2020-09-24

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/09/24/latest-news-143/
Published2020-09-24T00:27:56
Last updated2020-09-26T09:53:52
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:06
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146976 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 3, #1 of 2331 🔗

Oh, boy!

146977 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to RyanM, 11, #2 of 2331 🔗

Imagine my thrill at being first. Now I need to go back and read everything. 🙂

146998 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to RyanM, 10, #3 of 2331 🔗

You need to get out more, ooops, apologies you are not allowed out are you

147000 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Cecil B, 10, #4 of 2331 🔗

Actually, minus the masks, things are pretty normal here. I think our attention has mostly shifted to the election.

I’m quite a bit more dismayed by what is being reported in UK and elsewhere, because I suspect that if hospitalizations/deaths rose in any meaningful way in Europe, we would be “proactive,” here. CV is basically gone in my state, and if it stays that way, these ongoing measures will not be tolerated.

147205 ▶▶▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to RyanM, 3, #5 of 2331 🔗

Which state? My wife is American, so we can emigrate if the worse comes to the worse. Are there any states which are ‘Sweden’ like in their approach?

147261 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to kenadams, 1, #6 of 2331 🔗

South Dakota. Plenty of space.

148248 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Julian, #7 of 2331 🔗

That seems to be the recommendation of the hour. I’m American, living in the UK these days. May be visiting your state sometime soon-ish.

147264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to kenadams, 2, #8 of 2331 🔗

Any state not run by Democrats.
Avoid the West coast, i.e. California, Oregon, Washington.

147367 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to Lms23, #9 of 2331 🔗

Thanks. Will do some research.

147752 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to kenadams, 1, #10 of 2331 🔗

Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

148633 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to kenadams, 4, #11 of 2331 🔗

I don’t know what things are like in the rest of the country, but I don’t think anywhere is as bad as the UK. I live in Washington State, which is one of the most liberal states in the Union, but I’m living my life pretty much like normal, with the exception of masks. I have family in Montana and Idaho. Idaho is almost fully open in most places, and Montana is doing fine… The mask thing has really taken off, which is discouraging, but I’ve never worn one and I don’t put them on my kids. I wear a bandanna around my neck.

With all of the stupid rioting, the death of Ruth Ginsburg, and this horrible mess of an election, people don’t really have much interest in a pandemic that ended in July. Public schools are opening up (with a bunch of horribly stupid restrictions) in a few weeks… To be honest, considering the season, my life isn’t really impacted much at all. I work in a law office and we’re behaving like normal (my practice is pretty unique, so not much impacted by this stuff). Court is online, which is awful, but we’ve all kind of gotten used to it. This won’t last much past Christmas if coronavirus numbers don’t spike over the winter.

149258 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to kenadams, #12 of 2331 🔗

Have you looked into getting a spousal green card? I don’t know what your position is on vaccination at this point, but it’s a thing that is absolutely necessary for the green card application.

147213 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to RyanM, 3, #13 of 2331 🔗

I think we need to get a worldwide view of this so thanks.

149226 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RyanM, 2, #14 of 2331 🔗

CV is basically gone in the UK, but unfortunately the government is still here.

147750 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RyanM, -12, #15 of 2331 🔗

Stupid person you are.

148250 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Rowan, 3, #16 of 2331 🔗

You’re a charmer!

148636 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Rowan, #17 of 2331 🔗

🙂 I’ve been told that before… I’m a little curious why , though.

149317 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RyanM, #18 of 2331 🔗

Sorry, just feeling a bit peevish today and your post was there.

149316 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Rowan, -1, #19 of 2331 🔗

OK sorry, I get the message and take it all back.

146992 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to RyanM, 25, #20 of 2331 🔗

DAILY TELEGRAPH Revealed: Sir Patrick Vallance has £600,000 shareholding in firm contracted to develop vaccines
Government denies claims of potential conflict of interest, maintaining he is not involved in commercial decisions on coronavirus vaccines

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/

Boris Johnson initially described Civod as “and invisible enemy”. Obvious his eyesight has improved since then. He can now “see a second wave coming from Spain”.

This is where I go to get my eyes tested:
GlaxoSmithKline (GSK)
Harmire Rd,
Barnard Castle DL12 8DT

147185 ▶▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 13, #21 of 2331 🔗

Noticeable that the DT didn’t allow comments on that article! Also, why “potential” conflict of interest? Isn’t it a flagrant conflict of interest that should see him resign or be removed from post immediately? Or is our political establishment so corrupt everyone just shrugs this off?

147758 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #22 of 2331 🔗

The DT takes stacks of Bill Gate’s cash, so it has to be nuanced.

149017 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Rowan, #23 of 2331 🔗

Any details?

149318 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to OKUK, -1, #24 of 2331 🔗

Three and a half million dollars.

146993 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to RyanM, 53, #25 of 2331 🔗

Dear Conservative MPs

We can’t live like this.

We can’t plan anything.

We can’t plan anything for the next day because a rule might change and it will suddenly become illegal.

Your fellow Conservative MPs must be getting thousand of emails from desperate people with their businesses on the brink, with somebody dying of cancer because the weren’t treated while we were “saving the NHS”.

You and your fellow Conservative MPs have to work quickly to remove the Prime Minister from office before he destroys the country completely

Your constituent

147001 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 24, #26 of 2331 🔗

Sorry to disappoint but MP’s don’t give a flying fuck about you

147266 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 8, #27 of 2331 🔗

They care about being re-elected though

147336 ▶▶▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Julian, 6, #28 of 2331 🔗

I don’t think there will ever be another election and if there is only those who have the digital health certificate will be allowed to vote.

147760 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Julian, 1, #29 of 2331 🔗

There will be no elections.

147272 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cecil B, 7, #30 of 2331 🔗

I don’t even get an acknowledgement from my MP.

Doesn’t stop me emailing, though.

147329 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jill, replying to Lms23, 8, #31 of 2331 🔗

Me too. Mine is Layla Moran and she is ‘zero covid’ as well as ‘net zero’ so basically ‘zero humanity’. These people are completely out of touch and they just ignore our emails.

147676 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Jill, 7, #32 of 2331 🔗

Mine is Caroline Ansell. Add her to the list of non replying MPs. Sent her three over the past six months – not a dicky bird. Maybe we should start a directory of MPs who take the money but do Sweet FA

148823 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eve, replying to Jill, #33 of 2331 🔗

My MP is BoJo.

148265 ▶▶▶▶ Glyn, replying to Cecil B, 1, #34 of 2331 🔗

My MP replied to my letter immediately and expressed her own alarm. There is a growing contingent of Conservative MPs who are rallying ready to stand up to the PM and Cabinet. When they are given the chance that is.

148459 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Glyn, #35 of 2331 🔗

Mine always replies promptly and addresses the points in my email.
He’s very cautious in his answers though, so I’m not sure he can be relied on to rebel.

147025 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #36 of 2331 🔗

Agreed

147041 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #37 of 2331 🔗

Iv already written saying similar

147125 ▶▶▶▶ Hampshire Sceptic, replying to Nic, 14, #38 of 2331 🔗

Unfortunately most Conservative MPs seem to think as the next election is some 4 years away we shall have forgotten by then how useless they have been. I for one will certainly not forget and have told my MP so and that I shall never vote for him again.

147297 ▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Hampshire Sceptic, 3, #39 of 2331 🔗

Better to tell him you’ll vote for his nearest rival.

147335 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #40 of 2331 🔗

3rd email went to my MP yesterday and not had a single response to any of them.

148264 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #41 of 2331 🔗

Thanks for that. Edited it a bit and sent it to my MP who will probably send me a patronising response like he did that last time I wrote to him.

146978 OKUK, 1, #42 of 2331 🔗

Looks like I’m turd. 🙁

146980 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 29, #43 of 2331 🔗

That thing about Tegnell is very discouraging.

146988 ▶▶ Steve, replying to RyanM, 18, #44 of 2331 🔗

Not surprising really. The level of international pressure on Sweden to conform must be huge.

147026 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to RyanM, 15, #45 of 2331 🔗

Yeah I’m worried about that, I wonder who has twisted his arm? Praying he won’t cave in.

148267 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Moomin, 2, #46 of 2331 🔗

Threats against him and his family, most likely. Can’t blame him for having to protect himself.

147029 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to RyanM, 15, #47 of 2331 🔗

Don’t be too disappointed the telegraph has done this before it wasn’t true then and I suspect it is not true now.
Either complete lies or mistranslation and wild exaggeration

147043 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to 6097 Smith W, 4, #48 of 2331 🔗

Remember the telegraph has funding from bill gates

147122 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Nic, 1, #49 of 2331 🔗

I could really do with a source for that if you have one to hand

147302 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichT, replying to anon, 2, #50 of 2331 🔗

B&MG Foundation funded Daily Telegraph £2.7M in 2017. They have Funded many media outlets including the BBC. https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Grants-Database/Grants/2017/11/OPP1179441 .

149233 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to anon, #51 of 2331 🔗

Go to the the Bill and Melinda Gates website, it’s somewhere on there. Bill has nothing to hide, he just wants honest journalism.

149264 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Rowan, #52 of 2331 🔗

Nothing to hide, are you having a laugh? You mean like all those flights on the Lolita Express going to the pedo island?

149229 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nic, #53 of 2331 🔗

Like the BBC and Guardian.

147079 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to 6097 Smith W, 7, #54 of 2331 🔗

It has happened a few times – it feels like an attempt either to bounce Sweden into the wrong course or to let the uninformed believe they’ve changed course so we’re prevented from using them as a positive example.

147066 ▶▶ Will, replying to RyanM, 5, #55 of 2331 🔗

He hasn’t actually initiated a lockdown yet. A week today the plan is to extend the limit on gatherings from 50 to 500; I can’t help thinking these suggestions are horse trading to facilitate that development happening.

147103 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to RyanM, 6, #56 of 2331 🔗

It appears those recent meetings between Tegnell and high level people in other countries were not about Tegnell ‘schooling’ them, but them reading Tegnell’s fortune.

147257 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Ovis, 1, #57 of 2331 🔗

Even the mention of masks though suggests, what – that he actually thinks they work? Or even worse – he believes in the placebo ‘they increase confidence’ idea.

147260 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to RyanM, 7, #58 of 2331 🔗

I have posted a lengthy reply/rebuttal to Toby’s information re Sweden later in this thread!

147740 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Carrie, #59 of 2331 🔗

Please link to it

147924 ▶▶▶▶ AndrewB, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #60 of 2331 🔗

Yes, please do!

148318 ▶▶ Basics, replying to RyanM, 3, #61 of 2331 🔗

Simon Dolan has Met Tegnell today reports it is all BS and completely untrue.

149038 ▶▶ Paulo Costa, replying to RyanM, #62 of 2331 🔗

Not so fast…
There’s a plan, since 1st September, from Swedish Health Agency Insatser vid nya utbrott av covid-19 | Regeringsuppdrag (only available in swedish), where is mentioned this (translated):

Situational adaptation of face mask in the event of a deteriorating epidemiological situation

Face maks must always be seen as a complement to other more central risk-reducing measures. Being at home for symptoms, quick sampling, good hand hygiene and keeping your distance from others are still the most important efforts to reduce the risk of spreading the infection. Despite the efforts made, there may be situations where it is difficult to avoid close contact with other people for a long time. Public transport can be such an environment where facemask is judged to be a relevant measure in certain situations.
The assessment of which initiatives, including recommendations on the use of oral protection in society, are relevant in the event of a deteriorating epidemiological situation should be decided in a dialogue between the Swedish Public Health Agency, the Infection Control Unit and additional regional actors.
Examples of issues in such a dialogue on face protection are:
• Can face mask in this case be a measure that reduces the risk of further spread of infection?
• Are face masks possible in this environment?
• What other initiatives are available? Is it possible, for example, to make efforts so that you can keep your distance.
• Which individuals move in the environment? Is it, for example, an environment with individuals from a risk group. (…)

Face mask can be used to reduce the risk of infection for people in risk groups if the special recommendations for risk groups are eased, to reduce the isolation of these people. In some situations, such as a visit to the hairdresser, the activity itself means that close contact can not be avoided. In these cases, face masks used by the operator can reduce the risk of pre- and asymptomatic transmission. We are currently analyzing the issue of the specific recommendations for risk groups. (…)

The Swedish Public Health Agency is reviewing the possibility of further restrictions regarding work, schooling or participation in other activities for adult household contacts who live with a person with a confirmed covid-19. Such restrictions may be quarantined or other rules of conduct in accordance with the Communicable Diseases Act and mean that adults in one and the same household must stay at home and thus avoid close contact with persons other than those in the same household. Persons who are unable to work due to a quarantine decision or rules of conduct may also be granted carrier compensation according to the Social Insurance Code. Such an effort can thus constitute additional protection for particularly vulnerable groups. Further investigation into the forms of such restrictions is required before implementation. (…)

146981 Allen, replying to Allen, 48, #63 of 2331 🔗

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again- it must be understood that Covid is not an epidemiological event it is a Business Model. It was a manufactured “pandemic” from day one. If you look back in recent history it has become almost a yearly thing, since 2004, to fabricate an epidemic or a “near” pandemic for the benefit of Big Pharma and assorted financial Leviathans.

One has to begin with that assumption to comprehend what is happening full throttle right before our eyes.

“Here I have secret contracts that were signed in Germany between GlaxoSmithKline and the German state. As a simple Member of Parliament, officially I am not allowed to view these contracts. They were posted on the Internet by whistle blowers in Germany.

These contracts specify exactly what needs to happen when phase 6 is announced: what amounts of vaccine doses the states have to buy, etc.. Such contracts were concluded by most states before the criteria have been changed.”

Andrej Hunko, German MP in a speech at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe on 24.06.2010 speaking about the bogus Swine Flu “pandemic” of 2009.

Read this interview with epidemiologist Tom Jefferson:

‘A Whole Industry Is Waiting For A Pandemic’

https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-epidemiologist-tom-jefferson-a-whole-industry-is-waiting-for-a-pandemic-a-637119.html

SPIEGEL: Who do you mean? The World Health Organization (WHO)?

Jefferson: The WHO and public health officials, virologists and the pharmaceutical companies. They’ve built this machine around the impending pandemic. And there’s a lot of money involved, and influence, and careers, and entire institutions! And all it took was one of these influenza viruses to mutate to start the machine grinding.

146995 ▶▶ BobT, replying to Allen, 15, #64 of 2331 🔗

Allen, I have heard all the theories about why this is happening and I have even come up with a few of my own but your argument is the most convincing and plausible.

147015 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Allen, 17, #65 of 2331 🔗

Yes, like a lot of other manufactured ‘diseases or disorders’. Made up to make BigPharma very powerful and very rich. This industry has the blood of many, many people on its hands.

147299 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 2, #66 of 2331 🔗

Restless legs.

148533 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #67 of 2331 🔗

Magnesium oil!

147387 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Allen, 3, #68 of 2331 🔗

(As on other subjects) Jon Rappoport is excellent on exactly these kind of shenanigans.

147687 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Allen, 7, #69 of 2331 🔗

It’s been the model for the industrial war complex for years. Manufacture the crisis, provide the solution.

149014 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Allen, 1, #70 of 2331 🔗

Herd immunity is the root cause ofbthat, as it is not based upon medical evidence, but on a computer midel, it us basically an invention of the vaccine industry and its epidimiologists.
Without it being ‘scientifically’ accepted instead of being thorouggly questioned, there would be no case for panic and any vaccinations outside of the truly at risk.
See Gatti&Morinati or CHD/RKjr on that.

146982 Dale, replying to Dale, 11, #71 of 2331 🔗

Contemplating the dark possibility that Tegnall might fold.

147267 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dale, 7, #72 of 2331 🔗

Remember that the world MSM have vested interests in Sweden failing and will report *anything* that helps that aim, whether true or not…

It is difficult for Gates (for example) to ‘buy’ the Swedish government, because they are not running the pandemic response..
The government cannot easily sack Tegnell, whilst his policies are actually working..

147668 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Carrie, 2, #73 of 2331 🔗

Thanks for fighting the good fight, beginning to believe all the 77th Brigade stuff.

147340 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Dale, 3, #74 of 2331 🔗

I think we’re toast if it happens. If the only way of showing there is another way out of this goes out of the window it’s GAME OVER.

146983 Nsklent, replying to Nsklent, 37, #75 of 2331 🔗

The article regarding the polls, and the desire for more restrictions. Who are the people who complete these polls, numbers as a percentage of population etc., as they do not reflect the opinions of anyone I have spoken to.

146984 ▶▶ Nottingham69, replying to Nsklent, 18, #76 of 2331 🔗

IPSOS and Yougov polling is so narrowly channeled they miss the real mood every time. Leftist operators, leftist respondents dependent overwhelmingly on state for income send the results they want.

Work from home is a complete nonsense, so is the full closure of sporting events I don’t believe either has majority support and I am certain any new shutdown of business does not.

These are Public Sector results by those who think they have permanent insulation of full pay. Some have but not when the inflation and interest rates eventually bite.

147135 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nottingham69, 30, #77 of 2331 🔗

I will say it again.Opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion not measuring it.

147565 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #78 of 2331 🔗

Always have been!

148593 ▶▶▶▶ Watt, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #79 of 2331 🔗

Exactly. Another ploy of a poll to further acquiescence. From the Mindspace/Sage playbook, methinks. Behavioural psychology at work.

148295 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Nottingham69, 1, #80 of 2331 🔗

I went back to my account on YouGov when I heard they were polling about this sort of thing. Every time I log into my account, all I get is celebrity polls and other nonsense. Nothing real.

146986 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Nsklent, 18, #81 of 2331 🔗

I am dubious as to the accuracy of these polls.

146989 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Nsklent, 14, #82 of 2331 🔗

I do wonder who is voting on these polls? They don’t seem to agree with what everyone I meet seems to think, many of whom seem surprised that we’re still doing things like taking photos of the shopping deliveries instead of signing or just want things to go back to normal. All the covid propaganda in peoples windows is long gone as are requests about vulnerable people and self isolating instructions. Perhaps people are just saying what they think the pollsters want to hear?

147045 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Steve, 4, #83 of 2331 🔗

Iv never been asked

147084 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Steve, 9, #84 of 2331 🔗

The snap polls (on YouGov at least) are open to anyone who visits the site. No personal or profiling information is gathered, making a mockery of the claim they are weighted, and if you keep visiting the site you can answer more than once. I suspect shills for the Government and others with financial interests are being paid/encouraged to drum the numbers up.

147172 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Andrew Fish, 6, #85 of 2331 🔗

I complete them daily, sometimes multiple times.

https://today.yougov.com/opi/myfeed#/all

No registration required. Results are scary but members also get paid to complete surveys so very appealing to to those sat at home, comfortable with all this.

147309 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Sarigan, 2, #86 of 2331 🔗

Thanks Offlands. From the site:
JOIN THE PANEL TODAY!
As a member of the YouGov panel you will be part of a global community of people who share their opinions in return for points and rewards. It couldn’t be easier: we email you a survey link, you complete the survey at your convenience and earn points for doing so! You can redeem your points for great rewards.
It is free to join – and to welcome you to the YouGov panel we’re offering 2,000 points as a sign-up bonus!
+ Join
I’m already a member of YouGov, log me in

147002 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nsklent, 7, #87 of 2331 🔗

Me neither, of a dozen or so conversations yesterday all were largely sceptical including one with a chap whose 40 year old female client that had the Covid early and is still not quite right.

147003 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 15, #88 of 2331 🔗

Same here. Maybe they have some means of targeting bedwetters, whom I sekdom meet with because they seldom come out of their holes?

147006 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to annie, 17, #89 of 2331 🔗

Or they just make it up. Why bother contacting anyone when they can write up this bollocks whilst sat at a desk

147013 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 7, #90 of 2331 🔗

While sat at their kitchen table.

147038 ▶▶▶▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to Cecil B, 14, #91 of 2331 🔗

YouGov contacted me and my husband. You can imagine what boxes we ticked. If there is ever a section to write in, I give a full on rant. My views aren’t ever reflected in the results. We must be a tiny minority and everyone else they contact must be bedwetters. What I’m saying is, how representative are these polls if there are loads of sceptical people out here but the polls are all saying there aren’t?

148131 ▶▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to karenovirus, 2, #92 of 2331 🔗

I gently slipped in a couple of skeptical views to some friends of mine who aren’t really ‘political’ and had I down as in favour of a hard lockdown. To my surprise not only did they not argue against it, they were appalled by the consequences of the limits on weddings.

148547 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lyra Silvertongue, #93 of 2331 🔗

Yes 30 at a funeral but 15 at a wedding is nonsensical.

147032 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Nsklent, 9, #94 of 2331 🔗

You can sign up and take part. Bozo and his handlers watch the polls very closely and if they started moving against them they might change course.
Of course the results might be completed fabricated

148181 ▶▶▶ Jonathan M, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #95 of 2331 🔗

I suspect the questions are loaded. For example, if you asked “Are you in favour of a second lockdown if it would save thousands of lives?” you would get many more people to agree than you would if the question was “Are you in favour of a second lockdown?”

147075 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nsklent, 7, #96 of 2331 🔗

I’ve always said that YouGov polls are suspect. Ditto IPSOS Mori, the questions are rigged and ditto the participants.

147342 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Nsklent, 4, #97 of 2331 🔗

I think the polls are part of the propaganda toolkit personally. Keep those who are having second thoughts inline.

147581 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Nsklent, 5, #98 of 2331 🔗

I was on the ‘Youguv’ polling rota for some years but they stopped sending me them as soon as I started to express opinions that didn’t fit their narrative. All lies and rubbish and just intended to ‘push’ a particular line. That is why they are known in knowledgeable circles as ‘push polls’ as against opinion polls.

146987 BobT, replying to BobT, 19, #99 of 2331 🔗

A few thoughts on PCR testing and false positives (FPR).

The FPR appears to be a classified state secret which the Government do not want to reveal and it seems that anyone who does so will end up sharing a prison cell with Julian Assange.

Much has been written and surmised about the sensitivity of the test and whether it is designed to pick up viable virus, dead virus, infected or infectious people. Without transparency from PHE or NHS we just do not know the answer which in a supposedly democratic society is a travesty.

Nevertheless, there are a few clues from which we can sensibly derive a range of values for the FPR. In this analysis I am quoting FPR as a percentage of positive test results otherwise our Minister of Health will not undersand. Since the spring of this year PHE’s figures have shown a consistent pattern where the Pillar 2 tests have a positivity rate four times that of Pillar 1 tests. This is counterintuitive when one considers that Pillar 1 tests are taken in a healthcare setting from people who are symptomatic where one should presumably find more positivity than in a community setting. Ignoring this for now, would it be reasonable for me to assume therefore that, as a minimum (and assuming that Pillar 1 tests have zero false positives), 3 out of 4 Pillar 2 tests are false positives?

This 75% of positive test results being false would then be the lower bound, the upper one would be 100% and the real figure would be somewhere in between. Of course the 100% figure would mean that there were no traces of the virus left anywhere which is unlikely so lets take the upper bound at say 90%.

What this means is that, as a minimum, for every person who is actually positive for carrying the virus ( but not necessarily contagious) there are 3 others along with their families and other contacts who have had their freedoms, their livelihoods and even their mental well being taken from them and, as a maximum, 9 others along with their familes and contacts.

Today, there were about six thousand positives reported so again taking my minimum bound and assuming (guessing) 10 contacts each then 45,000 people will be unnecessarily quarantined. Thats for just one day. Extend that to the 14 day quarantine period thats 630,000 or 10% of the population.

With a few thousand more daily ‘positives’ and using my upper bound we will soon have the whole population in permanent quarantine.

Brilliant!

147083 ▶▶ Will, replying to BobT, 8, #100 of 2331 🔗

Do you not think that was always the intention of the test and trace program? The plan since March has been to manufacture a scenario whereby the government and it’s corrupt advisors can claim credit for “beating” the virus.

147183 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Will, 4, #101 of 2331 🔗

Hancock R4 Today, testing won’t be fully up and running until the end of October because the labs have run out of chemicals.

147395 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to karenovirus, 4, #102 of 2331 🔗

You will have noticed that the number of pillar 2 tests has been significantly down in the last couple of days, probably the reason. The 6000+ reported positives is of course the one the media pick up. Some of those will be from up to a week ago (and that itself probably makes them suspect) and the sample date figures are going no higher than 3500 at the moment.

147280 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Will, 6, #103 of 2331 🔗

They DON’T want to “beat” the virus. They want to keep the pretence going until they are sure enough of us are fully willing ready to submit to the vaccine.

147570 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Will, 4, #104 of 2331 🔗

But putting half your population into mandatory quarantine doesn’t beat the virus.
It prolongs susceptibility, thereby prolonging the crisis, and furthers the economic meltdown.

Then for good measure add in:-

“Brexit: UK ‘sleepwalking into disaster’ over border plans, hauliers warn”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54021421

“Industry warns of Brexit border chaos”
https://www.ft.com/content/49af99f3-4669-4654-a444-4e5e9635791c

All solutions to ‘beating’ the virus are being studiously avoided.

(Until a final solution…)

147244 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to BobT, 1, #105 of 2331 🔗

You may want to look at COVID-19: PHE laboratory assessments of molecular tests in which PHE assessed a number of their lab tests. I found as a result of someone else’s FOI request on the WhatDoTheyKnow.com website. I’ve only just seen it myself so will take me a little while to work through … .

147415 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #106 of 2331 🔗

Executive summary: out of eleven tests assessed in the laboratory, all scored zero FPR out of 195 negative samples. That suggests an FPR on tests under lab conditions of less than 0.5%, with tyoical 95% credibility upper bound of 2% on each assessment. These are the analytical or lab-based figures. As the GoS study observes, the operational conditions are also a significant source of error: they estimate this as 2,3% FPR on the basis of evidence from previous testing campaigns. That includes errors caused by poor handling of samples, cross-contamination in the field or in the lab, mis-labelling, and other human and technical errors before the sample gets into the test, on top of any errors coming from the test itself.

147259 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to BobT, 1, #107 of 2331 🔗

“630,000 or 10% of the population.”? 1%?

147908 ▶▶▶ BobT, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #108 of 2331 🔗

Ooops. Yes, out by a factor of ten. I learned this from Neil Ferguson!

146990 john, replying to john, 22, #109 of 2331 🔗

It’s good to see the illustrious Melbourne police outnumbering and bullying pregnant women and pensioners again, for the very serious offence of sitting on a park bench. On the long list of despicable behaviour during 2020, I think Dan Andrews and the Melbourne police come out number one, with Witless and Vallance a close second. But the majority support this…
On another note, Russell Lewin is bang on in his analysis. Because the majority no longer understand risk and are shielded from the inherent dangers of life, they over react to what is in essence a minor thing. Sadly, any prior objections to the “nanny state” didn’t last past the first minor threat, at the first sign of which the majority went to hide behind nanny’s skirts, and cried out to be sent to bed early without any supper in exchange for protection from the big scary monster outside.

147004 ▶▶ annie, replying to john, 12, #110 of 2331 🔗

Agree on both your points.
When this is over (and I do mean WHEN), and the great Covid academic industry gets into gear, Hellbourne will be its star turn, rather as Auschwitz is for the academic Holocaust industry.
In both cases, the evidence against the criminals is colossal, overwhelming. And yet the Holocaust has its deniers. Will it be possible to deny Hellbourne? We must see. to it that neither this nor any of the other Covid crimes is ever forgiven or forgotten,.

147008 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to annie, 13, #111 of 2331 🔗

Yesterday Raab earned his seat in the dock

147014 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 13, #112 of 2331 🔗

That dock is going to be crowded. Maybe we should try ’em in batches, as they did in France during the Terror, and have a fleet of tumbrils standing by.

Actually, the comparison with the revolutionary Terror is interesting, because it was the first example of a government deliberately engineering terror as a weapon to use against its own people.

147021 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 8, #113 of 2331 🔗

That terror was ‘in the peoples own best interests because they did not know how to be free.’

147131 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, 5, #114 of 2331 🔗

The worry is Napoleon came after the terror

147042 ▶▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to annie, 8, #115 of 2331 🔗

Let us get the numbers assembled to get them into the dock. We should have started months, if not years or decades ago.

This Saturday, the day after tomorrow, 12 Noon, Trafalgar Square, might well be the last chance.

147049 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to annie, 2, #116 of 2331 🔗

Shame pierrepoint isn’t around he hung them in batches.

147060 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nic, 7, #117 of 2331 🔗

I would volunteer, what I would lack in skill I will make up in enthusiasm.

147059 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to annie, 5, #118 of 2331 🔗

The Soviet Union took 74 years Annie 😔 I haven’t got that long 😶

147490 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #119 of 2331 🔗

Difference is that the USSR did not replace some liberal democracy, but was actually BETTER than what came before. Stalin stabilised the country after Lenin, who at least ended the war. Khruschev was a more benign ruler than Stalin. Brezhnev continued the policy. Gorbachev was better than those he succeeded.

This hell is way, way WORSE than what came before. This is why it won’t last.

148138 ▶▶ Lyra Silvertongue, replying to john, 2, #120 of 2331 🔗

I wouldn’t read the ‘postcard from Angola’ on this site, it makes Australia look like a Sunday School play. Reportedly more people have died from police brutality then the virus itself.

146991 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #121 of 2331 🔗

DAILY TELEGRAPH Revealed: Sir Patrick Vallance has £600,000 shareholding in firm contracted to develop vaccines
Government denies claims of potential conflict of interest, maintaining he is not involved in commercial decisions on coronavirus vaccines

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/

Boris Johnson initially described Civod as “and invisible enemy”. Obvious his eyesight has improved since then. He can now “see a second wave coming from Spain”.

This is where I go to get my eyes tested:
GlaxoSmithKline (GSK)
Harmire Rd,
Barnard Castle DL12 8DT

147011 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 10, #122 of 2331 🔗

Not a conflict of interest? No, that he stands to make an awful lot of money from his shareholding, no, not a conflict of interest at all. I despair.

And on your final point, why the hell wasn’t this flagged up by the MSM at the time of Dominic Cummings’ visit?

147034 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to kh1485, 2, #123 of 2331 🔗

*sigh*
GSK is not going to make a ton of money off a vaccine. It is supplying pretty cheap adjuvant to several putative vaccine makers, to try and boost the efficacy of their antigens. If any one them work, they have deals in place to supply the adjuvant to governments. The price leaked in the US and it’s a few dollars a dose. No profit to be made there. GSK share price might – on approval of a vaccine it is involved with – peak slightly in the near term (which won’t help Vallance who cannot sell those shares if they are tied up in long term restricted share plans) but once people twig there is no near term profit to be made, they will go back to worrying about the lack of sustainable earnings growth, and it will go back to where it is.

The site in Barnard Castle is a factory. All senior management are in London. Nobody there senior enough for Cummings to meet with.

I can see how people love to make a conspiracy theory. But other than let’s say Moderna, whose technology would be validated if their mRNA approach is validated, no pharma company is going to benefit share price wise from this pandemic. Ultimately there will be less money around to pay for any new drugs as all economies everywhere are going to be fucked. So more pricing pressure, which leads to rotation out of the sector, and share price under performance.

Some companies think they can make more money off a therapeutic approach, but I think they are smoking something. There won’t be enough patients soon. Not enough people in hospital with this thing….or at least, not enough young healthy people that governments & insurers are going to pay for expensive drugs for.

147068 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sophie123, 33, #124 of 2331 🔗

I’m not a conspiracy theorist so save your patronising *sigh*. Just one of the little people whose life has been ruined by BigPharma and cretinous doctors who prescribe very dangerous drugs to people who do not need them. I live with a crushing grief every single day of my life because of these charlatans; I had to read my mother’s post mortem report because of these charlatans; I was blocked and treated with contempt by a medical establishment that views people who have the temerity to question their views.

Their aims are financial pure and simple. Nothing you can say will persuade me otherwise. They would not be trying to develop a vaccine were there not pots of money to be made.

147284 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to kh1485, 5, #125 of 2331 🔗

Sorry I didnt mean to come across as patronising. I am just fed up with people thinking all pharma companies care about is money.

They have to care about it quite a lot because their shareholders demand it. But a lot of people – I would go so far as to say most – working in the pharma industry are doing it for the love of the science and to discover new medicines that help people. Thousands of people work in this sector. They are not bad people. I know many of them.

I know the drugs don’t always work, they ALL have side effects and it’s always a balance of risks decision on whether to take any medicine or vaccine. But it’s not wrong to want to make better ones.

Personally I am not sure a vaccine is even needed for coronavirus. It would have to be a fantastically safe and efficacious one for it to be worth taking.

147296 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to Sophie123, 7, #126 of 2331 🔗

So thats alright then they are all saints, like the TikTokkers of the NHS. Maybe we should clap for big pharma every Sunday. Whilst the people on the ground might be caring and dedicated, do you think the board room is? S K B used to be 3 companies, and they have swallowed up all the competition slowy to get as big as they are. I must assume that you are gainfully employed within the industry.

147311 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sophie123, 13, #127 of 2331 🔗

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.

“Drugs don’t always work”, you’re telling me and sometimes they actually kill people. I watched my once healthy, vivacious, fiesty mother reduced to a pitiful shell by long-term taking and belief in dangerous, addictive psychotropic drugs. Prescribed by doctors who thought nothing of the consequences and cared even less. When I tried to object, over a period of 36 years, my concerns were crushed and dismissed. Box-ticking and protocol overruled the legitimate concerns of a loving daughter. My mum died two and a half years ago. I will never forgive the bastards who got rich on the snake-oil she became addicted to, never.

147368 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 15, #128 of 2331 🔗

These were the horrors that my mum became addicted to: valium, librium, largactil, mogadon, ativan, librium etc. I remember the names well because they framed my formative years. My mother didn’t need this crap, all she needed was a bloody good divorce lawyer.

Sorry for the rant but to portray BigPharma as some sort of saintly enterprise, there for the good of mankind, gets my goat.

147385 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichT, replying to Sophie123, 10, #129 of 2331 🔗

Whilst I am sure many people who work for big pharma are genuine, the companies themselves are riddled with corruption. Watch documentary “The Pharmacist” on Netflix, “Trust Who” on Amazon (Very boring but informative) and “Dirty Money” series 1 “Drug Short”.
Also look at the fines paid by big pharma for harm done. It has also been known for a long time that drug trials are easily manipulated, as often the drug companies are left to pick and choose which trials they publicise.

147404 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to RichT, 3, #130 of 2331 🔗

And also out of court settlements.

147655 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Sophie123, 1, #131 of 2331 🔗

Companies go bust if they stop caring about money, it’s what they are for. ‘Get woke, go broke.’

147699 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Sophie123, 10, #132 of 2331 🔗

If you have not read “Deadly Medicines and Organised Crime”, written by a Professor of Epidemiology and a former editor of the British Medical Journal, I strongly recommend it. The authors call the pharmaceutical industry – and these are their exact words – an “organised crime syndicate”. I guarantee you will never see the industry in the same light again.

This is from the introduction by Dr Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal.

“PRESCRIPTION DRUGS ARE THE THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH AFTER HEART DISEASE AND CANCER. In his latest ground-breaking book, Peter C Gotzsche exposes the pharmaceutical industries and their charade of fraudulent behaviour, both in research and marketing where the morally repugnant disregard for human lives is the norm. He convincingly draws close comparisons with the tobacco conglomerates, revealing the extraordinary truth behind efforts to confuse and distract the public and their politicians. The book addresses, in evidence-based detail, an extraordinary system failure caused by widespread crime, corruption, bribery and impotent drug regulation in need of radical reforms. “The main reason we take so many drugs is that drug companies don’t sell drugs, they sell lies about drugs. This is what makes drugs so different from anything else in life…Virtually everything we know about drugs is what the companies have chosen to tell us and our doctors…the reason patients trust their medicine is that they extrapolate the trust they have in their doctors into the medicines they prescribe. The patients don’t realise that, although their doctors may know a lot about diseases and human physiology and psychology, they know very, very little about drugs that hasn’t been carefully concocted and dressed up by the drug industry…If you don’t think the system is out of control, please email me and explain why drugs are the third leading cause of death…If such a hugely lethal epidemic had been caused by a new bacterium or a virus, or even one-hundredth of it, we would have done everything we could to get it under control.”

You are making the mistake of comparing well-intentioned minor players (and even chief pharma scientists are “minor” compared to the upper echelons), with the robber barons at the top.

Rather like saying that, because the counter staff in your local branch of Barclays are nice, decent people, those at the top of the industry MUST have honourable intentions. Look how the banksters treated us in 2008. WE were forced to bail these crooks out after they had lost a fortune through dodgy dealing.

I must refer to the author, computer scientist and polymath Martin Geddes, summarising the appalling way our world is being run:

“There has been a breathtaking level of criminality and corruption, global in scale, sickening in scope, generational in development. Essentially, our society has been hijacked by forces of evil, with government by organised crime cartels, using media tools of deception to pacify and manipulate the public.”

147710 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Gracie Knoll, 2, #133 of 2331 🔗

GK: thank you.

148667 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sophie123, #134 of 2331 🔗

The people you know are presumably nowhere near senior management level.

147137 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Sophie123, 7, #135 of 2331 🔗

The devil is in the adjuvant.

147160 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Sophie123, 15, #136 of 2331 🔗

No profit to be made on, say 10p profit on each dose times 65m people by multiple vaccines? As an accountant, I disagree.

147192 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Ewan Duffy, 9, #137 of 2331 🔗

Vaccines are less profitable than small molecule drugs, but as Ewan says the volumes are huge. GSK’s vaccine business is huge and very much the jewel in an otherwise bare portfolio.

I don’t think there’s a great conspiracy or fraud going on but as a big pharma man he will naturally be inclined to take the drug or vaccine approach, which is very likely to be the wrong one in the case of covid.

147253 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #138 of 2331 🔗

OK not none, but the margins on vaccines are much lower than pharmaceuticals.

High volume, low price vaccines don’t drive profit growth for big companies. A 10p profit on 65m vaccines, is £6.5m. GSK’s operating profit last year was £9 billion. An extra £6.5m isn’t going to drive the share price.

I am also an accountant. And former equity analyst. I know what the shareholders care about.

147542 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Sophie123, 5, #139 of 2331 🔗

A 10p profit equates to £6.5m profit. A £10 profit is actually much more realistic i.e. £650 m Two shots? Make that £1.3b. Two shots a year?
Make that £1.3b per annum. AZN have already had $1.2b from the US Govt for AZD1222 development, and possibly as much or more from various European countries. Every penny is underwritten by the taxpayer in other words.
Shareholders care about bottom line; not a lot else. Big Pharma is just riding the coat tails of this virus, and is being encouraged to do so.
I find it strange to suggest that BP would like to be more socially responsible, but the shareholders won’t allow it!
(I’m sure there are many, many lower level conscientious scientists and researchers in Big Pharma, the FDA, the EMA, the WHO etc etc, but they have to do as told.)

148691 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sophie123, #140 of 2331 🔗

If GSK weren’t making a healthy profit, they’d be doing something else that did. QED

149306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Sophie123, #141 of 2331 🔗

The profits can be much lower than other pharmaceuticals, because they are more-or-less forced upon everyone in a population, so they scale better once they are added to a vaccine schedule. But beyond the direct profit, they don’t have the cost of doing business that other drugs have in the way of law suits, because the risk has all been outsourced to governments who have vaccine courts to settle with all the vaccine damaged people and parents of dead children. The US courts alone have paid out over 4 billion so far since the 1986 law let them off the hook for the quality, efficacy and safety of their own products.

The safety trials for these vaccines are a fucking joke, and I’m typing this straight off a full week of reading the studies for the HibB/MenC vaccine. One study was done on adults who were observed for 30 minutes following the injection……. 30 minutes! We give this to babies! Longitudinal studies are nonexistent, and a vaccinated versus unvaccinated study has never been done. Never…. not once…. so we haven’t the first clue what effects there may or may not be on the development of the human brain with exposure to repeated injections, because all deaths and injuries thought to be due to vaccine are written off as “occurring in the general population.” Yes…. occurring in the general population that is entirely vaccinated.

If it were the case that vaccination leads to a lifetime of compromised health in even a small sample of the population – who pretty much all have vaccination forced on them in one way or another – then the “small profits” on vaccine (which are not small at all in my opinion) are peanuts compared to patients for life.

147286 ▶▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to Sophie123, 8, #142 of 2331 🔗

Excuse me, but what is say 10 or 20 or even 50 cents profit a dose when we are talking billions of doses? And forever, COVID season will join flu season. So yes its alright there is nothing to play for here they are doing the work ‘pro bono’ m@rse they are

147743 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Iansn, 4, #143 of 2331 🔗

Vaccines are reputed to make 50 billion dollars annually for the drug companies, with no advertising costs. Once mandated on the childhood schedule, they stay there turning over a nice regular profit each year.

149311 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Kate, #144 of 2331 🔗

Oh yes, no advertising cost…. that’s an excellent point I hadn’t thought of.

148662 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sophie123, #145 of 2331 🔗

It was lockdown. The London managers may conceivably have removed themselves from the capital.

149290 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Sophie123, #146 of 2331 🔗

“A few dollars a dose.” How many billions of people are due to receive this vaccine?? A few dollars a dose, Nooooooo….. no money to be made here…. never mind they already had eye-watering government handouts, but it’s all a public service, not for profit at all!

As for people “loving to make a conspiracy theory”….. ummmm…. have you actually ever held a conversation with a “conspiracy theorist”? You might as well have just said, “women love to be beaten by their husbands.” This stuff (which isn’t theory at all, because it’s all out there in plain sight for any glutton for punishment nerdy enough to read this boring shit) is like asking to be repeatedly traumatised day in and day out. The odd morning when you wake up and think everything is normal for awhile before you remember this is just the beginning…. are blissful. Have you had anyone close to you die? And then some days wake up, forgetting they are dead, and then remember they’re gone and have that crushing loss anew?

There is neither love nor fun in this. It’s a compulsion for accuracy and truth combined with a sensitive bullshit detector. Throw offspring into the mix, and there is absolutely no love or fun in it. It’s every minute consumed with the future of your children. Every goddamn minute, as if we’re back living in caves fending off wolves. Except then we had a tribe to protect each other. Now we’re individuals sounding the alarm that the wolves are circling, and instead of preparing for the attack, everyone says, “SHUT THE FUCK UP, WE DON’T WANT TO KNOW, LA LA LA LA LA.”

146994 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #147 of 2331 🔗

Dear Conservative MPs

We can’t live like this.

We can’t plan anything.

We can’t plan anything for the next day because a rule might change and it will suddenly become illegal.

Your fellow Conservative MPs must be getting thousand of emails from desperate people with their businesses on the brink, with somebody dying of cancer because the weren’t treated while we were “saving the NHS”.

You and your fellow Conservative MPs have to work quickly to remove the Prime Minister from office before he destroys the country completely

Your constituent

147019 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 4, #148 of 2331 🔗

Excellent. I wonder if any of them do venture onto this site. I hope so.

146996 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 33, #149 of 2331 🔗

Our first lockdown was for 3 weeks. It grew to 26 weeks.

The pig dictator has announced the new lockdown will be 6 months

If the new lockdown grows at the same rate as the first it will last 4 years 4 months

Is that exponential growth?

147022 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cecil B, 6, #150 of 2331 🔗

Must have been set by ferguson, it’s as accurate as his computer modeling.

146997 Samhurt, replying to Samhurt, 4, #151 of 2331 🔗

Sweden… looks like Alderan is about to be Death Star’d.

A bit of black despair, today.

147027 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Samhurt, 5, #152 of 2331 🔗

Let’s see. Carrie from Sweden didn’t seem to think it was as bad as the media suggested.

147052 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Jenny, 3, #153 of 2331 🔗

Agreed. The media has jumped on every blip in Sweden for a joyous bout of shroudwaving since this began. Don’t be swept along.

147276 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jenny, 3, #154 of 2331 🔗

I’ve written a longer post on this thread with more information, Jenny..

146999 Tom Blackburn, 1, #155 of 2331 🔗
147005 annie, replying to annie, 27, #156 of 2331 🔗

Knowing what the majority of our MPs are like, I have my doubts about signing the petition for ‘no second lockdown without parliamentary debate’. What’s wrong with ‘no second lockdown’?

147050 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to annie, 5, #157 of 2331 🔗

Quite right. There may be a small Conservative rebellion, but do we really see Labour and the nationalists leaping to the defence of traditional liberties? Particularly given the sizeable majority among the hypnotized population in favour of lockdown, they’ll be urging Johnson on to stricter measures. The climate has never been more favourable to totalitarianism.

147108 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #158 of 2331 🔗

The polls are lies. Why do we pretend to believe they give any indication of reality?

All they show is what pollsters (who underestimate people) believe the proles might believe, if told by authority figures using graphs and pulling a serious face, in a position in which those proles are too isolated to gauge wider opinion for themselves.

147318 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 3, #159 of 2331 🔗

The article in the Critic that Toby flagged suggested there’s a pretty substantial rebellion. The question is how far the rebels are prepared to go and whether Labour would pin their colours to the mast by helping the Government.

147007 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 11, #160 of 2331 🔗

Very interesting, the comparison of the COVID hysteria with the reaction to the AIDS virus.

I remember those chilling adverts well: the granite headstone with some ominous warning of “Don’t die of ignorance” and the final flourish of the white lillies dropping down on it. I viewed that with the same level of scepticism as I view the current confected terror. I read a very good book called ‘The Retreat of Reason …’ by Anthony Browne which, iirc, made reference to the AIDs ‘epidemic’.

147179 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to kh1485, 3, #161 of 2331 🔗

But at least with aids it is a serious illness. It’s not fatal now if you treat it but therapy is not a bundle of laughs.

147204 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bumble, 4, #162 of 2331 🔗

I’m not suggesting it is. My point was about the hysterical reaction to it at the time and the ludicrous public information films.

147345 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to kh1485, 5, #163 of 2331 🔗

I remember being sceptical at the time – I was a teenager. It seemed to me that, in order for it to spread as much as they were suggesting, everyone would have to be so promiscuous they’d all be connected to someone else by sexual relations. Always seemed very suspect.

147009 karenovirus, 13, #164 of 2331 🔗

We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we will rise as the last Frenchman rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia’s wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God’s scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England and we have not spoken yet.
Smile with us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.

“We are the people of England and we have not spoken yet…”

Th Secret People G.K. Chesterton

147010 Seansaighdeoir, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 32, #165 of 2331 🔗

‘..there is no conspiracy here, just colossal incompetence and negligence.’

Toby showing signs of wilful ignorance here.

The question is surely who is handing this ‘narrative’ to run with and what are their motivations? Is it surely no coincidence that the two central pillars behind that narrative have links to big pharma. Isn’t it the govts business to question that? Shouldnt they question this conflict of interest? Don’t they know? We all seem to. Taking a walk around a town I used to visit on business last night half the restaurants I used are all closed. It is a visible sign of the decline of our country. Are you suggesting they haven’t noticed any of this?

As an individual I simply don’t the full facts behind this but at the very least like of people here am questioning all these relationships as a driver for what is happening.

No govt could be this willingly incompetent or negligent in the face of such overwhelming contrary evidence unless this was a road they were set on traveling. How else could they willingly ignore the suffering of ordinary people the stories of which are readily available all over the internet.

This is a prime minister who broached putting troops on the street ffs. Sorry mate that stichk simply won’t wash.

147127 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 32, #166 of 2331 🔗

I think most people who believe the cock up theory do so because the alternative is nightmarish.
I was torn until the Leicester lockdown when the government manufactured a local spike and used that as an excuse to shut the city down again,a tactic which they have since used all over the country.
We have a government who has trashed the economy;destroyed family life and taken away ancient liberties all at the behest of unknown actors.
This is the hard part,who and what for.

147735 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #167 of 2331 🔗
147285 ▶▶ Fruitbat, replying to Seansaighdeoir, 8, #168 of 2331 🔗

I agree. For a long time I desperately wanted to believe that this was all a huge over reaction and a mistake but the longer it goes on the less likely this appears to be the case.

147351 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Fruitbat, 10, #169 of 2331 🔗

I find Toby’s wishful thinking depressing I must admit. After six months of lies and bullshit how can he still believe this is just an “idiots in charge” scenario? Normalcy Bias?

147458 ▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to NonCompliant, 6, #170 of 2331 🔗

And now Toby brings well known Mi5 disinformation agent David Rose into the fold, encouraging people to give testimony of care home crimes to him.
I would not trust that odious turd David Rose to make a cup of tea and suggest you do not communicate anything to this POS.
https://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2018/11/leon-brittan-and-david-rose.html

147911 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to peter, 2, #171 of 2331 🔗

And everything we say on here is watched

147012 annie, replying to annie, 36, #172 of 2331 🔗

Now into the second week of Nappy Wales, including the revolting sight of nappied teenagers walking home from school through a breezy seaside town. Not the majority, only a few – put back on the mental potty by bedwetter parents. Ugh.

On a brighter note, I’ve yet to be challenged for having a face. More typical is our Happy Shopper:

Visored assistant: (makes vague gesture ) Do you have a mask?
Me: I’m exempt.
Assistant (smiling): I have to ask, sorry.
Me: Yes, we both know it’s rubbish, you go through the motions, I go through the motions, so it’s ok.
Assistant grins. I grin.
Any shop that shows signs of mask zombyism gets my personal boycott. Few do.

147018 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 31, #173 of 2331 🔗

I went into a Costcutter yesterday, not a place I’ve been to in six months. Face mask signs outside with no mention of exemptions.
The girl exaggeratedly gestured at her mask and when I said “exempt thank you” she started telling me
“”You should wear a lanyard…you must be getting fed up with people saying that…”
An icy glance shut her up.
I stopped myself from saying
‘No, actually you are the only person who has ever said that to me’.

147020 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 28, #174 of 2331 🔗

I’ve purposefully not worn the lanyard as I don’t see why I should brand myself in that way. To date, not had any hassle.

I think, as you say, body language has an impact too. Shoulders back, ‘don’t mess with me’ look and you are left alone. Remains to be seen if I get any grief at work by remaining maskless.

147028 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to kh1485, 18, #175 of 2331 🔗

The difficulty is that the Government and Senior Management have put ordinary people in the position of checking this. On GWR trains it seems the ordinary train staff have been told to enforce face mask wearing and so if a passenger is not wearing a mask they are obliged to ask. Unless you are wearing a lanyard in which case they just smile and walk on by.
Similarly, on the station, if you walk past a Transport Police Officer without a mask they are obliged to ask, but if you have a lanyard then in my experience they say nothing.
So I wear a lanyard out of courtesy to them and to save me the hassle and inconvenience of explaining when I am travelling by train.

147030 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Steve Martindale, 26, #176 of 2331 🔗

Yes, the government have been very clever in this regard.

