Last updated2020-09-20T13:20:45



138573 JoeBlogg, replying to JoeBlogg, 20, #1 of 1566 🔗

Is it over yet?

138750 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to JoeBlogg, 22, #2 of 1566 🔗

Nearly. Matt and Boris are just putting the economy in the deep freeze and Professor Ferguson is finishing off his sums. Just be patient. You’ll be able to go out and play in six months…assuming nothing else goes wrong.

138888 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to OKUK, 3, #3 of 1566 🔗

V funny

138575 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 22, #4 of 1566 🔗

Got out, now in foreign country

138576 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 12, #5 of 1566 🔗

Keep safe (no not from plague but from the dictator)

138577 ▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to Cecil B, 8, #6 of 1566 🔗

I’ve been on foreign soil since day 1, unfortunately the south eastern world tends to follow the west blindly

138578 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to JoeBlogg, 9, #7 of 1566 🔗

And the west follows the south east (via WHO, in China’s pocket), which is why we are going round and round in circles……

138581 ▶▶▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to Tim Bidie, 18, #8 of 1566 🔗

Yes, the west dances along to the tune of the WHO and others, and then most of south east asia follows the west.
We’ve had 59 deaths since the beginning here and yet people still believe the plague is just outside our doors.

Most people riding their mopeds will wear facemasks but no crash helmets!

138585 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to JoeBlogg, 7, #9 of 1566 🔗


‘People were always chasing after some leader or another, and stumbling from one superstition to the next, cheering His Majesty one day and giving the most disgusting incendiary speeches in Parliament the next, and none of it ever amounted to anything in the end! If this could be miniaturized by a factor of a million and reduced, as it were, to the dimensions of a single head, the result would be precisely the image of the unaccountable, forgetful, ignorant conduct and the demented hopping around that has always been the image of a lunatic.’

Robert Musil

138684 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JoeBlogg, 11, #10 of 1566 🔗

The first person I saw wearing a visor was riding a push bike, similarly without a crash hat.
The visor was at 45 degrees.

138764 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to karenovirus, 7, #11 of 1566 🔗

I am beginning to notice more morons wearing masks and face shields.

139954 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nfw, replying to petgor, #12 of 1566 🔗

I suppose that’s how they self identify, as morons, that is.

138869 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to karenovirus, 14, #13 of 1566 🔗

Yesterday in the shopping centre my partner and I witnessed two locals meet, one in a mask, the other in a mask and PVC visor. The two young gentlemen proceeded to remove all PHE for a brief chat and a quick selfie “whilst the virus was safely at bay of course” before swiftly returning to their shields and continuing shopping. Unbelievable.

138883 ▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to JoeBlogg, 7, #14 of 1566 🔗

Yep, one little boy screeched down the road the other day on his little pop-pop bike – no helmet but fully napped up! So glad he was taking SAFETY seriously!

139398 ▶▶▶▶▶ HereticHereward, replying to JoeBlogg, 1, #15 of 1566 🔗

We may be in the same country. Masks worn everywhere but removed for politeness to talk to people. And in one hilarious instance, a taxi driver removed his mask to cough lavishly into his hand, then carefully recovered his face. At least the gogo girls only cover their faces. It’s better than Sunderland,

140141 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Tim Bidie, #16 of 1566 🔗

The WHO is in Bill Gates’s pocket.

138762 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to JoeBlogg, 3, #17 of 1566 🔗


138853 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Cecil B, 3, #18 of 1566 🔗

anywhere good? can you recommend somewhere sane to escape to?

138579 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #20 of 1566 🔗

Lockdown Sceptics Sweepstakes

I’ll go for Bristol being next.

138588 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 4, #21 of 1566 🔗

Too far south. I’ll go Hull.

138590 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #22 of 1566 🔗

To Hull and back.
Hull and high water.
To Hull on a Handjob.
Hull is other people.

138665 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to annie, 8, #23 of 1566 🔗

Hull hath no limits, nor is circumscribed In one self place, for where we are is hull, And where hull is there must we ever be.

138680 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Strange Days, 7, #24 of 1566 🔗

Oh hulp.

138687 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, #25 of 1566 🔗

Looking at the particular areas of Greater Manchester and West Midlands they’ve picked on I’d say St. Paul’s in Bristol.

138689 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #26 of 1566 🔗

Could be, not many Tory voters in Hull.

138735 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to karenovirus, 2, #27 of 1566 🔗

Perhaps not in Hull itself, but the neighbouring constituency is that of David Davis.

139340 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #28 of 1566 🔗

Has Leeds already gone? They were threatening posh Harrogate last week. What is the world coming to?!

138629 ▶▶ Sue, replying to karenovirus, 3, #29 of 1566 🔗

Heck no that’s where i am!!
Seriously though is there anything to suggest this as i don’t follow figures locally etc

138695 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sue, 6, #30 of 1566 🔗

No Sue it’s just a game, but they might want to make a ‘surgical strike’ further south while they think they are winning.

138906 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Sue, 2, #31 of 1566 🔗

Hello Sue. Me too. He’s had 4 emails from me so far. Not so many Tories in Hull no – 3 Labour strongholds (in the old days John Prescott held the east of the city in his grip and more recently Alan Johnson who is a decent bloke held West Hull) but in last elections things shifted – still labour but tighter fought. Hull is unitary authority and boundaries are very tight and is surrounded by leafy green more affluent East Riding seats.
There was a mask protest last Saturday – I couldn’t go but would join any others if anyone here knows of others.

139346 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #32 of 1566 🔗

Transport is being arranged for the big London one next weekend: https://www.standupx.info/

138658 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to karenovirus, 3, #33 of 1566 🔗


138732 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to karenovirus, 8, #34 of 1566 🔗

I’m going for Scotland (a full national lockdown). Sturgeon is just itching to do it.

139246 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #35 of 1566 🔗

Sadly I agree and she will enjoy every minute of it

138790 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to karenovirus, 1, #36 of 1566 🔗

LB of Redbridge

138847 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to karenovirus, 5, #37 of 1566 🔗

I’ll go for the entire UK.

139127 ▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 4, #38 of 1566 🔗

I’ll go for a small village in the county of Derbyshire called Eyam.

139312 ▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Basics, 3, #39 of 1566 🔗

Why, has someone sent up a bundle of infected clothing from London?

139916 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #40 of 1566 🔗

Eyam, close to where I grew up.
Self lockdown plague heroes whose descendants are, apparently, immune to AIDS.

139229 ▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to karenovirus, 1, #41 of 1566 🔗


139321 ▶▶ DRW, replying to karenovirus, 2, #42 of 1566 🔗

England-wide mockdown

139349 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, 1, #43 of 1566 🔗

A bite at a time.

139341 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #44 of 1566 🔗

Is it a Labour council – or have they locked all those down already?

139431 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #45 of 1566 🔗

Keir Starmer has volunteered them all.

138582 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 50, #47 of 1566 🔗

Gratitude to those few who visit this site with an entirely contrary view, in support of government policy.

Debate is a useful device for divining where the truth lies in any particular matter.

And it is the lack of debate over necessary measures that has landed us in this complete shambles.

My view, after reading the views (dated 06 February) of an acknowledged coronavirus expert based in China during the outbreak, and after reading a 2017 peer reviewed paper showing that the common cold was more deadly to the elderly and infirm than influenza, was that this coronavirus that emerged in 2019 at some stage, was simply another common cold coronavirus.

It is still a mystery to me that any modeller could arrive at any realistic scenario based on data from China, where the case definition changed seven times, or on data from Italy where the covid 19 mortality figures were revised down to 12% of the original figure.

The only possible explanation for that kind of model had to be either a confection massaged to suit government policies already decided on or an attempt at professional advancement of some kind.

In fact, it turned out to be both, as we now realise, Britain forced by Macron to adopt lockdown to avoid French closure of its borders and the modellers previously rumbled as charlatans with form by Edinburgh University:

‘During the 2001 epidemic of FMD in the United Kingdom (UK), this approach was supplemented by a culling policy driven by unvalidated predictive models. The epidemic and its control resulted in the death of approximately ten million animals, public disgust with the magnitude of the slaughter……The UK experience provides a salutary warning of how models can be abused in the interests of scientific opportunism’

As a tragic consequence, over ten thousands lives have been cut short. So the attempts at justification will continue but must be given an official forum, together with alternative views, in the shape of an immediate independent public enquiry.

The longer that is delayed, petty stratagems of deferral of court actions and so on, the bigger the scandal, and consequent sanctions, are likely to be.

138785 ▶▶ Jon G, replying to Tim Bidie, 10, #48 of 1566 🔗

I’m a lockdown sceptic, I think the response has been stupid – but how do you explain the excess mortality? Lockdowns? New Zealand has a hard one (ooo, er) with no associated death (yet).
Are you sure it’s not just the case that this virus is new, quite nasty to the elderly infirm, and our response has been hysterical?

138910 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jon G, 19, #49 of 1566 🔗

Nobody can be sure that the Sars-cov-2 even exists, as it has never been isolated. On that basis everything else is a likely scam. As for excess deaths, you answered it yourself, lockdowns and the blatant refusal by the NHS to do the job it is paid for. Hospital managers doctors and nurses have been largely taking money under false pretences since March. However the real blame lies with Johnson and Hancock who should both be in prison cells awaiting trial for mass murder. It is long past time Cressida Dick did her job properly, just for once, and had both of these uber criminals clapped in irons.

139305 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Rowan, 3, #50 of 1566 🔗

Do you think any virus has ever been ‘isolated’? If so, which one(s)?

139361 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bruno, 2, #51 of 1566 🔗

Thank you for my making my point so eloquently.

138997 ▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to Jon G, 7, #52 of 1566 🔗

New Zealand didn’t just have a lockdown, they had border closures before the virus got in. the lockdown didnot help, but by stopping the virus entering they reduced the spread. Personally I’m against border closures, I approve of free movement and free trade, I also note that New Zealand is still living in fear of the first wave coming, because it would spread widely, another downside of border closures. Border closures then are bad overall, but semi-effective fo slowing covid. lockdowns are bad overall but don’t do anything to stop covid.

139054 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Harry590, 16, #53 of 1566 🔗

NZ are simply maintaining a susceptible population indefinitely. Why would anyone wish to do that?
It’s the ultimate no exit strategy..

139071 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #54 of 1566 🔗

I presume that in the long term they are relying on a vaccine coming from somewhere.

139443 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard Pinch, 9, #55 of 1566 🔗

Vaccines against coronaviruses have never been successful and the likelihood is that they will be inevitably unsafe. However, they will be liability free and so Bill Gates and Big Pharma stand to make a big killing.

139237 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Kevin 2, 12, #56 of 1566 🔗

They don’t want an exit strategy. It’s all about control. Covid-19 is a total scam.

139313 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kevin 2, 4, #57 of 1566 🔗

In terms of costs and benefits, it’s simply pathological self-harm.

139454 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Kevin 2, 3, #58 of 1566 🔗

It seems Jacinda Adern has no problem with being that stupid.

139965 ▶▶▶▶▶ nfw, replying to Kevin 2, #59 of 1566 🔗

It’s Nah Zoolend. Who cares?

139216 ▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Harry590, 9, #60 of 1566 🔗

My point was that a lockdown (and border closures) in NZ hasn’t caused excess death.
On that basis, if the virus ‘doesn’t exist’ how do we explain the excess death seen across much of the world?
I mean let’s be real – it does exist. Lots of viruses exist and we’d expect a new one now & again. And it caused some death.
But our response has been hysterical.
When people start saying it doesn’t exist, apart from making no sense it enables people to consider all sceptics as complete lunatics.

139401 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jon G, 4, #61 of 1566 🔗

Although coronavirus was supposedly with us throughout March, deaths remained very low until the draconian lockdown measures were introduced.

Thousands of vulnerable people, ill with all kinds of manner of ailments were thrown out of hospitals last March and sent on to nursing homes and there left to rot and die.

These nursing homes had no proper PPE and their residents were cruelly denied virtually all medical treatment throughout the lockdown period. Many thousands of other people in the community at large were also denied normal treatment for emergency and acute conditions.

This wholesale refusal of the health services to do the job, that they are paid for, has not yet happened in NZ. What more do you need to know?

139427 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Harry590, 3, #62 of 1566 🔗

Border closures are wrecking the economy and if the virus actually exists then NZ is a ticking time bomb.

139310 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jon G, 9, #63 of 1566 🔗

“Excess mortality” means little – it’s another modelling by-product, amenable to a multitude of definitions.

All you can usefully measure is the level of mortality against the long-term levels and trends. This gives a true sense of proportion.

By this criterion, this last season was one of high, but not exceptional, mortality – only the eighth highest in a quarter of a century.

The important point is that far worse infections have come and gone whilst continuing with normal life.

Thus : this is a political crisis – not one caused by disease.

139378 ▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to RickH, 1, #64 of 1566 🔗

That’s another point altogether- and one with which I strongly agree.
The point I made is that simply pretending the virus doesn’t exist is silly. How can we develop understandings of viruses if we sometimes arbitrarily choose to simply ignore them?!
And you say excess death is meaningless and proceed to explain exactly why it’s a very useful measure – in this case you used it to put this virus in some context.

139393 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jon G, 1, #65 of 1566 🔗

Who’s pretending it doesn’t exist? Stating that there’s no actual proof is not the same as a denial.

There’s no proof the HIV virus exists but the fact that the symptoms can be treated suggests it probably does.

139462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, #66 of 1566 🔗

It suggests that the condition is treatable, nothing more than that.

139425 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jon G, #67 of 1566 🔗

We do not need to pretend anything. There is no proper evidence that the Sars-cov-2 coronavirus exists and that is fact. If it does exist then Covid-19 is no more lethal than seasonal flu. Accordingly there is absolutely no justification for the government’s liberty crushing and economy wrecking measures. The government knows all this and so we have to ask just what is it really up to.

139703 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Rowan, #68 of 1566 🔗

Let’s pretend you understand that viruses are obligate intracellular parasites, which cannot be ‘isolated’ from the cells in which they exist, and move on to arguing about whether they have unique RNA/DNA which can be identified, shall we?

139499 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Jon G, #69 of 1566 🔗

Excess mortality? Introducing covid 19 into care homes by discharging infected patients from hospital would have been lethal:

‘The rapid discharge of patients from hospital to care homes during the height of the COVID-19 crisis, without taking into account the needs of the whole care system, has had tragic consequences, ADASS has said.

In its Coronavirus Survey, ADASS found that a significant proportion of people leaving hospital last month did not receive an assessment of their needs as part of ‘discharge to access’.

Only 65% of directors of adult social services reported that every individual in their local authority area is receiving an assessment of their needs, while just 11% of directors believe that every patient was discharged to the right place for them to best meet their needs.’


‘Since March there have been over 26,000 excess deaths in care homes, of which about 15,000 were recorded with COVID-19. The patterns and trends of the remaining excess deaths point to a substantial proportion of these being unreported deaths with COVID-19.’

The health and mortality impact of COVID-19 can only partially be quantified from looking at COVID-19 deaths.’


Lockdowns? No effect whatsoever.

Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.’

A country level analysis measuring the impact of government actions, country preparedness and socioeconomic factors on COVID-19 mortality and related health outcomes. LANCET paper 21 July 2020

139692 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, #70 of 1566 🔗

As a postscript, the discharge of untested patients from hospitals into care homes would have transmitted any number of viruses into care homes, all of them lethal in that context, particularly common cold viruses, more lethal to the elderly and infirm than influenza:

‘Unexpectedly Higher Morbidity and Mortality of Hospitalized Elderly Patients Associated with Rhinovirus Compared with Influenza Virus Respiratory Tract Infection’
Rhinovirus infection in the adults was associated with significantly higher mortality and longer hospitalization when compared with influenza virus infection. Institutionalized older adults were particularly at risk.’


139146 ▶▶ Caramel, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #71 of 1566 🔗

Are you talking about Prof John Nicholls in HK? This was one of the first things I read about covid.


139421 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Caramel, #72 of 1566 🔗


139302 ▶▶ jakehadlee, replying to Tim Bidie, 21, #73 of 1566 🔗

Absolutely. I was an editor at the BBC during the Bird Flu outbreak and was horrified by our (and the general media’s) wilful misreading of data in support of publishing scare stories to attract an audience. I raised my concerns at the time and was roundly ignored.

However, it sparked an interest in the science of virus scares that meant I was researching the information coming out of China before the first cases in Europe.

Just had an email from a friend apologising for dismissing my concern back in March telling me “everything you said would happen has happened,” which it has.

But that is not to blow my own trumpet – its to highlight that even an amateur with a passing interest in epidemiology and a journalist’s capacity for research could see that, at the very least, there was not enough evidence of risk to warrant a destructive lockdown.

If I could see it, and if many others way more qualified than me could see it, why in hell couldn’t the government? Why – when what they were proposing to do was so terrible that it would need to be 100% sure of what was going to happen – did they go ahead on flimsy evidence just because they were scared?

There must be the option to take legal action over the handling of this at some point – somebody needs to be held account in the end for all of this.

139303 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to jakehadlee, 2, #74 of 1566 🔗

Your comments reflect my own experience – and the contrast with current ‘churnalism’ that prevails in the media.

139331 ▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to jakehadlee, 5, #75 of 1566 🔗

You have reminded me of two neighbours at the time of the Bird Flu scare, both of whom kept hens.
One neighbour spent a fortune building roofed enclosures and other safety measures advised by Defra; the other neighbour simply carried on as usual letting his flock out to wander the fields.
I bet you can guess which one doesn’t learn from mistakes and which one is the lockdown sceptic!

139399 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to jakehadlee, 3, #76 of 1566 🔗

What actual choice did they have? Accepting of course that they always act in a self-interested way.
Scenario 1 was that the virus didn’t turn out to be too bad (ie what’s actually happened).
No lockdown would’ve resulted in the UK’s death rate being amongst the highest in the world – cus that’s what actually happened! Boris would have lost his job, his reputation and the tories the general election. That’s a big risk.
Scenario 2 is that it does turn out that 250k people die, at which point you really are in the shit – however unlikely.
Answer honestly – would you be the guy in the meeting saying you think we need to protect the economy?!
That’s why Tegnell deserves a medal. The courage to apply reason and stand by the data when there wasn’t much about.
No, the government have been shit but I blame the media and society at large. Unable to have difficult conversations because they’re all a bunch of snowflakes.

139615 ▶▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Jon G, 4, #77 of 1566 🔗

Our politicians have sought high office, and presumably consider themselves fit to take difficult decisions in times of crisis.

I might have had some sympathy for the Government if it had ended the ‘lockdown’ measures sooner, but the pandemic has been over since June and they are now prolonging the agony solely in order to justify their original decision. Therefore, I look forward to their being held to account for their actions.

141579 ▶▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Jon G, #78 of 1566 🔗

I like to think – knowing how the same models had failed previously and considering the counter information available at the time – I would have gone the Tegnell route. Who knows?

For one brief moment I thought Boris was going to do that, but as soon as he became aware that even if one healthy person died he would be blamed he lost his bottle and caved.

I think he will lose his job and the Tories will be blamed anyway, when the truth comes out. But yes he was in a no win situation in March. Still no excuse for being an idiot now mind.

I think if he’d stuck to his guns originally I might even have ended up voting Tory for the first time in my life. Now thankfully I won’t have to.

EDIT: Yes and I blame the media too. More than anyone. Which was why I was so concerned when I worked in it, as I knew the damage it was capable of in pursuit of the more exciting story.

139490 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to jakehadlee, 4, #79 of 1566 🔗

Many lay people, like yourself, as well as experts had the measure of what was going on from more or less day one. This dodgy “pandemic” had been telegraphed for a decade or more in various documents and perhaps most blatantly so, only last October by Bill Gates and Co in Event 210, which was literally a taking the piss event.

Johnson and Hancock have brought about the deaths of very many thousands of our own people and their actions have been criminal. They are looking to bring about another cull of the vulnerable this autumn and both need to be brought to justice very quickly, but of course there will be fat chance of that.

139810 ▶▶▶ Eve, replying to jakehadlee, 2, #80 of 1566 🔗

Yes, we really, really need legal challenges or the situation will just deteriorate even further. I think if people start to see challenges to lockdown they’ll open their minds and realise that the MSM has been totally inept at factual reporting during this crisis.

138583 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #81 of 1566 🔗

Piers Corbyn calls brother Jeremy a liar at controversial Cornwall anti-mask rally


Peru has been on strict military lockdown since March but has the highest death ratre in the world, far higher death rate than no lockdown Brazil.

With the truth we will win

138591 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #82 of 1566 🔗

Good old Piers, he does get around a lot.
The article quotes him in full though I didn’t actually hear him say ‘liar’
Comments about 50/50, Sceptics with lots of facts and figures to counter the zealots childish hate.

138584 Tom Blackburn, 9, #83 of 1566 🔗

Al Johnson is starting to remind me of Al Gore in South Park with nobody taking him super cereal.

138586 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 17, #84 of 1566 🔗


Boris and co should read this and reflect.

Having recommended this, I wonder whether the misguided, disastrous experiment foisted on the public without adequate scrutiny is actually intended to promote extensive neural and psychological remodelling, such that an embedded ,widespread and passive compliance will ensue.

Protest and dissent would then die out, not as a result of the financial and social penalties now employed, but because of systematic brainwashing , the result of reconfiguration of neural pathways.

138681 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 9, #85 of 1566 🔗

Well they haven’t reconfigured ours.

138691 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 3, #86 of 1566 🔗

No,and they won’t either! worrying though.

138753 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 16, #87 of 1566 🔗

It’s an excellent article should be required reading for those who still believe that the government is doing the right thing.

Social isolation and social distancing are damaging the fabric and bonds of society. We’ve long seen this with young people with their attachment to their mobile phones and the current crisis is causing untoward psychological and mental harm to children.

The a few years later when all this is over cue weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth over antisocial children and its assorted problems.

We will have to remind them that they were complicit in this widespread child abuse.

And the reminder should be all day, every day.

139403 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 1, #88 of 1566 🔗

We’re seeing that clearly already!

139471 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to wendyk, 1, #89 of 1566 🔗

I remember once seeing some programme about Australia, where they had a prison with no interaction between prisoners, they were all kept in isolation, and Sunday went to a church service, but they all had separate cubicles. They all went mad.
This was during Victorian times. I have been looking for some info on this since March, cannot find anything.

139589 ▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Silke David, 1, #90 of 1566 🔗

Lincoln Castle is now a museum but was a Victorian prison with exactly that system. The chapel is still there and a picture is available online.
I was reminded it when I read of the dystopian, silent, masked solitary confinement that my old university is imposing on the members of its colleges.

138587 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 53, #91 of 1566 🔗

About the hollowing out of our city centres because lockdown.
A while back I listened to a talk about the decline of cities in the Roman Empire and there are some parallels.

In the middle decades of 3rd Century the population of the Western Empire was reduced by over 20% by a series of epidemics. During the same period the Emperors centralized their power (Coronovirus Legislation Enabling Act) increasing the civil service from a few hundred to tens of thousands to take direct control of cities and large towns (local curfews),

This left the urban elites with no role in the leadership of their communities and so no point in tickling their egos by erecting temples, monuments or other public buildings. Their response was to drift back to their rural estates from where the cities wealth had ultimately derived (working from home).

This led their many city dependents with no source of income as thousands of servants, fish paste purveyors, locksmiths, gladiators, prostitutes and the like became unemployed (700,000 redundancies).

Exacerbated by the unruly incursions of barbarian invaders (let’s not go there).

For the cities the decline was permanent, when they came to be walled in the early 4th Century they were only 20-40 % their earlier size.

This took place over several decades, Boris & The Wankers have managed to achieve similar in six months.

138598 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to karenovirus, 31, #92 of 1566 🔗

I have been thinking about this too. I feel like the developed nations of the world are hurtling towards the kind of economic turmoil that is going to prompt a huge shift in civilisation. I’m not sure what or when yet, but I suspect violence in some form or other is going to feature heavily. It’s what history would suggest. Scared for my children.

139733 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sophie123, 2, #93 of 1566 🔗

I have to agree that things seem to be slipping into the abyss. It’s almost certainly intentional and is likely part of the plan for the Great Reset. The new clean green world that’s coming, will necessarily be a lot leaner, so most of us will have no place there. That would be a very big problem, but no doubt they already working on the solution.

139959 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Rowan, #94 of 1566 🔗

There were upsides. Throughout the Western Empire the most opulent villas were built in the 4th Century.

Cities were replaced by hundreds of small self sustaining market towns but what was lost was the massive trade in small value goods that provided the former tax base and the ability to defend against outside aggression.

Soz, bit pissed.

138637 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 21, #95 of 1566 🔗

Well said and very interesting parallels. I’ve long been convinced that this is our sack of Rome moment and the barbarians have breached the city walls.

The hollowing out of urban areas during the decline of the Western Roman empire led to the development of the latifunda – large semi-rural or rural estates. Many people fled to these areas for security and jobs then become dependent on them for their living. Another consequence of the latifunda system meant that communities became inward looking and isolated not helped by lawlessness and barbarian invasion.

The idea of the Dark Ages came about as learning, culture, the sciences and even the rule of law fell by the wayside.

If we are not careful, we will heading towards another Dark Ages.

138700 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #96 of 1566 🔗

Agreed and latifundia were worked by slaves, the aristos had no need of paid workers who instead became the idle urban mob.

ps, we don’t say Dark Ages any longer because it’s judgemental, now its
Late Antiquity.

138756 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 9, #97 of 1566 🔗

Exactly and this evolved to the feudal system that was the bedrock during the High and Late Middle Ages. In our present day, this will mean that employers can pile on more work to their employees working from home without any additional monetary compensation. Or more internships and volunteering to replace paid work in the case of sectors such as journalism, fashion and heritage.

I am aware that we don’t use Dark Ages any more but I used it in this case to demonstrate where we’re heading to in terms of historical parallels. But I get your point.

139019 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #98 of 1566 🔗

We do seem to use “Dark ages” although historians nowadays tend to insist it wasn’t so dark. They try to point out that some levels of craftmanship and long range trade still survived within it, but nothing on the scale of Rome.

140004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Harry590, 2, #99 of 1566 🔗

Slightly OT but I have a pet theory that we may find our own time referred to by future historians as a ‘dark age’ due to the fact that so much information is realised on degradable media (viz.magnetic tape or hard drives). Our main contribution to the archaeological record will be plastic waste, including evidence of a brief period in which humans created huge amounts of strange plastic cloths, pleated twice and with a short loop at each end. Many have been found in oceans, and coupled with the fact that most are blue, it is possible they were offerings to water gods in an attempt to prevent sea level rises. But we can only speculate as to their true useful purpose…

139345 ▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to karenovirus, 3, #100 of 1566 🔗

Early Middle Ages is the term that has been used for some time to denote the period 500 -1000 AD, certainly in school history books( and yes, I still use BC/AD).

139386 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Judith Day, 2, #101 of 1566 🔗

When I was teaching, I would use Early, High and Late Middle Ages which is pretty much in the text books anyway.

139972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, #102 of 1566 🔗

Agreed, so long as we can avoid BCE and CE.

138708 ▶▶ stewart, replying to karenovirus, 21, #103 of 1566 🔗

This left the urban elites with no role in the leadership of their communities

This is the key really, isn’t it? When you take responsibility away from people for themselves and their communities, bad things happen.

The call for a restoration of our freedom and civil liberties should really be a call for our responsibility to be given back to us. In this case, the responsibility for our own health and wellbeing.

But it’s just part of a general trend where we cede more and more responsibility and functions of our life to the state, gradually hollowing ourselves out. Stay home, we’ll give you money, we’ll tell you how to care for yourself, we’ll tell you what you can and can’t do and we’ll tell you what to think.

It’s really a more technologically advanced form of communism. Terrifying.

138746 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 11, #104 of 1566 🔗

I’m sure we all know of busy traffic junctions where when the lights fail everybody behaves sensibly and the traffic flows better than usual.

139024 ▶▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to karenovirus, 3, #105 of 1566 🔗

Such traffic light failures usually favour the majority, the biggest road with the largest traffice volume gets across the intersection or on to the roundabout easily, anyone coming in from a smalllr lower volume side road struggles to get in. But with the current situation, unlike traffic lights, the state is enforcing in favour of the majority (regreattably they are lockdownist fools) rather than in favour of continued effectiveness and getting things done. So even if, with responsibility, large numbers of people are selfish or fall in to groupthink, this is still better than have such selfishness and groupthink enforced upon all.

138796 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stewart, 11, #106 of 1566 🔗

I’ve been saying this since the madness commenced:personal responsibility, maturity, rationality and curiosity have vanished into the social lost and found; will they reappear?

A well educated friend-a retired primary teacher-recently replied ,when I was fulminating about the Rule of Six and its stupidity-‘well I try to follow the rules’.

This is what i find so frustrating and disheartening; well educated ostensibly intelligent folk are obediently accepting this control creep , with the implication that those of us who resist are troublesome irresponsible knowalls.

Finally on communism and its successful power grab in post Czarist Russia, I recommend this book:

‘Caught In The Revolution’ by Helen Rappaport.

Fascinating, easy to read and full of the eye witness accounts of the many British, American,.French and other expats living and working in St Petersburg .

Equally fascinating is :

‘A Dance Between The Flames’ by Anton Gill

Life in the ill fated Weimar republic .

Both books give vivid accounts of societies in crisis,with economic hardship, impoverishment and unrest leading to the demise of democracy and the advent dangerous demagogues like Lenin and Hitler.

138915 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to wendyk, 17, #107 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for book ideas – on my list growing longer by the day. I’ve just lost (another) long time friend fiercely intelligent retired research chemist who announced he can no longer see me due to my refusal to wear a mask. His discourteous text “I really can’t continue to organise my life around responsible caution and keep lunching with you if you continue this Trumpian denial” was the final straw.
This schism is worse that Brexit!

138968 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Keen Cook, 6, #108 of 1566 🔗

Awful! This will be so difficult to overcome, based,as it is, on a kind of moral superiority-mistaken, as we know, but we are the useful miscreants.

139031 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to Keen Cook, 10, #109 of 1566 🔗

I was a remainer, and was so strongly a remainer that even friends of mine who happened to be in the Lib Dem* party used to hate it. Today I stopped hiding my lockdown opinions from my other friends too, emailed everyone I’ve ever known with a long statement on the folly of our government’s crimes. Don’t know how many will still be friends after they’ve read it, but those who are will be the friends worth keeping. I cannot imagine a society where the schism opened by the illegal lockdown has healed, I intend to associate only with anti-lockdownists for as long as I live.
*Lost those friends when the supported lockdown and I didn’t

139363 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Keen Cook, 5, #110 of 1566 🔗

I have a friend that’s v similar. She said she’s genuinely interested in my views, but I can tell she’s not and thinks I’m a populist and a denier.

She told me the other day she is a “woke liberal” and proud of it.

She also thinks it’s right that Scot Atlas has been challenged by 70+ leading Professors and been effectively cancelled.

She questions “why would the govt / media mislead…?”

I can’t believe she’s is a cambridge grad tbh.

139383 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ndovu, replying to Keen Cook, 3, #111 of 1566 🔗

How does he manage to eat his lunch with a mask on?

139406 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Keen Cook, 4, #112 of 1566 🔗

“Trumpian denial” – WTF???

Is he another one suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome?

138809 ▶▶ Kate, replying to karenovirus, 6, #113 of 1566 🔗

Roman wealth was not just created by commerce and technological developments but by the importance of the trade in slavery which grew to unprecedented proportions as the Roman empire expanded.
This made small businesses and independent farms uneconomic as they could not compete with the free labour of slaves.

The middle classes collapsed, the small farmers were absorbed into the large farming estates as virtual slaves (many former citizens had to sell themselves and their children to survive) and there was massive moral and cultural decline. In fact you were better off under a barbarian ruler that as part of the Roman empire.

The parallels between the hollowing out of Roman society and what is happening now as middle class jobs are outsourced to China and India, and our middle class cannot maintain its financial or social status – are most worrying.

What ultimately happened – and this is the most interesting bit – is that the upper and middle classes, who would normally have expected to have successful careers in the military and civil service, became disenchanted with the roman ideal, and rather than joining the military and protecting the Empire, went off to live in caves as Christian monks.

They were inspired by a different ideal, one which went completely counter to the military and civil ideal of antiquity

138816 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 5, #114 of 1566 🔗

The Roman empire collapsed from the inside first, because wealth was concentrated at the top.- and obscene amounts of wealth – check out Seneca’s income.
It was the destruction off the middle class and the loss of adequate social mobility that undermined it.
And as it weakened internally, external invasion could succeed.

138989 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Kate, 10, #115 of 1566 🔗

Which has relevance for the western world as it is today: managed, not governed in the true sense, by ambitious box ticking PR-toting technocrats who lack both true conviction and moral courage.

The woke commitment to open borders and abolition of virtually every boundary until recently held dear and believed to be essential for social stability,harmony and mutual trust-the civic consensus, has now been undermined from within.

Universities, the media and NGOs lead the great awokening and have now taken up the Covid restricted ‘new normal’ with alacrity and plenty of righteous noise.

This has led to invasion in the form of mass migration on a scale not seen before, matched by a dismissal of the value of western democratic norms and the spread of various vocal protest movements, whose noisy antics receive tacit approval from many governments: BLM; ER etc.

This has led to blatant double standards-witness the cops’ behaviour at the recent anti lockdown protest in London- and the suppression and dismissal of dissent.

The list of putative hate crimes grows ever longer, while punitive financial penalties are imposed for any who dare to challenge the ‘stop the spread and save lives’ mantra.

We are ripe for a take over I fear, and it won’t be pretty. Religious fundamentalists grow ever more assertive and numerous, while the woke west is busy condemning and repudiating itself, all in the name of ‘progress’.

139415 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 2, #116 of 1566 🔗

The barbarians have breached the city walls and it could only be a matter of time before society as we know it has collapsed.

139995 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Kate, #117 of 1566 🔗

Blimey! Didn’t .realise we were still on the Roman Empire, have to get back to you tomorrow as I’m down the pub at the moment. 🤔

139368 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Kate, 2, #118 of 1566 🔗

That is exactly what id do. Live as a monk.

139534 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #119 of 1566 🔗

The values and beliefs that drive civilisation are discredited once a society degenerates and betrays its ideals.

What interests me is how new ideals arise. Human beings need to believe in their culture. If not, it will fail.

I have thought of following the early Christians and abandoning a sinking ship. But it will not be the same ideal this time…what will it be?

139411 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Kate, 2, #120 of 1566 🔗

Very spot on and this is the reason why the aristocracy ended up dominating the church and especially the papacy. From the early Middle Ages until at least 1978 (with a few exceptions), the popes were mostly aristocrats (and Italian).

139058 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to karenovirus, 5, #121 of 1566 🔗

Blessed are the fish paste purveyors…

139389 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, #122 of 1566 🔗

I would like to ask if I could nick this for something I’m planning to post in my social media account. Will credit you and post a link to this blog.

140016 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, #123 of 1566 🔗

Yes of course, no need of a credit or link.

139745 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 1, #124 of 1566 🔗

And another 50% to go. All part of the Great Reset.

138589 annie, replying to annie, 31, #125 of 1566 🔗

BBC quotes helpful advice to those whose neighbours are caught behaving like human beings:

“When it comes to putting your perspective across, Mrs Weinstein says it’s about explaining the impact their actions are having on you.
“For example, you could say ‘I’ve noticed that you are having more than six people round to your house. When you do that I feel very nervous and upset because I feel that it is putting people at risk’,” she says.”

What would your response be?
Biker, if you’re around, I would just love to hear your suggestions, if you can write them without melting your keyboard.

138593 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 46, #126 of 1566 🔗

They should try that on the w/c woman I asked yesterday about who might snitch on their neighbours.

“I already have been, I’m one of seven kids and we’ve all got kids so when there’s a party there’s loads of us.
This woman next door looks down on me because I’m a single mum so when it was my youngest third birthday Friday everyone came round, we got a 80 foot garden so its easy.

She come knocking on my door saying
“Do you know how many people are in your garden, I think it’s more than six”

I told her “yeah more like 25, what’s your problem?” and she wanted to know if it was appropriate.
“Very appropriate thank you it’s my kids birthday and I’m not having you tell me which of her Cousins, Ants and Uncles can and can’t come over alright?”

Splendid Lady.

138596 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 2, #127 of 1566 🔗


138656 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to karenovirus, 5, #128 of 1566 🔗

Good for her!!!

138601 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to annie, 38, #129 of 1566 🔗

I would be inclined to say “I am sorry you feel nervous and upset. I would suggest you stop watching too much television – the BBC in particular – and do a little more research on a virus that has a 99.8% survival rate and impacts primarily on the 80+ age group. Your media stoked irrational fears have impacted your perception of risk. I suggest you go and have a lie down and try to relax”

id leave out the 80+ bit if they were of that age group maybe though.

139760 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sophie123, 2, #130 of 1566 🔗

You could also mention the likelihood of a brick through the window.

138608 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to annie, 1, #131 of 1566 🔗

To misquote @fatemperor : he gets makes his milkshake frothy

138622 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to annie, 18, #132 of 1566 🔗

What about the impact on all of us of the WALL TO FUCKING WALL propaganda??

138651 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to annie, 23, #133 of 1566 🔗

Noticed that some of our neighbours were having a gathering last night when I took the dogs out for a stroll.

It made me smile, lots.

138775 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to annie, 12, #134 of 1566 🔗

“I’ve noticed that you… ”

“I’ll stop you right there.”

Slams door

139580 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #135 of 1566 🔗

That would probably make them phone the cops to spite you.
Best to let them get it out of their system so they can just huff off home self-righteously.

139762 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #136 of 1566 🔗

Let them know that snitches do sometimes get a brick through the window.

138938 ▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to annie, 6, #137 of 1566 🔗

Given to equanimity as I am, I think my response would be something like this

“I FEEL LIKE your fear is based on stupidity, innumeracy, and a total inability to conceptualise rationally and proportionately. I FEEL LIKE your very existence is a direct consequence of the dysgenic government policy of paying the feeble-minded to breed at other people’s expense.I FEEL LIKE you should pour a gallon of petrol over yourself and play with matches.”

139104 ▶▶▶ Graham3, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 1, #138 of 1566 🔗

See Samuel Wormald circa 1927.

139483 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to annie, 3, #139 of 1566 🔗

In my coffee shop today we had 3 couples meet who obviously haven’t met in a long time. It was handshakes, hugs and even a kiss on the mouth between strangers!
Lovely to see!

139755 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 1, #140 of 1566 🔗

One answer to the neighbourhood Stasi snitch is a brick through the window.

138592 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 26, #141 of 1566 🔗

The only ‘circuit break’ in the pandemic we need now is from this cycle of bad data and bad science, say CARL HENEGHAN and TOM JEFFERSON


Peru has been on strict military lockdown since March but has the highest death rate in the world. With the truth we will win

138599 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 14, #142 of 1566 🔗

Good call.
As a linguist I’m particularly struck by the mention of how semantics is being prostituted in order to crank up the terror and reinforce the lies.
Newspeak, Covidspeak.

138782 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to annie, 12, #143 of 1566 🔗

It used to be the first job of governments in democratic societies, to do everything possible to avoid creating panic amongst the population. This government decided to turn that policy on its head by creating and then sustaining panic.

139041 ▶▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to petgor, 4, #144 of 1566 🔗

In most situations panic is more dangerous than the actual threat. In old cinemas they made sure that if the projection room caught fire, as early projectors often did, the people in the auditorium didn’t know. A crowd rushing out was far more dangerous than localised flames.

138662 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #145 of 1566 🔗

Excellent article. We need to reclaim the language and turn it on its head against the lockdownistas and mask zealots.

138594 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #146 of 1566 🔗

PETER HITCHENS: Can’t we put these power-mad clowns of the Johnson Junta in a nice rest home?


Peru has been on strict military lockdown since March but has the highest death rate in the world. With the truth we will win

138613 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #147 of 1566 🔗

Excellent piece by Peter as usual, I like the Ovaltine touch (reduced sugar content, natch)

Just one quibble, further down he mentions discovering the origin of the 2 meter rule from an unattributed ‘close to the top’ source.

“We knew that 1 metre was sufficient but didn’t think the public would understand it so we doubled it”.

Apart from that statement being ridiculous it was floating around t’internet at least three months ago if not longer.

138620 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 5, #148 of 1566 🔗

It’s worrying how far ahead of ‘the curve’ we all are on here. By the time everyone else has caught up, the government have moved onto their next sleight of hand and the dum dums fall for it every time.

139487 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 1, #149 of 1566 🔗

It always mad me laugh how 2 metres equalled 6ft.
It showed already their inability to understand simple maths.

139763 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #150 of 1566 🔗

But did the DM readers know about it three months ago?

140146 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, #151 of 1566 🔗

If they did they would have forgotten it by now.

138786 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #152 of 1566 🔗

“nice rest home” … How about Guantanamo?

139044 ▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #153 of 1566 🔗

From what I hear many of the homes that elderly people are confiend in have become not dissimilar to that during the panicdemic. No need to send Johnson and co. to the caribbean when they can be shoved in to hellholes in their own constituencies.

140147 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PastImperfect, #154 of 1566 🔗

Too nice.

138595 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 12, #155 of 1566 🔗

‘Anyone with healthcare experience knows the return to schools leads to a rise in the common cold’
Underpinning the chaos is a fundamental misunderstanding of the effects of seasonal viral pathogens


138602 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 12, #156 of 1566 🔗

No need for healthcare experience. You just need to be, or to have been, a parent, or teacher, or child.

138648 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 20, #157 of 1566 🔗

The main question is how is there a rise of common cold in schools if all the mask wearing rules schools have introduced actually prevent virus transmission?

138874 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #158 of 1566 🔗

terrain theory, terrain theory, terrain theory.

138597 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 11, #159 of 1566 🔗

Wancock’s ignorance is unbelievable if he thinks ‘doubling every week’ means exponential.
He probably thinks Pandemic means the Covid is going to be really really nasty to him when it gets him.
He is clearly also not well briefed or does not understand what he is being told by his advisers, tosser.

138600 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 9, #160 of 1566 🔗

I just hope that something is going to be really nasty to him when it gets him. And that it happens soon.

140150 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, #161 of 1566 🔗

There’s going to be a long queue to get at Hancock and of course there’s also Boris to deal with.

138603 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to karenovirus, 9, #162 of 1566 🔗

Do you think he is really that bad at maths, or is he just making it up and hoping WE are all that bad at maths we won’t spot his bullshit?

138621 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sophie123, 7, #163 of 1566 🔗

I’ve got a CSE Grade 1 in maths and I know more than him.
(I could do trigonometry and simultaneous equations when i was 12 but the maths teacher didn’t like me is my excuse).

138640 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Sophie123, 14, #164 of 1566 🔗

Not only does he not understand he is not following the rules on how to manage something with a complex technical input; you need to have the humility and good grace to ask the stupid obvious question to make sure you are getting it right.

He has made the classic error of arrogance, bravado and ignorance and steamed on without understanding the facts underpinning what he is managing.

Yesterday on this site I asked a stupid obvious question about the FPR, my thanks to all those who replied, as a result I think I have now got my head around the matter. That is what Hapless Hancock should be doing all the time challenging and asking the obvious questions but he is to arrogant and full of himself to do that.

138755 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #165 of 1566 🔗

Just said that in today’s email to my mp – the arrogance of the man has been clear from the outset, with that self-satisfied grin he had when he said how sorry he was that Shapps had to come back from his holiday. What a tosser.

139064 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #166 of 1566 🔗

But he has the Behavioural Insights Team to help him turn any mundane situation into horror, panic and fear.

139769 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #167 of 1566 🔗

I think Wankock understands exactly what he’s doing.

140154 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Steve Martindale, #168 of 1566 🔗

Hancock should actually be doing time in a cell not too far from Boris. What a pair of thickos and evil with it.

140151 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sophie123, #169 of 1566 🔗

He’s thick as well as evil.

138617 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 11, #170 of 1566 🔗

He’s a complete shithouse and needs to go, pronto

138633 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #171 of 1566 🔗

Malfeasance in public office – is that an arrestable crime?

138635 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 4, #172 of 1566 🔗

I’m hoping for some sort of comeuppance

138639 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 2, #173 of 1566 🔗

High Treason

139049 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to anon, 1, #174 of 1566 🔗

I have to wonder what drug they were high on when they decided lockdown was a viable strategy and that the downsides of it did not need to be considered.

139080 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Harry590, 2, #175 of 1566 🔗

In this inverted reality, downsides are seen as upsides. Simply break down all societal norms, waste as much money as you can as quickly as you can, and go for broke.

140157 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Harry590, #176 of 1566 🔗

It was a little something from Bill Gates. It worked a treat.

140156 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to anon, #177 of 1566 🔗

And the death sentence still applies. How very fitting.

140155 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Tom Blackburn, #178 of 1566 🔗

Go to jail, along with Boris.

138624 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to karenovirus, 13, #179 of 1566 🔗

Er, doubling every week does mean exponential, at least for the time period in question. The question is whether the numbers were in fact doubling every week or not. The answer, taken from the Covid-19 dashboard, is that they were not. On 13 August, the number of admissions to hospitals in England was 60; on 17 September it was 199. That’s a factor of 2.9 (less than 2 doublings) in five weeks. In fact the weekly multiplier from 13 to 20 August was x0.75 (a reduction), then x1.5, x1.0, x2.1, x1.4. So there was only one of those five weeks in which the numbers doubled, and one in which they went down. There does seem to be an upward trend since mid-August, probably at the rate of doubling every three weeks. By comparison, hospital admissions in the North-West region are roughly doubling about every two weeks, and in my region, the South-West, they are in decline.

138625 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #180 of 1566 🔗

Beat me to it Richard. Spot on.

138663 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Richard Pinch, 7, #181 of 1566 🔗

And we are not being told whether the covid admissions are for covid disease or because someone has, for instance, fallen off their horse and been found to have covid when admitted to hospital.

138783 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Will, 2, #182 of 1566 🔗

From the website

England data include people admitted to hospital who tested positive for COVID-19 in the 14 days prior to admission, and those who tested positive in hospital after admission. Inpatients diagnosed with COVID-19 after admission are reported as being admitted on the day prior to their diagnosis.


Definition of confirmed COVID-19 patients:

• For all relevant data items: a confirmed COVID-19 patient is any patient admitted to the trust who has recently (ie in the last 14 days) tested positive for COVID-19 following a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test.

• Patients who have been diagnosed via X-ray and assessment rather than a positive test should be counted as suspected (and not confirmed) COVID-19 patients.

• Report a patient as a confirmed COVID-19 patient in the sitrep for as long as they are being treated as a COVID-19 patient – so either they are being treated for COVID-19 caused symptoms or the trust is still taking the precautions they would take with a COVID-19 positive patient.

• A patient who has previously but not recently – (ie not in the last 14 days) had a positive COVID-19 test and is admitted for non-COVID-19 related treatment should not be counted as a confirmed COVID-19 patient.

It seems that the definition is more of a management tool to decide how many patients are in hospital who need treating as Covid-positive in terms of special treatment such as isolation, PPE and so on, as well as being treated for Covid. This is of course important for a hospital to know! But it is not so useful tracking the disease as such,

140158 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Will, #183 of 1566 🔗

You are not entitled to facts.

138697 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Richard Pinch, #184 of 1566 🔗

No doubling every week is linear growth

138740 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to 6097 Smith W, 5, #185 of 1566 🔗

1,2,4,8,16 is doubling over a set period of time or space is exponential. You’ve wine a prize in a competition and can either have £1000000 or you can have 1 penny on the first day, 2 p on the second 4p on the third and so on for 28 days, which option would you choose and why?

139866 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to p02099003, 2, #186 of 1566 🔗

Well seems as though going for the penny on the first day would give £342177.28 more. However, given the current state of affairs, specifically the mission creep and moving goalposts, I’ll take the £1000000 now please.

