Last updated2020-09-25T12:43:24



149324 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #1 of 1807 🔗


149325 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #2 of 1807 🔗


149387 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Londo Mollari, 1, #3 of 1807 🔗


149326 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, #4 of 1807 🔗

Two thirds in a week, not bad

149328 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #5 of 1807 🔗

The few have become the many

Now we all know what it’s like to be fucked and abandoned by the pig dictator

149327 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 12, #6 of 1807 🔗

LoL I just woke up for a widdle and I can’t believe people have commented already!

149340 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Farinances, 25, #7 of 1807 🔗

Take comfort in the fact that the bedwetters didn’t get up for a widdle

149352 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Farinances, 6, #8 of 1807 🔗

I saw the pixies when I was in college… Fun show. 🙂

These updates drop at about 7:00pm my time, so if I wait until morning, there’s about 1200 comments and I’m way behind!

149367 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, 4, #9 of 1807 🔗

You’ll have to become a night owl in order to join us larks!

149372 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to annie, 1, #10 of 1807 🔗

Or change time zones

150838 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to RyanM, 1, #11 of 1807 🔗

tell all Your college friends about this site this affects all of us what this Government is doing

151023 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RyanM, 1, #12 of 1807 🔗

One of my fave bands 🙂 Well, they were. Their new stuff is wank

151024 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #13 of 1807 🔗

(Frank is NOTHING without Kim)

149509 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, 2, #14 of 1807 🔗

and you checked the comments page while having a widdle! 🙂 🙂

149527 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sue, 2, #15 of 1807 🔗

Hope she washed her hands!

151025 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, #16 of 1807 🔗

I didn’t! Oh my god, am I gonna die??!?

151026 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sue, #17 of 1807 🔗

I am one of those sad, sad indviduals who checks their phone as soon as they wake up. Even if it’s at 3am and I’m half asleep :/

149329 Rosser, replying to Rosser, #18 of 1807 🔗


149330 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Rosser, 4, #19 of 1807 🔗

Those of us who have escaped to foreign lands have an advantage

149337 ▶▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Cecil B, 16, #20 of 1807 🔗

Britain is a foreign land at the moment.

149482 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #21 of 1807 🔗

Quite, we are now the Socialist Republic of EUtopia.

149331 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #22 of 1807 🔗

‘ Exposure Notification Feature ‘

What? It tells you when your fly is undone?

149342 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Cecil B, 3, #23 of 1807 🔗

“Thanks, Siri. Why were you looking, by the way?”

149332 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 8, #24 of 1807 🔗

Rishi V. johnson. Please don’t tell me the extension of the nonsense just reflects a power struggle within the conservative party.

Was johnson got at during his stay at Chequers before lockdown, like Gorbachev isolated on the Black Sea as the communist old guard tried to stage a coup?

You ride out the shitstorm boris and I’ll take over when it looks good.

150843 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to karenovirus, 2, #25 of 1807 🔗

i have come to the conclusion that Johnson and his whole cabinet of shit must now go and Labour

149333 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 24, #26 of 1807 🔗

The people of Britain are living under a brutal dictatorship

The BBC runs a story that a rat has won an award

Note to me. Ring this morning and reserve a special place in hell for them

149371 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 9, #27 of 1807 🔗

You’re way late, a whole suite is waiting for them and the fires are stoked every morning.

149374 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to annie, 3, #28 of 1807 🔗

Do you have booking reference number?

149384 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 20, #29 of 1807 🔗

Sadly no, but I’m told the booking is non-cancellable and the dates can’t be changed: from now to eternity. And they will be greeted at the gates if Hell by special Covid Marshal Demons, who will hand them fiery, non-disposable face masks that can never be taken off.

149514 ▶▶ Jpeg, replying to Cecil B, 4, #30 of 1807 🔗

Indeed. I also saw somewhere that the ‘Docs4OpenDebate’ letter signed by nearly 2000 anti-lockdown doctors and health professionals in Belgium has been censored as ‘false information’ on Facebook. Is this true? I deactivated my Facebook so I can’t check but it’s absolutely outrageous if so.

149583 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jpeg, 2, #31 of 1807 🔗

Facebook sensors EVERYTHING, they are working in LOCKSTEP you see, along with all other media platforms, as demanded by the Rockefeller institute back in 2010.


150549 ▶▶▶▶ Jeremy Enns, replying to Two-Six, #32 of 1807 🔗

The link is blocked for me.

150855 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jeremy Enns, #33 of 1807 🔗

humm interesting, have you got your ISP’s family content filter on by any chance?

151040 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jeremy Enns, replying to Two-Six, #34 of 1807 🔗

No, in Russia and it seems the website where it is hosted is blocked.

151107 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jeremy Enns, #35 of 1807 🔗

humm interesting. Try a vpn? you should be able to find this document pretty easily anyway from somewhere else. This is what you are looking for. A must read.

149894 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Jpeg, 2, #36 of 1807 🔗

I deactivated FB over 2 years ago for banni g and deplatforming people for speaking the truth.

150823 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Jpeg, 1, #37 of 1807 🔗

there needs to be an alternative to facebook and twitter these two companies deserve to die

151008 ▶▶▶ Bartleby, replying to Jpeg, 1, #38 of 1807 🔗

Covid is the new woke. Unless you’re onboard with the accepted narrative, it’s false/fake news. No one wants to hear anything that upsets their worldview and safe space.

150260 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to Cecil B, #39 of 1807 🔗

Matt Handcnut won an award? When? What for?

149334 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 54, #40 of 1807 🔗

The Telegraph is being disingenuous when it says ‘cases are at near record levels’.
Back in March ‘cases’ were people who were genuinely ill, needing to be hospitalised and in some cases dying.

Now, as we all know, the vast majority of cases are of people so asymptomatic they don’t even know they have it.

149341 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to karenovirus, 46, #41 of 1807 🔗

I find it exhausting and infuriating that they all just keep banging on at the same misconceptions again and again. Conflating cases with infections; misunderstanding the FPR; the phrase “second wave”; ONLY EVER using raw “case” (sc. infection) numbers as the basis for everything, ignoring hospitalisation and death numbers and concealing the vast discrepancy in numbers tested between April and now. They just never listen to anyone. PMQs was a revolting spectacle. They were talking about all the wrong things, having all assumed the wrong thing about the important things. It isn’t just a Parliament of Vacuum Cleaners, sucking the life out of debate instead of feeding it – it’s an entire elite of them.

149343 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 13, #42 of 1807 🔗

You seem to be suggesting that they are thick as shit. Where on earth did you get that idea

149728 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 9, #43 of 1807 🔗

They are doing what Gates tells them to do and that is bad news for us. Johnson, Hancock and some others wear the mask of incompetence as cover for what they are really up to. Gates is all about depopulation through vaccination. He must be laughing his socks off.

149732 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Rowan, 5, #44 of 1807 🔗

Gates cannot say a sentence without giggling and chuckling his way through it, neither can his evil wife.

149765 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Two-Six, 5, #45 of 1807 🔗

We’ve noticed that too and Dave Cullen dissects it brilliantly here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3iVEK1USe4 (watch from 10 minutes in for Bill Gates but the whole video is excellent, if you haven’t already seen it.)

And now Fatboy Johnson has started emulating his ‘master’ (see his body-language in the Nuremberg Rally speech on Tuesday). MW

150366 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #46 of 1807 🔗

That is a very good watch that video. Scary as hell.

150497 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #47 of 1807 🔗

Hopefully history will repeat itself and Nuremberg Rally will lead to Nuremberg trial.

149836 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 2, #48 of 1807 🔗

Easily achieved with pharmaceuticals. Makes him seem benign and cheerful to the masses.

150416 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #49 of 1807 🔗

That gleeful giggling doesn’t suggest anything benign to me!

150050 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Rowan, 5, #50 of 1807 🔗

Not sure about depopulation through vaccine. Certainly we will get it through social distancing.

We are being trained to see other humans as dangerous infectious creatures to be avoided. I cannot image the damage this is doing to young people now and in the long run. But I fully expect a severe drop in births this year and in the coming years.

149351 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 13, #51 of 1807 🔗

They were talking about all the right things if the aim is to keep the lockdown pantomime on the road.
Question is why do almost all the MPs go along with it? They are not all thick.

149365 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, 8, #52 of 1807 🔗

Shares in vaccine companies

149401 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to karenovirus, 10, #53 of 1807 🔗

I suspect it’s because no one has the guts to expose themselves to the inevitable volley of “but people are DYING” outrage. Because the truth, on that subject, doesn’t sound good. Unless Andrew Scott is saying it.


150054 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to karenovirus, 1, #54 of 1807 🔗

Their careers

149353 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to karenovirus, 12, #55 of 1807 🔗

Happens when you change all the definitions midstream and rely on the fact that people are still under March assumptions.

I saw a chart in a local paper today that tried to prove that our cases have fallen due to masks. Infuriating as hell, because I know people won’t even question it.

149356 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 6, #56 of 1807 🔗

That’s all part of their clever plan, our fault if things go bad, they claim the credit if they don’t.

149620 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to karenovirus, 5, #57 of 1807 🔗

“the vast majority of cases are of people so asymptomatic they don’t even know they have it.”

That’s why testing is SO important!


(sarc warning :-\)

149883 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to PaulH, 9, #58 of 1807 🔗

“We must test, test, test – or there will be MILLIONS who will suffer the unspeakable horror of a having no symptoms! People will be REMAINING WELL in droves! Do you plebs not understand this?”

150076 ▶▶ John, replying to karenovirus, 2, #59 of 1807 🔗

It’s good ‘propaganda speak’ learned at the best schools in Russia.

149335 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 13, #60 of 1807 🔗

Jeremy Vine back in line.

Todays phone in was all about how sad people were that their nan couldn’t download the NHS app because she’s got an old phone or none at all.

Yesterday’s about the 10pm pub curfew wasn’t about whether it was a useful thing to do but whether or not pub goers had themselves to blame for ignoring social distancing. (They were, apparently ).

149594 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 14, #61 of 1807 🔗

I hate Jeremy Vine. His show is like brain-floss, He is the idiot’s Idiot. I cannot listen to any more than about 5 seconds of JV, utterly moronic.

149336 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 13, #62 of 1807 🔗

From the roundup.
Nice of Janet Street Porter to catch up with what we’ve been saying for months about the effects of ineffective lockdown.
Pity she ends by saying that only a vaccine will save us but nothing about herd immunity.

149339 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to karenovirus, 10, #63 of 1807 🔗

She’s a c*nt, who cares what she thinks?

149362 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Cecil B, #64 of 1807 🔗

Why do you think she’s a c*nt?

149375 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 15, #65 of 1807 🔗

Don’t knock her, at least she’s speaking out.

149488 ▶▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to annie, 10, #66 of 1807 🔗

I don’t always agree with JSP but she does seem to speak her mind and to be unafraid of going against the prevailing orthodoxy.

149989 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to annie, 1, #67 of 1807 🔗

I wouldn’t knock her even if you paid me.

150454 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 3, #68 of 1807 🔗

It’s a start and it bought the trollbots out in full force, so she must have worried someone.

149338 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 27, #69 of 1807 🔗

Long time lurker. Just joined tonight, so, hi all; thanks for keeping me sane.

I know this was posted yesterday, but this has to be at the top of the comments so everyone, who hasn’t seen it, sees it.

“Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab says the “challenge” with testing for #COVID19 in airports is ‘the very high false positive rate’ and adds ‘only 7% of tests will be successful in identifying those who have the virus’.”


149360 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Ceriain, 5, #70 of 1807 🔗


149369 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ceriain, 4, #71 of 1807 🔗

Welcome Ceriain.
I missed that yesterday.
Probably already been said but does that mean people who land at airports have a different Covid or is the test different or is that “challenge” the same everywhere as they keep denying ?

149381 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ceriain, 4, #72 of 1807 🔗

Welcome to the land of the sane!

149431 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ceriain, 2, #73 of 1807 🔗

Welcome to this oasis of sanity and rationality!

149689 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Ceriain, 2, #74 of 1807 🔗

Welcome to the House of Sanity! Carl Vernon pointed this out on one of his YouTube vids. Why ISN’T this being discussed?

150220 ▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to HelenaHancart, 2, #75 of 1807 🔗

Thank you all for the lovely welcome.

150070 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Ceriain, 6, #76 of 1807 🔗

That’s just mental. So tests not reliable at airports but a-ok for locking cities down.

What really stands out, apart from the mendacity of these government thugs, is the low calibre of the news reporters and interviewers. A follow up question is screaming out to be posed and yet nothing.

The media is worse than useless.

150219 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Ceriain, 3, #77 of 1807 🔗

they know what a FPR is when it suits them!

149345 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 15, #78 of 1807 🔗

Hello, trouble sleeping so I tried counting Covid stats, if it is of any interest;
Stats for NHS England;
Serves population 56 million
For the 7 days 16th to 22nd September
Total number of ‘Covid’ patients admitted to English hospitals 1571
Total number of ‘Covid’ patients recorded as in English hospitals
Went up from 894 on16th to 1335 on 22nd a rise of 441
For these 7 days the number of Covid deaths was 116
That leaves 1014 admissions not accounted for by deaths and the rise in total numbers in hospital.
I can only assume that these 1014 were patients who got better and were discharged and went home.
I have heard Hapless Hancock talk despairingly about the numbers being admitted to Hospital but really that needs to be offset against the people getting well and being discharged.
Also I note that the increase over these 7 days is somewhat less than the doubling he talked about

149348 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Steve Martindale, 36, #79 of 1807 🔗

They are testing everyone admitted to hospital

They are not admitted because of covid

Involved in a road accident and admitted?

‘ We’ve tested you and you have covid’

‘ No i don’t I’ m here because I got run over by a bus’

‘ Listen mate, if we say you got covid then you got fucking covid. Now shut the fuck up and eat your mashed potato’

149357 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #80 of 1807 🔗

What if our bus run over person dies five days later from their injuries?

Yep, right first time, they a are recorded as a hospital covid death

Remember where you heard it first


149361 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #81 of 1807 🔗

Also explains ‘covid’ patients on ventilators

149476 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Cecil B, 2, #82 of 1807 🔗

Haha first belly laugh today

149354 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #83 of 1807 🔗

Twenty three of those cases from the University ward here, might have brought it from home but more probably from socialising, ‘partying’ or, horror of horrors, moving around campus in groups of more than the magic number SIX.
Being students few if any of them will become ill let alone ‘need’ to be hospitalised but in the current atmosphere who knows what might be done to bump up the numbers.

149368 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #84 of 1807 🔗

and upto 60% of covid patients didn’t have covid when they were admitted.
Probably out after 10pm in large groups of 7

149407 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #85 of 1807 🔗

How many people on a ward?

149377 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, 12, #86 of 1807 🔗

The UK is the only ciuntry that never reports statistics for Covid recoveries. You just stay coviddy fir ever and ever.

149346 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 14, #87 of 1807 🔗

Uplifting update, today.

I could see the dominoes falling, soon.

150073 ▶▶ stewart, replying to RyanM, 2, #88 of 1807 🔗

Hopefully not the dominoes of the surveillance state that is being set up crashing onto us and suffocating us…

149347 David Mc, replying to David Mc, 36, #89 of 1807 🔗

One of the things that is most disturbing about this entire period is the way it has changed how we feel about death. My father died of complications arising from the flu, but I never would have dreamed of saying that society should put itself on hold to prevent the spread of the flu virus. I wrote a post about it here: https://medium.com/@civitasperegrina/death-in-2020-666a97057d35

149517 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to David Mc, 18, #90 of 1807 🔗

Exactly the same for me my Mum died Xmas Eve 2017 of complications from contracting flu while in hospital she also like vast majority of had other underlying issues and was near to end of life ,so when a smart arse tells me “you wouldn’t think that if you lost a loved one to this disease” they get my reply and you see them backtrack pretty quickly

149843 ▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to David Mc, 11, #91 of 1807 🔗

I know a now long-retired GP who would freely tell you that for years GPs referred to pneumonia as “the old person’s friend”.

There are PhDs in pyschology/sociology/philosophy to be written in years to come about how distorted our view of mortality has become and how it has become subservient to a more holistic view of what it means to be human and the value placed on lifelong mental and physical “wellness”.

150100 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Stuart Barker, 5, #92 of 1807 🔗

It is truly fascinating. In its quest for extension of life our society is actually dehumanising itself.

I suppose it is rational in so far as dying is intrinsic to being human. These tech billionaires aggressively pursuing the indefinite prolongation of life, like Ray Kurzweil and his team at Google, know that their consciousness can only live on in a non-human form, so they probably have no qualms about abandoning humanity. Society as a whole seems to be moving in that direction also. People seem to want to live even if the cost is abandoning their humanity.

151127 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, #93 of 1807 🔗


150079 ▶▶ stewart, replying to David Mc, 7, #94 of 1807 🔗

I have argued the very same thing. My mother died from a flu – her health was severely compromised already – and it never occurred to me to hold the person who may have passed the bug onto her responsible. That is life. Or at least it was…

149349 Cecil B, 17, #95 of 1807 🔗

Note to Mrs Dick

Early to bed tonight

Big day ahead of you tomorrow

149350 mattghg, 16, #96 of 1807 🔗


Interview with Prof Martin Kulldorff of Harvard Medical School. He says most infectious disease epidemiologists actually agree that an age-targeted approach to covid would be better, but they are drowned out by “vocal” scientists from other fields.

149355 William Purle, replying to William Purle, 3, #97 of 1807 🔗

Will Jones obviously not a fan of F1. It’s POLE position dude.

149404 ▶▶ mattghg, replying to William Purle, 4, #98 of 1807 🔗

I assumed that was an attempted pun – something to do with polling support from other Tories?

149484 ▶▶▶ optocarol, replying to mattghg, #99 of 1807 🔗

I noticed and wondered too!

149358 snippet, replying to snippet, 75, #100 of 1807 🔗

Pret have started asking those without a mask to put one on having previously had a no mask, we won’t ask policy. I said I’m exempt and they asked for my “document”. I said there are no “documents”. I took it up with the manager and they suggested that I wear a badge. I then told them about the Equality Act and the sad history of certain parts of society having to wear badges.

149363 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to snippet, 18, #101 of 1807 🔗

Gosh, that is truly shocking! Asking you to wear a badge that is so bad and so sinister.

149379 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Moomin, 22, #102 of 1807 🔗

Hitler got rid of ‘mentality retarded’ and physically disabled people before he went for the Jews with enthusiastic assistance of the medical profession, eager to pursue their eugenics programs.

149494 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 20, #103 of 1807 🔗

I watched a documentary on this a few days back. The nurses and doctors in Germany were complicit in killing all these people and a lot of young children, as well as forced sterilisation. They did all this without any dissent, much like we are seeing during this COVID.

It made me wonder if this was the same thing that has happened with all the elderly that died during March – June, and they’re just as complicit in not speaking up and allowing all these non COVID excess deaths.

149536 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 7, #104 of 1807 🔗

Care homes got a lot of bad press when stories of deaths there came out early on.
They were blamed for putting profits over safety.
That came to an end when NHS culpability was revealed.

149611 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 4, #105 of 1807 🔗

The Corona Boat floats on a sea of death and it has a deep draught.

149408 ▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Moomin, 9, #106 of 1807 🔗

Aren’t these the same people complaining that encouraging people to work from home is going to destroy their business? Couldn’t happen to a more deserving company as far as I’m concerned.

149409 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Moomin, 6, #107 of 1807 🔗

Yes but there is no other way, ask my son who is exempt from face nappies because of panic attacks and works in retail.

150252 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #108 of 1807 🔗

There is always another way.

149364 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to snippet, 11, #109 of 1807 🔗

Yes a nice yellow star would seem appropriate

149370 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to 6097 Smith W, 7, #110 of 1807 🔗

With exempt written in the centre

149378 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 2, #111 of 1807 🔗

And a film will, play in all cinemas: The Eternal Exempt.

151765 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to 6097 Smith W, #112 of 1807 🔗

Or a pink triangle. Either is fully effective at demonising a small section of the population; it begins with one section, and it never ends.

149376 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to snippet, 8, #113 of 1807 🔗

Film it next time and tell them they have broken privacy and disability laws

149434 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to snippet, 16, #114 of 1807 🔗

Rather bizarre that they’re complaining about declining revenue because of offices shut and non-existent train travel and now they’re trying to drive away paying customers.

Do they not realise the inherent contradiction here?

If that’s the case then they deserve to go bust. Shame as I will miss their savoury croissants and flat white.

150257 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #115 of 1807 🔗

Yes keep out of Pret, which nows seems ready to go bust.

149480 ▶▶ LS99, replying to snippet, 14, #116 of 1807 🔗

I saw a notice outside a cafe this week asking politely for masks for be worn. It said potentially £200 for individual not wearing mask/£10,000 fine for the venue. Whether that is true or not, I believe that they were saying what they believed to be the situation. I think the government is making it really really difficult for businesses to take a relaxed approach about this, even if the business owner wants to.

Well done for holding your ground though – all that for a bloody overpriced sandwich!

149505 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to LS99, 9, #117 of 1807 🔗

It’s not true, but I can see how it could easily be misinterpreted that way. As long as the venue is complying with all the nonsense Covid secure rules, they don’t get fined. These include, I assume, the new rules about staff wearing masks (note, exemptions still apply), but nobody but the punters get fined if the punters don’t wear masks.

I assume the confusion is deliberate and an attempt to get shops and hospitality venues to enforce mask wearing more enthusiastically.

I’m much more concerned about making a trip to the pub mask less than I ever have been about making a trip to a shop bare faced. I think this is partly because I actually have some kind of human relationship with the staff at my local (albeit very casual), so I’m going to feel more guilty if I claim exemption. I do have (very mild) asthma and so a legitimate technical exemption, but I have absolutely no idea whether this actually makes it difficult for me to wear a mask because I’ve never tried, so I am in fact lying if I say I’m exempt. I’ll probably build up to giving it a go over the weekend and we’ll see, but the assumption that they’ll think they’re also liable for a fine makes it more concerning.

149619 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, 6, #118 of 1807 🔗

DON’T DO IT! You will feel like you have compromised your integrity. It’s not worth it.

150498 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 6, #119 of 1807 🔗

I disagree. I think the rules, designed to terrify people, should be broken, as an act of civil duty. I would feel I was compromising my own integrity if I did willingly wear a mask.

149702 ▶▶▶▶ LS99, replying to matt, 2, #120 of 1807 🔗

Thanks for clearing that up Matt, I did wonder about it and also think the confusion seems deliberate.

150261 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to LS99, 1, #121 of 1807 🔗

Almost certainly it is and true to form for this shifty and shitty government.

149803 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, 12, #122 of 1807 🔗

Here’s chapter-and-verse from Law or Fiction on this very issue:

Who will enforce this?

In practice, controllers of premises have been responding to threatening behaviour from Environmental Health officers, telling them that health and safety laws require them to keep their premises “Covid Secure”. (We have a contrary view: Risk assessments: an important chink in the lockdown armour, but the threats have been and remain effective in practice.)

Employers and controllers of premises seem likely to require face covering to be worn and an individual who objects will need to be acquainted with the reasonable excuse exemptions above and Low mood – a reasonable excuse to ignore coronavirus restrictions.

Police, police community support officers, TfL officers, and any other person designated by the Secretary of State for Health are the ‘relevant persons’ who can issue Fixed Penalty Notices in theory. Significantly, unlike other regulations, ‘relevant persons’ do not include persons designated by Local Authorities. The enforcement of wearing face covering will, therefore, be mostly by fear and intimidation but with likely very few fines being issued.

[ ]

The regulations do not and cannot trump discrimination law

[ ]

What should businesses do?

Businesses and their staff are best advised not to challenge those who refuse to wear a face covering . Otherwise, at some point in the day there is likely to be a time when someone with a disability is challenged. Depending on how the situation develops, and this could be within minutes or seconds, a situation may arise when the business, and the person conducting the challenge, may find they have committed:

  • an offence for which they are liable on summary conviction to pay a fine of up to £5,000 – section 112 (Aiding contraventions) of the Equality Act 2010; and/or
  • an act of disability discrimination and be ordered to pay to any individual who suffers injury to feelings compensation between £900 and £9,000 – section 119 (Remedies) of the Equality Act 2010

I hope this helps. , do not get bogged down in technicalities. If you really don’t want to wear a mask and I know you are acquainted with the arguments as you are a ‘regular’, you have a reasonable excuse in law. You can let your local sort themselves out, you are not responsible for them. Trying to make us feel ‘responsible’ for others when it is not appropriate is part of the psy-op. MW

150672 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hughie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #123 of 1807 🔗

I’m glad you have cited this. Today I went on my first tube journey since this lunacy started and decided I was going to tough it out without a mask. I have followed the links from the mask section of the daily LS updates about masks and the law but it wasn’t until I was on the train that I discovered the Law or Fiction website. What a find. Exactly what I had hoped to find. Anyway, I went for a long return tube ride and didn’t even get a second look, so never had to have an argument or show someone the documentation to prove that THEY would be the party breaking the law.

Nevertheless, I didn’t see a SINGLE person on the train (and I walked past many carriages) not wearing a mask of some kind. Two or three below the nose but that was it.

It is quite incredible how many people are clearly incapable of investigating this for themselves. I simply don’t believe they all approve of the ‘rules’.

151785 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #124 of 1807 🔗

This is part of the fucking Cressida Dick “nudge” element of this monstrous psy-op; as she herself said, she hoped it would be enforced by people shaming each other. Not her exact words, but the clear intention was there.

149538 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to LS99, 1, #125 of 1807 🔗

Are you sure about business responsibility? They have not been thus far.

149806 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, 3, #126 of 1807 🔗

They are not. Please see my reply to Matt, above. MW

150098 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #127 of 1807 🔗

Just backtracked and read that, thank you Miriam-sometimes-AlanG.

149582 ▶▶ alw, replying to snippet, 8, #128 of 1807 🔗

If Pret continue doing this, they will close down altogether. Already had to close branches and sack staff.

149717 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to snippet, 7, #129 of 1807 🔗

I’d have told them that they risk a £9,000 fine under the 2010 Equality Act which OVERIDES the diktats under the Coronavirus Act, for discriminating against me – LaworFiction has an excellent procedure you can download or copy if any business is pushing their bloody luck with you, which you can call them out on. And I would have told them (politely) where they in future can keep their sandwiches!

150045 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to HelenaHancart, 3, #130 of 1807 🔗

As I said the other day, when I go to the shops I’m now taking copies of the Law or Fiction pages as well as my exemption badge. So far I haven’t needed to produce the pages.

149860 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to snippet, 5, #131 of 1807 🔗

One suspects the Pret in Trafalgar Square won’t be doing this tomorrow …

149994 ▶▶ snippet, replying to snippet, 6, #132 of 1807 🔗

Went to Itsu today. Much better experience. No questions and their staff use visors not masks, so at least you get a smile. By the way, central London is almost dead now. Restaurants closing having just reopened and gained a small toe hold that has now been obliterated. With that and the closure of UCH and Royal Free A&E to CHILDREN, I’m waiting for the backlash. Once children start dying because of overcrowding at the Whittington or because the ambulance takes too long to get them there, maybe the public will realise that this can’t go on.

150488 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to snippet, #133 of 1807 🔗

One to boycott!

151759 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to snippet, #134 of 1807 🔗

If I am challenged by anyone apart from the few lovely business-owners that I normally frequent, I show my lanyard and shout “I am exempt! What part of that don’t you understand?” It is highly effective. I will not be challenged by “sheeple”.

149359 snippet, replying to snippet, 22, #135 of 1807 🔗

Raj Bhopal’s response to the two open letters should be front page news in the mainstream media.

Vaccines will not be proven to be safer for children and young people than the infection for some years, if ever. Two adenovirus-based vaccines have already been shown to have important side-effects that mimic COVID-19 infection — i.e. fever, pain, fatigue and headache – the side-effects have been glossed over. The side effects are occurring in 70-80% of fit people in the young adult and middle age groups. We really must know whether it is effective in people over 70 years. A vaccine is not going to be a panacea. There will be resistance and it will be contested, including in the courts, as by sheer coincidence people will die or become seriously ill shortly after receiving the vaccine and will blame it.


149366 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to snippet, 22, #136 of 1807 🔗

so 80% of fit young people have no symptoms of the disease but 80% have side effects from the cure?
Double plus good

149380 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to 6097 Smith W, 4, #137 of 1807 🔗

Yay, they will then go to be tested, be found to have dead virus, and be locked up, along with their fsmilies and colleagues and anyone else they’ve been seen with.

149382 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to snippet, 7, #138 of 1807 🔗

Which is why many medics resist pressure to take the normal annual flu vaccine.
Interesting to see their position to any Covid vaccine they might come up with.

149742 ▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to snippet, 2, #139 of 1807 🔗

And reports are that the vaccine will, at best, be 50% effective or only reduce the symptoms. At best.

149373 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 55, #140 of 1807 🔗

Am I missing something? How is it a good thing that Sunak becomes PM? He’s been complicit and his scheme is costing millions and will now only support viable businesses yet the unviable ones are only so because of their lockdown policy, i.e. the government has made them unviable!

It’s my daughter’s 16th birthday today. Never would I have thought that we’d still be in local lockdown or any kind of lockdown. She can’t have friends or family round so we’re having to be creative to do something nice for her where they can all meet up, which I think she’ll enjoy but it’s not the same.

I’m finding it hard to stay positive, as a Christian I anchor my hope, faith and trust in Jesus as He is unchanging, this is great but it is still a struggle!

149386 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Moomin, 22, #141 of 1807 🔗

My thoughts exactly, and wasn’t he stating the source for the economy and jobs would have to adapt to the new normal. This chap is not our friend. Also a Christian, but we don’t even have the church supporting us against the current assault on our liberties and society, at least in the old iron curtain days, Poland especially had the Church’s support.

149394 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Nsklent, 40, #142 of 1807 🔗

Has there ever before been a situation where in a time of crisis, the Church responded by shutting churches? I’m not a worshipper, but I do appreciate churches as places of peace, comfort, charity and, if you’re a prayer, prayer. I found it extraordinary and ludicrous that the Archbishop of Canterbury banned services. “For where two or three are gathered in my name, provided that they are social distancing and wearing masks and do not sing, there am I on Zoom.”

149400 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 26, #143 of 1807 🔗

Too true, alas. The treachery and cowardice of the churches is the worst blow the present tyranny has dealt to Christians.

149403 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #144 of 1807 🔗

That one made me laugh. Well done.

149521 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 13, #145 of 1807 🔗

My nan got told by her friend that she is not a “good Christian” for not wearing a mask after 50 odd years of going to church. Did not take that very well!

149625 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Youth_Unheard, 6, #146 of 1807 🔗

HUH, funny how Christians cannot see the unbridled EVIL at work. I thought Christians had a finely tuned sense of Evil. Isn’t that the whole point of it??

149973 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Two-Six, 3, #147 of 1807 🔗

You could argue that they are no longer Christian, when they show so little faith.

150525 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 3, #148 of 1807 🔗

Many “Christians” are merely virtue signallers.

150293 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #149 of 1807 🔗

The Churches sold their souls for the biblical thirty pieces of silver.

150885 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #150 of 1807 🔗

The Church has never closed its doors.
Christians have met through times of peace and war.
I agree that Sunak is not an improvement. No one who has held a senior cabinet position during this crisis is worthy of the job. Whilst I’m sure some of them privately disagree, and are bound by collective responsibility. But if the way this has been handled isn’t a resigning matter – what would be?

149390 ▶▶ annie, replying to Moomin, 33, #151 of 1807 🔗

Jesus is with us.
Jesus didn’t tell people to hide away in gibbering terror of death.
Jesus didn’t turn away sick people today in case other people got ill tomorrow.
Jesus didn’t hide behind a mask.
Jesus didn’t tell people to treat their neighbours as walking bags of disease.
Jesus accompanies us through danger, persecution and even death.
The church may have abandoned us, but Jesus has not.
Stay with him.

149402 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to annie, 5, #152 of 1807 🔗

Toby linked to this a while back. Good read. Especially as this is largely a British forum, makes me think of “the great divorce” and “screwtape letters.” More the latter.


149406 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, 5, #153 of 1807 🔗

Screwtape must be planning the biggest party Hell has ever seen, and looking forward to dining on Roast Archbishop of Canterbury.

151842 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to annie, #154 of 1807 🔗

I’m not sure Satan will allow casual visitors, but if so, please may I have two tickets to watch him fry?

149461 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to RyanM, #155 of 1807 🔗

Thanks, I’ll have a read later.

149508 ▶▶▶▶ Sara, replying to RyanM, 3, #156 of 1807 🔗

Thank you for this link. It is well worth a read and expresses my feelings exactly. I am encouraged that there are so many Christians, here and in the current fight for freedom. On Saturday 29th August, thousands of us prayed the Lord’s Prayer.

149459 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to annie, 12, #157 of 1807 🔗

Thanks for this Annie, it’s really helpful, especially the bit about turning away the sick in case others got ill tomorrow. The leaders of my church have convinced themselves that meeting on Zoom is still meeting and that we’re not being told to go against what God commands us to do since the government’s intention is for the common good, it’s hard to watch how naive they are being and that they can’t see how cruel lockdowns are.

150722 ▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Moomin, 1, #158 of 1807 🔗

Church services on zoom feel like a mockery of the real thing. I felt perfectly safe in my church in March, a large building with just a few worshippers. I’m so happy we are open again. It took me a month to get there, though as they were so scared of giving lifts and the fact I’m exempt from masks.

149587 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to annie, 2, #159 of 1807 🔗

Thanks Annie

151837 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to annie, #160 of 1807 🔗

Amen. Please tell that to my wife’s friends.

149391 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Moomin, 19, #161 of 1807 🔗

Sadly ironic that it is the hospitality industry that usually soaks up unemployment “until I get a proper job”.
Not this time it won’t.

149892 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, #162 of 1807 🔗

Very good point karen. I suspect we’ll see a lot of window cleaners/gardeners/odd-job people/etc. springing up.

150302 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to karenovirus, 1, #163 of 1807 🔗

There’s always the prospect serving the community by being a Covid Marshal and you get to choose whether to wear a brown or a black shirt.

149425 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Moomin, 8, #164 of 1807 🔗

So agree with you on this, Sunak is certainly not the answer. And the church have been a disgrace. Not religious myself but, in times of crisis, I do find the quiet calm of a church reassuring.

Your poor daughter, I hope you do manage to find something nice do. What a wretched time to be a youngster.

149463 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to kh1485, 5, #165 of 1807 🔗

Yeah, I really feel for her. I’m trying to remain positive, my wife is so much better at it than I am and will make it amazing, I struggle to hide my anger and frustration at having to bend around this nonsense.

149439 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Moomin, 10, #166 of 1807 🔗

Rather dubious about Sunak especially as he’s been bleating on about the “new normal” which will pretty much set us back to the Stone Age.

The Church has been a disgrace and a run in I had with a verger reinforces my view that they are nothing but a mouthpiece of the state.

Very sorry about your daughter and I do hope she has a good birthday despite the circumstances.

149465 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #167 of 1807 🔗

Thanks, I agree, even the independent evangelical body my church is effectively a mouthpiece of the state, their desire to follow the rules and be exemplary means that they’re circumventing what the bible teaches. It’s heartbreaking to watch.

149487 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Moomin, 8, #168 of 1807 🔗

I believe that even the Catholic church has gone the same way.

They remind me of the Pharisees and Saducees jockeying for position to see who is seen to be the best in following the Law of Moses to the letter. They’ve forgotten the message that Jesus preached.

Makes you yearn for the Second Coming to remind this lot of what their actual job is supposed to be.

149671 ▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #169 of 1807 🔗

Yeah, it is pharisaical.

149991 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Moomin, 2, #170 of 1807 🔗

So, not only is a new political party needed, but a new church as well.

I suggested to the minister here that he should hold outdoor meetings, a la John Wesley. (This was back in the summer.)

A group of like-minded people could start a church – don’t even need a minister to start with.

149470 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #171 of 1807 🔗

I’m sure she’ll have a great time. We’ll do all that we can to make sure that she has a nice day, my wife is pretty amazing at that sort of stuff. Thankfully we home educate so we don’t have to worry about all the nonsense going on in schools, some of my daughter’s friends have already been sent home because there has been a ‘case’ in the class or something! It’s probably just a cold for goodness sake!

149495 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Moomin, 4, #172 of 1807 🔗

Exactly. Well done you and agree she will have a great time.

I did think that what are the odds that these “cases” are just the usual colds that young people get every time school reopens?

All the more reason why schools and universities should be banging the drum of taking vitamin C, D and zinc as well as eating well, being outdoors, playing, sports,

149635 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #173 of 1807 🔗

No, the message is stay in your room all day, stay away from everybody, eat tinned food, pasta and noodles until a vaccine is produced.

150519 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Two-Six, #174 of 1807 🔗

That will produce a nation of obesity sufferers who will be at greater risk of dying from COVID. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for the Establishment.

150706 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to Two-Six, 1, #175 of 1807 🔗

That, unfortunately, is so true.

151117 ▶▶▶ Anne Sceptic, replying to Bart Simpson, #176 of 1807 🔗

I have to say that Steve Baker is my choice for PM. A Christian, an intelligent sane empathetic man and the main person fighting for our civil liberties in Parliament. I am going to be praying for him and all those in Parliament that are on the side of freedom and not big pharma. I am also praying all the plans of the evil tyrants and those scaring the population witless, boomerang back on them. 🙏🏻
I think we are living through revelation, seeing the world as it really is, with 20/20 vision.

150276 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Moomin, 2, #177 of 1807 🔗

The problem is the present government in its entirety. Rearranging the deckchairs on SSTitanicUK won’t help one bit. All cabinet members are complicit in the Bill Gates inspired Covid-19 ultra scam and they should all be locked away awaiting trial for treason and possible death penalty. It really is that bad.

149383 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 61, #178 of 1807 🔗

Back to work today to god knows what: snitchers, BID interference …

One of my Saturday staff got in touch yesterday worried about the mask diktat. She and her two colleagues are all LS but she says that, as she doesn’t have a medical issue and because she is worried that “it will take just one customer to complain”, she has decided she should wear a mask.

I went straight back to her and pointed out that if that was her only concern and if a mask were to cause her anxiety (I believe it would), then she most certainly does not have to wear one. I told her that we would deal with any reprisals.

But what an awful world these politicians have created where a youngster, trying to earn some money, feels pressurised in this way. Shame on you, shame on you.

149385 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 11, #179 of 1807 🔗

p.s. Just read about Al Johnson potentially limping on fof a few more years – please no …

149393 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 15, #180 of 1807 🔗

Bozo is just being kept in place to take the blame.

149642 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 16, #181 of 1807 🔗

Boris he is like a big frayed at the seams old teddy bear, once loved by everybody but now threadbare and soggy, with dried up Weetabix ground into his fur.

He is one step away from the bin but he can’t be thrown out for sentimental reasons. He is still a popular toy in the toy box and many people like to haul him around by his tattered ears and occasionally punch him in he fat soggy belly as a stress reliever. So he still has a useful role.

149831 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to karenovirus, 3, #182 of 1807 🔗

thought that was handy cocks job

151801 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Major Panic, #183 of 1807 🔗

No. Hancock is there to be punched, hard, in the stomach as a voodoo totem, in the hope that it transfers to the intended victim.

150003 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to kh1485, 5, #184 of 1807 🔗

I’m convinced he’ll be gone in the New Year after proper Brexit. He’ll resign on health grounds.

He has to be liked, so it is basic playground rules, the more people that call him names, criticise etc, the more unsound he’ll become.

He won’t want to resign – afterall he’s always wanted to be ‘world king’, but he will have to go.

149389 ▶▶ matt, replying to kh1485, 37, #185 of 1807 🔗

My local corner shop has been a bit of a bastion of sanity. The owner was clearly fearful at the beginning (and he was clearly suffering from some kind of cold virus back in early April), but he’s kept going, kept himself stocked even when the cash and carry had its shelves stripped. Most importantly, despite going in once a day at least, I’ve only ever seen one person (the local vet) in there with a mask on.

So I was worried what I’d find when I went in yesterday.

But there he was, no mask, no mention of masks, all as normal (except he’s moved to a smaller size of olive oil bottle, which I pointed out is fine for the extra virgin stuff, but no good for the cooking stuff).

Anyway, my point is, he’s clearly not worried about snitches and nor should you be, KH. Keep doing what you’re doing. You’ll have pride of place in the Hall of Sane when all of this is over.

149396 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to matt, 12, #186 of 1807 🔗

Similar at my convenience store, the younger partner now wearing a visor while stocking shelves, the older one without a mask, probably claiming exemption (who am I to ask !).

149411 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 15, #187 of 1807 🔗

Please, let’s all shop in places like that as much as we possibly can.

Or, of course, you could go to Asda and be ‘greeted’ at the door by a posse of thugs who will thrust a mask on you and demand that you pay for a packet of the filthy rags when you leave.

149414 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 8, #188 of 1807 🔗

Indeed. And I wonder what the mark-up is on those “filthy rags”.

149426 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 12, #189 of 1807 🔗

And proudly States on the back – not to be used as ppe

149428 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 6, #190 of 1807 🔗

Really? Again, I despair …

149433 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 25, #191 of 1807 🔗

Yes, I picked up a packet at the till of my local Morrisons and saw it on the small print on the back. Had a good laugh to myself, most people know this hence why we see them stuffing them in pockets, hanging off arms or ears, rear view car mirrors and stuffed in handbags.

Nearly all want to be seen as saving mankind, the global warming trick hasn’t worked as most people still drive a car and go on foreign holidays.

Wearing a mask is an extension of recycling their household cardboard but the irony is they park their bin on the drive in-between their 2 cars or 2 litre mercedes/Range Rover.

Wearing a mask makes them look and feel like a warrior in the fight for mankind wearing a pair of gloves as well makes them a general.

It also gives those who were bullied at school an opportunity to bully people without a mask.

It’s a win win for the government, classic self policing of a facist state.

And then there are those ‘but it’s the rules’ no hope for them.

All bollocks of course.

Phew, toast or cornflakes for breakfast???

149444 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 11, #192 of 1807 🔗

In other words, its all virtue signalling crap.

What are the odds that when this is over, they will be so embarrassed with their virtue signalling that any photos of them in muzzles will be deleted and the bins will be full of discarded masks that are no longer needed?

149453 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #193 of 1807 🔗

Yes, I should of said that 😁 but you got my drift plus a good rant is good for the soul

149497 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 4, #194 of 1807 🔗

Exactly and it was a good rant! 👍

149455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #195 of 1807 🔗

Like just before the fall of Communism the public bins were full of destroyed Party Membership cards

149499 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karenovirus, 3, #196 of 1807 🔗

That is a good precedent.

149460 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #197 of 1807 🔗

I don’t think we’ll ever take them off again now, this is here to stay permanently.

149525 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #198 of 1807 🔗

I don’t think self reflection is their strong point.

149650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #199 of 1807 🔗

These dicks will frame their bastard masks on the wall in their hallways.

149718 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #200 of 1807 🔗

It absolutely is virtue signalling on an epic scales. However, many are doing it unconsciously. Been having a back and forth on a local blog site with a lady who wants people with exemptions to consider not shopping (click and collect) or wearing a visor (yes, for the most deadly disease we’ve ever known). I think she should be the one to stay home and get a delivery but here was what the last exchange was. Its indicative of the thinking out there:

Her: “Upside down thinking. The 95%who support mask wearing however reluctantly should click and collect so that the 5% can do what they like/
When there are doubts and it is a matter of life and death you should encourage people to err on the side of caution.
You are prioritising personal choice over potential risk.
Do you think that everyone who doubts the value of masks should feel free to not wear one then and if so does this apply to all restrictions?”

Me: “No. The 95% you cite is a little disingenuous. The compliance level was minimal until the boss mandated it. So if everyone was all about the science (the WHO changed their guidance in July) of protecting each other how do you explain that? People are generally good citizens and will follow the guidance. If they said tomorrow that its all up to you, how many would still wear them? So I don’t accept that point at all.

Look, the original comment was regarding exemptions and we should respect that and move on. That’s the guidance. To challenge anyone on their eligibility to be exempt is breaking the law.

However, on the issue of potential risk vs personal choice. What exactly is the risk to the vast majority of people I ask you? On the back of a fag packet I say minimal, even less if you have no underlying conditions. How many people under 65 have died from this? Around 30 in Northern Ireland. If this has been around since January then we can say thats around 3 a month. 2,000+ die under 65 every year of other causes. Under 65s make up around 85% of the local population. That’s some quantification of risk. So the majority of people you encounter mask to mask will have other risks that are more pertinent to them in my opinion. And masks are unproven to be of any benefit as I keep saying.

But we absolutely want to protect the vulnerable. So let’s do that. Maybe open up the creative ideas to allow them priority for deliveries, shielder/over 65s times in shops/supermarkets/church services and maybe even pub nights. Because that will have much more of an effect in addressing matter than masks.”

149874 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #201 of 1807 🔗

Last bit is spot on – the muzzles don’t exactly inspire confidence. If they were then why are shops, pubs and restaurants still ghost towns? Not to mention rumours that its now hard to get delivery slots again? Could it be that more and more people refuse to kowtow to this nonsense any longer?

149513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stefarm, 7, #202 of 1807 🔗

I’ve actually felt a change of atmosphere since the changes.Definitely more dirty looks in the shops for going maskless

149634 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 10, #203 of 1807 🔗

I just forget everyone else’s bitching and concentrate on what I am doing. Unless they are paying for my goods they can mind their own 😎

149720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to stefarm, #204 of 1807 🔗

Great post!

151812 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to stefarm, #205 of 1807 🔗

My wife’s church-going friends are all bed-wetters of the first water. When the time comes for the Stasi round-up, they will eagerly help each other into the cattle-cars and make sure that the cattle-trucks are labelled Auchwitz to make sure they don’t inconvenience their lords and masters. Such people deserve everything that is coming to them.

149518 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to stefarm, 1, #206 of 1807 🔗

That always cracks me up!

149441 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 2, #207 of 1807 🔗

And surprise, surprise….Made in China!!!!

149450 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 7, #208 of 1807 🔗

I looked into buying in bulk and the cost was 12p per mask, but you can imagine with the supermarket buying power they probably pay less that 5p per mask. No wonder supermarkets want you to wear them they’re making a huge profit on them.

149458 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to JohnB, 5, #209 of 1807 🔗

Funny as they were at the front of the queue to get rid of single use plastic, my local area is full of the disgusting things left on the pavement, verges, bushes. I now have to do the dog shit/mask shuffle.

149462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 3, #210 of 1807 🔗

Yes, I find car parks are littered with discarded masks, surely a health hazard in itself.

149640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to JohnB, 2, #211 of 1807 🔗

I spotted 9 on a one mile walk yesterday

149504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 4, #212 of 1807 🔗

I had the same suspicion when the National Gallery jumped the gun and “recommended” then even before they were made mandatory and it was confirmed when I received an email from them informing me of their latest merchandise and yep, you can buy muzzles from them featuring 3 paintings from their permanent collection.

149651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #213 of 1807 🔗


149581 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 3, #214 of 1807 🔗

“Excuse me madam, I just saw you handle your mask, you will need to replace it, they are available at the tills, £5.00 for 5”.

149416 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to matt, 9, #215 of 1807 🔗

Thanks Matt. I’m just not sure if I can keep my cool if someone comes in to give me unsolicited ‘advice’ or harrasses one of my elderly customers (many of whom don’t really understand what the hell is going on).

149424 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 10, #216 of 1807 🔗

A nice winning article about a shop in America that displayed a no masks in ere sign, had a flirt with trouble, but ended up very much on top -lawfully. A nice tip is where to display the mandatory signsge.


149905 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 2, #217 of 1807 🔗

You don’t cook with extra virgin ?!?! I am aghast. 🙂

150103 ▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to JohnB, 1, #218 of 1807 🔗

Only really any good for dressings or sweating down onions; far too low a smoke point.

