “significant” damage and, secondly, any such damage must impact more widely than on the reputation and integrity of the MP(s) involved.”

At the moment the House of Commons is held with almost total contempt by large swathes of the population so it’s reputation and integrity is no more.

If this does not justify an investigation I have no idea what does and as the Commissioner has no intention of even attempting to investigate the matter then the office is null and void and surplus to requirements.

I can understand why Intelligence UK is preparing a case to report the Commissioner to the International Criminal Court:

http://www.intelligenceuk.com/newsx10.html

The silence of the House’s Members for the past 7 months and the ever more dictatorial behaviour of the Secretary of Sate for Health has caused such significant damage to the reputations of every current Member of Parliament that is so damaging that it is doubtful that it will ever be regained.

More and more people are saying they are going to ignore the increasingly nonsensical rules and restrictions being introduced so what reputation and integrity do your refer to?

136329 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #967 of 1680 🔗

I was tempted to bring up Pride’s Purge in my latest missive. It’s beginning to feel like writing to a few army colonels and suggesting they act might be more productive than writing to our MPs and expecting them to do the right thing.

136345 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #968 of 1680 🔗

I was thinking of writing to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and HM Queen and tradition be damned and so on.

Maybe next step if the Judicial review fails.

136368 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #969 of 1680 🔗

Sorry if I am behind the curve here, but is this YET ANOTHER Statutory Instrument?

https://twitter.com/BigBrotherWatch/status/1306909468018475008

It would appear so, given the date…

Makes it MANDATORY for places to take your details for Track and Trace and there is a clause saying they must refuse entry to you if they have reason to suspect your details are false…

Includes pretty much EVERYWHERE where people socialise so ALL movements will be tracked and recorded..

Venues must display Gov-issued QR codes which link to the NHS contact tracing app when it’s launched next week.

Don’t have the app? You’ll be required to leave contact details, the time + date of your visit, the size of your group + the name of any staff member you interact with…

136447 ▶▶▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Carrie, 3, #970 of 1680 🔗

Yep. Time to ditch the smart phone when out and about.

136466 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to LuluJo, 2, #971 of 1680 🔗

Do you think people will actually stop going to places unless absolutely necessary now?

One precaution I would take is to NOT have a smart phone on me if taking part in any demonstration – I rather expect that people who take part will be ‘followed’ extra carefully by the authorities from now on…

136524 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Carrie, 2, #972 of 1680 🔗

I don’t go anywhere I don’t have to anymore. To be fair, around here most places don’t seem to be too hot on enforcing T&T but with this SI and the FPN (£1000) for pubs, restaurants etc for not implementing it, that’ll change. Lockdown in all but name.

136456 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 2, #973 of 1680 🔗

391 S>I>s yesterday, this afternoon 399 so another 8 added.

136464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #974 of 1680 🔗

Have to find out what the other 7 are 🙁

136445 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Awkward Git, #975 of 1680 🔗

You think that they aren’t in on the scam?

136359 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #976 of 1680 🔗

I’m thinking they are all under instructions to say it’s proportionate because of Simon Dolan’s case..

136332 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #977 of 1680 🔗

Sorry to make things more depressing but why is the BBC using this image ?

136373 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #978 of 1680 🔗

They want to normalise mask wearing

137016 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Julian, 1, #979 of 1680 🔗

An oxymoron surely
And only morons wear them!

136344 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #980 of 1680 🔗

Why don’t they use the Nightingale hospitals to move the elderly to rather than back to care homes?

136404 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sarigan, 1, #981 of 1680 🔗

Good question. One that will never be asked by the mainstream media.

136419 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, #982 of 1680 🔗

Get Julia H-B to ask it – she’s on a roll at the moment!

136552 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Sarigan, 3, #983 of 1680 🔗

Because that would be sensible and the shower of fuckwits that call themselves government don’t know the meaning of the word.

136841 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Sarigan, 1, #984 of 1680 🔗

Um, because they’re trying to pull the same trick they did the last time? You know, untested people put amongst the vulnerable. And then blame the public for the result. Same s**t, different day.

136348 Nick Rose, 4, #985 of 1680 🔗

Right-o, I’m outta here to do my bit elsewhere, got a wee bit of travelling to do. I’ll be back Sunday. Try to enjoy yourselves in the meantime…

136350 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 5, #986 of 1680 🔗

The NI health minister has come out quite strongly against Van Morrison’s anti-lockdown songs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54194408

He’s said the songs are ‘dangerous’, have you ever hear such drivel from a politician? Also that Sir Van should offer up his ‘evidence’ of scientific cover up. I’ve written to ask the Minister what he makes of the False Positive scandal relating to the fundamentally flawed PCR test. I’m not holding my breath awaiting the reply.

136357 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Mike Collins, 3, #987 of 1680 🔗

On the basis that any publicity is good publicity, the minister’s intervention might actually be helpful to Van M.

136401 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mike Collins, 4, #988 of 1680 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/18/government-pushing-unprecedented-online-censorship/
Why is the government pushing unprecedented online censorship?
Official plans are an authoritarian threat to our freedom of speech, and would prove a nasty surprise to most internet users

As linked above.
Dangerous viewpoints/Disinformation = anything the PTB don’t like or want to hear. Anything that disagrees with their propaganda.
Conspiracy theories = anything not yet admitted by the PTB. Give them time. Yesterday’s conspiracy theory is tomorrow’s ministerial press conference.

136415 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, 1, #989 of 1680 🔗

Not only them – Facebook too… From the group ‘Citizen Go’ (‘ A community of active citizens that seeks to promote the participation of society in Politics’  – see citizengo.org)

‘An “independent” advisory board is being created with the power to review your posts and decide if you are allowed to speak or not.
Already, it has the moniker of Facebook’s “Supreme Court.”
When I first heard of the idea, I was worried about what was in store — but it’s worse than I could have imagined.
Of the 20 members of this review board, 18 are openly linked to left-wing mega-donor George Soros!
If the plans for this board are not rolled back quickly, Facebook will not control the actions of this new board — in fact, they are required to abide by their decisions no matter what.’

136584 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Mike Collins, #990 of 1680 🔗

“Van Morrison song alludes to debunked conspiracy theory”- amazing how they twisted this- That’s not a conspiracy theory-it’s a statement on the Gov.uk website.

136351 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #991 of 1680 🔗

https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1306878562553782273
Perhaps media calm down a bit, school start
 “The latest data relating to the triage of COVID-19 symptoms through NHS Pathways 111, 999 and 111 online. 20,735 triages/journeys were completed yesterday, a 44% decrease since Monday. 40% (8,274) of yesterdays total were people aged 0-18yrs.

136371 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, #992 of 1680 🔗

No! Big scary spike surge skyrocket in two weeks!

136372 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to DRW, #993 of 1680 🔗

You forgot unprecedented

136379 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to swedenborg, 5, #994 of 1680 🔗

I don’t see what 111 data is telling us any more. They’ve told us that covid symptoms are almost everything under the sun and are common with all other respiratory infections, so all 111 is now picking up is people panicking over the start of the normal cold and flu season at the start of the school term. It’s become a fairly useless metric.

136354 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 14, #995 of 1680 🔗

David Aaronovitch is representative of a group of people who would like to turn the UK into an authoritarian, rule-bound, nanny state, ruled over by “the great and the good”. They’ve seized on the “pandemic” to try and usher in their wish through the back door.  The outlook of these people is based on a mistrust of ordinary folk – simple as that.

136383 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to James Marker, 3, #996 of 1680 🔗

There’s rather too much praise for the Chinese approach to this at the moment. And quite a lot of people in Universities who are funded by a constant flow of Chinese students.

Are those that are paying the piper calling the tune?

136422 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Marker, 4, #997 of 1680 🔗

I believe that Aaronovitch is half Jewish. You’d think he’d be a bit more wary about backing a fascist line.

136512 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to RickH, 10, #998 of 1680 🔗

As a Jewish person myself, my fascism radar started going off in March with the first lockdown. I feel like I’m one of those rare Jews who was sounding the alarm in Germany in the early ’30s and nobody is listening. I’d like to think I would have been among those who saw what was coming and got out, but in this case there’s nowhere to go.

136360 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #999 of 1680 🔗

Hi all. Does anybody know how Carl Henheghan got on yesterday as witness at Sci and Tech committee on PCR tests? Here’s what he was attending. https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/135/science-and-technology-committee-commons/news/119020/coronavirus-testing-and-contact-tracing/ Thanks 🙂

136367 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1000 of 1680 🔗

I watched it avidly and thought he was superb. I was just mulling over whether it would do any good since it could be months/years before the committee prepares a written report for parliament and I don’t imagine many MPs would bother to read it properly if they did!

136369 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1001 of 1680 🔗
136895 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Sarigan, #1002 of 1680 🔗

Thanks so much. Just watched. It was fantastic. Carl Henhegan is brilliant.

Who was the blonde woman interrupting him each time he (or anyone else) suggested there needed to be a proper strategy or to accept it was endemic?

It’s extraordinary to think that this isn’t what is KEY… where is the strategy? Where are the objectives? Why are these fundamental questions not answered? I’m ranting now. But seriously, there is no excuse for ruining the world’s economy and freedom because you didn’t have have a set of objectives

136376 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1003 of 1680 🔗

Agree with the comments of Charlie Blue and Offlands.

136569 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #1004 of 1680 🔗

well worth a watch. Heneghan dominated to the point the other attendees were addressing their comments to him. Now we need him to have a quiet word with Hancock, first to straighten him out on FPR and then to advise on a general strategy

136380 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 18, #1005 of 1680 🔗

Second week at school and the “back to school” sore throat and cough is going around.

How can that be now we have discovered The Power Of The Mask?

136393 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #1006 of 1680 🔗

Selfish, irresponsible covidiots not following the rules!

136399 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to DRW, 2, #1007 of 1680 🔗

Absolutely. Just not trying hard enough.

136435 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #1008 of 1680 🔗

It’s all of us evil people who don’t wear them, duh.

136504 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #1009 of 1680 🔗

But we’re not the ones getting sick! Funny that…

136384 B Boru, replying to B Boru, 11, #1010 of 1680 🔗

I suggest all you good people on here who still think this can be solved within the current system think again, by evidence of the number of MP’s replies being posted has the penny not dropped yet?

These cult members who hold authority over you do not give a toss about any of you or what you think, they answer to a higher darker power.

By thinking you can hold a government to account through the government department of PR that is the BBC and it’s propoganda political chatshow Question Time seriously shows the flaws in your thinking. By hoping that Psychopaths and empathy deleted servants of Mordor will listen to reason and compassionate pleas is again, wishful thinking.

This is the attitude which has got us here in the first place. Putting your faith and hope into an already corrupt, dishonest, unaccountable system which has spectacularly failed you time and time again and follows no semblance of what could be described as a democratic free societal parliamentary structure is frankly the definition of insanity and delusional.

Everything you think you know about how the system works is wrong. You have been lied to your entire life and history shows and proves that any gains to personal freedom and liberty have always come through great struggle and popular uprisings without fail. It is never given volountarily by those who seek to opress and control.

The truth is going to be a hard and bitter pill to swallow for a lot of people very soon as all of this becomes increasingly more blatantly evident.

If you choose to ignore and carry on regardless hoping that the BBC or any other cretinous mainstream media journalist or health expert is going to have a conversion on the road to Damascus and suddenly repent their sins is the definition of a futile exercise.

So keep looking at the data, keep thinking that it is all real and ‘the virus’ is really out there and it is only through small mindedness, individual political self interest and incompetence that the current situation has come about if it gives you comfort.

The test IS the scam and if you don’t see that by now then you never will. They can make it represent whatever they want it by manipulation. Hence why all the focus suddenly turned to the testing! It’s not rocket science FFS!!

I wish you all the very best and good luck! You’re going to need it!!

The only question remains is this……

What are YOU prepared to do to take control and responsibility for your own life and actions. Protect those you care about and stand up for what is right?? Sitting wishing ‘somebody would do something’ ion your behalf s loser talk.

I hate to break it to you but none of them (MP’s, Doctor’s, scientists, journalists etc) on the payroll are going to listen or help you. In fat, they hold you in utter contempt and couldnt care less if you live or die. they have made their pact and shown their true faces, you still have a choice.

A vision of what WILL come if you don’t, be afraid because this is what you all allowed to happen by giving all your power away and succumbing to convenience and apathy….enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSi0dAwYKos&feature=emb_logo

136446 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to B Boru, 2, #1011 of 1680 🔗

A “higher darker power” being the operative phrase.

136394 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 5, #1012 of 1680 🔗

What reveals the utter absurdity of the government’s position is the contradiction between (1) saying that they will react promptly proportionately and rationally to the circumstances as they happen ( and their ‘world beating’ track and trace system will enable them to do this) and (2) issuing statements that the 2nd lockdown will be for a specific & limited 2 week period in October. Why can’t everyone see how utterly bonkers this is? How can they know now that LD will be (1) necessary and (2) effective in a month’s time and (3) that it should be for a prescribed 2 week period? How can anyone possibly believe that if introduced, they will stick to 2 weeks? How much more rope does this government need before people, en masse, wake up?

136411 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Telpin, 6, #1013 of 1680 🔗

And it won’t be for two weeks.

136838 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1014 of 1680 🔗

And it won’t be over in time for Christmas.

136416 ▶▶ john, replying to Telpin, 7, #1015 of 1680 🔗

And if the situation is as dire as they say it is, why wait till October? Mind you, those returning from random places abroad seem to become contagious at exactly 4am in the morning, so maybe i don’t understand the full science behind this….My belief is that they are making this BS up as they go along in order to be seen to be doing something – then, when the virus fades as all viruses do, they will claim that their actions saved the world from catastrophe, and the majority will believe this.

136434 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to john, 5, #1016 of 1680 🔗

I firmly believe that this is what they are doing, John. All this is smoke and mirrors to save their a*ses! I can imagine the headlines in December “Bozo saves Christmas”

136467 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Margaret, 3, #1017 of 1680 🔗

Maybe there is some truth in the “All over by Christmas” remarks, although it’s all so full of shit you can’t believe any of it.

136442 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to john, 1, #1018 of 1680 🔗

That has been the intention since they cleared the decks for the wave of patients that didn’t arrive in March.

136454 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to john, 3, #1019 of 1680 🔗

I doubt they will wait for October. We’re just having a few days of softening up – the lockdown areas are going to start meeting in the middle of the map before long and they will just go all out.

136789 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Charlie Blue, #1020 of 1680 🔗

Certainly, they have galloped it in the past. Sooner rather than later seems likely.

136396 Don't say much, replying to Don't say much, 15, #1021 of 1680 🔗

Couple of random thoughts. First off met my 85yr old mum on Wednesday for the first time in six months. Started talking about covid, and her reaction was “I’ve had my turn, and I would rather die of this than dementia” this got me thinking. Hancock the Granny Slayer, is telling us to do as were told, or we will kill granny. Has anyone actually asked the grannies of Britain what they actually think?

Secondly I overheard on the radio that Newcastles night time economy was worth £340 million. The experience of prohibition America suggests that demand on this scale will be met illegally if legal places are restricted. So I wonder how much of this will end up in the pockets of organised crime. There’s always places to go, for the people who know.

136417 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Don't say much, 1, #1022 of 1680 🔗

I have asked my mp this repeatedly. She hasn’t answered the question so I am assuming they havent asked them no.

136423 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Don't say much, 10, #1023 of 1680 🔗

My parents are in their 90s. They would prefer it if their grandchildren could get on with their lives than be tortured for their ‘benefit’.

136487 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 10, #1024 of 1680 🔗

My mother in law is over 80 and vulnerable, knows all this is rubbish, her verdict is that the virus has sent everyone mad. Because of the economic circumstances of her country and family at the time, she never made it past primary school. She just knows bullshit when she sees it, and knows what living is.

136398 William Hand, replying to William Hand, 16, #1025 of 1680 🔗

Dog has a problem. Got an urgent vets appointment at 5-00. But only one of us in at a time, meaning only my wife or I can go in with the dog. Also masks required. FFS. Good mind to put a mask on the dog for good measure. And this in the part of the country currently with the lowest deaths and +ve PCR tests. Hate this fucking government. Bastards.

136410 ▶▶ Kev, replying to William Hand, 11, #1026 of 1680 🔗

Why not put a mask on the dog only (assuming it wont bite you if you do) and say you misunderstood the rule. Don’t take another maksk with you!