139874 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to ikaraki, 1, #187 of 1566 🔗

Oh wait, if you get all the pennies each day, and we don’t just count an increase in population, then you get £1684354.55 extra. Still take the £1000000 today.

138734 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #188 of 1566 🔗

Actually any increase rate above 1 that results in a geometric progression would produce a positive exponential curve, if it’s less than one it will be a negative exponential curve.A real exponential curve is based on the multiplying factor being ‘e’, converting that data into natural logs would result in a straight line. The proof of an exponential growth is plotting the log of the data against time, this will be a straight line. Any deviation from a best fit straight line means it’s not exponential.

138636 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to karenovirus, 5, #189 of 1566 🔗

Also, simply looking at admissions is a blinkered approach to hospital stats, hospitals are not ‘The Hotel California’ you can be discharged and leave. So he also needs to look at total numbers in hospital.
For England; Covid 19 cases in hospital 1st Sept 472 19th Sept 1048
Patients on ventilators 1st sept 59 19th sept 123
So just over doubling in 19 days, given the English population is around 56 million those numbers are hardly a cause for panic, more a slight autumn ripple than any sort of wave. the NHS should be OK to cope.

138739 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #190 of 1566 🔗

There’s also the question of how many of those are people who were admitted because of Coronavirus compared to those who were admitted for something else and subsequently tested positive (even assuming those weren’t false positives).

140159 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #191 of 1566 🔗

One thing we can be sure of is that Emperor Boris’s gang will still be fiddling the figures big time.

139495 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, #192 of 1566 🔗

If you mean Wancock as in Hancock, he supposedly had it in March when Boris was ill.
I guess they were both replaced with Stepford robots then. But who controls them?

140160 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Silke David, #193 of 1566 🔗

Bill Gates.

140148 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 1, #194 of 1566 🔗

The man is clearly is thicker than pig shit, his advisors must be having so much fun.

138604 Jon G, replying to Jon G, 5, #195 of 1566 🔗

Can someone help me? I lament the Covid response as much as the next sane person, but this false positive rate seems very important.
If the PCR FPR is 0.8%, surely the rate/10k would never drop below 80 in places where PCR testing is the primary measure of testing.
But hasn’t it been well below that rate in loads of places that use primarily PCR testing?

138626 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Jon G, 5, #196 of 1566 🔗

I think the false positive rate is debated in scientific circles and as this is biology you do not automatically get the exact false positive number in every batch of tests. I think the UK is doing 230,000 tests per day if the False positive rate is between .4 and .8 then the number of false positives would be somewhere between 920 and 1840, with the virus levels as low as they are that is clearly more than enough to grossly over inflate the figures.

138647 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #197 of 1566 🔗

Positive rates average 1.6/10000 across UK at the mo, so a positive rate well below the false positive range you suggest.
If (as the prev comment suggested) the ONS aren’t using data from PCR testing to inform policy, shouldn’t we take that into consideration?

138742 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Steve Martindale, 7, #198 of 1566 🔗

The Government’s own data puts the false positive rate at somewhere between 0.8% and 4.0% based on 43 different tests.


Hancock, in picking the lower bound, is being more than disingenuous.

140162 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Andrew Fish, #199 of 1566 🔗

“Hancock, in picking the lower bound, is being more than disingenuous.”

That cannot be repeated too often.

138628 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jon G, 2, #200 of 1566 🔗

Basically, that’s correct. The ONS numbers are based on a test with a much lower FPR, it seems. Look in yesterdays comments for a thread in which I discuss that in detail.

138645 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #201 of 1566 🔗

Oh OK that’s good. Sorry to be a pain but do you have some kind of link to that info or anything?
If their figures aren’t based on PCR test doesn’t that mean there’s not that much of a problem with the PCR false positive?

138905 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Jon G, 2, #202 of 1566 🔗

The problem is the Government are basing policy on Pillar 2 cases (which uses PCR tests) not on the more reliable ONS figures.

138943 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to zacaway, 1, #203 of 1566 🔗

I think there’s something in that. As I point out in another comment today, the PHE figures are essentially NHS hospital management information — how many patient with Covid do we have to deal with rather than how many patients are here because of Covid . That sort of “Protect the NHS” thinking seems persistent.

138940 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jon G, 1, #204 of 1566 🔗

No, it is a PCR test. From preprint

The nose and throat self-swabs were couriered directly to the National Biosample Centre at Milton Keynes, where the samples were tested for the presence of SARS-CoV-2 using reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) as part of the national testing programme.

138660 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #205 of 1566 🔗

If you could summarise again I’d be grateful! Or give a pointer to where you posted it yesterday (key word or something). Thanks.

There were so many posts on this yesterday, and lots of them needed to be studied in detail. I don’t know about everyone else, but I only have so much covid reading time each day, and there’s so much of it right now I can’t keep up.

John G’s point is an important one to understand though.

138768 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, 2, #206 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for that. There is a GoS paper GOS: Impact of false positives and negatives, 3 June 2020 which says

It is important to remember that laboratory testing verifies the analytical sensitivity and analytical specificity of the RT-PCR tests. They represent idealised testing. In a clinical or community setting there may be inefficient sampling, lab contamination, sample degradation or other sources of error that will lead to increased numbers of false positives or false negatives. The diagnostic sensitivity and diagnostic specificity of a test can only be measured in operational conditions

A distinction that will be of major importance is assessing the reliability or even feasibility of a mass testing programme in which individual members of the public carry out their own tests. (The GoS paper of course does not address the issue of people having an incentive to actually cheat on their tests.)

They go on to say

The RT-PCR assays used for the UK’s COVID-19 testing programme have been verified by PHE, and show over 95% sensitivity and specificity. This means that under laboratory conditions, these RT-PCR tests should never show more than 5% false positives or 5% false negatives.

and, more worryingly,

We have been unable to find any data on the operational false positive and false negative rates in the UK COVID-19 RT-PCR testing programme.

They proceed to carry out that analysis and conclude

An attempt has been made to estimate the likely false-positive rate of national COVID-19 testing programmes by examining data from published external quality assessments (EQAs) for RT-PCR assays for other RNA viruses carried out between 2004-2019 [7]. Results of 43 EQAs were examined, giving a median false positive rate of 2.3% (interquartile range 0.8-4.0%).

Executive summary: operational test FPR is between 1-4%.

In another neck of the woods, SAGE estimate that after six months of weekly testing, 41% of the population will have received a false positive result. Since the 25th root of 1-0.41 is 0.9799, it seems very likely that this is based on 98% specificity, ie 2% test FPR.

In the current context, of course, even achieving a test FPR as low as 2% (which seems to me unlikely in practice) against a prevalence of 0.1% means an evidential value of 3% for a positive test result, that is, 97% of positive results are in fact negative. This is of course disastrously low, and in my view puts the whole mass testing programme into serious doubt.

There’s also a BMJ paper Interpreting a covid-19 test result which explains the evidential value in terms of a 2% FPR (and a surprising range of FNR, from 2% to 29%). However this is advice in a clinical context, where the population under test are much more likely to be positive than the population as a whole, and so the evidential value of a positive result is correspondingly high.

138769 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #207 of 1566 🔗

Next we come to the ONS COVID-19 Infection Survey (Pilot): methods and further information which states

We know the specificity of our test must be very close to 100% as the low number of positive tests in our study means that specificity would be very high even if all positives were false. For example, in the period from 1 June to 12 July, 50 of the 112,776 total samples tested positive. Even if all these positives were false, specificity would still be 99.96%.

This is expanded in a Medrxiv preprint (DOI 10.1101/2020.07.06.20147348).

While false-positives may be a concern with a low prevalence – potentially leading to an overestimation of the percentage of truly infected persons that are asymptomatic – the low number of positive tests in our study overall is also reassuring since it indicates that the specificity of the test is very high.

This is far better specificity than other studies, so we have to presume that these tests are being done differently. But I’m not sufficiently expert on the testing process to say why or how.
If — and this is a big if — the “moonshot” test can achieve this degree of specificity, then the evidential level rises to around 50%: in other words, the positive test result would come down to about twice the true positive rate. This might be considered tolerable. But it would mean carrying out the sort of tests ONS is commissioning scaled up by a factor of a thousand.

Finally we need to know what the cause of the false positive is. If, as I suspect, based on the GOS paper, the incorrect results are largely operational (incorrectly handled samples and so on) then successive tests on samples taken by different trained operatives and sent to different labs should be independent. On the other hand, if the false positive tests are incorrectly responding to something about the subject which is not the virus but somehow triggering the positive result, then successive tests will presumably produce the same result. One example, of course, is residual genetic material from a long-passed infection. I don’t know of any research into this question, and it may be hard to do.

138805 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Richard Pinch, #208 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for this, some of which I’d seen previously and some of which I’d not.
When I present this to my lockdown fanatic mates, they say ‘how come the UK average positive case rate is running at 16/100,000 then?’
Less than 0.02%, when the PCR test is the most used test and we’d have to assume there are some genuine cases.
I’m not arguing with you, you’re obviously well informed, but I genuinely don’t know how to address this point – I expect I’m missing something.

138812 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jon G, #209 of 1566 🔗

You pose a good question, and one which I don’t know the answer to. The ONS report admits that they do not know the exact FPR of their tests either. As they say, it must be below the positive rate they’re getting. So for some reason their tests have a much lower FPR.

But for the purposes of planning a mass testing programme, it seems clear that SAGE are planning on the basis of 2% FPR at a scale a thousand times greater then the ONS laboratory currently handles.

138826 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #210 of 1566 🔗

Beat my next post by a few seconds.

This seems to me to be a very important thing to understand.

When they quote the cases per 100k for each region, do we know they derive this? I’m not even sure which pillar they are referring to.

Every piece of data on covid seems to be based on sand, and sinking in a mire of obfuscation.

138873 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #211 of 1566 🔗

ONS have their own separate testing programme. I think it’s officially Pillar 4.

138887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #212 of 1566 🔗

Ok, I think that’s the letter offers of tests I’ve received in the last few days.

Not that I’m taking them up on their generous prize offer of a two-week confinement with a large fine if I desist.

So maybe the ONS are processing, or at least interpreting, the Pillar 4 tests differently from whoever s doing 1s and 2s. I wonder if they are adjusting for an FPR? Hence when they quote 10 infections per 100k, that actually means c. 100 +ves.

138916 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #213 of 1566 🔗

When they say infections, they mean the number of infections as inferred from the test results. See COVID-19 Infection Survey (Pilot): methods and further information for details.

138895 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #214 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for engaging with this and being so clear.
With PCR positive rates running so low I think the problem with false positives is overstated as things stand, but well worth keeping in mind for reasons you’ve illustrated so well.
Also as you point out, rates this low are an anomaly when it comes to this type of testing in the field, so god knows why we’re seeing them here.
An obvious follow on question: with so little Covid why on Earth is a second lockdown even under discussion??
Thanks again

139020 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jon G, #215 of 1566 🔗

Yes, thanks again RP. Mrs TJN (who has a maths background) is also probing the ONS site, but she’s sinking in the mire.

Jon G – yes I agree, it seems to me that as things stand the problem with FPRs may be being overstated. Perhaps Hancock was inadvertently correct in his reply on LBC???

It’s all such a mess, but based on this stuff we’re destroying ourselves as a society.

138819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jon G, 1, #216 of 1566 🔗

Yes, I still can’t get my head around this.

RP – please treat me as a particularly dumb student!

I do remember reading those posts yesterday, but didn’t relate them to the question here.

If we do 100,000 tests, and we have a 1% FPR (and ignore FNR), then surely we would expect, on average, 100 +ve results? (Even with no covid.)

But the observed results (and I’m all for empirical evidence) often show far fewer +ves than this

Sorry for being so dumb, but I feel like Matt Hancock on LBC.

138871 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #217 of 1566 🔗

You’re quite right, that is the prevalence is low, that is, almost everyone is negative, then positive results will come mainly from false positives. It also means that the false positive rate cannot be more than the proportion of positive test, since they form part of the positive test numbers, alongside the true positives.

So you are quite right to ask how a 2% FPR can yield a positive test result of less than 2%. And that is a good question — it cannot. The ONS put it this way: since they are detecting 0.1% positive rates in their sample, they estimate the FPR in their tests as less than 0.1%, and indeed they think it might be as low as 0.04%. This FPR is astonishingly low compared to other tests, and it’s a genuine discrepancy which I for one do not understand. Indeed, you may detect a slight undercurrent of puzzlement in the ONS preprint!

That ONS preprint describes other statistical analysis the ONS have done to illuminate this point, which I have not yet myself fully understood …

138881 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #218 of 1566 🔗

Thanks so much for taking the time with this.

If you don’t understand it, I certainly won’t.

I wonder if Prof. Heneghan will turn his attention to this.

As you posted yesterday, I’m inclined to put some credence on ONS material ( despite it being government).

Astonishingly, after over six months now, every form of data on covid seems to be a complete mess.

138903 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to TJN, #219 of 1566 🔗

This is pure speculation, but the ONS tests may be differently calibrated. From what little I know, the test has a certain number of “cycles” and the more cycles the more likely they are to detect very small amounts of viral material.

In a clinical setting, you want to avoid false negatives: that is, the risk comes from not treating patients for a disease they really have — and which you suspect already that they do have. So you would be inclined to set the testing parameters in favour of detection even of small amounts of evidence. While there may be effects of false positives, treating someone for a disease they don’t have might well be considered less serious than not treating them for one which they do. And of course in a clinical setting you can test again when you like.

So it may be that a relatively high 2% FPR is the price you pay for having a low FNR (said to be around 2% in the GOS paper), which is what you would want to have in a clinical setting.

But as I say, this is speculation.

138929 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard Pinch, #220 of 1566 🔗

Yes, maybe the threshold is set differently.

I do wonder if the quoted figures per 100k include extrapolation through modelling.

But the whole problem is still shrouded in fog.

Perhaps Piers Morgan should ask Matt Hancock about it on GMB next week.

140169 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard Pinch, #221 of 1566 🔗

That all may be fine in a clinical setting, but it is worse than useless when testing in the field, with the so called cases numbers hovering around the FPR.

Johnson and Hancock are clearly keen to keep the dodgy Covid pot boiling and at the moment the unfit for purpose PCR test is all they have got. We are apparently being screwed mightily and we need to get to the bottom of why they are pulling this massive stunt. It may seem a stretch, but I very much doubt that the reason has much to do with their all too obvious incompetence.

139507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Richard Pinch, #222 of 1566 🔗

The 2% FPR can come from calibration in that samples are run and the worst-case is 2% or the median is. In reality the test may be better.

But the FPR will dictate whether you bother to use them in the first place. Because you won’t know until you test.

139052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to TJN, #223 of 1566 🔗

“But the observed results (and I’m all for empirical evidence) often show far fewer +ves than this” Would typically imply a lower false positive rate for tests than the assumed (1%). Even with a false positive rate lower than this though you’ll still get many more false positives than real positives if you test for something rare enough.

139342 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Harry590, #224 of 1566 🔗

Yes, but I’m wondering whether the observed, or quoted figures, or at least some of them, have already been adjusted for FPR? Or whether there’s inference from modelling here?

I just don’t know. And I don’t know any more whether Dr Yeadon’s analysis today is therefore slightly misleading. I’m certainly not saying that it is, simply that I don’t understand what’s going on.

And I’m quite sure that Hancock doesn’t know, still less Johnson, or Cummings.

138832 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jon G, #225 of 1566 🔗

I’m feel as if I’m back at uni or school and the lecturer/teacher is explaining something to me for the umpteenth time, but I still don’t understand, so just say that I do because I don’t want to appear hopelessly stupid …

138815 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, #226 of 1566 🔗

Thank you for this – it’s excellent.

138935 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to matt, #227 of 1566 🔗

I agree

138958 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #228 of 1566 🔗

Thanks — it’s a pleasure. It’s something I wanted to settle in my own mind anyway and discussing it in this forum has certainly helped me to do so.

139106 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #229 of 1566 🔗

“In another neck of the woods, SAGE estimate that after six months of weekly testing, 41% of the population will have received a false positive result.”

So did they therefore conclude that Moonshine would be a good idea?
Promoting a policy that would lead to two fifths of the entire population being incarcerated at home for a fortnight for not being ill (probably under threat of £10K fine for breach). And to spend £100B into the bargain?

Is their own estimate in print, so that it can be referenced and quoted I wonder?

139388 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #230 of 1566 🔗

That particular paper was described as “leaked”, so I’m going by a press report. I have not seen the paper. I hope that it at least mentions the huge unreliability and its consequences.

139272 ▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Richard Pinch, #231 of 1566 🔗

If you have the same rate of FNR and FPR does this not cancel each other out?

139380 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ GAW, replying to BJJ, #232 of 1566 🔗

Baynes theorem gives you the answer here https://youtu.be/jDecehzaVQU

139385 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BJJ, 2, #233 of 1566 🔗

Only if you have equal proportions of true positive and true negative in the population under test. Suppose, for example, that you mass test a population of 10million with 0.1% prevalence, ie 0.1% true positive, 99.9% true negative and your test has 2% FPR and 2% FNR The tests results would be as follows

True positive (10,000) with true positive result (98%): 9,800
True negative (9,990,000) with false positive result (2%): 199,800
True positive (10,000) with false negative result (2%): 200
True negative (9,990,000) with true negative result (98%): 9,790,200

So of the 9,800+199,800 = 209,600 positive results, 9,800 are true: 4.7%
And of the 200+9,790,200 = 9,790,400 negative results, 9,790,200 are true: 99.997%

So the FPR and the FNR for the tests are the same: but the evidential value of the results are wildly different.

138605 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 8, #234 of 1566 🔗

I will repeat what I have said the last few days and doesn’t appear to have been taken into account even on this website.

The number of deaths shown in Spain for example is the number WITH COVID, not FROM COVID. But it’s not even with COVID, it’s WITH A POSITIVE TEST.

Latest figures show about 13% of tests are positive, and around 6% of daily deaths are tested positive. So the figures show that the percentage of people dieing with a positive test is lower than the percentage in the population that has a positive test. COVID is not good for your health, so the tests and death figures are completely meaningless.


If 13% of people were left handed and 6% of deaths were of left handed people, would that show that being left handed killed 6% of the population ???

138610 ▶▶ Jon G, replying to Laurence, 1, #235 of 1566 🔗

Which latest figures show 13% of tests are positive? That’s a rate of 1300/10000. Isn’t the uk average 1.6/10000?

138611 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to Jon G, 1, #236 of 1566 🔗

These are the Spanish figures – look at the Spanish ministry of health website. I thought it was fairly clear that my comment was about Spain ??

138643 ▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Laurence, 1, #237 of 1566 🔗

Maybe you’re thinking 13% of tests are positive because across the pandemic 13% of the Spanish population has tested positive?

138644 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to Jon G, #238 of 1566 🔗

No, I’m thinking it because it was 13% for the week to the 17/9

138652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Laurence, #239 of 1566 🔗

Cases/100,000 averages 259 across Spain at the moment – less than 0.3%

139174 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to Jon G, #240 of 1566 🔗

The latest figures are shown here, which is an update from the previous figures:

no of cases diagnosed in the last 7 days to 18/9: 58,347
no of tests in 7 days to 18/9: 650,402

Therefore positive test percentage = 8.97%

Total deaths in last 7 days with COVID 432, or 61.7 per day

Total deaths in Spain overall: around 1150 per day

Therefore percentage of deaths with positive tests = 5.36%, far lower than the percentage of people who tested positive.

Your figure above is dividing a numerator of a sample by a denominator of the whole population, so is completely meaningless and of course is very low.

138632 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Laurence, 5, #241 of 1566 🔗

Good post not at all to disagree just to comment and put on record the guardian are reporting surge giant increase in infections – which is wrong. Essentially the scientific vommunication language to the public has been ruined by msm over cases. Their words are now meaningless and only serve to cause panic and danger.

138686 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 5, #242 of 1566 🔗

True. But if every Grauniad reader self-isolated under its bed until the end of Time, the rest of the country wouldn’t be a penny the worse.

139319 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to annie, 2, #243 of 1566 🔗

Or if they joined you all here, as have I (a former Guardian reader). I like to think that the country is infinitesimally better off with me here, rather than there. And I’m probably not the only Guardian reader here, just a more vocal one.

138634 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Laurence, 1, #244 of 1566 🔗

I take your point, but I’m afraid I ignored your post on this earlier because I simply didn’t believe that 13% of tests in Spain were +ve, compared to our 0.1%.
Are we comparing like with like?
At only a 0.1% positive rate, (albeit mainly false), testing shouldn’t have much impact in distorting UK death figures.

139181 ▶▶▶ Laurence, replying to BTLnewbie, #245 of 1566 🔗

In the UK we have the ONS tests of a representative sample each week, which show .11% or roughly 1 in 900 have COVID, which are the ones you refer to.

We also have the entirely separate tests of the people who apply to be tested, and there are around 170,000 of these per day, and yesterday for example 4,422 people tested positive, around 2.6%.

This figure is the one that should be compared.

However, both this and the Spanish figures are virtually meaningless and the best estimate (in the UK) is 0.11% – I’m not aware of any comparable figure in Spain.

138606 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 23, #246 of 1566 🔗

No Prime Minister as ever looked so worn out and clueless. He looks like a hostage to the SAGE people. Every Prime Minister has crises to deal with but he has blown this out of all proportion.

When Covid 19 took off in Italy, and Lombardy, I soon discovered that the deaths were no worse that season flu there a couple of years earlier.

Did Boris Johnson know this? Did he bother to find out?

138614 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #247 of 1566 🔗

If it were a factory, the workers would be trying to figure a way to oust these jokers as they are running it into the ground

138618 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 12, #248 of 1566 🔗

No, he asked mumsnet what to do

138612 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #249 of 1566 🔗

Can anyone confirm this report and if so, can we arrange a collection for this man’s family please? 😞


138616 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #250 of 1566 🔗

Sorry can’t help you but I do like the Bill Gates placard in the comments.

139057 ▶▶ Harry590, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #251 of 1566 🔗

Maybe highlight this to Toby over email, see if he can do any digging to establish if the cops have committed murder.

140055 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Harry590, #252 of 1566 🔗


138615 Roger Butterworth, replying to Roger Butterworth, 41, #253 of 1566 🔗

The thing that saddens me most about this ridiculous situation is the long term harm that it is doing to peoples trust in government and compliance with the law.

These laws are so obviously stupid and the government is so obviously lying to us I will be unlikely to trust them again and I will only comply when I am forced to do so.

139497 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Roger Butterworth, 2, #254 of 1566 🔗

This may already have been foreseen by those in government.

My concern is that given the revelation of the nature of political power in the UK – that it is a tyranny – we cannot go back to any kind of democracy.

It may be military dictatorship from now on.

138623 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #255 of 1566 🔗

Nigel Farage Tweets

The government’s test and trace programme has been a total failure, they are useless.

Yet now we are threatened with massive fines and encouraged to spy on our neighbours.


10:22 pm · 19 Sep 2020·
74 Quote Tweets

138627 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 5, #256 of 1566 🔗

Could do with JC joining forces with him to box the left off too. Then we gobble the centre like Boris at a buffet

138630 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 31, #257 of 1566 🔗

But it isn’t madness.

It is tyranny dressed up as incompetence.

For those who doubt that or see conspiracy everywhere that provokes an uncomfortable response, look in the sage minutes. These were made public after Simon Dolan’s FOI.

They have been featured on the UK Column. These feature the comments on the fact that the public are not sufficient scared and the need to ramp up the fear. That is evidence of govt tyranny.

How is anything else?

138767 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 7, #258 of 1566 🔗

That sage note about the public being insufficiently scared dates from the very beginning of lockdown 1 and it’s still being played now as they introduce lockdown 2.

138966 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 6, #259 of 1566 🔗

If people who think the pandemic is a hoax are crackpots, how do you explain SAGE saying the public were not scared enough and the fear had to be ramped up which is exactly what you would expect if there was no pandemic. In a real pandemic SAGE would not need to install fear.

139048 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to ianric, #260 of 1566 🔗


139068 ▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to ianric, 4, #261 of 1566 🔗

In every recent previous pandemic people haven’t been all that scared, and government felt no need to make them so. Spanish flu looks terriblein hindsight, but at the time it was not the top news story. Many of the population didn’t know it was happening. In all the pandemic planning our country had done over the last few decades the question was how to keep fear low so that people could go about normal lives and keep our country running. I am confident that the covid-19 pandemic is real, but it is clearly mild, why there was a desire to increase fear is something I can’t be sure of, but it definitely looks suspicious.

138631 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 19, #262 of 1566 🔗

There is a lot to be depressed about in today’s LS summary, but there is a glimmer of hope:

Sir Graham Brady Leads Rebellion Against Renewal of Coronavirus Act
I have already written once to Sir Graham and received a thoughtful response from his office. Today I will write again and give him my strong support. Could I possibly encourage others to do the same?

138693 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Basileus, 9, #263 of 1566 🔗

Done – first time ever written to an MP – even a brief e-mail urging support has to help – please write to him everyone. Interestingly the local MPs here are in press today arguing that further measures aren’t needed – trying to o distance themselves from own governments policy

138728 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard, 3, #264 of 1566 🔗

And about bloody time.

138770 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 1, #265 of 1566 🔗

Still not a squeak from my Socialist Member

138845 ▶▶▶▶ Richard, replying to annie, 1, #266 of 1566 🔗

The MPs distancing themselves or me writing to MP !! One them comes from a family with significant local retail business and must be seeing the impact on those

138807 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to Richard, 1, #267 of 1566 🔗

Second this. Have written to him twice. Positive response from his office even though I’m not a constituent

138892 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Cbird, #268 of 1566 🔗

I’ve dropped him a line – mentioning how useless my MP seems to be in comparison.

138705 ▶▶ sceptickat, replying to Basileus, 2, #269 of 1566 🔗

Do you have an email address we can write to please?

138776 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to sceptickat, #270 of 1566 🔗

All MPs listed on here:


Brady never answered or acknowledged any mail from me on this subject.

138813 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to sceptickat, 1, #271 of 1566 🔗
139021 ▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Cbird, #272 of 1566 🔗

This is the one.

139072 ▶▶ Harry590, replying to Basileus, #273 of 1566 🔗

Done, just a short statement of support but maybe he’ll respond to me. Don’t mind if he ignores my email though, if he needs to put more time towards getting this government to relinquish illegal powers. My own crook of a local MP never replies to anything..

138638 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 5, #274 of 1566 🔗

Clashes scene between police and protesters during anti- #lockdown protest at #Trafalgar Square in #London , #Britain


138664 ▶▶ Basics, replying to 2 pence, 9, #275 of 1566 🔗

Thank you for posting that 2p. Important to see the nature of the violence. The crap-hats (police) clearly were effecting some kind of physical assault on people who were not agressing towards them. The crowd were in rational control of themselves throughout from what I can see. One man in police uniform appears to let his mask slip, I believe he learned a lesson.

Misjudged antagonistic police actions trying to ignite a battle is what it looks like, the papers may spin.

Concerned by reports of a man who possibly died yesterday perhaps as a result of Met police charging into the crowd. Was it this man or another who was unconcious at Trafalger Square following a police charge into the protestors?

138774 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to 2 pence, 3, #276 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for those, seems to have been lot bigger than yesterdays vids showed.

Police in 2nd vid last link looked scared being confronted non violent protesters. Yelling “get back” when they were the ones who had gone forward.

Horses too and no soft uniforms unlike when interacting with previous mainly peaceful protesters.

138795 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to 2 pence, 4, #277 of 1566 🔗

Reminded of Orgreave and the Miner’s Strike.

138646 hotrod, replying to hotrod, -5, #278 of 1566 🔗

Picking up a debate from last night when I asked a genuine question about the £10k fines.

1. Not sure I get the objection to the £10k fine if you don’t isolate.

Surely if you do test and you have been unwell then it’s common sense anyway.

If you there is nothing wrong with you then you won’t be tested anyway so what’s the problem.

What am I missing?

2. If you are genuinely sick and tested positive you are at home 14 days.

If people are going out despite being unwell that is actually curtailing freedoms for the rest of us.

3. Not disagreeing at all, but if only 20% of those who are supposed to be isolating are isolating then that is contributing to liberties being taken away from the rest of us.

4. Those who know me know that i am a regular contributor and in a desperate state right now, I just want this to end.

So to me i am shocked that people who should be following medical advice are NOT and that is actually extending this fiasco.

5. For once I think this is a workable plan.

Appreciate that most won’t agree!

138650 ▶▶ tonys, replying to hotrod, 10, #279 of 1566 🔗

I understand and share your despair, I just see every measure you have described as a part of the insanity not a route out of it.

139077 ▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to tonys, 2, #280 of 1566 🔗

For some measures, masks mostly, I wondered if a minor inconvenience cold be a way out of the panic, but the latter has been the case. I wondered if the rule of 6 would be where the government would stop, but having not even had time to see its effect they’re adding more measures. If our government were rational, if they’d take small measures only, we could perhaps obey them. But they aren’;t and they don’t every measure is just a stepping stone to the next. The only way out of this is herd immunity, and it needs to be reached as soon as possible (although it might be alread).

138661 ▶▶ Jon G, replying to hotrod, 6, #281 of 1566 🔗

Reasonable post and we all share your sense of despair but there are a couple of things I’d consider, in a very broad sense:

Mainly what’s the overall plan! If it’s to limp through for an indefinite period in the hope that someone will develop a safe and effective vaccine, then yeah – trying to minimise viral spread seems obvious.

But with a rapidly expanding data pool we can see more clearly the nature of the virus; it poses a serious risk only really to elderly people with serious pre existing morbidities.

When that is weighed against all the costs (domestically and globally – including inevitable increases in infant mortality across poorer parts of the world) of the suppression approach, then it seems better to many people to follow the collective immunity approach that Sweden favoured.

In which scenario actually spreading the virus if you’re ill wouldn’t be the worst thing – it would reduce the period that the genuinely vulnerable have to isolate.

If, democratically, and having been given good information, the UK population had opted for the suppression approach, then maybe I could live with £10k fines.

But in this context I find them unacceptable.

138771 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Jon G, 7, #282 of 1566 🔗

I would add to your post, vaccine that people are willing to take and give to their children. When Handy Cock talks about “the cavalry” I don’t think he understands that everyone regards it as enemy forces.

139156 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Will, 2, #283 of 1566 🔗

Yes indeed. Stephen Hahn, FDA commisioner has talked about not approving any vaccine unless it is ‘50% effective’… .
In the UK, the intention appears to be to bypass regular approval altogether.

There is no indication or suggestion that any of the vaccine candidates will provide complete protection from infection (sterilising immunity).
A vaccine may help reduce symptoms by confining viral infection to the upper respiratory tract.
Possibly. In some recipients.
A vaccine may reduce viral replication. But that does not mean that you are not infectious to others.
So in terms of efficacy, a vaccine is unlikely to offer any benefit over and above a normal functioning immune system, which efficiently prevents symptomatic illness in a large majority of cases.
From what I have seen, all the vaccine developers are talking about a need for at least two shots. If it is like the flu, annual reformulations may be required as the virus mutates (or may just be implemented regardless).

Then there is the safety profile. Which really should be called the toxicity profile.
We have little information on this, but what we do know is not a source of reassurance.

But in line with your point about the cavalry, I don’t believe that the primary requirement of a vaccine was that it needed to work.

138701 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to hotrod, 11, #284 of 1566 🔗

I do see where you’re coming from, hotrod. I am baffled that someone with symptoms who voluntarily presented themselves for testing would not then isolate (motivations beyond me). However I will just offer a couple of thoughts since a huge number of people are not in that category

Let’s assume someone who feels entirely fit and well is self-employed is contact traced and told to isolate after being in a restaurant with someone who later tested positive (quite possibly on the other side of the restaurant). They now have to stay home (as does any other breadwinner in the family and kids miss school) for the entire period and do not qualify for a test. Personally I understand that they wouldn’t.

Another scenario would be for a family in a ‘high concern’ area where doorstep tests are being carried out. You’re not ill and neither is anyone else in the house. In fact you don’t even know anyone who has actually been very unwell. But you’re all under house arrest. You live in cramped conditions with no outside space. Will this feel fair or proportionate?

If I am told to stay home as a result of either of those scenarios (but I am not ill) I will know there is a very high chance that there was a false positive involved in the scenario. My situation would be likely a result of a catastrophic, innumerate and indefensible policy. In fact the first situation wouldn’t apply to me. Last week I had a day’s work for the first time since March. I don’t have spare cash to spend on social activities right now Would I obey the rule? I’m not sure. I would certainly break it to walk my dogs which would involve not going within 50 yards of another human – this would theoretically land me with a fine.

Please don’t feel I’m having a pop at you. I just think it’s not as simple as you suggest and that our collective problem is not driven by people not self-isolating.

138714 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to hotrod, 1, #285 of 1566 🔗

If someone is ill with any infectious disease then the can be forced into quarantine under the public health act of 1982 ( i May be wrong about the title and year, but it was definitely the 1980’s).

138730 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to p02099003, 2, #286 of 1566 🔗


139083 ▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to matt, 1, #287 of 1566 🔗

Of course.

138731 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to p02099003, 3, #288 of 1566 🔗

And under lockdown, every person who is healthy can be forced into isolation. Big deal.

138772 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to p02099003, 6, #289 of 1566 🔗

Councils have admitted they won’t use the 1984 legislation as they have to follow due process of law and pay compensation.

Thye will use the S.I.s as these do not have these legals safeguards nor requirement to pay compensation.

I posted it a few days ago when I got a FOI appeal back.

138828 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #290 of 1566 🔗

Same reason the USA doesn’t say quarantine, ‘shelter in place’ avoids paying compensation.

139669 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Awkward Git, #291 of 1566 🔗

This is Lord Sumption’s argument that the 2020 act is unlawful as it uses the wrong legislation to justify it.

138792 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to hotrod, 2, #292 of 1566 🔗

They said all contacts have to self-isolate too. They maybe completely healthy.

138896 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to JulieR, 2, #293 of 1566 🔗

And it’s also the case that you could be, in fact very likely are, a false positive. Obviously not sure why you would get tested on that basis, but if they ever did ramp the tests up to cover the whole population you can guarantee they would be mandatory and the fines would remain. SAGE’s estimates are that 41% of the population would be locked down in error over any six-month period. It’s the false positives extending this fiasco, not the genuine cases.

138799 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to hotrod, 4, #294 of 1566 🔗

They could even now shelve their asinine Covid Zero policy and go for Herd Immunity as they should have 6 months ago.
Elderly/Vulnerable shield with government funding. Everybody else back to work back to school, college, university, nightlife get out there and get infected. That way you might be able to visit Nan for Xmas.

Would mean getting rid of johnson, ferguson, whitty, hunt, wancock and the rest of the Covid Appeasement gang first.

139095 ▶▶ Harry590, replying to hotrod, 3, #295 of 1566 🔗

It is not “take a test and get imprisoned at home”, its “if you get a phone call from the track and traitors and get told you might be infected then you are trapped”. Doing it only for those who get tested might provide a deterrent to testing, but as it stands this allows anyone to be effectively jailed at any time on the basis of a phone call, it could even be you get phoned because they mistyped the numer they were dialling. This crap must not be obeyed.

P.S. point 4 of your post. For measures like hand washing, not getting too close to crowds, not coughing over people… I can quite agree with you. But measures like these extreme fines are intolerable. We need to be copying Sweden, they are taking individual responsibility and hygiene precatuions, but they are not panicing and they are confident they won’t get a second wave. The way out of this is to live as close to normally as possible, and let herd immunity be reached, any attempts to stamp out the virus before a vaccine is available are an unwinnable war. All it takes is one case to undo all the pointless dictatorial efforts, if we try to wipe out the virus we will be locking down forever, or until a vaccine is available if there can be one (and if a vaccine takes as long as is likely the world will be so accustoemd to lockdown by then that it won’t know how to leave it).

139371 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to hotrod, #296 of 1566 🔗

I admit that self-isolation for people who are actually ill is one of the few Covid-related policies I’ve always thought made sense. It’s what people often do of their own choice when sick anyway (if only because they’re too ill to want to go out) which is one of the things that naturally controls the rate at which infectious diseases spread.

But with the false positive rate being what it is, most “infectious” people aren’t (as many as 9 out of 10, if Dr Michael Yeadon’s analysis is correct). It seems to me that the fine might be an attempt at deterring healthy/non-symptomatic people from getting tested!
This, again, might be a good thing if it weren’t for the government’s track record in misrepresenting data to scare people and inflate the level of threat. It wouldn’t at all surprise me if, in a situation where far fewer non-sick people voluntarily applied for tests, this was not reported as “cases plummeting” but as “percentage of positive tests soaring” – never mind that the positive test % was never mentioned before, when it was decreasing…

138649 Lord Rickmansworth, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 5, #297 of 1566 🔗

Blown away that our PODCAST has been featured! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️


138683 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lord Rickmansworth, 1, #298 of 1566 🔗

Loved your rant in the last episode, spot on. Keep up the great work.

138653 Will, replying to Will, 3, #299 of 1566 🔗

I have been trying to find the testing numbers but they are hidden away. Would it be a sensible idea to list, on the daily update, “supposed” positives alongside total tests and then total false positives according to prevailing statistics. Having this information promptly to hand would, I am sure be useful to those of us trying to counter the lies from the government.

138831 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Will, #300 of 1566 🔗

I would like to know where all these tests are taking place, our testing station remains inactive

138654 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #301 of 1566 🔗

Another study this time from Germany showing the dangers of mask wearing:


A German children’s charity got laboratory tests done on one of the masks typically sold in shops, after it had been worn by a child in school for 8 (!) hours: Result: 82 bacterial colonies & 4 mould (fungoid) colonies.

Bet the mask zealots still won’t take note

138838 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #302 of 1566 🔗

They do actually Bart, I start by asking them why they think people cough ? Go on to point out it’s to expel all the gunk from your lungs as far as possible, instead it sits there on your mask ready to breath right back in.
Where appropriate I might add it’s a bit like swallowing a big green flob, over and over again.

139444 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 2, #303 of 1566 🔗

That’s a good question and a good point – we cough to expel the phlegm stuck in our lungs and help clear it.

And if a person is wearing a muzzle, the phlegm is just trapped and doesn’t clear the lungs.

138655 alw, replying to alw, 22, #304 of 1566 🔗

Questions need to be asked about the disgraceful behaviour of the riot police who yesterday baton charged the peaceful anti lockdown protest. Who ordered this and why? Could the reason be that the Coronavirus Act is coming up for renewal in a few days time? And then there is the rather dubious reason given for the further delay to Simon Dolan’s judicial review. I sense that malign forces are at work, the government strategy having failed miserably.

138659 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to alw, 22, #305 of 1566 🔗

It’s all hypocritical isn’t it? Police did SFA with BLM and XR protests but went on the attack for a peaceful anti-lockdown protest.

Same with Simon Dolan’s judicial review whilst there was no such delay for Gina Miller’s.

I smell a rat here. The Establishment are refusing to accept defeat and are still fighting the people.

138671 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #306 of 1566 🔗

I don’t think Dolan’s review will ever be heard.

138678 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to DRW, 6, #307 of 1566 🔗

If it is it will be given the thumbs down by the judiciary. There is no justice and democracy is a sham.

138870 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DRW, 1, #308 of 1566 🔗

I expect they’ll find kiddie porn on his computer, been done before.

138690 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #309 of 1566 🔗

Political Policing.

138879 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 9, #310 of 1566 🔗

40 years ago they arrested my proper anarchist mate Eddie for ‘carrying an offensive weapon’ at a demo in Finsbury Park. Weapon being the pole on which his protest banner flew.
Eddie won his day in Court, got his flag back, and his pole.

138721 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #311 of 1566 🔗

The difference is they are both state sanctioned protest groups.

138867 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to alw, #312 of 1566 🔗

Seems fatuous but it really is all outlined in Spooks Season 5, “Jakarta Is Coming”, Police agents provocateur will start throwing flash-bangs next.

138657 sky_trees, replying to sky_trees, 12, #313 of 1566 🔗

Sometimes this feels like the state imposing increasingly crazy restrictions to stop, for instance, the aging process. People are getting old and ill – stop going outside with infectious germs. Not working? Lock the doors, make sure people are fed salads only. But people are still getting old? As soon as a baby is born, lock it up forever, force feed it the healthiest of foods only, burn everything down so it has no desire to break the forced ‘eternal quarantine’.

As I said yesterday, I don’t think government can get us out of this, they’re in too deep in a sunk costs fallacy – the u-turn to change direction is probably too big to contemplate. It reminds me of Blair and Iraq – it’s impossible to admit it might be wrong, it’s just too big an intellectual leap because of what it might imply for your decision making and character. It’s going to have to come from parliament or the public.

138669 ▶▶ Jon G, replying to sky_trees, 20, #314 of 1566 🔗

I think the Western world’s juvenile inability to contemplate or accept death as a natural finish to life is playing a massive part in this irrational response to Covid.

That’s not to say I think we should simply ignore the pandemic, just be more willing to have difficult conversations about how to respond – you know, like the ones they had in Sweden!

138760 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Jon G, 8, #315 of 1566 🔗

They aren’t difficult conversations, they are grown up conversations. We stopped having them in this country in 1997, it has been downhill ever since and we have raised a generation of children to supposed adulthood without them ever growing up.

139424 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Will, 1, #316 of 1566 🔗

Actually I had one of these types of grown up conversations back in 2010, I think it was. Stood talking to two of my English neighbours. The three of us were discussing death and what we wanted done with our remains (scattered in the local community orchard). Just three women, standing out on our little road, discussing death as an everyday thing. Funny thing is that’s something I’ve always liked about the English – it seemed like there was more acceptance of death here than there is in America. How wrong we can be.

140164 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jon G, #317 of 1566 🔗

Pandemic ? Mwah ha ha ha.

138677 ▶▶ Basics, replying to sky_trees, 4, #318 of 1566 🔗

What if the concept of ‘in too deep’ were replaced with ‘they are working for a different outcome to what you suppose?’

I don’t see evidence of the government working for the good of the people.

139108 ▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to Basics, 2, #319 of 1566 🔗

They never have worked for the good of the people, the question is whether their selfish interest is in getting re-elected by appeasing the lockdown zealot moron majority, or in making Britain become Airstrip One.

139394 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Harry590, 2, #320 of 1566 🔗

I’m not so sure, now, that the lockdown zealots are in the majority as regards the general public. Online and social media, probably (look at #SayNoToLockdown tweets if you dare… let’s say at least 50% of them are NOT from an anti-lockdown viewpoint) but most of the people I, and my parents, have spoken to in the last few days, have had enough – even if they were quite happy to comply and clap for the NHS back in April. And this is in an affluent commuter area of the South East – mostly people with big gardens and relatively secure jobs. So the tide of opinion is definitely turning, however much the keyboard-warriors still like to sneer!

140062 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Drawde927, #321 of 1566 🔗

My experience too, I know quite a number of people who would best be described as ‘gentle souls’, not political or opinionated at all, who have come round to the opinion that the virus is something we just have to learn to live with and it’s no longer justified to prohibit necessary social interactions. Most hearteningly, several older folks have said that it’s completely unjust to hurt the young to ‘save their lives’ and they’d rather that younger generations were able to get on with their lives.

138698 ▶▶ guy153, replying to sky_trees, 8, #322 of 1566 🔗

I agree and I think/hope it is coming from the public. Lockdown 2.0 is going to be a lot less popular and a lot less complied with. Trying to be optimistic, possible upsides are getting rid of the Cummings/Johnson government sooner rather than later and a backlash that revives some appreciation n people’s minds for the liberty they had taken for granted.

138713 ▶▶▶ sky_trees, replying to guy153, 1, #323 of 1566 🔗

Huge fines are a big disincentive, tho – if you are fined £1000 for being in a group of more than six, well, as I say, it takes more will to break that. Unless everyone does it and it then becomes visibly ridiculous.

138917 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to sky_trees, 1, #324 of 1566 🔗

They would make a mint if they upheld the law in full on Monday morning outside The College as two thousand teenagers arrive from all directions to go to various buildings.
From 08.30 until class begins at 9.00 they form a single mingling mass more concerned with meeting friends old and new than yet more stupid old Covid rules.

I hope I’m around when Covid Monitors try to tackle that!

138972 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to sky_trees, 2, #325 of 1566 🔗

Wait till introduce financial incentives for snitching.

138897 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to guy153, 3, #326 of 1566 🔗

Which is why they have introduced lockdown 2.0 piecemeal starting with Leicester 2 (?) months ago.
I’m still convinced they picked on Leicester because they believe we are still closet racists who won’t care because it’s ‘full of P***s’.
Speeding things up now as the Coronovirus ‘law’ extension comes closer.
Whether the cowards have the nerve to curfew London remains to be seen.

138666 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 19, #327 of 1566 🔗


138674 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #328 of 1566 🔗

I’ve already started calling myself a Covidiot to colleagues and others when discussing my normal life that includes a holiday, trips to the pub, city breaks, niece’s birthday party etc. Sucks to be a bedwetter

138876 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #329 of 1566 🔗

Mmm, maybe you don’t want to call yourself that – look at above definition again

139686 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Tom Blackburn, #330 of 1566 🔗

Covidiot is an acronym dreamt up the slavish British Press to call those who do not conform to the establishment’s corrupt agenda I like People who think for themselves

138675 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #331 of 1566 🔗

That is excellent and sums them up beautifully!

138696 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Nessimmersion, 6, #332 of 1566 🔗

I saw them described as “branch Covidions” which seemed apt (think of the US Waco sect).

138667 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #333 of 1566 🔗

Repost this here from last night about the coverage by a local rag of todays forth coming protest

Edinburgh live deliberately misrepresents people who are concerned about lockdown. Saturday they wrote:

Edinburgh coronavirus deniers to descend on Princes Street tomorrow
Locals have been advised to avoid the area as a crowd of people will be gathering illegally without face coverings tomorrow

I wonder if edinburgh live is as bad at reporting on other matters, I certainly would not rely on a paper using terminology associated with the holocaust to class people who seem massive damage being done to our country and our lives.

138959 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #334 of 1566 🔗

I replied early early this morning.

Local Online Live (mirror group news) misrepresents everything, everyone everytime. Seems to be editorial policy.

139092 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 1, #335 of 1566 🔗

See mjr’s (?) -sorry terrible with names! – good comments about BBC local democracy reporters – bbc embeds on local papers. Or just search the term.

138668 DRW, replying to DRW, 6, #336 of 1566 🔗

We’re heading for the full Melbourne hell aren’t we?

138672 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to DRW, 3, #337 of 1566 🔗

Looks increasingly like it.

138715 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, 4, #338 of 1566 🔗

Yes, we are, and I noticed last night that there was a TV advert for 20,000 more Police. Police state up and coming, with it’s multitude of curtain switching grasses.

138670 Muttly's Shenanigans rocks, 4, #339 of 1566 🔗

The Pilgrims Society is the global organisation controlling the UK & USA media who control all government the patron of The Pilgrims Society is HRH Queen Elizabeth II this likely is why the Royal family are in hiding at Windsor Castle instead of the Buckingham Palace read confirmation at Aim4Truth.org & Coronavirus Crown Virus was made by Nick J Knowles from the Pirbright Institute & Patented Registered official in November 2018 the British invented Covid1984

138673 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #340 of 1566 🔗


Carl Heneghan is on Sophy Ridge show on Sky in the next hour.

About time too – he is breaking through the MSM. Hopefully Sophy, the annoying poppet with an agenda, will not keep interrupting him!

138704 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #341 of 1566 🔗

Sophie currently laying the ground work for Heneghan with a limp interview of handjob. Odd she isn’t questioning his ‘error’ in misunderstanding the false positive rate.

138712 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #342 of 1566 🔗

There’s never any hard questioning because they are too scared that the Gov will boycott interviews with them, so you end up with namby pamby weak interviews where the Gov aren’t even challenged.