150244 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Miss Owl, 3, #219 of 1807 🔗

I mainly use it for haloumi, at low-medium heat. But always happy to learn. For seriously hot stuff, I use coconut oil. Feeling peckish now …

150259 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to JohnB, 1, #220 of 1807 🔗

My OH would throw up at the thought of halloumi! If you need any inspiration, I have a boeuf bourguignon bubbling away in the slow cooker for friends coming round tonight….

149413 ▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, 7, #221 of 1807 🔗

Saturday jobs are a great way of easing youngsters into adulthood. With your encouragement perhaps this young lady will learn a very valuable lesson indeed: decide what you believe to be right and stand by it – that she doesn’t have to be scared of a few weak-minded critical voices.

149418 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 30, #222 of 1807 🔗

It’s cruel that shop staff who worked from the start of lockdown and mostly decided not to wear masks must now do so 8-10 hours a day to, supposedly, placate the fears of bedwetter shoppers who only wear them for 10 or 30 minutes.

149423 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 24, #223 of 1807 🔗

Exactly. I might be reminding people that when the hysteria started, I have been treating people as human beings (I know, criminal behaviour, warranting a visit from the rozzers) and I would like to be treated likewise.

Dealing with the public was hard enough (excluding lovely regulars and their dogs in this description) but this crapfest has added a whole extra layer of stress.

149632 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to karenovirus, 5, #224 of 1807 🔗

Cruel and surely against Health and safety rules, which have always applied to employees much more so than the general public. All ignored by the media, only interested in the 10pm pub closing story.

149990 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to karenovirus, 6, #225 of 1807 🔗

I agree that it’s inhumane. Unfortunately, the masks are about fearmongering people into compliance with tyranny and not to placate anyone. MW

150061 ▶▶ Edward, replying to kh1485, 6, #226 of 1807 🔗

Anxiety IS a medical issue.

150875 ▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 5, #227 of 1807 🔗

I still can’t believe the shameful lack of opposition.
People like Jacob Rees Mogg, whilst not everyone’s cup of tea, seemed to have a sense of history and moral courage. Not afraid to speak out of a cause they believed right. They were quite prepared to show off their moral principles when they wanted to get rid of May and her withdrawal agreement.
This government is quite willing to use fear as a method of control. It is quite wrong. I hope eventually they will pay the price.

149388 JustMe, replying to JustMe, 24, #228 of 1807 🔗

Buying one of Toby’s Exempt lanyards has to be one of the best investments I have ever made. On Monday we flew from Manchester to Corfu. The missus insisted that I wear a mask on entering the airport (my Defund the BBC mask which I’ve only worn 4 times in the past – three of which was to get my hair cut). But when security swabbed my [Ipsos MORI standard issue] rucksack and said they’d found traces of explosive on the swab, I removed my mask and stuck to just wearing my lanyard. I had to be re-scannedby one of the security chaps – he was fine with me not wearing a mask, chatting away and joking with me – even holding the lanyard out of the way whilst waving his magic wand arround.
On the flight with easyJet there were plenty of reminders to wear your mask over the Tannoy. But the crew were delightful towards me, and we were in Row 2, so not exactly hidden away.
In the sleepy village of Arillas noone, in shops, bars or restaurants have raised an eyebrow, even though most other tourists are doing the brainwashed thing.
So a big thank you to Toby. I feel normal in this crazy world.

149395 ▶▶ annie, replying to JustMe, 21, #229 of 1807 🔗

A hearty second to that, The mere thought of being nappied makes me start to choke, and without the information gleaned here about exemptions and lanyards I’d have become a total recluse. LS has saved my life, at least any life worth living.

149567 ▶▶▶ Pum100, replying to annie, 7, #230 of 1807 🔗

Me too. Lanyard had changed my life. Husband and teenage sons complete sceptics now thanks to this site. Husband was ‘spoken to’ in Waitrose last night by two shop workers. Store was empty. They said they were now speaking to everyone not wearing a mask. He put them straight that he is exempt and does not need to explain why or wear a badge. They said he should wear a lanyard.

Interesting comment earlier up the line about how we never hear of anyone recovering? I would love to see a simple daily/monthly/yearly dashboard with these numbers:

patients in hospital with Covid (by age)
deaths from Covid (by age)
deaths with Covid (known co-morbidities, by age)
deaths with Covid (obese)
patients recovered/sent home

I take huge comfort from the graphs posted here showing low death rates currently. I am staggered at how many people I speak to who genuinely believe we are all at risk of death.

149924 ▶▶ JustMe, replying to JustMe, 2, #231 of 1807 🔗

Just got back from the beach. Whitty et al’s idea of controlling the virus is just as daft as the missus telling the sea to get back after our towels got wet 🙂

149397 Emily Tock, replying to Emily Tock, 17, #232 of 1807 🔗

In addition, to the ban on socialising, Scotland is not allowing uni students to go home as they will now be classed as different households. Are there not some 17-year-olds at Scottish unis? There certainly are at Irish unis – I have to go through yearly garda vetting because some of my students are minors, so what are the legal ramifications here? Declaring yourself head of a household as a minor in the US requires legal emancipation… This seriously needs a legal challenge. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18745882.students-across-scotland-told-not-return-home-visit-families/?ref=twtrec

149410 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Emily Tock, 3, #233 of 1807 🔗

Scots do start uni at 17 because their highers are shorter than our ‘A’-levels (one year as opposed to two) but their degrees are longer (four years as opposed to three).

149454 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Emily Tock, 24, #234 of 1807 🔗

Imagine being a fresher at a Scottish university. You haven’t really met anyone apart from the five people you’ve been put into accommodation with, and you aren’t sure you like them very much. All your interaction with tutors so far has been on screen in your bedroom, you can’t go to a pub and therefore meet other people you might like better, and you can’t go home to mum and dad for the weekend (or jack it all in and decide it’s not worth it) as it’s a separate household. This is now their reality – a prison cell, not a bedroom! We are going to see 18 year olds committing suicide over the next few weeks at this rate.

149496 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Now More Than Ever, 9, #235 of 1807 🔗

Aye, but we have to make sure there are enough gender neutral toilets in the university’s buildings – we don’t want someone to feel bad, do we!

149528 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Now More Than Ever, 5, #236 of 1807 🔗

I hope not, and instead when they are getting desperate they realise they do have the choice, just pack up and go home. Of course they aren’t breaking any laws, as you are allowed out of lockdown “to escape injury illness or risk of harm”

149659 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Now More Than Ever, 5, #237 of 1807 🔗

Quite a few already have, I have met three random people who have told me that they know a family who has had their 17-18 years olds kill themselves recently. I don’t get out much either. The suicide rate among youngsters WILL be going up EXPONENTIALLY.

149945 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Now More Than Ever, 2, #238 of 1807 🔗

We are going to see 18 year olds committing suicide over the next few weeks at this rate.

That would be very sad.

But as 18 year olds, the ‘law’ deems them fully functioning adults, entitled to vote, drive cars, serve in the military, etc. Personally, I think students who are seriously affected by this shite (as we all have been, and still are) will learn an awful lot about life, authority, responsibility, personal autonomy, and where their true priorities should lie. This probably should have been taken care of a tad more at school and at home, but better late than never. 🙂

149475 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Emily Tock, 10, #239 of 1807 🔗

Playing devils advocate they cannot be stopped from leaving surely, ignore it. Our glorious leader wants pubs and nightclubs shut forever and students are big spenders, fuck her, don’t give her the satisfaction.

149638 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to stefarm, 5, #240 of 1807 🔗

I wonder if, at last, she has miscalculated the mood on this one.

There’s an angle (if the opposition can be bothered) that she has put money – fees and hall rents – above health. Which is exactly what she accuses UK government of.

149398 annie, replying to annie, 6, #241 of 1807 🔗

Good to see a glimmer of sanity in the Grauniad. It’s liberally spattered with leftspeak, but any attempt to point out that the lefties’ natural election fodder is being hurt by the present bollox is greatly to be welcomed.

149422 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 1, #242 of 1807 🔗

I would have liked to read that piece in the roundup but it’s behind a subscription barrier. Damned if I’ll give the graun my details.

149399 Will, 7, #243 of 1807 🔗

Disappointed that Sweden haven’t increased gatherings to 500 but Tegnell still talking more sense than anyone else. Doubtless to the lockdown fetishists will be crowing about how Sweden is now, finally heading for its nemesis but I still think they will have a long wait. Especially as the prospect of a remotely functional vaccine recedes ever further over the horizon.

149405 Laurence, replying to Laurence, 9, #244 of 1807 🔗

You couldn’t make it up !

Well, who’d have guessed it – the geniuses of the world health establishment having failed dismally in schoolboy mathematics now fail their biology 101 practical. They tried to beat a virus with washing hands and paper masks – 4 billion years of evoluation ain’t that stupid !


149421 ▶▶ Will, replying to Laurence, 11, #245 of 1807 🔗

It is turning into a….. cold and guess what spreads colds? People touching their faces all day because they are wearing masks.

149996 ▶▶ RichT, replying to Laurence, 3, #246 of 1807 🔗

So by wearing masks we have increased the prevailence of the mutated virus, although the conclusion of the Telegraph article is not enough was done to stop the spread of the virus early .

149412 Albie, replying to Albie, 6, #247 of 1807 🔗

Just wondering, how long will it be before the cretin masses start up their weekly Thursday night NHS worship again?

149415 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Albie, 4, #248 of 1807 🔗

Won’t get much support if the people I talk to are typical.
We could try to relaunch it ourselves just to prove the point.

149417 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 28, #249 of 1807 🔗

First visit to our local pub last night. Guess what? Landlord is a sceptic. He has to follow the rules but much rolling of eyes and acknowledgement of how ridiculous the rules are. Telling us about his 90 year old grandma who refuses to hide in her home and taking advantage of her bus pass merrily takes bus journeys round the county most days.

Sadly, however, he and his wife have decided to get out of the pub game. Their lease ends in Feb 2021 and they won’t be renewing. Doubtful anyone will take it over in the current climate so the village loses its pub. How many more pubs will end up closing unless Boris comes to his senses?

149420 ▶▶ Will, replying to The Spingler, 9, #250 of 1807 🔗

TPTB will be delighted, especially if the pubs that are left continue to be banned from allowing people to meet, discuss, debate etc at the bar.

149662 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to The Spingler, 8, #251 of 1807 🔗

Thousands. Thousand have already closed anyway. Pubs are DEAD, it’s all by design. We cannot be allowed to freely associate.

149954 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to The Spingler, #252 of 1807 🔗

Good for granny. 🙂

Whereabouts please, spingler ?

149419 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #253 of 1807 🔗

Ealing Council leader saying we must take advantage of Covid re active travel infrastructure


Active travel = walk and get wet, ride a bike and get wetter faster.

149430 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 5, #254 of 1807 🔗

And catch pneumonia in the process. Genius!

149442 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #255 of 1807 🔗

Or get killed or injured in the process as there aren’t cycle lanes for bikes or pavements for walking so folk have to walk on roads.

149466 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JohnB, 4, #256 of 1807 🔗

The cycle lanes are encroaching at baffling speed and completely, utterly buggering up the traffic system from what I see. So don’t give them ideas.

149479 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 2, #257 of 1807 🔗

It’s all designed to give them the ammo to do this.

149964 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 1, #258 of 1807 🔗

‘baffling’ ? various reset agendas go into detail (if you can stomach reading them).

149627 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to JohnB, 2, #259 of 1807 🔗

Then you can be counted as a Covid death to get the numbers up so the fear mongering continues!!

149486 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Basics, 2, #260 of 1807 🔗

The speed at which most of these middle age new cyclists move they would walk and get wet faster.

149966 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to nottingham69, #261 of 1807 🔗

Think I read once that going slowly or hurrying makes no difference to how wet one gets.

149605 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #262 of 1807 🔗

They did that here three weeks into lockdown while normal roadworks lay abandoned.

149668 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 4, #263 of 1807 🔗

Active Travel…humm that’s a big new thing isn’t it. Our stupid bastard council has closed of a road near the train station and put wooden planters down it to allow for social distancing and also ACTIVE TRAVEL….What the actual flip is that all about? The road is empty, the train station is empty. It’s a box ticking exercise. Virtue signalling. I hate our council. I hate our town. I hate everybody in it.

149427 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #264 of 1807 🔗

In the roundup section of today’s newsletter there is a note about a Huff post article on false positives, so picking up on my earlier posts about stats I thought I would look at this another way;

NHS England stats for the 7 day period 16th to 22nd September.
Total admissions 1571
Total Covid patients in hospital rose from 894 to 1335 increase of 441
Total covid deaths 116
Total covid patients recovered and discharged 1014
Total new infections (dodgy pillar 2 test results) 26,118

So the 26,118 +ve tests results , gave rise to 1571 hospital admissions, so 6% of these +ve tests gave rise to admissions
Even then 1014 covid patients got well and were discharged so total number of covid cases in hospital only increased by 441 0r 1.7% of the total number testing +ve

So well over 90% of the +ve tests for that 7 day period were either false positives, asymptomatic or so slightly ill as to not cause a hospital visit.
That is a huge amount of public money going to test and trace over 24,000 people who were either not infected at all or who were so slightly infected that apart from the test no one would have noticed.

P.S. I appreciate the earlier points about many illnesses being falsely branded Covid but I do feel that even so, we need to check the official stats, which in this case do seem to beg some serious questions about our Covid policy.

149436 ▶▶ Henry, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #265 of 1807 🔗

Wouldn’t the current hospitalisation and mortality figures be in line with the test results/figures approximately 2 weeks ago. Thus the 26118 +ve tests over the last 7 days will be a reflected in the hospitalisation and mortality figures in 7-14 days time?

149483 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Henry, 3, #266 of 1807 🔗

Quite possibly I’ll leave you to crunch the numbers on that. To my mind the point is that this disease only justifies the current draconian actions if it is causing serious illness and death. The hospital stats indicate that there is relatively little serious illness and deaths, the testing stats indicate that for most people this disease is no worse than flu.

149523 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #267 of 1807 🔗

and only justifies draconian actions if it absolutely provenly clear that the actions dont cause more life years lost than the disease. This was never proved back in March, not for the summer and not now

149440 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #268 of 1807 🔗

The thing with these hospital admissions is that people aren’t being admitted for COVID-19. They are attending hospital for another illness, they have to have a mandatory test, which then comes back positive and most likely a false positive.

149447 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to JohnB, 7, #269 of 1807 🔗

Indeed, not an admission rather like catching MRSA in hospital, nobody goes to hospital with MRSA.

More smoke and mirrors

149491 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to JohnB, 4, #270 of 1807 🔗

Fair point but I do feel we still need to be aware of these official stats as they are being used to drive public health policy. What I feel is that when looked at critically even the official stats don’t justify the current draconian actions.

149636 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #271 of 1807 🔗

That’s true, there is going to be less deaths in September than July. This has all been ramped up so that the bill passes on the 29th September.

149429 Nic, 28, #272 of 1807 🔗

Firstly there will be no vaccine for years wish the government would admit this.
Secondly I would love to ask a doctor or medical expert do they think it is healthy to wear a face mask ,say in retail for possibly 10 hours a day.
Love to hear their reply

149432 Nic, replying to Nic, 8, #273 of 1807 🔗

In Toby’s report , Boris will hang on for a couple of years before being got rid off , 2 years ! The country will be a 3rd world basket case, if this twat is in the job that long , he needs to go now.

149449 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Nic, 1, #274 of 1807 🔗

Agreed. I am concerned for his mental health.

149474 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Moomin, 7, #275 of 1807 🔗

His? Lost cause.

149666 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to annie, 1, #276 of 1807 🔗

Good point!

149492 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Moomin, 3, #277 of 1807 🔗

Save your concern for the lives his government policies have destroyed

149667 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #278 of 1807 🔗

Good point!

149500 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Moomin, 3, #279 of 1807 🔗

Hmm, if he ever became sane, he would surely commit suicide as he came to realise the reality of what he has done.

149506 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to IanE, 4, #280 of 1807 🔗

He knows exactly what he is doing.

149456 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nic, 10, #281 of 1807 🔗

I don’t think replacing Boris will make any difference whatsoever. Nothing changes until all responsible are held to account.

149603 ▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #282 of 1807 🔗

I think that is true. I think they are globalist place-men, Rishi particularly as he is ex Goldman Sachs.

149674 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to charleyfarley, 5, #283 of 1807 🔗

Sunak’s wife is the daughter of one of the richest men in India, who’s company specialises in Working from home software. Nothing to see here.

149590 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Nic, 3, #284 of 1807 🔗

It’s already a basket case.

149885 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Nic, 2, #285 of 1807 🔗

The country will be a 3rd world basket case

You mean it isn’t already?

149435 Basics, replying to Basics, 38, #286 of 1807 🔗

The A&E story above has caused an amazing, almost unbelieveable NHS consultant fight back. Really well done to the cinsultants who have banded together are are standing up for what is right and decent. LSer Charlie Blue added the link to coments last night.

“CONSULTANTS have launched a fightback against a decision to shut children’s accident and emergency departments at two hospitals, warning that child safety is on the line.

“A raft of senior clinicians have joined the rebellion by signing three joint letters to the North London Partners – the overseeing body of health commissioners – warning the changes do not have their backing.”


We need much more of this inside the NHS.

149451 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Basics, 20, #287 of 1807 🔗

Children have been under attack from this government for 6 months now, their lives shutdown and futures destroyed. While clearly this is better then continued silence its does feel like very little very late.

149469 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Saved To Death, 18, #288 of 1807 🔗

I have been ‘spoken to’ by an NHS employee for suggesting the NHS is staffed by cowards and people who perhaps are not very clever – they more than any other group ought to understand just what the dangers are and what impact the NHS weird behaviour will mean to life in Britain.

The sorry fact is we need these types of resistence to pick up apace across the NHS in all settings. I will still be speaking to doctors that I encounter asking them how did they act during the covid closures, holding them to account to me. If that is awkward for them so be it – they have been a disgrace by and large.

But here now, a spark of sense has appeared – we must encourage more. It is right what the consultants have done. The act of banding together is a good one.

149501 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Basics, 6, #289 of 1807 🔗

I hope that spark turns into a raging inferno as that’s what we need.

149520 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #290 of 1807 🔗

I agree. Well said.

149600 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 2, #291 of 1807 🔗

Better late than never.

149473 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Saved To Death, 7, #292 of 1807 🔗

Surely all but the most terminally selfish zombies have to feel just a twinge of concern about children being denied treatment?

149519 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #293 of 1807 🔗

Saved to D – this morning twitter is reporting anecdotally that people’s operations and consuktancy meetings are being cancelled again. Without reason other than prepping for a ‘second wave’. The NHS are no longer there for us free at the point of need. They appear to be complicit in forstering death on our population. Liverpool Care Pathway to read more.

I mean to speak in the strongest possible terms of disgust at them.

Yet still we need them to stand up for what is morally and professionally right.

149576 ▶▶ alw, replying to Basics, 6, #294 of 1807 🔗

The response from Tulip Sadiq who is my MP as useless as ever. Have written to our Conservative Councillor, (we have three, the others LD and L), who is the the only one who engages with the local constituents asking him if he can organise a petition. Also asked what is happening at Royal Free as chemotherapy services now transferred to Finchley and a consultant friend who works at the RF has rented rooms in Harley St to see patients who can afford to see him. What about those who can’t?

Although the Conservative Party have lost my support now, I take my hat off to the constituency Conservative Party who have kept locals informed about what’s going on in the area with monthly email newsletters during this time.

149676 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 3, #295 of 1807 🔗

Don’t we have a need for more children’s emergency hospitals now as many more children are being admitted to hospitals due to head injuries caused by domestic violence?

149684 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 4, #296 of 1807 🔗

Only weeks into lockdown a Great Ormond St consultant was reporting rise in child head trauma at X 16 usual rates.

149754 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 2, #297 of 1807 🔗

That’s exactly what I was referring to.

149437 Yawnyaman, replying to Yawnyaman, 6, #298 of 1807 🔗

Re your point on Belgium, it looks from figures for the last couple of days that cases are levelling off there, if not falling. Similar story in Germany.

149448 ▶▶ matt, replying to Yawnyaman, 26, #299 of 1807 🔗

Stop it. Stop looking at actual facts. You’re supposed to be too terrified to be able to do maths.

149438 Dinger, 5, #300 of 1807 🔗

A bit unfortunate citing John Spellar as he’s boasting about his attendance at COBRA meetings during the foot and mouth crisis. Didn’t they rely on Ferguson’s modelling to kill off the British meat industry? Although a cost of £8bn is a drop in the ocean compared to now.

149443 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 3, #301 of 1807 🔗

NHS My Care portal goes live in ten days.

It’s gonna be ‘epic’.

149445 ▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 4, #302 of 1807 🔗

Will it? What does a portal do? Take you through to the other side for a visit?

My care portal sounds disappointing.

149683 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 4, #303 of 1807 🔗

It’s going to have a chat bot you can talk to.
Hi I’me Doctor Pixel
” please tell us why you have contacted us today”
“I think I have gastric reflux”
” you have ear wax”
“is this right?”

149852 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to karenovirus, 2, #304 of 1807 🔗

whats a ”my care portal” and will the elderly, living on there own, be able to; a)be able to use one b) be able to use one

149446 2 pence, 3, #305 of 1807 🔗

David Ellis reports on the policy of merging the police and military, which Boris Johnson has taken early steps towards through his Coronavirus response, and earlier via Operation Temperer. But how long has this policy been in the making, and whose policy is it anyway?


149452 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 53, #306 of 1807 🔗

I think the reason a lot of us on here swing like pendulums between optimism and pessimism is because around the country and around the world, the inexorable need for normality is slowly pushing through, but our leaders crack down with ever-restrictive measures to try and stem a tide which, frankly, cannot be stemmed. I see videos and hear reports on Twitter of other European countries which are as good as normal – a heaving club in Helsinki, pool parties in Wuhan, the new reports about easing restrictions in Belgium and of course good old Sweden. The reports about children being turned away from hospital and the Glasgow Nightingale being dismantled despite restrictions increasing are two stories which do not require interpretation of scientific data, or second guessing – they are just utterly nonsensical in every way. People WILL tire of this, we just haven’t given them enough time. Remember that it feels like a very long haul for us because we’ve been sceptical a lot longer than everyone else but patience is a virtue.

I think the way students are being treated at university has also pushed a lot of people over the edge. I imagine some of these students’ parents (but not all of them of course) probably had a ‘good’ lockdown – extra time with their children because they’d been sent home from school, save a bit of time and money working from home, more free time to do hobbies, etc. You know the story. It’s only when their kids not only leave home for the first time but also suffer, and needlessly suffer, that they start to wake up to how monstrous this government truly is.

I woke up feeling genuinely nauseous this morning at how young people are being treated – the Scottish pub ban on students is just cruel, especially because pubs aren’t actually closed and everyone else is allowed to visit them. I note that Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t have any children of her own. First we get scapegoated in the media and blamed for ‘killing granny’ and just having a normal life, and then we get locked up in what are quite literally maximum security prisons – and paying north of nine grand for the privilege (more including accommodation fees). In fact, universities are worse than prisons, because at least prisoners are allowed visitors! And threatening to stop students going home for Christmas is totally unworkable – as the wonderful Allison Pearson said on Twitter yesterday, if that happens then every mother in the country will have Matt Hancock’s guts for garters. I am all too aware at how fleetingly youth passes and we do not get this time back, and it is being stolen from us. If anyone thinks the current measures at university are justifiable and proportionate then God help them, they need their head checking.

My own bf goes back to university next week and unfortunately he is living in halls rather than private accommodation and so he will undoubtedly be treated like a prisoner. Bless him, he is really quite innocent and sees the best in people and assumes that restrictions will be lifted sometime next year so he’ll have some sort of ‘normal’ experience but I think it’s more to do with the fact that his parents have shelled out upwards of £7,500 for him to stay in this prison and he feels like he has to see that out. Avenues for refunds are very narrow. Well, we’ll see, I predict he’ll be living with me before Christmas. Sod the money, his mental and physical health are far more important.

149457 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Poppy, 14, #307 of 1807 🔗

I keep thinking we are reaching a tipping point. But it just never comes.

149471 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Now More Than Ever, 17, #308 of 1807 🔗

It is coming. It is just happening very slowly and incrementally. Remember that schools haven’t been back that long yet, universities have only just gone back, furlough hasn’t ended (and now won’t for another 6 months but they cannot keep it going forever as it is unsustainable) and we haven’t had the cold, dark, miserable months of winter in lockdown yet. Just wait.

149467 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Poppy, 12, #309 of 1807 🔗

That is a positive Nicola Sturgeon has no children. I tend to agree Johnson will struggle to keep the lid on beyond October, next week’s events in HOC will be pretty crucial.

The gathering of 6 restrictions were an own goal. That rule hits a lot at the way much of the media and ruling class live their lives. JHB a perfect example, they don’t like it. If they had made it 10 they might have got away with it.

149478 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to nottingham69, 12, #310 of 1807 🔗

Actually if Sturgeon had grown-up kids maybe one or all of them might try to make her see sense. She is a heartless authoritarian.

149530 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to jhfreedom, 7, #311 of 1807 🔗

Of course but the apple doesn’t often fall from the tree. It is a mild comfort she will leave no succession. Sturgeon is gruesome one is enough. These authoritarian leftists are massively nepotistic.

149656 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to jhfreedom, 6, #312 of 1807 🔗

She mentioned a nephew to try to gain sympathy didn’t she? Desperate.

Presumably the current joyless student experience mirrors her own 30 years ago? Looks like she’s never had a moment of fun in her life

149529 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to nottingham69, 6, #313 of 1807 🔗

6 not including kids would have been absolutely no problem. Especially if they had highlighted the numerous studies from around the world that show transmission from children is all but non-existent. The ancillary benefit would have been to highlight how disgracefully selfish and cowardly the teaching profession are.

149599 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Will, 3, #314 of 1807 🔗

Yes can’t disagree. Unfortunately Hancock is welded to the asymptomatic spread to granny myth and the government education policy disaster is a result.

149468 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 12, #315 of 1807 🔗

With you all the way, Poppy.

149472 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Poppy, 7, #316 of 1807 🔗

Chin up or chin down as we are taking a few blows and might be on the ropes but keep ducking and weaving and using the jab and we will win.

149477 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 12, #317 of 1807 🔗

Well said Poppy. I think the young people who decided to defer or even not bother with uni have dodged a bullet but I feel sorry for those who have to put up with being treated like inmates of the Gulag Archipelago.

I think the way students are being treated at university has also pushed a lot of people over the edge. I imagine some of these students’ parents (but not all of them of course) probably had a ‘good’ lockdown – extra time with their children because they’d been sent home from school, save a bit of time and money working from home, more free time to do hobbies, etc. You know the story. It’s only when their kids not only leave home for the first time but also suffer, and needlessly suffer, that they start to wake up to how monstrous this government truly is.

Add in their own incomes, savings and pensions taking a hit. I do hope so because its some of these parents who have been the most vocal supporters of lockdown, social distancing and masks. They have been complicit in the misery being imposed of us so if they’re waking up because of how Tarquin and Jemima are being treated by their universities then It Can Only Be A Good Thing.

149493 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #318 of 1807 🔗

I switched to online studying only (was originally face to face) and am living off campus this year because the restrictions just made it so utterly joyless that I’m not going to waste money commuting into university if it just isn’t worth it. Also don’t want to run the risk of someone in my class (with whom I will have had no contact) testing ‘positive’ and then having to lock myself up for 2 weeks when I probably won’t end up developing symptoms myself.

Indeed – I know several people who used to support lockdown or at least were ambivalent about it, and as soon as it affected them personally, they became sceptics. Funny that.

149512 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 6, #319 of 1807 🔗

As I keep saying – wait until they’re hit in the pocket and stomach and they’ll do a U turn faster than one can say “Covid 19”

Still praying for many of my colleagues to see sense, even the threat of redundancy hasn’t woken them up yet.

149552 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Poppy, 3, #320 of 1807 🔗

Same, I go to my local one but can’t face all the stupid hygeine theatre.

151892 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Poppy, #321 of 1807 🔗

Keep going Poppy; you are the future and we are all thinking of you!

149489 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Poppy, 6, #322 of 1807 🔗

Well, I agree with most of that – though, personally, I swing, nowadays, between pessimism and extreme pessimism. Nobody who covets power and has tasted it gives it up without an almighty struggle.

149490 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Poppy, 4, #323 of 1807 🔗

As Charlie Munger says: Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome.

Universities are incentivised to keep students as they receive money for it. They will fight tooth and nail to not refund people. The problem is that basic rights are being trampled on which will lead to lawsuits, where the university will lose more money.

It happens with the false rape claims against students and the Title IX kangaroo courts in the US.

149533 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to mhcp, 4, #324 of 1807 🔗

Well indeed, I also wonder if the universities will start lobbying governments to lift restrictions as student satisfaction rates will go through the floor and if there is one thing students get very angry about (from my experience), it’s the ridiculous fees.

149553 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Poppy, 5, #325 of 1807 🔗

Thumbs up to your last sentence. Mental and physical health is more important than money.

149568 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Silke David, 1, #326 of 1807 🔗

Very hard to have either without it, ask people in the 3rd world.

149716 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 4, #327 of 1807 🔗

I totally agree but in the context of my sentence, I meant that his health was more important than the fees. Universities are so eye-wateringly greedy anyway.

149593 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Poppy, 4, #328 of 1807 🔗

Good summary Polly, and I think you’re right. My concern is that this covid 19 is merely “Round 1”. It may all fizzle out but what will the people behind it come back with next year? I can’t get that footage of Bill Gates out of my mind, where he says we “will notice the next one”, with that maniacal grin on his face.

149891 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to charleyfarley, #329 of 1807 🔗
150421 ▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Kevin 2, #330 of 1807 🔗
150842 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Kevin 2, #331 of 1807 🔗

No. Just watched Dolores Cahill on You Tube – date of 22/09/20. Sorry – as a technophobe can’t upload a link. It’s a very good watch and makes me feel hopeful.

149607 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Poppy, 2, #332 of 1807 🔗

There was a great ,very long vid. from a young bloke in St. Petersburg, he was wandering about on crowded streets, in and out of cafes and encountered street musicians now licensed by the state , he went to a Porsche car show and a gig ,later a bar, with a running commentary in English, very few masks about, It looked NORMAL and FUN!

150062 ▶▶ RichT, replying to Poppy, 3, #333 of 1807 🔗

As a “keyworker” delivering shopping we were given a bottle of hand sanitiser and told to get on with it, while many were having (as a friend of my mums told her) “the best time of their lives”. We had lovely weather and the country lanes, that made up a large part of my delivery area, were crowded with people taking leisurely walks. Getting 80% of their pay or more for doing nothing, somewhat clouded their judgement. Now many have gone back to work or have no job at all, life is not looking quite as rosey.

149464 Bart Simpson, 7, #334 of 1807 🔗

Feel sorry for young people and children – the former because university rather than becoming a rite of passage for them has become more like being an inmate at the Lubyanka or Dachau concentration camp while the latter is being betrayed by the No Health Service thereby condemning them to complications and possibly early death.

Either way both will be screwed both mentally and physically. Is that what the government wants?

Met up with a friend yesterday and where we went for coffee and cake, was asked for my mask (which was the first time). Told her I was exempt and the staff member apologised. No escape from T&T though so I gave a fake name and phone number.

Ironically the shops we visited were much more laid back, apart from a sad looking hand sanitiser bottle which looked like it had not been used for weeks, it was fairly normal and one of the staff despite being muzzled had a fairly long chat with me without any antisocial distancing.

149481 muzzle, replying to muzzle, 25, #335 of 1807 🔗

If this is the new normal, I think the economy is really screwed. Since lockdown, we’ve been going out and about as a family doing pretty much anything we were allowed to do. Eating out was the most normal thing so that was popular. Last night was a trip to Five Guys and then the cinema. I feel like it’s all just moved up to another level of silly. As an example, having to shout to staff through my mask, the perspex screen and whatever else the staff member is wearing to ‘keep us safe’. Well, we’re hibernating now. I’m not spending my money on this humiliating shit show.

149535 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to muzzle, 14, #336 of 1807 🔗

That’s a really good point. I’ve noticed that masks are making people stand closer together, than they would normally if speaking. ” What was that?” then lean in to hear what each other are saying.

149555 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #337 of 1807 🔗

How else are we going to catch a lurgy which can then be dressed up as covid

149558 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #338 of 1807 🔗

As I do not wear a face covering, I like to keep distance, although in my area hardly any +PCR. Really difficult to get people to keep distance since face coverings.

149579 ▶▶ Motke, replying to muzzle, 10, #339 of 1807 🔗

I agree. Last week I went to a restaurant for the first time since March and it was an utterly soulless experience. You have to wear masks before you are seated and then put them on again as you leave (in case the virus catches you on the way out). Food served by mumbling, faceless zombies. Hibernation for me too.

149485 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 9, #340 of 1807 🔗

Just listening to another “expert” on the radio warning students “not to mingle and to social distance/ lock yourself away and learn on line,etc” because in American universities there was 60,000 cases of CV.
Yes, but how many of those 60,000 died or were even admitted to hospital?
Strangely quiet on that question!

149503 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #341 of 1807 🔗

Zero. But you knew that. Entire football team tests positive, all asymptomatic… Seems like maybe that would say something.

149524 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RyanM, 5, #342 of 1807 🔗

And then on the minus side there was a piece on our local ( BBC West Midlands) tv station about a football team ( all built like outside toilet blocks) who refused to play their next game because one of the players tested positive for CV despite the FA saying that they could play and even telling them that they would be fined if they refused.
Young healthy men( I refer you to the comment in the previous paragraph)

149532 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to RyanM, 2, #343 of 1807 🔗

There was a post a few days ago, about a German football team that lost 0-33, as they only had 7 players, due to social distancing. Maybe urban myth, but I thought it was amusing.

149547 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #344 of 1807 🔗

I think I read somewhere for the US, 2 students admitted to hospital since August, ZERO deaths.

149560 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #345 of 1807 🔗

Out of how many students? 6 Million? People forget to put it into proportion!

150181 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Silke David, #346 of 1807 🔗

This is the problem, to use a phrase from the distant past: “They are not telling lies,they are just being uneconomical with the truth”

149498 Basics, 4, #347 of 1807 🔗

The Govnt is lying. They know anyone who wants to read into what we are told by them knows they are lying.

“Reading the transcript of
Whitty/Vallance [Bill and Ben] lecture yesterday. I quote: “so about eight per cent, so 3 million or so people, may have been infected and have antibodies. It means that the vast majority of us are not protected in any way and are susceptible to this disease”.

“Now had he said this on the floor of the House, he would have been guilty of misleading the House & made to come back, apologise profusely & set the record straight. But he wasn’t & also didn’t take any questions. I have to tell you that it’s not a matter of opinion. He’s LYING.”


“That our curve is the same shape as that in multiple other countries, including Sweden, ignoring our puny efforts to influence transmission of this respiratory virus, tells us with 100%…
…confidence that a substantial proportion of the U.K. population has already been infected & most have survived. Crucially it’s been demonstrated by at least 4 “Oxbridge quality” labs in several countries around the world, than in all cases, 20-50% of people had T-cell immune..
..recognition of SARS-COV-2 BEFORE the new virus was even identified. Add those newly infected to those already resistant to the virus, and there is the locus of the force bearing down on transmission. There isn’t any serious doubt about it.”


149502 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 11, #348 of 1807 🔗

With regards to Sturgeon, I think her enthusiastic role is in some way compensating for her knock-down and fall from grace with the whole Alex Sammond sex allegations affair. Sammond never backed down and saw what those allegations were: cheap smear tactics.

Sturgeon used the situation (and may have actually been involved in the planning of it) but it came back to her.

Her spin into some protector of Scotland is just vanity and ego. I think the closing of the hospital will start to strip that down again.

149551 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mhcp, 4, #349 of 1807 🔗

Shes not coming out of the situations she in in well. She knows it. She looking properly sleep deprived during the end of the house arrest stages. She knows what is badly buried, she also know the calibre of those who are waiting to shred her reputaion in history. A haunted person is what she looks like to me.

149563 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Basics, 7, #350 of 1807 🔗

Wee, sleekit, cow’rin, tim’rous beastie,
O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!

149608 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #351 of 1807 🔗

..a parcel ‘o rogues in a nation.

149507 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 10, #352 of 1807 🔗

a question was raised here yesterday that I’ve been pondering

How do we know if a vaccine works?

They develop a vaccine, give it to some young and healthy volunteers who are then exposed to covid-19

they either

1 – become very ill – either the vaccine is dangerous or doesn’t work
2 – they are fine – either the vaccine worked or they just fought it off

How do you test the efficacy of a vaccine that causes no or mild symptoms in your test group?

I can hardly see them using the hyper-vulnerable as a test group but these are the only people we can test its efficacy on

149510 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to steve_w, 6, #353 of 1807 🔗

Let the lockdown fanatics find out.

149526 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to karenovirus, 8, #354 of 1807 🔗

I can see the whole vaccine thing just fizzling out and next year we will all be asking ‘what happened to all those vaccines?’

149544 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to steve_w, 5, #355 of 1807 🔗

I agree. I think they’ll still be looking in five years time (or not bothering at all).

149550 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Achilles, 3, #356 of 1807 🔗

Its like Sars – I don’t think there are any more attempts to find a vaccine for that.

149556 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #357 of 1807 🔗

Still looking for the AIDS magic bullet, 30+ years of enormous expenditure later.

149672 ▶▶ kf99, replying to steve_w, 1, #358 of 1807 🔗

Imperial: “ To show that the vaccine protects individuals from being infected with COVID-19 in the long-term, the Phase III trial will need to study a large population over approximately one year. The team will know that the trial has been a success if the group who receive the vaccine has fewer people with COVID-19 compared to the group that received the placebo.”

So 2022 before any results?

149738 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to kf99, 1, #359 of 1807 🔗

If they use the PCR test, how will they possibly know?

150564 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #360 of 1807 🔗

They will do 10 cycles for those receiving the vaccine and 45 for those not receiving the vaccine.

149727 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to steve_w, 7, #361 of 1807 🔗

Yes, they are trying to expose them to the virus. But they are not challenging them with the virus (yet at least). In the UK AZN P2 of AZD1222 (Oxford vaccine), they were specifically recruiting volunteers in what were deemed high risk settings (typically healthcare) with the intention being to build up a pool of subjects who actually contracted the virus, and then make a comparison between the treatment arm and the control arm (another vaccine), and determine whether the AZD1222 treatment arm virus contractors had preferentially milder symptoms and a good antibody response!

For the large P3 they went international to try and find an environment where virus contraction was more likely! Hence they started a Brazil arm, a S. Africa arm, an India arm and a US arm, as well as the UK arm.

There are no claims that AZD1222 prevents infection. Indeed in the pre-clinical monkey study all the vaccinated macaques contracted the virus and had symptomatic illness.
The P3 widened the age criteria, I believe, accepting paediatric subjects (as young as 5) and upping the top age. But there remained exclusion criteria to disclude anyone with a significant pre-existing illness.

Then we had two clinical holds due to serious adverse events, one multiple sclerosis and one transverse myolitis. The first hold was not contemporaneously announced. It was only divulged after the second hold. The official line is that these SAE’s were unlikely to have been caused by the vaccine. However, the US regulator, the FDA, is not yet sufficiently satisfied regarding the TM case to lift the hold in the US, and has asked AZN for biological samples. Interestingly the US arm (which never really got going) is using a proper inert saline solution for its control arm. This was because of a legal challenge basically compelling US vaccine trials to use a proper placebo for control and not another vaccine.
The other countries have resumed the trial.

Your questions are very well put. And none of the trials will answer them.
Any vaccine recipient is likely to experience the range of common side-effects associated with an active vaccine, including possible rash, raised temperature and possible fever. These would normally be short-lived effects. This is without exposure to the virus.
The US control arm using a proper inert control would be unlikely to cause these effects.

Then what happens when subjects actually contract the virus? Seeing as all these subjects are healthy, only zero to mild symptoms would be expected anyway. This will be regardless of which arm they were on. However , what has been seen previously in previous Coronavirus (not Covid-19) animal studies, is a paradoxical disease enhancement process, whereby the immune system becomes dysregulated, sometimes leading to auto-immune disorders. TM is an auto-immune disorder.

If you had a third matched (equally healthy) observational arm that received no vaccine of any sort, you would not see any of the (normally) mild early vaccine reactions. And you would be very unlikely to see an auto-immune disorder after virus infection. And you would be likely to see something between an asymptomatic infection and a mildly symptomatic infection. You would expect to see a longlasting T-cell memory response conferring sustained immunity.
You may or may not see an antibody response. Antibodies tend not to persist long-term.

In the AZD1222 treatment arm, in a subject who contracted the virus, you would hope to see symptom reduction (compared to the control vaccine) and a lower viral load (compared to the control vaccine) and you would hope to see antibody development and perhaps also an activated T-cell response). A lower viral load might reduce the infectivity of the subject. But in a third hypothetical matched control arm (which doesn’t exist), you would expect to see a good T-cell response and low viral load anyway.

As you suggest, those with advanced age and / or comorbidities are not in the trial anyway.
So it is anybody’s guess how an 80 yr old with heart disease or cancer would react to a vaccine. But these vulnerable groups are likely to be the first to be ‘offered’ the vaccine.

There are, for sure, other issues associated with an RNA vaccine such as the Moderna candidate. But my comments here primarily refer to the Oxford vaccine, AZD1222.

Personally, if I were to contract the virus, I would prefer my own immune system to deal with it.
Nature’s vaccine.

149511 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 13, #362 of 1807 🔗

Stop Press 2: Belgium has abandoned the PCR test because it’s too unreliable. From now on, decisions about whether to tighten or relax restrictions will be based on hospitalisations.

is there a link for this? I want to email my MP with it

149543 ▶▶ IanE, replying to steve_w, 2, #363 of 1807 🔗

Yes please – #me too!

149844 ▶▶ Will Jones, replying to steve_w, 4, #364 of 1807 🔗

Link here https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/132481/belgiums-security-council-introduces-long-term-coronavirus-strategy/ – now added above. Also the story has been updated to be more accurate – they’ve moved away from using the PCR test as the main measure of the epidemic rather than abandoned it completely (sadly). Apologies for getting it wrong at first.

149515 AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #365 of 1807 🔗

Boris Johnson threatens to bring in the army using con tricks and fantasy number games


149516 Darek, replying to Darek, 5, #366 of 1807 🔗

“Belgium has abandoned the PCR test because it’s too unreliable. From now on, decisions about whether to tighten or relax restrictions will be based on hospitalisations.” – is there any source for this? Thank you very much in advance

149546 ▶▶ hat man, replying to Darek, 5, #367 of 1807 🔗

For what it’s worth, here is an article on a Belgian news site from yesterday, highlighting the massive cost of PCR testing:
It’s in French, but interestingly shows a PCR machine. After James Ferguson’s LS article the other day I looked to see the notice on the side saying ‘Not to be used for diagnosis’. Can’t see it, though. It was would be nice to know it’s on the other side.

149522 Sue, replying to Sue, 13, #368 of 1807 🔗

Listening to all the sanctimonious mugs on the radio talking glibly about job losses knowing full well that they are protected – makes me angry and sad.

But I have a proposal… that for every 250,000 jobs lost there should be 1 member of parliament who is cut with immediate effect with no payout. That may focus the minds of those MPs and all their twaddle!
Why should the private sector take the hit in this shitshow while all those on the public purse are sitting comfortably – they should take their share of pain in jobs and fear!

149554 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sue, 8, #369 of 1807 🔗

And add 2 senior civil servants with no redundancy pay and no pensions. That should put the fear of God in them and remind them that they’re not invincible.

149561 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sue, 9, #370 of 1807 🔗

I also have a proposal that if a vaccine comes out all the cabinet and their families must have it administered on live TV a year before it is rolled out to the public. If it’s safe they should be fine with that.

150047 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Achilles, 2, #371 of 1807 🔗

Plus it has to be the proper one and not a placebo. Good idea about administering it on live TV – could be a reality show.

149586 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Sue, 2, #372 of 1807 🔗

When the day comes that the lending is stopped the Public Sector will get whacked and big.

149975 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sue, #373 of 1807 🔗

what a good idea!

149531 Silke David, 3, #374 of 1807 🔗

Ok, so it was a cold evening last night, but the Pub next door and the courtyard very nearly empty. SAD, SAD, SAD. Usually very popular, and I know the owners are struggling.
Hope the weekend will be better!

149534 Will, replying to Will, 10, #375 of 1807 🔗

Just turned off classic fm as they are having, I quote “an NHS covid app weekend”…

149545 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Will, 5, #376 of 1807 🔗

Quick roll of eyes followed by how desperate are they?

Classic FM listens are a chosen demograph.

The app requires quite a modern high end phone. It is the poorest areas of Britain that saw the most deaths from Covid19.

149549 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Will, 2, #377 of 1807 🔗

Try RS Classic, http://www.radioswissclassic.ch/en , no ads clear brief descriptions (plus the odd Swiss public safety announcement but not for a while).

149565 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #378 of 1807 🔗

Cheers for this. I’m liking what I’m listening to so far.

149868 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #379 of 1807 🔗

Thanks for that recommendation Nigel, just tuned it on my internet radio.

If you don’t have one of these, they are a great way to get around propaganda and ads – at least Boris’s anyway. The trick is to tune into foreign stations. You might still get propaganda and ads, but unless you are multi lingual you wont be able to understand them so they wont bother you!

Cunning plan eh?

149577 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Will, 3, #380 of 1807 🔗

I gave up on Classic FM months ago.

Same old music over and over, all laced with woke propaganda and Covid fear porn.

And the twee presenters reminding us about “social distancing” are just the icing on the cake.


150053 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to PaulH, 1, #381 of 1807 🔗

Boycotted them after they put that BLM twaddle on their Arsebook account. And good point about the same music again over and over, none of the challenging stuff from the likes of Prokofiev, Bruckner, etc.

150112 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #382 of 1807 🔗

Isn’t Ludovici Einaudi the most boring composer of all time? – makes Karl Jenkins sound like Xenakis.

150105 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to PaulH, 1, #383 of 1807 🔗

I usually have the radio on when cooking & eating around 6 to 7pm and I still prefer Classic FM to BBC Radio 3’s “In Tune” with the dreadful Sean Rafferty gabbling on with some boring studio guest. I just want to hear music, not a lot of yakking. On Classic FM you get Mozart’s clarinet concerto for the 500th time but that’s still better than R3. And I can shout something rude at the coronavirus propaganda adverts.

149657 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Will, 1, #384 of 1807 🔗

even Talk radio have the new government NHS ads .. But then revenue is revenue…. and government are spending millions on ads

150539 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Will, #385 of 1807 🔗

Today at work we implemented this. Most people wanted to do it manual and give name and phone number. One gentleman, I think just scanned the thing with a normal app, and it came up as Chinese plywood supplier.
Compliance was high, although I took 1 Matt Hancock down.

149539 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #386 of 1807 🔗

Sneaking in under the radar:


Reading it looks like the “implied powers” are not good enough at a tribunal so need enshrined in law.

Plus Official Secrets Act being reviewed and a new Espionage Act – just like the Treason legislation.

Why now?

149542 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #387 of 1807 🔗

Good year to bury bad news!

149673 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #388 of 1807 🔗

I read that stuff yesterday and it sent shivers down my spine. What with this outrage, the lab flu and Brexit we are rapidly becoming a third world failed state.

149707 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 2, #389 of 1807 🔗

Rapidly becoming a failed state???
The UK was heavily criticised by the the European poverty watchdog for having the highest levels of child poverty in the whole of Europe last year.


The UK has been a basket case for a long long time.

149540 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #390 of 1807 🔗

Sky News are covering a new Sky Drama called No Masks. It is a series of actors playing emergency workers acting out a script based on the traumatic experiences of real emergency workers.

‘No Masks’ will likely be a quote refering to those stupid buggers who don’t wear a mask, well they don’t see they damage their open breathing does, we do – kind of a deal.

Sky Arts will be showing the drama apparently that is a free channel, so only need to pay £ 160 to the bbc to get a good hit of propaganda.

