2020-09-22

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/09/22/latest-draft/
Published2020-09-22T01:09:32
Last updated2020-09-22T09:30:00
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:06
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142094 Mibi, replying to Mibi, 55, #1 of 2914 🔗

This is war on the people. I wonder how 2021 will look like.

142095 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mibi, 56, #2 of 2914 🔗

This is WW3. A war waged by the “leadership” upon the all people, and the very essence of humanity itself. At this stage I am unconcerned with 2021. Every day in 2020 brings new horrors, and I can look no further than this. If things continue to develop as they have, I will be more than happy never to see 2021.

142133 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Richard O, 40, #3 of 2914 🔗

No, it will get better. People wake up one at a time, but when they do, there will be a reckoning.

142544 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to RyanM, 16, #4 of 2914 🔗

Albert Einstein
Those who have the privilege to know have the duty to act.

The only way I can see is to work overtime to convert people, engaging them any way we can. Leafletting with simple factual messages, leaflets in supermarket trolleys, stickers on cars and of course, engaging on social media. E.G., perhaps to drive home that the present distortion of screening ‘cases’ does not mean infected or infectious and the vast majority of ‘cases’ are people who are in excellent health and no threat to the community.

Of course, if prominent personalities can be “un-brainwashed” then the message would be magnified.

The creative people on this site will undoubtedly many better ideas.

Churchill
But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties,…

142845 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jill, replying to PastImperfect, 8, #5 of 2914 🔗

This is my theory too. We go into Oxford City Centre and hand out leaflets. Have you got any sample leaflets?

142999 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Jill, 7, #6 of 2914 🔗

I have one on HCQ with links on the back – Two-sided A5

HCQ
HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE
People in the global South all take the anti-malarial drug HCQ. Very few there died of Covid-19 . Our ‘governments’ denied us access to HCQ and many who suffered from Covid-19 died needlessly. One tablet of HCQ per week guards against infection from Sars-Cov-2.

A group of doctors in the United States have successfully treated hundreds of Covid-19 patients with HCQ, but the authorities there are desperately trying to deny them access to the drug. Any mention of HCQ on the internet is quickly taken down. There has also been a major disinformation campaign where fraudulent ‘scientific’ papers attacking HCQ have been published.

HCQ is cheap, safe and effective and means that very expensive vaccines are completely unnecessary.

Alan Jones in Australia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF4xhhCkmPA
https://www.facebook.com/CraigKellyMP/videos/313190119942539/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGBEaYEtiys&feature=youtu.be
Charlie Kirk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2P4-cK_K8&feature=youtu.be
Del Bigtree
https://thehighwire.com/videos/doctors-love-it-fauci-hates-it-why/
Corbett Report
https://www.corbettreport.com/

Stickers

Costly Rushed Vaccines – NO
Cheap Safe Hydroxychloroquine – YES

END CORRONAVIRUS ACT
WRITE MP NOW

VernonColeman.com has some more verbose leaflets.
StandupX has quite a few.

144273 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 4, #7 of 2914 🔗

Get to Trafalgar Square on this Saturday – 26th Sept, 12 Noon. The more there are the better.

143772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jill, #8 of 2914 🔗

Check out Keep Britain Free

143393 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jody, replying to PastImperfect, 7, #9 of 2914 🔗

In my experience, it’s very difficult to convert most people by talking about the civil liberties aspects of all of this, or by trying to explain what “cases” and “infections”, as opposed to “death”, actually means.

But there is one issue with which you can gain traction: THE VACCINE.

I live in France and went to a parent/teacher meeting, last night, at the school (we’re still just about allowed to congregate for such occasions over here!) Everybody was dutifully masked-up and conformist, but at the end of the meeting I raised the issue of mandatory vaccination of all our children, as well as the staff at the school, in 2021.

There is nothing fanciful about this; France already makes it compulsory for all school-children to have a growing range of vaccinations, but my comment really got the attention of everybody present.

144284 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Jody, #10 of 2914 🔗

Good point. WHO has said that sending a child to school means that you are consenting to your child being vaccinated.

Note that HCQ eliminates the need for a vaccine for Covid-19 (at least).

142699 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RyanM, 12, #11 of 2914 🔗

People are waking up far too slowly and the masses will still flock for the intentionally dodgy vaccines that will soon to be coming our way. Once the great bulk of the public have been injected there will be no way back.

142915 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Rowan, 4, #12 of 2914 🔗

Ah – there never was a way back. But there is an uncovering of truth from benath masking self-illusion – no matter how terrible they seem.If everyone is looking to see if everyone else is aligning in or expressing truth that they are otherwise unwilling or unready to own and know and align in for themselves, then even if others came out so to speak, would that really give permission to accept and step into your life? Or only to follow in the outer appearances unchanged?
The voice for fear is different from a clear and present danger. It works via the mind of ‘what if’.
And operates as if it has become ‘As Is!’ – not least by an extreme emotional reaction.

143889 ▶▶▶▶ Field Mouse Uppergrouppen, replying to RyanM, #13 of 2914 🔗

I hope so Ryan

144956 ▶▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to RyanM, #14 of 2914 🔗

Hello,
I agree people are coming round to the fact lockdown failed after all we and Europe are seeing increases in infections which given time will lead to deaths. This wasn’t suppose to happen after lockdown the restrictions would be relaxed and society would return to normal. So now all the sacrifices everyone as made was all for nothing because lockdown was the wrong strategy. To me when I heard Sweden had less cases than neighbours Denmark and Norway I realised then that our strategy had failed. The government may not want to accept this fact and will try to continue as if it’s doing the thing but as people suffer they will be a backlash and Boris will be history.

145008 ▶▶▶▶▶ Craig Watts, replying to Derek Toyne, -1, #15 of 2914 🔗

Lockdown worked in China, no cases. Real strict there, have to have temp. Taken when u go in supermarkets, everyone wears masks. I know temp. Thing isn’t 100% decisive but people follow the rules. Too many people flouting the rules in the UK for it to work.

142137 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Richard O, 34, #16 of 2914 🔗

DON’T SAY THAT. We need human beings to live as human beings in this world and refute the zombie hordes just by living, as opposed to their horrid living death. We need, you, friend, to rejoice with us when better times return.

142633 ▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to annie, 21, #17 of 2914 🔗

We need to stop being afraid, stop listening and being influenced by the MSM, and start living in real hope. There are very evil plots being implemented right now by those who THINK they can control our lives but time is getting short for them, hence the maelstrom of conflicting lies and misinformation that we are being bombarded with. They want to mentally destroy us so we become totally compliant. They will succeed but only if you give them your permission! This a pivotal moment in history and it could go one of two ways. Let’s make it go the right way. Stop interacting with the narrative. Distance yourself and understand what it is to be a sovereign human being. Look after yourselves and those around you and show love. Stay away from the conflicting noise, it’s there to distract you and take you away from yourself. Live in the higher moment and pull others into your light. This how is how we win.

142787 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to HelenaHancart, 3, #18 of 2914 🔗

Yes – AS we love Life – instead of a fake and hollow version masked in ‘virtue’ so as to seem to have it, we recognise that fear of self-conflict covered over and masked in narrative continuity and control IS NOT OUR FRIEND – or protector. It’s thoughts are not witnessing to the Living, but to a split off sense of disconnection that is being replicated in our time for us to recognise for what it is – and therefore no longer use fro what it is not. It is not a true foundation from which to know ourselves, each other and the living world we share in.

In truth we can only Be who and what we are (created to be) but in ‘being-afraid’ we are giving our awareness of being to the mind of fear.

In some sense we have a collective ‘bottoming out’ experience of the pattern of addiction – in which the capacity to abide in the false direction and result is coming to awareness as increasing unbearable. The willingness to look directly AT or upon the foundation of a convictions and beliefs that are running the attempt to live all by ourself is the turning point. But to look at or notice our thought and emotion, is to pause from ‘running it’ by reaction – such that IT seems to run us.
That is how we give power or priority of value away from our true desire to mis-taken fear running as if The Truth.

The mis-taken identity can be seen as ‘normalised’ and socially reinforced at many levels. But the key is simply to align in what identifies us and our relationships truly – now and in every moment of noticing – and indeed grow willingness for noticing, because while we are certain in our self-convicting judgements we are too busy in their dictate to notice anything that is truly Present!

143640 ▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to HelenaHancart, #19 of 2914 🔗

Just ‘got’ your name!

144987 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to LS99, -1, #20 of 2914 🔗

Why has this site been flooded with oestreogen?

If we wanted flowers, we’d have ordered them.

Go and have some babies and make some sandwiches, while men talk business.

145007 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Doodle, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, #21 of 2914 🔗

Al, you’re a very naughty boy.

144335 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to HelenaHancart, #22 of 2914 🔗

Check out UKColumn to get an idea of what is going on while everyone is arguing and pointing out flaws in the ‘government’ babble about C-19.

143005 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to annie, 4, #23 of 2914 🔗

We have to MAKE better times return.

END CORRONAVIRUS ACT
WRITE MP NOW

144885 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, #24 of 2914 🔗

Richard O the question we need to ask is why was the war started?

Virus or something else? If some other reason what?

144894 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #25 of 2914 🔗

The virus has always been a smokescreen for me. Plainly obvious from very early on that the response was wildly disproportionate to the actual threat. There are some great posts from slightly earlier this evening speculating on the fact that the economic system actually collapsed in September 2019. What we are seeing now is a controlled demolition, with no attempt to limit the collateral damage. Step forward all kinds of vested interests to offer their solutions after the global population has been battered into submission. All the authoritarian stuff is slave training for the technocracy being lined up.

144899 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, #26 of 2914 🔗

I believe the banking system melted down again in autumn September / October 2019.

142098 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to Mibi, 58, #27 of 2914 🔗

The A-holes sure are running amok in the West eh folks? Every medical establishment in every Western country (minus the old blue and gold in Scandinavia) is lock step in adherence to the WHO narrative and we’re all gearing up for the SECOND WAVE to justify more lockdowns and more destruction to the Main Street economies.

You’d think one, two maybe three countries by now would be evolving beyond this massive failure of a policy but we still hear of only a few dissenting voices within The Science community peeking out now and again. You’d think truly sovereign nations could figure this crap out by themselves without having to “partner” with the WHO in tackling this tame crisis.

It’s all settled folks. We, the people, deserve everything coming our way. Never in the history of the human race have so many lived so well. Never have so many been willing to give up living in order to stay alive – an inch last Spring, a yard this Fall and a mile by the New Year – anything to ease their fears and give them hope for a return to normal. Those in power must be loving this s**t. No need to even shoot anyone…yet 🙂

142472 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Eddie, 12, #28 of 2914 🔗

To quote one now seems like a guidebook for what is happening :
”A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.”

Yes, and people will stand in line for the vaccine and beg to be enslaved, just so they can be SAFE.

142643 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Thomas_E, 14, #29 of 2914 🔗

The public’s utter stupidity is a never ending wonder and makes the government’s depopulation task so very much easier. Bring on the hardly tested, liability free unlicensed vaccines and the plebs will be fighting to be first. I’m beginning to think that it might not be such a bad thing and Bill Gates was right when he said the planet was vastly overcrowded.

142652 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Rowan, 7, #30 of 2914 🔗

Maybe this is our test. If we can resist the vaccine and survive the shitstorm, we will get to carry the torch into the future. Anyone who takes the vaccine will condemn themselves to a slow and painful death.

143150 ▶▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Rowan, 4, #31 of 2914 🔗

Exactly. I’ve had it with this people. If they want to commit suicide, have at it.

143704 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to paulito, #32 of 2914 🔗

Colluding in their own demise, they certainly deserve something.

142991 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Eddie, 2, #33 of 2914 🔗

The underlying leverage of the fear-mind is through guilt arising from wanting YOUR judgement to have priority over truth. Well did you get what you ‘deserve’ of what you in fact ask for? A world in which;
“Everything is BACKWARDS; everything is upside down! Doctors destroy health, Lawyers destroy justice, Universities destroy knowledge, Governments destroy freedom, Major media destroys information, And religions destroy spirituality”.  ~(Michael Ellner)

If we look through a mind that puts truth behind it, we see nothing as it truly is.

You deserve love’s awareness now. But to put this first, you must put the fear-mind of the ‘deceiver’ behind you, or ‘reverse the reversal’.
Of course the mind that made illusion offers to get you out – that is how the mindtrap ‘works’.

Insofar as you have un resolved debt in Life – you have unfinished business, but a true reckoning releases the insanity that grows from trying to protect illusions form truth (which is simply true and not at war with a ‘something else’ called illusion masking off as IF true).

The mind of judgement – that we assigned to God – is the mindset of ‘lording it over unworthiness’ or perceived and believed guilt in self and other and world.
It may start out as a ‘New World Order’ but true order rises from wholeness.
Insofar as you have a ‘lord’, it gives the choice to run your private sense of lockdown and control – as the ‘self-will’, or willingly align in the Giver of Life in which and in whom you are integrally part of the whole rather than a ‘lead role in a cage’.

Running an insanity will sooner or later question the foundations of our thinking, but on the way it will question everything ELSE, so as to find the answers that support its right to lockdown the mind in a split and ‘distanced’ identity.

142279 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Mibi, 13, #34 of 2914 🔗

The answer is quite simple. Until the current lot go, it’s going to be the same over and over again. Boris Johnson and co. will NEVER change course.

142684 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to stewart, 10, #35 of 2914 🔗

Yes, it is clear that Johnson and his band of brigands have no absolutely interest in the welfare of UK citizens. Our corrupt government is working to an outside UN/globalist agenda, that has depopulation and the great green reset as its centrepieces. The coming Covid-19 vaccines will be the main tools of the planned depopulation, better described as genocide.

142760 ▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Rowan, 7, #36 of 2914 🔗

Let’s face it, the vaccines WILL forced on us oherwise we”ll be not allowed to leave our home. These bastards need to swing…and they will.

142854 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to HelenaHancart, 1, #37 of 2914 🔗

I doubt that we will be locked in our homes at first, but there will be many other suffocating restrictions. It will be easier for some to avoid the vaccine than others, but no matter those that take it will be literally dead people still walking, at least for a short while.

143081 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Rowan, 1, #38 of 2914 🔗

The underlying principle is of mind-capture, such as to accept and align in freedom as something granted you by external authority.
This has some application at the level of the body. And if you limit your self (lockdown) as the body, then it tells you what you are, what to do and how to feel.

Freeing from mind capture, needs first to notice it.
The controling aspect of mind-capture is set to deny you awareness of what runs beneath – because that is the reason for your invoking it.

Ancient hates and fears in archetypal patternings run beneath seemingly familiar experience. Do they come up to be undone or healed?

The ancient way is of limited sacrifice to evade total sacrifice – but there IS no way to partially sacrifice truth of wholeness – and so the corruption works through the part that THINKS it is a whole – autonomous or ‘self-willed’.

Recognising the patterns operates a different mind to falling into ever more complex rabbit holes of diversion – that initially seemed to promise an answer.

Predictive programming can be carried out by the population upon themselves by repeated authoritative suggestions, so as to use the ‘bot-net’ to generate the sacrifice to the programmer’s ‘reality’.
But where you attune to and what you attune through remains your freedom – even if you package your choices in plausible deniability or one part not knowing what your other part does.

143026 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to stewart, 1, #39 of 2914 🔗

When each stage in the trick is effected it is replaced by the next – so as to seem to have changed – or be on a new footing.

In some way the change that is most needed is in hearts and minds – as one – and not merely an external change that permits return to unconsciousness.

So your answer may be simple in that it is your version of ‘making the bad things go away’ so you can get your life back.

BJ and co are doing what they are told. Which could be ‘hold position at all costs until the cavalry comes into force’. They do tell us what they are doing – but always through forms of reversal.
So if you don’t give the knee you are kneeled on and choked – in one way or another. that may not see a choice, but our true choice is always between truth and self-illusion – and not merely ‘which self-illusion?’ with the good cop bad cop incentive to either crack or fold to the nice man who gives you a break from hurting and speaks sympathetically to your wish to be free of pain.

144544 ▶▶▶ kpaulsmith1463, replying to stewart, #41 of 2914 🔗

Of course not; above all, they must save face.
…even one as unappealing as Boris’.

142559 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mibi, 4, #42 of 2914 🔗

Then the government’s main weapon will be the hardly tested liability free unlicensed vaccines. I won’t be volunteering.

142612 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mibi, 10, #43 of 2914 🔗

Haven’t seen the worst of 2020 yet. Just wait until the carnage after the US election and UK martial law. Remember Event 201 is the script for what they are planning.

142646 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Darryl, 3, #44 of 2914 🔗

This is exactly why I am unconcerned about 2021. The shitstorm to be unleashed in Q4 2020 will be absolutely brutal and unrelenting. Expect hell on earth. Many of us will not make it.

144441 ▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Richard O, #45 of 2914 🔗
144578 ▶▶▶▶ kpaulsmith1463, replying to Richard O, #46 of 2914 🔗

Seriously, I’m thinking of ringing in the new year with a fifth of bourbon and a fistful of morphine, at this rate.

144562 ▶▶▶ kpaulsmith1463, replying to Darryl, #47 of 2914 🔗

Have you seen (or read) ‘V for Vendetta’, by any chance? Remember how it ended?
The 5th of November IS just ’round the corner, isn’t it?

144703 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Mibi, #48 of 2914 🔗

Best form of defense is attack. Starts now.

144756 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Mibi, #49 of 2914 🔗

END CORONAVIRUS ACT

WRITE MP NOW

Engage with people by any means possible – person-to-person, email leaflets, car stickers. social media and any other method you can think of. Point out the government lies, false positives, anything that engages a brain cell.

142097 COVIDScotlandHarsh, replying to COVIDScotlandHarsh, 41, #50 of 2914 🔗

At least England has some freedom left compared to the SNP-ridden hellhole that is Scotland. Apparently, it’s possible that Scotland will close all hospitality and entertainment venues, force a travel restriction of 5 miles, close visitor attractions, contact sports and indoor physical activity as a group, severely restrict the use of public transport, close hairdressers and driving lessons, and open places of worship for “private worship and reflection only’.

Something tells me Nicola had a little chat with Kim Jong-Dan over how to deal with a non-existent virus which is barely killing anybody nowadays. What a complete shambles. I wouldn’t be surprised if we were forced to quarantine just for going down to England over the weekend, knowing Nicola.

So to any English person complaining over the new restrictions – your complaints are justified, but you aren’t living in Scotland!

142159 ▶▶ Basics, replying to COVIDScotlandHarsh, 17, #51 of 2914 🔗

The hodpitality shut down *may* just may be the camels back breaking. So much of Scotland will be dealt a fatal blow by that. However there is very little understanding of how fraudulent the statistics are in Scotland imo. However again, the sheer stuborness of Scots character may finally kick in with outrage at the twattery of it all. There is a certain loss of patience occuring with the Scot Gov in general matterd to. They are eroding through implosion.

142262 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Basics, 16, #52 of 2914 🔗

I hope so, but most Scots I know think Stalin is ‘doing a great job’ because they are so immersed in the England-Scotland divide that she merely has to hint that she is doing something different to Johnson and they lap it up. They are spineless.

142613 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to jb12, 2, #53 of 2914 🔗

Even sadder is that a lot of Russians still think the real Stalin did a good job.

144448 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to karenovirus, #54 of 2914 🔗

and some Germans still admire Adolf

142917 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to jb12, 1, #55 of 2914 🔗

Cf. Sturgeon’s 8.05pm announcement tweet; in the replies, there is more discussion of why she should be going on after Johnson and congratulations for how she is ‘keeping Scotland safe’ than any actual discussion of the lies being told or the complete disgrace that is our government.

142280 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to COVIDScotlandHarsh, 9, #56 of 2914 🔗

Every time Mr Bart and I read more about Mad Nicola’s ramblings we thank our lucky stars that we got out of Scotland when the opportunity arose.

That said the Scottish economy is heavily dependent on the public sector, tourism and hospitality. These measures will bring Scotland further down its knees having already sustained massive losses from having little to no business over spring and summer.

142425 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #57 of 2914 🔗

————————————————————————————–
Destroy the Economy > Blame Westminster > Save Independence
————————————————————————————–

142460 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kf99, 3, #58 of 2914 🔗

Yep. That’s the SNP’s plan all aong.

142873 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to kf99, 2, #59 of 2914 🔗

I’m hoping that independence dies from Covid!!

143040 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to COVIDScotlandHarsh, 5, #60 of 2914 🔗

I see Nicola Sturgeon is to address the nation this evening at 8 o’clock. That woman fancies herself as we used to say. She’s been stringing the Scots along with her “new restrictions to be announced in the next few days, “new restrictions to be announced in the next few hours,” “new restrictions to be announced in the next few minutes.” Yet here is a comment on the independence newspaper, the National. “I have conformed 100% and more to the guidance, no visits to pubs or restaurants, no overseas holiday, rarely going in shops, rarely leaving my house. Limited interaction with family, therefore I’m really annoyed if I have to stop seeing my great grandchild and other grandchildren due to the selfishness of others. Young or old! I will comply but with severe despair.”
This person has put her life on hold for six months. If she already has a great grandchild she can’t have that much time left. Yet she blames people going to pubs and parties for the miserable life she is leading. From other comments she has made I know for a fact she won’t hear a word against the First Minister. My mother-in-law doesn’t even support independence yet her attitude is more or less the same. That is what people in Scotland are up against.

144166 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jane in France, #61 of 2914 🔗

People deserve the governments they’ve got. Clearly that stupid old woman is putty in the hands of a narcissist like the rabid Nicola.

144457 ▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Rowan, #62 of 2914 🔗
142099 Doodle, replying to Doodle, 26, #63 of 2914 🔗

(Re-posted from yesterday’s forum ‘cos I didn’t realise the new one was up).

I was last on this site a couple of months ago when I was suffering from an implosion of the mind due to a myriad of problems (all Lockdown/mask related) for which there appeared to be no solution.

However, there are always solutions. Some may not be nice, some may be difficult and some may be right under one’s nose (and no, I’m not talking about a mask).

I’m glad to say that I’m now able to see a mask wearer and not go medieval on their sorry hide. I’ve been out and about without getting arrested which is a good thing. I am able to deal graciously (relatively) with simpering, lockdownistas of my acquaintance without resorting to a snarling Tasmanian Devil.

Agreements have been made that lessens the likelihood of me turning green and ripping my clothes to pieces before going, yep you guessed it, all medieval on their sorry arse.

I am now in a happy place of controlled, simmering agression that can be alleviated with the words, “Down boy. Good dog.” and the like.

Now that I have quelled the demons and quenched the fire. What have I missed?

142100 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Doodle, 7, #64 of 2914 🔗

Several groundhog days when it comes to government idiocy.

142103 ▶▶▶ Doodle, replying to karenovirus, 2, #65 of 2914 🔗

So Govt. = idiocy. Idiocy = Govt. Plus ça change…

142138 ▶▶ annie, replying to Doodle, 14, #66 of 2914 🔗

Your approach is excellent. Nauseating and repulsive as the sight of face-nappies may be, it us bearable if you remember that behind many a nappy is a person who loathes and detests the foul thing a d has no br.ief in its efficacy, but believes that if they take it off they will be arrested and receive a ruinous fine. Tell thrm it’s a lie.

142229 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Doodle, 3, #67 of 2914 🔗

Good on you. It’s brave going maskless. I have a hospital appointment next week, need an x ray, but they want me masked. Any tips?

142235 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Thinkaboutit, 4, #68 of 2914 🔗

Hard though it is, you will probably need to bite the bullet. What is more important-your health or making a stand? As the saying goes “pick your battles”. I know it seems like a sell out but sometimes retreat is the best course of action. Only wish Bojo would swallow his pride and admit he was wrong.

142311 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Thinkaboutit, 7, #69 of 2914 🔗

I made one from an old t shirt. The material is a soft cotton jersey so it’s breathable. It’s also pretty thin so pretty much useless (a bit like all masks) but I doubt anyone will whip the thing off me and declare it unfit for purpose! I deliberately made it from black material so the thinness wasn’t too apparent.

143070 ▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #70 of 2914 🔗

I have a mask sent to me by the town council in May. I have never washed it, wear it as little as possible and keep it in my handbag with other junk. But I worry about my kids, at university, who have to wear masks in class. One even visited a forest the other day, everybody masked. At high school too, from the age of eleven upwards, kids and teachers have to be masked. A group of parents is trying to sue the Ministry of Education.

142347 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Thinkaboutit, 2, #71 of 2914 🔗

Agree that you’ll probably have to wear something, it’s the only place along with the GP surgery that I accept it. However I wear a cotton neckerchief and look like I’m going to rob the place and it’s much better than a mask.

142416 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Thinkaboutit, 5, #72 of 2914 🔗

Yes, I’ve had both a hospital appointment with consultant; and yesterday an appointment at the local doctors surgery.
TELEPHONE BEFOREHAND. Tell them you don’t wear a mask and ask them what arrangements they have got for that; and politely suggest that would it help if you turned up early.
Both receptionists said it wouldn’t be a problem. And it wasn’t.
However, getting past the door-guard can be difficult if they have not also received the message; both times I was questioned. At the hospital, another door person came out, ignored the first, and, no further explanation needed, welcomed me by name and took me to a seat inside. At the doctors, the door-girl had to take my temperature, and she also wanted me to wear a mask. I said I didn’t wear one. She wanted to know if I had a medical reason – I said it drove me crazy. She asked did I have a letter from the doctor – I said No, I didn’t need one; I knew it would drive me crazy. I then intervened and said my name was on the system, and they had put a note that I would not be wearing a mask, and that everything was already in hand. So she had no more argument left, and thus let me in unhindered.
SO CLEAR IT BEFOREHAND so you have no trouble at the door, is my advice.
Otherwise it is not a problem.
Good luck.

143647 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 1, #73 of 2914 🔗

PS – when I tell them it will drive me crazy, I give them my best Jack Nicholson smile. :-))

142618 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Thinkaboutit, #74 of 2914 🔗

Seems to vary from trust to trust but I don’t know how far up the management ladder the decision about being relaxed or not is made.

142645 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Thinkaboutit, 5, #75 of 2914 🔗

Full Hazmat?
Or stark bollock naked except for the mask?
Sorry; it’s hard to take this madness seriously sometimes

142721 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Thinkaboutit, 4, #76 of 2914 🔗

Tell them you’re exempt, and get pushy if you need to. I’ve got an appointment booked next month and told them I was exempt. They tried it on but I was adamant they they coudn’t refuse to see me if I can’t wear a “face covering” and they’ve made an arrangement for me to come to a different entrance and call in to the department so they can come and get me. That was a month ago so I’d beinterested to see if their rules change when I show up but I’m fortunate in that it is a non-urgent appointment.

142745 ▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Thinkaboutit, 3, #77 of 2914 🔗

Say you’re exempt. That’s it.

142792 ▶▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to HelenaHancart, 4, #78 of 2914 🔗

Although I can’t speak personally for what it’s like in hospitals, I have not worn a mask since they were forced upon us in July, and have had no problems, except for the rather Hitler-like library assistant who made it very clear that she did not like my attitude to either masks (not wearing) and hand sanitizer (not using), but nevertheless still let me in. But yesterday I was refused entry to a charity shop which had just re-opened because I refused to use the HS and wasn’t wearing a mask. I said I was exempt and the woman then asked to see my “dog tag”. I have just written them a long email and when I get a reply I will post both on here.

143453 ▶▶▶ Doodle, replying to Thinkaboutit, 5, #79 of 2914 🔗

I’m the last person to offer any advice which, thankfully, others on here have done.

I’ve not worn a mask at all, I don’t own one. I refuse any request to wear one. I don’t use the exemption line even though I’m entitled to do so. My usual reply when asked to wear one is, “I don’t wear a symbol of servility or subservience under any circumstances. Deal with it.”

So far this has got me ‘black listed’ at my GP’s and at one hospital. At least I suspect that is what has happened.

Do I care? Do I hell. I like watching people squirm. If this is the hill I die on then so be it. As Marvin the Paranoid Android said, “Life, loathe it or detest it, you can’t like it.”

You have to follow your conscience and do what is right for you.

143990 ▶▶▶ Phoneutria, replying to Thinkaboutit, 2, #80 of 2914 🔗

Look them in the eye and, if challenged, just say “I’m exempt”. Happened to me on the train with police inspecting ( they advised me to get a lanyard) and in a chemists. You can’t legally (yet) be challenged and no reason need be given. Everyone should do it, though be polite.

142451 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Doodle, 1, #81 of 2914 🔗

Van Morrison’s songs.

142101 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #82 of 2914 🔗

Oh stuff it, thinking about packing in this ‘key worker’ lark, might spend a couple of months sucking on the teat of the State.

142107 ▶▶ Doodle, replying to karenovirus, 8, #83 of 2914 🔗

Yeah, I’d probably hold fire on that. Anyone relying on the Govt. for money is going to have to take the vaccine to continue to do so. No papers, no payment.

142114 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Doodle, 3, #84 of 2914 🔗

Oops 🤔

144705 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Doodle, 2, #85 of 2914 🔗

I fear you’re right. I’m disabled, so that’s me starving to death. Stocked up a year’s food and started a small garden, but I can’t keep up with the garden (as per disabled), so it isn’t doing so well. It’s annoying… I have a green thumb, but it keeps dislocating, lol!

145001 ▶▶▶▶ Doodle, replying to TyLean, #86 of 2914 🔗

You’ve done the right thing stocking up. You can only hope that what you’ve got is enough to see you through. Hope is all any of us really have. The end game has not manifested itself yet.

Whatever way it pans out you only need to let it be known if you’re really struggling.

If you’re starving to death then I suspect we all will be.

In the end, for people like you and me (yes I also rely on the Govt.) I reckon it’ll come to a straight choice; take the vaccine and get the money or don’t and don’t. I’ve already made my peace with the consequences of refusal.

Don’t ever give up. Keep positive, find beauty and calm where you can. All things will pass.

Gawd I sound bloody mawkish. I much preferred being a hell hound. 😀

142102 john, replying to john, 104, #87 of 2914 🔗

I can’t for the life of me figure out Whitty and Vallance. These are intelligent people with an education in data and statistics. They know that you cannot extrapolate from a downward trend to make it an exponential upward trend, and they must know that what they presented today was an utter falsification – hinted at by the bizarre “this prediction is not a prediction” caveat…they are either being told to misrepresent the truth by their masters, or are intentionally misrepresenting the truth of their own accord, presumably for their own benefit. Either way its shameful and an utter disgrace.

142116 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to john, 54, #88 of 2914 🔗

They’re both connected to pharmaceutical companies with a vested interest in vaccines. Ferguson, too.

142121 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Mark H, 28, #89 of 2914 🔗

‘connected to’ do you mean ‘bought by’

142128 ▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Cecil B, 9, #90 of 2914 🔗

I’m being kind.

142141 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Cecil B, 1, #91 of 2914 🔗

One of them was effectively fired by big pharma, so I can’t imagine he has much love for them

142200 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Sophie123, 2, #92 of 2914 🔗

I don’t buy the ‘bought off by evil big pharma’ explanations either.

142357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Jonathan Smith, 4, #93 of 2914 🔗

From 2017

Tom Jefferson: The UK turns to Witty, Vallance, and Van Tam for leadership: revolving doors?

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2017/12/06/tom-jefferson-the-uk-turns-to-witty-vallance-and-van-tam-for-leadership-revolving-doors/

142384 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 4, #94 of 2914 🔗

the paragraph about pandemic planning is interesting in today’s context.

142891 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #95 of 2914 🔗

Andrew not Chris Whitty, but the others are one a pot of gold for this cock up.

144372 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Iansn, 1, #96 of 2914 🔗

Whitty has worked for organisations that have been lavishly funded by Bill Gates.

142396 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Smith, 4, #97 of 2914 🔗

How do you explain 2 intelligent men presenting those ‘facts’.
They are not stupid or this incompetent

142844 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #98 of 2914 🔗

Fear. Of something or somebody.

143173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to JohnB, #99 of 2914 🔗

That is a simple but key point. We don’t always know what people are hiding or why they are hiding it but that they are not in the Right Mind – or connected heart and mind – is absolutely evident to anyone who is alive, present and open to communication and relationship.

Because we don’t know the what or why, we project our own fears and fear-derived motives onto them and react as IF we know.
We may also be ‘played’ by others when we set such beliefs real by reaction.

I cannot deal with Chris Witty and chum’s fear for them, but I can hold for an integrity of being that remains there for them, should they choose to face and release fear’s tyranny instead of seeking -Stockholm-syndrome like’, to adapt within a dis-integrity set in priority or power.

Control runs beneath a world of war, no matter what it ‘masks in’.

The masking of ‘war on life’ as a 4th industrial revolution (bio security state under global mandate) is dependent on what the germ theory epitomises. ALL the attention and funding assigned to the ‘pathogen’ and war on evils assigned thereby. NONE to the ‘Terrain’ or total environment AS IT IS in each specific case.

Narratives operate a mythic structure of self-reinforcement – cast out in meanings woven or subsumed to story.

In a sense we step into our own movie by investing emotional reaction that locksteps with others in protecting the movie against disclosure as a masking over or camera obscura.

And WHO told you you were naked – sayeth the Lord?….

144379 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, 1, #100 of 2914 🔗

Money as well as fear.

144088 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #101 of 2914 🔗

alone together without Boris this time

143109 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Jonathan Smith, 1, #102 of 2914 🔗

It doesn’t matter what the leverage is to see they are acting out their roles as if their life depends on it.
As I just commented above, the orders to hold position can apply to fending off the pack (buying time), while the cavalry is installed.

144318 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mark H, 3, #103 of 2914 🔗

They’re all connected to Bill Gates as is Ferguson.

144997 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Mark H, 2, #104 of 2914 🔗

In 2008, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation awarded the LSHTM £31 million for malaria research in Africa. At the time, Whitty was the principal investigator for the ACT Consortium, which conducted the research programme.

145003 ▶▶▶ Francis, replying to Mark H, #105 of 2914 🔗

I doubt it they’re ‘bought off’ but big pharma would probably be their next career move, which wouldn’t look too promising if they’d contributed to choking off a lucrative vaccine market…

142194 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to john, 35, #106 of 2914 🔗

It wasn’t a prediction. It was a carefully designed psychological anchor – using the fairly standard “Fear and Relief” marketing technique.

Ramp up the fear, trail complete lockdown. Then what you announce seems reasonable even though it is far more than people would have accepted if you’d just announced it on its own.

What I find amusing is that they still believe this trick will work once social media has explained how the trick is done.

142314 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Lucan Grey, 14, #107 of 2914 🔗

And then congratulate us all for our efforts when the 2nd wave doesn’t arrive, even though it was never going to arrive anyway.
It’s very similar to economics. You can never run a parallel universe as a control study so it’s all hocus pocus stuff.

142614 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Bumble, 8, #108 of 2914 🔗

Apart from the fact they will congratulate themselves rather than us, I do wonder if that’s what this latest dose of drivel is about – they need to be able to claim some kind of victory to justify backing down without it looking like they’ve done all this damage for nothing. Hype up the problem, give it a couple of months for the data to manifestly fail to follow predictions and then claim victory in time for Christmas.

142361 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Lucan Grey, 5, #109 of 2914 🔗

Spot on –

Ramp up the fear, trail complete lockdown. Then what you announce seems reasonable even though it is far more than people would have accepted if you’d just announced it on its own.

143132 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #110 of 2914 🔗

“It’s a neat trick, but there’s one thing; the trick has to work.”

Quote from Das Boot.

And no, the trick hasn’t worked on us.

143240 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #111 of 2914 🔗

Good to see the basic leverage being revealed.
Unless people take their attention from the movie (of personal reaction and invested identity), to the programming at mind level, they effectively are choosing the movie as it is programming them to.

Schopenhauer explained 38 tricks by which to ‘win an argument’ without actually debating the issue – ie by ‘dirty tricks’. He hoped by publishing this, the ability of tricksters would be limited and more real communication might result in a more honest outcome.
Marketing soon found that the 38 tricks were very saleable to those who wanted to learn dirty tricks so as to use them.

The ‘self-will’ ONLY sees what can be marketised and weaponised. It runs as a possession and control mandate. Everything you seek to use against it will be absorbed and repurposed to be used against you.

Strategies of surviving trauma, operate as split off personality set in maintaining and protecting the split as its salvation. So it can devote a lifetime to learning about its predicament – as a way to persist in it under the mask of understanding.

143655 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #112 of 2914 🔗

Agreed… classic “good cop, bad cop” tactics. I was actually relieved when I saw the newspaper headlines today, after the dread of an even partial return to the insanity of March.

With more time to reflect, the new announcements are thoroughly spirit-crushing. But at least this gives time for the growing level of public, media and expert dissent against the Government’s policy, to grow. Especially if cases start to level off or decline (it looks like they may be already be doing so).
If the latter happened after a full lockdown, they would simply claim it as a success (and many people would believe them)

142232 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to john, 9, #113 of 2914 🔗

That’s what struck me. That extrapolation graph was an outright lie, saved from such by the word “could”. Which of course MSM report as a certainty.

142390 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Thinkaboutit, 2, #114 of 2914 🔗

wiser to display a range-something that tripped up Michael Levitt when forecasting US death levels.

142243 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to john, 26, #115 of 2914 🔗

Having only just watched the press conference i have to say I’m amazed.The 2 most senior medical and scientific people in the country just sat there and presented a mixture of lies,guesswork and scaremongering.
The most frightening thing would be that they really believed the nonsense they were spouting.
No mention of false positives and I see the pandemic has been downgraded to an epidemic.
The only good thing is the reaction it has provoked.

142393 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #116 of 2914 🔗

not only that, no facility to take questions from the press

144886 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to crimsonpirate, #117 of 2914 🔗

The press would only have lobbed a few softballs.

142348 ▶▶ stewart, replying to john, 8, #118 of 2914 🔗

They’ve nailed their colours to this mast and that’s that. Whitty and Valance are like all the rest of us. Their priorities are as follows:

  1. Their egos, their careers, their livelihoods, their families etc..
  2. Other people

Occasionally you’ll come across someone who puts others ahead of some aspect of themselves, but rarely and only temporarily.

These two clowns need to go. Boris Johnson needs to go. Hancock needs to go. Until they do, this is what we are stuck with.

144423 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to stewart, #119 of 2914 🔗

Other people as 2. point? Should that not be 200th? I am sure other people are far far off their mind.

142355 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to john, 2, #120 of 2914 🔗

They’re all in and fully invested emotionally, intellectually, egotistically and financially (that’s more than enough ‘-allys’!)

142672 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to john, 13, #121 of 2914 🔗

They are being told to misrepresent the truth. At all costs. Whitty is as frightened as hell. But they are not Boris and Hancock stooges. It’s the other way round. Hancock and Johnson are the stooges. Hancock may actually believe in the new technocracy. Boris doesn’t believe in anything.
Whitty and Vallance serve different masters. When one accepts this, it becomes all too clear what is happening. From the beginning (actually before the beginning) it has been about vaccines, immunity passports, payment cards linked to immunity passports, end of cash, and destruction of the economy.
JMO!

143123 ▶▶ Allen, replying to john, 1, #122 of 2914 🔗

Quit trying to “figure them out” they are Gauleiters who are carrying out the plans of fascists.

143124 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to john, 9, #123 of 2914 🔗

On the contrary; it all makes perfect sense if you understand that Project Fear is designed to string out this crap until a notionally-effective “vaccine” is sold to the NHS at a cost of billions of pounds to make the Big Pharma company loadsamoney.

When this is over, they (and all those who backed them) must be sent to The Hague for trial. What they are knowingly doing is literally a crime against humanity. Ideally, conviction for this crime will carry the death penalty.

144316 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to john, 1, #124 of 2914 🔗

They are doing what they are told, as Johnson and Hancock. Now guess who’s doing the telling? Not too difficult.

144972 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to john, 1, #125 of 2914 🔗

Good. Bring this up at their trial. A Stalin-type trial will do. A lot to get through, you know.

142104 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 40, #126 of 2914 🔗

I wasn’t out and about yesterday so did not see how things were at the start of the University year.
Pic supposedly of students at a Hall of Residence Saturday night.
Behaving very admirably I’d say.

142119 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, 18, #127 of 2914 🔗

Well done students. We love you

142140 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 27, #128 of 2914 🔗

Hope it’s genuine. I HATE the stupid, cowardly jerks who are trying to turn our universities into miserable high-security jails. I still remember the mixture of joy and apprehension that I felt on my first day, as I took my first real step towards adulthood and becoming my own person. What sort of wrecks will emerge from universities as they are now?

142142 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 3, #129 of 2914 🔗

According to the graun this sort of behaviour is most popular in Scotland but with reported outbreaks in Manchester and Oxford.

142151 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 2, #130 of 2914 🔗

Cambridge sill follow, I hope, though it will be harder in colleges that have a staircase system.

142155 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to karenovirus, 4, #131 of 2914 🔗

Great to see, I hope it’s real. My 2 kids are going back to University and I am concerned for them. It’s supposed to be a great time of life for the young and you can’t turn the clock back.

142237 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to karenovirus, 8, #132 of 2914 🔗

If they all pass the virus to each other theyll be immune by the end of term. The lecturers will have to remember not to snog the students, or theyll get it too.

142363 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to karenovirus, 1, #133 of 2914 🔗

Heroes, warriors and legends. My freshers 1st term I was out every night! Halcyon days.

142484 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #134 of 2914 🔗

SO was I…well allegedly. I don’t remember most of it..Good times!

142807 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to karenovirus, 4, #135 of 2914 🔗

And yet isn’t it strange how whenever the BBC interviews the student on the street they all seem to be in favour of more and more restrictions? You hardly ever hear or see an interview with one who disagrees with the restrictions.

143274 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #136 of 2914 🔗

If you watch what they show you as anything but a manipulative intent, you are willingly fooled.
If you think that calling them out will change anything, you persist in wanting the BBC-old normal.
I don’t give my attention to what doesn’t extend a willingness for life, but if you watch with the volume OFF, (no subs), you may notice the unreality of a masking presentation.

143763 ▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Binra, #137 of 2914 🔗

Not entirely sure what you mean here, are you saying that by watching with the sound off you get to see what they’re really saying i.e. the hidden message? If so, it’s an interesting thought.

143515 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #138 of 2914 🔗

The text accompanying that picture was largely quotes from a student who felt she had been ‘betrayed’ by the university and ‘put in danger’.
I suppose she might have made up her own mind and left.

144433 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #139 of 2914 🔗

Well, l of course if a BBC reporter came across a critical voice, they would not show it. Did it say something in their statues about unbiased, neutral, balanced reporting?

144172 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, #140 of 2914 🔗

It’s time our megalomanic governments were treated with the utter contempt that they deserve. Good on those students.

142105 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 43, #141 of 2914 🔗

I think it’s unprecedented in history for a nation to commit suicide. To simply stop working until it dies. Historians of the future will find it fascinating.
I’ve been through the whole gamut of bafflement and attributed this to incompetence, arrogance, even conspiracy – although I can’t accept the last of these because a conspiracy on this scale would require powers of competence and flawless organisation that just aren’t plausible. I have settled on an explanation: involuntary mass hypnosis. Governments and medical authorities set out to instil fear and dependence while offering reassurance. In doing so they hypnotised the entire population and, because politicians and medics are also human, themselves. And now there’s no one left to click their fingers and say “wake up”.
The fact that Vallance was capable of presenting that imaginary red graph, and the fact that most of the populace takes it as a statement of fact, prove that the country is not in its right mind.

142106 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 16, #142 of 2914 🔗

It’s because they are basing everything on computer modeling, not just ferguson. They are also modeling human behaviour to try and predict how we will respond if they bring in this measure or that.

You are not Pavlov mr johnson and I am not a dog, thank you.

142115 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to karenovirus, 16, #143 of 2914 🔗

That does of course make perfect sense.
Airbrushed out of the story of Pavlov and his dogs is the gruesome finale, in which the pack of dogs realized that Pavlov was blowing a whistle but not providing food, whereupon they turned on him, mauled him to death and gorged themselves on his corpse*. Now, there’s an idea for our new political movement. The banner is a maddened black dog, teeth bared, on a white background. And the party is called Pavlov’s Dogs Bite Back.
(*This isn’t true, of course, but we could make it true by telling everybody on the Internet that it is. And it’s beautiful enough that people would WANT it to be true.)

142247 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #144 of 2914 🔗

Nasty corollary, the dogs got eaten during the siege of Leningrad.

142173 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to karenovirus, 6, #145 of 2914 🔗

I think that the models are psychopathic, choosing implausible and death-loving inputs and refusing to refine the models by comparing them with reality

142507 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 4, #146 of 2914 🔗

Exactly, they are running the country using AI to predict outcomes as huge amounts of data are being automatically analysed across all social media platforms. This involved AI reading what is posted and then analysing it. It works way better than speech recognition which is now very very good. AI reading text and “understanding” it is highly evolved now.

This Corona Project is being managed globally almost literally as a computer game. They write the events into the game and see how “the game” reacts. Game theory comes into play too.

Its a global blueprint that is badly written because its a “nouvelle” plan, one size fits all, it’s never really been tried out before this is why it is so clumsy and damaging and unconvincing.

However this is how the world is to be managed now, they call it, “governance”.

142132 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #147 of 2914 🔗

“I think it’s unprecedented for a nation to commit suicide”.
Ancient Greek Sparta sort of did. They strongly encouraged male homosexuality between young warriors and younger trainees before the older man turned straight in his late twenties to marry a woman with whom he did not live until he left the army.

Over the course of 400 years the number of full Spartan warrior (Spartiates) fell from 10,000 to a few hundred but they never seem to have figured out why. 👬

142144 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 7, #148 of 2914 🔗

The courage of Spartan warriors was legendary. I’ve always thought that it was because life in Sparta was. so miserable that death was always preferable.

Reminds me of the famous epitaph of Leonidas and his three hundred. Suitably amended, it would do for Vallance and Whitty:

Go tell the Wancock, ye who view us, that here, obedient to his laws, we LIE.

142860 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #149 of 2914 🔗

Leonidas is (rightly, imho) more remembered for ‘Molon Labe’. 🙂

142190 ▶▶ Julian, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #150 of 2914 🔗

Certainly in peacetime. A few countries have started stupid wars that led to their destruction. Any way you look at it, it is mass hysteria.

142354 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Julian, 6, #151 of 2914 🔗

A few? The entire arc of history can be plotted joining up the points marking stupid wars.

Most wars are instigated by and for the benefit of a few to the detriment of the majority. Including this one against this virus.

142641 ▶▶ Kate, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #152 of 2914 🔗

You should research what happened in 9/11. Then you will see that it can be done.

https://www0.ae911truth.org/

143551 ▶▶ PWL, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #153 of 2914 🔗

If you can’t accept a conspiracy, when documents were drawn up and made into legislation that essentially banned autopsy of “covid-19” patients, i.e. the old and sick, then you are also hypnotised. It’s not a question of there not being anyone to snap fingers to wake all the hypnotised up. They don’t want to be woken.

142108 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #154 of 2914 🔗

Why is the Pie Chart ‘typical causes of death’ in the funnies section ?
It is a stunningly clear illustration of much of what is said here.
Screenshot for use with waveres.

142110 ▶▶ Doodle, replying to karenovirus, 5, #155 of 2914 🔗

You are right, there needs to be a hi-res image made available. The only thing I’d baulk at is attributing any deaths to ‘climate change’. In the UK? WTF?

142145 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Doodle, 3, #156 of 2914 🔗

It’s the sunbathers who died of sunstroke.

142470 ▶▶ James Bertram, replying to karenovirus, 1, #157 of 2914 🔗

It would make a good protest banner for the upcoming Trafalgar Square march on 26th September.

142109 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 21, #158 of 2914 🔗

What have Tony Blair and the dictator have in comnon?

They both started illegal wars

We let Blair off the hook and look where that has led us

We should not repeat that mistake

If and when this is all over everyone involved must be stripped of all their assets, and I literally mean all their assets, including the clothes they stand up In

We then dump them naked on Trafalgar square where their relatives can collect them if they wish

Then we should go back for Blair

Never again should someone think they can get away with something like this

142358 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cecil B, 4, #159 of 2914 🔗

So right. The precedent of the Iraq war in which a leader took a country to war against the openly stated wishes of the population, backed up by phoney reasons, with terrible results and still no consequences of that leader – that is a bad bad precedent that has done huge damage to this country and the west at large.

142367 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Cecil B, 3, #160 of 2914 🔗

And just like Blair, Al Johnson will blubber on for years to come about how he was right, justified etc etc

142791 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cecil B, #161 of 2914 🔗

Listen to the latest Corbett Report on Covid911. The same figures who were involved in National security then moved into Biosecurity

142113 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 27, #162 of 2914 🔗

Someone asked me recently “what happened to terrorist attacks? You don’t hear of them anymore.”