Would they dare suggest you wear the mask your dog was wearing? If they do ask them to repeat what they said as you record it on your phone.

136414 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Kev, 8, #1027 of 1680 🔗

…put a mask on the dog only…and say you misunderstood the rule…

Oh, Kev, that’s inspired!

136418 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RichardJames, #1028 of 1680 🔗

Great idea!

136427 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Kev, #1029 of 1680 🔗

He he nice one! I do not have a mask anyway as I do not wear one.

136433 ▶▶ Will, replying to William Hand, #1030 of 1680 🔗

I wasn’t allowed in with my dogs yesterday when they had their boosters.

136408 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 16, #1031 of 1680 🔗

Coronavirus: Police appeal after NHS worker left unconscious after bus attack ‘triggered by face masks’

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-police-appeal-after-nhs-worker-left-unconscious-after-bus-attack-triggered-by-face-masks-12074715

Virtue signalling NHS worker decides to have a go at a guy on the bus because he’s wearing his mask under his chin, then get’s a pasting. What does he expect? If he’s gonna start mouthing off at people for wearing a mask incorrectly or not wearing a mask, then sooner or later you’re gonna come a cropper when the person you’re having a go at takes offence and isn’t very mild mannered.

136429 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 14, #1032 of 1680 🔗

The main culprit is the government that created this situation.

136448 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 12, #1033 of 1680 🔗

During the six months, they have done nothing but follow a policy to create division, so far we’ve had:

Zealots v Sceptics (or those who see the reality and want to live their lives)
Black v White
Masker v Non-Maskers
Nations v Nations

All created to divert the attention away from Gov and their actions.

136568 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to JohnB, 3, #1034 of 1680 🔗

And old vs young and now
north vs south

137013 ▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to CGL, #1035 of 1680 🔗

neighbour vs neighbour

136516 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to JohnB, 2, #1036 of 1680 🔗

Not an NHS worker he worked for Serco or a subcontractor to Serco
However the video does show the advantages of wearing a mask in certain circumstances

136540 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to 6097 Smith W, #1037 of 1680 🔗

Sky trying to sell the NHS work to more fit the story to their narrative.

136520 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to JohnB, 2, #1038 of 1680 🔗

Good on him!! Track and Trace scum. He deserved much worse than what he got.

136522 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to JohnB, 2, #1039 of 1680 🔗

Ironic that the brainwashing he has had via the NHS got him a right hander, maybe he should be part of the NHS duck and run or NHS keep your nose out and trap shut

136420 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 14, #1040 of 1680 🔗

I just listened to Julia Brewer-Hartley interviewing Hancock on Talk Radio and not only did he think the false positive rate was under 1% (it’s probably double that) but he doesn’t understand what a false positive is. He thinks a false positive rate of 1% means that out of 100 positive results only 1 is false rather than 1% of the number of tests done! So if the false positive rate is 1% and you do 10,000 tests you will get 100 false positives. Unfortunately she didn’t pick him up on it presumably because she didn’t understand either. Have a listen it’s at around 1m 50s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEqm0ldWf-8

Clearly the best word to describe Halfcock is that anglo-saxon one used by Johnny Mercer to describe James Delingpole the other day! (spoiler it begins with c and ends in t)

136430 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DocRC, 10, #1041 of 1680 🔗

I’d use a stronger word than ‘clot’ 🙂

136458 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to DocRC, -4, #1042 of 1680 🔗

“He thinks a false positive rate of 1% means that out of 100 positive results only 1 is false rather than 1% of the number of tests done!”

This is correct, if there was 100 positives, then with a FPR of 1%, 1% of that 100 is 1.

136471 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to JohnB, #1043 of 1680 🔗

But what if there were 10,000 test producing 100 positives? The FPR of 1% could produce all those 100 positives.

136485 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, -2, #1044 of 1680 🔗

The FPR only applies to tests that have come back as Positive (100), not the Total Number of Test (10,000).

136489 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to JohnB, #1045 of 1680 🔗

I was never good at math, should have been a politician.

136493 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gemma_D, replying to JohnB, 4, #1046 of 1680 🔗

I am not sure that’s correct. FPR is the proportion of negative cases incorrectly identified as positive cases in the data (i.e. the probability that false alerts will be raised).

136624 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to Gemma_D, 2, #1047 of 1680 🔗

Gemma is correct. The False Positive rate applies to the number of actual negative cases.

So if 1% of the population had Covid and the test had a False Positive rate of 2%, testing 100 people would result in 1 true positive and ~2 false positives (2% of 99).

So the chance of someone who tests positive actually having the virus is 1 in 3. As the actual rate of Covid in the community decreases, the bigger effect the false positive rate has.

136633 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to PaulParanoia, 1, #1048 of 1680 🔗

I also assumed that was the case. If it weren’t, false positives wouldn’t be so much of a problem, as they would decline at the same rate as genuine positives.

136498 ▶▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to JohnB, 2, #1049 of 1680 🔗

No, see this paper from NHS England:
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-07/core-principles-for-utilisation-of-rt-pcr-tests-for-detection-of-sars-cov-2.pdf

Look at this table from the paper:

comment image

Ot a prevalence of 0.1% out of 10,000 tests they expect 209 positives of which 200 will be false positives and only 9 true positives. So FPR of 2%= 200 false positives!

136523 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DocRC, -4, #1050 of 1680 🔗

The reason why the False Positives in that table are so high is because the sensivity value is extremely high.

“A test that’s highly sensitive will flag almost everyone who has the disease and not generate many false-negative results.”

You weren’t giving me any of that information you were just saying an FPR of 1%, which with 100 positives is 1.

136501 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to JohnB, #1051 of 1680 🔗

Blimey, Skipper. If you are right about this and Heneghan has got the wrong end of the stick then we are in more trouble than I thought!

136515 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Charlie Blue, 7, #1052 of 1680 🔗

he isn’t right Prof. Heneghan is right

136533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ rms, replying to Charlie Blue, -1, #1054 of 1680 🔗

Yep.

136514 ▶▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to JohnB, 7, #1055 of 1680 🔗

That might be your interpretation, but you are wrong the FPR would be how many positives would get from a 100 negative samples.
If anyone is in any doubt that you are wrong, you are agreeing with Matt Hancock.

136534 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to 6097 Smith W, -5, #1056 of 1680 🔗

How can a negative sample be a False Positive, it has never been Positive so can’t be a False Positive, the only thing it could be is a False Negative!

136712 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to JohnB, #1057 of 1680 🔗

Here’s a calculator I made to help you understand. Number input is buggy but the calculations themselves should be accurate: https://coronacalculator.azurewebsites.net

136538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ rms, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #1058 of 1680 🔗

Nope. False Positive Rate is the “rate” in the total population, not of the “tested” positive. Re-read Ferguson’s Paper https://lockdownsceptics.org/radical-uncertainty-and-government-innumeracy/ and dust off your probability and statistics text books.

136530 ▶▶▶▶▶ rms, replying to JohnB, #1059 of 1680 🔗

Nope. False Positive Rate is the “rate” in the total population, not of the “tested” positive. Re-read Ferguson’s Paper https://lockdownsceptics.org/radical-uncertainty-and-government-innumeracy/ and dust off your probability and statistics text books.

136558 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to rms, 1, #1060 of 1680 🔗

Damn you GCSE maths!

136679 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to JohnB, #1061 of 1680 🔗

Sorry skipper, remedial maths for you this evening! 😉

136588 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to JohnB, -1, #1062 of 1680 🔗

Fuck off 77

136528 ▶▶▶ rms, replying to JohnB, #1063 of 1680 🔗

Nope. False Positive Rate is the “rate” in the total population, not of the “tested” positive. Re-read Ferguson’s Paper https://lockdownsceptics.org/radical-uncertainty-and-government-innumeracy/ and dust off your probability and statistics text books.

136566 ▶▶▶▶ muzzle, replying to rms, -3, #1064 of 1680 🔗

Is that really correct as well. If we tested half a million so far, that’s not even 10% of the population so to have a FPR of ~4%, that would need to be about half the tests coming back positive and I don’t think that’s the case.

136630 ▶▶▶▶▶ rms, replying to muzzle, #1065 of 1680 🔗

Re-read the Ferguson paper published here (link above).

The actual FPR is not published and for all I know is not known. Some recent papers are back calculating it and guessing it’s 2-3%. Say 2%. Then if 500,000 tests, would be ~10,000 false positives (less the “real” positives), e.g. test say “yes”, but actually “no”. The problem for us lay-people is that some real rates/numbers don’t seem available unless one digs very hard. But to say that FPR is a percentage of the tested positives is way off and can lead to very erroneous conclusions.

136638 ▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to muzzle, 1, #1066 of 1680 🔗

I think “population” here refers to the group of people tested, not to the total national population.

136539 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JohnB, 5, #1068 of 1680 🔗

The FPR is the number of false positives generated from testing regardless of whether there is the presence of the virus or not.

Simplest example is where there is no virus at all. If you test 1000 people you would get 10 positive results.

Clearly the significance of the FPR diminishes the higher the prevalance of infection within the community. If all 1000 people were infected then 1 false positive would be insignificant.

However if the prevalance is low then FPR will have a major impact on the data.

NB To add to this, a false positive could very well be somebody who is actually positive for viral material but not actually infectious.

136507 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DocRC, 2, #1069 of 1680 🔗

Pleasingly in the last hour or so the number of retweets of Julia’s post this afternoon re false positives (felling Hancock’s claims!) has gone from 1.4K to 2.2K 🙂

136536 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, #1070 of 1680 🔗

So it’s getting some attention then.

136615 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 1, #1071 of 1680 🔗

Up to 2.6K now!

136600 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to DocRC, 2, #1072 of 1680 🔗

Sensitivity: The percentage of people who test positive who should be positive, the remainder test negative when they should be positive. (Sensitivity of 99.8% means for every 1000 who should test positive 2 will be false negative)

Specificity: The percentage of people who test negative who should be negative, the remainder test positive when they should be negative. (A specificity of 99.8% means for every 1000 who should test negative 2 will be false positives).
Using these ratios:
At the height of an epidemic you would expect those who are exhibiting symptoms to test positive, but for every 998 true positives there will be 2 false negatives. Don’t forget that only people who exhibited symptoms were tested.

Debris from the viral RNA can remain for up to 90 days.

If you now test people without symptoms (as they are trying to return to work, or someone they have met has had a positive test), yet who have never shown symptoms (otherwise they would have been tested earlier) but were infected in the recent past (mainly younger people) you will suddenly see a rise in positive tests, not because they are actively infectious or even infected, this will give rise to false positives, particularly if too many amplification steps are used.

What should have happened was obtain a sample from someone who was unwell, take as many steps as needed to just identify the viral infection as being present to show a positive result.
Take a sample from someone who had two of the symptoms, amplify by the same amount as sample 1, if negative, increase amplification step until just positive.

This then defines the threshold, anyone who is negative at this point is negative.

136752 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to DocRC, #1073 of 1680 🔗

Sadly I guess he does not speak German. Bodo Schiffmann explains tis very well almost every day in his videos. His sarcasm if such a breath of fresh air.

136428 DRW, replying to DRW, 10, #1074 of 1680 🔗

Why has nobody asked why are we still antisocial distancing if masks work?

136432 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to DRW, 4, #1075 of 1680 🔗

The benefit of masks is nugatory at best. Don’t you Hands, Face and Space. Or is hands, knees and bumps a daisy? Ring a ring of roses …..

136436 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to William Hand, 1, #1076 of 1680 🔗

You are just making that up. Thought about a career in politics?

136440 ▶▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Sam Vimes, #1077 of 1680 🔗

Trouble is I cannot lie without giving the game away.

136451 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to William Hand, 3, #1078 of 1680 🔗

It’s ok, Will. During ‘the emergency period’ you can talk unmitigated shite and get away with it. And you get to make your own rules!

136465 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to William Hand, 1, #1079 of 1680 🔗

No need to lie, just say something truthful that is totally unrelated to the topic at hand.

136476 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1080 of 1680 🔗

Aaahhh, the classic “That’s a very good question, now just let me waffle about our general policies long enough for you and the viewers to forget you asked it” defence. Timeless!

136449 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to William Hand, #1081 of 1680 🔗

Head, shoulders knees and toes!
But seriously no believer has actually asked that.

136437 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 4, #1082 of 1680 🔗

If masks work, then there is also no need to track n trace anyone – but yet now there is a new SI making it mandatory for pretty much everywhere (even village halls and the like) to take your details and they are to refuse you entry if they think the details you give are fake…

https://twitter.com/BigBrotherWatch/status/1306909468018475008

136491 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to DRW, 3, #1083 of 1680 🔗

If I put myself in the head of a mask/lockdown zealot, which I am loathe to do but for more than a few seconds, I think they believe that none of these measures work individually but when put together may prevent a few droplets from escaping our diseased orifices and getting near them. Every droplet counts so we must do everything to contain them in our wet, bacteria-ridden, disgusting masks and keep our distance for good measure.

136495 ▶▶ tonys, replying to DRW, 6, #1084 of 1680 🔗

I think the thought process is, they definitely work, but other people are ‘breaking the rules’ and it is their fault, if everyone was like me there would be no need for me to wet myself with fear every time I go outside, some people have them under their noses and they don’t even bother to skip out of the way when they pass me in the street so we need another lockdown, possibly backed by the Army shooting people and then we’ll be safe for ever and ever.

136511 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to tonys, 3, #1085 of 1680 🔗

So why can’t we just have the real normal, mass events and all, with muzzles then? The questions people should be asking but aren’t.

136519 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, #1086 of 1680 🔗

Exactly!

137100 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to tonys, #1087 of 1680 🔗

We’ll be safe temporarily… probably not for ever and ever…not sure of the exact stats but it used to be that approx. 1 person per week died in the act of getting in or out of bed. Around 7-8 people per year die putting on or taking off trousers or leggings. one way, or the other, it’s gonna get you, gonna get you get you get you get you…!

136431 William Hand, 8, #1088 of 1680 🔗

Will the virus have to put its clock back in October. I need to know, NOW!!!!

136439 guy153, replying to guy153, 3, #1089 of 1680 🔗

ONS Covid-19 Infection Survey has been updated. The last four weeks have been 0.05%, 0.05%, 0.07%, 0.11% up to September 10th. Infection rates are going up a bit, not entirely unexpectedly as we go into autumn but I don’t think it’s any cause for alarm.

136444 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to guy153, 7, #1090 of 1680 🔗

Positive PCRs are going up, there is a difference.

136555 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to William Hand, 4, #1091 of 1680 🔗

This is the ONS Covid-19 survey which has much better methodology. Their sampling is random and their specificity is likely better than 99.95% as they consistently get 60% asymptomatic (and not more) down to prevalence as low as 0.05%. It’s the best data we have. I expect the government will soon abolish the ONS as they are far too competent.

136443 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 6, #1092 of 1680 🔗

Sad to report wholesale compliance with the T&T stuff today. I think someone may have mentioned this before but, as a lot of people seem to find this all uproariously funny, I think this represents the most exciting thing that has happened to most of them in their lifetime.

136450 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to kh1485, 9, #1093 of 1680 🔗

I alsways give a phone number that will never get answered as it is a Pay as you Go SIM on a broken phone. The SIM was bought using a fake name and address a while back. I’m quite prepared for all the monitoring shite coming our way soon.

136529 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to William Hand, 4, #1094 of 1680 🔗

Me too. I’ve been using a number from a text I got advising that I needed to verify my PayPal account. I also make up a different name each time.

136461 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 6, #1096 of 1680 🔗

So far this week, I have been Simon Dolan and Brett Sinclair (I didn’t put ‘Lord’, I thought that was a bit showy). Rick H made a great comment the other day about it being no wonder those Nigerian Lottery chaps have made so much out of the GBP.

136469 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1097 of 1680 🔗

Brilliant. Thanks for the laugh, I really needed it today! Go on, put ‘Lord’ next time … (I won’t be able to get the theme tune out of my mind now!).

136513 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 2, #1098 of 1680 🔗

Almost worth a real phone no., so that when they ring, it’d be “Errm, your er, lordship, we were wondering…” Ha.

136541 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1099 of 1680 🔗

I laughed at that – one of my favourite programmes, and adore the theme tune. On holiday with my parents in the early 1970s in northern Italy, we did the requisite day out over the border to Monaco. Stood outside the palace, and none other than Roger Moore drove in (he was a friend of the family I believe). My mother nearly wet herself!