149654 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 2, #391 of 1807 🔗

yes – sky arts suddenly turned up on freeview last week. Sky news has always been there.. So now 2 sky propaganda channels. (and sky sports still littered with BLM logos and adverts
there is a push on at the moment. the soaps are back – all the cast following guidelines etc. I mentioned yesterday Breakfast TV featuring stories of people affected by covid. Man died from covid etc. .Nothing about those adversely affected by lockdown.

149708 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Basics, 3, #392 of 1807 🔗

Emotionally blackmailing propaganda like this does not wash with me. It shows that they’ve run out of rational arguments.

Also, I would hope that emergency workers would know what they were signing up for when they went into the profession. They should have been aware that there would be very stressful and emotionally destructive aspects to the job before they got it. No one is forcing them to work there.

149541 Laura, replying to Laura, 8, #393 of 1807 🔗

Most days, this site is the only thing that keeps me from jumping off a cliff. Thank you Toby. And I feel like I always have to say I’m a liberal and us liberals don’t know what we are doing in the U.S. – pushing Trump into power with these insane restrictions on our freedom and liberty. And forgetting about what lost jobs and “a shattered economy” actually means – people’s lives.

149609 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Laura, 3, #394 of 1807 🔗

I find it equally keeps me from and makes me want to jump.

149548 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 19, #395 of 1807 🔗

Seeing as how I can’t see my dentist, get a GP appointment, get a hospital referral or now get my child treated in hospital if she is sick I was just wondering when my tax rebate will be? Anyone know?

149572 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Achilles, 1, #396 of 1807 🔗

It turns out its much more expensive to get away with shutting down your medical care then it is to continue to provide it.

149574 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Achilles, 5, #397 of 1807 🔗

Unfortunately I have no idea but would like to go one step further, how does one stop paying one’s taxes? Given the government has been pretty much nonexistent so I should get my money back.

149680 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #398 of 1807 🔗

I want all of it back. Declare personal independence.

149711 ▶▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #399 of 1807 🔗

“how does one stop paying one’s taxes?”

You could try telling them that you’re only willing to pay taxes in labour – because it’s illegitimate for them to demand payment in a form you have no natural capacity to supply (anyone who feels up to it can find a longer version of that argument here ).

149575 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Achilles, 7, #400 of 1807 🔗

Ironic isn’t it? A medical dictatorship, where the one thing you can’t get is medical treatment.

150064 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to PaulH, 2, #401 of 1807 🔗

Calling it the National Health Service is an insult to the British people. If it was a private company it would have been prosecuted under the Trades Description Act for misleading the public.

It should now be known as the following:

National Covid Service

No Health Service
No Help Service
No Hope Service

149557 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #402 of 1807 🔗

The time has/will come soon, for Boris and Co to admit, and come to terms with the fact that CV is endemic. It cannot be eradicated, and even if it could, it would mean killing the economy and the bulk of the UK population to achieve that. Once that has been accepted, the logical and only solution is a completely new strategy. I suspect Rishi will be the focal point for the ‘path breakage’ event. I’m not convinced he has what it takes to be PM, but he is good enough in the short-term to use as an excuse for a change in strategy for the party.

149559 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #403 of 1807 🔗

Their intention is to kill the economy and the bulk of the UK population. This has nothing to do with CV.

149592 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Saved To Death, 5, #404 of 1807 🔗

I think there are certain people in and around Boris and the scientific community who have those ‘ambitions’, but that is not the case for the bulk of the Tory party. Boris has been captured and he is mentally ill. It is not his policies being pursued. Those people were waiting for their opportunity to destroy as much of western capitalism as they could, then CV came along. We still do not know who ‘ordered’ what, and when. In the event of an inquiry with full powers of subpoena, an email and text trawl from 23/24 January 2020 to 16 March 2020 would expose both.

149630 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #405 of 1807 🔗

I do agree the Boris has been captured. Everyone is under severe mental strain at the moment. I do think our politicians are largely merely puppets on a string. When I say ‘they’ I am referring more too that string pullers then the puppets but I do think the puppets know very well what they are doing. We always have choice even as puppets.

Every sitting MP has been complicit to some extent. Every member of government is neck deep. Replacing Boris with Rishi will do nothing to change our velocity. The only reason this will happen is if its felt it will provide enough political capital – wool to pull over the sheeps eyes – to continue the destruction of the economy and murder of the British people a little longer before we revolt.

As you say we need an inquire with full power of subpoena. I think we also need to immediate arrest of the government and its advisers – including Rishi – to ensure this can take place without those who have clearly been corrupted by powerful interests in a position to continue to cover up.

149710 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Saved To Death, #406 of 1807 🔗


149571 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #407 of 1807 🔗

Exactly! Surely we can never totally eradicate the virus until it has run it’s course and then be a seasonal problem like flu, colds etc. Unlikely to get a totally effective vaccine if at all, so we need to live with it.
It would be good if the government could actually inform us of what their strategy/goal actually is, and the measures to achieve that may make more sense.

149849 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #408 of 1807 🔗

I fear that the fear will be perpetuated just as long as it takes for the de facto mandatory vaccine to be rolled out. It is immaterial whether it affords any medical benefit; it’s what comes bundled with it (digital health passport with payment card) that is the real purpose.
A change of Govt figurehead is unlikely to change anything, imo. All are controlled by the Cummings / ‘Public Health’ cabal.
Anything short of a full-on multi-party parliamentary rebellion will not stop the vaccine juggernaut.

149562 Ovis, replying to Ovis, 6, #409 of 1807 🔗

A question that needs to be put to those making policy on the treatment of students:
What do you consider to be the maximum acceptable increase in the suicide rate?
And what if any changes will you make to your policy if that level is exceeded?

It is undeniable that policy makers consider some rise in the suicide rate to be acceptable in the context of the benefits conferred by their policy. But that needs to be quantified to give a sense of what success and failure mean.

149566 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Ovis, 5, #410 of 1807 🔗

Absolutely valid but remember your dealing with a group of people who didn’t even think it necessary to analyse or quantify what the negative effects of a lockdown could be before they implemented it.

149570 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Ovis, 9, #411 of 1807 🔗

What I cant understand is how the suicide of an 18-20 year old can possibly be an acceptable loss to save someone of average age 82. I’m sorry to any older people out there but I am pretty sure you probably feel the same way if you’re on here.

149698 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Ovis, 8, #412 of 1807 🔗

No rise in suicide rate is acceptable because these are young people with their entire lives ahead of them who will be dying to save someone else who is at the end of their life. That’s not proportionate, from a utilitarian standpoint. You could argue that a young person also has much more to put into society than someone at the end of their life, and a lot of the tax revenue these young people will end up paying when they do get a job will go towards funding the elderly and economically inactive. This is why an ageing population combined with a falling birth rate is a demographic crisis waiting to happen but I digress.

All deaths are awful for the individuals involved but I think suicides are much more damaging on a societal level and they are also one of the most devastating ways to die. Imagine being so in despair and so hopeless at such a young age, when you have so much to offer to the world, that you come to the decision to go against one of the most hardwired human instincts – self preservation – and take your own life. Societies are meant to invest in young people because they are the future, so if our young people feel as if there is no future, then we have failed as a civilised society. How is that possibly less bad than an 80 year old dying of respiratory illness at the end of a good life.

149809 ▶▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Poppy, 1, #413 of 1807 🔗

I totally agree with most of what you say there, Poppy, but …

“All deaths are awful for the individuals involved”

Do you really believe that the natural end of life is inevitably awful? Isn’t that belief a large part of what’s driving the irrational response to this virus?

150111 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Malcolm Ramsay, #414 of 1807 🔗

I agree with you, like I said, the elderly dying is a tragedy for the individual’s families but on a societal level, it is not a tragedy in the same way the suicide of a young person is.

150249 ▶▶▶▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Poppy, 1, #415 of 1807 🔗

But why do you think someone dying at the end of a long life is a tragedy for the individual’s family? We surely don’t want people to live forever so we have to want them to die sometime. As long as everybody treats death as some kind of failure, it’s no wonder people can’t think straight about it.

149564 stefarm, 4, #416 of 1807 🔗

Probably shared before but doesn’t hurt.



to a person responsible for a relevant place or an employee of that person acting in the course of their employment;

5.—(1) Where a relevant person considers that another person is, at the time of entering the relevant place, not wearing a face covering, in contravention of the requirement in regulation 3, the relevant person may deny entry to the relevant place to that person.

(3) A person who is responsible for a relevant place includes the owner, proprietor, tenant or manager of the relevant place.



Those exempt under the guidance and regulations do not have to prove their exemption and should not be made to wear a face covering or denied access to public transport, shops or public places. We ask for people to be aware of the exemptions and to treat each other with kindness.

149569 PaulH, replying to PaulH, 16, #417 of 1807 🔗

Thanks again Toby for all your (thankless) hard work on this site and elsewhere.

I know you have always said that this is a cock-up rather than a conspiracy and I sincerely hope that you are right.

My problem with that theory is all this talk of a “New Normal”, the WEF Reset, ID2020 and so on – not to mention that any sensible ideas always fall on deaf ears. And since when did a winter flu-bug come with new cycle lanes and “health passports” attached?

I hope you are keeping an open mind on all this.

Because from where I am sitting, it looks increasingly as though they are spinning out the fear and keeping this going until they can bring in the changes they wanted all along.

149637 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to PaulH, #418 of 1807 🔗

At the beginning of this I remember Shapps stating that this was an opportunity for change and a national recovery would be a green recovery. Seems to fit.

149679 ▶▶ Mark, replying to PaulH, #419 of 1807 🔗

Again, a duplicate ID. Why (assuming you are the same new Mark that has been posting for a couple of weeks now) do you choose to persist in posting under an ID already in regular use here (going back to April)?

149573 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #420 of 1807 🔗

Awaiting for approval, what does that mean?

149601 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #421 of 1807 🔗

Oh, it was approved

149578 Mike, replying to Mike, 3, #422 of 1807 🔗

I think its getting harder and harder to deny that some if not all of the conspiracy theories relating to this flu outbreak may actually be true, people just don’t won’t to see it..understandably.

but this sort of thing is being slipped in via the main stream media to soften us up to ‘new’ ideas…

We’re already headed for universal basic income on the back of the economic car crash we are heading for (if not already in).

what next?

149585 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Mike, 6, #423 of 1807 🔗

I think the longer they string this out the more likely we are to go back to the old normal. All the talk of ‘build back better’ will fall by the wayside with the economic catastrophe that is coming. ‘Just build back’ will be the rallying call of the hordes of unemployed.

No-one gave a shit about the environment when the 2008 financial crisis hit.

149602 ▶▶▶ Mike, replying to steve_w, 2, #424 of 1807 🔗

I really hope so. this ‘new normal’ sounds absolutely pants!

149613 ▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to steve_w, 6, #425 of 1807 🔗

Sincerely hope so.

Their “New Normal” sounds highly abnormal to me…like Fahrenheit 451, 1984 and Brave New World all rolled into one :-((

149649 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to PaulH, 5, #426 of 1807 🔗

I draw comfort from the fact that all these ‘utopian’ visionaries and theoreticians, as with economists and epidemiologists, fail to take into account human nature. We will have a tendency to snap back into place and into old patterns of behaviour, because behaving like human beings is what human beings do. I don’t deny that it’s also easy for new habits (mask wearing) to be learned quite quickly, but I do think that those kinds of things will tend to atrophy over time.

I’ve no doubt that there are things being implemented under cover of this manufactured ‘crisis’ that will stick and many of them will not be fore the good, but as steve_w says, the harder and longer they pull us away from our humanity, the harder and faster we’ll snap back.

149685 ▶▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to matt, 4, #427 of 1807 🔗

Well a lot of what these visionaries are trying to implement goes against some of the most hardwired drives in humans – the need to be physically close to another, the need to sexually reproduce, to have some sort of meaningful purpose, whether that’s through a job or activities that bring communities together. That’s why I’m optimistic this will all fail in the long run but they won’t give up their utopian dreams without a fight.

149729 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Poppy, #428 of 1807 🔗

Reproduction will be done via mail order, an Amazon delivery in a polystyrene box of specially selected sperm and a special tube…

150702 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Poppy, #429 of 1807 🔗

Not to mention, tho’ I will, the indomitable spirit of human creativity…

149691 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #430 of 1807 🔗

I draw comfort from the fact that all these ‘utopian’ visionaries and theoreticians, as with economists and epidemiologists, fail to take into account human nature. We will have a tendency to snap back into place and into old patterns of behaviour, because behaving like human beings is what human beings do.

The problem is that when the radicals really get a firm grip, as in Russia after their revolution or (seemingly) here and now, immense harm can be done before they can be escaped, and long-lasting damage remains after they are dead and gone.

But as you say, the inevitability of their ultimate failure is some comfort.

[For the record, I’m the Mark who’s been posting here for months, not the new one you replied to here]

149735 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #431 of 1807 🔗

Russia is an interesting case – as is Hitler’s Germany, Franco’s Spain, Mao’s China etc.

But it doesn’t do to have a truncated view of history. All those totalitarian regimes grew out of decayed and raddled old regimes – like that of the Romanovs – that had ceased to function properly and were inimical to the interests of the population, often governed by a small, dysfunctional clique.

No. Not all ‘the same’. But it’s worth thinking about the precursors of repression.

149757 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #432 of 1807 🔗

There’s a fundamental difference between common or garden authoritarian repression, which pretty much just seeks to sustain its own power and opportunities for exploitation, and radical tyranny that seeks to transform society. Both can include gross violence and repression, and both can involve disastrous incompetence resulting in devastating suffering, but the latter does far more profound harm to the basic humanity of the society, as we can see in Russia which is still profoundly damaged by communism.

150227 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 1, #433 of 1807 🔗

You’re simply trying to make a distinction that doesn’t exist to fit your own world view.

Currently , Russia is suffering more from the damage done by the imposition of unchecked free-market banditry after 1980.Which is, ironically, one of the main motivations behind the Covid damage.

150378 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #434 of 1807 🔗

The fact that you try to pretend that something obviously true “doesn’t exist” demonstrates better than anything I could say that you are simply refusing to face up to reality. Nobody honest and without ulterior political motivation tries to pretend that the radicalism imposed by communists didn’t profoundly damage Russian society, to an extent that they are still a long way from recovering from.

150538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Mark, #435 of 1807 🔗

I think you should change your name to Real Mark, like Donald Trump does on Twitter. Then we know straight away who you are.

Actually, the software shouldn’t even allow it. I’m surprised it does.

149675 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mike, 2, #436 of 1807 🔗

UBI won’t work. I’d give it 12 months at most before you had total economic collapse. They can’t even afford a furlough.

Just because all sorts of dodgy groups come crawling out of the woodwork in a crisis, it does not follow that they caused or colluded in the crisis, or are conspiring in it. Old normal will resume, because old normal, for all its faults, is an evolution, a series of solutions for a series of problems.

NO centrally planned economy survives, and those imposed post collapse, rarely last a year. qv USSR 1917-19

149580 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 5, #437 of 1807 🔗

I was against the first lockdown and think we should have taken the Swedish approach.

But I could see the point of those saying we needed to do something to stop the NHS being overwhelmed which would lead to a lot of non-covid deaths.

That argument seems to fail on the fact that we closed down the NHS for non-covid patients and lots of people (20,000 cancer alone – ONS) died anyway. And we didn’t need the NHS that much for covid-19 because there’s not a lot we could do with them – bed rest, paracetemol and Oxygen (which can be done at home) for the worst.

149723 ▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, 5, #438 of 1807 🔗

I am amazed at the degree of amnesia suffered by the GBP (Great British Public – an entirely sardonic term).

The only justification for extensive quarantining (aka ‘lock-down’) was as a short -term measure to gain breathing space for a potential surge in health demand.

There was never any basis for extending this or introducing any other subsequent measure – as testified by all previous planning documents.

149584 Basics, 2, #439 of 1807 🔗

Novivax USA vaccine trail rnters phsse three. 10, 000 people to be trialed. UK has bought 60 million doses of the vaccine when it reaches market.

149588 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #440 of 1807 🔗

Apologies, drifted off. I’ll have the cheese board and a glass of Port please

149595 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Cecil B, 4, #441 of 1807 🔗

Just so you know, everything’s slightly worse than it was before. Repeat ad nauseum.

149616 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Cecil B, 2, #442 of 1807 🔗

Sir. You are lying in a hedge outside the Rose and Crown, you have shit your trousers and I am a police officer.

149589 alw, replying to alw, 1, #443 of 1807 🔗
149709 ▶▶ RickH, replying to alw, 1, #444 of 1807 🔗

A fascinating read.

Conclusion : It isn’t a case of ‘new parties’. It’s a case of ‘new people’ – in the sense of eliminating the side-show of false incentives for climbing a greasy pole.

149591 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 9, #445 of 1807 🔗

Remember Gordon Brown and his windfall tax on the energy companies?

We need a windfall tax on the pharmaceutical and testing companies. All profit made between the start and end of the crisis to be taken away. They won’t be so keen to do it next time.

149789 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to steve_w, #446 of 1807 🔗

A wealth tax to pay for the all the free money is more likely.

149596 Coronamoana, replying to Coronamoana, 18, #447 of 1807 🔗

I strongly object to blaming young people for the current rise in ‘cases’.

My 24-year-old daughter has barely left the house since March. She crosses the landing from her bedroom to the study where she works all day every weekday, with an occasional diversion to the kettle. She works for the public sector so they’re not all getting money for nothing either. On the handful of occasions (no more than ten) that she has seen her friends, they have met in the park. She occasionally visits her father, who has a suppressed immune system and who she is extremely concerned about as she fears he is depressed from isolation and the decimation of his business.

However, She IS now going out on a regular once a week basis to visit a counsellor who she has begun seeing during this period.

So, yes, she’s definitely to blame.

149865 ▶▶ Risk Assessment, replying to Coronamoana, 4, #448 of 1807 🔗

I certainly don’t blame the young for trying to live their lives as much at possible. I’m mid 40’s and I want to see the next generation LIVING life to the full, not merely EXISTING. The truth is that by doing so, there’s a good chance they’ll actually ‘protect granny’ by increasing the amount of immunity and passing on only infectious (rather than fatal) strains.
Why should they lose their youth to protect (sad as it is) an average age of covid death of 82? It’s utter selfishness to expect then to do so open-endedly.

149597 JohnMac, replying to JohnMac, 18, #449 of 1807 🔗

I don’t want Rishi either. I don’t want any of this lot, or the other lot.

I want a new party run by serious people who have done something in the world, not just done PPE (or worn PPE, or whatever it is), who would understand that destroying the economy would have dreadful consequences, that closing the NHS for six months would be devastating and who would listen to grown-up scientists, and who would regard all of this as common sense and nothing more.

And I want people who want western civilisation to continue and who won’t suck up to ridiculous pressure groups that would bring chaos if they ever came to power.

I though the last election was our last chance. I hope I was wrong.

149796 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to JohnMac, 1, #450 of 1807 🔗


150591 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to JohnMac, 1, #451 of 1807 🔗

“I want a new party run by serious people who have done something in the world”

The problem with that is that if you established that idea a year ago, both Vallance and Whitty would qualify for government.

149648 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, #453 of 1807 🔗

Zut alors…

149604 Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #454 of 1807 🔗

C-19 virus is only 0.000000125 m (not mm), sorry, been keeping me awake since yesterday’s comment reply. 125 nanometres so decimal point 9 places to left.

149725 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #455 of 1807 🔗

Yes BUT the virus is stopped by an old T-Shirt. Especially blue ones.

149900 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #456 of 1807 🔗

yes – a one ten thousandth of a mm (0.000125mm)

149606 alw, replying to alw, 4, #457 of 1807 🔗

Absolutely tragic and an unnecessary loss of life. Unfortunately this is one of the unintended consequences of diverting very scarce police resources to seeing people are out of bars and restaurants by 10pm instead of doing real policing.


149615 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to alw, 2, #458 of 1807 🔗

Yes, exactly what I said to my neighbour who just sent me this link.

I used to work in Croydon and there was often violent scuffles and stabbings, rarely saw a policeman.

C dick should be sacked immediately.

149610 Andy Riley, replying to Andy Riley, 18, #459 of 1807 🔗

A positive experience yesterday. Attended a hospital clinic for an eye problem, saw various technicians to have tests done, then consultation with the senior consultant. I asked about waiting time for the operation, 3 or 4 months depending on this Covid business he said – I detected scepticism – I was right. Masks off and a 20 minute chat about the insanity of it all. Empty ICU wards, false positive, uselessness of masks – the lot. I left with a spring in my step.

149614 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Andy Riley, 3, #460 of 1807 🔗

That’s sounds great. Wish I could have been there to join in.

149617 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Andy Riley, 4, #461 of 1807 🔗

We need them to speak out. PCR tests are being used to lock us up and ruin our lives and livelihoods

149626 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Andy Riley, 8, #462 of 1807 🔗

Not wanting to rain on your parade, but it is exactly these medical staff that need to start voicing their concerns, with their colleagues, publicly over the current inertia of the NHS. Patient care should be their priority, and in such a profession there is a moral obligation to act when you are aware care is being severely compromised

149713 ▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to Nsklent, 21, #463 of 1807 🔗

I promise you that many of us our. I have a small but significant campaign group in our department, who have sorted visiting and other issues for our patients.
We are questioning everything and pushing back continuously on the second wave / National covid service narrative.
I have been reported to the GMC already for my social media use in spreading actual data rather than scaremongering lies. They are fortunately not investigating further but it’s frightening. I will be suspended if I push much harder but it’s a risk I am happy (ish) to take.
I am not alone in doing this but it is hard and taking a huge emotional toll as I bloody loved my job before March…

149715 ▶▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to Doctor Y, 2, #464 of 1807 🔗

Are not our.

149800 ▶▶▶▶ Risk Assessment, replying to Doctor Y, 4, #465 of 1807 🔗

Thank you so much. The local head consultant in xxxxxx at my hospital feels the same. She says that it’s now become political. The hospital heads have realised that they’ve denied much needed health care to so many under due covid that they are doubling down on the covid fear to cover themselves.
Unfortunately, like so many qualified medical professionals, she’s afraid to speak up.
It’s depressing.

149814 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Doctor Y, 3, #466 of 1807 🔗

Thank you Dr Y.

Remember how we were all outraged by that brave Chinese doctor who tried to alert the world of the impending pandemic and was hassled by police, then subsequently died. How is GMC disciplinary action much different than that ? You speak out about harm being done to patients and they threaten you with your livelihood. I understand that GMC has suspended more than 500 medics for speaking out.

150990 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bumble, #467 of 1807 🔗

I understand that GMC has suspended more than 500 medics for speaking out.

Ooh, that’s interesting, and potentially a big deal. Any way we could obtain definitive figures ?

150006 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Doctor Y, #468 of 1807 🔗

Thank you! Can you tell us which region or general area you are in?

150102 ▶▶▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to DressageRider, #469 of 1807 🔗


149839 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Andy Riley, 2, #470 of 1807 🔗

Additionally many of the admin and technician staff were fairly relaxed about masking, with chin warmers and ear ornaments noticeable.
On both recent occasions I had attended there had been an air of disorganisation. When I asked a receptionist why my appointment was nearly an hour late he sighed and mentioned the constantly changing directives from management making it difficult to run things properly. I sympathised.

149612 court, replying to court, 3, #471 of 1807 🔗

Already things to annoy me this morning – Walked past McDonalds and a pub this morning. Now they wont let you past the threshold unless you scan/fill in your details. Well that’ll help business.

Popped on the radio to find the station sponsored by the NHS T&T app. Will be constant all weekend bleating about downloading the app. Luckily I have Spotify.

149621 ▶▶ court, replying to court, 2, #472 of 1807 🔗

Oh, then got back to see the new Morrisons advert on TV showing you their new bouncers on the door.

149631 ▶▶▶ PaulH, replying to court, 5, #473 of 1807 🔗

Nice. Let’s threaten out customers – and ultimately put our prices up to pay for this nonsense.

That’ll be great for business :-))

149700 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to court, 1, #474 of 1807 🔗

You should watch last night’s edition if Hollyoaks (you are obviously intelligent enough no to do so) pissed myself at the level of mind control on display. All characters obviously all >6ft apart and almost shouting at each other, scene involving a woman who has given birth, doctor and other characters wearing a mask (1 flower power mask) then taken off and then scenes where said characters are maskless but carrying them and getting them in shot.

149730 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #475 of 1807 🔗

Hollyoaks more so than all other soaps have always been the crudest form of social ‘programming’. Literally programming ideas into the population. The bbc have started soaps in far away countries – storylines about bank cards and so on. Hollyoaks are as subtle as a klaxon about it.

149897 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to court, 1, #476 of 1807 🔗

Oh isn’t McDonalds dreary, ours are shockers too. Not regulars, but had to eat something before cinema. No one at counter, people clustered around some screen to order and the place was filthy. Gave up and jumped back in car and went through drive-thru. I don’t see the attraction. Won’t be going back for a long while.

149618 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #477 of 1807 🔗

Today’s page looks closely at Sir Patrick Vallance’s “infamous graph” which postulated 50,000 cases by the end of October (not a prediction mind) and a 200 daily mortality rate by mid-November if it materialised.

The graph was clearly meant to be scary.

But 200 figure isn’t so scary compared to the 50,000 figure.

Why such a low mortality figure?

Is there any rational to it? Is it what the the rate expects unrelated to ‘case’ numbers?

Comments please.

149624 ▶▶ PaulH, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #478 of 1807 🔗

Even the 200 was wrong. It assumes an IFR of 0.4%.

It is more like 0.1%, so only 50 a day.

And of course that is wrong too. There won’t be 50,000 “cases”.

149628 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to PaulH, 2, #479 of 1807 🔗

even 200 is pretty small for respiratory infection deaths in the winter

149857 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to PaulH, 1, #480 of 1807 🔗

To paraphrase: “It’s not the cases that count, it’s who counts the cases…”

149643 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #481 of 1807 🔗

Those cases are not yet converted through to deaths yet – curve is slower than spring oddly.

Virus is worn out from all those summer bbqs and beach parties.

It is all a giant game of let’s pretend.

Without overwhelming panic in the system symptoms are being correctly diagnosed.

Lungs are not routinely being inflated by ventilator killing patients – this practice steepened the spring death rate.

The most vulnerable people have died already in spring.

Mis diagnosed cold and flu symptons are less – remember a covid19 death is a symptom of covid being recorded 28 days prior to death.

28 day limit in place of covid19 being a factor on death cert – sping it was limitless.

Less people die now than in late winter anyway. Comparing Sept with Jan 5000 more die in Jan usually.

Just lazy speculations.

149653 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #482 of 1807 🔗

Oh… the carehomes haven’t been seeded to such an extent.

Carehome staff are not carrying it about because immunity.

Revdesivere (sp?) is used?

Sneaking use of HCQ might be happening?

Vitamin d levels are higher after summer.

149773 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, 2, #483 of 1807 🔗

Not remdesivir outside of a hospital setting.
And remdesivir (apart from being hugely expensive) does not reduce mortality.
I doubt Summer itself did much to boost Vit D levels, if residents are isolated indoors.
Hopefully, much use of Vit C and Vit D supplementation.
Prophylactic HCQ would certainly save lives, but I doubt it is being used.
Plus the virus itself has lost its virulence (in my opinion).
Deaths peaked in mid-April, followed by inexorable decline. This pattern is seen everywhere in Europe, regardless of interventions.

149690 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 2, #484 of 1807 🔗

Just looking at the pattern of weekly all-cause mortality from July to late October for the last 5 years (England and Wales)

Obviously, a problem arises from the two-week lag in the ONS publishing 2020 figures.

One feature is the notable dip in week 35 which seems to have transferred to week 36 this year. This suggests a recording issue -??

That apart, 2020 shows (up to week 37) a pattern that mirrors other years. In week 37, deaths are on an upward trajectory, coming out of the dip. Doing a moronically simplistic projection a la Whitty/Vallance – you then get startling growth, even though, every year, the trend levels off below 10000 deaths per week, then rising slowly into the autumn.

It is true that this year, the rise has taken mortality for that week to 300 above the next highest year, but that lies well withing the normal range of relative variation.

The crashing into further measures like a rogue elephant has no basis in this evidence, even given the comparison being based on a period of historically low mortality.

149706 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, #485 of 1807 🔗

This suggests a recording issue -??

I think that was the last bank holiday

150173 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, #486 of 1807 🔗

That was my interpretation – although the delayed verification should have sorted that out. But yes – that’s the obvious explanation.

149722 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #487 of 1807 🔗

Excellent stuff Rick H thank you.

149658 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #488 of 1807 🔗

Could it be he’s set a low bar so that if it is exceeded it will be justification for a second lockdown, or other draconian measures?

149622 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 11, #489 of 1807 🔗

Field report: school gate

HAd a newsletter yesterday from head, in it, a small line at bottom saying a number of parents had contacted her about how there’s not always “safe distance” at drop off and there’s a few vulnerable staff. Could we please oblige by wearing masks for drop off and pick up. “Hopefully it won’t be for long” doc she was apologetic.

I was devastated. I’ve just moved child to fee paying school to help her with special need (dyslexia) and one of the things I was pleased about was the sensible approach to schooling in this “pandemic”.

Decided would just turn up today and if harassed would not respond and call out said harassment in non-violent way.

No need. Senior teacher on gate not in mask. Only one parent in mask. She looked morally superior and definitely checking to see who else wearing. Bet it wasn’t her that badgered the head.

Hope we don’t see a mask increase. Will report back on how it revolves.

149623 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #490 of 1807 🔗


149639 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #491 of 1807 🔗

At my daughter’s school (primary) the Head stands at the gate unmasked. There have been repeated requests for parents to mask, but the greatest compliance rate has been about 50 percent, usually much lower. Thing is this: Head very friendly to masked parents, cold and dismissive to the unmasked.

Are we being moved to a point at which having a face will be a privilege of high status, while others of lower status must be gagged and expressionless?

149645 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Ovis, 2, #492 of 1807 🔗

almost zero mask wearing amongst teachers and staff at my children’s school (2 parents at last count)

150640 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to steve_w, #493 of 1807 🔗


150637 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Ovis, #495 of 1807 🔗

Repeated requests is a bit rubbish. And she’s out there maskless… I think you are right

149646 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #496 of 1807 🔗

Challenge the school in a constructive way

150634 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Victoria, #497 of 1807 🔗

Will see how next week pans out and decide then

149669 ▶▶ Adamb, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #498 of 1807 🔗

Our daughters school has told parents they must wear masks for collection and drop off from Monday. That, along with the children being banned from singing, should keep everyone nice and safe.

149687 ▶▶▶ Ovis, replying to Adamb, 1, #499 of 1807 🔗

Interesting use of a notice period there. Odd, given that everyone who will wear a mask must already possess one. The notice period itself must be useful in manufacturing consent.

149701 ▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to Adamb, 14, #500 of 1807 🔗

This happened in our school last week. 1 person choosing to wear a mask last week. This week, I am the only person not wearing a mask for my daughter’s class. I am making eye contact and smiling at everyone. Husband did pick up on Wednesday, who is also a hospital consultant. Only other parent not wearing a mask is also a hospital doctor…
There’s a lot of judging going on but I give zero fucks.

149878 ▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Doctor Y, 4, #501 of 1807 🔗

It’s easier for you, of course, because you have the medical knowledge to back up your position. Is there any way you can contact/support other parents who lack that knowledge but who believe that masks are wrong?

I suppose if it’s widely known among the children that three parents who are doctors think it’s nonsense, that’s not a bad start.

150083 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to JohnMac, #502 of 1807 🔗

Please everyone fill in this survey for the campaign UsforThem:


They are collecting evidence about masks and schools and want to hear from all parents whatever the school is asking for and even if they are being very reasonable then they will want to hear.

150633 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to DressageRider, #503 of 1807 🔗

Thanks, I will

150629 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Doctor Y, 1, #504 of 1807 🔗

Well done you for continuing to not wear. Where’s has this request come from? It sounds universal.

149629 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #505 of 1807 🔗

Thanks for pointing to the HuffPost article. It was … interesting. I particularly enjoyed

Are they right?

Yes, but only in a statistical sense. Applied to the real-world, the conclusions don’t stand up and are wildly misleading.

Well, if statistics don’t apply to the real world, I wonder why the article spends time discussing them … but on to their next point

Positive test rates are going up as a percentage of total tests – this is not disputed.  But this can’t be because of an increase in false positives as the rate of false positives remains constant unless the actual method of testing changes, which it hasn’t.

Well, I don’t know whether the FPR rate has increased, but more to the point, neither do HuffPost. In fact, I’m inclined to challenge this on two points, both of which arise from the rapid increase in test capacity and the admittedly declining turn-round. The GOS report made it clear that FPR comes mainly from operational considerations — taking and handling of samples, recording and reporting, and so on. It seems at least plausible that these –largely human — factors have been getting worse just as turn-round has. It is also not clear that expanding capacity has been done by bringing in exactly the same lab tests — there are at least 11 on the market which PHE assessed for use.

Additionally, if false positives were causing the spike in numbers, it would be uniform across the UK and it isn’t.

A fair point, but testing is regional too. So a decline in standards may be associated with some rather than all centres.

So I would say that there is at least a possibility that increasing positive test rates are due at least in part to consequences of the rapid expansion in test capacity and declining standards of the delivery.

That’s not to say that I discount the other indicators of rising infection rates at least in some regions such as the North-West. I think there is definite evidence of regional rises, although nothing on the apocalyptic doubling-every-week scale presented this week. This weeks population-level figures from ONS are due out today, I look forward to them.

149633 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Richard Pinch, 3, #506 of 1807 🔗

I had always assumed the FPR would increase with increased testing because of the problems you describe.

I also think that as testing increases they test more outside the NHS (where everyone had it months ago) and into the wider community which would show an increase

149665 ▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to steve_w, 1, #507 of 1807 🔗

I thought that the lower actual infections in the population were, the higher a false positive rate would be returned. If the real rate of infections increases the false results are lower. You still get false returns, but not at 90%+ (which is what we could be seeing), dependant on the overall number of tests being conducted. Is that correct?

149692 ▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to Alan P, 1, #508 of 1807 🔗

the lower the prevalence, the higher the false positives make up of the total positives. with a fixed FPR and fixed number of tests, the overall number of false positives would remain the same. but testing is going up, I suspect the FPR is going up (hastily built labs, poor procedure, new staff) and as the number of tests increases we start testing a different section of the population

Its complicated and will takes years to work out in retrospect, which makes Dumb and Dumber’s non-prediction prediction graph all the more stupid

149771 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to steve_w, #509 of 1807 🔗

Also cranking the cycles to multiply RNA-DNA, above 40 the world is your lobster it seems.

149793 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Richard Pinch, #510 of 1807 🔗

There is also the issue that false positive rates are reported to increase to as much as 7% if other coronaviruses are present (as mentioned by Swedenborg recently). As the common cold ramps at this time of year up then maybe the false positive rate increases…

149641 steve_w, replying to steve_w, 5, #511 of 1807 🔗

Just going to put this up again before I nip off to Wetherspoons for a breakfast

149647 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to steve_w, #512 of 1807 🔗

What do the different colour lines represent?

149655 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to JohnB, #513 of 1807 🔗

weekly deaths for respiratory illnesses over 2019 and 2020 with covid on top

for some reason lockdown had zero effect on respiratory illnesses and covid deaths (overestimated) are far below other respiratory illnesses now

149696 ▶▶ bucky99, replying to steve_w, #514 of 1807 🔗

Do you have an equivalent for hospitalisations? Would be interesting to see what lockdown did

149755 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to bucky99, #515 of 1807 🔗

Peak deaths on 8 April, too soon to have been affected by the great incarceration (23 days back takes us to 16 March). CEBM Oxford.

149824 ▶▶ Pum100, replying to steve_w, #516 of 1807 🔗

Thankyou! This is exactly the kind of simple, clear detail we need. I can send this to our elderly relatives to help them see that we are being lied to.

149644 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 1, #517 of 1807 🔗

Great article.

Why your positive test result is likely wrong

When it comes to health, we’re all for monitoring. But there has to be some caveats. Here are a few:

1) That the test must be accurate

2) If there’s a chance your test result might be wrong, you should be told

3) Any actions that follow from the test result must have been subjected to a careful balancing of risk and benefit – taking into account not only health-related factors, but also social and economic ones.

149663 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Victoria, 1, #518 of 1807 🔗

Msny thanks. I will be sending this to my MP with a cover note, as they obviously need educating.

149652 Strange Days, replying to Strange Days, #519 of 1807 🔗

An interesting article on the consequences of an obsession with death.

“According to Becker in his Pulitzer Prize-winning book “The Denial of Death” (1973), the knowledge that we as individuals are fated to die is a uniquely human problem, one that can lead to existential despair, mental illness, and paralysis of the will. As a result, he claims, we humans have evolved different methods to repress our fear of mortality.”


N.B. The author is not a sceptic, but the reality or not of the object of fear is not very relevant to the consequences he details

149670 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Strange Days, 1, #520 of 1807 🔗

I read Becker back in the day. I thought he had some profound things to say about the challenges of being a conscious being in a world of uncertainty (except for the certainty of death of course!). IIRC his ideas had some strong links to existentialism…no surprise that Camus set one of his greatest works in a plague…

149703 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to OKUK, #521 of 1807 🔗

A novel to read and re read at anytime, but especially now

149751 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Strange Days, 2, #522 of 1807 🔗

via Douglas Murray: Miguel de Unamuno ‘For the present let us remain keenly suspecting that the longing not to die, the hunger for personal immortality, the effort whereby we tend to persist indefinitely in our own being, which is, according to the tragic Jew (Spinoza), our very essence, that this is the affective basis of all knowledge and the personal inward starting-point of all human philosophy, wrought by a man and for all men and this personal and affective starting point of all philosophy and all religion is the tragic sense of life.’

149660 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 14, #523 of 1807 🔗

I’m not, and never have been a Tory voter, so it’s unfamiliar territory to be speaking up for one of them, but listen to Rishi Sunak’s words “It is on all of us, we must learn to live with it and live without fear” . Surely this is exactly what LS’s want to hear?

149664 ▶▶ Muzz Off, replying to The Spingler, 11, #524 of 1807 🔗

Empty rhetoric until he speaks out against the restrictions or says anything concrete that is remotely skeptical.

149693 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Muzz Off, 8, #525 of 1807 🔗

There’s a limit to what he can say without having to resign. I think he is manoeuvring. He needs to know he has enough support before he can challenge Boris but it looks like the Tory Party are moving in his direction. Politics is the long game

149781 ▶▶▶▶ Muzz Off, replying to The Spingler, 1, #526 of 1807 🔗

There is lots of manoeuvring now which is good, so hopefully you are right. But I’m worried it’s all going to end up in a coup based on the claim that the government just ‘bungled’ the situation, all about Test & Trace failures, PPE failures, maybe even the care home debacle, rather than any sort of reversal of general policy.

149938 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to The Spingler, 1, #527 of 1807 🔗

Apparently he was in the meeting with Profs Heneghan and Gupta – seems he’s taken their advice onboard

150165 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to Major Panic, #528 of 1807 🔗

He might actually be able to read a graph, unlike hapless Hancock.

149682 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to The Spingler, 4, #529 of 1807 🔗

He’s moving in the right direction – maybe. As a politician he will be looking for any opportunity to enhance his prospects (future PM?). Perhaps he’s detected a move towards the sceptic viewpoint. I hope so.

149694 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to The Spingler, 5, #530 of 1807 🔗

I expect he is sceptic because he is looking at the effects of lockdown hour by hour. What he said is a mainstream lockdown position. He might be doing a lot behind the scenes. My MP claims to be.

149699 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to steve_w, 4, #531 of 1807 🔗

Having Indian heritage he may well be more in touch with what is happening there. 5 month lockdown, 200 million unemployed and for what? To delay the epidemic by 5 months which is hardly killing anyone anyway

149750 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, #532 of 1807 🔗

… and has a notably repressive and divisive regime in general

149697 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to The Spingler, 4, #533 of 1807 🔗

I suppose it is easy to for people to interpret words differently. I have lived without fear since the start and would be prepared to live with it IF restrictions were removed. The only thing that I want to hear is that all the hysteria is finished with and people can once again get on with a meaningful and happy life.

149712 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to The Spingler, 5, #534 of 1807 🔗

Rishi Sunak certainly seems a huge upgrade on Boris Johnson. The only problem is he is very much a Davos elite type (very privileged background, ex-Goldman Sachs, married into one of India’s riches families). He will be very keen on all the ‘Great Reset’ and fourth industrial revolution agenda. Which is ultimately about the elite socially engineering the masses on a scale unimaginable ever before.

149748 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Darryl, 2, #535 of 1807 🔗

a huge upgrade on Boris Johnson.”

That bar is as low as it gets! 🙂

149737 ▶▶ Kev, replying to The Spingler, 4, #536 of 1807 🔗

Any minister, with any integrity should be resigning from the cabinet and explaining very clearly why, they have to make clear their opposition to the draconian measures being introduced by the Johnson administration.

Any that fail to do so (all of them to date) are implicitly supporting the administration and its policies.

149792 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to The Spingler, 1, #537 of 1807 🔗

But we are not living with it. We are trying to hide away from it (not me personally) with stupid restrictions.

149677 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #538 of 1807 🔗

Here’s my theory on the emergence of the Wuhan lab flu. It’s not based on evidence, just a gut feeling. What do you reckon?

The virus was not released maliciously. Rather, the Wuhan Institute of Virology have been experimenting with zoonotic virus transfer involving bats. To facilitate the work there were bats, alive and dead, on site. One of the technicians spied an opportunity to make some money. He took a load of the bats to the local wet market and sold them. Voila! We have COVID-19.

149747 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Tenchy, 7, #539 of 1807 🔗

Lab was doing gain of function work funded by Fauci after it was banned by USA. Possibly explains Fauci’s bat shit crazy behaviour.

150713 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Tenchy, #540 of 1807 🔗

Batshit crazy!

149678 mjr, replying to mjr, 14, #541 of 1807 🔗

Shopping report …

Aldi, B&M and Pound Shop visited. Of course i was totally unmasked and no lanyard etc. No problem with any of the shops. Nothing changed. Staff all totally pissed off with having to wear masks . All very chatty. One girl happily walking around sipping a cup of tea admitting that was so she didnt have to wear the mask. Staff all very chatty and i think glad to talk to someone unmasked .
Similarly, very small child in trolley. Mum masked. Fascinated by me being unmasked and smiling … child chuckling away .
Finally visit to local chemist. They had to reintroduce the max 2 customers rule. Also a sign on door about masks but they asked no questions.
As to shoppers, i saw only 3 other people unmasked.

So – dont wear a mask.. walk confidently. Smile. Be chatty with the staff. they love it .. In my part of the world they are so pissed off. Everyone i spoke to thinks it is all pants .

We have just had a testing centre appear this week on a country park car park. Will have to check this out in more detail on my morning walk.

Finally, on the death of the policeman. I dont actually feel sorry about it . I am sure i would not have felt like this a year ago. Is that a changed attitude to police and authority? or just the general slide to become a sociopath ?

149686 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to mjr, 2, #542 of 1807 🔗

Given that lovely and helpful update, you are certainly no sociopath, so I guess it must be the former.

149721 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #543 of 1807 🔗

just listening to report on the policeman. It seems someone was arrested for having ammunition, Taken to the police station and into custody. Policeman was a sergeant so assume it was the desk sergeant as the suspect was being booked in. Gun wasnt a police gun so suspect must have had it on his person when he was brought in
Wasn’t the suspect searched? Isnt this basic police procedure.? Were they more concerned with PPE and whether he was wearing a mask (just hearing an ex copper on radio about new covid procedures that they have to follow . Were these to blame? Also this copper saying the covid protest last week was violent towards the police)
Given the low esteem that the police are increasing being held in these days because of their politicisation is there something behind all of this?
And thanks to Kath below …. You are right – I dont think it is sociopathy.. Just cynicism .

149736 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, 1, #544 of 1807 🔗

Assumptions are always subject to rebuttal as more info comes in, but at this stage I’d assume that this was a death attributable to BLM and political correctness But we don’t know yet even the ethnicity of the perp, so that might be less directly relevant than this reasonable assumption suggests. .

Asked about how someone could enter the building while armed, former Det Ch Insp Chris Phillips said: “I think police officers are probably less likely to search people now with all the furore that goes on.
“When people get arrested there is a general view that they should be searched before being transported to the police station but that doesn’t always happen – and it depends on what the man was arrested for in the first place.
“This goes down the line about handcuffing – do you handcuff, when do the handcuffs get taken off for protection etc. “”

Note that the police aren’t in the least concerned about handcuffing respectable middle class folk whom they know perfectly well are no threat, merely to humiliate them.

150255 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mjr, #545 of 1807 🔗

“Also this copper saying the covid protest last week was violent towards the police.”

No it wasn’t. There was violence, and we all know who started it. Tomorrow might be interesting.

149776 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to mjr, 1, #546 of 1807 🔗

Finally, on the death of the policeman. I dont actually feel sorry about it . I am sure i would not have felt like this a year ago. Is that a changed attitude to police and authority? or just the general slide to become a sociopath ?

I felt exactly the same way mjr. 9 months ago I would have been totally shocked by such an event, but when I read about it this morning all I could think was ‘I hope it was somebody protesting against Johnson’s fascism’.

I still do feel shock, but not at the event per se, more that my reaction to it has changed so much in so little time.

150143 ▶▶ Edward, replying to mjr, #547 of 1807 🔗

I don’t know the details about the death of the policeman, but I suppose I’m still a bit sympathetic. On the other hand, I occasionally used to watch these TV programmes Police Interceptors etc. when I had nothing better to do, but I never watch them now as I don’t think of the police as the good guys any more.

150968 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edward, #548 of 1807 🔗

The shot policeman was the custody desk sergeant. The shooter was under arrest for possession of ammunition, and handcuffed. But he apparently could get to and fire a gun in his trouser pocket. All this from msm.

Very sad for the arresting officer who should surely have done a thorough search given the alleged offence ?

149681 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #549 of 1807 🔗

More than 40 Tory backbenchers back rebel bid to force vote on future lockdown measures

Problem is of course the Labour party under Keir Starmer. As this useless shower are even more pro lock down than the Tories don’t expect that they will do their functional duty and actually OPPOSE this despicable cabal that are causing so much devastation to the country.

149943 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Harry hopkins, #550 of 1807 🔗

But they love a government defeat….

149688 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 31, #551 of 1807 🔗

I’m not a big fan of eating out but had been invited out yesterday for a meal. So went along only to be encountered by a mask officer on the door. I have sent the following complaint to their head office today.

I would like to complain about how I was treated by various members of staff yesterday evening. When I entered I was asked by a member of staff if I had a face covering and that I needed to wear one. I informed the person that I was exempt. They then followed this up by asking me on what grounds. I was completely shocked and taken aback by this question. I said I don’t think you should be asking me that. To which the response was a quite arrogant dismissal of what I had said, followed up with him going to get his manager. The manager came out and said very rudely “What’s the problem”. I informed her that I had no problem and I was exempt from wearing a face covering. No apology was issued by the manager, instead she instructed me that I had to sanitise my hands or I couldn’t enter. Again I explained that due to a health condition I was unable to do that. At which point I was allowed to meet my party at their table.

This whole confrontation left me feeling really embarrassed, degraded and humiliated.

I know the face covering rules are new for pubs/restaurants and I don’t know what briefing they had prior to this rule being implemented, but no member of your staff should be asking any customer why they are exempt from wearing a face mask. They should not even be asking them if they have one. They are breaking article 29 of the Equality Act 2010 by using this line of questioning and your company risks being prosecuted should a customer decide to take the matter further. I’ve attached the Equality Act. Article 29 is very clear that the service provider is breaking the law if they submit the customer to any form of detriment or harassment.


The law is also very clear regarding who doesn’t need to wear a face covering and I was amazed that no due diligence had been carried out by your company . I have attached the legislation and part 4 shows what constitutes reasonable excuse


The government guidance also states that providing details of exemptions is not necessary by law.


An extract
“Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.

Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.