I replied, “who needs terrorists when you have the UK’s governments?”

142117 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Mark H, 14, #163 of 2914 🔗

There was a group of geniuses who stormed a deserted Barcelona Airport at the height of lockdown. Gave rise to my favourite headline of the year. “Islamists Attack Airport. No Casualties.”

142474 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark H, 7, #164 of 2914 🔗

They have disappeared alongside with cancer, heart disease, strokes, depression, anxiety, etc.

Nice to see that they can make all of them go away if they put their minds to it.

142627 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark H, 1, #165 of 2914 🔗

Must have died with the Covid

142118 Cecil B, 2, #166 of 2914 🔗

Third lamppost on the left is reserved for the government ‘source’

142120 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #167 of 2914 🔗

d

142122 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #168 of 2914 🔗

D for d notice?

142124 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 11, #169 of 2914 🔗

Valence said “the disease has not changed its propensity to cause disease and to cause deaths…”

That’s not what medics have told me which is that procedures and interventions to deal with the Covid that did not work during its height around Easter are now successful in treating the vanishingly small numbers that are now falling ill.

142129 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to karenovirus, 6, #170 of 2914 🔗

So he’s basically saying the NHS is useless, if you end up in hospital you’re probably going to die.

142139 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark H, #171 of 2914 🔗

The hospital mortality rate at its height was 6% I seem to remember.

142130 ▶▶ john, replying to karenovirus, 9, #172 of 2914 🔗

Even Whitty admitted that there is an effective and cheap treatment, dexamethasone, which has significantly improved outcomes – completely contradicting the statement by Vallance…it’s not that covid does not have a risk attached, but the risk does not justify the reaction to it..it’s rare, treatable and has a relatively low mortality and morbidity.

142364 ▶▶ stewart, replying to karenovirus, 2, #173 of 2914 🔗

My pencil has not lost its propensity to make grey markings on paper. It does what pencils do. Mind you, the nib isn’t as sharp.

142125 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 14, #174 of 2914 🔗

Europe yesterday

Total 370 deaths reported Covid related deaths (UK total 11)

Europe Population 741 million people

142127 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #175 of 2914 🔗

How many Europeans died from falling out of bed yesterday?

142135 ▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to karenovirus, 3, #176 of 2914 🔗

371 died from falling out of bed

142148 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #177 of 2914 🔗

And the rest from a co-morbidity, but with falling out of bed, which was put down as the cause of death on the certificate.

142550 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 4, #178 of 2914 🔗

How many Swiss people died after eating fondu then drinking cold beer, so blocking up their stomach as the cheese solidifies into a huge lump due to the cold beer?

More than died of covids I shouldn’t wonder…

142131 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 7, #179 of 2914 🔗

I really feel for you guys. You need an uprising. Any chance to vote these idiots out of office?

I feel like the US, minus the ongoing mask lunacy and schools, has largely opened up. I have said that where we go, you will follow, but I’m not so sure, anymore.

With the death of RBG, nobody gives a shit about covid, anymore. Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program, and I’m sure they’ll try to ramp the panic back up, but right now people don’t care.

142134 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 2, #180 of 2914 🔗

We don’t do voting or elections ‘at the moment’.

142136 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to karenovirus, 7, #181 of 2914 🔗

I guess I don’t quite know how the system works. Our election is in November, and anyone pulling the shit you’re getting from Johnson would be skewered.

Maybe I give us too much credit. My governor is a moron and a tyrant, but Seattle keeps begging for more.

142143 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to RyanM, 13, #182 of 2914 🔗

I actually think you guys might save us. If, as is strongly rumoured, the coronapanic disappears in the US after the election, there will be a big example of a society opening without consequence. That makes it much harder for our government to maintain the lie. Obviously, in an ideal world, we wouldn’t have to wait that long for rescue, but think of it like the World Wars – we stick it out until you guys tip the balance at the last minute.

142150 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Andrew Fish, 13, #183 of 2914 🔗

Overpaid, oversexed and over Corona?

142156 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, #184 of 2914 🔗

😅 🤗 😀

142165 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #185 of 2914 🔗

I cannot imagine us keeping this up past the election. But then, I had said that we would never go along with masks, either… yet…

142187 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RyanM, 6, #186 of 2914 🔗

Biden is strongly pro-mask. Bad news for the planet if he wins.

142268 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Julian, 1, #187 of 2914 🔗

What is Kamala’s view 😉

142568 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 5, #188 of 2914 🔗

They make biden wear a mask so they can over-dub what he says, we can’t see his mouth move. They can’t allow him to actually spew out his own jumbled Altzheimers infused word salad now can they.

142621 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Julian, 3, #189 of 2914 🔗

I’m an American/British dual citizen and have always voted for Democrats. Would never in a million years vote for a Republican. But as soon as Biden came out pro-mask, I decided I couldn’t vote this year. I’m not happy about that, but I’ll not contribute to the enactment of a national mask mandate in the US.

143803 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to ConstantBees, #190 of 2914 🔗

Aren’t Democrats pro mandatory vaccination as well? Didn’t they just attempt to get the vaccine laws tightened or something? If correct, it’s a really odd position because they’re so pro the woman’s right to decide in abortion because ‘it’s her body, her right’ so not sure how they square that with it being ‘my body, my choice’ when it comes to vaccines.

I don’t blame you for not voting but I think if I was a US citizen this year I’d vote Republican and just not tell anyone about it! This one health issue for me is the key to all this because when governments can inject you with whatever they hell they want, it’s literally game over for civil liberties.

144144 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #191 of 2914 🔗

Oh, just vote for Trump. You know you kinda want to… 😉

He’s crass, and he’s a jerk, and he’s an idiot … and the only difference between him and every other politician is that he wears it on his sleeve.

At the end of the day, if you value your liberty, you vote Republican.

145967 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to RyanM, #192 of 2914 🔗

For you and LS99, absolutely in no circumstances would I ever vote for Trump. I just backspaced and deleted the long line of obscenities I put instead of his name. I will no more be a slave to an arrogant narcissist than a mask mandate. The election will be decided by other Americans and I really do not know which way it will go.

And LS 99, what is this nonsense about voting Republican and “not telling anyone about it”? I’m in my 60s, child, old enough to not to need someone like you telling me what to do.

144479 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to ConstantBees, #193 of 2914 🔗

Trump or Biden i think i will pass is this the best America has us British have Bozo Johnson or Keir Starmer enough said

145970 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Adam Hiley, #194 of 2914 🔗

Well, obviously I wouldn’t vote Conservative (if that is what Johnson’s party actually is), but since we won’t have an election for years, if ever, I’m not concerned with who leads Labour right now.

142208 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to RyanM, 6, #195 of 2914 🔗

They would be skewered here too. Unfortunately there’s 4 years until the next elections here. Not that it will make much difference as the opposition parties seem to be in full accord with the govt.

They could do a vote of no confidence to force an early election, but I think it’s unlikely af the moment as parliament seems to have willingly surrendered all control to no.10.

142324 ▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Steve, 7, #196 of 2914 🔗

The best hope is that the 1922 committee defenestrate Johnson, he is the antithesis of a honourable man so the offer of the bottle of whiskey and the webley is off the table. The question are: is there anyone on the back benches who could step up? Are there opposition MP’s who could/ would be part of a national recovery coalition?

144489 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Strange Days, 1, #197 of 2914 🔗

the 1922 commitee now have no other option but to remove Johnson take Hancock also

142146 Sophie123, replying to Sophie123, 2, #198 of 2914 🔗

Do you think they are deliberately tanking the economy, so when it tanks again because of the Brexit clusterfuck, they can blame it on the COVID?
Though I am not sure why anyone would think this would be a helpful state of affairs to the Tories.

142147 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sophie123, 7, #199 of 2914 🔗

No I don’t because of similar policies throughout the world no matter what type of regime.

142153 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to karenovirus, 5, #200 of 2914 🔗

Fair point.

WHY ARE THEY ALL MAD THEN???? 😫

142161 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Sophie123, 4, #201 of 2914 🔗

Well I’ve got a theory – you see the north pole is indeed melting (scientists digging holes in the ice cap and saying hmm, it’s thinner than last year; squaddies yomping all over it in the name of charadee; being circled by cruise ships) but the south pole is still good and icy.
So the earth has tilted slightly on its axis.
This has led to the magnetic fields running through and around the globe that human brains are used to, becoming misaligned.
Some brains in trying to cope with the change have become dangerously overheated to the point of meltdown.
Hence the madness. All perfectly straightfoward once you understand the science. Which nobody is telling us. And that’s the conspiracy.

142162 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sophie123, 20, #202 of 2914 🔗

Because none has the courage to implement policies that might lead to their being blamed for Covideaths.
Real leaders sometimes have to make decisions that will lead inevitably and directly to people being killed. Churchill refusing to cave in to Hitler. Thatcher sending the task force to the Falklands. People – their own people – died as a result. Millions more were delivered from murderous and evil regimes.
Boris lacked the courage to face the (hugely exaggerated) risk of ‘causing’ Covideaths. As a result, we now live under a murderous and evil regime, led by him.

142330 ▶▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to annie, 5, #203 of 2914 🔗

I think you’ve got it spot on Annie.

146690 ▶▶▶▶▶ gipsy2222, replying to annie, #204 of 2914 🔗

But don’t they realise that we will blame them for all the damage. In a normal year there are about 6k suicide deaths in the UK. I will hold Boris, Hancock, Whitty and Vallance personally responsible for every excess suicide this year. Maybe Gove too. Same goes for excess cancer and heart disease deaths.

142374 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to karenovirus, 2, #205 of 2914 🔗

Actually, in every country imposing stupid measures, if you dig a bit you find an ulterior political motivation.

In Israel it was the ultra-orthodox propping up the government who would not allow a local lockdown of ultra-orthodox areas where infections were rising. The result was an unnecessary nationwide lockdown.

In Spain, the regions are now in charge of managing the pandemic and with each region run by a different political party they end up outdoing each other with measures because no political party wants to be caught out as being “soft” on the virus.

In the US you have all the posturing ahead of the election.

142183 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sophie123, 9, #206 of 2914 🔗

I think that’s far too sophisticated. It’s arse-covering, combined with lust for easy power. And following public opinion – if they get us back to normal, every death will be attributed to evil Tories by Labour and their supporters among the media

142294 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Sophie123, 3, #207 of 2914 🔗

It’s not Brexit that will tank the economy in my view, but the impact of many years of ultra loose monetary policy.

144722 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Sophie123, 1, #208 of 2914 🔗

Great Reset….. currency reset. Trust Stamp already rolling out in Africa. (Vaccine, health passport, money all into one in a chip inserted in you). Trust Stamp is funded by GAVI. Don’t believe me? Google it.

142149 Salopian, replying to Salopian, 4, #209 of 2914 🔗

Bedtime for Bojo

142152 ▶▶ annie, replying to Salopian, 5, #210 of 2914 🔗

Let the grave be his bed, eh?

142154 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #211 of 2914 🔗

So what’s going on? Why have they embarrassed themselves in the way?

Noticed these two sentences above re bill and ben. The sentences appear to be the crux of the matter. I am a human so can answer. Fraud. I am not a scientist ans so without nuanced understanding of the industry meaning I cannot truly answer. Would anyone care to give the scientific view?

142181 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 7, #212 of 2914 🔗

I guess scientists suffer as much as everyone else from difficulty admitting their mistakes, more so when they have very well paid and powerful jobs putting them at the centre of attention.

142254 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Basics, 5, #213 of 2914 🔗

My advice is to look at the numbers for cases for France and Spain, which Whitty and Valence used to justify their claims yesterday. You can find it here:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases?country=FRA~ESP#what-is-the-daily-number-of-confirmed-cases

If you can down load it an look in Excel or Google sheets, great, if not just look at the numbers on the graph. I suggest that you look at the “smoothed cases” column as the data for Spain is very choppy, presumably because of the way it is collected in the regions. You don’t need to be a scientist: just look at the numbers of daily cases for August and September. Try to find any 7 day period in which the number of cases doubled. If you cannot, ask yourself who you are going to believe: Chris Whitty or your own eyes.

142375 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Recusant, 1, #214 of 2914 🔗

No brainer! My eyes! Every time. They get things wrong but better that than confidence tricksters telling me what i see.

Unable to see the link or down load. I believe low RAM is freezing my access. I will look out else where or when i encounter it. Caught a glimpse of spain and france data on Sky.

142432 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Recusant, 11, #215 of 2914 🔗

comment image

142624 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #216 of 2914 🔗

2 + 2 = 5

Great Radiohead song, btw.

142157 RA, replying to RA, 29, #217 of 2914 🔗

“I don’t understand the hysteria in Govt at the moment. They aren’t stupid. They can see the same as me. I really don’t get it.” [Ex-minister quoted in article today.]

I see this same kind of refrain in many articles on Lockdown Skeptics: why doesn’t the government understand? Why do they keep pushing these stupid lockdowns…etc. I submit that it is not a question of them understanding. I think Boris Johnson and his minions understand very well what they are doing and why. It is we who do not understand.

The UK government (and many other governments world-wide) have pursued a persistent policy since the start of this pandemic–terrify the population about this disease, to the point where they will allow restrictions to their rights and liberties without question. The over-reaction to what is a fairly typical virus has been deliberate, and they obviously mean to keep on doing it, regardless of the medical facts. Therefore, we must look for other reasons why they feel compelled to do this.

We can start by noting that there is a tremendous amount of money to be made in vaccines, especially if everyone is required to be vaccinated. We can also note that hydroxychlorquine, an inexpensive drug that has been around for decades, and that has already been proven to be effective in treating Covid19 patients, has been the subject of a campaign of outright suppression involving cooked peer reviewed papers in major medical journals and threats of doctors losing their license to practice if they prescribe it. This is not action by governments to support public health. This is action to keep people sick and scared.

We should believe the logic of the actions of our governments. Too many of them are doing things that are against the health and welfare of their citizens. We need to face this fact and consider what is driving this behavior. It is too persistent, too consistent, to be a mere misunderstanding.

142185 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to RA, 14, #218 of 2914 🔗

All very reasonable points and I agree that is the only conclusion one can make in the circumstances.

But if you there are still people around here who will suggest you are a conspiracy theorist for coming to such a conclusion.

Conspiracy theorist used as a pejorative is a great weapon used by those who wish to be protected from reality.

142394 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 2, #219 of 2914 🔗

It’s also a term used to stop thought in others and curiosity.

Happily it is losing it’s ascribed meaning as people understand conspiracies are part of everyday life – whenever police investigate a group of people they investigate a conspiracy.

142448 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Basics, 5, #220 of 2914 🔗

The language must be getting really mangled now. Breaking the “rule of six” is presumably “conspiracy to associate with family members”; not wearing a mask is “conspiracy to breathe.”

142631 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #221 of 2914 🔗

I went to the dentist for a check and clean today. Dentist only wearing a mask, happily, but I said something about my asthma coming on when I wear a mask. He told me that I should get a visor. Shocking idea to me, obviously. I said, no, I’ve got an exemption card that I used. He continued to push the idea of a visor but I wouldn’t respond.

Happily, no dental issues so I’ll avoid going back for 9 months again, if possible.

Rather dystopic to have the hygienists wearing respirators. Poor thing struggling to be understood through the whole get-up. I did tell her I felt bad for her having to deal with that. Much nicer than dealing with the dentist.

142690 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ scepticalsue, replying to ConstantBees, 3, #222 of 2914 🔗

It’s disgraceful that he continued to push you when you specifically said you have a medical condition that makes you exempt – what happened to disability rights?
I’m not sure if you’re NHS or private, but my dentist has been brilliant.
He said that he thinks this whole government response is ridiculous and is actually insulting, they are well used to having good hygiene practices and dealing with patients that might have infectious illnesses etc…
I was actually really pleasantly surprised by his attitude!

143207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to scepticalsue, #223 of 2914 🔗

I saw my dentist this morning. Exact opposite of yours. Preaching the “keeping people safe” dogma all the way. My heart was racing throughout the exam but I kept my mouth shut (well, open actually). Don’t argue with people with sharp implements in their hands.

If I could change dentists I would, but then I don’t need to go again for another 6-9 months. Who knows what the situation will be like by then. I may have fled the country (doing my US passport application this afternoon).

142234 ▶▶ LS99, replying to RA, 8, #224 of 2914 🔗

I’ve noticed the ‘how can they be this stupid’ refrain too when the facts strongly suggest some sort of coordinated conspiracy – opinions vary on what that might be. I sense it’s becoming much harder though to uphold the monumental incompetence/copycat line.

Yesterday on UK Column news they ended with a conspiracy theorist meme, a lovely old black and white photo of a 1940s Lauren Bacall type sassy woman:

“I didn’t intend to be a conspiracy theorist but when I examined all the evidence, it was either that or go back to living a lie”.

142380 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to LS99, 1, #225 of 2914 🔗

Well said.

142682 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to LS99, 1, #226 of 2914 🔗

Conspiracy factist

142239 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RA, 2, #227 of 2914 🔗

Dido Harding saying we will have to.pay for the privilege of getting tested to go to work or the theatre.
Toby’s roundup

142366 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to karenovirus, 2, #228 of 2914 🔗

One positive if you read the article is there is kickback from Labour’s Shadow Health Secretary calling it “pay to hug”. Could this finally be a sign of actual opposition?

142433 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #229 of 2914 🔗

Not really, because Labour believe in track and trace to hug.

142368 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to karenovirus, 3, #230 of 2914 🔗

Who does she think has been paying?

142369 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to karenovirus, 3, #231 of 2914 🔗

Pouf! These people simply open their mouths and words issue forth. So when do we get tested for the theatre? When we buy tickets, which could be a year in advance, or in the queue outside.

142158 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 54, #232 of 2914 🔗

Watching Shapps sniggering at his own ignorance while being interviewed by JHB yesterday, I realised that the arguments are simply going over people’s heads – even those of government ministers. This is probably the case in most aspects of politics, but I never understood it so clearly before.

What we have is two sets of theatrical performances. Whitty and Vallance talk in terms of data and numbers, and they are opposed by Heneghan and Gupta. Johnson will then make some economy-wrecking gestures today, and may be opposed by a couple of backbenchers. The BBC and Guardian will exult in the authoritarianistic possibilities of lockdown and a Daily Mail columnist will preach the opposite. And so it will go on.

99% of people will never even bother to try to understand the details or the ideas behind them. We are just playing off one performance against another. People in socially-distanced conversations will mouth the words “cases” to each other without any clue as to what a case actually is or its significance. For them, the fact that two, sweating boffins with trembling hands spoke solemnly to camera is enough, and that some relatively minor adjustments to their lives will allow them to be part of something – like Lady Diana’s funeral – and gives them a whole bunch of people to feel superior over – the crazy ‘far right’ conspiracy theorists.

They have no conception that these minor adjustments replicated across the entire economy mean they are likely to lose their job, house, freedom and that they are contributing to ruining the lives of their children and grandchildren.

142163 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #233 of 2914 🔗

This is the significance of Denise Welch and others. Happily with younger generations being online it isnt all up to the few celebrities alone to speak to the masses as preinternet.

142179 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #234 of 2914 🔗

Yes, people are unfuriatingly lazy even when their liberty has been removed. Who know that people were so little interested in freedom.

142252 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #235 of 2914 🔗

The care worker who told me of two cancer deaths at her place of work marked down as Covid deaths knows perfectly well that it is a con trick. They did not have Any Covid in that home but there was nothing management could do about it.

142312 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #236 of 2914 🔗

Simply, there are just a lot of dummies around who will never understand any of it and a lot of apparently intelligent people too interested in their own pathetic worldviews to ever look beyond them.

142415 ▶▶ 4096, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #237 of 2914 🔗

That’s a perfect summary of this madness.

142469 ▶▶ percy openshaw, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #238 of 2914 🔗

Quite so. The the demos of today is tired, disunited, demoralised and fearful; with not even the ties of custom and patriotism to bring them together. This is why I feel a faint nausea come over me when pundits and politicos chunter about “The British People” and how they’ll never “wear” this or that. It is dated rubbish; part of the stale cant which passes for speechifying nowadays.

142475 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #239 of 2914 🔗

I’m not so sure – I think the random, inhuman edicts are beginning to put iron into people’s souls. They may not necessarily understand the science, but masks in schools and the rule of six have made them more amenable to argument and more likely to criticise the Government. Now SAGE are suggesting the rule of six will be replaced with an absolute ban on socialising outside your household and I can’t see that being meekly accepted as a minor adjusment.

142694 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #240 of 2914 🔗

The intelligence services realise that you need to maintain 40% truthful reporting among 60% propaganda to maintain the illusion of normal debate.

Allowing opposition voices to speak up and fuel “debate” does not alter the overall trajectory of the policy you will impose.

So the papers are allowed to publish critical articles. But this will be overridden by the fear porn and “reluctantly” the preferred reality will be imposed.

It is just the way of working towards a predetermined end in a “democratic” society.

142160 james cook, replying to james cook, 17, #241 of 2914 🔗

Vallance brushed aside the fact that more testing has resulted in more positive cases as “we see the proportion of people testing positive has increased”. HOLD ON Vallance, this is kinda crucial – you say the proportion has increased – but I look at governments own data ( https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk ) and in May 50,000 tests were giving 5000 positives, and now 200,000 tests are giving 4000 positives – so how has the proportion increased? Quite the opposite.

142176 ▶▶ Julian, replying to james cook, 1, #242 of 2914 🔗

I guess he meant it has increased recently compared to how it was before, which it has. For most of June and July it was around 0.6%, yesterday it was 1.8%, 7 day rolling average maybe a bit lower than that

142164 cloud6, replying to cloud6, 1, #243 of 2914 🔗

I have the answer Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance are on some kind of substance, Cannabis and LSD. That explains everything…..

142225 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to cloud6, 3, #244 of 2914 🔗

From what I’ve read, Whitty was shaking like a shitting dog. So why is everyone swallowing the blatant, blatant lies?

142257 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to cloud6, 1, #245 of 2914 🔗

More likely Diazepam.

142518 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to cloud6, 8, #246 of 2914 🔗

Wrong…as a recreational user of said substances in my youth. I can tell you if this was the case they would be telling everything that this whole thing is a hoax, that they are lying to us, that we should love our fellow man and if anybody has got any crisps or doughnuts .

142166 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #247 of 2914 🔗

Something to look out for today – if you can bear to watch it. Boris Johnson saying he understands the public’s “impatience” and “frustration” and other patronising phrases. As described beautifully here:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/covid-19-and-the-infantilization-of-dissent/

142359 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #248 of 2914 🔗

i can’t bear to watch any of the circus performances – it’s too excrutiating to hear the patronising platitudes – I read the outcome on here for which i thank this site and contributors!

142780 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Sue, 1, #249 of 2914 🔗

Moi aussi. I actually don’t watch UK Column much any more for the same reason. They are doing excellent work, but one can get overwhelmed. But that is conscious on my part. Maybe the unawake populace simply have a much lower threshold and switch off unconsciously to anything that is a challenge to their notion of the world being rational and predictable.

142167 annie, replying to annie, 5, #250 of 2914 🔗

Dear Dido really radiates optimism over testing:

‘The “Holy Grail” is a saliva-based test which can be operated entirely at home or in the office, rather than being processed in a laboratary, and takes just 15 minutes to show a result, Baroness Harding added. The technology to do so does not yet exist on a major scale.’

So save your spit for a better purpose. Or should I say ‘target’?

142178 ▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 10, #251 of 2914 🔗

The holy grail is for every sane person to pack up their things, gather their loved ones and head to Mars on a faster-than-light space ship, so that we can colonise the planet as a place where we can happily ignore all of the nonsense happening back on Earth. The technology to do so does not exist on a major scale.

142186 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 3, #252 of 2914 🔗

Why should the sane have to leave. Let the loonies have a go.

142526 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisW, replying to Julian, 1, #253 of 2914 🔗

Put them on the B Ark.

142816 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to ChrisW, 1, #254 of 2914 🔗

Make sure Boris takes his rubber duck.

142413 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to matt, 1, #255 of 2914 🔗

If we had a faster then light ship maybe we could find a more suitable planet then mars.

142446 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #256 of 2914 🔗

And if we had the technology to produce a reliable 20 minute-turnaround spit test, then everyone could be tested every day.

And if I had a unicorn, I could use it to help me catch elves and pixies.

142476 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to matt, 2, #257 of 2914 🔗

I hope you would equip your unicorn with a vizor and protective bootees. Some of those elves play fast and loose with the Rule of Six.

142516 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to matt, 1, #258 of 2914 🔗

You do realise a unicorn can only be captured by a virgin and as you have children I think that excludes you.

142811 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to matt, #259 of 2914 🔗

Nasty things those unicorns. I was watching an episode of Legends of Tomorrow last week where one got loose at Woodstock – paralysing people with its hallucinogenic rainbow musk, goring people to death and eating their hearts.

142806 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to matt, #260 of 2914 🔗

I think a more achievable aim is to pack all the insane people up on the Mars flight. That way it doesn’t need to be faster-than-light – in fact, it doesn’t even need to get there. Think of it as the Golgafrincham B Ark from Hitch-hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.

142180 ▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, 1, #261 of 2914 🔗

Hi Annie. Apologies, thread hijack here – I may have missed it but I don’t recall Wendy posting on here for a bit. As I recall you used to answer her posts, so I was wondering whether you had seen anything of her.

I hope she and her Dad are OK.

And spitting will get you a stretch inside nowadays!

142168 Recusant, replying to Recusant, 32, #262 of 2914 🔗

The charade by Whitty and Valance yesterday was the most shameful abuse of authority I have ever seen, it was totally disgusting. Anyone with eyes in their head can see that the cases (whatever that means) are not doubling every 7 days in Spain or France, so the psychopathic projections of 50,000 cases could only have been done to mislead and scare people. Shame on them. David Icke has a better grasp of reality than those two evil clowns.

142171 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Recusant, 12, #263 of 2914 🔗

Misconduct in public office

142192 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Julian, 13, #264 of 2914 🔗

The alarm bells ring when no questions allowed

142204 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Recusant, 16, #265 of 2914 🔗

They both seem to be classic cases of ‘The Peter Principal’ in operation, they have both risen to a grade above their competence level. Consequently they lack inspiration, vision, and confidence, they display the classic symptoms of timorous, nervous, defensiveness that is the style of those who are actually working out of their depths.

To my mind our Prime Minister falls into the same category, he is way out of his depth, Mrs Thatcher would have flailed him with her handbag and eaten him for breakfast.
It is hard to always know who is right for a job and you sometimes have to back your instinct rather than just assess current experience. I think Rory Stewart would have done a far better job then Boris but he was not the immediate safe choice.

142479 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Recusant, 2, #266 of 2914 🔗

It genuinely was like watching something out of Communist Russia in the 1970s.

142877 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Achilles, 2, #267 of 2914 🔗

I thought of the very last days of the Soviet Regime as the old guard Communists tried to stop Yeltsin pulling Russia out of the USSR.
They cobbled together some new form of constitution and presented it at a news conference. Several of them were visibly shaking since they knew the game up. Most of them were in gaol a few days later.

142169 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 16, #268 of 2914 🔗

WELCOME TO EAST GERMANY

We have no actual evidence for the actions that we are taking, but we are justifying it by looking at SPAIN. Admittedly, the evidence there is highly dubious and uncertain and if you take it at face value it proves the opposite of what we are claiming (a smaller proportion seem to be dieing with a positive test result than the percentage of the population that have positive tests). BUT WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT AND YOU WILL DO WHAT WE SAY.

No pubs to be open after 10pm

Table service only at pubs and restaurants.

And for our friends in Northern Ireland: no meeting in other people’s houses.

We retain our old favourites:

No meetings of more than 6 people.

Schools to be shut down if there is an ‘outbreak’ of COVID  (after all, 6 people under 20 have died in the whole country, admittedly all seriously immunocompromised)

Generally, we will screw up your lives and wreck your children’s education for a disease which our own statistics office consistently shows is no worse than flu and pneumonia together.

From your loving Government

HAVE A NICE DAY !

142270 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Laurence, 4, #269 of 2914 🔗

I said last week that the rule of six was a declaration of war on the people.Can there be any doubt after that charade that the government are our enemy.

142450 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Laurence, 3, #270 of 2914 🔗

Maybe they’ve discovered that depression kills the virus.

142170 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 10, #271 of 2914 🔗

Someone linked this article late on yesterday’s thread https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/21/fightback-against-spike-in-coronavirus-thrashed-out-at-no-10-summit

We are told Profs Heneghan and Gupta attended Sunday’s COBRA meeting because Boris wanted to hear a range of views. Yesterday’s pantomime from V&W suggests they were not able to make any inroads at all. Inconvenient truths will continue to be ignored at all costs, it seems

142174 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #272 of 2914 🔗

Apologies, SAGE meeting, not COBRA. Suffering acronym overload this morning

142188 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Charlie Blue, 12, #273 of 2914 🔗

That’s interesting, because Gupta and Heneghan have continued firing on all cylinders. It means they didn’t experience any revelations at the meeting – no top secret info where they found out that the virus is much worse in its effects than the public have been led to believe, etc.

142207 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #274 of 2914 🔗

The fact that they put out that open letter yesterday morning suggests their views were not really taken in to account. If government decision was going to go in the direction they were suggesting there would have been no need for it.

142219 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to dpj, 4, #275 of 2914 🔗

Absolutely. I was aware of the letter, but not that they had been invited to SAGE. Apologies if everyone else already knew!

142175 mhcp, 5, #276 of 2914 🔗

The motto:

Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying

has never been more apt

142177 Danny, replying to Danny, 4, #277 of 2914 🔗

If the media leaks today are to be believed then at the very least the good news today is that there is no further ban on families meeting. However, as an avid cinema goer, surely this 10pm ban will kill them off utterly. Removing the one busy time they have meaning all films must begin by 7pm at the latest? Criminal.

142202 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Danny, 3, #278 of 2914 🔗

I am rather afraid we don’t yet know whether that’s the case, I rather think Boris will have some more nasties to reveal today.

142222 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #279 of 2914 🔗

Getting vulnerable people to stay indoors for the winter has got to be on the list.

142238 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #280 of 2914 🔗

But wouldn’t that be going half way to what the more rational scientists have been saying? Surely Boris’s instincts will be to lock everyone in their houses for the winter.

142182 Chris Hume, 24, #281 of 2914 🔗

It is not correct to suggest that Nick Triggle of the BBC may have ‘finally’ seen the light. His articles have been sensible and fairly sceptical from the outset. Considering he is employed by the BBC, I think he is a full blown sceptic who has had to rein it in a bit to allow him to continue publishing. He and Debra Cohen deserve a huge amount of credit.

142189 Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #282 of 2914 🔗

The graph (to-the-moon) that, in small print, wasn’t a projection just an idea WAS deliberately given as a psy-op. Look for clues on the graphic – alarming red bars – why red? Normal graphic language might have shaded/dotted/ghosted the projection (to-the-moon). Then the curve itself framed by x/y ratio to entirely dominate the graphic – to raise alarm. Esentially Hokusai (The Wave) was plagarised with a blood red graphic.

Then there was no other visual to give an alternative ‘real’ data. So the nation at large was plunged into on imaginary mental plain after 24 hours or so of destabilising looming fear. This was planned. Coldly.

As I wrote yesterday, the graph (to-the-moon) did nothing that a hand gesture could have got across. The blue ‘real’ element of the graph might have been presented followed by talk -this was a talk afterall- about the range of possible projections.

If the projection was purely imaginary the why did they settle for a graphic that merely climbed so rapidly to such a height? Why not even steeper with more imaginary doom? Perhaps they did not want to scare us too much with their fantasy, or maybe they did not to look to absurd. They failed. What I suggest caused the graph (to-the-moon) to look precisely the way it did was scale.

The current tiny blue ‘real’ data had to be visible on screen to veiwers, if it wasn’t the graph would have show the giant red wave appearing out of nothing. Essentially, in fact, that is what it did. Aiming to produce fear and alarm, the graphic artist over-stretched the scaling. That is what people instinctively spotted. An absurdity contrived to cleverly manipulate opinion but it backfired because the artist struggled to present the miniscule ‘real’ data alongside the Whitty/Vallance ordered maximum fear sized imaginary data.

Others have already pointed out the blood red bars represent a low CFR comparative to other ailments, again suggesting the pure visual theatre employed deliberately to deceive our nation.

142191 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Basics, 7, #283 of 2914 🔗

Yes. No error bars either because then it just looks ridiculous. It was a Hockey Stick graph. And look what that started

142197 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mhcp, 1, #284 of 2914 🔗

A fine point another graphic with horrendous form the infamous Hockey Stick of global catastrophe.

142195 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Basics, 1, #285 of 2914 🔗

Others have already pointed out the blood red bars represent a low CFR…

Just a moment. We are normally sceptical about the misuse of the word ‘case’, but we then seem to be using the very same ‘case’ data to calculate the CFR from.

We should not do that otherwise we are legitimising the ‘enemy’s’ arbitrary re-definition of established words.

142206 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, #286 of 2914 🔗

Discussed elsewhere on this page. The forecast suggests an IFR of 0.4% (very low) and a CFR of 0.04%

142210 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #287 of 2914 🔗

You are correct. My use was refering to cases with symptoms admitted to hospital requiring treatment and tgerefore qed being a case.
The language surrounding cases has been part of the deliberate fraud. I did not think.

Dead people/hospital people/non hospital people/non ill non hospital people/positive test people/false positive test people/people.

142217 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Basics, 2, #288 of 2914 🔗

I wasn’t having a go at you Basics – Toby does the same thing in his News section. But I think we should try to maintain the high ground in this argument!

142293 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #289 of 2914 🔗

It’s good to point it out. I am glad you did. My follow up was to display the chain of people’s circumstances. A case should not be second on my list – person with positive (possible false) should not be a case -as you rightly say.

The language has been altered to cover the fraud of covid19 data. In that sense it is a key part of altering out society. You are correct.

142215 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Basics, 3, #290 of 2914 🔗

looking at the governments own data I cant see it doubling every 7-8 days as they stated. it just isn’t

142283 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to steve_w, 1, #291 of 2914 🔗

It doesn’t need to the small print was licence to present high lunacy.

It’s literally the job of the scientific profession to stand up and shout this is awful communication by our ‘top’ science guy, ditto for the mrdical profession. To mislead the public and point to the small print disclaimer is snake oil salesmen trickery. Scum the pair of them.

142193 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 4, #292 of 2914 🔗

Sadly, another group of “experts” had produced an open letter to counter the Gupta/Sikora/Heneghan one.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3702

Any chance of a take-down?

142209 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to mattghg, 9, #293 of 2914 🔗

Meanwhile a letter from Trisha Greenhalgh…

Say no more. She will be trembling with excitement at the prospects of extending mandatory gimp masks to outdoors and eventually our own homes. Look at her twitter feed. She’s a lunatic, rabid, Trump-hating fanatic on a power trip.

142212 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #294 of 2914 🔗

Yes she just wants to bring down the Government. I am sure Boris knows that.

How can someone like that be so bitter and miserable and not see the risks of the collateral damage of not taking a different perspective.

She and Carl clearly don’t get on.

Don’t forget the Far Left educational voices will do anything to reverse Brexit and destroy Johnson.

142449 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to hotrod, 2, #295 of 2914 🔗

No one can destroy Johnson as well as Johnson himself has done.

142214 ▶▶ dpj, replying to mattghg, 4, #296 of 2914 🔗

Once again the counter argument mentions tens of thousands of young people suffering from the dreadful dehabilitating ‘long covid’.
This was mentioned on here at the weekend. Does anyone know anyone who is in this category or seen any evidence of it?
I am assuming that anyone who ends up ill and in hospital but recovers will take some time to return to normal but I am unaware of many people under 60 that have been very ill.

142224 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to dpj, 3, #297 of 2914 🔗

Back in the 80s it used to be called “Yuppie Flu”.

142273 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lucan Grey, #298 of 2914 🔗

And later this week it will be outbreaks of Freshers Flu

142226 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to dpj, 3, #299 of 2914 🔗

It’s an unquantifiable, mysterious, anecdotal (a.k.a. psychosomatic) ‘disease’ that can always be trotted out whenever the data threatens to suggest that Covid is less dangerous than flu or that Sweden got it right.

142265 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #300 of 2914 🔗

There are post viral effects that last, Guillain Barre, Stevens-Johnson (children), encephalitis or blood clotting issues BUT these effects can follow ANY infection. I have seen GBS following gastroenteritis, once. I have seen thrombocytopenia once following gastroenteritis. These are usually due to an overreaction of the immune system.

142829 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to p02099003, 1, #301 of 2914 🔗

I had an argument with one of the shills on the Spectator comment trails on this. They started with claiming it was causing kidney damage (which could simply be undiagnosed PKD) and then moved on to various other conditions. When I presented them with evidence that flu could cause pulmonary embolisms they gave up.

142883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Andrew Fish, #302 of 2914 🔗

I understood it was the ventilators that caused kidney damage.

142885 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Andrew Fish, #303 of 2914 🔗

Remdesivir treatment is associated with kidney damage.

143323 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Kevin 2, #304 of 2914 🔗

It’s all part of the “long COVID” narrative. Basically, if people aren’t dying in sufficient numbers the shills try to shift onto the idea that lots of people are being scarred for life by the disease instead. Since most of these people will be conveniently unaware of the damage, it can’t be falsified with data.

142240 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to dpj, 5, #305 of 2914 🔗

My friend who is in his fifties was knocked for six by the covid he contracted at Cheltenham but he was back to normal within six weeks.

I would be intrigued to hear whether “long covid” is an issue in Sweden; I suspect Carrie would probably confirm they haven’t actually heard of such a condition…

142244 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to dpj, 4, #306 of 2914 🔗

I imagine any disease which can kill you can give you long term symptoms just short of killing you.

If the IFR is 0.1% for under 70s, then I could imagine 1% could have ongoing health issues short of death. 99% will just get over it like a normal cold. I imagine it is the same as flu in that respect

142248 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to dpj, 10, #307 of 2914 🔗

Don’t know of anyone. But I am aware of millions of people who feel utterly exhausted and sick every day because of the destruction of their lives and livelihoods.

142272 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to dpj, 1, #308 of 2914 🔗
142274 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to dpj, 1, #309 of 2914 🔗

That can happen after flu or pneumonia. People underestimate how long convalescence can take.

142677 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to dpj, 2, #310 of 2914 🔗

This happens with all serious virus infections, not just Covid-19. It is a nutrient deficiency as the body uses a lot more nutrients when fighting a virus such as vitamin A, vitamin C, Zinc, Selenium and the B vitamins

142696 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to dpj, 5, #311 of 2914 🔗

I think that the idea of “long-covid” is a false flag and six months in I can’t see that there would be enough data to support that assertion.

My view FWIW is that people aren’t used to being seriously ill and those who have a had covid-19 along the spectrum of severity underestimate the convalescence period required to recover. These people think that they can return to full health immediately.

To illustrate the point I contracted Chicken Pox as an adult in my thirty’s. It was pretty grim. At the time I was a mid-distance runner, running many miles a week. Four weeks after diagnosis I returned to work but felt fatigued all the time. Four weeks after that I decided to re-commence my training and the first thing I underestimated was just how much CP had taken out of me: It was like I had never run before, I could barely run a 100 yards without getting breathless. Nevertheless I did return to full fitness but it did take many weeks to do so.

142881 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to dpj, #312 of 2914 🔗

I am entirely suspicious of the apparent ‘long covid’ notion. It will apply to those who survived hospitalisation in the early months, particularly the minority that survived venting. And dexamethazone treatment is neither safe or effective and can itself cause long-term damage. Remdesivir similarly can and does cause renal and hepatic toxicity.

As is shown here:-

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30317-2/fulltext

And here:-

http://www.francesoir.fr/societe-sante/did-gilead-company-hide-true-toxicity-veklury-c-remdesivir

Right from the word go, the UK had very high mortality among hospitalised patients compared to most other countries, and I think this was due to very unsound treatment protocols.

Part of the current narrative is to keep on saying that the virus is still as virulent as in the spring. I simply don’t believe it. I don’t think the Cytokine storm and acute respiratory distress features of the secondary illness stage are still happening in any significant number at all.

The ruthless suppression of HCQ which is very effective at the mild to moderate stage is one of the biggest heinous evils of the whole damn panic.

142300 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to mattghg, 1, #313 of 2914 🔗

Website has a total bottom of article a poll about elimination of virus… we can all respond… current views are this. Feels all very brexit

142334 ▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Country Mumkin, #314 of 2914 🔗

Done.

142888 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Country Mumkin, #315 of 2914 🔗

Thanks, I missed that. Voted and it’s running 54.73 against “elimination of the virus” (talk about unicorns!)

142304 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to mattghg, #316 of 2914 🔗

I saw this. I am not a scientist but it didn’t seem very scientific in nature. Then I googled Trisha Greenhalgh. But there are more of them signing. Really don’t get this.

142196 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 12, #317 of 2914 🔗

Morning! Are you ready for the madness to continue today?! I’ve just drafted this latest letter that I intend to send to my MP, Kier Starmer and Graham Brady. Can you let me know what you think asap, e.g. any changes, etc.? I thought I’d use the data from today’s post:

Dear Sir,

I am once again writing to you to express my deep concerns regarding the government’s obsession with lockdowns, and associated policies such as mask wearing, rule of 6, etc. despite their measurable ineffectiveness.

Yesterday, the nation was subjected to yet another round of doom mongering from Patrick Vallance and Chris Whitty as they once again attempted to baffle the British people with misleading graphs and information.

Without doubt this was stage setting for the Prime Minister’s announcement today concerning the Covid19 ‘crisis’ and the possibility of further unnecessary restrictions.

However, things need to be put into perspective and proportion.

If Mr Vallance and Mr Whitty are correct to say that cases will reach approximately 50,000 a day in October with 200 people dying a day, which I seriously doubt given how wrong such models have been in the past and given that around 90% of these cases are false positives, even this isn’t cause for alarm since this equates to a case fatality rate of 0.4% and an infection fatality rate of 0.04%, which is less than that of seasonal flu.

I would like to know why Sweden is not being held up as a great example of how to react to this situation? Life is going on pretty much as normal over there yet in the UK we are subjected to a constant barrage of fear and panic from this government and from the media.

I must once again urge you to oppose this disproportionate response as vigorously as possible until it is too late for this nation to recover and before too many more lives are lost and disrupted because of this knee jerk reaction to a virus that is mild even by Chris Whitty’s own admission.

142203 ▶▶ matt, replying to Moomin, 2, #318 of 2914 🔗

Very good. But would change the “until” in the last para for “before” and lose the “before” that comes later in the sentence.

142205 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to matt, #319 of 2914 🔗

OK, thanks.

142231 ▶▶ Anon, replying to Moomin, 7, #320 of 2914 🔗

Can I make a suggestion (and this applies to all people communicating with their MPs, as I have).

Don’t try and disprove their numbers, don’t come up with alternative analyses, don’t focus on things like masks. Anything that can be dismissed as a bit “conspiracy”, anti-mask or amateur epidemiology gives the reader the hook to dismiss the letter (unfair, but true).

So I would keep it really simple (i) what is the evidence for this new “second wave” in the virus (politely point out that what Whitty and Valance presented yesterday wasn’t empirical and was even claimed not to be a forecast); (ii) what is the Government trying to achieve as its objective in relation to this “second wave”; (iii) what basis and analysis supports their conviction that their proposed solution will achieve this objective; (iv) have they fully analysed the costs, downsides and collateral damage from this solution; and (v) how have they concluded that the solution is proportionate to the risk posed by the “second wave”.

The only way we are going to get the Government to change tack is not by presenting alternative scenarios or by attacking their modelling. It will be by them being forced, under parliamentary and media scrutiny, to reveal the poverty of their own work, conclusions and justification for action.

Good luck.

142636 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Anon, 2, #321 of 2914 🔗

Thanks for the advice, I’ll try and bear that in mind for future correspondence. BTW, one MP has already replied saying he ‘completely agrees’ with me! Perhaps the tide is turning after all!

142258 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Moomin, 2, #322 of 2914 🔗

Thanks. Used it as the basis for yet another letter to my MP.

142287 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Basileus, #323 of 2914 🔗

Great! Hold on a minute though, I haven’t even sent mine yet!!

142834 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Moomin, 1, #324 of 2914 🔗

Aha, he’ll be able to claim prior art now…

143560 ▶▶ PWL, replying to Moomin, #325 of 2914 🔗

I think you wasted your time. Find others in your community who think like you, and get organised.

142198 Now More Than Ever, replying to Now More Than Ever, 9, #326 of 2914 🔗

I sent on the letter by Profs Gupta, Heneghan and Sikora to my (Conservative) MP as part of a wider message urging against a second lockdown. I received this sneer as part of his reply.
“I did see the letter from the other group of scientists you mention, I do like to hear a variety of opinions as I hope do you. I find looking at minority opinions is very useful in clarifying and holding to account what others are saying.”

142228 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Now More Than Ever, 7, #327 of 2914 🔗

Wow! That’s incredible. What a w*nker.

142236 ▶▶ Anon, replying to Now More Than Ever, 6, #328 of 2914 🔗

Presumably you have the email with his Parliamentary letterhead? Why not send it to Toby so he can publish it on the website (redacting your name of course), you could also send it to Sir Graham Brady (especially if your MP is Conservative) and to Lindsay Hoyle with a formal compliant about your MP.

If you chose to do so, I would send it to the Sun, Telegraph, Mail and Spectator. All of them have adjusted their attitude in relation to the Government’s handling of this and such a response might make a nice little sub-column.

You could also post it below the MP’s Twitter feed or on his Parliamentary Facebook page.

Of course, you might not want to have anything more to do with it and it is risky putting one’s head above the parapet, but I would send it to Toby, Brady and Hoyle.

142263 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Now More Than Ever, 4, #329 of 2914 🔗

I would ask him to state in what way he is ‘holding others to account’, and what part of their position he has questioned. (It would also be interesting to know how he gets his shirt so well stuffed!).

142410 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #330 of 2914 🔗

Very arrogant and presumptuous. I second Annie’s suggestion about sending a copy of the reply to the people she mentioned (include Simon Dolan as well). These MPs need to be taken down a peg or two and reminded that they are sitting on those green benches due to the will of the people and they are there to serve.

A lesson that needs constant repetition all day, every day.

142201 2 pence, 3, #331 of 2914 🔗

Meanwhile in Russia…

Russia won’t need a new coronavirus lockdown, official saysThe growth of cases is connected to the beginning of the
respiratory illness season in the country, according to the official

https://tass.com/society/1203143

142211 John Ballard, 9, #332 of 2914 🔗

Nice to see that all of the best comments on the daily mail site are very anti Boris now.
The worst comments are all pro lockdown , Covid Marshalls and even martial law!
Momentum is building but more politicians need to do what they are paid to do and debate and question the rubbish coming from the buffoon and hapless Hancock

142213 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #333 of 2914 🔗

Burley on Sky news making a big thing of viewers being able to do her job tomorrow. They are asking for questions to be submitted to sky on the subject of coronavaccines. Will be answered on tomorrow prog by ‘expert’.

Trailing her email address and her twitter. Needs a title quickquestion or something.

142671 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 1, #334 of 2914 🔗

Who is expert?

142216 Samhurt, replying to Samhurt, 4, #335 of 2914 🔗

A Pox upon Party ‘Science’ – a Pox upon Compliance Incorporated!

“It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any “conspiracy theory of history;” for a search for “conspiracies” means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds. If, however, any tyranny imposed by the State, or venality, or aggressive war, was caused not by the State rulers but by mysterious and arcane “social forces,” or by the imperfect state of the world or, if in some way, everyone was responsible (“We Are All Murderers,” proclaims one slogan), then there is no point to the people becoming indignant or rising up against such misdeeds. Furthermore, an attack on “conspiracy theories” means that the subjects will become more gullible in believing the “general welfare” reasons that are always put forth by the State for engaging in any of its despotic actions. A “conspiracy theory” can unsettle the system by causing the public to doubt the State’s ideological propaganda.

“[…] In the present more secular age, the divine right of the State has been supplemented by the invocation of a new god, Science. State rule is now proclaimed as being ultrascientific, as constituting planning by experts. But while “reason” is invoked more than in previous centuries, this is not the true reason of the individual and his exercise of free will; it is still collectivist and determinist, still implying holistic aggregates and coercive manipulation of passive subjects by their rulers. The increasing use of scientific jargon has permitted the State’s intellectuals to weave obscurantist apologia for State rule that would have only met with derision by the populace of a simpler age. A robber who justified his theft by saying that he really helped his victims, by his spending giving a boost to retail trade, would find few converts; but when this theory is clothed in Keynesian equations and impressive references to the “multiplier effect,” it unfortunately carries more conviction. And so the assault on common sense proceeds, each age performing the task in its own ways.”