136553 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1100 of 1680 🔗

A true officer and gent RIP

136604 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Sam Vimes, #1101 of 1680 🔗

My pseudonym is Iam Negan for all you walking dead fans

137099 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Sam Vimes, #1102 of 1680 🔗

There was a brilliant story some years ago, about a guy who used to write letters, and/or fax orders & bookings, requests for tables in top restaurants, the best hotel rooms, using quite fancy elongated script, relatively closely spaced, in the name ‘Earl Essex’. Rocked up at the restaurant/hotel/whatever, usually to be greeted by a concierge/butler, “Oh my goodness today we welcome the Earl of Essex, welcome, Your Worship…” turns out he was just a regular guy. who changed his name to ‘Earl Essex’. Of course seeing as the restaurant, hotel, was already booked & ready, be rude not to use it… 🙂

136463 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to kh1485, 2, #1103 of 1680 🔗

If you’re adversely affected by this, whether as a customer, employee or business-owner, get in touch:

info @ bigbrotherwatch .org.uk

136472 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #1104 of 1680 🔗

Adversely affected in what way? If your business goes under due to lack of footfall presumably you can complain, or if you get refused entry for giving false details or not having the app – but to object on the grounds of violation of privacy is probably not allowed?

136473 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1105 of 1680 🔗

Thanks Offlands. It’s not appearing to affect trade but it is affecting me, this bovine compliance. Not one dodgy looking one and only a few people didn’t leave their details.

136559 ▶▶▶ Bobblybob, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1106 of 1680 🔗

The GDPR provides the following rights for individuals:

  1. The right to be informed
  2. The right of access
  3. The right to rectification
  4. The right to erasure
  5. The right to restrict processing
  6. The right to data portability
  7. The right to object
  8. Rights in relation to automated decision making and profiling.

Under data protection law, it is especially important that consent is freely given, meaning that people should be able to refuse or withdraw their consent without facing negative consequences, such as being denied access to your service.

Surely the SI can’t override GDPR?

136592 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bobblybob, 3, #1107 of 1680 🔗

I have been thinking the same thing. This all flies in the face of GDPR. Sadly there will undoubtedly be provisions buried in the legislation for data protection rights to be suspended at a time of “emergency”. At least we now know that GDPR isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. Same goes for all the human rights declarations. Null and void.

136611 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bobblybob, #1108 of 1680 🔗

You would have thought not…

136470 ▶▶ Julian, replying to kh1485, 3, #1109 of 1680 🔗

Yes they do seem to find it funny or exciting. I think that means they are highly dysfunctional, but it takes all sorts. Just resent it being imposed on me.

136474 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 2, #1110 of 1680 🔗

I would actually not be going out any more, unless I absolutely had to..

136496 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 2, #1111 of 1680 🔗

Me too. And they also hand it over, really proud of themselves for filling it in: “Ooh, I’ve done my form for you …”!

136531 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to kh1485, 4, #1112 of 1680 🔗

I honestly despair for humanity.

136550 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 4, #1113 of 1680 🔗

It’s strange as 6 months ago nobody would of done this or left a copy of their bank statement on your counter

136578 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, #1114 of 1680 🔗

I know. I mean, is there somebody in a bunker going “OK, lads, what other liberties can we take with the British people, is there nothing they won’t do for the sake of ‘safety'”

136567 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 1, #1115 of 1680 🔗

Give them a gold star or perhaps a good punch,no,better stick with the gold star.

136479 ▶▶ Liam, replying to kh1485, 4, #1116 of 1680 🔗

That thought hadn’t occurred to me but I think you might be on to something there. Some people are living a melodrama in their heads.

136608 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Liam, 2, #1117 of 1680 🔗

They are waiting for the big reveal..and this years winner of covid 19 is…. drum roll…..Mrs Janet Smith from Portsmouth. On walks Davina McCall with the trophy….

136457 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 2, #1118 of 1680 🔗

I wrote to my MP a week ago and haven’t had a response. Is this normal? The e-mail was completely respectful and measured.

136468 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mattghg, 4, #1119 of 1680 🔗

Out of a dozen or so I have sent, I have received only a few replies. One or two of the replies seemed vaguely personal, others were probably written by an assistant. Mainly boilerplate stuff.

136475 ▶▶ tonys, replying to mattghg, 2, #1120 of 1680 🔗

They should certainly reply, it is not as if it’s just them, they employ office staff, might be worth a call to the constituency office to check if they have a backlog.

136490 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mattghg, 1, #1121 of 1680 🔗

Normal.

Only received one from all 7 or so e-mails and letters I’ve sent or copied him on and that said “ Many thanks for your recent correspondence – please do not hesitate to contact me again on any issue where you feel I may be of assistance.”



136505 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to mattghg, 2, #1122 of 1680 🔗

It’s normal, I email my MP and he always sends a letter back. Normally about 3 weeks later.

136508 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to mattghg, #1123 of 1680 🔗

Had wishy washy replies from a wet blanket. Still waiting FOI answer to request for expense breakdown for T&T app sent back in Aug.

Got this reply on 24th:

Our ref: DE-1247453

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your correspondence about coronavirus (COVID-19).
We are currently focusing our resources on the COVID-19 response.

As we are experiencing extremely high volumes of enquiries, we regret that we are not currently able to provide an individualised response to every email we receive from the public. The Government has launched a COVID-19 ‘hub’, which can be found at http://www.gov.uk/coronavirus and has the answers to many questions and the latest information on COVID-19. We are, however, continuing to record all the correspondence that we receive so that we are able to continue to track the main issues being raised with the Department by the public.

I am sorry that this falls short of the service we strive to offer, but the unprecedented situation we find ourselves in has required a temporary change in approach to handling correspondence.

If you consider your situation to be of a sensitive or urgent nature that requires a bespoke response, please submit your email again using ‘ Sensitive ’ and quote the case reference in the subject line. We will, if deemed appropriate, aim to send a response to the majority of such correspondence within 18 working days.

Yours sincerely,

Daniel Belmore
Ministerial Correspondence and Public Enquiries
Department of Health and Social Care

Basically rejecting an FOI request. I have followed up but no reply as yet.

136510 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mattghg, 1, #1124 of 1680 🔗

You might wish to seek out the communication policy for tgese slow or non replies. Local councils suggest 5 days for initial reply and 10 days for a full response. Scottish gathering of **** in suits otherwise known as the Scottish Government give themselves one month -20 working days to reply. Covid excuses abound for all delays. What the comms policy is of the political parties these people represent may be worth looking into. The Information Commisioners office can help guide you. The Scottist Info commisioner has proved very helpful in understanding process if a little toothless in actual ability, they have legally held powers.

136526 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to mattghg, 1, #1125 of 1680 🔗

Yes, they have 4 weeks to reply.

136548 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to mattghg, 1, #1126 of 1680 🔗

The cunts on £250k with his fiddled expenses don’t think he’s going to rock the boat.

136564 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to mattghg, 1, #1127 of 1680 🔗

I had to print my emails and send them by registered post demanding a response before I got one.

137899 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to mattghg, #1128 of 1680 🔗

Similarly. Not even an acknowledgement. And timeliness matters, what with the Act renewal coming up — and an escalation of SIs plus a sneaky tendency to slightly reword previous regulations so as to fill in gaps (face covering exemptions for example).

Perhaps a more public, visible form of communication might be in order. Ultimately, we might need to campaign for their attention and action in the manner of a local election campaign holding an incumbent opposition candidate to account for their actions (or lack thereof).

136460 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1129 of 1680 🔗

Liberty Petition:

I DEMAND REPEAL OF THE CORONAVIRUS ACT
Times of crisis are ripe for the watering down of human rights. When the pandemic hit, the Government introduced overbearing legislation – the Coronavirus Act – which gives the state extraordinary powers to restrict our civil liberties. We must demand our rights are safeguarded, starting with the repeal of the Coronavirus Act.
The Coronavirus Act introduced sweeping powers that were the greatest limitation on liberty in a generation.

Under the Coronavirus Act 2020:
– The police have been given broad new powers to detain anyone who could be infectious. But the Crown Prosecution Service has said that every single charge made under the Act has been wrong
– Safeguards for disabled people, people with mental health issues and those who rely on social care have been stripped away just when people were most at risk
– Dangerous restrictions on the right to protest have been created
– Borders can be closed and some elections suspended
The Coronavirus Act has failed to uphold people’s rights while leaving the most marginalised worst affected.

These emergency measures are still in force and Parliament can choose to renew them indefinitely.

Sign here:
https://liberty.e-activist.com/page/63721/petition/1?ea.url.id=4911167

136554 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Sarigan, #1130 of 1680 🔗

Signed

136616 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1131 of 1680 🔗

I’ve signed it however some of the new legislation possibly masks went through under the Public Health Act so whilst it may get rid of the coronavirus act some of the restrictions might still be there.

136506 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sarigan, #1133 of 1680 🔗

They should play it at all the illegal raves.brilliant

136500 saint pierre, 4, #1135 of 1680 🔗
136509 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1136 of 1680 🔗

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/does-the-resurgence-of-covid-19-in-spain-exhibit-exponential-growth/
Very interesting data from Spain analysed by Heneghan’s group just published. The exponential growth in July has stopped but contrary to the UK, deaths seem to follow the increase of cases.

136518 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1137 of 1680 🔗

Is this due to their lockdown?
Or from mask-wearing? How do we know that the deaths are of the same people who tested positive?

136532 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Carrie, 12, #1138 of 1680 🔗

Who cares? Spain had the longest and strictest lockdown in Europe and is going to end up with the highest death rate.

136565 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to swedenborg, -6, #1139 of 1680 🔗

UK uptick has only just started. There is a definite increase in hospital admissions.

Check numbers in a fortnight.

136571 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mayo, 4, #1140 of 1680 🔗

Uptick in Spain is already on the decline again though. More of a ripple than a wave?

136574 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1141 of 1680 🔗

Do you have a data for that?

136607 ▶▶▶▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to hotrod, 1, #1142 of 1680 🔗

Did you bother reading the link above and looking at the graph?

136573 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 5, #1143 of 1680 🔗

I think one has to be very careful about how you define a hospital admission in this context. Were they admitted for something else and routinely tested for the virus? In which case, it really depends if the “infection” is active and they are ill with covid, as to whether you count it as a hospital admission for/with covid. And you would need to compare this with similar statistics, and then look at the critical care usage, from March/April/May.

136579 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Julian, 2, #1144 of 1680 🔗

Correct. Every number needs scrutinising properly now as they have been weaponised.

136595 ▶▶▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Achilles, 1, #1145 of 1680 🔗

PHE Pillar 2 figures seem to show 8 to 9 percent positivity in 85 plus age group. Obvious false positives. They will be people who have recovered….this might be feeding the death figures when they finally pass away with something else. Just a thought.

136618 ▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Achilles, #1146 of 1680 🔗
136657 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Mayo, 3, #1147 of 1680 🔗

Fuck off

136983 ▶▶▶▶ saint pierre, replying to Jaguarpig, #1148 of 1680 🔗

Well said sir.

136662 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to Mayo, 1, #1149 of 1680 🔗

‘Check numbers in a fortnight’ – hmmm…. I seem to vaguely recollect hearing something similar before.

136691 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Mayo, #1150 of 1680 🔗

Yes increases for sure. But very modest. We have not yet reached herd immunity, except possibly in parts of London.

136801 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to William Hand, #1151 of 1680 🔗

Yep typical dodgy graph making yet again, making it look scary and huge increases, whereas if you zoom out to put in context with the beginning, it is a fraction of the size. Add to that the increase in testing now compared to then, it simply pales into insignificance.

136673 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1153 of 1680 🔗

Reading this article, the situation does look exactly what you’d expect if you released lockdown with a significant number of the population still uninfected – an initially slow but building number of cases, eventually reaching a peak and starting to decline as the population approaches the immunity that the lockdown delayed. That definitely looks like the trend, and another week or two of data (I know that’s borrowing from the enemy’s phrasebook!) ought to make it undeniable.

I’m really hoping that our later, less severe, lockdown in March will mean that far less of the UK population is uninfected/susceptible compared to Spain. Either way the death numbers aren’t likely to be significant by any sane measure, but things are getting less sane by the day!

136697 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Drawde927, 6, #1154 of 1680 🔗

Interesting to see that countries with harsh lockdowns (and mask fanatics) like Spain, France and Belgium seem to have a sharp rise (France,Spain 10000 level) and countries with less harsher lockdown like Germany and Netherlands has an increase but lower perhaps more due to herd immunity. Many countries in Europe like Czechia and Greece have now worse cases than in March April but less deaths. Interesting to see where the UK figures will end something in between Spain France and Germany. Our moronic PM will most likely go for a second lockdown but how can he avoid a third lockdown as everything will repeat itself after opening up after the second lockdown? Second lockdown is a proof that the first lockdown was a mistake. They have all painted themselves in a corner and cannot come out.

136525 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #1155 of 1680 🔗

according to the DM “Mothballed Nightingale hospital is told to be ready to reopen in 48 hours”. Since they are unlikely to be needing this for the original reason, will it be repurposed as a detention centre for lockdown sceptics?

136560 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Charlie Blue, 9, #1156 of 1680 🔗

3 meals a day, no tv licence – could be my retirement plan sorted!! 🙂

136825 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Charlie Blue, #1157 of 1680 🔗

So the NHS staff are all going to be standing around with nothing to do again….

136535 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 15, #1158 of 1680 🔗

News that Van Morrison May lose freedom of city status because he’s dared to challenge established opinion on Co Vid. What happened to the time when musicians were the voice of protest?

136551 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Telpin, 5, #1159 of 1680 🔗

The loss of our liberty is all very sad, but for those of us who enjoy laughs the covid garbage is a gift that keeps on giving.

I’m going to miss it all when it’s done.

136556 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to TJN, 5, #1160 of 1680 🔗

That’s a great way of looking at it. Things are so absurd that it is sometimes very difficult to take it seriously. Such is my addiction to the daily doses of Covid research/agony that if I had the chance to rewind to an alternative timeline and live 2020 in the old normal, I cannot be certain that I would choose to do so. This is too bloody fascinating. I can’t take my eyes off it.

136557 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Richard O, 2, #1161 of 1680 🔗

Same here – what I also find fascinating is why everyone on the bleedin’ planet isn’t the same! What’s happening is terrible beyond words (to put it lightly) but extraordinary.

136563 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Kath Andrews, 3, #1162 of 1680 🔗

Things are so intense that I’m getting by with 3-4 hours sleep no problem. Some days I’ve missed night altogether and done 48 hours straight. Never known energy levels like it.

136575 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard O, 3, #1163 of 1680 🔗

I actually genuinely do enjoy the laugh – every day reveals new gems of insanity, which you can only laugh at.

136590 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to TJN, 3, #1164 of 1680 🔗

If we don’t laugh, we’ll cry! Finding humour in horrible situations is a well-known coping strategy.

136629 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1165 of 1680 🔗

With me I don’t think it’s a coping strategy – I’ve always found the absurd and ridiculous funny. Maybe it’s innate misantrophy or something.

Even so, some of the stuff on Toby’s posts (Will’s are more serious) and in the comments here have been hilarious.

I must admit, I find Hanock funny too, although Johnson I just detest, same as anyone from the WHO.

I will admit though that sometimes I do have a sense of humour loss, like in a certain high street building society a little while ago, which I won’t go into here (another firm for the TJN household shit list), or when I read some of the care home stuff, or see muzzled children.

136819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to TJN, 2, #1166 of 1680 🔗

I don’t find Hancock even vaguely amusing, after what hes done to the country. He should be strung up by his balls.

136854 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lms23, 2, #1167 of 1680 🔗

In all seriousness, I think he should be the subject of a criminal investigation when all this is done.

136642 ▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Richard O, 4, #1168 of 1680 🔗

Absolutely.

We are witnessing the beginnings of something which will either be 1000 times worse than the fall of Rome (and thus of the darkest Dark Age in human history) or 1000 times more glorious than the Renaissance (and thus of the establishment of a veritable Golden Age.)

Which one it turns out to be, depends on the ordinary citizens of the world, who will either awaken to the unspeakably corrupt global conspiracy against us (and yes, it IS a conspiracy; we are WAY beyond “theory” now, and invoking Hanlon’s Law is simply grasping at straws) or whether the majority continue munching the grass as the slaughterhouse is warmed up.