This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law”

I haven’t yet decided whether to take this matter any further. I’m still feeling really shocked by the whole encounter. I’ve looked on the citizens advice website as to what classes as disability discrimination and what I experienced yesterday would class as that.

An extract

“Someone is harassing you if you find their behaviour towards you offensive, frightening, degrading, humiliating or in any way distressing”


I am hoping that a swift and sufficient response to this complaint from head office, with a formal apology and guarantees that a process change will immediately be implemented across all your chains ensuring what I had to endure yesterday does not happen to anybody else might be enough to make me not decide to take this further.

I await your response

I was absolutely fuming. I really wanted to walk out immediately but stayed because other people were already there. I have no idea how these people are running businesses without knowing about the laws they are trying to erroneously enforce.

149704 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Hubes, 6, #552 of 1807 🔗

A very good letter.

It is distressing to learn how keen people are to be authoritarian. Is it because they feel themselves downtrodden? By it’s nature the “hospitality industry” is a subservient trade to be in.

149774 ▶▶▶ Seansaighdeoir, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #553 of 1807 🔗

Look up the Milgram Experiment.

149705 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Hubes, 11, #554 of 1807 🔗

This whole confrontation left me feeling really embarrassed, degraded and humiliated .”

Don’t feel embarrassed. Don’t feel degraded. Don’t feel humiliated.

Refuse to accept those feelings in yourself, and substitute righteous anger for them.

149724 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Mark, 4, #555 of 1807 🔗

It didn’t make me feel those things but I wasn’t really complaining just for me. It’s for people who would feel those things if asked what I was asked. I’m ok standing up for myself but a lot of people don’t feel like they can.

149714 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Hubes, 4, #556 of 1807 🔗

Very good. Can you name and shame the establishment please?

149726 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #557 of 1807 🔗

It was one of the chain of vintage inn restaurants.

149734 ▶▶ Muzz Off, replying to Hubes, 5, #558 of 1807 🔗

Sorry this happened, and you are in no way in the wrong, but I really don’t think the claiming of exemptions (genuine or not) is a good way to go about things. From talking to many zealots, including a friend who is a shop worker, unfortunately claiming exemptions from mask wearing (especially when its just to get to your table) makes us look loopy and/or like snowflakes. And claiming a health condition makes you exempt from hand sanitisation? Not saying it’s not true but it sounds even less believable to your average bedwetter.

I just go maskless with no apologies, and if challenged (not happened yet) I will simply inform them I don’t agree with this madness, and then take my business elsewhere. Now I understand you were meeting friends so this wasn’t an option, but I take the view that in very restricted settings for limited time periods, I will maliciously comply to the minimum degree just to get along. (e.g. nose poking out, faking hand sanitising, etc.) As long as I am maskless in 90%+ of public situations, I am still doing my part to fight back and keeping my dignity without shooting myself in the foot.

149753 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Muzz Off, 8, #559 of 1807 🔗

I won’t comply with wearing a mask at any time, not even for 10 seconds to walk to a table. The point of the complaint was to highlight that they shouldn’t be asking anybody. That way the 10% of time you are currently masking up in public becomes zero if they are made aware that legally they can’t ask. That way nobody has to say they are exempt or wear a mask. You keep your dignity then at all times.

I know several people who developed rashes and eczema from having to use hand sanitiser. One is a diabetic who has to be careful with cuts and skin conditions in case they get infected. So you can definitely be medically exempt from having hand sanitiser forced on you.

149770 ▶▶▶▶ Muzz Off, replying to Hubes, 1, #560 of 1807 🔗

I agree, it’s just about the effect that ‘causing a scene’ has on observers. If it’s just to harden their view that ‘anti-maskers’ are nuts, then it’s detrimental to our cause.

Similar to the current protests – they do far more for our opponents’ case than they convince the general population. Much better to have thousands of people gathering to quietly listen to reasonable speakers than a crowd of people shouting about Bill Gates, 5G and vaccines. I’m not saying he hasn’t got dodgy involvement or that I love vaccines, I’m just thinking about what could realistically work.

149798 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Hubes, 7, #561 of 1807 🔗

Agree totally. The hand sanitiser that people routinely splosh around in my shop causes me an extreme allergic reaction (breathing difficulties). I’m no wimp, but it causes me great distress.

149959 ▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to kh1485, 2, #562 of 1807 🔗

toxic stuff. avoid like the plague.

149719 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #563 of 1807 🔗

The grest Van Morrison is not the only Irish crooner to have stepped skeptically into the recording studio.
Richie Allen of reedy voice notoriety took a train journey yesterday into Abbey Road Studios. The result was played at the beginning of last nights Richie Allen Radio Show. It’s not for everyone’s ear but it may reaquaint owners with lost cats if played loudly enough. There’s a 2 hour Radio Show attached which includes vallance’s 600k in GSK being spoken about. Richie is right it is a government shaking scandal that has been ignored by msm.


Probably not safe for work, if anyone works at work anymore.

Enjoy – and buy Van Morrison’s as antidote.

149762 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #564 of 1807 🔗

Allen makes quite an amazing observation.

He suggests because of the PCR test false positive scandal there are presenters/journalists who could end this whole situation. He gives names; Nick Robinson, Peirs Morgan and Susanna Reid, Kay Burley. Each, says Allen, has the position and reach to be able to cause the downfall of this whole fraud by simply going after the PCR false positive angle.

See 25 mins in for Allens comment about this. Excellent by him.

149778 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #565 of 1807 🔗

Correct, all fucking complicit in the lie.

149787 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 2, #566 of 1807 🔗

Burley is a disgrace

149784 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Basics, 4, #567 of 1807 🔗

Ian Brown (who I must apologise to for once thinking that he was a bit of a tw*t) is on the case as well and has recorded an an anti -lockdown song , “Little Seed Big Tree,” .

His last Tweet shows he is far ahead of most people

Please can all the learned academics and clever clogs recommend a history book telling of the time a government took away all your rights then gave them back!”

150676 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Schrodinger, #568 of 1807 🔗

Please can all the learned academics and clever clogs recommend a history book telling of the time a government took away all your rights then gave them back!”

isn’t that just perfect and uses the best missing description from LS – clever clogs. Brilliant.

149731 chris, 7, #569 of 1807 🔗

Tomorrow is set for Piers Corbyn’s anti lockdown rally. Is it a coincidence that Boris spent yesterday at a Northampton Police station and later on Sky listing all the fines he has added to frighten us. I sincerely hope that the Police and Army, if drafted in, do not provoke (or cause) violent behaviour. It would be very easy to insert agent provocateurs.

Maybe Carrie knows and that’s why she left the country.

149733 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 13, #570 of 1807 🔗

Well, today see’s the stricter restrictions come into force in Scotland, this includes the banning of visiting other households.
This is outrageous, but el presidente sturgeon thinks that this is helpful.
Which it most certainly is not.

She has also said this & I quote “ We cannot and must not be complacent about COVID.

“It kills too many old and vulnerable people. And for younger, healthier people, while the risks of dying from it are much lower – though not non-existent – it can still result in long term, serious health problems.”

So, what is the need for this draconian measure? That is a total contradiction, yet she is blaming young people for this now (look at the university’s & the stupid rules they have to abide by)

Stupid cow that she is. I am deeply ashamed to be Scottish, 6 more months of this utterly needless shit, companies going to the wall, people losing their jobs, I am dreading this Xmas now, she will probably come out & say that Xmas dinner can give you coronavirus!! That would not surprise me anymore.
& all because of the common flu virus.

I despair now, I really do.

150124 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #571 of 1807 🔗

There is more freedom of association in Lukashenkos Belarus than there is in Rosa Krankies Scotland.
Funny how all the western press was getting upset about the police harassing people in Minsk but its quite alright for the goons in Police Scotland to harass the law abiding in Motherwell.

150169 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #572 of 1807 🔗

It’s insane.
El Presidente Sturgeon really is turning into a dictator now. The stupid bint that she is.

150322 ▶▶ Ceriain, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #573 of 1807 🔗

She’s absurd, and so are her numbers.
Daily figures:
558 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 9.5% of newly tested individuals.
89 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19.

89! Up a whole 4 from the day before… from 558 new “cases”.

Weekly figures:
2,742 new cases of COVID-19 reported.
Increase in patients in hospital, 21/9-25/9: 16
Increase in deaths, 21/9-25/9: 5

As I said, absurd.

149739 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 11, #574 of 1807 🔗

I heard that someone local to me had a Covid test arranged yesterday. They turned up to find 2 hour queues and eventually had to abandon that day as it was getting so late. Next day they received a message: Your test result is positive – isolate.

149741 ▶▶ assoc, replying to FrankiiB, 4, #575 of 1807 🔗

Isn’t that Deception?

149743 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to FrankiiB, 5, #576 of 1807 🔗

If TestResultIsClear Then

In other words a null result (no test taken) sends the messsage to isolate

149763 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Strange Days, 4, #577 of 1807 🔗

Basic programming with no error trapping

149768 ▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to stefarm, 2, #578 of 1807 🔗

Something that would not surprise me at all

150692 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to FrankiiB, #580 of 1807 🔗

How can they turnaround a “test” so quickly anyway?

149740 assoc, 17, #581 of 1807 🔗

The news that Belgium is abandoning the PCR test is good news indeed. Our government is committed to something that is impossible – elimination of the virus and universal vaccination. We must change course.

149744 RickH, replying to RickH, 2, #582 of 1807 🔗

Although the Telegraph and a couple of other papers have mentioned Vallance’s share holdings in GSK, I have seen no emergence of this story generally.

Can anyone contradict this perception? Have I missed something (quite possible, given the disdain for the media that I operate under)

So – apart from the obvious implications re. Vallance, it seems an amazingly blatant indication of how far down the sewer journalism has descended in a fawning relationship with the establishment and its essential corruption.

Pick your target – one whom the establishment and journalist fellow travellers want to smear – and then consider whether this story would have received so little attention.

That is what we are up against.

149767 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to RickH, 2, #583 of 1807 🔗

We are also up against the “two fingers to you!” attitude, per Dominic Cummings. No matter what scandal comes to light, the Establishment now just sticks two fingers up at the country and carries on regardless.

149782 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to RickH, #584 of 1807 🔗

As someone pointed out the other day, a very large percentage of the msm’s ad revenues will be coming from the government warning ads so they probably have been shackled.

150128 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bumble, #585 of 1807 🔗

The BBC will be doing their best to memory hole this one as well.
Give it a couple of days and Twatface will censor it as Fakenews.

149745 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 7, #586 of 1807 🔗

Just clicked and collected, bit of a cop out but as I’m on the verge of exploding if confronted oh felt is was safer.

Young girl brought the bags out, huge black mask covering a pretty face.

‘no need to wear that mask on my account’

‘it’s ok, I do hate it though’

‘there are exemptions, please take care of your health’

‘we all hate them and don’t want to be ill’

‘well, you won’t catch ‘it’ but there are lots of other infections you are in danger of’

‘i know, we are all wondering the same’

‘please be careful’

‘we will’

She was fiddling with it (the mask) but was happy for me to help her load the car.

149952 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to stefarm, 2, #587 of 1807 🔗

fiddling with masks while picking items for ‘click and collect’ orders are likely to spread pathogens and other nasties ida thought…

150435 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Major Panic, #588 of 1807 🔗

Yes, nearly all staff wear them so it must be the same when stacking shelves

149749 FenTyger, replying to FenTyger, 2, #589 of 1807 🔗

A question, did Vallance/Whitty make up the “dodgy” chart themselves or did it come from another source?

149758 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to FenTyger, 2, #590 of 1807 🔗

I’ve wondered this, there must be a minion or minions producing the charts and slides. I’m a data analyst and can read a chart and would definitely question the figures.

149769 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to FenTyger, #591 of 1807 🔗

Valid question! Find it hard to imagine them sitting at the computer plugging the numbers into Excel. I can imagine them being told which figures and charts they must or may not present.

150147 ▶▶ Thinkaboutit, replying to FenTyger, #592 of 1807 🔗

I’ve assumed it was some brainy wonk in the No. 10 basement.

149752 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 2, #593 of 1807 🔗

So has Twatt Handy-Cock now employed thousands more tracers again then?

No way in hell am I going to use the app, my phone can’t run it anyway.

Another question, does the NHSX app use bluetooth proximity as a social distancing app or is it just for registering you progress through public places?

149760 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Two-Six, 1, #594 of 1807 🔗

Valid question! Find it hard to imagine them sitting at the computer plugging the numbers into Excel. I can imagine them being told which figures and charts they must or may not present.

149911 ▶▶ cognomen, replying to Two-Six, 3, #595 of 1807 🔗

Having spent quite a lot of time trying to use bluetooth to measure the location of wheeled cages, as used in shops, under pretty ideal conditions, corridors underneath an airport terminal, we could never get a reliable measurement of distance. Even when the measuring device, which had a specialised bluetooth aerial and the other device was static, the measured distance continually varied between 0 to 15 metres.

150242 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to cognomen, #596 of 1807 🔗

That’s interesting

150698 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Two-Six, #597 of 1807 🔗

In Bavaria the prime minister wants to utilise the army to help health department staff to trace. I know of someone, when military service was still compulsory, due to a health condition not active service bit was fiddling papers in the office. The most boring day he punch holed a piece of paper and put it into a folder. That was all he did called “work” that day. So utilising the army might actually give them sth to do.

149756 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 6, #598 of 1807 🔗

Herd now will save lockdown Covids

I think we have to focus on this because the rates in London, where you would expect the numbers to go up first and spread more rapidly, are low an even falling.

It suggests to me that London is close to Herd immunity – studies in the summer suggested 17% had antibodies and roughly 2.5x that, i.e. 40% had T cell immunity. If the herd threshold is indeed the traditional 70% and not lower (it may be lower), then the T cell and antibody rates are getting close.

Birmingham next was suggested (ONS estimate I believe) at 10% antibodies so it has to catch up, and similarly northern areas a little less. So the virus is simply working its way through. There will be an uptick, ‘cases’ may be high but irrelevant with hardly any symptoms, and should even be encouraged to achieve herd.

Encouraged? Why? Because cases now are mild and cases midwinter in all flus will be worse. Scrapping all restrictions now will, in my view, pure and simple, save a few winter deaths from Covid.

I put it that way because so many are blind to the collateral deaths, don’t care about them, and accuse anti lockdown people of only focusing on the economy. If they won’t be persuaded by that, try this.

149777 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #599 of 1807 🔗

Super reasoning there Frank. The current way just doesn’t work and doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, on that basis alone I think that your way should be used.

There is however one giant fly in the ointment, this isn’t about covid. This is all about controlling the population. The parallels with 1939 Germany are many, jackboots on the streets to control a mild flu (for moat)?… Hmm…

149783 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #600 of 1807 🔗

I think you are right and that we are probably a lot closer to herd immunity then many seem to think. Interestingly the “second wave” than was supposed to be happening in France and Spain (and later on here) seems to be losing steam and looks more like a ripple than a wave. The great problem though is that it seems that the goverment has little interest in actual facts and is acting on a hidden (to the gullible) agenda. They will manipulate and twist the facts any which way they can and, sadly, most of the sheep will fall for it.

149822 ▶▶ Nic, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #601 of 1807 🔗

So touchy cant other people see this.

149759 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, #602 of 1807 🔗

Aaahh…the good old Covidiot word again…


She was also foaming at the mouth, is this another unknown symptom of the “virus”
Lol. Honestly, I give up.

149775 ▶▶ dpj, replying to AnotherSceptic, 6, #603 of 1807 🔗

I’ve read the story and it appears to be someone who sadly has a long history of issues with drugs and alcohol being aggressive when confronted by police officers. I’m fairly sure this will not be the first time she has been in a similar situation. I’m struggling to understand why the use of ‘covidiot’ in the headline?

149801 ▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to dpj, #604 of 1807 🔗

Indeed, I was more getting at the use of the covidiot word.

149813 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to AnotherSceptic, #605 of 1807 🔗

Exactly. Is this the new normal now, anyone who is ill has covid and anyone who breaks the law for any reason is a covidiot.

150084 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to AnotherSceptic, #606 of 1807 🔗

Rabies most likely.

149761 swedenborg, 4, #607 of 1807 🔗

There are an estimated 1200 deaths from alcohol poisoning in the US universities each year, and let us say roughly hundred times more deadly alcohol than C-19. From a Public health perspective, you have a clear priority, but what are they doing instead and using massive resources and restrictions?

149764 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 33, #608 of 1807 🔗

My seven year old little girl went to bed in tears last night because somebody at school told her that children have germs and that the germs she has will kill her granny.

I have no words anymore. My precious little girl is being damaged by this situation. I’m beyond angry.

149780 ▶▶ maggie may, replying to Arnie, 9, #609 of 1807 🔗

Quite agree, it’s so cruel what they’re telling children about killing your granny. Even if granny never gets Covid but sooner or later dies from something else, as she will, will these kids believe it was their fault? Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Criminal.

On a lighter note, why doesn’t the government care about grandads?!

149786 ▶▶▶ William Hand, replying to maggie may, 5, #610 of 1807 🔗

No they do not care about us, sexist crap!

149939 ▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to William Hand, 2, #611 of 1807 🔗

Well I care Will. And my kids care too! Fuck what the government says or doesn’t say, it’s what the real people say. I apologise for swearing but I’ve had enough of being told what to think by talking heads on the TV. The kids need love and nurture, not horror and threats. We all do. I talk to lots of people about this, including a couple of veterans groups with thousands of members, I’m not the only one starting to go critical mass on this.

149922 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to maggie may, 5, #612 of 1807 🔗

We lost more service personnel due to suicide after the Falklands War than were lost during that action. I know what we are going through now is not the same as that situation but there is huge psychological distress being caused. Planting such hateful ideas into our innocent children’s minds is so horrific I honestly can’t think of the words to express myself.

I’m ex-forces, front line medic, and after hearing my little one I wept on my wife’s shoulder, how do I protect her, and all the other kids, from the horror of this psychological abuse?…

149788 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Arnie, 5, #613 of 1807 🔗

That is just terrible, sorry to hear your little girl has been subjected to such vile hate speech.

Find out who told her such horrible and hurtful things and report them to the head teacher, and maybe visit the parents, for an instructive discussion.

149802 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Kev, 3, #614 of 1807 🔗

It was most likely a teacher that fed the poor girl that poisonous thought in the first place.

149816 ▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Liam, 3, #615 of 1807 🔗

In which case, the teacher should be instantly dismissed. Words have consequences, particularly with small children, its beyond contemptible, evil might be a better term!

149829 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Liam, 3, #616 of 1807 🔗

If it’s an adult then it’s a safeguarding issue as that is emotional abuse, needs to be raised with the school. If that doesn’t work contact the safeguarding team at the local council.
If it was another child then the school needs to do something and should be told forthwith. Again if that doesn’t result in anything being said at the school raise a safeguarding issue with the local council child protection team.
This sort of nonsense needs to stamped out immediately.

149914 ▶▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to p02099003, 5, #617 of 1807 🔗

Thanks p02. It was another child. I will be speaking to the headmaster this afternoon. He is a covid sceptic, under massive pressure to comply but doing his best to protect the kids and continue their education as normally as possible. I’ll post the results of our chat later.

149899 ▶▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Liam, 4, #618 of 1807 🔗

Thanks Liam. It was other kids. The school is largely covid sceptic, they are careful to be overt but they toe the line but try to keep it to a minimum.

Do any of the zealots know or care what damage they are doing when they are poisoning our kids with this? What are the long term consequences?..

150134 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Arnie, 1, #619 of 1807 🔗

We need to return to normal as quickly as possible. There can’t be many more things these shithouses can do before I hit my own critical mass.

149861 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kev, 3, #620 of 1807 🔗

What do you expect to happen when kids are simply reflecting the nonsense that is everywhere – the little one talking about granny-killing is simply picking up on what she’s been told.

149889 ▶▶▶ Arnie, replying to Kev, 2, #621 of 1807 🔗

Thank you Kev. I’m ex-military front line medic, for the first time in many years I broke down in front of my wife last night. How can this happen to such an innocent little girl? Are all the kids cannon fodder or collateral damage to the god of covid now?

150856 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Arnie, 1, #622 of 1807 🔗

That’s awful. One more crime that Johnson and his criminal gang must answer for.

If in need of a morale booster watch Dolores Cahill on You Tube – date of 22/09/20. Sorry, can’t upload a link. She is discussing some credible sounding moves to hold those responsible to account under international law. She is also very good on the science behind covid.

149766 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 5, #623 of 1807 🔗

So the bloke standing in the pub shouting (repeatedly) “The next rounds on me, get everyone a drink, landlord” is popular? Who’d have thunk it?

149805 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #624 of 1807 🔗

“And every man woman and child can pay for it, for the next few generations!”. Yet still they cheer,

149902 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #625 of 1807 🔗

There’s people in that pub he isn’t buying a drink for. I have a feeling they’ll be the ones picking up a chunk of tab.

149772 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #626 of 1807 🔗

One table was 2 ft from the entrance
I don’t blame the cafe, I blame Bojo et c.

149790 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #627 of 1807 🔗

It’s all down to smart Coroni. He never goes for people sitting down eating or drinking just for those who stand up or move.

149794 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #628 of 1807 🔗

There was some study that suggested taller people were more likely to catch it so maybe when you are sitting down you are too low down to catch it but when you stand up you are back in the danger zone again.

149820 ▶▶▶▶ David, replying to dpj, 2, #629 of 1807 🔗

I’ve got the “I went to the Danger Zone!” song from Top Gun stuck in my head now.

150120 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to David, #630 of 1807 🔗

When sitting down, it’s “Halfway to the Danger Zone”.

149864 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to dpj, #631 of 1807 🔗

Sounds like a good argument for ditching the masks and everybody pootling around in wheelchairs!

149870 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to dpj, 2, #632 of 1807 🔗

they’ll have us crawling on the pavements soon – and you know most of the morons in this country would do just that if this shit-show government told them to!!

149903 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnMac, replying to Sue, 2, #633 of 1807 🔗

If academic research were published that showed that the virus hangs around in droplet form between 1-2 metres from the ground. Safest to keep below one metre.

Be safe. Protect others. Stay low.

150135 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Sue, 1, #634 of 1807 🔗

Funnily enough, there is an NHS poster about that as well:

149898 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to dpj, 1, #635 of 1807 🔗

No wonder Sturgeon always looks so smug.

149970 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to dpj, #636 of 1807 🔗

I see an opportunity for mandatory kneeling or wheelchairs perhaps…

149779 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 14, #637 of 1807 🔗

Watched some culture show on the BBC last night where Mary Beard was desperately trying to come up with the positives for the Arts from the lockdown. It was pretty much just monologues and podcasts and maybe Netflix (they actually said that).

Why don’t you just tell it like it is BBC? The performing arts has been decimated, there is no positive. Maybe for stars with 100k Twitter followers and writers who can use the time usefully it’s OK but what about the set dressers, the dancers, the front of house, the decorators, the costume makers, the electricians, the sound technicians, the jobbing actors, the musicians, etc. Yep the star or even the writer may find some artistic inspiration from lockdown but behind them there’s 100 people without jobs or income.

All ignoring the fact also that the performing arts is a social act. That’s where it gets it’s meaning. Without that it’s nothing.

149825 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 5, #638 of 1807 🔗

Yes. I saw that programme – and generally I like Mary Beard (someone who attracts such venom from the moron class can’t be bad).

But I too felt that she was busting a gut trying to find positives in a massively negative situation. And I’m sick of every programme/presenter rattling on incessantly about ‘lockdown’ and ‘What I’ve done in the panicdemic’. And not one calling it out for the toss that it is.

One of my close family woks for a national company in the arts/theatre sector, and we discuss the depredations every time we speak on the ‘phone.Even though the company she works for is putting a brave face on things – as are others – and given that her personal resilience has been amazing, the actuality is dire, and trying to see the positives is like admiring the workmanship on the Titanic’s deckchairs as they float on the waves.

On a personal level, were intending to meet up for a weekend tomorrow – but she felt, not a fear of the vanishing Covid – but a fear of picking up any minor infection because of the risk of it quarantining the whole company, given the nature of her role across groups. This is where the insanity of reacting wildly to every sore throat and sniffle has led us.

149866 ▶▶ Will, replying to Achilles, 5, #639 of 1807 🔗

And mad Vanessa Redgrave hamming it up for all it was worth was the cherry on top. I have to say, as a one time jobbing actor, it doesn’t half grind my gears when l listen to multi millionaire actors banging on about support for the arts. When I didn’t have any acting work I pulled pints, I got on a shovel, ground working and laying concrete. Anyone can use a paint brush, a vacuum cleaner or even an iron if they don’t consider it beneath them, unfortunately most people in the arts think the world owes them a living.

149980 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Achilles, 3, #640 of 1807 🔗

I firmly believe that the arts are being deliberately decimated as they have always been the catalyst and driver for counter culture.

150209 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to leggy, 2, #641 of 1807 🔗

The arts have been decimated for a long time now. It’s ruthlessly conformist,someone like Laurence Fox who goes against the grain is marginalised.

149785 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 11, #642 of 1807 🔗

I can’t remember if I read this here or elsewhere, so apologies if it’s been posted before, but I think it’s such a huge talking point to bring up that it could really get people thinking:

“Covid-19 Wipes Out an Estimated 500 Million Jobs Worldwide”

The equivalent of 500 million jobs lost.

149873 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to John Galt, 9, #643 of 1807 🔗

Aye, the only thing dying of this fucking virus is people’s livelihoods. 😡

150110 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to John Galt, 4, #644 of 1807 🔗

Covid has done nothing of the sort. Politicians’ reaction to Covid has done this. Never forget who the guilty parties are.

149791 shorthand, replying to shorthand, 31, #645 of 1807 🔗

Yesterday I had the strangest thing happen.
I went over to Inverness for the first time this year. It’s a go to place for me rather than Abergloom when I’m home on leave, I’m midway between both. I haven’t been there this year just because of the maskfuckery.
I won’t bore you all with the empty train, empty train car parks and all the seats and shelters of every station being out of bounds.
So I went to Waterstones to buy a couple of books. I am determined to not use amazon and keep my cash on the high streets, also it’s just better to have a rake and look at the books.
Anyways, I chose 2, one that I wanted and another I fancied and went to pay.
The checkout girl, and I don’t like to be judgemental or make assumptions about people but she was BLM all the way, saggy jumper and purple comedy hair.
So here’s how the transaction went:

Me – ‘Hi, here you go’ (put the 2 books through the little hole in her Perspex screen)
BLMCG – ‘Can you turn them over please’
Me – ‘Sorry. What?’
BLMCG – ‘Can you turn them over please’
Me – ‘Why?’
BLMCG – ‘So I can scan them’
Me – ‘Well can’t you do it?’
BLMCG – ‘Well you’ve touched them’
Me – (Natural rising of heckles, my personal hygene is beyond reproach..) ‘Yeah but my hands are clean, also used that gel on the way in’ (was made to)
BLMG – ‘Yes but you don’t want lots of people touching your books right?’
Me – ‘I don’t really care, I used to pick up used scud mags out of bushes when I was a kid’ (And for the record, still would ;))
I turn the books over but they’re on top of each other, so BLM Checkout girl can only see 1 bar code, so she gingerly, with one finger pushes the top book far enough away so she can see the barcode on the one beneath.
Me – ‘You touched that. You’re probably going to die now…’
BLMCG – ‘oh hmm ah’
BLMCG – ‘Were any of them discounted?’
Me – ‘Eeerm yes, maybe’ (Screaming in head – don’t blush, don’t blush, don’t blush you always look guilty..!!)
BLMCG without even checking, manually rings through my 50% discount.
Waterstones just lost £9 because their bedwetting employee wouldn’t lift a fking brand new book to check if they both had stickers on..!
Ok, a tiny bit of a moral dilemma as I really want my high street shops to exist but if their employees are going to be absolute roasters then, fuck’em……

149795 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to shorthand, #646 of 1807 🔗

I hope you didn’t try and pay by cash?

149812 ▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to Tenchy, 2, #647 of 1807 🔗

I should have. Might brave it again next week and go with a pocket full of manky loose change….

149921 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to shorthand, 4, #648 of 1807 🔗

Do that trick where you pretend to pull a coin out of your ear and hand it to them, see what they do then.

149797 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to shorthand, 5, #649 of 1807 🔗

People are mental. What the hell is wrong with people. Crazy fools.

150184 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Two-Six, 1, #650 of 1807 🔗

They’ve been terrified by months of dishonest, deliberately exaggerated information from politicians and media.

150321 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lms23, #651 of 1807 🔗

yep. The brainwashing machine really has “done a number” on people. Good and proper.

149799 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to shorthand, 1, #652 of 1807 🔗

A ‘like’ just for ‘scud mags’ alone!

149807 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to shorthand, 3, #653 of 1807 🔗

If she’s under 24 she won’t even get Universal Credit when they close. If she does get UC, she won’t survive.

149810 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to shorthand, 2, #654 of 1807 🔗

Saggy jumper and purple hair. The official uniform of the bookshop.

149819 ▶▶ leggy, replying to shorthand, 3, #655 of 1807 🔗

lol @ scud mags.

149935 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to shorthand, #656 of 1807 🔗

“Absolute roasters”. Now there is a slang word, exiled as I am in England for the SNP nationalist nonsense, that I haven’t heard in years. First genuine LOL moment I have had for a long time.

Thanks for cheering me up.

150630 ▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #657 of 1807 🔗

Haha, my pleasure. If Josef Sturglin gets her wicked way in the next year or so, I may well be making a cross border break as well…..

149804 Andrew, replying to Andrew, 5, #658 of 1807 🔗

As a matter of course anyone who is critical of lockdown and the subsequent measures is asked “are you an epidemiologist?”, even distinguished medical people in other specialities are shrugged off with the question. Of course the PM will turn to the experts rather than say Toby Young for guidence but it is not as if the experts can show a portfolio of their work or reviews on Trusted Trader. They are academics who have produced research papers and written books they have never guided Govt policy in the midst of a pandemic.

These experts signed off on, and still endorse, Prof Ferguson’s much derided model, they told us that lockdowns were for keeping a virus in or out or as a short term measure to harness resources and they changed from telling us masks did more harm than good to recommending they be mandated – without showing any evidence. They are clearly not infallible but they do have professional pride and they will never change their mind if it means admitting those know it all amateur epidemiologists were right.

149826 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Andrew, 4, #659 of 1807 🔗

To add to that it assumes a scientific consensus. There isn’t one. It is also very dangerous to put blind faith in models based on something we didn’t even know existed 8 months ago. The data is way too thin. Lastly as this is a statistically led pandemic and by and large the statistics are publicly available you don’t need to be an epidemiologist or doctor to analyse and challenge their implicit contradictions you just need a logical brain. I am actually a data analyst by trade so I think I’m more qualified than most doctors to analyse the stats, I’ll only defer to them for when I need treatment for it.

149847 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles, 1, #660 of 1807 🔗


… and what has struck me in all this shit-show is how ignorant many self-proclaimed ‘scientists’ are in terms of the very basics of data analysis. You didn’t even need to get into more sophisticated inferential statistics to describe the data related to the April spike and see that it showed a far from ‘unprecedented’ event.

In similar vein, the famous Whitty/Vallance grasp of the term ‘exponential’ and the problems of projection is hardly a testament to real scientific literacy.

In fact, one interesting phenomenon in a year of false information is that real scientific literacy has been overwhelmingly on the contrarian side, with an amazingly high proportion of statistical duggies occupying positions in the fields of public health, epidemiology and virology.

150057 ▶▶▶ maggie may, replying to Achilles, 1, #661 of 1807 🔗

i was listening to an exec from an insurance company this morning, talking about market risks, nothing to do with Covid, and he said this which I thought should certainly be applied to the Covid situation and indeed is by CEBM.

‘I think we need to build more confidence around modelling. How can we move away from a more qualitative-based approach to a more evidence-based approach? I think that will be incredibly important as the market evolves over the next couple of years’.

Given that insurance people are working all the time with risks, i wonder if anyone advising the government has any experience of the insurance industry?

149853 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Andrew, 2, #662 of 1807 🔗

There are other experts who disagree. The PM is not an expert either, so it really comes down to lay people listening to different experts, looking at the evidence for themselves, and making a decision taking into account all the factors. You, I and anyone else are as qualified to do that as the PM.

149862 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Andrew, 3, #663 of 1807 🔗

That’s why really this has to become a matter of principle. Our essential liberties should never have been surrendered like this. These nation destroying measures must always be beyond the reach of government.

149946 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #664 of 1807 🔗

Yes. Even if I agreed with every stat and model the government produced I can still absolutely morally disagree with their solution to it.

149808 mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #665 of 1807 🔗

Regular email from local council .. Dont be complacent!!!.
The email just shows the graph of cases, where cases now are more that april!!. Drilling down shows more graphs and ultimately you can get to the PHE source data.
I have emailed the council to ask loads of questions – what are cases, why only these graphs, why not show number of tests , deaths, hospitalisations? Why scaremongering? Be interesting to see what (and if ) they reply

149818 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #666 of 1807 🔗

this graph

149811 Rick H, replying to Rick H, 3, #667 of 1807 🔗

Watching all this crazy nonsense has made me understand that Margaret Thatcher was right all along. I’m sorry I doubted her.

149845 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Rick H, 1, #668 of 1807 🔗

Rick H, is this really you? Right about what? Just curious…

150168 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, #669 of 1807 🔗

Just a bit of satire, Julian – illustrating the effect of losing one’s mind as a result of Covid 🙂

150178 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, #670 of 1807 🔗

She was right all along.
The alternative is California – broke, on fire, infrastructure crumbling, power blackouts, high taxes, and a fleeing middle class.

150085 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Rick H, #671 of 1807 🔗

Sure you don’t need to lie down??

150141 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, #672 of 1807 🔗

I think there are two Rick H’s or someone is trolling him….

150095 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Rick H, 1, #673 of 1807 🔗

It took me a while to get there with Maggie. I hated her for most of the time when she was PM, but came to appreciate her later on.

Not MT-related, I would recommend reading one of Jim Rogers’ two books: “Investment Biker” or “Adventure Capitalist.” They detail his two around-the -world trips, one by bike, one in a bright yellow soft-top car. They are very interesting and detailed books, and changed my viewpoint on economics.
He was a partner many, many years ago with George Soros. Where Soros seems to relish interfering with countries and their politics and economies, Rogers has the opposite view, and believes in a small state, less government interference in people’s lives.

And check out this guy:
Gary Lamb: message to Tim Pool.

I had to confess to having a tear in my eye listening to this guy and how his life has gone.

151019 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rick H, #674 of 1807 🔗

Rick we always argue but I love you for that

151021 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #675 of 1807 🔗

Oh damn. Not you ? 🙁

149815 Londo Mollari, replying to Londo Mollari, 11, #676 of 1807 🔗

Local school has an outbreak of the winter vomiting bug. That’s a really good reason to avoid my grandchildren for a while, but clearly all the sanitation and social distancing measures have failed.

149851 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #677 of 1807 🔗

No it’s because people aren’t wearing gloves.

149858 ▶▶▶ Kev, replying to Two-Six, 6, #678 of 1807 🔗

No, its because they aren’t wearing full hazmat suitswith independent air supplies

149936 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Kev, 2, #679 of 1807 🔗

No, it`s because they obviously missed the guidance saying we now need to walk backwards at a slight diagonal, with our heads between our legs to avoid the naughty coroni (and friends).

149978 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kev, replying to watashi, 3, #680 of 1807 🔗

Actually, I hope they do suggest people walk backwards to reduce their risk, we’d see just how gullible some people really are, if they trip over our feet, tough!

150146 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Kev, 1, #681 of 1807 🔗

Norovirus is a contact transfer virus, oral- foecal transfer and all that.
The only thing that controls it is being absolutely mental about proper handwashing i.e. soap and water.
No pissing about with gels.

150234 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to watashi, 1, #682 of 1807 🔗

Is that diagonal exactly 45 degrees that represents the least risk or could it be BETWEEN 25 and 45 degrees? I wonder if any emerging science will have the answer soon. I would imagine it will have something to do with fluid dynamics and air temperature.

150082 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Kev, #683 of 1807 🔗

You wouldn’t want a vomiting/squits bug while wearing one of those…

149821 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 3, #684 of 1807 🔗

I just caught the end of an RT news item this morning which featured an interview with Bojo who was saying (and I quote as accurately as I can remember) that he was an ‘absolutely evangelical’ about green energy and going on to forecast a future of hydrogen powered everything. It then went on to interview a scientist that actually knew about hydrogen power who pointed out that its production uses about 6 times more electricity than you actually get back.

This is yet another reason why the BBC should be defunded and the licence fee paid to RT instead.

I can’t give you a link as the interview doesn’t seem to be on their web pages, so it might not have been recent, but at least it tells you what the man is doing with the country.

149832 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Old Bill, 4, #685 of 1807 🔗

I think defunding Mr Toad is more the priority.

149834 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Old Bill, 4, #686 of 1807 🔗

Michael Moore recently pointed out the environmental difficulties associated with so-called Green Energy in his film, Planet of the Humans. He got trashed for it by his fellow liberals. The fact is that we have an energy dilemma – we use huge amounts of it and we are depleting our resources. Yet another thing that Boris doesn’t understand.

150117 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Londo Mollari, #687 of 1807 🔗

yes, more than worrying, and I bet no-one else in the cabinet understands that either.

149848 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Old Bill, 1, #688 of 1807 🔗


149863 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Two-Six, 3, #689 of 1807 🔗

comment image

This is what happens to gas filled balloons…

149876 ▶▶▶▶ FenTyger, replying to Strange Days, 1, #690 of 1807 🔗

Go down like a “Led Zeppelin”?

149875 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Old Bill, 1, #691 of 1807 🔗

Hydrogen either produced by electrolysis from seawater {(This uses ridiculous amounts of electricity and not economic unless you have a handy Hydro plant or nuclear plant) or by breaking down natural gas to extract Hydrogen (also producing CO2 and losing thermal efficiency compared to the gas itself). Again not economical. Also difficult to store, transport and as mentioned , dangerous (it is what they use to launch space rockets)

149887 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Old Bill, 1, #692 of 1807 🔗

Hydrogen burns with an invisible flame – so you can’t even see a hydrogen fire except for the heat haze. It also leaks through everything, and embrittles metals. It’s not very energy dense, so huge volumes are required to store it.

149823 Mark, replying to Mark, 7, #693 of 1807 🔗

The Spectator, the Co-op and cancel culture – a cautionary tale
That’s a fantastic piece and I feel renewed respect for both Fraser Nelson and Andrew Neill,and indeed for the Spectator in general.

149840 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mark, 3, #694 of 1807 🔗

Yes, excellent. It’s a good example of the best way to deal with these virtue-signalling scumbags.

149827 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 9, #695 of 1807 🔗

Went to the local NHS clinic to collect new batteries for my mum’s NHS hearing aids. First time since lockdown. You have to produce your NHS hearing aid log book where they normally record each issue of batteries, with the date. I produced the wee bookie as normal through the hole in the perspex glass but the women went into hysterics and said “no, no, we don’t handle books!” (as if I should have known). I was told to open the book at the page where the battery issues are logged and hold it up against the perspex screen so that it could be examined. Batteries issued but no record made in the book.

149850 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian, 4, #696 of 1807 🔗

Incredible, are these people thick.

149828 Tking, replying to Tking, 15, #697 of 1807 🔗

Not a fan of Rishi, who let down over 3 million people. I had to close my business for 4 months with no financial support, I fell through all the cracks. I am terrified of another lockdown as I need to earn to pay my bills, incredible that the government can close down a perfectly legal thriving business and not help me. Why on earth do people think he is something special, he even avoided answering questions from MP’s on this point.

149842 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tking, 3, #698 of 1807 🔗

I don’t think many here think he’s special, just he’s not the PM, or Hancock, or one of the other zealots. He’s guilty for having gone along with it. If he were in charge, there may be more inclination to move on. While the PM is still running things, I can’t see this getting any better as he seems to have adopted a shit or bust approach.

150043 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tking, #699 of 1807 🔗

I have no idea why they think that way. I don’t. I don’t see any of them being any different at the moment, and i agree with the linked Spectator article that argues that this country has committed economic suicide. Or perhaps I should say that Sunak and chums have committed economic murder. He’s sprayed money around like it’s confetti, and he’s still doing it.

150067 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tking, 3, #700 of 1807 🔗

They’re all twats, Tking. We need new political parties, new politicians, a whole new establishment. Those in charge of this clusterfuck, as well as those driving it, should face the ultimate penalty for what they’ve done to us. A total betrayal.

151018 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tking, #701 of 1807 🔗

He’s not special, and he’s shit at his job.

*But he’s the only one in the cabinet who has expressed any concern for the economic fallout.

149830 PoshPanic, 3, #702 of 1807 🔗

First off, please let me apologise for having done this. I feel guilty, dirty for having gone there and looked at the main page. It was a traumatising experience. Then, somewhere in the sea of corona porn, I noticed this article and blow me down, what d’ya know? A night out with the sceptics, reported in The Guardian!


149833 GuyRich, replying to GuyRich, 4, #703 of 1807 🔗

I’ve had my suspicions about Sweden since the start and couldn’t figure out why, other than I’m suspicious of any and all government. Then I came across this and remembered, they’ve already started to embrace chips…… https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=6ESx_ArqqS8
More to this methinks.

149880 ▶▶ RickH, replying to GuyRich, 5, #704 of 1807 🔗

Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.

150058 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, #705 of 1807 🔗

Maybe more likely they’re out to get you if you have the paranoid microchip. Not quite sure where that’s inserted…

150052 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to GuyRich, 1, #706 of 1807 🔗

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand …

149835 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #707 of 1807 🔗

Good and bad news for herd immunitarians (is that a word?), a position I incline to myself, from Nature . Blood tests for antibodies in Manaus, where the disease effectively ran out of control, suggest 66% infection rate. So on almost any assumptions they reached herd immunity. This is bad news, in that we are a long way in the UK from that (probably 6% nationally, 15% London). But the good news is that reported mortality was “only” 0.12% of population. At 66% infection, that’s 0.2% IFR. We need to bear in mind that death figures are frankly unreliable: government anxious to downplay the numbers, while local authorities possibly motivated to play them up.

149841 ▶▶ Klein, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #708 of 1807 🔗

Not all people exposed to the virus will have antibodies though. There is a lot of evidence that for a lot of people the innate immune system and T-cell response is sufficient to fight off the infection

149854 ▶▶ Eamon, replying to Richard Pinch, #709 of 1807 🔗

Antibodies seem to be the ultimate cause of confusion with COVID. There seems to be a a window of time, somewhat after an infection but less than 3 month before they occur/fade. I also suspect exposure is a huge part of the equation. I strongly suspect the assumed T-Cell response makes you resistant/not immune and high levels of infection may result in new antibodies.
I am not a doctor however and its just a guess that seems to fit the contradictory numbers.

149877 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #710 of 1807 🔗

We need to bear in mind that death figures are frankly unreliable”

Not if you stick to ONS figures on ‘all-cause’ mortality.

What is unreliable is anything identifying ‘Covid’ deaths. This was compromised from the outset, and the confusions over PCR testing and ‘cases’ have simply added to the mess.

I can’t see any reason for local authorities to ‘play up’ mortality figures – and they don’t collect the data. The mechanism isn’t there.

149895 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to RickH, #711 of 1807 🔗

I’m referring to figures for Brazil

149932 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #712 of 1807 🔗

It’s a fundamental fallacy that levels of antibody seroprevalence are the best gauge of community immunity. T-cell immunity from Covid 19 specific exposure, and T-cell cross-immunity from past exposure to other respiratory viruses, are much more important.

150004 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Kevin 2, #713 of 1807 🔗

But if 66% have developed antibodies, that suggests that they were affected sufficiently to develop that kind of immunity. In other words, at most 34% were protected by some non-antibody form of immunity.

Incidentally, a “fallacy” is an error of reasoning. Whether antibody seroprevalence is a good measure of community immunity is a question of fact , which can be determined, or falsified, by looking at what’s happening in the real world

150048 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard Pinch, #714 of 1807 🔗

Though T cell immunity may only be partial, this is the “cross immunity” that might not be specific to Covid19. Perhaps you also need to produce B cell responses as well, depending on the viral load.

Just a thought.

150162 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Richard Pinch, #715 of 1807 🔗

If 66% had developed antibodies you would have 100% immunity. The studies generally show that T-cell immunity has approximately twice the prevalance of antibodies. And T-cell mediated immunity can last decades, whereas antibodies can fade quickly.
The public will be led to believe that if only 10% have antibodies, that 90% remain susceptible. This is deliberate, imo. And that is what amounts to promulgating an unconscionable fallacy.
Seroprevalence is only a good measure, if it is properly interpreted . And the proper interpretation is always omitted by Whitty et al.
You will never hear Whitty say; ‘we need to get to 10-20% seroprevalence to achieve herd immunity’.

150204 ▶▶ Will, replying to Richard Pinch, #716 of 1807 🔗

Did you see the piece in the Telegraph last week co authored by Levitt suggesting that their is a correlation between antibodies and poverty. Basically the richer the area the fewer people develop antibodies.

149856 ▶▶ MaxPower, replying to FenTyger, #718 of 1807 🔗

Is it wrong to be in love with these guys??

149869 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to MaxPower, #719 of 1807 🔗

I think there are others here who have claimed first dibs!

150023 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to MaxPower, #720 of 1807 🔗

Fraternal love is fine.

151015 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to FenTyger, #721 of 1807 🔗

I love them so much I am almost tempted to pledge allegiance to The Other Place

149838 Sue, replying to Sue, 9, #722 of 1807 🔗

Apologies if posted before… but a good article in Express from Frederick Forsyth how a “People’s Revolt” is coming due to the restrictions etc.
Comments that i read are scathing of the government policy


How much longer can this all go on??? Surely the tide must be turning to more sensible policies that don’t crash economy and jobs etc??

149879 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sue, 3, #723 of 1807 🔗

Aha Freddy Forsyth.. I always liked the Day of the Jackal — a very good plot. I wonder if it transfers well from Paris to London??

149886 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mjr, 2, #724 of 1807 🔗

Read that again a couple of years ago, it was great to be in the world of no internet/mobile phones, and waiting for photos to be developed!

149934 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to mjr, #725 of 1807 🔗

Try reading “Kill List” by FF.

150273 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lms23, #726 of 1807 🔗

Yes! Enjoyed that one.

149937 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mjr, 1, #727 of 1807 🔗

Watched the film (again) a few months ago – made me question who/what is Ms Carrie, and who is she aligned to?

149846 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #728 of 1807 🔗

Apologies of posted before but I have only just come across it. Rik Mayall’s last film ‘One by One’.

Seems prophetic. Here is a clip.


149859 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #729 of 1807 🔗

One for the CTs btw!

150189 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, #731 of 1807 🔗

wow, I didn’t know much about that film. That’s incredible. Rik Knew. That is really scary.
So is the virus killing more or less people today?

149855 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 14, #732 of 1807 🔗


Ohio: Woman tased, arrested for refusing to wear a mask at football game | WNT

She was sitting with her two young boys, well away from other spectators, out in the open air. She’s also a young woman, and highly unlikely to be at risk from or with CV19.
This is tyranny, and ludicrous. Let us hope Boris doesn’t go down this route to eliminate an endemic virus that will either be permanently with us or will go away on its own, like MERS and SARS…

149871 ▶▶ Kev, replying to Lms23, 8, #733 of 1807 🔗

He’s alraedy gone further, we can’t even attend outdoor sports events.

149930 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Kev, 3, #734 of 1807 🔗

But are people being arrested yet for not wearing a mask outdoors?
Unfortunately, I can see it coming, being pushed by political lobbying.

150028 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Lms23, 1, #735 of 1807 🔗

Yes, there are several well publicised arrests in the UK on public transport and in shops. Deliberately publicised to enforce compliance I would suggest.

150160 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Lms23, #736 of 1807 🔗

Get your exemption badges,certificates and lanyards now.
We have.