– Rothbard, “Anatomy of the State”

142577 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Samhurt, 2, #336 of 2914 🔗

Maybe ” Exposing Fraud, Bias , Negligence and Hype in Science ” by Stuart Richie, pub.Bodley Head should be perused.

142218 Albie, 15, #337 of 2914 🔗

The only plus currently is that the numbers of people in our camp are ever increasing. Pro lockdowners are rapidly diminishing. Particularly over the past fortnight the shift feels huge. More and more are asking questions- finally!

142220 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #338 of 2914 🔗

Gove saying working from home to be promoted from thursday

Mask wearing to get the economy totally pointless on the economic level not just the hamster level.

142233 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 3, #339 of 2914 🔗

Working from the office did not last long.

142251 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #340 of 2914 🔗

Expect the public to be attacked for working from home (again) a couple of weeks later.

142259 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Andrew Fish, #341 of 2914 🔗

I think it is really useful to put speculation or more crystalized predictors down. It gives us an idea of how deeply wrong things have become. Stops normalisation of this attack.

142284 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Basics, 3, #342 of 2914 🔗

Gove said masks wouldn’t be mandatory in shops so who knows if what he’s saying is true!

142486 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Moomin, 1, #343 of 2914 🔗

I like the way Gove (on R4) had a very polite go at the interviewer for wanting more restrictions in one question and less restrictions in the next. Boris would have just floundered.

142670 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, #344 of 2914 🔗

Gove must GO

142223 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #345 of 2914 🔗

New app in England by Friday. £10bn put to good use at last?
Can £10bn be spent on an app – Friday will tell.

142241 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 3, #346 of 2914 🔗

£10bn on an app and the back end to support it is crazy money, for that amount we could have all been paired with our own personal health professional.

142246 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, #347 of 2914 🔗

I was hoping matt would be along to cut and paste his can’t be done. It can’t, never the less that is what was reported – £10bn on an app. It’s our money so where did it go?

142286 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Basics, 2, #348 of 2914 🔗

£1.00 a day for the bananas for the billion chimpanzees needed to generate the code by random presses on a keyboard?
£10 billion is stupid money, as everyone is locked down we can reduce our defence budget.

142299 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, 4, #349 of 2914 🔗

I have chased my FOI for the expenses sheet.

142346 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 2, #350 of 2914 🔗

Thanks for submitting the foi. Good luck with it.

142305 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 2, #351 of 2914 🔗

Was slow. But here I am. Maybe I’m boring you, but it _is_ impossible to spend £10bn on developing an app.

I think it was Offlands who put in an FOI on this. Did it ever come back?

142337 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #352 of 2914 🔗

Not at all matt. It’s a sound point you make. Insane absurd to even report such a figure, but there it was. I’m looking forward to the explanation as much as you. It can’t be right, but where did that money go.

New people are looking in all the time so covering the same things is useful. Also keeps matters in peoples minds too.

Not in the least bit boring.

142896 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #353 of 2914 🔗

That’s £149 for every person in the UK.

142256 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Basics, 7, #354 of 2914 🔗

To my mind nobody would get involved with the ‘app’ or get tested unless they have to for work/medical reasons. One way to get the case/test numbers down would be if everyone refused to get tested.

142267 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #355 of 2914 🔗

I agree. And add that it would be interesting to understand how many people across the popukatiin are unable to access use of the app and what socio/economic factors are in play. In short it appears targeted to the chattering class. Which, if true, give a clue as to where the government feel it is worth spending money for their ends.

142271 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 5, #356 of 2914 🔗

Because those who would drive 200 miles to get a test are the people who will install an app on theirs and their children’s phones.

142902 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Steve Martindale, #357 of 2914 🔗

Or school attendance.

142306 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Basics, 1, #358 of 2914 🔗

You can’t spend £10bn on an app. Or anything really… it’s an extreme amount of notes

142331 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #359 of 2914 🔗

Put it this way. I’m aware of a project around 10 years ago where a certain very large American systems integrator with a 3 letter name spent 2 years developing and deploying a new point of sales system for a certain large UK high street retailer. This was the development of a brand new system from the ground up (not an app) and then deployment across hundreds of stores (much more difficult than developing and deploying an app).

The team consisted of around 80 to 100 people, a mixture of regulars and contractors.

The integrator in question is known for being just about the most expensive in the business.

The retailer was paying around £40M a year.

Now, granted that was 10 years ago or so and there has been some inflation since, but it is completely impossible that the government could legitimately have spent 25 x as much in 3 months developing a mobile app, regardless of how complex it tried to be.

142456 ▶▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to matt, 1, #360 of 2914 🔗

‘The Mythical Man Month’ should be required reading for government IT projects. It’s over 50 years old now but three quarters of the points it makes are still totally relevant.

142339 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Country Mumkin, #361 of 2914 🔗

See above/below – I know but…!

142344 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, #362 of 2914 🔗

A typo got my maths wrong. 250 x as much.

142242 Basics, replying to Basics, 13, #363 of 2914 🔗

Lisa Nandy: herd immunity means letting the virus rip through the population letting some people die for the greater good. Sky News.

Why she has being allowing Influenza to ‘rip-though’ our society. Fucking awful thick person. Then next breath she says to the nation how she likes working from home as she can still be in her pyjama bottoms as she speaks to the nation. Fuck off.

142245 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 1, #364 of 2914 🔗

She has just arrived on TalkRADIO go JHB

142250 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #365 of 2914 🔗

She needs skinning alive in some mad malcolm tucker way.

142261 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Basics, 7, #366 of 2914 🔗

She’s been letting colds rip through the population too – and no dooubt spreading them herself. She must have killed hundreds of elderly folk.

She ought to turn herself in at her local nick.

142249 Nessimmersion, 4, #367 of 2914 🔗

The Two Ronnies or
Beavis & Butthead?

Unable to do stats?, why not try a promising career as a bureaucrat instead of all that messy stuff dealing with real people.

142253 PaulH, replying to PaulH, 24, #368 of 2914 🔗

“No, the restrictions must continue until we have a vaccine.”

As each day goes by this whole thing looks more like a vaccine sales pitch than any attempt to protect the public.

Herd immunity – especially T-cell immunity – is wilfully ignored and all good news from places like Sweden falls on deaf ears.

Instead all faith is placed on a vaccine with no long term safety record, that may just mitigate not prevent infection and for which the makers won’t even take liability for any injury. It might not even be licensed. What could possibly go wrong?

And that’s not to mention the sinister biometric “health passports” that they seem to have waiting for us in the wings, which could so easily be used to shut out anyone who declines their jab. And that’s not to mention their likely use in a Chinese-style social credit system and a cashless society.

I am neither anti-vax nor one of David Icke’s followers, but Johnson’s government is making Icke look a bit more like a prophet than a crank every day.

142288 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to PaulH, 8, #369 of 2914 🔗

Your last paragraph is important, I believe. There is definitely something suspicious about the whole lockdown insistence….almost like orders are coming from “above”.

142519 ▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #370 of 2914 🔗

Yep. Back in April-May, I thought they would quickly reverse their errors and listen to new evidence.

But this feels like a script. Hence no deviation. Worrying.

142594 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to thedarkhorse, #371 of 2914 🔗

Yes, I feel this is true. I’m no expert, but Boris’ body language, and that of the Two Ronnies strongly suggests they don’t believe themselves what they are saying.

142382 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to PaulH, 8, #372 of 2914 🔗

With all of the ridiculousness around just now, it does come to a stage where you think Icke et al might just have a point.

142489 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Andy C, 2, #373 of 2914 🔗

Yeah it reached the point now where someone called a “crank” is now a “prophet”

142785 ▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, #374 of 2914 🔗

More new Mark stuff. Again, nothing too exceptionable. Are you really determined to continue using a duplicate handle here? (Granted, the software should not allow it, but there’s no need for you to choose to do it, either.)

142930 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mark, 2, #375 of 2914 🔗

Why don’t you change your user name? There is another one of me floating around as well. So I’ve just added a number to my handle. Not a big deal.

143343 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Kevin 2, #376 of 2914 🔗

Just creates pointless confusion. Better obviously for the software not to allow duplicates, or for people not to choose names already in use.

142925 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to PaulH, 2, #377 of 2914 🔗

As regards vaccines, I simply apply the same principle to vaccines as any other medical intervention; there must be informed consent. And information about the toxicity and limited efficacy of vaccines is and has been obscured for decades. Thus we are not informed and we may not be able to consent. The vaccination may not be mandatory in name, but it will be de facto mandatory (if they can get away with it..)

‘Anti-vaxxer’, along with ‘conspiracy theorist’ are just bits of terminology that have been hijacked to villify those with legitimate views that are outside of officially sanctioned narratives.

142255 steve_w, replying to steve_w, #378 of 2914 🔗

The govt ‘cases’ data doesn’t support a doubling every 7-8 days. But this does https://covid.joinzoe.com/data but its impossible to see how they come up with the numbers

142278 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to steve_w, #379 of 2914 🔗

Getting decent robust data on all aspects of this virus hoo-haa has been difficult, I wonder if we could do with a data sheet linked to this newsletter where we summarise all relevant data?
Whilst it is going to take more than just data to blow this all away it is one important aspect. Given that the Witty/Valence muppet show yesterday did feature lots of dodgy data I do think we need to keep an eye on the developing data and maybe a data sheet would be helpful?

142329 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Steve Martindale, #380 of 2914 🔗

I just downloaded https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases and fitted a ‘doubling every 7 days’ to it. They are just incomparable

The only way to get them close is to assume a fpr of 0.3%(750 cases a day or so).

not sure how to upload the graph

142260 Nigel King, replying to Nigel King, 19, #381 of 2914 🔗

I ws at that event on Saturday. In my opinion any trouble that occurred was entirely the fault of the police. Whilst they were there in large groups an air of menace permeated Trafalgar square It was clear from shortly after 3.30 when fully laden riot Van’s appeared en masse that trouble was brewing and the police were going to be causing ALL of it. This event had a similar feel to it as being at a the Latitude festival in Suffolk. A great vibe.
Everyone should be deeply concerned when such actions are taken against a peaceful but large group many thousands strong at least rather than the thousand erroneously (wilful lying??) as reported by the the Bbc Radio 4 news and the Guardian online. A high proportion of the people there were women and children of all.ages.
Any police involved in this disgraceful over reaction should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves and those with half an ounce of sense really need to start questioning what they were asked to do.

142409 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Nigel King, 2, #382 of 2914 🔗

I left before the charge as I could sense there was going to be trouble-there hadn’t been any up to that. It had been a good day out, being able to talk and interact with people who had faces

142742 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nigel King, 1, #383 of 2914 🔗

At the free speech demos the side streets off Whitehall were full of vans with SPG types getting tooled up in their armour. They looked pretty disappointed at the pensioners’ outing (mostly, there were a few pissed brawlers).

142944 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Nigel King, #384 of 2914 🔗

From the first video coverage I saw, I thought that it was a small section of the crowd that were initiating the trouble. But I now know that the opposite was true.

142264 alw, replying to alw, 6, #385 of 2914 🔗

Went for my annual flu jab yesterday. Instead of being in the large doctors surgery they used the local church, as if the virus can tell the difference between a surgery and the church. In any event what a waste of NHS money which will result in cuts to services in the future all paid for by you and me the taxpayer. My triumph was holding up my exemption lanyard and no one batting an eyelid.

142275 ▶▶ Basics, replying to alw, 5, #386 of 2914 🔗

I’m still talking to people about exemtions, people are grateful to know about them. They still are not widely known about. I have also spoken to people who are exempt, would be grateful for not wearing masks, but say the social shaming is too much to bear so they wear a mask.

142302 ▶▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Basics, 7, #387 of 2914 🔗

My dad is 93, he has serious COPD breathing difficulties, and cannot walk more than 10 yards without pausing for breath. He wears a mask when he goes to the shops because he fears the social shaming.

142333 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 7, #388 of 2914 🔗

No words for the cruelty of some of what’s going on.

I can only say I would like to be on site if there was social shaming of any 94 yr old.

142583 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #389 of 2914 🔗

Just one of thousands, millions, of reasons why the cabal should suffer serious consequences when this madness is over.

142769 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #390 of 2914 🔗

I’ve noticed that as well. My sunflower lanyard is a great conversation starter and people are grateful to learn that they can be exempt and not need to wear a mask. However the social shaming and possibility of bullying is why they still carry on wearing them despite its obvious to me and them that they are uncomfortable and should not be wearing them in the first place.

142281 ▶▶ stewart, replying to alw, 4, #391 of 2914 🔗

Let’s salute the bravery of the health workers… sending people to be dealt with at a church.

142289 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to stewart, 4, #392 of 2914 🔗

Please don’t tar us all with the same brush. Some of us have been seeing patients face to face as normal.

142342 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to p02099003, 3, #393 of 2914 🔗

Credit to you. I have a hospital appointment next week, had a letter saying we have to mask. I want to challenge them, is healthcare to be denied to the disabled?

142458 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to p02099003, 1, #394 of 2914 🔗

Good to hear.

Regarding not tarring everyone with the same brush, presumably the same should go for the clapping?

The NHS as a an organisation has. a lot to answer for right now.

142913 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stewart, #395 of 2914 🔗

Yes, despite the NHS taking good care of me through a couple of illnesses around 2007, I doubt I will every voluntarily use them again. I’d rather suffer with an illness than walk through their doors again. I just wish I could get off my GPs list since they obviously gave my data to Ipsos MORI who keep sending me letters – and today, a text – “offering” me a test.

142266 Anon, replying to Anon, 11, #396 of 2914 🔗

I haven’t posted here before. I think we need to think practically and grasp the opportunity here. I believe the chink in their armour is the evidence (or lack of). We shouldn’t go down the rabbit hole of trying to present alternative analyses, we should simply be demanding that MPs do their jobs and the Government presents its case to justify the measures proposed.

Toby, please can you lobby your media contacts to ask the following questions (i) what is the evidence for this second wave?; (ii) what is the Government’s objective in relation to it?; (iii) what analysis and evidence supports their conviction that their proposed solution will achieve the objective; (iv) have they analysed and quantified the costs and downsides (social, health and economic)?; and (v) how have they concluded that the proposed solution is proportionate to the risk posed by the second wave?

There is no hint at conspiracy theory, not amateur epidemiology, no dismissing Covid as “just flu” simply asking that MPs and journalists ask the obvious questions.

Keep the focus extremely narrow and factual and, especially on the basis of what I saw yesterday, they really don’t have any answers.

142282 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Anon, 2, #397 of 2914 🔗

I like your comment, but I bridle slightly at the ‘amateur epidemiology’ put-down (although I know what you are saying). It is my sincere belief that as one of the aforementioned amateur epidemiologists I know more than Neil Ferguson about the limitations of models, particularly his ‘My First Model’ SIR version.

142421 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #398 of 2914 🔗

unfortunatly it only takes one Neil Ferguson to damage the perception of the whole profession. It doesn’t do us programmers much good either , even through we’ve been pointing out that Ferguson’s code is round objects since April.

142578 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Anon, 1, #399 of 2914 🔗

Good post. Since the end game is vaccination, with some degree of compulsion I expect, can we also start asking questions about existing flu vaccines? I have seen different figures for their effectiveness (around 50%, or around 17%) but what does “effective” mean? Effective as in you don’t catch it, or effective as in it doesn’t kill you?

Hancock keeps referring to a vaccine as “the cavalry” as if it was going to be 100% effective with no adverse side effects. Experience should tell us that this is very far from the case with vaccines usually, at least with the flu vaccine. It would help if we could get some narrative going in the media around this subject.

142743 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to charleyfarley, 1, #400 of 2914 🔗

More like the “Charge of the Light Brigade”…

142269 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #401 of 2914 🔗

Whitty and Valance’s graph presentation reminded me of Denis Healy and his graph presentation many decades ago.

Denis’ graph was intended to prove what a successful job he’d done – so a bit different in intent, but it were thought an outrageous manipulation of the figures at the time.

Hopefully Messers Whitty and Valance might have done for themselves – this could well transpire to be seen later as their “dodgy dossier” presentation. Clever work Dom perhaps to off load it on them – no wonder Johnson wanted to hold on to Dominic.

142277 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ned of the Hills, #402 of 2914 🔗

Sir Patrick back to the private sector, Professor Chris some uni position? Or both into the Lords?

142276 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 6, #403 of 2914 🔗

My son is a primary school teacher and he has to wear a visor throughout the day, why?
My daughter is a civil servant in the MoD, and she has to wear a mask all day. Why?

142307 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to p02099003, 9, #404 of 2914 🔗

No he doesn’t have to. He merely needs to self certify exemption, citing the government guidance. Too many people so easily controlled. No employer would ever have me wearing a muzzle under the current rules.

142313 ▶▶ stewart, replying to p02099003, 2, #405 of 2914 🔗

They’re following the science.
(Completely straight face, I promise)

142642 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to p02099003, 1, #406 of 2914 🔗

Visors…what the hell are they supposed to do to protect people….Absolutely fucking mental….Idiots

142285 MizakeTheMizan, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 21, #407 of 2914 🔗

I see that Toby is still clinging on to the hope that Boris & Co are still trying to cover for a colossal cock-up.

I’m afraid my hopes for that were dashed weeks ago, and for my wife, who is a pathologist depressed through sheer boredom at the hospital where she works, that hope was finally extinguished yesterday.

This has to be something far more sinister than simple incompetence.

142296 ▶▶ stewart, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 11, #408 of 2914 🔗

People in power rarely admit they screwed up. Look at Tony Blair, still insisting invading Iraq was the right thing to do.

142322 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to stewart, 4, #409 of 2914 🔗

all you can do is change the leadership. in Physics, new theories don’t become accepted, you just have to wait for old Physicists to die

142318 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 6, #410 of 2914 🔗

Totally agree. This will make The Holocaust seem like child’s play. I hope I’m wrong but I cannot see evidence, none, that convinces me that this is nothing more than a cull. They are literally getting away with mass murder.

142327 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Arnie, 7, #411 of 2914 🔗

certainly the predictions from the world food program, UN etc of the effects of the lockdowns far outweight anything from covid

142404 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 2, #412 of 2914 🔗

I take your point but I have almost limitless faith not just in their incompetence but in their arrogance that we won’t notice or question things. Their opinion of the general public is that we are idiots who can be fooled and much of the time they are right. But the tide really is turning.

142290 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #413 of 2914 🔗

Sick of the incorrect use of the word “cases”, Burnham of Manchester getting my blood pressure up. Also going down the conspiracy theorist route, JHB putting him straight that the like of Prof. Heneghan are not conspiracy theorists.

142301 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #414 of 2914 🔗

More garbage on the test, track, trace and control from Burnham. To start with the tests are dog droppings as they are being used now and too many are getting tested with no need. I doubt the stupidity factor is so high in Germany. From mp’s to school teachers to GP’s we are a shambles.

142321 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #415 of 2914 🔗

Burnham just on Skynews live. Its a circuit for these clowns isn’t in. He say precisely the opposite of what Hrneghan said to do. That is Lockdown now so we can maybe have a Christmas.

142291 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 14, #416 of 2914 🔗

I detect s change on GMB. Piers Morgan showing a degree of sceptism and questioning the official government narrative. Dr Hilary lamely trying to keep to the script but being challenged by Piers. Piers must know that public opinion is turning, He goes with the flow.

142316 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Gillian, 9, #417 of 2914 🔗

Piers is a twat but an influential twat. He can justify lockdown 1 to himself (unknown virus, scary, NHS etc) but now is the time anybody can reasonably shift from lockdown zealot to sceptic without loss of face. Nothing in the data, ‘cases’, hospitalisations, deaths, comparison with other countries etc justifies any ‘extreme’ measures. With covid deaths far below ‘winter illness’ deaths we should be opening up rather than shutting down.

142340 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Gillian, 6, #418 of 2914 🔗

I agree, Morgan is a total weathervane.

142406 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to mattghg, 3, #419 of 2914 🔗

The straws have been in the wind since Saturday when sports commentators started making jokes about masks and virus and there was no MSM frothing.

142341 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Gillian, 14, #420 of 2914 🔗

Piers tweeted an aggressive Pro Lockdown message yesterday. He has 7m followers. His pro lockdown stance is inadvertently impacting detrimentally to his cause because most of the replies are rejecting his view, and many are measured and pointing to evidence of the harm lockdown does. This will give pause for thought to those of his followers who are starting to have personal doubts themselves. His platform to millions is actually benefitting anti lockdown the most, in my view. Pro lockdown numbers have long peaked. It’s a one way street. Nobody will move from anti to pro, but the stream our way will be constant. There is hope.

142493 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Albie, 2, #421 of 2914 🔗

While he suffers from delusions of grandeur, the reality is that his job relies on advertising revenue. If this falls, he’s fucked.

142501 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #422 of 2914 🔗

And don’t forget falling ratings. The Defund the BBC campaign will impact on the likes of ITV, C4, Channel 5, even Sky. Once people switch off their TVs for good, he and the rest of the MSM are screwed.

142292 Kaywood, replying to Kaywood, 2, #423 of 2914 🔗

The comment about not being sure why the government is doing this and might be gagging onto the model of March is interesting but let me put a different hypothesis:

We know the government like ‘gaming’ outcomes, effectively testing ways forward in a tabletop wargame

Lets assume they have some doubts about the model as well but cannot be sure and let’s assume the desired outcome is to come out of this politically well

Using the god/no god and believe/don’t believe matrix, three outcomes point towards tighter lockdown (especially with the public largely on side)

Next, I suspect they might believe the cases may be lower than the model, but there is a lot of political capital to be gained by ‘riding the wave’ and showing how they ‘saved us all’

Gaming this sats add restrictions, if it’s bad you win and if it’s better then you win

142325 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Kaywood, 3, #424 of 2914 🔗

But they’ll be doing politically well in the context of a Mad Max landscape…

142495 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Kaywood, 4, #425 of 2914 🔗

They are not going to be able to claim to have saved us when the sheer scale of destruction becomes evident to everyone. No one will care about covid.

They know this. This is an entirely deliberate destruction of the nation. Its mass murder.

143878 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kaywood, #426 of 2914 🔗

I don’t believe the ‘public are largely onside’ anymore.

142295 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 17, #427 of 2914 🔗

So, theJohnson Government, knowing it committed and enormous cock-up in March, is now prepared to add 2m+ to the dole queue, destroy family finances, Leave people people homeless as unable to pay mortgages, thousands dead of other untreated ailments, economy decimated, small businesses ruined, kids uneducated, etc etc…all for political expediency? That ‘effing sickens me to the pit of my stomach, utterly disgusting. And we can’t do a thing about it for another 4 years, and then our alternative, Max Headroom and his cabal of useless Marxists. I despair, I really do.

142297 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #428 of 2914 🔗

Rather clever of them to introduce fix term elections.

142303 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #429 of 2914 🔗

Not that that matters anyway, I wont be surprised when MPs on all sides vote to sideline themselves for another 6 months and enable this clown show to continue.

142351 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mark II, 2, #430 of 2914 🔗

Groundhog day, six more months of no Parliamentary scrutiny

142323 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 13, #431 of 2914 🔗

Cheer up. Economic disaster is the only thing that gets us out of this. Personally I’m rooting for it.

If they managed to make the economy tick over while implementing all their cockamamie measures, the precedent of lockdowns and social distancing and all the rest of it would prevail and be used again in the future.

The only chance we have of getting back our personal responsibility and liberty is if the whole thing is a total unmitigated disaster.

142399 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to stewart, 3, #432 of 2914 🔗

Ah but it will be all our fault because we didn’t obey ‘da roolz’.

142298 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 9, #433 of 2914 🔗

Fascinating breakdown of regional figures showing drops in ‘cases’ across large parts of the country, including London. And a very pertinent point about khan no longer being a valid mayor but still trying to inflict misery on us all. What’s his obsession with face coverings I wonder? Maybe it’s a cultural thing of his 🙏

142309 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Mark II, 13, #434 of 2914 🔗

Masks are a visible signifier of conformity to the orthodox morality, the traditional Reason for there existence in other words and possibly one reason so many of us hate them

142373 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mark II, #435 of 2914 🔗

When is the next London mayoral election scheduled for?

142387 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #436 of 2914 🔗

No idea but we probably won’t be allowed out to vote and the result will be decided by an algorithm.

142436 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #437 of 2914 🔗

May 2020

142539 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Dave #KBF, #438 of 2914 🔗

I think it was put back to next May.

143461 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dave #KBF, #439 of 2914 🔗

Some months ago.

142308 Fernando, replying to Fernando, 20, #440 of 2914 🔗

Matt Hancock (to the tune of Fernando):

Can you feel the fear, Matt Hancock
I remember long ago before the country went insane
In our offices, Matt Hancock
In the theatres and in restaurants, we weren’t scared to leave our homes
I could hear distant reports from China
Viruses were coming from afar

They were closer now, Matt Hancock
Every hour, every minute seemed to bring another case
We were so afraid Matt Hancock
Average age of 80 but we weren’t prepared to let them die
And I’m not ashamed to say
The thought of Covid-19 almost made me cry

There was something in the air that night
Droplets in flight, Matt Hancock
They were waiting there to kill granny
Stuff liberty, Matt Hancock
Furlough scheme and travel quarantine
There’s no regret
Bet you’d love to lock us down again
Gone to your head, Matt Hancock

Now we’re old and poor, Matt Hancock
Since many years I haven’t seen a smile in this land
Can you feel the fear, Matt Hancock
Do you still recall that fateful night we trashed our GDP
I could see it in your eyes
How pleased you were to tell us everything was banned

There was something in the air that night
Droplets in flight, Matt Hancock
They were waiting there to kill granny
Stuff liberty, Matt Hancock
Furlough scheme and travel quarantine
There’s no regret
Bet you’d love to lock us down again
Gone to your head, Matt Hancock

142315 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Fernando, 2, #441 of 2914 🔗

Excellent. And the fact that most people on here will probably know the song will give an idea of the average age.

142395 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to stewart, 4, #442 of 2914 🔗

To be fair the young don’t seem to be taken in by this tomfoolery, in the main. It’s the mid-lifers who are maybe considering for the first time the shocking fact that we are all going to die.

142574 ▶▶ annie, replying to Fernando, 1, #443 of 2914 🔗

Live it, except that I keep seeing THAT NAME…

142898 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Fernando, #444 of 2914 🔗

Brilliant. First time I’ve laughed in days. Thank you.

143938 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #445 of 2914 🔗

Worth putting effort into that, GWKC. Keeps us all sane. 🙂

There are lots of options – Ken Dodd, Morecambe and Wise, Blackadder, Father Ted, Fawlty Towers, Bill Hicks, Carry Ons, etc. etc.

142310 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #446 of 2914 🔗

Sky news guy at the video wall stats is looking at yesterdays graph. “It is pretty terrifying isn’t it”.

He then goes on to rip bill and bens graphic to sheds laying on predictions extrapolated from France… all good. Based on French data UK wouldn’t reach a quarter of what yesterdays graph showed.

However his language is “scary” and alarming.

A few minutes segment that will repeat this morning. Worthwhile catching to see how far out yesterdays graph was according to msm.

142353 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 2, #447 of 2914 🔗

Was it Ed Conway and an ‘edited highlight’? If so, his full piece for last night’s news was pretty compelling, and he demolished, in an easy to understand way, why the CMO/CSA charts were phoney. Obviously Sky’s new owners are pushing a narrative, but Ed Conway writes some good economics articles for The Times.

142360 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #448 of 2914 🔗

anybody got a link to this? would be good to share

142378 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to steve_w, #449 of 2914 🔗
142487 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #450 of 2914 🔗

thanks! its good

142317 NickR, replying to NickR, 12, #451 of 2914 🔗

During week 36 deaths in England and Wales were 1,443 lower than the 5 year average. What’s that? Oh yes, just over 200/day!

Using the kind of extrapolation beloved of Hancock does this mean that we’re trashing the economy to stop the level of deaths going back to normal?

142326 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to NickR, 5, #452 of 2914 🔗

Yes

142319 Dave #KBF, 2, #453 of 2914 🔗

Professor Sikora coming up on TalkRADIO with JHB, between 08:30 & 09:00

142320 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 4, #454 of 2914 🔗

Would someone clever be able to enlighten me ? In the right hand chart in And Finally, it would appear that a similqr number of people died of Covid as died of Climate Change ? How does one die of Climate Change please ?

142328 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Bumble, 12, #455 of 2914 🔗

Suicide from hearing too many times about it?

142365 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to stewart, 1, #456 of 2914 🔗

Made me laugh. Cheers, much needed!

142402 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Bumble, 1, #457 of 2914 🔗

Not prevalent in the U.K. granted but floods, fires and severe weather events attributed to climate change have killed quite a few in other countries.

142414 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #458 of 2914 🔗

As you say, not in the UK. That chart is UK deaths in September. And natural events have been killing people since people have existed.

142717 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #459 of 2914 🔗

There’s no credible evidence that floods, fires or severe weather are increasing, quite the contrary in fact. Look it up.

143002 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #460 of 2914 🔗

Try telling that to people who live on the Gulf Coast of the US.

143770 ▶▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to ConstantBees, -1, #461 of 2914 🔗

Come on, you have to be more scientific than that here. Mr. Sherratt is correct, there is no convincing / empirical evidence that extreme weather events have increased over the long term, or that CO2 has caused any of the small temperature rise that has occurred since the 70s. Climate science is at the Ferguson (Neil) level, I’m afraid.

142332 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #462 of 2914 🔗

Ferguson on The Life Scientific 9am
BBC R4.

142335 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to karenovirus, 11, #463 of 2914 🔗

Imagine being so woeful at predictions your entire career and still being listened to and still having the ego to go out and tell people what to do.

142336 ▶▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Mark II, 12, #464 of 2914 🔗

Imagine being the BBC and giving this charlatan air time.

142388 ▶▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 2, #465 of 2914 🔗

No defender of the BBC but you can’t blame them from putting the nitwit on if the Government is still basing their actions on his junior epidemiolgist computer game. I wonder if you can get it on Nintendo?

142464 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to MizakeTheMizan, #466 of 2914 🔗

And Jim (?) gave him a very easy interview.

142536 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Mark II, #467 of 2914 🔗

When he was found breaking lock down to visit his mistress even his own mother-in-law defended his work (Mail or MOS article a while ago) so you have to wonder about the power of his charisma because it certainly isn’t his looks!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8294009/Neil-Fergusons-MOTHER-LAW-comes-defence-saying-believe-vilified.html

142461 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #468 of 2914 🔗

Absolutely standing by the statement that 500,000 would have died had the government done nothing, probably 50,000 more if the NHS had collapsed.

He did mention foot&mouth, SARS, swine flu but that he was hopelessly wrong on those too.

142776 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to karenovirus, 1, #469 of 2914 🔗

Absolutely standing by the statement that 500,000 would have died had the government done nothing

… and quite right too, as far as that figure goes. That was, as you’ll see from SAGE 11 on 27 February, taken as the Reasonable Worst Case scenario, and it was the correct one, based on the data available at the time.

SAGE reviewed Covid-19 planning assumptions and advised that, in the reasonable worst case scenario, 80% of the UK population may become infected, with an overall 1% fatality rate in those infected. Only a proportion of those infected will experience symptoms.

Since the RWC in the “do nothing” scenario was catastrophic, it was quite right to decide, since a decision had to be taken then and there, not to advise a “do nothing” policy.

Based on what we now see from actual experience, the number would have been more like 33% than 80%, the IFR rate would have been 1%, and the death toll in hindsight would have been, in hindsight “only” about 200,000 (plus collapse of the health service, and an unquantifiable number of consequent deaths).

The reason for the discrepancy — and I’m not for a second denying that there is one — between the estimated number from February, and those today, is not clear, but it may be that the level of pre-existing immunity was higher than assumed at the time (ie low to zero).

143788 ▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Richard Pinch, #470 of 2914 🔗

Or, to put it more succinctly, he got it completely wrong. Again.

144061 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to ChrisDinBristol, 1, #471 of 2914 🔗

No, the answer was right, at the time and in hindsight. The answer to the question, what happens if we do nothing was “catastrophic”, and based on the experience of places where do-nothing was more or less the policy, that answer was correct.

142338 John Stone, 1, #472 of 2914 🔗

Rather than admit they got it wrong, they have to remain faithful to their original hypothesis which, if you follow Ferguson’s logic, means we’ve only succeeded in postponing the apocalypse, not averting it. “

Indeed, the two Ronnie stated it, it was based on a model of exponential growth and population still without resistance.

142343 steve_w, 1, #473 of 2914 🔗

I just downloaded https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases and fitted a ‘doubling every 7 days’ to it. They are just incomparable

The only way to get them close is to assume a fpr of 0.3%(750 cases a day or so).

142345 NickR, replying to NickR, 6, #474 of 2914 🔗

Always good to have a bit of perspective on things…..200 deaths per day over the 90 day winter period would mean 18,000 excess winter deaths in 2020/21, awful, all those poor people. But hang on….. wouldn’t that be the 2nd lowest excess winter deaths level between 1995 & 2015?

  • Wouldn’t it be only 40% of the excess winter deaths in 2014/15?
  • Wouldn’t it be only 37% of the excess deaths in 1999/2000?
142352 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to NickR, 4, #475 of 2914 🔗

looks like we are going to lockdown every winter!

142349 AN other lockdown sceptic, 22, #476 of 2914 🔗

Me thinks that Mr Young has the wind in his sails …

Keep going Toby, you’re a jeffing hero and a legend.

142350 Tim Bidie, 3, #477 of 2914 🔗

WHO is in the pocket of China and well known billionaire Democratic party supporters, so anti Trump.

UK Government advisers are closely linked to WHO so support the WHO ‘pandemic’ hyperbole.

These draconian and illiberal, quite possibly illegal, restrictions of our civil liberties will continue at least until 03 Nov

‘Worst case’ numbers will be selectively quoted in support.

Where do those numbers come from?

‘A third of those who died with diagnosed or suspected COVID-19 in English hospitals did so at Tameside and Glossop Integrated Care Foundation Trust in the seven days to 10 September.

The Greater Manchester Trust has seen a significant rise in COVID-19 deaths, from a weekly total of five on 4 September to 18 six days later. The total number of COVID-19 hospital deaths in the seven days to 10 September across England was 54.

COVID-19 deaths at Tameside and Glossop had fallen to a weekly total of zero on 23 July, before beginning to climb steadily from 20 August. The last time the trust recorded 18 deaths in a seven-day period was in late April when the pandemic was still close to its first peak.

The highest seven day figure recorded by the trust was 28, meaning the 10 September figure is equivalent to 64% of its peak covid-19 mortality. Nationally, hospital deaths with the virus are running at less than 1 per cent of the early-April peak.

No other trust recorded more than three covid-19 deaths during the seven days to 10 September.’

https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/1318-single-trust-accounts-for-one-in-three-covid-hospital-deaths/

‘Nationally, Tameside is 34th out of 326 most deprived local authority.

It has the highest premature death rate for heart disease in England. In adults, the recorded diabetes prevalence, excess weight and drug and alcohol misuse are significantly worse than the England average.

Rates of smoking related deaths and hospital admissions for alcohol harm are significantly higher than the England average.

Healthy life expectancy for males is 57.7 years compared with the national average of 63.4 years; for women the healthy life expectancy is 58.3 years against a national average of 64 years. The population is predominantly white British (91%).

The trust has been inspected previously. It was rated as inadequate in 2014, requires improvement in 2015 and, at the last inspection in 2016, was rated as good (!).’ (N.B. ‘Healthy Life Expectancy’ figures not ‘Life Expectancy’)

https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/new_reports/AAAJ4091.pdf

So, correct, it is not ‘just a sniffle’ to the elderly, infirm and immunocompromised…but we have known the lethality of all common cold viruses to those groups, more lethal than influenza, in fact, for years.

And by all means bring in the Army Medics to sort out hospitals like Tameside. Do a pilot project to see if they can really make a difference. I have contracted a nosocomial infection in a military hospital so maybe they can’t, but I also owe them a debt that can never be repaid so I would bet that they really can!

If they can, then let the rest of the country, for whom this virus is ‘just another sniffle’ get on with making themselves and their country the prosperous and cheerful place it used to be…….

142356 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 4, #478 of 2914 🔗

Posted before I’m sure, but one of the best contribution on the current situation

142362 ▶▶ matt, replying to PhilipF, 1, #479 of 2914 🔗

The original is waiting to go to the framer so it can go on my wall.

142376 ▶▶▶ PhilipF, replying to matt, #480 of 2914 🔗

Nice. I have been thinking of making a purchase too.

142497 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to PhilipF, 1, #481 of 2914 🔗

Aye, ’tis a goodun!

I feel what’s going on now is a betrayal of our parents and grandparent’s stoicism. They didn’t flinch.

Alex B. deP. Johnson is apparently inspired by Churchill. There’s a bit of a difference. The later inspired the nation to be courageous – Mr. Johnson has inspired us to become wee cowering timorous beasties.

142370 IanE, 3, #482 of 2914 🔗

Well, If Carlsberg did Coronaviruses ….

142371 Strange Days, 16, #483 of 2914 🔗

Some fighting talk from Andrew Neil on Twitter this morning.
https://twitter.com/afneil

“Perhaps if you understood the difference between medicine and mathematical extrapolations you wouldn’t tweet such bollox”

“This doctor is wrong to say the “prediction” of 50,000 cases by mid-October is based on current trends. It’s not.”

142372 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 9, #484 of 2914 🔗

Sweden rocks, but herd immunity is unlikely to be the reason.
First, it’s a dubious epidimiological computer model concept not based upon medical evidence but more on the desire of the vaccine industry to vaccinate all people rather than those at risk (see Gatti/Morinati &CHDef), second, there were few cases in the Skane region, but cases aren’t rising significantly there either, despite it being the gateway into Sweden and seeing commuters back and forth from Denmark.
I am more and more convinced that masks are the real culprit: they make people ignore distancing rules, people infect themselves when fiddling with them and, if they can indeed hold back virus particles (a big IF), they turn a lowly infected non infective person into a more infected infectious one, by making him inhale his previously exhaled particles again, and deeper into the lungs- especially so if worn for a prolonged time, e.g. if, as and when mandated to be worn in schools (Germany), at the workplace France) or outside (Spain).
In addition, masks (and excessive hand washing) weaken peoples immune system by preventing the normal exchange of germs, which also makes those two practices very much the driver of the likely upcoming big flu and cold waves.
(For a change, the new German approach to erect special flu, cold&Corona symptoms only health check centres makes some sense and should be copied.)
Also, fear and anxiety weaken peoples immune system, and Swedes&Swiss(German&Italian
speaking) are the only people who live the old fearless normal way these days.

142389 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jay Berger, 22, #485 of 2914 🔗

I am more and more convinced that masks are the real culprit

Yes exactly why they were introduced, to make people sick to then claim a 2nd wave to then lock us down and continue to torture us.

A brilliant bit of mind and people control. The chance to end this was when masks were rolled out, the majority did not question it and blindly followed, the opposite IMO would of saved us and destroyed the narrative.

Then again I’m just an average bloke trying to navigate through this shit with my health, freedom and sanity intact. What do I know…..

142431 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 10, #486 of 2914 🔗

You are spot on. It was an ingenious and deliberately targeted move by the powers that shouldn’t be. These physical side effects are well understood. It was also known that there are not enough state agents to enforce the mandates, so instead the “I’m wearing mine to protect you” myth has been incessantly pushed – one of the most egregious pieces of junk science I have ever come across – to ensure that the people police themselves. This appeals to and encourages the worst aspects of human nature in order to generate further social antagonism.

As important are the psychological and ritual aspects of this as well. Wearing a mask day in and day out for months on end is breaking people down. Transforming them into slaves. Destroying their ego and self-respect, creating a blank slate to be filled with whatever the state decrees. This is especially the case for children, who are being groomed by their abusers to be the slave class of tomorrow.

142463 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, 5, #487 of 2914 🔗

It was. Recall the questioning of why now? When the masks were introduced. This wasn’t just a sceptic view point many were saying why now?

You two have it right in my view, especially that it was a moment the people could have stopped the scheme by non compliance.

Instead the attitude became – if we just put up with this now and get on with it then the sooner it will be over. From the non sceptic public I am meaning.

142530 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 4, #488 of 2914 🔗

It also ties in with Japanese seasonal flu rates being higher than Europe and the US.
Japan has tens of millions of people wearing masks in all public areas to prevent flu/ cold virus transfer.
They’ve beeen doing this for a decade, so its the planets largest real life trial, so we already knew masks didn’t work when worn by the general public.

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/

142524 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to stefarm, 5, #489 of 2914 🔗

Toby’s linked article is excellent. for example, the fact that you still have to breathe out, so powerful “jets” are formed around the edges. We really need an Engineering take-down of masks. Anyone on here with CEng etc.?

142659 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kf99, 2, #490 of 2914 🔗

Don’t forget the twatts who wear masks with an EXHAUST VALVE…Totally fucking useless…

142570 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 4, #491 of 2914 🔗

Agree and well said.

I mentioned elsewhere here that I read a conspiracy theory involving mandatory masks and the second wave. Its amazing how many people blindly followed it and not even question why they had to do it.

There’s been a lot of comments on Twitter and elsewhere where people have been complaining of the effects of mask wearing – chest infections, dizzy spells, impetigo, rashes, sinusitis…the list goes on. The extreme effects would be dying from a hypoxic or hypercapina attack.

142783 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #492 of 2914 🔗

There is also the compliance aspect as covered in the critic here:
https://thecritic.co.uk/face-masks-make-you-stupid/

142772 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #493 of 2914 🔗

herd immunity is unlikely to be the reason.
First, it’s a dubious epidemiological computer model concept not based upon medical evidence but more on the desire of the vaccine industry to vaccinate all people rather than those at risk

Herd immunity is not remotely a computer model based concept. It dates back to the early C120th, and at root it’s just the common sense explanation of why diseases don’t wipe entire species out.

Although it came to be used in vaccination, it operates very differently in an infection scenario than a vaccination one, which is a core part of the argument made by Gomes and others recently for much lower herd immunity thresholds in epidemic situations than in vaccination campaigns.

144167 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Jay Berger, #494 of 2914 🔗

There are numerous issues raised with masks. If masks are an essential protection against coronavirus, why were they not made compulsory until late. Masks were not compulsory in shops until the 24th of July in England and the 21st of September in Wales. If they were so important at stopping coronavirus, why were they not made compulsory earlier. If not wearing a mask is a death wish, why has there not been a single documented case of non mask wearing customers or staff in shops falling I’ll? What is the point of wearing masks in shops where customers can easily stay a long distance away from each other or empty shops.

142377 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #495 of 2914 🔗

Neil Ferguson up on R4

142381 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #496 of 2914 🔗

claims ‘not to be an enthusiast for lockdown’!

142383 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #497 of 2914 🔗

but that we had to do it to ‘save the NHS’

142397 ▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to steve_w, 5, #498 of 2914 🔗

Starting to back down now, just little steps. We’re winning, the tide is turning! Long way to go I know but those little green shoots are doing my mental health a world of good.

142419 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Arnie, 2, #499 of 2914 🔗

We are. And as you say. Be ready for the rushing collapse when it comes. Long way yet.

142438 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Basics, 2, #500 of 2914 🔗

But how much of our economy (and sanity) will be left?

142444 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to IanE, 1, #501 of 2914 🔗

In a war damage is done. We have been attacked – damage has been done with more to come.

142407 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to steve_w, 2, #502 of 2914 🔗

If he really said that, using those words, it gives some measure of the man and his thought processes. It’s not a question of “enthusiasm” – there’s no room for sentimentalism here. He’s meant to be a scientist.

142561 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to steve_w, 1, #503 of 2914 🔗

It’sok for him, he just ignored the last one so’s he could screw another man’s wife.

142401 ▶▶ Will, replying to steve_w, 7, #504 of 2914 🔗

The only thing that c’nt should be on is a f’cking gibbet.

142423 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, #505 of 2914 🔗

estimated in february 0.6 % IFR in China and 0.9% in uk (older population)

142437 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #506 of 2914 🔗

report 9 said 510,000 deaths ‘if we do nothing’ +/- 50,000 plus additional deaths from overwhelmed NHS

142439 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #507 of 2914 🔗

30-50% asymptomatics and was accounted for in the model

142442 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #508 of 2914 🔗

asymptomatics don’t really transmit

probably high degree of immunity ‘for a few months’

142445 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, #509 of 2914 🔗

he stands by the 510,000 and thins it could have been higher ‘if we hadnt done anything’

142465 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to steve_w, 3, #510 of 2914 🔗

It wouldn’t have been 510,000 if every sick person had been put in a room and every well person ordered to snog them passionately.

142379 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 13, #511 of 2914 🔗

Someone on talkRadio this morning drew an interesting parallel between yesterday’s pantomime and Blair’s infamous “45 minutes away from WMD attack” statement. Could it eventually (assuming sanity prevails) be Boris’ downfall moment?

142398 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to zacaway, 1, #512 of 2914 🔗

Interesting timing too, given that some Italian officials confused Boris and Blair in the ‘airport incident’!

142502 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #513 of 2914 🔗

Ha, missed that, they certainly have a lot of similarities

143151 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to zacaway, #514 of 2914 🔗

If you notice he was careful not to be in the same room.

142385 D B, replying to D B, 13, #515 of 2914 🔗

Surely we have lost now… back into lockdown we go and if they can do this with the mountain of evidence that has been built up since the last one, as Sweden ups their limit on gatherings to 500 people, Italy brings back sports fans and we have to go to bed by 10pm and not see anyone from another house…. What is ever going to stop them again. Boris, what have you done 🙁

142400 ▶▶ Julian, replying to D B, 14, #516 of 2914 🔗

Well, maybe they are starting to overreach. More and more voices are openly sceptical now.

142426 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Julian, 8, #517 of 2914 🔗

THAT graph, will long be the subject of lecture and ridicule. I finally got my OH Father to look at the site yesterday after his outrage of the presentation.

142434 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to D B, 5, #518 of 2914 🔗

Bit like the wmd 45 minutes garbage.

142572 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Julian, 4, #519 of 2914 🔗

STARTING??????!!!!!!!!!!

What, 3 months of house arrest wasn’t overreach?
Forcing people to wear face masks without evidence of effectiveness or proper risk assessment wasn’t overreach?

FFS. Starting…

142664 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, #520 of 2914 🔗

STARTING to overreach???

142403 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to D B, 6, #521 of 2914 🔗

They’re going too far, and it’s waking more people up. I no longer feel that sceptiscm is considered ‘taboo’.

142429 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #522 of 2914 🔗

Hope so, I’m not giving up personally but feel as a team we’re taking a bit of a kicking despite our good performances

142453 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to D B, 4, #523 of 2914 🔗

We are, but just like Crystal Palace we’ll soon… err never mind.

But seriously, I really do think the tide is turning, slowly. The hardcore lockdown enthusiasts aren’t going to go away, but more people in the middle ground are openly questioning things now. The fear can’t be kept up forever.

Small anecdotal example. I was the lone sceptic on a work whatsapp group for months. Whenever I posted anything remotely sceptical, it would kill the conversation for at least a day. Very awkward. I gave up. Over the last few days, I’ve been receiving sceptical memes from people in that group. Small steps!

142512 ▶▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #524 of 2914 🔗

Ah the power of a meme! Being a Liverpool fan I should know that you will see better days after dark times so maybe I should hold out more hope!

143090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to D B, #525 of 2914 🔗

You’ll never walk alone.

143092 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #526 of 2914 🔗

Except in the UK, where I will be required to also wear a mask whilst embarking on this lone journey

143962 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to D B, #527 of 2914 🔗

You’re exempt , Daniel.

Thiago, eh ? 🙂

YNWA.

143957 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to D B, 1, #528 of 2914 🔗

Can’t see “Surely we have lost now” going down well in any dressing room in the world.

142411 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to D B, 2, #529 of 2914 🔗

Maybe this battle, not the war.

142418 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to D B, 5, #530 of 2914 🔗

The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

142430 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Strange Days, 1, #531 of 2914 🔗

Yes, but I have an idea that we are just seeing murky grey so far.

142565 ▶▶ stewart, replying to D B, #532 of 2914 🔗

Yep, showing those Europeans what freedom is all about.

142386 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #533 of 2914 🔗

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40052753.html

Christmas (in Ireland) will not be cancelled, but it will be different. FFS.