138722 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JohnB, 2, #343 of 1566 🔗

Sky have been appalling for tonguing government’s backside. Kay Burley the worst culprit.

138726 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #344 of 1566 🔗

Yes, and then it’s always spun as Burley giving Hancock a hard time. I can stand Fatty Boulton either, such an a*se licking slimy creep.

139694 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to JohnB, #345 of 1566 🔗

fatty Boulton LMAO

138727 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 1, #346 of 1566 🔗

No, i mean by the usual standard… spohie is a drip. An absolute washout. She appears comatose.

138723 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, #347 of 1566 🔗

Perhaps because she has a degree in English!

139691 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #348 of 1566 🔗

prof Karol Sikora talks sense and Dr Yeadon

138676 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #349 of 1566 🔗

I read dr Yeardon’s piece in full. Amazing. It made me feel rather positive actually, as he has absolutely nailed it.

With Simon Dolans case postponed, surely this evidence is critical for the October hearing?

All good things come to those who wait?

138685 ▶▶ alw, replying to Country Mumkin, #350 of 1566 🔗


138679 Lord Rickmansworth, 2, #351 of 1566 🔗


Great to see you mention our tweet on LS – the fame!

If you haven’t yet, please listen to our podcast

The Real Normal


138682 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #352 of 1566 🔗

Simon dolan backs this tweet with a visual of the data from coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Cases started rising unusually fast on the 1st September (the day schools started),the growth in the 7-day average flattened off on 5th Sept, and since 9th Sept the 7-day average cases are falling.

These are the facts.


138718 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 6, #353 of 1566 🔗

Simon is indefatigable isn’t he?

Top man

138743 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #354 of 1566 🔗

More power to his elbow.

139697 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Basics, 1, #355 of 1566 🔗

support Simon’s legal challenge on Jonnson & Hancock

138688 CZAR-C, replying to CZAR-C, 5, #356 of 1566 🔗

I think it’s important we get the right people sorting out the new ‘lockdown’ measures.

My vote’s for Doris from Watford:

(Maybe she could attend one of the SAGE or NUTMEG meetings?)

Why isn’t Neil Ferguson referred to as “the man whose model contained possibly the most devastating software mistake of all time”. Or, “the man who ignored the rules for a shag”.

Doris from Watford
(The beating heart of middle England. Travel by bus.)

138804 ▶▶ RickH, replying to CZAR-C, #357 of 1566 🔗

Is she the one that had the lobotomy?

138692 sky_trees, replying to sky_trees, 2, #358 of 1566 🔗

Will they use facial recognition tech to spot those breaking self isolation? Like everything else they just seem to wave this stuff through. Emergencies create tyrannies.

138699 ▶▶ Albie, replying to sky_trees, 3, #359 of 1566 🔗

Snitching will play a big part. A life ruining £10k fine has the potential for tragic consequences, either the snitcher gets murdered or the person fined commits suicide (which, either way, will no doubt be put down as a Covid death!).

138706 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Albie, 6, #360 of 1566 🔗

And once again designed to hit the poorest in society! Those with families who can’t afford to take SSP or whose jobs will be on the line if they need to take 14 days off.

138717 ▶▶▶▶ Albie, replying to JohnB, 4, #361 of 1566 🔗

Although being a contact cannot be avoided in situations like work, it can in others. For example, you would have to be utterly stupid to put your correct phone number on t and t forms at places such as pubs or restaurants. Also, in places where there is no proof you were there, such as someone else’s home, and they have said you were in contact with them, deny it. The onus is on them to prove you were there.

138745 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Albie, 1, #362 of 1566 🔗

Yes, it will make that irrelevant as people with just falsify their details.

Do we know if the place doesn’t take cash whether T&T can then obtain the transaction logs to trace you?

138749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to JohnB, 4, #363 of 1566 🔗

Do you really think an organisation run by Dido Harding would be capable of doing that?

138752 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Will, #364 of 1566 🔗

Dido Harding, a CV full of failure!

139701 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to JohnB, #365 of 1566 🔗

Dildo Harding more like

139795 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to JohnB, 1, #366 of 1566 🔗

Do we know if the place doesn’t take cash whether T&T can then obtain the transaction logs to trace you?

Not quite the same, but I saw this earlier:

Pub-goer collapses and dies in Wetherspoons toilets. The man, aged 42, was identified through the pub’s test and trace system


138773 ▶▶▶▶▶ sky_trees, replying to Albie, 1, #367 of 1566 🔗

They won’t disclose who you were in contact with – the order is given and I don’t think you can challenge it.

Additionally with the escalation this government is doing by diktat, they could increase mass surveillance to literally just watch what someone does throughout the day.

138694 TJN, replying to TJN, 8, #368 of 1566 🔗

Toby today compares Ferguson to Rasputin, previously having compared him to Dr Strangelove. I’ve thought of him as Dr Faustus (whose moment of damnation should have been back in May), or as a latter-day Titus Oates or Matthew Hopkins.

I now think him as an Iago, pouring verbal poison for the sheer joy or wreaking destruction.

138702 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to TJN, 3, #369 of 1566 🔗

100% wrong un. Yet another one for ‘the list’

138778 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #370 of 1566 🔗

.. and they’d none of them be missed,
They’d none of them be missed.

138996 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Tom Blackburn, #371 of 1566 🔗

Yeah, I think he is just a nasty piece of work

139704 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to TJN, #372 of 1566 🔗

more like Dr Mengele or Harold Shipman maybe Jack the Ripper

138703 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #373 of 1566 🔗

Absolutely love the philosophers comments.
Second wave: what is it, how do you define it… etc. Not “sloppy language…”


That will bristle the person who has dictated that the message about ‘rule of six’ needs to be “super simple”.

And on that note… I think “super simple” and “circuit breaker” is an Americanism. So who there, is dictating we keep it “super simple”?

I have heard one person say that live on air… hate to mention his name. So I won’t!

138934 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Country Mumkin, #374 of 1566 🔗

Was going to say the same.

People who claim lockdowns or masks work are definitely in the sphere of unfalsifiable claims. So not scientific in any way. They’d unfortunately not even understand that point either I predict.

However, his whole piece is excellent

138711 Jenny, replying to Jenny, 6, #375 of 1566 🔗

Dr. Yeadon’s piece is amazing. I will definitely be quoting that one in my next letter to my MP, although it is sadly wasted on such an audience. How can this be ignored!

138738 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Jenny, 3, #376 of 1566 🔗

Yes it is well worded. Just read it out to family, sat behind me. It’s so clear, but we are being deliberately herded towards lockdown because “they” want it.

138716 William Hand, replying to William Hand, 21, #377 of 1566 🔗

How many bedwetters does it take to change a light bulb?
None. Because even with the electricity turned off, none can pluck up the courage to touch and remove the old bulb!

138720 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to William Hand, 1, #378 of 1566 🔗


138729 ▶▶ mjr, replying to William Hand, 7, #379 of 1566 🔗

doesnt matter anyway .. give it a year or so and then just wait for the wind to stop blowing – then there will be no electricity anyway

138733 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, 2, #380 of 1566 🔗

We’ll be back on the 3 day week like during the Miners Strikes.

139710 ▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to JohnB, #381 of 1566 🔗

this time under a Tory Government back in the 70’s it was Labour screwing the Country

138719 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 5, #382 of 1566 🔗

Did anyone see this release of a new campaign on the 5th September to recruit 20,000 Police Officers?


Obviously expecting mass Civil Disobedience and more laws to implement over this time too. The time period also fits in pretty well with extending the current lockdown laws by another two years,

138884 ▶▶ Kate, replying to JohnB, #383 of 1566 🔗

Goes on the council tax too!

The Home Office also extended a pilot relaxing conditions around the use of section 60 serious violence stop and search powers.
Meanwhile, police funding is increasing by more than £1 billion this year, including money raised from council tax and to tackle serious violence.

139029 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #384 of 1566 🔗

Talk Radio ran the audio for an advert and asked people to guess what it was for – turned out to be Essex police… It was all ‘woke’ stuff – so I guessed immediately who it was for 😉

138724 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #385 of 1566 🔗

As it’s Sunday I’m having a break from gloomy old BBC radio but thought I would share this from Friday.
The dizzy bint* who fronts what used to be the Chis Evans early show in that ‘we’re all so Krayzee’ way

“Let’s see what’s on telly tonight. Ooooh it’s a real life drama about Dennis Neilson ! Oh he’s SOooo Fabulous 😃 Denis Neilson !
and it’s the true life Story 🥰 of the infamous . . .serial. . .

Killer ☹

Fade to black.

*apologies to our female contributors but she’s no great ambassador for the Sisterhood.

138741 ▶▶ Will, replying to karenovirus, 3, #386 of 1566 🔗

Have you noticed how she breathes in through her teeth, grinds my gears!!!

138747 ▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, 2, #387 of 1566 🔗

wasnt Denis Neilson the guy that had the big hit record with “ without you “??

138784 ▶▶▶ Philip F, replying to mjr, 2, #388 of 1566 🔗

“Can’t live, if living is without you”
Yes thats what social distancing does.

138857 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to karenovirus, 1, #389 of 1566 🔗

*apologies to our female contributors but she’s no great ambassador for the Sisterhood.

Sad, but absolutely agree. We changed to Absolute Radio, what a delightful experience

138725 Crazy Hoarse, replying to Crazy Hoarse, 8, #390 of 1566 🔗

What utter lunacy. I live and work in Merseyside, I was saying to the boss on Friday that if after Tuesday he bumps into a client on the street he best keep the conversation to business only, the second he makes small talk that’s socialising. So the topic of conversation can change something from legal to illegal

138737 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Crazy Hoarse, 3, #391 of 1566 🔗

Lol, reminds me of the time when Inspectors from HMRC were banned from accepting cups of coffee in case these were seen as ‘inducements’.

138923 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Crazy Hoarse, 2, #392 of 1566 🔗

Hopefully scousers will tell them where to stick it !

138736 mjr, replying to mjr, 8, #393 of 1566 🔗


Late on yesterday’s page there were a couple of comments complaining about the biased reporting in local newspapers and their associated web sites.

As has been mentioned on here before , the BBC created the Local Democracy Reporting Service through which they supply and pay for BBC reporters to be embedded in these local media sites

This PDF shows where they are embedded . every newspaper in the country has at least a couple of BBC reporters

So all this biased reporting is just echoing the BBC message,

Free press???? Ha!..

138748 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 4, #394 of 1566 🔗

I have posted the same bit today. As a starter for anyone wanting to look into what a BBC local demcracy reporter is local rags up and down the country are loaded with BBC employed staff. Undisclosed in the articles they write. One local democracy reporter was statiined permanently in the City Chambers of my home city and simple acted as main communiator between the Council and the people. These are not insignificant roles.

138758 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 6, #395 of 1566 🔗

didnt see your post .. but as mentioned over the past couple of days. both thee and me think that everyone on here needs to be aware of this and treat local media with the same contempt as we do MSM .. and keep repeating the message.
Maybe Will or Toby should feature this in the main daily reporting as a permanent banner headline …
“Government Warning. Local News Media can damage your health”

138766 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 3, #396 of 1566 🔗

You’re doing a good job raising awareness. BBC Local Democracy Reporters… paid for by the BBC.. to write news in local papers… without declaring obviously. Why?

138744 mhcp, 6, #397 of 1566 🔗

Love the philosophical bit, but it’s a bit disheartening that I was saying this from day one (apart from the moral bit). Vague data and no falsifiability are a scourge on science but all too common.

138751 Shep, replying to Shep, #398 of 1566 🔗

lockdown would be great, got loads to do in the garden 🐴

138754 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Shep, 1, #399 of 1566 🔗

Blatant fishing 🎣

138930 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Shep, #400 of 1566 🔗

But isn’t it nice to do a bit of gardening then go to the pub ?

138757 Awkward Git, 7, #401 of 1566 🔗



Cheered me up this morning.

Lots of psychological damage being inflicted by the masks exactly a planned.

138759 DRW, replying to DRW, 20, #402 of 1566 🔗

Beinga healthy youngster I should still have so many years of life left to look forward to. Don’t think I want them now, not if I have to spend them in this dystopia.

138781 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to DRW, 13, #403 of 1566 🔗

Yes I feel sorry for your generation having to put up with this shite when you should be having fun. I have been retired 8 years now and although still fit and well can at least look back if things get worse. But keep fighting, keep rebelling, peaceful non-compliance, some of us baby boomers will be there too!

138761 petgor, replying to petgor, 14, #404 of 1566 🔗

Well, if the masks, social distancing and the government experts are so bloody wonderful, why are we still being punished. Rhetorical question!

138798 ▶▶ RickH, replying to petgor, 1, #405 of 1566 🔗

C’mon – you’re not that dim! 🙂 When did this have anything to do with the real world, logic and science?

‘Rhetorical questions indeed!

138814 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to RickH, 1, #406 of 1566 🔗


138763 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 32, #407 of 1566 🔗

Carl for PM! Excellent on Sky – really got the point across about not locking down the under 75s and proper healthcare measures to limit nosocomial spread.

138780 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #408 of 1566 🔗

He is so clear. Excellent.

I liked his point calling for true with opposing stances to come together and work things through with countering arguements – instead of the poor onesided advisors currently in control.

138794 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 10, #409 of 1566 🔗

Seems clear to me that the elites controlling the response will not have him in the room because he shows them up with rational thought backed up with sound analysis of the data from a lifetime of on-the-ground experience. I also think his no-nonsense, Northern working-class approach likely upsets the sensitivities of some!

139816 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #410 of 1566 🔗

There’s a comment on the YouTube post of Carl’s SKY interview saying

“He had better be careful, or he might end up like David Kelly”.

I’ve been thinking the same thing for some time…

138859 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #411 of 1566 🔗

He is really doing his absolute best, what a trooper, but sadly it seems to be falling on deaf ears.

139550 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #412 of 1566 🔗

We must be very grateful that he is so willing to appear in the media. Sucharit Bhakdi, the German retired scientist who has been instrumental in explaining how not dangerous the virus is and how dangerous a vaccine, is very selective who he speaks to. But anyway, as I understand the German MSM is not even trying to speak to critical people.

138765 percy openshaw, 20, #413 of 1566 🔗

Johnson is the most useless, flabby, bumbling, cowardly, incompetent waste of space EVER to become PM. It’s not quite on topic, I know, but the Telegraph today reports that parliamentary staff are being urged to confess their “privilege” if they happen to be white. “There is no place for racism in parliament” intones some authoritarian dweeb. Oh, yes there is – plenty of room – so long as it targets whites. And what does the fatheaded butterfingers in number ten do about it? Zilch, nada, nought. I hated May but for Johnson I feel nothing but contempt. Only on Brexit has he stood firm and there are tremors and wobbles even there.

138777 Ned of the Hills, 27, #414 of 1566 🔗

Here’s my morning story.

Yesterday, in the supermarket I sought to buy some tomatoes, but couldn’t get to look at one tray of tomatoes ‘cos of a really old bloke assiduously examining each one in the tray. He’d pick one up – smooth his thumb over it – then usually drop it down – but occasionally putting one in to a paper bag. He was still at as I made my exit.

But readers will be comforted to know he was wearing a mask!

138779 Will, replying to Will, 15, #415 of 1566 🔗

Please read in your best Shameless accent: “ covid parties here we come if they are going to pay us £500 to sit at home for two weeks”. Has the person who thought up this ridiculous idea actually been lobotomised?

138793 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Will, 7, #416 of 1566 🔗

I made this point elsewhere a little while ago. In a mass testing programme there will be incentives to cheat the test one way or another. If a positive test means a paid holiday, or the sack for not turning up for work, then there will soon be a black market in fakes. For example, if you got a certain test result yesterday, and your friend wants the same result on their test today, why shouldn’t you take the test for them? Are we going to have every one of the 10million tests per day overseen by a Covid Marshal?

138800 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #417 of 1566 🔗

On the other hand, it’s not clear to me that social events for young adults, encouraging them to get the disease at minimal risk to themselves, are such a bad idea. We might call them universities.

We just need a couple of million tests in December to make sure they don’t go home and kill their grannies.

138806 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 15, #418 of 1566 🔗

University term-time is an absolutely ideal time to make sure that as many people as possible in their late teens and early twenties catch the virus. It’s going to be weeks until they next see granny, they’re socially separated from almost anyone over the age of 65 and they can safely build up immunity, recover (if they’re even ill in the first place) and then go home for Christmas safe in the knowledge that they aren’t bringing a ‘killer virus’ back with them.

But that might make too much sense. Probably best just to make their young lives a complete misery, impose virtual incarceration upon them and then blame them for deaths in care homes

138829 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to matt, #419 of 1566 🔗

Give it to them in pill form. Tell them it’s a free ‘e’ on the government.

138837 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to matt, 16, #420 of 1566 🔗

In all seriousness, though, I’m quite concerned about the university intake. I used to be a university lecturer and a college tutor (back in the last millennium) and there was always an undercurrent of concern with students’ mental heath and, frankly, suicide, which is the leading cause of death among young adults. About 20% of all deaths in the relevant age-group: of the order of 500.a year. So suicide poses something like 100 times the risk to students that Covid does. (These are rough figures) I would be very concerned about the effect of the reportedly draconian social measures being imposed by some universities and the balance of risk to the student.

I should add that I am not now in a position of responsibility for any students and this is purely a personal view, albeit informed by my experience.

138882 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 6, #421 of 1566 🔗

So much of this feels like a sustained assault on the lives of the young, to the supposed benefit of the baby boomers, that it still amazes me that gen Y and gen Z are so quiet. You would think they would be furious, but they are silent.

138937 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to matt, 2, #422 of 1566 🔗

Yes but I am not going to be made to feel guilty because I was born i 1949…It wasn’t my fault!

138953 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to David Grimbleby, #423 of 1566 🔗

Yes, but do you have an alibi?

139223 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Richard Pinch, #424 of 1566 🔗

Not one I can think of!

139016 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #425 of 1566 🔗

Was it on here that I read yesterday that only 30 of the 600 students expected had turned up at one university’s accommodation?

139513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alison9, replying to Richard Pinch, #426 of 1566 🔗

This is an excellent point.

138787 petgor, replying to petgor, #427 of 1566 🔗

Then and now. How can we any longer be proud of our country and what it has become. https://youtu.be/6U9ZBs8BlIU

139013 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to petgor, #428 of 1566 🔗

…Before we allowed in people who came for what they could get for free, not with an intention to contribute to national life..

138788 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #429 of 1566 🔗

I wonder if those who breached the “Red wall” in parts of the North and the Midlands last December are just as enthusiastic to step inside a Blue prison?
PS: I readily admit that under Labour,Lib Dems and the Greens,parties that I have voted for, the lockdowns,etc would have been worse.

139126 ▶▶ Harry590, replying to Fingerache Philip., #430 of 1566 🔗

Would be worse under “surveillance queen” “Mrs Snoopers Charter” Theresa May too, much as I despise Boris I know we could have worse crooks in power right now.

138789 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 15, #431 of 1566 🔗

Sky News this morning (Sophie Ridge)

Matt Hancock says they’ve updated guidance so they WILL transfer care home patients from hospital back to home WITH a positive test. He expects them to be isolated. I know from seeing my mums excellent care home that it will not work and therefore turn into a Covid Bushfire. Maybe that’s what they want? Higher deaths justify increased lockdowns?

Carl Henhegan made a great case for using clinical staff with at least 5 years clinical practice to advice Prime Minister. Also made a good case for multiple models showing impacts of other diseases, social, economic, education etc. He also said further restrictions now are misguided, due to resurgence.

138817 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Country Mumkin, 10, #432 of 1566 🔗

Where are the human rights organisations? Why don’t they get an injunction stop the elderly from being chucked out of the hospitals???? Anyone that still thinks that the NHS is great and will provide care to people are misguided. If you can’t rely on care from the NHS anymore people will need to start taking responsibility for their own health so that they can stay out of hospital – start with small things. Just a pity that many of these things we can do to improve our health is heavily censored.

138830 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Victoria, 5, #433 of 1566 🔗

To be fair, Liberty have started to make waves. There is a petition here you can sign:


and some good editorial on their website.

The petition has almost 33,00 signatures for repeal of the Coronavirus Act. Not brilliant, but a start.

139008 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basileus, 1, #434 of 1566 🔗

Also Big Brother Watch

139132 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to Carrie, #435 of 1566 🔗

I wish these charities were willing to go a bit further in defence of rights, not just rely on legal chalenges which rarely if ever work. Imagine a human rights organisation willing to spring people from jails around the world, provide dissidents with artillery, slip poison in to Xi Jinping’s meals, snatch Erdogan and put him on trial (in their own court)…

138939 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 1, #436 of 1566 🔗

UK Column
Clay feet and clapping for the NHS.

This article and sound cloud item covers a great deal around NHS -carehome deaths, DNRs and a specific cluster in Cheshire.

From the UKC article:
“More worryingly numerous reports began to highlight that NHS ‘care’ policy had facilitated the un-necessary deaths of thousands of elderly people in Nursing Care and Residential Homes, as COVID infected elderly were deliberately transferred out of NHS care and into these closed environments, and COVID spread amongst the locked-down inmates. Once infected, the immensely vulnerable elderly were then denied medical care via GPs and the NHS, and written off with ‘Do Not Resuscitate’ notices – many of which were obtained by cynically encouraging the elderly to sign the DNR forms themselves.

Some some of press and media reports covering these events can be found here, but mostly they skim the surface and fail to fully investigate how many elderly highly vulnerable people have died.

Daily Mirror:

The latest data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) showed that there were 5,890 coronavirus-related care home deaths registered up to April 24 in England and Wales, up from just over 3,000 the week before.

The ONS said the numbers are based on where Covid-19 is mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, including in combination with other health conditions.

Speaking at the daily Downing Street press briefing on Friday, NHS England’s medical director, Professor Stephen Powis, said patients were being….” read on at the link

Sound cloud is embedded on the page.

139288 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Country Mumkin, #437 of 1566 🔗

Put simply, Hancock is announcing his intention to carry out mass murder

138791 RickH, replying to RickH, 14, #438 of 1566 🔗

It’s plain, isn’t it?

Given that the first Lockdown,. and other totalitarian measures are known now not to have an effect on Covid transmission, the eveil Goebbels and Mengele Memorial Brigade are not simply admitting the fact that they made a mistake. Oh no. That would be too honest.

So what is the tactic? Yes indeedy! Put in place even more useless measures, and then claim that the lack of a ‘second wave’ of this virus that has run its natural course and is now at a a very low level is down to their brilliant foresight.

We need a return of the law and accountability.

138954 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to RickH, 2, #439 of 1566 🔗

There’s a phenomena within the Sunken Cost Fallacy itself that when you commit money to something new, to more work, it’s even harder to pull yourself out. You can plan to do stuff which is bad enough. But when you then fix a figure on that it’s even worse.

139005 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, #440 of 1566 🔗

That was what James Delingpole said he had heard was the plan, months ago..

138797 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 1, #441 of 1566 🔗

Look mummy, there’s an aeroplane up in the sky

139671 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fiat, #442 of 1566 🔗

Goodbye blue sky . Joni sang it best IMHO.

Perhaps someone will create a piece of music to equal The Wall from this whole fiasco.

138801 Nic, replying to Nic, 11, #443 of 1566 🔗

Just heard Andrew marr and starmer on tv , need immediate action not in 2 weeks , then if figures suggest ,then we should immediately have a full lock down said starmer ffs wev just got to ignore any more rules it’s gone on long enough we are governed by idiots .
We need s new sensible political party , not not labour ,Tories or lib dems none of them are fit to govern.

138808 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nic, 14, #444 of 1566 🔗

Labour is an absolute disgrace, they are failing spectacularly to oppose anything and is instrumental in killing people (no access to health care, isolation and mental health) and killing the economy. Never ever vote for labour and conservatives again.

138875 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Victoria, 5, #445 of 1566 🔗

i wonder if labour are waiting for the conservatives to fail spectacularly and then starmer gets voted in next time. It could be why they are backing the conservatives as they’re doing a good job of destroying their party as well as the country.

138920 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Sue, 2, #446 of 1566 🔗

I think there’s some truth in that. Keir Johnson Starmer is a single organism, a beast with two backs. But it is disproportionately the Tory core vote that is (hopefully) disintegrating.

The Labour vote seems more supportive of covidgeddon. That may be a figment of BS polling though. Certainly working class people in general are pretty sceptical, but then perhaps they’re not Labour voters.

139726 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Victoria, #447 of 1566 🔗

i am a member of the SDP mainly because i refuse to vote for the LibLabCon

138982 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Nic, #448 of 1566 🔗

Stanmer, like many, lives in a public sector bubble that so far remains economically insulated from lockdown and expects to remain so. He may genuinely be stupid or arrogant enough to believe that the virus can be eliminated. For an HR lawyer he is strikingly ok with authoritarian gestures.

139056 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Yawnyaman, #449 of 1566 🔗

For an HR lawyer he is strikingly ok with authoritarian gestures.” he’s batting for the Trilateral Commission. Advocates of elite government, & removal of regular folk from the democratic process.

139074 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #450 of 1566 🔗

You forgot to mention a staunch supporter of Israel also who will do whatever his Ultra-Zionist Mossad masters will tell him to do. Nicole Junkermann will have his number on speed dial!

139494 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, #451 of 1566 🔗

Starmer is a collaborator and has been MIA throughout this shit show. We need to remind him of this all day, every day.

139730 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #452 of 1566 🔗

i would never vote Blairite scum like Starmer

138803 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 24, #453 of 1566 🔗

Where I live in the South West there has been a massive increase in hospitalisations 27% (15 to 19). There are also 17 major hospitals throughout the SW, so this means that on average there are over 1 C19 patient per major hospital. How will they cope?

138822 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #454 of 1566 🔗

Extra dosh – it’s the only thing they understand.

138849 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Smelly Melly, 7, #455 of 1566 🔗

Great post. So easy for the Government to plant stories with small numbers in the media and it makes for sensational headlines i.e. If the number of people that died increased from 1 to 2 that would be a 100% increase in the death rate

139128 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Victoria, 2, #456 of 1566 🔗

That actually happened in Scotland in March. The headline intoned a 100% increase in the death toll. An increase of 1 to 2.

138810 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 38, #457 of 1566 🔗

I cannot believe Hancock actively encouraged people to report neighbours who they think are breaking the rule of six. We had a boundary dispute with neighbours a couple of years ago – dragged on for two years with endless legal interventions that cost us an arm and a leg in legal fees before they finally backed off. They are a very unpleasant family that has caused problems for others in the street. One of their kids had a noisy party last night till 12. I can’t imagine reporting it even though I despise the family. Any politician promoting this policy will burn in hell.

138851 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tyneside Tigress, 11, #458 of 1566 🔗

Yes, I agree; you don’t “shop” people even if you dislike them.

138908 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #459 of 1566 🔗

The encouragement of dobbing is not on.

138811 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 61, #460 of 1566 🔗

Anti-Lockdown Protest, Trafalgar Square, 19th September 2020

Morning fellow sceptics! I think I needed that sleep. As promised, a report on yesterday’s event. I’ve not roughed this out first, so it may seem a bit ropey in a couple of places, for which I apologise.

I turned up just before noon. The stage and speakers weren’t at Nelson’s Column this time, but opposite, in front of the National Gallery. I’m not the usual run of the mill protestor, so I like to wander about and see what’s happening in the surrounding streets. When I’m paying attention to whoever is speaking, I wander along the roads around the edge of the Square proper. When I’m not wandering, I usually stand by the hideous ice cream cone, or whatever it’s supposed to be. In that general area-ish. For those who do not know London well, if you stand with your back to the National Gallery looking towards Nelson’s Column, the road to your right is Pall Mall East. I only mention it because it’s important to what happens later.

The first thing I noticed is that there were fewer attending compared to the last rally. The Square was not bulging at the seams, unlike last time. There were police about, liaison officers in pale-blue surcoats, and other officers in their high-viz jackets (which must have been uncomfortable in the growing heat yesterday). Police helicopter was overhead, an early start for them.

The police made an early move to break up the demonstration. At about 1230 they came out from Pall Mall East and tried to storm the stage, presumably to arrest speakers/organisers. There were also two police horses. To shouts of “choose your side”, they were repulsed, with one or two scuffles. Sadly for those working the National Gallery’s outdoor cafe, the management decided to close this cafe immediately after this incident.

The police retreated after this, though the liaison officers were still mingling in the crowd. I took my first walk at this point. Walking UP Whitehall towards Traf. Sq. I noticed dark blue police vans starting to park up. There were eight. These belong to the Territorial Support Group (TSG), who are today’s riot police.

More officers closed off Pall Mall East, forming a double line, with police horses behind (there were eventually ten of those). They weren’t allowing anybody through and the coffee van closed. The rally continued, without incident, but the numbers of TSG vans eventually reached sixteen, all now parked in Pall Mall East. The officers forming the line now carried riot helmets.

At roughly 1530, a LOT more officers suddenly appeared, so a line of protestors formed in front of the National Gallery. Baseball caps were exchanged for riot helmets, so we knew it was about to kick off.

Sure enough, the police made another attempt to storm the stage. At this point, there were cans and plastic bottles thrown at the police, but yet again they were repulsed. Then TSG moved in to “kettle” the protestors. The point was to make us leave in the direction of Duncannon/Northumberland streets, but the protestors formed lines of our own. There was pushing and counter-pushing, a few officers brandished their batons but most did not. I think this depended on the reactions of those they faced.

If nothing else, it gave the organisers time to pack everything away and get away, I have no idea if any of those were arrested.

Though this was not organised or arranged, we had an impromptu march down Whitehall and towards Downing Street. When TSG realised this was happening, they were legging down Whitehall to get to Downing before we did. Fun to watch them run wearing all that gear in 80+ heat. About half of us carried on to Downing Street, the rest of us turned sharp left past the MoD and began a new protest outside New Scotland Yard. The police there ran. Ran. They weren’t expecting us.

Poor old TSG eventually turned up (even the Police have to wait for assistance!!), so we all buggered off back to Downing Street.

As far as I was concerned it was job done and point made, so this was the time I peeled off and head back to Waterloo Station.

I didn’t see any baton charges in Trafalgar Square, but these most likely happened after we’d left on our “march” and the crowd much depleted. Earlier I had seen one man with a cut lip who said he’d been punched by an officer.

I’m still to watch the videos of the day.

I drove home feeling very happy. The authorities are terrified of us. Next week’s protest may well prove even more… interesting.

138820 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #461 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for the great summary.

138835 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #462 of 1566 🔗

Yw :o))

138862 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #463 of 1566 🔗

Second that. Thanks NR.

138898 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TJN, #464 of 1566 🔗


138824 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #465 of 1566 🔗

Thank you a really good report. I appreciate you have focussed on the police actions against the protest. Did that characterise the day or was there a large portion of the day that was peaceful?

I ask because what little I saw livestreamed appeared peaceful with good natured crowds.

I have read on twitter a large police charge happened at about 4pm. An earlier police charge said to have surprised the protestors – no prior warning from police?

138833 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 21, #466 of 1566 🔗

The first charge did catch the protestors out, but they closed ranks fast and just pushed the police back. This was about 1230, so there was a feeling of imminent violence (to me at least), especially as the police built up their numbers in Pall Mall East. So the second charge was sort of expected.

The protestors were 99.99% peaceful, there were cans and plastic bottles thrown at the police when they tried to storm to stage again, but that was from those in front of the National Gallery, not those down in Trafalgar Square itself.

The big charge was somewhere between 1530 and 1600. I must say the police need to review their tactics, coming at us twice from the same direction.

138839 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #467 of 1566 🔗

Thank you Nick. I really appreciate your input.

138840 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #468 of 1566 🔗


138854 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #469 of 1566 🔗

I was there around 4pm. There didn’t appear to be any central focus. One entertaining moment was the Ethiopian contingent who arrived singing and dancing carrying a picture of Haile Selassie. The crowd was quite diverse and made me wonder whether a lot of these people would have been on the BLM march as well.
Once I saw a group of people march down Whitehall the TSG pulled up their vans and then jumped out running down Whitehall. Overheard someone say they are going to make arrests in 10 minutes. Took that as my cue to to leave.

138902 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #470 of 1566 🔗

I’m glad somebody was there to report on that bit! I was somewhere down Whitehall by then…

139050 ▶▶▶ H K, replying to crimsonpirate, 3, #471 of 1566 🔗

The main organisers and speakers had left by 4pm. If I were to advise the organisers, I would have said to have capped it to 3 hours max and maybe publicly announce to the police that they intend to finish say in 15-30min time (and stick to it) and instruct the crowd to leave calmly, so it gives the police an opportunity hold back from rushing in and de-escalate the situation.

138904 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #472 of 1566 🔗

A great explanation, thank you. I’m very heartened to hear about the impromptu march to Downing Street. They NEED to be scared of us and they jolly well should be.

139428 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lili, 2, #473 of 1566 🔗

They seemed more bothered that we laid siege to New Scotland Yard!

139036 ▶▶ H K, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #474 of 1566 🔗

I was also there yesterday. The police response was totally unnecessary.
It was totally peaceful with no anti-social behaviour at all until the police tried to antigonise the crowd.
They were dressed up in riot gear purely only to intimidate, as there was no other reason.
It was an own goal by the police imo, because if they had waitied another 30min, I think the organisers would have packed up and the crowd would have slowly dispersed anyway. The crowed was starting to disperse before the riot police charged in anyway, now the police have made themselves look bad.
I would criticise the organisers though on a couple of points, they used some bad language a couple of times which just invokes the police to intervene and they should have limited the rally to 3 hours max and then disperse/march elsewhere. This would keep the attention of the crowd, stop people from drinking more alcohol and possibly become more of a liability and gives the police less time to organise and plan to shut it down.

139436 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to H K, 2, #475 of 1566 🔗

The police didn’t move in until they saw people were thinning out. They had their watchers in the crowd I think.

139582 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #476 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for the report Nick and glad that you had a positive experience out of it.

140029 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #477 of 1566 🔗

:o)) The next one is on the 26th…

138818 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 11, #478 of 1566 🔗

The national treasure that is Janet Daley nails it, again, in today’s Telegraph

‘….the number of deaths remains low, even as the number of cases rises……..means either that general immunity to the serious form of the illness is getting stronger or the virus is getting weaker. Or perhaps we are getting better at treating it….And for how long would the death rate have to be consistently low for the government to decide that the crisis had passed – a month, six months?’

The only thing she misses is the distinct possibility that the death rate, in reality, has never been particularly high because of the (convenient?) loosening of cause of death definition during the early stages of the outbreak.

After all, Italy had to reduce its mortality figure to 12% of the original figure and the great Professor Heneghan has already rumbled some of this government’s mortality figures…….

Analysing deaths since mid-July the UK is a clear outlier with a Case Fatality Rate(CFR) of 6.57. Every other European country has a CFR for this period less than three, and Spain is as low as 0.15.’


Rarely have we been so much in need of an immediate and far reaching independent public inquiry, with teeth………

138834 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #479 of 1566 🔗

The only thing she misses is the distinct possibility that the death rate, in reality, has never been particularly high because of the (convenient?) loosening of cause of death definition during the early stages of the outbreak.

Exactly why did the Government deliberately changed the definition of a death (as wide as possible so that about anything would be Covid) at the start of the lockdown?

138951 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Victoria, 1, #480 of 1566 🔗

The official guidance does not answer that question (!)

‘In an emergency period of the COVID-19 pandemic there is a relaxation of previous legislation concerning completion of the medical certificate cause of death (MCCD) by medical practitioners’


The great Professor also forced public health England to change its definition of what constituted a death from covid 19, radically reducing the suspect (and still suspect) mortality figures


No doubt the amendment to medical certificate completion was intended to reduce the chances of doctors becoming infected, infecting others so well meant.

But, as a consequence, the true covid 19 mortality in England may never be conclusively establishes…another pressing reason for an immediate and independent public inquiry while memories are still fresh……

139581 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Tim Bidie, #481 of 1566 🔗

Isn’t it policy that anyone who was not under a doctors care 14 days prior to their death needs a post mortem? I guess this has been suspended.
Like the pathologist from Hamburg, who against gov advice carried out 213 PMs in April and concluded none of them died of covid, but their underlying conditions. As a by-product they discovered complications caused by covid which contributed to a change in treatment. This was publicised beginning of May. The gov had enough time to consider this and amend it’s policy.

138821 Gareth Hart, 3, #482 of 1566 🔗

Has anyone questioned whether people will have the ability to obtain food in “self”-isolation? The concept of “self”-isolation is an absurdity when you are forced to do it. £10,000 fine if you step outside you front door to get food. People prevented from entering your home on health protection grounds to drop off food. And of course, you’re being encouraged to not panic buy and stockpile. The Government is taking inspiration from Xi Jinping, the shuttering of people in their homes with virtual metal barriers in the form of snitching neighbours and surveillance.

138825 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #483 of 1566 🔗

In the round-up:
Counter-intuitive – and funny – piece by my old mate Cosmo Landesman in the Spectator

Can anyone show me anything that is funny or counter-intuitive in the Spectator article?

I know people who have lost loved ones to Covid and they have a sincere belief that the right to life trumps the right to liberty. Such people do not deserve the smear of ‘snitch’.

Laugh a line.

138868 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #484 of 1566 🔗

Agreed. I read it yesterday and wanted to put my fist through the wall.

139147 ▶▶ Harry590, replying to Barney McGrew, #485 of 1566 🔗

It was actually ok for most of the article, except the headline, until near the end. Most of it was about how snitching can be acceptable, if your neighbour is a drug dealer or abusing his wife, but how snitching on minor indiscretions is not acceptable. It also covers how the hate that snitching builds up can lead to the breakdown of the important laws (against murder, assault, theft). Why the author then undermines his reasoned arguments by sympatysing with covid statsi, I can’t understand.

138827 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 9, #486 of 1566 🔗

700,000 Redundancies. Still Think This is Temporary? | Carl Vernon
What can you do?
Rich people plan for 3 generations. Poor people plan for Saturday night


138866 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Victoria, 1, #487 of 1566 🔗

Good video from CV as always.

138836 alison, replying to alison, 6, #488 of 1566 🔗

Eexcellent report by Dr Mike Yeadon, so well explained.

The one question I have after reading it (and not sure if anyone knows the answer) is about whether It is possible to make any meaningful comment on case levels. Dr Yeadon,s corrected case graph corrects cases down by around tenfold. However, it respectfully seems to me that that is correct if the population being tested in Pillar 2 is a random sample of the population at large. But it isn’t. It is partly a self selecting group including those with symptoms associated with Covid, those who have been advised to get a test because of contacts testing positive, those choosing to get tested in order to get out of self isolation, and no doubt a sizeable group who have asked to be tested for some other reason. Further complicated in local lockdown areas where public at large have been encouraged to get tests.

Because the group getting tested will almost certainly include more Covid cases than the general population, due to some of those who are tested because they have symptoms being genuine cases, it seems like the tenfold reduction is too much, being based on wider community infection levels. However, I think this would actually make the testing data problem worse rather than better as unless data about who is being tested and why is kept, the margin of error becomes absurdly wide since we have no idea what proportion of positive tests relate to people where there is a some corroborating information beyond the bare positive test result (symptoms or close contact with someone symptomatic) and how many positive results are in situations where the positive result is the only information suggesting infection (where probability of actual infection is much lower).

I seldom post on here but always read: thanks so much to all of you for the encouraging sense of fellowship in sanity in the midst of this insane time. More and more people are utterly sick of the nonsense, although very worried about whatever crap is about to be announced in the next couple of days, I think UK and devolved governments are all on the edge of outplaying their hands and totally losing the public.

139486 ▶▶ TJN, replying to alison, #489 of 1566 🔗

We’ve been discussing the FPR problem on here today (see especially the posts by Richard Pinch).

In summary, I haven’t got a clue what is going on, and I’m not sure who does, if anyone.

I think your last sentence is entirely correct, although maybe change to the past tense.

138841 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 10, #490 of 1566 🔗

So if you break self isolation rules you can get a £10k fine. How does this encourage people (other than chronic bedwetters) to get tested? Not that I was going to anyway.

138843 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #491 of 1566 🔗


138844 ▶▶ Will, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #492 of 1566 🔗

If you are a layabout they will pay you £500 to layabout for a fortnight… covid party!!!!!

138960 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Smelly Melly, #493 of 1566 🔗

I think its maybe clever as it might put people off getting tested

138944 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to 2 pence, 5, #495 of 1566 🔗

Russia has been back to normal for months. No scare mongering on media, people don’t live in fear.
Hardly any masks on transport.
When I told my cousin in Russia about the law of 6 she couldn’t believe it.

138957 ▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to JulieR, #496 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for that Julie.
Gallaghers and Ian Brown should pack their bags and go on a tour there.

138986 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JulieR, 3, #497 of 1566 🔗

My friends here in Sweden were horrified when I told them about the rule of 6 and moonshot idea, also about the QR codes wherever you go…

138848 mjr, 3, #499 of 1566 🔗

just reading the Mail.. how can one paper be so schizophrenic?

page 10 – brilliant article by Carl Heneghan & Tom Jefferson debunking all the stats
page 12 – misreporting of the Trafalgar Square riots!

138850 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 3, #500 of 1566 🔗

Can I suggest that everyone on here writes to their MP with a copy of the paper by Dr Michael Yeadon? If anyone is a constituent of Sir Graham Brady or Steve Baker please do this as they are known to be sceptics.

138852 ▶▶ jim j, replying to DocRC, #501 of 1566 🔗

Could you link to the paper you refer to please. Thanks.

138860 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to jim j, #502 of 1566 🔗

It’s linked in the daily update

138864 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Charlie Blue, #503 of 1566 🔗

beat me to it!

138863 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to jim j, #504 of 1566 🔗

see Toby’s post under the pic of the 4 horsemen

138956 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to DocRC, #505 of 1566 🔗

I’ve sent it to Hancock

138961 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 3, #506 of 1566 🔗

and here’s the email I sent him yesterday…

”Could someone explain to Mathew that a false positive rate of 1% means that 1% of tests are positive, not 1% of those who have tested positive.

An FPR of 0.8% when the virus prevalence is so low means that at least 91% of “Covid cases” are FALSE POSITIVES.

It would be helpful if he could get to grips with what the FPR actually represents before he causes further damage to this country.”

138855 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, #507 of 1566 🔗

There was discussion between Laurence and Jon G earlier today about Spain, and what the positive test rate from PCR testing is there.

Laurence says 13% – if true, it will inflate the numbers who died ‘with’ a false Covid test – Jon G says 0.3%.

Laurence’s figures seem to come from Table 3 here:
But can they be right or is something being lost in translation? My Spanish isn’t up to it.

Facts, facts, facts – we must use them as weapons.

138878 ▶▶ Henry, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #508 of 1566 🔗

Don’t the Spanish numbers include daily antibody testing also?

138889 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #509 of 1566 🔗

This table shows the 13% number as a calculation of the number of positive tests v tests completed in the last 2 weeks. Drops to 11% for the last 24hrs

138856 swedenborg, 6, #510 of 1566 🔗

“New Zealand reported three new cases, all family members of a man who returned from overseas and went through 14 days quarantine but without producing a positive Covid-19 result. The case reported yesterday is a recent returnee who arrived in New Zealand from India on August 27 and completed managed isolation, returning two negative tests at the facility in Christchurch before returning home to Auckland on September 11. . The source of the case’s infection is still under investigation, but genome sequencing is consistent with two confirmed cases from the same flight from India to New Zealand that landed on August 27.” This is the famous flight from India 27 th Aug bringing 17 pos cases in Quarantine. This case had 2 negative tests during 14 days but became sick a week later. Now the Kiwis are puzzled. Extreme long incubation time or internal transmission?
Good luck to NZ if they can keep their country C-19 virus free forever.

138858 Girl down Under, replying to Girl down Under, 1, #511 of 1566 🔗

Rowan Dean fired up on Sky australia

138886 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Girl down Under, #512 of 1566 🔗

Ignore. Responded to the wrong comment

138865 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #513 of 1566 🔗

An odd outburst from Hitchens this morning. Without any sub-heading, tagged onto the end of his section on the government’s slipperiness and authoritarianism is this:

Sensible Coventry, refusing to let itself be browbeaten or cajoled by the slick, nasty lobby for e-scooters.
These things are dangerous, especially to pedestrians, and it is absurd to pretend that they are healthy (no exercise) or green (battery power comes from power stations).
Always remember the case of Isabelle Albertin, pianist at the Paris Opera for 30 years, left unable to play after one of these jolly horrors smashed into her, breaking two bones in her arm. Ban the nasty things .

Can he not hear himself sounding like the people he purports to despise? Just substitute an anecdote about an individual with long term lung damage, an admonishment of irresponsible people for taking their masks off, and a call to shut pubs, and he sounds just like one of the frightened Covid busybodies who hate all forms of freedom and enjoyment and want the government to protect them from all danger.

138872 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #514 of 1566 🔗

In truth there are very few of us that don’t have a pet hate we’d like to ban!

138894 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #515 of 1566 🔗

He’s a self-confessed grumpy get. Seems to want to live in some bygone age. Still, he’s one of us.

138932 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #516 of 1566 🔗

Was the bygone age so bad???

138925 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #517 of 1566 🔗

the Mail also has a piece on the issues with e scooters. As Hitchens says, these things are uncontrolled. unlicenced and dangerous, They are actually illegal but the police dont seem to bother about them. If anyone comes near me on pavement riding one of these things they will end up in a hedge

138877 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #518 of 1566 🔗

Systemic discouragement of Hydroxychloroquine is a ‘national scandal’

Sky News Australia – host Rowan Dean says Australian governments are “directly responsible for the deaths of Australians” whose lives could have been saved, but weren’t, because governments and bureaucrats discouraged the use of Hydroxychloroquine.

Peru has been on strict military lockdown since March but has the highest death rate in the world. With the truth we will win

138880 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 39, #519 of 1566 🔗

Naughty step cafe despatches:

Busiest day of the year yesterday, so the trolls who had a go early last week didn’t get their way. This also suggests that our customers want the ‘old normal’.
Fairly compliant T&T form-filling but this may be because our customers don’t want to get us into trouble. Some thought it was quick way of submitting their order so I have a few forms with the names ‘Elderflower Presse’ and ‘Vanilla Ice Cream’. Another referred to his wife as “plus one”. And one even tried to write their details on our laminated irreverent table-top signs, rather than the post-its provided! Rounded off the day with a rollicking good laugh with the lady – who provided our LS leaflets – about the insanity of it all.

At one stage yesterday, I nearly recorded the sound of happy, contented punters enjoying some nosh and drinks in the early autumn sunshine but I was too busy!

P.S. Just been to WH Smith. Mask-less, lanyard firmly in back pocket, walked wrong way round and no one said anything. Though I did get a rather sarky “have a nice day” from the young woman at the till who dropped the change into my hand, being as I am, a filthy, revolting vector of disease.

139032 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 9, #520 of 1566 🔗

A few weeks ago when I was in a particularly confrontational mood I went into our WHS deliberately just to try and antagonise the staff into a response (yes,I know it was wrong and childish but I was having one of those days).
I went in through the exit,I ignored the stupid one way system,especially in front of the tills and I touched loads of stuff I had no intention of buying in direct contempt of their ‘don’t touch if not buying’ signs

My plan failed,the staff didn’t even notice me !.

139101 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 9, #521 of 1566 🔗

I think “childish” is justified in these “difficult times …”

I have so many people ask me: “Which way should we walk?” and I reply “Whichever way you want …”

139294 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Paul, 1, #522 of 1566 🔗

In my area there are some signs saying (among other things) “Avoid touching your face”. Guess what I do when I see them?

139688 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Edward, #523 of 1566 🔗

I often get a mad urge to touch my face after hearing one of those announcements over the tannoy. Even better since I don’t wear a mask.