My stance really derives from the bullying, discourteous and frankly overbearing behaviour of some of the door marshals, particularly at Waitrose (my boycott remains). They are really enjoying the power they now have to push their customers around. Notwithstanding the fact that masks confer no protection and are extremely deliterious to health, my main objection is on the grounds of personal liberty. I take your point about being respectful but that cuts both ways imho.

147313 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Iansn, replying to kh1485, 27, #177 of 2331 🔗

The masks are just a visible marker to the government that people ‘support’ their actions, if everyone took of their masks or refused to wear them then the government would have to change its tack completely. Sheeple don’t understand that.

147393 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Iansn, 3, #178 of 2331 🔗

They don’t.

149062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Iansn, #179 of 2331 🔗

Almost everyone has forgotten the story and lesson of Schiller’s Wilhelm Tell:
MASKS are GESSLER HATS!
At best, in truth, they are also physically and psychically self-harming and dangerous.

147033 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #180 of 2331 🔗

Yes, that is a good point.

147087 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Steve Martindale, 15, #181 of 2331 🔗

Jews had to wear something like a lanyard in Germany in the 1930s, so that they could be properly identified.

147090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stewart, 8, #182 of 2331 🔗

And that’s another reason I object.

A friend of mine, whose family and friends are Jewish, sent me a video Al’ Johnson had made specifically aimed at the Jewish community. It was beyond crass and extremely patronising.

148778 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, #183 of 2331 🔗

Sounds like Johnson’s style!

147228 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to stewart, 18, #184 of 2331 🔗

I had a similar experience at a museum a few weeks back. Concierge, after the outside “safety briefing” asked me where my mask was. I replied, “exempt”. “In that case then you will have to have wear a sun-flower sticker”, says the concierge. To which I replied, “Just like a yellow star then?”

I think the retort went straight over her head, my wife despite being less sceptical than me and wears a mask in enclosed spaces just smirked.

147271 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 13, #185 of 2331 🔗

As a native German I have made the decision not to wear a symbol of exemption as I compare it with a yellow star, or in my case a pink triangle would be more appropriate, not that anyone would know what that is about!
Bodo Schiffmann, the famous German doctor working to educate people, has now started to call face coverings the new Hitler Gruss.
Maybe taking it a bit far.

147403 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to kh1485, 6, #186 of 2331 🔗
147532 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to James Bertram, 5, #187 of 2331 🔗

Brilliant!

People probably think I’m mad anyway because I wear a t-shirt at work with the name Randle McMurphy on it. Just my little personal protest at what is going on at the moment.

147056 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to karenovirus, 10, #188 of 2331 🔗

This is what gets on my tits, no mask = exempt/free thinking/can’t be arsed/all bollocks/piss off leave me alone

Don’t fucking ask me but I suppose that would spoil the narrative and they have to justify the torture. Clearly a conspiracy by businesses to continue the charade.

Oops, there’s that c word again.

147766 ▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to stefarm, 6, #189 of 2331 🔗

Can we please decide once at for all that this IS all about the “C” word!

Clearly, we are not being told the truth.
Clearly, there are agendas being carried out.
Clearly, these agendas are being discussed behind closed doors to which we plebs have no access.
What do you call a situation in which a group of people lay hidden plans behind closed doors?

The freakin’ “C” word!

This is now no longer “C” theory; it’s “C” FACT.

148767 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 1, #190 of 2331 🔗

I’d have said it! I’ve only been asked once. A very polite and tentative “I think you’ve forgotten your mask?”
An “I’m exempt” with a big smile. No problem.

147016 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 23, #191 of 2331 🔗

Christopher Snowdon
The true cost of coronavirus on our economy
Britain’s overreaction will leave scars that define the decade
From Speactaor magazine issue: 26 September 2020

When future historians look back on 21st-century mortality statistics, they will struggle to find anything out of the ordinary in Britain in 2020. When they look at the economic data they could be forgiven for thinking we were hit by an asteroid.

The Office for Budget Responsibility predicts a fall in GDP of around 12 per cent in 2020, the equivalent of having the 2008-09 recession twice in one year. The second quarter saw GDP fall by 20.4 per cent, breaking the record set during the Great Frost of 1709. The economy rallied by 6.6 per cent in July — which sounds impressive until you consider that it only took the economy back to where it was in the spring of 2013. The full impact on unemployment won’t be known before the furlough scheme ends, but the OBR expects it to treble to over four million, the highest number since the 1930s.

The furlough scheme cost £35 billion and is one of many reasons why the public finances are in such a wretched state. In July, total government debt passed the £2 trillion mark for the first time. The national debt has doubled since ‘austerity’ began in 2010 and now amounts to 104 per cent of GDP, a level not seen since the immediate aftermath of the second world war.

At the start of the year, the OBR expected public-sector net borrowing to be £55 billion. It is now forecast to be £322 billion. Public spending is predicted to rise by £182 billion while tax receipts fall by £130 billion. Nearly every form of tax is bringing in smaller revenues. It is no surprise that fuel, alcohol and air passenger duties have dwindled, but the government is also expected to get £21 billion less in corporation tax than originally forecast; £23 billion less in income tax; £7 billion less in stamp duty; and £11 billion less in business rates. These are only forecasts, but it’s worth noting that each of the OBR’s four predictions since March has been more pessimistic than the last.

A second lockdown would be catastrophic beyond words. Take the damage done by the first lockdown and approximately double it. In some ways, it could be less severe (it might be shorter), but in many respects, it would be worse because it will deliver the coup de grâce to businesses already on the brink. How many shops, pubs, restaurants and gyms will get through the winter without customers? How long can lower league football clubs play games in empty stadiums before they go bust? Whole industries would be hung out to dry.

At the start of lockdown, many commentators — myself included — were reasonably sanguine about the spike in government borrowing. The circumstances were exceptional and the borrowing was a one-off. The jobs and businesses being protected were viable in normal times and it made sense to mothball them rather than allow them to go to the wall. The rise in borrowing was temporary, not structural, and there was reason to think the economy would return to something like normality in 2021. People having money to spend but nowhere to spend it is a better problem to have than people having no money to spend.

A recession was inevitable but there were hopes it would be V-shaped as businesses reopened and shoppers made up for lost time. That optimism began to wither when a three-week lockdown to save the NHS became a six-week lockdown to flatten the curve and then a 12-week lockdown to… what? Eliminate the virus? Prevent death at any cost? Flatten the economy? If there has been a strategy since May, it has never been articulated. If I had to guess, I would say that the plan is to ensure that Boris Johnson is never again accused of acting too slowly.

147017 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 19, #192 of 2331 🔗

Only a sucker would fall for the idea that the next lockdown will be a mere ‘circuit breaker’ lasting a fortnight. Supporters of lockdown are adept at switching between cases and deaths depending on which is rising. Deaths lag behind cases by three weeks, so even if a two-week circuit breaker reduced transmission, the number of deaths would still be rising by the end of it. With the likes of Piers Morgan howling from the sidelines and the ‘Zero Covid’ fantasists re-energised, it is hard to imagine the government ending lockdown while the death rate is climbing. You can almost hear the slogan now: ‘One last push to save Christmas!’

And when case numbers rise again in the new year, as they will, who’ll resist a third lockdown, especially with the promise of mass vaccination just around the corner? All the while, the money-printer will be whirring. According to the Economist, the central banks of Britain, the eurozone, Japan and the USA have ‘created’ (i.e. printed) $3.7 trillion this year. If this does not lead to inflation, the economics textbooks will need rewriting. Higher inflation means higher interest rates and suddenly the cheap money being borrowed won’t be so cheap.

In the long run, Britain can withstand bungling politicians shaking the magic money tree. Historic levels of debt and unemployment won’t finish us, but the overreaction to Covid-19 will leave scars that define the decade. Future generations will be bewildered that a prosperous country threw its economy off a cliff in a failed attempt to suppress a disease that kills less than 1 per cent of those infected, most of them in their eighties and nineties. They will have every reason to wonder, since they will be the ones paying off the debt — or, more likely, paying the interest on the debt.

The mounting financial cost is easy enough to measure, but the true cost goes much further than that. How strange that people who believe the dubious factoid about 130,000 people dying of ‘austerity’ see no negative health consequences from this economic self-immolation. The scale of the disaster is so numbing that even the prospect of a no-deal Brexit barely registers as a problem any more. Unless the government develops a backbone, the 2020s will make the ‘lost decade’ of the 2010s look like a golden age.

WRITTEN BY
Christopher Snowdon

147024 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #193 of 2331 🔗

The theory does presuppose that deaths will follow “cases.” If, as seems apparent, most cases are an illusion caused by artefacts of a dodgy PCR test, the deception would have to extend to dressing up deaths by influenza or pneumonia as COVID deaths. However, if the dry tinder theory is correct, even this may not produce sufficient numbers to maintain the scare.

147031 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Andrew Fish, 3, #194 of 2331 🔗

The assessment of ‘cases’ should include a consideration of hospital data and not just dodgy pillar 2 test results.
Whilst everything seems to get branded covid these days, nonetheless hospital cases do mean someone has symptoms and been clinically examined.
Yesterday reported hopital cases in English NHS hospitals rose by 46 to a total of 1381, which for a population of 56 million is tiny it is also a small figure compared to the huge number of infections (dodgy-tests) they are reporting.
Also, little reported, but covid patients are getting better and being discharged from hospital, by my reckoning, on Sept 20th 134 Covid 19 patients were discharged from English hospitals.

147040 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #195 of 2331 🔗

Anecdotally I’m told by medics that procedures that did not work for treating Covid patients at Easter are now successfully doing so.

147069 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #196 of 2331 🔗

Totally agree, but the original post was about the data being fabricated to maintain the scare. My point was that this is made harder by the reduction of the susceptible population and your point about improved outcomes also adds to that. Essentially, to manufacture a second spike on the basis of deaths (we know how they can fabricate case numbers) would require either dressing up all manner of other deaths or actively killing people.

147589 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Andrew Fish, 4, #197 of 2331 🔗

I know of one care home that had Zero Covid but found that two deceased residents who died of cancer/old age had the Covid on their death certificates.
Remember it now requires only one doctor to sign such certificates.

147047 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #198 of 2331 🔗

But they’re going to start sending bedblockers back into care homes.

147067 ▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #199 of 2331 🔗

It’s going unreported, but Covid is still going through care homes. It’s just that people aren’t dying as a result. The dry tinder theory basically says that the susceptible (or the bulk of them, anyway) were hit in the spring outbreak, so even if you introduce more spreaders now it won’t cause another spike.

One question this leaves open is how long it takes to accumulate said dried tinder – obviously as people age they become more susceptible, but it doesn’t happen in an annual lump. Also, if the reduction of the NHS to be the NCS is resulting in many of these people dying (largely unreported) of other conditions – things that would have been counted as comorbidites in the spring outbreak – then the implication is it’s going to be much harder to manufacture a second wave on the basis of deaths.

147594 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #200 of 2331 🔗

They are not blocking beds, local hospitals are awash with empty ones.

147801 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to karenovirus, 1, #201 of 2331 🔗

Socially distanced empty beds

147550 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andrew Fish, 2, #202 of 2331 🔗

And also, I do believe the virus has mutated to a less virulent form. Japan, Australia and New Zealand appear to have been relatively successful at keeping CV19 at bay back in February/March. Now, they are detecting thousands of cases as the virus runs amok through all the available “dry tinder”. But where are the deaths?

Australia and New Zealand in particular have now reached early spring, when the disease ran unchecked in the northern hemisphere. I suspect this disease, never especially lethal, is even less so now.

Time will tell.

147037 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #203 of 2331 🔗

Someone mentioned to me IRL on Monday that the National Debt was now greater than after WW2, I was not aware of that as a fact but said it did not surprise me.
You date the article as 26th Sept, is that correct or a typo ?

147072 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to karenovirus, 1, #204 of 2331 🔗

The UK national debt currently stands at about 90% of GDP. After WW2 it was 250%. Of course, because of Brown’s smoke and mirrors, there’s a lot of off-balance sheet stuff not accounted for in that.

147112 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #205 of 2331 🔗

We were bankrupt after World War 2 and only an America loan saved us

147251 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Andrew Fish, #206 of 2331 🔗

I was referring to the 104% mentioned in Christopher Snowdens article.

147663 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to karenovirus, #207 of 2331 🔗

Still less than the 250% in 1945 – and we had a lot of work to do rebuilding our country at that point.

147796 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #208 of 2331 🔗

Very good indeed.

However they’ve been trying to drive inflation up for years. But it just always ends up in the Cayman Islands and in big yachts

147023 Tom Blackburn, 1, #209 of 2331 🔗

The sources that underpin THAT document;

8. IPSOS MORI. Personal communication 12-15 March. 2020.
9. Atchison C, Bowman L, Eaton J, Imai N, Redd R, Pristera P, et al. Report 10: Public Response to UK
Government Recommendations on COVID-19: Population Survey, 17-18 March 202
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-
COVID19-Population-Survey-20-03-2020.pdf. 2020.
10. Dowd J. Demographic science aids in understanding the spread and fatality rates of COVID-19
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.15.20036293v1 . Preprint. 2020.
11. Peters GJ, Ruiter RA, Kok G. Threatening communication: a critical re-analysis and a revised meta-
analytic test of fear appeal theory. Health psychology review. 2013;7(Suppl 1):S8-s31.

147421 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to PastImperfect, -5, #211 of 2331 🔗

A virus is bigger than vape smoke…..That’s why masks work. This is not relevant in any way, this is dangerous dis-information, you are killing people.

147640 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 7, #212 of 2331 🔗

Blimey, I was joking

147642 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Two-Six, 1, #213 of 2331 🔗

Balls, virus = 125 nanometres (0.000000125 mm), the dread droplets perhaps but they dry out.

147036 maggie may, replying to maggie may, 8, #214 of 2331 🔗

Facebook put a false information notice on something i posted recently, it was a picture that had been put on LS about spike in corona tests and spikes in IQ tests. what false information was in there, i completely fail to see. Same thing happened to a friend who posted information about TB stats to try and introduce a sense of perspective. I think I will give up on posting but it might be fun to post something with the mad professors numbers from Monday and see if they come up as false information.

147057 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to maggie may, 7, #215 of 2331 🔗

They did it to me back in June just for reposting about when the WHO said asymptomatic cases were very rare! They linked to what can only be described as a ‘re-education’ site that was full of contradictions that I subsequently dismantled and posted on FB!

147063 ▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to Moomin, 2, #216 of 2331 🔗

Oh well done! I just thought sod it I’m afraid and gave up!

147109 ▶▶▶ Tangelo, replying to Moomin, 3, #217 of 2331 🔗

I reported a random WHO post that appeared in my feed as “misleading or false information”.

147082 ▶▶ Biker, replying to maggie may, 9, #218 of 2331 🔗

The dude who owns Facebook has a Chinese handler pretending to be his wife. Facebook is Chinese surveillance and propaganda and if you use it you must be mad or willing to let these evil fucks know everything about you.

147547 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Biker, 4, #219 of 2331 🔗

When Arsebook came out I felt that I was doing my friends a favour by not signing up to it. Why would I want to let the government know who all my friends were? It felt like I would be “grassing” on them. I have never signed up for it. I never will.

147039 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #220 of 2331 🔗

Please have a read of this absolutely spot on summary from the man who knows Vallance better than most. To me, if anything, it gives me hope, and hopefully not misguided hope this will be over soon.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1308889807725236224.html

147053 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to mrjoeaverage, 7, #221 of 2331 🔗

I wish I could share your optimism. I feel really down about it all again today. I just can’t see an end to this any time soon, the fact that so many of my friends and family are caught up in it makes me despair.

147086 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Moomin, 9, #222 of 2331 🔗

Don’t feel too down. In two weeks there will not be 50,000 cases a day. They will try and say its because of the measures they took, but that is our opportunity to ask where the WMDs are. “You said there would be 50,000 cases you were 48,000 out” has to be our mantra.

We can fix this.

147098 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Moomin, 6, #223 of 2331 🔗

The WEF say there is a small window of oppoutunity caused by covid to install the roots of their great reset.

What has caused that window to open and why is it said to only be a short window of opportunity?

They are full out, full gas trying everything they have. The window will close when realisation inevitably comes in the population that there is a swindle afoot. They know that moment will come, but can they get the roots established enough to trap us in a 4th industrial revolution of the kind they desire? That’s the race against time.

4th industrial revolution is written about by Sky news Ed Conway in the sunday times and in many, many other places. It is a mainstream concept. See WEF for the central explanation then alternative sites to understand how terrible the WEFs revolution will be for 99.9% of the world’s population.

147561 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Moomin, 3, #224 of 2331 🔗

Hold fast Kevin. I’ve had to turn aside fallings-out with my family by making bets with them. Though they didn’t appreciate the comment that if they were right, they wouldn’t be around to collect their winnings.

We will win.

148645 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Moomin, #225 of 2331 🔗

At least, not a good end?

This Saturday 12 noon, Trafalgar Square. 50,000? 100,000?

Berlin hopes to get 10,000,000.

147094 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #226 of 2331 🔗

Interesting read, who is Yardley Yeadon ?

147102 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to karenovirus, 1, #227 of 2331 🔗

He is Mike Yeadon. Author of the FPR article Tony featured and co author of another LS piece. Ex CEO of Pfizer.

147173 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sarigan, 2, #228 of 2331 🔗

He’s not ex ceo of pfizer. He was v senior in their uk research ops though, and more importantly has known Vallance since they did experiments together at Wellcome many years ago. So he knows his stuff and he knows vallance.

147265 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sarigan, 1, #229 of 2331 🔗

Thanks, sorry for the wrong naming, was posting on the go.

147044 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 10, #230 of 2331 🔗

Now let me get this right:First of all, students are blamed for a “supposedly” rise in CV infection rates when they went back to university and now they will be blamed again for coming back from university for Christmas for the same reason.
WHAT NEXT?

147058 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #231 of 2331 🔗

Presumably they will be confined to their 7×7 cells for the whole 3 years with army ration packs pushed through slots in the door once a day. More controlled student accomodation will need to be built to facilitate this which will be great for the economy.

147088 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Charlie Blue, #232 of 2331 🔗

I refer you to the reply I gave to Tom Blackburn.

147154 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Charlie Blue, 2, #233 of 2331 🔗

There you go then, Charlie; a government minister (who cares which one) says that if they have to stop students from going home for Christmas, if that’s what it takes, blah,blah,blah, they will do it.

147064 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #234 of 2331 🔗

I think the answer is for them not to be selfish and to start being retired. That way your lifestyle isn’t affected that much by lockdowns

147085 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tom Blackburn, #235 of 2331 🔗

Don’t give this excuse for a government ideas.

147104 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #236 of 2331 🔗

Joking aside, I think that’s how a lot of people see it. Just stay at home doing crosswords and visiting the supermarket at peak times (despite not working) – it’s easy peasy

147144 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #237 of 2331 🔗

That’s my brother and sister in law:PATHETIC.

147116 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #238 of 2331 🔗

I feel for students. One day they will see that mass hysteria robbed them of what should have been such a fun and exciting time.

147157 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Jenny, 3, #239 of 2331 🔗

And a job at the end of it..

147046 Roadrash, replying to Roadrash, 5, #240 of 2331 🔗

If Tegnell is turning we are well and truly f*cked.

147048 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Roadrash, #241 of 2331 🔗

Oh God, why didn’t I wait until later to read LS. That’s my day buggered then.

147051 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Roadrash, #242 of 2331 🔗

Agreed! I’m praying he won’t cave in.

147095 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Roadrash, 1, #243 of 2331 🔗

Don’t panic the Global health security team either lie or wildly exaggerate they never tell the truth

147208 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Roadrash, 33, #244 of 2331 🔗

*Sigh*…. I wish Toby would contact me before quoting what the MSM in the UK are saying about Sweden and scaring you all with misinformation…

I posted several times late yesterday about what is really happening over here. And Simon Dolan is coming to Sweden today and will hopefully secure some good interviews.

It must be remembered that both Tegnell and Giesecke have to cope with doom mongers in the Swedish media and ‘placate’ them in order to keep them off their backs. If you watch interviews with both men they are very careful and diplomatic in what they say, especially when talking to the foreign press as they are in some ways representing Sweden on the world stage (note that no one from outside Sweden has been asking for interviews with Stefan Löfvén). Particularly Tegnell who gets interviewed more often.

Also, Tegnell truly *does* follow the science and is open to change things *if* he sees a need to do so. When he says measures *can* involve certain moves, he means just that – *can*, which is not the same thing as *will*… I can understand that with the way things have been in the UK of late, that you have been conditioned to expect any ‘might’ or ‘can’ as meaning ‘it is our next move’…

Because rates of CV are at present low in Sweden, they are making more use of contact tracing and Tegnell seems keen to build on the success of the current strategy, by preventing any ‘spikes’ from spreading. If you read the weekly (very detailed) report that the Public Health Agency produces, you will see that the current cases are being found in upper secondary schools (ie sixth forms), universities and some workplaces where people have returned from holidays. Tegnell seems to want to ‘break these chains’ of infection and when he says’ close schools’, he does not mean close *all* schools, just maybe temporarily close ones where outbreaks have occurred. Remember that these schools have been doing online teaching all Spring, and indeed where I live, some 6th forms are already doing a ‘one week school -one week digital learning’ pattern at the moment. In the press today they report that despite digital learning all Spring, the number of kids who have qualified for university entry this year has actually *increased*!

Masks have *only* been mentioned once, as part of a list of things that *can* (note the choice of words) be part of the autumn strategy here…

Hope that helps!

147320 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Carrie, 1, #245 of 2331 🔗

Thanks for pointing me to this – good to get a boots on the ground point of view, you can understand our worry seeing that in the news after the week we’ve had here

147365 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Carrie, #246 of 2331 🔗

Hope springs eternal. Thanks for the update 🙂

147379 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Carrie, 1, #247 of 2331 🔗

Thanks for that. I know what you mean about how careful Tegnell is in interviews – I saw him interviewed by Andrew Neil and he was very careful not to be drawn on what he thinks about our government’s response or to make predictions about what will happen in Sweden.

147409 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Carrie, 4, #248 of 2331 🔗

I thought that was probably the case Carrie. Thank you for the confirmation. Hopefully Toby will publish this post tomorrow above the line to calm some frayed nerves.

147590 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will, 1, #249 of 2331 🔗

Seconded.

147626 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Carrie, #250 of 2331 🔗

Limited quarantine not universal incarceration, sanity.

147978 ▶▶▶▶ Dale, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #251 of 2331 🔗

But when has that ever been done ? Why this time ?

147972 ▶▶▶ Dale, replying to Carrie, #252 of 2331 🔗

I sometimes wonder if skeptics have oversold the ‘Swedish resistance’ ? Seems to me that Tegnell panicked, just like the rest of the world, albeit maybe to a lesser degree. He closed nursing homes (to tragic effect). He closed colleges and universities (why ?). He limited mass-gatherings (does he do that every flu season ?). He instituted social-distancing measures (sanitizer outside, stand here circles, can’t approach bar). In his recent interview, with Unherd, he recommended Stockholmers go to the country and allowed as how the government was paying Swedes to stay home. Swedes did stay home for a time. And their economy was battered as a result. All the way, a goodly proportion of Swedes, were crying for locKnown, and approval of the lockdown right matched the ruling left. *sighs* I suppose Tegnell was powerless against the constant drumbeat of new/never seen anything like this/doesn’t discriminate/Chinese in the streets, etc.

147054 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #253 of 2331 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54270334 the app has arrived, fortunately my iPhone is too old.
The concept of self determination of risk is already enshrined in law through the mental capacity act of 2005.
unless this has been repealed by a statutory instrument

147071 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to p02099003, 2, #254 of 2331 🔗

The article doesn’t mention that 1/3 of the time the instruction to place oneself under house arrest will come without having been within 2 metres of a plague carrier for 15 minutes. Surely even the clinically terrified could see how pointless and damaging this is….but they won’t

147275 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Charlie Blue, #255 of 2331 🔗

hancock admitted as much on the Today Programme this morning.

147092 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to p02099003, 4, #256 of 2331 🔗

So the population of hypochondriacs is going to allow an app to provide clinical diagnosis and order them to to self isolate for 8 days? Either the amount of other viruses etc circulating plus the easiest way to get of off work in the world, I sense a storm coming.

147105 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 8, #257 of 2331 🔗

It’s all a bit of fun isn’t it, more virtue signalling.

‘verity, look, not only do I take selfies wearing my mask I also now have the app to protect me so I can protect you’

‘wonderful Karen. You are a true hero’

147592 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to p02099003, #258 of 2331 🔗

Not sure an SI can replace an Act.

147055 dpj, replying to dpj, 1, #259 of 2331 🔗

Earlier start than usual for her today with her pro-independence statements keen to show other 3 nations how she has a much better idea what to do than they have.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54274055

147061 ▶▶ Biker, replying to dpj, 25, #260 of 2331 🔗

I can’t watch her. She makes me sick. She’s insane, the people who support her are inane tossers bereft of the ability to think straight. This latest ban on visiting other houses again is pure evil. She is fucking evil and i can’t stand her or her supporters.

147065 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 2, #261 of 2331 🔗

Ditto

147077 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 12, #262 of 2331 🔗

Had a lovely chat with a cult member on the back of the no visiting homes. Its a 2 years olds birthday coming up, large family gathering plsnned.

Me: Nah it’s not allowed. Them: will the police come? Me: No you’ll just get grassed up – that’s how they want it.

Head turned to look at me at mention of grass, Eyes wide open. Cult member knows I’m not a grass nor would I. But the penny dropped just a little. Quite a moment for me to see a cult nember have a small realisation the cult is bad.

147100 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 7, #263 of 2331 🔗

Tell them since they support her you will definitely report them for their party because they want her and her fascism so they should suffer it. Funny how all of them publicly say one thing and privately think it don’t apply to them. Now is a golden chance for them to realise that their stupid anti english bullshit ain’t worth the price of a retard like Sturgeon having control over you.

147156 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 3, #264 of 2331 🔗

Thats a cult known characteristic. In public holy. In private every scam we can manage we do.

147714 ▶▶▶▶▶ mattghg, replying to Biker, #265 of 2331 🔗

Don’t do that. Don’t allow yourself to become like them.

147126 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Biker, 5, #266 of 2331 🔗

Perfect analysis. The woman is pure poison and relishes the power to issue these diktats. I always thought the Scottish people like Australians were brave and tough, maybe an illusion through past sporting deeds.

147073 ▶▶ Biker, replying to dpj, 15, #267 of 2331 🔗

I just read what she had to say and oh boy is she a happy little ignorant camper. We should just dish out my tax money so she can live out her “worm that turned” fantasy. It’s like she has no clue where the money comes from. Well it’s not like, she doesn’t. She has no clue how money is made. She doesn’t understand that money is stored energy and something has to be made for it to have any value. It really bothers me that such limited intellects think they can be in charge. They don’t have the intelligence to realise how stupid they are which just proves the failings of any kind of government. She and her supporters are a direct threat to me, every single person who thinks all this nonsense we’ve to do in regards of this virus is a threat to me. This is a living nightmare not unlike the walking dead only you’re not allowed to beat to death any of the zombies.

147078 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Biker, 5, #268 of 2331 🔗

I can’t find the link now but yesterday when questioned that she was trying to move in the right direction she was saying that she was forced into using the word ‘suppress’ as all 4 nations had agreed to use that but she still wanted to go for covid-zero and completely eliminate it. We have no chance of these over the top restrictions ever ending until she accepts that is almost certainly impossible.

147081 ▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Biker, 5, #269 of 2331 🔗

Off topic, but that is not how money is made. Sturgeon is closer to the truth in thinking that money is invented out of thin air. But money relies on people like you and me treating money as if it has to be made with productive work for its power. As soon as the illusion is burst money will stop being a store of value and the societal breakdown will make Covid look like the bedwetting episode it really is.

147093 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Recusant, 3, #270 of 2331 🔗

You don’t have a clue how money is made, like most people. I’d bet you haven’t and never will read Austrian Economics. Your left wing idea of money is laughably stupid. Lord save me from lefty economics.

147155 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Biker, 2, #271 of 2331 🔗

Yep. The concept of purchasing power or store of wealth appears to be lacking with many people.

A better term is Zimbabwe

147303 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Recusant, 5, #272 of 2331 🔗

Money is fairly irrelevant. It’s just a tool to help organise and facilitate activity – actually a pretty good tool, which has stood the test of time and it would be hard to replace.

But prosperity and comfort and progress basically come from WORK

147288 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Biker, 2, #273 of 2331 🔗

“More borrowing powers” is the new mantra.

Deciding what is devolved is reserved to Westminster. I think she will find she has a Westminster MP representing her. She can take it up with that person. She’s not special.

Becoming FM should go with it signing a solemn declaration that you are perfectly happy with the constitutional arrangements. Any call for more less or different powers should simply be against the law.

147450 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to dpj, 1, #274 of 2331 🔗

This is good. Janey Godley ripping up Sticky Nurgeon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_3V9Tzz4Co
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqvI0wzNczc

She has done loads of this kind of thing..

147062 Biker, replying to Biker, 13, #275 of 2331 🔗

Who remembers the joke, what does aids stand for?
Arse Injected Death Sentence
I wonder if that joke is allowed theses days? Probably get you banned from Twitter and a visit from some mong who works for the state and has a badge and thinks he’s something other than a lackey of the state unable to care for themselves.

147615 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Biker, #276 of 2331 🔗

Private Eye back when it was funny. Anal Insertion Death Syndrome from memory but close enough.

148366 ▶▶▶ DaveB, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #277 of 2331 🔗

I remember it as ass injected.

147070 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #278 of 2331 🔗

Peston
@itvpeston
·
9h
“I’m absolutely, 100% certain it will pass”

@SteveBakerHW
tells
@peston
that he’s confident that
@SirGrahamBrady
‘s Amendment, where Parliament must directly approve any new COVID restrictions before they come into force, will pass with the support of
@thesnp
&
@uklabour
#peston
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1308882379558313984?s=20

1min video clip of Steve Baker MP explsining he is organising opposition to tge governments extension but it relies on Labour and SNP who need to stand up for civil liberties, something they have not been doing.

147171 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Basics, 2, #279 of 2331 🔗

Great. So they will all vote for further restrictions, and the public will believe even more that it is right.

147182 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to jb12, 1, #280 of 2331 🔗

See the Big Brother watch video for reasons as to why the coronavirus act *must* be repealed..

147624 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Carrie, #281 of 2331 🔗

Right. But my point is that what indication is there that anyone in parliament will do anything but vote for varying levels of restrictions, especially at the numbers needed?

147074 6097 Smith W, replying to 6097 Smith W, 18, #282 of 2331 🔗

I’ve been thinking what should the government be doing if it actually wanted to control the virus and reduce unnecessary deaths and illness?
First thing is to go back to the first rule of medicine, first do no harm. Whatever they do should cause less harm than the virus a simple idea but i think it’s important.
So could be done
1. Vitamin supplements especially vitamin D it’s cheap and safe and easy and will help improve people’s immune system over winter. The elderly and certain ethnic minority groups are often vitamin D deficient in winter. It would not be 100% effective but it would definitely help, cost very little and do no possible harm.
2. Hydrochloroquine and zinc. The Marseille protocol HCQ has been used for years and proved to be safe and there is some evidence that it helps if given early. There have been designed to fail trials that show it does help later on but it does work a bit if given as soon as possible. Again not 100% but cheap and harmless.
3. Fever hospitals. Separate hospitals or at least separate buildings (could use the nightingale hospitals but they are not ideal and probably too large) and staff for covid patients so normal health care can continue and the risk of nosocomial (in hospital) transmission will be greatly reduced. Not cheap but nowhere near the amount that they are spending on testing and would definitely help and would do little harm.
4. Treatment for covid patients. At present the guidance is wait at home until you literally can’t breathe then seek help but it is often too late. Early treatment with additional oxygen would save many lives and we have the capacity and what harm could it do?
Unfortunately none of the above can result in £200 fines, it not exciting and does show how tough Boris is, so he won’t be interested but it might help and it wouldn’t do any harm.
Thoughts?

147076 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to 6097 Smith W, #283 of 2331 🔗

TLDR I know

147159 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to 6097 Smith W, 3, #284 of 2331 🔗

It’s good!

I am not a fan of public health campaigns but paying a top notch advertising agency to get across the message that even a basic multivitamin that boosts vitamin D and C levels will improve your immune system would, for once, be money well spent. It is not a panacea, but will make a positive difference.

147443 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Strange Days, 3, #285 of 2331 🔗

And that is why it will never be done. They could have promoted Vit C, Vit D, Zinc at any time in the last 6 months. They could have made HCQ or Ivermectin widely available.
Anything that keeps people out of hospital will not be done.

147119 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to 6097 Smith W, 8, #286 of 2331 🔗

I agree with everything you have listed here.

And, didn’t we used to have convalescence homes? Wouldn’t it be an idea to reintroduce them?

147645 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 2, #287 of 2331 🔗

Convalescence homes and infectious disease hospitals both need to make a comeback.

147124 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to 6097 Smith W, 3, #288 of 2331 🔗

3) is the equivalent of the old TB sanatoria.
4) under no circumstances intubate and ventilate, CPAP/BIPAP is the way to go

147263 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to p02099003, #289 of 2331 🔗

Thanks – I always appreciate your posts so please keep ’em coming.

147176 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to 6097 Smith W, 4, #290 of 2331 🔗

You are presuming that the government actually has your best interests at heart..

Remember they are in consultation with Gates, who wants to depopulate the world and is on record (multiple times) saying so…

147885 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Carrie, #291 of 2331 🔗

No, I am asking IF they had our best interests at heart what would they be doing?

147292 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to 6097 Smith W, 2, #292 of 2331 🔗

isolation fever hospitals were obvious from the start, they need to be ground floor only so no stairs or lifts. Local Nightingale has two stories.

147080 James007, replying to James007, 11, #293 of 2331 🔗

Has there been any explanation as to how they think closing pubs and cafes a bit earlier reduces transmission?

Also you can be except from the “rule of 6” if it is for the purpose of attending an “organised support group”. So perhaps we need some sort of organisation that runs group therapy session for affected by lockdown, running sessions involving music and booze.

147115 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to James007, 2, #294 of 2331 🔗

It’s clearly a nonsense

147314 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #295 of 2331 🔗

Yes.
It is so bizarre, announcing a policy which will disrupt cafe’s and restaurants (having spent August trying to bribe us to go to them), AND NOT TO TRY TO EXPLAIN how it will make any difference!

I assume there is some modelling prediction of some kind, but that it is too weak and tentative to be used as an actual argument.

The only other thing I can think of, is that the policy makes no direct difference other than provoking fear and caution. But if that is the case…. why were they trying to get “Britain moving” and back to work? Surely the way to do that is to reassure.
It is a riddle.

147716 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to James007, 1, #296 of 2331 🔗

It’s the ant-drinker crowd jumping on the Covid bandwagon. 10pm pub closures will become permanent just as 10.30 was permanent for decades after it was introduced during WW1 to aid the war effort.

147134 ▶▶ annie, replying to James007, 8, #297 of 2331 🔗

Covvie is waiting outside the pub with a stopwatch. At 10 pm, he walks in and infects everybody.

147169 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to annie, 6, #298 of 2331 🔗

What will happen when the clocks go back? Will the little devils reset themselves or will the curfew have to be adjusted?

147478 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Strange Days, 6, #299 of 2331 🔗

Covids work on Eastern Standard Time, so 6 hours behind GMT, Covids don’t get out of bed untill about lunchtime, have a long lunch then go to work at about 4 o’clock, thats 10:00 pm GMT for us. That’s why.

147520 ▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Two-Six, 1, #300 of 2331 🔗

Got it 🙂

147298 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to James007, 1, #301 of 2331 🔗

The rule of 6 also does not apply to occupants of 14 person student houses.

147331 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to karenovirus, 2, #302 of 2331 🔗

I used to work for a university and have access to my emails. I understand that some students have been “caught” socializing with people they aren’t living with. As a response the university has said it will dismiss anyone found breaking the rules.

If you are out with 6 friends you live with, and happen to meet some other friends in the street – are you breaking the rules by talking to them?

147631 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to James007, #303 of 2331 🔗

Occupants of large student houses can legally be out and about together but must separate to make contact with someone else.
This applies to student HMOs, not halls of residence.

147333 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to James007, 5, #304 of 2331 🔗

Re the ten o’clock closing time, Boris told the House (on Tuesday) that “we have evidence that’s when there’s transmission”. Obviously he didn’t bother to say what the evidence was or where we could examine it.

By the way, no one laughed.

147338 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #305 of 2331 🔗

I wonder if is to do with people milling around during closing time? Last orders and so forth…

If that is the case, won’t all that activity still happen, just an hour earlier?

147706 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to James007, 1, #306 of 2331 🔗

Exactly what I would have done if I still used pubs.

147344 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Steve Hayes, #307 of 2331 🔗

It’s quite obvious that when lots of people in one place have been drinking alcohol excessively any attempts at social distancing will fail. Are the government honestly naive enough to think this doesn’t happen until after 10pm? I’ve tried to go out for a meal many times as early as 5pm only to have evening ruined by a group at a nearby table who’ve clearly all been out since lunchtime.

147392 ▶▶ Will, replying to James007, #308 of 2331 🔗

Voodoo.

147089 Nic, replying to Nic, 9, #309 of 2331 🔗

Do not download the app unless you want to have multiple periods of having to self isolate, for the foreseeable future,any one who does ,unless they work in the public sector , must be insane.

147097 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Nic, 2, #310 of 2331 🔗

I don’t know anyone who has downloaded the scottish one. With so many false positives, people with dead virus from months ago testing positive and possibility colds are also being picked up I can’t understand why anyone would want to take the risk.

147101 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Nic, 3, #311 of 2331 🔗

if you are forced to download the app on a work phone turn the Bluetooth off

147178 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #312 of 2331 🔗

On an iPhone there is an Exposure Notifications item in settings, that also has an off switch. However I would also turn off Bluetooth to be ‘safe’

147117 ▶▶ Smelly Melly, replying to Nic, 4, #313 of 2331 🔗

Google have already downloaded the T&T app onto most smart phones. Go to settings, under setting is Google settings, tap on that you will see “Covid 19 exposure notifications” ensure it’s switched to off. There is no way of removing it.

147139 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #315 of 2331 🔗

I can’t say 100% that it’s harmless but that is just part of operating system to enable an app to work once it’s installed so shouldn’t do anything unless you are also foolish enough to install app.

147141 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Smelly Melly, 2, #316 of 2331 🔗

On my phone it is dormant unless you download the App. So you have to intall the App for it to be activated.

147361 ▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to Smelly Melly, #317 of 2331 🔗

Yikes. Sneaky devils.

147861 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Smelly Melly, #318 of 2331 🔗

Just checked it on mine – it’s off. I seem to remember from previous discussions that this feature is not an actual app but just something that’s put there to enable the app to work if it’s downloaded – correct me if l’m wrong.
I’ve just noticed that dpj has already said this.

147096 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #319 of 2331 🔗

After Raab’s comment in his interview with Kay Burley that “that due to the high level of false positives that only 7% are detected”. Does this mean that of the 6,000 positives yesterday that only 420 were actually positive?

147113 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JohnB, 1, #320 of 2331 🔗

She was on Twitter asking for questions to put to Hancock last night

147149 ▶▶ Kev, replying to JohnB, 1, #321 of 2331 🔗

No, not 420, thats now how it works, its 7% of the total number of tests, not of recorded positive tests.

They claim around 200,000 tests per day (BBC no longer report this – wonder why?) in which case 14,000 would be false positives. So the threshold for positive results (not cases) has not been reached, not even half way!

It’s only a case if it is symptomatic, leading to hospitalisation, which is I believe about 0.1% of all actual positive results.

The PCR test is inherently unsuitable for testing viruses.

147190 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Kev, 2, #322 of 2331 🔗

It can detect the presence of viral particles (qualitative) It cannot measure how much (Quantitative). It should only be used to confirm diagnosis based on signs and symptoms. It should not be used for screening.

147306 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Kev, #323 of 2331 🔗

Because the labs have run out of chemicals.
hancock Today Programme this morning.

147352 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kev, #324 of 2331 🔗

How can you have more false positives than total positives though? A test needs to be positive before it can be considered to be a false positive.

147765 ▶▶▶▶ martsharm, replying to JohnB, #325 of 2331 🔗

No, skipper, that is the mistake that the politicians are making because they aren’t very well educated. False positives are negative cases that are tested positive due to a flaw in the testing process. Anyone who knows about screening knows that even a 95% specificity is pretty good for a screening test. There is no such thing as a perfect test. If the PCR tests are 99% specific that is pretty good, but with such a low prevalence of the disease and high numbers of tests, the false positives (ie people without COVID which the test wrongly says have actually got it) are going to wildly outnumber the true positives.

That is why a screening test should not be used as a diagnosis for a case.

None of the above the Government is willing to discuss, for some reason. Either they are clueless, or it is more convenient for them not to talk about it. Although Hancock clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about – he thinks that a false positive rate of 1% means only 1% of positives are false – when it’s probably around 90%.

149209 ▶▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to JohnB, #326 of 2331 🔗

Julia Hartley Brewer gave a good explanation of it on twitter.

147099 Nic, replying to Nic, 34, #327 of 2331 🔗

I have finally realised the point of masks they are simply to make it so unpleasant to go anywhere and do anything in public, people will not bother which is exactly what the bastards want.

147106 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Nic, 10, #328 of 2331 🔗

Given the numbers I now see travelling on busses I think you could be right. Or there are fewer people on busses because they are fearful of using public transport. A bit of both perhaps?

147118 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ned of the Hills, 22, #329 of 2331 🔗

I think it’s a bit of both. A lot of people find wearing a mask and/or seeing people wearing masks deeply unpleasant and so avoid it (I’m in this group). Many others are so terrified that they won’t go places regardless of how ‘reassuring’ masks are. There’s a group in the middle who either tolerate it or actively enjoy the virtue signalling.

I’m trying to decide if I can be bothered with the palaver or claiming exemption at the pub, or if I’ll just stay home and drink myself insensible on my own beer.

147364 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to matt, #330 of 2331 🔗

I’ve just posted above some bus observations. .

149216 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to matt, 1, #331 of 2331 🔗

Exactly. I put some fuel in my car today at our big Sains (on way home from work) and paying without mask is easy. I just couldn’t face going into the store even tho’ I have the lanyard. The feeling of being in the line of fire was too much effort. I’ll go to local village shop for essentials and just won’t get the other stuff on my list (at least not till I really have to). Definitely changed my behaviour.

147220 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #332 of 2331 🔗

I don’t use the bus any more because there is nowhere to go, I used to use the bus to visit an old lady in a care home (now been told I cannot visit until 2021 if she lives that long) and to go swimming (pool shut and cannot afford to re-open). Happy days!

147111 ▶▶ Tommo, replying to Nic, 17, #333 of 2331 🔗

Until yesterday, my local Spar was quite relaxed – usually more without masks and staff not masked. But now all staff are masked and atmosphere more tense. For the first time this morning I was challenged as to why I was not wearing a mask but the lady on the till. It does make shopping unpleasant when everyone considers you a bio hazard.

147121 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Tommo, 4, #334 of 2331 🔗

Just say you have a medical exemption end of arguement,

147123 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Tommo, 19, #335 of 2331 🔗

Its criminal making people work in a shop for a 8 hour shift with a ask on very u healthy

147145 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Nic, 1, #336 of 2331 🔗

Extremely, and especially if they are doing hard physical work

147180 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Nic, 4, #337 of 2331 🔗

The surgical type mask should be replaced after 4 hours or sooner if it becomes damp or soiled.

147181 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tommo, 12, #338 of 2331 🔗

That is one result of making masks compulsory for shop staff.It plays on human nature.Why are you not wearing one when I have to.
The government are evil not incompetent

148446 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Tommo, 1, #339 of 2331 🔗

My management wants me to challenge people if they enter without a mask, but I won’t. A few people forget, but people who are genuinely exempt, like me, I would not like to be challenged. OK, I like it if someone wears a sunflower or badge, but I do not challenge others either.

147114 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 15, #340 of 2331 🔗

A checkout assistant I spoke to admitted as much when I commented how quiet it was. She mentioned that before the mandatory muzzling came in, they were busy and customers were telling her that was their last day going into a supermarket. Since then its been click and collect or delivery.

147107 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #341 of 2331 🔗
147128 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #342 of 2331 🔗

So are masks very unhealthy

147150 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Nic, 2, #343 of 2331 🔗

They certainly look a lot more stupid – vizors just look ridiculous.

147168 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #344 of 2331 🔗

Hate visors, but at least you can see people’s facial expressions and the deaf can lipread…

147491 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #345 of 2331 🔗

People wearing visors are totally insane.

147110 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 1, #346 of 2331 🔗

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3702/rr-2
Good article in BMJ about “population immunity “, trying to find a palatable description of it

147337 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Marie R, 2, #347 of 2331 🔗

Good find. An open letter rather than an article per se, but the BMJ saw fit to publish. (The BMJ still occasionally publish items countering the narrative..)

I was drawn to this paragraph:-

“Vaccines will not be proven to be safer for children and young people than the infection for some years, if ever. Two adenovirus-based vaccines have already been shown to have important side-effects that mimic COVID-19 infection — i.e. fever, pain, fatigue and headache. (7, 8) the side-effects have been glossed over. The side effects are occurring in 70-80% of fit people in the young adult and middle age groups. We really must know whether it is effective in people over 70 years. A vaccine is not going to be a panacea. There will be resistance and it will be contested, including in the courts, as by sheer coincidence people will die or become seriously ill shortly after receiving the vaccine and will blame it.”

147607 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Marie R, #348 of 2331 🔗

‘Community immunity’ seems a bit more zeitgeisty.

147673 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #349 of 2331 🔗

“Saturation” is another I’ve heard, but makes me think of “saturation bombing”.

147120 Bart Simpson, 6, #350 of 2331 🔗

Thanks for a great update and many of the articles linked are especially worth reading.

I was around the vicinity of UCL, Soas and Birkbeck yesterday and thought that during this time last year how the campus was buzzing with people but yesterday it was depressing and very much like the aftermath of an apocalypse. Sure there were some new students being shown around but other than that I won’t be surprised that given that lectures will be mostly online many students have simply elected to defer or stay at home to do their degrees.

147129 steve_w, 1, #351 of 2331 🔗

Nick Triggle’s BBC article worth a re-read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54228649

147130 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 8, #352 of 2331 🔗

We need to support people like Steve Baker MP. I’ve just sent this to him:

‘Dear Mr Baker,

I am a constituent of Robbie Moore MP in Keighley, West Yorkshire so I appreciate that you won’t be able to reply.

However, I just wanted to say how encouraged and thankful I am that you are pushing for parliamentary approval of the coronavirus measures that have effectively destroyed our way of life in this country.

Please do all that you can to rein in the Prime Minister and his cabinet.

Threats of using the army, increasing fines, admonishing/blaming people for not obeying rules when those rules and advice shift from day-to-day, suggesting that coughing could be the death knell for someone, etc., etc., are all characteristics of authoritarian rule.

If something is not done now it will be too late.

Kind regards,’

147165 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, 2, #353 of 2331 🔗

I’m not sure I want to encourage Steve to vote for prolonging the coronavirus act at all, even with the proviso that Parliament gets to vote on new restrictions.

See Big Brother Watch’s excellent video to see why..

147334 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Carrie, 2, #354 of 2331 🔗

I understand what you mean, I don’t want it to be extended either, but I do at least want to see some sort of debate and this could be a step in the right direction to getting it repealed.

147133 karenovirus, 2, #355 of 2331 🔗

BBC R4 Today
Nick Robinson to hancock “The Prime Minister minister is consulting with Swedens Chief Epidemiologist, (sniffily) he doesn’t usually talk to Sceptics”.

Hancock ” you had whitty and Carl Heneghan on your Programme yesterday, both of whom I rate . . .”

147136 guy153, replying to guy153, 5, #356 of 2331 🔗

So what happened in Japan? Were they saved by their uniquely honorific Asian culture of wearing masks and never hugging each other much at the best of times?

Apparently they still managed to wind up with lots of antibodies:

https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796

Out of 1877 employees of some megacorp in Tokyo, average age about 40, 46.8% were seropositive in a series of tests that were done over time and did track the epidemic very closely. The IFR came out to 0.0006%.

The first thing I would say is don’t directly compare percentages of people with antibodies between different studies. The tests vary greatly in their thresholds, the antibodies they’re looking for, and the timing of when the tests were done. You can’t draw too many conclusions from 46% in Tokyo, 20% in Stockholm. etc. They will mostly underestimate prevalence but by different amounts.

But at the end of the day it looks like Japan has ended up with herd immunity just like almost everywhere has (and everywhere will) driven by the second law of thermodynamics which supersedes all other guidelines, regulations and laws in the universe.

But their deaths are about 50x lower than the UK’s. This is really a mystery. Perhaps particularly high cross-immunity? But they still had antibodies so it can’t have been that good. Lots of vitamin D from all that raw fish? The first place to look is always how a country is actually reporting and recording deaths. Does anyone know how Japan are doing this? A Google search just throws up huge amounts of the usual MSM drivel.

147142 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to guy153, 1, #357 of 2331 🔗

Per Ivor Cummins, I understand that there was a major flu outbreak in the previous year, which may have contributed to the herd immunity. Also studies have shown higher than average respiratory infections in recent years, possibly because of face coverings…

147691 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Yawnyaman, #358 of 2331 🔗

Japanese do seem to be especially susceptible to influenza, which I blame on all that mask wearing.

147151 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to guy153, 2, #359 of 2331 🔗

My current hypothesis is social eating (sharing food). I’m not in a position to test the hypothesis but would be something worth studying if I was able.

147162 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to guy153, 2, #360 of 2331 🔗

If I am reading the study correctly, the high readings of antibodies disappear very quickly which would certainly mean that any random antibody testing for an immunity passport would be useless and would mean that Vallance’s very low estimates of infection are wrong. Backed up by what Prof Sikora said when they tested all their staff.

147174 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Bumble, 2, #361 of 2331 🔗

Antibodies generally start to fall off about 12 weeks after infection, there’s no need for them to be present after they’ve done their job, after all they are the last line of defence. Vaccines that maintain antibody presence need adjuvants to be effective long term, which is why aluminium salts are added. Even then boosters are needed after 5 years for typhoid, after 10 years for hepatitis B.

147202 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bumble, 1, #362 of 2331 🔗

Yes that’s certainly a reason why the UK antibody studies are a huge underestimate of true exposure– we didn’t start doing them until several months after the epidemic.

Different antibodies last different lengths of time. The IgG ones last longer, but it also depends which IgG antibodies. You usually end up with high levels of less-specific antibodies earlier in the infection (like the anti-N antibodies in Covid-19) and lower-levels of more optimized ones a bit later, which last longer. So the drop in levels over time is also dependent on what exactly the test kit is looking for, as well as the threshold it’s set to of course.