142447 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ewan Duffy, #534 of 2914 🔗

I see they’ve been doing some “modelling”. Lol

142911 ▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Ewan Duffy, #535 of 2914 🔗

From the official gov of Ireland Covid-19 data hub, there are currently 16 confirmed patients in ICU; 94 confirmed hospitalised. There have been less than 500 icu patients since March.
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

142391 NickR, replying to NickR, 7, #536 of 2914 🔗

It shouldn’t be lost on people that Whitty postulating 200 deaths per 50,000 cases rather shoots Neil Fergusson’s fox! The Imperial model projects 500 deaths per 50,000. Using this number his initial 480,000 shock horror number of deaths would have been 192,000.

142522 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to NickR, 1, #537 of 2914 🔗

8,000 less than the government’s own estimation in April of the deaths likely to result from lockdown.

Whitty is in real danger of becoming the David Kelly of Covid.

142560 ▶▶ stewart, replying to NickR, #538 of 2914 🔗

Fortunately for them, most people’s eyes glaze over the moment they start seeing numbers.

142392 Adam, replying to Adam, 6, #539 of 2914 🔗

Dreading the dumb-fuckery they have in store for us today.

142408 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Adam, 1, #540 of 2914 🔗

That’s what they want. Your dread.

142623 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Basics, #541 of 2914 🔗

They won’t get my compliance though.

142405 Paul Cuddon, replying to Paul Cuddon, 11, #542 of 2914 🔗

Clear idiocy from Vallance and Whitty who will be judged (badly) against the 50,000/day Imperial pseudo science. However, I do wonder if this is the set-up for them to declare victory over the second “wave” in three weeks time in an attempt to save face/careers/christmas. Anyone who can work from home probably still is, and pubs closing at 10pm is tokenism. They want to take credit for stopping the second wave that never was.

142420 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Paul Cuddon, 3, #543 of 2914 🔗

There has been a rift between the two of them in my view since April/May. Vallance looked as though he was there under duress. Whitty – who lives alone I think – might be having a nervous breakdown (something was going on with his right hand and he was shaking as Skipper pointed out yesterday)?

142485 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #544 of 2914 🔗

I’m hoping he was suffering a severe case of guilty conscience.

143001 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Charlie Blue, #545 of 2914 🔗

Why not just have the courage to resign then ffs!

142492 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #546 of 2914 🔗

Probably wondering if he can get away with the excuse that he was only following orders if/when the reckoning comes.

142424 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Paul Cuddon, 3, #547 of 2914 🔗

Politicians are massive egos obsessed with legacy. Just as Blair and Campbell will never admit being wrong on Iraq, Hancock, Johnson etc will be claiming that they saved us from extinction.

142435 ▶▶ Will, replying to Paul Cuddon, 2, #548 of 2914 🔗

Which has been the intention since they realised they shat the bed clearing the decks into care homes.

142459 ▶▶▶ Paul Cuddon, replying to Will, #549 of 2914 🔗

…and shutting down hospitals for non-covid patients

142562 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Paul Cuddon, #550 of 2914 🔗

Don’t you think it’s strange that he would use an example value rather than a prediction. So even though he was just saying 50,000 as an example just to illustrate the point, now the whole MSM and Sheeple are taking the 50,000 value as gospel. There is no reason why he couldn’t of used the example value of 5,000 but that would’ve only predicted up to 20 deaths a day, so better frighten people with the 50K value and 200 deaths per day.

142589 ▶▶▶ Paul Cuddon, replying to JohnB, 1, #551 of 2914 🔗

It’s still Ferguson behind the scenes scaring the sh!t of of these incompetent idiots who have no idea what a false positive means, or what T-Cells/mucosal IgA do.

142604 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Paul Cuddon, #552 of 2914 🔗

I hope to God you’re right. It’s true that I’m still working from home even though I’d rather not, just because the “covid secure” measures is have to adhere to in the office are s stupid.

142412 Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, 17, #553 of 2914 🔗

Given that the CDC was saying, back in March, that masks would actually SPREAD coronavirus, so not to wear them, then perhaps that was the idea of later telling us we must wear them. Infections were dropping, so they needed a way to get the figures back up again.

142417 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Miss Owl, #554 of 2914 🔗

I waht to say ridiculous to your comment but unfortunately you may well be right.

142422 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Miss Owl, 10, #555 of 2914 🔗

There was a conspiracy theory I read somewhere (can’t remember where sadly) that mandating mask wearing was to ensure that people’s immune system would be compromised and ensure that they catch any of the effects of prolonged muzzle wearing – colds, chest infections, dizzy spells, headaches, etc that could be dressed up as a second wave.

Looks like that’s what we’re seeing here.

142466 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #556 of 2914 🔗

Repeating my reply from below:

You are spot on. It was an ingenious and deliberately targeted move by the powers that shouldn’t be. These physical side effects are well understood. It was also known that there are not enough state agents to enforce the mandates, so instead the “I’m wearing mine to protect you” myth has been incessantly pushed – one of the most egregious pieces of junk science I have ever come across – to ensure that the people police themselves. This appeals to and encourages the worst aspects of human nature in order to generate further social antagonism.

As important are the psychological and ritual aspects of this as well. Wearing a mask day in and day out for months on end is breaking people down. Transforming them into slaves. Destroying their ego and self-respect, creating a blank slate to be filled with whatever the state decrees. This is especially the case for children, who are being groomed by their abusers to be the slave class of tomorrow.

142527 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, 3, #557 of 2914 🔗

Exactly. I cringe at those NHS posters that say “I wear a mask to protect you. Please wear yours to protect me.” Since when has the health service actively push such pseudoscience rubbish? We might as well go back to human sacrifices, using leeches and ritual dancing to cure people.

And your second paragraph is indeed spot on. Mandatory muzzling is a form of control and dehumanisation. I see it when I’m out and about – they’re demoralised and robbed of their humanity, retreating behind their mobile phones to numb the horrors of their lives and too scared to admit that they have been had.

142634 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #558 of 2914 🔗

“ritual dancing to cure people”

Isn’t that what all those Tik Tok dance routines were for /sarc

142639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ewan Duffy, #559 of 2914 🔗

You’re right. I bet it is!! 😉

142683 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #560 of 2914 🔗

They framed the adverts like that so the people would self police it.Cressida Dick actively encouraged that form of behaviour.
If a mask only protected yourself it would be an issue of personal liberty.The fact that maskless people are seen as a threat is one of the more insidious forms of the psychological attack on the populace.

142735 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #561 of 2914 🔗

Exactly. And its an open season for those masked to bully those who aren’t wearing them. I was at the receiving end of such bullying and the nasty Karen who attempted it retreated when I shouted at her to mind her own business.

Cressida Dick is a disgrace and another one who should be sent to the Tower for treason.

143966 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #562 of 2914 🔗

Do they not still use leeches ?

144414 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #563 of 2914 🔗

Perhaps they do for certain procedures.

142477 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #564 of 2914 🔗

So not a conspiracy theory?
Masks will certainly increase the probability of bacterial infections.
Dentists are warning of “mask mouth”, as per links above
Evidence indicated that a reduction in oxygen and increase in CO2 has an effect on the bodies overall balance / immune system.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29395560/

142532 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #565 of 2914 🔗

I’ve pointed that out to a few people and yet they still keep going on and on about droplets. When I point out that the vast majority of droplets are actually nanometres and that no mask can stop it , they still refuse to believe me.

It’s like trying to extract blood out of a stone.

142481 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #566 of 2914 🔗

German children’s charity test child’s mask after being worn in school
for 8 hours. 82 bacterial colonies and 4 mould (fungal) colonies.

https://twitter.com/mattlarby/status/1307441238799462406

142655 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #567 of 2914 🔗

The thing that scares me the most is that when you wearing a mask that you breath through your mouth and not your nose. Such behaviour will become ingrained and we will turn into a nation of mouth breathers. Mouth breathing is exceptionally bad for health and has many long term and short term repercussions:

Short term : increase in bacterial and fungal infections, increase in dry mouth, dental caries, gingivitis, reduced oxygen (negatively impacts a lot of energy creating processes in the body, i.e krebs cycle, cancer operates best in a low oxygen environment), stoking the fear message etc

Long term : Increase requirement for orthodontic treatment, very low oxygen levels in the body – chronic disease

Mouth Breathing
“Other causes of mouth breathing may also be the results of the mouth breathing itself, including:

  • Narrowed jaw bones
  • Crooked teeth
  • High palate
  • Long narrow face
  • Incompetent lip seal
  • Enlarged adenoids and/or tonsils”

https://thedentalsuites.com.au/your-concerns/mouth-breathing/

142749 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, #568 of 2914 🔗

Good point. Didn’t dentists abroad point this out when they have been seeing more and more people developing those symptoms you’ve described above due to mask wearing?

Of course not helped by our dentists still shut. Still can’t get an appointment for my check up.

142482 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Miss Owl, 5, #569 of 2914 🔗

It’s worked in Spain. Masks mandated everywhere – including outdoors – and the highest rate of positive tests in Europe.

142505 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Miss Owl, 3, #570 of 2914 🔗

The icing on the cake is convincing people it is law!! to wear a mask.

Speaking to elderly friends on Sunday, they have done a road trip up the west coast and then home via the east coast. Hugs and kisses all round proudly told us all crap and laughing at the absurdity of wearing a mask in the hotel and when not eating.

They admitted they do it even though they know it is crap but they think it is law!!! I worked with him for years and he questioned everything but not this as he has been convinced he will be breaking the law.

I didn’t have the energy to put him right but it was nice to hear their scepticism. They were utterly adamant they will be hosting their family of 8 people on Xmas day.

142629 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Miss Owl, 1, #571 of 2914 🔗

Yep.
If they really wanted to stop case numbers increasing, they would have to forbid masks for the general public, whether they can actually hold back virus particles or not, see my reasoning below.
The fact that they are not and are actively considering extending the mandate to wearing it outside and at work instead, inspite of or because of the clear detrimental evidence of France, Spain&co. reg. that, makes one wonder.
The most likely conspiracy theory for that would be that they now want to spread the virus, but without freaking out the Karens.
But I still think they simply don’t have a clue, can’t bring themselves to admit a mistake and U-turn and prefer to double down and follow the gobal herd instinct.
“It’s more acceptable to fail conventionally than to succeed
umconventionally.”

142427 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #572 of 2914 🔗

This is a story about bus drivers whinging about pupils not antisocial distancing on school buses:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54203100

These statements are laughable:

Government guidance for England says that, where possible, social distancing should be “maximised” between individuals or “bubbles” of children who stay together throughout the course of the day.

Other safety measures recommended include more frequent cleaning, maximising ventilation through opening windows and ceiling vents, and allocating seats to ensure children sit with their “bubble” if possible.

The people who come up with this “government guidance” must surely originate from another planet. Have they not seen how children naturally interact when not under state control, e.g. when going to, and leaving school?

142440 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tenchy, 6, #573 of 2914 🔗

Becaus the arseholes have never travelled on a bus, they are chauffeured everywhere

142468 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tenchy, 1, #574 of 2914 🔗

Local County Council said three weeks ago that social distancing was not required on school buses.

142608 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Tenchy, 1, #575 of 2914 🔗

Was very heartened to hear my younger say that most kids on the bus dont wear masks as they dont want to follow rules. Hooray – maybe there is a small chink of rebellion in them after all!

142428 Mr Bee, 6, #576 of 2914 🔗

Whitty & Vallance = Dumb & Dumber

142441 B Boru, 2, #577 of 2914 🔗

Morning all

We all gearedup and ready for the fight today?? I have been up since 6am sharpening all my garden tools!

Interesting document. ‘Mindpace – Influencing behaviour through public policy’

The Manual!

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/MINDSPACE.pdf

142443 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 5, #578 of 2914 🔗

All I can say is , Thank goodness or Tim Berners Lee for the internet. Imagine trying to fight back against thsi crap without being able to connect with like minded people.

142454 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Bumble, 7, #579 of 2914 🔗

Without the Internet there probably wouldn’t have been any lockdowns. How could you work from home, shop from home, study from home, “socialise” from home? Perhaps you should be cursing Berner-Lee.

142457 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sally, 1, #580 of 2914 🔗

Our posts crossed. Sorry.

142478 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sally, 1, #581 of 2914 🔗

I’m not sure. People are so compliant, even with bonkers rules and the BBC hysteria machine would be the only source of info.

142498 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Sally, #582 of 2914 🔗

As above. The internet has existed since the 1970’s – the Web simply made it available for us all to have fun with. You’d still have been able to work from home at least if the Web had never happened – in fact you’d have been even more locked in to the company you worked for.

142558 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sally, #583 of 2914 🔗

Yes that is a big part of it

142455 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bumble, 5, #584 of 2914 🔗

Although, I would also argue that without the internet and its facilitation of things like social media and zoom calls, nobody would have tolerated this situation for 6 weeks, much less 6 months.

142483 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 4, #585 of 2914 🔗

Ditto goes for 24/7 rolling TV brainwashing. This would not have happened by tuning in to a 6 pm and 10 pm news.

The lockdown requires 24/7 news and internet.

142542 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, #586 of 2914 🔗

The 24/7/365 news culture has caused a lot of damage.

For this we should curse Ted Turner and CNN. He has created a Frankenstein’s monster that we can’t control.

142488 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Bumble, #587 of 2914 🔗

I hate to be pedantic, but it was the World Wide Web that Tim Berners-Lee established the groundwork for, not the Internet. The two are different, although the first couldn’t exist without the second.

142737 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to redbirdpete, 1, #588 of 2914 🔗

NAH “The Internet” was designed by ARPA (Advanced Research Projects Agency (US DoD; now DARPA))
It was a military network to improve resilience against nuclear attacks where data could be routed around the telephone network in the even of a nuclear attack. Tim Berners-Lee inventing it all total bollocks.

142452 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #589 of 2914 🔗

Thanks again Toby for a great round up as well as a selection of excellent articles. Littlejohn and Delingpole do tell it as it is.

It’s amazing how the Two Ronnies are ramping up the apocalyptic pronouncements yet again. St John of Patmos has finally found worthy writers to continue the Book of Revelation.

However what they are doing is criminal – this is to ensure that the UK already on its knees economically and socially will to trampled on the ground further. They still don’t care about those who are suffering and have died of untreated illnesses, suicide, mental health issues. Plus what about unemployment and our children and young people.

The Two Ronnies deserve to be sent to the Tower alongside Johnson, Wancock, Ferguson and Ellwood for treason. Plus Vallance should be stripped of his knighthood and join hte ranks of Saville, Green and Fred the Shred.

142599 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #590 of 2914 🔗

On many subjects, Littlejohn can be irritating by ignoring facts to make a point. But he is way beyond brilliant today.

142462 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #591 of 2914 🔗

Doris, handcock, Cummings, whitty and valance have staged a coup!

142676 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stefarm, 4, #592 of 2914 🔗

We have definitely had a coup.Whether they staged it or are just the frontmen is another question

142467 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 1, #593 of 2914 🔗

Where is our Gina Miller ? someone to take the fight direct to this wretched Government, this time she or someone like her would win.

142473 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to zacaway, 2, #595 of 2914 🔗

Yes, but would a Govt lawyer be on “holiday” if she had come knocking.

142480 ▶▶▶▶ tonys, replying to nickbowes, 3, #596 of 2914 🔗

No, probably best not to invest too much optimism in the judiciary.

142496 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to tonys, 14, #597 of 2914 🔗

Invest optimism in Simon Dolan though, he has been equal to the greatest sceptic throughout.

142553 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to zacaway, 4, #598 of 2914 🔗

Yes, interestingly Simon Dolan was the only person that started challenging the Government on the legality of the lockdown. Notice the silence and no action from a all other business people, party political donors, human rights organisations, old age charities, other charities, think tanks etc.

The Government has tried every trick in the book to stop this challenge. The first case was thrown out by a judge that clearly supported the Government agenda.

The appeal was postponed because 1 out of 11 judges was on holiday. If you are ‘booked’ to be present at court, you cannot take holiday on the date of the court case
1. if your holiday was booked in advance and it clashes with the court date then you must excuse yourself well in advance, not the day before the court case commences.
2. if you book your holiday after you have been notified of the court date, that should be illegal and you should be thrown off the case)

Would be good to do a FOI request to establish the facts and who this lawyer is.

142563 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Victoria, 1, #599 of 2914 🔗

To be fair, Liberty are campaigning against the lockdown too, although not very effectively / visibly:

https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/issue/the-government-has-launched-an-assault-on-our-rights/

142602 ▶▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Victoria, 2, #600 of 2914 🔗

There is another challenge. Not so well funded. https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-coronavirus-act-2020/

142554 ▶▶ Will, replying to nickbowes, 2, #601 of 2914 🔗

Dolan doing his best but, unlike with Miller, the judiciary are on the government’s side this time.

142490 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 39, #602 of 2914 🔗

Can I also just say a big ‘oh fuck off’ to any NHS (or private, tbf) workers still giving it the ‘I’m so broken and exhausted, I cant believe people arent taking this seriously’ bullshit. We know its simply not true, you’ve had months of barely any patients now so quit whinging. And when the increase in patients comes as autumn and winter roll around, as it does every year, cry me a river whining about people going out and ‘not distancing’ etc – what did you expect when you took a job in healthcare? To do no actual work? To have nice easy 8 hour shifts where you sat around doing nothing? Piss off.

It’d be like me having a go at clients who give me work to do, ffs guys, dont you know I had another project only 2 days ago and now you’re giving me another one, I’m so tired! wah wah wah.

Going back into lockdown, which is what is happening whether Bojo markets it as one or not, has broken me. Whats the fucking point now honestly, they couldnt care less, they lie with impunity, the media parrot their lies rubbing their hands at the clicks and terror and then millions of idiots virtue signal & screech to those of us with enough going in our heads to see through all the bollocks.

142508 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark II, 4, #603 of 2914 🔗

Fair.

142521 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mark II, 5, #604 of 2914 🔗

I’ve had to visit the hospital three times in the last 6 months and they are unrecognisable. They are completely empty. Wastelands with nothing happening.

142531 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Mark II, 3, #605 of 2914 🔗

I couldn’t agree more. The NHS are up to their necks in this, and have been transformed into a political and social engineering institution. Healthcare is secondary.

142586 ▶▶ ema, replying to Mark II, 7, #606 of 2914 🔗

I agree, entirely, and empathise also. The last week has broken me. 6 months ago life for me, my partner and our two young children was brilliant…full of excitement, ambition and gratitude for all that our love and freedoms could prosper. My mental health is really suffering now. 6 months ago I was an elite marathon runner; dedicated, driven, determined; and studying to be a PT so that I could set up my own business having been lucky enough to be a stay at home mum for 6 years. Yesterday I dropped my 4 and 6 year olds off at school, got back in bed and cried for most of the 6 hours until I went to pick them up. Mostly through a combination of anger, fear and frustration. I have tried to retain some hope through all of this and have fought back against the ridiculous “new normal” narrative…I became sceptical way back in April and been convinced that common sense, logic, compassion and true science would in the end prevail…but it is clear, after yesterday’s farce, that I must now accept this “new normal” nonsense, as fighting against it is too detrimental to my mental health. My children will soon start to suffer (more) if their, once lively, positive, happy, successful, mummy deteriorates any more.

142731 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to ema, 1, #607 of 2914 🔗

Oh ema, I know how hard it is, I really feel for people with young children as well. It is like living through some horror film and hoping it will come to an end soon. My problem is knowing how to channel my anger although depression is also creeping in. Please try and see the joy in the things they can’t take from us, although I know as much as I give this advice, I’m not good at always following it myself. Take care of yourself and sending you a virtual hug!.

143994 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ema, 3, #608 of 2914 🔗

Take a break ema. No tv, interweb, or newspapers for several days.
Nobody can oppose this bollocks 100% of the time, R&R is not a luxury, it’s essential.
(Marathons, forsooth. Still, there’s hope for everyone. 🙂 ).

142491 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 13, #609 of 2914 🔗

The fact that the government haven’t the slightest idea how most people live has never been more apparent. Lincolnshire is, like many other counties, predominantly rural consisting of market towns and villages with one or two larger centres of population and industry. We have not been too badly affected throughout this period and there is no evidence that cases are increasing in anyway to alarm. On 18th September there was no change in the death statistics but I forget what the figure was.

In Newark a few weeks ago as there was a sudden outbreak at a local factory which caused mild panic in government and the media but it simply fizzled out.

I’m sure this situation is true of similar areas throughout the country.

And pubs? Who do they think drinks in country pubs after 10pm! Locals who don’t have to drive ( and the odd person who doesn’t care but knows the quiet way home). I often don’t go out until then! Why is the hour between 10 and 11 more risky than the hour between 9 and 10?

Why then is the entire country being subjected to ever more restrictions on our freedoms and way of life. It is so hard to believe this is all actually happening and seemingly intelligent people think it’s ok! What are human rights about if not this!

The one advantage of living in the countryside however is that so far checks to see if we’re all behaving ourselves seem fairly rare.

142520 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Suitejb, 4, #610 of 2914 🔗

Totally agree, I live in the 3rd smallest town in Shropshire (Cleobury Mortimer), I must admit that the other day I walked through a field of cattle without a mask but then I noticed that they( the cattle) weren’t socially distancing.
I expect the police will visit them soon.

142557 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #611 of 2914 🔗

The cows understand better then most the dangers of following Ferguson models.

142663 ▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #612 of 2914 🔗

They were dropping Ferguson models behind them, ahem,…

142575 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Suitejb, 5, #613 of 2914 🔗

Indeed. Never yet seen a policeman on foot on Dartmoor. Pubs round here still have lock ins and as for T&T – forget it! Rural life will not change because we who live in the deep countryside will not change. Up yours Gove!

142494 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 10, #614 of 2914 🔗

This is from The Telegraph live feed:

It is thought other restrictions could include an extension to the locations in which face masks must be worn …

FFS! Where else can they be worn, apart from everywhere outside!

142499 ▶▶ D B, replying to Tenchy, 10, #615 of 2914 🔗

I will continue to not be wearing mine

142651 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to D B, 1, #616 of 2914 🔗

Ditto.

142503 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 2, #617 of 2914 🔗

All public spaces.

The clue is in telling people to breath away from each other as they pass.

142506 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Tenchy, 7, #618 of 2914 🔗

Unsurprising if that’s the case unfortunately Tenchy, I am fully expecting them to continue the face mask farce, well it’s worked so well in those 2 countries we are focussed entirely on now so why not copy them on face masks too.

These are not evidence based decisions, they’re just incoherent garbage and things they can easily fine us for if the police state enforces decide to. Whereas fixing their testing fuck up and figuring out how to protect the elderly and vulnerable would require actual work and effort.

142514 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tenchy, 7, #619 of 2914 🔗

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1308159034013474817

Instead of household lockdowns, expect more rules on masks instead. The Covid Operations committee meeting late tonight, but several tightenings being looked at, eg compulsory in taxi cabs and possibly while moving around offices. Plus wider general enforcement.

Not a token gesture any more. This is specifically targeted psychological warfare. “It’s just a mask” could not be further from the truth. This is one of the key weapons in the assault on our humanity, and it has been right from the start. And they were always going to end up being mandatory everywhere, at all times

If you are confronted or questioned by anyone who is a zealot, or is simply going along to get along, I find that this short phrase generally garners a reaction:

You will be wearing a mask everywhere in public for the rest of your miserable life.

142533 ▶▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Richard O, 3, #620 of 2914 🔗

They keep doubling down don’t they. Like the gambler convinced the next roll of the dice will win. Instead of mask exempt lanyards how about a yellow star with “I am exempt”. At least then the general public could easily identify us.

142537 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Roadrash, 1, #621 of 2914 🔗

Comment reminded me of the great Kenny Rogers song – The Gambler

142547 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Roadrash, 1, #622 of 2914 🔗

Well in practical terms this reduces the distance I will walk from my block of flats from an eighth of a mile to 20 yards. Simply standing outside to smoke a cigarette will be criminalised, and subject to a fixed penalty notice.

“It’s just a mask”. Whatever, zombies. Just queue up for your vaccine already.

142657 ▶▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Richard O, #623 of 2914 🔗

Poke a hole in your mask for your fag. Simples! It’s their rules…

142716 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Richard O, 1, #624 of 2914 🔗

Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars.

Others including yourself have said it….WE ARE IN WW3 AND WE, HUMANITY, IS UNDER ATTACK.

It is absolutely no coincidence that they are ramping up this bullshit again.

If anyone is in any doubt this is not pre-meditated and a coldly calculated agenda you haven’t been paying attention.

Oh how I remember all the laughing and sneering comments 6 months ago when I tried to warn those around me that I care about!

I feel FUCKING RAGE today!

It is way past time for an armed by any means uprising!

Hitchens and Clark don’t go far enough!

142534 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, 2, #625 of 2914 🔗

It take it they will say in the workplace, outdoor public places where there are large numbers of people around, and probably everything else that stops short of your home.

142538 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tenchy, 5, #626 of 2914 🔗

They know they’re on shaky ground and the public are becoming increasingly sceptical. This smacks of desperation.

142548 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #627 of 2914 🔗

You’re right.

142732 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #628 of 2914 🔗

That may be so but the majority, even sceptics and full blown see through the whole agenda folks are sitting hypnotised like a rabbit caught in a Hunter’s lamplight!

This Saturday…Trafalgar Square…Be organised and prepared for a street standoff and possible battle with the scum polis.

Stand your ground, stand firm and if it comes to it, FIGHT BACK.

You can easily carry any number of household items or tools or whatever legally which could easily do as a makeshift weapon.

I am normally not one to promote the use of violence but this is beyond political, they have declared WAR ON HUMANITY!

142556 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tenchy, 1, #629 of 2914 🔗

While you are watching BBC news on Tell you Vision.

142500 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 13, #630 of 2914 🔗

I notice that there is talk of face nappies to be made mandatory in public places in London.
Confession time :I’ve panic bought 3 mask exemption badges,” Reason:I have a severe anti BS allergy.

142509 ▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #631 of 2914 🔗

They will make face nappies mandatory outside the front door next.

142541 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to nickbowes, 2, #632 of 2914 🔗

From today if Khan gets his way.

142545 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to nickbowes, 5, #633 of 2914 🔗

Mandatory in the bedroom. That will please some though. My wife wanted me to be Batman last night, flying into the room and whisking her away to 77th heaven!

142552 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to nickbowes, 2, #634 of 2914 🔗

Inside the front door if they can get away with it

142510 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #635 of 2914 🔗

Saw the headline that the fearless Sadiq Khan who admitted he could not work during lockdown due to some type of fear has now decided to look as if he knows what he is doing and want to implement masks everywhere in London. I wonder what type of ‘science’ he is following. He succeeded in trashing the London Underground, the London economy, waging war on all protestors EXCLUDING BLM, etc

142513 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Victoria, 9, #636 of 2914 🔗

Hmm, face coverings, no booze, no fun sounds like a religion……

142675 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Fingerache Philip., #637 of 2914 🔗

What does public places mean? Isn’t everywhere public outside your own front door/garden?

142504 Gman, replying to Gman, 5, #638 of 2914 🔗

Now that some Journalists are actually starting to do their jobs and are putting questions to the government about the false positive issue, what do you think is the next most important question to be asked?

My question is that given the level of false positives, the ever growing chance of picking up an old infection and the increase in numbers of people using the NHS (as elective surgeries have resumed, more people are using A&E as schools are back / flu season is here and most people are less afraid of going to hospital if required.)

Is there any analysis being done to check that covid cases in hospital actually have symptoms of covid rather than just testing positive as they turn up for other ailments?

142517 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Gman, 3, #639 of 2914 🔗

I think we can be 100% certain that there are no such checks being done and there’s no data to show how many of the alleged covid patients actually have symptoms, no.

142525 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Gman, #640 of 2914 🔗

The symptoms are wide and vague and there is little falsifiability. People who test negative in a test and then attributed on symptoms but those symptoms are not unique.

Just think about someonte making your water safe to drink and apply these principles.

142585 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Gman, 2, #641 of 2914 🔗

The first question is “Given that the real-world evidence for covid being an exceptional disease is very weak, how can exceptional measures that are clearly damaging to life and health be justified”. In many ways, that’s the only question.

142588 ▶▶ JPF, replying to Gman, 5, #642 of 2914 🔗

Why is Sweden back to normal, after not even having a lockdown?

143275 ▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to JPF, 1, #643 of 2914 🔗

An excellent question and one I don’t seem to see being answered.

142511 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 10, #644 of 2914 🔗

Anybody here old enough to remember hippies, Woodstock and the summer of Love? Then you’ll also remember Hong Kong flu that was prevalent during the summers of 68 and 69 and was a bigger killer than C19 (it’s estimated that 1 to 4 million died when the world population was half it is today). No! Then that at least 2 of us.

142540 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #645 of 2914 🔗

Remember it well.

142619 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #646 of 2914 🔗

I’m not old enough, but I’ve asked my parents who would have both been 21. They don’t remember a thing.

142647 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to leggy, 2, #647 of 2914 🔗

That probably means they were there then! Great stuff… 😉

142515 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 6, #648 of 2914 🔗

This is a pie chart of Death that me and Mrs2-6 did WAY BACK IN MARCH to send out to people. It was an exercise in futility but it was a great pie chart….

142523 ▶▶ D B, replying to Two-Six, 1, #649 of 2914 🔗

Haha, invite me to the next dinner party!

142543 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to D B, 1, #650 of 2914 🔗

Dinner parties will be banned.

142546 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to William Hand, 3, #651 of 2914 🔗

We can have them in secret, the French resistance if you will take the WW2 reference

142571 ▶▶▶▶▶ ChrisW, replying to D B, 3, #652 of 2914 🔗

Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only once…

142644 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to ChrisW, #653 of 2914 🔗

Oh no a covid marshal speaks…

142607 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to William Hand, 3, #654 of 2914 🔗

I am going to a dinner next week. There will be 5 guests visiting a couple.
To keep it legal, one of the couple is going to sit in the next room and not come out. What is the flipping point of that? I laughed when I was told that, but it seems no one else found it funny.

Great chart!

142669 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to James007, 2, #655 of 2914 🔗

It’s frightening that people actually take this seriously.No wonder we are in this mess

142528 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #656 of 2914 🔗

Daily Telegraph three weeks ago ran the headline Go Back To Work Or Risk Losing Your Job.

Gove today: emphasis now is to have people where they can work from home.

142584 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 2, #657 of 2914 🔗

Fine. So people can sweep the streets, cook the school dinner and wipe old peoples arses, all from the comfort of their middle class mansions?

142529 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 2, #658 of 2914 🔗

Can anyone else recall the notorious 70`s Millwall hooligan element that went around the country in surgical masks , think they were called “F Troop Treatment”. Possibly Prof Witless heralds from that part of Sarf London. Panorama did a documentary about it at the time, on youtube.

142551 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to nickbowes, 2, #659 of 2914 🔗

Yes, I’m Millwall, bit before my time but my dad remembers them

144245 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, #660 of 2914 🔗

No one likes you !

142566 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to nickbowes, #661 of 2914 🔗

I think a few Millwall bricks raining down on parliament are needed

142591 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to stefarm, #662 of 2914 🔗

Proper club is Millwall. They should pay a visit to Imperial College London and ask for a “face to face” with Witless.

142606 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to nickbowes, 1, #663 of 2914 🔗

Correct, I’m sure the rule of 6 is being ignored in bermondsey (hopefully)

142535 Nigel Sherratt, 1, #664 of 2914 🔗

Let’s hope Caesar has some jam for ‘is tea before giving us the thumbs up or down or down or up …

142549 wantok87, replying to wantok87, 20, #665 of 2914 🔗

The letter by Sunetra Gupta et al. echoes the concern of many clinicians, that the Government is listening to a group of individuals without understanding the data; which has been error strewn from the onset. If you have no accurate data set to indicate who is, or has been, infected with COVID19, then all projections are guesswork.
Any rational view of the published data does not support the Doomsday predictions of Chris Whitty and Sir Patrick Vallance furthey they failed to analyse the effects of previous measures.
What has happened to the Mask Mania? Mask were a paramount part of the solution we were told by the Govenments in the UK.
What is the evidence? Spain introduced mandatory mask wearing 20th May but yet,as in the UK, since implementation cases of COVID-19 are dramatically increased. Rationally the interpretation is that masks don’t work, which as a surgeon, is no surprise as we have known this for decades, which is why we don’t use them in highly infective cases but use respirators or exclusion hoods. Masks in the hands of the general public are a potential biohazard.
Fundamentally, Covid19 is a medical and not a mathematical problem and for Matt Hancock to consider that he has the knowledge and experience to determine which scientist to listen to, is alarming. It is the equivalent of me, as a surgeon, when faced with a dilemma as if to operate or not on a difficult patient ,ringing up the hospital manger and asking him/her to make the decision.
Public Heath Doctors or Epidemiologists such as Neil Ferguson are not practicing doctors and have demonstrated previously their ineptitude in predictions, be it BSE or H5N1 etc, and should be held accountable for the cost to the nation of their previous errors and not given pre-eminence in determining policy.

142567 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to wantok87, 2, #666 of 2914 🔗

Thanks for your comment. If only more doctors had spoken out, this madness could have been stopped months ago.

142617 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to PaulH, 1, #667 of 2914 🔗

Let’s find 10.000 now.
That would match the Belgians courage at least.

142730 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, #668 of 2914 🔗

I agree with that, new Mark.

142958 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to wantok87, #669 of 2914 🔗

I think they have sold out to Bill Gates, so are unable/unwilling to take on board any other scientific opinions. They (and likely their mates) stand to make millions from unlicensed vaccines, also according to Dido Harding we will have to pay for our own daily tests if we want to be able to work etc..More money for the already well-off..

The government will not want to let down their friends to whom huge financial rewards have been pretty much promised..

143027 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 1, #670 of 2914 🔗

If they trash the economy, they’ll have let their friends down, because they won’t be able to afford these vaccines. Can we start thinking strategically instead of joining imaginary dots together? 2+2=17,550 in some heads.

142555 Ross Hendry, replying to Ross Hendry, 9, #671 of 2914 🔗

Never in the field of human f**k- ups was so much f**ked-up for so many by so few.

The two Ronnies faces and body language indicate that they know we’re on to them but at this stage they see no other option but to brazen it all out otherwise they would have to admit they were wrong from the word go. Heaven forbid. If I were them I’d be looking right now at how life could be made miserable for the real culprit behind all this, the serial catastrophist and numpty Ferguson.

In the meantime it’s going to be alarming but vaguely entertaining to watch these clowns try to keep up their desperate act.

142569 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ross Hendry, 4, #672 of 2914 🔗

Perhaps, except they have at least 30 million fanatical supporters who will do everything they are told without question, and make all our lives a misery every day.

142579 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ross Hendry, 8, #673 of 2914 🔗

There are many “real culprits” but the PM has to be top of the list. That’s what you sign up for when you apply for the top job. The rest of the cabinet come soon after, then MPs who passed these laws, then advisors and the media. Then the public who went along with it. I think that’s the rough running order.

142666 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 3, #674 of 2914 🔗

Agree.Buck stops with Johnson.He is in charge.

142718 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #675 of 2914 🔗

Yes, the PM has leadership responsibility, which cannot be evaded or excused. He must go. The Cabinet share that and have collective responsibility and should have resigned rather than gone along with the panic. They must go. They are the ones, along with senior opposition leaders, media and healthcare “expert” figures whose actions must never be forgiven or forgotten.

MPs less so, no immediate need for or benefit from a new election imo, especially as there was no effective political opposition to the catastrophic error, so nobody within the political establishment who can claim to have been right. Elections now would just reelect them or replace them with others of the same ilk

In the longer run, we need somehow to change or replace our political, social, media etc elites wholesale. They are collectively unfit for purpose, which suggests something fundamental in our basic culture is dysfunctional (I suspect it was broken in the wars of the early C20th and the collapse of empire, and we are only now seeing the consequences bearing their final fruit). Not sure how to go about that, tbh. New parties, for sure, but it’s deeper than that.

143010 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #676 of 2914 🔗

I’d rank the MSM with the cabinet in culpability, given how in March the MSM were the ones driving government policy.

142595 ▶▶ James007, replying to Ross Hendry, 3, #677 of 2914 🔗

Yes. I was struck by the “this is not a prediction” line.

Some people critique the strategy. It’s not the absence of a sensible strategy that is the problem, it is the absence of any sensible objective. What are we trying to achieve? An end to new viral infections? Is government policy is being driven by a utopian vision, rather than any kind of realistic plan?

I hope I am right in thinking that this will become a national scandal the likes of which we have never seen. Covid worriers will in a few years time, start asking the questions that are not being asked.

142609 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to James007, 3, #678 of 2914 🔗

BBC claimed it was a prediction 5 minutes after it was announced

142725 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to steve_w, #679 of 2914 🔗

I’m sure the regime and its healthcare mouthpieces were shocked, shocked , that such reports would be scurrilously spread around…

142784 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Ross Hendry, 1, #680 of 2914 🔗

I thought they were the two who in June were saying they were advisers and didn’t do politics. They were shamelessly politicking in their presentation.

143003 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ross Hendry, #681 of 2914 🔗

I suspect they’ve been told to toe the narrative or never work again. The politicians themselves can be this brazen, but it usually comes from somebody behind the scenes. Just removed far enough from the political frontline for “plausible deniability”.

144257 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, #682 of 2914 🔗

I suspect they’ve been told to toe the narrative or never work walk again.

142564 Basics, 2, #683 of 2914 🔗

CDC claims to have published improperly vetted text which it has now withdrawn.

“CDC removes guidance saying coronavirus spreads through air”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-removes-guidance-saying-coronavirus-spreads-through-air

“The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention withdrew guidance “posted in error” warning that the novel coronavirus could be spread through the air.

“A draft version of proposed changes to these recommendations was posted in error to the agency’s official website,” the CDC said in its updated guidance Monday. “CDC is currently updating its recommendations regarding airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19).”

“The guidance no longer says COVID-19 can be spread through the air, and the agency said it will update the language once its review process “has been completed.”

Outside health experts have argued that aerosolized particles should not be ruled out as a significant driver of transmission. “

142781 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 2, #685 of 2914 🔗

Yes – we have now got to the point where the official narrative is criminally misleading.

142576 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #686 of 2914 🔗

The government is trying to stretch this general state of panic and alarm by inflating case numbers and publishing misleading titles. They know what’s going on and they know that they got everything wrong, and are entirely to blame for tanking the economy. They need to continue doing this until a vaccine is made available. Even if the vaccine doesn’t work, they can release the restrictions and claim that deaths and cases are lower because of the vaccine, not because they have always been low and they just screwed up. It’s the only way out for them. They fabricated their way into destroying the economy, so they’ll fabricate their way out of it.

142616 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 9, #687 of 2914 🔗

But the daft thing is, if they stood up today and admitted their mistakes I and many others would be ok with that. It did look horrendous back in March. But to keep doubling down is moronic. I suppose it’s like a gambler who can’t cut their losses.

142622 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Bumble, 2, #688 of 2914 🔗

The government is all about appearances. If they admitted to their mistake, the current government would have to step down, and Labour would win in a landslide. Labour can just claim (and rightfully so) that the Tories destroyed the economy. Of course, no one will even bother wondering if Labour would have done a better job. Probably not.
Nothing they ever do is for the benefit of the people. They’re not about to start taking responsibility for the good of the country.

142649 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #689 of 2914 🔗

Elections aren’t due for 3 years+.
Most people know that Starmer&Moran would have been even more zealous.
Sunak&Brady would still win in a landslide.
Possibly even Johnson, likely even Gove.

142656 ▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #690 of 2914 🔗

However in theory the privy council could dissolve parliament.

142668 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to p02099003, 2, #691 of 2914 🔗

That is how to get rid of a PM who is clearly mentally unfit to govern. I think Lady Hale’s intervention was important. Also, Graham Brady giving an interview to Beff on Sky yesterday. David Mellor – former member of privy council – has also been quite vocal recently. Things are going on behind the scene?

142687 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to p02099003, #692 of 2914 🔗

No reason to dissolve Parliament if there is a leader who can command a majority.

142777 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #693 of 2914 🔗

Forget simplistic politics. Starmer has been manouevered in on the basis of providing no opposition to the wider establishment narrative. That much is obvious.

I’m not sure that Corbyn would have resisted, or has necessary leadership qualities, but – forget your individual political leanings – he was subjected to an intense campaign of propagandised falsity such as has never been seen before in my memory of political argy-bargy. This is – as with Covid – easily verifiable in factual terms.It was essentially because he would have come from outside the acceptable circle of the establishment narrative.

143369 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to RickH, 1, #694 of 2914 🔗

he was subjected to an intense campaign of propagandised falsity such as has never been seen before in my memory of political argy-bargy

Rick H, meet Donald Trump. Or, if you want something closer to home, meet Tommy Robinson.

143359 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Jay Berger, #695 of 2914 🔗

This would be an exceptional situation. If the government resigns, someone has to take their place. And even 3 years from now, do you really think no one would bring this up?

142638 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Bumble, 3, #696 of 2914 🔗

I agree. They could simply say that the benefit of 6 months of evidence has enabled them to see they made mistakes, despite having the best intentions and they are now able to take an approach based on evidence and not predictions (sorry these are not predictions – is fantasies the right word?) or modelling.

142763 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Bumble, 3, #697 of 2914 🔗

You’re right – in March there was a period where it did seem prudent to have a measured distancing/hygeine response beyond the norm. I was myself involved in making decisions about suspending group activity at that time – and was in favour.

But by late April, the propagandised nature of the information coming out was all to obvious – tragic cases, big numbers without context all indicated that this wasn’t balanced information, even given the poor quality of journalism that is the norm.

That’s when I decided to do my own analysis and track the actual ONS mortality data over a sufficient timescale to make sense and give a perspective.

The rest is history.

142953 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, #698 of 2914 🔗

The moment I started looking at data I knew they had exaggerated the problem. Same for many others I suspect, including those who continue to support suppression and intervention.

142946 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bumble, 3, #699 of 2914 🔗

I would have been ok with that had they done so back in April. Or May. Or, at a push, June. But the moment those bloody masks were mandated, they crossed the Rubicon. Nothing short of total removal will satisfy me now.

142580 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #700 of 2914 🔗

I think one of the most pressing questions is the clarification of the side effects of the Astra Oxford vaccine. If there is a serious doubt about the vaccine, this would certainly spread to all other vaccines. It is very difficult to see Western nations buying or relying on Russian and Chinese vaccines.

Therefore, any delay of introducing the vaccines is detrimental to the lockdown fanatics and zero covid fanatics. They are all relying on a rapidly introduced vaccine. It is interesting that Scott Gottlieb, former FDA director, one of the main persons behind Project fear, is now saying a vaccine is most likely second quarter 2021. There also rumours in the US that they are appalled by the UK regulator so quickly giving green light again for the Oxford trial.

Can anyone clarify if the two cases of transverse myelitis were in the C-19 vaccine arm or the Men B vaccine arm of the Oxford trial?

The first case in July seemed to be a female UK participant with transverse myelitis which they attributed to a primary manifestation of MS (which could be one of the presenting symptoms). That resulted in the first stop of the trial but that was not talked about at the time and rapidly resumed the trial.Was that becuse she was in the MenB arm of the trial?

The later second case, also a female UK participant was transverse myelitis, but according to reports quickly recovered and discharged. However, the second case led to a stop in the trial and much more publicity. Why? Was she in the C-19 vaccine arm or not? They must have concluded that she is not a MS case and most likely a resolving side-effect.

This raises  questioning. If both cases were in the non-C-19 vaccine it must give serious concerns about the Men B vaccine as they have no placebo in this trial. But could they be in the C-19 arm? Strange that this has not leaked out in the UK.

Some would say that the US, Modena vaccine, has an interest to talk down the Oxford vaccine but they must have serious doubts in general of the vaccine. Hence the new scepticism in the US of a fast vaccine (incl Bill Gates). They all now say is just another Trumpian brash statement of a fast vaccine for political reasons.

Any doubts and delay of vaccine will make it even harder for lockdowns and zero covid strategy as the house of cards will collapse as fast as the economy.

142600 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to swedenborg, 3, #701 of 2914 🔗

No one is going to clarify any side effect. Everyone was very quick to point that hydroxychloroquine causes visual impairment, even though that was a rare side effect that required high doses for a prolonged time. But no one even bothered to mention that remdesivir has a high chance of causing sepsis and organ failure.
If they were concerned about treating people, they would. But this has never been about treating people.

142833 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #702 of 2914 🔗

it is all about the money

142610 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to swedenborg, 1, #703 of 2914 🔗

I’ve forgotten her name but I read a thread from a regulator who showed how they can remove trends from adverse reaction data ie reclassify TM as undiagnosed MS or call it a general neurological condition. I think the trial is still on hold in the US isn’t it ?

142708 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Bumble, #704 of 2914 🔗

I have no direct knowledge of this vaccine trial, but an “adverse event”

can be any unfavorable and unintended sign (e.g., an abnormal laboratory finding), symptom, or disease temporarily associated with the use of a drug , without any judgment about causality or relationship to the drug

An adverse event, such as transverse myelitis, which is a symptom of various things, needs to be investigated to see whether it is in fact caused by the trial rather than being associated with it merely in time. This can work both ways. If the subject is run over by a bus leaving the hospital, that needs to be investigated in case the cause of the accident was some symptom such as disorientation, fainting, impaired vision or hearing, which might in turn have been caused by the trial.

142611 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, 1, #705 of 2914 🔗

Even without those two cases:
Neutropenia in 46% of the trial participants.
Crazy to continue, let alone take the shot. Let alone by anyone healthy below the age of 70.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv6tzWfDK-w

142832 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Jay Berger, #706 of 2914 🔗

Neutropenia is an abnormally low concentration of neutrophils in the blood. Neutrophils make up the majority of circulating white blood cells and serve as the primary defense against infections by destroying bacteria, bacterial fragments and immunoglobulin-bound viruses in the blood.

so get the vaccine so that it can reduce your body’s defence against invaders such as viruses. Ahh but Covid-19 is a virus – the opposite of what they try to achieve.

142654 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, 2, #707 of 2914 🔗

They were both from the cv vaccine, as far as I recall (CNN or Reuters report). One woman reacted after the first dose, and the other after the second dose. Last I read, both now attributed to Transverse Myelitis (there was a leaked AstraZeneca report posted online last week). Only 300 cases new of TM per annum in the UK, so doing the maths, and considering the joint probabilities, in my view the FDA are right to be suspicious. I listen to Scott Gottlieb quite often on CNBC – I think he is more measured than our lot (perhaps because he is an economist as well as a doctor?)

142746 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 2, #708 of 2914 🔗

The thing is that, current issues apart, no novel vaccine can be considered safe if released in 2021. The notion is scientific bollocks, since thorough RC Testing has to take much longer.

Thus the Project Fear – frighten people by massive exaggeration into lapping up a potentially unsafe product that, unseen, has cost millions, so that the government appears less stupid than it really is.

142947 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, #709 of 2914 🔗

Exactly – too little time for proper long-term trials. I think the powers that be are somewhat surprised that the public have not bought the fear-mongering and are not willing to accept a vaccination produced at warp speed, so they are having to double down and ramp up the fear for longer..

142940 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #710 of 2914 🔗

Moderna is in trouble; the fact that their biggest shareholders are dumping their stock says something…

142581 steve_w, 8, #711 of 2914 🔗

SKY News demolish Whitty and Valance graph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJqCr5QMsyI

142582 Basics, 17, #712 of 2914 🔗

Peter Hitchens

·
36m
The national mood *is* turning. People are starting to see through the exaggeration,the bluster, the refusal to consider the advice of any but a narrow group of experts. Help this change to accelerate. Write to your MP. Ask them why they’ve stopped doing the job they’re paid for

142587 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #713 of 2914 🔗

Since the Clown’s latest pronouncements are always leaked hours in advance – can we not bother with today’s address to the nation please?

142590 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #714 of 2914 🔗

Bluster bluster bluster MASKS EVERYWHERE BECAUSE SCIENCE bluster bluster bluster.

142598 ▶▶ nickbowes, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #715 of 2914 🔗

Everytime Jelly Johnson opens his fat gob the British economy loses 10%.

142592 Mark II, replying to Mark II, #716 of 2914 🔗

Does anyone know where you can get the data to show ‘cases’ by region, as per the handy chart Toby has posted above? Seems to be PHE case data by region by I cant find it via the power of internet search & people im sending it to are (fairly) demanding to see source…

142628 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark II, 1, #717 of 2914 🔗

There’s are “Cases by area” section and “cases by local area” sections here: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases from which you can download data

142692 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Julian, #718 of 2914 🔗

Thanks, tho for the life of me I can’t see how to get the raw data which would have made up the table in todays post… they have either hidden it very well or i’m being dumb. It also says ‘updated 21 at 4pm’ but their charts only go up to the 19th.

