2020-09-23

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/09/23/latest-news-142/
Published2020-09-23T01:23:47
Last updated2020-09-23T01:29:21
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:06
Articles19
Comments1,950
Users308

Articles

Comments

145017 parsnip, replying to parsnip, 81, #1 of 1950 🔗

Stand ye calm and resolute,
Like a forest close and mute,
With folded arms and looks which are
Weapons of unvanquished war,
And let Panic, who outspeeds
The career of armèd steeds
Pass, a disregarded shade
Through your phalanx undismayed.

Solidarity from a lockdown skeptic in the US. Stay strong.

145347 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to parsnip, 4, #2 of 1950 🔗

Thanks, very helpful.

145421 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to parsnip, 5, #3 of 1950 🔗

That’s lovely Parsnip. My husband (Catholic), said today it was ‘Padro Pio’ anniversary today?
Pray, hope, don’t worry!
Oh dear ones, please let this be so.

145466 ▶▶ Marina Peerman, replying to parsnip, 1, #4 of 1950 🔗

On a more important note, please my I steal your username? Anyway thanks for the words. Stay strong yourself.

145596 ▶▶ Hopeful, replying to parsnip, 22, #5 of 1950 🔗

Hi Parsnip,
Thanks for that. I really needed it today. Boris is determined to kill businesses. Bill just wants to kill us. Resistance songs are being written (Van Morrison, Ian Brown), more people are waking up, some MPs are speaking out, one legal fight still has breath, great people are standing up and standing out against the tyranny. Solidarity for liberty and freedom across the world…it belongs to us all.

145018 BobT, replying to BobT, 117, #6 of 1950 🔗

A line has been crossed today when the Prime Minister said he would use the Army, presumably to intimidate or control the people.

The British system of democratic government is respected and has been exported over most of Planet Earth with a few changes. Some replaced their head of state with an elected individual and called themselves a Republic. England decided to keep their heads of state as the Monarchy who eventually relinquished most of their power to the elected government of the people. Nevertheless, they retained absolute power just in case their government made decisions which caused unacceptable damage to the country. If ever their was a time for the Monarch to intervene, it is now.

The UK military swear allegience to Queen, not the government. It is now time for the Queen (or her successors or heirs) to make her position clear to the people and a statement like this would be appropriate.

“I will never, ever turn my soldiers, sailors and airmen against my own people in any circumstances. My armed forces are for the protection of myself and the freedoms of my countymen and women from foreign aggression. I repeat that I will never use my armed forces against my own people”.

Queen Elisabeth, we are begging you to ensure that your military are not allowed to use the power of the Crown to further remove the freedoms and wellbeing of your subjects. If your Government continue with their intention to remove our rights as human beings then your duty as Head of State is to remove them from office.

145027 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BobT, 10, #7 of 1950 🔗

It can be done Bobt.
In 1975 Australia was having a constitutional crisis which the Governor General resolved by removing the Labour government, headed by Gough Whitlam, from power even though he had a clear majority in the lower house.

Labour then lost the ensuing election by a landslide, had they not done so Australia would soon have become a republic.

145549 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to karenovirus, 8, #8 of 1950 🔗

I was a teenager when this happened, well done you for remembering! Having said that where Is the Queen ? We have heard nothing from her, as we would usually? So what is going on?

145094 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to BobT, 28, #9 of 1950 🔗

The line was crossed long ago. A branch of the army, the SS (Seventy Seventh) brigade, have been attacking us on social media for a long time. Fortunately, they are poorly equipped, with limited intelligence, and rather ineffective. It is unlikely their physical counterparts will be so easily overcome.

145133 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to PastImperfect, 14, #10 of 1950 🔗

They’ve got it covered the army, they’ve been taken extra lessons for a while and now some of them can count to six

145791 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Biker, 2, #11 of 1950 🔗

Yes.
Squaddie: 1,2,6!

145444 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to PastImperfect, 5, #12 of 1950 🔗

Yes they’re easy to spot and they do surface on this site from time to time.

145110 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BobT, 34, #13 of 1950 🔗

This more than anything should be the grounds to charge Johnson and that odious Tobias Ellwood of treason.

To use the armed forces to turn on the people is the height of irresponsibility and not only damages the goodwill between the armed forces and the people but also damages their standing.

Once that goodwill and standing is gone, it will be hard for the armed forces to regain it. People will never trust them again and will tell them and the charities associated with them to go hang.

To the Army, Royal Navy, RAF and the Marines – is that what you want?

145249 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Bart Simpson, 16, #14 of 1950 🔗

Tobias Ellwood, odious. Bit weak. I call him the minister of list causes: supporter of May, supporter of Rory Stewart, supporter of the parliament square BLM protest during lockdown, arch Remainer despite his constituents repeated vote to Leave.

145420 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to petgor, 7, #15 of 1950 🔗

His constituents should know what to do – vote him out.

145472 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #16 of 1950 🔗

Will they ever get the chance?

145993 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #17 of 1950 🔗

No way. He seems to have ironclad support here.

146073 ▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #18 of 1950 🔗

I tried that. The problem is that Corbyn was the only other option. Ellwood knowing how I felt about him, promised to support Johnson and Brexit. For that reason I voted for Ellwood. However ecently, just to add injury to insult, Ellwood announced to the media that he would get a number of other MP’s together in order to prevent us leaving the EU without a deal.

Mind you I am now wondering whether Boris will use the six month Covid extension to delay our leaving.

145992 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to petgor, 2, #19 of 1950 🔗

Ellwood a Remainer? I’m a Remainer and unfortunately I live in his constituency. I’ve sent him many messages on the subject and every reply stressed his support for Brexit.

145470 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #20 of 1950 🔗

The Army should arrest Johnson and his motley crew, as Cressida Dick won’t do the decent thing. The death penalty still exists for treason and it could hardly be more fitting. In its efforts to satisfy Bill Gates, this massively corrupte government has cold bloodily murdered tens of thousands of its own people. Next up Gates’s liability free genocidal vaccines. We are in very deep trouble.

145720 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rowan, 8, #21 of 1950 🔗

Cressida Dick is also knee deep in it. Another one who should be arrested and sent to the Tower.

146329 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #22 of 1950 🔗

Agreed and of course she has a very dodgy past. She is the one who had Charles de Menezes shot to death in a railway carriage for the crimes of going to work and looking well tanned.

146530 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Rowan, 1, #23 of 1950 🔗

And he knew it was all a scam. The man who knew too much.

146899 ▶▶▶▶ Caroline Kaye, replying to Rowan, 1, #24 of 1950 🔗

Sadly it doesn’t. Blair saw to that.

145848 ▶▶▶ Staincliffe, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #25 of 1950 🔗

As the demonstrators chanted to the police at the weekend “CHOOSE YOUR SIDE”

145111 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to BobT, 5, #26 of 1950 🔗

Can we petition the queen to ask her to do this?

145475 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to HelzBelz, 8, #27 of 1950 🔗

She’s in on it. Remember Prince Phillip wishing he could come as a deadly virus and wipe us all out. He wasn’t joking.

145220 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to BobT, 16, #28 of 1950 🔗

Got no confidence in Charles, he is a champagne globalist and wants ‘the people’ controlled so we don’t destroy his planet

145476 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #29 of 1950 🔗

And so’s his father.

145566 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #30 of 1950 🔗

totally agree, would have thought Camilla would have worn him out, but dont think so, he is nuts.

146260 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #31 of 1950 🔗

Watch this. Prince Charles recently at Davos meeting:
https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-23rd-september-2020

145265 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to BobT, 2, #32 of 1950 🔗

the army were deployed a couple of years ago during a terrorist emergency. They mainly supported police outside Parliament, 10 Downing street and the home office though they were unarmed.

145303 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to BobT, 1, #33 of 1950 🔗

Is this another crazed attempt to emulate Churchill, who used the military against the UK population more than once ?

145440 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to BobT, 4, #34 of 1950 🔗

And what if the Crown is very content with Boris Johnson and his wrecking gang?

145019 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, #35 of 1950 🔗

2nd?

145021 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 25, #36 of 1950 🔗

The army will not fire on the people

They hate the politicians more than we do

The pig dictator has not yet realised that the game is up

145023 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 31, #37 of 1950 🔗

He knows he can no longer rely on the police

Demoralised after twelve years of pay cuts

20,000 of the most experienced officers sacked in the purges conducted by Cameron and May

If you want a KPI, not one corona law prosecution since March, yep, not one in 7 months

The games up fat boy

145029 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 5, #38 of 1950 🔗

That’s because they weren’t proper laws and why they pretended that several different Police forces had made the same unlikely mistake of charging Englsh people under laws that only applied in Wales as their reason for not prosecuting.

Pull the other one, any half decent desk Sergeant would have spotted that.

145123 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, 16, #39 of 1950 🔗

Exactly. The police were burned when they tried to enforce the social distancing measures back in March/April – people fought back and the courts nullified the fines that were imposed.

Hence why the police have not strictly enforced anything else, they know they’re not proper laws and the precedent has been set.

Threatening to use the army is a desperate gamble. They must know this.

More than anything this should be one of the ground to charge Johnson with treason.

145480 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 1, #40 of 1950 🔗

Don’t rely on Cressida Dick to do the right thing.

145604 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Rowan, 1, #41 of 1950 🔗

She has form for authorising extra judicial executions.

145034 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 19, #42 of 1950 🔗

Well said. His threat to turn the army against the people smacks of desperation.
Tienamen Square to Trafalgar Square?

145098 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to annie, 14, #43 of 1950 🔗

Trafalgar Square this Saturday Sept. 26, 12 Noon. Spread the word. Go with friends.

145119 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to PastImperfect, 7, #44 of 1950 🔗

it needs to be millions of people.

145226 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Biker, 29, #45 of 1950 🔗

There wont be..I will be there of course but if there is more than 35K that will be an amazing result..Most people are complete sheep and will just put their heads down and do what they are told 1984 style. I was commuting to London this morning ( as every day) and on quite a full train I was the only person not wearing a mask.A pregnant woman came on and most of the seats were take ( i was on a bank of 5 all free!) she looked around, looked at me and then decided to stand for another 20 min..You could see she was struggling and if she sat down we would be at least 6 feet apart..but NO..This is what they have done,a step from wearing a yellow star on our chest.

145038 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Cecil B, 1, #46 of 1950 🔗

They were quite happy to fire on Catholics in Northern Ireland.

145041 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 12, #47 of 1950 🔗

The army was sent into NI originally to protect Catholics against attacks by Protestants. Who will they be protecting in Trafalgar Square?

145051 ▶▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to annie, 3, #48 of 1950 🔗

Their common purpose officers

145044 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ewan Duffy, 14, #49 of 1950 🔗

They did and here you have found the problem with using the army in a police role. Troops aren’t policemen. Their training is to identify an enemy and then take steps to defeat that enemy. In the absence of clear political direction, putting armed troops on the streets often leads to disaster when intentions are misunderstood. And we both know where that ended, in the case of Northern Ireland.

145020 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 21, #50 of 1950 🔗

Keep the fight the guys.

Don’t give up and spread the message.

145057 ▶▶ CGL, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #51 of 1950 🔗

I tried yesterday – not 1 person converted. They all just think I’ve gone mad.

145082 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to CGL, 27, #52 of 1950 🔗

They all just think I’ve gone mad – as they wash their hands for the fortieth time that day and put on their cloth face mask to ward off the invisible enemy.

145127 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #53 of 1950 🔗

Unfortunately people like that are far gone. They can no longer be reasoned with.

145125 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to CGL, 18, #54 of 1950 🔗

Pick on a few facts (false positives, mask ineffectiveness and dangers, low hospitalisation rates) and keep hammering away. If you’re old and decrepit, like me, welcome anyone who turns 60 to the DNR club.

My success rate is pretty low, too, but it ain’t gonna stop me.

145215 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to PastImperfect, 8, #55 of 1950 🔗

I’m not yet old and decrepit no, and tbh I cant see me getting that far – although if i do i am sure I will do an excellent job of being the the most obstinate and cantankerous of old ladies!

145358 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PastImperfect, 6, #56 of 1950 🔗

The All Causes Of Death pie charts from yesterday’s funnies is very effective, even people who think graphs are complicated can see what a pie chart is.

145232 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to CGL, 6, #57 of 1950 🔗

Same here..my wife told me to stop with my conspiracies’ , the government just want what is best for us.

145313 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Thomas_E, 13, #58 of 1950 🔗

Yes, don’t worry, our Government is in full control of their actions, they know what they are doing, all they want is to do the very best they can to keep us safe and healthy.

They are getting their advice by some of the most skilled and intelligent medical people they can possibly find and everything they do is guided by these experts. There is no political agendas at play, its all simply about keeping a dangerous virus under control.

Things look a bit strange right now but that’s because silly old Boris is in charge lol! 🙂

When the vaccine is ready it will be perfectly safe as all vaccines are and nobody will be forced to have it.

Everybody is tracked all the time now anyway with their mobile phones so don’t worry about this silly passport thing either, its just like having a driving licence or something.

Finally with nobody going to work any more we can also stop the planet getting too hot and we can save large parts of the world from going under the sea because of the ice in the North Pole melting.

It’s not all bad, commuting to work everyday was unpleasant for everybody, so was going into the office, so really it is much better now being at getting paid by the government, it’s a much better work/life balance.

There isn’t any kind of conspiracy going on at all, why would all the other governments of the world do the same thing as us if it was a Conspiracy theory?

East enders is back on now apparently so we are back to normal now anyway. Don’t worry.

145641 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Two-Six, 5, #59 of 1950 🔗

Thank you, I already feel better..have to dash, 2 minute of hate against anti-maskers is about to be on BBC,ITV,C4,C5,DAVE,SKY

145489 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Thomas_E, #60 of 1950 🔗

She is unmanageable, move out.

145243 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to CGL, 51, #61 of 1950 🔗

Everyone

Please don’t worry

I have not posted on the forum for a very longtime, I directly communicate to Toby and Will.

Our views are important and making a big difference. When I speak with people they tell me they were fooled in March/April and see what has happened in since especially

  • NHS
  • Sweden
  • Carl Heneghan , Sunetra Gupta and Karol Sikora now making a big stand

I have asked Toby to use the Blower dartboard cartoon from 29 July 2020. The government don’t know what they are doing

Even the news coverage have moved look at the BBC with the Newsnight

The Times newspaper, even the readers IF you read the comments.

Apart from Sky News. Sky is begging for hospital admissions (they have to use May footage!). They have been going all over the world for the next horror story, Mexico, Brazil.

Boris thinks 6 months – it won’t last 6 weeks.
People are already going others houses. My next door has people coming and going, will I ring the police? NO

Hang in there.

145498 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #62 of 1950 🔗

Those that snitch are asking for a brick through the window.

145717 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #63 of 1950 🔗

I so hope that you are right.

146975 ▶▶▶▶ David Comrie, replying to HawkAnalyst, #64 of 1950 🔗

I’ve a window that overlooks Stirling Castle – a former barracks for the Argyll and Southern Highlanders. If they choose, it’d be a battle. My son’s 25 years old, his girlfriend, 24, with future together. Over my f….g corp. If they feel they want to meet that, I’ll be there with, I’m sure, insurmountable numbers.Cough that up, ye wankerati. (Apols. for lang but…).

145022 stewart, replying to stewart, 40, #65 of 1950 🔗

Well, there we have it.

The government has announced its plan to introduce mass surveillance of the population with the excuse of suppressing a not very dangerous virus.

Announced yesterday in the House of Commons by Boris Johnson.

145165 ▶▶ jb12, replying to stewart, 5, #66 of 1950 🔗

As has been pretty evident since at least as far back as April.

145623 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to stewart, 2, #67 of 1950 🔗

What, you mean the T&T rubbish?

145025 karenovirus, 10, #68 of 1950 🔗

I mentioned yesterday that, in addition to ferguson’s dodgy modeling, we ourselves are being modelled as they try to predict and control how we will react to their measures.

I remembered this

‘The Trap, What Happened To Our Dream Of Freedom’.

(Gogle gives the wiki entry, the episode summaries are well worth reading in full, as the saying goes).

Three one hour documentary series which shows the beginnings of the undemocratic mess we find ourselves in.

Starting in the cold war with John Nash (A Beautiful Mind) and his F*ck You Buddy game in which the only way to win was to always betray your fellow player.
They tested this on their (female) secretaries who all cooperated so the model failed. It was concluded that the secretaries were unfit subjects for the test.

The Rosenham Experiment in which hundreds of thousands of Americans were tested by a tick box computer model which concluded that over 50% had mental disorders, a ‘hidden epidemic’.

How they developed lists of “psychological symptoms which might indicate anxiety or depression…were being used to normalize human behaviour and make human beings behave more predictably, like robots” (anxiety induced by lockdown, masks ?).

How starting under Mrs Thatcher but ramped up by Tony Blair, vast swathes of the public sector came under plethora of targets, quotas and plans. The workers cheated to achieve these goals, many UK examples are given (especially NHS) but the most outrageous was US soldiers shooting Vietnamese civilians to reach their body count.

Yet still they don’t get that we do not react in the way their models predict.
BBC2 2007, so it can only have got worse since then.

145026 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 57, #69 of 1950 🔗

CAN WE PLEASE UNDERSTAND PROPERLY WHAT’S HAPPENING IN SPAIN

Over the 7 days to 17 September, 683,322 tests were carried out of which 56,785 were positive (8.3%).

So you would expect 8.3% of the roughly 1,150 daily deaths in Spain to be tested positive (presumably nearly all people who die would have been tested in the last 28 days), which is 95 people per day, if the COVID virus had no effect whatsoever.

In fact, 468 people died with positive tests in the last 7 days (67 per day), a lower proportion than those who had it in the tested sample of the population.

SO THE FACT IS THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER FROM THE OFFICIAL FIGURES OF AN UPTICK IN SPAIN

It is not enough to say that the deaths in Spain are below the level of when the pandemic was happening – there is no evidence of an increase in deaths at all from these figures. My guess is there is a minimal uptick as in the UK but there is as yet no evidence in the death numbers.

However, the government is turning the military on us, schools are being shut, businesses are being destroyed, cancer patients are being left to die, and Spain is being used as an excuse.

THANK YOU Boris and our wonderful government.

145084 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Laurence, 13, #70 of 1950 🔗

There is another factor about Spain and that is, despite being very sunny, it has one of the highest rates of vitamin D deficiency in Europe. Which could be significant.

145130 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to p02099003, 4, #71 of 1950 🔗

I wonder why that is. You would have thought that Spaniards would have one of the lowest rates of Vitamin D deficiency.

Could it be something to do with smoking? Siesta?

145162 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #72 of 1950 🔗

In Spain, typically only barmy foreigners are out in the blazing sun. Spaniards generally stay in the shade and come out in the evening when it’s cool. That’s in the summer, anyway.

145167 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 5, #73 of 1950 🔗

I can understand that logic. I come from a country in SE Asia which has the double whammy of heat and humidity – we tend to avoid the sun especially in the summer and during high noon.

146004 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to stewart, #74 of 1950 🔗

Same in the US. Most Americans stay inside in their air conditioned homes during the heat of the day. Greatest amount of time outdoors is the dash from the front door to the car.

145507 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #75 of 1950 🔗

The average Spaniard wears dark clothes and keeps out of the sun. Some of the young are not sun shy, but it is not the young that are not at risk.

145170 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to p02099003, 11, #76 of 1950 🔗

If you are forced to wear your mask for hours outside and at the workplace, Covid infections will proliferate and rise, through poor hygiene and through inhaling the exhaled virus particles again.
Simples.

145194 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jay Berger, 8, #77 of 1950 🔗

And if its hot, the sweat will be trapped inside the mask leading not only to trapped particles but a breeding ground for bacteria in the skin to develop into rashes, impetigo, dermatitis, etc.

145858 ▶▶ MRG, replying to Laurence, 1, #78 of 1950 🔗

I wonder if that’s because the test regime is like here: hospital tests and analyses (Pillar 1) are carried out by more qualified labs (and staff) than the (Pillar 2) tests on the general public? Fewer false positives from the hospital tests?

146589 ▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to MRG, #79 of 1950 🔗

Hospital tests are done on all admisssions currently COVID suspects or not.I imagine they are all done in the same place, in a regional centre.

145028 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 6, #80 of 1950 🔗

Last week a government bossy boots said on Radio 4
“what are supposed to do ? We just want to get them out (of the pubs) before they get so drunk they start falling over each other”.

In my pub going days I would generally arrive at about 9.30pm, have a swift pint, take my time with the second and finish the third* by closing time (then uniformly 11pm in London, 10.30 Sundays).
What cunning plan might I have adopted to foil the governments evil new restrictions ?

*yes I know, ‘problem drinker’ according to to (soon to be replaced by another version of itself) Public Health England.

146257 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 2, #81 of 1950 🔗

I live next door to a pub. It does not have much capacity at any time, but a popular courtyard. No-one has been getting excessively drunk since they re-opened, although it is popular with young people and Americans from the nearby airbase.

145030 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 11, #82 of 1950 🔗

For covid marshals read brownshirts, roaming the streets beating people up

145137 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to 2 pence, 4, #85 of 1950 🔗

When I see ‘Advisor’ on their shirts, I just see ‘Twat’.

145035 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 3, #86 of 1950 🔗

Has anybody here had an encounter with a Covid Womble?

145104 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Cecil B, 1, #87 of 1950 🔗

I would love the the opportunity to reciprocate……..

145134 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Cecil B, 1, #88 of 1950 🔗

Talk softly and carry a big stick?

145330 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, #89 of 1950 🔗

Who pays for these people – local or central gov ?

145376 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, #90 of 1950 🔗

Local government

146085 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 1, #91 of 1950 🔗

Thanks karen. So I know who to send my coruscating email to. 🙂

146296 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #92 of 1950 🔗

Some local authorities have already said they’ve no money to employ them.

146936 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #93 of 1950 🔗

🙂

‘no money’ or the vestigial remains of some common sense ?

145518 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 1, #94 of 1950 🔗

Covid Marshal is another way of saying snitch.

145526 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 1, #95 of 1950 🔗

We are entering even stranger times, it has to stop.

145031 2 pence, replying to 2 pence, 5, #96 of 1950 🔗

This is the gelatinous f**kwit you’re supposed to believe today, when he tells you to destroy what’s left of the economy to save Granny. A guy who can’t differentiate between football and rugby.

https://twitter.com/RichieAllenShow/status/1308499902658490369

145050 ▶▶ CGL, replying to 2 pence, 17, #97 of 1950 🔗

In my experience Granny doesn’t want her 18 year old grandchildren committing suicide.

145036 annie, replying to annie, 30, #98 of 1950 🔗

Heartening to see the slew of well-liked sceptical comments under Farage’s article in the Express.
Calls for a new political party are growing. Could Nigel’s frequently-renamed party take on the job? I have voted for his lot in the past. and would do so again.

145061 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 5, #99 of 1950 🔗

I received a reply from Nigel to my point that I hoped he was “on manoeuvres” and it was very downbeat. Not his usual ebullient self. And that worried me.

145131 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to kh1485, 2, #100 of 1950 🔗

What was the gist of Nigel’s reply KH? Interested to know….

145198 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #101 of 1950 🔗

Short, but to the point:

All very grim for small businesses. Normality is a long way off I am sorry to say.

145218 ▶▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to kh1485, 1, #102 of 1950 🔗

Hmm. Disappointing.

145228 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to kh1485, 4, #103 of 1950 🔗

It’s not really surprising. He must be worn out, physically and mentally and he’s savvy enough to know that he can’t win this one. The time to be on manoevres is when we get a chance to get rid of this lot at the next election (and yes, I know that democracy is suspended at the moment).

146302 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bumble, 1, #104 of 1950 🔗

We can’t wait till the next election. At things are going, it will be too late in six months.

145088 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to annie, 4, #105 of 1950 🔗

I could never vote for any party with a Farage connection. There has to be a better option.

145138 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to The Spingler, 5, #106 of 1950 🔗

Let me guess you think he’s racist and blah blah blah. Here’s another of the shills. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel at the moment.

146009 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Biker, 1, #107 of 1950 🔗

Actually I think he’s a flaming asshole who makes me feel like vomiting whenever I hear his voice. Is that better? I know you like being direct.

145233 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to The Spingler, 1, #108 of 1950 🔗

But there isn’t, that’s the situation we find ourselves in.

145534 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to The Spingler, #109 of 1950 🔗

Johnson?

146008 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to The Spingler, #110 of 1950 🔗

Exactly. I couldn’t vote that way either. A more neutral stance would appeal to more people.

145258 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to annie, 5, #111 of 1950 🔗

Can we please stop expecting Nigel Farage to do anything. He’s a divisive figure who’s first thought is actually for himself. And why not, now, eh? To all intents and purposes, he’s done what he set out to do. And any second now, he’ll bugger off to the US to help Trump get re-relected.

What we need now is an inspirational figure like Lech Walesa.

Cometh the hour, cometh the (wo)man.

I hope.

145037 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 5, #112 of 1950 🔗
145509 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to Ewan Duffy, #113 of 1950 🔗

I think this is just a co-incidental correlation. Been wearing specs since I was about 10 and it hasn’t put me off touching my face. I suppose there might be some vague thing that you’re less likely to rub eyes, or else people who have myopia but haven’t got glasses/contacts yet will stand closer to others to see, or some link between glasses wearing and being less likely to be in large groups or contact sports?

146354 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ewan Duffy, #114 of 1950 🔗

276 subjects! Sounds like a bad case of correlation vs causation to me.

145039 Nsklent, replying to Nsklent, 27, #115 of 1950 🔗

So in part of Boris’ speech he stated that if the rules they have set out are not followed they reserve the right to go further- could someone please remind him, the government are there to govern ( clue in the name) not rule by threats.

145063 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nsklent, 16, #116 of 1950 🔗

So further measures will be imposed as a result of a claim that the public are not obeying the existing rules? Rather than whether the virus recedes? You could not get further from liberty and democracy if you tried.

And how are they determining whether people obey the ‘rules’? Carefully-framed photographs in tabloid papers seems to be the answer.

They are perpetrating a sleight of hand: implying that the rules self-evidently work and that a rise in ‘cases’ must mean that rules are not being followed. Rather than the ‘rules’ being flawed and the testing likewise.

145075 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 33, #117 of 1950 🔗

The real sleight of hand is the one that managed to make it established background fact that the virus is bad enough to justify any kind of rules, when the actual evidence says that it isn’t. The establishment scientists are free to explain how non-compliance and loosened restrictions will lead to a rise in infections without ever having to explain why that is less acceptable than the normal functioning of society. They are never challenged on it. Meanwhile, the more sceptical voices are forced into a position where they have to explain why the increase in “cases” isn’t real and that the fictional future projections (not a prediction, remember) don’t reflect reality and are not able to say that maybe it wouldn’t matter so very much even if they did.

The ridiculous, fallacious idea that “just one life” has infinite value and that nobody can be allowed to die specifically in this way is at the core of this. The dumb acceptance of it by the population at large, the media and the theoretical mathematicians of SAGE is the problem.

We can never get out of this while this persists and while it is genuinely believed in principle that this is a killer virus that can be defeated by government diktat and that complex rules are an effective medical tool. The virus will always be here, so we will always be imprisoned.

145089 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to matt, 11, #118 of 1950 🔗

It was quite noticeable that unless I missed it no one (dumb & dumber, boris, sturgeon) in last couple of days has mentioned any figures about what age the most vulnerable are, how probably >99% people will not die etc. All we got was some nonsense about only 8% being immune when some scientists are saying it could actually be as high as 70-80%.

145569 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to matt, 4, #119 of 1950 🔗

I don’t go along with the view that government is simply being stupid. Johnson and the rest of his evil clowns are clearly working to Bill Gate’s depopulation agenda. The coming Covid-19 vaccines are what this is all about and this message has been with us since day one. The (genocidal) vaccines, we will be told, are going to release us from the constant Covid impositions and restrictions. Not all that clever, but the masses are so frightened they will queue for hours. Others will need to be vaccinated simply to work or travel, vaccination by coercion.

145294 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #120 of 1950 🔗

The new rules are absurd and will not have any effect on virus transmission only on the ability of businesses to function.I think that is the plan,I expected worse when they rolled out the chuckle brothers but nothing much has changed.The prediction for another lockdown in October seems spot on as they can claim we are still not following the rules and with their fake graphs and dodgy tests manufacture enough evidence and consent for it.

145139 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Nsklent, 16, #121 of 1950 🔗

Tell that to Sturgeon who’s ruled i can’t visit my mother. Who the fuck dos the wee naff think she is?

145160 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Biker, 16, #122 of 1950 🔗

Louder than words.

145213 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to PastImperfect, 7, #123 of 1950 🔗

In each picture gates is the dominate person. Body language.

145342 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 7, #124 of 1950 🔗

They are both hoping that some of the money that ooooz out of Bill’s skin like a virus will infect them, see how they lean in towards him hoping to get infected with it. They would lick him if they could. Getting him all slimey and covered in dribble.

145601 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Basics, 5, #125 of 1950 🔗

Hancock has the worried grin of a man who is way out of his depth, while Gates has the knowing smile of self-satisfaction.

145963 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 7, #126 of 1950 🔗

In your situation I would have no hesitation whatsoever in visiting my mother. None.

145040 annie, replying to annie, 47, #127 of 1950 🔗

Being a compulsive reader, found myself reading the bumff on a Boots pack of face nappies.
They are made in China. That’s where the profits go.
They do not, as we all know, protect the wearer against anything whatsoever.
They can cause allergic reactions.
They are non-compostable and non-recyclable.
They must not be touched, apart from the ear loops.
They have to be binned after a single use.

If – as an estimate – the adult population of Britain is 60 million, and each of them discards one nappy per day (a fair assumption given that some people use old rags, but others use several nappies per day), that’s 420 million items of contaminated waste going into land fill every week.
Think on.

145052 ▶▶ Julian S, replying to annie, 6, #128 of 1950 🔗

Being a craven coward I do wear a mask – a disposable one. My act of rebellion is make each one last as long as possible, a month or more. I touch it and adjust it without restraint without sanitising my hands in between. I’m abiding by the letter of the law.

145095 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Julian S, 26, #129 of 1950 🔗

Last week was my first cowardly act of wearing a mask to the supermarket here in Wales. I found one on Etsy made from a single layer of cheese cloth which is so see through that you can see my mouth through it. The looks on people’s faces were priceless. My mask is very obviously of no use whatsoever which confused the sheep greatly. I was obeying the letter of law but even the most brain dead could see that the mask was pointless. Of course all masks are pointless but mine wasn’t pretending to be anything else. It made me feel slightly better for chickening out and wearing it.

145112 ▶▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to The Spingler, 7, #130 of 1950 🔗

We’re very close to the border here and it was heartbreaking when Wales brought in the masks rule too. It was, literally, a breath of fresh air to shop in Wales. No longer.

I am wary of the possible unforeseen consequences of being a law breaker and how that might impact on future opportunities both in travel and employment.

145192 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Julian S, 3, #131 of 1950 🔗

And when they hold you down and force Gates’ RNA Nanovaccine into you as is being said ‘can’t be ruled out’ by that cunt who is the Welsh FM??

145271 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jim, replying to Julian S, 3, #132 of 1950 🔗

You better wait a bit longer until there are no jobs and you’re banned from ever leaving your house.

145299 ▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Julian S, 7, #133 of 1950 🔗

R4 news this morning something like “there will now need to be close scrutiny of the extra measures in Scotland to see what difference they make”

So what “close scrutiny” did we have of the unmasked period in Wales?

We have a perfect mask experiment but is anyone analysing the data?

145343 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian S, 8, #134 of 1950 🔗

You’re not a lawbreaker, you are exempt .

146014 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to JohnB, 2, #135 of 1950 🔗

That’s what I was going to say. I carry my exemption card and wave it at people. Haven’t been hassled by anyone official yet. One asshole passenger on the bus, but no one official.

145348 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian S, 15, #136 of 1950 🔗

There is nothing more dangerous right now to the nation and its people then those that will follow any law.

145351 ▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to The Spingler, 5, #137 of 1950 🔗

At the beginning of this madness pics were posted of women in crochet masks…that looked like a fishing net. My how we laughed. I might dig out a pattern and make one.

145115 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Julian S, 11, #138 of 1950 🔗

You are part of the problem pal..

145147 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, 5, #139 of 1950 🔗

more shills than you can shake a mask at now bro now.

145614 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Biker, 12, #140 of 1950 🔗

Quite right, who are these posts supposed to be for? Wearing a mask (unless absolutely unavoidable e.g. in a health setting where you would be refused treatment without it) is an act of collaboration. No crochet, no cheesecloth, no Swedish flags. No mask, full stop.

Claiming exemption is simple and effective; you do not even have to pretend to have a disability. MW

146500 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #141 of 1950 🔗

We all need to stop collaborating!

145113 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to annie, 20, #142 of 1950 🔗

Yes, the anti plastic brigade have gone very quiet once they realised that 99% of PPE is plastic.

145136 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 23, #143 of 1950 🔗

I’ve noticed that even with cloth masks – many of them are made in China too.

Of course there are some that are made here but the fabric itself would have come from China or any other developing country.

Very spot on about the environmental damage, there has been reports about wildlife being caught in them and the masks themselves contaminating whatever they come into contact with.

The masks are a bigger hazard than single use plastic and yet nowt a peep from those supposedly concerned with the environment.

Why is that?

145314 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #144 of 1950 🔗

The local pavements are littered with the wretched things,and as for sanitiser: plastic bottles full of the stuff are replicating, along with latex gloves.

so much for reduce,reuse, recycle.

145439 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 8, #145 of 1950 🔗

Ditto – when I do my local walks I see loads of the blasted muzzles, not so much gloves now so that’s some improvement.

The other day, on my way to work one of the seats in the underground was being avoided as it had a pile of sanitiser on it. Must have spilled over from someone’s bottle.

Concern for the environment has gone out of the window.

145145 ▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 12, #146 of 1950 🔗

Everything is made in China because the evil bastards that rule over the braindead people want to use the poor Chinese as slaves to make cheap pish no one needs. They have also used them to put out of Business almost everyone else in manufacturing. The people at the top of the tree are laughing their fat asses at as. Maybe if the EU had prevented the communists of China selling in our markets we wouldn’t be in this mess.

146019 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Biker, 2, #147 of 1950 🔗

They had America sewed up years ago. All US manufacturing long gone. The EU was just an add-on for the Chinese.

145257 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to annie, 14, #148 of 1950 🔗

It’s not just the masks either, other stupid ‘Covid secure’ nonsense is creating just as much excess plastic waste. I don’t drive so for a few years now I’ve had my shopping delivered. It’s been bag free for a while now until the virus bollocks hit. Every week now the shopping is delivered in at least 20 carrier bags, some with only one small item in.
Last week I visited a cafe for a cuppa and a cake. I was sitting in but the cake came in a plastic box. It was a deliciously heavily iced cupcake so rather messy to eat without a fork. I asked for a plate and fork only to be told that they didn’t have them. It’s a cafe FFS. The waitress did then bring me a pile of paper napkins and a plastic fork. There was no recycling of these with everything going into one bin. The environmental cost of this pan dem ic is huge, yet somehow deemed acceptable.

145633 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 7, #149 of 1950 🔗

People we speak to have agreed with us about this, too. Hairdressers are required to use disposable aprons and towels – at great expense – and the recycling stations that used to be in local supermarkets for things like toothpaste tubes and batteries have disappeared. Another issue that fails to make any sense. MW

146377 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #150 of 1950 🔗

I’ve never understood the disposable towels rule. Towels can be hotwashed very easily, so shouldn’t be a problem.
I guess it proves that the rule-makers haven’t a clue what they’re talking about.

145736 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 4, #151 of 1950 🔗

Well said. My workplace has spent so much money on cloths, antibacterial spray, antibac wipes, gloves, etc. Out of principle I refuse to use the wipes and am unable to use the gloves and the chemicals from the spray are causing the lettering in the interpretation panels to flake off.

At some point they will have to replace the panels at great cost when we should not have been cleaning them in the first place.

145523 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to annie, 8, #152 of 1950 🔗

It’s been interesting to observe round where I live that in recent weeks the litter louts have been dropping not only the nasty blue things but now ‘nice’ cloth and patterned ones too. How delightful for someone’s cat, or threatened species like hedgehogs to deal with, especially as nobody will pick them up and take to a proper bin.

145742 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, 4, #153 of 1950 🔗

Yep. Saw a few “fetching” cloth ones while walking in Hampstead Heath, feel sorry for the birds and small mammals that could get trapped in them.

145042 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 8, #154 of 1950 🔗

No surprise to see Chivers wading in on the govt side. I can remember him from the old telegraph blogs advocating censorship before that idea had even taken off.

Same with his blind loyalty to darwinian evolution.

145047 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 5, #155 of 1950 🔗

Blind loyalty to manmade climate change too

145354 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 11, #156 of 1950 🔗

I read his article rather quickly with a view to putting him right in his comments section if necessary. But actually it’s pretty reasonable.

It’s important to get the argument straight and not rely on claims one doesn’t need to make a point that can be more easily attacked.

The facts are that the vast majority of the government tests are false positives, but also that prevalence is going up a bit, as we can tell from the ONS. If the real prevalence goes up that will probably have a dent on the government tests too. But we wouldn’t know that without the ONS as a reference.

The government data is complete junk because they are inconsistent about whom they sample and don’t even appear to record things like how many positives were asymptomatic. It also makes a mockery of T&T when you consider that the people they’re “tracking” are about 2% or less of the really infected people out there.

The main point is that an epidemic is like a firework. If it’s smouldering along, as it was all summer, it’s either because you’ve just lit it and it’s a bit damp and not getting started, or it’s because it’s already gone off. Clearly ours has already gone off. All these government trolls bleating hysterically about exponential growth do not understand it. Exponential growth has blown you away before you notice it. The real high peak of an epidemic of SARS2 has come and gone in about three weeks, which is the time these idiots spend sitting around a whiteboard debating whether people should be allowed six friends or eight. If you are in the middle of an epidemic nothing will stop it. At the peak in a country the size of the UK a few million people are infected at any one time. Sure you can try closing the pubs at 10 but you’re pissing into a hurricane.

The idea that we somehow stalled the epidemic at about 90% susceptible and held it there all summer is wildly implausible. You can stall it if you lockdown much earlier, as they did in Australia. Why you would want to is beyond me, I’m just saying you can. Timing is everything.

It’s not surprising to see a seasonal adjustment in the winter but other viruses will kill more this winter than Covid-19. Sure cases and deaths will go up but the NHS will not be overwhelmed (well not any more than it usually is because of catastrophic bad management). The lockdown didn’t work the first time, can’t work in principle, and clearly did more harm than good, so why do it again?

Good thread here on Twitter by Yardley Yeadon, idk if he’s related to Michael:

https://twitter.com/MichaelYeadon3/status/1308164416207233024

As he put it somewhere in there, we’re obviously closer to the end than to the middle. This is the key point about the epidemic that matters more than any other.

The key point about lockdowns is that they’re a terrible idea at any point . They’re actually even worse if they’re done in “in time” as we see in Australia and New Zealand.

145550 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 2, #157 of 1950 🔗

I also found Chiver’s article reasonable. His reasoning that true cases might be increasing as well as the mess of false positive and he is really not denying that other URI could mess up things. The only real objection is in the end with the usual mantra of SD being effective etc and not going into the obvious that sheltering the elderly in the only option to try. SD will only postpone the reckoning and could in the end increase the death tolls in the elderly.

145043 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 12, #158 of 1950 🔗

Unexplained excess deaths at home almost nine times higher than those from Covid
ONS figures spark concern that many are failing to get treatment for serious conditions as coronavirus crisis continues
Daily Telegraph

145053 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 28, #159 of 1950 🔗

save the NHS
Die at home

146029 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to 6097 Smith W, 3, #160 of 1950 🔗

Certainly my intention. Won’t ever get near them again by choice.

145118 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #161 of 1950 🔗

What’s the problem ? The NHS has been protected. Those people have done their bit.

145045 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #162 of 1950 🔗

HUGO RIFKIND

Cheer up — it won’t be as bad as last time

The new limits on personal freedom will be more of a hassle than a horror because we’ve come through worse already

Hugo Rifkind

Tuesday September 22 2020, 12.01am, The Times

HUGO RIFKIND – Britain’s Greatest Optimist

145054 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #163 of 1950 🔗

but of course they are now permanent

145060 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to 6097 Smith W, 11, #164 of 1950 🔗

And in less than two weeks time the tits in charge will have accused us of not following the rules and somehow see that as justification for further rules… They’ll be coming after team sports again next, that well known Vector of ill health – physical exercise… Don’t be surprised to see some hateful 5mile limit placed on us all just to copy sturgeon and wales when they’re both doing that again

Speaking of which, I feel we should all offer Nicky sturgeon a big congratulations, she’s done so well out of this having subjected Scotland to a longer and stricter lockdown than the rest of the UK claiming itd be worth it and they’d benefit from it, she’s now gone into mor restrict measures before rest of UK – totally worth it Nicky and clear evidence of how effective those measures are.

145069 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mark II, 3, #165 of 1950 🔗

Yes, living in Scotland is still like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7scMC7YSDQ

145083 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #166 of 1950 🔗

😂 I was in Edinburgh to visit a friend a couple of weeks back and it wasn’t too bad then, but when he mentioned that he couldn’t travel 5miles from home for lockdown so was basically confined to the city despite there being such glorious mountain scenery that could be safely enjoyed nearby I realised what a fucking nightmare she had inflicted on Scots… That she has widespread support still despite what she’s doing, beggars belief.

145177 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 5, #167 of 1950 🔗

Equals give up your liberties, don’t see your families, let the govt control every aspect of your lives, its all fine. Be happy pigs and the farmer may give you some extra oats just before slaughter day.

Wilful ignorance.

145692 ▶▶ nightspore, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #168 of 1950 🔗

I can think of better descriptors, beginning with “useful idiot”. I wonder if he also applauded when the BLM crowd were pulling down of statues, like Matthew Parris did a few months ago.

(At least it’s nice to see that my earlier misgivings about both of these birds have been confirmed.)

146535 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to nightspore, #169 of 1950 🔗

Yes indeed if anyone/any organisation compels you to say something or post something …. big red flag.

146411 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #170 of 1950 🔗

Greatest idiot, it would seem.

145046 JoeBlogg, replying to JoeBlogg, 6, #171 of 1950 🔗

Is it coincidence that Charles has mentioned that governments must adopt a “warlike footing” to avoid “an ultimate reckoning for our abuse of nature,” in his Climate speech. He went on to say we need a “Marshall-like plan”

145048 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to JoeBlogg, 4, #172 of 1950 🔗

22 Jan 2020

With 2020 being seen as the ‘super year’ kick-starting a decade of action, HRH Prince of Wales states, “In order to secure our future and to prosper, we need to evolve our economic model … to move forward, we need nothing short of a paradigm shift, one that inspires action at revolutionary levels and pace.”

https://www.weforum.org/press/2020/01/hrh-prince-of-wales-announces-10-point-plan-and-sustainable-markets-initiative-to-kickstart-decade-of-delivery-at-the-world-economic-forum-annual-meeting-2020-e5f9d4ecee

145049 ▶▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to 2 pence, 7, #173 of 1950 🔗

“In order to secure MY future and to prosper, I need to evolve YOUR economic model … to move forward, YOU need nothing short of a paradigm shift, one that inspires action at revolutionary levels and pace.”

Such a twat!

145059 ▶▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to JoeBlogg, 2, #174 of 1950 🔗

Prince of Wales has created a Sustainable Markets Council comprising leaders from the public, private and philanthropic sectors. The council serves as a “brain trust” to build a global movement of leaders working to transition the world to genuinely sustainable markets and a net-zero global economy.

https://www.sustainable-markets.org/council

145122 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to 2 pence, 4, #175 of 1950 🔗

When he stops flying around in a helicopter, I’ll start listening. Hope he hasnlt inherited his parents’ longevity.

145196 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Bumble, 3, #176 of 1950 🔗

Nothing a good rusty guillotine blade wouldn’t sort out!

145355 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to 2 pence, #177 of 1950 🔗

Yer Julia HB……..I won’t retract my last statement.

146413 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JoeBlogg, #178 of 1950 🔗

He was primed at Davos recently.

145055 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #179 of 1950 🔗

JHB talking to Delingpole yesterday, said something like

“Unlike you, James, I’ve never been one of those people who said carry on as normal; don’t wear a mask; don’t socially distance; have wild parties. I’ve never been of that view. I’m not a tinfoil hat wearer…

The irony is almost too much to bear. Julia, listen to yourself. You are saying these words while literally advocating the wearing of a ‘tinfoil’ mask to ward off invisible death particles!

It’s at about 2:39.00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S6dsEkyHHw

145065 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #180 of 1950 🔗

It was ridiculous.

If Vallance and Whitty had said the science is unclear whether wearing a tinfoil hats help protect you from the disease, but you must wear one, she’d be sitting there in a tinfoil hat.

145078 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 9, #181 of 1950 🔗

I honestly think in 10/15yrs this time of face coverings will be looked back on with same derision as tin foil hats, but for now they are the ultimate signal of virtue and their wearers can’t see the hypocracy

145643 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 3, #182 of 1950 🔗

Only twits look at tin foil hats with derision. Or worse, those who’ve accepted the msm propaganda.

  • One can buy Faraday cages for one’s phone on Amazon.
  • France has banned wifi in nurseries, and severely restricted it in junior schools.
  • People with electro-magnetic sensitivity use metal-weave blankets for relief.
  • MI5 line their office with ‘tin-foil’.
146538 ▶▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to JohnB, #183 of 1950 🔗

M15 line their office with tin-foil …. please explain?

146935 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to LS99, #184 of 1950 🔗

Seem to remember reading something along those lines when they were building their new temple hq by the Thames. Sorry, I didn’t keep track – probably highly classified by now. 🙂 When the US embassy in Moscow was being bombarded by microwaves (1980s ?) might also be relevant.

They had to do something special to the windows too, as window vibrations are apparently translatable into speech. I kid you not.

145056 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #185 of 1950 🔗

In the DM there is an article which includes a pie chart showing that 45% of new infections are coming from care homes;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8761215/London-police-blast-Boris-Johnsons-new-rules-absurd-nonsense.html
I have not seen this information published anywhere else and DM do not give much supporting detail.
Is this figure correct? does anyone know where this information came from?
If around half of all new infections are care home related? it does rather beg some questions.

145066 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Steve Martindale, 9, #186 of 1950 🔗

Matt Hancock said on a Sunday they ARE discharging POSITIVE cases back from hospital to care home. It was on Sophy Ridge in sunday (Sky). I couldn’t believe it!

145077 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Country Mumkin, #187 of 1950 🔗

It looks like PHE wrote to care home providers as per this item;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54137078
All very odd.
Care homes or death houses? It was not quite the policy I was expecting to find as an answer to the cost of adult social care!

145109 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #188 of 1950 🔗

They have and will face no consequences. Why wouldn’t they continue with what has worked to kill the vulnerable and destroy the nation.

146272 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #189 of 1950 🔗

Exactly. It worked so well the first time, why not do it again? And blame the public for it. Again.

145128 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #190 of 1950 🔗

We are not killing granny, the government is.

145325 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #191 of 1950 🔗

It worked for them once why not again.Win win,gets rid of the useless eaters and bumps up the death rate.We are governed by power crazy psychopaths.

146455 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #192 of 1950 🔗

Last week, hospitals were ordered to “clear” ready for a tsunami of covid cases and the fact that covid is a nosocomial disease, despite de Piffle and his henchment tring to convince us otherwise.

The scathing comments by the police chiefs are encouraging, as is this:
MP for Telford Lucy Allen even went as far to tweet ‘our collective health is not at risk’, flying in the face of the PM’s main message to the country.

145058 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 81, #193 of 1950 🔗

Far and away the 2 most infuriating parts to the blonde bollocks latest verbal vomit session, more infuriating even than him attempted to blame us all for him doing this to us again are:

1. His claim the only sensible option of protecting the most vulnerable won’t work cos eventually the virus would reach them anyway. This because it is basically him admitting lockdowns don’t work, as if he can’t even have confidence a lockdown of a small population of society would work, then why persist with bothering is all. Media won’t pick up on this admission

2. That he has failed to lay out any sort of plan whatsoever yet again and again I see no mainstream media picking him up on it. I see plenty of hysterical boobs claiming we all ‘must’ go into national lockdown for some reason (their real selfish self preservation attitude coming to the fore) but none asking what his actual plan is. He attempts to give the illusion of a plan by whacking a whopping great 6 months time frame in this shite but where are his performance indicators? Where’s the expected outcomes from these interventions that would so enable us to relax them again? As expected, they are none existant because they haven’t got a fucking clue.

I absolutely loathe this prime minister and his merry band of useless cunts surrounding him, I wish them nothing but a dreadful end so we can come out of this needless misery they are heaping on us.

145064 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark II, 22, #194 of 1950 🔗

I know johnsons rallying call to the nation is posted all over the place but I just can’t bring myself to watch it.
Bit like anything with hancock in it.

145076 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to karenovirus, 25, #195 of 1950 🔗

Couldn’t watch it cos just hearing that man now makes me angry, but just about managed to read through it all instead. Needed to know whether the birthday weekend away to Wales (where 7 of us attend as 2 under 12s) for my mum’s birthday has been torpedoed or not — what a ridiculous thing to even have to check! How far we’ve fallen 🙁

145653 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 6, #196 of 1950 🔗

If you’re checking, they’ve already won.

145721 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to JohnB, 3, #197 of 1950 🔗

Were you not aware they’ve ‘won’ already? It wouldn’t be much of a victory to show up at the accommodation without checking and be turned away cos there’s 7 of us…

146058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, #198 of 1950 🔗

Won already my arse.

Didn’t realise accommodation was involved though. It is indeed a ridiculous thing to have to check.

146338 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, 1, #199 of 1950 🔗

If the hotel is happy to lose seven customers, then that’s there loss.

145079 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 5, #200 of 1950 🔗

Aside from the very seriousness of all this, he just puts me in mind of Ronnie Barker when he used to do his “and here is the news” pieces.

146335 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 3, #201 of 1950 🔗

Half an hour of Hancock, a fate worse than death.