139065 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to kh1485, 5, #524 of 1566 🔗

Has anyone noticed the “track and trace” system in Costa coffee, it’s absolutely hilarious (in a good way)
None of the staff “badger” you to fill in a form or wear a face nappy.
On the “depleted” number of tables there are notices asking you to access a website so as to “track and trace”
I managed to do this once with difficulty but the second time I tried to do it, despite doing everything I did the first time,I failed miserably so I gave up.
Now what about people who do not own a “smart” phone or do not want one? ( The last time I checked, they are not compulsory)
Totally laughable and pointless.
This is our local (no names,no pack drill) Costa so obviously I don’t know the situation elsewhere.

139607 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Fingerache Philip., #525 of 1566 🔗

Our local Costa uses the fire exit as exit. So many people use it as entrance to either sneak in to use the loo or collect drinks their friend ordered. What’s the point?
Yesterday I witnessed one irate customer using the exit correctly and bumping into one of these “but I have already been in and just need to” telling the “offender” off.
And the staff use it all the time when they come back after clearing the outside tables.

139758 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Fingerache Philip., #526 of 1566 🔗

in My Costa Coffee they don’t enforce masks but prefer cards instead of money but i use Money

139599 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to kh1485, 1, #527 of 1566 🔗

Outing myself here of where I live, the smallest pub in England re-opened on Friday with outside seating only and CASH ONLY! Lets hope the weather stays nice.
I walk past it on my way home from work and it has been busy. Although their system of putting the change onto a wooden plate on a tray so the customer can take the change does not make sense, as the bar person would have handled the cash with his/her potentially virus contaminated hands. So they could pass it from hand to hand. But that would mean less than 1.5 metre distance? They put the plate on a tray and hold with arm stretched. Outside.

138885 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 14, #528 of 1566 🔗

Passchendaale was less costly in terms of lives than the Somme but is viewed more critically by historians because the high command used the same tactics they had employed at the Somme even though they had failed so miserably. The high command wanted to vindicate their strategy rather than admit it was wrong. Wait a minute, didn’t we enter the 1st World War at the behest of an hysterical press, a “we must do something” philosophy and with a nonchalant PM distracted by his love life. I am not sure what brought all that to mind.

139113 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Andrew, 4, #529 of 1566 🔗

They were also told it would be over by Christmas 1914.

139764 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to calchas, #530 of 1566 🔗

imagine if Boris was in charge in either world wars get Hancock & Witty to chase the Werhmact out of their foxholes with the Vaccine hande hock or needle

138890 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 2, #531 of 1566 🔗

With apologies to Omar Khayyam …

‘Tis all a chequerboard of nights and days
Where Government with men for pieces plays.
Hither and thither moves, and masks, and slays,
And one by one back in the closet lays’.

138967 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Suitejb, 5, #532 of 1566 🔗

Omar Khayyam?

Didn’t he invent the Remington Micro-Screen Electric Razor as well?,

“So good I bought the company”

138891 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 1, #533 of 1566 🔗

Interesting take on things from of all people Piers Morgan. Has he suddenly spotted the error of his ways.


Either way does anyone know what the right value is as the government site does say what Hancock says so where does the lower value come from?

138907 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to hotrod, 1, #534 of 1566 🔗

I don’t think being stupid is actually lying in its truest form, he believes the nonsense he spews…

(Having a degree in wiffle, waffle and piffle does not mean you are clever – it just means you are good at talking shit)

138893 Major Panic, #535 of 1566 🔗

I’ve just sent this comment to todays entry in Sir John Redwoods Diary….

Protecting the vulnerable from all dangerous pathogens is indeed good common sense but before getting swept away with the increase in CV19 ‘cases please be aware – ”An FPR of 0.8% when the virus prevalence is so low means that at least 91% of “Covid cases” are false positives.”

Maybe you could refer Mathew to the following;

An excellent paper by Dr Mike Yeadon, former CSO and VP, Allergy and Respiratory Research Head with Pfizer….


An earlier paper by Dr Yeadon and two additional extremely qualified colleagues regarding a ‘second wave’….


And the latest from those excellent scientist at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University who appear to have lost patience with the governments scientific advisers’ lack of science….



138899 Smelly Melly, 2, #536 of 1566 🔗

Just a thought but, the people who should be concerned about getting C19 are generally more concerned about the other morbid conditions they are already suffering from?

138900 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, #537 of 1566 🔗

In discussing this hoo-haa with friends and relatives one thing I find is that there is a belief that the virus testing system is perfect and beyond reproach. They are astonished when I suggest it is far from perfect.
I would be interested in a bit of feedback from yourselves for me to use when testing comes up in conversations;

  1. From all that we have read and studied what do we think is a reasonable and sensible False Positive Rate to quote in conversations?
  2. Do we know what false positive rate the ONS use in their surveys?
  3. Are all the pillar 2 tests analysed at commercial laboratories?
  4. Do these laboratories work to a set Government protocol?
  5. Does anyone check the work of these laboratories?

Thank you

138912 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #538 of 1566 🔗

I would suggest

  1. For a mass testing programme, 2% seems to be the working assumption
  2. ONS seem to achieve around 0.05% for their highly specialised purposes.
139166 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Richard Pinch, #539 of 1566 🔗

Thank you

139335 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #540 of 1566 🔗

And at a 2% working assumption, surely this would mean that all or nearly all positives are false positives?
Is that your conclusion? 95%, 98%, 99%?

139360 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #541 of 1566 🔗

For the population as a whole, with 0.1% prevalence, yes, I would say that as mass testing programme woulds return about 95% false positives. For the current testing programmes, on people being tested who have some reason to suppose they might have the disease, not necessarily.

139366 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, #542 of 1566 🔗

I think the distinction is largely irrelevant, since many people are getting worried about a sniffle because of the ramped-up hyperbole.

139485 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, #543 of 1566 🔗

The latest statistics I can find, for 03-09 September: Pillar 1 was 17,557 positive out of 1,887,043 tested = 0.9%; Pillar 2 was 84,837 positive out of 3,990,207 tested = 2.1%

It’s worth saying that these are comparable with false positive rate, so it’s hard to say whether there are any true positives at all …

140137 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #544 of 1566 🔗

Thanks. So at 95% FPR and assuming background prevalence remained much the same, that’s a hell of a lot of positives in Moonshot, followed by self-isolations, followed by contact tracing, followed by more self-isolations.
One doubts the saliva swabs will be any more accurate.
It’s beyond barmy, therefore it’s probably intentional.

139404 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Martindale, #545 of 1566 🔗

I think detailed figures are largely irrelevant. Best take a single figure, such as that perhaps only 4-6% of tests (if that) are real positives, in the sense of someone having an active infection. Warn that the term ‘cases’ means a majority of misleading ‘positives’ that are meaningless for a variety of reasons.

It is important to emphasize that the person who devised the PCR test cautioned that it was not to be used for diagnostic purposes, and that it is particularly inaccurate when cases are at a low level – as now. Another relevant piece of information is that the Norwegian government abandoned random testing because of these issues of inaccuracy.

139616 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Steve Martindale, #546 of 1566 🔗

I cannot say this with certainty, but how I understand the ONS,
3. pillar 2 are mainly commercial lab
Point 4 No re the guidance to labs published beginning of September, available on the PHE website
Point 5 Don’t think so

138901 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -11, #547 of 1566 🔗

[sigh] I’ve read the Yeardon piece and agree with pretty much every word. False Positives (& Negatives) are a well recognised issue with pathogen testing – particularly . In fact, when many LS readers were touting the Ionnadis study of seroprevalence in California, one or two of us were pointing out that at least third of his antibody positives were likely to be False.

However, when testing is carried out continually day after day it is still possible to detect a trend – even if the true numbers are uncertain. It is the TREND that is key here. Note

No. of Positive Cases = No. of TRUE positives + No. of FALSE positives

If the LHS is increasing (after allowing for number of tests) then it is very likely that BOTH terms on the RHS are increasing – as there is no reason for the proportion of FPs to increase independently.

PHE will strongly suspect there has been a REAL increase but to confirm this they will look at other sources of data.  This is where Hancock’s “doubling of hospital admissions every 8 days” comes into play. Toby Young’s criticism on this point is a complete herring. No-one is suggesting the doubling has taken place over four weeks or longer. It is the recent 2 weeks that are important.

If testing was showing an 8-day doubling of cases, say, 8-10 days before present then we would expect to see an 8-day doubling of hospital admissions NOW. That is EXACTLY what we are seeing.

Whether this trend will continue or not? – no-one knows. Will we get a second peak as large as the first one? – again no-one knows.   We do know that if the current trend continues until Christmas it will provide problems for the NHS.

We might all agree that a lockdown is not the answer but we cannot simply wish this potentially big problem away. The virus isn’t disappearing and we are nowhere near an effective level of Herd Immunity.

138913 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 1, #548 of 1566 🔗

”The virus isn’t disappearing and we are nowhere near an effective level of Herd Immunity.”

Is this assuming that there is no mechanism in some of our our immune systems that fight off c19 with out producing antibodies?

Just gave you a deserved uptick, not that it shows

138922 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #549 of 1566 🔗

not sure about the arrogant ‘I know best’ [sigh] – but whatever floats your boat…
It takes all sorts

139053 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, #550 of 1566 🔗

It’s the selfish attitude of his discourse that makes him stand out like a sore thumb, not the probing of what we have brfore us.

Gladly this place is full of compasionate folk.

Narcissist is the modern now slightly put of date term but would be missapplied here. Employed with business in mind. He’ll be attaching labels to you next watch out, your argument will be twisted to fit a preconcieved aim…

139079 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, #551 of 1566 🔗

LOL – i’m not arsed about ‘labels’ whatever direction they come from

138947 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, -2, #552 of 1566 🔗

Is this assuming that there is no mechanism in some of our our immune systems that fight off c19 with out producing antibodies?

No. I just don’t think enough of us have been exposed.

138950 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 1, #553 of 1566 🔗

Do you think London has (or is close to) herd immunity?

139030 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Major Panic, 3, #554 of 1566 🔗

Unfortunately that’s not a completely well-posed question. “Herd immunity” is just the level of immunity in the population that prevents the virus from spreading, but that depends on how it speads.

The R0 for Covid was around 2,8: that is a function of how likely an infected person is to pass the infection on to someone they meet, and the rate at which people meet. Let’s take 3 for simplicity: that is, in a largely susceptible population, each infectious person passes it on to 3 others on average. In the absence of any change in behaviour, what stops the virus spreading is when 2 of the 3 potential recipients are already immune. So the herd immunity level is 2/3 or 66%.

Suppose, naively, that we halved the rate of spread to 1.5 by changing peoples behaviour. Then herd immunity would be reached when 0.5 of the 1.5 potential recipients are already immune, so herd immunity would be .5/1.5 or 33%.

Currently the antibody immunity figures for London are about 11%. Assuming that’s a true measure of immunity (and there’s reason to believe that may not be correct), then that is herd immunity for an R0 of about 1.1. So, roughly speaking, London has enough immunity to resist an infection spread by interpersonal interaction (of the sort likely to cause infection) at rather less than half the normal rate.

Of course, there’s the issue of pre-existing immunity (T-cells or otherwise). If that’s significant, then London may already have reached a level of immunity able to resist spread associated with something like normal interaction but the trouble is, we don’t know that.

139046 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #555 of 1566 🔗

great, thank you

139819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Major Panic, #556 of 1566 🔗

I had another look at the London figures. If it were a self-contained system, then there is is a plausible scenario in which it would be at herd immunity. But that doesn’t take into account the constant influx of commuters from surrounding areas where herd immunity is likely not reached, and so there’s a constant input of fresh infection. I don’t have any plausible figures to model that with …

138963 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 5, #557 of 1566 🔗

Exposed to what?

 “We have now proven that, in some people, pre-existing T cell memory against common cold coronaviruses can cross-recognize SARS-CoV-2, down to the exact molecular structures,”


138924 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 5, #558 of 1566 🔗

That’s the problem with your logic, isn’t it: ‘potentially big problem’

We can’t wish it away because it doesn’t exist, except in potential, and, potentially, it might very well end up as ‘potentially not much of a problem at all’

Like it has for the rest of the year so far……..

138970 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tim Bidie, -5, #559 of 1566 🔗

That’s the problem with your logic, isn’t it: ‘potentially big problem’

We deal in probability on a daily basis. Should I not drive my car or cross the road in case I’m involved in a traffic accident? We accept the risk because we know it’s pretty low.

While we might now have a better idea of the individual risk of severe illness from Covid-19, we still don’t know how many people it might affect.

From the evidence I’ve seen it is more likely we will have a full blown crisis on our hands by Christmas as it is that the virus will disappear. Both these extremes might have a low probability but there are a number of possibilities within the spectrum which could prove challenging.

Are you saying that we shouldn’t be prepared?

138977 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 4, #560 of 1566 🔗

I don’t think many would argue against being prepared but without doing more harm through unintended consequences.

138987 ▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 4, #561 of 1566 🔗

What do you think being prepared involves, Mayo? Genuine question. I do respect your drive to question everything!

139014 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Charlie Blue, -1, #562 of 1566 🔗

For a start, neither Sweden nor the UK did a very good job of protecting the vulnerable. The lockdown certainly wasn’t effective, so that’s where the focus should be.

FWIW, my disagreements with this site concern the use of opinion, speculation and supposition to play down the risks.

I do not disagree with the general view that lockdowns are the wrong strategy. I’d just prefer to see firmer evidence to support this position, e.g. Royal Society study on R Number which shows lockdown had no discernible effect on the R trend.

139055 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mayo, 3, #563 of 1566 🔗

But all the news points to them doing the opposite of protecting the vulnerable old by sending positive cases back to the care homes?

139713 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to CGL, #564 of 1566 🔗


139011 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 1, #565 of 1566 🔗

Why do you think I am saying that?

I am well known for my devotion, if not so much strict adherence, to the 6 Ps

But what I am appalled by is the failure of this government itself to adhere to its own guidance regarding the precautionary principle and risk management:

‘..the Government has established the following principles for risk management, which departments are expected to follow:

  • Openness and transparency—both about their understanding of the nature of risks to the public and about the process they are following in handling them;
  • Engagement—departments will be expected to involve a wide range of representative groups and the public from an early stage in the decision process;
  • Proportionality—action should be proportionate to the level of protection needed, consistent with other action, and targeted to the risk;
  • Evidence—departments should ensure that all relevant factors, including public concerns and values, have been taken into account; and
  • Responsibility and choice—where possible, people who willingly take risks should also accept the consequences and people who have risks imposed on them should have a say in how those risks are managed.’

Select Committee on Science and Technology seventh report

‘More honoured in the breach than in the observance….’

139122 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #566 of 1566 🔗

Of course we should be prepared, but our preparations should be guided by reviewed/updated evidence of the risk, mediated by cost benefit analysis of the proposed preparations.

138926 ▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, 2, #567 of 1566 🔗

Is Sweden near an effective level of herd immunity?

138964 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Will, 2, #568 of 1566 🔗

May not be entirely as it has shielded its most vulnerable and these will still have some exposure to this virus to come. However similarly dangerous viruses, such as a new flu virus will be a greater threat.

138973 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Will, -2, #569 of 1566 🔗

Stockholm – possibly. I have doubts about the rest of Sweden. However Stockholm is likely to be the main “gateway” so may provide a shelter for the rest of Sweden.

138981 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 2, #570 of 1566 🔗

So protecting, as best is practically possible, those most vulnerable to flu, coronaviruses, etc – but without causing too much disruption to the rest?

138993 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, #571 of 1566 🔗


139110 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, #572 of 1566 🔗

I am delighted you have embraced lockdown scepticism. Now can you set about trying to persuade the lockdown fetishists and we can start following the Swedish model and move on from this nonsense.

139000 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Major Panic, 4, #573 of 1566 🔗

In other words carry on and don’t lockdown.

Mayo lives in theoretical world which is fine for an exercise. But reality is that the virus numbers have been inflated, the reaction completely idiotic and the damage caused by the lockdown is worse than any form of prevention.

Also we can see who has ethics in science and who doesn’t.

139045 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mayo, 2, #574 of 1566 🔗

Västra Götaland has had a lot of cases so likely high immunity there too.

Are you actually IN Sweden Mayo? Because I am…

139120 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, 1, #575 of 1566 🔗

So that is a yes, what is the seroprevalence in Sweden?

139043 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 3, #576 of 1566 🔗

Well numbers of new cases are dropping, as are hospitalisations, even now that universities have re-opened. In 2 weeks visits are being allowed to care homes and 500 people will be allowed at seated events.

138927 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 10, #577 of 1566 🔗

there is no reason for the proportion of FPs to increase independently

Naive. Just as the certification of Covid deaths has changed over time (starts with two doctors required, ends with care home managers being able to register cause of death over the phone), the administering and processing of tests will also change. A simple, obvious possibility: that vastly increased testing results in reduced quality of training for staff, increased possibility of contamination, pressure on testing labs to speed up results – and I would fully expect a perception by the labs that erring on the side of positives brings in more work.

Remember that we are at such low levels that even slight artefacts will result in what a biased person like yourself would perceive as a ‘surge’ or a ‘spike’ or a ‘second wave’.

138969 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #578 of 1566 🔗

Added to which some of the test kits have not been of the required quality:

‘1.There is considerable diversity of molecular platforms, reagents, kits and assay performance conditions in PHE and NHS laboratories providing SARS-CoV-2 molecular detection
2. There is evidence of quality assurance difficulties for key reagents due to global supply chain issues
3. Shortages of swabs and transport medium have led to local variations in sampling practice which may impact on assay performance through the introduction of inhibitors into biochemical reactions
4. There is no evidence of viral genetic drift as a basis for altered sensitivity of assay
5. Enzyme performance from external suppliers has degraded compared with original validation performance.’


138985 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Barney McGrew, -3, #579 of 1566 🔗

Your comment suggests something of a “conspiracy” is taking place.

The data is not now showing what you want – so the data is contaminated. Sorry, I don’t buy it. The data is consistent across several independent sources. Also you’ll need to explain what the motivation is for those in charge.

Remember that we are at such low levels that even slight artefacts will result in what a biased person like yourself would perceive as a ‘surge’ or a ‘spike’ or a ‘second wave’.

I’m not biased. I can see a trend. It might be a short term trend but it is a trend. There is also a trend in hospital admissions which lags the trend in cases – as we would expect.

139002 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 11, #580 of 1566 🔗

Oh no! Not the conspiracy word! Despite there being nothing in my comment remotely about conspiracies, I take it all back. Just the mention of the word has made me realise the error of my ways. I am sorry for ever suggesting that when virus levels are at <0.1%, *any* slight change to the way things are done will be amplified and appear as a ‘surge’ or a ‘spike’.

Thanks for drawing my attention to my near brush with tinfoil hat-wearing conpiracy theorists. By the way, how is your mask working in protecting you and everyone else from the invisible death particles? If you made it from, say, tinfoil might it be more effective..?

139015 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #581 of 1566 🔗

”Your comment suggests something of a “conspiracy” is taking place.”

Well you hid that well mate, I couldn’t see it – Maybe he/she has spotted what he/she wanted to see, like those who have spotted a ”second wave”

139004 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Mayo, 5, #582 of 1566 🔗

Using the word conspiracy now?

Barney is saying that as we deploy such new capacity, quality may have an impact. Certainly plausible given how sensitive the tests are to contamination. Also in any industrial process, any unnatural push for more output inevitably leads to mistakes.

139059 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #583 of 1566 🔗

Ha! I predicted there would be a slur coming up as I read through this chat. What it is to be predictable…still gave me a boost of cheer getting one thing right today!

138941 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Mayo, 6, #584 of 1566 🔗

Since the numbers are relatively small one has to be aware of statistical uncertainty.

138990 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Basileus, -2, #585 of 1566 🔗

I am aware of this. I assume PHE statisticians are aware of this. I’m certain that ONS statisticians are aware of it also.

138994 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 4, #586 of 1566 🔗

some optimistic assumptions

139003 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 4, #587 of 1566 🔗

Matt Hancock seemed to think the FPR was a percentage of the positive results from testing – red herring?

139017 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mayo, 4, #588 of 1566 🔗

But maybe they’re waiting for Carl Heneghan to tell them how to fix it.

139027 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #589 of 1566 🔗


139130 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, 4, #590 of 1566 🔗

If PHE are aware of this, there is an extremely simple solution, retest all positives in a different lab, publish the amplification cycle numbers and, most importantly, be transparent as to the reasons for covid admissions and don’t use dodgy Welsh “suspected covid” figures to make the data fit the narrative.

138983 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mayo, 6, #591 of 1566 🔗

If we see the worst-case outcome you describe of course we can’t wish it away, but I can’t see any option but to live with that as best we can. Destroying our society is no solution. If there is a real need to use effective measures (not moonshots) to minimise deaths and ease NHS pressure then continued dishonesty about facts, figures and methodology will only serve to ensure non-cooperation.

139033 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #592 of 1566 🔗

Destroying our society is no solution

This is the ‘elephant in the room’ (to use a once very fashionable cliche). The pro-lockdown people never acknowledge that this is the inevitable consequence of their antics. When the sh*t hits the fan – it may take months or even years – they will blame everyone else us for it, of course.

139006 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mayo, 4, #593 of 1566 🔗

In UK, France and Spain there is a true increase of cases mixed up in the enormous wave of false pos in mass testing. What have they all in common? Large communities from Indian Sub Continent(UK) North Africa(France) and South America(Spain).There are hundred of millions infections of C-19 in India,Pakistan,North Africa and South America. There is still traffic between Europe and these countries especially during summer. Pakistanis in UK seems to have the highest C-19 rate presently in the UK. Spain has now partially lockdown in the mostly  poor immigrant areas of the Madrid region. The virus is unstoppable. The pandemic will stop when it has run through the 20-40 years old. Will it be like March/April or has the Great Reaper already picked the low hanging fruits?

139503 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Mayo, 1, #594 of 1566 🔗

I think there’s an issue with public presentation here. If someone says “doubling every two weeks” it gives the impression that if not literally every two weeks in human history, there has been some number of two-week periods over which the number has been doubling. If they say “increasing at a rate equivalent to doubling in two weeks”, that simply means the equivalent rate, namely 8% a day, over some undisclosed period. Since the figures are collected on a daily basis, what we’re seeing is “Increasing by an average 8% day on day over the past X days which would mean doubling in two weeks”. I don’t know what the value of X is supposed to be here.

139529 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, #595 of 1566 🔗

Sorry, 8-day doubling is 10% a day. Misread the original post.

138909 Stephen, 7, #596 of 1566 🔗

This increasingly feels like Groundhog Day. But who knows when our Bill Murray’s will learn the error of their ways and get together with Andie MacDowell. Maybe never.

I fear instead that this is Blackadder. General Melchett, having shown his 1:1 scale model of “success” so far in the war, then tells Blackadder that all previous policies will now be repeated. Again. “They will not be expecting it”. We know how that ended.

Our General Melchetts lack the wisdom of Bill Murray’s character in Groundhog Day,

138911 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #597 of 1566 🔗

Eager travellers will be rewarded with record low airfares this winter with prices to sunny destinations falling by 92 per cent in some cases compared with pre-pandemic levels.
Those who missed their summer break can look forward to the colder months for a holiday, with prices starting at £14 for destinations in Europe.

Honestly, in my opinion you’d be mad to book a holiday at the moment. By the time it comes around, we will all be locked down and not permitted to go anywhere. Planning something big like that in advance is next to impossible with the government changing their minds every 5 minutes (stay at home! eat out! stop socialising or you’ll kill granny! go back to work! work from home! stop using coronavirus as a reason not to do things! YOU DID THINGS AND NOW WE NEED TO LOCK DOWN AGAIN YOU DISOBEDIENT SERFS!

138914 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to A. Contrarian, #598 of 1566 🔗

I sell holidays (or used to) and agree with you!

138918 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 2, #599 of 1566 🔗

Could you sell a ‘stay at home’ holiday where you rock up with; sand pit, paddling pool, sun lamp and large brolly?

138928 ▶▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Major Panic, 1, #600 of 1566 🔗

I’d only buy that if they throw hand sanitiser and masks.

138919 ▶▶ Will, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #601 of 1566 🔗

At £14 a flight it is worth a punt though…

138921 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #602 of 1566 🔗

We went away last month and it was hands down the best holiday we’ve ever had. Escaping this nonsense, if only for a week, was like manna from heaven.

138974 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #603 of 1566 🔗

At this rate eager travellers will be rewarded with no aviation industry soon.

139100 ▶▶ Will, replying to A. Contrarian, #604 of 1566 🔗

I would hazard a guess there won’t be much of a discount on flights to Sweden…

139154 ▶▶▶ Harry590, replying to Will, 2, #605 of 1566 🔗

One would only need a one way flight. Who would come back to a locked down UK?

139724 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Harry590, #606 of 1566 🔗

And here I am looking at one way flights on SkyScanner. But not sure where to go….

138931 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 7, #607 of 1566 🔗

The supermarkets local to us (Manchester) have reinstated lockdown procedures again. If the once great British public don’t turn now they never will. It will be heaving it down with rain/snow in weeks, pneumonia will kill more old folk than Covid.

138946 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mike Collins, 6, #608 of 1566 🔗

Ah yes, masks in shops working a treat then, there was a given reason for masks wasn’t there, to give confidence or something – lost in the mists of time now.

138965 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Basics, 6, #609 of 1566 🔗

Yes, and the justification was disproved recently by retail data showing the damage done to sales by the mask mandate.

But it doesn’t matter. In fact, the more blatantly senseless the excuses for each new rule, the more open the contempt of those in power for those who obey, the more effective it all is. Grind people down, undermine their self-worth.

138933 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #610 of 1566 🔗

And he [Hancock] has taken leave of the truth. On Friday morning, Mr Hancock said that the number of hospitalisations for Covid is doubling every seven to eight days.

Now, ‘hospitalisations for Covid’ is a slightly tricky figure. It may well be affected by the Government’s endless futile, frantic hunt for signs of a disease which has largely vanished from among us, and whose main symptom is that you feel just fine, thank you.

Deaths, a figure very hard to massage, are low and remain low after a long fall from their peak on April 8. People must at all costs be distracted from this fact.

I have to wonder about the hospital admission figures, given the slipperiness of the Government throughout this episode. Could it be that people who have tested positive for Covid in one of Mr Hancock’s vast trawls, but who go into hospital mainly for other reasons, get added to this total?

I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. Could it be that our hospitals are being encouraged to admit mild cases for observation, which they would previously have sent home? Who knows? Just guessing.


138945 ▶▶ PFD, replying to Victoria, 4, #611 of 1566 🔗

Almost certainly. A hospital admission with COVID-19 is classified as anyone who tested positive in the previous 14 days, or who tested positive whilst in hospital. As far as I can tell the definition does not recognise the reason for admission to hospital.

138952 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to PFD, 1, #612 of 1566 🔗

That is, I believe, correct: the dashboard under “About” says

England data include people admitted to hospital who tested positive for COVID-19 in the 14 days prior to admission, and those who tested positive in hospital after admission. Inpatients diagnosed with COVID-19 after admission are reported as being admitted on the day prior to their diagnosis. Admissions to all NHS acute hospitals and mental health and learning disability trusts, as well as independent service providers commissioned by the NHS are included.

and confirmed by the further details .

138975 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Victoria, #613 of 1566 🔗

I hate to admit this but hospital admissions have doubled every 8 days over the past 3 weeks. If you go back to 22nd August there was the lowest number of admissions, 25, yesterday there were 199. If you double 25 you get 5, double 50 you get 100, double a 100 you get 200, which is where you are now. But that rate of increase does look like it’s slowing, it’s from a low base & I suspect it’s mainly very old people with other problems.

138991 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to NickR, 2, #614 of 1566 🔗

Check the admissions against the typical seasonal variation. You’ll find it’s still within the variance of what we get in Sept. Colds and flu tend to occur more now due to the weather changes and reducing sunlight

139007 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to mhcp, 1, #615 of 1566 🔗

Maybe, but that’s a separate issue. I’m just saying that statistically hospitalisations have doubled every 8 days over the past 24 days. You may not like it, it may not fit your narrative but this is what the data says.

139025 ▶▶▶▶▶ PFD, replying to NickR, 6, #616 of 1566 🔗

I’m sorry but the data doesn’t say that ‘statistically’. To determine that with any statistical data one needs to plot the data, fit a model (exponential growth) and determine the statistical parameters of the best fit. You Selected just one days data. Select the 21st August (49 admissions) or the 19th (58 admissions) and you get a very different answer!

139037 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to PFD, #617 of 1566 🔗

Exactly! Look at the trend over time, not just between 2 random dates..

139088 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Carrie, #618 of 1566 🔗

I’m not advocating this I’m simply saying that Hancock is not wrong in his statement. If you choose the 22/8/20 there were 25 hospitalisations. If you chose the day before or the day after there were 44 & 49 so then it wouldn’t be true, but for that day to 15th Sept he was right.
I don’t think this is the start of an exponential growth curve, I suspect a lot of it is driven by testing & elderly people who’ve come from care homes who have a bit of virus floating around.

139094 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to NickR, 1, #619 of 1566 🔗

As long as they are being admitted for covid and not because they have an in growing toenail and then test positive for covid.

139010 ▶▶▶ PFD, replying to NickR, 5, #620 of 1566 🔗

You can’t just select a date, 22nd August, and then calculate from that. A cursory look at the data for that period shows it to be anomalously low. Days around there are averaging closer to 50 admissions per day! One should plot the daily data to determine the rate of growth and if it is slowing – it is!

138936 Dave #KBF, 3, #621 of 1566 🔗

Surely our Health Secretary should be better doing an interview than this, do ministers not get media training?

Hancock tongue tangle

138942 Danny, replying to Danny, 10, #622 of 1566 🔗

Hospitalisations on the rise. This is completely misleading and creates an image in most minds of an influx of otherwise perfectly healthy people suddenly stricken with Covid.
As in April, 99% of people taken to hospital have serious medical pre-existing conditions, and are now labelled, often erroneously as “Covid” cases. This is not a spike. This is hospitals that have been all but closed for half a year, having to do their job and admit a not unusual or unprecedented number of patients.

138948 petgor, 7, #624 of 1566 🔗

If we carry on like this the manufacturing and service industries will continue to disappear and the only industries that will be left will be bureaucracy and mental health.

138949 PWL, 6, #625 of 1566 🔗

UK Government got the optics it wanted fron yesterday’s Trafalgar Square protest: “covidiots” as violent trouble makers. The details don’t matter. Don’t expect anything else when you play by their rules.

Action to end the interminable unlawful lockdown

138962 NickR, replying to NickR, 7, #626 of 1566 🔗

Latest data on positive tests v hospital admissions. On the 19th Sept there were 3638 positive tests. On the 17th Sept there were 199 new admissions.
What the data doesn’t tell you is:

  1. How many of those new admissions were people admitted due specifically to covid symptoms rather than being admitted for some other reason but happening to test +ve.
  2. How many ‘admitted’ as a covid patient who were already an inpatient in the hospital (recently this has been about 65% of all covid admissions).
  3. What is the age profile of these admissions.
139034 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NickR, 3, #627 of 1566 🔗

Age profile would be interesting to know – is it elderly with flu or other infections – possibly as a result of mask-wearing lowering their immune systems?

139042 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to NickR, 3, #628 of 1566 🔗

They are not giving away this info.
Big secret.

139304 ▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to JulieR, #629 of 1566 🔗

This information is all openly available on the weekly public health England reports. Not a secret. Most Unwell people over 85 due to over 200 nursing home outbreaks.

138971 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #630 of 1566 🔗

JHB spoke to a Dr Layla McCay, Director NHS Confederation on her Friday breakfast programme.

The main thrust of the interview was about issues with the lack of testing available, but a couple of minutes into the interview they talk about NHS hospitals again being told to empty the wards for an influx of cv19 patients.

I did not know if I had misheard this on the drive to work on Friday.

We know emptying the wards of elderly & infirm patients back in March resulted in deaths, because care home do not offer the care needed, especially when GPs will not visit care-homes.

Will this combined with flu & bronchial problems brought about due to the use of masks be our man made second wave.

I would advise not listing / watching the conservative MP for Berwick upon Tweed which follows, you may end up damaging the device you are listening / watching on. Although JHB starts to take the pee later on, “is the virus going on holiday next”

139040 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #631 of 1566 🔗

They manufactured casedemuc by doing lots of tests with many cycles, then they will manufacture increase in deaths by sending vulnerable old people who are having hospital treatment for other illnesses back to care homes.
Then they will introduce more restrictions.

139267 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to JulieR, 1, #632 of 1566 🔗

This 100%. I think we are well past the point of trusting anything coming out of this government. They will manipulate the figures in anyway possible in order to achieve their aim, which is to make peoples lives as unbearable as possible so that they will be begging for the vaccine when it arrives.

138976 H K, replying to H K, 15, #633 of 1566 🔗

I was at Trafalgar Square yesterday and the polie response was totally uncalled for. The crowd were very peaceful, in good spirits and listening to the speakers. The police tried to intimidate the crowd & bait them to cause an agressive reaction a number of times throughout the day but failed. The dozens of riot police turned up at the end to forcefully shut it down.
Anyone who watch the live stream could see that the police response did their image a great deal of harm, and if they had just waited another 30 mins the crowd would have dispersed as it was winding down. Total own goal by the police in my opinion, but I guess in their eyes they had to be seen to be doing something.

139163 ▶▶ Basics, replying to H K, 1, #634 of 1566 🔗


Political policing. We see them. They lose consent.

139409 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to H K, #635 of 1566 🔗

The authorities are getting frightened of us. This is not necessarily a good thing, however.

139144 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tom Blackburn, #638 of 1566 🔗

Some of the comments are awful.

These people are gagging for Lockdown

139148 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #639 of 1566 🔗

These fuckers think they are clever. More clever than the rest of us covidiots. The world is full of them. Selfish bastards.

138980 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 6, #640 of 1566 🔗

Note this article by Tom Jefferson from December 2017. As far as I know it has never come to light during the current debacle that Van-Tam was appointed to the role of Deputy CMO for emergency preparedness and pandemic planning. If he had been introduced as such at No 10 press conferences he would deservedly have been a laughing stock. The article highlights the sinister conflicts of people who were appointed with almost zero publicity. The May government presumably thought it was strengthening the country by making blatant industry appointments in the run up to Brexit – agents of the dynamic new Britain. If we are talking about standards in public life none of this should ever have happened, but the gung-ho spirit prevailed – we now have government of the people, by the racketeers for the racketeers. Perhaps this is what Johnson means by British science and ingenuity but it is all air-headed. Government has been completely debauched and the swindlers of the Emperor’s New Clothes are in charge now:


139099 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to John Stone, #641 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for sharing this. It explains quite a lot.

139103 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John Stone, 1, #642 of 1566 🔗

Yes – thanks for picking that up – it needs to be part of tomorrow’s ‘Round Up’ references.

The date – well ahead of the current debacle – is interesting, and the track record of Tom Jefferson is excellent.

139125 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #643 of 1566 🔗

I suggest spreading the information widely. Even without much hope, I have sent it to my MP as a follow-up to a previous wider missive that, amongst other things highlighted ‘pseudo-science’ tied to government.

139139 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to John Stone, 1, #644 of 1566 🔗

Vernon Coleman has been harping on about this for a long time too.

138984 Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #645 of 1566 🔗

Can someone explain this about the false positive rate?
The ONS surveillance testing through much of the summer gave positive results in only around 1 in 2000 of people tested.
So doesn’t that mean the test gives at most 0.05% false positives?
Why is it now being claimed up to 0.8%.

138998 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #646 of 1566 🔗

not sure if its 1 in 2000 tested or 1 positive per 2000 population possibly

139009 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #647 of 1566 🔗

I believe that the ONS surveillance survey involves much tighter methodology (e.g. test-retest, clinical assessment of symptoms) so that we can be more confident of their findings (not necessarily completely confident). That gives the baseline against which the bun fight that is pillar 2 testing can be assessed and provides us with the likely FPR.

139185 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #648 of 1566 🔗

Yes indeed I understand the ONS run a very tight and comprehensive approach to testing and achieve a FPR of 0.05%.
But this test involves tricky biological techniques and it is generally thought that none of the commercial labs get anywhere near this figure.
Throughout this Covid hoo-haa random statistics have been thrown around like confetti and used selectively to make points.
We have been treated like infants, the Government should have been using the ONS to present clear meaningful publicdata on all aspects of this pantomime.

139018 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 1, #649 of 1566 🔗

The FPR is not a constant it will vary depending on the sensitivity of the test (which has been increased) and between testing labs and randomly on the sampling and analysis on the day.

139028 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 4, #650 of 1566 🔗

Cos they are all liars and are lying to you. It is ALL lies!

When you cross this rubicon, all else falls into place.

139073 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 2, #651 of 1566 🔗

I think the 1 in 2000 is the estimate from the ONS survey of the prevalence of infection in the population.

I think that it is actually an over-estimate of the real prevalence of real infection, because it doesn’t take fully into account the many factors that are required (including false positives) to indicate actual live infection.

My guesstimate is that real infection is well below 1 in 5000

The trouble is that the PCR test is too flawed as a diagnostic tool in these circumstances to produce useful data.

139115 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #652 of 1566 🔗

This is the raw data from the ONS. Actual number of people who tested positive v. number in sample.

Individuals testing positive for COVID-19

Total individuals in sample

One person infected in every

8 May to 21 May 2020




22 May to 4 June 2020




5 June to 18 June 2020




19 June to 2 July 2020




3 July 2020 to 16 July 2020




17 July to 30 July 2020




31 July to 13 August 2020




14 August to 27 August 2020




28 August to 10 September 2020




138988 Jimmmi, replying to Jimmmi, 16, #653 of 1566 🔗

Does anyone else feel increasingly distraught and suicidal?
My appetite has gone, I feel sick every time I eat and the future just opens up to be bleaker and bleaker. I can’t see any possibility of my business picking up – esp after a new lockdown – my step father’s building business (of 30 years) won’t stand another lockdown.
There’s no hope or joy or possibility of a better life on the horizon.
Not entitled to any renumeration from the Government as a small business and they haven’t even bothered to get back to our Universal Credit claim.
Anyone else reaching the end of their tether?

139022 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Jimmmi, 15, #654 of 1566 🔗

Jimmi, hang on there my friend, the night is darkest just before the dawn. I’m sorry to hear about your business, it’s a huge blow but please try to focus on more important things like the kids & your OH.

The tide is turning & we will get through this. Somehow. There will be a new normal unfortunately but not their ‘new normal’ (thank god!).

My thoughts & prayers to you and yours.

139035 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Jimmmi, 5, #655 of 1566 🔗

Please try to draw some comfort from the good folk on here – you are most definitely not alone. I posted something similar a few days ago, and people were so helpful.
As Arnie says – the tide is turning – many folk have had enough and are not happy to continue following rules that don’t have any reasoning.
I really hope your business can get through this, and that all our lives will improve again.

139039 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jimmmi, 6, #656 of 1566 🔗

Yes, I recognise that feeling. To paraphrase Churchill, when we’re going through hell the only thing to do is keep going. We will come out the other side one way or another. If you are feeling suicidal please don’t struggle on feeling alone. Contact the Samaritans and /or your GP (if you can get through to the latter).

139060 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jimmmi, 7, #657 of 1566 🔗

There’s no quick solution, and many of us struggle to feel positive – especially on waking up in the morning.

I guess everyone finds their own means of dealing with it, and it can be done, even if it’s not easy and the feelings come in waves.

But hold on. The evidence here shows that you are not on your own, even tho’ you are having a worse time of it than most.

You will survive, and things will change.

139070 ▶▶ Evelyn, replying to Jimmmi, 6, #658 of 1566 🔗

Jimmi things will change. Your family and friends need you. We are all here for each other. Thinking of you and your family.

139078 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Jimmmi, 4, #659 of 1566 🔗

Hey Jimmi, that’s shocking. Really feeling for you. Like Charlie says talk to someone professional if you need. It is the helplessness that is sapping. You must eat, even little meals more regularly. Try and distract yourself, a quick walk in the sun /fresh air. I have written a few emails to MP’s who see the irrationality of all this. It may help to tell your story especially your work situation to your local member. We are here because we are strong, resourceful and smart enough to be sceptics. We are here to look out for each other so hang in there buddy. Tomorrow is another day, and we must maintain hope.

139090 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Jimmmi, 5, #660 of 1566 🔗

This is probably an odd link to put out here, nothing to do with COVID at all. I switched on the tv this morning while I was ironing and found it so uplifting. It’s a brief doco about the Australian war memorial in Canberra but what stood out to me was the explanation of the design and the character each window/mosaic represented. It really touched me especially with what is going on in the world at the moment. I felt stronger after watching it.

139134 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jimmmi, 4, #661 of 1566 🔗

You are in the thick of this mess and my thoughts are with you. We will see many more like this in the very near future. I hope you can find the strength to fight back because its all we have. Your difficult situation has value because it can change mindsets. Get your message out. To clients, friends, community, MP.

139149 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Jimmmi, 1, #662 of 1566 🔗

Hang in there mate.

139160 ▶▶ Harry590, replying to Jimmmi, 2, #663 of 1566 🔗

Don’t lock down again. Businesses in the parts of the USA hired armed militias to keep the cops away when they stayed open throughout the state lockdowns. I don’t approve of guns, but there must be an analogue we can use over here, any nonv-iolent means of holding off the cops and the council busybodies.

139264 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Jimmmi, 3, #664 of 1566 🔗

I really for you and your family. I have said all along that some selfish people have only looked at their own situations, for some the lockdown proved quite therapeutic and calming. In most ways it has not greatly impacted on me but this doesn’t mean that I am not angry for those whose lives have been ripped apart. Try stay strong, not easy I know, we have to believe that the truth will out and hopefully people will pay for the evil they have inflicted on this country.

138992 Stephen, replying to Stephen, 5, #665 of 1566 🔗

If you buy into the narrative of a Second Wave then the existence of false positives will perversely make you react more strongly to an uptick in positive PCR tests.

The false positives are almost a constant (not quite given the maths but approximately constant) at whatever the false positive rate is. So the true infections start from a lower base. The uptick then seems to have a steeper gradient once you adjust.

I do not buy into the Second Wave, and I do not believe that lock downs and so forth work. They also impose unacceptable costs. Am just interpreting how true believers will be thinking.

139023 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Stephen, 8, #666 of 1566 🔗

The whole charade is predicated on the initial numbers. The first spike is seen as people dying of a novel virus. Doesn’t matter how many times you tell people that there are massive uncertanties, loose attribution, vague range of symptoms. At the time the simple message was these are the deaths caused by Covid-19.

No. Those 41,000 odd deaths are deaths in which there may have been a novel respiratory component. Due to the laxidasical way that reporting has done, the truth has been obscured and you have what is a hypothetical number.

There’s also the phenomenon of cherry picking. Where certain types of death are reported on starting from a certain time period. The numbers rise as more reports are made until a saturationp point. An artefact of reporting.

If we are to take a proper look at the figures then all we can do is look at all-cause mortality. From previous years a bad year is 60,000 where we do nothing.

So a limit of 120,000 where we do little would have been the target.

Then comes the modelling nonsense and suddenly the projection says 500,000 – an order of magnitude difference to usual hence the measures taken. All based on an unvalidiated and unverified model.

Criminal in any other industry (save climate science) and yet completely overlooked because of political expediency.

139051 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 3, #667 of 1566 🔗

The ‘first spike’ has to some extent been forgotten in the latest attempts to rush over the cliff.

But that first spike is vitally important – it completely destroyed (or should have) many of the fears about the lethality and exponential growth of the virus.

In the end, this was a pretty ordinary season of high infection, such as we have endured at frequent intervals – not some equivalent of bubonic plague.

139129 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RickH, 1, #668 of 1566 🔗

Yes and as the second wave is based on cases we have to remember that in the first wave cases were based on testing almost exclusively symptomatic individuals. So we are talking about a totally different testing regime now.

The first wave cases would have been in the millions if the same current system would have been applied then

139075 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to mhcp, 3, #669 of 1566 🔗

The majority of public are also not seeing any of these figures in the proper context. Even if we assume that all deaths in 41k are because of covid (which is very doubtful), comparing this to 60k deaths of flu in a bad year and 600k deaths in a typical year of all causes makes the decisions government has made seem completely over the top.
It will be interesting to see what the total deaths figure of all causes for 2020 are. Assuming we are correct about lack of second wave covid deaths will probably be 45-50k max. If total deaths ends up 650-700k it wonder what the comparison will be for each category vs 5 year average, cancer up, suicide up, flu down?

139165 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to dpj, 3, #670 of 1566 🔗

It was that crucial lack of intelligent context that initially alerted me (back in April) to the fact that we wee seeing and hearing propaganda rather than information.

And that is all that most people are seeing. We are fortunate in having the ability to research and analyse – not something that everyone posesses.

… and then we have the barrier of others who can exercise those skills – but who don’t.

139256 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to mhcp, 2, #671 of 1566 🔗

If the patients hadn’t been shoved onto ventilators which damaged their lungs, and hadn’t developed such a serious case of Trump Derangement Syndrome and treated people with HcQ and zinc, as suggested early on, plus not sent so many infected elderly from hospitals to care homes, the death toll would be much lower.
But they couldn’t have justified a lockdown then, could they, let alone a second one.

138995 NickR, 13, #672 of 1566 🔗

This is Western Europe deaths v positive tests.

139001 NappyFace, replying to NappyFace, 1, #673 of 1566 🔗

If the FPR is so high, does that mean that the lethality of the disease as we lockdown sceptics understand it is much worse? Genuine question.

139026 ▶▶ Sally, replying to NappyFace, 6, #674 of 1566 🔗

It’s got nothing to do with lethality; it relates to the performance characteristics of the test. Also the false positive rate has become an issue now because the prevalence of the infection in the population has fallen. The prevalence of a disease affects how likely it is that a person has the disease if they test positive.

This article explains this:

139038 ▶▶ dpj, replying to NappyFace, #675 of 1566 🔗

Basically if 1% of tests give a false positive at the level of postive tests we are currently at this is a big deal. If only 2-3% of tests are positive then it might only be 1-2% ie 100k tested with 3,000 positive might actually be 2,000 postive so 33% of postives are not.
1% FPR if 50% positive, 50% negative is no big deal as it might just mean 49% positive instead of 50.

139061 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to NappyFace, 3, #676 of 1566 🔗

I know what you mean. The re-definition of ‘case’ from the Dr. Finlay sense to its current meaning is also paradoxical. A rough calculation of the ‘case fatality ratio’ from current figures in the news will look low (one person in the whole country dying in a day, but a gazillion ‘cases’). On the other hand, anyone who extrapolates from the official CFR of, say, 1% to the gazillion ‘cases’ will assume that armageddon is upon us.

139084 ▶▶▶ NappyFace, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #677 of 1566 🔗

Thanks – that’s what I was getting at. The vast majority of cases are false positives, due to the FPR of 0.8%. That means the real fatality is higher.

It’s still horseshit as far as I can tell. Otherwise all the people who flocked to Bournemouth beach (to the scorn of the bedwetters) would be dead.

139107 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to NappyFace, 2, #678 of 1566 🔗

Yes, that is correct but I’m still sure that the actual experts who know what they are doing that have suggested that fatality rate will end up about 0.1% or less are still right.

139069 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to NappyFace, 5, #679 of 1566 🔗

If the FPR is so high, does that mean that the lethality of the disease as we lockdown sceptics understand it is much worse?

The average age of a coronavirus related death (even taking the obviously inflated figures at face value) is over eighty. Life expectancy is under eighty. These two facts show that the virus is not lethal. It is having zero effect on mortality.

139085 ▶▶▶ NappyFace, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #680 of 1566 🔗

True. The same argument can be made for smoking, I believe. ie the average age of death due to smoking is beyond normal life expectancy.