142593 Iansn, replying to Iansn, 8, #719 of 2914 🔗

Why didn’t Vallance and Whitty go another 4 weeks and claim 800,000 infections a day, which based on the calculations (or rather Ferguson’s) which would have the whole country infected by Christmas then the pandemic would be over. Infections have doubled over the past 4 weeks not one week.This was fear porn at its worst, no scrutiny nothing. Virus behaviour like this has never been observed in the general population.They need a full scientific panel (not just the SAGE group) to question the findings, so that the government can make the right decisions. Whitty and Vallance are now just repeating what they have been told to say by Hancock and Boris. Its pathetic. Grow some Boris and sort this out. Even the BBC on Newsnight was casting doubt over the figures.

142729 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Iansn, 1, #720 of 2914 🔗

The answer is clearly is that they wanted to get retaliation in first – before reality blew their narrative out of the water again.

142596 William Hand, replying to William Hand, 22, #721 of 2914 🔗

Work from home
Don’t work from home
Work from home
Eat out to help out
Don’t eat out after 10
Go on holiday
Don’t leave your area
Rule of 30
Rule of 6
Rule of 1
We are at war with Eurasia
We are at war with Eastasia
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is truth

142605 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to William Hand, 4, #722 of 2914 🔗

Yes these people always need an ‘enemy’ of some sorts to take away the freedom of the masses.

142754 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Darryl, #723 of 2914 🔗

The entire global system is dependant on perpetual war!

142597 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #724 of 2914 🔗

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/

Covid is over in Sweden. Testimony from an ER doctor in Stockholm – who says he hasn’t seen a Covid patient in over two months and they have shut down the Covid section in his hospital

142635 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to Basics, #725 of 2914 🔗

Uh yeah, this was linked to in the post you’re commenting on!

142601 theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 8, #726 of 2914 🔗

Just read in the Spectator (Sarah Whitebottom – ‘Bad Homes’) that Pillar 2 Satellite tests (mainly care homes) were picking up 1,100 new cases daily. This got me thinking and so I started looking at the weekly tests data – and from w/e 2nd Sept to w/e 9th Sept Pillar 2 Satellite tests increased from 257,385 to 343,523. A massive leap of 86,138 tests. Looking at the weekly surveillance report for week 37 (and examining two weeks to 13th Sept) the % positive tests in age group >85 rocketed from a stable level of 3% to 11%.for females and 2% to 9% for males. So, doing the math, we have 8% (average uplift) * 86,138 = 6,891 additional weekly cases just by more testing in care homes, or around 1000 new cases daily….so this is so close to the 1,100 figure quoted by Sarah as from internal NHS documents. Obviously very we can conclude that the additional cases are false positives picking up remnants of the dead virus where the virus was most prevalent (or hospital admissions would have sky rocketed) – in care homes. Hopefully someone might find this sort of data useful.

142603 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to theanalyst, 14, #727 of 2914 🔗

If the virus was running rampant in the over 80s, the death rate would be rocketing – based upon how it behaved previously.

It isn’t.

142615 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #728 of 2914 🔗

Is the official narrative not that it’s spreading rapidly in younger age groups and it’s only a matter of time before it spreads to older age groups and kills them all? Does this data not contradict that and it is in fact an increase in harmless or false ‘cases’ in older ages?

142620 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to dpj, 5, #729 of 2914 🔗

I dont think there is even an official narrative anymore. The narrative is just to spread confusion and panic by any means possible. If that means claiming it’s spreading in oldies, cool, the next day it could be that its the younguns fault. Keep us guessing.

142709 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 2, #730 of 2914 🔗

I reckon much the same : the objective is the narrative, not reality.

142679 ▶▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to dpj, 2, #731 of 2914 🔗

The 1,100 jump in these cases explains 70% to 80% of the overall increase in cases that happened from around 2nd Sept….so yes it is blowing the official narrative out of the water. What we have merely seen is a shift in the volume (increase) and mix (higher % of Pillar 2 surveillance) of testing. I await the figures on tests for w/e 16th Sept and that will hopefully explain more of the case increases.

142625 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #732 of 2914 🔗

Surely the latest piece of misinformation? People who are hospitalised for flu are likely to be old and frail or have co-morbidities in any event, so the fact that they may or may not also test positive for covid tells you absolutely nothing.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8756775/People-flu-Covid-19-trouble-infection-raises-risk-death.html

142701 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #733 of 2914 🔗

Of course. Again – the widespread presence of inactive viral fragments is quite possibly evidence of the debris of a largely vanished infection – not of an incipient epidemic.

142724 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 1, #734 of 2914 🔗

They are likely setting up the numbers for a rise in deaths. These will be normal flu deaths reported as covid. By the time the death certificate comes out, it will be too late to matter that they have manipulated the data – again.

142626 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 1, #735 of 2914 🔗

mmm

142728 ▶▶ D B, replying to steve_w, #736 of 2914 🔗

Can you give some more detail on this?

142630 RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #737 of 2914 🔗

One of the things I intermittently pick up in even sceptical commentaries is the extreme contagion of SARS-CoV-2. The narrative sort of says :

“Well – mortality’s not been too bad so far – but it is really contagious beyond the characteristics of most viruses.”

… and I think “Really? Evidence?”

Because, clearly if actually true, then that contagion has been heavily concentrated in asymptomatic and vanishingly mild cases – because simple observation indicates that there has not been an unusually massive upsurge in significant illness over six months – beyond the April spike that affected the long-living vulnerable who would have been affected by any virus running in the community. The all-cause mortality figures 2019-20 show a strong, but far from unprecedented, level – and when the two years are balanced out – the mortality is just at the average level.

Do tell me if I’m missing something.

142640 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to RickH, 6, #738 of 2914 🔗

You’re not. Despite carrying out, at fucking huge expense to us all, 22,171,979 tests to desperately hunt out this super contagious virus, we’ve only been able to confirm (with an extremely generous test) a mere 326,218 ‘cases’… pretty astonishingly low considering lots of these people getting tested were convinced they did have it.

So no, not the really contagious disease everyone’s wondering around in masks to avoid.

142658 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 2, #739 of 2914 🔗

Exactly my perception, Mark. Another piece of (to put it generously) hyperbolic narrative.

In fact – turn the testing narrative around, and you actually have reassurance : lots of evidence of non-infective RNA fragments that may relate to SARS-CoV-2, but have produced little actual illness, let alone death.

142673 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark II, 4, #740 of 2914 🔗

Keep asking the question – ‘how many people do you know who have been sick’ i.e. in bed with it (usual flu) not having a snotty nose and a sore throat.

I’m still struggling to fathom how an asymptomatic person can spread a virus.

142689 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 2, #741 of 2914 🔗

Yes – my partner and myself were just running our brains around the every-day misperceptions of which we are aware.

One comparator that crops up, thinking back over a run of years, is about the times when common rhino-viruses have been running rampant, and you can hardly meet anybody who hasn’t had the same sort of severe cough/cold/sore throat/respiratory infection. Now that is contagion as I know it.

142698 ▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, #742 of 2914 🔗

The one thing that I think speaks to this is the fact that the wave we saw in March & April, while accounting for roughly the same number of deaths that we might see in a standard ‘flu season, was steeper and shorter than the effect we would expect to see from ‘flu, compressing those deaths into a shorter time frame.

I can’t think of any explanation for this other than that it is either more infectious that influenza or more deadly, or both – or it was one or both of these things at the beginning of the outbreak. I’d be happy to hear one if it exists

142858 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to matt, #743 of 2914 🔗

Or it wasn’t due to a specific virus but due to adminstration

142632 Basics, 1, #744 of 2914 🔗

With Covid19 being widely known to have serious effects in those of 80 years one current SNP scandal is worthy of being added to LS comments. The Express writes:

“SNP shamed: Sturgeon told to act after ally says elderly deaths HELP Scottish independence

“NICOLA Sturgeon’s close ally Angus Robertson has sparked outrage after he suggested the deaths of elderly Scottish people was delivering a “gain” for Scottish independence.

“Mr Robertson, SNP’s former deputy leader and current MP, has been hit with furious criticism for his “disgraceful” comments after he said “55,000 predominantly No supporting older voters passing away every year”. He said this, combined with “55,000 predominantly Yes supporting 16-year-olds joining the electorate”, had produced a “gain of over 100,000 for independence” since the 2014 referendum.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1338222/SNP-Nicola-Sturgeon-angus-robertson-snp-elderly-deaths-snp-news-scottish-independence-indy

Sturgeon has refused to call an inquiry into Covid19 carehome Deaths. Half of Scottish Deaths mentiining Covid19 were in carehomes.

142637 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 10, #745 of 2914 🔗

Just had a dispiriting walk to the station. Many (far more than before) masked up just Walking about. Two old ladies chatting one in face visor, other masked. I caught the ending of the conversation as I walked past so can’t be sure, but one was advising the other ‘you know you can call the police, and they have to do something’ As I said, can’t be sure, but I can guess that a neighbour has been guilty of having a few friends or family around. Arrived at the station. Four people ‘on guard’ at the barrier masked or visored up. I knew what was coming so was ‘ready’. The ‘I’m exempt’ said with confidence did its usual trick and I got through. This is a massive change already. I have travelled through this station (Billericay) and others (Shenfield and Liverpool Street) entirely unmolested before. They are ramping up the fear and I think sadly they are succeeding at the moment. We have to fight back against this before it takes further hold.

142648 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Chris Hume, 5, #746 of 2914 🔗

sadly they are succeeding at the moment.”

Yes – unfortunately this is the disease from which people have little immunity.

Basically – national policy is being conducted at the level of those irritating telephone scams. Except in this case, they haven’t even bothered to change the narrative – people still fall for the Nigerian offering untold wealth if you send your bank details.

Goebbels had words for it – about repeating big lies.

142660 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #747 of 2914 🔗

Our enemies in this war are the people around us as much as the government. We need to be on high alert and looking over both shoulders at all times. Everywhere is enemy territory.

142706 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Richard O, 5, #748 of 2914 🔗

Sadly, yes. I have been gauging people around me since yesterday, in social groups and online, and the majority are giving it ‘why can’t people just follow the rules?’ I hate them all, and I feel so trapped as they are going to drag the rest of us down with them.

142650 steve_w, 11, #749 of 2914 🔗

Nick Triggle (BBC) being excellent again

——————
Analysis: Why all the doom and gloom?

First it was the scientists, now it’s the turn of ministers.
On Monday the government’s two most senior coronavirus advisers – Prof Chris Witty and Sir Patrick Vallance – set out the scale of the problem. Today ministers are coming forward with the solution.
The scientists’ warning was dire – the UK could see 50,000 cases by mid October – up from under 4,000 a day on average currently.
The government’s response? So far what we’ve heard on government policy for England is that pubs will have to close early and that you should work from home if you can (although more restrictions may be announced later).
There seems to be a disconnect between the two. Why?
Some experts have described the 50,000 figures as implausible. France and Spain – who are a few weeks ahead of us – are nowhere near that trajectory. What is more, the “rule of six” brought in last week has not had a chance to have an impact.
Many believe what we are seeing now is a natural drift upwards – society has reopened and it is the time of year when respiratory viruses circulate more.
So why all the doom and gloom? There are three ways of looking at it. Firstly, that we are truly on the brink of an explosion in cases (they after all are the experts and have access to all the data).
Secondly, that they are panicking and have turned to scaremongering to soften the public up for more restrictions. The other is that they are trying to influence behaviour so more Draconian restrictions are not needed.
Just how far the prime minister goes this afternoon will be telling.

142653 alw, replying to alw, 39, #750 of 2914 🔗

This!

142681 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to alw, 1, #751 of 2914 🔗

It’s mutated to only infect politicians and “journalists”?

142661 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 2, #752 of 2914 🔗

Another solid piece from Dr John Lee

The dangers of a Covid ‘elimination’ policy

https://app.spectator.co.uk/2020/09/22/the-dangers-of-a-covid-elimination-policy/content.html

142741 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to zacaway, 2, #753 of 2914 🔗

Excellent article. A couple of extracts:

[I]t’s clearly going to be easier to control people than to control coronavirus, and, with depressing predictability, that’s what governments around the world (with honourable exceptions such as Sweden) are setting about doing.

SARS-Cov-2 is a highly mutable RNA virus that spreads on the wind [I hope he doesn’t mean this literally].

142843 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tenchy, #754 of 2914 🔗

Yes, it really does seem this is simply just a great excuse to control people.

142863 ▶▶ RickH, replying to zacaway, #755 of 2914 🔗

John has produced another excellent piece. During the last six months that we have discussed the developing insanity, this has become so screamingly obvious :

“… we must learn to live with Covid. ‘Defeat’ of the virus is a false and dangerous ambition. The very large proportion of the population for whom Covid represents a small new risk should allowed to get on with their lives normally. The proportion for whom Covid represents a larger risk should be presented with the information, encouraged to make their own risk assessments, and helped to take avoidance action (if that is what they wish to do: some may prefer to keep seeing and hugging their family and regard Covid as one of the many viruses that human-to-human contact can bring).”

142662 Ian, replying to Ian, 1, #756 of 2914 🔗

BBC article (sorry, I know) claims (professor Semple – Liverpool) acrise in hospital cases women aged 20 to 40. Any data behind this?

142686 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ian, #757 of 2914 🔗

Hospital data tricky to obtain and use. I cannot help on this, are they talking about all cases or just Covid19 cases?

142691 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Ian, 1, #758 of 2914 🔗

Don’t know but guarantee when the data is properly looked at it will be no more than 5 people.

142693 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ian, 3, #759 of 2914 🔗

I think this was the doom monger I heard on Today, R4 this morning. He’s on a par with Ferguson, Edmonds, Laurel and Hardy and the others. In fact, he was one of the worst yet.

142702 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 1, #760 of 2914 🔗

Yes, I took exception to the waistcoat!

142695 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Ian, 1, #761 of 2914 🔗

A rise could mean anything. Hmm. Women aged 20-40 – pregnant women with a positive test result?

142700 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Charlie Blue, #762 of 2914 🔗

Yes, and/or women accompanying sick children?

142736 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #763 of 2914 🔗

People are going to hospital.
There is a virus about.
Therefore, people are going to hospital because of the virus.

That’s how logic works, it’s called infra-red reasoning, and I’m the best expert in my house, it is, it’s true! I can do a graph, if I can find my crayons…

142697 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ian, 4, #764 of 2914 🔗

Mothers with children who cannot get a doctor’s appointment – go straight to A&E? What constitutes an ‘admission’?

143528 ▶▶▶ Ian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #765 of 2914 🔗

All good points to argue. Thanks

142665 scepticalsue, replying to scepticalsue, 24, #766 of 2914 🔗

Anyone else really worried about this address to the nation tonight?
I fear for those working in the hospitality industry, I fear for those with mental health issues who are going to be isolated and prevented from seeing friends and family, I fear that things will never be truly normal again.
I’d say that Johnson, Hancock et Al need to go, but quite honestly, who else is there to support? The so-called opposition have supported this insanity from the off.
For the first time in my life I feel truly politically homeless.

142674 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to scepticalsue, 7, #767 of 2914 🔗

Government of, by and for the zealots. We are a profoundly sick nation in terminal decline. The very best we can hope for is to survive the collapse and rebuild from scratch. Any other outcomes do not involve us.

142685 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to scepticalsue, 6, #768 of 2914 🔗

You’re dead right—politically homeless is what all of us feel here I’m sure. The only government that would be worse than Johnson’s cabal would be one led by Starmer and I say this as an EX labour voter!
This may be a time of despair but surely it is also a time of opportunity. ‘Cometh the hour cometh the man’—-where are you…we’re waiting?

142707 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to scepticalsue, 4, #769 of 2914 🔗

Try to channel the fear into righteous anger. Don’t give in to emotional terrorism.

142723 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to scepticalsue, 7, #770 of 2914 🔗

We could try the Belgian’s approach – they survived over 500 days without a Government back in 2010. Get rid of them and leave us alone for a year to get on with life, before getting some new (hopefully saner) representatives to sort out whatever we might be bickering about by then.

142830 ▶▶ RickH, replying to scepticalsue, 3, #771 of 2914 🔗

Note Johnson’d propensity – as a weak individual – to surround himself with those who agree or won’t create waves.

A deadly trait in any leadership position dealing with complexity.

142837 ▶▶ RickH, replying to scepticalsue, 1, #772 of 2914 🔗

The question is – who comprises the real government?

142667 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 22, #773 of 2914 🔗

I have an engineering background so tend to approach problems looking for solutions. What I’ve found perplexing throughout all this is the desire for many experts in virus related fields to simply wish the problem away. A simple analogy would be the need to cross a river. An engineer would find a way to get across most likely by building a bridge. In our current reality it would be preferable to sit by the rivers edge and wait for the river to dry up or hope that somebody comes along and builds the bridge for us.

So often all I hear is there is only one solution and that is to get rid of the problem. If actual solutions are proposed the usual response is that it can’t be done, or what if somebody is negatively affected. I remember suggesting that if we’d somehow managed to protect care homes the death toll would have been halved and nobody would have thought twice about the numbers (being as they would be far lower than even a mild flu season). But no, that would be unfair to people in care homes. Better that everyone else loses their livelihoods and the economy is wrecked.

Or another reason (excuse?) is that it would be too difficult. Unless you can protect everyone you can’t do it at all. I see a similar argument when it comes to the idea of Herd Immunity. I see a lot of experts saying it would require too many deaths to achieve or that it’s not achievable. Again this is saying unless you can eradicate the virus with immunity then it shouldn’t even be considered, ergo immunity has no use at all. Is there no way to protect the majority of those that might die whilst everyone else builds up immunity? But still they come at it with the “it can’t be done” attitude. What about long COVID they will say. So if we managed to limit deaths and some people did actually get longer term ailments would that be justification to wreck economies and peoples livelihoods?

During the World Wars people gave up their lives so that others could enjoy the freedom of living their lives. We don’t even know how much of a problem long COVID even is but it’s almost certainly something that we can deal with. The question is, would people be willing to risk it (at least give them the choice) so that others could enjoy the freedom of living their lives?

142678 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #774 of 2914 🔗

Of course before we can offer up a solution we need to correctly identify the problem.

I view Covid as a sociopoltical event/process, not a epidemiological/virological one.

142826 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to calchas, #775 of 2914 🔗

Clearly – since the actual virus is pretty ordinary, whilst the response is extraordinary.

142722 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #776 of 2914 🔗

Long Covid = Yuppie Flu

It’s post viral fatigue and just the recovery period from a nasty illness – which may take several years.

142680 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 7, #777 of 2914 🔗

We have 6 months of real data. Does the observed data confirm the original hypothesis? If no then the hypothesis is wrong. (Richard Feynman)

142705 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to p02099003, 4, #778 of 2914 🔗

Ah but you see it’s because we made interventions that the hypothesis didn’t come true. As long as interventions are applied it’s a hypothesis that can never be true or untrue. As long as the government keep doing “things” we are caught in an eternal truth creating machine that we can never prove or disprove.

142714 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Achilles, 1, #779 of 2914 🔗

In addition. That’s why they can say things like 50,000 cases a day without being held to account. As it’s the precursor to a set of new interventions the figure is immediately null and void.

142726 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Achilles, #780 of 2914 🔗

While I have little sympathy with this particular presentation, it is worth noting that what was said that if the number of cases doubled every week then by mid-October it would be 50,000 a week (or whatever). That’s not a prediction, it’s a statement of arithmetic — it’s akin to saying if you have two apples and I give you two more then you will have four. It says nothing about whether you or I have that number of apples, or whether I’m going to give you any apples, or whether it would be a good or a bad thing for me have two fewer apples or for you to have two more.

142734 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #781 of 2914 🔗

The insidious thing is that they know full well that any nuance to that figure will be washed away as it gets processed by the media and comes out as a fact, and they don’t have to take responsibility for that.

142822 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Achilles, #782 of 2914 🔗

A good point. People on both sides of the argument are only too apt to strip out all the hypotheses and present conditional results as if they were established fact.

142748 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #783 of 2914 🔗

You are correct, but that information belongs in a maths lesson, not in a briefing supposedly telling the nation about the behaviour of this virus. I cannot think of any reason to include this other than to intentionally fear-monger.

142815 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Charlie Blue, #784 of 2914 🔗

… which is why I have little sympathy with the presentation.

142751 ▶▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #785 of 2914 🔗

That is almost meaningless as they stood up there, said that and left it implied that this is the likely outcome when it is actually one of the least likely outcomes. This was a statement meant to induce fear by being presented as a prediction.

142756 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Achilles, #786 of 2914 🔗

We can, because we can measure it against other countries, such as Sweden (light interventions) and Peru (harsh interventions). Unless you can prove any significant genetic difference between Britons, Swedes and Peruvians when it comes to viral susceptibility, any comparison with interventions and viral spread between these countries is probably valid.

142757 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #787 of 2914 🔗

I agree with you of course but these arguments just get dismissed as they are “not like us”.

142688 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 16, #788 of 2914 🔗

Sorry you fat jelly clown i work in an office with my colleagues. We are in the construction industry and as a private enterprise we are fighting for our lives to survive your disastrous agenda. If you want to pay me my salary in full for the next six months then fine, but that is really not the solution. You stupid fat twerp, furlough ends in Oct – what`s the plan then?

142710 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to nickbowes, 3, #789 of 2914 🔗

Sadly most people cowering indoors too detached from reality to see what is and has happened to this once great nation.

142711 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to nickbowes, 5, #790 of 2914 🔗

He doesn’t give a shit about you or anyone else. Suffering is irrelevant to the entire political and media class and their fanatical acolytes.

142738 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 3, #791 of 2914 🔗

And when people get hungry, there will be revolution. Hungry people are desperate people, and desperate people are dangerous people. And dangerous people will do absolutely anything to achieve their end.

142744 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Nick Rose, #792 of 2914 🔗

They have batons, shields, tasers and guns and are well drilled in dealing with pest control!

142786 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Nick Rose, #793 of 2914 🔗

I wouldn’t count on it—revolution that is. The Russians, French, Americans yup! but Brits? We tried it once and cut off the king’s head….. wasn’t long before we scurried back to being told what to do and doffing our caps.

142793 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, #794 of 2914 🔗

And besides…..most of the zombies will be too busy fannying about with their muzzles to think about anything that might actually be in their best interests.

142810 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #795 of 2914 🔗

The mask has become their identity. They are completely broken, soulless, empty shells. Ready to be filled up with their daily dose of state propaganda. The perfect slave class to serve their masters. To hell with every single one of them, they are the greatest criminals of all. Without their obsequious compliance this nightmare would not be happening.

142818 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Harry hopkins, #796 of 2914 🔗

The 17th C. is fascinating, in revealing the nature of power and the related slippage of character.

Read the Putney Debates, and you are in an era of real democratic political progress, and ferment of ideas. It still amazes me and is a massive corrective to simple ideas of progress.

.. then consider where Cromwell ended up, such that the restoration of the monarchy was no big deal.

It says a lot about power and corruption.

142713 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to nickbowes, 3, #797 of 2914 🔗

The furlough will be extended. The magic money forest will just print more. Debt has no meaning in today’s economics.

142733 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #798 of 2914 🔗

Until reality knocks at the door. No such thing as a free lunch and debt will trash the economy as surely as shutting it down again will.

142747 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #799 of 2914 🔗

You can’t produce food and electricity with printed money. Soon, the material reality basis (to borrow a phrase from Karl Marx) of the economy will manifest it self.

142762 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Londo Mollari, #800 of 2914 🔗

‘Printed money’ is a misnomer. Money is just computer numbers shuffled around from pillar to post. The government are set on abolishing ‘cash’. All part of the ‘great reset’ as some would have it.

142767 ▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Harry hopkins, #801 of 2914 🔗

I’m hearing this a lot now.

142835 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #802 of 2914 🔗

O debt, where is thy sting?

142703 DRW, replying to DRW, 3, #803 of 2914 🔗

The darkest hour is just before the dawn but it still feels like midnight. Will our sun ever rise again?

142715 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to DRW, 1, #804 of 2914 🔗

If things continue on their current trajectory, the Black Sun will be ruling these parts for a very long time. Sadly we still have a long way to go before we reach midnight.

142739 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Richard O, #805 of 2914 🔗

Yes, I fear it might even still be late evening, so many have been brainwashed into being nocturnal now.

142727 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, #806 of 2914 🔗

Yes it will. One way or another.

142752 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #807 of 2914 🔗

It’s how long though. Many totalitarian states have lasted decades.

142774 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DRW, 4, #808 of 2914 🔗

This one has less than six weeks left, maximum. Things are going on behind the scenes to unseat Boris, in my view.

142831 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #809 of 2914 🔗

Hope you’re right!

142841 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, #810 of 2914 🔗

I want to believe that too but I’m not optimistic.

142704 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #811 of 2914 🔗

6 months in and I still don’t know if people being hospitalised are suffering from the disease COVID-19 (whatever the symptoms may be) or are they in for something else and just happen to have a positive test for SARS-COV-2.

142720 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #812 of 2914 🔗

The numbers reported are for those hospitalised for any reason, who happen to test positive. See NHS COVID-19 Hospital Activity and follow the link to “Publication definitions” where you’ll read

Definition of confirmed COVID-19 patients:

• For all relevant data items: a confirmed COVID-19 patient is any patient admitted to the trust who has recently (ie in the last 14 days) tested positive for COVID-19 following a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test.

• Patients who have been diagnosed via X-ray and assessment rather than a positive test should be counted as suspected (and not confirmed) COVID-19 patients.

• Report a patient as a confirmed COVID-19 patient in the sitrep for as long as they are being treated as a COVID-19 patient – so either they are being treated for COVID-19 caused symptoms or the trust is still taking the precautions they would take with a COVID-19 positive patient.

• A patient who has previously but not recently – (ie not in the last 14 days) had a positive COVID-19 test and is admitted for non-COVID-19 related treatment should not be counted as a confirmed COVID-19 patient.

You’ll see that the numbers are management statistics for the use of hospitals rather than scientific research.

142932 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Richard Pinch, #813 of 2914 🔗

Thanks Richard. I’m astounded that this information is not available, unless it is and we’re just not privy to it.

142712 ambwozere, replying to ambwozere, 16, #814 of 2914 🔗

Mike Yeadon on twitter this morning basically calling on Vallance to admit he’s wrong. Worth a read.

https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1308164416207233024?s=20

142750 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to ambwozere, 8, #815 of 2914 🔗

That’s absolutely devastating – it brought tears to my eyes. What, exactly, was Vallance’s role at GSK vs Pandemrix. I can only explain what Mile Yeadon has said in the context of a hold over a once excellent scientist. As I said earlier, Vallance looked as though he was at the presentation yesterday under duress.

142753 ▶▶ tonys, replying to ambwozere, 3, #816 of 2914 🔗

Bloody hell, that’s both barrels emptied, watch them ignore him.

142761 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to tonys, 2, #817 of 2914 🔗

Snap!

crossed replies.

142759 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to ambwozere, 5, #818 of 2914 🔗

I just read his tweet.
He let’s Vallance have both barrels! Especially his reference to when they both worked at Wellcome.

142765 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Alan P, 2, #819 of 2914 🔗

Got it here!

 Those of you who, unaccountably, still believe your Govt is being straight with you, might wish to know how many people in U.K. die each day of various cancers. It’s about 450. Re covid19, we’re closer to the end than the middle. It’s completely implausible that any “secondary ripple”, which is what the minor re-emergence amounts to, will be even a fraction the size of the likely death toll of the average seasonal influenza outbreak we’re about to face. Does it not bother you that the CMO/Chief Scientist are lying to you? It does me.

142768 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 1, #820 of 2914 🔗

To think that 32y ago, a young medic & a fresh faced post-doc researcher both worked at the now closed Wellcome Research Labs. Pat Valance & Mike Yeadon were their names.
We both conducted research in the frontier field of ‘endothelial-derived relaxing factor’ which was soon proven to be nitric oxide. Pat was performing ground breaking work on control of blood flow by NO & chemicals which modified this biochemical pathway. I believe he used his own forearm as one of the test beds.
Mike was, with two others, the first to discover & quantify that mammals breathed out NO: Mike was one of the subjects.

 The two researchers enjoyed reasonably successful careers, both in various pharmaceutical companies. Pat rose vertically & became head of research at GSK. Mike specialised, heading respiratory research at Pfizer, before becoming an entrepreneur (Ziarco).

142770 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 2, #821 of 2914 🔗

So, Pat: how has it come to this, that the dynamic, clever young medic I knew (& admired as well as being slightly envious of) has morphed into being a political tool used by others?

I know that you’re quite aware that what you are part of – whatever that is – has pursued policies that will, in due course, be judged as having been the most catastrophic public health mistakes in U.K. history. Tens of thousands of innocent people have died non-covid19 deaths. And you’re about to do it again. Next time you’re shaving, please look into the mirror. Are you at ease with the extent of suffering, pain, death & awful bereavement that has, and continues to visit upon millions of innocent families? You shouldn’t be.

If you genuinely believe that continuing restrictions, including to the NHS, which will inevitably add further to the death of tens of thousands of innocents, is in some way is “a price worth paying”, then you appal me.

 I’m willing, at any time & mode of communication, to discuss this trade off.

You’ve certainly not bothered to explain, let alone to debate or to justify what’s happening.

142771 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 7, #822 of 2914 🔗

The only science which is being followed has its roots deep in the pre-enlightenment era.

I would relish an opportunity to debate with you what you’re doing. I would share my thinking, much of it building on that of others.

My conclusion is that the best path forward is to immediately halt all Pillar 2 testing (because as deployed it generates results most of which are false positives), protect, to the greatest extent possible, the lives of the highly vulnerable, then lift all the restrictions imposed from the centre & cautiously get on with rebuilding our lives, relationships, education, economy & the NHS.

Pat: I don’t know what your role is in all this. I feel that I’m living in an Orwellian world with all the hallmarks of an abusive relationship between unelected officials & our citizenry.

As you ramp up the needless fear, the useless mask mandates, the fantasy ‘circuit breaker’, already proven not to slow transmission & all the way to grotesque threat of no mixing of households for six months, I recognise this for what it is: gross misuse of power & coercive control.

There is still time to change what you’re doing. If you can’t persuade others,

 I urge you to resign as the only chances you have against a lifetime of derp guilt which, over time, I don’t think you’re going to be able to bear.

144091 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Kate, #823 of 2914 🔗

This is a brilliant and moving indictment, but the devil in me is laughing over the very funny typo in the penultimate line — I think it was meant to be ‘deep’, instead of ‘derp’, but Vallance’s performance throughout HAS been very derpy.

142766 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to ambwozere, #824 of 2914 🔗

That needs thread reader

142782 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to ambwozere, 1, #826 of 2914 🔗

Yeadon pinning his hopes on this?

“A single person who stops lying can bring down a tyranny” Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

142788 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to ambwozere, 2, #827 of 2914 🔗

I don’t suppose that Vallance got to be ‘Sir’ for no good reason.

142802 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 1, #828 of 2914 🔗

Indeed. When checking out the ‘scientists’ (not ‘the science’) I always look at the brown-nose signifiers – from knighthoods to O.B.E

142859 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to ambwozere, #829 of 2914 🔗

Twitter ban in 5 🙁

142916 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to ambwozere, #830 of 2914 🔗

Hopefully Julia H-B will pick up on this – she’s had Mike Yeadon on her show before..

142719 dorset dumpling, #831 of 2914 🔗

At last! Another bare faced shopper in Waitrose, a lady, whom I would guess to be in her 70s, breezed in unmuzzled just as I was exiting the other door so I didn’t get chance to smile or pass comment with her.

On the other hand, I saw a suited gentleman walking down the main shopping street (which I should add was pretty dead, even at 10 this morning) with a black mask on and wearing blue disposable gloves!

142740 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 9, #832 of 2914 🔗

I know the internet has allowed people to live in an echo chamber by visiting only those websites or news articles reflecting their own opinions. However a dot gov website link on Facebook is probably different. I just looked at the comments on local lockdown restrictions in Wales and the comments were almost entirely negative and hostile. This is not scientific, of course but it seems to me to be a little more reflective than of opinion polls about support for the government (remember what the polls said about Brexit). In addition, the shy sceptic phenomenon (which there probably was in March and April) can’t be in play since the comments I looked at were on Facebook, where people tend to post under their own names.

143619 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Londo Mollari, #833 of 2914 🔗

Since getting over the initial scaredy-cat period I’d been substantially more fearful of the cruelty of others’ behaviour than the disease itself. Too many apparently pleasant and reasonable people turn into utter monsters once emboldened by the knowledge that going on a sanctimonious power trip will win them social approval. In addition, I’m guessing I’m not alone in having to carefully tease out the stances of friends, colleagues and neighbours before divulging even safe and legal activities during this period, or strategically mentioning how little you’d been out etc. Thankfully people seem not to be behaving this way for a while now.

142755 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #834 of 2914 🔗

Well the lates figures have been released for the government furlough scheme (job retention scheme).

Not good reading.

This is the first update since 16th August, previous updates have been weekly, updates are now monthly.

20th September 9.6M jobs are furloughed, no change since the 2nd August, drum roll… at a cost so far of £39.3bn

142758 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Dave #KBF, #835 of 2914 🔗

There were rumours it would be extended until December.

142798 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to DRW, 4, #836 of 2914 🔗

I sincerely hope not – it would remove possibly the only impulse that could really wake people up. It sounds cruel but most people seem to have lost all ability to reason and think critically ( e.g. just look at the comments under Nicola Sturgeon’s latest tweet about an impending press conference – a truly depressing read) and only an emotional shock of losing their job/income will make them snap out of it preventing even greater hardship and suffering in the future.

142850 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to 4096, 2, #837 of 2914 🔗

Hence why they want to extend it.

142764 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Dave #KBF, #838 of 2914 🔗

They don’t give a fuck about the money, they have been printing it like toilet paper for years now anyway.

They don’t give a fuck about how many are furloughed either, it is all just theatre.

They want 90% dead and the rest in perception prisons and enslaved!

142808 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #839 of 2914 🔗

The mistake is thinking that is a cost.

It’s a benefit, because that £39.8bn has flowed through the economy keeping other jobs intact, production flowing and bank loans extinguished.

There is no actual cost to the UK maintaining the flow of income through the economy, but a great deal of real cost if we don’t.

142827 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Lucan Grey, 6, #840 of 2914 🔗

It’s a bribe for compliance, nothing more, and it has worked a treat. I am convinced it will be extended indefinitely and, once the vaccine is deployed, morph into Universal Basic Income. Subsistence level state handouts with all the compliance strings attached. No jab, no pay.

142861 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #841 of 2914 🔗

Indeed. I’m glad someone’s worked that out. There are problems with the policy – some people are missed out entirely like my unfortunate musician friends, and some people will actually have been able to raise their standard of living. It should have been set at a (slightly) lower level and applied to more people.

142882 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #842 of 2914 🔗

Keeping production flowing? By a scheme that forbids people to keep working? Are you sure?

The furlough scheme had a reasonable short term justification for a couple of months, but someone who is still on furlough doesn’t have a job to go back to and should be correctly classified as unemployed.

142897 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #843 of 2914 🔗

A simplistic view of it but you’re correct. It keeps cash flow going. So bills get paid.

But it is borrowing. The cost to the UK government will be felt in higher borrowing costs you have to suspect.

And, while bills get paid there is zero investment in the large majority of companies while things continue to be artificially inflated by the furlough. That means when this ends, there is still a huge cull of the workforce to come no matter what.

143135 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Dave #KBF, #844 of 2914 🔗

1.2 million companies on life-support, does not bode well.

142773 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 5, #845 of 2914 🔗

I’m trying to get my head around Toby’s logic in the second article today – “The two Ronnies of Doom”, where he says:

“My best guess is that the Triumvirate know, in their heart of hearts, that they made a colossal cock-up in March and are desperately clinging to Neil Ferguson’s doom-laden prognosis as the rationale for all the terrible damage they’ve done. Rather than admit they got it wrong, they have to remain faithful to their original hypothesis which, if you follow Ferguson’s logic, means we’ve only succeeded in postponing the apocalypse, not averting it.”

If they do realise that the Ferguson model was crap (and they MUST do by now), it doesn’t mean that they have to publicly admit that it was wrong in March in order to steer a more sensible course now surely? They could quietly drop it rather than double down on it and make things worse. Unless there is some other reason why they need to stick with it. I wonder how much power national governments actually have during this crisis as opposed to overriding “guidance” from the W.H.O. for example.

142790 ▶▶ RickH, replying to godowneasy, 1, #846 of 2914 🔗

Distinguishing motivations is difficult. But there is a range from basic confirmation bias to deliberate falsity.

142797 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to godowneasy, 3, #847 of 2914 🔗

I have wondered about this too. I think there is a political imperative to keep things going in the hope of ‘saving us with a vaccine’ – this must be used if it ever appears because the money has already been been spent. I think the Govt and its advisors are also terrified of the media who will scream ‘u-turn’ and insist that they should have known better rather than allowing them to revise their opinions based on new information(the majority of readers/viewers/voters would jump on that bandwagon). Doubling down repeatedly is morally indefensible, but I can see why it might happen.

142804 ▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #848 of 2914 🔗

It’s hard to see how a vaccine could save the Gov if that’s what you mean. By that stage the UK will be destroyed, with little left to save.

142799 ▶▶ tonys, replying to godowneasy, 2, #849 of 2914 🔗

Could be a case of keep lying (to ourselves as well?) and hope a vaccine rescues us soon; it’s that or we will end up at the Old Bailey.

142812 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to tonys, 1, #850 of 2914 🔗

Yes, that’s the thrust of my thinking!

143594 ▶▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to tonys, #851 of 2914 🔗

We talk, of course, as if when (or if?) the vaccine is ready (and I’m going to be generous and allow the assumption that it works sufficiently well, has no major side effects etc) its distribution will be efficient, orderly and equitable.

Or is it more likely that we’ll do things the British govt way instead: fail to order enough or enough people to distribute it, fling out contracts to firms owned by mates of govt big cheeses with no scrutiny of the procurement process, get taken for a ride by fraudsters suppliying boxes of sand and old tyres, send half of what arrives to places that don’t need it and the other half sitting around for weeks in warehouses rented at four times the going rate, and spend nine billion pounds on developing ‘world-beating’ software to trace who’s received it vs paying a few thousand for a tried and tested program already existing. Some will never receive it and will spend years in a hellish Kafkaesque limbo of being unable to get their lives back. The liars will of course puff platitudes that are even more divorced from reality than ever in front of the fawning media about how the British people have shown incredible virtue in ‘volunteering’ to endure such catastrophic economic, societal and health devastation.

143147 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to godowneasy, 2, #852 of 2914 🔗

Yes, I was thinking the same. They may well have realised they made a cock-up in March, but they could easily have saved face by June/July saying they achieved the objective (flatten the curve, save the NHS) – job done, let’s get back to normal and well done to themselves for averting a crisis. Most people would have bought that without further questions. Focus the news on the flattened death & hospital curves and ignore the (false positive) test data.

The choices they have made just do not make any sense – politically or scientifically – unless there is some ulterior motive (which we can happily speculate about).

142775 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #853 of 2914 🔗

https://youtu.be/Wd4K4bsj7FU

The Vaccine Rap produced by Trinity College Dublin

No words

142849 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #854 of 2914 🔗

Do they not realise that this can be used against them as evidence in future years.

142919 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #855 of 2914 🔗

No words but vomit all over the place now. Not brave enough to allow comments though were they!

144378 ▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #856 of 2914 🔗

I’m embarassed on their behalf.

142778 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 11, #857 of 2914 🔗

I have posted this before and this information was also in a letter to my uber-twatt of an MP but its worth posting it here again. Ferguson’s litany of bullshit predictions. He has a well proven track record of pumping out total BOLLOCKS.

2001 Ferguson said that 6 million healthy farm animals must be slaughtered and incinerated in huge festering piles all over the UK.

2002 Ferguson predicted that 50000 would die from BSE or 150000 if it broke out in sheep, 177 people died.

In 2005 he said 200 million would die of “bird Flu”, 440 people died

2009 he said “swine Flu” would kill 65000 in the UK, 457 died

142803 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Two-Six, 4, #858 of 2914 🔗

2002 Ferguson predicted that 50000 would die from BSE or 150000 if it broke out in sheep, 177 people died.

Well, the estimate for deaths over 80 years from vCJD was between 50 (that’s fifty, not fifty thousand) and 150,000 as a 95% confidence interval, and to quote the paper

Best-fit estimates associated with 2001-2080 confidence bounds generally lie in the range 100-1,000,

It turned out to be 177 over 20 years, which is, obviously, consistent with both the wider and the narrower estimate. Of course the media reported the more exciting “up to” figure rather than “as low as 50”. I agree that an estimate covering some four orders of magnitude would in general be better expressed as “we don’t know”.
From Nature, 10 January 2002

“We cannot exclude the possibility that the epidemic is very large,” says Ferguson. He adds, however, that the worst-case situation is by far the most unlikely.

Of course the media weren’t interested in reporting that.

In 2005 he said 200 million would die of “bird Flu”, 440 people died

From Nature, 08 September 2005 (my emphasis)

The epidemiologist at Imperial College London wanted to know what would happen if the avian influenza virus H5N1 mutated so that it could pass readily from human to human.

So if avian flu had become human transmissible, then … . But it didn’t and 200 million people didn’t die. Which is good,

2009 he said “swine Flu” would kill 65000 in the UK, 457 died

He was asked for a Reasonable Worst Case estimate, not a prediction. A Reasonable Worst Case scenario is explicitly not a prediction of what will happen certainly, or most probably — it’s an estimate of the worst outcome that can reasonably be expected. It is used for planning purposes to decide if you can cope or whether you need to take further measures. For example, a business might ask you to consider what would happen if its factory burned down. You might produce a RWC on the basis of cost of loss of stock, loss of life to workers, loss of business to competitors, and so on. That would be a reasonable basis on which to start the consideration of insurance, fire alarms, sprinkler systems and so on. You would not expect at the end of the year to be told that your RWC estimate was “dangerous nonsense” because the factory did not burn down after all.

142838 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #859 of 2914 🔗

Throughout this entire Covid fiasco, they seem to have assumed that the RWC scenario is the most likely and ramped up the fear porn (via BBC) appropriately.

But thanks for the fact checking

142846 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Kev, #860 of 2914 🔗

not even the most likely but destiny

142909 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kev, 1, #861 of 2914 🔗

The kicker is in the term ‘Reasonable’.

142867 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #862 of 2914 🔗

By the way, you’ll notice that I didn’t say anything about Foot and Mouth. I thought, and think, that was a terrible disaster, although I’m inclined to assign more responsibility for that to David King, then Chief Science Adviser (now reprising as head of “Independent Sage”) and Roy Anderson.

142879 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #863 of 2914 🔗

Some good balance. It explains in some part why he still gets the advisor role.

In your personal opinion though, why would he continue to allow the highly unlikely worst cases to be banded about when he knows how much damage that caused in tbe past? Yes, model for it, but he should have learned his lesson about the consequences of letting others run wild with it.

142941 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #864 of 2914 🔗

There’s a lot going on that I don’t fully understand here. Although, as I explain below, I hold no brief for Ferguson, there seems to me a sustained campaign against him, possibly because people don’t like the policies that are associated with his modelling. Is it possible that more influential people are happy to deflect blame onto him for their decisions? I just don’t know.

143043 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Richard Pinch, #865 of 2914 🔗

He gets the blame because he’s clearly a charlatan, his models apparently can’t even reproduce the same results with the same inputs, and when he eventually reluctantly releases his very dated and limited source code others can’t reproduce his results.

He says his estimate of 250,000 dead from Covid in the UK is totally vindicated because of the extreme and hugely damaging policies he advocated.

Modelling has its place, but we need to get back to evidence based policies, not policy based evidence.

143422 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Richard Pinch, #866 of 2914 🔗

Apart from the fact that he consistently gets things wrong?

143527 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #867 of 2914 🔗

Well, that’s rather the point. As I point out, at least four of the things he is supposed to have got wrong either weren’t said by him, or weren’t actually wrong. So why does everyone say that they were?

142918 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, -1, #868 of 2914 🔗

Are you sure you are not Ferguson?

142933 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #869 of 2914 🔗

Quite sure, thanks for asking! I have no particular brief for Ferguson, whom I’ve never met, but I do believe that mathematical modelling, correctly applied, is a valuable technique that can be and indeed is being put to good use in the present crisis: see the work of V-KEMS for example.

142949 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, #870 of 2914 🔗

His forecast was for CJD was great.It was so wide ranging he couldn’t fail to be right.He is the Damian Hirst of the modelling world.Selling crap to gullible idiots.
In a former life he sold new clothes to emperors

142979 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #871 of 2914 🔗

Exactly this. It’s surely better to refine towards the worst case scenario as data improves and you can test the validity of your model. So if it does get worse, you are readjusting.

Doing it all at once from the outset is clearly irresponsible, the consequences of which can be seen throughout the career of Ferguson time and time again.

143008 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #872 of 2914 🔗

i reckon that Liverpool will win the league again with a points margin between 1 and 100

Headline ,,, Liverpool likely to win the league by 100 points.

143220 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #873 of 2914 🔗

Perhaps you missed the bit where I quoted

Best-fit estimates associated with 2001-2080 confidence bounds generally lie in the range 100-1,000,

143605 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard Pinch, #874 of 2914 🔗

I lost interest.All computer models rely on the data put in.Get one thing wrong and you will get a wrong answer.You can cheerlead all you want;Ferguson’s model was junk.We would have been much better off if we had done nothing.
It is my opinion that it was a fig leaf for a political decision already made and the facts are growing day by day that this whole crisis in not about a deadly virus.

143735 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #875 of 2914 🔗

We would have been much better off if we had done nothing.

Based on what? The answer is not “Sweden”, by the way, where quite a lot was done. Perhaps Guayaquil, with collapse of the health system and 670% excess deaths: equivalent to maybe 350,000 in the UK.

143783 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #876 of 2914 🔗

All computer models rely on the data put in.Get one thing wrong and you will get a wrong answer.

That’s a more important misconception to correct than anything Ferguson might or might not have said. A useful model allows you to explore the dependence of the outputs on the inputs. In particular, you can explore the robustness of the output. If, for example, you only need to have an answer to within certain limits, you may be able to specify the corresponding limits on the input, and in turn compare that with whether or not you know that input parameter to within those limits. I don’t say that always happens, but it’s sufficiently common to be a valuable use of the modelling process.

143896 ▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Richard Pinch, -1, #877 of 2914 🔗

Or, to put it more succinctly, he got it completely wrong. Again.

142814 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Two-Six, 2, #878 of 2914 🔗

Cant remember if this has been referred to before but –

Ferguson was being rehabilitated in a cosy interview on “The Life Scientific” 9am this morning (peak listening) with Jim Al Khalili.

Radio 4 Your favourite State propaganda service.

142926 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #879 of 2914 🔗

In 2009 one month before the declared pandemic WHO changed their definition of the word pandemic. It was shown in court a large finacial gain was the result.

143810 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Basics, 1, #880 of 2914 🔗

It is true that WHO changed their definition in 2009. Which court case showed that they made a financial gain as a result?

142779 Gtec, replying to Gtec, 32, #881 of 2914 🔗

There was a very amusing letter in the Telegraph today about Vallance’s projections, which showed that by:

“Applying exactly the same method, the entire population [of the UK] will have had Covid-19 and 11.5 million of us will be dead before Christmas Day.

Shortly after New Year’s Day, all human life in the United Kingdom will have ended.”

Which I think nicely illustrates the nonsense that we are being peddled!

142820 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Gtec, 8, #882 of 2914 🔗

Bill and Ben the Apocalypse Men look increasingly desperate to keep The Narrative going. As others have said, they both looked very uncomfortable and shaky.

142904 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gtec, 1, #883 of 2914 🔗

That was a brilliant letter – Peter Hitchens has it up on his Twitter account but it would be good if someone could send it to Julia Hartley-Brewer and others with a big following as it might wake a few more people up!

142922 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Gtec, 1, #884 of 2914 🔗

Gmb hilary doctor actually defended this – he blurted out herd immunity as one factor that wasn’t calculated in – herd immunity in turn was later slandered by Lisa Nandy by saying it was akin to letting the virus rip through the herd sacrificing a few thousand for the comon good.

It is bad when you pay attention to these people.