145787 ▶▶ Jules, replying to Mark II, 4, #202 of 1950 🔗

The man and his Cabinet are a criminal gang. I wonder how close to total meltdown we are? I suspect that calling in the troops to keep us in line may mean we are closer to shortages and people going hungry than we think.

146347 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jules, 2, #203 of 1950 🔗

Shortages are on the way and may well be intentional. However, when the time comes there will be no shortage of Gates’s genocidal witches brew, that should give us a real shot in the arm.

146499 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Rowan, 2, #204 of 1950 🔗

Brexit was indeed intentional, queues of 7,000 lorries held in 29 lorry parks within a customs border zone in Kent will not be helpful in delivering lettuce to supermarkets on time.

145062 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 32, #205 of 1950 🔗

Someone on talkRADIO saying to JHB “you do not have the right to harm my grandparents” when she mentioned personal liberty.

He has just dismissed that many people are dying of heart disease and cancer as though that were acceptable collateral damage. I don’t ever recall anyone ever moaning about people with ordinary flu “killing grandparents” Why is this such a *thing* now, other than to keep the fear going.

145067 ▶▶ Olive, replying to kh1485, 24, #206 of 1950 🔗

Listening to the JHB programme. The former chair of BMA is holding all out for a vaccine and that all liberties should be curtailed till then. I simply cannot understand that viewpoint, especially over such a relatively low lethal disease…….

145103 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Olive, 9, #207 of 1950 🔗

Hes retired plenty of money it doesent effect him , I listened and thought he was a pompous pratt

145332 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Olive, 3, #208 of 1950 🔗

Because he’s a member of The Death Cult.

See once you accept the fact that this is what they are, all those questions are answered

145097 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to kh1485, 23, #209 of 1950 🔗

I’m getting a bit sick of these psychopath grannies (actually it is usually their virtue signalling children) that want to lock me and my children up for 23hrs a day, shut businesses and remove the nation’s children from education so that they can eek out a few extra weeks. Complete maniacs…

146504 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #210 of 1950 🔗

You forget, no psychopath actually asked us grannies for our opinion!

145141 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 6, #211 of 1950 🔗

Won’t be surprised if that radio caller does a U turn when s/he is made redundant or bankrupt or grandparents die of an untreated illnesses.

These lockdownistas are all “I’m alright Jack” until they’re hit in the pocket or stomach.

145221 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #212 of 1950 🔗

Oh no, Bart, not a caller, I believe the former head (or whatever title they have) of the BMA!

145260 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #213 of 1950 🔗

Jesus wept. Why am I not surprised?

The BMA have been useless throughout this crisis and even in the past. All they care is feathering their nests.

Time to axe them methinks.

145068 Emily Tock, 1, #214 of 1950 🔗

Martin Kulldorff posted this piece from City Journal by John Tiernan on Twitter: https://www.city-journal.org/achieving-herd-immunity#.X2qP1wlxEBJ.twitter

145070 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 6, #215 of 1950 🔗

If we think saving lives is worth loss of liberty then

1 – ban smoking (80,000 per year)
2 – ban abortion (200,000 per year)

I don’t by the way

145073 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to steve_w, 14, #216 of 1950 🔗

The thing is a lot of the people who really advocate lockdown etc do also think smoking and alcohol should be banned for the reason above.

As a non drinker and non smoker I find the idea of banning them appalling and continue to be amazed by how many people don’t want others to be able to choose their own pleasures in life.

145081 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mark II, 1, #217 of 1950 🔗

I bet Devi Sridhar wants to ban smoking but not abortion because she’s so woke

145086 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Mark II, 13, #218 of 1950 🔗

I think we need to get the right balance between health and allowing people to live their lives and banning anyone from visiting family and friends in their homes for anywhere between 3 weeks & 6 months to protect 0.02% of population is crossing a line. This is especially worse when a large number of those vulnerable people would prefer to take chance and see their grandchildren rather than die a lonely death.

145092 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to dpj, 16, #219 of 1950 🔗

As I have mentioned before, my customers are predominantly middle-aged to elderly. Not one of them has said they are afraid to be in my shop; not one of them has accused me of trying to kill them and I am sure, in the autumn of their lives, they would choose to live a normal life, not one cocooned in their homes unable to see either their family or friends.

Oh, and if we are to be branded “granny killers” how come my customers aren’t dropping like flies?

145121 ▶▶▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to kh1485, 1, #220 of 1950 🔗

We need these kind of people to talk to others of the same age. To even be at Trafalgar Square if they can manage it. To push some leaflets etc and of course to throw their filthy masks away!

145143 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 6, #221 of 1950 🔗

If someone says that I always ask them why aren’t supermarket workers catching the virus and dropping like flies.

I never get a reply to that.

145292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #222 of 1950 🔗

Since the pandemic began I have checked this with the till operators every time I go into a supermarket. None of them have infections in the shops.

People have got to use the evidence of their own eyes and ears rather than just believing what they are told.

146663 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Kate, 1, #223 of 1950 🔗

Exactly. As several supermarket staff has told me, no-one in their branches has been off sick since this madness began.

No infections, no spikes and they’ve not been using PPE either.

145168 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, #224 of 1950 🔗

Because your grannies are going home and killing their grannies.

145100 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to dpj, 4, #225 of 1950 🔗

It should be a personal risk assessment for everyone

145370 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark II, 1, #226 of 1950 🔗

And Recreational Drugs, they have been banned for ages.

145107 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to steve_w, 3, #227 of 1950 🔗

It’s a null argument. We have happily accepted losing lives for liberty for years and years. So all of sudden we change?

We should never have locked down because as is apparent it is extremely hard to extracate yourself.

You build contingency and deal with the risk. Think what would our standing in the world be now if our economy had taken the smallest dip in GDP. Think about how the pound would be against say the Euro?

No. We pissed that away for some astrological models.

Just pray that in some industries, validating and verifying stuff to be safe to use still goes on.

145667 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, 1, #228 of 1950 🔗

I’ve not seen any competent astrologers suggesting we should lockdown. Link ?

145072 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 7, #229 of 1950 🔗

Not spamming – this is the only website I know that agrees with us – if you’ve seen this before just scroll on down!

REACTION TO VALLANCE AND WHITTY this tears them a new bumhole.

Thanks for all your emails, we’ll be reading them out in the next podcast!

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

PLEASE SUBSCRIBE USING YOUR PODCAST APP

AND LEAVE US A REVIEW ON iTUNES!

❤️

Plus you can send us an email of your lockdown stories, thoughts and obvs to:

therealnormalpodcast@gmail.com

Thanks everyone! ✌️

145230 ▶▶ Basics, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #230 of 1950 🔗

Please don’t bother with the words not spamming. You have clearly been making a great deal of effort to get these podcasts out. Just because you add a link with a logo does not mean spam. Adding a short description on each podcast as you have about bill and ben today is good. Keep up the good work Real Normal.

145519 ▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Basics, #231 of 1950 🔗

Thanks man! Will do. I’ve emailed the guys at LS but I imagine they get loads of emails. We’ll see what happens!

146547 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, #232 of 1950 🔗

They’re a v good bunch. Bedwetters was more eye-catching though!

146491 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to p02099003, #234 of 1950 🔗

Good grief, is Vallance wearing his wife’s knickers on his face?

145080 TJN, replying to TJN, 31, #235 of 1950 🔗

There’s not much I can do personally to stop this shitshow. And in a direct challenge between individual and the State there is only one winner.

But every day, in every way I can think of – patiently, stoically, unflinchingly – I am going to be doing all I can to subvert it.

145671 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to TJN, 2, #236 of 1950 🔗

And in a direct challenge between individual and the State there is only one winner.

However in a direct challenge between the people and the state, there is only one winner. 🙂

145918 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to JohnB, 1, #237 of 1950 🔗

Yes, but 100% muzzle compliance when I was in the shops this morning, me excepted.

146925 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TJN, 1, #238 of 1950 🔗

In time, they’ll come to realise how stupid they’re being and how stupid they look. And we’ll have won.

If you sit by the river long enough, the bodies of all your enemies will float by …

146670 ▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to TJN, 1, #239 of 1950 🔗

Me too, mate. Even at the cost of the goodwill of my family and ex-friends. This is becoming a lonely life but I know I’m right.

145085 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 4, #240 of 1950 🔗

Sweden is the one to watch. Same disease progression as UK.

So, one of
1 – voluntary social distancing has the same effect as lockdown
2 – herd immunity achieved
3 – it was stopped by Spring coming
4 – deaths plummeted in Sweden as they learned how to protect the vulnerable after a poor start

In the Ferguson model, 90% of Swedes are susceptible still, they will see a second wave starting in Autumn and it will progress through Winter to meet his 100,000 deaths, Spring won’t come soon enough to stop it and they will have to lock down.

145163 ▶▶ annie, replying to steve_w, #241 of 1950 🔗

We shall see.
Ferguson won’t, his eyes don’t work.

145087 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 43, #242 of 1950 🔗

I feel desperate today. There is not one institution in this country that I trust:

Police: No
NHS: Definitely not
Judiciary: No
Parliament: No
Monarch: No
Any kind of ombudsman who is there to protect against the excesses of big business: No

Who the hell do I turn to?

145096 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 9, #243 of 1950 🔗

Same here kh, see above. Essentially deprived by diktat of all that constitutes normal life ; nowhere to turn.

145114 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to kh1485, 1, #244 of 1950 🔗

Are you brave enough to ban employees of the first two from your business?

145151 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #245 of 1950 🔗

If I remember correctly, during a tube strike a few years ago, there was a cafe that had a sign that said bus drivers welcome with a free pastry if they bought any hot drink and that tube drivers were not welcome.

145426 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ewan Duffy, 5, #246 of 1950 🔗

I think I would be on dodgy ground, banning entry. Someone asked a few weeks ago if we offered discounts for those “on the front line”, they got a very stern “certainly not”.

I am brave enough, however, to give my opinion and forcibly so!

145931 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to kh1485, 1, #247 of 1950 🔗

Depends on law where you are. Here in Ireland, it was held that a bar in Kerry excluding people from Dublin was not illegal under discrimination legislation. It has to be a specified ground under discrimination legislation to be illegal.

145327 ▶▶ John Miscellaneous, replying to kh1485, 3, #248 of 1950 🔗

The Church, and I don’t mean that established one which has sadly fallen into nothing more than convivial group sessions for the well-intentioned or well-brought-up, but the one that still claims the true deposit of faith – the Catholic Church. I recommend the Ordinariate if you’ve been previously CoE. Only in God do we find true hope, only in a Church where Christ’s headship saves and consoles us sinners do we find peace – both eternal and temporally renewed through Sacraments. I think it’s about time to notice that we’re in the intensifying stages of battle of good versus evil, the particular sort that’s the corruption of good seeking to void everything blessed about our existence. It’s time to take the arduous but responsible way. And if it all makes little sense today, it won’t tomorrow so don’t despair – I’ll keep you in my prayers. God bless!

145435 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John Miscellaneous, 1, #249 of 1950 🔗

Thank you, that’s a very kind response. Sadly, I think being on the side of good and truth counts for nothing these days.

More generally, we are surrounded my mendacity on an epic scale, infecting all our institutions.

145683 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 4, #250 of 1950 🔗

Sorry if it sounds trite, but trust is for yourself or other individuals, kh1485. Not dubious institutions.

From your posts on here, you already do this. 🙂

145090 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 22, #251 of 1950 🔗

‘Impossible to protect the most vulnerable, care homes..’

The latest cry of the lockdown zealots (they seem incapable of research or, more likely, just don’t want hear it!)

Complete nonsense! One word: Japan

‘Japan has the world’s oldest population, with an average age of 47 and a life expectancy of more than 81 years. More than 28 percent of its residents are over the age of 65, ahead of Italy in second place with 23 percent..’

‘In Japan, 14 percent of the deaths have been in elder-care facilities. That is compared with more than 40 percent in the United States..despite a lower proportion of U.S. seniors living in nursing homes.’

‘Japan’s elderly care facilities have taken great care in protecting the elderly, not just from this virus but from norovirus, influenza and other germs ,” said Kayoko Hayakawa, an infectious-disease specialist…’

This is not a coronavirus crisis in Britain, but it is a care home crisis!

In Japan, care home workers are in virtual lockdown, not the entire country:

‘…manager Takao Furusawa says he owes a huge debt of gratitude to staff members who have basically put their own lives on hold so they don’t bring the virus in.
“They have hardly been anywhere else except here, and just commute between their homes and work,” he said. “They have taken their responsibility very seriously. That’s humbling to me.”

And:

‘Perhaps surprisingly, staffers don’t usually wear face masks. It makes it harder to communicate with elderly patients who may be suffering from dementia’

But

‘“We tend to have less diabetes, less obesity, and these kind of risk factors seem to be heavily related to the severity of the disease,”

And lockdown has a cost

‘“It is causing isolation, and for some people a worsening of their dementia,”

So who is the real killer of the elderly and infirm in Britain?

145142 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #252 of 1950 🔗

A much cheaper solution for the economy as a whole would be to offer large bonuses, say 1k per week to care home staff to live in while everyone gets it outside. Not everyone could do it, for family reasons, but at least the patients would be safer and be able to have some human interaction. I am aware of some homes that did this in the UK and they have had no outbreaks.

145166 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bumble, 6, #253 of 1950 🔗

Indeed and the idea of care home staff being paid double or something to live in was mooted right at the beginning but for some reason dismissed by the gov, who have now spent far more on the shambles instead

145155 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #254 of 1950 🔗

When this government said they were going to solve the problem of adult social elderly care costs, I never imagined they had this sort of ‘final solution’ mind!

145091 wendyk, 20, #255 of 1950 🔗

RIP Scotland; life is now in the dead zone.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/1596259/tayside-and-fife-jobs-at-risk-as-hotel-and-restaurant-group-plans-mass-redundancies/

And another example of the carnage now being inflicted: until this month, my gas and electricity have been supplied by Ebico, a small but successful not-for-profit enterprise run jointly with Nottingham City Council, aimed at helping folk on low incomes.

Alas, the venture is no longer financially viable and has now been taken over by British Gas,with the result that the Ebico workforce will be made redundant.

The customer service has always been excellent,with prompt and helpful advice provided whenever needed.

What chance will these young people now have of finding decent secure employment in the current climate?

I despair, I’m angry ,disgusted, isolated and essentially disenfranchised,like many hundreds of thousands of others.

145093 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 45, #256 of 1950 🔗

Future SIL and her partner visited last night. I ignored all of yesterday’s announcements but followed your news and opinions.

SIL apologised for running late, there was some debate if the were ALLOWED to share a car.

Conversation about the rules started. I acted as a bystander as I haven’t got the energy.

They both clearly know it’s all nonesence, IMO a bit whingy, ‘i’m not allowed to go and visit my friend next week, it’s ok I can still see my other sister as she is in my bubble, you can use our bubble if you want to see her, ha ha.. it’s not fair I’ve wear my mask and sanitise my hands…’

Me ‘what do you mean you are not allowed, you are adults, do what you want, ignore it all’

Personally I thought they both looked a bit shit (as do I no doubt) ground down, the sparkle gone.

Me ‘do you not now realise this is and was never about a virus??’

Blank stares – ‘but it’s not fair. It’s ok, it’s only for 2 weeks’

Me shaking my head….

‘what you mean it will go on for longer’

‘of course, 6 months at least’

‘oh no, it can’t. But I’ve been wearing my mask and following the rules. Well I’m not cancelling Xmas!’

They don’t get it, they are doing in to themselves, fallen into the trap. They don’t put any value on freedom. Tell me where to go, when to go, help me, think for me.

145099 ▶▶ CGL, replying to stefarm, 13, #257 of 1950 🔗

I have said this to at least 2 friends. They just cant be bothered – their freedom isn’t worth 30 minutes of their time looking at anything I have offered them. I am so disappointed in ALL of my friends.

145309 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to CGL, 7, #258 of 1950 🔗

It’s weird, isn’t it? People only seem to use the internet as entertainment, not as a resource. They just faff about on Friendface and Notflix (they rarely have anything you actually want to watch). For me and my other half, who also posts on here, it’s like a vast, endless library …

145349 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Miss Owl, 3, #259 of 1950 🔗

Suey – I feel the same, but apparently we also have 8.5 million people who are functionally illiterate, the worst rate in Europe, so that may have a lot to do with it! Pictures always win over words, and you can’t research complex subjects by looking at pictures.

145620 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to DressageRider, 4, #260 of 1950 🔗

That’s an interesting stat which I find entirely believable. It is borne out by something that I learned many years ago and subsequently acknowledged by the BBC in 2013 is that the average reading age in the British Army is 11.

If you take the British Army as a microcosm of society, remove the officer class and members of the technical corps, you are left with a cohort that really is as thick as mince. On the plus side the Army will at least provide additional education and training to improve your situation and it should also be noted that despite the seemingly low average reading age, Army recruitment procedures mean that the reading age is actually above the national average.

So, yes, there is a significant cohort in the UK that really are illiterate. I have also been in peoples houses where there is not a single book in sight never mind a newspaper. I compare and contrast that with my own home where I have run out of space to put books.

145749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 3, #261 of 1950 🔗

Agree, and when house hunting, which we seem to do quite regularly, it is very disturbing to me how few people have any books at home, or any shelves, whereas our first question is almost always ‘where would we put the books!’

146098 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to DressageRider, 2, #262 of 1950 🔗

Good point, I’m not brain of Britain but my man cave is full of books and not just pop up books.

146519 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, 1, #263 of 1950 🔗

I had thousands of books but had to pass them on as my eyesight got ever longer.
Now I have thousands of books on my Kindle, so I can make the print bigger.
It’s not the same but at least I’m still reading.

146557 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to CGL, 1, #264 of 1950 🔗

.

145254 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 4, #265 of 1950 🔗

In the bleakness of your finely described situation I see hope. There is astonishment and incredulity at your shaking of your head… 6 months at least. Incredulity turns to realisatiin turns to outrage.

Time. The SIL can be turned shes not done for, just takes her own time.

145101 stefarm, 12, #266 of 1950 🔗

The classic carrot and stick but we are being bashed over the head with both carrot and stick.

Arseholes.

145102 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 11, #267 of 1950 🔗

Blimey. Just heard Julia HB question the lack of evidence for masks being effective.

145158 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #268 of 1950 🔗

Can’t tell if that means she questioned whether they really are effective and pointed out lack of evidence, or she questioned the evidence itself that they’re not effective?

145182 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Mark II, 11, #269 of 1950 🔗

Sorry, I see I was unclear. She was putting it to a guest (didn’t catch who it was) that there was little evidence that masks were effective. Said she is still happy to wear one because it doesn’t bother her personally but definitely acknowledging that it doesn’t make scientific sense. Glad to see her shifting a bit on this

145419 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Charlie Blue, 4, #270 of 1950 🔗

Excellent, and that’s a fair position to take, if you dont mind at all and want to wear one, feel free – but dont pretend its backed by science. And also dont enforce them, but we’ve a long way to go before mask mandates are withdrawn

145105 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 43, #271 of 1950 🔗

I have always been against lockdown but have listened to Valance and Whitty. They properly jumped the shark on Monday though. Utterly bizarre and childish really. That stupid graph will be famous for years to come. ‘if the rate doubles every…..’. If my auntie had bollocks she’d be my uncle

145146 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to steve_w, 7, #272 of 1950 🔗

It surpasses the climate hockeystick which has been totally discredited.

145116 Suzyv, replying to Suzyv, 6, #273 of 1950 🔗

So what can we do that will be effective to help stop all this? The brainwashed are only budging in tiny numbers despite trying to explain sense to them. More people are now moaning for sure, but looking at mask compliance alone, certainly not walking the talk. I am a middle aged female and I will attend the protest on Saturday but it is quite clear that after last Saturday they will have many Police on standby who will violently charge on a peaceful crowd and then lie and say it was necessary because there were a load of violent conspiracy theorists (not social distancing of course!). This won’t change the mindset of the deluded and non compliance by many more is needed to stop this..Vernon Coleman says push leaflets- wordings on his website. That’s another possibility.

145640 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Suzyv, 2, #274 of 1950 🔗

They will only charge after the crowd thins out a bit, arrest a few people who take exception (plus the the agent provocateurs – who will be quietly let go), all so the media can attempt to discredit the gathering. Numbers are very important, so if you can go, take a few friends with you.

145117 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 5, #275 of 1950 🔗

Lots of important content again today, thanks.

The item from Sir Graham Brady is actually quite encouraging. If you read between the lines, and accept what he can and can’t say openly, and assume it represents a majority of Conservative MP’s, then clearly they are also quite sceptical of the science presented by SAGE. It’s the same problem, though. They don’t dare say publicly what everyone knows, that people will die as they usually do.

The letter to the MP Stuart Anderson prompts me to say that the sceptics really need to concentrate on one or two arguments, get them well supported by data and by recognised authorities. We have so many arguments or flaws in the evidence presented to us that it dilutes the effect. The false positive argument is starting to get through, but so far not enough. The SAGE people are able to brush it off. Is it true or isn’t it that a majority of positive tests are false? My own view is that positive tests should be expected to increase. Why wouldn’t they? My argument is that the disease is not sufficiently dangerous to lock down, not that it doesn’t infect anyone. Likewise the flu argument. Is flu bypassing the lockdown or not?

Can we ask Heneghan, Gupta, et al. to pick one or two arguments they know they can win? Jefferson was in a head to head with Walport on Newsnight recently and I’m afraid did not come across well for this reason.

145209 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to WhyNow, 3, #276 of 1950 🔗

Agree, we have to focus on a specific thing when writing to MPs etc – the aspect or area where we consider we have either more information or better understanding. Me and Mr TT are both scientists by background, and Mr TT is an ‘expert’ modeller (he was developing agent-based simulation models long before Ferguson!). We used this to, hopefully, knock down the case for a vaccine in our submission to the consultation. We cannot, however, add anything to the mask debate over and above specific knowledge others have on here.

145261 ▶▶ Basics, replying to WhyNow, 3, #277 of 1950 🔗

Yesterday Sky were very sharp to point to the YouGov poll when the reported a growing group of the cons were unhappy with leadership – well the youguv poll says 70% of britain are happy.
We are doing really well to have the gov needing to rely on a single poll asking leading question to quell the growing realisation a coup has happened.

145958 ▶▶ Paul M, replying to WhyNow, 1, #278 of 1950 🔗

In the words of Peter Hitchens “These MP boobies can rarely reason. One thing moves them: Fear that their indolence has been noticed, and they may lose their seats. This is achieved by the numbers of brief, polite, acid e-mails they receive.”

He recommends an email saying, briefly, politely, acidly: ‘I have noticed that you’re not representing me or holding the government to account. Why do you expect to be paid more than £80,000 a year if you’re not doing your job? Show on 30th September that you now intend to earn your pay.’

Or ‘You are not doing the job – representing me – for which you are lavishly paid. If you continue not to do it you may well lose your seat at the next election.’

If enough people do it, he reckons it will have some success.

My own Red Wall MP has replied positively and says he pushing for change and this is all about control. (now whether he is giving different message according to the opinions being expressed is something else).

145120 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 23, #279 of 1950 🔗

Good morning fellow Lockdown Sceptics.

I sent a brief email to Richard Drax MP late on thanking him for speaking out. If you missed it, it’s here https://twitter.com/RamblingRingo/status/1308413298111643652

He replied with a very warm email at 7.45am this morning. What a legend.

Along with Graham Brady’s interview yesterday, I’m cautiously optimistic that the tide is turning in Parliament. I often say that if one person is prepared to speak out against the consensus view then a lot more will be thinking the same and it will give them ‘permission’ to also speak up.

Hang in there folks. Keep up the good fight. The truth will out.

145185 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #280 of 1950 🔗

Sir Desmond Swayne was very vocal on Sky last night. Actually, he was pretty angry. Lucy Allen also out being critical of government policy. The pressure is building.

145264 ▶▶ Basics, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #282 of 1950 🔗

Brilliant and apprecite you doing so.

145322 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Basics, 1, #283 of 1950 🔗

This is great. Although, a 50 or even 100 strong rebellion is pretty useless if all the opposition parties continue to support the Government…

145468 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to kf99, 1, #284 of 1950 🔗

It’s always humiliating for a government to rely on opposition votes to pass something.

146591 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #285 of 1950 🔗

You really think de Piffle and his yesmen are cabable of feeling shame?

146097 ▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #286 of 1950 🔗

And all of us should remind the reluctant backbenchers that we are here and waiting for them to be brave.

145124 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 6, #287 of 1950 🔗

In First Aid, the first thing (!) you do is Assess the Danger to Yourself.

It is better not to engage at times and get other help. In that way more people do not end up injured and a liabilty.

The example story often quoted is the kid who’s walking on a frozen lake with his dog. A crack opens up and his dog goes in. The kid jumps in after. A jogger seeing this runs out on the lake and jumps in.

A drunk half-sleeping on the side of the road sees this and wakes up.

Who becomes the hero of the story?

The drunk.

He gets up and finds a phone box (it’s an old story) and phones an ambulance. They come with the fire brigade, pull the man, kid and dog out of the lake.

The man dies, the kid is stable and the dog just shakes it off.

The man is you wearing a mask. There is more harm to you wearing it, because to wear it properly you’ll have to replace it after every use and touch. But you don’t.

145699 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, 2, #288 of 1950 🔗

🙂
Every now and again, one reads of someone who drowns trying to rescue their dog. Never seen a case where dog didn’t get itself out eventually.

146564 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to JohnB, #289 of 1950 🔗

Same with people who are killed by cows while trying to “protect” their dog. They think they can overpower an 800-pound animal. Better to slip the lead off since the dog can easily get away from the cows on their own.

146921 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #290 of 1950 🔗

I’d have expected my dogs to have held the cattle at bay while I beat a hurried retreat. Not defending the boss = no supper.:)

145126 Jeremy Harris, replying to Jeremy Harris, 33, #291 of 1950 🔗

Here in New Zealand we’ve been patiently waiting for the rest of the world to go back to normal so we can escape our currently insanity and convince our fellow citizens we have to go through our epidemic – such as it is.

It seems the rest of the world is intent on complete absurdity, locking down again when you have reached herd immunity for all intents and purposes.

I’ve actually run out of words to describe how mental the reaction to this virus is, and I’m reaching the point where I will rebel in every form, consequences be damned.

145152 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Jeremy Harris, 3, #292 of 1950 🔗

What’s the deal in NZ now? You ‘free’ so long as you don’t fall ill or try and travel? I take it you at least don’t have masks everywhere or has that batshit insanity even in place in a country with no covid?

145181 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Mark II, 4, #293 of 1950 🔗

No vaccine: Kiwis forced to live like the Sentinelese for good.
I guess that’s dawning on some.

146301 ▶▶▶ Jeremy Harris, replying to Mark II, 4, #294 of 1950 🔗

No cases of community transmission here again now and something like 30% to 40% of people still wearing masks public. Literally makes me want to scream. It’s like blood letting via leaches or some form of penitence to placate an angry covid god.

New Zealand is never getting out of this without a vaccine.

You guys have months of madness to go, we’re looking years… Already planning move if I can sell my business – and the rest of the world comes back its senses.

146316 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Jeremy Harris, 2, #295 of 1950 🔗

Incredible to hear people actually wearing masks in a country with no cases such is the power of fear! Utter bonkers (and idiots)

145154 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Jeremy Harris, 2, #296 of 1950 🔗

Good on you. If many did the same, this would be over very quickly.

145129 Biker, replying to Biker, 22, #297 of 1950 🔗

Now we’re meant to believe nurses are exhausted. How? There is no fucker in hospital. Is it because they’re all fat? Ladies and Gents we are now in North Korea and to get out of it we will need to fight. I notice the site has been indebted with shills. Once we got over the few dozen of us posting and started getting bigger they’ve appeared. Ignore the rules if confronted by the armed wing of the government don’t speak to them, not a word. if they arrest you let them and speak through a lawyer. Don’t pay their fines. Argue with everyone you know who backs this insanity.

145190 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Biker, 5, #298 of 1950 🔗

Actually I am more fatigued than exhausted, but then I am seeing around a dozen patients in my 5 hour shifts in an out of hours facility working as a nurse practitioner.

145223 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Biker, #299 of 1950 🔗

4737 Carlin. SIR

145417 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to B Boru, #300 of 1950 🔗

But who’s the daddy?

145268 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 2, #301 of 1950 🔗

They are operating on low oxygen behind a mask all day. It is exhausting like working at altitude.

Stops the fuckers from dancing tiktok though I notice.

145132 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 4, #302 of 1950 🔗

Hi guys. Yesterday someone commented that they didn’t like us spamming the comments about our podcast ‘The Real Normal’

I hate spam , but this is the only website I know of that supports the main message of our pod – so much so we were featured here a few days ago.

We want to upload 1 – 2 times a week and keep the momentum going. But I feel that spamming the comments isn’t great.

Therefore, does anyone know how to contact Toby or the administrator of this site to perhaps negotiate a permanent slot at the bottom the main page? Plus am I taking the p*ss in asking this? Is it even a good idea?

Hope you all have a great day fighting the good fight. Boris is bloomin’ mental!

Cheers, Lord Rick.

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

145144 ▶▶ matt, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 11, #303 of 1950 🔗

Rick, I really wouldn’t stress about it too much. Don’t completely spam the page, obviously, but you haven’t been doing that. a couple, maybe 3 times a day when you have a new episode – you will be, after all only 3 out of 1-2,000 posts.

Just my opinion.

Either way, Toby posts the email address above the line. It’s lockdownsceptics@gmail.com

145159 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to matt, 8, #304 of 1950 🔗

I share that opinion. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest at current levels. Easy enough to scroll past.

145183 ▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Charlie Blue, 1, #305 of 1950 🔗

Ok cool!

145172 ▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to matt, 4, #306 of 1950 🔗

Cheers dude, I’ll ping him an email now. I really have to do some proper work but it’s bloody hard when all this madness is going on! 😂

145176 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 3, #307 of 1950 🔗

You give a great service keep going.

145280 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #308 of 1950 🔗

I agree with Matt. Don’t stress. It was one comment after many days. The page appreciates your effort. Perhaps the single commentor didn’t realise you are creating new content every day.

Imo the comment came simply because you put your logo Real Normal with the link. It stands out.

Without publicising your stuff there’s less reason to produce it. Keep it up. Obviously don’t over do it. Thanks for your efforts.

145171 ▶▶ Mark, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 5, #309 of 1950 🔗

I agree with matt and Charlie Blue. A post or three a day mentioning other sceptical outlets is not a problem imo. I’ve noticed yours, but they haven’t annoyed me at all. On the contrary.

145425 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 3, #310 of 1950 🔗

Yeah, I don’t think it’s spamming at all. It’s very easy to miss things with so many comments. 👍

145648 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, #311 of 1950 🔗

email Toby at LS.org

145919 ▶▶ Edward, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, #312 of 1950 🔗

I rarely listen to podcasts but I have no doubt that you’re a good guy – keep posting!

145135 FlynnQuill, replying to FlynnQuill, 20, #313 of 1950 🔗

Nurses exhausted, my arse! My brother is a nurse at Sunderland General Hospital. He told me last night that the Hospital is like a ghost town. It’s been like this since around May according to my brother and other friends that are nurses there. But if you listen to our supine council, Sunderland is on a knife edge, WTF. There is nobody in hospital so how can Sunderland be on a knife edge. I smell a very smelly rat.

145186 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to FlynnQuill, 6, #314 of 1950 🔗

Bournemouth the same. Empty in April and May but filling up again as they are starting on the huge backlog of other conditions. Only a couple of covid patients. Nobody in icu since July.

145527 ▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Bumble, 2, #315 of 1950 🔗

BUT THE BEACHES WERE PACKED!

145179 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sarigan, 1, #317 of 1950 🔗

Finding a potential receptor for a drug means nothing in the current context. Unless the government exempts clinical trials, a new drug would be about 12 years off, if at all. It’s a bit like all those miracle cancer drugs that cure cancer in mice. Even the dietary angle, omega 6 linoleic acid isn’t clear cut because of genetic differences in the population. What could be interesting is if there is a relationship between those who get an inflammatory response from linoleic acid consumption and those who react badly to covid. Genetic profiling could then predict those most at risk from covid. All early stage though. HCQ has clear benefit and is already licensed.

145697 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Sarigan, 1, #318 of 1950 🔗

Good. Another treatment that makes vaccines totally unnecessary.

And the ‘government’ denied hydroxychloroquine treatments to early stage infections in Europe and in the States (Fauci) that would have saved hundreds, possibly thousands. In France it was quietly removed from its over-the-counter status in February.

145148 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, #319 of 1950 🔗

I’ve just heard two chaps saying on Radio 4’s Today programme that restrictions should be more stringent. One wanted to go back to a full lockdown it seemed.

I would just like them to be asked to quantify just what it is they seek to avoid.

One did say his aim was to keep cases as low as possible. That’s more than being a bit woolly.

145161 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #320 of 1950 🔗

Too many people are gullible, scared and above all: benefitting from and believing in the magic money tree.
Only when that stops, through a hyperinflationary wipeout of the pound with all its consequences, will those people start to wake up.

145175 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #321 of 1950 🔗

And many of them are also sitting on top of huge savings and generous pension schemes.

They will wake up once the government raids their money and abolishes the triple lock or real estate collapses leaving their pensions as worthless as Zimbabwe’s currency.

145208 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #322 of 1950 🔗

We are facing systematic collapse.We haven’t got 2 months let alone 6.The amount of empty shops in London is frightening and furlough hasn’t even ended.
There is no hope of any change since yesterday’s announcement.
The tax take will collapse,money printing is the only option for the government now.

145469 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #323 of 1950 🔗

I believe commercial rents are being collected this week and if it was bad last June when the statistic was 9 out 10 couldn’t pay, imagine what would it be now and as you said furlough hasn’t even ended yet.

I foresee that more retail outlets will close and with yesterday’s announcement the cafes, pubs and restaurants will follow suit.

Either way the economy is really, really screwed.

145174 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Ned of the Hills, #324 of 1950 🔗

Too much Dr Google. Members of the public now experts on virology.

145205 ▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Ned of the Hills, #325 of 1950 🔗

What did a full lockdown acheive last time?

145216 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #326 of 1950 🔗

The subjugation of a large part of the population….box ticked!

145222 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 3, #327 of 1950 🔗

Got the death rates up
Wrecked the economy
Made Boris feel good

145711 ▶▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to 6097 Smith W, #328 of 1950 🔗

Yeah it makes you feel walm and cosy!

145207 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ned of the Hills, #329 of 1950 🔗

Cases (proper cases) are low, a positive test is not a case. Are they deliberately misleading us or are they thick

145291 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #330 of 1950 🔗

I like this phrase proper cases. What do you mean by it. I know what you don’t mean by it – dna fragment of long spent virus, but what would a typical average proper case be?

I ask because this is language I can speak to others with. Meaningful language, not Bamboozle.

146086 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, #331 of 1950 🔗

My understanding is somebody in hospital or somebody displaying symptoms who can be diagnosed by a GP

145149 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #332 of 1950 🔗

Apologies if already posted. This is the man who not only Herr Sturgeon is prepared to ignore, in favour of listening to the non-scientist and non-medic, Devi Sridhar, with her set of ‘alternative facts’, but the rest of the UK industrial/medical/political machine:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8761609/Exasperated-professor-HUGH-PENNINGTON-signed-stinging-protest-letter-PM.html

145173 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #333 of 1950 🔗

Pennongton has been very vocal all along against the second wave theory.

145150 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 13, #334 of 1950 🔗

Why does everyone keep bleating on about Graham Brady as if he’s some kind of saviour?

He isn’t, and all his amendment will do is mean that a debate and full vote be needed, but the lockdown measure will still be passed with an overwhelming majority, and Brady himself will vote for them.

There is not one MP with a spine at all, all are pro lockdown and there is no end to this.

The only way to end this now that I can see would be mass action by the public like the Poll Tax riots. But looking at this Gov I would dare to say they’d soon implement full martial law if this was to happen, and would happily shoot at the population.

145169 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 11, #335 of 1950 🔗

Because getting these decisions back into Parliament is a major step back towards normality and towards allowing pressure to be put on policymaking. Brady’s moves are vitally important, even if he’s a long way from being a full on sceptic.

There’s no sign atm of any prospect of mass public action, but in any event Parliamentary resistance is not an alternative to mass action. On the contrary the two are mutually reinforcing, in most aspects.

145178 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 3, #336 of 1950 🔗

This Brady amendment to me just looks like a way to try and make the public think that they are the ones controlling Parliament as the MP they have elected are now voting on it. In fact it’s meaningless as we now just have one party of 650 MP’s that is happy to agree to any law that restricts our civil liberties.

145188 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 5, #337 of 1950 🔗

There is no party opposition because Labour and the others abdicated their core responsibility on this, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t parliamentary resistance. It might be trivial at the moment, but in the end that is how Johnson most likely will be forced out, and that is probably how growing dissent will eventually impact most effectively on actual policymaking.

145199 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #338 of 1950 🔗

Is there Parliamentary resistance on locking people down though?

Looks at last weeks Internal Market Bill vote, there was plenty of resistance then and MPs voted against and abstained, but there is no sign of any resistance to the Coronavirus Bill.

145229 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 8, #339 of 1950 🔗

Absolutely there is parliamentary resistance both to lockdown and to renewing the Coronavirus Act powers – that’s exactly what Brady is talking about in the Unherd interview linked above the line today.

It might not be widespread and it might not be effective – at the moment. But it’s a start, and a vitally important start.

In fact, the suggestion atm seems to be that the rebellion has the numbers to persuade the government to back down on renewal:

Graham Brady’s Covid rebellion has the numbers to succeed

145184 ▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to JohnB, 4, #340 of 1950 🔗

At this point Brady and all the rest of them that actively don’t speak up and rubbish this nonsense are part of the problem. Probably the definition of a controlled opposition.

145153 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #341 of 1950 🔗

A well known German economist has calculated that the German lockdown responses will have resulted in 37 million life years lost, versus 180.000 saved, there, a ratio of 200:1.
(We can of course add an even higher bill and factor for net life years lost of people our lockdowns killed in the 3rd world for each country, but few, least of all the wokes, seem to care about that anymore.)
What else do we need to know and consider to end this farce immediately and start the prosecution of those responsible for it?!
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.fiwi1.uni-freiburg.de/downloads/aktuelles/2020-06-15_%25C3%259Cbersehene_Folgen_der_%25C3%25B6konomischen_Vollbremsung.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwju8u3h3f7rAhUKlhQKHdqfBR0QFjAIegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0ENXT8Bgb7ajLiQahpeCD-

145187 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #342 of 1950 🔗

I read a paper in March by some health economists in the UK saying a lockdown induced recession worse than 2008 will cost more life years than just letting the virus rip – even if Ferguson’s 510,000 deaths was right.

Its a relatively simple calculation.
A deep recession takes on average 3 months of life across the population. That’s 15 million life years for a 2008 recession give or take

510,000 lost elderly lives could be 5 million life years. This assumes each covid death would otherwise have lived for 10 years extra. ten years is what ONS assumes and comes out of a very dodgy paper with the assumption that covid deaths would have lived as long as the ‘average’ within their age and underlying health issue bracket (ignoring the severity of that health issue). I imagine the real life expectancy was more like 1 or 2 years and the 510,00 was nonsense.

Even so, lockdown was always mad from a health point of view alone.

145311 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to steve_w, #343 of 1950 🔗

I think that may have been Philip Thomas, professor of risk management at Bristol University

145156 Mark, 4, #344 of 1950 🔗

Chivers has always been a big part of our general societal problem – politically correct while presenting a false front of reasonableness. Doesn’t surprise me at all that he should come out as a full on panic propagandist in that way, even if only by actively sabotaging resistance. I was rather surprised when it was claimed here a while back that he was showing signs of scepticism.

145157 Jane in France, replying to Jane in France, 25, #345 of 1950 🔗

I wish Toby Young would ask Freddie Sayers or someone to interview Didier Raoult, the head of the infectious diseases hospital in Marseilles who has been using hydroxychloroquine since the beginning. I have heard him speaking English in an interview from a few years ago so that should be all right. Unlike the dissenting doctors in Britain who can’t get their message through Boris Johnson’s thick skull, Didier Raoult is actually listened to by Macron. (Though he is one man against the rest of the ghastly scientific council.) His videos often have over a million views. Even the radio presenters, who never invite him onto their programmes, admit he has become a star in France. He can describe PCR testing, the difference between covid19 and flu and his treatment protocol with HCQ. This should be used at the onset of symptoms and government advice to stay at home till you could hardly breathe (also the advice in Britain) was responsible according to him for the high numbers of deaths in Paris. In Marseilles on the other hand they have had no significant increase in mortality this year. He is horrified by the way doctors were prohibited from prescribing HCQ in January even though it had been around for over a hundred years, any side effects were well known and at that point the epidemic in Europe hadn’t even got going. Obviously if a treatment exists for an illness there is no point in developing a vaccine. So you would try to discredit the treatment, wouldn’t you. In the English-speaking world there is an on-again off-again attitude to HCQ. I think it would be useful for English speakers to hear a man who probably knows more about it and its effectiveness in treating covid19 than anyone else in the world, who talks with passion about the subject and who has a great influence on French public opinion. Oh, and in his latest video he talks about how the virus has mutated and is not at all the same beast as the one that arrived in March.

145191 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Jane in France, 5, #346 of 1950 🔗

I would like to see Carol Vorderman or Rachel Riley do a Countdown style explanation of the Base Rate Fallacy and false positives, including the Chivers Argument above, for the entire House of Commons and MSM.

145244 ▶▶ D B, replying to Jane in France, 5, #347 of 1950 🔗

Do we think the HCQ ban was more to do with Trump advocating it than it being “dangerous”

145255 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to D B, 3, #348 of 1950 🔗

Yes, it is my understanding that hcq was available over the counter and widely used in France but was removed in January, 3 months before lockdown.

Coincidence???????

145429 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to stefarm, 2, #349 of 1950 🔗

Also i think because HCQ is used to treat other things (lupus from memory) there was concern that panic buying would lead to shortages. Chloroquine is sold otc for malaria prophylaxis in UK.

145716 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bumble, 2, #350 of 1950 🔗

The WHO Model List of Essential Medicines includes HCQ. (Unless they’ve amended it recently. 🙂 ).

145164 AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #351 of 1950 🔗

Tony Heller’s on top form

The Battle Of Britain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfIOOXXXKy8

145180 tinxx, replying to tinxx, #352 of 1950 🔗

I noticed Boris Johnson using the phrase geometric progression instead of exponential for the first time…

145239 ▶▶ D B, replying to tinxx, 2, #353 of 1950 🔗

“The iron laws of goemetric progression” – right cos average Joe Britain knows what they are…

145189 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #354 of 1950 🔗

Maybe we should start to organize the resistance by starting another round of clapping, or rather noisy booing, against the restrictions/pro Sweden’s approach.
8 or 10pm on a Thursday should be symbolic enough.

145195 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #355 of 1950 🔗

That would be the 2 minute hate ticked off then from Orwell’s handbook 1984.

146161 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to p02099003, 1, #356 of 1950 🔗

I believe the two minute hate was for the imaginary enemies rather than for Big Brother, but it would be a nice twist to change the target. After all, they’ve twisting the truth since this started.

I’m certainly up for “Boo for Boris”. In fact Ive suggested it a couple of times on here already 🙂

I thought about 10pm and I’m sure that while would attract quite a few thwarted (and possibly slightly pissed up and noisy) revellers it would put off anyone with kids that would be in bed by then, who might otherwise join in

Given this perhaps 8pm would be better.

I’d happily post printed leaflets round all the nearby houses to get something started

145200 stewart, 3, #358 of 1950 🔗

JHB grilling Raab.
Good stuff

145201 Basics, #359 of 1950 🔗

“Though this be madness, yet there is method in ’t.” – Hamlet

I agree.

145202 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 18, #360 of 1950 🔗

made me laugh yesterday

found in witty’s bin

145214 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to steve_w, 2, #361 of 1950 🔗

Ha Ha, yes, I copied it and shared it – excellent stuff

145203 NickR, replying to NickR, 1, #362 of 1950 🔗

This chart attempts to illustrate the points made by James Ferguson above. Does it help?

145210 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to NickR, 2, #363 of 1950 🔗

The step change on one day at the end of August looks like and change in the test criteria rather than cases instantly doubling on one day and only one day.

145307 ▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #364 of 1950 🔗

Good Point. The only change I can see was the sudden 86,318 additional pillar 2 satellite tests (mainly care homes we think) in w/c 03/09 which came in at stomping average 8% positivity. These conveniently created around 1,000 new cases a day, very close to a figure which was in the spectator (1,100 a day, apparently NHS sources) and backed up by variance analysis calculations. Per UK Government figures Pillar 2 positive test results rose by exactly 7,144 in week ending 9th Sept – or by 1020 a day….so this I think that explains 95+% of the increase in the first week of September. This is driving me nuts!

145248 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to alw, 7, #366 of 1950 🔗

I hope Boris and his team die a lonely and unhappy death, deprived of all human contact.

145324 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #367 of 1950 🔗

How could anybody consider them human enough to contact?

145363 ▶▶▶▶ Athanasius, replying to annie, 1, #368 of 1950 🔗

They are certainly practising social distancing from anyone with common sense.

145206 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 26, #369 of 1950 🔗

This is what I was looking for:

People who are already exempt from the existing face covering obligations, such as because of an underlying health condition, will continue to be exempt from these new obligations.

145211 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #370 of 1950 🔗

Thank god for small mercies! Was worried that there would be no exemptions.

145231 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #371 of 1950 🔗

Much thanks for that investigation. Where is your source?

To be exempt one simply has to decide one should be exempt. That’s my understanding.

Under the category “extreme anxiety” I judge we can all qualify.

I’ve downloaded “I am exempt from wearing a face covering” message from the government’s website on to my iPhone. That I imagine has to be accepted.

I invite comments.

145282 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #372 of 1950 🔗

I’ve done the same Ned – the only person who has ever challenged me is my OH, she’s a sceptic but likes the quiet life… thinks it’s embarrassing that I don’t wear it.

Ironically she probably makes up the majority – thinks the rules are stupid but follows them to be law abiding.

145334 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #373 of 1950 🔗

The category is ‘severe distress’ – section 4 paragraph 1 section a point ii. No evidence needed, no other health condition required. Literally anyone who loathes this law can declare themselves exempt from it, while remaining covered by that same law. Truly bizarre. But it means we can all do it.

145442 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Alethea, 1, #374 of 1950 🔗

Thank you for correcting me.

“Severe” seems a lot more obtainable – a bit like the classification in rock climbing as I dimly remember. Diff, V. Diff, Severe, Extreme. (There were some very rare climbs categorised as ‘Easy’ which I was very comfortable with.)

146919 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ned of the Hills, #375 of 1950 🔗

Ned, just having a quick check before bed. You prob already have your answer, but if not:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-covid-19-what-has-changed-22-september

145247 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #376 of 1950 🔗

Everyone is exempt, being tortured and humiliated is a trigger for anxiety.

145278 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to stefarm, #377 of 1950 🔗

Preferably locked in the Tower.

146007 ▶▶ MsStroppster, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #378 of 1950 🔗

Sam Vimes, please can you a link to the source of this information

146689 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MsStroppster, 1, #379 of 1950 🔗

Check in the mask section of Toby’s newsletter.

145212 Adamb, replying to Adamb, 10, #381 of 1950 🔗

I see Carl Heneghan met Boris on Sunday evening – doesn’t look like he listened to him much, maybe he would have gone even further without that meeting.

145238 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Adamb, 9, #382 of 1950 🔗

Bozo is playing games he wants to be seen as listening to other viewpoints but we know he has only one focus and that’s Gates’s vaccine. There is something not quite right with him, they are going to have to remove him very soon.

145246 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #383 of 1950 🔗

He’s either being threatened or on a promise

145251 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Adamb, 2, #384 of 1950 🔗

Heneghan claimed different on R4 this meeting. He says that now we are finally following the Swedish model ie keep schools and bars open.

145263 ▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #385 of 1950 🔗

Yes I was surprised to see him claim that while a good proportion of the country is already in lockdown and the godawful “rule of six” (I can hardly bring myself to write that) is in force.

146297 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Adamb, 1, #386 of 1950 🔗

I scoffed at the comparison to Sweden. This is nothing like it. Sweden had no power to enforce anything, whereas according to Boris here it will be.

145341 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #387 of 1950 🔗

Yes I was disappointed in that response from him, because I assume Swedish bars don’t have the ludicrous mask rules now being introduced.

145217 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #388 of 1950 🔗

If Boris was working for China or the EU, for that matter, he couldnt have done a better job. All most people see is that, no one they know has died of Covid, or even been ill from covid. I know a teacher who thought she had symptoms, took a test, had to isolate until results 2 days later and was negative and went back to work, the symptoms had gone by then! Back to the 1st sentence.

145225 ▶▶ D B, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #389 of 1950 🔗

Ironically I know a few people in a younger age group who had relatively bad symptoms, for no more than a day, I had it “diagnosed” when I was in hospital for something else. Most tragically my brother’s girlfriend’s father scratched himself badly in peak lockdown on a washing machine (50 and very fit) – forced to wait outside an A&E in a queue in the rain for over 2 hours and ended up dying of sepsis a few days later.

145266 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to D B, 4, #390 of 1950 🔗

Very sorry to hear that, the tragedies of this will go on and on now, covid deaths will be the exception.

145275 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #391 of 1950 🔗

Indeed, all we can do is know that we were on the right side when this comes out in the wash. I am keeping a note of people who I can say I told you so to.

145219 Philip F, replying to Philip F, 13, #392 of 1950 🔗

Non feram, non patiar, non sinam.

I wont bear it, I wont endure it, I wont allow it.

145236 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Philip F, 1, #393 of 1950 🔗

But it is the punch-line that is difficult to find.

145321 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to IanE, 3, #394 of 1950 🔗

Non faciam.

145224 stewart, replying to stewart, 38, #395 of 1950 🔗

Wow.

JHB just told Raab the number of healthy under 70s that have died of corona (around 300) – because he had no clue – and he was stunned to silence. It took him a couple of seconds to gather himself.