139012 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 32, #681 of 1566 🔗

Yesterday, BBC Breakfast had an epidemiologist on. He said of the Rule of Six that ideally it should be the Rule of One because it would then be possible to prevent the transmission of the disease. He did however appear to recognise that this would be impractical and therefore advocated that everyone should observe two metre social distancing. Whilst he was authoritatively making these assertions, I could not help but notice that his hair was most elegantly styled. He certainly had not cut it himself and I very much doubt that his hair stylist had cut it from a distance of two metres.

139063 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #682 of 1566 🔗

Rules for thee not for me

139081 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to 6097 Smith W, 9, #683 of 1566 🔗

Someone I know who has been consistently in favour of the lockdowns, social distancing, face mask wearing nonsense explicitly told me that the rules do not apply to him (and people like him) but are for “the polloi”.

139066 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #684 of 1566 🔗

I bet the interviewers didn’t put that point to him.

139076 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Tenchy, #685 of 1566 🔗

You are correct. The interviewer was Naga Munchetty. On the previous day she had interviewed Matt Hancock and asked him a question about the number of “cases”. When Hancock started to respond by referring to ONS published figures, she immediately interrupted him, saying that “we” didn’t want to know about such retrospective, but needed to know the scenario.

139089 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #686 of 1566 🔗

Naga Munchetty wouldn’t recognise a good question if it stood up and bit her on the arse

139091 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 6, #687 of 1566 🔗

and so i am not accused of being sexist.. (or god (or allah) forbid, racist) that goes for all the breakfast tv presenters (i refuse to call them journalists)

139098 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to mjr, 2, #688 of 1566 🔗

In the days when I used to watch BBC Breakfast, she always seemed to me to be extremely smug, would continually talk over others and was quite condescending to her colleagues, especially Mike Bushell.

Made good use of the mute button whenever she was on!

139178 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 2, #689 of 1566 🔗

Lorraine Kelly. Scottish (of relevance since Humza Yoysaf SNP Justice MSP called Anti-English demonstrations at the border (Eng/Scot) by Scottish people “Racist” (not an uncommon label when avoiding the accurate word ‘Nationalist’)), is, in fact, not even a prrsenter but an actor. She plays herself a court found. It’s better for tax purposes (you see).

139136 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Steve Hayes, #690 of 1566 🔗

Another one for the gallows

139175 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #691 of 1566 🔗

I think it’s quite a useful comment, in that it shows the complete insanity of shill epidemiologists backing the government line.

Perhaps bullied in the playground?

139252 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #692 of 1566 🔗

He’s not related to Nancy Pelosi, by any chance??

139062 Paul, replying to Paul, 38, #693 of 1566 🔗

Throughout this year of lunacy,I and everyone I know has carried on with life as normally as possible.
The outcome of this reckless behaviour ?,

I have not caught the virus
My wife has not caught the virus
Our daughter and her partner and his family have not caught the virus
No-one in my family or my wife’s family has caught the virus
Not one of our friends or anyone in their families has caught the virus
No-one above mentioned knows anyone who has caught the virus
No-one on our street has caught the virus
No-one who works in any of the businesses we have used throughout has caught the virus
None of the delivery drivers who have delivered to us throughout has caught the virus
Neither our dog nor horse has caught the virus.

It should be noted that our daughter works in an NHS hospital and has been in contact with apparently covid infected patients and she is pretty sure no member of staff at the hospital has caught the virus either.

139082 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Paul, 5, #694 of 1566 🔗

If all these people were tested, how many would test positive?

139124 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #695 of 1566 🔗

Great response.

It’s a nonsense isn’t it? I would love a sceptic lab set up in an area with zero cases reported. My village of around 1500 would be perfect. Test test test and see what kind of crisis you could engineer.

139086 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Paul, 2, #696 of 1566 🔗

Better all lock down again though just to make sure

139159 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Paul, 6, #697 of 1566 🔗

Yep. Simply put, if you didn’t watch TV or read the internet you wouldn’t even know anything was happening. It’s the most benign pandemic we could have imagined. The fear is based entirely from statistics and runs completely counter to personal experience.

139173 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Achilles, 2, #698 of 1566 🔗

Yes, that guy who made the ‘shopping in Sweden’ video has posted a longer version, and he makes the same point.
During his visit here he was amazed at how few signs of a supposed ‘killer’ pandemic there are over here when you walk around town..

139207 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Achilles, 3, #699 of 1566 🔗

We are constantly being bombarded by the message we are in a deadly pandemic for 7 months by the media, internet and government but the pandemic is completely invisible. I would love it if a lockdown zealot could explain this massive contradiction.

139164 ▶▶ Harry590, replying to Paul, 2, #700 of 1566 🔗

Many of them have had the virus, they just, like most people, have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all.

139171 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Paul, 2, #701 of 1566 🔗

Exactly. Same here.

One has to be wary of subjective experience as a replacement for evidence.

But – as others have said – had the disease been a fraction as bad as portrayed, we would have been tripping over bodies instead of scratching our heads to think of victims.

139263 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Paul, 1, #702 of 1566 🔗

And asking a lady on the checkout in Morrison’s had any of the staff caught the virus,.. no came the reply.

139067 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 13, #703 of 1566 🔗

What next?

Excellent article by Mike Yeadon – part of conclusion:
I have explained how a hopelessly-performing diagnostic test has been, and continues to be used, not for diagnosis of disease but, it seems, solely to create fear.”

Surely we must be close to full exposure of the testing / “cases” fiasco? When that happens the rationale for all the restrictions crumbles or should do.

I’d like to think that will see the end of this insanity. But will it? Will governments (and the W.H.O.) back off or will they double down with something yet to be revealed. Thoughts welcome. Sorry if this has been discussed here already.

139117 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to godowneasy, 3, #704 of 1566 🔗

I thought their was a case building before schools reopened to really get the PCR issue out into the open given the inevitable rise in testing demands and false positives.

Since then the case has only grown but the usual lag I’ve seen before such issues move through the press into the polticial conversation doesn’t seem to have happened in this case. It’s like they don’t want to touch it for whatever reason.

139135 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #705 of 1566 🔗

But it’s so useful for justifying more fascism
And Hancock is a fascist

139087 petgor, replying to petgor, 3, #706 of 1566 🔗

for those who are unaware, the department of health gives us the opportunity of making complaints and FoI’s where you can identify yourself and usually they respond, certainly they have to to FoI’s. I have been doing so on just about every occasion, and their have been many, when government regulations/guidleines make no sense. I do this by asking for the science behind the government issued rules and I hope that I adopt a reasonable tone.

If enough of us do this then it might at least indicate that we are not all submissive.

139102 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to petgor, 3, #707 of 1566 🔗

They won’t even disclose the science behind the ‘rule of 6’ to other scientists. They can’t, because there isn’t any. It’s rule by Cabal.


139111 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #708 of 1566 🔗

the science is – Belgium has a ‘rule of 5’ and we are copying them, but with our own twist.

139362 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #709 of 1566 🔗

I am awaiting a response to my FoI on that and the many anomalies created by this government

I am not arguing that my complaints or FoI’s do any good, which I am sure that don’t, judging by the responses so far, that it does give them something to do and they might let something unintended slip, but best of all, it is better to do something rather than off stage carping.

It might help if there were mass letter writing.

139096 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 2, #710 of 1566 🔗

Have I missed somwething? I’ve just started reading today’s LS and in the first section it states the following:
“…Sunderland now has an incidence rate of 103 per 100,000, while South Tyneside, Gateshead and Newcastle have a rate of 70. But, of course, 91% of these “cases” are likely to be false positives and of the remaining 9%, more than half won’t be infectious”.

Isn’t this making the same mistake as Matt Hancock? With and FPR of 0.8% ( = 0.008) and the number tested of 100,000 this will result in an FPR figure of 0.008 x 100,000 = 800.

Am I missing something?


139142 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to DavidC, 1, #711 of 1566 🔗

The rates given for each local area are per 100,000 of the local population, not per 100,000 tests conducted. I agree it’s confusing!

139097 OKUK, 7, #712 of 1566 🔗

Just had a couple of masked effers come within 50 cms coughing away like no tomorrow. There is no way those masks help in any way. They clearly encourage irresponsible behaviour like coughing up close to people.

139105 Barney McGrew, 7, #713 of 1566 🔗

The general sentiment of this article reminds me of the reason for that excellent piece on LS on how the government dismisses concerns about the lockdown policy as “impatience”.


Tory MPs are “irked”, “frustrated”, “irritated”, “disquieted”.

Their concerns are primarily emotional, in other words, and they are just short of ‘having hissy fits’ and ‘throwing tantrums’.

And this is the article I was referring to:

139109 MizakeTheMizan, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 16, #714 of 1566 🔗

Surely we are past the stage where Lockdown Sceptics can still entertain the thought that this is just mere incompetence?

I was clinging on to that hope for as long as I could, but realised it had to be some sort plan about two weeks ago.

139112 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 6, #715 of 1566 🔗

I feel the same. But those in opposition have to be incompetent surely. They have many sticks to beat the government and its zeal for destructive lockdowns. Keep to the Sweden model and they wouldn’t even have to do much thinking for themselves.

139232 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #716 of 1566 🔗

Those in opposition aren’t going to complain about ministerial overreach and excessive use of emergency powers as it sets a nice standard for them when they come to power.

139546 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #717 of 1566 🔗

I reckon we should hammer home the fact that the threat of the virus is grossly overstated and that fear was built up by the UK Behavioural Insights Team and promulgated by the BBC and other mainstream media.

139119 ▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 5, #718 of 1566 🔗

It was very clearly not just incompetence from the point the rules were changed to make it possible for the virus to be put on death certificates without any evidence that the deceased was infected.

139121 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 9, #719 of 1566 🔗

I think I must unfortunately been born extra cynical – my spider senses kicked in when Boris was risen from his sick bed at Easter! Plus all the terrible hospital shots on the news seemed to show the same Italian or Spanish Nurse walking across a room. In these days of on the spot rolling news no journalists were outside Hospital wards anywhere?

139131 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to KBuchanan, 4, #720 of 1566 🔗

My antennae began twitching as the mood music around herd immunity changed back in March. I never fully believed we were going to go through with herd immunity – it always seemed too good to be true.

139133 ▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to KBuchanan, 7, #721 of 1566 🔗

I spent time in IC when I was 23 and, apart from the tumour removal of which put me there, much fitter and healthier than Johnson. (And the only health effect of the tumour by the time I was operated on was to dull the hearing in one ear.)

It took me ages to recover.

I don’t believe he was ever seriously ill

139168 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Martin Spencer, 4, #722 of 1566 🔗

It was his ‘resurrection’ on Easter Sunday, only a few days from supposedly being in intensive care which showed that we were being played…

139170 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Martin Spencer, 1, #723 of 1566 🔗

You have a point. I’ve had two major operations in the last six years, and both periods in care had serious consequences on general fitness for extended periods of time

139276 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Martin Spencer, #724 of 1566 🔗

There were reports at the time that Boris was watching Withnail and I and having a laugh with the hospital staff – whether that’s true or not but hey ho.

139167 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to KBuchanan, 3, #725 of 1566 🔗

Me too, also when the USA started using hospital film from Italy and claiming it was from New York. Around the same time I saw that video someone posted here the other day where they were ventilating a mannequin.
Amazing Polly on youtube posted films where people had driven to their local hospitals that had been featured on the news as having queues of sick, but the following day there was no one there. There was even a hospital with a sign directing people to where a simulation exercise was going on!

139242 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Carrie, 1, #726 of 1566 🔗

Someone on YT (I think) pointed out what was important was not what they the media were showing us, but what they weren’t showing us, i.e. queues of ambulances, full intensive care units, exhausted hospital staff, etc.
What we saw instead were nursing staff in PPE doing synchronised dances on TikTok.
That told us everything.

P.S.: some NHS staff were overworked and exhausted, as there were a lot of patients in ITU wards, and many NHS staff were off work “isolating” or had disappeared back home in another country.

139275 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #727 of 1566 🔗

It was around that time for me also – the Nightingale statue in the background when Boris gave his post hospital discharge speech and I strongly felt that the 2 nurses (Portuguese and New Zealand) who cared for him ‘around the clock’ (were actors.

139527 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #728 of 1566 🔗

I posted posted this before, and by popular demand, now with some paragraphs. Just a few of my thoughts on the subject.

Some people think the government lockdowns are part of a conspiracy, so the question that arises is: “Why should this be so?” Is there any reason? There might be some things happening that just appear to benefit from there being a lockdown with a Behavioral Insights Team helping the BBC to scare the people shwitless. The danger of the disease is over-hyped and the government changes the rules to make it look as if many more people are dying from it than is actually the case. They then decant sick people into care homes where there is very little medical assistance and add all those that die there to the numbers dying from the disease.

he mantra becomes that we can only relax the lockdown rules when a vaccine becomes available. Enter left, a philanthopist, who takes a great interest in these matters agrees to help chivvy this along if you can chip in a few million/billion pounds. He is a major funder of the entities in this field (WHO – 4.3 Billion, Imperial College – 280 Million, Oxford University – 243 Million, Prof. Chris Wittey – 40 Million, BBC Media Action – 53 Million, CDC – 155 Million, GAVI – 3 Billion, Johns Hopkins – 870 Million, NIH (Fauci) – 18 Million).

The prime minister ponces around with world leaders and promises large sums of taxpayer money to the philanthopist’s favourite fund and directly to vaccine manufacturers so that we can all be vaccinated with an incompletely tested vaccine, one where all the ferrets died when exposed to the disease and for which the manufacturers have no liability if the vaccine kills or maims tens of thousands. Still, we have millions of syringes ready so they really must go ahead with vaccine production. They are training recruits too so that they can make sure everyone is protected.

To ensure the populace is well informed, the philanthropist gives money to all the news outlets that will take it and so make sure they never hear the word Hydroxychloroquine. Hydroxychloroquine is banned for use with the disease in most western countries where the death rate is much higher than countries that used it prophylactically or in the early stages of the infection. It just so happens that the head of the centre for disease control in the United States has an interest in a competitor for treating the disease and produced false evidence to attempt to discredit HCQ.

But this minor conflict of interest is not the main concern. It is that if the fact that HCQ treatments can be 100% effective in the early stages of the disease becomes universally known, then people will know that there is absolutely no need whatsoever for a vaccine. And the philanthropist is on record saying that he makes 20 times a much money from vaccines than anything else.

So there you have it, no smoking guns.

139114 Cruella, replying to Cruella, 19, #730 of 1566 🔗

I just don’t know what the point of knowing this stuff is if it doesn’t change our reality. The government are now openly, evidently lying and yet we are still being held hostage. I just find reading this too depressing. What is the point? We have no control over our lives anymore. They can do what they like and justify it by making up the data.

139123 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cruella, 3, #731 of 1566 🔗

Not trying to be smart. You can answer your own question. I mean you actually can. Not dismissively intended.

139192 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cruella, 7, #732 of 1566 🔗

That may be true, but it’s starting to gain traction outside of this site.
According to my OH, Andrew Marr gave Matt Hancock a decent grilling this morning, asking the right sort of questions. It might start to puncture people’s belief in ministerial assertions, particularly those from Hancock. They might start looking at the actual numbers.

139213 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, 1, #733 of 1566 🔗

What is Marr’s agenda then? I thought most of the MSM are pro-lockdown..

139228 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Carrie, 4, #734 of 1566 🔗

Probably more anti-Tory than pro-lockdown. The former overrode the latter.

139202 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Cruella, 5, #735 of 1566 🔗

It can feel like that but for people like Carl Heneghan, Peter Hitchens, Toby and many others who do have a voice, it is important for them to know they are speaking for others and that these others do understand the situation.
To challenge the ruling junta is never easy and you rarely get quick results but brick by brick the wall is coming down.
Rather bizarrely I have 22 people following me on twitter, no idea who they are but you have to keep chipping away.
Many people I speak to have a complete and absolute faith in the testing system and are stunned when I say it has grave faults and to make this point with any conviction you need the facts and information that you pick up on this site.
There are many lockdown zealots and there are relatively few sceptics, but the sceptic numbers are daily growing, hold your nerve and don’t give up.

139116 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #736 of 1566 🔗

The old foreboding fearing of the public coming from the rancid cabal at the heart of the Scottish Government. Many not elected actors are in control hence cabal.

Health msp Freeman, stepping down at next election (snp councilor calls this dead wood), up at 9.30am on a Sunday morning to announce the Scot Gov will make an announcement ‘very soon’.

Behaviour nudge – loom the fear and stoke up the dread.

On comes unelected Leitch CMO to annouce hosiptality ‘may’ be shut down across Scotland. A day or so back Leitch was all about coronavirus being spread in the home. But today we are all about homes spreading it to each other in hospitality setting. No source or evidence given – We Are Jason Leitch afterall

Still, that was only the second fearing trailer to the announcement. The gimlet-eye shit weasel will be brought out to deliver that. It’s the formula of nudge. Fear nudge.

Fear nudge is boring.

139177 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Basics, 3, #737 of 1566 🔗

“But today we are all about homes spreading it to each other in hospitality setting.”

That is the argument used in Ireland to close down Dublin. It makes no sense. When challenged about not closing meat factories with siginificant outbreaks, the State replied that it couldn’t comment due to confidentiality.

139189 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #738 of 1566 🔗

“When challenged about not closing meat factories with siginificant outbreaks, the State replied that it couldn’t comment due to confidentiality.”

You can’t make it up nor the pattern of like actions be ‘independent’ nations. Decidely feels as though spotting these commonalities of governance is subversive.

Thanks for adding Ewan.

139193 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Basics, 2, #739 of 1566 🔗

I wouldn’t be surprised at anything the Scottish Government comes out with now. SG staff have been informed that they will not be returning to offices until 2021 (no specific date given) so they are clearly playing the long game.

139118 NickR, 2, #740 of 1566 🔗

Bit of a busy chart from the Government Covid Surveillance Report (it’s an interesting read). The ethnic dimension is fascinating. It may well be that if you looked at say Bradford, the rate per 100,000 in the city was the same for White & Asian but because so many white people live elsewhere they dilute the rate pr 100,000 for the whites in the region as a whole, whereas the Asian community have no significant dilution because such a high proportion live in the city. Either way, whether it’s fair or not this has incredible potential to cause resentment amongst the white community. ( https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/919092/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_38_FINAL.pdf )

139137 Philip F, replying to Philip F, #741 of 1566 🔗

Sorry for lame post but how do you post images?

139140 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Philip F, #742 of 1566 🔗

you have to log in first fully and then use the little image icon thing bottom left

139143 ▶▶▶ Philip F, replying to Two-Six, #743 of 1566 🔗


139138 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #744 of 1566 🔗

Huge numbers in Dusseldorf marching in anti lockdown protest now.
Live stream here

139180 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #745 of 1566 🔗

The high side of huge that is.

139187 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 5, #746 of 1566 🔗

I’m seeing no sign of any police after watching for quite a while – how different to Trafalgar Square.
I’m also seeing flags of different countries as well as German ones – seen Swedish and Japanese just a moment ago.

139198 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 2, #747 of 1566 🔗

German Police are known to be brutal in comparison to other countries including Britain.

Numbers are massive. No idea of just how many but Berlin had 1-1.5 million and today looks like a good effort beside that number.

139812 ▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Basics, #748 of 1566 🔗

it takes a lot for Germans to get angry usually they follow laws like us British things are changing and people are waking up

139209 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #749 of 1566 🔗

Epic day in Dusseldorf. Peaceful. Police watching on as a giant sign saying Nazis and racists don’t belong in our Parliament its for all. Nazis out being shouted – honestly moving. Germany.

139221 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #750 of 1566 🔗

Watching now, Police are blocking one group of people from moving by forming a ‘wall’, but as yet they are not intervening. They look armed and ready though… But not far away people are marching – can’t really work out what is going on!

139141 Caramel, replying to Caramel, 2, #751 of 1566 🔗

I thought that picture of the police was from Victoria at first. No place should try to be like Victoria!

139153 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Caramel, 5, #752 of 1566 🔗

The police have been behaving like that for a long time.
See how they treated the pro-Brexit protesters, and pro-free speech protesters, versus the opposition.

139145 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 31, #753 of 1566 🔗

Lionel Shriver:

‘ On encountering Chris Whitty’s baleful announcement that the UK is ‘on the edge of losing control’ of the virus, I can’t have been alone in spewing coffee all over a new iPad. Our betters have never controlled the virus. They’ve just controlled us.’

Troo dat

139150 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to James Leary #KBF, 15, #754 of 1566 🔗

That’s the truly bizarre thing. Instead of changing the healthcare system to deal with a health problem they’ve tried instead to change society to deal with it.

139151 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to James Leary #KBF, 12, #755 of 1566 🔗

I worry that Lionel will leave the UK. She moved here presumably because she quite liked the place and the people – but maybe (like us) she has now discovered that the reality is rather different… If you’re reading this, Lionel, please stay! We need you.

139157 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #756 of 1566 🔗

Another one for the long drop I would love to pull the lever.

139162 ▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Jaguarpig, 4, #757 of 1566 🔗

The long drop is too merciful.

139179 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #758 of 1566 🔗

In future, when I hear the names of the government shills ‘Whitty’, ‘Vallance’ ot ‘Van Tam’, I’m going to forward the reference to that comment piece by Tom Jefferson :


= ‘The Smoking Gun’

139234 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #759 of 1566 🔗

I think it’s more a case of losing control of the population they are scared of.

139236 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Awkward Git, #760 of 1566 🔗

And probably, the narrative too.

139152 chris, replying to chris, 5, #761 of 1566 🔗

Just as Brady tries to secure parliamentary scrutiny by challenging automatic renewal of the CV legislation. Tobias Ellwood in Parliament urges a very nervous and uncomfortable Boris to bring in the Army. What for? The ‘timing’ says everything. Whose side will the Army take? The people ?

139172 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to chris, 4, #762 of 1566 🔗

That would be Tobias Elwood, 77th Brigade reservist.

139184 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #763 of 1566 🔗

Privy Council member too. Gained position on the council as a reward for cpr on policeman. It took three days to award him his Privy Council position. Has the state ever acted so fast?

139194 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 4, #764 of 1566 🔗

That was a very suspicious event – watch videos on richplanet.net to see alternative opinions.

That most recent ‘attack’ on London bridge, where the ‘terrorist’ had a fake suicide belt and people attacked him with a narwhal tusk – Rich has footage of him moving to sit up after supposedly having been shot dead!

139199 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Carrie, 1, #765 of 1566 🔗

Richard D Hall is a star hope he is ok as not posted anything lately

139206 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jaguarpig, 1, #766 of 1566 🔗

Yes – he really does his detective work. The Madeleine McCann films (just one example) are incredible!

139212 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 1, #767 of 1566 🔗

I have a T-Shirt, anybody got any idea as to what R D Hall is doing these days?

139218 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, #768 of 1566 🔗

He has done one Covid video but nothing recently – but I believe his contact details are on his website, so I guess we could ask..

139220 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, #769 of 1566 🔗

I think he has gone undercover.

139222 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, #770 of 1566 🔗

Would not surprise me…

139249 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #771 of 1566 🔗

I think he cut his hair and became 2-6

139205 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, #772 of 1566 🔗

See here, with reference to my post above: https://www.richplanet.net/richp_search.php?ref=278&part=1&search=london%20bridge here’s the link: watch from 6 mins 20 to the 7 minute point.

139287 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to chris, 1, #773 of 1566 🔗

I wonder if he had an ancestor who was at Peterloo?
You know, the ones with the Sabres,

139689 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Fingerache Philip., #774 of 1566 🔗

Good call he would fit right in I imagine.

139315 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to chris, 2, #775 of 1566 🔗

Tobias Ellwood is very influential (yet unknown by 99% of the population). You can safely assume he got clearance from a high level to say this – he has been heavily involved in the cyber / propaganda war against the British people. He strikes me as the kind of person who would gladly see anyone opposed to the establishment stance disappear to a camp to never be seen again. Martial law for a virus that kills the very old and vulnerable and has a 99.98% survival rate for most age groups, I would never of thought this would be possible in the UK! Covid-1984

139407 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, #776 of 1566 🔗

I think his involvement in the Westminster bridge ‘event’ was very significant and no mere coincidence.. Also odd that he was pictured supposedly doing CPR while ambulance personnel just stood around – why did they not take over?

139827 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Darryl, #777 of 1566 🔗

charge him with treason https://www.eutruth.org.uk

139155 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 4, #778 of 1566 🔗

How to spread joy around (Marylebone Farmers’ Market)

139201 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to PhilipF, 9, #779 of 1566 🔗

Shop like middle aged men in a sex shop.

139239 ▶▶▶ PhilipF, replying to Cruella, #780 of 1566 🔗

Do you know me?

139253 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Cruella, 2, #781 of 1566 🔗

Ha ha, thanks for the laugh, I need one at the moment.

139247 ▶▶ Basics, replying to PhilipF, #782 of 1566 🔗

Green friendly letters. Are you go~ing to Marylebone fair?…NO.

Good work on the picture posting, smooth!

139250 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to PhilipF, 2, #783 of 1566 🔗

Shop quickly? Doesn’t seem fair to the disabled and the elderly

139774 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to PhilipF, #784 of 1566 🔗


It must be a slow day at Marylebone Farmers’ Market

139158 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #785 of 1566 🔗

DT reporting that death rates dropped in UK when tgey stopped ventilating. Statistics show.

No link from me, someone may add?

139203 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 5, #786 of 1566 🔗

No link sorry BUT they have established that ventilators kill or seriously damage (lung injuries due to forcing oxygen into the lung) patients with Covid. Early in the lockdown, Dr Cameron Kyle-Sidell, American Doctor warned that ventilators are contraindicated when with Covid, however he was ridiculed and youtube etc censored him. Thereafter other medical people said the same thing and even articles in medical journals advising against ventilators in these circumstances. They found better responses if patients were placed in a prone position (face down). This resulted in the UK reducing the number of such patients on ventilators. Shocking that there is a return of Covid patients on ventilators unless they are WITH Covid (other disease but tested positive for Covid)

139231 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 4, #787 of 1566 🔗

The link between ventilated covid-19 patients and death was proven back in March/April and much commented upon at the time.

139244 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #788 of 1566 🔗

It was as you say. I believe this is a mainstream confirming article. Boris had a go on one didn’t he?

139262 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 3, #789 of 1566 🔗

If I remember rightly they were ta;lying about it but they never actually did as I recall thinking “lucky for him” at the time.

I also recall thinking that when he was in “hospital” he was given the ultimatum “do as you are told or you’re dead by ventilator” because he came out a different person and it certainly wasn’t caused by a near death experience due to an illness but he’s been shit scared ever since.

139300 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #790 of 1566 🔗

I am corrected I had it in mind he’d had a go and won the 50/50 survival rate at that time. My error. He wasn’t on one but the ICU at that time may have been a 50/50 survival. Hard when you can’t use medications known to work for political reasons I suppose .

He’s looked like a half stuffed, loose-limbed, lily-livered derangement of a person since. His shit sacred face appeared on the day of his “3 weeks” spout. Seeing a leader display fear is supposed to make people beside themselves with alarm. There was a quality about boris’s fear on that day which said others are controlling this not me.

139402 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #791 of 1566 🔗

I believe he had access to oxygen via a cylinder, which is NOT the same as a ventilator..

139270 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 1, #792 of 1566 🔗

He was never on a ventilator.

139279 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, #793 of 1566 🔗

That explains the return to full working life long civid free and all. Thank you.

139161 Chris John, 7, #794 of 1566 🔗

That Cupid Stunt Marshall Hancock wears that NHS badge like a medal.
Major of the Ninnyfantry brigade, a division of BoJos toy soldiers, made of tin and hollow.

139169 Basics, replying to Basics, 21, #795 of 1566 🔗

Alastair Stewart
The Sunday
reports that Sir
will lead the rebellion against the latest emergency #Covid19 powers, demanding Parliamentary scrutiny. Given he is Chairman of the 1922 Committee, this has a much deeper political significance than the health emergency

139183 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 7, #796 of 1566 🔗

I’d like to hope so, but I am suspicious that the scrutiny of Parliament will merely be a condition of the 1922 committee’s support for the extension of the coronavirus act’s powers – ie they will tell Boris that *unless* he agrees to allow them to vote on restrictions, then they will vote against the extension of the act.

So the act will still be extended…

139296 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Carrie, 5, #797 of 1566 🔗

If parliament votes for restrictions I am fine with them. They’ll still be stupid and destructive, but that’s all. You can recover from stupidity. If this regulations keep flowing from the Health Secretary we are defenceless agains authoritarianism. There’s no coming back from that.

139374 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 1, #798 of 1566 🔗

@AlStewartOBE? Pretentious twit…

139831 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Basics, #799 of 1566 🔗

now is the time for the 1922 commitee to begin writing letters basically putting an end to the Premiership of Boris Johnson like they did to Thatcher back in November 1990 and Theresa May June 2019

139176 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #800 of 1566 🔗

Has anyone noticed the track and trace system in Costa coffee, it’s hilarious (in a good way)
The staff don’t ask you to wear a face nappy or to fill in a t&t form
but when you sit at one of their depleted number of tables, there’s a notice asking you to access Costa’s website and download the app and scan the smart code,etc.
The first time I tried it, I just about managed it but when I tried the second time, although I did exactly the same as I did before I failed miserably.
Some people don’t own a smartphone and some people don’t want one ( they are not compulsory the last time I checked)
This is our local Costa (no names,no pack drill) so I don’t know if this is the case in their other shops

139182 ▶▶ PhilipF, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #801 of 1566 🔗

Yes, it is the same in other shops. I tried it yesterday on the assumption I could leave “amended” information. It wouldn’t work and the nappy face in her perspex fish bowl wouldn’t let me stay. No great loss to me.

139197 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Fingerache Philip., 15, #802 of 1566 🔗

I got asked for my details in a bar yesterday. The guy who signed me in made some flippant comment along the lines of “it’s the new rules, some people don’t like it, I don’t know why!”.

I smiled and agreed while giving him the name “Neil Ferguson” and a made-up phone number. Worrying levels of naivety.

139211 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tee Ell, 8, #803 of 1566 🔗

What you did is BRILLIANT, if thousands of us do the same, surely it would make their t&t system useless.
Oh silly me: it’s always been USELESS like the idiots who thought it up.

139369 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #804 of 1566 🔗

I use RJ Bingham (Lord Lucan for those too young to remember) and J Bond a lot.

139186 FiFiTrixabelle, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 11, #805 of 1566 🔗

I can recommend clicking through to the Belgian Doctors Against Covid website noted by Toby above. Well worth the read and so refreshing to read medics coming together to debunk a lot of this nonsense. Really hope Toby and Dr Malcolm Kendrick can coordinate something over here…I sense a tipping point.

139210 ▶▶ RickH, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 4, #806 of 1566 🔗

Yes – It is a really good summary case against the insanity.

139188 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 40, #807 of 1566 🔗

Just now: Customer comes in to pay with his T&T post-it note.

Cust: “You know this is a load of rubbish, don’t you?” – pointing at the post-it note
kh “Yes, but we have to do this because it’s now the law”
Cust “I’m a doctor. It’s all finished, there is no virus”
kh “I know, but they have to keep up the pretence”
Cust: “Yes, it’s just a face-saving exercise”

And with that, he folded up the post-it note and put it in his back pocket.

139289 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to kh1485, 1, #808 of 1566 🔗

This reminds me of Vaclav Havel’s greengrocer, who put a sign saying “Workers of the World Unite” in communist Czechoslovakia even though neither he nor his customers believed it.Havel said that this corruption was what allowed tyranny to survive. Take down the sign.

Live not by lies.

139395 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Recusant, #809 of 1566 🔗

What sign?

139190 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #810 of 1566 🔗

SOOOO Patronising and authoritarian.

Matt Hancock: Do as You’re Told or else on Andrew Marr.


139196 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #811 of 1566 🔗

I bet his mother doesn’t/ didn’t even like him.

139316 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #812 of 1566 🔗

Is it just my circle , or is he pretty much universally despised. I think that’s why BJ keeps him to deflect everyone’s anger

139191 NickR, replying to NickR, 4, #813 of 1566 🔗

This is English Hospital Admissions by age to 17th Sept, the latest data available.
Doesn’t look much like we’re losing control to me!

139200 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 10, #814 of 1566 🔗

Exactly. We are being subjected to unbalanced fantasy.

Lost in this sewage pond is the simple fact that NOTHING in terms of real evidence warrants the sort of police state that we have – even if admissions and deaths rose to April levels i.e x ~100

139364 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 2, #815 of 1566 🔗

Not even if it was the Black Death, Rick. No excuse for it at all…

139195 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #816 of 1566 🔗

Via Simon Dolan. Met Police have announced the man who was rumoured to have died yesterday at Trafalger Square did not. Good News


139208 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #817 of 1566 🔗

Anyone know how to contact Simon Dolan directly? I don’t have Twitter and I can’t see any contact details on the Keep Britain Free website. He posted that he is coming to Sweden this week and I thought it might be fun to meet him!

139225 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 1, #818 of 1566 🔗
139241 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #819 of 1566 🔗

Thank you AG 🙂

139219 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Basics, 4, #820 of 1566 🔗

One less Corona death, good news!

139628 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Basics, 1, #821 of 1566 🔗

Thank goodness, I’ve been really worried, even though I don’t know him.

139204 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 4, #822 of 1566 🔗

A medical friend told me months ago the tests were unreliable though they were concerned about false negatives. I wonder what percent they are and with both false positves and false negatives the results are obviously meaningless.

139217 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 1, #823 of 1566 🔗

False negatives make very little difference at this stage since there are so few genuine positives.

139214 Cheshirecatslave, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 5, #824 of 1566 🔗

Went to church today and there was an obvious air of fear. Everyone kept masks on after the service though they are OK with me being exempt. More crazy rules as we were invited to join a singing group t the front if we we wanted to sing, whereas in the congregation you may only sing very quietly. Such a clever virus if it knows where people are sitting! The person taking me immediately opened the car windows wider when I mentioned my allergies were making me sneeze a lot then told me their daughter and grandson were staying but insisting on eating their meals in the garden they were so scared.

139238 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 6, #825 of 1566 🔗

This displays the sort of criminality that deserves retribution of a high order.

139259 ▶▶ AllieT, replying to Cheshirecatslave, #826 of 1566 🔗

Sorry to hear … at our Church many of us wear face visors rather than masks & they are all removed when we go for tea & coffee in our cafe area at the end! Haven’t heard of any singing being ‘allowed’ yet. We do pray loudly though! 😊

139215 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 10, #827 of 1566 🔗


Carl Heneghan on Sky News

“COVID-19: ‘No evidence of second wave’, says govt critic

Published on 20 Sep 2020
Prof Carl Heneghan, of the University of Oxford, has been critical of lockdown and government policies to counter the coronavirus.

He says the virus is seasonal and there is no evidence to suggest a second wave yet.

He also recommends going into lockdown after Christmas rather than take drastic action too soon.”

139230 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Lms23, 8, #828 of 1566 🔗

We should never have ‘gone into lockdown’ – why should we ever do it again? Why would it be any better after Christmas?

Are we all prisoners now?

139449 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Saved To Death, #829 of 1566 🔗

If I understood him correctly he was saying that should the govt really want one of their inane “circuit breaker” lockdowns then the time after Christmas when most people are at home would be a better time to do it. I think it got quoted a bit out of context.

139233 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lms23, 3, #830 of 1566 🔗

He added Going into lockdown now or soon would mean an expected increase on release at the worst time in late Autimn or early Winter.

5000 extra deaths are typical in January compared to September – this was part of his reasoning for a possible January lockdown if required.

139240 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 5, #831 of 1566 🔗

..which is why the government want to do it, to keep the whole thing going till they can break people psychologically and more easily force a vaccine on them….

139245 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, 8, #832 of 1566 🔗

I doubt that Heneghan believes at all in Lockdown – I reckon he is just shaping a response that doesn’t depart too far from the psychological state of the shit-scared population, and has some epidemiological credibility in terms of ‘flattening the (real) curve’.

139266 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to RickH, 5, #833 of 1566 🔗

Yes and he knows that if you wait until then the evidence for a 2nd wave will be even thinner.

139281 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to RickH, 3, #834 of 1566 🔗

It’s a mistake to give hostages to fortune in that way. Lockdown kills, and does no good.

Keep it simple. Don’t compromise on truth to save the feelings of delusional people. Saturate them with the reality they dread. Saturation therapy; harsh but effective and necessary.

139224 Basics, 3, #835 of 1566 🔗

Robert F. Kennedy Jr
The world’s preeminent scientists say a theory from the Broad Institute’s Alina Chan is too wild to be believed. But when the theory is about the possibility of #COVID being man-made, is this science or #censorship? via


139226 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 28, #836 of 1566 🔗

I attended the peaceful anti lockdown rally. There was a very diverse crowd the majority were women and children. The problems cause were entirely caused by the Met Police who were incredibly aggressive from the start of the day. There was no provocation for what happened, the police didn’t even need to be on duty at Trafalgar Square.

It was the worse police brutality I have ever seen in person, riot police baton charged a group of peaceful protestors, they also used riot police horses, some of the bruising the protestors had afterwards was dreadful – also 2 protestor taken to hospital unconscious after head strikes by batons and boots (Covid-19 deaths shortly?)

If this had happened abroad (or at a BLM protest) the mainstream media would be united in condemnation. But in the new Authoritarian UK it goes completely unnoticed or defended.

139330 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Darryl, 3, #837 of 1566 🔗

I would make a formal complaint and take legal action.

139357 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, 1, #838 of 1566 🔗

I didn’t see this, though I did go on the impromptu march. I was up by the ice cream cone, the police were fairly well behaved there. Maybe thanks to the press, but who knows why the differences?

139227 DRW, replying to DRW, 23, #839 of 1566 🔗

I went out on a bike ride this morning to have a last look at things before Lockdown II begins. People of all ages were outside and unafraid despite the fresh propaganda campaigns. Back in April there were stupidly long Post Office queues because everyone was scared of each other, today absolutely no signs of that.

Noticed that the local heritage railway probably has more passengers than the mainline, none of them muzzled. Wonder if they’ve turned a blind eye to attract visitors.

Also stopped at a cafe that runs through a hatch so no muzzle misery apart from some staff. People were happily sat together enjoying the sunshine, heartwarming but also heartbreaking that this will all probably be gone next week, and we may never get it back.

I’m very close to tears this afternoon.

139235 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to DRW, 19, #840 of 1566 🔗

The Mail on Sunday is starting to “Wobble” with 3 or 4 sceptic articles.
The alternative is not worth thinking about.

139392 ▶▶ kf99, replying to DRW, #841 of 1566 🔗

I thought heritage railways class themselves as ‘public transport’ for tax reasons? So all the same restrictions apply I think.

139467 ▶▶ Lord Rickmansworth, replying to DRW, #842 of 1566 🔗

We’re here for you! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

139243 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 12, #843 of 1566 🔗

I apologise if I am late to the party on this question, I have been on this site for a while but may have missed this thread. If people are so convinced that a soggy bit of muzzle is keeping them safe from this (killer)virus, then why are some so incensed by people like me not wearing one?. Surely I am unable to pass on my non existant lurgy because it can’t get through their nappy?. I’m prepared to take my chance with the very few other unmasked killers that I come across, so all is well with the world. There was a comment on the DM yesterday from a screaming banchee, complaining that if everyone had followed orders and worn masks then a second wave would not be here!. I replied by saying, how did she know the reason the people did not have a mask on. My fil had copd, he couldn’t breath at the best of times and certainly would not have been able to wear a mask. I got ignored, I detest these zealots with a passion and apologise (yet again) if that sounds harsh.

139254 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Mrs issedoff, 9, #844 of 1566 🔗

The problem is that the government’s propaganda campaign has convinced people that masks only work in one direction – they prevent you from infecting someone else but are totally ineffective at protecting you from other people. Hence, “other people” are the problem and need to be vilified for not following orders.

139271 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mrs issedoff, 6, #845 of 1566 🔗

Ask those people why rates are FALLING in Sweden where almost no one wears masks..

Since kids went back to school (a month ago now) there have been a lot of the usual coughs and colds, but no uptick in either positive tests or hospital admissions..

Here’s a graphic of the number of tests done here in Sweden over the last 11 weeks, showing how many have been positive: https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1307651644381855744

Sweden has done a lot of extra testing recently, both for survey purposes and also because kids getting viruses of various sorts on return to school have also been getting tested..

139284 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 4, #846 of 1566 🔗

This is another interesting survey done by the Public Health Authority here in Sweden, looking at mental health and how people’s lives have changed: https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1305809376062697474

Sweden has always kept an eye on ‘health’ in a more broad context than just ‘absence of illness’ (in this case absence of covid 19); Tegnell often refers to the bigger picture in his interviews. This is something the UK government seem to have ignored!

139297 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, 3, #847 of 1566 🔗

Good to know Sweden cares about these things. My mental health has only gotten worse since March.

139367 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #848 of 1566 🔗

“Surely I am unable to pass on my non existant lurgy because it can’t get through their nappy?.”

I tried that one with my parents and was told that the mask only reduces the chance of infection and therefore everyone has to wear one. 🙁

139248 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 3, #849 of 1566 🔗

Telegraph report yesterday about people being turned away from test centres because their booking confirmation lacked the required QR code.
For heavens sake, where did they get the booking system software from?
A quick Google shows that there are, literally, dozens of solutions already available.
Don’t tell me that NHS Digital was involved!
Even if they were, to produce and implement such a simple system with parts of the required output missing smacks of either sabotage or incompetence on a grand scale. (again).

139464 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Polemon2, #850 of 1566 🔗

I needed to do a QR scan last week to order hotel breakfast. Our phones didnt do QR so we had to fill in a form. They weren’t happy, I think they’d have wanted us starved.

139251 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #851 of 1566 🔗

Noticed that salaries are dropping quite drastically at the moment.

Spotted adverts for HGV 1 drivers for £9.25-9.50/hr which is pathetic.

At the recent training course we discussed this and all said we’ll leave the industry for one that pays the same but without all the hassles with CPCs, medicals, DVSA stops, keeping track of hours to avoid fines and so on.

It’s bad enough drivers on £12/hr which is what they paid us over 20 years ago so no wage inflation in all that time.

Son’s old company wanting him back from Poland urgently to work as s senior sous chef – offered him £6000 a year less than he was on when he quit. Imagine his answer can’t you.

139307 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #852 of 1566 🔗

Yes, I have noticed the stagnant (or falling in real terms) wages for the past 30 years in most jobs. There seems to be a desire by the state for as much reliance on them as possible also they seem to like high personal debt as this acts like a control mechanism on the population. Seemed to start under New Labour with the tax credits scheme and soaring house prices. The ‘Covid-19’ farce seems to be the excuse to move on to a Universal Basic Income and complete control over a large percentage of the population.

139324 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Darryl, 1, #853 of 1566 🔗

There is a theory that the economy is being shut down to take people’s livelihoods away so that people become dependent on the state through basic income. If the government is the only source of income they have control over you. If you do something the government doesn’t like eg protests, the government can take your income away. If you search “2008 crash stagnant wages” you will see evidence stagnant wages were a cause of the crash.

139255 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 20, #854 of 1566 🔗

If you really want to get depressed and/or angry, look up #SayNoToLockdown
I made the mistake of clicking on it when visiting Carl Heneghan’s Twitter (no update today sadly) and saw it was trending.

About two-thirds of posts are from zombies smugly crowing about how moronic and selfish anyone opposed to lockdown is.

Right now I would quite happily see every single one of them violently murdered, either that or sentenced to solitary confinement in a padded cell, obviously the fate they want for everybody else (presumably including themselves). It’s their inane insistence that people who don’t agree with them are “stupid” and “don’t understand science” that really gets to me.

139257 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Drawde927, 5, #855 of 1566 🔗

Have just returned from Asda, saw two unmuzzled – I am very very angry.

139265 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Drawde927, 6, #856 of 1566 🔗

It’s their inane insistence that people who don’t agree with them are “stupid” and “don’t understand science” that really gets to me.

Yep!! And when challenged they can’t quote a single source. They think they’re some form of higher-being maths genius, because they know what “exponential” means. Yet when you refer to a Gompertz function they glaze over and start reaching for the “conspiracy theorist” card when they realise they’re out of their depth. Painful.

I’m definitely experiencing more receptive views from friends though which is good.

139290 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #857 of 1566 🔗

Just look at where Mayo is relative to a couple of weeks ago. That is why it is so important we welcome dissenting views on this forum (obviously as long as they are respectful).

139291 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Drawde927, 8, #858 of 1566 🔗

No sympathy in future for any of the naysayers that lose their jobs, their houses, their businesses, their marriages etc. You failed to stand up and fight and therefore are instrumental in the dreary outcome.

139318 ▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Victoria, 4, #859 of 1566 🔗

I have been fighting any similar sentiments I find building up in myself.

I find I can convince people far better if I maintain a respect for those people, despite thoroughly disagreeing with them.

This isn’t just an altruistic thing either, convincing others effectively will make the outcomes I want to see more likely.

139352 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tee Ell, 6, #860 of 1566 🔗

I fight that mental battle every day. Before masks became mandatory here I was a lot more sympathetic to people’s fear, but once their fear drove policy in a way that has quashed civil liberties and so negatively impacted my life, I really find it difficult to feel kindly towards them any longer. While I didn’t like seeing people masked up before, I was able to maintain a “to each his/her own” attitude about it and go about my business unmasked. Now I’m physically repulsed seeing people in masks and don’t go into shops because I won’t/can’t wear one (5 minutes is my max). And all of these same people are pushing for mandatory vaccination or otherwise pushing to restrict our participation in civic life if we don’t comply. So now I see it as a war of sorts, and you’re either with me or against me. I also find that facts don’t penetrate with these people. I’m afraid they’re going to have to learn the hard way — lost jobs, kids not getting educated, business shut down, vaccine injury, etc. I agree that convincing others would help all of us, but so many of them are in a constant fear state and are simply in fight or flight mode and not able to think rationally. Which isn’t to say we should stop trying!

139365 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Victoria, 1, #861 of 1566 🔗

Do they not realise that in this era of tracking, there is now a record of their comments, allowing a future anti-lockdown administration to pursue them!

139683 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Drawde927, #862 of 1566 🔗

There is excellent evidence to show twitter bots are rife.
See computing forever youtube channel – towrads the end of a half hour video he covers the bots. And what they say. I spotted devi followers sound insane for her, really outside normal supportive messages. Just so happen that the precise expressions I saw have been written by exposed bots. It really woke me up.

You have been emotionally played – I was.

Try last 10 mins of this for twitter bots

139786 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Drawde927, #863 of 1566 🔗

Agree. I shan’t shed tears for those rich zombies who find their pensions and savings taxed to pay for the spiraling national debt or become as worthless as Zimbabwe’s currency.

They’re complicit in the wholesale destruction of our country as well as being collaborators.

When they try to delete their posts and selfies with muzzles we should be reminding them of their folly all day, every day.

139258 NickR, replying to NickR, 2, #864 of 1566 🔗

Does this graphic help understand the false positive issue?

  • Assume 100,000 tests, 1% of which, 1,000 come out as positive.
  • With a false positive rate of 0.8% we know that 800 of the 100 are false positives, 200 are kosher (but of course we don’t know which are real and which are false).
  • Of the 200 genuine ones only 25% come from the infectious period (people will test positive for about 70 days but let’s assume 60 days to be safe), that’s at max a 15 day period starting a few days after infection, so the 200 positives comes down to 50 possibly contagious samples.
  • Of those 50 contagious samples 75% will be from asymptomatic people who will be highly unlikely to infect anyone so only 25% (13) will be from truly infectious people.

So, from an initial 1,000 positive results it’s quite possible that only 1.3% are likely to be truly contagious.

139285 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to NickR, 1, #865 of 1566 🔗

This is a great graph. I have always struggled with the term ‘asymptomatic people’ in the context of Covid. That should mean they do not have covid.