In case readers are not aware of the game plan of our globalist Overlords, it’s called Agenda 2030. Researcher Graeme Norbury gives an excellent outline of it here; the relevant bit starts around 30 minutes in:

https://youtu.be/j33O-USISz0

Mrs Knoll and I have stopped watching ordinary TV. Crime dramas and Bond movies are boring as hell compared to what’s happening in the real world right now!

136720 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Richard O, 1, #1169 of 1680 🔗

The current pre-election situation in the US is very much like our CV19 one. Except ours is without the violence and gun deaths, or the (arson) wildfires.

136621 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, 1, #1170 of 1680 🔗

Oh no, TJN, you’re not allowed to laugh!

We were laughing at the new JP Sears video this morning and were given a right sucking-lemons look by our upstairs business neighbours. Already been given ‘advice’ by the BID chairwoman about our less than serious COVID signage!

136800 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 1, #1171 of 1680 🔗

Well my prediction is that your upstairs business partners won’t be in business much longer, while you will thrive.

136617 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Telpin, 4, #1172 of 1680 🔗

Music has always been the bed of dissent and counter culture. Thing back to punk, acid house, etc. Convenient that all gigs, festivals etc. are pretty much finished.

136620 ▶▶▶ john, replying to leggy, 2, #1173 of 1680 🔗

Music and comedy were always the two biggest things that were able to change the way society thinks and acts – sadly no more as the age of free speech is long gone….

136663 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to leggy, #1174 of 1680 🔗

I now understand why punk music appealed so much in the 1970s. Definitely music to suit the mood of the times (for many people).
We could really do with a 2020 equivalent, sadly most of the musical “counterculture” is 100% behind this madness (see the reaction to Ian Brown and the Gallaghers). Would be interested to know of other artists/musicians (as well as Van Morrison obviously) in our camp…

136972 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Telpin, 1, #1175 of 1680 🔗
136542 Sam Vimes, 13, #1176 of 1680 🔗

Radio news nothing but doom. They are treating tests as if they were deaths. We are rapidly heading back to peak level panic, or at least the sheep are.

136543 Sue, replying to Sue, 9, #1177 of 1680 🔗

I’m not too much on the conspiracy theories spectrum but… I’ve just had my water bill statement from Bristol water in which they have an insert as follows:

Helping Hand. Could you carry water home if you needed to?
If you have a medical condition or disability, sign-up for priority services and we’ll deliver water directly to your door in an emergency.

First time I’ve ever seen this and fortunately/hopefully don’t need it.
Could be absolutely nothing BUT I find it rather uncanny and inappropriate timing and the mere suggestion that water supplies may not be available when turning on the tap is somewhat bizarre, unsettling and frankly a little scary.

Am i reading too much into this? Anyone else had this insert/seen similar?

(I’d add a photo but not obvious how to insert in comment box here so if anyone knows that would be useful – thanks)

136547 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Sue, 2, #1178 of 1680 🔗

That’s interesting. I’m in the same water area so I’ll look out for the literature.

136549 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sue, 18, #1179 of 1680 🔗

The gathering storm clouds are growing darker, on all fronts, every day. My gut feeling tells me we are facing an absolutely appalling winter ahead of us. But I have no fear. If this world is not for the likes of us, then so be it. I’d rather be dead than living in the dystopia that now seems inevitable.

136570 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Richard O, 12, #1180 of 1680 🔗

Sadly, that’s exactly how I feel. How anyone would want what we now have is beyond me. Feel like I am surrounded by compliant zombies, just giving up everything that is precious (or at least precious to me).

136799 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Richard O, 3, #1181 of 1680 🔗

Yes, I agree. I thought about stocking up on food again (still have some of my Brexit supplies – yes, I am a Remainer), but now I realise that if we are to starve, well, I was lucky enough to live through the 60s and 70s, and even the 80s and 90s weren’t that bad. Why struggle to get a few more years, especially if they involved living longer in this zombie apocalypse? No.

136580 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Sue, 4, #1182 of 1680 🔗

I think you can take this at face value – looking after the vulnerable if the water supply is cut off/burst mains etc. Does happen from time to time!

136839 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Steeve, 1, #1183 of 1680 🔗

yes i think/hope you’re right and can’t foresee how water could be an issue, though few things surprise me these days with this shitstorm. I think it’s incredibly bad wording and timing at a point where every media broadcast is spreading fear, doom and gloom. Their wording of ‘can you carry your water’ is in poor taste and gives the impression of living in a third world country, and bound to freak some of the older folks. All they needed to say if you’re vulnerable please let us know on our website, so we can assist if ever needed.

136861 ▶▶▶▶ Lucky, replying to Sue, #1184 of 1680 🔗

Yes. It’s horrible.

136614 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Sue, 1, #1185 of 1680 🔗

By coincidence, I purchased a water filtering device (good for 50,000 litres) today. I figured it’s better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Stocked up on water purification tablets too, even though my time with the British Army reminds me that they really are a last resort!

136654 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to leggy, #1186 of 1680 🔗

Yuk, but then again our tap water in Notts tastes as bad anyway

136622 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sue, 1, #1187 of 1680 🔗

That sounds rather scary…

136626 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Sue, 3, #1188 of 1680 🔗

The virus is spreading and we all breathe and drink tap water. Masks have stopped airbourne transmission so it must be in the tap water.

136634 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sue, 2, #1189 of 1680 🔗

My wife is disabled, qualifies for a blue badge.

This was told to me by Scottish Power – anyone who is disabled or caring for a disabled person l et your gas, electricity, water, council know and they can’t cut you off.

Also the electricity will supply a generator if the power is off for extended periods and the water company will arrange delivery for you if required.

Handy to know.

136647 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1190 of 1680 🔗

Thank you for this!

136963 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Sue, #1191 of 1680 🔗

Yep, it is a bit suspicious. Someone posted something similar about electricity too yesterday

137037 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Sue, #1192 of 1680 🔗

United Utilities have had something like this for many years. I signed up as I can’t carry heavy things. So far it has just led to being phoned if there is a disruption to the water supply.

136546 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 12, #1194 of 1680 🔗

I am trying to persuade my family not to take me out for a birthday meal next weekend, in Wales. I’ve checked out the pub (been there bfore in better times) and they want all orders placed by smartphone app and also the bills paid that way if possible. None of us own smartphones. I’ve explained that, but it’s fallen on deaf ears.
Nothing mentioned about T&T but unfortunately both husband and son are too damned law-abiding. They have said that if there is truly no virus around then I shouldnt be worried about the chances of being caught up in T&T, but I’m a sceptical old sod and also suffer from the X factor…that is, if something’s going to happen, it’ll definitely happen to me.

Item 2: a friend of ours in Somerset has told us that his children’s school has sent all the sixth form home, plus teachers, for two weeks because one sixth-former has a sniffy nose. The way it’s going, both pubs AND schools will be shut.

136641 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to thedarkhorse, 7, #1195 of 1680 🔗

Oh don’t miss a meal out if you would enjoy it! I don’t own a smartphone. I don’t ever try to find out in advance whether a restaurant will expect me to. I can neither access a menu that way, nor order that way, nor pay. I have not yet found a restaurant or cafe that will actually turn me away (and lord, have I been working at eating out. It is the only place in public, indoors, where I can see other people’s faces). They always have one or two paper menus tucked away in a drawer, will find some other way to take my order (generally a traditional technology known as ‘a waiter’) and are naturally keen to accept credit card payment in place of nothing at all.
Would your family allow you to offer your details for T&T? I have been politely supplying cafes etc with randomly generated fictional phone numbers since July. The trick is to keep the rhythm of your real number as you recite, but change one or two digits.
And don’t forget the little piece of stage business at the entrance when you are directed to sanitize your hands. A helpful expression and a ready dip towards the squirty bottle and nobody doubts that you are ritually purified.

136734 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Alethea, 1, #1196 of 1680 🔗

I do mostly the same, except my name is Neil Ferguson and I don’t let them heat gun me or do any hand sanitizing.

136748 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Tee Ell, 3, #1197 of 1680 🔗

I don’t do any hand sanitizing either. I ‘do some hand sanitizing.’ As the weeks pass, I am developing my motivation in the role. I have also tried various classic styles. Sometimes I ‘sanitize my hands’ as if gazing into the cherry orchard and yearning for St Petersburg. Sometimes it’s more of a gritty kitchen-sink feel: I am pregnant, though unmarried, and living at the boundaries of working-class feminine norms. Sometimes I am guilt-ridden, having recently participated in a regicide. What, will these hands ne’er come clean?

136814 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tee Ell, 1, #1198 of 1680 🔗

That’s the bit I am happy to do.
Having contracted various flu-like, bad cold-type viruses in the past from mingling with the Great Unwashed British Public, I tried to remember washing my hands thoroughly after going shopping, or travelling on London Underground or mainline trains. This was well before the Great Covid Plague of 2020.

Consider how much e.coli is found in bowls of peanuts in pubs….
Washing your hands before eating is a good idea, or being out and about, regardless of the current panic.

136849 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Alethea, #1199 of 1680 🔗

I use the number from spam texts so that no other poor sod potentially gets inconvenienced.

136583 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 3, #1200 of 1680 🔗

Request for stats from the experts please!

Two weeks ago new “cases” started to nudge 3000.

They are now around 4000 (rolling average around 3600).

Does anyone have the hospitalisation and death lines to hand, is their growth following the same line?

We were told two weeks ago to wait two weeks, well we have, more people have been tested but has there really been any change to the bottom two lines?

Wales today has a positivity of 0.9% btw.

136586 ▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to hotrod, #1201 of 1680 🔗
136596 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to PaulParanoia, #1202 of 1680 🔗

I know that but hoping someone has done that graph already!

136704 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to hotrod, #1203 of 1680 🔗

Do we know the cycle threshold max used in Wales, or the operational sensitivity/specificity of the tests?

136713 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to hotrod, 2, #1204 of 1680 🔗

Don’t know about anywhere else, but Norfolk And Norwich Hospital has announced the death of one man in his nineties with co-morbidities since June 9th, i.e. on 24th August.
That’s one CV19-related death in three months.

136603 muzzle, replying to muzzle, 4, #1205 of 1680 🔗

https://youtu.be/1NK6wukLFRo

A dragon from dragons den’s view.

136606 ▶▶ leggy, replying to muzzle, #1206 of 1680 🔗

Good watch that – agree with most of what she had to say.

136688 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to muzzle, 1, #1207 of 1680 🔗

Thanks. This is a MUST watch. Please forward to others.

What is it all about? Rich powerful backers putting politicians in place that will say and do everything they have to to ‘get the deal’. It is the PM, his right hand man the Master of PsyOps, cabinet full off yes men and yes women. All the old guard removed.

If you get people in a state of fear you can do anything with them. Enable the Government to introduce mass compliance by introducing small things and then build on it.

It was planned. The government is not interested in your health, only Command & Control, Covid is just a cover for the first part of the plan. A rushed plan so there is a small window of opportunity.

What to do:

*pattern interrupting

*saying No

*throw a spanner in the works of this machine

136605 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 15, #1208 of 1680 🔗

Time for a Covid Sceptic supergroup. Noel Gallagher, Van Morrison, Ian Brown….does anyone know if Denise Welch plays the drums? Lets make it happen.

136610 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Achilles, 4, #1209 of 1680 🔗

I thought I saw earlier that Jim Corr was a sceptic, doesn’t one of his sisters play the drums?

136612 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to kh1485, 2, #1210 of 1680 🔗

I said supergroup.

[just kidding]

136613 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Achilles, #1211 of 1680 🔗

Sorry, long day ….

137090 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to kh1485, 1, #1212 of 1680 🔗

I can still remember a TV interview – might have been Donna Air, long time ago, not sure – but whoever it was, she gets The Corrs on. pretty much straight away: “Hey, how did you guys meet?” 🙂

136658 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Achilles, 3, #1213 of 1680 🔗

Peter Hitchens as Bez

136732 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1214 of 1680 🔗

That would be ace.

136674 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Achilles, #1215 of 1680 🔗

I suspect she would give ’em a good try.

136959 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Achilles, #1216 of 1680 🔗

I am proud of Van Morrison for this stand. Good for him.

137032 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Achilles, #1217 of 1680 🔗

Why are they so scared of some songs if they believe their facts correct ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54194408

136623 nocheesegromit, 4, #1218 of 1680 🔗

Does anyone else receive the Simple Politics weekly email newsletter? Full of misleading statements e.g. about ‘cases’. Tempted to write back with evidence from Hennegan et al.

In other news the Ivor Cummins’ video is nearly at 1 million views on YouTube!!!

136632 Paul, replying to Paul, 6, #1219 of 1680 🔗

I know it’s not worth trying to fathom some people’s thought processes but waiting in the car park at Aldi I watched a woman leave the shop with a trolley of goods take her mask off the moment she exited the door,she walked to her car and put the shopping in the boot but she then put the mask back on to take the empty trolley back to the outside trolley store,eh ?,I don’t get the reasoning behind that.

136637 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Paul, 5, #1220 of 1680 🔗

The coronavirus disappears in supermarket car parks clearly. Just like it magically appears at 10pm and not a minute sooner in pubs.

136652 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1221 of 1680 🔗

cv19 is very smart.

As we know it can tell the time, read the date, measure distances, it knows if someone is at work with a large group of colleagues, or out with friends etc.

Maybe it knows to infect people who are pushing empty shopping trollies?

136650 ▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, 4, #1222 of 1680 🔗

In our tourist attraction we keep some toy crowns that people like to put on for fun photos.
Today a couple were taking turns posing for photos wearing the crown and a face mask.

136672 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to annie, 3, #1223 of 1680 🔗

I hope they disinfected the crown, before & after use. They are potentially killing the next person to pose in it.

136668 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Paul, 3, #1224 of 1680 🔗

Simple -after doing the shopping and paying , her facenappy was irritating her so off it came. But then she realised that the virus is everywhere and she had foolishly let her guard down. So to stay safe, back on it went.

136827 ▶▶ Lucky, replying to Paul, #1225 of 1680 🔗

Indeed. I went to the hairdresser today. She said she couldn’t take my coat so I put it over the back of the chair. She then put the ‘gown’ on me ( not plastic disposable thank god) and removed that from me when the hair was done. She then picked up my coat and held it up for me to put on before I left! Hehe.

136872 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Paul, 1, #1226 of 1680 🔗

Whenever I see something like this I feel like asking the person ‘what is your thought process and reasoning behind that?’ but then I think what a fucking twat he/she is and shake my head

136636 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 13, #1227 of 1680 🔗

Another good day’s work, Toby.

With something like Brexit, we got used to having conflicting experts on both sides, and to the idea that which side you were on is largely ideological.

But why would Aaronovitch choose to argue the law with former Supreme Court judge, Lord Sumption? Why would public health epidemiologists just ignore Nobel prize winning chemist, biophysicist and professor of structural biology at Stanford University, Michael Levitt?

I am not saying they should accept the arguments from authority. I am saying it is remarkable how they simply discount them. It is a terrible twitbook curse of modern journalism to act as though everything is just whatever you happen to believe.

136639 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to WhyNow, 7, #1228 of 1680 🔗

Twats/ paid bought twats

136763 ▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, 4, #1229 of 1680 🔗

An really vital aspect of all this – given that real science advances by constant testing and retesting of hypotheses – involving conflict and contradiction.

Which rather indicates that this shit-show cannot stand up in terms of real science. ‘Nuff said.

But in this propaganda war, it isn’t enough to be right.

136957 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to RickH, 2, #1230 of 1680 🔗

I admire those scientists who are arguing cogently against the government’s actions.

But reason will not stop the government from moving to a predetermined end.
Reason has nothing to do with any of this. The coronavirus is just a cover for the roll out of the reset.

Trying to make rational sense of what is happening and the “reasons” as presented, will just drive you to despair.

You need to look at this from a different perspective to make rational sense of it.
It is all about a global financial collapse, and the need to reset the economy whilst keeping the population quiet and obedient.

136640 Matt Mounsey, replying to Matt Mounsey, 26, #1231 of 1680 🔗

The UK government ends its consultation today on distributing an unlicensed vaccine and absolving the manufacturers of any immunity for it. I wrote the following in response:

“Please provide comments on the area(s) of changes proposed, below.”