Most have considerable “spectrum bias” because they are calibrated against samples from hospitalized patients with lots of antibodies meaning they can crank up the threshold. But this means lots of people who just had a cold will test negative (in spite of being immune and fine).

147198 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to guy153, 1, #363 of 2331 🔗

Japan, should in theory have been the worst hit, if age of population was the only factor. If the way deaths, hospital admissions etc are recorded, can be shown to be different, then that could be another marker, that what’s happening here is all arse about face.

I seem to remember watching a documentary on some of the very old, but very healthy Japanese. It’s concluded that the vary varied diet, was a big factor.

147660 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 4, #364 of 2331 🔗

They must do something right in Japan and I am surprised that no one has been interested to do a deep investigation what they are doing.
But one of the strangest thing is that they are doing very FEW tests 14740 per 1M that is world ranking 154 after Benin and Ghana. They seem to use tests only around known cases. These testing measurements clearly show that they are not mass testing, mass-screening population, workforce etc and definitely no Pillar 2 testing.
UK’s testing 23 times more than Japan per capita. It can’t be excluded that they have much more spread in the younger population (which the serological study seemed to reflect) but they are uninterested to find that .Perhaps they are only interested in hospitalization and deaths.

Very difficult to find out how care homes are run in Japan but according to some reports very committed staff which voluntarily seemed to stop travelling etc during the pandemic. That might be just be propaganda.Japan might have reached the conclusion that this is only a threat to the elderly and designed the response to that and will not bother with the younger.

I think it is almost bizarre that the lockdown fanatics, moon shot, mass testing zealots are always praising South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand and Taiwan. And expect SK ,slightly more testing than Japan (116 in world ranking for tests) Vietnam, Thailand 161 and 163 and the golden star for handling of C-19, Taiwan, number 181 in world ranking after Mozambique.

 They all must have more cases but not showing up in hospitals or deaths in significant number as C-19 are mostly affecting younger people. Alternatively, they are all hidden in the flu, pneumonia statistics but if no excess deaths in total, of no interest for them.

147686 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to guy153, #365 of 2331 🔗

I think the virus has mutated to a less virulent form. Australia and New Zealand have relatively few deaths per detected positives.

149119 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #366 of 2331 🔗

I think that’s just more testing. People have sequenced it a lot of times and haven’t discovered any mutations that make it much less virulent (except the 382 nucleotide deletion but that happened back in January and did not become all that widespread). D614G made it more infectious, same fatality, and did become dominant.

147138 mjr, replying to mjr, 16, #367 of 2331 🔗

just seen the most blatant propaganda on BBC breakfast (from 8.20)

it is featuring 6 people who have had life changing events since the outbreak (apparently it is 6 month anniversary)

Person 1 … One of the first old BAME bus drivers that died in London … eulogies from his family

Person 2 lady with 3 year old with Downs syndrome who due to the lockdown enjoyed lots of quality time at home (and enjoyed clapping every thursday) with the cute 3 year old

Person 3 – Older BAME man who was ill in hospital for 6 weeks but now recovered (all thanks to the wonderful NHS) .

Dont know when the other 3 will be on.

Will they include the person whose cancer was not spotted earlier in the year and will now die early.
Or the young person who has lost their job due to lockdown and committed suicide through depression,
Or the small business now gone bust because of lockdown.
Or the family whose grandmother died in March in a care home due to the NHS sending the home infected patients
Or the old person in a care home with dementia who doesnt understand why she has not seen her family for 6 months
Or the ……… well you all have your own examples

I’m not holding my breath

147166 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to mjr, 2, #368 of 2331 🔗

Sky news last night similar.big piece about long Covid victim.They are leading us to a second lockdown using their old Spi B trick.

147177 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 7, #369 of 2331 🔗

Thank God I don’t have a telly in order to watch that abomination but yeah they won’t bother to include anyone who has died from the effects of lockdown.

For the BBC much like the NHS – its all about Covid nothing else.

147140 Ned of the Hills, 7, #370 of 2331 🔗

A bit of good news.

I keep a weekly check,Thursdays to Wednesdays,of Covid deaths the Republic of Ireland. Last week’s (6) was lower than the previous week’s (10). Since the end of July the weekly numbers have been:-

11, 1, 5, 3, 3, 1, 4, 10, 6.

In that same period the number of cases has risen ever upwards and upwards week on week from 127 a week at the end of July to 1919 in the the week just gone (roughly doubling every two weeks)

Despite the every increasing number of cases last Tuesday the pubs were allowed to open! (Tá iontas an domhain orm!). Perhaps the government has been more influenced by the mortality figures than the number of cases.

.

147143 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #371 of 2331 🔗

Numbers of ‘cases’at Scottish universities has cause the unthinkers much concern. Glasgow 130 cases, Aberdeen 80 cases, 100s of students in self isolation. Aberdeen University has stated students will not be punished for breaking ‘bubble’ rules if they come forward to be tested.

The whole experience of students is horrific, normalising the cattle mentality in these young people. Really opressive and stifling of life. An increase in suicide rates may not even touch the flaws of university safe guarding their students.

Students ask for risk assessments carried out by your universities before tge implentation of the covid19 campus regimes.

147161 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Basics, 3, #372 of 2331 🔗

These are likely cases of EBV, it has always circulated round universities at the start of the academic year.

147237 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to p02099003, 2, #373 of 2331 🔗

Fresher Flu as someone else said on here.

147226 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Basics, 4, #374 of 2331 🔗

I have seen the risk assessments at the UoE, and they are full of drivel about how there has to be enough toilets for gender neutral people to use and the concern that gay people will suffer staying at home because not everyone there might know they are gay.

147146 chris, replying to chris, 19, #375 of 2331 🔗

From Kit Knightly, Off Guardian.
The UK’s NHS England has been reporting “daily deaths” since back in March, and the media have been eagerly repeating them, drumming up fear just as the SAGE memos told them too.Granted, the UK media don’t talk much about deaths anymore, since they have slowed to a trickle, instead they focus on the thousands of symptomless “cases” being generated by the massively unreliable tests . But, when they do talk about deaths, it’s always “daily deaths”.
These numbers have always been meaningless, as anyone who bothers to read the daily statistical reports can tell you. We reported on that months ago . To absolutely no one’s surprise, they are still doing it.
But, if they are going to be repetitive, we have to do likewise. Exposing this numbers shell-game is the best way to wake people up to just how they’re being manipulated.
September 23rd’s report is a perfect example. (available here ). This was reported as 30 people dying in 24 hours, but if you read the actual report it says the deaths are spread out over several days, and no more than SIX deaths were reported in any 24 hour period. One of the these 30 “daily deaths” happened on August the 13th .
The “daily deaths” count includes people who died over a month ago .
But it gets better. Right there on the front page, it says they include deaths where…

A positive test result for COVID-19 was not received but COVID-19 is mentioned on their death certificate

Yes, the “daily covid deaths” include people who were never tested . There’s seven of them. Roughly one quarter of the total.
To sum up the situation:
NHS England’s “daily Covid deaths” didn’t all happen in one day, and probably didn’t all have Covid.
This is not at all new information to anybody who has been paying attention, but it bears repeating. They are clearly going out of their way to manipulate the numbers.
People need to be shown this so they will naturally ask the follow-up question: Why would they want to do that?

147153 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to chris, 2, #376 of 2331 🔗

A few of them stand to make quite a lot of money from a vaccine, if not all the other scams around government contracts.

147210 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to chris, 1, #377 of 2331 🔗

I can reveal today that there have been 41862 covid deaths…

147503 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #378 of 2331 🔗

In one day????
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!

147254 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to chris, 1, #379 of 2331 🔗

Thank you for that. The tldr: figures being made up/massaged to suit the government’s whims.

147147 Marie R, replying to Marie R, 8, #380 of 2331 🔗
147158 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Marie R, 1, #381 of 2331 🔗

Great – listen to who he quoted (it included Gupta!)..

147175 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Marie R, 1, #382 of 2331 🔗

Encouraging!

147193 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Marie R, 3, #383 of 2331 🔗

Excellent, kept his cool, was accurate and factual, professional and didn’t rise to the bait, pretty much the opposite of what we had the other day.

147197 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Marie R, 5, #384 of 2331 🔗

Yes indeed. He is an absolute one man US bastion. He is now an official Presidential public health appointee on the their TaskForce, but still many of the public statements he has made, have been censored from YT. You can hear the hostility from the reporters, because he is going against the narrative. If Trump had any sense he would stop promising early rollout of vaccines. At least half the US population don’t want it.

147209 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Marie R, 2, #385 of 2331 🔗

And it’s why Whitty/Vallance are not letting the truth get in the way of a good scare.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1308889807725236224.html

147211 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Marie R, 1, #386 of 2331 🔗

Very interesting. It looks like it’s polarizing for the election, with Biden warning of 200 billion deaths every day or something.

Timing is everything. They need to pick the side that’s going to be on top by the time of the election. Biden’s side might win if the election was now, but I think it will have turned by November.

While Trump is thoroughly objectionable in every conceivable way perhaps it’s better if he does win again because of this issue.

147245 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to guy153, 4, #387 of 2331 🔗

I don’t disagree with your Trump remarks at all. But I now believe it is critical rather than just better that he wins.

147148 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 23, #388 of 2331 🔗

“Downloading coronavirus app is ‘good for your community’, says Matt Hancock

“Getting on this train to Poland is ‘good for your community’, says Herr Hancock

147196 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 15, #389 of 2331 🔗

Perhaps its just me being a curmudgeonly old codger? but to my mind anyone who voluntarily gets involved with apps, testing or tracing is bonkers. These things all just feed the pantomime and are best avoided if at all possible.

147203 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #390 of 2331 🔗

Agreed!

147207 ▶▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #391 of 2331 🔗

Yes, you’re a curmdgeonly old codger – that’s why you’re here with the rest of us!

147163 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #392 of 2331 🔗

-5 in Altnaharra last night. Sunak will extend furlough today or have fuel poverty on a scale that in and of itself will break the mass hypnotism of belief in covid cases needing to break our nation’s economy.

147188 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Basics, 2, #393 of 2331 🔗

Sounds like a good place for Krankie!

Meanwhile, let’s hope Rishi finally wakes up from the socialist prison and stops putting more fuel on the fire that is burning our economy. Fuel poverty (and all the other forms of poverty in the rapidly extending queue) may be the only route to national sanity. Otherwise pre-WW2 Germany beckons.

147222 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to IanE, 1, #394 of 2331 🔗

They are trailing no furlough extension on bbc. It will be stopped.

147525 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Basics, 1, #395 of 2331 🔗

We are moving towards a Universal Basic Income scheme linked to a social credits score. They have the technology from China so it can easily be rolled out. Refusing the vaccine means a low social credits score – just another way to control the masses.

147199 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Basics, 5, #396 of 2331 🔗

I seem to remember you live in Scotland, Basics. So you’ll know the First Minister is actually saying she would like to shut the pubs altogether, rather than at ten o’clock, but can’t because Westminster holds the purse strings. So if the Scottish government was in charge of its own finances they first thing it would do is close the pubs. Can hardly wait for independence.

147232 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jane in France, 4, #397 of 2331 🔗

Fettered freedom is being worked on by humza yousaf snp justice guy in the snps hate crimes bill. He chose Fettered as his description to describe free speech having limits it will be fettered and aposed to unfettered. Search what fetters are. Clue manacles. Yes, Scotland is suffocating by woke nationalism of the globalist variety.

147164 Kevin 2, 4, #398 of 2331 🔗

https://www.hl.co.uk/news/2020/9/23/truck-queues-could-be-7000-long-when-brexit-transition-ends-ministers-warn

When you strongly suspect that the 29 lorry parks are part of a deliberate policy to fracture supply lines, the incompetence / stupidity theory goes out the window.
Back in April, when S Korea and the like were all wearing masks, we were repeatedly told the public should not wear masks. And incoming flights were allowed to continue. This was when deaths were increasing fast for a few weeks. So we ended up with the virus well and truly seeded.
As the risk from the virus has diminished, the draconian restrictions have increased.
For me, everything that has happened since March/April, has simply added confirmation to a ‘playbook’ rather than a stupidity hypothesis.

147167 Sir Patrick Vaccine, 2, #399 of 2331 🔗

Did Dominic Raab Just Admit 93% of Tests are Inaccurate?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4G7W_cf0JA

147170 NickR, replying to NickR, 10, #400 of 2331 🔗

New day, new chart…….
I’ve added Chris Whitty’s worst case 200 daily deaths & added them to the average actual winter deaths for each of the last 9 years (seems unlikely we’ll get an average flu year given, masks, social distancing, house arrest, the people who normally die of flu being registered as dying from Covid etc etc).
…… and what do we see? Well, it would be a bit worse than 2014, but not as bad as 2018.
This is utter madness.

147186 ▶▶ matt, replying to NickR, 3, #401 of 2331 🔗

Don’t forget that nearly all of the people who are at serious risk from Covid are also at serious risk from influenza/pneumonia. It seems unlikely that they could die twice.

147194 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to matt, 2, #402 of 2331 🔗

Where there’s a will there’s a way…

147348 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to NickR, 2, #403 of 2331 🔗

Not as bad as 2017/2018 – the winter of catastrophe that was never noticed!

Thanks for putting this graph together.

147184 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 1, #404 of 2331 🔗
147187 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Basileus, 1, #405 of 2331 🔗

Oh sorry, already posted. Must watch the twitch in the trigger finger.

147189 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 3, #406 of 2331 🔗

UK Expert Corruption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_RDpT06lao

I made a video earlier today exposing the nonsensical fear mongering of the UK government chief COVID advisor. It turns out he has huge amounts of money invested in vaccine companies.

147576 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #407 of 2331 🔗

Probably shares he got whilst working there.

147191 Hubes, 30, #408 of 2331 🔗

This has gone too far. I demand a full lockdown now. All politicians and media need to be locked away for 6 months.

Whilst they are locked away, open the country back up, so that’s no masks, no distancing, no testing, nhs fully open, full crowds at sports event etc etc.

If after 6 months everything is fine and excess mortality is in the normal range then we can keep things as they are. If not then they can lock all the sceptics away and do what they want with the country.

147195 guy153, replying to guy153, 5, #409 of 2331 🔗

A couple of comments on Neville Hodgkinson’s article. I think it’s very unlikely that HIV does not cause AIDS, although we probably did panic and overreact. Also SARS-CoV-2 is not part of any symbiotic “virome”. Some viruses probably are but these are endogenous retroviruses (which incorporate themselves into your own DNA). SARS-CoV-2 doesn’t do that, and it gets kicked out of your body in a few weeks. Of course having had it most likely does have a beneficial effect on your immune system.

147493 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to guy153, 1, #411 of 2331 🔗

Mullis said that Montagnier was unable to point him to a paper proving the link. That surprised me greatly but your ‘very unlikely’ suggests it is the case that definitve proof is still lacking.

147200 IanE, 17, #412 of 2331 🔗

That’s it.

I can no longer do more than glance at most of the stuff above (good and important though it is!): the pain of what is being done, so obviously wrongly, to this country has just become too unbearable.

147201 Tyneside Tigress, 10, #413 of 2331 🔗

Reading this great find from the Sunday Times archive puts Professor Sir Roy Anderson right at the centre of every failed and costly response to a major disease outbreak since the 1980s. As a recap for those who might have forgotten, Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx, who led the US response to covid, were also involved in the US response to AIDS. Anderson also links to some very important people here to. He supervised Sunetra Gupta’s PhD, before the defamation incident that forced him to leave Oxford and return to ICL. At ICL he was joined by his Post Doc, Neil Ferguson. He is also associated with Dame Angela Mclean, CSA at the MoD, who appeared in early press conferences ( https://science.sciencemag.org/content/254/5034/963.abstract )
Finally, he happens to be a Non-Exec at GSK and on the board of both the WHO and Gates Foundation initiatives.

147206 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 9, #414 of 2331 🔗

I have to admit I was beginning to submit to the conspiracy thing, then there was Toby’s incompetence thing but now with the admission that it is a suppress until a vaccine strategy I think it’s just about massive egos and some sort of messiah complex. Boris sees himself as churchill defeating the enemy and hancock is saving the world just like Gordon Brown did back in 2009. A new paradigm in treating disease. It will fail of course when the vaccine is canned and when everyone else has woken up, thank you belgium and sweden of course. It’s time that all prospective politicians were subjected to psychiatric testing so that these loonies can be weeded out before they get near the reins of power.

147215 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Bumble, 5, #415 of 2331 🔗

Depends upon your definition of ‘conspiracy’. If it includes people working together to better their own financial position and further their sense of power – then that is what we see.
In order to understand what’s going on we need a bit of everything: a grand plan plus principles-free & lazy government plus random ignorance/incompetence.
‘Incompetent’ people cannot climb to the top of the political heap.
‘Incompetent’ people cannot effect the full-scale removal of ordinary freedom and mass-destruction of employment.

147475 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Rosie, 2, #416 of 2331 🔗

The last two UK Column’s give much interesting content that is very conspiracy orientated.

147214 George Marchaux, 6, #417 of 2331 🔗

***ATTENTION ALL***



Please sign the following petition if it is all you do today;
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/313310

The Emergency powers bestowed on the Government in a time of genuine uncertainty back in March must be repealed on Wednesday. We cannot have or accept a Government ruling by decree under the guise of public health for any longer.
If you havent already, email / write to your MPs, express deep concern for liberty and democracy. Gently suggest your support for the Government is wavering and your vote at risk.

Remember the Government will only act as they do for as long as they perceive to have the support of the population.

I think Voltaire’s famous quote summarises the situation Boris and his cabinet are in today:

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

147216 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #418 of 2331 🔗

From January this year:

What Will The Future Of Work Look Like? A View From 2030

https://business-reporter.co.uk/2020/01/20/what-will-the-future-of-work-look-like-a-view-from-2030/

And from WEF in 2016:

8 predictions for the world in 2030

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/8-predictions-for-the-world-in-2030/

147287 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 5, #419 of 2331 🔗

According to these articles the world of work has naturally transformed it’s self into this new normal utopia of working in a coffee shop or in a field on your solar powered mobile phone under multiple global flexible “contracts”. Or “gigs” as the young people say. Thier word for jobs I think.

As you eat houmous and lettuce grown on the side of a building or under solar powered LED’s in an old tube train tunnel and enjoy the spectacle of you happy family cycling by on a cycle track that goes into a smart city, now with residential units instead of shops and offices, it will have a range of sustainable food outlets and a few permitted retail opportunities, that have been carefully vetted for their impact on the environment.

The virus doesn’t feature, nope its a natural progression into the new normal.

The WEF document is a few of the 17 sustainable development goals of the UN agenda 2030 dumbed down and re-framed for the sheeple and the kiddies to be able to understand. It all looks super, what a lovely organisation the WEF is, all they want is what is best for us.

147419 ▶▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Two-Six, 3, #420 of 2331 🔗

You can sign up and see what the plan is.
Every aspect covered, vaccinations, id s, green bollox, banking, agriculture, you name it, it s all there. One world government.
Yes, people think that I`m crazy , not that I care…lol

https://intelligence.weforum.org/topics/a1G0X000006O6EHUA0?tab=publications&searchTerm=

148010 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 2, #421 of 2331 🔗

Young people do not say “gig economy”, they say ‘I have to do three jobs just to pay the fucking rent’.
Middle aged journalists say “gig economy “.

147217 D B, replying to D B, 4, #422 of 2331 🔗

The news from Sweden disturbs me most, if they fall, then the whole resistance loses our flagship!

147221 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to D B, 2, #423 of 2331 🔗

Please see my reply/rebuttal to Toby’s story further down this thread..

147230 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 2, #424 of 2331 🔗

Please also see here: https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1308473220408975360
particularly the graphs showing the 3 ‘models’ that the Public Health Agency here did for the Swedish government, with projections from feb 2020- sept 2021 of possible trends. The ones shown here are for the Stockholm region, but they apparently did them for every region. Will be interesting to see which one proves correct over time!

147507 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to D B, 3, #425 of 2331 🔗

Still have Belarus where the West are actively encouraging mass protests and civil disobedience – there was no lockdown or mass deaths. Belarus funnily enough isn’t a stronghold for the globalist big pharma or media companies.

147218 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 50, #426 of 2331 🔗

Went to Asda this morning. They had security at the door to insist on face masks. He told me that I had to wear one. I told him I am exempt. He demanded proof. I explained that the law did not require me to prove it. He asserted that I had to provide proof. I pointed out that the law only allowed a police officer or health officer to question an exemption and that by challenging me he and Asda could be fined under the Equalities legislation. At this point he decided to telephone someone. He briefly stated the position and then listened for a moment. When he ended the call, he muttered the word “apologised” and barked “stay two metres distance”.

Obviously I did not enjoy this experience. But I do feel sorry for him. Clearly he had not been properly briefed and did not know that if someone claims to be exempt, he should accept their assertion. But (from the brevity of the telephone call) it is clear that his manager knew.

Whilst my conversation with this security person had been in progress, a number of other Asda staff had been paying attention. As I walked away I overheard a member of staff say, “What’s the point of the rule, if all you have to do is say exempt? Clearly many of the staff were resentful at being forced to wear masks and apparently do not realise that they can claim exemption.

147223 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Steve Hayes, 24, #427 of 2331 🔗

The immature ‘it’s not fair’ response – as opposed to a mature questioning of what is bad for them and therefore for everyone – I find extremely depressing.

147240 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Rosie, 25, #428 of 2331 🔗

It is a childish response, but the government’s behavioural experts are knowingly exploiting it in order to enforce compliance, which is criminal in my opinion.

147247 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Steve Hayes, 15, #429 of 2331 🔗

Agree completely with you. It’s all part of the infantilisation of society.

149002 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #430 of 2331 🔗

It’s to cause division, like all their evil rules.

147322 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Rosie, 11, #431 of 2331 🔗

Sadly, from experience, not just the current situation, this is due to significant functional illiteracy in the population that leads to poor critical thinking skills and low intellectual reasoning that perpetuates the “it’s not fair” response that rapidly degenerates into playground level ad hominem insults.

147282 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Steve Hayes, 32, #432 of 2331 🔗

Oh dear. Off to Asda and Aldi this morning, I’ll report back. I’ve just printed out as a distributable slip the extract from the guidance that includes:

Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards.

Also got my spiel ready, “Section 13 Equalities Act 2010” etc. Other comments may include “I’m profit, you are overhead” and, possibly, “Fuck off”.

147310 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Steve Hayes, 13, #433 of 2331 🔗

I went to Tescos this morning. No problem on the door – there was no one on it and I just walked straight in. Did have an issue with the cashier saying that I was “almost on top of” the guy in front of me in the queue for the till. I pointed out that, yes my trolley was over the line, but I was making sure I was stood behind it. I couldn’t move back further as I would have then been blocking people coming past. No sure if she was behaving that way of her own volition or if they have been instructed to make life difficult for the non-muzzled.

147502 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Chicot, 5, #434 of 2331 🔗

Need to get onto the self scan, no interaction with them, no issues.

147312 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Steve Hayes, 14, #435 of 2331 🔗

A police officer cannot question the exemption:

https://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/COVID-19/understanding-the-law/Documents/COVID-19-face-coverings-relevant-places-280820.pdf

“Not every disability is visible. Where a member of the public needs more support or cannot wear a face covering, officers should engage with them but they should be sensitive to an individual’s confidentiality and circumstances.”

147442 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #436 of 2331 🔗

Last time I looked at the *actual legislation*, it detailed the exemptions available, said that a constable/pcso could direct you to wear a face covering or leave the store if you were refusing to wear a muzzle, but made no mention at all of a constable or anyone challenging an exemption or requiring proof of it.

It’s my reading that the police would have to reasonably believe you were lying about exemption and therefore were technically refusing, before they could take action.

NB, the law changes every five minutes, as we know.

147483 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #437 of 2331 🔗

It’s impossible to prove you are lying about an exemption as you do not need a doctor’s certificate and one of the exemptions is that putting on a mask would cause you “severe distress”. If pressed just say that wearing a mask causes you distress and there is no way they can prove otherwise.

148259 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Chicot, 1, #438 of 2331 🔗

Threaten a demonstration of said diustress is my plan.

148033 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #439 of 2331 🔗

You do not have to disclose or prove your Disability unless it ever gets to Court.

147317 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Hayes, 13, #440 of 2331 🔗

I’m looking forward to my confrontation, my heart will be beating and my bum clenched but I will not be bullied and quite frankly I don’t care if he or she are doing their job, ignorance is not a defence!

Managers know and higher management know, they are in on it. The house of cards falls if employees realise they can claim exemption.

Good work SH!

147350 ▶▶ R G, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #441 of 2331 🔗

My local ASDA was tolerable if you went in either first thing in the morning or right before they shut. I’d say roughly half the staff have been masked and it’s the only place I’ve seen unmasked customers since the mask edict. My hope is that the goons won’t be on duty early in the morning. If there’s a Smartprice Stasi from 6 am then I think it’s time to look into home delivery.

147791 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to R G, 9, #442 of 2331 🔗

Yes I hit Tesco at 6am when it opens to get ‘under the radar’ from the undead zombies. I swear I do a 20 item shop in 10 mins flat and I am out of there like a stabbed rat.

147355 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #443 of 2331 🔗

This doesn’t surprise me. Time and again I have encountered companies who have not trained their staff properly with regards to exemption and even the bare bones of the Equalities Act and GDPR.

147380 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #444 of 2331 🔗

I found it staggering that big companies fail to train the door guards (on minimum wage) that will chase away paying customers for good. No customers, no business.

147477 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 5, #445 of 2331 🔗

Many of these companies seem to have a death wish hence the slavish adherence to the “safety” measures and the lack of training on their staff.

We should grant them their heart’s desire and boycott them. By voting with our feet and wallets, the lack of paying customers will hasten their demise.

147907 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #446 of 2331 🔗

I was in Lidl this morning. Following recent reports about increasing harassment of the unmasked, I took copies of the “Law or Fiction” pages as back-up for my exemption card. However no such problems arose. No staff on the door, more customers than I’ve seen in there since March, but I only saw one other unmasked.
Panic buying? The pasta was a bit depleted but toilet rolls were piled high and wide. Maybe a lot of people still have lots of the latter from their previous panic.

147914 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #447 of 2331 🔗

It’s very poor management to put staff on the door without briefing them properly on the legal position.

148020 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #448 of 2331 🔗

I just got back from Tesco metro, all the staff pantied up except the unfamiliar Security Guard, he didn’t give me a second glance.

147219 Kate, replying to Kate, 11, #449 of 2331 🔗

Can we follow the money?

From what I heard on the radio this morning (and I can’t stand it for long) businesses are now asking the banks for loans so they can keep their staff on.

This looks like a mafia shakedown to me.
First stop viable businesses from trading for seven months, then when they are desperate, make them indebted to you to continue to operate.

This is a bogus pandemic. The real motives are financial. There was a financial collapse last September. We heard nothing about that. But wall to wall covid?

Distraction techniques.

147227 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Kate, 10, #450 of 2331 🔗

I have long believed that this was a smokescreen for global financial collapse and manoeuvring of wealth. It has also been utilised to facilitate the implementation of the green agenda amongst other things. Never waste a good crisis.

Just my opinion of course.

147233 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 1, #451 of 2331 🔗

Are you still following MM on Patreon, Offlands, and if so, what is he saying 😉 ?

147606 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Carrie, #452 of 2331 🔗

I am and it is pretty depressing tbh. Mostly about brexit and with Covid saying that a minority are ruining for the rest of us by not complying with regs. The discord chat is more interesting with some really interesting posts from other members.

Definitely getting info before made public but 90% of it about Brexit. Drop me an email my username at proton mail dot com.

147246 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Sarigan, 2, #453 of 2331 🔗

I am really getting frustrated that people on this site continue to focus so much on the virus.
Surely we have all understood PCR and false positives and the massaging of the figures by now?

It is more important to understand the real motives and how to protect ourselves financially and warn others – I felt sorry for Julian Metcalfe and the boss of Timpson on the radio this morning. They have staff to look after.

Don’t they realise they are being played?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8763005/So-WFH-directive-Boris-Tens-thousands-staff-defy-home-work-call-head-in.html

147252 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 4, #454 of 2331 🔗

yes, it’s obvious the covid scam is a cover, for a lot of things. Many groups have hitched their wagons onto The Corona Project train. A total SCAMDEMIC.

147241 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Kate, 1, #455 of 2331 🔗

I have often wondered whether last September’s repo market moves (which prompted the volte face at the Fed on rates) were more of a warning, and not the full-scale financial crisis that was set to come at some stage anyway. In much the same way as the collapse of the two Bear Stearns hedge funds in 2007 was a forewarning of what was to come in 2008/9?

147269 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #456 of 2331 🔗

So do you think the pandemic was planned or just a reasonable excuse to effect the reset ?

147278 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bumble, 3, #457 of 2331 🔗

I think there was going to be a financial crisis anyway – the central banks were running out of road with QE4 (we are now in QE Infinity). The virus seems to conform to ‘never let a good crisis go to waste’.

147307 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #458 of 2331 🔗

the full-scale financial crisis that was set to come at some stage anyway

Yes, this gets too easily forgotten. There will be something to blame it on now, the perfect alibi for two decades’ of central bank and government collusion and can-kicking.

And Carney’s gone off to save the planet.

As I say so often at the moment, God help us all.

147717 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to TJN, #459 of 2331 🔗

The globalists have had since 2008 to prepare for the latest collapse.

147849 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Kate, #460 of 2331 🔗

Yes, and they’ve been incubating it since the 1990s.

147273 ▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Kate, 6, #461 of 2331 🔗

There has to be something behind this. As I posted earlier, we knew in January (BBC, New York Times all reporting) that the virus in Wuhan was mostly only killing the elderly with other health conditions. A city of 11 million people goes into lockdown after only 17 deaths, in the winter, of mostly older people with other health conditions. Global hysteria ensues. What’s wrong with this picture? It was wrong then, it’s still wrong and it’s getting more wrong by the minute.

147224 Norma McNormalface, replying to Norma McNormalface, 25, #462 of 2331 🔗

Here’s something that needs to be said: More people are speaking out about the damage of lockdowns now we are in “round two”. As they didn’t speak up the first time, a lot of them are saying “We didn’t know much about the virus back then” and kind of pretending they were OK with the first lockdown, but in fact probably weren’t but now need to cover their ass. In fact we knew quite a lot about the virus in the emerging weeks. I’ve been looking back at the articles from January and Feb.

Here’s one from the BBC date Jan 23rd which says Most of the 17 victims there were elderly and suffered from other chronic diseases including Parkinson’s disease and diabetes.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455

Here’s one again Jan 23rd from the New York Times about the first person to die outside of Wuhan: “The victim was an 80-year-old man… Like many of the other confirmed victims of the virus, he appeared to have other underlying health issues: After being admitted to a hospital, he also was treated for high blood pressure, chronic bronchitis and emphysema, the authorities said”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html?smid=em-share

And let’s not forget that Wuhan went into lockdown when there were only 17 deaths in a city of 11 million (almost all older people with co-morbidities) and 400 or so cases in the whole of China, a country with a population of 1.393 billion people and a country well versed in living with and dealing with various flus and other viruses. https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-virus-cases-pass-400-11579670877

Why are people now pretending that at the beginning they thought this was some kind of new mystery omni-killer? And why were China pretending that back in January? If China hadn’t locked down, NOBODY would have locked down and none us would be in this mess.

It’s become very fashionable to say “we didn’t know”. We did know. We just didn’t say anything.

147249 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Norma McNormalface, 12, #463 of 2331 🔗

Good point and I can guarantee that when this shit show is over many of the bedwetters would claim that they were sceptics all along.

They will try to delete any posts that they made supporting the lockdown and social distancing as well as name calling sceptics and those who don’t wear muzzles.

They will also delete any photos and selfies of themselves wearing muzzles.

We should never let them forget that they aided and abetted all this.

147697 ▶▶▶ claire, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #464 of 2331 🔗

I have a friend who is now exasperated that people don’t understand (despite me telling her since March and her only realising in the last few weeks). Safer to say nothing and be glad the tide is turning (albeit later than ideal).

147857 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to claire, 3, #465 of 2331 🔗

Unfortunately a lot of my colleagues are still asleep not even the threat of redundancy has woken them up. That said the mandatory muzzling for the staff might do the trick especially when they develop chest infections, dizzy spells, nausea, mask mouth, impetigo, rashes and have to call in sick.

147301 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Norma McNormalface, 7, #466 of 2331 🔗

That includes me, then. I supported the idea that we didn’t know how fatal the virus was, nd followed the advice of the Chief Medical Officer. Especially when deaths did start to mount up. With the lockdowns happening across Europe I thought it was inevitable. We actually did have around 40,000 more deaths in April than the 5 year moving average.

My scepticism came from reading the ONS data about actual fatalities. At that point, it didn’t add up. My view is that the initial shock of the virus cut a swathe through the terminally ill. The counter-argument is that it would have kept on going. Normally, about 9% of the 85+ age group would have died by August. This year it was 11%. My argument is that it would have reached a peak. The counter-argument is that the peak might have been at 15% or 20%. You need a lot of data to decide that the virus is not sufficiently fatal to merit the restrictions.

147319 ▶▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to WhyNow, 4, #467 of 2331 🔗

We knew who the vulnerable groups were from early data yet how often in the early days did we hear “this virus doesn’t discriminate” ?

147526 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to WhyNow, 3, #468 of 2331 🔗

I self isolated the week before lockdown because the press were painting a picture of people dying covered in boils and lesions, drowning with lungs full of septic puss ( not knowing that this extract from a Plague manual was in support of SAGEs project fear).

Quarantine was boring and I found myself a ‘key worker, after 3 weeks out and about I concluded that the worst was over and expected johnson to say so any day. . .

My mounting scepticism was confirmed when, at Hector Drummonds blog I was shown the ONS stat for week 20 with London deaths lower than average.

Even then johnson could have retained some dignity by declaring lockdown over and resigning due to ill health.

147845 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to karenovirus, 1, #469 of 2331 🔗

Pretty much same as me. I realised something was up when you could not buy hand sanitizer, weeks before lockdown. Then, by about May, it started to become clear that the BBC stuff was mainly propaganda.

147974 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to karenovirus, 3, #470 of 2331 🔗

As a sceptic, I have been going out unmasked,- as normal the whole year.

I have had NO VIRAL ILLNESS AT ALL. My healthiest year ever.

All that social distancing and cleaning of the buses has worked wonders.

It astounds me to see everyone going masked.

148059 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Kate, #471 of 2331 🔗

I have never worn a mask except when collecting my monthly prescription from my chemist and then only as a courtesy, a couple of times when contractually obliged to by my employers clients and when using the toilets in the hospitals.

People wear masks because otherwise they would have to admit to themselves that they put up with all the rest of the nonsense for no good reason.

147514 ▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Norma McNormalface, 3, #472 of 2331 🔗

‘It’s become very fashionable to say “we didn’t know”. We did know. We just didn’t say anything.’

I don’t think that’s fair. I certainly knew, and was saying in March that it was a descent into madness, but that’s because I’ve been sceptical of government and the mainstream media for years. As far as I can see, most people didn’t know much about the virus back then and accepted what they were told. You can blame them for not paying attention, and for not realising how incompetent and dishonest our politicians and the media are, but then … this site is full of people who thought Boris Johnson was fit to be Prime Minister. How dumb was that? What’s needed now is a consensus on how we get out of the mess; shaming people for not realising sooner won’t help.

147912 ▶▶▶ Norma McNormalface, replying to Malcolm Ramsay, 2, #473 of 2331 🔗

Actually, re-reading my post, it looks like I’m having a go at the general public or someone like yourself when I say “we”. But I was thinking more about high profile people who are only coming out as sceptics now (politicians, journalists and others with a platform) whose job it is to pay attention to the details and ask questions, like you were!

147225 Graham3, replying to Graham3, 2, #474 of 2331 🔗

I recall the diet for AIDS- kippers and Ryvita.
It’s all you can slide under the door.

147396 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Graham3, #475 of 2331 🔗

Could you not extend to pancakes 😉

147671 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #476 of 2331 🔗

thats just a load of crepes

147229 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 15, #477 of 2331 🔗

Matt Hancock was on Sky News this morning. Kay Burley put the false positive point to him. Again he demonstrated that he does not know that the false positive rate refers to the number of tests. This level of statistical ignorance is shocking – and it isn’t just one minister: it is the whole government. Given all the scientific advisors at the government’s disposal, it cannot be ignorance.

147235 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #478 of 2331 🔗

He also probably believes thermometers left in boxes for years in a field with minimal maintenance can read temperatures to a greater precision than a thermocouple in a highly controlled environment.

They have no concept of real world errors or how to measure things

147984 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to mhcp, #479 of 2331 🔗

When the regime pretend to be ignorant, bumbling, and well meaning you know there is a cunning plan.

Maybe install another Boris?

147242 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #480 of 2331 🔗

Incredible that he didn’t buff up on the FPR since the other day when he muffed his way through his wonky explanation of it and got totally hammered for it. What an arrogant tosspot.

147274 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #481 of 2331 🔗

But Kay burley no doubt gave him an easy time, she is shit and a waste of space. If anyone in MSM had a backbone or are a serious journalist the whole thing would of lasted a week.

147412 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to stefarm, #482 of 2331 🔗

She completely accepted his assertion that false positives were a non-problem.

147813 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Steve Hayes, #483 of 2331 🔗

That’s the point. Give him the yimage ofvalidity

147527 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stefarm, 2, #484 of 2331 🔗

Kay Bruley…remember those travel slots she did where she went to a outside broadcaster in former tourist hot-spot to see what was going on..”So Dave, how is it in Las Vegas right now!” Well Kay, it’s empty”. “Haha great!” says Kay.

I really hate that woman. Evil with knobs one.

147231 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 20, #485 of 2331 🔗

“just fifty years ago, the number of over-80s was nothing like the number it is today, and since they are the people most dying with this virus, we can conclude that these wild measures would not have been taken some years ago, because the people would have already been dead.”

That is possibly the most important point. At 60, I have both parents and step parents, ranging in age from 85 to 93. All are living in their own homes and only my stepmother requires additional care. Their parents didn’t live to these ages; my father’s mother died at 40 of what would now be a treatable cancer and his father at 62 from a combination of the effects of gas in the Great War and TB caught from his cows. There was apparently a’flu pandemic in 1968 but I have no memory of it. Perhaps it was more apparent in the cities but, in the Nottinghamshire countryside, we just got on with our lives in the normal way although my maternal grandmother, who had lost a teenage brother to TB and had two sisters rendered profoundly deaf from a childhood illness, was slightly obsessive about hand washing and clean handkerchiefs. Having spent most of her life before the NHS and antibiotics, they were the only weapons she had.

People born at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries accepted death; they had seen enough of it; in my family’s case in both people and animals. They had a stoic ‘when your number’s up’ attitude and I know that my beloved maternal grandparents, who left school at 13 to work on the land, wouldn’t have wanted me to lose a day of my education for them.

147339 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Caroline Watson, 5, #486 of 2331 🔗

There was a pandemic (using the old definition from WHO) of Hong Kong flu in the late 60’s. We went to school as normal, the Olympic Games continued, the Woodstock festival took place in the USA.
One of the astronauts in Apollo 8 was infected and developed symptoms on the way to the moon, he contracted it from President Johnson.
It is estimated that up to 4 million people died across the world.
There was an Asian flu pandemic in the late 50’s, but I was only 2 at the time.

147545 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to p02099003, 1, #487 of 2331 🔗

I remember Hong Kong flu on the b/w telly but was too busy having fun with my mates to take any notice of it.

147986 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Caroline Watson, #488 of 2331 🔗

That’s true, when I was a child people regularly died in their sixties.
Absurdly young now.

147234 CGL, replying to CGL, 6, #489 of 2331 🔗

Livid – daughter just texted to say they are going to have to wear masks around the school from Monday.

Please can one of you clever and knowledgeable people post a link to the stuff that says about risk assessments and suing them if there are detrimental effects. Thanking you in advance.

147283 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to CGL, 3, #490 of 2331 🔗

You might find the UsForThem website helpful with this..

147327 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to CGL, 7, #491 of 2331 🔗

How old is your daughter? Ask the school for a printed copy of the risk assessment undertaken, use FOI if needs be. I know that concern has been raised by dentists in both the U.K. and USA about poor oral health associated with mouth breathing through masks, which for young people could be catastrophic. Also, the development of dental caries or abscesses can lead to heart problems.

147377 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to p02099003, 1, #492 of 2331 🔗

Thank you – I have just sent an email covering those things – lets see what they come back with.

148565 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to p02099003, 1, #493 of 2331 🔗

Apparently in Germany a 13yold keeled over dead on the bus and there are rumours that mask wearing caused a build up of Co2 and electrolytes going haywire causing a heart attack. The PM was inconclusive, but medical experience suggests this as a cause of death. Very rare though!!

147394 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CGL, 4, #494 of 2331 🔗

Many parents on Twitter have also mentioned that they have requested the details for who to contact in the school should their kid develop health problems due to mask wearing.

Ditto also asking for a copy of the risk assessment undertaken.

147449 ▶▶ CGL, replying to CGL, 13, #495 of 2331 🔗

Letter just sent:-

Please can you forward me the risk assessment that the school has done before the mandatory mask wearing comes into effect next Monday?

I have searched for data showing that masks are effective on any virus, and as far as I am aware there isn’t one that proves they are. If you have found one I would be very interested to see it.

The health effects of mask wearing are far more detrimental than not wearing them, in every way possible.

Our youngest already has dental issues and dentists are warning that our dental health is going to be impacted by the wearing of masks due to mouth-breathing generating more bacteria in the mouth.

If the pupils are to be taking masks on and off all day, that is even worse as, even if they don’t continually fiddle with them (which everyone does), they are touching them when they take them on and off, and putting them in a (clean?) pocket or bag, or under their chin (not hygienic), and then putting them back on again several times a day between classes and at break times.

Masks are made to be used once. Should the pupils be bringing 8 or 9 masks each day. If so, considering the expense of that, the school should really pay for them, if that is what it has decided to impose.

On the packaging for the blue masks that most people are wearing, it specifically states that they are not effective for use against viruses. Face coverings are still less effective. Please have a look at the following by the Centre for Evidenced Based Medicine at Oxford University (Prof Carl Heneghan):-

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

I would also like to be clear that if either of our children suffer any ill effects from the wearing of masks (mask-mouth, dental complications or any other aspect), we will be holding the school accountable.

Best wishes,

147466 ▶▶▶ rms, replying to CGL, 3, #496 of 2331 🔗

The Controls Catalog attached to the assessment of risk should also quantify as best as possible the reduced probability and impact(s) of the control measure (wear masks all the time), and document the known knock-on issues and risks, e.g. the dental risk you mention. Surely they can think of others. They can’t rely on hand-waving. (but they will).

147482 ▶▶ davews, replying to CGL, 2, #497 of 2331 🔗

I see the boy and girl opposite have their masks held dangling with one strap in their mouth when they leave for school. Is this how they think it will help them?

147536 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to davews, 1, #498 of 2331 🔗

The could stick it in their ear – it would do just as much good.

147915 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to CGL, 1, #499 of 2331 🔗

Your daughter is of course exempt , CGL.

147236 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #500 of 2331 🔗

Why are they keeping the DNA of everyone tested for Coronavirus? I read it was ‘fake news’ but apparently not, its true.

147243 ▶▶ dpj, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #501 of 2331 🔗

The experts at the BBC have already fact checked this on our behalf https://www.bbc.com/news/54202656

147289 ▶▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to dpj, 2, #502 of 2331 🔗

I would like to hope thats true but the detail of the law as posted suggests otherwise. I would not trust the BBC fact checkers at all. If the letter of the law appears to allow it, it will haopen

147295 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #503 of 2331 🔗

Yes, totally agree, they dismissed HCQ in a similar article so definitely not to be relied on.

147998 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to dpj, #504 of 2331 🔗

They are also lying about the nature of Covid19.(in the same article)

That virus never jumped naturally from a bat. They have been growing these coronaviruses for years in human lung tissue in Wuhan, and with US money, too.
So much for BBC fact checkers. State propaganda.

147239 Bill h, replying to Bill h, 4, #506 of 2331 🔗

Paper here from Norway, republished by the centre for evidence based medicines.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/pcr-positives-what-do-they-mean/

It essentially makes the case that PCR tests as currently used have no predictive value in charting the spread of the disease.

I found it quite hard going, but as a bonus it has several thought provoking graphs.

Cheers

147390 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Bill h, 1, #507 of 2331 🔗

it basically just says that wile PCR results are going up across europe, 3 week later deaths arent really. so PCR results have no predictive power. but we knew that. some people think its FP, some people think its because the young are getting it.

I think PCR +vs are going up because its seasonal, like other colds. Its not killing many because its not very dangerous and vulnerable people are better protected

147248 shorthand, replying to shorthand, 8, #508 of 2331 🔗

Just watched Matt Handcnut on sky squirming his way through trying to explain what a ‘committed relationship’ is and if we aren’t in one we should be careful. Sure that won’t sit well with all his MP chums with their mistresses….

147308 ▶▶ Sue, replying to shorthand, 1, #509 of 2331 🔗

or ferguson and his mistress who he was caught bonking against the government guidelines!! 🙂

147250 Dan Clarke, 5, #510 of 2331 🔗

It appears that Johnson & his cabinet are being kept isolated by the ‘advisors’ of team covid. And can’t see the wood for the trees now. Why do we need an app if muzzles work. Seems that they want everything to fail, and lead us to the vaccination and where the big money lies.

147255 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 4, #511 of 2331 🔗

Has this been posted already?:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

Revealed: Sir Patrick Vallance has £600,000 shareholding in firm contracted to develop vaccines

147909 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, #512 of 2331 🔗

The Man who Shot Liberty – Vallance.

147256 alw, 6, #513 of 2331 🔗

See that the MSM are today reporting the conflict of interest and lack of independence and dodgy charts of ‘Witless and Unbalanced”. Is it too much to hope that the tide is turning and we will see the back of them very soon?

147258 Awkward Git, 9, #514 of 2331 🔗

Over a week and still can’t post anything to annoy the trolls and sheeple on the Daily Fail.

Am trying to put this on”What country we talking about when? Making a minority wear markings so they can be recognised, increasing violence towards these people, more and more rules so these people find it harder to shop or get food or work, all steps to stricter laws done incrementally, relentless propaganda on all MSM channels promoting pro-government actions, quasi-military uniformed people on the streets “advising” on laws, more militant actions by Police against peaceful anti-Government protests while pro-narrative rallies that turn violent are unopposed, big business protected and helped while little business forgotten, warrantless arrest and held without charge “for society’s good” laws and so on? What Country? UK today? No it’s pre-war nazi Germany – spot it yet do you?”

Good to see though mention of Greta reset, Covipass etc getting through and then the trolls and sheeple down voting them so they are hitting a nerve with someone.

147262 Steve, replying to Steve, 28, #515 of 2331 🔗

As shop and hospitality workers now need to wear masks at work, I think it’s only right that MPs and peers should have to wear masks in the Houses Of Parliament, only being allowed to take them off when eating and drinking.

We’ll see how long the completely useless enforced mask wearing edict lasts then…

147281 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve, 11, #516 of 2331 🔗

I think the likes of Julia Hartley- Brewer should in interviews produce the multiple photos doing the rounds on in the internet, of groups of ministers not social distancing, and call them out on it!

147304 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steve, 4, #517 of 2331 🔗

I completely agree. Those that make these edicts should apply them to themselves. They should lead by example – the whole working day – not the odd photo-shoot. Vallance and Whitty leaving No.10 wearing masks. What’s the chance of them been photographed outdoors wearing masks otherwise?

And anyway, how is going to be enforced? Mass non-compliance would soon put an end to it.

147268 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 3, #518 of 2331 🔗

yesterday Mayo was pretty impressed when he discovered in Ferguson’s 20 page report – he may have got something right.

I’ve had a look at it (but I have no knowledge of these things);

Seems to me that Ferguson predicted the first wave after it had started then seems to confirm that covid19, like the other corona viruses, is seasonal, goes in the spring and returns in the autumn.

The scale of the return appears to be a tad optimistic and Mayo’s reasoning for the magnitude to be less is because the pubs are shutting at 10pm – can’t say I’m convinced – but maybe this is the real reason whitty and vallance want maximum lockdown – so they can claim the magnitude would have been far greater without intervention.

Does anybody have any thought?

Mayo’s post:

Mayo
9 hours ago

Reply to nowhereman
This is the March 16th paper by Imperial
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
Scroll down to Page 10. Then look at the green line in Fig(b). That’s the prediction for the UK strategy.
Not only does Ferguson get the timing of the first “wave” right, he’s spot on with the timing of the second “wave”. The magnitude won’t be right but he could argue that we are suppressing with the current intervention measures.
Pretty impressive.

147353 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Major Panic, 3, #519 of 2331 🔗

It is the order of magnitude that Ferguson gets wrong every time, and that is not a minor fault

147372 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Major Panic, 3, #520 of 2331 🔗

look at page 10. he doesn’t assume it is seasonal at all. He just predicts second waves shortly after restrictions are lifted. he also predicted the drop in infections to be solely due to lockdowns. sweden showed that cant be right

147489 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to steve_w, 2, #521 of 2331 🔗

he doesn’t assume it is seasonal at all”

sorry, its the shit way I wrote MY observation – I am unaware of Ferguson ever saying it was seasonal, though that is what the ”green line” suggested to me – its just another seasonal respiratory infection.

147517 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Major Panic, 2, #522 of 2331 🔗

The predicted timing of the first wave isn’t even right, Mayo/Neil has it peaking in mid May, versus the actual peak which was in mid April. And the November peak he shows is not a second peak, it is the first peak delayed due to lockdown preventing a first peak (green and brown curves). And as we know the predicted magnitude of the first wave was completely over-estimated. So way off all round…

147277 WhyNow, 16, #524 of 2331 🔗

What is becoming clear is how much the media, and especially the BBC, are responsible for creating public hysteria and forcing governments and civil servants into media-friendly defensive positions.

This is the root of the idea that we must “eliminate” the virus and “save lives” and “protect the NHS”. All directed towards placating the media, and especially the BBC.

147279 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 11, #525 of 2331 🔗

Yesterday (23/09/2020) police were wandering the streets of Birmingham City Centre harassing people and telling them to wear masks ON THE STREET

147291 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to FrankiiB, 11, #526 of 2331 🔗

I find this unbelievable but if it’s the case then it should be filmed and raised with the police themselves, there is no legal obligation to wear masks on the street.

147326 ▶▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #527 of 2331 🔗

I think I am going to buy a little body cam so if anyone speaks to me or I am asked at supermarket then I can record it. Mind you I do wear an exempt badge

147994 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to jhfreedom, #528 of 2331 🔗

Never been the vaguest hint of advice to either.