The government literally have no clue.

145276 ▶▶ Will, replying to stewart, 7, #396 of 1950 🔗

More poor souls have taken their own lives….

145279 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to stewart, 4, #397 of 1950 🔗

Even more concerning Raab used Yougov polls as policy justification. Great track record haven’t they Yougov, young Eddie Miliband was to be pm in every Yougov poll for years. didn’t even get close. Same for the adorable Hillary she didn’t make it either.

145287 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to stewart, 11, #398 of 1950 🔗

So that’s Raab, Shapps and Gimlet-Eyes Hancock all taken apart in the last few days.
How long before cabinet ministers stop appearing on her program?

145329 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to stewart, 1, #399 of 1950 🔗

They are destroying the hospitality sector to save it 🙁

145379 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to stewart, 6, #400 of 1950 🔗

Raabit in the headlights! I’ll get my coat

146103 ▶▶ Mel, replying to stewart, 1, #401 of 1950 🔗

Why, why, why, can they not see that, yes we are connected to the elderly. The way to break the chains of transmission is with young, healthy, immune people, who don’t pass it on!

145227 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 5, #402 of 1950 🔗

Is it possible they could and are imcreasing the PCR cycles to find more (false)positives??

145237 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to stefarm, 9, #403 of 1950 🔗

Yes, and even deliberately contaminating samples – they will stop at nothing to keep this on the road, including killing more elderly in care homes. They are duplicitous and evil.

145290 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #404 of 1950 🔗

“They are duplicitous and evil.”

It’s worse than that – they are duplicitous because they believe what they are doing is for the greater good. They are indeed functionally evil, but not necessarily essentially so. As C S Lewis suggests, they might go to Heaven themselves, while creating Hell on Earth.

145318 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 1, #405 of 1950 🔗

The killers go to Heaven? Never.

145326 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 4, #406 of 1950 🔗

Was just referring to Lewis’s original quote, often referenced in this regard:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

145295 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to stefarm, 4, #407 of 1950 🔗

It’s already above 40 or a trillion to one amplification. [( 2 raised to the power of the number of cycles {2**N})
2**10 =1024
2**20= 1024 * 1024
2**30= 1024*1024*1024
2**40 = 1024**4 = 10**12 ]

145430 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to p02099003, #408 of 1950 🔗

I have Numblexia, you lost me there.

146699 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to p02099003, #409 of 1950 🔗

It should be 35 at the absolute maximum.

145234 petgor, replying to petgor, 12, #410 of 1950 🔗

They keep going on as though testing is the panacea which will resolve everything. Unless I am missing something or being particularly naive, all that testing will achieve is that you do or you don’t have the virus at the moment of testing. If the latter, then there is no guarantee that you won’t get it the next day. That means that we would all need to be tested hourly, to be sure, to be sure!

145256 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to petgor, 3, #411 of 1950 🔗

Testing is a smokescreen, keeps up the rhetoric. Anyway people are only human and if they want to they can always invent some numbers to, it’s always been done, on checks for vehicles, road schemes etc, to get the results they want.

145293 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to petgor, 4, #412 of 1950 🔗

And Labour think the fact there are holes in the blanket testing system or not enough tests is the issue to show how much of an opposition you are.

It’s pathetic.

145308 ▶▶ stewart, replying to petgor, 5, #413 of 1950 🔗

Mass testing is a precursor to permanent health surveillance.

They first establish the principle that people need to prove that they are healthy to be free to leave their homes, based on a government definition of healthy. Now it’s being uninfected by this coronavirus. In the future it will be something else.

Once that principle is established then it just becomes a matter of procedure and logistics. The first attempt is a ramshackle testing scheme, but it will improve and expand. Eventually we’ll all be scanned in and out of places as is already happening in many places in Asia.

145235 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 3, #414 of 1950 🔗

The three graphs together in the James Ferguson parl… briefing section in todays LS are simple and visually excellent for debunking the ridiculous dooms day graf use din the CSO & CMO presentation – people really only got the headline ‘50000 cases in october’ bit – the 3 graphs bring a bit of reality and perspective

I have printed them off as an easy visual explanation of what is actually happening when you take out the sensationalist bollocks.

It would be very handy to have a weekly update of these 3 graphs

145252 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Major Panic, 2, #415 of 1950 🔗

Yes, but it also has to be factored that any Covid hospitalisation or death will be anybody that tested positive within 28 days, not necessarily because of Covid.

The slight rise shown in the bottom two graphs could just be a result of increased testing, and it may rise further yet.

145240 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 8, #416 of 1950 🔗

There is a petition to “Repeal the Coronavirus Act 2020” here:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/313310

I’m sure the Government won’t act on it, but at least they can’t say we didn’t complain about it, if we sign. Over 41,000 signatures already.

145300 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to zacaway, 1, #417 of 1950 🔗

Done

145729 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to zacaway, #418 of 1950 🔗

Done.

Yes we need to get the signatures up to 100,000

145241 Jules, replying to Jules, 2, #419 of 1950 🔗

The interview with the Chairman of the 1922 Committee was worthless. It was given on the same day as we were told the troops would be deployed to ensure we behave. At what point will these useless tools start to act? Mr Sayers seems a nice bloke but he didn’t ask for any time frames for action by these lazy bastards, or what specific measures might trigger a move eg when the first old lady dies at the hands of a “marshal” or chokes to death on her mask.

145245 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jules, 2, #420 of 1950 🔗

To be fair, I think it was the day before – the day the ‘scientists’ presented their graphs. Brady was also interviewed by Beff on Sky the same day.

145259 ▶▶▶ Jules, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #421 of 1950 🔗

Which was when the informed speculation was that new and harsher restrictions were coming. They were already specific enough for Mr Sayers to pose some “what ifs”.

145242 crimsonpirate, 7, #422 of 1950 🔗

currently listening to More or Less Radio 4-current discussion about false positive. Interview with David Spiegelhalter. They are currently taking apart Matt Hancock’s appearance on JHB. Interesting listen!

145250 W.Hurst, 20, #423 of 1950 🔗

Please be aware the there is a peaceful protest organised for this coming Saturday (26th) at 12pm at Trafalgar Square.

I feel it is vitally important that as many people go as possible, first the first time I will be attending. Without support at these protests the government will just not listen to us. If many thousands of people protest in London every Saturday they will have to sit up and take notice.

145253 Lockdown_Lunacy, 7, #424 of 1950 🔗

Same ratio of mask/no-mask at school drop off this morning. Approx 50/50. Perhaps the shock tactics have only make the scared more scared, whilst the indifferent remain so?

145262 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 14, #425 of 1950 🔗

Never ever worn a muzzle and don’t intend to but it is restricting, in the uk on holiday refusing point blank to go in anywhere where a muzzle is enforced, seeing people dragging out their rag from anywhere, often from hanging on their wrist, fiddling and stretching it as they walk around, before putting it on, nauseating.

145277 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #426 of 1950 🔗

Same. I’ve not used the exempt statement as I can get by locally with general things given my village store and off license don’t enforce it, but about 90% wear them anyway.

However it’s put me off going into town for a wander around shops, which I enjoyed doing with my kids on occasion. I won’t be back until things change. If ever.

If restaurants start making people wear them, which Boris is threatening now with making it law, I’ll be giving that a swerve as well. Maybe try with the exempt thing on a specific occasion if I need to.

This madness needs to end

145306 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #427 of 1950 🔗

I’ve got my exemption Lanyard ready, printed from the Gov.uk’s own site! havent used it yet but may have to, to even get in the door of an eaterie, but would rather not. Yes it does need to end, its totally over the top and a smokescreen for whatever they’re up to or going to get up to.

145317 ▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #428 of 1950 🔗

The exemption path really does work. Know that you are covered by the law. Hold your head up. Don’t be alarmed when you are challenged. Say, ‘I’m exempt,’ in a steady, confident tone. Don’t apologise, don’t add detail. Expect them to back down. They will.

145331 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Alethea, 5, #429 of 1950 🔗

And SMILE – they hate that!

145361 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to bluemoon, 6, #430 of 1950 🔗

Smile though your heart is aching
Smile even though it’s breaking
When there are clouds in the sky, you’ll get by
If you smile through your fear and sorrow
Smile and maybe tomorrow
You’ll see the sun come shining through for you

145360 ▶▶ matt, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #431 of 1950 🔗

I’ve never worn a mask, and will not. I am avoiding places that require them though – not entirely, but largely. I agree it’s restricting. I’ve got 2 current specific problems: I have tickets for the Greenwich comedy festival tomorrow evening and I’m supposed to be going with a couple of my older boy’s best friends’ dads. They’ve just sent through details of the event, which say that masks must be worn when moving around the site. This thing is _outside_. I’m inclined not to go after all, but either way I have an awkward conversation ahead of me and although I don’t have to engage with these people, I don’t want to harm my son’s friendships, because that wouldn’t be fair.

And then, we’re supposed to be spending half term out in the country with my mum and my aunt. That’s fine – there will be 6 of us – but it’s very limiting in terms of where we can go for lunch and things. On the one hand, I don’t mind claiming exemption, but on the other hand, if an apparently fit 40-something man, in a group including two pension-age women claims exemption and they don’t, it’s awkward to say the least and I’m not inclined to make my mother and aunt awkward. This is October so we can’t realistically get around it by just sitting outside.

Plus the fact that the one small pleasure that had been allowed to me – nipping to the pub for an hour or two and ignoring the nonsense – has now been denied to me.

Anyway, they may lock us down again completely and at least solve the second problem for me.

145651 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to matt, 2, #432 of 1950 🔗

My ‘Get out of Jail free card’ works a treat. Used it in two DIY sheds this morning with no issues.

146196 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to matt, 2, #433 of 1950 🔗

I’d respectfully suggest that you put aside the awkwardness factor and go with your instincts. A seemingly heathy 40 year old man could have any number of hidden health problems, including severe distress brought on by having to wear a dehumaning snotrag.

146314 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to matt, 2, #434 of 1950 🔗

Please stand your ground and still go to the comedy festival and to the pub during half term. Maybe you’ll find a pub which does not go along with it?
By us normal people going out and – literally – showing our face, we will start a conversation and maybe even change some minds.

145380 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #435 of 1950 🔗

I have my exemption lanyard and have not been challenged if I have to go into a shop. It will be interesting to see what happens in a restaurant however Mr Bart is adamant that we should use takeaways and deliveries more.

They key is to have good posture, walk with head held high and say simply “I’m exempt” if asked. If pressed further take their name and state that you’re complaining.

Also helps to dress smartly.

146129 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #436 of 1950 🔗

A couple entering John Lewis in Ashford today. Saw them stop by the door to sanitize hands and put masks on. He was carrying a poodle with his hand on the belly near its genitals. Having made themselves safe, he walked in still carrying the poodle with hand where stated.
Incredible!

145267 Will, replying to Will, 9, #437 of 1950 🔗

Interestingly the bed wetters on FB seem to be getting a touch belligerent. Some even starting to wonder whether youngsters shouldn’t be getting on with their lives to build up…. herd immunity!!!!

145286 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Will, 6, #438 of 1950 🔗

Seems to me they only shift their views when it suits them in terms of their narrow little worlds. It’s not based on anything backed up with good info.

So Boris took away your Friday night at the pub again so now you are angry. Or your daughter is finding that sitting in her dorm at Uni, away from her family for months on end, no uni experience and all lessons online, is a tad depressing.

Well no shit. Welcome to reality

145333 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Will, 5, #439 of 1950 🔗

If this had been framed as being the duty of young people to catch the virus, build community immunity and save granny, they would have gone along with it from the start. Anyone under 40 wearing masks and staying at home would be accused of being a granny killer.

145412 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Will, #440 of 1950 🔗

Not what I’ve seen, seems to me they feel even more empowered although that might be something to do with all the piss taking memes ect I keep posting …the Fu**g Cretins

145269 Sarigan, 13, #441 of 1950 🔗

A much needed dose of humour from the Daily Mash:
Government launches ‘Get Shitfaced at 11am to Help Out’ scheme

The government has countered its pub curfew by launching the ‘Get Shitfaced at 10am to Help Out’ scheme to support hostelries.

As pubs claim they will suffer financially from being forced to close an hour early, citizens are being urged to get on the beers straight after breakfast to save the economy.
Business secretary Alok Sharma said: “We’re calling on the nation to come together and do what it does best: get pissed.

“We’ll show coronavirus that it can’t bring the alcohol-fuelled British economy to a halt just by threatening to kill us.

“We’re going to carry on pouring money into Wetherspoons’ tills by getting bevved up in an enclosed space, regardless of curfews, public health guidance and basic common sense. Just earlier in the day.”

The new scheme will foot half the bill for any Briton who downs eight units between 11am and 12pm, and provide an informative leaflet on how to hide drunkeness on afternoon video calls with the boss.

Sharma continued: “Do your patriotic duty and get pissed. This has nothing to do with us wanting you hammered enough not to notice how bad we are at running the country.”

145270 Mark, replying to Mark, 17, #442 of 1950 🔗

The Unherd interview with Graham Brady is actually very encouraging. He’s clearly not a full on opponent of the panic, but he’s certainly saying a lot of the right things and showing a healthy degree of scepticism in the proper sense of the word – asking for justification of measures like masks, and questioning why Parliament is still adhering to even the sillier distancing restrictions.

It’s not the election of Toby as God-Emperor, but it’s definitely a start.

Sayers: “Do you think there would be enough Tory votes to pass a full national lockdown?”

Brady: “I think there would be a very significant number of Conservative members of parliament who would vote against the full national lockdown. And I have to say my, uh, the responses that I’ve had from members of the public, and in particular my own constituents over the last few weeks particularly in debating the local restrictions in Trafford, overwhelmingly I think people are in a mood where they want to be treated as adults, they are prepared to treat the virus seriously, but they expect to be able to use their common sense and judgement. They don’t expect to have their lives micromanaged by the government.”

145297 ▶▶ Jules, replying to Mark, 8, #443 of 1950 🔗

But when is Brady going to act? It seems he is okay with having the troops on the streets to frighten old people, weddings and funerals destroyed, grandparents unable to visit family, people choking on their disgusting soiled masks, cancer patients left unattended, suicides, young mothers without post natal support, massive rises in abortions, massive rises in domestic violence and sexual assaults on women…

145315 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jules, 5, #444 of 1950 🔗

I’m not sure what you expect in terms of action here? He’s acted by organising a Commons rebellion (or rather the threat of one) to try to prevent the renewal of the Coronavirus Act powers, and also, it seems, to warn the government that it might lose a vote for a full lockdown. In Parliamentary terms, that’s real action.

It’s not everything we’d want, but it’s at least something.

Whether or not he would want to overturn many of the present impositions, he lacks the power to do so. But once things are back in the Commons there will be a lot more scope for thrashing out such details, rather than having them just imposed by a government cabal.

145272 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 20, #445 of 1950 🔗

Keep going to the office. Keep taking your kids to the school with a smile on yr face. There was no panic buying yesterday despite the msm`s best efforts and the roads are pretty busy again today. The good will out in the end and these morons will be held accountable – one day.

145398 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to nickbowes, 6, #446 of 1950 🔗

This goes to show that many people are waking up.

Even a friend of mine who is pretty much a lockdownista has agreed with me that another lockdown would finish us off. Like me she’s in danger of losing her job, her mum has just been made redundant and her dad was forced to take early retirement a few years’ ago. If she loses her job her other sibling would be the only one left employed.

U turns are coming when they themselves are being affected by this insanity.

145273 Miss Owl, replying to Miss Owl, 14, #447 of 1950 🔗

So what’s today’s stupid three-word slogan?

May I suggest the following:

Willy, bum, tit

145397 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #448 of 1950 🔗

Haha there goes my gulp of tea all over the shop 😂

145947 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Miss Owl, #449 of 1950 🔗

You forgot the bollocks! (male only)

145274 Richard, replying to Richard, 48, #450 of 1950 🔗

Interesting development ! I e-mailed my Conservative MP this morning and said you have to act and stop this over reaction for sake of future democracy and your party. Didn’t expect a reply got one within 2 minutes and he wants to call me to discuss more tomorrow. Specifically referenced the numerical illiteracy by Shapps and Hancock on the false positive rates and devastation to retail. I hope Tyneside Tigress is correct -they know they have to do something to get these clowns out.

145310 ▶▶ annie, replying to Richard, 4, #451 of 1950 🔗

Hey, brill, keep us posted!

145357 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to annie, 2, #452 of 1950 🔗

Will do – Stewart great fact – I think I need no more than three other killer ones – open to any suggestions – happy to act as voice for anyone here !’

145548 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Richard, 4, #453 of 1950 🔗
  1. Sweden shows lockdowns etc pointless
  2. Japan shows nursing homes can be protected
  3. From peer reviewed and published research, the common cold is known to be a worse killer than influenza for the immunocompromised so the spike in mortality caused by immediate discharge of patients from hospital in March to free up beds was entirely predictable, avoidable.
  4. Professor John Nicholls, an acknowledged coronavirus expert based in China during the outbreak said (phone interview 06 Feb Accuweather) that data from the whole of China at that early stage indicated covid 19 was a severe cold, another common cold coronavirus
  5. Subsequent covid 19 mortality figures from Italy had to be revised down to 12% of the original figure
  6. UK covid 19 mortality figures are widely thought to be unreliable (CEBM), overall mortality for this year (the only reliable data) is similar to a bad influenza year
146153 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Richard, 4, #454 of 1950 🔗

Average age at death of corona victims – 82. Average age at death all causes – 81.

146351 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Richard, 1, #455 of 1950 🔗

Richard – great opportunity, but please check your facts. In the interview Raab is asked about those under 60, who have died in English hospitals from february through to (December?), with no underlying health conditions.
If you are to have credibility, you must get all facts correct.
Good luck.

Some other facts:
1) Currently you are 100 times more likely to die of something else. https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_sep_covid_update
This is an argument about disproportionate response.
2) Flu deaths are now 13 times higher than Covid deaths (this may be out of date, with recent increase in Covid deaths) and they are the same/similar for your average flu season. In other words, Johnson’s interventions have had no effect on flu, which is also a coronavirus, and thus do not work (for flu, and by logical extension, for covid)
3) There has been gross exaggeration of Covid deaths by reporting dying ‘with’ Covid rather than ‘of’ Covid. In the US, their CDC (health authority) reckoned that only 6% of the reported 160,000 US deaths were without co-morbidities. If extrapolate to the UK, and why not?, then only about 2500 have died in the UK solely from Covid, and not Covid with some other life-threatening disease.
4) I would also pick some facts out of this Ivor Cummins video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac
5) And, of course, much info on this Lockdown Sceptics site; and also here:
http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/

145316 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Richard, 12, #456 of 1950 🔗

Fantastic!

Reference the statistic that only 300 odd people under 70 who are healthy have died from this disease and the fact that Dominic Raab was clearly stunned by that information when it was presented to him by JHB.

The fact is really simple to grasp and seems to surprise people.

145319 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Richard, 2, #457 of 1950 🔗

Good news!

145402 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Richard, 1, #458 of 1950 🔗

Good news!!! Glad that he wants to have a chat and is showing a willingness to engage.

145885 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #459 of 1950 🔗

Yes was surprised ! Will see how it goes he has only been there for less than a year. Separately have now had acknowledgment from Graham Brady’s office that he has had my note and will read it. As am not constituent am unlikely to get a reply – we can be cynical and say he won’t but I do think it has to be worth everyone here writing and encouraging him to sort this – from the comments from his office there are clearly significantly higher amount sof correspondence coming in to him now – can’t imagine many of them are saying well done – keep the inboxes filling up !!

145281 alw, replying to alw, 25, #460 of 1950 🔗

Good suggestion

145312 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to alw, 2, #461 of 1950 🔗

Government officials&co will get placebos on TV.
The only way to make sure that they get the actual vaccine would be to vaccinate them within a group of people, where the syringes are allocated randomly and swapped with another person’s again at the very last second for that official.

145339 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to alw, #462 of 1950 🔗

Great idea but effects might take a long time to work through! Think of thalidomide.

145391 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to alw, 1, #463 of 1950 🔗

Like Gummer feeding his daughter a burger during the BSE episode, let’s have a love vaccination of Hancock’s kids.

145284 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, #464 of 1950 🔗

Currently listening to ‘More or Less’on Radio 4, Prof Spiegelhalter was talking about the false +ve rate. Now I am more confused than ever!
He seemed to imply that you could not apply the false +ve rate to pillar 2 testing because it was not a random test and most people being tested had symptoms.
Did anyone else hear this item? what did you make of it?
If the false +ve rate cannot be applied to a non random sample? how do you assess pillar 2 testing?

I was planning to write to my MP again about testing but need to get this aspect sorted first.

145288 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Steve Martindale, #465 of 1950 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mr42 here’s the link. My head is still hurting. I’ll probably need to listen to it a couple of times to make any sense of it.

145298 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #466 of 1950 🔗

This is what Toby was talking about above – you do still get false positives in a non-random sample, but it’s a comparable situation to when prevalence is higher in the population as a whole (i.e. they are a smaller proportion of the overall positives). However, if it is a non-random sample then it’s not representative of the country and you can’t scale the results to the whole population.

145411 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Andrew Fish, 6, #467 of 1950 🔗

I would add (as a complete layman, but applying logic). The point that’s being made is that if you have the symptoms of the disease, it is more likely that you actually have the disease. That is an obvious truism. However, that fact does nothing to affect the likelihood that someone who has similar symptoms (and none of the symptoms are specific) but in fact has a different infection might turn up a false positive result.

The death figures of recent weeks strongly suggest that ‘flu is currently at least 10x as prevalent as SARS 2, so if you have a cough and a fever, it’s much more likely that you’re suffering from a ‘flu. Add in the fact that rhinovirus and other coronaviruses are presumably also seeing a seasonal increase and in reality, the least likely diagnosis for your cough and raised temperature is that you have Covid.

145567 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, 2, #468 of 1950 🔗

I think that the debate around ‘false positives’ has perhaps sidelined what might be under that umbrella term.

The PCR testing in Pillar 2 involves a long chain of events, from the sampling to the identification of an RNA fragment, to the number of cycles used. At any stage, something can go wrong

145598 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to RickH, 2, #469 of 1950 🔗

Part of the problem is that false positives aren’t an umbrella term, but some people are treating them as such. A false positive isn’t the same thing as a positive result from a dead bit of RNA. This distinction is critical, because eventually the dead RNA will all disappear, but false positives (as in positives with no RNA) will continue to occur. This is the point my MP keeps ducking.

145301 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #470 of 1950 🔗

From your description, that’s exactly what the James Ferguson piece above is addressing.

145323 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #471 of 1950 🔗

I understand what James Ferguson is saying, but given that the vast majority of Pillar 2 tests turn out negative then surely the false positive rate is still significant?

I do believe that cases are rising despite false positives, but only as expected come September.

145336 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #472 of 1950 🔗

Absolutely. False positives exist independent of the actual positives, but the key is the ratio. The lower the rate of real positives, whether in a random sample or a biased sample as a whole, the more the results are corrupted by the false positives. Therefore, it doesn’t really matter if the sample is random or not, if the number of positive tests is very low for the sample, the odds are that most or all are false.

145505 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #473 of 1950 🔗

Can’t believe my mathemetical logic was right – it’s usually pretty poor!

145557 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to A. Contrarian, #474 of 1950 🔗

I think we’ve all spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff now. Clearly, it’s getting people to dust off their logical and mathematical brains and give them a workout. I use mine for work anyway, so it needs a bit less dusting.

145335 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Steve Martindale, #475 of 1950 🔗

If the Prof’s facts are correct – 112,000 tests in June/July only produced 50 positives – then maximum FPR would be less than 0.05% if ALL the 50 positives were false.

(Also we keep getting told that the majority of cases are asymptomatic young people – yet the Prof said all the pillar 2 tests are are on symptomatic people – which is it?)

145345 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Major Panic, 3, #476 of 1950 🔗

Not quite. You can’t infer the maximum FPR from any random sample any more than you can infer the number of sides on a dice from a series of rolls. Every test is a mathematically unique event with no reference to those before it, so even with an FPR of 2% you could get 100% false positives or 0% for any given sample in the same way you can roll 1 on hundreds of successive dice rolls.

I got the impression from Neil Oliver’s interview on Talk Radio the other week that Scottish schools are requiring tests for children as a condition of attendance (correct me if I’m wrong) – he was talking about having to go to a test centre in England to get them tested. That means a lot of the tests are going to be on asymptomatic young people.

145353 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Andrew Fish, #477 of 1950 🔗

but 112,000 tests is quits a big sample – for an FPR of 0.8 – surely you would see far more FPs than just 50 – I was hoping someone was going to say that Prof Spiegelhalter got his facts wrong

145369 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Major Panic, 1, #478 of 1950 🔗

Unfortunately that’s not how probability works. It’s like when Apple introduced random play on the iPod. People with large music collections would find it frequently played the same track twice in succession – it’s not very probable, but it happens. The Government says that, based on about 40 studies, the FPR is somewhere between 0.8% and 4.0% with a median of 2.3%. Of course, we don’t know how big those studies were, so there’s a margin of error even in those results.

145394 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Andrew Fish, #479 of 1950 🔗

Hmmm… complicated stuff – sounds like we need an even more qualified statistician to debunk Prof Spiegelhalter’s statistical thinking

145500 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Andrew Fish, #480 of 1950 🔗

That’s what I was saying above. A test itself will be calibrated with a certain error rate which may be an average of different calibration runs against a known sample. But in general it will also come with a set of conditions that it is best used for.

When you deviate from how the tool should be used don’t be surprised it doesn’t give the result you think

146738 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, #481 of 1950 🔗

There’s been an assumption that people turning up for pillar 2 tests do so because they have symptoms.
This is not true because many asymptomatic people are forced to get tested for work, school, travel etc.

145386 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #482 of 1950 🔗

Wow head scratching stuff, It does seem to me that the higher the false +ve rate the more questionable it is to rely on a test alone to make major public health decisions.

How are they working out the false positive rate? Presumably to double check a PCR test result you have to do a full microbiological procedure which is costly and time consuming. I am guessing that with PCR tests the false positives come from the difficulty of the machinery reading the final immunofluorescence, the number of amplification cycles and any cross contamination, all of which will vary from lab to lab.

Thank you all, I think this gives me enough background for a letter to my MP, he will probably just fob me off, he usually does!

145427 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Steve Martindale, #483 of 1950 🔗

That’s an interesting question. We don’t really know how they arrive at their false positive rates for PCR tests. Are they the same for PCR tests for all diseases or do some fare better than others? If they work it out by retesting samples with a “more reliable” test, how do we know that test is more reliable and how do we know that the samples being retested are in any way representative? I suppose you could test known negative cases umpteen times and see how many times you get a positive result from the same person, but how many times is enough for a reliable figure? This is probably why there are so many studies with such a wide range of results.

145453 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Andrew Fish, #484 of 1950 🔗

You test by growing in culture. As well as the false positives, usually caused by contamination there is also the issue of cold positives. This is where pcr is set at too sensitive a level so you get a true positive but it is clinically irrelevant.

145533 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Bumble, #485 of 1950 🔗

Yes, I was aware of the distinction. Presumably growing in culture would eliminate both types.

145441 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #486 of 1950 🔗

On a first listen to this I think there is clearly one faulty assumption underlying the Prof’s response which others have already alluded to. He said pillar 2 testing is supposed to be for people with symptoms. Higher pre-test probability would have an impact in bringing down assumed FPR. However, when Dido Harding gave evidence to the select committee last week she said her own team had done surveys at testing stations and 25% of respondents admitted that they had lied (although she refused to use that word) about having symptoms to secure a test. The only thing that surprises me about that is that so many would confess to this – I am certain that many, if not most people, would keep up the pretence if questioned and the true rate of malingering would be much higher.

As others have already said, if we are being told that many positive tests are in asymptomatic youngsters then this further undermines his assumption. I have profound respect for him but I think he is missing a trick when he says that FPR in pillar 2 is just a distraction.

145725 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #487 of 1950 🔗

No the majority of people tested outside of hospital (pillar 2) are linked to their jobs; care home workers, hospital workers (tested outside hospital), other businesses. Many of these are tested every week.

145285 aiden, replying to aiden, 4, #488 of 1950 🔗

Last night’s announcement posted by the Guardian on Youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnlvJICCBfA ). The comments are heartening. I hadn’t realised that so much of the Guardian readership had come to their senses.

145305 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to aiden, 2, #489 of 1950 🔗

Especially so when considering that they censor 90% of the critical stuff…

145289 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #490 of 1950 🔗

The Westminster Bubble has never been more apparent than now, they seem clueless to what is actually going on, only what the ‘scientists’, Cummings, and the agenda remainers are telling them.

145340 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #491 of 1950 🔗

Are you serious saying they don’t know what they are doing? Wait, off course you are, you’re a vegetable how could you know?

145296 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #492 of 1950 🔗

Latest piece from Jon Rappoport, on how the bad guys might try to tweak the data –
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/09/22/how-cdc-will-fake-effects-of-covid-vaccine-make-it-look-like-success/

145302 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to JohnB, 1, #493 of 1950 🔗

On the positive side, this should make it less likely that those likely ineffective but dangerous vaccinations must and will be made mandatory…

145304 PoshPanic, 13, #494 of 1950 🔗

Masked off! Made another poster..

145320 Awkward Git, 1, #495 of 1950 🔗

To those who wanted the correspondence with the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner yesterday evening here is a link to my full e-mail chain with them:

https://1drv.ms/t/s!Agv7JEO8MngCiUiVm6jYpGphCohF?e=qinwfr

They are not interested.

https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/standards-and-financial-interests/parliamentary-commissioner-for-standards/parliamentary-commissioner-for-standards/contact-us/

This is the Intelligence UK website that have written to hera nd told her they are preparing a case for the ICC against her.

http://www.intelligenceuk.com/newsx10.html

145328 Kev, replying to Kev, 17, #496 of 1950 🔗

Seeing as they like their graphs so much, try this for size.

Wearing of masks was made mandatory on 24th July, look at the “cases” graph in the James Ferguson article above, you could say they started going up round about that exact time, without even being too disengenuous.

I’m aware that correlation does not equate to causation, but hey, they started it! It’s at least as plausible as carbons cause warming.

So perfectly justified in claiming the wearing of masks has caused the spike in cases.

145513 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Kev, 4, #497 of 1950 🔗

Justified, logical and confirmed by country comparisons.
Masks impede on the efficacy of SD, infect wearers through their wrong use (touching face) and, if they can hold back virus particles (a big IF), they will very likely also turn a mildly infected, asymptomatic non-infectious wearer into the more infected and infectious one, by making him inhale his previously exhaled particles, and that even deeper and into the lungs, where they will also do more damage.
Outside of healthcare settings, where (only) properly used N95 masks can and should offer protection to the truly endangered and vulnerable, their use should really be FORBIDDEN!
That is, if they really wanted to reduce positive test numbers or true infections, which must now indeed
be questioned.

145554 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Kev, 2, #498 of 1950 🔗

I think the evidence is now clear (apart from the earlier meta-studies that showed no convincing evidence for the efficacy of masks). Graphs of infection, hospitalisation or death show no effect from lockdown, the introduction of mask-wearing or the opening of pubs.

But you won’t get that from the MSM.

145337 Biker, replying to Biker, 24, #499 of 1950 🔗

Boris threatened the people with the army. Let that sink in for a second. A British PM has threatened the people of this island with the army. He should be wearing a uniform like some Military Dictator. There is no hope of us ever getting out of this. Why you might ask am i so despondent? Well since this virus isn’t anything other than any other virus and has killed less people than the flu and they’re getting way with threatening the British people with the army over it it stands to reason that it will never go away. Boris and Sturgeon and their traitorous like have succeeded where the Nazi’s failed. They’re taken over our country and imprisoned us under the military. It seems, to my next to no surprise whatsoever that most of the Vegetables of this country are just fucking dandy with that.
You better make preparations because when the army is on the streets of any country you don’t matter. You have no rights. Armed men and women pointing a gun at you don’t care about you, your family and worst of all themselves. Very dangerous indeed.
There is no recourse to be found in Parliament, none in the Media, nowhere at all in the NHS, the education people are torturing your children with fear and hysteria so no hope with them. All in all we are done for. The vaccine won’t be coming, why else do you think they’ve used an unvaxable virus? As it stands we can never get rid of it therefore we can never get rid of the occupation of our Island.
A revolutionary army will one day rise up and a bloody war will ensue and in five hundred years people will visit battlefields for the fallen hero’s who saved us from the Global Tyranny that we must all live under at the minute. This will be a hard road and will take perhaps one hundred years or more. Perhaps we’ll never escape the technological tyranny we’ve created. Only the running out of fossil fuel energy will humanity escape this. Maybe it’s evolution. Maybe it’s a good thing that i can sit in my house on my own, after working all day, stuffing my face with doughnuts while watching a screen. Maybe that’s peak evolution. We’ve conquered the planet and now we can sit and do fuck all but eat doughnuts. Only the slaves who make this possible suffer and we don’t give two fucking shits for them, no one cares about their grannies. Keep working fools they say, burn all the fossil fuels and keep doing what we fucking tell you.
The vegetables that inhabit our island have brains made from the stuff they put in the jars of baby food.

145377 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Biker, 4, #500 of 1950 🔗

Yes, your last sentence sums up the problem well

145424 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Biker, 1, #501 of 1950 🔗

Didn’t I see on last UK Column , the army is being “feminised” and not just the female squaddies?

145586 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to David Grimbleby, #502 of 1950 🔗

All part of the Transgender agenda to eradicate sexuality all together and introduce the concept of A-sexual humans and ultimately, Synthetic automatons connected to Kurzweil’s AI controlled hive mind.

They want to create ‘state hatcheries’ where you are no longer conceived and born but engineered and grown.

If you think that is too fanciful, you haven’t been paying attention

But you’ll be superhuman like one of The Avengers!

145432 ▶▶ redbirdpete, replying to Biker, 1, #503 of 1950 🔗

The suppression of individuality in the spurious name of diversity has been going on for some while.

145510 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Biker, 4, #504 of 1950 🔗

Boris threatened the people with the army. Let that sink in for a second.”

You’re absolutely right – it should sink in to the marrow. But I don’t see much evidence that it has whilst the historically and politically illiterate gaze at the derring-do of the Battler of Britain without grasping the ironic significance.

‘some Military Dictator’ – The one that comes to mind is that is the fantasy of Billy Liar, (played by Tom Courtenay in the film) – a sad narcissist wrapped up in illusion, whose lies inflict havoc but who (here’s the hopeful bit) – eventually reveals himself as a pathetic weakling.

145942 ▶▶ Lee Enfield, replying to Biker, 2, #505 of 1950 🔗

Now you understand why successive governments since 1920 have disarmed the people of the UK. Remember the saying, “when only the police have guns, you’re living in a police state”.

146664 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lee Enfield, 2, #506 of 1950 🔗

You’re forgetting the ones who still hold guns that are out on the grouse moors. Although a lot of them will be wealthy foreign oligarchs, not our natural sympathisers.

146962 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, 1, #507 of 1950 🔗

And the criminals, they still use firearms too.

146114 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 3, #508 of 1950 🔗

English Civil War analogy. The First Earl of Strafford, Charles I’s chief advisor and minister, was executed for treason by Parliamentary vote – his crime being supposedly to have advised Charles to bring in an army from Ireland to keep order in England.

In its essentials, that is what Johnson is advising. Off with his head.

146510 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 1, #509 of 1950 🔗

That’s a great essay.

145338 Awkward Git, 23, #510 of 1950 🔗

I think the true war has started today.

We’ve had the phoney war, the sitting round with nothing really happening stalemate bit while we stared at each other across no-man’s land or the Channel while girding our loins bit and now comes the fight back – like the start of the D-Day landings or the great offensive in WW1 that broke the stalemate.

Still a long way to go to victory but it’s like spring is in the air today.

The comments in the MSM are really heartening, maybe more people have realised what is going on after that nonsensical performance of the past 2 days with pitiless, soulless, unemotional automatons and the buffoon and his cohorts who seem totally incoherent at anything other than answering their names..

Pity it’s our own leaders that have betrayed us and we are at war with them and their collaborators and quislings.

Civil Wars are always the worst.

145344 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #511 of 1950 🔗

“Officials refuse release of Edinburgh City Council Covid-19 second wave documents”

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/officials-refuse-release-edinburgh-city-council-covid-19-second-wave-documents-2980171

“The council said it would not allow the reports to be released due to it potentially negatively impacting its ability to do its job.

“Documents detailing plans on how Edinburgh City Council will respond to a potential second wave of Covid-19 and the predicted impact of another lockdown have been kept secret by officials due to concern around their impact on the authority’s ability to do its job.

“Council officials refused to accept calls for transparency and to release reports and other documents outlining what impact a second wave of Covid-19 may have on the Capital and said the public should rely on elected councillors to scrutinise documents rather than be allowed to make up their own minds.

“The decision has lead to calls for increased transparency at the council from opposition councillors, and is the latest in a long list of refusals to release information in order to keep decision making and protect officials from public scrutiny.

“In its response to requests for documents including impact assessments and draft reports, the council said the release of such information would prejudice the effective conduct of public office.

“It added that concerns around the potential for media sensastionalisation and mixed messages being released to the public were also part of its decision.

“The council also pointed to its commitment to update councillors on “resilience planning” at a council meeting, a report which has been pushed back from late August to mid-October since the agreement to publish it in July.

“Conservative group chair, councillor Jason Rust said failure to release the information would beg the question whether they exist at all.

“He said: “It’s really important with public messages rightly adapting to changing circumstances that authorities are totally transparent.

“Failure to release plans will lead to concerns as to whether these are in place.

“Of course no one wants information sensationalised or distorted, but it must be in the public interest and good governance to provide plans and impact assessments.

“It is for the council to communicate adequately and manage that communication and for councillors to scrutinise, but residents should not be kept in the dark.”

“A council spokesman said: “The risk of a second wave is at the forefront of everybody’s minds and we want to reassure residents that we’re taking all appropriate steps to put contingency plans in place.

“We’ll be updating committee on our approach to resilience planning, including Covid-19, to the next Policy and Sustainability meeting on October 6.

“It’s really important that our plans are kept under constant review and adapted in line with national decisions so publishing a draft document wouldn’t be useful. We will of course continue to confirm and communicate any changes quickly and clearly, in order to continue to keep residents as informed and safe as..” the article continues at the link. Not the complete article above.

Edinburgh Council are setting the agenda for our city. They long ago turned rogue and forgot they are a service. The councillors have been sidelined across all councils, in the same way parliament has been sidelines so back benchers don’t know what is going on. Democratic representation is dead – that is part of our fight to restore representation. The cancer of common purpose is huge at edinburgh council.

145392 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Basics, 1, #512 of 1950 🔗

We are entering a new Dark Ages. The technocrats are the new Cardinals of The Vatican and the administrators are the new Priests holding the dogma on behalf of the congregation.

A new Inquisition won’t be far in the making.

Edinburgh City Council is run by and full of lead swingers and nipple bearers. Freemasons and Eastern Star for those who don’t know the buzzwords!

As they travel from East to West and meet on the square and go out on the level, the secrets will remain in the ivory box. Distress distress, for The Widow’s Sons!

145346 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 32, #513 of 1950 🔗

Just received a generic ‘Restrictions update’ from my MP, this is how I replied:

‘Dear Mr Moore,

Thank you for the update.

For the record, history will show that you and your government chose the wrong path with respect to Covid19 and that you have systematically destroyed the make up of our society. The national crisis has been caused by this inept government and its one track focus on a disease that by its own admission is mild for the majority of people, even those in the highest risk groups. Lives, business, education and the very fabric of our society has been lost due to the disproportionate reaction and fear and doom mongering generated by this government.

Any minister from any party supporting this ought to be ashamed of themselves. This is not how democracies work and this is not how a so called conservative government ought to function.

I will never, ever vote conservative after all this but then I will never vote for Labour either as they are complicit in going along with this self-inflicted crisis and their reaction would probably have been worse.

For what it’s worth, consider this email a vote of no confidence in your party, with the exception of some upstanding MPs like Philip Davies who are actually calling this power grab for what it really is, and a vote of no confidence in this inept government.

Regards,’

I am livid! Boris Johnson is now even saying that if you cough it could be the death knell for other people. This is DESPICABLE behaviour, I question his sanity and I am even more concerned for this country. People baulk at the idea of comparisons with Nazi Germany, but they were voted in by the majority on the basis of doing something for the common good, even the church went along with it. How different is this? Does anyone have a really good history book to recommend on the response of the German population (or any other population that has allowed such tyranny to creep in) to such things? It seems to me that the complacency that we’re seeing will only increase and it will only further marginalise those who can see what’s really going on here. There will be more persecution and resistance to non-mask wearers. Heading for a bad winter.

Someone please stop this muppet show (which insults even Kermit the Frog)!

Kevin

145350 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Moomin, 7, #514 of 1950 🔗

That complacency is othering me too. I’ve recently been phoning some friends/family and the basic response I hear is, “I’m ok, just getting on with things,” and no concern for the world around them.

145373 ▶▶▶ Mike, replying to Rosie, 7, #515 of 1950 🔗

Ditto. I have no idea what will break people out of there comfy slumber…
Unfortunately we are being sleep walked into disaster and as much as I blame the politicians I feel increasingly that its the people of this country who really are at fault (and not for the reasons Bozo has given).
Most people, friends and family included, really are asleep at the wheel.

145384 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mike, 4, #516 of 1950 🔗

The coming economic calamity will wake everyone up but by then it will be too late

145385 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Mike, 3, #517 of 1950 🔗

Yes, this is what totally frustrates me. When/if they finally do see I fear it will be too late.

145474 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mike, 8, #518 of 1950 🔗

The sheeple are asleep at the back of the bus while a psychopath dressed as a scary clown is at the wheel, driving above 60MPH on a winding mountain road.

145364 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Moomin, 18, #519 of 1950 🔗

Alarm bells start ringing when the mere natural act of existing, be it Jewish people being Jewish or all of us simply breathing and coughing, is deemed by someone with power and authority to be a threat to others.

145383 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to stewart, 2, #520 of 1950 🔗

Agreed.

145374 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Moomin, 2, #521 of 1950 🔗

Great stuff!

145389 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #522 of 1950 🔗

Thanks, I should have mentioned about how incensed I was by Johnson’s language. I can’t believe how people are putting up with this.

145479 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Moomin, 2, #523 of 1950 🔗

“Not I” by Joachim Fest is an account of how his father held out against the Nazi state – it was not easy.

145481 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Moomin, 6, #524 of 1950 🔗

The Nazis started to bring in laws forcing businesses to only sell to non-Jews and not to use Jweish businesses(Nicht Kaufen Beim Juden). They shut down Jewish businesses after they failed to pay high levies or implement their conditions of business.

In other words that only patrons of a certain type could partake and that the businesses would be punished if not complying to the law.

Sound familiar?

145352 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 35, #525 of 1950 🔗

Trying to get this message onto the contact No 10 website but it keeps giving me the message “submit valid message” so their site is not working properly.

Will send it to Boris by e-mail to his constituency office even if it does get me on the re-educaaion list:

“I cannot even bring myself to give you an honorific.

Your speech last night and your behaviour the past few weeks is increasingly erratic and has shown that you and your cohort’s restrictions are what can only be called nonsensical and do not follow any sort of science or data no matter what you claim.

The threats of using the British Army against the population of this country while blaming the people for everything sounds more and more like there ravings of Hitler in his bunker towards his last days as he lost his grip on reality as well.

The threat of military intervention is the final straw.

I do not take kindly to threats nor intimidation and you and your advisors and ministers have just perpetrated both on me, my family, my business, my friends, my acquaintances and the future generations yet to come.

So I say this to you – I will hold you to account eventually for the atrocities you have perpetrated on me and the genocide against the old that you are about to repeat.”

145371 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #526 of 1950 🔗

Brilliant!

145740 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, #527 of 1950 🔗

Your comparison with the Bunker is spot on.
Admire Churchill, ape Hitler. Your choice, Boris the Ape.

Hitler shot himself amidst the ruins of Berlin, and his corpse was incinerated in a back yard.
Churchill lived to a ripe old age, died honoured and respected, and sleeps in peace in his village church.

Bad choice, Boris the Ape.

145356 stewart, replying to stewart, 5, #528 of 1950 🔗

YouGov corona polls are extremely suspicious

145368 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to stewart, 1, #529 of 1950 🔗

Obviously!

145535 ▶▶ R G, replying to stewart, 6, #530 of 1950 🔗

I can quite readily believe them based on what I see when I go out. I live in a seaside town where retirees make up a decent chunk of the population and the fear in the shops is palpable. There’s a gentleman across from me who wears a mask to go into his front garden. When I speak to my older relatives, they agree on a logical level that lockdown is a load of bollocks yet support it anyway because of mild health conditions – “if I get it, I’m a goner”.

I don’t write this in a spirit of judgement, it’s what I see and hear around me where I live, and it makes it hard for me to see a way out of this that doesn’t involve a vaccine or economic destruction.

145544 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to R G, 1, #531 of 1950 🔗

That strikes me as a good observation about what is going on.

145605 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 1, #532 of 1950 🔗

Never trust YouGov – they have always been suspicious!

145794 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to stewart, 1, #533 of 1950 🔗

Their snap polls take no identifying information and don’t even stop you from answering twice. Then they claim to produce “weighted” results, despite the only information they have being your answer to the poll question. Given how quickly the pro-government numbers seem to go up immediately after the polls are published, my feeling is that government shills and people with a financial interest in the lockdown are drumming them up to allow the Government to claim they have public support. Meanwhile the more traditional polling asking about how the Public think the Government are handling matters is continuing to sink through the floor.

145359 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 14, #534 of 1950 🔗

I’ve been having some success countering the lies. I’ve not tried it on aggressive supporters of covid-fear, but on people who are slipping into acceptance it’s working rather well. As follows:
There is no material/significant change from a year ago. Then we had a range of diseases and of ways to lose our health including some flu/cold viruses, just as we do now. So there is no need for distancing or masks or restrictions or for anything to have changed – except for the importance of properly washing one’s hands.”
Said in a confident/determined low-pitched voice rather than a directly confrontational one.
Longer report to follow.

145556 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Rosie, 1, #535 of 1950 🔗

I agree with this.

The only question that matters is: “Was and is this actually a public health emergency?”

Even with the inflation of mortality figures due to the flexible definition of “Covid-19 Deaths”, the answer is: “No.”

If you don’t start by addressing this base question then all that follows is effectively an attempt to rationalise, as good or bad, out of nowhere, a completely incoherent series of events and choices.

145362 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 15, #536 of 1950 🔗

I’m afraid it is completely pointless trying to convert anyone. I put facts out there on social media and I argue the toss when people are being completely idiotic but I don’t try to convert anyone. People may come over to our side in time but the truth is they are as wedded to their beliefs as we are and the chief difference is we are going to be proved right and they aren’t because our opinions are rooted in rationality. We do need to recognise that they think they are being rational and we are the deranged ones. There is no dialogue; it’s way worse than the Brexit debate. If people show an interest in sceptical views or start to exhibit doubts about the official line then I will push at the open door but otherwise I am focussed on living my life my way, ignoring the rules as much as I can. Arguing with the cultists is too mentally and emotionally draining I’m afraid.

145367 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #537 of 1950 🔗

No point in arguing with cultists – but every point in stating a basic case to people who have not bothered to engage their brains.
And also every point in standing your ground firmly even with the cultists.

145452 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Rosie, 3, #538 of 1950 🔗

I think ‘cultists’ simplifies too much. People have been manipulated from the start, with few everyday alternative sources available.

145805 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Rosie, 1, #539 of 1950 🔗

Some of the cultists are not believers as such, but people with a vested interest in the situation. A Google search on Adam Hill, who has been shilling for the Government on the Telegraph comment trails since the start, turns up someone who works at Imperial College. Other people operate under handles, which makes them harder to track down, but I’ve no doubt the most aggressive cases are those who will benefit financially either by increased testing or a vaccine.

It is heartening to see on the Telegraph that some of those shills are now posting less frequently and getting called out as trolls when they do so.

145372 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #540 of 1950 🔗

Just tell them because of their acquiescence and timidness they have signed away their freedom and they will be wearing their masks forever, they have ruined life for their family for generations to come.

Fear is the real virus.

145457 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 1, #541 of 1950 🔗

Your last sentence is absolutely true. But that’s why ‘telling them’ doesn’t work – there has to be a counter-attack at a deeper level.

145504 ▶▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to RickH, 3, #542 of 1950 🔗

Yes: it brings to mind those immensely powerful words of FD Roosevelt in 1933: “So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is…fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.”

145395 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 10, #543 of 1950 🔗

Running counter to your resignation and hopefully, to give you hope to continue, take my wife. At the start of this she was very much in the “just get on with it” camp, trying to ameliorate my increasingly wild rantings and late night outbursts of indignation. Now she is very much in my camp and suffers the same outbursts i do (which is quite funny to watch from the other side now). However, my point, is that she has a very large friend base on FB and IG and has been very polite in getting the message out by ways of graphs and charts and facts and avoiding any “opinion” posts. She has had massive feedback from her followers that until she started posting these messages they hadn’t really thought about what was happening in the news, and her revealing some actual counter arguments against the incessant propaganda had really started a lot of them thinking for themselves.
I am sure she has turned many a friend from “just getting on with it” to active sceptic!

Keep going!

145483 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to tallandbald, 3, #544 of 1950 🔗

That’s a good counter-argument, albeit a small incidence.But it does happen – I agree. One particular situation is that some people are in rational conflict : they listen to what you say and don’t actually disbelieve it – but it runs up against the social instinct to essentially trust the basic framework of institutions that shape our lives (not to be mistaken for naivety). Being good souls themselves, they find it hard to accept the evil that is abroad.

Often this tension is what lies behind the family rows and outbursts that are mentioned. A lot of individuals find it horrifying (as it is) to accept that they are being lied to and deliberately manipulated – that the whole fabric of a democratic society has become an illusion.

Many become really quite depressed by this conflict, I think.

I have seen a moment of change when the conflict is resolved by acceptance that the public narrative is a false one, and that the counter-evidenc is what makes sense.