150161 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lms23, 3, #737 of 1807 🔗

loads of face nappies being worn round here today, especially people in cars and vans and one young dude riding a bike with one on. My mate said that when he went into Sainsburies yesterday bare-face he heard an announcement on the tannoy “Security alert, security alert!”

The sheeple sure love their slavery. They LOVE IT…oh yes they do.


149925 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lms23, 1, #738 of 1807 🔗

Longer piece with comment on Tucker Carlson’s show last night. May not be available to view for long:


149867 Kev, replying to Kev, 6, #739 of 1807 🔗

BBC reporting Tesco and Morrisons have now started rationing certain goods, cue panic buying elsewhere.

149881 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Kev, 7, #740 of 1807 🔗

The OH spoke to the manager at a Home Bargains this morning, to ok a large order of coffee and tea for work, she didn’t want to look like a panic buyer. He said it’s not bad at the moment, but the toilet paper has gone. Didn’t take long for the new Fear Cycle to get going, did it? All it took was a ‘scientist’ who was demonstrably lying…

Incidentally, she took it on herself to go to a local shop because it would be less than half the price they have been paying at her – can you guess – NHS funded firm.

149884 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #741 of 1807 🔗

unfortunately … so many people are now sh*tting themselves when they realise what an absolute mess we are in

149893 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mjr, 5, #742 of 1807 🔗

Yep, once again, it’s not the virus, it’s the over reaction 🙂

149917 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #743 of 1807 🔗

yup yesterday in my local tescos loo roll shelves were looking sparse!!
I do wonder of our obsession with toilet paper!! It’s a shitty time 🙂

149976 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sue, 2, #744 of 1807 🔗

A weird obsession. Let’s be honest, if you’ve got a shower, there’s no need to stock up on tons of TP.

149904 ▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Kev, 9, #745 of 1807 🔗

Ah the irony of ‘you’re selfish for not wearing a mask’ whilst grabbing all the toilet rolls.

150154 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #746 of 1807 🔗

People stock piling toilet rolls?


150156 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Two-Six, 2, #747 of 1807 🔗

Well,they need em!

149909 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Kev, 8, #748 of 1807 🔗

The sure fire way to start panic buying? Say that there is panic buying.

149944 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Kev, 3, #749 of 1807 🔗

All part of operation fear.

150148 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Dave #KBF, #750 of 1807 🔗

FFS, get a Japanese / Korean toilet seat.
Problem solved for ever.

150094 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Kev, #751 of 1807 🔗

It’s just like a stampede

149872 Steve, replying to Steve, 13, #752 of 1807 🔗

Seems like the supermarkets have gone ‘Full Covid’ – as you know you should never go ‘Full Covid’.

My wife reports that queuing systems outside, and the approach to the checkouts are back at our local Morrisons – something not seen for months, and people on the door are enforcing mask wearing. All the staff are masked (as per the recent Government diktat’s) and they are limiting what people buy to prevent panic buying.

Luckily she has an exception lanyard (and she has legitimate health reasons not to wear a mask), so she at least is spared a mask.

She came back flustered and stressed. Not a pleasant experience at all.

These over the top rules are direct response to Government fear mongering. As always they haven’t thought through the social implications of this, and the economic implications of people avoiding shops, pubs and restaurants due to either being scared, or just not wanting the hassle.

Even my occasional foray into Pubs for a meal and drink with friends are now off-limits as I won’t put up with having to wear a mask, or having to compulsory register which could lead to the possibility of enforced house arrest.

149888 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Steve, 6, #753 of 1807 🔗

My Aldi this morning was normal and as laid back as usual .

149896 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mjr, 6, #754 of 1807 🔗

Mine was yesterday, but I think this is going to spread. It’s not looking good. The fear factor will be ramped up and up.

149940 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Steve, 1, #755 of 1807 🔗

Our local Morrisons yesterday was the same as last week. Maybe the memo hasn’t reached the High Peak yet. MW

150281 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Steve, #756 of 1807 🔗

My local Morrison’s was OK, there was someone on the door but he was more directing people to where the exit is.

150308 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Steve, 1, #757 of 1807 🔗

I disagree.They know exactly what they are doing in sowing fear and alarm

149882 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #758 of 1807 🔗

“Nearly all decisions in public life are balanced. Including in health, where NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence) assessments on the value of medical procedures are underpinned by cost-benefit analysis. I question whether government decisions during the crisis have been subject to any such rigorous analysis.”

This is the quote from Labour MP John Spellar’s article from the update today. I found it very sensible and one of the best so far I have heard from any MP. Especially as he has pinpointed to the most blaring issue hidden by everyone in MSM. NICE estimation, life year saved 30000 £. (QALY)

“Generally, we consider that interventions costing the NHS less than £20,000 per QALY gained are cost effective. Those costing between £20,000 and £30,000 per QALY gained may also be deemed cost effective, if certain conditions are satisfied”


An estimation of saved C-19 life is 5 years life saved ie 150000 £ if we have handled it a C-19 life year saved according to our common NICE rules(generously). We have not done that. We have valued C-19 life 3-4 times more than cancer deaths etc and that is in the worst scenario Fergusson 400 000 deaths. We have had less deaths so far so the price is much, much higher.
Let us take suicide. The average year of suicide 30 years.That is 50 years life lost compared to C-19.Cancer deaths also younger. But for suicide prevention, cancer treatment anything must be cost effective 30000 £ a year saved is the price tag. All our cancer screening programmes are based upon that. But we value C-19 deaths 4 to 20 times more than a cancer death or suicide or transplant intervention.

I think it is extraordinary important that an MP now mentions NICE guidelines value of medical procedures. And that the government has not done a rigorous analysis

149907 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 5, #759 of 1807 🔗

Utterly baffling that hardly anyone questioned this at the time, and many still do not, and that when you mention it to people they accuse you of being a Nazi or a eugenicist, as if these decisions have never before been made, rather than having been the norm for all of recorded history.

I think 5 years for a C19 death is very much at the upper end of the range – in reality I think it is much lower. The Q stands for quality, and sadly for many C19 victims there was not much of that left for them.

150196 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Julian, 1, #760 of 1807 🔗

A simple thought experiment should explain it:

A child has a terminal disease, we can cure that child if all ecomonic output of the nation is devoted to this exercise. Life is priceless, so we do.

A second child has the same condition. What do we do?

149908 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to swedenborg, 1, #761 of 1807 🔗

This work was at least started in July: DHSC/ONS/GAD/HO: Direct and indirect impacts of COVID-19 on excess deaths and morbidity, 15 July 2020 which estimated 10 QALY lost per death.

149918 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #762 of 1807 🔗

I very much doubt that figure of 10 years, given the vast majority of virus victims had other very serious comorbidities. I would suspect they have been working on average figures not recognising that the vast majority of victims had these other serious illnesses. I suspect the real figure would be closer to three years max.

149920 ▶▶▶▶ wayno, replying to OKUK, 2, #763 of 1807 🔗

and 93% over 75 years of age, using the ONS data against the total covid deaths on the dashboard.

149957 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to wayno, #764 of 1807 🔗

If you’re 75, your life expectancy is another 12 years for men, 14 years for women. If you’re 80, it’s 9M, 10W.

149985 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to OKUK, #765 of 1807 🔗

On the contrary, as you can see from the report, they have an elaborate analysis of co-morbidities.

149941 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Richard Pinch, #766 of 1807 🔗

I think they had two scenarios one 5 and one 10 years if I remember correctly much depending how much wwight to co morbidiities

149983 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to swedenborg, #767 of 1807 🔗

Well, you can find it (with September update) on the page I linked to. As far as I can tell they are taking 10 QALY and 13 YLL (Years Life Lost).

149910 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 3, #768 of 1807 🔗

Great analysis! The shows just how hysterical the reaction of government, media and society at large has been

149916 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to swedenborg, 3, #769 of 1807 🔗

On 10 April 2020 Matt Hancock admitted that the government had not made any attempt to assess how many people would die as a result of the government’s lockdown measures. He went on to assert that he and the Chancellor would get on to it immediately.

149926 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Steve Hayes, #770 of 1807 🔗

Great, can we see their conclusions then?

150170 ▶▶▶▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Steve Hayes, #772 of 1807 🔗

So if I’m reading that correctly the headline figures are, in a mitigated (I.e. lockdown scenario):

41 – 45,000 deaths from Covid in 6 months
12 – 25,000 excess none Covid deaths
upto 185,000 deaths in the medium to long term due to changes hospital procedures e.g. appointment cancellations.

is that a fair summary? If so, the Government accepts upto 4x as many excess deaths from none Covid illnesses is worth it.

150237 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, #773 of 1807 🔗

Excuse me?
Each covid death cost us 200x as much as a cancer death, sofar, each prevented death at least 50x as much.
And in life years saved vs life years destroyed through the lockdown, the ratio is 200!:1 as per the German economist Raffelhueschen, for Germany, excluding a far higher toll of life years destroyed through our lockdowns in the 3rd world.

149890 karenovirus, 5, #774 of 1807 🔗

A success for The Bozo !
This morning we’ve gone back to no morning rush hour which had been almost back to normal since the schools went back.
Yet come mid morning the incoming roads are heaving, no doubt with those returning to working from home, at johnsons F the command, getting the weekly shop out of the way.

149901 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #775 of 1807 🔗

This morning Gordon Brown asserted: “This [the coronavirus] is a once in a century event.” Can he really be that ignorant?

149906 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #776 of 1807 🔗

Obviously so.

149913 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #777 of 1807 🔗

Condition of employment.

149915 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #778 of 1807 🔗

Isn’t that what the say about the financial crashes that happen every 20 years?

150236 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles, #779 of 1807 🔗

And floods, high winds, etc.

149929 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #780 of 1807 🔗

It is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the elite globalists – who want to re-engineer the way humanity live. You will have notice that the media / technocratic elite have started linking ‘Covid-19’ and the man made climate change agenda. Both incidentally seem to have many of the same solutions such as technological control of the masses. This video explains the current situation very well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGxy-dOvX0A
people need to wake up to what is happening before it is too late.

150132 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Darryl, #781 of 1807 🔗

It’s too late.

150183 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Two-Six, 3, #782 of 1807 🔗

I suspect sadly you might be correct. I am particularly surprised that all the religious movements backed the new religion of man made climate change, Wokeness and NHS worship. By closing places of worship for months they have in effect made themselves less important to these new establishment created religions.

Personally I think the mask wearing, punishments and humiliations imposed by our rulers have parallels with Satanic rituals – Christians seem happy to believe otherwise.

150214 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Darryl, #783 of 1807 🔗


149933 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #784 of 1807 🔗

Can he really be that ignorant?”

Answer : Yes.

… despite a common-or-garden spreadsheet plus ONS weekly mortality data is sufficient to show that it’s not.

In fact, in my lifetime of c. three quarters of a century, there have been about two dozen worse infection seasons gauged by mortality.

150024 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Steve Hayes, #785 of 1807 🔗

The man who saved the world, wonky moral compass and all.

150409 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #786 of 1807 🔗

I hope he’s right on that. I couldn’t cope with a second global outbreak of willful scientific ignorance combined with nonsensical dictatorial control measures. One a century is quite enough.

150606 ▶▶ anon, replying to Steve Hayes, #787 of 1807 🔗

He’s talking about the reset

Brown is a fully paid up member

149912 guy153, replying to guy153, 5, #788 of 1807 🔗

Latest ONS data is out:


I consider this reliable data. Ignore Pillar 2 and MSM bullshit about “Cases”. The ONS are the only people doing a random sample.

As we can see, cases continue to increase, but not exponentially, and there is nothing surprising or alarming here.

The graphs in Figure 4 are the easiest to see the trends in the different regions.

It’s also worth having a look at this to see how Covid is doing compared to other viruses:

RCGP RSC Network Intelligence Observatory | ClinInf.eu

(Virology swabbing report).

149919 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to guy153, 1, #789 of 1807 🔗

Yes, the regional data, coupled with hospitalisation, shows that we have a “situation” in the North-West region.

150520 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Richard Pinch, #790 of 1807 🔗

Yes. I expect the same thing to happen everywhere over the coming weeks however.

149953 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to guy153, 1, #791 of 1807 🔗

Thanks for that. Interesting. A couple of points:

An estimated 103,600 people (95% credible interval: 85,600 to 123,400) within the community population in England had the coronavirus (COVID-19) during the most recent week

I wonder what, precisely, is meant by “had”? Is it the total of new daily infections in the period? If not, how do they determine when a “case” ceases to be a “case”?

During the most recent week (13 to 19 September 2020), we estimate there were around 1.75 (95% credible interval: 1.31 to 2.30) new COVID-19 infections for every 10,000 people per day in the community population in England, equating to around 9,600 new cases per day

And yet, PHE figures are currently stating over 6000 new “cases” per day. Are we expected to believe that PHE testing are picking up two-thirds of all “cases”?

150036 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tenchy, 1, #792 of 1807 🔗

And yet, PHE figures are currently stating over 6000 new “cases” per day.

PHE aren’t picking up 6000 cases per day – not up to w/e Sept 19th at least which is the last date of the ONS numbers. The 6k figures includes ‘late’ test results.

The average positive test per day for the week Sept 13th-19th is 3340 – so about a third of ONS estimate.

150065 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mayo, 1, #793 of 1807 🔗

Yes, my mistake. I forgot that the headline figure relentlessly forced down our throats by the MSM is ‘daily reported’ rather than ‘daily actual’. So, the PHE testing is picking up one third of all actual cases? Unbelievable!

150077 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mayo, #794 of 1807 🔗

Radio 2 News said 13.00

“ONS are reporting 9,000 daily cases this week, up from 6,000 last week. ”

1) clearly not exponential
2) why suddenly start reporting figures on a Friday, perhaps just to selected outlets.
3) how many houses are randomly tested to enable them to extrapolate this total ?

150524 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to karenovirus, 1, #795 of 1807 🔗

The ONS publish their survey every week on Fridays. Which is pretty reasonable. They usually test about 25000 households which is a pretty good number, and they include the sample standard deviation in their 95CIs using the proper math, as well as combining it with the test sensitivity and specificity so far as it is known.

Thank goodness some of the competent civil service “blob” hasn’t yet been sacked.

150518 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, 1, #796 of 1807 🔗

The daily new infections is about 1/10 of the “had” number– since you will test positive for about 10 days then every day a new 1/10 will be added while 1/10 recover. They have a more fancy “model” but this is basically close enough to what it’s doing.

Yes you’re right about PHE. It is obviously ridiculous that they would be picking up two-thirds of all infections– to do that they’d need to test two-thirds of the country. The reality is they are picking up a few percent of those 9600 and the rest are false positives.

It’s quite funny when idiots like David King complain they’re only picking up a third (now it’s two thirds, it was a third) when for T&T you need more than a half. But they were never picking up anything like that many of the actual infections, and the ratio of PHE positives to the estimate of the actual number of infections found by the ONS is a completely meaningless number.

It’s like you have a very large haystack with 9600 needles in it and you pull out a handful of about 6000 bits of straw with some unknown number of needles in it. To find two-thirds of the needles you’d need to search two-thirds of the stack on average. That would be 40 million tests per day. Don’t tell Hancock or you might give him ideas. Better that he be happy with his 6000 bits of straw.

You could estimate the PHE FPR by looking at how many people they are testing and assuming that 0.2% of them are true positives and the rest false. But that would only be valid if they were testing a random sample. They’re not– they have complicated rules that keep changing about who can have tests and it will be biased towards people with symptoms. But if they were only testing people with symptoms they would have about 10% positivity and whatever they’re getting it’s much lower than that. So in short it’s completely meaningless and it’s better only to look at the ONS data.

Edit: just read Mayo’s comment, sounds like it’s still about 1/3. But I don’t pay any attention to the PHE/Pillar 2 whatever numbers. They’re junk.

151065 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to guy153, #797 of 1807 🔗

Thanks. Good explanation.

149987 ▶▶ Mayo, replying to guy153, 1, #798 of 1807 🔗

As we can see, cases continue to increase, but not exponentially, and there is nothing surprising or alarming here.

Hmm. The ONS survey actually shows a sharper increase than the daily positive case data.

150013 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to guy153, 2, #799 of 1807 🔗

This is how the Telegraph is currently reporting it:

England coronavirus cases rise by 60 per cent in a week

150056 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tenchy, #800 of 1807 🔗

60% is probably in the right ball park.

150060 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mayo, #801 of 1807 🔗

You’re missing the point.

150074 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tenchy, #802 of 1807 🔗

Which is?

150126 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mayo, #803 of 1807 🔗

They phase the headline for the maximum (negative) impact. They could have given the rise per 100,000 of the population, but that wouldn’t have been as dramatic. It’s just another example of fear mongering.

150233 ▶▶ annie, replying to guy153, #804 of 1807 🔗

Mist interesting.

What do they mean when they say that ‘people had Covid 19’? What exactly did these people have, when and for how long?

Now Wales, where ‘infections’ are ‘increasing’, woe woe:

‘In Wales, the modelled estimates for the latest six-week period are based on 9,268 swab tests collected over this period. During these weeks, there were a total of 12 positive swabs taken from nine people from seven households.’

And that’s why the Welsh zombies are peeing their face nappies?

150527 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, 1, #805 of 1807 🔗

They “have” it for about 10 days, so 1/10 of that number is roughly the number of new infections per day.

149923 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #806 of 1807 🔗

James Corbett worth a watch, especially if the plandemic has opened your eyes.


149971 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Dave #KBF, #807 of 1807 🔗

Yes his last video is excellent if millions watched it they might wake up to what is really happening.

149977 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Darryl, #808 of 1807 🔗

I take it you mean the Covid911 one? That was short sharp and pretty exceptional

150171 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #809 of 1807 🔗

I meant the ‘ The Pandemic is a Test Run’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGxy-dOvX0A but I see he has published another one since. All his videos are very thought provoking.

149927 BeBopRockSteady, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #810 of 1807 🔗

That Huff article on False Positives. It really is garbage or am I missing something:

““But if you turn up to a testing centre you’re already thinking: ‘I might have Covid’ and if you turn up with a cough and a fever then it’s probably quite a high probability that you have Covid.”

The percentage of positive results to tests is around 5% at best, much lower in August. So even if these people are symptomatic, they have something else, like cold or mild flu. They clearly a higher probability of not having CV-19 despite their plague like coughing.

They want us to believe that the FPR is a red herring because it hides the fact that 80% specificity means 1 in 5 are not picked up as positive. False Negatives. So why are people complaining?

This is really bedwetter territory. Because so what if they test negative? Are you going to just isolate people anyway just with symptoms and abandon testing? So if you want to use PCR tests, live with it.

As regards False Positives, you are isolating people. The whole purpose of the test. And you are basing Lockdown Mark II on the number of positives nationally. So you better get it right. And you can’t, because its fundamentally flawed.

And, what about Zero Covid. Evenif you got to a zero cases day (FPR means that’s next to impossible), wouldn’t your False Negatives mean the virus is still out there? So Zero Covid is absolutely insane. And I ain’t a scientist.

I am sure I have missed something here. Please help. Because its driving me insane thinking anyone would read that article and think that means the FPR is unimportant and, in fact, should end this case epidemic tomorrow if our media did their bloody job

150029 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #811 of 1807 🔗

All their maths are founded on the premise that prevalence amongst the demographic tested is 20%.

Lying scumbags.

149928 DRW, replying to DRW, 3, #812 of 1807 🔗

The worst thing about the “second wave” coverage is that they’ve been almost willing for it since the first, because “OmG sPaNiSh FlU 2!” (Even though what happened then is unclear.) It’s like when a first series is released and there’s already rumours about the second.

149951 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to DRW, 3, #813 of 1807 🔗

Yes they’re quite happy to use the Spanish Flu as the template even though this virus has been shown to act completely differently and is actually much more like the other outbreaks we’ve had. They also conveniently ignore that our knowledge of the Spanish Flu it’s impact and how it operated is very limited and certainly not a matter of established fact.

149962 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to DRW, #814 of 1807 🔗

And when this second ripple is over and done with, what then? Wave 3?

150001 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, #815 of 1807 🔗

Probably, although the Spanish flu template ends there.

149931 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #816 of 1807 🔗


Offline: COVID-19 is not a pandemic

Richard Horton in Lancet. Step in the right direction from a mask fanatic or too waffly?

149948 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to swedenborg, 5, #817 of 1807 🔗

Actually, it looks more like a horrific new front in the lunacy, the Lancet writes:

Approaching COVID-19 as a syndemic will invite a larger vision, one encompassing education, employment, housing, food, and environment. Viewing COVID-19 only as a pandemic excludes such a broader but necessary prospectus.

To me that sounds like an argument for more repressive, authoritarian measures to treat political objectives as medical ones and order people to do whatever barmy communist policies they approve of.

149958 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Recusant, 2, #818 of 1807 🔗

What’s a “syndemic”? Is it one of those bullshit ideas that basically translate to “me and people like me are very wise, and should be in charge, and we know better than ordinary people, do not question us”?

150086 ▶▶▶▶ Recusant, replying to Julian, #819 of 1807 🔗

you got it in one.

149949 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, #820 of 1807 🔗

He seems to be changing his tune – is he scared? His email and text traffic from 23/24 January 2020 would be worth seeing!

150008 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 3, #821 of 1807 🔗

Actually, swedenborg, it is wordy bullshit.

(1) Covid is a ‘pandemic’ because the WHO has redefined the term to describe only worldwide spread, with no reference to virulence or mortality. Of course, the term has bee used to ramp up the Fear factor – but all it means id ‘widespread’ – like a quotidian cold virus that makes its way round the globe.

(2) The term ‘syndemic’ is just a poncy way of parcelling up the well-known fact that many non-infectious diseases (that of course interact with infectious ones – Doh!) are closely related to socio-economic variables and associated inequalities.

Hardly a Nobel Prize winner, this re-labelling exercise!

(That the author is a mask fanatic – if this is the case – would tend to support the lack of intellectual substance)

150108 ▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to RickH, #822 of 1807 🔗

He is the Editor of the Lancet (which published and later had to withdraw that fraudulent HCQ ‘study’) and famously said the following a few years back:-

“The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientifi c literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Affl icted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny eff ects, invalid exploratory analyses, and fl agrant confl icts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.”


He toes the line however, and publishes what Big Pharma want published.

150166 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kevin 2, #823 of 1807 🔗

Indeed – I hadn’t made the connections. Thanks.

149942 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 13, #824 of 1807 🔗

We have a local, ahem, ‘character’ in our shop right now, known locally as Bill Blade* (for readers of a certain vintage, think Catweazle on steroids). He looks like he’s been in a fight and, just now the BID chairwoman looked on the verge of coming in, to offer ‘helpful advice’ – she did a quick about-turn. Best laugh I’ve had all day.

I’m thinking of offering him a job in order to keep the mask zealots at bay: all the free coffee he can drink and newspapers to hoard (he gets very proprietorial over our papers – once growled at someone for daring to try and take one!)

*Really, not making this up!

Oh, and more doggy T&T details left! This place gets more like a Victoria Wood sketch by the day.

149950 ▶▶ Julian, replying to kh1485, 5, #825 of 1807 🔗

I often wish I could convincingly bring off that look – never have to wear a mask, free travel on public transport, security guards steer clear

149961 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 9, #826 of 1807 🔗

He lives in the same village as me and I just want to be in the local shop when he is. I would just love to see them try to persuade him to wear a mask or hand sanitise!

149984 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to kh1485, 5, #827 of 1807 🔗

People like him give me hope!

149947 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 4, #828 of 1807 🔗

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that not only a second wave improbable to the point of being impossible.
The virus has obviously developed an age based band pass filter over the past 6 months. Initially it was a high age band pass filter, only affecting those over 65. It has now started to affect all ages under 30, so it now has a low age bandpass filter in situ,
After reading the article on flu-like illnesses, I am more convinced than ever that the symptoms being displayed in schools and universities are more likely EBV than SARS-COV-2 related.
If we consider the whole episode from December/January to now.
Lockdown did not happen until March, there were three months where the virus was probably active, people were infected and weren’t aware of it.
Hospitalisations and deaths started to rise before lockdown occurred, more people must have been exposed to the virus.
The presence of the virus has continued, it hasn’t gone away.
As identified in the article referred to, EBV and others have similar symptoms as SARS-COV-2 infection. As children and students return to their places of study, they show the symptoms of covid19 and so are being sent for the swab. However, they have probably been infected during the period when they were not at school, and so have non active RNA in their throat and mouth which is being picked up by the RT-PCR test and hence are labelled as covid19, but no-one has done a differential diagnosis on these people.
The criteria for advising a swab should not be temperature and/or cough but loss of sense of taste. This is the only covid19 specific symptom. If a person has a loss of taste then a swab becomes pointless.
The other diagnostic test is a CT scan of the chest, which requires admission to hospital via A&E.

150015 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 5, #829 of 1807 🔗

Hospitalisations and deaths started to rise before lockdown occurred”

More importantly – infection happened before lockdown, so the peak deaths are essentially a ‘worst case’ scenario.

150113 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to RickH, #830 of 1807 🔗

Appreciate what you’re saying. I was trying to precis the sequence of events. My real concern is that school staff and university staff are making clinical decisions that they should not be making based on ambiguous symptoms.

150164 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, #831 of 1807 🔗

Absolutely. Sorry to appear ‘picky’ – it’s a habit that comes from having to counter all the inaccurate information that we are having to face.

149955 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 9, #832 of 1807 🔗

Slightly worrying conversation with a friend this morning. She is like minded, feels the restrictions are disproportionate, is politically aware and generally well informed. However she didn’t realise that everything the government has done and all the legislation that has been put in place has been done without parliamentary debate or scrutiny. Nor that the CoronaVirus Act is up for review. Obviously doesn’t read my FB posts! I really don’t know why I bother!

149974 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Suitejb, 3, #833 of 1807 🔗

I’m on fb but absolute bare minimum only (never post stuff etc.) but a friend of mine is always posting brilliant stuff – well informed sceptic information. He tells me that, sometimes his posts are either blocked and that also sometimes his posts only reach certain people. I dunno, I’m no expert in this but maybe your friend simply hasn’t seen those particular posts?

150000 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Suitejb, 1, #834 of 1807 🔗

One thing my MP did say is that they are able to challenge the measures but only after in place. He said there is not time to dispute if implementation is needed quickly. So that means a minority (or none) are challenging. Also ‘no time’ – many of these measures have been announced as being implemented several days later.

150122 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Suitejb, #835 of 1807 🔗

Not sure that equates to ‘politically aware’ ?

149956 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 2, #836 of 1807 🔗

In case you missed it.

A little late, perhaps, but Wednesdays UKColumn News takes Boris’s unimpressive ramblings to pieces.


149995 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to PastImperfect, #837 of 1807 🔗

Next broadcast at 13H00


149960 JHuntz, replying to JHuntz, 8, #838 of 1807 🔗

Have we ever had a more blatant globalist event than the response to COVID? This has illustrated essentially a complete uniformity of response from govts/ corporations/ ngos/ scientists/ media.

Have the globalists become emboldened? Has the recent events of brexit/ trump/ ‘right wing nationalism’ angered them? Have they shown their cards too overtly and awoken a lot of mindless sheep?

Or will the economy go to the wall and with it a lot of our rights without a whimper?

150012 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to JHuntz, 2, #839 of 1807 🔗

If you view it all with the outlook of “they want us to riot and end the current system so they can bring in a new one”, suddenly absolutely everything they’re doing makes a lot more sense.

150121 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John Galt, 3, #840 of 1807 🔗

They won’t wait for us to riot. Agents provocateurs. As usual.

150059 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to JHuntz, 1, #841 of 1807 🔗

Yet plenty of people would call that a conspiracy and would rather chalk it all up to incompetence.

149963 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 6, #842 of 1807 🔗


If anyone hasn’t seen this yet;worth reading.


Young students are now confined to gulags, courtesy of The Holyrood Gauleiter,

Finally, over 28,000 of us have signed Gorgeous George’s petition :


We want to break free! As Freddy Mercury once sang.

149981 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to wendyk, 8, #843 of 1807 🔗

One student just told Jeremy Vine that things at hall were pretty relaxed for the two week period in which they could have cancelled their tuition and accommodation fees. As soon as that period was over they started getting heavy with the Covid regs

149986 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to karenovirus, 2, #844 of 1807 🔗

Money talks!

150106 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 2, #845 of 1807 🔗

There’s a few more ‘educated’ students at any rate. 🙂

150157 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to karenovirus, 1, #846 of 1807 🔗

Education comes in many forms….

150344 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, #847 of 1807 🔗

No surprise there – I feel some students were a bit naive..

149965 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #848 of 1807 🔗

Maybe already posted. Telegraph has a paywalled article –
“New coronavirus mutation could be evolving to get around mask-wearing and hand-washing
Covid-19 may have become more contagious as it has mutated, the largest genetic study carried out in the US into the virus has suggested”


149972 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 9, #849 of 1807 🔗

It doesn’t need to evolve, most masks do sod all to prevent getting Covid.

149997 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Basics, #850 of 1807 🔗

Research by Joe Biden?

150009 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bugle, 2, #851 of 1807 🔗

Really? Do I need to? I thought the quote was enough to cause sides to be stitched together. Is there an added biden slant too. What did he say incy wincy virus crawling round a mask.

I surely don’t need to underline the stupidity?

150025 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Basics, 2, #852 of 1807 🔗

They’re getting better at navigating around the sides of the mask… taking inspiration from government U-turns no doubt.

149967 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 28, #853 of 1807 🔗

Jeremy Vine ended a phone in about students by allowing a caller to say

“What’s the harm with students getting Covid away from home, all together in their own group, getting herd immunity well before they go home for Christmas with granny”.

My view precisely.

150174 ▶▶ Steve, replying to karenovirus, 3, #854 of 1807 🔗

Yes, there was that joke recently where someone said “If only we had a way to isolate the young into their own communities away from their grandparents where they could catch covid and gain immunity, preventing the spread to the vulnerable. We could call them ‘Universities.'”

149968 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 11, #855 of 1807 🔗

I have found it interesting that all anti-lockdown protests are described as ‘far right’ in the main stream media despite featuring and being attended by many people such as Piers Corbyn who are actually traditional old Labour / Socialist.

Then I watched a video on the militarisation of European / UK policing and the threat that they have to clamp down hard on according to those in power is ‘right wing protest’ (absolutely no mention of Antifa / BLM / other far left causes). So all the authorities need to do to justify a brutal reaction to any protest is call it ‘right wing’ as it is a threat to the present ‘rules based’ system. What an absolute joke that this politicised policing is being allowed to happen under a so called Conservative government. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0jn7rRHhXg

149992 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, 10, #856 of 1807 🔗

It’s all mind games. Classing a protest as far right means that the majority of people will not attend as they do not want to be associated with a Far Right protest, so the protest will never get the true support of the people who are against the lockdown. It is also one of the reasons why Pro-Brexit protests were never as big as the Pro-Remain ones because they as people don’t want to be labelled far Right.

150193 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to JohnB, 2, #857 of 1807 🔗

Yes, the media have clearly been conditioning people other the years with terms to smear dissenters. ‘Denier’ is another word that has been used to attack people with – for example Piers Corbyn is a ‘climate change denier’ obviously they want that term to have the same emotional impact as ‘holocaust denier’.

150010 ▶▶ Arnie, replying to Darryl, 5, #858 of 1807 🔗

The are not Conservatives, they are left of the Labour party, they are National Socialists. Think about it. The parallels with 1939 Germany are uncanny and chilling!

150167 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Arnie, 1, #859 of 1807 🔗

Looking more like the National Socialists every week with the militarisation of the police. Very scary that this technocratic Dictatorship is going to have total control over our lives once we move (not by choice) to a digital currency and ID system.

150734 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Darryl, #860 of 1807 🔗

It’s the same in Germany, the Querdenken organisation is labelled as right wing or right friendly. The founder gave an interview to a tv station, and he records all interviews so he can prove how they cut it and twist words, and 2/3 of the time they asked him about affiliations to right wing.
The “storm on the Reichstag” on the 29th August, when Querdenken had their hugely successful demo in Berlin, was organised by the BND (Bundes Nachrichten Dienst, German MI) to discredit Querdenken and manipulate the media.

149969 tonyspurs, 4, #861 of 1807 🔗

For those of you who don’t want to look at FB and I don’t blame you the gist of this post from someone connected to the Arts is the loss of jobs in the West end and Broadway theatres ,concerts ,festivals ect and the knock on effects on job losses they had my sympathy until the end when it’s seems this is not because of government policy but because of people not following those brilliant sage advisors rules on masks ect and begging us to wear masks so they can work utter self centered BS f**k them


149979 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #862 of 1807 🔗

Response from my MP to a friend who resigned his party membership.


I am very sorry to hear this, Mr XXXX

I understand the frustration, and personally would have preferred much looser restrictions, but the decisions have been made based on reasonable analysis by medical professionals. We may disagree with the conclusions, but there is a strategy.

This is not just a fairly serious flu. While many people breeze through it, a large number are still suffering from the after effects (these are personal anecdotes I have heard first hand). It is not just killing the old, but also younger people with ailments like diabetes.

The truth is, there are no easy options. Were the government to do what you and I would prefer, I’d be getting a different batch of emails from people claiming that we have left tens of thousands of people to die. The hospitals would also have been overwhelmed quite early on, with lots of doctors and nurses in particular, impacted and then unable to take care of the rest of the population.

We are not the only country going through this. The French and Germans are also complaining about their governments. There are some things they are doing better than us, but the converse is also true, there are many things we are doing that are superior to our neighbours. It’s not a competition, just the expected outcome of dealing with a very novel virus and it will take a while to truly know it’s nature.

There have been several debates in parliament, but the fact is, the overwhelming majority back these restrictions and many even think we have been remiss in not going further like they have in Scotland. The PM has tried to strike the best balance. Only time will tell, but the evidence is that the numbers are doubling, so we can’t afford to wait until we see significant numbers of hospitalisations before we have restrictions. By then, it will be too late.

I am sorry that we have lost your membership, but this is not a party political issue. There is no one in parliament arguing for looser restrictions than our party.  Everyone else is demanding even more lockdown, more furlough and more interventions.
All I can assure you of, is that my colleagues and I are working to ensure that the best decisions are made given the advice available.

150002 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to kh1485, 4, #863 of 1807 🔗

Absolutely depressing reading.

This is not a time for anecdotes about one person with Long Covid.

150021 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 6, #864 of 1807 🔗

Exactly. She has some sort of role in the Treasury. You would think she would have gone round the local businesses to see how they are getting on, but we’ve not seen her at all.

150039 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 3, #865 of 1807 🔗

Which, if it did exist, would mean the trials where live virus is to be injected into the ICL vaccine cohort, to ‘speed up the trial’, are not just unethical, but are also negligent. They cannot have it both ways!

150007 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to kh1485, 9, #866 of 1807 🔗

“these are personal anecdotes I have heard first hand”
I hear this a lot. For most people, I fear, the anecdote trumps data.

150020 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to kh1485, 11, #867 of 1807 🔗

The bit about killing younger people with diabetes is a complete lie. There are hardly any deaths for type 1 diabetics under the age of 50 and type 2 diabetics are generally older people with pre existing conditions already.

150339 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hubes, #868 of 1807 🔗

Maybe send a reply with the actual stats re diabetes patients and Covid, if available?

150088 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to kh1485, 6, #869 of 1807 🔗

Does this MP think everyone recovers from the flu within a week? That it can never have any long-term repercussions? I would write back to them with this point, and that we don’t kill the economy when it appears every winter.

149982 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 25, #870 of 1807 🔗

Simon Dolan is in Sweden and he posted a tweet which sums this up really well for me:

Swedish people are not afraid of COVID. They see it as being a really nasty cold and act accordingly. The difference is that they rationally look at numbers, and trust Anders Tegnell.

One man and his courage really has made all the difference.
Not sure what’s happened to the courage in this country. Courage is the only cure now.

150051 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Sarigan, 5, #871 of 1807 🔗

And we have known this since 06 Feb

There’s a vast underreporting of cases in China. Compared to Sars and Mers we are talking about a coronavirus that has a mortality rate of 8 to 10 times less deadly to Sars to Mers. So a correct comparison is not Sars or Mers but a severe cold. Basically this is a severe form of the cold.’

Professor John Nicholls, clinical professor in pathology, University of Hong Kong, expert on coronaviruses 06 Feb 2020

150270 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tim Bidie, #872 of 1807 🔗

Cui bono?!
Whether they released the virus deliberately or not, once it was out, they realized the opportunity it presented to weaken the West terminally and grasped it fully, by locking down and releasing faked pictures and numbers.
But I don’t think even they could have contemplated that we would go that berserk for that long.

150335 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #873 of 1807 🔗

I’ve been out on a course here today and mentioned to a few Swedes about the latest restrictions in the UK – they were horrified!

149988 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 13, #874 of 1807 🔗

From the Telegraph:

Spanish troops were this week deployed to Madrid to help enforce strict new lockdown rules after thousands of residents took to the streets in protest.

The country’s prime minister, Pedro Sanchez, agreed to send in the army after a meeting with the regional governor.

Worrying! The people are beginning to see sense, but the government is having none of it.

150078 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, 5, #875 of 1807 🔗

Exactly a predicted would happen in Spain a few months ago with a full lockdown mid-October.

150152 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Tenchy, 2, #876 of 1807 🔗

That’s Generalisso Sanchez now

149993 Basics, #877 of 1807 🔗

Trustpilot NHS app.


Low patience for trying to make sense of the comments and if the link relates to the TnT app. Someone with better understanding might find the l8nk interesting. 2 starts. 77%(rough) 1 star. Maybe version 1.0 not this latest affair?

149998 MDH, replying to MDH, 1, #878 of 1807 🔗

In Cardiff until Sunday. Do the roadblocks go in at 6pm?

150014 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to MDH, 1, #879 of 1807 🔗

No road blocks any where in Wales.

150129 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Londo Mollari, #880 of 1807 🔗

Thank god for that.

149999 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #881 of 1807 🔗

Another 2 items chronicling latest round of complete madness.
1: Took a form containing my blood pressure readings over a week ( Is it any wonder?) back to the doctor’s surgery where I walked into a empty reception area with nobody at the desk so I rang the bell; after a few seconds the receptionist appeared clearly frightened to get anywhere near me and backing up against the wall.
“Have you got an appointment?” she asked me; I said “No, I’ve got this form to hand in” “Well, in that case, put it in the post box outside”
I was about 2 feet away from her and could have placed it on the counter, for her to pick up for God’s sake.
2: On our way to Ludlow ( See my previous comment) we passed through the village of Clee Hill,one of the highest points in Shropshire where the wind never stops blowing to see signs telling people to wear masks and social distance.
Ye gods, it would blow the most robust masks off into Wales and nobody gets to within 2 metres of anybody else anyway.
I assume the same rules apply in the middle of nowhere in Scotland and Wales where there are probably 12 sheep for every person.

150018 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #882 of 1807 🔗

Your post reminded me of the finest comedic writing of Jerome K Jerome, author of Three Men in a Boat.

150022 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Londo Mollari, 2, #883 of 1807 🔗

Thank you, the awful thing is,like the rest of this madness gripping most of the world is that it’s not a work of fiction but the unbelievable truth.

150038 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #884 of 1807 🔗

12 sheep for every sheeple

150040 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Andy Riley, #885 of 1807 🔗

You got it.

150139 ▶▶▶▶ Alan P, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #886 of 1807 🔗

Why do non-medics in a health setting seem the worst affected by the Covid madness? Are they turned by having a little knowledge into total believers that the virus is the worst pandemic since the bubonic plague ?

150151 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Alan P, 1, #887 of 1807 🔗

GAWD KNOWS, but I have noticed it in at least one of the two nurses in our local surgery.

150195 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #888 of 1807 🔗

They probably burn the contents of the post box to be on the safe side. Keep away from the germ/virus laden patients at all costs.

150459 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Nigel Sherratt, #889 of 1807 🔗

Never thought of that.

150011 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #890 of 1807 🔗

Manchester Evening News: ‘Covid wah?’: Snapchat videos show huge illegal student party at Owens Park in Fallowfield.

150211 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #891 of 1807 🔗

I would like to kiss every individual student.
But I won’t. They wouldn’t want to kiss granny. I never did, when I was their age.

150751 ▶▶ Geraint, replying to Tom Blackburn, #892 of 1807 🔗

Party on !

150016 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #893 of 1807 🔗

The chief medical officer is apparently sceptical regarding T cell immunity since there is no mass immunity against the common cold, he says.

But there is mass immunity against common cold coronaviruses and it is those common cold coronaviruses that provide T cell immunity against covid 19.

‘All six previously known coronaviruses spark production of both antibodies and memory T cells. In addition, studies of immunity to SARS-CoV-1 have shown that T cells stick around for many years longer than acquired antibodies.’


The problem with common cold immunity is that there are 160 strains of rhinovirus but work is ongoing to develop a vaccine against 80 of the most common, virulent:


But who is advising him, because if we can’t get natural immunity against covid 19, then why is he pinning his hopes on a vaccine……?

And rhinoviruses are just as lethal as covid 19 to the elderly and infirm, immunocompromised:

‘Unexpectedly Higher Morbidity and Mortality of Hospitalized Elderly Patients Associated with Rhinovirus Compared with Influenza Virus Respiratory Tract Infection’
IJMS Feb. 2017

And all this information is readily available via a 2 minute trawl on google……

Oh, for heaven’s sake…….

150081 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #894 of 1807 🔗

All talk of T-cell immunity indicating already occurred widespread community transmission (and therefore immunity) will be suppressed.

150176 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #895 of 1807 🔗

IS the alleged Chief Medical Officer one of those they promoted real quick to a position where he was kept well away from real patients in case he killed someone through incompetence?

150216 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #896 of 1807 🔗

I hadn’t heard that. But he is the one who received £30m from Bill Gates for a malaria project.

150123 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #897 of 1807 🔗

For goodness sake! The man’s meant to be intelligent! Can he explain his thinking?

150194 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Sophie123, 1, #898 of 1807 🔗

The only kind of immunity he has is from reason and logic.

150777 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tim Bidie, #899 of 1807 🔗

Did he just compare the deadliest of deadly covid to the common cold?

Is that meant to scare people cause er…..

150017 Adamb, replying to Adamb, 2, #900 of 1807 🔗

Oh great…..

London has been added to the national coronavirus ‘watch list’ following a spike in infections.

A formal Public Health England announcement will take place later today, but the news has already been confirmed this morning by London Councils.

150068 ▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Adamb, 4, #901 of 1807 🔗

Lockdown London; watch the tune change.

150125 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Miss Owl, 2, #902 of 1807 🔗

London lockdown Monday; MPs furloughed Tuesday; Covid mysteriously disappears Wednesday. Oh well, we can dream.

150072 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Adamb, 11, #903 of 1807 🔗

Interesting that it coincides with tomorrow’s demo …….

150133 ▶▶▶ Miss Owl, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #904 of 1807 🔗

Lol, so we need to keep threatening demonstrations there then!

150144 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, #905 of 1807 🔗

Ha, beat me to it

150329 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #906 of 1807 🔗

Timed too to ensure minimal debate on the extension of coronavirus law and the Brady extension, if all MPs are forced to work from home again..

150019 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 7, #907 of 1807 🔗

Belated eye test finally arranged for tomorrow; however, I’m obliged to undergo a telephone interview first-before they’ll let me in-and will then have to negotiate perspex clutter,sanitiser and suitably socially distanced seats in the waiting area, before finally meeting the optician, who will be swathed in layers of disposable plastic..

The examination should be fun; ‘which is brighter, the green area or the red?’

‘Read as much of the chart as you can,with and without your glasses on’

‘Has your sight changed since your last visit?’

Sorry, could you repeat each question,as I cannot hear you properly.

And actually, my mood is hitting the skids;will this affect my sight?

150034 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to wendyk, 4, #908 of 1807 🔗

See below for my positive experience in a hospital eye clinic.
Adding to that post, the optometrist’s biomicroscope had a plastic barrier attached between her and me which caused her much trouble in accessing the controls. After some faffing she pulled it off and resumed as normal. As our faces were now about 1 foot apart and willing to go along with the mask nonsense at least in hospital, I asked if I should pull the mask over my nose (it was mouth only thus far) and she said no, it will mist up my lens. And so we proceeded as normal.

150055 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Andy Riley, 4, #909 of 1807 🔗

I’ve already checked that they’ll accept my badge and they’ve agreed; however, if they show signs of terror when my bare face appears at the door,I’ll call it a day.

Hoping for the best though.

150071 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 3, #910 of 1807 🔗

Fingers crossed.

150069 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Andy Riley, #911 of 1807 🔗


150066 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 2, #912 of 1807 🔗

Interesting! My optician contacted me several weeks ago to say my eye test is due. I was under the impression it should be due in January and I wasn’t sure how covid-bonkers it would be, so I ignored it. At least I haven’t had to fight for an appointment!

150145 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to wendyk, 3, #913 of 1807 🔗

Just keep saying “I’m sorry could you repeat that” or “sorry I can’t hear you “

150026 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #914 of 1807 🔗

I know it is tedious to shoe horn krankie into things on the face she has no place in. However. It is once again telling that krankie and the snp are not pulling the arms and legs off the UK government over vallance conflict of interest. Punches once again being pulled by faux opposition.

150049 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Basics, 6, #915 of 1807 🔗

She’s too busy talking about students and what “COVID” has done to them.

150172 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 5, #916 of 1807 🔗

Less freedom in Rosa Krankies Scottish regime than there is in Lukashenkos Belarus.

150027 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #917 of 1807 🔗

Rate of infection too slow

I know I am being provocative!
In my local Birmingham, the current weeks rate of 130 cases per 100 000, it would take 15 years for everyone in the city to get it and achieve herd immunity.

150035 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #918 of 1807 🔗

Not if they have cross reactive T cell immunity gained from other common coronavirus infections.


150192 ▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tim Bidie, -10, #919 of 1807 🔗

T cell immunity may exist but it’s not likely to be as widespread as has been suggested. We would not get large clusters of cases if a big proportion of the population had prior immunity.

150208 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 2, #920 of 1807 🔗

Define ‘case’. Define ‘large cluster’. Evidence? PCR tests do not detect infections

‘These studies provided limited data of variable quality that PCR results per se are unlikely to predict viral culture from human samples. Insufficient attention may have been paid how PCR results relate to disease. The relation with infectiousness is unclear and more data are needed on this.
If this is not understood, PCR results may lead to restrictions for large groups of people who do not present an infection risk.’


How confident are you of consistency between test kits at the present time, given problems previously?

‘Summary of the initial results:
1. There is considerable diversity of molecular platforms, reagents, kits and assay performance conditions in PHE and NHS laboratories providing SARS-CoV-2 molecular detection
2. There is evidence of quality assurance difficulties for key reagents due to global supply chain issues
3. Shortages of swabs and transport medium have led to local variations in sampling practice which may impact on assay performance through the introduction of inhibitors into biochemical reactions
4. There is no evidence of viral genetic drift as a basis for altered sensitivity of assay
5. Enzyme performance from external suppliers has degraded compared with original validation performance.’


150494 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Tim Bidie, -4, #921 of 1807 🔗

PCR tests do not detect infections

They do. The indicate growth trends which is the important factor when determining rate of infection.

150510 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 1, #922 of 1807 🔗

Trends are not the same as ‘infections’ Even if a trend indicates the direction in which real infections are probably moving – there are massive uncertainties about the level around which they are trending, and the error factors – which are probably very large and variable according to the sampling.

1 to 2 in 10000 is 100% growth and irrelevant (but ‘exponential’ in the Whitty/Vallance world)

1000 to 1500 in 10000 is 50% growth and may be significant


150574 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, #923 of 1807 🔗

No. They detect RNA. You have not even bothered to read the reference. No-one, consequently, can take your comments seriously.

Here are some of the relevant bits, in a spirit of helpfulness.

‘During our Open Evidence Review of oral-fecal transmission of Covid-19, we noticed how few studies had attempted or reported culturing live SARS-CoV-2 virus from human samples.