147290 Kev, replying to Kev, 17, #529 of 2331 🔗

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said the UK government does not “rule out” telling university students not to go home at Christmas to avoid spreading infection if the coronavirus crisis worsens.

“We haven’t reached that point yet,” he told BBC Breakfast. “I don’t rule out anything.

“And if you have the last nine months that I’ve had, you’d understand why we don’t rule out anything. It’s not something that I want to do.

He thinks he’s had a tough nine months does he? Nothing compared to what lies in his future when he’s brought to account for what he wrought on the people of this country!

147300 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kev, 2, #530 of 2331 🔗

Cue mass drop out of students from university!

147325 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Carrie, 1, #531 of 2331 🔗

And they should be able to cancel their year and get a full refund on fee’s.

147316 ▶▶ davews, replying to Kev, 6, #532 of 2331 🔗

When I went to university (over 50 years ago) I found the first term away from home very hard – never been away for that long before and loneliness really got to me. I simply can’t imagine myself coping with the nonsense freshers are having this year and telling them they cannot go home to their parents is cruel in the extreme.

Eldest great niece has just started at Oxford. No feedback yet but it can’t be nice for her. Being relatively near I could easily pop up there and visit but guess that is totally verboten at the moment.

147332 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to davews, 1, #533 of 2331 🔗

My youngest daughter graduated this year, albeit remotely for Spring term.

She said she would have just come home now if that was being threatened.

147401 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Kev, 2, #534 of 2331 🔗

If he doesn’t rule out anything, why not just mow us all down in the street with a machine gun and solve the problem once and for all?

148044 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to A. Contrarian, #535 of 2331 🔗

Good idea, we are all a biohazard now!

147411 ▶▶ Drummerman, replying to Kev, 2, #536 of 2331 🔗

That is the cruellest shit I’ve heard in a long time (and there’s been plenty in the past 6 months). He’s going to force quarantine on the entire student demographic? What a fucking tool.

147445 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Kev, 1, #537 of 2331 🔗

and they would charge the students for the privilege!!!
Handcock is a complete plank – honestly can’t believe the shit that he comes out with – it’s truely embarrassing to have politicians of such low calibre!

148048 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Sue, #538 of 2331 🔗

He hasn’t met this year’s intake of students.

I have, the current 19 yr olds have a strong inner warrior. It’s a generational thing. They won’t forget this.

147905 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Kev, 1, #539 of 2331 🔗

How are they going to get their washing done?

Sorry, I’ll get my coat…

147293 davews, replying to davews, 5, #540 of 2331 🔗

A bad night’s sleep last night. We had a church Zoom meeting then just before turning in I decided to have a last look at the comments here, bad move. Read the one about the chap with a panic attack and couldn’t get it off my mind, absolutely awful.

Our church minister suggests that although the numbers on christenings are now limited to 5 (or is it 6) including the baby if that christening is part of a normal church service (which it usually is) the rule doesn’t apply and you can have as many as you like subject to social distancing…

Just had my first walk of the day, through our local train station which everybody uses as a short cut. I was challenged for not wearing a mask by an official – who I first mistook for a passenger as he was in casual clothes, he showed me is ID card. Explained that I was exempt anyway but didn’t think I needed one just to walk through the uncovered (deserted) station. Of course no exemption certificate with me, maybe ought to leave it in my coat all the time. Pleasant chat but it seems they are clamping down. Fortunately our Tesco still looks to be walk straight in but suspect that will change. Not nice times to say the least.

147902 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to davews, 1, #541 of 2331 🔗

You don’t need an exemption certificate. You don’t need any verification. You might elect to wear a lanyard exemption card if you choose, which you can pull out from under a zipped top when entering a shop. But you are not required to even do that.

Print-off from this page, or these are quite nice:-

https://hiddendisabilitiesstore.com/shop.html

The sunflower exemption card is officially recognised in some national supermarket chains, so you shouldn’t get the slightest peep of a challenge (which would be potentially unlawful anyway) in said chains.

147294 Fruitbat, replying to Fruitbat, 12, #542 of 2331 🔗

I have a membership at the local David Lloyd fitness club. I’ve paid out around £400 in fees since they reopened in July but have only actually been there once because the main thing that used to tempt me down there was using the spa which remains closed. None of my favourite classes are running and those that are get booked really quickly, presumably because so many people remain on furlough and they have reduced the number of spaces. It’s also really tedious having to spray chemicals and wipe down everything you touch in the gym before and after use (previously I would only wipe things with a towel if I left a sweaty mark).

Unfortunately I can’t cancel my membership because I am tied into a contract for a year, which has now been extended into next year to make up for the time they were closed. I could suspend my membership but that still means paying 25% fees each month and just further extends the time before I can end the contract and part of me is also concerned about that staff working there if too many people choose to do this.

However, what feels like the final straw for me is we’ve now been told that in line with the new rules, members will have to wear face coverings when using the café/restaurant until they are seated at the table. Staff will also be wearing masks which really upsets me as the one redeeming feature of my previous visit was that there was not a mask in sight.

But what is really getting to me is the complete insanity of this situation: I can go to the gym, take a friend using a guest pass we can go into the changing area. Chat with other members in there, use the lockers. Attend a class with perhaps another twenty people, stand around chatting to them. Most likely get very sweaty and breath very hard. Go to the gym area, chat to other members there. Go back to the changing room, use the shared shower area and get changed with other members. But after all that, the moment we cross the threshold into the open plan club room we are expected to put on a mask until we are seated at a table, literally meters away.

I know if I was to ask any of the staff to explain to me the logic of this I would be told that it’s not them making the rules, it’s the government. But here’s the thing. I have had enough of having my intelligence insulted in this way. I am not going to adhere to rules when they require me to perform an intellectual lobotomy on myself. I have had enough of this!

147347 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Fruitbat, #543 of 2331 🔗

Covid is a mcguffin

147362 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Fruitbat, 1, #544 of 2331 🔗

you are exempt from wearing a mask

147315 DRW, replying to DRW, 8, #545 of 2331 🔗

I had a terrible night and wondered: What am I going to do next year?
I am under a sort of semi-self-lockdown as I cannot face the pain of seeing what a dystopian hellscape society has become. Thankfully my last year of university means I can stay a near-recluse in my room for the next year or so but by next summer I will be expected to start going out again. If we’re still in this shit by then I think I will just be completely finished.

147406 ▶▶ Drummerman, replying to DRW, 5, #546 of 2331 🔗

Sounds like this is a very difficult time for you, DRW. You may have tried them already, but if you haven’t maybe think about calling Samaritans – 116 123. It’s free. Or you can email at jo@samaritans.org . You can even ‘live chat’ with them – that started just the other day – and you’ll find a link on their website. You can talk to them about whatever it is that’s causing you distress.

147321 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 17, #547 of 2331 🔗

If ‘covid’ is so deadly why aren’t masks being treated as a serious bio hazard? Surely if me not wearing a mask makes me a ‘granny killer’ then the mask contains the captured ‘killer virus’? I see masks discarded in the street and in public litter bins just breathing into the atmosphere. I honestly think that this sort of irresponsibility could cause an epidemic. Oh wait…

147354 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Arnie, 1, #548 of 2331 🔗

At work I dispose of my mask in the clinical waste bin, so no they shouldn’t be put in the general waste. The question is then are they really contaminated? Why can you dispose of used tissue handkerchiefs in the general waste? Therefore why do I dispose of the masks at work in the clinical waste?

147376 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to p02099003, 1, #549 of 2331 🔗

Herr Boris & his chums have told so many lies. My Granny used to tell me ‘one lie leads to a hundred more being told so don’t do it’. I’ll never be a politician because I have the misfortune of being honest.

I could probably eat all the masks out of the bin & all I’d get is indigestion, and hepatitis, and herpes, etc. But I wouldn’t get ‘covid’…

147429 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Arnie, 4, #550 of 2331 🔗

By definition they have to be classified as bio-hazard, regardless of whether you believe the virus is dangerous or not, the official assumption is it is deadly and masks suppress its spread.

As a bio-hazard, once it is touched, moved or removed it is contaminated and should be disposed of safely, or if its fabric it should be stored safely until it can be treated.

However, we have not been told what safe disposal constitutes, nor have we been told how a re-usable mask should be treated, is it mandatory boil wash and 8 hours in a 50:50 bleach solution?

No-one knows, because its all bollocks, and the government know it.

Also, what constitues a facecovering?

If we are of a mind, we have a real oppurtunity to get creative here. A scallop shell sellotaped to your cheek, a paperback novel and some elastic nbands, a stuffed dead ferret and a tie-rap.

147598 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Arnie, 1, #551 of 2331 🔗

Not just masks. There are many things that in a non-domestic situation that would be classed as “hazardous waste” anywhere else and I’m thinking specifically here of disposable baby nappies.

147323 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #552 of 2331 🔗

Sent to the College of Policing:

I do understand from your website that you are not an operational organisation and do not perform policing and investigations but you do issue guidance on how to enforce laws to all Police Forces in the country so thought I would ask you about this guidance.

Bearing in mind that “I was just following orders” is not a valid nor acceptable defence in court (Nuremberg Defence) and that here are increasing reasons to believe that there is treasonous behaviour being perpetrated against the Monarchy, this country and the 2 Houses of Parliament how does this affect the legality of the legislation being introduced as part of the treasonous behaviour and it’s enforcement?

If the introduction of the legislation is done under suspected or possible treasonous behaviour this makes all the legislation invalid doesn’t it?

The first piece of “coronavirus” legislation that was introduced at 2.30 pm on the 10th February 2020 without Parliamentary oversight or debate (and the release of a statement on the 30th January 2020 by the 4 Chief Medical Officers of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland that was prophetic as it was not actually required until the legislation introduced on the 10th February 2020 and was instrumental for the introduction of all following “coronavirus” legislation) and now the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has threatened the use of the British Army against the population of this country in addition to the on-going and continuing use of the 77th Brigade in manipulating social media and the internet reporting of the “pandemic” backed up by using OFCOM to bully and threaten broadcasters who step out of line on pro-narrative reporting and the use of all MSM broadcasters to bombard the population continuously with psychological programming and propaganda.

Why do I think treason is currently on-going?

Well the definition of treason in the various pieces of legislation that are still in force and have never been repealed is different than that in a standard dictionary.

In the 1351 Treason Act it states:

“Declaration what Offences shall be adjudged Treason.”

“if a Man do levy War against our Lord the King in his Realm, be adherent to the King’s Enemies in his Realm, giving to them Aid and Comfort in the Realm, or elsewhere”

Definition of adherent:  A supporter, as of a cause or individual

In the 1848 Treason Felony Act it states as an act of treason against Person of His said Majesty, His Heirs or Successors :

“to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament”

Definition of overawe:

Transitive Verb

: to restrain or subdue by awe

Definition of awe:
1
: an emotion variously combining dread, veneration , and wonder that is inspired by authority or by the sacred or sublime

2
archaic definition that would have been in use when the Act was written:

a
: DREAD , TERROR
b
: the power to inspire dread

Certain persons in Parliament and their advisors are increasingly likely and can be seen to be adherents that are linked in an almost incestuous web of finance and connections to a few organisations and individuals who’s names keep appearing over and over again when these links are looked at even superficially and these adherents have given them aid and comfort (reported openly are billions of pounds sterling “donated” to GAVI and WHO amongst others and many “ contracts” for vaccines given to companies that are connected to these adherents and the organisations they are supporting) and both Houses of Parliament seem to be overawed as this is the only logical reason they are silent and so supine up until now.

The Prime minister has been reported in recent months to be “looking at reviewing the laws on treason” which is quite telling based on the above description of what constitutes treason.

Unfortunately the reports corroborating my statement seem to be getting deleted form the internet so are very hard to find now which again is quite telling under the circumstances.

I look forward to your answer on how this affects your guidance.

Also, who do I contact to report this as a crime?

Would it be:

  • my local constabulary’s Chief Constable?
  • my local Police and Crime Commissioner?
  • Her Majesty the Queen?
  • The Speaker of the House of Commons?
  • the Head of the Defence Staff?
  • the National Crime Agency?

Will let you know if they ever answer.

147433 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #553 of 2331 🔗

Wow, that’s gray stuff Awkward. Go for it! I look forward to seeing how you get on.

147600 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #554 of 2331 🔗

Emmensely good work Mr Git.
Entirely reasonable of you to ask such a question. The unsaid implication about police consent ought to be present in the mind of anyone who replies to you.

For what it’s worth I, as a reasonable person, feel there is a case to answer, for an investigation of treason to happen. A jury of 12/15 people is taken to represent the reasonable man of Great Britain. I suggest that reasonable man would recognise the strong merit which your questions have.

Asking the cop factory is inspired.

Brillant Mr Git.

147324 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 15, #555 of 2331 🔗

This is National Socialism now. Blue Labour have lurched so hard and so fast left that even Labours Momentum group are to the right of Boris & his chums.

If Jeremy Corbyn were still in charge of Labour, 1) I don’t think he would have gone as far as Boris, and 2) I chuckle to myself thinking of him doing the opposite of crosseyed looking both left and right at the same time wondering what the hell has happened.

The fact that the ‘Conservative’s’ have lurched so hard and fast to the left has left Labour to the right of them, but still on the left wing if that makes sense, the (i)Liberal (un)Democrats have now swung to the right of Labour, but again still on the left wing, with their statement that they will no longer stand for this country’s loss of freedom & liberty (a collective conundrum of conflict with previous assertions to say the least! ).

But Boris wrote about Churchill being his hero I hear you cry, yes he did, and amongst many who have had great battles many have respect, and sometimes great admiration, for their enemies. I suspect Hitler might have held Churchill in the same regard.

We now have the looming threat of jackboots on the streets. How many more similarities are there, or are there going to be with 1930’s Germany? Suppression of dissent? Yep. Book burning? Well yes, less obvious but many scientific papers that don’t toe the line are disappearing or facing censorship.

BLM and Extinction Rebellion merit a special mention here as arms of the government clamping down on dissent (which used to be called freedom of speech, and freedom of thought). They even have their natty little uniforms, which in fairness are easier on the eye than those of the brown shirts and the Hitler youth of the past. Of course we also have the ‘covid wombles’ as another branch of enforcement coming up too…

Punishment for protesting against the party line? It’s all out of proportion to questioning the narrative. £10,000 fine from a PCSO anyone? Eight month remand (prison) without charge for ‘covid’ related crime? Even asking ‘why?’ brings you the label of being an unbeliever.

Those who suffered in the concentration camps were tattooed. Now we have this looming threat of being tattooed with the vaccine or out becoming an outcast. There will be no mandation, of course not we’re a free country don’t you know? But you won’t be able to travel, or apply for a driving licence, or engage in education, or apply for a passport. But it definitely won’t be mandatory.

So I’m right wing. Old school Conservative in the vein of Thatcher/Farage, towards the right of the Conservative party if it was in its rightful place. I am now ‘far right’, quite literally, not because my values have moved but because I’m now in a void surrounded by the vacuum of space. It’s an eternity to my closest neighbours the Lib Dems.

I estimate, possibly conservatively (ha!), that I represent 50% maybe even 60-65% of the population. But that then doesn’t answer the question as to why do many want us all to be under house arrest, or for ‘wrongthinkers’ like me to treated like murderers for not wearing a mask?

Is this the ‘madness of crowds’ that we hear about? Fueled by the MSN and social media giants, spoonfed minute by minute the hysteria. If people are that fickle then there is hope. At least some. That they could easily be persuaded to lean the other way.

I’ll finish on a hopeful note. My young family sat with me to watch Herr Johnson’s speech on Tuesday. My seven year old said ‘he’s lying Daddy’ three times throughout the speech. I asked why they thought this? ‘You can just tell, Daddy, will he get told off? I would.’. From the mouths of babes…

147435 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Arnie, -3, #556 of 2331 🔗

Blue Labour have lurched so hard and so fast left”

What a stupid contradiction of the reality! Playpen political analysis.

147480 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Arnie, 3, #557 of 2331 🔗

No this is about authoritarianism and collectivism rather than being a left-right thing as we have traditionally understood. It doesn’t help that social programs often lead to authoritarianism without proper overwatch or that certain aspects of the Left have now moved to extreme collectivism with their Woke culture but it’s a bit naive to say left-right.

Sweden for the most part is more left leaning in politics with more social systems than us and yet their policy isn’t authoritarian.

147534 ▶▶ sarnskeptic, replying to Arnie, 1, #558 of 2331 🔗

I wouldn’t take the polling as particularly indicative because the issue and views are quite complex. I agree with you and everyone else here as regards lockdowns, but I think most skeptics in the population would question whether the latest “restrictions” are of any value whatsoever according to the government’s own avowed position. Closing the pubs early is laughable and the fear is that the cases will go up, fast, and then we’ll be back into another 3 months of sitting around not being allowed out etc. Most people will take the view that it would be better to have 2-3 weeks now, see it off until November and then rinse and repeat.

one possible reason why the polling comes back looking so illiberal. Also consider that these small scale polls really are tiny samples and aren’t representative, especially when done online.

147889 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Arnie, 2, #559 of 2331 🔗

My seven year old said ‘he’s lying Daddy’ three times throughout the speech.

Brilliant.

148071 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Arnie, #560 of 2331 🔗

I remember a story told by Oliver Sacks, about a group of stroke patients who had lost the ability to understand speech, falling about laughing at a politician’s speech on television.

Their ability to understand visual cues had not diminished, and they were not side-tracked by the verbiage.

They were laughing at the obvious insincerity they could see on his face.

147328 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, #561 of 2331 🔗

Doesn’t look good does it? Sweden slowly turning in the same direction. Christ, if that happens it’s all over. Probably the most depressing LS page I’ve read to date.
The Propaganda and Mind Control has done it’s job in the UK, all these polls are just part of the tool kit, we’re well and truly sunk I fear.
We needed a Political Party weeks ago and if one ever surfaces it’s got an absolute mountain to climb. 🙁

147343 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to NonCompliant, 7, #562 of 2331 🔗

If my friends or family are anything to go by any political party called ‘Fuck Boris’ will win by an absolute landslide. Herr Boris’ speech on Tuesday changed many minds where I live from acceptance or waving to the aforementioned ‘Fuck Boris’.

Hang in there, it ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

147359 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NonCompliant, 11, #563 of 2331 🔗

Please see my longer post regarding Sweden further down this thread – remember that the world’s press have vested interests in Sweden failing and will report anything..

There is a press conference here in Sweden at the beginning of every week where Tegnell basically has to defend his policy in the presence of government ministers, and he is always well up-to-date and has all the figures to hand.

There are elements of the Swedish press (Gates-influenced ?) who are forever on his back so he has to choose his words carefully and at least *appear* to be keeping an open mind. With Norway and Denmark now seeing rising cases and mandating masks in some situations, you can imaging the pressure Tegnell is under.

When he says *can* in terms of measures being introduced, he means ‘can’, not ‘will’ (unlike in the UK). You might like to listen more to Giesecke, who is not so directly involved here but who it is clear is in contact with Tegnell.. Yesterday Giesecke, when talking to the Irish Covid committee, was very firm on that Sweden did not mandate masks and sees the evidence for their effectiveness as being very weak.

Because of the press conferences, at which all the stats are laid out, the press the following day here tends to seize on the worst elements of what has been said (like all press do) and the foregoing press seem to try to pick out every nugget of negative information possible. Today, the online national newspapers here do not have Covid as the main story any more…

147398 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 8, #564 of 2331 🔗

Here is the latest summary report from the Swedish Public Health Agency:

The situation in Sweden
In Sweden, covid-19 continues to circulate in society. As expected, local outbreaks of infection are seen in connection with, for example, leisure activities and events. It is largely among young people and young adults that this spread of infection has been detected, but the infection risks spreading to people in other age groups in, for example, households. It is still important that everyone, including adolescents and young adults, stays home at the slightest symptom that may be a sign of covid-19 infection. See also the advice and recommendations that apply.

There is still a high incidence of cold symptoms in society in general, which increases the demand for testing for covid-19. During week 37, over 140,000 tests were analyzed. The increasing incidence of cold symptoms is generally judged to be due to an increased spread of other respiratory viruses, but in some age groups also covid-19.

During week 37, 1,598 cases were reported, which is more than the previous week (1,332 cases) and an increase compared to the average for weeks 34-36. The proportion of tests that were positive in laboratory analysis was 1.2 percent, which is the same level as week 36. Nationally, the incidence was 15.5 cases per 100,000 inhabitants during week 37. The incidence over 14 days (weeks 36 and 37 in total) was 28 cases per 100,000 inhabitants.

Regional differences can be seen in both the number of cases of covid-19 and the proportion of positive samples and the number of samples taken. The number of cases of covid-19 increased in Dalarna, Jönköping, Uppsala, Västmanland and Örebro, compared with the average for weeks 34-36, while the number of cases decreased in Blekinge and Kalmar and was unchanged in other regions.

The number of new intensive care patients with confirmed covid-19 remained unchanged. Based on data up to and including week 35, the number of deaths nationally remained within the normal range for the season.

There is a much longer version, but thought this should suffice! I’ve picked out some important parts in bold..

147446 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Carrie, 1, #565 of 2331 🔗

Tack så mycket, Carrie!

147454 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #566 of 2331 🔗

Varsågod 🙂

147469 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, 2, #567 of 2331 🔗

Great, thanks Carrie – ”number of new intensive care patients remained unchanged” and ”the number of deaths nationally remained within the normal range for the season” – says it all

147487 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 1, #568 of 2331 🔗

Actually to be fair the numbers in intensive care has gone up by a couple in the last day or so…but then those numbers have been fluctuating a bit for weeks..

Simon Dolan has just arrived in Sweden so hopefully he will get some good interviews!

147492 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, #569 of 2331 🔗

yes, I suppose they are just keeping an eye out for a new trend

147430 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Carrie, 1, #570 of 2331 🔗

A useful perspective, Carrie.

147440 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, #571 of 2331 🔗

Thanks. It is worth listening to everything Giesecke said at the Irish Covid committee meeting – easy to just scroll through and only watch his bits of input!

148075 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Carrie, #572 of 2331 🔗

The Swedes were put under pressure to extradite Assange, and they caved.

147873 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NonCompliant, 1, #573 of 2331 🔗

Even on an excellent free speech site such as this one, there are sound reasons for not posting when depressed to only spread negativity, defeatism, and general gloom.

147330 Stuart C, replying to Stuart C, 7, #574 of 2331 🔗

Just a thought: will those who are obese and have been shielding take the opportunity to lose weight, reduce the risk to themselves and the burden on others? Or will they do nothing and demand the government protects them?

147499 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Stuart C, #575 of 2331 🔗

And that we wear masks while they stuff their faces.

147341 Charlie Blue, replying to Charlie Blue, 13, #576 of 2331 🔗

Response to my recent letter to Lucy Allan, MP from her aide:

Thank you for your email to Lucy.

Lucy is now pushing for a targeted approach to lockdown, focusing on those most at risk. She is distinctly aware of the pressures placed on businesses, individuals and livelihoods by the restrictions.

The complicated and rapidly evolving set of rules has clearly had a difficult and restrictive impact on many people’s lives. Lucy has heard from countless constituents who wish for clarity and candour from the Government. She has spoken out in the House against lockdown mission creep. The public was informed that the aim of lockdowns was to prevent the NHS exceeding its capacity. This has not happened and seems unlikely to do so given the evidence from other countries around the world.

Lucy is concerned at what she sees as the disproportionality of the measures relative to the risk – it is her opinion that to impose draconian emergency powers on the entire populace at this stage in the pandemic is simply not an appropriate way to protect those most at risk. As we know more about the disease and who it affects now, it seems logical to Lucy that we should be able to target restrictions and, crucially, shielding measures to cover those most at risk from the virus. The costs of excessive restrictions will be borne by future generations and leave the exchequer with no choice but to hike taxes or cut spending to balance the books for years to come. Until a vaccine is developed we must learn to live with risk.

It is clear from Lucy’s conversations with constituents that the people of Telford now want to rebuild their lives and are sceptical that further restrictions on their work and personal life will benefit the health of our nation. Lucy is distinctly aware that we will be living with the virus for months, maybe years. As a matter of personal and social responsibility, we should all take measures to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our communities: Hands, Face, Space.

The powers passed by parliament were temporary and intended to ensure the prevention of avoidable deaths. Lucy has been clear that she considers the public to have admirably complied with lockdown restrictions to ensure that the NHS was not overwhelmed, which saved lives. However, many paid a high price in terms of their own jobs, businesses, education, mental health and wellbeing.

The challenge for Government comes when the public perceive these powers to be disproportionate to the risk. The temporary powers Parliament granted to Government are due for review by MPs at the end of September. Parliament will be asked to permit these emergency powers to continue. Lucy believes it is time for Parliament to fully debate and contribute to the Government’s strategy. Lucy is keen to see MPs fully involved in reviewing Coronavirus Act given that measures are currently being implemented by statutory instrument.

Lucy supported handing emergency powers to Government in March to prevent deaths. However, she believes that we are in a different place now and it is therefore incumbent on the Government to make the case for retaining these powers and allowing Parliament to decide if they should continue.

I hope this clarifies Lucy’s position on this issue.

147363 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Charlie Blue, 5, #577 of 2331 🔗

That is a positive response. Hope there are many more like her.

147366 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #578 of 2331 🔗

Encouraging..

147405 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Charlie Blue, 3, #579 of 2331 🔗

Good stuff. Nicely balanced too, not very antagonising to the hysterics either. Wish I could write like that sometimes, I’m waaaay to confrontational most of the time. 😉

147432 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charlie Blue, #580 of 2331 🔗

Apparently this is a non-flyer; the Speaker has ruled out a vote on Brady’s amendment (giving Parliament the chance to vote on new SIs) as it would have no legal force.

So it looks like they either vote to renew the act as it stands or they do not…

147346 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 11, #581 of 2331 🔗

IATA, the global airline trade body, is now pushing for mandatory testing prior to every flight as the solution to the industry’s woes.

It’s a terrible idea. Who refunds a passenger if they test positive and cannot travel? With the false positive issue and the tests finding ‘asymptomatic carriers’, the potential for unexpectedly being denied boarding is huge. Nobody would be able to book a ticket with confidence.

The only solution (as we all know on here), is to accept that this virus is endemic, and realise that people moving from one country where a virus is endemic to another country where it is also endemic is not an issue at all.

Universal airline testing is a bad solution to a politically created problem. Travel quarantines are useless at this stage, so there’s no need to find a way around them. They just need to be abolished.

When I point this out to some colleagues, it draws silence and they don’t seem to want to engage at all.

147349 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 2, #582 of 2331 🔗

Agree, it is ridiculous. A false positive test and you lose all your money.

147386 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Victoria, 2, #583 of 2331 🔗

Some companies are now talking about offering ‘COVID-19 Insurance’, so I presume that would cover the direct cost. But there’s no cover for the inconvenience of not being in the place you need to be at the time you need to be there, which is the whole reason for the existence of the airline industry. I despair.

An old boss of mine once said to me that airlines sell ‘a moment in time’. Mess that up with delays and cancellations and you’ve failed to deliver the product you promised, even if the passenger eventually reaches their destination. Well, now we can throw COVID test results into the mix!

147358 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #584 of 2331 🔗

agree entirely – i love travelling and just returned from greece. If they mandated a test prior to flying i would not travel with the airline/go to that country. Too risky based on the obvious inaccuracy of the tests and turnaround times for results and you can bet your bottom dollar would be no refund.
The airline/travel industry would suffer more IMHO.

147360 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #585 of 2331 🔗

Also would everyone else need to self isolate as they have been exposed to the lurgy?

The travel industry is about to implode and the Govt don’t give a shit. We are not on our knees, we are flat on our face. Hundreds of my colleagues have lost their jobs, thousands more top follow (possibly millions in the entire sector.

147439 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Sarigan, 3, #586 of 2331 🔗

Same here. Most of my colleagues think this is a good solution, but they only think about it very superficially, assuming the tests to be accurate and COVID to be a deadly disease which would be obvious if you had it. As we know, neither is true.

The industry is in bad shape. Every vacancy I apply for already has hundreds of qualified applicants. This time last year there was a shortage of pilots and engineers, and simply submitting a half decent CV with the correct qualifications would almost guarantee an interview. Not so anymore!

147378 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #587 of 2331 🔗

They’re pushing it very hard… airline ads already feature representations of digital tracking & health apps. A covid-pass doesn’t look very diverse though does it? influenza, diphtheria, TB, bronchitis, HIV, are all left out. Don’t we live in the age of equality??!

147389 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #588 of 2331 🔗

That is the natural progression, it’s only Covid for now, then people will be clamouring for more…

147400 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #589 of 2331 🔗

None of them make money anymore, Covid is the big one, every year, renewal of health certs etc

147488 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Stringfellow Hawke, #590 of 2331 🔗

Yes they are. I arrived at Prague airport back in the summer not long after they had basically removed all of their COVID restrictions in the Czech Republic. There was a huge billboard for ‘Covipass’ outside the terminal. At the time, I thought it strange, as all of the restrictions had been removed there. Turns out it was a false dawn.

Now the restrictions are back there, and schemes such as covipass seem to be going full steam ahead worldwide!

147494 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #591 of 2331 🔗

Yeah, that’ll work. Just like masks fill people with confidence to go to the shops.

But it is entirely predictable. And it will never go away, just like all the post 9-11 safety measures stayed (and grew).

Health surveillance has arrived. It’s our future.

147560 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #592 of 2331 🔗

The IATA must be crazy if they think this is the solution to the industry’s problems.

It’s like muzzles for the retail, hospitality, heritage and culture sectors

Just like the shops and museums have been suffering form a significant decrease in footfall when mandatory muzzles were introduced, this measures will kill off tourism and travel. Why would I want to take the risk of planning a holiday abroad when it can be ruined by a flawed and dodgy test?

147633 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #593 of 2331 🔗

They are just following the WEF run WTTC idiocy.

148092 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Awkward Git, #594 of 2331 🔗

Covipass is ideal as you can never ensure complete immunity, you may be reinfected.(Unlike those other infections)

You must be retested regularly.

148607 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #595 of 2331 🔗

And Hancock urges us not to get tested unless we have symptoms as the labs cannot cope.
In Germany you have to pay for a test yourself if you need it to prove you are negative to travel etc.

147356 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 8, #596 of 2331 🔗

It is a rare day I don’t use a bus. Most times it is an open top double decker. I always travel on the top deck.

Occasionally a complete rebellion taking place – everyone has removed their mask. Other times I have to wonder what is driving people to wear them? For instance.

‘Tother day there was but four of us sat on top. All of pensionable age. There is a couple sat right at the front. I’m sat two thirds of the way back. The fourth chap is almost as far back as myself but on the lefthand side of the bus – I’m on the right. We’re sat in the open air. I’m the only one not wearing a mask.

What’s driving the other three to wear a mask? Especially the couple at the front who are constantly chatting to each other?

Have they become like toddlers? – are they doing what they are doing because it is naughty not to? Like exposing one’s bottom.

The nonsensicality of it being permissible to be sat in a pub maskless, but not on an open top bus with the air whistling around your ears seems beyond their reasoning.

147424 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #597 of 2331 🔗

I think people do it because they’re frightened of backlash from other people or getting fined or in trouble with authorities. It’s fear not of the virus or the risk but of going against the rules and getting caught. Also its hard to be seen as the odd one out where the majority are wearing masks. In my opinion anyway.

147509 ▶▶ sarnskeptic, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #598 of 2331 🔗

People wearing masks is no indication of their belief that the government is correct; it’s that they don’t think it’s a “hill worth dying on”. I don’t think I agree with them, but I think everyone I know (family, close colleagues, church-goers) think it’s an absolute nonsense. The majority opinion among them is “they’re stupid but if it makes people feel better I’ll do it”.

148096 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to sarnskeptic, #599 of 2331 🔗

People believe this shit.

I have just spent half an hour trying to convince a very nice local businessman.

No chance, he keeps returning to …..”if only people would be more responsible, we could get this under control….”

148613 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #600 of 2331 🔗

It’s the same with people using sanitiser all the time.
They do not even think about it anymore, what have they touched, have they sneezed or coughed into their hand, since they last used it?

149157 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Silke David, #601 of 2331 🔗

So true. That’s the one alarming thing I’ve seen in warehouses. They all wear gloves because they would anyway (grip). but BEFORE they pu the gloves on, they douse their hands in sanitizer and then after they take them off too. Why? Maybe if they were gonna eat after or whatever……

147357 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 6, #602 of 2331 🔗

So, I’m just reading my organisation covid 19 risk assessment. Some of you may have twigged who I work for and I believe I share the same employer as another member.

Anyhoo, this statement contained within strikes me as bollocks. Your thoughts please.

We recommend the use of this tool, because the evidence shows that age is the greatest risk factor for death from COVID-19; for example, a healthy person aged 60 has a 1% chance of dying and an 80 year old has about a 6% of dying if they contract COVID-19.

No mention of co-morbidities and my understanding is the risk of dying solely of ‘it’ is <1%

147383 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to stefarm, 1, #603 of 2331 🔗

Do many 80 year olds work for your employer?!

147572 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to A. Contrarian, #604 of 2331 🔗

Just me 😉

147434 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to stefarm, 3, #605 of 2331 🔗

a healthy person aged 60 has a 1% chance of dying […] if they contract COVID-19″

I vehemently refute that. A healthy person aged 60 has a 100% chance of dying whether they contract COVID-19 or not. The only question is when they die, and what of. Even without being obtuse about it, their phraseology is idiotic because they don’t say “die OF COVID-19”, so would include people who fall down the stairs, gorge themselves on fugu fish liver, or, like Maurice de Saxe, suffer a fatal apoplexy in bed with nine actresses, etc.

147498 ▶▶▶ Malpractice, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #606 of 2331 🔗

The annual risk of death for the average 60 year old in 1% regardless of Covid or anything else.

147484 ▶▶ stewart, replying to stefarm, #607 of 2331 🔗

Total bollocks. The risk for 60 year olds is well below 1%.

147556 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #608 of 2331 🔗

307 under 60 yrs have died of covid19 (single issue of death on cert) if we believe official stats and there are no genuine errors within that number (unlikely).

So, if I use my laymans squint when I look at 1% I see bollocks.

I wonder how many 60 year olds there are in firstly UK, then the number in the particularly drafty region you’re in.

As you say the risk assessment doing anywhere near a good job ought to be looking at underlying health of people since that far and away outstrips concern based simply on age, and age is a key factor.

147661 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to stefarm, 1, #609 of 2331 🔗

Hi Stefarm, it’s you and I who have the same employer. I’m on leave this week so haven’t heard the latest but from the bit you’ve posted it looks like the usual fear mongering crap. A better interpretation would be ‘99% survival rate in a healthy 60yr old and 94% survival rate for an 80yr old’. There, panic over. Everyone calm down. I wish.

147369 IsabelleG, replying to IsabelleG, 1, #610 of 2331 🔗

I was supposed to have a private medical procedure next week but opted out due to the insanity of having to go through two covid tests and three days of self-imprisonment (which I’d have to confirm in writing!). They clearly don’t want my money…

148627 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to IsabelleG, #611 of 2331 🔗

And Hancock keeps complaining that too many people who do not show symptoms want a test. Maybe he should give one of his Ministerial rules that businesses should not demand a proof of a negative test, but rely on the persons own risk assessment.

147370 NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 9, #612 of 2331 🔗

I’ve been lurking, but it’s time to come out into the open. And I would like to begin by offering absolutely hilarious news. You remember a few days ago Raab (or was it Hancock? Either Laurel or Hardy, anyway) announced with a straight face that Belgium, with one of the worst records in Europe on all covid statistics, was the inspiration behind the new government measures?
Well, Belgium has just abandoned them all. Ripped up its strategy and introduced a completely new – and relatively sensible one.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/132481/belgiums-security-council-introduces-long-term-coronavirus-strategy/

147479 ▶▶ stewart, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #613 of 2331 🔗

I suppose it is a step in the right direction, but you read the list of 6 golden rules and how they continue to micromanage daily life and, don’t know about you, but my heart sinks a bit.

148101 ▶▶ Kate, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #614 of 2331 🔗

Sounds bloody awful and worse than what we have here!

147371 Sarigan, 12, #615 of 2331 🔗

The latest advice from our glorious leaders:

147373 D B, 2, #616 of 2331 🔗

Some good news, my company has encouraged us to continue to return to our offices in the City. I felt sure they’d tell us to stay away, but MD e-mailed last night saying we’ve worked hard to make them “covid-19 secure” (whatever that means I caught a cold I suspect was from the office last week – made a miracle recovery) so we should carry on our return or blended working as normal.

147374 snippet, 2, #617 of 2331 🔗

Open, reasoned and detailed discussion of COVID-19

Summary:
The current UK government response to COVID-19 will result in many more COVID-19 deaths than a policy of targeted suppression in vulnerable groups with support and guidance instead of restrictions. Please can you read Raj Bhopal’s response to the two open letters sent to the UK’s four chief medical officers and the open letters themselves, and support a change in policy to minimise mortality and morbidity in the entire population while minimising the collateral damage of any interventions.

Letter:
Dear [MP],

[personal introduction]

You may be aware of the two open letters sent to the UK’s four chief medical officers by opposing groups of eminent academics and medical professionals regarding how the government should tackle the emerging “second wave” of COVID-19, as reported in the British Medical Journal: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3702 .

Raj Bhopal’s response ( https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3702/rr-2 ) summarises my view and I urge you to read it and both of the open letters. Raj is Emeritus Professor of Public Health at the University of Edinburgh and is a conciliatory voice in this time of heightened tension.

The maths is clear that continuing with a policy of universal suppression will lead to many more deaths than a policy of targeted suppression in vulnerable groups, even when ignoring collateral deaths due to universal suppression, such as missed cancer diagnoses and suicides.

I have attached a simple spreadsheet [to be sent to Toby] that lays out the inevitable consequences of a pathogen such as SARS-CoV-2 that has extremely age-stratified fatality rates. Based on current forecasts of infection fatality rate from the University of Cambridge, universal suppression will eventually lead to about 270,000 fatalities in the UK, whereas targeted suppression will lead to about 64,000 fatalities by the end of the pandemic, which will come much sooner than with universal suppression.

As Raj said in his paper published in July ( https://doi.org/10.1016/j.puhip.2020.100031 ):

“The COVID-19 pandemic has placed us in zugwang, a position in chess where every move is disadvantageous where we must examine every plan, however unpalatable.”

“Hope in natural forces, effective and safe vaccines and curative treatments is important but, given uncertainty, we need to consider other, admittedly difficult, paths. Adults should now reflect on and debate, together with their elected policymakers and scientific advisers, the balance of risks they accept for themselves, versus the risks imposed to wider society, and thus directly inform potential strategies. COVID-19 is having a major impact on children and their voice needs to be heard. Ageism must be avoided whether through shielding or workplace policies that might inadvertently cause harm. Everyone has the right to balance risks and benefits in relation to their own quality of life. This pandemic is complex while the messages being given to the public are overly simplistic. We need global and national leadership, imagination, courage and honest public discussion to shape and influence our future.”

Please can you do what you can to advocate policy of targeted suppression in vulnerable groups with support and guidance instead of restrictions?

It is vital for minimising the harm of COVID-19 that the more resilient members of society, the vast majority, return to normal life as soon as possible.

Kind regards,

[your name]
[your contact number]
[your postal address]

147375 kf99, replying to kf99, 2, #618 of 2331 🔗

Any thoughts on the red/green band thing in the links above? Interesting concept but I think it would need to go further, to apply to businesses/shops/theatres etc, who could say we are open completely normally to “Green” people only

147414 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to kf99, 5, #619 of 2331 🔗

I can’t see the government doing it. But there’s nothing to stop us doing it. Then you can stop and have a chat with greenbander knowing they wont be a retard

148110 ▶▶ Kate, replying to kf99, 2, #620 of 2331 🔗

Looks bloody scary to me. I wouldn’t go anywhere near it.

148660 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to kf99, #621 of 2331 🔗

Just went on the link. Sad to see that we do not know who is behind it. No name or organisation.
I told them they are mad. Might as well be Goebbels behind it.
There is a very good book and film, The Wave, about a Highschool learning about Hitler and finding out how easy it was to get people to conform.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1844090/

147381 B Boru, replying to B Boru, 3, #622 of 2331 🔗

Is this is the implementation of The Fourth Reich.

The Nazi’s never went away, they just moved to South America and continued to be funded by their Western Capitalist backers and also the huge wealth which was accrued from confiscation. Effectively turned them into a global corporation. Chipping away ever since, infiltrating every country around the world. Slowly putting in place all the levers to implement global dominion.

147599 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to B Boru, #623 of 2331 🔗

yep

147777 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to B Boru, 1, #624 of 2331 🔗

Nazism was an ideology that was specific to post war world 1 Germany.Fascism /Technocracy is what we are facing now

149149 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #625 of 2331 🔗

I dunno I think ‘National Socialism’ is pretty apt. It’s basically each country’s national vision of technocratic communism. Without the taking over the world part. Yet. (If you believe the tinfoils that has already happened and is coming to fruition)

147382 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 16, #626 of 2331 🔗

The news yesterday from Belgium has given me some hope. They are lifting some of the restrictions in spite of an increase in positive tests. This is a country which had one of the worst death rates in Europe. Why are they doing this?
They are going to use hospitalisations as a marker to inform policy rather than just positive tests, because they realise that hospitalisations and deaths are the only data that counts. They realise that they are going to have to live with this virus and that they cannot fool their people any longer..
Are you watching Boris?

147402 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Margaret, 7, #627 of 2331 🔗

they overcounted deaths. they are probably the same as the rest of use (UK, sweden, france, italy etc)

they have seen no increase in deaths so probably think that PCR is good for information gathering but not good for setting catastrophic lockdown policies. something heneghan has been saying for ages and was original govt policy (stop nhs being overwhelmed for 3 weeks)

147407 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Margaret, 3, #628 of 2331 🔗

The news that they have abandoned the PCR test is particularly encouraging as without those ‘case numbers’ [sic] there really is nothing much to keep the panic going

147413 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Margaret, 2, #629 of 2331 🔗

Best news of the day so far! Thanks for the heads up Margaret. Arnie.

147448 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Margaret, #630 of 2331 🔗

Can you provide a link, source?

147508 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Margaret, 1, #632 of 2331 🔗

This, but it is less than clear on testing

https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/132600/covid-19-universities-ask-students-not-to-follow-new-relaxed-rules/

Or

https://twitter.com/C1aranMurray/status/1308767945624035328

comment image
Ciarán Murray
@C1aranMurray
A victory for PCR truthers? Belgium just announced that PCR tests will no longer be relied upon as a guage of the prevalence of the virus, hospitalisations will. Despite (apparent) rising cases, masks no longer mandated outdoors.

147384 Tim Bidie, 7, #633 of 2331 🔗

The Bumble Bee Beginners Guide To Mental Translation: ONS (Official National Secrets) Publications

Chapter 73

ONS secret: ‘In August 2020, there were 34,750 deaths registered in England, 2,060 deaths fewer than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) for August’

Your mentals: Whole world completely stuffed!

ONS secret: The coronavirus (COVID-19) did not feature in the top ten leading causes of death in August 2020, in England or Wales.

Your mentals: OMG! The Covid must have been higher than first on the list!

ONS secret: In England, August 2020, COVID-19 was the 24th most common cause of death

Your mentals: Put bulk pack toilet paper top of shopping list!

ONS secret: When considering deaths registered in 2020 to date (1 January to 31 August) in England, the age-standardised mortality rate for deaths registered in 2020 was significantly higher than the mortality rate in each year back to 2009.

Your mentals: All the youngsters have been dying except for this year. They are so selfish, never think of their grandparents!!

ONS secret: Of the 34,750 deaths registered in August 2020 in England, 1.4% (482 deaths) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19)

Your mentals: 482% just died of the covid….and the rest have got long covid! Buy more toilet paper!

ONS secret: Of the 46,736 deaths with an underlying cause of COVID-19, 3,763 (8.1%) were classified as “suspected” COVID-19………Of the 50,335 deaths that occurred in March to June 2020 involving COVID-19 in England and Wales, 45,859 (91.1%) had at least one pre-existing condition, while 4,476 (8.9%) had none…..

Your mentals: 91.1% of the country are dead. That’s why there’s no-one in the shops!

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/august2020

147388 JohnMac, 2, #634 of 2331 🔗

“Do not lose heart. Do not give up. Keep the Faith”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6lND4CZlXc

I needed this, and I am sure others will need it too.

147391 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 18, #635 of 2331 🔗

Yesterday I raised the idea of starting a Lockdown Sceptics leafleting campaign (rather than just being keyboard warriors). Toby said ‘not a bad idea’ but doesn’t have time get involved.

So for anyone who wants to have a go the A5 leaflet I’ve designed (I’m not a graphic designer) is shown here (low res). I’ve slightly revised it from yesterday

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-bN6Q_x0VDXrMmYyV5VjfVs9Lmc5HLHF/view

A high resolution A5 pdf to download is here (with 3mm bleed all round)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OHHkWPL7ga3f3CWmPJhtDvAE1EElHUH-/view

and most decent online printers should be able to print it for you.

I’ve ordered 500 for about £27.00 delivered from http://www.solopress.com
I know nothing about them or even if they are any good but they should be here tomorrow for me to start leafleting my part of south Wales.

If you think it’s a good idea give it a like and download and get some out there yourself. If you are a real graphic designer don’t laugh too much and perhaps help out with some copy yourself to help us get the message out.

It’s just my opinion that we can all actively do something if we wish

147397 ▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Schrodinger, #636 of 2331 🔗

That’s very good.

147408 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #637 of 2331 🔗

It’s worth checking on eBay for leaflet printers. We’ve had 1000s printed, high quality, for not a lot of money and a quick turnaround. Stickers might also be a good idea

147410 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #638 of 2331 🔗

Leaflets do work. As Vernon Coleman said, political parties do it because it does work, He has plenty of information on his website in this regard also.

I have been putting flyers around everywhere I go. I have found most small business owners are receptive, had a couple of defensive ones but hey ho…Guerilla if required. stick em in the papers racks in shops between copies, bus stops and train stations are also a good place. get out the pasting bucket n brush n don your best ninja outfit! 😉

I will put up some links to the ones I have been putting out as well

147422 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to B Boru, 2, #639 of 2331 🔗

Seconded.

As an afterthought – if anyone is going to do a leaflet drop, worth obtaining 2/3/4 leaflets and delivering them all together ?

147472 ▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to JohnB, #640 of 2331 🔗

I wouldn’t overdo it as it would just cause some to not bother reading and throw in bin. I would limit to 3 personally

147582 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to B Boru, #641 of 2331 🔗

Fair enuf, 3 it is. 🙂

147533 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #642 of 2331 🔗

Masks Face Facts.

147416 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, #643 of 2331 🔗

Just to add that the pdf has a 3mm bleed all round that most commercial printers require.

147427 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #644 of 2331 🔗

Excellent, most people are just not reading or watching the news now

147428 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Schrodinger, #645 of 2331 🔗

My company blocks personal web storage sites. Could you stick the jpg on here maybe ? 🙂

147437 ▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to JohnB, #646 of 2331 🔗

Email me jhechard(at)yahoo(dot)co(dot)uk and I’ll send a high res pdf

148080 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Schrodinger, #647 of 2331 🔗

Hi Farfrae – email bounced. (Yes I did use an @ and two .s 🙂 ).

148177 ▶▶▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to JohnB, #648 of 2331 🔗

Oops sorry (henchard as in the Mayor of Casterbridge)

jhenchard(at)yahoo(dot)co(dot)uk

147803 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Schrodinger, #649 of 2331 🔗

That’s very well done,I’m downloading it to print some off and distribute around here.

147399 Roadrash, replying to Roadrash, 6, #650 of 2331 🔗

https://twitter.com/LeahButlerSmith/status/1308882452732149761?s=20

the reality for many of our elderly today. But of course, it’s all for their own safety.

147456 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Roadrash, 4, #651 of 2331 🔗

Tried to watch this last night – couldn’t.

The next person to harass me about mask wearing will be shocked by the strength of my response.

147461 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 1, #652 of 2331 🔗

Same here. But every blasted MP who has colluded in this should be forced to watch.

147485 ▶▶▶▶ Roadrash, replying to kh1485, 1, #653 of 2331 🔗

I know please retweet it or resend the link if you’re on any other platforms, it’s totally heart breaking but this must be happening to thousands of elderly and their families. People need to know the reality of what care home restrictions actually mean.

147510 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Roadrash, 1, #654 of 2331 🔗

Posted yesterday as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5HmtEMRlpA&feature=youtu.be

Warning – very upsetting.

147417 Albie, 4, #655 of 2331 🔗

I’ve just heard a government/NHS ad for Stoptober in which they say you should quit smoking as it “stops you breathing”. They’re trolling us now.

147418 George Marchaux, replying to George Marchaux, 3, #656 of 2331 🔗

How do people feel the vote on Wednesday will go?

I believe it to be a crucial acid test for how Parliament as a whole values their role going into the future. Will they renew the act and relegate themselves to 6 more months of irrelevance?

I would hope that the opposition would vote down the renewal, surely they want more of an opportunity to ‘oppose,’ whether that be for tighter restrictions or not. We also have a growing backbench rebellion.

The repeal of the act, while not necessarily guaranteeing fewer restrictions, at least makes it harder for the Government to pass new ridiculous laws.

If they act is renewed, well I fear for parliamentary democracy in the future.

147423 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to George Marchaux, 1, #657 of 2331 🔗

Me too, you would think that Parliament would want a say, now that the ’emergency’ has passed

147447 ▶▶▶ George Marchaux, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #658 of 2331 🔗

I guess the question is how many MPs have been hoodwinked by the Governments entirely manufactured ’emergency’ we are seeing now. Can we trust them to have a grasp on false positives etc, already Boris is playing up the Protect The NHS and war time rhetoric, entirely designed to cause fear and panic, not only among the population, but also the house.

At the very least, this bill needs amending to allow for a renewal vote every 3 months MAX.

I refuse to hold out any hope, Parliament, by and large have excused themselves of their responsibilities. Where is Gina Miller when you need her?? The champion of Parliamentary Sovereignty…

147452 ▶▶▶▶ George Marchaux, replying to George Marchaux, 1, #659 of 2331 🔗

Sorry to keep badgering but https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/313310 – please sign!

147455 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to George Marchaux, 1, #660 of 2331 🔗

Signed.

147457 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ George Marchaux, replying to kh1485, 1, #661 of 2331 🔗

Thank you sir!

147471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to George Marchaux, 1, #662 of 2331 🔗

I think Kim self-identifies as a woman … 🙂

147473 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, #663 of 2331 🔗

I wondered how long it would take you …

147495 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ George Marchaux, replying to kh1485, 1, #664 of 2331 🔗

My apologies Kim!

147476 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to George Marchaux, 5, #665 of 2331 🔗

My MP has put on his website, that he is now having face to face ‘surgeries’ again, with or without a mask!