139292 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 2, #866 of 1566 🔗

It leaves out one important factor : the detection of totally irrelevant RNA fragments as ‘positives’.

139477 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to RickH, #867 of 1566 🔗

No it doesn’t, they are taken care of by only considering the ‘contagious’ 25% (15 day) period near the start of the period when virus is detectable. It ignores the 75% of the time after the end of the contagious period when virus can be detected but is hramless to the testee & others.

139376 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to NickR, #868 of 1566 🔗

Do you have a source for this graph?

140120 ▶▶ Jon G, replying to NickR, #869 of 1566 🔗

Does it not trouble you tha the positive rate is never anywhere near that?

139260 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #870 of 1566 🔗

What has Tobias Ellwood,Jonny Mercer,Math Hancock,Boris Johnson,William Hague,Tony Blair,Jeremy Hunt,Keir Starmer,British Communist Party and Morning Star in common?
They all want zero C-19 and would advocate lockdowns if forced to.
Perhaps the tide is changing on the left in the US? This from Jacobin, a radical pro Sanders platform interviewing among others Kulldorf (one of “normal” epidemiologist not part of Big Pharma’s Project fear) about the pandemic response. Here is a quote from the article before the actual interview


“Efforts to quell the virus have brought additional pain. As of late August, roughly nineteen million Americans were out of work as a result of the pandemic, and food and housing insecurity has increased dramatically. But the pain caused by lockdowns has not been shared equally.
Elites have seen their stock portfolios balloon in value, and many professionals have been able to keep their jobs by working from home. It is the country’s poor and working-class households, particularly those with children, who have borne a disproportionate share of the burden. Lower-income Americans were much more likely to be forced to work in unsafe conditions, to have lost their livelihoods due to business and school shutdowns, or to be unable to learn remotely.”

One of MK answer

 “Yes, I think the lockdown is the worst assault on the working class in half a century, and especially on the urban working class. In effect, we are protecting low-risk college students and young professionals who can work from home at the expense of older, high-risk, working-class people that have no choice but to work, leading to more deaths overall.

139293 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to swedenborg, 3, #871 of 1566 🔗

Definitely encouraging to finally see some dissent in the US from the other side of the political spectrum. I was beginning to think a Trump win in November would be preferable given how the Democrats seem to be 100% behind indefinite lockdown and restrictions.

https://twitter.com/TheEliKlein is a Democrat sceptic whose Twitter feed I discovered yesterday (it also links to the Jacobin article)

139333 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Drawde927, 3, #872 of 1566 🔗

I think it’s too little, too late. Jacobin is a publication of the far left, who I would expect to take a more nuanced view of how the covid restrictions are disproportionately hurting poor and working class people. Early on I thought Trump would lose because of covid, but now I’m not so sure. I’m not American but would have been a Biden voter, however, after all he’s said about masks and lockdowns, I don’t think I could vote for him. All it takes is for enough independents in the right states to vote against the infringement of civil liberties to turn the election back in Trump’s favour. My liberal friends freak out when I suggest that Trump could win again, and I say this as someone who thinks the man is an ignorant, malignant narcissist with the attention span of a fly. So it gives me no pleasure to say that he might be less of a threat than Democrats.

139447 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #873 of 1566 🔗

I’m not American but would have been a Biden voter, however, after all he’s said about masks and lockdowns, I don’t think I could vote for him.

Same here (I even thought Sanders might have been the better choice, except that I doubted most Americans would accept his economic policies) and I agree with your appraisal of Trump! But I think society’s response to the pandemic (not the virus itself) totally eclipses every other issue in the short- and likely medium-term as well. And it seems like the election will effectively decide whether Fauci (and his ilk) or Scott Atlas is in charge of this in the US. No contest for me, whatever I might think about Trump! I’m definitely glad I’m not a US citizen.

139539 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Drawde927, 1, #874 of 1566 🔗

I’ve become a one issue voter and my issue is freedom and the preservation of civil rights. Unfortunately, there is not one politician or party that seems to give a rat’s ass about either of these in Canada.

139549 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #875 of 1566 🔗

I hold the same views in the UK. Freedom above anything. Otherwise what’s the point?

139660 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Drawde927, #876 of 1566 🔗

He’s a fucking pedo

139847 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Drawde927, #877 of 1566 🔗

at least the USA has a written Constitution something Britain should aspire to Trump would be preferable to creepy Joe Biden

139909 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Adam Hiley, #878 of 1566 🔗

Look at this, lol: https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1307754547176067072

‘Get ready for a rough day of reporting on #COVID19 deaths. Apparently 2/3rds of the country just died according to Joe Biden!’

139261 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 4, #880 of 1566 🔗

Coronavirus: German team socially distances by fielding seven players, beaten 37-0

139269 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to 2 pence, 2, #881 of 1566 🔗

You couldn’t make it up! Brilliant!

139268 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #882 of 1566 🔗

Found this article from April 02nd 2020 but plenty more out there:


So why are the NHS putting them onto ventilators again now?

139280 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, #883 of 1566 🔗


139283 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, #884 of 1566 🔗

This has been known for ages.

139295 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #885 of 1566 🔗

It may be that their condition (covid aside) requires life support. Eg brain injury, severe burns, heart attack, stroke. Ventilation might not be good for covid problems, but may be essential to survival for other reasons.

139317 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #886 of 1566 🔗

I know that, you know that as we’re on here so not brainwashed.

But “they” keep reporting them as “covid-19 patients on ventilators” which suggests to the masses that the patient only has covid-19 and absolutely nothing else wrong with them.

More lies and bullshit to push the agenda and shows how short the memory of the masses and politicians are.

139273 Awkward Git, 1, #887 of 1566 🔗

Wonder if there is any link between low money/high patient numbers and high money/low patient numbers?


139274 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #888 of 1566 🔗

The assault on reasonable life continues. Edinburgh live even stooping so low as to use one of my very own phrases – looming spectre. Note the comment about Edinburgh University been called upon – that is reference to students being kicked out of halls and suspended. Lovely little indian summer we are having. EL below more on site:

Meadows packed with rule-flouters again as warm weather draws ‘huge crowds’- causing toilet chaos
One woman described the Meadows this weekend as ‘hoaching’, while another called on Edinburgh University to intervene.

The warm weather this weekend- coupled with the looming spectre of stricter lockdown measures set to be announced on Monday – caused people to flock to the Meadows in Edinburgh city centre; lately a hotbed of anti-social behaviour and rule breaking.

One person who witnessed the crowds took to social media to say:

“I walked through the Meadows last night and just felt thoroughly depressed. Huge groups, no masks, about 70 or 80 mobbed outside Sainsbury’s on Middle Walk. Irresponsible or selfish or both.”

Another passer-by said: “Fair to say folk in the Meadows are interpreting six more widely than one might ordinarily do so.”

139278 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 30, #889 of 1566 🔗

Fair to say the moaners are arseholes, if they don’t like what they see stay the fuck indoors and let us get on with our lives.

139282 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 8, #890 of 1566 🔗

Precisely. Let them wet their knickers in private.

139298 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Basics, 15, #891 of 1566 🔗

EL has it in for the people who don’t buy into all this shite. Their other favourite word is “covidiots”
This rag took great pleasure in reporting on the arrest of the organiser of the no face masks protest the other week there in holyrood park.
I am ashamed of my country & it’s over the top response by sturgeon, there is more draconian measures coming up this week “after they have monitored the weekend’s cases”
It’s bang out of order that this is happening & that there has been no civil unrest in response to it.
This is turning into a turn people against each other exercise now.
This is going to be a dangerous place in the next month or 2.

139314 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to AnotherSceptic, 5, #892 of 1566 🔗

They have increased blatant spite in recent weeks.

‘Coronvirus deniers’ is their term for lockdown skepticsin general not this site. EL see themselves as arrogant narrative builders nothing like reporting events and truth. Junk rag but free without login.

They are part of the attack on our lives.

139338 ▶▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Basics, 5, #893 of 1566 🔗

I agree with you, although until a few weeks ago, they were using the word “covididiots”
They are currently ramping up the “panic buying returning” story right now.

EL is indeed a junk rag.

139329 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Basics, 5, #894 of 1566 🔗

That description of behaviour on the Meadows makes me cheerful rather than depressed.

139470 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Edward, 2, #895 of 1566 🔗

It’s lovely to see. Glorious life.

Yes a bunch of 50 or so 15 year old youths often end the evening in a near riot. But that is a problematic minority of anti social youths not the thousands of others who sit and picnic like a beach. The press love to conflate the two issues. One issue is happiness, stamp that out with a smear.

139390 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 4, #896 of 1566 🔗

Way too much power to hypochondriacs. How dare they try to impose their germo-paranoia on everybody else. The Bastards.

139277 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 19, #897 of 1566 🔗

News from America
AG Barr: Coronavirus lockdowns “greatest intrusion on civil liberties” since slavery
Attorney General William Barr called lockdown measures to prevent the spread of the coronavirus “the greatest intrusion on civil liberties in American history,” comparing it to slavery. He also likened stay-at-home orders to being put under “house arrest” and warned that a medical pandemic “doesn’t give a blank check” to executive rules that infringe on civil liberties.


139286 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Victoria, 8, #898 of 1566 🔗

Try telling that to Sturgeon & Boris.

139299 sky_trees, replying to sky_trees, 45, #899 of 1566 🔗

Farage has pivoted the Brexit party and they have come out against lockdown. He says he’s posting a video on the subject at 5.00pm today.

This feels significant to me, as the Brexit party are the thorn in the side of the Tories that might be able to actually get a shift happening ASAP. It might actually get some Tories to start fighting this nonsense.

I still think there’s space for a ‘Freedom party’ but the Brexit party is big enough, right now, to make a difference. I want them to support a full return to normality ASAP too, but this is a big, big first step.

139308 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to sky_trees, 10, #900 of 1566 🔗

Go Nigel! He is a great speaker and can get a grasp of facts quite quickly.

139332 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to sky_trees, 7, #901 of 1566 🔗

Funny, we at home were only talking about the Brexit party this morning, wondering whether Farage ought to resurrect it and start stirring the shit. I understand he hasn’t been too much against lockdowns, but surely even he can now see where this is all heading.

139420 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to sky_trees, 6, #902 of 1566 🔗

God, I hope so. I e-mailed him this morning after I saw his ‘No to another lockdown’ on Twitter. I said, as I have here, that I hoped he was on manoeuvres because we need someone who can capture the headlines and the public’s attention. And at the moment, I feel he is the only public figure out there who can.

139451 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to sky_trees, 4, #903 of 1566 🔗

At last. Why did it take you so long? Go for it, but know that we are not impressed with your support for lockdown until now.

139452 ▶▶ Basics, replying to sky_trees, 6, #904 of 1566 🔗

Yes. Good news. The numbers who listen to Farage are large. Really good addition to the figure heads who are vocalising skeptism. Is he the single best communicator in politics? He has cut through where a ReesMogg doesn’t.

139858 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to sky_trees, #905 of 1566 🔗

hopefully the Tories will wake up and act against Boris & Hancock removing them preferably i will feel much happier when these two creatures are no longer in office hopefully the Brexit Party will offer a much needed alternative to Labour & the Tories

139906 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Adam Hiley, #906 of 1566 🔗

Brexit party can’t just oust the current government without an election…

Who would you want to see as replacement leader for the time being, out of interest?

139301 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #907 of 1566 🔗

This sis till on PHE’s website:


Status of COVID-19
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK.

139435 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #908 of 1566 🔗

And yet in the form of lockdown it has had astronomical consequences on our health and happiness beyond all rational belief.

139590 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Awkward Git, #909 of 1566 🔗

Because it doesn’t satisfy the definition. And if it did all sufferers would have had to be transferred to 1 of only about 2 designated hospitals for treatment.

139306 Barnabas, 18, #910 of 1566 🔗

Hancock has form for not knowing what he is talking about. In 2015 Andrew Neil savaged him in an interview on the subject of the UK national surplus. Watch Neil expose him ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu4bu6cnT_I ) for not knowing what he was talking about.
The attitude hasn’t changed has it, reference the interview with Julia Hartley Brewer this week when being questioned about PCR false positives. Either Hancock doesn’t understand or the high PCR test result figures are being used deliberately to bolster their position (sunk cost fallacy).
Back in 2015 he was actually in a position where he could do little harm to the country. Today the situation is very different, where his boss is letting him get on with it (BJ taking no responsibility), even though Hancock is clearly out of his depth.  Hancock’s arrogance and indifference to the fate of the people who’s lives he is ruining is disgraceful.
When this is all over, those who have imposed these vile and evil restrictions on our civil liberties and have purposely used Acts of Parliament to hide themselves from parliamentary scrutiny must be held to account. Someone must take these people to court to face justice.

139309 Adam, replying to Adam, 41, #911 of 1566 🔗

I am bloody livid!! Have learned from my dad today that my grandmother’s care home has locked down again, for at least 4 weeks. She does not comprehend properly what is going on, so she is going to have another extended period without family visits and little understanding why. What this government is doing is viciously fucking cruel. I am so bloody angry!

139320 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Adam, 16, #912 of 1566 🔗

I completely understand. My grandmother lost the will to live after being locked down for so many months and she passed away in July. Granted, she was almost 101 but was doing well and was happy where she was living until it became a prison. Your anger is justified and I wish I had something more helpful to say other than to agree that it’s beyond cruel.

139327 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 12, #913 of 1566 🔗

Thanks, and sorry to hear about yours. Mine is 96, and she was more like a mother to me and my brother too. Had resigned myself to not seeing her again at the start of the last lockdown, but fortunately she held on. Not sure she will this time if it turns into another prolonged lockdown. C***s!!

139348 ▶▶ alw, replying to Adam, 11, #914 of 1566 🔗

And where is the CQC, Care Quality Commission in all this? It is their role to ensure the well-being of those in care homes which includes residents being able to receive visitors? Another quango for the bonfire.

139358 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to alw, 9, #915 of 1566 🔗

Yep, completely silent, like all the other groups, such as human rights groups etc, who should be yelling at the tops of their voices about these destructive, downright evil measures.

139673 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Adam, #916 of 1566 🔗

You may feeling like writing to David above the line in Toby & Will’s part. David is investigating carehomes for LS, he’s looking for personal evidence.

139397 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Adam, 6, #917 of 1566 🔗

How much longer are we supposed to stand for this.

139410 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Adam, 6, #918 of 1566 🔗

Someone above asked what can we do to stop this disgraceful attack on our liberties taking place.

Blood on the streets, families smashing their way into care homes and refusing to accept the rules and bullshit, only then will people listen and we can see what is truly going on in care homes and how it is affecting the elderly.

139878 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Adam, 1, #919 of 1566 🔗

Someone very close to me has this week been diagnosed with Cancer , non treatable ,the best the NHS could offer was to tell her children in a corridor !! I aam beyond anger at the sheer torture of making them do this . 15 minutes in a corridor full of people
Cruel and inhumane , I could and have wept for them

139938 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to janis pennance, 1, #920 of 1566 🔗

Sorry to hear that. One of my close friends lost her mum to a brain tumour during lockdown. Devastated doesn’t begin to describe it. Boils my blood what the government have done.

139311 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #921 of 1566 🔗

Looking at this:


What 2nd spike – the graph about hospitalisations at the end is interesting.

Also some good points in this one:


For example:

  • There has also been an increase in rhinovirus activity in school aged children which may account for some of the acute respiratory infection incidents reported.
  • Increases continued to be seen in hospital admission rates for confirmed COVID-19 at national level, particularly in the 85+ year olds by age group and in the North West and Midlands by region.
  • ICU/HDU admission rates increased slightly with highest rates seen in the 45-64 year olds.
  • COVID-19 deaths were stable in week 37 and no excess mortality was observed overall in week 36
  • In some regions the daily numbers of cases in each ethnic group can be small, so minor variations in rates should be interpreted with caution.

Quite a bit in the report about flu, colds etc and I get the impression that the rising rates of these (which happen this time every year) are confusing things.

139323 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #922 of 1566 🔗

Increases continued to be seen in hospital admission rates”

… at miniscule absolute levels

139351 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RickH, 1, #923 of 1566 🔗

It was more the 85+ years old age group comment that caught my eye.

139391 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #924 of 1566 🔗

Recent Covid related deaths have been exceptionally concentrated in this area too.

139322 Bob, replying to Bob, 15, #925 of 1566 🔗

I appreciate the government isn’t behaving logically at all, but yet another thing they appear not to comprehend is democracy.

If people aren’t following “the rules”, how can a supposed democrat claim the answer is to impose larger fines? The people have clearly spoken. We tell the government what to do, not the other way around.

Of course they haven’t considered the possibility that their “rules” don’t even achieve their desired reduction in infections when adhered to (which itself is a dubious goal), and that it isn’t the odd “granny-killer” who disobeys that is causing them to fail.

Their response reminds me of a Scooby Doo villain with an obviously absurd aim complaining when it doesn’t go to plan:
“And I would’ve gotten those numbers down if it weren’t for those meddling kids!”

139326 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bob, 19, #926 of 1566 🔗

After six months of accumulating evidence, it’s clear that the ‘rules’ have no basis in science. They are arbitrary impositions by the most venal goverment in living memory.

139396 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bob, 4, #927 of 1566 🔗

Ha, maybe someone will unmask Boris and it would of been the weird looking janitor all along.

Thinking of scooby doo they jumped the shark when scrappy doo was introduced.

Has Boris jumped the shark with lockdown 2 the revenge???

139422 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Bob, 2, #928 of 1566 🔗

We tell the government what to do, not the other way around.” Try telling that to everyone that tried to scupper Brexit!!!

139429 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bob, 4, #929 of 1566 🔗

If infections rise, we’re not following the rules. It couldn’t possibly be that the idiotic made-up rules don’t actually work against a microscopic viral particle, oh no. Answer: impose more rules that still don’t work and blame the public for not following those rules either. Endgame: tell them to stay at home forever more and fine the sh*t out of them just to make their lives even more miserable.

139530 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to A. Contrarian, #930 of 1566 🔗

Exactly right. As Einstein said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. This certainly fits the definition of insanity, and heaven forbid any of these lame politicians question whether a virus can be stopped by all of these ridiculous methods when the actual evidence is quite clear.

139622 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Bob, #931 of 1566 🔗

Death and pestilence on them all.

139325 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 16, #932 of 1566 🔗

Great article Telegraph highlighted in LS today…

So true – earlier in the year the ‘Ferguson think” experts were dooming Sweden to streets full of dead bodies for not complying with the CCP lockdown experiment.

Now that Sweden has faired very well (but could have done better in nursing homes, etc) the same experts are claiming that – well – the Swedes are just different, they comply with rules, live alone, and spin, bullshit, bla bla bla bollocks….

These so called experts are extremely dangerous as they refuse to accept that they were wrong and will be dishonest themselves and everyone else – they are not fit for purpose

(I seem to remember twitty witty or the imbalanced vallance saying that the sensible guidelines (wash hands regularly, stay at home if symptoms, work from home if possible, don’t wear a mask, etc) were having an effect and working before Doris’s political panic lockdown)

139387 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 6, #933 of 1566 🔗

Over 70% of Sweden’s dead were either in care homes or having some kind of council care support in their own homes. A few weeks ago the numbers of dead here without co-morbidities was quoted as 872. So yes, they could have done better with care homes but otherwise the recommendations have worked…

139442 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Major Panic, 2, #934 of 1566 🔗

The wash your hands message is no longer advertised. Why not?

139953 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #935 of 1566 🔗

There’s a rash of stickers all over public places, instructing adults how to wash their hands.

139521 ▶▶ Will, replying to Major Panic, 1, #936 of 1566 🔗

The peak of infections was, at a minimum, on the 18th March, 5 days before STUPID DAY, some people have it even earlier.

139328 court, replying to court, 23, #937 of 1566 🔗

Popped onto Twitter to see the responses to Handcocks latest ditty and it seems he’s getting well ratio’d by people who have had enough. There’s the odd person asking for full lockdown etc but the large majority have had enough of him and his threats. I think this could be the ‘tipping point’ as he so eloquently puts it.

139343 ▶▶ alw, replying to court, 18, #938 of 1566 🔗

Out and about in London today. Buzzing with people who have had enough. Second lockdown will not be tolerated.

139835 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to alw, 1, #939 of 1566 🔗

Yep. Went to Gunnersbury Park today – no antisocial distancing, coffee shops taking cash and only spotted three people wearing muzzles.

I think there will be rioting if an second lockdown is imposed.

139353 ▶▶ DRW, replying to court, 12, #940 of 1566 🔗

I want to believe we’re close to that tipping point but I don’t want to risk being optimistic and getting disappointed even more.

139438 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DRW, 3, #941 of 1566 🔗

That’s a good trait to develop in all things – from rice pudding up.

139871 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to court, 1, #942 of 1566 🔗

there is definately a mood growing against this god awful Government & it’s compliant LibLabSNP opposition lots of People are getting angry

139334 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #943 of 1566 🔗

What an absolutely scandalous comparison (Telegraph live feed):

Selfless battle of Britain’s heroes and NHS staff hailed at anniversary service

Parallels were drawn between the heroism of The Few and modern-day NHS staff and key workers who face a “fight against an invisible army” at a small and intimate service at Westminster Abbey marking the 80th anniversary of the Battle of Britain.

The annual Sunday service usually attracts around 2,200 people to the London landmark as the UK commemorates the first battle in history fought entirely in the air during the Second World War.

This year’s service, which is the venue’s first since lockdown, saw attendance significantly reduced and social distancing measures in place for 79 invited guests.

Chairs for the guests, who were all wearing a face covering, were placed at the transepts of the church close to the altar.

139354 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 18, #944 of 1566 🔗

Total bollocks. I’m not knocking individual staff. Quite the contrary – but the NHS has rarely had less pressure than over the last six months of this shit-show when the expected disaster didn’t occur, but hospitals in general had been put on hold.

139356 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 24, #945 of 1566 🔗

Oh … and the Battle of Britain was about preserving democracy – not crushing it.

139384 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Tenchy, 6, #946 of 1566 🔗

Also Lord Ashcroft in Mail today with article on 80th anniversary of George Cross that these should be awarded to NHS workers for their selfless….etc etc et bloody cetera.

note Ashcroft is millionaire collector of Victoria Crosses , He has dozens. But did not earn one. Makes sense he thinks NHS should have some medals. They didnt earn them either

139532 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tenchy, 4, #947 of 1566 🔗

Aside from a tiny minority, the NHS have been doing f’ck all for months. Not necessarily their fault as PHE are beyond useless.

139946 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #948 of 1566 🔗

Ah, I wondered what had tempted de Piffle into church!

139336 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #949 of 1566 🔗

Is it me who’s “that side out” today?

My sense of humour is clearly very different from Toby’s. I found nothing to make me laugh in Cosmo Landesman’s horrible piece, though the comments are more encouraging!

I’ve spent a lot of time in the DT comments on the links posted by Toby. It feels like a lost cause in there today and not because of obvious trolls. Mark Woolhouse is waiting for a vaccine and testing. He never mentions reliability or false positives! Janet Daley, bless her, is one of the first journalists to decry our loss of democracy but the comments are overcome by a pointless Brexit debate, rabid racists and all.

The first half of this article, on the other hand, made me feel much better, as de PIffle gets a taste of his own medicine – albeit at 37.5 thousand times more than those on UC: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8750253/Subdued-Boris-Johnson-worries-money-salary-shrunk-150k.html

….you can see it even in some of his public appearances – the sort of misery etched on his face. He doesn’t seem to be enjoying being at the helm in rough seas,’ a Tory said.


139412 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #950 of 1566 🔗

I had the impression – maybe wrong – that over the last week or so the tone of the comments is now close to 100% sceptical and critical of the Government.
(having said that I don’t spend much time reading comments – usually just skim-read the first page on each article to get an idea of the mood)

139943 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Drawde927, #951 of 1566 🔗

The comments are usually encouraging and very scathingly sceptical. I think there were a lot of trolls about with nothing better to do this morning. The bedwettery was quite depressing.

139461 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #952 of 1566 🔗

OMG! He can’t afford his nanny! What will he do!

Perhaps he could attempt to put himself in the shoes of somebody self-employed who has had no work since March and faces a winter of lockdown and can barely afford to feed himself and keep a roof over his head let alone employ two unnecessary members of staff!

And as for having to support 4 children – he did have some sort of choice about how many children he fathered and subsequently abandoned, didn’t he?

139882 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #953 of 1566 🔗

delighted this Government is getting rattled especially Doris and Hand in Cock

139337 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #954 of 1566 🔗

Latest NHS hospital data for England;
Total number of Covid19 Hospital patients 19th Sept 1048 20th Sept 1141 increase of 93
Total number on ventilators 19th Sept 123 20th Sept 142 increase of 19

Hardly a disaster but in the current febrile atmosphere I rather suspect these figures will strengthen the call for tighter lock-down.

139344 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #955 of 1566 🔗

I wonder how that compares to this time last year, and the year before

139377 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 3, #956 of 1566 🔗

Yes, context is very important here!

139423 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Major Panic, 1, #957 of 1566 🔗

Agreed. I would really like to know how much the overall level of hospitalisations and deaths (for all causes, or at least for all infectious disease) has been increasing lately, and if it is more or less the same as (a) the apparent increase in the same for Covid and (b) the rate from previous years.

I suspect that most of the apparent increase is just the normal seasonal trend in illness and death, likely aggravated by the false-positive issue (though I think the NHS Pillar 1 tests are more reliable, with a lower FPR) but would really like to know for sure

139339 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 15, #958 of 1566 🔗

I laid in bed last night unable to sleep as is the norm these days. I was thinking about how we can possibly get out of this tyrannical situation and unfortunately couldn’t find an answer. I don’t really see the demonstrations being the answer, the police will get more heavy handed as time goes on, there is no doubt about that. The government have and end game, whatever that is and I can’t see anything stopping them. The only one possible answer would be for everyone to completely ignore every new diktat thrown our way, that includes businesses refusing to shut down if that comes into play again. Can anyone really see this happening though?. I still come across far too many people who have been totally brain washed, their blindness astonishes me.

I only come on here now and listen to any sensible debates on youtube between right thinking sceptics. I read a comment somewhere saying, this virus doesn’t exist if you turn off your tv, how true is that.

139502 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #959 of 1566 🔗

Throw away your SMART tech would also go a long way to solving all this!

Imagine if everyone just switched it all off and didn’t use it again! Would be over pretty quickly!

How many are prepared to actually do it though? Cake and eat it springs to mind. The age of permanent entertainment, data feeds, self indulgence and intellectual laziness is how it has gone down the last 15 – 20 years. I have watched like a helpless observer watching it all unfold trying to warn people and all I got back was ridicule, abuse and marginalisation. They’re not laughing now!

I remain optimistic however, as there are other forces at work in this world other than dark ones 😉

All you need to do is get a new job. Become a ‘Light Worker’. There are endless vacancies and opportunities to progress, pay’s not great but the benefits are amazing 😉


139347 Adam, replying to Adam, 18, #960 of 1566 🔗

People panic buying again, but doing it online, so no bloody delivery slots. So people self-isolating won’t be able to get stuff in. And they say we’re the selfish ones. Fucking shithouses!!

139400 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Adam, 6, #961 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for the heads-up on this. I’ve just checked now, for Waitrose…hardly anything left for a whole week! I’m going to use my over-65 muscle to see what I can do…over 65’s are supposed to have “priority”! 🙂

139463 ▶▶ fiery, replying to Adam, 5, #962 of 1566 🔗

So selfish twats are ransacking the shops again. I’m certain it’s the sanctimonious mask wearers doing this as they are most likely the biggest group who are privileged enough to stay at home. As someone who works long unsocial hours in a housing project I struggled last time to get food for myself and my terminally ill dog. I’m at the point where I’m ready to confront anyone I see with an over laden shopping trolley.

139350 Edward, replying to Edward, 18, #963 of 1566 🔗

Another draft letter to my MP, at a time when there are stirrings of dissent amongst MPs.


I make no apology for writing again only 11 days after my previous message (in which I urged you to vote against renewal of the Coronavirus Act). In my opinion the Prime Minister’s judgment is now seriously impaired, and he needs to be removed as soon as possible for the sake of the nation as well as the Conservative Party. Irked by his inability to control the virus, he has resorted to blaming the people, and he proposes larger fines and harsher measures possibly resulting in a further lockdown – which would be economically, socially and psychologically disastrous.

In 1945 Hitler raged that the German people had proved unworthy of his leadership. I am not comparing the Prime Minister with the Nazi dictator, but it’s a sign of desperation when a leader blames the people for the failure of his own policies, and desperation results in bad decision-making.
Yours sincerely

139381 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Edward, 6, #964 of 1566 🔗

Good letter, but I suspect that Boris is not really in control – more evil powers at work behind the scenes, so even if he were replaced, any new leader would be expected to merely do the same (lockdowns, covipass, track n trace, etc..)

139775 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Carrie, 1, #965 of 1566 🔗

You may be correct, but I think any disruption within the government is beneficial at present – if they’re arguing amongst themselves they have less opportunity to cause damage elsewhere.

139355 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #966 of 1566 🔗

I didn’t see the linked Spiked article because last time I tried it took me 30 minutes to turn off all the cookies.
However, I came across this comment under the Spectator article flagged up below:

…. As for the Rule of Six, the latest Spiked podcast mentioned that it seems as though that was a figure demanded by the Police in order to make their job easier. If this is true then we have entered a time when the Police do not serve us but dictate the limits of free association; a definite marker of a police state. Let’s not be fooled by the sunny weather and the fact that things look more or less normal; the fact that this is even a possibility in this country is terrifying. We need to be told — honestly, if such a concept still exists in officialdom — who pressured for the Rule of Six. And if it turns out to be Plod we have a bigger problem on our hands than Covid.


139359 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #967 of 1566 🔗

They’ll have to use both hands to count to 6

139430 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, #968 of 1566 🔗

Great post! Shocking!

139370 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #969 of 1566 🔗

Probably posted already but David Kurten made a great speech at yesterday’s rally: https://twitter.com/davidkurten/status/1307611659251445760

139433 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #970 of 1566 🔗

“No to the New Normal!”

There is no justification for more lockdowns, masks, the ‘Rule of 6’, Do Not Resuscitate Orders on the vulnerable elderly, and the continuing destruction of small businesses.

139372 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #971 of 1566 🔗

Week 11 2020 WHO stop recording Influenza deaths. Why?

10 times more British people are recorded by PHE as dying of influenza than of Covid19.

139375 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #972 of 1566 🔗

A rhetorical question – we KNOW why that would be!

139373 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #973 of 1566 🔗

My local Coop is reducing its opening hours again from tomorrow due to stocking and ‘safety’ issues. Could be innocent but hmm.

139382 ▶▶ Biker, replying to nocheesegromit, 9, #974 of 1566 🔗

The Co-op have been the worst supermarket out them all with this. Not to mention they are the dearest shop anywhere to buy anything. Fuck them.

139408 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Biker, 3, #975 of 1566 🔗

They are still persisting with a one-way system in my local which no other supermarket in my local area is doing. It makes no sense considering it’s a large Coop.

139980 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to nocheesegromit, #976 of 1566 🔗

I use my local coop a lot. They never said anything to me about not having mask and they didn’t enforce social distancing. No one way either.

139478 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Biker, 6, #977 of 1566 🔗

I switched to Tesco as they don’t care if I walk about in there with my face hanging out (and I’m not the only one).

139667 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to zacaway, 1, #978 of 1566 🔗

I hesrd Tesco are keeping the NHS worker priority for good. Not sure how this is a good thing in the long run. But it is what I heard.

139434 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #979 of 1566 🔗

Can’t get a delivery slot at Ocado

139484 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Victoria, 1, #980 of 1566 🔗

The supply chains are breaking down, food shortages will come soon. Stock up on dry/canned goods is my advice. I have begun my preparations/

139578 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to nocheesegromit, #981 of 1566 🔗

My local huge Tesco Extra has done the same, back to 10pm closures instead of midnight (they were 24h pre march, but have never gone back to it)

139379 Biker, replying to Biker, 21, #982 of 1566 🔗

Another day under a fascist government. I wonder who will stand up and lead us out of this? Not the soy boys from Labour since they care more about imaginary issues like Racism and wither or not a man is a lady, not the chinless Conservatives whom most of them are hiding their corruption/child fucking/Homosexuality and will do anything their pay masters say, not the liberals because these fuckers have less spine than a Broiler Chicken. If you’re the kind of wanker who doesn’t think this is a giant conspiracy and contend it’s them being useless, there are a few of these tossers on this site then you’re as much as a threat to me as they are. This ends one way with the police murdering those of us who object. This is the End Times and there ain’t no fucking jesus coming to save us. They’re gonna kill us or inject us which is the same thing.

139437 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Biker, 3, #983 of 1566 🔗

Yes labour is a lot case. You cannot call them opposition.

139479 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Biker, 1, #984 of 1566 🔗

Well said Brother!

Aye it’s all just a big case of political incompetence! hahaha

I am thinking the ‘wankers’ you refer to are infiltrators from 77th or whatever to try and direct the narrative toward this explanation in order to do the old sleight of hand trick away from the REAL story.
Stay away from that curtain over there…..ignore that man pulling those levers over there, keep looking at me! Try and do damage limitation if this attempt at implementing another stage in the human enslavement programme falls by the way side. These fuckers are thorough and meticulous if nothing else.


As usual, Max is on the button and explains with the help of a few clips mixed in.

I am now of the opinion the ‘big switch’ has already happened and continues happening. Have you seen Bill Gates’ ehhhh…..’wife’? The replacement programme is under way. These state/establishment/media actors are foothold agents. They are not human.

Sadly, most will be fodder on the way to a totalitarian AI controlled technocracy.



139525 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to B Boru, 3, #985 of 1566 🔗

The best advice you can give to anyone these days is what you recommend throwing away.

139405 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #986 of 1566 🔗

EL local online paper has a report saying panic buying has begun. Supermarkets reporting higher than normal spends.

139416 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 5, #987 of 1566 🔗

so that will be why they are talking about bringing the soldiers in ,, to stop the riots in Morrisons.
But seriously (through my tinfoil helmet)
panic buying > food shortages > civil unrest > military on street > martial law.

139419 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to mjr, 4, #988 of 1566 🔗

Correct, the game plan from day 1.

139417 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 5, #989 of 1566 🔗

It really is just like March again.

139413 Salopian, 5, #990 of 1566 🔗

The second wave of hysteria was presaged by usual bbc phrases such as ‘increasing concern that ‘and ‘sharp uptickof cases’
Despite none of this being true
Then new rules come in regardless of facts
I am looking forward to the third wave this winter
Maybe to pass the long winter nights we should play Covid bingo filling our cards with the catch phrases of fear

139414 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 6, #991 of 1566 🔗

The death statistics are still potentially dodgy, in a way that is convenient for the government.
Buried deep in a newspaper article the other day, I found a report of a man who had died in March but, presumably because he died at home and had not been seen by a doctor, an inquest had only just been held to establish the cause of death. I assume that inquests were not held during the lockdown and the backlog is only now being addressed.
So, of the 20 odd deaths that are currently being reported daily, how many have actually died in the last 28 days, which is what we are expected to assume, and how many died months ago but their cause of death has only just been established?!

139657 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Caroline Watson, #992 of 1566 🔗

Autopsies have continued. Google the LANCET for the recent report of 60+ carried out in Oxford (JR Hospital) for details of theirs.

139418 stefarm, 31, #993 of 1566 🔗

I’ve done my yoga and I’m now sitting in the garden drinking a cold beer whilst the roast potatoes are in the oven enjoying the last September sun listening to the birds. Wonderful!

At the back of my mind is the devastation the spineless cunts in power have bestowed on us, fucking disgrace.

139426 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #994 of 1566 🔗

Nice little walk out in The Lincolnshire Wolds this afternoon, all very pleasant trees are laden with berries, wildlife should have a good winter.

Then I saw this thing in the grass a the side of the track.

These nasty things are getting everywhere, so much for trying to reduce the plastic waste.

I saw a few other walkers, non masked as you will imaging, I honestly cannot believe a farmer would be on his tractor or combine wearing a muzzle.

139439 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Dave #KBF, 9, #995 of 1566 🔗

Where I grew up, and this makes me sick. I see them everywhere, and it’s as bad as seeing used condoms on the floor in my opinion.

139510 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Adam, 4, #996 of 1566 🔗

Worse. At least a used condom is a sign someone had fun. A used mask is a sign of someone’s compliance. I’ll give you that both are equally gross from a practical perspective and should be disposed of properly!

139446 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #997 of 1566 🔗

It’s bizarre how since Blue Planet 2, everyone’s been on the ‘plastic is bad’ message. Now that there’s a virus barely more serious than the flu then it’s ok to increase plastic pollution again?! I have seen a few reusable masks on the floor too which is even more disgusting considering many of them won’t have been washed!

139500 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, #998 of 1566 🔗

New boots okay?

139504 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 1, #999 of 1566 🔗

Fantastic thanks, they will be getting plenty of use, not going to be locked indoors.

139501 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1000 of 1566 🔗

Just back from a walk in the New Forest and unfortunately saw a discarded mask in the gorse when I went for a quick wee. Notmally if I see litter when I am out walking I pick it up but I wasn’t sure whether this mask had been used as substitute loo paper.

139432 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 8, #1001 of 1566 🔗

In slightly more lighthearted news, Mark Labett (‘The Beast’ on the quiz show The Chase) is coming out as a lockdown sceptic on Twitter. He’s retweeting loads of stuff and has tweeted #SayNotoLockdown

139547 ▶▶ mjr, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1002 of 1566 🔗

Good old Mark… He was a Maths teacher before he became a quiz pro so he will have seen through the stats . Similarly i would hope that the others come out.. Paul Sinha is a qualified GP and so should have an idea of what’s what . Plus it also buggers up the quizzing circuit …. and the virtual quizzes via zoom etc arent the same .

139440 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 21, #1003 of 1566 🔗

Just came home from work and one headline on the MSN news site says Sir Graham Brady, chair of the 1922 committee, is against the extension of the corona act from March.

I immediately sent an e-mail to his parliament address to congratulate him and make my view heard, urging him to vote against the extension.

139450 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Silke David, 3, #1004 of 1566 🔗

It’s a start but we need a couple of hundred more to prevent the extension.

139458 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Achilles, 1, #1005 of 1566 🔗

I was planning on composing a letter too.

139456 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Silke David, 1, #1006 of 1566 🔗

I’ve emailed him too – forgot to ask him to vote against it (d’oh) but will email my backbench Tory MP later.

139475 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Silke David, 3, #1007 of 1566 🔗

I emailed my (Lab) MP a week ago asking them to oppose extending it (even pointed to the Liberty campaign against it). No reply.

139571 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to zacaway, #1008 of 1566 🔗

I’ve emailed my Labour MP multiple times about virus stuff over the last few weeks (I’m a student so I have the pleasure of contacting both my Tory backbencher at my home address and the Labour MP at uni). No replies at all other than one acknowledgement. You’d think they’d reply just to shut me up!

139441 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 9, #1009 of 1566 🔗

Nigel Farage has come out as a sceptic – having a pop at Handycock:

139445 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to zacaway, 6, #1010 of 1566 🔗

Not impressed – where’s he been for the past 6 months?

139468 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to BTLnewbie, 9, #1011 of 1566 🔗

Sitting in the fence waiting for an opportunity. Better late than never though – he has a lot of influence so could be useful.

139480 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to BTLnewbie, 11, #1012 of 1566 🔗

As always he’ll only back anything he feels he can get some personal political capital from (and usually financial gain)… So in that sense I’m happy he’s eventually reared his head, even if I do think he’s a self serving bellend, as it’s a positive sign he senses the public mood shifting.

139492 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Mark II, 6, #1013 of 1566 🔗

The other side has plenty of self-serving bellends, so perhaps it’s good to get one of our own.

139567 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to zacaway, 3, #1014 of 1566 🔗

Of course, just need to be prepared for him to disappear the moment the tide turns or he gets a better offer elsewhere

139498 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BTLnewbie, 5, #1015 of 1566 🔗

Could not agree more. But I’m still glad he’s appeared. Still don’t need to trust him.

Politics is strange perhaps the anger needs to have built before Farage felt he has something to work with. On board too soon and may be the givernment coukd have flicked off the populist granny killer easily? Maybe, maybe not.

A good addition to the side.

139515 ▶▶▶ Andy C, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #1016 of 1566 🔗

Missing in action, dealing with what’s become a side-issue on the Kent coast.

139562 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Andy C, 7, #1017 of 1566 🔗

Except that it’s not really a side-issue to allow thousands of people into the country who have no real right to be here, and who are a huge financial drain on resources at a time of economic crisis.. Serco have just been awarded yet another huge contract and that is taxpayer’s money being wasted…

139633 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Carrie, 2, #1018 of 1566 🔗

and dont forget those that Channel 4 keep bringing in on their giant metal logo ….. that really annoys me

139746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, #1019 of 1566 🔗

What do you mean?

140011 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Carrie, #1020 of 1566 🔗
139842 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Carrie, 1, #1021 of 1566 🔗

Agree, and it is relevant. It was the spectacle of increasing landings of refugees from the Macron regime that led many people to twig that the government was larping (live action role playing) the Covid ‘crisis.’ If the rona was that awful, Bojo could and should have got a handle on border security at the very start. But he just did the easy and uncontroversial things, like putting proles under house arrest. That was a big early clue.

139899 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, #1022 of 1566 🔗

Glad you told me what ‘larping’ was – not heard that word before!

140074 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Ovis, 1, #1023 of 1566 🔗

Obvious thing to do early on is to get a handle on border security, of course. To be totally fair though, – it really is not that easy: there was an Italian virologist who went public quite early on, said the country’s response was crippled due to threats of being accused of racism… I believe the EU in March/early April said they would sue us because lock-down would infringe FoM; and the BBC definitely reported at least 2 people were arrested and charged by police for ‘racially aggravated hate crimes’ as they were criticizing open borders at a time when the food outlets & leisure industry was shut down over here…

139488 ▶▶ Mark, replying to zacaway, 5, #1024 of 1566 🔗

Good that he’s now pushing in the right direction. Very disappointed in him though. He fell for the whole panic, and he’s a day late and a dollar short with his criticism of the panic.

But as I said, at least he’s pushing roughly in the right direction now. There are a lot of people who listen to him and his coming out will give them permission to turn.

139648 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Mark, #1025 of 1566 🔗

makes a change from trying to shamelessly overturn Brexit all MP’s must defend Our way of life and stop Government overreach We need a new Constitution now in a federal system

139491 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to zacaway, 9, #1026 of 1566 🔗

Great video.

A second national lockdown would be a complete and utter catastrophe for our country. We have reached the point now where the cure has become worse than the disease itself.

All should watch and distribute.Farage makes a lot of sense and stated that we should all contact our MP and tell them to vote against the extension next week. Also to say the right things for opinion polls.

Nigel it took you long enough to wake up. Glad you did, but you are still not excused for your silence up to now.

139552 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, 2, #1027 of 1566 🔗

Good idea. I’ve just written to my useless toady of an MP. Fat lot of good it will do but I may get some amusement out of the weasely reply I expect from one of her lackeys.

139645 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #1028 of 1566 🔗

Experiencing pleasurable anticipation of your follow up reply to same.

139505 ▶▶ Barnabas, replying to zacaway, 7, #1029 of 1566 🔗

Finally, we have a political figure with gravitas who is taking our side. Like him or not his message is correct. Yes, I have been disappointed by his position up to now, but at last he has realised that enough is enough and that the government cannot be allowed to take us further down the road of ruin. We must share this message.

139518 ▶▶ Basics, replying to zacaway, 5, #1030 of 1566 🔗

22k views in 48 minutes.

139523 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to zacaway, 4, #1031 of 1566 🔗

At the very least it might get some of the sheep to finally start asking questions.

139538 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to zacaway, 2, #1032 of 1566 🔗

In a way, I take that as a good sign that he has read the people and is positioning himself to benefit.

139722 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #1033 of 1566 🔗

He is a populist so he must think his position is popular.

139558 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to zacaway, 4, #1034 of 1566 🔗

That’s not sceptisicism. It’s saying that he’s fed up with the rules, not because he sceptical about the science and data being used to portray the plague, but because he’s fed up with the rules.

It’s still a good thing as it builds the case for the CV Act to be rejected for more parliamentary control. However it is but scratching the surface.

139583 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to zacaway, -1, #1035 of 1566 🔗

Don’t like him controlled spiv

139596 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to zacaway, #1036 of 1566 🔗

Too late, country is f*cked now!

139453 Norma McNormalface, replying to Norma McNormalface, 23, #1037 of 1566 🔗

Hancock says the public aren’t following the rules. His response is to introduce more, and stricter rules. The situation now feels like a classroom ‘telling off’ with after school-detention for everyone until the culprits own up. Has it occurred to him to ask himself why people aren’t following the rules? Surely it is any combination of the following:

  1. People do not feel at risk (the reasons for which are well known to us sceptics) and so they feel the rules aren’t warranted.
  2. The rules are impractical and unsustainable. People need to go about their lives and earn a living (The rules are made by people with financial and job security who have no empathy and no understanding of their impact on the ground).
  3. The government’s tone has become too authoritarian and mean-spiritied, and the rules now feel more punitive than ever. People don’t like that.

The £500 bonus to self-isolate is some compensation, but couldn’t that also incentivise people on lowish incomes to be less cautious, knowing that if they come into contact with the virus, the worst that will probably happen is a couple of paid weeks off work, with posssibly no or mild symptoms? Just a thought. Everything this government does backfires, so I doubt the latest battery of interventions will be any different.

139460 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Norma McNormalface, 13, #1038 of 1566 🔗

4 The rules don’t make the slightest bit of sense.

139473 ▶▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Achilles, 9, #1039 of 1566 🔗

Oh yes. Thank you Achilles. I forgot that. So yes. Number 4 is: There are too many inconsistencies in the rules. Pubs before 10pm good. Pubs after 10pm bad. 30 school kids crammed into the bus = OK. 7 pre-schoolers in the back garden = not OK (etc.).

139482 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Norma McNormalface, 12, #1040 of 1566 🔗

We all did our bit, 3 weeks to flatten the curve. It the Gov that hasn’t done it’s bit, they never ended the lockdown and now you have a country that is drained by all of this. It reminds me of a football team where the manager has lost the dressing room, the team no longer has any desire to do what the manager wants.

139566 ▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to JohnB, 7, #1041 of 1566 🔗

This government is imploding.

Just look at most of them. They all look like they need a good night’s sleep.

The Wartime Coalition this is not. Very low calibre bunch.

139579 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Stephen, 5, #1042 of 1566 🔗

They should all get a fucking bullet

139593 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stephen, 2, #1043 of 1566 🔗

They shouldn’t need any sleep, all they’ve done is have holidays throughout this supposed pandemic.

139554 ▶▶ dorset dumpling, replying to Norma McNormalface, 1, #1044 of 1566 🔗

Your comment about a classroom telling off with after school detentions for everyone until the culprits own up reminds me of when I was training to be a teacher, many decades ago, one of the tutors frequently told us, “Hate to oppose the group.” Same situation now, everyone being punished when few are to blame.

139894 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Norma McNormalface, #1045 of 1566 🔗

i would happily headbut Hancock if i ever encountered Him

139455 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 8, #1046 of 1566 🔗

I’m sure others have pointed this out, but why is Sweden on the list of countries you can visit, when it didn’t have lockdown and is open for business?

139459 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #1047 of 1566 🔗

Because of its culture/sparse population/Swedes are naturally compliant/they did have lockdown really… have I missed any?

139465 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1048 of 1566 🔗

Because the prevalence of the virus is so low..

139469 ▶▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1049 of 1566 🔗

Japan’s open for travel and they have a densely packed population.

139472 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Smelly Melly, 4, #1050 of 1566 🔗

I know, I’m just reeling off the usual excuses for Sweden having no lockdown and being in a good position.