This surprised us, as viral culture is regarded as a gold standard or reference test against which any diagnostic index test for viruses must be measured and calibrated, to understand the predictive properties of that test. In viral culture, viruses are injected in the laboratory cell lines to see if they cause cell damage and death, thus releasing a whole set of new viruses that can go on to infect other cells.

We, therefore, reviewed the evidence from studies reporting data on viral culture or isolation as well as reverse transcriptase-polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR), to understand more about how the PCR results reflect infectivity.’

‘PCR detection of viruses is helpful so long as its accuracy can be understood: it offers the capacity to detect RNA in minute quantities, but whether that RNA represents infectious virus may not be clear.

‘The relation with infectiousness is unclear and more data are needed on this.’

‘If this is not understood, PCR results may lead to restrictions for large groups of people who do not present an infection risk.’


Precisely what is happening.

150327 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #924 of 1807 🔗

If someone has ”T-cell immunity” could they not still test positive as their ”T-cell immunity” deals with the virus attack – but their viral load is so low that they are not particularly infectios?

150343 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #925 of 1807 🔗

A case seems to be anyone shown to be positive after upto 45 cycles, prof heneghan has suggested anything beyond 25 cycles is too low a viral load to be relevant (well I think he did)

150501 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Major Panic, -3, #926 of 1807 🔗

I am not denying that PCR tests pick up False Positives but this is becoming a bit of a red herring.

The PCR test also picks up TRUE positives and since cases are increasing both TRUE & FALSE positives are increasing.

150522 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 1, #927 of 1807 🔗

But as we have no ‘gold standard’, and no correlation with symptoms, we have no measure of the proportion of real infection (as opposed to scraps of irrelevant RNA).

150589 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mayo, 1, #928 of 1807 🔗

The PCR test detects RNA. RNA does not necessarily mean infection. A positive result, consequently, can be a false positive, or a positive detection of RNA but no symptoms, so not a ‘case’, or a true positive. That is why the PCR test has to be combined with a medical assessment for symptoms. And even then, during rhinovirus/influenza infections, those symptoms could be linked to a false positive.

That is why all this data is junk and has been from the start. The PCR test is helpful in a pandemic but less helpful with very low levels of circulating virus. Read the work on this.

Coronavirus experts recognised what was going on as early as February

‘The (case) fatality rate is probably only 0.8%-1%. There’s a vast underreporting of cases in China. Compared to Sars and Mers we are talking about a coronavirus that has a mortality rate of 8 to 10 times less deadly to Sars to Mers. So a correct comparison is not Sars or Mers but a severe cold. Basically this is a severe form of the cold.’

Professor John Nicholls, clinical professor in pathology, University of Hong Kong, expert on coronaviruses. 06 February 2020

150651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mayo, #929 of 1807 🔗

Thanks, my point was – if you had t-cell immunity could you still have a mild infection as you fight it off, so test positive – but not be particularly infectious, or produce antibodies?

150674 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #930 of 1807 🔗

And could someone who was previously infected test positive
months later when their immune system despatches the virus a second, third, fourth time with no or v mild symptoms?

150664 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mayo, 1, #931 of 1807 🔗

As you are clearly a bedwetter, why do you come here? Do you enjoy being proved wrong?

150347 ▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, #932 of 1807 🔗

T-cell immunity does exist.
It is as likely to be as widespread as has been suggested.
Where are the large clusters of cases. Or do you mean PCR positives?

150502 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to Kevin 2, -4, #933 of 1807 🔗

Read my response to others. PCR picks up FALSE + TRUE positives. Both are increasing.

150511 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Mayo, 4, #934 of 1807 🔗

How do you know true positives are increasing? Nobody knows which, if any ‘positives’ are true positives.

150526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #935 of 1807 🔗

Precisely – we have no reliable calibration of this test which has been identified as unsuitable for diagnostic purposes.

150517 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mayo, 2, #936 of 1807 🔗

Oh dear – you are having to work hard if you come up with that sort of illogicality.

No ‘large clusters’ around at the moment, anyway. Not of real infection.

150030 Cecil B, 3, #937 of 1807 🔗

‘You ignorant servile scum, what the fuck are we doing here’


Exactly, what the fuck are we doing here

150032 swedenborg, 4, #938 of 1807 🔗


 Prof Gayet, famous infectious disease doc & hygienist Strasbourg Univ Hospital Virus must circulate among young. In my opinion, it’s only way epidemic can be extinguished.

This now coming up everywhere. Extreme SD delays that.

150037 assoc, replying to assoc, 4, #939 of 1807 🔗

From Office of National Statistics. In the most recent week for which figures are available (week 37, ending 11/9/20) 9811 people died. 99 death certificates mentioned Covid. QED

150044 ▶▶ DRW, replying to assoc, 2, #940 of 1807 🔗

But Two Weeks!

150041 kf99, replying to kf99, 2, #941 of 1807 🔗

Latest Andrew Neil show out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5HKaL-L19U
Graham Brady is on. Excellent.

150867 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kf99, #942 of 1807 🔗

Just listening now. He’s brilliant!

150042 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #943 of 1807 🔗

Brilliant comment to Snowdon’s article:

“A second lockdown would be catastrophic beyond words.”
No – this is what you all signed up to!
“Only a sucker would fall for the idea that the next lockdown will be a mere ‘circuit breaker’”
On 27 June 2019, the UK signed up to “net Zero” CO2 emissions. Remember that? Probably not because not many were told. Nor were many told what that means: Net Zero, means the end of the fossil fuel economy that created the modern world, it means the end of not just coal, not just oil for transport (i.e,. flying anywhere) but also to anything MADE with fossil fuels such as plastics, man-made fibres, fertilisers, chemicals, even plastic money.
These travel restrictions we have been putting up with, they are not temporaray, they are not going to go away – they are the New Normal everyone (but a few climate sceptics) signed up to.
Net Zero, is the destruction of the economy as we know it. And to achieve that there has to be a “Big Green Economic Reset”, which will effectively end the consumerist society we had and give us a “new normal”, where we all stay at home working (or not in work), where we have almost no consumer goods, and where the only items we have are those TV and internet, where the New Normal will pour out their 24/7 propaganda telling us how lucky we are to have been saved from the latest epidemic keeping us locked up. Wealth means consumption and consumption means CO2 emissions. So ending CO2 emissions means the destrution of wealth – which is just what the government are doing. So, they are doing what people voted for!!
And because no sane person outside the New Normal elite, is going to want that insane “Green Utopia” when they finally wake up and realise what it is, it also means the end of democracy and the imposition of a police state. So thanks a lot!
The second lockdown, is the start of our transition to the new normal. And it’s what almost every MP voted for and it is what most people voting Tory, or Labour or Lib Dem also voted for. It’s YOUR wet dream – a Green Utopia where our economy is sent back to the dark ages along with freedom we have had since magna carta.

150093 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #944 of 1807 🔗

i agree that all the individual measures being put in place seem to contribute to this objective. I would have poo pooed it 6 months ago, but now it all the building blocks seem to be shifting into position to make this happen under the cover of the “virus”.
I hope I’m wrong but i fear a scary future but the ER/green folks will be wetting themselves munching on tufo for 3 meals a day watching netfix!

150206 ▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #945 of 1807 🔗

Everything is made with fossil fuels – even solar panels. Logs are hauled to biomass plants with fossil fuels. Wind turbines emit worse atmosphere destroying gasses than CO2 plus they kill billions of insects, that upsets the equilibrium. Yet ‘they’ want net zero. It shows how ignorant the liberal elite is. Michael Moore’s Planet of the Humans is worth a watch on YouTube.

150232 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Neil Hartley, 2, #946 of 1807 🔗

I’ve been wondering about how PPE will fit into net zero.

It’s been set up as a must have by the mind benders, but now there are piles of the stuff waiting to be safely disposed of.

The same for the plastic dosing vials used for the new normal vaccines.

Are the master minds going to go all out for compostable/biodegradable PPE etc?
If not, how will they dispose of it?

Here in Sturgeon land ,each household is now obliged to accommodate 4 plastic wheelie bins, given out at no cost to local councils by Zero Waste Scotland.

Consequently, many paths and pavements are obstructed by bins.

This amounts to cognitive dissonance on an industrial scale; more plastic to save lives and reduce waste.

What do others think?

150325 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Neil Hartley, #947 of 1807 🔗

Make this film compulsory viewing for all youngsters if there is another lockdown – it can be part of home education!

150323 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #948 of 1807 🔗

I think a lot of young Greta fans do not realise that the manufacture of their mobiles is not very ‘green’! Nor their clothes, nor many other of their everyday appliances…

I like to remind them that when I was a child we used to get our milk in recyclable glass bottles and that the milk floats were battery-driven…

150854 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #949 of 1807 🔗

The key word is reusable .
We seem to have forgotten about that.

Recycling is less wasteful but uses resources and energy.

150046 Dave #KBF, 2, #950 of 1807 🔗

UK Column News is a must watch again today.

UK Column

150063 Cecil B, 15, #951 of 1807 🔗

If we do nothing they will just carry on

Old normal or no normal

I don’t like strikes but they have pushed us too far

Don’t go to work
Don’t pay taxes
Don’t use pubs
Don’t use public transport
Don’t use shops
Don’t use cafes
Don’t pay your gas, electric, poll tax etc
Don’t pay any money into banks
Ask for your wages in cash
Don’t spend any money
Don’t drive your car
Don’t pay car insurance or car tax
Don’t pay your TV licence
Unsubscribe from Sky, periodicals etc

Old normal or no normal

150075 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 20, #952 of 1807 🔗

Had good chat today with the staff at a car dealership I’ve dealt with for years.

No-one happy about the masks but had nothing from management about anything other than they must wear them.

Some dopey female member of staff tried to stir up trouble with the top boss about me an wife not wearing masks and the staff talking to us taking their’s off (I explain dot them either shout at meow take them off or I can’t understand a word you are saying) so the big boss got the person he knows I have dealt with most to challenge us.

Had a long discussion on the exemptions, laws, fines etc (which they had not been told about nor checked for themselves), how they were now liable for fines if I wanted to push it etc and then this morphed into a discussion about masks and tend angers, correct use of them and so on.

Again company had told them nothing and no-one had checked for themselves.

This then morphed into “what a crock of shit it all is, you seem to know a lot awkward git so tell us more where we can look things up for ourselves, do we have a nazi government now (asked them about the last government to make a minority were a mark on their clothing/person and so on and they twigged right way and looked disgusted it could happen here, they had never though about it before)” and so on and please contact head office and tell them the law and so on” which I will do this weekend.

Wife is despondent today and getting pissed off “being treated like a leper” as in Tesco it was quick shop s if anything kicked off by someone saying anything to her she said she wouldn’t be able to stop herself doing something violent to them so I had to just make odd comments about the disgusting filthy bastards playing with their bacteria laden masks then touching all the food, no wonder cases are increasing if this is the dirty behaviour of the mask wearing population, serves them right dirty gets and so on.

Did notice quiet a few people listening in and dropping their hands from their faces when they heard me though.

So a reasonable day.

150089 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #953 of 1807 🔗

Respect for pushing the issue in a gentle and civil way.

150090 ▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #954 of 1807 🔗

Funny you should say that!I have just had a run in with a charity shop who told me I had to wear a badge stating I was disabled. He was nasty,ignorant,and I did say *what like the Jews in nazi germany*.I have complained to head office,and e mailed Graham Brady.

Johnson cynically ruled mask wearing for retail staff,specifically knowing they would take it out on,and pressurise those exempt.Disgusted.

150091 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #955 of 1807 🔗

I think you’ll get the award for de-brainwashing the most people

150318 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #956 of 1807 🔗

Definitely! You should keep a score, AG, of how many converts you make!

150104 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #957 of 1807 🔗

I haven’t used it but I created a badge with a 5-pointed yellow star with I Am Exempt on it a while back. Obviously not a 6 pointed Star of David (as I’m not Jewish) but it was inspired by that image from a school recently. That image may indeed by false and unrelated but a star is a great image.

Anyone with any sense of history will see it.

I was thinking as well about the Japanese idea of armbands. The silent protest that in Japanese society reflects badly on the company or institution.

Do we have NO on an armband? “Momento Mori” (probably over people’s heads).

150137 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mhcp, 2, #958 of 1807 🔗

The 6 pointed start originated with the ancient Egyptians as afar s i know and the Jews did not use it until the 17th Century in Europe if I remember correctly so you are free to use it if you want.

150175 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #959 of 1807 🔗

Yes, just change the font and script to Exempt: Normal
Which will confuse them

150205 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 2, #960 of 1807 🔗

I was thinking of something like your star, with ‘human being’ in the middle.
Any Jewish sceptics here?What do they think? .Don’t want to upset Jewish sensibilities.

150849 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #961 of 1807 🔗

The six-pointed star is an ancient symbol, used in many cultures.
In the ancient Vedic tradition, it represented the union of opposites – Shiva/Shakti for example.
It can also represent the union of heaven and earth.
Powerful stuff.

150762 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to mhcp, 1, #962 of 1807 🔗

Someone here linked to a website yday about red and green armbands. I looked at it and wrote a scathing comment to the creator, who is nowhere to be found on the site. (I hate it when there is no company name or address on a website.) Had a very long and polite reply, although I likened his “armbands” – they are silicon bracelets, like they all had for charity 2 years ago – to yellow stars and Swastika armbands.
When I eventually calm down I will write back, as he was so polite. Just trying to help society with his idea. I find it divisive and not quite thought through.

150199 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #963 of 1807 🔗

Awkward Git Services Ltd!
A viable business?

150080 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #964 of 1807 🔗

I am a bit astonished that not more is being made of the devastating Doshi/Tobol article in the NYT, where they explain that the magical vaccines undergo trials that are designed so that those vaccines must only prove to be efficient in mild cases of Covid19, namely in those for which no vaccine is needed….
If I had my hopes or policies based upon a Covid19 vaccine, like Merkel, Ardern or any Zero-Covid er, I’d feel mightily scr×ewed now…
Jon Rappoport explains it well in crystal clear terms, as usual:

150115 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #965 of 1807 🔗

50% effectiveness is the target for the Oxford vaccine and it has 70-80% significantly side effects.
For a virus where 80%+ have no symptoms

150130 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to 6097 Smith W, 5, #966 of 1807 🔗

Effectiveness in mild cases, for which we don’t need a vaccine…
You couldn’t make it up.
46% of Oxford trial participants developed significant neutropenia. (C.Arvay)
I’d pass.

150182 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Jay Berger, 9, #967 of 1807 🔗

I think the pharma companies are getting nervous. Every doctor and scientist who, in their “old” lives, knew better than to bank on a coronavirus vaccine. There has never been a coronavirus vaccine to make it to market despite decades of attempts and they all know that immune-mediated enhancement is why they never make it past animal trials. Not to mention the never-before-attempted mRNA vaccine. So now the pharma companies, the scientific/medical people, and the politicians have to do something to save face. They stupidly shouted from the rooftops that the only way out of this mess is to vaccinate billions of people, so they’re now determined to do just that. Hey, if they injected everyone with saline and called it the magic Covid vaccine, I have no reason to believe the sheeple wouldn’t buy it. That would be a best case scenario — undo the hysteria they caused by pretending to vaccinate the world. Unfortunately, I believe they will go in a much more nefarious direction and the vaccine will do a lot of damage.

150314 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #968 of 1807 🔗

Giesecke referred to this when he spoke to the Irish Covid committee, that even if a vaccine was found within the near future (which he doubts) then it may likely *not* be effective for the age groups who are most vulnerable..

150087 leggy, replying to leggy, 3, #969 of 1807 🔗

Everyone needs to read this – the BMJ analyses the leaked Moonshot documents. Here’s your immunity passport.


150096 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to leggy, 2, #970 of 1807 🔗

An extract:

Do the documents acknowledge any concerns?

Yes, although not in great detail. In reference to the non-PCR tests, it is repeatedly noted that “new types of test are likely to be less accurate [than PCR], introducing some level of risk.”

Less accurate than PCR?

150099 ▶▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to Tenchy, 3, #971 of 1807 🔗

Doesn’t Toby say above that the Belgians have abandoned PCR? Does anyone have a source for that?

150138 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Neil Hartley, 3, #972 of 1807 🔗

It’s in yesterday’s comments

150180 ▶▶▶▶▶ hat man, replying to Julian, #973 of 1807 🔗

Can’t see it. The link provided that I saw (article in Brussels Times) was to the article about relaxing restrictions. It didn’t mention PCR tests.

Source please?

150766 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to hat man, #974 of 1807 🔗

Cannot dig out the source, but Belgium wants to base their policy on actual illnesses and hospital beds by covid patients. Not rely on Positive PCR tests.

150097 ▶▶ Neil Hartley, replying to leggy, 4, #976 of 1807 🔗

A health passport was always on the cards as is tracking of people through cashless payments (which they’re already doing according to the Andrew Neil program on Spectator TV last night). I’d take solace in the fact that our govt is incapable of achieving the stated aims of a digital health passport but, unfortunately, I don’t think they’re pulling the strings. Also, who’s going to benefit most from these draconian infringements on our civil liberties and human rights? None other than Herr Vallance via his vaccine shares.

150101 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to leggy, 7, #977 of 1807 🔗

The German ethics commission decided to advise against immunity passports this week on the grounds that the establishment of immunity is not reliable enough yet.
Once it was, half the members would be in favour of them, but only if very formal and secure (not ‘just’ a doctor’s entry in your vaccination record passport) , and, drumrolls: masks in public transport must still remain in place.
WTF has one to do with the other?
How on Earth can they claim to be the authority on masks efficacy?
Why the hell should one still need them, if those immunity passports were indeed reliable and secure?
It just goes to show how rigged the whole agenda is and always was.

150119 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to leggy, 9, #978 of 1807 🔗

So you can go to a sporting event if you test negative for Covid but you can be sick with any number of other infectious diseases??? TB, no problem. Ebola, no problem. I must say, “This is insanity” a hundred times a day.

150310 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to leggy, #979 of 1807 🔗

Can we get this information to Julia H-B or someone else who might broadcast this information more widely?

150831 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, #980 of 1807 🔗

Lower sensitivity testing for “screening/enabling purposes” could also be used, with polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing then used to “confirm positive results or in situations where accuracy is needed for highest risk individuals.”

Hmm. So much for current accuracy!

150092 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #981 of 1807 🔗

Zanzibar sounds good, if we can go in a chartered, 100% mask free, plane.
Closer by, I can throughly recommend Lugano, where life is vibrant and almost back to the old normal.

150109 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #982 of 1807 🔗

You hit on it for me — even if there are places to go, I can’t tolerate being masked on a plane. I have visions of chartering a plane with like-minded people instead of flying commercial. Or perhaps some airlines from “normal” places will drop the mask nonsense eventually. Seems very far off from where I’m sitting now, but it’s something to hope for.

150691 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #983 of 1807 🔗

Hear hear. I will not be boarding a plane until I can do so mask free. While I have sympathy for those airline staff who will be losing their jobs due to lockdown, I have no sympathy for anyone who imposes masks on others.

150131 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Jay Berger, #984 of 1807 🔗

2 seats for wife and I.

Leaving next week for 2-4 weeks would be good.

150191 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #985 of 1807 🔗

Pity the dog can’t come…

150136 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, #986 of 1807 🔗

What’s the current situation in Lugano? Masks anywhere? Other restrictions?

150177 ▶▶ Muzz Off, replying to Jay Berger, #987 of 1807 🔗

I was tempted to take the same line, but I’d encourage people thinking this way to give themselves a break and learn to love Big Brother just for a few hours on a flight, especially if you’re going somewhere sane. You will thank yourselves for it. I even forgot about the madness entirely for a whole day on my wilderness adventure in Scandinavia last month!

As long as you’re fighting back in daily life as much and as regularly as possible, you haven’t really compromised your principles.

150229 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Muzz Off, 1, #988 of 1807 🔗

As far as I know, you’re allowed to take the muzzle off to eat or drink so keep a bottle of water handy and take a swig every time an attendant passes.

150342 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Chicot, 1, #989 of 1807 🔗

Couldn’t you just try and eat something huge really slowly?

150349 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to DRW, 1, #990 of 1807 🔗

i would suggest a bag of multigrain / seeds from a health store . i got some from Aldi to sprinkle on my muesli. They are tiny. so eat these one at a time and chew each one for at least 30 seconds . Or linseed . they are even smaller . A small bag will last hours

150815 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, #991 of 1807 🔗

Bag of peanuts.

150107 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 15, #992 of 1807 🔗

The new carer for my mother in law just told us that the relatives of the person she cared for for many years, who passed away in the early summer this year of cancer, were offered €1.000 by the health authority, if they agreed that she had died of Covid 19.
Effing scandalous and very much telling.
That story even turned my obedient mother in law into a sceptic.

150118 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #993 of 1807 🔗

You should give any details to David Rose above.

150299 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to CGL, #994 of 1807 🔗

Definitely – he may have contacts in other countries who can investigate how common this is)

150153 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #995 of 1807 🔗

Unbelievable. You sure about that? Then again, nothing would surprise me.

150159 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #996 of 1807 🔗

Sounds like fraud to me

150186 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #997 of 1807 🔗

I’ve heard similar stories about people in Brazil who were offered money to accept that their relatives had died from Covid-19, when that clearly had not been the case.

150188 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #998 of 1807 🔗

Is there proof of this?

150210 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to annie, #999 of 1807 🔗

i would also want proof. .very sceptical about this. It would seem easier just to get Covid mentioned on the death certificate and let the system do the rest.. I note it mentions € and not £ .. so was this Ireland?

150223 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to mjr, #1000 of 1807 🔗

Jay is in Germany I believe.

150345 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1001 of 1807 🔗

aha .. makes sense… maybe they are not routinely marking every death certificate as being covid related as we do in the UK – they are actually having to be honest …. and so need to cheat in this way

150225 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to mjr, 2, #1002 of 1807 🔗

Dolores Cahill has had the Irish death numbers brought down from 1700 to 100 for precisely this reason – cause of death being wrongly quoted as Covid.

150309 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1003 of 1807 🔗

In your position I would communicate this to everyone I knew and thereby hopefully get an idea of how widespread this practice is – ie if your friends have heard similar stories – and if (for example) doctors are getting a fee for each person who they decide died of Covid…

If you find a number of examples of this happening then you might be able to send your findings to a sympathetic sceptic in Germany (?) who could broadcast it more widely..

150473 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1004 of 1807 🔗

A neighbour’s parent was tested several times for Covid. Three or four negatives but the doctors still said it could be Covid 19 related! I don’t know what went on the death certificate.

150114 nocheesegromit, replying to nocheesegromit, 18, #1005 of 1807 🔗

Report from my uni library:

  • Masks compulsory despite currently having a whole room to myself and there being about 5 people in the building (of course it will get busier as term doesn’t start till Monday, but with these measures I can’t see many others coming here)
  • Someone at the entrance watches you and make sure you use hand sanitiser, which is automatic so I can’t do my usual pretending routine (I have very sensitive skin so always use soap and water if I can)
  • You have to wipe down the table and chair you’ve been sitting at once you’ve finished, but the chairs are fabric so not sure how that works
  • The toilets are very interesting – only 2 people in at a time so you have to knock before entering, not very convenient if you’re bursting for a piss. Then you must wipe down the door handle on your way out… but surely you will have to touch it at some point, giving it your nasty germs? I just used my sleeve as I always have done.
  • You have to wipe down anything you’ve touched, including the water bottle refill stations, yet more pointless time-wasting

Overall not like the gulags in Scotland but definitely feels more like an institution for hypochondriacs than a place to study.

150127 ▶▶ Londo Mollari, replying to nocheesegromit, 9, #1006 of 1807 🔗

Universities are the Grand Central Station of Craziness.

150158 ▶▶ DRW, replying to nocheesegromit, 6, #1007 of 1807 🔗

Bloody hell. And I bet it still doesn’t go far enough for the zealots.

150245 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DRW, 6, #1008 of 1807 🔗

“We want everyone entering the library, to be deep cleaned, by being dipped in a vat of Dettol before entry, and again when leaving the library.

Any books used must be burnt, to prevent stuff like learning taking place.

150269 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1009 of 1807 🔗

Incidentally books must be quarantined for 72 hours if a student uses them (I know – touching a book – gasp, shock horror)

150285 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to nocheesegromit, 5, #1010 of 1807 🔗

This is in force at our local library, which opens for only 3 hours each day.

Secondly, inter-library loans are suspended ,as Calamitous Covid has sneakily mutated ,such that it can hitch a ride on any books which might travel between local libraries.

I suspect that Calamitous Covid has now become a viral borg, with an AI neural network, which allows it to outfox public library safety standards.

150324 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to nocheesegromit, #1011 of 1807 🔗

Soap and water works by removing viruses (and other foreign material), but how do antibacterials work?

150332 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #1012 of 1807 🔗

Do not question the Holy Water!

150810 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, #1013 of 1807 🔗

They only work against viruses if they have a very high alcohol content.

150744 ▶▶ Geraint, replying to nocheesegromit, 2, #1014 of 1807 🔗

Vice Chancellors need to justify their vast multi hundred thousand pound salaries, by egging each other on with ever more outrageous restricions / virtue signalling – after all they are managing ‘global businesses’ – what a joke

150116 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #1015 of 1807 🔗

I have been invited to part of the Office of National Statistics “Covid Infection Survey”. Randomly selected. It is intended to include 220,000 homes.

You get a £50 voucher for the first test and £25 for each subsequent test. Potentially one can be tested up to 16 times over a full year.

Everyone above the age of 2 in the household can take part!

This will be costing well in excess of £100,000,000.

But what I have to ask is this.

What is the false positive rate for a test?

Is it not 0.8%?

I ask because here’s the dis-incentive. If a positive result comes up – two weeks isolation naturally follows!

150140 ▶▶ Matt The Cat, replying to Ned of the Hills, 8, #1016 of 1807 🔗

There you go, then – Have absolutely NOTHING to do with this lunacy!

150150 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1017 of 1807 🔗

Is not the result of the test confidential? In fact, do they link positive tests to actual individuals or just to a demographic profile of the individual (I suspect the former, given the voracious appetite for personal information demonstrated by all branches of government)?

150264 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1018 of 1807 🔗

One’s GP will be told the results

The leaflet says:

“We are also required by law to share your positive result and personal data….with Public Health England…. By taking part in the survey you agree to this disclosure taking place.

150179 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #1019 of 1807 🔗

Do it, but swab a different vegetable or fruit on each test, film it, then if the test comes back as positive you can show them exactly what you did and the futility of these test.

150190 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1020 of 1807 🔗

Wow, I had no idea this scheme existed. Thanks for mentioning it, that’s quite a powerful way to point out to people how they’re literally inciting infections.

I made a graphic that I’ve sent around to a few people:
comment image

150287 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to John Galt, 2, #1021 of 1807 🔗

There are two surveys going on. Last week a chum of mine was sent a kit to test himself. No dosh for him.

This survey involves some one calling at your house.

Not sure how the ‘gift’ is sent. Some outfit called Sodexo is doing that.

It is an A4 12 page leaflet I’ve received – large print mind. Mostly it seems to follow what’s on this site.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/surveys/informationforhouseholdsandindividuals/householdandindividualsurveys/covid19infectionsurveycis#how-to-take-part .

I’m off for a walk now – no more responses for awhile.

150338 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1022 of 1807 🔗

Sodexo run the canteens at a couple of places i have worked at !! major outsourcer and beneficiary of government largesse

150771 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to mjr, 1, #1023 of 1807 🔗

As I just today quit working for Sodexo, I totally agree.
They are making shit loads, my whole management team and other staff was outsourced to a testing center, our GM got their family jobs there.

150298 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John Galt, 1, #1024 of 1807 🔗

The ! after the bit about people over 2 shouts at me that the (not so)subliminal message they wish to communicate is ‘look how much money you and your household can make from this’)…

150217 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #1025 of 1807 🔗

these have been coming out for a couple of months now .. probably still sending them out as most people like me have binned them or kept them in case there is another toilet paper shortage

150239 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1026 of 1807 🔗

I suggest you read the full information on the relevant page.


But beware! “ We use current COVID-19 infections to mean testing positive for SARS-CoV-2, with or without having symptoms, on a swab taken from the nose and throat.”

150142 Aldebaran, replying to Aldebaran, 12, #1027 of 1807 🔗

Got chucked out of the local post office this morning. One of the people behind the till made a ‘where is your mask’ gesture. It’s OK, I said cheerfully, I’m exempt.
Post office person: ‘Where’s your lanyard then?’
Me: I don’t need one.
Post office person: ‘Yes, you do. You can’t come in here without one’.
Me: Why, yes I can. The government says I can.
Post office person: ‘I’ve been told that you can’t. I’m only following instructions. You’ll need to discuss it with the manager’

The manager isn’t in till tomorrow. When I got home I found the statutory instrument and the government guidance and have printed off copies. I’ll go back tomorrow and discuss it with the manager and will try to explain the position calmly and rationally. I’ve been going around mask-free for some weeks now and haven’t previously had any trouble. I suspect, though, that this type of encounter is going to become a lot more common.

You can see which way this might go… government repeals any inconvenient laws about disability… makes you wear some kind of special badge…. herds you into camps… etc. In order to facilitate this scenario, of course, you’d need ‘normal’ people to be able to say they were only following orders…

150280 ▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to Aldebaran, 4, #1028 of 1807 🔗

Like you,I never had any problems until now…..guessing it’s because the staff now have to wear masks themselves.Good old behavioural insights at it again I would say.

150313 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Kelly deacons, 5, #1029 of 1807 🔗

Today the guy on the checkout at Tesco and the car dealership service guys were happy to speak to someone face-to-face and not covered up and were both glad that I knew facts, figures etc so they could go and start researching things themselves.

150548 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Aldebaran, 1, #1030 of 1807 🔗

So frustrating for you to say the very least. I have been in a similar position recently. I had previously decided to bookmark the govt face covering page on my phone and show the ‘unenlightened one’ the Exemption cards bit – highlighting to them where it talks about the use of exemption cards “This is personal choice and is not necessary in law”. Not saying it will work every time, but worked for me on the one occasion.

150588 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Aldebaran, #1031 of 1807 🔗

Hi Aldebaran

Do you have links to these documents please, I think many of us may need them soon.

150149 steve_w, replying to steve_w, #1033 of 1807 🔗

when this covid bollox is over we’ve got to recover the economy with minimal job losses

I reckon the best way is to move to a 3 day weekend

150185 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to steve_w, 7, #1034 of 1807 🔗

It will be a 7 day weekend. They’ll be no jobs.

150333 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Hubes, 3, #1035 of 1807 🔗

Surely it can only be a 6 day weekend.. 7 days breaks the “rule of 6”

150263 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to steve_w, #1036 of 1807 🔗

The number of days a weeks someone works is a matter only for them and their employer to decide.

150487 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Saved To Death, #1037 of 1807 🔗

The number of hours is regulated. Thankfully there are limits on what an employer can demand of an employee.

150799 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve_w, #1038 of 1807 🔗

4 day weekend.

150155 assoc, 2, #1039 of 1807 🔗

Talk of a ‘passport’ invites comparisons with the Yellow Fever certificate needed for certain foreign travel. Various companies produce yellow fever vaccine, the Chinese market is supplied by ….. The Wuhan Institute of Biological Products!

150163 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 3, #1040 of 1807 🔗
150226 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Major Panic, 3, #1041 of 1807 🔗

Thanks Major, two things. Firstly, John Bishop worked as a Pharma salesman – which may/may not be relevant. The second, and perhaps more serious. Son 1, who like his mum, is partial to a decent red, complained about the wine being ‘off’ that I had already opened and tested at our first family meal after he arrived home from Uni back in March. This was before the loss of taste and smell was added to the list of covid symptoms. He had a slight temperature for a couple of days but the loss of taste and smell lasted for about four days. His two Uni friends had to have tests when they arrived back in their home countries – tested positive, albeit no symptoms. How much time and money could we have saved by following John Bishop!

150328 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Major Panic, #1042 of 1807 🔗

brilliant ….

150187 jhfreedom, replying to jhfreedom, 17, #1043 of 1807 🔗

It would be quite good to have a national ‘Coronaphobia rating’ scheme for shops and hospitality venues. Like a hygiene rating scheme. A 1 would be maximum phobia where you would be barked at and the experience would be miserable. A 5 would be a place where everyone is claiming mask exemption, no one is asking you to wear a mask and the rules are followed in name only.

150201 ▶▶ John Galt, replying to jhfreedom, 22, #1044 of 1807 🔗

On a similar note, if you ever want to visit an attraction but you’re unsure about how insane they’re going to be about everything, look it up on TripAdvisor. I was debating whether or not to go to a Water Park, so I looked it up on TripAdvisor and a lot of recent 1 star reviews were complaining about the lack of corona restrictions. That swayed me into going, so I went and it was the most fun I’ve had in a long time. They didn’t care one iota about anything.

I even sent them an email afterwards thanking them for not giving in to the lunacy and they sent a nice reply back.

150292 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John Galt, 1, #1045 of 1807 🔗

A water park with Chlorine EVERYWHERE. Could that be why they aren’t bothered?

150311 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1046 of 1807 🔗

It was a water park on a lake. They had the usual signs up like I imagine they’re required to but the staff and owners clearly think it’s nonsense as they didn’t say a word about it the whole time I was there.

150790 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, #1047 of 1807 🔗

Some swimming pools didn’t seem to be capable of connecting those dots.

150379 ▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to John Galt, 3, #1048 of 1807 🔗

What a great story, made my day. The key as a business is to do ‘just enough’ and make it clear to the coronaphobes that if they don’t like it they can go and bedwet elsewhere.

150506 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to John Galt, 1, #1049 of 1807 🔗

Let’s have more of this, FANTASTIC.

150789 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John Galt, #1050 of 1807 🔗

Good to know!

150251 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to jhfreedom, 5, #1051 of 1807 🔗

Excellent idea. A sort of Covid Trust pilot where shops, stores and public services can be rated. I also think our MPs should be rated too.

150258 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #1052 of 1807 🔗

I’d be worried about the 5* rated places getting targeted.

150303 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to jhfreedom, 4, #1053 of 1807 🔗

A QR code has appeared on the outdoor ice cream stall in my local park, for track and trace. Surely queuing in the open air for 2 minutes wouldn’t result in an order to self isolate for 14 days? If so we’re stuffed. Extra stuffed I mean.

150791 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #1054 of 1807 🔗

That’s asking for a boycott!

150197 ArchieMD, replying to ArchieMD, 24, #1055 of 1807 🔗

Do people really believe that a pandemic respiratory virus can be controlled by government leaders micromanaging society’s behaviours on a week by week basis? Watching Sturgeon’s press conference at lunch time, she explained how one specific group would be restricted from visiting pubs (students) , ‘just for this weekend’, whilst they try to adjust the pandemic infection rate down to a more manageable level.

If you’d stood up at a pandemic planning conference last year and suggested that governments could use measures of this kind to fine tune the R number or ‘control’ a pandemic in any way, you would have been laughed out of the room. Now it’s the widely accepted view.

Why students, and not all those other young people of the same age who don’t happen to be students? – such as those in employment, or the unemployed? And telling a university student that they are not permitted to go home for the weekend to their families?

The truth is we are dealing in pseudoscience here, and the more they try to act out this idea that governments can control pandemic infections, the more contradictory, inflammatory and absurd the measures become. It would be funny if it were not so damaging. The prevalence of an established mental health history in some student intakes is high – as many as a third of all students entering some types of course. The most common conditions are anxiety, depression and eating disorders. Any university will have hundreds of students across its population who are attending university for the first time, whilst trying to manage such conditions. The risk of triggering exacerbations of mental health conditions has got to be very high in denying these individuals access to support networks, and most importantly access to their families.

What evidence is there that such risks have even been considered by Sturgeon and her advisors?

I despair…

150202 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to ArchieMD, 4, #1056 of 1807 🔗

What happens to part-time students, are they allowed to go out on either Saturday or Sunday?

150207 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to ArchieMD, 3, #1057 of 1807 🔗

It’s dangerous madness of the worst kind.

150212 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to ArchieMD, 5, #1058 of 1807 🔗

As I commented yesterday, they are suffering from a complete delusion of control just like in the past where people believed the rituals they did controlled the weather.

150289 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Achilles, #1059 of 1807 🔗

Aye, just like bairns building sand castles on a beach with with constantly repaired ramparts to fend off the incoming tide.

150228 ▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to ArchieMD, #1060 of 1807 🔗

Spot on.

150235 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to ArchieMD, 5, #1061 of 1807 🔗

What evidence is there that such risks have even been considered by Sturgeon and her advisors?

Fuck all as always

150254 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to ArchieMD, 4, #1062 of 1807 🔗

If it is incompetence then they will continue to increase measures as cases rise which mean continually locking people down. One weekend becomes two. Students only becomes anyone under 25. And it goes on. Because their circuit breaker approach (clearly management consultant stuff that) is built on this insane assumption of control as you point out.

If it is no it incompetence then they are using you. They are doing this to break your will for alterior agendas to be rolled out. What they are is speculation, you can guarantee its nothing to do with democracy or inidividal freedom however

150290 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #1063 of 1807 🔗

Stalin is oddson to make the October holidays the first mini-lockdown, and even if I accept that lockdowns help and anything can be done, why lock down the country when the kids are at home as opposed to when they are at school mixing?

150274 ▶▶ Julian, replying to ArchieMD, #1064 of 1807 🔗

Some people believe it. More don’t than do, in my view, but go along with it and say “it’ll all be OK when we get a vaccine”.

150294 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #1065 of 1807 🔗

I would advise such people to listen to what Giesecke says about the imminence (and likelihood of effectiveness) of vaccines – bear in mind he is a Swede and Astra Zeneca is part Swedish-owned..

150312 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Julian, 2, #1066 of 1807 🔗

Imagine taking that attitude with AIDS in the 80s. Sex would still be banned after nearly 40 YEARS.

150786 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, #1067 of 1807 🔗

They tried their best!

150198 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 15, #1068 of 1807 🔗

Good news, the stupid housing association just came round and re-attached my bastard drain pipe!
Just goes to show a well written and carefully targeted letter can get results.

Take Heart!

150213 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1069 of 1807 🔗

Great news Two-Six. Power to the People, Stick it to the Man.

150200 NickR, replying to NickR, 3, #1070 of 1807 🔗

If at a university more than, say, 40% had had the virus would the prevailing focus be, oh sod it, let’s get everyone a dose then we can forget the charade & get on with life. Will there be a tipping point or would these maniacs keep trying to ‘protect’ the minority once the ‘vulnerable’ (80% by Ferguson’s guess 20% by Levitt, 50% by Gupta) majority were immune through prior infection.

150203 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #1072 of 1807 🔗

Many on LS watch the UK Column. Today they again presented an epic amount of thought and analysis. As Doubting Dave has said earlier it feels like essential viewing. If you’ve never watched todays is a good one to try. Three times a week with various regular guests and presenters.

I would like to mentiin especially Mike Robinson. The amount and quality of investigative work Mike puts out under tge added pressure of being tge onscreen producer is incredible. Mike has a place among the best journalists working to uncover the fraud. Mike Robinson. Brilliant.

The whole episode relevant to LS discussions – indeed two LS articles are mentioned with respect for there high quality.


150774 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1073 of 1807 🔗


150215 John Galt, replying to John Galt, 21, #1074 of 1807 🔗

After receiving emails from ASDA and Sainsbury’s talking about how stringent they’re now going to be on face masks, I emailed the CEO’s of both asking why exemptions aren’t mentioned. We’ll see what reply I get.

150218 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to John Galt, 2, #1075 of 1807 🔗

Best of luck with that.

150222 ▶▶ mjr, replying to John Galt, 5, #1076 of 1807 🔗

i had similar correspondence with Aldi about their rules for staff which was interesting …. However their attitude to customers seems still to be extremely relaxed

150224 ▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to mjr, 5, #1077 of 1807 🔗

That’s good, I’ve been shopping in ALDI pretty much since it started and nobody has cared one bit.

150231 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to mjr, 5, #1078 of 1807 🔗

The German supermarkets, Aldi & Lidl, do seem more laid back than our traditional supermarkets.

150253 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #1079 of 1807 🔗

Yes, they are, but I expect that to fade away any day, now. If only because of the plebs moaning that other supermarkets are doing more “to keep us safe”. You know, the same supermarkets they’ve shopped in throughout this shit show, including ‘peak season’.

150419 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1080 of 1807 🔗

The same supermarkets where none of the employees have died…….

150769 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #1081 of 1807 🔗

Yes. I had a very relaxed trip to Aldi on Tuesday evening.
It’s a quiet time, so I can’t comment on what daytime in there is like but the guy whose job is to hover somewhere near the entrance completely ignored me.
Two of us customers were muzzle-free, he with his bemuzzled girlfriend. (Eh?!)
There was one bodyswerve by a customer as I reached for a bottle of vino. That’s the first one ever (swerve not vino!) However, I had a nice smiley chat with the checkout girl.

150357 ▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to John Galt, #1082 of 1807 🔗

I avoid both companies anyway

150221 ColoradoGirl, replying to ColoradoGirl, 11, #1083 of 1807 🔗

So this is happening in Boulder, Colorado. gazette.com/tncms/asset/editorial/3b112214-fe79-11ea-afd5-13c451a060e1
“Gatherings of college-age Boulder residents were banned Thursday, a day after the flagship campus in the city reported the state’s largest COVID-19 outbreak. Young adults 18 to 22 years old may ‘go about their business individually, but not with anyone else,’ Authorities left no doubt they are serious about the ban on gatherings—anyone violating the order faces a $1000 city fine and a $5000 fine and 18 months in jail under state law.” The cities and states of America are running to follow Victoria’s lead. Where does it end? I despair.

150243 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to ColoradoGirl, 6, #1084 of 1807 🔗

It doesn’t. Look, it takes people to be willing to go to jail clearly. They keep upping the ante but the majority acquiesce for fear of the consequences.

150230 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1085 of 1807 🔗

I recommended Del Bigtree and The High Wire some time ago, but as we have moved on I will recommend it again.

His show was removed from YouTube a couple of months ago.

MSM will have us believe Del is an antivaxer, I suggest you make you own minds up.

The latest episode is here:


150763 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, #1086 of 1807 🔗

I wonder how long before the UK has a “twindemic”

150238 CGL, replying to CGL, 13, #1087 of 1807 🔗

Me,2 highly qualified accountants 1 other colleague – 75% of us are crazy enough to think that a mask stops a virus and that I’m talking bollocks when I say they’re useless. How did they get where they are and how am I not on a LOT more money.

150271 ▶▶ Julian, replying to CGL, 8, #1088 of 1807 🔗

Intelligence is no guarantee against stupidity, madness and cowardice

150306 ▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Julian, 4, #1089 of 1807 🔗

Imagination, not intelligence, is what needs to be awakened within most.

150304 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to CGL, 1, #1090 of 1807 🔗

The more “clever” they are they more they believe it all

150701 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to CGL, 2, #1091 of 1807 🔗

I am an accountant working in a team of 6 – I am the only sceptic 🙁

150732 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #1092 of 1807 🔗

I think I have managed to make my manager see a little bit of light. I am rubbish at remembering the right facts and figures when I need to – i get too flustered. All I got today was “it’s just a mask – they’re not chopping your arm off’.

150240 Ceriain, replying to Ceriain, 10, #1093 of 1807 🔗

A couple of observations:
Is it just me, or are the daily figures being released later and later each day?

Today’s England hospital numbers have got 2 deaths recorded today, died in April !!

31 of the 33 covid deaths are over 60.

Solution (in Scotland, anyway): lock up students. Madness!

150417 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ceriain, 1, #1094 of 1807 🔗

CDC survival rates – age
0-19 – 0.00003%
20-49 – 0.0002%

Bloody soap dodging students!!!

150491 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to stefarm, 1, #1095 of 1807 🔗

Survival? You’ve got me worried.

150241 mjr, replying to mjr, 28, #1096 of 1807 🔗

I have just had a 30 minute conversation with my MP. Just by phone as i couldnt get zoom to work ( I am a luddite) . This was about a personal matter which she is helping with.
However as she had tweeted sceptically last week, i chatted with her for about 10 minutes about covid. Wonderful. She is fully behind next weeks exercise of holding the government to account re renewal and agreed with me about the dodgy figures for testing and reference only being made to cases and not deaths etc. She even mentioned something i was not aware of – the fact that NHS are paying private hospitals to keep spaces free for covid “victims” If more MPs were like her this would all be sorted quickly.
I actually feel quite hopeful now

150265 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mjr, 4, #1097 of 1807 🔗

What’s here name so we can message her with support?

150266 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1098 of 1807 🔗

Beat me to it!

150291 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1099 of 1807 🔗

Its Lucy Allen (con) … her tweet was featured on here last week I think there are quite a few MPs who are getting more and more sceptical.. Dont think you need to message her… Better to concentrate on the unresponsive MPs

150406 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to wendyk, #1101 of 1807 🔗

I read that as kind of a breaking news headline:


We now go live to the southern studio where a journalist will ask actually pertinent questions”

150247 DRW, replying to DRW, 5, #1102 of 1807 🔗

Had an ad for retirement properties today. Advertised 25% less covid infection for over 65s and 4 times less for over 85s. Are people really that obsessed with it?

150250 ▶▶ leggy, replying to DRW, 8, #1103 of 1807 🔗

I’m afraid that they are, yes.

150268 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to DRW, 1, #1104 of 1807 🔗

Does it say less than what/where? The mind boggles.

150297 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Charlie Blue, #1105 of 1807 🔗

National average I presume. No source quoted funnily enough!

150248 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 6, #1106 of 1807 🔗

Posted this yesterday and will do so for the next few days as posts get ‘lost’ so easily on here.

I’ve devised a simple poster for a leafleting campaign. Toby thinks it’s a good idea but doesn’t have time to ‘run with it’.

I’m not a graphic designer – but it’s designed to be factual and ‘hook’ people into finding out more.

It can be printed by most online printing companies (some such as on Ebay may be very cheap). I got 500 delivered from http://www.solopress.com for about £25 (I have no association).

So for a few quid you can help spread the message by getting some printed and putting them through doors. If there is a graphic designer who would like to come up with something better please do.

A low res version is here


and a high res version A5 (with 3mm bleed ready for printing) is here


150267 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #1107 of 1807 🔗

I wonder if leaflet distributors or Royal Mail would agree to deliver something like this – if it was crowdfunded then we may be able to reach many more people than doing it ourselves.

150725 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1108 of 1807 🔗

Have a word with your local takeaways?

150256 court, replying to court, 10, #1109 of 1807 🔗

I detest litter normally but seeing this made my day

150262 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to court, 4, #1110 of 1807 🔗

Nice, perhaps go get them later, they will be worth a few quid £20 at least. 😉

Wear a mask….and gloves tee hee

150296 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to court, 6, #1111 of 1807 🔗

Do you live near Annie? She is a prolific sign puller downerer.

150300 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1112 of 1807 🔗

Wonder if they were in horse range

150272 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #1113 of 1807 🔗

My 6-year-old coming up behind me whilst I was reading various news articles:

“Why is so much stuff about that Boris thing?”

Explained that he is what is commonly known as a buffoon, cue much hilarity!

150277 ▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1114 of 1807 🔗

‘thing’ is definitely the preferred way to describe BoJo. Sensible kid!

150704 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1115 of 1807 🔗

“that Boris thing”

Couldn’t have put it better myself.

150275 Guirme, 24, #1116 of 1807 🔗

Starting to feel a bit on edge. Sitting in the warm sunshine in a very relaxed south of France but having to prepare to set off back to the appalling Scottish dictatorship. We are amongst the very very few British down here and we haven’t met any other Scots. However we have enjoyed good French company and doing illegal (back home) things like eating in crowded restaurants, shopping in busy shops, swimming in boisterous swimming pools; we even went to a concert a few nights ago with real singing, no social distancing, no masks; life as it ought to be.
The cost of all this? Two weeks house arrest when we return home. Is it worth it? Of course it is!

150278 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 13, #1117 of 1807 🔗

I’m surprised at universities because they could just do a Diamond Princess but with the added benefit that the risk of death is less than a lightning bolt.