147618 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to George Marchaux, #666 of 2331 🔗

If it stays, it needs to be weekly. Keep their feet to the fire.

147426 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to George Marchaux, 1, #667 of 2331 🔗

The Brady amendment allowing vote on statutory instruments has been ruled out by the Speaker, apparently it would have no legal force, so either they renew the act as it stands or they do not…

147749 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to George Marchaux, #668 of 2331 🔗

A few Tories will rebel but the act will be passed with labour/SNP votes.
The day they buried democracy

147788 ▶▶▶ George Marchaux, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #669 of 2331 🔗

I fear you are correct. in for the long haul you are in the UK. Guernsey is in a state of effective external lockdown, mandatory quarantine for everyone travelling to the island. Until the British Gov changes its narrative, nothing will change, the states of Guernsey are reluctant to contradict the official message.

148156 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to George Marchaux, 1, #670 of 2331 🔗

If it gets renewed I’m leaving the country. Adios.
I mean. I may well have done anyway due to impending economic armageddon, but…. I’ll be leaving ASAP. A battered and beleaguered country without democracy is a country with no future. (Except maybe civil war…..)

148254 ▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Farinances, #671 of 2331 🔗

Good plan, but where to?

149134 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to dickyboy, #672 of 2331 🔗

This is the dilemma. Probably somewhere I have friends and speak the language and isn’t still gripped in a complete coronapanic. Greece or Italy probably. Greece was never really gripped. Italy is just coming to terms and shrugging it off, sounds like.

147420 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #673 of 2331 🔗

Its depressing how sheeplike we still are. The past war efforts by the people, YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU, DIG FOR VICTORY etc and people did it, the mentality has never changed. Wear a muzzle FOR YOUR COUNTRY, GET VACCINATED (to save your country) Its pathetic, how manipulated we still are. Now the young are clamouring to get an app for Covid, Why?? The end game is the Vaccination where the money is, everything has always been following the money. The elite get us to make their money and we do it. We get the Eton mess lot in to run the show, who are the useful idiots, told they are the next leaders, whatever level of intelligence. The NGO’s have taken over the government and it doesnt even look as if they realise it.

147441 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Dan Clarke, #674 of 2331 🔗

Cuo Bono (who benefits)? Is always the question to ask.

147463 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kev, 1, #675 of 2331 🔗

“They say we’re young, and we don’t know …”.

<<gets coat>>

147504 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, #676 of 2331 🔗

🙂

147529 ▶▶▶ Graham, replying to Kev, 3, #677 of 2331 🔗

Cui bono . Dative. Do try to keep up 😉

147562 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Graham, 1, #678 of 2331 🔗

It’s all Greek to me.

147444 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #679 of 2331 🔗

I see it less as conspiracy and more as opportunism. We’ve seen how financial interests and virtue signallers latch on to real or perceived “crises” . We’ve lived through the bogus millennium bug which was a lovely money spinner for lots of IT companies.

147468 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #680 of 2331 🔗

Or, the millennium bug was averted by lots if IT work.

How sure are you, OKUK ?

147741 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, 3, #681 of 2331 🔗

If it wasn’t a conspiracy at the beginning it definitely is now.Take your pick from any number of groups who have rushed in to exploit the crisis and so conspire to prevent any return to normality

148142 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #682 of 2331 🔗

This I’m on board with. All of these big globalist vested interests have taken advantage by taking China’s lead. We all know Bill Gates and Co. have been sitting on their “pandemic response” for years, so now here they go, cranking it out. It’s kinda like the billionaire version of the survivalist in a bunker. Bill’s (and Valance’s, and Fauci’s, and Ferguson’s, and anyone else’s whose livelihood comes from obsessing about disaster diseases) long yearned for opportunity to swing into action and ‘save the world’ (by inadvertently killing
everybody) has arrived…..

Layer massive government incompetence on top of that- nobody questions these people- and we are where we are.

147425 Strange Days, replying to Strange Days, 13, #683 of 2331 🔗

What an utter [insert expletive of choice x10] he is

EXCLUSIVE: In the week Boris told a battered Britain it was in for another six months of Covid winter misery, his partner Carrie Symonds enjoys five-star Italian holiday at £600-a-night Lake Como hotel with son Wilfred and three friends
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8763869/Carrie-Symonds-enjoys-five-star-Italian-holiday-Rishi-Sunak-unveils-urgent-measures-save-jobs.html

147438 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Strange Days, 3, #684 of 2331 🔗

I thought he was skint. Just getting by on £150k a year … Where’s my teeny tiny violin.

147614 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to kh1485, 3, #685 of 2331 🔗

In which case the question is who is paying for it?

147464 ▶▶ Will, replying to Strange Days, 2, #686 of 2331 🔗

TBF, much as I loathe her “fluffy bunny wunny” influence, I don’t think she should be held accountable for the actions of her twat of a partner, especially as he appears to be up to his old tricks again. Could hypersexuality be a symptom of a bi polar disorder?

147481 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Will, 4, #687 of 2331 🔗

But have you seen who she works for?
I’m suspicious that she, like Meghan Markle, is a ‘plant’…

147496 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 1, #688 of 2331 🔗

Agree Carrie – see my post – the conclusion I came to and wrote about a few months ago having watched the brilliant ‘Day of the Jackal’ on TV. Cummings is the other ‘plant’.

147539 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #689 of 2331 🔗

Plant or handler ?

MM possibly a beard, though that’s unlikely for Johnson.

147609 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, #690 of 2331 🔗

Agree on MM, but not Ms Carrie

147512 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Carrie, #691 of 2331 🔗

NGO’s?

147470 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Strange Days, 2, #692 of 2331 🔗

I don’t think they are still together. Her job is done. I am also suspicious about the rebuttal from Downing Street about his trip to see his Russian mate who owns the Evening Standard – the priest did not say ‘both’ parents were at Wilfred’s christening from what I read!

147593 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Strange Days, 1, #693 of 2331 🔗

I enjoy going out for lunch and/or a coffee. Now, if as appears to be the case, I must mask up until I sit down at the table, no more outings for me. What will be the next step? Masks all the time?

148678 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to petgor, #694 of 2331 🔗

I have had 2 people in two days ask me how are they supposed to drink their coffee with a mask on if we insist they wear one. HAHA.

147602 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Strange Days, 4, #695 of 2331 🔗

Yet again another one rule for me, another one for thee.

This is becoming like pre-1789 France

147431 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 14, #696 of 2331 🔗

Can we all agree the the Great British Public’s fear is not of the effects of a virus? Their fear is further lockdowns and punishments from Boris et al due to non-compliance with the rules/laws rolled out to protect people from a virus.

That’s why they wear the masks. Not fear over a virus that part of their brain knows, based on experience and data, is nowhere near deadly as the initial fear campaign claimed.

It’s why they social distance.

Deep down they know this is all bollocks, but they’re terrified of further “restrictions” but they’re confusing that fear with fear of the virus. And they don’t want to admit it to themselves.

147451 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark H, 4, #697 of 2331 🔗

It’s hard to admit when you’re wrong. I’m not sure if it’s harder to admit it to other people, or to yourself.

147462 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark H, 5, #698 of 2331 🔗

Why can’t any of our useless MPS challenge the government on the mask madness. As I understand it, the government changed its mind because if the WHO study which has now been totally discredited. So what is the basis for claiming masks are efficacious? There is none. But they might well be making people more susceptible to serious infection by Covid and other viruses.

147579 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to OKUK, 3, #699 of 2331 🔗

Someone on this site commented recently on how our masters and mistresses in parliament (most of them were remainers of course), were telling us how much economic damage would be caused to the UK if we left the EU. Not a peep out of them on the economic damage being caused by this so-called pandemic.

My thanks once more to Toby Young, Julia Julia Hartley-Brewer and Mike Graham (the latter from Talk Radio), for helping g keep me sane and not believing that I am the one who is out of step with reality.

147465 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark H, 1, #700 of 2331 🔗

I can’t agree – there are a range of motivations out there, but Fear is definitely one.

147877 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to RickH, 1, #701 of 2331 🔗

I used the word “fear” 6 times in my post. They’re motivated by fear. They believe they fear the virus. But in reality they fear being punished by the government for not doing what they’re told.

147474 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Mark H, #702 of 2331 🔗

I don’t know. A lot of people are genuinely frightened out of their wits.

147587 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Liam, 1, #703 of 2331 🔗

Governments are supposed to avoid panicking their populations. However, with the help of a mostly submissive media and opposition , this government has decided to take a different course.

And if Mr Johnson is relying on the polls to tell what is acceptable to the public he should bear in mind the fact that the polls have rarely if ever, been right.

147879 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Liam, #704 of 2331 🔗

Yes, my argument is they’re afraid of more restrictions.

147497 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Mark H, 9, #705 of 2331 🔗

Indeed – this is why I find it very revealing that during Johnson’s address on Tuesday, he said that further restrictions would be brought in based on people’s behaviour, not the progression of the virus. Very threatening.

147635 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Mark H, 1, #706 of 2331 🔗

Can we all agree the the Great British Public’s fear is not of the effects of a virus?

No. I think the majority of the public genuinely fear the virus. Most of them have no idea of the relative risk.

147730 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, #707 of 2331 🔗

That’s the first bit of sense I’ve seen from you,although I’d say it is a large minority who are afraid due to the government/MSM fear porn,not the majority

147667 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Mark H, 2, #708 of 2331 🔗

I made this very point in my letter to Richard Drax. The fear is no longer of the virus. It’s of the government.

148133 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Now More Than Ever, #709 of 2331 🔗

I found Boris very threatening yesterday.

148117 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark H, #710 of 2331 🔗

Yep. Bang on.

The amazement (and relief) on people’s faces as you ignore the rules is surreal. Otherworldly.

The other day I did my usual “I’m not scared of you!” To a man who was waiting for me to pass him on the pavement and he could barely conceal his delight. I say that because I could tell he was trying to. Like his face erupted into a pleasantly surprised shocked expression for a split second and he smiled. Then quickly put it right- back to frowning and ‘respecting boundaries’ as the person behind me approached. You can see the mental processes happening, lightning quick, then being suppressed again equally as quickly.

147436 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #711 of 2331 🔗

At Morrison this morning queuing behind a man who used the outside sanitising station. He turned to me saying something through his mask. Told him that it does not make sense, he just touched the handle of the trolley, then sanitised his hands and then touched at the same spot again. Realising his ‘mistake’ he then dispensed more onto his hands and spread it over the trolley handles and looked pleased with himself. You can’t make this stuff up.

147459 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 4, #712 of 2331 🔗

Meanwhile, Simon Dolan has just landed in Sweden: https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1309050466433748993

147453 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 2, #713 of 2331 🔗

Just heard CineWorld had a loss of £1.3B this year compared to pretax profit from last year of over £110M

147467 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to mhcp, 4, #714 of 2331 🔗

Sorry – Bozo doesn’t give a toss.

147753 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mhcp, #715 of 2331 🔗

Not surprised but all too predictable. Johnson, Wancock and the Two Ronnies don’t care sadly.

147460 RickH, replying to RickH, 8, #716 of 2331 🔗

I notice the following in ‘Round-Up’ :

Revealed: Sir Patrick Vallance has £600,000 shareholding in firm contracted to develop vaccines ” – Shshshsh. Don’t tell the conspiracy theorists”

‘Follow the money’ isn’t really a ‘conspiracy theory’, is it? It’s one of the oldest political drivers known to man.

I’ve been looking for any other mention of this story, which needs to be linked to Tom Jefferson’s BMJ article about the ‘revolving door’ from 2017.

The ‘fearless’ Groan seems blissfully oblivious. Has anyone else seen mention of what is a highly significant link in the chain of determining ‘Cui bono?’

148103 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 1, #717 of 2331 🔗

Exactly. I get called a conspiracy theorist all the time for simply following the money, every time. It’s he only thing for any critical thinker to do these days sadly. The real conspiracy theorists (love you guys)think I don’t think critically enough lol

147505 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tom Blackburn, #719 of 2331 🔗

All so true

147530 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #720 of 2331 🔗

Yeadon is a star.

147619 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to JohnB, -4, #721 of 2331 🔗

Yeadon’s obsession with False Positives is a bit of a red herring in that it doesn’t explain the trend in cases.

147787 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 2, #722 of 2331 🔗

What is the trend in cases? How are you defining case?

148089 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mayo, #723 of 2331 🔗

Mayo with everything …

148093 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mayo, 1, #724 of 2331 🔗

The trend in cases is explained in four words REGARDLESS OF false positive rate:

Huge. Increase. In. Testing.
(In non clinical settings of HEALTHY people, picking up fragments after recovery, altho how you recover from a virus you never knew you had is beyond me)

148736 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mayo, 1, #725 of 2331 🔗

To be fair, Mayo has a point here. I for one don’t understand what is going on with the test +ves, and I’ve read Dr Yeadon’s paper. It seems likely that ‘the trend in cases’ has some misleading or fraudulent cause, but I don’t yet know what it is.

147506 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -11, #726 of 2331 🔗

Some worrying news from Sweden. A small rise in cases in Stockholm in the last few days appears to be causing chief epidemiologist Dr Anders Tegnell to shift to embracing lockdowns and masks as tools for handling the virus.

The biggest worry in this story is that the increase in cases is in Stockholm. This, remember, is the city which was supposedly closest to herd immunity.

If Stockholm is seeing a sharp uptick in cases then there’s little hope that herd immunity can be achieved with low (<20%) levels of infection.

 The HI route of exit is looking increasingly like a non-starter

147535 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mayo, 8, #727 of 2331 🔗

It almost seems like you want this to get worse.

Carrie may be able to expand or correct but from my Swedish friends, people are can be reclusive and followed requests to shield if vunerable. Perhaps with numbers so low, some of those people have ventured out again causing a small spike in positive tests (not cases).

You think HI is a non starter from that? A spike in +ve tests that have not been reflected in hospitisation, ICU or death (before you say it, yes I know there is a lag). It may do but I doubt there will be anything significant.

147540 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #728 of 2331 🔗

Furthermore the reports stated on the 23rd:

About 1,200 new cases and five deaths have been reported in the country since last Friday – a jump from the previous weeks’ average of 200 cases per day.

So since Friday 240 a day compared to 200 a day previously.

They have been fluctuating for sometime now and it does not look too alarming:

147544 ▶▶▶ Tommo, replying to Sarigan, 2, #729 of 2331 🔗

I doubt there will be anything significant.” – This is the key point. In lots of places in Europe “cases” are surging, and small rises in hospitalisations and death (but of course still not clear whether this is “with” COVID or “because” of COVID). But the actual impact on the health care system is very small and manageable, therefore we do not have a healthcare emergency!

147613 ▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tommo, -6, #730 of 2331 🔗

We do not have a healthcare emergency – YET.

We might not have one but the trend in cases (and hospital admissions) is worrying.

While, the Vallance & Whitty presentation was misleading, they did make the key point that a 4 or 5 doublings can quickly create a problem.

147620 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 5, #731 of 2331 🔗

We didn’t have a healthcare emergency the “first” time round either.

147627 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Julian, #732 of 2331 🔗

The government will say that was because of the lockdown.

147886 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, #733 of 2331 🔗

The government and their advisors are liars.

147628 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tommo, replying to Julian, 2, #734 of 2331 🔗

Yes, this is certainly true of most of the UK. My cousin works in an ICU in London and it did get very busy in March – and they were struggling with staff shortages too. But this didn’t happen in most parts in UK. Where I live, forget about the 2nd wave. We are still waiting for the 1st wave!

147683 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mayo, 2, #735 of 2331 🔗

Anyone that can count could work that out. I believe it won’t happen and that won’t be due to any NPIs.

You seem to worry too much. This trend is worrying, that trend is worrying. If they don’t happen, will that be due to the measures in place and the fantastic work of Ferguson or will it be due to it never happening before with any Coronavirus epidemic or pandemic ever? I will hold my hand up and say I was wrong if there is concrete evidence of exponential growth in deaths due from Covid (not with). Will you, if your doom-mongering predictions do not come to light?

147802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, #736 of 2331 🔗

4 or 5 doublings could only be a possible problem if you have 4 or 5 consecutive doublings, which no country in the world has.

148084 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mayo, #737 of 2331 🔗

Oh Lord. WHY ARE YOU HERE?

Don’t you have a lunchbreak or something, 77?

147537 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 2, #738 of 2331 🔗

Bit early to say it’s a non-starter. The Swedes always said that final judgement needed at least a year. Anyway, viruses need to be lived with. You eventually get to HI, unless it mutates like flu does. It’s the only route of exit. You may use a vaccine to help you. But it’s the only “exit”. The more important route of exit is to exit from the madness.

I suspect what you mean is that they may not have reached HI yet, which may be true. But it seems likely they are close, otherwise how would you explain the drop in cases in Sweden since the peak? Seasonal? Maybe.

Anyway, as stated before, the virus doesn’t have an exceptional effect that justifies measures taken.

147538 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 1, #739 of 2331 🔗

That’s why they are trying to rush the vaccination program before it fizzles out and they have no more ammunition

147596 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Julian, -4, #740 of 2331 🔗

Bit early to say it’s a non-starter. The Swedes always said that final judgement needed at least a year.

That doesn’t seem to have stopped LS readers claiming a “Swedish victory” 3 months ago.

That aside, the judgement in a year or so is on the overall strategy. However, early herd immunity was a key element of that strategy.

It’s not just Tegnell though. Professors Gupta, Gomes among others have all argued that the HI threshold is between 10% and 20%. This is now looking increasingly unlikely.

This issue is at the core of my main complaint about this site. It’s been far too prepared to accept these HI estimates without any real evidence and with a total absence of scrutiny.

147611 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, 3, #741 of 2331 🔗

If you don’t like this site, why are you here?

147630 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, #742 of 2331 🔗

Well a fair few countries look like they are close to HI, and if they are not then there have to be other explanations for the drops in cases and deaths. Maybe seasonality, maybe most of the most vulnerable have already been hit, maybe the virus has become less dangerous.

It’s certainly easier to argue the sceptic case when the virus seems to have died away largely in many countries, but as I have said before it is not fundamental to the case.

147652 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #743 of 2331 🔗

I think Sweden has won some battles – modellers may come up with various predictions, and like fortune tellers – one of them may guess it right.
Only time will tell if Sweden wins the war – but my moneys on Sweden…

147719 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mayo, 3, #744 of 2331 🔗

The only way out of this is just to go back to normality.You cant suppress a virus without making human life unsustainable.It is not a very serious threat and the continuing hysteria is just going to cause economic Armageddon,which will have a very real impact in lives

147794 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, 1, #745 of 2331 🔗

Herd immunity refers to a situation when asymptomatic disease transmission is the norm, and the pathogen in question is no longer clinically symptomatic. It doesn’t mean that the virus itself has been eradicated.
10-20% seropositivity does not include the estimated further 40% Covid-specific T-cell acquired immunity.
Nor the non-Covid specific T-cell immunity acquired from exposure to other past coronaviruses, including the common cold. T-cell mediated immunity exists alright; it’s just that testing for T-cell-mediated immunity is more complex than testing for antibodies, and so the research is less mature.
T-cell immunity tends to be long-lasting. Antibodies tend not to be.
10-20% antibody seropositivity equates to 80-99% collective immunity. a fully realistic estimate.
Sweden’s uptick in ‘positives’ means nothing if most are false positives and the rest of the positives just indicate background asymptomatic spread. And widespread asymptomatic transmission is a good thing.
This reported uptick is a combination of increased testing and some asyptomatic to asymptomatic transmission of low viral load.
I think virtually nobody is now dying of Sars-CoV-2 alone.

The Karolinska Institutet is doing considerable research on T-cell immunity.

https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown

147867 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #746 of 2331 🔗

Herd immunity refers to a situation when asymptomatic disease transmission is the norm, and the pathogen in question is no longer clinically symptomatic. It doesn’t mean that the virus itself has been eradicated.

No, that’s not the definition. Herd immunity is when a sufficiently large proportion of the population have immunity (for what ever reason) that the virus is unable to spread, because each infected person infects on average less than one more person.

Sweden’s uptick in ‘positives’ means nothing if most are false positives and the rest of the positives just indicate background asymptomatic spread.

Up to a point. If the proportion of positive tests results is increasing, it indicates an increase in the number of true positives. The extent and rate of that increase cannot be ascertained without further knowledge, such as the false positive test rate, or possibly some change in the testing regime.

148120 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #747 of 2331 🔗

“No, that’s not the definition. Herd immunity is when a sufficiently large proportion of the population have immunity (for what ever reason) that the virus is unable to spread, because each infected person infects on average less than one more person.”

I think that is at least arguable, and yours is an overly mechanistic definition, imo.
Because a population individually and collectively acquires immunity, it does not mean the virus totally absents itself. Many viruses retain a background endemic or semi-endemic presence. Completely asymptomatic undiagnosed transmission can continue.
When the Spanish conquistadores ‘visited’ the Americas they exported many diseases to the native Americans, who did not have the collective or herd immunity.
(Which is why NZ’s policies are beyond stupidity.)

Sweden could be said to have acquired herd immunity by most definitions, but what would happen if Swedes started visiting NZ, where this is a juicy susceptible population?
Sweden could actually be seen as a ‘carrier’ population.
As to what actually constitutes herd immunity, I think you will find several definitions. It’s an interesting debate however. What happened with SARS-1 for example? Did it literally die out? If so, why?
Or did it simply lose all of its virulence, but remain in existence.
I suspect if a part of its genetic code was isolated and then a 40 cycle PCR test was employed, it would be found everywhere.

148583 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #748 of 2331 🔗

I think that is at least arguable, and yours is an overly mechanistic definition

It’s about defining herd immunity in terms of the way the virus spreads within the population, which is what we’re interested in, rather than details about symptoms and so on which are specific to this particular disease.

Because a population individually and collectively acquires immunity, it does not mean the virus totally absents itself.

Agreed. Unable to spread does not imply absent. At the point when herd immunity has just been reached, for example, the virus will still be present and still spreading, it’s just that the spread will be diminishing rather than increasing.

Indeed, changes in people’s behaviour, by mingling more often, may raise the threshold level for herd immunity above what has been achieved and allow the virus to increase its spread again.

Whether continued transmission is largely or wholly asymptomatic is, I submit, not relevant to this particular discussion. If the virus is spreading, it is spreading.

I don’t know what happened to SARS-Cov-1. It may have died out in the human population but still be present in some animal population, for example. I believe this is the status of the Black Death.

did it simply lose all of its virulence, but remain in existence

It is often postulated that common viruses like flu mutate into less virulent forms, because the more virulent forms kill or incapacitate their hosts too quickly to spread, so that there’s a selective pressure towards more benign forms.

That may have happened to SARS-Cov-1 and whether or not it has, it may yet happen to SARS-Cov-2. but I gather there’s currently no evidence of major mutations that might potentially decrease its virulence. Indeed D614G was thought at one point to have actually increased its virulence.

148825 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #749 of 2331 🔗

It’s about defining herd immunity in terms of the way the virus spreads within the population, which is what we’re interested in, rather than details about symptoms and so on which are specific to this particular disease.

Further discussing out of curiosity, rather than being argumentative: If the virus becomes less and less virulent, then we really should be interested in that.
It’s central to the issue. Any medical, governmental or societal response should be informed by this. And my hypothesis is that it is indeed becoming much less virulent. We simply do not hear about the previously characteristic cytokine storm and associated ARD any more.
Why is that, if it is still happening? ‘Deadly disease’ is no longer an apt description, if it ever was.
Something appears to have reduced intra-host viral replication (not to be confused with inter-host transmissibility).

Indeed, changes in people’s behaviour, by mingling more often, may raise the threshold level for herd immunity above what has been achieved and allow the virus to increase its spread again .

Mingling more often is just as likely to do the opposite and help maintain or reduce the threshold, allowing for the virus to further attenuate into a minimally symptomatic form.
The active trade-off between virulence and transmissibility is a widespread pheomenon that virologists have long been aware of.

Whether continued transmission is largely or wholly asymptomatic is, I submit, not relevant to this particular discussion. If the virus is spreading, it is spreading.

Surely that issue is central to the whole debate. If the virus is naturally attenuating to the point where it becomes minimally symptomatic, then you no longer have an epidemic. And it becomes a false epidemic.
And if it genuinely becomes entirely asymptomatic, then if it spreads, it spreads without consequence to the host. Which is relevant to all the discussion. It may in fact be exactly what is happening here.

There is a hypothesis that SARS-CoV-1 did indeed lose its viral replication ability due to deletion of the whole ORF-8 reading frame and specifically the 382-nucleotide deletion (∆382). And as Ivor told us, the short-lived efforts to produce a vaccine were abandoned, probably because the pathogenicity had disappeared, and the developers couldn’t keep up with the genomic changes.

My hypothesis is that we have a similar scenario happening here:-
The original highly pathogenic wild-type virus is disappearing within just a few transmission cycles, possibly due to selective deletion of ORF-8.

And the evidence is emerging:-

“Between Jan 22 and March 21, 2020, 278 patients with PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection were screened for the ∆382 deletion and 131 were enrolled onto the study, of whom 92 (70%) were infected with the wild-type virus, ten (8%) had a mix of wild-type and ∆382-variant viruses, and 29 (22%) had only the ∆382 variant. Development of hypoxia requiring supplemental oxygen was less frequent in the ∆382 variant group (0 [0%] of 29 patients) than in the wild-type only group (26 [28%] of 92; absolute difference 28% [95% CI 14–28]) . After adjusting for age and presence of comorbidities, infection with the ∆382 variant only was associated with lower odds of developing hypoxia requiring supplemental oxygen (adjusted odds ratio 0·07 [95% CI 0·00–0·48]) compared with infection with wild-type virus only.
Interpretation The ∆382 variant of SARS-CoV-2 seems to be associated with a milder infection . The observed clinical effects of deletions in ORF8 could have implications for the development of treatments and vaccines.”

This is not what those who wish to vaccinate us all particularly want to hear…

148899 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Kevin 2, #750 of 2331 🔗
148999 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #751 of 2331 🔗

If the virus becomes less and less virulent, then we really should be interested in that.

Of course, and if the way the virus spreads, due to some change in the virus itself, that will be reflected in the herd immunity threshold, just as a change in the way it spreads due to the way people behave will also be reflected.

Mingling more often is just as likely to do the opposite and help maintain or reduce the threshold

Either way, it is consistent with my point, that the herd immunity threshold is a function of the way people behave.

If the virus is naturally attenuating to the point where it becomes minimally symptomatic, then you no longer have an epidemic.

If it is naturally attenuating. That’s a hypothesis that can only be tested with evidence — and it is testable, at least in principle. Are you suggesting that there’s direct evidence for that? What processes would you see as causing natural attenuation, other than genetic mutation?

As to the ∆382 variant, the reference you cite goes on to discuss why it has actually died out in some countries.

149269 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #752 of 2331 🔗

Just a quick response before beddy-byes and these comments become yesterday’s.
Yes. The statistical evidence is already there for me, most obviously in Sweden.
Swedish deaths topped 3000 on 7th May. Then topped 4000 on 25th May.
Then topped 5000 on 17th June. Very steep linear increase (but not exponential). 3 months later , the total remains below 6000. In the last month there have been approximately 50 deaths. And reports of Stockholm hospitals not seeing a Covid patient in months.
How can you explain the rapid and sustained deceleration in mortality? In the last few weeks at 1 or 2 daily deaths, you are talking about residual background incidence and nothing more. One should assume that most of these daily single deaths will be of elderly individuals with one or more co-morbidities. And their Covid ‘positivity’ may not be real anyway.
All of this in a context of no masks and no lockdowns.

Possible contributory factors:-

The acutely vulnerable have died off.

Care homes (72% of fatalities) have introduced effective protective measures.

HIT reached. Probably by mid-June.

The problem with this, is that if the virus had retained all its virulence, then we would have expected Stockholm and Gothenburg deaths to decline first, with a wave of further mortality spreading out to the more provincial and rural parts of the country over time. It was what I had been anticipating. This was largely absent, suggesting something else was happening. Which I believe has been loss of virulence. The transmission did obviously spread from the few large cities, but without attendant mortality. Transmission potential itself has not diminished and may have increased as virulence wanes. (Karolinska T-cell prevalence research supports this.)

A transactional interaction in the in vivo micro-environment between the human immune system and the virus leading to an evolution from the original wildtype genotype to a much milder current phenotype .
Most important of all, in my opinion.
Yes, it’s a hypothesis at this stage. But nothing else explains the Sweden real world evidence for me. We see parallels in many other countries, but Sweden (and perhaps Belarus and Serbia) are the cleanest examples, with all the various lockdown measures in other countries simply muddying the data.
And of course it’s a hypothesis that needs to be demonstrated and verified through much proper scientific enquiry. Which is a protracted process with probably hundreds of disparate research groups undertaking work.

Most of these groups, I would suggest will be setting out to ‘prove’ that the virus hasn’t lost its virulence, because of the huge drive to ‘keep things going’.

I’m not suggesting that the ORF-8 deletion is necessarily the cause of the loss of virulence. It’s just a leading candidate.

In summary, I am satisfied for myself that genetic deletion or mutation leading to a low-virulence phenotype has occurred. (It may not be the exact same genomic variation in every country.)

But I acknowledge that the hard scientific proof will not be completed easily or disseminated easily, in a climate, where the constant push is to prolong the ‘crisis’ at all costs.

148144 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #753 of 2331 🔗

Are the proportion of true positive tests increasing? I suggest we don’t know. As Professor Gupta said several months ago, the only really meaningful metric is deaths. And even that is now mired in uncertainty, with the random process surrounding testing, and the potential dis- interpretation of a ‘positive’ test.
If you have a heart attack and are given a PCR test on admission to ICU which shows positive, then succumb to the heart issue, that will be a Covid death. Mass PCR testing allows you to come up with all sorts of spurious conclusions, if you are devious enough.
I’d go so far as to say that if there was no PCR test, there would now be no epidemic. (I’m not denying that something was happening back in the Spring, but that was then and not now.)

148676 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #754 of 2331 🔗

Are the proportion of true positive tests increasing? I suggest we don’t know.

I agree we don’t know . If the proportion of positive results is increasing, those positive results must be either true or false (or a mixture of course). It may be that the pressures of testing are making the procedures less reliable, or that the disease really is spreading, or some other cause, or a mixture. But we do need to find out which it is.

147901 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, #755 of 2331 🔗

Why is it looking increasingly unlikely? Because Anders Tegnell said he could use highly localised and extremely short term quarantines, notice could not will? You are clutching at straws.

147553 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mayo, 3, #756 of 2331 🔗

its autumn. of course there will be a small rise. like with all the other colds out there.

ps a ‘small rise’ is not a ‘sharp uptick’

147566 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to steve_w, #757 of 2331 🔗

If it really is the case that Tegnell is considering the introduction of previously unused measures at this stage of the pandemic, it suggests more than a small local rise.

147575 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 3, #758 of 2331 🔗

I prefer the situation in Sweden as posted by Carrie earlier, rather than the ”worrying news” in the media, who aren’t particularly good at reporting news from Sweden;
(Carrie, hope its OK to re-post…)

Carrie:
…. There are elements of the Swedish press (Gates-influenced ?) who are forever on his back so he has to choose his words carefully and at least *appear* to be keeping an open mind. With Norway and Denmark now seeing rising cases and mandating masks in some situations, you can imaging the pressure Tegnell is under…

Here is the latest summary report from the Swedish Public Health Agency:
The situation in Sweden
In Sweden, covid-19 continues to circulate in society. As expected, local outbreaks of infection are seen in connection with, for example, leisure activities and events. It is largely among young people and young adults that this spread of infection has been detected, but the infection risks spreading to people in other age groups in, for example, households. It is still important that everyone, including adolescents and young adults, stays home at the slightest symptom that may be a sign of covid-19 infection. See also the advice and recommendations that apply.
There is still a high incidence of cold symptoms in society in general, which increases the demand for testing for covid-19. During week 37, over 140,000 tests were analyzed. The increasing incidence of cold symptoms is generally judged to be due to an increased spread of other respiratory viruses, but in some age groups also covid-19.
During week 37, 1,598 cases were reported, which is more than the previous week (1,332 cases) and an increase compared to the average for weeks 34-36. The proportion of tests that were positive in laboratory analysis was 1.2 percent, which is the same level as week 36. Nationally, the incidence was 15.5 cases per 100,000 inhabitants during week 37. The incidence over 14 days (weeks 36 and 37 in total) was 28 cases per 100,000 inhabitants.
Regional differences can be seen in both the number of cases of covid-19 and the proportion of positive samples and the number of samples taken. The number of cases of covid-19 increased in Dalarna, Jönköping, Uppsala, Västmanland and Örebro, compared with the average for weeks 34-36, while the number of cases decreased in Blekinge and Kalmar and was unchanged in other regions.
The number of new intensive care patients with confirmed covid-19 remained unchanged. Based on data up to and including week 35, the number of deaths nationally remained within the normal range for the season.
There is a much longer version, but thought this should suffice! I’ve picked out some important parts in bold..

147577 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mayo, #759 of 2331 🔗

I couldnt read the paywalled article. But he has said before he doesn’t rule anything out because he doesn’t know what winter will bring. I imagine it will be measured and commensurate. Reduce gatherings from 50 to 49 for example.

what suggests more than a small local rise is the hospitalisation data there there has been more than a small local rise.

147869 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mayo, #760 of 2331 🔗

As a sensible scientist he doesn’t rule anything out and he also doesn’t make wild predictions. He has suggest certain measures could be used. We will see whether the measures are actually used. We will also see whether the limit on gatherings is increased to 500 a week today.

147511 chris, replying to chris, 3, #761 of 2331 🔗

Have the wheels fallen of Boris’s bus today?
Track and trace app not functioning on old (poor peoples’) phones. T+T can’t measure distances accurately because bluetooth not effective for that. Vallance and Whitty shown to be liars about 90% population vulnarability. Based on 6 months old testing. T cell immunity ignored, similar illness immunity ignored. HCQ, remdesevir etc treatment ignored. Carrie and Wilfred cynically ‘ thumbing their noses ‘ at Britons and ‘ living it up ‘ in Lake Como £600/night hotel whilst her ‘ sugar daddy ‘ cynically ‘ turns the screw ‘ on us and the economy promising at least 6 month’s more hardship. Rishi (the ‘patsy’ chancellor) forced to use our credit card again to keep workers jobs open (but not actually employed). Rishi only planned for 6 month’s lockdown now it is ‘ never ending ‘. Whitty and Valance ‘ on the make ‘ with GSK shares. Interest rates heading negative next month. Now we know why Boris needs to threaten to use the Army….massive unemployment, food cost inflation and crime looms before Xmas.

147518 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to chris, #762 of 2331 🔗

Probably need something BIG to stop this takeover

147513 Dan Clarke, 1, #763 of 2331 🔗

NGO’s have got themselves into every walk of life.

147515 Mel, #764 of 2331 🔗

//:0

147647 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sarigan, 1, #766 of 2331 🔗

“Study could reignite hopes that coronavirus immunity ‘passports’ may be possible”. Hopes? Fears, more like.

147519 chris, replying to chris, 5, #767 of 2331 🔗

Have the wheels fallen of Boris’s bus today?
Track and trace app not functioning on old (poor peoples’) phones. T+T can’t measure distances accurately because bluetooth not effective for that. Vallance and Whitty shown to be liars about 90% population vulnarability. Based on 6 months old testing. T cell immunity ignored, similar illness immunity ignored. HCQ, remdesevir etc treatment ignored. Carrie and Wilfred cynically ‘ thumbing their noses ‘ at Britons and ‘ living it up ‘ in Lake Como £600/night hotel whilst her ‘ sugar daddy ‘ cynically ‘ turns the screw ‘ on us and the economy promising at least 6 month’s more hardship. Rishi (the ‘patsy’ chancellor) forced to use our credit card again to keep workers jobs open (but not actually employed). Rishi only planned for 6 month’s lockdown now it is ‘ never ending ‘. Whitty and Valance ‘ on the make ‘ with GSK shares. Interest rates heading negative next month. Now we know why Boris needs to threaten to use the Army….massive unemployment, food cost inflation and crime looms before Xmas.

147546 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to chris, #768 of 2331 🔗

has anyone downloaded it? I will for interest but I wont use it – as I suspect is the case for the 1 in 5 in scotland that downloaded it

147552 ▶▶ chris, replying to chris, #769 of 2331 🔗

Boris now needs an ’emergency’ so he can double down on restrictions. Channel Tunnel could be a target. Food shortages most likely.

147521 Victoria, 2, #770 of 2331 🔗

These include Anthony Fauci, the “AIDS Czar”, who as head of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases has presided over an era in which several hundred billion dollars have been spent on AIDS research and treatment, including a completely futile but continuing search for a vaccine.

According to Dr Judy Mkovitz, she worked for Fauci, then isolated the virus from HIV (Doctoral Thesis), Fauci directed a cover up (and every one else was paid off) and due to this delay Robert Gallow wrote his own paper and years later that was published – during this delay millions of people were killed unneccary. See her Plandemic movie (was on YouTube but censored, now on https://plandemicvideo.com and other places)

147522 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 22, #771 of 2331 🔗

There is no conspiracy here, just colossal incompetence and negligence.

Wrong!

Just today our wonderful government has announced that coronavirus measures should not be allowed to stand in the way of our environmental policies.

They can stand in the way of everything else, free speech, freedom of association, freedom from fear of violence from covid marshalls and police, any kind of freedom your care to name, even suggesting that students should be incarcerated in their universities over Christmas less they spread the dreaded disease – but they cannot stop the green revolution.

No conspiracy?

Please!!

147569 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Old Bill, 2, #772 of 2331 🔗

Seconded.

147591 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Old Bill, 1, #773 of 2331 🔗

Very silly to link the Covid fascism with other issues like ‘climate change’.

It undermines and weakens the arguments by trying to ride several hobby-horses at once – you fall off and get taken for a bare-back clown.

147679 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to RickH, -1, #774 of 2331 🔗

Completely wrong and I’m afraid to say naive. sorry mate but you’re well behind the curve. Old Bill is of course right.

I agree that perhaps it is still too much for some people to comprehend and that we should concentrate our energies on this particular issue but it is becoming increasingly clear as each day passes, as more and more articles, op-ed’s, documents etc etc come to the fore, the connections in the web are being joined up and exposed. So if that’s what you meant then fine but to say that it is silly is frankly, absurd. So let’s take this hill together and we can work out our differences later and sort the rest out. This is THE FULCRUM EVENT and catalyst for everything else in the agenda to be rolled out.

The rest will ultimately have to be faced as it is all part of a multi pronged assault.

That is now undeniable!

147701 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 1, #775 of 2331 🔗

It bears a lot of similarities.Dodgy computer models,settled science.
Why is closing roads and installing cycle lanes everywhere a solution to a respiratory virus.
The powers that be have just found a better scare to control us,that is the connection

147797 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #776 of 2331 🔗

Rick haven’t you noticed climate change has featured in the covid lockdown debate? It is party of the story. Lockdown has been suggested as a trial run for what carbon zero will look like.

147523 Dan Clarke, #777 of 2331 🔗

The Pharma and Climate Change lobby assisted by various ‘Foundations’ will plough on until they are stopped………….

147524 Graham, replying to Graham, #778 of 2331 🔗

An ‘experimenter’ (not sure quite what he believes) writes on being told to go forth and multiply when telling non-mask-wearers off: https://capx.co/speaking-vs-sneaking-or-what-happens-when-you-confront-the-maskless/ . Quite funny in a way.

147551 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Graham, #779 of 2331 🔗

Strangely enough, no way to comment. Chickenshit. (Not you of course, Graham).

147528 Mel, replying to Mel, 8, #780 of 2331 🔗

Just sent this to my MP, with a snapshot of the NHS report on “yesterday’s” daily deaths, showing actually most occurred over the course of a week, only 4 on the actual day, 3 of whom were over 65 – I cant post the snapshot

//:0

Hello

This is the NHS report on “daily” deaths WITH (not of) COVID 19 taken from the NHS website https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/ .  As you can see below – on 22nd of September only 4 people actually died, 3 of whom were over 80 years of age – and probably a result of the continuing failure to keep the virus out of care homes. I would really love you to attempt to explain to me why the government think stats like this are a justification for infringing the civil liberties of the people of this country and putting on hold any and all community events, preventing families from visiting each other, massive impacts on the physical and mental health of society,all musical, cultural and sporting events, all public and private celebration, and driving the economy off a cliff. Really, seriously, why??

I await her reply with bated breath, having received no response to my email of last week.

147543 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Mel, 10, #781 of 2331 🔗

I’ve noticed on the news they’ve stopped saying how many had ‘underlying health conditions’. Is that because the answer would be: ‘all of them’?

147641 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to kf99, 2, #782 of 2331 🔗

Is that TV news? I noticed yesterday they still mentioned it in the Guardian and the Telegraph (all those that died in hospital had underlying health conditions).

147531 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #783 of 2331 🔗

Anyone ever see Johnson as a fully fledged member of the dictatorship? Were water cannons the start?

147555 ▶▶ chris, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #784 of 2331 🔗

Boris now needs an ’emergency’ so he can double down on restrictions. Channel Tunnel could be a target. Food shortages most likely.

147541 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 4, #785 of 2331 🔗

Operation Moonshot has just been renamed to operation bogey.

Every day you place a finger up your nose, extract a bogey and chew it for a while. If it tastes ‘virusy’ you self isolate for two weeks on full pay.

Tomorrow morning Charlie Stayt and Naga Munchetty will demonstrate the technique on Breakfast news and within days the sheep will be following suit – especially those that love the idea of another two weeks off on full pay,

147557 ▶▶ Will, replying to Old Bill, #786 of 2331 🔗

Sounds considerably more accurate than the PCR test.

147584 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Old Bill, 1, #787 of 2331 🔗

That’s the 3rd good belly laugh I’ve had this morning on this site.

147548 chris, replying to chris, 2, #788 of 2331 🔗

Boris now needs an ’emergency’ so he can double down on restrictions. Channel Tunnel could be a target. Food shortages most likely.

147554 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to chris, 2, #789 of 2331 🔗

He could declare war on Sweden.

A similar tactic worked for Maggie.

147558 ▶▶▶ chris, replying to Old Bill, 1, #790 of 2331 🔗

Novichok ?…third time lucky

147894 ▶▶ Richard, replying to chris, #791 of 2331 🔗

I fear you are correct – there was a brief item this morning on LBC following Groves statement yesterday around hauliers not being ready for 1st January. The issues being a) they still don’t know what they are going to need to do as government doesn’t yet either and more frightening there will be a requirement to use a “smart” customs portal to log goods into – this isn’t ready for Beta testing until December (Government IT project so what could go wrong there ?!) and anything “smart” is definitely the opposite…

147549 TyRade, 4, #792 of 2331 🔗

In the car this morning, frantically switching from James ‘Carl Beech a hero’ O’Brien on LBC to , well, anything, I happened upon 5 Live interview with Lord O’Donnell, ex head of the civil service. He waffled painfully about having more economists on SAGE to balance ‘the science’, yet more or less bought all ‘the science’ (including masks) wholesale. When asked if he thought lockdown had been a good idea stuttered something about ‘I don’t have all the information to answer that’!! Will someone send him the lockdownsceptics link? Personal PS: I worked with Gus O’D (‘GOD’) in the Treasury in the early 1980s. He was a top class econometrician (‘modeller’). I fear the climb up the greasy official pole has dulled his edge.

147559 Jonathan Smith, replying to Jonathan Smith, 3, #793 of 2331 🔗

Buried in amongst good points well made, Neville Hodgkinsons article contains the suggestion that HIV was never established as the causative agent for AIDS. If HIV is not the causative agent of AIDS how come the reason that more Britons “die falling down the stairs” than from AIDS, is precisely because of pharmaceuticals that suppress HIV in infected individuals?

To my mind this pseudoscientific view distracts from the parallels he draws between the AIDS panic and the Covid panic. All the valid points will be dismissed as the musings of the ‘tin foil hat’ variety.

Michael Fitzpatrick in ‘The Truth About the AIDS Panic’ (1987) and Edward King in ‘Safety in Numbers’ (1992) wrote of the confinement of infections to specific groups (gay men, injecting drug users) and the false narrative of the threat to the general populace in the West without resorting to pseudoscience.

147693 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Jonathan Smith, 1, #794 of 2331 🔗

Do you consider Mullis a ‘pseudoscientist’? He said that Montagnier could not produce a paper to prove the link. Perhaps you can.

147563 alw, 7, #795 of 2331 🔗

Toby we live in Primrose Hill. Just out on our daily walk today and saw Police walking through the village. Overheard one say to the others something to the effect of this is a good area to keep an eye on!! The one at the rear walked into a restaurant without a mask on. Disgraceful, rarely do we see the Police round here and the drug dealing is largely ignored. Is the virus so intelligent that it can tell the difference between you walking to your table, sitting down or going to the loo? Can we please call out this nonsense. Hopefully through a Lockdown Sceptics this can be called out far and wide for the misuse of proper policing.

147564 chris, replying to chris, 10, #796 of 2331 🔗

Have the wheels fallen of Boris’s bus today?
Track and trace app not functioning on old (poor peoples’) phones. T+T can’t measure distances accurately because bluetooth not effective for that. Vallance and Whitty shown to be liars about 90% population vulnarability. Based on 6 months old testing. T cell immunity ignored, similar illness immunity ignored. HCQ, remdesevir etc treatment ignored. Carrie and Wilfred cynically ‘ thumbing their noses ‘ at Britons and ‘ living it up ‘ in Lake Como £600/night hotel whilst her ‘ sugar daddy ‘ cynically ‘ turns the screw ‘ on us and the economy promising at least 6 month’s more hardship. Rishi (the ‘patsy’ chancellor) forced to use our credit card again to keep workers jobs open (but not actually employed). Rishi only planned for 6 month’s lockdown now it is ‘ never ending ‘. Whitty and Valance ‘ on the make ‘ with GSK shares. Interest rates heading negative next month. Now we know why Boris needs to threaten to use the Army….massive unemployment, food cost inflation and crime looms before Xmas. What so called emergency is planned to keep the charade going? Any Ideas Bill?

147578 ▶▶ RickH, replying to chris, 7, #797 of 2331 🔗

Before it was got at, the WHO never recommended widespread ‘track and trace’ anyway. It’s another fake salvation for the gullible.

147678 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to RickH, 2, #798 of 2331 🔗

WHO never recommended face masks for the general population – until the beginning of June 2020. And the change was not based on any research evidence.

147654 ▶▶ mjr, replying to chris, 2, #799 of 2331 🔗

why do you keep posting this? This is at least 3 times in the last 15 minutes? I think we appreciated it the first time

147870 ▶▶▶ chris, replying to mjr, #800 of 2331 🔗

sorry, wont do it again.

147567 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 12, #801 of 2331 🔗

Went to Tesco yesterday. There were 3 people behind me in the queue for the sanitisation station.

I did my hands. Then started on the trolley handle. Then re-did my hands. Then rolled up my sleeves and did from wrist to armpits. Then rolled up my trouser legs and did ankle to knees. Then used the spray to do my front and back, a little dabbed on my neck. Next hair. Then I started doing the trolley frame in detail with the spray and an old toothbrush.

147585 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to steve_w, 6, #802 of 2331 🔗

Bet you still missed a bit

147586 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to steve_w, 7, #803 of 2331 🔗

A ‘walk through’ decontamination shower soon coming to a supermarket near you!

147649 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Harry hopkins, #804 of 2331 🔗

now what does that remind me of……

147612 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to steve_w, 1, #805 of 2331 🔗

You cannot be too careful. You wouldn’t want to get one of those pesky Covid cases whereby you are perfectly healthy.

147622 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to JHuntz, 8, #806 of 2331 🔗

Turns out I have been covid symptomatic for the last 50 years given that the main symptom of covid is not having any symptoms

147644 ▶▶ mjr, replying to steve_w, 4, #807 of 2331 🔗

Did the trolley comply or was it one of those rare supermarket trollies with a mind of its own

147739 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to steve_w, #808 of 2331 🔗

Thank you for that laugh. Hope you did actually do half of what you said.

147571 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #809 of 2331 🔗

About the polls: you would only take part in a poll about the effectiveness of measures in preventing transmission of the virus if you believed the implicit assumptions behind it.
“No sceptics were harmed in the manufacture of this propaganda”. AG.

147573 RickH, 2, #810 of 2331 🔗

Just a shout-out for a CEBM item on the basic questions around PCR testing, for those needing a reference for mounting an argument. As usual – concise and to the point :

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/pcr-positives-what-do-they-mean/

147574 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 7, #811 of 2331 🔗

So looking at various sources i’ve took a modest estimate of the current cost of COVID at £200bn. With circa 40,000 deaths UK wide I make that £5,000,000 per death at a median age of 83. In a way I hope we have second wave so we can at least get some value for money

147580 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to JHuntz, 2, #812 of 2331 🔗

you have to divide the 200bn by zero to get the cost per avoided death

147583 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to steve_w, 4, #813 of 2331 🔗

You absolute swine!

You just broke my calculator.

147604 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Old Bill, 2, #814 of 2331 🔗

you’re going to need a bigger calculator!

147603 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to JHuntz, 2, #815 of 2331 🔗

That nicely sums up the total lack of cost benefit analysis for tackling the crisis.

147610 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to godowneasy, 2, #816 of 2331 🔗

there has been lots of papers on this but they never made it into the government consciousness. Even SAGE said we need to do this sort of covid deaths/lockdown deaths actuarial analysis before the lockdown. And Mark Woolhouse from SAGE said SAGE wasn’t broad enough to do it and it needed more health economists on it etc.

This was all known in early March – first paper I read after reading the Ferguson model was from Bath University saying lockdown would take more life-years than covid.

I think they just discounted lockdown deaths as they tend to be longer term and can be blamed on other people.

147605 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JHuntz, #817 of 2331 🔗

… and that ignores the non-monetary costs.

147669 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to JHuntz, 1, #818 of 2331 🔗

I think it would be useful to keep an itemised running total of crazy expenditure.
How much did you allow for the cost of the Nightingales (plus ongoing cost of mothballs)?
Then there was the £200m per week to reserve empty beds in private hospitals that was running for a few months. Furlough the biggie, of course.

147588 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #819 of 2331 🔗

“Hong Kong activist Joshua Wong arrested for 2019 ‘unlawful assembly’

Joshua Wong claims he is being targeted by Beijing’s campaign against activists calling for democratic governance and greater civil rights”

This can now happen here

147639 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 1, #820 of 2331 🔗

This will happen here

147651 ▶▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to mjr, 1, #821 of 2331 🔗

It already did didn’t it? Piers Corbyn?

147680 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #822 of 2331 🔗

Covid has been very useful to CCP in distracting the world from their suppressing HK.