139524 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Smelly Melly, 1, #1051 of 1566 🔗

Masks!!!!!!!! Duhhhhh keep up!!!!

139535 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #1052 of 1566 🔗

I’ve seen the cultural argument used for there too because they’re big on their personal space.

139556 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 2, #1053 of 1566 🔗

Well there is a slightly strange Swedish behaviour of never sitting beside anyone you don’t know on a bus, unless you absolutely have to, but on the other hand they are big on hugs and handshakes among friends..

139561 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Carrie, 2, #1054 of 1566 🔗

Surely than applies to the UK too, especially the south?

139629 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1055 of 1566 🔗
139712 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Carrie, 1, #1056 of 1566 🔗

I’d say that was pretty normal behaviour here in the UK. It would probably be considered odd to sit next to a stranger on public transport if there were empty seats elsewhere…

139707 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Smelly Melly, #1057 of 1566 🔗

Sweden is more urbanised than Spain or France.

139738 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Smelly Melly, #1058 of 1566 🔗

since when? last time I looked no foreigners were allowed in..

139541 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to nocheesegromit, #1059 of 1566 🔗

They’ve all been on holiday is a new one and probably the worst.

140048 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to nocheesegromit, #1060 of 1566 🔗

They did not really have lockdown and population density has been covered in previous articles, deemed as a red herring as Sweden like most countries has 80% of population living in urban areas.

139474 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #1061 of 1566 🔗

The government are probably hoping we go and infect them all to bring Swedens case count up.

139526 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Achilles, 4, #1062 of 1566 🔗

But happily that won’t work given their population immunity!

139594 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #1063 of 1566 🔗

It took a month for Sweden to be taken off the blacklist despite scoring better than UK for all that time.
That was sheer spite because the Swedes valued their economy and younger people.

139809 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nessimmersion, #1064 of 1566 🔗

I’m wondering how long before the Swedish Foreign office put the UK back on the list of countries they do not recommend travelling to?
They only took them off the list about a week ago, but if the UK locks down again then the Swedish Foreign office will put them back on it..

139466 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 9, #1065 of 1566 🔗

So it’s two weeks now since the sudden spike on 6th September that led to the “rule of six” and all recent rhetoric.

The number that day was 2889 if I recall.

Exponential growth from 2889 is NOT where find ourselves today nor the rolling 7 day average.

139481 ▶▶ DRW, replying to hotrod, 3, #1066 of 1566 🔗

We’re always just two weeks from Italy, oh sorry, France and Spain now.

139493 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to DRW, 5, #1067 of 1566 🔗

We’re always two weeks away from armageddon if we don’t do what we’re being asked to do that day. Policy led by fear of the bogeyman.

139595 ▶▶ guy153, replying to hotrod, 2, #1068 of 1566 🔗

If it was growing exponentially at the rate it did at the start and does in any highly susceptible population, that 2889 would be around 150,000 by now.

139598 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, 3, #1069 of 1566 🔗

They’ve were claiming it’s actually 38,000 per day during the week, but that is still massively down on their estimations just before lockdown when they said it was over 100,000 a day.

139855 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to JohnB, 1, #1070 of 1566 🔗

I reckon it was probably about 700k a day for a few days at the peak. I also heard rumours of this 38k per day but then when the ONS data came out it turns it out it’s 3k a day in most places (as it has been all summer) and has gone up to about 6k in a couple of other places.

139476 hotrod, 5, #1071 of 1566 🔗

This women is seriously dangerous.


Her and Susan Michie.

Does the Conservative party really want to let these people define its policies.

139489 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 22, #1072 of 1566 🔗

In our lovely rural area we’ve just spent some time in the local pub garden. We’re a group of 5. The people at the next table ( we know them) were a group of 7 so we agreed that should anyone come looking one of them would hop over the lavender bush and join our group! It was lovely, just like normal. Xx

139537 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Suitejb, 9, #1073 of 1566 🔗

normal as in preparing an excuse just in case the armed wing of the Government appear and shout verboten at you and you need to make an excuse.

139732 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Biker, 2, #1074 of 1566 🔗

We weren’t taking it seriously, it wasn’t likely to happen as most people can’t even find our village!

139496 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 16, #1075 of 1566 🔗


BLM activists have just blocked Oxford Circus and stopped all cars. And guess what the police are doing.

Nope, they’re not shutting down this illegal protest. They’ve just stood there watching them.

139517 ▶▶ Barnabas, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1076 of 1566 🔗

Please forward to Simon Dolan, Toby Young, Alison Pearson et al. on Twitter.

139519 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1077 of 1566 🔗

Cut the BLM activists some slack, they’re made up of fragile blacks claiming victim hood and lefty wankers so full of soy that even their woman have man tits

139586 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 5, #1078 of 1566 🔗

They’re 80% white!

139626 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, 4, #1079 of 1566 🔗

but they identify as black

139540 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1080 of 1566 🔗

That’s because they are wearing face nappies.

139565 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1081 of 1566 🔗

I see from the banner they are now “All Black Lives Matter UK”. To try and disassociate themselves from BLM.. ABLMUK is so catchy. … Now if they just cross through the “Black” i will support them

139574 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Sarigan, #1082 of 1566 🔗

Pig wankers

139506 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 24, #1083 of 1566 🔗

Went on my first Ramblers walk since March today. Got chatting to someone who works in cardiology dept at the local (large) hospital. She says it’s a total disaster. They have such a massive backlog of procedures to do. They are working 7 days a week and evenings but they have a massive reduction in beds. However here are just 2 covid patients in the whole hospital, both in for other things but tested positive. No ICU cases for months.

139551 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bumble, 3, #1084 of 1566 🔗

Whereabouts in the country is that? My mum is in Surrey waiting for a cardiac procedure that she needed months ago… they are saying she will ‘hopefully’ get it near Christmas…

139563 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Carrie, 1, #1085 of 1566 🔗


139597 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bumble, #1086 of 1566 🔗

That corresponds with my perceptions of what is happening.

139638 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to RickH, #1087 of 1566 🔗

Lists are still growing despite the extra working hours, albeit at a slower pace. Many will die before getting their procedures.

139699 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Bumble, 1, #1088 of 1566 🔗

My daughter’s paediatrician was having his appointments limited by PHE, he didn’t have a clue why. The hospitals have been empty for months and that includes the hospitals in lockdown Leicester.

139802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, #1089 of 1566 🔗

That needs investigating..

139603 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bumble, 8, #1090 of 1566 🔗

That’s the same as what the acute care nurse from Brighton said on Talk Radio last week, no COVID patient since May, but seeing abnormal amounts of people self harming, overdosing, and trying to commit suicide.

139642 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Bumble, 5, #1091 of 1566 🔗

She also said that they had worked really hard to contact and speak to all their patients during lockdown. However, other departments had not bothered. Patients just abandoned.

The whole hospital was emptied in March and converted into an acute respiratory centre. They were told to prepare for armageddon on Easter Monday. She went into work on the Tuesday and it was deserted and they never had more than a few patients.

139791 ▶▶ TJS123, replying to Bumble, 2, #1092 of 1566 🔗

I took some of my former Ramblers for a walk today – we have decided to close the group and walk independently as we’ve been doing for months now, as we’re not prepared to buy into the ridiculous restrictions and onerous requirements that are demanded by Central Office. We’ve been walking free and it feels wonderful! Am also in the NHS and agree with all below – our department has tried to keep going and we are working our socks off to contact and advise patients and GP’s, to try to keep patients safe (the irony is that they’re even more at risk from their other conditions due to the “keep them safe” mantra) but we are still denied the use of clinic rooms to try to get back to normal outpatient appointments. Harm is being caused no matter how we try to avoid it.

139508 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1093 of 1566 🔗

Now people are basing their holiday plans on vaccine. This from a client:

Just a note to say that, vaccine permitting, we are planning to take two trips next year,in May/June and sept/Oct.
I will not bother you until we have some certainty.

139514 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1094 of 1566 🔗

That’ the PSYOP effect now taking hold. What you are witnessing is a giant MK Ultra programme unfolding. Except more advanced and effective with the aid of personal SMART technology.

Neuro Linguistic Programming
Trauma Based Mind Control
Hypnotic Suggestion Technique (i.e. repeat repeat repeat)

Train your mind to resist 😉


139528 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1095 of 1566 🔗

LOL! So what if there’s never a vaccine?

139533 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1096 of 1566 🔗

I need a new career!

139602 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, #1097 of 1566 🔗

Stop being technical and realistic.

… apart from the fact that you’d have to be barmy to gobble up an under-tested novel vaccine.

139604 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1098 of 1566 🔗

They won’t go on holiday ever again!

139509 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #1099 of 1566 🔗

Someone was keen to know about where we are in relation to peak lunacy. Here is a data point to plot.

The Scottish Greens have called for next year’s school exams to be cancelled.

139536 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Basics, 4, #1100 of 1566 🔗

Well we’re in for a long haul if there isn’t a complete societal breakdown first.
Irish Times yesterday: Ireland facing at least another year living with Covid-19 – Taoiseach
BBC today – Longleat Enterprises said Cheddar Caves and Gorge would not re-open this year and it “could not seeing that changing in 2021”.
“The effect of the pandemic on our operations has been profound,” it said.
The staff, all based at Cheddar, will now be entering into a formal redundancy process.

139651 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to godowneasy, #1101 of 1566 🔗

We need to live with it – im guessing the article was a vaccine marketing ad.

Are zoos green? I always thought of them as loss leaders for the animal world. Some in captivity to help keep others free and protected. Maybe zoos are not getting financial favouritism in the antigreat reset.

139548 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 12, #1102 of 1566 🔗

Have you seen the little soy boy that runs the Scottish greens? he’s such a fucking weasel that even his mother must curse the day she birthed him. The fucker wants to take away my petrol motorbikes and make me a Lycra fag cycling everywhere like it’s the Tour de fucking France

139637 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Biker, 5, #1103 of 1566 🔗

Dont ever leave this website – you are pure class!

139659 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, #1104 of 1566 🔗

I have had dealings with the other leader (are there two?) Supremely shitty encounters of frankly life altering proportions but when I dared to mention I wasn’t so pleased sbout the consequences of thier conduct towards me and my family it became silence and still is.

What do you call a Scottish Green party leader at the bottom of the sea?

139754 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 1, #1105 of 1566 🔗

An improvement?

139942 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nessimmersion, #1106 of 1566 🔗

A start.

139605 ▶▶ mjr, replying to hotrod, 5, #1108 of 1566 🔗

WHAT ????? a liberal MP with a policy!!!!! and a sensible one at that . Picks jaw up from the floor.

139640 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to hotrod, 1, #1109 of 1566 🔗

Ed Davey did so much damage pushing through Climate Change policies that this means the shit must really be hitting the fan

139516 TJN, replying to TJN, 16, #1110 of 1566 🔗

Absolutely appalling article on the Telegraph website by Bernard Jenkin MP.


A few quotes:

The predicament facing the Government in its response to Covid is not fundamentally one of policy; it is one of logistics and implementation …

It is horribly apparent that the UK infection rate is heading for a second peak, that testing capacity is falling far short of demand …

Unless we can locate the virus and isolate its carriers, the disease will spread. And unless we can test enough people and trace their contacts, we cannot stop transmission. The predicament facing the Government is not fundamentally one of policy; it is one of logistics and implementation.

when it comes to urgent logistical challenges in this country, the training, tactical imagination and constant preparedness of the Armed Forces is unparalleled.


If the Government is to break the back of this crisis, then the Prime Minister must seize the reins of the state – take back control – and use the fresh capability available to him from the Armed Forces. He will have to confront those who cannot face the fact that they have invested in failing policies. It’s up to him.

God help us all.

139520 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to TJN, 3, #1111 of 1566 🔗

Clearly a member of the death cult!

139544 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to TJN, 5, #1112 of 1566 🔗

Sound horrendous! It must not be allowed to happen..

139545 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to TJN, 5, #1113 of 1566 🔗

Isolate it’s carriers??!! In the gulag??!!

139555 ▶▶ Mark, replying to TJN, 11, #1114 of 1566 🔗

“It is horribly apparent that the UK infection rate is heading for a second peak, that testing capacity is falling far short of demand”

If these men and women are incapable of finding things out for themselves on an issue of this importance, but just soak up the elite groupthink without questioning, what use are they in Parliament?

139720 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Mark, #1115 of 1566 🔗

Not in my neck of the woods it isn’t!

139559 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to TJN, 1, #1116 of 1566 🔗

He needs locking up.

139569 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to TJN, -1, #1117 of 1566 🔗

Another fucking pedo

139573 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jaguarpig, 1, #1118 of 1566 🔗

How do we know that?

139646 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to TJN, #1119 of 1566 🔗

Use the armed forces? For what?

139664 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to mattghg, 1, #1120 of 1566 🔗

What armed forces?

139798 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to mattghg, #1121 of 1566 🔗

Logistics, I guess, and then there would be mission creep.

139708 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to TJN, #1122 of 1566 🔗

Anyone have him as their MP?

139522 mhcp, 8, #1123 of 1566 🔗

It’s interesting that after the damning FAA report on Boeing’s 737 Max there are articles called for the heads of management because safety issues that had been highlighted were ignored as well as hidden from regulators.

And yet anyone involved in this Covid mess using even less precise tools and raw speculation?


139531 Biker, replying to Biker, 47, #1124 of 1566 🔗

How can such men as Hancock and Johnstone hold in their hands the lives of extraordinary men such as myself and other fellow Lockdown Skeptics? How can such creatures like Boris, a fat drugged up womaniser and Hancock a man who looks like he eats a fish supper with no salt tell me what i should do? How can a woman like Sturgeon who has spent a lifetime bitter that she isn’t good looking and has the sex appeal of a whore even Peter Sutcliffe wouldn’t hit with a hammer tell me who i can have on my property? Why is it that people so fucking dumb they joined the Police have any control over my Universe given right to do what the hell i want, when i want and with whom i want? What gives the right of pedophile boy fucking Judges to impose fines on me because i don’t do what Hancock says is the law? Just because some people vote every five years don’t mean shit to me. Just because the Queen sits on her fucking throne because of the tyranny her relatives visited upon people of the past don’t mean i have to respect or do anything these fuckers say. My morals have nothing to do with the loons whom go to church and worship their insane belief in Gods. All in all my right to not give a fuck about any one else is the only thing us humans have.
I have no rights over you, you have no rights over me.
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Asda’s, we shall fight in the pubs and clubs with growing confidence strength in the air, we shall defend our faces, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight them on the football terraces, on the motocross track, we shall fight in the Libraries and on the High Streets, we shall fight in the Studio, we will never surrender. And even if, for which i do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and face covered then Skeptics from our Empire beyond the Stars armed and guarded by Star Fleet would carry on the struggle, until, in Van the Man’s good timing, a New World Order, with all it’s amps and guitars, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

139543 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Biker, 3, #1125 of 1566 🔗

Tremendous 🙂

Blunt Force Trauma is the only way some will understand.

Permission to borrow that Sturgeon descrption….belter 🙂 ‘A face like a riveters knee cap’ was my personal favourite up til now but I think I just got a new winner!


139612 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to B Boru, 11, #1126 of 1566 🔗

No problem. My contempt for Sturgeon is at an all time high. I am dreaming Alex Salmond grabs hold of the Sutcliffe hammer metaphorically speaking off course and gets rid of her. I’m tired of all this pathetic short bread and whisky nationalism. Scotland and England together as one nation ruled the world, invented everything worth inventing almost and still to tis day remains the way the world does everything. Sturgeon isn’t even a bird shit on the head of the statue of Andrew Carnegie

139912 ▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Biker, 1, #1127 of 1566 🔗

united We stand divided We fall Sturgeon and Her ilk must not be allowed to break Britain up

139564 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Biker, 1, #1128 of 1566 🔗

Super, can I nick that?

139904 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Biker, 1, #1129 of 1566 🔗

LMAO love it especially about Sturgeon Hancock and Doris

139542 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 35, #1130 of 1566 🔗

I must say Sweden have been a super trooper through all this. They decided to take a chance. They didn’t just say mamma mia and send out an SOS. They worked out the name of the game pretty early and they’ll be the ones that have a happy new year.

139557 ▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Achilles, #1131 of 1566 🔗

Depends what you mean by “they”: as I understand it, the Swedish constitution meant that the decisions were down to specialists rather than politicians

139560 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Martin Spencer, 7, #1132 of 1566 🔗

Martin, you need to lighten up and get out your old Abba albums

139618 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Martin Spencer, 3, #1133 of 1566 🔗

As I understand it, you are indeed correct, and it’s an important point.

139740 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to TJN, #1134 of 1566 🔗

Except of course that our alleged specialists can’t do statistics and seem to be norious bedwetters.
It only works if you have people like Tegnell, Gupta or Heneghan in place.

139793 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nessimmersion, #1135 of 1566 🔗

Yes, that’s true – you need proper professionals in charge.

139575 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Achilles, 3, #1136 of 1566 🔗

I Wonder if it’s because on Arrival of the virus they didn’t listen to our resident Cassandra despite his going On And On And On, but hey – That’s Me.

139601 ▶▶▶ Ajb, replying to Andrew Fish, 6, #1137 of 1566 🔗

Cassandra is probably the wrong comparison – she was cursed with always being right, but never believed, whereas we are cursed with a prophet who is always wrong, but always believed (by decision makers, at least!)

139606 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Ajb, #1138 of 1566 🔗

True, but I couldn’t resist the extra Abba reference.

139987 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ajb, #1139 of 1566 🔗


140060 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ajb, replying to Nick Rose, #1140 of 1566 🔗

Mamma mia ( 😉 ), could be a new nickname for him, though maybe appropriate, not sure it would catch on!

139609 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Achilles, 4, #1141 of 1566 🔗

knowing me knowing you its the best they can do… AHA

139613 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 4, #1142 of 1566 🔗

whilst here in the UK …..

No more carefree laughter
Silence ever after
Walking through an empty house
Tears in my eyes
This is where the story ends
This is goodbye

Memories, good days, bad days
They’ll be with me always
In these old familiar rooms
Children would play
Now there’s only emptiness
Nothing to say

139630 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to mjr, #1143 of 1566 🔗

AHA are Norwegian

139655 ▶▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Bumble, #1144 of 1566 🔗

ABBA were a quarter Norwegian.

139753 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bumble, #1145 of 1566 🔗

touche…… but an Alan Partridge reference for those that dont know

139632 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Achilles, 4, #1146 of 1566 🔗

They were Under Attack but the Winner Takes It All

139654 ▶▶ Will, replying to Achilles, #1147 of 1566 🔗

Ah Ha!!!!

139665 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Achilles, #1148 of 1566 🔗

They decided not to experiment

139693 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Achilles, #1149 of 1566 🔗

And unlike us they get to meet up whenever they want with whomever they want The Way Old Friends Do 😉

139750 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Achilles, 3, #1150 of 1566 🔗

And they’ll end up a lot better off than us in terms of Money Money Money.

139979 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Edward, 1, #1151 of 1566 🔗

And Johnson will meet his Waterloo.

139982 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #1152 of 1566 🔗

Maybe Johnson versus Ras-Putin?

139553 Stephen, replying to Stephen, 56, #1153 of 1566 🔗

Nigel Farage just posted a You Tube saying he does not support another lock down and totally criticizing the children running this government,

They now need to be very afraid.

Whether one likes him or not, he has been the most impactful UK politician of the past couple of decades. His reading of the public mindset has also been very good.

I sense that the mood is turning.

139568 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Stephen, 31, #1154 of 1566 🔗

His reading of the public mindset has also been very good .”

This, I think, is the most encouraging thing about this. On Brexit, what made Farage special was his ability (rare amongst elite politicians and journalists) to read and respond to the spirit of the British people, rather than just accepting elite remainist dogma and groupthink.

His turning will get attention for lockdown scepticism amongst people who listen to him because of his track record, but perhaps more importantly it suggests (more reliably than the questionable polls) that there has been a real sea change in popular opinion.

139570 ▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to Mark, 13, #1155 of 1566 🔗

Exactly. He reads the public mindset well.

139592 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Stephen, -12, #1156 of 1566 🔗

Not that well. He didn’t get elected as MP

139650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Bella, 5, #1157 of 1566 🔗

I think he would settle with Brexit…

139729 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bella, 5, #1158 of 1566 🔗

He might have done with more conventional counting rechniques on the night.

139662 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 19, #1159 of 1566 🔗

Agree Mark. My boys, particularly younger one, have been seeing a mood change since early last week – among their conversations with friends and social media. Farage is perceptive and speaks with conviction. He has something of a unique ability in this day and age to cut across class/socio-economic status.

139797 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1160 of 1566 🔗

How old are your boys?

139864 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 6, #1161 of 1566 🔗

18 and 20. Because they speak a couple of languages, they are in tune with what is going on in Europe too (especially Spain and Italy). The elder one is at Uni and two of his close friends are French and German, so we get quite a wide perspective on young people’s views. They also know a lot about Kekistan!

139895 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1162 of 1566 🔗


139933 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #1163 of 1566 🔗

I sensed the mood change when the mask mandate came in for Scotland. People were wondering, why now? Then comments in the press turned, then articles in the press turned. The mood at protests turned. Police behaviour has turned.

The authorities are beginning to fear us.

139949 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1164 of 1566 🔗


139572 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Stephen, 2, #1165 of 1566 🔗

Yes, however when push came to shove in December, he stood down his candidates at the general election. The Conservatives will not see him as a serious threat – especially as all forthcoming elections have been cancelled, so we may never get to vote again.. Can’t even get rid of Sadiq Khan..

139649 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Carrie, 25, #1166 of 1566 🔗

Farage stood down because he could see the way the tide was turning and he wanted to claim credit for facilitating a Brexit Tory government. He can now see that talk of a second wave is politics, not science and now he is confident there isn’t going to be one, he can nail his colours to the mast. I don’t like the man but he is a very shrewd operator and has not got a lot wrong.

139600 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Stephen, 20, #1167 of 1566 🔗

No Lockdown and a real Brexit shall be the rallying cry for those of us who have fucking had it up to the back fucking teeth with excuses from people who’d rather see other countries run our mighty Island. Boris could have held his nerve like Sweden and forced through our leaving the tin pot dictatorship that is Europe and become the Churchillian figure he dreamed about. Unfortunately he’s just Billy Bunter spoilt fat little rich kid.
Nigel Garage should be the Prime Minister of this country. He stood alone in the face of all the abuse for us and now millions agree with him. Maybe now at the next election the people who vote Tory can just accept their piss poor party is nothing more than establishment lackeys and not vote for them and vote Farage instead.

139620 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Stephen, #1168 of 1566 🔗

I think that the depths of asininity have been reached when notablebuffoons like Farrago and Trump can seem to talk sense.

140225 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, #1169 of 1566 🔗

you just got them wrong, as usual

139624 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Stephen, #1170 of 1566 🔗

Link please? I can’t find it. Thanks

139636 ▶▶ Will, replying to Stephen, 4, #1171 of 1566 🔗

I can’t abide the man but he is fecking shrewd. Could The Johnson be gone by the end of half term?

139653 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Will, 8, #1172 of 1566 🔗

I will be delighted if Johnson goes take Hancock Witty Ferguson Raab Gove Patel & Jenrick with Him

139714 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Adam Hiley, 4, #1173 of 1566 🔗

If they all go I’ll dance in the street naked!

139974 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to nocheesegromit, #1174 of 1566 🔗

Please don’t.

139990 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1175 of 1566 🔗

Me too. Maybe just in the garden tho’.

139794 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Adam Hiley, 2, #1176 of 1566 🔗

And Bernard Jenkin and Tobias Ellwood, both of whom want the army brought in..

139926 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 12, #1177 of 1566 🔗

Yes, Jenkin’s article in the Telegraph was not well received:

Most popular comment
‘I disagree with almost everything. No the UK is not heading for a disastrous second peak comparable with the first. No we do not want more testing. No, we do not want more government tracking and surveillance of us. No we do not want military involvement in public health. No the problem with the foot and mouth response was not inefficient disposal of the carcasses, it was slaughtering so many animals needlessly in the first place (guided again by the omniscient Prof Ferguson)’

Difficult to disagree with any of that comments

140134 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1178 of 1566 🔗

I can see why that was the most popular comment!

140003 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Adam Hiley, #1179 of 1566 🔗

good to see another brexitfacts4eu poster also here, Adam

139668 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Will, 9, #1180 of 1566 🔗

Boris will be gone by the end of the year!

139785 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1181 of 1566 🔗

Fingers crossed Tigress, but I still don’t want to get hopeful and disappoint myself again.

139823 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1182 of 1566 🔗

I hope you’re right, Tigress, but I don’t see it. They can’t oust him during a full lockdown, and Bojo is running fast on the home straight towards that finish line. The fat-headed complacent Tory backbenchers just can’t move quickly enough.

139830 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, 3, #1183 of 1566 🔗

I think they will keep him till after Dec 31st (end of transition period) but in the meantime keep him on a tight leash via other means, eg making support conditional on him allowing votes in Parliament on all measures/restrictions..

139865 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Carrie, 2, #1184 of 1566 🔗

Not necessarily a clever move. My guess would be that Brady will fall into the trap of a gentleman’s agreement to avoid a defeat for the government: a promise to bring new restrictions to Parliament, in exchange for not actually removing Bojo’s freedom of action. The obvious result is that Bojo retains freedom to spaff out SIs, while MPs get to share complicity by voting for everything experts demand to ‘keep us safe.’ In any case this cannot be ended before Spring without admitting that lockdown is a crock.

139893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, #1185 of 1566 🔗

I didn’t say it was a clever move 😉

I just think that is what they will likely do until 31st Dec… After that, all bets are off!

139977 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1186 of 1566 🔗

Peter Hitchens said that earlier in the year.

140001 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1187 of 1566 🔗

He’s not mentally fit and it has nothing to do with having had the virus. It’s clear from his gait that he has a neurological condition. They can call it ‘Long Covid’, if they want an excuse, but something is going on behind the scenes, in my view.

139666 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Stephen, 2, #1188 of 1566 🔗

About time the public are waking up https://www.keepbritainfree.com

139684 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Stephen, 1, #1189 of 1566 🔗

Agree – he has not always been my fave but there is no doubt of his extraordinary abilities. This is excellent and I hope he is right about government MPs being increasingly unhappy.

139837 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Stephen, 1, #1190 of 1566 🔗

Turned. The tide is already flooding.

139576 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 31, #1191 of 1566 🔗

‘We have reached a tipping point’ – M. Hancock.

This guy is delusional and needs to be removed from office along with his compatriots who should all be rounded up and exiled if not executed. This people are destroying the country before our very eyes.

139585 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 23, #1192 of 1566 🔗

“Tipping point”. Phrase of the day! The man is an imbecile. Just listening to him on the ITV News. The scumbag sounds just like an angry headmaster.

139832 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 4, #1193 of 1566 🔗

Oh he’s quite right when he claims we’ve reached a tipping point. Just not the one he thinks we’ve reached…

139584 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 21, #1194 of 1566 🔗

comment image

139608 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #1195 of 1566 🔗

It’s too late already, this country and the global economy is f*cked!

139614 ▶▶▶ Barnabas, replying to JohnB, 14, #1196 of 1566 🔗

If it is too late why are you here? We have to get people behind us to turn this situation around.

139723 ▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to JohnB, #1197 of 1566 🔗

We don’t need you.

140008 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnMac, #1198 of 1566 🔗

Economy has gone but we can still get our freedom back

139822 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, 1, #1199 of 1566 🔗

Hopefully not too late. But we do need to start work now. Not next year.

139682 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 11, #1200 of 1566 🔗

I have not always agreed with him but Nigel is spot on here. I just hope he is right about the increasing dissent among government MPs. Maybe this time my letter to my MP will actually do some good.

139719 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 5, #1201 of 1566 🔗

I can’t believe I now have to support Nigel Farage!

Sorry, I was a Remoaner…

139815 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1202 of 1566 🔗

‘My enemy’s enemy is my friend’

139901 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1203 of 1566 🔗

Hear hear. The other day, I posted here that lockdown had seen me supporting Fox News, Donald Trump and more recently, Sinn Fein. Now I have to add Farage to the list 🙁

140043 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1204 of 1566 🔗

Weird times!

139924 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1205 of 1566 🔗

Your predicament madecme smile!

Support no one, it’s easier. Kind of like expect nothing then everything is a bonus. I picked it up while playing sitar in Kerola…

140033 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to A. Contrarian, #1206 of 1566 🔗

“The unity of freedom has never relied on uniformity of opinion.” John F. Kennedy.

139817 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #1207 of 1566 🔗

About time, after his initial wobble.

139930 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1208 of 1566 🔗

Glad he’s seen the light finally, but he was very poor at the outset, and went along with most of the nonsense. I would prefer people who have been consistent throughout to lead the counter movement. That way, they are not compromised. If his intervention gets more people ‘onside’ then good, but this smacks a bit of opportunism to me.

139588 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 18, #1209 of 1566 🔗

For all the good it will do, I have just written to my MP to oppose the second lockdown.

If they shut down again my wife’s job goes and in a few months our home probably follows. Oh what a lovely war.

139677 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Leemc23, 5, #1210 of 1566 🔗

I have just posted mine as well. Since I enclose my previous correspondence it is quite a thick envelope these days.

139591 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1211 of 1566 🔗

I see that Bojo says that more than 6 people can meet on Christmas day.
Presumably the virus has the 25th of December off but not the 24th or the 26th.

139663 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1212 of 1566 🔗

It’ll be so they can spin it out until Easter. “All those non socially distanced turkey dinners have caused an even deadlier third wave”. “Reckless covidiots didn’t sterilise the crackers before lunch and now we’re all doomed.” You get the idea.

139718 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #1213 of 1566 🔗

Yes if they do “allow” Christmas, we will all be blamed for having Christmas.

139801 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #1214 of 1566 🔗

It is inevitable that Team Bojo will spin it out to Easter if allowed to do so. They need to maintain the narrative of holding the plague at bay. In that context, how could they possibly ease off in the middle of Winter? If they do full on lockdown it will be the full six months.

The damage will be immense.

139826 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, 2, #1215 of 1566 🔗

They intend to spin it out till they can force the vaccine on people…

139716 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1216 of 1566 🔗

How does he know this now, three months in advance? I thought the virus was wild, deadly and unpredictable and they will do whatever it takes, Christmas or not? Why can’t people see through such inconsistencies?

Of course as we all know, now he’s said that, we will be in full lockdown over the Christmas period and not allowed to meet anyone from any other households.

139790 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1217 of 1566 🔗

Exactly…. how can he know where we will be at Christmas, unless this whole thing is a political charade…

139806 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Carrie, #1218 of 1566 🔗

Yes. It’s about cultivating a narrative. Facts be fucked.

139744 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1219 of 1566 🔗

virus goes back to Wuhan for the holiday to see its parents

139788 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1220 of 1566 🔗

Boris has not considered that people who do not live near their families, (may even live in another country) spend longer than just Christmas day itself with their families….

139825 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 5, #1221 of 1566 🔗

You only really needed the first 4 words of that comment.

139966 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1222 of 1566 🔗

My butcher said the farmers rearing turkeys were up in arms at the prospect of Christmas being cancelled. Maybe someone mentioned a pile of dead turkeys on No 10 doorstep wouldn’t be a good look on Christmas Day?

139610 Basics, replying to Basics, #1223 of 1566 🔗

Hancocks Lag. Today hancock on Sky and Marr BBC said the reason for the current locking down measures being increased is due to a lag they HAVE seen and WILL see.

Hancock said-
The number of cases have risen and we HAVE seen the numbers of hospital admissions increase. Only slightly at the moment because of the lag in data. We KNOW this increase in admissions will continue to rise. He cited Spain at this point. We also know we will see and increase in deaths from those hospital admissions.

My question is what average time span does the lag have? Between cases to admission and admissions on to deaths.

Hancock sets out his stall confidently without any target date for when to see the effects of his lag. So when will we see these things?

I am avoiding the seeding of carehomes which may or may not happen. Hancock seems to talk bollocks most days too. However predictions arr part of scientific study so can anyone direct me to information that may put a time span on hancocks lag.

I understand the cv19 death cert deaths are about 10 a day in UK at present and do not represent the picture hancock paints.

139756 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 2, #1224 of 1566 🔗

In March, infection to hospitalisation was ~2 weeks, admission to death 1-2 weeks (on average.

So we’ve evidently seen an increase in admissions (we’ll see if it continues), we should be seen deaths increasing between middle of next week and the middle of the week after.

We’ll see.

139761 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 2, #1225 of 1566 🔗

Thanks matt. You waded through my awful comment and replied helpfully. It’s helpful to put markers down against bullshitters and liars.

139777 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, #1226 of 1566 🔗

You’re welcome. The wading wasn’t as painful as you seem to think!

139782 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 4, #1227 of 1566 🔗

Thing is, if it is elderly people with flu being admitted and then getting infected with Covid while they are there, then there are likely to be deaths – also, anyone in hospital at the moment is likely to be someone who is not in the best of health anyway (whatever age), since no elective surgery is happening.
People are only in hospital now if they absolutely *have* to be.. And we already know that a lot of infections with Covid were nosocomial..

Any uptick in deaths, however small , will be ‘milked’ by the government as the beginning of a second wave and as justification for another lockdown – just like James Delingpole said he had been told about in June..

139917 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #1228 of 1566 🔗

Correct flu is the next big baddy to enter stage left.

Vaccines studies suggest flu vaccinated people shed 6 times more virus than those unvaccinated. Currently nhs has sent letters to all certain groups for a flu shot.

140131 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1229 of 1566 🔗

We need to show people the studies that have shown that the flu vaccine increases the likelihood off getting over coronavirus-type infections, ie dissuade people from having a flu jab.

Are people aware that if children are in school when the flu vaccine is done then it is considered that parents have consented? I am concerned that schools will just keep quiet regarding the planned dates for flu ‘vaccination’ (it’s a ‘mist’ rather than a needle, I understand?), in order to make sure kids are not kept at home that day..

139619 mjr, replying to mjr, 21, #1230 of 1566 🔗

Just watched the 6.00 government propaganda programme .
Apparently there are comparisons between the Battle of Britain pilots and the NHS battling covid.
Yeah,,, getting shot down by a Fokker (I cant spell Messerschmitt) and being killed is the same as twisting an ankle doing a dance on TikTok

139652 ▶▶ RickH, replying to mjr, 6, #1231 of 1566 🔗

Even a febrile, grovelling idiot might work out the difference :

The first is related to preserving freedom and democracy
The second is related to demolishing the same


139768 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mjr, #1232 of 1566 🔗

You reminded me of this:


Dubbing is out a tad, but still makes me laugh now.

139839 ▶▶ Steve, replying to mjr, 1, #1233 of 1566 🔗

Actually you can spell Messerschmitt but not Focke…

139939 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, 2, #1234 of 1566 🔗

Talking of propaganda, Biden gave a speech today claiming that by the time he finished speaking 200 million people would have died of Covid!!!

Even presuming he meant worldwide, rather than in just the USA, according to Worldometers it is currently 964,053 – still rather a long way to go to 200 million!!!


139992 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, #1235 of 1566 🔗

Come on man!

140023 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Carrie, 1, #1236 of 1566 🔗

Good old Biden says a lot of things… Feb this year he said “I’m a candidate for the US Senate”. In August, an interview with Cardi B he talks about his “5 grandkids” – as Roy Walker might have said on a famous TV gameshow years gone by, ‘it’s good but it’s not right!’ – he has 7 grandchildren. 🙂

139621 mjr, replying to mjr, 10, #1237 of 1566 🔗

just watching on local news a church in leamington held first service in 6 months… in a field with all the congregation sitting in socially distanced cars listening via open windows or car radio. Lost for words

139623 ▶▶ RickH, replying to mjr, 10, #1238 of 1566 🔗

Mushrooms – cowering in the dark and fed on shit.

139631 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 4, #1239 of 1566 🔗

That set up for a music event here was cancelled ‘over social distancing fears’. Not sure which is worse.

139742 ▶▶ watashi, replying to mjr, #1240 of 1566 🔗

are close to leam? I’d love to meet some likeminded folk

139647 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #1242 of 1566 🔗

The man needs new clothing.

… a straightjacket

139672 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, 11, #1243 of 1566 🔗

If he carries on like this his neighbours will be reporting him to the nearest lampost with some piano wire.

139739 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 3, #1244 of 1566 🔗

Better yet a shroud.

139675 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1245 of 1566 🔗

Blimey – as if living next door to Hancock wasn’t bad enough…

139680 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1246 of 1566 🔗

He would probably report his mother to the police!

139741 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DomW, 2, #1247 of 1566 🔗

Probably has already.

139757 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1248 of 1566 🔗

His neighbour ought to report him.

I would find that intimidating and threatening to have my twat of a neighbour threatening to reoprt me in nationwide mass media. Sue the bastard for harassment and breaching my peace.

139808 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1249 of 1566 🔗

I see Wancock is on his way to becoming DM readers’ most hated person, surpassing Tony Bliar and Meghan Markle.

139818 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1250 of 1566 🔗

The article with the comments must be on fire as it’s taking an age to load!

139851 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1251 of 1566 🔗

I don’t get it. He has a background in economics, worked for the Bank of England and was Osborne’s (yuck) chief of staff. Part of the Austerity crowds inner circle. Yet somehow finds himself health secretary and crashing the economy with his every ill advised word. Utter prick.

139635 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 8, #1252 of 1566 🔗

If there is another national lockdown, will the 8pm Thursday clap for the NHS start up again?

139641 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gillian, 17, #1253 of 1566 🔗

I really hope not. It was totally toxic.

139679 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Gillian, 11, #1254 of 1566 🔗

I would suggest “Boo for Freedom” as an alternative,,,

139736 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gillian, 3, #1255 of 1566 🔗

If they like. I’ll do the same as I did in the last lockdown. Turn up the volume on my headphones.

139737 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Gillian, 1, #1256 of 1566 🔗

doesnt the clap only affect dicks and c*nts

139749 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Gillian, 4, #1257 of 1566 🔗

Oh I do hope so it was the highlight of my week, I could not wait to grab a wooden spoon and start bashing my favourite kitchen pot, I used to hang out of an upstair widow, just so I could virtu signal to the max.

The NHS deserve our support, the organisation is saving millions of UK citizens from a certain death from this deadly virus. Or not.

I’m with Nick Rose, turn up the volume to drown out the cacophony of *hit.

139935 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Dave #KBF, #1258 of 1566 🔗

Stay at Home let the Tories sell the NHS to Trump save lives crack one off let fatty Boris and Batty Matty kill Grandma

139772 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Gillian, 2, #1259 of 1566 🔗

Never mind that, but please god not more rainbows.

139796 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1260 of 1566 🔗

All those rainbows still hanging up are looking awfy faded.

139908 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 3, #1261 of 1566 🔗

Did you see the picture of the painted pebbles? The one with the sweet love heart and the dainty message – we are being lied to – sitting among other pebbles of rainbowed unicorns it was perfect.

139956 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Gillian, #1262 of 1566 🔗

This really made me laugh 😂

139968 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Gillian, #1263 of 1566 🔗

It’ll be dark at 8pm in the Autumn/Winter, they’ll have to pick a different time.

139639 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #1264 of 1566 🔗

Sounds ominous!!

the Prime Minister (pictured today at Westminster Abbey) announced that he was creating a new legal duty for people to self-isolate if they test positive for the virus or are told to do so by Test and Trace staff.

Source, DM. See Wankock link below.

139643 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #1265 of 1566 🔗

Well, I DEFINITELY won’t be taking any test and will carry on giving false details to avoid being traced.

139644 Adam Hiley, 3, #1266 of 1566 🔗

if People do nothing then You all deserve what You get Johnson & Hancock must go now https://www.newchartistmovement.org.uk

139661 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 9, #1267 of 1566 🔗

Just watched dentist Leitch on Scottish TV. He is chief Scottish gov propagandist here in Jock-land. I get the impression he is back-pedalling and playing down the doomsday scenario which is just not like him. What’s going on? Is Nickla waiting for Boris to declare a two week circuit breaker for England just so she can make a show of NOT doing so for Scotty-land, while extending local “restrictions” to every local authority area except Caithness?

139670 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Gillian, 5, #1268 of 1566 🔗

He’s normally Krankies sockpuppet, who relishes his unwarranted influence and ability to ruin the lives of others.
Unless the pennies are starting to drop and he is creating some plausible deniability about the 2nd molehill.

139717 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1269 of 1566 🔗

He ought to be acting professionally and explaing hacocks error is false positives that would do his mistresses biding. Oh no wait, he’s playing along with the same error too.

139674 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Gillian, 4, #1270 of 1566 🔗

She has had lots of opportunities to do the right thing and distance herself completely from London so maybe she will shock us and announce Carl Heneghan and team are her new advisors and go completely against the lockdown approach.

139678 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to dpj, 7, #1271 of 1566 🔗

I dearly wish you are right but the cynic in me thinks that Sturgeon is too much of a control freak and will impose what ever Boris does but with added misery. Scottish Government staff have been told they won’t be returning to the office until 2021 so it looks like Selfie Elsie is playing the long game.

139685 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #1272 of 1566 🔗

I have it on good authority that senior “management” in the Scottish civil service have been told that there WILL be full Scottish lockdown from October until Christmas, at earliest. My source is impeccable.

139687 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gillian, 3, #1273 of 1566 🔗

Tell us more….

139690 ▶▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Gillian, 1, #1274 of 1566 🔗

That doesn’t actually surprise me. There seems to be a inconsistent plan already in place that completely ignores all available evidence.

139727 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gillian, 2, #1275 of 1566 🔗

Is your source that fellow who plays the bagpipes in George Square with the rather large red nose?

139752 ▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Gillian, 2, #1276 of 1566 🔗

If that is the case then they’d better have plans for another furlough scheme and a better alternative to the home schooling fiasco or there will be riots.

139771 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #1277 of 1566 🔗

Free wind blown renewable eleectricity and finest fresh north sea gas for every home in the land to see out that cold Scottish Winter courtesy of your rulers. Ahh yes. Bonnie, bonnie Scotland.

139776 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gillian, 4, #1278 of 1566 🔗

Please tell Simon Dolan about this, also Toby and James Delingpole – maybe even Julia H-B.. I wonder if, if this was put to a minister in an interview, whether they would deny it?
If they did, and it then happened, then their lie would be on record, so the result may be that they do not dare to actually do it if they are ‘rumbled’ in advance…

139941 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Gillian, 1, #1279 of 1566 🔗

Please My Scottish Friends don’t allow it

139700 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Gillian, 2, #1280 of 1566 🔗

Probably. She will denounce lockdowns as an evil invention from Westminster and decide to follow the Swedish approach.

139702 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1281 of 1566 🔗

If only.

139715 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DJ Dod, #1282 of 1566 🔗

She might even be invited to stand in as PM at Westminster if she does that. Stranger things have happened in politics. Can’t think of any examples right now, but I’m sure stranger things have happened…

139725 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1283 of 1566 🔗

George Galloway pretended to be a cat. Was that politics?

139734 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 2, #1284 of 1566 🔗

I think they drugged him in the Big Brother House. Really.

139706 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 3, #1285 of 1566 🔗

If she closes hositality as was suggested eariler today I fancy her supposed poll majority will collapse.

140002 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 3, #1286 of 1566 🔗

The Natzi game plan was always to do as much damage to the economy as possible, then blame the eeeeeeevil tories for what they made them do!.
Everything they touch is toxic & political, as noted elsewhere they are happy if scotland is turned into a dungheap as long as they are the Cockerell making a noise at the top.

140000 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Gillian, 3, #1287 of 1566 🔗

Scotland is, if you pardon the language, in a world of shit debt wise. There is no way we can afford further lockdowns. Fife Council (my region) have a large proportion of their employees working from home and are planning on selling their office space to cut costs. Many people will likely be required to work from home permanently. They will be offered £5 a week to cover the costs of working from home (the argument is that they will be saving so much money on travel and other associated costs of commuting).

139696 Olaf Felts, replying to Olaf Felts, 10, #1288 of 1566 🔗

All horribly surreal – just had a post deleted by BookFace. Untrue comment about covid apparently and directed to WHO website. Must have been the truth then. Posted so many have no idea which one. May have been the one about sending a covid test back using a mango and that testing positive I suppose. That it has come to this. Despairing.

139711 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Olaf Felts, 4, #1289 of 1566 🔗

Can’t have free speech with this awful bug virus going around, can we?

139843 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Olaf Felts, 4, #1290 of 1566 🔗

Was it not a Papaya that tested positive rather than a Mango? Have they picked you up on the wrong fruit?

139951 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to JohnB, 1, #1291 of 1566 🔗

HA ha ha

139705 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hotrod, 5, #1293 of 1566 🔗

Ms Spidey strikes again. Good to hear these “interventions” before Dolan’s case. All publicity is good.

139721 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #1294 of 1566 🔗

Why would any MP actually not back the Brady amendment, it makes perfect sense regardless of your party.

139873 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1295 of 1566 🔗

They role out the brooch queen at times of mega crisis, is it a sign

139875 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1296 of 1566 🔗

I thought she had retired now?

139751 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to hotrod, -1, #1297 of 1566 🔗

Bit late now you silly old moo

139765 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to hotrod, #1298 of 1566 🔗

The use of the word ‘draconian’ is code for ‘mistake’?

139709 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #1299 of 1566 🔗

Clip of thousands of lockdown sceptics

Daily Mail: Hordes of tourists flock to Blackpool after it was excluded from new lockdown rules.

139731 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #1300 of 1566 🔗

Go on plod, baton charge that lot and see how you get on

Yep, thought not

139735 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1301 of 1566 🔗

All off home after a happy bonus day in the sun on a beach to soon find a fresh new video of Farage calling Hancock a pleb etc.

139778 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1302 of 1566 🔗

Expect more with the lovely weather the next couple of days before autumn sets in. Good for them!

139728 NappyFace, replying to NappyFace, 5, #1303 of 1566 🔗

Would be good if someone suitably qualified looked into this “long Covid” issue. Seems to be becoming more of an excuse for the “zero Covid” strategy.

Things like how incidence of “long haulers” compares to other viral infections, how badly impacted those are who are suffering, etc.

Watch this space, it will be the reason for carrying on with restrictive measures even if deaths and hospitalisations stay low.

139748 ▶▶ dpj, replying to NappyFace, 1, #1304 of 1566 🔗

Definitely. This has barely been mentioned up until now and seems to be number one argument against herd immunity. I know one person in 30s who had symptoms but were only mild for a few days and they made full recovery.
Would be good to know if these young people with ‘long covid’ already had a long term illness, ended up in ICU etc

139759 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to dpj, 5, #1305 of 1566 🔗

In which case we’ve both got long bronchitis – 9 months and counting – along with many people in the High Peak. I think it’s not unusual after a nasty respiratory infection. I don’t think it has anything to do with herd immunity but more to do with side-effects but I’d be happy to be corrected by someone who really knows i.e. not a shill. MW

139766 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1306 of 1566 🔗

What I was meaning was that lots of people are arguing against herd immunity because lots of the young people we will let become infected will suffer the devastating effects of ‘long covid’

139780 ▶▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to dpj, 5, #1307 of 1566 🔗

Yes, this is what I’ve come up against a lot. They seem to forget that this is not unique to Covid at all – you can still be feeling the effects of the flu months later, but funnily enough when I point that out it seems to be ignored…

139883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1308 of 1566 🔗

Yes, even a censored Google search for long-term effects of flu will take you to lots of studies that list the exact same effects. There is nothing “novel” about Covid from this standpoint.