It would take 3 weeks. There you go all done! Then they could charge the government a “immunity” fee for helping the community

150282 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mhcp, 2, #1118 of 1807 🔗

From what I have heard the people who run them are very keen on safetyism

I am pretty sure that unis will be the last institutions to remove restrictions, long after everywhere else has got back to normal

150284 ▶▶ jb12, replying to mhcp, 12, #1119 of 1807 🔗

The problem is that the universities are run by the same type of asshat that is advising Nicola Stalin to adopt a ‘zero Covid’ policy in Scotland.

150363 ▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to jb12, 1, #1120 of 1807 🔗

that asshat is only doing this to try and stop Trump getting elected

roll on November 4th when this ‘pandemic’ will be over

150368 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to steve_w, 1, #1121 of 1807 🔗

My birthday, I might sit up and watch the election and get smashed out of my tiny brain

150380 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to stefarm, #1122 of 1807 🔗

Its going to be great 🙂

150376 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to steve_w, -1, #1123 of 1807 🔗

Who gives a shit about Trump – just a different arsehole? This is here and now.

150467 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to steve_w, #1124 of 1807 🔗

..depending on who wins..

150580 ▶▶▶▶ jb12, replying to steve_w, #1125 of 1807 🔗

The world (with a few exceptions) hasn’t shut down because of Trump’s potential re-election, that is just absurd.

150371 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to jb12, 3, #1126 of 1807 🔗

We live in an era where many turds rise to the top to float. This applies from government down through many organisations.

Of course, it’s not an all-embracing rule, and there are still good managers, but the traditional UK weakness in this area of management is now greater than it has ever been, I reckon.

The present cabinet is a prime example – powered by weak narcissism picking creeps. We see it in parliament, with an excess of 12-year old ‘professional’ politicians who’ve never been anywhere or done anything significant.

NHS management is clearly run by political arse-creeps rather than principled managers driven by medical ethics, ‘academy’ school chains with their parallel self-seekers in suits and pointy shoes.

Why should universities be any different?

The era of posy sit-ins against management may have been a bit irritating at times – but I know which I prefer.

150279 Fingerache Philip., 16, #1127 of 1807 🔗

I’ve noticed that Wankcock’s favourite saying at the moment is SUPER SIMPLE”
Well, that’s a perfect discription of him.

150283 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1128 of 1807 🔗


SAGE minutes July just published Par 11 and 12interesting.In Leicester the increase in young adults was not followed by the same increase in children and old adults

150286 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1129 of 1807 🔗

Very interesting, as it also means there will likely not be an uptick in deaths as a result..

150288 JulieR, replying to JulieR, 21, #1130 of 1807 🔗

Just listened to a Glasgow second year student on LBC. She is self-isolating after helping with Fresher’s week. She has no symptoms, not done test. She is self-isolating just in case. And she doesn’t know anyone with symptoms.
How dense is she? Completely brainwashed.

150301 ▶▶ jb12, replying to JulieR, 8, #1131 of 1807 🔗

She is, what the kids call, a ‘virtue signaller’.

150680 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jb12, 1, #1132 of 1807 🔗

She’s a shill, paid or otherwise.

150305 ▶▶ mjr, replying to JulieR, 7, #1133 of 1807 🔗

and if second year shouldnt be in halls so this is drastic overkill . just had a long phone conversation with my daughter – also 2nd year who has been back at uni this week in her new shared digs and whilst she wears a mask to comply as much as she needs to, she thinks it is all so ridiculous. she still doesnt know what face to face tuition she will get. She mentioned some friends there that had party of about 15 and got visited by plod and threatened but fortunately not fined

150316 ▶▶ watashi, replying to JulieR, 7, #1134 of 1807 🔗

A bit like the young lad (17ish?) who I saw earlier on a walk passing in one direction then saw him again walking back forgot my mask he said you don t need it I said just say you re exempt if asked

oh no he said I wouldn t want to risk catching it`…so sad that these young people think that they are at risk.

150336 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to watashi, 4, #1135 of 1807 🔗

and that a mask protects them

150353 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to watashi, 4, #1136 of 1807 🔗

Yes – but don’t blame them.

They have been subjected to the most all-embracing propaganda psyops that I have ever known – a notch up even on the egregious smearing of Corbyn.

150523 ▶▶▶▶ jhfreedom, replying to RickH, 2, #1137 of 1807 🔗

Yes and no. You have a responsibility to research what you are told before swallowing it wholesale…

150687 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jhfreedom, #1138 of 1807 🔗

You learn that from life experiences, it’s called wisdom.
These are kids straight out of school. They don’t even have fully-developed frontal lobes.

150319 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JulieR, #1139 of 1807 🔗

Science student or medicine? Or politics..

150320 ▶▶ JYC, replying to JulieR, 3, #1140 of 1807 🔗

But students traditionally like to protest and stand against oppressive regimes throughout the world. I’m sure it will only be a few days until they are protesting in campuses across the country at this infringement of their liberties.

150360 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JYC, 7, #1141 of 1807 🔗

it is amazing how they can be so pro XR and Greta, so pro BLM, and yet so meek and sheeplike when it comes to covid

150689 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JYC, #1142 of 1807 🔗

My generation did. Thatcher put an end to that when she hobbled the unions.

150350 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to JulieR, 3, #1143 of 1807 🔗

Or just a lazy cunt

150430 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to JulieR, 1, #1144 of 1807 🔗

She’s, as they say in Glasgow, “ripping the pish”

150295 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, #1145 of 1807 🔗

Can someone explain something about the govt dashboard for cases please?

Where I live in Herts, the local paper is panicking because my city and district has 30 cases per 100,000, about twice the national average.

However on the dashboard where you can view rate per 100,000 by region or LA the district is reported as 499 per 100,000 and all the rates on there are in the hundreds.

Not sure if this is some sort of cumulative case rate or am I misunderstanding something?

150326 ▶▶ theanalyst, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1146 of 1807 🔗

The most detailed weekly data can be found by looking at the in the ‘Cases by local area in England’ section on the dashboard (bottom right) If you click on the down arrow in the top right of this box it allows you to download the local data in text or Excel. Hovering over the map works for most recent week only. Hope that helps you.

150482 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to theanalyst, #1147 of 1807 🔗

Thanks, hadn’t noticed that little arrow.

150673 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to theanalyst, #1148 of 1807 🔗

NB it’s always at least four days out of date!
So if you’re in an area threatened with local mockdown, it isn’t much help.

150346 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, #1149 of 1807 🔗

“Cases” = What ????. That’s the problem.

The ‘dashboard’ should be treated with absolute suspicion. Since when has the government published additional data without an ulterior motive?

The basic problem we face is that the best indicator – ‘all-cause’ mortality – has a time-lag.

150483 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, 1, #1150 of 1807 🔗

It’s more the massive discrepancy with numbers in the hundreds on the gov website but the paper reporting 30. I’m assuming they’re actually counting something different.

150679 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #1151 of 1807 🔗

And massive difference between date of death and date reported.

150307 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1152 of 1807 🔗

From the last ONS Deaths round-up:

Deaths not involving COVID-19 increased above the five-year average
The number of deaths registered in Week 37 was higher than the five-year average in all English regions except for the North West, which was slightly below (2.9%).

Is this the lockdown collateral deaths starting to kick-in properly?

150340 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, #1153 of 1807 🔗

Probably a mixture of causation, of which that is one. But, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, there is nothing extraordinary (in the historical sense) about current mortality.

150352 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1154 of 1807 🔗

Their deaths will become part of the sunk cost of our great patriotic war on Covid. They will only deepen heroic Hancock’s gritty resolve to beat the Covid and receive the adulation he deserves. In no way are they evidence that the strategy is wrong.

150444 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1155 of 1807 🔗

Actually that figure is misleading. (All cause)
England and wales week 36 – 1443 fewer deaths than five year average. Partly due to Bank Holiday.
Therefore week 37 was a rebalancing of figures. This was 505 higher than than five year average.
Therefore so far this September around 938 deaths fewer than 5 year average.
This take us till week ending 11th Sept

150315 Paul, replying to Paul, 28, #1156 of 1807 🔗

We went for our weekly meal with our friends at our usual up until now normal restaurant last night.
Under orders from the local council things are a bit different now.There are signs in abundance now,’wait here to be seated’,’masks are mandatory for customers unless sitting down’,’no service at the bar’ and the poor staff are now muzzled.
We obviously ignored every sign and walked in as usual and took our tables with no problem,we are very friendly with the owners and staff and get on very well,they are all 100% sceptical of the madness.
Speaking to the owners daughter and asking how she was she replied,’fine,but I wish I could bloody breathe without this damn thing on !’,I told her we were all exempt and that she could self-certify herself as exempt if the mask was causing her distress.She was unaware of exemptions and said the council busybody had not mentioned them.Magically I just happened to have a copy of the law regarding masks and exemptions with me !,she was very interested and kept it to show her parents.She did say they are very worried about some snitch reporting them to the council for even the smallest infringement and as they had lost so much money this year being fined or worse would be a disaster for them.
A bit later on one of the young waitresses said she was feeling quite ill because of wearing a mask and she did look very pale compared to when we arrived.
The youngsters that wait on tables there work very hard and are very polite and friendly,they are a real credit to their generation and it is a bloody disgrace that they are being made ill by the tyrannical mask lunacy.

150337 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Paul, 12, #1157 of 1807 🔗

they are very worried about some snitch reporting them”

This is the kicker – the Stasi-type informers.

150381 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Paul, 2, #1158 of 1807 🔗


150405 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Paul, 2, #1159 of 1807 🔗

How true, our 18 year old granddaughter is one of their number.

150420 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Paul, 5, #1160 of 1807 🔗

“She was unaware of exemptions and said the council busybody had not mentioned them.”

While I’m not surprised that the council blockwart didn’t mention them it always puzzles me when people say they aren’t aware of something because, speaking personally, when somebody tries to impose something on me against my will the first thing I go and do is find a way of not complying.

150812 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to The Filthy Engineer, 1, #1161 of 1807 🔗

Bloody right. People are too supine by far.

150873 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Paul, #1162 of 1807 🔗

I find it hard to understand the apparently widespread ignorance of the fact that there are exemptions to mask wearing. Many of the train & station announcements mention it. For those who never travel on trains exemptions are mentioned elsewhere though not as often as they should be. And if somebody dislikes wearing a mask, don’t they have the initiative to look up what the regulations actually say, and find that there are exemptions? I think I’ve answered the question, many people have limited sources of information and lack initiative.

150317 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #1163 of 1807 🔗

The local rag is running with a headline nearly verbatim ‘ Scots warned patients with flu and covid are twice as likely to die’. There is a picture, a striking arial picture, of two hazmat suited people pushing a patient inside a oxygen/seperation bag on a guerney. The street is cobbled. The shot feels staged.

Project fear is not washing with locals around me. It is being laughed at by mask wearers, who wear because it is the rules-yes exemption. They laugh with incredulity at the farce of the messages they are being told. All are seeing through it to one degree or other. These are not random strangers but people I know to speak with, more distant than friends.

150330 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 3, #1164 of 1807 🔗

Out of interest is this an online news source? The reason I ask I would like to see if the photo is a stock / library photo.

Way back at the start of this US TV used footage which was claimed to be from a New York hospital. The actual footage was from Italy, and not necessarily anything to do with cv19.

150365 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1165 of 1807 🔗

Edinburgh online. Often cited by me. Reason I did not give before is usually no one gives a fig and it is a propaganda outlet. Pop along and see the image.

Looks helluva rattly on that trolley.

150370 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1166 of 1807 🔗

Ps they are not scottish cobbles.

150456 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 2, #1167 of 1807 🔗

Just had a look, appears far more acting theatre than operating theatre to me.

150463 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1168 of 1807 🔗

…Along with the footage showing them clearly ventilating a mannequin!
Amazing Polly had the footage of Italy being passed off as USA on her youtube channel – may still be findable there..

150334 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 5, #1169 of 1807 🔗

The New Emperors have no clothes. But they hypnotize people with Scary Fairy dust that makes them imagine clothes.

150372 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RickH, 10, #1170 of 1807 🔗

Johnson was,is and always will be an opportunist liar and one of the biggest bulls******s I’ve ever seen and heard in my 72 years on this planet; why anybody could have been taken in by him will always be an eternal mystery.

150391 ▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #1171 of 1807 🔗

haha well said i wouldn’t buy a car from Doris let alone a vaccine

150397 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Adam Hiley, 3, #1172 of 1807 🔗

Not even an “Oven ready one”?

150403 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1173 of 1807 🔗

no it would be out of date

150411 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Adam Hiley, 1, #1174 of 1807 🔗

Him or the chicken?

150401 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1175 of 1807 🔗

As has been often said : Imagine the average person. Then note that half the population is even more stupid.

150407 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve_w, replying to RickH, 3, #1176 of 1807 🔗

Imagine the average civil servant. 10% of the population are thicker than this

150437 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kenadams, replying to steve_w, 2, #1177 of 1807 🔗

Speaking as a civil servant, and therefore unfortunately constantly mixing with them and their wokeness and gullibility, I’ll give you an uptick 🙂

150415 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RickH, 2, #1178 of 1807 🔗

Good point, well said.

150457 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1179 of 1807 🔗

I now wonder what would’ve happened if he had been elected PM in 2016 instead of Theresa May…

150661 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1180 of 1807 🔗

Stuff of nightmares – though we might now have someone capable of staying sober while sucking us through this plandemic.

150341 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, 4, #1181 of 1807 🔗

Article discussing this here:


A couple of interesting points:

British government scientists conducted the research during the early months of the pandemic, and the results were troubling: 43% of patients who were hospitalized with both infections died, compared with 26.9% of people who were hospitalized for coronavirus infection alone, the Washington Post reported.

While the study only followed 58 people between the months of January and April, the findings line up with similar research that is underway, the Post reported.

As for a COVID-19 vaccine , some U.S. pediatricians are warning that a coronavirus vaccine for children might not arrive before the fall of 2021. While scientists are racing to develop a vaccine for adults, no one has started the process for children, The New York Times reported.

And? Kids don’t need a fucking vaccine.

150356 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 1, #1182 of 1807 🔗

Local rags are government propaganda via embedded BBC reporters

150361 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, #1183 of 1807 🔗


150331 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 27, #1184 of 1807 🔗

Why don’t the “experts” admit the “bleedin obvious” and except that whatever countries do all over the world makes no difference whatsoever to the spread of the virus and let us live our lives in peace.
Let the “Collaborators”, “Maskateers” and sad gits who want to lock themselves away till the end of time DO SO and leave the dwindling number of us normal people live and die in peace and on our own terms and take our own acceptable risks with how we lead our lives.

150358 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1185 of 1807 🔗

Being an expert is no guarantee of a resistance to admitting you were wrong

150393 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Julian, 2, #1186 of 1807 🔗


150398 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 2, #1187 of 1807 🔗

Actually it’s an essential part of being ‘expert’.

150348 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1188 of 1807 🔗

As mentioned on LS months ago trials are being held in cinemas. A covidcrazy measure.

“Inside the Odeon Cinema as it prepares to host virtual high court jury trials
In normal times, the Odeon cinema complex in Fort ­Kinnaird on the outskirts of Edinburgh attracts audiences seeking a few hours of escapism, courtesy of Hollywood and beyond.”

150399 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Basics, 1, #1189 of 1807 🔗

I thought it was in Fort Kinnell…

150818 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1190 of 1807 🔗

I see what you did there 😁

150351 South West Skeptic, replying to South West Skeptic, 28, #1191 of 1807 🔗

My first trip to the pub since this week’s changes (just wanted a quick drink), what a palaver!

Do you have a mask? What to walk 2 metres? No, I haven’t.

You can’t stand at the bar. OK, where shall I go? Can I sit there? Yes but we need to disinfect it first. OK, shall I just stand somewhere in the middle of the room?

We need your details for track and trace, can you pop over here? What, by the bar? OK then, are you sure? You just said I couldn’t stand by the bar. What would you like? A pint please. Sigh…… 🙂

Monty Python would have been proud!

150354 ▶▶ Geraint, replying to South West Skeptic, 9, #1192 of 1807 🔗

Funny,… if it wasn’t so utterly tragic…..

150364 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to South West Skeptic, 3, #1193 of 1807 🔗

I hope the pint was decent after all that farting about.

150785 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to South West Skeptic, 1, #1194 of 1807 🔗

Went to the Pub next door for the first time since they opened, to celebrate quitting my job today over T&T. The staff member was very nice, but puzzled when instead of a phone number I said: write down “next door”.

150355 Colin Smith, replying to Colin Smith, #1195 of 1807 🔗

Do you mean pole position? Or is that supposed to be a political pun?

150446 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Colin Smith, #1196 of 1807 🔗

Political pun I suspect..

150359 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1197 of 1807 🔗

Herd immunity bad writes devi globalist.

“Covid-19: ‘Herd immunity’ strategy is flawed until we have a coronavirus vaccine – Professor Devi Sridhar
Without a vaccine, building up population-level immunity to the Covid-19 coronavirus could take a year or more and catching the virus does not necessarily provide lasting protection, writes Professor Devi Sridhar.”

150373 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 5, #1198 of 1807 🔗

“Could take a year or more” – OK, so how long will the vaccine take?

Vaccines often don’t provide long lasting protection either.

150377 ▶▶▶ jb12, replying to Julian, 6, #1199 of 1807 🔗

They do provide plenty of £ though, especially if they become an annual fixture.

150385 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to jb12, 13, #1200 of 1807 🔗

Indeed. Also I am not sure herd immunity is a “strategy” – just a natural consequence. What is “flawed” is wrecking society and the economy and public health, thinking you can stop a virus that is already endemic.

150386 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 9, #1201 of 1807 🔗

And locking down healthy people. Utter lunacy.

150394 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Julian, 8, #1202 of 1807 🔗

Imagine how much support we could have given the vulnerable if we had spent just 1% of the Covid budget on them and let everything else carry on as normal…

150390 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #1203 of 1807 🔗

The ‘or more’ is the case. I wouldn’t touch one that hasn’t been trialled for less than two years in proper double-blind RCTs.

150805 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 1, #1204 of 1807 🔗

Have they started doing double-blind trials on vaccines then, Rick ? First time for everything …

150646 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1205 of 1807 🔗

That’s the point! Regular boosters needed. Kerrrrrching!

150374 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Basics, 4, #1206 of 1807 🔗

‘Professor’ to give it that air of authority, without mentioning that her specialism is ‘public health’.

150392 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to jb12, 4, #1207 of 1807 🔗

Public health experts seem to be a contradiction

150388 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 5, #1208 of 1807 🔗

catching the virus does not necessarily provide lasting protection,”

… and vaccination does?

Only for the pharmaceutical beasts if you keep the prescription coming.

150400 ▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to RickH, 7, #1209 of 1807 🔗

Of course catching the virus doesn’t give lasting protection. It won’t stop me from being hit by a bus for a start. Are these people aware that life has a 100% mortality rate?

150395 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 1, #1210 of 1807 🔗

And what if we never get a vaccine?

150413 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to DRW, 1, #1211 of 1807 🔗

no it will be over before there is a vaccine

150464 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Adam Hiley, 3, #1212 of 1807 🔗

It’s whether they’ll let it be though, mass PCR testing is the gift that keeps on giving.

150418 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Basics, 1, #1213 of 1807 🔗

Without a vaccine and doubling of cases every 7 days…oh dear God!

150648 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #1214 of 1807 🔗

Surely the more the cases double, the less they can ignore the herd immunity argument?

150429 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, 2, #1215 of 1807 🔗

I’ll counter that with:-

“At least six studies have reported T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2 in 20% to 50% of people with no known exposure to the virus”

. https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

150639 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kevin 2, 1, #1216 of 1807 🔗

Yeah Kevin it’ds becoming clear other coronaviruses have helped prime our immune systems – t cell response long lasting and effective. Funny strange odd devi isnt looking fir tge fastest sound way out but is looking to artificial junk rushed through at warp speed to the profit of men.

No thanks.

150432 ▶▶ Kevin 2, replying to Basics, 3, #1217 of 1807 🔗

Arch-vaxxer. She can go first.

150439 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Basics, 5, #1218 of 1807 🔗

Devi Sridhar’s first degree is in biology. Then she did a dissertation on malnutrition in India. I struggle to see anything in her CV that qualifies her to advise anyone about vaccines or to advise a government about how to respond to a respiratory disease. Another adviser to the Scottish government, a certain Linda Bauld, Professor of Public Health at the University of Edinburgh, has a first degree in social sciences of all things. A third member of the crack team, Jason Leitch, is a dentist. The Scottish people are ill-served by the medically and scientifically illiterate bunch who have the ear of the First Minister.

150451 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jane in France, 4, #1219 of 1807 🔗

The dentist might come in useful as people develop mask mouth…

150652 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jane in France, #1220 of 1807 🔗

A dentist should at least have some basic idea about pathogen spread and immunity.

150758 ▶▶▶ shorthand, replying to Jane in France, 1, #1221 of 1807 🔗

I listened to Devi S interviewed on Unherd, she came across as a giggling student, facebook page full of puppies in boots kind of person. I’ve worked with a lot of Engineering Graduates like her in my industry, gobby, over confident and lacking experience but in big jobs with decisions to be made.
Linda Bauld, when you see her face on you can see into her skull through her nostrils.
And Jason Leitch….Fking Jason fking Leitch watching him tell me what to do makes me realize why Elvis shot so many TV’s….

150448 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #1222 of 1807 🔗

Love to see her debate Giesecke!

150461 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 3, #1223 of 1807 🔗

This sort of argument is basically claiming that immunity is only useful if enough people have it.

The whole purpose of taking any action is to control the rate of transmission. The more people with immunity the less need there is for artificial measures such as social distancing.

Those who advocate for total suppression of the virus are effectively advocating for 100% artificial control measures.

150645 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1224 of 1807 🔗

So transparent!

150362 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 13, #1225 of 1807 🔗

Thought builders were tough…:-) but no. Went into my local builder’s merchants – full of large chaps in face panties. Said to man behind counter that I was ‘exempt’ when asked about my lack of such attire… I shit you not, he leapt back about three feet as if I had cattle-prodded him, twaddling something about ‘risking him’ (not that I caught it all, from behind his muzzle) Bizarre…. but a sign of the crazy times

150422 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Geraint, 3, #1226 of 1807 🔗

It’s a real sign of what they’ve done to people.

150600 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Geraint, 1, #1227 of 1807 🔗

Like teachers…. Those that can build.. Those that can’t stand behind a counter at the builder’s merchants

150367 Kev, replying to Kev, 10, #1228 of 1807 🔗

Sadiq Khan calls for ban on household visits in London.

These bastards are just trying to out stupid each other!

Glad I don’t live in London, and sorry for anyone on here who does, especially if you didn’t vote for the stupid fascist.

150375 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Kev, 6, #1229 of 1807 🔗

He, like Hancock, has seemed far too keen on this nonsense – he’s enjoying the power and the attention

150382 ▶▶▶ Adam Hiley, replying to Julian, 4, #1230 of 1807 🔗

Hancock is a idiot i cannot stand the sight of Him People are waking up

150384 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #1231 of 1807 🔗

Yes – the people who have ‘risen without trace’ seem to be in a large majority these days.

150642 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1232 of 1807 🔗


150389 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Kev, 4, #1233 of 1807 🔗

Not right or left, just brain dead like most of our poor country who continue to believe in this increasingly stupid and dangerous way we are being governed.

150902 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Kev, #1234 of 1807 🔗

He’s trying to cover his arse for the incompetent way he’s managed London

150369 Adam Hiley, 4, #1235 of 1807 🔗

this awful and turdblossom Government’s antics have convinced Me more than ever that I will fight the Corrupt LibLabConSNP and defend My Civil Liberties to My last breath i am a proud supporter and Member of the SDP party please look at it’s policies https://www.newchartistmovement.org.uk

150383 FenTyger, replying to FenTyger, 6, #1236 of 1807 🔗

Due to a power outage at National Records of Scotland we have not been able to update the deaths figures for Scotland.
Today’s deaths figure does not include Scotland.

Useless amateurs, IT system with no power backup?

150426 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to FenTyger, 2, #1237 of 1807 🔗

They have an IT system on site? A dashboard at that? I have zero confidence in any of these idiots

150584 ▶▶ mjr, replying to FenTyger, 2, #1238 of 1807 🔗

did the wind stop blowing?

150641 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #1239 of 1807 🔗

It’s been blowing a gale here in Yorkshire today. Maybe the turbines blew away?

150387 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #1240 of 1807 🔗

Hi all

I have asked this before but things change quickly at the moment!

What success, if any, have you had at changing people’s minds? If you have turned someone, how “non-sceptical” were they before?

What fact, facts, process worked do you think?

Have you noticed if it’s easier or more difficult at the moment?


150414 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #1241 of 1807 🔗

Got a few who had started questioning and knew things did not add up to turn full-on sceptic.

Had some who didn’t care one way or the other turn sceptic.

Had some believers but only by a little bit start looking into things themselves once I chatted to them and they turned sceptics.

The totally brainwashed, brain dead believers will not turn as it’s ingrained into their psyche. These people if the Government said tomorrow it was all hoax they would not change their minds. They are like old-time religious zealots or the modern day green activist, same mindset. Truth does not enter into the equation.

I found being able to give facts, figures, quotes, where to find info and so on goes a long way to showing them where to go – unfortunately you cannot change someone’s mind for them but only show them the way to go for info and let them change it for themselves.

150424 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Awkward Git, #1242 of 1807 🔗

Thanks. Which facts worked best do you think?

150428 ▶▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #1243 of 1807 🔗

The ONS website reported Covid was the 24th most common cause of death in England in August. Ask them what they think the first is and they’ll say Covid. That’s a starter to make them think about the hysteria….hopefully.

150443 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Albie, 5, #1244 of 1807 🔗

Yes, and ask how many healthy under 60s have died from Covid… They will likely give a figure in the thousands and to find out how few it actually is will be something of an eye-opener…

150455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 2, #1245 of 1807 🔗

Happened to me today, the 2 of them couldn’t believe it was only 300.

150447 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #1246 of 1807 🔗

ONS website, inproprtion2 as it has easy to understand graphs, knowing when the legislation was introduced and how iffy it all is, the HCID statement, Whitty’s statement on 21 July 2020 in the committee hearing, how intelligent the virus is showing the measures are nonsensical, knowing that all but 4 pieces of legislation re S.I.s and not Acts of Parliament, the details of the PCR test and it’s failings, the investor’s quote about it being not for diagnosis, the false positive rate and our government going to 45 cycles emanating more and more positives regardless, comorbidities and age of death, knowing the survival rates, knowing roughly how many people in each age group have actually died, tend difference between from and with covid-19, the changes in filling in death certificates, the policy of moving infected patients to care homes and locking them in then denying treatment.

Depends on who I am talking to, their level of scepticism, how technical they want the conversation and so on.

One person at time.

150585 ▶▶▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1247 of 1807 🔗

One person at a time is exactly the right method. It may not seem much but they will then question and discuss it with others who are like them and so on and so on.

150626 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1248 of 1807 🔗

… our government going to 45 cycles …

When??? Do you have a link for that please.

150624 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1249 of 1807 🔗

I think you have to target the approach to the listener. Some repond to covid stats and figures, some to the totalitarianism angle, some respond to questioning their own personal experience.

150423 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #1250 of 1807 🔗

As I’ve noted before – I don’t think it’s a one-off process.

Pick the most irrefutable hard facts – like the absolutely unexceptional overall level of mortality from this virus, put into historical context. The propaganda has clearly imprinted brains with massive hyperbole – aim to wind the fear down by simple numbers.

Steer away from what are seen as ‘conspiracy’ theories, and riding other hobby-horses.(Although I’ve been using the Vallance share-option issue).


… and, yes, it’s those who are already doubtful who are amenable to honesty.

Be prepared to leavre it for a while and back off – but don’t back down.

Drip… drip … drip

150427 ▶▶ steve_w, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #1251 of 1807 🔗

I have turned a number and used whatever would work in their circumstances

1 – scientist friend directed to science, graphs etc
2 – woke friend directed to sunetra gupta interviews (and implied they listen to ferguson over sunetra due to racism) and WHO stuff about lockdown killing black kids to save old white folk
3 – old friends implied they were being taken for mugs (nobody likes to look a twat) – tied it in with their annoyance of the predictions of the brexit vote giving us the armageddon that never was
4 – scientist wife. all the unherd interviews with sceptic scientists – sunetra again

150433 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #1252 of 1807 🔗

Just off the phone to my brother who has had a run in with my younger brother. We’ll, the younger is awaiting a CV-19 test results as there was an outbreak of 1 among the 50 strong team at the pub he works in. They had words over something and the younger spat in his face.

Now, I know that’s a strange way to start to answer your question but the older was worried now if the younger was positive. I took it upon myself to explain to him tests are flawed, if he or anyone in his family had a positive result, as they were all fit and healthy there’d by nothing to worry about. That’d they’d not even have symptoms most likely and to go about his business regardless of whatever any panic attack minded people may say.

I promised to send him the latest numbers on things later. He was much calmer.

Just an anecdote to say that facts matter. At least to those that can process risk. For others, I don’t know. They are brainwashed to an extent so it will need to be more in their face to come round.

150438 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1253 of 1807 🔗

This one minute video works quite well: https://twitter.com/Counterpropag20/status/1307763294053306370

German (with English subtitles) strategy of their interior ministry about how to terrorise their population..

150635 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1254 of 1807 🔗

Wow, German Nudge Unit!

150441 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #1255 of 1807 🔗

Colleague of mine was (is?) a die-hard Remainer a year ago, made his views very clear to everyone in the office, in particular that he thought Boris was a liar and not to be trusted etc. (with hindsight perhaps he was right about that).

Now, he has fully bought into all the Government’s propaganda and is doggedly sticking to it, regardless of any counter-points I try to make. He even disputed that herd immunity was a widly accepted scientific theory before the world went nuts.

Anyway, there’s no turning some people. Choose your battles wisely.

150475 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #1256 of 1807 🔗

Awkward Git has pointed up good sources of accurate information. I’d add the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine as a go-to for readily updated accurate stuff to direct people to, and the Swiss Doctor site as a focus for a collation of other information.

150793 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to RickH, #1257 of 1807 🔗

Do you mean the Swiss Policy Research website?

150480 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #1258 of 1807 🔗

See if you can get them to watch the Ivor Cummins YouTube video. Just say it puts things into a better perspective than the TV and Media have so far. Also mention it’s had over 1.3M views.

150582 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to NonCompliant, #1259 of 1807 🔗

He has also done a shorter one, for people who cannot cope with the 37 minute version..

150638 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1260 of 1807 🔗

Link would be helpful if possible please.

150621 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #1261 of 1807 🔗

Chatted with a newly-qualified policewoman friend who admitted she didn’t know much about what was going on because she didn’t have time to read about them.

I talked to her about how the police are supposed to work on behalf of the public and that it wouldn’t do to alienate us because civil unrest was brewing and she didn’t want to find herself in the middle.
I also told her about government by SI and the fact that the Cabinet have effectively executed a coup.

She left looking very worried …..

150797 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Cheezilla, #1262 of 1807 🔗

Do they have a thing like remonstration in England?
Querdenken people always use it, in Germany civil servants have a right, or even a duty, to remonstrate orders which are against their duty of protecting citizens, teachers to protect children etc.
East German Soldiers who were in court for shooting people trying to climb the wall, claiming “I was just following orders” were convicted as they had a duty to remonstrate.

150396 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 15, #1263 of 1807 🔗

Small amount of good(?) news.
Trip to local ASDA today.
No mask issue at all. Some masked staff hovering by the front doing nothing. Only “new” thing is re-introduction of one way flow through the doors. Presumably viruses only attack from one side.

150442 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Polemon2, #1264 of 1807 🔗

Presumably they have to be seen to do something.

150460 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Polemon2, 9, #1265 of 1807 🔗

Just back from a trip to a small Sainsbury’s Local. No one on the door, I walked in maskless, picked up a basket and ignored the hand satanising station. I was in the shop for no more than 10 minutes and no one reacted to my maskless state in any way, although that may be in part becasue I was facing a shelf for most of the time. When I left after using the self scan (an invention of the devil) a young woman in the kiosk queue did a sort of double take. She did not seem at all bothered or hostile, it was almost as though she was surprised by her realisation that I had a face!

150857 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Strange Days, #1266 of 1807 🔗

I actually like the self scanner. If I have a surplus of small change I can dump it all in whereas I might be less keen to give it to an assistant.

150476 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Polemon2, 6, #1267 of 1807 🔗

They have goons at my nearest Morrison’s but so far they haven’t pulled me up. I just waltz in and out with no hassle, just needs people to have a bit of courage.

150402 Paul, replying to Paul, 15, #1268 of 1807 🔗

I’ve just received a vomit-inducing email from BP to say how much they care about me,here’s a small sample,

As Covid-19 continues to be part of our new normal, we just wanted to reassure you that your local site is still open (opening times may vary please check with the site directly) to ensure you can refuel and stock up on all those essentials even if you are affected by a local lockdown.

In light of the new government guidelines please be assured we take safety very seriously.

The safety of our staff and customers remains our core value. Throughout the pandemic we have put processes in place to make sure that customers can visit our sites with confidence. These include more regular and thorough cleaning processes,
installed protective screens at our tills, door controls in selected sites to
limit the number of customers that can safety shop in our stores. We also
have hand protection to reduce contact points when filling up and paying.
Customers also have the option to pay at pump via our BPme app. We
will continue to monitor government guidance, and adopt best practice to keep

our staff and customers safe.

In line with new government regulations, we kindly request that all of our customers in both England and Scotland wear a face covering when visiting our stores. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

We have teamed up with GripHero to provide customers with the hand protection they need whilst filling up. GripHero provides drivers with best practice anti-static protection that uses:

  • 55% less plastic consumption
  • 70% less plastic footprint
  • 75% less carbon footprint

In the UK, an average fuel nozzle can be handled by over 200 people each week , each gripping it solidly for up to 3 minutes.

So if you fill up weekly, it’s like giving a long hand shake to 200 people who haven’t washed their hands.

With the global spread of Coronavirus, we are doing all we can to prevent customers spreading and contracting the virus .

All I can say in reply is,FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course there is no mention whatsoever about face mask exemptions,as usual.

150410 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Paul, 3, #1269 of 1807 🔗

Same shit from Argos CEO today via email.

150412 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Paul, 7, #1270 of 1807 🔗

We’re certainly seeing a second wave of corporate virtue raving.

150436 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 11, #1271 of 1807 🔗

Am in agreement with your response Paul.

Blimey, I’ve been using petrol pumps for, let’s see, nearly 40 years. How the hell am I still here to type this …

150440 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 1, #1272 of 1807 🔗

In any case, disposable gloves have available for years.

150505 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1273 of 1807 🔗

Don’t bother, like to live life on the edge!

150536 ▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to kh1485, 2, #1274 of 1807 🔗

In fairness to the new normal (got to take every positive, they’re rare these days!) I am a fan of gloves because otherwise you can unsuspectingly grab a pump with some residual petrol on which then leaves your hands stinking until you can thoroughly scrub it off multiple times. But I am also big fan of living life on the so called edge!

150543 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #1275 of 1807 🔗

I found the worst thing as a lorry driver when filling up using the large diameter/high flow rate HGV pumps was when the previous user hadn’t emptied the nozzle and I ended up with a litre or so of diesel all over my boots and trousers and then having to drive a couple of hundred miles stinking of it !.

150608 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, #1276 of 1807 🔗

Yuk! The smell of diesel makes me feel ill!

150453 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 3, #1277 of 1807 🔗

Yes,we’re really finding out how many different dangerous things we have been doing for decades,thank god covid came along and exposed the truth to us !.

I usually fill up at the local BP because it is the only station in our town not to have gone covid crazy,looks like that may have succumbed now too,my little covid – madness free world has been squeezed to almost nothing now this week.

150504 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 4, #1278 of 1807 🔗

Indeed. I feel so much safer now that I have Matt Tosspot overseeing everything I do!

Thankfully the Tesco station here has a ‘pay at the pump’ option so I don’t have to bother with any of that crap.

150474 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to kh1485, 25, #1279 of 1807 🔗

Old but relevant but we should all be dead:

Things We Did as Kids (for the older bunch)
First, we survived being born to mothers who took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn’t get tested for diabetes.

Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-based paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking.

As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster seats, seat belts or air bags.

We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle.
We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank fizzy drinks made with sugar, but we weren’t overweight because, WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo’s, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 150 channels, no video movies or DVD’s, no surround-sound or CD’s, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms…….WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.

We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend’s house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them!


No we are told to hide away from something that even in the unlikely event of catching it, we are 99%+ likely to survive!!

150489 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 10, #1280 of 1807 🔗

Sat here smiling at what you have written. Those were the days! And remember, if you were eating and got stuff round your mouth, your mum would lick a hanky and wipe you clean to the groans of “arrrggghh, Muuuum …” Or was that just mine! No such thing as those bloody awful wipes then and no ruddy allergies either.

150514 ▶▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to kh1485, 1, #1281 of 1807 🔗

Oh yesssss! 🙂

150739 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 2, #1282 of 1807 🔗

Hanky ? You were lucky. 🙂 Our mum always used the dishcloth.

150819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, #1283 of 1807 🔗


150535 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Sarigan, 9, #1284 of 1807 🔗

Brilliant description of my childhood in the 1970s Offlands !,I’ll add falling in ditches and nettles,rolling around in the dirt playing the wrestling we had just watched on TV and just being trusted to use the common sense your parents and the school had taught you.

150537 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 4, #1285 of 1807 🔗

And, we survived Clackers!

150587 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ dorset dumpling, replying to kh1485, 2, #1286 of 1807 🔗

They were vicious weren’t they?!!! Also played conkers and did roller skating without a helmet or knee pads.

150681 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to dorset dumpling, 1, #1287 of 1807 🔗

Oh yes. Did some real damage to your knuckles. They wouldn’t allow them now though, well, not without a full risk-assessment!

Summer holidays not complete without a trip to A&E to be stitched/patched up!

150611 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 3, #1288 of 1807 🔗

and conkers.

150658 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #1289 of 1807 🔗

No – primary schools can’t all be wrong. Nobody survives conkers. I’m just remembering wrong.

150577 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Paul, 4, #1290 of 1807 🔗

I remember going round to a friend’s house, starting off by mixing up some random chemicals from his chemistry set to make ‘weed killer’ and then going round tipping it on his mum’s plants to see if it worked, and the next game was standing on either side of a big hole dug in his garden and throwing stones at each other to see who could knock the other one into the hole first. Bliss.

150850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to matt, #1291 of 1807 🔗

I made fireworks from my chemistry set, or sometimes used some of my dad’s sodium chlorate weedkiller. The fireworks usually just fizzed and crackled rather than banging.

150581 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1292 of 1807 🔗

I would add to that, that the rate of childhood cancer was far lower than it appears to be now..
Autism and ADHD were also virtually unheard of..

150654 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sarigan, #1293 of 1807 🔗

Plus leaded petrol, asbestos brake dust and everybody smoking all the time!

I think somebody did work out that Covid basically made your risk equal to what it was anyway on a normal day in 1971. That was quite early on and was almost certainly an overestimate. It was probably equivalent to 1995.

150811 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to guy153, 3, #1294 of 1807 🔗

Add to that, when in the country/woods/other peoples back gardens- grazing on unwashed, unchecked, unplastic wrapped brambles, apples, pears, raspberries and strawberries.
They all tested so much better than the sanitised crap you often get now.

150792 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1295 of 1807 🔗

Yep, that was my childhood and it was cracking.

150404 Achilles, 9, #1296 of 1807 🔗

Have to admit when Boris said he was putting his arms around us I just thought #MeToo.

150408 Adam Hiley, replying to Adam Hiley, 9, #1297 of 1807 🔗

Johnson and Hancock have violated the Ministerial code it should disqulify them from office

150452 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Adam Hiley, 2, #1298 of 1807 🔗

But the parliamentary Standards Commissioner not interested, I tried.

150434 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1300 of 1807 🔗

Yes. Seen that. Excellent. She is the real deal.

If course here in Ireland she is painted as a right wing ant vax facist.

150431 Steve Hayes, 4, #1301 of 1807 🔗

This open letter from Belgium doctors ought to be compulsory reading for all the muppets in parliament:


150445 Kevin 2, replying to Kevin 2, 8, #1302 of 1807 🔗

“Protect the elderly & high-risk groups. Children & young adults should be able to live life normally.. These general lockdowns of closing schools, restaurants and beaches actually have a detrimental effect on public health.”

Harvard Professor Martin Kulldorff.


150470 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kevin 2, 2, #1303 of 1807 🔗

As also said by Giesecke to the Irish Covid committee the other day..

150449 Jeremy Enns, replying to Jeremy Enns, 18, #1304 of 1807 🔗

I was glad to see the video from Principal of University of Glasgow Anton Muscat Elli, in which he explains to students that any prior infractions (attempts to live normally) mean they are already yellow-carded, and that any future attempts to live normally will lead to a complete lack of due process (“you will be suspended”). Nice touch too to mention that the police are being involved.

This is great evidence for submission at Nuremberg 2.0. I’m waiting for that day and demand that absolutely no-one in positions of power gets the kid-glove treatment.

150471 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Jeremy Enns, 15, #1305 of 1807 🔗

I’d have just told my kids to stuff Uni, come home, i’ll help pay the fees for them.

150605 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NonCompliant, 2, #1306 of 1807 🔗

Yes. I’d want mine out of there pronto!

150568 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Jeremy Enns, 1, #1307 of 1807 🔗

Does anyone know if a suspension of expulsion will lead to a refund of fees? (I think I can guess the answer, but I thought I would make sure.)

150450 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 18, #1308 of 1807 🔗

London mayor Sadiq Khan has called on Boris Johnson to ban household mixing for London’s 9 million residents, warning that a 43% fall in testing in the capital risks masking the severity of the virus’s spread.

Perverse or what?

150458 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Tenchy, 16, #1309 of 1807 🔗

He just sent out this missive to London residents:

London is at a very worrying tipping point right now. We’re seeing a sharp rise in 111 calls, hospital admissions, and patients in ICU.

The near collapse of test and trace and the resurgence of the virus means new measures to slow its spread were absolutely necessary.

Testing capacity was diverted away from London in the last two weeks to other national hot spots and weekly testing numbers are now down 43 per cent in the capital since mid-August.

The lack of testing capacity is totally unacceptable and it is why London has been added to the Government’s coronavirus watchlist as an area of concern. Ministers simply have to get a grip. It’s vital that testing capacity is increased immediately in London and focused in the areas it is needed most. Any delay will mean letting the city down and will cost lives.

Worst mayor ever & bedwetter of the week.

150462 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to zacaway, 3, #1310 of 1807 🔗

So “tipping point” is the latest phrase of doom is it.
Has anyone fact checked these claims?

150503 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to DRW, 1, #1311 of 1807 🔗

Not sure where to get that data. The dashboard doesn’t break down the figures per region:

Possibly need to dig around on ONS to find details.

150603 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to zacaway, #1312 of 1807 🔗

Or just make them up as you go along.

150530 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to DRW, 2, #1313 of 1807 🔗

It’s the new cliff edge…

150667 ▶▶▶▶ nocheesegromit, replying to DRW, 1, #1314 of 1807 🔗

I prefer The Chase myself

150693 ▶▶▶▶ Kate, replying to DRW, 1, #1315 of 1807 🔗

It is all lies.

150465 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to zacaway, 6, #1316 of 1807 🔗

Resurgence of the virus? Where? Do you have data, Saddy you utter Khant?

150492 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1317 of 1807 🔗

Exactly, hasn’t even bothered to provide numbers (how many admissions exactly?), let alone sources.

Mostly just political posturing, which is all he ever seems to do.

150556 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to zacaway, 7, #1318 of 1807 🔗

Has anybody thought to remind him that he almost certainly wouldn’t be mayor anymore if it weren’t for the postponement of the election from May and that terrorizing the city is probably not the best way of securing reelection next year?

150575 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 2, #1319 of 1807 🔗

Is anyone actively petitioning for elections to be held sooner than next year? If the USA can hold a presidential election during a p(l)andemic, why can we not have council and mayoral elections?

150576 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to matt, 1, #1320 of 1807 🔗

Sadly, he probably will still be mayor, even after whenever they decide to have another election. Polls still put him way ahead:

People seem to love him for reasons I can’t understand.

150596 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to zacaway, 1, #1321 of 1807 🔗

for reasons I can’t understand’ Ethnicity?

150602 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to zacaway, #1322 of 1807 🔗

…. area of concern due to LACK of testing?!

Got to give them points for thinking of everything!

150565 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1323 of 1807 🔗

So if cases rise, we panic; if cases fall, this is just a distortion of reality, and we must still panic? This sort of thing being acceptable is why I have no faith in the common person to ever stop watching TV long enough to see what is going on.

150594 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to jb12, 1, #1324 of 1807 🔗

Reality is manipulated to fit beliefs/agendas

150590 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1325 of 1807 🔗

I just had a look: Yom Kippur is on Monday. When you lock yourself in the Synagogue for either most or all of the day. And fast!

Sure that’s going to go down great

150466 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 43, #1326 of 1807 🔗

Because of mandatory T&T in hospitality I have just resigned my job of, what would have been 5 years next week, in a coffee shop.

I have been struggling with all the extra measures brought in, developed breathing difficulties by inhaling sanitiser all the time, and anxiety seeing all the covered up faces.
Luckily I am single and have some savings.

150468 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Silke David, 9, #1327 of 1807 🔗

Sorry to hear that..

150469 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Silke David, 10, #1328 of 1807 🔗

Good for you and good luck for when you look for alternative work.

150485 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Silke David, 11, #1329 of 1807 🔗

So sorry to hear your news. In no sane world should you have to rely on savings to make ends meet in current circumstances. The decimation of our livelihoods and society brings me to tears.

150499 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Silke David, 3, #1330 of 1807 🔗

Sorry that you have had to give your job, though I can understand why.

150559 ▶▶ jb12, replying to Silke David, 4, #1331 of 1807 🔗

Sorry to hear that, but at least you have acted in line with your principles and not through fear or ignorance. That is to be commended because not many would!

150613 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Silke David, 5, #1332 of 1807 🔗

Still not good though. Because after all, why should YOU have to be the one to go? This turns more and more dystopian all the time.

150723 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Silke David, 2, #1333 of 1807 🔗

Sorry to hear that. I hope you find something soon.

150764 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Silke David, 2, #1334 of 1807 🔗

Good for you for sticking up for yourself – and everyone else.

150919 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Silke David, 1, #1335 of 1807 🔗

Very sorry to hear this. Its criminal what they’re doing to us.

150472 Jeremy Enns, replying to Jeremy Enns, 26, #1336 of 1807 🔗

Hello! Writing from Moscow. We had almost 3 months lockdown earlier this year. It was very strict in form – no daily exercise or straying from home allowed. QR codes required for any kind of travel. It was hard, living as I do in a 35 sq mtr space. Enforcement, however, wasn’t so strict and one could walk, illegally. It was very unpleasant constantly trying to avoid the police and live in constant fear of an arbitrary $80 fine just for getting some fresh air.

I was buoyed last week, by comments from the authorities that a second lockdown is not needed here. They actually used logic referring to the original claimed causes of pervious lockdown – then we were dealing with an unknown disease and uncertain medical capacity, whereas now the nature of the virus is known, medical capacity has been increased, and everything is under control. This is what they said.

Like clockwork, all the media went into a panic yesterday about the rapidly deteriorating situation and that if things get worse, further lockdowns may be necessary. Already, Moscow has advised the elderly to stay home and big companies to go back to distance working arrangements as of next week.

Today has been a hard day and I’m feeling slightly depressed and worried about the prospect of a new lockdown. Don’t know where else to talk about this, so I’m writing this down here.

The only positive thing to mention about today is I went to the shop in my brand new Carl Vernon two-sheep distancing t-shirt that came in yesterday’s mail. Went in to the shop mask free as usual and at the cashier, she told me to put on a mask (ominous as that hasn’t happened since March). Well, I put on the damn mask under the nose, and no further issues. But I felt better because of my sheep distancing t-shirt being proudly displayed.