But we have to recognise that the journey is an emotional one – like recognising that your parents are flawed – and not just a case of rational debate.

145529 ▶▶▶▶ tallandbald, replying to RickH, 3, #545 of 1950 🔗

I keep telling my wife, when she complains at me about “why don’t they just see it” is that her, ours and any other sceptics arguments threaten their reality paradigm. They can’t compute that their “trusted government” would do this to them so they attack any point of view that runs counter to their world view. It doesn’t compute with them.
I tell her to bide her time and the critical mass threshold for them will be reached at some point where they have to take the sceptic view because their original view will seem so ridiculous to the amount of incontrovertible evidence all around them.
Then she can do the “told you so” dance.

145801 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to tallandbald, #546 of 1950 🔗

There’s also a big dose of cognitive dissonance. It doesn’t fit people’s self-image to think they’ve been duped so they have to convince themselves they are right.

Ultimately, it requires something to increase their desire to believe the alternative. As the Government tightens the thumbscrews this triggers some to re-evaluate and they shift from to a position that it wasn’t that they were stupid, but that the manipulation was total and that nobody else saw through it.

I’ve seen a few of those around – people who are now anti-lockdown but who get angry at anyone who claims to have been so all along.

146230 ▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to tallandbald, #547 of 1950 🔗

People go mad collectively and become sane individually, a quote by whom ?

145825 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #548 of 1950 🔗

Being good souls themselves, they find it hard to accept the evil that is abroad.

This is the crux.

They’ve got to being as harmless as doves, without the wisdom of serpents.

145506 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to tallandbald, #549 of 1950 🔗

Me and my wife too! Bless her!

145423 ▶▶ Basics, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #550 of 1950 🔗

Thanks for your dispairing comment. You’ve raised a good point and one I have long experience of from friends having the same frustrating experience as you.

Bottom line is you cannot convince anyone of anything.

Convincing anyone of anything is not easy, nor does it ever work. People need to come to their own conculsions. So it isn’t worth the emontional effort and time trying to convince anyone.

Go about standing proud in yourself respectful of friends and neughbours but popping a seed here a comment about your own practices there.

Time is the only thing that causes people to realise. Patience and not giving people reason to revert away from sceptical thoughts, calling them ‘bedwetters’ for example.

A comment once a week or longer is all it sometimes takes – people wake up in their own time.

The government use covert manipulation because they know convincing people is not possible.

145428 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Basics, 2, #551 of 1950 🔗

Manipulation – I’ve covered the topic here and recently updated the page as well.
https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/psychological-manipulation

145833 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #552 of 1950 🔗

Yup.

145449 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #553 of 1950 🔗

I’m afraid it is completely pointless trying to convert anyone”

I’m not sure that is completely true. I have had some success over a period of time with members of the wider family, by strategically giving them a selection of good information.

But this has not been ‘conversion’ from an antagonistic position – truth told, it has been more a case of rational people with doubts about the narrative finally being won over by the balance of evidence. Starting from scratch with someone scared out of their wits is something different, and it is not something that happens quickly.

The Big Con works on the principle that many people want to believe Big Brother as a safe pair of arms – and I have seen sheer denial that those arms actually strangle when I have shown incontrovertible evidence – such as the clarity of the gompertz curve of deaths.

It’s interesting that, given the quotidian widespread alleged scepticism about politics, politicians, media and journalists that this subservient willingness to believe dominates.

But it does. The price of Fear.

I shall keep plugging away on an opportunity basis – but, like you, I’m not hopeful.

145746 ▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #554 of 1950 🔗

YES, WE ARE RIGHT.
STICK WITH THAT, AND TO HELL WITH THE ZOMBIES.

145365 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 11, #555 of 1950 🔗

Fellow Sceptics

I have emailed Toby for his opinion but thought I’d run this by you all.

There is a lot of frustration here and I wondered if we should be using the group membership/readers to start our own leaflet campaign? Start our own fightback.

If we had a well designed leaflet in high resolution to download, everyone here could get it printed online or at a local copyshop and start distributing them locally. A few thousand of us doing this around the country could help the cause and be a positive contribution from us.It would only cost a few pounds each and we could leaflet a lot of properties between us. It also gets around social media censorship.

Why not harness the site’s ‘manpower’?

I’m no designer but have come up with the leaflet in the link below. Maybe there is a professional designer here who could do better?

I think that professor Woolthorpe’s comments were some of the strongest to quote which is why I have used them.

Thoughts on the listed websites to reference(can’t have too many though)?

Needs to be a simple message IMHO. Most leaflets I’ve seen are too complex.
Is this worth having a go at?

Any suggestions on content gratefully receive. Would you be up for it? Over to you guys for thoughts.If you think it’s a crap idea that’s fine too.

My first stab at this can be found here (not full size)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-bN6Q_x0VDXrMmYyV5VjfVs9Lmc5HLHF/view

145390 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #556 of 1950 🔗

That’s excellent as it stands. Also have you checked out ‘Keep Britain Free’?
It’s exactly the sort of thing that anti-lockdown protests need, to keep them on topic and focussed.
You are absolutely right about the need to keep it simple.

145400 ▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Rosie, 3, #557 of 1950 🔗

Yep I’ve sent it to Toby, but I’m not a graphic designer. Just trying to get a feel to see if there are enough people who would get involved. It’s easy to ‘spout off’ on here but we need to all leaflet a 1000 houses each. Then we’d actually be doing something other than just ‘talking’.

145405 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Schrodinger, #558 of 1950 🔗

Try Keep Britain Free.
It’s frustrating, I know, to be aware that others can do something better, but often we end up having to make the best of our own skills. But judging by that you are a natural. Would you consider a training course?
Also, would you consider doing something/s along those lines for me? My site is https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/ contact me through it?

145409 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #559 of 1950 🔗

I absolutely agree. I will look at your link and get back to you later.

I want to do a midnight telegraph pole poster campaign in my village.

I’ve been a bit stuffed recently due to work and only just getting my child back to school after 6 months, so I’ll happily input when I can 😊

145436 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #560 of 1950 🔗

I like it. Well done. I could see that as a series/campaign. Get the head shots of gupta and quote from her and Heneghan and quote from him.

Here’s some further thoughts…

Could add something about encouraging people to question what they read in MSM and what govt says, to think if what they’re being told told is true.
Acknowledge/empathise that it’s hard to do and here are a few sites that may help to provide analysis on the situation. List out sites.

Could also add stats about waiting lists or health consequences of lockdown. How’s many jobs lost to date.

Really good, it doesn’t feel great when you take action doesn’t it it.

CM

145458 ▶▶▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Country Mumkin, #561 of 1950 🔗

I have seen some leaflets like that but the more you add in to them the less people are inclined to read them IMHO. Hence the dramatic statement from a respected scientist, links to just a couple of good websites and easy to watch videos and then the ‘threat to the reader’s own job’. My opinion is that you have to find a ‘chink’ to get through their armour. Loads of ‘guff’ and they will just turn off.

145577 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Schrodinger, #562 of 1950 🔗

Great, but suggest you export it to .pdf for better quality.

145599 ▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Basileus, #563 of 1950 🔗

As I said this is just low res

145609 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Schrodinger, #564 of 1950 🔗

Good leaflet as it adheres to effective communication – K.I.S.S – Keep it straight and simple.

145814 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Schrodinger, #565 of 1950 🔗

I’ve heard tell on Facebook of some leaflets doing the rounds, but as you say they are generally too dense to engage interest. The only problem I’d say with yours is that it gives the impression that your entire case hangs on the one source.

146349 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Schrodinger, #566 of 1950 🔗

They have started something like that in Germany, leaflets are available via Telegram.
But I prefer a leaflet which already states the facts and does not require the recipient to go to a website or to youtube. Only someone already inclined will do that. A total bedwetter needs to see a short text with hard fact and numbers.

145366 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 9, #567 of 1950 🔗

I’m not quite sure what to make of this from Carl Heneghan (the Telegraph live feed):

A move towards Sweden

Professor Carl Heneghan, director of the University of Oxford’s Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine has been on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

On Sunday evening, he had a meeting with the Prime Minister and advised Boris Johnson on the next steps to take.

“I think there is a shift in policy emerging here,” said Prof Heneghan.

“We are starting to understand that we are trying to control the spread of the infection as opposed to suppress it.

“What we are starting to see is a move towards Sweden. So for instance, when you look at bars and restaurants, that’s the policy there – they have table service.

“So what I’m hoping we now start to see is a more coherent consistent policy, one that stays in place. So we don’t keep seeing the almost daily changes which become utterly confusing for the public.”

Sweden has gone from having one of the highest coronavirus infection rates in Europe, to one of the lowest

“We still don’t understand what social distancing means – which is an incredibly important component of this. And half of people don’t know what the symptoms are that they’re looking out for.

“So if you don’t have this clear message right through the winter, you will have confusion reign and you’ll lose the trust of people and that is the most important issue right now – consistency.”

“We have a mantra of fear, with enforcement and fines, but if you look at Sweden they are much more supportive, trying to bring people with them.

“If you test positive, you get two weeks full pay to stay at home.

“There will be an inevitable rise in cases now as we go into winter. The key is not to panic. You’ve got to let some of these measures work, and they will take a few weeks to come through, and you have to reinforce the messaging.

“If at every point there is an uptick in cases and we panic with more measures, we will talk ourselves back into a lockdown, which as a whole society is hugely disruptive.

“On Sunday night we had a significant meeting, setting out some of the viewpoints about how you deal with the issues. Our job is to control the strategy.”

145403 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Tenchy, 10, #568 of 1950 🔗

If you watch him on sci tech cttee last Thurs and Sunday with Sophy on Sky last Sunday, you see someone with balance and real understanding of how to get on the PM’s side.

He even said at one point it’s too early in the winter for draconian measures. (Whereas all of us think no measures at all but the reality is the govt will never do that)

He sounds like a really good terrorist negotiator! I trust his judgement, his stats and now he had a meeting with Boris, I trust his approach. If he can “control the strategy”, this man is beyond a genius.

145448 ▶▶▶ Dan72, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #569 of 1950 🔗

This is probably the way forward. I don’t see how we can get a nation of bedwetters to see the light unless it is in small incremental steps. For example, I may be against the notion of table service only in pubs, but if that meant the rest of the ineffective/ridiculous guidelines, such as one way arrows, mandatory hand sanitiser, no loud music etc, can be done away with, then I can probably live with that for now.

145496 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Dan72, #570 of 1950 🔗

Small incremental steps is def great idea.

I think the more we forcibly push in the opposite direction, the more it strengthens their defence of their position.

145375 Ross Hendry, replying to Ross Hendry, 1, #571 of 1950 🔗

Somewhat prophetic movie:

“In ‘V for Vendetta’, a lot has gone wrong very quickly, and it doesn’t seem like there’s much to be done about it. The film is set in the late 2020s, and London is now under the authoritarian rule of the fascist High Chancellor Sutler (John Hurt), the leader of the extremely Nazi-looking Norsefire party.

The parallels to real-world 2020 are alarming: the “St. Mary’s virus” has unleashed a pandemic on the world, crippling the United States (which doesn’t really factor into the film’s London-centric plot) and sending it on a path to economic ruination and civil war. The Norsefire party, which rode in on a wave of neoconservative support, locks up gay citizens, anyone who practices a religion other than the state-sanctioned church, and is supported by state-run media. Surveillance is almost casual, with government vans regularly sweeping the streets to listen in on citizens.

This is the world in which we meet Evey Hammond (Natalie Portman), an unassuming employee of the British Television Network. One night, she is threatened with sexual assault by secret police and is subsequently saved by V (Hugo Weaving), a superhuman terrorist in a Guy Fawkes mask. Like Guy Fawkes, V has a plan to blow up Parliament and assassinate several members of the government responsible for the Norsefire takeover and, it’s revealed, his own creation. The film ends before we find out if he’s successful, but not before the citizens of London are inspired to also don his mask and take to the streets”. ( https://www.theverge.com/21349606/v-for-vendetta-movie-yesterdays-future-present )

Trailer: www dot youtube dot com/watch?v=qxyUl9M_7vc

145378 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Ross Hendry, 2, #572 of 1950 🔗

Is the film a warning to us, or is it for softening us up to acceptance?

145381 ▶▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to Rosie, #573 of 1950 🔗

Good question…

145450 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Rosie, 3, #574 of 1950 🔗

I suspect a large part of Hollywood and the media is in fact predictive programming. Social Engineering for the masses.

145459 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Darryl, 1, #575 of 1950 🔗

Yip

and the masses suffering from stockholm syndrome to boot

145454 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Rosie, 1, #576 of 1950 🔗
145387 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Ross Hendry, 3, #577 of 1950 🔗

So a documentary of sorts…Joking aside, one of my favorite movies that I watch every Year on the 5ht of November..Best quote from the movie : ” People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people”

145445 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Ross Hendry, 5, #578 of 1950 🔗

What is quite nauseating is that the stars of the film Natalie Portman and Stephen Fry are both passionate virtue signalling pro-maskers and pro-lockdown. Neither seems very interested in protecting civil rights or liberties in real life (unless of course it is for an establishment backed cause such as Black Lives Mater or overthrowing the Belarus Government).

Seriously how can we criticise other countries for being dictatorships when we have had a government which has ruled by decree for 6 months and is just about to put the military on the street for at least 6 months. Plus wants laws to detain people indefinitely against their will at unknown locations for ‘health reasons’.

145485 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Darryl, 2, #579 of 1950 🔗

hmmmm why are they busy overthrowing the Belarus gov?

Is it because they dared to defy the economic hitman?

(alexander johnson certainly didn’t)

145484 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Ross Hendry, #580 of 1950 🔗

In turn, the only movie that can give an indication of them still acting in good faith and pursuing the national interest is ‘Deep Impact’.
Anything else wouldn’t justify their deeds.

145499 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Ross Hendry, #581 of 1950 🔗

fundamental difference.. the “Norsefire Party is neo conservative. locks up gays and people following other religions” whereas this government is so woke that is supports everyone that is anti UK and of course it is not conservative

145520 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ross Hendry, #582 of 1950 🔗

V for Vendetta was a graphic novel by Alan Moore originally. I read it at the time and thought it was amazing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_for_Vendetta

145382 Olive, replying to Olive, 23, #583 of 1950 🔗

Draconian measures will always undermine liberty. But there is scant evidence that they have made us safer ” – Dominic Raab writing in his book ‘The Assault on Liberty’ (2009).
Read this book – and weep for someone who has written this and can then go on radio stations all morning ignoring every conclusion in it.

145401 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Olive, 9, #584 of 1950 🔗

Suggest you write and remind him of what he said. Quoting some-one’s own words back at them can be a powerful strategy.

145408 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Olive, 5, #585 of 1950 🔗

Oh excellent – can we have that quote reference on all further correspondence to MPs, etc

145414 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Olive, 3, #586 of 1950 🔗

The epitome of two-facedness.

145516 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Olive, 2, #587 of 1950 🔗

@dominicraab is his Twitter account. Can I suggest that all readers of this post that have a Twitter account post this quote to him.

145571 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #588 of 1950 🔗

Done. Quick win.

145845 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #589 of 1950 🔗

Just did!

145388 Jon G, replying to Jon G, 4, #590 of 1950 🔗

All this complicated talk of FPR, but still no one’s explaining why a test with something like a 1% FPR (depending on who you listen to) is returning a positive rate in most of the UK of <0.02% across a sample size of millions of tests.

Indeed unless I’m missing something nowhere in the UK has a positive rate anywhere near 1%. And there must be at least some Covid so the FPR must be even less in most places than the <0.02%.

Are they adjusting for the FPR? Could somebody ask them? Am I missing something? Does this render all talk of FPR essentially meaningless?

It’s a stupid governmental and societal response to Covid but we in the sceptic community need to be honest with ourselves too, in order that our arguments carry the most possible weight.

145406 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Jon G, 1, #591 of 1950 🔗

Yes – we need someone who knows to explain this stuff in real simpleton terms so that I can understand it.
I thought i had it until listening prof Sp…alter this morning (he said he was the prof who advised Thingy HB from talkradio

145415 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Jon G, 1, #592 of 1950 🔗

This is a good point and one that has been puzzling me. The ONS survey shows total positive rates of the order of 0.08% so as you say the FPR must be less than that. Their methodology guide says

Test specificity measures how often the test correctly identifies those who do not have the virus, so a test with high specificity will not have many false-positive results. We know the specificity of our test must be very close to 100% as the low number of positive tests in our study means that specificity would be very high even if all positives were false. For example, in the most recent six week period (31 July to 10 September), 159 of the 208,730 total samples tested positive. Even if all these positives were false, specificity would still be 99.92%. We know that the virus is still circulating, so it is extremely unlikely that all these positives are false. However, it is important to consider whether many of the small number of positive tests we do have might be false. There are a couple of main reasons we do not think that is the case.

They then go on to discuss those reasons. In short, they calibrate by following up the positive tests to see who has or develops symptoms.

So the ONS tests are much more specific (lower FPR) than the mass testing programme. I have yet to find any published explanation for that.

145460 ▶▶▶ PFD, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #593 of 1950 🔗

One aspect missing from this methodology guide is any description of the RT-PCR method used. For example what is the cycle threshold. I’m assuming that there is a strict control on the threshold employed in the ONS survey. This doesn’t seem to be the case with pillar 2 testing where QA procedures are poorly constrained. One imagines that the FPR is a very sensitive function of the cycle threshold/amplification factor.

145689 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Richard Pinch, #594 of 1950 🔗

Thanks for this. Literature on the mass testing methodology will be fascinating.

145446 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Jon G, #595 of 1950 🔗

One problem is that the FPR would be a median or average of calibration. So in one sample of 1000 it produces 2 positives, in another 20. You look at the distributions and make a judgement. There are many reasons why this could be the case because the process is multistage from obtaining the sample to performing the test. Also the level of the lab counts as the lab needs to be commissioned against standards for testing which may differ.

What typically happens with a measurement process is that the stated accuracy determines whether you use it in the first place, rather than trying to guess results.

We shouldn’t be testing people as it gives false information, which is being used to drive policy.

To get an actual false positive rate you would need to have a subject group with no virus, or a level of virus that is considered below the threshold (Ct is important). Then you can calibrate your testing.

This isn’t happening. There’s a chicken and egg situation going on where the number of positives from testing is being used to guess prevalence.

145561 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to mhcp, 1, #596 of 1950 🔗

We also need reassurance that all of the PCR testing procedures have been standardised and validated. I believe that even the hospital labs haven’t a standard protocol? Is that correct?
In which case how can we or anyone be entirely sure they are accurate?

145393 court, replying to court, 14, #597 of 1950 🔗

I feel better now I’ve emailed my Tory MP. I dont want answers, I just told him that his complicity in this means him and his party will never, ever get my vote again.

145635 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to court, #598 of 1950 🔗

Same here, not that he got my vote anyway as a soon-to-be-former member of the Labour Party.
Credit where credit is due, he DID at least show up on my doorstep – alone – during the election campaign. I gave him short shrift of course, but hey, he made the effort.
Like I said before, everyone really needs to do this – the powers that be need to know we’re not 100% stupid and brainwashed!!!

145396 Tommo, replying to Tommo, 24, #599 of 1950 🔗

One of the biggest ironies about this entire fiasco is the measures since March – stay at home, save lives etc, has led to huge levels of physical inactivity. We all know that heart disease is a major killer in the UK – and everywhere else. And one of the best preventative measures for heart disease is being physically active. So encouraging / forcing the population to be inactive is going to create a lot more problems going forwards. I’m a sports coach by living, and whilst I am personally doing my best to keep our sports club open, we have to restrict numbers to abide by the rules. Less people have the opportunity to play at our club, and of course many are still too scared to come out. Where is the govt modelling on the levels of heart disease caused by prolonged periods of inactivity?

145416 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Tommo, 12, #600 of 1950 🔗

Well said! I dread to think what lockdown has knocked off our average life expectancy. The stress is toxic, loss of Vitamin D, loss of fun and social interactions, loss of hugs and love, they all undermine health. This is so well understood for such a long time that the question arises yet again – are they deliberately making us frail and fragile and ill?

145553 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Rosie, 1, #601 of 1950 🔗

In a word….Yes

145477 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tommo, 4, #602 of 1950 🔗

Corona bellies all around me.
This won’t end well.

145492 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to Tommo, 4, #603 of 1950 🔗

Good points. But the best activity to avoid health problems is walking. Preferably with some inclines but a good half hour brisk walk each day works wonders. I am so pleased that Ramblers are allowed 30 on Group walks. They have not banned or restricted walking – yet.

145399 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 7, #604 of 1950 🔗

Boris’s next moves to prevent a second wave.

-Boris Attack- like the cook report but with a more slapstick approach
-Arm wrestling with Chas and Dave
-Cooking in prison
-Youth Hostelling with Chris Eubank

If these measures fail then it’s monkey tennis time.

145628 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Hubes, 1, #605 of 1950 🔗

LOL @ ‘Arm wrestling with Chas and Dave’, or as they’re known these days, ‘Dave’!

145404 Moomin, 24, #606 of 1950 🔗

And I’ve just sent this to Graham Brady:

Dear Sir,

Briefly, please do all that you can to rein in the Prime Minister and his cabinet.

Threats of using the army, increasing fines, admonishing/blaming people for not obeying rules when those rules and advice shift from day-to-day, suggesting that coughing could be the death knell for someone, etc., etc., are all characteristics of authoritarian rule.

If something is not done now it will be too late.

In desperation,
Kevin Moore

145558 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, 2, #608 of 1950 🔗

The fruit of decades of indoctrination. The disgraceful BBC and Guardian behaviour over the coronapanic is by no means new. They’ve just changed the topic.

145410 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 18, #609 of 1950 🔗

Dr Laurence Buckman on Talk Radio:

“We should be a little less precious about liberty”
“You have no right to give me an illness”

Former chairman BMA.

New pet hate.

145422 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 21, #610 of 1950 🔗

well if he doesn’t want ‘an illness’ then he is at liberty to isolate from the rest of us – but he has no right to selfishly interfere with our liberty because he is worried about himself

145433 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Major Panic, 7, #611 of 1950 🔗

Yes, this is the sane balance that people who identified as liberals used to understand.

145502 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Ovis, 2, #612 of 1950 🔗

Indeed. This is a huge battleground – probably key. Two ways of thinking about risk vs. the value of liberty. Prior to now, most people didn’t think about this much and in general it was fairly live and let live. The allegedly deadly nature of sars-cov-2 has made it a thing, and sadly many have chosen the side of repression. I expect people will say it should apply to flu as well.

145434 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Sarigan, 8, #613 of 1950 🔗

And then what happens when the response is, “And you have no right to lock me away at home, or decide who I interact with”? A fight?

145447 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Sarigan, 12, #614 of 1950 🔗

“You have no right to give me an illness”

If I don’t then basically I have no right to live, because exchanging micro organisms isn’t just a right, it is essential to life.

We are doomed as a species. And not because of climate change but because we are increasingly being run by people who seem to have lost their humanity.

145471 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sarigan, 11, #615 of 1950 🔗

Is he aware that it is liberty that enables him to earn such a huge amount as a GP, it’s liberty that enables a woman to gain the same qualifications as him and it’s liberty that enables him to even air his statement? Just goes to show how stupid the most intelligent people can be.

145490 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sarigan, 12, #616 of 1950 🔗

It’s not about having a right to give someone an illness, is it. We’ve all been giving each other illnesses since humanity evolved. If you take that line then it’s permanent isolation for all humans until the end of time, just in case you pass something on to someone vulnerable. Why is it only Covid that you’re not allowed to pass on?

145585 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to Sarigan, 9, #617 of 1950 🔗

““You have no right to give me an illness””
Correct. Similarly you have no right to restrict my movements and well being because you are frightened your immune system cannot handle an illness.
Since you are the one that is frightened, you are the one that should restrict your movements, not me.
It’s way past time that those who are hysterical stopped being the ones dictating terms.

145625 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Sarigan, 4, #618 of 1950 🔗

My freedom doesn’t end where your neurosis begins!

145831 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sarigan, 3, #619 of 1950 🔗

I don’t ‘give’ out my bugs, you ‘catch’ them from me. It’s not a question of ‘rights’ when there is another organism in the mix.

145413 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #620 of 1950 🔗

Aaaahhhh….the good old Covid-iots word.
This story boils my piss. Yes it’s a shame the man died, but…if you read the story, he had UNDERLYING health issues.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/heartbroken-widow-begs-covid-iots-22724631

145431 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #621 of 1950 🔗

Of course very sad he died but could he have been confusing symptoms with his pernicious anemia?

Common symptoms include:

  • fatigue
  • weakness
  • headaches
  • chest pain
  • weight loss
  • pale skin

It is also considered an autoimmune condition. Many people with pernicious anemia require lifelong treatment and monitoring.

Possible lack of access to treatment and monitoring could be a factor?

https://www.healthline.com/health/pernicious-anemia

145462 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sarigan, 1, #622 of 1950 🔗

More importantly, was he receiving PA treatment, i e b12 injections or had they been stopped.

145478 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, 1, #623 of 1950 🔗

according to wikipedia shortness of breath is also a symptom. And the report said he also suffered from asthma.

145438 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #624 of 1950 🔗

Although sad, he was also put on a ventilator, which is now known to be the worst treatment for CoViD19.

145579 ▶▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to p02099003, 2, #625 of 1950 🔗

.

145418 Suzyv, replying to Suzyv, #626 of 1950 🔗

Apology if already posted. Something else that can be done. Crucial to Email your MP about the review of Coronavirus Legislation that is coming up in exactly one week’s time.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1308671688012423169

145456 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Suzyv, 5, #627 of 1950 🔗

As per Peter Hitchens advice, threaten politely to not vote for them. Perhaps a better tactic than telling them you will never vote for them again.

145491 ▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Suzyv, 4, #628 of 1950 🔗

Done this yesterday, unfortunately my local MP is a fat lefty Labour stooge who is more interested in BLM than he is in authoritarians taking over our country. I don’t hold out much hope!

145437 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 7, #629 of 1950 🔗

Terror attacks in the streets, tens of thousands of children raped, and what does the government do? Twitter police, to ensure that the perpetrators of these atrocities don’t get insulted.
People want to go out for a pint and what does the government do? Bring in the Amy! Oi, do you have a loicence for that pint?

145530 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #630 of 1950 🔗

Don’t succumb to other Fear memes. – it’s this culture of hysteria that is at the root of all this.

145555 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 8, #631 of 1950 🔗

No, it’s the suppression of legitimate dissent on issues such as mass immigration via hysterical accusations of “racism” and “hate speech” that leaves people with no alternative to believing the worst, because they are not allowed to hear free and honest discussion. You know this is true in the case of the coronapanic, and it was true while we were being manipulated and propagandised for decades on political correctness issues, you just approved of the manipulation then because you agreed with it. But suddenly it affects an issue you are concerned about so it’s a big issue for you..

The real fear hysteria campaign was the twisting of “racism” and other -isms from what they are (dissent), into fantasy constructs of pure evil. That’s how so many were indoctrinated into the position they are in today, where they uncritically believe all the BLM and other “woke” bullshit.

As usual you attack the victims when they respond in the only way left to them because you have shut down legitimate routes.

145581 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to RickH, 2, #632 of 1950 🔗

I’m sorry, but victims of terror attacks and tens of thousands of abused and groomed children are not “fear memes”. How can you even believe that?

145443 stewart, replying to stewart, 74, #633 of 1950 🔗

JHB’s interview with Raab has been a total revelation.

  • JHB asked Raab how many healthy under 70s had died since Feb from covid.
  • Raab was unable to even offer a ball park figure. He had literally no clue.
  • When JHB told him it was just a little over 300 Raab was clearly stunned. It took him a couple of seconds to gather himself and respond.
  • Raab is a senior member of the cabinet.

What this reveals clearly is that the government doesn’t even have the most basic grasp of what they are dealing with.

This virus is the primary issue of the moment and the people making decisions, huge decisions affecting millions of lives, have absolutely no understanding of the basic numbers. They seem to be making decisions based on narratives provided to them by their boffins Whitty and Valance without even trying to get their heads around the numbers.

This isn’t a conspiracy, this is incompetence on a colossal scale.

145451 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to stewart, 21, #634 of 1950 🔗

Raab is turning nasty. He’s a leading ‘enforcer’. Standard resort of somebody becoming frighteningly aware that he’s out of his depth and hittng out at anybody he thinks has recognised this.

145464 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #635 of 1950 🔗

Yes, classic egotist.

145551 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #636 of 1950 🔗

I’ve been struck by his physical resemblance to Rt Hon Alan B’Stard MP.

145455 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to stewart, 16, #637 of 1950 🔗

It’s worse than that. They’re still working from the original Ferguson model.

145463 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Achilles, 8, #638 of 1950 🔗

and probably agree with the survey where the people thought that 7% of the population had died of covid.

146367 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Achilles, 1, #639 of 1950 🔗

Ferguson’s Imperial College receives oodles of cash from Bill Gates, as does the BBC, Guardian and the Telegraph. There are many other recipients of Gates’s bounty and their musings on the Covid-19 cannot be trusted.

145461 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stewart, 19, #640 of 1950 🔗

Strike me that Raab isn’t the sort of man to enjoying looking like a total twat infront of the public. The interview will be memorable to him on that basis if no other. What the hole in his breifing exposes is how small the cabal of control is. Shapps equally clueless – these are so called senior ministers flailing about in woeful ignorance – it is their job to know these things.

145473 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Basics, 5, #641 of 1950 🔗

His second Dover moment…

145465 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to stewart, 9, #642 of 1950 🔗

The silence between JHB telling him the number and his saying something was shocking.

145503 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #643 of 1950 🔗

I agree. He clearly had no idea the number was that low.

145514 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Jenny, 4, #644 of 1950 🔗

Here is the clip, starting at the question.
Spread it.

https://youtu.be/PSlfY3QvFJA?t=777

145493 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to stewart, 12, #645 of 1950 🔗

This isn’t a conspiracy, this is incompetence on a colossal scale.

LOL !

If you believe that .

145776 ▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to 2 pence, 3, #646 of 1950 🔗

If it were only this country with the lunatics that govern then quite possible. But every country? They are not all quite as loony as us.Then it can only be a conspiracy.

145495 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to stewart, 7, #647 of 1950 🔗

In fairness, he didn’t understand the importance of Dover to food supplies so it is hardly a surprise that he was caught on the hop.

145497 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to stewart, 12, #648 of 1950 🔗

It’s a combination of global conspiracy driven by the super-wealthy/powerful, and principles-free corruption, and incompetence. You need all three elements in combination to explain what we witness.

145528 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Rosie, 5, #649 of 1950 🔗

Agree, Rosie. If Cabinet is incompetent and in dereliction of duty it is all too easy for it to be captured – it has been by a group of scientists and political agents whose interests are not aligned with the wider interests of the UK and its citizens.

145543 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Rosie, 7, #650 of 1950 🔗

In a really well run conspiracy, those lower down the chain, (our leading politicians and decision makers) would not be told the whole story by their elite handlers.
They would only be told as much as they needed to know. And it would be a step by step progression. So, at the outset, our leaders will willingly comply, and then much further on, once they have realised what they have been led into, it will be impossible for them to pull out. They will be too deeply compromised.

This is a basic CIA tactic.

I have watched this occur already in this crisis. You can see by people’s behaviour, they initially believed a lot of what they said. Now signs of coercion are showing and some (like Whitty) look as if they would rather be 100 miles away.
Boris knows a lot more now than he did five months ago, but perhaps even he does not know the whole plan.

I have even wondered whether this “crisis” was initially presented as a biosecurity threat and a leak from the Chinese lab, necessitating emergency measures of our governments. That would ensure eager initial compliance
.
Later on it becomes apparent that there will be no quick resolution, but further tasks required to placate their masters….

Probably once they have served their purpose, our leaders will be brutally discarded by their handlers (not rewarded as they hope) and left to face the population.

145517 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to stewart, 12, #651 of 1950 🔗

It is absolutely clear, from both this interview and that with Grant Shapps, that the Cabinet (and remember, Raab is the de facto deputy PM) has no idea whatsoever about the basic data and statistics. It has not been presented to them and/or they did not understand what was being presented to them. You cannot make policy if you do not understand that only 307 people under age 60, with no co-morbidities have died, or that 90% of those testing positive at the moment could all be false positives. Shapps and Raab are not evil men, and Raab is certainly not stupid. This is Maladministration and extreme dereliction of duty.

145522 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #652 of 1950 🔗

Raab is certainly not stupid”

That I do question!

145536 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to RickH, 7, #653 of 1950 🔗

They all have intellectual capacity but they totally lack common sense and real life experience. Never has the phrase ‘westminster bubble’ been so appropriate.

145594 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 4, #654 of 1950 🔗

Sit him in an exam he’ll beat me hands down. I’ll skin him alive over meeting responsibilities…we have CHOSEN to accept.

145613 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to stewart, 6, #655 of 1950 🔗

Listened to the whole interview. Raab is well-briefed on the official line (as is Hancock). The problem is that they seem to be bringing no independent judgement to the whole thing. They are doing what ministers do. Stick to the official line. This is how they learn to handle the media.

145780 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stewart, 4, #656 of 1950 🔗

The truth may be a lot more mundane than a nice juicy conspiracy theory, but the end result is every bit as dangerous.

145836 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to stewart, 2, #657 of 1950 🔗

I cannot offer much except this – and I have struggled with it for months now – the reason or cause of this situation we find ourselves in imo, is either, incompetence, vaccines, brexit/Trump or financial collapse.

Disregard all hypotheses that make no sense and what is left has to be the truth.

146075 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to stewart, 2, #658 of 1950 🔗

there is an outbreak of innumeracy throughout the nation and it seems to infected government most of all.

146350 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to stewart, #659 of 1950 🔗

There is very likely a conspiracy, but only a select few will be in on it. Need to know and all that. But in any event Raab is clearly a pillock.

145467 Will, replying to Will, 3, #660 of 1950 🔗

Does anyone know when the Danish RCT on mask wearing is due to be published?

145570 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Will, 1, #661 of 1950 🔗

This might not be published at all.I think there is a statistical problem as numbers are too few ie the C-19 cases in Denmark were too few in March/April to say any meaningful view.Interesting that the head researcher said that he hoped that the Danish gov would not mandte masks. However that was not a hint about the conclusion of the RCT unfortunately but there is this statistical problem you can not solve with too few numbers.

145482 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #662 of 1950 🔗

I didn’t listen to or watch any of the dictatorial addresses yesterday, for reasons of mental health protection.

Did Sturgeon give any indication as to how long the ban on visiting other households will last? Is it 6 months like all the English restrictions? If so, how are the Scottish people taking it? Will they really accept not seeing friends and family all winter, including Christmas? Or is she going for the 2-week “circuit breaker” tactic? I’m not in Scotland, but feel for any Scots on here terribly, and as we all know anyway, where Sturgeon leads Johnson follows so I’m sure this will be coming for us in England soon too.

145488 ▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #663 of 1950 🔗

3 week review was mentioned as was 6 months. Also a little mention of somewhere over the rainbow was woven into the fabric of her spout.

145540 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Basics, #664 of 1950 🔗

No doubt she’ll be hailed a hero for ‘relaxing’ the restrictions just in time for Christmas. Just a tiny bit of course. Then it’s lockdown all the way to May’s elections.

145501 ▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #665 of 1950 🔗

Circuit breaker over half term for nation was haleakedha really? By SG to press prior to the weasel speaking yesterdat. Sturgeon civered the issue by saying there has been talk in the press about circuit breaker. Its not off tge table -fucking krankie metaphirs- but its not what we plan at tge moment. The she added by the by, dont book foriegn holidays for half term. No joking she actually TOLD you not to, is that a fucking law is it?

As you can see, she angers me to talk about.

146276 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to A. Contrarian, #666 of 1950 🔗

Johnson can do one, I take responsibility for myself, ditto family members, we still meet up, as we did last lock down and all still here

145486 Kate, 14, #667 of 1950 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=100&v=smySilyKUOw&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=DeOmmekeer

Robert Kennedy’s speech in Berlin is always worth listening to, especially after Boris’s repugnant speech yesterday.

Kennedy’s speech will make you feel better.

145487 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 14, #668 of 1950 🔗

Good interview with Prof Carl Heneghan on Today program on radio 4 this morning (1 hr 14 mins in)
He is noticing a slow shift in gov policy more towards the Swedish model – control the spread as appose to supress it.
(I think they did take on board what He and Prof Gupta said on Sunday – probably why whitty was so angry on Monday)
Heneghan would also like to see a move away from fear and enforcement as a motivation to follow the rules- and instead gov should be more supportive and trusting, and bring people along with them….

(No mention of masks – he can only do so much – I think ”the people” use masks to protect themselves like young children use teddies and comfort blankets – take masks away and they will cry)

145494 ▶▶ matt, replying to Major Panic, 26, #669 of 1950 🔗

Telling people they mustn’t wear masks would be as unreasonable as telling people they must. Wear one if you want. I don’t care.

145515 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 17, #670 of 1950 🔗

Though nobody’s proposing actually banning mask wearing (though there’s arguably a better case for it than there is for making them compulsory – they are unlikely to do any good healthwise, might do harm healthwise, and certainly spread fear).

But making them voluntary again is the real priority.

145525 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mark, 7, #671 of 1950 🔗

Sorry – I didn’t mean to imply banning masks – but making them less ‘mandatory’ would be like taking a young child’s comfort blanket away – the many appear to believe in and have faith in the mask bollocks

145574 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Major Panic, 11, #672 of 1950 🔗

I can just about put up with most of the shit that’s thrown at us at the moment, but mandatory use of face nappies is something else. That is the single biggest departure from normality we’re experiencing. When will it ever end? It MUST end!

145583 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Tenchy, 2, #673 of 1950 🔗

agreed – Well I am except – aren’t you?

145591 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tenchy, 5, #674 of 1950 🔗

And in restaurants. The multiplication of more bugs with people wearing masks wouldn’t pass a Health Inspection. For masks in the kitchen there are strict rules of use.

145600 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Major Panic, 5, #675 of 1950 🔗

I’m sure you are right about that for some people, but I think any effect of reassuring people is far outweighed by the general terrorising effect of seeing such an abnormal practice being so widespread. Just proves to people that there must be something out there to be afraid of.

145619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mark, #676 of 1950 🔗

agreed – but I think the two Ronnies want more draconian measures and more mask bollocks was a compromise

145696 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 5, #677 of 1950 🔗

I don’t mind a scrap if zombies want to choke on nappies. It’s forcing them in the rest if us that is disgusting.

145584 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark, 3, #678 of 1950 🔗

Actually there has been plenty of incidents through the years where mask wesring has been wrong. Concealing identity.

145592 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Basics, #679 of 1950 🔗

True, though not really relevant here.

145608 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark, 8, #680 of 1950 🔗

I disagree. It is important to keep in mind how alien masks are to our customs and traditions of our nation. Some mask wearing is part of our culture, not in daily life. Your discussion is about the wearing of masks, matt makes the perfect comment – force no one to wear or not to wear, I agree. And thoughtfully add there is a history to masks concealing identities – not to be forgotten or normalised by being irrelevant.

Mask wearing is alien.

145766 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #681 of 1950 🔗

Mask wearing is just wrong.

145764 ▶▶▶▶▶ TyRade, replying to Basics, 1, #682 of 1950 🔗

including, as Our Dear Leader once implied, the burqa’d female half of 2 billion Muslims.

145761 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #683 of 1950 🔗

Make it optional

145796 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to matt, #684 of 1950 🔗

Medically, it would likely be very much justified to forbid them.
Psychologically and politically, that would now certainly result in a desaster for the sheep, the politicians and the cheerleaders.
But I’d take voluntariness as a first step.

145511 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Major Panic, 1, #685 of 1950 🔗

Great, now someone just needs to tell Boris, Whitty and Hancock the good news.

145512 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Major Panic, 8, #686 of 1950 🔗

He is being sensible (as you would expect). He knows he isn’t going to win on everything right away and is working on this slow shift. While still terrifyingly disproportionate and absurd, I was actually expecting worse yesterday, which suggests the government may have listened a bit.

145521 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 10, #687 of 1950 🔗

I wish Chris Whitty every day of his life is spent in anger. For the harm he has caused to those he took responsibility to safe guard but instead harmed. Pull a graphic like that on me and I know I have a charlatan in front of me.

145524 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Basics, 8, #688 of 1950 🔗

They should all be put on trial when this is over.

145532 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Major Panic, 5, #689 of 1950 🔗

I hate to piss on the parade but Whitty is reported in the times today and saying he thinks we should follow Scotland on banning visiting other households

145538 ▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #690 of 1950 🔗

So maybe Heneghan’s input prevented Whitty getting his way in the announcement yesterday?

145603 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #691 of 1950 🔗

I think it’s all theatre.The restrictions don’t make sense even on their own terms.They will be shown not to work so into lockdown in October for our own good.

145606 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #692 of 1950 🔗

I do agree that lockdown is coming sooner rather than later.

145546 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #693 of 1950 🔗

People in Wales’s four lockdown areas are not taking any notice of that bollocks.

145691 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #694 of 1950 🔗

Yay!

145587 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #695 of 1950 🔗

He’s a single bloke, it’s not a policy that affects him.

145798 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #696 of 1950 🔗

I contest that being single. Without being allowed to visit people I am effectively in isolation and despite being not overly-social, it’s really starting to take a toll on me.

145773 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #697 of 1950 🔗

Looks like Nicola has found her new forever CMO. All he needs is a sex change. Isn’t Wittyless in favour of medical interventions with or without consent. There, sorted it for you Nicola!

145541 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Major Panic, 4, #698 of 1950 🔗

Agreed, I think Boris was under pressure to ban visits between households but did not do that possibly in response to these counterviews. Another little brick out of the lock-down wall

145542 ▶▶ Will, replying to Major Panic, 7, #699 of 1950 🔗

Masks are a highly visible article of faith. People are starting to admit lockdown was wrong, even the c’nt Ferguson has done that, but whilst they might be ready to admit they were wrong to support lockdown, in a couple of weeks, taking away their face nappies would be too much for them, I suspect.

145690 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Will, 1, #700 of 1950 🔗

As yet…

145788 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Will, #701 of 1950 🔗

Objectively, masks always were and still are, at best, a Gessler hat.
But you are absolutely right: imagine the powers confessed that they might indeed also do more harm than good even with regard to the Corona virus spread and infections.
All hell would break lose amongst the, sofar, faithful.
Much better for them to double down on their mistake and zealousness, by making them mandatory outside, at each workplace and for children during class.

145572 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Major Panic, 2, #702 of 1950 🔗

I noticed that his open letter tries very hard not to challenge, only to point out obvious deficiencies in the case. The deficiencies don’t themselves invalidate the broad approach of restrictions. I guess he has to start somewhere. If the government accepts that some of what it is being told is wrong, then it may become more open to other arguments. It is the old problem: do you collaborate or resist?

145669 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to WhyNow, 2, #703 of 1950 🔗

He’s got to collaborate. If he resists, he gives power to the other side and they will reject him fairly quickly. I know we all want maximum resistance but that isn’t always the best way to get what you want. He’s astute (and also brilliant at the stats and evidence).

145508 stewart, replying to stewart, 11, #704 of 1950 🔗

This clip of Raab showing he has no clue whatsoever how many healthy people under 60 die from covid must be sent to every MP. It shows that the most senior members of the government have no grasp whatsoever of the situation.

https://youtu.be/PSlfY3QvFJA?t=777

145537 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to stewart, 11, #705 of 1950 🔗

I was with the journalist until she said she was in favour of social distancing and wearing masks. This is all part of the nonsense. Common decency and handwashing are enough. Anything more and you start spreading fear and economic damage.

145560 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #706 of 1950 🔗

Exactly. I was amazed that, right at the end, she capitulated in that way.

145666 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #707 of 1950 🔗

Probably had the producer blowing down her ear, toe the line and get back to the narrative

145563 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to stewart, 1, #708 of 1950 🔗

I think I counted five “upticks” and two “rampings up” from Raab. Bullshitter.

145576 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to stewart, 1, #709 of 1950 🔗

Yet he shamelessly claimed: “We test all the evidence”.

145582 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stewart, 2, #710 of 1950 🔗

Watching these clueless politicians and scientists I may have to rethink my conspiracy theories.
It could be that they are really just incredibly stupid and incompetent.
I didn’t think it was possible

145758 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #711 of 1950 🔗

You clearly haven’t met many politicians. I must say that does you great credit.

145663 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stewart, 3, #712 of 1950 🔗

Raab is briefed on what he calls the interconnected nature of society – you cough is someones death knell. That is the governments briefed line – all minister to double down on that principle.

It is a conscious choice to deliberately install this unnatural unprecedented approach to public health and public life. This is a core point because the changes, vaccines, IDs, limitstions on life all stem from this single element. You may cause death by coughing.

I haven’t words to describe how wrong headed this principle is. It is a concious schemed shift in human life. Raab is dangerous for disemminating such a fatal ideology to liberty/ humanity.

He’s not a fool badly briefed. He delivers the line he has been told to.

145738 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to stewart, #713 of 1950 🔗

Julia does love the masks, though 😩

145832 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to stewart, 1, #714 of 1950 🔗

In his stumbling response to how low the mortality figure was for healthy people under 60 he sort of suggested it was a new revelation. It has, of course, been in the public domain for weeks. It is very worrying he hadn’t a clue.

145531 Sarigan, 2, #715 of 1950 🔗

Looks like restrictions / local lockdowns DO NOT work.

We needed a control sample to check the hypothesis

https://twitter.com/dontbetyet/status/1308680780185587713?s=09

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ssIzgy8dLMgPzww430pfFJG4U2NGWojm/view

145539 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 21, #716 of 1950 🔗

Just read the Spiked article – it was very spot on and agree that we should take back control if we don’t want to end up like say the People’s Democratic Republic of Victoria under its Dear Leader Kim Jong Dan.

The news from yesterday has left me really fuming and incandescent with rage – in the face of a growing backlash and backbench revolt over their failing policies and multiple errors, Johnson sees fit to threaten us and even tear this country apart by using the armed forces to scare and cow the populace.

This is not on and we should resist at all costs.

My workplace is already clinging on a knife edge. More of this and we are finished, even top management will most likely have to make themselves redundant too.

The offices near my workplace are still ghost towns with the only independent cafe having to close due to lack of custom, it was sad as they made excellent coffee and provided good service.

That leaves only the chain stores, cafes and restaurants – I seriously doubt if they will survive as well.

145573 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #717 of 1950 🔗

Only 3 shops open on Haymarket in London’s west end.Cafe Concerto Cafe Nero and A Spaghetti house with no one in it.Bad times coming

145624 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #718 of 1950 🔗

That’s really bad. On the Charing Cross side of the Strand yesterday only McDonald’s, Sainsbury’s, Wasabi were open. Paperchase was also open but was empty The rest were shut with Carphone Warehouse and a Japanese sweet shop closed permanently.

As you said bad times indeed coming.

145658 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #719 of 1950 🔗

I’d add for those unfamiliar with London,these 2 roads lead into trafalgar Sq.Centre of London

145668 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #720 of 1950 🔗

Yep, should be crammed with people, normally so busy people have to walk in the road, well I did to avoid all of the bloody tourists.

145698 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to stefarm, #721 of 1950 🔗

I miss tourists 🙁

145855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, #722 of 1950 🔗

Those two areas are always jam packed with people even late at night when the shows had finished.

Now they’re simply ghost towns.

145868 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, #723 of 1950 🔗

Also Pizza Hut and Topshop open but the latter was empty too despite the sales.

145636 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #724 of 1950 🔗

There’s been chatter in msm about the furlough extension/conservatory with granny flat above maybe. Anyway. The name Sunak and the label chancellor have been entirely missing from speeches and yesterdays commons panto.

Is it possible the treasury is trying to arrange borrowing to cover an extension but no lrnders are forth coming?

The time to annouce the furlough was yesterday.
Carney and the WEF have said many industries that do not serve their decreed common good will be smashed. Travel and hospitality are two sectors they don’t want in the current form.

145664 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 5, #725 of 1950 🔗

Always felt that quarantine was just a way to destroy the aviation and travel industry.It served no purpose in fighting a virus that was already endemic in the country.Travel for the plebs doesn’t fit in the green new world

145578 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #726 of 1950 🔗

It was in 2013 that Eddie Mair pinned Johnson to the wall with evidence that he is (was) ‘a nasty piece of work’.

Well – now that we have even more proof positive – can you imagine the Beeb getting anywhere near that truth?

145771 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to RickH, #727 of 1950 🔗

Where are broadcasters like Eddie Mair when you need them. Have rarely listened to PM since he left.

145545 Pendolino, 4, #728 of 1950 🔗

Stewart. Re Dominic Raab. I switched on sky news this morning (I know, I know…) and caught the tail end of the foreign secretary’s interview with Kay Burley. Asked why the government wasn’t doing more to help aviation by introducing testing at airports, he said,”The challenge is that the false positive rate is very high. It’s (sic) only 7% of tests will be successful in identifying those that actually have the virus. So the truth is, you can’t just rely on that…”
I kept replaying the segment to make sure I copied it exactly.
Astonishing.
Needless to say KB didn’t pick up on it.

145547 NickR, replying to NickR, 15, #729 of 1950 🔗

Look on the bright side, all the BLM supporting £150k / week footballers supporting the overthrow of capitalism look like they’re gonna be granted their wish (kids, be careful what you wish for!).

145627 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to NickR, 8, #730 of 1950 🔗

Ditto with slebs – with no work coming in for them then that means that they will have to go on the dole too like us plebs.

Let that me a moral lesson for these thick footballers and slebs.

145552 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 33, #731 of 1950 🔗

This is my letter to my MP (also sent to Graham Brady) – a small attempt to ‘take back control’ :

As a constituent of yours and a citizen of the United Kingdom, I can no longer hold my tongue on the self imposed coronavirus crisis – the crisis caused by the destruction of society and economy, not the rapidly vanishing almost totally non-fatal disease.

Do the government actually believe the lies they and the BBC are telling us? Because we, the people of this country on whose consent government operates, stopped believing them a long time ago.