139783 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to dpj, 1, #1309 of 1566 🔗

Apologies but that still doesn’t make sense to me, although I accept some people will argue anything! There is now strong evidence that we already have herd immunity but if you get a mild dose of CV19, it is very unlikely to result in long-term health effects. MW

139805 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #1310 of 1566 🔗

I might be wrong but I’m sure like you that 99% of healthy people under 60 have no symptoms or only mild if they become infected and no lasting effects. There will probably be a very small number who have had much worse symptoms which have lingered but happy to admit I’m wrong if there is verifiable evidence that there are 1000s of previously healthy young people out there who became infected and now have permanent lung damage or whatever ‘long covid’ causes.
I’m sure it’s just the latest chinese whisper that pro-lockdowners keep repeating with nothing to back it up.

139781 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to NappyFace, 2, #1311 of 1566 🔗

Yes I agree, this could well be the next change to the narrative

139803 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to NappyFace, 8, #1312 of 1566 🔗

My better half looked into the long covid BS. She has a first degree in medical bio chemistry so has some idea of what she’s talking about. In short, it appears to her that long covid is not that different from post viral fatigue that anyone can get when recovering from a nasty virus.

This would seem to be an appropriate tune.

Public Enemy – Don’t Believe The Hype


139846 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to NappyFace, 5, #1313 of 1566 🔗

As Professor Gupta said on Question Time, if ‘long Covid’ exists (she did not express a view either way) this would be in keeping with what happens to a number of people after any virus. She specifically mentioned Flu. Some people just take longer to get over viruses than others. When me and Mr TT had chicken pox in our early 30s, I was barely ill whereas he was unwell throughout and for a while afterwards.

139857 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to NappyFace, 1, #1314 of 1566 🔗

I caught Chikungunya, an alphavirus, in Sri Lanka in 2007. There was an epidemic from East africa all across Asia. I was acutely unwell for about a week, rash, slight temp, golf ball sized lymph nodes in my groin and joint pain. Everything except the joint pain went in the week but the joint pain ie arthritis lasted 5 months. No further issues after that. So yes, the after effects of a virus can last some time.

139902 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Bumble, 1, #1315 of 1566 🔗

My husband got glandular fever in his 40th. He had fatigue for months but 6 months later was a

139903 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to JulieR, #1316 of 1566 🔗

Was fine, no lasting problems

140039 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to NappyFace, 1, #1317 of 1566 🔗

A Swedish doctor (Sebastian Rushworth) in a blog post entitled ‘Covid, how bad is it really?” answers a question (in the comments section underneath the post) about long term Covid complications and I’ll paste his answer here to save you going to the post. It’s a good answer, I think.

“The vast majority recover without complications. If you become really sick and you spend weeks in the ICU on a ventilator then there are a whole host of complications you can experience, mostly related to the fact that you are immobilized (muscle loss, pneumonia, and pulmonary embolism for example) and to the fact that air is actively being pushed In to your lungs instead of passively dragged in. These are the same complications everyone who spend a lot of time intubated risks experiencing. Apart from that, there have been reports of vascular complications, like Kawasaki disease in children and stroke in adults, but these are all very uncommon.”

You can read it in full here https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/08/04/how-bad-is-covid-really-a-swedish-doctors-perspective/

139743 tonys, replying to tonys, 3, #1318 of 1566 🔗

I know it might seem a bit irrelevant when we are seemingly about to be placed under house arrest again, but what happened to the one metre social distancing? We were all pointing out how two metres was devastating numerous businesses, it was duly knocked down to a metre and then no one seemed to take any notice.

139770 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to tonys, 4, #1319 of 1566 🔗

I thought when masks came in you did not need to keep quite so far away from other people?

139773 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 2, #1320 of 1566 🔗

Masks were to help shoppers back into shops and lift the economy thusly. It’s why they masked hamsters to make sure people could still shop and mask at the same moment. Is what I heard.

139779 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 13, #1321 of 1566 🔗

The masks were part of the 2m to 1m”+” deal. But everyone seems to behave as if they’re a complete replacement.

Of course, the ideal replacement rule should be “oh, just get on with it and do what you like”

139833 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to tonys, 2, #1322 of 1566 🔗

Boris backed out of the 1m+ rule

139747 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #1323 of 1566 🔗

Quick update from the HIgh Peak: A lovely sunny cycle to New Mills and back. No masks on the street (most shops were shut) and 6 of us maskless in the Co-op ( a record, so not everyone’s buying the fear porn, it seems) plus 2 taking the piss in buffs under their noses.  We have to give T&T details at our favourite cafe now. The poor sod has no choice but to ask us so we ‘obliged’ 😉 BTW, we never carry a phone these days and nobody gets our number.

A depressing conversation with a nice old lady who believes it all and thinks vaccines are wonderful.  She is 90 and watches the box all the time so it was hard to make much headway but at least she agreed there’s only one illness these days. Anyway, her cat is lovely and he made a big fuss of both of us. We also met a very terrified academic acquaintance in the street and he seemed much more relaxed (no mask), has forgiven us for being fairly brisk with him a month or so ago and even cracked a joke!

On the way home we saw another elderly lady gardening in a mask. As we know the family, this is probably by order of her terrified academic relations and it made us sad. How to kill Granny, basically.

Mindful of the warnings of coming shortages, we’ve just ordered a home delivery from Morrisons. We could have got it in about 3 days but it was cheaper to wait until next Monday. Lots of non-perishables, just in case.

We’re off to see our kids and grandkids tomorrow as it looks like it’s our last chance for a while. All aboard the Zombie Express but at least we have each other. I’m due for a viola lesson on Wednesday but I’m not holding my breath. We’ll probably be back on bloody Skype. MW

139799 ▶▶ Edward, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1324 of 1566 🔗

I enjoyed my visit to the New Mills area last week and am thinking of doing another walk from the book I mentioned. Unfortunately the weather looks to be on the turn next week so I may wait for a bit.

139767 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #1325 of 1566 🔗

Awful experience while out with my 6-year-old today, at a section of local river popular with kids and dogs alike.

Mum and dad with 2.4 children, aged around 5 and 8 at a guess. trying to play in the river. Both parents kept up a constant harangue. “Remember not to go too close to other people. Keep at least 1 metre away. No! Come back! Step away from those people. YOU NEED TO MOVE FURTHER AWAY!” Upon leaving, the mum carefully guided the children through the exact centre of the gap between two other people (“Keep to the middle!”), but not before hand sanitiser had been applied all round because who knows what covids might be lurking in the fresh country air or the sparkling water of the stream…

139784 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, 20, #1326 of 1566 🔗

People are now a special kind of crazy. State manufactured mass psychosis on a massive scale. This damage will probably NEVER be undone.

139850 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 5, #1327 of 1566 🔗

If the masses have been easily led into this they can be easily led out of it. There’s a tendency to judge others by our own standards. Just as we cannot understand the evil being done by the cabal because we use our own value systems to make sense of the world, we cannot judge how people can be easily led.

Our flaw is being thoughtful and rational with values we ascribe to others without reason to do so.
It is a thought.

139862 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Basics, 3, #1328 of 1566 🔗

Agree with most of that, only caveat I would add is that this level of mind control in now extremely deeply embedded in a lot of people and will take a lot of de-programming.

If there are any Psychologists or Psychiatrists on here then I’m sure they could explain it better. Along the lines of abuse survivors, hostages freed after years in captivity, extreme trauma recovery therapy type stuff.

140184 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to B Boru, 1, #1329 of 1566 🔗

Ironically, Stockholm Syndrome.

139998 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #1330 of 1566 🔗

Problem is that fear stays long in the mind, which is the major problem with getting people to return to normal as it remains in the subconscious affecting our actions.

139876 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Two-Six, 5, #1331 of 1566 🔗

I find it hard to believe that individuals will act any differently from the politicians, by which I mean they will find it just as difficult to admit they were wrong — or misled in the case of individuals. They will keep doubling down on how dangerous the virus is rather than admit they were taken in and the victims of mass hysteria. So I have to reluctantly agree that it will take a very long time for people to snap out of it, and kids may be scarred well beyond that.

139887 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1332 of 1566 🔗

You do wonder what would happen if the government turned round and said ‘Ok, folks – danger’s over now. Go back to normal’….

Would people cope?

139937 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Carrie, 1, #1333 of 1566 🔗

We would, as for the collaborators and sheep, well; That’s their problem.

140079 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Carrie, 1, #1334 of 1566 🔗

Not the treu believers. They are actually outraged at the government for not closing schools indefinitely and will say the death numbers are being hidden. I am not joking.

139787 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1335 of 1566 🔗

What do these parents think their kids do at school all day?! Isn’t that the whole point of ‘bubbles’, so that they’re allowed to be close?

139986 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to nocheesegromit, #1336 of 1566 🔗

But we weren’t in their school bubble I suppose, so MUST KEEP AWAY!

139800 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1337 of 1566 🔗

It’s funny but I have never seen that sort of behaviour up here on Dartmoor. Even at height of lockdown. We had folk go in largish groups down to quite hidden rivers and all was quite normal. Guess we are more relaxed in Devon on the whole as the virus has never taken off down here.

139991 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to William Hand, 2, #1338 of 1566 🔗

I live in a horrifically woke and virtue signalling town in one of the most horrifically woke and virtue signalling parts of the country. That said, this was extreme even for here.

139804 ▶▶ James007, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1339 of 1566 🔗

We were at a play area where a mother was watching her daughter from the other side of the fence.
Daughter (about 6) was asking mummy why she isn’t standing in the play area. Mummy said that there are currently a total of 6 people inside the fence, if she came in there would be 7, and that would be dangerous.
Some children know that much of this makes little sense, other children are really scared, others (like my son) are incredibly bewildered by it all.

139993 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to James007, 1, #1340 of 1566 🔗

You couldn’t make it up, could you?

140021 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James007, 1, #1341 of 1566 🔗

So if child takes a tumble, does mum stay behind the fence and instruct the child to crawl towards her for assistance and a healing hug?

139789 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 13, #1342 of 1566 🔗

Perhaps we could curate a list of celebrity lockdown sceptics (aside from professors and doctors e.g. Carl). I’ll start:

Denise Welch
Ian Brown
Both (?) Gallagher brothers
Van Morrison
Nigel Farage
Mark Labett from The Chase

139807 ▶▶ dpj, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #1343 of 1566 🔗

Jim Corr
Matt Le Tissier
Peter Ebdon
Also Lee Westwood seems to have started a fight with Piers Morgan last few days as well.

139838 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to dpj, 1, #1344 of 1566 🔗

Good example to back up my Lee Westwood comment above

139813 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 8, #1345 of 1566 🔗

Ooh and Laurence Fox!

139821 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #1346 of 1566 🔗

Yes forgot about him and obviously Katie Hopkins too

139828 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1347 of 1566 🔗

Emma Kenny (psychologist on This Morning – she made a heartfelt video on YouTube the other day)

139836 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1348 of 1566 🔗

Pretty measly list so far.
But you can add Peter Ebdon (snooker).

139853 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #1349 of 1566 🔗

Rachel Elnaugh, former Dragon on Dragon’s Den…..

Her videoblog is well worth a watch…


I think she doesn’t go far enough but she is at least getting what some of it is about. All adds to the picture.

139848 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1350 of 1566 🔗
139870 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to nocheesegromit, 3, #1351 of 1566 🔗

Not great a great list considering we have thousands of celebrities, sports people and media influencers. Just shows what a spineless, unquestioning and image / money obsessed group they are.

139872 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1352 of 1566 🔗

Julia Hartley-Brewer

She even pinned Toby’s tweet of the link to today’s Lockdown sceptics and it has been retweeted 1.2K times – presumably these are mostly people who do not already visit this site?

139880 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Carrie, 1, #1353 of 1566 🔗

Yep. Dislike her way of talking, but she is asking good questions.

139886 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Templeton, 6, #1354 of 1566 🔗

She’s also retweeting loads of good statistics and interviews to counter the rest of the media narrative!

She has 221.3K followers so a big reach..

139889 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Templeton, 5, #1355 of 1566 🔗

She is pushing whether it be politicians, scientists or other state flunkies.

We have to take what we can get in this fight and I would rather have JHB on our side than on the other side.

139944 ▶▶▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1356 of 1566 🔗

Agree on all your points (& Carrie’s). The two interviews with Yeadon have been spot on.
Still dont like her delivery =]

139888 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1357 of 1566 🔗

Will Carling
Kirstie Allsopp

139915 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1358 of 1566 🔗

Yes, Kirstie has put out some good tweets and I would think she has a large following on Twitter.

139792 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #1359 of 1566 🔗

Anna Brees had a citizen journalist at the London Trafalgar even on Saturday. A number of people at the protest put their opinions across.

Brees Media

139829 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1360 of 1566 🔗

Cracking. Well worth a watch. Thanks for sharing it.

139860 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1361 of 1566 🔗

Good to see some genuine reporting rather than just the mainstream anti-vaxxer nonsense. Many people attend these protest for very different reasons. The media uses terms to dehumanise people to silence their voices and allow future discriminated by the establishment.

139897 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Darryl, 4, #1362 of 1566 🔗

Darryl we are winning on that front too. Despite the msm onslaught. There is an growing acknowledment of reasonable questioning about this magicked out of thin air vaccine. Not an anti vaccine stance simply a questioning of safety vs efficacy.

Lots to be hopeful about. Remember, they are using every trick in their book against freedom and liberty. Billions of pounds spent, thousands of people trained to perpetuate their desired narrative. They are panicked.

139913 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 1, #1363 of 1566 🔗

How long will it take to win do you think?

139811 justmeabc, replying to justmeabc, 10, #1364 of 1566 🔗

“That’s clearly going to cause deaths because people will be hospitalised” !!!

I thought people went to hospital to be treated and get better. Is Neil Ferguson suggesting that hospital’s kill people?

139814 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to justmeabc, 4, #1365 of 1566 🔗

Maybe they’re thinking of trialling a vaccine on hospitalised people..?

139840 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to justmeabc, 6, #1366 of 1566 🔗

I think it is a ‘Freudian slip’ from Neil Ferguson – he clearly knows (probably salivates over the prospect) that the model today (which I bet he had a hand in designing) is that that more false positives lead to higher hospital admissions with Covid19 and then higher deaths with Covid19. Who said there were Lies, Dammed Lies, and Statistics?

139868 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to theanalyst, 2, #1367 of 1566 🔗

That does not seem beyond the realms of possibility…

139820 Paul, replying to Paul, 12, #1368 of 1566 🔗

On two shopping trips this weekend I have noticed a definite change in the demeanor of a lot of people since the previous weekend.
Mask compliancy,apart from my wife and me,was total as usual but I didn’t notice many of the head held high,smug virtue signalling mask wearers that are usually everywhere.
A large number of the people I saw looked dejected,defeated perhaps,with heads down and avoiding eye contact,a few elderly looked quite terrified.

My wife did receive a mouthful of abuse from another shopper for being maskless,the 15th or 16th time this has happened now and from another woman as usual,not much solidarity in the sisterhood is there ?.

139834 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, 5, #1369 of 1566 🔗

Maybe it is the thought of a new national lockdown, plus no Christmas..?

139863 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Paul, 2, #1370 of 1566 🔗

Good observations thanks.

139898 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 9, #1371 of 1566 🔗

I notice that as well when I’m out and about – dead behind the eyes, demoralised and retreating behind their phones and headphones presumably to numb the horrors of what is going on. Perhaps its all starting to sink in especially if they’re having to grapple with the possibility of redundancy and bankruptcy at the bare minimum.

Sisterhood and solidarity is all a lie, I should know because I was bullied at the all girls’ school I went to and no-one lifted a finger to help. As Ayaan Hirsi Ali once said, the greatest oppressors of women are other women.

139918 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #1372 of 1566 🔗

Same in my experience – I was bullied throughout secondary school and the girls’ comments/actions hurt me far more than the boys’.

139960 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1373 of 1566 🔗

That’s why I have no patience for bullies – there needs to be zero tolerance and they should be called out for their behaviour. Girls and women are the worst unfortunately one can experience it with female family members too.

139922 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1374 of 1566 🔗

To be honest Bart, most days I’ve been hiding in my room to numb the horrors of what’s going on.

139955 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DRW, 2, #1375 of 1566 🔗

I’m not surprised. This has become a long running Nightmare on Elm Street.

140073 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bart Simpson, #1376 of 1566 🔗

That’s so very true Bart. This is why I am so concerned (indeed we all should be) for women going into maternity wards without their partners. Midwives are very much in that category in many cases. I know from my own experience of having two, and someone I know who is high up on the advisory group who is one of the ‘bossy’ types.

139824 Chris John, replying to Chris John, #1377 of 1566 🔗

Quick quick! Who has a link to the breakdown of fines for the DDA?

139849 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Chris John, #1378 of 1566 🔗

Pleases! I have a ‘mediation’ tomorrow and need specifics

139900 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Chris John, #1379 of 1566 🔗

The disability discrimination act?

139910 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, #1380 of 1566 🔗

If you do mean that, it’s been replaced by the Equality Act. The law or fiction blog has details of the penalties companies might be liable for for breaches on page 2 and 3 of their toolkit

139920 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, #1382 of 1566 🔗

Out of interest, anyone remember when the government stopped talking about ‘face coverings’ and started using the word ‘mask’?

If I’ve understood it right, a scarf or similar no longer passes muster?

139964 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 2, #1383 of 1566 🔗

I’m not aware of that as I still people out and about using scarves and TFL announcements still use the term “face coverings”

139907 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Chris John, 9, #1384 of 1566 🔗

I guess these fines will be enforceable by courts and those poor folks who could never afford £10k will ultimately have a wrecked credit file for life. For what purpose? FPN were designed for small enforcement needs, until this year the maximum fine was £500. Now with no consultation it’s £10,000 ! It’s Astonishing over reach.

Everyone of these OTT idiots needs to calm down and take a step back. Covid is here now. It’s a fact of life and we have no choice but to grow up and get on with it. Whitty / Valance said themselves in March that we needed to aim for herd immunity, what’s changed ? Except we now know it’s not anywhere near as fatal to all groups as they feared. That’s good ? One would have thought that was good anyway…….

139841 calchas, replying to calchas, 15, #1385 of 1566 🔗

Whatever happens from this point on, it is clear that there is no going back.

March 2020 joins August 1914 as a month which marks the end of an era.

It looks to me as if the whole western way of life, as it has developed since 1945, is at the beginning of the process of winding down.

139885 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to calchas, 20, #1386 of 1566 🔗

Tweet from Peter Hitchens:

*Now* is the time for civil, lawful, peaceful discontent. Anyone who considers himself or herself a citizen rather than a subject has a duty to use all legal, peaceful avenues of protest.’

139945 ▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Carrie, 7, #1387 of 1566 🔗

OK, I agree with him and am doing my bit – I paid 40 quid and started putting these ‘distrust the government, avoid mass media, fight the lies’ stickers up in neighborhood on lampposts, trees, and Virgin Media / BT cabinets since last Thursday. Stickers visible to 300+ chilled comprehensive school kids massing in a group at 8.29am whilst waiting to get inside school (rule of 6 happily impossible due to stupid social distancing creating massive crowds outside school gate). None of the stickers have been removed so will move to a new patch tomorrow.

139950 ▶▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 3, #1388 of 1566 🔗
140064 ▶▶▶ PWL, replying to Carrie, #1389 of 1566 🔗

It’s the “legal, peacful avenues of protest” bit that I have a problem with, and I’m not surprised when it comes to Hitchens. “Legal” is what Government permits. The word Hitchens should have used instead, but won’t, is “lawful”.

139931 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to calchas, #1390 of 1566 🔗

And totally unnecessary.

139845 DRW, replying to DRW, 10, #1391 of 1566 🔗

Just got back from the pub, a visit I’d planned as a last look before Lockdown II, one last taste of the brilliant food and atmosphere there before it might be shut down again. Looks like Sky News are at it again with scary recycled footage, Poppycock’s latest threats and uncontextualised graphs. I really wish they had the Australian channel on in there instead.

Also, walking home I saw a van driver around with flashing roof and hazard lights on, punching the air to some techno music! He had what was presumably his two daughters with him, the one in the centre was headbanging whilst the one in the left just looked unimpressed. Gave me a laugh anyway.

140036 ▶▶ PWL, replying to DRW, #1392 of 1566 🔗

So, you’re still paying your TV licence, then?(The TV was on in the pub, right?)

140038 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to PWL, 1, #1393 of 1566 🔗

They have Sky News in the pub for some reason, the only thing I dislike about it.

140040 ▶▶▶▶ PWL, replying to DRW, #1394 of 1566 🔗

Thanks for going easy on me. It took me two reads to understand (not your fault) – I should’ve not commented after the second.

139852 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 24, #1395 of 1566 🔗

If you speak German, you have to listen to this. The best information I have heard in the last 6 months:
interview with the lawyer Reiner Fuellmilch, who is a German lawyer who also practices in California.
He is a member of the Corona Ausschuss in Germany, the independent committee to examine the “evidence” with which the German govt introduced measures and is preparing a class action in american courts against Prof Drosten, the inventor of the PCR test for Covid. Prof Drosten’s test is the test the whole world uses. He has been wrong during swine flu. He is a partner in the company who produced the test.
Reiner Fuellmilch is presenting FACTS. He is very knowledgeable. He does not come across as a conspiracy theorist.
This is over an hour long, I have a day off tomorrow and will try to translate this.
It is too important not to have it in english.

139861 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Silke David, 7, #1396 of 1566 🔗

I would appreciate a translation – if you go to the trouble. You may also email to them perhaps to use as subtitles? Thinking to make your time most worthwhile.

139884 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #1397 of 1566 🔗

Good idea re the subtitles!

139925 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Silke David, 1, #1398 of 1566 🔗

Would be amazing to get a translation. That’s very good of you.

140019 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Silke David, #1399 of 1566 🔗

My understanding was that Drosten had warned against the use of the test for diagnostics – ?

139856 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1400 of 1566 🔗

Just got to this comment:

Can anyone confirm this report and if so, can we arrange a collection for this man’s family please?

This morning, I watched a video on fb that showed about seven policemen apparently surrounding a protestor. He didn’t move at all for several minutes. Eventually someone came and gave him mouth-to-mouth.

There was no footage of what triggered the police to act but I’m guessing it was the same protestor. Lots of people were filming it, so the videos will be out there.

The twitter story says the guy was run over by the police.

I found the clip here on fb United Rebels , if anyone else wants to look for it, you might have to join the group:

Apparently there’s a video showing what happened before this but I haven’t found it yet. Will keep looking.

139879 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1401 of 1566 🔗

Met police have stated the man did not die. See post here earlier or a faster way is to look on Simon Dolan twitter. Metpoliceevents or similar was the name of the met police account announcing.

139896 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1402 of 1566 🔗
139928 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #1403 of 1566 🔗

Thanks Basics. This is from Dolan’s twitter: https://twitter.com/redundantuk/status/1307652555212759041

139890 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #1404 of 1566 🔗

Here’s the bit before. I’m pretty sure that’s the guy who’s shouting for help:

139869 Jakehadlee, replying to Jakehadlee, #1405 of 1566 🔗

Are these the green shoots of recovery? Almost unbelievably there is a sense of something like balance in Nick Triggle’s comments in this BBC story. It’s a start, but hopefully the narrative is starting to change


140119 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Jakehadlee, #1406 of 1566 🔗

I don’t know about balance, but I did think there was a glimmer at least at the end. Also noteworthy that they did at least show the hospitalisations graph. Shame there was no fact check of handjob’s lie about hospitalisations doubling every eight days.

139877 Kate, replying to Kate, 11, #1407 of 1566 🔗

Dont know if this has been posted but an excellent and balanced report by Anna Brees on the Trafalgar square demo yesterday


139985 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Kate, 3, #1408 of 1566 🔗

Also a report from Kate Shemirani one of the speakers – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NIv_C4evrw

139881 B Boru, 1, #1409 of 1566 🔗

To add some more flavour to the whole muzzle requirement and the ‘why?’ which so many keep asking or wondering. Some more information to consider.


The rabbit hole goes way deeper than some of you are yet grasping. But you are at least digging so more power to your elbows

139891 DRW, replying to DRW, 7, #1410 of 1566 🔗

I want to believe that this second lockdown, even if it’s just an England-wide mockdown with curfews, will finally be the turning point. But I don’t want to get too hopeful.

139923 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 19, #1411 of 1566 🔗

Well, Peter Hitchens has just tweeted:

‘*Now* is the time for civil, lawful, peaceful discontent. Anyone who considers himself or herself a citizen rather than a subject has a duty to use all legal, peaceful avenues of protest.’

139947 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Carrie, 7, #1412 of 1566 🔗

The trouble is Tobias Ellwood is agitating to have the Army on the streets this time – he is very influential in the regime. Once you have the Army patrolling the streets (even if they are friendly for the most part) surely it is Martial Law / a Police State even if the establishment media claim otherwise. Can’t believe so few seem concerned at the prospect.

139958 ▶▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Darryl, 2, #1413 of 1566 🔗

The British army is tiny.

139962 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Martin Spencer, 1, #1414 of 1566 🔗

But they’re armed.

139978 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Martin Spencer, 1, #1416 of 1566 🔗

Yes, but it is the psychological impact of seeing troops (possibly armed?) patrolling UK towns and cities. It looks terrible for something with a proven 99.98% survival rate for the majority of the population.

Would they be able to take action against anyone breaking government rules?

140022 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Darryl, 3, #1417 of 1566 🔗

Using the military to ramp up the fear, would not need many in fatigues, openly carrying weapons, combined with MSM pushing the narrative, to get the fear level to 11.

Lets hope it does not come to that.

I have heard an elderly caller tonight in bits frightened. Her husband needs medical care, but both her and her husband are scared to go to hospital, because the hospital will kill them.

What sort of world are we living in.

140032 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PWL, replying to Darryl, 1, #1418 of 1566 🔗

I doubt very much there’s going to be armed troops on the streets. Northern Ireland in the Home Counties? I don’t think so.

140125 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to PWL, #1419 of 1566 🔗

The wealthier leafier parts of the country will be left completely alone. I wouldn’t bet against armed troops in Central London, just as a show of power by the Johnson dictatorship – it looks good for the media to illustrate a national crisis (apparently the worst since WW2! clearly puts the treat of nuclear war in the Cold War in the shade – perhaps it really was all grandstanding?).

139973 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Darryl, 12, #1420 of 1566 🔗

Tobias Ellwood is another one who should be charged with treason when this shit show is over. His agitating for the army to get involved will damage whatever goodwill the public has over the the armed forces. And once that damage is done, the armed forces will never get that trust and goodwill back,

Plus it also damages the standing of the Monarchy as The Queen is Head of the Armed Forces.

That said if you see his Twitter feed, he’s getting a beating much as Johnson and Wancock are.

140044 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Darryl, 4, #1421 of 1566 🔗

The Army have been on the streets already, doing testing centres and helping out in Tescos collecting trolleys here back in April and May. They were being seen to be doing stuff to help out the essential services workers that were “stricken” by “the virus”. Such Bollocks. ALso the British Army have been running psycholigical warfare on us, 24/7 since Febuary at least. The British Army is already involved in the Corona Project.

140104 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1422 of 1566 🔗

My worry is that they will be involved in forcibly vaccinating people…

140127 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 1, #1423 of 1566 🔗

Or forcibly testing people door to door, like in Germany. Very very scary.

140118 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1424 of 1566 🔗

Yes, the British Army should never have been involved in psychological warfare against its own citizens. I am not particularly bothered if military medical personnel administer the vaccine for those desperate to have it, but they should in no way be involved in forcing mandatory vaccine on people.

140070 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Carrie, #1425 of 1566 🔗

“Peaceful” my arse.

139927 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to DRW, 7, #1426 of 1566 🔗

I hope young people will ignore it. My daughter said she would.
I have been ignoring ball the rules for months now.

139984 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to JulieR, 6, #1427 of 1566 🔗

Young person here, will definitely ignore it too.

139989 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1428 of 1566 🔗

Same on both counts. Also the local teenagers never stopped hanging out together the first time.

139997 ▶▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to DRW, 3, #1429 of 1566 🔗

Yes – definitely less common in people my age (early 20s) but teenagers have been congregating and not socially distancing since May around here.

139994 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1430 of 1566 🔗

They might ignore it a bit initially, but they tend to fall in line easily these days. I walked past the London Southbank Skatepark on Friday evening. The police were enforcing the 6 person rule rather overzealously sending everyone home. They even had the dog unit out!

140054 ▶▶▶ PWL, replying to JulieR, 1, #1431 of 1566 🔗

The truth is that, generally, lockdown has never been policed. I don’t thnk that will change. UK Government has relied, and will rely on people volunteering into it.

139921 caravaggio57, 1, #1432 of 1566 🔗

Matt Hancock is in a huge hole of his own making. He needs to stop digging or the populace will start shovelling the spoil he has removed on top of him.
He needs to start telling the whole truth about testing and about data presentation.
1. We are all aware of the implications of the false positive rate on the casedemic. Is he?
2. Is the data we have been allowed on the false positive rate up to date?
3. Is the false positive rate uniform across all the testing labs? Are some worse/much worse than others?
4. What quality control measures are in place in the labs to minimise false positives?
5. All positive tests must be repeated within 48 hours and the test sent to a different lab.
6. The description of admissions to hospital ‘with’ needs to go. To be replaced by admissions because of Covid 19 disease.

If he is unwilling to be honest he must resign forthwith.

139969 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #1434 of 1566 🔗

Really poor from the Met police. Central London would have seen mass riots if they behaved this way at a BLM protest – and the politicians and senior police would be on their knees to beg for forgiveness.

I used to support the police, no sympathy for them next time BLM or the far left riot.

139934 B Boru, 4, #1435 of 1566 🔗

Australia, 20 September 2020.

Victoria Tyrant and Psychopathic Dictator Daniel Andrew’s gets bill passed through Patliament to give powers to ‘Authorised Officers’ , that would not be out of place within the Khmer Rouge!

They have power to detain and hold INDEFINITELY…..let tht sink in for a minute………anyone who questions, resists or doesn’t do as they are told!!!!


Coming soon to the country you live in if we dont rise up and put a stop to this FUCKING MADNESS.

I have friends over there and they tell me it is beyond comprehension and without precedent what is going on. THIS is what will come to these shores if we don’t act.

How many people live in London? How many are going to Trafalgar Sq next week? I hope it is literally MILLIONS that turn up. Be undeniable!!!


139936 Richard, replying to Richard, 11, #1436 of 1566 🔗

Ramping up the fear ? Remember the doctor who whistle blew on here about empty ambulances blue lighting around with no patients ? Was thinking about that a couple of days ago as had realised hadn’t seen or heard any on the roads for a while and have been driving around a fair bit. Then today saw at least three or four – plus police were out and about too. Might just be co-incidence ….

139957 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Richard, 9, #1437 of 1566 🔗

Yes, the ambulances running around empty to scare the public in London was true. The NHS and paramedics should feel ashamed of themselves carrying out these orders. They didn’t save lives, they cost them, and they will probably permanently scar millions psychologically

140124 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Richard, #1438 of 1566 🔗

Yes! There have been sirens everywhere over the last week or so. I’m in Hertfordshire.

139952 swedenborg, 4, #1439 of 1566 🔗


 Gomes in her paper in May June predicted the peak in Madrid Spain Sept 2020.She could not know at that time the enormous testing taking place hence the second peak is higher in case counts but the end result will be after this second peak subsides that Madrid Spain has reached herd immunity. Luckily, this second peak, though with some deaths seems to be much milder than in March due to affecting younger persons which is needed to stop the pandemic.

139961 nfw, replying to nfw, 6, #1440 of 1566 🔗

I haven’t worked out whether B Johnson is just stupid, really stupid or taking his instructions from China and the WHO or the BBC (same thing really). Talk about an idiot. TB killed 1.5 MILLION in 2018 and I’ll bet he did nothing then, along with all the other bedwetting Karens.

140026 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to nfw, 1, #1441 of 1566 🔗

TB is a GOOD disease, COVID IS BAD.

139963 DRW, replying to DRW, 1, #1442 of 1566 🔗

The fearmongering is getting self-parodical now. According to Fox News, you can now spread covid from singing Happy Birthday because p and b sounds!


140057 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to DRW, 1, #1443 of 1566 🔗

Oh, and talking in English is higher risk too. More Ps and Bs or summit

140093 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1444 of 1566 🔗

Yes I heard that. It’s like they’re just joking around now with what rubbish they can get away with. Maybe the next headline in this series will be how speaking Swedish is lower risk.

140123 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1445 of 1566 🔗

That’s got to be a nonsense. Ps and Bs are bilateral plosives, so are pronounced with the lips, so aren’t especially wet. Glottal stops tend to be more productive in that department, so German must be a contender… Oh wait, their infections and deaths don’t look too bad…

139971 JohnB, replying to JohnB, #1446 of 1566 🔗

Anyone seen this #30days30waysuk hashtag that is all over Twitter at the mo encouraging people to be prepared in case of sudden evacuation?

There a YouTube video for it as well:


Very funny timing for it even if it’s just an awareness campaign.

139983 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to JohnB, 1, #1447 of 1566 🔗

That YT channel was last updated 11 months ago, do not put too much thought into it.

140085 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, #1448 of 1566 🔗

At a time when people are already starting to hoard again because if a potential lockdown, why not start a as campaign that will lead to even more hoarding and panic buying.

139975 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #1449 of 1566 🔗



“Second AstraZeneca volunteer reportedly suffers rare neurological condition, but UK company says it’s not related to vaccine
“Two people have fallen ill during the trials of AstraZeneca’s coronavirus vaccine in the UK, the company’s internal papers revealed, and a source said they had both suffered from the same serious neurological disorder.
“The company published details of the trials on Saturday, after facing criticism over the lack of transparency surrounding the testing of the much-anticipated vaccine against the virus, which has so far infected more than 30.8 million people and caused over 958,000 fatalities worldwide.

“The first participant of the British trials – which are being conducted in conjunction with Oxford University – fell ill after receiving one dose of the experimental vaccine in July.

“The female volunteer was later diagnosed with transverse myelitis, a rare inflammatory disease that affects the spinal cord, causing weakness, sensory alterations, and autonomic nervous-system dysfunction. The company’s spokeswoman later told the media the volunteer had undiagnosed multiple sclerosis, and the trials resumed.”

More on the link

139988 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #1450 of 1566 🔗

Re vaccines; I just happened upon this:
It’s a short interview in 4 parts (about 2 mins per part) with a doctor widely recognised as a leading authority in vaccinology. He’s talking about vaccine ingredients…

140144 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Carrie, #1451 of 1566 🔗

suspended account

140006 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Basics, 3, #1452 of 1566 🔗

People are getting very patriotic about vaccines. If anyone questions the safety of one of the UK vaccines people get very defensive. I think we are going to get a rushed vaccine (safe or not) and the current regime know they won’t have to worry about any adverse health fallout as the controlled media can cover it up and social media can just censor any coverage.

140042 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Darryl, 1, #1453 of 1566 🔗

I agree. I think there is equally the PR for the concept of vaccination they have to be careful with.

Usual competitive practicle might be to suggest or imply your competitor is more risky or less effective. But this situation is unique in time. They cannot be seen to be risky to take at all. Pulic will quickly lose confidence that is dwindling already.

As Gilad Atzmon sort of said: 99.9% chance of getting 100% antibody/ t cell joy with SARS CoV 2 or take my chances with a rushed vaccine with unknown efficacy.

140047 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Darryl, 3, #1454 of 1566 🔗

Andrew Castle on LBC said

“I’ll be first in line for a vaccine. Can’t wait. That Russian one though, hmmm, not for me.”

I mean that level of stupid is incredible, even for him.

140100 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1455 of 1566 🔗

Good for him, sadly I expect he will be calling for it to be mandatory for the whole population – like all the other media zealots do. I would honestly now be quite pleased if a few people in the media developed serious life changing conditions due to the vaccine after smearing us who are anti-lockdown (because locking up the healthy for a disease with a low death rate is criminal) as anti-vaxxers. Can also add the Met police to that list after yesterday.

140107 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, #1456 of 1566 🔗

I’m still buzzing a little bit after yesterday.Just a little.

140130 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1457 of 1566 🔗

I am disappointed more Londoner’s didn’t attend as they are clearly about to be lockdown again – this time it will finish off many businesses (if they can’t be bothered to question the government and mayor now there is no hope for them). Maybe Londoners like their new masked dystopia? I also wish a few mainstream sceptics would attend and speak out to give the protests more credibility – it is too easy for the media to attack these events.

140177 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Darryl, #1458 of 1566 🔗

It becomes a vicious circle. Mainstream sceptics perhaps stay away because of the CT smear, so there are more CT-ers there, which keeps the mainstream away…

Round and round it goes. Depends on how people view the police reaction. It might drive more away, it might attract more to it. But I wouldn’t take any children to the next protest, 26th September. That’s because of the police, not the protest itself.

140132 ▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1459 of 1566 🔗

They have Tom Swarbrick on standby. FFS.

140007 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Basics, 6, #1460 of 1566 🔗

I think I’ll give it a miss.

140012 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 2, #1461 of 1566 🔗


And her is Bill saying it will change our DNA forever – no thanks…

140034 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #1462 of 1566 🔗

It all should be just as simple as sharing this video to 7 billion people. The world says in unison you mad evil bastard and we move on as a species.

Thanks Carrie, new to me and an excellent clip to share.

140053 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Carrie, #1463 of 1566 🔗

Uses an enzyme called Luciferese. Could they make it anymore David Icke?

140078 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1464 of 1566 🔗

That’s a pattern thoygh isn’t it. Genuine patent numbers 6666 etc.

Is it part of the cover to make it so stupid sounding that no one pays any attention? Reason I say is because our local rag has just delievered this paragraph – “People were very unimpressed by the woman’s loudspeaker-enhanced rant, and many took to Twitter to condemn the protest.

“One person said: “I expect she hasn’t any family who’s been affected by it so hasn’t any empathy.”

“Another added: “Sounds like an absolute roaster. If I go out with a microphone and start spouting s**** in the street about ‘the fourth industrial revolution’ will I get media traction too?”

It literally is being called the 4th industrial revolution. Literally. It is it’s name they are trying to effect it. It is in documents and written about in journals, spoken about at conferences. Yet local rag invents nameless person (staff?) to say it’s a fantasy.

140301 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, #1465 of 1566 🔗

I think symbolism is fascinating but it’s a rabbit hole I don’t care to go down too much. The reality for now is bad enough.

140020 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 2, #1466 of 1566 🔗

With it been russian?

140059 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to MizakeTheMizan, #1467 of 1566 🔗

Understood you now sorry! You mean the vaccine. Sorry I thought you meant the link.

140052 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #1468 of 1566 🔗

Two female participants, both with transverse myelitis, is much worse for the prospects of this vaccine than was the case for one with MS and one with TM. Only 300 new cases per annum in the UK whereas MS is 7000. If you look at joint probabilities, I think this pushes it into third standard deviation event. I cannot see the FDA allowing the US trial to go ahead, and I don’t think it has anything to do with US Big Pharma lobbying.

140056 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1469 of 1566 🔗

I fancy it’s time to get out of AZ if you’re holding, but don’t quote me!

140069 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, #1470 of 1566 🔗

No, I’ve not got any. I was a shareholder a few years ago, but traded them out – too early!

140080 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1471 of 1566 🔗

Got clear in plenty of time!

140152 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1472 of 1566 🔗

Wouldn’t hold Big Pharma shares on principle, but Ocado is very tempting right now…

140149 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, 1, #1473 of 1566 🔗

Del Bigtree covers the AZN developments in quite some detail in his latest video piece.
Bigtree has been fighting for years now against the hidden toxicities of many vaccines, and he has taken successful legal action recently forcing the developers to use proper inert placebos in their control arms. There could be a lot going on behind the scenes here with the AZN vaccine. The FDA say they are still waiting on AZN forwarding details, blood samples etc of the trial subject who developed TM. Maybe the US want Moderna, even though they shelled out $1.2B on AZD1222!
Who knows?
Worth a view on his site. (He was kicked off YT a couple of months ago..)


139999 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1474 of 1566 🔗

Utter scum are now running, and ruining, this country (The Telegraph, paywall):


Some extracts:

Britain is in “the last chance saloon” to avoid tougher lockdown measures, Government sources have warned.

The Prime Minister is expected to threaten curfews on pubs and bans on households socialising if the public does not follow strict self isolation and social distancing rules.

The message is that ‘This is it.’ We have heavy measures down the road unless we can get things back on track, rather than saying any new restrictions are going ahead. This is the last chance saloon,” said a Government source.

In their televised broadcast [tomorrow at 11:00am], Professor Whitty and Sir Patrick will show how the virus is spreading in a way that could replicate the second wave that has hit Spain and France, and the potential scenarios for the UK.

London mayor Sadiq Khan also warned data suggests London is “just days” rather than weeks behind Covid hotspots in the North West and North East of England and is pressing the Government to sanction further lockdown measures “sooner rather than later.”

And at the end of the report:

Lady Hale, the former President of the Supreme Court, on Sunday accused parliament “surrendered” control of the emergency coronavirus laws to the Government, amid growing unease ahead of a growing Tory backbench rebellion demanding MPs have a say on the next stage of regulations.

Have a look at the comment (not paywalled).

140009 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 8, #1475 of 1566 🔗

We didn’t want a second lockdown! It was your fault! Blatant nasty blaming of the people for a failed policy.

140013 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1476 of 1566 🔗

Can see neither article nor comments due to the paywall…

140017 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1477 of 1566 🔗

Is it ageed then France and Spain are having a second so called wave of death due to covid19?

140041 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 2, #1478 of 1566 🔗

So they are having more positive tests because they are mask fanatics.
Join the dots, the countries that are not in the mask cult are not seeing an increase in positive tests

140045 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1479 of 1566 🔗

Thanks. So the DT above is calling cases the second wave. Good thats all, just trying to keep up with where we are at.

140049 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 2, #1480 of 1566 🔗

One minute the DT is sceptical, the next it’s hysterical again. Still desperate for the juicy govt adrev?

140063 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to DRW, 3, #1481 of 1566 🔗

On the subject of The Telegraph, here’s another piece just published and written by Paul Nuki, the “Global Heath Security” editor. Unfortunately it’s paywalled again. It’s the usual fear-mongering bollocks typical of some, but not all, Telegraph reporters and columnists. I draw your attention to a couple of assertions made by Nuki:

Firstly, I would leave it [tomorrow’s presentation] to Prof Whitty to go solo. Fair or otherwise (and I’ve no idea which) Sir Patrick [Vallance] is damaged goods.
He is not a medical doctor, he allowed himself to be misunderstood on ‘herd immunity’ early on in the crisis and he has the faint whiff of the greasy pole about him. He’s just too smooth.

Actually, Patrick Vallance is a medical doctor. Nuki – you’re just another bullshitter.

There are plenty of sceptical voices, of course; the new Swedophiles who have come to regard Europe’s most socialistic nation as a beacon of the libertarian ideal.

Just do as they do and let the virus rip and all will be hunky-dory, they say.

In this, they make several mistakes. First and contrary to popular belief, Sweden has had a lockdown with secondary schools closed for much of the spring and strict legal orders still in place restricting the liberties of those over 70 and other high-risk groups.

Also, as noted by Imperial College London’s Professor Neil Ferguson, compliance with the social-distancing guidelines in Sweden (which are broadly the same as were here until a few weeks ago) are better complied with by its population which is more trusting of its state and more willing to take direction .

So Sweden got it wrong, then – and Ferguson knows what he’s talking about. Nuki – as I said above, you’re just another bullshitter.

140092 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1482 of 1566 🔗

Total codswallop re Sweden! Over 70s and risk groups were *advised* to self-isolate – absolutely not imposed by law . As regards schools, it was only sixth forms (which here is 16-19 year olds) and universities that were moved to online platforms, but they are now open again.

140113 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1483 of 1566 🔗

He’s a liar but also a psycopath

140126 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to DRW, 2, #1484 of 1566 🔗

No. The children in the newsroom are separate from the opinion columnists like Alison Pearson. It’s bi-polar. The management need to get a grip.

140133 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1485 of 1566 🔗

Oh OK, it’s just disorientating seeing them blow both ways.

140050 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nessimmersion, 5, #1486 of 1566 🔗

Cambodia 0 deaths
Taiwan 7 deaths
Laos don’t know
Africa low numbers like 30 dead per 30 million.

Reason? Health care system are pure health care. Not rammed full of bullshit managers and career piss artists all of which allow the corruption and politicisation of statitics. The layered beauracracy is a sickness itself.

140068 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, #1487 of 1566 🔗

Laos – 22 deaths.

140083 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, #1488 of 1566 🔗

Pop 7+ million.
Makes Scottish hospitals look like a rat infested hell hole..

140097 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, #1489 of 1566 🔗

They’re right about it being the last chance saloon. For them.

140102 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1490 of 1566 🔗

I agree, the second lockdown will be mainly about saving themselves.

140010 Basics, 5, #1491 of 1566 🔗

A twitter thread that lists with links many of the reasons why lockdowns are bad. Written to people who are supportive of lockdowns the first tweet says:

Here’s a thread of all the things you are complicit in.

First off, 2.1 million people missing cancer screenings:

It is a helpful resource to possibly share links from

140015 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1492 of 1566 🔗

Alex Thompson UK Column
David Scott UK Column
Jason Goodman
John Cullen
2 hour conversation comparing Covid19 effects in USA and UK.
As you may expect from Alex and David really interesting points come up along the way.
I found John Cullen a little difficult to listen too but well worth the effort.

140024 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Basics, 7, #1493 of 1566 🔗

UK Column is absolutely excellent – always read through MSM – only to get a gauge of the lies and nonsense and to read the ever more increasingly sceptical reader comments – UK Column rocks!

140030 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kath Andrews, #1494 of 1566 🔗

This is slightly different its ukc in interview sort of. Really interesting for that.

Insight Vox UKC documentaries are yet another format they occaisonally work in. And of course ukcolumn.org for written articles – including the lockdown relevant Magical Money Tree series.

Clay Feet and Clapping for the NHS is a UKC article and pod cast LS may also find really interesting.

140086 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #1495 of 1566 🔗

I’m scared to listen to it again – when I listened in May it sent my anxiety levels through the roof…

140025 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 2, #1496 of 1566 🔗

Good to see that David Scott has created the Northern Exposure channel.

140027 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 6, #1497 of 1566 🔗

A ban on social contact from two households?

That means I can no longer see my children.

Is that really what we will he told my a man who doesn’t have children?

I cannot talk to my neighbours?

I cannot live.

140066 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to hotrod, 8, #1498 of 1566 🔗

Yes exactly that. They are truly evil bastards. But they may say that. What you do is another matter. I fully intend to see my children and invite neighbours round for coffee. Why not? Peaceful non-compliance remember. Just say NO. If they fine, do not pay it, the courts are clogged up anyway.

140135 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to William Hand, 3, #1499 of 1566 🔗

Politically motivated cases can find there way to court in a matter of days. Just look at the guy who urinated next to the memorial in Parliament Square. In prison within a week. Simon Dolans case is constantly delayed because it is against the establishment.

140067 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to hotrod, 6, #1500 of 1566 🔗

Just ignore the rules.

140084 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Castro, #1501 of 1566 🔗

Easy to say; less easy in practice if you have neighbours who will snitch on you… Not everyone can afford the fines..

140077 ▶▶ DRW, replying to hotrod, 1, #1502 of 1566 🔗

Can’t you set up an LTD and claim it’s for exempted business purposes if challenged?

140090 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to hotrod, 5, #1503 of 1566 🔗

It will make zero difference if you follow the rules to the letter. If the result is not what they want they will simply find somebody or something to blame and force more restrictions upon you.

140035 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #1504 of 1566 🔗

Noticed Police Scotland are allegedly looking for feedback.
So everyone with an opinion on yellow jacketed boobies, uniformed goons or over the top political policing please add comments:

140072 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #1505 of 1566 🔗

I would be careful of that one. Then they will know who the dissenters are in advance and put the algorithm’s onto you for monitoring. You may even get a chap at the door. This is ‘The Polis’ ….in Scotland….that we are talking about. They love a good thug in uniform so they do!!