150516 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Jeremy Enns, #1337 of 1807 🔗

My cousin tells me from St.Petersburg that 2 city hospitals are again preparing for Covid patients.
But no scare mongering on media.
But St.Petersburg didn’t really have a lockdown in March-April.

150889 ▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Jeremy Enns, 2, #1338 of 1807 🔗

So sorry about what you are having to endure. I would have gone crazy if I’d not been able to go for a walk.

150947 ▶▶▶ Jeremy Enns, replying to Cheshirecatslave, 1, #1339 of 1807 🔗

Thank you for your commiserance. I’ve grown up since a young boy spending much time in the open air. I’m not cut out for lockdown. I just want to believe all the lies because it would make my life so much easier. I can’t. My job is in the city, client-based. I can bring some of them online, but I’ll lose lots of work too. I’m looking at my options for relocating to the countryside, but it is extremely difficult when you can’t even plan 2 months out into the future.

150477 Cheezilla, 1, #1340 of 1807 🔗
150478 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 22, #1341 of 1807 🔗



“Incredible stuff. There’s essentially an open revolt in Marseille against the complete closure of bars and restaurants imposed by the French central government. The municipal authorities announced that the municipal police wouldn’t enforce the closur e”

150512 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to swedenborg, 10, #1342 of 1807 🔗

Sacré bleu!
Vive la résistance!

150782 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Now More Than Ever, 1, #1343 of 1807 🔗

Vive la revolution too.

150570 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1344 of 1807 🔗

Oh that the UK police were on the side of the people and not the establishment…. we can only dream..
I’m guessing common purpose has not reached France?

150760 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1345 of 1807 🔗

I mean…. This Situation is ripe for French civil disobedience. They absolutely thrive on this shit.

150479 Nsklent, replying to Nsklent, 16, #1346 of 1807 🔗

Watched the Crucible last night about the witch hunt in Salem 1600s. Well, we have advanced little in the propaganda and hysteria – replace witchcraft with Covid and basically the response was no different. One brave sceptic stands up in a trial and walks out calling them fools, girls fainting in groups in hysteria, pointy finger accusations, all believed without challenge, the reverend and his wife questioned and scorned for their denial of witches (covid), off to gaol. Too many similarities in the group think response, no advancement in hysteria 400 years later, replace witchcraft with Covid, masks with a talisman and we are back in the 17th century, trial by ordeal less painful with the PCR test.

150500 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Nsklent, 2, #1347 of 1807 🔗

And that was supposed to be a metaphor for McCarthy-ism. Plus ca change. plus c’est la meme chose

150567 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bella, 4, #1348 of 1807 🔗

The irony about McCarthyism was that he was right: there were communists at high levels of the government. And that appears to be the case today with some Democrats in the US.

150718 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to mhcp, 2, #1349 of 1807 🔗

Correct. Funny that we went to war in 1939 to save Poland from invasion by a totalitarian regime only to see it handed over to Stalin at the end of the war. Roosevelt’s Secretary of State is said to have been a Soviet agent.

150481 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1350 of 1807 🔗


 This is 2 hour long video with contributions from Levitt,Bhattacharya,Kulldorf about C-19 pandemic

150966 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to swedenborg, #1351 of 1807 🔗

Watch out for dodgy volume levels but this is well worth a watch. Thanks for sharing!

150484 Awkward Git, 29, #1352 of 1807 🔗

Just sent to the ICC:


What do I need to do, what evidence do I need to provide to be able to lodge a complaint against certain members of the UK Government and otehr individuals who advise them for crimes against humanity with youselves so that an investigation can be started?

The official policy of sending covid-19 infected patients from hospitals to care homes then locking them in for months without visitors, putting do not resuscitate or do not perform cardio-pulmonary resuscitation orders on their notes without permission, refusing them medical treatment, refusing them hospital treatment and basically hurrying along their demise to maximise the numbers of dead to frighten the population is being officially repeated again and surely this treatment constitutes crimes against humanity under the following sections:

  • Extermination
  • Imprisonment
  • Torture
  • Persecution against an identifiable group
  • Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health

I look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,

Will let you know if I ever receive an answer back.

150486 NickR, replying to NickR, 5, #1353 of 1807 🔗

This chart shows the rate of change for the UK of:

  1. Total number of tests conducted
  2. Total number of positive tests.
  3. Total number of deaths.
  4. I’ve also added a line that shows the rate of change for doubling every 8 days.

What does it tell us? Well, the increase in testing isn’t going to get us to the moon very quickly. Positive tests are increasing modestly, but then they’re concentrating on care homes & now discouraging the general public. Deaths are increasing but whether these people are dying because of Covid or are they dying of something else & just happen to test positive?

150496 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to NickR, #1354 of 1807 🔗

What does the y axis mean? Rate of changes of deaths today is 2000%?

150521 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to dickyboy, 1, #1355 of 1807 🔗

Sept 1st was 2 deaths, it was 16 a couple of days before, & 1 one day. It was 40 reported today on the EU dataset, so 40 from 2 gives a relatively high %. I could run it from August the 26th & it would be very different but i’m not trying to massage the numbers but show a calendar period.

150578 ▶▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to NickR, 1, #1356 of 1807 🔗

But what are these numbers compared with all causes deaths and compared to the usual total no of deaths per day. – surely we should be looking at the extent to which these are EXCESS deaths and to how large an extent. People have to die of something – and those who are v old/ vulnerable finally succumb of whatever virus may be going around. But you don’t say a ninety year old person died of a cold.

150529 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to dickyboy, 2, #1357 of 1807 🔗

There you go, from August 27th. Hardly any change at all!!!!! It’s all nonsense.

150508 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to NickR, 2, #1358 of 1807 🔗

‘…. or are they dying of something else & just happen to test positive?’

We have a bit of an idea:

‘The NHS has launched an inquiry after an unknown number of patients died of Covid-19 after becoming infected when they were in hospital being treated for another illness.
The deaths occurred in the week up to 10 September at Tameside general hospital in Greater Manchester, which experienced a sudden and unexplained rise in Covid fatalities that increased its death toll to 18, up from six a week earlier.

The 18 patients who died equated to more than a third of the total 52 coronavirus deaths in all of England’s hospitals, the most recent NHS data released on Tuesday shows. A further two people died of Covid at Tameside hospital over the weekend.

‘….well-placed NHS sources confirmed that some of them were the result of what is known as nosocomial infection – transmission within a hospital. All 18 are thought to have been elderly and to have had one or more underlying illnesses.’


150551 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1359 of 1807 🔗

I love the Grauniads disingenuous headline suggesting that it is the UK’s FIRST fatal nosocomial outbreak…. what a dreadful medium it has become!!!

150552 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1360 of 1807 🔗

The same has happened here in Northern Ireland across two hospitals. They’ve launched an investigation into them.


Interesting to hear that story in Newcastle with similar aspects.

150662 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1361 of 1807 🔗

Happened a lot in March.. but again was this with or from Covid?

150566 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to NickR, 2, #1362 of 1807 🔗

Or are they dying due to not having been treated for other conditions due to the NHS having become a Covid-Only service?

Relatives of anyone who has died due to non-treatment for other illnesses ought to be writing to their MPs, because I doubt MPs have any idea of just how bad the NHS has become..

150569 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to NickR, 2, #1363 of 1807 🔗

Talking of % increases becones meaningless when the actual total NUMBERS are so LOW ( particularly in the context of ALL causes deaths per day) If the number of deaths is one per day , you only need 2 deaths to ‘ double it’ . ‘ double the number of deaths ‘ sounds far more frightening. The MSM are innumerate and never look at the raw numbers.

150609 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to NickR, 1, #1364 of 1807 🔗

To add to that, latest NHS England report showed that today the total number of ‘Covid’ cases in English hospitals increased by 134 going up from 1481 to 1615.
For the last 7 days the total number of Covid cases in English hospitals rose from 988 to 1615, a 63.5% rise.
I am aware that there is some concern as to what is being called a Covid hospital case but nonetheless these are the stats that are used to justify lockdown. Hancock predicted a doubling every week, well it has not done that but it is on the rise.

150515 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1366 of 1807 🔗

Funny, but it’s gone viral because those who think the government haven’t done enough are sharing it.

If the government had been led by Sir Humph and done literally NOTHING back in March, we’d be in a very much happier place today.

150544 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to dickyboy, 4, #1367 of 1807 🔗

If the government had done in March what they have just done now, with maybe kids exempt from the six rule, and with the schools remaining open, I don’t think this forum would even exist and I suspect we would now be in the same situation as Sweden.

150493 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #1368 of 1807 🔗

Has anyone seen this video? Scary stuff. He should go now!


150495 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #1369 of 1807 🔗

Speechless, the man needs locking up in a padded cell. This man is ruining our lives, fucking idiot

150513 ▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to stefarm, 5, #1370 of 1807 🔗

Clearly something not right in the neuron department (or is he just pissed). And he’s running this sh1t show!

150534 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Schrodinger, 5, #1371 of 1807 🔗

He is on something that’s for sure

150507 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #1372 of 1807 🔗

I’d have swore that was one of those deep fake spoofs. Was about to post that, until I saw it’s the Telegraph’s channel.

Next double take was the date. I could understand if he was windbagging that load of horseshit back in January – he’s sat there now, today, pontificating about wind power? We have the biggest man made catastrophe in recent history unfolding – partly of HIS making – and that fat piece of shit is attending climate change conferences?

Why in the name of fuck is he not at his desk every waking hour planning how we’re going to save ourselves from this shit storm? (We know the answer to that).

150541 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to dickyboy, 3, #1373 of 1807 🔗

Because that would make matters considerably worse!!!

150555 ▶▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Will, 2, #1374 of 1807 🔗

I know it would, but a prime minister, in the greatest crisis the country has ever faced – showboating about wind turbines.

I’d be very pleased if he was away from his desk and in a box 6 feet under, with the rest of the cabinet next to him, but this is a proper piss take.

150560 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to dickyboy, 4, #1375 of 1807 🔗

It reveals the real agenda and where his priorities really lie..

150531 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #1376 of 1807 🔗

Huge gusts of wind is right anyway.

150643 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1377 of 1807 🔗

… issuing from … where?

150532 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #1378 of 1807 🔗

Yes he is saying all the right things…just about when he isn’t slurring his words and talking bollocks. Look at his eyes, they are almost crossed…this guy is really insane. Nothing like what you call “Statesmanly”. Wiffly wiffly box tick box tick, going with the global plan…Gold star for Boris….Fully compliant with the master plan.


150542 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #1379 of 1807 🔗

“Corona Virus came out of left field, I mean y’know, some people predicted it like Bill Gates”….Says Boris.

Oops, wasn’t it supposed to be Fergusons that predicted it?….

150557 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1380 of 1807 🔗

One wonders how long he has had contact with Bill G? Were they in fact planning while BJ was supposedly in intensive care?

150563 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1381 of 1807 🔗

I’d been wondering that today too.

150572 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1382 of 1807 🔗

That was Boris trying to minimise the Gates factor in The Corona Project. A minimising disclosure. A standard trick of the liar, here is the thing I want to minimise, its so unimportant, look here it is “gates predicted it” look I said it, it’s nothing, just a small thing…OK?

150545 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #1383 of 1807 🔗

He sounds drunk to me.

150561 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1384 of 1807 🔗

Heavily medicated.

150573 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1385 of 1807 🔗

Is he on drugs or what?

150653 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1386 of 1807 🔗

For whatever reason, that man is not well.

No excuse though. If he’s not fit to lead, he should step down.

150780 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Awkward Git, #1387 of 1807 🔗

Gin apparently.

150628 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1388 of 1807 🔗

Yes. All the things of the green industrial revolution. The 4th industrial revolution . The green revolution. Pretty interesting coming from a lunatic prime ministers mouth isnt it. As though people who are saying someyhing is badly up have a case to be listened to and evaluated.

His delievery was as bad in downing street to the nation. Flailing arms and weird hand gestures overplayed in desperation and looking unhinged for all that.

150754 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #1389 of 1807 🔗

So Boris Johnson wants UK to be ‘Saudi Arabia of wind power’ .
Well he’s got the Saudi Arabia bit right.

Army on the streets, politicisation of police, lockdown, curfew, house arrest, mandatory face coverings, no democracy,

All we need is introduction of beheading and bastinado and he’s there

150773 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Bella Donna, #1390 of 1807 🔗


150776 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1391 of 1807 🔗

Seriously though, someone needs to explain the concepts of energy density and intermittent power to him. Californian style blackouts here we come.

150509 DaveB, replying to DaveB, 25, #1392 of 1807 🔗

Anyone on here connected to tomorrow’s Trafalgar Square event? I think a minute’s silence for the Croydon cop would be appropriate and appreciated.

150528 ▶▶ shorthand, replying to DaveB, 1, #1393 of 1807 🔗

Excellent suggestion

150533 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DaveB, 1, #1394 of 1807 🔗

Good idea..

Btw, anyone heard an update on Kate Shemirani? Has she been released?

150547 ▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Carrie, 3, #1395 of 1807 🔗

I saw a FB post earlier saying that she had been released.

150550 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DaveB, 17, #1396 of 1807 🔗

We’ll try and fit it in between police baton charges.

150927 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to DaveB, #1397 of 1807 🔗

I suspect the senior police will use the Croydon incident to justify more of the same police behaviour this weekend. The media will be cheering on the hero police after today’s incident – of course they are unrelated, but giving a few protestors will go down well with the Sunday papers. We know how it works, everyone should just sit down and not give them any excuses for violence.

150546 Achilles, replying to Achilles, 53, #1398 of 1807 🔗

I actually don’t need any stats or graphs to tell me if there’s a problem. Have any of my family died of Covid? No. Have any of my friends died of Covid? No. Has anyone in my daughters school died of Covid? No. Has anyone in the organisation I work for (over 1,000 people) died of Covid? No. Have any of my neighbours died of Covid? No. Have any of the shopkeepers I know died of Covid? No. Have any of the services or utilities I use been been shut off because of labour shortages due to Covid deaths? No. Are there body bags at the end of my street? No. Are there in memoriam boards in my local town? No.

You see…no problem.

150553 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Achilles, 6, #1399 of 1807 🔗

Exactly – well said! We should ask these questions of all pro-lockdown zealots..

150595 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Carrie, 7, #1400 of 1807 🔗

I honestly think that if there were no deaths or hospitalizations for a month, these moronic Covid zealots would still be demanding tighter and tighter lockdowns.

150655 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Carrie, 1, #1401 of 1807 🔗

Very valid questions.

They will put their fingers in their ears, they have invested too much time and energy on the covid brick road.

MSM and fear is the virus they are not brave enough to step off the ledge.

150554 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Achilles, 3, #1402 of 1807 🔗

Brilliant summation.

150562 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Achilles, 27, #1403 of 1807 🔗

I know one person who had it, and now he’s constantly bleating about “long covid”.

He’s on facebook every day attacking the “deniers”.

He’s also morbidly obese.

He’s also got a dead end middle management job that he hates and for years has wanted to make a living doing his (decidedly average) paintings.

I suspect he’s not that unhappy to be sat at home on full pay in his jimjams every day.

150583 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Achilles, 7, #1404 of 1807 🔗

In all of our family’s and friend’s colleagues, associates and people I have spoken to, I have only heard of one death ( all deaths are tragic) and that was a person in London who was a friend of a friend, so where will be these hundreds of thousands of deaths predicted by Wankcock,brilliantly challenged by Julia Hartley-Brewer on Talk radio?

150620 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 11, #1405 of 1807 🔗

all deaths are tragic”

But … are they??

They affect people; they are sad for those involved or close; they are unwelcome.

But ‘tragic’ …????

No … they’re inevitably part of living.

150644 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to RickH, 2, #1406 of 1807 🔗

You are absolutely right.

150650 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 6, #1407 of 1807 🔗

The absolute stupidest thing I ever heard anybody say was Hancock at a press conference “or course, every death in a care home is a tragedy”.

I mean to diminish nobody’s grief, but what the hell does Hancock think is the reality in care homes every single day of any year?

150616 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Achilles, 16, #1408 of 1807 🔗

My next door neighbour knows somebody who’s had it, his sister’s friends mum’s gran’s daughter had it, she died.

There is that bloke from Somerset who EVERYBODY knows who went to Cheltenham races who was 49 died of it.

Seriously I have been wondering, if this terrible virus has actually killed so many people in a ways that really were terrible, like it was felling young people, children, fit middle aged people in their prime, fit elderly people, in huge numbers as is supposed to be the case.

Why aren’t we seeing virtue signalling candle lit vigils for the fallen, flowers on shrines everywhere, little teddy bears haning from trees for the departed souls of all the dead children? We would expect to see this in this day an age. People love to do things like this and put on SM. Mass weep-ins for all the dead people everywhere, every family touched by a COVID death.

Well we know why we don’t see this.

150617 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1409 of 1807 🔗

And why are undertakers saying things have been very quiet for them?

150622 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 4, #1410 of 1807 🔗

People are usually DYING to get into the undertakens

150631 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 4, #1411 of 1807 🔗

Things are REALLY bad when a recession affects undertakers!

150753 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, #1412 of 1807 🔗

Lol exactly

150924 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Carrie, 3, #1413 of 1807 🔗

In Germany undertakers are on furlough and are going bankrupt.

150636 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 14, #1414 of 1807 🔗

And a work colleague’s aunt knows a relative of her neighbour, some cousin or other thirty-three times removed, who was still running marathons at age 109, fit as a fiddle, no underlying conditions since his heart triple by-pass and kidney transplant, who died from it. Honest injun…

150695 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1415 of 1807 🔗

I believe you.

150703 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1416 of 1807 🔗

So do thousands of bedwetters… lol

150660 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1417 of 1807 🔗

True, bit like the bikes painted white at road junctions (fucking hate them).

150825 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stefarm, #1418 of 1807 🔗

just like that

150826 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, #1419 of 1807 🔗

Why risk life an limb painting an outline of a bike on the road? These people are mental.

150694 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Two-Six, 2, #1420 of 1807 🔗

Started with Diana.

150747 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #1421 of 1807 🔗

… or was that weird psychotic mass episode just a symptom?

150827 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Fingerache Philip., #1422 of 1807 🔗

Just like that

150647 ▶▶ matt, replying to Achilles, 2, #1423 of 1807 🔗

I’ll add to this. Every day I speak to colleagues and clients all over the world, including in places like North Italy, Brazil, (Sweden), Belgium, Washington State, New York State, Spain, Peru, Russia that apparently had it really badly.

Nothing. Almost* none of them have had it all year. None of them seem to know anyone who has died from it. I’ve not once had a “I am on compassionate leave because my granny died” out of office reply

*admittedly, my immediate boss’s wife had a positive test on Wednesday and he was going for a test this morning.

150684 ▶▶ Suzyv, replying to Achilles, 5, #1424 of 1807 🔗

Thats because there never really was a Covid crisis and it was most likely a bad seasonal flu which was over months ago. Every year we all know plenty of people who have had a rotten cold or dose of the flu (and this may include ourselves). And you often hear people you know saying they haven’t been well for weeks since that flu or cold (lingering symptoms that they are now pushing with Covid). But as you say and also many others, you don’t know anyone who has had Covid or been seriously ill from it if they had it…. Hmm

150700 ▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Achilles, #1425 of 1807 🔗

Well said!

150752 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Achilles, 2, #1426 of 1807 🔗

You can’t hide a pandemic.

Especially from undertakers. (Who are all extremely unbusy atm apparently)

150784 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Achilles, #1427 of 1807 🔗

You could also ask if you have not seen anyone die, have you seen anyone become so severely ill they needed medical treatment or at least couldn’t leave the house. Have you noticed people having to to take time off work due to illness and organizations becoming short staffed.

150865 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to ianric, 1, #1428 of 1807 🔗

On the contrary, the sick absence rates in my organisation have never been lower since home working began in March!

150862 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Achilles, 2, #1429 of 1807 🔗

An ex colleague of mine, a guy in his 50s died. He was carrying a few extra pounds but not obese and as far as I know had no underlying health issues. He died near the start of the pandemic when they used ventilators on Covid patients. I believe that it was the treatment that killed him and not the virus itself as it was organ failure that did for him. ☹️ Had he taken ill a couple of months later, he’d likely still be here.

150558 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1430 of 1807 🔗

Spotted on United Rebels:

So just picked up my daughter and she has informed me that she got a letter today saying Oxford University are doing a study and selected households will receive £50 each for doing a covid test and £25 each test after that!!!! comment image

150604 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1431 of 1807 🔗

Is your daughter a uni student?

I am wondering whether they will in fact offer this to all uni students if they drop out? They might well get a lot of takers if students will get no compensation for fees paid if they drop out.

It could even be a sneaky government tactic to harvest the DNA of all uni students…

150772 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Cheezilla, #1432 of 1807 🔗

Yep, some of our elderly neighbours are doing that deal and love it. Tried to explain the reasons why it may not the best decision that they’ve made but got absolutely nowhere …

150571 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1433 of 1807 🔗

Central news saying that the Army (about 100) will be on these streets of Birmingham within days to do door-to-door covid testing in the worst areas to “help” the council.

Right on time.

150586 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1434 of 1807 🔗

No way. Surely thats it now.

150601 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Awkward Git, #1435 of 1807 🔗

They’ve already been helping out in testing stations around the country. I’ll never forget photos of big blokes reaching through car windows in berets and uniforms with those flimsy plastic pinnies blowing in the wind bless them.

150614 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to bluemoon, 6, #1436 of 1807 🔗

Difference between you going to them voluntarily and them banging on your door.

First step of normalising you seeing the military banging on doors eventually leading to them dragging you out if you oppose.

150632 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1437 of 1807 🔗

Oops missed the door to door thing. Crikey. Turn off the music, turn off the lights, draw the curtains.

150685 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1438 of 1807 🔗

Do we think that this will be timed to start *after* they have got the extension of the coronavirus act through?

Do we think that they will lockdown London (maybe after tomorrow’s demo, and will blame the lockdown on that), thereby making all MPs work from home, preventing any Parliamentary debate regarding the extension of the coronavirus act, much less a vote on the Brady amendment…

I would add that they would positively revel in blaming a London lockdown on our protest..

150708 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, #1439 of 1807 🔗

I think the next step in the draconian measures are coming unless something changes soon.

150749 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1440 of 1807 🔗

Plus there’s a difference between some council dolt knocking on your door and a member of the armed forces.

Way to intimidate people to take a test – send a uniform who they fear and/or trust.

150612 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1441 of 1807 🔗

Will we see the first forced removal from their homes of people who refuse door to door testing, on the suspicion that they may have Covid, as allowed for under the coronavirus act?

It would be forced taking of people’s DNA…

150579 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 7, #1442 of 1807 🔗

Is this legal?
masks are mandated for non clinical staff at all sites. This covers possible exemptions. “We understand that wearing a face covering/mask may be difficult for some people due to underlying health conditions. These will be considered by line managers on a case by case basis. Managers should refer individuals to Dr Aqib Bhatti (Clinical Director, Occupational Health Lead) should the staff member not wish to disclose information to their manager or if further clarity on exemption is required.” Surely they have to take the person’s word and cannot refuse.

150593 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to p02099003, 4, #1443 of 1807 🔗


150618 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to p02099003, 10, #1444 of 1807 🔗

Back in August I asked the BMA this:

  • So far the Government has released no scientific evidence to support the mask/face coverings policy nor published a risk assessment for this so again what science does the BMA have but not released that proves mask and face coverings are an effective mitigation?
  • Please explain why countries that have been wearing masks for longer than the UK and in more places than the UK still have rising numbers of “positive tests”. Surely if masks worked as you claim then cases should drop to zero and stay there within weeks of the commencement of general mask wearing?
  • Has the BMA performed a full risk assessment on the wearing of face coverings in the general population using the above points as part of the risks and published and peer-reviewed studies as evidnece tehir mitigation are valid and will reduce the risks to ALARP?
  • If so can you please provide a copy?

In addition to this I am struggling to understand why GP surgeries, dentists and hospitals are insisting on face coverings to be worn on their premises under your seeming authority or recommendation when the list of premises that remain excluded under the relevant legislation and where face coverings are not required are :

  • Premises (other than registered pharmacies) providing wholly or mainly medical or dental services , audiology services, chiropody, chiropractic, osteopathic, optometry or other medical services including services relating to mental health.

I look forward to your reply. I am positive it will be most enlightening.

They never answered.

150625 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1445 of 1807 🔗

Sounds about right

150690 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1446 of 1807 🔗

They are flying by the seats of their panrs.
All oft them.
The hardline Bavarian government was asked recently to provide the documents their decisions are based upon.
Their official reply was that no such documents exist.
A short rise of the eyebrows by some sheep, then back to supporting a more strict mask mandate…

150592 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #1447 of 1807 🔗

FFS…Here we go….


Good old Edinburgh Live, the pro Covid shit stirring scum rag that it is.

150598 ▶▶ Basics, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #1448 of 1807 🔗

Given up linking to it. Won’t give them clicks.

150663 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 1, #1449 of 1807 🔗

you tell him or shall i?

150788 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, #1450 of 1807 🔗

No need. Once a day is good enough!

150597 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1451 of 1807 🔗

Mahyar Tousi – youtube.
Is reporting the pro scrutiny conservative rebellion has the numbers.
He also does a mild job of wording his critism too. He has had a quite serious health scare this week which is affecting his usual chirpy delivery.
A sign of the irreversable change in the weather. We are winning little by little.

150610 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 6, #1452 of 1807 🔗

A question: London apparently on threat of lockdown..

Is this a secret government strategy to make MPs work from home again and thereby minimise/prevent proper debate of the renewal of the coronavirus act, including the Brady amendment?

Will they just extend it with the excuse that it was an emergency situation?

Apologies for the cynicism, but I would put nothing past them now…

150666 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Carrie, 2, #1453 of 1807 🔗

Nor would I.

150678 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, 9, #1454 of 1807 🔗

I just read this on Twitter, written by a Swede who has been following the British press:

Only a sucker would fall for the idea that the next lockdown will be a mere ‘circuit breaker’ lasting a fortnight. Supporters of lockdown are adept at switching between cases & deaths depending on which is rising.’

Says it all really..

150709 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 1, #1455 of 1807 🔗

There are measure in place to allow remote parliamentary voting. There have to be because of the limit to the numbers allowed in the chamber. The Speaker was involved in these measures and is absolutely behind them (and is rapidly losing his patience). If the government were to use a local/national lockdown or any apparent crisis to avoid a parliamentary debate or vote, that would be just about the quickest way I can think of to prompt a constitutional crisis. They may want to do it, but I just don’t think they’re on firm enough ground to get away with it.

150736 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, #1456 of 1807 🔗

Your last point reminds me of someone saying that “a million cuts will kill the beast”.

150599 THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 3, #1457 of 1807 🔗





Your letters to us also!



150649 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 2, #1458 of 1807 🔗

Nothing new here, this is the 17th century all over again. Same species, a new religion, a new king, science taken care of by the cardinals. We´ll burn Bruno at the stakes again.

150657 ▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to BJJ, 2, #1459 of 1807 🔗

Pitchforks at dawn!

150686 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, 1, #1460 of 1807 🔗

Very much enjoyed. Keep the sanity coming.

151059 ▶▶▶ THE REAL NORMAL PODCAST, replying to dickyboy, #1461 of 1807 🔗

Cheers Dicky. Glad you liked it!

150607 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1462 of 1807 🔗


Never understood where Karl Friston stands. He is a member of the obscure independent Sage,said something sensible many months ago about immunity,but now in this letter to BMJ says a third position in the debate between lockdown and herd immunity. Intelligent effective contact tracing which need only consist of 25 % of cases to be effective but we have only 1-2 weeks to implement this measure.

150615 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1463 of 1807 🔗

I agree with you, swedenborg.

I was really impressed with the sanity of Karl Friston’s initial analysis of the variables involved in cross-country differences, and his ‘dark matter’ comments. They made complete sense in contrast to the mickey-mouse analyses that were the norm.

But – since then ….???

150619 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 24, #1464 of 1807 🔗

Otley—-Friday afternoon—good news!

I thought I would go into town to check out the ‘mask situation’ in numerous shops following on from yesterday’s supposed changes and some disappointing experiences posted on this site.

Pleased to say that nothing seems to have changed in this Yorkshire market town.

I visited, Asda, Waitrose, Sainsbury’s, and Yorkshire Trading and bought sod all in any of them—-this was an exercise purely to test the waters to my maskless countenance. As per my previous shopping forays; no stares, no avoidance, no questioning, nothing and NONE of the aforementioned had any door persons scrutinising entry. I just swanned in swanned about and went to the loo in Sainsbury’s and Waitrose. I’m beginning to think that in Otley at least, while most people are masked up in shops nobody really cares if you’re not.

I walked past the library and saw a lady, with mask, seated just inside whose job it was to ‘greet’ visitors. I stopped, smiled and asked her how long she had been sitting there ‘All day’ was her reply. ‘With that mask?’ I enquired. ‘Yes, I’m really fed up with it, until yesterday we could wear visors but now it has to be masks’. I politely informed her that I had an exemption—not that she had asked—and told her that there were many reasons for exemption and whilst she understood, in her case she didn’t want to ‘rock the boat’. How many people have this attitude I wonder?

All this talk about aggression, marshals, jumped up door people and nasty snitches doesn’t seem to have reached Otley yet—at least in my experience. And I can’t remember the last time I saw a police officer about town. My discomfort isn’t with shops and trades people, it lies with some of my elderly neighbours who are so frightened, it beggars belief and to whom my sentiments are pity and sadness rather than anger.

150623 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #1465 of 1807 🔗

‘Didn’t want to rock the boat’ = scared of losing her job…

150627 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Harry hopkins, 9, #1466 of 1807 🔗

I am sure that “not wanting to rock the boat” accounts for mask wearing in about 80% of cases, the other 20% being the zealots or the truly frightened.

Pleased to hear you had a nice afternoon – but welcome to local lockdown!

150675 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Now More Than Ever, 37, #1467 of 1807 🔗

Yet another load of abuse on my train home today for not wearing a mask, even though I am clearly displaying sunflower lanyard and network rail card. Yes Im getting scared now and wear it on every journey, but it seems no-one knows about exemptions.
Stares for 30 minutes of the journey from a fat couple, peering through between the seats (Worry about your obesity rather than Covid you stupid fucking cunt) before the couple calling me a prick as they get off the train and taking my picture as they walk past my window.
Gave them the card and my middle finger.

To step back a few days, when I had initially asked for said lanyard set, ticket office said they needed to see medical documentation to give one.
Needless to say that guy got both barrels.

Trains are practically empty too, yet people still being their self righteous self.

Just shot a lenghty email to Network Rail about lack of signage and awareness.

Fucking RAGING right now.

150682 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Templeton, 7, #1468 of 1807 🔗

Exactly what the government intended…also remember Cressida Dick’s incitement.

150705 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Templeton, 5, #1469 of 1807 🔗

You get my support, well done.

Know exactly how you feel, anger is building quickly in my house about all this shit.

Exactly as planned and more Nazi like every day.

150724 ▶▶▶▶ JPF, replying to Templeton, 4, #1470 of 1807 🔗

Re the mask wearers on the train giving you brief, just tell them they’re gullible cowards, if you think you can get away with it.

150726 ▶▶▶▶▶ JPF, replying to JPF, 1, #1471 of 1807 🔗


150727 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Templeton, 13, #1472 of 1807 🔗

You have twenty times more character, courage and steadfastness than all those cowards put together. In times like this it’s never easy doing the right thing but you are doing it in spades—well done for sticking to your principles. When you look at yourself in the mirror—-feel proud!

150729 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #1473 of 1807 🔗

And I should add—-‘unto thine own self be true’. One of the hardest things to live up to.

150741 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Templeton, 2, #1474 of 1807 🔗

You’re rage is justified in the face of ignorant fodder for fascists.

150874 ▶▶▶▶ John Galt, replying to Templeton, #1475 of 1807 🔗

People like you are how change happens. Don’t lose faith, friend.

150683 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1476 of 1807 🔗

“…she didn’t want to ‘rock the boat’. How many people have this attitude I wonder?”

A hell of a lot would be my guess.

150822 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1477 of 1807 🔗

Never mind rocking the boat, I want to sink it, preferably with Johnson and the rest inside.

151012 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to Edward, 2, #1478 of 1807 🔗

Thank you everyone, really appreciate the support.

Have a good weekend

150656 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 7, #1479 of 1807 🔗

Not sure if it has been posted before.

Van Morrison singing ‘Born to be Free’

“The new normal is not normal / It’s no kind of normal at all / Everyone seemed to have amnesia just trying to remember the Berlin Wall.”

“But it’s not for the benefit of you and me”


150659 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Schrodinger, 3, #1480 of 1807 🔗

not a bad tune

150668 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Schrodinger, 2, #1481 of 1807 🔗

I just found this (the picture), which made me smile: https://twitter.com/coco07751613/status/1309376664841981953

150665 Suzyv, 7, #1482 of 1807 🔗

Apology if already posted but here is Dolores Cahill from just a few days ago (if you can still access it). Well worth a listen to, even if just the first 15 mins. She talks about simple steps to prevent being ill and it sounds like this so called crisis was all over months ago. All these students having to self isolate right now- most likely for a cold or flu which you expect during Freshers week.


150669 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 21, #1483 of 1807 🔗

Sent to the car dealership head office – I deliberately did not give full facts on some points but want them to contact me and ask me “what do you mean here”:

Part 1

“I visited one of your dealerships today, I won’t say which one but I have been a customer there long before they became part of the Hatfield’s Group and have always enjoyed visiting and have a good relationship with nearly all the staff in the dealership over the many years we have known each other.

Today’s visit was dystopian to say the least, the receptionists unwelcoming and the staff generally terrified and totally uninformed about the real and actual dangers of covid-19 and as both my wife and I are exempt from wearing masks we felt on entering the building we were lepers and should be carrying a bell and saying “unclean”.

Complete change from when we visited there in March 2020 at the height of the supposed pandemic when everyone was upbeat about being back at work and were raring to go and no masks in sight.

Now it seemed everyone was despondent and scared to death of a virus that is basically gone from the population due to the incessant Government propaganda blitz on the MSM and which is now affecting them psychologically and them having no facts from the companies they work for who are acting as Government enforcers.

We were challenged twice about not wearing a face covering, once on arrival and once about 25 minutes later.

This meant that your staff broke the law twice.

The first time was short and at the reception desk – “where’s your mask?”. Our reply “exempt”.

2nd time was a bit more in-depth and we suspect it was initiated by a member of staff not happy with our maskless status and as I have dealt with the senior staff member who was “assigned” to speak to me many times over many years and have a good working relationship with him I took the time to ask him what did he actually know about the face coverings legislation (nothing) and the exemptions (nothing again), did he know who had the legal authority to challenge a person not wearing a face covering (no) and what you, as a company, had told him about the legislation (yet again nothing) so I explained everything to him and advised him to become familiar with the legislation before leaving himself or another member of staff and the company facing a court appearance and substantial fines.

I have attached an exemptions toolkit from the laworfiction.com website that sets out the actual law on face covering exemptions – which also apply to staff as well as customers if they meet the criteria for being exempt – and that succinctly and clearly explains who can challenge a person not wearing face covering, what they are legally required to answer, how the challenged person can progress the challenge to court and the fines to businesses and persons who do the challenging.

I would like to think that you will pass this information on to all your staff in all your dealerships as it may save your company and individual members of staff from a court appearance, liability for costs and large monetary penalties both corporate and personal in the future.

The internet link:


This is also a good breakdown of the changed face covering legislation as came into force on the 24th September 2020 which you will find very helpful on what your employees and yourselves should do and are not required to do under the legislation and which is different to what I observed today in your dealership:


I also recommend that on every single poster or notice you have in your dealerships stating “masks required” you add in a phrase or addendum about their being legal exemptions in the relevant legislation and those who meet these exemptions are not required to wear a mask.

During this discussion with the senior staff member I found out he knew very little about covid-19 and he entertained many fallacies perpetrated by Government, social media and the MSM so I took the time to reassure him that “the virus” is not as dangerous as he thinks.

All other members of staff were similarly ignorant and they need reassurance and facts from yourselves to counteract the fear-mongering on MSM and social media and this way it may make visiting your dealerships a lot more normal.

150670 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #1484 of 1807 🔗

Part 2 – sometimes 5000 characters not enough:

I think that a well researched factsheet full of verifiable links and facts from yourselves and distributed to all staff in all dealerships would go a long way to reassuring your staff and bring the dealership back to a pleasant place to visit and will also make available to the staff enough information at their fingertips to be able to reassure any customers who feel apprehensive or uncomfortable during their visit.

Some information that would be very helpful in a fact sheet would be but not limited to:

  • the actual numbers of healthy people without co-morbidities that died
  • the survival rates of the various age groups
  • the average age of those who died
  • the percentage of deaths that occurred in hospitals and care homes rather than in the general public at large
  • the numbers and graphs that do not show a “2nd wave”
  • explanation of why a “positive” test result does not mean a ”case” and means zero medically – I have this on a FOI request answer, very interesting and informative
  • the uselessness of PCR tests as a diagnostic tool  – I have this on a FOI request answer, very interesting and informative
  • the uselessness of masks as protection against bacteria and viruses
  • CMO Whitty’s quote before the televised Parliamentary Select Committee hearing on 21st July 2020 that meant lockdowns were not required -i have an officially made video clip available
  • social distancing has never been law in England is not enforceable and when challenged on the science behind it the person responsible, Prof Robert Dingwall, said “it was conjured up out of nowhere”.

This last point also leads onto why the legislation had to be changed on face coverings.

Prior to the 24th September 2020 if a company or business wanted to introduce face coverings for staff they had to write a risk assessment that justified them as a mitigation against the transmission of a virus and to be used as a mitigation there must scientific or other evidence that proves the mitigation works.

The problem is that the Government can only supply 1 piece of evidence to back-up and justify their stance on face coverings and this study is not conclusive to say the least so it cannot be used to justify a mitigation in a formal risk assessment but there are many, many independent studies and research that has been carried out all the way back to 1980 or even earlier that prove that masks do not work as protection as the Government claims, I received 42 links yesterday all verifiable. There are also many high profile and well respected virologists and epidemiologists stating that as protection masks and face coverings are not much better than useless and cause lots of problems for the wearers.

This leads on to my next point.

During the chat with the senior staff member I asked how much guidance or information he had received from the company about the correct way to wear a mask/face covering, what to do, what to avoid doing, the disposal of the used masks/face coverings and if he knew when it changed from possible contaminated waste to definitely contaminated medical waste requiring disposal as per COSHH regulations, had they received the correct type of mask, when it was given to them did the company state it was the correct PPE for virus protection or was it just a “face covering” (big difference legally), had they seen the Government recommendations on the correct way to wear a mask/face covering, do they have soap and hot water available to wash hands properly (the recommended and best cleanser, preferable to hand sanitisers and better for the skin), the signs to be aware of that means the mask/face covering was causing medical/physiological/psychological problems of which there are quite a few some of which can be fatal if not recognised and left untreated could be fatal.

It is just not as simple as telling staff “wear a mask because the law says so” as the company is still liable under HSE legislation for any problems the mask/face covering cause and which your staff will have to be made aware of as some of them are very serious and can lead to death.

I recommend that your company researches mask/face covering wearing, look at the Government guidance on the correct use of them, the problems both physical and mental that they cause, the correct way to dispose of waste and so on and disseminate this information to all staff and dealerships before a serious medical problem happens to one or more staff or your waste disposal contractor raises issues.

Using “I was just following orders” (the Nuremberg Defence) is not an acceptable defence in a court of law and under Health and Safety legislation the company is still liable for any incidents or problems that arise even if they are following the law.

Your staff also showed me a KN95 mask they had been issued.

150671 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 19, #1485 of 1807 🔗

Part 3:

These need to be checked that they are certified and correct because there has been a worldwide recall on billions of Chinese made KN95 masks recently as the manufacturers falsified the paperwork approving them to issue the CE and other required certification for PPE. Links here:



I can assist you gathering and correlating any information if you require assistance.

I also have FOI request answers available that back-up some of the claims I have stated above in addition to what is publicly available.

If you require further information then please do not hesitate to contact me.

That’s it finished – will let you know if I get an answer.

150688 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, 15, #1486 of 1807 🔗

This may sound odd, AG, but you remind me of my dad. This tireless pursuit is exactly the way he would have gone about these things. Get the bit between your teeth and then irritate the hell out of everyone on the road to getting what you want. Cantankerous old blighter (him, not you. Or, at least, him).

Well done and please keep going.

150699 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to matt, 11, #1487 of 1807 🔗

Wife has called me worse.

I amy be senior at work but still have a problem with being railroaded into doing something I know is wrong. Stood my ground against what waste the time the world’s biggest commodity traders and won being a cantankerous old blighter

The staff at the dealership do not deserve to be treated like this (nor anyone else) and at least when I left earlier they were a lot more reassured that someone could give them facts and had knowledge of what was going on, their rights, the company’s responsibilities and so on.

Also gives me something to do as getting bored and keeps me amused, may even have to get a part-time job to stay out they way of the wife as not a lot of gardening left to do and house been redecorated fully.

150719 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1488 of 1807 🔗

Would have been exactly his attitude. Bored. Let’s cause some trouble with righteous anger.

150717 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 2, #1489 of 1807 🔗

My mum was the same. Never gave in till she got a full spology.

150712 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1490 of 1807 🔗

As per German workplace laws, FFP2 and N95 masks may only be worn 75 minutes, followed by a 30 minute maskless pause.
But hey, who cares about that anymore…

150711 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1491 of 1807 🔗

Excellent as usual AG,the car dealerships near me all have impolite (in my eyes anyway) ‘facemasks must be worn’ signs on the doors and all over the showrooms,with no mention of exemptions at all.It seems quite rare to find any of this type of signage anywhere that actually uses please or thankyou.
One dealership also states,’social distancing procedures strictly enforced’,I’m tempted to go in and see what their definition of strict entails.

150714 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1492 of 1807 🔗

Very good, but I don’t think you meant March at the height of the supposed pandemic, shops were allowed to reopen in June.

151349 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to MizakeTheMizan, #1493 of 1807 🔗

I did mean March, took the wife’s car for a service and MOT a step car tax website wouldn’t let me tax the car without a new MOT.

150677 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 22, #1494 of 1807 🔗

For many years I have thought my Nokia 3310 was a triumph of design but never have I appreciated how much until some arse asked me to “scan” (whatever that means) my phone for something called “Track and Trace.”

Ahh the satisfaction. Now for a game of Snake.

150746 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 5, #1495 of 1807 🔗

Great idea! Always carry a dummy phone for scanning.

150767 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to WhyNow, 6, #1496 of 1807 🔗

Honestly, it doesn’t matter how sophisticated your phone is. Unless the staff are hovering over your shoulder, watching what you’re doing, just wave your phone over the QR code and then pretend to fiddle with it for a bit and then tell them you’ve done it (if they’re still paying attention at that point). If the staff are hovering over your shoulder watching, then ask them to F off. They have no way of knowing whether you’ve registered at all or registered with the right details. If they do have a way of knowing, then there’s a serious breach of GDPR regs going on. If they insist on any kind of proof, walk out and go elsewhere.

150696 Basics, replying to Basics, 19, #1497 of 1807 🔗

Because these words sum up the situation perfectly. From twitter.

So let me get this straight.. I’ve just paid £15,000 to move to a new city to study an MA which has now been moved online, and now a local lockdown means i can’t meet friends, can’t go home and can’t see my boyfriend

150720 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 10, #1498 of 1807 🔗

Or won’t?
Or will, and fuck them?

150697 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #1499 of 1807 🔗

These CEBM conclusions are particularly relevant right now:

Conclusion: symptoms and signs of Covid19 are necessary to support the claim that the subject is or can be infectious. But calling PCR positives “cases” does not specify whether the persons have carried the virus for long or whether it is “active”. This could lead to the finding of many “cases” as a function of the number of PCR tests conducted. For example, if 20% of a population are PCR positive, the number of PCR positives will depend on the size of the sample. This means that the more PCR test are carried out the larger the fraction of the population that is confirmed but this might not speak of changes in the population. That is, it is possible that the population was infected already long before deciding to test and PCR positives would therefore not speak of “an advancing pandemic”

‘…. PCR positives simply measure the number of PCR tests taken on a given day, i.e. they might be somewhat proportional to the number of PCR taken on a given day, and positives might or might not be “infectious” positives. Ultimately, this means PCR positives cannot be used to tell if the pandemic is advancing if for that we understand that deaths are to increase or decrease. This agrees with the interpretation of CEBM above.
Finally, we want to point out that the same can be said for all countries we have examined, i.e. other than Spain. For example, in the months of July to September positive cases in Europe are said to have risen, but we find no evidence of excess deaths in the countries in Europe reported by euromomo.eu (Figure 10). We believe the rise in deaths toward August and September corresponds to the heat wave. It seems like this year the heat wave has been displaced toward August and September, rather than July and August as in previous years, in some European countries.’


150756 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Tim Bidie, #1500 of 1807 🔗

Very interesting article, highly recommended. Spanish data is very difficult. Madrid have the highest PCR pos and deaths and 40 % occupation ICU beds and 25% of all hospital beds C-19.They have also almost 20% pos PCR+ of tests taken. But at the same time only 10 admitted C-19 cases to ICU in Madrid during last 7 days. So lots of cases but not so many symptomatic, hospitalizations high but at the same time high discharge of C-19 patients . Madrid might have peaked already.

150707 swedenborg, 1, #1501 of 1807 🔗


The Chinese whistle blower is a hoax according to this thread

 “The unsubstantiated “Chinese bioweapon” and “ultra-deadly virus” narratives, which may have been originally sourced to Dr. Yan (given Bannon’s claim that she was communicating this information as far back as mid January ), were advanced by the Guo-backed War Room show and several other media venues in order to push for robust, indefinite, destructive lockdowns of the United States, in order to “protect” Americans from the alleged coronavirus bioweapon.”

150710 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1502 of 1807 🔗

Footage has come to light of Whitty and Vallance drawing up their graph in preparation for the UK Gov press conference they gave on Monday.


150721 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1503 of 1807 🔗

That brings back memories – though that episode is older than me (just!)

150765 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 1, #1504 of 1807 🔗

All i can say is “Oh Flobadob” i guess Handjob is “Little weed”

150715 Cheezilla, #1505 of 1807 🔗
150716 guy153, replying to guy153, #1506 of 1807 🔗

Some interesting ideas about the situation from Uncle Bumblefuck:


Uncle B. is perhaps an acquired taste but he’s a smart guy.

150731 ▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to guy153, 1, #1507 of 1807 🔗

Ah! Another AvE fan? I love his stuff

150728 Lydia, replying to Lydia, 6, #1508 of 1807 🔗

Just received this email from my MP. I sent him an email on Wednesday regarding repealing the Coronavirus act – no reply. This, I guess is a generic email to everyone.

150748 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Lydia, 16, #1509 of 1807 🔗

I have just come a 40 minute call with my MP – thank you to fellow sceptics for the key points you helped me with a couple of days ago. It would appears things definitely moving behind the scenes – please keep e-mailing them the messages are starting to get through. Am not sure that many of them understand the issues around the PCR test in the right levels of details – perhaps a targeted approach this weekend from everyone here just one that point might work. Guess we will see what happens over week but think they know Alexander Johnson is done just how long it takes.

Long discussion – but clear Monday’s show and tell double act with made up maths did damage.

I feel a bit more hopeful in this sea of madness.

150937 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Richard, #1510 of 1807 🔗

Well done, Richard. Thanks for putting in all that work. Single-handily it looks like you’ve converted one MP to our views. Like you say, if we all can convince just our own MP then change will come, and perhaps rapidly. Well done.

150908 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lydia, 1, #1511 of 1807 🔗

Good on him!

151002 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lydia, #1512 of 1807 🔗

Hurrah! An MP seemingly interested in hearing his constituents’ views!

150730 PhilipF, replying to PhilipF, 32, #1513 of 1807