Temporary authorisation of the supply of unlicensed products

There is zero proof of lethal a “second wave” of Covid-19. There is also no precedent for it among other coronaviruses. For all we know there is considerable population immunity due to cross immunity which would dramatically lower the herd immunity threshold. This would explain why deaths have been negligible for months. Summer influenza is currently causing multiple times the number of deaths, demonstrating that the lull in deaths is not due to non-pharmaceutical interventions.

Therefore there is likely far less need for an emergency Covid-19 vaccine than there is a need for an emergency seasonal flu vaccine. In fact, we now believe the Infection Fatality Rate for Covid-19 to be similar or slightly higher than seasonal flu and it may turn out to be much less if an undemonstrated second wave fails to materialise.

The dangers of an unlicensed product, which the population may be coerced or persuaded to take, are far greater. There simply hasn’t been enough data or enough trials to be certain of the product’s safety or efficacy. Whilst properly tested and licensed vaccines are a necessary public health measure, removing this licensing could lead to very grave public health consequences.

Furthermore, the coercion of the population to take an unlicensed product would represent the most grave and unethical overreach of government I’ve seen in my lifetime.

Finally, some of the techniques involved are so innovative, they represent a quantum leap in drug delivery, let alone in vaccine delivery. mRNA is a completely novel method of delivering drugs, which targets the pathway for gene expression. It allows pharmaceutical companies to evade the immune system and directly instruct the cells to create proteins. Surely, this cannot be fairly characterised as a vaccine? A vaccine is supposed to present an inactivated virus to the immune system in order to strengthen it, not to evade the immune system in order to control the body’s gene expression.

This could be characterised as subverting the licensing process to allow genetic engineering under the cover of a pandemic. There has been zero public debate about this. The fact that mRNA “vaccines” are still in contention to be a vaccine for Covid-19 is so egregious it beggars belief.

Civil liability and immunity

Referring to my answer for authorisation, there is no need for a vaccine as long as the virus is killing at near its current rate. Therefore, the argument for immunity is null and void.

An unlicensed product is bad enough, but who is to be sued if catastrophic side effects befall those that take the vaccine? Is the government to be sued? The taxpayer will sue itself? This is unacceptable.

Vaccine manufacturers stand to make a lot of money from the UK taxpayer. They must be willing to stand by their product when they release it and be sued for damages if it causes damage to health or wellbeing. A government that absolves these companies of this liability fails in its duty of care to the public.

Vaccine promotion

Promoting an unlicensed vaccine for which the liability for its effects has been absolved is utterly unacceptable and egregious. The UK government and the BBC have already engaged in the greatest infringement of civil liberties in peacetime.

If they now intend to scare, persuade or in any way coerce people to take an unlicensed vaccine for which no manufacturer will be held responsible, then they should dissolve the government or suffer the consequences from the people.

I finished by saying:

Even asking to sell an unlicensed vaccine which you will absolve the manufacturers of immunity for is so disgusting I’m embarrassed you would try. I feel ashamed to be British that my government would ask something like this.

You still have until midnight to let them know what you think.

136646 ▶▶ annie, replying to Matt Mounsey, 3, #1232 of 1680 🔗

Excellent.

136648 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Matt Mounsey, 5, #1233 of 1680 🔗

Supremely elegant. A wonderful contribution.

No one in the government will even read this of course. I just hope this is preserved somewhere for future historians to pore over as they wonder: “What on earth were they thinking back then?”.

136669 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, 4, #1234 of 1680 🔗

Historians, are they not cancelled? If not will they have any history which they are allowed to talk about?

136695 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Matt Mounsey, 1, #1235 of 1680 🔗

Very good answer. Far better and much more comprehensive than mine.

136708 ▶▶▶ Kathryn, replying to Lms23, 2, #1236 of 1680 🔗

Yes much better than my answers too. Though I reckon they will have got the point I’m dead against their untested vaccines all the same!

136644 annie, replying to annie, 7, #1237 of 1680 🔗

My quote of the day:

O passi graviora, dabit deus his quoque finem.

‘You who have suffered worse things, to these things also god will appoint an end.’

I think we have suffered worse (the first ld), but the gods, or God, or Fate, or we, will put an end to the present bollox. Have faith.

136684 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to annie, 17, #1238 of 1680 🔗

Actually I feel like the first lockdown, in retrospect (it felt shocking at the time), wasn’t as bad as what’s happening now. At the time, even though I had a horrible feeling that it was the start of something awful, there was still the hope that we would come out of it, people would look at the data and realise that it was an overreaction. That hope has totally gone now, the govt aren’t listening and are still acting like it’s the plague, and we’re headed for an interminable winter and spring of “cases”, erratic restrictions and social isolation to avert third, fourth and n th waves. They’ve told us that this will go on until the vaccine arrives, which may be never. I can’t begin to express how despondent I feel this week.

136711 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1239 of 1680 🔗

A very perceptive comment – a lot of the enlightened feel the same. I’m just hearing the Bullshit and Blather C’s ‘news’ painting a propaganda picture of Panic that bears no relation to reality.

136794 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #1240 of 1680 🔗

I agree entirely,initially it felt that the end of everything was approaching but I had genuine hopes that calmer and more enlightened minds in positions of power would eventually see things for what they actually were and take action to stop the madness.
But that never happened,like you I am now devoid of any hope,the media led government hysteria is out of control,I feel more frightened about what is going to happen than ever before.
I am seriously worried for my family,friends and all of you good people on this site,you are my friends also.
I can’t shake the feeling that something enormously bad is going to happen and very soon.
All of the fools that aided and abetted what increasingly looks like the deliberate destruction of civilisation may soon finally realise that they are going down just the same as all of us.

136906 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Paul, 7, #1241 of 1680 🔗

Yes, I have a feeling of total doom as well. I feel like they can do literally anything to us now and there’s nothing anyone can (or will) do to stop it. I just cannot believe how different the world is from this time last year, I feel like I’m grieving for my past life and to make things worse I have a 6-year-old having to grow up in whatever sh*tstorm is to come.

136797 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1242 of 1680 🔗

I have to admit that I’ve felt the same, i.e. theyre never going to let us out of this.
I guess its what they meant when all the politicians said there’d be no return back to normal.

136802 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1243 of 1680 🔗

Me too…. It would not feel as hopeless if *everyone* could see the danger, but that a large proportion of the public are gullible and brainwashed really scares me; we are in a minority which makes it much harder to rebel..

What will it take for them to wake up? People coming to their houses and dragging them away for forced injection? Have they not seen what is going on in Australia?

136857 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1244 of 1680 🔗

I could actually see the funny side of the first lockdown. Standing in a breadline, observing the panic buying frenzy, going into the Stalinist hellscape that was my local Morrisons (I only did this one once), all of these things could be looked upon with humour.

Now it’s just grotesque. I knew this would carry on into Spring (and posted such in July) but I didn’t expect the restrictions to be ramped back up by the third week of September. Nothing you can do at this point but just sit back and let the madness do its thing.

136907 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1245 of 1680 🔗

Thanks for all the comments, it’s nice to know that there are people who feel the same even though I wouldn’t wish this feeling on anyone. I feel like I’ve had enough of life this week, hopefully I can pull myself out of it.

136911 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1246 of 1680 🔗

I think I’ve had enough of life too if it’s any consolation.

136942 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to DRW, #1247 of 1680 🔗

No!! It is very exciting to live at times like this!
A fascinating challenge!

136706 ▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, 2, #1248 of 1680 🔗

I like that quote but another bit of the Aeneid springs to my mind:

… facilis descensus Averno,
noctes atque dies patet atri ianua Ditis;
sed revocare gradus superasque evadere ad auras,
hoc opus, hic labor est…

136949 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to guy153, #1249 of 1680 🔗

translation please

136981 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Kate, 2, #1250 of 1680 🔗

The descent to Hell is easy. Night and day the door to the black underworld lies open. But finding your way back out and escaping back up into the air above, this is the hard part. This is the struggle.

137169 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to guy153, 1, #1251 of 1680 🔗

thanks great

136645 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 20, #1252 of 1680 🔗

Working in a coffee shop really is no fun these days. Especially one with strict rules.
But the customers are just as bad sometimes. My first customer asked me if the tables outside are cleaned on a regular basis. I had to pull myself together so much to give her a polite answer. Then she proceeded to wipe down the metal armrests of the chairs and the table – just in case – with her own wipes. Guess what, neither her or her husband wore a face covering!
Another customer was constantly fiddling with his face covering and pulling the bit right in front of his mouth away whilst talking to me!
I am so fed up I just want to hide in my house. Most people in my town comply, about half run around the street with half their face covered, others constantly fiddle, wear it wrong, in the trouser pocket, probably hardly ever washed.
Another 6 months of this? No way. I hear so many people say: Oh, well, I do not like it, but you have to go along with it…
Sad, sad, sad

136651 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Silke David, 7, #1253 of 1680 🔗

My sympathies. And the irony of people masked and gloved up (to protect themselves from us) leaving their used napkins behind for us to clear up!

136665 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kh1485, 17, #1254 of 1680 🔗

It these masks are so lethal, why are we not seeing giant yellow medical waste bins on every street corner.

Because someone is telling us fibs.

136670 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dave #KBF, 18, #1255 of 1680 🔗

Indeed.

And, if this virus is so damned lethal, why is the government not issuing us all with masks that conform to some minimum safety standard? The idea that a bit of Cath Kidston cloth can save you from certain death is ludicrous.

136690 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to kh1485, 17, #1256 of 1680 🔗

Because it was about political lobbying and not about science.

I’ve worn a mask twice: once in the hair salon, as they’d be shut down if they didn’t comply with all the rules; second time was when I visited my mum in her nursing home.
That’s it. I refuse to wear one in a supermarket or shop. They weren’t necessary when the virus was rampant and hundreds were dying in hospitals (maybe of CV19, and maybe not), so why should they be necessary now, when the virus is barely noticeable, or would be if we weren’t being constantly bombarded with news about it.

My area of the country, i.e. Norfolk, is apparently an area of concern.
Since the 9th of June, precisely 1 person, a man in his nineties, has died with CV19.

http://www.nnuh.nhs.uk/news/2020/08/daily-announcement-covid-19-deaths/

One. Uno. Une. In over three months.

136696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, 6, #1257 of 1680 🔗

Because it was about political lobbying and not about science.”

Exactly! – or is now, without doubt.

136700 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 5, #1258 of 1680 🔗

Just noticed your comment about being in Norfolk.

You’d have to be as thick as ***** not to look at the ‘East of England’ graph of deaths on the CEBM site and not to die laughing at the thought of a Covid emergency in the area.

136699 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Lms23, 6, #1259 of 1680 🔗

I know it was. I refuse to wear one at all. Anywhere that insists upon it, I won’t go.

One reported death in our area too.

136698 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kh1485, 6, #1260 of 1680 🔗

For the young professional around town you need a designer print fabric, maybe something to reflect that we are going into autumn.

Will it protect me from the deadly virus, I neither know or care, but it matches my jacket.

136703 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1261 of 1680 🔗

Got one of those. Chap who is a local councillor and was very interested in our leaflets about COVID (surrepticiously took one and pocketed it). Has a natty, what looks like Liberty print job. Only comes into my shop because he can no longer get a freebie in Waitrose.

136792 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1262 of 1680 🔗

I’d prefer a mask with “This is bollux” written on it.

136776 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to kh1485, 3, #1263 of 1680 🔗

My manager put on our daily H&S briefing we need to WASH OUR HANDS IMMEDIATELY when clearing the papercups we now only serve if customers have not done so themselves, like the notices on our tables ask them to do. We have 1! sink behind the counter, which is mainly used by the barista. I do not know how we get away with it anyway, having only 1 sink and not one dedicated to handwashing. Well, as we are a large corporate run cafe, I guess they have to write something on the form.
Of course the papercups are full of the virus that the customers coughed into their hands whilst enjoying their coffee and we must not put ourselves at risk.
I was so close to walking out today.

136653 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Silke David, 12, #1264 of 1680 🔗

I know. What a disappointment our country has turned out to be. We’ve always tub-thumped about what an intelligent, independent and strong nation we are and now look at us. It’s shameful.

136692 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Achilles, 12, #1265 of 1680 🔗

A nation of scared, bed-wetting, ignorant numpties. I’m deeply ashamed. The current generation couldn’t fight their way out of a soggy paper bag.

136664 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Silke David, 1, #1266 of 1680 🔗

Stay strong, I know it is difficult.

136671 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Silke David, 9, #1267 of 1680 🔗

This is just it. Our public spaces have been desecrated to the point of being unusable. It will take a very long time to recover from this whatever happens. I can count on one hand the people I personally know who I have any respect for. The rest? Cowards, liars and traitors.

136681 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Richard O, 3, #1268 of 1680 🔗

Whilst waiting for the vet we went into our local park with the dog. Quite a few in the park and not a mask in sight. People behaving normally passing at normal distances. But then this is the edge of Dartmoor in Devon.

136862 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to William Hand, #1269 of 1680 🔗

Edge of Dartmoor – same here, SW side. Cox is my MP.

Full on muzzles in shops here though.

136723 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Richard O, 5, #1270 of 1680 🔗

One hand? You lucky dog! Everyone I know (excluding this group) is a coward, liar and traitor.

136678 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Silke David, 2, #1271 of 1680 🔗

And what you’ve described is precisely the reason why masks were not previously recommended for the public. I bet that most don’t wash them daily after use. And “going along with it” is how tyranny takes hold.

136694 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, 2, #1272 of 1680 🔗

Your last sentence hits the nail straight on the head : It goes straight to the heart of what Pastor Niemoller said in “First they came …..”

136656 leggy, replying to leggy, 11, #1273 of 1680 🔗

Theme tune suggestion:

Manic Street Preachers ‎– If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next
https://youtu.be/B7dBBCHYcZs

136659 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to leggy, 2, #1274 of 1680 🔗

Maybe email to lockdownsceptics@gmail.com so it doesn’t get missed.

136686 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to leggy, 1, #1275 of 1680 🔗

That one popped into my head the other night but I was sure someone must have suggested it by now!

136717 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to leggy, 4, #1276 of 1680 🔗

That was a quote from the Spanish civil war.
This stupidity could very well lead to a second English civil war.

136660 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 12, #1277 of 1680 🔗

The local MP I mentioned yesterday is really going for it now! Hurray! This is pure gold:

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/18731718.shipley-mp-hits-power-mad-health-ministers-tougher-lockdown-reintroduced/

136667 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Moomin, 4, #1278 of 1680 🔗

Wish there were more like him.

136675 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Moomin, 5, #1279 of 1680 🔗

Unfortunately, there appear to be a lot of bedwetters commenting below the article, disagreeing with him. They’re convinced there’s going to be a big second wave of severely ill people and a lot more bodies. There was one comment who referred to how the NHS struggled. I assume they missed all the synchronized dancing posted on TikTok….

136683 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Moomin, 6, #1280 of 1680 🔗

‘The country needs to get a grip of itself’

Well said Sir

136709 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cecil B, 1, #1281 of 1680 🔗

Yes around the government’s,advisers,experts necks.

136685 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Moomin, 13, #1282 of 1680 🔗

Yes – refreshing to see an MP who tells it as it is, with the obvious Einstein quotation that is so applicable.

My partner and I have been in different locations and settings today, but have both run into the profound ignorance about what is going on and what the facts actually are.

The degree of acquiescence and swallowing of the total fabrication that is around is frightening. I never so clearly understood the rise of the Third Reich as I do now.

136871 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to RickH, 8, #1283 of 1680 🔗

Hi RickH, interesting you should mention the Third Reich. Early on in this whole thing it suddenly dawned on me how the Germans fell for it all. I’ve always wondered how an intelligent, free thinking people could follow a nutcase like Hitler, but now I know, small steps, half truths, then becoming whole lies, the greater good, before you know it it’s too late. I think that’s one of the reasons why I’m so worried, we’re sleep walking (frogmarching!) into a health fascist nightmare!

136967 ▶▶ saint pierre, replying to Moomin, 2, #1284 of 1680 🔗

Phillip Davies – an actual Conservative. Who’d have thunk it?

136676 William Hand, replying to William Hand, 4, #1285 of 1680 🔗

Positive PCRs up. Deaths up. Hospital admissions up. But how many really have the disease COVID19?

136705 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to William Hand, 3, #1286 of 1680 🔗

It’s obvious that, every time you isolate, you create the conditions for an increase when you stop isolating. That’s true of measles, colds, flu and presumably Covid. Why it is a surprise is a mystery.

136739 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to William Hand, 1, #1287 of 1680 🔗

Also it has to be compared to the average for this time of the year.