142789 CraigH, 1, #885 of 2914 🔗

” … My best guess is that the Triumvirate know, in their heart of hearts, that they made a colossal cock-up in March … “

is pretty much what I wrote about our own NZ PM, the wretched Ardern, a month ago. Those of you old enough will know what the reference to The Lady is. I was liberal with the reason for Maggie not ‘turning’ but I was making a point.

Political Fraud, Political Capital, and Why “The Lady’s Not For Turning”
https://www.minds.com/waimak_one/blog/political-fraud-political-capital-and-why-the-lady-s-not-for-1143346999841357824

Have been loving this space of fact and sanity over the past months. It’s not easy being of the political left persuasion (well so I had thought, until now) when all my erstwhile colleagues have completely lost their heads and are destroying our economy; and are impossible to have a rational conversation with … you know the story.

142794 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 34, #886 of 2914 🔗

The media on Sweden:-

March: Outrageous that they haven’t locked down! They’re playing with peoples lives! It’s state sponsored genocide!

April: Sweden must lock down now, look at the death rates they are going to be decimated!

May: Sweden will be the pariahs of the world! How can they be the only ones that think it’s right not to lock down?

June: Not locking down is a flawed policy from a country with a superiority complex that doesn’t care about it’s elderly. Just look at the deaths compared to Finland and it’s only going to get worse!

July: …

August: …

September:  …Actually I think you’ll find Sweden did actually lock down actually.

Laughable.

142801 ▶▶ D B, replying to Achilles, 9, #887 of 2914 🔗

October: We should have followed Sweden

142828 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to D B, 5, #888 of 2914 🔗

November: Anders Tegnell should replace Whitty and Valance on SAGE

December: Sweden did the right thing

142836 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #889 of 2914 🔗

I think they’ll just double down on the “Sweden were good boys and girls” crap so it’s OUR fault again.

142857 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DRW, 1, #890 of 2914 🔗

The likes of Wancock and the lockdownistas are bleating how “selfish” we are and “not following da rules”

142900 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Achilles, #891 of 2914 🔗

Simon Dolan said he was going to be visiting Sweden – I think this week – so I’m guessing he might put some film up from his visit if he does…

142795 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 12, #892 of 2914 🔗

ONS weekly figures are out. Coronavirus holding steady at just 1% of all deaths, and that’s with the ‘bounce’ from the previous week’s reduction due to the bank holiday.
Phew, 1%. Good job there aren’t any more dangerous illnesses to worry about…

142800 ▶▶ D B, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #893 of 2914 🔗

ONE PERCENT OF ALL DEATHS?! Awful news, we must lock down at ONCE you hear me, AT ONCE!

142874 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to D B, 4, #894 of 2914 🔗

Lockdown is not enough. We need two simultaneous lockdowns, one for covid and another one for the other 99%. Actually, maybe we need three lockdowns just in case. If it can save one life, after all.

142796 Tking, replying to Tking, 27, #895 of 2914 🔗

What amazes me is the government and lots of the public, have no idea of the collateral damage, and do not consider it at all.

It seems to me that all they are interested in is Corona, deaths from cancer/heart disease, suicide are irrelevent as that is not in their remit. Businesses destroyed, livelyhoods lost, not in their remit. Childrens education destroyed, not relevant. Corona is the only thing they are interested in and tasked with dealing with, despite the fact that to most of us it will be a minor nothing. Total tunnel vision.

142876 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Tking, 3, #896 of 2914 🔗

Monomania:

exaggerated or obsessive enthusiasm for or preoccupation with one thing

142878 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tking, 4, #897 of 2914 🔗

What is astounding is that the MSM is so entirely shackled that the mounting collateral damage is hardly a story alongside the Fear and Panic scams.

142921 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to RickH, #898 of 2914 🔗

“Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid.”

142899 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Tking, 2, #899 of 2914 🔗

Too thick to understand basic economics.

142995 ▶▶ James, replying to Tking, 2, #900 of 2914 🔗

For what it’s worth I believe what’s left of the government are fully aware of the damage they are doing to the economy and the lives that are being needlessly lost because of the effective withdrawal of the Public Health Service . They may not be the brightest people in the world but they are not that stupid. They are persisting in this course for other reasons – fully aware of the consequences. We can only speculate as to what they are. And many people are speculating . Confronted with evil there is a natural tendency to excuse it or diminish it or even mock it. They are defences against feeling the fear that the awareness we are in the presence of evil engenders.

142805 sky_trees, replying to sky_trees, 8, #901 of 2914 🔗

Fantastic development: Carl Henegan and Sunetra Gupta have been involved with advising the government this weekend alongside the SAGE lot. Perhaps behind the terrorising of the public that’s recently taken place (which I consider abuse), there is some rational discussion and decision-making behind the scenes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/21/fightback-against-spike-in-coronavirus-thrashed-out-at-no-10-summit?CMP=share_btn_tw

Deep into Sunday night, a debate was playing out in the heart of Downing Street. The prime minister had gathered the UK’s most eminent scientists – and was learning that “follow the science” is not as simple as it sounds.

After more than a week of worrying news, with cases rising dramatically across the UK, some of the scientists at the late-night summit were in fierce disagreement over what to do .

Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, held a summit of scientists from the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) to help thrash out how to proceed.

Among those also present were two Oxford University figures – Sunetra Gupta, professor of theoretical epidemiology, and Prof Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-based Medicine.

142824 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to sky_trees, 11, #902 of 2914 🔗

Well it’s great that Gupta and Henegan were consulted but it didn’t stop them wheeling out the doomsters the next day or Matty wielding his northern axe. So maybe their views were ignored?

142825 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to godowneasy, 10, #903 of 2914 🔗

Maybe that was just a token invite so they can claim a veneer of consensus and that they are “following The Science”.

142894 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, #904 of 2914 🔗

Likely true..

142847 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to godowneasy, 4, #905 of 2914 🔗

Suspect that is why they put out the letter with other signatories yesterday – so nobody can deny they were not warned.

142895 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #906 of 2914 🔗

Exactly!

143059 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to sky_trees, 2, #907 of 2914 🔗

sounds like Johnson took a leaf out of LBJ’s book. Consulting a wide group of people and heading down the middle-hence his reference to Lockdown zealots. In LBJ’s case it was alleged that he paid people to take extreme positions so that he could appear moderate re Vietnam.

143431 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to crimsonpirate, #908 of 2914 🔗

LBJ quite famously took meetings in the bathroom when he was in the middle of a pi**! 🙂

142809 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #909 of 2914 🔗

As someone who lives and works in London, I have to agree with Carl Vernon here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4vTgopBlts

Sadiq Khan is a menace to London. Not only is he content to turn London into a ghost town, he wants to kill it once and for all with his insane demands for more lockdowns and masks.

Its really time for the large businesses, City firms, the likes of the British Museum and the Royal Opera House to grow a pair and speak out on the continued destruction of the capital city.

Khan like Cressida Dick should be put in the Tower for treason and wanton destruction of London and its people.

142819 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #910 of 2914 🔗

The Wrath of Khan

142823 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Achilles, 2, #911 of 2914 🔗

KHAAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!

142923 ▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #912 of 2914 🔗

I’m afraid London is getting what it deserves good and hard. London voted for this evil creature after all. It is a proud bastion of all that is anti-British, its cultural institutions are rotten to the core and its undoing cannot come soon enough.

The writing was on the wall when I left London 20 years ago, and nothing has since made me question my decision to get out for the good of my mental health and physical security.

142966 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 4, #913 of 2914 🔗

London is finished. I am clinging on by my fingernails in the suburbs but there is no coming back from this. The era of the “world city” – a completely false and empty paradigm – is over.

Simply by virtue of being the seat of traitorous government, it is by definition anti-British, and especially anti-English.

143300 ▶▶▶▶ Richard, replying to Richard O, 1, #914 of 2914 🔗

Excursion to the City is over and on essentially empty train back to Norfolk.
The last day and a bit have been hard to really digest – massive new towers completed but empty on Bishopsgate – they look like a relic from another era.
Destruction of businesses is visable in closed shops / bars (I think between Tower Hill and Gracechurch Street it would fair time say at least one in three businesses shuttered for good – after today that’s going to increase significantly – how would now pay Q4 rent on 29th September. Virtually empty apartment blocks and mad new traffic restrictions. Not sure when I will go back again but I just don’t see how it recovers from this for years.

144516 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard O, #915 of 2914 🔗

London was propped up by an overpriced property market and cheap labour. The lockdown and social distancing is accelerating its demise.

144507 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, #916 of 2914 🔗

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I live in outer London but I have seen enough of those who were complicit with Khan over the destruction of this city and yes, I could see the rot even when I first arrived in this country 15 years ago.

If these businesses and institutions are too cowardly and supine to speak up then I’m sorry but I shan’t shed any tears for them when they go bust.

142813 IMoz, 8, #917 of 2914 🔗

According to the ONS, deaths for week 37 (ending 11 Sep) of 2020:-

Total: 9811 (up from 7739 prev. week, up from 9306 5Y average)*

‘flu/pneumonia: 1125 (up from 874 prev. week)*
COVID-19: 99 (78 from 78 prev. week)*

* affected by late registrations due to the bank holiday

less likely to be affected:-
‘flu/pneumonia:COVID-19 ratio is just over 11.4:1 (11.8:1 prev. week), COVID-19 mentions as a proportion of all-cause deaths: 1% (prev. week 0.956%), ‘flu/pneumonia: 11.47% (prev. week 11.23%)

So pretty much holding steady that week, why the panic??? Is it ignorance of when to use relative vs absolute numbers that is driving the hysteria?

source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending11september2020

142817 Ozzie, 15, #918 of 2914 🔗

Just sent this to my MP. If you can make any use of it, to send a letter to your MP, then please feel free.

Dear Ms Xxxx,

As one of your constituents, I am writing to you about the forthcoming renewal of the Coronavirus Act 2020 to find out what your response will be.

The current and previous curtailment of people’s liberty in this country has caused untold misery in both health (non-covid) and economic perspectives for many.  In my own household of four, two have been furloughed and one has had her business, of ten years, destroyed by this government’s decisions. The two on furlough are youngsters who are just starting their careers and I can see the adverse mental health effects this is having on them.

I am deeply concerned, as are many, that the government should not be allowed to rule by decree any more and should revert to parliament for decision making, where reasoned and rational discussion can take place.

The government appear to be hellbent on using a broad approach (eg.  lockdown, whole community restrictions) to deal with the virus.  This is causing wide scale collateral damage particularly to those who are unlikely to be adversely affected by the virus.  A more nuanced approach which protects the vulnerable, restores the social fabric of society and allows the rest of the economy to begin the long road to recovery seems far more sensible, particularly for a virus that now appears to be less virulent than the seasonal flu.

Yours sincerely,

142821 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 14, #919 of 2914 🔗

You know that the Treasury is up the shitter when you get email from NS&I:

We’re getting in touch to let you know that we’re reducing the interest rates on some of our savings accounts on 24 November 2020.

Here are the changes:

NS&I account : Current Rate ->New Rate (gross/AER)

Direct Saver : 1.00% -> 0.15%

Income Bonds : 1.16% -> 0.01%/0.01%

Investment Account : 0.80%  -> 0.01%

Direct ISA : 0.90% -> 0.10%

Junior ISA : 3.25% -> 1.50%

142839 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to IMoz, 4, #920 of 2914 🔗

what a time to be a saver eh. You must feel so lucky 🙂

142842 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to IMoz, 3, #921 of 2914 🔗

So, the account I opened just a couple of months ago is going to be paying as near as damn it no interest… Thanks again, Boris.

142848 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #922 of 2914 🔗

Stick it under the mattress

142852 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, #923 of 2914 🔗

Honestly been thinking just that, Ste, even before this announcement.

142893 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to stefarm, 1, #924 of 2914 🔗

Invest it in a pharmaceutical company

143163 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Achilles, #925 of 2914 🔗

Or some exotic pharmaceuticals.

143058 ▶▶▶ JASA, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #926 of 2914 🔗

Swap it to Premium Bonds.

144445 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JASA, #928 of 2914 🔗

Gold.

142862 ▶▶ D B, replying to IMoz, #929 of 2914 🔗

Makes the 1% I get on current account balances up to £2,000 look like a fotrune!

142865 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to IMoz, 1, #930 of 2914 🔗

The question to ask here is why the trend is always down. The reduction of interest on savings is a fundamental principle of teh debt based money system, as new money is a form of inflation which taxes savers and rewards asset owners. The debasement of currency. And it’s approaching its endgame. Its why we have increasingly large financial crises in the markets as funny money can’t find a place to go. We print more to bailout the asset owners but it only kicks the can into an already overflowing skip. It is also the reason why one wage earner was enough to raise a family in the boomer generation, no longer.

You can see tell tale signs everywhere. Look up negative interest rates, where institutions are literally paid to borrow money.

https://www.ft.com/content/ecc4a23d-f175-41e9-8f07-852dbe03d062

142884 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IMoz, 1, #931 of 2914 🔗

But anything > zero is exponential growth. The doubling time may be equivalent to the half life of radioactive waste but that’s not important.

142887 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to IMoz, 2, #932 of 2914 🔗

I got the same letter yesterday. Soon these rates will be negative, to be deducted as a fee for the privilege of saving my increasingly worthless currency with HM Treasury. A full spectrum assault on our wealth is under way. I do not expect to have any savings left by the end of this shitshow.

142892 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to IMoz, #933 of 2914 🔗

Investment account not worth having – 0,01%?????

142937 ▶▶ Jimmmi, replying to IMoz, 1, #934 of 2914 🔗

Please please read The Simple Path To Wealth by J L Collins. No nonsense, the kind of advice I wish I’d been given as a teenager and later when I inherited a house as an early 20-something with no family or friends or guidance.
I went through keeping money in all those kind of vehicles, even held physical gold for ten years. Keep reading financial books, trying to figure it out (no one around me has money savvy as we’re not in the financial classes) and eventually – this year – went with Vanguard.

143256 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Jimmmi, #935 of 2914 🔗

Agreed, it’s a great book. Also talking about it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71ibcZAX3I&t=902s&ab_channel=TalksatGoogle

142840 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #936 of 2914 🔗

Apologies to be a pest… a few posters mentioned yesterday that Whitty was shaking like a leaf. Is this actually the case and could somebody point me towards a clip showing this? I’ve got zealot friends saying he was cool as a cucumber – someone must be wrong

Cheers

142889 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tom Blackburn, #937 of 2914 🔗

I did not see it, but I would suspect it is on youtube somewhere..

142901 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Carrie, #938 of 2914 🔗

I’m searching without any success

142910 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #939 of 2914 🔗

TalkRadio’s watch along with Peter Hitchens has (I think) the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF6B7Fzo2zA&t=2041s

What does it matter anyway? The lies have been told and the TV-watching drones will believe what they are told to.

142914 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to jb12, #940 of 2914 🔗

I’m just trying to chip away at some of the wrong uns that leap to the defence of arbitrary and ruinous rules rather than their fellow man…. Thanks for the clip

142851 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #941 of 2914 🔗

“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”

142855 ▶▶ DRW, replying to p02099003, 2, #942 of 2914 🔗

But we must Beat The Virus and Save Granny!

142890 ▶▶▶ steph, replying to DRW, 7, #943 of 2914 🔗

This is the most vile thing of the whole government lies and attempts at behaviour modification, in my opinion. It is shameful to scare young people like this and make them feel guilty about living ordinary lives. I’d bet my house on the fact that most of us over 60 have unwittingly been in an infection chain that has led to the death of a vulnerable individual of ‘flu or similar. Never in my lifetime has it been suggested that we should stop all normal activity because of this. It has been accepted as a sad fact of life up until now.

142905 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to steph, 2, #944 of 2914 🔗

I’d say every human being who ever lived has been part of an unwitting infection chain that eventually ended in someone’s death. It’s preposterous to think anyone bears any direct responsibility for this sad fact of life.

142945 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to DRW, #945 of 2914 🔗

Indeed we must! I always wind my mum up with the “save granny” and “granny killers” lines. She hates the way grannies are portrayed as stupid old dears incapable of making their own rational choices. It is so bl**dy patronising to the nation’s grannies!

143155 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to DRW, #946 of 2914 🔗

Or Beat Granny and Save The Virus, the result will be the same.

142856 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #947 of 2914 🔗

Jeremy Vine just coming on: “Have you been in the pub and almost seen the virus spreading?”
FFS.

142864 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #948 of 2914 🔗

He is a dick, I’ve been to the pub and guess what still no one sick.

142868 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to wayno, 4, #949 of 2914 🔗

The balanced answer is :

“And have you seen the data, which shows no increase in spread when the pubs re-opened?”

142872 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wayno, 4, #950 of 2914 🔗

Yep, same customers, same staff throughout. All still there. Rather like supermarkets.

142866 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sam Vimes, #951 of 2914 🔗

Thought JV was a sceptic?

142869 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, #952 of 2914 🔗

Exactly.

142871 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #953 of 2914 🔗

As in Greta can ‘see’ carbon dioxide?

142908 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #954 of 2914 🔗

Yes, it’s a gift we just don’t have TT.

142943 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, #955 of 2914 🔗

I know, wish I hadn’t spent those 4 years studying natural science!

142912 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #956 of 2914 🔗

All this shit is keeping these shill’s in a job, when will people realise that if it was that dangerous the radio and TV would be blank as we would all be hiding from everyone for fear of deeeeaaaaatttttthhhhhhhh…..

143171 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Sam Vimes, #957 of 2914 🔗

Er, …no.

142870 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 38, #958 of 2914 🔗

I wrote to Richard after reading of his letter in the Telegraph which someone posted on here. Today I received this excellent response, particularly impressive as he is not my MP.

Thank you for your kind and supportive email about my letter in the Telegraph.

Bearing in mind the unprecedented nature of this virus, I think we had no choice but to lock the country down initially.

However, we now know a lot more and none of the dire predictions have come true.

The majority of the nation have not been affected by it and, for the majority of those that have, a full recovery has followed.

What is unfortunate is that the modelling is clearly flawed, with Government advisers hiding behind a very worst case scenario, no doubt for fear of their reputations.

Politicians, no doubt fearful of their futures, have hidden behind them.

We have a bunker mentality within Westminster at the moment, while those outside struggle to comprehend the endless edicts and warnings that come from it.

There is a growing number of us that are lobbying the Government behind the scenes before the Coronavirus Act comes back before us next Wednesday .

We are making progress, so let’s hope common sense prevails.

Thank you again for your kind email.

Warm regards

Richard

Richard Drax MP

Member of Parliament for South Dorset

House of Commons

London SW1A 0AA

142875 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Margaret, 5, #959 of 2914 🔗

Gosh – one half decent one left. Wonder how he managed to get past the selection process?

142880 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to redbirdpete, 2, #960 of 2914 🔗

I have had various “thank yous “ from other MPs to whom I’ve written but never a reply which answered all the points that I had made.

142886 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, 2, #961 of 2914 🔗

Encouraging 🙂

142907 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Margaret, 2, #962 of 2914 🔗

In the obvious absence of any blackmail material on this guy, the next step will be initiating the deselection process. The Covid Cult cannot tolerate any dissent.

142920 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 4, #963 of 2914 🔗

Of course, the argument is blown out of the water by this phrase:

the unprecedented nature of this virus”

… because, of course, this virus is not ‘unprecedented’ in any meaningful sense.

142927 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, 1, #964 of 2914 🔗

It gives the party ‘an out’?

142935 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Margaret, 2, #965 of 2914 🔗

What a gent! Good for Richard Drax!

142936 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Margaret, 1, #966 of 2914 🔗

Maybe, just maybe, there is some hope.

142962 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Margaret, #967 of 2914 🔗

For fear of their reputations?

It’s a bit late for that…

143057 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Margaret, 2, #968 of 2914 🔗

An intelligent reply and perceptive too. Bunker mentality describes the Government precisely.

142903 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 8, #969 of 2914 🔗

I think Whitty is about to have a mental breakdown, or worse. The pressure will get too much for him, I expect him to disappear from public view but we won’t be told why.

142924 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Gillian, 2, #970 of 2914 🔗

Think your right – that was my reading of how he looked and behaved yesterday. Also think Vallance was there under duress, and the call to him from Mike Yeadon (see twitter post copied below by Kate) suggests he knows that too.

Game will be up pretty soon!

142928 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 11, #971 of 2914 🔗

If Witty gets to shuffle away with a mental breakdown, that’s an outcome he should be grateful for.

He should be on the gallows in parliament square along with the rest of those responsible for this.

142994 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 1, #972 of 2914 🔗

There was the precedent of Sir Anthony Eden shuffling away on ill-health grounds after the Suez debacle. But he was PM.

143186 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 1, #973 of 2914 🔗

He is a criminal. If he’s losing his marbles he should be in a high security asylum for the rest of his natural. Keep him away from sane people. Fuck him.

143372 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to paulito, 2, #974 of 2914 🔗

He should take up the cell currently occupied by Julian Assange.

142931 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Gillian, 7, #975 of 2914 🔗

Presumably he isn’t bothered by mental breakdown, since the mental breakdown of thousands is happening and will continue to happen under policies he endorses.

142939 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Gillian, #976 of 2914 🔗

Hasn’t he threatened to resign if he didn’t get his way? Maybe he’s preparing an ‘escape pod’ from this.

142906 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #977 of 2914 🔗

Tim Martin on Vine, saying social distancing in pubs does the trick, quoting Heneghan, Gupta, Giesecke and saying follow the facts. Vine countered with story of guy who came back from holiday, didn’t quarantine and infected several people – in pubs. So pubs were to blame. Martin explained it was the guy, not the pubs. Then some woman who toured Manchester pubs spying on Test and Trace measures (when it was optional).
Now a caller talking about a “deadly virus going around”.

142929 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #978 of 2914 🔗

People have accepted the assertion of social distancing and even masks. Just a load of bollocks and now it’s “fact”

142942 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to mhcp, 3, #979 of 2914 🔗

It’s worse that that, they cannot even remember a time when this was not normal. In addition to annihilating the present and future, our past is being warped beyond recognition.

142934 Sarigan, 2, #980 of 2914 🔗

Something ‘very strange’ is occurring amid Europe’s second wave of infections

Something “very strange” is currently taking place in Europe amid its second wave of coronavirus infections, according to Sky News host Andrew Bolt.

142938 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 7, #981 of 2914 🔗

How much greater can the edifice of lies become before it collapses?

This isn’t just a house of cards, it’s a house of cards built upon another house of cards built upon shifting sands. There has to be a breaking point, even for the most mentally enfeebled in our society. My fear is that this will not come until it is far too late to recover from the damage (most of which is already irreparable). In other words, this is is the end of Western civilisation.

142973 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Richard O, 1, #982 of 2914 🔗

We need a scalp!

142998 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Richard O, 2, #983 of 2914 🔗

Yep – but you forgot to mention the mountain of shit built on top of the edifice

142948 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 3, #984 of 2914 🔗

Bart Simpson, I’m so sorry about your job. Can we please remove these criminal idiots and just open everything back up

143075 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mhcp, 1, #985 of 2914 🔗

Nothing would make me happier than to see that happen!

142950 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 31, #986 of 2914 🔗

Right I’m back, and reporting for duty.

What do we burn first?

142951 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 4, #987 of 2914 🔗

Welcome back.

142952 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Farinances, 4, #988 of 2914 🔗

Great to have you back Farinances!

142954 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Farinances, 2, #989 of 2914 🔗

Welcome back. Thought you’d taken time off to lead the revolution in the North of England.

142956 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #990 of 2914 🔗

That is now the plan.

143162 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Farinances, 2, #991 of 2914 🔗

Sign me up.
I do not agree. I do not consent. I will not comply.

142955 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Farinances, 3, #992 of 2914 🔗

Welcome back Farinances. Don’t you mean ‘who’ or are you thinking about a dedicated place that will accommodate multiple people?

142959 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #993 of 2914 🔗

‘whom’ 😉

142963 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ovis, 3, #994 of 2914 🔗

I’m a scientist, go easy on me!

142988 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #995 of 2914 🔗

As Vallance might say at his trial

143022 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ovis, #996 of 2914 🔗

Haha!

142961 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, 4, #997 of 2914 🔗

welcome back Farinances!! 🙂
A few lamposts should do the trick as mussolini found out in milan!

142967 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 2, #998 of 2914 🔗

Thanks all. I never went far, well… I went to Wales, enjoyed some sanity, came back and thought I’d bide my time to see what October would bring.

Well, now I know.

143019 ▶▶ JASA, replying to Farinances, 2, #999 of 2914 🔗

Glad you’re back.

143076 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 1, #1000 of 2914 🔗

Welcome back!!!

143279 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Farinances, #1001 of 2914 🔗

WB That really is a good question. What to burn first.

142957 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #1002 of 2914 🔗

Jesus. Is anyone else listening to BoJo’s statement?

142960 ▶▶ Olive, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #1003 of 2914 🔗

yes. feel like going to be sick

142965 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Olive, 3, #1004 of 2914 🔗

Pass the bucket, please

142972 ▶▶▶▶ EssieSW, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #1005 of 2914 🔗

Yes. I am in the office so trying to keep my swearing to a whisper but it is very difficult.

142997 ▶▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to EssieSW, 4, #1006 of 2914 🔗

That’s not allowed any more. The being in the office, I mean, not the swearing. The swearing is fine.

142968 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #1007 of 2914 🔗

He is evil

142971 ▶▶▶ Olive, replying to JulieR, 10, #1008 of 2914 🔗

this is truly evil

142969 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #1009 of 2914 🔗

He needs to go. The whole lot of these criminals need to go. Sweden, Sweden, Sweden

142977 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #1010 of 2914 🔗

Yes, he can barely read these days without making mistakes. He needs to be removed. He will be removed pretty soon, but not before he has wreaked more totally unwarranted damage.

142978 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Charlie Blue, 6, #1011 of 2914 🔗

Labour thinks it’s all wonderful.
Goodnight and good luck…

142983 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #1012 of 2914 🔗

Can’t bear to – what has he said?

142996 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Carrie, 2, #1013 of 2914 🔗

Can’t compute! Fuse blown in my brain. Waffle, waffle, 6 months, waffle, army to support police, more restrictions if R rate not below 1, waffle. Have to go to work (while I have some) – handing the baton over to another listener…

143000 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #1014 of 2914 🔗

The army??????

143073 ▶▶▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Carrie, 2, #1015 of 2914 🔗

Yes – the army. Not to provide logistical ‘can-do’ as some have wisely suggested, but to SUPPORT THE POLICE!!!

142993 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #1016 of 2914 🔗

I’ve just seen a headline and that was bad enough… 🤦‍♂️

143037 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #1017 of 2914 🔗

It is more what he has not said, they talk about suppressing the virus, controlling the virus and slowing the spread of the virus and then about defeating the virus.
Do they think they are going to eliminate it? if not where is all this heading? What is the end game in all this? It is as clear as mud.
If we are not going to eliminate it, which is impossible (until it goes on it’s own ) how are we going to live with it? no idea?

143148 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #1018 of 2914 🔗

Ultimately a social credit system, sneaked in via the Trojan Horse of the health passport.

143041 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #1019 of 2914 🔗

Yes, the guy has completely lost it. Media still in full shill mode.

142964 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 13, #1020 of 2914 🔗

6 more months of this crap. I may as well pack up now and give the house keys to the bank.

143270 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1021 of 2914 🔗

:o((

142970 Recusant, replying to Recusant, 39, #1022 of 2914 🔗

6 months? That fat fucking prick has just killed dozens of football clubs, choirs, theatres and orchestras. Civilisation means nothing to that barbarian.

142976 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Recusant, 16, #1023 of 2914 🔗

Add to that:

Hospitality Industry
Travel Industry
Leisure Industry

just about every other industry

142984 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Recusant, 9, #1024 of 2914 🔗

It was always going to be at least six months. The fact he’s giving that time frame now suggests he is really angling for longer.

Not a shock, really, as Bojo’s career cannot outlast the rona.

142987 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ovis, 5, #1025 of 2914 🔗

Does ‘6 months’ really mean ‘until we have a vaccine we can convince you to accept?’

143011 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Carrie, 3, #1026 of 2914 🔗

My thoughts exactly. Q1 2021 deployment here we come, to be distributed by the Army no doubt.

143265 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ovis, 2, #1027 of 2914 🔗

He could well be gone by Christmas.

143061 ▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Recusant, 3, #1028 of 2914 🔗

Not dozens…. THOUSANDS.

Millions of people’s entire social structure – on which they depend for support, sanity, edification and reasons to carry on breathing – has been destroyed at the stroke of a pen.

143103 ▶▶ davews, replying to Recusant, 3, #1029 of 2914 🔗

We have a church business meeting tomorrow. With at least another six months of this nonsense and unable to have anything like normal services I can very much see us not being around next Easter.

142974 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 13, #1030 of 2914 🔗

I think the dam might be finally starting to break, lots of negative comments in the Media on Witty & Valance’s prophecy of doom yesterday.

They must know this isn’t going to go exponential and they want to claim the upcoming restirctions as the cause of the small hump of Covid-19 deaths we’re going to get and use it to vindicate their position.

Personally they can all go and f**k themselves.

I hear London is nice this time of year. Day trip on 26th Sept anyone? 😉

143014 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NonCompliant, 4, #1031 of 2914 🔗

I’m hoping there will be a lot more people there than on the 19th, NC!

143028 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1032 of 2914 🔗

and more Police and if I’m reading this right, the Army in reserve

143263 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1033 of 2914 🔗

All the more reason to go.

142975 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 40, #1034 of 2914 🔗

Here’s what I think is the most crucial point to emphasise to pro-lockdown people:

The lockdown can never logically end. We can argue forever about exponential rises and so on, but cold, hard, logic cannot be argued with.

Fact: false positives mean that even when the virus is gone completely, positive tests will still be recorded. And local variations in testing will produce ‘surges’ and ‘spikes’. This is a mathematical certainty. We are already at zero infections – to any sensible range of uncertainty using the available tests, but because the government has never defined the end point, we can never declare the epidemic over. The government will always be “seeing” a second wave.

Fact: the herd immunity threshold is not a well-defined figure, no matter what Neil Ferguson says. Antibody testing will not necessarily ever show the population reaching Ferguson’s SIR model-based herd immunity threshold. There are other forms of immunity, including partial immunity which mean that the seroprevalence may stick at 20% or whatever.

Fact: there is no guarantee of a vaccine ever being developed. Even if there is, it is unlikely to be 100% effective. And even if it were, the above facts would mean that it wasn’t the silver bullet that people think it is.

Fact: Matt Hancock and Grant Shapps have both shown themselves to be ignorant of what the FPR is, and what it means. Grant Shapps even thinks it’s funny. If this is the general level of intelligence of the government then the government is not receiving ‘advice’ from the scientists as it claims; it is effectively taking instructions from them. And the ‘scientists’ were not voted in democratically, are unaccountable, have agendas, political biases and financial interests.

So to all those people going round in masks and imagining that it’s the youngsters on Bournemouth beach that are keeping this dragging on: you’re wrong. In fact, the youngsters proved that the epidemic was over, but the government cannot, will not, allow the epidemic to end. EVER .

142990 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1035 of 2914 🔗

Correct

143007 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1036 of 2914 🔗

Excellent analysis. Far too well constructed to waste on the undead, they will not be able to comprehend your arguments.

It was clear to me from the very start that lockdown had no exit strategy. I believe this was the purpose, although others on here may disagree.

The only ways out of this are total enslavement, total collapse or total rebellion.

143306 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Barney McGrew, #1037 of 2914 🔗

That’s what I explained to my MP, but he seems perfectly happy with that.

142980 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 3, #1038 of 2914 🔗

Merry Xmas everyone……

142982 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Alan P, 3, #1039 of 2914 🔗

Happy Easter as well

142981 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #1040 of 2914 🔗

I’ve just been on the DM to test the feeling, I can’t stand it but needs be. A stupid idiot was saying that we all need to listen to the government, and if we had all followed the advice in the first place then we wouldn’t be in this position still fighting this killer disease. My response was, what advice was that, eat out to help out, go back to work, get back on public transport?. I mentioned the sea of masks everywhere and what good have they done. It is still odd on there, some sceptic remarks will get lots of positive votes but then again so do some we are all doomed ones!. We are all doomed but not from bloody corona.

143141 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #1041 of 2914 🔗

They’re not idiots unfortunately but paid infiltrators to corrupt your message and continue spreading the narrative of the Psychopaths

142985 stewart, replying to stewart, 10, #1042 of 2914 🔗

This is what it must feel like to be trapped in North Korea.

142989 ▶▶ Olive, replying to stewart, 9, #1043 of 2914 🔗

genuinely starting to hyperventilate……. please – someone – how do we act now to stop this utter madness??????

143006 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Olive, 13, #1044 of 2914 🔗

I will continue to ignore all this nonsense

143053 ▶▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to JulieR, 5, #1045 of 2914 🔗

How should one go about doing that as one’s mortgage goes unpaid, children go unfed and health issues go untreated?

How long do you think you can continue to enjoy the luxury of ignoring it?

143066 ▶▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 7, #1046 of 2914 🔗

I meant I would continue to ignore mask demands.
But you are right we cannot ignore what’s happening
I went to Trafalgar Square last Saturday and will go again this Saturday.
I will keep speaking to people and give them facts.

143241 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JulieR, #1047 of 2914 🔗

Be careful Julie. I’m expecting this coming Saturday could make last Saturday appear quiet. Either that or everybody stays away :o((

143479 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to JulieR, #1048 of 2914 🔗

Good for you! I went to the first one and I’ll be going again this Saturday.

143164 ▶▶▶ James, replying to Olive, 1, #1049 of 2914 🔗

Make your exhales very slow and long. It will help.

143084 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to stewart, 2, #1050 of 2914 🔗

You might actually have more freedom in North Korea than you do here now.

143473 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Chicot, #1051 of 2914 🔗

Read a book or two about life in NK, then come back to me on that.

143136 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to stewart, 4, #1052 of 2914 🔗

With more food and electricity, at least for now.

142986 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 14, #1053 of 2914 🔗

5th November coming up. Remember Guy Fawkes?

143015 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Alan P, 4, #1054 of 2914 🔗

How many Boris’s on the fire this year?..

143046 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Arnie, 7, #1055 of 2914 🔗

The actual one. No substitutions allowed.

143198 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Alan P, #1056 of 2914 🔗

By then we will have the army on the streets hunting any dissenters down like dogs..The N Ireland Troubles will look like a fucking picnic compared to what they do will do here..

143235 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Thomas_E, #1057 of 2914 🔗

Not enough of them.

142992 Allen, replying to Allen, 9, #1058 of 2914 🔗

Just to state the obvious, your clown car well-manicured hooligan Reps over there in the UK got the latest bogeyman, Spanish “cases and hospitalizations”- shriek!- completely backwards.

It’s simply a matter of A) More testing; B) Now testing everyone who FIRST enters the hospital for ANY reason; and 3) Using amped up cycles and poor protocols with the hospital PCR tests that reveal all sorts of viral particles.

In short all f**king lies yet again from the Covid Cultists.

143004 ▶▶ James, replying to Allen, 8, #1059 of 2914 🔗

I don’t think it is a cult. It is a well thought out plan. Can we please ditch the word conspiracy.

143119 ▶▶▶ Allen, replying to James, #1060 of 2914 🔗

Agree

143149 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to James, #1061 of 2914 🔗

Yep plan from now on – or conspiracy factist.

143009 mhcp, 19, #1062 of 2914 🔗

This to me is a hate crime against everything I believe in and was trained in.

143012 EssieSW, replying to EssieSW, 18, #1063 of 2914 🔗

The casual mention of bringing in the army to relieve the police

143558 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to EssieSW, #1064 of 2914 🔗

The army despite the best efforts of the social revolutionaries is still a patriotic organisation.The police are not.Could be his undoing

143013 D B, replying to D B, 22, #1065 of 2914 🔗

LABOUR FUCKING SUPPORT THIS BULLSHIT?! Where are the OPPOSITION?!

650 sheep in there, no wonder the 65m in the UK have become the same.

To borrow a phrase from Stormzy (who I never thought I would share an opinion with on politics) “Fuck the Governement and fuck Boris.”

143429 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to D B, 3, #1066 of 2914 🔗

Exactly there is no opposition. Labour is a disgrace

143016 Simon, replying to Simon, 35, #1067 of 2914 🔗

That’s it, I am really angry now. Boris can fuck right off the useless fat cunt.

143024 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Simon, 10, #1068 of 2914 🔗

Not subtle, but I get your point..

143017 Terr B, 1, #1069 of 2914 🔗

Has anyone done the maths on the “prediction” / Crystal ball gazing of the CSA/CMO yesterday. If we were to reach 50k cases per day by 13 October there would be 350k per week & 2.78m P.w if they keep doubling by the start of November. The entire population would have had the virus by c3rd December This surely cannot be right

143018 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 14, #1070 of 2914 🔗

The madness has infected more people than the virus. We are more at risk from authority than any disease. I really can’t think of what action we need to take to counter all of this. Any ideas?

143062 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Alan P, 12, #1071 of 2914 🔗

Lots of idea’s: mass civil disobedience, marches, riots, bring it on. Fuck Boris. Fuck the government.

143152 ▶▶ James, replying to Alan P, #1072 of 2914 🔗

Find a Way to shut down the BBC. Send 10000 to Downing Street to arrest Boris and his friends.

143229 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Alan P, 1, #1073 of 2914 🔗

Revolution is the usual endgame.

143020 stewart, 13, #1074 of 2914 🔗

Ok, so I’ll show you the trick again and see if you can catch it this time:

Here is my doomsday prediction. Lots of people are going to die, yeah?
Ok, now I put these measures in place. See?
And hey presto, the deaths disappear…

Wow…. Magic!

143021 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 2, #1075 of 2914 🔗

Could European countries be falsifying their data to encourage a hard lockdown for UK to throw a spanner in the Brexit works. It seems obvious Doris is blindly following Spain and France

Just saying…. haven’t had any lunch yet so my blood sugar could be playing havoc with my thinking.

143032 ▶▶ Julian, replying to stefarm, 8, #1076 of 2914 🔗

I am sure the PM is capable of messing this up all on his own

143035 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #1077 of 2914 🔗

Must be my lack of lunch then

143054 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 1, #1078 of 2914 🔗

blood sugar could be playing havoc with my thinking”

Evidently.

143023 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 17, #1079 of 2914 🔗

It’s official. It’s a coup.

143030 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Achilles, 1, #1080 of 2914 🔗

What have I missed (I know it’s a coup)

143034 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Achilles, 15, #1081 of 2914 🔗

Flu d’etat !

143025 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 15, #1082 of 2914 🔗

Johnson says the government will “continue to put its arms around the country” –
a typo? he meant army.

143051 ▶▶ RickH, replying to godowneasy, 5, #1083 of 2914 🔗

Whilst putting a gun to it’s head?

143088 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to godowneasy, 4, #1084 of 2914 🔗

Whichever it is, it is without my consent

143116 ▶▶ James, replying to godowneasy, #1085 of 2914 🔗

Not a typo. It is deliberate. Hypnotists use that technique all the time. It is the same with the “ Rule of 6”. It is a deliberate double entendre.

143029 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 21, #1086 of 2914 🔗

“Allow growth to continue”.

He has not been down my High Street, if he sees 25 or so closed shops has growth, I can recommend a good optician.

The theatre in town has been closed since March, with no sign of it reopening, the seasonal pantomime is the annual event which keeps it open through the year. Without that event it will probably close.

Just walking down the High Street, anyone can see the footfall is way down.

Any form of entertainment which relies on an audience is doomed, be it sport, comedy, performance, motorsport etc.

My mental state has been bad for a few days, that has done zero to help.

143049 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1087 of 2914 🔗

Indeed. Drove past our favourite (and very popular) restaurant yesterday.

Boarded up.

143112 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Dave #KBF, #1088 of 2914 🔗

They are printing money faster than we could possibly hope to create value (while locked down or not), thus guaranteeing debasement of the currency.

143223 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tee Ell, #1089 of 2914 🔗

Inflation and stagnation. The worst of all worlds. If you have a pension, a few years of inflation will render it worthless.

143031 stewart, replying to stewart, 9, #1090 of 2914 🔗

Boris Johnson: The only way out is a massive expansion of testing and tracing.

So, there it is. Mass surveillance is the end game.

143044 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to stewart, 5, #1091 of 2914 🔗

Then he will say: the only way out is having vaccine

143060 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to JulieR, 4, #1092 of 2914 🔗

No, the vaccine is not the end game. It’s just a part.
The real endgame is total surveillance.
We won’t be able to do anything without being previously cleared by the health authorities.

143091 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to stewart, 2, #1093 of 2914 🔗

The surveillance end-game has been obvious since at least April. I knew when I started to hear about health passports and that coupled with the fact that they are rolling out 5G, that everything else was just a tip-toe towards it.

143550 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stewart, 1, #1094 of 2914 🔗

Vaccine is the key.Surveillance will be built around that.Read up on embedded tattoos that can be scanned to verify your vaccine history.No vaccine,no partaking of ‘normal life’

143632 ▶▶▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to stewart, #1095 of 2914 🔗

AKA The Joint Biosecurity Centre. It has a nice dictatorial ring, doesn’t it?

143036 Kate, replying to Kate, 13, #1096 of 2914 🔗

It is a coup backed up by a police state. Stop trying to rationalise the justifications.

143045 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 4, #1097 of 2914 🔗

Permanent testing and mass surveillance ahead.

143038 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 25, #1098 of 2914 🔗

The epitaph of the UK has just been read.

In all of history has the declaration of martial law ever been accepted in such a crestfallen and supine way? Unreal.

I have just said a prayer of apology to all my ancestors. We are not worthy of all your endeavour and sacrifice. Your legacy, a thousand years in the making, has been obliterated in 6 months by the worst so-called people that have ever lived on these islands.

143042 ▶▶ Olive, replying to Richard O, 8, #1099 of 2914 🔗

Indeed – thank god my grandfather is dead. this is everything he was against.

143052 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Richard O, 8, #1100 of 2914 🔗

Melbourne / Victoria coming to a place near you very soon.

143140 ▶▶ James, replying to Richard O, #1101 of 2914 🔗

It’s not over yet but it will be if enough of us do not act quickly. Once the army are in place this will quickly become a bloody mess.

143172 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to James, 1, #1102 of 2914 🔗

Don’t be too sure of that. They failed to hold on to Northern Ireland.

143203 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1103 of 2914 🔗

And that took 30 years of attrition ending in a stalemate, with the wounds still not yet healed a further 20 years on.

143213 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, #1104 of 2914 🔗

But they still failed to hold it.

143463 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1105 of 2914 🔗

In Northern Ireland, Britain did not have right on its side. Face it. Northern Ireland is still Ireland, prefixed or not.

143206 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to James, 3, #1106 of 2914 🔗

Veterans were in Trafalger Square last week. Not insignificant.

143215 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #1107 of 2914 🔗

There may well be a lot more this weekend.

143039 Sam Vimes, 11, #1108 of 2914 🔗

So that’s it. Using outright lies to crush us into our homes. Not news to us, I know, but it was never clearer.

143047 Sarigan, 4, #1109 of 2914 🔗

https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1308349010181226497?s=09

The latest data relating to the triage of COVID-19 symptoms through NHS Pathways 111, 999 and 111 online. 73,543 triages/journeys were completed since last Friday, of which 37% (27,030) were people aged 0-18yrs. The 7-day average has continued to decrease for the last 4 days.

143048 DRW, 5, #1110 of 2914 🔗

I can’t bear to listen- just thinking about the Clown Show stars makes me sick.

143050 Moomin, 16, #1111 of 2914 🔗

Oh boy, what the heck is Boris taking? This is unbelievable…oh wait, no it isn’t! And Starmer fully supporting it. Hopeless. No government, no opposition spells disaster and tyranny.

143055 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 18, #1112 of 2914 🔗

Freedom was nice while it lasted, obviously it is now over.

Some much for our ancestors fighting for these freedoms.

143427 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1113 of 2914 🔗

I wouldn’t have called what we had freedom, maybe just day release.

143056 NickR, replying to NickR, 16, #1114 of 2914 🔗

An obeisance is an act , usually physical, showing dutiful obedience. A supplicant might perform obeisance , touching his face to the ground, before humbly asking for help. Obeisance is often used in historical or religious contexts and often refers to bowing or kneeling.
Mask wearing is an act of obeisance a form of abasement.

143065 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to NickR, 8, #1115 of 2914 🔗

Troo dat. That’s why I don’t do it.

143142 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #1116 of 2914 🔗

I haven’t done it. I don’t do it. I will never do it.

143063 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 16, #1117 of 2914 🔗

BBC headline news December 25th 2020 – “Family of seven shot dead by police for flouting COVID restrictions”

143069 ▶▶ D B, replying to godowneasy, 5, #1118 of 2914 🔗

“Family of 7 prevented from spreading Covid-19 to the populace”

143078 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to D B, 4, #1119 of 2914 🔗

This police action has saved their granny from dying of the disease.

143079 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #1120 of 2914 🔗

*Small print* The officers in question shot dead the family of 7, after a tip off from their uninvited Aunt. They left the property to the cheers and applause of neighbours.

143086 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to D B, 3, #1121 of 2914 🔗

‘The bodies of the seven criminals will be hung up in the street as a warning to other thought criminals’

143093 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Paul, 3, #1122 of 2914 🔗

… luckily the turkey was saved and will be shared out amongst the dead family’s neighbours.

143108 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1123 of 2914 🔗

No sorry the turkey came into contact with the cook so will need to be buried in a 6ft hole and filled in with concrete

143083 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to godowneasy, 6, #1124 of 2914 🔗

“Army heroes crush rebel activists”.

143064 Olive, replying to Olive, 12, #1125 of 2914 🔗

Someone’s harmless cough is someone else’s death knell??? He really just said that…..

143080 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Olive, 9, #1126 of 2914 🔗

Beat me to it Olive. Totally he said it. Our human experience is altered until we rid government of this evil cabal.

143067 RickH, 19, #1127 of 2914 🔗

If Mr Toad can get away with this shite, then those who support it all deserve everything they get.

Bur I, and others with intelligence don’t.

I feel for those shop workers being forced into harmful measures with masks – a complete reversal of the basic medical principle of ‘Do No Harm’.

The Goebbels and Mengele Memorial Brigade show their true evil colours.

143071 Jules, replying to Jules, 18, #1129 of 2914 🔗

Boris Johnson is a gigantic, babbling arse.
I feel better for that.

143097 ▶▶ James, replying to Jules, 1, #1130 of 2914 🔗

Just a puppet I fear.

143106 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to James, 2, #1131 of 2914 🔗

An arse puppet?

143159 ▶▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Jules, #1132 of 2914 🔗

Well presumably not an arse bandit. Just a shallow lying untrustworthy serial philanderer who probably struggles with making 2+2=4 – as clearly his ministers do.

143072 stewart, replying to stewart, 31, #1133 of 2914 🔗

Can everyone stop talking about the f**ing pubs?

Boris Johnson has just announced that the only way out of this is a massive expansion of test and trace. He has just announced that our freedom to live normal lives depends on total surveillance of the populations health.

For fuck sake can everyone wake up?

Media, stop talking about the stupid pubs!!

143094 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to stewart, 8, #1134 of 2914 🔗

The pubs are the distraction as you have rightly identified.

143114 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, 6, #1135 of 2914 🔗

No … I-the pubs are a symbol of people living their lives in society. Everything else flows from that

143131 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to RickH, 5, #1136 of 2914 🔗

But don’t you see the trick? Squeeze the population so that it accepts whatever exit you offer.

It’s how gangster shake people down. And it’s what the government is setting up. Make people despair so that they will accept mass surveillance in exchange for a return to “normality”

143176 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to RickH, 3, #1137 of 2914 🔗

I am really upset about the pubs. We have had them since medieval times, and probably longer. They are the focus of community. Our pubs are historic, some near me are very old buildings and have been drinking resorts for centuries.
.

143074 Basics, replying to Basics, 17, #1138 of 2914 🔗

Boris just now: “because we know your harmless cough can be someone else’s death now…”

And there ends all human life. We are to exist at his and his puppet masters whim.

143085 ▶▶ Jules, replying to Basics, 5, #1139 of 2914 🔗

Only breathing in would help stop the spread of germs.

143105 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 4, #1140 of 2914 🔗

Can’t people recognise a lying, narcissistic Cupid Stunt when they see one?

143128 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 4, #1141 of 2914 🔗

It’s a very good point. He completely fits the bill in stereotype. And statesman lustre he ever had is long gone. Take his suit off him put him on a bar stool in your local I guarantee people woukd be saying who’s that annoying c**t at the bar?

143133 ▶▶▶ James, replying to RickH, #1142 of 2914 🔗

Apparently not.