PM Johnson’s hapless spokespeople trot out endless reams of figures about ‘cases’ given to them by their agenda-ridden advisors, but the people of this country, do not care about ‘cases’, cases don’t matter, in fact they are to be warmly welcomed, cases are largely not illnesses, illnesses are largely not hospitalisations and hospitalisations are rarely any longer resulting in deaths. Only deaths matter.

Every other cause of death you can think of are now higher than deaths by covid – even suicides, and if Herr Johnson continues to direct his medico-fascist inspired policies against the people of this country, those deaths will increase at a far more rapid rate than covid deaths, along, no doubt with an increasing number of mortalities due the civil disobedience which will become inevitable.

Cases of covid are to be welcomed, especially in the young, they indicate the progress of herd immunity which is the one and only solution to viruses. The body’s immune system will repel this virus as it does others in all but the weakest members of society and those people would usually be dying from something else anyway, if not covid. You cannot outlaw death, so stop trying to do so, and let us have as many cases as we can. Sweden tells you that is the only way.

It is incumbent upon you and your fellow MP’s to end this appallingly disastrous fiasco by removing our cowardly and possibly brain damaged Prime Minister from office (and yes, I voted for him). Unless you do that, this country is finished. Vote against any extension to the draconian coronavirus bill and all other related fiats, then vote for a no confidence motion on his leadership and remove him. May I remind you that the present government was elected primarily to relieve this country of the tyranny of EU rule, and not to replace it with a tyrant of the home grown kind.

I know of nobody whatsoever that has suffered from coronavirus, but I do know of several card carrying Tories that have ripped up there party membership cards in protest at this pantomime and vowed never to vote Tory again.

Do you want a country run by Kier Starmer?

I hope that is a rhetorical question, but that is what you will get if you don’t act NOW.

I do not require a reply to this missive, I would be far more satisfied to witness the evidence of your actions rather than read the nuances of your words. Obviously you may reply if you want to, but if you do reply, please do not send me a platitude laden tirade about being a ‘granny killer’. I am a granny, at least I could be if I were the opposite gender, but actually men are much more likely to succumb to covid than women, who have a superior immune system. I am vulnerable to this disease, but I don’t believe that my continued life is worth dismantling the whole of society for when I will die in a few years anyway from something else, probably something that goes undiagnosed due to the almost total shutdown of the NHS for anything not covid related. I value my life highly, very highly, but I equally value my mental health and wellbeing and my ability to live my life as much as I can before it ends instead of living it under the regime of fear and tyranny imposed by Johnson et al, and I value other peoples rights to do the same – that should be a fundamental tenet of Conservatism but no longer appears to be so. I want to end my life in the same country that I grew up in, one of hope, prosperity and opportunity, not in one cowed by totally unnecessary, destructive, dictatorial, medical fascism.

Please help me, and in doing so please help your country, because it is being destroyed, whether by ignorance or design I guess only one person knows, and he is not going to tell you either way.

145702 ▶▶ annie, replying to Old Bill, 2, #732 of 1950 🔗

Great stuff, granny!

145792 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to annie, 3, #733 of 1950 🔗

Thank you Annie.
I could post a picture of me in my wrinkled stockings, pinny and curlers, but I think even Toby’s censors would have to pull that!

146971 ▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Old Bill, #734 of 1950 🔗

Anyone know Graham Brady’s email?

145559 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 15, #735 of 1950 🔗

I hope pubs will have a count down clock to when the “killer” virus becomes active. 9:59 inactive. 10:00 the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse ride out.

I have to admit this virus is very clever, I bet you cannot train your dog to tell the time and distinguish the number of guests attending funerals and weddings.

I’m trying to ignore the farce now, as it’s boring.

145610 ▶▶ Drummerman, replying to Smelly Melly, 5, #736 of 1950 🔗

A very clever virus, indeed. It has its own diary, watch and tape measure.

146772 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Drummerman, #737 of 1950 🔗

And has its own sat nav

145562 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 47, #738 of 1950 🔗

I’ve just sent this email to Dominic Raab…

Dear Dominic Raab,

Draconian measures will always undermine liberty. But there is scant evidence that they have made us safer ” – Dominic Raab writing in his book ‘The Assault on Liberty’ (2009).

Yours confusedly,

145565 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Major Panic, 6, #739 of 1950 🔗

Excellent.

145568 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 6, #740 of 1950 🔗

Isn’t it just. Boomerang to the face

145589 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Major Panic, 2, #741 of 1950 🔗

Doubt he actually wrote that himself, probably got a flunkey to ghost it for him.

145704 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Matt The Cat, 2, #742 of 1950 🔗

Put his fat name to it, didn’t he!!

145564 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 9, #743 of 1950 🔗

Just been standing in the garden enjoying the sun and watching the blue tits.

It’s great to be alive.

Must remember to wear a t shirt next time.

145588 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to stefarm, 1, #744 of 1950 🔗

Here in NE England it’s lashing it down; gloomy weather, gloomy outlook on the lab flu front. At least the markets have picked up today.

145655 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to stefarm, 2, #745 of 1950 🔗

Mask on? Think of anyone within a five mile radius and a careless cough…

145660 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to arfurmo, 2, #746 of 1950 🔗

Nah, my tits are well hard, they don’t care

145744 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stefarm, 1, #747 of 1950 🔗

Blue, coal or great?

146074 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nick Rose, #748 of 1950 🔗

I favour great tits but beggars can’t be choosers

145575 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #749 of 1950 🔗

Johnson has had cv19, has Whitty also had it?

145580 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #750 of 1950 🔗

Johnson, Whitty, Wankock – they’ve all had it. Why aren’t they being taken to task for not antisocial distancing?

145590 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #751 of 1950 🔗

He is it

145593 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #752 of 1950 🔗

Yes. Johnson, Whitty and Hancock all got it at the same time – there was a suggestion that they might have been infected by Ferguson, as the timing seemed to correspond with his March 16 paper that precipitated the lockdown.

145595 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #753 of 1950 🔗

Interesting post from Steve Brown on Discord chat.

So disappointed to find that so many on here have bought into (in the absence of any evidence) that there are widespread long-term health implications of COVID.

FFS, most of these “long COVID” suffererers haven’t even had a positive COVID or antibody test, and many of them have had numerous negative tests.

Anyway, here’s a puzzle for everyone. Can anyone explain why COVID cases spiked absolutely simultaneously across the country right at the beginning of September (too soon to be caused by infections in schools)? See the image below. It’s almost as if there was a policy to deliberately increase case numbers. Now why would it be in the interests of the government to have COVID cases dominating the news this month? Anyone want to bet they’ll drop off again after the end of September?
comment image

Look at the line top to bottom on the right from distance, it is so straight.

145615 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, 4, #754 of 1950 🔗

The increase across England at the beginning of England is too clearly defined to be a natural occurrence.

The only possibly explanation if the numbers have not been purposely been manipulated, is that the civil servants who report the numbers had a couple of weeks on holiday at the end of August and then simply put those figures into September rather than in the correct weeks.

145869 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Dave #KBF, #755 of 1950 🔗

That’s an interesting theory. We know that deaths are reported when they are processed rather than when they occur, so that could easily be the case for “cases” too.

145937 ▶▶ jojo, replying to Sarigan, #756 of 1950 🔗

Eat out to spread out may be.

145597 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #757 of 1950 🔗

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40053341.html

The Swedish tell it straight. Unfortunately, the lockdown scrotes claim that because Sweden had higher deaths than its Nordic neighbours and also had an economic decline, this proves that not locking down doesn’t work.

145680 ▶▶ Will, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #758 of 1950 🔗

Excess deaths? Death certification protocols? Ireland is obsessed with lockdown it seems. I am a plastic paddy myself and a Munster supporter, the lockdown thread on the fans forum is page after page of group think, cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. Some people actually believe Ferguson/ Imperial’s ludicrous 3.5 million lives saved figure.

145826 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Ewan Duffy, #759 of 1950 🔗

Does anyone know if this is the case( ie in aggregate now) and shouldn’t any comparison also take account of collateral damage ( education, other medical services). I’ve visited and done business in Sweden, Norway and Finland and would say that Swedish visited – where most of Swedish population lives, has more in common with U.K. and Germany than with its neighbours. In any event, they still did better than us per capita and without the same collateral and now without any appreciable rise in ‘cases’. They can get on with their lives. Isn’t it terrible that they are willing Sweden to have more deaths and hospitalisations rather than admit their strategy was the right one and ours, in retrospect was a mistake. These people seem to have no moral compass at all. Yet we sceptics are the heartless ones.

145828 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to Telpin, #760 of 1950 🔗

Sorry typo- Swedish cities ( not ‘visited’)

145602 Matt The Cat, replying to Matt The Cat, 11, #761 of 1950 🔗

I’ve never written to any MP of mine up until now BUT …

I wrote to my (tory) MP yesterday via the form on his webshite. I used a template which was posted here in the last couple of days, haven’t received a reply yet, not even an auto-generated response, and I’m kind of resigned to the fact that I won’t receive one at all, but I think it’s important to keep up the pressure.

Let them know that WE know what’s going on, etc etc.

145634 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Matt The Cat, 2, #762 of 1950 🔗

Ditto. No response not even an acknowledgement.

145642 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Matt The Cat, 4, #763 of 1950 🔗

Not getting a response is not unusual, but watch the Unherd interview with Graham Brady linked above to see that such correspondence does affect their thinking.

145607 Sarigan, 7, #764 of 1950 🔗

https://twitter.com/govkristinoem/status/1308424400446906369?s=09

It looks like South Dakota’s #COVID19 spread peaked the latest of just about any state. Even so, we continue to be in good shape with only 5% of our ICU beds occupied by COVID patients. It just goes to show that you don’t need lockdowns to be responsible and flatten the curve.

145611 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #765 of 1950 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20196428v1

Good news from Scotland.Will they listen?
Sharing a household with children and risk of COVID-19: a study of over 300,000 adults living in healthcare worker households in Scotland
“Conclusion Increased household exposure to young children was associated with an attenuated risk of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 and appeared to also be associated with an attenuated risk of COVID-19 disease severe enough to require hospitalisation”

145672 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to swedenborg, 4, #766 of 1950 🔗

This is interesting. Could it be that mixing with others benefits our immune systems?!

145695 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to DJ Dod, #767 of 1950 🔗

https://twitter.com/kerpen/status/1308585912599797760

You can’t exclude that exposure to children ie teachers could be protective.And what are we doing? Closing schools for months.

145708 ▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #768 of 1950 🔗

I need a couple of kids to keep me safe, any going spare?

145612 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 24, #769 of 1950 🔗

The Cobra Meeting:
comment image

No social distancing and no masks. One rule for them and another rule for the rest of us.

145621 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Sarigan, 10, #770 of 1950 🔗

Is he picking his nose? Looks very much like it.

145630 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Strange Days, 3, #771 of 1950 🔗

He missed lunch!

145652 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Strange Days, 3, #772 of 1950 🔗

Probably eats it as well

145730 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Strange Days, 1, #773 of 1950 🔗

Trying to find the brain cell. He’s forgotten it’s Boris’s turn to have it today.

145760 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Strange Days, 1, #774 of 1950 🔗

No, he’s doing his own covid test.

145827 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Strange Days, 1, #775 of 1950 🔗

A bit of brain needs removing.

145622 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Sarigan, 5, #776 of 1950 🔗

ah but remember under 12’s are exempt from the virus!

145795 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to JHuntz, #777 of 1950 🔗

lol

145629 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Sarigan, 11, #778 of 1950 🔗

Of course not..the whole thing is a psyop and we are falling for it 100%..They must be pissing themselves with laughter on how this whole thing has worked for them

145631 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, 11, #779 of 1950 🔗

No distancing, no masks not because of them and us, but because the virus is being used as cover to restructure everything.

145654 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 2, #780 of 1950 🔗

I read somewhere that handcock stated on his Twitter account that he is exempt from wearing a mask.

Anybody else seen it?

146094 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to stefarm, #781 of 1950 🔗

Allowed to pick his nose though.

145616 JHuntz, 13, #782 of 1950 🔗

Tory MP on the tellie says they believe in personal liberty without even skipping a beat. I’m absolutely howling.

145617 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 19, #783 of 1950 🔗

I am now officially full of fear. When a man like Neil Oliver on Mike Graham just now is himself in despair then it’s time to worry – or do something. Saturday. Listening to Raab this morning threatening the ungrateful plebs with more and heavier oppression if they displease TPTB did it as well. We are being trodden on heavily for something that MIGHT or might not happen at some fictional time in the future. If it doesn’t happen then the government will say it’s because of their ‘precautions’. If it does happen, they will say it’s because we misbehaved again and the boot will go on the neck harder. Add to that the first stirrings from a sub-government body (Leeds council) for a ‘national wage’ closely followed no doubt by housing being nationalised to avoid unacceptable numbers of people on the streets means the government will have total control over your life. Misbehave and you lose your livelihood and your roof.

We are half way there now. That’s what’s called a ‘tipping point’.

Yet yesterday this authoritarian government allowed in, without demur, 500 illegal immigrants, none of which are subject to the oppression we have to endure.

This is simply unsustainable. We MUST be heard. Saturday, turn up, or become gulag-fodder.

145639 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #784 of 1950 🔗

If that’s true, what does that mean in reality? What does nationalisation of housing really mean if you have a mortgage? I just can’t get my head around it. And what would a national wage be for everyone? Where is the money coming from?

145824 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #785 of 1950 🔗

The UN. It might as well be. Agenda 21 (UN) hinted at it. Drip feed actions to come two weeks down the road through the compliant MSM and the nudge theory responds. It’s Communism – the version TPTB think hasn’t been tried yet. State ownership of everything so there’s nowhere else to go. Nationalise the banks, building societies, provide the TUC supported National Wage (merely an extension of furlough) and you’re more than half way there. Learn Spanish on the one day in school, and it’s Venezuela, but worldwide. Nowhere else to go. It’s less unbelievable than Whitty’s chart.

145682 ▶▶ CGL, replying to James Leary #KBF, 8, #786 of 1950 🔗

Neil Oliver was on sunday brunch and almost brought me to tears – that man has more humanity than anyone I have heard recently. A wonderful man.

145618 JHuntz, 13, #787 of 1950 🔗

So surely at this stage you would now be classed as a conspiracy theorist to believe that the government are following actual science?

145626 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #788 of 1950 🔗

I came across this video, some of you may not approve but I thought it hilarious!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HdEzJV7o4oU

145659 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #789 of 1950 🔗

He has a whole plethora of similar videos. I think they are hilarious.

145632 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 32, #790 of 1950 🔗

After the Boris speech last night I spoke to 23 friends and family through social media. We are a fractious lot voting red, blue & yellow and have never totally agreed on anything.

Ever.

Until last night. Comment of the night was ‘Fuck Boris’ (ad nauseum).

I’m proud of my friends & family, at least half of them were believers, or at least accepting of our fates. Not any more!

I’m gonna get a T shirt made up.
‘Fuck Boris ‘.

🙂

145638 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Arnie, 2, #791 of 1950 🔗

Encouraging stuff!

145678 ▶▶ dhpaul, replying to Arnie, 7, #792 of 1950 🔗

I was in USA on holiday in late 2026 and saw many joggers wearing Tshirts with “Tuck Frump” on the front. “Buck Foris” anyone?

145948 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to dhpaul, #793 of 1950 🔗

Late 2026? Do you have a time machine to post-covid times?! 😀

146554 ▶▶▶▶ dhpaul, replying to nocheesegromit, #794 of 1950 🔗

Apologies, finger trouble, meant 2016

145765 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Arnie, 8, #795 of 1950 🔗

It was on for all of 10 seconds in our house – youngest (10yrs old) quickly asking, “please turn this clown off”.

A very proud moment for me.

145785 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Arnie, 1, #796 of 1950 🔗

I had a similar experience. Although most aren’t full on sceptics, they’re of the opinion that lines are being crossed and it’s becoming disproportionate.

145646 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #798 of 1950 🔗

Like turkeys voting for Christmas.

145649 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #799 of 1950 🔗

I don’t blame companies for doing this. It is the government that is threatening businesses with huge fines for non enforcement.

145934 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Bumble, #800 of 1950 🔗

What is more salaries of 1000 marshals or hypothetical fines?

146090 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Bumble, #801 of 1950 🔗

I hope they know about exemptions.

145644 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #802 of 1950 🔗

Copied from my LinkedIn feed (not connected to this tool – someone I am connected to is):

Keith Wilson CHRO I Board Advisor I Chief Transformation Officer
I love our NEW WAY OF WORKING that we’re building, & the CHANGES IN SOCIETY we’re starting to have conversations about.

I joined one yesterday at the World Economic Forum ’s session – they’re calling it THE GREAT RESET; developing a new social contract

All change starts with the individual, how you consciously manifest the self you want to be in each step you take, engaging the people around you

The great reset has allowed me to spend time with these little ladies. Take them to their 1st day at nursery, take them on a ‘galk’ every day; forage for brambles, watch them devour wild garlic, build a swing. Play Lego, read, hear them string 2 words & then 3 words together, sneak off on a sunny day for a cheeky ice-cream… ‘Daddy..please..some..’

I’ve witnessed their Mum work tirelessly to shape 2 confident, beautiful, brave & kind warriors, just like her

There’s going to be a lot of RESETTING.
I bet there’s going to be a lot of Dads, like me, consciously designing a life where they can contribute more, take on more of the daily childcare, & share the exhausting, fun & absolute life-affirming delight of watching little ones flourish

They’re a daily reminder of the responsibility to build a better world, one they deserve.

145681 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #803 of 1950 🔗

LinkedIn is probably the most hollow and inauthentic of all the social media sites. I tend to find that anyone with a real job doesn’t have the time or inclination to post such virtue signalling dross.

145687 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #804 of 1950 🔗

Quite an awkward way of discussing his personal relationships. I would have small concerns about that and keep a track on how he relates to others elsewhere.

Great reset. Yeah, all pushing for it from local council up to the full globalist organisations. All this ‘incompetence’ is being used as the window of opportunity to advance the installment of it, so nothhing to see there.

145713 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #805 of 1950 🔗

I can’t wait to see the profile in a 15 years’ time: ‘I had to scan my eyeball into my phone to be allowed into see my kids in their 5ft by 5ft university accommodation, but my phone overheard me saying the PM was a fool yesterday and now it has told me I need to go in for my COVID test so that I have a enough social credit to be allowed to access my bike to cycle back home. What a reset!’

146099 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Ewan Duffy, #806 of 1950 🔗

Somebody needs to point out to twats like this, how many children in the developing world are likely starving, because of this marvellous “Great Reset”?
Wondered if he’d thought about that one?

145645 Steve Hayes, 17, #807 of 1950 🔗

The governmental responses to the coronavirus are not effective in preventing the transmission of the virus, but they are effective in spreading fear, in undermining the rule of law, in hollowing out democracy, in decimating the economy, in causing illness and deaths, in violating our rights and liberties, in creating isolation and sowing division, in creating poverty and hunger. This is a case of collective madness, on an unprecedented scale. The more I listen to government ministers and their advisors attempted justifications, the more obvious it is that they are completely irrational and utterly delusional.

145647 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 13, #808 of 1950 🔗

Further good news.The risk of dying if you get the C-19 infecton by age

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

The US govt last week updated the survival rates (i.e., IF infected) for Covid19: 0-19 99.997% 20-49 99.98% 50-69 99.5% 70+ 94.6%
 Can any one contradict that the only sensible option is to protect the elderly and ALL other measures are meaningless waste of money and resources?

145656 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #809 of 1950 🔗

All journalists please ask this question to all politicians,what is the risk of dying of C-19 in age groups? I am interested to hear the replies

145684 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, #810 of 1950 🔗

Have you fact checked that?

145686 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Two-Six, 2, #811 of 1950 🔗

All figures are in the link from CDC

145951 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, 2, #812 of 1950 🔗

I know, just joking

145694 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to swedenborg, 1, #813 of 1950 🔗

Why should “we” protect the elderly?

145706 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to BJJ, 3, #814 of 1950 🔗

I think it is reasonable to protect the elderly in carehomes and those over 70 in the community who want’s the maximum protection possible.

146027 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to swedenborg, 2, #815 of 1950 🔗

Shouldn´t the people themselves (who have a clear mind) decide whether they want to see their grandchildren, as an example?

145859 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to BJJ, 2, #816 of 1950 🔗

If I could shop mask free I’d gladly help elderly people get what they need. But that would be the deal — let the rest of us get on with normal life and I’m sure plenty of us would voluntarily help those who feel vulnerable.

145866 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to BJJ, 2, #817 of 1950 🔗

Are the elderly no longer allowed to consider, for themselves, whether or not they want or need protection?

145719 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to swedenborg, #818 of 1950 🔗

Is this a positive test or a positive test with symptoms or hospital admission?

145849 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Steeve, 1, #819 of 1950 🔗

This is based upon CDC estimation of infection (not tests done) in the population per age group.They have done these estimations for flu many years and now is this estimate for C-19. The stiamtion of infecton is naturally way higher than diagnosed cases etc.

146490 ▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to swedenborg, #820 of 1950 🔗

Thanks for the reply and explanation!

145823 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to swedenborg, 5, #821 of 1950 🔗

Nobody cares…It’s the plague…Just been called a cunt by a very close friend becasue I mentioned something similar. Also I’m selfish, a shit human being for scaring people with my idiotic, stupid, moronic now mask wearing. He also wishes my grandma (she is 93 and a holocausts survivor ) dies of Covid …People have lost their collective minds..

145864 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #822 of 1950 🔗

Just wow. At the beginning I could forgive and feel empathy for those who were truly frightened, but they’ve taken it to a new level with their over-the-top nastiness. Relationships of all kinds are being irreparably damaged.

145940 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to swedenborg, 1, #823 of 1950 🔗

What are the same figures for flu?

146082 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #824 of 1950 🔗

Actually good question. What would the survival rates be for any respiratory disease be in these age groups?

Either way, framed liked this, we can see the risks by age well enough to be able to make our own judgements on how we live.

147486 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Tom Blackburn, #825 of 1950 🔗

Just top of my head.Swineflu 2009 killed 10 times more children and young adults than C-19 but hardly any over 65.Just the opposite of C-19

145650 shorthand, replying to shorthand, 7, #826 of 1950 🔗

Hi all been a while. Even though I know it will be a waste of time, for the first time ever I’m writing to my MP, can I ask for a proofread…?

Douglas Ross,

I write to you as my local Parliamentary representative to voice my disapproval and concern at the ongoing situation that we daily find ourselves in at the mercy of a naturally occurring phenomenon and the UK Government’s sledgehammer response to it.

After 6 months of near total incompetence and failure by our elected UK Prime Minister and a small group of his officials, I am told yesterday by Matt Hancock that I am personally responsible for the increase in positive COV19 test cases. To date I have followed every diktat however banal I have found them to be and even when ‘The Science’ appears to be flawed.
I will now continue to be coerced into this charade for the foreseeable future with threat of financial penalty and ruin by being unable to see my immediate family indoors, my fiancé and daughter (They live overseas), friends and of course put any future wedding plans on hold as these are likely to be cancelled on the whim of our Prime Minister and First Minister.

Daily there is evidence emerging that non-pharmaceutical interventions are ineffective against this virus and serve only to slow down the spread and that the effect is worse than the cure given that many non Covid illnesses are going untreated, however this seems to be ignored by our elected leaders. The total elimination of a virus as is the aim of our First Minister is an impressive goal given that in human history this has been achieved only once when Edward Jenner developed an effective vaccine for smallpox in 1798. Almost 200 years later, the disease was officially certified as eradicated.

Currently, laws are being passed without any Parliamentary debate or decision, this is akin to an Elective Dictatorship and must end.
I urge you Douglas, to use your voice to bring an end to unnecessary lockdown measures as they are destroying our country and giving a greater voice to the end of the UK Union with the SNP using it in a political game, and furthermore, to insist that Ministerial Decree must end and that Parliament returns to a functioning Democracy once again.

Good to go? I don’t want to start adding facts and figures just to keep it simple

Ta much

145661 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to shorthand, 3, #827 of 1950 🔗

I would put a fulls top between once and when, so as to read “when Edward Jenner . . ” I think the role of vaccines in eliminating smallpox can be overestimated and the role of better sanitation can be underestimated. Great letter.

145674 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #828 of 1950 🔗

Absolutely correct

think the role of vaccines in eliminating smallpox can be overestimated and the role of better sanitation can be underestimated

146631 ▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to Londo Mollari, #829 of 1950 🔗

cheers, sent now. Don’t think I’ll hold my breath awaiting a reply, fker will likely have me ran off my property in a new highland clearance act snuck in under the emergency powers….

145839 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to shorthand, 4, #830 of 1950 🔗

Dear Conservative MPs

We can’t live like this.

We can’t plan anything.

We can’t plan anything for the next day because a rule might change and it will suddenly become illegal.

Your fellow Conservative MPs must be getting thousand of emails from desperate people with their businesses on the brink, with somebody dying of cancer because the weren’t treated while we were “saving the NHS”.

You and your fellow Conservative MPs have to work quickly to remove the Prime Minister from office before he destroys the country completely

Your constituent

145657 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 3, #831 of 1950 🔗

Spiegelhalter on R4 More or Less basically rubbishes the false positive criticism of the testing results because he says the Pillar 2 testing is not randomised and is giving a high prevalence so the 0.8% false positives would have little significance.
Is Toby on the case with this? Can anyone get to the truth of the matter please?

145665 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bill Hickling, 3, #832 of 1950 🔗

Whether he’s right or not, the MSM and government will take his pronouncements as gospel. It fits their agenda.

145676 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Bill Hickling, 4, #833 of 1950 🔗

Which as Toby explains above, means you cannot extrapolate the testing results to the wider population.

145677 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Bill Hickling, 3, #834 of 1950 🔗

It is just spin. The point is the false positive rate refers to the number of tests carried out, not (as Hancock et al seem to believe) the number of positive results. So if the government carries out hundreds of thousands of tests, there will be thousands of positive results that are false.

145710 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Bill Hickling, 5, #835 of 1950 🔗

DS is right in the sense that the FPR will have a smaller impact if those tested are more likely to have the disease than those in the wider population. FPs could still represent 50% of the total positives.

I still think it’s not really relevant as I tend to agree with the Tom Chivers argument that it is the trend that matters more than the actual numbers. If positive cases are increasing then that should mean that True AND False positives are increasing. A TC says if cases really are doubling every 7 days (no evidence at moment) then, if just 25% are TRUE positives, it will only delay things by a couple of weeks.

We need to watch the TREND.

145819 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, 2, #836 of 1950 🔗

The trend will only reflect the quality of the tool. PCR picks up other coronaviruses as well as bits of RNA currently because it appears the CT rate is too high (noise basically)

So an increasing signal can just mean more noise. If they cut the amplification rate down and resample maybe it will improve.

But no a trend by itself means little without knowing how the data came to be

145886 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, 1, #837 of 1950 🔗

In which circumstance there should be no objection to a transparent publication of amplification cycles used in the respective tests and, indeed, a clear policy to retest every single positive test in a different laboratory. If there is nothing to hide then there should be no concern about the introduction of such measures.

146284 ▶▶ MRG, replying to Bill Hickling, #838 of 1950 🔗

Depends on whether you believe the FPR has remained at 0.8% (at best) with all the issues relating to the Lighthouse Labs. If you read the James Ferguson article of today he cites a median value of 2.5% for the operational FPR from a “ review of 35 previous EQAs”. What I like to call the Measured (as opposed to True) Prevalence will rise with the FPR.

145662 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 16, #839 of 1950 🔗

Labour have not got a clue. Obsessed about testing not about the economic destruction and massive civil liberty overreach of these restrictions. Two sides of the same Globalist coin.

145670 ▶▶ mjr, replying to JHuntz, 11, #840 of 1950 🔗

i am also watching PMQs and Starmer just going on about testing and volumes of tests. No discussion about validity of tests. Now mentioning jobs … but basically it is all bollox.
the government cannot govern and the opposition are no opposing

145705 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to mjr, 2, #841 of 1950 🔗

Boris actually just said that immigrants are coming across the channel in kids paddling pools!

145768 ▶▶▶ Michael C, replying to mjr, 2, #842 of 1950 🔗

Spot on! The validity of the tests is crucial. Whatever Labour politicians and other left wing commentators say the current level of daily tests per million of population in the UK is the highest in the world for major sized countries (Worldometer), for instance almost twice as high as for Germany for starters. Those countries who have a higher testing rate than us include Denmark, Bahrain, the UAE, Singapore and Luxembourg. The problem with our testing regime is not its size but that its results are extremely unreliable and misleading.

145673 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JHuntz, 5, #843 of 1950 🔗

Labour also disemminating the cough to knell line which runs contrary to all past human existence. How are the two sides so on message with this strange twisted concept.

145700 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JHuntz, 4, #844 of 1950 🔗

It should be no surprise to anyone that Labour has been an enthusiastic pusher of authoritarian panic measures. Authoritarian collectivism, the many (supposedly) over the few, collective healthcare worship, “putting lives ahead of money”, anti-small business policies and the advocacy of radical extremism (lockdown) rather than tried and true responses (ie Sweden’s), are all directly within their natural political inclinations, along with anti-national globalism. That’s why both Corbyn and Starmer have been strongly in the panic camp on this – both wings of the Labour Party firm in their refusal to do their job of opposing the government’s disastrous policies, and in fact in pushing for even more panicky measures.

For precisely that reason it is especially weird that a supposedly conservative party (and so many supposedly conservative commenters) have gone along so enthusiastically with this panic response. Granted the “Conservative” Party is not particularly conservative and hasn’t been for years (Peter Hitchens has written books on the topic). But one would expect the rank and file at least to still retain some vestiges of conservatism, or a least some inclination to pretend to be actually conservative.

The answer lies in the especially cowardly, incompetent and unconservative “Conservative” Party hierarchy, and their firm grip on the rank and file, as you’d expect shortly after a big election win. A later term “Conservative” Party government would likely have had a much less tight grip on dissent within the party..

145722 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 4, #845 of 1950 🔗

Your desire to indulge in simplistic partisan politics at this time is part of the disease, not part of the cure.

Neither of the two main parties have distinguished themselves in this shit-show – they are both serving the same establishment.

But I’m interested in you busting a gut to criticise the main authors – the right-wing (mainly Brexiteer) Tories last in your condemnations.

Same sort of confirmation bias we see in the Covid fanatics.

145878 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 2, #846 of 1950 🔗

you are correct to want to avoid simplistic partisan politics.
So why do you have to bring up “Brexiteer” ,, Isn’t that simplistic partisan politics?

146010 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #847 of 1950 🔗

From the beginning my position has been that the government are to blame and should not be forgiven, but equally the supposed opposition have been pushing harder than the government in the wrong direction. You on the other hand have repeatedly made frankly ludicrous assertions (as you do here) about the panic being “driven” by “right wing” “Conservatives – “right-wingers” who seem to actually worship the collectivist NHS, believe in the magic money forest, and are happy to ditch all our traditions and established knowledge to experiment with an “expert”-led radical supposed solution imported from collectivist China via Europe – the very opposite of conservatism. Most of my comments here that have included Labour in the criticism have been in response to such patent partisan nonsense from you.

This one was a response to someone else making a different point, but was careful to criticise both sides. You are the one with the simplistic partisan party agenda here

There are two almost equally bad outcomes to this. The first is that the “Conservative” leadership get away with what they have done, the second is that Labour benefits undeservedly from their shameful display on this, just because they weren’t in government (fortunately) and weren’t able to mess things up even worse, as they made clear they wanted to.

We both want to avoid the first, but I want to avoid the second as well.

145675 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #848 of 1950 🔗

Why hasn’t the PHE surveillance report been published since 28th Aug?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/weekly-covid-19-surveillance-report-published

145714 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Sarigan, 3, #849 of 1950 🔗

Aren’t they busy moving their desks around and jockeying for a corner office?

145679 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 11, #850 of 1950 🔗

For those of you who don’t know Steven Nolan he is one of teh BBC’s highest paid radio presenters. Also a complete fear mongerer.

Listen to how he treats anyone questioning the narrative on cases, citing Carl Henegen no less. 17minutes in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ms80

He has never heard of Carl, or false positives. And he bangs the drum loudly for boots on the ground to punish lockdown rule breakers, like students.

These are criminal times for such individuals. They should never be allowed to forget their ignorance given the platform they stand on.

145693 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 11, #851 of 1950 🔗

He is disgraceful. Wanker of the highest order.

145753 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #852 of 1950 🔗

I cannot say on here what I would like to do to people like this, or maybe I can but my catholic upbringing stops me.

145803 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mrs issedoff, #853 of 1950 🔗

Mothball it for the duration!

145685 JohnMac, 3, #854 of 1950 🔗

At times like this we at least have the advantage of our Anglo-Saxon heritage, supplying us, as it does, with a strong store of good Anglo-Saxon adjectives and nouns.

People in other countries must be speechless.

145688 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #855 of 1950 🔗

https://twitter.com/stevebrown2856/status/1308705072235376640/photo/1

Absolutely stunning. Weekly incidence per 100 000 per ethnicity England

 Do you think Pakistani visiting pubs are driving the upsurge?

145701 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to swedenborg, #856 of 1950 🔗

Must be. No other explanation for the 10pm shutdown

145707 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to swedenborg, 13, #857 of 1950 🔗

Incidence in pakistanis is 6 x that in white people. And all driven by the NW of England. Also explains the household transmission numbers ie over crowded, multi generation homes. Makes so much sense to close the pubs early in rural Dorset.

145715 ▶▶▶ nickbowes, replying to Bumble, 3, #858 of 1950 🔗

The Government cannot call out the obvious. We are all in it together.

145731 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Bumble, 1, #859 of 1950 🔗

And in rural areas altogether.

145747 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Suitejb, #860 of 1950 🔗

In most cities, the testing stations have been located in areas where there is a large ethnic-minority population. People in these areas tend to be poorer and more susceptible to any respiratory infection.

So, no problem getting the numbers up. .

(p.s. saw a load of South Asian people meeting their kids out of school in Sheffield on Monday. They were all antisocial-distancing and some of them were wearing masks outside. Not one white parent was though (including this Grandma and Grandpa!) MW

146071 ▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #861 of 1950 🔗

You might have a good point there. I suspect this has more to do with living/working conditions than anything else. Plenty of fairly well to do Asian families visiting this area and many seem to be following the masking etc

145949 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Bumble, #862 of 1950 🔗

They were worried about large wedding parties in these areas before, so I guess they are still worried. Too difficult to actually tell the general public any of these specifics though – imagine the resentment in other population groups!

145922 ▶▶ Lucan Grey, replying to swedenborg, 2, #863 of 1950 🔗

People of Pakistani heritage tend to have severe Vitamin D deficiency. Few take sufficient supplements to make up for the lack of sunlight here in Blighty.

146951 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to swedenborg, 1, #864 of 1950 🔗

You’ve forgotten the study I referenced when you posted another similar article. It’s partly genetic. Bangladeshis and others from that part of Asia are more likely to have increased ACE2 receptors, so more susceptible to CV19. The researchers observed that the particular genetic sequence was similar to one extracted from Neanderthal DNA – an inheritance many humans share..

145703 nickbowes, replying to nickbowes, 42, #865 of 1950 🔗

Boris Johnson surely is now the most hated British PM in history.
Destroyer of the dreams of millions.

145709 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to nickbowes, 8, #866 of 1950 🔗

Dreams have turned to nightmares.

145723 ▶▶ D B, replying to nickbowes, 9, #867 of 1950 🔗

I literally cannot make a single life plan…

145745 ▶▶ TyRade, replying to nickbowes, 6, #868 of 1950 🔗

Paddy Power should quote odds of Boris’s ‘survival’. What price out by Christmas? Could Mourinho – by then also unemployed – take over for the rest of the COVID season? Or Sam Allardyce?

145769 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to TyRade, 6, #869 of 1950 🔗

Do you mean survival as PM or survival? The two may be linked.

145807 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to TyRade, 2, #870 of 1950 🔗

Have they opened a book on the Johnson being sectioned with hypersexuality? If rumours are to be believed all is far from well between Boris and Carrie….

145870 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to nickbowes, 6, #871 of 1950 🔗

I’m getting all nostalgic for Mrs May, which is not a sentence I’d ever thought I’d write.

145712 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #872 of 1950 🔗

Boris just confirmed this is ‘normal’ until a vaccine comes along!

145733 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #873 of 1950 🔗

Madness!

145777 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #874 of 1950 🔗

So probably for ever then.

145818 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Tenchy, 1, #875 of 1950 🔗

Who will be of course even worse than Boris…

145778 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #876 of 1950 🔗

Or until we get a new PM

145816 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #877 of 1950 🔗

So 5-10 years which is the average time do develop a vaccine (mother in law used to work for Astra-Z )..It will never ened..2nd wave followed by a 3rd wave followed by a 4th and another extension on Covid Emergency laws , and another…Well you get the picture

145994 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #878 of 1950 🔗

I just don’t see why – we never had a vaccine for Spanish flu, Asian flu or Hong Kong flu, or even the bubonic plague FFS and we’ve managed to survive without shutting down society… Why is this virus so special? I’m not into conspiracies but it’s getting harder and harder to see any other explanation.

146050 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #879 of 1950 🔗

Yep, he’s barking! He’ll only be remembered as Boris the Mad. He’s making Trump seem normal!

145718 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #880 of 1950 🔗

The various attempts to calculate false positive rate (FPR) would appear to be little more than speculative as accurate calculations can only be made if the true positives are known. It appears that James Ferguson and Michael Yeadon understand this but other commentators are trying to fudge this inconvenient truth. The true positives can only be determined by reference to an agreed, definitive Gold Standard and this does not yet exist:

Differences between screening and diagnostic tests and case finding

Screening tests are not diagnostic tests

The primary purpose of screening tests is to detect early disease or risk factors for disease in large numbers of apparently healthy individuals.

https://www.healthknowledge.org.uk/public-health-textbook/disease-causation-diagnostic/2c-diagnosis-screening/screening-diagnostic-case-finding

AND

The purpose of a diagnostic test is to establish the presence (or absence) of disease as a basis for treatment decisions in symptomatic or screen positive individuals (confirmatory test). Some of the key differences are tabled below (etc):

For the link, see the same page, above, look at the third link down on the right.

AND

Screening is the process of identifying healthy people who may have an increased chance of a disease or condition.

The screening provider then offers information, further tests and treatment. This is to reduce associated problems or complications.

Screening should always be a personal choice.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-population-screening-explained
MW

145724 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #881 of 1950 🔗

Dr Sam Bailey on YouTube has some interesting videos on CoViD19/SARS-COV-2

145933 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #882 of 1950 🔗

Extra bit:

The validity of a screening test
The measures of sensitivity and specificity describe how well the proposed screening test performs against an agreed ‘Gold Standard’ test. In medicine, a gold standard test or criterion standard test is a diagnostic test or benchmark that is regarded as definitive. This can refer to diagnosing a disease process, or the criteria by which scientific evidence is evaluated. The actual gold standard test may be too unpleasant for the patient, too impractical or too expensive to be used widely as a screening test.

https://www.healthknowledge.org.uk/public-health-textbook/disease-causation-diagnostic/2c-diagnosis-screening/statistical-aspects-screening MW

145726 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #883 of 1950 🔗

BBC: Covid: Expect 6 more months of coronavirus restrictions, Boris Johnson @BBC News LIVE – BBC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DCILIZAGIc

145752 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #884 of 1950 🔗

Expect six more months of everyone saying “it’s only until March” followed by “third wave fears”

145772 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, #885 of 1950 🔗

It’s the presumption that does me in – though he is not wrong with Starmer in ‘opposition’

145813 ▶▶ Jules, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #886 of 1950 🔗

As I posted below, in response to an old contribution: The man and his Cabinet are a criminal gang. I wonder how close to total meltdown we are? I suspect that calling in the troops to keep us in line may mean we are closer to shortages and people going hungry than we think.

145822 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to Jules, 4, #887 of 1950 🔗

There was an article this week in the Telegraph – there are currently over 400,000 maritime employees stuck in various ports all over the world unable to either get home or leave due to government restrictions – the supply chain must be getting stretched

145988 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tom Blackburn, #888 of 1950 🔗

At least they’re finally being a bit more honest (it’s only for 3 weeks!) although I don’t for a moment think it will magically be over in 6 months. If it is, it will be back again next September…

145727 Neil Hartley, replying to Neil Hartley, 18, #889 of 1950 🔗

I saw a guy on a bike this morning wearing a mask, but no helmet. He’s the second in the last few days. Is he a sign that the majority of Brits are no longer capable of critical thought (not to mention independent risk assessments)? Are we doomed by their swallowing every lie they’re told by the govt and MSM?

145732 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Neil Hartley, 3, #890 of 1950 🔗

I rode my bike into town (no helmet) to pick up the car from the garage and ended up eating many flies – a mask may have solved this problem

145743 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Major Panic, #891 of 1950 🔗

Great things these masks, they even can save you from nasty head injuries if you fly over your handle bars onto concrete!.

145755 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #892 of 1950 🔗

LOL – there’s a half wit in the house

146442 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Major Panic, #893 of 1950 🔗

Ah, but according to govt guidelines you are supposed to wear a mask when not eating, therefore you wouldn’t have had a mask on anyway when you were eating flies.

145762 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Neil Hartley, 7, #894 of 1950 🔗

The cycle helmets are no more useful than the face masks.

145784 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #895 of 1950 🔗

The last time mandatory cycle helmets was suggested in the UK, sensible arguments prevailed (discouraging cycling, risk compensation, no protection against neck injuries etc). I doubt they will next time. They’re mandatory in Aus I believe.

145843 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to kf99, 1, #896 of 1950 🔗

Yes, even the BMA was opposed to making cycling helmets compulsory.

145815 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #897 of 1950 🔗

The big problem the boosters have with that one is that the safest two places in the world to cycle, – Denmarks and Holland have not made helmets compulsory – deliberately so.
US states that made hemets compulsory found that the number of cyclists went down when they did so, because there were less cyclists on the road, proportionately more accidents happened to them.
There are also a load of observational studies on risk tolerance and the margins car drivers give to someone perceived as vulnerae that argue against helmets as well.

145841 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #898 of 1950 🔗

Another problem for the cycling helmet propagandists is the fact that statistically cyclists live longer than non-cyclists, which means cycling is not dangerous; indeed, it means that not cycling is more dangerous than cycling.

145873 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Steve Hayes, #899 of 1950 🔗

Statistically and technically, a bee cannot fly! 🙂

146417 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #900 of 1950 🔗

Can it ride a bike though?
Micheal Bentines fleas could (and they were as real as anything coming out of Sage just now.)

145909 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #901 of 1950 🔗

This has always been my understanding and experience. Speaking as a Grandma, I don’t wear a helmet for pottering about the High Peak although I would consider wearing one in some (unlikely and extreme) circumstances such as downhill or cycling on rough tracks or even if I were to start bombing round like the clappers on a road bike.

For us lesser mortals, who use our bikes for shopping etc., learning to cycle safely – road positioning, looking round, being in the right gear, being assertive when necessary – are much more important than just wearing a helmet, which, sadly, will not save you if your cycling skills are dodgy. Steve Hayes is right, cycling as an activity is good for you – and that’s with or without a helmet.

Also, in Australia, cycling declined as a result of the helmet mandate: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000145759490006X

This argument occasionally surfaces (and rages) on cycling fora. The pro v.anti arguments seem almost as entrenched as Brexit/Remain! Of course there is evidence for both positions and you will always get people who claim their helmet saved their life and the opposite.

P.s. the last time I posted on here about correct road positioning on a cycle I got flak from anti-cycling motorists for getting ‘in their way’ so this time, I’ll take all that as read, if you don’t mind. 🙂 MiriamW

146433 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #902 of 1950 🔗

I saw an article by a Dutch cycling enthusiast who said we have to bear in mind some things about Holland and cycling:
1) The roads have been designed to include cyclists since the mid 70’s.
2) 99% of drivers are also cyclists and vice versa, which means a sense of proportion from both sides.
3) Keen cyclists wear helmets when going on a long tour at 30 kph+ but not when popping down the shops – again a sense of proportion.
4) Dutch cyclists in a group do not assume they have a right to stop other vehicles proceeding at a legal speed for that vehicle.

145728 annie, replying to annie, 27, #903 of 1950 🔗

Hi folks!
Another crack at a useless, nappy-loving jerk of a useless MP – Simon Hart:

Dear Mr Hart

I write as a concerned constituent who is wholly sceptical of the present hysteria surrounding Coronavirus and Covid 19.

Sceptics throughout Britain know from bitter experience that they are a minority amidst the hysterical masses who have been terrorised into believing that Covid is an indiscriminate killer that will get them if they voice a single bleat of protest, or perform a single normal action. I have no reason to believe that the situation is different in this constituency. Nevertheless I think that it is important that you realise that the grotesque delusions your government is peddling are not shared by all.

Experience reported by other sceptics who have contacted their MPs, to voice their concerns and communicate relevant facts, shows that the majority of such communicatio are either ignored altogether, or receive cut-and-paste replies reiterating the same terror propaganda. I have no hope of receiving a different response from you, but once again, I consider it important to stress that the entire population of Britain has not yet been turned into the terrified zombies that the government evidently desires.

I know that it is hopeless to raise such matters as

– the breaches of fundamental Human Rights legislation, starting with the forced incarceration of millions of innocent people, and now heading towards the forced medical procedure of administering an untested and potentially dangerous, and possibly ineffective, vaccine;

– the vicious cruelty shown to dying people, cut off from their loved ones, and the indifference to the suffering and grief of those loved ones;

– the abandonment of patients suffering from serious and often fatal conditions, including cancer ,which is tantamount to manslaughter;

– the tortures of total isolation being inflicted on the frail elderly in ‘care’ ( care ?) homes;

– the obliteration of human individuality behind foul and useless face masks;

– the conversion of universities into high-security prisons, with students under perpetual threat of solitary confinement;

– the banning of every kind of normal social interaction, and of the everyday work and leisure activities which, for most people, make life worth living;

– the obsession with unreliable ‘tests’, notoriously productive of false positives, which are then used as an excuse for further incarcerations;

– the misuse of the term ‘case’ to refer to a person who may carry the (possibly dead) virus, but who is not ill or infectious;

– the encouragement of snitching, harassment and bullying by malicious and/or weak-minded persons who are, or affect to be, convinced that their fellow humans are nothing but walking bags of disease;

– the ultimate outrage: the threat to turn the army against the people. Is Trafalgar Square to re-enact the scenes in Tienamen Square? As all the terror and repression have been imposed in imitation of the brutal government of Communist China, such an outcome is by no means unimaginable.

As all such appeals would be useless, I will instead appeal to your sense of political self-preservation.

Rumbles of discontent are already being heard, both in the media and among Tory MPs, with some of whom I am in communication. The full revolt may be long in coming, but when it comes it is likely to be abrupt and merciless. Please ask yourself whether, when justice is finally done, you wish to be on the side of the oppressors, or on the side of the deliverers.

Yours sincerely
[Annie]

145735 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to annie, 1, #904 of 1950 🔗

Brilliant Annie.

145757 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to annie, 2, #905 of 1950 🔗

Great letter Annie

145774 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to annie, 5, #906 of 1950 🔗

The list of outrages is getting too long to even bullet point.

145880 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to annie, 1, #907 of 1950 🔗

May he please listen to you.

146172 ▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, #908 of 1950 🔗

Boom!

146798 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #909 of 1950 🔗

Well said. Hope he takes note.

145734 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #910 of 1950 🔗

Excellent, factual sceptic lady on Vine right now! Recommend checking the replay.

145741 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #911 of 1950 🔗

Boy, was she good. Slammed Hancock and Bozo, said she just heard her mother’s care home is locking down for six months. Her mother is 98! “She wants to live”.

145770 ▶▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #912 of 1950 🔗

Just listened to it. Good for her for speaking out it was brilliant!

145851 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Sam Vimes, #913 of 1950 🔗

Does anyone have a link?

145881 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to nocheesegromit, #914 of 1950 🔗

It’s not up yet, but should show up here, it was about 12:50, so about 48 mins in, I think:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006wr3p/episodes/player

145737 Suitejb, 9, #915 of 1950 🔗

Hancock article/plea in the Telegraph. No opportunity to comment. Wonder why!

145739 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #916 of 1950 🔗

Question from a thicky…..

If someone has identified cv19 then it is identifiable.
Why can’t a load of positive tests be investigated (telescopes n things) to get a rough idea of the FPR?

145775 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Major Panic, 3, #917 of 1950 🔗

As a lot of false positives are caused by cross contamination so your method wouldn’t prove anything. Eg Your sample is tested then mine. You actually have covid but I don’t. If your sample gets mixed with mine then both will be true positive results ie they both contain covid, but I don’t actually have the disease and will get a false positive.

Also cold positives are true positives but contain either old fragments or such low quantities that when they try to grow them in a cell culture, they get nothing. This means they are clinically irrelevant ie the person is neither ill nor infectious.

145790 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bumble, #918 of 1950 🔗

thanks

145802 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Bumble, 2, #919 of 1950 🔗

It is extremely difficult to get this virus to ‘grow’ to see if it is live. You need very specialised cells and cultivation processes. The UK used to have such expertise in the PHLS – the public health laboratory service with a network of regional labs all over the UK each one specialising in different bugs/skills set up in 1946. The network was closed down in early 2000s and many with specialist knowledge and skills left/took early retirement. The PCR does not prove that any of the samples and strands of genetic material is active. Although I believe it is accepted that a big viral quantity is accepted evidence of activity. Hence the questions of regulating the numbers of cycles in a testing regime.

145906 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #920 of 1950 🔗

CDC cultures it to make available for research purposes. Doesn’t surprise me if we no longer have capability.

145959 ▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Bumble, #921 of 1950 🔗

Thanks Bumble. Useful to know.

145793 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Major Panic, 3, #922 of 1950 🔗

Someone posted a German language vimeo video yesterday (with English subtitles) that explains this. There is a vast array of different assays etc. used, and as I understand it each setup should be calibrated based on its own inputs.

However we should be doing what you’re suggesting i.e. taking viral cultures from samples that show positive at various cycle thresholds, and determining the appropriate cycle threshold etc. to use and the number of times a test must show positive before we declare is a positive result and include it in stats.