136677 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #1288 of 1680 🔗

FFS, Iran apparently now heading for a third wave!

Also, this has come out of Handjob’s mouth today:

Health and Social Care Secretary Matt Hancock says “a national lockdown is the last line of defence”.

Instead, the government is considering England-wide restrictions to slow a surge in coronavirus cases.

A short period of tighter restrictions – lasting a few weeks – could be announced in the next week, BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg says.

So there will be much tighter England-wide restrictions for “a few weeks” (note, they’re not saying 2 weeks any more) but don’t worry, it’s not a lockdown because schools stay open and because we say it’s not?!

And of course they’ve had to give it an idiotic nursery-school name – “circuit-break” – presumably so they can reassure us once again that it’s not actually a lockdown.

136722 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1289 of 1680 🔗

Exactly the same trick as “3 weeks to flatten the curve”. With exactly the same result. People are begging for it. Extraordinary. The second lockdown will last until summer 2021 at the very least, and probably much longer.

136729 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Richard O, 5, #1290 of 1680 🔗

The second lock down will be the end. No one will be permitted to leave their homes without the vaccine, a health passport and a tracking chip.

136733 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to TyLean, 5, #1291 of 1680 🔗

Thats me done then.

136804 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to TyLean, 3, #1292 of 1680 🔗

Agreed. For us, that means permanent house arrest. Until the cleansing operations to remove undesirable elements permanently. Stanley Knife at the ready, they are not getting me alive.

136864 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, 5, #1293 of 1680 🔗

Indeed, me and the OH debated the merits of a suicide pact last night.

Fucking hell, what is the world coming to

136875 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 3, #1294 of 1680 🔗

Years ago a security guard at work told me he kept a stash of ketamine large enough to kill a horse should the worst come to the worst. I wish I was still in touch with the guy.

136882 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Richard O, #1295 of 1680 🔗

Sounds like my usual Friday night out 🤪 when we were allowed out

136889 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 3, #1296 of 1680 🔗

Same here! I used to fall asleep on the train and ended up all over Kent and East Sussex regularly. Slept rough many times. I am eternally grateful for having experienced what it was like to live in a state of relative freedom. History shows that this is the exception, not the rule.

137147 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, #1297 of 1680 🔗

Excellent, thought it was just me.

Once and only once fell to sleep on the train from Glasgow to Carlisle, woke up the train was just pulling out of Watford Junction. Whoops too much 80/-

Happy times.

136738 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, 6, #1298 of 1680 🔗

Economy, what economy.

A colleague at work yesterday “well if all these coffee shops and sandwich places have to close because no-one goes to offices anymore so what. We need to rethink everything.” or words to that effect. I think she has listened to Greta too much.

136740 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1299 of 1680 🔗

Does this work colleague realise that – gasp – many people are employed by the hospitality sector, and that – gasp – them losing their jobs is not a good thing??????!

136759 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1300 of 1680 🔗

I doubt it. They don’t see the bigger picture of how money actually moves around the economy and into their pockets.

136788 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1301 of 1680 🔗

So your colleague thinks hundreds of thousands unemployed people are good for society and the economy?

136682 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 15, #1302 of 1680 🔗

School Report:

Not good.

Clearly my colleagues are struggling with face coverings. I thought one member of staff was going to collapse, but she carried on surgical mask on face. The whites of peoples eyes looking sore and red.

Only seen one student all week without a mask.

This is all very sad, but as it is for the greater good it is OK.

Disheartened this week. Going to have many beers tonight.

136736 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1303 of 1680 🔗

Here you have to wear a mask to go into a shop. Obligatoire. I’m sure there must be a good few sceptics under the masks – I for one. But unlike in Britain where the maskless can still smile at each other, it is impossible to tell who is sceptical and who isn’t when everybody’s face is covered.

136741 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1304 of 1680 🔗

It will become apprarent that it is a case of “I sacrifice myself for you” where in the end everyone gets ill. But the voodoo is strong with the Covid

136745 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Dave #KBF, 14, #1305 of 1680 🔗

Callous as this is, I am afraid that the suffering of those who comply is the only way out of this. Masks are making people seriously ill, both physically and psychologically, and I suspect this was well understood by the policy makers when the decision was taken to mandate their usage.

People need to regain their self respect and not allow themselves to be violated like this. A simple “no” is all that it takes.

136766 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1306 of 1680 🔗

Search mask mouth, it gies into many of the conditions brought on by mask wearing

136689 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 15, #1307 of 1680 🔗

How does closing pubs at 10 do anything but hurt the publican ? Assuming there is a mad rush to get pissed before last orders between 10 & 11. The same thing will happen between 9 & 10 instead if they close earlier. Most pubs close at 11 still so what’s the point except we an empty measure (no pun intended). And restaurants closing at 10 also ? Why. Just cuts off any second sitting style bookings.

A no cost option is a simple message – anyone potentially vulnerable should take sensible measures. End of. I keep trying to figure out why they have done what they have done and I can’t get any logical answer.

136718 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Leemc23, 9, #1308 of 1680 🔗

I was in a well ordered spoons pub on Tuesday, most were over 40 obeying the rules.
Across the road in the market square s large group of men and girls were getting pissed on cheap cider making a row.no one challenged them
Yet if a pub so much ad fails to adhere to all the stupid rules they face closure.
You couldent make it up , I hate this government and they obviously hate me

136726 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Leemc23, 16, #1309 of 1680 🔗

I see a Scottish university (actually St Andrews) is asking students not to party. Principal Sally Mapstone wants them all to stay in their rooms from 7pm this evening. Please students, don’t put up with this.

136791 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jane in France, 6, #1310 of 1680 🔗

Were I a student I would move home and save on the accommodation money. Everything seems to be online anyway, all socialising seems to be forbidden – why go to the uni at all? Might as well study from home…

136811 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Leemc23, 4, #1311 of 1680 🔗

so will they close the HoC bars at 10pm also to set a good example??? I doubt it!!

136693 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 14, #1312 of 1680 🔗

Driving to work this morning JHB on TalkRADIO (around 8AM) was interviewing someone who mentioned that hospitals are again clearing out people (as they did from 16th March) in readiness for the second wave, which is to be expected in two weeks time.

Did I image the above, or did I miss-hear, or misinterpret what was said.

We are almost 6 months to the day since the emptying the wards into effect and the result was our oldies died. Looks like people are sleep walking into an home made wave.

136701 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1313 of 1680 🔗

It happens every year for flu. They just think they have a better excuse this year.

136715 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Dave #KBF, #1314 of 1680 🔗

I see they’re reopening the nightingale hospitals too, which were empty throughout April…

136730 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1315 of 1680 🔗

They could not find staff for them last time, where are the staff coming from this time?

136780 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1316 of 1680 🔗

It was Hancock, talking about how cases are “rising exponentially” again.
I’d like to see the data backing that up….

136784 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1317 of 1680 🔗

Worth a listen to her interview with Hancock today too.
He is appalling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEqm0ldWf-8

136710 PWL, 1, #1318 of 1680 🔗

Another day, another set of local restrictions.

How is your dedicated lockdown sceptical media doing leading you out of the coronohoax?
Covid-19 as a modern day variant of an antique technocratic control device

136714 Nic, replying to Nic, 10, #1319 of 1680 🔗

What on earth is going to happen to us ?2nd lockdown 3rd 4th this country is going to collapse in to massive civil unrest unless this madness stops.

136725 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Nic, 15, #1320 of 1680 🔗

Looking at the general populous they would rise up if Boris was to say masks are banned.

Generally the shrinks have done a mighty fine job.

136737 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1321 of 1680 🔗

I just saw a piece on BBC news feed 5.43pm written by Marianne who is apparently a disinformation specialist. It says what people should and shouldn’t read, take notice of and share!

I think along with the lockdown, us sceptics will be locked up… I fear for us!

137084 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1322 of 1680 🔗

Her takedown Van Morrison is disgraceful. It’s gutter level stuff.

136735 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nic, 3, #1323 of 1680 🔗

I wish it would, but i doubt it. Too many people have been brainwashed into believing all this. Otherwise intelligent people have been hoodwinked.

136746 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Nic, 3, #1324 of 1680 🔗

I suspect they will vote to continue the emergency powers with amendments for effective marshall law. And with the upcoming redundancies possibly hitting the start of Oct (the end will be the actual redundancy but the news will be at the start of the month) expect there to be a lot of disillusionment and blame.

And ten to one they blame sceptics

136755 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to mhcp, 4, #1325 of 1680 🔗

I reckon martial law has been baked into the cake from the very beginning. Not to quell massive civil unrest (there won’t be any) but to terrify the people even further. So predictable.

136785 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, 2, #1326 of 1680 🔗

They need a second wave to justify extending the emergency powers..

136773 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nic, 3, #1327 of 1680 🔗

Civil Unrest? Get real – there’s just an uncivil Big Sleep.

136716 Will, replying to Will, #1328 of 1680 🔗

Has anyone seen a full breakdown of the ONS survey with testing numbers and positive tests therein, please?

136787 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Will, #1329 of 1680 🔗

https://twitter.com/AlistairHaimes/status/1307005856572207104

Alistair Hames has the latest updated figures

136719 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1330 of 1680 🔗

SpectatorTV on YouTube have just uploaded a video of Anders Tegnell being interviewed by Andrew Neil.

136855 ▶▶ anon, replying to nocheesegromit, #1331 of 1680 🔗

happen to have a link ?

136724 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 13, #1332 of 1680 🔗

Boris now says he can now see a second wave coming. Hasn’t he been saying this for weeks now?
I do hope he and Hancock watched Carl Heneghan talking to the Science and Technology Committee yesterday. They both might have learned something.

136727 ▶▶ anon, replying to Margaret, 10, #1333 of 1680 🔗

alexander is a corrupt lying traitor

136731 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to anon, 3, #1334 of 1680 🔗

Yup. Can’t disagree with that assessment.

136728 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Margaret, 7, #1335 of 1680 🔗

I would suggest Boris is looking in a rear-view mirror if he thinks he can see a second wave coming.

136743 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Margaret, 11, #1336 of 1680 🔗

I think he first said it back in June or early July.

It’s always “in 2 weeks”

  • when the pubs reopened
  • when these choose reopened
  • when restaurants reopened
  • when offices reopened
  • and everything else it was always “next wave in 2 weeks”.

Also repeated worldwide everytime something opened up.

Getting monotonous and obvious now for those that want to see.

136751 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1337 of 1680 🔗

Don’t forget the Bournemouth beaches!

136820 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1338 of 1680 🔗

The beaches were busy for many weeks here. At the peak there were 20 people who died in Dorset.

136810 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1339 of 1680 🔗

Yes, it’s always going to happen in the next two weeks. It’s like the sign in the pub saying ‘free drinks tomorrow’

136750 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Margaret, 4, #1340 of 1680 🔗

I doubt very much they would watch it. They might get briefed if someone in their teams think it is a threat to the narrative but confirmation bias wouldn’t allow them to take it into consideration. I remain hopeful (no choice, really) but I just can’t see them backing off now.

136778 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 3, #1341 of 1680 🔗

I’m hopeful suddenly. Given Mr Toad’s only skill is in telling complete porky pies – there is no chance of a second wave 🙂

136742 tonys, replying to tonys, 14, #1342 of 1680 🔗

You have to hand it to the bbc they know how to generate fear, they are doing a hell of a job tonight, it is evil beyond anything I could imagine six months ago to be sure, but credit where it’s due.

136749 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to tonys, 8, #1343 of 1680 🔗

I see they’ve brought out their big ‘BREAKING NEWS’ banner for the announcement that we are facing a ‘sEcOnD wAvE’. They’re as bad as the DM at this point.

136744 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 8, #1344 of 1680 🔗

Finally! Laworfiction is back with another article on the mental health impacts of restrictions and how the law is specifically written to allow exemption for them for a wide range of reasons. On the off chance that people are actually questioned by a “relevant person”, many will be able to apply the broad brush of suffering mental lows from being isolated/restricted, and if they don’t buy it and still wish to make life difficult, see them in court on 3-5 years for an easy win!

https://www.laworfiction.com/2020/09/low-mood-a-reasonable-excuse-to-ignore-coronavirus-restrictions/

136758 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Youth_Unheard, 14, #1345 of 1680 🔗

I’m surprised Law of Fiction hasn’t mentioned compelled speech or hate speech. Having to wear a mask probably goes against a lot of people’s fundamental principles. It certainly makes a mockery of everything I stand for and believe in i.e. rational though, the pursuit of science, scientific method and ethics, accountability and responsibility.

The way that cursory evidence was extrapolated to be applied to society as a whole would be criminal in my field of work. Especially considering the flu has carried on thriving and circulating irrespective of mask wearing.

Being forced to wear a mask is like being forced to pray in a religion not of your choosing, on pain of punishment.

How that does not cause anxiety and stress? Well tell you what, go ask Thomas Moore

136753 Awkward Git, 6, #1346 of 1680 🔗

From the Intelligence UK website:

Our open letter of today to the Parliamentary Commisioners for Standards
The regulators are failing to regulate, the standards are not being maintained, the ones at the top must be held to account…
NOTICE OF PROSECUTION — KATHRYN STONE OBE You, Ms Stone OBE are supposed to be the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner responsible for regulating standards.
It appears that you have outright failed in both of your roles, the Parliamentary Standards role and that of your role in the Bar Standards Board.
The standards are far departed in the UK, I guess they “went out of the window”, along with the rule of law. Trying to get any accountability from you is like trying to get blood out of a stone (excuse the pun), but it is actually very true.
I made it expressly clear that there is obvious malfeasance and dishonesty originating from the BSB who seek to, in essence, pervert the course of justice to assist criminals disguised as barristers in evading prosecution. You read all of the emails and failed to respond, giving the stonewalling treatment, contravening the 7 principles of public life that you are supposed to be advocating.  The regulators are advocating criminality and aiding and abetting fraud on a widespread basis, failing in their statutory duty to enforce the standards.
What is the point in a regulator that does not regulate?
What is the point in having standards that are not enforced or adhered to?
What is the purpose of the rule of law when the law is only applied selectively and does not apply to common purpose members of the criminal racketeering enterprise within our public authorities?
What about the Nolan Principles that apply equally to you as they do the abusive dishonest cowardly civil servants within those authorities themselves?
Perhaps you can answer those questions, by return.

Please note, that all of this is being laid at the International Criminal Court

 wherein the corrupt establishment and many of its key officers have been engaging in a criminal racketeering enterprise in abuse of the public’s trust, using the courts as the means to achieve injustice and gross human rights violations.
The UK’s courts and police are all compromised and are incapable of administrating justice fairly or impartially. Those responsible shall be brought to justice in the court of competent jurisdiction, all of them.
We recently produced an article about it, see our website: The UK establishment are guilty of human rights abuse on a massive scale You should read it carefully before you answer my email. If I do not have answers from you by return, I shall hold you personally to account for this criminal abuse with the rest of the dishonest cowards of central government and the establishment.
This outright corruption has been going on wholesale for far too long. The perpetrators have grown complacent and they have played games with the wrong parties this time, it will be brought to an abrupt end, in the interests of justice, in the public interest and for the good of our society and our future generations.
Those responsible shall be made an example of, as a warning to others that may consider trying to follow in their footsteps in the future.  The contents of this email, (notice) shall be made public knowledge, in the public interest and in the interests of justice.
It is time for the selflessness, integrity, honesty, objectivity, accountability, openness and leadership that you purport to advocate but actually do not.  What a bunch of total and utter hypocrites.
I do hope this makes the position clear and I do hope that you will respond to this email, forthwith, because ignoring is only aggravating the offences.
Yours faithfully,

P. Millinder
Intelligence UK

http://www.intelligenceuk.com/newsx10.html

http://www.intelligenceuk.com/newsx7.html

136754 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #1347 of 1680 🔗

Lockdown 2 🇬🇧 BREATHTAKING NEW FACTS – Undeniable – Please SHARE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py9l7e4dS9M

136756 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 18, #1348 of 1680 🔗

We have enemies now, that are no different to 1939 to 1945

Churchill decided to make a stand

“If this long island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground.”

We have to stand and fight, better to die than go on like this

136764 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cecil B, 5, #1349 of 1680 🔗

Replace the word “fight” with “comply” in his great 1940 speech to get a picture of where we are now.