147597 Stuart C, replying to Stuart C, 4, #823 of 2331 🔗

What the hell is the point of the test and trace app, apart from ramping up the fear factor for the already neurotic?

147601 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Stuart C, #824 of 2331 🔗

A good question.

If it was used intelligently and interpreted in a way that gave genuine information about changes in the overall pattern of probable patterns of spread – all well and good.

But this ramping up of ‘cases’ is pure propaganda.

147621 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Stuart C, 4, #825 of 2331 🔗

This blurb related to it made me laugh:-

“When you first register for the app you will be asked for the first half of your postcode. You can check the app every day to see whether where you live has become a high risk area for coronavirus. If it is, you will also receive a notification to let you know. This will help you make daily decisions to protect yourself and those you love.”

It’s like a charter for the OCD afflicted and the paranoid. I’m intrigued to know what my daily decisions could be. Hang garlic in the doorway?

147623 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Achilles, 5, #826 of 2331 🔗

Another function is to tell us which water pumps in london have cholera so we can avoid them

147637 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to steve_w, 1, #827 of 2331 🔗

thank you John Snow. Oh that the current government had an advisor as astute as him

147712 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Achilles, #828 of 2331 🔗

I can find that out by chatting to the neighbours or asking the guy in the village shop. He knows everything, it’s where we buy our emergency paracetamol.

149176 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Stuart C, #829 of 2331 🔗

The app is highly effective.

Fantastic mechanism for funneling vast sums of taxpayer money to their corrupt friends.

147608 Dan Clarke, 9, #830 of 2331 🔗

Until the outward show of compliance, muzzles, is removed by us, the government can do what they want.

147616 steve_w, 5, #831 of 2331 🔗

I hear from a schoolteacher friend of mine that they are looking for people with T&T who have tested positive for covid so they can get their phones together for 15 minutes. They have all loved lockdown and want more! He’s still got to lay his patio

147617 Kelly deacons, 16, #832 of 2331 🔗

Just back from an unmasked trip to morrisons…..an unmasked woman kicking off in the middle of shop,something about someone reporting her for having people in the garden,and about everything on the TV,people all looked down at the floor of course………this govt and media sure have wound up people good and proper!

147625 RickH, replying to RickH, 4, #833 of 2331 🔗

Just thinking of the wider consequences of ramping up incontinent Fear of Infection as part of the contemporary obsession with safety.

As a lesser parallel – just consider the effects of wider concerns with ‘hygiene’ on children. There is pretty good evidence that the concern with sterility (apart from resulting in a sterile society) has damaged children’s immune systems compared with generations that ate dirt as a normal pastime.

However did we survive? ‘Germs’ everywhere; Dodgy strangers lurking on every corner’; terribly neglectful parents – letting us disappear for 8 hours at a stretch without wetting their knickers … and climbing tall trees, FFS!

Yeh – I know – the roads are indeed genuinely more dangerous. But that apart – ?

147634 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to RickH, 2, #834 of 2331 🔗

They want to micro manage every aspect of our lives

147629 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #835 of 2331 🔗

apparently 40k frontline nhs workers got the safe drug hydroxychloroquine, but it hasnt been offered to the public, they’ve banned it in Oz, just with a prescription here, and it has been proven as safe, unlike the vaccine they hope to give out

147657 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to Dan Clarke, #836 of 2331 🔗

apparently 40k frontline nhs workers got the safe drug hydroxychloroquine,

Where is the source for this information?

147718 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mayo, -1, #837 of 2331 🔗

You see Mayo. You have a differing establishment view you want the poeple on this site to know about. You haven’t yet worked out the most dare I say basic matters that are crucial to being human. You are quite a card.
Keep posting because you help strengthen the though and understanding of matters. But for your own future take a moment to seven to learn from the people on this site. Everyone of them knows more about something that intelligent hipster dashing you.

147771 ▶▶▶▶ Samhurt, replying to Basics, 1, #838 of 2331 🔗

There’s room for everyone here, Basics. Don’t be so pretentious

147786 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Samhurt, #839 of 2331 🔗

The guy’s got form. Absolutely room for everyone. Without manners and an attitude like tgis fellas, he expects more than what I said. Hes a joker. I would value real contrary comment, not his. Don’t be so foolish.

147929 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, #840 of 2331 🔗

Correct!

147632 godowneasy, 2, #842 of 2331 🔗

The closing down of debate and attack on any kind of dissent is something to behold. Surely this level of narrative management is only seen in wartime? It’s an indicator of what is at stake.

Scott Atlas, Trump’s new advisor to the Coronavirus Task Force, has put out something on his twitter feed which I believe sums this up nicely:
https://twitter.com/SWAtlasHoover/status/1308581495959965698

147636 RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #843 of 2331 🔗

Bottom line – anyone who is actually alive will take their chances with this virus – as with any other.

Those who are already brain-dead and have no meaningful life – won’t.

Whose genes hold the possibility of a future?

147675 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #844 of 2331 🔗

I know where my money is

147746 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to RickH, 1, #845 of 2331 🔗

I was driving the other day and a guy walked out in front of me without looking. If I hadn’t taken action (applying my brakes) he would have been knocked down and possibly killed. He was wearing a mask…

147805 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #846 of 2331 🔗

Nearly 28000 seriously injured on roads in uk last year of which 1750 killed.
We must stop these unnecessary injuries and deaths!!.
The government must do something!!.
Bring back the 5 mph speed limit and the man with the red flag.
Every bicycle must have stabilisers.
Drivers seats to face backwards to stop driver hitting windscreen.
Pedestrians must wear helmets

148288 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to mjr, #847 of 2331 🔗

Shortly driving will be disapproved of.
Why do you think all the cycling lanes?

148674 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Lockdown Truth, #848 of 2331 🔗

Covid death !

147638 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 8, #849 of 2331 🔗

God, how I hate the BBC. What fucking rules?! Why do so many people seem to believe that the government has the right to interfere in every aspect of our lives?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-53736087

147689 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Chicot, 9, #850 of 2331 🔗

It’s regurgitating tripe they published a while ago. The whole thing is unadulterated bollocks. At least they didn’t have a graphic of a masked-up homosexual couple in bed. They missed a trick there. They did, however, manage to find a lesbian couple in the report last night about how the Hysteria is affecting weddings. The BBC – a bunch of virtue-signalling bastards.

147815 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Tenchy, 2, #851 of 2331 🔗

…… masked up multiracial homosexual couple with a disabled transgender child………….. the BBC a bunch of institutionally virtue signalling bastards

147643 Basics, replying to Basics, #852 of 2331 🔗

Sunak now addressing commons

147646 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #853 of 2331 🔗

Permanent adjustment. New normal.

147648 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #854 of 2331 🔗

9.6 million jobs furloughed

147650 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #855 of 2331 🔗

£39.3bn furlough cost to date.

147704 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Basics, 1, #856 of 2331 🔗

Sad thing is mate, some folk on here want him replacing the buffoon! Sometimes I just don’t have the words!

147896 ▶▶▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Basics, #857 of 2331 🔗

And not just the direct costs – all that associated productivity lost.

147662 ▶▶ D B, replying to Basics, #858 of 2331 🔗

Anyone got the breakdown?

147684 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to D B, 4, #859 of 2331 🔗

Nope – just having one.

147727 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to D B, #860 of 2331 🔗

Test and trace scheme is equivalent to 4 aircraft carriers Sky News has just said to give an idea of scale. TnT is £12bn I think?

147754 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 2, #861 of 2331 🔗

Aircraft carriers with no aircraft, made of plastic, that don’t work.

147782 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 1, #862 of 2331 🔗

And dont like hot or cold water and wont work without 10 diversity mps on board. Yes. Sell em for scrap 5 years later to say Indian who buy for scrap but quickly refit and set sail.

Our taxes. Taken from our children’s mouths.

147812 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, #863 of 2331 🔗

Well guys, that’s every major UK government project over the last 50 years summed up quite succinctly

147653 Mayo, replying to Mayo, -15, #864 of 2331 🔗

Ferguson Paper Re-visited

This’ll go down well. I’ve just been looking at Ferguson’s March 16th paper again. You can find it at

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Now Scroll down to Page 10. Then look at the green line in Fig(b). That’s the prediction for the UK strategy.

Not only does Ferguson get the timing of the first “wave” (and death toll) right, he’s spot on with the timing of the second “wave” which according to his graph begins in mid to late September. The magnitude won’t be right but he could argue that we are suppressing with the current intervention measures.

Pretty impressive.

147656 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mayo, #865 of 2331 🔗

You have been looking at it again? Thought you did that yesterday.

147664 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Sarigan, 4, #866 of 2331 🔗

Mayos bible,he reads it everyday for inspiration

147841 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Sarigan, #867 of 2331 🔗

I looked at it yesterday – then again to-day.

147941 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Mayo, 1, #868 of 2331 🔗

Are you going to look at it again tomorrow?

147973 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, #869 of 2331 🔗

Pornhub has better offerings.

147659 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Mayo, 3, #870 of 2331 🔗

Fair enough, but my view has always been that the accuracy of Ferguson’s models is irrelevant because he himself broke lockdown in April for sex while the rest of us plebs were told to not meet anyone. In fact, if we assume that his models are accurate then that makes him look even worse because his modelling shows the disease could potentially be a real threat – and yet he still broke lockdown.

147847 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Poppy, -6, #871 of 2331 🔗

He had already recovered from the virus but that aside we are all sometimes guilty of do as I say nor as I do.

148016 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Mayo, 2, #872 of 2331 🔗

He should be held to a higher standard than Joe Public because he is in a position of trust and the one giving the government advice which affects every person in the country.

We also keep getting told by various scientists and the government that apparently we can get re-infected with Covid – I personally think that’s dubious but if that’s the official line then Ferguson should be seen to obey it too.

147670 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mayo, 3, #873 of 2331 🔗

He could try to argue that, but the evidence doesn’t really support it

And the magnitude being so far wrong is crucial

147837 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Julian, -2, #874 of 2331 🔗

The magnitude of the first peak isn’t wrong. The magnitude of the second one might be.

147672 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, 2, #875 of 2331 🔗

The green line just seems to be an identical copy of the black line, exactly 6 months further forward

presumably if we lockdown then ferguson whitty etc can claim they’ve saved 10s of 1000s of lives.
But if we don’t lockdown, and the second wave turns out to be a seasonal ripple – they will be shown to be utterly wrong.

hence their desire for a lockdown

147825 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Major Panic, 1, #876 of 2331 🔗

Which is why lockdown 2 has been inevitable since lockdown 1 began.

147854 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Major Panic, 1, #877 of 2331 🔗

No they won’t; the reason there won’t have been a second wave is because the pubs shut at 10 pm.

147682 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mayo, #878 of 2331 🔗

Not when you realise this is an influenza model and so will include seasonal influenza variations we see each year.

147685 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 2, #879 of 2331 🔗

Pretty impressive.”

Nope. Not really. The essential question is not about timing – it’s about proportionality of measures for a disease of moderate consequence that follows a common path.

As to ‘second wave’ – It’s late September, and we have seen the usual uptick in infections some of which (a small minority) may be SARS-CoV-2.

But – hey-ho – what’s new?

147694 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Mayo, 2, #880 of 2331 🔗

As I said before…
The predicted timing of the first wave isn’t even right, Mayo/Neil has it peaking in mid May, versus the actual peak which was in mid April. And the November peak he shows is not a second peak, it is the first peak delayed due to lockdown preventing a first peak (green and brown curves). And as we know the predicted magnitude of the first wave was completely over-estimated. So way off all round…

147832 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to nowhereman, -2, #881 of 2331 🔗

READ THE PAPER.

From the Paper “ Green shows a suppression strategy incorporating closure of schools and universities, case isolation and population-wide social distancing beginning in late March 2020″

The first wave (GREEN) was predicted to peak in early/mid April.

And the November peak he shows is not a second peak, it is the first peak delayed due to lockdown preventing a first peak (green and brown curves).

Whether it’s a continuation or a separate peak is irrelevant. He projects a lockdown followed by a period of low infection rates before an uptick beginning in mid-September.

And as we know the predicted magnitude of the first wave was completely over-estimated

Ferguson predicted a death toll range of between 12k & 48k for R0 at 2.6. See TABLE 4 (&5)

So way off all round…

If you think Ferguson is “way off”. How well do you think Sunetra Gupta did with her scenario that 60% of UK had already been infected in March?

147698 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 2, #882 of 2331 🔗

Impressive is a massive understatement….supernatural would be better…..given that no-one has a clue how many people actually died of covid……anywhere…. and the test does not exist that can diagnose covid 19 infections

147792 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #883 of 2331 🔗

True the 40000 figure which is wheeled out as gospel is the most unreliable figure of them all.Due to labelling everything as Covid and lack of autopsies we will never know

147722 ▶▶ R G, replying to Mayo, 3, #884 of 2331 🔗

“The magnitude won’t be right, but…”

Oh, well that’s alright then.

147723 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mayo, 4, #885 of 2331 🔗

Any correct predictions he has made regarding timing is far, FAR outweighed by his inaccuracies around deadliness. It’s the difference between a cold and ebola you sausage.

147732 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mayo, 8, #886 of 2331 🔗

That’s like saying a fortune teller told me I’d be hit by a bus on 4th July. I wasn’t. I was merely scraped by a passing bicycle. But it *did* happen on 4th July so YES I shall give her all my money

147831 ▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Mayo, #887 of 2331 🔗

“We do not consider the ethical or economic implications of either strategy here.” What a strange, narrow perspective on a problem.

147855 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Mayo, #888 of 2331 🔗

A broken clock is right twice a day.

Plus, just because he “predicted” it doesn’t mean he’s factually correct. His model is what the UK government is working to.

“Is that mid-September already? Ferguson says that’s the second wave starting. Tell Chris and Pat to get their suits on.”

147926 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mayo, 1, #889 of 2331 🔗

I notice there’s no mention of face coverings!

147931 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #890 of 2331 🔗

or lockdowns

147963 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, #891 of 2331 🔗

Nah. I suspect he was just given advance inside information.

147658 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 6, #892 of 2331 🔗

I was thinking today about the general public who advocate the use of masks, but looking at it from a different angle.

They essentially believe that “if it saves one life, then it has to be worth it” or words to that effect.

Now let’s forget for now about the fact they make no difference away.

But, if they did, how are they saving a life? They have the belief that this highly-transmissible disease could wash through everyone, and therefore, I would suggest that if someone is susceptible, they are merely “delaying” their infection, not actually saving anyone. If they are susceptible, they would get in anyway within a few days/weeks/months, somehow, someway, because short of wearing a hazmat suit, how do you stop a highly-transmissible virus? In fact, I expect this “second wave” is merely the result of those shielding going back out into the wild and virus picking off the highly susceptible, before disappearing completely.

As far as feeling they are saving the NHS, I think it is certainly clear to everybody with half a brain cell that the NHS could cope with any second wave (or ripple, as someone eloquently put it on Twitter!).

So I do wonder what they actually feel they are achieving, apart from being in a “goody two-shoes” club?

So as well as hundreds of years of research saying masks do not work, and due to the above, I wonder if this thought process could be thrown in the mix.

147665 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mrjoeaverage, 1, #893 of 2331 🔗

Joining in. Doing their bit. That’s as far as it goes.

147666 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #894 of 2331 🔗

Indeed. It’s all part of the crazy notion that has been got into people’s heads that we can “beat” the virus.

147674 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to mrjoeaverage, 7, #895 of 2331 🔗

Its weird, because a lot of lives are being lost to other than covid, treatments stopped and delayed, they dont seem to think ‘if only one cancer patient is saved’

147809 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #896 of 2331 🔗

Because they still believe Ferguson’s models. Like some people on here, they’ll believe any old shite if it fits their narrative.

147707 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to mrjoeaverage, 12, #897 of 2331 🔗

Virtue signalling, nothing more. The masked zombies will be the same herd-following crowd who thought it was great fun to stand on their doorstep at 8pm on a Thursday a few months ago banging a pot with a spoon. Complete muppets the lot of them.

147738 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 2, #898 of 2331 🔗

Brainwashed fools.

147725 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to mrjoeaverage, 2, #899 of 2331 🔗

Patting each other on the back one pathetic germ-filled rag at a time.

147781 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to mrjoeaverage, #900 of 2331 🔗

The same argument is inverted for My Body My Choice advocates i.e. abortion.

I’m not against the practice of abortion for medical purposes but the figures show that at most 2% of abortions are for medical purposes. The other 98% are lifestyle choices.

Now I’m not knocking the hard decisions some women make but as for saving lives and contributing to society (as we are being told with Covid measures) surely keeping the babies or giving them up for adoption would help society rather than just think about yourself?

That’s how the logic goes for Covid if you use My Body My Choice. Abortions allow a woman to not have to face what would could be very difficult circumstances, and the act itself is no walk in the park. So she will not sacrifice herself to meet some long term and quite possibly intangible goal for the rest of society.

Because that sacrifice could be more than the gain to society and hence a lose win situation.

But for masks apparently sacrificing your health is for the good of society to meet an intangible goal. A goal that apparently is ignored by the flu virus.

147821 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mrjoeaverage, 6, #901 of 2331 🔗

the problem is that a large proportion of the public are stupid.. Most of the others have a brain but are incapable of independent thought.

Old joke.
Q What is the difference between a supermarket shopper and a supermarket trolley….
A A supermarket trolley has a mind of its own

149097 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to mrjoeaverage, #902 of 2331 🔗

It’s like arguing that no one should ever drive a car, because road accidents and pollution kill. Logic is not strong with these people.

147677 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 13, #903 of 2331 🔗

We’ll get nowhere until people stop thinking this is about Covid. And I’m not a covid denier.

147692 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #904 of 2331 🔗

Correct, it is about global change.

147734 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dave #KBF, #905 of 2331 🔗

yep

147745 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #906 of 2331 🔗

Yes as I posted earlier covid is a mcguffin and most people are falling into the trap, sealing their fate

147868 ▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #907 of 2331 🔗

I think one of scariest things about this is that the Davos attendees might really be arrogant enough (and stupid enough) to believe they are doing the right thing for the simpletons in the societies they rule (sic) and for the planet. That they are doing this to save us and that we’d never understand if they didn’t use trickery and force.

To paraphrase MLK, “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity”.

And to paraphrase St Greta, “How dare you?!?!”

147681 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #908 of 2331 🔗

Labour MP Shadown Chancellor.

“UK has the highest excess death rate in Europe”

They really are pathetic

147703 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #909 of 2331 🔗

Except….. We don’t

147720 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 3, #910 of 2331 🔗

(Isn’t that Belgium? )

(Altho tbh it wouldn’t surprise me what with the kill everyone in care homes policy from march)

147688 Mark, replying to Mark, 2, #911 of 2331 🔗

The Daily Mail Home page this morning must make pretty depressing reading for the government’s media coverage monitors. It’s pretty harsh, although there are some coronapanic propaganda stories further down (and I don’t know to what extent the stores displayed might reflect my own browsing history). Looks like there’s some considerable hostility towards the government’s approach in the Mail’s ownership or editorial group (long overdue, imo).

But then they publish this sneering piece of journalistic nastiness by John Naish (evidently an establishment coronapanic propagandist), which seems to be an exercise in twisting the facts to try to make Tegnell (and the Swedish approach) look as bad as possible.

The irony is that Naish puts across some strong arguments against the panic, while trying to twist them to fit an anti-Tegnell and anti-Sweden agenda.

Which raises the question (as I’m not familiar with Naish or his usual output), is he just the nasty smear artist he appears to be from this article, or is he a secret sceptic sneaking inconvenient facts into a story, under cover of conformity with Official Truth dogma? I’m assuming the former, for the moment.

Is the fact UK had such a good flu season the real reason covid deaths in the UK are so high?

147853 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Mark, 2, #912 of 2331 🔗

The dry tinder theory, put forward by the famous Ivor Cummings video. Makes sense.

147690 Basics, 2, #913 of 2331 🔗

Bill and Ben on monday. Now sunak full of “nurture” installing his Pay As You Grow scheme. It’s all getting a bit elvish.

I’m not clear paying as you grow is ideal for encouraging, er, growth.

147695 Will, replying to Will, 3, #914 of 2331 🔗

So, more reports that they are going to deliberately infect people with this “deadly” virus to test a vaccine. Whilst I am sure I have had this glorified cold and my T cells comfortably dealt with it, do you think they would let me volunteer to be infected by the, statistically, near harmless virus but not the be exposed to the dodgy vaccine?

147696 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Will, #915 of 2331 🔗

Lol

147736 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Will, #916 of 2331 🔗

Just reading that most pharma companies are backtracking on this ….

147822 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Will, 1, #917 of 2331 🔗

Why do they need to deliberately infect people? Isn’t a visit to your Aunt Marjory’s House a certain way to catch it? Nicola Sturgeon thinks it is.

147953 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, #918 of 2331 🔗

Well that is what they would have you believe. The truth is they are struggling to get another subjects to contract the virus to reach their target sample size.That’s why AZN went to Brazil with the Oxford vaccine.

147964 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 1, #919 of 2331 🔗

They could just let the trial participants go to the pub in groups of more than 6!

147700 Basics, 2, #920 of 2331 🔗

Oh wor what a sight! That Bugie yellow dress the cult representative spokeswoman is wesring in the commons. Even screaming lord such wouldn’t make a fashion statement like that.

Shh don’t tell her she’s clashing with the black and yellow hazard tape on the commons floor.

147702 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #921 of 2331 🔗

So, to pay for this debacle is the plan for the banks to charge us for holding our meagre savings and hand it over to the government, while increasing the fees as we go, until we have no savings?

147721 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #922 of 2331 🔗

Remember the Greek “haircut”…?

147731 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #923 of 2331 🔗

The suicide inducing “bail in”?

Not intended to make light of how serious Greece has been attacked by banks and the EU.

147708 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 4, #925 of 2331 🔗

Basic human rights, ethics, morality, kindness, sincerity ..all of which define our humanity…and none of which are ‘scientific facts’ or ‘scientifically provable’.

Is it then a wonder that in the planned technocracy there seems to be no place, or value, for the ‘old normal or the ‘old humans’?

147728 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Humanity First, 1, #926 of 2331 🔗

Humanity itself will soon become an alien concept – “It’s life Jim, but not as we know it”

147761 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, #927 of 2331 🔗

I agree. Thinking from your point, not addressing you but writing generally I’ll comment:

Your first paragraph is being replaced by SG and soon all Govs under the vague term “Wellbeing” – wellbeing is not ever going to have a definition to pin it down, it is going to be the new leverage point. For the well-being of society etc. Don’t fall for the intended misunderstanding that when you hear ‘well-being’ it means the things in your first paragraph.

‘Well-being’ will be used to have people accept less of everything – for common good.

Sturgeon came out with the national wellbeing on monday. Meaningless, yet used as code by her.

147709 Nigel Sherratt, 4, #928 of 2331 🔗

Fauci is pehaps the supreme example of flak catcher turned mau-mauer. The corruption caused by allowing government employees to obtain personal patents based on their tax payer funded work is a major part of the problem. Patenting a virus makes no sense but that’s the reality too.

147711 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 8, #929 of 2331 🔗

Have the Govt. ever shared their ‘science’ with the public at all? If they are making their decisions on it, there surely should be full public disclosure with sourced, verified and agreed facts. That science should then be openly debated with experts in their field outside of the Sage group before any decisions are made.

147715 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sarigan, 5, #930 of 2331 🔗

We don’t need to know apparently. We also don’t need to know about non-existent risk assessments in the same way D Raab doesn’t need to know basic stats about the death rate.

147713 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #931 of 2331 🔗

This may sound silly… You know when they say that a death is recorded as Covid if there was no positive test but Covid was “mentioned” on the death certificate? Has anyone ever come across a case where a death certificate says “death NOT Covid” but then it was recorded as Covid because it was mentioned on the certificate?

147729 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #932 of 2331 🔗

Need some authority for this (feel free to chip in anyone!) but I read somewhere that there are 3 sections on a death certificate: one describing the main cause of death, another describing contributory factors to death, and the third describing factors that were present but did not contribute to death. Because Covid-19 is a notifiable disease, it can appear in any one of these three sections, and even if it appears in the third section only, it is counted as a Covid death.

As I said, don’t take this as gospel because I don’t have any authority on hand but I did read it somewhere and if anyone else wants to correct me/elaborate that would be great.

147770 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Poppy, 1, #933 of 2331 🔗

My brother,an undertaker told me that having Covid put as the cause of death was a quick way to get the body released to the family.I can’t prove that’s true though.

147775 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Poppy, 1, #934 of 2331 🔗

An English death certificate has space under section “9. Cause of death” for multiple contributing factors.

The causes are then listed by importance in this section, the one I have for my mother in law they use Roman numerals against each factor.

147798 ▶▶▶ DeepBlueYonder, replying to Poppy, 1, #935 of 2331 🔗

Poppy:

To try and answer some of the questions you pose, I have asked (on 17/8/2020) the ONS under Freedom of Information to provide a breakdown of the 51,210 registered deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales for Week 11 to Week 31 as follows:

(i) The number of deaths where COVID-19 is mentioned as Cause of Death in section I(a) of the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) with no entries in Section I(b), I(c) or II.

(ii) The number of deaths where COVID-19 is mentioned as Cause of Death in section I(b) of the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) with no entries in Section I(c) or II.

(iii) The number of deaths where COVID-19 is mentioned as Cause of Death in section I(c) of the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) with no entry in Section II.

(iv) The number of deaths where COVID-19 is mentioned in Section II of the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) (‘Other significant conditions contributing to death but not related to the disease or condition causing it’)

See also: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

147945 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to DeepBlueYonder, #936 of 2331 🔗

I suspect that autopsies will routinely be deemed as unnecessary wherever Covid features on the death certificate. Thus the true cause of death can never be established.

147808 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #938 of 2331 🔗

There is a primary cause of death then you have contributory causes

Eg my father’s primary cause of death was bronchial pneumonia. Also listed was metastatic kidney cancer. He died of cancer but what actually finished him off was his lungs packing up.

147724 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #939 of 2331 🔗

Ed Conway on Sky – quote of the day for me – ‘Test & Trace is costing the equivalent of 4 aircraft carriers’

147742 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #940 of 2331 🔗

The Chancellor during his statement to the commons said the app has cost in excess of £12bn!

147816 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #941 of 2331 🔗

How can the app have cost more than twelve thousand million pounds?

It’s either a lie or the result of massive fraud and/or waste and/or corruption.

The media should be all over this.

147864 ▶▶▶▶ Richard, replying to charleyfarley, 1, #942 of 2331 🔗

It must be a lie – I can’t see how they can have spunked that much cash – they would have needed armies of developers to run up that kind of bill…

147968 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to charleyfarley, #943 of 2331 🔗

All the cronies are on the take

148189 ▶▶▶ bucky99, replying to Dave #KBF, #944 of 2331 🔗

Literally impossible to spend on software development in that timeframe.

147767 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #945 of 2331 🔗

Stuck out for me too. Gives an idea about what deoth of insanity these fuckers are perfoming at.

Great grand children will be paying for TnT.

147726 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 10, #946 of 2331 🔗

The price for staying alive is you don’t get to live a life. What is worse, you don’t even get to chose.

147799 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Achilles, 5, #947 of 2331 🔗

“A gilded cage is still a cage” – the Supreme Court define deprivation of liberty

“What good is it making someone safer if it merely makes them miserable?” – Lord Munby

147733 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 12, #948 of 2331 🔗

We need a pro forma admission of liability for the consequences of wearing a mask.
Is there a pro forma letter that could be made for all jurisdictions.
Non mask wearers and maskwearers under compulsion can hand it to managers etc etc.
As they are so keen to enforce mask wearing they should have no problem with unlimited liability for mask mouth for example.
May help put them on the back foot.
Bloody disgrace the unions aren’t defending the shop workers on this one.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12461990/mask-mouth-dentists-warn-rise-side-effect-damaging-teeth/

147748 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Nessimmersion, 5, #949 of 2331 🔗

This is what I’ve been telling people. The insurance companies will not cover you if someone gets ill wearing a mask i.e. with Covid measures, and they won’t cover you if you don’t enact Covid measures.

Meaning they won’t cover you anyway.

147772 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #950 of 2331 🔗

Great link thanks. Interesting that conventional dentists are clueless about the negative effects of mouth breathing and that nose breathing is critical for good health, good facial and teeth development when young. All they can do is to put the blame on YOU (a covid diet). Really?

147774 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nessimmersion, 8, #951 of 2331 🔗

This is exactly what I thought when out and about this morning:why aren’t the unions taking a stand?

USDAW; RMT; ASLEF for example.

147814 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to wendyk, 5, #952 of 2331 🔗

Because they’re the ones advocating this shit to ‘protect workers’.

147737 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 8, #953 of 2331 🔗

I want to go into a coma for the next 6 months 😔

147747 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #954 of 2331 🔗

see you in 6 months

147755 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #955 of 2331 🔗

Perhaps 6 years might be safer ?.

147756 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #956 of 2331 🔗

Fair play but it would be wise to allow for extensions…. this looks more likely to be permanent.

147759 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #957 of 2331 🔗

Just watch you don’t vote Democrat

147762 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to mhcp, #958 of 2331 🔗

Is that a new political party?

147768 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Winston Smith, #959 of 2331 🔗

More a joke about votes cast for Democrats in America from people who had died or where unavailable

147828 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #960 of 2331 🔗

they’ll put you in hospital and ventilate you….. so you won’t be coming back out again

147937 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Winston Smith, #961 of 2331 🔗

Hibernation might be safer

147958 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #962 of 2331 🔗

The NHS would switch off your life support to allow your bed to be cleared out for the 2nd wave.

148698 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Ewan Duffy, #963 of 2331 🔗

If there is erm, to be a f’ng second wave, why have the Nightingale hospitals been mothballed?

147744 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 11, #964 of 2331 🔗

If one of the muppets human guinea pigs – that are injected with the experimental vaccine then injected with C19 – how will they know if its the vaccine or the natural immune system (T-cells and stuff) that dealt with the virus?

147764 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Major Panic, 1, #965 of 2331 🔗

Brilliant question! What’s the answer? How do they know with any other vaccine?

147876 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to godowneasy, #966 of 2331 🔗

If I knew the answer I wouldn’t have asked the question

147793 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Major Panic, #967 of 2331 🔗

If nothing else it might just show up how (mainly) harmless this thing is….

Or am I being naive?

147795 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Major Panic, 1, #968 of 2331 🔗

You don’t inject with c19 after the vaccine. You get the vaccine, head out into the world, then they check after a specific time (I don’t know what it is) to see whether you catch it. What I’m struggling with is that there are so many asymptomatics and it could be t cells or antibodies if you have an immune response that it will be very difficult to prove you’ve had covid compared to the control group who have had a men ac vaccine.

148067 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Major Panic, 1, #970 of 2331 🔗

That’s the crazy thing — there isn’t enough virus going around to properly test the efficacy of the vaccine. Rational people would say that proves there is no need for a vaccine, but instead they are doing human challenge trials which have always been considered unethical. In a sick kind of way, I hope they proceed since every attempt at a coronavirus vaccine has resulted in antibody-mediated disease enhancement. The human guinea pigs that signed on for this will become really, really sick and some might die. That’s what has happened historically in animal trials.

148325 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #971 of 2331 🔗

I still feel upset about the two women who developed transverse myelitis in a previous trial. These vaccines are evil. That is someone’s life and health. And the volunteers will not understand the risks.

148710 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Major Panic, #972 of 2331 🔗

I understand that Sars-2, or covid 19, has actually never been isolated and proven, so how can you inject someone with it?

147751 Paul, replying to Paul, 26, #973 of 2331 🔗

My wife has a long term medical condition that means she has to see a specialist consultant at the hospital at least twice a year.
Her last consult had to be done over the phone in April but in July she was told her September appointment would be at the hospital,face to face.
She’s received a letter today cancelling that and saying it will be by telephone instead,the reason being ‘deadly virus pandemic and the need to keep patients and staff safe’.
So that’ll make it a year since she has seen the consultant in the flesh,clap,clap,protect the NHS etc,etc…

147980 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Paul, 3, #974 of 2331 🔗

That’s just disgusting. I have no other words. Sacrifice lives to save lives? Is this the new Orwellian medical model?

147996 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #975 of 2331 🔗

Spot on. It’s manslaughter.
They will pay. Oh yes.

147763 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 35, #976 of 2331 🔗

For the first time in many weeks, I decided to use local transport this morning: badge prominently displayed, greeted by friendly bus driver; no problems.

Only four passengers, all gagged except me; front flip down seats sealed with red ‘out of use’ labels.

Visited nearby Sainsbury’s; friendly lady on greeting desk said my badge was acceptable and to please go in.

Sainsbury’s must have spent a fortune on new barriers; large perspex booths now erected at all tills except the self service ones.

Most staff gagged, posters prominently displayed-the usual guidelines etc., some workers behind screens bare faced-a welcome sight.

No hostility encountered,although many of the shop floor staff looked stressed and uncomfortable.

Walked to local station, ticket office vacant,so I ran to catch the train,which had just pulled in.

When the guard appeared,I offered to pay, but he said no transactions allowed on trains for foreseeable future,and that I should pay on reaching my destination.

He looked exhausted and thanked me for wearing my badge, as it made his job easier.

Reached home station, ticket office vacant, so a free single journey!

What struck me during this short excursion is how very unfair and burdensome this is for front line workers,most of whom earn little; they are constantly having to deal with the extra stresses and strains resulting from all this fear mongering: masked throughout the working day; extra cleaning duties, obliged to tackle difficult customers, worrying about their future prospects and generally having to suck it all up.

Finally I called at the zero waste shop where the couple who own it warned of a rise in panic buying, driven in the main by social media hype.

If those in charge would just cease this endless,pointless, costly and frankly exasperating propaganda, and start to treat us like rational, responsible adults, much of the damage could be ameliorated and life could resume some semblance of normality.

It’s a lovely day here and everyone I saw looked healthy and pleased to be out in the open.

The bodies aren’t piling up in the streets, the plague wagons are nowhere to be seen, but meanwhile the social and economic damage continues to grow.

As to the suspension of essential public health services, need I say more.

147776 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendyk, 6, #977 of 2331 🔗

We are in charge and should not bow to them, when people realise the story is finished

147778 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendyk, 35, #978 of 2331 🔗

I think that mandating face-nappies for shop workers in particular is an incredible slap in the face for them, considering they all worked through the peak of “the pandemic” with no social distancing, no PPE and rubbing shoulders with all the plague carriers on a daily basis. Surely they are the real front line heroes and to force them into mandatory masks is just such a callous disregard for their “service”.

Absolute &*&^%

147780 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Two-Six, 10, #979 of 2331 🔗

Absolutely agree, and see my later reply to Nessimersion: why aren’t the unions doing more to challenge all this?

It’s disgraceful that front line workers are being forced to comply in this way.

147933 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to wendyk, #980 of 2331 🔗

I thought the Unions were efl and safety fanatics -“be careful what you wish for”.

147785 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Two-Six, 6, #981 of 2331 🔗

I’m actually looking forward to going back into a supermarket (M&S) and asking the same (then mask-less) worker who barked at me last month for not wearing one. Send him around the shop looking for things. Might even do it tonight 😎

147804 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Two-Six, 4, #982 of 2331 🔗

Agree with everything you say, but it could help to raise the issue more generally if supermarket workers start complaining about the imposition.

147820 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Two-Six, 4, #983 of 2331 🔗

I think it’s to try and raise the threat level and also an attempt to further shame the non-muzzled. It also raises the possibility of supermarket staff being resentful of those who don’t comply whereas before it was somewhat hypocritical of them to make a fuss when they themselves didn’t have to wear masks.

147946 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Two-Six, #984 of 2331 🔗

Yes where is big business? Why don’t they stand up for their employees?

147769 swedenborg, 1, #985 of 2331 🔗

https://twitter.com/VictimOfMaths/status/1308890847681949707/photo/1

A map of UK showing 19 Sept where the “cases” are occurring.7-day averge.Gives a very good picture of the current spread.

147773 Fruitbat, replying to Fruitbat, 5, #986 of 2331 🔗

Good to see LS finally looking at the HIV/AIDS scandal and the many parallels with what is happening now. I first became aware of the work of the many AIDS dissidents twenty-five years ago and have been an HIV/AIDS sceptic ever since. Until COVID happened I would have confidently stated that HIV/AIDS was the greatest medical fraud of our modern age. It’s essentially the same formula that is being played out now:

(i) the announcement to the world of the discovery of a new virus and the immediate
withdraw of funding for any research looking at alternative causes
(ii) the development of patentable, profit-making test kits with poor specificity causing
‘false positives’
(iii) reclassification of existing disease conditions/symptoms as having a single cause
(the virus)
(iv) iatrogenic (medically induced deaths) caused by the administering of dangerous
drugs and invasive treatments.

Two excellent documentaries on this subject are:

House of Numbers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsT4GrimfLQ&amp ;

Positively False:
https://www.positivelyfalse.org/

Two excellent books are:

Fear of the Invisible – Janine Roberts
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fear-Invisible-Janine-Roberts/dp/0955917727/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=fear+of+the+invisible&qid=1600947739&sr=8-1

Serious Adverse Events – Celia Farber
(sadly out of print currently)
https://www.thetruthbarrier.com/2016/12/08/fake-news-flashback-aids-could-kill-more-people-than-there-are-people-us-gov-us-media-1987/

147835 ▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Fruitbat, 1, #987 of 2331 🔗

Great summary. The testing shenanigans alone is worth a book on its own and has many parallels with where we are now. And also coincidentally who is involved…

147779 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #988 of 2331 🔗

We are going to support everyone who we think should have a job. Sunak statement being summarised by Kate McCann on Sky News.

If the government don’t think your jib is worth saving you are gone. How do they decide which sector? The great reset guides them.

147789 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Basics, 2, #989 of 2331 🔗

They take tax and national insurance off everyone.

147844 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Basics, 4, #990 of 2331 🔗

the final nail in the coffin of the self-employed.

147928 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 1, #991 of 2331 🔗

More like a bottle or a smouldering substance guides them.

147783 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #992 of 2331 🔗

My rambling thoughts for the day have got me thinking about religion. One aspect in particular I think needs addressing in society:

  • Heaven or an afterlife. The belief that there is something better when we die makes it easier to let people go. Without this belief there are many now who cling on to the idea that death is bad and should be avoided at all costs. There needs to be some sort of acceptance that death is a natural part of life.

I am not avocating for religion or that everyone should believe in life after death. The idea that death is not necessarily bad can be derived without organised religion. I just think if people were more accepting of death as a natural part of life we would not get the extreme reactions that we have seen throughout all this.

I’m not a religious person but I do see how certain aspects can be good for people who want/need it in helping them get through life.

147800 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #993 of 2331 🔗

Quite right; I’m a non believer, but the present consumerist, risk averse, rights- driven attitudes are in no small way responsible for the mass compliance and panic,as those in charge know all too well;It makes their nudging much more effective.

Death is part of life; it will get us all sooner or later, so let’s start to be more accepting and develop a dignified sense of personal responsibility, based on autonomy,self respect and basic common sense.

It seems to me that wisdom is a quality sadly lacking in our feverish panicky society. There’s too much noise, especially where the shouty MSM is concerned, too many experts with vested interests and far too much control creep.

Time to grow up.

End of rant.

148706 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to wendyk, 1, #994 of 2331 🔗

Well said !

147806 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #995 of 2331 🔗

This may be a tangent but the way we approach life and death reminds me of Oedipus working out the Riddle of the Sphinx:

Which creature walks on four legs in the morning, two legs in the afternoon and three legs in the evening?

The way that Oedipus explains it shows that we have an arc in life and then we pass. That’s how it is and how it will be.

147810 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #996 of 2331 🔗

One must imagine Sysyphus happy

147954 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #997 of 2331 🔗

At the moment, I would consider death preferable to this new abnormal (I am an atheist).

147990 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #998 of 2331 🔗

People have stopped dying, nowadays they ‘ sadly die’. E.g. ‘ When Queen Victoria sadly died, her son….’ It’s everywhere in conversation, commentary, the news.

148279 ▶▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to bluemoon, #999 of 2331 🔗

Glad you mentioned that one! People “sadly” dying boils my pi$$ too – after all, does anyone “happily” die?

147991 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1000 of 2331 🔗

The sad thing for us sceptical Christians is that most of our co-religionists, and almost all clergy, are full-on zombies who clearly do not believe or practise what they preach.

148273 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #1001 of 2331 🔗

Try to think of it as a learning experience, Annie. 🙂

148333 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to annie, #1002 of 2331 🔗

I’ve been decorating for harvest in church today. Only about 6 people there, half masked. I tried to spread some sceptic views. They agree things are pretty crazy but put up with it.

147784 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 4, #1003 of 2331 🔗

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/501522-covid-restrictions-unscientific-havoc-british/

For those who might not have seen this.

RT is surprisingly useful and one can weed out the naughty naughty Wicked Kremlin propaganda!

147959 ▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 1, #1004 of 2331 🔗

Chances of my RT comment appearing before reading your comment. I agree with you RT does help to get a better picture of events if you keep your weeding gloves on!

147817 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 59, #1007 of 2331 🔗

My personal survival guide for the next 12 months, in no particular order:

  • Abandon the public sphere to the drones and their minor officials if you can
  • All shopping online if you can
  • Forget restaurants or bars, they are miserable now
  • It is all about seeing friends in houses or in open spaces
  • Park out of view of the public road where possible when visiting homes
  • Money saved on going out spend on nicer food and wine if possible
  • Read great books (Lionel Shriver a great contrarian that Sceptics would enjoy)
  • Watch classic movies, there are probably loads you haven’t seen
  • If you must wear a mask (doctor etc.) stab holes in it so you can breathe
  • Keep fit and try to eat some fruit and veg each day
  • Don’t smoke it’s nuts and there is limited health care if something goes wrong
  • Only read news once or twice a day for reasons of sanity
  • Follow freedom-loving politicians (Left or Right) on Twitter
  • Read alternative news outlets (Left or Right) that value freedom
  • Pursue micro-victories – conversions to scepticism, use mask exemptions, break rules where you know you can’t get caught etc.
  • Factor in 12-36 months of this, don’t expect magic bullets. It will get worse before it gets better
  • Take pleasure in the every day
  • Look ahead to local elections that give you a say and think how you will vote
  • Don’t be afraid to support politicians who you may have hated pre-Covid
  • Read these forums but focus on the victories and the stories of actions taken rather than the sad tales of despair (not to detract from those of course)
147819 ▶▶ BWooster, replying to jhfreedom, 11, #1008 of 2331 🔗

Pay cash too if possible

147834 ▶▶ IanE, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1009 of 2331 🔗

Nice ideas, but “Follow freedom-loving politicians (Left or Right) on Twitter” – that’s a pretty thin gruel to search for!

148019 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to IanE, 5, #1010 of 2331 🔗

SPD or Nigel Farage. Plus a few select Tory MPs (pitifully few).

147836 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1011 of 2331 🔗

It feels like it’s going to be a long haul. Agree with all of your suggestions, but I don’t think I’ll be able to give up smoking in this age of stress and madness!

147840 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to jhfreedom, 18, #1012 of 2331 🔗

It’s literally illegal – ie. against the fucking law – in Scotland as of tomorrow to visit people in their homes or host anyone in your own private place of dwelling.

And Sturgeon’s only regret is that she doesn’t have the coin required to shut the pubs, bars, cafes and restaurants again and furlough the workers, because we’re still allowed to meet people (rule of 6) in them.

147866 ▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Mark H, 5, #1013 of 2331 🔗

Legislation is not law until it’s been tried in court. Several steps beforehand including the police considering it grounds for arrest and charge, the CPS considering it worth prosecuting and a judge ruling guilty on the grounds. Even then, an appeal could render it moot.

147955 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark H, 5, #1014 of 2331 🔗

Well if the governmant had passed such a law before it would of stopped the Glencoe Massacre.

My point is welcoming people into your home, even your sworn enemies, was once how Scotland functioned. The clan system.

That element of cultural legacy ought to be being reflected upon by nationalist and others supportive of the ban.

148041 ▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Basics, 8, #1015 of 2331 🔗

Who’d have thought that hundreds of thousands of generations of humans developed a system of social interaction, hospitality and more without being wiped out by an invisible enemy.

It’s almost as if mankind’s entire history is now in the memory hole and 2020 is the first time ever humans have become aware of other people and have immediately determined them to be threats. Like wasps.

149285 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mark H, 1, #1016 of 2331 🔗

All true, but then they didn’t have Bill Gates.

147842 ▶▶ mjr, replying to jhfreedom, 15, #1017 of 2331 🔗

Dont get ill with something other than covid. dont expect to get medical treatment
Clean your teeth thoroughly .. dont expect to get dental treatment

147892 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to mjr, 3, #1018 of 2331 🔗

…and also do some flossing

147865 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #1019 of 2331 🔗

Thank you. That is a brilliant and sane approach.

147891 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #1020 of 2331 🔗

Very good. Local elections in under a year.
I break the rules anyway. If I see a police car outside a shop, I just go to a different one.

147897 ▶▶ Bella, replying to jhfreedom, 13, #1021 of 2331 🔗

I appreciate you’re trying to be helpful but it’s too pessimistic for me. I see a breaking point happening way before then, wouldn’t be surprised if before Christmas. Focussing on the negative just produces more of it and no rebel army gets anywhere with defeatist talk in its ranks. Optimists are going to be far too busy to make stupid posts on one Daily Mail article or rant on Twitter. What about all the people who aren’t thrown off trains for not wearing a mask?

147919 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella, 5, #1022 of 2331 🔗

Thanks Bella, was on the verge of a wobble there.

147951 ▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Bella, 3, #1023 of 2331 🔗

I agree bella that lots of people are not thrown off trains for non mask compliance, the article itself was not the main point of my attention. It is just whilst so many people seem to think that we should all comply to such a stupid diktat, we seem to be swimming against the tide.

147898 ▶▶ petgor, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1024 of 2331 🔗

Let me add for those who have got out of the reading habit or are fed up with TV, log in to Radio Echoes, where there are thousands of Old Time Radio programmes of many and any genre, which can either stream or download for later listening.

147918 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #1025 of 2331 🔗

36 months? I’ll be fucking dead. The stress of it will see me off.

148718 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Nick Rose, #1026 of 2331 🔗

Good god ! 36 months at my age is a lifetime!

147956 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #1027 of 2331 🔗

You’ve pretty much described my life, but I am fortunate to be retired. After months of being depressed and miserable, I’ve accepted that this isn’t going to end anytime soon and must craft a life that is manageable, even if it’s not the life I want or had planned.

148046 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1028 of 2331 🔗

Prepare for the worst but hope for the best. It will probably be 12-18 months rather than 36 months.

148025 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to jhfreedom, 2, #1029 of 2331 🔗

If you wish to avoid Rona, smoking has a preventative effect ( Always amusing watching the cognitive dissonance of Puritans trying to process that one):
https://www.qeios.com/read/Z69O8A.13

148042 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1030 of 2331 🔗

But why smoke to prevent something that almost certainly won’t kill you anyway.

Smoking will still bring on other health problems!

Not to lecture of course, feel free to smoke as long as no one around you affected.

148270 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1031 of 2331 🔗

Smoking will still bring on other health problems!

Is your source for that Matt Handcock, or PHE ?

148078 ▶▶ R G, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1032 of 2331 🔗

I would also say that if you have a gym membership, take advantage of it while you still can. It’s the only commercial space where relative sanity still prevails.

148611 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to jhfreedom, 1, #1033 of 2331 🔗

12-36 months is what worries me. Surely, SURELY people will wake up way before the and start saying no?? This is the hope that is keeping me going.

149287 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #1034 of 2331 🔗

If only!

148979 ▶▶ Lili, replying to jhfreedom, 3, #1035 of 2331 🔗

They WANT all shopping online. Go to outdoors markets and small independents with sensible owners and pay cash, if you can.

147818 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1036 of 2331 🔗

While everyone was focused on Rishi’s latest splurge of our great grandchildren’s tax receipts, this was posted:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/24/new-coronavirus-mutation-could-evolving-get-around-mask-wearing/

Not yet peer-reviewed, but study from Houston, Texas, implying wearing masks and gloves having no effect on transmission of the virus – it has mutated to become more contagious (but not more deadly).

147826 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #1037 of 2331 🔗

didn’t have to mutate much to make masks anymore ineffective

147830 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #1038 of 2331 🔗

Havent worked on the continent where they are worn everywhere, it is more an outward show of obedience and compliance, which the government want everyone to see

147833 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #1039 of 2331 🔗

I mean, elements of truth. But assumption it mutated out of necessity because masks are effective is clearly bullshit.

147860 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Farinances, 6, #1040 of 2331 🔗

They are talismans and that’s it. People here (Thailand) wear them on the chin, wrist, table… even those who wear them on the nose and mouth take them off for politeness to talk to people. And no Corona cases for weeks and weeks. So it must be working. The gods are propitiated.

148034 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1041 of 2331 🔗

We’re in trouble then. If masks are proven not to work, we’ll all be forced to wear Hazmat suits 24/7.

147823 B Boru, replying to B Boru, #1042 of 2331 🔗
147925 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to B Boru, 1, #1043 of 2331 🔗

I get “ This video is restricted. It must be approved for you to view it.”

148050 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to B Boru, 4, #1044 of 2331 🔗

Interestingly, the latest Asda advert is… interesting.

It features a goofy guy IN THE CAR PARK of his local store and a kid being….. goofy. They never go INSIDE the store or include any footage from inside. My takeaway was that they didn’t want the pod sheeple environment inside the store being included in their advertising – for obvious reasons. Yet they are perfectly happy forcing their customers to conform with the madness that they are not willing to represent on screen because it doesn’t sell shit very well. (Also interesting is the price war currently taking place because clearly footfall is DOWN due to masks).

All other supermarket advertising currently features unmasked customers in stores. One even has a gr00vy black woman dancing down the aisles, grinning like a happy person. If she acted like that irl, she’d probably get accosted and beaten up with bags of frozen peas by the mask Karens.

It’s like someone said the other day – the tv is pretending reality is still normal. Noone wears masks on soaps, do they? Why? Because everybody knows this ISN’T normal, and nobody wants their entertainment media to reflect the hideous experience that being in a public space now is.

147824 Steve, replying to Steve, 33, #1045 of 2331 🔗

Well I’ve just completed one of the most stressful and horrible shifts I’ve ever done. Although I didn’t have to wear a mask as I’m exempt (I will have to wear my yellow star, sorry I meant lanyard, though) the whole atmosphere in the store is just oppressive now and even without a mask on I still felt severely distressed and on the verge of a panic attack. Seemed there was less laughing and joking than usual too. Frankly I think spending time around the dead rat on he shop next doors fire escape would be a more pleasant experience than working in the store now.

What I want to know is where are the unions and why aren’t they standing up for the workers who are now faced with such an appalling change in their working conditions?