143210 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to RickH, #1143 of 2914 🔗

Years of looking in the mirror has made them immune to that.

143130 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Basics, 1, #1144 of 2914 🔗

We have known that since the first village was built. And of course every village needs an idiot.

143158 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to redbirdpete, #1145 of 2914 🔗

Since the first shindig down the Henge…

143338 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #1146 of 2914 🔗

I haven’t heard anyone cough in the last 6 months

144145 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stefarm, #1147 of 2914 🔗

One of the admin staff at my dentist today. He also kept touching his mask. Then one of the hygienists when they were cleaning my teeth. Of course, I could understand coughing when you have to wear a respirator all day at work.

I had to force myself not to break out in hysterical laughter considering the dystopian scene around me.

143077 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #1148 of 2914 🔗

Hello… I’m listening live to BJ. Only just got online. What’s the summary restrictions please? Thanks

143125 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Country Mumkin, 13, #1149 of 2914 🔗

It doesn’t matter, ignore them all! Fuck them all!!!!

143191 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #1150 of 2914 🔗

Being able to ignore it is a luxury that will become increasingly scarce to people who can’t pay their mortgage, feed their kids, get their health issues dealt with.

Enjoy it while you can.

143520 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1151 of 2914 🔗

I’ve ignored every single ridiculous restriction.What I can’t ignore is the destruction of my livelihood.The destruction of my children’s education.
I thought that with the children going back to school we would have some semblance of normality but they have destroyed any hope of that.
The government have decided to pursue a scorched earth policy and unless we fight back now there will be nothing left in six months

143170 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #1152 of 2914 🔗

Summary: We will eliminate covid AKA the common cold even and especially if that means killing you all to do so.

(Has anyone pointed out to these idiots that the only way to eliminate a virus is also the only way to create carbon neutrality – I. E. Kill everybody?)

143082 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #1153 of 2914 🔗

Well that is the end of the capitalism experiment.

What shall we try next…

143117 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1154 of 2914 🔗

I fancy we use conkers for currency and retreat back to caves.

143118 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1155 of 2914 🔗

a slow death?

143087 SmokeandMirrors, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 28, #1156 of 2914 🔗

This is theatre – just theatre. We had the warm-up act yesterday after days of sinister mood music.
Conjure up a massive crisis – which wasn’t there a week ago and probably isn’t there now.
Impose ‘new’ sanctions – which sound awful but which aren’t.
Stretch the horizon to 6 months.
Say it’s our fault if it all goes wrong.
Crisis – which wasn’t – goes away. Government saves the day. Etc. Etc.
It’s theatre folks. Take heart.

143095 ▶▶ wayno, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 12, #1157 of 2914 🔗

I wish i was as hopeful as you, im afriad this wont be over until the health passports and complete surveillance is imposed.

143126 ▶▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to wayno, 4, #1158 of 2914 🔗

Just throw the goddam phones away.

143129 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to redbirdpete, 3, #1159 of 2914 🔗

You really think a plan that has been in place for years can be foiled by not carrying a mobile phone around?

144089 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to jb12, #1160 of 2914 🔗

Well it might help….There will people out there shouting REVOLUTION one minute and then will stand there filming it when the jack boot comes down on their face!

143096 ▶▶ Julian, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 20, #1161 of 2914 🔗

Take heart that we have six months of economic ruin, a police state, nappy wearing, no social life, education ruined, on the basis of a fucking lie, to save face for evil politicians? And at the end of six months, it will just carry on.
No thanks.

143120 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 10, #1162 of 2914 🔗

Now we know he is a Nazi.

143178 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1163 of 2914 🔗

Worse than that a not very bright nazi.

143098 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 6, #1164 of 2914 🔗

Problem is that the economy is shrinking day by day, whilst Johnson and his advisors appear not to have a care in the world.

143111 ▶▶▶ SmokeandMirrors, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1165 of 2914 🔗

They certainly do have a couple of overriding cares. How to stay in power and how to avoid blame

143107 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 5, #1166 of 2914 🔗

What’s left of the country in six months time ???

143115 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NonCompliant, 3, #1167 of 2914 🔗

Nothing. Emigrate, if you can.

143189 ▶▶▶▶ James, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #1168 of 2914 🔗

I think you will find soon enough that there is nowhere to run to. I don’t think the U.K. will be fundamentally different. The implementation will be different in each country but it will essentially be the same.

143500 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to James, 1, #1169 of 2914 🔗

I agree.Nowhere to run.

144132 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nick Rose, #1170 of 2914 🔗

Where to? I’m looking for realistic suggestions. But I doubt any place else will be better in the long run. Even Sweden.

143113 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 8, #1171 of 2914 🔗

This makes sense to me. The whole public health approach is to predict the worst so that reality is never as bad as the prediction. It’s a pathetic and costly strategy – but one which the gov can claim shows their measures worked. This is what the country has come to. Bunch of back-covering idiots.

143121 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to ScooBieDee, 6, #1172 of 2914 🔗

They are much worse than idiots

143146 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 3, #1173 of 2914 🔗

One of the genuine issues we face , certainly I face, is our language isn’t enough to express the lows of this. Maybe a bard can really get that grim gritty puking vile disgust across. But for your average joe like me it is hard to describe in conversation the utterness of the thing.

143156 ▶▶▶▶▶ David, replying to Basics, 1, #1174 of 2914 🔗

You’ve done well there though!

143384 ▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to ScooBieDee, 3, #1175 of 2914 🔗

That’s exactly it. So when mid-October (or whenever) comes and there are not 50,000 “cases” a day then it will be clearly shown that today’s carefully crafted and measured restrictions worked a treat and the government can then bask in the reflected glory of it all.
It’s a clever ploy.

143446 ▶▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Locked down and out, 2, #1176 of 2914 🔗

Thats just a recipe for rinse and repeat restrictions.

143143 ▶▶ SmokeandMirrors, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 2, #1177 of 2914 🔗

Pick a number – añy number. Six (months) will do. Wait a few weeks and, guess what, I’ve turned it into three. These are politicians and acting is what they’re good at. (Little else!).
It’s all theatre.

143166 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 1, #1178 of 2914 🔗

Yes, Christmas miraculously delivered and Bozo is a hero.

143196 ▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Bumble, 8, #1179 of 2914 🔗

Nope, never that now!

From this point on, well in fact since April, whatever he does now, he cannot and will not be forgiven.

He could put a stop it all tomorrow, makes no difference, he had his chance, he’s had many chances, he blew it every time.

We thought May was bad, but boy has Boris outgunned her or what! Worst PM this country has ever had by a country mile.

2020 – the year this country and most of the world it seems collectively lost its mind

143248 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 2, #1180 of 2914 🔗

Do you really think they will let up? If they were going to let up, they had many chances. Assume the worst now.

143187 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 4, #1181 of 2914 🔗

That may be their reasoning. But I cannot trust them. This is March 1939.

143358 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to SmokeandMirrors, 2, #1182 of 2914 🔗

agree, as previously stated it’s all about the coronavirus act renewal. If this was really as serious as Whitty and Vallance said yesterday how comes the vulnerable are not asked to shield?

143089 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 16, #1183 of 2914 🔗

So the initial “flatten the curve” was to last 3 weeks; it has lasted 6 months.
The latest restrictions might last 6 months. Extrapolate that! 26 years?

143101 ▶▶ D B, replying to Fiat, 6, #1184 of 2914 🔗

Don’t forget to double it every 7 days.

144127 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Fiat, #1185 of 2914 🔗

I won’t live long enough to see the end of it then since I’m in my 60s.

143099 Liam, 11, #1186 of 2914 🔗

We’re governed at all levels by sadistic, perverted criminals.

143100 RickH, replying to RickH, 13, #1187 of 2914 🔗

It’s interesting to look at the signatories to the two opposing letters issued by scientists (some more ‘scientific’ than others.

The Levitt/Heneghan/Gupta letter is backed by a broad range of academics rooted in hard science and research

The opposition comes from signatories heavily weighted towards the ‘Public Health’ and Global Health initiatives that have suddenly had an opportunity to massage egos by poncing around dictating their own fixations.

Now – maybe I’m cynical – but it’s worth a look. Perhaps others can deiscern a pattern here.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/22/scientists-disagree-over-targeted-versus-nationwide-measures-to-tackle-covid

143137 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RickH, #1188 of 2914 🔗

Quite a few from Edinburgh – aligned to Devi Sridhar and the paymasters. A few of the others are self-professed Marxists.

143185 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #1189 of 2914 🔗

Please do not use labels like marxism. We are facing fascism.

143192 ▶▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Kate, 5, #1190 of 2914 🔗

Two cheeks of the same backside

143221 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Lucan Grey, 3, #1191 of 2914 🔗

The whole Marxism v. Fascism thing is exhausting.

THEY. ARE. THE
SAME. THING.

143230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #1192 of 2914 🔗

I mean isn’t the clue in the title-

*National* *Socialist* Party. Not so oxymoronic in practice.

143195 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1193 of 2914 🔗

Forget the Marxist red herring. Marx was an awkward and contradictory contrarian and essentially libertarian.

143491 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 1, #1194 of 2914 🔗

Dictatorship of the proletariat anyone ?

143153 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to RickH, #1195 of 2914 🔗

Aren’t they part of the covid elimination cult?

143102 Stuart C, 1, #1196 of 2914 🔗

Why will these fucking politicians not demand that Boris states explicitly when he will be satisfied that this ‘crisis’ is over? All Boris has said so far is ‘drive down the R rate’ ‘reduce cases’ and ‘save the NHS’. There is absolutely no solid objective.

143104 4096, 9, #1197 of 2914 🔗

So the Covid restrictions might last until March/April next year which precisely when we might be having a seasonal (the virus is endemic) resurgence – what a stroke of genius. Lockdown forever!

143110 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 15, #1198 of 2914 🔗

Remember: Tiananmen Trafalgar Square, noon 26th September. Let’s make it a big one!

143349 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1199 of 2914 🔗

don’t say that. Last weekend was terrifying in how the police could stir up trouble without provocation

143122 RickH, 5, #1200 of 2914 🔗

The Luftwaffe would be proud of what Mr Toad and Co. have done to this country.

Anniversary of the Battle of Britain? No – it’s the reverse ferret (or skunk).

143127 NY, 4, #1201 of 2914 🔗

What an absolute disgrace this is.

143134 Kate, replying to Kate, 9, #1202 of 2914 🔗

Given that this is a GLOBAL COUP, how does emigrating to Sweden help?

Maybe the Swedes will just get a gentler form of what everyone is destined for.

The Nordic countries are very socially conformist, and the swedes already have gone cash free.
Their government does not have the task of imposing the rapid change that ours has to impose. I strongly suspect it will end up the same everywhere.

The Swedes were quite happy to frame Julian Assange.
Neoliberalism with a gentler face.

143160 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Kate, 7, #1203 of 2914 🔗

You’re right. The ‘mood’ or ‘cultural’ answer to this comes from countries with experience of systemic fascism. So, Germany, Italy, France. Eastern Europe. Whether past, or current. Past obviously better cause they don’t wanna go there again. But dictators are giving good corona game because they know dictatorships can’t survive crushing their populations for long. So yeah.
Belarusians out on the streets apparently protesting their dictator, but we in ‘democracies’ are in a very similar position trying to protest ours 😂 — Except with LESS freedom to do so!!

143182 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Farinances, 3, #1204 of 2914 🔗

Nice to see you back!

143209 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Poppy, 2, #1205 of 2914 🔗

I’ve missed you all!
Well. I haven’t really cause I’ve been reading all the time!

Like corona, I’m never really gone…….

143458 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Farinances, #1206 of 2914 🔗

But history does show that they can get away with it for decades before the reckoning comes.

143798 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kate, 1, #1207 of 2914 🔗

Sweden is *not* cash free – I live here and we still use cash, thank you!

Nor are we chipped – another mistruth that I keep seeing on Twitter.

143836 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Carrie, #1208 of 2914 🔗

Thanks for the correction. How has this story got about?

143138 redbirdpete, replying to redbirdpete, 20, #1209 of 2914 🔗

The government has clearly been overcome with collective insanity. The methods are different but this could end up killing people in WW2 proportions. How the French Connection UK do we stop it? I’ve two members of my family not getting cancer treatment, i myself am three months overdue a bowel cancer test, my cousin’s daughter’s MS is going untreated. This is actually heading for genocide.

143225 ▶▶ James, replying to redbirdpete, #1210 of 2914 🔗

We have all sat idly by while official neglect has killed thousands of people. Time to stop feeling sorry for ourselves. Not even the army can stop a proper revolution.

143233 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to redbirdpete, 4, #1211 of 2914 🔗

Genocide is the bottom line here, and if you add up the figures from all over the world, it will be by far the worst ever in history. And that is BEFORE the vaccine.

143451 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Richard O, #1212 of 2914 🔗

I can’t be alone in suspecting that most of us will be long dead before any kind of reckoning on this comes to pass.

143258 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to redbirdpete, 3, #1213 of 2914 🔗

I don’t know what to do. But I am very sorry to hear about your family circumstances.

143405 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to redbirdpete, 1, #1214 of 2914 🔗

I would contact my local media and try to get them interested in the damage done to individuals such as in your family. It would help if the media took an interest in the collateral damage caused by the lockdown and withdrawal of NHS services. I appreciate it would not be easy since nearly all mainstream media have bought into the official covid narrative. Wishing the best for you and yours.

143139 Hester, replying to Hester, 3, #1215 of 2914 🔗

Has anyone noticed that Johnson bears a remarkable resemblence to simple Jack as played by Ben stiller in Tropic Thunder. I have tried to pull a meme together, but I am really bad at photoshopping etc, I wanted to have Johnsons face superimposed on Simple jack , and the strapline , Simple Johnson, Never go Full RetardCan anyone provide, it could be circulated widely then. The bloke is a despot and needs to be ridiculed.
Also Whitty looks like Morph, the plasticine creature from Ardman lots of creativity could be used there too.

143144 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Hester, 5, #1216 of 2914 🔗

I can’t say that I’d noticed, to busy imagining a red dot on his forehead…….

143181 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1217 of 2914 🔗

I find it can help to purge the anger/hatred if you visualize what might follow in an imaginary scenario as graphically as possible 😉

143205 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to DomW, 1, #1218 of 2914 🔗

I haven’t got past the image of his head exploding when the .50 calibre round finds it’s mark.

143442 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Winston Smith, #1219 of 2914 🔗

Did he have a hospital bed conversion to Hinduism then?

143154 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Hester, 2, #1220 of 2914 🔗

Harry Enfield’s Tim Nice but Dim perhaps

143145 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #1221 of 2914 🔗

Just avoided a question about ‘will you commit to discussing with the house before any full lockdown in future’. He didn’t answer it… just a load of guff about ‘getting through it together’. Total avoidance.

143183 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1222 of 2914 🔗

The lockdown is planned for October – as revealed in, I think, a London Calling(?) podcast back in May..? The story was that a minister’s spouse had let it slip, I think. At the time, of course, it seemed a bit more controversial than it does it now, because most people thought that relaxation of the measures was inevitable over time.

143200 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1223 of 2914 🔗

Just wheel out the pet experts to lie again, ‘more cases’, then put the boot in.

143340 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Barney McGrew, #1224 of 2914 🔗

the podcast is still available-still think this is smoke and mirrors to get the coronavirus act renewal over the line

143437 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Barney McGrew, #1225 of 2914 🔗

My company was advised by its govt liaison people in May to start planning for a second lockdown in October.

143157 matt, replying to matt, 2, #1226 of 2914 🔗

Does anyone know when this latest pile of steaming turds comes into force? I had vaguely thought it was to be from Thursday, but I didn’t catch Bozo saying anything specific and the MSM are inevitably silent on the matter

143161 ▶▶ stewart, replying to matt, 1, #1227 of 2914 🔗

Thursday

143165 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to stewart, 1, #1228 of 2914 🔗

Thanks. Might as well go to the pub for the last time this evening then.

143193 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, 1, #1229 of 2914 🔗

Was thinking just this morning, of going this afternoon, just in case. Now it looks like it really will be the last time. I certainly won’t be wearing a mask ‘unless seated’.

143216 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sam Vimes, #1230 of 2914 🔗

I would love to go this afternoon but none of the decent pubs near me have got round to opening before 5 yet.

143333 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to matt, #1231 of 2914 🔗

most in my neighbourhood are shut by 10 anyway

143179 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stewart, 1, #1232 of 2914 🔗

All of it? I’ve only seen it written down for the 10pm curfew. There’s usually a gap of a few days before they do all of it.

143167 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #1233 of 2914 🔗

There’s nothing we can do about this. But in the middle of a nightmare, we are some of the luckiest people in the country.

Yes, we suffer the coming financial, social, health catastrophes with everyone else. BUT, at least, we don’t suffer from the hysterical fear of the virus. We can laugh at the pro-lockdown people – they are bringing this onto themselves and we can take great satisfaction in that. We can enjoy their puzzlement, dawning realisation, fear, anger, frustration and eventual enlightenment. And in the meantime we can secretly enjoy the comedy of their fungal lung infections and mask-induced facial boils.

143174 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1234 of 2914 🔗

No. I can’t take ‘great satisfaction’ in saps being conned

143175 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #1235 of 2914 🔗

Not so sure of that. Yes, we don’t have any fear of the virus but we have great fear of the tyranny being imposed on us. The sheep can dream about everything being wonderful when the vaccine arrives. We know that will just be a continuation of the nightmare.

143184 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #1236 of 2914 🔗

Not much consolation. So we’re all together with the rest of the sheep in line for the abattoir, but we know we’re heading for the chop and the rest don’t? Great.

143252 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1237 of 2914 🔗

I agree. I have been trying to be understanding of the hysteria in everyone around me in exactly these terms. These people are genuinely frightened. They can’t think because of it. In contrast, I am not frightened and I can think. At the moment it feels like cold comfort however.

143293 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to Alethea, 3, #1238 of 2914 🔗

I can honestly say that I am calm, relaxed and not stressed. Yes I am angry, very angry but always convert the anger into something useful like peaceful opposition. It helps being retired, living in the country and reasonably financially secure. But I am aware of many others not so fortunate which makes me angrier.Hope that makes sense? Cannot do anything for those who have been terrified by the MSM except be there for them if they ask for help. As for virtue signalling smug gits, just give them the eye and ignore them!

143470 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to William Hand, 1, #1239 of 2914 🔗

Don’t take your financial security for granted. There is a potential here to crash the whole economic system.

143321 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Alethea, 1, #1240 of 2914 🔗

Fear is more contagious.

143273 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1241 of 2914 🔗

Unfortunately, some are forced into wearing face nappies against their will, e.g. in hair salons, or now in shops. Their health could be damaged as they’ve been given little choice.

143401 ▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Barney McGrew, #1242 of 2914 🔗

Eventual enlightenment? I see the drug dealers are still doing a healthy trade where you live.

143168 Paul, replying to Paul, 8, #1243 of 2914 🔗

Surely there must be a group of people,military or police that think this is wrong and have the clout to stop this coup against the country by an out of control government ?.
Perhaps I’ve read too many books and watched too many films in my lifetime but there has to be someone who can rise up,with the manpower and firepower to stop this madness,doesn’t there ?,the SBS,SAS,somebody surely to god !!! or is every last one of our so-called heroes completely brainwashed aswell ?.

This is just the beginning.

143190 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Paul, 14, #1244 of 2914 🔗

You know things are getting bleak when you start hoping for a military coup.

143218 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stewart, 1, #1245 of 2914 🔗

Just put exactly that in a text to a mate.

143234 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to stewart, 1, #1246 of 2914 🔗

I’m almost praying for one now !.

143261 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to stewart, #1247 of 2914 🔗

There were some contemplating it under May’s disastrous premiership and non-handling of Brexit.

143387 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stewart, 2, #1248 of 2914 🔗

We have had the coup.it would technically be a counter coup

143428 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to stewart, #1249 of 2914 🔗

I’ll settle for nothing short of all-out thermonuclear war or an epoch-ending meteor strike.

143217 ▶▶ NY, replying to Paul, 4, #1250 of 2914 🔗

We have to be the heroes. Nobody is going to stand up against the monster unless we start doing it very actively and show that there will be consequences. People in government are comfortable right now and don’t want to step out of line. Every tyrannical regime begins this way.

143249 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Paul, 3, #1251 of 2914 🔗

The military and police have been infiltrated by Common Purpose indoctrination for over 20 years. They hate us, and will gladly follow every order, however outrageous. Afghanistan and Iraq were training for this.

143411 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard O, #1252 of 2914 🔗

I don’t think ‘Common Purpose’ is the key issue. It’s a bit of a UK Column hobby-horse.

I came up against Common Purpose 20 years ago, when I was asked to make an input.

I was highly sceptical about the organisation, and my views haven’t changed (I actually offended the organiser with some sceptical comment about it’s smug Blairite “We know best. Let’s get together’ stuff.”

But the political issues are much wider – its networking is a symptom rather than a cause, in my opinion.

143423 ▶▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to RickH, #1253 of 2914 🔗

At the very least, Common Purpose has been an accelerant and advocate for all the lunatic leftist causes. It’s the establishment advocate for Gramsci.

No-one who’s attended one of their courses in any capacity should be allowed into any position of power or influence. Most should be on the gallows in Parliament Square.

143272 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Paul, #1254 of 2914 🔗

I doubt, despite infiltration at officer level, that the average squaddie will have anything to do with being political police.

143414 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to redbirdpete, #1255 of 2914 🔗

The average squaddie is being gradually replaced by the state’s client class of wimmen, alphabet nutters and other minorities.

Actual people with time-tested British values need no-longer apply.

143296 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Paul, #1256 of 2914 🔗

I think the military are now part of some EU army nowadays. All been happening while the plebs have been buying flowery muzzles

143169 RickH, 14, #1257 of 2914 🔗

For information, I have just sent the following to my MP. Like most of you, I find it hard to contain my anger in reasonably polite language. :

“Dear xxxx

As follow-up to my previous e-mails :

I am reading (with gaping mouth) that the Leader of the Opposition has supported the PM’s latest egregious assaults on the life of the nation that were announced in the HoC today.

We know that there is absolutely no basis for any of these irrational measures in a low incidence, moderate consequence disease.. Worse – impositions such as the demand for all shop workers to wear masks is a flagrant reversal of the basic medical ethic that benefit should observably exceed harm when considering prophylactic measures.

I trust that you and your colleagues in the PLP will exert pressure to steer the Opposition into a more rational course of action instead of humbly mimicking the government’s sinister assault on society.

Or has the role of opposition been abandoned?”

143177 stewart, replying to stewart, 11, #1258 of 2914 🔗

Hearing even sceptical voices speaking publicly about this, it’s interesting how there is a reluctance to admit the virus is actually not particularly dangerous. They invariably put a platitude of some sort about the danger of the virus even if they completely disagree with all the measures.

It’s a bit like politicians in the US knowing that if they even hint at not believing in god they are political toast.

143201 ▶▶ NY, replying to stewart, 4, #1259 of 2914 🔗

It’s a negotiating tactic, you want to strike with something that your opponent agrees with, and once they have the understanding that you’re coming from the same place, they are more willing to listen and won’t think you’re a kook. At least in theory.

Personally, I think people need to stop beating around the bush.

143219 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to NY, 1, #1260 of 2914 🔗

I do too. Specially when the government’s own worst case IFR is 0.4%…

143237 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to stewart, #1261 of 2914 🔗

Yes. Covid is the new state religion.

143180 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1262 of 2914 🔗

I wonder when the announcement will come that the delayed 2020 Olympic Games are going to be completely abandoned?

143214 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1263 of 2914 🔗

Had totally forgotten about the Olympics – though obviously the people who have been training for YEARS will not have…

143394 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Carrie, #1264 of 2914 🔗

My heart does not bleed for them. A great many of them have been living out of our pockets anyway.

143269 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1265 of 2914 🔗

The era of spectator sports is over. All the organisational bodies of every major sport have been doing for the last 6 months is pushing the mask/BLM propaganda anyway. Good riddance to the fucking lot of them.

143391 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Richard O, 3, #1266 of 2914 🔗

With great sadness I have to agree, having seen every sport I love toe the line on this moronic muzzle shit.

Fuck them all.

143188 theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 3, #1267 of 2914 🔗

My son’s zoom interview for this afternoon just now got cancelled because of this. Thanks a lot Boris. Probably one of thousands. He has just graduated from Leeds with a 2.1 in Physics.

143228 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to theanalyst, 2, #1268 of 2914 🔗

Why should a Zoom interview be cancelled?

143236 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1269 of 2914 🔗

I read it as the interview was cancelled.

143357 ▶▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1270 of 2914 🔗

Yes….he had a zoom interview booked for 4pm today but they cancelled it because they thought there would be nobody in the office next week to train him if he eventually got the job. Training new starters is challenging when existing staff are all at home.

143355 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #1271 of 2914 🔗

The job is no longer there

143194 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 4, #1272 of 2914 🔗

From an 80 seat majority to a Labour Government in 2024. Is this deliberate ? The fear is that Starmer and Co would be even more dangerous than these Tory idiots and fascists. Public opinion is already turning our way but it is essential to get a real opposition/resistance going in British politics and society, not Farage though.

143211 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to nickbowes, 2, #1273 of 2914 🔗

Maybe it’s time for you to embrace Farage.

You could always keep the mask on when he comes in for the kiss.

143224 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Ovis, #1274 of 2914 🔗

Don`t get me wrong i admire Farage but he is too old now to mount this type of campaign. Richard Tice ?

143309 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Ovis, #1275 of 2914 🔗

Farage has the popular touch that people listen to. If he comes out full-on sceptic, it will sway many opinions, which is a very good thing. I have no desire to see him be part of a new political force however.

143354 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Ovis, 3, #1276 of 2914 🔗

They always wheel Farage out when there is mutiny in the air.He hoovers up the protest vote and leads it to no where.He is not the answer

143382 ▶▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1277 of 2914 🔗

If Farage isn’t the answer then what peaceful act of political engagement is the answer and who would lead it?

No-one in the political sphere in England has half of the nous, backbone and tenacity that Farage has.

144112 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 1, #1278 of 2914 🔗

But he’s a one-trick pony. Brexit. That’s it.

You’ll not get the left wing sceptic vote with Farage. I can’t bring myself to vote in the American election (dual citizen) but there is no way I would vote for him. I don’t think many on the left could. And don’t underestimate the number of left wing sceptics.

143226 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to nickbowes, 2, #1279 of 2914 🔗

I was thinking about Labour getting in, and the likelihood that they’d be just as hysterical as the Tories. But at least we wouldn’t get the nauseating cognitive dissonance from hearing a Conservative relishing trashing our freedoms, crashing the economy and ruining our children’s lives. It would be par for the course.

143377 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, #1280 of 2914 🔗

People need to understand that the Tories are New Labour with a blue rosetteAny government that leaves the equality act in place is not remotely conservative

143262 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to nickbowes, 5, #1281 of 2914 🔗

We have to get rid of the fallacy that Labour are somehow ‘worse’. Nothing legal is ‘worse’ than what this government have done.

IDK what we do about it, but I think democracy in this country is pretty much over. What a waste all the Brexit debate seems now. We might have been better off if we had begged Putin to let us form an alliance with Russia.

143353 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to redbirdpete, 1, #1282 of 2914 🔗

Sadly this is true… every line of objection is now closed.

Labour would print magic money… errrm..

Labour would open the borders to all comers… errm,,,

Labour would pander to women, alphabet freaks and foreigners… errrm..

Labour would destroy our freedom, our culture and our society… errrm…

Labour would allow law and order to crumble and petty tyranny to reign… errm…

Honestly, I’m at the point where I’d vote for Diane Abbott to get rid of this shower of cunts.

143197 DRW, 14, #1283 of 2914 🔗

Probably another bad night for me tonight. Sleep must be one of the biggest life pleasures lost over this, I was already feeling crap before. Now they’re just twisting the knife.

143199 godowneasy, #1284 of 2914 🔗

I proposed this yesterday but today seems more apt so here goes. Theme tune suggestion:

Demolition Man – The Police – or Sting if you prefer

143202 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1285 of 2914 🔗

I’m looking forward to the SAGE minutes of the meeting Carl Heneghan and Sunetra Gupta were involved in.

143227 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1286 of 2914 🔗

The stenographer is probably in a ditch somewhere.

143204 Caramel, #1287 of 2914 🔗
143208 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 13, #1288 of 2914 🔗

I watched Prime Minister, Boris Johnson’s, statement to the House. It was, not only depressing, it was shocking. Not only is the government apparently unaware of the meaning of False Positive Rate, but apparently so too are the members of parliament. This parliament is as bad as the government. Either they are all mad or they are a bunch of criminals.

143255 ▶▶ James, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1289 of 2914 🔗

Some are criminals. Most are just petrified of what is coming and don’t want to be seen to disobey.

143295 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to James, 1, #1290 of 2914 🔗

Boris claimed – as a justification for the 10pm curfew – that “We have evidence that’s when there’s transmission”.

143312 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #1291 of 2914 🔗

Evidence where is this evidence?? As somebody not thought to ask? Did all those murdered in care homes catch it at exactly 10pm

143524 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to stefarm, 1, #1292 of 2914 🔗

He didn’t say what the evidence is. He just asserted it exists. I have no doubt that he was just making stuff up.

143653 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Steve Hayes, #1293 of 2914 🔗

Most of them don’t how the monetary system works. They’re a bunch of idiots, those who can do, those who can’t teach…etc, when you get to the inevitable end, those who can’t become politicians.

143779 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Hayes, #1294 of 2914 🔗

I happened across Priti Patel’s school grades on the internet once – mine are way better (without meaning to boast)… I was shocked at how low the bar is for becoming an MP… Although wasn’t there an SNP MP recently who was barely 18? Far too young in my humble opinion – not enough experience of ‘real life’ to be of any use…

143212 stewart, replying to stewart, 1, #1295 of 2914 🔗

What Spain statistics is Boris Johnson is looking at?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

143239 ▶▶ Julian, replying to stewart, 2, #1296 of 2914 🔗

The ones he wants to see, or none. They are beyond thinking they need to justify anything any more – it’s all a fabrication.

143380 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, #1297 of 2914 🔗

He’s got a Covid fever – just imaginings.

143222 Samhurt, replying to Samhurt, 23, #1298 of 2914 🔗

New Englander here. Was out walking my Pyrenees just now and happened to come across a fellow I work for waiting with his nine-year-old for the school bus. The kid had a muzzle on – I was a bit confused, since his dad and I often joke about the ridiculousness of the damned things and I’ve never worn one on the job (he rarely does) – so I did exactly what I’d have done with, say, any one of my nieces or nephews: I made a funny face and loudly declared to my four-legged friend that I’d swore I’d seen a child somewhere about, but that I must be going daffy since there clearly wasn’t one anywhere to be seen. The kid said something in reply – I hopped about a bit, “did you hear that, Wøden,” etc (Wødin is the dog’s name) – good fun, or so I hoped – not a chance!

Long story short: I was admonished for making light of “a very serious situation” and informed that, while the rules might be a little arbitrary they were still the rules and had to be followed. I said that I thought that was the stupidest reason for anything, ever. The father said that it was “all just temporary.” I said that that was reason enough to not participate in it, full-stop. I said that school is supposed to be a place where our children go to find out how the world works, yet they were being fed an unscientific lie from the get-go which meant that nothing they were being taught could be trusted and that as parents and as a community it was our duty to resist state collaboration at every level, but most importantly at the level of our children’s education. I told him that this was how a generation of morality police was being trained. He told me where I could stick it.

As the bus drove off I made another funny face at the kid and motioned at him to take the muzzle off. I shouted the mantra I’d grown up with, the only thing from childhood that got me through my own storms: “Be Yourself!” He was smiling under the mask. His father and I won’t be having much to do with one another in future.

God, god, what a dark road ahead.

143244 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Samhurt, 11, #1299 of 2914 🔗

And just as important, forcing a child to wear a muzzle will damage their mental health and immune system.
As one of the banned-from-YouTube doctors said some moths ago, we don’t wrap children up in bubble-wrap, stick them in isolation and tell them to develop a healthy immune system.

143245 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lms23, 2, #1300 of 2914 🔗

(“Months” not “moths”)

143231 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 12, #1301 of 2914 🔗

I think we need a new Party that sceptic MPs can temporarily defect to. Either that or Boris is ousted by 1922 committee

143266 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to steve_w, 2, #1302 of 2914 🔗

Ousting Johnson would be better, followed by some sort of coalition for national recovery. New parties do not fare well in the UK, except as the recipients of protest votes in elections percieved as unimportant, such as those for MEP’s, and at by-elections.

143276 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Strange Days, 4, #1303 of 2914 🔗

How can you build a credible coalition out of liquid shit?

Apologies for being more generous to this Parliament than its members deserve.

143303 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Ovis, 1, #1304 of 2914 🔗

Excluding anyone in the current government I’d be happy to overlook support for the earlier measures if someone was willing to admit their mistakes.

143310 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Strange Days, 2, #1305 of 2914 🔗

I disagreed with lockdown #1, but I could understand the view.

This I just don’t get at all. I think the measures are disproportionate and illegitimate

143327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to steve_w, #1306 of 2914 🔗

Seconded

143284 ▶▶ James, replying to steve_w, 3, #1307 of 2914 🔗

What’s the point of having a new party when there not going to be any elections?

143316 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to James, 1, #1308 of 2914 🔗

A successful new party might be able to press for elections. As things stand, the regime of Keir Johnson Starmer is united and will happily cancel elections for the foreseeable.

143768 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to steve_w, #1309 of 2914 🔗

Wonder if Julia H-B will get Graham Brady back on her show again tomorrow?

143232 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 13, #1310 of 2914 🔗

In light of this morning’s developments can there be anyone of the sceptic persuasion that now thinks this is only ‘government incompetence’?

143246 ▶▶ James, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1311 of 2914 🔗

I would hazard a guess that Toby will persist. He has a vested interest in this. The Telegraph/Spectator have been funded by Gates in the past. You do not want to bite the hand that feeds you.

143351 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to James, 1, #1312 of 2914 🔗

Yes. I was exercised the way Toby Young presented the section on cases above, despite the number-crunching. Yesterday, he published the excellent analysis by Michael Yeadon and today, gives another link to his own work on this. At the same time, he reports on the claimed rise in cases without any mention that these are almost certainly not cases i.e. sick people but ‘cases’ – people testing positive after a questionable PCR test as he has already shown.

Is Toby Young trying to keep everyone sweet including his mates in the Tory party? Did he go too far and now feels he has to back-pedal? If we are to have a hope of convincing people that the government is lying, we need to have our facts straight. This is not easy for a lay person and this kind of prevarication doesn’t help. MW

143250 ▶▶ NY, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #1313 of 2914 🔗

No, this is definitely malice and deception.

143298 ▶▶▶ James, replying to NY, 1, #1314 of 2914 🔗

I am not sure this is malice. I think it quite possible that there are people behind this who really believe we would be better off without democracy. I think they are wrong.

143525 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to James, 1, #1315 of 2914 🔗

Better off without freedom you mean. You can be free without democracy and you can have “democracy” without freedom. Even the Soviets held elections, but the people were anything but free.

143257 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #1316 of 2914 🔗

Don’t know but still think we should avoid discussing motivation when trying to persuade non-sceptics – generally not much to be gained and much to be lost

143350 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, #1317 of 2914 🔗

I couldn’t agree more. Only one word is required, Sweden.

143281 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #1318 of 2914 🔗

I think it’s a combination of factors. An arse-covering exercise that is facilitated by a psychopathic disregard for the physical, mental, and financial wellbeing of the people of this country, combined with the precautionary principle gone into absolute overdrive, inability to accept death as a natural end to one’s life, increasing reliance on the state to do everything for us, and the seemingly enormous political cost (from Johnson’s perspective, at least) of being blamed for a single Covid death.

143344 ▶▶ Will, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1319 of 2914 🔗

Honestly, if there was some sort of over arching plan do you think they would allow Hancock and Dido Harding anywhere near it? I wouldn’t trust them to run a fucking bath. They are doubling down on the stupidity so they can claim credit for “beating” the virus and such is the stupidity of the electorate they might actually get away with it.

143448 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Will, 3, #1320 of 2914 🔗

Sorry Will I don’t buy it—-the initial ‘lock down’ was for three weeks. After six months and reams of overwhelming evidence to conclude that the virus has all but disappeared (and wasn’t the dire plague it was hyped up to be in the first place), Hancock and Johnson could now lay claim that their actions have worked (in spite of Sweden of course!). But no, here we are again with the fear factor being ramped up to the majority who will respond just as intended.
And can the on–off–on–off messages they send out, hyping up the fear and sowing confusion, be anything other than tools to brainwash the susceptible?

143371 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #1321 of 2914 🔗

What can be said is that the distinction between incompetence and intentionality is hard to diiscern after so much patently dishonest bending of the evidence.

143466 ▶▶ peter, replying to Harry hopkins, #1322 of 2914 🔗

Only a Shill.

143238 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1323 of 2914 🔗

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanrhe/PIIS2665-9913(20)30305-2.pdf

Long-term hydroxychloroquine use in patients with rheumatic conditions and development of SARS-CoV-2 infection: a retrospective cohort study

“Hydroxychloroquine was not associated with a preventive effect against SARS-CoV-2 infection in a large group of patients with rheumatological conditions.”
But

“For all patients in the study, overall mortality was lower in the hydroxychloroquine group than in the group of patients who did not receive hydroxychloroquine (odds ratio 0·70, 95% CI 0·55–0·89, p=0·0031).”

“Although there were no differences between groups in infection-related secondary outcomes among patients who developed active SARS-CoV-2 infection, overall mortality was lower in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine. Given that our study’s primary purpose was to investigate the association between a drug and prevention of a specific infection, we cannot make conclusions about the observed difference in overall mortality.”

 It will be interesting to see how this article published in Lancet will be discussed! The authors state no effect of HCQ on C-19 apart from fewer deaths!

143291 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1324 of 2914 🔗

Amazing. The most important outcome made to sound like the least.
I will give this a thorough read.
No possible justification now for preventing doctors prescribing it off-label as first line treatment for mild to moderate illness. Not that there was ever any such justification.

143385 ▶▶▶ Samhurt, replying to Kevin 2, #1325 of 2914 🔗

It’s fascinating to see how the Professions lie and obfuscate in real-time. I have always had an aversion to experts (being something of an expert in bullshit myself) but never did I think that this much corruption would be made so plain, in such a concentrated way, with almost zero consequences.

So much for ‘science,’ it’s nothing but another Church now.

143432 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to swedenborg, #1326 of 2914 🔗

So it doesn’t stop you getting it but it does stop it killing you. Makes sense.

143242 dpj, replying to dpj, 2, #1327 of 2914 🔗

Today’s figures for Scotland just released

Scottish numbers: 22 September 2020

  • 383 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 7.6% of newly tested individuals.
  • 1 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive.
  • 10 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19.
  • 73 people were in hospital with recently confirmed COVID-19.
  • 12,497 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results.

I dread to think what she has in store for us in 20 mins

143268 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to dpj, #1328 of 2914 🔗

So if 383 new positive results, does that mean 12497 are false positives??

143286 ▶▶ Chrissy, replying to dpj, 1, #1329 of 2914 🔗

Again they lie. 383 is 3% of 12,497 not 7.6%.
Emails to MPs and MSPs are getting us nowhere as none of them understand the numbers!

143330 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Chrissy, 1, #1330 of 2914 🔗

The SG have consistently pushed high %s of tests without explanation for months.

The hospital adminssion have been running at c70 for a few days from the reworked 48 low a few weeks ago. 8 icu is up 2 from yesterday.

All tiny numbers compared to the lockdown measures.

143485 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to dpj, #1331 of 2914 🔗

So only 5,039 people were newly tested individuals, with 7,458 being people tested previously.

143574 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to JohnB, #1332 of 2914 🔗

It would appear so. If none of them have been tested before then how many of them have been positive because of lingering virus in their system from months ago? Take the false positives out as well and probably actually a much smaller number of genuine positives.

143243 godowneasy, 9, #1333 of 2914 🔗

Isn’t it great that Toby had the foresight to put the link to the samaritans just above the comments section. He must have known what was coming.

143247 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 18, #1334 of 2914 🔗

“Forming a human shield around the NHS” (Boris statement). So he’s happy to sacrifice people’s lives to “save” the NHS, right?

143260 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to zacaway, 5, #1335 of 2914 🔗

Thought it is supposed to be the other way around. NHS protect us

143483 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to stefarm, 1, #1336 of 2914 🔗

Yes, I think that is what it used to be for. In the new normal, the NHS needs protecting from patients. Maybe if he repeats it enough, we’ll just forget what it used to be for.

143282 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to zacaway, 1, #1337 of 2914 🔗

Saving it for whom?

143289 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to Strange Days, 4, #1338 of 2914 🔗

From all those pesky patients of course.

143288 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to zacaway, 7, #1339 of 2914 🔗

Certainly an accurate statement. Killing people to save the healthcare system that is now a political organ of the state. For NHS, read SS.

143356 ▶▶ RickH, replying to zacaway, #1340 of 2914 🔗

It’s all bullshit – but be careful not to blame the workers in the NHS

143381 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to RickH, 4, #1341 of 2914 🔗

I’m not sure about this, I think the doctors have been appalling. Sound advice like take vitamin C, D & zinc, entirely missing. Very, very few calling any of this crap out. GP’s buggering off on holiday. They’ve lost the trust of a lot of people, too many have been shown to be just another public sector, taxpayer funded bunch, unionised skivers.

143513 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NickR, 2, #1342 of 2914 🔗

The whole public sector has lost my trust. Lock, stock and barrel. I’m looking for a party that will look for a completely new way forward.

143511 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to zacaway, #1343 of 2914 🔗

Sounds like it.

143251 Nicky, replying to Nicky, 16, #1344 of 2914 🔗

Have not posted for a while as busy losing my job to this COVID cr**p. Will not let it all get me down though and will now have more time on my hands to support the cause wherever possible. Sadly can’t continue monthly donations here for the time being (or to Toby’s FSU) but hope others can contribute to keep it going as it is the only sanity left it seems. Eventually we will win, and they will be exposed as the lying, cheating cowards they are.

143264 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nicky, 2, #1345 of 2914 🔗

Very sorry to hear that Nicky. I want to believe your last statement comes true but I’m not optimistic right now.

143508 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nicky, #1346 of 2914 🔗

Sorry to hear. Hope you back in employment soon.

143253 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #1347 of 2914 🔗

EPISODE 8 IS HERE!

Reaction to Whitty, Vallance and Project Fear!

Please leave us a review on itunes and TELL ALL YOUR LOVELY FRIENDS!

Plus let Tobes know that we’ve got a CLANGER for you today!

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

143254 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 6, #1348 of 2914 🔗

This six month lockdown conveniently covers the US Election so we will either be following “masks forever” creepy Joe or “military enforced vaccinations” the Trump way; both appalling really.

143304 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to nickbowes, 5, #1349 of 2914 🔗

Can somebody ask Putin to launch a few ICBMs over here and put us all out of our misery?

143339 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard O, 2, #1350 of 2914 🔗

The way we are provoking him in Estonia,Belarus and Ukraine you will probably get your wish

143320 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to nickbowes, 4, #1351 of 2914 🔗

One thing about Trump though, is that he has to pick his moments. The Dem’s will oppose literally everything he says, just because, as will the MSM. He may well enforce vaccinations – he didn’t say they won’t contain vit D, HcQ and tap water though! He is uncouth for sure, but watch his speech to the UN a while back; he is no friend of the global agenda and knows exactly what is going on.

143259 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #1352 of 2914 🔗

Premier Inns, to let up to 6000 employees go.

Wetherspoons to let up to 450 due to closed airport bars.

143342 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, #1353 of 2914 🔗

.

143497 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Dave #KBF, #1354 of 2914 🔗

Can we say “sacked” It is English and avoids the euphemism that these people really wanted to lose their income.

143501 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Kate, 1, #1355 of 2914 🔗

Indeed, what we call it almost anything 6500 people are to lose their livelyhoods

143641 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dave #KBF, #1356 of 2914 🔗

Things to come.

Was in a Premier Inn a couple of weeks ago. It didn’t look in a good state.

143267 Norma McNormalface, replying to Norma McNormalface, 18, #1357 of 2914 🔗

When’s Nicola Sturgeon coming out to announce that in Scotland pubs will close at 9:52pm, 17 people will be allowed at weddings and 5 and a half adults can gather for adult indoor team sports?

143280 ▶▶ 4096, replying to Norma McNormalface, 5, #1358 of 2914 🔗

And the restrictions might last 7 months

143311 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Norma McNormalface, 1, #1359 of 2914 🔗

She’s speaking to Scottish parliament in a few mins at 2:20 then on TV later 5 mins after Boris at 8:05

143271 Kevin 2, 2, #1360 of 2914 🔗

Changed my handle due to it duplicating somebody else’s.
Test post to see if it goes up.

143277 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 9, #1361 of 2914 🔗

It’s funny that he should mention the army helping. Surely they will be completely incapacitated right now what with covid ripping through such a large group of people in close quarters with little or no social distancing or masks? I assume that’s the case?

143361 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Achilles, 2, #1362 of 2914 🔗

Army wives at Bovingdon caused an outbreak by having a botox party !

143412 ▶▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Bumble, 1, #1363 of 2914 🔗

I saw that story in my local rag’s web$hyte actually – No photos needed, we all know the type! Had to chuckle 😉

143502 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Matt The Cat, 1, #1364 of 2914 🔗

I wouldn’t worry too much about the Army to be honest. Not because they’re incompetent or anything. They’ll be facing ex-Army people on Saturday.

143278 Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 16, #1365 of 2914 🔗

I now only wish for every member of parliament, and their entire extended families to die horribly in the most excruciating way possible.

I’d consider that a mere down-payment. The final settlement will only come when SAGE, the media class and the panjandrums of the NHS are all dead too.

143299 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 2, #1366 of 2914 🔗

You should be careful of posting inflammatory statements. This website is inevitably monitored by the security services.

143313 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Kate, 9, #1367 of 2914 🔗

I’m advocating no action. You can’t nick me for praying for the destruction of my enemies.

143329 ▶▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 4, #1368 of 2914 🔗

Well said bro 👍

143332 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 1, #1369 of 2914 🔗

I think it’s happening in Australia already

143452 ▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, #1370 of 2914 🔗

I too am praying to any god who will listen!

143326 ▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to Kate, 5, #1371 of 2914 🔗

What’s it to you? You seem to be doing their job for them

143400 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to John Smith, 1, #1372 of 2914 🔗

I used to post on a CFS/ME website and knew the man who built and maintained the site.
(CFS/ME being a politically undesirable illness, but we won’t go there)

He told me the site was monitored day and night by two IP addresses in Whitehall. He would sometimes get calls to take down certain statements when anyone went too far.

As far as I am concerned people can say what they like. I post here a lot.

But if you fall into the hands of the police, (after a demo, say) they will check your online statements and you could be charged with incitement.

143430 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Kate, 1, #1373 of 2914 🔗

Fuck the System and fuck their monitors or whatever they want to call themselves.

If I get done for an online statement then they better add murder to the charge cos the cunt that comes chapping at my door will get an axe right in the middle of his fucking pasty forehead!

144092 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to B Boru, 3, #1374 of 2914 🔗

You again. You really do not fit the mould of the reasonable and sane people who are upset by the actions of our government.

143462 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 2, #1375 of 2914 🔗

Given how rapidly we are moving into a dictatorship, how long will freedom of speech last?

Make sure you can defend anything you say here if questioned.

143505 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Kate, #1376 of 2914 🔗

I do hope so. Same for Guido and YouTube and Twitter, where I have posted far moire inflammatory comments than AL Jahom’s.

143283 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 17, #1377 of 2914 🔗

Encouragingly negative comments under Boris’ speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kmiIbs2T7c

I am actually in tears, 😢 😢 I can not believe we under such an evil leadership, I can not see the light,

Ruled by degree now it seems, might as well fire all them MP’s then
since they are Cleary not their to debate or vote on laws anymore. Hope
Boris and his Gov sink soon enough

OMG ,this is the end of fundamental human wrights, we officially under Nazism dictatorship 😢 😢 😢

 He’s absolutely lost the plot

143292 ▶▶ NY, replying to zacaway, 10, #1378 of 2914 🔗

Until people take to the streets in the millions, it’s all bluster.

143305 ▶▶▶ William Purle, replying to NY, 7, #1379 of 2914 🔗

Well I’ll be there this Saturday, Trafalgar Square, 12 pm. Hope to see you all there! (David Icke will be there too but we can just try to ignore him).