Of course the risk is that this would reduce sales of the PCR tests, so we probably don’t want to do that.

145748 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 7, #923 of 1950 🔗

SOME LIGHT HEARTED STUFF…

And they’ve got a new film out soon…

https://therealnormalpodcast.buzzsprout.com/

145750 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 12, #924 of 1950 🔗

China seems to be getting back to normal with internal flights getting back to where they were and the young partying all night as they should.

Has c19 been supressed to zero in China or do their scientists know something that our cso & cmo don’t or something else?

145812 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Major Panic, #925 of 1950 🔗

Suppressed

145842 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to stewart, 2, #926 of 1950 🔗

How did they suppress it? One suspects by simply not testing very much. Can’t see how else it can have been done.

146001 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Major Panic, 3, #927 of 1950 🔗

I did hear from somewhere they weren’t counting asymptomatic test results. If we did the same we’d probably have hundreds and not thousands of “cases”.

145751 Ian, replying to Ian, 12, #928 of 1950 🔗

I have just listened to the Channel 4 expose of the swine flu debacle on Dolans Twitter feed. Anybody remember it? I have no doubt that the lessons learned from that period have been dusted down- control the message via the media, shut off dissent, ensure deaths ‘with’ become deaths ‘of’ via media messaging and suspending autopsies. I could go on. But, then as now it just takes one journalist, one determined and brave individual to expose the utter nonsense and it will collapse like the house of cards it is. And I am convinced it will happen.

145903 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ian, 1, #929 of 1950 🔗

This is a great book on the Bird Flu Hoax
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Bird-Flu-Hoax-Pandemic/dp/0785221875

I am sure that eventually there will be great books on the Covid-19 hoax

145754 Pebbles, replying to Pebbles, 7, #930 of 1950 🔗

Is 26/09 Trafalgar Square actually happening and if so, who is organizing it?

145759 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Pebbles, 1, #931 of 1950 🔗

There was one this weekend gone, and the police were anything but polite.

145783 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Pebbles, 4, #932 of 1950 🔗

As far as I know, it’s going ahead. Certainly I plan on travelling down there. As for who is organising it, I’m not sure. Probably best to try and keep that uncertain as the organisers would be liable for a £10,000 fine.

145786 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Chicot, 6, #933 of 1950 🔗

I heard Hancock organised it

145810 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Pebbles, 3, #934 of 1950 🔗

The peaceful protest is going ahead, starting at 12, there are no official organisers.

146130 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Pebbles, #935 of 1950 🔗

Yes, Unite For Freedom and StandupX

145756 Kate, replying to Kate, 3, #936 of 1950 🔗

Can anyone update us on the anti coronavirus legislation campaign in Germany. Remember they had a huge demo in Berlin.
What has happened to that momentum?

145804 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Kate, #937 of 1950 🔗

There have been protests in other German cities since – obviously no media coverage. I believe an even larger Berlin protest is being planned for a few weeks time. Whether the Fuhrer allows it to happen is another thing – they have clearly forgotten their history with authoritarian governments which take away all freedoms.

145991 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Kate, #938 of 1950 🔗

My sources tell me that it’s a damp squib, and that the population love their Mother Merkel for protecting them….

146406 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Kate, 1, #939 of 1950 🔗

Querdenken are organisations based in all major cities and towns, operating independently, organising demos in their towns every Saturday. They get little media coverage, but are a strong presence. Popular is Dr Bodo Schiffmann with his channel Alles Ausser Mainstream on YT and now on BitChute. He has an almsot daily show taking apart the RKI numbers and politics. He is also a member of the Independent inquiry, members are doctors, scientists and lawyers. They are now an international network, and the lobby the government for a meeting and starting a discussion (Querdenken want this as well). There are lots of other smaller groups, the AfD is a little critical.
There are also some lawyers who are preparing a class action to Sue Prof Drosten, the inventor of the PCR test, and the person responsible for all this mayhem.
The police is making it increasingly difficult for demos to take place, at least in Berlin and Bavaria.
The opposition in Germany is very active, Bodo Schiffmann is starting a leaflet campaign.
There are a lot of non-msm journalists broadcasting on YT and telegram, one leaser is Bittel TV, and Samuel Eckert, although they are based in Switzerland, very popular in German speaking areas and regularly get a huge audience.

145763 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #940 of 1950 🔗
145829 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #941 of 1950 🔗

11 22 33, is that me or is that not strange Quomo (sp?). 22 “goes up” 11 to 33, Chances of all numberals being double in such a ‘random’ statistic.

145926 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, #942 of 1950 🔗

It’s a very significant figure in occult circles.

145767 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #943 of 1950 🔗

By current reasoning and logic if you have had the virus then you almost certainly will have contributed to somebody’s death.

You will be responsible on two fronts. Firstly for catching it and secondly by passing it on to some extent.

I could take this further by saying that as a society we have failed by allowing the above to happen at all. We are therefore all responsible for every death regardless of any measures we have personally taken. In allowing it to happen at all means that we are all responsible.

It may sound ridiculous but that’s how things are being framed.

145779 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #944 of 1950 🔗

Disagree. It is all being framed one way ie. Young infecting and killing the old. The reality (as we know) is that Edith probably caught it from Albert. As the virus has already ripped through care homes, where do people think the ‘new’ young cases have got it from? Their elderly relatives!

145782 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #945 of 1950 🔗

Happy to take full responsibility for every single one of them provided it gives people license to get back to normal.

145789 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #946 of 1950 🔗

Everybody who’s ever spent any time around anybody else has at some point passed on a cold that eventually killed someone. That’s just life.

146063 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Liam, 2, #947 of 1950 🔗

And by passing on a cold you ultimately improve other people’s immune systems as they react to get rid of it. As you say, that’s life.

145809 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #948 of 1950 🔗

By current reasoning and logic if you have had the virus then you almost certainly will have contributed to somebody’s death.

I’ve just posted much the same thing on some BBC hys. Load of downticks practically as soon as I’d finished … although I view BBC downticks as a badge of honour.

145834 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Miss Owl, 1, #949 of 1950 🔗

By current logic if Jesus ever had the flu (sorry I don’t know my bibles) then he was a killer.

And a mass murderer through the ages, because by logical fallacy your cough isn’t a targeted cough for just one singular vulnerable – your cough will echo through the generstions.

145968 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Basics, #950 of 1950 🔗

Original sin?

145781 DavidC, 2, #951 of 1950 🔗
145797 DRW, replying to DRW, 9, #952 of 1950 🔗

First time writing to my MP, here’s a draft:

Dear MP

I write to urge you as my Parliamentary representative to vote against the renewal
of the Coronavirus Act 2020.

This Act was introduced in March when we were facing an unknown threat and the response was driven by the worst case scenario. These predictions did not occur and there is now a growing wealth of evidence from our and other countries that these fears were completely unfounded. “The Science” used by the Government has been of consistently narrow, negative, deeply flawed opinions and some are now pressing for alternative thinking to be heard.

Several experts have signed an open letter calling against further blanket interventions
and to instead to provide the best care and protection for the most vulnerable, now known
as the elderly and/or those with co-morbidities. Continuing disproportionate blanket action is vastly inappropriate and will incur much greater personal, societal and economic costs for all.

At the same time, this Act has been used to implement unilateral directives without proper
parliamentary consideration or scrutiny. Former Supreme Court judge Lord Sumption has spoken about its questionable legality of this process and its dangers to democracy. This is set to include the most recent proposals, described by the British Medical Journal as “scientifically unsound”, also endanger our rights and freedoms. We have fought hard for both of these against past struggle and hardship and these cannot become more needless casualties of this historically, mild pandemic.

I join a growing number of others in having serious concerns over the Government’s judgement,advice and true objectives, most notably Sir Graham Brady, Chair of the 1922 Committee. Will you stand with the elective dictatorship of unchecked, destructive incompetence? Or instead with them for open scientific discussion, due democracy, civil liberties and the general wellbeing of your constituents?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Don’t expect much, but I can say I tried.

145800 ▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 3, #953 of 1950 🔗

And a jolly good try it us.

145857 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 1, #954 of 1950 🔗

Thanks, I will write to Brady next.

145879 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to DRW, 2, #955 of 1950 🔗

Great letter

145799 Awkward Git, 5, #956 of 1950 🔗

Now 408 pieces of legislation with “coronavirus” in the title – see pic.

Only 4 are actual Acts of Parliament or the dissolved Assemblies.

The rest are all Statutory Instruments.

145806 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 7, #957 of 1950 🔗

https://mobile.twitter.com/EdwardLeighMP

Some punchy tweets. Must read.

145817 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bumble, #958 of 1950 🔗

great stuff!!

145847 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Bumble, #959 of 1950 🔗

Is it worth emailing him RE: challenging the Coronavirus Act?

145899 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #960 of 1950 🔗

Not my MP but I emailed a copy of his tweets and just Thanks and please keep going.

145861 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bumble, 3, #961 of 1950 🔗

Had a quick look. Some of the more encouraging signs I’ve seen – He’s wrong with regards to Hancock though, he’s not in danger of becoming the Emperor with no Clothes, he already is.

145905 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Bumble, 1, #962 of 1950 🔗

Just emailed him to say thanks and more power to his elbow

145808 Kelly deacons, replying to Kelly deacons, 27, #963 of 1950 🔗

That’s it,boiled over now.Tried phoning Docs,after listening to the phone 111,999,try internet,anyone but us lark,I was left waiting for a response,twice,got cut off after waiting 5 mins each time.

Stormed round the surgery,buzzed,strange someone answered immediately.Was told to put in writing….

The gist is this,I shouted through the intercom,10 people a day dying of a bloody virus and the country&NHS shut down.etc.no response.I walked away loudly f*ing and blinding about the stupidity of it all.couple of people heard,looked uncomfortable.good.let them hear the anger.

And as for me getting any dirty looks from mask wearers,theyll get the looks from me,for colluding in this nonsense that has resulted in my govt threatening my people with the army.

145820 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Kelly deacons, 5, #964 of 1950 🔗

Better out than in.

145821 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Kelly deacons, 5, #965 of 1950 🔗

Pinning up polite notices with single hit information or a simple web address in public spaces can help. Chalk on pavement is a favourite with the current left leaning folk.
Good ways to help your own anger. Carefully, politely and respectfully.

145895 ▶▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to Basics, 6, #966 of 1950 🔗

I am afraid carefully and politely wont hack it anymore.

145913 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Kelly deacons, 3, #967 of 1950 🔗

You’re right,six months of doing that has achieved nothing.

145983 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Paul, 1, #968 of 1950 🔗

Stay polite, but also determined! Challenge them with confidence.

145908 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Kelly deacons, 3, #969 of 1950 🔗

The last time I called our surgery,had to listen to 3 minutes of recorded bollocks like you did,the gist of it being ring someone else,we don’t want to know.I was then told I was no1 in the queue and after 10 minutes someone answered,apparently they were ‘very busy’,no they bloody well are not,three locums and a nurse have been laid off.

146072 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Kelly deacons, 2, #970 of 1950 🔗

The NHS is utter crap.
I won’t ever clap for them again.
Granted, the directions to idle have come from above, and they are unique globally: no other country chose to furlough its entire health system to the extent Britain did, no other country stopped cancer screening or chemotherapies.
But it still takes two to tango and the lazy NHS staff is now very much complicit in this governmrnt ordered mass homicide.

146816 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jay Berger, #971 of 1950 🔗

Never clapped for them and bloody cheek of NHS staff being privileged with discounts, gifts, freebies and priority shopping hours.

The new Nomenklatura.

146091 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Kelly deacons, #972 of 1950 🔗

I think you’re perfectly justified in that outburst. I’d have given you a round of applause if I’d witnessed.

145811 Basics, 12, #973 of 1950 🔗

Standard reports poll showing large downward jump in public support the government’s handling.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/public-support-coronavirus-testing-a4554201.html

“The proportion of people who say it has been handled well has dropped in a month from 42 per cent to just 32 per cent, Ipsos MORI found.

The share who say it has been handled badly jumped from 40 to 50 per cent. It means a positive net score of two has been transformed into a negative 18 result since August, the worst recorded so far by the pollster.”

145830 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 25, #974 of 1950 🔗

I got into an argument on Facebook (I know, I was feeling particularly distressed last night) which culminated in this person telling me I was a sociopath, and that my views probably meant I had nobody to spread the virus to because I likely had no friends. Keep in mind that I had just told them I was against lockdown measures because of my mental health issues, which I have suffered since I was a child, and the trauma I have experienced and the many attempts I’ve made to kill myself. Also keep in mind I had made no personal comments to this person.

I was going to consider engaging in more debate but, as I told this person, this is no way to convince people like me to change my mind. I am usually loathed to do this but I flagged this comment to Facebook who have now deleted it on the grounds of harassment.

Sorry to rant, I just needed to get this off my chest.

145835 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to nocheesegromit, 8, #975 of 1950 🔗

As soon as you said Facebook I was worried. Ignore them. Fools. We will win this.

145838 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Andrew, 5, #976 of 1950 🔗

I’ve learned my lesson now!

145863 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to nocheesegromit, #977 of 1950 🔗

Time was when using a term puked up by the government or any authority was deemed deeply uncool to use in personal convesation.

The label sociopath comes from one who is struggling to make sense of their world and is reliant on intelligence short hands gifted to them.

145840 ▶▶ Julian, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #978 of 1950 🔗

Just shows that lockdown zealots attempts to portray themselves as holier than thou are often dishonest

145844 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Julian, 4, #979 of 1950 🔗

I’ve noticed this with other groups too. I remember a few months ago someone telling me I have no empathy because I stated right-wing and/or Brexit supporting university staff should not feel threatened by expressing their views. A bit ironic.

145846 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Julian, #980 of 1950 🔗

Not to mention the good old 77th! MW

145850 ▶▶ DRW, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #981 of 1950 🔗

So sorry to hear about your mental health. Unfortunately the internet is riddled with these arseholes, don’t try to argue with them.

145961 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to DRW, 2, #982 of 1950 🔗

Thank you.

145852 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #983 of 1950 🔗

No need to apologise – you are among friends here.

145894 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to nocheesegromit, 7, #984 of 1950 🔗

It’s got nothing to do with personaility traits. If it was possible to defeat this virus by locking down with no collateral damage to both heathcare and the economy and with a defined exit strategy I would happily make the sacrifice. But the damage to livelihoods and the indirect and direct damage to health far outweighs any threat from the virus.

146039 ▶▶ leggy, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #985 of 1950 🔗

It’s hard, but you have to let it go over your head. I got told I was killing people yesterday because I’d suggested that this might just be as fatal as a bad flu and that I was more concerned that UNICEF say that 6,000 children could die every day due to lock down and that the UN say 150m kids will be plunged into severe poverty. Amazing isn’t it. There are none no blind as those who won’t see.

146824 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #986 of 1950 🔗

Very sorry to hear what happened. Part of my opposition to the lockdown is also down to mental health factors and it widens the gap between the haves and have nots.

I’ve not coped very well with the lockdown especially the feeling of being trapped in a not so good area – the lack of places to go and having to put up with antisocial behaviour.

Stay strong. The truth will prevail in the end.

145837 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 18, #987 of 1950 🔗

Dear Conservative MPs

We can’t live like this.

We can’t plan anything.

We can’t plan anything for the next day because a rule might change and it will suddenly become illegal .

Your fellow Conservative MPs must be getting thousand of emails from desperate people with their businesses on the brink, with somebody dying of cancer because the weren’t treated while we were “saving the NHS”.

You and your fellow Conservative MPs have to work quickly to remove the Prime Minister from office before he destroys the country completely

Your constituent

145853 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #988 of 1950 🔗

Many psychopaths are extremely resourceful and charming

A complete lack of empathy. Unable to deal with failure or any frustrations of their ambitions

We see it in serial killers, and Blair was a typical example

The dictator and handy cock are from central casting

145862 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #989 of 1950 🔗

There is no point in trying to reason with them ‘ you can’t educate pork, but you can cure it’

145884 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Cecil B, 3, #990 of 1950 🔗

I remember an episode of Pointless and the word psychopath came up. Richard Osman said that it was reckoned that 96% of MPs had psychopathic traits. I believe him.

145902 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bumble, 2, #991 of 1950 🔗

It’s why these people are attracted to politics in the first place, like rats to a sewer.

145854 Philip F, replying to Philip F, 5, #992 of 1950 🔗

I have heard it quoted on BBC and by Dominic Raab on JHB – but can’t find source – that 78% in favour of new restrictions according to YouGov poll. Don’t know how accurate this, but this is what we’re up against. Most people in this country don’t value freedom and don’t deserve it.

145860 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Philip F, 6, #993 of 1950 🔗

An accurate Yougov poll, as likely as snow in September.

145865 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to nottingham69, 3, #994 of 1950 🔗

99% of you Guv polls are crap

145876 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Philip F, 10, #995 of 1950 🔗

Tweet from Simon Dolan
https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/NOMOREFEAR?src=hashtag_click

Anyone seeing those @YouGov polls – please make people aware that the polls are being manipulated. We are seeing massive last minute swings which we have asked for comment and explanation on, but nothing from them

Please share
#NOMOREFEAR

145890 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Philip F, 8, #996 of 1950 🔗

Maybe I’m being naive but I honestly don’t believe this. Also suspect the % of traditional Tory voters would be much, much lower

145893 ▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to Telpin, 3, #997 of 1950 🔗

Probably asked a teachers union in Manchester,

145897 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Telpin, 5, #998 of 1950 🔗

Polls are rigged just like postal votes. The public are far too trusting, sadly.

146959 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #999 of 1950 🔗

Postal votes are not rigged in the UK. And if they are in the US the answer is to sort it out, not moan about it.

145935 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Philip F, 3, #1000 of 1950 🔗

I don’t believe it.

146061 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Philip F, 1, #1001 of 1950 🔗

Polls are not designed to reflect public opinion, only to shape it.

145856 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1002 of 1950 🔗

Just sent this to the National Police Chief’s Council:

Sirs,

I do understand from your website that you are not an operational organisation and do not perform Policing and investigations but I cannot seem to get an answer from anyone so I thought I would ask yourselves because if you do not know then I don’t know who will.

There are increasing reasons to believe that there is treasonous behaviour being perpetrated against the Monarchy, this country and the 2 Houses of Parliament.

This has been since the first piece of “coronavirus” legislation that was introduced at 2.30 pm on the 10th February 2020 without Parliamentary oversight or debate (and the release of a statement on the 30th January 2020 by the 4 Chief Medical Officers of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland that was prophetic as it was not actually required until the legislation introduced on the 10th February 2020 and was instrumental for the introduction of all following “coronavirus” legislation) and now the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has threatened the use of the British Army against the population of this country in addition to the on-going and continuing use of the 77th Brigade in manipulating social media and the internet reporting of the “pandemic” backed up by using OFCOM to bully and threaten broadcasters who step out of line on pro-narrative reporting and the use of all MSM broadcasters to bombard the population continuously with psychological programming and propaganda.

Why do I think treason is currently on-going?

Well the definition of treason in the various pieces of legislation that are still in force and have never been repealed is different than that in a standard dictionary.

In the 1351 Treason Act it states:

“Declaration what Offences shall be adjudged Treason.”

“if a Man do levy War against our Lord the King in his Realm, be adherent to the King’s Enemies in his Realm, giving to them Aid and Comfort in the Realm, or elsewhere”

Definition of adherent:  A supporter, as of a cause or individual

In the 1848 Treason Felony Act it states as an act of treason against Person of His said Majesty, His Heirs or Successors :

“to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament”

Definition of overawe:

Transitive Verb

: to restrain or subdue by awe

Definition of awe:
1
: an emotion variously combining dread, veneration , and wonder that is inspired by authority or by the sacred or sublime

2
archaic definition that would have been in use when the Act was written:

a
: DREAD , TERROR
b
: the power to inspire dread

Certain persons in Parliament and their advisors are increasingly likely and can be seen to be adherents that are linked in an almost incestuous web of finance and connections to a few organisations and individuals who’s names keep appearing over and over again when these links are looked at even superficially and these adherents have given them aid and comfort (reported openly are billions of pounds sterling “donated” to GAVI and WHO amongst others and many “ contracts” for vaccines given to companies that are connected to these adherents and the organisations they are supporting) and both Houses of Parliament seem to be overawed as this is the only logical reason they are silent and so supine up until now.

So who do I contact to report this as a crime?

Would it be:

  • my local constabulary’s Chief Constable?
  • my local Police and Crime Commissioner?
  • Her Majesty the Queen?
  • The Speaker of the House of Commons?
  • the Head of the Defence Staff?
  • the National Crime Agency?

I look forward to your answer on who to report this to so that an investigation can commence.

Yours sincerely,”

If I get an answer will, post it.

145969 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1003 of 1950 🔗

Send a copy to Keep Britain Free

146461 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Rosie, #1004 of 1950 🔗

Will see if they answer.

145867 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 6, #1005 of 1950 🔗

Second AstraZeneca trial participant develops rare neurological condition following COVID-19 vaccination
https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-09-22-second-astrazeneca-participant-neurological-condition-covid19-vaccination.html

145889 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Victoria, 2, #1006 of 1950 🔗

More reasons not to vaccinate!

146059 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Victoria, #1007 of 1950 🔗

And:
The ferrets all died when challenged.
46% of trial participants developed neutropenia.
(High) Time to bin it.

145871 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1008 of 1950 🔗

I wonder what those people who said “Oooooooo, I like Boris” think about him now?

145888 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1009 of 1950 🔗

Only Guido has a few Bonzo fans, most have seen the light and would prefer it was now switched off!

146115 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella Donna, #1010 of 1950 🔗

Did my bit to convert them there!

146150 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1011 of 1950 🔗

We fucking hate him!!!!!!!

145872 Danny, replying to Danny, 26, #1012 of 1950 🔗

What I think I find the most demoralising about all of this is the way that so many people do not even see any of these continued invasions into our lives as a problem, simply because it does not directly affect them.
Well meaning, educated people who in all other ways care about people, yet because they believe that a virus is wiping out the world and have chosen not to check those facts in person, believe that any means justify the ends.
Case in point, the cruel new rules splitting up families from today in Scotland and perhaps here to follow. I have mentioned on several comments discussions such as the guardian today about how they will decimate families and lead to severe depression in key groups, especially grandparents. Not exactly debatable I would imagine. But no. The vitriol I received within minutes was all along the lines of “granny should get over it” and “why can’t they just use skype”.
It seems that in order to justify accepting these rules, some people cannot now even accept the damage they can cause at all. That anything other than a fervent clamouring for even more lockdown, is going to destroy our collective feelings of heroic self righteousness.
I just find it so tiring that people cannot even accept that this all just might have consequences.

145892 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Danny, 5, #1013 of 1950 🔗

I fear many are a lost cause now.

145896 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Danny, 8, #1014 of 1950 🔗

And yet we’re all expected to protect everyone else including these heartless people. If that’s their idea of protecting someone then I don’t want them protecting me thanks!

145874 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1015 of 1950 🔗

Which is the greatest madness of our time, the Wuhan lab flu hysteria, or wokeness? It’s a close call:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/23/mars-drops-uncle-bens-brand-racial-stereotyping-backlash/

145882 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1016 of 1950 🔗

I think they have a symbiotic relationship.

145957 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1017 of 1950 🔗

They are definitely related, IMO.

146028 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Bella Donna, #1018 of 1950 🔗

100%. Wokeness is a critical part of group think, political correctness and therefore suppressing of free speech, debate and even free thought. i.e. don’t question that official narrative.

145891 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1019 of 1950 🔗

You forgot Manmade Global warming, some suggesting that the response to the deadly plague faciltates their prefereed solution – a cowed, obedient and powerless citizenry.

145898 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Kev, 1, #1020 of 1950 🔗

Manmade global warming is central. ‘Carbon taxes’ are the means to extract wealth from the grassroots and transfer it to the super wealthy. It’s how they will destroy our society and us, by limiting available energy.
It’s what they are sneaking in under cover of everything else.
The corruption of academia and of education and logical thought, and the biggest Project Fear of all.

145875 William Hand, 14, #1021 of 1950 🔗

COVID Marshall at the Last Supper speaking to Jesus.
I don’t care who your father is, there are more than 6 at this table “.

145877 Bella Donna, 11, #1022 of 1950 🔗

comment image ?imwidth=1260

Alright lads, drink up or you’ll regret it!

145883 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 12, #1023 of 1950 🔗

It must be really dificult for some people to come to terms with the fact that David Icke was 100% spot on about this from the start.

145930 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Andrew, 2, #1024 of 1950 🔗

Whether he believes it or not, the worst thing he did was claim to be the Son of God and talk about lizard people.

145938 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to jb12, 2, #1025 of 1950 🔗

He worked for the BBC, he was having a nervous breakdown. He has at least dropped the godhead and tuquiose stuff.

145965 ▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to jb12, 2, #1026 of 1950 🔗

When you have done the Ayahuasca trip you’ll see.

145962 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Andrew, 5, #1027 of 1950 🔗

It wasn’t JUST Icke that have been saying this was going to happen. Lots of other people have been talking about it for years too. All crazy conspiracy theorists of course.

146792 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andrew, #1028 of 1950 🔗

I was as well.

145887 Suitejb, 7, #1029 of 1950 🔗

I have written to my useless MP three times, twice in the summer and again 3 weeks ago regarding the Coronavirus Act review. I eventually had one standard response to my first two letters but nothing from the latest.
I emailed Sir Graham Brady yesterday evening, he’s not my MP. I received an automated response this morning and a positive email from his PA just now apologising for Sir G not responding in person as he’s very busy but my email would be passed to him.

145900 john, replying to john, 19, #1030 of 1950 🔗

A rather amusing quote from todays DM, in reference to Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dums address on Monday:

“Professor Paul Hunter, a medical expert at the University of East Anglia, said the figures they presented were ‘implausible’ for mid-October.
‘It’s important to bear in mind that they were not making a prediction, they were presenting an illustration of what would happen if cases continued to double, which they almost certainly will not,’ he said.”

The two “wisest” people in the land go on national TV to tell the public what will happen if something entirely implausible might happen, but because it won’t happen we should not consider this to be a prediction of what might happen. But because this might happen further steps are required to prevent what we are not predicting from happening to happen. Then, the next day, BOJO the clown comes on TV to tell us that it is all our fault that what will not happen might happen, because we haven’t dutifully followed the rules and guidance put in place to prevent it, and now we have to follow new rules that are being put in place to prevent the non-prediction from becoming a prediction. Luckily for us though, we can be grateful that now these new measures are in place the non-prediction is no longer likely to happen, and we will have been saved from an almost certain catastrophe….

This is what they mean by “following the science”.

145923 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to john, 6, #1031 of 1950 🔗

If they had been illustrating in good faith they would have given a range of illustrations like the Bank of England do when they are forecasting inflation. But they weren’t talking in good faith, they are a pair of propagandists who think that you are too free and not as humane as they are. The worst kind of people, in other words.

145952 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to john, 4, #1032 of 1950 🔗

It’s great for TWhitty and Bedspread though. Since cases almost certainly won’t double, whatever dipstick measures they put in place can be credited with preventing their scenario. Win win.

146118 ▶▶▶ Mike, replying to A. Contrarian, #1033 of 1950 🔗

Exactly…

145901 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 14, #1034 of 1950 🔗

Sorry, had to take a few days away from the doom and gloom; I know this is old news now, but did anybody post the actual quote?

“At the moment we think the epidemic is doubling roughly every seven days.
If , and that’s quite a big if , but if that continues unabated, and this grows, doubling every seven days… if that continued you would end up with something like 50,000 cases in the middle of October per day.

That’s just made-up shit! And a prime minister listens to that?

145911 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1035 of 1950 🔗

Only 12 more days to go for their 2 weeks shit from a few days ago to come true.

By then hopefully it will be obvious that the data and science from Monday or Tuesday will be totally nonexistent.

145915 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1036 of 1950 🔗

It’ll just be two more weeks after then, like the crowded beaches. Or they’ll credit themselves for having “saved lives”.

145945 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DRW, 1, #1037 of 1950 🔗

It was 2 weeks from 6th September when we had that first, dodgy-looking doubling of cases overnight… No one remembers that now though.

145955 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1038 of 1950 🔗

Two more weeks, two more weeks, two more weeks…
No better than social media covidoomers.

145925 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Sam Vimes, #1039 of 1950 🔗

It’s bloody unbelievable…

145943 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1040 of 1950 🔗

If the sky falls in, it would squash us all flat as a pancake…

146105 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1041 of 1950 🔗

And if a huge asteroid hit the earth in the middle of October, we’ll all be dead.

146146 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Bumble, 1, #1042 of 1950 🔗

Maybe that’s what’s happening and all this is just a distraction so we don’t look up?

145904 up north, replying to up north, 8, #1043 of 1950 🔗

Response from my MP within 24 hours

Thank you very much for your recent email with regard to the recent round of restrictions.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. As I have mentioned in previous correspondence, I am keen to ensure that there is better Parliamentary oversight of the Government’s powers. The opportunity to do this will be when the Coronavirus Act comes again before the House of Commons.

My Liberal Democrat colleagues and I are advocating scrapping the Coronavirus Act in favour of better, stream-lined, legislation which is still effective in helping us tackle the Coronavirus but with more Parliamentary oversight and stripped of unnecessary Government powers.

145939 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to up north, 5, #1044 of 1950 🔗

Mine is Lib Dem too, wrote yesterday but no reply as yet. What worries me is what form the “better” legislation will take. It could even be worse.

146006 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1045 of 1950 🔗

Surely phase 2 of their plan for much more surveillance and control over our lives from afar by the digital “health passport”. And people will lap it up because it will mean fewer overt restrictions, and then it will be too late to do anything about it.

146017 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1046 of 1950 🔗

Dave Cullen/Computing Forever suggested that the health passport will be sold to the masses as the cure to antisocial distancing.

145907 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 12, #1047 of 1950 🔗

This is what I wrote to my MP. Part One

Dear F*cknugget,
I am writing to you again to beg you to vote against the extension of The Corona Virus act 2020. “The government has laid 235 Coronavirus-related Statutory Instruments (SIs) before the UK Parliament”.
https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/data/coronavirus-statutory-instruments-dashboard#total-coronavirus-sis

At regular short intervals an incredible number of new “crimes”, new punishments, more restrictions, more insane guidance and rules are created. In many cases it is based on very little medical evidence and is usually justified by the absolute abuse of statistics and data.

These often bizarre decrees are being imposed upon us in a seemingly random manner. They are usually just announced on Twitter a few hours before they come into effect. This as far as I am concerned is almost akin to the torture techniques used by some horrible oppressive regimes in the past, I need not mention them.

Just when it seems that “normality” can start to resume, another set of goal posts are set out. Yet another crushing, demoralising blow to the nation’s psyche. Another huge step backwards in the nation’s recovery from the viral insanity that now dominates every single aspect of life to the exclusion of just about everything else.

Out of all these 235 Statutory Instruments, just two of them have been voted on in Parliament.

The effect of these new rulings are very profound and are causing a massive amount of damage. What I am seeing is nothing short of a total break-down of society, everything that we value as a society is now totally destroyed.

The financial carnage that has been caused by these utterly insane governmental policies will be a catastrophe in the very near future. Already many, many people have already lost their jobs and there will be a tsunami of job losses as the furlough scheme ends. Five to nine million people will be without work. The government cannot go on paying the wages of more than 9 million people. The Furlough scheme has cost the treasury £35.4bn so far. This is just insane.

Imagine if all that money was spend on sensible things. How much good it could have done for society? A huge amount. It’s a disgrace.

I travel around the country and everywhere I go I see empty trains and buses running around all day long, city centres are just hollow shells, office blocks, pubs, restaurants and shops lay empty in every town and city in the country.

The incredible announcement from Vallence and Whitty yesterday that “cases” are “doubling every day” is just not true.

Data from the ONS released on the 21st of September showed an increase in “cases”, of just four of the nine areas of the country. This represents a decline on positive tests for Corona virus across 62% of the UK’s population. The trend is for a DECREASE in all areas. This has been the case for months now.

The term “cases” is a very misleading term, as most people who “test positive” are not displaying any symptoms or just some very mild ones of COVID19. A “Case” does not represent a hospital admission.

The current data from the NHS clearly shows this. To date there are 65 people in ICU and 449 people in UK hospitals with COVID19. This might seem alarming to you but out of a population of over 67 million people it’s quite insignificant in real terms.

Other causes of death and now even Influenza are outstripping the deaths from COVID19 by a very large margin. This fact also makes a mockery of all the crazy infection control measures we have in place. Colds and seasonal infections are running rampant through the population now schools are almost back up and running. Face masks aren’t stopping the transmission of Rhinovirus and other common infectious diseases.

145916 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 5, #1048 of 1950 🔗

FYI – as of today it’s 408 bits of “coronavirus” legislation with all but 4 being S.I.s.

145917 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #1049 of 1950 🔗

Feck

145921 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1050 of 1950 🔗

here you go the numbers listed if you want to give fucknuggets (I haven’t heard that word in years) another bashing, I looked this morning.

145980 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1051 of 1950 🔗

This is how they do it. They introduce new SIs so fast, that by the time you’ve finished typing up your letter, it’s out of date.

145910 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 20, #1052 of 1950 🔗

Part Two
I agree it’s terrible for those that are ill with COVID 19 but numbers like these in no way justify the current course the government is taking in it’s attempts to reach the unobtainable goal of “zero covid”. In my humble opinion.

What about the 200,000 people that are now estimated to die soon because they have not had early investigations for cancer and other serious health conditions done? What about the many many people that have died of heart attacks and have been damaged by strokes because they live alone and did not get medical attention? What about the now steep rise in suicides, especially of the young. I have personally heard of two 18 year olds who have killed themselves. These people don’t seem to matter.

The increase in “cases” is an artefact of massively increased testing. Not of an increase in people getting ill. Moreover due to the very low prevalence of the SARS2Cov virus in the community, it is almost a certainty that the false positive rate account for a very large part of those who are said to be “positive”.

As my MP again I implore you to vote against the governments re-renewal of the provisions of the Coronavirus Act 2020 for another two years. Please.

Life is just intolerable now for me and my partner. I have totally dis-engaged with society in every way. I have no social life at all. I miss music, music has been eradicated all over the land. All social contact is now forbidden. Every day is literally like a living nightmare that I still haven’t woken up from since late March that gets worse every day. The stress it is causing me and my partner is relentless.

I have never been so worried about my future and that of my loved ones and of the future of the United Kingdom.

I cannot face going out to see terrified elderly people struggling to breath through their face masks everywhere I go. People are universally miserable and psychologically stretched to breaking point. I have never seen anything like it. Life has degraded into a hellish dystopia.

Even the simple act of shopping is now something I do not do unless I absolutely have to. I will not wear a face mask. They are pointless and totally de-humanising and represent a clear threat to health and well-being. The universal compulsion to wear them is tantamount to a breach in the Nuremberg Code that covers medical experiments.

When conducting medical experiments, the Nuremberg Code states: “The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely necessary”. The Statutory Instruments recently introduced as part of The CoronaVirus Act 2020 and in force across the UK contravene the ethical standards of the code by removing free power of choice from the experiment’s human subjects. The regulations compel citizens to take part, against their will, by the use of coercion, social shaming and threats of significant financial penalties.

The Nuremberg Code also states that human subjects of a medical experiment “should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the element of the subject matter involved”, the subjects must also have a clear understanding of “the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment”. The contradictory statements on the use of face masks has not helped to give a clear understanding of their effectiveness or otherwise and there is no clear end date to what I see as a monstrous public experiment. There is much evidence now that clearly shows that the prolonged use of face masks is very harmful to health for many, many reasons.

People have been driven literally insane with government propaganda and a diet of relentless fear across all media platforms. Active censorship of any counter narrative is ubiquitous. The fear is palpable, especially with the more vulnerable members of the community. People are now more scared than they were back in April.

What I am seeing everywhere I go is now literally trauma induced psychosis on a massive scale. How can you allow this to carry on?

Please do your job and start standing up for our welfare. Other high profile Conservatives are now starting to offer some criticism of this current administration. Sir Graham Brady chairman of the 1922 committee, and Richard Draxx to name two of them. I hope this might give you some courage to stand up now, speak out and put the brakes on this run-away train! It still might not be too late to stop it before it hits the end of the line.

145986 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1053 of 1950 🔗

The “harm to the wearer” argument is I think the one to pursue now.

The libertarian argument seems to be lost, with endless clever replies like “your freedom does not mean the freedom to infect others with a deadly virus”

145999 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to kf99, 14, #1054 of 1950 🔗

It’s not even the wearing of a mask for me, it’s seeing everyone around wearing masks that is taking the greatest toll on me. I won’t be going inside any public building unless absolutely necessary and I won’t wear a mask even then in the hope it encourages others. The fact that people wear them even if they don’t believe they’re doing anything is seriously damaging to my mental health, my brain just cannot handle how others can be so non thinking and compliant.

146032 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Youth_Unheard, 7, #1055 of 1950 🔗

Yes thats the worst thing for me, it’s such a visible demonstration of how people are so totally brain-mashed that they can’t see the harm it is doing.

146044 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1056 of 1950 🔗

It’s a Gessler hat, at best.

146100 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Youth_Unheard, 5, #1057 of 1950 🔗

This is exactly how I feel. I simply can’t get my head around it, it’s frying my brain. Seeing all these people with masks, so easily going along with it, including my friends and family who I thought could think for themselves, causes me severe distress.

146136 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1058 of 1950 🔗

That is what I have tried to explain to people. If you feel the way we do about the masks just going into a town or shopping area is completely intolerable. But they don’t understand it because they’re ok with it.

146336 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #1059 of 1950 🔗

A fella came up to me in our local art centre ” hi Dave , it’s Roy , of course he had to tell me who he bloody was because all I could see was a black face muzzle ! oh I said , I don’t do those.. and off he went. How the hell am I supposed to know who he was ?

146037 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to kf99, 5, #1060 of 1950 🔗

The libertarian argument seems to be lost” Certainly this argument has become tougher, but I think it’s a mistake to concede the principle. Imposing things on others must come with a very high bar, if life is to be tolerable.

146045 ▶▶▶ Paul S Toms, replying to kf99, 1, #1061 of 1950 🔗

Until someone can point you to large scale field (not lab!!) studies, with control groups, that demonstrate the significant reduction of transmission rates with the general wearing of masks, i.e. AS people use them, not how they SHOULD use them, then I would simply put it back to your accusers to go away and keep looking!

146133 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1062 of 1950 🔗

Wow – that is a fantastic letter. I might use it in my next email. Brilliant.

146287 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to CGL, 2, #1063 of 1950 🔗

Thanks plagiarise away!! Glad you liked it.

145912 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1064 of 1950 🔗

Not quite as much hassle for our Welsh friends then [In England it’s out on the street by 10]:

First Minister Mark Drakeford said hospitality businesses in Wales must stop serving alcohol at 10pm from Thursday but people would not have to be “out on the pavement” at that time.

“It’s no further alcohol and people who are there will be finishing up and when they’ve had a sensible interval to do that then they will be on their way home again,” Mr Drakeford said.

Discussions are taking place with the wedding industry and public health officials about whether numbers should be restricted, he confirmed.

Mr Drakeford said he had asked for “any evidence” that having 30 people at a wedding or wedding breakfast had led to an identifiable spike in cases of coronavirus in Wales.

“If that evidence exists then we will have to act to reduce the number of people who can attend,” he said.

As to whether evidence exists that 30 people at a wedding leads to a “spike” – There is none. A brash statement on my part, yes, because I’m sure someone could manufacture said “evidence”.

145932 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1065 of 1950 🔗

Hey, I like the sound of this, why not also shut the pubs from, say, 3pm to 5pm, and all day Sunday til about 7pm? give things that quaint, historical feel?

145990 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1066 of 1950 🔗

Amazingly Drakeford seems to be continually dragged along with England even though it appears him and Welsh scientific advisers are about as convinced about them as us. However he cannot diverge as politically his labour supporters are most likely full lockdown zealots.

145914 Mike, replying to Mike, 1, #1067 of 1950 🔗

I didn’t even know there was a poll on this…who on earth are they polling in the first place? Is it the typical lefty bubble/echo chamber??

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/09/23/brits-support-new-lockdown-rules-many-think-they-d

145929 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mike, 1, #1068 of 1950 🔗

But Boris said it’s definitely not a second lockdown so what are they talking about?

146067 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mike, 1, #1069 of 1950 🔗

Your tattered slip of political prejudice is showing because you don’t like what you see.

Simple observation will tell you that this is quite a reasonable picture of the brainwashed response that might be expected.

(And no -m I couldn’t give a monkey’s about YouGov)

145920 Dave #KBF, 7, #1070 of 1950 🔗

Todays UK Column News is as always interesting, towards the end of the broadcast Brian G & Alex T go through who / or which organisations are behind our current situation, in response to a viewer email. Alex in particular gives an interesting response.

This link takes you to the piece about who or what is in control, but I would suggest you watch the entire broadcast, lots of good, but also disturbing info.

145924 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 8, #1071 of 1950 🔗

Don’t forget to follow the America Institute for Economic Research. Terrific articles every day that provide you with facts and arguments. Here’s a recent one about other people trying to make us responsible for their health:
https://www.aier.org/article/witchcraft-leprosy-and-covid-power-to-harm-as-political-weapon/
The Covid pandemic is mired in questions of responsibility and blame. In the heat of panic, we abandoned all of our prior behaviors and assumptions surrounding communicable diseases, instantly replacing them with a propaganda-driven “new morality.” In the ultimate switcheroo, instead of assuming personal responsibility for our own health, we are now encouraged to blame others for hurting us if they refuse to fundamentally alter their lives in order to “protect” us.

We ask them to give up everything they hold dear — up to and including Constitutional freedoms, means of making a living, and educating children — to participate in a concerted effort to “stop infections” which shall continue indefinitely.

This is the perfect formula for achieving total control over a society….. etc

145941 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Rosie, 4, #1072 of 1950 🔗

AIER have been brilliant and have provided some of the best articles over this. The best one was about the psychology of mass hysteria and how everything must be sacrificed on this altar.

145950 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Rosie, 2, #1073 of 1950 🔗

Good article. I’ve long been struck by the similarities between seventeenth-century witch-hunting and the covid insanity.

145927 George Marchaux, replying to George Marchaux, 5, #1074 of 1950 🔗

***ATTENTION ALL***

Please sign the following petition if it is all you do today;

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/313310

The Emergency powers bestowed on the Government in a time of genuine uncertainty back in March must be repealed on Wednesday. We cannot have or accept a Government ruling by decree under the guise of public health for any longer.

If you havent already, email / write to your MPs, express deep concern for liberty and democracy. Gently suggest your support for the Government is wavering and your vote at risk.

Remember the Government will only act as they do for as long as they perceive to have the support of the population.

I think Voltaire’s famous quote summarises the situation Boris and his cabinet are in today:

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

146013 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to George Marchaux, 2, #1075 of 1950 🔗

Signed.

146043 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to George Marchaux, #1076 of 1950 🔗

Done.

145928 Steve Jones, replying to Steve Jones, 8, #1077 of 1950 🔗

So what’s all this 2nd wave malarky?

I surmise that all the top brass Whitty, Vallence ,Boris, Hancock and Dominic Cummings, knew that all the evidence (seen so far) of a 2nd wave could be  down to false positives, and hence are opportunistically using the convenient  false positives to convince the public that the 2nd wave is coming on now. They knew they could not keep brandishing fear of the 2nd wave for much longer because the public were getting tired and weary of that excuse. So it was time to shit or get off the pot. And as chance has it, a small surge in France and Spain gave them the push for the exact timing they needed. So they did the very least they could  get away with, and made very minor tweaks to the lockdown but with great fanfare, so the public thought something dramatic had happened. If the second wave fails to materialise, they will claim their measures stifled it.

Of course, these minor adjustments cannot have any real bearing on matters, so we now expect part 2 of the plan to unfold, part 2 will be a gradual climb down from the predictions of a giant 2nd wave. As data comes in, it may  become apparent that the 2nd wave is a damp squib, then the top brass will claim that that their  efforts have averted catastrophe a second time; and in this stoppy starty manner, the nation will lurch towards a vaccine, without strenuous lockdown measures and Boris will hold on. Serving two goals, not further destroying the economy and making Boris look heroic.

So we now know that the secrecy and feined ignorance about false positive rate (fpr) is all designed to support the plan above. Top brass cannot discuss the fpr, without all sorts of probing questions being asked, so they all just keep mum and pretend the data is real.

Witty and Vallence would have gone for herd immunity but it is politically explosive so they have been driven to support the grand plan. To them it does no
 t matter, since herd immunity is quietly being made real, without fanfare and there are very few deaths or even hospital admissions. It is as good as it gets, all parties get closer to VD (vaccine day) and live to fight another day. Meanwhile needless evictions, bankruptcies and breakdowns surge on.

So that is where we are at. There is a conspiracy to keep mum about the fpr for as long as possible.

145946 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Jones, 1, #1078 of 1950 🔗

The whole thing now rests on the tests. This is why we need the likes of Heneghan to eventually chip away at this.

145973 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Steve Jones, 2, #1079 of 1950 🔗

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sars-cov-2-rna-testing-assurance-of-positive-results-during-periods-of-low-prevalence/assurance-of-sars-cov-2-rna-positive-results-during-periods-of-low-prevalence

Yes they certainly know about the false positives and have been changing their advice to laboratories, telling them to test twice when a) the virus is at a low prevalence in the community and b) the number of cycles that they use to define a positive test is at either end of the extremity of testing-either low number of cycles or high number of cycles.

I suspect that is why they are also claiming a shortage of testing capacity.

146193 ▶▶▶ Steve Jones, replying to Margaret, 1, #1080 of 1950 🔗

sadly, the link actually only has advice for when the hit is low quality, and does not, I repeat does not address: low prevalence in the community . read it and weep.

146040 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Steve Jones, #1081 of 1950 🔗

This is NOT a second wave, it is a delayed artefact of the first (and only) incidence of the virus. No Coronavirus in known history has ever produced a secondary wave of infections. It remains a possibility of course, but it would be unique and the first time ever. Other virus types, for instance the infamous Spanish flu, did have a deadly second wave of infections.

The initial lockdown measures were and are a catastrophic mistake, which guaranteed this phantom second wave would appear.

As lockdown measures were relaxed people were once again meeting with others, some of whom had the virus, or had been in contact with someone who had. The major differfence this time of course is that those getting infected were younger (below 60) and much less vulnerable, and perhaps with developing T-Cell immunity. This is why we see this rise in positive test results (not all false positives), but little or no rise in hospitalisations and deaths amounting to little more than statistical noise, and probably none of those dying “from” Covid.

What is my proof? Sweden

Our only response, once we knew the profile of the virus from experience in Countries like Italy, which showed it was most dangerous to the elderly and medically vulnerable, should have been to take whatever measures necessary to protect them and other people vulnerable through pre-existing acute and chronic conditions, assuming they wished to be protected.

And yes, sadly, a few hundred under 60’s might have perished, younger people do die from infulenza and pneumonia every year, but this has never, not once required social distancing, lockdowns, masks and all the associated social and economic devestation.

Outcomes could have been greatly improved by recommending people supplement, such as Vitamins C, D3, K2 and B12, Magnesium and Zinc, with D3 and Zinc the most effective. How many might have been saved if HCQ had been allowed as a prophylactic and early stage treatment?

Considering all of the above, this is clearly not about the virus, there has to be a wider agenda in play here, its inconceivable that TPTB are not aware of some of these details.

146053 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kev, 2, #1082 of 1950 🔗

the infamous Spanish flu, did have a deadly second wave of infections.”

Actually – that’s a much-disputed explanation for the following surge in illness.

146095 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Kev, 2, #1083 of 1950 🔗

The “Spanish flu” outbreaks in 1918 and 19 were very unlikely to have been the same virus. The Autumn 1918 outbreak mostly affected the elderly, much like SARS-Cov-2 does. The 1919 epidemic hardly affected older people at all (probably because they had pre-existing immunity to a similar virus before the turn of the century) and those who died were predominantly young and fit people. Descriptions of the clinical course of these younger deaths suggest they were caused by an extreme immune system response, the so-called cytokine storm. So to my knowledge, there has never been a second wave of any respiratory virus.

145936 Roadrash, replying to Roadrash, 19, #1084 of 1950 🔗

https://youtu.be/CGyWav_QLyY

im sorry I can’t edit the video. Interview with Dominic Raab on Sky this morning as someone below mentioned. Had to do a double take myself. At 8 minutes he is questioned about testing at airports. His response “ the challenge is the false positive rate is very high so only 7% of tests would be successful in identifying those that actually have the virus, so the truth is you can’t just rely on that”.

There you go folks, an admission from a member of the Cabinet that the tests are bollocks.

145944 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Roadrash, 2, #1085 of 1950 🔗

I think that applies to rapid testing kits only but all testing is an issue when there is low incidence.

146024 ▶▶▶ Ian, replying to Bumble, 1, #1086 of 1950 🔗

Well let’s ask? It’s has to look for the same strand, using the same labs. I’m convinced this issue is the smoking gun, we have to keep prodding and pushing it. Investigative reporter anywhere?

146096 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Ian, #1087 of 1950 🔗

Is the airport thing not about having a test like a pregnancy test kit, so you wouldn’t be doing pcr in a lab. Of course, pcr is probably picking up too much so the 7% could easily be the meaningful cases ie infectious

146002 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Roadrash, #1088 of 1950 🔗

Well spotted.

145953 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 19, #1089 of 1950 🔗

Here we go, Penny Simpson, a caller on Jeremy Vine today, bloody great. Skip to 48 mins:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000mq3h

145972 ▶▶ PD, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #1090 of 1950 🔗

Fabulous – well done Penny.
I was on Mark Dolan’s show on Friday – he let me talk pretty much uninterrupted for eight minutes.
I know most of Talk Radio have embraced scepticism.
Bombard the mainstream media.
Make our view a mainstream point of view.

Watch from 25:00
https://youtu.be/qbQ3kUw1nwQ

146000 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1091 of 1950 🔗

Superb. Well done her.

146113 ▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1092 of 1950 🔗

Go Penny! Spot on!