147827 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Steve, 12, #1046 of 2331 🔗

People need to strike. The country would soon take notice if all the shops were shut.

147848 ▶▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Farinances, 25, #1047 of 2331 🔗

Food processors, shopworkers and delivery drivers were the real heroes through this. It is they who deserved the applause and not the NHS collaborators.

148023 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to DespairSquid, 9, #1048 of 2331 🔗

The people in warehouses I encounter every day have been pretty heroic. By that I mean they just get on with it, they are relaxed and friendly. Few wear masks (they realise manual work and masks don’t mix). They are not afraid to be in physical contact because they have to be every day, and none of them have died. They are sound, basically. And besides the people you’ve mentioned they’re they only ones who’ve done any work worth in a damn in 6 months.

148226 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #1049 of 2331 🔗

Building trade in general is sound too.

But your sweeping last sentence is bollocks.

149113 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, #1050 of 2331 🔗

(Does that mean you’re a builder?

I have builders in atm. They are indeed cool although I went to school with one of them which is proving…..interesting)

149112 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #1051 of 2331 🔗

It always is, John. It always is.

147880 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Steve, 8, #1052 of 2331 🔗

Breathing in Co2 for a shift will not provide for either a healthy mind or a healthy body.7

I made an FoI request to Hancocks dept about the efficacy of masks. The response is “Due to the wide variability in the evidence of what constitutes a face covering, strong evidence of effectiveness in the community setting is difficult to obtain.”

So that’s all right then, face coverings work or not! Other responses based upon PHE’s review is notable by its repeated use of the word “may”.

147899 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to petgor, 4, #1053 of 2331 🔗

They’re dodging your question. I’ve sent my MP an article on anti masks but she never bothered to respond.

148125 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to petgor, 1, #1054 of 2331 🔗

strong evidence of effectiveness in the community setting is difficult to obtain.

Which in plain English means there isn’t any: and they know it.

147893 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve, 3, #1055 of 2331 🔗

I’d hate to be forced to wear a mask especially when you know they are bad for you.

147916 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Steve, 8, #1056 of 2331 🔗

I can’t imagine wearing a muzzle for an 8 hour shift, it must be truly horrible. This was done no doubt as the mask zealots were shouting about the shop workers not having to wear them. Even I will admit that wearing one for a shop round the supermarket isn’t as bad as a full day in one, not that I do however. I would love to know the numbers like me that would browse the shops spending money that they didn’t have, who now don’t venture out because it is such a souless and horrible experience.

148763 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Mrs issedoff, #1057 of 2331 🔗

Fortunately I spent most of the shift driving my van (I was in store for about 1hr), but I was still extremely stressed at the whole thing due to the threat of fines, being challenged and having to justify myself etc. Not good when you’re driving a 3.5 tonne vehicle. I was supposed to wear the things when entering a block of flats or when in the shop. How everyone else coped I don’t know. Everyone was complaining about how bad it is and that they can’t breathe

149120 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Steve, #1058 of 2331 🔗

Is there a way you could ALL just not wear them?

They can’t fire all of you. But of course it would take ALL of you or at least the majority and an accepting still-muzzled population

147938 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Steve, 5, #1059 of 2331 🔗

I completely understand your distress and give you, and everyone who has to work under these conditions, so much credit. I get distressed just seeing people in masks, so can only guess at how distressing it is for you and everyone who must face it every day. The thing I am most thankful for is that we’re retired and don’t have to navigate a horrible work situation. With respect to the unions, I would assume they would have a very hard time, given where public sentiment is, going out on the sceptic limb. It would only happen if a very vocal majority put pressure on them. Are your co-workers all wearing masks? Another way to send a message is if you all claimed exemption and wore lanyards. I wish I had more words of comfort or better ideas.

147987 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve, 4, #1060 of 2331 🔗

Anybody do a risk assessment on forced bathing of your face in a puddle of warm germs for eight hours at a stretch?

148013 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to annie, #1061 of 2331 🔗

How long before lawyers for hire have adverts inviting you to sue for Compo ( gets your dental bills paid at a minimum)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12461990/mask-mouth-dentists-warn-rise-side-effect-damaging-teeth/

148014 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to annie, 3, #1062 of 2331 🔗

Even if they acknowledged the risks to the wearer, they’d still claim we need to sacrifice our own health to protect other people. It’s so insidious. I’ve come to reluctantly realize that no amount of science or rationality will convince these zealots. Maybe if their teeth literally start falling out of their mouth or they start passing out on a regular basis? Even then I’m not sure these crazies would give up on their magical masks.

148534 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Steve, #1063 of 2331 🔗

I thought here was tuff about acceptable level of CO2 in the atmosphere in a working environment, which a worker will presumably be exceeding after a few minutes of wearing a mask.

147829 Mrs issedoff, replying to Mrs issedoff, 12, #1064 of 2331 🔗

Just read an article on the daily vile (DM) about the police throwing a bloke off a train for not wearing a mask. I went through the comments and the vast majority were saying that they were pleased that the police were doing their job and clamping down on non mask wearers!. I give up, I thought that the worms were turning but looking at some of the comments I just despair and think that we are a country full of complete and utter zombie idiots (present company excepted).

147881 ▶▶ DespairSquid, replying to Mrs issedoff, 5, #1065 of 2331 🔗

Ah, as soon as you offer an opportunity for the DM readers to judge someone they can’t resist and forget about their otherwise sceptical stance. #textbookdm

147890 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mrs issedoff, 6, #1066 of 2331 🔗

There are only a few websites available for us sceptics, I reckon the government has an army of trolls who infest the Internet. I cannot believe the stupidity they spout.

147906 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Mrs issedoff, 5, #1067 of 2331 🔗

Daily Heil readers not happy until the exempt are forced to wear a little yellow shape on their clothes when they go shopping

148024 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Mrs issedoff, 4, #1068 of 2331 🔗

I am sure the 77th brigade will be working overtime at the moment. Never forget that this government has already deployed the British military in what they describe themselves as a war – against a civilian population the British People.

148215 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #1069 of 2331 🔗

I was wondering about this the other day – has anyone asked the top army bloke his thoughts on this i.e. using the army in an undeclared war against us ?

147838 PD, replying to PD, 21, #1070 of 2331 🔗

Daughter in Year 11 GCSE year has been sent home from school for sitting near somebody ‘with’ corona.
Two weeks house arrest under penalty of a £10,000 fine.
No way back to school even if she gets a test and the result is negative.

What a fucking joke!
I’ve asked her to walk the dog!

147843 ▶▶ leggy, replying to PD, 13, #1071 of 2331 🔗

It’s a form of group insanity. Surely people cannot believe what they are preaching?

147884 ▶▶▶ Matt Mounsey, replying to leggy, 5, #1072 of 2331 🔗

The problem is that the furlough scheme has made it so that people now work for (or get paid for not working by) the government. So they’ll say what the government tells them to say.

For years I’ve been asking how climate scientists can say that the world is going to end at the end of every decade then repeat it again when their predictions turn out to be false. Then I started asking how epidemiologists could lie in the face of all the evidence.

It’s because they’re being paid to do so. They know not to upset their paymasters.

Now, and for as long as it will last until the Great Reset comes in, the majority of the public will repeat the same lies because they’re being paid to do so.

147934 ▶▶▶▶ D B, replying to Matt Mounsey, 4, #1073 of 2331 🔗

Just a quick rebuttal, my girlfriend is highly sceptic and highly critical of our company for keeping her on furlough the whole time, not everyone on it does buy into it.

148098 ▶▶▶▶▶ Matt Mounsey, replying to D B, #1074 of 2331 🔗

Do you know of the expression “the exception proves the rule”?

And she clearly doesn’t object to it enough to not take the money. Our money.

I’m in pretty bad financial shape at the moment, but I don’t go on benefits out of principle.

147850 ▶▶ mjr, replying to PD, 1, #1075 of 2331 🔗

with corona??? or just a runny nose. . Is the somebody actually ill? or had a positive test? or a positive test in the family? Have you checked with the school for the actual medical justification and proof?

147851 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #1076 of 2331 🔗

and now i have responded to you, do i have to isolate and get tested? Devious things these rona viruses

147960 ▶▶▶ PD, replying to mjr, #1077 of 2331 🔗

Kid she was sat next to in one of her lessons tested ‘positive’.
Hmmmmmm!

147862 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to PD, #1078 of 2331 🔗

Tell her get on a bus and travel around in it all day.

147965 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to PD, 2, #1079 of 2331 🔗

I thought you only had to get tested if you display symptoms. If exposed to a person that tested positive you should social distance. The Government made it clear that schools are at the bottom of the list of getting access to tests.

147839 Matt Mounsey, replying to Matt Mounsey, 5, #1080 of 2331 🔗

Could we see Covid anti-virals before a vaccine?

We’ve had Hydroxychloroquine since the beginning of this debacle. We also have Ivermectin.

 If there’s one thing that makes me realise that this is all planned, it’s that the solution to the problem has been there all along.

147858 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Matt Mounsey, 16, #1081 of 2331 🔗

IT’S NOT ABOUT THE FUCKING VIRUS!!!!

IT’S NOT ABOUT KEEPING US ‘SAFE’!!!!

Sorry, I had to get that off my chest..

Now breathe…….

147863 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Matt Mounsey, 4, #1082 of 2331 🔗

I bet Cillit Bang kills covids

147874 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Two-Six, #1083 of 2331 🔗

Probably 😅 . But I’ll give it a miss thanks!

147943 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Matt Mounsey, 5, #1084 of 2331 🔗

Yes HCQ works but the pharmaceutical companies do not want that to be used – too cheap.

147846 Antonedes, replying to Antonedes, 2, #1085 of 2331 🔗

“Is there a chance Boris might start listening to sceptical scientists – he is reported to have solicited their views at the weekend – or is that just wishful thinking?”

Is this the government preparing to defend a judicial review by showing they have considered rival opinions and made a political judgement? It fits with Simon Dolan’s legal challenge being delayed to allow this ‘consultation’.

147852 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Antonedes, -3, #1086 of 2331 🔗

Also, Tegnell is now having second thoughts about Swedish policy after speaking to Bozo. Although I’m sure that is coincidental.

147927 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1087 of 2331 🔗

Yes. What was said to Tegnell? Clearly nothing said by him has had any impact here, and obviously that was never the point.

148004 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Ovis, 2, #1088 of 2331 🔗

Simon Dolan has just posted this is bollocks on stilts.
Just an attempt by Govt media to sow doubt.

148011 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Ovis, #1089 of 2331 🔗

Maybe Tegnell has been told to get on board with the ‘Great Reset’ agenda. The world economy is obviously going to be completely destroyed, so Sweden might as well get on board with the authoritarianism. Can’t have people not being terrified and distrusting of each other, it just isn’t the ‘new normal’.

148208 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, #1090 of 2331 🔗

I trust you Darryl. 🙂

148205 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ovis, #1091 of 2331 🔗

Maybe they just showed Tegnell what they’d done to Johnson …

147856 Liam, replying to Liam, 11, #1092 of 2331 🔗

My determination to resist gets stronger every day. The day will come.

147910 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Liam, 2, #1093 of 2331 🔗

Tiocfaidh ár lá

147983 ▶▶ annie, replying to Liam, #1094 of 2331 🔗

Daliwch ati, mêt!

147859 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 19, #1095 of 2331 🔗

I guess this will never end until we all say enough is enough, no dead bodies in the street, and have a mask burning instead of an nhs clapping

147871 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #1096 of 2331 🔗

If they start clapping the fxwzing NHS again I may have to take an HGV driving test, in order to plough into them.

147895 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 5, #1097 of 2331 🔗

According to isis the licence isn’t a prerequisite

148195 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, #1098 of 2331 🔗

As if you could get a test currently – ho ho ho. 🙂

147872 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #1099 of 2331 🔗

wow a ritualistic mask bonfire, I would love to see that.

147875 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1100 of 2331 🔗

Roll on the 5th of November!

147883 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to DRW, 4, #1101 of 2331 🔗

Burnin’ Sturgeon; now there’s a thought…..

147903 ▶▶▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to wendyk, 2, #1102 of 2331 🔗

Shite doesn’t burn!

147976 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to B Boru, 1, #1103 of 2331 🔗

There’s always an accelerant, or, Spontaneous FM Combustion!

147913 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Two-Six, 11, #1104 of 2331 🔗

Same here! I just returned to the city for a few days and looked over my terrace to see parents and children walking to school wearing masks. We don’t even have a mandate to wear masks outside (YET!) and these twats are voluntarily wearing masks, as if it’s not enough those poor kids have to wear them all day in school. Makes me want to hurl. Can’t wait to get the hell out of here and back to the country.

147878 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1105 of 2331 🔗

Unfortunately there would be bodies in the street because Bozo will call the army in. It could make Bloody Sunday look like a picnic.

147900 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to leggy, 5, #1106 of 2331 🔗

That would definitely finish Johnson, firing on the people, although a bloke was dragged off the train by transport police and people are congratulating the police. They’ve gone from compliant kneelers to roughing up the travelling public

147882 Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 9, #1107 of 2331 🔗

Reading comments about not believing the polls etc, but am listening to Jeremy Vine, as he appears to be more sceptic than not.

One if today’s ‘talking points’ is about the App – most of the callers / comments (whether deliberately picked or truly representative of the callers) are in favour of the App.

But what really saddens & frightens me were the comments by people who gave totally brought into the Government propaganda about having the App to protect other people and save lives etc etc. They truly believe they are saving people’s lives by using this thing, not that they are being tracked or worse that this the beginning of digital IDs.

This has got a long way to go before an awful lot of people realise they have been had. I fear, unfortunately, it will then be too late & they will just go along with the awful ‘new normal’ & we will be the odd ones out.

In the meantime, off to resurrect my Dad’s Doro!

147930 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 4, #1108 of 2331 🔗

By the time the majority realise they have been conned it will be too late. They will be trapped in the digital prison that is being built day by day with their permission. Sadly, the rest of us will be unable to escape.

147952 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #1109 of 2331 🔗

I don’t think one can conclude too much from that. Anecdotally I think there are fewer people properly bought into the narrative than it may seem, and more people just going along with for an easy life, thinking it will be over soon. If I had tens of thousands of pounds (or maybe hundreds of thousands, not sure how much it costs exactly) I would get together with some professionals and design and conduct a proper survey to get a more accurate picture of attitudes.

148192 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, #1110 of 2331 🔗

I think it would be difficult – the polling industry is too far into bed with the intelligence agencies, politicians, media, and big business. How would one ensure an honest job, rather than what their real (hidden) masters wanted ?

In theory it could be done I guess – would chip in.

148029 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 2, #1111 of 2331 🔗

the radio show’s producer will screen the callers, so even though it’s Joe Public phoning in, if an agenda or narrative is desired they’ll make sure people in support of it get heard.

147887 NickR, replying to NickR, 3, #1112 of 2331 🔗

7 day moving average for deaths per day in English hospitals is not doubling every 7 days. The last few days will inevitably be revised upwards but the trend line looks very manageable.

147940 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to NickR, 1, #1113 of 2331 🔗

Thanks this is great

148008 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to NickR, 2, #1114 of 2331 🔗

as I emailed my MP. I don’t know why they are lying with this doubling every 7 days stuff. Anyone can download the data and show its false

148012 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 6, #1115 of 2331 🔗

witless

148037 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to NickR, #1116 of 2331 🔗

But what about Covid deaths in hospital? Is it possible you can produce a graph for that?

147888 B Boru, #1117 of 2331 🔗

High impact vid everyone should watch! spread and share as always

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Fhn4vaT75pvK/

147904 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 84, #1118 of 2331 🔗

So what am I going to do today? Fuck knows.

I was thinking about going into town to get lunch, poodle about in the shops and buy a few bit and bobs, go and get a milk shake and sit in the high street possibly I might meet somebody I know and have a lovely chat, come back home and perhaps finish fixing a computer before going out to fly my model helicopters at my model club or perhaps go up on a windy hill and fly my gliders.

I could just pop out to the local shop for some snacks and a fizzy drink or go round to the local supermarket and get something nice for tea and have a nice chat with the till ladies.

I might go for a swim.

Perhaps I could go to the pub and have a few ales later or perhaps go to see a band tonight.

I might even plan a trip away to see some really good bands in the campervan in another town, it might be nice to wander about in another town, checking out a few pubs and perhaps having a chat with the locals.

I might even plan a visit to a few museums and some other historic sites, go on a train or even use a bus.

I could even get on a plane and fly up to Scotland to see my brother perhaps at New Year, that might be fun.

***VvvvvvvvvvvvvvvIIIIIIIPPPPPP**********

Oh hang on. I can’t do any of these thing now can I. The bastard government have made all of these things either outright illegal or utterly intolerable.
.
What am I going to do today, sit here and post shit like this on this web site.

147917 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Two-Six, 21, #1119 of 2331 🔗

I feel exactly the same. All my small pleasures have been destroyed.

149281 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Liam, 1, #1120 of 2331 🔗

They’ll not be content with small pleasures, they want a lot more than that.

147920 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Two-Six, 18, #1121 of 2331 🔗

I’ve taken a copy of this so I can show it to my future grandchildren and explain what life used to be like.

147921 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Achilles, 9, #1122 of 2331 🔗

They won’t believe you

149282 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1123 of 2331 🔗

They won’t be here.

147922 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1124 of 2331 🔗

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA best post of the day!

147923 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1125 of 2331 🔗

Welcome to covid club

147936 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1126 of 2331 🔗

Sorry….I think the madness is starting to peak. I have not got to the masturbating stage yet so at least thats a positive!

147942 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1127 of 2331 🔗

Why not form up as a LS shoooting party and head up onto a grouse moor.

147979 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 6, #1128 of 2331 🔗

At least we could all get together for a good grouse.

148060 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Basics, 3, #1129 of 2331 🔗

Not sure I could trust myself with a gun, especially if some mask wearing Antifa show up.

149283 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Basics, 1, #1130 of 2331 🔗

Why not head to Westminster?

147935 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1131 of 2331 🔗

Prof Sir Harry Burns President of British MEDICAL assoc on salmond show RT interview. Said the evidence he has seens shows that the seeding of Scottish carehomes was done by the staff coming and going from carehomes specifically not covid+ patients being placed into carehome.

He also expressed NZ as getting it exactly right in terms of fighting Covid19.

He says seeing people sitting outside pubs in groups of 4leaning in towards each other spreading droplets on to each other is a recipe for disaster and the effects of that are now being seen.

He says we are now seeing elderly infections increase and deaths are rising and will continue to do so. No less than he expected given the measures taken over the summer.

147970 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #1132 of 2331 🔗

He was a co-signatory on Trisha Greenhalgh’s letter (along with the esteemed Devi), so no surprises there!

147977 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 7, #1133 of 2331 🔗

He says a lot.
I say he’s a cretin.
That’s all.

148000 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to annie, 6, #1134 of 2331 🔗

He’s always been a fucking cretin. Darling of the Scottish right-on leftie idiots. Talked in the past about a mysterious “Glasgow factor” causing early deaths in city (ie average of 67 in males). The answer is actually too much booze, fags, deep fried food, no fruit or vegetables, ignorance and violence. The man’s a total fuckwit.

148087 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Basics, 2, #1135 of 2331 🔗

Someone who looks at 4 people sitting together having fun and sees only droplets has a shitty view of life.

147939 Skam, replying to Skam, 8, #1136 of 2331 🔗

Here are a few questions that nobody knows the answers to, despite ‘the science’

How many people are currently infectious?

How many people have symptoms of the virus rather than other respiratory illnesses?

How many test results are picking up dead viral particles from months ago?

What happens when a vaccine is less than 50% effective such as the flu vaccine?

And a bonus question:

How long will it take for enough people to realise what’s actually going on?

147944 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Skam, 2, #1137 of 2331 🔗

Yes, given that this is supposed to be a potentially catastrophic global threat, bodies like the WHO and SAGE seem to have found out nothing useful since it first emerged. They just repeat platitudes and waffle.

I don’t think the government care much about finding the answers to those questions.

147947 End of Tether, replying to End of Tether, 26, #1138 of 2331 🔗

Just had to go to Tesco, as delivery slots are all booked because of panic buyers. I feel like crying. I haven’t once worn a mask in a shop and didn’t on this occasion either but it was very different. There was a Covid guard on the door who asked me if I had a mask. “I’m exempt” I said and walked in. I was the only one in the very busy shop without a mask and worse than that, people kept on scowling at me and swerving round me. I just can’t bear this for another 6 months…..

147966 ▶▶ court, replying to End of Tether, 5, #1139 of 2331 🔗

I haven’t been to a supermarket for 2 months, I book my slots in advance and using Delivery Saver I get availability for the next 4 weeks. I get 2 shops a week, Sunday morning and Wednesday evening so works out at £1 a delivery. Worth every penny to not have to see the drones everywhere.

Interesting to note the Royal Mail will now pick up any post up to ‘medium parcel’ size for 72p. https://send.royalmail.com

148007 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to End of Tether, 7, #1140 of 2331 🔗

I’ve had it every week in my local Morrisons in Scotland, mostly the only one or 1 of a handful unmasked.

Stay strong, if it helps wear earphones and listen to some music or a podcast even laugh or sing.

Just remember we are right and are awake, be yourself.

148859 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to End of Tether, 1, #1141 of 2331 🔗

I noticed a different atmosphere when I went this morning. It’s not suprising. The government briefings have ramped the fear level up to 11 and the sheep are terrified.

147948 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 22, #1142 of 2331 🔗

I’ve already got my alternative Christmas songs sorted for this year:-

“Jingle Bells (your Track & Trace app has a notification for you)”
“Last Christmas (was the last time I was able to visit my mother in her care home)”
“It used to be the most wonderful time of the year”
“Stop the Cavalry (from assaulting pregnant women)”
“I saw Mommy standing within 2 meters of Santa Claus”
“Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer must self-isolate for 10 days”
“All I Want For Christmas is a Vaccine”
“Staying Home For Christmas”

147949 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Achilles, 1, #1143 of 2331 🔗

Superb. Made me laugh, for the first time this week.

147961 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Achilles, 7, #1144 of 2331 🔗

“So here it is, Covid Christmas, everybody’s on their own,
Look to the future now, it’s only just begu-u-un”

Where’s Noddy Holder?

147971 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to wendyk, 2, #1145 of 2331 🔗

His mutton chops are self-isolating.

148244 ▶▶▶ MRG, replying to wendyk, 1, #1146 of 2331 🔗

There was a Porsche [edited by mod] reg “[edited by mod]” in the car Park of Mottram Hall Hotel this afternoon. Could be his Lordship – he lives nearby in Prestbury.

147967 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Achilles, 6, #1147 of 2331 🔗

Very funny! 🙂 How about Cliff’s classic,Muzzle-up and Whine?

147981 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Achilles, 1, #1148 of 2331 🔗

Lonely this Christmas

147993 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Achilles, 1, #1149 of 2331 🔗

Brilliant, well done!

don’t forget it’s beginning to look a lot like a second wave

147950 godowneasy, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1150 of 2331 🔗

So let me try to understand this Jobs Support Scheme. BBC :

“As employers will have to pay a more substantial part of wages than before, and employees will have to be working, it’s aimed only at those businesses and posts that are viable.
So some workers will slip through the gap: the government is keen that those in unsustainable jobs are spurred to think about their next move.”

I assume that businesses that are most affected by the Corona restrictions (hospitality, tourism, arts etc) will be those that are least able to pay their employees. So those types of businesses are mostly to go under, taking their staff with them?

I love the bit about “spurred to think about their next” – yes – when you have been made redundant that’s what you are FORCED do find a job. Problem is now – What job?

Surely the scheme should be re-titled “Viable businesses support scheme (and fuck the rest of em)”.

147985 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to godowneasy, 4, #1151 of 2331 🔗

Also most arts jobs are either self employed or contract work so missed out on furlough the first time around and will probably not be eligible for this new scheme.

148017 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to ambwozere, 3, #1152 of 2331 🔗

I know someone who’d been in a management position in the hospitality industry. They were made redundant and now work as a cleaner in the local high school.

148003 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1153 of 2331 🔗

The government want all workers either paid by the state or on universal credit. Self employment will be no more.

148018 ▶▶ leggy, replying to godowneasy, 1, #1154 of 2331 🔗

Viable? Isn’t that 3/4 of the public sector redundant then?

148054 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to leggy, 1, #1155 of 2331 🔗

Sorry they don’t use the same definitions for words as the rest of us. When they say viable they mean business they don’t want to see destroyed just yet, actual viability has nothing to do with it.

147957 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 20, #1156 of 2331 🔗

Feeling empowered today! Went to the local hardware store and I asked the owner if he knew that he could claim exemption for wearing a mask – he didn’t so I pointed him to the govt website, he also agreed with me when I said the government has overstepped the mark. Then in another place I said the same, they don’t want to wear them, know it’s ridiculous and so do their bosses but apparently the council has employed 10 busibodies (jobsworths) to go round town (Keighley) dishing out fines! Then Sainsbury’s was OK, I was the only non-mask wearer but quite a few members of staff weren’t wearing them and in PC World and Halfords no-one said anything.

147969 ▶▶ annie, replying to Moomin, 4, #1157 of 2331 🔗

Keep up the good work!

147975 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Moomin, 4, #1158 of 2331 🔗

Well done, I was basically the only one in ASDA today. The subservience of our population is frightening.

148001 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Moomin, 2, #1159 of 2331 🔗

The jobsworths can’t dish out fines can they? Only the police can do that.

148021 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Moomin, 5, #1160 of 2331 🔗

Jobsworths cannot dish out fines. Police have the power to fine a person who refuses to wear a mask on the basis that they are being awkward and defiant. But non mask wearers would have to be really trying to get fined when there are so many exemptions at hand. (which you don’t have to spell out to the police anyway).

147962 B Boru, replying to B Boru, 7, #1161 of 2331 🔗

sorry if this has been posted already….Scott Atlas in USA…putting some facts to the nation.

WOW…just WOW!

https://twitter.com/Francis_Hoar/status/1309024254936186881

147989 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to B Boru, 3, #1162 of 2331 🔗

I loved him before he started advising Trump. His credentials and character have been skewered by colleagues and the MSM, which tells us he’s definitely one of us. Let’s hope he can turn the ship around.

147982 William Hand, replying to William Hand, 11, #1163 of 2331 🔗

Ha ha going to have a laugh soon. Discovered how I can wear my buff so that it covers everything, almost my eyes. Put on a pair of dark shades and I look like a bank robber or terrorist. So I shall be going into Newton Abbot at some stage and walk around, if I see a CCTV I’ll look up at it and shake my head. They cannot recognise me. I’ll wander into the bank to check my balance and then into a few other shops to browse and have a laugh at all the looks I’ll get. Might even put my anti midge net over the whole lot as well, all people could see of me then would be blackness. They want masks, I’ll give them masks. Then it will be back home onto Dartmoor, and back to clean fresh air. If I ever fly again I’ll do the same at the airport and through security scanners and see whether the terror squad come out.

147988 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to William Hand, 3, #1164 of 2331 🔗

I love it! Let us know what kind of response you get.

147995 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to William Hand, #1165 of 2331 🔗

Bit slow on the uptake mate lol

148009 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to William Hand, 4, #1166 of 2331 🔗

I am seriously thinking about strapping a sanitary towel under my nose and holding it there with an elastic band the next time I need to go into a shop. I might wear some blue gloves too and perhaps my DIY goggles.

148055 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to William Hand, 3, #1167 of 2331 🔗

I seem to recall someone saying that people wearing face coverings looked like letter boxes and bank robbers, and that this was terrible, but people are free to wear what they want. Now who was that man?

148064 ▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #1168 of 2331 🔗

That man died in April and is never coming back.

148086 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to William Hand, #1169 of 2331 🔗

Nothing will shock these people like a bare face. You will have complied and that’s all they want. They can worry about changing to rules to dictate exactly what you must put on your face later. By complying in any way you have lost a battle.

148121 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to William Hand, #1170 of 2331 🔗

Gait analysis is the current goal. Get someone to shoot you in the foot. 🙂

148266 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to William Hand, #1171 of 2331 🔗

You’ve convinced me to dig out my old desert shammi and goggles.

147992 NonCompliant, replying to NonCompliant, 10, #1172 of 2331 🔗

So all the reports about Sweden back tracking their policy appear to be total bullshit !

The MSM truly are an absolute set of shitbags…..

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1309110853078220806

148002 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NonCompliant, 9, #1173 of 2331 🔗

Well I did say so this morning….

148028 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Carrie, #1174 of 2331 🔗

How many lessons are needed to learn that they are lying? it’s all lies!

This is not a fucking picnic. they are at war with each and every one of us and using military grade applied psychology to mess with our heads!

148035 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Carrie, #1175 of 2331 🔗

Carrie, can you help with a translation from about 30 mins apparently:

https://twitter.com/Expressen/status/1309100305615851525

148066 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #1176 of 2331 🔗

What do you want to know? If you are asking about what he said to the UK government he answered that question in English..

148079 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Carrie, #1177 of 2331 🔗

What he said about not locking down at the end of that briefing if possible.

148129 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1178 of 2331 🔗

The last questions in the interview that were in Swedish were not about locking down.. One was about the likelihood of a second wave and the other was about distinguishing a cold from CV 19..

But did you listen to the very end where he was asked about the reliability of PCR tests? He reckons the increase in cases the UK is *real* and not a result of false positives…interesting. Especially as he refused to talk earlier about what was said in his chat with the UK government…

148095 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 1, #1179 of 2331 🔗

What do you want to know? If you are asking about what he said to the UK government he answered that question in English..

I would suspect that the real answer to how he feels about that was revealed by Giesecke in the Irish Covid committee meeting yesterday, several things he said appeared to be a dig at the UK government, especially his closing words, see here at 2h 16 mins – ‘beware of undemocratic decisions….’
The whole meeting is very interesting, but you can easily scroll through and just listen to Giesecke’s bits of input. He also mentions earlier in the meeting that ‘people are not stupid’ and not to use coercion….

148744 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Carrie, 1, #1180 of 2331 🔗

Carrie , I love your tenacity, well done !

147997 Now More Than Ever, 17, #1181 of 2331 🔗

Although not in Richard Drax’s constituency, I wrote to him to encourage him to keep fighting. I wasn’t expecting a reply, but only six hours later here it is. I should feel encouraged, and I do a bit, but I think the task is getting harder for him.

Dear [Now More Than Ever]
Thank you for your kind and supportive email.
These are unprecedented times and I do have sympathy with the Government.
BUT, we now know a lot more about this virus and draconian restrictions are not going to solve the problem.
For, when we re-emerge from any lock-down (albeit local or national), the virus will be there to meet us.
What then?
So, let’s get on with our lives, safeguard the vulnerable as best we can, and rise to this challenge as a nation, rather than ruining her.

I and more and more colleagues are doing our level best to persuade the Government to change tack.
Thank you again for your support.
It is much appreciated.
Warm regards
Richard

147999 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 2, #1182 of 2331 🔗

Maybe only slightly off topic (unfortunately).

Scotland seems to be leading the way in imposing more and more draconian (actually anti-human) measures on its population.

(Sturgeon seems like a person who is acting with total impunity and without a care/fear of the consequences for herself, her people or her country – similar to J Arden in New Zealand. Who/what is ‘inspiring’ them? Who’s got their backs?)

From the four minute mark in the video below they are discussing the ‘Named Person’ scheme which almost became law in Scotland.

https://youtu.be/yJM1xc20JvQ

It involved the state appointing a ‘guardian’/’third parent’ for every child born in Scotland (the ‘Named Person’). This would have been mandatory.

The Named Person would have the right to intervene if they felt the child was at ‘risk’.

According to one government explanation of the scheme, all children were like flowers and the adults (including their parents) in their lives were gardeners – and the Named Person would be the ‘Chief Gardener’.

Thankfully, due to opposition, this did not become law. However, according to a Scottish Minister the concept/scheme has not be scrapped:

https://thirdforcenews.org.uk/tfn-news/swinney-named-person-has-not-been-scrapped

In the current climate it is not difficult to see how these kind of ‘laws’ could used to ‘correct’ any parents who were not bringing up their children ‘properly’.

Crazy and very worrying times. We need to stay strong.

148015 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Humanity First, 1, #1183 of 2331 🔗

That’s not to mention the hate crime law that basically makes any ‘offensive’ speech criminal (No clear definition of how this will be defined appears to be at the ‘victims’ discretion).

In all honesty though my fellow Scots deserve all we get. We are an incredibly left leaning populace who believe all problems can be solved by the nanny state.

148027 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1184 of 2331 🔗

yes and “Stirring up” hate is now an offence too. What ever that means.

148049 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1185 of 2331 🔗

Well the governments in all of our nations are guilty of that surely!

148062 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Humanity First, 3, #1186 of 2331 🔗

The main issue we have up here with all this is that there is barely a hint of there being an opposition party. The other parties occasionally ask an awkward question at FMQs but that’s about it. The SNP are pretty much left to do whatever they like rest of the time.

148005 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 7, #1187 of 2331 🔗

The government have managed to get the majority of this country to mask up and socially distance, despite limited scientific support without a shot being fired.

what hope is there???

148031 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to JHuntz, 3, #1188 of 2331 🔗

It’s also been accomplished after a long list of scandals and demonstrable ineptitude by the various establishment elite that have people from the full range of the political gamut sceptical of the efficacy of government.
I stopped trusting that shower years ago (irrespective of the colour of the rosette), it amazes me anyone still does.

148137 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #1189 of 2331 🔗

Problem is not voting doesn’t help, someone still gets in, and maybe not the least worst!

The way people seem to be going, they’ll be voting in the party that offers the most severe and punishing policies.

Maybe this virus is making people insane, maybe thats its most insidious symptom. Its not Zombie nation its idiot nation.

148038 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to JHuntz, 8, #1190 of 2331 🔗

I think maybe the threatened mass house arrest of thousands of students over Christmas might tip their families over the edge,as for those pratts who support this ridiculous idea, they are not even worth thinking about, the sooner they brick themselves up in their own prisons, the better.

148077 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1191 of 2331 🔗

Even my compliant parents think that is a load of bollocks. My dad is in charge of the Covid marshalls so he said to me he’ll tell them where to stick it when I’m making my ‘great escape’ from uni.

148085 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to nocheesegromit, 1, #1192 of 2331 🔗

Go for it.

148214 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1193 of 2331 🔗

This idea is surely the most surreal yet. It’s total shite. It’s unworkable. It’s been dreamt up by morons.

148039 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to JHuntz, 2, #1194 of 2331 🔗

and cower at home while everything they had is stripped from them.

148006 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1195 of 2331 🔗

Re: mask exemption: like when you get to 70 and have to apply for a new driving licence.
You could be deaf and blind with 1 leg, all you have to do is declare that you are fit to drive,no compulsory medical or eye test whatsoever.
With face nappy exemption, just get the badges from Amazon or Ebay, I did, mine cost less than £3.

148026 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1196 of 2331 🔗

I printed mine off the UK Gov website for free. Did have to buy some more laminator pouches though 🙂

148045 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to leggy, #1197 of 2331 🔗

Small price.
Do you know if they sell the exemption certificates and badges at the £1 shops yet ?

148022 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1198 of 2331 🔗

I am wondering how long it is going to be before a supermarket chain comes out with the idea to use “we enforce everyone being masked” as a marketing ploy.

I know the disability law says this is illegal, but I just get the feeling that law means little now.

148030 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1199 of 2331 🔗

Said it before. Masks are freedom. Straight from the Ministry.

148032 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #1200 of 2331 🔗

I am sure the exemptions will get tightened up anyway.

148143 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #1201 of 2331 🔗

Well no one will be able to get an official exemption without consulting a doctor– wait – there are no appointments to be had! So no one can get an exemption… except the elite of course..

148762 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 1, #1202 of 2331 🔗

I fear this will happen. As I avoid doctors, and never had a history of anxiety before, i doubt they will give me an attest to “prove” i suffer anxiety when wearing a mask.
A court in Bavaria (very stringent rules there) just made a ruling making it more difficult for doctors to issue attests. (just saw the headline, not aware of details, but bad news)

148081 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #1203 of 2331 🔗

Just a thought. What happens if they enforce this and someone faints, cracks their head open on the floor and sustains injuries. Is the supermarket liable?

I’ve mentioned this before, I have fainted once and it’s scary because you don’t just crumble and fall delicately in a heap. I sustained quite nasty injuries and I am not going through that again for anyone.

148122 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to kh1485, 3, #1204 of 2331 🔗

Good point. Anyone on here know what the legal position is? Can a supermarket be sued if you get injured as a direct consequence of a face mask policy? Or would you have to bring an action vs the government?

That’s probable why they’ve got the self exemptions in place.

148358 ▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Alan P, #1205 of 2331 🔗

I am not an expert in this area but I would expect that everything would hinge on the supermarket’s risk assessment. I think it is very unlikely that they have one. In which case they would have a tough case to defend.

I did write to the Headmaster’s Conference – the independent schools body – a few weeks ago to point out that they may be liable if a pupil had an accident caused by mask wearing (eg fainting and falling down stairs) no reply has been received.

148696 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Basileus, 1, #1206 of 2331 🔗

I’m actually going to ask at work tomorrow if the company has done a risk assessment on mask wearing. They should have done, we’re being required to wear ppe after all. I doubt they’ve even considered it. (Although they clearly knew it was coming as the new signage was ready for today as were uniform masks for the staff).

148929 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Alan P, #1207 of 2331 🔗

It would be very difficult to succeed with a claim in negligence as you’d have to prove that your injury was a foreseeable risk from the supermarket’s viewpoint. You might win if it was known that fainting was a well established risk but you’d need expert evidence of that. If you were stopped at the entrance and told “put your mask on” and said “but it causes breathing difficulties”, but the employee insists, you then comply and then faint, you might be onto something. Since there is no precedent that I am aware of someone would have to bring a claim and if the court accepted it this would, or could, make new law. I don’t think there is any relevant statute law or regulation covering this type of novel situation. I don’t see how you could actually sue the government unless by judicial review, which brings us back to Simon Dolan’s case.

148212 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to kh1485, 2, #1208 of 2331 🔗

That’s why I don’t wear a mask. Every time I fall I break a bone.

148141 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1209 of 2331 🔗

Better if another chain says the opposite, see how many people would rather shop mask-free, given the choice..

148162 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Carrie, 1, #1210 of 2331 🔗

That would be great but sadly the government would crack down hard on any supermarket that actually stated that openly. I think the best we can hope for is supermarkets turning a blind eye and not enforcing the mask edict.

148701 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Carrie, #1211 of 2331 🔗

Stores face a £10000 fine for failing to enforce mask wearing. That’s what my boss said anyway when I was explaining that I’m exempt.

148036 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1212 of 2331 🔗

Could we start a campaign to get the PM et al tried under this:

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/misconduct-public-office

Some snippets:

“The offence is, in essence, one of abuse of the power or responsibilities of the office held. “

“Examples of behaviour that have in the past fallen within the offence include:

  • wilful excesses of official authority;
  • ‘malicious’ exercises of official authority;
  • wilful neglect of a public duty;
  • intentional infliction of bodily harm, imprisonment, or other injury upon a person;
  • frauds and deceits”.

The culpability ‘… must be of such a degree that the misconduct impugned is calculated to injure the public interest so as to call for condemnation and punishment’ “



148043 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1213 of 2331 🔗

They are clearly guilty. But I would suggest they are also guilty of crimes against humanity.

148047 ▶▶ anon, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1214 of 2331 🔗

What about inciting terror?

148061 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to anon, 2, #1215 of 2331 🔗

Not just inciting they are doing the terrorising.

148152 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #1216 of 2331 🔗

I agree. Terrorists and murderers.

But how to get it into court for some kind of remedy or punishment? Simon Dolan’s Judicial Review case could be a start. I wonder if it will ever be heard?

148090 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1217 of 2331 🔗

In an earlier thread, I wondered whether we could,as a group, approach Jonathan Sumption to ask his advice ,with the aim of bringing a class action .

What do others think?

Are there any lawyers here who could advise?

148224 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to wendyk, 5, #1218 of 2331 🔗

As a retired litigation solicitor I would think that the existing law does not provide an easy answer. The potential remedies are civil and criminal.

Under civil you need a “cause of action” meaning a legal peg on which to hang your claim. This could mean e.g. clinical negligence, a claim against a health authority for damages for negligence following the cancellation of a life saving operation which results in death. The claim would be brought by the family of the deceased. Multiple claims could be brought together in a class action but this means private individuals would have to come together to pool their evidence and share the substantial costs (crowd fund?). I don’t see this as particularly promising and apart from other considerations it doesn’t put Johnson and Hancock in the dock where they belong, as the Defendant would be the local health authority.

In the criminal sphere you could bring a private prosecution for manslaughter. Again private individuals would have to be involved to provide evidence of the death of their loved one, death certificate, plus you’d need medical evidence to prove that e.g. the cancelled operation would have been successful in prolonging life. The defendants could be Johnson and Hancock but you’d need to prove that they were pulling the strings that directly caused the death in question. The standard of proof is “beyond any reasonable doubt” and it would be a jury trial. The DPP can take over a private prosecution and drop it, and would do so I expect as the establishment can be expected to close ranks.

Misfeasance in public office might be a more promising route but that too would not be straightforward and I don’t know anything about that. I think it’s to stop obvious corruption, bribe taking etc. A claim that the cabal has acted unconstitutionally may be possible but that is really what Simon Dolan’s Judicial review claim is about (plus he relies on elements of the Human Rights Act which arguably the government has infringed). If he wins you would expect in normal times that the government would fall, but these are not normal times, which is the problem. It is difficult to see a legal remedy. Until now our system has operated on the basis that if you don’t like what the government is doing you lobby your MP and use your vote when the time comes. Now we seem to have a dictatorship with no effective opposition in parliament, and our vote is unlikely to mean anything.

I think we are facing a dystopian future unless enough MPs vote to overturn the Corona legislation.

148276 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to charleyfarley, 1, #1219 of 2331 🔗

Thank you for this; it seems there is no easy way out of this madness.

148145 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1220 of 2331 🔗

I would love to see it happen but I suspect it would be very difficult unless we could either “turn” Vallance and Whitty and they said they were forced to say what they have said – seems unrealistic to me – or discover that – I can’t even bring myself to speak their names – have not followed the advice of SAGE – again that seems unlikely.

I think the truth will out in a few weeks when it becomes apparent that there is no second wave and that any increased mortality is due to seasonal factors and is no worse on average than previous years. What happens then is anyone’s guess.

148257 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to charleyfarley, 1, #1221 of 2331 🔗

What happens then is anyone’s guess.

They change the narrative, just like they made all the previous changes.

148040 Caramel, replying to Caramel, 4, #1222 of 2331 🔗

Dr Anders Tegnell is advising the UK. Hopefully they will learn something from him!

148052 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Caramel, 1, #1223 of 2331 🔗

Is he? How do we know?

148069 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1225 of 2331 🔗

To what exempt so people think BJ isn’t asking for advice beyond SAGE and do we think it will continue?

148105 ▶▶ TheOriginalBlackPudding, replying to Caramel, 3, #1226 of 2331 🔗

Of course it could just be window-dressing. Same as inviting Henegan et al to give evidence. We’ve no way of knowing they are even listening to them, but govt are making sure we know they have ‘consulted’ them so they can’t be accused of ignoring wider opinions.
Or in the case of Henegan particularly, it might be even more cynical: a case of bringing him into the tent rather than having him outside and passing water inwards i.e to neuter him.

148136 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to TheOriginalBlackPudding, 2, #1227 of 2331 🔗

What with the earlier reports of a Swedish lockdown, and then Simon Dolan’s twitter announcement that it was not true, I don’t know who to believe anymore. Also thought CH was a bit lame. I would really like to know whether the slight rise in deaths, ICU treatment and hospital admissions are for older people with underlying conditions? Does anyone know?
I feel like giving up the fight. Does anybody want to live like this?

148139 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Caramel, 3, #1228 of 2331 🔗

They seem to have taken no notice of what he said. Tegnell visited them *before* Boris’s latest round of restrictions..

148057 MDH, replying to MDH, 23, #1229 of 2331 🔗

Just getting a few things off my chest. Got an email from the head of (Labour) Lambeth Council, saying that while Labour supports the government’s latest restrictions, they don’t go far enough. I can’t be bothered to respond and ask what he suggests would suffice.

I’m too busy trying to oppose the council’s road closures which will involve a three-quarter-of-a-mile detour for me to get back to my house if I deign to drive anywhere. This, apparently, is “temporary” and because of Covid. It is, of course, utter bollox.

It was announced on Twitter – residents only got the written confirmation on Tuesday. The closures come into force next Monday. With the mask clampdown (anyone else notice the supermarkets are now silent?), being surrounded by roadblocks, and winter approaching, I’m close to despair.

Oh, and did I mention my mum wastes away in a care home, unable to see or hear, and with dementia. My last telephone call to her had me listening to her raving wildly. Memories are made of this…

Never forget. Never forgive.

148076 ▶▶ Panda, replying to MDH, 10, #1230 of 2331 🔗

So sorry to hear about your mum. I can’t begin to imagine how tough that must be.

We will certainly not forget and one day we can hold these crooks to account for what they’ve done.

Keep fighting.

148130 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to MDH, 4, #1231 of 2331 🔗

I am so sorry to hear about your mum.

Here is another crime against everything that is decent and marks us out as sentient beings.

The people ruling us are subhuman and must be made to pay for their crimes.

148178 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to MDH, 3, #1232 of 2331 🔗

The phone encounters with your mum sound incredibly distressing- for you both. I’m so sorry. As you say – unforgivable .

148058 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1233 of 2331 🔗

Might write to these,see if they can put a case together:

https://trialinternational.org/topics-post/crimes-against-humanity/

This is what they say about crimes against humanity:

“Unlike other human rights violations, war crimes do not engage State responsibility but individual criminal responsibility. This means that individuals can be tried and found personally responsible for these crimes.

Prohibited acts include:

  • Murder
  • Extermination
  • Enslavement – this one covered by lockdown
  • Deportation or forcible transfer of population
  • Imprisonment – this one covered by the no visits to care homes, families
  • Torture
  • Sexual violence
  • Persecution against an identifiable group – this one covered by the residents of care homes, vulnerable
  • Enforced disappearance of persons
  • The crime of apartheid
  • Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health” – this one covered by all the psychological problems, mental health problems, NHS shutdown,a nd so on and so on

Who’s will to give them a written statement of their experiences during all this nonsense if required?

148070 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1234 of 2331 🔗

Bozo said he would take full responsibility I seem to recall – let him have it!

148185 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1235 of 2331 🔗

Exactly, but where are all the silent human rights lawyers, how can we not have heard from a single one.

148382 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Awkward Git, #1236 of 2331 🔗

Persecution against non-mask wearers

148063 Panda, replying to Panda, 41, #1237 of 2331 🔗

I wish I could be more optimistic but I have some predictions that I’m pretty sure will come to pass in the next few months.

1 – mandatory mask wearing in all public settings. We know it’s absolute madness, but the majority of the public will do it and are actively asking for it to happen.

2 – anyone with exemptions to mask wearing will be legally required to produce proof (they will amend the disability act 2010) upon request. It’s the only way it can really be enforceable by the police, hence very few fines being issued so far.

3 – shops will start making track and trace app a formal condition of entry. In the fullness of time, same will probably happen so they can check if you have had the vaccine or not.

4 – employers will be legally entitled to sack people that haven’t consented to be vaccinated.

I’m afraid that I can’t agree with Toby that this situation is down to stupidity rather than malevolence. I happen to be a police officer and this has all the classic hallmarks of a criminal conspiracy (albeit obviously a much larger conspiracy then I’ve ever dealt with!). They’ve coordinated their strategies with many other nations across the world. They’ve pulled out all the stops to use propaganda and social coercion techniques from the start and coordinated this with other countries. They’ve deliberately twisted data to fit their needs and, fundamentally, they’ve been dishonest throughout.

Instinct tells me that this may have something to do with the forthcoming US presidential election,as, let’s face it, Trump has caused a lot of damage to the globalist cause and I don’t think his tenure was in the plan. What they are doing now though is surely overkill to achieve that?

What I continue to find the most frustrating element of all is how susceptible the general public is to propaganda. Look how easy it’s been for our government to convince 75% of the population that this farce needs to continue!

Anyway, enough of my ramblings. Thanks to each and every one of you that contributes to this site. It does restore a piece of my sanity to know that the entire world hasn’t gone mad! Hopefully one day we will be able to look back and laugh at our predictions!

148074 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Panda, 7, #1238 of 2331 🔗

This is what really scares me – if this is the case how on earth can we win?

148083 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Panda, 15, #1239 of 2331 🔗

Well that’ll be me indoors then for the foreseeable future. I will NOT wear a mask. Fuck em.

148097 ▶▶▶ Panda, replying to thedarkhorse, 9, #1240 of 2331 🔗

I agree the fuck em sentiment, but they still win because they are controlling you if you’re forced to stay inside against your will.

148106 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Panda, 9, #1241 of 2331 🔗

I share your pessimism, but whilst there is no seeming end to this almost self-inflicted madness, I do think the majority of people will only put up with the masks, distancing, rule of six, etc. for a limited period. How long that will be I can’t guess, but from speaking and listening to others there is a small frisson of dissent beginning to manifest itself.

chin up and keep smiling!

148113 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Panda, 5, #1242 of 2331 🔗

Think it’s called prison??

Exactly what the globalists want, imprison people and they act like prisoners i.e. fight back and cause trouble this then shows the plebs who are on the side of the globalists that they are in control which the leads to more Draconian rules.

Please have a listen to yesterday’s Richie Allen show and the interview with Mark Windows .

This is the long term plan but it’s happened to quickly i.e. covid used as the trigger for it has caught them out. The powers are un-prepared hence why we are locked down to give more time and keep us distracted.

148094 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Panda, #1243 of 2331 🔗

They would also need to amend the Mental Capacity Act. They would have to indemnify all health care professionals against Assault and Battery charges as to perform an intervention without consent is assault and battery. The exception is if the person is under a section 2 or 3 of the Mental Health Act. They would also have to modify the laws that created the GMC, NMC and HCPC as they would have to modify their fitness to practice rules.

148102 ▶▶▶ Panda, replying to p02099003, 2, #1244 of 2331 🔗

I hope you’re right. I think what you’re written about assault and battery could be possible, but it’s likely to be highly debatable in court and I’m not sure we would win that point. They can and will change all these laws if they need to. Their emergency powers weren’t even debated and I wouldn’t imagine the extension to the coronavirus act powers will be either. Like I say, I hope you’re correct and I’m wrong.

148108 ▶▶▶ Jo, replying to p02099003, 1, #1245 of 2331 🔗

Anyone detained under the Mental Health Act can be treated without their consent (that’s a lot more than s2 and 3.)
There wouldn’t be the capacity to detain everyone – all they need to do is make a new law to say that in a pandemic where many lives are at risk (I know!) then it should be mandatory for everyone to have the vaccine in the interests of everyone’s health.