143314 ▶▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to William Purle, 8, #1380 of 2914 🔗

David Icke has been proved right more times than otherwise.

Why should we ignore him?

143378 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to John Smith, #1381 of 2914 🔗

Well said

Bout time people started fucking ltaking notice!!

143317 ▶▶▶▶ James, replying to William Purle, 5, #1382 of 2914 🔗

Good luck. I cannot be there. I really hope it goes well. If it does can you see if their might be support for a permanent vigil outside Downing Street.

143325 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to James, 1, #1383 of 2914 🔗

There is one already

143346 ▶▶▶▶ 4096, replying to William Purle, 2, #1384 of 2914 🔗

I wish all the loons like David Icke did everyone a favour and just pissed off.
This isn’t about your insane, hobbyhorse conspiracy theory about reptilians or something. It’s serious, it’s people’s lives, jobs, livelihoods. David Icke and his ilk make it all too easy for MSM to dismiss all the protesters as cranks so that nothing changes.

143373 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to 4096, #1385 of 2914 🔗

What the fuck are you talking about you utter clownshoe. David Icke has been predicting this for 30 years!!!!!!!

143379 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to 4096, 4, #1386 of 2914 🔗

I treat David Ike’s statements as symbolic reasoning.
It makes more sense that way.

There are demonic forces and evil does exist. It can be difficult to recognise, both in ourselves and in others.

But I have met people who have gone over to the “dark” side and have felt very uncomfortable around them.

They are squalid people, and you can sense their deficit and greed.

Good is always courageous.

However I am fond of reptiles, gecko’s for example are sweet..

143386 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to 4096, 1, #1387 of 2914 🔗

His research is without equal in tthe field. He has written more books on the subkect than you have probably read on any subject and continues tirelessly to spread the information to save humanity from this fucking onslaught we are now living through.

WHAT FUCKING PART OF THAT DON’T YOU GET CLOWN??!

143408 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to 4096, 7, #1388 of 2914 🔗

David Icke was at the demo I attended a few weeks back. He spoke only briefly but very well and didn’t mention any crazy or controversial stuff. Lets face it, the MSM are going to dismiss all the protestors as cranks, whoever is there and whatever they say.

143464 ▶▶▶▶ Quernus, replying to William Purle, 7, #1389 of 2914 🔗

I’ve been following David Icke for years now, and I know that some of his ideas seem very far-fetched. But he’s been spot on about what’s unfolding now. And he doesn’t actually talk much these days about his earlier ideas of reptilian involvement (and it’s worth pointing out that he’s certainly not alone in having this theory – it crops up in ancient history all over the place). But he was ridiculed for it because it’s an easy target, which has unfortunately had the effect of tarring all his ideas with the same brush. I watched his recent 6 hour live stream last Saturday – it was absolutely fascinating, inspiring and information, and it was all about what’s unfolding now in the context of the global reset, and looking ahead to what is planned with regard to transhumanism, etc He talked about the nature of reality, as well as what we can do to fight back now. He sets everything out very clearly, and everything he says is fully referenced. He’s got tremendous energy given that he’s been on this path for so long. So for me it’s a case of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater – go with what resonates, disregard the rest, keep an open mind, and do your own research.

143468 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Quernus, 2, #1390 of 2914 🔗

Bravo!

143499 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to William Purle, #1391 of 2914 🔗

Be glad to see you. Though we’ll probably not recognise each other! I’m usually up near the ice cream cone in front of the National Gallery.

143360 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to NY, #1392 of 2914 🔗

Exactly mate!

I have posted here repeatedly about this belief some still cling to with a death grip that it is all down to incompetence and stubborness to admit a mistake by these cunts!

I have also suggested that we have plenty of weapons at our disposal be it household items or sharpened garden tools. I will be going to London this Saturday with all my armoured bike gear on prepared!

THIS MUST BE BROUGHT DOWN BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

HUMANITY AS WE KNOW IT IS UNDER GRAVE AND DEADLY THREAT AND ATTACK……THE GLOVES ARE COMING OFF AND ALL OPTIONS ARE NOW ON THE TABLE!

RISE UP PEOPLE….RISE LIKE LIONS!

Rise Like Lions after Slumber
In unvanquishable number
And shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep have fallen on you
We are many they are few
We are many and they are few

144085 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to B Boru, 1, #1393 of 2914 🔗

Your suggestion of bringing weapons to the demo is a very bad one. The police have far worse weapons which they will not hesitate to use if they see people carrying weapons. Of course, you may be one of those folks who infiltrate groups like this to incite exactly this sort of problem.

143307 ▶▶ James, replying to zacaway, 2, #1394 of 2914 🔗

Please at least consider the possibility he is actually just following the plot. It is the rest of us who need to catch up,

143571 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to zacaway, #1395 of 2914 🔗

All take care on Saturday. I worry that it will be a good excuse for more heavy handed tactics by the police. I have such admiration for everyone going and standing up to the tyranny, unfortunately health issues mean I can’t be there.

143285 NY, replying to NY, 32, #1396 of 2914 🔗

Possibly the greatest fraud in history is unfolding before our very eyes. The intentional destruction of civilization in the name of a bug hardly worse than a bad flu, that doesn’t even rise to the heels of killer outbreaks suffered historically. I have never seen anything like it. This is a heinous crime against humanity and should be punished as such.

143302 ▶▶ James, replying to NY, 1, #1397 of 2914 🔗

Punished by who exactly?

143335 ▶▶▶ NY, replying to James, 3, #1398 of 2914 🔗

Ask how the French did it.

143290 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1399 of 2914 🔗

The house is low quality isn’t it. The standard of questioning is worse than informed community group standard. It is dreadful that house represents the people of our nation.

143319 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 1, #1400 of 2914 🔗

No help coming from that direction

143348 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #1401 of 2914 🔗

No. Only civil disobedience can end this.

143662 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, #1402 of 2914 🔗

I’m afraid so.

Having known three generations of MP in one constituency, and a few others from round and about, I have absolutely no doubt that a qualitative change (downwards) has taken place.

The pivotal time was that of the Blair years

I have received nothing but an automatic reply from my current MP in response to a short and clear statement of case. My (low) expectations have not been confounded.

143294 redbirdpete, replying to redbirdpete, 4, #1403 of 2914 🔗

I think we might be not far off going full David Koresh in our remote valley community. Plenty of buried ammo and pillboxes left over from both WW1 and WW2 training up here. I’m not going to though – there are people in Stalag England that need me – people who for one reason or another are left on their own like me and need human contact. We can’t live without it. .

143668 ▶▶ RickH, replying to redbirdpete, #1404 of 2914 🔗

Try ‘F. It.’ and ‘F.Off’ as a response and do what you feel is right.

143297 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #1405 of 2914 🔗

https://twitter.com/ImDarrenDunn2/status/1308169854575349762

“The false positive rate rose from 1.4% to 2.2%-7.6% when a Hcov was present (alpha and betacoronaviruses) This suggests that PCR tests are detecting Hcov infections in the same way serology tests are. Conducted by the accreditation body of Germany w/ a fair sized n=

 This is almost hidden in an earlier report. If this is true rather shocking. False pos rate could go up to 7% if other common coronavirus present!!

143324 ▶▶ dpj, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1406 of 2914 🔗

So basically as lots of people start to get colds and go for tests, panicking that they have covid, total positives will go up but so will false positives so really no increase?

143756 ▶▶ Anthony, replying to swedenborg, #1407 of 2914 🔗

I think this is massive and needs to be thoroughly jumped on by the media. It literally explains everything we are currently seeing. If true we’ll have no choice but to immediately stop testing.

143801 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Anthony, 1, #1408 of 2914 🔗

Can we get Carl Heneghan on the case?

144093 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to dpj, #1409 of 2914 🔗

His email is on the CEBM site.

144118 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1410 of 2914 🔗

It’s hard to see why though. PCR tests are not like antibody tests and usually other viruses are not a source of false positives. There’s no link to the actual paper just a couple of screenshots.

144203 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 2, #1411 of 2914 🔗

I found this link

https://www.achgut.com/artikel/bericht_zur_coronalage_28.05.2020

and this link

https://www.instand-ev.de/System/rv-files/340%20DE%20SARS-CoV-2%20Genom%20April%202020%2020200502j.pdf

which has Drosten as main author. I think his test is the main one used.I cannot read or delve into this document but perhaps others can. It seems important.

144483 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1412 of 2914 🔗

Thanks. If you look at Tabelle 5 on page 16 and 17 it paints a slightly different picture.

Teilnehmer-Nr is the lab they were testing– there were 21 labs– and the table shows how many copies per ml were generated on each sample.

So for example when looking for the E gene with dPCR, lab number 4233 made lots of copies of all the SARS-CoV-2 positive samples and 0 of the negative ones. They did very well.

But if we look at the labs that did less well and had some false positives, e.g. 68050, they made the same amount of false positives on the everything-negative samples as well as on the other-HCoV samples. For example, 68050 got <50 copies (where they should have had 0) on all three of the OC43 positive, everything negative and also on 229E positive samples.

We see this across the board. Some labs had more false positives than others, but no lab had more false positives on other HCoVs than they had on the purely everything-negative sample.

So why did the numbers come out the way they did? At the end of the document there is more breakdown of the numbers of samples that were tested in each lab. For some reason there must have been slightly more tests made of the HCoV positive samples in the bad labs than of the everything-negative samples.

I don’t think there’s any evidence here that other HCoVs are actually a source of false positives.

144693 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 1, #1413 of 2914 🔗

Thanks.So we can say for sure that other HCOV won’t interfere with the test.This seem to be the opinion also of this doctor.

https://twitter.com/dr_barrett/status/1308464444524163077

144749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #1414 of 2914 🔗

It looks like it. It would be very surprising because PCR won’t amplify anything except an exact match. If DNA polymerase was that imprecise then life as we know it would not exist.

Every time I’ve seen it claimed that other HCoVs can cause false positives it hasn’t stood up to scrutiny.

The early tests for the E-gene only can false-positive on SARS1 (because it’s the same gene). There have been other PCR tests for completely different viruses that false-positive on common genes (as you would expect) and sometimes people are extrapolating from that. Then there is the CDC document which is just saying being SARS2 positive doesn’t rule out superinfection but it’s easily read the wrong way. Sometimes there’s a mixup with antibody tests (which are always much less certain because what they’re looking for is more indirect).

Often other HCoVs are included in samples used to validate laboratories and this always produces some numbers that can be looked at in the wrong way.

143301 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 7, #1415 of 2914 🔗

So are we going to have the old bill outside every pub in the land at 21:59, chucking people out.

143308 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to stefarm, 1, #1416 of 2914 🔗

Keeps them off the streets.

143322 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to stefarm, 6, #1417 of 2914 🔗

I may have been at a lock-in the other night in my town.

They will definitely continue.

143347 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Farinances, 8, #1418 of 2914 🔗

With extended pub opening hours, the good old lock-in is long lost.

I remember the landlord of a traditional pub in Sheffield leaving a pint pot behind the bar and telling everyone to help themselves and put their money in the pot.

When the local bobby walked past we all had to go quiet for a few minutes.

Happy times

Enjoy your lock-in Farinances

143484 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1419 of 2914 🔗

It’s back to the good old days!

We used to go to a pub when we were all underage (in the 90s early 00s- had extended hours come in yet?), he had a lockin every friday and saturday night which was basically populated by schoolkids and local old fogies. The police knew about it but turned a blind eye because it kept all the kids off the streets at night! It was like an illegal youth club lol. Yes we were drinking. But only to a point. Anyone got too worse for wear, he would pay for a taxi to take them home.

Sadly he retired. This is the kind of hero the country now needs.

143375 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Farinances, 2, #1420 of 2914 🔗

My uncle’s favourite pub had a lock-in several times a week between March and July but some bastard snitched on the landlord.

143673 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 1, #1421 of 2914 🔗

You have to be totally Witless (pun intended) to even contemplate the idea that closing pubs early has any effect on transmission of a low-incidence infection.

143315 Farinances, 23, #1422 of 2914 🔗

My dad just watched yesterday’s coronascope forecast starring Whitless and Vadar…ence:

“Fuck off, nobody elected you!”

Lol.

143318 mjr, replying to mjr, 8, #1423 of 2914 🔗

So does this new tyranny make any difference to the original exemptions ? I will continue to claim my exemption. It will probably mean the sheeple will now be encouraged to tut even more … I am looking forward to my first challenge ..

It also means my ongoing correspondence with Aldi re their lies about staff wearing masks being voluntary irrelevant as they now have the regulation to back their enforcement.

143328 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to mjr, 2, #1424 of 2914 🔗

Any news on the mandate being extended into outdoor public areas?

143334 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard O, 4, #1425 of 2914 🔗

It wasn’t mentioned. Taxis, private hire vehicles and hospitality venues

143337 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to matt, 2, #1426 of 2914 🔗

Thnaks. I guess he could add this extra special treat during his TV address this evening.

143365 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Richard O, 1, #1427 of 2914 🔗

It would be a weird thing to do to specifically list the scenarios to Parliament and then give a different list in his press conference. The Speaker would be rightly furious

143336 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to mjr, 2, #1428 of 2914 🔗

As far as I can see the facemask exemption rules have remained unchanged, is that correct?

143399 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to mjr, 5, #1429 of 2914 🔗

Well I’ve never claimed an exemption and I go into at least a couple of retail establishments a day to buy snacks – so far, nobody has ever said a word. I’m going to carry on doing so.
I think the closest I got to a “confrontation” was about a month ago, some old bloke, maybe 75+, who was at the neighbouring self-service till at my local Tesco trying to “stare me out”.
I completely blanked the miserable, gullible old tosser.
Like you, I’m looking forward to the first instance of anyone even uttering a word in my direction. It won’t end well for them.
It’s the staff I feel sorry for, being forced to wear face-nappies as from thursday.
This could be yet another opportunity for BIG BUSINESS to speak out and declare they won’t enforce this upon their workers.
Will they, though? I think probably not.

143441 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to mjr, 5, #1430 of 2914 🔗

I think we may see tighter enforcement. My OH got questioned by the plod at train station the other day for not wearing mask – she produced her magic get-out-of-jail exception and was let go, but they might start harassing people more now.

143331 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 18, #1431 of 2914 🔗

Boris – I’ll allow myself to use his second name on this occasion for the mellifuous alliteration it provides – Boris seems to have gone bonkers.

Petrify everyone, destroy jobs and businesses – to what end? What scale of mortality iis he trying to prevent?

Whitty and Valance suggested yesterday it would hit 200 a day if nowt was done. Over six months that comes to 36,500. Less than the number of “excess deaths” that weren’t noticed two winters ago.

Here is another back of a fag packet calculation: Whitty and Valance seemed yesterday to suggest a CFR of 0.4% (200/50,000). If at the IFR is half that (0.2) and 80% of the population gets infected that produces a 105,600 mortality figure – but then do we subtract the 42,000 who have already died? – that gives 65,000.

And we know only something like 2% of what ever deaths occur won’t be amongst people under 65.

I’m 73 and I’d just like to take my chances. But that, apparently, is a very naughty thing for me to as I could be spreading the virus doing so.

143685 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #1432 of 2914 🔗

I’m 73 and I’d just like to take my chances”

Join the club.

We look after the grandchildren for at times. The mother of one of our grandchildrens’ friends seems to have genuine Covid-19, and we are in the genuinely ‘vulnerable’ category.. So we’re refraining from immediate close contact this week.

We’re quite capable of taking those sort of decisions without a spoiled narcissistic brat and his shills and cohorts telling us what to do.

In fact – our judgment is a few thousand percent better – and based in reality.

143341 Matt The Cat, replying to Matt The Cat, 8, #1433 of 2914 🔗

Ok, so what’s needed now is for the retail staff’s union which will be, in most cases, USDAW, to take a stand and tell their members to ignore the mask edict.
USDAW, of course, being utter cucks, won’t do that and we will see mass resignations and sackings from the big name retail establishments. Let’s hope these are followed up by mass unofficial strike action, because it’s the only hope the workers have!!

143690 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Matt The Cat, 2, #1434 of 2914 🔗

But remember – the whole thing is a massive Fear pyramid scheme, where USDAW is vulnerable to the same pressure as everyone else who has been conned. That’s the way it works.

143345 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #1435 of 2914 🔗

Millatary to take police statiinary roles such as policing downing street so police can chase mask dodging. Beth Rigby Sky News.
First creep of army on streets. Significant.

143364 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Basics, 5, #1436 of 2914 🔗

You can guarantee they will be all armed as well. They don’t like protestors going near the increasingly Dictator like Johnson.

How long before the British Army fire on peaceful protestors on the streets of London? I bet it happens within a month with people like Tobias Ellwood in charge and the Sun and Daily Mail cheering them on.

143974 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Darryl, #1437 of 2914 🔗

I live in Ellwood’s constituency. I’m now afraid to send him any more messages protesting all this.

143368 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 7, #1438 of 2914 🔗

Nicely timed for Saturday exactly what we have been saying all along.

143370 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Basics, 3, #1439 of 2914 🔗

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

143388 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to ikaraki, 1, #1440 of 2914 🔗

I can’t even spell millitary I struggling with guessing Roman!

143392 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to ikaraki, 1, #1441 of 2914 🔗

qui immo

143445 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Paul, #1442 of 2914 🔗

Is it code?

143781 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Basics, #1443 of 2914 🔗

Latin looks like that. A friend of mine learnt Latin for several years as a child at prep school and apparently he was under the impression it was a code of some kind.

144493 ▶▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Basics, 1, #1444 of 2914 🔗

Literal – ‘Who will guard the guards themselves?’
Modern interpretation – ‘Who watches the watchmen?’

143979 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to ikaraki, #1445 of 2914 🔗

Had to look that up “Who will guard the guards themselves?” Indeed.

143820 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Basics, #1446 of 2914 🔗

I wonder if they will be armed?

144090 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Polemon2, #1447 of 2914 🔗

Manning Downing Street? If they’re not armed, they’ve seriously underestimated the volatility of the situation.

143352 DRW, replying to DRW, 14, #1448 of 2914 🔗

Really struggling with anxiety again now. It’s just getting worse and worse.

143363 ▶▶ Jolly Roger, replying to DRW, #1449 of 2914 🔗

Just take a deep breath, go outside into the fresh air, face the sun, and take 5min, this nonsense will end that for sure.

143376 ▶▶ SmokeandMirrors, replying to DRW, 5, #1450 of 2914 🔗

Relax. It’s just theatre. That’s what politicians do.
Ultimately, it’s playing to the gallery.

143398 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to DRW, 7, #1451 of 2914 🔗

Yes sorry, I’m there too – just made an inappropriate outburst on a work chat room. Oh well, others thought I was a bit dissident, and now it’s confirmed. My day is shot. I AM going to the pub later.

Bugger me …..

143503 ▶▶▶ Roadrash, replying to HaylingDave, 1, #1452 of 2914 🔗

I’m concerned that the word missing from face masks outdoor is ‘yet’…

143403 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to DRW, 8, #1453 of 2914 🔗

Same here; I lie awake for hours regularly, with each day that follows bringing fresh horrors to our blighted society.

And now 6 months at least, with masks in the open air!

I shall continue to wear my exemption badge, but am now steeling
myself to face growing hostility.

I only visit the local supermarket very early in the mornings now, as very few people are about.

I foresee food rationing, ever harsher travel restrictions and a more or less complete breakdown in the normal modes of behaviour which keep our increasingly fractured and disgruntled society on a more or less even footing.

Is there no possibility of some kind of class action being set up, led, hopefully pro bono, by someone of Lord Sumption’s stature, with expert advisors like Professors Gupta, Heneghan and Sikora?

Gina Miller managed to hold the government to account- which infuriated me at the time- but could we not do the same?

Are there any legal eagles here to offer advice?

143489 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to wendyk, #1454 of 2914 🔗

I’m hoping that you are wrong about the open air muzzles .

143495 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to arfurmo, #1455 of 2914 🔗

I’m hoping I’m wrong too!

143498 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to wendyk, 2, #1456 of 2914 🔗

Waiting to see the outcome of Simon Dolan’s case. If any of my loved ones had been caused damage or had died as a result of the prioritisation of Covid then I would definitely be starting my own action.

143638 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to GLT, 1, #1457 of 2914 🔗

If he ever gets the case head… I suspect the ‘lawyer on holiday’ was just a stalling move, to get the extension to the coronavirus act through Parliament first..

143633 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendyk, #1458 of 2914 🔗

Has Boris said make in the open air now, ie everywhere outside???

143407 ▶▶ PWL, replying to DRW, 2, #1459 of 2914 🔗

Like the other guy says, it is just theatre. It is all theatre so that you become anxious. In fact, your reaction should be to energise for a fight, and they don’t want that. Like that famous Sex Pistols song entreats, “d on’t be told what you want, and don’t be told what you need”.
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/

143417 ▶▶ Hopeful, replying to DRW, 2, #1460 of 2914 🔗

Hope this helps. Allow yourself to feel down for a spell as denial is bad for the system. Don’t indulge yourself in the doom and gloom though.Try taking a few deep breaths and smile. The act of smiling generates feel-good stuff in the system. Feeling better even about crappy situations, positions us to be better equipped to deal with things. As Vernon Coleman says even though you may feel alone, you are not. Take care.

143692 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, #1461 of 2914 🔗

Sorry to hear that. Hang on to the fact that in can reduce and dissipate. But it’s a bugger to contend with whilst finding the right means of dealing with it for you.

143964 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to DRW, #1462 of 2914 🔗

Me too. We’ll get through this.

143362 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 21, #1463 of 2914 🔗

Problem is 22:00 becomes 21:00 then 20:00 then pubs only open 1 day a week and then gimp mask and straw and then a 2 drink minimum and then supermarkets closing early and then only certain days for shopping and then no journeys over 5 miles.

When will the fucking plebs realise.

It’s not about all the snivelling babies whinging ‘but I don’t go to the pub, I’m in bed by 22:00, it doesn’t bother me’ ‘it’s only a bit of material over your face, no big deal’

Falling right into the trap, selfish self-centred cretins. Fucking idiots.

They get what they deserve just leave us free thinking people out.

143395 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to stefarm, 4, #1464 of 2914 🔗

The problem is that all these ‘idiots’ are going to drag the rest of us down with them!

The Totalitarian Tiptoe!

They will never realise. They need purged!

143396 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to stefarm, 3, #1465 of 2914 🔗

Exactly, when we are all taken care of they will get what’s coming to them. At least we won’t have to endure an eternity hooked up to A.I.

143696 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 1, #1466 of 2914 🔗

I don’t know if the Living Dead ‘deserve’ their fate – but, in the end, you have to have some responsibility for lapping up the shite that’s offered to you.

Someone moved into the road today as I was about to pass them on the pavement. Well … their choice to be a Cupid Stunt, I guess. But don’t expect me to move over on that basis.

143366 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #1467 of 2914 🔗

Sturgeon begins with a really hateful series of self energising wobbles. She is drained and worn. Struggling to sound interested in herself.

Big threatening looming words. Darkening the cloud. Theatre theatre.

Now segways onto Devi prepped paras….

143383 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1468 of 2914 🔗

Total hot air guff.

Rowing soundly into the same as wot he (boris) said.

Pretencious twat. In summary.

143425 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1469 of 2914 🔗

Why I’m not a journalist… one reason of many. I drifted off from the shit weasel speaking. Missed how much I dont knoe.
Back on it. Windows open is good. And finally homes can no longer have visits.
Did she say what the useless R is? Well we are reducing that now.
No covid zero mentioned because that is fucking nutz man so she doesn’t mention that.

Car travel. No car sharing.

Circuit breaker. No decision but it is under review. Oct break don’t book overseas travel.

Sign up for stasi text scotland ok.

Global blah. Acutely aware im not liked. Doin ma best.

Nicola nae pals

143460 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 11, #1470 of 2914 🔗

So, those of us who live alone can no longer look forward to the simple and hitherto harmless, pleasure of having coffee with friends after an enjoyable walk.

Have these buffoons not given any thought to what this will do to our already battered, anxious and frustrated selves?

No outlets at all, life in the deep freeze.

We might just as well embalm ourselves.

They are criminals, playing Russian Roulette with our lives. They should be prosecuted.

143465 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 1, #1471 of 2914 🔗

She did dribble on at the end with one day we will get passed this pandemic. Does that help?

143471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 1, #1472 of 2914 🔗

I don’t think so ; the woman is a tin pot dominatrix and she won’t relinquish control easily.

143469 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 4, #1473 of 2914 🔗

And I completely agree they should be prosecuted.
Geaorge Galloway has a change.org petition running and campaign for a vote of no confidence in Sturgeon and the snp government. Fyi.

143476 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 1, #1474 of 2914 🔗

Yes I’ve signed Basics; the numbers have passed 26,000 now.
I check it regularly to try and keep the blues at bay.

143494 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 1, #1475 of 2914 🔗

The silent majority are out there.

143506 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 1, #1476 of 2914 🔗

Yes, judging by the rapid increase in signatures and the acerbic comments, I think you’re right.

So many folk are reluctant to criticise the Cult openly- a sad reflection on Stasi Scotland- but now we have an outlet.

Until now I’ve never trusted Galloway, thinking him little more than an attention seeking extremist, but now I think he’s the only person with enough verbal firepower to stick it to Sturgeon.

143530 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to wendyk, 2, #1477 of 2914 🔗

There are no more political differences or cultural differences to be considered….This is war against all of humanity.

they have everyone uo here brainwashed with identity politics for last how ever many years and therefore this is all linked to political identity in Scotland. Forget reason and logic, doesnt exist.

The Mob Rules!

We need to becomeThe Mob!

As for Gorgeous George, I will stand alongside anyone who wants to bring this whole evil empire down so more power to him

143672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Basics, 1, #1478 of 2914 🔗

And they are about as much use as a chocolate teapot. They deserve what’s happening.

143609 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, #1479 of 2914 🔗

Mistake, the numbers are approaching 24,000

143435 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Basics, 2, #1480 of 2914 🔗

But always with a slight difference so the braindead can tell themselves that she is doing ‘more’ than the hated English. In this case, banning household visits. I can’t believe I am typing that while living in Europe, but there you go.

143367 PWL, replying to PWL, 1, #1481 of 2914 🔗

In my view, UK Government is hamstrung by the law – and ultimately the people who will see it preserved. A 10pm curfew for pubs is feeble. Plus, the Oxford vaccine trial is still on hold in the US. Things are not going well for the Anglo-globalist technocrats.

The Oxford-AstraZeneca trial illness: one that only appears to have been caused by the vaccine?

143416 ▶▶ Julian, replying to PWL, 1, #1482 of 2914 🔗

Hamstrung in doing what, by what law?

143374 Andrew Fish, replying to Andrew Fish, 5, #1483 of 2914 🔗

YouGov has a poll up on the latest measures. Might be a good idea to chip in if only to partially offset the Government lackeys voting for doomsday.

143389 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Andrew Fish, 5, #1484 of 2914 🔗

81% either strongly support or somewhat support!

143402 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1485 of 2914 🔗

If that figure is in any way genuine then we are officially living in a different dimension. A dimension of pure chaos, pure evil.

143415 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Richard O, 1, #1486 of 2914 🔗

We really someone to fund some in-depth, scientific polling into attitudes, as part of the campaign to re-educate the public as to the facts

143512 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Julian, 1, #1487 of 2914 🔗

That’s exactly what we’re doing: https://www.covid19assembly.org/covid19-survey

Please ask. Non-sceptics you know to complete it.

Thanks

143626 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 1, #1488 of 2914 🔗

It’s the 77th brigade…

143421 ▶▶▶ Leonard, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1489 of 2914 🔗

47% don’t think the measures go far enough. Scary.

143710 ▶▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Leonard, #1490 of 2914 🔗

But also blatantly a lie.

143758 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Sarigan, #1491 of 2914 🔗

All made up. Propaganda!

143390 ▶▶ davews, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #1492 of 2914 🔗

Results as predicted – though the government seems to have come in for a lot of stick in the second question.

143397 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #1493 of 2914 🔗

Depressing reading the results, though…

143424 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Andrew Fish, #1494 of 2914 🔗

i cant believe what i just saw, did my bit but kinhell.

143455 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to wayno, 1, #1495 of 2914 🔗

It’s all made up bullshit!

I posted it before but I will post it again. You might want to read it.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/MINDSPACE.pdf

143447 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #1496 of 2914 🔗

Any link to it? Hate trawling through YouGov

143514 ▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Nick Rose, #1497 of 2914 🔗

https://yougov.co.uk/

Go to top right of page, down a bit there is a vote button.

143404 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 14, #1498 of 2914 🔗

The virus is Boris & Hancock,
The cure is a ditch.

143413 ▶▶ Simon, replying to Arnie, 6, #1499 of 2914 🔗

We could crowdfund for a ditch…..

143449 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Simon, 6, #1500 of 2914 🔗

No need, I will dig it myself.

143456 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Alethea, 3, #1501 of 2914 🔗

I’ve got a spade and shovel and some spare time….

143482 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Paul, 1, #1502 of 2914 🔗

What shall we sing as we dig?

143406 Caramel, replying to Caramel, #1503 of 2914 🔗

So how are they actually seen in the UK? Not just by sceptics. Whitty, Vallance, Cummings, Hancock, Bojo, Sturgeon, etc.

143409 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Caramel, 2, #1504 of 2914 🔗

Most of the zombies are so brain dead they have probably only vaguely heard of Johnson.

143663 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Richard O, 1, #1505 of 2914 🔗

“Is Brian May not still president then?”

143410 Simon, replying to Simon, 7, #1506 of 2914 🔗

Do you know any pro lockdown zealots with children? If so, then it might be a bit of fun to point ot to them, the children, that the lockdown and quarantine etc… will stop Santa Claus, Father Christmas, Saint Nicholas etc. They cannot deliver this year as Matt Wancock and Boris Johnson has banned him.

Lockdown is more cruel to kids than telling them there are no presents at Christmas. Their parents won’t be able to talk their way out of that one. Imagine saying how someone would be exempt when other’s aren’t. They’ll have to contradict themselves.

Imagine a bunch of kids complaining that Boris has ruined Christmas. The government runs on popularity, all those future voters…

143433 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Simon, 4, #1507 of 2914 🔗

I know several with children. They are the ones that make me angriest

143440 ▶▶▶ Simon, replying to Julian, 1, #1508 of 2914 🔗

Juian, do your duty for the country :>)

143457 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Julian, 1, #1509 of 2914 🔗

It’s those that tolerate children being muzzled that I abhor the most.

143639 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Julian, #1510 of 2914 🔗

Snap. I’m going to meet 2 of them Thursday. Not looking forward to that!

143659 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Julian, 1, #1511 of 2914 🔗

They’re the ones whose children will abandon them to hell in their old age as payback and it can’t come soon enough.

143481 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Simon, #1512 of 2914 🔗

It’s a good plan. Masterful!

143624 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Simon, #1513 of 2914 🔗

Except that these sort of people are also the sort who mask their young children..

143418 nickbowes, #1514 of 2914 🔗

For a little light relief – please leave a comment to this fine gentleman !

https://twitter.com/MattHancock



143419 Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1515 of 2914 🔗

No Lockdowns in Sweden, Really Why? (It’s not that our Gov is Smarter) / Stupid Joe Biden Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CTfOGoazYM

Sweden tried a vaccine for swine flu …

143420 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 8, #1516 of 2914 🔗

I see that we are now going to follow Scotland with the lunacy of having to wear muzzles everytime we are away from our tables in pubs. I guess the 10pm closing time limit might not be enough to force them all out of business, so he had to make sure.

143436 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Chicot, 3, #1517 of 2914 🔗

Enjoy seeing an ordinary guy sitting in a put for a quite pint in a mask, i didn’t.
Stupid attack on dignity.

143426 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1518 of 2914 🔗

How infectious is someone who has the virus but is asymptomatic to the point of not knowing the are infected.

There seems to be an assumption that they are equally as infectious as someone with the virus.

Has any research been undertaken on this?

143439 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ned of the Hills, 14, #1519 of 2914 🔗

Swedenborg is your man for this, he has posted several times on this matter.

The CDC admitted recently that if you test positive and are asymptomatic, and over 40 cycles have been used in the PCR test, then you have such a low level of viral material in your body that transmission is impossible. The NHS are using 45 cycles in their testing.

Asymptomatic transmission is one of the greatest lies that has underpinned this annihilation of our civilisation.

143450 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Richard O, 16, #1520 of 2914 🔗

It all hinges on the “I wear a mask for others” lie. Without this recourse to emotional manipulation, they have nothing. Hence why the WHO etc. had to row back their comments on the virtual impossibility of asymptomatic transmission: governments pressured them to to do so, because governments
need the asymptomatic (healthy) masses to fear infecting other people in order to retain control over them.

143454 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Richard O, 4, #1521 of 2914 🔗

One the rancid Hancock was peddling in HOC again yesterday.

143529 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Richard O, 2, #1522 of 2914 🔗

Medical knowledge has been re-written to justify the fear porn.

Viral illnesses can only transmit when symptomatic (i.e. shedding virus through coughs sneezes and dribbles) and in close proximity for a length of time (not walking past outdoors)
As we know, coronavirus is spread through household contacts.

In addition you need to pick up an infectious dose. One or two viruses just will not hack it!

Vallence, Whitty and all the others know this!

143540 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 7, #1523 of 2914 🔗

There has never been any justification for masking healthy asymptomatic people.

143542 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Kate, 5, #1524 of 2914 🔗

And if you were symptomatic a mask would not protect others from your viruses.

143628 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Kate, 1, #1525 of 2914 🔗

Great analysis perfectly crafted. The myth of asymptomatic spread is the one Hancock uses on a daily basis. A journo needs to call him out. I expect he will avoid Julia Brewer from last week on.

143472 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #1526 of 2914 🔗

As already posted, how can an asymptomatic person be infectious. If that was the case we would be sick all of the time, hence our wonderful immune system

143490 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1527 of 2914 🔗

The World Health Organisation said that there is no evidence of asymptomatic transmission.

143523 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #1528 of 2914 🔗

That great. Asymptomatic transmission never made sense – an asymptomatic person is a false positive test. It was only used to scare us

143566 ▶▶ SmokeandMirrors, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1529 of 2914 🔗

Asymptomatic transmission is a concept used by agencies who were caught out by this virus.
‘Act of God’ , climate change etc. From the long list of perfect excuses
to disguise complete incompetence.
They have been rumbled.

143654 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1530 of 2914 🔗

I seem to recall reading about this a while back and it is complicated, but essentially they are less infectious but they think they can still spread it a bit. I seem to recall they reckoned that ‘virus load’ was significant and that asymptomatic people only gave off low amounts of virus which in turn mostly only lead to further asymptomatic infections, unless the person was particularly vulnerable.

143702 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1531 of 2914 🔗

That’s an ‘angels on the head of a pin’ question – it has no relevance to reality, because the bottom line is that Covid-19 has gone as a major infective threat. It’s now background noise.

143434 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 28, #1532 of 2914 🔗

What the brain dead don’t realise is that nothing is off the table now. Enforced home imprisonment, removal to quarantine camps, army curfews, enforced vaccination of babies (or removal from parents until vaccinated), repatriation of personal savings to the state to pay for testing, Covid tax, etc, etc. I wonder how the “It’s just a mask” brigade will feel about all that? Is there a line not to be crossed for them anywhere?

143443 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Achilles, 5, #1533 of 2914 🔗

None for them, they are undead.

The rest of us on the other hand have months of psychological and physical torture ahead.

143459 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Achilles, 9, #1534 of 2914 🔗

The phoney war ended this week. The tanks are rolling. The planes are airborne. All we can do is dig in.

143616 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Achilles, 1, #1535 of 2914 🔗

What you wrote about the taking of personal savings to pay for testing is seriously sinister..

143438 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1536 of 2914 🔗

Hope this helps. May have been referenced before. If the conclusions are correct, a proven to be safe BCG vaccine, with preliminary phase 3 trials complete, could be available from the Murdoch Institute, part funded by the Gates family, by the end of next month (convenient for the U.S. Presidential election!):

In East Germany, BCG vaccination programs were established by the communist government in 1951, and soon became compulsory in 1953, leading to near-universal (99.8%) BCG vaccination of newborns by day 3.

By contrast, voluntary BCG vaccination (recommended since 1955) was far less common in West Germany, due to low incidence of the disease after the Second World War. In early years, only 7–20% of all newborns became BCG-vaccinated in Western Germany, with almost complete cessation of vaccination between 1975 and 1977 (Fig. 1a ).

Thus, we believe that the comparison of morbidity and mortality of SARS-CoV-2 would be particular informative in the light of the rather uniform genetic, social, and cultural background.

Our observations strongly support the analysis from Miller et al., and point toward BCG vaccination having a protective effect.

…SARS-CoV-2 testing capacities, a frequent confounding factor when comparing different populations across countries, were early on expanded to far more than 100,000/day (end of March 2020) all over Germany. Furthermore, demographic characteristics show that relatively more elderly people live in East Germany than in West Germany. The age distribution shows that the proportion of people above 64 years of age is generally higher in Eastern federal states formerly belonging to the German Democratic Republic (GDR) [ 2 ]. Thus, age-wise, the population with a greater risk to succumb due to COVID-19 is even more abundant in East, compared with West Germany.’

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41375-020-0871-4

That would permit massive face saving, allow a general climb down, resignations, reshuffles etc before the now urgently required independent public inquiry publishes its report.

143620 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tim Bidie, -1, #1537 of 2914 🔗

They might ‘spike’ the BCG vaccine with something else… we know there is a depopulation agenda.. Also that Bill Gates wants to change our DNA (see video of him saying so that I posted a link to the other day..)

143630 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Carrie, #1538 of 2914 🔗

Please can you repost the Gates DNA link? I just want to look for research here purposes. Thank you

143444 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #1539 of 2914 🔗

It might help help it the Telegraph came out in full opposition instead spouting “second wave” as if it’s a fact

No Lockdowns in Sweden, Really Why? (It’s not that our Gov is Smarter) / Stupid Joe Biden Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CTfOGoazYM

Sweden tried a vaccine for swine flu …

143650 ▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1540 of 2914 🔗

Fat chance… the Telegraph is awash with barmy wimmin, trannies and nonces.

143754 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, #1541 of 2914 🔗

Piers Morgans wife writes weekly hysterical articles for the Telegraph every week. Bizarre they would get someone who clearly supports big government and the removal of personal freedoms to write for them.

143467 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1542 of 2914 🔗

A local restaurant have posted a Facebook update RE: 10pm curfew and have said bookings will be for earlier so the Gestapo don’t get us. It made me laugh but then I remembered it’s not far from the truth…

143477 ▶▶ Ian, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1543 of 2914 🔗

I have just cancelled a booking for 5 people I had made for Saturday evening. I’m sure many others will be doing the same. Very very sad. Very very sinister.

143478 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to nocheesegromit, #1544 of 2914 🔗

They seem to have misunderstood. Boris Johnson told the House that 10pm is the time of closing, not last orders. He said that was for the sake of clarity (ie, enforcement).

143487 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Steve Hayes, #1545 of 2914 🔗

I think they understand the rules, my wording just wasn’t clear, i.e. they’re not accepting bookings for 9pm onwards so they can escape before the Gestapo arrives.

143504 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #1546 of 2914 🔗

And that’s another thing they don’t understand – how the hospitality industry works. You don’t just close and turn the ‘open’ sign round. There can be several hours’ of clearing up to be done. So that, potentially means turfing customers out well before the new closing time.

Yet again, real world inexperience which makes their ridiculous diktats all the more infuriating for those of us having to implement them.

143552 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to kh1485, #1547 of 2914 🔗

I think the punters have to be out by 22.00 hrs -clearing up can happen after.

143595 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to arfurmo, #1548 of 2914 🔗

Oh, I thought the place had to be shut up entirely by 22.00 hrs.

143606 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, #1549 of 2914 🔗

With respect to you both both replies goes to show what a complete load of bollocks the new rules are. Completely impossible to decipher.

143697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to kh1485, #1550 of 2914 🔗

I thought the place had to be shut up entirely by 22.00 hrs.

That is what Boris told the House.

143610 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to arfurmo, #1551 of 2914 🔗

By Boris’s ‘logic’ that means the virus will attack the staff once the punters have left!

143474 dpj, replying to dpj, 8, #1552 of 2914 🔗

That’s the wee dictator announced her new rules then. Am I right in saying that the no visiting other households is only guidance? As someone who lives on my own there will no football or concerts to go to for a while, going to church, cinemas or restaurants has been completely ruined so only way to meet friends is to invite them here so fully intend to keep doing that.

143493 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to dpj, 12, #1553 of 2914 🔗

Please keep on having your friends round. I live alone and became very profoundly unhappy, actually despairing, during Lockdown Mark 1. It’s inhuman and intolerable to be forced to be alone all the time.

143517 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Alethea, 4, #1554 of 2914 🔗

Definitely. I’ve never turned anyone away the whole time. As far as I’m concerned who is or isn’t welcome in my home is up to me. I would not do anything to put myself or others at risk but it’s now become very obvious I’m not.
Allowing the binge drinkers to carry on pretty much as usual (closing pubs at 10 hardly going to bother them) while telling others to have no human contact is pure evil.

143475 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 3, #1555 of 2914 🔗

Can anyone doubt that the movie Contagion is a very good template for all this?

Although 10 years old talk is of ‘social distancing’ ‘washing hands frequently’ ‘mask wearing’ etc. etc. Eerily reminiscent of what is happening now.

Bu to imagine this all a coincidence results in much cognitive dissonance.

143488 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 1, #1556 of 2914 🔗

Quite correct; I watched it a few weeks ago and was struck by its unsettling prescience.

143522 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 1, #1557 of 2914 🔗

Only difference is that the disease in Contagion was a genuine threat to humanity, I remember 25-30% IFR and 60 million dead worldwide being quoted in the film.

143543 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Seansaighdeoir, #1558 of 2914 🔗

That was actually about a dangerous virus though.

143480 nocheesegromit, 4, #1559 of 2914 🔗

Just had an email from Big Brother Watch urging people to email their MPs to repeal Section 21 of the Act. Template is on their website if anyone is interested.

143486 Daniel, 1, #1560 of 2914 🔗

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom?view=mask-use&tab=trend

Who comes up with those predictions? Crazy stuff

143492 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1561 of 2914 🔗

Genuine question:Does anybody know if shop staff such as my son who is exempt from wearing face masks ( panic attacks) will “have” to wear them at work?

143507 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1562 of 2914 🔗

The government is intent on sowing confusion and fear. The face mask mandate has exemptions for people who cannot wear them, although they would prefer it if even they forced themselves to comply. Part of their modus operandi is to get compliance by peer pressure. Does your son still have the same reaction to visors? This may be a practical solution for him as many people in shops are wearing them already.

143546 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1563 of 2914 🔗

Thank you Harry for your reply, our son has had many problems in his life but though sheer hard work and help and encouragement from my wife and myself manages to hold down a job and live independently.
We have just ordered 2 quality visors online, if there are problems with peer pressure, etc.
The worst part of this situation is our son used to be a staunch Tory supporter who would literally “crawl over broken glass” to give them his vote.
He has said that he will never vote ever again for any candidate.
TOGETHER, WE MUST END THIS MADNESS, whatever your political persuasion: Unite!!

143563 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1564 of 2914 🔗

Very best wishes to you, your wife and your son Philip. Testing times for all of us and even more so for those who struggle with life to start with.

143618 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1565 of 2914 🔗

Thank you Harry for your kind words.

143544 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1566 of 2914 🔗

Yes he is exempt. He will need to speak up and sort it out with his employer. Might be useful to print the exemption regulations and hand it to the employer so that they know what he is talking about. The employer will need to treat this under their disability protection policy.

143555 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Victoria, #1567 of 2914 🔗

Thank you Victoria for your kind and useful reply; I refer you to the reply I send to Harry Hopkins.

143554 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1568 of 2914 🔗

The business cannot force him to wear one.

Just had this conversation with some staff in a car dealership I know well and they are being told compulsory masks for staff are coming and they are not happy so gave them pointers on who to fight it using health and safety law, risks assessments, lack of science and so on.

https://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/time-to-blow-the-whistle-on-shops/ – plus there another couple of posts about the subject as well.

143567 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Awkward Git, #1569 of 2914 🔗

Thank you for your kind reply, I refer you to the reply I sent to Harry Hopkins.

143590 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1570 of 2914 🔗

It covers England.

143615 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Awkward Git, #1571 of 2914 🔗

Thanks.

143600 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1572 of 2914 🔗

You hope that the employer would allow a visor as a reasonable compromise, although I worry that shops will find ‘reasons’ for simply making mask-exempt staff redundant (pretending it is due to downturn in business)..

143565 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1573 of 2914 🔗

Where are you? I used to know the Scottish law, but it has probably changed in the few weeks I’ve not needed to care about it. Context – was fired recently for refusing to wear a mask.

143572 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to ikaraki, #1574 of 2914 🔗

My son works in the West Midlands.

143577 ▶▶▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1575 of 2914 🔗

Ah okay. Not sure then, sorry.

My advice would be to tell him to tread gently. There seems to be a large number of people in the world of work right now willing to tow the line, middle level management and above especially. Things got a bit out of hand in my instance, made a stand, the midge net wasn’t appreciated..

143614 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to ikaraki, #1576 of 2914 🔗

Thank you for your kind advice.

143496 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1577 of 2914 🔗

If we are good citizens, we may just be able to enjoy Easter 2021.

i have got to have some hope or I will head to a level crossing

143978 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dave #KBF, #1578 of 2914 🔗

Enjoy Christmas too. No matter what the Nazis say.

143509 Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 10, #1579 of 2914 🔗

Does there really need to be any more sophisticated an argument against masks than to say it’s like trying to catch marbles in a football net?

In terms of scale, that is the literal truth.

143521 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, 2, #1580 of 2914 🔗

Yes there does, because the mask works at the micro level. It will stop a cough projection.

The problem is that it suffers from a fallacy of composition. You’re not wearing it all the time, changing it and disposing of it in a safe manner. And that stops it working due to network effects.

As we can see by the amount of viral sort throats running around secondary schools. If all this biosecurity was of any use then that virus spread wouldn’t be happening.

143541 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Lucan Grey, 4, #1581 of 2914 🔗

But most people would not cough into the open air -they would put their hand over their mouth or similar.

143585 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #1582 of 2914 🔗

Rhetorically speaking, you’re letting yourself get drawn into the quagmire.

Trying to catch marbles in a football net.

Ordinary folk can understand that, and when you show the pitch of fabric in masks and the size of the virus particles, they can see it too.

143625 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #1583 of 2914 🔗

I can’t remember who said it but the best description I have heard is “wearing a mask is like putting up an umbrella to stop it raining.”

143691 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, #1584 of 2914 🔗

The scale is all wrong. The virus is much, much smaller than a marble in comparison to a football net.

143887 ▶▶▶ Robert Siermothersbrother, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #1585 of 2914 🔗

Well yes, but what we need is an analogy your normal man & woman in the street can wrap their tiny brain around.

Net big, marble small is all that matters, right? Arguing about scale is just a distraction. As an autist I see the appeal of pedantry, but I’ve learned that it doesn’t do any good. Quite the opposite in fact, when it comes to rhetoric.

143971 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Robert Siermothersbrother, #1586 of 2914 🔗

If masks worked, we wouldn’t need all this crap announced last week and today!

143510 petgor, 12, #1587 of 2914 🔗

It is now official. The UK has effectively been consigned to the dustbin of history. And the majority of my fellow Britons will allow it to happen without so much as a whimper.

143516 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #1588 of 2914 🔗

Former Nurse Joy Gill – 22 September 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbs8_kJDhrQ

SPECTATOR – Time to come out in full opposition to all Covid Restriction – no spouting BOJO propaganda

143518 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 73, #1589 of 2914 🔗

Out and about in hobbycraft today.

As we were heading for the checkouts my wife was behind me and I heard her say something. Turned around and saw her heading to a mid-sixties couple with a scotty dog in a trolley saying “what did you say?”.

Then what happened (roughly):

  • heard “mumble mumble mumble”
  • wife said “What? Was that why are we not wearing masks?”
  • heard “mumble mumble mumble”
  • Wife said “I’m exempt” thrusts her lanyard into his face then goes “you have no right to question me”.
  • Wife turns back to me and I heard “mumble mumble mumble”
  • I asked “what was that you sanctimonious wanker?”
  • heard “mumble mumble mumble”
  • Wife says “he’s lips reading, what’s your problem?”
  • checkout lady asked is everything OK?
  • I said “yes”, wife says “no, he’s just questioned me and has no right to”
  • I go up to him and say quietly “you’ve just left yourself ope