136757 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 11, #1350 of 1680 🔗

Had this email today from a cleaning products company I have bought from before:

“A SECOND WAVE IS COMING”

That’s the latest that is on everybody’s minds. Will there be a second wave? Are you prepared for a second wave if there will be one?

It’s been a busy few months, re-opening, welcoming customers back to your premises again, and it’s time to re-stock your cleaning, janitorial and COVID-friendly products for the winter season.

Is it just me, or is this in really, really bad taste, for sceptics and zealots alike?

136761 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #1351 of 1680 🔗

When is a second wave not a second wave? When it’s the second wave that isn’t, that’s when.

GAME OVER.

136762 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #1352 of 1680 🔗

We’ll find out in 2-3 weeks.

If it doesn’t happen the sheeple won’t even remember all the pre-nothing hype same a most of them cannot remember it was initially a lockdown for 3 weeks.

The MSM won’t say anything either.

136796 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1353 of 1680 🔗

It was here at the end of July. Boris said so. So surely that was wrong or this is a third wave!

136760 Paul, replying to Paul, 20, #1354 of 1680 🔗

I’ve just made the mistake of tuning a tv whilst all the evening propaganda (called news at one time) programmes are on.Flicking between various channels the words that stood out most were,new normal,spreading rapidly,large rise in cases,preventing the spread,socially distanced sport and of course the main favourite ,lockdown.
They was also a bizarre piece about a music venue with milk crates for antisocial distancing or something,christ knows what though,the prat was talking from behind a scarf

I started off today determined to be just a little,tiny,weeny bit optimistic but I am now feeling as bad as I do towards the end of every day.
Is it just me or do the media put the propaganda into overdrive every Friday,just to make our weekends even worse ?.

136908 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Paul, 7, #1355 of 1680 🔗

Don’t watch it

137006 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bella, 1, #1356 of 1680 🔗

I don’t,I was tuning it in for someone else,it seemed every channel I checked was going full pelt on the fear propaganda at the same time,some people seem to sit glued to this crap all day long.

136767 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 41, #1357 of 1680 🔗

My compliance for the second lockdown will be the same as the first. Zero. I’ll carry on as normal. I’ll go where I want and see who I want when I want.

The idiots who want a second lockdown and who will strictly adhere to it, can enjoy being miserable stuck indoors, panicking, watching the news and going on social media all day. Wasting their lives and making themselves ill, all for no reason.

136770 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Hubes, 17, #1358 of 1680 🔗

If the places you go are shut, if you are physically impeded from seeing who you want, what then? Somebody needs to kill these fuckers, now.

Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

136795 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Sam Vimes, 25, #1359 of 1680 🔗

Even thinking the worst they couldn’t close all roads because people would still need to travel to work and checking everybody would be too time consuming, plus there are loads of back routes to drive anywhere, so you can always drive to see whoever you want. The legislation also allows you to see people for medical reasons or to provide emergency assistance so you can always legally visit whoever you want.

There are loads of places to go outdoors that could never be policed and policing indoors is impossible.

I can’t believe I’m writing stuff like that. What the fuck kind of world are we living in.

136809 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Hubes, 6, #1360 of 1680 🔗

Totally know what to mean about the “I can take believe I’m writing stuff like that..”

137098 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Hubes, #1361 of 1680 🔗

I know. Hard to believe we actually live here, now.

136803 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Hubes, 4, #1362 of 1680 🔗

Me to balls th them,

136930 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Hubes, #1363 of 1680 🔗

The problem is that there are no pubs, cafes, restaurants or even loos open. So very limiting in what you can do.

136769 Will, replying to Will, 24, #1364 of 1680 🔗

Hancock lying today about what a false positive actually is is the absolute final straw. The government cannot even be bothered to hide the lies anymore. They make Goebbels look like Nelson Mandela.

136793 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Will, 1, #1365 of 1680 🔗

yep

136807 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Will, 7, #1366 of 1680 🔗

Has he ever said anything that wasn’t a lie?

136822 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Will, 5, #1367 of 1680 🔗

You can tell he’s lying ‘cos his mouth is moving!

136829 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Will, 3, #1368 of 1680 🔗

Doesn’t need to bother does he? Always a free pass from the MSM.

136771 Sam Vimes, 29, #1369 of 1680 🔗

Tonight, I’m gonna party like it’s 1939.

136772 Will, replying to Will, 32, #1370 of 1680 🔗

What an absolute disgrace of a country we have become. Pathetic beyond any measure.

136805 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Will, 18, #1371 of 1680 🔗

Yep. A country full of brainwashed, lazy, spineless, virtue signalling tossers. Most of the country deserve to live in misery.

136774 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 15, #1372 of 1680 🔗

I think the tide is going out not turning. Full maskage in the shops I’ve been in today. Almost all looking fed up, not sure if they are genuinely pissed off because they are having to wear their disgusting mask or are just mentally battered from the continued brainwashing and rumours of lockdowns, 2nd waves and infection rates.

Have also just been for a walk along cramond beach and promonade, mice to see people enjoying the fine Edinburgh evening.

It occurred to me that everybody looked fit and well and not ill. When are people going to realise if there is a deadly virus on the loose people would either look ill or be properly quarantined. I suppose they think wearing a face mask is keeping everyone safe.

Oh well, it’s Friday. Cheers everyone bottoms up.

136782 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to stefarm, 20, #1373 of 1680 🔗

Good news today on that front for me at least. Garden centre farm shop has stopped doing a max of 4 in the shop at any one time so no door guard there blocking you, because of the magical masks now protecting everyone(this is in Wales btw so masks only this week). I walked in without one, no one batted an eyelid, didn’t get any funny looks and when another man in there saw me without a mask on, as well as the woman at the fish counter, he happily slipped it under his chin and smiled all round! Just got to be confident not wearing one and people won’t challenge, and normally at least someone will follow along. Keep up the good fight!

136834 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to stefarm, 4, #1374 of 1680 🔗

Just seen 2 bare faced customers in Aldi. Excellent. But on the way home heard a dr on LBC fearmongering about the second wave and the NHS being overwhelmed and the presenter referring to “this terrible plague”. A mixed half hour.

136775 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 6, #1375 of 1680 🔗

I understand this book, by German experts, is an attempt to gently persuade people by showing the evidence that coronavirus is not a serious threat. Might be a useful resource

https://youtu.be/Pxyc3fTHi0I

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corona-False-Alarm-Facts-Figures/dp/1645020576

136905 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #1376 of 1680 🔗

I haven’t read the book, but watched all the authors videos. He describes everything really easy to understand, and the German version has been a bestseller for weeks.
I will def, get it in english to have the vocabulary and be able to support my arguments.

136777 dpj, replying to dpj, 17, #1377 of 1680 🔗

Sadly it looks like we are going to have to put up with relentless fear turned up to 11 for next couple of weeks until the vote to extend emergency powers. We just have to hope enough MPs have woken up and can make up their own mind.

136900 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to dpj, 6, #1378 of 1680 🔗

They will get the powers extended no matter what, now they’ve declared a second wave.

136922 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1379 of 1680 🔗

That’s the *whole reason* they’ve declared it now, and also why Simon Dolan’s case has been postponed – that they are lying re the stats etc and that their actions are disproportional would have all come out in court next week otherwise, and they would not have been able to extend the coronavirus act. Now it will have been extended by the time the case gets heard (if it ever does) and it will be harder to overturn it..

I would have hoped someone could find out who the lawyer is who claims to be on holiday… Would’ve been interesting to follow them around over the next week!

136904 ▶▶ Bella, replying to dpj, 4, #1380 of 1680 🔗

We don’t have to fear this bollocks at all. Get angry, kick a politician

136781 annie, replying to annie, 10, #1381 of 1680 🔗

A quote from an article by our sceptical archdeacon, for the consolation of Christians among us. I assume Toby/Will will link to the full article, but if necessary I’ll do it.

Ultimately, a society terrified by death – the fear that surely lies at the heart of reaction to COVID – needs to hear again the hope-filled news that Christ has defeated it.

136888 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to annie, #1382 of 1680 🔗

I agree, but in response to the thread immediately after to your post, I think we should consider that this is a possible manifestation of the Great Delusion of 2 Thess 2.

136790 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 18, #1383 of 1680 🔗

I’m sorry if this has been discussed in the past, I have been visiting here for a while but may have missed it. I spend a lot of time trying to think what is the end game of all of this?. Why have this government set out to ruin our economy( many other countries as well)for this virus, which very quickly proved itself to be far less lethal for most than was originally thought. I am a sceptic through and through but just wish I had reasonable answers to my own questions, or indeed for the people who shout me down and say that no government would crash it’s own economy for no good reason. I hope I don’t come across as gormless, maybe I am, but feel like my head is about to explode.

136851 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mrs issedoff, 8, #1384 of 1680 🔗

Mrs issedorf, you are surely 100% less gormless than the majority of the nation walking around without questioning a thing and thanking the government for taking their freedoms! I am definitely still in the panic-cockup-coverup-olympic arrogance camp, though I do think it is likely that certain interest groups will have gone all out to capitalise on that. However, I completely respect the views of friends here who see this as all manufactured in some way and I don’t dismiss their views, or assume that they won’t be proved right when it all comes out in the wash. Whatever the truth, we all know that the response to a virus has been criminally disproportionate and we all agree that we don’t want the present or the future that is being allowed to us now and we won’t accept it.

136856 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Mrs issedoff, 5, #1385 of 1680 🔗

The Government do not understand the principles of good management nor good science; as a retired manager in a scientific area I feel I can speak with a modicum of experience and say I share your frustration. If you are managing activities in a scientific/technical area you do not need to understand all the technicalities but you do need to know how to ask the right questions, which specialist to ask to do what tasks etc etc. And you have to know how to run effective project management, not difficult but does require you to be an inspiring manager to get the project driven forward.
If I was doing the annual appraisal for Buffoon Boris & Hapless Hancock, then as project managers in a technical area they would both be well and truly on the naughty step.

136865 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #1386 of 1680 🔗

It is because there was an unreported financial collapse last september. Basically the global financial system is finished. The globalists are resetting the economy and using coronavirus as an excuse for all the damage that will ensue

136923 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Kate, 2, #1387 of 1680 🔗

We all better have our debts paid off by the governments and bad players involved.
And some retribution. I want heads in spikes

137072 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Kate, 1, #1388 of 1680 🔗

Link? Want to know more

136808 Nic, replying to Nic, 9, #1390 of 1680 🔗

Its all about the vaccine, which might take 10 years or never, they cant keep this bs up for 10 years can they?

136813 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Nic, 2, #1391 of 1680 🔗

Rhetorical question Nic ?.

136815 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Nic, 8, #1392 of 1680 🔗

If that’s the case I hope I will be dead by then.

136817 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Nic, 8, #1393 of 1680 🔗

No they can’t. It’s got to end at some point sooner rather than later. It’s like being stuck in an horrific traffic jam. Eventually we’ll get through it.

136916 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Hubes, #1394 of 1680 🔗

There’s no end in sight though.

136826 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nic, 13, #1395 of 1680 🔗

This will last for as long as we allow it to. On current evidence I think the Covid State could last for decades. Eventually it will end, all authoritarian systems do.

136927 ▶▶ Will, replying to Nic, 3, #1396 of 1680 🔗

The Russians have made a vaccine, if they are so enthusiastic about taking a vaccine let them use Putins…

136812 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 11, #1397 of 1680 🔗

Just seen on the Metro newspaper website that police are going to patrol IKEA and several supermarkets in the Manchester area to “shame people into wearing masks”
It just gets better and better!!!

136816 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1398 of 1680 🔗

Well,Covid crime is the only crime now.

136818 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1399 of 1680 🔗

So the Police are going to break the law??

136823 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1400 of 1680 🔗

So, what’s new?

136824 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #1401 of 1680 🔗

Sounds like more complete bullshit from the media. I’m pretty sure that won’t be happening. Actually I’m positive it won’t. The police know about the equality act.

136830 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Hubes, 3, #1402 of 1680 🔗

Well you know their point is to try to frighten the hard core of sceptics like us.

136833 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1403 of 1680 🔗

“You are under arrest for not being ashamed to be not wearing a mask.”

136836 ▶▶ anon, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1404 of 1680 🔗

how is metro newspaper funded?

136837 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to anon, 1, #1405 of 1680 🔗

I’ve always wondered that.

136852 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1406 of 1680 🔗

Probably Bill Gates has just given them a load of money..

136985 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to anon, #1407 of 1680 🔗

Isn’t it owned by that bastion of factual reporting and certainly no scaremongering at all (not), the Daily Mail?

136828 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #1408 of 1680 🔗

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0239252 SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels
“SARS-CoV-2 positivity is strongly and inversely associated with circulating 25(OH)D levels, a relationship that persists across latitudes, races/ethnicities, both sexes, and age ranges. Our findings provide impetus to explore the role of vitamin D supplementation in reducing the risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 disease.

 Extremely big study. Very convincing.

136986 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1409 of 1680 🔗

Why don’t they suggest people take vitamin D? I read a Dr’s blog(Sebastian Rushworth I think) who said the evidence for vitamin D was far stronger than the evidence for masks.

136993 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 5, #1410 of 1680 🔗

Because vitamins can’t be patented, unlike medicines, so Big Pharma loses out if you get too healthy!

136831 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 8, #1411 of 1680 🔗

It seems to me the key groups to hit are the public servants, teachers etc who think their income is safe whatever happens. They are the main ones demanding lockdown and their position effectively benefits from it. They will still receive full pay.

How about this to bring it home, possibilities or likelihood of results of lockdown

Lockdown tax bombshell

Public service to lose pensions

Or something like that. Anything directly targeting these groups is needed becuase it seems these are the only groups Boris is listening too. Only when they feel scared the lockdown will hit their pockets will anything change

136835 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to FrankiiB, 9, #1412 of 1680 🔗

Everyone will get thrown under the bus eventually, they just need to ring-fence their base support for long enough to build up the infrastructure of the Covid State to the point where it cannot be dismantled.

136848 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 3, #1413 of 1680 🔗

I think you may well be right…

136842 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to FrankiiB, 5, #1414 of 1680 🔗

Remember the ONS people are public servants. Most of them are actually at work, whether at home or in the offices. I live next door to one, she works endless hours. My son is also a programmer. They aren’t all lazy buggars.

136873 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #1415 of 1680 🔗

The massive majority are not lazy, or in anyway ill intentioned.

We live in a society where a nurse starts off on £24,907 in London and a security guard gets £26k. Both deserve more. The nurse does not deserve losing their pensions off the back of the Boris shit show

136867 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #1416 of 1680 🔗

You are holding public sector workers to account for government policy. Why ? Sage are not civil servants. Government are not civil servants. The myriad of Special Advisers are not public sector workers.

I would wager that 99.9% of civil servants don’t agree with all of this. Don’t want all of this and are equally terrified about what’s happening. Given that the large majority are likely in situations where to survive they need two incomes due to lower wages I doubt anyone is cheering on measure that will affect them as much as anyone else because they are guaranteed their £25k a year.

To suggest that you rob these people of pensions is ridiculous. Indeed consider this, poor in life will not mean your pension makes you rich. The public sector also took it up the tail pipe for austerity. Packages are worth 20-25% less because of the Austerity.

Whitty / Valance might be paid in some capacity by Government, and I can see a point in blaming Whitty especially. But even Valance did not seem to argue for hard lock down before Cummins etc decides the fate of the country off the back of Professor pants down.

136896 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Leemc23, 2, #1417 of 1680 🔗

I don’t doubt there is a significant minority opposed but based on my experience the majority of the civil service is fully behind, or at least accepts it. Especially the management. It’s driven me near-insane.

136921 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to DRW, 1, #1418 of 1680 🔗

And not in my experience, but that’s not to say either experience is the definitive example of the public sector. I too have had to contend with increasingly piss poor leadership over the past year, but a lot of that has been driven by Government mantras. Rather than a belief in government policy.

136931 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Leemc23, #1419 of 1680 🔗

Interesting to hear of variation. My former organisation is full of fairly well paid WFH types so that probably makes a big difference.

137024 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, #1420 of 1680 🔗

based on my experience”

… sounds like the experience of very little.

137050 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Leemc23, #1421 of 1680 🔗

Hold public sector workers to the same standard as private sector.
Value their pensioms with the same rulebook.
Stop the 2 class system for pensions.

136994 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to FrankiiB, 8, #1422 of 1680 🔗

I’m a civil servant putting my head above the parapet here! I’m as sceptical as everyone else on this site and I’m desperate for this pantomime to be shown up for the complete bollocks it is.