146093 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1093 of 1950 🔗

Wow she summed it up perfectly. Sensible Dorset lady.

146182 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1094 of 1950 🔗

Well done Penny, very well said. I’m actually gobsmacked that the BBC allowed her to say that, after all, they are the biggest fear spreading mongerers apart from Boris the knob’s government.
She is absolutely correct as we all know on here, but unfortunately, the masses of sheeple have just bought into it all. Hopefully more & more people will actually wake up here & see this for the utter crock of shit that it is.
Boris, if you are reading this, you are a total cunt!!

145954 ajb97b, replying to ajb97b, 6, #1095 of 1950 🔗

PROOF OF HERD IMMUNITY in UK now exists…
https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1308489526478766080

Also see the github link on the tweet if you want a high resolution version.

It seems obvious…  UK regions that had a significant outbreak in the spring are now NOT suffering a ‘2nd wave’ !!!

These data are scaled to the maximum case count per region.

In each region, a ‘wave’ of prevalence increase and subsequent decrease occurs, taking about 12-14 weeks. Once this has happened the virus does NOT return in that region. Northern regions are still in the process of having accumulated enough infections to achieving full herd immunity. But critically, they are all at least half way through the process. So the prediction would be that this epidemic will die out naturally in the UK within the next 6 weeks.

145974 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to ajb97b, 2, #1096 of 1950 🔗

There are some issues with this, it looks like great proof but we need to be careful, some of the twitter comments alerted me to this. They have ordered the regions by date of the peak rather than by region, so you can’t imply a smooth spread throughout the country, and each region is colour scaled according to its own peak rather than overall numbers e.g. if one region had a peak of 1 case this would still be coloured the same red as somewhere with a peak of 1000 cases. So that red line may not be the true peak at all and could quickly become blue if a particular region sees another higher peak.

Not sure that makes any sense reading it back… maybe someone else can word it better!

145995 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to A. Contrarian, #1097 of 1950 🔗

I wondered about the ordering of the LAs in an early post similar to this… would be interesting to see one where it’s simply alphabetical, or/and grouped by region.

146047 ▶▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to bucky99, 1, #1098 of 1950 🔗

It is true that one would expect a general correlation in terms of closely located regions having similar profiles in this graphic. But 3-D relationships cannot be displayed on the 2-D vertical axis. Nevertheless, there is NO requirement for such correlations to be strong or weak (or viewed in the graphic) for the herd immunity logic implied by these data to be valid.

I do agree that the issue of the amount of testing having gone up significantly over this time period adds some degree of uncertainty. This can be remedied by re-plotting things by % of positive tests per region as opposed to total count of positive tests per region. This will change the colors to a degree (they’ll become increasing lighter as you move to the right of the graphic)
but the overall trends will not change

145975 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to ajb97b, 2, #1099 of 1950 🔗

A bold prediction indeed. I’m wondering about London. They had a significant outbreak early on, but we’re now told they’re on the verge of wave 2 – of course they may well not be. It’s Khan that’s telling us.

145989 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1100 of 1950 🔗

I have a few things I would like to tell Khan in reply.

146054 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Tenchy, #1101 of 1950 🔗

He is virtue signalling.

146055 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1102 of 1950 🔗

London is NOT experiencing a 2nd wave, if you look at the percentage of tests that are positive !!!!

145956 Victoria, 6, #1103 of 1950 🔗

Young man injured by Gardasil files lawsuit against Merck as cases pile up

A lot of parents fail to realize that Merck has never proven Gardasil can prevent cervical cancer or any other type of cancer. In clinical trials, they did not use a true placebo to help mask dangerous side effects. Unfortunately, many Big Pharma firms use this and similar tactics to make dangerous products appear safe and rake in the profits at the expense of public health.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-09-22-young-man-injured-by-gardasil-files-lawsuit-against-merck.html

145960 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1104 of 1950 🔗

This is a very significant thought exercise. It actually aligns with some of my thinking in that the raw data that we see is not necessarily representative of the reality. In particular it is important to identify who is actually dying because they have been infected with a virus and not just because they have tested positive:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1308552081117151233.html

Say you have a completly harmless virus (IFR=0) that can spread at R0=3.3 and you can find via PCR for 19 days. How many deaths per million would you find if you test all deaths in an average european city?

145966 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #1105 of 1950 🔗

I really, really want to know this. It’s the sort of thing I think Heneghan should be onto. We need to know, for hospital admissions, ICU numbers and deaths, how many people are in hospital being treated for actual covid symptoms, and how many have just happened to test positive whilst being treated for something else. It’s an absolutely essential thing to know and I’m incredulous that we have gone this long without it being added to the stats.

145979 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1106 of 1950 🔗

Because it would possibly expose it for the sham that it is.

146033 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Youth_Unheard, 4, #1107 of 1950 🔗

… and, of course, it would require a complete re-ordering of the inaccurate data recording

146065 ▶▶▶ ajb97b, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1108 of 1950 🔗

UK data for covid patients admitted or in hospital include patients who tested positive up to 14 days before going into hospital for any reason whatsoever. It is NOT a measure of how many people are in hospital and suffering from COVID. So if the virus presence is increasing in a region generally, the fraction of patients that are +ve when going into hospital will also increase. Ie.., those data just reflect the Pillar 2 trends.

146076 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to ajb97b, 4, #1109 of 1950 🔗

My local hospital is doing all the normal stuff again so there will be patients in for other stuff who have covid. A contact told me on sunday that there are 2, neither of whom she believed were actually being treated for covid symptoms.

146126 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1110 of 1950 🔗

I submitted an FOI request to my nearest acute hospital trust, which happens to be Leicester, with the following query:
Please could you provide the following information relating to the pandemic. For the period 1st March to 21st August 2020 a) The number of patients admitted who tested positive for SARS-COV-2 b) The number of patients admitted who tested positive fo SARS AND who showed signs and symptoms of CoViD19 c) The number of patients admitted into ITU with serious signs and symptoms of CoViD19, e.g. ARDS, abnormal clotting, other inflammatory symptoms including gastrointestinal and cardiac. d) a breakdown of a – c on a week by week basis as well as total numbers e) The number of patients attending the emergency department ( both adults and children) for whatever reason for each week since 1st March 2020.
I received a comprehensive reply, which is too big to cut and paste as it isn’t formatted well enough.

146454 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to p02099003, #1111 of 1950 🔗

sign up for a onedrive account, upload it to there and post a link.

146111 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1112 of 1950 🔗

Is he actually suggesting that most (or at least a significant fraction) of the death toll of SARS-CoV-2 is attributable to natural death rates rather than to its inherent virulence?

145964 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 23, #1113 of 1950 🔗

A positive story for you all.

Yesterday I saw a friend who I haven’t spoken to since March, when we had a bit of a “disagreement” over the potential harms of lockdown. Have ignored her since, but she happened to be at a meet up with some other friends (there weren’t more than six of us before anyone asks, absolutely not).

And… she has changed her mind! Not a full on sceptic for sure, but thinks we need to start taking our own risks and decisions and the current panic is not merited until hospitals start to become overwhelmed. The turning point for her – a good friend died in April, not of the Dreaded but because of neglect and lack of hospital treatment resulting from lockdown measures (hmm, you mean the kind of thing I was worried about from the start?).

If she can turn, anyone can. She was one of my most zealous pro-lockdown friends to the extent that over the Easter weekend she posted on Facebook ordering us all to stay indoors to avoid the weekend of “peak” spread.

145971 ▶▶ Richard, replying to A. Contrarian, 18, #1114 of 1950 🔗

This is happening fast – in last couple of days a close friend with compromised immune system who has been stuck in flat since March is now out and about and openly sceptical of what’s going on – my 76 year old parents were on path but Monday’s nonsense turned them. A common thread for all was getting out and about and realising the sky wasn’t falling in and this isn’t the plague

146031 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard, 2, #1115 of 1950 🔗

Well – it’s not impossible that it will be like a breaking dam wall if and when it happens. But I have to say that in walking up from the pharmacy just half an hour ago, there were more masks in the fresh air than I have seen for some time – and people clearly moving over as I passed (myself making absolulutely no ‘distancing’ allowance on principle other than such defined by normal politeness). .

146149 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to RickH, 1, #1116 of 1950 🔗

The face nappies will be the last comfort blanket for the mislead.

145976 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 8, #1117 of 1950 🔗

Not quite getting the exponential thing

Our original lockdown was for 3 weeks. This then grew to 26 weeks . At this rate of growth our new 6 month lockdown will expand to 4 years 4 months

145981 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1118 of 1950 🔗

Ahh man, thanks for nothing

145977 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 11, #1119 of 1950 🔗

I think a boycott of Asda is in order.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54261861

145984 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Chicot, 5, #1120 of 1950 🔗

No significant mention of exempts – almost like that’s a “nudge” puff piece.

A national broadcaster happy to pump out support for Walmart. Incredible really.

145998 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Leemc23, 8, #1121 of 1950 🔗

Even if they allow for exemptions, questioning people on the door and trying to get them to buy a mask is a big step in the wrong direction.

145985 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Chicot, 1, #1122 of 1950 🔗

In the early days wasn’t there supposed to be a boycott of Sports Direct?

145996 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Chicot, 9, #1123 of 1950 🔗

Asda always are the biggest virtue signalling aresholes going,I wouldn’t shop there if you paid me to.
As Lee23 posted,no mention of shoppers with exemptions.This is another incitement for zealots to take the law into their own hands.

146015 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Chicot, 10, #1124 of 1950 🔗

No, a boycott would be childish. Wear a mask in Asda

Go around and fill your trolley with frozen goods as you usually do

If however by the time you get to the checkout the mask has made you feel unwell you will need to go outside to get some fresh air

Only you will know if you are well enough to resume your shopping and pay for the goods

If not I’m sure the staff won’t mind putting it all back for you

146021 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1125 of 1950 🔗

The problem is always that it isn’t the poor buggers on the shop floor who are to blame – they just take the flak.

146880 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Chicot, #1126 of 1950 🔗

I always avoid Asda like the plague. This is another excuse to do so.

145978 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #1127 of 1950 🔗

Man Who Jumps Out Of Plane Without Parachute Dies Of Coronavirus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy2IOf5qZZs

As a result of UK government’s statistical analysis of deaths in Britain is it possible for a man who jumps out of a plane without a parachute to be listed as having died from Coronavirus.

This is because of the way statistics on the disease are collected. Anyone who has tested positive for Covid 19 within the last 28 days are counted as having died from it. This includes a wide range people, including people who have heart attacks, terminal cancer and victims of road traffic accidents.

145987 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1128 of 1950 🔗

And it used to be even worse when there wasn’t a 28 day limit.

146223 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1129 of 1950 🔗

Agreed, my personal perspective on this is they should only count deaths inside 14 days of a positive test AND anyone being treated at their ToD for Coronavirus. i.e. 18 days after positive test but on a ventilator.

146026 ▶▶ Will, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1130 of 1950 🔗

The same applies in Sweden, in Finland, Denmark and Germany I believe you have to test positive at death and two doctors have to certify the death.

145982 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #1131 of 1950 🔗

https://twitter.com/federicolois/status/1308552081117151233

“Say you have a completely harmless virus (IFR=0) that can spread at R0=3.3 and you can find via PCR for 19 days. How many deaths per million would you find if you test all deaths in an average european city?

 This twitter thread is worth a read.

146025 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1132 of 1950 🔗

Your links are fantastic. Top top forumming

146549 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to swedenborg, #1133 of 1950 🔗

Yeah your links are an absolute goldmine.

145997 Derrick Byford, replying to Derrick Byford, 8, #1134 of 1950 🔗

Just sent this email to the Kings College ZOE Symptomatic study team, but maybe some of our more informed commenters here can answer my questions?

“Congratulations on your extremely important work.

I would be very grateful if you could help me understand your meaning of active cases, and how you estimate case rates.

I live in the London Borough of Greenwich. Your latest estimate is that we have 560 active covid cases resulting in a rate of 3366 per million people.

The population of LB Greenwich is 288,000. A simple calculation gives a rate of 1m / 288k * 560 = 1944 active cases per million.

This is about 42% below your figure.

Does this imply you are taking the numbers of active cases, case rates and population figures only for the 20-69 cohort? If so, as I will soon be 70 should I then no longer need to submit daily responses as they are not used in your modelling – although surely the over 70’s are those most at risk of serious illness and make up the vast majority of hospitalisations and deaths?

Is it also correct to assume you mean by “active” cases, symptomatic cases or is this an estimate of everyone who may be infected? Do you distinguish between very mild cases and those requiring hospital treatment and what is the median period of recovery for those not requiring hospitalisation? As we approach Winter do you have an estimate of the proportions of those self-diagnosing having definite covid symptoms and those having influenza or very bad colds (this presumably based on those who have had a positive PCR test, although I understand there is much concern about the rate of false positives)?

Many thanks for your help, and keep up the good work!”

146016 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Derrick Byford, 6, #1135 of 1950 🔗

You have put your finger on the massive confusion in terminology.

The term ‘case’ it an incredibly moveable feast.

To most of us it would be appropriately applied to somone who is clinically ill from a specific causal agemt.

But we know that it has been used to include everything from an irrelevant stray bit of RNA to death from Covid-19 – and everything in between.

146003 Alan P, replying to Alan P, 14, #1136 of 1950 🔗

So Morrison’s, Asda & Sainsbury’s all reintroducing limits on numbers and door “marshals”. And remind me why this isn’t lockdown 2.0?

146012 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Alan P, 3, #1137 of 1950 🔗

Because Boris said so, OK?

146048 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Alan P, 4, #1138 of 1950 🔗

Don’t think Sainsbury’s ever stopped. Well the one I occasionally go to didn’t. There was always somebody on the door taking note of numbers. I’m not sure what for, but they were always polite and never questioned why I had no mask on.

146051 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Alan P, 3, #1139 of 1950 🔗

Isn’t amazing how as if the restrictions weren’t bad enough that these companies try to outdo each other by going above and beyond what is required. Who needs the army?

146005 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1140 of 1950 🔗

https://cnecovid.isciii.es/covid19/#ccaa

 Very interesting two slides from Spain.Casenumbers and R. R is now below 1. The enormous second spike bigger than in March is mainly due to more testing.

146011 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1141 of 1950 🔗

Yes – but be specific. It is a ‘spike’ only in terms of positive tests – not of an active virus causing illness. The famous ‘case’ word.

146018 Mark, replying to Mark, 28, #1142 of 1950 🔗

Anecdotal confirmation for me today of my general impression that the government’s latest fear-mongering has ramped up aggression among the cowardly, and therefore division in society, even as dissent has become much more widespread and high profile.

I’ve never yet worn a mask, and have had no confrontation over it since the first day, when it was briefly mentioned. Today a short, light side of stocky-ish guy (small man syndrome), probably 30s-40s, made eye contact as I walked in, so I maintained it, suspecting what was coming. After a couple of seconds he worked up the courage to say, confrontationally: “do you have the right not to wear a mask?” I responded “none of your business”, equally confrontationally, and we kept eye contact. A few more verbal exchanges followed, with me insisting he should mind his own damned business and him complaining that I was being rude and aggressive. I don’t know how far he was willing to take it but I was prepped for violence if he pushed it to that (bit surprised just how angry I was, tbh).

Probably fortunately for all concerned (I don’t need a caution for assault) a sensible lady shopping next to us stepped in and told him he shouldn’t be asking, apologising to me on his behalf, and drew his attention away into arguing with her, following which he drifted off.

Could easily have been a violent outcome, and it would have been wholly a consequence of the government’s stupid fear-mongering and divisive policies.

146035 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Mark, 15, #1143 of 1950 🔗

It’s exactly what the regime wants to happen and every jumped-up moron is ready to do their dirty work.I’m amazed at your restraint,I am angry enough now to put someone on the floor if they abuse me,my wife or anyone else unmuzzled.

146060 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Paul, 5, #1144 of 1950 🔗

In fairness he didn’t cross the line into active abuse or physical contact, and nor did I, beyond the comments I quoted. But I was definitely ready to go, don’t know if he was.

146036 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mark, 6, #1145 of 1950 🔗

Good on the lady who intervened. It’s right to reply to these sorts, and practice makes perfect. Watching old SuperNanny episodes has taught me so so much about how to select the right words and right tone of voice. State the case in a low and slow tone of voice. Instead of ‘none of your business’ you could try something like, ‘facemasks harbour bacteria and you are putting yourself at risk of pneumonia’.

146062 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Rosie, 8, #1146 of 1950 🔗

Yes, she was very good, and probably stopped things escalating considerably.

I like “none of your business” because I’m not prepared to be making excuses to these people.

146078 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Mark, 4, #1147 of 1950 🔗

My go-to (which I have not had to use yet) is “are you the police?”
if the answer is no, then my response will be “then you have no right to ask me my reasons”

146081 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sophie123, 7, #1148 of 1950 🔗

PS if they ARE the police, then you I think you can say “I have a medical reason not to” (which I am not obliged to reveal, but it’s because I AM NOT FUCKING STUPID. And as wearing a mask requires stupidity, and I am not, they cause me great distress)

146101 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sophie123, 4, #1149 of 1950 🔗

Yes that’s an equally uncompromising but slightly less confrontational way of putting it :- ) In this situation, I quite like confrontational, though. Good to have a range of options prepared.

146121 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sophie123, 5, #1150 of 1950 🔗

Police can’t ask you about your exemption either. There’s no provision in the legislation. If you *refuse* you are breaking the law, in which case a constable, PCSO or government appointed official can “direct you to wear a face covering” or “direct you to leave the store”. They are supposed to use the ‘four Es’ before that.

146138 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1151 of 1950 🔗

Curious. How could it come to being asked to leave then? If you say “I am exempt”, what is their next move? without them breaking the rules, I mean

146259 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sophie123, 2, #1152 of 1950 🔗

If you are exempt, it should end there, you are within the law. If you actually refuse, i.e. “Sod off, I’m not wearing your mask..”, you are breaking the law. In that case, it should be ‘4Es’, ending in a fine if you really push it.
Unless the law has changed in the last day or so, which is entirely possible!

146142 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1153 of 1950 🔗

Didn’t work for that bloke on the train in Merseyside

146251 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bumble, #1154 of 1950 🔗

Right enough, it didn’t. But the cop was bang out of order. Of course we know who always wins, but I think Simon Dolan is looking at it.

146046 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mark, 7, #1155 of 1950 🔗

Don’t forget that the Commissioner of the Met is on record as fully endorsing and encouraging this behaviour…and Tom Hanks doesn’t respect you.

146064 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Achilles, 5, #1156 of 1950 🔗

The feeling’s mutual as far as Hanks is concerned, and the Dick as well…

146402 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, 1, #1157 of 1950 🔗

Good for you, stand your ground to the fuckers.

Wife said this afternoon thinking back on yesterday she should have just hit the sanctimonious weaker no matter his age.

146544 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Mark, 3, #1158 of 1950 🔗

I always pay attention to your posts on here, I get the impression our views are often very much in line. So I think I can relate to how infuriating this must’ve been.

I’ve also never had a confrontation, but in anticipation of it happening at some point I’ve considered carefully what I’d do.

I think I would force myself to be ultra sympathetic… agree that he is right to be concerned, claim that I am concerned too – and offer a sensible socially distanced discussion outside of the shop. Then offer to:

  • Ask how he’s found it… find common ground around how stressful this whole situation is.
  • Express respect for his willingness to stand up for what he believes in.
  • Exchange contact details, and send him links to the hundreds of clinical studies that I have read, including those that show masks can increase risk.
  • Reel off a list of the hundreds of opinions of virologists / epidemiologists I have soaked up, including those that show that by following rules, we increase the risk to the vulnerable.
  • Find his political leaning or area of self-interest, and attempt to illustrate how my actions are actually motivated towards achieving these same aims.
  • Drop in some big-headed status stuff to make him realize he’s not speaking to an idiot (e.g. “I’ve always been fascinated by Maths/Science… straight A*s/As in school, and now a senior project manager for multiple projects”).
  • Show compassion – lot’s of “Thanks for this thought-provoking discussion.”
  • Relay a few stats around relative risks.

It might fail spectacularly, maybe the best I could hope for would be boring him into submission.

Obviously knocking him out and legging it would be far more cathartic ha.

146020 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 12, #1159 of 1950 🔗

Success with an optician 🙂
The general staff were sympathetic … I explained that I have always had a problem with masks and that Halloween is a nightmare for me and now it’s like Halloween 24/7 for me, and that turned out to be a good way of explaining in a few words that they can relate to, so I’ll use that again.

The actual optician sits in a small room, as is usual, this time with the air conditioning turned up which was a relief to me instead of the usual stuffy. She began by being very difficult, have you got a mask? No I said yet again. I already forewarned them. Why are you here what’s this for? Etc etc. Was forced to lie about recent headaches presumably due to needing new glasses, but they’d have thrown me out as having covid.

She wanted my facemask medical exemption certificate so I replied, in a stout (not whiny/argumentative) tone of voice that there is no requirement for a certificate. No reply.

I said something about not believing it and she was on about how she must protect her own health and keep two meters away from me and can’t allow me to stay in the room for long. I replied “If you want to believe all that stuff it’s up to you.”

Strange to say, that did the trick. There was a pause, then she sat on her chair near me, then began some basic checks, and then proceeded to check out my vision almost as usual. The bit she was sloppy on was that she didn’t fit the frame on carefully so I can only hope that the prescription is sufficiently accurate. I should have said but was so surprised by her turnaround I didn’t say anything more.

146038 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Rosie, 14, #1160 of 1950 🔗

She wanted my facemask medical exemption certificate.

Where do people get this shit? A memo from head office or do they make it up to justify their own opinion or understanding?

Well done btw

146041 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to stefarm, 3, #1161 of 1950 🔗

Thanks 🙂 I heard that announced on a local train, so I was forwarned I suppose and ready with a reply (thanks to Toby and this site 🙂 ) so that might be her source. This is in London btw.
@ Paul – she was about to tell me to leave and not do any test.

146042 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Rosie, 2, #1162 of 1950 🔗

Good for you.How did she think she was going to do an eye exam from 2 metres away ?.

146104 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Paul, 1, #1163 of 1950 🔗

Magnifying glass???

146141 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Rosie, 8, #1164 of 1950 🔗

If anyone asks again to see your certificate e.g in a shop or cafe, then say that there is no legal requirement to provide one and one has to self certify. Then either walk out or if you want to get stroppy and make a point tell them that to ask could be construed as disability discrimination for which there is a hefty fine under legislation. Could you please have their full name and details so that you can decide whether or not to take legal proceedings against them. A bit extreme I know but will shut them up for sure!

146022 Edward, replying to Edward, 13, #1165 of 1950 🔗

Yesterday I went for another long walk in the New Mills area. (Hello to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG if you read this!) A week ago I mentioned the VERY LOUD announcement on Northern Trains after every station about wearing a face covering. On my outward and return journeys yesterday this announcement was much quieter, just about audible. Maybe they have had complaints from passengers, or the train staff have got fed up with it.

I stopped for an ice cream at a small café in Chinley. The assistant politely asked me to wear a mask, I replied equally politely that I’m exempt on medical grounds. She said that was perfectly all right and we had a conversation about different brands of ice cream. A bit of politeness goes a long way. If somebody barks at me I’ll walk out.

146052 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Edward, 3, #1166 of 1950 🔗

The constant asking from retailers about masks gets me.Surely they are still not liable if a customer doesn’t wear one ?,I don’t get a fine if a passenger won’t put a seatbelt on,they get one.

146023 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #1167 of 1950 🔗

No Lockdowns in Sweden, Really Why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CTfOGoazYM

During the swine flu pandemic of 2009–2010, all Swedish citizens were recommended to be vaccinated with the influenza vaccine Pandemrix. However, a very serious and unexpected side effect emerged during the summer of 2010: more than 200 children and young adults were diagnosed with narcolepsy after vaccination.

Source : The National Center for Biotechnology Information

146030 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 2, #1168 of 1950 🔗

Anyone able to post the link to the government study showuing 2 deaths due to lockdown for every 3 covid? Came out in July and widely cited here

I always find it hard to get to. Plenty of news articles which frustratingly never link to their source materials

146034 Sarigan, 10, #1170 of 1950 🔗

Excellent edition of UKColumn News today, well worth a watch:

https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-23rd-september-2020

146049 Mark, replying to Mark, 14, #1171 of 1950 🔗

Sir Patrick Vallance and Professor Chris Whitty faced backlash over ‘herd immunity’ strategy in March and asked for help to ‘calm down’ angry academics, emails show

  • The top experts made comments on herd immunity at the start of the pandemic
  • They then backtracked in emails to colleagues after uproar from academics
  • Herd immunity aims for most of the population to catch the coronavirus
  • It is controversial because it will inevitably come at the cost of people’s lives
  • But scientists are torn, with some believing it is the way out the crisis

This was how the UK was pushed away from the sensible Sweden-style, (correct) course it was originally planning in Feb/March.

Those responsible should be named and shamed, because they weren’t afraid to dish it out back in March, and they have caused massive losses including loss of life by their hysterical response.

146057 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Mark, 3, #1172 of 1950 🔗

I wouldn’t be too harsh on anyone who got it wrong in March, we knew nothing back then. I would be very, very harsh on anyone who repeated the same mistakes now though. If you can’t learn from the disastrous last six months you shouldn’t be trusted with a pair of scissors.

146077 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Recusant, 9, #1173 of 1950 🔗

I do understand this point, but I wouldn’t take it too far. Sweden demonstrates that panicking was not necessary, even back in March. These people are not your average man in the street, they are elected or appointed supposedly to exercise judgement and moral courage on the entire nation’s behalf, and very well rewarded in pay and status for it. If they are not judged by results then what are they to be judged by?

146135 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Mark, 3, #1174 of 1950 🔗

If they didn’t want to make tough decisions, they shouldn’t have applied for the job.

146079 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Recusant, 9, #1175 of 1950 🔗

I would certainly be harsh on the fact we ravaged care homes as a policy response.

146106 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Recusant, 9, #1176 of 1950 🔗

It was obvious to any intelligent person who was paying attention that the lockdown measures would cause more harm than the virus ever could. That is not hindsight. I said it on 20 March, before the lockdown measures were imposed. https://viewsandstories.blogspot.com/2020/03/coronavirus-mortality-and-fear-mongering.html

146140 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #1177 of 1950 🔗

Other oubtries locked down but still had other healthcare available eg France. Our closing of other healthcare has been so costly.

146119 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Recusant, 8, #1178 of 1950 🔗

I read a great article in Stat back in late Jan or early Feb about the likely trajectory of the virus.
In summary it was: it will spread, some old people will die, it will become endemic and kill a few more old and frail every winter, just like the other endemic coronaviruses. Nothing I have seen since contradicts that view, and it has always been very evident that trying to stop a airborne virus with a contagious presymptomatic phase is a folly. An economically damaging folly.

The only new piece of info I have since then is good news: T cell immunity means most of us won’t catch it.

So everybody chill.

(but of course that’s not what happened….EVERYBODY PANIC LIKE A LUNATIC AND SHUT THE WORLD DOWN!!!)

146128 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 7, #1179 of 1950 🔗

It is controversial because it will inevitably come at the cost of people’s lives”

They keep pushing this line – it’s nonsense. There’s NO approach that can prevent every single death, assuming it’s a virus than can kill. All approaches have costs and benefits. I’m not even sure if herd immunity is a strategy, as such. It’s more a natural consequence of how viruses work, and it’s the only point at which you can say that it’s over. The “strategy” is how you get to herd immunity doing the least damage. The “controversial” approach is what China, Italy and many other countries adopted – untried, no cost benefit analysis, no thinking through of the consequences or how it could be made to end. Sweden’s approach was the “normal”, textbook approach.

146278 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #1180 of 1950 🔗

Indeed. It was always an infantile position, like the closely related “money over lives” issue.

146056 Kev, replying to Kev, 16, #1181 of 1950 🔗

This is NOT a second wave, it is a delayed artefact of the first (and only) incidence of the virus. No Coronavirus in known history has ever produced a secondary wave of infections. It remains a possibility of course, but it would be unique and the first time ever. Other virus types, for instance the infamous Spanish flu, did have a deadly second wave of infections.
The initial lockdown measures were and are a catastrophic mistake, which guaranteed this phantom second wave would appear.

As lockdown measures were relaxed people were once again meeting with others, some of whom had the virus, or had been in contact with someone who had. The major differfence this time of course is that those getting infected were younger (below 60) and much less vulnerable, and perhaps with developing T-Cell immunity. This is why we see this rise in positive test results (not all false positives), but little or no rise in hospitalisations and deaths amounting to little more than statistical noise, and probably none of those dying “from” Covid.

What is my proof? Sweden

Our only response, once we knew the profile of the virus from experience in Countries like Italy, which showed it was most dangerous to the elderly and medically vulnerable, should have been to take whatever measures necessary to protect them and other people vulnerable through pre-existing acute and chronic conditions, assuming they wished to be protected.

And yes, sadly, a few hundred under 60’s might have perished, younger people do die from infulenza and pneumonia every year, but this has never, not once required social distancing, lockdowns, masks and all the associated social and economic devestation.
Outcomes could have been greatly improved by recommending people supplement, such as Vitamins C, D3, K2 and B12, Magnesium and Zinc, with D3 and Zinc the most effective. How many might have been saved if HCQ had been allowed as a prophylactic and early stage treatment?

Considering all of the above, this is clearly not about the virus, there has to be a wider agenda in play here, its inconceivable that TPTB are not aware of some of these details.

146068 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Kev, #1182 of 1950 🔗

https://nitrocdn.com/PtUefQrfncdsWOjilqcqdvGyQbUvpoWC/assets/desktop/optimized/rev-1754fb7/media/bbd2930e3d1aac383aebf52f50803d88.EiebyEDUwAAPjg6

Comparing what Los Angeles governor did, with what Sweden didn’t do, and the results, specifically no second wave.

That was meant to be an image, but ended up being a link!

146087 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Fiat, 3, #1184 of 1950 🔗

I read a few paragraphs and had to close it down before I vomited onto my keyboard.

146157 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to Fiat, 3, #1185 of 1950 🔗

“policy of driving this virus down”. There you have it; that is their abstract aim. So, either (a) the virus will go down and they will be vindicated by the zombies, or, (b) the virus will not go down, in which case the zombies will support more Communist Chinese measures in the UK.

146069 Dave #KBF, 15, #1186 of 1950 🔗

Interesting guest on TalkRADIO at the moment, Ian Howarth – Founder of The Cult Information Centre.

He is talking about how peoples minds can be turned in a very short space of time to become part of a cult.

146070 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, #1187 of 1950 🔗

Could anyone answer a question for me please?. I have read a lot of comments saying that there is now a DNR put on the over 60’s in hospital. I have tried to find evidence of this being factual but don’t seem to be able to find anything. Is this just fake news as is often the case or scarily true?.

146092 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mrs issedoff, 3, #1188 of 1950 🔗

I’m guessing fake news.

146373 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, #1189 of 1950 🔗

My wife was asked by GP’s surgery about agreeing to a DNR “just in case” (got short answer even though we have discussed it and agreed not to let the other suffer but to DNR if appropriate at the time – our choice at the time) and I know a few people their elderly parents were bombarded by GPs asking if they agreed as well.

146110 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Mrs issedoff, 8, #1190 of 1950 🔗

Categorically not true.

A DNACPR can be placed on a patient by a senior physician if there is little chance of the patient surviving CPR/Basic Life Support, this can happen to any patient of any age, it is usually in the resuscitation room(where blue light ambulances take their patients) or in ITU. A DNACPR can be open ended, usually for those approaching end of life (not necessarily elderly it could be a child) where it is not in the patients best interest to attempt CPR as it would be futile.
Other DNACPRs can be temporary with a review date, where the order can be closed or extended. These are usually put in place if the patient has a temporary condition where CPR wouldn’t be in their best interests.
Where possible the patient is included in the decision making, but they don’t have to be.
To put a DNACPR on every person over 60 would be illegal on the grounds of age alone. It would also go against the provisions of the mental capacity act. Finally it would go against the NMC code of professional conduct for nurses and the GMC code for doctors. It could also be considered manslaughter or even murder.

146139 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, #1191 of 1950 🔗

Thank you for your replies. I did think this was going a bit far even for this shower in government!.

146226 ▶▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Mrs issedoff, 1, #1192 of 1950 🔗

In care homes, it certainly has happened. Simon Dolan has published evidence that some homes did put DNR orders on patients over a certain age, apparently prior to obtaining any relatives’ consent. It has been rumoured that some homes did this for different categories of people with severe handicaps/illnesses too, though not sure if that is definite.

146386 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mrs issedoff, -1, #1193 of 1950 🔗

I don’t think it’s a cut-and-dried issue. It’s not here now but they are nudging us towards it.

146080 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 17, #1194 of 1950 🔗

How much more bizarre and insane can things get (from the Telegraph live feed):

One-night stands and other types of casual sex have not been banned under the Government’s latest set of restrictions, Downing Street has said.
Gatherings of up to six people are legal in non-local-lockdown areas, however people from different households are required to stay two metres apart.
The guidance says people should “stay two metres apart from people you do not live with where possible, or one metre with extra precautions.”
It adds: “If in the early stages of a relationship, you should take particular care to follow the guidance on social distancing.
“If you intend to have close contact with someone, you should discuss how you can help to prevent risks of transmission as a couple, for example, by ensuring you are both avoiding close contact with people you do not live with.”
But this afternoon Downing Street further backed down on banning sex between consenting adults.
Asked if one-night stands had been outlawed under the latest restrictions, the Prime Minister’s spokesman said: “That is not an area where any announcement has been made pertaining to that law.”
He also confirmed that christenings would be subject to the rule of six, including the baby, despite weddings and funerals being capped at 15 and 30 people respectively.

Specifically:

It adds: “If in the early stages of a relationship, you should take particular care to follow the guidance on social distancing.”

Bloody nutcases!

On the subject of christenings; so there’s the baby, the priest, the parents and two godparents. That’s your lot! If you’ve got any other children – tough!

146108 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 10, #1195 of 1950 🔗

Imposed after his own child’s christening. There again, do we know for certain he was actually there? He certainly doesn’t know how many siblings Wilfred has!

146173 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1196 of 1950 🔗

“But this afternoon Downing Street further backed down on banning sex between consenting adults.”

Was this even considered?! Then again, in the current insanity, I guess anythings possible.

146201 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Chicot, -2, #1197 of 1950 🔗

Well – always remember in the raging about ‘wokeness’, ‘cancelling’ and social censoriousness that it all kicked off under Thatcher and her mate Mary Shitehouse. 🙂 (Frank Furedi is interesting on this cross-political issue in ‘The Culture of Fear’)

146083 Basics, 6, #1198 of 1950 🔗

Uk Column today.
An absolutely epic hour of analysis that covers so much that has being/is being discussed on LS. Thoroughly reccomend to everyone today.

https://youtu.be/VEjDYWbir-k

There is a fascinating section about the collapse of local councils in England and Wales.

146084 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 15, #1199 of 1950 🔗

Piers Corbyn:

Immediate Brexit
No Covid Lockdown
No Climate Change nonsense.

Get arrested every weekend for his views

Boris Johnson

Dither and delay Brexit
Covid Lockdown
Complete Climate Change nonsense

Says he’ll “rather die in a ditch” – but sent the surrender letter to the EU anyway

146125 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1200 of 1950 🔗

That said, I don’t want Piers Corbyn as PM !

146184 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bumble, 2, #1201 of 1950 🔗

Or even my weather forecaster for that matter!

146375 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to OKUK, #1202 of 1950 🔗

I remember once Boris wrote an article in support of Piers weather forecasting- shame I can’t find it

146192 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #1204 of 1950 🔗

No – but we got the well-known laying psychopath, even tho’ it was known he was a ‘nasty piece of work’ to anyone paying attention. Piers Corbyn could not have been as dangerous – even if not a choice!

146088 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #1205 of 1950 🔗

The root cause of the problem is the treatment of the whole thing by all politicians and journos and by most of the public as an international and national competition, measured by their comparative position on some in truth mostly flawed and incomparable ranking tables.

146160 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to Jay Berger, #1206 of 1950 🔗

yes, a vanity show

146089 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 4, #1207 of 1950 🔗

http://tapnewswire.com/2020/08/fda-nears-approval-of-injectable-biochip-implants-for-covid-detection-linked-to-computers/

“A permanent chip made of an advanced material called hydrogel irreversibly ties humans to the Internet “cloud.” The chip, about the size of a grain of rice, provides feedback to a database on changes in body chemistry and other biometrics. The company says technology will be used to detect COVID in the general population, before symptoms show.”

146107 ▶▶ Jack, replying to Humanity First, 5, #1208 of 1950 🔗

All our friends involved in this one:

The Department of Defense, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, have partnered with a Silicon Valley company, Profusa , to implement a technology which could control our minds and bodies. What may seem like science fiction, is in fact happening in real-time.

Profusa is also working on research with Imperial College, another benefactor of Gates largess in the area of vaccinations. Imperial College is the institution from which sprang the ill-fated study by Professor Neil Ferguson which predicted over 2.2 million dead in the US without social distancing.

146109 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Jack, 3, #1209 of 1950 🔗

And “mandatory vaccination”, of course.

146185 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jack, 7, #1210 of 1950 🔗

Our main problem seems to be dealing with sociopaths rather than a virus.

146178 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Humanity First, 3, #1211 of 1950 🔗

I think when we read stuff like this we should accept that it’s no longer good enough to shout “conspiracy theory!” as a way of closing down debate. People like Gates seem to have no conception of what freedom is and why it is important for human beings.

146250 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to OKUK, 3, #1212 of 1950 🔗

For many people shouting “conspiracy theory” seems to be a coping mechanism to blind themselves to the consequences of the evidence because they are too unpleasant/uncomfortable to contemplate.

Gates and others of his ilk are psychopaths with no human feelings or hearts.

146102 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 14, #1213 of 1950 🔗

Common sense starting in Belgium? Drifting to the UK? Small steps but right direction
https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/132481/belgiums-security-council-introduces-long-term-coronavirus-strategy/

The authorities are working on an “ epidemic barometer ” at a national, provincial and regional level, to make sure that everyone understands the course of the epidemic better. The levels will be determined mainly – but not exclusively – by the number of people admitted to hospital.
From 1 October, face masks will only be mandatory in crowded places , as well as on public transport and in cinemas, for example. “It is useless to make masks compulsory anytime, anywhere,” Wilmès said, calling on local authorities to comply with the change, and not keep the rule in unnecessary places.
And they has imitated France.Quarantaine now only 7 days.

Boris J is said to have looked at Belgium before.

146116 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to swedenborg, 14, #1214 of 1950 🔗

Just seen this on Twitter. It says that Belgium will no longer rely on the PCR tests to define the epidemic but will rely on hospitalisations instead. I can’t see this in the article attached to this tweet, however.

Ciarán Murray on Twitter: “A victory for PCR truthers? Belgium just announced that PCR tests will no longer be relied upon as a guage of the prevalence of the virus, hospitalisations will. Despite (apparent) rising cases, masks no longer mandated outdoors. https://t.co/GGe7PKnw4r ” / Twitter

146122 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1215 of 1950 🔗

Hoping that if the rest of the world is unlocked, pressure will force the UK government to do the same.

146127 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1216 of 1950 🔗

Woah! Is this the first reining in of the lunacy since the Norwegians admitted closing schools was a mistake?

146165 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1217 of 1950 🔗

Mask wearing is disease spreading…if you tested the average mask, you’d find it was a veritable barnyard of pathogens. These aren’t surgical masks so there is no evidence that if you sneeze or cough the virus isn’t released into the air. In any case it is anti social to be out and about if you are coughing and sneezing. Stay at home.

Masks encourage complacency about social distancing and hand washing. People are forever fiddling with them and will transfer large virus loads to their fingers if they have Covid. We should not accept any mandatory mask wearing and we should not even encourage people to wear them.

We need a comprehensive investigation into their impact conducted by honest and independent scientists (a breed nearing extinction). The investigation must be in real world conditions e.g. most men carry masks in their pockets and most women in their bags. I suspect the vast majority of people don’t change their masks for days on end.

146186 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to OKUK, 3, #1218 of 1950 🔗

Germans are on it:

German children’s charity test child’s mask after being worn in school
for 8 hours. 82 bacterial colonies and 4 mould (fungal) colonies.

https://twitter.com/mattlarby/status/1307441238799462406

146177 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 9, #1219 of 1950 🔗

All the above is good news.

But we must never lose sight of the fact that, in worse infection seasons, all this crap was not even on the agenda. We managed equally severe or worse infections with hardly a blink.

Yes – sometimes a bit more informed caution might have been wise, but society managed perfectly well. And people made their own decisions.

146280 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to swedenborg, #1220 of 1950 🔗

They only follow tightening of restrictions, not relaxing.

146117 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #1221 of 1950 🔗

Sweden : The Last Bastion Of Sanity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI6M4ExbOgY&list=WL&index=83

Video by Your Ontario Doctors

146120 Bumble, 6, #1222 of 1950 🔗

My local rag is reporting that after a short sharp burst in cases, everything in Dorset is on the way down again.

146123 Monty Bodkin, replying to Monty Bodkin, 16, #1223 of 1950 🔗

I can’t find the earlier LS post which linked to the BBC’s news item concerning increased mask enforcement in Asda. I looked at the item and then read the comments below. Here’s one of them (with the English tidied up a bit):

“470. Posted by Jack Tripper
 If you see someone not wearing a mask in a public place, you should take a picture and put it on social media.
Perhaps the authorities need to start a ‘Show and Shame’ by showing pictures of those not following guidelines.
How about when the PM is speaking on TV, have pictures of rule breakers scroll along the bottom of the screen?”

Boris won’t need the army while he’s got people like that on his side.

146132 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Monty Bodkin, 8, #1224 of 1950 🔗

Currently reading about Stalin and his antics. He would have been very proud of Jack…

146147 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Monty Bodkin, 10, #1225 of 1950 🔗

Even better idea, post Jacks home address on social media, so a few of his new friends can give him a visit.

146162 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Monty Bodkin, 4, #1226 of 1950 🔗

BBC had to open a HYS about this didn’t they. Soon it will be masks outside and the majority will comply.

146813 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Monty Bodkin, 1, #1227 of 1950 🔗

Why is this on here? .There’s clearly a few people on this site worried about being bullied so what is the point of frightening them even more .Who gives two shits about an idiots comment somewhere or other ,the law is clear if you are exempt there’s nothing anyone can do . If anybody makes a comment to you while shopping that makes you feel you’re being bullied and you find it hard to stick up for yourself i would suggest you go straight to a member of staff in the shop and explain that a person is harassing you .

146958 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Monty Bodkin, 1, #1228 of 1950 🔗

470. Posted by Jack Tripper

And that, children, is why you should know what you’re doing before taking LSD.

146124 JYC, replying to JYC, 22, #1229 of 1950 🔗

I used to think Britain was a country where people showed courage in the face of adversity and which would actually think about how others are affected by our actions. Now, we have a public that will simply succumb to the fear that the worse might happen, and if that means that some of the lonely and elderly are neglected, or that businesses go bust, or that some children grow up with a fear of others, then all that is fine and acceptable. Where did our country go?

146144 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JYC, 13, #1230 of 1950 🔗

I used to think Britain was a country where people showed courage in the face of adversity

This was our self-image. Keep calm and carry on. Stiff upper lip. Sturdy self reliance. Our home is our castle, be it ever so humble

Turns out if it was ever true, it isn’t any more. Now we are a nation of “Panic, run and hide, and do whatever nanny state says in the desperate hope of being a tiny bit safer from a tiny risk.”

These changes for the worse to our core culture occurred during the C20th I think.

146175 ▶▶▶ JYC, replying to Mark, 4, #1231 of 1950 🔗

Yes, I think you’re right, sadly.

146258 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #1232 of 1950 🔗

Well – I agree with you on this.

I have always had an emotional tie to the two generations before me that did actually put their money where their mouth was in terms of resisting totalitarianism – and meaning it.

But I’ve often wondered what would have happened in c. 1940 had the Channel not been there. Would the blithe self-satisfaction have held up under the pressures suffered by countries like Poland? I really don’t know – but my guess is that the real resistance would have been the minority – particularly noting that individuals of the establishment and royalty quite admired what was happening in Germany.

Certainly, the present situation gives no real evidence of an extraordinary ‘national character’ – especially if the leadership is crassly in favour of capitulation.

146383 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #1233 of 1950 🔗

For sure if you took away the Channel in 1940 the Germans would have rolled over us easily, but if the Channel hadn’t been there the English/British would not have existed in the form they did – it was a population both culturally and genetically relatively (not completely, obviously) isolated for centuries. Many historians have attributed aspects of British culture to that relative separateness from Europe. Likewise before we became fundamentally dishonest, for ideological reasons, on race, when we recognised the obvious truth that nature also plays a part in character and culture alongside nurture, that was also generally assumed to be partly formed by said relative isolation.

As for your question of whether we would have been any different under German occupation than, say, France, that we can probably agree that we just don’t know – too many unknowns. Like you, I tend to suspect not much. There are obviously commonalities to human nature as well as cultural and racial differences.

146979 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, 1, #1234 of 1950 🔗

You labour under a misapprehension. Britain has never been ‘culturally and genetically isolated for centuries’, either completely or partially, any more than have its European neighbours. Possibly far less so.
You seem unaware that in earlier times it was often easier to travel by water than on land. Britain has always been a proudly sea faring and trading nation, with populations mixing from long before the Roman era. Our new found ability to trace the human genome in fact demonstrates conclusively that populations have travelled and mingled and then died out or disappeared for hundreds of thousands of years.

147091 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #1235 of 1950 🔗

It’s also reflected in our language which is pretty much a mixture of everything from all over Europe. That’s also because of being invaded quite a few times. And a tiny bit of invading other people (“pukka”, “ketchup”, “amok”, etc.) Being invaded is often not much fun at the time but in the long term it probably results in a more well-rounded culture.

146245 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to JYC, #1236 of 1950 🔗

All those fucking ‘keep calm and carry on’ posters, t shirts, mugs and tea towels . ‘Ooo, aren’t these quaint and so true darling’. Load of bollocks.

Another psy op softening up the plebs.

146131 Tiberius, replying to Tiberius, 7, #1237 of 1950 🔗

Very illuminating to hear James and Toby on yesterday’s London Calling.One may (only may, mind you) sympathize with politicians and scientists, who refuse to engage intellectually with the evidence that contradicts their original position, in order to save their reputation and career. But how should anyone be expected to show sympathy if their failure condemns tens of thousands to death from non-Covid conditions, and hundreds of thousands to unemployment?

146356 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Tiberius, 2, #1238 of 1950 🔗

having said that Matt Hancock was happy to take on board the CEBM observation that death totals were overstated. He was said to be “furious” about it. But was happy to revise the figures downwards.

146840 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to crimsonpirate, #1239 of 1950 🔗

Furious about the numbers being inflated, or furious at being caught out by CEBM?

146134 zacaway, 5, #1240 of 1950 🔗
146137 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 8, #1241 of 1950 🔗

I haven’t been before but now I’m getting a bit worried about not wearing a mask. I think that antagonism is going to increase. What does anyone else think? I’m nearly at the end of my tether.

146143 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Moomin, 14, #1242 of 1950 🔗

My guess is that it will become more polarised – the maskers will get more militant, but the non-maskers will too, and will grow in number. I think this week may have pushed a fair few people over the edge.

146148 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Moomin, 4, #1243 of 1950 🔗

Judging by the comments from the bedwetters on this BBC story https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54261861 I suspect that is higly likely.

146151 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, 15, #1244 of 1950 🔗

I’ll be shopping at Asda tomorrow, I’ll report back. The exemptions are still there, Kevin, and there is a note in the new guidance to say that the old exemptions still apply. Arm yourself with facts (or printouts), e.g. no proof of exemption needed, Equalities Act 2010, etc. If they start getting agressive, that’s a whole other ball game, and you shouild involve the police, or at least say you will.

146164 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 15, #1245 of 1950 🔗

PS, I know everybody/every town is different, but I have not had one look or comment of any kind so far. I’ve chatted with staff or other customers with masks on, and it’s as if nothing is any different from normal. Hope that helps a bit.
This is still the gov’s advice, updated today:

Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.
This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law .

146170 ▶▶▶▶ RonniC, replying to Sam Vimes, 12, #1246 of 1950 🔗

Same with me. I’m just back from doing my maskfree weekly shop at my local Tesco and Lidl. No problem, no aggro from staff or customers at either store. In both, though, I was the only shopper not wearing one.

146180 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RonniC, 4, #1247 of 1950 🔗

Well done.

146154 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Moomin, 8, #1248 of 1950 🔗

Timely comment, I was just reading this. I thought I better educate myself as I have just had a horrible discussion with a friend about what he has had to endure today with regard muzzle wearing in his workplace

42 peer reviewed studies about the effectiveness of wearing a muzzle. i’ll leave it for you to decide!

https://www.primarydoctor.org/masks-not-effect

146155 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Moomin, 18, #1249 of 1950 🔗

There is no doubt in my mind Kevin that the atmosphere of intolerance around mask wearing is being deliberately ramped up, it is probably the single most evil policy adopted by government in my lifetime, but it’s here and we have to deal with it. If you are want to claim an exemption then print off one of the cards here, remember if you are suffering any anxiety about the mask that is sufficient reason, you do not yet need a doctors note. You can also just state your exemption if you feel confident enough. If you do not feel you want to take on the mask orthodoxy there is always the option when you really have no choice of popping one of the cycling buffs up over your nose. Keep reading on here too, you are not alone.

146156 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Moomin, 15, #1250 of 1950 🔗

I agree, it’s (intentionally) becoming very intimidating. So far I’ve been able to just avoid places where I need to wear a mask. I’ve used the lanyard a couple of times in supermarkets but if it extends to every time you leave your house do I just stay home? Just a self-imposed lockdown isn’t it? The fact you have to put them on when not at a table has now put me off going for a meal too. If I do get to a point in the future where I just feel too intimidated I do have a bandana so at least I can pretend I’m a highwayman and not a subservient sheep. They still win though.