148109 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Panda, 11, #1246 of 2331 🔗

Goebbels once said if you can terrify people you can get them to do anything.

The mask thing is beyond depressing, and adjusting the exemption part even more so.

Why on EARTH are we not a majority in our views?

148115 ▶▶ godowneasy, replying to Panda, 4, #1247 of 2331 🔗

I agree with what you say. As regards the level of co-ordination across countries, it’s quite remarkable how similar the approaches are with a few exceptions. Although the details across countries may look a little different, when you boil it down, it’s much the same. It’s also interesting how the language is co-ordinated, “tipping point”, “the next two weeks are crucial” and so on. My view is that this co-ordination is being organised at a level higher than national governments. The W.H.O. is an obvious “influencer” here. Their level of control is probably much bigger than any of us realises.

148180 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to godowneasy, 3, #1248 of 2331 🔗

Blaggers making it up as they go along. Looking off stage for their lines. I’m waiting for one JUST ONE world leader to grab this nonsense by the scruff of the neck and row their own boat. When is the US election again?

148302 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to godowneasy, #1249 of 2331 🔗

Would explain why whitty has such a prominent role as per that photo

148886 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to godowneasy, #1250 of 2331 🔗

On your last point people say “we’re going to have global government” but in effect we already have it.

148218 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Panda, 6, #1251 of 2331 🔗

Re masks, the guidance (or law, whatever) says you are exempt from wearing a mask:
“to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others”
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#exemptions
Since “the Science” seems clear that wearing a mask will do you a measure of harm, that’s good enough for me (and the rest of the population if they wish) to claim an exemption.
A decent lawyer would tear the prosecution to shreds in any court case for non-payment of any fine, so the whole thing is smoke and mirrors.
I have had no problem with going bare-faced and never actually needed to show the exemption card.

148238 ▶▶▶ Panda, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #1252 of 2331 🔗

You’re absolutely right that it won’t stand up in court. I fear though that they once again rely on the fact that the vast majority of people will pay the fines rather than face a court hearing. It will be enough to make 99% of people do it and that is all they need.

149047 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to BTLnewbie, #1253 of 2331 🔗

The good thing is, that as long as only a few people have that intelligence and spirit, they will probably let us/them get away with the current setup.
If the rebels increase in numbers visibly, which could be likely after an introduction of a general mandate for the outside, the politicians will either have to be kept in check by a revolt, or they will change the law as described by the policeman here.

148351 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Panda, #1254 of 2331 🔗

If you’re a police officer can you tell us what the real attitude is in the ranks? All we get is images of police beating up on protestors and people not wearing masks or (earlier) buying the wrong things from supermarkets as if they enjoy it, yet at other times are sparse on the ground as when KH’s cafe in Essex got broken into and they weren’t interested but they were very happy to chastise her when she helped an old lady out of compassion because someone had dobbed her in for ‘breaking the rules’.

148375 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Panda, 2, #1255 of 2331 🔗

Hi panda, I was very interested to se you speak about a criminal conspiracy, that is my opinion too. However this would mean all our governments are essentially in on it

Have you researched 9/11? Another criminal conspiracy. https://www.ae911truth.org/

I am afraid these things are easy for governments that have total control of the media to get away with. I only am sceptic because of personal experiences that made me aware of injustice.

Most people these days are comfortable and cannot comprehend that the govt. would lie, murder and cheat.

148393 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Panda, #1256 of 2331 🔗

Well these are the same people who passed a resolution in Parliament last year, that there was a climate emergency. So what do you expect?

149054 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Panda, 1, #1257 of 2331 🔗

The absolutely only way that this could still be a non-criminal conspiracy is, if they knew of something they can’t tell us yet, but want to prepare us for, e.g. an asteroid about to hit Earth, aliens landing soon, or huge volcanic eruptions bring upon us.

148068 Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, 6, #1258 of 2331 🔗

Statement from Government’s chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSmqxm8eMnk

148135 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sir Patrick Vaccine, #1259 of 2331 🔗

For a moment I thought that was going to be real..

148072 JHuntz, 8, #1260 of 2331 🔗

In honour of the Christmas songs below I thought I would write a COVID Christmas song:-

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer
Had a very sniffly nose
And if you ever saw it
You might even say it was a cold
All of the other reindeer
Used to laugh and call him COVID
They never let poor Rudolph
Join in any social distanced games
Then one foggy Christmas Eve
Santa came to say
“Rudolph, with your nose so sniffly
Won’t you isolate tonight?”
Then how the reindeer loved him
As they shouted out with glee
“Rudolph the COVID free Reindeer
You’ll go down in history”

148073 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 12, #1261 of 2331 🔗

I know this probably doesn’t mean much to many people, but I have now had emails from several people who are involved at committee level with little groups and social activities that I belong to. All have been forced to close their activity down since March.
It seems that all these groups have decided it will be impossible to meet again until next March. There’s a definite view that we are all bogged down for another six months at least.

148114 ▶▶ William Hand, replying to thedarkhorse, 11, #1262 of 2331 🔗

I’ve given up now on Bridge, dancing and skittles. Prob. never play them again unless there is a massive fightback. I’m serious. This is all about culture change on a massive scale. So glad that most of my life is now behind me. It was good, really good!

149184 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to William Hand, #1263 of 2331 🔗

Try BridgeBaseOnline, Will.

148164 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to thedarkhorse, 8, #1264 of 2331 🔗

It does mean a lot, and to a lot of people! Social groups, hobby groups, special interest groups, fund raising groups, young people and children’s groups, amateur sports teams and many more, all have been buggered about by the ever changing rules and regulations.

These groups are the backbone of communities, large and small, run by residents often, or belonging to nation wide associations. They give interest and focus to all age groups, across all of society.

The organisers are now confused and are giving up, and this is tragic. Another crime to lay at the door of this uncaring and incompetent government.

148687 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to bluemoon, #1265 of 2331 🔗

Now, now don’t be defeatist.

People will find ways round this.

Most people haven’t realised what is really going on.

But whatever Gates, the socially dysfunctional IT enthusiast, thinks, who is finally creating the world HE always wanted to live in, people cannot be cut off from each other and it is natural for normal people to rebel.

Try a bit of the Who at isle of Wight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EJdcFbTJUo&ab_channel=starmelts

148082 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 10, #1266 of 2331 🔗

I have a feeling my job in travel will not be seen as ‘viable’.

148091 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Sarigan, 8, #1267 of 2331 🔗

Travel is what I work to do – if we can’t see the world I dont want to be in it any more. So sorry for you.

148099 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, 9, #1268 of 2331 🔗

I feel your pain, Mrs Doubting lost her job in April, with no sign of getting another job.

“Our” government are wrecking the economy, they could care less about whether people have a job or not, their task & only priority is to implement change.

The things being done by the chancellor are to avert peoples eyes from the big picture.

Sunak has already said during this press statement, that the current situation will last “at least six months”, Johnson a couple of days ago was saying up to six months.

148107 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #1269 of 2331 🔗

I picked up on that too. It was certainly up 6 months previously. Hopefully more and more countries will open up, laugh at us and change will be forced.

148128 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1270 of 2331 🔗

We can only keep the pressure up, keep talking to doubters, get them onsite, as Vernon Coleman says, we can and will win this war.

148150 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1271 of 2331 🔗

Not sure if anyone has raised this – so many comments lately – but seems gov’t are targeting anything which amounts to enjoyment – holidays, pubs, eating out etc but can still go to work (or school) and then go home & stay there! Guess we will do anything to get back to normal?

148163 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1272 of 2331 🔗

Viable jobs means those that fit in with the new green great reset utopia that is planned so no mass tourism, no oil, no gas, no internal combustion engines, no private vehicle ownership, no hospitality, very little manufacturing as “essential” goods only, no luxuries and so on is my guess so me out of 2 jobs as they are non-viable.

148088 Awkward Git, 5, #1273 of 2331 🔗

Contact details for the International Criminal Court where you end information to to start an investigation:

Submit information
If you have information on alleged crimes, communications and claims can be submitted to the Office of the Prosecutor:
Mail: Information and Evidence Unit, Office of the Prosecutor, Post Office Box 19519, 2500 CM The Hague, The Netherlands

Email: otp.informationdesk@icc-cpi.int

Fax: +31 70 515 8555

148100 anon, replying to anon, 1, #1274 of 2331 🔗
148126 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to anon, 1, #1275 of 2331 🔗

33 is a magik number, don’t you know.

148127 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to anon, 2, #1276 of 2331 🔗

That Magic number again so something must be planned.

148104 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 9, #1277 of 2331 🔗

Most ridiculous Covid statement I’ve read this week.

Mrs Hopkins gets the Radio Times every week. I never read it because it has pro Covid articles and features about various celebs who relate how they’re coping with ‘the virus’. ‘Another one on the black list’ said Mrs H. ‘Who’s that’ I replied. ‘Celia Imrie’ she retorted, ‘always liked her but now that she’s swanning around in Nice and “getting very cross when she sees people who aren’t wearing masks” that’s it for me—stupid woman!’

But a programme on ITV called : ‘London Zoo–an extraordinary year.’ in a feature article had the statement: big cats have been susceptible to the coronavirus in some cases: Is this what has been ailing Asiatic lioness Indi?

Yes I can see the problem. The lions have not been adhering to the two meter rule. Nor have they been wearing masks. It’s not sufficient for the keepers to maintain all the mindless rules and guidelines the lions should too—for the sake of us all!

If you ever get to London Zoo –assuming it ever opens again–keep your distance from Indi the lioness, no doubt by then she’ll have become a ‘super spreader’.

148239 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1278 of 2331 🔗

Domestic cats have tested positive for the virus and they have not been required to self isolate.

148315 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #1279 of 2331 🔗

They probably have been required but have ignored it because they have more sense than people.

148631 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #1280 of 2331 🔗

Can I shoot them now, when the leprous vermin come into my garden to shit in the veg patch? That would make the whole Covid experience worthwhile…

148624 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1281 of 2331 🔗

I would pay money to watch someone put a mask on a lion, and its reaction…

148111 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #1282 of 2331 🔗

Sir Patrick Vallance said thus last Monday:-

>>>”you can see that by mid-October if that continued, you would end up with something like 50,000 cases in the middle of October per day. 50,000 cases per day would be expected to lead a month later, so the middle of November say, to 200 plus deaths per day”<<<

Can anyone explain how he arrived at that 200 figure?

The highest number of cases for a single day was on April 10th when 7,860 was recorded. Eleven days later was recorded the highest number of deaths in a single day – 1,160.

So, 200 wasn’t arrived at going by what happened in April.

200 actually seems a low figure to come up with!

Is anyone able to divine his reasoning?

148116 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #1283 of 2331 🔗

Has he gone, after withholding his personal interest in SmithclineGlaxo

148119 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Ned of the Hills, 7, #1284 of 2331 🔗

The virus has attenuated…oops…. I mean err long covi….no, that’s not the one. I’ll have to get back to you on that

148123 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ned of the Hills, 12, #1285 of 2331 🔗

He was confusing infections with his share holding value in GSK.

148278 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #1286 of 2331 🔗

Better treatment, younger ages, resp viruses tend to zap the very vulnerable early on ‘dry tinder’, April deaths not really covid. The numbers are all bollocks. They are just saying what they like and msm and sheeple lap it up.

148112 Dan Clarke, 8, #1287 of 2331 🔗

Can’t believe Johnson and the Covid Gang are still swanning around as if things are going as planned, every media now seems to be heaping piles of (!) on them, well maybe not the BBC. But as a few have said WHAT IS THE END GAME.

148118 Kelly deacons, replying to Kelly deacons, 24, #1288 of 2331 🔗

Yesterday I was so angry with it all.Fumed ,smoked and drank all night.
Strangely,this morning I was laughing to myself at the mask nonsense of it all….perhaps hysteria?
Anyway,I made myself laugh so much,I decided to go to Asda,,didn’t want anything,but fancied a dust up with a covid Marshall,just to amuse myself.No Marshall,nothing.never mind.
At the check out,for the first time,cashier said where s your mask.I said in a haughty disgusted tone,*I beg your pardon*?,like, is this cashier mad?he asked again,I said in a superior scathing tone,*I am exempt*and furthermore,he should not be challenging anyone without a mask.He apologised and was so grovelling I felt sorry for him.I said to him,good,just as long as you know.
I am resolved to take the fight to them,they are on the back foot…….not us!

148140 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to Kelly deacons, 7, #1289 of 2331 🔗

I get the sentiment. Not his fault he is just an automaton. The ones to worry about are the fellow shoppers when they get haughty. A combination of pig ignorance and poor manners makes for some very unpleasant experiences.

148166 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #1290 of 2331 🔗

You could ask them how they dispose of their virus ridden bio-hazard when they remove it, incinerate it surely.

If they touch it, its compromised, if they remove it its compromised and they can’t put it back on.

How will this work in a restaurant when you sit down? How do you remove your mask without touching it? How many spares do you have for trips to toilet, or even when you leave.

148271 ▶▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #1291 of 2331 🔗

I agree. However,he seemed keen enough to get at me before he knew I would not be bullied. Just following orders not good enough.

148176 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Kelly deacons, 10, #1292 of 2331 🔗

I was refused entry at Asda today, because I didn’t have an exemption card/whatever. Explained all the facts, no joy. Two of em on door, the girl was polite, but the lad was surly and even told me “Go home”. Showed them the extract from Gov guidance that I had printed out, not interested unless I had ‘exemption thing’. I’ll be phoning the manager when I’ve calmed down.

148196 ▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #1293 of 2331 🔗

Remind the manager of the Disability Discrimination Act and the fines that can be imposed.

148221 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Thinkaboutit, 5, #1294 of 2331 🔗

I will, I have to be careful because I’m not disabled and wouldn’t want to be disrespectful to those that are, but it’s certainly worth mentioning in a round about way.

148258 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1295 of 2331 🔗

As I read it the facemask exemption process estblishes a new disability, the disability of not being able to wear a facemask. So if wearing a facemask is too much for you and might set you off on a psychotic episode then you are disabled and eligible for exemption.

148502 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Steve Martindale, #1296 of 2331 🔗

Rang them earlier, “Due to heavy demand, we cannot connect your call…” Yeah, right. I’ll drop a letter or email in. Can’t be arsed, really, but it has to be done. On a brighter note, I detoured to Lidl, and got my frozen peas cheaper! Fancy BirdsEye, too. Ain’t life grand.

148342 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1297 of 2331 🔗

But you would qualify under the harm and/or psychological harm exemptions legitimately as mask wearing affects you mentally plus all of us on here know the dangers of wearing them to both your physical nd mental health.

Put in complaint to them anyway.

148792 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Thinkaboutit, #1298 of 2331 🔗

None of these door staff are trained on exemption protocols.

149106 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, #1299 of 2331 🔗

I’m yet to lie about having asthma or something but man, I will if I have to. Past caring. May try phobophobia again on someone. See if it works.
Man that was hilarious.

148124 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #1300 of 2331 🔗

Watching Rishi’s press conference, and some excellent questions from the financial/economics journos. If anyone thinks Mr Rishi is the answer, they are certainly asking the wrong question. He looks nice, speaks nice, and is quite nice, I suspect, but he has no more of a clue as to what is going on than any of the other minor talents in the Cabinet.

148147 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #1301 of 2331 🔗

Something I wonder about!

Did Sajid Javid know this was coming? Is that why he quit?

Would love to hear an honest answer from him about that! Oh wait, he’s a politician!

148159 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Kev, 5, #1302 of 2331 🔗

I think he walked away because he was not happy to be little more than the financial PR arm for Boris, Cummings et al.

148269 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Kev, #1303 of 2331 🔗

He quit because he was given an ultimatum that he had to replace all his advisors by ones approved by Cummings
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sajid-javid-offers-a-parting-shot-in-resignation-statement

148201 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1304 of 2331 🔗

What I don’t understand about Sunak is why, with all his millions, he can’t afford trousers that come down to his shoes. Makes him look like a schoolboy.

148132 D B, replying to D B, 20, #1305 of 2331 🔗

Playing 5-a-side tonight (with 9 other people from outside my household) and my girlfriend and her dad asked if I was going for a pint afterwards.

I said yes of course, there is a Wetherspoons nearby so we’re going for one after.
GF’s Dad: “You might need the new NHS app then to get in”
Me: “I won’t go then, simple as that”
GF: “You’re such an old man”
Me: “Why would you want the govt to be able to arbitrarily assign you to lockdown because some sheep got a positive test after being there”
GF’s Dad: “It’s not much of a hardship to download is it”
GF: “Yeah you don’t have to share location all the time”
Me: “Guess I just have different views about my liberty than you two, you’re both sceptical and critical of the government but you follow all of their new rules blindly, it’s part of the problem.”

148134 ▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to D B, 6, #1306 of 2331 🔗

You can get them to take your details manually (say no phone) and just give incorrect information.

148148 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to jhfreedom, 7, #1307 of 2331 🔗

Yes, hopefully the media catch wind that Alexander Johnson has been out and about all over South and Central London, funnily enough all the same eateries and pubs I’ve been going to.

148543 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to D B, #1308 of 2331 🔗

Eric Hitchmo (from The Office – the w*nking claw scene) is my favourite…

148200 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #1309 of 2331 🔗

Yes,my dad was Elvis Presley when he was in Spoons yesterday !.

148151 ▶▶ Liam, replying to D B, 9, #1310 of 2331 🔗

If Adolf Hitler gets the sniffles then my local is going to be busy calling Mickey Mouse, Josef Stalin, Spike Milligan and Marilyn Monroe.

148153 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Liam, 2, #1311 of 2331 🔗

Hahaha what a group of drinking partners!

148157 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to D B, 6, #1312 of 2331 🔗

The new rules on table service and masks come in tonight. I’ve a feeling I’ll be barred by 8pm.

148158 ▶▶ Mark, replying to D B, 8, #1313 of 2331 🔗

Me: “Why would you want the govt to be able to arbitrarily assign you to lockdown because some sheep got a positive test after being there ””

That’s probably your best argument to press with them, right there. A lot of people don’t care about abstract issues like threats to liberty, blind obedience, etc, but if they understand that they are opening themselves up to a real risk being selectively locked down based on others’ behaviour (or simple false results), that might get through.

Iirc, the new rules will have provision for fines for breaching lockdown conditions imposed as a result of T&T warnings.

148183 ▶▶▶ D B, replying to Mark, 2, #1314 of 2331 🔗

Yeah I saw that too, I won’t be downloading the app and I’m obviously “exempt” from wearing a mask – I’ve had the govt. image on my phone for a while but not had to use it yet. I think I will probably from now.

148207 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to D B, 1, #1315 of 2331 🔗

Good for you.

148311 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to D B, #1316 of 2331 🔗

Sounds like it’s time to get a new bird 😉

148146 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 25, #1317 of 2331 🔗

After reading about the ASDA gulag this morning on here, I decided to go and investigate for myself. OH and I have been shopping bare-faced there for months. No-one challenged us today or even gave us a second glance, as has been the case throughout. It was virtually empty anyway for such a big store.

We got chatting to the lovely lady on Scan and Go, She was masked up for the first time today, so we sympathised with her. She absolutely hates it. Some of the staff had bought their own visors but the management had said that they could only wear them with masks. One of their colleagues has walked out this morning. She is 65 and has worked there for 30 years but refuses to wear a mask all day. Our lady knew all about the bacteria and mold problems with masks from a friend who is a nurse. I suggested that ASDA certainly won’t have done a risk assessment on this.

At this point another young member of staff joined us. She had her mask on her arm as she says she just can’t breathe while wearing it. Of course we told her about exemptions and the government website. She was telling us that a friend had problems with her trachea as a result of wearing a mask and someone else she knew was in hospital with pleurisy.

Neither of them knew about the fines which could be imposed under the Equality Act of 2010 for challenging anyone with an exemption or refusing them entry. Where are ASDA management in all this?

Also, can we now have a campaign to make all MPs and members of the House of Lords wear masks while they are in the chambers? They should only be allowed to remove them if they are speaking. Let’s see how long that lasts.

148160 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 15, #1318 of 2331 🔗

Perhaps all MPs should have to wear them all day – no matter what the setting – as a mark (mask?) of conviction and honour.

They might be a bit less sanguine about nodding through bullshit then.

148175 ▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to RickH, 8, #1319 of 2331 🔗

We need to make the images of MPs not wearing masks/social distancing go viral as I think this will help to reveal the hypocrisy and BS in these rules. I would imagine a good part of the population would be furious at this no matter who they voted for considering the very low trust in politicians.

148894 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to RickH, #1320 of 2331 🔗

Of course they should have to wear them when they’re speaking! Just like the poor dental hygienist I saw this week who tried to talk to me with a respirator on. Can you imagine spending your whole day with that on your face? Horrifying.

MPs should have to at least do that. Later, they can try sleeping on the streets like so many of their constituents will end up doing.

148161 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Margaret, 9, #1321 of 2331 🔗

They should only be allowed to remove them if they are speaking

Nope, make them leave them on even when speaking. Although TBF most of them probably like a bit of S&M so are used to a mask

148165 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Margaret, 9, #1322 of 2331 🔗

There needs to be a mass revolt in hospitality and retail against this. Use the law in their favour and claim they’re all exempt.

148169 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to nocheesegromit, 4, #1323 of 2331 🔗

Oh yes. 😉

148179 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 4, #1324 of 2331 🔗

I wouldn’t mind if the same sort of f.ers didn’t bang on about ‘politics’ and ‘politicians’ – as if they knew anything or really cared..

148194 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Margaret, 5, #1325 of 2331 🔗

It needs the totally useless and supine unions to actually stand up for their members for once.They are quick enough to collect the membership dues but never do anything at all to help workers,my wife can attest to that.

148308 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to Margaret, 2, #1326 of 2331 🔗

the management will be congregated over at Baphomet’s place bowed and chanting in their robes like the rest of them

148149 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 12, #1327 of 2331 🔗

750,000 have already lost their jobs, Sunak.

He was asked if he knows what the expected loss of jobs is, he says he does not know.

He was asked if if his department had done any modelling so see how what they are doing would affect unemployment, he said they had not done any such modelling.

From what Sunak was saying they are planning to have less people in work and many of those jobs paying less than they did before March.

If people were living hand to mouth before March, they are going to be screwed going forward.

148173 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #1328 of 2331 🔗

You’d think that it was an instant cause for negligence. We’re undertaking an enormous social engineering project with no consideration of the consequences.

148198 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cicatriz, 11, #1329 of 2331 🔗

I hate them all with a vengeance. I just want them dead!

148262 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1330 of 2331 🔗

I’m still sticking to my 20% unemployment for next Spring prediction.
Yes, 20%.

When I said this to my friend the other day she spat out her drink.
But I stand by it, honestly. I think it’s gonna be that bad. (Especially now people are effectively on UBI for doing half their ordinary jobs…. it’s not sustainable, companies will do it for as long as they have to to qualify for the grant or whatever, then get rid).

148300 ▶▶▶ B Boru, replying to Farinances, 1, #1331 of 2331 🔗

I think you under estimate personally!

148637 ▶▶▶▶ Richard, replying to B Boru, 2, #1332 of 2331 🔗

Sadly I think you are right – in every aspect the local and national tax take is shrinking and for those working in the public sector the day of reckoning has be coming. Just think about business rates for example – all those businesses either failing or halving office space – income must be going through the floor

148154 RickH, 6, #1333 of 2331 🔗

Worth mentioning in passing that, looking at all-cause mortality, the pattern of rising deaths from this point in the year is totally normal. Sticking a random ‘Covid’ label each additional death doesn’t alter that fact.

Doh!

148155 DRW, replying to DRW, 13, #1334 of 2331 🔗

Just when it seems like you’ve had your worst day, you get another one. Anyone else getting that too?

148184 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DRW, 17, #1335 of 2331 🔗

I have been off work this week my depression has come back with force, I had done really well since March, but it has hit me now. Masks are a physiological issue for me, at work last week I found it upsetting to see everyone masked.

I though I would get away by taking Monday off trying to get some sleep and be fit for work Tuesday, I do not feel much more positive than I did on Monday. I will try next Monday.
After six months of going through the routing, home work home work etc etc.

Events and organisations I normally get involved with have locked up since March.

148193 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #1336 of 2331 🔗

I get the same reaction seeing masked people too. Try and stay strong, it’s not easy I know. 😒

148217 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #1337 of 2331 🔗

I hardly see masked people these days, having gone almost full recluse. But it’s still so painful to know what’s happening.

148227 ▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to DRW, 3, #1338 of 2331 🔗

I see masked people

https://youtu.be/Roweg-c1qmU

148885 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to DRW, #1339 of 2331 🔗

I’m with you. I take the bus to my allotment. Once I come back, I lock myself in my flat alone until the next day. When I get the bus, I struggle not to scream at the masked people. Happily the buses I take are almost empty.

148281 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1340 of 2331 🔗

You’re not alone. I physiologically can’t tolerate a mask for more than 5 minutes and become anxious and angry seeing other people masked up, especially when they don’t need to be. I’ve stayed away from the city but had to come back for a few days, and first thing I saw parents walking their kids to school with all of them masked up outside and we don’t even have to wear them outside (yet!). Each trip to the city sets back my mental health…so much so we are listing our place here and hoping to sell before Lockdown 2.0. I wish I had words of wisdom or helpful advice, but all I can say is there are a lot of us who feel the same way.

148377 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, #1341 of 2331 🔗

Yes. Though not with those who believe in the great reset, I’m returning to normal asap

148167 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1342 of 2331 🔗

Booked to visit my university’s library tomorrow (you can’t just turn up and find a seat anymore). Says I need to complete the T&T form on the day of my visit but the link doesn’t work. Lol.

148172 ▶▶ DRW, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1343 of 2331 🔗

I refuse to engage with mine at all, besides the absolute mininum needed to pass my degree.

148332 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to DRW, 1, #1344 of 2331 🔗

Try looking on a site like this for the books you need:

https://archive.org/details/downbelowstation00caro/page/n5/mode/2up

You sign up and borrow the book and read it online.

There are a few others out there as well.

148168 leggy, replying to leggy, 19, #1345 of 2331 🔗

Sunak:

Our economy is now likely to undergo a more permanent adjustment. The sources of our economic growth and the kinds of jobs we create will adapt and evolve to the new normal. And our plan needs to adapt and evolve in response .’

There we go then. Desirable jobs only. Great reset at work.

148171 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to leggy, 7, #1346 of 2331 🔗

In plain sight.

148190 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1347 of 2331 🔗

Reset?

148232 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to CGL, 4, #1348 of 2331 🔗

The “Great Reset” has been out in the open for months.

148450 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to CGL, #1349 of 2331 🔗

See WEF the orginator of the term. Mind you don’t trip over the extraordinary chilling accents over at the World Economic Forum.

148182 ▶▶ CGL, replying to leggy, 9, #1350 of 2331 🔗

Who the hell are they to decide what is a desirable job????

148186 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to leggy, 12, #1351 of 2331 🔗

I will bollock the next person to use the phrase ‘new normal’.

148435 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to nocheesegromit, #1352 of 2331 🔗

Debollock them you mean?

148188 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to leggy, 7, #1353 of 2331 🔗

If anyone doesn’t think this wasnt manufactured is delusional.

I hope Bonzo and his power crazed fckwits’ livers wither!

148236 ▶▶ JHuntz, replying to leggy, 3, #1354 of 2331 🔗

Thanks for noticing this Leggy. The way they throw these phrases in like ‘new normal’ with such consistency it cannot be an accident. I’m surprised he didn’t substitute adjustment for reset obviously they are not emboldened enough yet.

148392 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to JHuntz, #1355 of 2331 🔗

Won’t be long. Newspeak gradually creeping in.

148291 ▶▶ B Boru, replying to leggy, 2, #1356 of 2331 🔗

I think that is perhaps the most honest statement I have heard any of theinner circle initiates say for months!

He’s telling us what they are going to do. Bear in mind everything that has been brought ut into the open recently and there you have it!

Orwellian translation:

Jack Boot. Stamping on your head. Forever.

148374 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to leggy, 3, #1357 of 2331 🔗

Now that has worried me, I actually feel sick to the stomach – this annihilates any speculation that all this is down to incompetence ..
‘adapt and evolve to the new normal,’ and this from Sunak not some DM headline- that whole ghastly sentence screams no going back, what we should have heard were reference to temporary measures.

148170 Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, 50, #1358 of 2331 🔗

Yesterday, I had lunch in a pub with a friend. My friend went to the bar and was asking the barman what the new mask rules would be. The barman said “you have to wear a mask to enter the pub, when at your table you can remove the mask but need to replace it to leave your seat”.

A fury overcame me (not an unusual occurrence recently) and approaching the bar I stated very loudly “what a very clever virus this must be, what a load of utter wank, masks don’t work anyway, have you seen anyone vaping through a mask? and was continuing with this rant until my friend dragged me away.

Was sat down and momentarily mollified by alcohol when I spotted an elderly couple, masked up and shuffling past. That set me off again, “those poor buggers, can hardly walk and having their breathing restricted by masks, it’ll probably finish them off”.

I’m finding it increasingly difficult to keep quiet, my friend will probably be too ashamed to lunch with me again. I don’t care because I’m not colluding with this insanity.

148197 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #1359 of 2331 🔗

Not the barman’s fault or within his control, save your justified anger for the guilty.

148203 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 9, #1360 of 2331 🔗

It’s ok, he was laughing. I wasn’t having a go at him, just the rules.

148268 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 5, #1361 of 2331 🔗

I disagree. If you comply with these rules, your are responsible.

148204 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Laura Suckling, 17, #1362 of 2331 🔗

I’m the same. I have my trigger points, when I hear: “it’s the new normal/what can you do?/ we’re all in this together/well, it looks like summer’s over/are things back to normal for you now?/you haven’t got your full menu back, that’s not very good/you’ve lost three months’ takings, you’ll just have to work harder”

And tomorrow, no doubt, I will be treated to the Business ‘Improvement’ District chairwoman coming into my shop to offer helpful ‘advice’. My response probably won’t be pretty.

148939 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 4, #1363 of 2331 🔗

“The new normal” sets me off every time

We can’t every allow families being separated by law to become normal. Not to mention everything else.
Ultimately we can’t allow fear to become normal. People who live in a constant state of fear (or stress) tend to become very ill.

148211 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Laura Suckling, 34, #1364 of 2331 🔗

I feel you. I’m now at the same level of frustration and anger. I have been going to the office every single day from March until now, together with the team I manage. (key worker, but an office job). Most of the people in my company are working from home and think we are crazy and have a dead wish. I have tried a couple of times to introduce any of the real science in conversation, but to no avail.

I will be going to the office every day,not wear a mask on public transport or anywhere and will continue to challenge the group think and argue with people until they fucking drag me away.

In the last 6 months they took everything away that I loved (organized sports, going to watch football, traveling)and that was keeping my mental health in check. I suffer from Complex PTSD ( 2 tours of duty ,combat )I have never felt so low that I feel now, there is just no hope in sight ,no end game, no return to normal.
I said to my wife that the only thing that is keeping me from ending it all is my family the fact I just can’t let the bastards win.

What will happen in 6 months, who knows.

148230 ▶▶▶ JHuntz, replying to Thomas_E, 5, #1365 of 2331 🔗

that’s the motivation for me. I won’t let the evil bastards win. At least we know what we are fighting against.

148245 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to JHuntz, 19, #1366 of 2331 🔗

I was talking to old army mate of mine..He is a full sceptic and has been hit hard by this ( his business is struggling) He said to me with a downcast voice, that sometimes he wishes we were back in Afghanistan. At least we knew who the enemy was, the people shooting at us..Here we know who the enemy are, but they are the people in government and we voted for them..Jesus wept..

148875 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #1367 of 2331 🔗

I had cancer in 2007. That was easier to deal with than this.

148998 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Thomas_E, 1, #1368 of 2331 🔗

Thomas, we need to form some sort of Rebel Alliance. Army chaps like yourself are going to be crucial to helping get us out of this mess if Parliament doesn’t get a grip. You need to give us some tips.

149298 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Thomas_E, #1369 of 2331 🔗

In Afghanistan the enemy was the UK government, just as it is now.

148234 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Thomas_E, 11, #1370 of 2331 🔗

Oh God Thomas I wish I could offer words of comfort but we are all in this fckin nightmare together and cannot escape.

I watched a short video of an old lady in a care home her son was talking to her via an Internet site and she was deeply destressed that she hadn’t seen the family for such a long time. I was crying for her with such hatred welling up I truky could kill Johnson and Hancock with my bare hands!

148304 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #1371 of 2331 🔗

You’ll have to join the queue wanting to tear them apart.

149301 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 1, #1372 of 2331 🔗

That queue is going to get very long.

148362 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #1373 of 2331 🔗

There’s a queue…

148801 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1374 of 2331 🔗

Where? I want to join!!!

148301 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Thomas_E, 3, #1375 of 2331 🔗

Don’t give in. Never, never.

148216 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Laura Suckling, 18, #1376 of 2331 🔗

I went for my last pint as a free Englishman on Tuesday afternoon. That’s it now; I think you can stll use the mask exemption, and Wethy’s are going to have waiters for if you -ahem- forget your phone, but it’s just too much crap. And that’s before we get to Police or Council busy bodies trawling the pubs checking up. I want to go to a pub, not a combination of a hospital and a prison. Thanks Bunter, thanks a lot.

148240 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1377 of 2331 🔗

That’s the trouble, Sam, a lot of people seem to like this “Non life”

148260 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #1378 of 2331 🔗

I’m going out for a meal tonight,the trouble is I am really fired up and angry,I think the slightest bit of aggro and I am going to lose it,I’m not proud to say that but it is honestly how I feel.I don’t expect trouble from the staff,where we go they think it is all bollocks,but I just know some sanctimonious ,self-important clown of a customer is going to say something.
The restaurant we go to has been absolutely normal with no Covid bullshit at all,the very last place we have left where sanity has remained in place ,everything else has been taken away,but I’m sure they will have to bow to the pressure and go ‘covid secure’.

149310 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Paul, #1379 of 2331 🔗

Went out last night to the nearby ‘spoons, all fairly normal and the bar closed around eleven thirty. Tonight I visited a small local pub and on entry was immediately castigated for being mask free, I explained I was exempt and joined my mate at his table. The barmaid brought the drinks over, but was chuntering away behind her mask, I didn’t ask why.

We knew the place was to be cleared by ten, but were still more than a little surprised when last orders were called at nine, which we were told was the landlady’s idea. It was though, quite a relief to go home early, as the pub was cold and miserable. Staying out of pubs and restaurants, while this madness lasts, seems like a good idea.

148367 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1380 of 2331 🔗

The Fat Dictator. Sort of Billy Bunter meets Thomas the Tank Engine. Just not as nice.

148223 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Laura Suckling, 4, #1381 of 2331 🔗

I’m expecting to be barred from my local this evening.

148233 ▶▶ JPF, replying to Laura Suckling, 10, #1382 of 2331 🔗

We all need to push it, e.g. walk into the pub without a mask and sit down, then when challenged say “I forgot”. We also need to be prepared for the worst consequences eg being told to leave the pub, but to be a freedom fighter you have to be prepared for sacrifices.

148293 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to JPF, 5, #1383 of 2331 🔗

I’m not going to claim I’ve forgotten anything and I’m not going to claim an exemption. I’m just going to refuse.

148235 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Laura Suckling, 18, #1384 of 2331 🔗

Yes, Laura, I almost had a go at a couple of coppers (Gestapo) who were harassing a bloke who admittedly was a bit merry, but it was the sight of them, all of about 25, masked up ( of course) acting like a couple of extras from Line of duty.
My wife saved me from being arrested by dragging me away
Normally in this sizable town, you would see a copper about twice a year; where do they come from?
By the way ; I’m in my 70’s,hardly young and foolish but I can think for myself not like a lot of my generation who when told:Jump,they ask “How high?”

148242 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Laura Suckling, 7, #1385 of 2331 🔗

laura i’ll come for lunch with you and both of us can have a rant!! 🙂

148810 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #1386 of 2331 🔗

I feel exactly the same, it is bloody difficult to be ” stoic in adversity”

149293 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Laura Suckling, -1, #1387 of 2331 🔗

Under the new rules you won’t want to go out. Tried it tonight, never again. Pubs can rot.

148174 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 18, #1388 of 2331 🔗

Mr Rishi’s ‘mini budget’ is being slated by both Ed Conway and Ian King on Sky. Both very good commentators in my view. I have never seen Ed Conway look and speak in such a downbeat manner. Ian King referenced Rishi’s ‘back of a fag packet’ analysis.

If any Tory MPs are checking in – a completely new strategy is needed NOW. The country will be seeing mass redundancies before the new schemes come into place on 1 November.

148440 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1389 of 2331 🔗

I see nothing that tells me mass redundencies isnt the plan. The government via sunak said in as many words your job might not be one we think worth saving. They are having a clear out of employment in sectors that does not fit their planned reset.

Or it’s just incompetence.

148187 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 13, #1390 of 2331 🔗

Only jobs that are necessary to the government reset policy its seems, the rest on basics survival allowance, and many are the ones, applauding the government!. No vision at all.

148199 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Dan Clarke, 13, #1391 of 2331 🔗

It’s beginning to look a lot like Communism.

148210 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 5, #1392 of 2331 🔗

… or fascism – or simply a right wing military dictatorship.

Sorry – your prejudice is showing.Totalitarianism is what it is.

148213 ▶▶▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to RickH, 8, #1393 of 2331 🔗

It’s all two cheeks of the same arse to me, but yes totalitarianism by whatever brand we want to call it.

148246 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 4, #1394 of 2331 🔗

Don’t get triggered by the label. It’s the same thing.

148256 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Farinances, 2, #1395 of 2331 🔗

I’m triggered by mis-labeling : that’s the point.

In the end – as said – it’s just totalitarianism, which comes in 57 flavours whatever the label says.

148368 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 2, #1396 of 2331 🔗

It’s not a mis-labling when either label works. It’s you taking issue with the label being used 😉 Would you have written ‘or communism’ if he’d used the word ‘fascism’?

Doubt it.

148219 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to MizakeTheMizan, 7, #1397 of 2331 🔗

…Everywhere you go;
Take a look in the five and ten glistening once again
With candy canes and silver lanes aglow [ subject to rationing ].
It’s beginning to look a lot like communism
Toys in every* store
But the prettiest sight to see is the holly Covid marshall that will be
[Knocking] On your own front door.

*By every, we mean absolutely no shops anywhere. Apart from those that serve the central committee.

148354 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to MizakeTheMizan, #1398 of 2331 🔗

Chinese Communism. Lockdowns came from there

148191 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 19, #1399 of 2331 🔗

FFS why has YouTube taken the Planet Normal Torygraph with S Gupta down.

This is happening more and more now. Freddie Sayers’s interview the other day with Graham Brady was basically shadow banned (still ‘Unlisted’ with no appearance on Unherd channel page, and so getting minimal views).

There’s absolutely no point in even unshouty forms of SM now if all they are is tools of indoctrination. Seems like the future is the past – websites like this one and old school forums/Discord.

148220 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Farinances, 29, #1400 of 2331 🔗

Apparently people like her or Carl Heneghan are “conspiracy theorists.” After all Heneghan is only the director of the Centre for Evidence Based Medicine at the world’s top-ranked university. I mean, what the hell would he know?

148222 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Farinances, 17, #1401 of 2331 🔗

The Internet is being purged of anything not ‘conforming ‘ to the government line. I still think people havent realised the extent of this Reset. This isn’t something that just happened, it’s been planned for a while. I also reckon Brexit will not happen, it will be BRINO. We will be sold out, our freedoms trashed. Its depressing but unless someone steps forward and destroys these bastards our lives will be a living hell.

148231 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Farinances, 5, #1402 of 2331 🔗

It’s also impossible to find Noel Gallagher ‘s podcast

148241 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Farinances, 1, #1404 of 2331 🔗
148346 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 1, #1405 of 2331 🔗

Another reason to pray for a Trump victory – these global opinion control corporates in big tech are all US-based, and they are useful political censorship and propaganda tools for the Democrats, who have no intention of rolling back their manipulative capabilities. At least the Republicans (because they target Trump personally, and other conservatives, so relentlessly) recognise the threat they constitute to them politically, and are going to try to trim them back a bit.

They are an insidious but fundamental threat to the very essence of democracy.- free speech and expression, and the issue is wider than just the coronapanic.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/online-censorship-conservative-big-tech

148539 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to Mark, 1, #1406 of 2331 🔗

America will collapse into civil chaos shortly. I give them three years max.
There is going to be a massive depression.

If the technocrats think they are in control, they are very mistaken.

What do you think will happen when you have an armed population with no jobs, money or food?

148870 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Kate, 1, #1407 of 2331 🔗

I don’t expect it will take 3 years. The election, whichever way it goes, will probably be the tipping point. I’m annoyed as hell that I’ve got a choice between staying here with this insanity or going back to the US where I might get shot. BTW, both right and left have been arming themselves for years – and I don’t mean BLM. I know ordinary liberal Americans who are armed. This will not end well.

149091 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 1, #1408 of 2331 🔗

I’m fully on planet Trump now and not ashamed to say it, since he banned that unconscious bias bullshit.

148202 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 44, #1409 of 2331 🔗

I was talking to a friend today whose son and daughter in law now both work from home. They’re very happy with the set up – they don’t go to pubs and are lazy bastards so don’t go to the gym either. They’re quite happy to stay at home watching the TV with supermarket booze and Deliveroo carry outs. They don’t give a shit about those poor sods whose jobs are going down the pan. I’m fairly sure there are millions like them and that is where all the support for lockdown is coming from.

148206 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Hammer Onats, 11, #1410 of 2331 🔗

It’s where some is coming from, but a lot comes from the sheeple who can’t think for themselves.

148243 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1411 of 2331 🔗

Some people have been mind bent, ordinarily they would be good citizens go about their business, pay their taxes, couple of weeks holiday, no bother to anybody.

They do not know this has been done to them.

We need to talk to them, get them to stop looking at and listening to MSM, point them to alternative sources of information.

I do not think we can simply class them as sheeple and ignore them, we need to turn them to the light.

Those that walk round supermarkets being *wats about mask wearing, well we should write them off.

148251 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Hammer Onats, #1412 of 2331 🔗

This could be a depressingly large minority unfortunately.

148344 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Hammer Onats, #1413 of 2331 🔗

Until the reality catches up with them, Hammer O Nats, they’ll squawk fast enough then!

148353 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, #1414 of 2331 🔗

What will it take for that though?

149029 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Hammer Onats, #1415 of 2331 🔗

Which is why this will only end after 30% of the people have become unemployed and the £ has been devalued by a hyperinflation.
At that point, those w*nkers will get it, as will pensioners, civil servants and teachers, who will all have to make do after that with a third of what they are being paid now on a real basis, as the private sector can’t produce more and the government can’t borrow for free and unlimited anymore.

148209 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #1416 of 2331 🔗

Andrew Lawrence on the money

148225 ▶▶ Panda, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1417 of 2331 🔗

That is absolute quality lol

148289 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Panda, 1, #1418 of 2331 🔗

It has seemed to me for some time that the concept of conflict of interest is lost on most people.

148408 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Dave #KBF, #1419 of 2331 🔗

Wonderful!
An unsung hero!
(Lawrence that is.)

148228 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 5, #1420 of 2331 🔗

No one seems to be reporting actual figures ( as opposed to the ‘ predictions’). Are they deliberately being kept under wraps / inflated?
I’d be interested to hear actual hospitalisations with co Vid ( NOT inpatients who then have a positive test) and deaths of ( not with) Co Vid. And more importantly- to give context- where such figures sit compared with other causes.
It’s now almost 3 weeks after return to school/ work/ eat out schemes – so this should give us a more honest picture as to whether the doom saying and recent further restrictions could possibly be warranted ( and Just to clear, I’m not saying that even then they’d be justified- as government would still need to show (1) they’d have an effect and (2) the benefits outweigh any costs).

148305 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Telpin, 2, #1421 of 2331 🔗

Opposition and journalists not asking for that info

Govt have been given a free pass on it all, so feel free to lie and not even pretend to have a coherent case or plan or reason for anything

148229 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, #1422 of 2331 🔗

https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiaa593/5907985

No SARS-CoV-2 neutralization by intravenous immunoglobulins produced from plasma collected before the 2020 pandemic

This article published 17 th Sept is probably the paper Fauci is referring to in his discussion with Rand Paul in the US Senate(see ysterday). The interesting thing is that in Aug Fauci spoke about T cells immunity and cross resistance. The T cells induced cross immunity is not contradicted by this finding that common HCoV antibodies in IVIG did not have cross reactivity with Sars-Cov2

148272 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1423 of 2331 🔗

But Rand Paul(who is a doctor)quickly tweeted this to Fauci

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6505/846.full
An article stating less HI required due to
“show that by introducing age and activity heterogeneities into population models for SARS-CoV-2, herd immunity can be achieved at a population-wide infection rate of ∼40%, considerably lower than previous estimates. This shift is because transmission and immunity are concentrated among the most active members of a population, who are often younger and less vulnerable. If nonpharmaceutical interventions are very strict, no herd immunity is achieved, and infections will then resurge if they are eased too quickly.”

148280 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to swedenborg, #1424 of 2331 🔗

Great find!

148247 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 11, #1425 of 2331 🔗

https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/1309145690992455682/photo/1

Can anyone explain this? Everybody accept facemasks, majority want more lockdowns but what is happening when confronted to do something if they have been exposed?

Damning data from test and trace

 “Absolutely damning data on the complete failure to follow Covid-19 guidelines in the UK • Only 18% of people self-isolate after developing symptoms • Only 11% quarantine after being told by NHS Test and Trace that they’ve been in contact with a confirmed case”

148277 ▶▶ Glyn, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1426 of 2331 🔗

Don’t believe the YouGov poll.

148324 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1427 of 2331 🔗

The explanation lies, I think, in the use of emotional triggering rather than any logic. It essentially bypasses critical thinking, and depends upon infantilisation of the subject.

So – facemasks and lockdowns are essentially toy badges that tap into that childish excitement at the unusual event. No real significance or effect – but they can be ‘displayed’, marking membership of a virtue-signalling club – part of the gang; ostentatiously ‘doing something’.

Self-isolation and quarantine aren’t such exhibitionist activities, and require quiet grit; they are, by definition, tedious and isolated with no audience.

… well – that’s my attempt at distinguishing motives.

148249 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 24, #1428 of 2331 🔗

So all this bollocks about Boris’s bit on the side poncing about in Italy.

If there was a killer virus on the loose that will wipe out mankind I wouldn’t let my Mrs and newborn child travel or leave the house.

Fucking plebs are too thick to see it.

We are being played, conned, tricked.

148255 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 2, #1429 of 2331 🔗

Then again if they are ‘together’ and it’s probably not even his

148261 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to stefarm, #1430 of 2331 🔗

BJ office explicitly denied he visited Italy. Has this been proven to be a lie? Not surprised of course, just wondering if he’s been banged to rights?

148275 ▶▶▶ Glyn, replying to Telpin, 1, #1431 of 2331 🔗

They were not in Italy but at the child’s baptism. That is verified.

148387 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Glyn, #1432 of 2331 🔗

How did they get the baby baptised if it was in Italy?

148415 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Telpin, #1434 of 2331 🔗

He is a proven liar — as shown in the forensic take-down at the start of yesterday’s UK Column News:

https://www.ukcolumn.org/

148749 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Telpin, #1435 of 2331 🔗

i heard the other day that the italian media made a mistake on their vip visit and it wasn’t BJ

148409 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to stefarm, 1, #1436 of 2331 🔗

She’s not his Mrs.

He is immoral.

148252 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1437 of 2331 🔗

I knew I’d seen viable industries etc mentioned somewhere in relation to the new green utopia and here it is:

https://www.unido.org/our-focus/cross-cutting-services/green-industry

The UN again but I’m sure ether are other documents.

You don’t meet their definition of viable your industry will be gone.

148338 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, #1438 of 2331 🔗

Only if you let them take charge.

148253 Glyn, replying to Glyn, 4, #1439 of 2331 🔗

With the attitudes of several friends and virtually all my family in mind I find it hard to believe the finding of the YouGov poll in which 70% declared themselves happy with the new restrictions while some 40% actually thought they were not strict enough.Who are these people? Where does YouGov find its pollsters? |I suppose if you are on the government payroll with income and pension secure you can be sanguine about the trashing of the economy for a disease from which over 95% of people will recover.
As for Sunak saying that he doesn’t want people to worry because he can shake his magic money tree and all will be well, does he think we are all so stupid that we don’t know there really isn’t a magic money tree and that we will all, those with any income, property or money at all, will be broken by the taxes that will be foisted on us to pay for his largesse?
Add to that the outrageous fiddling with statistics, the ignorance of Hancock regarding the impact of false positives and Raab’s ignorance as to the actual number who died of Covid aged below 60 and we can see we are not in the best of hands.
Why do they use the worse case scenario? Why are they not more scrupulous as to how Covid ends up being put down as cause of death in cases where there are serious co-morbidities? Why are they not reassuring the public?
All that said, it must add that I am still far happier it is Boris in charge than Starmer or Corbyn. We only have to look around the world to see that Left wing governments are revelling in locking down their citizens for very little reason. If any one is in any doubt look up Sky Aus. reports as to what has been going on in Victoria, Australia under Dan Andrews.

148282 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Glyn, 6, #1440 of 2331 🔗

I’ll tell you who that 40% are.

Enemy combatants.

148294 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Matt The Cat, 4, #1441 of 2331 🔗

Or bots!

148496 ▶▶ Kate, replying to Glyn, #1442 of 2331 🔗

Can you really mean that after our crazed dictator’s performance on Tuesday.?

148263 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 7, #1443 of 2331 🔗

Another worrying thought: having just read the reports of Chancellor Sunak’s latest job support scheme, it is obvious that many of those qualifying for support will have to accept reduced hours and wages.

The colder weather will soon be with us, so how will all those affected be expected to pay their gas and electricity bills?

Demand necessarily rises in the winter, so I foresee an inevitable increase in fuel poverty, already a widespread problem in the UK.

Has anyone in government thought seriously about the looming prospect of ‘heat or eat’?

What will happen to the many hundreds of thousands no longer able to heat their homes adequately?

And tax receipts are going to plummet; how will the money be found?

MMT? Make it up as you go along? 2+2=whatever you find most convenient?

148328 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 3, #1444 of 2331 🔗

They have no idea how ordinary people live

148330 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to wendyk, 2, #1445 of 2331 🔗

MMT for sure. The imposition of a shorter working week for all, which they’ve wanted for a while.

And a financial crash of course to really clean house.

148395 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to wendyk, 2, #1446 of 2331 🔗

Funny how it doesn’t appear to be the wages of the public sector people

148283 davews, replying to davews, 1, #1447 of 2331 🔗