137021 ▶▶ RickH, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #1423 of 1680 🔗

“It seems to me the key groups to hit are the public servants

And … boom …. FrankiiB falls straight into the Boris trap like a naive idiot. Exactly the sort of divide & rule shit that they want.

137172 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, #1424 of 1680 🔗

I think the point he was trying to make is because a lot of civil servants were either wFH or furloughed but with job security there was no real desire on their part to return to work.If I could sit at home knowing I had a job to return to,on full pay then I would gladly sit at home

136832 Nic, replying to Nic, 5, #1425 of 1680 🔗

Unless they furlough employees and pay businesses to shut I think there will be more resistance to a full lockdown this time.

136874 ▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to Nic, 10, #1426 of 1680 🔗

Unfortunately I think the only way “the Great British Public” will come to their senses is when the mass redundancies and personal hardship hits.

Unpleasant medicine in the short term for all of us, but if it persuades the great masked populace then so be it.

136899 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to JimByJovi, 1, #1427 of 1680 🔗

Will they though? I like to think so but they have been badly brainwashed.

137044 ▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to DRW, #1428 of 1680 🔗

Good point, but I suspect a lot of the brainwashed “Boris only wants to keep us safe & he’s doing his best..we all have to do our bit to help each other” could turn out to be temporary… What’s the betting that some [or indeed a large %] of them a few months ago were screaming for Cummings’ head, Boris to resign, and a few months before that were intimidating others on marches through Whitehall screaming ‘not my PM! I’m never listening to this PM…!’ & yes, I’m inclined to agree, when the ££ starts to run thin, or get cut down, see how many are ‘in this together’…

136840 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 12, #1429 of 1680 🔗

Although not particularly good with words, I have completed my input into the government consultation document. My background when I was working, was in medical laboratory technology and diagnostics. I have had to refresh some of my ailing memory with regards to immune systems, T cells and the like, but quite a bit is coming back to me. I have only recently got to some grips with this new-tech vaccination re mitochondrial RNA. Ye gods, how on earth do you explain this to the ordinary person in the street?? Most folk think that it is “just a vaccine”. I am not against new tech but to try and push this on an unsuspecting public is beyond thinkable.
I did make it clear in my response that I considered “rushed” vaccines to be totally unacceptable, very bad practise (or practice, dunno which) and wholly inappropriate for a virus which is only killing the very old and infirm. Plus the issues about the new technology, AND demanding why so many extra workforce are needed to “administer” the thing if government intends (haha) that it is not compulsory.
I suspect, as with all consultations in recent times, the public responses will end up in the bin, but at least I can claim that I did something about it.

136843 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #1430 of 1680 🔗

I made the poin that if you make vaccine makers immune from consequences then other safety critical industries can also do that. What’s good for the goose. Let’s see how much people will trust their phones, cars, water that has added experimental features?

137031 ▶▶ RickH, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #1431 of 1680 🔗

You don’t have to have a grasp of the detailed technology to know how stupid is the idea of an inadequately tested novel vaccine for a low consequence disease – or, actually, even for one of high consequence.

Giving manufacturers immunity is doubling down on stupidity – and a clear indication that the product has a high probability of being rubbish.

136844 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1432 of 1680 🔗

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/deena-hinshaw-alberta-covid-19-coronavirus-1.5728099

Sensible thing from Alberta ,Canada. Not like the monomaniacs in the UK

“To allow the province to prepare for influenza season, asymptomatic testing will therefore no longer be recommended for general population.” “From a public health perspective, we are facing a significant challenge over the coming months,” Hinshaw said. “COVID-19 is still here and is not going anywhere. At the same time, influenza season will soon begin.
“In addition to potentially contracting COVID-19, Albertans will have a greater chance of catching a cold or flu, which have very similar symptoms to COVID-19. More people with symptoms means that we will see more people needing to be tested. Our labs need to support cases of both COVID-19 and influenza.”

136883 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1433 of 1680 🔗

Makes complete sense to channel resources where they’re most needed. Only an idiot could think that testing an entire population would be a worthwhile use of resources.

136919 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, #1434 of 1680 🔗

… and not only testing them once, BJ wants to test the whole population DAILY..

136847 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 13, #1435 of 1680 🔗

This may not be verbatim but not yet on BBC iPlayer.
North West news tonight. Views of a Merseyside hairdresser….

Do you agree with the new local lockdown?
Oh yes, we should have stayed in lockdown until Christmas
Are you afraid of catching COVID?
Oh, no – I’m afraid of what it is doing to society.

The great British public have spoken.
Unbelievable!!!!

136853 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Polemon2, 12, #1436 of 1680 🔗

This goes beyond cognitive dissonance. It’s schizophrenia. We are literally in an asylum.

136881 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Richard O, 5, #1437 of 1680 🔗

The asylum, so true. Picture someone with average intelligence then think: 50% of the population are less intelligent than that person.

136902 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Howie59, 1, #1438 of 1680 🔗

Hence the reason why the government and MSM are running rings around us.

136860 ▶▶ Tking, replying to Polemon2, 16, #1439 of 1680 🔗

I think the hairdresser may change her mind when her furlough money ends, she ends up using a foodbank and gets behind on her rent. I dont think it will sink in for most people until it hits them in the pocket.

136910 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tking, 3, #1440 of 1680 🔗

People say what they think others want to hear. Think kids in a classroom.

136850 NickR, replying to NickR, 2, #1441 of 1680 🔗

This interactive website allows to see all positive tests by health area, there’s over 250 so quite a few. You can see data up to 16th Sept. It shows positive tests & calculates your local R.
Let me know if you like it.
https://livihawkins.shinyapps.io/COVIDjson/

136893 ▶▶ PFD, replying to NickR, 2, #1442 of 1680 🔗

This looks to be a great resource. The plots of cumulative number of cases are very informative. I’ve only looked at a few districts local to me. All show a standard Gompertz type distribution with a second ripple starting in August and flattening out already!

137036 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, #1443 of 1680 🔗

The ‘R’ number is simply a modeller’s fiction.

Just remember what epidemiological fictions have been allowed to do.

136869 Charlie Blue, 4, #1444 of 1680 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/18/almost-one-third-covid-deaths-july-august-primarily-caused-conditions/

Analysis shows that around 30 percent of people included in the coronavirus death toll by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) over the summer months had died primarily from other conditions.

136870 Basics, replying to Basics, 16, #1445 of 1680 🔗

A MILLION VIEWS!
https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac
In a week!
Well done Ivor Cummins.
People sharing good imfo.

136886 ▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, #1446 of 1680 🔗

Wahey!

136945 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, #1447 of 1680 🔗

It’s doing well. Unfortunately MSM rubbish probably gets millions of views every hour.

136965 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DRW, 3, #1448 of 1680 🔗

Yeah yeah same comment yesterday. Fair point too. My reply the same – quality not quantity. The video is home made and brilliant in its clarity of message. Millions every hour watching msm can not remember from one hour to the next. Cummins’ message is longer lasting, there are good reasons for that.

Even if only a seed planted it will remain and grow in it’s oen time. I feel the message is stronger than a seed.

137062 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 1, #1449 of 1680 🔗

Can’t believe YouTube haven’t pulled it

136877 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1450 of 1680 🔗

This is brilliant from Bob Moran. Not a lot makes me laugh these days (must be an age thing) but this certainly did:

https://twitter.com/bobscartoons/status/1307008171958034435

136878 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1451 of 1680 🔗

2/2

136890 ▶▶▶ Tking, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1452 of 1680 🔗

Thank you for posting this, I needed a laugh tonight

136884 Basics, 2, #1453 of 1680 🔗

Victoria. Police thugs – but where is it coming from? What is making Victoria far out insane?

Stronger Cities?

Here is a very good look at the background to the lockdown in Victoria. It covers much more than just the headline grabbing violent videos.

https://youtu.be/8VXch7mULLE

If anyone watches through to the fake social media accounts -ala 77- then know that Devi has twitter accounts saying to her “thank you devi you do so much for us, get some sleep”. It is stunning to see how states are being undermined.

136885 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 2, #1454 of 1680 🔗

Amazing how quickly things change…..
“My London” two days ago (16th)
The capital saw 278 cases on Tuesday, bringing the total of cases in the capital since the beginning of the pandemic to 43,685, that’s up from 41,765 on Wednesday, September 9, an increase of 1,920.
However the fact that London’s daily rate has again fallen below 300 new cases gives some encouragement after it had peaked over 300 again on several days last week for the first time since May 1.

Evening Standard today
A surge of Covid-19 in London has been confirmed – putting the capital city on track for curbs on socialising and nights out in around a fortnight.
The number of cases per 100,000 over seven days has shot up from 18.8 to around 25, the Evening Standard can reveal.

136887 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Polemon2, 3, #1455 of 1680 🔗

We’ll all be under at least mockdown by mid October.

136990 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Polemon2, 2, #1456 of 1680 🔗

“putting the capital city on track for curbs on socialising and nights out in around a fortnight .” This is what I don’t understand, if this virus is so bloody lethal and spreading as quickly as they make out then why wait a fortnight???

136997 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 3, #1457 of 1680 🔗

Allow immunity to develop. Situation stabilizes in a few weeks after curbs – Government takes the credit?

137083 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #1458 of 1680 🔗

Yes it’s so bizarre – I thought every day, even every hour, that we don’t go into lockdown costs lives, exponential growth, surging cases etc etc etc.

136901 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 3, #1459 of 1680 🔗

An excellent edition of UK Column News yet again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtwpJT9d1Lk

The first 10 minutes, “the path to the vaccine”, is well worth your undivided attention.

136915 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 3, #1460 of 1680 🔗

I’m not sure my mental health can take any more bad or scary news 🙁

136924 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Carrie, 3, #1461 of 1680 🔗

Yes – I think a lot of us are feeling like this now.

136925 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Carrie, 2, #1462 of 1680 🔗

I’m so used to it now I feel unsettled by good news or humour. The constant tension is somewhat addictive.

136903 DThom, 5, #1463 of 1680 🔗

Shopping at Morrisons and Marks today. Sadly not one other person without masks!
We are in small part of the North East not under lockdown.
Later we ate at Brewers Fayre – almost normal but friendly staff worried about lack of customers.

136909 tonys, 14, #1464 of 1680 🔗

And so in Calderdale we are locked down again, a few weeks after a brief partial respite. Mental health at rock bottom, the only saving grace I can see is that I doubt many people are taking much notice.

136912 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #1465 of 1680 🔗

A couple of months ago (can’t remember the date) I jokingly made a reference to the movie Minority Report. It now seems that pre-crime could become a reality in Victoria, Australia:

https://twitter.com/10NewsFirstMelb/status/1306500171828613123

Daniel Andrews’ plan to give police the power to arrest people who haven’t even committed an offence were put to parliament today. The new laws would even give public servants the power of arbitrary detention against citizens they think might breach lockdown

136913 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1466 of 1680 🔗

What???? Outrageous…

136917 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1467 of 1680 🔗

Where Victoria goes, the rest of the West will follow. Coming to the UK by the end of 2020. You have been warned.

136932 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1468 of 1680 🔗

I used to admire Australia for being a free country with a population very similar to our own (if a bit noisier). Not anymore, though it’s the Australians I feel the most sorry for.

137161 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1469 of 1680 🔗

I’m sorry but how can you feel sorry for people who allow this to happen to them regardless of where they come from

136914 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1470 of 1680 🔗

Had chat with party faithful today. It was begun by the conversation being started about the large areas ‘down south’ (hateful phrase) that have got it bad and are locking down.

A quick reply about cases being pathetic measure lead onto the need for a good party tabloid informed argument…

I was told about an American pastor who had contracted Covid19 after declaring masks ineffective. The party faithful took this as delightful proof masks work. The pastor looks to be in critical ill health I was told with a gloating smile of serves him right.

I set to, explaining how public health Party favourite was a member of DELVE who had made the case for masks via masked hamsters, I cited flu is caught by masked Asians in same quantities as non masked Europeans, added petri dish of bacteria in breath holes is not a bright idea, included 2 people under 45 dead from covid total in whole of party nation. And so on. You’ll not catch me in a mask, ever unless they physically force one onto me, I told them.

Well, the nasty party faithful reply came – we could just let the virus run riot and kill off a few thousand old people then get on with things.

Mask are about waiting to die – We need to start living I reply.

The party faithful is the most selfish person i know. They know intimately how badly my life has been affected, halted, by this fraud. Yet suggests I am advocating mass murder when I point out the problems with the scientific process and mandatory measures.

I have reported to LS the hypocracy of this party faithful before, power of 6? Not for the party faithful – but for every one else yes, and lets lockdown more for longer.

Happily not faced with that every day. But it is the same level of conversation everytime. A waste of time.

136920 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 6, #1471 of 1680 🔗

Whoever they are, they are going to suffer terribly for their egregious ignorance, much sooner than they could possibly imagine. I will not be shedding any tears when their excruciating demise occurs.

136928 Basics, replying to Basics, 24, #1472 of 1680 🔗

Lord Johnathon Sumption

“I don’t accept that there is a moral obligation to obey a law simply because it is the law. There are a number of considerations here, I think that you owe it to your fellow citizens to respect the law in circumstances where there is a common loyalty to the way in which the law was made. What critically matters is was it made in a democratically accountable fashion?”

https://youtu.be/-syjnHYST-4
At 36 mins in.

136929 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Basics, 14, #1473 of 1680 🔗

Very well put. An extreme example but remember that the brave, selfless men and women who hid Jews in WW2 were breaking the law.

136995 ▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1474 of 1680 🔗

And those who murdered them, were obeying the law. Actually, I have just finished reading Anne Frank Remembered by Miep Gies. The chilling fact is that the edicts the Nazis imposed on the Jews are resembling the draconian measures being placed on us.

136934 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 3, #1475 of 1680 🔗

Lex iniusta non est lex

136938 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1476 of 1680 🔗

Sadly hopes of any justice are disappearing.

136948 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to DRW, 7, #1477 of 1680 🔗

Cheer up – We have truth on our side. We can’t lose.

136954 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #1478 of 1680 🔗

We’ve already won! They just don’t know it yet!

136964 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 3, #1479 of 1680 🔗

How have we won? All I see is losing as the fear machines are cranked up again to get the dictatorial powers renewed and any chances of actual scrutiny are kicked into the long grass.

137004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DRW, 8, #1480 of 1680 🔗

Are you going to burning in hell over this matter? No, me either.

I’m thinking some have deals with the devil already.

Moral victory, unquestionable victory. Where is the fight against oppression won?

Wheels are falling off right left and centre, daily. And who are we, an unimportant bunch of no hopers? Or more accurately a growing band of clear thinking people who pose such a risk billions are spent on efforts to counter our simple thoughts? I think that is a huge victory, mind you don’t over look it.

The fuckwitshitians are panicked and terrified our morality spreads into more and more people.

A specialist disinformation officer at the bbc complaining people are mean to her on twitter. It’s hilarious how worried these people are by critical thought.

We are doing well.

136955 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1481 of 1680 🔗

We do. But does the truth still matter if nobody, or at least only a minority, actually believe in it?

137085 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, #1482 of 1680 🔗

“Great is Truth, and mighty above all things.”.

136969 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to DRW, #1483 of 1680 🔗

No they’re not. Just snoozing

136978 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bella, 1, #1484 of 1680 🔗

For how long? Months, years, decades? They may as well be dead.

136953 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1485 of 1680 🔗

I think Sumption was looking at the origin of a law making it unjust and therefore non-observable. This is more than an individual proclaimed unjustness – this is about the making of the law baking in a characteristic repugnant to democracy. The mechanism of forming law is at fault.

136973 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, #1486 of 1680 🔗

That’s Sumption’s legal take on it (which I get and understand) however I’m more of a punk fan than prog rock so prefer the overall ‘vibe’ of my pithy reply than going into the individual ‘notes’ 🥱 of JS’s statutory instruments etc.

Yes, I’m drinking.

137026 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1487 of 1680 🔗

Keep drinking, it’s interesting thinking.

Your pithy reply was great and took me to thinking more.

Try radio friend unit shifter for the right vibe, you want to listen to dave grohl putting in the added back beat that makes your spine and you know you are alive. That’s the right reply to lex this ‘n’ that!

136956 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Basics, #1488 of 1680 🔗

Germany passed lots of laws in the 1930 s and look what happend there.