146169 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Achilles, 6, #1251 of 1950 🔗

Thanks for all the replies I have an exemption card and a printout of the equality act. I never intend to wear or own one but I just think it’s going to get harder and I want my response to be gracious but not sure how or what is appropriate to say! I just need a good one liner!

146183 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Moomin, 12, #1252 of 1950 🔗

I like ‘I like ‘I’m sorry but I’m not prepared to sacrifice my mental health for your irrational fear’

146188 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Moomin, 10, #1253 of 1950 🔗

“I’m exempt” is surely the best basic response.

And if they press for a reason, if you are not in the mood for confrontation and therefore prefer not to go for “none of your business”, the one suggested by Sophie123 downthread seems good:

“My go-to (which I have not had to use yet) is “are you the police?”
if the answer is no, then my response will be “then you have no right to ask me my reasons””

146209 ▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Mark, 4, #1254 of 1950 🔗

Good tip. What do you say if they are the police? (My OH did in fact get stopped and asked by a copper… fortunately she waived her exemption card at him and he let her go. Not sure if this always works / is the only way?)

146312 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to zacaway, 2, #1255 of 1950 🔗

Sophie had a PS to deal with that:

PS if they ARE the police, then you I think you can say “I have a medical reason not to” (which I am not obliged to reveal, but it’s because I AM NOT FUCKING STUPID. And as wearing a mask requires stupidity, and I am not, they cause me great distress)

146189 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Moomin, 9, #1256 of 1950 🔗

If you want some one liners you should ask Biker, but they may be a touch colourful.

146221 ▶▶▶▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to Achilles, 12, #1257 of 1950 🔗

Yes, it would be something similar to “fuck off invading my personal space you Covid Nazi cunt”

146227 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JoeBlogg, 12, #1258 of 1950 🔗

It’s about communication, really, isn’t it? 🙂
Blessed be the Biker, for he taketh not the shit.

146273 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to JoeBlogg, #1259 of 1950 🔗

oh if i only had the guts to say that to somebody’s face!!!

146363 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Sue, #1260 of 1950 🔗

How about saying “I choose not to”

146163 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Moomin, 8, #1261 of 1950 🔗

Some people just want a quiet life and will conform, others will refuse to conform no matter what. Ultimately its what makes you comfortable. I cannot see what’s wrong with wearing a bandanabif you must and a badge stating masks are harmful to your health.

146949 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, #1262 of 1950 🔗

I cannot see what’s wrong with wearing a bandana

Were you looking for the Daily Mail website ?

146168 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Moomin, 11, #1263 of 1950 🔗

It’s a decision everyone has to make for himself or herself. For myself, I’d say wearing a mask (and even, to a lesser extent, displaying an exemption permit) makes you part of the problem, and ideally one should not. But I’m not going to criticise those who feel they have to bow to the coercion. We each have our own level of tolerance for threat or for social discomfort. We each do what we can, and each of our circumstances are personal to us.

I would suggest considering what the worst that could happen is, thinking through responses, and accepting it as a potential outcome. Then recognise that all the really bad outcomes are very, very unlikely, and that in reality there will almost always be opportunities to deescalate or walk away from a situation in which you are uncomfortable.

146255 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, #1264 of 1950 🔗

To me the core issue is ending lockdown and ditching everything to do with the CV Act 2020. Masks are a side issue

146317 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1265 of 1950 🔗

All those are important imo. For me, coercive mask-wearing is important precisely because it is symbolic. Also because it undoubtedly stokes the general fear and therefore promotes acquiescence to the first two continuing.

146333 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1266 of 1950 🔗

The core issue is recognising that the virus does not pose an exceptional threat to public health, and never did

146422 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #1267 of 1950 🔗

Yep, hopefully we can all agree on that.

146194 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Moomin, 11, #1268 of 1950 🔗

We have never worn a mask but in the past two weeks my wife has been getting an increasing amount of abuse from other customers,one big brave man told her she was ‘a fucking maskless fucker’,she does wear an exemption lanyard,but I suppose expecting neanderthals to be able to read is a bit much.
She will not wear mask under any circumstances but she thinks the intimidation and abuse will be worse from now on,so she is considering not going to the shops anymore which is awful because it is one of the only things left she used to do that has not been taken away completely or been totally ruined.

146208 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 15, #1269 of 1950 🔗

Wow, ‘brave’ bloke, picking on a lone woman. Bastard.

146286 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Paul, 1, #1270 of 1950 🔗

Do you have an outdoor market nearby? We’ve been enjoying going to that for the past few months.

146444 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Paul, 1, #1271 of 1950 🔗

I am wary of confrontations and do not want to attract abuse so choose to only frequent small shops; butchers, greengrocers, the open air market etc. So far, I’ve had no issues.

146199 ▶▶ JPF, replying to Moomin, 9, #1272 of 1950 🔗

Remember that it’s not because you don’t care, it’s because you don’t believe.

146212 ▶▶▶ JPF, replying to JPF, 2, #1273 of 1950 🔗

Risk of getting fined is probably less than the risk of getting a fine when speeding, and even if you accept the fixed penalty notice it’s only £100 if paid within a certain period, so comparable to a speeding fine but with no points on your license.

146294 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to JPF, 1, #1274 of 1950 🔗

Actually that’s not a bad comeback: “(points out toward street) why don’t you shout at all those people going 40 in a 30 zone?”

146202 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Moomin, 10, #1275 of 1950 🔗

Me too. I reckon the aggro’ I will get in my shop will be from the busybodies at the Business ‘Improvement’ District and any snitchers. I have been treated today to several dirty looks from the chairwoman and no doubt, when I go back to work on Friday, I will get some unsolicited ‘useful’ advice. I reckon my customers will be OK, they have been to date, so I don’t think that will be a problem.

Just come back from Aldi, no hassle though I find that people just avoid eye contact. Bloke behind me was the only other person (other than some of the checkout staff) who was maskless. Depressing.

146205 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Moomin, 6, #1276 of 1950 🔗

Just back from our local garden centre and lunch with my mil. She is in a wheel chair and wore her mask, I have no issue with that as it is her choice. I didn’t have a mask on as is normal, going into the cafe I was asked by a young woman if I had one, I smiled and said I was exempt, no problem at all. I do find that I get side looks, I just ignore everyone and go about my business. I will not surrender to the tyranny but do understand why some people can feel intimidated.

146241 ▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Moomin, 1, #1277 of 1950 🔗

Oops. Just posted my reply to this under the wrong post. Swedenborg’s above.

146285 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Moomin, 7, #1278 of 1950 🔗

My tactic is to wait for a couple of weeks after the latest stupid and hysterical pronouncement as I know that many outlets will be 100% complying, initially. After that things usually settle down as people can’t be arsed with wasting their energy much beyond two weeks – it’s a psychological thing. I knew this was on the cards so I stocked up a few weeks ago. They will do a full lock down in October, I’m convinced, and that’s when they will go full throttle on compliance re leaving your house and trying to get anywhere. How long that will last is anyone’s guess. Not long, I reckon. If they think we’re going to put up with that sort of sh*t they have a shock coming. Too many high profile voices are speaking up now.

146288 ▶▶ DJC, replying to Moomin, 4, #1279 of 1950 🔗

My wife was attacked by a man in the street in Paris today for not wearing a mask – we are heading towards societal breakdown.

146315 ▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Moomin, 3, #1280 of 1950 🔗

Aside from thinking about faking a limp in shops to make myself appear more vulnerable and less likely to be picked on when maskless, I have also thought (honestly I have, but not seriously) about converting to Islam, just in order to have a ‘reason’ to cover my face that isn’t to do with Boris Johnson’s diktats. This is how ridiculous things have become.

146328 ▶▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Norma McNormalface, 2, #1281 of 1950 🔗

Oh, the other thing that has crossed my mind is wishing I was dressed as a nun. (Perhaps this is all taking more toll than I’ve been prepared to admit!)

146448 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Moomin, 2, #1282 of 1950 🔗

When I have over heard people most do not like masks and are just going along with it to keep the peace. Only few would challenge a non-mask wearer.
The more people are mask free, the better.

146948 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Moomin, #1283 of 1950 🔗

You don’t wear a mask but you wear a tether ?

🙂

146145 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #1284 of 1950 🔗

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3702/rr-2

Prof Bhopal

“Vaccines will not be proven to be safer for children and young people than the infection for some years, if ever. Two adenovirus-based vaccines have already been shown to have important side-effects that mimic COVID-19 infection — i.e. fever, pain, fatigue and headache. (7, 8) the side-effects have been glossed over. The side effects are occurring in 70-80% of fit people in the young adult and middle age groups. We really must know whether it is effective in people over 70 years. A vaccine is not going to be a panacea. There will be resistance and it will be contested, including in the courts, as by sheer coincidence people will die or become seriously ill shortly after receiving the vaccine and will blame it.
 Very sensible article in all aspects(except mentioning facemasks as a protection). Important as Prof Bhopal is one of the influential in Public Health

146225 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to swedenborg, 10, #1285 of 1950 🔗

So when people die by sheer coincidence after testing positive for coronavirus we’re all supposed to assume cause and effect, but when they die by sheer coincidence after a vaccine we shouldn’t.

146237 ▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Andrew Fish, #1286 of 1950 🔗

Yes, it’s called Newlogic and Newreason.

146248 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #1287 of 1950 🔗

Yes. Promote that guy. He’s going places.

146532 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Andrew Fish, #1288 of 1950 🔗

That’s always been the case with vaccine injury. You would literally have to drop dead in the doctor’s office or have something happen perhaps the same day before anyone would deign to link it to the vaccine.

146234 ▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1289 of 1950 🔗

I recently had the impulse (which I didn’t follow through on) of faking a limp while going maskless in a shop. Based purely on observation, it seems to me that if you’re in what looks to be a vulnerable minority (disabled, ethnic minority -unless young black male – or especially elderly) nobody dares have a go. I base this on the time a young man and I were asked by staff about masks on a bus, but a maskless old man was left alone!)

I carry my exemption card. Sometimes if I feel like it’ll be less bother I wear a neck scarf. It gives the impression that perhaps you’ve bothered with face covering and it’s just slipped down. You can kind of pull it towards your chin to get past bouncers. I prefer just going boldly barefaced where possible but I agree it’s made travel and shopping subconsciously bothersome having to play this game of charades every day.

146253 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Norma McNormalface, 1, #1290 of 1950 🔗

i wear a cotton scarf from cambodian krama scarf. According to wiki it’s A krama ( Khmer : ក្រមា pronounced [krɑ.ˈmaː] ) is a sturdy traditional Cambodian garment with many uses, including as a scarf , bandanna , to cover the face, for decorative purposes, and as a hammock for children. [1] It may also be used as a form of weaponry.
I’ve yet to find it’s use as “weaponry” but may come in useful!! 🙂
It’s cotton and l oose on my face, usually below my nose so i can breathe!! It’s a partial gesture towards the madness but nicer alternative to the mask and a signal of non-conformance! (IMHO)

146470 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Sue, 2, #1291 of 1950 🔗

I saw some people muzzled waiting for a bus yesterday and the thought occurred that in a previous age you’d have assumed they were highwaymen. Perhaps getting a complete Dick Turpin costume might expose the thing to the ridicule it deserves.

146152 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #1292 of 1950 🔗

Boris Johnson Blames You! The British Public’s Wish For Freedom Forces Authoritarian Control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyCfKiQVO9c

146176 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 7, #1293 of 1950 🔗

He’s fond of blaming others, a sign of a coward!

146158 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 14, #1294 of 1950 🔗

Were doctors free to prescribe Hydroxychloroquine, ‘we wouldn’t need the lockdowns’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZgal3hssjI

youtube watch?v=QZgal3hssjI

Sky News Australia
629K subscribers

Hydroxychloroquine is a lawful drug which “doctors have been able to prescribe for over 60 years” yet bureaucrats have stepped in and overridden the ability of Australian doctors to prescribe it to their patients, says Liberal MP Craig Kelly.

“This is the most insane thing that I’ve ever seen in my life,” Mr Kelly told Sky News host Alan Jones

“The evidence is now overwhelming; it rolls in day after day after day.”

Mr Craig said in the last 24 hours, a peer reviewed study published in the Lancet said “overall mortality was lower in the hydroxychloroquine group than in the group that didn’t receive hydroxychloroquine.”

“Yet we still have this ban preventing Australian doctors from prescribing this drug to their sick COVID patients,” he said.

“With the weight of evidence going on, anyone who tells you that hydroxychloroquine, there is no evidence for it, or it’s dangerous, is either lying or they’re a fool.”

Mr Kelly said “if these bureaucrats get out of the way and give the freedom back to the doctors” to prescribe hydroxychloroquine again, we wouldn’t need the lockdowns and we wouldn’t have “all the pain and suffering we are seeing around the nations”.

Mr Jones added “people are dying as a result of the ban in this country”.

146171 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #1295 of 1950 🔗

They’ve banned it or ignored it because its a cheap alternative and they’ve invested a bloody lot of money into a vaccine that may never be effective! Can you imagine the furore if suddenly they admitted that HCQ was the answer?

146808 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella Donna, #1296 of 1950 🔗

Plus Orange Man Bad…

146174 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 8, #1297 of 1950 🔗

Presumably, there are two issues here. First, it makes no money for BigPharma and second, Donald Trump advocated its use.

146187 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to kh1485, 7, #1298 of 1950 🔗

Yes, people go to extraordinary lengths to diss Trump.

146239 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Bumble, 2, #1299 of 1950 🔗

Yes. I don’t know why. He was well known as a spoiled brat clown well before his presidency to anyone who kept up to speed. No ‘dissing’ needed – he did it all himself.

146810 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, #1300 of 1950 🔗

Not on that.

146341 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to kh1485, 2, #1301 of 1950 🔗

he also bought a large shareholding in a company that produces HCQ-people got annoyed at his blatant product placement.

146822 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to crimsonpirate, #1302 of 1950 🔗

That’s not the reason.
If he recommended drinking clean water, the opposition would claim it was poisonous.
He recommended HcQ the day after Tucker Carlson interviewed a French doctor who’d used it on CV19 patients. I don’t believe Tucker has any shares in the company.
Plus, Hcq was only one of many other products the company produced.

146179 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #1303 of 1950 🔗

I think it is interesting that professor Heneghan’s CEBM has also dismissed Hydroxychloroquine as a treatment, or at least they had last time I checked.

146191 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to tonys, 2, #1304 of 1950 🔗

The UK HCQ study did not meet its endpoint. That was probably because they used the wrong dose. They used the dose for hydroxyquinoline and were lucky no patient died of HCQ toxicity.

146200 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bumble, 1, #1305 of 1950 🔗

And also at the wrong time in the evolution of the disease, and without Zinc.

146213 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1306 of 1950 🔗

Yes, they were testing it only on patients who were ill enough to be hospitalized which is imbecilic and virtually designed to fail. It has to be given in the very early stages or as a prophylactic.

146215 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1307 of 1950 🔗

Designed to fail ?

146206 ▶▶▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Bumble, 2, #1308 of 1950 🔗

They used the wrong dose an it was higher than the normally recommended dose

146211 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1309 of 1950 🔗

By a factor of about 6 x if I remember corectly

146235 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to tonys, 5, #1310 of 1950 🔗

My understanding is that they just stuck to normal scientific criteria, and simply stated the lack of sure evidence – in a way parallel to their judgment on masks.

Those of us who are sceptics have to accept that this sort of judgment cuts two ways – and that alleged miracle remedies on either side need rigorous examination.

146238 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to tonys, #1311 of 1950 🔗

Well the study that refuted Henegens said that they were administering the wrong dose. And an unhealthy dose at that. He was only reviewing the evidence however. Not doing a study.

Get the dose and date of prescription right, it seems to work as it should.

Why they were administering the wrong dose who knows.

146340 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1312 of 1950 🔗

They deliberately prescribed the wrong dose at borderline toxicity levels and did not prescribe zinc at the same time despite worldwide recommendations since March to do so:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-vladimir-zelenko-finds-100-success-rate-in-350-patients-using-hydroxychloroquine-with-z-paks-video/

146207 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #1313 of 1950 🔗

Here is a video of a HCQ shipment taken months ago heading for the main depot of the French Army

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Agv7JEO8MngCiSf1wv76UMjCH8uM

If they knew it didn’t work why supply it to the Army?

146806 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1314 of 1950 🔗

If the over-60s and others with compromised immune systems were prescribed maintenance doses of HcQ, we could probably all go back to normal tomorrow.

146167 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1315 of 1950 🔗

Make of this what you will:

Airbnbs and home shares allowed to continue despite ban on visiting households
The Association of Scottish Self Caterers said the Scottish Government confirmed the industry was able to continue operating.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/airbnbs-and-home-shares-allowed-continue-despite-ban-visiting-households-2980677

The new guidance, which states households are not able to visit other households apart from exemptions for single person households, non-co-habiting couples and those requiring care or childcare, does not extend to short-term lets.

The Association of Scottish Self Caterers said it had obtained legal clarification on the issue and said the Scottish Government outlined hotels, hostels, members clubs, boarding houses, bed and breakfasts and short-term holiday lets were not affected by the new rules.

146218 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Basics, 5, #1316 of 1950 🔗

So,you can’t go to see your granny in her house but you can rent an Airbnb and visit her there ?,or maybe rent a caravan and go and see her ?.
Yes,that’s logical.
And still most of the population obey like eager puppies.

146378 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Paul, 4, #1317 of 1950 🔗

Even easier I can just put my own house on AirBnB but only let my own friends “rent” it.

146385 ▶▶▶▶ Simon, replying to guy153, 2, #1318 of 1950 🔗

I like that idea, maybe you could let it out for a funeral. A funeral for someone who died in the family years ago……

146561 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Paul, 1, #1320 of 1950 🔗

It’s also possible to rent with a live in host.

I guess you open as an airbnb and only accept family bookings.

146415 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #1321 of 1950 🔗

Follow the money are air BnB contributors to Scottish government???

146563 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 1, #1322 of 1950 🔗

They are part of the favoured reset i believe. Gig economy no security etc.

146181 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 1, #1323 of 1950 🔗

Latest advice from Psycle. Anyone who has been to a spinning class will know how crazy this is:
“Following Government guidance, masks will be mandatory in the communal areas of our studios from tomorrow, Thursday 24th September 2020.
When entering the building, waiting for a class and leaving the venue, you will be required to wear a mask. This will not apply during the class, but we ask you wear a mask to enter the studio to protect yourself and others in the community, and to ensure we continue to have a safe space to workout together.“

146204 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Fiat, 6, #1324 of 1950 🔗

Put you sweaty mask on the sweaty handlebars then put it on you sweaty face with you sweaty hands and stay ……… inprisoned

146210 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Fiat, 8, #1325 of 1950 🔗

This was the message from my (former) gym.

Wearing a mask after a heavy spin class, gasping for breath.

Those people in charge of gyms must have some knowledge of the body and know wearing a mask after heavy exercise is criminal.

146308 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to stefarm, 1, #1326 of 1950 🔗

And the virus is smart so it doesn’t spread while you are exercising

146270 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Fiat, 1, #1327 of 1950 🔗

The country has gone mad

146511 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Fiat, 1, #1328 of 1950 🔗

That’s been the deal here ever since they “allowed” gyms to open back up. My mom had to stay on her mat during a class, and if she wanted to go grab a different weight she had to put her mask on and then take it off again back on her mat. Lunacy. Same with indoor dining — from the beginning we’ve had to wear the mask to and from the table, to and from the washroom, but not while sitting at the table. Suffice it to say, I refuse to dine in.

146195 Liam, replying to Liam, 53, #1329 of 1950 🔗

It’s depressing reading newspaper articles and forums where people argue the minutiae of specific measures. Testing, temperature checks at sports venues, socially distanced concerts, all of it.

Way to miss the point. People can’t seem to grasp that this is all a fundamental nonsense, and the only way back to actually living again is to drop it, all of it.

146198 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Liam, 7, #1330 of 1950 🔗

Exactly right.

146203 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Liam, 8, #1331 of 1950 🔗

Yes,drop all of it,now.

146217 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Liam, 10, #1332 of 1950 🔗

Just like closing the pubs at 10. At the top they seem to be suffering from a delusion of complete control where they think a little tweak of the tiller here and there will manage the infection just so, when in reality almost everything they’ve done from the beginning has probably had only minimal impact at best.

146231 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Achilles, 4, #1333 of 1950 🔗

It’s my opinion that they are designed not to work.They are so minimal it gives them the excuse for another lockdown

146252 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 12, #1334 of 1950 🔗

The first lockdown never ended. Until the last restriction is lifted and the last law has been abolished, lockdown continues. I don’t think they care whether things work or not

146268 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Liam, 5, #1335 of 1950 🔗

They wont, too much money riding on their vaccine.

146364 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Liam, 2, #1336 of 1950 🔗

Correct. The relevant data is number of deaths.

146420 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Liam, 3, #1337 of 1950 🔗

Very well said, and the worst thing of all is all the acronyms. Surely people can see that if you lace your posts with a thousand different unexplained acronyms you lose at least 75% of your audience before you even start – including me!

146739 ▶▶ Laurence, replying to Liam, 1, #1338 of 1950 🔗

Completely right

146197 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1339 of 1950 🔗

Something strange going on.

Running a mac laptop today everytime I open this website on safari I get a .txt file downloaded to my laptop. It’s called f.txt.js – now up to number 4.

What is going on? Doesn’t happen on firefox or opera.

I guess it’s surveillance ready to put me into re-education.

146216 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Awkward Git, #1340 of 1950 🔗

https://sensorstechforum.com/f-txt-js-mac-virus/

Possible attack on the site. My laptop has been misbehaving massively today.

146222 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1341 of 1950 🔗

It is not just this site, if you search for f.txt.js there are plenty of references to it. The .js extension implies java script

146229 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Strange Days, 1, #1342 of 1950 🔗

People are reporting it is when they look at “news” websites.

146477 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Strange Days, 1, #1343 of 1950 🔗

The .txt.js implies malware of some description. The idea is that people see the file without the extension (usually on Windows, where extensions are hidden by default), double-click what looks like a safe text file and end up running the script.

146388 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1344 of 1950 🔗

Doesn’t do it when running a VPN.

146220 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1345 of 1950 🔗

Similar setup here, not getting this random file.

Looking online people many people are getting this on various Apple devices, but no explanation to what the file actually is.

146558 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1346 of 1950 🔗

Good call raising this issue AG. Reading others comments it seems a little strange what is occuring. VPN sorting it.

146219 William Hand, replying to William Hand, -1, #1348 of 1950 🔗

Over 6000 “cases” today. Just saying!

146224 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to William Hand, 2, #1349 of 1950 🔗

expect more panic

146228 ▶▶ DRW, replying to William Hand, 3, #1350 of 1950 🔗

We need more calling out this testdemic for what it is.

146233 ▶▶ Lili, replying to William Hand, 10, #1351 of 1950 🔗

Questions:

1) How many are false positives?
2) How many tests have picked up the common cold virus (yes, this is happening)
3) How many people have no symptoms?
4) How many are a bit unwell at home?
5) How many are in hospital with symptoms?
6) How many are extremely unwell and in hospital with the virus?

Not quite as clear as 6,000 ‘cases’ is it?

146244 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Lili, 3, #1352 of 1950 🔗

Unfortunately MSM will just say OMG unprecdented spiking surging skyrocketing uptick jump!

146369 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lili, 1, #1353 of 1950 🔗

1. Above 90% probably
2. No that doesn’t happen. False positives are not caused by other HCoVs. But other HCoVs (and rhinovirus etc) do make more people go for tests.
3. In the ONS data about 60%. In Pillar 2 they refuse to say.

Don’t know the answers to 4, 5 and 6.

146242 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to William Hand, 7, #1354 of 1950 🔗

All just too coincidental for me. Ramp up the fear – “oh look cases going up to confirm what we are telling you.”

Nah!!

146309 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to William Hand, 1, #1355 of 1950 🔗

Big increase in cases processed

146320 ▶▶ PFD, replying to William Hand, 2, #1356 of 1950 🔗

That is by date reported and the numbers need to be backdated to date of swab/test. If you report cases by date of test one gets the following since the 14th September:

14th – 2881
15th – 3012
16th – 3704
17th – 3802
18th – 4010
19th – 3682
20th – 2536
21st – 2691

No doubt the more recent numbers are subject to revision as the results of tests are reported but this is not a dramatic rise in positive results from tests!

146361 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to William Hand, 2, #1357 of 1950 🔗

I have absolutely no confidence in those numbers whatsoever. They can be manipulated in many ways to give whatever impression this criminal government want. The only measure that they can’t fake is excess deaths and, even then, you have to allow for excess deaths caused by the lockdown and not by Covid.

146232 D B, replying to D B, 4, #1358 of 1950 🔗

Would be good if someone *CARL IF YOU’RE LISTENING* could post the “real” cases, or at least a range based on the worst and best case FPR rate so we can see what the “real” positive number of cases is. I think it would be a useful alternative fact.

146240 ▶▶ Jo, replying to D B, #1359 of 1950 🔗

Trouble is, the hospital, ventilator and death rates have gone up too. Unless they can be debunked – if they are inaccurate – we are pretty lost at the moment

146243 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Jo, 2, #1360 of 1950 🔗

Yes, no doubt, and we shouldn’t ignore that fact, but we’re been led by cases at the moment, those other measures aren’t driving policy. Yet. However, most of the low-hanging fruit has been picked earlier this year so we won’t see thousands of deaths, or “excess deaths” at any rate is my guess

146267 ▶▶▶▶ DaveB, replying to D B, 1, #1361 of 1950 🔗

‘Yes, no doubt, and we shouldn’t ignore that fact,’ what fact? Please substantiate.

146246 ▶▶▶ jojo, replying to Jo, 2, #1362 of 1950 🔗

Those rates are going up, but at a lesser rate than during March, April. Now doctors know much better how to effectively treat compared to six months back.

146256 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to jojo, 4, #1363 of 1950 🔗

So why put the covid-19 patients on ventilators?

146271 ▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1364 of 1950 🔗

My thought as I’ve mentioned before is that these are people who are dying from something else that does benefit from a ventilator who also happen to have tested positive for Coronavirus. The hospital data needs to be unpicked to know why people are in hospital. Really what we need is a comparison with hospitalization rates by month in previous years to see if we are just seeing normal seasonality. However, that is complicated by the fact that we are probably getting people going to hospital who have been afraid to for the last 6 months.

146291 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Achilles, 8, #1365 of 1950 🔗

Agree. The data is being manipulated in several different ways, and needs to be unpicked by CEBM. Unfortunately, due to the time delay in accessing the death certificates, it will be several weeks before we will know. They know what they are doing!

146277 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1366 of 1950 🔗

I think, as I suspect you do too AG, the rise in patients on ventilators is perhaps, the most suspicious of the daily stats? Bearing in mind ‘best practice’ has moved away from mechanical ventilators, and in any event, there is the longest possible lead time from ‘cases’ to ventilation, the fact that this variable has moved sharply upwards since about 12 Sept – 2 days before the number of people in hospital spiked – makes me a bit suspicious.

146348 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1367 of 1950 🔗

You got it.

146343 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1368 of 1950 🔗

To kill them, obviously.

146357 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1369 of 1950 🔗

Some of them do need ventilators . Just not nearly as many as were being put on them at the beginning.

146505 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, 1, #1370 of 1950 🔗

Well except if those are just absolute number of people on ventilators, probably about 10 of them have flu to every one with Covid. Would be interesting to see the numbers.

146249 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jo, 6, #1371 of 1950 🔗

I don’t agree we are lost. The basic case is unchanged – the “excess” mortality we saw in March/April was nothing like enough to justify treating this virus as exceptional. The bar has been set far too low.

146261 ▶▶▶ DaveB, replying to Jo, 2, #1372 of 1950 🔗

Jo, do you have a link to those stats. Thanks.

146262 ▶▶▶ tonys, replying to Jo, 11, #1373 of 1950 🔗

The fundamental point is the disease is not severe enough to merit destruction of the economy and our way of life, nowhere near, we know that now so no excuses.

146263 ▶▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to Jo, 1, #1374 of 1950 🔗

It’s all manufactured data nonsense.

146353 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Jo, 4, #1375 of 1950 🔗

They are going up. There is a “second ripple”. No point denying it but it is not going to be anything like the epidemic in March and even that wasn’t that bad– slightly worse than average for a typical winter flu as it turned out.

146546 ▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to guy153, #1376 of 1950 🔗

Nothing is going up.

146346 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to D B, 1, #1377 of 1950 🔗

I think we sceptics have fallen into the trap of discussing cases and FPR. Surely the focus should be on actual hospital admissions, age of patients, deaths /outcomes.

146236 Jo, replying to Jo, 2, #1378 of 1950 🔗

Valiant effort of Julian Metcalfe on World at One today. I know most of you won’t want to listen to the BBC but he had a good go. I really hated the hostile tone of the interviewer, though. It was around 13.15.

146247 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jo, 3, #1379 of 1950 🔗

Another rich sceptic to add to Dolan, Hugh Osmond, Luke Johnson, Tim Martin

Shout out to anyone reading who knows them well – get together and fund/found a new party/movement to be a focal point for resistance?

146324 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Jo, #1380 of 1950 🔗

it got a repeat mention on PM just now-at least they are not ignoring him

146371 ▶▶ Alethea, replying to Jo, #1381 of 1950 🔗

Yes, a terrific interview I thought. He sounded near tears but very reasonable, and eloquent, and outraged.

146254 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 8, #1382 of 1950 🔗

Knew it wouldn’t take long to follow the Scottish Fish’s lead:

England will likely follow Scotland and impose a ban on visits between households, according to chief medical officer Chris Whitty. The Scottish government has also advised against car-sharing.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/house-visits-might-need-to-be-banned-says-chris-whitty-809bwxs99

They are determined to drive a wedge between us.

146266 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to zacaway, 7, #1383 of 1950 🔗

Eeee lad, we’ve already got that in t’ North West. At least I think we still have, there’s that many thngs to ignore these days, I struggle to keep up…

146339 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1384 of 1950 🔗

“That many things to ignore . . ” Love it!

146275 ▶▶ DRW, replying to zacaway, 1, #1385 of 1950 🔗

National mockdown incoming.

146281 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to zacaway, #1386 of 1950 🔗

Already here in the West Mids too. Apparently…

146322 ▶▶ Sue, replying to zacaway, 6, #1387 of 1950 🔗

so people living alone will see zero people / zero social for 6+ months – it’s truely mind boggling what is going on and impact on people’s mental health!!

146366 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sue, 1, #1388 of 1950 🔗

You can go for a meal or I could go on a Ramblers walk, but I cannot go and stay with my friend who has just lost year 34 yr old daughter.

146264 theanalyst, replying to theanalyst, 10, #1389 of 1950 🔗

Been examining the governments ‘Cases by Local Area in England’ data to try and understand the shift in so called ‘cases’ by local area in the UK – we know by earlier analysis the only testing change of note was the increase in Pillar 2 Satellite testing in care homes (patients and staff) Results are quite dramatic!

Focusing on week 35 (just before the September 1K a day uplift in cases) and taking West Sussex as an example, there were just 2 MSOAs (small geographical areas) with only 7 cases in total, but suddenly, in week 36, there are magically a whopping 20 MSOAs with 77 reported cases.

So the Pillar 2 Satellite tests are trying to tell us the virus is everywhere geographically again. In twenty little towns in West Sussex instead of just 2. Clearly it is not. It cannot be so. I picked West Sussex because there were 3 Covid19 deaths reported today and there is a risk of mis-reporting i.e. they are only in the government’s count because of a false positive test done 15 days or whatever before entering hospital, caused by the test picking up the remnants of a virus that was defeated at some time in the past.

Remember the positivity rate of these questionable tests is now at almost 12% for the Female 85+ age group nationally per PHE’s own weekly figures.

So, nationally, in just one week, our rotten government would have us believe there was a magical shift in the physical geographical location of the cases of the virus. How is this possible? Cases went from being detected in just 941 MSOAs nationally, to 2,075 MSOAs in one week. In other words they would have us believe new cases, over the space of just a week, appeared in an additional 1,134 new small towns areas in England, an increase of over 120%.

I remain deeply sceptical and distrustful of reported case and death numbers.

146344 ▶▶ guy153, replying to theanalyst, #1390 of 1950 🔗

I would expect it to be everywhere geographically as the situation has had several months to stabilize. Each of those towns may have have had one or two infected people who hadn’t been detected and then as people went back to school and spent more time indoors the levels went up. As soon as kids went back to school they wasted little time in catching colds (some of which actually were Covid) but this means suddenly a lot more symptomatic people going for tests.

Having said all this the Pillar 2 data is basically garbage and it’s hard to read anything into it. But the ONS data has shown fairly even increases I. The NW, NE and London. I expect these to be repeated everywhere. Of course this is no cause for alarm.

146574 ▶▶▶ theanalyst, replying to guy153, 1, #1391 of 1950 🔗

Yes – we are definitely dealing with what we call dodgy data. We must at the same time thank the government for publishing some data, no matter how dodgy.

The terrible yet ironic conclusion I reach, is that the government is blaming and punishing us, the population, for the crime that they committed – allowing the virus to run rife in care homes.

They are, and have been for the last 3 weeks, massively ramping up testing in care homes. They are using crappy tests with questionable scientific methods and processes which are now generating 12% positivity rates in >85 age groups. These are huge numbers. They are therefore identifying thousands of people with remnants of the virus and generating thousands of false positive cases. These are old people so flow through into hospital admission and deaths – more dodgy data. Hospital admissions and deaths will continue to grow for the next few weeks as this scam continues and the effects filter through. Hopefully the virus (which has not 100% left us) will also eventually reduce.

The step changes we are seeing in the cases from 02/09 is a big con. I honestly think the government are innocent and just can’t see it.

Shame the lead scientists don’t earn their wage and pass this sort of stuff on to them…..

146265 zacaway, replying to zacaway, 1, #1392 of 1950 🔗

Looks like Sunak is working on a U-turn to ending the furlough:

Rishi Sunak to unveil new UK plan to protect jobs

The Treasury is working on proposals to extend subsidies for workers’ wages, according to the Financial Times. It’s thought that updated measures could see the state top up the salaries of employees who are only able to work part-time. On the media rounds this morning Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab suggested the Chancellor is considering targeting financial assistance to ‘specific sectors’ that have been put under heightened pressure due to the latest restrictions, which include a 10 p.m. curfew for the hospitality industry.

https://www.ft.com/content/342669d3-7011-4864-a96c-a712a9597f09

146282 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to zacaway, 9, #1393 of 1950 🔗

Why is the chancellor not working on a policy where people can go to work ? Without restrictions ?

146313 ▶▶ Julian, replying to zacaway, 4, #1394 of 1950 🔗

Inevitable. It will need to go on for as long as the nonsense continues. They cannot afford for it not to. It’s possible that they now realise they are done for so don’t care how badly they screw the economy.

146283 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to arfurmo, 9, #1396 of 1950 🔗

Masks don’t work. Pointless. BMA should know this.

146321 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Leemc23, 4, #1397 of 1950 🔗

I contacted them months ago asking for their evidence that masks work.

Included links to studies that showed mask were useless.

Never even acknowledged the e-mail.

My GP agreed with em though last time I spoke to him.

146425 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1398 of 1950 🔗

The BMA has damaged itself almost irretrievably by its bonkers position on these things.

146788 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Leemc23, #1399 of 1950 🔗

BMA is now run by left-wing activists.

146359 ▶▶ EssieSW, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1400 of 1950 🔗

They can fuck right off with that utter bullshit.

Weird time for them to be calling for that now considering they want office workers to work from home when they can now anyway.

146946 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to arfurmo, #1401 of 1950 🔗

British-Medical-Association-calls-government-make-masks-compulsory-INSIDE-offices

British-people-calls-government-make-jalapeno-enemas-compulsory-INSIDE-BMA-orifices.

146274 B Boru, replying to B Boru, 17, #1402 of 1950 🔗

Seems to be theme of today so here’s my tuppenceworth to add to the already growing list of stories around the muzzle.

I have just been talking to a friend who had just started a new job a few weeks ago after being paid off from his other job end of July. The new place he started has mandatory muzzle wearing policy AT ALL TIMES EVERYWHERE! NO EXCEPTIONS!!

We’ll get the legality of that later but let me just add some more colour to this which illustrates exactly the mentality we are dealing with when it comes to The Cult zealots. I am absolutely numb inside after he told me what happened today when he was in work. I think I have just felt an entirely new emotion as I cannot actually describe how I feel right now! You’ll understand why later!

He had suffered childhood trauma and as a result has serious anxiety issues around having to wear a muzzle, naturally, but had weighed up the consequences to himself mentally, physically and emotionally and decided to suffer it for the sake of his family as you need to put bread on the table right.

So 3 weeks in and he told me that he had already had some episodes since starting where he felt like he was going to blow his top and succumb to the anxiety building but he swallowed it back down and kept just thinking about being able to continue to feed his children and pay the mortgage etc etc.

Today he tells me, at lunchtime he is standing heating up his lunch in microwave at staff canteen. I should add, facing away from everyone else and at least 5m away from anyone else anyway. He starts to feel a panic attack coming on and getting a bit breathless.so he takes the muzzle down off his nose so he can get some air and alleviate the rising panic. What anyone in that awkward situation would do. Big mistake!

So he says, he’s standing there with eyes closed rubbing his temples trying to calm down when he hears a mans voice to the side at the coffee machine several metres away. “Can you pull your mask up over your nose please”. He turns round and sees an older man in shirt n trousers with his hand up at his muzzled face telling him again to “pull your mask up over your nose”. It was probably the wrong moment and he said back, “I have anxiety issues, I can’t breathe, i just needed some air” and turned away. The guy then says “you should think about others as well eh?” in a threatening tone . He says he just turned round and gave the guy a look of disbelief and then turned back speechless and kinda shook his head and just stood staring at the clock ticking down on microwave waiting for his lunch. The guy walk away.

So about 30secs later he tells me, another guy appears at his back. This time it is the HSE manager who he knew from inductions etc.. “Here we go” he thinks.

Mr HSE man then asks if he can have a word and explains about them being mandatory blah blah blah. Then he says. that the guy he just had the initial altercation with was in fact the company top man. He says his heart just sank as you can imagine! But by this time the rising panic and fear had been replaced with desperation and he said he snapped back that “I have anxiety issues, i was having a panic attack and needed air” to which HSE monkey replied “It’s the rules!”. He then retorts with “so let me get this straight, are you advocating that I carry out an act of self harm? I needed air!”. HSE monkey must have got his pullcord stuck cos again all he said was “It’s the rules, there is no argument. It’s black and white”

My friend by this point said he was incandescent but again, swallowed it down and just said exasperatedly “what do you want me to do, I needed air”. HSE monkey marched off and said he would be speaking to manager etc etc blah blah.

Now my friend then tells me that he couldn’t even eat his lunch following that and had to go straight to a toilet and he burst into tears just with the sheer anger and rage he was feeling.

So to legal matters. If there are any legal eagles on here who can offer any advice that I can pass onto my friend about what he might be able to do about it I would be very grateful.

He doesn’t know how this is gong to pan out, only 3 weeks in the door, he’ll probably get the bullet, but he tells me he feels suicidal again after many years and if it wasn’t for his family he would probably be away somewhere in the country in his car with a hosepipe and a roll of gaffa tape.

“You should think about others as well eh?” is the bit that stands out for me! As I said, indescribable!

When I tell you that my friend’s childhood trauma was of a sexual nature then you will understand why I said what I said earlier about not being able to describe how I was now feeling having digested a bit what he told me!

I’m away for a walk. I need fresh air!!

146323 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to B Boru, 14, #1403 of 1950 🔗

Are any of you evil idiots in government reading this??????

You bastards.

146577 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1404 of 1950 🔗

Utterly utterly pure unadultered sadistic evil mate!

146780 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1405 of 1950 🔗

I’m collecting comments and personal stories (no real names) which I’m going to send to my MP.
I’ve already sent one email today, a copy of the email Toby included today.
The MPs need to know about this, so they cant ignore it and pretend they don’t know. It needs to be personal.

146327 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to B Boru, 3, #1406 of 1950 🔗

I don’t know the legalities but the first thing I would do is contact my GP so that it becomes a medical matter that they have a duty of care to manage.

146566 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Achilles, #1407 of 1950 🔗

Thanks Achilles, I will suggest that. Doubt it will do any good tbh honest but it’s worth a try

146397 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to B Boru, 1, #1408 of 1950 🔗

I would speak to HR-if they have one

146572 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to crimsonpirate, #1409 of 1950 🔗

Thanks cp, the problem is that he is only 3 weeks in and on a probation so….you can guess the rest!

146403 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to B Boru, 2, #1410 of 1950 🔗

Wait for the wanker to finish work and have a quiet word with him preferably wearing a ski mask or a n other grotesque mask which might result in him being bundled into the boot of a car.

146517 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #1411 of 1950 🔗

On reflection this looks a very facetious comment, it isn’t and wasn’t intended to be.

The treatment of this man is not human and I presently seriously question mankind. I hang on to the fact of what goes around comes around.

146582 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to stefarm, 1, #1412 of 1950 🔗

haha it’s cool, the thought and worse had crossed my mind anyway. A burnout on the cunt’s face til there is nothing left but tarmac was my retribution fantasy……is that healthy??

Thanks for your words

146436 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to B Boru, 5, #1413 of 1950 🔗

I am so angry when I read these types of comments that I don’t know what to do with myself. The poor man, he is obviously at the end of his tether and these idiots have not an ounce of humility or compassion. I don’t know what has happened to some peoples ability to see through bull shit, even if they believe it all though there is absolutely no need to act like complete pricks.

146555 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mrs issedoff, #1414 of 1950 🔗

I was going to type a reply, but Mrs issedoff has expressed my thoughts exactly.

Please pass on all our good wishes to your friend, B Boru.

146559 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, #1415 of 1950 🔗

I should say I’m putting he kids to bed now, fuming with anger after reading this.

146601 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to TJN, #1416 of 1950 🔗

Thanks TJN, I surely will. I spoke to hin just a short while ago and he feels a bit better now. He said he just took his mrs and kids all together and had a big group hug as a defiance against them.

Speaks volumes that such a simple human thing is now an act of defiance!

146956 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to B Boru, #1417 of 1950 🔗

Yes! Hugging your nearest and dearest has become a revolutionary act.

146593 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Mrs issedoff, #1418 of 1950 🔗

Thanks Mrs. Like you, I just stare mouth agog when I read this from other people as well. When it happens to be someone you know and care about it just magnifies. I am so enraged and driven now to do even more of whatever I can to bring this fucking evil to heel.

146439 ▶▶ RickH, replying to B Boru, #1419 of 1950 🔗

Horrific. Naziism in action.

146611 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to RickH, #1420 of 1950 🔗

Indeed Rick, must say i am usually able to deal with and keep on maintaining a fairly positive outlook but that really got me today.

thanks

146445 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to B Boru, 5, #1421 of 1950 🔗

Sorry to hear this, just awful.

Even if he isn’t fired and merely resigns to end the hell, there may be a claim for constructive dismissal, because the work environment is so hostile for him so the resignation isn’t really voluntary and therefore amounts to a termination of employment. He may need to get a proper solicitor if this dreadful treatment goes any further.

146615 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Poppy, 1, #1422 of 1950 🔗

Thanks Poppy. I think the legal route is probably a non starter cos they can just make any old shite up and as he is on probation, just sack him. It’s not renowned to be a very good place all round with regard to welfare of it’s workers as I have since found out.

I have been trying to tell him that it may turn out to be a blessing in disguise, try and find a silver lining you know?

Said he was back on the job boards tonight seeing if anything else about so hopefully he can get something else fairly soon and I will go along with him to eh…..hand in his notice…..with some of what Stefarm suggested thrown in!

146784 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to B Boru, 1, #1423 of 1950 🔗

Is this something Robin Tillbrook (details given on this site) would deal with??

146815 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, 1, #1424 of 1950 🔗

or Francis Hoar, or Simon Dolan?

146943 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, 1, #1425 of 1950 🔗

I spoke with Mr Tilbrook last month – he is friendly, happy to listen and discuss possibilities.

Agree re talking to a GP as well.

147305 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to JohnB, #1426 of 1950 🔗

Thanks guys, I will pass on details and email him myself also. If nothing else I might get some guidance which I can post on here which will help others in similar situations.

146818 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to B Boru, 1, #1427 of 1950 🔗

I’d be wanting to hit the company with a discrimination claim…

146905 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to B Boru, 1, #1428 of 1950 🔗

I would also suggest passing this on to Simon Dolan and even Toby so it can be featured here.

146279 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #1429 of 1950 🔗

If ‘lockdown’ was meant to be protecting the vulnerable think again. I found this video very hard to watch and have been crying my eyes out (not an easy thing to make me do)

This shameful treatment of the elderly should be sent to every doctor and politician to show them what they are doing.

https://youtu.be/u5HmtEMRlpA

146480 ▶▶ Jules, replying to Schrodinger, #1430 of 1950 🔗

The country is being run by murderous criminals.

146496 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #1431 of 1950 🔗

I couldn’t even get through it. My grandmother was in a very high end LTC facility and was loving it there as she was approaching 101, but she lost the will to live and went downhill fast. She far outlived most and Covid didn’t kill her directly, but the lockdown made her lose the will to live and it angers me that her last months were spent mostly alone in her room with meals left outside the door.

146915 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Schrodinger, #1432 of 1950 🔗

I couldn’t get through it either. Motherfuckers.

146953 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to JohnB, #1433 of 1950 🔗

Nor me. I hope Johnson, Hancock and the rest of these criminals rot in hell for what they have done.

146289 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 18, #1434 of 1950 🔗

75 years ago, Hermann Göring was asked during the Nuremberg trials, how could the Germans agree to this?
He replied:
′ ′ It’s very simple and has nothing to do with Nazism; it has to do with human nature. This can be done in a Nazi, socialist, communist, monarchy or democracy system:
the only thing the government needs to turn people into slaves is fear.
If you find something that scares them, you can make them do anything.

146293 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Andrew, 5, #1435 of 1950 🔗

Its a strange thing, how some of us can see through it though and others, just crumble

146345 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #1436 of 1950 🔗

Fluoride and mobile phones causing brain damage.

146374 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1437 of 1950 🔗

Very strange. I wonder why it is? Maybe because I am more scared of a collapsed economy than getting sick. Because medicine can fix many things these days, as long as it’s properly funded.

146754 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sophie123, #1438 of 1950 🔗

I didn’t want to believe it to start with, though I was initially very concerned at seeing what was coming out of China, plus the outbreak on one of the cruise ships.
But early on, I couldn’t get a sense of it all. There were so many conflicting signs, ie how deadly it was or wasn’t. That had me doubting what was going on.

146912 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, #1439 of 1950 🔗

It had me convinced they were fucking with us.

146342 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Andrew, #1440 of 1950 🔗

Can imagine Cummings saying that as well.

146404 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Andrew, #1441 of 1950 🔗

“The so called crisis can only be settled by state action and within the orbit of the state”
Benito Mussolini

146437 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Andrew, #1442 of 1950 🔗

‘Lest we forget’ ….???????

Some seem to have never remembered. And they will don their poppies as a terminal insult to the dead.

146290 Dan Clarke, 12, #1443 of 1950 🔗

Boris and his gang are literally ripping the country apart, the MP’s interviewed haven’t a clue what is going on, while the rest of them stand fiddling while Rome burns. All to make rich men richer with their vaccination plans

146292 Adamb, replying to Adamb, #1444 of 1950 🔗

I don’t believe it, looks like Sweden are caving in

146295 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Adamb, 3, #1445 of 1950 🔗

How?

146298 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Adamb, #1446 of 1950 🔗

How? I have been avoiding everything except this site since Boris yesterday.

146299 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to Adamb, #1447 of 1950 🔗

Get ABBA on the case.

146310 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Andrew, #1448 of 1950 🔗

Get Benny on the Big Red Telephone NOW!!!!

146300 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Adamb, #1449 of 1950 🔗

I see a telegraph article paywalled suggesting Tegnell would support localised time limited lockdowns?!?! WHY?! It clearly hasn’t been necessary before for them!!!

146306 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1450 of 1950 🔗

Something doesn’t quite fit in the article.

146303 ▶▶ Will, replying to Adamb, #1451 of 1950 🔗

I am not sure they are. They are talking about bringing in highly localised, extremely temporary lockdowns. I will await an update from Swedish posters to see whether this is all just a load of bollocks though.

146783 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, #1452 of 1950 🔗

Not heard this over here – he has talked about ‘family isolation’, by which he means that the whole family of an person ill with corona (who has symptoms, not just positive test) should isolate for 2 weeks. Previously only ill person recommended to isolate.

I would be careful not to interpret Tegnell’s use of the word ‘lockdown’ as meaning how you think of it. Giesecke today described Sweden’s recommendations as a ‘soft lockdown’ whereas at no point has anyone been legally forced to do anything – everything has been recommendations…
So when Tegnell says lockdown, he really means temporary new recommendations. Eg he might say that gyms should restrict numbers, or sports clubs should not meet – but it will be up to them if they do it or not.

Remember, Tegnell is not in government and the government will act (if necessary legislate) in accordance with his recommendations, but Tegnell cannot make laws and cannot enact a legal lockdown!

146304 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to Adamb, 1, #1453 of 1950 🔗

Sweden shifts on no-lockdown strategyDr Anders Tegnell has now said that Sweden may implement localised lockdowns, but only for a maximum of two or three weeks

146305 ▶▶▶ Andrew, replying to Andrew, 1, #1454 of 1950 🔗

Yep bought out.

146352 ▶▶▶▶ Adamb, replying to Andrew, #1455 of 1950 🔗

Not only that: The agency has so far been sceptical of issuing a general recommendation for face masks to be worn in public, but, according to Dr Tegnell, it now sees a role for them in helping control local outbreaks.

146398 ▶▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Adamb, #1456 of 1950 🔗

well they working so well elsewhere in europe how could they ignore the evidence

146786 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Andrew, #1457 of 1950 🔗

Absolutely not…

146307 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Andrew, 1, #1458 of 1950 🔗

That isn’t a lockdown, it is quarantining a business or school.

146384 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Will, 1, #1459 of 1950 🔗